
oldsmobile-digest           Thursday, 2 May 1996        Volume 01 : Number 164


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: urbanch@magi.com (Chris Urban)
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 14:12:46 -0300
Subject: What is going on 

I thought we were supposed to talk Oldsmobiles here, what is going on?

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 15:34:10 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Stalling (again!) 

          Brass floats are available at most auto parts stores

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: "Meyer I. Stolberg" <mas@cci.com>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 12:24:42 -0300
Subject: Can anyone recommend good wheel locks?

Hey Oldsmofriends,

	Can anyone suggest some good wheel locks besides McGard.  My opinion is

since the recessed pattern on the lug nuts is only like 1/4" deep, the 1/4"

raised section on the key will break off at the most inopportune moment.

I've looked at both local auto parts store and the J.C. Whitney catalog with no

luck.  Any suggestions?


Thanx

Meyer
'91 Quad442 W-41 (190 hp/138 cubic in, normally aspirated)

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 07:12:41 -0300
Subject: Re: Gas money  

     Yup, I'm starting to get a bit annoyed.  I hope it goes back down 
     before our road-trip vacation this year!  I'm thinking about removing 
     the Hypertech chip in my '84 H/O and replacing the stock chip so that 
     I can use 87 octane!  Maybe I'll just try retarding the timing a bit 
     to use 89 octane.
     
     Super is about $1.56 here in Spokane.  I think Unleaded is about 
     $1.40, not sure since I don't buy it.
     
     However, I did just hear that WA State has decided to no longer 
     require Oxygenated fuel in the winter months.  Oh, happy days!!
     
     I'm not sure what it'll do to the value of muscle cars.  It may hurt 
     some, esp. if they're looking to buy it for a daily driver, but I 
     don't think that people will freak and start selling their muscle cars 
     for pennies-on-the-dollar like during the energy crisis of the '70's.
     
     Then again, all the people up in Canada have had to live with prices 
     like this for quite some time.  Up in BC last summer I found some 95 
     octane at a Chevron station.  Decided to try it just for the heck of 
     it in my low-compression, wimpy-but-good-gas-mileage 260 we were 
     driving.  The thing ran incredibly well and smooth!  I didn't measure, 
     but I'm sure I got at least 50 more miles out of that tank!  I know 
     higher octane shouldn't make a difference on a low compression engine 
     that doesn't need it, but that's what I saw.
     
     Anyone in Californa want to say how the Reformulated gas is working 
     with their Olds?

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Gas money 
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    5/1/96 9:12 AM


Any one getting a little uncomfortable about these gas prices?  How do 
you think it will affect the value of the older Olds's?  What is the 
price for premium where you live?
     
     
     

------------------------------

From: Charley Buehner <buehner@cis.nmclites.edu>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 14:45:54 -0300
Subject: Re: Trouble codes

On Wed, 1 May 1996, Shawn M. Twomey wrote:

> Thanks much Andy.  I was aware that there was a way to view the "check
> engine" codes, but never bothered to look it up...I was just hoping someone
> had run into this before and would know right away....lazy, lazy.  Anyway....
> 
> The code I get is 15, which the service manual lists as "Coolant sensor
> open."  "Code 15 means the ECM has seen the resistance of the Coolant Sensor
> Circuit too high as follows:
>         High resistance (cold engine temp)
>         or high voltage (at ECM terminal '3')
>         for a longer time than specified
> this could cause detonation on a warm engine due to too much spark advance
> or poor driveability due to wrong fuel control."
> 
> ...I'm not a gearhead (I'm trying!  :) ), but I can't see any relation
> between this and gaining & losing several hundred RPM at highway speed,
> which I HAD assumed was the lock-up torque converter coming undone, since I
> had that problem before.  The car starts a little rough, esp. when cold, but
> for a carb with 150K on it I think that's understandable, could use a
> rebuild, OK, but otherwise runs great, no detonation (which would be
> obvious, right, like a "knocking"?  Ignorance showing thru big time here...).
> 
> Anyway, if I get ambitious I'll have pop help me go thru the diags listed
> for that code (checking voltages & so forth), and if the RPM thing annoys me
> enough I'll haul it to the tranny shop (DOH!)

	A question I have involves this RPM change.  Is the change caused 
by an openning TCC, or is it simply a surge condition?  Many transmission 
failures are simply engine tune problems.  ("My car don't shift..." -- 
"Your car don't run, how can it shift?"  etc. etc.)  If the CTS is open, 
the computer thinks the car is running at -40deg F.  That's pretty cold.  
That's pretty rich, too.  (Remember the purpose of chokes? Same principle 
here...)  I imagine that the O2 sensor can be detecting this really rich 
condition and cutting the fuel back to compensate, forcing a lean 
condition.  This could, in extreme circumstances, cause fairly violent 
RPM swings (or at least noticeable)  that could be easily mistaken for a 
slipping TCC.  If the RPM swings came into existance at the same time the 
Check Engine light came on, I'd say there is a strong likelyhood of 
correlation between those two events.  (Not likely the TCC)  
	I'd try checking the resistance of the coolant temp sensor and 
see if it shows an open condition.  After that, I'd probably replace it 
(if it failed) or check the wiring at the sensor.  Those go bad on a lot 
of cars.  Odds are good that the surging will go away, if I'm 
interpreting the symptoms correctly.
	Good Luck

	Charley Buehner
	Rockit 1
 	buehner@cis.nmclites.edu
	http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
 

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 13:46:41 -0300
Subject: Re: Can anyone recommend good wheel locks? 

>	Can anyone suggest some good wheel locks besides McGard.  My opinion is
>since the recessed pattern on the lug nuts is only like 1/4" deep, the 1/4"
>raised section on the key will break off at the most inopportune moment.
>I've looked at both local auto parts store and the J.C. Whitney catalog with
>no luck.  Any suggestions?

Haven't seen any significantly different ones. I don't suppose it would
help if I said that the risk is more likely that of losing the key altogether
rather than breaking the end off?  :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Charley Buehner <buehner@cis.nmclites.edu>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 14:54:22 -0300
Subject: Re: Gas money 

On Wed, 1 May 1996, Doug McClanahan wrote:

> Any one getting a little uncomfortable about these gas prices?  How do 
> you think it will affect the value of the older Olds's?  What is the 
> price for premium where you live?

	Here in Havre, MT, We're looking at around $1.54 for 91 octane.  
Add $8.00 for 104 Octane boost....
	I don't know about this stuff.  They could raise the cost to 3 
bucks a gallon, and I'd still go cough up 30 gallons a week.  This is 
America.  They can choke us, but they cant take our gas hogs away!  
	On a lighter note, milk is around three bucks a gallon, and we 
still buy it...  (granted, it lasts longer than a tank of gas....)
	It doesn't matter how they jack the gas prices, it's still too 
high, but it sure would be nice to see it fall back where it belongs 
(about 35 cents a gallon :)  )
		
	Charley Buehner
	buehner@cis.nmclites.edu
	http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner

------------------------------

From: Doug McClanahan <mcclan@wsdot.wa.gov>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 14:54:17 -0300
Subject: Value.  Gas. ...and sorry!

I just purchased a 1967 CS and I'm in the process of 
restoring it - but as luck would have it, I ran across 
a 1967 4 speed 442 that is in my neck of the woods.  
I don't know what it is worth though.  I am hoping that
some of you will be able to give me a general understanding 
of what the approximate value of a condition 2, 1967 442 
with a 4 speed is.

For this car, what are the "main" things (besides the 4 
speed, the 442 status and the basic condition of the car) 
that affect its value?  Any thing special I should be looking
for?

PS I'm sorry about the gas question, I was just wondering 
how it would affect the value of the car in question.

Thanks.

Doug
mcclan@wsdot.wa.gov

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 14:55:32 -0300
Subject: Re: Gas money 

> Any one getting a little uncomfortable about these gas prices?  How do 
> you think it will affect the value of the older Olds's?  What is the 
> price for premium where you live?

	
	Here in Missoula MT, plain 'ol unleaded has been floating around 
$1.47 a gallon (what I've been using in my...f-body--that 8.5 compression 
would be happy burning cheap whisky).  Premium is running somewhere 
around $1.60 a gallon.  Yikes!  

	I was reading something in the school paper about this today in 
fact.  According to the paper, the high prices are being caused by 
several things-- like the supply being lower than normal, this part of 
year being the "peak" time with tourist season comming up, and the fact 
that there is talk of allowing Iraq to export oil has kept export from 
other countries lower than normal.  

	Boy, sure makes me miss the time I spent living in Cheyenne WY a 
couple years ago...Regular Unleaded for $.99 a gallon, and Premium for 
$1.10!!!

			Scott
		1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 13:53:06 -0300
Subject: Re: How to find your long-lost car (Was Re: Selling the Cutl 

>     YES!  I would like to have that number!

Okay, folks, you can thank my wife for venturing into our basement
and pulling the Bonneville file for me just now...

The number of this outfit is (800) 274-2277, and the name is CarFax.
The charge as far as I can remember is $20-$25, something like that.
You need the VIN of the car in question, and (I think) the state you
want to search for, although thinking about it, I guess that shouldn't
matter since the car VIN is unique.

Anyway, good luck, have fun, be nice to the guy on the other end of
the phone, etc. I have no connection to this outfit other than as a
one-time customer, and if you find another company that does the same
service for less, great; tell us all about it.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Doug Ahern <doug@cobra.cosmic.uga.edu>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 15:01:26 -0300
Subject: Re: Gas money 

> Any one getting a little uncomfortable about these gas prices?  How do 
> you think it will affect the value of the older Olds's?  What is the 
> price for premium where you live?

1.37 for 93octane here in NE Georgia.  oil companies are jacking up prices
yet  the price per barrel or crude oil isn't going up.  I think its a scam,
they are jacking up rates, so that next month when it does down 10cents
we will all feel good.  A couple of federal agencies are officially looking
into it...  I think its trade comission, or the dept of commerce... one
of those...    My brother in LA has seen $2/gallon at some pumps...

------------------------------

From: MIKE COCCAGNA <mikec@pop.kis.net>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 16:21:51 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Gas money

> Gas in the cities (we're cities, not burbs) 40 miles west of Chicago
> is 1.35 to 1.40 for the cheap stuff.  Premium is 1.55+.  Has been
> jumping up over the last 3 weeks.
 
Not meaning to through gas on the fire (sorry, had to do it), but I 
saw premium unleaded this AM at $1.65 a gallon here aroung D.C.

Sure makes me glad my 442-lite gets 30+mpg!

Mike
'91 W-40 Quad442 (The fuel sipper w/180+ bhp)

------------------------------

From: "Shawn M. Twomey" <stwom@ctp.com>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 15:25:15 -0300
Subject: Re: Trouble codes 

>Look for the two-wire, twisted pair lead pugged onto the top of the sensor

Thanks, I'll try that when I get a chance.

>If the TCC is coming undone at highway speed, it might be weak manifold 
>vacuum from a partially-blocked catalytic convertor that fools the 
>transmission into kicking down too much, or even just a funky brake light 
>switch -- I think touching the brake releases the TCC solenoid, just like 
>it releases your cruise control.

Well, I bought the car with no cat convertors on it, and haven't quite seen
fit to replace them  :)  ......if it were the brake light switch, I'd have
my cruise disengaging all the time along with the TCC, right?  Thanks
anyway, but I'm afraid this puppy's headed for the shop.  I guess I'll try
and make sure that vacuums good everywhere first....

__________________________________________________________________________
Shawn M. Twomey     |  "No!  Try NOT!  Do, or do not.  There is no try."
stwom@ctp.com       |  -Yoda
__________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

From: Cary Yamamoto <yamamoto@unr.edu>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 15:24:33 -0300
Subject: Re: Gas money 

Gas prices in Reno are ranging from 1.59 to 1.79 for premium.



Cary Yamamoto                                 University of NV, Reno
Coordinator,                                  Prospective Students/110
Prospective Students                          Reno, NV  89557
                                              (702) 784-4865 
	                                      (702) 784-1852 fax	 

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 15:46:39 -0300
Subject: Re: What is going on 

In a message dated 96-05-01 13:20:47 EDT, you write:

>I thought we were supposed to talk Oldsmobiles here, what is going on?

Chris,

I see nothing wrong with this disscussion. Without gas you can't drive your
Oldsmobile!

I'll go one step further, beyond the $ of gas, try getting GOOD gas,
especially when they are adding MTBE in the gas here in Milwaukee!!!!
Although, they are swtiching to thier "supposed" summer blend.  Yeah, right!
 

Premium (MTBE) $1.49 here.  Only 93 octane too...):

Greg K

------------------------------

From: "Peg O'Connor" <peg@grove.ufl.EDU>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 15:49:08 -0300
Subject: Re: What is going on

> I thought we were supposed to talk Oldsmobiles here, what is going on?

What are you talking about?  Everything here in some way at least 
tangentially relates to our favorite pastime . . . :)

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 15:54:01 -0300
Subject: Misc Stuffs

> Man, I hope you told him all about us here... it would be neat to have a
> development engineer on the list! Maybe he knows why the 403 has those
> windowed webs.
> Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Good point... next time I see him...

> The difference between stock head HP numbers is minimal. C and E can be
> ported with equal results.

Having no flow bench [yet], I can't say for sure, but the folks who do have
flow benches say that C's are best and pay accordingly for them. I tend to
agree with the above, that for us regular folks, BB heads is heads. Except
maybe the J's. In that event, you might want to use the heads with press-in xst
seats for the most-driven car, or convert the C's to such. The C's have the
legendary 'best flow' reputation, and that's why I said I'd drop the E's, run 2
pr. of C's... if it ever comes time to sell, you can ride the wave of legend
and point out that she has 'the C's'.... -Chris-

> Believe it or not, you can just body work that oil pan if it it isn't a
> leak problem.  I have worked & bondoed those things on show cars many
> times.  Use good stuff and heat won't be any problem but do properly
> prepare the metal.
> Bill

Amazing what a powered sanding disk can do for the appearance... let alone
filler & such. -Chris-

> From: Michael Blennerhassett <blenner@fhs.csu.McMaster.CA>
> Subject: 66 Toronado pitman arm
>
> Can anyone help with NOS or replacement for this "66 only" part??
> I replaced mine with a used one from California about a year ago, and now
> that one is gone...

I gots two of 'em, if you cannot find a suitable new one. Sounds like you can,
from further discussion, tho. Um, one subtle difference would be the taper on
the ball joint. I went thru this in getting a center link and idler arm for the
68 98 a while back... two kinds were used, with different tapers, not
interchangeable [what the hell were them engineers drinking?]. Apparently gold-
covered platinum, at $200 delivered for the center link... -Chris-

> About 7 years ago (give or take), I had a '69 Cutlass 'S'
> convertible.  Gold, with (I think) non-correct but lovely
> Olds factory mags (chromed spokes, black background, Olds
> centerhub) that was my pride and joy.  After having a couple

Sounds like the 'correct' SSI's to me...

> Here in Ontario Canada, any used car purchaser must buy a kit containing

"must buy" !!?!?! Sheesh. Is this the same folks who care what your radio is,
perchance? -Chris-

> Subject: Carb number decoding
> Does anyone know how to decode the numbers on Rochester Quadrajet carbs?
> I found a chart in Year One's catalog, and did it, but I really don't think
> it's correct.
> confirmed this himself.  The number on my carb is 7028273 XX.  According to
> Year One's chart, a 170 or 70 at the beginning signifies a Rochester
- --snip much good info--
> Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme

I think the above info is pretty complete & accurate. I had figured out that
much just by studying the # listings on cars I've seen, and in a tune-up book I
have that covers about '68-72 Rochester carbs. Basically:

70... was earlier carbs, before oh, about 1976 or so...

170... was the next progression

Next 2 digits give the year: 27= 1967, 28=1968... then the 30's get skipped,
and it goes to the 40's in oh, 1970, with like 7040xxx being a '70 carb.

The last three digits then specify the car, engine, etc. pretty much as you
outlined. From my meager observations, I discerned that the low 200's, like 212
tend to be C*evy, Olds is *usually* about in the 250's, with Toros usually 252,
but 131 was also a Toro carb [7027131... Greg?] and some W-cars used 900-series
carbs, esp. if in the 40's middle #'s....
  Also, 2V carbs usually had 0XX last 3 digits, like 7026055 I think was one of
the tri-carb intake's carbs... -Chris-

Speaking of numbers being off a bit, I stopped to look at a 66 big car the
other day... not for sale :(  It had the big engine, as per usual, but with C
heads, and no indication that they had ever been changed. Too much AC bracket
in the way to get the Engine Unit Code, but hey aren't 66 & 67 the same anyhow?
Where's that FAQ when I need it!? -Chris-

> Ever thought about writing a country song about your life story :)
> Sounds like it would make a good one!
> Jeff Hunter

Be sure to mention an Olds!
  Ever notice how Steven King likes to use Olds in his writings? Esp. the
Toro... maybe he has the virus, too. :)  Funny, I bought parts the other day,
tax came to... 4.42!  Had a Virago [motorcycle, not viscious [sp?] woman] that
i loved dearly... its serial number? 100442! Coincidence? you be the judge.
- -Chris-

> From: Bob Valentine <ravalent@liii.com>
>     I'll verify a sighting.   I worked in a salvage yard a few years ago,
> and I pulled a 403 from a (formerly 350 Diesel) Delta 88.   I was going
> to rebuild the motor, but I decided that it was a little to far gone
> (the rings were in the oil pan) to rebuild and took a clean 350 instead.
>    Unfortunatly, I didn't know what it was at the time...
>    YES it was a 403 (stamped on the side), and YES it did have solid webs.
>                      -->   Bob Valentine  <--

OK, we have a stronger rumor now! Who'll be the first to step forward with
visual PROOF such as photos or video and claim the 'fabulous prizes' that I
offer in exchange for such evidence? -Chris-

> According to your decoding theory....Gregg Ludlams Carb..#7027131 (for his 67
> Toronado?) came off a Cadillac! It's possible, I suppose, they used an
> interchangable carb between Olds and Caddy that year, especially since that
> was the first year the Eldo was FWD.

Hmmmmm... well, that carb is listed in *the* Olds service manual as correct for
that Toro, so that throws a wrench in to Yr1's version of the #'s. -Chris-

> > Now, I need to schmooze him for job contacts! Networking! Yes!
> Chris:
> I read this and sure would like to get this man's address.  I would like
> to ask him some questions about my Jetfire.  The obvious question is
> "WHY?"
> Bill

Well,before I give out his address, etc., I better clear it with him 1st, but
he's semi-retired, teaching a bit, and seems eager enough to talk about stuff.
He'd be a GREAT asset here, huh? :) -Chris-

> Here's how the numbers decode according to Year One's chart:
> For a Q-jet #7027131 XX
>    70  - Product Identification: Rochester
>    27  - Model Year Identification:  27 = 1967
>    1  - Identifies 49 state usage or California emissions
>  (there is no "1" on Year One's list for this position, only 2 or 5, hmmm)
>    3  - Product Identification:  3 = Cadillac
>    1  - Transmission Identification: 1 = Manual
>    XX  - Letter Designation: Used to identify engine assembly plant or vehicle
>                           assembly plant where the carb was shipped.  There
>                           are numerous codes, but they do not affect the
>                           application.

Good God! I had NO IDEA that was from a Manual trans Cadillac Toro! Greg, you
owe me about $500 more for something that rare! I bet it was a 4-door *manual
trans* Cadillac Toro, too! :) :) :) I kill me! -Chris-


> Don't know how accurate this is, s'pose you could contact Muscle Car Review
> and ask.  It decodes my carb (69 Cutlass, automatic trans) for a 68 Pontiac
> manual trans (#7028273).  Not that I really care, just kinda wierd...
> Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
> dpauliso@metrolink.net

That sounds about right to me... year & application. Check HMN, you might find
a buyer waiting for THAT carb willing to pay enough for you to get a new or
rebuilt unit with a more nearly 'correct' Olds number... like 7029251...

> From: PHartlieb@aol.com
> Subject: Comfortron
 > > That special heater control valve with 2-3 small vacuum lines coming of it
> is critical too.
>
> receiver/dryer) to the tune of  about $800.  Anyway, looking for a '67 *only*
> heater control valve w/Comfortron.  Evidently '66 & '68 are different.
> Paul
> (& his Comfortron equipped '67 98 Holiday Coupe)

Well... If UBU condition is acceptable, I might have one. The red 66 Toro has
what appears to be a 67 engine: C heads, 7027131 carb, etc. -Chris-
I also have a 67 98 LS parts car, but don't think it has the C'tron...

> (before I was born, but not by much!!!) The SOP for brake jobs (at the time)
> was to soak the brake shoes in gas, and place in the middle of the shop floor
> and ignite (thus drying the shoe and burning off all of the oil/grease/gas
>  etc. Not that I advocate such today, but beyond the dangers, it still works
> for me.

Whee! and I thought *I* was a pyromaniac! -Chris-

> stuck in the de-icer mode! Doesn't it always seem after endeless parts
> replacement (that were good), the  LAST one you replace is the one!  Now,
> after $$$$$ later, you find that the last $28 part you changed out was the
> problem.....AAARRRGGGHHHH!

Well, it it'll make you feel better, just keep on replacing $20-30 items AFTER
the problem is solved... :) -Chris-

> Maybe the secret of these special plugs lies in their design.  Could it
> be that they are similar to multi-plug heads which help keep mixture lit
> when its especially hard to light off? (Big compression, big boost, big
> nitrous, etc etc)

I should think that more of the above would make the charge easier to ignite.
But, then, I could be wrong.
  Say, didn't someone recently advocate indexing the spark plugs poining the
gap toward the intake valve? Seems to me that the last time the intake was open
was over a stroke ago, and what would make more sense would be to orient the
gap towards the center of the combustion chamber... others' thoughts on this?
- -Chris-

> mine has.  The 24 would indicate a "series 20."  The beginning 70 indicates a
> Rochester product.  But what does the 5th digit, a "0", mean?
> Daniel A. Gulino

It meas 2V according to MY readings... -Chris-
But, hey, I'm just a *brother appointed* expert, I don't write magazine
articles you know...  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ love that phrase!

> Any one getting a little uncomfortable about these gas prices?  How do
> you think it will affect the value of the older Olds's?  What is the
> price for premium where you live?

Well, usually about $1.15 for lo-test, and $1.30 for hi-test. Jumped about 7
cents above that about 1-2 weeks ago. For no apparent reason. I thought there
must be a holiday [not Holiday] coming up or something...
  Oh, and one local station sells primo for same $ as lo-test, but ONLY ON
TUESDAYS... the rest of the week you get reamed as per usual. Long lines on
Tuesdays of course. Wonder why they do that sorta thing? Why not just a medium
price all the time...? -Chris-

> I'll be back in early September.
>             Robb Yasczak    vjtd@grove.iup.edu
>             1969 Cutlass
>             1969 442
>             1976 442
>             1981 Cutlass (soon)
>             1985 Cutlass

If you get up to Lansing for the show/ swap meet, look for me there! Wearing
the Web t-shirt, of COURSE! -Chris-
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: Doug McClanahan <mcclan@wsdot.wa.gov>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 15:57:12 -0300
Subject: torque question

I am putting my front end back together and some torque specs are not in 
my Olds repair manual.  Does any one know how many foot pounds of torque 
I am supposed to apply to my 67 CS upper a-arm shaft nuts (the nuts that 
tighten against the adjustment shims)?  How about the other front end 
parts like the anti-sway bars, the other a-arm nuts and bolts, 
center-link, idler arm, etc.

Also, when I installed the replacement upper ball joints, the 
instructions said to tighten the four little bolts (that hold ball joint 
on to the upper a arm) to only 8 ft/lbs.  If I ate some Wheaties, I could 
probably finger tighten the bolts to 8 ft/lbs.  Does this seem right to 
you people?

I am hoping for some input here as this front end stuff is kinda safety 
related (really?)

Thanks,

Doug
mcclan@wsdot.wa.gov

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 16:04:34 -0300
Subject: WARNING & Question

WARNING!
In assembling the race car's 425, for which the owner has chosen one of those
'beautiful' Taiwan Chrome dipsticks & tube... I decided to compare said unit to
a known Olds unit. Well, actually, to a few known Olds units. Oh, gee, what's
this? The Taiwan unit reads 'full' where the GM unit reads about 3/4 quart low,
similar mismatch on the Add mark- about 1/2" on the dipstick.
  So, if you use the Taiwan unit, you might be running over 1/2 Qt low thinking
that all is well & full. If you ever sustain high-rpm use, and/or have a
hi-volume oil pump, this could very well lead to oil starvation, esp. with a
stock 4-qt oil pan.
  4 qts available at best... but driver adds only to the Full mark, say, 3.25
qts... and much of that is fighting its way back from the heads, etc., after/
during high-speed use... bye-bye bearings! Hello, machine shop.
  Not to mention the cheesy 'seal' on the Taiwan unit- there isn't one! Moral:
Use Genuine GM dipstick & guide tube, used if new is not available.

Question:
Ran across a TH400 in the scrap yard today- "65 AA" What the heck is AA? I
am used to OA, OG, PA, PB, etc. where O=Oldsmobile, P=Pontiac, etc.... so, what
the heck is AA???
  Oh, it had *2* wires feeding the trans, so I presume this indicates a
switch-pitch... Is it worth the $20-30 they'd charge for it?

Aside note: scale man saw me pull in, announced on the PA a 'special today,
engines $100'  so I went in & told him that I could *bring in* a half dozen if
they're paying $100 for 'em... :) I love that place; what a contrast to the
JB's at Friedland!
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 15:27:25 -0300
Subject: Re: torque question 

>Also, when I installed the replacement upper ball joints, the 
>instructions said to tighten the four little bolts (that hold ball joint 
>on to the upper a arm) to only 8 ft/lbs.  If I ate some Wheaties, I could 
>probably finger tighten the bolts to 8 ft/lbs.  Does this seem right to 
>you people?

I think so. If they're really little, much more than 8 ft./lbs. could
stretch them or shear them off, plus you've got four of them working 
together to secure the ball joint, plus they're for holding the ball 
joint in position only; they're not really load-bearing.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 16:36:27 -0300
Subject: Re: Can anyone recommend good wheel locks? 

In a message dated 96-05-01 14:04:40 EDT, you write:

>>	Can anyone suggest some good wheel locks besides McGard.  My opinion is
>>since the recessed pattern on the lug nuts is only like 1/4" deep, the 1/4"
>>raised section on the key will break off at the most inopportune moment.
>>I've looked at both local auto parts store and the J.C. Whitney catalog
with
>>no luck.  Any suggestions?
>
>Haven't seen any significantly different ones. I don't suppose it would
>help if I said that the risk is more likely that of losing the key
altogether
>rather than breaking the end off?  :-)

I've used the McGard locks for years, and can't imagine a situation in which
you'd break off the key. You'd shear the lug before you'd shear off that key.

Is this just a theoretical consideration, or have you been shearing off keys
with a 500ft/lb air gun? ;)

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 16:36:49 -0300
Subject: Re: misc. stuffs 

In a message dated 96-04-30 23:50:31 EDT, you write:

>
>Me: 2. I consider computers a tool to be used to communicate, handle info,
>etc., and the less Iknow about how they work, the more I like it. Thus, the
>Macintosh at home. That is for games, keeping track of car folks, etc. On
the
>other hand, I read Olds Service Manuals for entertainment and bedside
>reading.

For a second there, I didn't recognize my post; then I realized it *wasn't*
my post! It's scary when you find people out there *just* like yourself!

>> Car-wise, I've always been interested in how things worked, and
transferred
>> my bicycle wrenching skills (customizing choppers with homemade
sissy-bars)
>
>I used to make bastardized bikes, choppers out of 2 sets of forks, even made

Yup, used to be on the lookout on garbage days for old 10-speeds; now I look
out for rims and heads... Some things never change.

[SNIP!!!]
>> backfiring, lo and behold the BEAST IS ALIVE! Well, partially and on life
>> support, since it won't idle without the choke working.
>
>Congrats, it feels great, huh?

There's a certain rumble from a dual-exhaust 455, kind of hollow and tinny,
that has been missing from my life for *too* long! Glad it's back.

>> mistakenly replaced the recommended Dextron fluid with what looks like
>> cherry-flavored milk. *Carefully* locate a place to install a drain plug,
>
>You didn't replace that did ya? That's the correct color touch-up paint that
>Toros *require* in the trans! :) -Chris-

he-he...

[RESNIP!!]
>>      That's why I'm always on the lookout for the 1977 403's - they did
>> NOT have windowed main webs!
>
>I have two '77 403 blocks on hand. Whatcha give for em? -Chris-

- -Chris- "Hello, Midnight Auto Supplies? I need four tubes of JB Weld, some
cast-iron gray paint, and a half-dozen popsicle sticks, QUICK!"  ;)

>> That's what the rumor was, but as has been mentioned on this list before,
[snip]
>> Mine is the same as on the Vista Cruiser also, but I've never found one in
a
>> Pik-Ur-Part yard that I could recover.
>
>Vista-parting man, are you listening! You DID save ALL the wiring, right?
>-Chris-

Heck, I've even got the *dome light*! (with all wiring, of course!) I posted
about this, but got no reply yet. If he wants it, I'll sell for cheap. (as I
always do...)

- -Bob the parting maniac... (Psst, hey, buddy, wanna buy some "Vista Cruiser"
script..?)

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 16:36:46 -0300
Subject: Re: Comfortron 

In a message dated 96-04-30 23:33:38 EDT, you write:

> Anyway, looking for a '67 *only*
>heater control valve w/Comfortron.  Evidently '66 & '68 are different.
> Fusick's had one for the '67, but it's gone.  

I'd suggest calling Old Air Products (Fusick recommended them when they
didn't have the part). I posted their number in another message, but here it
is if you missed it:

(817) 551-0602

I know I'll be calling them for my main control switch...$$$

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 16:36:51 -0300
Subject: What happened to all the wagons? (was Re: Olds 10-bolt axles) 

In a message dated 96-04-30 23:59:04 EDT, you write:

>> Actually, it is from that '72 Vista Cruiser, so it is an 8.5" *and* it has
>> the big drums (2.5" wide!). I imagine I can get parts for this much easier
>
>     Isn't the V/C a B-Body, and therefore a wider rear?

Nope, it's an A-body. Come to think of it, I've never seen a B or C-body Olds
wagon from the late-60's, and my '69 Service Manual doesn't list a wagon
available in those series. Did they stop making the big wagons for a period
there? I know that they made them in the mid-'70's (an old girlfriend's
parents had one; shoulda pulled that 455 before they towed it...:(

>> than for the 8.5" 12-bolt Olds posi rear in there now with 2.56 gears. 
>
>     Looks like someone swapped rears on that car.  The 12-bolt Olds was 
>only used until '69.  8^)

Nope, it's original. I think the 10-bolts took over in '71 (remember the W-27
option for 12-bolts in 1970?). Then they went to the corporate rear in 1972,
as I understand it.

>> to think of it, the gears and posi carrier from my '76 Monte should work
>> pretty well in that rear; I think it's about a 3.23, which is what I was
>
>    That would be cool - I was hoping to go that route, since I could use 
>a 3.42 posi set from a 70's camaro.  Just make sure your rear is a Corp 
>or Chevy rear....   (ya know, has c-clips)

Yeah, I'm actually thinking of setting them up myself, but getting the pinion
depth, gear mesh, clearances, etc. right is a bit daunting. I suppose I'd
have to shell out for another $200 in tools that I'd use only once or twice,
so I might farm this out.

------------------------------

From: JK McCall <jkmccall@clic.net>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 16:44:22 -0300
Subject: Re: Gas money 

Doug McClanahan wrote:
  What is the
> price for premium where you live?


Regular here in Quibec today went up to 68.9 cents per litre....  Trhs 
cher... :(

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 16:29:28 -0300
Subject: Re: What happened to all the wagons? (was Re: Olds 10-bolt axles) 

A>Nope, it's an A-body. Come to think of it, I've never seen a B or C-body Olds
>wagon from the late-60's, and my '69 Service Manual doesn't list a wagon
>available in those series. Did they stop making the big wagons for a period
>there? I know that they made them in the mid-'70's (an old girlfriend's
>parents had one; shoulda pulled that 455 before they towed it...:(

Oh, let's see what I can remember here... (stares off into space over the
top of his PC)

As random data points, I can think of the following: In 1969, the biggest
Pontiac wagon you could get was indeed the A-body LeMans/Tempest/Custom S
series; our family bought one and I still have the catalog. But if you
bought Ch*vy, you could get an Impala/Caprice wagon from their full-size
battleship series. They made wagons out of their full-size line every year,
in fact. I can't picture a full-size Olds wagon from the late '60's, but
I remember the full-size 1973 Olds wagon owned by our neighbors. It had
a Ninety-Eight front clip and cathedral-style taillights that looked a lot
like the Ninety-Eight sedan taillights of that year but were I think
different parts. Tailgate mechanism was the disappearing-under-the-floor
style first used in 1971; the two-way tailgate remained on the A-body
wagons and re-expanded to the full-size wagons a few years later when the
underfloor tailgate was abandoned.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: proietto@dow.on.doe.ca (Proietto, F.)
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 02:56:25 -0300
Subject: Re: Gas money 

In Toronto, Ontario, Canada, Sunoco Ultra (94 Octane) runs about 68-69 
C/Litre. Regular is about 59.9 C/Litre

What a difference, eh?


Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: clark@sh28.dseg.ti.com (Pat Clark 952-3776)
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 18:16:25 -0300
Subject: junkyard distributors

	This may be a stupid question, but what is the likely-hood of a person
being able to buy a 76-77 HEI out of a junkyard and have the thing work fine?
It just seems to me that an electronic device that is almost 20 years old
should be in need of repair or replacement. Any thoughts you guys?


          ___              ___        _________
         /   |            /   |      /         \
        /    |           /    |     |   ___    |
       /     |          /     |     |__|   |   |
      /      |         /      |           /   /   
     /       |        /       |          /   /   
    /   /|   |       /   /|   |         /   /
   /   /_|   |__    /   /_|   |__      /   /
  |             |  |             |    /   /
  |______     __|  |______     __|   /   /_____
         |   |            |   |     |          |      Pat Clark
         |___|            |___|     |__________|       69 442
						      400/400

   "Just your average 300+hp garage hogging, gas sucking, money pit"

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 18:30:06 -0300
Subject: Re: What happened to all the wagons?

I checked Dennis C's "Cars of Oldsmobile" book for the answer on this. 
The full size Olds wagon was produced in '64 under the Dynamic 88 Fiesta 
label, then disappeared from '65 to '70. In '71 they introduced the 
Custom Cruiser series based on the big-car line on a 127-inch wheelbase, 
which had the disappearing "clamshell" tailgate Andy referred to earlier.

In the years '65 to '70 the Vista Cruiser and F-85/Cutlass wagons carried 
the Olds flag in the station wagon wars. Not all wagons in those years 
were Vistas, as they made a non-domed roof version as well. 

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 18:35:16 -0300
Subject: Re: What is going on? 

Subj:	Re: What is going on
Date:	05/01/96
To:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca

In a message dated 96-05-01 13:20:47 EDT, you write:

>I thought we were supposed to talk Oldsmobiles here, what is going on?

Chris,

I see nothing wrong with this disscussion. Without gas you can't drive your
Oldsmobile!

I'll go one step further, beyond the $ of gas, try getting GOOD gas,
especially when they are adding MTBE in the gas here in Milwaukee!!!!
Although, they are swtiching to thier "supposed" summer blend.  Yeah, right!
 

Premium (MTBE) $1.49 here.  Only 93 octane too...):

Greg K

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 19:54:45 -0300
Subject: Re: junkyard distributors 

Pat,
It will probably work fine, but from my experience, you should check the 
wear on the end of the distributor shaft.  The motor is *still* in the car 
in the junk yard for a reason, right?  Take an 1/8" punch and hammer along 
to drive out the pin.  Pull the shaft out of the body and check for wear to 
the shaft and bushing.  You might need some carb cleaner on the shaft to 
bust up the varnish.  Keep looking if it has a lot of wear - I think this 
is from running low on oil.

I think a quick way to eliminate a donor without pulling the strib is to 
check the level on dip stick.  Low - keep looking.

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    "Oldsmobile - powerful roadsters with big V8s"
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu

- --------------
 This may be a stupid question, but what is the likely-hood of a person
being able to buy a 76-77 HEI out of a junkyard and have the thing work fine?
It just seems to me that an electronic device that is almost 20 years old
should be in need of repair or replacement. Any thoughts you guys?

------------------------------

From: urbanch@magi.com (Chris Urban)
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 19:00:24 -0300
Subject: Re: What is going on 

>
>> I thought we were supposed to talk Oldsmobiles here, what is going on?
>
>What are you talking about?  Everything here in some way at least 
>tangentially relates to our favorite pastime . . . :)
>
Well I was thinking these topics shouldn't tangentially relate they should
be specifically about Oldsmobiles.
>
>

------------------------------

From: urbanch@magi.com (Chris Urban)
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 19:00:20 -0300
Subject: Re: What is going on 

Well I wasn't talking about just the gas, it seems the last little while
everything from computers to to it seems like daily diary's have been posted. 

>In a message dated 96-05-01 13:20:47 EDT, you write:
>
>>I thought we were supposed to talk Oldsmobiles here, what is going on?
>
>Chris,
>
>I see nothing wrong with this disscussion. Without gas you can't drive your
>Oldsmobile!
>
>I'll go one step further, beyond the $ of gas, try getting GOOD gas,
>especially when they are adding MTBE in the gas here in Milwaukee!!!!
>Although, they are swtiching to thier "supposed" summer blend.  Yeah, right!
> 
>
>Premium (MTBE) $1.49 here.  Only 93 octane too...):
>
>Greg K
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 19:25:50 -0300
Subject: Re: Misc Stuffs 

In a message dated 96-05-01 15:05:19 EDT, you write:

>Good God! I had NO IDEA that was from a Manual trans Cadillac Toro! Greg,
you
>owe me about $500 more for something that rare! I bet it was a 4-door
*manual
>trans* Cadillac Toro, too! :) :) :) I kill me! -Chris-
>
>

Chris,

I did some research. That carb #7027131 came off a 1967 Cadillac Eldorado
Torritz FWD Station Wagon with 3 on the tree...VERY rare indeed. They only
made one as a prototype. I understand some guy in California is restoring it
and is offering $2000 for the correct (one of a kind) carb, which Gregg now
has (which WAS yours!)  LOL

Ya never know what you may be giving away, do you!

Greg (T-Toro)

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 19:22:18 -0300
Subject: Re: Carb number decoding 

Dave:

I have a copy of the AC-Delco fuel systems books.  They total about 10 inches
thick of information including the carb numbers for every carb installed on
GM cars.

I'll take a look at what the numbers you supplied check with the AC-Delco
books.  I would hope they are at least as correct as Year One.

Bob

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 12:12:19 -0300
Subject: Re: junkyard distributors 

     Nah, I doubt you'll have any problem.  Theoretically the unit is 
     solid-state and has no moving parts, therefore nothing to ever break, 
     right?
     
     I've owned four HEI cars (most clunkers with well over 100k miles) 
     over the last 10 years, my fiance has had two, and my dad has had two. 
      I haven't had to replace the HEI unit or coil in any of them, ever.  
     Just the standard new caps/rotors, and one unit had the centrifugal 
     advance weights frozen with rust, and one needed a new vacuum advance 
     once.  I'd call them very reliable.
     
     I don't think the replacement units are that expensive anyways, maybe 
     $10?  Only problem is that I have heard that when they fail, it's 
     usually totally and without warning.

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: junkyard distributors
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    5/1/96 2:42 PM


 This may be a stupid question, but what is the likely-hood of a person
being able to buy a 76-77 HEI out of a junkyard and have the thing work fine? 
It just seems to me that an electronic device that is almost 20 years old 
should be in need of repair or replacement. Any thoughts you guys?

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 19:33:48 -0300
Subject: Re: What is going on 

In a message dated 96-05-01 18:16:29 EDT, you write:

>Well I wasn't talking about just the gas, it seems the last little while
>everything from computers to to it seems like daily diary's have been
posted.
>
>
>

Chris,

I sorta half agree with you there, although some of it was interesting
reading.

Greg K 

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 20:05:50 -0300
Subject: Torollac Carb! 

Subj:	Re: Misc Stuffs
Date:	05/01/96
To:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca

In a message dated 96-05-01 15:05:19 EDT, you write:

>Good God! I had NO IDEA that was from a Manual trans Cadillac Toro! Greg,
you
>owe me about $500 more for something that rare! I bet it was a 4-door
*manual
>trans* Cadillac Toro, too! :) :) :) I kill me! -Chris-
>
>

Chris,

I did some research. That carb #7027131 came off a 1967 Cadillac Eldorado
Torritz FWD Station Wagon with 3 on the tree...VERY rare indeed. They only
made one as a prototype. I understand some guy in California is restoring it
and is offering $2000 for the correct (one of a kind) carb, which Gregg now
has (which WAS yours!)  LOL

Ya never know what you may be giving away, do you!

Greg (T-Toro)

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 20:42:11 -0300
Subject: Re: junkyard distributors 

There should be no reason for an HEI to wear in one direction or another.
 There is no "pressure" on the shaft from a points set.  Even if there is
wear such that a wobble exists, it probably won't effect much as long as the
magnets can activate the module.  With a points distributor, wobble can
change dwell and timing by changing the relationship of when the points
close.

I got my HEI for $35 with a guarantee.  If it don't work, pull another.

Many HEIs in the yard I was looking in had no modules.  Everyone else took a
spare so why not you?

You can replace all the electrical components in an HEI for about $15 each:

     Module
     Ignition coil (in the cap)
     Pickup coil (under the module/advance plate.

As I've opined before, why pay $200 for an aftermarket when you get one the
best high output ignitions on the planet for peanuts and if a failure occurs,
repair parts at any auto parts chain? 

Both my cars have been converted to HEI.  I carry one extra of each
electrical component just in case.

Bob Handren
'67 442 W-30 Modified
'70 Cutlass SX Convetible

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 20:42:17 -0300
Subject: Rochester Carb ID's 

According to my AC-Delco Rochester references the 7027131 carb is for a '67
Toronado.  
Dave Paulison's carb number 7028273 is probably worth a few bucks.

It goes to a '68 Firebird V-8 manual trans with Ram Air 400 engine!

The references I used are an AC-Delco set of service documents covering
everything built by Rochester used by GM and other manufacturers, including
marine applications.  It covers everything up to port fuel injections systems
from the '60 through the 80's.  In addition to all the info on numbers, etc.,
it also contains a bunch of fantastic information on how each system works
including the electronic Q-jets.  You guys into the +/- early 80's cars
probably NEED this information. It appears to be the same texts used in GM
training courses.  

The entire set is just plain neat.  It's overal size fills three 3-ring
3-inch binders to bursting - no exageration. They contain complete rebuild
instructions, part numbers for all parts, cross references to newer part
numbers, discontinued numbers, etc., etc.

The part number to order from AC-Delco is "09XC, 9X Rochester Carb Parts and
Service."  The address I have is AC-Delco, 35,000 Industrial Road, Livonia,
MI 48150-1250.  No phone number.  I got mine almost exactly 1 year ago.  The
cost you are asking?  How about $15.  That's no typo, that's what I paid -
$15 which also included one year of updates (none came).  For ~$30 you can
get the AC-Delco binders as well. I passed although they are probably a deal
as well. Maybe one of you guys on the list local to Livonia can get more
info. It is hard to beat since it is such a wealth of quality information and
so cheap.

I learned about it from a series of letters in Camaro Craft magazine (Car
Craft for those who don't know the less than positive although accurate
alternative reference).  I am pretty sure if you write AC-Delco a letter
requesting the correct order form to obtain 09XC they will send it to you -
they did to me.  According to one of the letters in C.C., AC-Delco has many,
many copies.  It seems one of the carb rebuild shops started a rumor that it
was no longer available. I wonder why they would want to start a rumor like
that? ;-)

To my surprise, the rebuilt carb I bought for my '67 some time back actually
has the correct p/n for the car!  I didn't realize that until I looked it up
in the AC-Delco books.

If some of you would like me to look up a number or two for you I'll oblige
provided it doesn't add too much time to the amount I already spend each day
reading and commenting.  I'll do what I can as time allows. You don't know
what piece of gold might be in your collection of old Q-jets.  If you have
any 2 barrel Rochesters you may be hiding that '66 tripower center (or end)
carb in the pile.

Bob Handren
'67 W-30 Modified
'70 Cutlass SX Convertible

------------------------------

From: jblair@nhr.com (John T. Blair)
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 21:29:33 -0300
Subject: Re: 66 Toronado pitman arm 

>Can anyone help with NOS or replacement for this "66 only" part??
>I replaced mine with a used one from California about a year ago, and now 
>that one is gone...
>
>Interestingly, my original and the one from Calif. 
>are not the same in appearance, although identical in critical 
>dimensions. One has a casting #? part #? of 5699212, while the heavier 
>one has the no. 7805 816.  Any info from this?
>
>Here, I find that TRW lists a 67-76 pitman arm at $140, 
>BUT will it fit? No-one knows, few care.
>
>Anyone with experience or information about how to replace - even 
>rebuild? - this troublesome part?  Any how are we on idler arms?  I'll 
>bet that's next....
>
>Thanks for looking at this, and your help might keep my car on the road 
>(in a straight line)
Michael, 

    I have an excellent used arm from my '67. Let me check the part number for you and get back to you. I replaced mine when I thought it was going. It wasn't. It was the steering box adjustment.

Jim Chermack (804)474-0869



John T. Blair  WA4OHZ          email:  jblair@nhr.com
Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (804) 495-8229

48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget  65 Morgan 4/4 Series V
     75 Bricklin SV1   77 Spitfire

The one with the most toys, wins!

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 22:13:41 -0300
Subject: Re: What happened to all the wagons? 

In a message dated 96-05-01 17:43:56 EDT, you write:

>In the years '65 to '70 the Vista Cruiser and F-85/Cutlass wagons carried 
>the Olds flag in the station wagon wars. Not all wagons in those years 
>were Vistas, as they made a non-domed roof version as well. 

Did you know that the Vista had a longer wheelbase than the "standard"
Cutlass wagon?   Rear doors from a Vista are too large (long) to fit a
standard wagon.

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 22:13:43 -0300
Subject: A/C Conversion 

Came across an ad in Hemmings the other night for conversion plates to change
your Non-A/C car to A/C (or vice-versa, or heater delete).  Have any of you
had experience with converting a car to A/C using a parts car.  This is
something I've been wanting to do for about the last 5 years, but I'm afraid
of messing with the firewall.  So far I've installed the compressor (moved
the alternator), condenser, fan & shroud and installed an A/C water pump
(needed a new one anyway, this is what started the whole thing).  Don't want
to do any of the under dash stuff until the evaporator is installed, but I
just can't bring myself to have it done.  Comments?  Suggestion?  I use this
car about 50 miles a day for work.  Even though it's a convertible, the air
would be nice on those really hot days in July & August.  Swapping the car
for one w/AC isn't an option for me.  I'm the 2nd owner (7 years) and know
this car inside & out.  Won't take my chances on another man's junk.  Whatcha
think?

Paul

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 23:12:07 -0300
Subject: Gas Money 

well, wher in the hell are the tax dollars going?...here in PA there is a
big problem...i'll warn the rest of you so you dont move here...in PA you
only have to use the oxygenated gasoline in the couties of Philadelphia and
Pittsburg...and the counties surrounding them...well, in these areas you
must also have emmissions testing, all other counties you dont need the
gasoline or the emmisions...and the gas in the "clean" areas is about 10-20
cents higher than all other areas
                         Zack
      ___
     /. .\
    _\_*_/_                     -<Buddha>-
   / /   \ \                   Buddha@itw.com
   \_\___/_/            HTTP://www2.itw.com/~buddha/
  /___\_/___\ "That which does not kill us makes us stronger"
 *************

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 23:13:01 -0300
Subject: Re: Can anyone recommend good wheel locks? 

At 12.24 05,01,96 -0300, you wrote:
>Hey Oldsmofriends,
>
>	Can anyone suggest some good wheel locks besides McGard.  My opinion is
>
>since the recessed pattern on the lug nuts is only like 1/4" deep, the 1/4"
>
>raised section on the key will break off at the most inopportune moment.
>
>I've looked at both local auto parts store and the J.C. Whitney catalog with no
>
>luck.  Any suggestions?
>
>
>Thanx
>
>Meyer
>'91 Quad442 W-41 (190 hp/138 cubic in, normally aspirated)
>


get gorilla nuts...they are some of the best
                    zack
      ___
     /. .\
    _\_*_/_                     -<Buddha>-
   / /   \ \                   Buddha@itw.com
   \_\___/_/            HTTP://www2.itw.com/~buddha/
  /___\_/___\ "That which does not kill us makes us stronger"
 *************

------------------------------

From: jblair@nhr.com (John T. Blair)
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 23:15:26 -0300
Subject: pitman arm 

Michael,

Can anyone help with NOS or replacement for this "66 only" part??
>I replaced mine with a used one from California about a year ago, and now 
>that one is gone...
>
>Interestingly, my original and the one from Calif. 
>are not the same in appearance, although identical in critical 
>dimensions. One has a casting #? part #? of 5699212, while the 
>heavier one has the no. 7805 816.  Any info from this?
>
>Here, I find that TRW lists a 67-76 pitman arm at $140, 
>BUT will it fit? No-one knows, few care.
>
I dug the orig on out.  It's part # is the same as yours: 5699212
I'll take $35 for it.  I got a TRW one for about $90, TRW K5210


Jim Chermack (804)474-0869

C/O

John T. Blair  WA4OHZ          email:  jblair@nhr.com
Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (804) 495-8229

48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget  65 Morgan 4/4 Series V
     75 Bricklin SV1   77 Spitfire

The one with the most toys, wins!

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 23:17:50 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Gas money 

At 16.21 05,01,96 -0300, you wrote:
>> Gas in the cities (we're cities, not burbs) 40 miles west of Chicago
>> is 1.35 to 1.40 for the cheap stuff.  Premium is 1.55+.  Has been
>> jumping up over the last 3 weeks.
> 
>Not meaning to through gas on the fire (sorry, had to do it), but I 
>saw premium unleaded this AM at $1.65 a gallon here aroung D.C.
>
>Sure makes me glad my 442-lite gets 30+mpg!
>

at 85 mph, i get around 45-50 mpg...but around 55 i get 25-30 mpg...this is
in a 91 Ch*vy S-10 with a 200 hp 4.3l V6
and my 0-60 times are 6.9, they'll get better with my new Hurst shifter
                    Zack

>Mike
>'91 W-40 Quad442 (The fuel sipper w/180+ bhp)
>
>
      ___
     /. .\
    _\_*_/_                     -<Buddha>-
   / /   \ \                   Buddha@itw.com
   \_\___/_/            HTTP://www2.itw.com/~buddha/
  /___\_/___\ "That which does not kill us makes us stronger"
 *************

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 23:33:15 -0300
Subject: Food for thought.... 

OK, here are some interesting questions for you guys...   Now that I have
both my summer cars out of storage, I can't even think straight.

1.  350 heads on 403:  I have been toying with the idea of putting 7a
(subscript A) heads on my 77 403.  I purchased a set, and right now they are
being tanked and pressure tested at a local machine shop.  I know that I have
to increase the size of the head bolt holes and pilot holes, and increase the
size of the intake valve to 2".  I will also increase my compression from
approx. 8.0:1 to 9.0:1.   I am only running an Edelbrock Performer cam and
would probably wind up doing some porting and polishing along with filling
the heat riser's.   So will this change make a big difference?

2.  Lifter Preload:  Can anybody send me some directions on how to adjust the
lifter preload on my 403 (in the car...)  I think I have a valve hanging up
(not fully closing) and would like to adjust the valve train using the shim
stock (in .010 increments) that was mentioned earlier.  I understand that you
have to shim both the intake and exhaust, but it is much cheaper than
Mondello's goodies...

3.  Spark plug heat ranges:   I just installed a Crane Hi-6 ingition box
along with a PS 92 coil.  After inspecting the cap and rotor after 100 miles
or so, the carbon brush has melted right through the cap  (actually two
quality caps).   So here is some thought on why the intense heat:  first of
all, it would seem that there is excessive resistance somewhere in the
ignition.   The wires are fine, with about 300 to 600 ohms per foot (roughly
1kohm per wire) .  I am using a Mallory cap-adapt for using an external coil
with an HEI distrib.  So there are two things left, the carbon wire brush and
the spark plugs.  I know the carbon brush has alot of resistance, and the
tech at Crane also said that was 90% of my problem.  So I ordered an Accel
low resistance brush and am going to try that.  If that fails, I am going to
make one out of copper and suffer with the noise in the radio.  But on to the
spark plugs:  I'm sure most of you now that Olds engines tend to have large
spark plug gaps, .060 for my 77 403.  In theory, this is good, because the
larger the initial kernel, the better the combustion (accoring to Jacob's
book 'The Theory on Ignition")  But in all reality, that is a lot of added
resistance (air!) and Crane recomends a .045 gap with there ignition.  The
Crane tech also said that there research has not shown a benefit to running
over a .045 gap.  So on to the real question:  I currently run Autolite 847's
(heat range 7) with a .060 gap.  Since the plugs are "roughly" gapped from
the factory for there application,  to change them from .060 to .045 would
cause the center electrode and ground strap not to be parallel (which should
be avoided). To re-bend the ground strap would work but seems like alot of
work that might not be so easy or beneficial.   But if you look at an
Autolite 86 which is exactly one heat range colder (heat range 6), they are
gapped at .035.  So to move them to .045 still keeps the center electrode and
ground strap parallel.  But will the colder plug (which is stock for my 73
350), cause any problems or loss or perfomance?  The car is street and strip
driven and I don't think it will cause a problem, but I would like some
input.  Sorry for all the background, but hopefully it will help.

4.  Mondello's tech manual:  I called Mondello's today and they said that the
manual is at the printer's and they should have it next week.  I know that
everybody here is not to fond of Joe, (including me), but let's face it, his
book would be a welcome addition to any of our libraries.  I am anxious to
see it, especially the serial numbers for the solid web 403's.  Oh, and
believe it or not, I talked to Joe about a technical question today
(Wednsday!  not Tuesday or Thursday between 2:00 and 5:00!!!!)  It was sort
of by accident, but he helped me out.

5.  Thanks for taking the time to read this!  I appreciate any help you guys
put forth...  Tom Millard  OLDSPWR@aol.com

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 00:02:51 -0300
Subject: Removing dents from chrome bumper 

Hi all,

I have a few dings and dimples in my 66Toro rear bumber. The chrome is near
perfect and is not in need of re-plating. Has anyone had any experience with
having these pounded out. I would imagine you have to go to a place with the
correct dies/stamps and dogs to do a good job?

Thanks in advance,

Greg Kalkhoff

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 19:10:04 -0300
Subject: Re: Carb number decoding

Toronado66@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Dave,
> 
> Thanks for taking the time to post the information on Q-Jets. I have printed
> your mail and will post it in the shop.
> 
> It sometimes seems that things don't make sense with car production. From the
> stories I hear, many a change was made right on the production line during
> assembly which was not always documented or reflected in a product release.
> Ergo, we go around trying to split hairs (so to speak) about why the numbers
> don't match up! Take the case where the tansmission plant burned down and
> Cadillac gearboxes were showing up in Oldsmobiles, Buicks etc, in the the
> late 30's early 40's! Then came the war and everything was goofy! I can
> re-research this story if anyone is interested........I may even write an
> article for the JWO with regard to this issue.
> 
> Anyway, thanks again......
> 
> Greg K

Greg:

I believe that was 1954 when the Hydramatic plant burned and the big 
cars got Dynaflows.  I hope that I never own one of those cars.  Can you 
imagine a Super 88 with a Dynaflow?

Bill

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 19:30:45 -0300
Subject: Re: Gas money 

Andrew C. Green wrote:
> 
> >Any one getting a little uncomfortable about these gas prices?  How do
> >you think it will affect the value of the older Olds's?
> 
> I don't know that it will. People don't buy these things on the basis
> of gas mileage or lack of same. Thank God.  :-)
> 
> >What is the price for premium where you live?
> 
>We get to pay $1.20 for regular to $1.37 for 92 Octane in North Alabama.  I'll be goint to Ashville, NC Friday and will then get an 
education on what the North is paying.

Bill 
Alabama

------------------------------

From: Bob Valentine <ravalent@liii.com>
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 00:30:32 -0300
Subject: Re: junkyard distributors

On Wed, 1 May 1996, Pat Clark 952-3776 wrote:

> 	This may be a stupid question, but what is the likely-hood of a person
> being able to buy a 76-77 HEI out of a junkyard and have the thing work fine?
> It just seems to me that an electronic device that is almost 20 years old
> should be in need of repair or replacement. Any thoughts you guys?

     I'd say you'll probably yank it out and it will work just fine.  
I've only gotten one bad HEI (out of the 100's I handled when I worked in 
a salvage yard) and it was a Chevy, no less.

     The biggest problem with HEI's is wear on the weight pins.   Just 
pop the cap off and check the posts and that the weights aren't frozen 
solid with rust.   Keep in mind you can check it right on the ground; 
just run +12 to the B term, ground the body and hook up a plug.  Spin and 
if it sparks it's good.

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                    --> ravalent@liii.com  <--
        "Experience varies directly with equipment ruined"

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 19:33:45 -0300
Subject: Re: Gas money 

Doug McClanahan wrote:
> 
> Any one getting a little uncomfortable about these gas prices?  How do
> you think it will affect the value of the older Olds's?  What is the
> price for premium where you live?


Doug:

I would expect to see a problem with demand on all high-gas consumption 
cars.  It should fuel the legislatures to further restrict them also.  
Nothing good can come of this except money from my pocket.

Bill

------------------------------

From: z28cfi <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 01:01:58 -0300
Subject: Re: Can anyone recommend good wheel locks?

Wheel locks may slow a thief, but not stop them. A mester key can be 
bought that takes off just about any wheen lock. When all else fails I 
know that the thiefs around my area use big ole vice grips to break em loose.
I have McGard's on my car, so far so good....
Jason Labay
1988 Z/28
1975 H/O

On Wed, 1 May 1996, Meyer I. Stolberg wrote:

> Hey Oldsmofriends,
> 
> 	Can anyone suggest some good wheel locks besides McGard.  My opinion is
> 
> since the recessed pattern on the lug nuts is only like 1/4" deep, the 1/4"
> 
> raised section on the key will break off at the most inopportune moment.
> 
> I've looked at both local auto parts store and the J.C. Whitney catalog with no
> 
> luck.  Any suggestions?
> 
> 
> Thanx
> 
> Meyer
> '91 Quad442 W-41 (190 hp/138 cubic in, normally aspirated)
> 
> 

------------------------------

From: Bob Valentine <ravalent@liii.com>
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 01:03:47 -0300
Subject: Re: A/C Conversion

> Came across an ad in Hemmings the other night for conversion plates to change
> your Non-A/C car to A/C (or vice-versa, or heater delete).  Have any of you
> had experience with converting a car to A/C using a parts car.  This is

     Yep, and it's not always a cake walk...

> to do any of the under dash stuff until the evaporator is installed, but I
> just can't bring myself to have it done.  Comments?  Suggestion?  I use this

     This is the worst part of the job.   We did my friend's '66 Fury 
with a OEM setup from a parts car - took forever, and then had a 30 year 
old system that didn't work all that well.   

     We did the conversion on a '71 Malibu a year later - this time we 
used GM stuff under the hood from a donor car, but used a aftermarket 
under-dash unit we salavaged from another car.  While it doesn't look 
OEM, it works much better, and the install is MUCH easier.

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                    --> ravalent@liii.com  <--
        "Experience varies directly with equipment ruined"

------------------------------

From: Jeff Stanish <stanishj@svpal.org>
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 01:11:08 -0300
Subject: Re: AUGH! Cooling problems

I have a '79 H/O. When I replaced the original water pump with a stamped 
steel impeller water pump it ran about your 220.  I replaced that with an 
original type cast iron impeller pump and it must of knocked off 40 
degrees!!! So I'm a real stickler for the old style impellers, really had 
to shearch for one, guys at the parts store claim it shouldn't make a 
difference, but it did for ME!!! Are you sure your pump has never been 
changed??

On Mon, 29 Apr 1996 eda@dl.tc.faa.gov wrote:

> 
> This relates to my '84 Hurst/Olds.  Background first.  Last summer,
> cruising on the expressway, car overheats, towed to shop.  Cooling system checked, flushed, etc., no leaks, new thermostat installed.  Not sure of
> rating, but car seems to run a bit warm.  Winter comes, forget about it.  Weather gets warm again, notice on a couple long/hard runs, temp guage reading close to that 220 mark, hmmm.  Yesterday, driving around, got on it a bit went to store.  Come out of store, drive home. (couple miles)
> Park, uh-oh, what's all this steam?  Seems to be blowing out the cap.  Add a little to the overflow bottle, drive a couple miles to my brother's, let car cool, drive home.  More steam, antifreeze all over.
> 
> So, I'm thinking, new cap and thermostat?  Opinions?  Also, any of you 84 H/O guys know what temperature thermostat I should be running, and what cap?  Cap on there now is 15 lbs.  And does pushing the 220 line sound normal, in warm but not hot weather?  I'm not all that comfortable with it, but I don't know.
> 
> I'd appreciate any replies cc'd to email, as I'm on digest mode & I need to fix this tonight.
> 
> Ed Atlee			'77 Cutlass Supreme
> eda@dl.tc.faa.gov		'84 Hurst/Olds
> 	R O C K E T	P O W E R E D ! !
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

From: "Michael Allen" <The_Allen_Family_ID@msn.com>
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 01:04:29 -0300
Subject: FW: Gas money 

Gas around here (Southern CA) is $1.71.9 for premium.  Sucks!  Can't even fill 
up the H/O for 20 bucks any more

- ----------
From:  oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca on behalf of Dan Dale
Sent:  Wednesday, May 01, 1996 9:51 AM
To:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject:  RE: Gas money

>Any one getting a little uncomfortable about these gas prices?  How do 
>you think it will affect the value of the older Olds's?  What is the 
>price for premium where you live?

around here it ranges from 1.25 at the truck stop Conoco to 1.41 at the 
Exxon's
in the "rich" part of town.
I live in Jackson, Miss.



- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
$Daniel Dale  daleds@okra.millsaps.edu f-list since 2/95 http://www.millsaps.$
$edu/~daleds/index.html  cars: 1972 Cotner-Bevington Oldsmobile 98 Endloader,$
$1966 Pontiac GTO, 1973 Imperial LeBaron, 1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-X 5.7TPI$ 
 
$1955 Cadillac Seville, (2) 1969 Cadillac DeVille Convertibles(one for parts)$ 

$1976 Cadillac Series 75 Fleetwood Brougham, 1961 Imperial Custom            $
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: rmv@ix.netcom.com (rmv)
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 02:25:18 -0300
Subject: Re: Mysterious paper (broadcast sheet)

>> >    I found a pair of thoes under the rotting seat in my '60.  I 
>> >recognized a couple of the numbers from the vin and body tag, but 
most 
>> >I'd never seen before.  When I wrote the Olds History Center, I 
>> >included all that info, but unfortunatly they said they couldn't 
>> >decipher them :(  Not really sure who could.  Any ideas?
>> 
>> Maybe they are interior trim codes, similar to what is located on 
the 
>> fender tag.  Could you post the codes in question, along with the 
model 
>> and model year (1960).  I have an old Oldsmobile parts catalog (c. 
1961) 
>> that lists a lot of these codes.
>
>       Ok,I'll even make an attempt at ASCII here....
>
>
>                ---------------------------
>                | o 4-190-10-5          o |
>                | o    2989             o |
>                | o       837-71-604-642o |
>                | o                     o |
>                | o                     o |
>                |--------------------------|               
>
>                       And thats about how they look.  The 837 is body 

>style code (I think) and the 71 is a trim code.  The others I don't 
>know.  What do you think?

Linea 1-2: I can't tell, could be a sequence no., body no., build date.
           You might be able to identify by correlating with the body   
           tag under the hood.

Line 3:
  837: Car code (model) number
       98 Holiday Coupe
       Fisher Body Style code 60-3837

   71: Trim number (short for 371, dropping the "3")
       Dk. Gray Leather seat bolster,
       Med. Gray pattern cloth insert,
       Ivory morocceen accent, etc.

  604: I can't tell.

  642: I can't tell.

Mike Van Auken
'79 Starfire GT

------------------------------

From: Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 03:58:27 -0300
Subject: Re: Gas money 

>Any one getting a little uncomfortable about these gas prices?  How do 
>you think it will affect the value of the older Olds's?  What is the 
>price for premium where you live?


As I'm a political hack at the word go, a few tidbits about the "Gas 
Crisis" from a "Extremist Ultra Right-Wing Conservative Republican" as 
the liberal press defines guys like me today.

Is there anybody REALLY serious or concerned about the price of gasoline? 
These 20 to 30 cents is small change when you consider that over 50% of 
the price of a gallon of gas is TAXES... usually of several taxes 
(federal, state and local)that are levied against that gallon. 
Personally, I call my representatives in the House and the Senate at 
least a couple times a month to give them my take on the upcoming bills 
and to tell them how I would like them to vote as one of their 
constituents. Taxes are one of my hot topics when I talk to their aids. 
To me, if you are truly concerned about the price of gas you would be on 
the horn giving your views on where you think your tax dollars ought to 
go. If you are like me, the automatic answer is "It's my money, it was 
always my money, it isn't YOUR money, I want MY money in MY pocket, not 
YOURS, as I am the one who earned it in the first place." If it wasn't 
for the confiscatory practices of taxation, I wouldn't have to sell my 
car, and that pisses me off to no end! 

I have a personal philosophy that I use and I think, by and large, 
politicians use the same one:

IF YOU DON'T CONDEMN IT, YOU CONDONE IT!

Don't like taxes? Too bad, nobody calls Washington because people think 
they don't have a voice and politicians don't listen. Again, don't like 
taxes? Again, too bad, people don't call to bitch about it and people 
keep electing tax and spend liberal democrats back into office, until 
that stops, keep on expecting to pay and pay and pay...remember Clinton 
saying that when he signed the largest tax increase in history, he 
thought it was too big too? Do you think he meant it or was he just 
trying to tell you what you wanted to hear?

As an example, Clinton said yesterday in Florida, (campaigning on your 
tax dollars, I would like to add) that he was going to release 12 million 
barrels from the emergency oil reserve to "flood the market" and drive 
prices down. Dole, on the other hand, responded by saying "Lets repeal 
the federal gas tax" that didn't get much press but Clintons did... we 
wouldn't want to say that the press is biased heavily to the left now 
would we...

I am sure a lot of people felt real good about Clintons statement. 
Regardless of the fact that 12 million barrels is only enough to satisfy 
2/3rds of one day! The fact is that the Republican plan for the recently 
signed budget included this provision two weeks ago. So here goes Slick 
Willie stealing Republican issues once again. In fact, the intentfor the 
Republicans to sell the oil was to reduce the debt. Thank God for the 
Republicans as they trimmed 46 BILLION out of Clintons budget but it was 
524 BILLION too little in my opinion, I will take what I can get...

Any of you with children out there? The budget office, (the bipartisan 
one, the CBO) has shown with long range planning that in the year 2030, 
my son at age 32 will enjoy a 84% tax rate and a 4.5 TRILLION deficit 
EVERY year and will be climbing at an exponential rate. We owe 5 TRILLION 
now... that's $8000 dollars per second folks.

Anybody think your little boy or girl will be able to buy ANY Oldsmobile 
at a 84% tax rate?

The bigger question is: What are YOU going to do about it?


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Michael R. Hall                            Ortonville, Michigan
E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com
Owner: 1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
Owner: 1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...
Owner: 1994 GMC Sonoma Club Coupe SLS Pickup.
         Brought to you by a Apple Power Macintosh 7100/80
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

------------------------------

From: Mike Shokouhi <mvs@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 08:56:21 -0300
Subject: Re: Wanted: oilpan for '69 455

No luck at Year One.

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 09:18:47 -0300
Subject: Re: What happened to all the wagons? (was Re: Olds 10-bolt  axles) 

At 04:29 PM 5/1/96 -0300, you wrote:
>A>Nope, it's an A-body. Come to think of it, I've never seen a B or C-body Olds
>>wagon from the late-60's, and my '69 Service Manual doesn't list a wagon
>>available in those series. Did they stop making the big wagons for a period
>>there? I know that they made them in the mid-'70's (an old girlfriend's
>>parents had one; shoulda pulled that 455 before they towed it...:(
>
>Oh, let's see what I can remember here... (stares off into space over the
>top of his PC)
>
>As random data points, I can think of the following: In 1969, the biggest
>Pontiac wagon you could get was indeed the A-body LeMans/Tempest/Custom S
>series; our family bought one and I still have the catalog. But if you
>bought Ch*vy, you could get an Impala/Caprice wagon from their full-size
>battleship series. They made wagons out of their full-size line every year,
>in fact. I can't picture a full-size Olds wagon from the late '60's, but
>I remember the full-size 1973 Olds wagon owned by our neighbors. 


Olds did not make a full-sized wagon from 1965 to 1970.  In that time, the
largest wagon was the Vista Cruiser, built on the F-85 chassis.  In 1971,
Olds re-introduced a full-sized wagon, called the Custom Cruiser, based
on the full-sized chassis.  My dad bought new both '71 and a '73 Custom
Cruisers.  I learned to drive on the '73.



************************************************
Daniel A. Gulino
Associate Professor and Graduate Chairman
Department of Chemical Engineering
Ohio University
Athens, Ohio  45701-2979
(614) 593-1495
(614) 593-0873 (fax)
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://www.ent.ohiou.edu/che/faculty/gulino.html
************************************************

------------------------------

From: Susan Pitts <stp8n@virginia.edu>
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 09:19:42 -0300 
Subject: '70 olds question

I own a '70 olds convertible with the high output engine, bench seats, and
air conditioning which is unusual for this car.  I have always been told
that there were only 50 made like this for the Miss America pagent that year
in New Jersey.  I'm trying to get some confirmation about this.  It's gold
with a black top and seems to have been manufactured to endure the slow
pagent speeds.  Any confirmation or comments you have, please send.

P.S.  It was actually my father's olds, but that's what makes it even more
special!  Drove it to work today, beautiful weather upper 70's, top will be
down when I go to lunch!
A FELLOW OLDS LOVER --
'70 CUTLASS SUPREME CONVERTIBLE
'87 442 (My husband's car)

------------------------------

From: Doug Ahern <doug@cobra.cosmic.uga.edu>
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 10:10:06 -0300
Subject: Re: junkyard distributors

>       This may be a stupid question, but what is the likely-hood of a person
> being able to buy a 76-77 HEI out of a junkyard and have the thing work fine?
> It just seems to me that an electronic device that is almost 20 years old
> should be in need of repair or replacement. Any thoughts you guys?

your chances of finding a good unit are.. good!  As measures of insurance,
look for a car that has been wrecked, it was probably working fine until
the day it was wrecked up.  the only major thing to look for is a worn 
shaft, you can test for that, to some extent, manually with the unit in and 
out of the engine.


Doug Ahern      doug@cosmic.uga.edu  1964 F-85 Cutlass 
http://www.cosmic.uga.edu/doug.html  1969 Dart 
Sys Admin, COSMIC, Univ. of Georgia  1974 Satellite ex-cop car

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 10:06:46 -0300
Subject: Re: '70 olds question 

>I own a '70 olds convertible with the high output engine, bench seats, and
>air conditioning which is unusual for this car.  I have always been told
>that there were only 50 made like this for the Miss America pagent that year
>in New Jersey.  I'm trying to get some confirmation about this.

D'ohhh!!! I'm racking my brain trying to remember the details here: Cars &
Parts had a feature article not too long ago about somebody's restored car
which was also supposed to be one of 50 or so built for a parade of some
sort -- sounds like maybe the Miss America one. I have a gut feeling it was
a Cougar, though... Any other subscribers with better memories than me? I
still have the issue in the basement but it would take serious ransacking
to find it.

>It's gold
>with a black top and seems to have been manufactured to endure the slow
>pagent speeds.

How so? Low ratio gears and a heavy-duty cooling system? Reinforced boot
for people to sit on?  :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 10:18:11 -0300
Subject: Re: A/C Conversion 

>Comments?  Suggestion?  I use this
>car about 50 miles a day for work.  Even though it's a convertible, the air
>would be nice on those really hot days in July & August.

Um, a convertible _what_? You didn't mention...

Anyhow, mentally ticking off the things that would differ between an A/C
and non-A/C car:

- -- bigger cooling system: radiator, water pump (you mentioned)
- -- possible different heater core (different shape for different housing)
- -- engine wiring harness, to accommodate compressor clutch wiring, assorted
pressure switches (I'm not an A/C expert)
- -- front suspension: beefier springs, perhaps different anti-sway bar
- -- repositioned belt-driven components (e.g. alternator) to fit compressor
- -- higher-capacity alternator, come to think of it
- -- dashboard wiring harness, to HVAC controls
- -- HVAC control panel hardware and vacuum-operated servo motors and ducts
- -- dashboard vents (heck, just swap the whole dashboard :-)

This is just an overview and not all the above would need to be changed
necessarily, but should be considered.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: clark@sh28.dseg.ti.com (Pat Clark 952-3776)
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 11:30:22 -0300
Subject: Parade Ragtop

>D'ohhh!!! I'm racking my brain trying to remember the details here: Cars &
>Parts had a feature article not too long ago about somebody's restored car
>which was also supposed to be one of 50 or so built for a parade of some
>sort -- sounds like maybe the Miss America one. I have a gut feeling it was
>a Cougar, though... Any other subscribers with better memories than me? I
>still have the issue in the basement but it would take serious ransacking
>to find it.


It was a mustang convertible that was for a parade in Washington DC. (Cherry
Blossom Parade maybe?). Don't remember the article exactly but I think it
was a 71-73 model.



          ___              ___        _________
         /   |            /   |      /         \
        /    |           /    |     |   ___    |
       /     |          /     |     |__|   |   |
      /      |         /      |           /   /   
     /       |        /       |          /   /   
    /   /|   |       /   /|   |         /   /
   /   /_|   |__    /   /_|   |__      /   /
  |             |  |             |    /   /
  |______     __|  |______     __|   /   /_____
         |   |            |   |     |          |      Pat Clark
         |___|            |___|     |__________|       69 442
						      400/400

   "Just your average 300+hp garage hogging, gas sucking, money pit"

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 11:38:16 -0300
Subject: Re: '70 olds question

On Thu, 2 May 1996, Andrew C. Green wrote:
> D'ohhh!!! I'm racking my brain trying to remember the details here: Cars &
> Parts had a feature article not too long ago about somebody's restored car
> which was also supposed to be one of 50 or so built for a parade of some
> sort -- sounds like maybe the Miss America one. I have a gut feeling it was
> a Cougar, though... Any other subscribers with better memories than me? I
> still have the issue in the basement but it would take serious ransacking
> to find it.

The article featured a Mustang. Nuff said.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: "Schroedinger's Clint" <clint@digex.net>
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 11:58:00 -0300
Subject: A differnet A/C question

Hi everyone.  8^)

This Friday/Weekend I'll be removing the A/C from my '81 Cutlass.   Before
anyone tries to talk me out of it, I want you to know that I am pretty set
on this.   My parnets never had an A/C car when I was growing up, and I
rarely used the A/C in wither of my previous car.  Plus, the Cutlass A/C
only pukes out warm air.

SO basically I was wondering what I shoudl look out for.  Any tricks or
warnings from someone who has done this previously?

Thanks
Clint

                          _________
Rocket Boy!             _|_ _\\____|_     '81 Cutlass Supreme
clint@darklair.com       |___//____|      (G-body with F-pieces)

- ----------------------------------------------------------
 clint@digex.net          Clint        DIGEX Full Time IP  
 (301) 847-6225          Thompson          (301) 847-5156
 (410) 898-5252       Mon-Fri: 9a-5p       (410) 898-5156
- ----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: Susan Pitts <stp8n@virginia.edu>
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 12:07:29 -0300 
Subject: Re: '70 olds question

My husband or dad could better answer your question about the ratios & such.
I know that it has the 350 or 351 and Dave (husband) mentioned that larger
engine would provide more cooling, I think that's what he said?!  The story
goes that it was built in Michigan (which I confirmed from numbers); sent to
NJ for parade there and then driven in Shriner's parade in Norfolk; returned
to Murray Olds in Richmond Virginia where my dad purchased it the day it
came in....smart man!  Seems article was about Apple Blossom parade.  We
drove our car in the Tobacco parades when they actually called them that,
then it was politically correct to promote tobacco counties and their queens
in a parade...Last real parade was the Grand Illumination (off shoot of
Tobacco one) years ago.  I haven't participated in any others except one
high school parade.  Needs some minor rust repair and paint job before I'd
enter it again.
Susan Pitts, University of Virginia School of Law

------------------------------

From: "Schroedinger's Clint" <clint@digex.net>
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 12:20:27 -0300
Subject: Got my T-shirt

Woo Woo!!!!

Just got it in the mail today at work.  Looks GREAT!!!!!

I`m sure the rest of you who ordered will enjoy it as much as I do! 8^)

CLint

- ----------------------------------------------------------
 clint@digex.net          Clint        DIGEX Full Time IP  
 (301) 847-6225          Thompson          (301) 847-5156
 (410) 898-5252       Mon-Fri: 9a-5p       (410) 898-5156
- ----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 13:43:36 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: AUGH! Cooling problems 

Yeah, noticing that the stamped impeller is open at the timing cover side, 
I would suspect that the pressure and volume would not be as great as the 
cast impeller that has a backing disc for the "fins".  Car Craft showed how 
to rivet on a backing disc (from Summit - $5).  

I think you could make your own easily.  Use steel rivets (like, like 
material).  I don't think galvanized sheet metal would be the best choice 
because the galvanizing will flake off and clog radiator tubes (there's 
enough junk swimming around there anyways).

In a later issue they compared stock stamped, stock cast impeller pumps and 
an aftermarket swirl cast impeller pump.  The aftermarket was able to 
supply more consistant flow to each side of the block, and more overall 
flow than the stockers.  This was on a ch*vy sb.  I don't have the issue 
here, but could post the results on 5/13.

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    "Oldsmobile - powerful roadsters with big V8s"
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu

- -----------------------
I have a '79 H/O. When I replaced the original water pump with a stamped 
steel impeller water pump it ran about your 220.  I replaced that with an 
original type cast iron impeller pump and it must of knocked off 40 
degrees!!! So I'm a real stickler for the old style impellers, really had 
to shearch for one, guys at the parts store claim it shouldn't make a 
difference, but it did for ME!!! Are you sure your pump has never been 
changed??

------------------------------

From: John Schmich <schmich@AZStarNet.com>
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 13:32:38 -0300
Subject: Re: 307 

At 10:36 PM 4/29/96 -0300, you wrote:
>was there an Olds 307 V8 offered with TBI?  just asking
>                    zack
>      ___
>     /. .\
>    _\_*_/_                     -<Buddha>-
>   / /   \ \                   Buddha@itw.com
>   \_\___/_/            HTTP://www2.itw.com/~buddha/
>  /___\_/___\ "That which does not kill us makes us stronger"
> *************
>
>
>     No, I don't think so.  But I always wondered if the Toronado in 90(?)
with the 307 V8 had a fuel injection system of some sort, TPI?  If so, that
would be a great project.  Hey, maybe even for your Olds truck.  Now you
would have everything.  
     Speaking of your Olds truck project, I was looking through some old
Sport Truck magazine in search of a article I once saw about a guy doing
exactly what you are.  In actuallity, it wasn't a feature article but it was
a Reader's Ride section.  It doesn't tell a whole lot but it does show a
picture of the S-10 with the Bravada clip on it.  Looks smooth because its
different.  It is the March 1992 SPORT TRUCK.  Page 96.
     Here is what it says:

     OLDS-10
     Here's a really neat idea that never occurred to us: Put an Olds
Bravada grille on a an S-truck.  Jeff Bundy of St. Joseph, Michigan,
performed this subtle custom trick on his 89 S-10, and he also installed a
Bushwaker front spoiler and a Bell Tech rolled pan.  A Craftec tailgate
smoothie panel cleans up the rear.  And a Firebird spoiler on a homemade
hard tonneau cover.  Its also dropped and has a watersplashing paint job.

     Good Luck.

Brandon

------------------------------

From: John Schmich <schmich@AZStarNet.com>
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 13:32:41 -0300
Subject: Re: Computer Blues 

At 08:42 PM 4/30/96 -0300, you wrote:
>
>     
>
>     Brandon,
>     
>     I had some ideas spring to mind regarding your computer/cam problem, 
>     and I thought I might toss 'em out here for the group to chew on.
>     
>     First, you asked for the '84 H/O cam specs.  I have a drawing of the 
>     cam profile, and if I'm reading it correctly, the cam is 262 intake, 
>     274 degrees exhaust.  .424 lift on both.

     Thanks.  Just before I read your letter here, the lady from my local
auto parts store gave me the specs:  

VIN 9  262 duration 274 exhaust, .440 lift on both, .275 but can't remeber
what this was. 
Execpt 9  250 duration (?) exhaust, .400 intake .401exhaust, .250      ''

     Similar.  I can't remeber what you told me before, but do you have a Y
or 9 VIN code? 

>     What if you tried switching to variable duration lifters, like Rhoads 
>     lifters?
>     
>     Perhaps your engine is running terrible because you're still using the 
>     '85 (roller cam) computer with the '84 (non roller) engine.  You might 
>     need to swap computers.  Just swapping the chips might work too.  If 
>     you can pull an '84 chip out of a junkyard somewhere for cheap, it 
>     might be worth a try.  If you were in the neighborhood, I'd let you 
>     try the chip from my '84 H/O (which is out of the car now because I'm 
>     using a Hypertech chip).

     I appreciate that, and believe me, if it wasn't finals week and I had a
trailer at my fingertips, I'd be up there Sat. morning and take you up on
your offer.  Thanks.  Well, yesterday I went to a few yards and looked
around but it seems that my chances of finding a H.O. computer in a junkyard
is like the chances of finding an Olds engine in a Ch*vy.  Today, I'm going
to the Olds dealer and going to spend $68 on a H.O. chip hoping to cure the
problem.  I don't really want to do this but I'm affraid that if I don't try
and take the engine apart that it would have worked.  This is my last option
and I hope it works, because I don't want to lose my Cutlass for another
month or two.  Wish me luck.

Brandon
"Computer vs. Man:  The Final Round"
>     
>     Anyways, it's late. . .  I just had to get this down in writing before 
>     I forgot.
>     
>     Tom.
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: ggreen@ftn.net (Gary Green)
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 00:31:00 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: JUST STARTED 

>Have you ever been to Quaker Steak and Lube in Sharon Pa?  It's a 
>Bar that has  cars all over the place, most hanging 
>upside down from the cieling.  

Dink:
Where is Sharon, Pa.  I do the Hershey thing in Oct (driving south on 81).
If it is anywhere in the vicinity, I will make it a point to visit.

Gary Green

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #164
********************************

