
oldsmobile-digest         Wednesday, 27 March 1996      Volume 01 : Number 129


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 00:02:21 -0400
Subject: Fwd: Vista Cruiser operation questions 

In a message dated 96-03-24 18:17:48 EST, Bob0Barry@aol.com writes:

>Hmmm, need any parts...? I'm willing to sacrifice the VC for a greater good
>(and a CS convert is much greater than a VC)
>
>

Don't suppose that VC has a 4-way power bench seat?

Paul
- ---------------------
Forwarded message:
From:	Bob0Barry@aol.com
Sender:	oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Reply-to:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
To:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Date: 96-03-24 18:17:48 EST

In a message dated 96-03-24 15:21:03 EST, you write:

>
>You got questions?  We got answers!
>
>1)  You're right, those levers are to *lower* the seat from the raised
>position.  To lower your 2nd seat, push down on the forward edge of the
[snip of some excellent advice; probably obvious once you've done it]
>2) With the outside key - turning to the clockwise (using the ignition key)
>should lower the window, counterclockwise should raise it.  Or, with the
>ignition to the on position, use the dash switch (you didn't mention this).

Hmmm, when I turn the key, I hear a light "thunk" like a solenoid is working
something, but no motion. Perhaps a gallon of WD-40 down past the
weatherstripping might get things going...

> The window should be down before the tailgate is opened. but I don't think
>the tailgate police are going to come after you if it's not.  All electric
>windows have a switch which prevents movement of the window unless the
>tailgate is fully closed.  Is it?  If it is, then it sounds like you have an
>electrical problem somewhere (or maybe a seized motor).  The engineers at
>Oldsmoble probably designed that tailgate so that it couldn't be worked on
>unless it's in the down position, kind of a Catch 22.  Sounds like a
headache
>to me.  You need to fix the window to put the gate down, but you have to put
>the gate down to fix the window.

Yeah, no fun. I undid a couple screws on the inside of the back panel, hoping
that they released some access panel or something; finally I got to thinking
the moldy vinyl panel was covering it, so I ripped that off-no access panel.
:(

>Most of the above is paraphased from my '72 owner's manual.  Sounds like an
>awful lot of trouble for a parts car.  That is what it still is, right?

Well, I always have mixed feelings about this process: on the one hand, I
need the parts it has and the money that other parts would bring, but on the
other hand, a Vista Cruiser wagon would make a pretty cool family car (my
wife was complaining about how impractical our current 2-door is) with *lots*
of luggage space. But this car seems to be so far gone (rust around every
window, and it has *lots* of those!), and selling off things like the brakes
and doors might impair its driveability.

Plus, if I have the shell towed off for crushing, that's one less "classic"
Olds on the road for someone else to restore...

Come on people, convince me that I should just set a date to have it towed
off, pull and sell what I can before then, and be done with it! Otherwise, I
might start cleaning the interior, seeing if I can get some other heads to go
on the 350, patching up the rust, etc...

Boy I need help. If someone wanted that VC that Greg posted about seeing,
this would make a decent parts car (good glass, bad metal, some chrome,
excellent frame).

>Paul Hartlieb
>
>'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible
  ^^
Hmmm, need any parts...? I'm willing to sacrifice the VC for a greater good
(and a CS convert is much greater than a VC)

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 00:02:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds AM/FM flippin' dial radio 

Hey Gregg

I'm in Southeastern PA (Lebanon area) - would be interested in where that
boneyard is at -- always looking for new ones.  One of the cars is always
needing something - even if it doesn't know it yet.  How 'bout sharing your
secret.  Is he open to the public?

Paul Hartlieb

'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe

P.S. I'll let the Toros alone!

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 00:02:34 -0400
Subject: Re: 1986 OLDS 442 

I wanted a louder sound on my '72 Cutlass Supreme about 2 years ago, but
didn't want to go the glass pack route.  Went to the local auto parts store
and they sold me a pair of Dynomax Super Turbo Mufflers and related adapters
and they fit right on without a fight.  Sound great too.  They bark on
acceleration and rumble real nice @ cruising speed, but not too loud that you
can't talk or listen to the radio.  One of my better investments.  My buddy
put blue glass packs on his '72 Cutlass S and they're way too loud.  Bad
thing about the S/T's is that they don't have a lifetime warranty.  I think
they actually cost less than the standard Walkers would have.

------------------------------

From: "Dink" <heinle@jake.udayton.edu>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 00:27:11 -0400
Subject: caddy motor for sale

anybody want a Caddy 472 and trans?  Less than 42k miles, can hear 
run.  price is $475.  I found this in the local(Dayton, Ohio) parts trader.
Sounds pretty good to me. phone# is (513)436-3944

disclaimer : don't know em, blah blah

Dink
80 Delta 88 Royale

{
Dink           Dayton, Ohio
http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
Computer Information Systems Major @ UD
}

------------------------------

From: "Dink" <heinle@jake.udayton.edu>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 00:33:09 -0400
Subject: more engines for sale

I just noticed 5 Olds 350 rockets for sale in the paper. Anywhere 
from $275 -$350 some with tranny's too. also 2 455's one for $150 
with tranny and another for $375.  Also if anybody wants a TPI setup 
somebody's selling a 305 with tpi intake and the computer and all for 
$800.  If anybody's interested e-mail me and i'll give you the 
details.

hope this helps somebody!

Dink
80 Delta 88 Royale

{
Dink           Dayton, Ohio
http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
Computer Information Systems Major @ UD
}

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 00:45:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Service manuals

> >     "Let he who is without SBC cast the first stone..."
> 
> Counts me out; I have exactly ONE SBC engine- a '68 350-4V with TH400 short
> shaft. Someday I expect to find a use for it.
> 

	Actually, when I wrote that I temporarly (intentionally?) forgot 
that I have a Chubby 350 out in my grammas garage that I'm currently 
trying to get rid of.  It's a smogger '76 with 882 heads, and a 72 
non-egr Q-Jet intake.  It was actually sitting in the trunk of my '60 
when I bought it (the former owner wanted to put the 350 in his truck, 
but never got around to it).  So far a few nibbles, but now bites.  :(  
	Who knows, if I can't sell it, maybe I'll find a use for it someday.

		Scott
	1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98  

------------------------------

From: "Dink" <heinle@jake.udayton.edu>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 00:48:04 -0400
Subject: misc Olds parts for sale

Some people might hate me by now but i just noticed a set of 15 x 7 
Olds rallye's for $100.  Says centers and rings included. 

also a set of hooker headers for 79-87 cutlasses $150 (513)374-0746
doesn't say what size there for, but i know somebody was looking for 
them.

rear bumper for 56 olds, Wilkie(or is it Willie) you need it?

69 cutlass doors, hood, trunk $400 for all 

Sorry if i'm annoying, but just trying to help

Dink
80 Delta 88 Royale

{
Dink           Dayton, Ohio
http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
Computer Information Systems Major @ UD
}

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 00:57:42 -0400
Subject: Re: 1986 OLDS 442

> > but i would like to get a "throater" exhaust sound out of it.
> > I am about to replace the exhaust this spring and was looking for some advice
> > on what I should replace it with to give it the sound I want.
> I say Dynomax Super Turbo mufflers!  Also I would use mandrel(sp?) 
> bent pipes for maximum flow.  If it was me I would ditch the cat's if 
> you can.  They give it a more "throarty" note, than anything also a 
> bit more louder.
> 
> I have a Dynomax super turbo (yep single exhaust) with 2 1/4" pipes and a test pipe on my 
> 80 Delta with a 307.  It is much improved over stock and has really 
> "waked up" the car.
> 

	I second the Dynomax idea.  I got a complete cat-back setup for 
my Camaro that came with all the pipes (mandrel bent as others have said, 
and a whopping 2 1/2 inches to boot!).  It was a dual-outlet setup like 
on the Z-28s that looks just like dual exhaust with only one 
inlet pipe.  Pretty cool.  It added a few horses I could feel, and sounds 
great.  It's fooled more than one of my friends into thinking that my 
puney 2.8L V6 was a V8! ;)  (At least until I hit the gas...)  One thing 
on my six, though...it sounds really mean at idle, but just dosn't sound 
as "big" when I'm accelerating.  Probibly chock that up to it's tiny 
displacement.
		
		Scott
	1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98   

------------------------------

From: ngomez@iadfw.net (Nick Gomez)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 00:02:59 -0400
Subject: Re-Weather-Stripping Windows 

Most of the windows in my thirty foot monster leak. I think this explains
why there are stains on my headliner. The headliner is white and looks new,
except for brown spots all around the perimeter. Must be mildew!

Okay, I remove the old, brittle weatherstripping (one bad part about living
in Texas) clean up the area, apply some sort of adhesive, and place new
weatherstripping in place. Where do I get weatherstripping that will match
my car exactly? I think it would be easy, have any of you all done it? I
want to do this before everything is reupholstered.
BeaTniK

P.S. About car painting...a big topic. My body is straight, it just has
some scratches that need to be sanded and featheredged. I have an air
compressor and a paint gun, but no spray booth. Also, I think there are
"environmental" regulations concerning car painting now. My next
question...has anyone had their car painted by such chains as Earl Scheib?
I've heard bad things from friends, but I'm thrifty. =) So sue me!

     ------------------------------------------------------------------
     1965 Oldsmobile 98 Town Sedan   TIP # 1048   I Trade Live Concerts
     Always Buying Nirvana Items   MiSTie # 53344       Keep On Skankin
     ------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 01:12:06 -0400
Subject: Musical Years...was...Re: Salvage Yards??

> >Kind of like a 75 Cutlass too. I have found a ton of 74 and 76 Cutlass 
> >parts, but no 75. Still in need of a 75 Header panel and RF Fender.
> 
> Boy, that's weird.  As popular as the '73 - '77s were, I'd think you'd have
> better luck.  Where are you?  I'll look around down here...there's a '74 or
> '75 sitting about 3 miles from here with the motor out of it, but the
> sheetmetal looks ok.  I'm in southeast NC, about 35 miles south of
> Wilmington, NC.

	I've had similar problems finding parts for my 60.  Seems like I 
open hemmings, and there are ads for everything under the sun for 61s and 
59s.  I go to the boneyard, and find 2 59s, and a 62.  Look on Usenet, find 
ads for stuff for 58s, 59s, and 61s. AAAAAA!!  It's almost like a conspiracy!
	And of course, the only things that will interchange are engine 
parts, since sheet metal was different every year, as were trim options, 
and interior parts.  As I've posted about before, I did finally find some 
of the sheet meatal I need in CdA (three hours away).  Oh well, I guess 
thats what I get for buying a "unique" classic!

		Scott
	1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98 

------------------------------

From: Willie <aceface@ohana.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 01:03:54 -0400
Subject: Re: misc Olds parts for sale

Dink wrote:
> 
> Some people might hate me by now but i just noticed a set of 15 x 7
> Olds rallye's for $100.  Says centers and rings included.
> 
> also a set of hooker headers for 79-87 cutlasses $150 (513)374-0746
> doesn't say what size there for, but i know somebody was looking for
> them.
> 
> rear bumper for 56 olds, Wilkie(or is it Willie) you need it?
> 
> 69 cutlass doors, hood, trunk $400 for all
> 
> Sorry if i'm annoying, but just trying to help
> 
> Dink
> 80 Delta 88 Royale
> 
> {
> Dink           Dayton, Ohio
> http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
> Computer Information Systems Major @ UD
> }



Don't need the bumper. I've got a '57 OLds. My exuast goes through my bumper. I may be interested in that 455 w/ Tranny.

Willie.

------------------------------

From: Willie <aceface@ohana.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 01:13:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Re-Weather-Stripping Windows

Nick Gomez wrote:
> 
> Most of the windows in my thirty foot monster leak. I think this explains
> why there are stains on my headliner. The headliner is white and looks new,
> except for brown spots all around the perimeter. Must be mildew!
> 
> Okay, I remove the old, brittle weatherstripping (one bad part about living
> in Texas) clean up the area, apply some sort of adhesive, and place new
> weatherstripping in place. Where do I get weatherstripping that will match
> my car exactly? I think it would be easy, have any of you all done it? I
> want to do this before everything is reupholstered.
> BeaTniK
> 
> P.S. About car painting...a big topic. My body is straight, it just has
> some scratches that need to be sanded and featheredged. I have an air
> compressor and a paint gun, but no spray booth. Also, I think there are
> "environmental" regulations concerning car painting now. My next
> question...has anyone had their car painted by such chains as Earl Scheib?
> I've heard bad things from friends, but I'm thrifty. =) So sue me!
> 
>      ------------------------------------------------------------------
>      1965 Oldsmobile 98 Town Sedan   TIP # 1048   I Trade Live Concerts
>      Always Buying Nirvana Items   MiSTie # 53344       Keep On Skankin
>      ------------------------------------------------------------------



Hey Nick!

You can get all the exact weather stipping for your car at Fusick. Look it up on the Bryce page. I get mine from there. You 
can get a catalog for your year Olds that will have everything in it. As far as painting, I do my painting in front of my 
house and in the street! I just put a flame job on my car. It looks beautiful! Don't worry about laws! Just do it and if you 
get caught, you get caught! I do wierd stuff in front of my house all the time. I don't have a garage so I usually do it in 
the street. Like this week is overhauling the engine week, in front of the house of course! My nieghbors are used to it. The 
only thing you have to worry about when painting in the street is weather and dirt and dust getting into your fresh paint. So 
I would recomend doing it in your driveway and then parking it in your garage. I wouldn't let anyone touch my car! That's why 
I do everything myself. Even the painting. You'll feel more proud of yourself too! Don't worry though. Painting your car is 
nothing. It's quiet too. Try chopping a car in front of your house. Your neighbbors will love it!=) Thjat's all for now. 
Later!!!

Willie!
'57 OLds Super 88

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 01:26:52 -0400
Subject: Help! I can't part my parts car!! Was...Re: Vista Cruiser operations

> Plus, if I have the shell towed off for crushing, that's one less "classic"
> Olds on the road for someone else to restore...
> 
> Come on people, convince me that I should just set a date to have it towed
> off, pull and sell what I can before then, and be done with it! Otherwise, I
> might start cleaning the interior, seeing if I can get some other heads to go
> on the 350, patching up the rust, etc...
> 

	I feel your pain!!  I've got a 75 Caddy Sedan DeVille four door 
hardtop that I got for about $300 (hey, it seemed like a good idea at the 
time)  It's got a body that is close to perfect.  Aside from a couple 
scratches, and some oxidation the paint is in good shape.  The interior 
isn't bad (white leather, drivers seat is worn) and it's got the 500 inch 
monster big block with a genuine BOP pattern TH-400.  Right now I'm 
strapped for cash, and it seems like getting rid of it is going to be 
tough.  The market here is really bad for anything this big.  Missoula is 
a college town, and everybody wants some little 50 mpg Japanese wonder.  
	So the problem is...do I nab that engine and trans for some 
future project and sell the rest to the boneyard for $100 (almost half my 
rent 
for a month) or hold out and try to sell it to someone who will actually 
drive it?  Even though it's a 75, I still hate to take old cars off the 
road, when it really would'nt take much to get it back into top shape.   
	I'm even worse when it comes to older cars.  I don't think I 
could handle actually having a parts car.  The temptation would just be 
too great to fix it too.  "Well, the paint is'nt that bad...mightaswell 
just give it a little polish to see what it looks like under there..."
	
	Well, enough of my rambeling...Anyway, I know what it's like!

		Scott
	1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: "Dink" <heinle@jake.udayton.edu>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 01:29:51 -0400
Subject: Re: misc Olds parts for sale

> Don't need the bumper. I've got a '57 OLds. My exuast goes through my bumper.
Sweat!  I myself am looking for a 56 super88, and really don't know 
them that well yet.

> I may be interested in that 455 w/ Tranny.
I wonder how much shipping would be, and i wouldn't even know what to 
look for on it.

Dink
80 Delta 88 Royale

{
Dink           Dayton, Ohio
http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
Computer Information Systems Major @ UD
}

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 01:32:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Re-Weather-Stripping Windows

> > Okay, I remove the old, brittle weatherstripping (one bad part about living
> > in Texas) clean up the area, apply some sort of adhesive, and place new
> > weatherstripping in place. Where do I get weatherstripping that will match
> > my car exactly? I think it would be easy, have any of you all done it? I
> > want to do this before everything is reupholstered.
> > BeaTniK
> > 
> 
> You can get all the exact weather stipping for your car at Fusick. Look it up on the Bryce page. I get mine from there. You 
> can get a catalog for your year Olds that will have everything in it. As far as painting, I do my painting in front of my 
> house and in the street! I just put a flame job on my car. It looks beautiful! Don't worry about laws! Just do it and if you 
>
	Also try Metro.  I have their address if you want it.  Seems like 
their prices are a little better than Fusick or Olds USA.  I haven't 
personally ordered anything from them, but it looks like good stuff.  
They sent me a HUGE catalog with all kinds of seals, gromets, etc. that 
are supposed to be molded exactly like the originals.



			Scott
		1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98
		

------------------------------

From: John Schmich <schmich@AZStarNet.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 01:39:54 -0400
Subject: Re: 1986 OLDS 442 

 I just want a low rumble at idle,
a roar at acceleration and a low rumble at cruising speed.
The factory wheels on the 442 were 15". 
Im also sure the were 15" on the Salon model also. The majority of chrome
(all chrome) wheels are 14" as some people mentioned. However rare there
are 15" out there somewhere. They have a gold colored inlay around the 
center caps. So if anyone knows where they hide them, Please let me know!!
WES "OLDZ442" 


Hey Wes,

     My brother just put a Flowmaster on his 85 Salon and it is really loud
at idle and loud at cruisin' speed.  It sounds really tuff when light on the
gas but during hard acceleration, it tends to die out quickly.  I own an 86
Salon and I'm pretty sure that the Salon came standard with the 14" color
coded rallies.  The only reason that I can think of why the Salon didn't
come with the 15" is for the rear axle.  Salon = 7.5" standard; 442 = 8.5"
posi.  I also wish I could get a set of 15".  That new classifieds service
on the web that someone mentioned had a ad for a set of 15" 442 and a set of
15" Hurst wheels.  Problem is NY, no price.
     To all the late model, 307" guys out there, Tom L., Wes, Dink, Ed, etc.
Just took the '86 motor out of my car today.  Boy is it a pain with all
those vaccum lines, and electrical stuff running every which way around
there.  When it was out we took a look and sure enough, the 86 Y motor has a
roller cam in it.  As for the intake manifold, it looks pretty good.  Just
need to make some minor changes like adapters for the various valves,
sending units because the holes in the maniflold are bigger than stock, no
biggie.  We saved a lot of time by doing in our garage rather than at the
shop, but it still looks like at least two weeks unless my brother can get
it in before his spring break starts, March 30th.  Now all that has to be
taken care of is finding a true dual exhaust kit for the new headers.
JCWhitney claims that they have a dual exhaust kit for the Cutlass but that
the tailpipes exit before the rear wheels, WHAT THE... 
     More to come...

Brandon

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 01:40:11 -0400
Subject: Re: caddy motor for sale

> anybody want a Caddy 472 and trans?  Less than 42k miles, can hear 
> run.  price is $475.  I found this in the local(Dayton, Ohio) parts trader.
> Sounds pretty good to me. phone# is (513)436-3944
> 
> disclaimer : don't know em, blah blah
> 

	Thats not too bad.  But I would let someone have that 500 inch 
caddy motor I mentioned in another post for about $300...with the rest of 
the car wrapped around it!  I would also consider a trade...like a front 
of rear bumper for my '60 98, or maybe the front chrome strips that go on 
the front fenders.  Or just about anything else to finish my Olds 
project!  (how about a clock and wiper motor??)  Any offers?  ;) Act 
fast...I've had a guy offer me a $400 Pierce pool cue as a trade.  I'm 
still thinking about that one though....
	
			
			Scott
		1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98   

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 01:43:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Vista Cruiser adventure (bit long...) 

In a message dated 96-03-24 16:43:50 EST, you write:

>I went to look at it. I don't know about "a hell of a deal", but if I had 
>a facility I might be tempted to make an offer. The body doesn't have any 
>real bad rust but would need a total redo. There's some leakage around one 
>of the vista windows in the roof, so water has gotten inside but 
>amazingly the floors are still solid and the seats (blue cloth, bench) look 
>just fine, but the carpet is shot. Just as well since it's not the 
>original but a green-gold shade that looks really nice with the blue... 
>:) The dash has been a little butchered with a 3-guage panel being 
>installed in the center. Car needs a windshield and the chrome would need 
>to be redone. Like Bob''s it has the step rear bumper and the 2-way
tailgate.

Well, the glass on my '72 VC is pretty good, and the dash is all there and
untouched. The carpets on mine are shot as well, though, since I believe the
factory-installed leaks were timed to kick in 10 years after it was sold, and
mine has that option. =(

>Popped the hood and sure enough, a 455 lived there. It sure didn't look
>rebuilt though, with all of the dirt and rust it looked like it hadn't
>been touched in years. Used to be a a/c car and the part that attached to
>the firewall is still there but the compressor and hoses are gone. A nice
>Delco Freedom battery was the cleanest thing there. Still, if it was
>actually rebuilt, it wouldn't be a big problem to clean it up. 

My car belongs to a little old lady, who passed away shortly after selling it
to a little old man, who I bought it from. Thankfully, it wouldn't have
crossed either of their minds to remove the A/C compressor, or any part
really. Us hot rodders are great to hang out with, but terrible people to buy
cars from...

>The interesting thing was that there were about 4 Olds Club stickers on
>the thing, including the Maine chapter which I have never heard of. 
>Somebody cared for this at one time in the past. If you restored it, this
>would be one neat car to use as a parts chaser or driver if you didn't
>need to use it every day. Combine this one with Bob's parts car and I bet
>you'd end up with a nice project.... 
>
>Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Well, the fact that my VC was primarily used to store tires for the last six
years shows how much it was cared for... If the owner cared, he might have
noticed that there was *no* fluid in the master cylinder. Or the swamp in the
carpets.

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 01:43:43 -0400
Subject: More Vista Cruiser Questions 

A couple more questions about my latest aquisition...

1) How do you open a locked glove box? The previous owner only had the square
ignition key, which opens everything and turns everything except for the
glove box door. Since the dash is in perfect shape, breaking it open is a
last resort.

2) My Chilton's manual lists the disc brake size from 1970 thru 1980 as
10.88", *except* for 1972, which they list as 11.74". Is this for real, and
should I swap these brakes onto my '70 SX?

BTW, did anyone ever get the impression that there is really only *one*
Chilton's manual, and they just insert different specifications for different
volumes?

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 23:19:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds AM/FM flippin' dial radio 

Sorry, Conrad, but those flip dial am/fm's will only fit A-body cars.  '66 to
'70(?) Toros take special radios with an angled face plate.  We've had two of
these, and I could swap the radios between them, but not replace them with
one from another car.  My suggestion to you is to install a '67 am/fm stereo.
 Hardly anyone will ever know the difference and the sound quality is much
better than a monaural unit.

Paul H.

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 02:09:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Vista Cruiser operation questions 

In a message dated 96-03-24 23:12:42 EST, you write:

>>Hmmm, need any parts...? I'm willing to sacrifice the VC for a greater good
>>(and a CS convert is much greater than a VC)
>
>Don't suppose that VC has a 4-way power bench seat?

No, unfortunately it is a non-power bench with the much-less desireable
"visible stuffing" option...

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 02:10:15 -0400
Subject: Removing woodgrain? 

Has anyone here ever successfully removed the vinyl woodgrain from a car? 

The Fisher body service manual says to peel it off, with the aid of heat if
necessary; do they mean a hair dryer close up or a heat gun at a distance?

------------------------------

From: "Dal Allan" <dal_allan@mcimail.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 02:31:42 -0400
Subject: O2_Sensor_on_307s 

As owner of an anemic 307s that power wagons, I need some assistance. 

My wife keeps telling me the SERVICE ENGINE SOON light comes on for her 'all 
the time' but when I've got the car out it never seems to happen, but.... 
Last week while cruising along the highways at a steady 60mph, the light 
came on, stayed on for 15-20 seconds, and then disappeared. 

I have access to an OTC Scan Monitor 4000E, so used it to do some analysis.

Not being familiar with this thing, it was a case of reading the manual and 
experimenting. There were no stored codes. However, while sitting at Idle, I 
did get a Code 13 indicating the Oxygen Sensor may be bad (the OTC suggested 
cleaning the terminals). When driving, there were no warnings and I did not 
see the code again, and here is what happened: 

 - The LEDs flipped between Lean and Rich regularly, with no particular 
   favoritism between coasting and accelerating. 
 - I understood that the car is supposed to be in Closed Loop all the time 
   but after leaving the store, it was in Open Loop for about 3 miles before 
   going Closed Loop. 

A quick look at the service manual and it seemed like all that had to be 
done to find the O2 sensor was pop the hood and it would be at the back of 
the block on the passenger side. If it is, I'm still looking. You'd think a 
purple wire would be a dead giveaway but all the harnesses are wrapped in 
plastic coils so finding a particular color is nowhere near as easy as it 
used to be. 

It does not help that this block is painted black, and there is no contrast 
anywhere when trying to trace thing. 

Any assistance would be appreciated. 

Dal

------------------------------

From: Willie <aceface@ohana.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 02:45:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Removing woodgrain?

Bob0Barry@AOL.COM wrote:
> 
> Has anyone here ever successfully removed the vinyl woodgrain from a car?
> 
> The Fisher body service manual says to peel it off, with the aid of heat if
> necessary; do they mean a hair dryer close up or a heat gun at a distance?


Use a heat gun at a distance. But don't burn your fingers. I've never taken off vinyl woodgrain before but it usually works 
with most adhesives. Don't keep the gun in one area too long. Only heat where you are about to peel and keep moving at a 
steady pace.

Willie

------------------------------

From: Willie <aceface@ohana.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 02:51:00 -0400
Subject: Re: O2_Sensor_on_307s

Dal Allan wrote:
> 
> As owner of an anemic 307s that power wagons, I need some assistance.
> 
> My wife keeps telling me the SERVICE ENGINE SOON light comes on for her 'all
> the time' but when I've got the car out it never seems to happen, but....
> Last week while cruising along the highways at a steady 60mph, the light
> came on, stayed on for 15-20 seconds, and then disappeared.
> 
> I have access to an OTC Scan Monitor 4000E, so used it to do some analysis.
> 
> Not being familiar with this thing, it was a case of reading the manual and
> experimenting. There were no stored codes. However, while sitting at Idle, I
> did get a Code 13 indicating the Oxygen Sensor may be bad (the OTC suggested
> cleaning the terminals). When driving, there were no warnings and I did not
> see the code again, and here is what happened:
> 
>  - The LEDs flipped between Lean and Rich regularly, with no particular
>    favoritism between coasting and accelerating.
>  - I understood that the car is supposed to be in Closed Loop all the time
>    but after leaving the store, it was in Open Loop for about 3 miles before
>    going Closed Loop.
> 
> A quick look at the service manual and it seemed like all that had to be
> done to find the O2 sensor was pop the hood and it would be at the back of
> the block on the passenger side. If it is, I'm still looking. You'd think a
> purple wire would be a dead giveaway but all the harnesses are wrapped in
> plastic coils so finding a particular color is nowhere near as easy as it
> used to be.
> 
> It does not help that this block is painted black, and there is no contrast
> anywhere when trying to trace thing.
> 
> Any assistance would be appreciated.
> 
> Dal


Sorry Dal,

I can't help you but I know how you feel! You have finally joined the club. This is why I no longer drive computer controlled 
cars. They suck! They only advise I can give you is to get yourself a car from when cars where built to last.


Willie
'57 Olds Super 88

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 06:01:04 -0400
Subject: Re: 1986 OLDS 442 

How about Torque Technologies?  They sell a cat back exhaust for Monte SS's,
GN's,and most importantly, 442's.  It is 3" mandrel bent and I think you can
use Flowmasters of Dynomax mufflers with it.  I'm sure it will sound better.
 As for the company, I installed there 'true dual'  3" pipes over Christmas
on my 79 Cutlass and it really has a good sound to it (with Flowmasters....)
 If you need there number, its in Hot Rod and Car Craft or you can write me
back.   Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 06:48:27 -0400
Subject: Fusick's and Woodgrain, etc. was Re: Salvage Yards??

On Sun, 24 Mar 1996 Bob0Barry@aol.com wrote:
> Where is Fusick's in CT? I know the name, but didn't know they were so close
> to home.

Fusick Automotive Products is their full name, and they are located at 22 
Thompson Rd., East Windsor, Ct., 860-623-1589. I ordered some stuff from 
them last week and they sounded like they knew their stuff. We'll see 
once it comes.

And Bob, why are you interested in knowing how to remove that woodgrain? 
Not gonna restore that VC, are you?  :) 

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Roger Saladin <rsaladin@bright.net>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 08:51:39 -0400
Subject: Re: More Vista Cruiser Questions 

At 01:43 AM 3/25/96 -0400, you wrote:
>A couple more questions about my latest aquisition...
>

>2) My Chilton's manual lists the disc brake size from 1970 thru 1980 as
>10.88", *except* for 1972, which they list as 11.74". Is this for real, and
>should I swap these brakes onto my '70 SX?
>
'72 service manual lists A body dics as 11.0" diameter (this would include
the VC), and B & C body discs as 11.88".
>
>

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 09:29:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Fusick's and Woodgrain, etc. was Re: Salvage Yards?? 

At 06:48 AM 3/25/96 -0400, you wrote:
>On Sun, 24 Mar 1996 Bob0Barry@aol.com wrote:
>> Where is Fusick's in CT? I know the name, but didn't know they were so close
>> to home.
>
>Fusick Automotive Products is their full name, and they are located at 22 
>Thompson Rd., East Windsor, Ct., 860-623-1589. I ordered some stuff from 
>them last week and they sounded like they knew their stuff. We'll see 
>once it comes.

>Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada


I've ordered numerous times from Fusick, and they DO know their stuff.  They're
whole business is Oldsmobiles.  If they didn't know their stuff, they'd be
out of business in five minutes.


************************************************
Daniel A. Gulino
Associate Professor and Graduate Chairman
Department of Chemical Engineering
Ohio University
Athens, Ohio  45701-2979
(614) 593-1495
(614) 593-0873 (fax)
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://www.ent.ohiou.edu/che/faculty/gulino.html
(or just open the window and shout!)
************************************************

------------------------------

From: Richard Bonazzoli <bonazzoli@5onflr.ENET.dec.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 09:13:51 -0400
Subject: RE: 72 Toro 455 

>I am looking for a new engine to put into my Z/28. How would a 72 Toro
>455 be to start as a block to build up for performance. Any pro's or
>con's on this engine. I have already heard from some on the list about
>it in the past. I have two 455's I can use, this one and a 74 Buick 455.

The Buick is lighter, but there may be interference from the oil filter
mount.

I would not use either.  The resale of the car will be ruined, and it will
be illegal in many states which have/will soon adopt laws that prohibit
the installation of non-factory available engines.

Rich

------------------------------

From: david.chontofalsky@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 09:29:25 -0400
Subject: Re: 73 fender question 

In pictures they look similar.  Call a salvage yard and have them look in the
interchange manual.  that should tell you.  They may look similar but they may
bolt up differently
David
74 hurst/olds

sent this note before, but don't know if it went through when the list 
was acting up. I need to know if a RF fender off a 73 Cutlass will fit a 
75 Cutlass? My interchange manual says 74-75 will only fit my 75, but 
that 73 fender looks identical?


Jason Labay                                            jlabay@phoenix.kent.edu
Akron, Ohio                                            xdsg80a@prodigy.com    
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25                                                          
1988 Camaro Z/28 CFI 305...soon to be LT4                                     

------------------------------

From: david.chontofalsky@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 09:30:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Removing woodgrain? 

HEAT GUN!
DAvid



anyone here ever successfully removed the vinyl woodgrain from a car? 

The Fisher body service manual says to peel it off, with the aid of heat if
necessary; do they mean a hair dryer close up or a heat gun at a distance?

------------------------------

From: clark@sh28.dseg.ti.com (Pat Clark 952-3776)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 10:00:59 -0400
Subject: Distributor timing advance

	Was messing around with my car this past weekend and discovered two verydisturbing things. First, my dwell was off 12 deg even though I had set it 3 wks
ago! Second, no matter how far I reved the engine up (approx 2k), the timing
didn't advance a bit. Took the cap and rotor off to take a look at the advance.
Everything looked fine and moved freely. Anybody have any ideas on what causes  these two problems and what I should look for? I think I might be better off    dumping the old distributor ( putting it in a box and storing it for later) and getting a electronic one. If I did this anyone have any model recommendations   (and  prices)?


          ___              ___        _________
         /   |            /   |      /         \
        /    |           /    |     |   ___    |
       /     |          /     |     |__|   |   |
      /      |         /      |           /   /   
     /       |        /       |          /   /   
    /   /|   |       /   /|   |         /   /
   /   /_|   |__    /   /_|   |__      /   /
  |             |  |             |    /   /
  |______     __|  |______     __|   /   /_____
         |   |            |   |     |          |      Pat Clark
         |___|            |___|     |__________|       69 442
						      400/400

   "Just your average 300+hp garage hogging, gas sucking, money pit"

------------------------------

From: clark@sh28.dseg.ti.com (Pat Clark 952-3776)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 10:07:16 -0400
Subject: olds trim

Posted in rec.autos.antique



  	From Jonathan <pnelson@cyberport.com>
	Newsgroups: rec.autos.antique
	Subject: 1966 Oldsmoble
	Date: Thu Mar 21 19:48:56 CST 1996
	Organization: Cyberport Montana.

	Any one want the trim off a 66 Olds 98?
	Also what is interchangable between a 425 and a 455?
	Thanks Kenneth



Well, does anyone?



         /   |            /   |      /         \
        /    |           /    |     |   ___    |
       /     |          /     |     |__|   |   |
      /      |         /      |           /   /   
     /       |        /       |          /   /   
    /   /|   |       /   /|   |         /   /
   /   /_|   |__    /   /_|   |__      /   /
  |             |  |             |    /   /
  |______     __|  |______     __|   /   /_____
         |   |            |   |     |          |      Pat Clark
         |___|            |___|     |__________|       69 442
						      400/400

   "Just your average 300+hp garage hogging, gas sucking, money pit"

------------------------------

From: Scott Nolan <snolan@chat.carleton.ca>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 10:45:14 -0400
Subject: Olds Ninety Eight

Last Friday i was driving by this car that has been for sale for quite
some time. i finally stopped to look at it. It is a Olds Ninety Eight 4
door, light green with a/c. It l;ooked like a 65-66 but i am not sure.
It had the 4 headlights like my 65 F85 so i assume it was a 65-66. i
wasn't really interested in purchasing and i was in a rush so i didn't go
to the farmhouse and ask what they were asking for it. from a quick look
it seems like a solid car. It had the spinners on the hubcaps and a 3
speed tranny. Any idea what the engine would be? Just curious.

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott Nolan           Carleton University      
`Please God, give a bald guy a break, amen' -Homer (as in Simpson!) 
Email address: snolan@chat.carleton.ca
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: John Schmich <schmich@AZStarNet.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 11:03:23 -0400
Subject: Re: 1986 OLDS 442 

At 06:01 AM 3/25/96 -0400, you wrote:
>How about Torque Technologies?  They sell a cat back exhaust for Monte SS's,
>GN's,and most importantly, 442's.  It is 3" mandrel bent and I think you can
>use Flowmasters of Dynomax mufflers with it.  I'm sure it will sound better.
> As for the company, I installed there 'true dual'  3" pipes over Christmas
>on my 79 Cutlass and it really has a good sound to it (with Flowmasters....)
> If you need there number, its in Hot Rod and Car Craft or you can write me
>back.   Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com
>
>
>
Tom M. 

Ya I've seen that ad in the back of the mags and I have considered it many
times but two questions are holding me up:
1. Will 3" pipes be too much for my engine's needs?  Its true that you do
need some resistance from your exhaust system but what is the limit?  I'm
not sure so you might have some ideas for me.  Either way, your motor might
be simialar enough to my that you could give me the honest answer.  Did it
help considerably on your (260,350?).

2.  The price.  I would like to know how much they are before I spend the $2
(?)  for the catalog.  If you or anyone else has the catalog tell me if its
worth it.

Thanks
Brandon

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 03:14:39 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: 1986 OLDS 442 

     I thought it was an '84 you were working on putting a new engine in?  
     Or is the engine '84 and the car '86?  Now I'm confused, weren't you 
     also putting an '84 engine in your brother's car too?
     
     Got the new engine together yet?  How did that Edelbrock intake fit?
     
     I've seen the "dual exhaust" in the JCW catalog too.  Note that it 
     doesn't have catalytic converters too.  I think your best bet is to 
     have the duals custom bent.
     
     Do those headers look like they'll fit right in where the exh. 
     manifolds were?  Do they hook up to the existing exhaust or is the 
     exit at a different location than the manifolds?
     
     Thanks!
     
     Tom L.

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: 1986 OLDS 442
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    3/24/96 10:14 PM

     To all the late model, 307" guys out there, Tom L., Wes, Dink, Ed, etc.
Just took the '86 motor out of my car today.  Boy is it a pain with all 
those vaccum lines, and electrical stuff running every which way around 
there.  When it was out we took a look and sure enough, the 86 Y motor has a 
roller cam in it.  As for the intake manifold, it looks pretty good.  Just 
need to make some minor changes like adapters for the various valves, 
sending units because the holes in the maniflold are bigger than stock, no 
biggie.  We saved a lot of time by doing in our garage rather than at the 
shop, but it still looks like at least two weeks unless my brother can get 
it in before his spring break starts, March 30th.  Now all that has to be 
taken care of is finding a true dual exhaust kit for the new headers. 
JCWhitney claims that they have a dual exhaust kit for the Cutlass but that 
the tailpipes exit before the rear wheels, WHAT THE... 
     More to come...
     
Brandon
     
     

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 03:14:43 -0400
Subject: Re: O2_Sensor_on_307s 

     The O2 sensor is in the right-hand (passenger side) exhaust manifold.  
     It's on top of the "U-shaped" part which allows you the choice between 
     bottom or rear exhaust exit (one will be used, one will be blocked 
     off).
     
     I don't have my manual handy to look up a code 13, but generally the 
     codes are more specific than "Bad O2 sensor", although a bad O2 sensor 
     can be the culprit behind just about any code you wish.  Replacing the 
     O2 sensor might not be a bad idea.  The good Bosch platinum tip ones 
     are about $30 at NAPA.  If you're gonna replace it, do yourself a 
     favor and soak the old one with pentrating oil the night before.  
     They're usually frozen. . .
     
     Maybe someone else can clear the lean/rich and closed loop issue up 
     for sure, but if I understand right, the car should regularly flip 
     between rich and lean as it goes back and forth trying to reach the 
     stoichiometric ratio, but it may be supposed to switch many times per 
     second.
     
     How long were you at the store?  Was the engine warmed up at that time 
     and did it have time to cool down?
     
     Are you aware of the "paper-clip between pins 1 and 2" trick to get 
     the check engine light to flash the code?  You don't need the scanner, 
     but they're nice and give other info (like rich/lean).
     
     Tom L.


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: O2_Sensor_on_307s
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    3/24/96 11:14 PM
     
My wife keeps telling me the SERVICE ENGINE SOON light comes on for her 'all 
the time' but when I've got the car out it never seems to happen, but.... 
Last week while cruising along the highways at a steady 60mph, the light 
came on, stayed on for 15-20 seconds, and then disappeared. 
     
I have access to an OTC Scan Monitor 4000E, so used it to do some analysis.
     
Not being familiar with this thing, it was a case of reading the manual and 
experimenting. There were no stored codes. However, while sitting at Idle, I 
did get a Code 13 indicating the Oxygen Sensor may be bad (the OTC suggested 
cleaning the terminals). When driving, there were no warnings and I did not 
see the code again, and here is what happened: 
     
 - The LEDs flipped between Lean and Rich regularly, with no particular 
   favoritism between coasting and accelerating. 
 - I understood that the car is supposed to be in Closed Loop all the time 
   but after leaving the store, it was in Open Loop for about 3 miles before 
   going Closed Loop. 
     
A quick look at the service manual and it seemed like all that had to be 
done to find the O2 sensor was pop the hood and it would be at the back of 
the block on the passenger side. If it is, I'm still looking. You'd think a 
purple wire would be a dead giveaway but all the harnesses are wrapped in 
plastic coils so finding a particular color is nowhere near as easy as it 
used to be. 
     
It does not help that this block is painted black, and there is no contrast 
anywhere when trying to trace thing. 
     
Any assistance would be appreciated. 
     
Dal
     

------------------------------

From: JK McCall <jkmccall@QBC.Clic.Net>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 14:40:05 -0400
Subject: Chilton & Haynes manuals

> BTW, did anyone ever get the impression that there is really only *one*
> Chilton's manual, and they just insert different specifications for different
> volumes?


I guess the same could be said for Haynes manuals.  I have 6 in my 
collection now and they all pretty much have the same info.  Just the 
specs for the different vehicles and perhaps a few different procedures.

Someone's making a mint....

JK McCall

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 11:42:57 -0400
Subject: Re: More Vista Cruiser Questions 

>1) How do you open a locked glove box? The previous owner only had the square
>ignition key, which opens everything and turns everything except for the
>glove box door. Since the dash is in perfect shape, breaking it open is a
>last resort.

I think you might stand a chance by going up from underneath and removing
the piano hinge along the bottom. I did this once on an old GM car but
don't remember what year... Anyway, it was a process of removing the lower
A/C duct and crotch-cooler assemblies (about three long screws), which then
revealed the continuous hinge along the lower edge of the glove box, and
removing about four screws there opened it enough to get inside. Seems to
me it was a dead car we were emptying so I don't recall if the latch can
be unscrewed, etc. Just explore and see what you find under there...

>BTW, did anyone ever get the impression that there is really only *one*
>Chilton's manual, and they just insert different specifications for different
>volumes?

Well, yes, they do. The standard text is called "boilerplate", and comes from
assorted files pulled together for each particular model/volume/whatever,
after which editors go in and drop in specific numbers, tips and whatnot.
While we did do quite a few auto service manual publication systems over
the years (disclaimer alert :-), this is a common practice for all kinds of
publications. Now, whether the numbers, instructions and so on are _correct_
in each case is another matter; it's only as accurate as the people working
on it will bother to be.
- --
Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: proietto@dow.on.doe.ca (Proietto, F.)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 11:54:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Distributor timing advance

>	Was messing around with my car this past weekend and discovered two 
verydisturbing things. First, my dwell was off 12 deg even though I had set 
it 3 wks
>ago! Second, no matter how far I reved the engine up (approx 2k), the timing
>didn't advance a bit. Took the cap and rotor off to take a look at the advance.
>Everything looked fine and moved freely. Anybody have any ideas on what 
causes  these two problems and what I should look for? I think I might be 
better off    dumping the old distributor ( putting it in a box and storing 
it for later) and getting a electronic one. If I did this anyone have any 
model recommendations   (and  prices)?


Chech your vaccuum lines. Maybe your vac. advance diafram is stuck. Usually 
they get filled with dirt and grime and they stick. But first check to see 
that you are getting vac to the distributor.

If your going to an HEI system, try getting one from a '76 or '77 model. I 
was told that they are the best in terms of parts are also direct 
replactement with the points distributor. Maybe there more, not sure. Mine 
is a '77 and I've gotten it to work very well.

Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 12:08:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Vista Cruiser operation questions 

>I've got a few "operational" questions about my recently acquired '72 Vista
>Cruiser...
>
>1) How do you raise the rear seats? They've been folded down for about 10
>years or so while the car has been sitting, and there is no obvious way to
>get them upright. There is a lever on either side of the 2nd seat, but that
>looks more like a release to put them down. It seems that they might just
>fold up, but I don't want to use brute force if there is some little catch
>somewhere that I have to release.

This sounds like the same hardware first used in the wagons back in 1968.
If you were to put the rear seat (2nd, not third) down in the first place,
it's immediately obvious how to get it back up: After flipping the release
lever(s) to unlock the seatback, as it swings forward you see a kind of
double-hinged accordion-pleat metal panel behind the seat opening out to
fill in the gap. As the seatback flops forward onto the seat cushion, you
have to push it down the last inch or two, as if you were sitting on an 
overstuffed suitcase, and with a heavy *ka-WHONK* the metal panel pops down
flat, held down by the pressure of the seat cushions pushing back.

So to release it, you press down a bit on the front/top of the seatback to
release the load on the metal panel, and lift up on the edge somewhere near
the hinge that will be folding _upward_. From what I remember, the rearmost
hinge stays down and its panel comes up; the next forward hinge, the one
you lift, comes up; the next hinge forward from that will attach to the
back of the seat.

As soon as you pop it up, the seat will come back up. I imagine you'll 
find big square imprints in the cushion where the seatbelt buckles have 
been pressed into it for 8 years.  :-)

>In addition, the 3rd seat shows no obvious latches or releases. Does the 2nd
>seat have to be up to put up the 3rd seat?

Not that I recall, but our Pontiac wagon didn't have that option. We had the
simple under-floor storage compartment there, but you could get to it and
open the lid regardless of the 2nd-seat position.

>2) How do you open the rear gate? All there is on the outside is a key, which
>seems to operate a solenoid of some sort when turned each way.

Nope, just an electric window motor.

>The rear
>window is electric, but doesn't react to the switch on the dash.

Hmm. It should, in either Accessory or Run ignition switch positions.

>Inside, the
>handle on the left has apparently broken the release cable.

Bummer.

>The handle in the center still moves, but feels like something is 
>locked.

Yes, the rear window glass must be fully lowered, as others have noted.

>It looks like this is
>a 2-way gate, either swinging out or folding down.

It is. We usually used ours door-style, swinging it out on the driver's
side hinge. As a boy, I was convinced that if I lifted the middle latch
while the gate was opened from the side, the tailgate would fall off.  :-)

>Right now it does neither.

Bummer redux.

>Does the rear window have to be down before you can open the gate? If so, how
>can I get that motor going?

Well, bolting in a fresh battery to get maximum power to the motor would be
a start. If you hear a clunk from the window lift when turning the key, it
might eventually free itself with repeated clunks; perhaps the regulator is
gunked up. Spray a lot of Liqid Wrench on whatever pivot points you can see
down the gap by the glass, or by removing access panels from the inside.

>And how are you supposed to open it from the
>outside?

You roll down the window with the key (or via the dashboard rocker switch), 
then reach in and pull either of the tailgate release handles.

>The rear bumper has a cutout-type section on the passenger side; is
>that a hinge, or is it some kind of hidden release?

Neither; it's simply a recessed step for climbing in to the back.

>All these things are mondo cool when cars are new, but 25 years down the
>road, they are just a pain in the a**!

Actually, no, the pain-in-the-a** option was the disappearing tailgate,
but that's another story.  :-)
- --
Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 12:26:13 -0400
Subject: Re: More Vista Cruiser Questions

On Mon, 25 Mar 1996, Andrew C. Green wrote:
> >Bob0Barry@aol.com wrote:
> >1) How do you open a locked glove box? The previous owner only had the square
> >ignition key, which opens everything and turns everything except for the
> >glove box door. Since the dash is in perfect shape, breaking it open is a
> >last resort.
> 
> I think you might stand a chance by going up from underneath and removing
> the piano hinge along the bottom. I did this once on an old GM car but
> don't remember what year...

Geez, I dunno but most of the time the bigger problem is getting the 
things to stay shut! Couldn't you just gently pry on the door with a 
screwdriver to pop it free? Most of these are just plastic and cardboard...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 12:23:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Distributor timing advance 

At 10:00 AM 3/25/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Was messing around with my car this past weekend and discovered two
>very disturbing things. First, my dwell was off 12 deg even though I 
>had set it 3 wks ago! Second, no matter how far I reved the engine up
>(approx 2k), the timing didn't advance a bit. Took the cap and rotor 
>off to take a look at the advance.
>Everything looked fine and moved freely. Anybody have any ideas on what
>causes  these two problems and what I should look for?

Umm... The clamp at the base of the distributor is tight, right? Under
the breaker plate in the distributor, the centrifugal weights are free
to move, right? Do the springs retract the weights properly when you let
go? Using a hand vacuum pump connected to the vacuum-advance diaphragm,
can you draw vacuum on it and see the breaker plate move? Does it move
back again when vacuum is released? Does it stay in position with vacuum
applied, without leaking? And with the engine warmed up, is vacuum being
applied to the distributor at the right times? (Or at _any_ times? :-)
- --
Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: clark@sh28.dseg.ti.com (Pat Clark 952-3776)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 12:32:42 -0400
Subject: Distributor advance

	Well, this is the third time I have written this up. The first two never showed up in my mailbox (it gets amazingly shorter everytime!) Even if you don't have an answer for me, someone please drop me a line saying that it went out!

  Worked on my 69 442 this weekend and found two problems. One, the dwell had
moved 12 deg in 3 wks! Second, my timing doesn't advance no matter how fast I
revved the engine (up to about 2k). Took the cap and rotor off to see and found the weights and springs in good shape and moving freely. Any suggestions? I am
thinking about dumping the old dist. and getting an electronic one. Any 
suggestions on which model? (low cost, daily driver performance). Thanks


          ___              ___        _________
         /   |            /   |      /         \
        /    |           /    |     |   ___    |
       /     |          /     |     |__|   |   |
      /      |         /      |           /   /   
     /       |        /       |          /   /   
    /   /|   |       /   /|   |         /   /
   /   /_|   |__    /   /_|   |__      /   /
  |             |  |             |    /   /
  |______     __|  |______     __|   /   /_____
         |   |            |   |     |          |      Pat Clark
         |___|            |___|     |__________|       69 442
						      400/400

   "Just your average 300+hp garage hogging, gas sucking, money pit"

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <jlabay@Phoenix.kent.edu>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 12:38:58 -0400
Subject: RE: 72 Toro 455

The resale of my Z/28 is already ruined, it has a rebuilt salvage title 
and in totally non-original. According to the Ohio E-check laws my car is 
illegal as you can get. I took it to the test and they never popped the 
hood...lucky me. It passed the emission test with flying colors.

Does anybody need any 72 Toro parts? I have the car here ready to part out.

Jason Labay                                            jlabay@phoenix.kent.edu
Akron, Ohio                                            xdsg80a@prodigy.com    
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25                                                          
1988 Camaro Z/28 CFI 305...soon to be LT4                                     

On Mon, 25 Mar 1996, Richard Bonazzoli wrote:

> >I am looking for a new engine to put into my Z/28. How would a 72 Toro
> >455 be to start as a block to build up for performance. Any pro's or
> >con's on this engine. I have already heard from some on the list about
> >it in the past. I have two 455's I can use, this one and a 74 Buick 455.
> 
> The Buick is lighter, but there may be interference from the oil filter
> mount.
> 
> I would not use either.  The resale of the car will be ruined, and it will
> be illegal in many states which have/will soon adopt laws that prohibit
> the installation of non-factory available engines.
> 
> Rich
> 
> 

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 12:50:52 -0400
Subject: Re: More Vista Cruiser Questions 

>Geez, I dunno but most of the time the bigger problem is getting the 
>things to stay shut! Couldn't you just gently pry on the door with a 
>screwdriver to pop it free? Most of these are just plastic and cardboard...

>From what I remember of the old '69 and '72 Pontiacs in our family, both
had stamped steel glove box covers. The latch assembly was pot metal and
latched to a very thick shaped wire catch. I think prying on it would
deform a lot of stuff and not get you very far... which I think is why
they may have designed a difficult-but-not-impossible way of getting into
the glove box after the idiot customer has lost the keys.

A locksmith might simply drill out the pot-metal lock cylinder, since you
can unbolt and replace that after you get everything open.
- --
Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Doug Ahern <doug@cobra.cosmic.uga.edu>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 13:09:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Distributor advance

>       Well, this is the third time I have written this up. The first two never showed up in my mailbox (it gets amazingly shorter everytime!) Even if you don't have an answer for me, someone please drop me a line saying that it went out!
> 
>   Worked on my 69 442 this weekend and found two problems. One, the dwell had
> moved 12 deg in 3 wks! Second, my timing doesn't advance no matter how fast I
> revved the engine (up to about 2k). Took the cap and rotor off to see and found the weights and springs in good shape and moving freely. Any suggestions? I am
> thinking about dumping the old dist. and getting an electronic one. Any 
> suggestions on which model? (low cost, daily driver performance). Thanks

first, are your old points worn?  I cant imagine that the are after just
3weeks.  If they are worn out, then something is burning them up prematurely.
If the ignition was stwitched to ON without the motor running, that will
burn up points is a hurry.  I would replace the points and try again.

To check vacuum advance, pull vac. adv. unit out of the dist. With the motor
running and the vac adv hose plugged into your carb vac tap rev the engine to 
see if the vac adv unit is working properly.   

checking your mechanical advance is tougher, make sure that the distributor
advance travel isn't binding, and check to see if the springs are rusty,
if they are, they need replacing.

point systems work fine if everything is setup right.  I don't know why
your dwell changed 12 degrees, I'd say its a faulty points unit.  

------------------------------

From: Scott D Ballentine <sb7k+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 13:15:56 -0400
Subject: Re: O2_Sensor_on_307s

Excerpt: 25-Mar-96 O2_Sensor_on_307s by "Dal Allan"@mcimail.com 
>  - The LEDs flipped between Lean and Rich regularly, with no particular 
>    favoritism between coasting and accelerating. 
>  - I understood that the car is supposed to be in Closed Loop all the time 
>    but after leaving the store, it was in Open Loop for about 3 miles 
>    before going Closed Loop. 

As I understand it, when you first start the car, it should be in Open
loop mode until it gets warmed up.  The computer doesn't try to adjust
anything, like the fuel/air mixture, in this mode.  After a couple of
minutes, it should go into Closed loop mode, and then the computer tries
to adjust leaner or richer until it gets the best mix.

I had a friend of mine who had this sort of problem on his 85 LeSabre
(which had an Olds 307) about a year or two back.  It turned out that
there was a vacuum line into the carb that was disconnected.  The
computer would try to adjust leaner/richer, and basically it wasn't
doing any good since the line was disconnected.  So, the dash would
light up like a Christmas tree.  If you don't get anywhere replacing the
O2 sensor, try looking around for something like that.  Good Luck.

    -Scott Ballentine
     sb7k@andrew.cmu.edu
     Carnegie Mellon University
     School of Computer Science

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 13:31:26 -0400
Subject: Re: More Vista Cruiser Questions 

> >From what I remember of the old '69 and '72 Pontiacs in our family, both
> had stamped steel glove box covers. The latch assembly was pot metal and
> latched to a very thick shaped wire catch. I think prying on it would
> deform a lot of stuff and not get you very far... which I think is why
> they may have designed a difficult-but-not-impossible way of getting into
> the glove box after the idiot customer has lost the keys.
> 
> A locksmith might simply drill out the pot-metal lock cylinder, since you
> can unbolt and replace that after you get everything open.

When I bought my 70 '98, it didn't come with a truck key, and the glove box
(and truck) were locked.  I drove it down to the local locksmith.

He picked the glove box lock in ten seconds.  Pulled a number off the lock
cylinder, locked it up in some GM book.  Made me a couple of replacement keys.
I had him make me a spare key for the ignition, too.

It cost me eight bucks for everything.

Fortunately, the trunk lock and the glove box lock still used the same keys.
He said the trunk locks were really hard to pick.

My car was running, so I could drive it there.  House calls are much more
expensive.  You should be able to remove the dash and take it in.  I think
every glove box I've taken apart had all the screws on the inside.  I
don't think you will have much luck getting to it from the bottom, top, back,
or sides.

Once open, glove boxes are easy to remove, and that hole gives extra access to
the back of your radio, heating ducts, etc...

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | These opinions are strictly my own,           _____ 
lawrencr@gdls.com |       ____                               ____/__O__\____ 
(810) 825-8007    |   ___<____>======                       /===/-------\===\
                  |  <o_o_o_o_o_o> Tanks, for your support! \___\-------/___/

------------------------------

From: OLDZ 442 <S_WTJAMES@vaxa.clarion.edu>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 14:00:31 -0400
Subject: 442 

	OLDSMOBILE 442 "THE PERFECT TEN"
	WES JAMES (owner and operator)
	1986 Olds 442

------------------------------

From: clark@sh28.dseg.ti.com (Pat Clark 952-3776)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 14:11:18 -0400
Subject: Re: 442

> From oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca Mon Mar 25 12:09 CST 1996
> Date: 	Mon, 25 Mar 1996 14:00:31 -0400
> From: OLDZ 442 <S_WTJAMES@vaxa.clarion.edu>
> To: oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
> Subject: 442
> 
> 
> 	OLDSMOBILE 442 "THE PERFECT TEN"
> 	WES JAMES (owner and operator)
> 	1986 Olds 442
> 
> 

That's nice Wes, and ...?

          ___              ___        _________
         /   |            /   |      /         \
        /    |           /    |     |   ___    |
       /     |          /     |     |__|   |   |
      /      |         /      |           /   /   
     /       |        /       |          /   /   
    /   /|   |       /   /|   |         /   /
   /   /_|   |__    /   /_|   |__      /   /
  |             |  |             |    /   /
  |______     __|  |______     __|   /   /_____
         |   |            |   |     |          |      Pat Clark
         |___|            |___|     |__________|       69 442
						      400/400

   "Just your average 300+hp garage hogging, gas sucking, money pit"

------------------------------

From: "Bruce D. Brumm" <bdbrumm@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 17:31:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Vista Cruiser tailgate questions

Andrew C. Green wrote:
> 
> >I've got a few "operational" questions about my recently acquired '72 Vista
> >Cruiser...

snip...

> 
> >2) How do you open the rear gate? All there is on the outside is a key, which
> >seems to operate a solenoid of some sort when turned each way.

snip...

One of my fond rememberences of working on my 84' Cutlass Supreme
is that of door "rot" and a frozen (rusted solid!) door latch mechanism.

WD-40, penetrating oil, etc. were all to no avail.  The final trick took
less than five (5) minutes.  I borrowed my buddy's Milwaukee Sawz-All, 
put on a big blade, and cut the @#$% latch post off!  Worked like a 
charm.  To me, it was the solution of last resort.  Once the door was
open, I simply took a pair of Vise-grips and removed the rest of the
latch post and installed a new (from a parts car) latch post in its
place.  

Of course, I nearly cut off the end of a finger inside my
door on the sheet metal while installing another latch mechanism, but
that's another story! :)

My advice:  cut a latch post (or both) off and deal with it from there.
Once the door/tailgate is open, the rest is trivial, right?! :)

BTW:  Cutlass Salon wheels in '86 had 14"wheels...would like 15"
      442's, though!

Bruce D. Brumm
'75 Cutlass Supreme 350 (R.I.P. -- body rot)
'84 Cutlass Supreme 307-Y
'86 Cutlass Salon   307-Y

------------------------------

From: david.chontofalsky@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 14:55:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds Ninety Eight 

Ninety eights 65-67 used a 425 V8
and a THM 400.
David
1974 H/O
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Last Friday i was driving by this car that has been for sale for quite
some time. i finally stopped to look at it. It is a Olds Ninety Eight 4
door, light green with a/c. It l;ooked like a 65-66 but i am not sure.
It had the 4 headlights like my 65 F85 so i assume it was a 65-66. i
wasn't really interested in purchasing and i was in a rush so i didn't go
to the farmhouse and ask what they were asking for it. from a quick look
it seems like a solid car. It had the spinners on the hubcaps and a 3
speed tranny. Any idea what the engine would be? Just curious.

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott Nolan           Carleton University      
`Please God, give a bald guy a break, amen' -Homer (as in Simpson!) 
Email address: snolan@chat.carleton.ca
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: david.chontofalsky@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 14:59:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Distributor timing advance 

Is the advance plate sticking?  Did you forget to disconnect the vacuum hose
when you set it? checked it?  When you hook the dwell meter up (with the vacuum
hose connected) does the Dwell change at all when you rev the engine? if so the
dist should be replaced or rebushed.  What about your condenser wires are they
in the way to allow proper advance?  Is the set screw stripped?  (I would advise
Uniset Points, actually original for 1974 only but you can use them on prior
years)
David.Chontofalsky@MCMAIL.VANDERBILT.EDU
1974H/O
+++++++++++++++



messing around with my car this past weekend and discovered two
verydisturbing things. First, my dwell was off 12 deg even though I had set it 3
wks
ago! Second, no matter how far I reved the engine up (approx 2k), the timing
didn't advance a bit. Took the cap and rotor off to take a look at the advance.
Everything looked fine and moved freely. Anybody have any ideas on what causes 
these two problems and what I should look for? I think I might be better off   
dumping the old distributor ( putting it in a box and storing it for later) and
getting a electronic one. If I did this anyone have any model recommendations  
(and  prices)?


          ___              ___        _________
         /   |            /   |      /         \
        /    |           /    |     |   ___    |
       /     |          /     |     |__|   |   |
      /      |         /      |           /   /   
     /       |        /       |          /   /   
    /   /|   |       /   /|   |         /   /
   /   /_|   |__    /   /_|   |__      /   /
  |             |  |             |    /   /
  |______     __|  |______     __|   /   /_____
         |   |            |   |     |          |      Pat Clark
         |___|            |___|     |__________|       69 442
            400/400

   "Just your average 300+hp garage hogging, gas sucking, money pit"

------------------------------

From: david.chontofalsky@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 15:03:11 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: O2_Sensor_on_307s 

It should be dither screwed into the passenger side exhaust manifold or threaded
into the header pipe between the cat.conv. and the exhaust manifold.  not in the
block.
David
+++++++++++++++


Allan wrote:
> 
> As owner of an anemic 307s that power wagons, I need some assistance.
> 
> My wife keeps telling me the SERVICE ENGINE SOON light comes on for her 'all
> the time' but when I've got the car out it never seems to happen, but....
> Last week while cruising along the highways at a steady 60mph, the light
> came on, stayed on for 15-20 seconds, and then disappeared.
> 
> I have access to an OTC Scan Monitor 4000E, so used it to do some analysis.
> 
> Not being familiar with this thing, it was a case of reading the manual and
> experimenting. There were no stored codes. However, while sitting at Idle, I
> did get a Code 13 indicating the Oxygen Sensor may be bad (the OTC suggested
> cleaning the terminals). When driving, there were no warnings and I did not
> see the code again, and here is what happened:
> 
>  - The LEDs flipped between Lean and Rich regularly, with no particular
>    favoritism between coasting and accelerating.
>  - I understood that the car is supposed to be in Closed Loop all the time
>    but after leaving the store, it was in Open Loop for about 3 miles before
>    going Closed Loop.
> 
> A quick look at the service manual and it seemed like all that had to be
> done to find the O2 sensor was pop the hood and it would be at the back of
> the block on the passenger side. If it is, I'm still looking. You'd think a
> purple wire would be a dead giveaway but all the harnesses are wrapped in
> plastic coils so finding a particular color is nowhere near as easy as it
> used to be.
> 
> It does not help that this block is painted black, and there is no contrast
> anywhere when trying to trace thing.
> 
> Any assistance would be appreciated.
> 
> Dal


Sorry Dal,

I can't help you but I know how you feel! You have finally joined the club. This
is why I no longer drive computer controlled 
cars. They suck! They only advise I can give you is to get yourself a car from
when cars where built to last.


Willie
'57 Olds Super 88

------------------------------

From: <Sherry_Soball@Douglas.BC.CA>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 15:10:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Removing woodgrain?

> 
> HEAT GUN!
> DAvid
> 
You wrote:> 
> 
> anyone here ever successfully removed the vinyl woodgrain from a car? 
> 
> The Fisher body service manual says to peel it off, with the aid of heat if
> necessary; do they mean a hair dryer close up or a heat gun at a distance?
> 
> 
Yes, we had occasion to remove and reapply vinyl woodgrain on our '77
Pontiac Grand Safari wagon.  A hair dryer will work -- I would be skeptical
about using a heat gun because of the tremendous heat they put out -- you
don't want to melt the vinyl or you could wind up with an awful mess.  Good
luck!
> 
> 


- -- 

------------------------------

From: OLDZ 442 <S_WTJAMES@vaxa.clarion.edu>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 15:45:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Vista Cruiser tailgate questions 

Bruce-
Were you the one who wrote that your 307-Y had a roller cam. Was that factory?
Im sorry to here about the 75 going to hell in a handbasket...
Here in town where I attend college there is a cherry 1987 Olds Salon.
T-Tops and all! It looks great! Im glad to hear you know that there are 
15 inch 442 wheels and their not just a myth. I have seen them before but
cant get a set of them anywhere. The dealership says theyll run me $1500.
They can keep them forever!
Later
"The Perfect Ten"
Wes James

------------------------------

From: OLDZ 442 <S_WTJAMES@vaxa.clarion.edu>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 15:36:32 -0400
Subject: Re: 442 

Thanks Clark! I really enjoy seeing that 442 roll onto my screen. I was
glad to see it again!

------------------------------

From: John Schmich <schmich@AZStarNet.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 16:01:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Re[2]: 1986 OLDS 442 

At 03:14 AM 3/25/96 -0400, you wrote:
>
>     I thought it was an '84 you were working on putting a new engine in?  
>     Or is the engine '84 and the car '86?  Now I'm confused, weren't you 
>     also putting an '84 engine in your brother's car too?
>  
     That's right, I am putting in an 84 block in place of my original 86.
I just took the 86 motor out and will be putting in th 84 soon.  I did this
because I wanted the 5A heads and a hydraulic camshaft.  Yeah we just bought
another 84 block for my brother's car.   Sorry about the confusion, I'm just
confussed myself! 

>     Got the new engine together yet?  How did that Edelbrock intake fit?

     All we have left to do is put on the oil pan and the intake manifold
and we are done.  A week ago, I took the Edelbrock into the shop and placed
it on the block.  It seemed to fit but it will fill the gaps when the gasket
is on.  The manifold has all the holes for the emissions stuff, but some are
in different places.  I don't know if you have ever taken off your carb but
you can see individual holes down the intake for the various barrels.  The
way it is set up on the Edelbrock is to chambers side by side.  We have to
find a different gasket so the fuel and air don't restricted by a stock
gasket on this performance manifold.  I don't know how hard it is going to
be but I'm looking.   Other than that it looks like it will work.  Just wait
a couple more days.  BTW I was surprised to find that the intake manifold
off my 86 block, is aluminum.  That's weird because the one off the 84 was
heavy as hell.
>     
>     I've seen the "dual exhaust" in the JCW catalog too.  Note that it 
>     doesn't have catalytic converters too.  I think your best bet is to 
>     have the duals custom bent.

     Actually  I looked into it but around my area it is illegal for any
muffler shop to build a dual exhaust for a car that came with single exhaust
originally.  Its some EPA thing but what's funny is that the emmisions
control center will let you have dual exhaust.

>     
>     Do those headers look like they'll fit right in where the exh. 
>     manifolds were?  Do they hook up to the existing exhaust or is the 
>     exit at a different location than the manifolds?
>
     It looks like they will fit between the sides of the fire wall, and the
block but the length is longer than stock.  If you have ever seen, the stock
exhaust manifolds have a pipe connecting each other around the oil pan area.
This is where they meet into the pipe going to the cat.  The headers length
permitts the use of the stock crossover pipe so if you won't those headers,
a true dual exhaust is your only option.  Otherwise the next place to have
an intersection is behind the tranny.  I might as well just have it dual and
get the performance.   

Later
Brandon

>     Thanks!
>     
>     Tom L.
>
>______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
>Subject: Re: 1986 OLDS 442
>Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
>Date:    3/24/96 10:14 PM
>
>     To all the late model, 307" guys out there, Tom L., Wes, Dink, Ed, etc.
>Just took the '86 motor out of my car today.  Boy is it a pain with all 
>those vaccum lines, and electrical stuff running every which way around 
>there.  When it was out we took a look and sure enough, the 86 Y motor has a 
>roller cam in it.  As for the intake manifold, it looks pretty good.  Just 
>need to make some minor changes like adapters for the various valves, 
>sending units because the holes in the maniflold are bigger than stock, no 
>biggie.  We saved a lot of time by doing in our garage rather than at the 
>shop, but it still looks like at least two weeks unless my brother can get 
>it in before his spring break starts, March 30th.  Now all that has to be 
>taken care of is finding a true dual exhaust kit for the new headers. 
>JCWhitney claims that they have a dual exhaust kit for the Cutlass but that 
>the tailpipes exit before the rear wheels, WHAT THE... 
>     More to come...
>     
>Brandon
>     
>     
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: gord@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Gordon R. Kennedy)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 16:02:37 -0400
Subject: Olds AM/FM flippin' dial radio ... 

Bob Barry posted a wonderful story about his recently-acquired 1972 Vista
Cruiser yesterday, and mentioned that the VC had one of these Delco radios.

Bob went on to say that "this one is for sale".  

Bob, do you know if that radio could/would/should fit into the stock
radio location on a 1970 442?  I seem to recall that you parked the "new"
VC beside a 1970 Cutlass "S", so I'm hoping you might know.

Since my 442 has only the AM radio now, I'm interested in upgrading ...
but I really want to keep it stock too !

Regards

Gord Kennedy      1970 442 W-30     gord@spartan.ac.brocku.ca

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 16:36:35 -0400
Subject: Vac. pump

So, I was replacing the master cylinder on the truck this weekend, and as per
instructions, was trying to 'bench bleed' the MC before installation, cuz you
know the 'warranty void if this procedure not followed'. etc. 10-15 minutes of
poking and such had still not removed much air from the beast. This was most
annoying.

So, I had out my trusty vacuum pump, for assistance in bleeding the brake
system. I held the vacuum line up to the MC's outlet, and within 10 seconds,
had juice flowing. Problem solved.

Also, it was rather handy for removing the juice from the MC reservoir before
beginning brake work- vac pump sucks on jar [glass- plastic peanut butter jur
just collapses!] which sucks on the juice thru a clear plastic tube. Worked
great. Way nicer than the Turkey Baster I used to use to get the old juice out
of there...

this particular electric vacuum pump came from MSU Salvage for about $25. I
guess a hand-operated unit would work, too. Anyhow, I'd readily recommend
getting one for general purposes. Now that I have one and know it works,
testing all those pesky little vacuum motion devices can be done readily!



- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 16:37:48 -0400
Subject: 1967 engines

Anyone ever hear of a 1967 330 or 425 engine [except for Toronado, of course]
using the modern 39 degree cam bank angle?

- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 16:41:12 -0400
Subject: 66 Toro P.Ant'a Switch

For the feller who was a-lookin' a while back, I have a '66 Toro power antenna
switch. It's out, tested, works good. It awaits your attention, before it
becomes lost in the piles in the garage... [the race car 425 assembly is about
to begin].
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: Rocketeer <bparker@nmsu.edu>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 17:46:02 -0400
Subject: Misc

Which Drew out there was the one interested on the lead for a '66 Cutlass
Convertible?, I have the number if you are still interested...

Also, does anyone have a decent set of the bolt-on Super Stock II Center
Caps cluttering up their garage they want to sell?

Boyd
1966 4 speed Cutlass Convertible
1970 442 Convertible (Under Construction)

------------------------------

From: "Jeffrey C. Hunter" <jchunter@xcelco.on.ca>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 16:04:03 -0400
Subject: Re: More Vista Cruiser Questions 

>2) My Chilton's manual lists the disc brake size from 1970 thru 1980 as
>10.88", *except* for 1972, which they list as 11.74". Is this for real, and
>should I swap these brakes onto my '70 SX?

My Chilton Manual says that the '71-'73 Vista Cruiser has 11" discs, while
the custom cruiser has 11-29/32" discs.

Im confused now.

Jeff Hunter
jchunter@xcelco.on.ca

------------------------------

From: Roger Heath <RHEATH@worldbank.org>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 18:06:28 -0400
Subject: RE: 1967 engines

          >Anyone ever hear of a 1967 330 or 425 engine [except for=
=20
          >Toronado, of course] using the modern 39 degree cam bank a=
ngle?
          >Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
         =20
         =20
            Chris,
                    There was an article in Journey with Olds, Februa=
ry=20
          1995, by Karl D. Sarpolis, Jr. 1156 South Lavergne Ave., Wo=
rth,=20
          Illinois, 60482 on Olds camshafts. He gave a listing from 1=
964 to=20
          67 of (supposedly) all camshaft specs. The headings were:
           Year, Part#, Overlap =B0, Duration =B0 for inlet and exhau=
st, Lift=20
          in inches for inlet and exhaust, and Engine Application.=
=20
          Nothing on camshaft bank angles, but I guess he would know =
if you=20
          contacted him. If you need any of the above info, (can't im=
agine=20
          you would) I put it on a spread sheet, (which on sorting in=
to=20
          various categories showed some errors) and will send you th=
e=20
          file.
         =20
          Roger Heath, 71 Delta Royale Convertible
         =20

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 18:29:29 -0400
Subject: RE: Vac. pump

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB1A72.3882A2E0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Those vacumn pumps are fantastic but I'll tell you for bleeding brakes =
hunt down a compressed air bleeding apparatus (tank). Nothing makes =
bleeding brakes faster or easier.

- ----------
From: 	Chris Brown Witt[SMTP:wittchri@pilot.msu.edu]
Sent: 	Monday, March 25, 1996 3:36 PM
To: 	oldslist
Subject: 	Vac. pump

So, I was replacing the master cylinder on the truck this weekend, and =
as per
instructions, was trying to 'bench bleed' the MC before installation, =
cuz you
know the 'warranty void if this procedure not followed'. etc. 10-15 =
minutes of
poking and such had still not removed much air from the beast. This was =
most
annoying.

So, I had out my trusty vacuum pump, for assistance in bleeding the =
brake
system. I held the vacuum line up to the MC's outlet, and within 10 =
seconds,
had juice flowing. Problem solved.

Also, it was rather handy for removing the juice from the MC reservoir =
before
beginning brake work- vac pump sucks on jar [glass- plastic peanut =
butter jur
just collapses!] which sucks on the juice thru a clear plastic tube. =
Worked
great. Way nicer than the Turkey Baster I used to use to get the old =
juice out
of there...

this particular electric vacuum pump came from MSU Salvage for about =
$25. I
guess a hand-operated unit would work, too. Anyhow, I'd readily =
recommend
getting one for general purposes. Now that I have one and know it works,
testing all those pesky little vacuum motion devices can be done =
readily!



- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu




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------------------------------

From: tiberi@atlas.co.uk (John)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 18:51:54 -0400
Subject: unsubscibe oldsmobile-digest 

unsubscibe oldsmobile-digest

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 20:11:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Distributor timing advance

The problems Pat is having with the distributor in his '69 sound strangely
familiar to the ones I had with my '68. Mine would just eat points
constantly and the dwell would always slip. In addition, mine would give
different readings with different dwell meters. I'll see if I can recall
everything we did (those who have been here for a while like Andy and Wes
will recall all of this). 

I was using various brands of Uniset points (I think we tried Standard
Blue Streak, Delco and Echlin) with no success. The advance weights seemed
a little tight so we pulled the distributor and made sure they were freed
up and lubed. We checked all of the wiring because we thought the resistor
wire might be bad which would give full 12v. to the points causing them to
fry. Apparently the gap on points can change once they get hot so we 
checked for a bum temp sensor and a hidden overheating condition. We had 
put in a new coil early on and had ruled that out as a cause but decided 
to try another one anyway, this time a Delco. Everything we did would 
help for a little while but eventually it would break down within a few 
weeks and be hard to start, have no power, and misfire. Generally it 
acted like the timing had gone way off, but the points would be burned 
when you examined them.

Finally about a year ago we decided to give it one last try and installed 
another new coil (Blue Streak this time) and new points (also Blue 
Streak, heavy duty combined with condensor). Problem solved and it has 
not returned. The only obvious conclusion was something with the coils 
but I still find it hard to believe that there were 2 bad ones in a row. 
But since it hasn't come back I don't want to think too hard about it! 
This was a very frustrating problem that no one could ever accurately 
diagnose. Should have been dead-simple but it took over a year to 
resolve. Good luck!

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 11:40:22 -0400
Subject: Re: O2_Sensor_on_307s and Muffler Reccomendation 

        >My wife keeps telling me the SERVICE ENGINE SOON light comes on 
        >for her 'all the time' but when I've got the car out it never 
        >seems to happen, but.... 
        
        
        I had a similar problem on an 85 Calais Indy Pace Car replica 
        (with that stump-puller "Iron Duke" 4-banger).  These 
        intermittent problems are frustrating.  I solved the problem by 
        selling the car.
        
        Seriously, there's a company called Diacom which makes software 
        for monitoring all the telemetry from the onboard computers on 
        GM and Chrysler cars.  Their software is intended to be loaded 
        on a laptop and includes the cable for plugging into the 
        under-dash data connector.  This package is much more capable 
        that testers such as the OTC unit, as it allows the real-time 
        display of all the sensor outputs and computer commands while 
        you drive.  The software also has a recording feature such that 
        when the intermittent problem occurs, hitting the spacebar on 
        the laptop will record the next 30 seconds to disk.  This allows 
        you to later play it back and look for anomalies.
        
        On a different topic, I've got the Dynomax mufflers on my 70 
        W-30 and they sound great.  The car is quiet but throaty at idle 
        and sounds wonderful at WOT.  I had to press the 70 into service 
        for daily driving for a while, the driveshaft from my 85 Chevy 
        crewcab dually passed me on the road last week.....
        
        Joe Padavano
        jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
        
        66 442
        68 W-30
        69 H/O
        70 W-30

------------------------------

From: dawn@rtd.com (dawn lively)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 20:29:19 -0400
Subject: Re: unsubscibe oldsmobile-digest 

>unsubscibe oldsmobile-digest

------------------------------

From: YourUserId@together.net (Ed Racicot)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 22:49:49 -0400
Subject: New Member 

        Hi to all you Olds fans,

        Im new to the net and Having my share of problems navagating around.
        But to the business at hand...My current Olds is a 68 Toronado that I 
        purchased two years and about $5000. ago. $900. for the car and the
        rest has been spent on fixing the body and some minor engine work.
        I did a top engine rebuild last summer (cam,lifters,carb,ect).
        I learned the hard way about the Toros' hood clearance limitations 
        once I had purchased a "Performer" intake from Jegs and had to send
it back
        to them cause I didnt want to cut a hole in my hood.  My brother, also
        a olds guy, still shi-- on me for not poping a hole in her.
Unfortunately
        I know as much about engines as I do about computers, just enough to
get in 
        trouble.  I have been a Olds enthuis since I was a kid so I have dealer
        brochures for some of the 70's and 80's.  The Toro is my 18th Olds,
unless
        I forgot a couple in my count.  This year Ginger, my Toro, is getting a 
        new oil pump and a resealing of her back window, that leaks like a siv.
        I am also having shifting problems that are related to my vacuum
routing.
        If anyone out there can help me out on this on thanks.
        


        Anyone out there using "Rocket-Ed"???

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 23:02:59 -0400
Subject: '67 425 motor & tranny 

Tried sending this the other day, but it looks like it must be floating in
Cyberspace somewhere.  Anyway...

I'm thinking of purchasing a '67 98 Holiday Sedan as a parts car to repair
some problems on my Coupe (like a bashed in fender).  There's some good parts
there that I can use and then either sell or scrap what's left.  One of the
things I thought could sell are the 425 (4bbl) & THM tranny.  Anybody
interested?  What are they going for?  Car is located in Pittsburgh area.
 Hasn't been on the road since '87.  Car is a 1 owner w/50K original miles.
 Had minor carb fire around '87.  Has been repaired mechanically and is
running.  Is the engine & tranny worth anything as they are, or am I getting
involved with a white elepant?  He wants a little more than the car's worth
and my idea is that by selling the powertrain it would make up the difference
of what I'd like to really give him for it.  Help me out guys.

Paul Hartlieb

'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe

------------------------------

From: VERBAL ASSASSIN <S_WTJAMES@vaxa.clarion.edu>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 23:42:11 -0400
Subject: SPOILER/CUTLASS 

Where can I find a spoiler for a 84-87 Cutlass?
It would actually be a HURST OLDS spoiler. I cant find them in a boneyard
anywhere. I can get a reproduction but id like to beat the $250 price tag
for one. 
Also on the note of looking for things...Where can I find reproduction Olds
stickers..ie:engine labels, tags, etc...
thanks again to anyone who answers my numerous questions, Im new to the
line and I love it!
later
WES"442:the perfect ten"JAMES

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <jlabay@Phoenix.kent.edu>
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 00:39:58 -0400
Subject: Re: 1986 OLDS 442

The flowmaster on my Z/28 is fairly quiet at idle and very loud at 
cruising speed. With 3.73 gears and no overdrive the engine is really 
turning sme high rpm's at highway speed. However mine does not fade out 
under acceleration. It sounds like a pro stock funny car taking off 
under acceleration :)...very loud! If a flowmaster is what you choose I 
would stick with a 3 chamber if you want it on the quieter side. Mine is 
a 3 chamber. I know a few Mustangs that have 2 chamber ones and they are 
a lot louder than me. 

Jason Labay                                            jlabay@phoenix.kent.edu
Akron, Ohio                                            xdsg80a@prodigy.com    
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25                                                          
1988 Camaro Z/28 CFI 305...soon to be LT4                                     
 > 
> Hey Wes,
> 
>      My brother just put a Flowmaster on his 85 Salon and it is really loud
> at idle and loud at cruisin' speed.  It sounds really tuff when light on the
> gas but during hard acceleration, it tends to die out quickly.
> 
> Brandon

------------------------------

From: "Bruce D. Brumm" <bdbrumm@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 13:27:31 -0400
Subject: Re: New Member

Ed Racicot wrote:
> 
>         Hi to all you Olds fans,
> 
>         Im new to the net and Having my share of problems navagating around.
>         But to the business at hand...

snip...

>         new oil pump and a resealing of her back window, that leaks like a siv.
>         I am also having shifting problems that are related to my vacuum
> routing.
>         If anyone out there can help me out on this on thanks.
> 
> 
>         Anyone out there using "Rocket-Ed"???

A bead of clear silicon caulking applied around the exterior perimeter
of the rear window is a "quick & dirty" way of solving the leaking
window problem. (worked on my '75 Cutlass and you couldn't even see that
the caulk had been applied.)  The best way, of course, is to remove the
trim and window and re-install it with new gaskets & sealant.

BTW: have any brochures you'd like to part with for either an '84 Cutlass
Supreme or an '86 Cutlass Salon? Let me know...

Bruce D. Brumm (bdbrumm@ix.netcom.com)
Network & Systems Admin.
LDM Technologies, Inc.
Troy, MI

'75 Cutlass Supreme 350 (R.I.P. -- body rot)
'84 Cutlass Supreme 307-Y
'86 Cutlass Salon   307-Y

------------------------------

From: Redman@why.net
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 10:34:10 -0400
Subject: G Heads

  I am scared to hear the answer, but are G Heads any good?  I have a 68
425/455 crank.   Please let me know how bad of shape I am in.  Thanks...

------------------------------

From: "Bruce D. Brumm" <bdbrumm@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 13:27:31 -0400
Subject: Re: New Member

Ed Racicot wrote:
> 
>         Hi to all you Olds fans,
> 
>         Im new to the net and Having my share of problems navagating around.
>         But to the business at hand...

snip...

>         new oil pump and a resealing of her back window, that leaks like a siv.
>         I am also having shifting problems that are related to my vacuum
> routing.
>         If anyone out there can help me out on this on thanks.
> 
> 
>         Anyone out there using "Rocket-Ed"???

A bead of clear silicon caulking applied around the exterior perimeter
of the rear window is a "quick & dirty" way of solving the leaking
window problem. (worked on my '75 Cutlass and you couldn't even see that
the caulk had been applied.)  The best way, of course, is to remove the
trim and window and re-install it with new gaskets & sealant.

BTW: have any brochures you'd like to part with for either an '84 Cutlass
Supreme or an '86 Cutlass Salon? Let me know...

Bruce D. Brumm (bdbrumm@ix.netcom.com)
Network & Systems Admin.
LDM Technologies, Inc.
Troy, MI

'75 Cutlass Supreme 350 (R.I.P. -- body rot)
'84 Cutlass Supreme 307-Y
'86 Cutlass Salon   307-Y

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 11:22:47 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Vac. pump 

Is someone trying to debug problems with sending mail or what?  Could this 
poster check with their System Administrators about this?  Band width is 
precious, after all.

Thanks,
David Brown
dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu    (312) 702-9157
"Oldsmobile - powerful roadsters with big V8s"
- -----------------------------------


- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB1A72.3882A2E0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Those vacumn pumps are fantastic but I'll tell you for bleeding brakes =
hunt down a compressed air bleeding apparatus (tank). Nothing makes =
bleeding brakes faster or easier.


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From: Jason Labay <jlabay@Phoenix.kent.edu>
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 00:39:58 -0400
Subject: Re: 1986 OLDS 442

The flowmaster on my Z/28 is fairly quiet at idle and very loud at 
cruising speed. With 3.73 gears and no overdrive the engine is really 
turning sme high rpm's at highway speed. However mine does not fade out 
under acceleration. It sounds like a pro stock funny car taking off 
under acceleration :)...very loud! If a flowmaster is what you choose I 
would stick with a 3 chamber if you want it on the quieter side. Mine is 
a 3 chamber. I know a few Mustangs that have 2 chamber ones and they are 
a lot louder than me. 

Jason Labay                                            jlabay@phoenix.kent.edu
Akron, Ohio                                            xdsg80a@prodigy.com    
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25                                                          
1988 Camaro Z/28 CFI 305...soon to be LT4                                     
 > 
> Hey Wes,
> 
>      My brother just put a Flowmaster on his 85 Salon and it is really loud
> at idle and loud at cruisin' speed.  It sounds really tuff when light on the
> gas but during hard acceleration, it tends to die out quickly.
> 
> Brandon

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 10:59:47 -0400
Subject: RE: Vac. pump

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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Well it looks sort of like a small BBQ propane tank (like about half the =
size) with provisions for air fittings on the top. You then hook it up =
to your bleed screw as you would the vacumn pump that Chris Witt =
mentioned. Then you hook your air hose on the other side and the air =
passing through the tank creates a low pressure zone in the tank and =
sucks your brake fluid through your brakeline at a very fast rate. You =
must also have a small reservoir of brake fluid mounted on your master =
cylinder to keep up with this thing. It works very fast and I've never =
seen anything that will come close to getting as much air out of a line =
no matter how many bends or air traps the line may have in it.

- ----------
From: 	Proietto, F.[SMTP:proietto@dow.on.doe.ca]
Sent: 	Tuesday, March 26, 1996 8:11 AM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	RE: Vac. pump

>Those vacumn pumps are fantastic but I'll tell you for bleeding brakes =
hunt=20
down a compressed air bleeding apparatus (tank). Nothing makes bleeding=20
brakes faster or easier.


Hey Chris Urban, explain this thing. Can someone with a compressor =
achieve=20
the same thing, what's involved?


Regards
Fernando Proietto





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From: GUEISEPPI THE BARBER <JJF96@uno.cc.geneseo.edu>
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 13:25:10 -0400
Subject: Re: More Vista Cruiser Questions

first about the glove box lock...   try the trunk key in the lock...  
that should open it.  if it does not...  check you local locksmiths.  My 
father's a locksmith and would charge about 5 or 6 dollars and make a 
key for the glove box from scratch.  don't futz around with hinges if it 
seems difficult or hard to come apart or put back together.  if you have 
lock "?"'s   i'll ask my dad for ya.                                     
    --joe

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 13:38:43 -0400
Subject: Re: More Vista Cruiser Questions 

>first about the glove box lock...   try the trunk key in the lock...  
>that should open it.  if it does not...  check you local locksmiths.  My 
>father's a locksmith and would charge about 5 or 6 dollars and make a 
>key for the glove box from scratch.

(slaps forehead) Oh, DUH! Yes, that's right... For '72, the door key
also operated the glovebox and tailgate. It should be pretty trivial
to pop out one of the door lock cylinders, and any locksmith or GM
dealer can disassemble that to produce a key that matches the lock
discs inside. As someone else mentioned, there may also be a key code
stamped right on it...
- --
Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 04:44:50 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Removing woodgrain? 

     Umm... what about trying bug and tar remover?  Or possibly engine 
     degreaser?  I've had success with both before.


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Removing woodgrain?
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    3/25/96 9:44 PM

Well, I'll have both on hand, just in case the hair dryer doesn't work. 
     
What did you find underneath? Was it a gluey mess, or was there nice and 
shiny paint when all the adhesive came off with the vinyl? (yeah, right, 
*I'm* dreaming again...) I wasn't thinking about replacing the vinyl, but 
rather removing it altogether and polishing whatever paint is underneath. 
     
And about that inevitable adhesive that will remain, how could that be 
removed, chemically, without damaging the paint? I don't even have enough 
patience to deal with the sticky residue when you peel a price tag off of a 
glass or a bowl, so dealing with a whole wagon's worth just isn't my bag. 
     

------------------------------

From: david.chontofalsky@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 08:51:00 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Olds AM/FM flippin' dial radio 

Paul,
I am originally from Allentown Pa.  and traveled to about every salvage yard in
Eastern PA.  Have you ever gone to FRITZ's AUTO SALES near Reading?  HE is quite
an opinionated butt head, but he has some real neat stuff.  He sells the whole
car not just parts.  He had a few nifty items like a 1958 Edsel Citation
Convertible, 1961 Chrysler 300 (letter series) conv. and1960 Lincoln Mark Conv
coupe(the last year for convertible coupe') etc.  It was always fun to roam his
yard.
David.chontofalsky@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu



********************************************

>I'm in Southeastern PA (Lebanon area) - would be interested in where that
>boneyard is at -- always looking for new ones.  One of the cars is always
>needing something - even if it doesn't know it yet.  How 'bout sharing your
>secret.  Is he open to the public?
>
>Paul Hartlieb
>
>'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible
>'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe

Paul,

Check my earlier posting to Conrad...it's about an hour and 15 minutes up
I-81 from you, off exit 43.  As memory serves me, he MAY have had a '67 98
sedan.  Better call first...enjoy!


- -Gregg, the '67 Toro guy

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #129
********************************

