
oldsmobile-digest           Monday, 20 May 1996        Volume 01 : Number 179


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From: idaholc@primenet.com (Bill Goodnight)
Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 23:33:15 -0300
Subject: Re: Automobile Humour 

At 10:11 PM 5/8/96 -0300, oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca wrote:
>In a message dated 96-05-07 21:19:53 EDT, you write:
>
>>FORD
>
>Found On Russian Dump
>
>>G.M.C.
>
>Great Mountain Climber
>
>As Redd Foxx once said, " Listen closely and you will find the names of a
few automobiles mentioned.......Henry Ford asked Helen Dodge - Can I Packard
my Pierce Arrow in your Nash?  She said for Chrysler sakes no, this is
Willy's Knight, you'll have to Whippet.   Ain't that a Buick?"

Bill Goodnight
Idaholc@primenet.com

------------------------------

From: Anectine@aol.com
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 02:14:39 -0300
Subject: Re: am-fm stereo radio installation 

thanks for the help. I have attemped to plsce it there but i 
must be doing something wrong because my glove box wont 
shut . but thanks anyhow 
                          Chuck

------------------------------

From: Anectine@aol.com
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 02:25:11 -0300
Subject: Re: am-fm stereo radio installation 

dear Paul
  thanks for your reply. Your system is the same as mine
 i have removed the glovebox and found the bracket but 
for some reason i cannot get it to fit. either the glove box 
door wont shut or i cannot reinstall the glovebox it self.
the bracket in mine doesnt have any predrilled holes. I do 
appreciate your response and will continue to try make it fit.
my shop manual doesnt give any diagram but does give a micro
description of installation and removal. It seems as if the cutlasses
just did not have enough room. Again thanks.
                               
Chuck

------------------------------

From: gludlam@bcinet.net (Gregg Ludlam)
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 09:51:42 -0300
Subject: 4-Door Toros 

>Had a 4-dr 76 Regal for a while; I swear it was *invisible* to the cops... We
>better knock it off before the Toro brigade get all bummed out- they can't have
>a 4-door unless they make it themselves! Wait, weren't the manual trans Toros
>4-doors... -Chris-

Yeah, especially the ones with the 7027131 carbs - the 4-door convertible
station wagon Toros with the 3-on-the-tree.  Wow, what a babe-mobile...

BTW, anyone want to buy my super-rare carb for $2K?  Chris?   :)  :)  :)


- -Gregg, the '67 Toro guy

------------------------------

From: gludlam@bcinet.net (Gregg Ludlam)
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 09:55:18 -0300
Subject: Re: stuffs 

>In a message dated 96-05-15 16:02:27 EDT, you write:
>
>>Heh, I was a car once in a boneyard in AZ
>
>That must have been interesting for you.

Whew, what a rotten feeling he must've had...


- -Gregg, the '67 Toro guy

------------------------------

From: gludlam@bcinet.net (Gregg Ludlam)
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 09:58:50 -0300
Subject: Re: stuffs 

>I have never seen an Oldsmobile flower car (but that doesn't mean one was
>never made). The closest I have seen to such a vehicle were the Olds 98
>ambulances made in the 60's. 
>
>Greg K. 

For those of you with Casteele's "The Cars of Oldsmobile", you can see
several pictures of Olds Parlor-mobiles made by Cotner-Bevington of
Blytheville, Arkansas.


- -Gregg, the '67 Toro guy

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 07:05:16 -0300
Subject: Re: am-fm stereo radio installation

. It seems as if the cutlasses
> just did not have enough room. Again thanks.
> 
> Chuck

Buick Skylarks don't have stereo radios because there is not enough room 
for the multi-plex portion and therefore have only plain AM/FM.  I 
believe that Cutlasses have the same problem.  My 1968 has only an AM/FM 
search type.

Bill Culp

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 12:08:17 -0300
Subject: Olds answers

I found this guy Dave on the net, answers car questions... I asked him about a
ficticious Olds engine, an F block I think, and how to tell a Toro from a
lesser engine... Here's what he found out. -Chris-


Forwarded message:
> From question@reallink.com Fri May 17 19:14:07 1996
> Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 18:14:36 -0500
> From: dave erb <question@reallink.com>
> Subject: 455 olds engine
>
> Chris.
> After consulting several machine shops I use and an old olds manuel. what
> you have is a 69 olds 455 probably out of a toronado.At least the heads are
> for sure.There is a chance the te block is a 425. I assume you will be
> pulling it apart to check the condition of the engine or rebuild it,just
> measure the bore.If it has a 4 inch bore it is a 425 if it has a 4.25 inch
> bore it is a 455. Also if you will look on the left front of the block there
> should be a stamp that will read 3 9 or something like that. The 3 indecates
> olds devision and the 9 will indacate 1969.I hope this helps and have fun.
> Your internet mechanic

Not too bad, though how he can tell that a head is 'for sure Toronado' is
beyond me...  And the fact that none of his resources seem to be able to
discern stroke from bore, or get the actual numbers right... S'far as I know,
the 425 & 455 share the same 4.125" bore; only the stroke varies... At least he
got the VIN derivative location and some of its decoding right. Though, the
number on the oil fill tube would be far easier to read, usually... I guess
nobody can tell how to ID a Toronado engine [except by them "Toro-only" heads!
:) ]

- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 13:21:10 -0300
Subject: stuffs

> Just to be clear, though, it was my understanding that the earlier (5A)
> engines had the roller cam, whereas the later ones did not, but people have
> been saying the other way around.  Does anyone know for sure?  My '85 442
> has 5A heads, and the '85 shop manual says roller hydraulic system....BUT,
> at least one 7A engine has been found on a stock '85, so does the manual
> refer to the 5As or 7As?

I believe the opposite, but based on Chilton's info, it looks like there might
be a year or three of overlap where say the roller cam engine the high output
307 was available in years that 5A heads were used. Either-or kinda thing.

> Also, what the heck are these 6As?  What cars did they come on?
> Shawn M. Twomey     |  "No!  Try NOT!  Do, or do not.  There is no try."

6A heads, "5844" casting # by the #3 spark plug hole. From an '85 307 Roller
cam code Y {!?} engine. VIN deriv. stamped on block:
  3FY30678...
F= 1985 [started with A in 1980?, no "I"
Y= the 307-4V. 9= the "H.O." 307, presumably the roller cam unit, yet,
Chilton's lists both as exactly the same HP and torque figures. Where's the
HIGH output part?

Block: "4790 GM 5.0L G" on the shelf behind the water pump.
Cam measured a miserly 0.250" lift, or 0.400" valve lift...

Crank #556607. Spring on cam bolt to hod it rearward in the block. Plate also
serves to hold the cam in the block. Attached by the two gallery plugs. Full-
float wrist pins?? held in by circlips. Horseshoe shaped piston dish. Dipstick
#22527033, 18" from index to Full mark.

Chilton's, in all their typographical error confusion, lists both the 9 and Y
engines at 148HP @ 3800 rpm, and 250 torks @ 2400 rpm, yet, one has a cam lift
of 0.250-0.252" and the '83-84 "Y" motor has a "cam lift" of 0.400" [sounds
suspiciously like "valve lift" from that same cam, to me...] Ah, here in 1985,
we list the Y with 0.247-0.251 cam lift, and thge 9 engine with 0.275" cam
lift, almost believeable.
   Both are 8.0:1 compression.
- -Chris-

> Totalled twice.... the car's been rolled (then bondo'd up, then rolled
AGAIN!) so it's kinda rough.

That sounds like quite an understatement. -Chris-

- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 12:55:49 -0300
Subject: 442 photos again

ireland photos guy...

PS I told this guy already that "442" contains NO HYPHENS...
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 12:54:17 -0300
Subject: primo photos wanted

Here you go, you owners of primo and correct cars... be famous! I told this guy
I'd tell y'all, but my car is rather incorrect, has black inner fenders, no air
scoops, and the photo shows an incorrect LH mirror. Not a good example of a
correct 68 W30... yet. It even has a Camaro *gack* steering wheel.

> From tbergin@indigo.ie Sat May 18 14:28:06 1996
> From: tbergin@indigo.ie
> Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 19:25:47 GMT
> To: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu
> Subject: 4-4-2
>
>
> Dear Mr. Witt,
>
> Our company, Multimedia Publications Ltd., an Irish based producer of
> multimedia titles for the home PC market is presently involved in producing
> an encyclopaedia of classic automobiles, to be sold in Europe and the USA.
> The encyclopaedia will be released on CD-ROM for use with home personal
> computers and Philips CDi machines and will combine written descriptions of
> cars with animation, pictures and video.  It will feature over 100
> manufacturers and 1000 models, including the Oldsmobile 4-4-2.
>
> We are currently looking for photographs of all types of classic cars for
> inclusion in our encyclopaedia and are presently contacting owners of such
> cars who might be interested in having them featured.  I saw your 4-4-2s on
> the Oldsmobile page and thought that our project might interest you, I hope
> that this is the case and apologize if you are bothered by this message.
> If you are interested in having your car featured, you can send photographs
> of it to the address below. Thank you for taking the time to consider this
> message and if you have any questions about the project, I will be more than
> happy to anwser them.
>
> Kind regards,
>
>
> Tom Bergin
>
> Multimedia Publishing Ltd.
> P.O. Box 5123
> Dublin 4.
> Ireland
>
> Tel. 353 1 660 4158
> Fax. 353 1 668 2221
>      353 5 035 1217

- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 13:43:47 -0300
Subject: acquisitions

Picked up a '62 Cutlass convertible for parts... any interest?

The 455 turns out to be 'too good to dismantle' yet... Has a rare big-car
dusl-xst LH manifold, casting code "S"... complete to the air cleaner,
laternator, A/C pump & brackets... it's a '69 with the 7029251 carb. Still
turns well. I drained the oil and oiled the cylinders, put it in storage
intact. Looks like a mildly oil burning hih mileage 455 from a 69 Big Car with
factory dual exhaust. 2-prong temp sensor, too. Cool.

Picked up a running 403 Saturday, and my 'new' truck- a Ford, far better ride
than the Dodge. Buyer for the 403 suddenly has no cash... any other takers? Oh,
btw, it's a '77 403, and it is out of... a Pontiac. Have yet to remove oil pan,
inspect for you know what...

- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 15:19:37 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: "n-bolt" rear ends... 

In a message dated 96-05-17 14:50:41 EDT, you write:

>Is there a way to tell, without opening the rear end, what size carrier is
>in there? (a number or something on the rear?) 

There is a two letter code stamped to the passenger side on the axle tube.
 See your Olds service manual for exact location and what the code means
versus specific ring and pinion gear ratio.

Bob Handren
'67 W-30 Modified
'70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 20:54:10 -0300
Subject: Re: primo photos wanted

Chris Brown Witt forwarded:
>  
> > From: tbergin@indigo.ie
> >
> > It will feature over 100 manufacturers and 1000 models, 
> > including the Oldsmobile 4-4-2.

TORO?????  No Toro, no buy.  Whatya say, Toro-heads?

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: "Daniel B. Houlton" <tc75918@hpr169.mdhc.mdc.com>
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 19:22:55 -0300
Subject: What does 'corporate' mean?

> would have the Type O rear end.  In '71 they went to a GM corporate 10 bolt.

I keep seeing references to this GM corporate thing.  What is it?  Does it
just have to do with rear ends?

- --Dan

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 18:55:03 -0300
Subject: Re: acquisitions

At 01:43 PM 5/19/96 -0300, you wrote:
... it's a '69 with the 7029251 carb.
>Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist


Wanna sell that carb?
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

 "I was put on this earth to accomplish a certain number of things;
    right now I'm so far behind, I'll never die"  --Calvin

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 14:52:18 -0300
Subject: Fast Olds

I copied the following form the 23 May issue of "Old cars Weekly":

Drag Racing Champion Olds

The ultra rare, 1970 Oldsmobile F85 W31 Sports Coupe that set a 1974 
World Drag Racing Record of 90.86 mph in 8.47 seconds is also now in the 
Volo Antique Auto Museum.  The International Hot Rod Assoc. certified it 
as a "record symbolizing an excellence in mechanical achievement, a 
perfection in driving ability and a valued contirbution to the sport of 
drag racing."

The car is a post sedan with W31 ram air 350 with 325 hp.  It has 
documented, all original parts and all matching numbers down to the 
carburetor, and only 9,000 actual miles.  It has "pop bottle" hub caps 
and the radio was taken out.  The body is painted Aspen Green with black 
stripes.

I thought that this was remarkable until I read that the radio was taken 
out.  With that kind of weight reducation any car could do as well.

Bill Culp

------------------------------

From: Anectine@aol.com
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 21:01:47 -0300
Subject: Re: am-fm stereo radio installation 

thanks bill   the manual says that an adapter will fit between the dash
bracket 
and glovebox but as far as i am concern there is no way there is enough
room    i have tried  every way i can to put it there but with no luck.
i also am trying to install the 8-track tape player  it looks a little
simpler 
thanks for the response I will keep trying
 chuck

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 21:06:11 -0300
Subject: Battery Problems Again!

Only 2 weeks after plunking down $$$ for a new top of the line Delco 
battery, I went to start the Cutlass today and it wouldn't go. Arggh!

Unlike last time when everything was dead, this time I had courtesy 
lights and everything seemed fine until I turned the key. Idiot lights on 
the dash lit for a split second, then dimmed out. Eventually with 
repeated on-off of the key I could get the starter solenoid to click, and 
eventually I could get it to turn over verrrrrry slowly. No way it would 
start.

Jump started it OK - no arc welding this time - and took it for a 
somewhat nervous drive to charge it up. No problems, but when I went to 
start it again about 6 hours later it turned over slowly, but caught. I 
figured if the engine was cold, there's no way it would start. 

Got out my multimeter suspecting a short somewhere in the system. 
Disconnected the battery cable and put the meter in series to test for 
any load. None, except when the clock clicked in for a fraction of a 
second. Found that hard to believe, so I turned on the underhood light. 
Wouldn't work, and neither would my meter anymore. Read the manual for 
it, load is 300 milliamps... ooops. Change fuse, vow not to do that 
again. Unable to test for current, I finally got the bright idea to 
measure the voltage across the battery terminals. A little over 10 volts. 
That explains why it only barely turns over. 

I figure I have a bad cell in the new battery since most of them have 6 
cells if I recall correctly. Before I take it back though, I wonder, is 
there anything in the car itself that could cause a battery to go bad in 
this way? I'm assuming there's no unknown load in the circuit based on my 
minute of testing. Right now it's sitting with the battery cable 
disconnected to see if it recovers any overnight. Dubious of that.

An aside: a couple of months ago I noticed my dash lights pulsating while
the car was running. Not extremely obvious but you could see it if you
looked for it. Figured it was just the way the old-style regulators worked
and thought little of it. But I recall recently someone had a similar
pulsation that led them to replace the whole regulator and solved a
no-start problem. He might also have killed a battery if memory serves.
The coincidence here is too close. Is there any conceiveable way a bad
regulator could kill a battery internally? Anyone had any experience
troubleshooting the old-style regulators? I know it's not a big-$ item,
but I hate to lose the Delco-Remy cover under the hood... 

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 16:13:10 -0300
Subject: Re: acquisitions

Chris Brown Witt wrote:
> 
> Picked up a '62 Cutlass convertible for parts... any interest?
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
> wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

I have some interest in parts for my 1962 Jetfire.  I need a good 
windshield washer bottle, steering center link, cast hood trim, 
transmission mount carrier bearing & brace, and various and sundry other 
parts.  What do you have?  I have a friend who may be interested in a 
solid car.

Bill Culp

------------------------------

From: MLupis5150@aol.com
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 21:17:44 -0300
Subject: Re: 442? 

It could not be a real 442 because the 2 in 442 stands for 2 door. 

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 01:00:21 -0300
Subject: Re: Battery Problems Again!

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
> 
> Jump started it OK ...

So everything BUT the battery seems OK.

> ... drive to charge it up. No problems ...

So the battery will take a charge.

> ... 6 hours later it turned over slowly, but caught.

OK, it's losing charge.

> ... measure the voltage across the battery terminals. A little over 
> 10 volts.
> ... 6 cells if I recall correctly.

Yup, 2 volt per cell times 6 cells = 12 volts.

> ... is there anything in the car itself that could cause a battery to 
> go bad in this way? 
> An aside: a couple of months ago I noticed my dash lights pulsating 
> while the car was running.
> ... similar pulsation that led them to replace the whole regulator...

BINGO!

> Is there any conceiveable way a bad regulator could kill a battery > internally? 

Oh, yeah.  A faulty regulator can cause over charging which can kill one 
or more cells.  This (with the pulsating lights) make the regulator look 
like the winner.  BTW, measure the battery voltage with the car OFF.  
Then measure it running at idle and at a very fast idle.  The voltage 
should read between .5 and 1.5 volts higher than the first reading.  
Anything more or less indicates a regulator problem (or, if always low, 
gen/alt).  Also, if I remember right, the design voltage for autos is 
13.8 volts.


The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 21:59:50 -0300
Subject: RE: Battery Problems Again! 

I had a similiar problem with my '72 cutlass wagon.  I replaced the starter 
and the regulator after the car started turning over slowly.  Shortly after, 
the starter wouldn't disengage until the engine was running.  So it would just 
turn over would me holding the key!  Neat party trick, but was scary on cold 
days.  It would just stop trying to turn over, and eventually stopped.  But 
then I had to disconnect the battery to give it another go.

Hoping this helps,

Roger Borlase
'72 Cutlass Wagon
http://www.cjnetworks/olds/noframesreg/borlase.html

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 23:14:37 -0300
Subject: Re: stuffs 

In a message dated 96-05-19 16:19:23 EDT, you write:

>For those of you with Casteele's "The Cars of Oldsmobile", you can see
>several pictures of Olds Parlor-mobiles made by Cotner-Bevington of
>Blytheville, Arkansas.
>
>

Gregg,

Yes, I have the book up at the shop. I will look at it next chance I get!

Thanks,

Greg

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 23:14:39 -0300
Subject: Re: primo photos wanted 

In a message dated 96-05-19 16:57:19 EDT, Mike writes:

>TORO?????  No Toro, no buy.  Whatya say, Toro-heads?
>
>
>We are currently looking for photographs of all types of classic cars for
> inclusion in our encyclopaedia 

Evidently this guy spells as well as his ability to recognize a classic car!
  LOL

Greg K

------------------------------

From: Jeff Hunter <jchunter@xcelco.on.ca>
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 00:12:25 -0300
Subject: Re: primo photos wanted 

At 11:14 PM 5/19/96 -0300, you wrote:
>In a message dated 96-05-19 16:57:19 EDT, Mike writes:
>
>>TORO?????  No Toro, no buy.  Whatya say, Toro-heads?
>>
>>
>>We are currently looking for photographs of all types of classic cars for
>> inclusion in our encyclopaedia 
>
>Evidently this guy spells as well as his ability to recognize a classic car!
>  LOL
>
>Greg K
>

If you mean the spelling of encyclopedia as 'encyclopaedia', it is not a
spelling error.  It is some latin spelling or somethin' :)

Jeff Hunter

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #179
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