
oldsmobile-digest          Tuesday, 16 April 1996       Volume 01 : Number 149


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 11:27:29 -0300
Subject: Re: window regulator 

>I would like new, but will go with used if they are not broke.
>Anybody know where I could get these impossible to find parts??  Junkyards
>around here seem to have a short supply (thankfully?!) of Oldsmobiles...

Check out a '69 GM anything... our Pontiac Custom S wagon (basically a
LeMans for argument's sake) of that year had the same things, and I kind 
of doubt they would be different part numbers than the Olds.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Michael Allen <ALLEN@msmail.mdfc.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 12:39:00 -0300
Subject: FW: As requested, Info on W-40 Option

FYI........... I am an original owner of a '83 15th Anniv H/O and possess a 
letter from Oldsmobile stating there were 501 in the 2nd production run, 
bringing the total number of '83 H/Os to 3001.  Mine is number 2506.
Michael Allen
'83 15th Anniv H/O
allen@mdfc.com
the_allen_family_id@msn.com
 ----------
From: oldsmobile-owner
To: dbrown; oldsmobile
Subject: As requested, Info on W-40 Option
Date: Friday, April 12, 1996 2:36PM


     Sorry, I was wrong, the '84 H/O was the W-40 option, NOT the w-35
     option.

     The W-40 Hurst/Olds option was based on the Cutlass Calais K47 Style.
     3500 were built in 1984, and 2500 were built in the first run of 1983,
     folled by a second run of 500 for a total of 3000 '83 models.

     According to the '84 Olds Specs book:

     W40 Hurst/Olds Package     $1995.00

     Includes Silver Metallic and Black special paint scheme with Red and
     Black accent stripes on Upper Sides and Front-End Panel.  Blacked-out
     Bumpers, Bumper Guards, Headlamp Doors, Tail Lamp and BAckup Lamp
     Bezels with Black and Bright Grille, Amber Park/Turn Lamp lenses,
     Chrome and Silver Super Stock Wheels with Red accent stripe (N83),
     Black Front Lower Air Dam, Silver Deck Lid Spoiler, Non-functional
     Hood Scoop and Bumper Rub Strip Moldings.  Includes all Calais
     interior features such as Reclining Bucket Front Seats (AR9), Outside
     Mirrors (D35) Silver, Sport Console (D55), Firm Ride and Handling
     Package (F41) plus superlift Air Shock Absorbers, Custom Sport
     Steering Wheel (NK3), P215/65R15 Goodyear Eagle GT Tires (QYH),
     Instrument Panel Rallye Cluster (U21) and Tungsten Halogen Headlamps
     (TT5), 5.0-liter V8 engine (LV2) with high-performance camshaft and
     dual-outlet exhaust system: 4-speed Automatic Overdrive Transmission
     (MX0) with special Hurst "lightning Rod" shifter and a 3.73 Axle Ratio
     (GT4).  (Available on on K47 with exterior color 17 Silver Metallic
     and Interior Trims 23 Royal Blue Cloth, 25 Maple Red Cloth or 55 Maple
     Red Vinyl - D68 available C60 and V08 required - N.A. with B84, B93,
     C04, N66, N91, QHW, QJR, QMW, QMX, U35, U46 or Y71)

     -------------------------- end of brochure --------------------------

     According to this the interior can also come in a Royal Blue Cloth.
     I've only seen the red vinyl and red cloth.  Can anyone else verify
     ever having seen a blue-interiored '84 H/O?

     The only options not included or limited by the W40 package were:
     CC1 Removable Roof Panels                          $825.00
     G80 Differential, Limited Slip                     $95.00
     K07 Heater, Engine Block                           $18.00
     Plus a choice of 5 different radios, an upgraded speaker package, and
     a power antenna.

     Tom Lentz

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 15:36:17 -0300
Subject: Re: Delta 88

Charles A Rogers wrote:
> 
> Im still looking for a 69 delta 88.  i need info about it and pictures if
> possible.  thanks

I am parting out a 69 Delta 88, blue with blue interior and a 4 door. Has 
the 350. I can take a picture if you want and send it to you....

Jason Labay
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 11:52:51 -0300
Subject: Re: I've been bitten by the Toro bug- hard! 

>BTW, I am looking for a hubcap for this car; large flat raised surface with
>Oldsmobile written on it. 

I'm puzzled; I was going to get you the Hollander number for this, which
would enable you to hunt for it by phone, but none of the covers listed
for Toronado have "Oldsmobile" (or "Toronado", for that matter) on them.
Any chance that you have a generic "Oldsmobile" cover that happens to fit
over the big hubs? Some photos showed some likely candidates there.

Maybe if you can give more details like ornamentation around the edge;
whether it says "Oldsmobile" or "O L D S M O B I L E", once or twice
around the perimeter; number of ribs, if any; etc., I can identify it.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 05:06:44 -0300
Subject: Re: Who is interested 

     No, if it were split I'd still subscribe to both groups anyways.  What 
     about a split by model years?  Then again, I'd still subscribe to both 
     groups 'cause there's lots of good info to be had even if you don't 
     own a car of the discussed vintage.
     
     What about moving this to a newsgroup instead of a mailing list?  I'd 
     go for that!
     
     Tom L.

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Who is interested
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    4/13/96 12:36 PM


I was just wondering how much interest there would be in splitting this 
group into 2 (or more) categories such as performance and restoration or 
whatever?
     
     

------------------------------

From: GUEISEPPI THE BARBER <JJF96@uno.cc.geneseo.edu>
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 14:20:09 -0300
Subject: Re: Cheap engine [montana]

joe ferrero
13 rorbach lane
geneseo, ny 14454
(716) 243-3437

about that "cheap engine" ....   does it have any casting #'s viis there 
a chance it is still in the car?  if so are there any useable parts for 
sale ?   (ie the car passenger front fender, fender skirts, back up 
lights etc.?)

if so please respond for any of these "?"'s.

thanks.   	--joe (the college student)

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 05:36:29 -0300
Subject: Re: Rear end 

     Posi is preferred, for both high-performance and for inclement-weather 
     use.  Posi is short for posi-traction, which is GM's name for a 
     limited slip differential.  In an open (non-posi) diff, one wheel will 
     spin when given enough power to break free.  A posi has a clutch built 
     in to limit that from happening.
     
     12 is better than 10, but you can't just go by the number of bolts.  
     For example, 10-bolts come in 7.5 and 8.5" carriers.  The 8.5" is 
     stronger.  The best way is to look at the number stamped on the 
     passenger's side front of the rear axle and look it up in a book.  I'm 
     fairly sure the upcoming Old's FAQ will contain the codes you need 
     too.
     
     NOS stands for "New Old Stock".  I was confused for a while too, 
     thinking it "obviously can't mean N2O".  New Old Stock is orignal 
     factory parts for your car that were manufactured years ago but have 
     been lying around on shelves collecting dust since then.
     
     Now... anyone got a 3.73:1 posi for an '84 Cutlass lying around??
     
     Tom L.
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Rear end
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    4/13/96 10:06 PM


I went out and looked at the rear diff. in my 69 Cutlass tonight.  What is 
the most desirable differential (posi or non-posi)?  I am not familiar 
enough with them to really know, other than there are 10 and 12 bolt ones. 
I assume that is the number of bolts around the rear cover?  And how do you 
measure the size (in inches)?  Is a 12 bolt always the same size?  Mine has 
a 12 bolt, based on my earlier assumption; found a W-27 12 bolt cover in 
Year One for $89.00 (reproduction, of course). 
     
Also what are "NOS" parts?  Apparently _NOT_ nitrous oxide...
     
Thanks for the info...  
- --
Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme 
dpauliso@metrolink.net
     
     

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 14:31:03 -0300
Subject: Re: 394 Olds engine

> 
> Engine rebuild parts are available from Kanter Auto Products, 76 Monroe St.,
> Boonton, NJ, 07005, Phone 1-800-526-1096.  They also have a web page --
> http://www.kanter.com, where you can order their catalog for free.  I don't
> think they have any performance parts, just stock rebuild stuff.  

	I got a bunch of rebuild stuff for my 394 from Kanter (bearings, 
rings, freeze plugs, gasket set, etc) and I was pleased with both the 
service, and the goods.  The bearings and rings were NOS, and the other 
stuff was new.  I was able to track down other stuff locally (timing 
chain, rod bearings, carb kit, etc), and I had a machine shop do the 
heads.  So far no real problems (knock on wood) :)
	
		Scott
	1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 14:34:02 -0300
Subject: Re: 394 Olds engine

> >1) Does this engine have major weaknesses? 
> >
> >
> 
> Isn't it true that cracked heads are not uncommon on these engines?  I had a
> '64 with a cracked head, and a buddy's dad had a '60 with a cracked head.
>  Were these just flukes, or are they know for this affliction?

	I haven't really heard of 394 heads being prone to cracking, but I 
could be wrong here.  They seem like pretty sturdy units, and I really 
would'nt be too worried about them.  Just keep things cool, and keep your 
octane number up there and things should be fine.  :)

			Scott
		1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 06:56:31 -0300
Subject: Re: I've been bitten by the Toro bug- hard!

> Bob the GREEN 69 Toro guy wrote:
> 
> A-pillar:

Similar problem on my 66.  Ther is a seam midway on the pillar where 
the body panel joins the roof panel (lead filled I believe).  The 
original primer didn't stick well on my passanger side pillar, probably 
not preped right. The usual fixes will work just make sure it's primered 
properly for lead.

>hubcap ... large flat raised surface with Oldsmobile written on it.

Never noticed a large hubcap or wheel cover for them.  My 66 has caps 
maybe 9" in diameter with a centered Olds rocket in black.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 06:59:00 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds Classified

David Paulison wrote:
> 
> The Olds classified page is at http://ep.com/s/ca/old.html

I keep getting a 404 at this URL.  Anybody?

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: urbanch@magi.com (Chris Urban)
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 16:15:27 -0300
Subject: Re: Toro cam specs? + is .500" max lift for Olds cams? 

It depends on a lot of factors a) what type of seal b) are the guides stock
or not and c) if not what is the clearance from the bottom of the keeper to
the top of the seal. With stock components there is usually only 0.510 " of
distance in this area. Solution cut the guides down, very easy and then you
can run as big a cam as you like.


>So what is the *real* limit? is it exactly .500", or .520", or .535"? Or do
>you have to measure each individually? Can you use shims to go over .500"?
>
>If I can, I'd like to go with a looser torque converter and a freer exhaust
>for my toro, plus a bit more cam with that Chet Herbert grind. Maybe with a
>fresh-air setup, I could get 420hp? Does this sound "doable" on a Toro motor?
>Or should I just add Splitfires and Mobil 1 synthetic? ;)
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: urbanch@magi.com (Chris Urban)
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 16:15:29 -0300
Subject: Re: Who is interested -Reply 

I think we should ask Bryceman to see if he wants to do it?

>I think it would be a great idea.  I am only interested in restoration, and the
>volume of messages is really getting to be large.
>
>Bill Walden
>1986 Ciera ES
>1966 F-85 Hardtop
>Keep em rolling
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: "Bruce D. Brumm" <bdbrumm@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 19:44:33 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds Classified

Mike Frederick wrote:
> 
> David Paulison wrote:
> >
> > The Olds classified page is at http://ep.com/s/ca/old.html
> 
> I keep getting a 404 at this URL.  Anybody?
> 
> The 66 Toro and Mike
> 
> --
> Michael R. Frederick, CEO
> Edison3, Incorporated
> Tampa, Florida
> (813) 210-8649

just "hit" the link.  It hooked up fine for me -- am using Netscape 2.0.
- -- 

Bruce D. Brumm (bdbrumm@ix.netcom.com)
Network & Systems Administrator
LDM Technologies, Inc.
Troy, MI

'84 Cutlass Supreme 307-Y
'86 Cutlass Salon 307-Y

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 17:51:13 -0300
Subject: Re: Strange Poncho..was Re: 1961-63 Olds 215? 

          You're correct.  The Pontiac slant 4 was half of a 389 (195 
          cu in displacement x 2 = 390 cu in - allowing for roundoff 
          error).  Just look at the valve cover.  This had to be one 
          of the largest displacement four cylinder production engines 
          ever built in modern times (yes, I know about the 6 liter, 8 
          liter, and larger engines built in the early 1900's).  Since 
          this engine was pre-balance shaft, it must have vibrated the 
          heck out of the passengers.  Didn't even need to put the 
          quarters in the slot for a magic-fingers ride!


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Strange Poncho..was Re: 1961-63 Olds 215?
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at OSC-LINK
Date:    4/15/96 2:57 PM


          
          
> In 1961, Olds (and Buick and Pontiac, referred to collectively as "The 
> BOP Cars") came out with their new small cars 
> (Olds F-85, Pontiac Tempest, Buick Special).  All had available a new, all 
> aluminum V-8, displacing 215 cubic inches.  This engine was standard in 
> the Buick and Olds, optional in the Pontianc.  
          
 Anybody else out there ever see the "standard" Pontiac engine in 
thoes little cars?  I test drove a 61 Tempest a few years ago (before I 
got smart and bought an Olds :) Anyway, the thing had this bizzar little 
"Slant 4".  It was litteraly half a V8!!  It had a 4bbl carb, coupled to 
a 2 speed auto.  The acceleration was less than neck-snapping to say the 
least.  But, you would think that if you could fit half a V8 in there, 
you could fit the other half, right?  And the casting mold was not from 
the 215, either if I'm not mistaken.  I think it was a 389...
 Anyway, just something to think about..
          
          
  Scott
 1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98
          

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 18:01:30 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Tempest/Buick Special/Ch*v Corvair 

          I always thought that all four cars were based on the same 
          floor pan.  The Tempest was the most unusual, with the 
          previously mentioned transaxle and "rope" driveshaft.  I 
          think the shaft was about 1" in diameter.  The Tempest 
          appears to use the Corvair transaxle and swing-axle rear 
          suspension (can you say Ralph Nader).  I remember the first 
          time I crawled under one of these in a wrecking yard.  The 
          transaxle is mounted as it would be in a Corvair, with the 
          torque converter facing towards the rear of the car, where 
          the flat six would have been located.  The drive shaft 
          enters the other end of the transaxle and appears to pass 
          through the unit and into the backside of the converter.  
          The torque converter itself just hangs off of the back end 
          of the transaxle with no cover!  I've never seen the manual 
          trans version of the car, but I assume it also uses the 
          Corvair hardware with the clutch in the normal 
          (front-engine) location behind the engine.  Pretty clever 
          use of existing hardware for very different applications.  
          Note that 63 Tempest used this same setup with a Pontiac 326 
          instead of the BOP 215.  They even built Super Duty drag 
          cars with 421s (!!!!!) through a modified version of the 
          transaxle.


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Tempest/Buick Special/Ch*v Corvair
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at OSC-LINK
Date:    4/15/96 2:57 PM


Regarding the early 1960's GM compacts, the Olds F-85 and Buick Special 
were very closely related, the Pontiac Tempest was fairly close to these 
two, and the Corvair was really in a world of its own.
          
Other interesting features of the Tempest was the independent rear 
suspension. As previously mentioned, the Tempest had a rope-drive. 
I'm not sure if I'd use that term exactly, but apparently it had some 
kind of flexible driveshaft. The tranmission was mounted in the back,
from what I understand. I don't know where the clutch or torque converter 
were mounted. If you've ever ridden in one of these Tempests, you'd 
notice it has a quite flat floor as a result of the independent rear 
suspension, transaxle, and flexible driveshaft. Back in the dark ages,
I regularly got a ride to junior high in a neighbor's slant-four Tempest 
(and their other car, a 409 Impala).
          
I'm very impressed with the amount of innovation American manufacturers 
used in that era. Somewhere in the 1970's this was lost for a while, 
probably because some of these advanced cars really had their problems, 
and a preoccupation with pollution and gas mileage.
          
In some ways I would say the Toronado was at the tail end of this 
innovative, risk-taking period, following the Corvair, the B-O-P compacts, 
and the mid-60's Corvette.
          
- - Paul Elosge (elosge@eco.twg.com)
          

------------------------------

From: Doug Ahern <doug@cobra.cosmic.uga.edu>
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 17:19:46 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Tempest/Buick Special/Ch*v Corvair

>           Note that 63 Tempest used this same setup with a Pontiac 326 
>           instead of the BOP 215.  They even built Super Duty drag 
>           cars with 421s (!!!!!) through a modified version of the 
>           transaxle.

I've got a picture of a Royal Pontiac Bobcat '62 tempest with a SD421 
on one of my web pages at http://www.cosmic.uga.edu/doug/cars/gallery.html
under "drag racing".  Its racing a Tasca Ford.   The weight advantage
of the Ponty is apparent in the relative size to the fullsize ford in
this pic.  go GM!

------------------------------

From: Cary Yamamoto <yamamoto@unr.edu>
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 17:20:19 -0300
Subject: Re: Who is interested -Reply

I think splitting the group into restoration and performance would be a 
great idea.  I would actually like to see a BOP (Buick, Olds, Pontiac) 
restoration group, since many parts are interchangeable within these makes.



Cary Yamamoto                                 University of NV, Reno
Coordinator,                                  Prospective Students/110
Prospective Students                          Reno, NV  89557
                                              (702) 784-4865 
	                                      (702) 784-1852 fax	 

On Mon, 15 Apr 1996, Chris Urban wrote:

> I think we should ask Bryceman to see if he wants to do it?
> 
> >I think it would be a great idea.  I am only interested in restoration, and the
> >volume of messages is really getting to be large.
> >
> >Bill Walden
> >1986 Ciera ES
> >1966 F-85 Hardtop
> >Keep em rolling
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 18:27:54 -0300
Subject: Re: 1961-63 Olds 215? 

          

          The BOP 215 is a really neat engine developed before its 
          time.  This is actually a Buick-developed engine - it shares 
          its basic architecture with the famous Buick V-6 (now the GM 
          3.8 liter engine) of turbocharged GNX fame.  The V-6 was 
          always cast iron, while the 215 is obviously aluminum.  One 
          interesting point is that there are two different versions 
          of the motor, a Buick version and an Olds version.  
          Apparently Olds designed a unique, Olds-only set of heads 
          while using the common short block.
          
          The 1961 versions of the motor were rated at 155 hp, but 
          later years saw increases - up to 200 hp normally aspirated 
          for the Buick version and 215 hp in turbocharged form from 
          Olds (the 62-63 Jetfire).  The engine design rights and 
          tooling were later sold to British Leyland (now Rover) and 
          lives on today in the Land Rover in both 3.9 and 4.2 liter 
          form.  The same engine is also sold to other British 
          manufacturers (such as TVR).  Another interesting bit of 
          trivia is that the 1964 Buick 300 is actually a cast iron 
          version of this motor with aluminum heads - in fact these 64 
          heads have larger ports and valves and will bolt to a 215.  
          The basic block was also used by REPCO in Australia as the 
          basis for a DOHC Formula 1 engine.  The pushrod version saw 
          racing use in early 60's sports cars and I think Mickey 
          Thompson ran them at Indy.
          
          The 215 is an awsome engine for its size and weight.  A 
          full-up 4bbl version weighs only 305 lbs wet - and parts are 
          available to bore it out to 5.0 liters!  I had one in a Vega 
          sedan delivery about ten years ago (D&D Performance in 
          Romulus, MI sells kits and engine parts).  The 215 weighs 
          only 20 lbs more than the Vega 4 cyl, so the car still goes 
          around corners (try that with your small block chebby).  
          There's also a guy in Utah who sells kits to swap the motor 
          into early RX-7s.  There is a lot of early 60s parts for 
          these motors out at the swap meets, like Weber manifolds, 
          valve covers, etc.  
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: Doug Ahern <doug@cobra.cosmic.uga.edu>
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 17:53:24 -0300
Subject: Re: Who is interested -Reply

what would be the purpose of spliting this mail list?  would anyone
*not* subscribe to both?  I see it as a source of confusion,  for
example:  I want to post "restoring 64 Olds, need head casting#"
do I post it to both lists?  so 3/4's of the subscribers who are
subscribed to both lists will get two copies?  I think its a bad
idea.  The subject matter is already narrowed down to Oldsmobiles.

If people feel that the list is generating too much traffic, I would
say that we discourage people from letting threads get too "non-Olds"
(like my last post about the Royal bobcat), and most importantly,
take notes offline and use one-on-one email when possible.  

If a vote is being tallied, then heres one vote for unity, "One List!!"

I don't see any problem with taking about parts interchangablity
between any GM cars, as long as one part is an Olds part! 
i.e. "subject: help! trying to fit a Olds 455 in to my Nova!" or
"subject: help! trying to put 442 sway bar on my skylark!"  and which
of the two proposed olds lists would you post this interchangability 
question to? "help with tig welding needed: W-31 aluminum intake doesn't 
bolt up to my RA IV Pontiac 400!!!"

Can I vote twice?  No and No.

Doug Ahern      doug@cosmic.uga.edu  1964 F-85 Cutlass 
http://www.cosmic.uga.edu/doug.html  1969 Dart 
Sys Admin, COSMIC, Univ. of Georgia  1974 Satellite ex-cop car

------------------------------

From: Charles A Rogers <roger035@gold.tc.umn.edu>
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 18:06:22 -0300
Subject: Re: Delta 88

On Mon, 15 Apr 1996, Jason P. Labay wrote:

> Charles A Rogers wrote:
> > 
> > Im still looking for a 69 delta 88.  i need info about it and pictures if
> > possible.  thanks
> 
> I am parting out a 69 Delta 88, blue with blue interior and a 4 door. Has 
> the 350. I can take a picture if you want and send it to you....
> 
> Jason Labay
> 1975 Hurst/Olds W-25
> 
> 
> 
> 
id love it  if you could send me a picture.  
i dont know what the 69 body style was like but  knowing the era i think 
it should look cool.  why are you parting it out? just wondering  thanks 
a lot.

------------------------------

From: "Dink" <heinle@jake.udayton.edu>
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 19:14:09 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds Classified

> > The Olds classified page is at http://ep.com/s/ca/old.html

> I keep getting a 404 at this URL.  Anybody?
> The 66 Toro and Mike

Works fine for me.  Netscape 2.01


Dink
80 Delta 88 Royale

{
Dink           Dayton, Ohio
http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
Computer Information Systems Major @ UD
}

------------------------------

From: John Schmich <schmich@AZStarNet.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 18:15:02 -0300
Subject: Re: Who is interested 

At 05:20 PM 4/13/96 -0300, you wrote:
>I was just wondering how much interest there would be in splitting this
>group into 2 (or more) categories such as performance and restoration or
>whatever?
>

     I think making two groups would be a bad idea.  Personally, I'm more of
a performance guy, but in the past, I've got plenty of much needed
information from the restoration/muscle-car-era individuals.  And I
appreciate that.  Some of us like to read all the mail, even if it has
nothing to do with us.  That is what makes this list unique, we all have
Oldmobiles and we all like to help each other out from time to time.  
     If it did get split, it would be very convient for the category of
choice.  On the other hand, some of us might want to subscribe to both.  In
that case, it would be very confusing.  Thank you.

Brandon
  

------------------------------

From: clark@sh28.dseg.ti.com (Pat Clark 952-3776)
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 18:16:38 -0300
Subject: Group split

I personaly would hate to see the group split. First off I think most people on this list, myself included, are performing "restifications" on their cars not full blown factory correct restorations. I have yet to see anyone on this list ask
"what is the correct paint daub mark on my right rear muffler hanger?"(but if 
they do I am sure that someone here can answer it!) I am interested in
restoration advice, parts availablity, and performance mods for my car. I think
that most people on this list are in the same boat as me. If it were to split,
I would just have to subscribe to both.

(Besides, if we split and I just subscribed to the performance group, I would
miss all the posts relating to the Toros! ;>) Just kidding you guys! hold the 
flames!! ( I could outrun my 442 right now on foot!). But seriously, I really
like the group the way it is now. Just my $.02 


          ___              ___        _________
         /   |            /   |      /         \
        /    |           /    |     |   ___    |
       /     |          /     |     |__|   |   |
      /      |         /      |           /   /   
     /       |        /       |          /   /   
    /   /|   |       /   /|   |         /   /
   /   /_|   |__    /   /_|   |__      /   /
  |             |  |             |    /   /
  |______     __|  |______     __|   /   /_____
         |   |            |   |     |          |      Pat Clark
         |___|            |___|     |__________|       69 442
						      400/400

   " Your son's nose runs faster than this thing!  -Wife "


 

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 18:17:43 -0300
Subject: Re: 69 H/O wheels

At 06:37 AM 4/15/96 -0300, you wrote:
>BUY them, there worth a lot more!  But be sure they are 15", and 
>there should be a part no. that starts with a 'J' on the wheel.
>
>
I believe they should have "15x7JJ" and "890" stamped inside the
rim...correct me if I'm wrong before I shell out any money...

Thanks
- --
Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 18:18:16 -0300
Subject: Re: window regulator

At 08:34 AM 4/15/96 -0700, you wrote:
>
>Dave,
>
>Have you tried cross referencing the parts with another car?  It is very 
>possible the Buick Skylark or the Pontiac Tempest share the same 
>component in the door.
>
>
>In regards to you post about splitting the group, I would agree to 
>splitting the group, but I don't see too many folks who are interested in 
>the restoration end of the group.  It seems as though most are 
>cutlass/442 nuts.
>
>
>
>Cary Yamamoto                                 University of NV, Reno
>Coordinator,                                  Prospective Students/110
>Prospective Students                          Reno, NV  89557
>yamamoto@unr.edu                                              (702) 784-4865 
>	                                      (702) 784-1852 fax	 
>
The original post about splitting the group was not mine, it was Chris Urban's. 
My post was a reply to his original message.

I have tried cross-referencing parts with 1968-72 C*evy Monte Carlo's and
Chevelle's, Pontiac Lemans, and Buick Skylark (all A-bodies), but, alas, my
car is a four door (bummer...), which makes it very hard to find interior
trim pieces, door panels, and window parts.  But, heck, it's an Olds; it
runs as good as any two door...and better than _ANY_ C*evy out there...

- --
Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 18:17:24 -0300
Subject: Re: SB heads

>More nearly correct information:
>
>MODEL   YEAR            CASTING #       ID      DISPLACEMENT
>
>307     80-85           3317            5A      67 c.c.
>307     86              0142            7A      64
>350     71              409-147         7       70
>350     72              409-147         7a      70*^
>350     71-76           411-929         8       81
>350     77-80           554-716         3A      75
>403     77-79           554-717         4A      83
>455     67-69           394-548         C       80
>455     1970 only       403-686         E       77*#
>455     73-76           411-783         J       82
>
>*^ Note: presumably the same chamber volume as the other 409147's. However, the
>7a's [tiny subscript capital "A"] have hard xst seat inserts, Ii believe, soon
>to know for sure...
>
>*# Dunno where this figure came from- in my catalog it's the D's listed as much
>smaller chamber. I will assert that all BB heads were 80cc +/- 1 or 2 cc. Any
>less were factory or aftermarket [Demmer?] shaved for more compression. I have
>in my possession a set of NOS E heads, will cc them soon.


This still does not answer my question...I have a 1969 Oldsmobile 350 with
#5 heads (not 5A).  The list above has nothing small block earlier than
1971.  What is the combustion chamber volume of #5 small block heads??

Thanks again...
- --
Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 18:24:42 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds Classified

At 06:59 AM 4/15/96 -0300, you wrote:
> The Olds classified page is at http://ep.com/s/ca/old.html
>
>I keep getting a 404 at this URL.  Anybody?
>
>The 66 Toro and Mike
>
>
>-- 
>Michael R. Frederick, CEO
>Edison3, Incorporated
>Tampa, Florida
>(813) 210-8649
>
>
>
Yeah, I just tried it myself...can't put the URL in directly.  Just go to
http://ep.com and click button marked "View By Subject", then click on
"automobiles" (or something like that), then scroll down to "Oldsmobile".
It's an Olds classified page...

- --
Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 18:38:05 -0300
Subject: Re: Group split

At 06:16 PM 4/15/96 -0300, you wrote:
>I personaly would hate to see the group split. First off I think most
people on this list, myself included, are performing "restifications" on
their cars not full blown factory correct restorations. I have yet to see
anyone on this list ask
>"what is the correct paint daub mark on my right rear muffler hanger?"(but if 
>they do I am sure that someone here can answer it!) I am interested in
>restoration advice, parts availablity, and performance mods for my car. I think
>that most people on this list are in the same boat as me. If it were to split,
>I would just have to subscribe to both.
>
>(Besides, if we split and I just subscribed to the performance group, I would
>miss all the posts relating to the Toros! ;>) Just kidding you guys! hold the 
>flames!! ( I could outrun my 442 right now on foot!). But seriously, I really
>like the group the way it is now. Just my $.02 
>
>
I would tend to agree with this opinion...

- --
Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: JK McCall <jkmccall@clic.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 18:42:30 -0300
Subject: Re: Who is interested

John Schmich wrote:
> 
> At 05:20 PM 4/13/96 -0300, you wrote:
> >I was just wondering how much interest there would be in splitting this
> >group into 2 (or more) categories such as performance and restoration or
> >whatever?
> >
> 
>      I think making two groups would be a bad idea.  Personally, I'm more of
> a performance guy, but in the past, I've got plenty of much needed
> information from the restoration/muscle-car-era individuals. we all have
> Oldmobiles and we all like to help each other out from time to time.
>      
> Brandon
> 


My 2 cents worth, I have learned quite abit about both performance and restoration from 
this list and find both to be of value.  Like some of the others if it were split I 
think I'd have to subscribe to both lists.  So for what its worth, why mess with 
something that works.

JK McCall

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 19:25:51 -0300
Subject: Re: I've been bitten by the Toro bug- hard! 

Mike,

Glad to hear the 69 Toro became a reality for you! 

The hub cap you need are #412682. This is a  1970 #, but is the same cap as
far as I can tell from the picture in the GM Illustration Catalog. If these
are the same ones, I have some, and in pretty good shape too. In fact I am
looking out the window at them right now. They should be same as the 68 Toro
also.  If you wanna be sure, let me know and I will scan it for you and
E-mail. 

I am still trying to figure out why my converter is screaming. So far, Iv'e
had no help with my problem.  ): 

Greg (T-Toro)

------------------------------

From: Jeff Hunter <jchunter@xcelco.on.ca>
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 19:29:23 -0300
Subject: Charging paint? 

Hi!

I once heard that some body shops charge paint and body panels, + -, or - +.
Is this true, and how do you do it?

Thanks Alot,
Jeff Hunter
jchunter@xcelco.on.ca

------------------------------

From: bryce_smith@442.com (Bryceman)
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 19:57:10 -0300
Subject: Re: Group split 

>I personaly would hate to see the group split. First off I think most
>people on this list, myself included, are performing "restifications" on
>their cars not full blown factory correct restorations. I have yet to see
>anyone on this list ask
>"what is the correct paint daub mark on my right rear muffler hanger?"(but if
>they do I am sure that someone here can answer it!) I am interested in
>restoration advice, parts availablity, and performance mods for my car. I think
>that most people on this list are in the same boat as me. If it were to split,
>I would just have to subscribe to both.
>
>(Besides, if we split and I just subscribed to the performance group, I would
>miss all the posts relating to the Toros! ;>) Just kidding you guys! hold the
>flames!! ( I could outrun my 442 right now on foot!). But seriously, I really
>like the group the way it is now. Just my $.02

   Bryceman votes... "Ditto!"

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 19:58:23 -0300
Subject: Re: Charging paint?

At 07:29 PM 4/15/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Hi!
>
>I once heard that some body shops charge paint and body panels, + -, or - +.
>Is this true, and how do you do it?
>
>Thanks Alot,
>Jeff Hunter
>jchunter@xcelco.on.ca
>
I've heard the same thing...not sure what it does, though.  I think it has
something to do with the bonding of the paint to the metal.
- --
Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 20:01:49 -0300
Subject: Re: Rear end

At 05:36 AM 4/15/96 -0300, you wrote:
>
>     Posi is preferred, for both high-performance and for inclement-weather 
>     use.  Posi is short for posi-traction, which is GM's name for a 
>     limited slip differential.  In an open (non-posi) diff, one wheel will 
>     spin when given enough power to break free.  A posi has a clutch built 
>     in to limit that from happening.
>     
>     12 is better than 10, but you can't just go by the number of bolts.  
>     For example, 10-bolts come in 7.5 and 8.5" carriers.  The 8.5" is 
>     stronger.  The best way is to look at the number stamped on the 
>     passenger's side front of the rear axle and look it up in a book.  I'm 
>     fairly sure the upcoming Old's FAQ will contain the codes you need 
>     too.
>     
Where exactly do I look for the number?? On the diff. housing, or on the
shaft on the passenger side; up high, or on the bottom?

Thanks!
- --
Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Jeff Hunter <jchunter@xcelco.on.ca>
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 20:25:01 -0300
Subject: Re: Charging paint? 

>I've heard the same thing...not sure what it does, though.  I think it has
>something to do with the bonding of the paint to the metal.
>--
>Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
>dpauliso@metrolink.net
>

you're right there.  it makes the paint stick better and not run, etc.  it
suposedly lets you soak it good, giving a very high gloss.  i think anyways

------------------------------

From: urbanch@magi.com (Chris Urban)
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 20:26:18 -0300
Subject: Re: Who is interested 

Well I have to disagree. I think for those that are interested in one type
of information more than another would benefit in a lot less e-mail to sort
through, and those like yourself that liked both could subscribe to both and
it would be the same as receiving all the mail now.


>At 05:20 PM 4/13/96 -0300, you wrote:
>>I was just wondering how much interest there would be in splitting this
>>group into 2 (or more) categories such as performance and restoration or
>>whatever?
>>
>
>     I think making two groups would be a bad idea.  Personally, I'm more of
>a performance guy, but in the past, I've got plenty of much needed
>information from the restoration/muscle-car-era individuals.  And I
>appreciate that.  Some of us like to read all the mail, even if it has
>nothing to do with us.  That is what makes this list unique, we all have
>Oldmobiles and we all like to help each other out from time to time.  
>     If it did get split, it would be very convient for the category of
>choice.  On the other hand, some of us might want to subscribe to both.  In
>that case, it would be very confusing.  Thank you.
>
>Brandon
>  
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: Doug McClanahan <mcclan@wsdot.wa.gov>
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 20:38:11 -0300
Subject: charged paint

My gearhead brother had mentioned that he "grounds" his cars with a chain 
when he paints them to ensure that the metal flake does not orient in any 
particular direction.  It is possible that if you charge your body panels 
that they will eliminate the randomness in the orientation of the 
metalflake.  This all sounds "flaky" to me but I thought I would pass on 
my two cents anyway.


Doug McClanahan 
Owner of many 1967 CS parts that will one day be a car.
mcclan@wsdot.wa.gov

>At 07:29 PM 4/15/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Hi!
>
>I once heard that some body shops charge paint and body panels, + -, or - +.
>Is this true, and how do you do it?
>
>Thanks Alot,
>Jeff Hunter
>jchunter@xcelco.on.ca
>
I've heard the same thing...not sure what it does, though.  I think it 
has
something to do with the bonding of the paint to the metal.
- --
Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 21:07:55 -0300
Subject: Re: I've been bitten by the Toro bug- hard! 

In a message dated 96-04-15 18:43:38 EDT, you write:

>Mike,
>
>Glad to hear the 69 Toro became a reality for you! 

Nope, the '69 Toro is a reality for Bob (now the '69 Toro guy) here, though
there may be a Mike out there with a '69 (any other '69 owners out there?).

>The hub cap you need are #412682. This is a  1970 #, but is the same cap as
>far as I can tell from the picture in the GM Illustration Catalog. If these
>are the same ones, I have some, and in pretty good shape too. In fact I am
>looking out the window at them right now. They should be same as the 68 Toro
>also.  If you wanna be sure, let me know and I will scan it for you and
>E-mail. 

Thanks! I just got a quick look at it, and my mind was on other things (nice
paint!), but I swear I recall seeing "Oldsmobile"  in small block letters in
a circle on the middle part. The center is raised to clear the hub,
naturally, and extends to about 2" from the edge; from there to the edge
there are little "spokes" out to the outer ring. That's what's on there now,
but I don't know where they are from. One wheel has an Eldorado hubcap that
almost looks identical; that's what I want to replace.

>I am still trying to figure out why my converter is screaming. So far, Iv'e
>had no help with my problem.  ): 

Yikes! I suppose not many people on this list have delved into a Toro tranny
(or even seen one).

>Greg (T-Toro)

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 21:09:34 -0300
Subject: Re: Charging paint? 

Jeff,

I believe by giving the body and paint opposite charges you greatly reduce
the amount of overspray. The paint molecules would tend to be attracted to
the body like a magnet, thereby reducing the amount of paint being used ($
saving money) and more environmentally friendly. 

I think this process is used with powdered paints also. My brother works at
Briggs & Stratton and he says that the engines are statically charged and the
powder sticks to it, then the engine is baked at high heat where the powder
basically melts to a liquid and drys. No overspray here at all!

Modern technology! What ever happened to hand rubbing nitrocellulose lacquer!

Greg (Typhoid Toro)

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 22:29:08 -0300
Subject: Re: Delta 88

Charles A Rogers wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 15 Apr 1996, Jason P. Labay wrote:
> 
> > Charles A Rogers wrote:
> > >
> > > Im still looking for a 69 delta 88.  i need info about it and pictures if
> > > possible.  thanks
> >
> > I am parting out a 69 Delta 88, blue with blue interior and a 4 door. Has
> > the 350. I can take a picture if you want and send it to you....
> >
> > Jason Labay
> > 1975 Hurst/Olds W-25
> >
> >
> >
> >
> id love it  if you could send me a picture.
> i dont know what the 69 body style was like but  knowing the era i think
> it should look cool.  why are you parting it out? just wondering  thanks
> a lot.

I am parting it out because since it came into my family's towing yard, 
the only kind of title it can get now is a "rebuilt salvage" title. It is 
restorable, but needs rear quarters and maybe floors. Other than that it 
isn't too bad. Has alot of real good interior parts and the doors, 
fenders and hood are excellent. I will take the picture this weekend and 
get them out when they are developed, hopefully soon....

Jason Labay
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25
1988 Camaro Z/28 CFI 305

------------------------------

From: isagil <isagil@CAM.ORG>
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 01:47:16 -0300
Subject: Tempest, Buick Special, Olds F-85 & Toronado

Interesting matters, those Tempest, F-85 et. al. 

1) Does anybody know how many of these cars were built?

2) What about the Toronado? I see a lot of Toros around here, what was 
the original idea behind that car back in the mid-sixties? How come the 
Eldorado came in 67, (apparently) one year after the Toronado? Is there 
any link between the two cars?

<isagil@cam.org>

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 00:03:31 -0300
Subject: JC Whitney

Just wondering...has anybody ever had a problem with JC Whitney
service/quality, etc.?  I was thinking of ordering some engine parts from
them.  I've never ordered from them before, and wanted to kinda check them
out before I did.  My brother-in-law ordered some parts from them a few
years ago, and as I recall, I think most parts he ordered were name brand,
though there are not a lot of name brands mentioned in their catalog...

Thanks again!
- --
Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 00:45:03 -0300
Subject: Re: Charging paint? 

At 19.29 04,15,96 -0300, you wrote:
>Hi!
>
>I once heard that some body shops charge paint and body panels, + -, or - +.
>Is this true, and how do you do it?
>
>Thanks Alot,
>Jeff Hunter
>jchunter@xcelco.on.ca
>

my bro is a body man...he says that it helps mostly with metallic
paints...gets the flakes to all go the same way...he hasnt done it for a
while, but he said it was using ionized air...dont ask me how they get it though
               zack
      ___
     /. .\
    _\_*_/_                     -<Buddha>-
   / /   \ \                   Buddha@itw.com
   \_\___/_/            HTTP://www2.itw.com/~buddha/
  /___\_/___\ "That which does not kill us makes us stronger"
 *************

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 00:41:10 -0300
Subject: Re: Who is interested -Reply 

At 16.15 04,15,96 -0300, you wrote:
>I think we should ask Bryceman to see if he wants to do it?
>
>>I think it would be a great idea.  I am only interested in restoration,
and the
>>volume of messages is really getting to be large.
>>
>>Bill Walden
>>1986 Ciera ES
>>1966 F-85 Hardtop
>>Keep em rolling
>>
>>
>>
>>

i vote no
          zack
      ___
     /. .\
    _\_*_/_                     -<Buddha>-
   / /   \ \                   Buddha@itw.com
   \_\___/_/            HTTP://www2.itw.com/~buddha/
  /___\_/___\ "That which does not kill us makes us stronger"
 *************

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 00:47:49 -0300
Subject: Re: JC Whitney 

At 00.03 04,16,96 -0300, you wrote:
>Just wondering...has anybody ever had a problem with JC Whitney
>service/quality, etc.?  I was thinking of ordering some engine parts from
>them.  I've never ordered from them before, and wanted to kinda check them
>out before I did.  My brother-in-law ordered some parts from them a few
>years ago, and as I recall, I think most parts he ordered were name brand,
>though there are not a lot of name brands mentioned in their catalog...
>
>Thanks again!
>--
>Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
>dpauliso@metrolink.net
>

ok...i have gotten spotty quality from them...sometimes they send out teh
right thing...and others they have sent out a ford fender for a chevy
tailgate...the fender even had footprints on it...we asked if they charged
extra :)
                    zack
PS...anyone going to be in Carlilse Pa for the car show this weekend?
      ___
     /. .\
    _\_*_/_                     -<Buddha>-
   / /   \ \                   Buddha@itw.com
   \_\___/_/            HTTP://www2.itw.com/~buddha/
  /___\_/___\ "That which does not kill us makes us stronger"
 *************

------------------------------

From: Piotr Trzeciak <pt@cut1.mech.pk.edu.pl>
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 06:12:23 -0300
Subject: Re: GM Page

On Sun, 7 Apr 1996 PHartlieb@aol.com wrote:

> Oldsmobile has their own site on
> AOL that is much better.  Not only do they have product info, they also have
> bulletin boards dedicated to each Olds model as well as a Classic Oldsmobiles
> and a swap shop.  You can even send E-mail directly to Olds.  For AOL users,
> GO Oldsmobile.

What is their URL? Are their available from the level of Internet?

thanks

Piotr

------------------------------

From: Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 07:57:31 -0300
Subject: Re: Historical Info

>>         By the way, how many Canadians are out there?
>> 
>> __________________________________________________________
>> S.G. Hartfelder		| Internet: stanh@compusmart.ab.ca
>
>My reference says 27,300,000.


Hee, Hee, Hee.....


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Michael R. Hall                            Ortonville, Michigan
E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com
Owner: 1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
Owner: 1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...
Owner: 1994 GMC Sonoma Club Coupe SLS Pickup, soon to be "Bravadaized".
         Brought to you by a Apple Power Macintosh 7100/80
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

------------------------------

From: Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 07:57:28 -0300
Subject: Re: Rear end

>Also what are "NOS" parts?  Apparently _NOT_ nitrous oxide...


NOS = New Old Stock, or in summary, new parts that have been sitting on 
a shelf for years...


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Michael R. Hall                            Ortonville, Michigan
E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com
Owner: 1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
Owner: 1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...
Owner: 1994 GMC Sonoma Club Coupe SLS Pickup, soon to be "Bravadaized".
         Brought to you by a Apple Power Macintosh 7100/80
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

------------------------------

From: Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 08:07:43 -0300
Subject: Re: Who is interested

>I was just wondering how much interest there would be in splitting this
>group into 2 (or more) categories such as performance and restoration or
>whatever?


No interest here...


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Michael R. Hall                            Ortonville, Michigan
E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com
Owner: 1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
Owner: 1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...
Owner: 1994 GMC Sonoma Club Coupe SLS Pickup, soon to be "Bravadaized".
         Brought to you by a Apple Power Macintosh 7100/80
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 09:09:33 -0300
Subject: E-head cc, misc.

Well, I cc'd the unmolested E head last night. Gosh, 85cc ?!?!?! And it won't
stay full.... Doh! the intake valve is leaking a bit... start over, after
removing and greasing the valves... And the answer is: 81cc, just like the
others...

- ----
buildup, though, I became savvy about the .500" lift ceiling on the stock
bridge-strap rocker setup on Olds motors. Just recently, however, someone
mentioned using the JM20-22 cam, which has an exhaust lift of over .500".

So what is the *real* limit? is it exactly .500", or .520", or .535"? Or do
you have to measure each individually? Can you use shims to go over .500"?

Well, when I was checking my engine for retainer-guide interference & all that,
I also checked rocker travel- stock rockers. found the rocker-pedestal
interference to occur at about 0.700" or so. However, there might be
pushrod-head contact or whatever at a lower valve lift.
- --Chris--

- --SB heads--
I noticed that, too...my 69 has #5 heads also (not 5a)
Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

In the interest of more complete version of correct information, here's a
fairly good version of what SB Olds heads are what, most cc figures from
Mondello's catalog, which is known to have the occasional typo or just plain
lack of information or even misinformation...


MODEL   YEAR            CASTING #       ID      DISPLACEMENT

330     1964            3317            5A      67 c.c.
330     1965           3317            5A      67 c.c.
330     1966           3317            5A      67 c.c.
330     1967           3317            5A      67 c.c.
330     1967           3317            5A      67 c.c.
330     1967           3317            5A      67 c.c.
330     1967           3317            5A      67 c.c.

307     80-85           3317            5A      67 c.c.
307     86              0142            7A      64
350     71              409-147         7       70
350     72              409-147         7a      70*^
350     71-76           411-929         8       81
350     77-80           554-716         3A      75
403     77-79           554-717         4A      83

*^ Note: presumably the same chamber volume as the other 409147's. However, the
7a's [tiny subscript capital "A"] have hard xst seat inserts, Ii believe, soon
to know for sure...

*# Dunno where this figure came from- in my catalog it's the D's listed as much
smaller chamber. I will assert that all BB heads were 80cc +/- 1 or 2 cc. Any
less were factory or aftermarket [Demmer?] shaved for more compression. I have
in my possession a set of NOS E heads, will cc them soon.

For a list of other Big Block heads, consult the Guide... or wait for the FAQ.
Or email me...

 --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 09:13:44 -0300
Subject: Re: JC Whitney 

At 12:03 AM 4/16/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Just wondering...has anybody ever had a problem with JC Whitney
>service/quality, etc.?  I was thinking of ordering some engine parts from
>them.  I've never ordered from them before, and wanted to kinda check them
>out before I did.  My brother-in-law ordered some parts from them a few
>years ago, and as I recall, I think most parts he ordered were name brand,
>though there are not a lot of name brands mentioned in their catalog...
>
>Thanks again!
>--
>Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
>dpauliso@metrolink.net
>

I've ordered several times from Whitney without a problem.  I've never
ordered mechanical parts, only tools and soft goods (carpeting, twice,
and a car cover).  In all instances, the items were of good quality and
arrived when Whitney said they would.


************************************************
Daniel A. Gulino
Associate Professor and Graduate Chairman
Department of Chemical Engineering
Ohio University
Athens, Ohio  45701-2979
(614) 593-1495
(614) 593-0873 (fax)
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://www.ent.ohiou.edu/che/faculty/gulino.html
************************************************

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 09:33:03 -0300
Subject: E-head cc, misc *comp;ete*

I Hate when the computer locks up & you have to restart....

> Well, I cc'd the unmolested E head last night. Gosh, 85cc ?!?!?! And it won't
> stay full.... Doh! the intake valve is leaking a bit... start over, after
> removing and greasing the valves... And the answer is: 81cc, just like the
> others...
>
> ----
> buildup, though, I became savvy about the .500" lift ceiling on the stock
> bridge-strap rocker setup on Olds motors. Just recently, however, someone
> mentioned using the JM20-22 cam, which has an exhaust lift of over .500".
>
> So what is the *real* limit? is it exactly .500", or .520", or .535"? Or do
> you have to measure each individually? Can you use shims to go over .500"?
>

Chris responds:
> Well, when I was checking my engine for retainer-guide interference & all that
> I also checked rocker travel- stock rockers. found the rocker-pedestal
> interference to occur at about 0.700" or so. However, there might be
> pushrod-head contact or whatever at a lower valve lift.
> --Chris--
>
> --SB heads--
> I noticed that, too...my 69 has #5 heads also (not 5a)
> Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
> dpauliso@metrolink.net
>
> In the interest of more complete version of correct information, here's a
> fairly good version of what SB Olds heads are what, most cc figures from
> Mondello's catalog, which is known to have the occasional typo or just plain
> lack of information or even misinformation...

There's undoubtedly a few typo's and errors in here, to, but we strive for
perfection... for instance, the previous version listed the #7 heads as having
more cc than shown here...

>
> MODEL   YEAR            CASTING #       ID      DISPLACEMENT
>
> 330     1964                            1       ?? c.c.
> 330     1965                            2       ?? c.c.
> 330     1966            389394          3       60 c.c.
> 330     1967            394497          4       60 c.c.
>
> 350     1968-9          397742          5       64 c.c.
> 350     1970            403859          6       64 c.c.
> 350     71              409147          7       64
> 350     72              409147          7a      64*^
> 350     73-76           411929          8       79
>
> 350     76              550362          10      57
> 350     77-80           554716          3A      75
> 403     77-79           554717          4A      83
> 307     80-85           3317            5A      67 c.c.
> 307     86-90           0142            7A      64
>
> *^ Note: presumably the same chamber volume as the other 409147's. However, th
> 7a's [tiny subscript capital "A"] have hard xst seat inserts, Ii believe, soon
> to know for sure...

Nother note: there's 7A heads, and 7a heads, 5A, but no 5a... due to the
constraints of this medium, where a subscript cannot be shown, I try to imitate
it with a lower case "a"... That is:
7a, the 1972 heads, have a tiny capital "A" set subscript to the usual large
"7", whereas the later 7A heads have a large capital "A" adjacent to and same
size as the usual "7". Clear?

>
> For a list of other Big Block heads, consult the Guide... or wait for the FAQ.
> Or email me...
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: tmorris@BT1DC18E.bet.ibm.com
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 11:15:48 -0300
Subject: Balancing an engine 

Hey guys, I'm looking at buying a 71 442 that had its engine rebuilt around 10K
ago.  Problem is that it was not balanced when rebuilt, although it appears 
quality parts were used in the rebuild by a knowledgeable Olds mechanic.

It was built as a fairly mild street machine (10:1 pistons, Blue Wolverine cam,
Performer, Qjet, no headers, valve job, same rods) and I intend to use it that
way--no racing
or strip time really.  So, the question is, how serious is it that the engine 
wasn't balanced?  Implications for longevity and smoothness???

Todd Morris
Still looking for a 442 4 sp and can't wait for Carlisle this weekend.....

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 11:14:13 -0300
Subject: carlilse 

so who will be there?  if you see a guy with a shaved head walking around
with a one legged guy....the shaved head is mine and the other guy is my dad...
                    zack
      ___
     /. .\
    _\_*_/_                     -<Buddha>-
   / /   \ \                   Buddha@itw.com
   \_\___/_/            HTTP://www2.itw.com/~buddha/
  /___\_/___\ "That which does not kill us makes us stronger"
 *************

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 02:14:02 -0300
Subject: Re: Charging paint?

Jeff Hunter wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> 
> I once heard that some body shops charge paint and body panels, + -,
> or - +.  Is this true, and how do you do it?
> 

Is true.  By charging, the paint is "attracted" to the body panels.  
Sticks better and less overspray.  I've seen the same method used by 
companies who come in and repaint office files right in the office.

Don't have the details but the next time I see Terry Moyer, my paint & 
body expert, I'll find if it can be done on the cheap.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 02:07:11 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds Classified

Re: Olds classified page @ http://ep.com/s/ca/old.html

Yeah, I know about clicking.  Sunday afternoon I got a 404,  Monday 
morning I got a 404, then last night it worked ok.

Dunno.  FM?

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Doug Ahern <doug@cobra.cosmic.uga.edu>
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 11:53:03 -0300
Subject: Olds nats

Olds Nats 96

I know its a ways off, sometime in August I believe, but I wanted to
bring up a few things before then.

I live 30 minutes from the commerce drags in Athens.  If anyone is planning
to go, but doesn't have firm lodging plans, I recommend staying down
here in Athens.  Its a college town with a lot of great food (5 italian
joints downtown alone, 3 with incredible pizza,  thai food, mexican,
you name it)..  and a lot of decent clean hotels.  plus if you are up
for it, about 15 bars downtown.  There are also some camp grounds
within a 1/2 drive of commerce,  some with full shower facilities.
If anyone would like to know of some good camping spots in the North
Georgia mountains, let me know.

I can also recommend a lot for really good bbq in the area...

I know the area well, so if I can be of any help, let me know.  There is
also a good possiblity that I'll be able to put a couple of people up at
my place, if anyone would be interested (I'm having guess during the 
Olympics, and I'm almost 98% that they will have cleared out by the
weekend of the Olds Nats, I'll know for sure in the next week or two..)


Doug Ahern      doug@cosmic.uga.edu  1964 F-85 Cutlass 
http://www.cosmic.uga.edu/doug.html  1969 Dart 
Sys Admin, COSMIC, Univ. of Georgia  1974 Satellite ex-cop car

------------------------------

From: Paul Elosge <elosge@eco.twg.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 13:41:58 -0300
Subject: RE: Tempest, Buick Special, Olds F-85 & Toronado

isagil <isagil@cam.org> writes:

 > 1) Does anybody know how many of these cars were built?

These B-O-P compacts (F-85, Tempest, Special) were quite commonplace
in the early/mid 1960s. I believe these three sort of introduced the
whole class of car called "intermediate", and were followed by the
Mercury Meteor/Ford Fairlane, Dodge Coronet/Plymouth Belvedere,
and Chevrolet Chevelle a couple of years later.

 > 2) What about the Toronado? I see a lot of Toros around here, what was 
 > the original idea behind that car back in the mid-sixties? How come the 
 > Eldorado came in 67, (apparently) one year after the Toronado? Is there 
 > any link between the two cars?

To some extent, each division of GM got to do something wild on
occasion. The Toronado was Oldsmobile's turn. The idea behind it?
Obviously some connection historically to the Cord. The innovative
Toronado really shored up Oldsmobile's image, the last major coup
being the Rocket V-8. The personal luxury coupe was still a rather new
class of car, the first being the original Lincoln Mark II perhaps,
followed by the four seat Thunderbird, followed by the Riviera. The
Eldorado was delayed a year so that Oldsmobile would get the full
status benefit from the technology introduction, without having it
diluted by a concurrent Cadillac introduction. From what I understood,
the Toronado and Eldorado are very close mechanically with the
exception of the engine itself. Following the Eldorado was the Lincoln
Mark III, and at a more affordable level, the Gran Prix and Monte
Carlo.

The original 1966 Toronado was a big hit (about 40,000?), but sales
dropped off significantly after the first year (dropped by about
half?), slowly regaining ground later. 40,000 was a big number for
that class of car... it was expensive, and I'm not sure if it even
mattered whether it made money since it was a kind of flagship that
helped sell all the other models. Hell, when I was a kid, my father's
lowly 1966 F-85 (which later became mine) was sort of a mini
Toronado... the lines were somewhat similar (I know I'm stretching
here!), and the little 330 V-8 looked just like the big 425 V-8
(ignoring the single snorkel air cleaner with the 2 bbl underneath).
To put production numbers in perspective... the Mustang sold 500,000
in 1965, the big Chevy sold 1,400,000!

- - Paul Elosge (elosge@eco.twg.com)

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #149
********************************

