Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    4/20/96  4:02 PM
Priority: Normal
BCC: Jeff Easton at ZDS_ZDS
TO: oldsmobile-digest@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Subject: oldsmobile-digest V1 #153
------------------------------- Message Contents -------------------------------
     
oldsmobile-digest         Saturday, 20 April 1996      Volume 01 : Number 153
     
     
----------------------------------------------------------------------
     
From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net> 
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 15:26:55 -0300
Subject: Re: '69-'72 GM A Body Disc Brake Conversion
     
At 10:58 AM 4/19/96 -0300, you wrote:
     
     
> Here's my problem: I need to know what is required to convert a '70 Buick 
> Skylark (Ok, pretend it's an Olds Cutlass B;) from drum brakes to a disc 
> brake setup.  
     
>find any year 64-72 skylark/cutlass/chevelle/tempest with front disk brakes.
     
**ALSO Monte Carlo or LeMans from the same years (64-72). 
     
>1) master cylinder and booster
>2) proportioning valve
>3) spindle/disk/caliber assembly.
     
**Don't forget the disc brake backing plates.  
     
You can also do this swap by buying a kit; there are a few companies that 
make them.  Kits are more expensive than scrounging the parts at the 
junkyard, though.  You could also buy new calipers at the auto parts store, 
and get the spindles, backing plates, and discs at the junkyard.  You can 
use your existing booster and master cylinder, but you will have to get an 
proportioning valve.
- --
Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme 
dpauliso@metrolink.net
     
------------------------------
     
From: Robert Yasczak <VJTD@grove.iup.edu> 
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 16:01:17 -0300 
Subject: Re: dash speakers
     
Thanks for the much needed info on how to get the speakers out.  I think that I 
am going to stick 3 1\2in. Pioneers in the holes.  I can get them from my 
father fo 25% under dealer cost, so I think that this is the way to go.  I am 
going to try and keep the whole system Pioneer.  I have already replaced the 
back speakers with 4 by 10's, and plan on putting an in-dash CD player in over 
summer break.  
     
Thanks again for the help.
	
			Robb Yasczak      vjtd@grove.iup.edu 
			1969 Cutlass
			1969 442
			1976 442
			1985 Cutlass
     
------------------------------
     
From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net> 
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 16:11:19 -0300 
Subject: Re: Movie, Cutlasses
     
At 12:41 PM 4/19/96 -0300, you wrote:
     
>On another note the movie "milk Money" starring Meg Ryan also shhowcased 
>another Cutlass convertible.  Unfortunately it gets flamed..
>
>
>
>Cary Yamamoto                                 
     
     
That was Melanie Griffith in that movie...
     
The movie "Demolition Man" with Wesley Snipes and Sylvester Stallone also 
had a Cutlass in it...'71 or '72, I think.
- --
Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme 
dpauliso@metrolink.net
     
------------------------------
     
From: urbanch@magi.com (Chris Urban) 
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 16:19:30 -0300 
Subject: Re: Mid-engine Cutlass, etc. 
     
No I beleive he is referring to an aluminim valley tray that Mondello sells 
and fits under the intake. This is used when you are using aftermarket 
seperate intake gaskets not the stock valley pan. The stock valley pan is 
supposed to be prone to intake leaks.
>
>
>Valley tray?  Would that be the valley pan gasket (that's what the auto 
>parts store called it...)?  What are the pros/cons of using it over just two 
>separate intake gaskets?  Those valley pans sure are alot harder to put in 
>than separate gaskets!  I just replaced my intake gaskets with a valley pan, 
>which is what was in there.  I think I have a coolant leak on the front side 
>of the coolant crossover, between the manifold and the right side head, so I 
>have to pull it apart again and re-gasket.  Separate gaskets would be alot 
>easier to put in this time (both valley pan and separate gaskets are 
available).
>--
>Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme 
>dpauliso@metrolink.net
>
>
>
>
     
------------------------------
     
From: Rocket Boy <clint@darklair.com> 
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 23:26:29 -0300 
Subject: Re: Movie, Cutlasses
     
> The movie "Demolition Man" with Wesley Snipes and Sylvester Stallone also 
> had a Cutlass in it...'71 or '72, I think.
     
That car was a '70 442 W30.   They built three for the movie and 
fortunately the only damage to all three was that one got 12 bullet holes 
in the winshield.   I have an article in PHR from a couple years ago about 
this.   In 18 days the car crew for that movie located 3 basket cases and 
restored them to factory specs.   VERY impressive.   8^)
     
Also all the cars in the background were GM concept vehicles, and the cop 
cars were Oldsmobiles!!!   I always thought that the scene with the 442 
rising up through the floor of the future Olds dealership (yes it was an 
Olds dealership) would make a great commercial.  IT would also be a nice 
way of apologising for teh horrible "It's not your father's Oldsmobile" 
ad campaign.
     
FYI GM specifically featured Oldsmobile in the movie predominantly to try 
and revive sales.
     
Clint
     
                          _________
Rocket Boy!             _|_ _\\____|_     '81 Cutlass Supreme 
clint@darklair.com       |___//____|            by Oldsmobile
     
------------------------------
     
From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net> 
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 16:28:19 -0300 
Subject: valley tray
     
At 04:19 PM 4/19/96 -0300, you wrote:
>No I beleive he is referring to an aluminim valley tray that Mondello sells 
>and fits under the intake. This is used when you are using aftermarket 
>seperate intake gaskets not the stock valley pan. The stock valley pan is 
>supposed to be prone to intake leaks.
     
     
YES, guaranteed to leak, I think, is more like it.  I'll have to get me one 
of those trays and go with the separate intake gaskets.  How can I get a 
Mondello catalog?  Got a phone #?
     
Thanks again!  
- --
Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme 
dpauliso@metrolink.net
     
------------------------------
     
From: John Schmich <schmich@AZStarNet.com> 
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 16:31:24 -0300 
Subject: Re: How to remove G-Body dash... 
     
At 01:37 PM 4/19/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Do you know if the actual markings and indicator are still in there, or 
>is it empty and they just covered the hole with the plastic piece?
>
>--Dan
>
     I don't know really.  I'm sure Oldsmobile did the cheapest thing
possibly so they probably didn't waste there time and money making three 
different tachs.  So my guess would be that it is still behind there.  
     I would find taking the dashboard apart one heck of a job.  I hope I
never have to.
     
Brandon
     
------------------------------
     
From: John Schmich <schmich@AZStarNet.com> 
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 16:49:28 -0300 
Subject: Re: dash speakers 
     
At 04:01 PM 4/19/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Thanks for the much needed info on how to get the speakers out.  I think that I
>am going to stick 3 1\2in. Pioneers in the holes.  I can get them from my 
>father fo 25% under dealer cost, so I think that this is the way to go.  I am 
>going to try and keep the whole system Pioneer.  I have already replaced the 
>back speakers with 4 by 10's, and plan on putting an in-dash CD player in over 
>summer break.  
>
>Thanks again for the help.
>	
>			Robb Yasczak      vjtd@grove.iup.edu 
>			1969 Cutlass
>			1969 442
>			1976 442
>			1985 Cutlass
>
>
     I don't know if anyone else had to do this but a bought a pair of 3.5"
Kicker Impulse for the front speakers on my 86 Salon.  They are a coaxial so 
the top wouldn't sit under the speaker cover.  Being in the confined space 
they are, I didn't really want to make modifications to the speaker setting 
area.  So I took a pair of wire clips and started cutting the circular grate 
part of the cover.  (Yes, just the sound of this is making some sick.)  Then 
I took my Dremel tool and sanded down the rough edges.  After I was done, 
the cover had the whole circular part cut out.  Actually, it turned out A 
LOT better then I thought.  The circle has a nice cut that some people can't 
even tell it's not stock.  After sanding, the inside didn't look discolored 
at all. 
      If you have a dash mat, that's good because it keeps the dust and
harsh UV rays out.  
     This is a good trick if you have a set of coaxials that won't fit.  But
I am in NO way saying that this is 100% foolproof.  
     I also have a Pioneer CD player and I like it a lot.  Sounds like your
getting a pretty good deal!!  By any chance does you dad stock MB QUART!! 
hehehe.
     
Brandon
86 Salon
     
------------------------------
     
From: John Schmich <schmich@AZStarNet.com> 
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 17:03:11 -0300 
Subject: Re: Movie, Cutlasses 
     
>     Everyone here knows better than to lend their car to a movie 
>     production company, right????
>
>______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
>Subject: Movie, Cutlasses
>Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET 
>Date:    4/19/96 9:22 AM
>
     Has anyone seen one (of the many) cheesy cannonball movie (I think its
called Speed Zone).  Halfway thru the movie they show two guys wiring up some 
cable accross the highway to stop the other cars from preceeding.  They tie 
this cable up to two billboards.  After their done they sneak behind one of 
the billboards and an 84 Hurst Olds is sittin' there.  They get in the H/O 
and watch the other cars coming.  One second later, you see the huge 
billboard fall on top of the H/O.  The whole car gets crushed, including the 
deck wing (that I could have used).  
     What makes me mad is that they ruined a great car, for not even 6
seconds of film time.  The H/O wasn't shown once in the movie other than 
that part.  That car had to be brand new because the picture quality of that 
movie sucks.  
     They could at least let the H/O finished 2nd, behind the red Ferrari.
     
Brandon
     
------------------------------
     
From: Rod Rickenbach <rod@hopi.dtcc.edu> 
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 17:29:05 -0300 
Subject: Re: dash speakers
     
On Fri, 19 Apr 1996, John Schmich wrote:
     
>      I don't know if anyone else had to do this but a bought a pair of 3.5" 
> Kicker Impulse for the front speakers on my 86 Salon.  They are a coaxial so 
> the top wouldn't sit under the speaker cover.  Being in the confined space
> they are, I didn't really want to make modifications to the speaker setting 
> area.  So I took a pair of wire clips and started cutting the circular grate 
> part of the cover.  (Yes, just the sound of this is making some sick.)  Then 
> I took my Dremel tool and sanded down the rough edges.  After I was done,
> the cover had the whole circular part cut out.  Actually, it turned out A
> LOT better then I thought.  The circle has a nice cut that some people can't 
> even tell it's not stock.  After sanding, the inside didn't look discolored 
> at all. 
>       If you have a dash mat, that's good because it keeps the dust and 
> harsh UV rays out.  
>      This is a good trick if you have a set of coaxials that won't fit.  But 
> I am in NO way saying that this is 100% foolproof.  
     
I had this problem while installing these same speakers in the front of 
my '81 Delta 88 Royale.  My solution was to use part of the old factory 
speakers- there was a black plastic ring wit a cross in the middle of 
it.  Pried that plastic piece off of the speaker, used a knife to cut the 
cross out, and VIOLA! a 3.5" black circular spacer.  Put that between the 
speaker and the grill, and bolt in (had to bend the mounting tabs a 
little...)
     
Looked absolutely stock - did have some trouble hitting the duct work in 
the dash tho...
     
- -Rod
- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
    Rod Rickenbach                                       Delaware Tech
     rod@dtcc.edu                                 Computer Services Department
http://www.dtcc.edu/~rod                            Stanton/Wilmington Campus
     
------------------------------
     
From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 18:36:21 -0300 
Subject: Re: valley tray 
     
     
          YES, guaranteed to leak, I think, is more like it. 
               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
     
          I beg to differ.  I've used the factory-style "bathtub" 
          intake gaskets exclusively for years with no problems 
          whatsoever.  Two tricks are 1) use some type of RTV (ie, 
          Permatex Form-a-Gasket) to run a bead around both sides of 
          the coolant passages on the gasket.  Give the RTV a while to 
          dry prior to installation.  2) make sure the locating 
          flanges around the front and back bolt holes fit properly 
          into the corresponding bolt holes in the heads.  The bolt 
          holes have shallow counterbores to allow this flange to fit 
          properly.  This will hold the gasket in place while you fit 
          the manifold.  Also, obviously, you must take care to drop 
          the manifold straight down and not dislodge the gasket 
          during installation - easier said than done, especially with 
          a factory cast iron big block intake.
     
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
     
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30
     
------------------------------
     
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com> 
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 16:34:09 -0300 
Subject: Re: How to remove G-Body dash... 
     
>>Do you know if the actual markings and indicator are still in there, or 
>>is it empty and they just covered the hole with the plastic piece?
>>
>>--Dan
>>
>     I don't know really.  I'm sure Oldsmobile did the cheapest thing 
>possibly so they probably didn't waste there time and money making three 
>different tachs.  So my guess would be that it is still behind there.  
     
It's a separate little subassembly held in with maybe two screws. You can 
nab one from the junkyard if the goons haven't torn the whole dash out of 
the junk car before you got there. (Seems like a lot of them decide to 
remove the stereo by going in through the headlight buckets.  :-)  Just 
remove the filler plate, install the pointer assembly, return spring and 
faceplate, and carefully thread the clip and string out through the bottom 
of the cluster and down to the steering column bowl. Pay attention when you 
take it out of the junk car and you'll have no problem putting it in. In 
fact, there's no point in opening up your own dash until you've got the 
prindle assembly from the junk car, at which point you'll learn all about 
what's under there.
     
I _think_ I've seen all possible combinations: Shift indicator without tach, 
tach without shift indicator, both, and neither. They just fill the unused 
space with little filler plates.
     
>     I would find taking the dashboard apart one heck of a job.  I hope I 
>never have to.
     
Ehhh... It's not a brute-force job (except for maybe popping the faceplates 
off); it's a precision job. If you're good at manipulating fiddly little bits, 
keeping three or four different-but-real-similar types of screws separated, 
and tightening screws into plastic without making crunching noises, you'll
be fine. In fact, brute force is more likely to get you _into_ trouble than 
out of it, unlike work under the hood.
     
Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431 
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com 
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473
     
------------------------------
     
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 17:42:20 -0300
Subject: Re: '69-'72 GM A Body Disc Brake Conversion
     
In Hemmings there's an ad from someone who sells a kit to do this. Says 
it's completely bolt-on (not sure what else it could be...). $395.00. The 
guy's name is Larry Cyman, 909-787-9717, in California.
     
Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
     
------------------------------
     
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 17:45:11 -0300 
Subject: Help!
     
Don't know if this made it to the list so I'm forwarding it.
     
Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
     
     
- ---------- Forwarded message ---------- 
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 12:51:58 -0300 
From:	hpnaepflin@CCGATE.HAC.COM
To:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: Help!
     
Hi All!
     
Been lurking on the digest for the past few months.  Vote for 1 list although 
traffic is getting up to where a newsgroup might be a good idea.  Well said, 
Andy Green, on your mail list hygene summary.  Edit them quotes.
     
My 70 Cutlass is acting up a bit and I'm temporarily driving her 70 miles a day 
so I really need to fix a couple of things THIS WEEKEND.
     
First, she's going through a quart of ATF every tankfull with no visible 
leaks.  Vacuum modulator...Right??  Is this as bonehead a swap as it would 
seem, its the THM350?  Any hints? 
     
Second, and more annoying, the ignition circuit seems to be grounded out 
when cranking so i have to start her by cranking in short pulses and hope 
that she catches at the end of the crank.  Ignition works fine in "run". 
Anybody have this happen before and/or have any trouble shooting hints?? 
     
Please send any advice direct to me as well as to the list so i can get 
around to fixing her tommorrow. 
     
Hans
hpnaepflin@ccgate.hac.com
     
     
------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 17:53:09 -0300
Subject: Camshaft Stuff

Called the local performance parts place today to see what they wanted 
for a Crane cam (don't recall the p/n but it's their mildest grind). 
Their price: $219 Cdn., which seems high to me. That's w/o lifters which 
the guy said were another $100 or so. Asked about Engle, said they didn't 
carry them. Asked about Wolverine/Blue Racer, he said they didn't work 
too good and he wouldn't recommend them. (Talk about shooting from the hip!)

Mondello or Dave Smith sound better all the time. 

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 18:02:45 -0300
Subject: Re: Benchmark Car Prices 

In a message dated 96-04-19 13:55:20 EDT, you write:

>Thought you might be interested in car prices on some relevant cars 
>here in the Rustbelt Northeast.
>
>I'm finding in the process of looking for a decent M body Cutlass that 
>**anything** with "no rust" (defined as no holes but likely having 
>doors that, upon inspection, need to be replaced due to rot on the back 
>side of the bottoms) instantaneously are worth about $2000.

And that's with a bad motor. Of course, if you are going to do a buildup of a
street car, starting with a rusted car will easily set you back well over
$2000 to get the rust out of the quarters, floors, trunk, etc., never mind
chrome.

A rust-free, but well worn and used car with an interesting motor or decent
options easily runs $3500-$6000. If you can find one, a true musclecar in
anything like high-#3 or better starts at $7000.

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 18:03:06 -0300
Subject: Any Rhode Island members out there? 

It looks like I may be living in RI next year, and I was wondering whether
any of you are from that state, or are familiar with the auto registration
procedures there. I've got a '69 Toro, a '78 Electra and eventually a '70
Cutlass Supreme. What do they have for inspection at the time of
registration, and for annual inspections? How far back do emissions tests go?

And, are there any decent machine shops in the Providence (west) area? I've
got to rebuild my Electra's 403, and can't decide whether to do it there or
in my hometown.

Any information would be gladly appreciated (this topic probably would
warrant an off-list discussion)

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 18:03:21 -0300
Subject: Help! Troubleshooting a points ignition (no fire) 

My '69 Toro turns over fine, but doesn't fire. There's plenty of gas, but no
spark. Any likely culprits for this? The ignition components were new just
before the car was parked six years ago, and look real clean (points aren't
burned, cap is sparkling inside). The condensor hasn't shorted out, and the
coil shows 1 Ohm resistance. I ran out of time after this; so what else
should I check for? It has been decades since I've worked with a point-type
ignition, so this isn't automatic for me anymore (I *used* to know this
stuff).

I don't want to just go replacing things, either. Eventually, I'll go with an
electronic conversion, but for now, I'd like to get the stock setup working
right.

Thanks in advance!

- -Bob the (non-running) '69 Toro owner

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 18:03:14 -0300
Subject: Re: Movie, Cutlasses

>billboard fall on top of the H/O.  The whole car gets crushed, including the
>deck wing (that I could have used).  
>     What makes me mad is that they ruined a great car, 

Destroying classic cars in movies makes me fume, even if they're not
Oldsmobiles! Instead of destroying that cherry Cutlass or Chevelle or
whatever, why don't they use a new C*evy Citation or something?  Some people
have no respect... 

- --
Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 18:03:17 -0300
Subject: Re: How to get a Toro to go home with you. 

In a message dated 96-04-19 12:18:03 EDT, you write:

>> Man, are Toros different!  This Toro is something else...
>
>You betcha!
>
>And welcome to the Leper Colony.

I was pretty tired when I posted that message (does it show?); I forgot to
mention the thing that really caught my attention. After taking off the
wheels to check the brakes (the front linings had cracked and need to be
replaced), and inhaling some "brake-kleen" (the buzz is just now starting to
wear off) while getting them clean, I noticed some wierd apparatus around the
rim- they turned out to be offset wheel-weights. Where do you find such
things? I can just imagine Town-Fair Tire just tossing these unique weights,
clipping on the regular weights and bashing the wheel covers back on. The
only other place I've seen welded-on valve stems is on trucks (which is where
these drum brakes look like they're from!)

Let's see, what else- four rear shocks that the Mustang GT copied in '85.
Carpeting *inside* the transmission (chain?) cover. A spare-tire well where
the differential hump normally would be. Electro-vacuum trunk release (I've
seen one or the other, but never both). *HUGE* headlight vacuum resevoir!
Exhaust manifolds, of course. Dual cross-flow muffler (is there any
performance replacement for this type of muffler?). Loooong steering shaft!

Of course, this means that prices are triple what they are for the RWD
equivalents. And unfortunately, spots on my A-pillar makes it look like my
Toro belongs in a leper colony...

I look forward to getting it fired a week from tomorrow, though, and hearing
375hp through those duals.

- -Bob the (only guy who thinks a) 69 (is a good looking) Toro Guy

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 18:14:47 -0300
Subject: [none]

This one also came back to me, don't know why, so I'm passing it on.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 18:03:49 -0300
From:	Bob0Barry@aol.com
To:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: Help! Troubleshooting a points ignition (no fire)

My '69 Toro turns over fine, but doesn't fire. There's plenty of gas, but no
spark. Any likely culprits for this? The ignition components were new just
before the car was parked six years ago, and look real clean (points aren't
burned, cap is sparkling inside). The condensor hasn't shorted out, and the
coil shows 1 Ohm resistance. I ran out of time after this; so what else
should I check for? It has been decades since I've worked with a point-type
ignition, so this isn't automatic for me anymore (I *used* to know this
stuff).

I don't want to just go replacing things, either. Eventually, I'll go with an
electronic conversion, but for now, I'd like to get the stock setup working
right.

Thanks in advance!

- -Bob the (non-running) '69 Toro owner

------------------------------

From: Michael J Meyer <mmeyer@uceng.uc.EDU>
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 18:24:22 -0300
Subject: Re: Steering column and shifter...

	Hello All,

		Since we are on the discussion of the factory gauges
		I have a nagging problem with mine in an 85 Salon
		The temp and oil pressure read high all the time.
		till still work, but just read high. 220 degrees
		on the dash is when the thermostat opens (180 deg)
		I have replaced senders and checked the grounds
		on the dash.  The Olds dealer says I need a new dash
		and I really don't want to go to that extent.
		Anyone have this problem?

				
				Michael Meyer

"If you can't race it or take it to bed, it's not worth having!"

------------------------------

From: "Bruce D. Brumm" <bdbrumm@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 21:28:05 -0300
Subject: Re: How to remove G-Body dash...

John Schmich wrote:
<snip>
> So my guess would be that it is still behind there.<snip...>
> I would find taking the dashboard apart one heck of a job.
> I hope I never have to.
> 
> Brandon

FYI:  Removing guage cluser doesn't require removing the dash -- just the
      speedo cable & wire harness; both clip on.
      I have recently COMPLETELY disassembled an '84 guage cluster to
      try to repair the trip odometer reset shaft.  Not much to the
      cluster -- just looks difficult.
      the shift indicator is a separate piece which attaches to the tach.
      I just bought a guage cluster from Jason Labay and it had the
      shift indicator under the tach (from an '84).  My '86 has a blank
      panel there.  Since it (the indicator) is a separate piece with a 
      spring, cable, etc, I assume a delete panel is used to reduce cost.  
      I will check this weekend.
- -- 

Bruce D. Brumm (bdbrumm@ix.netcom.com)
Network & Systems Administrator
LDM Technologies, Inc.
Troy, MI

'84 Cutlass Supreme 307-Y
'86 Cutlass Salon 307-Y

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 17:31:44 -0300
Subject: Re: Help! Troubleshooting a points ignition (no fire) 

>My '69 Toro turns over fine, but doesn't fire. There's plenty of gas, but no
>spark. Any likely culprits for this? The ignition components were new just
>before the car was parked six years ago, and look real clean (points aren't
>burned, cap is sparkling inside). The condensor hasn't shorted out, and the
>coil shows 1 Ohm resistance.

Ummm... Do you have voltage to the side terminals with the ignition on?
Have you tried clipping a timing light to the center coil->distributor wire 
to see if there's any firing voltage going anywhere? You could also clip a
spark plug to the end of the coil wire, lay it on the block for grounding,
then crank the starter to see if the plug will spark. With the distributor
cap off and an assistant cranking the starter, are the points actually
opening and closing over the cam? Points no open, plugs no bang.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Rocket Boy <clint@darklair.com>
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 01:40:26 -0300
Subject: Re: Steering column and shifter...

> 		Since we are on the discussion of the factory gauges
> 		I have a nagging problem with mine in an 85 Salon
> 		The temp and oil pressure read high all the time.
> 		till still work, but just read high. 220 degrees
> 		on the dash is when the thermostat opens (180 deg)
> 		I have replaced senders and checked the grounds
> 		on the dash.  The Olds dealer says I need a new dash
> 		and I really don't want to go to that extent.
> 		Anyone have this problem?

Check the sender units first.  Chances are, that's where the problem is.  
Also, I have a spare gauge paaackage and the gauges are removable, 
replacable, and interchangeable.   I was thinking about adding some after 
market gauges in the factory holes, but I've since decided to get a '91/2 
Z28 dash and center console and supplement the 150speedo/7k tach with a 
cluster of three GM "Oldsmobile" performance gauges on each side of the 
gauge pack.  


Clint
                          _________
Rocket Boy!             _|_ _\\____|_     '81 Cutlass Supreme
clint@darklair.com       |___//____|            by Oldsmobile

------------------------------

From: Rocket Boy <clint@darklair.com>
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 01:44:40 -0300
Subject: Shift indicator delete panel

I have a delete panel if anyone wants to trade with me for a 4 speed auto 
indicator.  I've got a 4 speed and a 3 speed indicator.  8^(

Clint

                          _________
Rocket Boy!             _|_ _\\____|_     '81 Cutlass Supreme
clint@darklair.com       |___//____|            by Oldsmobile

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 17:39:36 -0300
Subject: Re: Steering column and shifter... 

>The temp and oil pressure read high all the time. still work, but just 
>read high. [...] I have replaced senders and checked the grounds on the 
>dash.

I _think_ there's a voltage regulator on the back of the gauge cluster
there that's supposed to supply clean field voltage to the gauge field
windings. If that went away I could see you getting weird gauge readings,
although I'd expect your gas gauge to go goofy as well. You might need to
pull the gauge cluster (No! Wait! Come back here!) to test for proper
voltage at the clips on the circuit board where the gauges plug in, and
maybe also where the two big harness plugs go into the back.

>The Olds dealer says I need a new dash and I really don't want to go to 
>that extent.

Usually this means, "We don't have time for troubleshooting but we can
guess which assembly to replace." I think they may also suspect the power
supply but are stuck having to swap the whole cluster as a service part
replacement, core exchange or whatever.

If you extract it yourself, you might be lucky and spot a damaged part
of the circuit board that you can jumper, or a loose connector to tighten.
Depends on whether you prefer to explore the dash yourself or not...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Dink" <heinle@jake.udayton.edu>
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 21:01:58 -0300
Subject: Re: Movie, Cutlasses

> >     What makes me mad is that they ruined a great car, 
> Destroying classic cars in movies makes me fume, even if they're not
> Oldsmobiles! 

How bout the one Tool Time episode when a crane falls on a cherry 56 
Nomad.  That pissed me off, even though it was a chubby.

Dink
80 Delta 88 Royale

{
Dink           Dayton, Ohio
http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
Computer Information Systems Major @ UD
}

------------------------------

From: Clas Sundgren <clas.sundgren@mbox200.swipnet.se>
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 02:03:32 -0300
Subject: MadSwede wonder?

Hi Guys! (and girls if there is any ?)

May a fellow from the other side (read Europe)
in fact Sweden, join the world of Olds ?
I have subscribe for a few weeks and now it=B4s time
to take a chance to get (or maybe give) some help.
I=B4m just wonder if there is someone in the group that
runs and loves the good old 40s and 50s. Well, later
models are nice too but my heart beats a little more
faster when 40s and 50s are around. As you can understand
these are rare birds on this side of the "big water" so if
there is someone who can give me hints about parts, tech.info
useful links or whatever I really appreciate it. Maybe someone
just would like to know how good old Olds can survive in
this part of the world ? Just drop a line to MadSwede !
(ok, I can get you some help on that Volvo stuff also
if thats really necessary.)

  clas.sundgren@mbox200.swipnet.se        -47 Dynamic Cruiser
                                          -59 98 Sedan

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 20:13:00 -0300
Subject: MadSwede

Everything's coming here today...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 20:09:42 -0300
From:	Clas Sundgren <clas.sundgren@mbox200.swipnet.se>
Reply-To: Clas Sundgren <clas.sundgren@mbox200.swipnet.se>
Subject: MadSwede wonder?

Hi Guys! (and girls if there is any ?)

May a fellow from the other side (read Europe)
in fact Sweden, join the world of Olds ?
I have subscribe for a few weeks and now it=B4s time
to take a chance to get (or maybe give) some help.
I=B4m just wonder if there is someone in the group that
runs and loves the good old 40s and 50s. Well, later
models are nice too but my heart beats a little more
faster when 40s and 50s are around. As you can understand
these are rare birds on this side of the "big water" so if
there is someone who can give me hints about parts, tech.info
useful links or whatever I really appreciate it. Maybe someone
just would like to know how good old Olds can survive in
this part of the world ? Just drop a line to MadSwede !
(ok, I can get you some help on that Volvo stuff also
if thats really necessary.)

  clas.sundgren@mbox200.swipnet.se        -47 Dynamic Cruiser
                                          -59 98 Sedan

------------------------------

From: urbanch@magi.com (Chris Urban)
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 20:44:08 -0300
Subject: Re: valley tray 

>          The last line says it all. Aluminum intakes will leak with the
stock valley pan.


- - easier said than done, especially with 
>          a factory cast iron big block intake.
>          
>          Joe Padavano
>          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
>          
>          66 442
>          68 W-30
>          69 H/O
>          70 W-30
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: urbanch@magi.com (Chris Urban)
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 20:43:57 -0300
Subject: Re: Camshaft Stuff 

Greg
           $219 is high, Wolverine cams start in the.575 lift range and up
from there, Engle only sells to distributors. The best deal in Canada seem
to be Competion cams which are about $150 or if you really want cheap try
Elgin cams around $89. These can be ordered from a place in BC called
Canadian High Performance(1-800-663-8228). I myself have never tried Elgin
cams but people say they are good enough for mild build apps. Comp cams do
not have a dual pattern Olds camshaft.



>Called the local performance parts place today to see what they wanted 
>for a Crane cam (don't recall the p/n but it's their mildest grind). 
>Their price: $219 Cdn., which seems high to me. That's w/o lifters which 
>the guy said were another $100 or so. Asked about Engle, said they didn't 
>carry them. Asked about Wolverine/Blue Racer, he said they didn't work 
>too good and he wouldn't recommend them. (Talk about shooting from the hip!)
>
>Mondello or Dave Smith sound better all the time. 
>
>Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
>
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: urbanch@magi.com (Chris Urban)
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 20:43:51 -0300
Subject: Re: valley tray 

Well I really hate to do anything to promote Mondello but here it is
1-800-252-2527


>
>
>YES, guaranteed to leak, I think, is more like it.  I'll have to get me one
>of those trays and go with the separate intake gaskets.  How can I get a
>Mondello catalog?  Got a phone #?
>
>Thanks again!  
>--
>Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
>dpauliso@metrolink.net
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 22:12:58 -0300
Subject: Carlilse car show 

ok...those of you who werent there today missed an excellent time...there
were many Oldsmobiles, to look at, including an almost complete 31 olds, no
engine/trans tho... there were a few beautiful toronados, and some even
better older metal there...sorry, just had to tell you
                    zack
      ___
     /. .\
    _\_*_/_                     -<Buddha>-
   / /   \ \                   Buddha@itw.com
   \_\___/_/            HTTP://www2.itw.com/~buddha/
  /___\_/___\ "That which does not kill us makes us stronger"
 *************

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 22:15:45 -0300
Subject: Bravada dash 

since there is all this talk about dashes...what was the tach option on the
91 bravada?  and anywhere I could get one?  my dad wants a tach just so it
looks cool, and he has sent me to do the job (again)...
                         Zack
      ___
     /. .\
    _\_*_/_                     -<Buddha>-
   / /   \ \                   Buddha@itw.com
   \_\___/_/            HTTP://www2.itw.com/~buddha/
  /___\_/___\ "That which does not kill us makes us stronger"
 *************

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 22:26:09 -0300
Subject: Another Viral Outbreak! 

It seems that the dreaded T-Virus has spread to the east coast. This virus
knows no boundries.....will it EVER end?

Good luck Bob, were all pulling for ya!

Greg  (Typhoid Toro)

------------------------------

From: jblair@nhr.com (John T. Blair)
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 22:36:35 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: 455 Valve Job 

>
>     Uhh.. off the valve stems?  Don't you mean off the *pushrods*?
>
YES off the valve stems, not the pushrods. You can buy shorter push rods, but all of a sudden your vavle geometry will go to heck. The machine shop will only take maybe .030 off of them.



>
>______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
>Subject: Re: 455 Valve Job
>Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
>Date:    4/17/96 3:52 PM
>
>First, it's best to have both done at the same time, as long as you can afford 
>it . The big thing is that if they (the machine shop decks the heads the MUST 
>take t he same amount off the vale stems or you will wipe out a set of lifters.
>This is do to the non-adjustable vavle train that the OLDS engines use.
>
>
John T. Blair  WA4OHZ          email:  jblair@nhr.com
Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (804) 495-8229

48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget  65 Morgan 4/4 Series V
     75 Bricklin SV1   77 Spitfire

------------------------------

From: jblair@nhr.com (John T. Blair)
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 22:37:04 -0300
Subject: Re: Camshaft Stuff 

>Called the local performance parts place today to see what they wanted 
>for a Crane cam (don't recall the p/n but it's their mildest grind). 
>Their price: $219 Cdn., which seems high to me. That's w/o lifters which 
>the guy said were another $100 or so. Asked about Engle, said they didn't 
>carry them. Asked about Wolverine/Blue Racer, he said they didn't work 
>too good and he wouldn't recommend them. (Talk about shooting from the hip!)
>
>Mondello or Dave Smith sound better all the time. 
>
 Mondello and Dave Smith both offer great cams. I was restoring my Big Block W-32 and wanted to put the '68 Hurst Olds cam in it. Yes the wilder one. Wolverine/Blue Racer are very good also. I got mine from a place in Lansing Mich. but the name Service Engine Group. These guys can supply OEM parts for Olds. They are Good people too.  








>Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
>
>
>
>
John T. Blair  WA4OHZ          email:  jblair@nhr.com
Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (804) 495-8229

48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget  65 Morgan 4/4 Series V
     75 Bricklin SV1   77 Spitfire

------------------------------

From: jblair@nhr.com (John T. Blair)
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 22:36:50 -0300
Subject: Re: Correct Paint Color 

>To all,
>
>Does anyone know where to get the correct red/maroon paint that is in the
>center of the Rocket emblems and hubcaps/wheelcovers? It seems the red always
>seems to fade, but the black remains fine, especially on the hubcaps. 
>
>I can match the color pretty close, but getting it to stick to stainless
>steel and chromed pot metal is another thing entirely!
>
>Try some TESTORS model paint. It's a good enamel. If you want to do it right then get a syringe an slowly squeeze paint into the emblem or hubcap.

Jim Chermack (804)474-0869



Thanks,
>
>Greg Kalkhoff  (T-Toro) 
>
>
John T. Blair  WA4OHZ          email:  jblair@nhr.com
Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (804) 495-8229

48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget  65 Morgan 4/4 Series V
     75 Bricklin SV1   77 Spitfire

------------------------------

From: Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 18:57:48 -0300
Subject: Re: Movie, Cutlasses

>That car was a '70 442 W30.   They built three for the movie and 
>fortunately the only damage to all three was that one got 12 bullet holes 
>in the winshield.   I have an article in PHR from a couple years ago 
>about this.   In 18 days the car crew for that movie located 3 basket 
>cases and restored them to factory specs.   VERY impressive.   8^)


I walked into a dedicated vender for GM about 4 years ago here in the 
Metropolitan Detroit area. They built all 3 cars for Demolition Man. 1 
car was perfect, the other two just looked nice...

I may still have their card at work, if anyone wants to know the name of 
the company... It was fun to see those pictures of red W-30's plastered 
all over their lobby!

Mike


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Michael R. Hall                            Ortonville, Michigan
E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com
Owner: 1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
Owner: 1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...
Owner: 1994 GMC Sonoma Club Coupe SLS Pickup, soon to be "Bravadaized".
         Brought to you by a Apple Power Macintosh 7100/80
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 22:56:51 -0300
Subject: 455 compression 

To all, 

What should the proper compression be on a stock olds 455 (68 Toronado) and
how much can the deviation be between the cylinders before its a problem.
Also, is it proper to squirt a bit of oil in the cylinder after the first
test to see if it gets better? 

Thanks,

Greg Kalkhoff  (T-Toro)

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 00:01:40 -0300
Subject: Toro field bomber, trans Q

Here I was lamenting that I have no Toro driver, not even a beater/ field
bomber... then it occured to me! The red one [1966] was considered undriveable
because the rear springs have no support, and the back drags. BUT... the Toro
is FRONT WHEEL Drive... the whole rear end is unnecessary! Yep, just rig up a
fuel can in the front part, and take off!

Brother picked up a 72 wagon yesterday, for fixing the guy's van... TOTALLY
used car. no seat foam left, completely ragged interior. Good points: 7a heads,
it runs [nother field bomber!], TH400 trans, and disc brakes, such as they
are...

So, this 1968 442 "OG" trans I picked up, it's unit number is like 8171, but
there's *no* VIN stamping on it, and the speedo hole is plugged with an
expanding rubber plug... anyone know why this might be? I'm guessing that a
racer ordered it alone, thus no VIN stamping, and no need for a speedo...
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: "Dink" <heinle@jake.udayton.edu>
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 01:26:50 -0300
Subject: Re: Toro field bomber, trans Q

>  BUT... the Toro is FRONT WHEEL Drive... the whole rear end is unnecessary! 

Wait a minute. All toro's are front drivers?  i thought only like 
mid-eighties up were front-drivers???

Dazed and confused Delta owner.

Dink
80 Delta 88 Royale

{
Dink           Dayton, Ohio
http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
Computer Information Systems Major @ UD
}

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 00:40:58 -0300
Subject: Re: Correct Paint Color 

Jim,

You wrote:

>Try some TESTORS model paint. It's a good enamel. If you want to do it right
then get >a syringe an slowly squeeze paint into the emblem or hubcap.

>Jim Chermack (804)474-0869

Jim,

Thanks, but I think you may have missunderstood what I want to paint. The
hubcaps and Rocket emblem would be first surface preparations. Not, injecting
paint between a backing plate and a clear cover, like some of the ones Olds
had...if not most of GM line in the 70's & 80's. 

The emblem on a 66-67 Toro on front clip is only red between the raised
ribbing between the rocket and the edges.  In fact, the TORONADO lettering is
painted red in the inside groove of the lettering. The hubcaps are similar
(only flat with black outline).

IMHO, this is a lacquer based paint, but I'm not sure..thus my original post.
It's a red/wine/burgudy/almost dried blood sorta color. 

If all else fails, I will pop off a hubcab and take it to an arts and crafts
store to match the paint. I just thought there might be a GM paint number out
there somewhere for all the brick-i-brack!

PS I'm not one of those Ch*v*# V"tt* guys that is nuts about correct
preservation. Its just that I have so may hubcaps, scripts. emblems, etc,
That I would like to restore them and help spread the virus!  lol

Thanks again Jim,

Greg  (T-Toro)     

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 01:09:07 -0300
Subject: Re: Toro field bomber, trans Q 

Dink,


On April 20th you wrote:

>Wait a minute. All toro's are front drivers?  i thought only like 
>mid-eighties up were front-drivers???

>Dazed and confused Delta owner.

It sounds like you may be kidding, but if your'e not. The 1966 Toronado was
the first FWD car produced in the USA since the 1936 Cord. They were all FWD
ever since. The Aurora, (Olds's new flagship) is the 4th generation Toronado
in disguise!

If you would like more info on the history of the Toronado, let me
know.....maybe we can get you out of that Delta and drive a REAL car!  (just
kiddin)

Greg Kalkhoff   (T-Toro) 

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 01:09:09 -0300
Subject: Toro Field Bomber! 

Chris,

You wrote on April 20th,


>Here I was lamenting that I have no Toro driver, not even a beater/ field
>bomber... then it occured to me! The red one [1966] was considered
undriveable
>because the rear springs have no support, and the back drags. BUT... the
Toro
>is FRONT WHEEL Drive... the whole rear end is unnecessary! Yep, just rig up
a
>fuel can in the front part, and take off!

If you wanna good laugh, you should see our 1966 parts car. The rear springs
are popping through the trunk about 10 inches....talk about a low rider! You
jack up the rear end and the body stays there!  LOL

More seriously though, many, many old Toros met an otherwise early demise by
people who would take the rear-end assembly off and use them for trailer
axels and suspension. It was simple, easy to do, and made a very nice hauling
trailer. I would imagine there are literally hundreds of sawed off Toros in
the bone yard. 

Don't I remember a Citroen (FWD) in an old Burt Reynolds football movie
meeting a similar demise?

Greg  (Typhoid Toro)

------------------------------

From: "Dink" <heinle@jake.udayton.edu>
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 02:24:51 -0300
Subject: Re: Toro field bomber, trans Q

> It sounds like you may be kidding, but if your'e not.
i'n not.

> The 1966 Toronado was the first FWD car produced in the USA since the 1936 Cord. 
hmm, never knew this.

>They were all FWD ever since.
I would have never guessed that.

> If you would like more info on the history of the Toronado, let me
> know.....
Sure tell me more, if you have time, but it's not real important.

>maybe we can get you out of that Delta and drive a REAL car!  (just kiddin)
Nah, i like my drivin wheels behind me.  Can't do donut's and power 
slides in a front driver (at least not in mom's camry)

Dink
80 Delta 88 Royale

{
Dink           Dayton, Ohio
http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
Computer Information Systems Major @ UD
}

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 02:36:37 -0300
Subject: Re: Toro field bomber, trans Q 

In a message dated 96-04-20 00:33:35 EDT, you write:

>>maybe we can get you out of that Delta and drive a REAL car!  (just kiddin)
>Nah, i like my drivin wheels behind me.  Can't do donut's and power 
>slides in a front driver (at least not in mom's camry)

Oh *sure* you can!

1. Find real big empty parking lot
2. turn wheel all the way (left or right, your choice)
3. put car in *reverse*
4. floor the gas pedal; continue until eyes fall out, tires fall off, or
lungs collapse from laughing too hard.

Doing this occasionally kept driving a '79 Horizon hand-me-down somewhat
amusing.

On second thought, if you tried this in a Toro, make #1 a REAL BIG empty
parking lot, like at the Meadowlands or something. Or Central Park on a quiet
Sunday morning; that'd be a "lawn doctor" to remember!

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 09:10:26 -0300
Subject: Re: 455 compression

At 10:56 PM 4/19/96 -0300, you wrote:
>To all, 
>
>What should the proper compression be on a stock olds 455 (68 Toronado) 

My book says 180 psi for a 2 bbl and 190 psi for a 4 bbl.

- --
Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 09:15:19 -0300
Subject: Re: Correct Paint Color

The paint on these emblems is referred to in several catalogs as "claret 
poly", sort of a purplish-red. It seems to have a tendency to fade since 
there are three emblems on my Cutlass where the red has basically 
disappeared and left the background a pinkish-silver. Not a big priority 
but if you find a good match let us know. 

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 09:32:04 -0300
Subject: Re: Correct Paint Color 

At 22.36 04,19,96 -0300, you wrote:
>>To all,
>>
>>Does anyone know where to get the correct red/maroon paint that is in the
>>center of the Rocket emblems and hubcaps/wheelcovers? It seems the red always
>>seems to fade, but the black remains fine, especially on the hubcaps. 
>>
>>Try some TESTORS model paint. It's a good enamel. If you want to do it
right then get a syringe an slowly squeeze paint into the emblem or hubcap.
>
>Jim Chermack (804)474-0869
>
i might suggest using The Testors Model Maser paint...rather than the stuff
you find in the regular...model master seems to be bettre formulated, and
they have colors that are matched to Ford and GM colors...also...there is a
brand of paint that the model train crowd uses called Floquil, it WILL stick
to the stainless and pot metal, as it was designed to do this...one problem
with the floquil, it only comes in flat finishes, so you must buy a separate
gloss agent to make it nice and shiny...
                         Zack
      ___
     /. .\
    _\_*_/_                     -<Buddha>-
   / /   \ \                   Buddha@itw.com
   \_\___/_/            HTTP://www2.itw.com/~buddha/
  /___\_/___\ "That which does not kill us makes us stronger"
 *************

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 09:35:04 -0300
Subject: Re: Toro field bomber, trans Q 

At 01.26 04,20,96 -0300, you wrote:
>>  BUT... the Toro is FRONT WHEEL Drive... the whole rear end is unnecessary! 
>
>Wait a minute. All toro's are front drivers?  i thought only like 
>mid-eighties up were front-drivers???
>

toro's were the first mass produced american FWD car...

>Dazed and confused Delta owner.
>
>Dink
>80 Delta 88 Royale
>
>{
>Dink           Dayton, Ohio
>http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
>Computer Information Systems Major @ UD
>}
>
>
      ___
     /. .\
    _\_*_/_                     -<Buddha>-
   / /   \ \                   Buddha@itw.com
   \_\___/_/            HTTP://www2.itw.com/~buddha/
  /___\_/___\ "That which does not kill us makes us stronger"
 *************

------------------------------

From: conrad <rad19@icon.net>
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 11:31:02 -0300
Subject: Re: Toro field bomber, trans Q

Dink wrote:

> Nah, i like my drivin wheels behind me.  Can't do donut's and power
> slides in a front driver (at least not in mom's camry)

True Dink... in drive, I once ran the front right tire off the rim of my 66 TORO doing 
that ( I was 16 and a little wild & Crazy at the time) Now, I'm just wild.  They do good 
donuts in reverse, however!  
 
Conrad.

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 02:36:27 -0300
Subject: Re: How to get a Toro to go home with you.

Bob0Barry@aol.com wrote:

> offset wheel-weights. Where do you find such things?

Greg Kalkhoff (Toronado66@AOL) has a lot of parts or maybe the 
Witt-meister can help.

> Dual cross-flow muffler...

Firechickens used a similar muffler (which is what I have mounted in 
mine).

> A-pillar:

Maybe that pillar/roof seam mid-way up.

> I look forward to getting it fired a week from tomorrow, though, and 
> hearing 375hp through those duals.

Yeah, that's the ticket!

The 66 Toro and Mike (who thinks a 69 is still way better looking than 
most of the crap on the road)


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 02:39:57 -0300
Subject: Re: Help! Troubleshooting a points ignition (no fire)

Andrew C. Green wrote:
> 
> My '69 Toro turns over fine, but doesn't fire...

You can also try running a jumper from the battery + directly to the 
coil hot.  This would eliminate ignition switch, tranny switch, wiring, 
etc.  Once ran a VW Bus for months that way (such as it ran).

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 01:29:19 -0300
Subject: Re: Toro field bomber, trans Q

Dink wrote:
> 
> Wait a minute. All toro's are front drivers?  i thought only like
> mid-eighties up were front-drivers???
> 

Huh?

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 13:24:08 -0300
Subject: Any New Members on the List? 

Well, I haven't seen too many "new member introductions" lately (though there
have been a couple); has anyone joined the list recently? If so, it is
customary to introduce yourself, and tell of your Oldsmobile interests past
and present. I know I like hearing what other people are doing with their
cars.

So, if you have just joined the list, stand up and be counted! We'd like to
hear from you (*even* if you don't own a Toronado...;)

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 13:44:06 -0300
Subject: Troubleshooting points

>My '69 Toro turns over fine, but doesn't fire. There's plenty of gas, but no
>spark. Any likely culprits for this? The ignition components were new just
>before the car was parked six years ago, and look real clean (points aren't
>burned, cap is sparkling inside). The condensor hasn't shorted out, and the
>coil shows 1 Ohm resistance. I ran out of time after this; so what else
>should I check for? 

Check the coil -- remove the coil wire from the distributor cap and hold its
terminal 1/8 - 1/4 inch from a good ground.  Attach a jumper wire from the
positive battery post to the positive terminal on the coil, and another wire
with an ignition condensor in series between the coil's minus terminal and
ground.  When you disconnect the ground wire, you should see a healthy spark
between the coil's high tension wire and ground.  Also make sure the coil is
not hooked up with its polarity reversed.  It will still work that way, but
the secondary voltage (spark voltage) can be reduced up to 20%, and it will
cause the electrodes of the plugs to erode.  Plus side of coil connects to
the wire from the ignition switch, minus goes to the points.  The coil
should show from 1/2 to a few ohms between the plus and minus terminal, and
2,000 to 15,000 ohms between the minus terminal and the high tension terminal. 

If it checks out OK, and you do have spark from the coil, check the wires
with an ohmmeter.  4,000 - 5,000 ohms per foot is an "average" good reading.
If the wires are OK, pull the plugs and make sure there are none which are
badly fouled, or that have bridged electrodes.  Make sure the gap is
correct; too large a gap, and the spark may not jump it (correct setting is
.030").  Check the dist. cap (inside and out) for carbon tracking, as well
as the coil tower, and check inside the coil cavity for corrosion.   Make
sure the points actually open and close.  There should be zero ohms between
the points when closed, and infinite resistance between the hot point and
groung when the points are open.  The correct dwell setting for a '69 455 is
30 degrees.  The larger the dwell angle setting, the smaller the point gap.
Also make sure the plug wires are fully seated in the cap and on the plugs.
Test the condensor by touching one lead of a multi-meter set on ohms to the
pigtail of the condensor, and the other lead to the case of the condensor.
The resistance should rise from zero to infinity as the meter's battery
charges the condensor.  Check the condensor both ways; no other reading is
acceptable.

That's about everything I can think of...other than checking compression.
Should be 180 psi for the 2 bbl 455 and 190 psi for the 4 bbl 455.  Lower
reading will still work, as long as they're not to low.  My Cutlass is
supposed to have 180; all have 170+, except #1 has 145 psi.  Still fires,
though.

Hope some of this helps...



   
- --
Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: "Michael D. Bruce" <kaos@primenet.com>
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 13:59:50 -0300
Subject: RE: Any New Members on the List?

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB2EA2.5989BFC0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Well, I haven't seen too many "new member introductions" lately (though =
there have been a couple); has anyone joined the list recently? If so, =
it is
customary to introduce yourself, and tell of your Oldsmobile interests =
past
and present. I know I like hearing what other people are doing with =
their
cars.

So, if you have just joined the list, stand up and be counted! We'd like =
to
hear from you (*even* if you don't own a Toronado...;)

=09
I joined a while ago, but was not aware of the introduction ritual.  :)  =
I don't own any Olds' yet, but after seeing a very nice 442 W-30, I =
started looking for one.  I'd like to find one to restore, as it would =
improve my mechanical knowledge, which, right now, is close to nil. :P =20

Mike



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- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB2EA2.5989BFC0--

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 14:21:53 -0300
Subject: Re: Any New Members on the List?

>Well, I haven't seen too many "new member introductions" lately 
>
>So, if you have just joined the list, stand up and be counted! We'd like to
>hear from you (*even* if you don't own a Toronado...;)
>

Oops...

Well, I've been around here a couple of weeks now.  I have a 69 Cutlass
Supreme. It's a four door, however, and interior parts are very hard to find
(plastic trim, door panels, arm rests, etc.).  But it is an Oldsmobile,
though.  Runs great; better than any C*evy.  Needs some work...the body's
kind of rough, but there's not a lot of rust.  The interior is original
except the seats have been recovered in the mid eighties by my father in
law.  He bought the car as the second owner in 1971, and we still have the
original sales papers (no window stickers) protecto-plate, and owners
manual, as well as all the maintenance/ 
repair papers.  The engine is original, and has never had any major
problems.  I have taken the heads off and lapped the valves, and I've put in
a new oil pump and timing chain.  I put new main and rod bearings in last
Thanksgiving.  The old ones had 188,000 miles on them, and there wasn't any
copper showing on any of them!  Good old Oldsmobile...  It is on its third
tranny, though.  This one is out of a '76 Cutlass.  The second one just gave
up one day.  I dont know anything about the original, except that it was a
TH350 replaced in 1982 for $80.00 at the local Exxon garage.  I would like
to restore this car someday, even though it is a four door.  I love it anyway!

My father in law also owned a _loaded_ 1965 Olds 98 with a 425/400 in it.
He let his son drive it regularly to Orlando (about an hour drive from
here).  Well, a freeze plug rusted out, and the car overheated and blew the
head gaskets (nobody ever checked the coolant).  I was in the process of
repairing the engine, and it was decided by my father in law that it _WASN'T
WORTH FIXING_!  He was going to take it to the junkyard.  I only had another
day's work till it was running again.  I could have had the car, but I
wasn't as Olds crazy then.  It was hauled off...the only part I saved was
the lettering and emblem from the front of the hood (the word "OLDSMOBILE",
in individual letters), the horn button from the steering wheel, and the
vacuum release trunk lid (for my Cutlass!).  The lettering became a lamp
which I made.  The horn button is in my closet somewhere.  I could have used
that TH400...  I can't deal with the guilt :(   Hopefully some parts found a
home on some other Olds somewhere.

Enough about cars here's some about me.  I live down here in sunny (and
often _TOO_ hot) Florida, in Melbourne, on the East Coast.  By day I am a
plumber, by night an Olds freak.  My wife of two and a half years doesn't
really understand it.  I'm not sure I do.  I think it's not just a Toro
Virus, it's an Olds Virus, and I've got it.  Or maybe it's just a mutation
of the Toro Virus.  I love working on my car, and I have big plans for
it...for someday, when I have a few thousand dollars laying around.  For
now, it's just maintenance and a few minor mods, that's about all I can afford. 

That's all folks!
 

  

- --
Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: gludlam@bcinet.net (Gregg Ludlam)
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 14:59:20 -0300
Subject: Re: Q-jet 

>          ... how do you adjust the mixture on a 4 bbl Q-jet? 
>          
>          Of course you realize that turning the mixture screws only 
>          adjust idle mixture and that you need to change jets and 
>          metering rods for anything else.
>          
>          I usually use a vacuum gauge.  Make sure it's hooked up to a 
>          manifold vacuum source, not a ported or switched vacuum 
>          source (see posts on TVS) and just turn the screws in and 
>          out to maximize the vacuum reading.

I second the above advice and have done that very same adjustment with great
success!  Most service manuals/books on Q-Jets will tell you to start with
the idle mixture screws at least 2 full turns out.  I think mine are at
about 3 turns, and as Joe says, watch the vacuum gage for the max reading
with the car idling the best.

>          PS, keep the Q-jet.  Get parts from the Carburetor Shop (I 
>          think they're in Ontario, CA now)

I'd love some details on this place (ie: address/phone number).  I'm
rebuilding the Q-Jet I got off of Chris Witt, and I'd like to do a brass
float, new (original-sized) metering rods/jets, and a bushing kit but have
been having trouble finding this stuff.


- -Gregg, the '67 Toro guy

------------------------------

From: "Dink" <heinle@jake.udayton.edu>
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 15:52:25 -0300
Subject: Re: Any New Members on the List?

> >Well, I haven't seen too many "new member introductions" lately 
> >
> >So, if you have just joined the list, stand up and be counted! We'd like to
> >hear from you (*even* if you don't own a Toronado...;)

Well maybe we sould have like an owners info section on the web page 
for personal info, If anybody would be interested. 
I know the F-body page has a owner's personal info page, but were 
nothing like f-bodys!

Dink
80 Delta 88 Royale 'that&that'

{
Dink           Dayton, Ohio
http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
Computer Information Systems Major @ UD
}

------------------------------

From: gludlam@bcinet.net (Gregg Ludlam)
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 15:17:07 -0300
Subject: '69 Toros Really are Pretty - Honest! 

>-Bob the (only guy who thinks a) 69 (is a good looking) Toro Guy
>
Who's the jerk that ever insinuated otherwise?!   :(


- -Gregg, the '67 Toro guy

------------------------------

From: gludlam@bcinet.net (Gregg Ludlam)
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 15:24:04 -0300
Subject: Re: Troubleshooting points 

Again, I recommend the "Ignitor" by Pertonix - a $79 black-box replacement
for points/condenser that lives completely inside the distributor.  Easy to
install, been around for ages, and still keeps the stock-look of the
ignition system without extra goofy black boxes having to be mounted under
the hood.

BTW, I LOVE the look of '69 Toros...HONEST!!!


- -Gregg, the '67 Toro guy

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 15:56:27 -0300
Subject: Re: Troubleshooting points

At 03:24 PM 4/20/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Again, I recommend the "Ignitor" by Pertonix - 

>-Gregg, the '67 Toro guy
>

Where can you get 'em?
- --
Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #153
********************************