
oldsmobile-digest         Saturday, 27 April 1996      Volume 01 : Number 159


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: urbanch@magi.com (Chris Urban)
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 11:12:23 -0300
Subject: Re: clutches 

Paul I must have missed your last post asking about this. I usually just
delete all posts that I have seen before. I usually run automatics but have
built a few stick cars, maybe I can help.


 >Come on folks I know there are lots of manual trans-big block owners out 
>there! What kind of clutches are you using and can you make anyt 
>suggestions regarding them?
>
>%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
> I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
> revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
> information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
> Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
> been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
>%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: urbanch@magi.com (Chris Urban)
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 11:12:25 -0300
Subject: Re: Body to frame first? 

I found that putting it back together first is easier for the painter but
its real hard to prevent overspray from getting in through all the nooks and
crannies. When you paint everything disassembled you must spend a great deal
of time and patience wrappping body work so it won't scratch as you assemble
it but the end result is worth it.

>Hi all,
>
>I'm in the slow process of doing my first "complete body off resto" 
>on a '69 H/O, and I'm at the point where I need to figure out when to 
>bring the frame and body back together.
>
>I assumed that the body/panels should be painted first and 'baked', 
>and then put on the frame, but my body guy is saying that he'll do 
>everything to the body except the paint.  He then wants me to mate 
>the body/frame first, put the engine, tranny, etc. in and then give 
>it back to him for the final painting.  
>
>I don't think I'll be able to do any baking after all this.
>
>I know there are many pros and cons for both methods, does anyone 
>have any experience on this to share?
>
>Thanks,
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: Jon442@aol.com
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 11:54:29 -0300
Subject: Re: Body to frame first? 

In a message dated 96-04-26 09:16:05 EDT, you write:

>I'm in the slow process of doing my first "complete body off resto" 
>on a '69 H/O, and I'm at the point where I need to figure out when to 
>bring the frame and body back together.
>
>

I have done several restorations, and have found that the best way BY FAR is
to completely finish the rolling chassis in every respect, including mounting
the engine, trans, and all the lines. Have your painter paint your body in
pieces (fenders, hood, trunk, body shell, doors) and then carefully install
them back on the frame after they are painted. 

This allows the body panels to be jambed out better, and it avoids having
primer dust and overspray all over your newly finished chassis. It makes for
a MUCH cleaner job and a much nicer restoration. If your painter won't do it,
find a different painter.

Jon Wessel
H/OCA Director

------------------------------

From: JK McCall <jkmccall@clic.net>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 12:25:01 -0300
Subject: Astroroof

Quick question:

My 82 Delta 88 Royale Brougham has sprung a leak, seems all this wet 
weather we've been having lately has had an effect on the car's 14 year 
old seal.  The water seems to be collecting between the headliner and 
the roof itself, once saturated it starts to drip into the interior.  
Now all that would be fine if in fact I wanted a pool, but.....

OK, on to the question at hand, I've heard lots of talk on this list 
about factory manuals and am wondering if one of these would cover the 
CORRECT method for removing the ASTROROOF so that I can change the seal. 
 I've always had pretty good success at removing things but not so much 
when it comes time to replace the parts...  What I'm hoping for is that 
I don't have to remove the headliner to do this.  Of course what I hope 
for and what I'll end up having to do are usually 2 very different 
things.

If you think you can help me out drop me a line.

JK McCall

jkmccall@qbc.clic.net

"My boat is taking on water and the bilge pump is not working, what are 
we going to do Captain?"

------------------------------

From: Cary Yamamoto <yamamoto@unr.edu>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 12:37:31 -0300
Subject: '66 toro

O.K. Toro Fans:

I found a '66 Toro in the paper that says it has 73K miles.  Rechromed
bumpers and new interior.  Needs minor bodywork and paint.  $1200.00  
I might check it out this weekend.  Is this price reasonable?



Cary Yamamoto                                 University of NV, Reno
Coordinator,                                  Prospective Students/110
Prospective Students                          Reno, NV  89557
                                              (702) 784-4865 
	                                      (702) 784-1852 fax	 

------------------------------

From: "Dink" <heinle@jake.udayton.edu>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 13:47:33 -0300
Subject: Re: '66 toro

> O.K. Toro Fans:
> I might check it out this weekend.  Is this price reasonable?
> Cary Yamamoto                                 University of NV, Reno

Damn, that Virus is spreading like crazy!

Dink

!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~
Dink           Dayton, Ohio
80 Olds Delta 88 Royale  MSD, K&N, Dynomax, etc..
http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
- --

------------------------------

From: Dan Dale <daleds@okra.millsaps.edu>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 12:46:57 -0300
Subject: RE: '66 toro 

>O.K. Toro Fans:
>
>I found a '66 Toro in the paper that says it has 73K miles.  Rechromed
>bumpers and new interior.  Needs minor bodywork and paint.  $1200.00  
>I might check it out this weekend.  Is this price reasonable?

>Cary Yamamoto                                 University of NV, Reno

dammit....you never see stuff like that in the paper where I live!

sounds like a good deal depending on their definition of minor body work.
wonder what that "new" interior looks like considering the price? a diamond
shaped tuck and roll maybe  :)



- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
$Daniel Dale  daleds@okra.millsaps.edu f-list since 2/95 http://www.millsaps.$
$edu/~daleds/index.html  cars: 1972 Cotner-Bevington Oldsmobile 98 Endloader,$
$1966 Pontiac GTO, 1973 Imperial LeBaron, 1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-X 5.7TPI$  
$1955 Cadillac Seville, (2) 1969 Cadillac DeVille Convertibles(one for parts)$ 
$1976 Cadillac Series 75 Fleetwood Brougham, 1961 Imperial Custom            $
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 12:06:56 -0300
Subject: Re: Astroroof 

>OK, on to the question at hand, I've heard lots of talk on this list 
>about factory manuals and am wondering if one of these would cover the 
>CORRECT method for removing the ASTROROOF so that I can change the seal.

I can look in mine; it's a '93 edition but the mechanism and the design
is probably real similar. Any chance you might just have a clogged drain
tube up there somewhere? Not sure exactly where it would be; Ford runs
theirs down the A pillars so you might try poking around the front corners
and see if there's a blocked drain there...?

> I've always had pretty good success at removing things but not so much 
>when it comes time to replace the parts...  What I'm hoping for is that 
>I don't have to remove the headliner to do this.

Well, you never liked that headliner anyway, right?  :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 13:24:26 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds History Center

> From oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca Fri Apr 26 04:31 EDT 1996
> Date: 	Fri, 26 Apr 1996 02:21:06 -0300
> From: GUEISEPPI THE BARBER <JJF96@uno.cc.geneseo.edu>
> Subject: Re: Olds History Center
> hey there...  we need some standard in declaring "what is old" and "what 
> is new" and the terms used to define this. 
> 
> i saw a message saying about someone needing help on an "older" 
> oldsmobile...  i was looking carefully seeing if it is older (like my 47 
> olds).  Instead, i see "my 1960 olds...."   i say the "older" is around 1957 
> and prior vintage is pre-war design (up through and including 1948).
> 
> any other ideas about this?

You call a '57 older.  Why that's nothing!  Sonny, when I was your age
we drove cars a hundred years old, and still called them new.  And
we had to drive them back and forth to work each day.  And it was up hill,
both ways, through three feet of snow.  And we were happy to do it.

Sheez, kids these days.  

When people tell me about their new 1996 car, I tell them I have a 98.

But, what really leaves them speechless is when I say I have a 7.6
liter engine.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | A not older 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible   .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-8007    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 06:21:54 -0300
Subject: Re: Upcoming Weekend Projects (and what are *you* doing?) 

     Well, I'm jealous.  No three day weekend here, but at least I get off 
     a few hours early today since I spent last night fighting broken 
     computer hardware. . .
     
     It is my b-day Sunday, so my SO is graciously giving me the weekend 
     for whatever I want, so the '84 H/O gets the time. . .
     
     - Might swing by the junkyard after work if it's not raining and if 
     the yard isn't a "Giant Mud Pit" (tm).
     - Time for an oil change and chassis lube.
     - Gonna change the O2 sensor.  I don't know that it's bad for sure, 
     but it's been running rough lately, bad gas mileage, and the orignal 
     sensor has 73k on it.  With the price of gas recently, If I get .1 
     more mpg it'll pay for itself shortly. . .
     - Wash and wax, maybe touch-up paint to some small rock chips on the 
     rocker panels.
     - Look over my power seat to find out exactly what part that is under 
     there that's broke (I can see it, I just need more info so I can get a 
     new one).
     - I may take apart the center console and clean out the 12 years of 
     dust from the lightning rods, and lube 'em.  As well as replacing the 
     light in the storage compartment, and looking to see if there's space 
     underneath it to mount one of those microwave parameter sensors for my 
     alarm.
     - Finally, I may do some yardwork and rake and pull weeds and stuff in 
     preparation for the gravel to make some additional parking spots.
     
     Unfortunately, swap-meet action here is about nil.  It's so bad in 
     fact, I'm seriously considering organizing one myself.  There's a few 
     local hot-rod clubs that go cruising or hang out at a few burger 
     joints or bars, but it's mostly pre-1950 stuff.
     
     We just got the "Speedvision" channel here in Spokane.  It's pretty 
     cool!  Lots of auto stuff, but just as much boats and planes.
     
     Tom L.


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Upcoming Weekend Projects (and what are *you* doing?)
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    4/25/96 6:51 PM


Well, I'm going to spend a long, romantic 3-day weekend with my Oldsmobiles! 
If the weather holds, it looks like I'll
     [stuff snipped]
Then watch whatever automotive there is on ESPN.
     
What fun is everyone going to make for themselves this weekend?
     

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 13:50:21 -0300
Subject: Re: '66 toro 

In a message dated 96-04-26 11:44:38 EDT, you write:

>O.K. Toro Fans:
>
>I found a '66 Toro in the paper that says it has 73K miles.  Rechromed
>bumpers and new interior.  Needs minor bodywork and paint.  $1200.00  
>I might check it out this week

Cary,

On the mere surface of the ad, it sounds like a good deal. But,
beware,,,,,that 73K could (EASILY) be 173K  (higher or lower) as even my
grandmother of 91 years can figure out how do dissconnect the cable.

Beyond body work, frame, interior etc. You really want to make sure that the
following are in good shape (as they are the $$$$$$ parts to fix/replace....

1. Grearbox/tourque converter
2. Half shafts/CV joints (inner and outer) If the boots look like they have
been ripped for     a long time...REALLY check it out!
3. Ball joints (especially lower)

Other points to consider (but not as expensive)

1. Brakes  (wheel cylinders, brake lines, stock remaining on drums) etc
2. Exhaust  (typical complete exhaust > $400)
3. All the little minor stuff that tends to drive you nuts (factor it in)
    a. Heater blower motor (a real pain to change out)
    b. Electric window motors (if so eqippped) etc
    c. If a Deluxe with climatrol (switch boxes, SPECIAL heater controls, air
cond..etc.

Other than that, you be the judge...Its not a bad price if it is in fact what
you think it is.

Let me know after you look at it....get me more details....etc.

Must be the omnipresent, ubiquitous, recurring, spring T-Virus. 

Keep in touch,

Greg Kalkhoff  (Typhoid Toro)

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 12:48:16 -0300
Subject: Re: Upcoming Weekend Projects (and what are *you* doing?) 

> - I may take apart the center console and clean out the 12 years of 
> dust from the lightning rods, and lube 'em.  As well as replacing the 
> light in the storage compartment,

When mine quit it turned out that the bulb was fine but the little popup 
pin needed to come out about another 1/32" to close the contacts. Since it 
fell apart while I was removing it, it seemed like a good time to rebuild 
it.  ;-)  Wiping a little Vaseline on the pin and stretching the spring
just a teensy bit was enough to get it working again.

There's almost no slack in the harness to the light, so you have to mess
around with unplugging its wires before you can lift out the compartment
liner. I found the previous owner of my car had spliced in extra wire to
make the job easier.

> and looking to see if there's space underneath it to mount one of those
> microwave parameter sensors for my alarm.

Yes, if you don't need a ton of space.

There is a harness connector just under the leading edge of the console
to unplug before you lift the console out, so you don't rip the storage
compartment light and prindle backlight out by their roots.

> - Finally, I may do some yardwork and rake and pull weeds and stuff in 
> preparation for the gravel to make some additional parking spots.

You'll need to get rid of all that stuff down the right side as well, plus
you promised to weed the pachysandra _last_ _month_ and I still haven't
seen any progress on that either. And is that garden hose going to be
lying in the middle of the yard for the rest of the summer, or what?

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 15:15:54 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Upcoming Weekend Projects (and what are *you* doing?) 

          
     
          ...- Gonna change the O2 sensor.  I don't know that it's bad 
          for sure, ...
          
          I thought that a bad O2 sensor would show up as a trouble 
          code in the computer, and thus an illuminated "Check Engine" 
          light.  Could be a waste of money...
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/o
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 15:25:49 -0300
Subject: Re: please post FAQ here 

Posting the FAQ, pkzipped or not, through the mail list would not be a good idea
because of its size - 56KB and 115KB.  For now, with each "release" I will send 
it to the personal e-mail address of each current list member.  I'll send it to 
other requesters within a working day or so.

I mailed an unzipped version on 4/12 to everyone that was currently on the list.
A couple sends burped though.

If you are new to the list or are otherwise "FAQless" (tm) (:)) please send a 
request to me.  I'll send the pkzipped version unless told otherwise.

The FAQ is in the process of being available via ftp and Bryceman's web page, 
but these things take time, so please be patient!

David Brown                             (312) 702-9157
    "Oldsmobile - powerful roadsters with big V8s"
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 17:09:05 -0300
Subject: Re: '66 toro

Cary Yamamoto wrote:
> 
> O.K. Toro Fans:
> 
> ... '66 Toro ... $1200.00

Buy, buy, buy!

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 17:13:34 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds History Center

Robert Lawrence wrote:
> 
> > From: GUEISEPPI THE BARBER <JJF96@uno.cc.geneseo.edu>
> > ... i say the "older" is around 1957 ...

> ... Sonny, when I was your age we drove cars a hundred years old...

And don't forget the coal you had to mine to keep them running!


The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 07:51:49 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Upcoming Weekend Projects (and what are *you* doing?) 

     Well, thanks, but when I said I needed to replace the light, I mean I 
     need to *replace* the light.  It's gone completely, and so is the 
     switch.  Maybe that's why it's gone. . . Hoping to find another at the 
     boneyard.
     
     Why yes, that garden hose *is* going to be lying there for the rest of 
     the summer, except when I pick it up to wash the car with.  :-)


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Upcoming Weekend Projects (and what are *you* doing?)
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    4/26/96 10:21 AM

> - I may take apart the center console and clean out the 12 years of 
> dust from the lightning rods, and lube 'em.  As well as replacing the 
> light in the storage compartment,
     
When mine quit it turned out that the bulb was fine but the little popup 
pin needed to come out about another 1/32" to close the contacts. Since it 
fell apart while I was removing it, it seemed like a good time to rebuild 
it.  ;-)  Wiping a little Vaseline on the pin and stretching the spring 
just a teensy bit was enough to get it working again.
     
There's almost no slack in the harness to the light, so you have to mess 
around with unplugging its wires before you can lift out the compartment 
liner. I found the previous owner of my car had spliced in extra wire to 
make the job easier.

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 17:36:04 -0300
Subject: Re: Upcoming Weekend Projects (and what are *you* doing?)

Geez, I wish I could spend the weekend with the Olds.  This is Linc*ln 
weekend.  Got to drive up to PA for the daughter's wedding on Wednesday 
so it's wash-&-wax, change-the-oil, etc.  Bummer.

Have fun, guys.

The 66 Toro and Mike

PS: Happy Birthday, Tom


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 08:21:37 -0300
Subject: Re[3]: Upcoming Weekend Projects (and what are *you* doing?) 

     Yeah, if it was outright bad and not working at all, then it would 
     show up.  I've been told by several people, a few professional 
     mechanics, that you should replace the O2 sensor every 40-60k miles.  
     It's not listed as a maintenance item, but it should be.  They get 
     lazy over time, coated with gook, etc. and don't register as quickly 
     or as accurately as new.
     
     You're right, it might be wasted money.  Not much, only $25 though.  
     If it doesn't make a difference, then I guess I have a spare to use 
     someday when I get headers.

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re[2]: Upcoming Weekend Projects (and what are *you* doing?)
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    4/26/96 10:51 AM
     
          ...- Gonna change the O2 sensor.  I don't know that it's bad 
          for sure, ...
     
          I thought that a bad O2 sensor would show up as a trouble 
          code in the computer, and thus an illuminated "Check Engine" 
          light.  Could be a waste of money...

------------------------------

From: bryce_smith@442.com (Bryceman)
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 15:32:45 -0300
Subject: Re: Upcoming Weekend Projects (and what are *you* doing?) 

>Well, I'm going to spend a long, romantic 3-day weekend with my Oldsmobiles!
>If the weather holds, it looks like I'll

Sunday I am going to look at and try to buy a "pretty straight" '69 Cutlass
convertible. I think (hope) it can be had for $1500.00.
Otherwise I will just be driving the Apprehender around all weekend scaring
old ladies and children by barking the tires.


 EXCESSIVE IRON rules the road!
'65 442
'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender
 bryceman@442.com
 www.442.com

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 14:32:51 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Upcoming Weekend Projects (and what are *you* doing?) 

>     Well, thanks, but when I said I needed to replace the light, I mean I 
>     need to *replace* the light.  It's gone completely, and so is the 
>     switch.  Maybe that's why it's gone. . .

Yeah, it's a one-piece job.

>     Hoping to find another at the boneyard.

Pry it out _carefully_. The round aluminum end cap with the pin sticking
up through it that you see when you lift the lid has really large tabs
on the underside that can distort a heckuva lot before it lets go. Then
it comes off the end of the socket, the spring comes rocketing out and
shoots through the open door into the grass, and the black plastic pin 
falls into the darkness under the driver's seat.

Grab as much of the wiring harness as you can, too, ideally back to the 
harness connector under the front edge of the dash.

I think it's the same part as that for the glove box on other GM cars
(not the Cutlass series, which uses a switch on the latch). If you strike 
out, I think I might have a spare one in the basement but you'll have to
improvise your own harness. It's a real no-brainer.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: bryce_smith@442.com (Bryceman)
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 15:41:30 -0300
Subject: Shirts 

I shipped 'em. All of 'em this morning UPS ground. Look for them by late
next week. BTW Greg, the going rate from Topeka to Halifax is $11.00 for a
1lb box. Jeez ;-)
(FYI only, don't even think about trying to recash me the shipping) :-)


 EXCESSIVE IRON rules the road!
'65 442
'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender
 bryceman@442.com
 www.442.com

------------------------------

From: bryce_smith@442.com (Bryceman)
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 16:22:10 -0300
Subject: Shirts-Oh yeah... 

Oops, I forgot to mention, please send me email as you receive your shirts.
I want to make sure they all arrive and want to find out what you folks
think of them.
Thanks.


 EXCESSIVE IRON rules the road!
'65 442
'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender
 bryceman@442.com
 www.442.com

------------------------------

From: JK McCall <jkmccall@clic.net>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 16:24:32 -0300
Subject: Re: Astroroof

Andrew C. Green wrote:

> is probably real similar. Any chance you might just have a clogged drain
> tube up there somewhere? Not sure exactly where it would be; Ford runs
> theirs down the A pillars so you might try poking around the front corners
> and see if there's a blocked drain there...?
> Thanks Andrew, now I've got something to go on...  Not too sure exactly where to look 
but I'll have a closer look right now.  Hmmm, drains... now there's an idea.  Been 
working on my Ch*vy truck too much lately, zapping brain cells.

JK McCall

------------------------------

From: "fursmand" <fursmand@smtpgate.avi.af.mil>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 14:56:38 -0300
Subject: JUST STARTED 

        Well, my name is Don and I am a new subscriber as of four days ago 
and you are all making me Oldsmobilesick (not homesick).  I am in the Air 
Force stationed at Aviano Air Base in Italy and have been here for the last 
four years.  I left my car behind because I pictured tiny roads and crazy 
drivers.  The roads in the north aren't bad at all and it is the Americans 
that are the crazy drivers.  They all think they need to drive like the 
Italians.  There highway out here is a lot of fun because when traffic 
moves it moves.  The Italian police caught a German going 164 MPH returning 
to Germany.              
        I left my car back in upstate NY where it is and has been up on 
jackstands for the last 4 years in my parents garage.  The only reason it 
is allowed to stay in the garage is my mom has a soft spot for my 76 
Cutlass Supreme Brougham.  I don't have anything close to what most of you 
except my engine is out of a 72 Tornado.  I have received a lot of junk 
motors from friends because they knew I liked Oldsmobile.  All the parts 
are generic nothing out of the ordinary.  
        I have decided to leave active duty and will be going into the 
reserves and returning to NY to try out the real world as everyone in the 
military call it and are scared of it.  I look at it as a challenge not 
insanity like most.  I have some job opportunities back in the states along 
with the possibility of going to college for drafting.  I was wondering if 
any of you know of any good job openings in NY around the Utica to Albany 
areas.  I am presently working in the passenger terminal and like working 
with the public.  I am hazardous certified up until August September time 
frame.  I have loadplanned C-130, C-141, C-17, C5, and L-100 with rolling 
stock, normal cargo and also passengers.  I would appreciate any help I 
could get from all of you.
        Back to Oldsmobile, is there anyone else who feels that Oldsmobile 
needs to get back into the muscle cars as Chevy and Ford still are?  We 
just need one special production rear wheel drive 442 using today's 
technology.  I think we could run them all over but reality won't let it 
ever happen will it?
        Well, got to go I stayed an extra hour at work to read some of the 
111 messages you all send.  Trust me it is 111 in 1-2 days.  
                

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 17:40:45 -0300
Subject: San Diego; was: Shirts 

Excellent!  Hope to get it by Friday.

May 3-12 I'm attending the Sybase database conference in San Diego.  Hope 
to wear it there.  BTW, anyone on this list live out that way?  Maybe 
interested in checking out some parts yards, showing your Olds', grabbing a 
beer?  Reply to my e-mail address.

David Brown                             (312) 702-9157
    "Oldsmobile - powerful roadsters with big V8s"
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu    

- ---------------------
I shipped 'em. All of 'em this morning UPS ground. Look for them by late
next week. 

 EXCESSIVE IRON rules the road!
'65 442
'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender
 bryceman@442.com
 www.442.com

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 15:36:53 -0300
Subject: Re: JUST STARTED 

>        Well, my name is Don and I am a new subscriber as of four days ago 
>and you are all making me Oldsmobilesick (not homesick).

Welcome aboard...

>Their highway out here is a lot of fun because when traffic 
>moves it moves.  The Italian police caught a German going 164 MPH returning 
>to Germany.

My first thought was, "What was he driving?" 
My second thought was, "Forget that; what were the _police_ driving?"  :-)
              
>        I left my car back in upstate NY where it is and has been up on 
>jackstands for the last 4 years in my parents garage.  The only reason it 
>is allowed to stay in the garage is my mom has a soft spot for my 76 
>Cutlass Supreme Brougham.

Heh-heh. We should dispatch somebody on this list who's in New York to
go over and photograph your car for you, then put it up on the web site
so you can take a look at it from Italy whenever you miss seeing it. 
Any volunteers?

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 16:55:57 -0300
Subject: Re: Mysterious paper (broadcast sheet)

> >That piece of paper you found is a computer print-out of certain options and 
> dates. If you read JWO the March or April issue addressed these print-outs. 
> I've had 2-3 cars I've found these in. Some had build sheets also and some 
> didn't. You must contact one of the OLDS club advisors for your type of car 
> and he may be able to help youdecode this paper. Hope this helps you some.

> 
> I've found those computer card trim tags under the rear seat on cars as old as 
> ~1962.  I think they are sort of a forerunner to the broadcast sheet.
> 

	I found a pair of thoes under the rotting seat in my '60.  I 
recognized a couple of the numbers from the vin and body tag, but most 
I'd never seen before.  When I wrote the Olds History Center, I 
included all that info, but unfortunatly they said they couldn't 
decipher them :(  Not really sure who could.  Any ideas?

		
			Scott
		1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98  

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 20:04:57 -0300
Subject: Re: JUST STARTED

Hey, Don,

Aviano Air Base, huh.  Nice place.  Ever get over to Pompei?

> The Italian police caught a German going 164 MPH returning to Germany.

Yea, I spent 3 1/2 years in Germany (Sembach & Wiesbaden AB - 30471).  
They all drive like that.

Bummer leaving the car in NY.  I had my first 66 Toro in Germany -- what 
a blast.  Scared the kraut out of the Krauts.

Don't let the lifers scare you.  When I left after 7 years they said 
"You'll be back".  Wrong!  Still don't regret it.

Can't help much with NY, maybe some of the other guy's can.

> ... is there anyone else who feels that Oldsmobile needs to get back 
> into the muscle cars as Chevy and Ford still are?

Yup.  Bummed me out when Harry Gant retired.  I miss watching him and his 
Olds.  So now I root for Ernie.  Would love to see a new RWD car out 
there.  Who knows,  Chrysler is getting back in it a bit ... IROC, Super 
Trucks.

> 111 messages in 1-2 days.

Yackey bunch, aren't we?

BTW: What's the name of the resturant at the very top of that real, tall 
hotel in Naples.  Worst Italian food I ever had.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: "fursmand" <fursmand@smtpgate.avi.af.mil>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 16:14:32 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: JUST STARTED 

>        Well, my name is Don and I am a new subscriber as of four days ago 
>and you are all making me Oldsmobilesick (not homesick).

Welcome aboard...

>Their highway out here is a lot of fun because when traffic 
>moves it moves.  The Italian police caught a German going 164 MPH returning 
>to Germany.

My first thought was, "What was he driving?" 
My second thought was, "Forget that; what were the _police_ driving?"  :-)
He was driving one of Germans favorites a Mercedes and as we have in the 
states the have lasers along with Alfa Romeo's and they carry an automatic 
machine-gun

>        I left my car back in upstate NY where it is and has been up on 
>jackstands for the last 4 years in my parents garage.  The only reason it 
>is allowed to stay in the garage is my mom has a soft spot for my 76 
>Cutlass Supreme Brougham.

Heh-heh. We should dispatch somebody on this list who's in New York to 
go over and photograph your car for you, then put it up on the web site 
so you can take a look at it from Italy whenever you miss seeing it. 
Any volunteers?

You'd have to clear off my mom's refrigerator and that would take days.  I 
went home on leave ten months ago and I could barely find my Cutlass.


Yes, I am still at work I just had some work handed to me last minute.

Don

------------------------------

From: "Dink" <heinle@jake.udayton.edu>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 18:24:17 -0300
Subject: Re: people on list; was Re: San Diego; 

> May 3-12 I'm attending the Sybase database conference in San Diego.  Hope 

I was just wondering what type of people we have on the list?  I mean 
like 
1. total computer nerd
2. total car nerd
3. little of both
4. lot of both

It seemed like everybody on the f-body list was either a programmer, 
or network admin or something like.  It seems we are more diverse, 
and a hell of a lot more greasy.  I've never heard of anybody on the  
other list going out some old guys house, for vista cruiser so aaa 
could tow it, just for a set a heads. Which is cool don't get me wrong 
Bob.   Where was this post going again?

Dink
part computer nerd, part olds nerd

!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~
Dink           Dayton, Ohio
80 Olds Delta 88 Royale  MSD, K&N, Dynomax, etc..
http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
- --

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 17:24:07 -0300
Subject: stalling

Still having problems with my engine stalling...need some help!!  


Well, I put in two bottles of STP Water Remover.  Each bottle says it treats
up to 20 gallons; right now there's only about half a tank of gas, so it's a
pretty concentrated treatment.  Still stalls occasionally.  There's no rhyme
or reason to it...stalls whenever it feels like.  Idling, cruising down the
road, or accelerating.  Doesn't seem to be rpm related, but I may replace
the fuel pump, anyway.  Dropping the tank is the last resort.  I have a
couple questions.  Does the tank have to be completely empty?  Do I have to
drop the tank to access the sending unit, or can it be accessed through the
trunk floor?  What do you clean it out with?  That's all I can think of for
now...

I'm starting to wonder if the problem isn't a mechanical one with the
engine.  Though it's running fine and not missing or anything, after it
stalls and I restart it, I can sometimes hear, down low on the drivers side
of the engine, a clicking noise for a couple seconds.  Only hear it right
after I restart the engine.  And when it stalls, it just quits.  No warning.
One second it's running, the next second, it's quit.  Sometimes if I take it
out of gear right when it stalls, the engine will still be turning, and it
will restart (that's only happened two times out of the couple dozen times
it's stalled in the past two days...)

Thanks for the info and help!!

- --
Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 16:42:33 -0300
Subject: Re: stalling 

>Though it's running fine and not missing or anything, after it
>stalls and I restart it, I can sometimes hear, down low on the drivers side
>of the engine, a clicking noise for a couple seconds.  Only hear it right
>after I restart the engine.  And when it stalls, it just quits.  No warning.
>One second it's running, the next second, it's quit.

Maybe some electrical problems... maybe old plug wires are shorting to
the block or some other ground (the clicking noise), or you've got some
loose connections at the starter or alternator -- something capable of
interrupting the ignition at random intervals. What shape is the coil in,
too? Are any plug wires (or the coil wire) chafing anywhere?

>Sometimes if I take it
>out of gear right when it stalls, the engine will still be turning, and it
>will restart (that's only happened two times out of the couple dozen times
>it's stalled in the past two days...)

I would say that the engine shifts slightly on its mounts, just enough to
shake the loose connection back together, or the grounding short apart, and
the ignition system comes back for you.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Dave Voorhis <dave@armchair.mb.ca>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 17:48:52 -0300
Subject: Re: people on list; was Re: San Diego;  

At 06:24 PM 26/04/96 -0300, you wrote:

>I was just wondering what type of people we have on the list?  I mean 
>like 
>1. total computer nerd
>2. total car nerd
>3. little of both
>4. lot of both

"4. lot of both"   Add to that "total motorcycle nerd."

Dave Voorhis; lotsa Toros, lotsa motorcycles, lotsa computers.
dave@armchair.mb.ca
http://www.armchair.mb.ca/~dave

------------------------------

From: Dave Voorhis <dave@armchair.mb.ca>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 17:57:24 -0300
Subject: Re: stalling 

At 05:24 PM 23/04/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Still having problems with my engine stalling...need some help!!  

Check the fuel pump.  I had one go in a '66 Pontiac, with similar symptoms
before it gave out completely.

Also, you might check the ignition resistor (or whatever that thing is
called) -- maybe it's becoming intermittent, though the usual symptom, as I
recall, is that the engine will run on the 'Start' position of the key
(which bypasses the resistor) but not on 'Run'.  Or maybe GM cars don't do
that.  Or do they even have that resistor?  It's been a while since I've
done any under-hood stuff, and my memory is... uh... what were we talking about?

Check the ignition system wiring, too.

Hell, check everything in the ignition system.  You don't wanna pull the
tank to fix a bad coil...

Dave Voorhis, one of those @#$%!! Toro guys.
dave@armchair.mb.ca
http://www.armchair.mb.ca/~dave

------------------------------

From: "fursmand" <fursmand@smtpgate.avi.af.mil>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 16:56:54 -0300
Subject: Re: stalling 

Dave,
        This sounds like my Alfa Romeo when it had a vacuum leak from a 
crack in one of the carbs.  As for the noise I don't know the cars here in 
Italy all have little Gremlins in them.  One thing I have learned here is 
really expect the unexpected.

Don sends


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: stalling
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at SMTPGATE
Date:    4/26/96 21:42


Still having problems with my engine stalling...need some help!!  


Well, I put in two bottles of STP Water Remover.  Each bottle says it treats 
up to 20 gallons; right now there's only about half a tank of gas, so it's a 
pretty concentrated treatment.  Still stalls occasionally.  There's no rhyme 
or reason to it...stalls whenever it feels like.  Idling, cruising down the 
road, or accelerating.  Doesn't seem to be rpm related, but I may replace 
the fuel pump, anyway.  Dropping the tank is the last resort.  I have a 
couple questions.  Does the tank have to be completely empty?  Do I have to 
drop the tank to access the sending unit, or can it be accessed through the 
trunk floor?  What do you clean it out with?  That's all I can think of for 
now...

I'm starting to wonder if the problem isn't a mechanical one with the 
engine.  Though it's running fine and not missing or anything, after it 
stalls and I restart it, I can sometimes hear, down low on the drivers side 
of the engine, a clicking noise for a couple seconds.  Only hear it right 
after I restart the engine.  And when it stalls, it just quits.  No warning. 
One second it's running, the next second, it's quit.  Sometimes if I take it 
out of gear right when it stalls, the engine will still be turning, and it 
will restart (that's only happened two times out of the couple dozen times 
it's stalled in the past two days...)

Thanks for the info and help!!

- --
Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme 
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 16:57:58 -0300
Subject: Re: stalling 

>Also, you might check the ignition resistor (or whatever that thing is
>called) -- maybe it's becoming intermittent, though the usual symptom, as I
>recall, is that the engine will run on the 'Start' position of the key
>(which bypasses the resistor) but not on 'Run'.

That would be Chryslers, with the old white ceramic resistor mounted on
the firewall with two wires connected via push-on connectors. When the
connectors get tired or loose, the ignition cuts in and out. When the
resistor burns through, the engine only fires while it's cranking, as
you described. Old Chrysler owners -- er, owners of old Chryslers -- oh,
never mind -- learned to carry a spare resistor in the glovebox.

>Or maybe GM cars don't do
>that.  Or do they even have that resistor?  It's been a while since I've
>done any under-hood stuff, and my memory is... uh... what were we talking
>about?

We were talking about why you haven't sent your $30 annual subscription
renewal to the address below...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "fursmand" <fursmand@smtpgate.avi.af.mil>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 16:47:25 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: JUST STARTED 

Hey Mike,
        Just wanted to say thanks for writing back about getting out.  I 
have a friend that wants to open a speed shop or a bar and I told him we 
should open both.  Do you have any ideas about VA loans?  I haven't gone to 
Family support yet about it.  I think that as long as I keep one foot in 
the Government door the better off I will be in the long run.
        Had the chance at a 69 455 someone bought up in Germany and brought 
it down here.  Left my name and number at the hobby shop for the owner to 
call and I received nothing.  Found out two months later when the hobby 
shop moved they junked the engine rather than call me.  Said they lost the 
number?   I didn't have anything to put it in but I could have found a way 
to get it to the states.
        Anyone know the difference between a 68 Buick Super T400 and a 
normal T400?  I looked in books but they don't tell of any differences.
    
Don sends



______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: JUST STARTED
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at SMTPGATE
Date:    4/26/96 21:14


Hey, Don,

Aviano Air Base, huh.  Nice place.  Ever get over to Pompei?

> The Italian police caught a German going 164 MPH returning to Germany.

Yea, I spent 3 1/2 years in Germany (Sembach & Wiesbaden AB - 30471).  
They all drive like that.

Bummer leaving the car in NY.  I had my first 66 Toro in Germany -- what 
a blast.  Scared the kraut out of the Krauts.

Don't let the lifers scare you.  When I left after 7 years they said 
"You'll be back".  Wrong!  Still don't regret it.

Can't help much with NY, maybe some of the other guy's can.

> ... is there anyone else who feels that Oldsmobile needs to get back 
> into the muscle cars as Chevy and Ford still are?

Yup.  Bummed me out when Harry Gant retired.  I miss watching him and his 
Olds.  So now I root for Ernie.  Would love to see a new RWD car out 
there.  Who knows,  Chrysler is getting back in it a bit ... IROC, Super 
Trucks.

> 111 messages in 1-2 days.

Yackey bunch, aren't we?

BTW: What's the name of the resturant at the very top of that real, tall 
hotel in Naples.  Worst Italian food I ever had.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: "fursmand" <fursmand@smtpgate.avi.af.mil>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 17:07:04 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: stalling 

I think that the connection could definitely be it.  Take a look at that 
lovely braided wire that connects to the firewall.  I am slowly starting to 
remember some of the little annoying problems I had.
Don sends 


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: stalling
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at SMTPGATE
Date:    4/26/96 22:02


>Though it's running fine and not missing or anything, after it
>stalls and I restart it, I can sometimes hear, down low on the drivers side 
>of the engine, a clicking noise for a couple seconds.  Only hear it right 
>after I restart the engine.  And when it stalls, it just quits.  No warning. 
>One second it's running, the next second, it's quit.

Maybe some electrical problems... maybe old plug wires are shorting to 
the block or some other ground (the clicking noise), or you've got some 
loose connections at the starter or alternator -- something capable of 
interrupting the ignition at random intervals. What shape is the coil in, 
too? Are any plug wires (or the coil wire) chafing anywhere?

>Sometimes if I take it
>out of gear right when it stalls, the engine will still be turning, and it 
>will restart (that's only happened two times out of the couple dozen times 
>it's stalled in the past two days...)

I would say that the engine shifts slightly on its mounts, just enough to 
shake the loose connection back together, or the grounding short apart, and 
the ignition system comes back for you.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431 
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com 
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 18:06:00 -0300
Subject: Re: stalling

> Maybe some electrical problems... maybe old plug wires are shorting to
> the block or some other ground (the clicking noise), or you've got some
> loose connections at the starter or alternator -- something capable of
> interrupting the ignition at random intervals. What shape is the coil in,
> too? Are any plug wires (or the coil wire) chafing anywhere?
> 
> Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431

Hey!  I had that problem.  I was finally able to trace by following 
the trail of smoke.  I knew mine was electical because it was bad 
enough to reset the digital clock on the radio.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-8007    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 19:45:26 -0300
Subject: Re: stalling 

          OK, first the tank.  Yes, you do need to drop the tank to 
          access the sending unit/pickup assembly, which is in the top 
          of the tank (usually...I lost track of what body it was 
          again).  I'm working from my early (64-72) A-body experience 
          here, but I'm sure the G-bodies are similar.  (Anything 
          built after 72 is "new" as far as I'm concerned.  In fact, I 
          think cars and music both peaked between 1955 and 1972)  
          Where was I?  Oh yeah...the tank should be held in with two 
          straps, each of which is retained with the world's longest 
          bolt at the back end of the strap.  The tank doesn't need to 
          be empty, so long as you don't mind a gasoline shampoo (and 
          a much heavier load to lower).  Actually, it will be 
          impossible to get _all_ of the gas out of the tank anyway - 
          just run the gas gauge down to empty.
          
          I don't have any good recommendations on a tank cleaning 
          solution.  I'd suggest taking the tank to a shop to have 
          this done.  Also check the inlet screen on the pickup when 
          you get it out of the tank.  The inlet/sender is held in 
          with a bayonet-lock ring, which requires a special tool to 
          engage the tabs for removal (I, of course, use a hammer and 
          screwdriver).  Oh yeah, don't forget to disconnect the fuel 
          lines and sending unit wire before dropping the tank.
          
          Of course, I agree with the others who have suggested that 
          your problem may be ignition/electrical.  Intermittent 
          electrical problems are the worst.  I once owned a 68 442 
          which would periodically and without reason blow the fuse 
          for the instrument panel lights and taillights.  This would 
          continue for a few weeks, then the problem would just as 
          mysteriously disappear for six months or so.  After spending 
          a significant amount of time studying the wiring diagram in 
          the service manual, I finally determined that the wire for 
          the underhood light is also on that fuse.  Wait...I don't 
          have an underhood light!
          
          Turns out that the wire which would have plugged into the 
          underhood light was hanging down from the harness on the 
          firewall and would periodically come to rest on the exhaust 
          header...which of course would ground the wire and blow the 
          fuse.
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 13:58:03 -0300
Subject: Re: people on list; was Re: San Diego; 

Dave Voorhis wrote:
> 
> At 06:24 PM 26/04/96 -0300, you wrote:
> 
> >I was just wondering what type of people we have on the list?  I mean
> >like
> >1. total computer nerd
> >2. total car nerd
> >3. little of both
> >4. lot of both
> 
> "4. lot of both"   Add to that "total motorcycle nerd."
> 
> Dave Voorhis; lotsa Toros, lotsa motorcycles, lotsa computers.
> dave@armchair.mb.ca
> http://www.armchair.mb.ca/~dave

2.  Total car nut.  

I use computers as a tool for the other things in life.  I don't have 
time just to play computer, but I will make time for the cars.

I still need a complete interior kit for my 1968 4-4-2 convertible in 
pearl.  Can anyone recommend a cost effective high quality source for 
seats, door panels, carpet, top well, & boot?

------------------------------

From: jrjet@whidbey.net (Dot & Tim McChesney)
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 19:08:31 -0300
Subject: Re: sparking plugs 

>>other than split fires...there are plugs called Rings of fire, i
>>think...well they have a circular electrode rather than the split, so you
>>get more spark...
>
>Oh, wait a minute, would those be "Fire Injectors(tm)"??? J.C. Whitney
>used to sell those things for years, right next to the miracle engine
>tuneup pills and the fuel line magnets. Just skimmed a recent catalog
>and couldn't find them in there, although I did find SplitFires listed.
>
>>From what I remember of the Highly Scientific drawing of the things in
>action, they were so Scientific that your car would now creep forward
>when in gear at idle, such was the power of these engineering breakthroughs
>(or "breakthrus", perhaps). Think they had one large round center electrode
>and several side ones around it, target-style. Never met anyone who'd ever
>tried the things, nor did I ever see one outside the catalog.


The small airplane engines use these style plugs for years and years. for
durability ? weird but true.

  Tim , 71 convert cutlass

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 11:51:58 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: people on list 

     I fall somewhere between 3 and 4.  I was always into cars, and have 
     always done all my automotive work myself, but for many years 
     computers were far more important.  Now I'm a network administrator 
     and get my daily dose of computers there.  I've found that after doing 
     this job for a few years, spending all day working on computers and 
     then going home to spend all night with your "other" hobby, playing on 
     computers, got kind of monotonous.
     
     You gotta do *something* besides computers to keep you sane.  For me 
     it's cars.  While at work, I'm the resident computer geek, while at 
     home, I'm a car nut and part-time computer geek.  Most of my car 
     related activities are tempered by the reality that I'm a first-time 
     home owner, with a significant other of 5 years+, and a kid, so I have 
     to budget my time and money for those things first.  In the "money 
     priority" scope of things, "stuff" for the car comes somewhere between 
     the house and family, and food and clothes for myself.
     
     My *other* hobbys are home brewing, and going to science fiction 
     conventions (they're really an incredible amount of fun if you stay 
     away from the commercial for-profit ones).  How's that for a diverse 
     interest?
     
     And that's about the entire depth of my life. . .  Any oldsmophiles 
     swinging this way are welcome to a free home-brew!
     
     Tom Lentz

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: people on list; was Re: San Diego; 
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    4/26/96 2:21 PM
     
I was just wondering what type of people we have on the list?  I mean 
like 
1. total computer nerd
2. total car nerd
3. little of both
4. lot of both

------------------------------

From: jrjet@whidbey.net (Dot & Tim McChesney)
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 19:08:27 -0300
Subject: Re: DMR number?? 

>Does anyone have a phone # for Dick Miller racing???  I want a W-30 hood
>for my Cutlass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>Clint
>
>Don't have dick miller racing's # but u.s. body source has a w-30 hood
>that is street weight or race weight. street is$389 race is $289
there # is 1-904-468-2203

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 19:16:50 -0300
Subject: Road Trip

Just back from a day-long business trip to Moncton, New Brunswick, about 
200 miles west of here. Couldn't take the Olds as I had my boss and our 
lawyer with me so I got a rental for their benefit (had to take an 
Intrepid; not a bad car for a non-Olds :)  ). 

About halfway there I'm driving along the highway, scanning the territory 
for old stuff, when I see a dilapidated mobile home with a '70 Nova 
parked out back. As I pass, what's that hiding behind the trailer? A 
run-down '68 Cutlass? Parts Car! Almost drove off the road, causing great 
distress to my passengers. As I'm in the process of apologizing, no more 
than a half-mile later, what's this? A good-looking (as far as I can tell 
at 60 mph) '66 Delta 88 2-door! Parked out front, plated, a driver! On 
the way back, it was there again, but turned around. Someone's driving 
this one. Looked real pretty from the road... that metallic blue-green 
that's getting popular again, with a vinyl roof. Neat aluminum panel 
between the taillights with the eggcrate overlay over the lenses. Hmmm...

I know where I might go this weekend...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 18:16:57 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: people on list 

>I was just wondering what type of people we have on the list?  I mean 
>like 
>1. total computer nerd
>2. total car nerd
>3. little of both
>4. lot of both

I'm a Type 4. My favorite car has a computer-oriented vanity plate on it.
My job is Support Specialist for database publishing systems, some of
which you have probably encountered at one time or another, but in my
spare time I write a car-oriented column for the company newsletter. I
mix the two worlds pretty thoroughly, in other words.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 19:24:37 -0300
Subject: Re: Upcoming Event

On Mon, 22 Apr 1996, Frederick Pirochta wrote:
> Please include the "1996 Oldsmobile Homecoming" car show hosted by the 
> R.E. Olds Chapter in the list of Upcoming Events.  The show will be held 
> at the Oldsmobile Administration Building in Lansing, MI on Saturday, 
> June 15, 1996 from 9 am til 4 pm.  Registration is $5.00 per car and 
> $20.00 per swap space on or before 6/3/96.  After 6/3/96 the cost 
> increases to $10.00 per car and $30.00 per swap space.

Anyone ever been to this? Is the swap meet any good, in particular? It 
looks like I'm going to be travelling on that day and my itinerary 
includes a stopover in Detroit. If the swap meet is a good one I might 
want to overnight there and go to it on Saturday. Off to Boise, Idaho for 
the week after that. Anyone here in that vicinity?

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: John Schmich <schmich@AZStarNet.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 20:13:04 -0300
Subject: Computer Control problems? 

     Hi all,

     I am in need of some desperate help if I ever want my Olds back on the
road in style.   
     Heres how it goes, About 3 weeks ago, we put the perfromance rebuilt 84
307.  Just to quickly refresh the memory on the components inside:   84
block bored .030 over, CompCams 268 hydraulic; IOW, everything related to
the engine is brand new.
     Other than a few begining problems, it started up fine.  Its now at the
point were it should have all the beginning bugs worked out.  Problem is
that it won't low idle, and isn't seem to run to well.  Just got the carb
rebuilt hoping to cure the problem.  No luck.  So I took it down to a
professional mechanic on Weds.  Today he tells me that I have to take the
cam out of my car because it is to big for the computer.  He tells me that
the cam is to loppy.  When working on it, he told me that the 13-14 inches
of vaccum from the computer to the cam (and vise versa) isn't enough.  He
had to put 20 inches of vaccum on it to even idle well.  He said that it
runs great after 2500 RPM and because the cam has to much of a power
curve(?) for the computer.
     While writing this my brother went to the local perfromance/block &
head shop and asked the same questions.  Our buddy their said that we might
have the cam one tooth off.  Therefore messing up the timing.
     We are going to look at it on Monday at the shop and find the problem
but I first want to get your guys info.  Has anyone ever had this problem,
computer controled or not?  Do I need a vaccum helper/upgrade(?) if
something like that is even made.  Would a special ground computer chip help
me out?  Any other suggestions welcome.   
     Now I know some well just laff like hell at me for trying this, and yes
I understand because I took a big risk.   But please help because I'm tired
of driving a Ch*vy!!!!  Thank you.

Brandon
One sick 86 Salon 

------------------------------

From: "fursmand" <fursmand@smtpgate.avi.af.mil>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 19:34:09 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: people on list; was Re: San Diego;  

I'm more a 2 than a 1 because I know how to work on my Olds.  When it comes 
to my computer it took me 2 1/2 weeks to get my new 6X cd-rom and my 
Phoneblaster to work together and not fight.  Did I mention Windows 95 
didn't help one bit.
Don sends

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: people on list; was Re: San Diego; 
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at SMTPGATE
Date:    4/26/96 23:14


Dave Voorhis wrote:
> 
> At 06:24 PM 26/04/96 -0300, you wrote: 
> 
> >I was just wondering what type of people we have on the list?  I mean 
> >like
> >1. total computer nerd
> >2. total car nerd
> >3. little of both
> >4. lot of both
> 
> "4. lot of both"   Add to that "total motorcycle nerd." 
> 
> Dave Voorhis; lotsa Toros, lotsa motorcycles, lotsa computers. 
> dave@armchair.mb.ca
> http://www.armchair.mb.ca/~dave

2.  Total car nut.  

I use computers as a tool for the other things in life.  I don't have 
time just to play computer, but I will make time for the cars.

I still need a complete interior kit for my 1968 4-4-2 convertible in 
pearl.  Can anyone recommend a cost effective high quality source for 
seats, door panels, carpet, top well, & boot?

------------------------------

From: conrad <rad19@icon.net>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 20:39:24 -0300
Subject: Re: JUST STARTED

fursmand wrote:
> 
>         Well, my name is Don and I am a new subscriber as of four days ago
> and you are all making me Oldsmobilesick (not homesick).  I am in the Air
> Force stationed at Aviano Air Base in Italy and have been here for the last
> four years. 
> Welcome aboard Don!  (Navy talk...I had 6 years in Naples!!)

 The Italian police caught a German going 164 MPH returning
 to Germany.
 
I kinda miss driving over there.  It was really culture shock to adapt to speed 
limits again.

Hey, can you send me some "KIMBO?"  

Conrad (66TORO owner)

------------------------------

From: idaholc@primenet.com (Bill Goodnight)
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 21:08:11 -0300
Subject: Re: please post FAQ here 

At 03:25 PM 4/26/96 -0300, oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca wrote:
>
>If you are new to the list or are otherwise "FAQless" (tm) (:)) please send a 
>request to me.  I'll send the pkzipped version unless told otherwise.
>
>
Thanks,
   
Bill Goodnight
idaholc@primenet.com
>
>

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 21:21:27 -0300
Subject: List Down Tonight

CCN advises they will be down from approx. 11PM EST Friday until approx. 
7AM EST Saturday. Olds list processing will not be available at that 
time. Info for all you night owls out there.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: "Dink" <heinle@jake.udayton.edu>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 22:46:58 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: JUST STARTED

> Hey Mike,
>         Just wanted to say thanks for writing back about getting out.  I 
> have a friend that wants to open a speed shop or a bar and I told him we 
> should open both.  Do you have any ideas about VA loans?

Have you ever been to Quaker Steak and Lube in Sharon Pa?  It's a 
Bar that has  cars all over the place, most hanging 
upside down from the cieling.  They also own Tallies and The Hot Rod 
Lube's cafe next door.   Tallies is cool and is filled with Harley's, and The 
Lube, has um lets see 59 El Camino, orignal 63 vettte with like 5k on 
it, and Stallone's Bullet proof Suburban.  Also they have the 
Nation's best wings, and man are they good.

That makes me wonder my not start a Bar that showcases only 
Oldsmobiles?  Maybe at first just one, then add as you go. Hmm, maybe 
you could get loaners from some of us in the winter, would save some 
storage costs :)


Dink

!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~
Dink           Dayton, Ohio
80 Olds Delta 88 Royale  MSD, K&N, Dynomax, etc..
http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
- --

------------------------------

From: ggreen@ftn.net (Gary Green)
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 21:55:00 -0300
Subject: Re: What kind of people 

I'm definitely the car nut type. Have been since I was a kid, and that was a
loooooonnnngggg time ago.  I grew up in the generation that had to be able
to identify every car on the road, and you were always trying to shout out
the model and year before your buddy.  

We had some neat auto related games that you don't see anymore - Thank
heaven.  Some nights we'd play PULL THE ROPE!!  This game was played at
night. It involved splitting into two groups, one on each side of the road.
When an approching automobile got close, we would jump up and pull on the
imaginary rope stretched across the road.  The idea was to see how many
emergency stops we could initiate in an evening, without getting caught.  

In the winter, we spent a lot of time hitching rides on bumpers.  This
involved hanging around stop signs, when the car started to speed up, we
would grab onto the rear bumper and slid along behind the car for a block or
two (the winter roads were always snow covered in those pre-salt days), or
until we hit a bare spot, yikes.

I've had a few collector cars, and have partially restored some of them.
Drove a 52 Bu**k during the summers for 20 years (1970-90).  My son has it
now.  Had a mint 60 Corvair I bought from an estate and ended up selling it
to the local Science and Tech Museum.  Bought a 1929 Plym**th Sport Sedan in
77, and I'm still working on it.  In fact, that brings me to the other
thread, "what are you doing this weekend".  I'm in the process of
fabricating a rear wheel well out of a spare rear fender......  There is a
4-cyl Plym**th meet about 200 miles from here on the 24 May weekend, and I
have made bookings, so have to get Ol Beulah up and ready.  It's always lots
of fun putting it on the road, as it is not what you would call fully
restored, sort of resembles something that just drove out of the Walton's
Barn.  

I took the 85 Toronado (wimpmobile +) out of winter mothballs two weeks ago.
Haven't done the tune-up yet, but it is on the list.

Getting off the thread, this is supposed to be about who we are:  I retired
last year from a Government job.  25 years Air Force, 12 years public
service, as an Electronics Technologist.  I take computer courses at night
school, work on old cars in the warm weather, surf the Internet in cold
weather, and buy, sell, and collect auto brochures and manuals for a hobby.

Definitely car nut with some leaning toward computer nerd.

Regards from Ottawa
Gary Green

92 Delta 88
85 Toronado
29 Plymouth

  

------------------------------

From: Bob Valentine <ravalent@liii.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 21:51:30 -0300
Subject: Intro and Question

Hello -

   I just suscribed here, so I figure a intro is in order.   My 
<neverending> project is a '71 Cutlass convertible - did the body-off 
resto thing last winter, fixing all the chassis rust.  (I'm in New York) 
Now I'm up to body work and building a new motor - '70 350 block, ported 
#7 heads and a mild cam.  I'm planning on backing it up with a TH700-4R 
using a ArtCarr adapter plate - I'm using this tranny since I got it in 
newly rebuilt condition of the sum of $00.00.   ;^)

    I'm still working on a rear end for the car.  The original 2.56 open 
10 bolt Olds rear finally wore out.  I got a good deal on a '70 2.78 posi 
12-bolt Olds rear.  It's ok, but needs axle bearings.  Here's the 
question - will 10-bolt Olds axles interchange with 12-bolt Olds axles?  
Both of these rears are the NON-c-clip rears.

    I'm still looking to go to a higher number gearset, somewhere in the 
range of 3.30 to 3.50 - this car is a daily driver.   Here's what I've 
got laying around to work with:

    1. '70 12-bolt Olds 2.78 posi - in car now.
    2. '71 10-bolt 8.2" Chevy (c-clip) 3.36 open rear - needs total rebuild
    3.  ?year 12-bolt Chevy 3-series carrier

   Comments on what to mix and match to work for me?  I've been trying to 
find a posi 3-series gut for the 10-bolt Chevy - no luck.

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                    --> ravalent@liii.com  <--
        "Experience varies directly with equipment ruined"

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 22:25:16 -0300
Subject: 1964 and 1975 Info

I invite everyone to check my most recent additions to my Olds home page 
on the web.  I've put model designations, engine info, assembly plant 
info, and VIN deciphering on various pages.  Anyone working with a '64 or 
'75 Olds might find it useful.  Also, I can look up anything that might 
be in the factory service manuals for Oldsmobiles of these years.

Thanks!


Dan Gulino
http://ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu/~gulino/rides.html

------------------------------

From: "Dink" <heinle@jake.udayton.edu>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 23:57:12 -0300
Subject: Re: What kind of people

> I grew up in the generation that had to be able
> to identify every car on the road, and you were always trying to shout out
> the model and year before your buddy.  
Was everybody like this?  On the way to HS on the bus people would 
always ask me whats that, and point to some car.  They would always  
try and get me, but they never did. For some reason I 
was the only one I knew that could do that.  I guess kids are 
different now.
 
> We had some neat auto related games that you don't see anymore - Thank
> heaven.  Some nights we'd play PULL THE ROPE!!  This game was played at

This sounds cool. Did you ever do the American Graffiti trick?  You 
know wrap a chain around police cruiser axle and then his buddy flies by, 
presto no more axle!  I know some people that did this loooong time 
ago.  Must have been a hell of a site to see :)


Dink

!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~
Dink           Dayton, Ohio
80 Olds Delta 88 Royale  MSD, K&N, Dynomax, etc..
http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
- --

------------------------------

From: "Mail Delivery Subsystem" <MAILER-DAEMON@mke9.ra.rockwell.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 02:04:23 -0300
Subject: Returned Mail

    -------------- Illegal condition follows --------------
Microsoft Mail rejected recipient:
barker_a#d#.mke_a-f_msmail@mke9.ra.rockwell.com
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Received: by mke9.ra.rockwell.com with SMTP;26 Apr 1996 21:03:50 U
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Received: from WORLD.REMNET.AB.COM by ABSSW.REMNET.AB.COM
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        26 Apr 1996 20:36:20 CDT
Message-Id: <WORLD.OLDSMOBI.234536200096117FWORLD@REMNET.AB.COM>
Date: 26 Apr 1996 20:36:20 CDT
From: "OLDSMOBILE" <oldsmobile@CCN.CS.DAL.CA>
Subject: 1964 and 1975 Info
To: oldsmobile@CCN.CS.DAL.CA
Comment: MEMO 04.26.96 20.36

I invite everyone to check my most recent additions to my Olds home page 
on the web.  I've put model designations, engine info, assembly plant 
info, and VIN deciphering on various pages.  Anyone working with a '64 or 
'75 Olds might find it useful.  Also, I can look up anything that might 
be in the factory service manuals for Oldsmobiles of these years.

Thanks!


Dan Gulino
http://ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu/~gulino/rides.html

------------------------------

From: "Mail Delivery Subsystem" <MAILER-DAEMON@mke9.ra.rockwell.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 02:11:32 -0300
Subject: Returned Mail

    -------------- Illegal condition follows --------------
Microsoft Mail rejected recipient:
barker_a#d#.mke_a-f_msmail@mke9.ra.rockwell.com
    -------------- Unsent message follows --------------
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Message-Id: <WORLD.OLDSMOBI.365507210096117FWORLD@REMNET.AB.COM>
Date: 26 Apr 1996 21:07:21 CDT
From: "Dink" <oldsmobile@CCN.CS.DAL.CA>
Subject: Re: What kind of people
To: oldsmobile@CCN.CS.DAL.CA
Comment: MEMO 04.26.96 21.07

> I grew up in the generation that had to be able
> to identify every car on the road, and you were always trying to shout out
> the model and year before your buddy.  
Was everybody like this?  On the way to HS on the bus people would 
always ask me whats that, and point to some car.  They would always  
try and get me, but they never did. For some reason I 
was the only one I knew that could do that.  I guess kids are 
different now.
 
> We had some neat auto related games that you don't see anymore - Thank
> heaven.  Some nights we'd play PULL THE ROPE!!  This game was played at

This sounds cool. Did you ever do the American Graffiti trick?  You 
know wrap a chain around police cruiser axle and then his buddy flies by, 
presto no more axle!  I know some people that did this loooong time 
ago.  Must have been a hell of a site to see :)


Dink

!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~
Dink           Dayton, Ohio
80 Olds Delta 88 Royale  MSD, K&N, Dynomax, etc..
http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
- --

------------------------------

From: Roger Saladin <rsaladin@bright.net>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 23:30:06 -0300
Subject: Re: Coolant leak solved!  (He heeehehe) 

At 05:36 PM 4/22/96 -0300, you wrote:

>Yeah, I'm developing a new water injection system for my Olds...
>--
>Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
>dpauliso@metrolink.net
>
You may be too late. Seems I remember in the early 60's, (was it the
Starfire?) there was a system available that used a water/alcohol combo
to boost the power.

------------------------------

From: "Mail Delivery Subsystem" <MAILER-DAEMON@mke9.ra.rockwell.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 02:42:23 -0300
Subject: Returned Mail

    -------------- Illegal condition follows --------------
Microsoft Mail rejected recipient:
barker_a#d#.mke_a-f_msmail@mke9.ra.rockwell.com
    -------------- Unsent message follows --------------
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        26 Apr 1996 21:39:21 CDT
Message-Id: <WORLD.OLDSMOBI.885439210096117FWORLD@REMNET.AB.COM>
Date: 26 Apr 1996 21:39:21 CDT
From: "OLDSMOBILE" <oldsmobile@CCN.CS.DAL.CA>
Subject: Re: Coolant leak solved!  (He heeehehe)
To: oldsmobile@CCN.CS.DAL.CA
Comment: MEMO 04.26.96 21.39

At 05:36 PM 4/22/96 -0300, you wrote:

>Yeah, I'm developing a new water injection system for my Olds...
>--
>Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
>dpauliso@metrolink.net
>
You may be too late. Seems I remember in the early 60's, (was it the
Starfire?) there was a system available that used a water/alcohol combo
to boost the power.

------------------------------

From: Jeff Stanish <stanishj@svpal.org>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 23:48:42 -0300
Subject: Re: Body to frame first?

Well I guess I have company in the '69 H/O body off restoration fun.

Boy I oscillated on what to do as well. I'm doing mine outta my garage so 
its a sloooooooowwwwwwww process. I removed all the body parts except for 
the doors(left in for rigidity strength), the drivetrain, etc and had 6 
friends(7 total) pull the body
off and put it on 55 GAL barrels. Then hand stripped the underneath NEVER 
AGAIN!!! I then stripped and restored the 
frame, rebuilt the suspension and brakes. The rebuilt the drive train and 
installed it. Then with one other 
friend, a bunch of cinder blocks, two floor jacks put the body back down. 
NEXT STEP get everything workin'engine, brakes,etc.  MY logic If I have a 
problem now, engine???etc I can easily recover i.e. pull it out again if there is a 
problem, no new paint to scratch.  When I comes time to paint the body, I 
will tape sheet plastic from the body to the floor of the garage, etc to 
keep 
dust, overspray, etc out.  Probably paint the fenders, doors,hood, etc 
separately.  Understand this completely a homebrew effort.  A body 
rotissary would be the ultimate! 

There was a guy who did a '68 H/O frame off in JWO a while back. He  put 
plastic between the body and the frame when he lowered it. When he was done 
he pulled the plastic out! Voila NO overspray on his pristine chassis.

Since I am doing most of the work myself  I want to check things out 
before I get too far to bet the farm that everythings OK.  Before the 
show paint job goes on!

Later Jeff Stanish 

On Fri, 26 Apr 1996, Mike Shokouhi wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I'm in the slow process of doing my first "complete body off resto" 
> on a '69 H/O, and I'm at the point where I need to figure out when to 
> bring the frame and body back together.
> 
> I assumed that the body/panels should be painted first and 'baked', 
> and then put on the frame, but my body guy is saying that he'll do 
> everything to the body except the paint.  He then wants me to mate 
> the body/frame first, put the engine, tranny, etc. in and then give 
> it back to him for the final painting.  
> 
> I don't think I'll be able to do any baking after all this.
> 
> I know there are many pros and cons for both methods, does anyone 
> have any experience on this to share?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 10:36:07 -0300
Subject: Olds Cam Specs 1964-77

Here's the chart produced by Karl Sarpolis that was originally printed in 
the Feb./95 issue of JWO. All credit is his.

Olds Camshaft Specifications 1964-1977
======================================

Year Part #    Ovlp Duration  Lift      Application
                    Int./Exh. Int./Exh.

1964 387484    52   278/282   .430/.432 330 Police Pursuit
     577994    36   250/264   .380/.390 330 2BC, D88 2BC

1965 387484    52   278/282   .430/.432 400, 330 4BC ST,425 ex Starfire
     388992    47   278/282   .430/.432 J88 4BC, 330 4BC AT
     558528    36   250/264   .387/.388 330 2BC
     388828    50   286/280   .427/.461 425 Starfire

1966 588528    36   250/264   .387/.388 330 2BC
     388992    47   278/282   .430/.432 330 4BC AT
     387484    52   278/282   .430/.432 425 ex Starfire
     388828    50   286/280   .427/.461 425 Starfire
     393964    52   278/282   .430/.432 400 AT ex. OAI
     393859    58   286/286   .472/.472 400 ST ex. OAI
     390961    55   281/282   .472/.472 Toro
     397328    82   308/308   .474/.474 400 OAI (W-30)

1967 396188    36   250/264   .387/.388 330 2BC lo-comp
     396192    47   278/282   .430/.432 330 4BC AT,400 4BC AT x OAI
     397744    36   250/264   .435/.435 400 2BC
     393964    52   278/282   .430/.432 330 4BC ST, 425 ex. S/F, Toro
     396190    50   286/280   .472/.461 425 Starfire, Pol.
     396961    55   281/282   .472/.472 Toro
     393859    58   286/286   .472/.472 400 ST ex. OAI
     397328    82   308/308   .474/.474 400 OAI (W-30)
     230328    82   308/308   .474/.474 400 OAI w/ 16 valve springs

1968 393859    58   286/286   .472/.472 400 ST ex. OAI
     402486    48   262/274   .440/.440 400 AT ex OAI, 350 w/ 269 Pol.
     400117    44   258/272   .435/.435 455 Irrig, Mar, hi-comp ex Pol.,
                                        Toro, hi-perf.
     400084    36   250/264   .400/.400 350 ex. OAI
     402194    82   308/308   .474/.474 350 W-31, Hurst ex CAC
     400165    57   285/287   .472/.472 455 Pol, Toro W-34, Hurst CAC
     402569    108  328/328   .475/.475 400 OAI after 1-1-68

1969 393859    58   286/286   .472/.472 400 AT, W-32 OAI
     400165    57   285/287   .472/.472 455 Pol, Toro W-34, F85 Hurst,
                                        455 Mar 4BC hi-perf
     402486    48   262/274   .440/.440 3269 AT, 350 Pol.
     402194    82   308/308   .474/.474 350 W-31 OAI
     400117    44   258/272   .435/.435 455 ex. Pol., Toro, hi-perf.
     402569    108  328/328   .475/.475 400 OAI ex. W-32
     400084    36   250/264   .400/.400 350 ex. OAI

1970 393859    58   286/286   .472/.472 350 4BC ex. AT, OAI, hi-perf
     400084    36   250/264   .400/.400 350 2BC, 4BC AT
     400117    44   258/272   .435/.435 455 ex. Pol., Toro
     400165    57   285/287   .472/.472 4257, 67, 4400 AT, Toro W-34
     402486    48   262/274   .440/.440 455 Toro ex. W-34
     402569    108  328/328   .475/.475 455 4400 ST OAI (W-30)
     406768    68   294/296   .472/.472 455 4400 ST ex. OAI
     402194    82   308/308   .474/.474 350 W-31 OAI

1971 400084    36   250/264   .400/.400 350 2BC, 4BC AT
     400117    44   258/272   .435/.435 455 Toro w/2.73 axle, 455 ex
                                        4400 or Perf. Eng.
     400165    57   285/287   .472/.472 455 4400 OAI w/AC, 4400 AT
     402486    48   262/274   .440/.440 350 4BC ST,455 Toro w/3.07
     409691    61   286/287   .474/.472 455 4400 ST, AT OAI ex AC
     409717    32   250/264   .400/.400 350 5400
     409759    68   294/296   .472/.472 455 4400 ST OAI (W-30)

1972 400084    36   250/264   .400/.400 350 L34, 350 AT L32, 33 All
     400117    44   258/272   .435/.435 455 All 4BC AT, Marine LC
     402486    48   262/274   .440/.440 350 F85 4BC ST (L34), Marine
     409691    61   286/287   .474/.472 455 L75 ST,L77 AT, Marine HC
     409759    68   294/296   .472/.472 455 F85, 455 ST OAI (W-30)

1973 400084    36   250/264   .400/.400 350 L32, L33, L34
     400117    44   258/272   .435/.435 455 AT, Marine, 455 LC
     402486    48   262/274   .440/.440 350 ST M15, M20
     409691    61   286/287   .474/.472 455 4BC, L77, Marine

1974 409691    61   286/287   .474/.472 455 AG37, 455 W-30, Marine
                                        455 (also #562302)
     400117    44   258/272   .435/.435 455 ex W-30, Marine, 455 LC
                                        (Also #562303)
     400084    36   250/264   .400/.400 350 (Also #562299)

1975 550638    28   242/250   .396/.400 260
     400084    36   250/264   .400/.400 350 (Also #562299)
     400117    44   258/272   .435/.435 455 (Also #562303)
     409691    61   286/287   .474/.472 455 Marine (Reg.)
     402486    48   262/274   .440/.440 350 Marine
     409759    68   294/296   .472/.472 455 Marine Hi-perf.

1976 550638    28   242/250   .396/.400 260
     400084    36   250/264   .400/.400 350
     402194    82   308/308   .474/.474 455 Marine Hi-perf. F.P.
     409759    68   294/296   .472/.472 455 Marine Hi-perf.
     409691    61   286/287   .474/.472 350 & 455 Reg. Perf. Marine
     400117    44   258/272   .435/.435 455 All, Irr., ex Marine

1977 562298    52   256/277   .247/.250 260 (thru 1982)
     562299    36   250/264   .400/.400 350, 403 (thru 1980)
     562301    68   294/296   .474/.472 403 Hi-perf. Marine thru  79
     562302    61   286/287   .472/.472 350, 403 Reg. Perf Marine, ST
                                        thru 79

Note:  Overlap in degrees 
Note:  Olds rates duration at zero lift, most cam mfrs. rate duration at 
.050 lift

ST=standard trans   AT=automatic trans  2BC/4BC: 2 or 4 barrel carb
OAI=outside air induction


Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 05:52:38 -0300
Subject: Re: Flowmasters...

>First of all, Flowmaster makes two different style mufflers, 2 and 3
>chambers.  Since they use chambers to convert sound energy to heat energy, 2
>chambers are alot louder than 3 chambers.


Sorry to say, somebody sold you a bad bill of goods in the 
aforementioned... In sentence #2, both statements are untrue...


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Michael R. Hall                            Ortonville, Michigan
E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com
Owner: 1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
Owner: 1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...
Owner: 1994 GMC Sonoma Club Coupe SLS Pickup, soon to be "Bravadaized".
         Brought to you by a Apple Power Macintosh 7100/80
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

------------------------------

From: Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 05:49:43 -0300
Subject: Re: Coolant, stalling

>OK, coolant problem all better now...replaced the radiator cap, and things
>seem to have settled down.  On to another problem, just developed today.  I
>was driving to work this morning, doing about 70 on I-95, and the engine
>just quit running.  I put it in neutral, and the engine coughed and
>sputtered for a few seconds, then died.  I tried to start it, and it fired
>right back up.  I drove for another half mile or so, and it did it again.


Dave,

Sounds like vapor lock to me... Look at your lines, see if you have any 
close to anything hot.


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Michael R. Hall                            Ortonville, Michigan
E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com
Owner: 1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
Owner: 1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...
Owner: 1994 GMC Sonoma Club Coupe SLS Pickup, soon to be "Bravadaized".
         Brought to you by a Apple Power Macintosh 7100/80
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

------------------------------

From: Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 05:50:43 -0300
Subject: Re: '66 toro

>On the mere surface of the ad, it sounds like a good deal. But,
>beware,,,,,that 73K could (EASILY) be 173K  (higher or lower) as even my
>grandmother of 91 years can figure out how do dissconnect the cable.


I can't verify granny but 173,000 divided by a 30 year old car still 
equals a paltry 5767 miles a year and thats good by my standard... Sounds 
like a good deal to me and you know that the Toro wants and needs a good 
master...


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Michael R. Hall                            Ortonville, Michigan
E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com
Owner: 1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
Owner: 1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...
Owner: 1994 GMC Sonoma Club Coupe SLS Pickup, soon to be "Bravadaized".
         Brought to you by a Apple Power Macintosh 7100/80
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

------------------------------

From: Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 05:51:40 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds History Center

>hey there...  we need some standard in declaring "what is old" and "what 
>is new" and the terms used to define this.


Question: WHY does there need to be a standard?

Statement: I vote no...


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Michael R. Hall                            Ortonville, Michigan
E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com
Owner: 1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
Owner: 1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...
Owner: 1994 GMC Sonoma Club Coupe SLS Pickup, soon to be "Bravadaized".
         Brought to you by a Apple Power Macintosh 7100/80
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 11:39:41 -0300
Subject: Re: Coolant, stalling

At 05:49 AM 4/27/96 -0300, you wrote:

>
>Dave,
>
>Sounds like vapor lock to me... Look at your lines, see if you have any 
>close to anything hot.
>
>
That did cross my mind...never happened before, though.  I suppose there's a
first time for everything.  I looked at the lines in the engine compartment;
the only one near the engine is the steel one going from the pump to the
carb.  The supply line for the pump comes through the frame as a steel line,
than it's rubber to the pump, but it is not near anything hot (ex. manifold,
etc).  

I've just about checked everything I can think of, and it still happens.
Last few things: check ignition wiring for a short, recheck fuel lines, and
last of all, drop the tank (don't really want to get into that; hope
something else solves the problem).  Of course, it could still be a little
water in the tank yet from that $5 of gas the other night.

Thanks!
- --
Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #159
********************************

