
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

oldsmobile-digest          Monday, 18 March 1996       Volume 01 : Number 122


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From: edison3@cpeq.com (Mike Frederick)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 17:36:36 -0400
Subject: THIS JUST IN!

>From the Edison3 Newsroom in Tampa:

                OLDS 1955 Holiday 98, 4 dr,
                htop, ps, pb, pw, ac, auto trans,
                $750 obo. (813) 238-6042 9-5 (est)

?????



Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Inc.
Tampa, Florida
813.210.8649

------------------------------

From: ggreen@ftn.net (Gary Green)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 18:42:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Toronado Xperts: Seen any XSR's?

>In "The Complete History of General Motors, 1908-1986", there is a picture of
>a 1977 Toronado XSR; what is unusual about this model is the *huge*
>wraparound rear window, like the 1950's Studebaker.
>
>Has anyone ever seen this model Toronado? Was this rear-window only available
>on this model, and in 1977, or was this model offered in other years or on
>other models?

Just returned from holidays and had 586 postings to catch up on.  Noticed
several references to the 77 Toronado XSR.  I discovered this model in a
brochure some time ago, and would like to have a look at one up close some
time.  It is certainly a good looking model.

I have not seen a 77 XSR on the road, however I do have a 77 Olds brochure
with 2 pages devoted to this model.  I quote from the brochure " A new
panoramic rear window wraps around to form the rear windows in one sweep of
glass.  Twin reflective-glass panels form skylights in the roof; at the
touch of a button they slide inboard, creating the open air feeling of a
convertible.  Roof panels store over one another in the centre T-bar when
open."

There is a large picture of a silver XSR with the roof open, and several
smaller pictures of the wrap-around rear window, interior, and sliding roof.
If I get access to a scanner some time, will scan them for anyone interested.

Gary Green
Ottawa

------------------------------

From: gludlam@bcinet.net (Gregg Ludlam)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 20:56:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Radio question

>I have a 69 old Cutlass Supreme with a Am Deluxe radio. I would
>like to know if any one can tell me if oldmobile put any other type
>of radio in the Supreme style. I believe that Olds had a plain fm
>radio along with a AM-FM Stereo version but I do not know if
>they put in the Cutlasses. If any one could help me I would appreciate
>it                                                          Thanks
>                                                                  Chuck
>Lobrano
>
>To the best of my knowledge, only the Canadian models distributed in
>eastern and central canada had an am-fm optional radio.  None of the
>U.S. models to my knowledge had this option.  This is mainly due to
>the U.S. not supporting fm radio back in 1969.  Neither did western
>Canada.  There was no fm only radio as am was 99% of the market back
>then and it would never have sold, that's why the fm-am option.  If
>you are considering this option, try the old wrecking yards in
>Ontario, or gut the interior and add in a modern internals.   Alex

I kindof find it hard to believe that a U.S.- ordered Cutlass couldn't be
had with an AM-FM mono radio.  I had a '69 Skylark ragtop with one (a sister
GM A-body) and even my '67 Toro has an AM-FM Wonderbar mono radio.  Any '69
Cutlass guru's out there?


- -Gregg, the '67 Toro guy

------------------------------

From: gludlam@bcinet.net (Gregg Ludlam)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 20:59:22 -0400
Subject: Re: '86 Salon ---> 442 (was Re: Transmission Question)

>>Along the lines of finding a 442 or H/O (mid 80's) for the 307, I noticed a
>>national ad for GM-Goodwrench replacement engines.  The ad listed long
>>blocks for both the 307 and 307-roller motors, and for under $2K as I
>>recall.  Pricey, yes - but the come with a 5 year/50K mile warranty
>>according to the ad.  The same ad also listed 403's as well...
>
>Where did you see this ad? Is there a price list for these replacement
>motors? Or would any GM dealer have them available?
>
>Did it mention whether they were remanufactured, and if so, which parts were
>used? Are they available in short blocks as well?

I saw it in a local edition of the Auto Trader here in NC...it was a
national ad being used by a local Chevy (oops, sorry - there's that *WORD*
again...) dealer as part of their ad.  I would guess your local friendly
GM-Goodwrench delaer would be able to help you out.  Yes, the 307s were
listed as "remanufactured".


- -Gregg, the '67 Toro guy

------------------------------

From: gludlam@bcinet.net (Gregg Ludlam)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 21:05:54 -0400
Subject: Re: 90 olds trofeo(toronado)

>>From: RBoudreau@gnn.com (Robert  Boudreau)
>>To: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu
>>Subject: 90 olds trofeo(toronado)
>>
>>I am looking for front end parts for my car.  I was wondering if you
>>knew where to search?
>>
>>
>
>     Can anyone light the way?

For a '90 Trofeo?  I would think your local friendly GM dealer could get
that stuff with great ease...it's only 6 years old, right?


- -Gregg, the '67 Toro guy

------------------------------

From: gludlam@bcinet.net (Gregg Ludlam)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 21:20:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Your Carb is $$$$$

>	Also, didn't get a single response on my question of causes and fixes
>of a rich running carb. Whats' the matter guys, my breath stink or
something? ;)

Damn, shamed into a reply...

How about a float that's taken on fuel?  The float becomes heavy, and as the
fuel floods into the bowl, it doesn't lift the float up, allowing a
continuous flow of fuel into the carb.  Voila, you're running $$$$.  That's
rich for those of you without a strange sense of humor!  BTW, get a brass
float if you can find one.


- -Gregg, the '67 Toro guy

------------------------------

From: gludlam@bcinet.net (Gregg Ludlam)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 21:26:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds' for sale in CT/NY area

>* 1968 Toronado, 455, auto, every available option, straight rust-free body,
>call for information (201) 779-1563 Gus (hmmm. good source for those C-heads
>to put on your mid-80's 442, huh? someone wanted a power antenna switch for a
>Toro too, didn't they? Sounds like a perfect candidate for parting... ;)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Man, you gotta stop giving
people ideas like that...I have enough trouble trying to find parts!


- -Gregg, the '67 Toro guy

------------------------------

From: ngomez@iadfw.net (Nick Gomez)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 20:35:41 -0400
Subject: 1965 Wheel Covers

I picked up a couple of 1965 National Geographic magazines today, one had a
98 (like mine, except the magazine one had a vinyl top) and the other had a
Vista Cruiser wagon with a 'Vista Roof'. Anyway, the wagon had these cool
wheel covers...they were wire type (like a Cadillac) with spinners. I've
got the vented type, I'm happy, just making conversation...laterz!
BeaTniK

     ------------------------------------------------------------------
     1965 Oldsmobile 98 Town Sedan   TIP # 1048   I Trade Live Concerts
     Always Buying Nirvana Items   MiSTie # 53344       Keep On Skankin
     ------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: "Alex Holland" <hollanda@cia.com>
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 22:50:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Radio question

I hate this question.. It just keeps on comming around.  anyhow, I
looked up the dealer order sheets for 1969 cutlasses and found four
options available for music, AM only, two types of AM-Fm, and an
8-track player.  The 8-track player supposidly had to be ordered with
a radio according to the dealer order sheets.  I sort of screwwed up
in my wording, I had meant to say the FM only radio was never an
option from G.M.  p.s. AM-fm was available back as far as 1965
according to the dealer order sheets.  Hope this clears things up.

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 06:27:00 -0400
Subject: Re: 90 olds trofeo(toronado)

>>>From: RBoudreau@gnn.com (Robert  Boudreau)
>>>To: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu
>>>Subject: 90 olds trofeo(toronado)
>>>
>>>I am looking for front end parts for my car.  I was wondering if you
>>>knew where to search?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>     Can anyone light the way?
>
>For a '90 Trofeo?  I would think your local friendly GM dealer could get
>that stuff with great ease...it's only 6 years old, right?

     Not sure exactly what he's after, I imagine he's looking to satisfy a
budget.  I can't seem to get any E-Mail to him, the messages keep getting
rejected, but someday, he'll get one, and I'll point this list out to him
(strength in numbers...)


      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://www.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 06:28:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds' for sale in CT/NY area

>>* 1968 Toronado, 455, auto, every available option, straight rust-free body,
>>call for information (201) 779-1563 Gus (hmmm. good source for those C-heads
>>to put on your mid-80's 442, huh? someone wanted a power antenna switch for
a >>Toro too, didn't they? Sounds like a perfect candidate for parting... ;) >
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >Man, you gotta stop giving
people ideas like that...I have enough trouble >trying to find parts!

 -----Loaded, straight, AND rust free?  I'm not too sure about that
~parting~ idea!  :o


      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://www.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 06:28:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Your Carb is $$$$$

>>	Also, didn't get a single response on my question of causes and fixes
>>of a rich running carb. Whats' the matter guys, my breath stink or
>something? ;)
>
>Damn, shamed into a reply...
>
>How about a float that's taken on fuel?  The float becomes heavy, and as the
>fuel floods into the bowl, it doesn't lift the float up, allowing a
>continuous flow of fuel into the carb.  Voila, you're running $$$$.
     Also, the QuadraJet was notorious for leaking through the main metering
well plugs.  The carb would perform well until you shut it off.  Then it
would seep fuel overnight and flood out eventually.  I had one that caused
me great heartache...  Running a higher (8~9 psi) Holley fuel pump with the
stock QJ and an el-cheapo pressure regulator.  The gas would seep into the
intake overnight through the well plugs, and the residual pressure from the
regulator kept refilling the float boal.  Left 'er off for three days and
ended up flooding the hell out of it!  It was about 40 below at that time
(Of course!!! @#$%@!) so the poor car sat dead for a month!  There was gas
1/4" deep sitting on the floor of the intake!  Finally warmed up, so I threw
my Holley Firestarter on there and started right up!  Didn't even have to
change plugs!  Ya gotta love that! (ran a bit rough for a while, but...!

     The cure for this problem is supplied with almost (?) all carb kits,
it's a small sponge that sits between the throttle body and main fuel bowl
body, to absorb the leaking fuel.  Cheezy, but it works.

     Another problem I've seen (OK, Had!) With the QJ and my high (kinda
high...) pressure fuel pump was the tendancy for the pressure to blow the
needle out of the seat in the float assembly.  At first, I didn't know what
the Hell was happening, I'd get to a stop light, idle for half a minute or
so, and then end up pushing the car off the street 'cuz it just flooded out
so bad!  Figured it out after watching it idle, then saw fuel come rising
out of the vent tube!  Stuck that cheezy pressure regulator (actually a
variable restriction) in there, and it's been healthy for about three years.
I pulled it out for the Holley Firestarter install, and haven't had those
problems yet.

     Other rich seeming problems could be a plugged breather filter or a
ruptured vacuum modulator (sucking in oil, not really rich, but occasionally
confused...  Both extreme cases, but happen...)  Stuck choke, plugged air
bleeds in the carb, clogged air cleaner, drastic changes in altitude
(Grasping here, I'd imagine REALLY drastic!) faulty carbon canister system
(purging incorrectly) sticking or malfunctioning accellerator pump, blown
out power valves (On Holleys, as I recall) are some other cases that could
cause a rich condition.  It would help to know ~when~ and ~where~ it's rich.
(don't remember the original posting offhand)  This could help isolate the
choke, idle, off-idle, main metering, power, or enrichment systems in the
carb, or isolate the carb completely.

     Brings to mind a story related by an instructor at Northern here.  He'd
bought a car (don't remember what it was) and it had this bizzare;
intermittent stalling condition.  It would run great, then for no reason,
almost die, like it was running on four cylinders.  He'd shut the car off,
start it back up and it was fine again.  Soon enough, it would happen again,
same thing.  Finally got up the nerve to yank the carb apart, and found a
grasshopper wing inside the float bowl.  Every so often, it would randomly
get sucked down over one of the jets, and wipe out four cylinders!  Shut off
the motor (and the vacuum) and the wing would float back up to the top.
Pretty soon, it'd drop back down, and get a jet again, maybe this time
killing the other four cylinders.  How's that for off the wall!!!?

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://www.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 06:28:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Radio question

     Kindof off subject here a bit, but maybe not.  A guy I'd worked with
here for a while has a '71 (I think) Firebird, Twin Turbo 455.  Supposedly
the one Motor Trend did a buildup on in the early 70's or something.
Estimated around 700+HP... (according to benchracing statistics) Interior
and all basically original and immaculate.  In process of restoring it all,
and had the turbos sent off to be renewed, lost his job before he got 'em
back, so I never heard it run.  (Don't know if it ever did, either!)
     Anyway, it had a factory Am (And FM, if I remember right) in the dash,
and a cassette player in the console BEHIND the seats!  You turn around and
put the tape in there!  Looked really corny, but back then I imagine it
musta been the neatest thing since sliced bread!  At any rate, I'm sure it
is a fairly rare option, and the car must be worth quite a bit.  I'm hoping
to see it running around somewhere for a grudge match, cuz a certain Buick
and Oldsmobile would both like to have it in the mirror; tape deck and all!

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://www.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 06:55:00 -0400
Subject: Vehicle Speed Sensor

     OK, all.  Here's a real juicy, technical question to get people
wonderring.  What is the fundamental communications difference between the
early 80's CCC Speed sensor signal and the newer 90's speed signal?  The
theory of 4000 ground pulses per mile comes to mind but I'm not sure from
what!
     Here's the problem:  I'm putting a Head-Up display in the Rockit, and
cannot get the VSS to communicate with the HUD.  I'm not using the car's
computer any longer, but I hooked it up for the test.  I assume I'll have to
fabricate a new buffer/amplifier circuit for it, but I'm not sure offhand
what I'm changing from.  I'll do my share of reasearch on it, but if anyone
else has any instant thoughts on the matter, I'm open to hear them.
     (P.S...  Had it hooked up and running on the dash.  THERE IS NONE
COOLER!!!  I am getting excited!)

      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://www.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: eda@dl.tc.faa.gov
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 17:31:33 -0400
Subject: hey!!!!

Andy Green spaketh thusly:
>too,  'Cause it was that same Dirty Atlantic City Ocean water green color.

Hey!!!  That's dirty Philly-Camden Delaware River green-brown to us South
Jersey folk; the shore is *much* better these days! :-p

Ed Atlee			'77 Cutlass Supreme
eda@dl.tc.faa.gov		'84 Hurst/Olds
	R O C K E T	P O W E R E D ! !

------------------------------

From: eda@dl.tc.faa.gov
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 18:27:20 -0400
Subject: Doc Watson

Some tidbits form the 9/94 MuscleCars magazine, part 2 of the Doc Watson
interview...unfortunately the article is cut off just when they ask him "How
tweaked was the first Hurst/Olds", meaning '68 #1, then it says continued on
page such and such, but it's not!!  I went all the way through it, stopping of
course at the "Alternative Muscle" section which had a very nice, informative
article on the 76-77 442 (I'm a real sucker for those 73-77 body styles, even
if they cut down the power a lot...they are sadly very hard to find around
here, it's been a couple years since I've seen anything but 76-77 Supremes,
and even they're getting scarce...can't remember the last S around here...oh,
there is the 76 or 77 Salon at a local lot for $3995...yeah, right, pal!

Anyway, sorry, I'm rambling...They talk about the Hairy Olds, first named "442
Much!".  They built it mainly because John Beltz was getting ripped about the
chain in the new Toro trannies, so to prove it would hold...they crashed the
first one a few times, finally for good, so built a second one in 67...that
one was the world's fastest funny car for a while running 8.40s @ 180 mph.

He talks about press cars, mentions throwing 425s in some Cutlasses (!),
..."we found that so many of the journalists who were great writers were
terrible drivers.  Where we would jump in a car and it would run 14.60 ETs in
showroom trim, they would be lucky to get out of the 16s.  So we'd give 'em  a
little more "suds"...I remember when Car and Driver asked me to be the
sanctioning body for their Super Car Showdown.  Every car there was bogus, but
God it was fun!"

...he mentions that the Pike's Peak car was a tube-chassis Toro, apparently
not the Toro-based Hairy Olds...here's a good one, back then Olds was known as
"Menopause Manor" by the GM Brass, it didn't know where it was...gee, sounds
like all of GM today.  At that time, though, he asserts that they had the best
engineering dept. and great workers in the assembly plants... anyway, he got
some photographers to take a bunch of pictures for a collage, put "Oldsmobile"
at the top and "Youngmobile" at the bottom....y'all know what's coming next,
don't you?

- ----> "one of the dumbest things that was ever done was the ad campaign of
"This is Not Your Father's Oldsmobile".  It won award after award.  It was a
terrible ad campaign.  You can't convince people to buy something by insulting
them.  People said, "Well, if this isn't good enough for my father, maybe I
don't want one".  >>>>Oldsmobile lost half a million units in sales.<<<<

WHY THE W's?
"John Beltz was in a meeting with me and called Bob Dorshimer to see what
prefix code numbers they had left.  He asjed if they were using W's for
anything.  He said, "I want W's for performance options, so that every time
I'm in a meeting getting my butt reamed for being over budget, I want to
remember that Watson did it to me."  What started out as a joke became a
reality."

Whew!!! I've tasken up enough space today; I'll throw out some interesting
tidbits on the 68 H/O next time.  My fingers hurt, and I don't have access to
a scanner right now...

Ed Atlee			'77 Cutlass Supreme
eda@dl.tc.faa.gov		'84 Hurst/Olds
	R O C K E T	P O W E R E D ! !

------------------------------

From: Sandy Stewart <WASTEWART@gov.pe.ca>
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 15:48:44 -0400
Subject: Spoilers -Reply

For what its worth, I heard (last night) from a friend in Ohio who is very
knowledgeable about Cutlasses that the quality of spoilers varies as
there is more than one manufacturer.  He claims that the ones from
Tamraz are better and cheaper than Year One's.

I might consider one for my 72 442.  They weren't available from the
factory that year, but were a dealer installed option.

Sandy Stewart

------------------------------

From: clark@sh28.dseg.ti.com (Pat Clark 952-3776)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 09:40:21 -0400
Subject: Rich carb

> ....Stuck choke, plugged air
> bleeds in the carb, clogged air cleaner, drastic changes in altitude
> (Grasping here, I'd imagine REALLY drastic!) faulty carbon canister system
> (purging incorrectly) sticking or malfunctioning accellerator pump, blown
> out power valves (On Holleys, as I recall) are some other cases that could
> cause a rich condition.  It would help to know ~when~ and ~where~ it's rich.
> (don't remember the original posting offhand)  This could help isolate the
> choke, idle, off-idle, main metering, power, or enrichment systems in the
> carb, or isolate the carb completely.
>
>       Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
>       Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
>       Havre, Montana 59501  | http://www.nmclites.edu/~buehner
>       "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
>       "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
>              (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)


Now this is more like it!

The carb itself is a brand new (never fiddled with the jets or rods) Edelbrock
600 cfm elec choke. The faulty carbon canister (the one at the fuel tank?) may
be the culprit, I don't have one! For some reason mine is gone. All that is
there is a short piece of rubber hose (unplugged). Could this really be having
an effect on the richness of the carb? When I bought the car it had the
original Qjet on it (still have it) and ran extremely rich then. The new carb
has also run rich since the day I put it on.



          ___              ___        _________
         /   |            /   |      /         \
        /    |           /    |     |   ___    |
       /     |          /     |     |__|   |   |
      /      |         /      |           /   /
     /       |        /       |          /   /
    /   /|   |       /   /|   |         /   /
   /   /_|   |__    /   /_|   |__      /   /
  |             |  |             |    /   /
  |______     __|  |______     __|   /   /_____
         |   |            |   |     |          |      Pat Clark
         |___|            |___|     |__________|       69 442


   "Just your average 300+hp garage hogging, gas sucking, money pit"

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 11:11:48 -0400
Subject: Re: hey!!!!

>Andy Green spaketh thusly:

Um, no he didn't.

>>too,  'Cause it was that same Dirty Atlantic City Ocean water green color.

That was somebody else (although I did agree with him somewhat ;-)

>Hey!!!  That's dirty Philly-Camden Delaware River green-brown to us South
>Jersey folk; the shore is *much* better these days!

Maybe it's full of that nice blue-green algae or something...  :-)
- --
Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Dan Dale <daleds@okra.millsaps.edu>
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 11:53:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Toronado Xperts: Seen any XSR's?

>
>>In "The Complete History of General Motors, 1908-1986", there is a picture
of >>a 1977 Toronado XSR; what is unusual about this model is the *huge*
>>wraparound rear window, like the 1950's Studebaker. >> >>Has anyone ever
seen this model Toronado? Was this rear-window only available >>on this model,
and in 1977, or was this model offered in other years or on >>other models? > >
>I have not seen a 77 XSR on the road,

I just saw a baby blue XSR being driven down the interstate by an old couple
doing about 70. The paint looked original, but it was somewhat faded.  This
was the first one I have ever seen on the road. I got their tag number and am
going to find out who they are and maybe see if it is for sale.

Dan Dale
'72 Cotner-Bevington Olds 98 Endloader

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$ Daniel Dale  daleds@okra.millsaps.edu f-list since 2/95 $
$ http://www.millsaps.edu/~daleds/index.html              $
$ cars:  1972 Cotner-Bevington Oldsmobile 98 Endloader,   $
$ 1973 Imperial LeBaron, 1966 Pontiac GTO, 1987 Chevrolet $
$ Camaro IROC-X 5.7 TPI, 1955 Cadillac Seville,           $
$ (2) 1969 Cadillac DeVille Convertible (one for parts),  $
$ 1976 Cadillac Series 75 Fleetwood Brougham,             $
$ 1961 Imperial Custom                                    $
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

------------------------------

From: "Dink" <heinle@jake.udayton.edu>
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 12:11:57 -0400
Subject: 80 sales brochure

Gramma was pretty nice to me, she gave me the original sales brochure
for my 80 Delta 88.  It had info on 88, 98, custom crusier, and
toro.  And the best part is that it had pictures of the Holiday
coupe, and toro XJS(i think).  They were pretty cool pics, but
like an idiot I left it home, so I can't scan them. The buckets in
the Delta look cool, but the shifter looked flimsy.  Well i just
thought it was cool after we were talking about them last week.

Dink
80 Delta 88 Royale

{
Dink           Dayton, Ohio
http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
Computer Information Systems Major @ UD
}

------------------------------

From: david.chontofalsky@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 11:58:53 -0400
Subject: Yoo-Hoo Rear End boys!

A question for the Rear End fellas......    :)
I have a Paddocks catalog and they show a reporduction aluminum high capacity
differential housing cover stamped with W-27.   The ad sez that it was a
dealer installed option and I was thinkin 'bout stickin one on my 74 H/O.  His
application sez 1970-1972; 10 and 12 bolt units.  What was the difference in
the 10/12 bolts of 1970-1972 than the 10/12 units in 1974?.  Can I still put a
new fanny cover on this old girl?   MAybe cool her gears a little  :) Has
anyone ordered anything from Paddocks?  If so, what  is their quality like??
David.Chontofalsky@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 13:49:33 -0400
Subject: Re: '89 Cutlass Stuff

Charley,
My '88 is like your friend's except for the 2.8L engine.  Plugs and air
filter are the cheaper.  I doubt he would want to replace that expensive
stainless exhaust system.  There's a chip company on the www - can't find
it among my bookmarks, should be easy to find.

With the tight firewall to engine clearance, changing plugs is a pain, so
Bosch Platinums or equivalent are in order for 50,000 to 100,000 miles
before needing to tilt the engine forward for replacement.

A less restrictive air filter might help.  2 stage Amsoil or K&N.  Higher
output cams shafts are available.

The EFI on these engines was later ('92?, 93?) upgraded to sequential instead
of bank or all fire.  170hp instead of 140.  I think the cr was also upped on
these engines.  I think a crank sensor and new computer was added, so it's
probably best to get the whole motor and computer.  Recently, I see they
added roller rockers.

Pontiac Gran Prix' had a turbo option for a few years starting in '88.  I
beleive 205hp was their rating.  I don't know about cr difference or engine
beefing.  My 2.8 is 8.5:1.  The heads on these motors are reported to be a
weak spot.  That turbo might not be a good thing.

David Brown
dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu    (312) 702-9157
"Oldsmobile - powerful roadsters with big V8s"
- ----------------------------
Hey, all.  I guess you could call this a new addition to the "family."  My
roommate just bought an '89 Cutlass Supreme SL.  Nice car.  It's got the
3.1L  (I think all those numbers are right--Past '87 they all kinda blend
together into a category called "too damned expensive for me!")  He's
curious, (and asked me to relay his curiousity...) has anyone else dealt
with this critter as for toys available for it?  Namely performance chips, I
guess.  He's also curious about center consoles.  The one it came with is
lacking that certain, umm, functionality.  It has a giant storage bin (that
doesn't fit a nice butt very well!) and a funky little coin holder that
would work much better for a bottle or something!  Is this the only console
these came with?  Anyone else had any other styles in theres?  (It's an auto
on the floor, for those interested...)
<snip>

      Charley Buehner         "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Havre, Montana          http://www.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"              '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"              '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: david.chontofalsky@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 14:38:53 -0400
Subject: Re: 80 sales brochure

Dink,
It was the shifter from a Cutlass Calais.  It just looks flimsy in a larger
car.
 Size is relative to proportion (sound like Dr. Ruth, ehh?)
David.chontofalsky@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu

Gramma was pretty nice to me, she gave me the original sales brochure
for my 80 Delta 88.  It had info on 88, 98, custom crusier, and
toro.  And the best part is that it had pictures of the Holiday
coupe, and toro XJS(i think).  They were pretty cool pics, but
like an idiot I left it home, so I can't scan them. The buckets in
the Delta look cool, but the shifter looked flimsy.  Well i just
thought it was cool after we were talking about them last week.

Dink
80 Delta 88 Royale

{
Dink           Dayton, Ohio
http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
Computer Information Systems Major @ UD
}

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 14:47:26 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Your Carb is $$$$$

Pat,
Sorry, nothing came to mind before.  Thanks people!

Leaking plugs on bottom of Qjet:
That sponge sounds cheesy, looks cheesy, maybe it is cheese? :)  Sorry!

To stop the leaking, clean off the plugs on the bottom of the carb, then put
some JB Weld all around them and their seems.

Float:
You could weight it - postal scale?  Being new it's probably not fuel logged.
 Check the old carb.  Somewhere I now remember a spec for fuel level.  It's
probably in your chassis manual or carb rebuild kit.

Pintle vavle:
This could be set wrong.  If set too light by the float this could cause the
rich condition.  Fuel level check to detect this also.

Fuel canister:
You won't have one in the engine compartment.  I beleive '71 was the first
year.

For the 'whatever it is' (vapor condensor?) by the tank, you could have mine
from my '70 (going to retrofit a '71 canister to it), but I want to hang on to
 it for a while.  I'll keep my eyes open.


I don't remember the original post, but when is it running rich?  Idle, off
idle, part throttle?

David Brown
dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu    (312) 702-9157
"Oldsmobile - powerful roadsters with big V8s"

------------------------------

From: "Brian Ashley" <BASHLEY@alexandria.lib.utah.edu>
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 14:00:36 -0400
Subject: RCPT: Re: Radio question

Confirmation of reading: your message -

    Date:    17 Mar 96 22:50
    To:      oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
    Subject: Re: Radio question

Was read at 12:00, 18 Mar 96.

------------------------------

From: John Schmich <schmich@AZStarNet.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 16:48:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Headers for 307 & pushrods

>Finally, Hedman lists an application for 78-87 442, 260-403 (also for 65-76
442 (guess you're SOL if you've got a 77, huh?)).  They don't list tube
diameters, but they go for $150, in any case.  These are probably the same
ones that Brandon mentioned yesterday:
>Well, that's what I found, let us know what happens, Brandon.  Does your
Salon have A.I.R.?
>Ed Atlee			'77 Cutlass Supreme
>eda@dl.tc.faa.gov		'84 Hurst/Olds
>	R O C K E T	P O W E R E D ! !
>
     Thanks Ed.  Yep those are the ones.  I picked them up yesterday and
theres not really much to say about them.  The just a normal header.  They
did come with all the emmisions stuff but I'm still gonna have to check what
size it reduces to.  BTW yes I do have the A.I.R.  Not sure exactly what it
is or does but I know I need it for the smog police.  I keep y'all posted
but minor delays have set us back a week? :(  :(  :(  :(
     Does anyone know if a pair of ?-78 260-403 pushrods will work in a 307?
See I went to the performance shop and Competion Cams dosen't make a set of
pushrods for the 307.  Crane cams does make a pair but there $80 and they
are specially made for Crane equipment, in which I have Comp stuff.  Anyway,
I took a stock 307 pushrod and measured it to see if the length was the same
as a Comp 350 set.  They were realitively the same length so I ordered them.
Finally I get them and they are a little bit shorter and a lot narrower.
I'm wondering if I got a different set (i.e. the C word) or is this normal
and will they work?  I haven't opened them so I can return em.  Thanks for
the help

Brandon

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 17:07:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Headers for 307 & pushrods

>They
>did come with all the emmisions stuff but I'm still gonna have to check what
>size it reduces to.  BTW yes I do have the A.I.R.  Not sure exactly what it
>is or does but I know I need it for the smog police.

Air Injection Reaction. Sets up a kind of "afterburning" effect by
injecting fresh air into the exhaust manifold and/or the catalytic
convertor to promote additional burning of residual fuel in the
exhaust stream. The gases exiting the cylinders are still hot enough
to burn if given additional oxygen, and squirting extra air into the
catalytic convertor keeps things chugging along happily down there, too.

Disconnecting the AIR pump (or breaking the belt if/when the pump seizes)
can result in poor convertor performance, possible clogging, and most
definitely a really smelly and polluting exhaust; its failure is one of
those things that gives beaters such a great fragrance when you're stuck
behind one in traffic. The AIR pump exerts little if any parasitic drag
on the engine, so disconnecting it really doesn't net you much, and I will
venture a guess that if the air supply to the exhaust manifold is cut off,
your oxygen sensor might start sending bad readings back to the ECM.
- --
Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 17:12:40 -0400
Subject: Q-Jet Leaks (was: Your Carb is $$$$$)

Leaking plugs on bottom of Qjet:

A better solution for the leaking plugs are aftermarket machined aluminum
plugs with o-rings.  These are available from the same vendors who make carb
rebuild kits.  These are installed by first grinding or filing off the spun
retainer on the bottom of the carb body.  A small hole is drilled in each of
the pressed-in factory plugs and a sheet metal screw turned in.  A vice-grip
pliers can then be used to extract the plug.  The replacements are simply
pressed in place after lubricating the o-rings.  A boss on the head of each
new plug bears against the throttle housing in the same location as that
cheesy sponge would have.  The difference is that these plugs will absolutly
never leak, while I'm afraid that the sponge will eventually relax or
deteriorate.  In addition, if the leak is in the spun part of the pot metal,
the sponge likely will not seal it.

Float:
You could weight it - postal scale?

They're cheap...buy a brass one.  The newer additives in gasoline are killers
on plastic floats.

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 18:22:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Your Carb is $$$$$

Re. the subject of rich carbs, I was wondering what exactly we're talking
about by "rich". When I got my first old car I was convinced it was
running rich because you could smell the exhaust, which was quite
fragrant as David has said. My Olds does the same thing. If we're
comparing the exhaust to present-day vehicles then there's got to be
quite a difference. Lower-energy coil and points ignition and inexact
fuel/air mixing by even the best carb (as compared to F.I.) must equal a
less efficient burn inside the cylinder and a richer exhaust. I know that
when mine is on the choke and warming up it'll spit a little black stuff
out the exhaust due to incomplete combustion. Probably they all did it
back then...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #122
******************************** 
