
oldsmobile-digest           Sunday, 12 May 1996        Volume 01 : Number 173


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 20:12:43 -0300
Subject: Re: electrical problems 

In a message dated 96-05-11 15:51:37 EDT, you write:

>I have noticed electrical problems with my '72 Cutlass 350...

Had some similar trouble with mine a few years ago.  I want to say voltage
regulator here, but I'm no mechanic.  If you replace, make sure to keep the
Delco cover to replace the aftermarket regulator so no one knows it's not a
Delco regulator.

Went thru the starting thing, too.  Battery was new, but it was too small to
turn the old girl over.  Replaced with a correct size Goodwrench.

What do the experts say?

Paul

------------------------------

From: Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 23:07:41 -0300
Subject: Re: Visiting Detroit

>Sounds like you are going to race Greg. Hell, lets set up a rondezvoux point
>and shoot the bull! Anyone else going from the board?


As I'm a Metro-Detroiter, I'm available for a Olds-Bull session. Just let 
me know where the meeting time and place...


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Michael R. Hall                            Ortonville, Michigan
E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com
Owner: 1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
Owner: 1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...
Owner: 1994 GMC Sonoma Club Coupe SLS Pickup.
         Brought to you by a Apple Power Macintosh 7100/80
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

------------------------------

From: "Lowell V. Paden, Jr." <lvpaden@freedomnet.com>
Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 23:59:44 -0300
Subject: Re: electrical problems 

Thanks for all the suggestions.. I will certainly be trying these out!

As for the "cheap" battery.. I always buy the highest rated battery when I
need a new one. This one is a Champion 1050. About the highest cranking
rating I've ever seen. As for the Champion brand, that is what Sam's was
selling when the battery went out in their parking lot. It may not be a
reliable brand.. never bought their batteries before. Anyway, I went out
with a tester, and it reads 12 volts. Still might not have enough cranking
power to start the car. I haven't tried starting it since the day it went
sour. It might even start now.. but it's too late now to start working on
the car. I might never get to bed.

The cables.. that might hurt starting, but not much to do with the
flickering dash lights, right? I haven't ever replaced them.. had the car
for 8 years. They might need replacing, but the cables are the screw-in
type, I think they get less stress than the old lead connector type.

The ground strap.. never thought about that one. Definitely need to check it
out.

The regulator.. isn't that inside the alternator on the '72? I certainly
thought about that one, myself. I did replace the alternator, but anything
could be bad.

Another thing I just thought about.. I believe that the flickering was
noticeable on my digital radio dial, even in daytime. So the headlight
ground might not play a part in that problem.

When the car decided not to start, I was getting ready for a trip last
weekend, and didn't have time to check things out. As long as the car
starts, it runs fine. It's just that the flickering lights have been
worrying me for several months. I'll have to get out in the next few days
and try to see what I can find out.

Thanks again.

Lowell Paden
'72 Olds Cutlass convertible 350 2bbl 191K miles.



------------------------------

From: ngomez@iadfw.net (Nick Gomez)
Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 23:47:51 -0300
Subject: Deals 

I saw a 1974 Cutlass today for sale for $500 in Dallas. Runs, in great
condition, but it's baby blue and I don't need a car. Also saw some deals
in the newspaper, but I haven't any cash.

K-Mart (C) has AC Delco oil filters on sale for $1.99, then they have a
rebate for $1.25. Final price - $0.74. Stock up on your PF24's!

Well, happy motoring...
BeaTniK

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 03:47:09 -0300
Subject: Re: Factory Cutlass low-riders? 

>>> We really don't
>>>care about the Chevelles, tho, do we?  :)
>>
>>Nah, they've always got their tails draggin', no matter what you do to them
>>
>>
>
>thats because they are always trying to run away with their tails between
|            | 
>their legs...                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                                     /\  
Yeah!  Note the subliminal message here!!!
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 03:47:06 -0300
Subject: Re: Factory Cutlass low-riders? 

>I think the better solution is to chop a half-coil from your *front* springs,
>just so you don't go doing the reverse of shortening a leg at a time on a
>chair, such that your '68 ends up looking like a monster truck. Plus, such a
>solution is mainly labor, not buying any new parts, *and* a slightly lowered
>front end would lower the center of gravity, potentially improving your
>handling. Raising the rear even more wouldn't do such good things.

     Keep in mind, that by chopping the front coils, and lowerring the front
end ~that~ way, your front end suspension geometry gets thrown way out the
window.  We know what the wheels do when the front end is lifted off the
ground (can you say camber from hell?)  Same thing happens when you chop
springs.  Remember Herbie -- the Love Bug?  Tires way in at the top?  Expect
the same thing (not necessarily as dramatic, however.  Regardless, not good
for tires, or handling, likely.  Granted, the camber can be readjusted, but
the amount of suspension travel is reduced, and will lead to easy bottoming,
and potential shock wear, I suppose.  To lower the front end safely, the
only way to go is with dropped spindles.  They maintain normal geometry
while lowerring ride height.  Much cleaner.  Much more expensive, too.  
     Then again, you could opt for the 95-35R13 size tires all the way
around, or something, but that's another topic!
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 03:47:01 -0300
Subject: Re: Factory Cutlass low-riders? 

>In a message dated 96-05-09 20:21:21 EDT, you write:
>
>>Anyone know a good solution to buy 1/2" to 1" of height on coil springs
>
>What about those metal spring adjusters -- put them on one way, pulls the
>spring together, put them on the other way and it extends them.  Do these
>risk damaging the springs like the rubber spacers you're talking about?
     Yes, even worse.  These critters are the worst suspension bandaids
money can steal!  My GS had a few sets of 'em on when I got it.  It rode
like a tank and handled like a barge!  I finally yanked 'em out of there and
it rode OK.  Springs are stressed tho'  (which is why those things were
there in the first place!)  The risk to springs?...  Logically, these are
increasing the suspension rate of the spring (hence, it raises the car)
Instead of supporting the weight of the vehicle over the two or three feet
of coiled steel, it is being supported mostly over 1/2 square inch of steel
contact.  This puts a great strain on the spring, and could lead to
breakage.  I don't like that idea! 
     My suggestion, if you're looking for a little more suspension height,
is to get some cheap air shocks (about five steps better than those
"instamatic lift kits"  or if you want to do it better, get lengthenned
springs, or spring lifts (raised mounting platforms for them)  or those
airbags that go inside the springs.  Those are supposed to be rather slick,
although I've never seen them used.
     In any event, I'd not recommend those bandaids.
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 10:37:04 -0300
Subject: Misc.

> >The crank from the guy in NY is in... it is indeed a 425 crank, 10-10, nice
>
> What's his number? I might go that route rather than regrinding my 403's
> crank. Plus, since I'm in NY, I might get it in only two days!
> Does he only do cranks?

I can find it later if you like... Not sure if he 'does' cranks or not, the ad
in HMN was over a month ago, when I called he said it was the 1st crank sale
he'd made, and the bearings were made about 25 years ago [dated 1971, 1973...]
I get the impression that he just had a stash of cranks from way back that he
had to move out... thus the ad. May or may not have a 403 unit on hand. Hey,
maybe he's got a 330 crank, for those really stout small blocks... $140,
delivered... with new bearings...

> when my grandmother was still alive she was a big woman in a big olds...she
> would light em up right in front of our house when she would leave...but
> then my dad said something to her and she would wait till she got just
> around the corner and we would hera the tires burn...she was
> awesome...sometimes she would be pulling out into a busy street and say,
> "zack, are there any cars?" and before you could answer she would tear out
> of there...amost bought the farm a few times doing that:)
>                     zack

Huh, & I used to 'joke' "Grandma's back in town!" when I heard tire squealing &
healthy engine revs...

- --Motor stuffs near Detroit--
> Greg
Well, there's the museum of some sort in Novi Convention Center. Antique
snowmobile, Race Aurora, some funny looking cars with names like curvet or
something like that. A jet car. Model T racer? Etc. "Motorsports Hall of Fame"
or similar.
- -Chris-

> Thought about doing that, but was afraid of stiffening up the fronts too
> much, which I understand cutting out a coil would do.
> Greg Beaulieu

Yes, a little. The rate of the spring is proportional to the number of coils.
Uh, inversely proportional, that is... Other factors are wire diameter, coil
diameter, material, heat treatment, etc. Don't have the exact equation at hand,
but I recall spring rate increasing as you remove coils. Lose height, gain
stiffness...
  Now, the blocks or devices that hold coils together or apart essentially
'remove' that coil from the spring, as it no longer flexes there. Thus, the
spring rate is increased, but overall length is not changed [much].
  Seems to me like a spring with such a device installed would not be much if
any more likely to suffer breakage than a stock spring. Breakage happens; the
fact that it happened after [presumably...] use of such devices may be simple
coincidence.  -Chris-

> I was wondering about this also... how long a drive is it from Metro
> Airport in Detroit to Lansing? I guess I'm looking at a rental car and
> not a cab ride, right?
> Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

I drive past that 'port on the way to the Dragway. About 90 min. from Lansing,
depends on traffic, what's being towed, what's being driven, etc. A well
prepped 442 could make the trip in under an hour... which reminds me, the State
& Ingham Co. cops are now set to use Laser crews to harrass the public on
I96... Oh, joy. They oughta make it so they can't make $ doing that sorta
thing. -Chris-
   Hey, you could FLY to Lansing....

> line hose length when you do that, of course, and you're adding an inch
> or two to your shock travel as well, if that matters.

Huh? The shocks have a limited min & max length... and other factors limit
suspension travel in the front as well... -Chris-

> "Jim Garner returned to the driver's seat in '77. He also raced a specially-
> designed four-wheel-drive Olds Cutlass that year in several major off-road
> events."

Wonder what drivetrain? -Chris-

> calm down.  The guys who bumped mirrors are a good example.  There is no =
> need for some insecure gun toting punk to kill another person - because =
> he got hit in the face.  I don't think there is a purpose to shooting a =
> person in the chest when you are scared.  The shooter could have easily =

I disagree. Anyone crazed enough to attack a person like that might just not be
stopped by the intimidation of the sight of a small gun. In fact, he might just
step back to his own vehicle, get out his much larger gun, and begin a gun
battle... Punchee was much smaller than puncher if I recall... he had a right &
duty to defend his person & posessions. But, this being totally
un-Olds-related, I better quit now.

> I have never heard a satisfactory explanation of why the Olds heads are this
> way. All of them I have ever seen or had described are this way.  Small
> block, big bloke, "W" or whatever.
             ^^^^^
Hey, might be just a typo, but I *like* it... It's a big bloke! -Chris-

> I'm not saying you can't use a non-specified oil filter, just very very
> careful.  You are dealing directly with the system most likely to destroy
> your engine if it ain't right.
> Bob Handren

Huh, are you saying that an inoperative oiling system can ruin an engine? Like
what, toast the bearings, turn the rods & crank blue, stuff like that? :)

> Springs are alleged to have broken using those things!  They at least make
> the car ride like a brick.  They immobilize two coils.  The rest are over
> loaded taking up the job.

Uh, ONE coil... -Chris-

> How far below the surface of the head is the divider?  Thousandths of an
> inch?  Hundredths?  I know the center exhaust ports on the stock manifold
> are siamesed; didn't pay too much attention to the construction of the head
> in that area, however.
> Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme

Usually up to about 1/8" or so. Later heads, like 4A, 5A, 6A, 7A [big A] with
rounded corners where the ID is, tend to have far less divider, it ends right
at the head bolt boss, about an inch in... -Chris-

 > (supercharger)
   (boat)
> I want to put it together myself, Olds powered of course, paint it my way
> and add all of my own little touches/features... Like using a console from
> an Olds with Hurst shifters for throttle and thrust controls. Olds bucket
> seats with all of the gauges built into an Olds dashboard for the cockpit.
> Olds steering wheel with working horn buttons connected to the marine
> horns.

Oh, my. I LIKE the concept... Yes... I'd even like to see that at a car show.
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: Roger Saladin <rsaladin@bright.net>
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 11:40:27 -0300
Subject: Re: electrical problems 

At 04:40 PM 5/11/96 -0300, you wrote:

>I have noticed electrical problems with my '72 Cutlass 350 since last
>October. At night, when I would be stopped at a traffic light, engine at

>Anyone want to hazard a guess?? Anyone had a similar problem?
>
>Thanks for your help.
>
>Lowell Paden
>'72 Olds Cutlass convertible 350 2bbl 191K miles.

I had problems similar to what you're describing last summer. Got stuck at
a local restaurant one evening with what appeared to be a dead battery,
and while a friend went home for some jumper cables, I popped the hood.
Got to nosing around, and turned out it was nothing more than a loose
cable connection. Apparently, the occasional bouncing and vibration
was enough to make a good electrical connection come and go, so the
problems of flickering lights and so on were there only part time.

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 15:44:58 -0300
Subject: Re: electrical problems

Lowell V. Paden, Jr. wrote:

> The cables.. that might hurt starting, but not much to do with the
> flickering dash lights, right?

Nope.  It can have everything to do with the flickering lights. A poor 
connection is a poor connection is a poor connection.  The battery, 
generator/alternator, regulator are all part of the same circuitry.  The 
added resistance of the poor connection or cable becomes more obvious in 
starting since the starter motor is a VERY big load on the battery but 
the problem would still be there when running (to a lesser degree in 
daytime and more at night).

> ... cables are the screw-in type ...

Yeah, they are a little better but keep in mind you're talking about 
cables that are over 20 years old!  The connections may look good but 
since corrosion often travels up the conductors under the jacket, you may 
not see the broken wires and other goo hidden under the plastic.

GROUNDS AGAIN: Electricity travels in a circle ... always.  In a car, the 
positive is carried through the wires but the return path (to negative) 
is almost always through the frame, block, and body panels.  That is, the 
car itself is part of the circuit; therefore, the less-than-obvious 
grounds between the various parts of the car is just as important as the 
obvious wiring.  Since the block and transmission is isolated by the 
mounts, the ground strap is added between the block and the car to 
maintain the electrical continuity.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 13:28:36 -0300
Subject: Re: electrical problems

At 11:59 PM 5/11/96 -0300, you wrote:
 As for the Champion brand, that is what Sam's was
>selling when the battery went out in their parking lot. It may not be a
>reliable brand.. never bought their batteries before.

Bought a Champion battery at Wal-Mart for the "other car" (93 Mitsubishi
Eclipse).  Sixty month battery, lasted about 18.  Just replaced it a couple
months ago when it went totally dead.  First and last Champion battery I
will ever own.

Just my $.02

- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

 "I was put on this earth to accomplish a certain number of things;
    right now I'm so far behind, I'll never die"  --Calvin

------------------------------

From: proietto@dow.on.doe.ca (Fernando Proietto)
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 17:53:10 -0300
Subject: Re: electrical problems

> At night, when I would be stopped at a traffic light, engine at
>idle, the dash lights would flicker. Also, I could see the headlights
>flickering in sync with the dash lights when I was behind someone. It seemed
>to be OK while I was driving the car.
>
>I haven't done any diagnosing (not sure where to start). But over the past
>year, I have replaced the starter, the alternator, the battery, the coil.


Had the same problem too. Should of also changed the regulator. Located on 
the fire wall just in front of the passenger. Big black thing. That usually 
is the problem, but a new one is also prone to failure...My ligths would 
give a light show effect porpotional to RMP. 


>Periodically, I would have trouble starting the car. Sometimes, I would turn
>the key and nothing would happen. Silence. If I would wait a few seconds (or
>minutes), I could turn the key and it would start, like nothing was wrong. I
>didn't think this was related to the other electrical problem, until last
>week, and the car never started. It was weird.. with the key off, the clock
>would run. When I turned the key to on (not all the way to start), the clock
>would stop. Also, the interior lights. I had the door open, and the key out
>of the ignition, the lights were on. I fooled with the ignition housing with
>just my fingers, and the interior lights went out.

Check your ingnition switch in the steering column. May be worn after 20 
years plus of operation. 

Good Luck. Lets us know what happens.

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 13:39:20 -0300
Subject: Re: electrical problems

At 03:44 PM 5/12/96 -0300, you wrote:

>GROUNDS AGAIN: Electricity travels in a circle ... always.  In a car, the 
>positive is carried through the wires but the return path (to negative) 
>is almost always through the frame, block, and body panels.  

Ah, yes...check your grounds!!  GROUNDS, GROUNDS, GROUNDS!  I have a little
experience with that. ;)

- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

 "I was put on this earth to accomplish a certain number of things;
    right now I'm so far behind, I'll never die"  --Calvin

------------------------------

From: AMSOILL@aol.com
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 14:29:18 -0300
Subject: Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 #170 

In a message dated 96-05-08 21:25:47 EDT, you write:

>From: Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
>Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 23:16:59 -0300
>Subject: Automobile Humour
>
>Automobile Acronyms


  AMC = A Moving Catastrophe!

  BMW = Bad Motor Works!

  BUICK = Beat Up Iranian Cookie Cutter!

  Dodge = Dead or Dying Gorilla Excretment!
 
  FIAT = Found in a Toilet!

  FORD = Failed On Race Day!

  ISUZU = God Bless You! <g>

  MG = Mashed Genitals!

  PONTIAC = Poor Old ("N" word) Thinks It's A Cadillac!   (No offense meant)

  SAAB = Society of Assnine Automotive Bacteriologists!

 
                                                   Cheers,
                                                            Steve
                                 7 year AMSOIL Synthetic Lubricants Dealer

------------------------------

From: AMSOILL@aol.com
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 14:29:06 -0300
Subject: Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 #172 

In a message dated 96-05-11 18:45:19 EDT, you write:

>From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
>Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 23:16:22 -0300
>Subject: Re: crank is in 
>
>In a message dated 96-05-09 20:59:42 EDT, you write:
>
>>The crank from the guy in NY is in... it is indeed a 425 crank, 10-10, nice
>&
>>pretty, and with CL77 bearings, all ground & delivered for a mere $140. I
>>think
>>he has a 455 unit too if anyone is interested... Took about 3 days to get
>>here.
>>Packaging coulda been better, but here it is. I am happy.
>>
>>It's not BLUE either :)
>>Too bad it's not a forged 455 crank...
>>--
>>Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
>>wittchri@pilot.msu.edu
>
>What's his number? I might go that route rather than regrinding my 403's
>crank. Plus, since I'm in NY, I might get it in only two days!
>
>Does he only do cranks?


   For the best deal on crankshafts that have been machined by an *expert*,
contact - "Chippers Machine Shop", in Binghamton, N.Y. at 1-(607)-722-6817,
9:00-5:30 Monday-Friday and 9:00-12:30 Saturday.  Just ask for Bob Chipper,
owner/manager.  Tell him I sent you and he may be able to give you a better
price.  Couldn't hurt to ask.

   This fella has re-built several engines for me and used to be a pro drag
racer.  He knows his stuff!  Recently he re-built a 403 for me and he did a
top-notch job.  The beast runs like a top and has T-O-R-Q-U-E! <grin>

   He has a warehouse chuck full of older engines and parts, of any make.
 Give him a call, and I think you'll be glad you did.

                                       I hope this helps you out.

                                                  Cheers,
                                                         Steve Cashman
                             7 year AMSOIL Synthetic Lubricants Dealer

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 16:30:24 -0300
Subject: Re: electrical problems 

> Hello everyone..
> 
> I have noticed electrical problems with my '72 Cutlass 350 since last
> October. At night, when I would be stopped at a traffic light, engine at
> idle, the dash lights would flicker. Also, I could see the headlights
> flickering in sync with the dash lights when I was behind someone. It seemed
> to be OK while I was driving the car.
> 
> I haven't done any diagnosing (not sure where to start). But over the past
> year, I have replaced the starter, the alternator, the battery, the coil.
> 
> Periodically, I would have trouble starting the car. Sometimes, I would turn
> the key and nothing would happen. Silence. If I would wait a few seconds (or
> minutes), I could turn the key and it would start, like nothing was wrong. I
> didn't think this was related to the other electrical problem, until last
> week, and the car never started. It was weird.. with the key off, the clock
> would run. When I turned the key to on (not all the way to start), the clock
> would stop. Also, the interior lights. I had the door open, and the key out
> of the ignition, the lights were on. I fooled with the ignition housing with
> just my fingers, and the interior lights went out.
> 
> Anyway, the car is dead right now. Won't start. I haven't checked the
> battery to see if the car has killed it, but the battery is only a year old.
> I will check it, but assuming the battery is OK, what else could be wrong? I
> haven't replaced the ignition switch yet. Can I check that to see if it is OK?
> 
> Also, I did notice another sound when this flickering was happening.. a kind
> of clicking noise, coming from under the dash area, in the center. This
> clicking was also in sync with the dash light flickering. I don't know if
> the item that was clicking was causing the problems, or just clicking as a
> result of the problem.
> 
> Anyone want to hazard a guess?? Anyone had a similar problem?
> 
> Thanks for your help.
> 
> Lowell Paden
> '72 Olds Cutlass convertible 350 2bbl 191K miles.


My .02 cents...

A couple of people have mentioned grounds, and they are certainly something
to check, but they key (as mentioned before) is that you must complete
the circuit.  It does not sound like you have a short (which would be
completing the cicuit someplace you didn't want to).  It sounds like you
have a bad connection, and the circuit is not being completed somewhere
you want it to be.

It sounds like it is affecting every electrical subsystem in your car,
which suggests a connection near the battery.  On the other hand, it
sounds like it is in the ignition switch, which suggests the ignition
switch.  The ignition switch should not affect the headlights or the
interior lights.

If we assume it it the ignition switch, uh... well... it's the
ignition switch.

If we assume it is not the ignition switch, then I would look at
the connections close to the battery.  Grounds, cables, and the battery
itself may have a bad internal connection to the terminal.  My car has
the positive cable go right to the starter, and there is a smaller
wire that comes off the positive cable that powers everything else.  If
there is a bad connection there bad things happen.  Nothing works.
My battery isn't fastened down very well (I know, that makes me a bad
person... I need to grind off a bolt to remove the battery tray),
so this has stressed the connection a couple of times.  When that
connection goes intermittant, I see some of the symptoms, you have
described.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-8007    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v



 

------------------------------

From: Scott Robert Kietzmann <srobert@csd.uwm.edu>
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 16:32:30 -0300
Subject: unsubscribe me please

unsubscribe me please.

Thanks

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 17:05:40 -0300
Subject: Re: Visiting Detroit 

As Mike said, Lansing is 1.5 to 2 hours from Metro Detroit airport.

However, Lansing looks to be about 50 miles from Brooklyn, Michigan.

If you have not bought your tickets yet, Lansing is closer to Brooklyn,
than Detroit is.  You could fly into Lansing.

...Just read your message again, I see you're staying in downtown
Detroit, so I guess flying into Lansing is out.

If you are staying downtown, are you planning on hitting Greektown,
or Bricktown, or anything?

I could be talked into meeting up, and shooting the bull.

I might even go to the race.

Does anyone go to the Watkin's Glen race in August?

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-8007    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 18:00:22 -0300
Subject: SX

Okay so lemme get this straight about SX's....the W-32 SX is the rare one 
(100 made) and most SX's are NOT W-32's (6,000 whatever holiday coupes, 
etc).  The only year W-32 SX's were available was in 70 though regular 
SX's continued to 71.  The regular SX engine is the L31 4-bbl 455 with E 
code heads and 2" intakes, the L33 being 2-bbl, and the W-32 being 
identical to the 442 engine so 2.07" intakes.  The W-32 package also 
comes with the W-25 OAI system?  Is all of this correct people?

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: ws6transam@voyager.net (Daniel R Burk)
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 18:07:41 -0300
Subject: Re: Bryce's Olds-powered jet boat 

How about naming your boat " Oldsmarine"?
             Or,
        "Marine Apprehender by Ransom Olds Special Products Division"

        What about "Hondo Jetaway, by Oldsmobile maritime products"



Actually, I know someone up in Bay City, MI who has a 17 foot Olds 455 powered
Jet boat for sale for $3500.00 ... It's simply awesome to ride in.  I wear
my motorcycle helmet when I go riding in it because the 69 MPH wind peels your
eyelids back until you are so teary-eyed you have to let off the throttle.

I think you are really going to like that thing.  Have you considered fuel
injection, and turbocharging with a lake-water coupled intercooler?  Hmm...
The gears have begun to turn for me even as I write this...

        -- Dan.

 

------------------------------

From: "Lowell V. Paden, Jr." <lvpaden@freedomnet.com>
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 18:14:09 -0300
Subject: Re: electrical problems 

I have an update.. I couldn't put any time on the car today (hopefully
tomorrow evening I will), but I went out to turn the key. It cranked! I
think I will measure my cables, and get a new set. Any suggestions on this
topic? I usually go to the Advance Auto near me. They should have a good set
of cables that will meet OEM standards.. right?

Thanks again, for helping me keep my mind on getting the car back on the
road, as it is my normal daily driver. I enjoy driving it, and it helps keep
the miles off my '94 Intrepid (sorry). I actually enjoy driving the Olds
more than the newer car. It's more of what a real car should be, I guess.
Something even a shade-tree mechanic can work with. By working on the Olds
myself, I get a feeling of accomplishment when I drive it.

I'll keep everyone posted as I progress through this.


Lowell Paden
'72 Olds Cutlass convertible 350 2bbl 191K miles.



------------------------------

From: Bob Valentine <ravalent@liii.com>
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 18:19:57 -0300
Subject: Re: electrical problems

> Hello everyone..

> I have noticed electrical problems with my '72 Cutlass 350 since last
> October. At night, when I would be stopped at a traffic light, engine at
> idle, the dash lights would flicker. Also, I could see the headlights

      Dead/dying voltage regulator.

> flickering in sync with the dash lights when I was behind someone. It seemed
> to be OK while I was driving the car.

> Periodically, I would have trouble starting the car. 

    This would sound like a cable/ground problem.
    
> I will check it, but assuming the battery is OK, what else could be wrong? I
> haven't replaced the ignition switch yet. Can I check that to see if it is OK?

    Grounds, grounds, grounds.    Check the battery cables and connections.
The heavy purple wire which runs down to the "S" terminal on the starter 
is what activates the solenoid; on my '71 I put a extra terminal on it 
for a remote starter.    If you hit this with +12 from the battery and it 
cranks, then you know your problem is under the dash (probably).  IF it 
doesn't crank, you problem is between the battery and the starter.

> Anyone want to hazard a guess?? Anyone had a similar problem?

    These problems are usually traceable to a bad cable or bad ground.   
As soon as you get this fixed, I'd dump the old externally regulated 
alternator in favor of a 10SI or 12SI internally regulated alternator.

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                    --> ravalent@liii.com  <--
        "Experience varies directly with equipment ruined"

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 22:08:11 -0300
Subject: Re: electrical problems

Robert Lawrence wrote:
>
> A couple of people have mentioned grounds ... does not sound like you 
> have a short ... It sounds like you have a bad connection ...

Bob, I don't think anyone was suggesting a grounded hot wire (short to 
ground) but bad continuity through ground.

> It sounds like it is affecting every electrical subsystem in your car,
> which suggests a connection near the battery.

I agree.

> On the other hand, it sounds like it is in the ignition switch ...

I disagree...

> The ignition switch should not affect the headlights or the interior
> lights.

...for that very reason.  The switch provides power to the switched 
accessories and to the starter but not to the interior or running lights.

 
> If we assume it is not the ignition switch, then I would look at
> the connections close to the battery.

Yup.

> ... the battery itself may have a bad internal connection ...

Doubtful.  High internal resistance in the battery would prevent it from 
charging properly and give the typical "dead battery" starting problem.  
This would also decrease the load on the regulator and would be 
inconsistant with the flickering dash lights (low voltage / poor 
regulation).

> When that connection goes intermittant, I see some of the symptoms, you 
> have...

Absolutely.  Intermittant is the "key word" for sure.


The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 20:23:53 -0300
Subject: Out for a Drive Today

Was out with the wife and kids on a Mother's Day Sunday drive, and passed 
by the side of the road an early '50s Olds 88 with a "For Sale" sign in 
the window.  Had to stop and take a look.  Could not tell the exact year 
(I'm not familiar enough with Olds's of this vintage, 1949-53, to be able 
to tell them apart by year), but it was a 4-door sedan and had an "88" with 
the Rocket through it on the trunk lid.  

The car was, in short, a basket case.  Rust everywhere, paricularly in 
the floorboards.  70,000+ miles showed on the odometer, but who knows 
how accurate that was.  No one was around to ask.  

The asking price on the sign in the window was $1500, which seemed at 
least a factor of three too high to me.  I don't know if it ran or was 
driveable, but the license plate sticker expired in January '96 and 
hadn't been renewed.  All four tires looked ok, though, and held air.  I 
did not lift the hood.

Assuming that it ran, it would definitely be a #5 condition car, which my 
Old Cars price guide actually pegs at $1400-$1600 for '51s and '52s.  

I still wouldn't pay more than 1/3 of that price.  Unless it had the last 
part I needed to finish the restoration of another car.



Dan Gulino

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #173
********************************

