
oldsmobile-digest            Monday, 6 May 1996         Volume 01 : Number 168


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Alf Reibel <areibel@iu05trc.trinet.k12.pa.us>
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 20:20:36 -0300 
Subject: The New Guy

Hello Everyone!
I'm a new subscriber to the Olds list, and I was wondering if someone out
there could answer a few questions.  I am starting to restore my wife's '84
Cutlass Calais (Buick v-6, T-tops,HD Suspension, etc.).  It's in good shape
overall with one major exception-MAJOR Rust in the rear frame sections
directly behind the rear wheels. I don't want to just scab it up with
plates, so here goes-
1) My preference is to swap the frame with a rust free one.  I know it's a
lot of work, but I want it right the first time. (And I have done a similar
swap with my '81 Dodge truck).  I'm not too familiar with GM's body/frame
construction,and was wondering what years/models might be possible donors?
2) Do I need a particular model frame to reuse the HD suspension parts? i.e.
would it have to be another Cutlass Calais or would any 2 door RWD Cutlass work?
3) Are there many parts sources for this vintage Cutlass?  I see many for
the older style, but not for these.  I'm looking for items such as interior
plastic & trim, emblems, Rally wheel rings & centers. etc., either good
used,repro or NOS.  I've checked some swap meets (no one handles anything
this "new") and scrap yards (where anything older than ten years is too
old!).  My local dealer's parts dept. isn't much help- I can get the same
dumb looks in a mirror!("Why do you want to spend money on a car that old?"
- -this from an Olds Dealer!)
4) Can I still get a body manual/shop manual from GM, or can someone
recommend a good aftermarket source?
5) Is there anywhere on the net (or any reference source) that can decode
the broadcast sheet option codes?  Some are listed in the Owner's manual,
but most aren't.
Thanks for any help you can give.  I surfed the net and found several
similar cars on the Olds site, along with the Olds mailing list, so I'm
hoping someone has some wisdom and knowledge to share. 
 My wife bought the car new in '84, and I'd really like to get it back on
the road.  It's been stored for 5 years patiently waiting for a lot of time
and money!  It will live again!!!
Al Reibel
Beautiful downtown Cambridge Springs, PA.

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 20:44:37 -0300
Subject: Factory Mags for a 1st gen. Toronado? 

Well, I called a guy who listed a '70 Toro, whole or for parts. 

Odd conversation (he asks my phone #; not too wierd; but also asks my
address-thorough, I guess- but when he hears my Toro is stored at my
parent's, he asks *their* address. "Uh, no, you don't need to know that...";
freaky guy).

He says it's been sitting for five years, but has all options and worked well
then (uh-huh; and that means it does now?); wants $750 for the whole thing.
Q:"Any rust?" A:"Here and there..." (uh-huh) Q: "I need a main switch for the
Comfortron Automatic Air-Conditioning; it has that option?" A: "Yeah, it's
got the 455" (uh-huh)

Then he says something that I wasn't expecting: "Yeah, it's got the factory
aluminum wheels, all in good shape."

Now I've never heard of or seen a factory aluminum wheel for the first
generation Toronado. So, either this guy has an incredibly rare and unusual
option that I can buy and put on my '69, or he is an insane cannibal and I am
better off without a working comfortron.

So, *has* anyone ever heard of first-generation Toro factory aluminum wheels?
Perhaps he means the Chrome rims? Perhaps he has a _79_ Toro and has
forgotten to take his Lithium?

And while we're on the topic, *are* there any factory aluminum/aftermarket
rims that will fit the first-generation Toro? And do the second-generation
rims ('71-'77) fit the first-generation cars?

TIA

- -Bob the '69 Toro-owning, '70 Toro maniac avoiding, guy.

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 20:52:07 -0300
Subject: Re: '70 olds question 

In a message dated 96-05-03 20:26:03 EDT, you write:

> I have always been told
>that there were only 50 made like this for the Miss America pagent that year
>in New Jersey.  I'm trying to get some confirmation about this.

Just had an idea.  Wonder if the Olds History Center would be able to give
you any info on these MAP cars???

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 20:52:08 -0300
Subject: Re: Rear Speakers (WAS: Re: Here she is... Miss America) 

In a message dated 96-05-04 20:37:15 EDT, you write:

>I think the car in question was a convertible, so that won't do. I know 
>that those converts had a rear speaker option that (as I recall) fired 
>towards the rear end of the car, probably not ideal. Mounted on the 
>backside of the rear seat area.
>
>

Yes.  Put one in the back of my '72 C/S a couple of years ago.  You need to
cut a hole in the well liner to install.  GM used to have the speaker grill
in the parts book when I got mine, had to paint it black.  Stock speaker goes
on the passenger side.  If I remember right there's also a hole in the
sheetmetal to mount one on the drivers side as well.  I think the sound
quality is pretty good with the top up.  Only get sound from the front
speaker when the top's down (who didn't know that?) but with all the wind
noise and such I doubt it wouldn matter if you could hear the rear speaker.

Paul

------------------------------

From: Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 23:17:20 -0300
Subject: Re: The New Guy

Art,

Welcome to the group!

I can't answer any of your questions but here's a friendly hello anyway.

Good Luck on the Calais...

Regards,
Mike


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Michael R. Hall                            Ortonville, Michigan
E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com
Owner: 1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
Owner: 1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...
Owner: 1994 GMC Sonoma Club Coupe SLS Pickup.
         Brought to you by a Apple Power Macintosh 7100/80
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 22:44:16 -0300
Subject: Lifter preload... 

Can anybody send me some directions on how to adjust the lifter preload on my
403 (in the car...)  I think I have a valve hanging up (not fully closing due
to a poor valve job) ) and would like to adjust the valve train using the
shim stock (in .010 increments) that was mentioned earlier.  I understand
that you have to shim both the intake and exhaust, but it is much cheaper
than Mondello's goodies... Thanks in advance Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 22:44:14 -0300
Subject: 403 Update... 

Great news! For anybody who has seen my 79 Cutlass on Bryce's page or
followed some of my letters:  Today I ran 13.990s @ 96.99mph at Numidea
Raceway (near Bloomsburg Pa).  This is an improvement over last years best
time of 14.140s @ 94.91mph at Englishtown NJ (which is a quicker track than
Numidea).  All I wanted to do was break into the 13's, and today I finally
did it.  Keep in mind that my 403 still has the original heads, crank,
pistons, and rods!

Moral to the story:    I was really concerned that the 3" pipes would hurt
the car instead of help it (especially since I am running Edelbrocks
performer cam...)  I also installed a Crane Hi-6 ignition box with a PS-92
coil, and indexed the plugs.  It looks like the combo worked though!  Tom
Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 22:44:15 -0300
Subject: Food for thought update... 

I have solved the problem of melting the the distrib cap on my 79.  It turns
out that the stock carbon brush has over 6000 ohms of resistance, which is
like sending the current of the coil though about 10' of spark plug wire.  I
replaced it with Accel's 'low resistance carbon brush'  which has 0 ohms of
resistance (similiar to replacing it with a solid piece of copper with out
the radio noise...).  I put about 300 miles on the car on the way to and from
the track and the cap was fine... Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 23:43:10 -0300
Subject: found #6A heads

Hey, stopped by Padnos Friday, what should I find but an engine with those
elusive #6A heads, which the man sold me for cheap, as I promised to bring the
block, etc. back. Haven't had time to dismnatle them totally yet, but so far,
we have a 307 [5.0L] with roller cam, the 'A5' aluminum 4V intake with
scrawny ports, and those funky xst manifolds made of welded tubular steel. No
wonder the headers can't be found for the 7A heads... funny little xst ports!

The 75 H/O scheduled to be picked up today, many delays, as other posts
detail...

- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: adal@earthlink.net (J.A. Limon)
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 00:34:25 -0300
Subject: Re: parts needed 

>At 01:27 AM 5/4/96 -0300, you wrote:
>>I'm looking for the right rear brake light lens and a vertical
>>weatherstrip, between passenger & driver, for a 1970 Delta 88 Custom. Any
>>leads?
>>
>>
>Yes, found this in Hemmings:
>
>Taillights and lenses, 1961-68 Olds, excellent to NOS condition.
>213-478-9020, CA.
>
>I know the ad only says to 1968, but you might give them a call to see if
>they can help...
>--
>Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
>dpauliso@metrolink.net


Thanks for the tip I'll pursue it..... AL

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 00:44:30 -0300
Subject: Re: Factory Mags for a 1st gen. Toronado? 

In a message dated 96-05-05 19:51:17 EDT, you write:

>Yeah, it's got the factory aluminum wheels, all in good shape."  ...as he
takes a drag from his dope pipe!

Bob,

I also have some factory "blue dot" tail light lenses for a 69 Toronado.  (:

I'd have to say this guy needs his meds to be re-titrated! Ask him to put a
magnet on the wheel and see if it sticks! I'll bet the ranch that it does!
Even if they made an aluminum wheel for a Generation 1 Toro (which .."the
factory didn't") I would never use them. Your lucky the steel wheel stays
together much less one made out of soda cans!

Greg

------------------------------

From: adal@earthlink.net (J.A. Limon)
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 00:49:26 -0300
Subject: Re: parts needed 

>>I'm looking for the right rear brake light lens and a vertical
>>weatherstrip, between passenger & driver, for a 1970 Delta 88 Custom. Any
>>leads?
>
>Mine's Rough, but it's there,  a bit melted, as I recall.  What weatherstrip
>are you after?  I've still got plenty of 70 Delta parts, but there are two
>individuals in line for some of them already.  I still need to confer with
>them.  Sounds like the grill and header panel are gone, now, too.  :)
>
>
>      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
>      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
>      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
>      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
>      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
>             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)


The weatherstrip is the chrome/rubber strip that goes verticaly between a 4
doors front and rear window - where the roof pillar would be.  Thanks for
your R.S.V.P.

Al

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 01:10:13 -0300
Subject: It's Dead!

Fired the new engine up, what, Thursday, right? When I went to pre-lube it,
this time WITH the external oil cooler & filter attached, but the gage line not
connected, I plugged the gage line hole with a finger. Stopped pumping when oil
reached there. Took finger off- spews oil. Wait a few sec's, still spews oil.
Wait a couple min's STILL spews oil. This is at the front left of the engine,
usual OP sensor spot, right where the low-oil-p-kill switch goes that is to
kill ignition in event of lo/no oil pressure. The significance of these facts
will soon be eminently clear.

Broke in the cam. Racing scheduled for Sunday. Figured a few street miles would
be good for a break-in. New shift lite works great; tested it with the 3000 rpm
chip. Agreed  to let brother drive it to work Saturday, I'd use it a bit
Friday. Cool, life is good, no, great, that cam is rowdy! Cross-drilled crank,
polished rods, balanced... Never mind that little incident last week where the
#1-2 rod bearings were eaten; all fixed now!

Friday: Graduation ceremony tonight... Go to Padnos early, "65 AA" trans is
gone, but the elusive 6A heads engine is there... cool. Didn't break the truck
loading it. Cool. Wife dispatches me to get a cold 12-pak of Coke for the small
grad'n party. No prob, off to Meijer's, oooops, whole soda cooler is
dismantled, party store has every brand of BEER cold, but no Coke [hint,
hint...]

Decide, after 3 stores, to settle for a warm 12-pack, chill it myself, go get
check... Jump on highway... strange rumble, like a driveshaft... Here's my
exit... BANG! Slide, SCRAPE...... Shit! Keep it relatively straight, end up
between the exit and the highway, kissed a barrel of sand, look over to see the
LR wheel roll past, headed downhill. The significance of this is not lost on
me; I RUN after it, catch it soon. Good Samaritan offers a ride into
civilization. Graduation is now about 4 hrs away. Bent the 1/4 panel pretty
good. broke off 3/5 studs on the LH axle. Wheel's OK, if lost the center cap.
Call the wrecker at H&H, owner of a sweet 68 W30... $90 later, the car is at my
house again.

Press on, entertain guests, go to graduation, skate early. Back home, brother
has started on the studs already. Apparently there are no fewer than 754
different styles of wheel studs. We get it jerry-rigged for OK use about 11 pm,
decide to test-cruise it down to the local hangout. Meet some folks, inquire
about wheel studs, show off the virgin motor, etc. It looks good. Runs great.
Sticky tires. Head home, stop for fuel, the brothas admire the car, they want
one that sounds like that... I bet they *do*...

Take off, go down a not so main street with stop signs... 3rd one, we're
accellerating, not TOO much, I glance down, see ZERO oil pressure. Can't
believe it, is this the gage that's not hooked up? No, that temp gage shows
normal... then I smell the oil. "Shut her down, John, oil gage line musta come
off" We cruise to a halt. Inspect. Huh, no oil here, none here, uh-oh, the
bottom RH of the engine... Blew the line off the remote filter/ cooler adapter,
pumped all 7 qts onto the header. AAAAARGH! [Wondering why the OP switch did
not kill the engine..... relevance of location is now clear] Get ride home with
a drunk, get truck, come back, forgot jack & rags, back home, back to car. Jack
it up, install hose, limp home.

Well, almost. 2 blocks later, the hose blows off AGAIN. Not good, for a race
car. Why this never happened in the driveway is beyond me... Again, jack it up,
put the hose on, tighten clamp with socket set this time... add oil AGAIN.
Seems fine, starts, runs, has pressure. Cool. Go home, wash up. I suggest that
brother forget driving it tomorrow, he says nah, it's fine now. OK.

Saturday, car is gone when I get up. I start the 6-store fiasco to obtain a set
of rear wheel studs, nuts, washers that will fit & work.... Gee, 12:30, no car
yet... The call: Need help, car no workee. Began to heat, lost oil pressure on
the highway about 10mi from here. Off to the rescue....

Starter turns it, but barely. Wrench test show it ain't just a bad battery
either. Off to the farm to shag the wrecker to shag the car to my house.
Wrecker of course needs an hour's work 1st...

Daily good news: stopped by & picked up a pristine 68 black dashboard on the
way back in... Got a set of std size main bearings [*only* $60- going back
Monday!] to fit the reserve crank in if necessary...

Go to the car, wait for wrecker, start to dismantle the 6A-heads engine
meanwhile. Tow the car home, pull the engine, this time we are able to turn it
enough to get tork converter off... Good. Drain oil, gee it smells... burned!?
Engine is sson out, on the stand again. remove the oil pan, oh, no, large
chunks of metal in the oil...
  And, the whole 1-2 mains section and 1-2 rod journals, rods, etc. are the
loveliest shades of BLUE!  "Roont" is the technical term, I believe. Even
heated 2 of the 3 main cap girdles to blue. Jeez. I'm thinking that this block
is cursed at this point.
   Cam, heads, etc. are salvageable, but the cross-drilled & balanced crank
ass'y is literally toasted. Not sure if I have enough rods left to make a 425
out of it again.

In order to get the owner racing ASAP, we reinstall the old legendary 66 Toro
engine. Fresh oil, *NO* external oil cooler/ filter.

The car owner is very understanding. Lucky me.

Oh, and, to add to the fun, I lost my wedding ring, presumably in the
street-repair of the Oil Line From Hell. :(

It was *SO GOOD* when it was running... It will rise from the ashes, perhaps as
a 455 this time. Depends on parts availability... Speaking of which... Gues
what the owner has access to, possibly? Seems a friend owes him like $1500, and
has & has to get rid of.... a '70 Toro GT, whole car! So, I told him to tell
the friend, to pay what he owes, fork over the car... We'll use the engine,
I'll part out the body, keep costs down.

Spoke to owner today... Got 66 Toro engine in & squared away, towed it to
Detroit Dragway, just in time for the rain to start & the track to close.
Perfect ending to a perfect fiasco. Can this really be happening? At least it's
runnable for next Sat's festivities...

Advice/ comments/ consolations will be greatly appreciated. How much of this am
I supposed to eat? I bit the $200 bill on the 1st snafu, cuz *I* neglected to
ensure adequate oil upon startup... but, the wheel could've happened anytime.
And the hose thing... I dunno. Never had one come off before. It was
double-clamped when it left Saturday morning...  Yes, after the 1st snafu, the
whole engine was dismatled, cleaned, blasted with car wash spray, even the oil
galleries and the entire remote cooler/ filter/ hoses stuffs. Oil pump
dismantled, whole 9 yards, even NEW lifters.

Hatin' Life...
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* After Burner
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 20:04:34 -0300
Subject: Re: Rear Speakers (WAS: Re: Here she is... Miss America)

PHartlieb@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 96-05-04 20:37:15 EDT, you write:
> 
> >I think the car in question was a convertible, so that won't do. I know
> >that those converts had a rear speaker option that (as I recall) fired
> >towards the rear end of the car, probably not ideal. Mounted on the
> >backside of the rear seat area.
> >
> >
> 
> My 1968 convertible has the two openings in the rear at the top well and makes a good place for 6x9 speakers.  As everyone has learned, the 
top down performance is not so good.

There is a place in the front for an improvement for your stock speakers 
and it isn't in the doors.  A car with vents on the floor can have the 
ducts blocked and speakers put behind the grills and no one knows.  Air 
cars can just use the vent grills as speaker grills.

There is even a speaker grill used by Camaro/Firebird/big cars that 
mounted on the air conditioned kick panels for speakers when a stereo 8 
track was ordered.  Mine has these.

This does wonders for the front, but I don't know what to do about the 
rear with the top down unless you want to use the big car grills of that 
era mounted in the rear arm rests.  I have some grills, but I bet they 
are hard to find now.

Bill

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 02:05:34 -0300
Subject: Re: It's Dead! 

In a message dated 96-05-06 00:20:27 EDT, you write:

>And the hose thing... I dunno. Never had one come off before. It was
>double-clamped when it left Saturday morning...  

Chris,

Jeeze, and I thought I had a bad weekend! My motor problems pale in
comparison to yours.

Forgive me for being blunt here, as I have nowhere near the motor knowledge
you and the others have, but.......if I went through all that work initially
(especially on a race car) and knew what the car was going to endure, knowing
that oil is the engines blood basically, why do you use a silly 75 cent clamp
on such a potentially disaster causing failure situation? Why aren't you
using special hoses with threads and fittings along with seals and retainers?
It almost sounds as silly to me as those who use a rubber fuel line between
the fuel pump and carb!!!! You are ASKING for trouble...IMHO. 

If those are too expensive or are not an available part, make one out of
heavy guage large bore break line! Flange the ends, make couplings...end of
story.....no more oil failure! Do the same thing that is done with the tranny
fluid coolers on the early Toros. You don't see a rubber line there do ya?

I feel a bit awkward giving you advice, but it seems like an obviuos solution
to me. Let me know if I am off base on my rationale here.....keep in mind I
am only trying to help..... not accusing you of poor Oldsmobiling!  (:

Greg K

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 02:23:23 -0300
Subject: Re: Factory Mags for a 1st gen. Toronado? 

In a message dated 96-05-05 19:51:17 EDT, you write:

>And while we're on the topic, *are* there any factory aluminum/aftermarket
>rims that will fit the first-generation Toro? And do the second-generation
>rims ('71-'77) fit the first-generation cars?
>
>

Bob0ToroVirus,

Forgot to reply to this part!

Well, you already know my thoughts on aluminum wheels on Toros (gen 1 & 2).
Sure, 71-78 rims will fit 66-70. But, there are more disk brake offset wheels
around in the later years....but thats OK. They will also fit. They just
don't have the same wide apperance profile. 

Greg Kalkhoff

------------------------------

From: Bob Valentine <ravalent@liii.com>
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 02:46:12 -0300
Subject: Cursed Weekend?

Looking at everyone else's weekend events, looks like I got away pretty 
good.  ;^)

Friday:  Clean up the '71 to suitably impress new girlfriend.   Decide 
carb needs cleaning.  Hit with some 2+2, and I as I fire it up, *POP* big 
ol' backfire thru the carb.  Oh well, one more Holley power valve bites 
the dust.    Yank bowl, replace power valve.  Find that I'm all out of 
Holley gaskets.   Proceed to make one from gasket material.  Of course, 
the first attempt leaks.   2nd try works.

Car runs just fine all evening.   Amazing.  Go to drop off impressed 
girlfriend.  Pull up, shut off ignition.   Motor stays running.  Uh-oh.
G/f *NOT* impressed when I open hood to pull juice wire to MSD 6A.

Get home.  Spend until 5am to finally figure out that the MSD box is 
backfeeding to the rest of the car.  Proceed to put back normal GM HEI 
module.   

Saturday Afternoon (slept all day):  Hop in car to go to 7-11.  Thing 
breaks up whenever I give it gas.  Swap <blown?> Holley.  No difference.  
Hmmm...  Put MSD back in.  No difference.  Change HEI module.  No 
difference.  Yep, the pickup went intermittent.   ;^>

Replace distributor body crusty spare from the parts pile.  Take out for 
test run - 2 cylinders not firing.  Limp home, find one plug is oil 
fouled (!), and the terminal in the cap for the #5 cylinder broken off.   

Drove the spare '83 Delta 88 (307) Saturday night.

Sunday Afternoon:

New plugs, new cap, new rotor.   Runs fine.

Lesson Learned:

When 3 things go bad in your ignition at once, you're screwed!

Next year, I'm marking this weekend as Olds-Off-Limits.


                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                    --> ravalent@liii.com  <--
        "Experience varies directly with equipment ruined"

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 04:05:44 -0300
Subject: Re: It's Dead! 

>Advice/ comments/ consolations will be greatly appreciated.
>Hatin' Life...
>--
>Chris  B. Witt         *the* After Burner
>wittchri@pilot.msu.edu
>
     OUCH!   This one tops that April fool's bit for making us cringe!  So,
umm, uh, I guess... Congrats on graduating, at least?!
(I hope ~that~ went OK for you!!!)

     Good luck!
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 04:05:47 -0300
Subject: Re: It's Dead! 

>In a message dated 96-05-06 00:20:27 EDT, you write:
>
>>And the hose thing... I dunno. Never had one come off before. It was
>>double-clamped when it left Saturday morning...  
>
>Chris,
>
>Jeeze, and I thought I had a bad weekend! My motor problems pale in
>comparison to yours.
>
>Forgive me for being blunt here, as I have nowhere near the motor knowledge
>you and the others have, but.......if I went through all that work initially
>(especially on a race car) and knew what the car was going to endure, knowing
>that oil is the engines blood basically, why do you use a silly 75 cent clamp
>on such a potentially disaster causing failure situation? Why aren't you
>using special hoses with threads and fittings along with seals and retainers?
>It almost sounds as silly to me as those who use a rubber fuel line between
>the fuel pump and carb!!!! You are ASKING for trouble...IMHO. 
     Yeah, I suppose it's just like those aftermarket transcoolers (you
know, the ones that cost $30000, but come with 15 cent clamps!)  It's one of
those deals where the reasoning of "if it aint broke..." seems to fit.
There's not a very high failure rate to be concerned with, but it only takes
one disaster to change that fact.  If I were to be doing it (now) I imagine
I'd want all steel line with double flared ISO (I think that's what they're
called) fittings, because they wouldn't go anywhere.  HOWEVER, if I were to
do one of these before hearing this horror story, you can believe I'd have
used them crappy clamps too!  I guess it takes a swift kick in the ass
sometimes...  Live and learn... (and cuss and bleed on the way!)
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: proietto@dow.on.doe.ca (Proietto, F.)
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 18:40:00 -0300
Subject: Re: It's Dead!

Hey Chris don't feel too bad. Just think this will never happen to you 
again...right? That's what I always say to myself, but we all know better 
....ehemmmmmm....?


I got a major screw up story too. You want to here it, or are we all 
screw-up storied out?




Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: Susan Pitts <stp8n@virginia.edu>
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 10:10:00 -0300 
Subject: Re: Here she is... Miss America

and was intrigued about something - I'm the proud (if occasionally troubled)
>owner of a 69 Cutlass S convertible
>I love music, too, and I'm trying to figure out what to do.  I have the
>where else could they be installed?  Any advice?
>
>Many thanks!
>
For what it's worth, the last posting I've read this am is the most
practical for me.  We installed a nice Pioneer (?) tape/AM/FM and hooked it
up to that wonderful front speaker and added two rear speakers (truck
speakers with an extra wire) which sit on the rear seat.  The sound with the
top down is incredible.  (Interstate speeds with great sound...almost rare
in convertibles.)  I purchased the speakers at Circuit City in Richmond,
Virginia and I'll find out exactly what they are and what system I have and
let you know.  Of course, driving over the mountain at Monticello I do have
to turn it off and listen to the motor purr....the most beautiful music I
know!!!

Somewhere my Dad has the original radio which is nice to have, but I didn't
mind the new system at all.  I simply park the car, unhook the wires and
store speakers in the trunk when not needed.  The wires in the back seat
slide nice between the seat.  You'd never know I had the speakers back
there!  I just couldn't allow any one to cut the car to add speakers in the
back, so this was my solution.  Whatever you decide, hope you enjoy it.

AND for all those responding to the Miss America part...I found the internet
address of a person collecting memorabilia for the anniversary pagent and I
await her response for my confirmation!!

Susan Pitts -- stp8n@virginia.edu
'70 Cutlass Supreme Convertible - "RGTP DAY"
'87 442

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 10:08:40 -0300
Subject: Re: It's Dead! 

In a message dated 96-05-06 08:45:00 EDT, you write:

>Hey Chris don't feel too bad. Just think this will never happen to you 
>again...right? That's what I always say to myself, but we all know better 
>....ehemmmmmm....?
>
>I got a major screw up story too. You want to here it, or are we all 
>screw-up storied out?

Well, I see a couple different types of posts on this list:

1) "Hey, does anyone have _____, or know where I can get one?"
2) "Hey, I've got a ______, does anyone want to buy it?"
3) "Hey, do you know if I can put a _____ in my _____ without too much
trouble?
4) "Hey, did Oldsmobile ever ______?"
5) "OK, here's a chart showing _______."

and my personal favorite, 

6) "I was driving down the street the other day, and all of a sudden..."

Posts 1 through 5 serve for the exchange of information, whereas type 6
serves to generate sympathy. And keeps others from making the same mistakes,
or shows them how to get the most out of a situation.

And let's face it, sometimes we are more in need of sympathy than
information!

So tell us what happened...

------------------------------

From: postmaster@mke.ab.com
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 10:38:32 -0300
Subject: [none]



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From: postmaster@mke.ab.com
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 10:38:39 -0300
Subject: [none]



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From: postmaster@mke.ab.com
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 10:39:52 -0300
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From: postmaster@mke.ab.com
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 10:44:18 -0300
Subject: [none]



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From: postmaster@mke.ab.com
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 10:44:10 -0300
Subject: [none]



------------------------------

From: Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 20:16:04 -0300
Subject: What's she worth?

Well,

It's time to say goodbye to a good friend...

My Cutlass is up For Sale as last years calamities at the house is 
starting to take their toll. After a new roof, furnace and water softener 
soaked 12 grand out of our budget last year (unplanned, I might add), I 
need to liquidate an asset to get the budget back on track.

The big question, considering the modifications and condition, opinions 
on a asking price from the group here would be most helpful. For those 
who haven't seen it, the car is on the Bryceman's web page for an 
in-depth look.

With no great surprise, my significant other is totally against selling 
the car. She knows what my Oldsmobiles mean to me and how hard I work to 
afford the things we have, including my toys. I know, I know, I am very 
fortunate to have a wife who has thoughts and attitudes such as these. I 
know that there are a more than a few of you out there in CyberSpace who 
are envious and a few who can totally relate... To you single guys, yes, 
there are gals out there who are "OK" with us gearhead types. Choose your 
mates wisely, give her a good living and you will receive like in return.

Good Evening,
Mike


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Michael R. Hall                            Ortonville, Michigan
E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com
Owner: 1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
Owner: 1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...
Owner: 1994 GMC Sonoma Club Coupe SLS Pickup.
         Brought to you by a Apple Power Macintosh 7100/80
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

------------------------------

From: postmaster@mke.ab.com
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 10:43:19 -0300
Subject: [none]



------------------------------

From: clark@sh28.dseg.ti.com (Pat Clark 952-3776)
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 10:42:27 -0300
Subject: I lied on HEI last post

	Well, I took Bob Handren's advice and returned the Mallory Unilite
distributor and went looking for a HEI. After numerous junkyards and dist. with
busted shafts I finally got a nice unit off of a 74 Delta (it even had a tach
so I got the tach wire plug in). After getting it home and looking at it (first
HEI I have ever really looked at) I have a couple of questions. First, is this 
whole thing really fed by one wire? (I know it is, I just hadda ask).Second,
I don't use my stock coil anymore because its built into the HEI cap now right?
Third, does the unit ground itself to the block by contact? If so I probably
won't use the o-ring that seals my old points dist at the block because that
would eliminate my ground right? Couple more, bear with me now! Can I hook my
rally pac tach feed straight into the tach outlet on the side of the HEI? If
you hold the body of the HEI in one hand and grab the drive shaft in the other
I get about .05 -.1 of *axial* motion. Is this acceptable? (seems like it would
be). Last question, Just to test this thing out before I go patching in wires
and disconnecting others, can I just swap in the HEI and run the hot wire 
straight to the + battery post to test it out? Will it hurt to drive it around the block a few times like this?

	On a note of more interest to somebody out there in the Dallas area.
They have a 59 Dynamic 88? in AL's Pick U Part in south Dallas. It is at the
end of the OLDS rows. Looks like the entire car is still there. Also saw a 84?
(Andy G's old body style) 442 at BI-LO PICK _U_PART in S. Dallas. Looked like
most of the 442 specific trim was gone but who knows (seats still had a lot of
chrome trim around them). Didn't ask about the wheels, maybe I should have!

You guys that have made the HEI swap get back to me on the above questions, 
especially the one about the o-ring.

Thanks,


          ___              ___        _________
         /   |            /   |      /         \
        /    |           /    |     |   ___    |
       /     |          /     |     |__|   |   |
      /      |         /      |           /   /   
     /       |        /       |          /   /   
    /   /|   |       /   /|   |         /   /
   /   /_|   |__    /   /_|   |__      /   /
  |             |  |             |    /   /
  |______     __|  |______     __|   /   /_____
         |   |            |   |     |          |      Pat Clark
         |___|            |___|     |__________|       69 442
						      400/400

   "Just your average 300+hp garage hogging, gas sucking, money pit"

------------------------------

From: postmaster@mke.ab.com
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 10:49:03 -0300
Subject: [none]



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From: postmaster@mke.ab.com
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 10:53:55 -0300
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From: postmaster@mke.ab.com
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 10:53:39 -0300
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From: postmaster@mke.ab.com
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 10:54:53 -0300
Subject: [none]



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From: postmaster@mke.ab.com
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 10:54:58 -0300
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From: postmaster@mke.ab.com
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 10:54:14 -0300
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Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 10:53:33 -0300
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From: postmaster@mke.ab.com
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 11:00:25 -0300
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Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 10:59:03 -0300
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From: postmaster@mke.ab.com
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 10:58:46 -0300
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Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 11:03:30 -0300
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Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 11:04:07 -0300
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From: postmaster@mke.ab.com
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 11:04:12 -0300
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From: postmaster@mke.ab.com
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 11:04:18 -0300
Subject: [none]



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From: proietto@dow.on.doe.ca (Proietto, F.)
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 20:13:40 -0300
Subject: Re: It's Dead!

>In a message dated 96-05-06 08:45:00 EDT, you write:
>
>>Hey Chris don't feel too bad. Just think this will never happen to you 
>>again...right? That's what I always say to myself, but we all know better 
>>....ehemmmmmm....?
>>
>>I got a major screw up story too. You want to here it, or are we all 
>>screw-up storied out?
>
>Well, I see a couple different types of posts on this list:
>
>1) "Hey, does anyone have _____, or know where I can get one?"
>2) "Hey, I've got a ______, does anyone want to buy it?"
>3) "Hey, do you know if I can put a _____ in my _____ without too much
>trouble?
>4) "Hey, did Oldsmobile ever ______?"
>5) "OK, here's a chart showing _______."
>
>and my personal favorite, 
>
>6) "I was driving down the street the other day, and all of a sudden..."
>
>Posts 1 through 5 serve for the exchange of information, whereas type 6
>serves to generate sympathy. And keeps others from making the same mistakes,
>or shows them how to get the most out of a situation.
>
>And let's face it, sometimes we are more in need of sympathy than
>information!
>
>So tell us what happened...
>


Well since you asked...Along the same lines as Chris, engine oil everywhere 
but in the pan type of story.

One beautiful weekend, (you know we do get these types of days here in 
Onatrio, Canada), we decide to take a trip to Niagra Falls. I was estatic, 
not because we get to see the big water fall, but I get to take the Olds (my 
'72 442). Something that I always wanted to do. A long highway trip where 
the Olds can really show it's stuff and a little gragging rites for me since 
I built the thinh ground up. The traditional cruise. Anyway, in honour of 
the occasion I decided to change the oil and filter. Such a trip, I wanted 
the car to perform as it's best. Nothing but the best, 20W50 Castrol and a 
new filter. Well, that morning off to Canadian Tire (Canadaina version of 
all you need type of automotive and hardware store). Grab the oil myself and 
thinking, should I go to the parts counter and ask for the oil filter number 
or just look it up myself. Oh no, I know what I want why should a snot-nosed 
student tell me what I need. Proceed to look up the part in the conviently 
placed booklet for oil filters. Hmmm. lets see model Oldsmobile....make 
Cutlass (same as 442 in '72)....engine...350...year .....hmmm book says all 
68-76 orange engines or all 74-78 engines. I didn't know oldsmobile made 
orange engines, can't be. Who every made this booklet obviously doesn't know 
oldsmobiles like me. We all know oldsmobile never made any orange engines. 
Must be a mistake, CH%VY getting in the way again. 

Get home, it's 1:00 pm. Have lunch and by now a few relatives arrive to join 
us to Niagra Falls. Well, my cousin, the male counter part, begins to say, 
lets go with the K-car it's got air. I say no way, lets go with the olds, 
it's cooler. The olds gets chosen, because I think even he wanted to be seen 
cooler than to feel colder. It's decided. Jack the car, drain oil. Pull the 
oil filter and quickly install the new one. Add oil. 5 litres later it's 
done. A quick look at a spark plug and it's done. Lets go. Car still on the 
jack I start the car and notice oil presure. But a second later the needle 
drops to zero, just like yours did Chris. One more second later and I hear 
belowing from the front of the garage. My cousin muttering something about a 
mess. Your crazy I said. Then the smoke starts. Well, then I had an 
inclination as to what he was yelling about. Quickly shut off the car. Open 
the door and..whatch it theres oil everywhere. Hop out and check underneath. 
Oil spuing out the filter. What now, I said in disgust. My cousin in the 
backgroud procrastinating somethong about I told you we should I taken the 
K-car. A few dozen rags later and the Exxon Valdez spill is cleaned up. Now 
what. I remove the oil filter and loe and behold, it's different from the 
one I had. The housing was identical but the oil seal was much larger in 
diameter. In effect I had no seal when I installed it, hence the spill. We 
take he K-car. No-way!. Hop in the other car and down to Cnadaian tire with 
the wrong filter I go. Get there start bitching to the parts guy how their 
booklet is incorrect. He not knowing what the hell I was yelling about calls 
the manager. I expalin what happened, and show him that his stores books 
were incorrect with the filter codes. He denies it so  I challenge him to 
look up the code on micro fiche. A red-face later, his face, he appologises 
and offers to replace the filter free of charge but not the oil. His 
arguement was that when you do-it-yourselfers do this you are supposed to 
make sure evrything that goes on matches what came off. Well he's got a 
point. Take the new filter and more oil back home. Everyone a little cheesed 
by now but I don't care I got to have this car running before we leave. 
3:00pm now, car still on jacks. 2 minutes later the car is running and all 
is fine.

So you see the moral of this story is thus: Change your oil the day before!!

P.S. We did take the olds that day to Niagra Falls. It was great. Rooling 
down the highwayall windows open, like it should be. Once there I must have 
received a dozen compliments on the olds. Made the passengers feel cool too, 
without any air conditioning to boot.




Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: postmaster@mke.ab.com
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 11:13:38 -0300
Subject: [none]



------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 10:14:54 -0300
Subject: Re: It's Dead! 

>This is at the front left of the engine,
>usual OP sensor spot, right where the low-oil-p-kill switch goes that is to
>kill ignition in event of lo/no oil pressure. The significance of these facts
>will soon be eminently clear.

[...tale of woe deleted...]

To answer Fernando's question, yes, this is the kind of writing we need more
of around here, sort of a cross between "Been there, done that" and "there 
but for the grace of God go I." Bring on those stories!

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Susan Pitts <stp8n@virginia.edu>
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 11:26:49 -0300 
Subject: Re: What's she worth?

>Well,
>It's time to say goodbye to a good friend...
>My Cutlass is up For Sale as last years calamities at the house is 
>starting to take their toll. 
>With no great surprise, my significant other is totally against selling 
>the car. She knows what my Oldsmobiles mean to me and how hard I work to 
>afford the things we have, including my toys. I know, I know, I am very 
>fortunate to have a wife who has thoughts and attitudes such as these. I 
>know that there are a more than a few of you out there in CyberSpace who 
>are envious and a few who can totally relate... To you single guys, yes, 
>there are gals out there who are "OK" with us gearhead types. Choose your 
>mates wisely, give her a good living and you will receive like in return.
>
>

MIKE, even the wife is against it and you really should listen to her.
She's got good sense!! Eat peanut butter sandwiches for awhile.  Hey, the
kraft macaroni and cheese is good too.  I think you can get a few boxes for
$1.  As I told my mother who adores her '90 300 ZX when she decided to sell
it a few weeks ago, "The only joy you really get is when you are behind the
wheel of it, when you feel the power and can roll down the windows crank the
Bose up and feel the wind in your hair."  Mike, she found a way and you can
too!  

**From another wife who chose her mate wisely last June and hasn't regretted
a single moment!  But if either of us sold our cars, the divorce papers
might arrive next!  DON'T SELL!! It could be the end of a great thing!  

Isn't the network here for us to talk you out of silly decisions like
selling Oldsmobiles?  I know you didn't ask for advice on selling, but just
remember when it's gone...it's gone.  Sell the pickup first!
Susan Pitts -- stp8n@virginia.edu
'70 Cutlass Supreme Convertible - "RGTP DAY"
'87 442

------------------------------

From: Susan Pitts <stp8n@virginia.edu>
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 11:29:37 -0300
Subject: Re: What's she worth? 

MIke and everyone else, ignore the message.  I see your message from 4/29
arrived this 5/6 am at 10:26 on my computer.  I thought you had changed your
mind rather quickly since I just read you were keeping the car earlier this
am.  So, glad you listened to my advice (ha! ha!) and I'll check dates on
messages better next time!  See ya'

Susan Pitts -- stp8n@virginia.edu
'70 Cutlass Supreme Convertible - "RGTP DAY"
'87 442

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 12:17:25 -0300
Subject: Re: Cursed Weekend?/It's Dead!

Man, I thought I had a bad day... it pales next to Chris' story in 
particular. Not to beat the astrology thing to death, but you guys 
wouldn't be Leos, would you? :)

Never having built an engine, or never even having done major internal 
engine work, I can't imagine how you must feel. I should go back and 
re-read the whole thing again, cuz I'm still unsure whether the hose 
blowoff was the whole problem, or why the bearings let go the first time, 
or why the switch didn't kill the engine when there was no OP. Greater 
minds than mine are at work here though, so I'll try to figure it all out.

To Chris:
Congrats on the graduation too, BTW... glad we didn't cause you to flunk 
out like was feared last winter. Mebbe you should do the IRC thing on 
Thursday if you can.  

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 12:26:03 -0300
Subject: Re: The New Guy

On Sun, 5 May 1996, Alf Reibel wrote:
> there could answer a few questions.  I am starting to restore my wife's '84
> Cutlass Calais (Buick v-6, T-tops,HD Suspension, etc.).  It's in good shape
> overall with one major exception-MAJOR Rust in the rear frame sections
> directly behind the rear wheels. I don't want to just scab it up with
> plates, so here goes-
> 1) My preference is to swap the frame with a rust free one.  I know it's a
> lot of work, but I want it right the first time. (And I have done a similar
> swap with my '81 Dodge truck).  I'm not too familiar with GM's body/frame
> construction,and was wondering what years/models might be possible donors?

I'm unsure how this would be done, but every now and then I see one of 
these or it's corporate twin advertised in the paper here with the 
reference "new rear frame section" or something similar. The way they 
read it almost sounds like GM makes a repair piece just for this purpose, 
otherwise there must be a lot of cutting, welding and bolting involved. 
Might be worth a call to the nearest helpful Olds or GM dealer. It's at 
least plausible that they might make a repair piece, since these are 
known to have a serious rust problem in that area, especially the later 
models.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 12:27:19 -0300
Subject: Re: It's Dead! 

At 18.40 05,05,96 -0300, you wrote:
>Hey Chris don't feel too bad. Just think this will never happen to you 
>again...right? That's what I always say to myself, but we all know better 
>....ehemmmmmm....?
>
>
>I got a major screw up story too. You want to here it, or are we all 
>screw-up storied out?
>
>
>

give it to us

>
>Regards
>Fernando Proietto
>
>
>
      ___
     /. .\
    _\_*_/_                     -<Buddha>-
   / /   \ \                   Buddha@itw.com
   \_\___/_/            HTTP://www2.itw.com/~buddha/
  /___\_/___\ "That which does not kill us makes us stronger"
 *************

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 16:33:56 -0300
Subject: Return of the Wirehead

Well, 2300 miles and 1 wedding later...

Got in a 4:30 this morning.  You haven't lived until you've driven 19 
hours straight with a 2 year old granddaughter.  What a trip.  Now that 
that's over with, maybe I can start spending money on the Toro again.  If 
I have any left.   :(

        (Editor's note: Since Chloe actually likes the
              Toronado, this qualifies as Olds related)

So now I've got a least another 19 hours going through the 171 messages 
siting on the server.  This is giving me a whole new prespective on the 
message traffic.  Most of the postings are actually about Oldsmobiles! 
...with the next largest group from those complaining about posting that 
are NOT about Oldsmobiles.  Hmmmm....

Have to agree with Peg and Andy, a few stories and a little banter can't 
hurt.  Wouldn't want to be confused with the Canadian DMV.

WHEELS:
Greg K is right.  They're all steel.  Silver or chrome but ferrous metal 
none the less.  Wouldn't mind hearing about aftermarket wheels, though.  
Maybe some of those one's that stick out about two feet:

                       How wide is that Toro??????    :o 

GAS:
Noticed the Linc*ln was getting over 100 mpg coming down the mountains in 
PA.  Of course, I WAS going south.    ;)

DOA:
Bummer, Chris!

WELCOME:
Looks great, Greg.  And "Hey" to Alf, Art, and any I missed.

TOM:
Excellent run, man!  Wish I'd know you were at Numidea while I was up in 
State College, I'da swung by.  (I was getting great gas mileage, you 
know)

MISS AMERICA:
Called Robert E. (my dad) who was a Philly Cop back then.  He said the 
story sounded familiar.  The only name he could remember off the top of 
his head was "Frank Ford" (sorry about that, at least he didn't say 
"Ch*vy Chase).  He promised to get back to me if he remembers anything 
else...if he remembers to get back to me.

66 TORO:
Maybe.  Does it run?  Why does he have all those parts and never put them 
in?  But those RECHROMED bumpers are worth a few bob...

SPEAKERS:
Robert is right about low and high frequencies.  You could stash the 
woofers just about anywhere in a convertible.  Since tweeters can be VERY 
small, it shouldn't be too hard to find an unobtrusive location for them. 
BTW: Piezo tweeters have a very high resistance so you can hook up 
several without smoking you amp.  Radio-Shack has some 2 inchers for 5 
bucks.  Cheap enough for an experiment.

Since I've pretty well burnt up half the day, I better getback to earning 
a living.  

Wonder what my ISP is charging for storing all those messages?

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Scott Robert Kietzmann <srobert@csd.uwm.edu>
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 13:48:30 -0300
Subject: 1968 Cutlass For Sale, Milwaukee

Please somebody buy my Cutlass... I would love to see it go to an 
oldsmobile enthusiast!  I am asking $950.00 for it and it is a VERY good 
deal!!  If you live in the Milwaukee area and would like more info, send 
me email.. Or give me a call at 423-1454.  It will be in the May 12th 
Sunday paper for $1,100.00.  So let me know soon!!!

Thanks,

Scott
srobert@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 13:01:30 -0300
Subject: Re: Factory Mags for a 1st gen. Toronado? 

>Odd conversation (he asks my phone #; not too wierd; but also asks my
>address-thorough, I guess- but when he hears my Toro is stored at my
>parent's, he asks *their* address. "Uh, no, you don't need to know that...";
>freaky guy).

Okay, I read the whole posting and it does sound like this guy needs his
Lithium administered with a turkey baster, but I'd guess that the reason
he asked those questions is because his Toro is stored outside, and he
wants to know who's calling him about it in case it's suddenly relieved
of important parts overnight. Maybe he doesn't have Caller ID.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: proietto@dow.on.doe.ca (Proietto, F.)
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 23:11:50 -0300
Subject: Re: I lied on HEI last post

....snipped alot...

> First, is this whole thing really fed by one wire? (I know it is, I just 
hadda ask).


You got it. Make sure is aleast a 12 gauge wire. I think that's the gauge 
everyone was talking about. Please verify ..!



>Second, I don't use my stock coil anymore because its built into the HEI 
cap now right?


Bon-Jovi I think he's got it...


>Third, does the unit ground itself to the block by contact? If so I probably
>won't use the o-ring that seals my old points dist at the block because that
>would eliminate my ground right? 

I believ that's the size of it. However I'm not using a seal and no oil 
leaks yet. Just make sure the surfaces on both the dist and the block are 
clean and reletively smooth for a good seal. If you want to se a seal it 
will be a metal shim washer not a rubber one. If you use a rubber one, if 
you find such a thing, ot to worry about ground since the bolt latch will 
ground it anyway.


Couple more, bear with me now! Can I hook my rally pac tach feed straight 
into the tach outlet on the side of the HEI? 

Not sure on this one. I have a ralley pac tack but not using it. I have a 
Mallory unit that's better, has a shit light with a rev limiter. Not 
original but may serve to protect my engine whivh is more  than the ralley 
can do. But this unit plugs directly into the tach plug on the dist. cap. 
and works well for me.


>If you hold the body of the HEI in one hand and grab the drive shaft in the 
other
>I get about .05 -.1 of *axial* motion. Is this acceptable? (seems like it would
>be). 

Don't know, however ther should be a little play if I recall on mine.


Last question, Just to test this thing out before I go patching in wires
>and disconnecting others, can I just swap in the HEI and run the hot wire 
>straight to the + battery post to test it out? Will it hurt to drive it 
around the block a few times like this?

Don't think so but I don't think you should be worrying about patching 
wires. This upgrade will benefit you tremendously. Just do it. But remeber 
that the weight set up is for a smog controled car. Your car will work with 
the original setup but it will feel a little sluggish. Buy the accel 
re-curve kit. You will notice a big difference. Becareful when putting the 
re-curve you will need to re-set the initial timming as the lighter weights 
will cause the timing to become more advanced. You will here pingging. So 
keep taht in mind.


Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 13:16:06 -0300
Subject: Re: I lied on HEI last post 

>>Second, I don't use my stock coil anymore because its built into the HEI 
>>cap now right?
>
>Bon-Jovi I think he's got it...

Well, that's why the cap is so heavy.  :-)

>>Third, does the unit ground itself to the block by contact? If so I probably
>>won't use the o-ring that seals my old points dist at the block because that
>>would eliminate my ground right? 
>
>I believ that's the size of it.

Ummmmm... no, I believe one of the side contacts on that U-shaped connector
(not the separate end ones for BATT and TACH, but the one that straddles the
underside of the cap _next_ to them, and which you broke the ears off of
when you tried to remove it :-) is the ground for the coil.

>>Couple more, bear with me now! Can I hook my rally pac tach feed straight 
>>into the tach outlet on the side of the HEI? 

I think that's the way it's usually done. I plugged my aftermarket tach
in there.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 16:15:41 -0300
Subject: Re: It's Dead!

At 01:10 AM 5/6/96 -0300, you wrote:

>Advice/ comments/ consolations will be greatly appreciated. How much of this am
>I supposed to eat? 
>Hatin' Life...
>--
>Chris  B. Witt         *the* After Burner


Man, I thought I was havin' problems with my ignition, cooling, etc... 
Sorry to hear about all the bad luck.  Don't have any advice on how
much of that you should eat.  Hope things turn around!

- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

 "I was put on this earth to accomplish a certain number of things;
    right now I'm so far behind, I'll never die"  --Calvin

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 16:15:38 -0300
Subject: Re: parts needed

At 12:49 AM 5/6/96 -0300, you wrote:
vertical
>weatherstrip, between passenger & driver, for a 1970 Delta 88 Custom. Any
>leads?

>The weatherstrip is the chrome/rubber strip that goes verticaly between a 4
>doors front and rear window - where the roof pillar would be.  

Steele Rubber Products has them available new (reproductions!).  Their web
page URL is http://www.steelerubber.com, where you can request a free catalog.

- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

 "I was put on this earth to accomplish a certain number of things;
    right now I'm so far behind, I'll never die"  --Calvin

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 16:34:22 -0300
Subject: HEI  

Pat Clark wrote concerning an HEI conversion:

> First, is this whole thing really fed by one wire? (I know it is, I just
hadda ask)

Well, yes and no. Since the points system uses a start circuit (full 12 V)
and a run circuit (with resistance in line) there will actually be two wires.
 You must replace the resistance wire with a standard wire to ensure a full
12 V at all times.  You end up connecting the start and run wires to the
single connection on the HEI.  So there is only one connection but both
ignition wires on that connection.

>Second, I don't use my stock coil anymore because its built into the HEI cap
now >right?

Right.

>Third, does the unit ground itself to the block by contact? If so I probably
won't use the >o-ring that seals my old points dist at the block because that
would eliminate my >ground right?

Wrong!  That rubber seal is to keep the oil inside the engine.  The body of
the distributor still contacts the block and the hold down clamp and bolt act
as a ground as well.  There's also the cam gear, oil pump shaft, etc.  There
are plenty of places to act as a ground.

>Can I hook my rally pac tach feed straight into the tach outlet on the side
of the HEI?

Yup.  Even my '67 Rally Pac works fine off the "Tach" connection on the HEI.
 I also am running an Olds (Autometer built) tach as well.  No problems.

>If you hold the body of the HEI in one hand and grab the drive shaft in the
other I get >about .05 -.1 of *axial* motion. Is this acceptable? (seems like
it would be).

My HEI's seem tighter than that but I haven't actually tested them.  As long
as the magnets can activate the pickup coil and module it shouldn't matter.  

As noted here earlier, check the mechanical advance weights and make sure
they are free.  (WD-40 to the rescue again!) I'd also suggest buying an
advance kit with new weights and various springs.  The HEI mechanical advance
on the ones I have played with is very s-l-o-w.  The vacuum advance is way
too much.  Adjustable vacuum advance pots are available or braze the slot to
limit advance to about 10 degrees.  What you want to do is have similar
advance specs to that of the points distributor.  Full mechanical advance at
2000-2500 is OK, standard trans quicker so it's full about 1500.  Again,
vacuum should be limited to no more than 15 degrees.

> Last question, Just to test this thing out before I go patching in wires
and >disconnecting others, can I just swap in the HEI and run the hot wire
straight to the + >battery post to test it out? Will it hurt to drive it
around the block a few times like this?

Shouldn't hurt anything.

One other item - when you pull the HEI out of the donor car take a look at
the way the plug wires are routed.  The number one cylinder position for the
HEI is 180 degrees different from the earlier points systems, at least up
through '70..  The rotorfor the HEI points to the rear passenger side rather
than front driver's side.  This is to allow a neater for the plug wire
arrangement.  You can install the HEI using the same locations as the points
system but those fat high voltage wires look like a bunch of snakes from an
Indiana Jones movie.  Much neater the HEI way and it reduces the chance for
crossfires.

Bob Handren
'67 W-30 Modified
'70 SX Convertible

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 16:34:23 -0300
Subject: Re: It's Dead! 

Wow - what a sad tale.

I use a Trans-Dapt oil filter relocation unit on my '67.  It came with high
pressure Good Year lines which go over barb fittings.  There are no clamps at
all and to date not even a hint of coming loose.  These lines are large using
1/2 inch pipe fittings to mate with the aluminum adapters.  My oil pressure
reaches 100 psi when cold and I don't let the engine run fast enough to have
max pressure until it warms up.  Warmed up it runs 55-65 psi. The system has
been on the car for some time now with no problems.  Sure beats the screw
driver method of filter removal and oil all over the headers.

It saddens me to hear a 425 may have died.  Best motor Olds ever made (of
that era).  The 455 can't rev as high or easy and is more tempermental versus
oiling.

The bearings you burned at the front of the engine would indicate the first
areas to lose pressure.  I hope that forged crank can be saved.

Bob Handren
'67 W-30 Modified
'70 SX Convertible

------------------------------

From: clark@sh28.dseg.ti.com (Pat Clark 952-3776)
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 17:49:48 -0300
Subject: hurst prices

Got these out of the Auto Trader Online search. For $1.00 they will give you
the phone numbers! My kingdom for 4 grand!


Rare 15th Anniversary, 1983 OLDSMOBILE HURST, 2-door, auto,
lighting rodshifters, t-tops, am/fm cassette, tint, needs water pump, all
original,114000 MILES, second owner, $3900 or best offer, call
XXX-XXX-XXXX, 9 am-9pm, AUSTIN

1983 OLDSMOBILE Hurst, BLACK w/T-tops, tint, 3 shift auto, new
dual exhaust,rebuilt carborator, new battery & alternator, excellent shape,
$3500negotiable (XXX)XXX-XXXX OKC


1984 OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS HURST, loaded, sunroof, alarm, 307,
air conditioning, 4-speed, auto, $3800, XXX-XXX-XXXX hm, Johnny,
XXX-XXXX dig, pgr., SA, TX



These prices seem very low to me


          ___              ___        _________
         /   |            /   |      /         \
        /    |           /    |     |   ___    |
       /     |          /     |     |__|   |   |
      /      |         /      |           /   /   
     /       |        /       |          /   /   
    /   /|   |       /   /|   |         /   /
   /   /_|   |__    /   /_|   |__      /   /
  |             |  |             |    /   /
  |______     __|  |______     __|   /   /_____
         |   |            |   |     |          |      Pat Clark
         |___|            |___|     |__________|       69 442
						      400/400

   "Just your average 300+hp garage hogging, gas sucking, money pit"

------------------------------

From: urbanch@magi.com (Chris Urban)
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 18:05:19 -0300
Subject: Re: It's Dead! 

        You know Chris its funny, but if I had a nickel for every person
that came to me after one of their earleir attempts at building an engine
went wrong, It seems to always be something small that triggers a series of
events that eventually destroys an otherwise healthy engine. A word of
advice, the small details are sometimes THE most important.

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 13:23:40 -0300
Subject: Re: hurst prices

Pat Clark 952-3776 wrote:
> 
> Got these out of the Auto Trader Online search. For $1.00 they will give you
> the phone numbers! My kingdom for 4 grand!
> 
>Pat:

I just talked to a man today that has a 1975 Hurst Olds with 350 (W-30) 
running with new white paint on a non-rust body (this is Alabama you 
know) and black vinyl roof but no stripes.  The t-tops are fine, but the 
interior is in need of replacement.  It has all the Hurst interior 
accessories.  He wants $1200.  Does anyone need one?

Bill

------------------------------

From: John Schmich <schmich@AZStarNet.com>
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 18:45:07 -0300
Subject: Edelbrock manifold and Hedman headers 

     The long awaited results of the Edelbrock Intake manifold and Hedman
headers for Olds SB.

Edelbrock Perfromer Olds 350 Intake Manifold #3711
(Idle-5500 RPM)  Designed for street use 307,330,350,403 cid Oldsmobile V8s.  
*For non-EGR, #3711 is stock replacement/street legal part for 307,350,403
with OEM 4-bbl. carb; 1966-72(1973 non-CA). 
*For EGR, #3711 is stock replacement/street legal part for 307,350,403 with
OEM 4-bbl. carb; 1972-85, except with black pressure EGRs.  
**Will fit 1980-1/2 to 1985 307 cid with 5A heads (casting #3317).  For with
or without EGR
"Taken from Edelbrock Catalog"

     I purchased this manifold for my '84 307" with 5A heads.  I bought it
from Summit for around $150-160.   The following material regards use on an
84 307, I'm unsure about the changes required to 330,350,403.  To obtain all
stock components and swicth them over to the Edelbrock manifold, you will
have to make some minor changes.
     First off, the inlets for two of the stock sending units are two big.
Therefore, you will have to buy two threaded fittings, I can not recall the
size of them nor find the original package and will look to see if I still
have it.  You can get these at a parts store and were I bought them she
pulled one off the shelf and ordered the second, they're not that expense,
only about $2.  To install these, I cut the fitting down so the sensor would
sit lower into the stream flow and give acurate readings.  Not cutting it
made the sending unit sit a considerable amount higher than stock.  WARNING,
don't cut to much off the first time, because these fittings are slightly
cone shaped and I found myself having to buy another because I cut to much
off and it wouldn't fit into the manifold.  
     Second, I'm not sure exactly sure what this thing is called or does but
it is a horseshoe shaped part that slides into the inatake manifold on the
passenger side.  A metal line coming off a part on the carb sticks into this
and then on the outlet side another metal line goes into the back of the
carb.  This part must sit in the water jacket stream but I'm not sure.
Anyway, you will have to slightly bend this part to conform to the slot in
the manifold.  Otherwise, it won't sit flat and seal.
     Third, the opening plane on the intake manifold inwhich the carb sits
above is different than stock 307 manifold.  On the 3711, There is two
(front-rear) slots next to each other.  If you have ever seen, the stock has
4 seperate openings the the carb.  With this different design, a aftermarket
(intake to carb) gasket will be best.  The stock gasket would probaly
restrict the flow of air and defeat the purpose of the performance
standpoint of  this manifold ( I presume ).  In my case, the carb sit a bit
higher than stock due mostly  to the fact of the afternarket gasket.  This
manifold may have a higher pad height.
     Fourth, the bolts holding down the water neck on the stock manifold go
directly down into the block.  On the 3711, there are no holes for the bolts
to go into the block.  To use the stock bolts, you will have to find a
spacer of some sort, either thick washers or I used to nuts raising the
bolts about 1/3"
     In some cases depending on year, there may be some relocations of the
various ports for vaccum lines. 
     On the plus side, it is very light weight, just as or lighter than a
stock aluminum 307 manifold.  Like me, if you didn't  have an aluminum
manifold, you will notice about a 40 pound difference in weight.  Nice brand
new look but don't hope for that look very long, especially under all the
wires and vaccum lines, you can barely tell its an aftermarket product.
     Personal recomendation:  Like myself, this would probably be a weekend
job for the person that has never done this before.  With the purchase of
manifold, fittings, carb gasket, intake gasket, sealer and other misc.
items, it would probably come to about $180-200.  I can't imagine that there
is a noticable difference in perfromance from stock, so it is probably not
worth the money for the stock engine.  On your next rebuild, if your like
me, this would be a perfect choice for the person that wants every part new
on the engine.  In other words, it might not be worth the time and money to
do this on a worn out engine.  

Hedman headers for Olds SB 
Can't rember exactly what the catalog said but I do remeber it saying that
they would fit a 307 with 5A heads.

     These headers came with all the mounting hardware such as nice new
bolts, gaskets, and 2-1/4" collectors that has an O2 sensor inlet in one.
     Personal experience notes:
     When we first put the engine in the car, we didn't put the headers on
thinking it would be much harder to get it in straight and a lot easier to
do it later.  Boy were we wrong.  We had to lift the engine up about 8 times
to get the header to fit between the head and power steering rod on the
driver side.  I also had to rebuy the dipstick tube 3 times because of these
headers.  Because the stock manifolds just connected into one outlet and
went directly down, the dipstick tube didn't get in the way.  With the
Hedman headers, the dipstick tube has to be slid down in between the two
middle exhaust tubes after the headers are already on the heads.  This makes
it impossible to put them on  with the dipstick tube in and with the engine
on the mounts.  
     As for the headers themselves, they weren't produced with quality in
mind.  The first and second time I started the car up, the paint on the
headers melted off.  Already, all the paint has melted off around the ports.
Making it a sore sight on the sides of the block.  In the directions for
these, it saids that using header wrap or any other heat protectants will
void the warranty on the headers.  I could care less about the warranty now
but I'm not about to take them off again.  
     The headers are much bigger than stock manifolds so they sit a lot
lower.  They also are longer so they exit out well past stock location.
With this I've encountered another problem,  Muffler shops that I've called
in order to get the exhaust redone say it might not meet EPA laws.  They
claim that with the extended length the catalytic convertor will have to be
moved back a bit and it might not pass the stock convertor location test at
the emmisions center.  If you do buy these headers plan on getting the stock
exhaust reworked to fit.  I let you guys and gals know when I am able to
take it down to the muffler shop and testing center.  
     As you might be able to tell, I am not happy with the product I
recieved.  The problems with getting them in there is understandable, but
the quality and the way they conform to the car is horrible.  I do not
recomend these but I'm unsure about how other companies are with there products.
     This is just a part of the obstacles I've had with my never ending
adventure to get my car running again.  As for the computer problems, I
ordered a H/O computer prom last Thursday.  Called them today and they said
it was being made in Lansing so it will be a couple of days.  At the dealer,
we found that the H/O engine option is referred to as LV-2 option.  I hope
it works.  
     Sorry about the late postings and other such, its just been kinda
hecktic with the car, finals week and work.  Any other questions welcome.  
     More to Come.....

Brandon
Brodie

 

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 12:13:09 -0300
Subject: Re: hurst prices 

     Hot dang, those do seem like nice prices!  Is there any way to know 
     what part of the country they're in before committing a whole $3?
     
     Sombody ought to jump on these!  Brandon, you listening???
     
     I'm kinda leery about that '84 though.  AFAIK, '84 H/O's couldn't be 
     had with a sunroof.  Just hardtop or T-top.  Although a sun/moon roof 
     was available on other Cutlass' of that year, so you never know.  
     Listing 4-speed auto, air, etc. like they do is a bit redundant too, 
     you don't have much choice, they're standard.
     
     Tom L.
     
     P.

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: hurst prices
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    5/6/96 2:43 PM


Got these out of the Auto Trader Online search. For $1.00 they will give you 
the phone numbers! My kingdom for 4 grand!

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 12:13:13 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: hurst prices 

     Oops.. sorry about that.  I hit ctrl-S instead of shift-S and 
     prematurely sent the message.
     
     Anyways, never mind, I'm blind.  I just saw the cities/states listed 
     after the ads.  Too far for me.
     
     I was going to type P.S. I didn't have a disastrous weekend or have 
     anything fall apart.  In fact, I got a bit of work done (not as much 
     as I hoped, but isn't that how it always works?) and got the 
     dual-stage shock sensor and microwave radar added to the H/O's alarm 
     system.  That microwave radar sensor is pretty neat, I think it'll be 
     one of the better $30 I've spent so far.  For anyone installing one, I 
     put mine behind the rear seat cushion between tranny hump and 
     seat-belt anchor point pointing forward.  Seems to cover the whole car 
     pretty good, didn't have to cut or drill anything, and easy to get to 
     for adjustments (just remove rear seat, no tools needed!).


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: hurst prices
Author:  Tom Lentz at SPOKANE
Date:    5/6/96 2:58 PM


     Hot dang, those do seem like nice prices!  Is there any way to know
     [bandwidth saved]
     Tom L.
     
     P.

------------------------------

From: Scott D Ballentine <sb7k+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 20:14:55 -0300
Subject: Re: The New Guy

Excerpts: 5-May-96 The New Guy by Alf Reibel@iu05trc.trine 
> I am starting to restore my wife's '84
> Cutlass Calais (Buick v-6, T-tops,HD Suspension, etc.).  It's in good shape
> overall with one major exception-MAJOR Rust in the rear frame sections
> directly behind the rear wheels.

I don't know about finding a car to donate the frame - this is known to
be a problem with 78-88 Cutlasses.  It's probably going to take some
time and patience to find a clean frame (which means, more than likely,
the rest of the car is pretty clean as well) and may cost you a little
bit of $$$.  On the other hand, you can probably buy the rear frame
rails for under $100, and have them welded in.

I think you can take an 81-88 frame.  I don't know about 78-80 frames -
they may have changed the frame when they changed the body style. 
Anyway, good luck!


    -Scott Ballentine
     sb7k@andrew.cmu.edu
     Carnegie Mellon University
     School of Computer Science

------------------------------

From: z28cfi@gwis.com (Jason P. Labay)
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 21:44:58 -0300
Subject: Re: hurst prices 

If it has a 350 it is the W-25.  I could use it, but what I need are
interior parts and I don't see myself getting to Alabama anytmie soon. Too
far away from me in Akron, Ohio..

Jason Labay (z28cfi@gwis.com)
1975 H/O W-25
>
>I just talked to a man today that has a 1975 Hurst Olds with 350 (W-30) 
>running with new white paint on a non-rust body (this is Alabama you 
>know) and black vinyl roof but no stripes.  The t-tops are fine, but the 
>interior is in need of replacement.  It has all the Hurst interior 
>accessories.  He wants $1200.  Does anyone need one?
>
>Bill
>
>
>

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #168
********************************

