
oldsmobile-digest          Saturday, 8 June 1996       Volume 01 : Number 198


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: BRAD.NICHOLSON@s3abac8.ssa.gov
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 14:51:37 -0300
Subject: Exhausting Questions 

     Simple questions
     
     1) Anyone have any experience replacing their catalytic
        converter and replacing it with a higher flowing design?
        If so, who was the manufacturer?
     
     2) Anyone replace their exhaust from the cat. back w/ a "high
        performance" dual exhaust kit from Hooker Headers.  Their's
        is a 2 1/2" aluminized pipe.  I did the Walker factory
        replacements 3 years ago just before the OCA Nats in NJ just
        so I wouldn't suck up exhaust fumes from Baltimore to NJ
        through the shifter hole in the floor (The Y-pipe rusted on
        the TOP seam!)
     
     3) Anyone have any experience w/ semi-synthetic oils, specifically
        Valvoline DuraBlend or Castrol's version?
     
     4) I feel like a 83-84 H/O owner w/ my 1987 442.  I'm still
        looking for interior trim pieces, grey not woodgrain, for mine.
        Any leads are appreciated.
     
     
     Thanks in advance and sorry for not posting much for the last month.
     I admit to not being as knowledgable as others in the group and do
     not want to give any mis-information. I have been absorbing all of
     it though and saving the good stuff to floppy.
     
     Brad Nicholson
     1987 442 W-42
     President - Capitol City Rockets Chapter, OCA
     76062.3042@compuserve.com
     

------------------------------

From: BRAD.NICHOLSON@s3abac8.ssa.gov
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 14:55:11 -0300
Subject: CCR Monthly Meeting 

     For anyone who is interested in the MD, VA & Wash DC area
     
     The Capitol City Rockets Chapter of the Oldsmobile Club of America 
     will be holding their monthly meeting on Wed June 12 @ Tysons Corner 
     Pizza Hut in Tysons Corner, VA  starting @ 7:30pm.  Topics of 
     discussion will be:
     
     1.  New chapter in New England forming
     2.  Fall Show updates from show committee members
     3.  Eating pizza and drinking beer
     4.  Anything else that comes up.
     
     Pizza Hut is located just about 1 mile outside the Washington Beltway 
     on Rt. 7 (Leesburg Pike) on the right hand side behind "Bath & 
     Beyond", across the street from Tyson's Corner Furd.  Any questions 
     just drop me a note.
     
     Everyone is welcome to attend and if you feel like it, joining CCR.
     
     Brad Nicholson
     1987 442 W-42
     President - Capitol City Rockets Chapter, OCA
     76062.3042@compuserve.com
     

------------------------------

From: BRAD.NICHOLSON@s3abac8.ssa.gov
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 14:53:50 -0300
Subject: Chrome Wheels 

     The wheels that I have been following the thread on are factory stock
     chrome wheels that where offered I think from 1985 through the end in 
     1988.  I have chased ads stating 5 spoke chrome Olds wheeels for the 
     last couple of years looking for the elusive Super Stock III Chrome 
     15" wheels that are rusting on my '87 442.  Every time I asked if the 
     center of the spokes were painted black. Every time they where.  This 
     is the easiest tip off that they are 14" as the 15" SS III's have 
     silver w/ a red pin stripe aropund the rim for the '83-4 H/O's and 
     gold w/ a gold pin stripe for the '85-87 442's
     
     The '78 or '79 {can't remeber the years} H/O had 5 spoke 14" aluminum 
     wheels that I think are very pretty for thodse bodies.  It was also 
     used as an option I think on the '80 442.  I even them in a dealer's 
     brochure for the early 80's Calais/Salon as an option.  The last Olds 
     aluminum wheel that I can remember for the Cutlass was a web design 
     similar to BBS wheels but a smaller webbing and more rim in the center 
     section. These where also 14" rims. 
     
     At Carlisle I got lucky and bought the last set of chrome SS III's 
     from Penney Casteele, after putting my name on them 4 months before.  
     Now I'm just saving up for a paint job before I put them on.  They are 
     resting comfortably in my basement with a light coat of wax.  Anything 
     else I can do to help prevent them from rusting prior to mounting.
     
     
     Brad Nicholson
     1987 442 W-42
     President - Capitol City Rockets Chapter, OCA
     76062.3042@compuserve.com
     

------------------------------

From: Dave Voorhis <dave@armchair.mb.ca>
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 14:21:33 -0300
Subject: Re: My trip, plus Aurora info 

At 10:04 AM 07/06/96 -0300, you wrote:
>>
>>1. Rear wheel drive, open axle
>>2. Front wheel drive, open axle
>>3. Four wheel drive, open axles
>>4. Rear wheel drive, limited slip
>>5. Front wheel drive, limited slip (I don't think such a thing is made)
>>6. Four wheel drive, limited slip rear
>>7. Four wheel drive, limited slip front and rear
>
>The Bonneville has FWD and traction control [...] Where would you put that in 
>the above list? 

I don't know.  I haven't driven a FWD vehicle with traction control under
slippery conditions.  I could guess (like I did with #5 -- I've driven all
the others), I guess, but that'd just be idle speculation.

Dave Voorhis, '66 and '67 Toros
dave@armchair.mb.ca
http://www.armchair.mb.ca/~dave

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 13:34:57 -0300
Subject: Re: My trip, plus Aurora info 

>I don't know.  I haven't driven a FWD vehicle with traction control under
>slippery conditions.  I could guess (like I did with #5 -- I've driven all
>the others), I guess, but that'd just be idle speculation.

Thinking about it a bit more... I'm not sure it compares, since the system
operates only in emergencies, and doesn't sound at all happy when it's
triggered -- you feel a slight shuddering through the steering wheel and
the ABS pump activates. It gets the job done, but would prefer not to,
whereas your limited-slip works without complaint.

Come to think of it, I drove a loaner '96 GP a couple months ago that
turned on a "LOW TRACTION" warning light, or words to that effect, if
the ABS was triggered. Nice touch, but also reinforces the notion that
the car is telling you to watch out.  :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 07:42:23 -0300
Subject: What *is* this thing?? 

     Here's my silly question for the day:  On the inside of the air 
     cleaner on my '84 H/O there's an air-filter shaped thing made of some 
     sort of mesh or screen material.  It fits concentrically inside my air 
     filter, is about 2/3's as tall as the filter, a bit under an inch 
     wide, and is fasted to the air cleaner with silicone.  It has no 
     moving parts that I can tell, and no vacuum or electrical connections.
     
     Does this thing have a purpose in life besides restricting air flow?  
     I'm sure it's restricting it somewhat, because I took my K&N filter 
     out for cleaning the other day and noticed that the top 1/3rd was much 
     dirtier than the rest (which is blocked by that _thing_).  I orignally 
     figured it was one of those snake-oil "air catalysts" that you see 
     advertised, and I was going to remove it, but my dad's Monte Carlo has 
     one too, and he bought it new.
     
     Signed,
     
     Confused.

------------------------------

From: <clint@boto.netherworld.org>
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 15:00:45 -0300
Subject: Re: Baltimore Area People?

On Fri, 7 Jun 1996 BRAD.NICHOLSON@s3abac8.ssa.gov wrote:

>      How many members on this list are in the Baltimore, MD USA area???
>
>      If anyone wants to, I know of a Drive-In movie theater that has
>      Saturday night cruises every week.  I'm tired of seeing people w/
>      bowties or blue ovals all the time.

I'm in Bel Air!  (about 20 min north of B'more...

Clint

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 15:11:32 -0300
Subject: My Mind is Going -- Sorry Pat!

The last word on the Tempest thing-ie, I promise :)

My mind has more than a few cobwebs these days, I remember what the name-plates
for all of the Full size Pontiacs are now...

Tempest, of course, was not one of them; but *Ventura* was.

That's where my muddled brain confused the issue; before Pontiac started using
the name Ventura for their Nova-derived chassis ("No-va" in Spanish means
"Won't go", BTW :) ), they used it for the base model of the full size Poncho,
perhaps to replace the Chieftain name?

Sorry Again Pat!  :)



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'88 Cadillac Brougham, a.k.a. 'Big Blue' -- Olds 307 Powered!!
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 15:18:32 -0300
Subject: Re: What *is* this thing??

> From: Tom Lentz <tlentz@teknon.com>
> Encoding: 996 Text
> To: oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
> Subject: What *is* this thing??
> 
> 
>      Here's my silly question for the day:

No such thing, of course :)
.
>      
>      Does this thing have a purpose in life besides restricting air flow?  
>      I'm sure it's restricting it somewhat, because I took my K&N filter 
>      out for cleaning the other day and noticed that the top 1/3rd was much 
>      dirtier than the rest (which is blocked by that _thing_).  I orignally 
>      figured it was one of those snake-oil "air catalysts" that you see 
>      advertised, and I was going to remove it, but my dad's Monte Carlo has 
>      one too, and he bought it new.

Are you sure its siliconed to your air cleaner, and not clipped on, and hooked
up to a hose to your PCV valve?  It sure sounds like the bit o' mesh to catch
the oil before it gets sucked into your intake...

But then I've felt awfully confused myself, recently :)



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'88 Cadillac Brougham, a.k.a. 'Big Blue' -- Olds 307 Powered!!
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

 
> 

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 15:31:27 -0300
Subject: Re: more and more '68ness 

At 10:39 AM 6/7/96 -0300, you wrote:

>The 1969 Pontiac dealer catalogs in my collection prominently showcase
>the 1969 "Executive", which looked like another Bonneville clone (in
>addition to the Catalina) and which as near as I can determine was never
>built...?


I saw a Pontiac Executive just last Sunday at a car show in
Lancaster, Ohio.


************************************************
Daniel A. Gulino
Associate Professor and Graduate Chairman
Department of Chemical Engineering
Ohio University
Athens, Ohio  45701-2979
(614) 593-1495
(614) 593-0873 (fax)
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://www.ent.ohiou.edu/che/faculty/gulino.html
************************************************

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 08:11:52 -0300
Subject: Re: Exhausting Questions 

     2) No, but I talked to someone who replaced theirs with a 2.5" system 
     from Torque Tech.  They said it sounded great and performed great, and 
     bolted right in on their '84 H/O and fit up to the cat, it's the same 
     kit that the Grand Nationals use.
     
     3) Yeah, I'm using Valvoline 10w40 semi-synth in my SO's 350 olds 
     powered truck.  I don't think it really needs it (esp. since it has a 
     7qt oil pan), but she noticed I was putting synthetic in my H/O and 
     said "I want some too!" so we compromised on the semi-synth.  Not sure 
     what to say about it, it works and does what oil is supposed to.  It 
     did cause the valve covers to leak a bit more than they already were 
     (since then fixed).  It doesn't burn any more oil than it did before 
     (which is about 1 qt in 1500 miles or so).
     
     4) Welcome to the club!  Currently I don't need any H/O specific 
     parts, but my eye is always open!  You'd think that an aftermarket 
     company would catch a clue and start making them, there's probably a 
     bigger demand for '83-'84 H/O replica parts than for the A-body H/O 
     replica parts.
     
     Ya wanna see fur and claws flying?  Throw an NOS shifter plate or 
     spoiler wingtips into the center of a group of '83-'84 H/O owners.  
     :-)
     
     I'm half toying with the idea of designing an under-the-bumper ram air 
     scoop (maybe even duals?) along with the ducting.  Maybe use a cad 
     program and see how much someplace would want to fabricate one.  Is 
     there any interest out there?
     
     Tom L.

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Exhausting Questions
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    6/7/96 10:42 AM

     
     2) Anyone replace their exhaust from the cat. back w/ a "high
     performance" dual exhaust kit from Hooker Headers.  Their's is a 2 
     1/2" aluminized pipe.  I did the Walker factory 
     
     3) Anyone have any experience w/ semi-synthetic oils, specifically
        Valvoline DuraBlend or Castrol's version?
     
     4) I feel like a 83-84 H/O owner w/ my 1987 442.  I'm still
        looking for interior trim pieces, grey not woodgrain, for mine. 
        Any leads are appreciated.

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 16:16:14 -0300
Subject: misc's

> From: urbanch@magi.com (Chris Urban)
> Subject: Re: timing
> Chris
> Are you using a degree wheel AND a dial indicator guage to dial in your cam
> because without both of these you will never be accurate.

But, of course! How do you reckon I established TDC on the degree wheel, or
when 0.050" lift had occured, if not with a dial indicator? If there's another
way, I'd like to hear about it...

> "caught" up with the VIN # until a few years later ('70).  The cowl tag will
> still give correct paint codes and interior trim.  BTW, no cowl tag
> differentiates a W car from a non-W car.  Also, the plant sequential # is

Careful.... 'No cowl tag' could be interpreted as meaning 'lack of a cowl
tag'... I hope what you meant was that "the numbers found on a cowl tag from a
68-9 442 will not identify that car as a factory W-car with certainty."  That
would be correct. HOWEVER- it WILL positively ID an H/O, as that was the only
Cutlass-body car to get the coveted Z-Z paint code, if I amnot mistaken.

> the unit # of that car that that particular plant made in that model year.
> I believe that this includes all models that they produced.  Either way it
> is a practically irrelevant #.

Well, unless you have like unit #100001 or something... out of the ordinary.

> I believe that I have seen fake 442's.  All that is needed is the rear
> bumper, a little black paint for the grill, and a few emblems on the
> outside.  The 350 engines have a 400 look if no one is knowledgeable.

Different grilles, different motor color... True, however, that the average
clueless C*evy fan would read an air cleaner decal, and if it says "Rocket 455"
or "442" then, hey, it must be, huh?  :-)

> I have saved a W-30 of 1968 vintage VIN tag as a keepsake from what I
> remember as a red two door W/black bench seat.  Bill Culp

Hmmm... did you save the cowl tag that goes with it? Compare numbers, etc.?

> then you ought to be pretty safe.  No doubt your getting a big discount,
> which explains the low cost.  Just hope he's not using a paint roller... ;)
> Paul

Yeah, everybody knows a fine camel-hair BRUSH is the proper way to paint a
car!  :-)

> 1974 Olds, Cutlass. gd. running cond. $500 OBO. Vernon,NJ,USA. Ask for Melissa
> at(201)764-3586

Smog motor, prolly rusty, what a deal.

>   Hope this doesnt incite a riot, but a co-worker has a Ch*vy Capr*ce with a
> 403 in it.  I went out and looked at it and it is indeed a -4A block (has 4A
> heads too).  This isnt the original motor for the car.  He had it replaced
> by a friend of a friend and a couple of weeks ago it dropped a valve.  Its
> sitting in a parking garage in Buffalo Grove, Il if anyones interested. :-)
>
>   If there's real interest, I can scrape the rest of the goo off and get the
> whole block casting number and try for the stamped VIN also.  I'll need to
> bring in a flashlight and mirror though...
> - -Jeff Easton

If you don't mind, that'd be great.Be the first kid on the block to obtain
proof positive that solid-main-web 403's exist! Again, one kind of "4A" block
is almost certainly SMW, another is a "maybe"- I don't have the manual handy
rigth now... The rest of the block ID # would be most helpful.

> Chris Brown Witt wrote:
> QUOTE
> > All my posts shall henceforth be copyrighted, don't you dare quote them
> > or you will be eyed suspiciously!
> ENDQUOTE
> Uh-oh.    :o
> The 66 Toro and Mike

Just for that, I'm tearing apart the 66 Tor engine when I replace it with the
race 425 next week! [Well, actually, it needs to come down for inspection/
repair anyhow... makes funny ticking noises now, and spits back thru the
carb...] -Chris-

> Pat, I'm gonna look in the brochure as soon as I get home....
> I know Tempest was used on the intermediates later, but I'm almost positive
> in the brochure it lists it on the Full Size body style instead (or perhaps
> as well?) of the intermediate body... I remember thinking it odd that they did
> that.  Will report what I find on Monday.

What year? I have Pontiac Service Manuals for 1968 thru 78 or so... Should tell
what is what...
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 15:41:00 -0300
Subject: Real cars and models 

>From Sunday 6/2 Chicago Tribune,

'69 442 conv, red w/white int. & top.  Complete mech. and cosmetic 
restoration.  Buckets, console, AT, 400 V8. $14,500 847-438-0018

'57 2dr, original, 3spd column, J-2 tripower, solid.  $3775
847-823-0808 (dlr?)

'64 88 conv.  AC.  Solid southern car, drives great.  $3850.
847-823-0808 (dlr?)

'69 98 LS.  mint cond., garage kept. 67K miles.  $3500 obo.
312-935-2798 leave msg.

'61 Dynamic 88 4dr, hardtop, ps, pb, nice car $4100 obo. 312-805-8451


>From Evers Toy Store:
at www.marketplaza.com/shop/evers.html  or 800-962-9481

ERTL die-cast 1:18 scale "American Muscle Collection"
'69 H/O White & Gold               $23.00    #7260
'69 W-30 Black w/White stripes     $23.00    #8113
other brands also available :)

AMT 1:25 plastic models:
'69 442 Red w/Black hood stripes   $7.30     #8232

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    "Oldsmobile - powerful roadsters with big V8s"
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 19:53:34 -0300
Subject: Re: Real cars and models

Thanks for reminding me, David.

Anybody ever run across Toronado models? (66/67 in particular)  It'd be a 
lot easier to experiment with flames on a model rather than the real car.


The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 16:32:53 -0300
Subject: degreeing

On degreeing in a cam...

Mondello's catalog says to establish TDC via positive-stop method:
[paraphrased] Bring crank up aganist the stop one way, and mark the degree
wheel, then rotate the other way to the stop, halfway in between is true TDC.

True enough, but I don't think MARKING the $20 degree wheel is a good idea.
Here's what I do:

Turn crank ccw to piston stop, loosen DW attachment, set it to 0, lightly snug
it [don't turn crank while snugging]. Turn crank cw to the stop, note reading.
Example: 22 degrees...

True TDC is halfway between 0 and here, or 11.5 degrees in the example. Loosen
degree wheel attachment, move DW such that the pointer is about 1-2 degrees CW
of true TDC [example: 11.5+2=13.5] the reason for the discrepancy: as you
tighten that last little bit, the DW will try to turn also- fine, let it, and
when the pointer just gets to exactly 11.5, stop, call it perfect.

If you last turned the crank CW, then it will not be able to rotate more as you
tighten the DW clamp bolt... and your TDC mark will be accurate.

 As a check, you can then turn it back CCW and see that it also stops at 11.5
degrees on the other side of TDC.
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 15:50:38 -0300
Subject: Re: Real cars and models 

>'57 2dr, original, 3spd column, J-2 tripower, solid.  $3775
>847-823-0808 (dlr?)
>
>'64 88 conv.  AC.  Solid southern car, drives great.  $3850.
>847-823-0808 (dlr?)

Nope; private seller. I have a name and address here, courtesy
of Ameritech; email me for it if interested... (no, I don't
know the guy...)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 09:42:04 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: What *is* this thing?? 

     Yup, it's siliconed to the bottom of the air cleaner, around the top 
     of the carb.  You can see the line of blue silicone around the edges, 
     a nice perfectly straight and clean line too, like it was factory.  It 
     can't be there to catch any sucked in oil.  The only place oil could 
     possibly come from (which it isn't) would be the PCV system, which has 
     it's own filter on the rocker cover connected by a hose to the side of 
     the air cleaner, and the air should flow _from_ the air cleaner _to_ 
     that anyways (and then through the crankcase, then PCV valve, then 
     straight into the carb).  Besides, if oil somehow came in through 
     there, it'd hit the air filter first.
     
     After I sent that, something popped into my mind; could it be an air 
     silencer?  If anyone has experience with this, is there a performance 
     gain to be expected by removing it?  How do I remove it w/o damaging 
     the air cleaner?

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: What *is* this thing??
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    6/7/96 11:42 AM

Are you sure its siliconed to your air cleaner, and not clipped on, and hooked 
up to a hose to your PCV valve?  It sure sounds like the bit o' mesh to catch 
the oil before it gets sucked into your intake...
     
Tim Churchill

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 17:29:43 -0300
Subject: Re: Radiators 

In a message dated 96-06-07 10:31:57 EDT, you write:

>  It appears that if you ordered the 3.91 gear set, you got the 4 core,
which
>
>also requires larger mounting brackets, which are welded to the core
support.
>
>

You can mount a 4 core in 3 core brackets by merely bending the front portion
of the "U" shaped pieces of the core support flat. This approximates the
factory installation.  Look in any of the resotration catalogs and you will
see that there is no difference between the 3 and 4 core support insulators.

 67's came with a 3 core as the largest radiator, even with 3.90:1 and no
shroud or clutch fan (reserved for A/C cars).  I had trouble controlling
coolant temperature for many years before finally giving up and putting a 4
core plus a shroud and "tight" fitting fan. This has solved all my cooling
problems. I can drive the car anywhere, idle forever, etc.  Right now it has
a 4.10 rear, headers, long duration cam, etc.  No cooling problems anymore.
Even in FL summer heat the temerature gauge never goes above 200-210 and that
only after a long time idling in Drive. 

Try my prescription of 4-core, shroud and biggest possible fan.  It works. I
use a stainless steel "flex" fan, others recommend a factory type fan and
viscous drive.  Either way it is essential that there be an adequate flow of
air across the radiator, particularly at slow speeds or when stopped.

Bob Handren

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 18:37:14 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: '68 442: got it! 

> The real thing for 1968-74 have centers with 4 screws holding them to the 
wheel. 

        The early SS II wheel centers have FIVE screws, one between each 
        of the five wheel vents.  Be careful when having tires mounted.  
        The gorilla operating the tire machine will be tempted to pry 
        this center out from the front, assuming that it is the snap-in 
        style.  I now make sure that I remove the centers before going 
        to the tire store.
        
        Joe Padavano
        jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
        
        66 442
        68 W-30
        69 H/O
        70 W-30

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 18:39:01 -0300
Subject: Re: My 1978 Olds 442 

          
Also, I'm considering replacing the original 260 V8 that's in the car with a 
350, or other 
larger engine.  Any suggestions?
          
          I hate to sound like a broken record, but.....455 painted 
          corporate blue.
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30
          
          

------------------------------

From: J.Easton@zds.com (Jeff Easton)
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 15:27:13 -0300
Subject: Fake's

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>

>> real 442 (unless somebody faked the VIN).  I have never heard of a "bogus"
>> oldsmobile, but have seen it a lot in the Ch*vy world.  In fact, a lot of 

>I have.. a recent visitor was quite proud that he had concocted a 1972 "W30"
>that was so complete and correct that it had fooled all the judges. So... OK,
>if the judges call it a 'correct W30' isn't that good enough? Real enough?

  Wasnt the W-30 engine called out in the VIN for 1972?  If I remember the 
books correctly, in '72 the 442 went back to option status, so no seperate 
body designation.  However, they started putting engine ID into the VIN, so the 
W-30 motor had a different digit.

- -Jeff Easton
Zenith Data Systems

1970 442 4-speed

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 13:07:22 -0300
Subject: Re: more and more '68ness

Timothy A. Churchill wrote:
> 
> > From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
> 
> >
> 
>  And perhaps the plural of Le Mans is Le Mans' ?
> 
> ...or is it Le *Mens*? :)
> 
> Tim Churchill
> -------------
> 

I believe you must mean LeMan (singular) & LeMen (plural).

Bill Culp

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 18:14:27 -0300
Subject: RE: misc's

But, of course! How do you reckon I established TDC on the degree wheel, If there's another way, I'd like to hear about it... 

Well there is the piston stop method for TDC and you'd be surprised at how many people just eyeball the piston distance to TDC.

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 18:19:06 -0300
Subject: RE: degreeing

I usually just set my dial indicator on the piston and find TDC with =
this, then set my pointer to 0 deg. on the wheel. Turning 0.50" back and =
forth will verify, I just find this is quicker and more accurate because =
as you said tightening the wheel sometimes misaligns your mark.

- ----------
From: 	Chris Brown Witt[SMTP:wittchri@pilot.msu.edu]
Sent: 	Friday, June 07, 1996 3:32 PM
To: 	wittchri@pilot.msu.edu; oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	degreeing

On degreeing in a cam...

Mondello's catalog says to establish TDC via positive-stop method:
[paraphrased] Bring crank up aganist the stop one way, and mark the =
degree
wheel, then rotate the other way to the stop, halfway in between is true =
TDC.

True enough, but I don't think MARKING the $20 degree wheel is a good =
idea.
Here's what I do:

Turn crank ccw to piston stop, loosen DW attachment, set it to 0, =
lightly snug
it [don't turn crank while snugging]. Turn crank cw to the stop, note =
reading.
Example: 22 degrees...

True TDC is halfway between 0 and here, or 11.5 degrees in the example. =
Loosen
degree wheel attachment, move DW such that the pointer is about 1-2 =
degrees CW
of true TDC [example: 11.5+2=3D13.5] the reason for the discrepancy: as =
you
tighten that last little bit, the DW will try to turn also- fine, let =
it, and
when the pointer just gets to exactly 11.5, stop, call it perfect.

If you last turned the crank CW, then it will not be able to rotate more =
as you
tighten the DW clamp bolt... and your TDC mark will be accurate.

 As a check, you can then turn it back CCW and see that it also stops at =
11.5
degrees on the other side of TDC.
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 13:27:38 -0300
Subject: Re: My Mind is Going -- Sorry Pat!

Timothy A. Churchill wrote:
> 
> The last word on the Tempest thing-ie, I promise :)
> 
> My mind has more than a few cobwebs these days, I remember what the name-plates
> for all of the Full size Pontiacs are now...
> 
> Tempest, of course, was not one of them; but *Ventura* was.
> 
> 
> 
> Tim Churchill
> -------------
> Tim:

It's possible that you were thinking of the engines called "Tempest" in 
the late 50's & early 60's for those foreign cars.  My 63 has an engine 
by that name.

Bill Culp

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 19:08:24 -0300
Subject: Re: Fake's 

In a message dated 96-06-07 16:45:13 EDT, you write:

> Wasnt the W-30 engine called out in the VIN for 1972?  If I remember the 
>books correctly, in '72 the 442 went back to option status, so no seperate 
>body designation.  However, they started putting engine ID into the VIN, so
>the 
>W-30 motor had a different digit.

You got it backwards Jeff, the engine, tranny and a couple of other place
(reported as theft deterrents) reflected the VIN, not the other way around.

Anyone can buy the tape with the two letter code for any engine.  There is a
number on the oil filler neck but the information I believe I remember from
the Olds service manual states that this is a sequence number and does not
reflect the tyoe of engine, e.g. W-30.

Bob Handren

------------------------------

From: Nick DiGiovanni <ndigiova@direct.ca>
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 18:11:49 -0300
Subject: Re: misc's 

At 04:16 PM 6/7/96 -0300, you wrote:

>Careful.... 'No cowl tag' could be interpreted as meaning 'lack of a cowl
>tag'... I hope what you meant was that "the numbers found on a cowl tag from a
>68-9 442 will not identify that car as a factory W-car with certainty."  That
>would be correct. HOWEVER- it WILL positively ID an H/O, as that was the only
>Cutlass-body car to get the coveted Z-Z paint code, if I amnot mistaken.

>Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
>wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

Yes, that is what I should have typed.. "the numbers found on a cowl
tag....".  I believe you are correct that the Z-Z paint code does infact
denote a H/O.




Nick DiGiovanni
Port Coquitlam, B.C.
1970 4-4-2 - "Snarls Softly and Carries a Big Kick"

------------------------------

From: Nick DiGiovanni <ndigiova@direct.ca>
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 18:11:51 -0300
Subject: Re: Fake's 

At 03:27 PM 6/7/96 -0300, you wrote:

>  Wasnt the W-30 engine called out in the VIN for 1972?  If I remember the 
>books correctly, in '72 the 442 went back to option status, so no seperate 
>body designation.  However, they started putting engine ID into the VIN, so
the 
>W-30 motor had a different digit.
>
>-Jeff Easton
>Zenith Data Systems
>
>1970 442 4-speed
>
Thats correct.  The '72 W-30 had the letter 'X' in the VIN.  According to
Oldsmobile 4-4-2 & W-Machines "X designates 455ci W-30 option, the only year
a specific letter appeared in the VIN.  The 1972 model must have this letter
to be authentic.

Nick DiGiovanni
Port Coquitlam, B.C.
1970 4-4-2 - "Snarls Softly and Carries a Big Kick"

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 12:13:12 -0300
Subject: Re: degreeing 

     Uh, not that I've ever degreed a cam before, but isn't 11 halfway 
     between 0 and 22?  11.5 would be halfway between 1 and 22.
     
Just slap me upside the head if I'm being anal. . .

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: degreeing
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    6/7/96 1:12 PM

True TDC is halfway between 0 and here, or 11.5 degrees in the example. Loosen 
degree wheel attachment, move DW such that the pointer is about 1-2 degrees CW 
of true TDC [example: 11.5+2=13.5] the reason for the discrepancy: as you 
tighten that last little bit, the DW will try to turn also- fine, let it, and 
when the pointer just gets to exactly 11.5, stop, call it perfect.

------------------------------

From: Rocketeer <bparker@nmsu.edu>
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 19:52:09 -0300
Subject: Re: Fake's

> 
> You got it backwards Jeff, the engine, tranny and a couple of other place
> (reported as theft deterrents) reflected the VIN, not the other way around.
> 
> Anyone can buy the tape with the two letter code for any engine.  There is a
> number on the oil filler neck but the information I believe I remember from
> the Olds service manual states that this is a sequence number and does not
> reflect the tyoe of engine, e.g. W-30.
> 

The pre '68 cars have a "V" as the first character in the engine sequence 
number reflecting a 4-4-2, and was stamped into the heads. After '68 the 
number was stamped on the oil filler tube with the first digit representing 
the year, but no specific callout for a 4-4-2 engine. My guess is the change 
from option status to seperate model brought this about.

When I first got the '70 4-4-2 ragtop, I was dissappointed to see the 
original oil filler tube was missing (the replacements have no numbers 
stamped into them).

Turns out the master mechanic who put three different type of pulleys and
a Che*y power steering pump and hardware on the engine installed the tube 
in backwards. Under some old paint was the 0##### number stamped into the 
tube. It has nothing in common with the abbreviated VIN that is stamped into
the engine and trans.

Boyd

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 21:23:50 -0300
Subject: Re: Real cars and models 

In a message dated 96-06-07 15:59:54 EDT, you write:

Mike F writes:

>Anybody ever run across Toronado models? (66/67 in particular) 

I too would be interested. They were all over when I was a kid. Now that I'm
an older kid, I can't find them!

Greg K.

------------------------------

From: Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 23:51:45 -0300
Subject: Re: 83/84 H/O Parts WANTED

>Let me know if you find a source for (more than one) of those shifter
>plates - dimwit previous owner torqued mine down *way* too tight :-(


I can relate to dim-witted previous owners... all the light switches in 
my house say "NO"!


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Michael R. Hall                                  Ortonville, Michigan
E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com
The Stable:    
     1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
     1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...
         Brought to you by a Apple Power Macintosh 7100/80
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

------------------------------

From: Dan Williams <dr_olds@kfmw.net>
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 16:19:58 -0300
Subject: Re: Chrome Wheels

BRAD.NICHOLSON@s3abac8.ssa.gov wrote:
> 
>      The wheels that I have been following the thread on are factory stock
>      chrome wheels that where offered I think from 1985 through the end in
>      1988.  I have chased ads stating 5 spoke chrome Olds wheeels for the
>      last couple of years looking for the elusive Super Stock III Chrome
>      15" wheels that are rusting on my '87 442.  Every time I asked if the
>      center of the spokes were painted black. Every time they where.  This
>      is the easiest tip off that they are 14" as the 15" SS III's have
>      silver w/ a red pin stripe aropund the rim for the '83-4 H/O's and
>      gold w/ a gold pin stripe for the '85-87 442's

My all chrome 15x7 SSIII's have no strip around the rim and have 1/2 of the spoke 
painted black.  I have never seen another set like them.

> 
>      The '78 or '79 {can't remeber the years} H/O had 5 spoke 14" aluminum
>      wheels that I think are very pretty for thodse bodies.  It was also
>      used as an option I think on the '80 442.  I even them in a dealer's
>      brochure for the early 80's Calais/Salon as an option.  The last Olds
>      aluminum wheel that I can remember for the Cutlass was a web design
>      similar to BBS wheels but a smaller webbing and more rim in the center
>      section. These where also 14" rims.
> 

The 79 H/O has those aluminum wheels.  The only difference between the H/O wheels and 
the ones offered on the Calais is the gold paint on the rim for the H/O.  I have three 
of the H/O wheels with center caps if anybody is looking for some.

On a completely different note I have a few things to complain about.  Where is my 
JWO?  Everybody else got theirs.  Also, I haven't received my Classic Auto Restorer 
with the Olds on it yet (probably won't now).  Also, my friendly ISP has been loosing 
some of my mail.  I didn't get any mail from the list on Thurs.  I'm sure there was at 
least one message.  All I got for Friday was 32. They also have some bad modems in 
their pool and it is hard to get the damn things to pickup.  I tried to tell them 
about this stuff, but they don't seem to belive me.  I better shop around for a new 
provider.

Ok, now I feel a little better.

- -Dan

------------------------------

From: "C. K. Yee" <yu135008@yorku.ca>
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 23:07:13 -0300
Subject: Re: '84 Cutlass V-6

> I think if you look at the emissions/tuneup sticker on the core support
> you'll find the idle listed as a preposterous 2200 rpm. It sounds like
> hell if you really dial it up that high. Perhaps somebody, in a fit of
> common sense, backed it down to something reasonable, but then the idle
> in drive is _so_ low that the pressure falls and the light comes on.

The 2200 rpm figure is probably the fast idle rpm setting for the choke.  
Most engines should be able to make do with something a bit lower.  The 
fast idle setting has no effect on the warm idle speed (choke off).

Kevin Wong

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 00:27:32 -0300
Subject: Re: FWD, RWD, left foot braking (long posting)... 

In a message dated 96-06-06 13:51:41 EDT, you write:

>To put it mildly, Greg K., left foot braking is bad!  Racing school
>drivers are taught to double-clutch and use heel-and-toe downshifting. 

Meyer,

Nice post! Thanks for the taking the time to try and clear things up.

I agree with you relative to racing and stick shift. However, for my purposes
(daily driving a monster with an automatic), I feel I have to stick my guns
here. I have aboslute control of the car with left foot braking. I have never
had any coordination problems by doing so, I don't ride the brake, or
increase the idle at a stop. Perhaps I have mastered it to greater degree
than others. Of course, I'm not entering a turn at 100 mph and being clocked
either. If I was under race conditions, perhaps I would change my way of
driving. But for tooling around town and driving on the super slab, left
footing the binders works well. 

>In addition, Greg K., professional road rallyists use the emergency
>brake for hairpin turns.  Rather than brake and take an apex on roads with
>poor traction, they prefer to oversteer the car by pulling up on the
>emergency brake and then mashing the accelerator pedal.  I heartily admit
one
>should never do this on a street!

I agree here too. I would imagine that in car set up for road rallying that
the emergency brake would be a bit customized for that purpose (positioning,
release ect.) Fumbling around for the E-brake and the having to reach down
(and I mean way down in a Toronado) for the release handle is a bit much to
ask in a panic situation. In fact, I can't remember the last time I EVER used
it!. I remember when we were young and we blew by a cop going faster than we
should have maybe been going, I would use the E-brake so he wouldn't see
brake lights go on.  It also came in handy when you wanted to come in under
stealth conditions in the dark when you had the lights off. Ahhhhh, memories
of parking on Lovers Lane...............

>I'm not trying to flame anybody

Never took it as such. We all have opinions. I keep an open mind anyway. I
never said I knew it all.....just most of it!  (:

Greg K (the left footed braking guy)

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 18:12:16 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Chrome Wheels 

     I only got my JWO yesterday, so yours still might be a-coming.
     
     I have some 15x7 SSIII wheels off of a white '81(?) Salon.  They're 
     painted all white, but aside from the finish they appear to be the 
     exact same wheel as the late H/O's and 442's.  Does anyone know why I 
     couldn't have these chrome plated for use on a H/O or 442?  Is there 
     any noticeable difference besides stamping numbers?
     
     For those of you out there needing wheels, getting a set like this and 
     having them stripped and chrome plated might be a lot cheaper than 
     paying through the nose for an NOS set.  As long as you don't mind 
     that it isn't original, it just looks that way.
     
     Tom L.

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Chrome Wheels
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    6/7/96 7:12 PM


>      last couple of years looking for the elusive Super Stock III Chrome
>      15" wheels that are rusting on my '87 442.  Every time I asked if the 
>      center of the spokes were painted black. Every time they where.  This 
>      is the easiest tip off that they are 14" as the 15" SS III's have
>      silver w/ a red pin stripe aropund the rim for the '83-4 H/O's and 
>      gold w/ a gold pin stripe for the '85-87 442's
     
My all chrome 15x7 SSIII's have no strip around the rim and have 1/2 of the 
spoke
     
painted black.  I have never seen another set like them.
     
On a completely different note I have a few things to complain about.  Where is 
m y 
     JWO?

------------------------------

From: ngomez@iadfw.net (Nick Gomez)
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 00:46:19 -0300
Subject: FWD: Verify: Is there such an engine as an Oldsmobile Golden Anniversary Edition that's painted all gold?

>From: usd666@interramp.com (nor gate)
>Newsgroups: rec.autos.tech
>Subject: Verify: Is there such an engine as an Oldsmobile Golden Anniversary  
 Edition that's painted all gold?
>Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 05:30:32 GMT
>
>>It  is a Rocket 350 with a 2-bbl carb.  I would appreciate any info on
>>performance specs that anyone could provide.

I don't think so, maybe you gurus can help this guy out! Take it easy...
BeaTniK

------------------------------

From: Dan Birnell <dbirnell@netusa1.net>
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 15:04:37 -0300
Subject: Re: My trip, plus Aurora info

Mike Coccagna wrote:
> 
> > >>7. Four wheel drive, limited slip front and rear
> > >    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > >   this is known as All wheel drive...the Bravada didnt even get
> [snip]
> > I have a 4x4 Jimmy with limited slip front and rear and it is not
> > called All wheel drive in my manual.  As far as I know (someone
> 
> Regarding the Bravada's All wheel drive (known as Smart-trak), it's
> an Olds exclusive.  Guess you could've spent the price premium for
> the Olds and gotten it, hunh?
> 
> Mike
> '91 W-40 Quad442
Smart trak is the combo of all wheel drive, ABS and locking rear 
differential, and is available on chevy & GMC.  It is just not called 
smart trak.


Dan

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #198
********************************

