
oldsmobile-digest          Saturday, 18 May 1996       Volume 01 : Number 178


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: isagil <isagil@CAM.ORG>
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 12:15:18 -0300
Subject: Volvo injection

Hi Michael,

	Did you get your 144 running properly? I fowarded all the messages I 
got on your particular fuel injection problem. Feel free to drop a line. By 
the 23rd of this month, I'm out of the Net. Let me know by then.

Later


Gilles

------------------------------

From: "Bruce D. Brumm" <bdbrumm@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 13:44:36 -0300
Subject: "n-bolt" rear ends...

A question because I don't know (and want to):

  What does the tern "n-bolt" as pertaining to the rear end of the car
referr to?  Is it the bolt pattern on the differential housing or is it
the number of nuts/bolts on the rear axel wheel studs?  I assume it is
the former, but it has never been clear to me so...

I also (assume?) that this is independent of the rear end ratio.
You know the saying -- the only stupid question is the one not asked...
(Yeah, that really makes me feel better! :) )

- -- 

Bruce D. Brumm (bdbrumm@ix.netcom.com)
Network & Systems Administrator
LDM Technologies, Inc.
Troy, MI

'84 Cutlass Supreme 307-Y
'86 Cutlass Salon 307-Y

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 09:55:09 -0300
Subject: Re: Web Page 

>     Got a message yesterday about my page; some guy from Peterson
>Publishing.  Seems they like the page, etc, but they want me to take my
>articles OUT.

Er, you mean they want you to take _their_ articles out. Slight difference
there.  ;-)

>     I didn't get to talk with the guy, he called the college (that carries
>my page) and the message was forwarded to me from the college. 

...and probably edited a bit, too. I suggest you actually get ol' Stephan
on the phone yourself and see if they'd be happy if you added a "Reprinted
with Permission" blurb, and offered to drop stuff lifted from rival magazines
(if any). This might fulfill their requirements for copyright protection,
although I'm no lawyer. My mother is, so if this gets involved I could see 
what she thinks about it...

>     Anyway, about the page.  I'll leave it up for a couple of days, then
>make it casually disappear.  Maybe after a week or so, I'll put it back out,
>but in a hidden location with NO links to it, and post that to the list
>here.  If no one else makes links to it, chances are the ~wrong~ viewers
>won't find it, and we can still benefit.

Ehhh... maybe. But you'd be surprised what web searchers can find. Of
course, the fact that the offending articles are in the form of graphic
images might be some protection, assuming that you don't use any key words
in the text description or hotlinks.

- -- Andy
   Co-Founder, the Steering Lock Conspirators' Association

   (Check out our web-page answer to Wilson Sherman's INTERNATIONAL SAFETY
   ALERT Usenet spams at http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/u/tjnye/slca.html)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Lucas Frick <frick@macrochip.com>
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 11:30:40 -0300
Subject: Re: n-bolt rear end

The n stands for either 10 or 12 bolts on the rear differential cover.  =
Buick, Olds, and Pontiac rear ends are interchangable if they are the =
same frame size ( A - body GTO rear will fit Cutlass).  I recently found =
a guy willing to part out his Judge - don't really know why.  I paid =
$150 for the 10 bolt posi rear end.  The posi carrier is definitely =
better than the open carrier because it spins both wheels.  A quick =
check - jack both rear wheels off the ground and spin one of the wheels. =
 The other wheel should turn in the same direction, not opposite. =20

Many different gear ratios could be ordered.  I have had 4.11, 4.10, and =
currently 3.73.  With higher numerically gears you get a quicker start =
but sacrifice top end speed.  With the 4.11 gears and 4-speed my first =
gear was pretty worthless.  The bald tires don't help either.

Also if you can find the boxed rear lower control arms and rear sway =
bar, these help a lot.  I am also using lakewood No-Hop bars with great =
success.  Better than ladder bars and you cant see them.  It gets a =
pretty damn good launch now.

Luke 71 442 The Demolition Man saw my car and decided he needed one=20

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 11:47:23 -0300
Subject: RE: Re[2]: 442? 

>          And there really were 1972 H/O Vista Cruisers built for use 
>          at the Indy 500 that year, at least one of which is known to 
>          exist in rough form.  Keep in mind that these were 
>          apparently relatively stock Vista Cruisers with just the 
>          W-25 hood and H/O graphics applied.

Maybe, but there was only one Cutlass wagon with the w45/w46 performance 
package.  It had either the 3.08 or 3.23 (limited slip) rear end.  But the 
w25 hood could have been special ordered with the L34 engine (350 - 4bbl) 
or the L75 (455 - 4bbl).  The hood cost $154, with the engines costing $46.00 
and $183.00.  But don't forget to add the Turbo 400 tranny. 
Anybody know where this Cutlass Wagon is?

Roger Borlase
'72 Cutlass Wagon
http://www.cjnetworks/olds/noframsreg/borlase.html

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 12:59:52 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Web Page 

Charley,

Peterson Publishing might let their articles on your page slide if you setup 
some arrangement where nothing less than 2 or 3 years old is used.  Sort of a 
newstand delay.  But then there is their backissue business, like you mentioned.

If they provided you with and it was included on your page, a "used with 
permission of Peterson Publishing" legalise statement, that would probably get 
around the "you've never enforced it before..." argument, and prevent everyone 
from putting P.P. articles up on a page.

Just my 2 cents.  It would be nice to keep the CC and HR articles on your page.

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 12:27:18 -0300
Subject: Re: "n-bolt" rear ends... 

In a message dated 96-05-17 09:49:40 EDT, you write:

>  What does the tern "n-bolt" as pertaining to the rear end of the car
>referr to?  Is it the bolt pattern on the differential housing or is it
>the number of nuts/bolts on the rear axel wheel studs?  I assume it is
>the former, but it has never been clear to me so...

It refers to the number of bolts retaining the ring gear to the carrier.
Fortunately (or unfortunately), this number usually corresponds to the number
of bolts holding the back cover of the differential on, so you can usually
tell whether you have a "10-bolt" or "12-bolt" rear from the number of bolts
on the outside of the casing.

A problem arises, however, when people think the bolts on the cover
determines the type of rear that they have, because *sometimes* GM put a
10-bolt carrier inside a differential housing whose cover had 12-bolts.

There are also Chevy, Pontiac and Olds versions of these rear axles. What
really counts for strength of an axle, however, is the diameter of the ring
gear.

>I also (assume?) that this is independent of the rear end ratio.
>You know the saying -- the only stupid question is the one not asked...
>(Yeah, that really makes me feel better! :) )

Yes, you can fit different ratios to the different axles.

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 13:35:44 -0300
Subject: Ol-Camino

> From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>

> Theres a guy that comes to my gas station a lot that has a 77 cutlass
> with a bed built into where the trunk used to be, a kind of
> Olds-Camino...but it is certainly not like the one you saw.

Yeah, I had a 67 Cutlass 4-door that I did that to. I left the fenders and rear
doors, cut the C pillar and roof to the B pillars. Welded rear doors shut, made
a cab back enclosure and bed out of 3/4 plywood, and painted it over. It was a
great vehicle until it totalled a Datsun one day... And I only bought the car
for the front end, which was nearly perfect :(
  Had power bucket seat from a 64 Cutlass, power windows, was a fun ride, and
very useful as a truck...
  But, the one I saw in Napa was or appeared to be totally factory built.
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 13:55:55 -0300
Subject: Penny Casteele - All Is Forgiven!

Some of you might recall me grumbling here a while back over the lack of 
communication from Penny Casteele of OCA re. the article I submitted 
months ago re. the list, the web page, etc. for JWO.

Well, last night she called me. Was very upbeat over the article, 
apologized for not getting to it sooner, said it is going to be in the 
July issue of JWO. Only problem, the diskette I mailed her couldn't be 
read so I'll send her a new one.

I spoke with her some about OCA's lack of presence on the web and for 
that matter the lame presence of Olds itself as a company. As far as OCA 
is concerned, she feels that it will be up to her to take the lead on any 
net identity and she wants to get up to speed herself first so it can be 
done right. She was surprised to learn that Bryceman's page already had 
the OCA address and dues structure listed there. She mentioned that she 
would be interested in some sort of online membership form being made 
available once they get connected. Might be some potential there, Bryce.

It was interesting to hear her say that she was talking to John Rock 
about all of this at some point and that he seemed very supportive of the 
whole concept. Most of Olds' corporate attentions in this area right now 
are directed to support of their dealers and she thinks that Rock would 
be very favorably disposed to what's going on here if he knew about it. 
She also finds Rock very keen on the preservation aspect of Olds and 
mentioned that he was the only Olds factory person in attendance at last 
year's Lansing show, was upset by that, and she figured that this year it 
might be a different story. She finds him to be a different sort of exec, 
not the usual corporate type. Encouraging.

The possibilities are endless if you let your mind wander a bit... 
factory support for parts hunting, tech advice, a presence here on the 
list, warehouse full of NOS parts suddenly becoming available... boy, more 
opium!!! :)

Well, maybe I got a little carried away there. Nevertheless, I think I'll 
mail Rock a copy of the article at the same time I send the disk to 
Penny, along with a short note explaining all of this and asking if 
there's any interest on the part of the ocmpany in this. Can't hurt.


Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 06:46:07 -0300
Subject: Rear ends and stuff. 

     While we're on the subject of rear-ends, does anyone know where I 
     could find an 8.5" posi carrier for a G-body 10-bolt rear?  New or 
     used, working or not.  I'll buy the whole axle if I have to.  I've had 
     zero luck around here looking for one.
     
     Junkyard report:  There was a rumor going on a while back here about 
     goldmine junkyards here in Spokane.  The last few weeks I've been out 
     to most of them, with not much luck, I don't think I've seen a single 
     pre-75 Olds.  I haven't hit Spalding's, the largest one yet, but 
     historically I haven't had much luck with them.  Most yards around 
     here are specialty yards, and after you discard the truck-only, 
     import-only, ford-only, etc. yards it leaves just a few.  Rice's C&R 
     is GM only, I'd say well over half of their stock is Oldsmobile, and 
     it's not too picked over, but it's mostly post-80 stuff.  They pull 
     the engines and keep them in the warehouse, so I didn't get to peruse 
     cylinder heads, etc.  But they do let you wander around and they do 
     dicker on price.  I didn't take anything yet, but I found a few sets 
     of 80-up rally gauge packs, lots of upholstery, late model bumpers, 
     rust-free sheet metal, some 15" wheels, and a nearly complete 
     rear-ended '84 Toro.
     
     Tom L.
     

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 15:33:40 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: "n-bolt" rear ends... 

In a message dated 96-05-17 09:49:40 EDT, you write:
          
>  What does the tern "n-bolt" as pertaining to the rear end of the car 
>referr to?  ...snip...
          
It refers to the number of bolts retaining the ring gear to the carrier. 
Fortunately (or unfortunately), this number usually corresponds to the number 
of bolts holding the back cover of the differential on, so you can usually 
tell whether you have a "10-bolt" or "12-bolt" rear from the number of bolts 
on the outside of the casing......snip...

Keep in mind that the Type O 12-bolt rear ends use a smaller ring gear than 
the Type C 12-bolt, resulting in lower strength.  The good news it that the 
Type O units retain the axle shafts at their outboard ends, while the Type C 
units use the infamous c-clips at the imboard end.  This is why you see "Olds 
Axle End" kits (aka C-Clip Eliminator kits) available for the Chevy axles.

I think it was throught 1968 that you could get either a Type O or a Type C 
axle in the 442, depending on the ratio ordered.  For example, the 3.31:1 was 
a Type C, while the 3.23:1 and 3.42:1 ratios came in Type O axles.  My 
original 68 442 (built in Canada, BTW) came with the Type C axle, while my 
current 68 W-30 has a Type O with the dealer-installed 4.33s.

Note also that there are two different ring gear carriers, one for 3-series 
ratio gears and one for 4-series gears.  The difference is the dimension from 
the ring gear mounting flange to the pinion centerline, due to the larger 
diameter pinion required for the lower numerical gear ratios.  A set of 
4-series gears can be installed in the 3-series carrier with a spacer and 
longer bolts (not desireable due to reduced strength), but the reverse is not 
true.
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 15:36:44 -0300
Subject: Re: Rear ends and stuff. 

For the GM production period of ~64-72, the most common reference, at least
in the most read rodding magazines,  of 10 vs 12 bolt refers to the number of
bolts in the cover not the ring gear. This is so because when searching in
the junk yard you aren't likely to begin opening every cover you see to check
the ring gear. For one thing the yard operator might not appreciate exposing
all his rears to the elements!  So 10 vs 12 is a simplistic reference.  It
also most commonly refers to the type "C" rear although "A" bodies of the era
had three other rears as well.

GM called them "O" for Olds, "P" for Pontiac and "B" for Buick rears. You
know what the "C" stands for.  "C" rears were used in some Canadian built
Olds'.  A service manual will describe how to determine "O", "P", "C" and "B"
rears by the different casting shapes and covers.  

The "P" and "B" were all 10 bolt covers and ring gears and with the 4 pinion
cone type posi units the "P" rears were/are quite strong.  My '67 came with
the "P" rear as did all factory W-30's of that year.  Interestingly, although
the type "O" rear was introduced in 1967 with a purported large increase in
torque capacity, the highest perfromance Olds of that year used the type "P".

I have twisted axels and taken the teeth off a ring gear with the "P" unit.
 The axles never broke but were a b--ch to get out!  The cone type posi unit
is still working great with the car now running low 11's and lifting the
front wheels.  The car ran routine middle 12's with a 4-speed back in the old
days. I have over 100,000 miles on the "P" posi and many hundreds of full
throttle runs.  It may "only" be a 10 bolt but IMHO it's a pretty tough rear
and ring/pinion sets are still available.  Obviously, from the designation,
many Pontiacs also came with this rear.

The cone type posi units are allegedly not re-buildable since the cones and
case are a select fit. There are no plates and frictions that can be
replaced.  Nevertheless I have had good success with all but the worst worn
units by removing some metal where the cones bottom out in the case and then
use side bearing shims to take up the slack between the pinion and side gears
in the posi.  I packed one so tight I had to take it out and remove a shim or
two.  It acted like are _very_ tight Detroit Locker.  Really looked weird
making a turn because the twisting force of the nearly locked posi was very
visible. When it did release it was with a rather loud "clunk"!  It was
almost as bad as running a spool.  And as unsafe on wet pavement.

Olds was the only GM Division I am aware of which mixed the cover vs ring
gear bolt count. Did any GM division besides Olds (Type "O" rears)  mix this
count?  I have never seen a "Type "C" where they weren't the same but I sure
haven't seen them all either.  

Not having any significant experience with the "newer" rears I can't comment
on the post '72 10 bolt vs 12 bolt designations.  Weren't most all rears of
that era 10 bolts? How much do they have in common with the early units?
  They can't be too shabby since they are used in some pretty quick GN's.

Bob Handren
'67 W-30 Modified
'70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 15:32:11 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: "n-bolt" rear ends...

At 03:33 PM 5/17/96 -0300, you wrote:

>Keep in mind that the Type O 12-bolt rear ends use a smaller ring gear than 
>the Type C 12-bolt, resulting in lower strength.  The good news it that the 
>Type O units retain the axle shafts at their outboard ends, while the Type C 
>units use the infamous c-clips at the imboard end.  This is why you see "Olds 
>Axle End" kits (aka C-Clip Eliminator kits) available for the Chevy axles.
>
>I think it was throught 1968 that you could get either a Type O or a Type C 
>axle in the 442, depending on the ratio ordered.  For example, the 3.31:1 was 
>a Type C, while the 3.23:1 and 3.42:1 ratios came in Type O axles.  My 
>original 68 442 (built in Canada, BTW) came with the Type C axle, while my 
>current 68 W-30 has a Type O with the dealer-installed 4.33s.
>

Is there a way to tell, without opening the rear end, what size carrier is
in there? (a number or something on the rear?)  The cover on my Olds rear
has 12 bolts, and is the "O" type (no C clips).  I know it's not posi.  

Also, how often should the rear end lube be changed, if at all?  I don't
think it has *ever* been done to my car.

Thanks!
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

 "I was put on this earth to accomplish a certain number of things;
    right now I'm so far behind, I'll never die"  --Calvin

------------------------------

From: bryce_smith@442.com (Bryceman)
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 16:25:18 -0300
Subject: Hoosiers 

Performace tire recommendation for you guys/gals with full-size Oldses
(except Jetstar).
I just had a set of Street Hoosers mounted on the Apprehender and they look
outstanding! P275 60 R15 with big HOOSIER white letters. They fit well and
fill up those massive fender wells with no rubbing.
I had to use stock Shebby truck wheels 15 X 7 (4.75" backspacing... .25"
deeper to inside than stock Olds wheel) painted gloss black and they look
great with the small Olds "Dog Dish" hub caps. (found a complete set at
Hall's after combing the whole yard)  I am not *sure* but I don't think
Goodyear makes tires in this size, at least I couldn't find any. As soon as
I get moved into my new place I will post some pictures.


 EXCESSIVE IRON rules the road!
'65 442
'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender
 bryceman@442.com
 www.442.com

------------------------------

From: eda@dl.tc.faa.gov
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 16:31:27 -0300
Subject: Re: Anco Windshield Washer Pumps (electric) 

"Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com> wrote:

> DON'T take the plastic housing (held on by the torx head bolts) off.
> You don't need to and you'll just create more problems for yourself.

I'll second that motion, especially if you have delay - you can install the little tab on the wrong side of the center thing, or break the center thing - sorry, I should get my terminology together, rough night. ;-)

And be careful pushing on those vacuum lines - you might find that the plastic tee on that big reservoir ball has become brittle with age, then you're looking for a delay box and the ball at the junkyard.

> them they will disappear down into the firewall or fender (don't ask
> how I know this :-\ ).

I won't if you won't!  ;-)

Actually, Tom and I discussed this before, so just nobody else ask, okay? ;)

Ed Atlee			'77 Cutlass Supreme
eda@dl.tc.faa.gov		'84 Hurst/Olds
	R O C K E T	P O W E R E D ! !

------------------------------

From: eda@dl.tc.faa.gov
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 16:39:35 -0300
Subject: Re: 442? 

Buddha <buddha@itw.com> wrote:

> ok, i was driving down to school today when i saw a strange sight...a 4 dr.
> 442!!!  now i doubt these were even made but it was there...it looked to be
> an 87 and it even had front bucket seats, the Hurst Lightning rods, and a

The Lightning Rods would have been custom, too - they only came on the Hurst/Olds, '83 and '84.  Anyway, I once saw (drove by, couldn't stop at the time) a G-body 442, or maybe a G-body Cutlass with a really good imitation of a 442 paint scheme, not sure if the emblems were there or not, but with a roadster top!

Friend of mine gave me a picture he took in Laughlin, Nevada, of a 4-door C*rvette!!  With 4-panel t-tops, no less!! Gotta dig that up...

There's some, uh, *unique* cars out there if you look!

oops, bad Ed! bad!
Ed Atlee			'77 Cutlass Supreme
eda@dl.tc.faa.gov		'84 Hurst/Olds
	R O C K E T	P O W E R E D ! !

that's better

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 15:42:57 -0300
Subject: Re: Anco Windshield Washer Pumps (electric) 

>> DON'T take the plastic housing (held on by the torx head bolts) off.
>> You don't need to and you'll just create more problems for yourself.
>
>I'll second that motion, especially if you have delay - you can install the
>little tab on the wrong side of the center thing, or break the center thing
>- sorry, I should get my terminology together, rough night. ;-)

Well, call me wild and crazy, but--

- ---> Audience: ANDY, YOU'RE WILD AND CRAZY! <---

Thank you, thank you,... As I was about to say, I went ahead and took the
plastic housing off anyway, since with all the fiddling done on previous
occasions trying to get the damn thing to work, I had gotten pretty good 
at it. Installing the new electric motor/pump was a breeze, and it squirted
perfectly. In fact the new one is strong it blasts some fluid all the way
up to the roof when the car isn't moving.

>And be careful pushing on those vacuum lines - you might find that the 
>plastic tee on that big reservoir ball has become brittle with age, then 
>you're looking for a delay box and the ball at the junkyard.

Uh, you lost me there; the vacuum booster/reservoir on the '84 is over on 
the A/C side, and the pump doesn't use vacuum lines for anything. Of course,
it doesn't have delay on it, either, if that matters.

>> them they will disappear down into the firewall or fender (don't ask
>> how I know this :-\ ).

Yeah, I could see disaster looming there. I was using two hands to work with
the screws, just in case.  :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: bryce_smith@442.com (Bryceman)
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 17:02:46 -0300
Subject: Hoosier Followup 

This is the tire info from the Hoosier literature I have...

T rated Radial GT
Description....................P275/60R15
Part #.........................107T
Load Range.....................SL
Sidewall Letter Ht.............LW
Construction...................2+2+2
Rim Width......................8.0
Outside Diameter...............28.0"
Tire Width.....................11.0"
Tread Width....................8.9"
Revs Per Mile..................744
Approved Rim Width.............7.5"-9"
   (I mounted them on 7" rims- they looked normal and I was assured by the
     tire people they would wear just fine at 32-35psi)


 EXCESSIVE IRON rules the road!
'65 442
'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender
 bryceman@442.com
 www.442.com

------------------------------

From: Nick DiGiovanni <ndigiova@direct.ca>
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 16:10:37 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: "n-bolt" rear ends... 

At 03:33 PM 5/17/96 -0300, you wrote:
>In a message dated 96-05-17 09:49:40 EDT, you write:

>I think it was throught 1968 that you could get either a Type O or a Type C 
>axle in the 442, depending on the ratio ordered.  For example, the 3.31:1 was 
>a Type C, while the 3.23:1 and 3.42:1 ratios came in Type O axles.  My 
>original 68 442 (built in Canada, BTW) came with the Type C axle, while my 
>current 68 W-30 has a Type O with the dealer-installed 4.33s.
       
>          Joe Padavano
>          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
>          
>          66 442
>          68 W-30
>          69 H/O
>          70 W-30
>
Actually, 1968-1970 Olds 442's (and I believe all Olds for that matter)
built in the US plants all had the Type O rear axle.  All of the 442's built
in the Oshawa, Ontario plant had the Type C (Chevy) axle.  This explains why
your '68 442 came with the Type C axle.  I guarantee that your '68 W-30 (if
in fact it is a true W car) was built in the Lansing plant and therefore
would have the Type O rear end.  In '71 they went to a GM corporate 10 bolt.
Hope this helps.

Nick DiGiovanni
Port Coquitlam, B.C.
1970 4-4-2 - "Snarls Softly and Carries a Big Kick"

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 18:11:12 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: 442? 

          
The Lightning Rods would have been custom, too - they only came on the 
                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^     
Hurst/Olds, '83 and '84.  

        Hurst did (still?) sell the Lightning Rods aftermarket.  They were 
        supposed to emulate the multiple shift levers on a Pro Stock Lenco 
        manual transmission (hence the tie-in to Warren Johnson's Pro Stock H/O 
        in 83-84).

Anyway, I once saw (drove by, couldn't stop at the time) a G-body 442, or maybe 
a G-body Cutlass with a really good imitation of a 442 paint scheme, not sure if
the emblems were there or not, but with a roadster top!

        There are a number of aftermarket houses that do convertible conversions 
        on these cars.  The quality varies considerably.
          
Friend of mine gave me a picture he took in Laughlin, Nevada, of a 4-door 
C*rvette!!  With 4-panel t-tops, no less!! Gotta dig that up...
          
          There was an outfit that built these in the late 70's - 
          early 80's.  I recall articles in Car and Driver and Road 
          and Track.  They used two sets of the stock Corvette doors 
          and four T-tops, which did not make for a particularly 
          attractive automobile!
          
          My first car was a 1968 "442" Vista Cruiser.  I'd inherited 
          the family car when my parents bought a new one and promptly 
          went out and bought a 442 grille (something like $15 brand 
          new from the dealer in 1975 - sigh) and emblems.  The stock 
          350 2bbl single exhaust motor progressively got a 4bbl, dual 
          exhausts, and headers.  Ultimately it was replaced with a 
          425, which was able to embarass numerous Mach 1s and 
          Camaros.  The interior got buckets and a factory console, 
          while the suspension was treated to factory 442 anti-sway 
          bars, SS II wheels, and BFG T/As (245-60 x 14).  Unbeknownst 
          to me, I had virtually replicated a car built by Car and 
          Driver and Oldsmobile in 1968, only theirs had a 455.  They 
          called it "Son of Boss Wagon", as it was a follow-on to a 
          Hemi-powered 66 Plymouth wagon they had built.
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 18:28:34 -0300
Subject: Re[4]: "n-bolt" rear ends... 

Actually, 1968-1970 Olds 442's (and I believe all Olds for that matter) 
built in the US plants all had the Type O rear axle.  All of the 442's built 
in the Oshawa, Ontario plant had the Type C (Chevy) axle.  This explains why 
your '68 442 came with the Type C axle.  I guarantee that your '68 W-30 (if 
in fact it is a true W car) was built in the Lansing plant and therefore 
would have the Type O rear end.  In '71 they went to a GM corporate 10 bolt. 
Hope this helps.
          
Nick DiGiovanni
Port Coquitlam, B.C.
1970 4-4-2 - "Snarls Softly and Carries a Big Kick"


          I must admit that I didn't realize that the Type C axle was 
          Canadian only...actually learned something today.  Yes, the 
          W-30 is real and is Lansing-built.  Also has the red 
          fenderwells, "D" heads, etc, etc, in addition to UHV 
          ignition, PSeats, PWindows, and tilt.  The 4.33, 4.66, and 
          5.00 rear end ratios were available as dealer-installed 
          options through at least 1970.
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: clark@sh28.dseg.ti.com (Pat Clark 952-3776)
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 18:39:45 -0300
Subject: TVS 

	Just bought a new thermo vacuum switch from NAPA and had a question
that I could answer by trial and error but thought I might go the easy way 
first. The new switch has molded in letters at each of the three ports. They
say (from top to bottom) "1", "D", "2". I would assume that this means 1st
vac source, dist vac advance, and 2nd vac source, respectivly. This is not the
routing that is in my service manual. Anybody tried one of these? I know I can
test it by switching hoses around but thought I would ask you guys.
	By the way Joe, the first car I ever had to drive was also a station
wagon but mine was a 73 Torino wagon two-tone (blue and rust) Gaaack! First,
car I ever had as my own was a 70 firebird ( I know its not an olds, but at 
least it wasn't a Ch*vy or a F*rd, cut me some slack, you let Andrew G. get
away with it! ;>)

Drop me a line this weekend if any of you have an answer to the above question.

See Ya,


          ___              ___        _________
         /   |            /   |      /         \
        /    |           /    |     |   ___    |
       /     |          /     |     |__|   |   |
      /      |         /      |           /   /   
     /       |        /       |          /   /   
    /   /|   |       /   /|   |         /   /
   /   /_|   |__    /   /_|   |__      /   /
  |             |  |             |    /   /
  |______     __|  |______     __|   /   /_____
         |   |            |   |     |          |      Pat Clark
         |___|            |___|     |__________|       69 442
						      400/400

   "Just your average 300+hp garage hogging, gas sucking, money pit"

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 17:48:37 -0300
Subject: Re: TVS  

>( I know its not an olds, but at 
>least it wasn't a Ch*vy or a F*rd, cut me some slack, you let Andrew G. get
>away with it! ;>)

Hey, no fair, _I_ never said I owned a Ford!  :-)

Okay, _my_ first car _was_ a Ch*vy, a '75 Vega GT wagon that I bought for
$50. I still have the Bill of Sale, too; it contains such phrases as
"believe it or not"...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 19:00:36 -0300
Subject: Re: 442?

At 04:39 PM 5/17/96 -0300, you wrote:

>Friend of mine gave me a picture he took in Laughlin, Nevada, of a 4-door
C*rvette!!  With 4-panel t-tops, no less!! Gotta dig that up...
>
>There's some, uh, *unique* cars out there if you look!
>
There's a Corvette running around town here that somebody grafted a station
wagon rear upper section to.  Looks like the graft is from a Pinto station
wagon or maybe C*evy Monza wagon (did they even make those?)  Made a
Corvette station wagon.  Whole front end is 'Vette, rear lower is 'Vette
quarters, rear upper is wagon graft.  It actually looks *really* stupid.
Good workmanship, though.  It is pretty clean...
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

 "I was put on this earth to accomplish a certain number of things;
    right now I'm so far behind, I'll never die"  --Calvin

------------------------------

From: clark@sh28.dseg.ti.com (Pat Clark 952-3776)
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 19:34:59 -0300
Subject: Re: TVS

> From oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca Fri May 17 16:59 CDT 1996
> X-Sender: acg@dlogics.dlogics.com
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Date: 	Fri, 17 May 1996 17:48:37 -0300
> To: oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
> From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
> Subject: Re: TVS 
> 
> >( I know its not an olds, but at 
> >least it wasn't a Ch*vy or a F*rd, cut me some slack, you let Andrew G. get
> >away with it! ;>)
> 
> Hey, no fair, _I_ never said I owned a Ford!  :-)
> 
> Okay, _my_ first car _was_ a Ch*vy, a '75 Vega GT wagon that I bought for
> $50. I still have the Bill of Sale, too; it contains such phrases as
> "believe it or not"...
> 
> Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
> Datalogics, Inc.
> 441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
> Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473
> 
> 
> 


_I_ never said I owned one either! It was my parents (so there!). First car I   owned was a Pontiac (Boy I miss that car, sold It to the neighbor who promptly  wrapped it around a tree!) A ch*vy?! Really Andrew! ;>) (never owned one of     those!)


          ___              ___        _________
         /   |            /   |      /         \
        /    |           /    |     |   ___    |
       /     |          /     |     |__|   |   |
      /      |         /      |           /   /   
     /       |        /       |          /   /   
    /   /|   |       /   /|   |         /   /
   /   /_|   |__    /   /_|   |__      /   /
  |             |  |             |    /   /
  |______     __|  |______     __|   /   /_____
         |   |            |   |     |          |      Pat Clark
         |___|            |___|     |__________|       69 442
						      400/400

   "Just your average 300+hp garage hogging, gas sucking, money pit"

------------------------------

From: Cary Yamamoto <yamamoto@unr.edu>
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 19:47:03 -0300
Subject: A/C Airflow

I was driving my grandmother around in her '82 Buick Regal which is
basically a facelifted Olds Cutlass.  Anyway, I turned on the A/C and the
flow didn't come thru the vents, but blew out the floor registers.  I can
make the defrost come thru the vents near the windshield and if I mess
with it for a while, I can get the air to come out the front vents.  My
guess is that the vacuum diaphragm may be leaking.  Anyway to check these
without ripping out the whole dashboard?



Cary Yamamoto                                 University of NV, Reno
Coordinator,                                  Prospective Students/110
Prospective Students                          Reno, NV  89557
                                              (702) 784-4865 
	                                      (702) 784-1852 fax	 

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 22:01:00 -0300
Subject: Re: Hoosier Followup 

At 17.02 05,17,96 -0300, you wrote:
>This is the tire info from the Hoosier literature I have...
>
>T rated Radial GT
>Description....................P275/60R15
>Part #.........................107T
>Load Range.....................SL
>Sidewall Letter Ht.............LW
>Construction...................2+2+2
>Rim Width......................8.0
>Outside Diameter...............28.0"
>Tire Width.....................11.0"
>Tread Width....................8.9"
>Revs Per Mile..................744
>Approved Rim Width.............7.5"-9"
>   (I mounted them on 7" rims- they looked normal and I was assured by the
>     tire people they would wear just fine at 32-35psi)
>
>
> EXCESSIVE IRON rules the road!
>'65 442
>'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender
> bryceman@442.com
> www.442.com
>
>

whats the average price on these?  my Bravada truck would look excellent
with these
                    zack

>
      ___
     /. .\
    _\_*_/_                     -<Buddha>-
   / /   \ \                   Buddha@itw.com
   \_\___/_/            HTTP://www2.itw.com/~buddha/
  /___\_/___\         "I only kill to know i'm alive"
 *************

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 17:24:32 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: "n-bolt" rear ends...

>
> 
> I think it was throught 1968 that you could get either a Type O or a Type C
> axle in the 442, depending on the ratio ordered.  For example, the 3.31:1 was
> a Type C, while the 3.23:1 and 3.42:1 ratios came in Type O axles.  My
> original 68 442 (built in Canada, BTW) came with the Type C axle, while my
> current 68 W-30 has a Type O with the dealer-installed 4.33s.
> 
> 
> 
>           Joe Padavano
>           jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
> 
>           66 442
>           68 W-30
>           69 H/O
>           70 W-30

I owned a 1973 Cutlass 455CI with W-30 option for 16 years that had a c 
type (clips on axle) 3"23 Positraction.  I purchased the car new and had 
to replace one axle when my daughter got hit at that wheel practicing 
for her drivers test.  My 1968 4-4-2 4-speed with a 3;90 positraction 
rear is the 12 bolt o type (bolt on flange at backing plate).  I don't 
know about others.

I have 2:93 and 3;42 Buick positraction units that I haven't looked at, 
but my 1970 Buick 455 GS has an open 2;76 and it is the clip type.

Bill Culp

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 17:34:52 -0300
Subject: Re: 442?

eda@dl.tc.faa.gov wrote:
> 
> Buddha <buddha@itw.com> wrote:
> 
> > ok, i was driving down to school today when i saw a strange sight...a 4 dr.
> > 442!!!  now i doubt these were even made but it was there...it looked to be
> > an 87 and it even had front bucket seats, the Hurst Lightning rods, and a
> 
> 
> There's some, uh, *unique* cars out there if you look!
> 
> oops, bad Ed! bad!
> Ed Atlee                        '77 Cutlass Supreme
> eda@dl.tc.faa.gov               '84 Hurst/Olds
>         R O C K E T     P O W E R E D ! !
> 
> that's better

If you want to see some unique cars, look in the engineering shops at 
Western Michigan University, Michigan State University, and the 
University of Michigan.  When I was at these schools in the early to mid 
1960's, the auto companies had given many outdated displays, cars, 
engines, and other engineering mock-ups to those schools for use of the 
students.  There were some beauties and I am sure that these weren't the 
only schools to receive such nice gifts.

Bill Culp

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 02:59:45 -0300
Subject: Re: Hoosier Followup

Bryceman wrote:
> 
> This is the tire info from the Hoosier literature I have...
>

I recently purchased a set of 4 new Hoosier GT's for my Z/28. They are on 14 inch rims, 
P235/60R14 in rear, P215/70R14 in front. I have run then about 1000 miles since the 
purchase and they are great. Handling is very good, wet weather traction is good also. 
The guys at Summit Racing (where I got them) said that they will "wear like iron"... So 
far they look good. Good purchase Bryceman, you will like these tires.

- -- 
Jason P. Labay (Akron, Ohio)				  z28cfi@gwis.com
Grad Student in Sport Administration at Kent State U.     f-list since: 7/95
1988 Camaro Z/28 Cross-Fire Injection 305
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 03:13:15 -0300
Subject: Re: Hoosier Followup

Buddha wrote:
> 
> At 17.02 05,17,96 -0300, you wrote:
> >This is the tire info from the Hoosier literature I have...
> >
> >T rated Radial GT
> >Description....................P275/60R15
> >Part #.........................107T
> >Load Range.....................SL
> >Sidewall Letter Ht.............LW
> >Construction...................2+2+2
> >Rim Width......................8.0
> >Outside Diameter...............28.0"
> >Tire Width.....................11.0"
> >Tread Width....................8.9"
> >Revs Per Mile..................744
> >Approved Rim Width.............7.5"-9"
> >   (I mounted them on 7" rims- they looked normal and I was assured by the
> >     tire people they would wear just fine at 32-35psi)
> >
> >
> > EXCESSIVE IRON rules the road!
> >'65 442
> >'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender
> > bryceman@442.com
> > www.442.com
> >
> >
> 
> whats the average price on these?  my Bravada truck would look excellent
> with these
>                     zack
> 
> >
>       ___
>      /. .\
>     _\_*_/_                     -<Buddha>-
>    / /   \ \                   Buddha@itw.com
>    \_\___/_/            HTTP://www2.itw.com/~buddha/
>   /___\_/___\         "I only kill to know i'm alive"
>  *************

I purchased my Hoosiers from Summit Racing for $53/ea front and $62/ea. rear. Was around 
$260 total with tax.
- -- 
Jason P. Labay (Akron, Ohio)				  z28cfi@gwis.com
Grad Student in Sport Administration at Kent State U.     f-list since: 7/95
1988 Camaro Z/28 Cross-Fire Injection 305
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 01:21:31 -0300
Subject: Re: Hoosier Followup 

At 03.13 05,18,96 -0300, you wrote:
>Buddha wrote:
snip snip
>> whats the average price on these?  my Bravada truck would look excellent
>> with these
>>                     zack
>> 
>> >
>>       ___
>>      /. .\
>>     _\_*_/_                     -<Buddha>-
>>    / /   \ \                   Buddha@itw.com
>>    \_\___/_/            HTTP://www2.itw.com/~buddha/
>>   /___\_/___\         "I only kill to know i'm alive"
>>  *************
>
>I purchased my Hoosiers from Summit Racing for $53/ea front and $62/ea.
rear. Was around 
>$260 total with tax.
>-- 
>Jason P. Labay (Akron, Ohio)				  z28cfi@gwis.com
>Grad Student in Sport Administration at Kent State U.     f-list since: 7/95
>1988 Camaro Z/28 Cross-Fire Injection 305
>1975 Hurst/Olds W-25
>
>

thanks...those prices are alot better than the BFGoodrich tires was thinking
of getting...and hoosier soudns better
                         Zack
      ___
     /. .\
    _\_*_/_                     -<Buddha>-
   / /   \ \                   Buddha@itw.com
   \_\___/_/            HTTP://www2.itw.com/~buddha/
  /___\_/___\         "I only kill to know i'm alive"
 *************

------------------------------

From: bryce_smith@442.com (Bryceman)
Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 04:25:08 -0300
Subject: Re: Hoosier Followup 

>
>whats the average price on these?  my Bravada truck would look excellent
>with these

Um, I am not sure what the list price is, but I bought 'em for $81 each.
One of my best friends works at a tire store and he convinced the manager
to cut me a deal. The price did not include mount/ balance. The Hoosiers
are made by General Tire if you are looking for a dealer.


 EXCESSIVE IRON rules the road!
'65 442
'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender
 bryceman@442.com
 www.442.com

------------------------------

From: "critter@inow.com" <critter@vader.inow.com>
Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 20:21:26 -0300
Subject: Help 

restoring 64 olds cutlass 442 could use advice and parts thanks.

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #178
********************************

