
oldsmobile-digest          Wednesday, 5 June 1996       Volume 01 : Number 195


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 11:26:10 -0300
Subject: Re: Starfire and Monza 2+2 

>Andrew C. Green wrote:

Uh, no, actually that was someone else... (those pesky attributions! :-)

>> >- The 2+2's were originally designed for the Wankel rotary engine.  To
>> >
>American Motors got caught up in that Wankel mess by building the Pacer 
>with the promise of an engine and then no engine.  They ended up with a 
>car with a tough way to fit an engine.  It finally got an inline 6 with 
>the firewall pushed way back.  It also eventually got a V8 which 
>couldn't be serviced because of space problems.

As I remember, they also had to redesign the hood for a slightly higher
profile and a bigger grille for increased cooling airflow.

But didn't the Buick Skyhawk with its V-something engine stuffed in
require releasing a motor mount and jacking up the engine to reach
the right rear spark plug? I assume an Olds Starfire, if it had the
same engine, would cause the same grief?

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 11:52:24 -0300
Subject: Re: What the?!...was Re: '68 SSII Wheels 



------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 11:39:39 -0300
Subject: Re: What the?!...was Re: '68 SSII Wheels 

>OK...this is what i have done...i found a set at Carlilse...there was a
>vendor there who sold the blank centres and then had a rocket emblem to
>fit...it looks pretty sharp...and according to the parts guy down at the
>Olds shop, he had found a adhesive centre that was made during the 70's that
>fit on certain centres

I think they're fairly common. The MotorMite "HELP!" line of spare
parts includes a blank center cap for the Z28 wheels, and they may
have an Olds logo that will fit. If not, I've seen sheets of aftermarket
logos in different sizes at auto parts places. Spent some time with a
sheet of Pontiac logos once, picking the right diameter to dummy up a
fake set of Pontiac wheel covers for a beater I was selling, by using
some old-but-clean, unidentified wheel covers that had a blank circle
in the middle, and sticking in a Pontiac logo of the right diameter.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Jan Ben <jib@big.att.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 12:47:34 -0300
Subject: '61 F85 FS in NJ $850

Seen in local paper, not related to seller in any way, blah blah..
That's the first year of the 215  alloy v8

908-818-1178

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 12:09:25 -0300
Subject: Main seal- rubber

No kidding. Ford main seals.

Upon examining the main seal from/for the 425/455 engine, it says on the
rubber, in addition to "Ford" in a circle...
  D2VE-6701-AA
and a tiny "SC1" as well...
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: Todd.Saunders@mailport.delta-air.com
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 12:53:00 -0300
Subject: Starfire for Sale

     Gents
     
     With all of the talk about starfires, I just recently took note of one 
     for sale.  It has the V-8 motor in it and needs work.  They want 
     $1000.00.  Is this a good deal?  Anyone interested, mail me abd I will 
     give you the particulars.
     
     Todd
     
     todd.saunders@mailport.delta-air.com

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 13:30:41 -0300
Subject: Re: Starfire for Sale 

At 12:53 PM 6/4/96 -0300, you wrote:
>     Gents
>     
>     With all of the talk about starfires, I just recently took note of one 
>     for sale.  It has the V-8 motor in it and needs work.  They want 
>     $1000.00.  Is this a good deal?  Anyone interested, mail me abd I will 
>     give you the particulars.

What's the year?


************************************************
Daniel A. Gulino
Associate Professor and Graduate Chairman
Department of Chemical Engineering
Ohio University
Athens, Ohio  45701-2979
(614) 593-1495
(614) 593-0873 (fax)
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://www.ent.ohiou.edu/che/faculty/gulino.html
************************************************

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 06:09:38 -0300
Subject: Re: olds 350 and 403 

     Does Hawaii require you to keep the computer?  If so, I wonder if the 
     computer can handle 403 cubes?  Going with that much of a larger 
     engine you'd probably need a different carb, which would be a tricky 
     proposition while keeping the computer controls.  The stock computer 
     controls and carb would probably work with a 350, although with either 
     engine you might have to machine the knock sensor mount on the rear of 
     the block, I don't know if earlier engines had a mount there or not.  
     I'm not an authority on 403's, but from what I've heard they develop a 
     proportionately larger amount of power than the 350's (like 1/7th 
     more).  The windowed main webs are supposed to be the weak point in 
     the 403.  For putting around town and the occasional drag they're 
     probably fine, but for all-out race they'd be a problem.
     
     I'd keep the 200-4R.  The low first gear is great for drag racing, and 
     the overdrive lets you have your cake and eat it too (although it's 
     not like you're going to go on long highway drives in Hawaii).
     
     Good luck finding an 8.5" posi unit!  I haven't had any luck.  A 
     friend who's into Monte Carlo SS's said he had a source for cheap used 
     ones, but so far he hasn't come through.  Auburn gear makes an 8.5" 
     carrier you can drop in, it's about $270 new.  I'll probably go this 
     route when I get the money.
     
     Tom L.

------------------------------

From: "BARKER A." <atbarker@mke9.ra.rockwell.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 16:33:52 -0300
Subject: engine swap questions

I'm putting a 455 in my 81 Cutlass, does anyone know what rate springs I need to
change to?  I want to get headers right away, if I go with Hooker, do I need the
regular ones or the super competition series...how much work has to be done for
this, should I do this after the engine is in, or while dropping the engine, I
still don't understand exactly what part of the wheel well has to be cut or how.
 Thanks for any help

Tony

------------------------------

From: "Ron Franklin" <oldhaven@biddeford.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 14:54:13 -0300
Subject: Re: '61 F85 FS in NJ $850

On  4 Jun 96 at 11:47, Jan Ben wrote:

> Seen in local paper, not related to seller in any way, blah blah..
> That's the first year of the 215  alloy v8
> 
> 908-818-1178

Just out of curiousity, does anyone have a short list of vehicles equipped 
with this engine and variants over the years?  It could help if I ever 
decide to go shopping in the local trade-a-rag.  It would also be nice to 
know of the different transmissions/bellhousings which were used, as a help 
to engine swaps.  Some of you know this all but I'll bet there are a couple 
of others out there besides me who don't.  Great stuff here by the way.

Ron Franklin
 

Bowdoin, Maine, USA

------------------------------

From: "BARKER A." <atbarker@mke9.ra.rockwell.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 18:22:47 -0300
Subject: 455 Edelbrock intake

Does anyone have a used Edelbrock Torker II intake manifold for a 455,  are
there any other companies that make an intake similar to this?

Tony
81 Cutlass

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 16:42:25 -0300
Subject: Misc. items

> From: Todd.Saunders@mailport.delta-air.com
>      I have seen a few Olds cars out there that I really like and am in the

He's catching on...

>      --info gathering-- stage of my purchase.  What I have seen I think is
>      a 1970 Olds Cutlass convertible.  I am looking for something rough and
>      in need of restoration.  My question to all of you experts, is what
>      should I look for?  Please keep in mind that I am interested in only
>      driving the vehicle for fun.  I do not want a 100-points car and wipe
>      it with a diaper every Sunday.
>
>      My only criteria are as follows:
>      Olds 1970 or thereabouts
>      Convertible
>      prefer 455 engine
>      prefer automatic
>      Is there a CUTLASS convertible or are they all 442 Convertibles?
>      What is the difference?

Sounds like an SX would be right up your alley- Sort of a 442 in sleeper
clothes. Many convertibles around. There's a real cheap one in HI right now,
fits the description OK ["rough"]...
  You would do well to get a 70-72 [similar body style] and build a 455 to 1970
Toronado specs, spicier cam perhaps. In GA, it's likely not an issue, but avoid
frame rot, body rot.
  The usual list of Good Things: anti-spin rear end, 3.42 or higher numerically
ratio, console, buckets, air, disc brakes, dual exhaust, Nice original radio,
gages package, sport suspension, anti-sway bars...
  Don't have a book handy right now, but the 442's had big engine [455], sporty
suspension, nice interior.
  Then there's the W25 fiberglass hood with Outside Air Induction air cleaner
setup, or the more potent W30 package which used the W25 hood & OAI plus a much
sportier engine and diff. gears, trans, etc.
  Watch out for faked-up W30's or 442's- get an Olds-clued person to check
engine #, trans #, diff ID, etc. before paying primo price.

> I hate to tell you this. It isn't a 4-4-2. 33687 is a Cutlass "S" V-8
> Holiday Coupe. Are you sure it doesn't say 34487? That would be a 4-4-2.

*BZZZZT* Oh, sorry, incorrect response! Yes, the '68-69 442's >>VIN<< starts off

344... but the BODIES were still Cutlasses, Cutlass-S if I amnot mistaken. Even
my glorious W30's are based on that body, and the trim tag says so, and I know
they are factory W30's... -Chris-

> tmorris@BT1DC18E.bet.ibm.com wrote:
> > Hey everybody, I'm still looking to buy a nice driver 442, 4 sp, preferably
> > 66-67, or 69-72 years, non-convertible.  If you have any leads, pls email me

> >
> > Todd Morris
> I am an Oldsmobile Salesman in Kokomo, IN.  I have on my lot a 1967 Olds
> 442.  It is light blue with black buckets, but it has an automatic
> trans. :(  I am asking 8995 for it.
> 400 eng AT AM/FM

There ya go... Might even be a factory issued 442- hard to tell in '67....
Sounds kinda pricey for that sort of car in that section of country, though,
the rustbelt... I presume you have checked Hemmings Motor News already to see
what's available and what folks are asking for such units... If not, do that
first, then inquire as to which might best suit your needs...
- --Chris--

> > OK, 3 times the lye, 1/2 the water, see what happens...
> > Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
>
>     Uh, so...like, did it work?
> And about it being exact...it's like I said before...the worst thing that
> can happen is you add too much NaOH, and turn it into a science project
> by forming crystals all over your car parts! |)

Well, sorta... last time I fished out a part, it was blackish like discolored,
but pretty greaseless. I suspect that I have not enough heat, need to get the
gas burner set up before I condemn it. However, it may be a moot point; I
inquired at the machine shop- they said about maybe [key word] $10 to clean a
5-gal. bucket of misc. fasteners, brackets, etc. If true, I'll just do that,
they come out looking brand new... paintable. --Chris--

> Maybe this is one of those convertible, three on the tree cars with the Eldo
> carb? --Paul

Yeah, a 4-door, at that... Pace Car. W-20 or something like that. :)

> From: Jeff & Patti Kobinsky <jkpkobin@rvlink.com>
> Subject: 65 - F85 & 74 442
>
> Both are original with 330 and jetaway and 455 with the turbo 400.
> I need sheetmetal (quarters) for the 74, and don't know where to start with
> the rest.

Start with the list of suppliers on the Bryceman's web page: www.442.com
Year One, JCWhitney, Nat'l Automotive Lines, Engine Service Group, Warpath,
Kanter Auto Products, Mondello, Dave Smith, etc.
  Get a Hemmings [or a subscription], peruse the "O" section, call/ write for
catalogs. Join the Olds Club of America, use your free ad to solicit parts.
  Make a list of what-all you think each car needs. Attach an e$timate. Then
multiply that estimate by 3 or so. Buy complete kits if possible- Kanter's
brakes kit, for instance, is very complete, and reasonably priced for what you
get.

> Do I keep the current driveline(s), or do I update?

Keep original. What could possibly be gained by 'updating'? Save $100 in parts
cost? In this kinda project, $100 bills flow like water.

> A "plan" would be a super strong combo that could drive all day and take a
> squirt of No2 if necessary.

You think that's fun try adding N2O instead of No2...  :)
Nitrous Oxide is N2O... N02 would be like oxides of nitrogen, a combustion
                   byproduct...

> From: herman <hermanl@hawaii.edu>
> Subject: olds 350 and 403
> I sold the car now and bought a 85' 442.  The 442 has a non posi rear
> end.  I want to change the 307 motor.  I know Oldsmobile made two
> different small blocks during the 70's, the heavier block (1976 and
> before) and the lighter block (1977 and after).
>         I picked up a 72' olds 350, in the gold stock paint, and has the
> code 7 heads.  Also , I have another option of buying 79' old 403 from a
> trans am.  I planned to rebuild one of these motors without any major

                   [Dang fripping computer gave me margins somehow!]
                   Um, check that 403 for the highly desired "4A" block ID, on
                   the shelf behind the water pump, next to the oil pressure
                   sender... If so, get it.
                     If not, if it's the ordinary "4A" block [NOT the HEAD
                   casting ID like the '72's "7" or more likely "7a" ID...]
                   then go with the '72 350 engine. Put higher compression
                   pistons in it, cam, intake, dual exhaust... usual tricks.
                   Spring for big valves if you're feeling extravagant.

> My friend told me
> the older the block (the 350) is, the more power it has.    He  also told

                   Well, to a point, yes... pre-71 engines had higher
                   compression, but if you are rebuilding, you get to change al
                   that to your heart's content, right?

> me that the 403 has thinner walls and is easier to blow the 403 motor
> than a 350.  I thought that the bigger the displacement, the more power,
> but he says that have the same amount of power.  Is all of this true?  He

                   Well, the 403 was choked by smog compression [8:1] and
                   such... treat it to the same compression, etc. tricks as the
                   350... and you will get, duh, more power from more cubic
                   inches of air/fuel burned per revolution...
- --Ah, got my margin back-- um, One neat trick is to use small-chamber 350 heads
on the 403 engine, boosting compression to about 9:1... the '72 350 heads would
be ideal for that. If you can swing it, get BOTH engines, and do that.
Externally, both engines are the same as the 307 you are replacing... only an
expert could tell [say, at smog test time...].
  Minimum budget potent engine: buy both engines, give #7 heads a valve job and
drill head bolt holes to 9/16" to fit 403's head bolts... Treat the 403 to a
timing set, clean the pieces of old timing gear out of the oil pump pickup,
inspect the bearings for abnormal wear. Assemble the 403 block and 350 heads.
Treat it to a cam/lifters if at allpossible while apart... the 403's typically
have lame lift/duration of like .400 lift and 250? duration, though a T/A 403
might be a bit better cam...
- ------ I reiterate... If the 403's -BLOCK- ID is "4A" then BUY IT QUICK----
- --Chris--
> is my friend and all, but I just want second opinion since I am plan to
> change the motor once.  Do anybody know the specification in these
> motors.

What specification exactly?

>     Another thing is, should  I swap an 8.5 rearend non-posi 3.73
> gear for a g-body with 200-4R(good condition) for a 7.5 rearend posi 3.23
> gear with a th-350 non computer.  I plan to leave it stock or put the
> th-350 with 3.23 posi while changing the motor.  Any advice?  I am just
> curious, do anybody have an 8.5 posi (A- body or G-body)for sale.

Keep the bigger gearset. If you really think you need posi, have it converted
to posi... -Chris-

> From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
> Subject: Flow Figures
>
> Would someone mind posting the flow figures and the specifics of the
> testing for Olds heads as found in the Mondello Tech manual?

Hey, man, buy yer own damn Tech Manual! :)
That's alot of info to copy down... 4 charts with 6 lines each, 6-8 points per
line... Only C, E, and J? BB heads are even shown...
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: Bill Gochenour <billg@sjuvm.stjohns.edu>
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 19:54:25 -0300
Subject: 83/84 H/O Parts WANTED

I'm looking for 83/84 Hurst/Olds parts, new/used are both ok. Topping the 
list are the rear deck spoiler #22520884 (or just the tips from a damaged 
spoiler), license plate #22520895, console shifter plate #22520892, H/O 
header emblem.
- -- 
Bill                                           __          __       __
                                              /  |        /  |    /  _ \
83 Hurst/Olds 15th Aniversary Edition       /    |      /    |   |_|  | |
86 442                                    /  / | |_   /  / | |_      / /
                                         |____    _| |____    _|   / /__
                                              |__|        |__|   |______|

------------------------------

From: Lucas Frick <frick@macrochip.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 16:19:42 -0300
Subject: Re: 455 intake

I have a Holley Street Dominator single plane intake that works great =
attached to the 455.  It sounds incredible when all 4 barrels open up.  =
I shaved the writing off it so it looks a little bit stock to the =
untrained eye.  But it is pretty tall.  Haven't seen these things for =
sale through any of the mail order places, but I would check around =
because I really like it.

Luke

------------------------------

From: J.Easton@zds.com (Jeff Easton)
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 16:35:35 -0300
Subject: Drill Diagrams

     Okay.  Got my original Olds OAI hood back from the painters and on the 
     car yesterday.  The hood scoops change the character of the car quite 
     a bit.  My advice to anyone else thinking of trading up to a OAI hood, 
     dont, unless you have deep pockets... :-)
     
     On to tackle the last remaining nit, the trunklid is missing the 442 
     emblems.  Seems former owner replaced the trunklid in a mild 
     restoration many years ago and never bothered to drill and mount the 
     442 emblems.  When I got the car, in the requisite "bucket of parts" 
     was the old emblems with the pins filed off.  I had bought some better 
     looking originals a while back assuming I'd put those on instead.  
     After fiddling with making a drill diagram out of thin air, I finally 
     decided that if I used it, the numbers would never line up correctly. 
     So I chickened out and used some double sided tape to put the old ones 
     on.  Looks okay, but I suspect they'll fall off at some point since I 
     used whatever tape was laying around.
     
     How can I get an accurate drill diagram for the 442 pin holes?  If the 
     answer is "nowhere", is there some kind of emblem tape that is 
     specifically used for this purpose, with a strong adhesive?
     
     -Jeff Easton
     Zenith Data Systems
     
     1970 442  4-Speed   

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 17:13:28 -0300
Subject: Re: Drill Diagrams 

>     How can I get an accurate drill diagram for the 442 pin holes?  If the 
>     answer is "nowhere", is there some kind of emblem tape that is 
>     specifically used for this purpose, with a strong adhesive?

3M makes an Emblem & Weatherstrip adhesive specifically for cars, but I
kind of think it's intended more for flexible stuff like _plastic_ emblems
and bump strips. If you hunt around, though, I think you'll find a thin
foam tape with double-sided adhesive that will work; I don't know what it's
called but it's the stuff that also comes pre-applied to the back of
aftermarket molding strips. Are the numbers flat on the backside? You will
need all the square footage you can get for gluing or taping purposes.

All that aside, though, I'd be a little concerned that someone will relieve
you of your stick-on emblems. But maybe you live in a better neighborhood
than I do.  :-)

Tried an Olds service manual? There may be a drilling template in there,
especially if replacement trunk lids weren't pre-punched for different
nameplate castings. I wouldn'tna thunk they were...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Lucas Frick <frick@macrochip.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 18:23:29 -0300
Subject: FW: Drill Diagrams

- ----------
From:  Lucas Frick[SMTP:frick@macrochip.com]
Sent:  Tuesday, June 04, 1996 4:19 PM
To:  'oldsmobile@ccn.cs.cal.ca'
Subject:  RE: Drill Diagrams

I used a piece of wood as a template for the 442 holes.  Use a 90 degree =
thing - don't know what it is called, might be an Angle.  After many =
holes drilled in the wood to get the spacing correct, I then transferred =
this to masking tape.  Drill through the masking tape and you have got =
it. This worked when I had a quarter panel replaced with a cutlass =
quarter.  I also replaced the trunk emblems with numbers that were not =
pitted last year.  You will probably need to use this same template to =
drill holes from the inside of the trunk to place the retainers on the =
back side of the numbers.  After the retainers were put on I used bondo =
to patch up the inside of the trunk.=20


    =20
     How can I get an accurate drill diagram for the 442 pin holes?  If =
the=20
     answer is "nowhere", is there some kind of emblem tape that is=20
     specifically used for this purpose, with a strong adhesive?
    =20
     -Jeff Easton
     Zenith Data Systems
    =20
     1970 442  4-Speed  =20

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 18:34:50 -0300
Subject: Re: Misc. items

On Tue, 4 Jun 1996, Chris Brown Witt wrote:
> > I hate to tell you this. It isn't a 4-4-2. 33687 is a Cutlass "S" V-8
> > Holiday Coupe. Are you sure it doesn't say 34487? That would be a 4-4-2.
> 
> *BZZZZT* Oh, sorry, incorrect response! Yes, the '68-69 442's >>VIN<< starts off
> 
> 344... but the BODIES were still Cutlasses, Cutlass-S if I amnot mistaken. Even
> my glorious W30's are based on that body, and the trim tag says so, and I know
> they are factory W30's... -Chris-

Well, if you have a '68 that has a VIN that starts with a "344" and a trim
tag that says "ST 68-33687" then I'll take your word for it and offer
apologies to Darren. But that clearly is *not* what the '68 Service Manual
I have in front of me says. The 3 digits after the "68-" part of the
number indicates "division series" and the chart says a 4-4-2 series is
344. Keep in mind that '68 was the first year for the 4-4-2 as a separate
model series, so it's logical that the tag would be different from a
Cutlass. Presumably if your argument holds true then all A-body based
models of the same style would have the same code in that part of the tag
regardless of series (i.e. all 4-door sedans regardless of whether they
were F-85, Cutlass, or Supreme would theoretically be coded the same). 
Whether they do or not, I don't know. The "87" is the body type and they
*would* be the same for either a 4-4-2 or Cutlass. Possibly a situation
where the manual was printed before the assembly line procedures were
finalized? Or just flaky manufacturing logic on the plant floor?

Regardless it's nice to have yet *another* owner of a '68 here... 
obviously someone with *excellent* taste in fine automobiles!

;-)

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 17:49:51 -0300
Subject: Re: FW: Drill Diagrams 

>I used a piece of wood as a template for the 442 holes. [...] After many 
>holes drilled in the wood to get the spacing correct, I then transferred 
>this to masking tape.  Drill through the masking tape and you have got it.

Clever. I was going to suggest something similar:

Line the numbers/nameplates up on a piece of thin cardboard, and when
you're happy with the positioning, press the pins through the cardboard.
With a felt-tip pen, trace around the nameplate(s). Then remove them, and
your piece of cardboard is now an illustrated drilling template: stick it
on your trunk lid, centerpunch your holes and start drilling...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Herman Hon Wah Lau <hermanl@hawaii.edu>
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 20:01:45 -0300
Subject: Re: olds 350 and 403

thanks tom for your advice.  I planned not to run the stock computer 
carb  because the 403 comes with the stock non-computer one.    

------------------------------

From: Herman Hon Wah Lau <hermanl@hawaii.edu>
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 20:01:45 -0300
Subject: Re: olds 350 and 403

thanks tom for your advice.  I planned not to run the stock computer 
carb  because the 403 comes with the stock non-computer one.    

------------------------------

From: John DiSpirito <johnny@yogi-bear.stjohns.edu>
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 20:04:09 -0300
Subject: Re: 83/84 H/O Parts WANTED

Hello there... I received your message, I am looking for the same parts,
so if you find them please pass em on to me...

So bill, did you hear from the doctor? :)
johnny

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 21:37:45 -0300
Subject: June JWO

Interesting to note in the June JWO:

- - There is mention that Dave Smith Oldsmobile offers a closed loop, 
computer controlled electronic fuel injection system for the 455...

- - There is a picture of Bob Handren's '67 4-4-2...

- - There is a nice article by Dave Yaros (one of the quieter members of this 
list but one who has been here a long time) about his Olds history...

- - Several '70 to '72 convertibles for sale, let's see, a '70 SX for $15K, 
a '71 4-4-2 for $21.5K, a '71 SX that needs restoring for $4k (wonder 
_how much_ restoring it actually needs... that would be a neat car), a 
'71 Supreme for $7K, a similar '72 for $5K, and a '72 H/O for $28K... 

- - And, on the subject of out-of-this-world car prices, Steve Hemminghaus 
*still* hasn't found a buyer for his '72 4-4-2 W-30 convertible, offered 
at the bargain price of only $43,000.00 (yes, that's correct, $43K)...


Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 16:09:53 -0300
Subject: FAQ status and requests 

Try that again . . .

Life at work and home has been pretty busy lately.  I haven't been able to 
contribute to the mail list like I want to, and almost nothing has been done 
with the FAQ.  I apologize for late FAQs and late responses.  There have been 
some good discussions and information shared on the list.

The FAQ is available at http://web.cps.msu.edu/~twomeysh/ or through an e-mail 
request to myself at dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu.  Soon to be available 
elsewhere.


To move the FAQ along, let me make some requests for information:

1) Corrections and your changes and comments to sections.  These are very 
important.  If something also doesn't sound right or could be worded in a better
way, please let me know.

2) Those with '49 to '64 Rocket engine information, please send me whatever 
you might have.  This includes Block, Head, Crank, Manifold, and other 
engine info.  Id codes, locations of ids, dates, how to decode, what's 
good, what's bad, is this or that cast or forged, how to tell the 
difference, etc.  Use the FAQ headings as a guide, and let me know what 
else needs to be included.  This is a large gapping hole in the current 
FAQ!

3) W machine info.  A paragraph of two is needed for the W-30, W-31, W-33, W-34 
and W-35 sections.  The FAQ can be used as a content guide.  Volunteers?

4) Wiper motor repair.  Someone want to summarize that whole discussion?
54) Tire, rear end, trans gear calculation.  Tom L? want to summarize?

6) "Prepping a Car for Long Term Storage" needs a taker.

7) Recycling info and disposal of fluids section (ground doesn't count).

8) What else?  Make a suggestion!


Now that Joe Mondello has his Tech Ref out, we have another source of 
information.  I must get one myself!  The FAQ is not meant to out do or compete 
with or plagiarize Joe, but provide an easily obtainable and free guide to Olds 
in general, '49 to present.  This could be expanded back to 1897.  Anyone have 
engine/trans info they would like to share for those years?


Thanks to everyone who has contributed to the FAQ!  I look forward to releasing 
another version.

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    "Oldsmobile - powerful roadsters with big V8s"
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 16:08:52 -0300
Subject: FAQ status and requests 

Life at work and home has been pretty busy lately.  I haven't been able to 
contribute to the mail list like I want to, and almost nothing has been done 
with the FAQ.  I apologize for late FAQs and late responses.  There have been 
some good discussions and information shared on the list.

The FAQ is available at http://web.cps.msu.edu/~twomeysh/ or through an e-mail 
request to myself at dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu.  Soon to be available 
elsewhere.


To move the FAQ along, let me make some requests for information:

1) Corrections and your changes and comments to sections.  These are very 
important.  If something also doesn't sound right or could be worded in a better
way, please let me know.

2) Those with '49 to '64 Rocket engine information, please send me whatever 
you might have.  This includes Block, Head, Crank, Manifold, and other 
engine info.  Id codes, locations of ids, dates, how to decode, what's 
good, what's bad, is this or that cast or forged, how to tell the 
difference, etc.  Use the FAQ headings as a guide, and let me know what 
else needs to be included.  This is a large gapping hole in the current 
FAQ!

3) W machine info.  A paragraph of two is needed for the W-30, W-31, W-33, W-34 
and W-35 sections.  The FAQ can be used as a content guide.  Volunteers?

4) Wiper motor repair.  Someone want to summarize that whole discussion?
54) Tire, rear end, trans gear calculation.  Tom L? want to summarize?

6) "Prepping a Car for Long Term Storage" needs a taker.

7) Recycling info and disposal of fluids section (ground doesn't count).

8) What else?  Make a suggestion!


Now that Joe Mondello has his Tech Ref out, we have another source of 
information.  I must get one myself!  The FAQ is not meant to out do or compete 
with or plagiarize Joe, but provide an easily obtainable and free guide to Olds 
in general, '49 to present.  This could be expanded back to 1897.  Anyone have 
engine/trans info they would like to share for those years?


Thanks to everyone who has contributed to the FAQ!  I look forward to releasing 
another version.

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 16:38:59 -0300
Subject: Re: Fuel injection 

Barry Grant (BG) Fuel Systems has development a VFI (Venturi Fuel 
Injection) system using a Holley 750 body.  Looked like a 1000 CFM body was 
also being developed.

There was a review in March or April Car Craft.  The only numbers they 
showed were for the high RPMs, but extrapolating to the low RPMs (lots of 
gotcha here) it still seemed impressive.  If I get some info I'll post it.

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    "Oldsmobile - powerful roadsters with big V8s"
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu

- -----------------
Does anyone know if there are aftermarket fuel injection systems (TPI,
EFI...etc)  for 455 engines? Or does anyone know of anyone who will design
and build them. I have a 69 455 that I'd like to fuel inject.  No Holley
Projection systems. Is it possible to modify TPI system off a chevy 454 to
fit an Oldsmobile? 

------------------------------

From: "G. Douglas Burton" <gdburton@seidata.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 23:27:56 -0300
Subject: Re: '84 Cutlass V-6 

Several people responded to my questions about the oil pressure problem I am
having, thanks to all that did.  Almost everyone suggested an oil pressure
gauge which I bought today and tried to install.  After a long time looking
for the oil light sending unit, I think I found it.  There is some sort of
device which looks like a sending unit screwed into the engine (block?) just
above the oil pump/filter housing.  It has 3 wires going to it.  First of
all, is this the sending unit, and second, do I need to install a Tee so
that both this unit and my new pressure hose can be attached at the same
time, or is it okay to do away with the old sending unit and tape off the
wires?  Someone said that this input is necessary for the computer.  Anyone
know for sure?

Just for everyone's info, I changed the oil & filter yesterday using
Pennzoil 10w30.  I noticed a big improvement, but the oil light did flicker
a bit once at idle since I made the change.  I plan to install the gauge
(soon as I find out about the old sending unit) and change the oil & filter
again after 500 miles, this time using straight SAE 30 oil.  The most common
comment about this problem was that the bearings were badly worn causing the
low pressure.  The gauge should shed some more light on the problem and I
will try to keep everyone informed as I progress...

Thanks again for all the help.

Doug

gdburton@seidata.com
 

*************************************************************************
*          Another Meaningless Fact from Sluggo's Collection            *
*************************************************************************
       
According to a recent study, housewives feel more stressed than working women.

6-4-95

------------------------------

From: SG Hartfelder <shartfel@planet.eon.net>
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 00:41:59 -0300
Subject: Re: Step Plates

Thanks for the info Lloyd!  Much appreciated.....




Lloyd Culp wrote:
> 
> SG Hartfelder wrote:
> >
> >
> > I've been scouring my rod magazines and can't seen to find where I could
> > get an antique 'Step Plate'.
> >
> > > Any idea's where I could find them?
> >
> > *********************************************
> > SG Hartfelder         Voice:403-498-8264
> > 10009-108 St.           Fax:403-425-4627
> > Edmonton, AB  T5J 3C5
> > CANADA                shartfel@planet.eon.net
> >
> > '1938 Olds  --  Street Rod
> 
> Look in Hemmings in the Ford section at Model A's.  They are reproduced
> for them constantly and some have no names on them.  Consider:
> 
>         Mac's Antique Auto Parts - Free catalog at 800-777-0948
> 
>         Bratton's Antique Auto Parts - Free catalog at 800-255-1929
> 
>         Gaslight Auto Parts - $2 catalog at 513-652-2145
> 
>         Joe Smith Antique Ford & Hot Rod Parts - $3 catalog at
> 800-235-4013
> 
>         Patrick's Antique Cars & Trucks - Free catalog at 520-836-1117
> 
> Bill Culp

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 03:17:41 -0300
Subject: Re: 1984 Cutlass V-6 

>>Stayed there an hour and this time the oil light stayed on
>>for about 2 blocks and the ticking noise was much more noticeable.  Parked
>>the car in front of my house and checked the oil.  It was full, but very
>>dirty in appearance.
>[...]
>>Now here are my questions.  First, how does one know if the passages are
>>clogged or if the oil pump itself is the problem?

                            <<<  S N I P  >>>

>>Any suggestions short of pulling the engine
>>will be appreciated.  I'm not sure if the oil pan can be removed without
>>pulling the engine, but I will also be looking into that possibility.
>
>Dunno; I kind of think on your car you'll have to release the mounts and
>jack/hoist the engine up a bit. But in any event, I think a mechanical
>oil gauge will tell you that your oil pump is going.

     I've kinda halfway followed this thread, and haven't noticed the almost
obvious point/question.  How many miles are on it?  I question this due to
the mention of the other Cutlass that had 250K on it and exhibited "similar"
problems.  First of all, you got the car for a song, and there's likely a
good reason for that.  I'm assuming there's at least 150K on it (just
guessing) and I haven't seen anyone suggest the likely truth to you, yet.  I
hate to be the one to break bad news, but I can almost put money on the fact
that you need bearings, not a pump.  Anything over 90K miles are good
candidates for this, and some abused victims need bearings at 45K *(very
abused)* If it's a new engine, then I'd have to say otherwise, but I don't
think that's the case.  The bearings are the heart of the oil pressure
problems in most cars; they wear out over time, and pressure is lost as a
consequence.  I'd say if your putting a pump in, your probably wasting $$$
because you're likely going to need to pull the whole critter ~soon~...  I
bought my '83 for $300, and put a rebuilt in it.  It rattles, too, so I'm
questioning the quality of the overhaul.  (The rebuild was out of a wagon,
wrecked soon after new engine...  $150 for car)  The lower cost options are
out there, so don't be too frightenned, but expect a new engine soon.  It
looks to me like you're going to need one.
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 03:17:48 -0300
Subject: Re: What the?!...was Re: '68 SSII Wheels 

>
>
>> 
>> Speaking of these wheels, anyone have any good screw-on SSII center caps 
>> for sale? I know they are still available from the catalog places but 
>> they're pricey. Mine could use freshening and if anyone has some in good 
>> shape (no pitting on the chrome) let me know.
>
>	This reminded me of something that I keep forgeting to ask you guys--
>I have seen a couple Cutlasses running around town with gold aluminum 
>wheels that look just like five spoke 15x7" Z-28 wheels of mid eighties 
>vintage.  Only thing is that they have rocket centers!  Look very stock, 
>so I was wondering if somebody could say for sure if they really were, of 
>if somebody found a clever way to fit a rocket center to a Z wheel.  It 
>looked good either way.

     Probably just stickers?  Maybe...
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: "Shawn M. Twomey" <stwom@ctp.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 08:02:01 -0300
Subject: For Lansing-area residents 

Oldsmobile car show/swap meet, Saturday June 15, 9-4pm, Main Administration
building, Townsend St., Lansing.  Info, 517 663-2397.

I got this out of the classifieds, does anybody know anything more about it?

__________________________________________________________________________
Shawn M. Twomey     |  "No!  Try NOT!  Do, or do not.  There is no try."
stwom@ctp.com       |  -Yoda
__________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

From: "Shawn M. Twomey" <stwom@ctp.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 07:51:22 -0300
Subject: Trouble codes 

Nothing new here, just a big thanks to Andy Green & Charlie for helping me
out with the Check Engine+RPM slippage problem I was having with my '85.  As
I noted before, I was experiencing engine speeds several hundred RPMs too
high at highway speed at the same time the Check Engine light was lit.  When
the light went off, I lost the extra RPM, etc.  I originally had assumed the
lockup torque converter was slipping, but, as Charlie mused:

> If the CTS is open, 
>the computer thinks the car is running at -40deg F.  That's pretty cold.  
>That's pretty rich, too.  (Remember the purpose of chokes? Same principle 
>here...)  I imagine that the O2 sensor can be detecting this really rich 
>condition and cutting the fuel back to compensate, forcing a lean 
>condition.

Andy helped me find the errant coolant sensor:

>Look for the two-wire, twisted pair lead pugged onto the top of the sensor
>almost out of sight under vacuum lines, fuel line and whatnot near the
>thermostat....I think you're going to find a really brittle plastic collar
that >breaks up
>when you squeeze it, or baked wire insulation that crumbles

Well, when I finally got around to looking at it, I did indeed find a
brittle plastic collar that came apart.  Luckily, my only problem was that
the insulation was melted, allowing the two wires to touch intermittently.
Alls I had to do was separate them.  There's no collar at all right now, but
I'm going to rig up something more permanent....In any case, I can't help
but be grateful for the quality of the advice on the list here.  It turned
out to be a really simple problem, but here I didn't have to waste any time
FINDING it, when it probably would have taken me hours to troubleshoot myself.

Thanks again,

__________________________________________________________________________
Shawn M. Twomey     |  "No!  Try NOT!  Do, or do not.  There is no try."
stwom@ctp.com       |  -Yoda
__________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

From: Willie Fruean <aceface@ohana.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 08:44:58 -0300
Subject: Re: '61 F85 FS in NJ $850

Ron Franklin wrote:
> 
> On  4 Jun 96 at 11:47, Jan Ben wrote:
> 
> > Seen in local paper, not related to seller in any way, blah blah..
> > That's the first year of the 215  alloy v8
> >
> > 908-818-1178
> 
> Just out of curiousity, does anyone have a short list of vehicles equipped
> with this engine and variants over the years?  It could help if I ever
> decide to go shopping in the local trade-a-rag.  It would also be nice to
> know of the different transmissions/bellhousings which were used, as a help
> to engine swaps.  Some of you know this all but I'll bet there are a couple
> of others out there besides me who don't.  Great stuff here by the way.
> 
> Ron Franklin
> 
> 
> Bowdoin, Maine, USA


Here it is....

F-85 1961-63 and the Jetfire in 1963.

Short enough for you?

Willie
'57 Olds Super 88!!!!!!!

------------------------------

From: Todd.Saunders@mailport.delta-air.com
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 11:21:00 -0300
Subject: 442 vs Cutlass

     Hello All
     
     While looking for a '70 convertible, I am not sure what exactly I get 
     with the 442 option.  Regardless, I want the 455 engine, but apart 
     from the badges, etc. what else does the 442 option have?
     
     Is there any good book(s) that I can purchase to tell me the 
     differences of each year and various options?
     
     Thanks in advance 
     
     Todd

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 10:21:19 -0300
Subject: Re: Trouble codes 

>Nothing new here, just a big thanks to Andy Green & Charlie for helping me
>out with the Check Engine+RPM slippage problem I was having with my '85.

Wheeeee!!! The weather in Chicago is gorgeous today; I get in to the
office and punch up my voicemail to hear a grateful customer report
that the bug fix I found for them last night in their code is working,
and they're back in production on schedule; and I open my email to find
this posting from Shawn.

Every now and then all the planets line up, or something...  :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 10:30:22 -0300
Subject: Re: 1984 Cutlass V-6 

>The bearings are the heart of the oil pressure
>problems in most cars; they wear out over time, and pressure is lost as a
>consequence.

Agreed, but wouldn't there be some other noises to go along with the bad
bearings? All he's reporting is a noisy lifter or three, due presumably
to the poor pressure in the galleys, but I'd have thunk that he'd also
be complaining about hammering and knocking noises from lower down if
bearings were going bad...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 10:38:28 -0300
Subject: Re: '84 Cutlass V-6 

>After a long time looking
>for the oil light sending unit, I think I found it.  There is some sort of
>device which looks like a sending unit screwed into the engine (block?) just
>above the oil pump/filter housing.  It has 3 wires going to it. First of
>all, is this the sending unit, 

Um, sounds like it, although I don't remember that many wires on my '82.
Maybe someone else should confirm this...

>and second, do I need to install a Tee so
>that both this unit and my new pressure hose can be attached at the same
>time, or is it okay to do away with the old sending unit and tape off the
>wires?

No, tee the pressure hose so that the old unit can still get a reading; from
the number of wires you saw, it sounds like something other than just the
warning light is interested in your oil pressure there.

>Someone said that this input is necessary for the computer.  Anyone
>know for sure?

Either that or the fuel pump...? Leave it connected anyhow...

>Just for everyone's info, I changed the oil & filter yesterday using
>Pennzoil 10w30.  I noticed a big improvement, but the oil light did flicker
>a bit once at idle since I made the change.

Right, but your fresh oil is probably not thinning out as badly as that old
crap that you drained. If you smelled any gasoline in the old oil, figure
that the gas contamination in combination with the hot engine would have 
been making for some _really_ thin oil.
 
Flickering at idle is usually mentioned as a "normal" condition in your 
owner's manual, although I've never been real happy to see it... How bad 
did the old filter look, BTW? Any rust?  :-)

>I plan to install the gauge
>(soon as I find out about the old sending unit) and change the oil & filter
>again after 500 miles, this time using straight SAE 30 oil.

Why would you change to SAE 30 next time?

>The most common
>comment about this problem was that the bearings were badly worn causing the
>low pressure.  The gauge should shed some more light on the problem and I
>will try to keep everyone informed as I progress...

Please do. I get a kick out of bringing old cars back from the near dead!

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 13:02:33 -0300
Subject: Re: For Lansing-area residents 

Yes this was posted a while back, but it's good to bring it up again!

I plan to be there wearing my B-man Web shirt.  I'm leading toward taking 
the '77 Delta daily driver.  Hope to see a lot of others there!  Maybe 
Chris will invite us over to get a glimpse of his tri-power 455.

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    "Oldsmobile - powerful roadsters with big V8s"
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
- -------------
Oldsmobile car show/swap meet, Saturday June 15, 9-4pm, Main Administration
building, Townsend St., Lansing.  Info, 517 663-2397.

I got this out of the classifieds, does anybody know anything more about it?

__________________________________________________________________________
Shawn M. Twomey     |  "No!  Try NOT!  Do, or do not.  There is no try."
stwom@ctp.com       |  -Yoda
__________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 13:20:37 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: 1984 Cutlass V-6 

Sometimes the rods won't knock with worn bearings.  Friend had a Ford van, 
351W.  Light on at idle of 600rpm.  At idle of 1400rpm, light was really 
faint.  But there was probably only 5 to 7 psi at the low pressure sensor.  
It didn't knock, but burnt some oil and leaked a bit out the rear main.  
Not much, but enough to where he ran it 3 qts low in a month, really ruined 
the rear main seal, trashed the rings or cylinders too.

He was running straight 30.  He really babied the motor and got 7,000 miles 
out of it before running it low and really killing the engine.  Would have 
gone longer for sure.  BTW, straight 40 is also available at the discount 
dept. stores also.  This stuff is great for your lawn mower.

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    "Oldsmobile - powerful roadsters with big V8s"
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu

- --------------------------
>The bearings are the heart of the oil pressure
>problems in most cars; they wear out over time, and pressure is lost as a
>consequence.

Agreed, but wouldn't there be some other noises to go along with the bad
bearings?

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 10:12:08 -0300
Subject: My trip to the Olds Dealer Yesterday

This story is in the vein of the "How was *your* weekend" thread of last week...

About a week and a half ago, someone rear-ended Big Blue while I was stopped
at a Stop sign, waiting to merge onto Rt 9.  Yup, hit by one of those Mass.
Drivers who wasn't watching where he was going.  First time Big Blue was *ever*
hit.  Was surprised at the damage:  dented rear bumper (all chromed metal, none
of this plastic cr*p, mind you), pushed in on left side, rubber crush zones
crushed, etc.  The kid's (he was 19, according to his license) Ch*vy C*rs*c*
got only a scuff mark on its nose!  So much for metal vs plastic.  Later on,
I thought about it & figure that all the damamge was internal to his car, and
his rubber nose bounced back (like Eddie Murphy said in Trading Places,
"The kung-fu man, he bruises on the inside!" :) )

So, the insurance co. mails me a check, and I head to Haskins Olds in Wellesley.
That's where my bro-in-law (the one who used to be my best friend until he had
the audacity to marry my sister :) ) works as a mechanic.  They have a nice body
shop with a good reputation.  They tell me, no prob, we can start it first thing
Wednesday morn , so why don't you give Snappy rental car a call, as they have an
'arrangement' with us, and they'll have a car waiting for you?

So I call Snappy, and they say they'll have a car there for me noon on Tuesday.
I get there 11:45, do all the paperwork with the writer for the body shop, and
wait for Snappy to show up.  And wait, and wait, and...  

The service writer makes a few calls to Snappy.  Oh, the car's on its way, they
say each time.  I spend time chatting with my bro-in-law on his lunch break.
He shows me a '78 Delta 88 he just bought off one of his co-workers, as it turns
out the 305 in his Bl*z*r has decided to go south, and he needs a new engine.
Quickly.  So, silly me sez, "'bout time you put a decent motor in that truck!
A nice Olds 350'll give it some pep!".  But no!  *This* Delta 88 came with
a Ch*vy 350, factory!!  So sometime next week I'll be helping him with a motor
swap  (btw, the body's not horrendously rough, and no dents that I could see,
so if'n anybody would like a Delta 88 carcass, one will be available soon in
the Boston area).

Had some more time to kill.  Got to sit in an Aurora... *very* cramped up front,
especially for a guy who's 6'3".  The salesman said, "Oh, lets try you in one
w/o the sunroof.".  Helps a little, but for $35K I don't want to feel quite so
claustraphobic.  Another $4K would put me in a Caddy Concours w/ the same basic
engine (my Grand Dad's car).  Not that I have the cash to blow anyways... :)

1:30 PM, a very attractive young woman from Snappy arrives with my rental car:
a '96 Olds Ciera SL (looks like they dropped the 'Cutlass' from the name).
Looks Plain-Jane, but it has the normal accouterments: A/C, pwr windos, decent
stereo... quite peppy too.  And daytime running lights.  We do the rental
paperwork stuff, and I'm on my way, at 2 PM, only a coupla hours later than
I planned.

Since my afternoon is shot (I usually get outta work at 3:30 -- getting in at
6:30 has its advantages!), I decide to go pick up Big Red, which I had returned
to the tranny shop to fix a mystery tranny leak I couldn't track down.
They had fixed it, so got my sister to drop me off there.  Get in, and turn the
key.  Nothin' :(  The guy in the tranny shop, who said it started just fine that
morn when he pulled it outside, and I start troubleshootin'.  Hmmm, lights
seem OK, and there *is* at least some power goin to the starter... hook up the
charger and wait 5 mins.  Turn the key and she fires right up.  

Oh well, time to find the drain (brand new Die-Hard Gold, in case anyone was
wondering).  And I show a charge on the voltmeter, although it's not as high
as I would've thought... bad diode on the internal regulator?  Will find out...

Anyway, just a little tale for your enjoyment this Happy Wednesday :)



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'88 Cadillac Brougham, a.k.a. 'Big Blue' -- Olds 307 Powered!!
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 11:45:51 -0300
Subject: My trip to the [Pontiac] Dealer Yesterday 

(This is more engine-related than car-related, so I figured I'd post
this anyway...)

My Bonneville has the supercharged 3800 V6 in it -- same engine as that
of the Aurora? Anyway, it was making squealing noises any day after being
driven in wet weather, visual inspection showed that one tensioner pulley 
was kind of "growling" at idle, the service manual indicates that the entire 
pulley assembly would have to be replaced (you can't repack or replace 
the bearing), and the end of my 3mo/3000mi powertrain warranty was looming,
so I made an appointment for yesterday and brought it in.

First bit of news: "The tensioner pulley isn't covered under powertrain."
"We've had two phone conversations already about this specific part, and
_now_ you're telling me this?" "Uh, I'll check with my manager." I leave
the car anyway.

Second: Dealer calls back: As a "goodwill gesture" they'll spring for free
parts if I pay labor. Their estimate is $80 for pulley assembly, $129 labor.
I agree, knowing that replacing the stupid thing requires draining the
cooling system, among other things, and they can have that job. Afterthought:
if I'd offered to buy the _part_ instead of the _labor_, I guess I'd have got
the limited lifetime repair warranty on it. Oh, well...

Third: Dealer calls again: They find the pulley in good condition, water
pump fine, supercharger fine, but alternator (driven on the _other_ belt
under the _other_ tensioner) squeals when they spin it. They want to replace
the alternator ($200, on them) for $98 labor (on me).

So this was my problem, which I should have consulted you guys on yesterday:
Take the free $200 part which _they_ think will fix it, or insist on the
free $80 part which _I_ think will fix it?

So... I took the free alternator. I reasoned that if they're wrong in the
near future, I'm only out $80 for a tensioner which I'll replace myself.
OTOH, if it turned out that _I_ was wrong, I would have had an unnecessary
repair _and_ be faced with buying a $200 alternator. I picked up the car,
paid $98, and noticed that the "goodwill gesture" of a free alternator
was even itemized on the repair printout with its own computer code.  :-)

Drove it in to work again today. So far, so good. Did I guess correctly?
Do the GM spring-loaded belt tensioner pulleys have a reputation for failing
that I haven't heard about?

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #195
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