
oldsmobile-digest         Thursday, 21 March 1996      Volume 01 : Number 125


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tony <3CQ9DELBALSO@vms.csd.mu.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 19:44:53 -0400
Subject: Shaving heads

Hi,
There was much discussion on shaving heads a couple weeks ago when I was asking 
questions about my camshaft options.  I have since found out quite a bit of
info and would like to clear up some misconceptions.  

First, as several posters noted, the typical Fel-Pro head gasket is .019 in
thicker than the stocker.  So this much can be taken off the heads to achieve
stock geometry (assuming the block was not decked).  If you are planning to
shave more than this, a few things can be done to make sure everything lines
up.  








     This isn't working right, something is wrong with this terminal, I will
try and finish this post later this week when I can log on from home, sorry.

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 20:01:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Shaving heads

On Wed, 20 Mar 1996, Tony wrote:
> First, as several posters noted, the typical Fel-Pro head gasket is .019 in
> thicker than the stocker.  So this much can be taken off the heads to achieve

This has baffled me ever since it first came up. Can anyone explain *why*
head gaskets these days are thicker than they used to be? Is there any
beneficial reason why they are being made thicker? Are there differences
between brands or is Fel-Pro the only manufacturer these days? Does anyone
make a thin gasket? What would I get if I ordered from a GM dealer? It
would seem that with advances in technology, gaskets could be made
thinner, not thicker. 

Inquiring minds want to know...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 20:07:38 -0400
Subject: RE: Olds engine rebuild kits- any experience with PST's kits?

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I have talked to Mondello on several occasions.  Only once, the last time
(about 2 weeks ago) was he pleasant and gave me usable information.  The other
times he sounded bothered and didn't give me any useable infor, twice giving
information which contradicted his own catalog!  I will try to call and return
the rocker pivots, but I would bet $ I won't be able to do so.
Tony

Good luck!


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From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 20:11:41 -0400
Subject: RE: Shaving heads

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They are made thicker these days to combat a condition that is rarely =
seen anymore. Blown headgaskets. There was a lot more of this problem ( =
with performance engines in the past so companies found by making them =
slightly thicker they became stronger. Thinner gaskets can still be =
obtained from some places but you will have to do your homework.

- ----------
From: 	Greg Beaulieu[SMTP:ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca]
Sent: 	Wednesday, March 20, 1996 7:01 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Re: Shaving heads

On Wed, 20 Mar 1996, Tony wrote:
> First, as several posters noted, the typical Fel-Pro head gasket is =
.019 in
> thicker than the stocker.  So this much can be taken off the heads to =
achieve

This has baffled me ever since it first came up. Can anyone explain =
*why*
head gaskets these days are thicker than they used to be? Is there any
beneficial reason why they are being made thicker? Are there differences
between brands or is Fel-Pro the only manufacturer these days? Does =
anyone
make a thin gasket? What would I get if I ordered from a GM dealer? It
would seem that with advances in technology, gaskets could be made
thinner, not thicker.=20

Inquiring minds want to know...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, =
Canada






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From: "A. G. Crisp" <gcrisp@tribeca.ios.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 20:19:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Re[2]: 84 H/O stuff

david.chontofalsky@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu wrote:
> 
>          While I'm here, does anyone know the GM number for the silver paint?
>      The black paint?  I need to pick up some touch-up paint soon. . .
> 
>      Tom L.
> 
> Tom, I know GM color 19 is black.  You need to look at your color code on the
> header panel of the car it will say something like 19L for black lower and 15U
> for the upper color. (15 and 16 were both GM silvers i believe)
> 
> David Chontofalsky@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu

Hey Dave,
	Just wondering, again, if you have received my latest mailing 
about my 74' H/O. I sent it to your private address. Did you receive it 
yesterday(3-19-96)? I'm posting this message here in case were having 
technical difficulties with the other address.
 
P.S. Where's that gif of your H/O you were talking about?

						Glenn

------------------------------

From: Michael J Meyer <mmeyer@uceng.uc.EDU>
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 20:18:31 -0400
Subject: Aluminum Rear Brake Drums

Hello everyone,

	I was wandering the local junkyard yesterday, when
	I came across an '81 or '82 Cutlass that had 
	aluminum rear brake drums.  Was this an option? 
	Is this rare? Or was the rain affecting my vision?
	

			Thanks,

					Michael Meyer

"If you can't race it or take it to bed, it's not worth having!"

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 20:33:10 -0400
Subject: KPH to MPH Conversion 

Here is the info you need to convert a KPH speedo to a MPH speedo.  But
first, you must first read the mail I sent pertaining to Speedometer
Calibration...

The first thing is to convert from kilometers to miles:
                          1 kilometer = 0.621 miles, or
                          60 KPH = 37.26 MPH

As I said before, SAE states that a correctly calibrated speedometer turns
1000 rpm at 60 mph, so the ratio of the speedo is .1 to 1.  But replacing 60
mph with 37.26 mph, gives a new ratio of .16 to 1, so you would need an
adapter of 1.6.  As far as I know though, the tallest adapter GM makes is
1.3, so you would also have to compensate with your drive and driven gears.

Then with this info , you  could get a Canadian Olds speedo and make a 140
mph US speedo out of it.  But keep in mind though that your odometer will be
off.  It will still be registering kilometers.  (The odometer is gear driven,
while the needle is magnetically driven). So there will be a tradeoff...

Any thoughts.comments/questions??????     Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 20:34:07 -0400
Subject: Speedometer Calibration 

For you guys that have been following the info I have been putting forth
about calibrating speedometers, here is an explanation I hope you can
understand..

First of all, some background:  I am an electrical engineer by trade, but
work with some mechanical engineers who helped me verify the following info.
 I have a really good understanding of how this works, but if anybody has
some different thoughts, please let me know...

To begin, SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers), the group which sets the
standards that the automotive manufactures must follow, state that a
correctly calibrated speedometer must turn 1000 rpm at 60 mph.  So if you
relate velocity to angular velocity, you use the following formula:

                       (1000 revolutions/minute)(2PI radians/revolution)(60
min/hour)
Speedo Ratio =
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ------------
                       (60 miles/hour)(5280 feet/mile)(12 inches/foot)

Speedo Ratio = .1 radians/inch

So now that you have the correct speedo ratio, you can now work backwards
with the following formula to determine was drive/driven gears and/or adapter
you need:

                        (Rear Axle)(Drive Gear/Driven Gear)(Adapter Ratio)
Speedo Ratio =
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- --------------------
                        (5280 feet/mile)(12 in./foot)(1 hour/60 min.)(1
rev./(PI*Tire Diameter))
OR

                        (Rear Axle)(Drive Gear/Driven Gear)(Adapter
Ratio)(Tire Diameter)
Speedo Ratio =

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ---------------
                         336.135

Keep in mind that if you don't have or need an adapter ratio, use 1 in the
formula.  Also, you should measure the actual diameter of your tire since
tires sizes vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. 

If you would like to verify the formula's, try plugging in some numbers out
of a GM parts manual.  From 1978 and up they have a chart that relates tire
sizes/drive gears/driven gears/adapters and rear axle ratios.  But please
keep in mind, I have found a few errors in these charts, for example, my 86
Olds 442.  According to the book, the car should have a .8241 adapter, but
the car actually doesn't.  If you use .8241 in the formula, you get a speedo
ration of .70, if you don't use the adapter, you get .097!  But please,
experiment for yourselves...                    

Like I mentioned before, I am working on a program to do this, and it is alot
better than plugging numbers on paper.  It is almost finished, and I will
post it so you can try it out. 

Any thoughts/comments???    Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com 

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 20:42:00 -0400
Subject: RE: Aluminum Rear Brake Drums

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Grab them!!!

- ----------
From: 	Michael J Meyer[SMTP:mmeyer@uceng.uc.edu]
Sent: 	Wednesday, March 20, 1996 7:18 PM
To: 	Aluminum
Subject: 	Aluminum Rear Brake Drums


Hello everyone,

	I was wandering the local junkyard yesterday, when
	I came across an '81 or '82 Cutlass that had 
	aluminum rear brake drums.  Was this an option? 
	Is this rare? Or was the rain affecting my vision?
	

			Thanks,

					Michael Meyer

"If you can't race it or take it to bed, it's not worth having!"




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From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 21:17:28 -0400
Subject: Misc., 69 H/O

> light), and the Ninety Eight series was only $5.60.  Why it's the
> cheapest is anybodys guess.

they don't have to add as much stuff b/c it's there already?

> I bought the car for $1000 as advertised "50,000 Original Miles."  Then upon
> name.  Called him and lo and behold, it is 150,000 miles.  And the engine
> puked its guts up several years ago and he had a 75 model 455 installed.  I

Didn't the lack of C heads tip you off? Where you at? I might unleash that old
66 Toro 425 for ya if you'd arrange shipping? Runs great, only a few [dozen]
passes, rev limited to 6200 RPM... 112K kiles young... 13.6 second 1/4 mile in
a 78 Cutlass.


> Just received my adjustable rocker pivots from Mondello last week.  I thought
> was buying a kit to allow me to adjust each rocker individually, turns out I
> can only adjust them in pairs.  Much to my dismay, it appears as if they work
> in the same manner as my stockers.  Two pivots and one bridge piece will
..snip..
> shim is the same thickness for a given pair.  If anyone knows why stock rocker
> can't be adjusted this way, let me know why I spent this hard earned money.
> Mondello doesn't give cash back at all, and I opened the package to inspect th
> parts.  Oh well.
> Tony

Huhm, lending credence to the 'ripoff artist' end of the spectrum of opinions,
I guess. Hope you didn't pay over $100 or so for what amounts to plain-jane
stamped rockers & a few shims...
  Well, for my 2cents, I just ordered the race car's valve springs from
PAW, and they threw in a catalog... Which has by far the most Olds stuff from
misc. mfgrs. that I've ever seen... Anyhow, they have such pedestal shims for
like $8 a kit. Well worth it if you haven't shop access to make your own.
Mechanic's Tip: DON'T make 'em out of ALUMINUM [I tried!] cuz it squishes out
and does not help any. The PAW catlaog just lists  the mfgrs' info, so of
course, none of them actually understand the differences in camshaft bank
angles- which have the 45, which have the 39 degree- EVERY ONE of the mfgrs has
either an omission, thus the clueless buyer assumes that cam will not work for
him, or a lie, thus the CB gets an incorrect camshaft sometimes... Oy! I'm only
about 1/3 of the way thru the catalog, so far so good. Too bad they don't carry
any C*evy or F*rd stuff :)
  Oh, yah, I did the shim thing on my engine, have yet to fire it, and will do
so on the race engine as well. Crude, but effective, and dirt-cheap.

> My Toro (with the Q-Jet from hell) used to do that...I continued fumbling
> around with the idle mixture screws (those 2 little suckers on the
> base/front of the carb) and that seemed to relieve the problem.  As for
> running rich - choke problems, floats not set at correct level/flooded, etc.
> seem to be the biggies for a Q-Jet.  I believe you're right in saying
> - -Gregg, the '67 Toro guy

If those well plugs underneath are leaking, no amount of fiddling with the idle
mixture screws is gonna help much...

> Go after that '68...first year of the 455-powered Toros, although in my
> - -Gregg, the '67 Toro guy

No finer engine candidate, though: C heads, 455, Toro windage trays, Toro oil
pan, big valves...

> I have heard A/C '69 H/Os got 'C' Heads verses 'D' have seen both So I
> would  guess 'C' would be OK. The RAM AIR set up is the big concern as
> its Big $$ to replace it!

> I have also heard that some a/c cars had C heads, although I think that was
> more common in '68 than in '69. My a/c '69 has D heads. The ram air setup is
> almost impossible to come by for any amount of money. I think you'd have an
> easier time getting a date with Kim Bassinger than you would coming up with
> the ram air. Really!
> Jon Wessel, H/OCA Director

Just to clear things up, in case of confusion, the car in Q has all its ram air
parts, mirrors, NOS spoiler, wheels, posi, seats, console, shifter. I still
think it's worth more than the price in parts alone...
- --Chris--

> Find someone at PAW, Summit, etc. who know a damn thing about Olds? I doubt
> it.

I dunno, I called PAW on a lark, cuz I was intrigued by the huge ad, asked
about valve springs OK to use in shallow heads and good for over 0.550" lift.
Not only did they have them, for $20 less than Mondello's units, but they
supplied the cheesy Taiwan chrome RACovers for a mere $25 [not MY engine!].
Bonus! The salesman looked up the specs, even told me the installed height when
I was worried that they might not fit shallow seat heads. Good service, good
prices. They don't know the subtleties of the cam bank angle diff's, but, then,
it seems no one but me does- even Mondello's catalog lists '65 425 Toro' engine
or some such error. Typo? Maybe... but inexcusable nonetheless.

> The ram air setup for a 69 H/O must be very expensive.  I saw an air
> cleaner lid for one advertised for US$1200!

Whole car here for $4500, folks, I'd grab it & part it out if it did not mean
the end of life as I know it.

> spoken with are far more technicaly minded than Joe with his backyard =
> fixes (main cap strap kits to mention one, give me a break). If you want =

Excuse me? What's the problem with cheaply adding ultra-strong metal to the
highly stressed main caps? Made of cast iron, notoriously weak in tension...
and brittle. Sure, billet steel caps or a full girdle tied to the rails would
be great, but not many engine builders have an unlimited budget...

> information which contradicted his own catalog!  I will try to call and return
> the rocker pivots, but I would bet $ I won't be able to do so.
> Tony

Well, as a last resort, after nicely explaining that these will not suit your
purposes at all, and formally requesting a cash refund, you might consider
telling him that you will be glad to share your experience with oh, what, 2-300
Olds enthusiasts here on the internet...  And that you will be glad to take all
future business to other companies such as Batten, Dave Smith, Rocket Science
:) etc. as well as urging others on the internet to do likewise... If that
don't sway him, then he's diggin' his own grave, huh?
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: "Joseph Keith McCall" <jkmccall@QBC.Clic.Net>
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 16:19:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Speedometer Calibration

> Like I mentioned before, I am working on a program to do this, and it is alot
> better than plugging numbers on paper.  It is almost finished, and I will
> post it so you can try it out. 
> 
> Any thoughts/comments???    Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com 
> 

Tom:

Picked up the gears today, hopefully this blast of snow and cold will 
be gone by the weekend and I'll let you now how I made out with you're selection.

 Joe
**********************************************************
Je suis branche chez            ClicNet Telecommunications
Tel: (418) 686-CLIC        Le site Internet de la capitale
http://www.qbc.clic.net

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 13:14:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Aluminum Rear Brake Drums 

     This is news to me.  I've never seen an aluminum brake drum on any 
     car.  I'd think they'd warp from heat as well as wearing out very 
     fast.  Brake drums aren't all that heavy, maybe 10 lbs apiece, save 5 
     lbs each by going aluminum?  This would be in the rear too, the wrong 
     place you want to lose weight from (only if you're a car :-) ), but it 
     would be unsprung weight possibly improving the ride.
     
     But, from an Olds point of view, I've got documentation on all the 
     options available for '84 and nowhere is it listed.  In fact, there 
     aren't any brake-related options at all.
     
     But if you do find some, I'd sure as heck be interested to know about 
     them!
     
     Tom L.


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Aluminum Rear Brake Drums
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    3/20/96 4:44 PM


Hello everyone,
     
 I was wandering the local junkyard yesterday, when 
 I came across an '81 or '82 Cutlass that had 
 aluminum rear brake drums.  Was this an option? 
 Is this rare? Or was the rain affecting my vision?
     
     
   Thanks,
     
     Michael Meyer
     
"If you can't race it or take it to bed, it's not worth having!"
     

------------------------------

From: Willie <aceface@ohana.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 22:31:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Salvage Yards??

Scott Nolan wrote:
> 
> >
> > I was hoping to make a trip down to the Maine, upstate New York and
> > Vermont area this summer. My wife has agreed that we can spend some time
> > going through some yards on the way. Does anyone here know of some smaller
> > yards that may be worth investigating? I have a few places to visit on the
> > trip that i pulled from  Hemmings ads. I don't have the list here but i do
> > remember one being called Fusick's (Connecticut i think) anyone here ever
> > deal with them? If you know of any yards that worth a trip just let me
> > know!
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Scott Nolan           Carleton University
> `Please God, give a bald guy a break, amen' -Homer (as in Simpson!)
> Email address: snolan@chat.carleton.ca
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------  Hi Scott!

I have dealt with Fusicks on many occations. They are very nice people. Their prices seem to be the cheapest on rebuilt items 
and they have warranties. They also have a lot of used new and NOS parts for all Oldsmobiles, even my 57! If you don't know 
how hard it is to  Get parts for this baby, you don't want to know!

Willie!

------------------------------

From: "Peg O'Connor" <peg@grove.ufl.EDU>
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 03:07:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Speedo drive gears:

> Wouldnt you just use a reduction box in the ratio of MPH/KPH?

At the time I did this -- about 1988 -- I didn't realize that that was a 
possibility.  As the car is in the shop now, engineless, the speedometer 
doesn't go above 0 mph.  Besides, it's more fun to have people think you're
doing 90 when you're really going 75; they marvel at how you just *fly* past
cops with impunity . . . . :)

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 03:11:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Hi.

> My name is Willie. I live in Hawaii. I am currently restoring and roddin 
> a '57 super 88. I would like any help possible with my car. I am also 
> looking for a tri-carb setup, manifold and all, for my 371. Thank you 
> very much for your time. Bye!

	For parts sources try: Kanter Auto (for engine/brake/mechanical 
parts) Fusick (for mech./misc trim parts...they seem to have a lot of 
stuff for mid 50s Olds...) or Olds USA (lot of the same stuff as Fusick, 
but maybe not as much of it)  And of course, get a copy of Hemmings and 
scan the Olds section.  Always lots of private parites selling misc 
stuff.  Oh, and you might try Metro for rubber parts.  They have a pretty 
massive catalog with tons of seals, gromets, etc.  If you want any of 
the phone numbers for any of these places let me know, and I'll get them 
to you.  
	As for the J2 setup, well...manifolds seem to be pretty abundant 
(I looked through Hemmings for them a while back--quite a few, some for 
as little as $75!!).  The carbs and linkage are a totally different 
story.  Luck and a lot of $ is what you need here for a complete set.  
I've seen a complete, but very dirty J2 setup for sale for $800 for 
everything!  Maybe if they threw in an engine!  I guess just keep an eye 
out for that stuff where you can.  
	Hope this helps!!
	
		Scott
	1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98 

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 03:13:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Mirrors -n- Stuff...was Re: Stuff found, H/O, etc.

> The trunk light should work no matter what, but the others (hood,
> glove compartment, etc.) may be wired to only operate if the exterior
> lights are on.
> 
> The trunk light is powered off the always-hot circuitry, either the
> interior lights or the clock/lighter circuit (both, if they don't
> have separate fuses).

	
	I'll check it out.  As of right now, neither of the dome lights 
work either, so maybe there's a short or a bad fuse...
	
		Scott
	1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: "Peg O'Connor" <peg@grove.ufl.EDU>
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 03:18:33 -0400
Subject: Re: 84 H/O stuff

> One other question; when you put the key in the door to *unlock* it - do you turn towards the front or back of the car?  Mine is towards the rear, which is counter to all my previous GM experience, including both the 77 and my 85 Firechicken.  And don't tell me it was part of the special Hurst/Olds security package - "And even if a theif gets your keys, he'll never figure out how to open the door!" :-)  Actually, ever notice that people seem to have problems figuring out that you have to let off the shifter button to get into neutral?  I can just see a theif driving off with no problem, then not being able to park it when he got where he was going...:-\  DOH!!

Mine turns toward the back (both '86 Supreme and '78 Calais).  My 
experience has been that FoundOnRoadDeads and jap crap turn toward the 
front, and 
GM's turn toward the back.  I'm surprised to hear that the Pontiac is 
different -- '78 Grand Ams turn toward the back, too.  Maybe that's 
enough to confuse a thief, I dunno . . . .

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 03:17:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Aluminum Rear Brake Drums

>      This is news to me.  I've never seen an aluminum brake drum on any 
>      car.  I'd think they'd warp from heat as well as wearing out very 
>      fast.  Brake drums aren't all that heavy, maybe 10 lbs apiece, save 5 
>      lbs each by going aluminum?  This would be in the rear too, the wrong 
>      place you want to lose weight from (only if you're a car :-) ), but it 
>      would be unsprung weight possibly improving the ride.
>      

	
	In my book "How to Restore You're Musclecar" they mention that 
some late 60s musclecars came equiped with aluminum brake drums.  They 
sugested beadblasting them to clean them up.  
	I would assume that the main attraction to aluminum for brakes 
would be the fact that they conduct heat very well, keeping the brakes at 
a lower overall temp. but thats just a guess.  As you pointed out, weight 
savings would be minimal.  I guess the ride would be improved (also as 
you pointed out) as it should be when you add light weight aluminum 
wheels.  Any one else care to guess?

		Scott
	1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98 

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 03:27:39 -0400
Subject: Fly wheeling

Here's a  few queries for you dedicated Olds moes....
1) How much abuse can a stock (iron) flywheel handle?
2) What is the best source for an aftermarket (steel) flywheel?
3) How much clutch do you need for various power levels? (Any experience 
could be helpful)
4) If you were to sell a used but good condition stock flywheel, how 
much would you ask for it?
5) Are there any special type of bolts that are used to fasten the front 
cover of a Lakewood blowproof bellhousing to the main "bell" part?
Thanks!


%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 04:21:00 -0400
Subject: Philosophy of Life!!!!! 

>"If you can't race it or take it to bed, it's not worth having!"

     YES!  Gotta Love That!!!
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://www.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 04:21:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Spoilers -Reply 

     Glenn, couldn't get back to you directly, so I'll post it to everyone,
('Cuz they all saw the first one, too, as I recall, so they may have
wonderred the same thing...)


>What's the diff if they have an internet address or not?  Please let 
>me know.  Apparently you have an insight that I'm not aware of.  
>Obviously I'm not aware of a potential scam. Could you please give me 
>your advise on this.    Thanks

    Well, if they have net access, we could get them on the list, and have
more people to BS with.  Simple, nothing political...
     If they don't then I guess they're just missing out!
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://www.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 04:21:00 -0400
Subject: Re: '89 Cutlass Stuff 

>One of the few catalogs I have is the 1989 Cutlass line catalog. According
>to the fine print in the back, the "Console, Full-Length Shifting with
>Storage and Integral Armrest (includes Rear Lamp on Calais S and SL)" was
>listed as standard equipment on all Calais except the base model, and also
>standard on the Cutlass Supreme International Series, but not even an option 
>for the Cutlass Supreme SL (or the base Supreme, for that matter). (page 51)
>
>Under "Seating and Trims", the SL is listed with a 55/45 divided front
>bench as standard, including "Armrest, Front Seat Storage on SL model)".
>Further down, an optional seat for the SL is listed as having reclining 
>buckets and "Console with Floor Shifter and Steering Wheel, Leather-Wrapped
>(AR9)".
>
>So I guess you might try hunting for an International Series Supreme and
>see how its console compares with yours. There are photos in this catalog
>of the various trim levels that I could study, but I have to do some Real 
>Work around this office occasionally  :-)  so if you need more details,
>Email me and I'll take a closer look when time permits. HTH...

     Most interesting...  We'll have to do some looking here and see what we
find.  I'll keep your catalog in mind, just in case...

     Thanks!
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://www.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 04:21:00 -0400
Subject: Re: '89 Cutlass Stuff 

>Charlie:
>
>Looked up the 89 Cutlass Supreme SL in a brochure.  The engine is listed as
>a 2.8 litre V6 with MPFI.  don't see any other engine options. 
     
     Looked under the hood today.  DEFINATELY a 3.1L.  Stamped right on the
intake, no mistaking it.  I'll have to do some research to find out what's
up with that...

 There were
>several option packages listed.  The only reference to the console is:
>Interior Sport Package: includes front floor console and leather-wrapped
>steering wheel.
>Let me know if you want me to quote the options in full.
     Shouldn't be necessary.  Just satisfying curiosity, more than anything
else...

>
>Regards from Ottawa
>Gary Green
     Cool, Thanks...

    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://www.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 04:43:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Aluminum Rear Brake Drums 

          I've seen a some (I'm thinking from my '78 Buick Wagon -- donor,
of course...) that were factory painted a dull powder grey, kinda like
aluminum.  They were much lighter than the ones on my GS, and they did
interchange, but they aren't aluminum.  They may have been aftermarket drums
(Some co's like to shine 'em up a bit, ya know...)  Maybe this is what
you've seen.  I tend to agree that aluminum brake drums would be similar to
styrofoam frames.  Just not very stable.  I think it'd handle the heat well
enough, but the abrasion and pressures from the shoes would eat right
through them, I'd imagine.

    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://www.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 04:43:00 -0400
Subject: Re: 84 H/O stuff 

>> One other question; when you put the key in the door to *unlock* it - do
you turn towards the front or back of the car? 

>My experience has been that FoundOnRoadDeads and jap crap turn toward the 
>front, and 
>GM's turn toward the back.  I'm surprised to hear that the Pontiac is 
>different -- '78 Grand Ams turn toward the back, too.  Maybe that's 
>enough to confuse a thief, I dunno . . . .

     From what I've seen, there is little rhyme or reason to any of them.  I
think they stuck with body styles (A/G bodies turned to one way, F bodies
another, etc)   I think most manufacturers design in that direction only to
minimize linkage travel inside the doorskin, and some applications don't
have enough room to go the other way, I suppose.  

    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://www.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 04:43:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Speedo drive gears: 

>At the time I did this -- about 1988 -- I didn't realize that that was a 
>possibility.  As the car is in the shop now, engineless, the speedometer 
>doesn't go above 0 mph.  Besides, it's more fun to have people think you're
>doing 90 when you're really going 75; they marvel at how you just *fly* past
>cops with impunity . . . . :)
>
     When I test drove the Gran Sport a couple years back, I had a similar
reaction.  I got in and did what test drivers do, ya know -- put it to the
boards...  Right away I was flying, I knew this not only from the pressure
of the seat on my back, but by the speedo showing 50, 60, 70, 90, just
zipping along.  I'm thinking "Sh-t!!!  This @!$#%  Hauls !%#$!!!  I kept 'er
up around 90 for a while, you know, "listening for noises, etc"  (OK,
actually 'cuz I COULD!) and it dawns on me:  I'm not passing ANYBODY!!!  I
kinda figger'd summtin wuz up!  
     That initial feeling of awe looking down there sure stuck, tho!  I
still freak people out, I often hear "Holy !@#$~!  We're going 130 already!"
~Occasionally~  I break the news to 'em!


    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://www.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 05:07:00 -0400
Subject: New family pics! 

     Well, I got pics of my roommate's '89 CS-SL on my page finally.  I just
checked 'em out, and the school moved my page, or something!  I'm not sure
what's going on, but you can still find 'em at
"http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner"  (Instead of www.nmclites.....)  I'm not
sure how long this is for, but I hope they at least let me know!  Anyway, enjoy!
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://www.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: david.chontofalsky@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 08:46:00 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Mirrors -n- Stuff...was Re: Stuff found, H/O, etc. 

Scott
I think that is correct on the headlights being on for the Underhood lamp and
the glovebox light,  The trunk I'm not quite so sure of I think that is driven
off a different circuit.  Follow the lead and probe the connections with a test
light and see where the power starts.  Could be a bad ground also.  Like with
power windows, look near the hinges, the bending of the wires open and closed
might make and break a connection, I had poser window harness go bad at the door
jamb on a 63 Mercury Breezeway hardtop (yes I owned a few foreign cars also)  I
had to resplice all the wires for the power windows at the Jam level.  
David.chontofalsky@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu
David


> The trunk light should work no matter what, but the others (hood,
> glove compartment, etc.) may be wired to only operate if the exterior
> lights are on.
> 
> The trunk light is powered off the always-hot circuitry, either the
> interior lights or the clock/lighter circuit (both, if they don't
> have separate fuses).

 
 I'll check it out.  As of right now, neither of the dome lights 
work either, so maybe there's a short or a bad fuse...
 
  Scott
 1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: johnspr@ix.netcom.com (JOHN PRESTON )
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 09:01:33 -0400
Subject: RE: Shaving heads

You wrote: 
>
>
  Can anyone explain =
>*why*
>head gaskets these days are thicker than they used to be? Is there any
>beneficial reason why they are being made thicker? 


A couple of reasons for the currently thicker head gaskets might be:

  1.  Many/most engines today have aluminum heads and iron blocks.      
    This presents a challenge in terms of the difference in coefficient 
    of expansion between steel & aluminum.

  2.  Compression ratios have been inching up and for most cars are     
    over 9:1; another challenge for head gasket sealing.

  3.  The gasket manufacturers are transferring this thicker / better   
    sealing gasket technology to **all** gaskets they manufacturer for  
    **all** applications.

------------------------------

From: david.chontofalsky@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 09:04:18 -0400
Subject: 1959 Super 88 sedan for sale in Nashville Tn 

I have a friend who has a '59 Super 88 4 door sedan he wants to sell.
He thinks it is a very valueable item,  But I think I have brought him down to
earth on this.  It was his first car, and it was what borught him from Indiana
to Nashville Tn.  He drove it daily for almost 9 years till he got a '61
convertible VW, his pride and joy.  The car has taken a good shot to the left
rear 1/4 but it is fixable and very driveable. (I call it Mad Max)  The car
doesn't look like much but it runs like a scalded dog (it is very responsive and
quick for a tank) It starts immediatly, idles perfect and you can drive it away
with no hesitation or real noticeable lack of performance.  It has the high
compression 394 and a smooth shifting hydramatic.  Brakes are good tires and exh
aust are new.  I don't know how much it would take or if it would be worth
restoring a sedan in this shape,  I wish it would look as good as it
drives/performs.  It would make an excellent parts car.  The car  has a power
bench seat.  Kind of interesting in this car (and it still works).  The chorme
for the most part in the rear is average condition (great for rechroming) 
Forget the rear bumper,  The front end is ok,  Grill is nice but missing the
headlight bezels/marker light lenses.  Stanless trim is OK except lr 1/4 and is
missing rocker mouldings.  Email me if you have questions.
The guy just bought a house and wants to sell the old girl.  I think he is
asking like $1,600 for it but I know he would take less.
David.chontofalsky@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu

------------------------------

From: johnspr@ix.netcom.com (JOHN PRESTON )
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 09:11:05 -0400
Subject: RE: Aluminum Rear Brake Drums

You wrote: 
>
>

>
>	I was wandering the local junkyard yesterday, when
>	I came across an '81 or '82 Cutlass that had 
>	aluminum rear brake drums.  Was this an option? 
>	Is this rare? Or was the rain affecting my vision?
>	
>
I believe Buick used finned alum drums on the front 'way back in the 
late 50's /early 60's.  Some fellows would use them on fenderless 
street rods and the visual was neat.  To answer your specific question, 
I have an ordinary '78 Malibou with rear alum drums.  I think they were 
commonplace on some but certainly not all '78-up RWD mid-size GMs.

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 11:08:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Speedo drive gears: 

>> Wouldnt you just use a reduction box in the ratio of MPH/KPH?
>
>At the time I did this -- about 1988 -- I didn't realize that that was a 
>possibility.  As the car is in the shop now, engineless, the speedometer 
>doesn't go above 0 mph.  Besides, it's more fun to have people think you're
>doing 90 when you're really going 75; they marvel at how you just *fly* past
>cops with impunity . . . . :)

Okay, I can't let this last comment go by... Many years ago, my then-fiancee
owned a battered '78 Grand Prix -- dents on every side except the roof --
and lived on the northwest side of Chicago near the Kennedy Expressway. One
night two gentleman decided at about 3:00 a.m. that they needed to "borrow"
a car in order to get to a party some 35 miles away in Elgin, and hers
looked ripe for the taking. Not wishing to disturb her at such an hour, 
they quietly let themselves into the car, pulled out a _big_ screwdriver 
and got it started. I'm sure they left a note on her front door about it, 
but it must have blown away.

Anyway, they're cruising along the Northwest Tollway, minding their own
business at an indicated 55 mph. What they didn't know was that someone
had swapped transmissions, but forgotten to move the old speedometer gears
into the new unit... which came with the wrong gears. And the car rode
very nicely even at _high_ speeds; you'd never know you were actually 
doing, oh, 75+ mph. So these enterprising characters, Julio and Jesus, 
with no other cars on the road at that hour to compare their speed with,
blew through a State Police speed trap at somewhat more than the legal
limit. With no keys, half the steering column all over the floor, and no
idea what the name of the registered owner of the car might be, they had 
some difficulty persuading the nice officers that we were likely to have
let them borrow the car. 

I fixed the transmission gears at about the same time I put an alarm light
on the dashboard. No further problems...
- --
Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Brian Ashley" <BASHLEY@alexandria.lib.utah.edu>
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 10:23:46 -0400
Subject: RCPT: Re: Speedometer Calibration

Confirmation of reading: your message -

    Date:    20 Mar 96 16:19
    To:      oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
    Subject: Re: Speedometer Calibration

Was read at 8:23, 21 Mar 96.

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 11:39:18 -0400
Subject: Sold! 

The '82 Cutlass is now under new management; specifically, Bryce Smith's
manager, Keith Wood. As I type this, Bryce and Keith are presumably 
somewhere on the road between Chicago and Topeka, Kansas, about 600 miles.

We met at their hotel yesterday evening, drove out to Wilmette and they
inspected the car. Its battery seems to have recovered from its near-death
experience of a few weeks ago and the car started right up in the garage.
We all managed to pile into the car -- Bryce is much taller in real life :-)
- -- and went for a test drive and some sightseeing along the shore of Lake
Michigan and up through the Gold Coast mansions of Kenilworth and Winnetka.
Yours truly had had the bright idea in the garage of deciding to kick off 
the choke before it was ready, which led to some stalling and spluttering 
at the first intersection, but after that things seemed to go all right.
A deal was struck, I gave them 3 extra quarts of oil Just In Case, and I
followed my old car as they drove it back to their hotel for the night.

Bryce and Keith promise to check back as soon as they arrive home, which I
hope will be uneventful ("No, Bryce, he did _not_ say it was normal for 
flames to shoot out of the hood..."), so more news as it develops. We've 
also got a couple of group photos, so Real Soon Now you'll be able to 
check the web pages and be able to put faces to some of the names here!
- --
Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 12:44:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Speedo drive gears: 

> >At the time I did this -- about 1988 -- I didn't realize that that was a 
> >possibility.  As the car is in the shop now, engineless, the speedometer 
> >doesn't go above 0 mph.  Besides, it's more fun to have people think you're
> >doing 90 when you're really going 75; they marvel at how you just *fly* past
> >cops with impunity . . . . :)
> >
>      When I test drove the Gran Sport a couple years back, I had a similar
> reaction.  I got in and did what test drivers do, ya know -- put it to the
> boards...  Right away I was flying, I knew this not only from the pressure
> of the seat on my back, but by the speedo showing 50, 60, 70, 90, just
> zipping along.  I'm thinking "Sh-t!!!  This @!$#%  Hauls !%#$!!!  I kept 'er
> up around 90 for a while, you know, "listening for noises, etc"  (OK,
> actually 'cuz I COULD!) and it dawns on me:  I'm not passing ANYBODY!!!  I
> kinda figger'd summtin wuz up!  
>      That initial feeling of awe looking down there sure stuck, tho!  I
> still freak people out, I often hear "Holy !@#$~!  We're going 130 already!"
> ~Occasionally~  I break the news to 'em!

I have the opposite problem.  My speedometer reads slow.  I didn't know it
for quite some time.  It was very frustrating.  I used to have to drive a
strech of 65 mph I-95 in Florida every day.  Traffic was moderate/heavy, but
the fast lane went 70 mph, as it should have for that amount of traffic.

Of course, I'm trying to barrel through it at about 80 mph, thinking I'm
going 70 mph, and everybody else was going 60 (in the fast lane!).  I rode a 
lot of bumpers, and cursed a lot of people, and generally drove like an 
idiot.  Then, I figured out my speedometer was off, and the world became a 
calmer, gentler place.

Then, there was the time I passed as a cop (as he was just driving along,
minding his own business) at 75, in a 55 zone.  I was trying to read a
sign and I didn't even see him.  (This was after I figured out my
speedometer was off, on I-95, in Mass.)  He pulled me over, and was very
angry with me.  I talked my way out of a ticket, by telling him my
speedometer read slow, and I thought I was only going 65.  That, and he 
liked my car.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | These opinions are strictly my own, 
lawrencr@gdls.com |       ____
(810) 825-8007    |   ___<____>======
                  |  <o_o_o_o_o_o>     Tanks, for your support!

 

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 13:02:01 -0400
Subject: [none]

ce with PST'

Are you trying to tell Batten is cheaper than Mondello!!!

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 13:38:47 -0400
Subject: RE: 

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No I'm saying that they're are more advanced technically. At least if you have to spend a lot you are getting state of the art.


- ----------
From: 	BobH592058@aol.com[SMTP:BobH592058@aol.com]
Sent: 	Thursday, March 21, 1996 12:02 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca; oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca

ce with PST'

Are you trying to tell Batten is cheaper than Mondello!!!




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------------------------------

From: Richard Bonazzoli <bonazzoli@5onflr.ENET.dec.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 14:02:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Aluminum Rear Brake Drums 

Aluminum brake drums have been around for a long time.  Buick used
them in front on all their full sized cars from the late 50's until 
about 1970 when the full size cars got disc brakes.  My '59, '63, 68,
and '69 all had them.

In addition, some A-bodied cars had them in front as well.  I have a pair
in my garage that came off a '68-69 G.S.  I imagine they are quite rare,
as they are the only ones I have ever seen.

Many late 70's Malibu's have aluminum rear drums too.

The aluminum drums supposedly shed heat much better than cast iron, which
is why Buick adopted them.  I never had a problem with them wearing out
prematurely.

Rich

------------------------------

From: david.chontofalsky@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 14:30:22 -0400
Subject: gif of my 1974 H/O 

 I got a few messages privatly saying that they could not see the gif.  Here it
is again as an attached file.  Its option list includes:
 
Tinted glass
power windows
power trunk release
Door Edge mldgs
A/C
Dome/Dual lens reading light
3.23 axle
Super lift shocks
power brakes
L34 350 V8
M38 THM
tilt steering wheel
Rallye instrument pack
Clock
AM/FM/8Track
Y77 Appearance group includes Swivel Bucket seats, painted sport mirrors (inc.
left remote) front compartment console, FE2 Rallye suspension, N34 Rallye sport
steering wheel, N67 SSIII weels, 442 Radiator Grill and 442 flat black louvered
hood.
The following were Hurst options:
Fully padded roof with contrasting simulated roll bar insert
Modified Quarter windows
Color Coordinated accest stripes
Recessed H/O exterior emblems
Custom Hood ornament with Oldsmobile script
and H/O emblem on floor shift console

Official Pace car Replica Kit
Splash guards
Motor Minder fuel economy gauge
H/O id front license plate
Total price as new  $6,049.30
David.Chontofalsky@MCMAIL.VANDERBILT.EDU

The following is an attached File item from cc:Mail.  It contains
information that had to be encoded to ensure successful transmission
through various mail systems.  To decode the file use the UUDECODE
program.
- --------------------------------- Cut Here ---------------------------------
