
oldsmobile-digest           Thursday, 9 May 1996        Volume 01 : Number 171


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 22:52:21 -0300
Subject: Re: Methods of painting headers 

At 13.56 05,08,96 -0300, you wrote:
>Eastwood has a "Stainless Steel" paint that I put on the exhaust manifolds of
>the SX over 5 years ago and they still look great.
>
>Never tried it on headers tho.
>

is it gloss, or flat?
               zack

>Bob Handren
>'67 W-30 Modified
>'70 SX Convertible
>
>
      ___
     /. .\
    _\_*_/_                     -<Buddha>-
   / /   \ \                   Buddha@itw.com
   \_\___/_/            HTTP://www2.itw.com/~buddha/
  /___\_/___\ "That which does not kill us makes us stronger"
 *************

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 22:52:21 -0300
Subject: Re: Methods of painting headers 

At 13.56 05,08,96 -0300, you wrote:
>Eastwood has a "Stainless Steel" paint that I put on the exhaust manifolds of
>the SX over 5 years ago and they still look great.
>
>Never tried it on headers tho.
>

is it gloss, or flat?
               zack

>Bob Handren
>'67 W-30 Modified
>'70 SX Convertible
>
>
      ___
     /. .\
    _\_*_/_                     -<Buddha>-
   / /   \ \                   Buddha@itw.com
   \_\___/_/            HTTP://www2.itw.com/~buddha/
  /___\_/___\ "That which does not kill us makes us stronger"
 *************

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 23:44:10 -0300
Subject: Re: Do I use the "C" or "E" Heads, etc.? 

In a message dated 96-05-08 21:26:08 EDT, you write:

>These "E" heads have hardened seats, right??  There seems to be some
>confusion here on that. Also, Chris Witt said he had a set of NOS "E" heads
>he was going to cc the chambers on.  If you posted it Chris I missed it.  Do
>the "E" heads have a smaller combustion chamber?

I have this same question about my "E"'s. I thought only the 442 motors came
with them (or was that with the rotators?). Maybe it was the W-30 heads that
had all these? Who knows the truth (beyond what Mondello and Year One print-
yeah, #7's with hardened seats...)

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 01:19:39 -0300
Subject: Screwdriver Filter Wrench...was Re: misc stuffs/oil filter

> >I have _never_ used a screwdriver to remove any oil filter before.
> 
> I did it _once_, on an old Pontiac with a filter that had apparently
> been _tightened_ with a wrench. (No joke: the instructions on Sears
> filter boxes actually told you to tighten the new filter with a wrench!)
> Hated to try and twist it off with a screwdriver, because once you punch 
> the hole in the side of the filter, there's no going back.

	Only time I've ever had to resort to such things was on my '83 
Chubby C*amaro.  Right after I bought the thing I did a total tuneup.  
First thing on my list was of course an oil change.  After draining the 
oil, I discovered that King Kong had apparently been asked to install the 
new oil filter at the last change.  The space is really tight (I feel for 
you guys with the headers!!)  and the strap wrench simply would'nt fit.  

	I ended up pounding a flathead through the thing, and got it to 
turn.  Only problem was that there was only enough room for about 1/16 of 
a turn!  Grrr.  So, I ended up putting about 4 holes through the thing to 
get it off.  Remember folks-- HAND TIGHT!!!

	
			Scott
		1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 01:13:25 -0300
Subject: Car for sale, Hot tank fixed, etc.

	Hey everyone!
I was digging through the classifieds this afternoon (I always look, and 
wish I actually had some money to spend!!)  and found this--

	1958 Olds 98 4 door
	V8, Auto, 1 previous 
	owner, complete, no 
	rust.  $1250
	549-0586

	That ad is right above a '68 Buick Riveria "true classic" (their 
words, not mine) for $1450!


	Sounds like it might not be a bad deal if it's stright, and a 
hardtop (dos'nt say).  Who knows, might even be J-2 :)  I can easily 
believe that it's rust free too, since we use sand instead of salt, and 
the summers are pretty dry.  If anybody is interested I would be happy to 
give the guy a call and check it out (I'm tempted to do it anyway out of 
curiousity, but since I don't have any $...)  Let me know if you're 
curious too.

	I also checked the stuff in my hot-tank, and everything seems fine 
now (no more crystals, anyway).  My blower housing is now shiny, and 
ready for paint (along with the motor itself).  I also cleaned the boot 
that connects the housing to the heater core housing.  I'd heard 
somewhere (was it hear?...don't remember) that you could use brake fluid 
to soften old rubber parts like that.  At any rate, I tried it and it 
seem to work ok.  Made kind of a mess on my garage floor, but the boot 
looks good as new.  It seems like the brake 
fluid penetrates better than things like Armor All, but that could just 
be all in my head (or maybe it's just the brake cleaner fumes).  

	Oh, and thanks for the suggestions on paint and things 
(Andrew,etc.)  I'll give that satin black a try.  

	
			Scott
		1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98
	 

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 05:34:27 -0300
Subject: SX questions

Today I ran across a chance to buy for dirt cheap a basket case 70 
Cutlass Supreme SX.  It will come with the original engine but no trans, 
driveshaft, or rear end.  The factory front disc brakes will be replaced 
with run of the mill drum units.  "rusted out" sums up the body pretty 
well.  The firewall and most major sheetmetal is rusted through.  Now the 
questions:

1) What are the specifics of the engines in these cars? (This appears to 
be a 4-barrel model)

2) What is such a car worth in that condition?

3) Anyone have a clue as to production figures, my Year One says "???" 
for all models? (Only figure I've heard, which I have taken with a large 
grain of salt, is 1 of 100 built.)

This car was owned by one family until probably around 1990 then given to 
a friend who stacked a 125hp nitrous plate, TH-350, Chevy 12-bolt w/ 4.10 
gears and proceeded to run 12.50's on slicks with the 130,000 mile engine 
using the stock Q-jet.  Now this car is going to be mine and I am 
probably going to use the engine in my project Cutlass until my "built" 
motor comes out of the shop.  I was thinking about donating the shell 
sans drivetrain to a local classic car restorer, is this a good idea?

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: ar713@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Linda Zuccaro)
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 07:53:34 -0300
Subject: Re: IRC Meet Recap 

Reply to message from BobH592058@aol.com of Wed, 08 May
>
>If you have a minute I would like to be educated as to how to access the next
>meeting.
>
>I use (for the time being) America On Line.  Can I access the meeting or do I
>need different software/access.
>

All I did was enter the IRC chat area on my local FreeNet and
switch servers once in there. [perhaps why I never got dumped
out when everyone else disappeared!]

>Bob Handren
>'67 W-30 Modified
>'70 SX Convertible
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 08:27:36 -0300
Subject: Re: It's Dead! 

>        You know Chris its funny, but if I had a nickel for every person
>that came to me after one of their earleir attempts at building an engine
>went wrong, It seems to always be something small that triggers a series of
>events that eventually destroys an otherwise healthy engine. A word of
>advice, the small details are sometimes THE most important.
>

     Yeah, of couse every now and again you find some idjut that forgets to
tighten the rods down, and suddenly feel rather intelligent when faced with
thier stupidity!  Any genious can miss the simple things, it takes true
ignorance to break the most basic of rules.  Fortunately, those stories
always seem to start with "One time I was building this Chevy...!"
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 08:27:43 -0300
Subject: Re: engine found, etc. 

>Towing the race car down to Det. Sunday, pestered by the usual number of idiots
>going 35 in the center or fast lanes. Found a neat way to do regular motorists
>a favor: as you pass the turtles, honk a couple times to get their attention,
>the gesture and point and mouth the words 'tire problem- you better check your
>tires...' worked about 2/3 of the time... Heh.

               OOOOHHH, I LIKE That one!  I'll have to try that soon!
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 08:27:26 -0300
Subject: Re: hurst prices 

>Rare 15th Anniversary, 1983 OLDSMOBILE HURST, 2-door, auto,
>lighting rodshifters, t-tops, am/fm cassette, tint, needs water pump, all
>original,114000 MILES, second owner, $3900 or best offer, call
>XXX-XXX-XXXX, 9 am-9pm, AUSTIN
>
>1983 OLDSMOBILE Hurst, BLACK w/T-tops, tint, 3 shift auto, new
>dual exhaust,rebuilt carborator, new battery & alternator, excellent shape,
>$3500negotiable (XXX)XXX-XXXX OKC
>
>
>1984 OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS HURST, loaded, sunroof, alarm, 307,
>air conditioning, 4-speed, auto, $3800, XXX-XXX-XXXX hm, Johnny,
>XXX-XXXX dig, pgr., SA, TX
>
>
>
>These prices seem very low to me

     Oh, Man!  Where do I sign?!?  :o
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 08:28:08 -0300
Subject: Re: Auto Humor 

>Don't believe I saw this one in the list.  I've had a lot of good natured fun
>with over the years.
>
>GTO = Gone To Olds!
>
>Ford
>
>F***** Ove Rated Disaster

Can't forget F***, Our Ride Died!
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 08:44:09 -0300
Subject: GTOs and  'Olds' Ladies ( Was Re: Auto Humor)

> From: BobH592058@aol.com

> Don't believe I saw this one in the list.  I've had a lot of good natured fun
> with over the years.
> 
> GTO = Gone To Olds!
> 
Also remeber GTO ==> Gast, Tires and Oil

The Olds Acronym that started out 'Old Ladies Driving Slowly..' was prominently
exemplified yesterday on my commute home from Boston on the Mass. Pike...

I was proceeding westbound (as proceeding east from Boston would put one
in the Harbor :) ), just before the Watertown exit, when I came upon a nice
Delta 88 in the middle lane:  White, four door, of late 70s very early 80s
vintage.  Very nice shape, I thought to myself.  Prolly belongs to either
an aficianado of fine automobiles or an old lady, I concluded.

What tipped me off that perhaps the latter was correct as I got closer were
the facts that the car was doing 'only' 55 in the middle lane, and the left
directional was blinking, and had been the whole time I was gaining on the car
in the left lane.  And in fact there was no traffic in the left lane beside
her, so she was prolly not intending to go there.

Quite the contrary; as I drew up to her, just as I spotted the white beehive,
which barely topped out above the top of the seat, the Delta suddenly swerved
into the *right* lane, causing the driver of the car currently *in* the right
lane to apply his brakes sufficiently to bring down the nose of his car and
swerve a little himself.

The last I saw of the Delta, it was proceeding up the Watertown exit ramp,
the left directional *still* blinking...



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'88 Cadillac Brougham, a.k.a. 'Big Blue' -- Olds 307 Powered!!
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: Rons95GT@aol.com
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 09:26:56 -0300
Subject: Re: Automobile Humour  

Finally read your message.....some neat ones there.

Tried to call you yesterday, but no answer.  Don't know if I told you or not,
but Robby and I are going to Las Vegas in July for 7 days.  Going to try and
go to the Grand Canyon and other places too.   Should be a blast.  Roundtrip
air and 7 nights at the Excalibur....just built in 1990, 4032 rooms, right on
the Strip.......only 515 each.  Seems pretty good to me.  I'm looking forward
to it.

Played softball the other night, hurt my thumb and got beat......kind of
sucks....don't like it like I used to.

I'll be in touch.

Ron

------------------------------

From: Susan Pitts <stp8n@virginia.edu>
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 10:40:08 -0300 
Subject: Re: GTOs and  'Olds' Ladies ( Was Re: Auto Humor)

>The Olds Acronym that started out 'Old Ladies Driving Slowly..' was prominently
>exemplified yesterday on my commute home from Boston on the Mass. Pike...

I couldn't help but laugh at your story even though my grandmother drives at
78 and owns, yes...a 90's model 88 and only with the extra lift from her
cushion can see over the dash between the steering wheel.  Why do these
ladies insist on having big cars?  I tried to get her to buy a little car,
said we'd all be safer, but no...she won.  But it's awfully funny to see her
in this huge car, she's such a petite woman!
Susan Pitts
University of Virginia School of Law
580 Massie Road
Charlottesville, VA  22903-1789

O:(804)924-4769
F:(804)924-7536

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 10:51:47 -0300
Subject: Stuffs, 307 roller quirks

Dismantling a 307 roller cam engine last week, I found a few neat features. The
cam is held towards the rear of the block by a little spring & rubber? cup that
go on the cam bolt, press against the timing cover. Brass button? Why? Just go
to your local dealer & get this spring, button, bolt. Also, there's a plate,
secured by the two oil gallery plugs, that holds the cam in place. Pistons
appear to be full-floating... there are circlips holding the pins in place.
Kinda like a motorcycle. About that size, too... The roller lifters are held in
place with open end wrench shaped plates that fit onto flats on the lifters.
These plates are held down by a springy metal 'spider' that bolts to the #2 & 4
cam bearing bosses, just like the old valley trays. So, one could easily
install a valley tray....

> I had the most bizarre ride of my life tonight on my way home from work.
> Episode #1
>
> I am listening to David Neumann on WXYT Talk Radio (1270 AM), stuck in
> traffic with my driver side window partly down. I hear, suddenly,
> maniacal shrieking from behind me. I look out my driver side window to
> the rear of my truck and see a bearded young man in his late 20's
> behaving in the most peculiar fashion. He is making audible sounds that
> is something between a laugh, a scream and a seizure. He catches my eye
> and starts swearing at me...

Welcome to the big city, huh?


- --DM EFI system on order--
> I am tremendously jealous, please let us know how well it fits, works and >
gets you down the track...

I second the motion... the cost/ benefits?

> Subject: Hosed by the machine shop...
>
> Last week I took my newly aquired 7a heads to the machine shop to have them
> hot tanked and pressure tested.  I figured it would save me alot of time
> cleaning them and alot of grief if they were cracked and I didn't know it.
>  Well today I picked them up, and found out that they had surfaced them
> because they weren't straight.  Great!, how  much did they take off and is it
> the same on both sides???  All for a grand total of $110!  So it wound up

I see this sometimes, too. I think they want to pay off the grinder... It costs
them practically nothing but electricity and an occasional set of stones, and
they make a lot of $ on that process. However, my Olds manual says that 0.005"
or less of unflatness is OK, and THAT was for 0.020 steel shim gaskets... so
seems to me like 0.005" of 'warpage' should be tolerable today. However, I do
advocate milling heads, to obtain compression... but then you need to go beyond
making it flat again, and take off about 0.030" or more... and maybe shave the
intake sides accordingly, or the intake.
 Always be sure to tell them NOT to go beyond what exactly you tell them to do,
w/o prior authorization.

> > Has anyone ever experienced a real stiff gear selector?  So stiff, in fact,

Yeah, the white 66 parts car had a real stiffie. I thought I was gonna break it
to move it. Disconnected linkage at the trans finally, to get it ot of Park.
Crusty linkage. Not an issue anymore, for THAT car... -Chris-

>   Run, do not walk, and pull the oil pan off this thing so we can
> set this "does the '77 403 have solid main webs?" argument
> straight once and for all!

There were Two '77 403's in the pile at Padnos lat time, neither with solid
main webs. I even extracted the pan from one to see... -Chris-

> machine work into a lump of blued steel, but I guess I'm trudging on ahead
> anyhow.

Well, it's the first time I have ever seen that happen... usually, the bearings
start to pound, and give an indication that there's a problem. This time, they
stayed put, just melted. really weird. Extrremely rare occurrence.  -chris-

> Subject: Olds 350 M/T Flywheel
>
> Anyone got a source for the above mentioned?
>                      -->   Bob Valentine  <--

Yeah, Mondello sells them, and National Automotive Lines, I believe. Any 68-up
350, 455, etc will use the same flywheel. See Bryce's web page for list of
suppliers. -Chris-


> Question for you guys that are running aftermarket air cleaners or later model
> air cleaners to clear your HEI retrofit. What do you do with the PCV hoses tha
> formerly went to your air cleaner? My 69 400 has PCV hoses on both valve cover
> driver's side to carb (no prob) passenger side to air cleaner (Dohhh!). I know
> I need to keep this system fully functional and am looking for yall (good Texi
> bad english) to help me out. If I go the late model route, I could just drill
> new hole and put the grommets in there, but if I go the aftermaket (chrome, pi
> pan type, open filter) way, what then?

Huh? Where's the PCV valve itself then? I thought that the PCV went in one
RACover grommet, to big full-vacuum port at base of carb, and otherRACover ran
a tube up to the filtered-air side of the air cleaner... Or, at least, to the
air cleaner, wher it had its own little foam filter thingy... Tha second line
is supposed to connect to the air cleaner so that under WOT conditions, lots of
blowby, little vacuum, the c-case gasses, now coming OUT that 2nd tube, get
routed into the engine and burned as best we can.
That's what the manual says.
  Anyhow, you CAN alter an aftermarket air cleaner usually by making a hole in
the base plate between filter and carb, and routing the 2nd hose there. most
even have a puncout ready. -Chris-

>      I know that Fram makes an HP2 filter (they're spendy, about $10) for
>      high-performance oldsmobile use, but I can't find one anywhere.

Just saw them last nit in PAW's catalog, readily available, $7 each, save a few
$ over Mondello's prices... Xst gaskets, $6/pr... composite intake gaskets,
$6-7/pair... They have just about EVERYTHING... Except Engle cams. -Chris-


> Trust me, there was no other way. I've been building and wrenching Olds'
> since the late 50's.  Not even the wrap around strap type would work.  The
> Hooker headers I had way back when (late 60's) didn't have this problem. The
> band type filter remover used then is still in my toolbox and used on the SX
> which has no headers (and none planned either!). It looks like they raised
> the tubes as high up into the frame as they could to reduce kissing accidents
> with road surfaces.  'Course they don't care if you have filter problems.
> Bob Handren

Well, ya gotta do what you gotta do...

> At 02:44 AM 5/8/96 -0300, you wrote:
> >Is it true that the 1970 455 rocket was the last of the "high compression"
> >engines.
>
> Yes, the stock compression of the 1970 455 was 10.5 to 1.  In 1971, the
> compression dropped to 8.5 to 1.  Quite a change!!
> Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme

Yes... See the FAQ for more explicit info...

> >bolts which are coverd by the intake runner? On the race car's deluxe motor
> >with a Torker, I resorted to hex-drive cap screws, and used Bondhus ball-end
> >hex key to tighten them. Saved about 1/2 hour per installation, cost a few $
> >for the screws and about $15 for the ball-end drivers. Japan versions are
> >cheaper, but why bother?
>
> > Chris
> I have a torker on my OLDS also used header bolts with 7/16 head , no
> special tools required.
> Tim McChesney 71 cutlass convert

Well, you know, these heads were shaved about 0.045", but not the intake, so
bolts are now crowding the runners. I had a coule that there was no way a box
end wrench was going on the header-style bolts [forget even getting a normal
bolt IN there!]/, and getting an open end 7/16 wrench onto it was a 1/2-turn at
a time challenge... the socket-head bolts look great, work great, and are far
faster to install. -Chris-

> When assembling this engine did you pay close attention to your rod side =
> clearance? Do your rods have small pin holes drilled in them from the =
> factory( near the cap) or did you grind oil releifs in them yourself? If =
> so how large?

Yep, EVERYTHING was checked. Can't recal the exact number, about 0.010, ok for
street or adequate ro limited racing per most experts. Rods did indeed have the
cam-lubing squirt holes in the side, and I machined the Mondello-recommended
1/2" wide by 0.012" deep reliefs in the rods' sides, both sides, at beam
location and bottom of cap. If this were the problem, it'd have affected the
rear 4 cylinders too. Since only the front was burned, it points heavily to oil
delivery failure. -Chris-

> All right all you experts, I need some advice.
>
> As you may have noted, I am a do it myselfer as much as possible.  Money has
> never been available in large quantities.  At this point however it is clear
> I need some head work.  The engine in my '67 W-30 is a low compression 455

> These "E" heads have hardened seats, right??  There seems to be some
> confusion here on that. Also, Chris Witt said he had a set of NOS "E" heads
> he was going to cc the chambers on.  If you posted it Chris I missed it.  Do
> the "E" heads have a smaller combustion chamber?

Yep, hard seats & big valves. Same 79-80 cc that every other BB head has...
uncut.

Your situation defines the phrase 'six of one kind, half a dozen of another'.
Except maybe the C's would be 'more correct' for a 67 car... and ll the more
valuable with hard seats.

> How much HP does blocking the heat riser (for example with the Modello
> pieces) actually add?  Again, I like the driveability.  But it is (usually)
> pretty warm in Florida so how much does that modification hurt driveability
> for a driver?  I've used sheet metal block-offs in the past but not the
> "plugs". How good are they?

I'd use the meltable alloy, and shape the ports afterward. How can that do any
but help flow? Esp with headers, where the negative pressur pulse is upposed to
help extract gasses.... -chris-

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 09:48:22 -0300
Subject: Re: engine found, etc. 

>>Found a neat way to do regular motorists
>>a favor: as you pass the turtles, honk a couple times to get their attention,
>>the gesture and point and mouth the words 'tire problem- you better check your
>>tires...' worked about 2/3 of the time... Heh.
>
>               OOOOHHH, I LIKE That one!  I'll have to try that soon!

I prefer J.C. Whitney part number 89XX0348X, electronic emergency headlight
alternating flashers. If stuck behind the offending party in the passing 
lane, simply flip a toggle switch and your high beams go

        FLASH.....
        ......FLASH
        FLASH......
        ......FLASH
        FLASH......
        ......FLASH

etc. This may be of dubious legality (and it's tempting to be a real jerk
with this gadget), but so is passing on the right in some states.  :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Bruce D. Brumm" <bdbrumm@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 14:08:02 -0300
Subject: Re: turtles in left lane

Andrew C. Green wrote:
> 
> >>Found a neat way to do regular motorists
> >>a favor: as you pass the turtles, honk a couple times to get their attention,
> >>the gesture and point and mouth the words 'tire problem- you better check your
> >>tires...' worked about 2/3 of the time... Heh.
> >
> >               OOOOHHH, I LIKE That one!  I'll have to try that soon!
> 
> I prefer J.C. Whitney part number 89XX0348X, electronic emergency headlight
> alternating flashers. If stuck behind the offending party in the passing
> lane, simply flip a toggle switch and your high beams go
> 
>         FLASH.....
>         ......FLASH
>         FLASH......
>         ......FLASH
>         FLASH......
>         ......FLASH
> 
> etc. This may be of dubious legality (and it's tempting to be a real jerk
> with this gadget), but so is passing on the right in some states.  :-)
> Also, on my '84 and '86's simply flashing my brights repeatedly works well, too.  My
brights are 4-beam which is why this works.  I may have caused more than one
"panic" lane change with this method. :)  Looks pretty convincing!
- -- 

Bruce D. Brumm (bdbrumm@ix.netcom.com)
Network & Systems Administrator
LDM Technologies, Inc.
Troy, MI

'84 Cutlass Supreme 307-Y
'86 Cutlass Salon 307-Y

------------------------------

From: clark@sh28.dseg.ti.com (Pat Clark 952-3776)
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 11:12:35 -0300
Subject: Re: Automobile Humour

> From oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca Thu May  9 07:30 CDT 1996
> Date: 	Thu, 9 May 1996 09:26:56 -0300
> From: Rons95GT@aol.com
> To: oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
> Subject: Re: Automobile Humour 
> 
> Finally read your message.....some neat ones there.
> 
> Tried to call you yesterday, but no answer.  Don't know if I told you or not,
> but Robby and I are going to Las Vegas in July for 7 days.  Going to try and
> go to the Grand Canyon and other places too.   Should be a blast.  Roundtrip
> air and 7 nights at the Excalibur....just built in 1990, 4032 rooms, right on
> the Strip.......only 515 each.  Seems pretty good to me.  I'm looking forward
> to it.
> 
> Played softball the other night, hurt my thumb and got beat......kind of
> sucks....don't like it like I used to.
> 
> I'll be in touch.
> 
> Ron



	I hope Ron and Robby have a good time in Vegas. Hope that thumb heals
up also. Who is Ron and Robby and why is this posted to the list?

PS. With that "95GT" in his email address, I bet he is a F*rd owner too. Gaack!



          ___              ___        _________
         /   |            /   |      /         \
        /    |           /    |     |   ___    |
       /     |          /     |     |__|   |   |
      /      |         /      |           /   /   
     /       |        /       |          /   /   
    /   /|   |       /   /|   |         /   /
   /   /_|   |__    /   /_|   |__      /   /
  |             |  |             |    /   /
  |______     __|  |______     __|   /   /_____
         |   |            |   |     |          |      Pat Clark
         |___|            |___|     |__________|       69 442
						      400/400

   "Just your average 300+hp garage hogging, gas sucking, money pit"

------------------------------

From: urbanch@magi.com (Chris Urban)
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 11:43:51 -0300
Subject: Re: Do I use the "C" or "E" Heads, etc.? 

>You wrote:
>
>These "E" heads have hardened seats, right?? 
No they do not, unless someone added them.


Do the "E" heads have a smaller combustion chamber?
No they are the same 80cc +/->

>
>The question is, do I save the "C" heads and the porting work by installing
>hardened seats, new guides, etc. or go to the "E" heads, save on the seats
>(if they are actually hardened) and pay to have them ported, etc.

Hard seats are not abosolutltey neccesary. If your like most performance
enthusiasts and tear your engine down say every 50k hard seats are not
required because it takes about this much mileage for them to recess enough
in your head to make them a liability, on the other hand if you want to get
100k or more out of your engine between builds by all means put them in. New
guides on the other hand if needed should be put in but this can be done at
home by just about anyone.>
>More questions: 
>
>I have never port matched the intake because I was told the Edelbrock Torker
>was actually designed to direct the air/fuel charge into the head and that
>port matching can slow the flow (venturi effect?) and reduce cylinder
>filling.  Any ideas on that one?  Frankly some of the passages appear to be
>narrowed because that's where the manifold bolt has to go.  Sounds good
>though.

You must port match all intakes to the heads for maximum gains otherwise
there will be significant misalignments between the head, gasket and intake.
Tp see this more clearly use your gasket as a template and scribe the
outline of ports on the head s and intake, this will give you a good
indication of how much metal must be removed. Remeber to feather it in
smoothly into your port. Always port aluminum before cast iron as your hand
gets used to the pressure required and if you go to aluminum after porting
cast iron you have a good chance of driving your tool in deep and taking out
(very quickly) a lot more material than you planned.
>
>At what compression ratio does it become critical to retard the spark when
>running nitrous.  I suspect my comperssion ratio is about 8:1 (thicker head
>gaskets, unshaved heads, TRW low compression forged pistons).  I've been
>running BB Olds' for many years.  Even when detonation can't be heard over
>the headers (and NOS is LOUD) I have been able to feel it in the "seat of the
>pants".  Back when I used to run 12:1 pistons, I could feel it when the spark
>was too advanced.  I have made quite a few runs on the bottle with no hint of
>a detonation problem and, so far, no indication of any damage either.  If I
>bump the CR to 9:1 will problems start?  I love the flexibility I now have in
>burning any fuel (except when using NOS), no overheating, etc.  So, leave it
>alone if it ain't broke?

Your really getting into a complex situation here. Every engine will react
differently to advance because of the minor differences in your distributors
nd engines condition. If your really concerned contact NOS about there auto
spark retard boxes which bring back the advance when the nitrous is activated.
>
>How much HP does blocking the heat riser (for example with the Modello
>pieces) actually add?

>How much HP does welding the ports on the exhaust provide?  That one would
>seem to have no effect on driveability.

Blocking this off is worth more power than just about any other mod to an
Olds head. Picture having a big hole in 2 of your ports and what that would
do to air flow. When your playing with 10 cfm improvements ( which are
considered significant) blocking these ports will improve a port at least 50
% (guessing-- I should measure the before and after on a flow bench one of
these days). I normally had these welded over but recently discovered this
zinc alloy that Mondello has sold for quite some time. I've been told this
is the easiest way, I'll be trying it in the next few weeks so I'll have a
better idea then. Welding the exghaust port flange up is worth 5% in HP
gain, every little bit helps.
  

Again, I like the driveability.  But it is (usually)
>pretty warm in Florida so how much does that modification hurt driveability
>for a driver?  I've used sheet metal block-offs in the past but not the
>"plugs". How good are they?

Forget any plugs, these heat riser must be contoured to your port otherwise
you may actually hurt the flow.
>

>
>The car is a ball to drive.  I do not campaign it on the track every weekend
>but it gets driven just about every one.  It does need head work so what
>would you do?
>
 Don't forget the 3 angle valve job!!!1



>BTW - I LOVE to meet 5.slows!  It's fun.
>
>Bob Handren
>'67 W-30 Modified
>'70 SX Convertible
>
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: Susan Pitts <stp8n@virginia.edu>
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 12:29:58 -0300 
Subject: Everyone should read this Re: turtles in left lane

>> >>Found a neat way to do regular motorists...
EVERYONE SHOULD READ THIS...
Not to somber anyone's posting, but aggravating motorists these days (at
least here in Virginia) can be hazardous to your health...

One girl near Culpeper was abducted by a man who pulled her over claiming
something was wrong with her car...It's hard to believe that a person would
do that to hurt someone, but...This was done on a beautiful country road
where you'd think he was just a nice older man being a friend in need, a
good samaritan...found her body yesterday...all this occurred near my office
and she looked a lot like me...car was fine...other women had been stopped,
picked up and dropped off safely where they wanted...their cars were fine
too.  But they never went to the police to report him...

** She was a smart girl, only married 14 months, doctoral candidate in
Baltimore, 25 years old and really cute, haven't we learned not to get into
a stranger's car?...he must have really been convincing...and he's still out
there...

Also have heard of lots of problems in northern Va. with motorists being
shot or killed in wrecks on the crazy commutes to work...did anyone see the
picture of the wreck outside Fairfax where one of the cars traveling in the
opposite direction (not knowing anything about the idiot cutting off people
in the other direction) was almost vaporized it seemed.  Could barely tell
it was a minivan!

So, think twice before you get cute.  I have a habit of showing the power in
my Cutlass and my husband has warned me not to get cute with other drivers.
For some of us, the fun of driving the roads alone (especially with the top
down) has ended.  It's a shame what's going on now, but from the last few
postings, I just wanted to add that we must all be safe.  After all, we'd
hate to see something tragic happen to someone in this group.  RE: posting
yesterday about wild ride home had some good advice too, don't egg crazies
on.  That slow person you aggravate may have a gun underneath the seat and
be on drugs...please be careful...

[PLEASE READ THIS:  and if you see someone stopped along the road
(especially an olds) even if someone is with them, pay some attention and if
possible call the police for assistance for that person.  It could save a
person's life...like Alicia Showalter Reynolds.]

...AND TEACH WIFES, GIRLFRIENDS, AND DAUGHTERS ENOUGH ABOUT THEIR CARS SO
THAT STRANGERS WON'T DECEIVE THEM...MY THANKS TO MY DAD AND HUSBAND FOR
TEACHING ME THE BASICS OF CAR MECHANICS!  I may not be able to fix it, but I
hope I've learned enough to keep me alive these days.

Susan Pitts
University of Virginia School of Law
580 Massie Road
Charlottesville, VA  22903-1789

O:(804)924-4769
F:(804)924-7536

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 11:49:21 -0300
Subject: Re: Everyone should read this Re: turtles in left lane 

>Not to somber anyone's posting, but aggravating motorists these days (at
>least here in Virginia) can be hazardous to your health...

Exactly...

>** She was a smart girl, only married 14 months, doctoral candidate in
>Baltimore, 25 years old and really cute, haven't we learned not to get into
>a stranger's car?...he must have really been convincing...and he's still out
>there...

...and the other moral, which this demonstrates, is keep control of the
situation. Drive to a well-lit area if possible, that sort of thing. This
comes up occasionally in the papers here: the cops issue a warning saying
something like "a guy with an unmarked car is posing as a cop and trying
to pull over motorists", etc. They usually say that no real cop in an
unmarked car would be pulling people over for minor violations, nor would
he/she object to your driving "at a moderate pace" to any well-lit area
first, nor would he/she object to your request to have a uniformed officer
show up as backup.

>So, think twice before you get cute.  I have a habit of showing the power in
>my Cutlass and my husband has warned me not to get cute with other drivers.
>For some of us, the fun of driving the roads alone (especially with the top
>down) has ended.  It's a shame what's going on now, but from the last few
>postings, I just wanted to add that we must all be safe.  After all, we'd
>hate to see something tragic happen to someone in this group.

And get a car phone. One that's permanently installed in the car is one
that you can't forget or leave behind, or have a portable with you if you
use several cars routinely. A minimum service package is only a few bucks
a month and the competition for lowest prices is pretty fierce. My wife
carries an NEC-701, a really small portable, whenever she and my 2-year-old
son go out.

And to twist an old cliche, The Life You Save May be Someone Else's. You
may have a car in tiptop shape and drive like a nun, but who knows what
you may come across. I have never had to call for help in case of a problem
with _my_ car, but have made at least five emergency calls on behalf of 
others, when coming on the scene of about four traffic accidents and one
medical emergency over the past couple of years that I've had a cellphone.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: J.Easton@zds.com (Jeff Easton)
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 12:16:04 -0300
Subject: Air Filters for OAI

     While on the subject of air filters, what do you guys with OAI systems 
     use?  I've finally got my OAI hood in the shop to be painted and was 
     putting on the flapper assembly when I noticed that the old non-OAI 
     filter was too tall and too wide to fit the new top pie pan.
     
     Went to the local Trak Auto and found that the AC-Delco A366C was the 
     filter of choice (with a mention of an alternate A542 w/outer wrap).  
     However, it seems that the Chicago area stores dont stock these 
     particular filters.  I'd hate to order it at full price from a GM 
     dealer.  Any suggestions?
     
     I'm getting my car in shape for the summer, by putting on all the 
     parts I've been collecting for the last year or so.  Put the rear 
     spoiler on and replaced the rear springs and shocks last week.  Car 
     sits about 3" higher now and looks like a muscle car once again.  With 
     26 year old springs the rear was dragging quite a bit.
     
     -Jeff Easton
     Zenith Data Systems
     
     1970 442  4-Speed

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 12:29:02 -0300
Subject: Re: Air Filters for OAI 

>     Went to the local Trak Auto and found that the AC-Delco A366C was the 
>     filter of choice (with a mention of an alternate A542 w/outer wrap).  
>     However, it seems that the Chicago area stores dont stock these 
>     particular filters.  I'd hate to order it at full price from a GM 
>     dealer.  Any suggestions?

I notice various little Mom'n'Pop-sized auto parts places with huge "Official
AC-Delco Parts Supplier" banners and signs scattered around. Judging from all
the signage (a lot of times it's pretty obvious that AC-Delco paid for the
owner's sign, like those ubiquitous Old Style signs over bars), they might
have a good supply of obscure air filters in there, better than what Trak
Auto stocks. You might want to try phoning around one or two of them.

And have you asked Trak to order it? Used to be that they wouldn't, but now
I think they brag (at least for the Superstore outlets) that they'll special
order stuff if necessary.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 13:35:12 -0300
Subject: 455 W34 specs

> From: Suzanne Cooper <ewok@clarkston.com>
> Subject: 455 specs
>
> I found a cam that I would like to purchase, with a high lift of .504.
> Is this too much lift for stock, 10.25:1 compression pistons for a '70
> toronado 455?  The stock lift I think is something like .42?, or .472 if it
> is a W-34.

Well, so long as the retainer does not hit the seal and/or valve guide top, no
problem. Can you measure retainer-seal clearance on your heads, or do you need
me to do that for ya? If you have 0.504 plus about 0.030 or so for spare,
should be OK. Don't think coil bind or valve-piston interference, nor rocker
slot ends will be the limiting factor here.

> And speaking of the W-34, is there any other way to identify that engine
> besides the oil fill tube?  If there is, it will be much easier to open it
> now, before it is put into the car.  The crankshaft has an "N" on the first
> counterweight, if that means anything.  Also, does the W-34 have any
> differences from the normal 455 besides the cam?

Well, is the whole car there? Dual xst, cold air induction parts... Toro
engines have a few external giveaways, but none of the ones I know of would
discern a W34 from a lesser Toro. The chamfers cut onto the camshaft's front OD
would be the surest sign... See FAQ for list of things that indicate a Toro
455: slanted oil filter mount, deep oil pan with axle clearance notch and 2" of
straight-down on RH side, motor mount attached to the timing cover, windage
trays on main caps, main cap stud-bolts to accommodate same, -252 [usually]
carb number, dist'r number, etc.
  Yes, the N is significant. It means the best 455 crank you can get. There are
better ones [forged], but you can't 'get' them. Not w/o paying about $1500 from
Mondello et al.

> And finally, is there any way to tell the difference between the '68
> toronado engines that had the rare forged steel crank and the ones that
> didn't?  I just found a '68 for sale, and that caused me to ponder the
> thought.  If the only way is to look at the crank, then I will not bother
> with it.
> Paul Rousseau

Yeah, I wonder that, too. Sure would love to see, in person, one of them
alleged 'forged' cranks. I wonder if they got confused and thought that the
Nodular iron [N] crank was actually forged...
  I hear a RUMOR that the forged units had neither the L-shaped notch on the
crank's rear OD [where the flexplate bolts] as did earlier forgings and some
350-N cranks, nor the vastly more common C-shaped notch that 'most all cast
cranks have, but rather a J- or fishhook-shaped notch. Having never seen one, I
cannot say for sure. [Better call that guy I met last week, ways he has one...]
  If you remove the trans inspection cover [tork converter cover] you should be
able to peer up in there w/ flashlite, turn engine until notch of crank, just
fwd of the flexplate, is visible, and ascertain it's shape: L, C, or J. If in
doubt, buy it, it price is anywhere near correct. There'll always be a market
for that engine.
   I half-extracted a 68 Toro engine last year, and then bought another for
parts, the latter seems to have the basic C- notch that indicates a 'good'
Nodular crank... The quest continues...

   Again, and still, I offer rewards for photographic or similar positive proof
that the following items exist:
* Solid-main-web 403 block
* Forged 455 crankshaft
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: Cary Yamamoto <yamamoto@unr.edu>
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 13:40:27 -0300
Subject: Coolant flush

I am strategizing my weekend plans.  I want to flush my coolant system
out, becuase it has become very rusty.

What do you recommend for flushing a system?  Is this prestone super flush
good or should I just drain and flush with water.  Do I need to take ou
the thermostat and run the car to circulate the water to help flush?

The ultimate question is this.  I have tried to replace coolant before,
and drained the radiator.  But when refilling with new coolant, it seems
like I cant get the full amount into the system.  



Cary Yamamoto                                 University of NV, Reno
Coordinator,                                  Prospective Students/110
Prospective Students                          Reno, NV  89557
                                              (702) 784-4865 
	                                      (702) 784-1852 fax	 

------------------------------

From: Lucas Frick <frick@macrochip.com>
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 13:59:11 -0300
Subject: RE: 455  W34 specs

I'll take you up on that reward for the steel crank picture, Chris
Next week I'll have a scanner here at work.  Send you one then.  No not =
the crank, the picture.  Put in a motor mount last night  - didn't know  =
It would be that much of a pain.  Jacked the engine up and down at least =
10 times to bend the mounts correctly.  Finished around 1:30.

442 Luke

------------------------------

From: clark@sh28.dseg.ti.com (Pat Clark 952-3776)
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 14:17:54 -0300
Subject: Re: Everyone should read this Re: turtles in left lane

> And get a car phone. One that's permanently installed in the car is one
> that you can't forget or leave behind, or have a portable with you if you
> use several cars routinely. A minimum service package is only a few bucks
> a month and the competition for lowest prices is pretty fierce. My wife
> carries an NEC-701, a really small portable, whenever she and my 2-year-old
> son go out.
> 
> And to twist an old cliche, The Life You Save May be Someone Else's. You
> may have a car in tiptop shape and drive like a nun, but who knows what
> you may come across. I have never had to call for help in case of a problem
> with _my_ car, but have made at least five emergency calls on behalf of 
> others, when coming on the scene of about four traffic accidents and one
> medical emergency over the past couple of years that I've had a cellphone.
> 
> Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
> Datalogics, Inc.
> 441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
> Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473
> 

Another use for a car phone is one that my wife dearly loves. She routinely 
calls in drunk drivers to 911. Hey, the call is free, and to paraphrase A.G.,
The Life You Save May be Someone Else's. She has even followed a couple (at a
safe distance of course) and given updates on the DWI's course and given statments to the police when they got busted! 
Along the lines of not aggrevating someone on the highway; a couple of months
ago a man shot another man who accosted him at a stoplight. Said the guy tried
punch him through his window and he felt threatened! Here in Texas we have a 
right to carry law, so you never know about what some people are capable of.
	Shifting gears again. I put the recurve kit into my smogger HEI last
night. Tonight or tommorrow I will try to finally install it in the olds. Thanks
to everyone who has given me advice on this. Hopefully everything will go smooth
and I won't have any more questions on this.
	2nd Gear: Can your car (oh, lets say its a 69 442) pass inspection
without the heat riser tube that goes from your air cleaner down to your exhaust
manifold? If you change to an aftermarket pie-pan type air cleaner it wont be
there anymore. Thanks again,


          ___              ___        _________
         /   |            /   |      /         \
        /    |           /    |     |   ___    |
       /     |          /     |     |__|   |   |
      /      |         /      |           /   /   
     /       |        /       |          /   /   
    /   /|   |       /   /|   |         /   /
   /   /_|   |__    /   /_|   |__      /   /
  |             |  |             |    /   /
  |______     __|  |______     __|   /   /_____
         |   |            |   |     |          |      Pat Clark
         |___|            |___|     |__________|       69 442
						      400/400

   "Just your average 300+hp garage hogging, gas sucking, money pit"

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 13:16:53 -0300
Subject: Re: Coolant flush 

>What do you recommend for flushing a system?

I use the backflush-with-hose-tee-in-the-heater-hose method. This is
what that Prestone flush-and-fill kit does for you, although I hate to
buy that because it comes with two extra flush tees in a size I will
never use, plus I already have the garden hose connector piece, plus
the silly gooseneck thing you're supposed to clip into the radiator
filler neck isn't long enough to do any good...

Okay, enough complaining. I buy the 5/8" flushing tee from the local
parts place and cut it into the 5/8" heater hose (permanently installed).
I then _ignore_ the little radiator drain petcock and remove the lower
radiator hose at the radiator connection instead. Why? Because more often
than not the petcock is seized or on the verge of seizing anyway, and the
big rush of coolant gushing out of the lower radiator opening carries the
old sediment out a lot more effectively than draining via the petcock will
ever achieve.

So after draining the old stuff (into a container, not down the sewer),
I press the lower hose back on temporarily, turn on the garden hose and
start the engine. I also turn the dash heat control to HOT to open the
heater valve. The backflush flows out the top of the radiator, and every
few minutes I pull the lower hose off and let it gush out the bottom to
remove additional sediment.

When the flush water is clear I turn off the hose, disconnect it and
drain the water from the system. Since there will be a significant amount
of water left behind in the block and heater core, I put _all_ the antifreeze
in _first_, 100% straight from the bottle. (Look up the capacity of the 
cooling system in the owner's manual, then pour in half that much antifreeze.)
After that, fill up the rest of the way with water and you'll be at 50%
mixture strength.

>Is this prestone super flush
>good or should I just drain and flush with water.

To tell the truth, I've never used the stuff. New coolant every two years
seems to keep things normal.

>Do I need to take out
>the thermostat and run the car to circulate the water to help flush?

Don't think so, since the "backwards" flow is supposed to clear out the
engine passages anyway.

>The ultimate question is this.  I have tried to replace coolant before,
>and drained the radiator.  But when refilling with new coolant, it seems
>like I cant get the full amount into the system.  

You should be able to drain at least half the water out (and if you're
not sure you did, disconnect the lower hose and see if any more comes
out). Therefore if you start refilling with 100% antifreeze until you've
put in the right amount according to the book (aiming for a 50% mixture
to finish with), you should have enough room to get it all in.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Doug Ahern <doug@cobra.cosmic.uga.edu>
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 14:10:37 -0300
Subject: cold air 5" dia. flex tubing

I'm building a cold air system similar to the early w-30 442's and
the early sixties thunderbolts: 2  4 or 5" dia flex hoses that route
cold from the front of the firewall to an air cleaner box.  I'm 
lacking a source for the flex hoses.  Any ideas?


Doug Ahern      doug@cosmic.uga.edu  1964 F-85 Cutlass 
http://www.cosmic.uga.edu/doug.html  1969 Dart 
Sys Admin, COSMIC, Univ. of Georgia  1974 Satellite ex-cop car

------------------------------

From: "Andrew A. Senko" <senko@reston.ans.net>
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 14:43:32 -0300
Subject: 442 - Coincidence?

Here's some random happenings from the last ten minutes.  Coincidence?? You
decide:

1)  My sister calls to tell me her flight plans.  "I'll be arriving on
    flight # 442".

2)  Now that that's settled, I decide to get some lunch at the local deli.
    Parked in the deli lot is a 442 (not a common sight around here), 80's
    era.

3)  Lunch total comes to $5.58... I give the guy $10, my change is $4.42.

Are the gods trying to tell me something?

- -- 
                    _
                    |\            Convertibles                     
     .__====-_._____|_\______         Rule!                        Drew Senko
     [   ___  |-     |  ___  \                           senko@reston.ans.net
     =\_//.\\_|______|_//.\\__)                  http://members.gnn.com/senko
_________\_/____________\_/__________________________________________________

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 14:46:55 -0300
Subject: Re: Coolant flush 

At 01:40 PM 5/9/96 -0300, you wrote:
>
>I am strategizing my weekend plans.  I want to flush my coolant system
>out, becuase it has become very rusty.
>
>What do you recommend for flushing a system?  Is this prestone super flush
>good or should I just drain and flush with water.  Do I need to take ou
>the thermostat and run the car to circulate the water to help flush?
>

I've always used just water.


>The ultimate question is this.  I have tried to replace coolant before,
>and drained the radiator.  But when refilling with new coolant, it seems
>like I cant get the full amount into the system.  

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

I'm not laughing at you, I'm SYMPATHIZING with you!  I've ALWAYS run into this
problem.  How I get around it is why I flush only with fresh, clean water.

You have to assume that, no matter how long you let the system drain, there
is still coolant left in the system.  When you flush the system and then let
it drain, the "flushant" doesn't all drain out of the system either.  So what
I do is flush and drain and flush and drain until the drained fluid is clear
and clean.  I then assume that anything left in the system is pure, clean
water.  I then add new coolant WITHOUT DILUTING IT!  The presumption is that
it will be diluted by the remaining water that didn't drain out.  By doing
it this way, I'm able to cram into the system the amount of coolant the manual
says I should be able to.  Once the two gallons or whatever of coolant is
in, I then top the system off with more water.  

Assuming that the cooling system capacity is
what the book says it is, assuming that I put in the correct amount of
ethylene glycol to make it be 50% of that capacity, and assuming that the
system is fully topped off with water, I think I can safely assume that
the system is at the correct water/coolant ratio.


************************************************
Daniel A. Gulino
Associate Professor and Graduate Chairman
Department of Chemical Engineering
Ohio University
Athens, Ohio  45701-2979
(614) 593-1495
(614) 593-0873 (fax)
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://www.ent.ohiou.edu/che/faculty/gulino.html
************************************************

------------------------------

From: Susan Pitts <stp8n@virginia.edu>
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 14:49:59 -0300 
Subject: Re: Everyone should read this Re: turtles in left lane

>>Not to somber anyone's posting, but aggravating motorists these days (at
>>least here in Virginia) can be hazardous to your health...
>
>Exactly...
>
>...and the other moral, which this demonstrates, is keep control of the
>situation. 

Situation with girl happened in broad daylight, lots of people said they saw
her, no one paid much attention, thought father figure was helping daughter...

>And get a car phone. 

Good advice.  Also know all the codes for the phone (we need a code to
unlock before it can be used) and important phone numbers should be
programmed into the phone if possible, so that in an emergency you wouldn't
need to stop and look them up.

Susan Pitts -- stp8n@virginia.edu
'70 Cutlass Supreme Convertible - "RGTP DAY"
'87 442

------------------------------

From: Susan Pitts <stp8n@virginia.edu>
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 15:35:31 -0300 
Subject: Re: 442 - Coincidence?

>Here's some random happenings from the last ten minutes.  Coincidence?? You
>decide:

My husband has loved 442s all his life.  Really wants to get a '70
442...studied in room 442 in college...owns an '87 442...it's interesting
where these three number appear...whenever they do, I know it's meant to be...

>
>Are the gods trying to tell me something?

DEFINITELY!
>
>-- 
>                    _
>                    |\            Convertibles                     
>     .__====-_._____|_\______         Rule!                        Drew Senko
>     [   ___  |-     |  ___  \                           senko@reston.ans.net
>     =\_//.\\_|______|_//.\\__)                  http://members.gnn.com/senko
>_________\_/____________\_/__________________________________________________
>
>
>
Susan Pitts -- stp8n@virginia.edu
'70 Cutlass Supreme Convertible - "RGTP DAY"
'87 442

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 15:45:19 -0300
Subject: Re: SX questions 

In a message dated 96-05-09 06:42:00 EDT, you write:

>Today I ran across a chance to buy for dirt cheap a basket case 70 
>Cutlass Supreme SX.  It will come with the original engine but no trans, 
>driveshaft, or rear end.  The factory front disc brakes will be replaced 
>with run of the mill drum units.  "rusted out" sums up the body pretty 
>well.  The firewall and most major sheetmetal is rusted through.  Now the 
>questions:
>
>1) What are the specifics of the engines in these cars? (This appears to 
>be a 4-barrel model)

See below

>2) What is such a car worth in that condition?

$50-$100 w/o engine; add in value of engine if included.

>3) Anyone have a clue as to production figures, my Year One says "???" 
>for all models? (Only figure I've heard, which I have taken with a large 
>grain of salt, is 1 of 100 built.)

Around 6,000 Holiday Coupes, about 1,000 Converts. Less than half that # of
'71's were built. The exact figures are in the FAQ, I believe.

>This car was owned by one family until probably around 1990 then given to 
>a friend who stacked a 125hp nitrous plate, TH-350, Chevy 12-bolt w/ 4.10 
>gears and proceeded to run 12.50's on slicks with the 130,000 mile engine 
>using the stock Q-jet.  Now this car is going to be mine and I am 
>probably going to use the engine in my project Cutlass until my "built" 
>motor comes out of the shop.  I was thinking about donating the shell 
>sans drivetrain to a local classic car restorer, is this a good idea?

Well, depends if you want another project or not. Personally, I wouldn't part
out the shell, since I like the SX so much (and have a rear-axle, tranny and
driveshaft to put into it). But if you don't have the interest, by all means
donate to someone who does.

Here's some details on the SX that were discussed on the list a bit back:
(this is from someone else's post)
***************************************************************************
>In 1970, the W-32 referred to the 365hp engine in the Cutlass Supreme SX,
>which is different from the previous years, when it was an option on the
442.
>I am not quite sure how it worked out, order-wise, since a contemporary
>article refers to the "early" version of the SX having the 320hp 2-bbl 455
>(which my '70 SX came with), which was later "updated" to the 365hp 4-bbl
>455.
>
>So, I don't know if the 320hp motor was standard throughout the run of the
>SX, with the W-32 as an option, or if the 320hp motor was only installed in
>early cars, and *replaced* entirely with the 365hp W-32 motor.
>
>Apparently, there were no W-32 emblems or such to identify the 365hp motor
>(which was identical to the stock 442 'plant, but only called W-32 when
>installed in the Cutlass Supreme notchback body style).
>
>All the articles I have seen written on the C.S. SX have been too brief and
>general to be of much use. Anyone know of a good article or chapter that
>gives the definitive information on the SX option?
>
I don't know if this is what you want to know or not.  All info is taken from
the '70 Product Selling Features Album.  The SX (referred to under the
W-Machine tab as the SX Conversion) was the Y79  SX Performance Package and
included:

442 Rear Bumper w/cut-outs
Special Front Fender Emblems
Chrome Wheel Discs (P01)
320hp Rocket 455 H.C. Engine (L33) (no comment made about carb.)
Turbo Hydra-matic 400 Transmission (M40)
Full Dual Exhaust System includes straight-through muffler, resonators,
tailpipes.

>From the "New Features" column: "A new 320hp Rocket 455 V-8 (L33), with
2-barrel carburetor and dual exhausts, is available for Cutlass, Cutlass S,
Cutlass Supreme Holiday Sedan, and for Cutlass Supreme Holiday Coupe and
Convertible as part of a new SX Performance Package (Y79).

On 2-24-70, Oldsmobile New Car Merchandising issued memo #N/C 70-3,
Cancellation of L33 engine option.  This engine was cancelled for the balance
of the 1970 model year.

"The L31 engine, 365hp, 4bbl., 455 V-8 H.C., will now be included (as
replacement for the L33 engine) in Option Y79, the SX Performance Package for
models 4257 and 4267 only."  (L31 was the standard engine for the 98)

"The Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price for L31 with SX Performance
Package (Option Y79) is $141.13."

The chart on this memo also shows engine option W32 available with Y79:

"While the description of the L31 and the W32 engines (for SX Performance
Package) are similar, there is considerable difference in engine
characteristics.  The L31 engine is designed to operate with lower axle
ratios (2.56, 2.78, or 3.08) and develops maximum torque at lower rpm.
 Option W32 is a performance engine designed to operate with higher axle
ratios (3.08, 3.23, or 3.42) and develops maximum torque at higher rpm."

The produce selling feature album itself makes no reference to the W32 engine
or specifications.  It does give specifications for the 442 365hp engine,
which does develope torque at a higher rpm than the L31, but does not have an
option code.  I'm assuming it's the W32.  The memo gives no MSRP for the W32
w/Y79 either.

I would gladly send a photocopy of this memo to those interested if you send
me a SASE.  Email me directly for address if you are interested.
Phartlieb@aol.com.
***************************************

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 15:45:23 -0300
Subject: Factory Cutlass low-riders? 

Has anyone ever noticed something about factory pictures of the '68-'72
Cutlasses? The rears look like the springs have 400,000 miles on them, the
way they are sagging back there! Was this the way the cars were actually
delivered, or did the camera crew just have all their gear in the trunk at
the time?

I had noticed this before, but it just caught my attention in the factory
pictures Year One has in its catalog; I have seen it in other pictures as
well.

I personally think those year Cutlasses look best with just a bit of forward
rake, the opposite of what the factory pics show. (no, I don't like the rear
to look like I'm preparing for four-wheelin' though)

What's your preferences on this?

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 15:50:29 -0300
Subject: Re: 442 - Coincidence?

> 3)  Lunch total comes to $5.58... I give the guy $10, my change is $4.42.
> 
> Are the gods trying to tell me something?
> 
> -- 
>                     _
>                     |\            Convertibles                     
>      .__====-_._____|_\______         Rule!                        Drew Senko

It must be time to buy a Toronado... :)

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-8007    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 15:52:19 -0300
Subject: Re: 442 - Coincidence?

> From oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca Thu May  9 14:44 EDT 1996

> >Here's some random happenings from the last ten minutes.  Coincidence?? You
> >decide:
> 
> My husband has loved 442s all his life.  Really wants to get a '70
> 442...studied in room 442 in college...owns an '87 442...it's interesting
> where these three number appear...whenever they do, I know it's meant to be...
> 
> >
> >Are the gods trying to tell me something?
> >

Actually, it's Douglas Adams, author of 'The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy'...

There is an editing error in his book.  Deep Thought's answer to Life,
The Universe and Everything was *really* 442, not 42... :)




Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'88 Cadillac Brougham, a.k.a. 'Big Blue' -- Olds 307 Powered!!
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 15:51:04 -0300
Subject: AL V8

Huh, the aluminum V8 is still at Padnos, saved from the giant loader. Guy I
told about it was supposed to come back & remove its trans, get just the
engine, but hasn't. If it's still there tomorrow, I think I'll have me an
aluminum V8... the carb still has the tag on it: 7023142, a 2V Rochester.
  The rest of the pile was crap &/or gone, including those two '77 403 blocks
[oooooh!]
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 14:57:27 -0300
Subject: Re: Factory Cutlass low-riders? 

>Has anyone ever noticed something about factory pictures of the '68-'72
>Cutlasses? The rears look like the springs have 400,000 miles on them, the
>way they are sagging back there! Was this the way the cars were actually
>delivered, or did the camera crew just have all their gear in the trunk at
>the time?

Style, I think... or a little bit of cheating with a sandbag in the trunk,
maybe. For a while there everyone was photographing their cars with parking
lights on and the front wheels turned towards the camera (i.e. so you'd be
looking straight at the tread). Then they went to photographing the cars
with the front wheels turned the _other_ way, so you'd look squarely at the
wheel covers... then they went back again, etc...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Doug Ahern <doug@cobra.cosmic.uga.edu>
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 16:10:30 -0300
Subject: Re: Factory Cutlass low-riders?

> Has anyone ever noticed something about factory pictures of the '68-'72
> Cutlasses? The rears look like the springs have 400,000 miles on them, the
> way they are sagging back there! Was this the way the cars were actually
> delivered, or did the camera crew just have all their gear in the trunk at
> the time?

ah, the old california rake vs. the texas rake debate.  The texas rake
was the first, rear end lowered.  when the california rake came out, everyone
thought it looked funny, but now the only intentional texas rakes are
50's led sleds...

I like a slight cal rake,  but I'm with you, I don't want the entire rear
axle exposed,,,  that and slotted mags with rear rubber sticking out 1 foot
on either side was a rear 70's product.  along with crushed velvet, custom
dashs and consoles, murals, vans, and tunes... 

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 16:01:54 -0300
Subject: Re: Do I use the "C" or "E" Heads, etc.?

At 11:43 AM 5/9/96 -0300, you wrote:
 I normally had these welded over but recently discovered this
>zinc alloy that Mondello has sold for quite some time. I've been told this
>is the easiest way, I'll be trying it in the next few weeks so I'll have a
>better idea then. Welding the exghaust port flange up is worth 5% in HP
>gain, every little bit helps.

I know about closing that crossover port in the heads, but what are you
welding when you talk about "welding the exhaust port flange up"?  What gets
welded to what?

The only stupid question is the one not asked...

- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

 "I was put on this earth to accomplish a certain number of things;
    right now I'm so far behind, I'll never die"  --Calvin

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 16:20:58 -0300
Subject: Re: 442 - Coincidence? 

>
>Here's some random happenings from the last ten minutes.  Coincidence?? You
>decide:
>
>1)  My sister calls to tell me her flight plans.  "I'll be arriving on
>    flight # 442".
>
>2)  Now that that's settled, I decide to get some lunch at the local deli.
>    Parked in the deli lot is a 442 (not a common sight around here), 80's
>    era.
>
>3)  Lunch total comes to $5.58... I give the guy $10, my change is $4.42.
>
>Are the gods trying to tell me something?

     No, actually I think that was one of Dr. Olds's marketing strategies.
Make sure everything cool ends up as 442, and people will subliminally buy
the cars!   (Ooooh!)  
     They say that 666 and 777 are superstitous numbers, and people who
think they mean something are halfway out of their gourds.  Now 442, on the
other hand, means something cool, and those that disagree need to get
halfway out of their fords!
     On a similar note, I just finished my job at the local bowling alley
(they closed for the summer)  About two months ago, I got a new urethane
ball - my first "new - real" ball.  My first league series score with it was
442.  The second was 455!  No sh-t!  Gotta mean something!
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 16:20:55 -0300
Subject: Re: Factory Cutlass low-riders? 

>I personally think those year Cutlasses look best with just a bit of forward
>rake, the opposite of what the factory pics show. (no, I don't like the rear
>to look like I'm preparing for four-wheelin' though)
>
>What's your preferences on this?
>
     
     I agree 450%  The Gran Sports were like that, too.  I don't know if
they were supposed to be, or what, but a cheap pair of air shocks certainly
made it look like it ~should~
     I've got an ERTL die cast model of a 70 GSX Stage 1, quite cool.  It
had that same "tailpipe-plow" stance when I got it.  It took about two weeks
for me to take it apart and stick a couple Bic pen springs above the rear
axle, and use longer screws to hold it on.  It sits right, now, too!
     I think the Pontiacs suffered the same illness, also.  We really don't
care about the Chevelles, tho, do we?  :)
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 16:20:52 -0300
Subject: Re: Everyone should read this Re: turtles in left lane 

>Another use for a car phone is one that my wife dearly loves. She routinely 
>calls in drunk drivers to 911. Hey, the call is free, and to paraphrase A.G.,
>The Life You Save May be Someone Else's. She has even followed a couple (at a
>safe distance of course) and given updates on the DWI's course and given
statments to the police when they got busted!

     Another good one goes like this:
    
          You've just been clocked doing something you shouldn't have been
doing.  (or perhaps not, but you don't want them to find out that your doing
something you shouldn't be doing...)  At any rate, there's a patrolman in
the mirror, and he seems to be watching nothing but your plates.  A good
friend of mine got away with this:  Pick up phone, call dispatcher.  Report
an accident about three blocks away from your location (use a different
name, of course!)  When cops flip on lights and pass by, it becomes a good
time to turn off and dispose of any unwanted evidence, or park the car, etc,
etc!  
     I've never tried this for myself, but I've helped a few friends out of
binds that way, and I've seen others save hours of trouble with it!
(Course, I'm not going to get into any "right vs. wrong" type of discussion
here, that's not up to me to do!)  :)
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: Jeff Hunter <jchunter@xcelco.on.ca>
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 16:29:54 -0300
Subject: IRC Meeting TONIGHT! 

Our second Oldsmobile Mailing List Online chat will be held tonight at 8:00
pm.  It will be held on AnotherNet, which can be accessed through these servers:

        neato.ca.us.another.org
        dragon.ne.us.another.org
        sunrise.ca.us.another.org
        TGF.vt.us.another.org

Once connected, join #oldsmobile


Thanks... hope to see you there!
Jeff Hunter
jchunter@xcelco.on.ca

P.S. If you need help using mIRC or IRC itself, please email me!

------------------------------

From: Doug McClanahan <mcclan@wsdot.wa.gov>
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 16:53:45 -0300
Subject: 330 exhaust manifolds wanted

I'm looking for an exhaust manifold for the passenger side of my little 
'67 330.  ...but I want the dual exhaust version.  

Also, I gave my old manifolds to my dad to sand blast.  He decided that 
since he couldn't budge the driver's side heat activated valve (stuck in 
the closed position) he should do me a favor and cut it off.  I kinda 
wanted to make that work so if any one has the working driver's side 
manifold, I would be interested in that too.  Thanks.

Doug
mcclan@wsdot.wa.gov

------------------------------

From: Susan Pitts <stp8n@virginia.edu>
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 17:12:15 -0300 
Subject: Re: Factory Cutlass low-riders?

>Has anyone ever noticed something about factory pictures of the '68-'72
>Cutlasses? The rears look like the springs have 400,000 miles on them, the
>way they are sagging back there! Was this the way the cars were actually
>delivered, or did the camera crew just have all their gear in the trunk at
>the time?


As the owner of a '70 with only 131,000 on the original springs, we
installed new springs last summer and I have to say that it did look much
better and sat just a little higher, however, when we fill up that gas
tank...you can feel the car begin to weigh down.  It's rather humorous!
Susan Pitts
University of Virginia School of Law
580 Massie Road
Charlottesville, VA  22903-1789

O:(804)924-4769
F:(804)924-7536

------------------------------

From: Rocketeer <bparker@nmsu.edu>
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 17:59:10 -0300
Subject: Re: Do I use the "C" or "E" Heads, etc.?

>  I normally had these welded over but recently discovered this
> >zinc alloy that Mondello has sold for quite some time. I've been told this
> >is the easiest way, I'll be trying it in the next few weeks so I'll have a
> >better idea then. Welding the exghaust port flange up is worth 5% in HP
> >gain, every little bit helps.
> 
> I know about closing that crossover port in the heads, but what are you
> welding when you talk about "welding the exhaust port flange up"?  What gets
> welded to what?
> 
David,

What they are refering to is the amount of recess the exhaust port divider
has when compared to the cylinder head surface on the exhaust side. If you
remove the exhaust manifold you'll notice that the divider for the two center
exhaust ports does not come all the way out to manifold mating surface.

By "welding it up" you provide enough material to keep the two center ports 
physically seperated all the way to the manifold mating surface. This  
prevents exhaust gas crossover prior to the exhaust manifold/header. Why
Olds insisted on siamesed exhaust ports I have often wondered.

Does anyone know if the Batten head has individual exhaust ports?

Boyd

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 10:54:23 -0300
Subject: Re: IRC Meeting TONIGHT! 

     Is that 8:00 EST or Greenwich time?
     
     Assuming 8:00 EST, what do people say to moving it to 8:30 EST in the 
     future.  That's 5:00 for us on the west coast, and most of us are 
     still at work (or stuck in--er, I mean passing--traffic with our 
     Oldsmobiles).
     
     Seeya all there tonight, if a bit late. . .  Let's hope the chat 
     server behaves this time!
     
     Tom L.

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: IRC Meeting TONIGHT!
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    5/9/96 1:24 PM


Our second Oldsmobile Mailing List Online chat will be held tonight at 8:00
     pm.

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 18:05:42 -0300
Subject: Re: Do I use the "C" or "E" Heads, etc.?

At 05:59 PM 5/9/96 -0300, you wrote:
>
>What they are refering to is the amount of recess the exhaust port divider
>has when compared to the cylinder head surface on the exhaust side. If you
>remove the exhaust manifold you'll notice that the divider for the two center
>exhaust ports does not come all the way out to manifold mating surface.
>
>By "welding it up" you provide enough material to keep the two center ports 
>physically seperated all the way to the manifold mating surface. This  
>prevents exhaust gas crossover prior to the exhaust manifold/header. Why
>Olds insisted on siamesed exhaust ports I have often wondered.
>
Aah, I see now...it's all so clear.

Thanks!
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

 "I was put on this earth to accomplish a certain number of things;
    right now I'm so far behind, I'll never die"  --Calvin

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 18:21:06 -0300
Subject: Re: Factory Cutlass low-riders?

> > Has anyone ever noticed something about factory pictures of the '68-'72
> > Cutlasses? The rears look like the springs have 400,000 miles on them, the
> > way they are sagging back there! Was this the way the cars were actually
> > delivered, or did the camera crew just have all their gear in the trunk at
> > the time?
	
	Right now my 98 sits pretty level (well, actually the front is a 
*little* higher, but only because all the front sheet metal is gone).  
Personally, I like it just a little bit higher in back.  On my '63 
Galax*e, the back was getting pretty saggie, so I added helper springs 
(cheezie, I know, but I could'nt afford new leaves at the time).  It 
lifted it just a couple degrees above level, and looked pretty cool.  I 
even had a couple "automotivly impared" guys make comments about my 
"traction bars".  Ha!

> 
> I like a slight cal rake,  but I'm with you, I don't want the entire rear
> axle exposed,,,  that and slotted mags with rear rubber sticking out 1 foot
> on either side was a rear 70's product.  along with crushed velvet, custom
> dashs and consoles, murals, vans, and tunes... 
> 
	Unfortunatly, some people around here did'nt notice when that 
went out of style.  There is a 66 or so Cutlass running around town with 
its butt in the air and tires that stick out 4 or 5 inches (AK!!) and 
thoes oh-so-attractive 8" long spring shackels.  What a shame.  Even a 
pro-street would have been better (I mean, come on guy--if you want big 
huge meats, at least keep them under the car!!)  I won't even get into the 
vans with the murals!
		
			Scott
		1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: urbanch@magi.com (Chris Urban)
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 19:17:09 -0300
Subject: Re: Do I use the "C" or "E" Heads, etc.? 

>
>I know about closing that crossover port in the heads, but what are you
>welding when you talk about "welding the exhaust port flange up"?  What gets
>welded to what?
>
>I guess I wasn't clear enough, I was referring to the wall between the
center exghaust ports. It does not come up all the way to the outside
surface of the head, thus as exhgaust gas exits the head and into the
headers it will tend to become turbulent.

------------------------------

From: urbanch@magi.com (Chris Urban)
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 19:17:12 -0300
Subject: Re: Do I use the "C" or "E" Heads, etc.? 

you wrote:
>
>Does anyone know if the Batten head has individual exhaust ports?
>
While the ports are still side by side on Batten heads there is a great deal
more space between them, it would be closer to 0.75"
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 20:13:30 -0300
Subject: Re: Do I use the "C" or "E" Heads, etc.? 

In a message dated 96-05-09 17:17:37 EDT, you write:

>>What they are refering to is the amount of recess the exhaust port divider
>>has when compared to the cylinder head surface on the exhaust side. If you
>>remove the exhaust manifold you'll notice that the divider for the two
center
>>exhaust ports does not come all the way out to manifold mating surface.

Of course, if you are using log-type cast manifolds, those often don't have
any kind of divider between the two center ports, so welding there wouldn't
gain you much.

On my E's, the divider comes to about 1/16" from the machined exhaust
manifold surface on the head. Since the factory manifolds have a divider, it
would seem that there is minimal restriction there using them, which might
not justify the difficulty of welding on cast-iron. I can see where there
would be a large restriction using headers that would make such mods worth
it, though.

Did any small-block manifolds come with the center divider?

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 20:58:50 -0300
Subject: Re: Filters

As others have indicated, the trusty AC PF-24 oil filter is used on most 
non-Ch*vy GM V-8s of 60's vintage. I know that in my case the same filter 
that I use on my Olds 350 also is specified for my '64 Buick 300 V-8.

Note that there was an AC oil filter made for Trans-Am Turbos of the 
early 80's which was far larger than the PF-24 - it looked like an old 
round quart oil can. I don't know the AC # but I inspected one once in a 
parts store and I concluded that it would replace the 24 if you wanted 
more capacity and filter area. Threads, gasket position, etc. looked the 
same. An AC x-ref book should supply the part #.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 21:06:01 -0300
Subject: Re: cold air 5" dia. flex tubing

On Thu, 9 May 1996, Doug Ahern wrote:
> I'm building a cold air system similar to the early w-30 442's and
> the early sixties thunderbolts: 2  4 or 5" dia flex hoses that route
> cold from the front of the firewall to an air cleaner box.  I'm 
> lacking a source for the flex hoses.  Any ideas?

Our favorite supplier, J. C. Whitney, carries just such an item. Fresh 
air duct hose, available in 6-foot lengths, in a variety of diameters. 
The description says it's rubber-covered fabric hose reinforced with 
spiral wire inserts.

5" dia. is cat.# 19BD0356N
6" dia. is cat.# 19BD1934Y

Price for either is $13.95. Phone 800-553-1872.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 21:00:31 -0300
Subject: Re: Filters

At 08:58 PM 5/9/96 -0300, you wrote:
 Threads, gasket position, etc. looked the 
>same. An AC x-ref book should supply the part #.
>
>Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
>
>
>
Post that number if you can find it.

Thanks!
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

 "I was put on this earth to accomplish a certain number of things;
    right now I'm so far behind, I'll never die"  --Calvin

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 21:12:46 -0300
Subject: Re: Factory Cutlass low-riders?

Actually, the factory pics of my '68 show it low on all four corners. I
don't like that look much, and when I got mine it was really saggy. I
replaced the rear springs first and got that nice cal rake you described. 
Then I replaced the fronts and it sits slightly higher in the front now
than the rear, a tex rake which I don't like as much. I suspect the rear
springs have sagged some since I installed them almost 2 years ago - so
much for using Moog cargo coils. 

Anyone know a good solution to buy 1/2" to 1" of height on coil springs 
other than those rubber blocks that you jam into the spirals? I don't like 
the idea of using them since I hear they can snap a spring on you. Anyone 
know of a coil spring platform that you could insert over or under the 
spring to produce the same effect, sort of a thick rubber biscuit maybe? 
Don't really want to replace the rear springs *again*...


Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 21:18:55 -0300
Subject: Re: Factory Cutlass low-riders?

At 09:12 PM 5/9/96 -0300, you wrote:

>Anyone know a good solution to buy 1/2" to 1" of height on coil springs 
>other than those rubber blocks that you jam into the spirals? I don't like 
>the idea of using them since I hear they can snap a spring on you. Anyone 
>know of a coil spring platform that you could insert over or under the 
>spring to produce the same effect, sort of a thick rubber biscuit maybe? 
>Don't really want to replace the rear springs *again*...
>
>
>Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
>
Yeah, get some air shocks ;)
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

 "I was put on this earth to accomplish a certain number of things;
    right now I'm so far behind, I'll never die"  --Calvin

------------------------------

From: ngomez@iadfw.net (Nick Gomez)
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 20:52:13 -0300
Subject: Oil Filter Question Summary 

Thanks, everyone, for ALL the helpful replies. All the responses I got led
me to use the AC Delco oil filter PF24. Also mentioned was the Fram PH25
oil filter, but I couldn't find it.

Some tips provided were to fill the new filter with fresh oil before you
screw it on, thus avoiding the scary 15 seconds before the oil begins to
circulate. It's easy to do since Olds oil filters mount vertically. Stock
up when the filters are on sale at large retail stores such as Target and
Wal-Mart. Of course, always use jack stands!

This was a great learning experience, thanks again for all the assistance!
BeaTniK

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 16:55:56 -0300
Subject: Re: cold air 5" dia. flex tubing

Doug Ahern wrote:
> 
> 
> lacking a source for the flex hoses.  Any ideas?
> 
> Doug:

J.C. Whitney has them.  I got some for my 1968 4-4-2 last year.  They 
seemed good quality, but don't have to hold much more than just air.

Bill Culp

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 21:54:31 -0300
Subject: crank is in

The crank from the guy in NY is in... it is indeed a 425 crank, 10-10, nice &
pretty, and with CL77 bearings, all ground & delivered for a mere $140. I think
he has a 455 unit too if anyone is interested... Took about 3 days to get here.
Packaging coulda been better, but here it is. I am happy.

It's not BLUE either :)
Too bad it's not a forged 455 crank...
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 17:01:11 -0300
Subject: Re: AL V8

Chris Brown Witt wrote:
> 
> Huh, the aluminum V8 is still at Padnos, saved from the giant loader.

Chris:

I have one in a turbo car that I have owned since 1976.  Check out the 
water passages before you buy.  Some people used just plain water when 
they came out and didn't realize that the factory meant it when they 
said use 50/50 water/antifreeze.  The aluminum reacted to the plain 
water and just ate-up.  I don't know how you would fix one if it was 
damaged.

Bill Culp

------------------------------

From: Bob Valentine <ravalent@liii.com>
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 22:07:07 -0300
Subject: Re: Factory Cutlass low-riders?

On Thu, 9 May 1996 Bob0Barry@aol.com wrote:

> Has anyone ever noticed something about factory pictures of the '68-'72
> Cutlasses? The rears look like the springs have 400,000 miles on them, the
> way they are sagging back there! Was this the way the cars were actually
> delivered, or did the camera crew just have all their gear in the trunk at
> the time?

    I know what you mean.  I think this was a leftover from the "space 
age" look of the car about to take off; look at the pix of early 
Mustangs.  I can remember my father talking about shackling the rear DOWN 
for that "jet" look.   

> I personally think those year Cutlasses look best with just a bit of forward
> rake, the opposite of what the factory pics show. (no, I don't like the rear

    Same here.  I just put in towing springs in the rear of my '71 (about 
1" higher than stock) and H.D. replacements in the front.   Just the 
right amount of rake.

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                    --> ravalent@liii.com  <--
     "Clinging Tenaciously to the Trailing Edge of Technology"

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 22:51:31 -0300
Subject: Re: Factory Cutlass low-riders? 

In a message dated 96-05-09 15:28:43 EDT, you write:

> We really don't
>care about the Chevelles, tho, do we?  :)

Nah, they've always got their tails draggin', no matter what you do to them

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #171
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