
oldsmobile-digest          Sunday, 28 April 1996       Volume 01 : Number 160


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "fursmand" <fursmand@smtpgate.avi.af.mil>
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 10:59:19 -0300
Subject: Re[4]: JUST STARTED 

Thanks Dink,
        I love the idea!  Talking with all of you has helped me decide to 
sign the papers in May to get out of Active duty and go Reserves.  I know 
the Lifers are just that Lifer, not like there is anything wrong with that. 
 I am very happy there are people that live the military.

Don sends 


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Re[2]: JUST STARTED
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at SMTPGATE
Date:    4/27/96 2:01 AM


> Hey Mike,
>         Just wanted to say thanks for writing back about getting out.  I 
> have a friend that wants to open a speed shop or a bar and I told him we 
> should open both.  Do you have any ideas about VA loans?

Have you ever been to Quaker Steak and Lube in Sharon Pa?  It's a 
Bar that has  cars all over the place, most hanging 
upside down from the cieling.  They also own Tallies and The Hot Rod 
Lube's cafe next door.   Tallies is cool and is filled with Harley's, and The 
Lube, has um lets see 59 El Camino, orignal 63 vettte with like 5k on 
it, and Stallone's Bullet proof Suburban.  Also they have the 
Nation's best wings, and man are they good.

That makes me wonder my not start a Bar that showcases only 
Oldsmobiles?  Maybe at first just one, then add as you go. Hmm, maybe 
you could get loaners from some of us in the winter, would save some 
storage costs :)


Dink

!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~
Dink           Dayton, Ohio
80 Olds Delta 88 Royale  MSD, K&N, Dynomax, etc.. 
http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
- --

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 12:01:28 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds Cam Specs 1964-77

At 10:36 AM 4/27/96 -0300, you wrote:
>
>Here's the chart produced by Karl Sarpolis that was originally printed in 
>the Feb./95 issue of JWO. All credit is his.
>
>Olds Camshaft Specifications 1964-1977
>======================================
>
>Year Part #    Ovlp Duration  Lift      Application
>               ^^^^


What does Ovlp stand for and what do the numbers in that column mean?  

Thanks...
- --
Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 12:09:39 -0300
Subject: Cam Question

At 10:36 AM 4/27/96 -0300, you wrote:
>     402194    82   308/308   .474/.474 350 W-31 OAI

>     400084    36   250/264   .400/.400 350 ex. OAI


>From what I can tell on this chart, my 69 Cutlass has cam #400084 in
it...how much more rump-rumpity is a cam cut like #402194?  Could I get one
similar to it today?

Thanks..  

- --
Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 13:05:46 -0300
Subject: Re: Flowmasters... 

>First of all, Flowmaster makes two different style mufflers, 2 and 3
>chambers.  Since they use chambers to convert sound energy to heat energy, 2
>chambers are alot louder than 3 chambers.


>>Sorry to say, somebody sold you a bad bill of goods in the 
>>aforementioned... In sentence #2, both statements are untrue...


Energy conversion of sound to heat would be negligible if any.  The heat is
from the combustion exhaust gasses not the sound. But the comment on two
versus three chamber FlowMasters and noise is true.

The two chamber Flow Masters are designed for the "Street" drag classes that
require the use of a muffler.  If you wish to maintain you hearing and have
no desire to underwrite the tax base of your local comminity through fines,
don't use 'em on the street.

BTW, my 455 containing '67 on nitrous runs the same times with the full 3"
system, including 3 chamber FlowMasters, as with open pipes. Obviously they
flow well.  And it sounds great!  Really rumbles the bricks.

"I may be getting older but I refuse to grow up."

Bob Handren

'67 442 W-30 Modified
'70 Cutlass SX Convertible

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 15:05:15 -0300
Subject: Re: Upcoming Event

> On Mon, 22 Apr 1996, Frederick Pirochta wrote:
> > Please include the "1996 Oldsmobile Homecoming" car show hosted by the 
> > R.E. Olds Chapter in the list of Upcoming Events.  The show will be held 
> > at the Oldsmobile Administration Building in Lansing, MI on Saturday, 
> > June 15, 1996 from 9 am til 4 pm.  Registration is $5.00 per car and 
> > $20.00 per swap space on or before 6/3/96.  After 6/3/96 the cost 
> > increases to $10.00 per car and $30.00 per swap space.
> 
> Anyone ever been to this? Is the swap meet any good, in particular? It 
> looks like I'm going to be travelling on that day and my itinerary 
> includes a stopover in Detroit. If the swap meet is a good one I might 
> want to overnight there and go to it on Saturday. Off to Boise, Idaho for 
> the week after that. Anyone here in that vicinity?
> 
> Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

I was at last years.  I plan to be at this one.  The swap meet had about
20 stalls.  There were about 200 cars.  (To the best of my recollection,
Senator.)

I'll be driving up from Sterling Heights, MI, which is 8 miles north of
Detroit city line.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-8007    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 15:10:10 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: JUST STARTED

> That makes me wonder my not start a Bar that showcases only 
> Oldsmobiles?  Maybe at first just one, then add as you go. Hmm, maybe 
> you could get loaners from some of us in the winter, would save some 
> storage costs :)
> 
> 
> Dink

Yeah, and after we scavange the engines out of Toranodos, we can use the
interiors for booths!

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-8007    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: Dave Voorhis <dave@armchair.mb.ca>
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 15:51:31 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: JUST STARTED 

At 03:10 PM 27/04/96 -0300, you wrote:

>Yeah, and after we scavange the engines out of Toranodos, we can use the
>interiors for booths!

>Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
>lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
>(810) 825-8007    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
>Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

Just for that, I'm going to entirely part out a pristine 1970 98
Convertible, just so I can get, uh, that little rubber bumper thingee at the
bottom inside of the passenger door.  I need one of those.

Dave Voorhis, Toros-R-Us
dave@armchair.mb.ca
http://www.armchiar.mb.ca/~dave

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 16:08:39 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: JUST STARTED

> >Yeah, and after we scavange the engines out of Toranodos, we can use the
> >interiors for booths!
> 
> >Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
> >lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
> >(810) 825-8007    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
> >Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v
> 
> Just for that, I'm going to entirely part out a pristine 1970 98
> Convertible, just so I can get, uh, that little rubber bumper thingee at the
> bottom inside of the passenger door.  I need one of those.
> 
> Dave Voorhis, Toros-R-Us

WHAT!!!  That's a crime!  A crime, I say!

Uhh... How much do want for the front bumper?

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-8007    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: Dave Voorhis <dave@armchair.mb.ca>
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 16:55:57 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: JUST STARTED 

At 04:08 PM 27/04/96 -0300, you wrote:
>> Just for that, I'm going to entirely part out a pristine 1970 98
>> Convertible, just so I can get, uh, that little rubber bumper thingee at the
>> bottom inside of the passenger door.  I need one of those.
>> 
>> Dave Voorhis, Toros-R-Us
>
>WHAT!!!  That's a crime!  A crime, I say!
>
>Uhh... How much do want for the front bumper?

Er...  I was kidding.  (But you knew that. :)  

If I had a '70 98 Convertible, I'd be as proud of it as I am of my Toros.

Dave Voorhis, Toros forever.
dave@armchair.mb.ca
http://www.armchair.mb.ca/~dave

------------------------------

From: urbanch@magi.com (Chris Urban)
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 17:00:27 -0300
Subject: Re: Computer Control problems? 

Brandon
        I hate to tell you but you may be out of luck. Large duration cams
and computer cars don't like each other. The best thing you can do is
contact the cam manufacturer and get his input, but I'll tell you right now
if the cam is too big you either have to get rid of it or your computer.



>     Hi all,
>
>     I am in need of some desperate help if I ever want my Olds back on the
>road in style.   
>     Heres how it goes, About 3 weeks ago, we put the perfromance rebuilt 84
>307.  Just to quickly refresh the memory on the components inside:   84
>block bored .030 over, CompCams 268 hydraulic; IOW, everything related to
>the engine is brand new.
>     Other than a few begining problems, it started up fine.  Its now at the
>point were it should have all the beginning bugs worked out.  Problem is
>that it won't low idle, and isn't seem to run to well.  Just got the carb
>rebuilt hoping to cure the problem.  No luck.  So I took it down to a
>professional mechanic on Weds.  Today he tells me that I have to take the
>cam out of my car because it is to big for the computer.  He tells me that
>the cam is to loppy.  When working on it, he told me that the 13-14 inches
>of vaccum from the computer to the cam (and vise versa) isn't enough.  He
>had to put 20 inches of vaccum on it to even idle well.  He said that it
>runs great after 2500 RPM and because the cam has to much of a power
>curve(?) for the computer.
>     While writing this my brother went to the local perfromance/block &
>head shop and asked the same questions.  Our buddy their said that we might
>have the cam one tooth off.  Therefore messing up the timing.
>     We are going to look at it on Monday at the shop and find the problem
>but I first want to get your guys info.  Has anyone ever had this problem,
>computer controled or not?  Do I need a vaccum helper/upgrade(?) if
>something like that is even made.  Would a special ground computer chip help
>me out?  Any other suggestions welcome.   
>     Now I know some well just laff like hell at me for trying this, and yes
>I understand because I took a big risk.   But please help because I'm tired
>of driving a Ch*vy!!!!  Thank you.
>
>Brandon
>One sick 86 Salon 
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 13:55:33 -0300
Subject: Re: DMR number??

>Does anyone have a phone # for Dick Miller racing???  I want a W-30 hood
>for my Cutlass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I don't think Dick will sell one of those to you... but, his number is 
517 782 2012.

I would call my good friend Ashley Jones of Vintage Tin Unlimited. The 
last time I saw him he had about 2 dozen ORIGINAL hoods. His number is 
517 645 7366.

BTW, he won't give them away so don't try. If you want the cheap price, 
buy the repro from Year One.


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Michael R. Hall                            Ortonville, Michigan
E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com
Owner: 1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
Owner: 1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...
Owner: 1994 GMC Sonoma Club Coupe SLS Pickup, soon to be "Bravadaized".
         Brought to you by a Apple Power Macintosh 7100/80
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

------------------------------

From: Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 14:08:45 -0300
Subject: Re: Flowmasters...

>Energy conversion of sound to heat would be negligible if any.  The heat is
>from the combustion exhaust gasses not the sound. But the comment on two
>versus three chamber FlowMasters and noise is true.


OK, I thought we were talking over all of the manufacturers and since all 
things are not equal, (i.e. baffle diameter, baffle gauge, baffle length, 
perforation diameter, etc., etc.) then I stand corrected. Designs of this 
particular manufacturer probably is the same over their product line...


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Michael R. Hall                            Ortonville, Michigan
E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com
Owner: 1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
Owner: 1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...
Owner: 1994 GMC Sonoma Club Coupe SLS Pickup, soon to be "Bravadaized".
         Brought to you by a Apple Power Macintosh 7100/80
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

------------------------------

From: Roger Saladin <rsaladin@bright.net>
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 18:13:40 -0300
Subject: Re: JUST STARTED 

At 02:56 PM 4/26/96 -0300, you wrote:

>        Back to Oldsmobile, is there anyone else who feels that Oldsmobile 
>needs to get back into the muscle cars as Chevy and Ford still are?  We 
>just need one special production rear wheel drive 442 using today's 
>technology.  I think we could run them all over but reality won't let it 
>ever happen will it?
   Check out what Aurora is doing in the road racing end of things. Olds
may once again be a force to be reckoned with.

------------------------------

From: "fursmand" <fursmand@smtpgate.avi.af.mil>
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 18:00:42 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: JUST STARTED 

I like the Aurora but they got rid of the Olds emblems.

Don sends


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: JUST STARTED
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at SMTPGATE
Date:    4/27/96 10:24 PM


At 02:56 PM 4/26/96 -0300, you wrote:

>        Back to Oldsmobile, is there anyone else who feels that Oldsmobile 
>needs to get back into the muscle cars as Chevy and Ford still are?  We 
>just need one special production rear wheel drive 442 using today's 
>technology.  I think we could run them all over but reality won't let it 
>ever happen will it?
   Check out what Aurora is doing in the road racing end of things. Olds
may once again be a force to be reckoned with.

------------------------------

From: "fursmand" <fursmand@smtpgate.avi.af.mil>
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 17:57:08 -0300
Subject: Re[4]: JUST STARTED 

Dink,
        Great idea!  Keep the ideas flowing.  I can't get out quick enough.

Don sends


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Re[2]: JUST STARTED
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at SMTPGATE
Date:    4/27/96 7:50 PM


> That makes me wonder my not start a Bar that showcases only 
> Oldsmobiles?  Maybe at first just one, then add as you go. Hmm, maybe 
> you could get loaners from some of us in the winter, would save some 
> storage costs :)
> 
> 
> Dink

Yeah, and after we scavange the engines out of Toranodos, we can use the 
interiors for booths!

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^. 
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-8007    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/ 
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 19:16:20 -0300
Subject: My "Older" car is newer!... Was Re: Olds History Center

> hey there...  we need some standard in declaring "what is old" and "what 
> is new" and the terms used to define this.
> 
> i saw a message saying about someone needing help on an "older" 
> oldsmobile...  i was looking carefully seeing if it is older (like my 47 
> olds).  Instead, i see "my 1960 olds...."   i say the "older" is around 1957 
> and prior vintage is pre-war design (up through and including 1948).
> 
> any other ideas about this?

	I've always thought anything over about 20 years is "older".  The 
usual standard for an "antique" car is 25 years, and over at the DMV, 
anything made before 1963 is "vintage" (and can get vintage 
plates...unfortunatly, you can only drive to shows) and anything made 
before 1930 is elligable for "Pioneer" plates.  Over at the credit 
union, if you want a car loan, anything made before 1987 is "older" and 
the interest jumps about 5% over a "newer" car (!!!).  I guess it's all 
relative.  
	At any rate, I still think my '60 is "older".  So does every 
parts store in town I go to when I'm  trying to find things like fuel 
pumps! (or just about anything else).  I always hear "Naw...we don't 
stock anything for a car that old...might be able to special order it if 
you car to leave your first born, though."  Gotta love this stuff!

		Scott
	1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 19:24:40 -0300
Subject: Ign. Resistors...was  Re: stalling

> That would be Chryslers, with the old white ceramic resistor mounted on
> the firewall with two wires connected via push-on connectors. When the
> connectors get tired or loose, the ignition cuts in and out. When the
> resistor burns through, the engine only fires while it's cranking, as
> you described. Old Chrysler owners -- er, owners of old Chryslers -- oh,
> never mind -- learned to carry a spare resistor in the glovebox.
> 
> >Or maybe GM cars don't do
> >that.  Or do they even have that resistor?  It's been a while since I've
> >done any under-hood stuff, and my memory is... uh... what were we talking
> >about?
> 

	My '60 has an ignition resistor that bolts to the intake manifold, 
and has wire running to the coil.  It's ceramic, with a little coiled 
wire in it.  No problems with is so far (knock on wood) since I have no 
idea where I would find a new one, and I'm not sure what year they 
stopped useing them.
	
		Scott
	1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 20:59:14 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: JUST STARTED

> >> Just for that, I'm going to entirely part out a pristine 1970 98
> >> Convertible, just so I can get, uh, that little rubber bumper thingee at the
> >> bottom inside of the passenger door.  I need one of those.
> >> 
> >> Dave Voorhis, Toros-R-Us
> >
> >WHAT!!!  That's a crime!  A crime, I say!
> >
> >Uhh... How much do want for the front bumper?
> 
> Er...  I was kidding.  (But you knew that. :)  
> 
> If I had a '70 98 Convertible, I'd be as proud of it as I am of my Toros.
> 
> Dave Voorhis, Toros forever.

Just my light-heart attempt to fight off that Toro Virus.  Which I don't
think is so much a virus as an possession, like "Invasion of the
Body Snatchers".  I can see it know...

  "What happened to Robert?  He came out of the garage mumbling something
   like, `It all makes sense... huge V8... long hood... front wheel drive...'"

  "My Gawd!  You didn't leave him in there alone with that Toronado, did you?"

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-8007    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v



 

------------------------------

From: "fursmand" <fursmand@smtpgate.avi.af.mil>
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 20:02:37 -0300
Subject: Questions about T400 

Does anyone know the difference between a 68 Buick GS Super Turbo 400 and a 
normal Turbo 400?  The reason I ask this is because I have a 68 GS Super 
Turbo 400 in my 76 Cutlass and the engine is still in my friends garage.  I 
hope.  But I have been in Italy for four years now and you know that time 
changes things.

Don sends

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 21:28:35 -0300
Subject: Re: Ign. Resistors...was  Re: stalling

> 
> 	My '60 has an ignition resistor that bolts to the intake manifold, 
> and has wire running to the coil.  It's ceramic, with a little coiled 
> wire in it.  No problems with is so far (knock on wood) since I have no 
> idea where I would find a new one, and I'm not sure what year they 
> stopped useing them.
> 	
> 		Scott
> 	1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

Would that be the same set-up the Accel SuperCoil uses?  A white ceramic
resister, one end to the coil, the other to the uh... distributor or
starter?  They may not be that hard to find.  I found a replacement
at a Discount Auto Parts.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-8007    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 21:43:13 -0300
Subject: stalling

If it stalls suddenly, that's most likely electrical. Here's an idea, since it
seems to go away quickly- wire an LED with oh about 1K resistor in series to
the coil + side, mount LED inside where you can see it all the time. When the
engine dies, quickly look at the LED, see if the coil is getting power or not.
I'm betting loose wire or broken wire on the ground side of the coil: coil to
dist'r, cxn to points, etc. Body ground? Check voltage between body [firewall[
and battery Neg [yes, NEG] terminal while everything is on and running.


- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 21:38:23 -0300
Subject: Vendors

Anybody looking for vendor phone #'s or addresses, there's a whole bunch on
Hemming's Motor News page --
    http://www.sover.net/~hemmings/catalogs/catpages/orderform.html

Also check out -- 
    http://www.rconcepts.com/beard/dragnet/vendors/restoration.html
and
    http://www.rconcepts.com/beard/dragnet/vendors/oldsmobile.html
for more.

- --
Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 21:47:07 -0300
Subject: stalling

Well, I've done everything I can think of...rewired the coil/distribitor
replaced the fuel filter, replaced the condensor on the coil and points.
Took the alternator out to have it checked.  It was bad, the guy at the auto
parts store said all the diodes were shorted out and it was only producing
about 8 amps.  Got a new alternator and voltage regulator (thought that
might solve the "GEN" light problem; it didn't).  The points, plugs, wires,
coil, cap, rotor, etc are all new.  The fuel pump is OK.  Checked fuel lines
(vapor lock?) -- everything seems fine.  Don't think it's vapor lock,
anyway.  It's happened a couple times right after startup in the morning
(engine still cold).  Last thing (I think...) is to drop the tank.  Guess
what I'll be doing tomorrow?  I think it's some water in the tank...  :^(

 
- --
Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 21:51:07 -0300
Subject: Re: stalling

At 09:43 PM 4/27/96 -0300, you wrote:
>If it stalls suddenly, that's most likely electrical. 

 Body ground? Check voltage between body [firewall[
>and battery Neg [yes, NEG] terminal while everything is on and running.
>

]
Haven't checked body ground.  I'll have to do that before I drop the tank.
The rest of the wiring is new now (coil > dist, coil > points, etc...).
- --
Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: glenn connors <gpc442@buffnet.net>
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 13:37:10 -0300
Subject: synthetic oil

I've heard from a couple people that have heard from a couple people that
synthetic oil should not be used during the break in of a newly rebuilt
motor. I'd like to know of some factual information on the pros and cons of
putting synthetic oil in a new motor.   I'm really trying to build this
455ci. right and if starting with synthetic oil is a mistake, I'd really
want to know.  It hasn't been run yet and other than hand cranking to check
oil pressure obviously it wouldn't be a big deal to dump it and save it if
that's the right thing to do.  If anyone has some knowlege on this I would
appreciate hearing about it.

Glenn
'69 4-4-2
  

     /*
    / *
   /  *
  ____

------------------------------

From: "Dink" <heinle@jake.udayton.edu>
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 23:56:57 -0300
Subject: Re: synthetic oil

> I've heard from a couple people that have heard from a couple people that
> synthetic oil should not be used during the break in of a newly rebuilt
> motor.

I've heard that the rings don't  set, or whatever rings do. 

But the new Pontiac Firehawk's and Camaro SS come with Syth from the 
factory, so they must know something we don't.  Try mobil's hompage 
for more info.
http://www.mobil.com/mobil_1/mobil1.html

Or there FAQ
http://www.mobil.com/mobil_1/faq.html

Hope some of this helps.

Dink

!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~
Dink           Dayton, Ohio
80 Olds Delta 88 Royale  MSD, K&N, Dynomax, etc..
http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
- --

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 18:50:17 -0300
Subject: Re: Ign. Resistors...was  Re: stalling

Scott R Clark wrote:
> 
> > That would be Chryslers, with the old white ceramic resistor mounted on
>
> >
> 
>         My '60 has an ignition resistor that bolts to the intake manifold,
> and has wire running to the coil.  It's ceramic, with a little coiled
> wire in it.  No problems with is so far (knock on wood) since I have no
> idea where I would find a new one, and I'm not sure what year they
> stopped useing them.
> 
>                 Scott
>         1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

My 1962 Jetfire has a ballist resistor and hasn't had any trouble yet.  
I have seen 1963 Jetfire's with them.  Olds must have gotten a better 
idea later as my 1968 4-4-2 doesn't use one.

Bill Culp  '62 Jetfire  '67 Toronado  '68 4-4-2

------------------------------

From: rmv@ix.netcom.com (rmv)
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 01:20:09 -0300
Subject: Re: Mysterious paper (broadcast sheet)

>	I found a pair of thoes under the rotting seat in my '60.  I 
>recognized a couple of the numbers from the vin and body tag, but most 
>I'd never seen before.  When I wrote the Olds History Center, I 
>included all that info, but unfortunatly they said they couldn't 
>decipher them :(  Not really sure who could.  Any ideas?

Maybe they are interior trim codes, similar to what is located on the 
fender tag.  Could you post the codes in question, along with the model 
and model year (1960).  I have an old Oldsmobile parts catalog (c. 1961) 
that lists a lot of these codes.

Mike Van Auken
'79 Starfire GT
rmv@ix.netcom.com

------------------------------

From: bryce_smith@442.com (Bryceman)
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 03:08:49 -0300
Subject: Re: Road Trip 

>than a half-mile later, what's this? A good-looking (as far as I can tell
>at 60 mph) '66 Delta 88 2-door! Parked out front, plated, a driver! On
>the way back, it was there again, but turned around. Someone's driving
>this one. Looked real pretty from the road... that metallic blue-green
>that's getting popular again, with a vinyl roof. Neat aluminum panel
>between the taillights with the eggcrate overlay over the lenses. Hmmm...

Hmmm 2 doors, EGG CRATE Tail Lights!... That sounds like a '66 Starfire to
me. Cool.


 EXCESSIVE IRON rules the road!
'65 442
'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender
 bryceman@442.com
 www.442.com

------------------------------

From: "Dal Allan" <dal_allan@mcimail.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 03:59:04 -0300
Subject: Convertible_top 

Help needed from those of you who have worked with convertible tops.

Living in California means seldom having to put the top up. Even in the 
middle of winter the days can be warm enough to tempt one to drive around 
and until the sun drops, it does not get cold enough to put the top up. That 
means about the only time that the top goes up is when the car gets washed.

Since a hobby car only gets to go 'outside' when the weather is fine, it 
seldom needs to be washed, but last weekend it seemed like about time to 
wash our 67 Olds Cutlass convertible. Jump in the car, pull outside, push 
the switch Up and 'thunk'. Hmmmm. Try the switch Down and 'thunk'. Hmmmm. 

Its got to be the wiring, right? 

Being a thirty year old car with degraded connections probably means reduced 
current flow and not enough power for the motor to turn over. The fix that 
appealed was to buy a 30V relay and run a fused wire directly from the 
battery to provide full current when the relay is energized. 

It was a great plan, pity it was to solve the wrong problem. 

The shop manual talks about working with the pump with the seats still in 
place, but since a new wire had to be run I decided to remove the rear seat, 
back and side panels. Before removing the drivers seat to run the new wire 
under the carpet, a little voice said to verify the assumption. 

 - Run a fused wire directly to the motor with an in-line switch
 - Press switch and suddenly there is a flash of light
 - What? 
 - Check the fuse and its black!
 - Check the fuse rating, its 20A.
 - Okay, time to find a 30A. There is always something available in the 
   workshop, it just takes a long time because everything is disorganized. 
 - Install 30A fuse.
 - Press switch and hold breath. 
 - Thunk.

Uh oh, so what does a 'thunk' mean? It seems power is not the problem so it 
must be something else. 

Okay, let's check the lines. 

They're empty! 

Not a drop of fluid in sight. Check for leak, check for evidence of a leak. 

Brake fluid has to be one of the nastiest things around. A splash of it can 
ruin a brand new paint job. It can destroy upholstery. Based on this ability 
to destroy almost everything in a car, one would expect a leak to leave a 
trail of decimation that was easy to spot. No such luck, no sign anywhere of 
fluid loss yet the lines have no fluid in them. 

Hope you all enjoyed the lengthy essay above but now comes the part where 
yours truly is looking for advice. 

 - Does a thunk mean the motor is trying but the lack of fluid is causing an 
   interlock?
 - Does a thunk mean the motor is near death so a full transplant is needed? 

If a different motor is needed:

 - Does anybody have any tips on how to get the old motor out? 
 - Those grommets must be pretty inflexible by now, so is it simpler just to 
   cut them off? 

In either case, the old or the new motor is going to need fluid added to the 
lines so assuming the motor is operational, lets go to the fluid stage. Any 
car which does not see regular usage around here gets a transfusion of DOT 5 
silicon fluid to eliminate rusty wheel cylinders, screwed up calipers and 
blown brake lines. One of the other nice things about DOT 5 is that it does 
not attack paint or vinyl or.... You can probably guess the next questions: 

 - Since DOT 5 works so well for brake lines, is there any reason why it 
   would not work well for the convertible top? 
 - DOT 5 is 'slicker' than DOT 3 and escapes all but the tightest fittings, 
   so will this pose a problem because the reservoir uses a plug?
 - Before using DOT 5 in brakes, the lines have to be cleaned with alcohol 
   and it is wise to replace the wheel cylinders and calipers at the same 
   time. If DOT 5 is used, am I looking at cylinder replacement as well? 

Everything in the car back there looks original. I bought this car from the 
original owner and it came with two file folders of maintenance records. 
nothing jumped out as being for cylinder or motor repair. 

Background information. The top on the Olds has always moved slowly relative 
to the one on the 72 GS455 (the 'other' car). A check of the lines at the 
back of the trunk showed there was some air in them, so the slow speed was 
attributed to that. Last week I check the GS and there is air in those lines 
too, so maybe pistons should be replaced as well. Then again, maybe the 67s 
had slower operating tops than 72s, because the action was smooth and it 
does not seem too likely that both would be failing the same way.

 - Does the slow operation of the top last year suggest the cylinders need 
   replacing? 
 - Since I am into pain already, would it be wise to replace the cylinders 
   anyway? 

Question on the hydraulic lines come to mind. 

 - Should the lines be replaced whenever work is done on the system? 
 - Were the lines always stiff and unyielding, or have they become stiff and 
   brittle with age so that using them is inviting trouble? 

Price considerations come into this, but confusion set in when I grabbed the 
closest Year One catalog. Look up index, convertible motors are on p150 but 
p150 has all transmission parts. Huh? Check the index again, and convertible 
cylinders are on p150. No way. Okay, time to flip pages, and then on p232 
discover the right components and suffer a near coronary at the cost:

          Power Top motors        AM700   $179
          Pair Lift Cylinders     AM647P  $275
          Fluid line kit          AM701   $ 95     $549

Then I realize I'm looking at the Skylark/GS book (our other convertible is 
a 72 GS455) so go back and pull down the Oldsmobile book. The index is 
correct and finding the right page is no problem, but what a surprise.

          Power Top motors        AM700   $159
          Pair Lift Cylinders     AM647P  $239
          Fluid line kit          AM701   $ 80     $478

Same part numbers, different catalogs (numbers R214 and R314 respectively). 
If I understand Year One's coding correctly, then these are both 1994 books. 
Yeah, okay, I admit it, I have not bought much from Year One lately. Life 
has been kinda calm around here since the suspension and brake overhaul on 
the Olds.

So, two catalogs in the same year show a 15% differential in price (I'll bet 
the high price is the one that is more current). I'm also willing to bet 
that the 1996 catalog has even higher prices. If anyone has had good 
experiences with other suppliers, I'd be interested. 

In the Olds catalog, Year One states 'this unit mounts differently than the 
original, however, original mounting can be retained by swapping the 
reservoir. Wiring and instructions included.' 

Let's see now, buy a new motor, pull it apart, throw away one end and 
replace with the old end. Hey, for that kind of money I would expect the 
right part fitting the right way, so lets go for another question. 

 - Does anybody have experience with getting their unit rebuilt?

Something on both catalogs gave me pause to wonder. Highlighted in a box is 
'Power top hydraulic systems use Dexron II transmission fluid'. 

Quoting from the 1967 Oldsmobile Body Manual 'fill reservoir unit with GM 
Hydraulic Brake Fluid Super No. 11 or its equivalent'. 

Now matters get even more interesting:

 - If I don't replace the cylinders, what fluid do I use? 
 - If I add Dexron, will it mix with the remnants of brake fluid that used 
   to be in there? 
 - Am I being forced into a cylinder replacement anyway? 

Questions about transmission fluid:

 - Does Dexron lift paint and destroy vinyl like brake fluid? 
 - Does Dexron absorb water like brake fluid? Water absorption is not a 
   problem with the hydraulic power top because it is a sealed system, so 
   this question is pure curiosity. 

Phew!

Sorry about this taking so long folks, but more and more things kept coming 
to mind while typing, and there have been breaks for dinner and looking up 
the catalogs. 

Any help will be appreciated. 

Dal

P.S. Has anybody out there got a manual top? I've never seen one operating 
but there are springs to help. Does it take two people to put it up, or is 
it easy to operate from one side? The mechanism is described in the Body 
manual but it does not mention lowering/raising procedures. 

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 08:49:51 -0300
Subject: Re: Convertible_top

Let's see what I can do on this - lots of stuff here.

My first question would deal with the symptom. A "thunk" and not a 
"whirrr"? Almost sounds like a relay problem within the pump motor. I 
understand that from '68 and up they used a separate relay. My '64 had 
top problems when I got it (bad hose) but the pump would still "whirrr" 
when you tried it. And you have no fluid... hmmmm, not sure on that.

Have you tried simply to fill the pump with fluid and give that a try? 
Once I had my hose problem fixed that's all it took. Cycle the thing many 
times back and forth, and eventually there's movement. I think that's 
what I'd try first, though of course one wonders where the old fluid 
went. At least that would give you a hint if the stuff was being pumped 
thru the system and escaping somewhere.

As for the fluid itself, mine now uses trans fluid. A reddish oil, 
harmless to paint et al. I know the book does say to use brake fluid, and 
presumably it did at one point. I doubt if my system was ever purged 
fully, and so far there are no ill effects. I would certainly recommend 
using trans fluid over brake fluid just for the relative safety if it 
leaks.

The original hoses are nylon perhaps, or some sort of see-thru plastic. 
They are extremely stiff. When mine let go, I didn't bother with buying a 
replacement from one of the old-car suppliers but had a set made up 
locally by a hydraulics shop. These use the more typical rubberized hose 
and are much more flexible. Cost was about the same as it turned out. Use 
your own judgment on this.

I have just received the latest Year One catalog, #R335. Their current 
prices:

Motor/pump:	199
Cylinders	280/pair
Hose kit	109

That adds up to $588. Grommets are in there for $2.50 each, what a deal. 
Re. the pump, it states that "Modifications might be needed to make this 
pump fit. This pump uses a 4-bolt mount; some cars originally had a 3-bolt 
mount. This is a universal replacement and is not recommended for a 
concours restoration."

My car had the cylinders replaced a few years back by the previous owner. 
They came from a company in the L.A. area called Convertible Service,
5126-H Walnut Grove Ave., San Gabriel, Ca., 800-333-1140. I don't have any
current prices from them. The place that seems to be the source for most
of this stuff is Hydro-E-Lectric, 48 Appleton Rd., Auburn, Mass
(800-343-4261;  info line 508-832-3081). Not much cheaper, but a little;
their ad says pumps start at $169, cylinders $120 each, hose sets $90. I'd
sooner deal with them on something like this since it's their main
business and they probably know more about it than a place like Year One. 
I think either of these places can rebuild your existing pump so you could 
avoid the "universal" replacement if you need to, or likely a local place 
would be able to rebuild it too. Most hydraulic places are very 
versatile, I've found.

That's about all I know. When mine was disabled originally you could 
manhandle the top up and down with a helper; I suspect that while the 
spring-loaded manual top might require less effort, I doubt it is easy 
given the size of the thing. Good luck on this one, and keep us posted.


Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 16:36:12 -0300
Subject: Cheap Stuff That Works

Every once in a while, you bump into something cheap that, to your 
amazement, works great...

I was in the Dollar Store a few weeks ago and saw that car wax that is 
supposed to have pigment in it to fix the scrathces on your car.  I'd 
seen it advertised on TV but figured it was just another scam.  So when I 
saw it for a buck, I thought. "What the hell".  So I got a tub of black 
for Jeannie's L*ncoln (which had a lot of little scratches that shows the 
gray primer through the black paint).

I was getting it ready for the trip (PA/wedding) yesterday and I finally 
got around to trying it.  Now I can't swear that any of the other colors 
are any good, but the black worked GREAT.  Covered scratches like crazy. 
The lid says and the applicator sponge says "Turtle Wax" on it. (?)  You 
guy's might want to check your local discount outlets and give it a try.

        MAGIC MATCH 
        Plastone Company
        PO Box 594
        Chicago IL 60499
        Stock #T386-1


The 66 Toro and Mike

- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #160
********************************

