
oldsmobile-digest          Wednesday, 15 May 1996       Volume 01 : Number 175


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 18:45:36 -0300
Subject: Re: battery drain/windows

Tom Lentz wrote:
> 
> If you have an ammeter, pull the fuse and measure across the fuse
> terminals with everything off.
> 
> If you don't have an ammeter, just pull the fuse to the power windows
> and wait a few days to see if the drain stops.  If the power drain is
> fixed, you've isolated that circuit.

You betcha.

BUT ... I seems like everytime I fix something, I break something else.  
The problem might be elsewhere unintentionally caused by the repair.  I'd 
also pull the negative battery at night.  If it weak/dead in the morning, 
BATTERY!  If not, I'd go through the fuses one at a time as Tom said.


The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 00:55:21 -0300
Subject: Re: Oil Pump Drive Rods

Pat Clark 952-3776 wrote:
> 
>         When you pull a distributor out of an engine, is the hex shaped drive
> rod designed to stay in the oil pump or come out with the distributor?
> 

Pat it's supposed stay in the engine. Did it come out?


Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 15:55:08 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Out for a Drive Today

On Mon, 13 May 1996 peter_teubel@mail.hanks.com wrote:
>         I can't explain the prices listed...they always seemd way above 
> actual market conditions, IMHO.  Maybe these people see these prices and think 
> they can get top dollar for their iron....I dunno....

I think a lot of it is the psychology of the old-car magazines themselves.
Cars and Parts is especially guilty of this. They focus on selling prices
at auctions and so on, and I really don't think those are reflective of
most of the market in general. But they probably like their readers to
think that their old car is worth the big bucks the show cars at auction
attract, or to think that a parts car is still worth a thou or two. You're
more likely to be a happy reader if you think the hulk rusting away out
back is worth a few thou rather than the truth that it isn't worth much at
all. I always shake my head when I see something like, "58 Chevy convert,
extremely rusty, no floors, no trunk, glass bad, original 348 car, no
engine or trans, good title, needs everything, $6000." Yet you see stuff
like that advertised all the time. Sheesh... 

In the old-car biz where the supply and demand are both relatively 
limited, I would think that prices would tend to be extremely volatile 
based on the vagaries of the local market. Around here the potential 
number of buyers for a given old car is maybe a couple of hundred people. 
If none of them are in the market, the value of that car here is a lot 
less than any value guide would peg it at. OTOH, if it happens to appeal 
to several of them at the same time, maybe I get lucky and get top 
dollar. 

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 18:45:36 -0300
Subject: Re: battery drain/windows

Tom Lentz wrote:
> 
> If you have an ammeter, pull the fuse and measure across the fuse
> terminals with everything off.
> 
> If you don't have an ammeter, just pull the fuse to the power windows
> and wait a few days to see if the drain stops.  If the power drain is
> fixed, you've isolated that circuit.

You betcha.

BUT ... I seems like everytime I fix something, I break something else.  
The problem might be elsewhere unintentionally caused by the repair.  I'd 
also pull the negative battery at night.  If it weak/dead in the morning, 
BATTERY!  If not, I'd go through the fuses one at a time as Tom said.


The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 16:04:15 -0300
Subject: Re: Oil Pump Drive Rods 

In a message dated 96-05-13 13:27:59 EDT, you write:

>	When you pull a distributor out of an engine, is the hex shaped drive
>rod designed to stay in the oil pump or come out with the distributor?
>
>

There _should_ be a retainer on the rod just below the casting inside the
block where the distributor gear and rod meet.  It could be gone because it
was left off at the factory (not likely) or was removed during a previous
rebuild.  Even then it should not have been removed unless the bottom end was
buttoned up without the drive rod (it's actually a hex shaped solid shaft)
installed.  In that case instead of taking the pan and oil pump off one could
remove the retainer rings and drop the rod in from above before installing
the distributor.

It shouldn't come out with the distributor, in fact if those retaining rings
are still on it would be damn difficult, if not next to impossible to get it
out.  The retainers are an interference fit and how could you grab the shaft
to pull on it?

Bob Handren
'67 W-30 Modified
'70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 15:56:55 -0300
Subject: Re: Oil Pump Drive Rods

At 02:17 PM 5/13/96 -0300, you wrote:
>	When you pull a distributor out of an engine, is the hex shaped drive
>rod designed to stay in the oil pump or come out with the distributor?
>
Should stay in, but years of turning the distributor can cause it to wear
and stick inside the distributor, causing the shaft to come out with the
distrubutor.  There is little press on retainer on the shaft between the oil
pump and the block, down inside the engine, which is supposed to hold the
shaft in the engine.  The retainer was either removed by a previous
owner/mechanic when they pulled the distributor, or came off when you pulled
the distributor.  It's probably in the bottom of your oil pan now, but
shouldn't hurt anything.  I think the worst thing that can happen is the
retainer can get stuck on the oil pickup screen on the oil pump.  You'll
probably have to use a pair of needle-nose pliers or something to put the
shaft back in.  Make sure it goes down into the oil pump.  Should be OK once
it's back together.
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

 "I was put on this earth to accomplish a certain number of things;
    right now I'm so far behind, I'll never die"  --Calvin

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 15:46:50 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: misc. stuffs 

>>  The trace amounts (antifreeze) that I can't catch do get washed into the 
>>     environment, but with plenty of water. [-- ACG]
>>     
[...]
>Remember, this stuff is otherwise poisonous.  Dogs for instance find it sweet
>but it is deadly and the death is slow.  Avoid doing anything that would
>allow it to be ingested such as dumping on land where folks use wells for
>drinking water or where it can pool and animals could drink it.

Right, I whizzed over this subject before, but it wouldn't hurt to go into
it a bit more...

What someone else said here reminded me of a local announcement saying the
same thing: It is preferable to dump old antifreeze into the _toilet_ as
opposed to the storm drain since the toilet leads to a sanitary sewer and
eventual waste treatment (we're not talking about septic tanks here),
whereas the storm sewer goes... well, I'm not sure where it goes, but I
know in some cases of major downfall they just let the stuff go into Lake
Michigan.

Realistically I know that whether or not _my_ coolant goes into the sewer
won't make one iota of difference when you consider what else is getting
washed in there off the roads each day, but if they want me to pour it in
the sanitary drain instead so they can have a stab at filtering it out of 
the environment, fine; I'm all in favor of doing it properly.

And I still make sure I wash the spillover away with _lots_ of water.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 17:59:25 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: 1970 Delta 88 Custom 

Careful.  In '70, a 9:1 2bbl, 10.25:1 2bbl and  a 10.25:1 4bbl were 
available among the 455 Rocket engines.  Not that the difference is much, 
just something to be aware of.  

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    "Oldsmobile - powerful roadsters with big V8s"
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu

- ---------------------
>>Is it true that the 1970 455 rocket was the last of the "high compression"
>>engines. 
>>
>
>Yes, the stock compression of the 1970 455 was 10.5 to 1.  In 1971, the
>compression dropped to 8.5 to 1.  Quite a change!!
>--
>Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
>dpauliso@metrolink.net
>
> "I was put on this earth to accomplish a certain number of things;
>    right now I'm so far behind, I'll never die"  --Calvin

------------------------------

From: JK McCall <jkmccall@clic.net>
Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 17:42:47 -0300
Subject: Re: HEI

Andrew C. Green wrote:

> 
> An '82 Delta 88 with a tach? I didn't think they even bothered to put
> _temperature_ gauges on the Delta 88s back in those days; does the
> owner's manual show a tach?
>

No, no tach, but they could come with bat, temp and oil gauges...
 
> My guess is that the tach connector is used to deliver the tach signal
> to the ECM, without which you get a Check Engine light on the dash and
> a Code 12 in diagnostics, 

Don't have check engine light.... Code Y, 307 Cdn built.


> So I would guess that the wire you see goes to the ECM, and you won't find
> it leading to the back of the dashboard. (You could try disconnecting it
> with the engine running and see if you get a Check Engine light...)

Tried that, no lights. 
Between the owners manual, the cdn supplement and Haynes, now I'm all mixed up...


JK McCall

------------------------------

From: peter_teubel@mail.hanks.com
Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 19:05:21 -0300
Subject: Re[4]: Out for a Drive Today 

     No offense taken <g>.  But that's why I *CHOSE* this car.  4-door 
     sedans are always cheaper so it made a great starting point for 
     myself.  Perhaps one day I'll restify a convertable, but budgetary 
     restrictions (for now) restrict me to the 4-door variety.
     
     Besides, how many 4-door '51 Olds 98s does one see on the road as a 
     daily driver?.......<G>.........


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Out for a Drive Today
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at SMTP
Date:    5/13/96 2:00 PM


At 03:24 PM 5/13/96 -0300, you wrote:
>        Well, for what its worth, my '51 *IS* a 4-door sedan. 
>     
>        I can't explain the prices listed...they always seemd way above 
>actual market conditions, IMHO.  Maybe these people see these prices and think 
>they can get top dollar for their iron....I dunno....
>
>Pete
>'51 98
     
By the way, I didn't mean to impugn the good name of your car by calling 
4-door cars "mundane."  It's just that this body style is always the lowest 
priced one in the Old Cars Price Guide.
     
     
************************************************ 
Daniel A. Gulino
Associate Professor and Graduate Chairman 
Department of Chemical Engineering
Ohio University
Athens, Ohio  45701-2979
(614) 593-1495
(614) 593-0873 (fax)
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://www.ent.ohiou.edu/che/faculty/gulino.html 
************************************************
     
     

------------------------------

From: Albert Levi Ball <alball@interramp.com>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 11:58:44 -0300
Subject: RE: 307 V8

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB415A.8CC36BA0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Tom My 307 on my older 1988 cutlass has roller cams but i put a =
edlebrock preformer intake on it...currently it has 30,000 miles on that =
install and no damage to the eng. It gained some horseies but more =
noticeable was the gas milage....went from 26 to 28 on the hwy....know =
of anybody in the houston area that does quality work on the 307??=20

- ----------
From: 	Tom Lentz[SMTP:tlentz@teknon.com]
Sent: 	Monday, May 13, 1996 5:25 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Re: 307 V8


     Eh?  Are you trying to say you have TBI on your truck, which is=20
     powered by an Olds 307!?  Do tell us more!
    =20
     Anyways, the 350 intake will fit on 307's up through '85.  From '85 =

     on, they're roller cams and use different (7A) heads.  I think both =

     were available in '85, so you'll have to check the heads if it's an =

     '85.  If the heads are 5A's, go for it.  You may need to do a bit =
of=20
     port matching since the 307 heads will probably have smaller =
intakes=20
     than the 350 heads the manifold came from.
    =20
     Tom L.

______________________________ Reply Separator =
_________________________________
Subject: 307 V8
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    5/12/96 7:54 PM


ok...will a 350 intake fit on a letr model 307?  i need to know this as =
to=20
keep the SMOG legality on my truck...and would the heads also fit...i =
might=20
have to use the heads as some were special to TBI...
                    zack
      ___
     /. .\
    _\_*_/_                     -<Buddha>-
   / /   \ \                   Buddha@itw.com=20
   \_\___/_/            HTTP://www2.itw.com/~buddha/
  /___\_/___\ "That which does not kill us makes us stronger"
 *************
    =20
    =20



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------------------------------

From: Rocketeer <bparker@nmsu.edu>
Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 18:35:54 -0300
Subject: Re: Restoration Stuff

> 
> >Does anyone know what finish the (gowdawfully poor designed) hood hinges 
> >on a '68 should be? The underhood where they attach is black, so I 
> >suppose the hinges could be too, or body color (doubtful), cast 
> >gray/natural, cad-plated, I dunno. I can't tell with mine what they used to 
> >be. Ideas? 
> 
> I's like to know what the stuff used on hood hinges is too.  It doesn't look
> or feel like paint but some kind of antirust coating.  NOS or good original
> hood hinges on mid '60's to early '70's appear dark grey, almost black and
> somewhat rough, like a finger nail board the ladies use on the finest side.

The finish you guys are refering to is known as Grey Phosphate. It was 
used on several underhood pieces, the hood latch mechanism is another one 
that comes to mind. 

Eastwood sells a kit that allows you to replate in Grey Phosphate, it is 
bascically a chemical bath with the phosphate applied by electolysis, the 
price is in the $35-50 range if I remember right....

Boyd

------------------------------

From: z28cfi@gwis.com (Jason P. Labay)
Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 19:11:47 -0300
Subject: 442's vs. Buick GN 

I have always wondered why Olds back in the late 80's didn't develop an
engine to go up against the Buick Grand National's 3.8 V6 Turbo. I love the
late 80's 442's, but the 307's that came with them come up way short
compared to a stock 86 or 87 GN. Olds could have at least purchased some 3.8
turbos from Buick and dropped them in the 442's to give it some life. That
is what Pontiac did with the 1989 Turbo Trans/Am. Has Olds ever produced a
V6 with the power potential of the 3.8 Buick turbo? I brought this up
because I went to the dragstrip the other day with the Z/28 for test-n-tune
and went up against a 1987 442 and had no problem beating him in the quarter
and I had hook up trouble off the start. His best time of the day was a
15.8. Mine was only 14.6 : ( 

Jason Labay
1988 Z/28
1975 Hurst/Olds

------------------------------

From: glenn connors <gpc442@buffnet.net>
Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 14:20:50 -0300
Subject: Re: battery drain/windows

>
>     If you have an ammeter, pull the fuse and measure across the fuse 
>     terminals with everything off.
>     
>     If you don't have an ammeter, just pull the fuse to the power windows 
>     and wait a few days to see if the drain stops.  If the power drain is 
>     fixed, you've isolated that circuit.
>
>
>______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
>Subject: battery drain/windows
>Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
>Date:    5/13/96 9:25 AM
>
>     
>The fuses aren't blown for the windows since the installation, but I'm 
>wondering if I'm getting a small short-just enough to drain the battery 
>over a period of time.  Is these a systematic way to locate a short?
>     
>I have a decent ohmeter to check things out.  
>     
>
>
    You might also try removing the negative terminal from the battery and
then with a volt/multimeter check for voltage from a good ground point on
the body to the negetive post on the battery  (remember to do this with the
neg. cable removed)  If you read even the slightest amount of voltage you've
confirmed your short/leak.  Then one by one you can begin unplugging
components until you read 0 volts.  That will find the source for you.
Don't overlook the interior light switches in the door jams. Even though the
interior lamp isn't lit there can be a substantial draw via a bad lamp
socket that results in a low battery over time.


Glenn
'69 4-4-2   (and still not on the road) 

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 19:38:13 -0300
Subject: Re: 307 V8 

At 15.13 05,13,96 -0300, you wrote:
>In a message dated 96-05-13 13:27:59 EDT, you write:
>
>>use a 350 intake and heads if need be...the question tis will 87-up 350
>>heads fit on a 307?i need to use the same heads to match the TBI intake...
>
>Uh, oh, methinks he's talking about that *other*, inferior, small-block that
>GM used, also displaced 5.0 or 5.7 liters like the proper Olds small-block.
>Now who made that thing, let me think...
>
>Anyway, if you have one of those misfits with TBI, forget it, you can't use
>it on the real small-block.
>
>


well then, was there ever a 307 with TBI?
                    zack

      ___
     /. .\
    _\_*_/_                     -<Buddha>-
   / /   \ \                   Buddha@itw.com
   \_\___/_/            HTTP://www2.itw.com/~buddha/
  /___\_/___\ "That which does not kill us makes us stronger"
 *************

------------------------------

From: Nick DiGiovanni <ndigiova@direct.ca>
Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 18:33:38 -0300
Subject: Re: Factory Cutlass low-riders? 

At 03:45 PM 5/9/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Has anyone ever noticed something about factory pictures of the '68-'72
>Cutlasses? The rears look like the springs have 400,000 miles on them, the
>way they are sagging back there! Was this the way the cars were actually
>delivered, or did the camera crew just have all their gear in the trunk at
>the time?
>
>I had noticed this before, but it just caught my attention in the factory
>pictures Year One has in its catalog; I have seen it in other pictures as
>well.

I was looking through many of the factory pictures of that era and noticed
the same thing.  I also noticed that all of the cars in these "pictures"
looked perfect and flawless.  There are no huge gaps were two pieces of
chrome join together, all the hoods fit like a glove (especially the Ram Air
Hoods).  I decided to give a friend of mine (who is quite knowledgeable
regarding automobiles and of that era in particular) a call regarding this.
He said that at that time, all of the automobile manufacturers wanted their
cars to appear lower, wider and longer.  In order to get this look, they got
professional air brush artists to modifiy the pictures so that they were in
fact lower, wider and longer.  It was just another advertising gimmick to
sell the image.  If you look at the picture very carefully you can see that
it is not as clear and crisp as a photograph would be.  Hope this helps.

  
Nick DiGiovanni
Port Coquitlam, B.C.
1970 4-4-2 - "Snarls Softly and Carries a Big Kick"

------------------------------

From: Bob Valentine <ravalent@liii.com>
Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 19:51:54 -0300
Subject: Re: HEI wires and Boat Names

> 	Put the HEI in my car this weekend. First thing I noticed is that the
> old plug wires do not work on the HEI cap. The HEI plug in leg of the 90 deg
> wire is much too long to plug up and slide over the exposed clips ( in othe
     
    Ooops...  guess we forgot to tell you that HEI wires are different 
than P&C wires.   ;^)   Get a new set today.  

> the other thing I noticed is that the clips do not snap on very tight. Does the
> top hold down plate insure good contact with the wires?

    Really more that it keeps them from coming off. Factory wires have a 
little knob at the top of the wire that snaps into the hold down plate.  
Frankly, I've never run a plate on any of my HEI's, and I've yet to have 
a wire pop off.

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                    --> ravalent@liii.com  <--
        "Experience varies directly with equipment ruined"

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 20:55:00 -0300
Subject: Humor 

This is being sent to the list on the premise it relates to the car
nut/computer nerd discussions.  It's weak but this is a pretty good
collection anyway.

>   Be nice to your kids.  They'll choose your nursing home.
>   Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.
>   3 kinds of people: those who can count & those who can't.
>   Sign on baby's bib: SPIT HAPPENS.
>   Why is "abbreviation" such a long word?
>   Don't use a big word where a diminutive one will suffice.
>   Every morning is the dawn of a new error.
>   A flying saucer results when a nudist spills his coffee.
>   For people who like peace and quiet: a phoneless cord.
>   I can see clearly now, the brain is gone.
>   The beatings will continue until morale improves.
>   I used up all my sick days, so I'm calling in dead.
>   Mental Floss prevents Moral Decay.
>   Madness takes its toll.  Please have exact change.
>   Proofread carefully to see if you any words out.
>   There cannot be a crisis today; my schedule is already full.
>   I'd explain it to you, but your brain would explode.
>   Ever stop to think, and forget to start again?
>   A conclusion is simply the place where you got tired of thinking.
>   I don't have a solution but I admire the problem.
>   Don't be so open-minded your brains fall out.
>   If at first you DO succeed, try not to look astonished!
>   Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie!'... till you can find a
rock.
>   Diplomacy - the art of letting someone have your way.
>   If one synchronized swimmer drowns, do the rest have to drown too?
>   If things get any worse, I'll have to ask you to stop helping me.
>   If I want your opinion, I'll ask you to fill out the necessary forms.
>   Don't look back, they might be gaining on you.
>   It's not hard to meet expenses, they're everywhere.
>   Help Wanted: Telepath.  You know where to apply.
>   Look out for #1.  Don't step in #2.
>   Budget: A method for going broke methodically.
>   Car service:  If it ain't broke, we'll break it.
>   Shin: A device for finding furniture in the dark.
>   Do witches run spell checkers?
>   Demons are a Ghouls best Friend.
>   Copywight 1994 Elmer Fudd.  All wights wesewved.
>   Dain bramaged.
>   Department of Redundancy Department
>   Headline: Bear takes over Disneyland in Pooh D'Etat!
>   What has four legs and an arm?  A happy pit bull.
>   Cannot find REALITY.SYS. Universe halted.
>   COFFEE.EXE Missing - Insert Cup and Press Any Key
>    Buy a Pentium 586/90 so you can reboot faster.
>   2 + 2 = 5 for extremely large values of 2.
>   Computers make very fast, very accurate mistakes.
>   Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are.
>   My software never has bugs.  It just develops random features.
>   C:\WINDOWS C:\WINDOWS\GO C:\PC\CRAWL
>   C:\DOS   C:\DOS\RUN   RUN\DOS\RUN
>   <-------- The information went data way -------->
>   Best file compression around:  "DEL *.*" = 100% compression
>   The Definition of an Upgrade: Take old bugs out, put new ones in.
>   BREAKFAST.COM Halted...Cereal Port Not Responding
>   The name is Baud......, James Baud.
>   BUFFERS=20 FILES=15 2nd down, 4th quarter, 5 yards to go!
>    Access denied--nah nah na nah nah!
>   C:\> Bad command or file name! Go stand in the corner.
>   Bad command. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaay..
>   Why doesn't DOS ever say "EXCELLENT command or filename!"
>   As a computer, I find your faith in technology amusing.
>   Southern DOS: Y'all reckon? (Yep/Nope)
>   Backups? We don' *NEED* no steenking backups.
>   E Pluribus Modem
>   ... File not found. Should I fake it? (Y/N)
>   Ethernet (n): something used to catch the etherbunny
>   A mainframe: The biggest PC peripheral available.
>   An error?  Impossible!  My modem is error correcting.
>   CONGRESS.SYS Corrupted:  Re-boot Washington D.C (Y/n)?
>   Does fuzzy logic tickle?
>   A computer's attention span is as long as it's power cord.
>   11th commandment - Covet not thy neighbor's Pentium.
>   24 hours in a day...24 beers in a case...coincidence?
>   Disinformation is not as good as datinformation.
>   Windows: Just another pane in the glass.
>   SENILE.COM found . . . Out Of Memory . . .
>   Who's General Failure & why's he reading my disk?
>   Ultimate office automation: networked coffee.
>   RAM disk is *not* an installation procedure.
>   Shell to DOS...Come in DOS, do you copy? Shell to DOS...
>   All computers wait at the same speed.
>   DEFINITION: Computer - A device designed to speed and automate errors.
>   Press <CTRL>-<ALT>-<DEL> to continue ...
>   Smash forehead on keyboard to continue.....
>   Enter any 11-digit prime number to continue...
>   ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI!
>   E-mail returned to sender -- insufficient voltage.
>   Help! I'm modeming... and I can't hang up!!!
>   All wiyht. Rho sritched mg kegtops awound?
>   Error: Keyboard not attached. Press F1 to continue.
>   "640K ought to be enough for anybody." - Bill Gates, 1981
>   DOS Tip #17: Add DEVICE=FNGRCROS.SYS to CONFIG.SYS
>   Hidden DOS secret: add BUGS=OFF to your CONFIG.SYS
>   Press any key... no, no, no, NOT THAT ONE!
>   Press any key to continue or any other key to quit.
>   Excuse me for butting in, but I'm interrupt-driven.

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 16:48:45 -0300
Subject: Re: Out for a Drive Today

Daniel Gulino wrote:
> 
> 
> This is what I would have thought.  How do you explain, then, the high prices
> for these cars, even mundane four-door sedans, listed in the Old Cars Price
> Guide?  Cars in #5 condition (#6 is the worst...essentially just a parts
> car) are listed at $1400-1600.  #6 cars are listed at $300-500.
> 
> ************************************************
> Daniel A. Gulino
> Associate Professor and Graduate Chairman
> Department of Chemical Engineering
> Ohio University
> Athens, Ohio  45701-2979
> (614) 593-1495
> (614) 593-0873 (fax)
> gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
> http://www.ent.ohiou.edu/che/faculty/gulino.html
> ************************************************

Daniel:

I always take those guides as only that - a guide.  They have been way 
off before.  I remember a couple of years ago they had the Javelin worth 
much more than an AMX.  The only thing that I know is to actually see a 
car sold for X dollars and then think about it.  The truth is that a car 
is only worth what a person will pay.  Even 1957 Chevrolet sedan's get 
only 1/4 to 1/3 what a hardtop gets.

To show how far off values can be, a fellow at the Lincoln Contintntal 
Nationals had $160,000 in a 1956 Premiere convertible.  It was a nice 
car (of course) but the max that I have heard a car of that type get is 
$50,000-$60,000.  Some people would expect to get out what they have in 
a car.  That doesn't always happen.

Bill Culp

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 21:42:27 -0300
Subject: test

Just testing...suspecting error in my mail software...
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

 "I was put on this earth to accomplish a certain number of things;
    right now I'm so far behind, I'll never die"  --Calvin

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 17:00:11 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Out for a Drive Today

Daniel Gulino wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>   But come to think
> of it, where does Old Cars get the data for their price guide?
> 
> Certainly they're not privy to every transaction that takes place.  
> I don't know.
> 
> ************************************************
> Daniel A. Gulino
> Associate Professor and Graduate Chairman
> Department of Chemical Engineering
> Ohio University
> Athens, Ohio  45701-2979
> (614) 593-1495
> (614) 593-0873 (fax)
> gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
> http://www.ent.ohiou.edu/che/faculty/gulino.html
> ************************************************

Daniel:

I understand that they get their information from auctions.  They are 
supposed to use only sold cars to establish the value but we all have 
heard of shills there.  The person selling his car wants $5,000 and the 
bidding stops at $2500.  His shill bids on to $5000, but not enough to 
buy it and the car goes home with everyone thinking that its worth more 
than $2500.  At the next auction the seller says he got nearly $5,000 at 
auction "X" and the bidders fall into the idea that it might really be 
worth the $5,000.  Someone buys it.  I can see why values are all 
distorted, but the auctions are the easy way to get some idea, even if 
an inflated one. 

Bill Culp

------------------------------

From: Dan Williams <dr_olds@kfmw.net>
Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 16:16:29 -0300
Subject: I'm Back!

Hello all!

     I finally made it from New Mexico to Iowa.  Seems like I have 
been away from the list for some time.  I guess it has been 5 months.  
Gee, that is a long time...what took me so long!  Anyway, I noticed 
that there were some new members on the list.  I'm glad to see that.  
We don't want it to get boring around here.
     Right before I left I sold my 68 442 Post Coupe to a friend.  
Hated to get rid of it, but could not move it all the way out here. I 
shipped my other 68 442 out here.  However, for some strange reason 
they delivered it to Iowa City, instead of Cedar Rapids.  I had to go 
down there and drive it here.  I was a little leary of that because it 
had no plates, insurance, brake lights, turn signals and a few other 
things.  Anyway, I drove it here and it ran perfect.  Started right up 
and it really crusied nice on the highway.  I haven't done a thing 
with it since.  The car cover hasn't even been removed.  However, I 
did license it here and get insurance, so I'll have to get it out.
     I'm pretty close to Chicago and the twin cities.  Does anybody 
here know of any shows/swap meets that would be worth going to?  Also, 
I get my receipt of reservations for Lansing 1997.  Hope everybody 
will be there.
     Well, that is it for now.  Don't want to waste too much 
bandwidth.  Just like to finish up with a comment on the web page.  It 
has really come a long way Bryce and looks excellent.  And yes, I do 
have one of the T-shirts.

- -Dan

------------------------------

From: Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 00:15:55 -0300
Subject: Module Madness

I just blew the THIRD electronic module in a year.

I have a Accell HEI (a rebuilt GM HEI) and had nothing but trouble with 
these eletronic modules. Modules have all died while the car was sitting 
outside, that is a odd bit of trivia...

Put a new module in tonight and she started right up... Yes, I did wipe 
the special dielectric grease on the back side of the modulator before 
installing.

I suspect my voltage regulator is tired so I picked up one of those while 
I was at my local parts store. Anybody got a clue as to what is causing 
this? This has happened before and after the engine rebuild. I also 
understand that the module is heat sensitive, it is electronic after 
all... What gives here?

TIA,
Mike


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Michael R. Hall                            Ortonville, Michigan
E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com
Owner: 1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
Owner: 1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...
Owner: 1994 GMC Sonoma Club Coupe SLS Pickup.
         Brought to you by a Apple Power Macintosh 7100/80
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

------------------------------

From: Roger Saladin <rsaladin@bright.net>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 00:21:22 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Out for a Drive Today 

At 02:44 PM 5/13/96 -0300, you wrote:

>Oh, I'm sure that sellers, myself included, always thing that their cars
>are worth more than they really are.  But I would think the Old Cars
>would base their prices on actual selling prices.  But come to think
>of it, where does Old Cars get the data for their price guide?  
>
>Certainly they're not privy to every transaction that takes place.  I'm
>sure that Joe Blow selling his '52 Chevy to Jim Jones out in East Podunk,
>Ohio is not going to report this transaction to the Old Cars people.  Old
>Cars probably relies on ASKING prices seen in newspapers and selling prices
>at public events like auctions, car corrals, and so forth.  

My understanding is that Old Cars relies mostly on auction results, with a 
few prices thrown in from other areas. And in a few years of watching, my
experience has been that they have a good price policy for two things - 
if you need an appraisal for your insurance company, the appraisers
normally use the Price Guide, and if you're buying/selling, cut their
price in half and you have something realistic.

The only exception I can think of is my '72 Cutlass convertible - it's
worth WAY more than they think! :)

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 00:50:51 -0300
Subject: 70 ? Cutlass available

There is here in Lansing, a Cutlass 2-door with a pretty good body, in primer,
for sale, sorta. I left a flier on it, guy called up, he has another car to fix
up, wants oh, 6-700 for this one. Has a '70 rear bumper, I thought it was a 72
Supreme front end- squares in the grille- not sure. Needs TLC, runs & drives,
will look great after paint.

Left a flier with an elderly lady who had an accident with her 73 98... she
called up today, said the towing Co. suggested she simply bring the title to
them, as in hand it  over for free. She didn't think so... I guess her nephew
is going to save it for the engine [J-head 455, runs good] and trans. She's the
original owner...

Padnos: '75 Toro 455... J heads, deep oil pan, fuel line still serviceable.
Might have the Nodular crank. Still turns- a little.

- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 01:52:58 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: misc. stuffs

Anyone know the specifics of propylene glycol?  From what I hear it's a 
greener antifreeze and it costs a few bucks more than ethylene glycol but 
it's much less toxic to animals and etc.  On the same line...if you live 
in a non-freezing state, consider using Red Line Water Wetter..it's an 
outright superior product far as I have experienced..costs about as much 
as one gallon of antifreeze and works for an entire cooling system.  You 
can run straight water with the stuff.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: Jeff Stanish <stanishj@svpal.org>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 02:08:40 -0300
Subject: Re: Restoration Stuff

Yeah its gray zinc phosphate!!  Steve Gregori fron Sanger CA can do 
these.  He 
advertises in JWO, Hemmings etc.  It's not pretty stuff but it is original.

If you don't want to replate these,especially for a driver.  I'd just 
fake it out with some paint.  Probably A flattened dark gray enamel.  
Most people would never know the diference.


On Mon, 13 May 1996 
BobH592058@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 96-05-12 20:13:34 EDT, you write:
> 
> >Does anyone know what finish the (gowdawfully poor designed) hood hinges 
> >on a '68 should be? The underhood where they attach is black, so I 
> >suppose the hinges could be too, or body color (doubtful), cast 
> >gray/natural, cad-plated, I dunno. I can't tell with mine what they used to 
> >be. Ideas? 
> 
> I's like to know what the stuff used on hood hinges is too.  It doesn't look
> or feel like paint but some kind of antirust coating.  NOS or good original
> hood hinges on mid '60's to early '70's appear dark grey, almost black and
> somewhat rough, like a finger nail board the ladies use on the finest side.
> 
> Bob Handren
> '67 W-30 Modified
> '70 SX Convertible
> Oviedo, FL
> 
> 

------------------------------

From: jrjet@whidbey.net (Dot & Tim McChesney)
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 03:43:53 -0300
Subject: Re: electrical problems 

Hi lowell,
        Sounds like voltage regulator, dont know about the clickng undeer
the dash.  Might also check the grounds in the system.

------------------------------

From: Bneuw30@aol.com
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 08:41:47 -0300
Subject: Re: 70 ? Cutlass available 

I am looking for a 70 Cutlass Hardtop.  Is this a 2dr sedan?

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 09:09:15 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[4]: Out for a Drive Today 

At 07:05 PM 5/13/96 -0300, you wrote:
>     No offense taken <g>.  But that's why I *CHOSE* this car.  4-door 
>     sedans are always cheaper so it made a great starting point for 
>     myself.  Perhaps one day I'll restify a convertable, but budgetary 
>     restrictions (for now) restrict me to the 4-door variety.
>     
>     Besides, how many 4-door '51 Olds 98s does one see on the road as a 
>     daily driver?.......<G>.........

I'd say very few.

Yours sounds like a nice car.



************************************************
Daniel A. Gulino
Associate Professor and Graduate Chairman
Department of Chemical Engineering
Ohio University
Athens, Ohio  45701-2979
(614) 593-1495
(614) 593-0873 (fax)
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://www.ent.ohiou.edu/che/faculty/gulino.html
************************************************

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 09:14:48 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: misc. stuffs 

At 01:52 AM 5/14/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Anyone know the specifics of propylene glycol?  From what I hear it's a 
>greener antifreeze and it costs a few bucks more than ethylene glycol but 
>it's much less toxic to animals and etc.  

I've read a few things about it, and none of them good.  In fact, I think
that some manufacturers (GM?) will void the warranty if you use it in
place of ethylene glycol.  I've also read that it isn't really all that
much less toxic than ethylene glycol.

In short, I'm staying away from it.  :)


************************************************
Daniel A. Gulino
Associate Professor and Graduate Chairman
Department of Chemical Engineering
Ohio University
Athens, Ohio  45701-2979
(614) 593-1495
(614) 593-0873 (fax)
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://www.ent.ohiou.edu/che/faculty/gulino.html
************************************************

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 09:12:08 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Out for a Drive Today 

At 05:00 PM 5/13/96 -0300, you wrote:

>Daniel:
>
>I understand that they get their information from auctions.  They are 
>supposed to use only sold cars to establish the value but we all have 
>heard of shills there.  The person selling his car wants $5,000 and the 
>bidding stops at $2500.  His shill bids on to $5000, but not enough to 
>buy it and the car goes home with everyone thinking that its worth more 
>than $2500.  At the next auction the seller says he got nearly $5,000 at 
>auction "X" and the bidders fall into the idea that it might really be 
>worth the $5,000.  Someone buys it.  I can see why values are all 
>distorted, but the auctions are the easy way to get some idea, even if 
>an inflated one. 
>
>Bill Culp
>
>

Yeah.  In fact, I would think that auctions are the WORST place to try
to determine a fair value for something.  If you have ONE bidder, the
bidding will stop immediately.  If you have two or more, it would
depend on how badly each one wanted the car.

I've attended several auctions over the last few years (never bought
anything), and it always seemed that very few cars are actually sold
on the block.  Many sell in the yard outside later in the day.


************************************************
Daniel A. Gulino
Associate Professor and Graduate Chairman
Department of Chemical Engineering
Ohio University
Athens, Ohio  45701-2979
(614) 593-1495
(614) 593-0873 (fax)
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://www.ent.ohiou.edu/che/faculty/gulino.html
************************************************

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 09:47:17 -0300
Subject: Up and Down

Just thought I'd let you know that the powers that be at CCN did some 
software maintenance yesterday that brought their mail system to its 
knees until this morning. It seems to be back now as I've received a 
bunch of mail from yesterday. Last night it wouldn't even deliver mail 
internally to other CCN users, or even a message I sent to myself! Sorry 
for the inconvenience.

At the same time, they changed something else that logged you off 
automatically after about 5 minutes... so it's probably a good thing 
there was no mail to read anyhow! That's fixed too (I hope).

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: clark@sh28.dseg.ti.com (Pat Clark 952-3776)
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 10:28:35 -0300
Subject: Re: Oil Pump Drive Rods

> >         When you pull a distributor out of an engine, is the hex shaped drive
> > rod designed to stay in the oil pump or come out with the distributor?
> > 
> 
> Pat it's supposed stay in the engine. Did it come out?
> 
> 
> Regards
> Fernando Proietto
> 
> 

Yeah, it came out whith the distributor when I dissassembled the block to 
rebuild the engine. Just left it in the distributor (Heck, thought it was 
supposed to be that way!). When I pulled HEIs at the wrecking yard I noticed 
that the rod stayed in the block. When I went to install the HEI in my engine
I put a small piece of paper (About the size of half your pinkie nail) between
the rod and HEI to wedge it in place so I could install it without the rod
falling into the block. There are no retainers in the block. ( I know the paper
was Micky-Mouse, but it sounded, and worked good at the time). Have to pull
the HEI up to adjust the timing so I hope the rod stays in the block this time.


          ___              ___        _________
         /   |            /   |      /         \
        /    |           /    |     |   ___    |
       /     |          /     |     |__|   |   |
      /      |         /      |           /   /   
     /       |        /       |          /   /   
    /   /|   |       /   /|   |         /   /
   /   /_|   |__    /   /_|   |__      /   /
  |             |  |             |    /   /
  |______     __|  |______     __|   /   /_____
         |   |            |   |     |          |      Pat Clark
         |___|            |___|     |__________|       69 442
						      400/400

   "Just your average 300+hp garage hogging, gas sucking, money pit"

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 09:49:39 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[4]: Out for a Drive Today 

>     Besides, how many 4-door '51 Olds 98s does one see on the road as a 
>     daily driver?.......<G>.........

Plus it's easier to get in and out of a 4-door: the driver's door swings
open a lot easier, and opens to a greater angle within the same confined
space than a longer, coupe door can open. And passengers getting into the
back seat don't have to go through all the contortions of climbing over a
folded front seat, which is a great way to get all kinds of extra scuff
marks on the front seatback and door pillars. And yes, I'd want to take
passengers all the time if I'm going to enjoy _my_ nice old car, so when
I'm looking for a fine old ride, I may go for a 4-door as my first choice.

And they're cheaper, too.  :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 09:52:10 -0300
Subject: Re: HEI 

>> My guess is that the tach connector is used to deliver the tach signal
>> to the ECM, without which you get a Check Engine light on the dash and
>> a Code 12 in diagnostics, 
>
>Don't have check engine light.... Code Y, 307 Cdn built.

No kidding. No Check Engine light? No ECM? No ALDL socket under the edge
of the dash?

>Between the owners manual, the cdn supplement and Haynes, now I'm all mixed
up...

I'm stumped too.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 10:10:23 -0300
Subject: Re: battery drain/windows 

>    You might also try removing the negative terminal from the battery and
>then with a volt/multimeter check for voltage from a good ground point on
>the body to the negetive post on the battery  (remember to do this with the
>neg. cable removed)  If you read even the slightest amount of voltage you've
>confirmed your short/leak.  Then one by one you can begin unplugging
>components until you read 0 volts.  That will find the source for you.

True. Just keep in mind that if you have an electromechanical clock (the
old factory type) in the dash that's still running, its winder contacts will
close about 40 seconds after you disconnect the battery, so anytime after
that you'll get an indicated "short" in the clock/lighter/courtesy light 
circuit. 

Actually an old "dead" clock may have partially-closed winder contacts
that could be responsible for the drain, too. I would start by pulling the
fuse for the always-hot circuit(s) and see if that is enough to stop the
slow drain.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 10:11:52 -0300
Subject: Re: Module Madness 

>I just blew the THIRD electronic module in a year.
[...]
>I suspect my voltage regulator is tired so I picked up one of those while 
>I was at my local parts store. Anybody got a clue as to what is causing 
>this? This has happened before and after the engine rebuild. I also 
>understand that the module is heat sensitive, it is electronic after 
>all... What gives here?

Would this be a combination of an old mechanical voltage regulator with
a late-model HEI module conversion? Maybe the voltage fluctuations are
too much for the module to take?

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: peter_teubel@mail.hanks.com
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 12:32:41 -0300
Subject: Re[6]: Out for a Drive Today 

     I'd like to think so....at least its different.


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Re[4]: Out for a Drive Today
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at SMTP
Date:    5/14/96 8:21 AM


At 07:05 PM 5/13/96 -0300, you wrote:
>     No offense taken <g>.  But that's why I *CHOSE* this car.  4-door 
>     sedans are always cheaper so it made a great starting point for 
>     myself.  Perhaps one day I'll restify a convertable, but budgetary 
>     restrictions (for now) restrict me to the 4-door variety.
>     
>     Besides, how many 4-door '51 Olds 98s does one see on the road as a 
>     daily driver?.......<G>.........
     
I'd say very few.
     
Yours sounds like a nice car.
     
     
     
************************************************ 
Daniel A. Gulino
Associate Professor and Graduate Chairman 
Department of Chemical Engineering
Ohio University
Athens, Ohio  45701-2979
(614) 593-1495
(614) 593-0873 (fax)
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://www.ent.ohiou.edu/che/faculty/gulino.html 
************************************************
     
     

------------------------------

From: JK McCall <jkmccall@clic.net>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 12:15:06 -0300
Subject: Re: HEI

Andrew C. Green wrote:
> 

> >Don't have check engine light.... Code Y, 307 Cdn built.
> 
> No kidding. No Check Engine light? No ECM? No ALDL socket under the edge
> of the dash?
> No, its got the aldl socket under the dash but no check engine light 
connected to it...  Must have to use a shop tester to read the codes...

Canadian supplement says "if a CHECK ENGINE light on the instrument 
panel comes on, your car DOES have the CCC system".  OK I guess I don't 
but it looks like some of the gear is there for it...

> I'm stumped too.

JK McCall

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 05:23:35 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: 307 V8 

     Sorry, I'm up in WA State, can't help you with a mechanic.  That's 
     funny because the Edelbrock catalog says it will only fit the 307 with 
     5A heads.  I thought that was strange that it wouldn't fit, and who am 
     I to argue since you obviously got it to fit!
     
     Any installation problems with that Edelbrock intake?  The catalog 
     says the cruise linkage won't clear.  If you have cruise, any problems 
     with that?  Are the vacuum ports and thermal vacuum switches in 
     roughly the same place?
     
     Thanks in advance!
     
     Tom L.

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: RE: 307 V8
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    5/14/96 4:24 AM
     
Tom My 307 on my older 1988 cutlass has roller cams but i put a = 
edlebrock preformer intake on it...currently it has 30,000 miles on that = 
install and no damage to the eng. It gained some horseies but more = 
noticeable was the gas milage....went from 26 to 28 on the hwy....know = 
of anybody in the houston area that does quality work on the 307??=20

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 21:36:30 -0300
Subject: Re: Oil Pump Drive Rods

Pat Clark 952-3776 wrote:
> Yeah, it came out whith the distributor when I dissassembled the block to
> rebuild the engine. Just left it in the distributor (Heck, thought it was
> supposed to be that way!). When I pulled HEIs at the wrecking yard I noticed
> that the rod stayed in the block. When I went to install the HEI in my engine
> I put a small piece of paper (About the size of half your pinkie nail) between
> the rod and HEI to wedge it in place so I could install it without the rod
> falling into the block. There are no retainers in the block. ( I know the paper
> was Micky-Mouse, but it sounded, and worked good at the time). Have to pull
> the HEI up to adjust the timing so I hope the rod stays in the block this time.


O.K. Do this. Take the rod off the HEI and try and install it into the block. You will 
need larger than statndard needle nose pliers to do this. An idea I just got it to use 
maybe an extension rod with a strong magnet on the end. Use it to just drop it into the 
oil pump. If your worried it will drop into the pan then use the pliers or better yet make 
a tool that will hold the rod while you lower it and install it. 

That paper thing you did. Take it out. No need to help the oil pump get clogged with the 
shreded paper. Make sure everything is clean that you put into the block. If the rod is 
too lose in the dist. then your rod maybe too worn. Don't install it. Get another one. 
There's a chance that it may turn completely in the dist. and thro your timing way off, 
not to mention put small steel filing into you engine.

Now I need to know, when you pulled the original dist out, did you get a fight? Did you 
have to yank at it for a while before it let lose? If so, you probably ripped the rod out 
and the little retainer slipped off. This happened to me. In any case no real harm done, 
it should be caught by the oil pump filter screen. The real problem now is to re-install 
the rod first. Make sure it seats right into the pump. Then install the HEI. The trick is 
to try and install the HEI with the rotor facing the No.1 piston. As close as possible. 
This will give more room when you install the wires and allow for more room when adjusting 
the timing. Because you will have to rotate the dist. counter clock wise inorder to 
advance it at idle. If the rotor is, let's say pointing towards piston No. 3 or 5 when you 
rotate the dist to advance the timing the wires will not go that far and/or the connection 
on the cap (the tach and bat hookup) will hit the fire wall or other accessories. 

Let us know..

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 15:13:48 -0300
Subject: Re: Module Madness

Andrew C. Green wrote:
>  
> Would this be a combination of an old mechanical voltage regulator with
> a late-model HEI module conversion? Maybe the voltage fluctuations are
> too much for the module to take?

Sounds reasonable to me.

I've been trying to think of possible causes of this.
Reasoning so far:

1) It not the modules.  It's doubtful that all three that fried (in a 
year) were defective; therefore, the cause must be external.

2) All electronic circuits require a stable power source for stable 
operation.  The more unstable the power, the more unstable the operation 
until the point were it quits working and/or cooks.

3) I would think that the modules have internal power regulation and 
filtering; however, there are limits to what it can do.

4) a mechanical switching regulator would be the worst possible type of 
power regulator to use in theis application.  Wide voltage fluctuations, 
voltage spikes, extremely slow operation (by electronic standards).

SO ... I agree with you Andy.  I'd be very suspicious of the voltage 
regulation.  It if isn't electronic, I'd change out the alt/reg to a 
modern one better suited to modern electronics.  

AND! The filtering the module may do is dependent upon good connections. 
I'd also check ... guess what ... GROUNDS!  A bad (noisy) ground could 
give similar results.  A spike is a spike is a spike.


The 66 Toro and Mike

- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 12:43:13 -0300
Subject: RE: 307 V8 

At 11.58 05,14,96 -0300, you wrote:
>Tom My 307 on my older 1988 cutlass has roller cams but i put a edlebrock
preformer intake on it...currently it has 30,000 miles on that install and
no damage to the eng. It gained some horseies but more noticeable was the
gas milage....went from 26 to 28 on the hwy....know of anybody in the
houston area that does quality work on the 307?? 
>

what is the induction? carb or tbi or tpi?
               zack
>----------
>From: 	Tom Lentz[SMTP:tlentz@teknon.com]
>Sent: 	Monday, May 13, 1996 5:25 PM
>To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>Subject: 	Re: 307 V8
>
>
>     Eh?  Are you trying to say you have TBI on your truck, which is 
>     powered by an Olds 307!?  Do tell us more!
>     
>     Anyways, the 350 intake will fit on 307's up through '85.  From '85 
>     on, they're roller cams and use different (7A) heads.  I think both 
>     were available in '85, so you'll have to check the heads if it's an 
>     '85.  If the heads are 5A's, go for it.  You may need to do a bit of 
>     port matching since the 307 heads will probably have smaller intakes 
>     than the 350 heads the manifold came from.
>     
>     Tom L.
>
>______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
>Subject: 307 V8
>Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
>Date:    5/12/96 7:54 PM
>
>
>ok...will a 350 intake fit on a letr model 307?  i need to know this as to 
>keep the SMOG legality on my truck...and would the heads also fit...i might 
>have to use the heads as some were special to TBI...
>                    zack
>      ___
>     /. .\
>    _\_*_/_                     -<Buddha>-
>   / /   \ \                   Buddha@itw.com 
>   \_\___/_/            HTTP://www2.itw.com/~buddha/
>  /___\_/___\ "That which does not kill us makes us stronger"
> *************
>     
>     
>
>
>
>Attachment Converted: C:\ITW\NETSHIT\RE307V8
>
      ___
     /. .\
    _\_*_/_                     -<Buddha>-
   / /   \ \                   Buddha@itw.com
   \_\___/_/            HTTP://www2.itw.com/~buddha/
  /___\_/___\ "That which does not kill us makes us stronger"
 *************

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 12:51:48 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[4]: Out for a Drive Today 

At 09.49 05,14,96 -0300, you wrote:
>>     Besides, how many 4-door '51 Olds 98s does one see on the road as a 
>>     daily driver?.......<G>.........
>
>Plus it's easier to get in and out of a 4-door: the driver's door swings
>open a lot easier, and opens to a greater angle within the same confined
>space than a longer, coupe door can open. And passengers getting into the
>back seat don't have to go through all the contortions of climbing over a
>folded front seat, which is a great way to get all kinds of extra scuff
>marks on the front seatback and door pillars. And yes, I'd want to take
>passengers all the time if I'm going to enjoy _my_ nice old car, so when
>I'm looking for a fine old ride, I may go for a 4-door as my first choice.
>

lower it, put on some nice boyds wheels, put a sunroof on it...455 with open
headers...heheheh that would be fun...

and i am thinking about getting an Olds wagon preferably from the late 60's
early 70's...anyone know of any for sale?

                    zack
>And they're cheaper, too.  :-)
>
>Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
>Datalogics, Inc.
>441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
>Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473
>
>
>
      ___
     /. .\
    _\_*_/_                     -<Buddha>-
   / /   \ \                   Buddha@itw.com
   \_\___/_/            HTTP://www2.itw.com/~buddha/
  /___\_/___\ "That which does not kill us makes us stronger"
 *************

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 05:53:21 -0300
Subject: Re: 442's vs. Buick GN 

     15.8 sounds just about right for that car.  Not very impressive, I 
     know.  I wonder why Olds didn't try putting fuel injection on their 
     late-model V8's.  If I had fuel injection I'd probably half think 
     about adding a turbo or centrifugal-type supercharger.
     
     Hmm... which do you suppose would be easier:  Adding fuel injection 
     and a turbo, or just ditching the engine and adapting an Aurora V8 to 
     a G-body Cutlass?  I promise I'll try both and let you know the 
     results as soon as I win the lottery, or Ed McMahon stops by with my 
     10 mil.

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: 442's vs. Buick GN
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    5/14/96 4:24 AM


Has Olds ever produced a V6 with the power potential of the 3.8 Buick turbo? 
I brought this up because I went to the dragstrip the other day with the 
Z/28 for test-n-tune and went up against a 1987 442 and had no problem 
beating him in the quarter and I had hook up trouble off the start. His best 
time of the day was a 15.8. Mine was only 14.6 : ( 
     
Jason Labay
1988 Z/28
1975 Hurst/Olds
     
     

------------------------------

From: Lucas Frick <frick@macrochip.com>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 13:02:59 -0300
Subject: Re: Oil pump Drive Rods

What is the procedure for making sure that the dist drive gear is =
matched to the correct position on the cam?  I had a friend line it up, =
after about 5 incorrect tries.  I had a one in 26 chance of getting it.  =
Talk about some backfires.  I remember something about pointing the =
rotor at No.1 and pulling the spark plug on No.1 to make sure the piston =
is at the top, but thats about it.

I had the same situation with the oil pump drive rod coming out when I =
changed the magnetic pick up on the dist.  I used the dist to put the =
rod back into the oil pump then taped the rod with a hammer and =
extension.  No problems.

Luke

------------------------------

From: peter_teubel@mail.hanks.com
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 14:45:58 -0300
Subject: Re[6]: Out for a Drive Today 

     ABSOLUTLY!  Why not have some practicality with our old(s) toys?
     
     -Pete
     '51 98


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Re[4]: Out for a Drive Today
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at SMTP
Date:    5/14/96 10:06 AM


>     Besides, how many 4-door '51 Olds 98s does one see on the road as a 
>     daily driver?.......<G>.........
     
Plus it's easier to get in and out of a 4-door: the driver's door swings 
open a lot easier, and opens to a greater angle within the same confined 
space than a longer, coupe door can open. And passengers getting into the 
back seat don't have to go through all the contortions of climbing over a 
folded front seat, which is a great way to get all kinds of extra scuff 
marks on the front seatback and door pillars. And yes, I'd want to take 
passengers all the time if I'm going to enjoy _my_ nice old car, so when 
I'm looking for a fine old ride, I may go for a 4-door as my first choice.
     
And they're cheaper, too.  :-)
     
Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431 
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com 
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473
     
     

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 14:37:27 -0300
Subject: Re: Module Madness 

In a message dated 96-05-14 11:44:33 EDT, you write:

> I'd be very suspicious of the voltage 
>regulation.  It if isn't electronic, I'd change out the alt/reg to a 
>modern one better suited to modern electronics.  
>
>

All the replacement external voltage regulators I've seen of late are solid
state.  At ~$10 it should be replaced if the old coil/relay type is still in
there and you have converted to HEI.

Bob Handren
'67 W-30 Modified
'70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 14:37:25 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: misc. stuffs 

In a message dated 96-05-14 07:02:49 EDT, you write:

>Anyone know the specifics of propylene glycol? 

I have heard that there are problems with the "green" anti-freeze but don't
remember the specifics.  Corrosion reisistance?

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 15:44:26 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Comfortron 

Dang, you can't even trust some "professionals" with a wire brush!  It might be 
a good idea to avoid this mechanic/dealer.  One of the first things taught about
Auto A/C diagnosis is the visual and hand inspection.  These tests should have 
determined the cause of the heavy frost.  

Did they ever hook up an A/C guage set?  The low and high pressures and 
fluxuations would also indicate the cause of the problem.

This is also easy for me to say, but sheesh!!

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    "Oldsmobile - powerful roadsters with big V8s"
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu

- -------------
< A/C diagnosis (?) by experienced (?) mechanic (?) clipped >

>Under the hood, A/C lines were covered with a HEAVY frost, like the
>inside of an old freezer.  
>
> Mechanic says he's on a real witch hunt and has no idea what to do.  This
>man's been doing A/C work for over 20 years and he can't fix it.

< More clipped >

------------------------------

From: peter_teubel@mail.hanks.com
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 16:07:51 -0300
Subject: Re[6]: Out for a Drive Today 

     Don't laugh!  I saw a feature on Rod & Custom on my '51 98 *2-door, 
     though).  The guy did just that...lowered it 1 1/2", mild shave, 
     custom wheels, louvered hood, and a 455 (mellow headers....).  Looked 
     really nice.  I saved it for just that purpose....to see what can be 
     done with this beast, while not going overboard.
     
     -Pete
     '51'98


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Re[4]: Out for a Drive Today
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at SMTP
Date:    5/14/96 12:02 PM


At 09.49 05,14,96 -0300, you wrote:
>>     Besides, how many 4-door '51 Olds 98s does one see on the road as a 
>>     daily driver?.......<G>.........
>
>Plus it's easier to get in and out of a 4-door: the driver's door swings 
>open a lot easier, and opens to a greater angle within the same confined 
>space than a longer, coupe door can open. And passengers getting into the 
>back seat don't have to go through all the contortions of climbing over a 
>folded front seat, which is a great way to get all kinds of extra scuff 
>marks on the front seatback and door pillars. And yes, I'd want to take 
>passengers all the time if I'm going to enjoy _my_ nice old car, so when 
>I'm looking for a fine old ride, I may go for a 4-door as my first choice. 
>
     
lower it, put on some nice boyds wheels, put a sunroof on it...455 with open 
headers...heheheh that would be fun...
     
and i am thinking about getting an Olds wagon preferably from the late 60's 
early 70's...anyone know of any for sale?
     
                    zack
>And they're cheaper, too.  :-)
>
>Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431 
>Datalogics, Inc.
>441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com 
>Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473
>
>
>
      ___
     /. .\
    _\_*_/_                     -<Buddha>-
   / /   \ \                   Buddha@itw.com 
   \_\___/_/            HTTP://www2.itw.com/~buddha/
  /___\_/___\ "That which does not kill us makes us stronger"
 *************
     
     

------------------------------

From: "piggy" <eolson@odin.vr.cc.mn.us>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 15:45:24 -0300
Subject: [none]

subscribe oldsmobile

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 16:38:00 -0300
Subject: San Diego ramblings 

Well, got back from San Diego Sunday night.  Great weather, city, people.  
Saw a nice selection of Olds on the roads!  Want to go back!  I'll post 
some Olds for sale from the S.D. Union.

Had a good time at the conference.  Spent one day parts pulling.  There's a 
large number (15-20) yards located in two locations only 5 miles apart!  
Some have older stuff.  Was only able to visit 4.  Each had one or two '69 
or '70 Deltas.  Ran out of cash unfortunately.

Had the fortunate opportunity to talk with Dave at J&C Auto.  He gave me a 
S.D. parts yard directory (!) put together by the parts yard association!  
Now that's a great idea!

Chris, I think the "one low compression piston" *hevy mechanic worked on a 
'72 Delta I found - 1 'J' head and 1 'E' head.  With the restrictive ports 
on the 'J', I wonder how that thing ran.

Found a '71 Toro with 'C' heads - looked original.  'C' heads in '71?

There are a few more older cars out there than around the salt states.  A 
few unrusted Pinto's, '60's *hevy station wagaons.  Not as many as the 
California Air Resources Board would like you to beleive - at least in S.D. 
- - maybe 10-15%.  Saw a '65-'68 Delta 88 I wanted to find the owner of.  
Black, 4dr, nice paint-looked original, nice chrome, with the horizontal 4" 
by 10" tail lights in the bumper.  Anyone know what year that is?

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    "Oldsmobile - powerful roadsters with big V8s"
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 17:08:41 -0300
Subject: Re: Confused re. 5-liter V-8s

At 03:35 PM 5/13/96 -0300, you wrote:
 Could this '85 Cutlass 2-door indeed have a Ch*vy 305? Or 
>does the owner not know what he's talking about? 
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I'd say that this is probably the case.
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

 "I was put on this earth to accomplish a certain number of things;
    right now I'm so far behind, I'll never die"  --Calvin

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 17:07:48 -0300
Subject: Re: 70 ? Cutlass available

At 12:50 AM 5/14/96 -0300, you wrote:
>There is here in Lansing, a Cutlass 2-door with a pretty good body, in primer,
>for sale, sorta. I left a flier on it, guy called up, he has another car to fix
>up, wants oh, 6-700 for this one. Has a '70 rear bumper, I thought it was a 72
>Supreme front end- squares in the grille- not sure. 

If you can't tell from the grill, look at the front signal lamps in the
bumper. Round lamps=1969 or 1970, rectangular lamps=1971 or 1972.  Of
course, you know, if you really want to know the year, check the VIN.  :)
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

 "I was put on this earth to accomplish a certain number of things;
    right now I'm so far behind, I'll never die"  --Calvin

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 17:07:50 -0300
Subject: Re: Oil Pump Drive Rods

At 09:36 PM 5/13/96 -0300, you wrote:
 The trick is 
>to try and install the HEI with the rotor facing the No.1 piston. As close
as possible. 

Assuming, of course, that #1 is at TDC.
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

 "I was put on this earth to accomplish a certain number of things;
    right now I'm so far behind, I'll never die"  --Calvin

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 17:26:45 -0300
Subject: Re: 70 ? Cutlass available

At 05:07 PM 5/11/96 -0300, you wrote:
>At 12:50 AM 5/14/96 -0300, you wrote:
>>There is here in Lansing, a Cutlass 2-door with a pretty good body, in primer,
>>for sale, sorta. I left a flier on it, guy called up, he has another car
to fix
>>up, wants oh, 6-700 for this one. Has a '70 rear bumper, I thought it was a 72
>>Supreme front end- squares in the grille- not sure. 
>
>If you can't tell from the grill, look at the front signal lamps in the
>bumper. Round lamps=1969 or 1970, rectangular lamps=1971 or 1972.  Of
>course, you know, if you really want to know the year, check the VIN.  :)


Oops, got that backwards -- rectangular=1969 or 1970, round=1971 or 1972.
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

 "I was put on this earth to accomplish a certain number of things;
    right now I'm so far behind, I'll never die"  --Calvin

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 16:40:40 -0300
Subject: Re: Confused re. 5-liter V-8s

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
> 
> I'm going to look at the '85 Cutlass I mentioned the other day, probably
> tonight. My brother said over the phone that the owner told him it had a
> "305" V-8.
> 
> Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, CanadaIt is possible that it has a 305 Chevy. I see quite a few from those years with them at 
our towing yard.
- -- 
Jason P. Labay (Akron, Ohio)				  z28cfi@gwis.com
Grad Student in Sport Administration at Kent State U.     f-list since: 7/95
1988 Camaro Z/28 Cross-Fire Injection 305
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25

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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #175
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