
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

oldsmobile-digest           Friday, 8 March 1996        Volume 01 : Number 112


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Alex Holland" <hollanda@cia.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 00:00:44 -0400
Subject: Re: re;handling for a bodies

Date:          Wed, 6 Mar 1996 23:12:55 -0400
To:            oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
From:          jrjet@whidbey.net (Dot & Tim McChesney)
Subject:       re;(no subject)
Reply-to:      oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca

Doug wrote:asking about suspension up grades for early A bodies. I have a
71 cutlass with the F body spindles and the tubular a arms. The kit I used
wasa from Global West suspension in Ontario Ca. (714)923-6180 . The kit
changed the feel of the car, the beast dosnt roll as much in the corners, I
have yet to buy the sway bars for the front and rear but have put konis on
the front huge differance in handling. Doug dont know where in Washington
you are but if close to seattle might be able to meet and you could see the
set up on a car I live on Whidbey Island.
                      Tim 71convert

As a side note, I used the 1.25" sway bar off of a 74-75 trans-am and
this worked really well.  Its cheap from the wreckers.  The only odd
things I did is added polyurethane end links and U-clamps.  This bar
required the use of longer end-link kits.  I just went through a
bunch of kits after installation of the sway bar and settled on some
chrysler end kits.  All it really needs is longer bolts.  This mod
also stressed the original bolt holes which let loose at 100mph in
the corners.  After changing my underwear, I bolted right through the
frame with nuts on the inside of the frame so they could'nt pull
through.  After that I never looked back. Great Handling.  72 cutlass
mod

------------------------------

From: "Alex Holland" <hollanda@cia.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 00:11:16 -0400
Subject: Re: SOME HEAD INFO PLEASE

Date:          Wed, 6 Mar 1996 10:12:54 -0400
To:            oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
From:          proietto@dow.on.doe.ca (Proietto, F.)
Subject:       SOME HEAD INFO PLEASE
Reply-to:      oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca


Ok guys/gals I know we've had this discussion before so a breif blurp would
suffice for a response.

There's a '71 455 engine I'm currently looking at and the engine sports J
heads. A little info on J's would be appreciated. If I buy this engine am I
going to have to change the heads in order to get better performance or can
the J's be worked with little effort and $$. Or should I just forget the J's
and try and pick up a pair of G's or E's.





Regards
Fernando Proietto
The J head is a 82cc head where the E is a 77cc head.  You might see
a 0.3 increase in compression ratio but there is some margin for
factory error so heads may be +/- 2cc from this figure.  I would'nt
sweat which head so much as making sure its set up well.  If you feel
gutsie, cut out the egr bumps in the exhaust passages with a carbide
cutter and generally clean up the rough castings.  Don't bother
polishing as that wo'nt do anything.  Mondello should have a tech
manual out in a month or so which should explain how to clean up
these heads.  You might look for a W,X,Z exhaust castings to give a
little better exhaust flow as they are a factorycast header.  They
are as easy to install as a regular header and in my region they go
for about $75.00 U.S. dollars.  I've bought two sets in the last
couple of months.     72 Cutlass

------------------------------

From: Tony <3CQ9DELBALSO@vms.csd.mu.edu>
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 00:52:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Small Block Camshaft

Chris,
I was told the camshafts I am contemplating work better with a higher stall
speed converter.  I think that this means while the engine is idling, the
torque converter won't transfer motion to the tranny until the engine rpms
rise up.  I also heard that this will result in lower mpg and decreased part
throttle response.  I would like to hear from people who use these converters.
 I am looking at a very mild street converter, only 500-800 rpm over stock.
What type of difference in mpg should I expect?  Also, what changes as far as
drivebility is concerned will result?  Thanks Tony

>When you run a camshaft that requires a higher stall you have to keep in
mind that this only really comes into play if you have traction, otherwise
the cars tires will breal loose and then obviously the engine is in its
powerband. Its also nice to hear about someone taking the time to set their
timing properly as I mentioned here not long ago and see that there is a
significant difference to be had by doing so.
>
>Your chioce of 500-800 over stock stall I think will make it work better. I
>have to advance my timing close to 13-14 degrees at 1100 rpm inorder to make
>the tires break lose at stand still, but I have other carb problems I need
>to deal with as well.
>
>One thing that made a very big improvement in break horse power was the
>re-curve kit from accell. I switched the ingnition to an HEI and added a
>re-curve kit . I put the lightest springs in and the car feels completely
>different, for the better. The torque is has increased quite noticeably and
>the shift kit works better.
>
>Regards
>Fernando Proietto
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 06:13:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Head for sale

What kind of harmonic balancer is that?

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 06:17:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Rebuilding the 66

Do a modern day "Hairy Olds"  two blown toronado 425's with toro
transaxles.  Might not be the fastest thing around but definitely the
smokiest peelouts.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 08:04:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Valve lift on my 403; and standards for shop man. specs.

>Does anyone know the valve lift from the stock cam on a '78 403?  Where would
>that information be available?

     	I've got an old cam from a '78 403; came from a Trans Am.  If I 
can
dig it up again, I could probably get some measurements from it, if it would
answer your questions.
                   |
           ________|________
          {        |        } Charley Buehner
          {        |        } "Rockit 1"
          {        |        } buehner@cis.nmclites.edu
          {        |        } http://www.nmclites.edu/~buehner
          {        |        }
          {        |        }
          {        |        }
          {        |        }
          {       /|\       }   "There's no replacement
          {     /  |  \     }        for displacement..."
          {   /    |    \   }
          { /      |      \ }
          {       ]|[       }
          {       ]|[       }
          {       ]^[       }
          {       ]^[       }
          """"""""]^[""""""""
                   ^
                   ^

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 08:04:00 -0400
Subject: Re: 83-84 H/O fuel pump

>     I'm not sure, but I think open loop vs. closed loop would refer to the
>     computer controls.  Open loop just pumps all the time and the carb
>     uses it as needed.  In closed loop the computer would take over the
>     fuel delivery, but I don't know how.  Possibly with a pressure
>     regulator?

     I've never seen a GM Computer Command Control system that modified fuel
~supply~ before EFI.  The only thing I could infer by that is that the CCC
("Clicker") carb can handle a higher fuel delivery rate with the active
mixture control.  It doesn't make much sense, since the float / needle and
seat assemblies are the same, but that's my 2 cent's worth...
                   |
           ________|________
          {        |        } Charley Buehner
          {        |        } "Rockit 1"
          {        |        } buehner@cis.nmclites.edu
          {        |        } http://www.nmclites.edu/~buehner
          {        |        }
          {        |        }
          {        |        }
          {        |        }
          {       /|\       }   "There's no replacement
          {     /  |  \     }        for displacement..."
          {   /    |    \   }
          { /      |      \ }
          {       ]|[       }
          {       ]|[       }
          {       ]^[       }
          {       ]^[       }
          """"""""]^[""""""""
                   ^
                   ^

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 08:04:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Last of the RWD Delta 88s

>
>I've got it in my head that I'd like to pick up an 80 to 85 vintage Delta
>88 or 98 Regency 2-door (if they made such a beast) as a driver. I always
>liked these cars, especially in the 2-door version, but they are getting
>rare these days. I have a few questions:

>2. Am I correct in assuming the only V-8 these would have come with
>(aside from a Diesel which is not under consideration here) is a 307?

     Yeah, unless you want the 260!!! (The '80 let you have the 350 still,
but that doesn't mean much.)  Either way, with the 260, 307, or 350 (Gas or
diesel) the 350 or 403 will bolt right up.  In '79 they put the Computer
Controlled Catalytic Convertor (C4) system in SOME models, and by '81, they
had all put out with the Computer Command Control.  This is not a bad thing,
but can be a performance limitation, if thats what you're after.
                   |
           ________|________
          {        |        } Charley Buehner
          {        |        } "Rockit 1"
          {        |        } buehner@cis.nmclites.edu
          {        |        } http://www.nmclites.edu/~buehner
          {        |        }
          {        |        }
          {        |        }
          {        |        }
          {       /|\       }   "There's no replacement
          {     /  |  \     }        for displacement..."
          {   /    |    \   }
          { /      |      \ }
          {       ]|[       }
          {       ]|[       }
          {       ]^[       }
          {       ]^[       }
          """"""""]^[""""""""
                   ^
                   ^

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 08:04:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Fixin' the Delta

>>>Sometimes the diaphram inside sticks, causing loss of hornal quality!
>
>>Hornal quality?????
>
>"Trumpetic hornosity", according to the service manual...

     Yeah, similar to Aunt Edna's screeching, uh, scratch that; Singing, in
the shower!!!!

                   |
           ________|________
          {        |        } Charley Buehner
          {        |        } "Rockit 1"
          {        |        } buehner@cis.nmclites.edu
          {        |        } http://www.nmclites.edu/~buehner
          {        |        }
          {        |        }
          {        |        }
          {        |        }
          {       /|\       }   "There's no replacement
          {     /  |  \     }        for displacement..."
          {   /    |    \   }
          { /      |      \ }
          {       ]|[       }
          {       ]|[       }
          {       ]^[       }
          {       ]^[       }
          """"""""]^[""""""""
                   ^
                   ^

------------------------------

From: david.chontofalsky@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 08:19:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Toronado Xperts: Seen any XSR's?

In "The Complete History of General Motors, 1908-1986", there is a picture of
a 1977 Toronado XSR; what is unusual about this model is the *huge*
wraparound rear window, like the 1950's Studebaker.

Has anyone ever seen this model Toronado? Was this rear-window only available
on this model, and in 1977, or was this model offered in other years or on
other models?

It was available on 1977 only.  I remember we only sold 2 in 1977.  Amazingly
so, this was not offered on the Eldorado nor Riveria to the best of my
knowledge, this was an Olds Exclusive.....
David

------------------------------

From: johnspr@ix.netcom.com (JOHN PRESTON )
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 08:47:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Toronado Xperts: Seen any XSR's?

You wrote:
>
>In "The Complete History of General Motors, 1908-1986", there is a
picture of
>a 1977 Toronado XSR; what is unusual about this model is the *huge*
>wraparound rear window, like the 1950's Studebaker.
>
>Has anyone ever seen this model Toronado? Was this rear-window only
available
>on this model, and in 1977, or was this model offered in other years
or on
>other models?
>
>It was available on 1977 only.  I remember we only sold 2 in 1977.
Amazingly
>so, this was not offered on the Eldorado nor Riveria to the best of my
>knowledge, this was an Olds Exclusive.....
>David
>
>
Regarding Rick Rickenbach's previous post......"You could get a Toro in
'77 with the 455".......

I thought the 455 was dicontinued at the end of '76.  Can anyone else
confirm its use **after** '76?

------------------------------

From: david.chontofalsky@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 08:43:06 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Last of the RWD Delta 88s

> ***WHAT ABOUT A 1980 DELTA HOLIDAY 88 (they were made 78-80 and came with a
> Calais style bucket seat floorshif console and were kind of interesting also
the

Tell me more.  I never heard of it and it's not even in my old car
guide.  Sounds VERY interesting...

Dink


Well Dink,
I guess to try to get more sales Olds offered a trim package on the base Delta
88 coupe.  (this was a non Royale car, I think they were G37 instead of N37 )
It came with base exterior trim and a badge on the sail panel (roof) that was
in sort of small redish block letters "HOLIDAY 88".  You could get them with
the whole aray of GM engines from the Pontiac V6 and 301 V8 , the chevy 305
4bb, Olds 260 2bbl, Chevy 350, olds 350 and the Olds 403 (in 78 and 79) . In
1980 the engine choices were more limited to the V6, 260 and 350.

Interior wise I believe them to be like the Calais, rough grained vinyl bucket
seats with the console and automatic shifter on the floor.  The door panels
were mostly vinyl. (remember this was a base model 88) and the wheel covers
were also Calais like where they had a ring on the outer side of the disc that
was color cordinated to the body (If the super stock wheels were not ordered)
I really like the Super stock wheels that you could get on these  They were
sort of like the standard painted Super Stock Wheels used on sooo many years
with the exception the lug nuts were covered by the center cap. The center cap
had a brushed aluminum finish with a black outline of the rocket and the
center cap was severly cone shaped covering the nuts, unlike the chrome ones
that had the notches to reveal the nuts.

You could really load one of these cars up with power everything, but alas I
dont believe they were popular when new.  I only remember seeing less than 50
or so in my days of poking at cars.  Although  there sits one a few blocks
where I live.  Someone at AAA has a real nice dark blue with white vinyl top
and camel inter with wire wheel (correct factory) covers 1979 model.  I have
been tempted on many occasions to put a note on it.

I think I have a brochure for one of these in my files somehwere.  It was an
option package on the Base Delta and was not  a separate model.  So
information might be scarce.  What else do you want to know?  These are the
facts as I remember and since I am at work I dont have ready access to my
files now.  If you are interested in more info, Email me at my AOL account
where I can poke around and answer you from home. CARBUFF442@AOL.COM Later
David

------------------------------

From: david.chontofalsky@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 08:48:30 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Last of the RWD Delta 88s

>> ***WHAT ABOUT A 1980 DELTA HOLIDAY 88 (they were made 78-80 and came with a
>> Calais style bucket seat floorshif console and were kind of interesting
also the
>
>Tell me more.  I never heard of it and it's not even in my old car
>guide.  Sounds VERY interesting...

Yup, sort of like a Pace Car setup. Full size car with a console!
Big Rally wheels with huge center caps, as I recall. I saw a LeSabre
T-type at the local service station one day with the same setup in
it. The manager was going crazy trying to find a console shifter
cable for the thing...

>>>>>Also Buick had that White Palm Beach Edition LeSabre Custom that came
with the Las Vegas homeymoon Suite interior trim.  :) David<<<<<<<<<<

- --
Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: david.chontofalsky@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 09:03:42 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Toro 403's- 1977 specs

On Wed, 6 Mar 1996 Bob0Barry@aol.com wrote:

> In searching for a 403 core to base my rebuild on, I thought I'd try to find
> out what versions of this engine were made, and what they were installed in.
> So far as I can tell from my Chilton's 1976-1983 manual, it seems that there
> are 5 distinct versions, from lowest to highest hp:

If you want a core, use a '77 block.  Supposedly stronger due to fully
webbed bottom end.

> 5) 200hp@3600rpm, 330ft/lbs@2400rpm, 8.0:1 comp. ratio
>     1977 Toronado (only engine available)

You could get a Toro in '77 with the 455.  Mighta bin that XJS (whatever :)
package that's been discussed lately.

>>>>>>To the best of my knowledge 455 last availability in US models non
Comercial was 1976 not 1977
The 1977 Brochure for Toro only lists a 403  ....David<<<<<

- -Rod
-
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
    Rod Rickenbach                                       Delaware Tech
     rod@dtcc.edu                                 Computer Services Department
http://www.dtcc.edu/~rod                            Stanton/Wilmington Campus

------------------------------

From: Rod Rickenbach <rod@hopi.dtcc.edu>
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 09:38:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Toro 403's- 1977 specs

On Thu, 7 Mar 1996 david.chontofalsky@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu wrote:

> You could get a Toro in '77 with the 455.  Mighta bin that XJS (whatever :)
> package that's been discussed lately.
>
> >>>>>>To the best of my knowledge 455 last availability in US models non
> Comercial was 1976 not 1977
> The 1977 Brochure for Toro only lists a 403  ....David<<<<<

I used to think the same thing.  I have, however, seen several '77 Toros
for sale with a 455.  I remember the XRS designation or something like
that in the ads...

- -Rod
-
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
    Rod Rickenbach                                       Delaware Tech
     rod@dtcc.edu                                 Computer Services Department
http://www.dtcc.edu/~rod                            Stanton/Wilmington Campus

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 10:04:07 -0400
Subject: Suspension and brake sources

          The "Pontiac Place" for handling parts is HO Racing in
          Lawndale, CA.  They also have 403 stuff since this was used
          in the Trans Am.

          Also check Global West Alignment in the San Fernando Valley.
          They market a suspension package for A-bodies which includes
          tubular upper a-arms and a kit for installing second
          generation F-body front spindles on the A-body cars.  This
          does wonders for the front suspension geometry and handling.
          They also have springs, sway bars, and other parts.

          Once the car goes and turns, it's gotta stop.  Engineered
          Components Inc (ECI) (check ads in Street Rodder magazine)
          makes four wheel disk brake kits.  The best (and most
          expensive) adapts late model Vette brakes to these cars.  I
          also just saw an article about BAER Racing which now makes
          humongous brakes for A-bodies.

          I'll try to find phone numbers and addresses.

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: clark@sh28.dseg.ti.com (Pat Clark 952-3776)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:12:48 -0400
Subject: Carb running rich

Hey guys, got a question on carbs. What are the various culprits that make a
carb run rich? My 69 has an aftermarket Edelbrock (aka Carter) 625cfm with
elec choke and has run extremely rich ever since I bought it. I have checked
the float levels (ok) and fiddled with the mixture screws on the front.
Anybody have any ideas on what I should look for? The car basicaly sat for 6
mo. while the engine /trans was being rebuilt.

							Thanks,


          ___              ___        _________
         /   |            /   |      /         \
        /    |           /    |     |   ___    |
       /     |          /     |     |__|   |   |
      /      |         /      |           /   /
     /       |        /       |          /   /
    /   /|   |       /   /|   |         /   /
   /   /_|   |__    /   /_|   |__      /   /
  |             |  |             |    /   /
  |______     __|  |______     __|   /   /_____
         |   |            |   |     |          |      Pat Clark
         |___|            |___|     |__________|       69 442


   "Just your average 300+hp garage hogging, gas sucking, money pit"

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:35:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Cleaning parts -n- stuff. was Re: (no subject)

>After I installed them with 205/50VR16s, I started having
>bizzar front end problems.  It would pull hard one way, and then a while
>later, it would pull hard the other way.  It really kept me on my toes
>since if I wasn't paying attention when it happened I would soon find
>myself off the road!!  Needless to say I changed the fronts back to the
>original wimpy 14x7" wheels until I figure out what the problem is.  The
>only reason I bring this up is it's just something to think about.  My
>struts and ball joints are getting really old, and that could have
>something to do with it.

That sounds like "tramlining"; the track width is wider than designed
due to the wide tires and the stressed-out wheel bearings allow the
wheel alignment to go out of whack. With each wheel headed in a different
direction, they start fighting each other for traction and you feel the
car leap first one way, then the other as each tire briefly wins the fight
for pavement grip, then loses it to the other a second later. Perhaps you
should take a close look at the bearings, ball joints, and alignment; any
slop in the alignment can be exaggerated by the wide track tires.

If you've ever been stuck following a Toyota that's been modified with
one of those stupid low/wide slot-car-like tires, watch the poor guy
fighting for control of the car as it wanders side-to-side down the
street. Here we see a depressing number of those cars. One guy did it
to a Cadillac...  :-(
- --
Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Dink" <heinle@jake.udayton.edu>
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:57:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Valve lift on my 403; and standards for shop man. specs

>      	I've got an old cam from a '78 403; came from a Trans Am.  If I 
can
> dig it up again, I could probably get some measurements from it, if it would
> answer your questions.

I was wondering if the Pontiac 403 and Olds 403 are the same?

Dink
80 Delta 88 Royale

{
Dink           Dayton, Ohio
http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
Computer Information Systems Major @ UD
}

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:58:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Toro 403's- 1977 specs

In a message dated 96-03-06 22:56:50 EST, you write:

>If you want a core, use a '77 block.  Supposedly stronger due to fully
>webbed bottom end.
>
>> 5) 200hp@3600rpm, 330ft/lbs@2400rpm, 8.0:1 comp. ratio
>>     1977 Toronado (only engine available)
>
>You could get a Toro in '77 with the 455.  Mighta bin that XJS (whatever :)
>package that's been discussed lately.

>From all the sources I have available, it seems the last year of the
big-block Olds 455 was 1976. The 403 was its replacement in 1977, and served
duty in the downsized B and C bodies as the top motor, in the same way the
Pontiac 301 was the base motor on some models in the downsizing effort;
smaller cars, smaller motors.

The 1977 XSR had the 403, from what I can tell. In fact, the Toro had the 403
as its only motor, in 200hp form in 1977, and in 185hp form in 1978. The '79
Toronado and Riviera shared the downsized platform new for that year, and
came with the gas 350 as the top motor.

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:58:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Toronado Xperts: Seen any XSR's?

In a message dated 96-03-06 21:48:31 EST, you write:

>>Has anyone ever seen this model Toronado? Was this rear-window only
>available
>>on this model, and in 1977, or was this model offered in other years or on
>>other models?
>
>I know of one that is in a junkyard near here.  I've always loved those
>windows, and especially the taillights mounted in the decklid.  Olds was
>really
>looking ahead when they built that car.

Where are you located? Is it missing most parts, or semi-complete?

------------------------------

From: Rod Rickenbach <rod@hopi.dtcc.edu>
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:53:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Valve lift on my 403; and standards for shop man. specs

On Thu, 7 Mar 1996, Dink wrote:

> >      	I've got an old cam from a '78 403; came from a Trans Am.  If 
I can
> > dig it up again, I could probably get some measurements from it, if it
would > > answer your questions. > > I was wondering if the Pontiac 403 and
Olds 403 are the same?

There is no "Pontiac" 403.  Pontiac used the 403 (Olds motor) in Trans
Ams (perhaps in their larger cars too) from '77-79 I believe.

- -Rod
-
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
    Rod Rickenbach                                       Delaware Tech
     rod@dtcc.edu                                 Computer Services Department
http://www.dtcc.edu/~rod                            Stanton/Wilmington Campus

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 04:48:09 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Small Block Camshaft

     You've got the theory down correctly!  It will most definitely result
     in lower MPG since your engine will spend more time at higher RPM's.
     I dunno about decreased part-throttle response, I can't notice any on
     my '84 H/O, which has a factory 2400rpm lockup stall converter.  This
     type of converter is on the 200-4R and 700R4 trannies and requires a
     computer to control the torque converter lockup.  Basically the torque
     converter locks up at speed (about 40mph or more) in an attempt to
     increase your gas mileage.  It succeeds, but only if you spend a lot
     of the time at speed.

     Changes as far as driveability:  Snow is kind of a bitch, requires
     careful throttle control since the rear breaks loose really easy.
     When doing a normal launch, like off a stoplight from idle, the car
     takes just a fraction of a second more to get the engine up to speed
     before moving.  Hardly noticeable, and when you power-brake it that's
     eliminated.  Also the high-stall converters make more heat, it may be
     a good idea to install a tranny cooler.  Not absolutely necessary for
     just 500-800 over stock, but it's cheap insurance (they run $30-$40).

     Tom L.


______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: Re: Small Block Camshaft Author:
oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET Date:    3/6/96 9:17 PM


Chris,
I was told the camshafts I am contemplating work better with a higher stall
speed converter.  I think that this means while the engine is idling, the
torque converter won't transfer motion to the tranny until the engine rpms
rise up.  I also heard that this will result in lower mpg and decreased part
throttle response.  I would like to hear from people who use these converters.
 I am looking at a very mild street converter, only 500-800 rpm over stock.
What type of difference in mpg should I expect?  Also, what changes as far as
drivebility is concerned will result?  Thanks Tony


------------------------------

From: david.chontofalsky@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:03:36 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Valve lift on my 403; and standards for shop man. spe

>       I've got an old cam from a '78 403; came from a Trans Am.  If I can
> dig it up again, I could probably get some measurements from it, if it would
> answer your questions.

I was wondering if the Pontiac 403 and Olds 403 are the same?

>>>If the VIN letter/number designation was the same, like an "R" engine is an
Olds 350 4bbl I would say the cams should be the same.  If not it would be a
nightmare for the selling dealer to work on the thing and replace parts
correctly. This purely an observation from working in a dealership.  Oh, Early
or late may have factored into it also.  DAvid<<<<<<<



Dink
80 Delta 88 Royale

{
Dink           Dayton, Ohio
http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
Computer Information Systems Major @ UD
}

------------------------------

From: roady@postoffice.ptd.net (Cory Roadarmel)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:28:06 -0400
Subject: Here's the specs on the gears

These specs are for the 1985 model year but GM may have used the same
numbers on other years of axles.





REAR AXLE FIELD IDENTIFICATION

Axles are manfactured by Buick, Chevrolet Buffalo, Chevrolet Warren,
Chevrolet Gear and Axel,Oldsmobile, Pontiac and McKinnon.  Divisional
Manfacturer code letters will be metal stamped on the axle tube adjacent to
the carrier for field identification. (see example) Metal stamped on right
front inboard side,letters and numerals 1/4" high 3" outboard of carrier or
are located on a metal tag attached to cover  bolt.
Reference should be made to divisional service manuals for location on some
models.

	FIELD IDENTIFICATION

Minimal Requirements for Idento-Plate
   |
   |
   |
____________
NK            B		218		D		W
 |	    |		  |		 |		 |
 |	    | 		  |		 |		 |
 |	    |		  |		 |		 |
 |	    |		  |		 |		 |
Ratio	    |		  |		 |		Limited 
Slip Ident.
Code	    |		  |		 |		(G80 
Option)
	Manufacturer	  |		 |		 W - Borg 
Warner
	Identity	  |		 |		 E - Eaton
		        Day of year	 |		 O - Olds
			Axle Built	 |
					D - Day Shift
					N - Night Shift


Axle Identification Codes               (* INDICATES POSI UNIT)

2.41 RATIO GU1 OPTION		2.73 RATIO GU2 OPTION		
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CODE		RING GEAR 	CODE		RING GEAR

BGL		7.50		8NV*		8.50
				8YB		8.50
				8YP*		8.50
				8GN		7.50

2.93 RATIO GU3 OPTION		3.08 RATIO GU4 OPTION
CODE		RING GEAR	CODE		RING GEAR

8NW*		8.50		8NX*		8.50
8YC		8.50		8LG		8.50
8YQ*		8.50		8YD		8.50
8GP		7.50		8YR*		8.50
8GU		7.50

3.23 RATIO GU5 OPTION		2.14 RATIO G72 OPTION
CODE		RING GEAR	CODE   	RING GEAR

8NY*		8.50		8BK*		7.50
8LH		8.50		8AK		7.50
8YE		8.50
8YS*		8.50

2.29 RATIO GH2 OPTION		2.41 RATIO GU1 OPTION
CODE		RING GEAR	CODE 		RING GEAR

8BH*		7.50		8BJ*		7.50
8AH		7.50		8AJ		7.50
				8AZ		7.50
				8BZ*		7.50


2.56 RATIO GM8 OPTION			2.73 RATIO GU2 OPTION
CODE		RING GEAR		CODE 		RING GEAR

8BA*		7.50			8BB*		7.50
8AA		7.50			8AB		7.50
8AY		7.50			8AX		7.50
8BY*		7.50			8BX*		7.50

3.08 RATIO GU4 OPTION			3.23 RATIO GU5 OPTION
CODE		RING GEAR		CODE		RING GEAR

8BC*		7.50			8BD*		7.50
8AC		7.50			8AD		7.50
8AV		7.50
8BV*		7.50


3.42 RATIO GU6 OPTION			3.73 RATIO GT4 OPTION
CODE		RING GEAR		CODE		RING GEAR

8TP*		8.50			8TF		8.50
8TJ		8.50			8TR*		8.50
					8TH*		8.50
					8TF		8.50
					9TR*		8.50
					9TF		8.50
					9TZ*		7.625
					9TY		7.625
* INDICATES POSITRACTION
	

MANNUFACTURER IDENTITY

B - BUICK				G - CHEVROLET GEAR AND AXLE
O - OLDSMOBILE			        C - CHEVROLET BUFFALO
P - PONTIAC				K - GM OF CANADA ST. CATHERINES
P - PONTIAC / CANADA			    (McKINNON)
W - CHEVROLET WARREN

------------------------------

From: Dan Dale <daleds@okra.millsaps.edu>
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:25:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Toronado Xperts: Seen any XSR's?

>>>Has anyone ever seen this model Toronado? Was this rear-window only
>>available
>>>on this model, and in 1977, or was this model offered in other years or on
>>>other models?
>>
>>I know of one that is in a junkyard near here.  I've always loved those
>>windows, and especially the taillights mounted in the decklid.  Olds was
>>really
>>looking ahead when they built that car.
>
>Where are you located? Is it missing most parts, or semi-complete?

I really don't remember. It has been awhile.  Do you need any specific parts?
I'll try and go check it out today or tomorrow if it stops raining.

Dan Dale
'72 Cotner-Bevington Oldsmobile 98 Endloader

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:24:00 -0400
Subject: Misc.

> There's a '71 455 engine I'm currently looking at and the engine sports J
> heads. A little info on J's would be appreciated. If I buy this engine am I
> going to have to change the heads in order to get better performance or can
> the J's be worked with little effort and $$. Or should I just forget the J's
> and try and pick up a pair of G's or E's.
> Fernando Proietto

Well, for most practical purposes, the J's will flow as good as you need them
to. Since chambers are the same size, finding other heads will not help
compression any...
  What strikes me as funny, however, is that the block you say is a '71 and
the J heads are 73-76 units, therefore, the heads have been changed. Find out
why and what else was done at the time... To their credit, the J's usually had
hard xst seats... but the exhaust port, under the valve head, is rather
restrictive, choking down to about 1.25" or so. Since the exhaust has a great
deal of pressure assisting it out the door, that's not critical, but they will
never max out like a good set of earlier heads. Also, J heads typically have
the cheeseball springs with no dampers. Again, not critical for a driver, tow
vehicle, etc. but certainly not the best available.

> Does anyone know the valve lift from the stock cam on a '78 403?  Where
would > that information be available? > I just got the shop manual for this
car, and thought it would be in there, > but not for the Olds motors.

Well, I have a 78 Pontiac manual that goes into great detail on the 403,
better even than most of the Olds manuals. However, it's at home right now,
and I am not.

> 2. Am I correct in assuming the only V-8 these would have come with
> (aside from a Diesel which is not under consideration here) is a 307?

Diesels can be converted to 9.5:1 gas engines w/o even removing the engine
from the car...

> Chris:  Bryce does have a small image -- hope a better
> one comes along.  It'll help me to figure out where the
> FLAMES would look best.  What's this about a pre-
> production model???

Patience. It'll be there soon. Appears to be a model that they used in
developing the Toro. Blue, about 3' long, slightly different styling.

- --XSR--
> Has anyone ever seen this model Toronado? Was this rear-window only
available > on this model, and in 1977, or was this model offered in other
years or on > other models?

Well, I had the chance to pick up a parts car with that window a couple years
ago, for $300, but it was real bad rusty, and the engine was bad. I passed. I
see the windows advertised for like $1200, though.
- --Chris--

> Well, if they can't sell your old car to a polluting industry for pollution
> credits, they are going to destroy your older car.

Sadly, it appears that the government has forgotten that we hired them to work
FOR us, not to run our lives... Time for a wake-up call?

> Just try to take it from me EPA!  They took my octane (sp?) away, then
> they took my lead too, but they are not getting my damn car.  Period!!!

Maybe you haven't heard [Letters, HMN] what's going on in NJ?? Just that-
first, they require a stringent new exhaust test DESIGNED to fail about half
of the older cars. Then, the new law revokes your registration on that
vehicle. Since it's already illegal to keep unregistered vehicles, even on
your own property, they can come and take it away.
  What country is this again? Russia, or the 'land of the free'??? What
happened to that clause about not taking property w/o compensation? Who gets
to decide compensation level?

> 1) Join SEMA (Speciality Equipment Market Association).  800 514-SEMA.
> (http://www.4x44u.com/pub/k2/am4x44u/truck_stop/manufact/semaalrt.htm)
> 2) Write to your state and federal politicians.
I agree, and I do. Use those computers! Generate written letters, not email,
and send it off. Make it a hobby.

>     Drano is the same stuff they use in a hot-tank (NaOH...sodium
> hydroxide-- a very strong base).  I have a little 5 gallon tank that
> works like a dream on brackets and stuff.  I won't remove rust though,
> just paint and grease.  You would need an acid to remove rust.  NaOH also
> works a lot better if you can find a way to heat it.  One other tip--only
> use it on ferrous metal (iron or steel).  It will dissolve aluminum and
> other alloys making your day a lot less fun.  When you pull the stuff out

Hmmmm.... way to remove rusted-in pistons?

> '72 Cotner-Bevington Olds 98 Endloader

Heh! Endloader!

Again, if anyone has any proof positive of this rumored fully-webbed 403
block, I'd be very interested to see it. Photos, something like that. I am
betting they don't exist, it's a legend.
  If you are replacing the innards, then one 403's pretty much the same
as any other, huh? Barring the usual- rod stuck thru the side of the block is
probably not quite as nice as one from a running 20K mile granny car...
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:25:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Valve lift on my 403; and standards for shop man. specs

In a message dated 96-03-07 11:16:21 EST, you write:

>>      	I've got an old cam from a '78 403; came from a Trans Am.  If 
I can
>> dig it up again, I could probably get some measurements from it, if it
>would
>> answer your questions.
>
>I was wondering if the Pontiac 403 and Olds 403 are the same?

Pontiac never had its own 403, though in its engine spec charts, Chilton's
identifies the 403 installed in some Pontiacs as a "Pontiac" 403. Pontiac had
a 400ci motor until 1979 installed in T/A's, but also used the Oldsmobile 403
in its auto T/A applications from 1977 through 1979 in 185hp trim (what just
about everybody else got).

The Olds 403 seems to have been intended as the "corporate" big motor for
BOP, to replace the various 455's that were installed in the B and C cars
through 1976. The Pontiac 400 survived in some Pontiac applications.

These cars seem to have used the 231 Buick V-6, 260 Olds V-8, 301 Pontiac
V-8, Olds 350 V-8 and Olds 403 V-8 to cover the gamut of engine options,
without duplicating engines. The 301 would be replaced by the Olds 307, and
the Olds 350 was replaced by the Chevy 350 (though they were used along side
each other for a while, to the confusion and consternation of some dedicated
"Rocket" owners; these were the bad old days.)

Of course Cadillac had its own 425/368 series of engines, and Chevy used its
own 229 V-6 and 305/350 V-8's up until the early 80's. Then Cadillac went the
BOP route, and even Chevy used the Olds 307 in its wagons.

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:30:33 -0400
Subject: 68 parts car?

Jason, was it? who just got a 68 98?? parts car? Give me a holler, eh!?

- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:28:17 -0400
Subject: L-block engine

Went to scout the possibility of liberating that engine from that horrid place
today- it's gone. The pile of engines is much smaller now. Maybe next time.
  Good news is, I found a nice 5A head already removed and on the ground at
the other place... and got it for under $10. There's also a core 403 and a
#7-heads 350 that I might get after I get a truck this weekend. Mom's
Celebrity does not lend itself to hauling 2 core engines out to the farm... -
-- Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: "Dink" <heinle@jake.udayton.edu>
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:23:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Valve lift on my 403; and standards for shop man. specs

> > I was wondering if the Pontiac 403 and Olds 403 are the same?

> There is no "Pontiac" 403.  Pontiac used the 403 (Olds motor) in Trans
> Ams (perhaps in their larger cars too) from '77-79 I believe.

Ok, clears that up.
By the way we had a 403 in our 77 Pontiac Grand Safari (station
wagon.)  It moved...

Dink
80 Delta 88 Royale

{
Dink           Dayton, Ohio
http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
Computer Information Systems Major @ UD
}

------------------------------

From: david.chontofalsky@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:42:35 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Valve lift on my 403; and standards for shop man. spe

In a message dated 96-03-07 11:16:21 EST, you write:

>>       I've got an old cam from a '78 403; came from a Trans Am.  If I can
>> dig it up again, I could probably get some measurements from it, if it
>would
>> answer your questions.
>
>I was wondering if the Pontiac 403 and Olds 403 are the same?

Pontiac never had its own 403, though in its engine spec charts, Chilton's
identifies the 403 installed in some Pontiacs as a "Pontiac" 403. Pontiac had
a 400ci motor until 1979 installed in T/A's, but also used the Oldsmobile 403
in its auto T/A applications from 1977 through 1979 in 185hp trim (what just
about everybody else got).

The Olds 403 seems to have been intended as the "corporate" big motor for
BOP, to replace the various 455's that were installed in the B and C cars
through 1976. The Pontiac 400 survived in some Pontiac applications.

>>>The Pontiac/Olds 400 VS 403 I believe to be a decerning factor was if the
car was an automatic or stick. I had been told by Pontiac enthusiasts that if
the TA was an automatic it got the 403, if the car had a stick shift; it got
the Pontiac 400.,Just passin the info on  DAvid<<<<<<<

These cars seem to have used the 231 Buick V-6, 260 Olds V-8, 301 Pontiac
V-8, Olds 350 V-8 and Olds 403 V-8 to cover the gamut of engine options,
without duplicating engines. The 301 would be replaced by the Olds 307, and
the Olds 350 was replaced by the Chevy 350 (though they were used along side
each other for a while, to the confusion and consternation of some dedicated
"Rocket" owners; these were the bad old days.)

Of course Cadillac had its own 425/368 series of engines, and Chevy used its
own 229 V-6 and 305/350 V-8's up until the early 80's. Then Cadillac went the
BOP route, and even Chevy used the Olds 307 in its wagons.

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 08:18:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Misc.

     Well, Mondello lists both a high-performance cast iron and forged
     steel crankshaft for the 350-403.  It doesn't say whether it's
     fully-webbed or not, but why would anyone build a forged crank
     otherwise?

     But. . .  If you have to ask how much, you can't afford them.


______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: Misc. Author:
oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET Date:    3/7/96 11:18 AM


Again, if anyone has any proof positive of this rumored fully-webbed 403
block, I'd be very interested to see it. Photos, something like that. I am
betting they don't exist, it's a legend.
  If you are replacing the innards, then one 403's pretty much the same
as any other, huh? Barring the usual- rod stuck thru the side of the block is
probably not quite as nice as one from a running 20K mile granny car...
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu


------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:42:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Valve lift on my 403; and standards for shop man. spe

Correct, the "T/A 6.6" Pontiac 400's came with the manual option (there
were very few of these) and the "6.6 Litre" Olds 403 were autos with
hurst dual gate.  I guess Pontiac still had some loyalty to their marque.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: "Dink" <heinle@jake.udayton.edu>
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:55:37 -0400
Subject: crunching noise was clicking noise

Now that I have drove around on it some more, it sounds more like a
crunching sound when turning left.  Kinda like suspension crunching
or something.  Also on the highway it has alot of body roll so i'm
thinking it is a broken end link.  I checked all the rally inserts
and they seem fine.  But I did notice when I turned the wheel's lock to
lock on the ground it seems they turn more to the left than right, is
this usual?  And I noticed the right side of the sway bar had some fresh marks
on it, maybe the wheel is hitting the bar?  Also the steering is very
sloppy, i'm assuming it's the steering box, whats the life range of these?

I'll check all this stuff out next week when i'm at home for spring
break, so i won't get any of this awesome mail for a week :(

Dink
80 Delta 88 Royale

{
Dink           Dayton, Ohio
http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
Computer Information Systems Major @ UD
}

------------------------------

From: "wesf@hpdmm12.boi.hp.com" <wesf@hpdmm12.boi.hp.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:30:53 -0400
Subject: Re: H/O Digital Tach

>There sat a 75 H/O with a good hood (I got the ornament, Lucky
>me, huh?

Smart thinking... Shoulda grabbed the console Dual/Gate bezel
and little rocket emblem if that was there, too...

>Anyone know where I can get a Digital Tach for a '74 H/O?
>This will roundout my otherwise NICELY equipped 74 Pace Edition.

Try "A Little Different, Ltd. in West Palm Beach, FL.  They used
to have them at about $200 each...  Their phone # is 407/640-4135.

You can also pick up an Indy Pace Car decal set if yours is worn
or faded.

Wes Fujii

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:36:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Misc.

> >     Drano is the same stuff they use in a hot-tank (NaOH...sodium
> > hydroxide-- a very strong base).  I have a little 5 gallon tank that
> > works like a dream on brackets and stuff.  I won't remove rust though,
> > just paint and grease.  You would need an acid to remove rust.  NaOH also
> > works a lot better if you can find a way to heat it.  One other tip--only
> > use it on ferrous metal (iron or steel).  It will dissolve aluminum and
> > other alloys making your day a lot less fun.  When you pull the stuff out
>
> Hmmmm.... way to remove rusted-in pistons?
>

	Hey, I didn't even think of that!!  I bet it would work if you
put a really concentrated solution in there for long enough.  Only thing
is it seems to foam up when it contacts it.  Maybe you could have the
block hot-tanked and see what happens.  It would also eat the bearings
though.  It'd be pretty weird to get your block back with just three
rings frozen in the cylinder...
		
			Scott
		1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:45:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Hydraulic roller cams

Another interested in any one's experience.  Considering a solid roller cam
like the MP 20-22 or hydralic RH 94-95.  Need to talk to JM first though.

David Brown
dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu    (312) 702-9157
"Oldsmobile - powerful roadsters with big V8s"
- -----------------------

Wow, I left a note on this subject last week and did,nt get even one
reply, so I guess I'll ask again.  Have any of you guys out there had
any experience with roller cams in the olds 455.  I'm considering it,
but there is limited availability, the prices are high, and I want to
know what I can expect if I go this route.  Mondello sais that he
does,nt recommend it for a street motor, but mostly because its so
expensive for only a moderate gain.  He also said I would probably
notice the gains in the low to mid range the most.

I would be interested in hearing from any of you guys who have
dabbled with these cams.    .......72 olds cutlass.

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:19:00 -0400
Subject: Washer pump

     Quite a while back there was a discussion here about washer pumps and
     the fact that the internal seals tend to dry out, and what to do about
     them.

     Can anyone remember what the conclusion was?  The washer pump on my
     '84 H/O don't work.  It spins and sort of half-hartedly gurgles out
     fluid.  I've checked all the lines, and now I'm assuming it's the
     pump.  The car was garaged winters and only driven during nice weather
     by the previous owner, so the pump probably never got used and the
     seals dried out.

     Is there a fix besides a new one?  Can I get just the pump or is it
     integral to the rest of the wiper motor?

     I'm thinking of trying some silicone spray into the inlet while
     pumping, sound feasable to anyone?


     BTW, sorry about the earlier post about the 403's windowed webs and
     the crank.  I was way off base. . .  Is it Friday yet?

     Tom L.

------------------------------

From: Stanfell Boone <boonedoc@netaxs.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:37:09 -0400
Subject: '71 442 convertible parts

I am looking for some of those (usually) high priced parts for my '71 442: a
complete OAI air cleaner (I already have the hood), and a set of grilles.
Maybe someone in the group has specific leads, but failing that, perhaps
someone can point me to salvage yards in the tristate area around
Philadelphia for my own exploration.

In addition, as I will be trundling down to Florida in the middle of March to
stay in the Sarasota/Tampa/St Petersburg area, can anyone suggest likely
yards in that region to explore? I also understand there are two or three
Olds used parts dealers in Florida, but I have no idea where they are
located.

I know there are new grilles available from companies like "The Parts Place",
but I find their price of $299 pretty stiff.  Top to bottom OAIs are even
more ludicrously priced. I am not looking for perfect specimens, so I should
think there must be sources of reasonably priced stuff, but I need some
guidance as to where to look.

Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated.

KR
Stan

------------------------------

From: edison3@cpeq.com (Mike Frederick)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 21:31:12 -0400
Subject: 442 For Sale

FROM TODAY'S TAMPA TRIBUNE:

                OLDS 1967 442, 455 engine, 400 hp,
                400 auto, 12 bolt posi rear, his/her shifter.
                $3000.  (813) 689-8508

If anyone get SERIOUSLY interested in any of these
cars I post, I'll see if I can go take a look for you.


The 66 Toro and Mike



Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Inc.
Tampa, Florida
813.210.8649

------------------------------

From: gludlam@bcinet.net (Gregg Ludlam)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 21:51:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Fixin' the Delta

>>>Sometimes the diaphram inside sticks, causing loss of hornal quality!

>>Hornal quality?????
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>"Trumpetic hornosity", according to the service manual...

Look, it's all I could think of - but Andy, your's takes the cake!!!   :)


- -Gregg, the '67 Toro guy

------------------------------

From: gludlam@bcinet.net (Gregg Ludlam)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 21:57:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Fixin' the Delta

>I've had to repair the horns on both of my Olds's ('64 Jetstar and '75
Delta). >With the Jetstar, the problem was corroded contacts at the horn
relay.  I >pulled the connector off and sanded shiny all metal contacts.
Gregg is >correct that the single wire leading to the horns is 12V, and the
connection >is completed by a good ground contact through the horn itself to
whatever it >is bolted to.  So a good ground is also something to make sure
of.

Another thing you can do is pull the horn out, use an ohmmeter and check the
resistance between the horn's connection and its case.  It should read
nearly zero ohms - there's a coil in there that should be good for a few (8
- - 10?) ohms.  It's how I verified the Toro's horns were scortched - now it
has '71 Caddy horns, and is quite happy...must be that great hornal quality...


- -Gregg, the '67 Toro guy

------------------------------

From: bryce_smith@442.com (Bryceman)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 21:49:07 -0400
Subject: Owners Registry

Greetings Oldsmophiles,
I made some changes to the Owners Registry today. It looks pretty good on
Netscape for the Mac. I am anxious to find out if it looks good with Windows
Netscape. If you have a chance, please check it out and let me know how it
works. I know the font format on Windows Netscape spaces differently than Mac.
I have heard that alot of people on the net dont like FRAMES, but with the
fast pace at which the Registry is growing, I needed a way to split the owners
up.  I am considering doing this with some other areas of the Olds page too.
Anyway, any feedback will be helpful.

'65 442
'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender
bryceman@442.com
www.442.com

------------------------------

From: gludlam@bcinet.net (Gregg Ludlam)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 22:05:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Toronado Xperts: Seen any XSR's?

>Has anyone ever seen this model Toronado? Was this rear-window only available
>on this model, and in 1977, or was this model offered in other years or on
>other models?

Yep, seen several - they even made them with T-tops, if you can imagine
that!  And that rear glass is about $1500 to replace!!!


- -Gregg, the '67 Toro guy

------------------------------

From: gludlam@bcinet.net (Gregg Ludlam)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 22:07:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Karate Kid W-30 442

>That car wasn't a real W-30 because i didn't see the air scoops on the bottom

Huh?  It was a '71 or '72, therefore it had the scooped hood - not the circa
'68/'69 bumper scoops.


- -Gregg, the '67 Toro guy

------------------------------

From: <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 22:23:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Toronado Xperts: Seen any XSR's?

>I haven't seen that, but has anyone ever seen the '66 FORD Thunderbird
>prototype that was made into a full-scale clay model?


No, I didn't see that... However, all cars start life as full size clay
models. Today, the models are digitized to wireframe, modeled then
surfaced. GM uses Unigraphics and CGS, Ford uses PDGS (soon to be
changed to SDRC) and Chrysler uses Catia as their Computer Aided
Drawing-Design-Drafting.

These clay models come from artists that sketch up 2-dimensional,
conceptual ideas based upon the current market. This "current market
information" generally comes from marketing.

FYI,
Mike


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Michael R. Hall               Ortonville, Michigan
E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com
Owner: 1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

------------------------------

From: gludlam@bcinet.net (Gregg Ludlam)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 22:16:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Washer pump

>
>     Quite a while back there was a discussion here about washer pumps and
>     the fact that the internal seals tend to dry out, and what to do about
>     them.
>
>     Can anyone remember what the conclusion was?  The washer pump on my
>     '84 H/O don't work.  It spins and sort of half-hartedly gurgles out
>     fluid.  I've checked all the lines, and now I'm assuming it's the
>     pump.  The car was garaged winters and only driven during nice weather
>     by the previous owner, so the pump probably never got used and the
>     seals dried out.

Anco makes a series of replacement washer pumps for GM cars from the 60's
through the '90's - I just put one on my Toro.  Any decent parts store will
have them for less than $25.


- -Gregg, the '67 Toro guy

------------------------------

From: gludlam@bcinet.net (Gregg Ludlam)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 22:18:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Rebuilding the 66

>I have a toronado question.  What kind of torque converter does the toro
>transaxle use?  Is it compatible with 350/400 converters?  Are there high
>performance units available if it is not?

Paul, I'll look this up for you to see if the Service Manual makes any
distinction.  The Toro's tranny was basically the internals of a THM-400
turned sideways, so you'd figure the torque converter would be the same.
I'll see what the manual might say and let you know.


- -Gregg, the '67 Toro guy

------------------------------

From: gludlam@bcinet.net (Gregg Ludlam)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 22:21:16 -0400
Subject: '68/'69 Carb Specs

Would those of you with '68 and '69 service manuals kindly look up the info
for a carb application for a Toronado, with A/C, without K-19 and without
K-50?  I need to know the carb number, the primary and secondary metering
rod codes and the jets.  It should all be in the 4MV carb section in a table
near the end of the section.  Thanks bunches - you're all the best!


- -Gregg, the '67 Toro guy

------------------------------

From: "Dink" <heinle@jake.udayton.edu>
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 22:15:40 -0400
Subject: web page

All I get is a blank page at this address.

http://www.442.com/oldsowners.html

Dink
80 Delta 88 Royale

{
Dink           Dayton, Ohio
http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
Computer Information Systems Major @ UD
}

------------------------------

From: BYLN96A@prodigy.com ( GLENN CONNORS)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 22:26:45 -0400
Subject: window glass

I'd like to change out the glass in my '69 4-4-2 at some point.  I
was wondering what the availability is of window glass and the cost
involved.  Is there after market stuff around?  Or does anyone here
have some around that's taking up valuable shop/garage space?

Glenn
'69 4-4-2 (in progress)

------------------------------

From: BYLN96A@prodigy.com ( GLENN CONNORS)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 22:52:03 -0400
Subject: misc. FS:

     To: oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: Misc. FS:

'70 Cutlass hood VGC black
'J' heads freshly rebuilt sitting on my bench in plastic wrap
'70 350ci. 2bbl. #6 heads minus flywheel and fuel pump

Glenn     Western NY. --- (in the very warm temperate zone 10 mi.
east of
'69 4-4-2                          Lake Erie)

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 23:40:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Washer pump

On Thu, 7 Mar 1996, Tom Lentz wrote:
>      Quite a while back there was a discussion here about washer pumps and
>      the fact that the internal seals tend to dry out, and what to do about
>      them.
>      Can anyone remember what the conclusion was?  The washer pump on my
>      '84 H/O don't work.  It spins and sort of half-hartedly gurgles out

I seem to recall 2 suggestions to restore the seals:

1. Try household bleach
2. Try brake fluid

Neither one of these, it should be noted, is likely to be nice to your
paint so be very careful to cover up painted surfaces in case the thing
suddenly springs to life and starts pumping the fix onto your roof...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 23:53:16 -0400
Subject: Re: '68/'69 Carb Specs

On Thu, 7 Mar 1996, Gregg Ludlam wrote:
> Would those of you with '68 and '69 service manuals kindly look up the info
> for a carb application for a Toronado, with A/C, without K-19 and without
> K-50?  I need to know the carb number, the primary and secondary metering
> rod codes and the jets.  It should all be in the 4MV carb section in a table
> near the end of the section.  Thanks bunches - you're all the best!

Only carb listed for a '68 Toro regardless of A/C status is 7028252. No
specs listed on any of the rest of the things you asked for.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:50:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Washer pump

In a message dated 96-03-07 21:44:47 EST, you write:

>>     Quite a while back there was a discussion here about washer pumps and
>>     the fact that the internal seals tend to dry out, and what to do about

>>     them.
>>
>>     Can anyone remember what the conclusion was?  The washer pump on my
>>     '84 H/O don't work.  It spins and sort of half-hartedly gurgles out
>>     fluid.  I've checked all the lines, and now I'm assuming it's the
>>     pump.  The car was garaged winters and only driven during nice weather

>>     by the previous owner, so the pump probably never got used and the
>>     seals dried out.
>
>Anco makes a series of replacement washer pumps for GM cars from the 60's
>through the '90's - I just put one on my Toro.  Any decent parts store will
>have them for less than $25.

Another thing you may want to try. After I rebuilt my washer pump (remove 4
screws, replace diaphram, replace 4 screws- $12.95 for the kit, 10 minutes of
your time; highly recommended over an entire pump for twice the money), it
still only spritzed, even though the lines were clean and connected. Then I
looked in the bottom of my resevoir, only to find a layer of some kind of
scum that was clogging the pickup on the tube that extends into the resevoir.

So, before you rebuild the pump, check to make sure you can actually pump
fluid out of the resevoir. Then rebuild it, since it is so cheap.

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #112
********************************
