
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

oldsmobile-digest           Monday, 4 March 1996        Volume 01 : Number 109


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tony <3CQ9DELBALSO@vms.csd.mu.edu>
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 1996 21:20:45 -0400
Subject: Small Block Camshaft

Hi,

I am going to order a camshaft for my 350 in the next week or so.  I've got my
eye on the Mondello 16-18 hydralic.  The engine is going to be mild, number 8
heads (unless I find a pair of 5 or 6's in the next 2 weeks), small dish
pistons (stock high perf from 72, cast aluminum), and will be shaving some
material off the heads (need to know the maximum allowable).  The crank is
cast stocker, stock oil pump (from recomendation of engine builder).  Anyone
have any experience with the 16-18 camshaft?  My main concern is needing to
shave the heads, and then needing adjustable pushrods or rockers.  I may or
may not use an eldebrock Performer intake, but Will be using a quadrajet.  The
tranny will be a 350 (installing simple shift kit from B&M) and the rear end
is stock posi from 84 (real high gears, ie high top speed, low acceleration).
Any experience regarding amount of heads to shave, whether to go with
adjustable rockers or pushrods would be appreciated.  Thanks Tony

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 1996 21:27:56 -0400
Subject: Re: 394 block/engine

Journal size is a two edged sword.  One one hand the extra thickness will
provide extra stability and contribute to the crank's strength.  On the
other hand you get excessive "bearing speed" with larger bearings meaning
that as RPM increases, the rate at which the journal is turning in
relation to the bearing becomes very very fast...and this leads to oiling
problems.  Crank construction material will pretty much make up the
difference in strength between large and small journals, so if you look at
aftermarket engines such as pro stock bigblocks, they're running pretty
small journals (maybe 2.75 or so) compared to the Olds 3", but are made
of higher strength materials, allowing them to spin darn near 10000rpm.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: rolf flockoi <flockoi@magick.net>
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 1996 23:07:47 -0400
Subject: 394 engine

Thanks everyone for your response. Really neat---

As it's apparent, I am being used as the middle guy {Hey Dad, would you do
something for me?) and I now believe I have my facts straight.

The engine he has in the boat is a 324 and not a 371 as I thought. What he
wants is either a 371 or a 394 (this makes sense as to the difference in the
crank). So, if anyone knows where one can be located, I would like to hear
from them.

He had another question. His vacuum advance is giving him trouble and he was
wondering if there is a mechanical advance distributor available?

Thanks again,
Rolf

------------------------------

From: <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 07:50:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Small Block Camshaft

>I am going to order a camshaft for my 350 in the next week or so.  I've
>got my
>eye on the Mondello 16-18 hydralic.  The engine is going to be mild, number
8
>heads (unless I find a pair of 5 or 6's in the next 2 weeks), small dish
>pistons (stock high perf from 72, cast aluminum), and will be shaving some
>material off the heads (need to know the maximum allowable).  The crank is
>cast
>stocker, stock oil pump (from recomendation of engine builder).  Anyone have
>any experience with the 16-18 camshaft?  My main concern is needing to shave
>the heads, and then needing adjustable pushrods or rockers.  I may or may
not
>use an eldebrock Performer intake, but Will be using a quadrajet.  The
tranny
>will be a 350 (installing simple shift kit from B&M) and the rear end is
>stock
>posi from 84 (real high gears, ie high top speed, low acceleration).  Any
>experience regarding amount of heads to shave, whether to go with adjustable
>rockers or pushrods would be appreciated.

Lots for discussion here...

Tony,

Your pick for a camshaft (16-20) is for towing and motorhomes. Based on
what I see, I think you should consider the 18-20. I am running that
profile in my 72 smallblock and it idles just fine. When you buy your
cam, you need to buy the kit too, using old lifters with the new cam
profile will likely lead to premature cam and/or lifter failure. If
that happens it will occur sooner rather than later. As far as heads
go, if you shave off more than .030" you must check piston to valve
clearance. You did not state why you are having the heads shaved, I
presume they are warped (are you having the decks checked for warpage
too?). You also realize that shaving the heads will increase your
compression ratio, swapping different heads will also either raise or
lower your ratio. You will need to use adjustable pushrods since you
are having the heads shaved. The manifold is fine as long as it is not
the Performer RPM, the regular Performer should be a good fit based on
your note. Stay with your stamped rockers, better yet buy Mondellos...
I would certainly pick up a Toronado oilpan, a Mondello oilpump
(SP-775) and the R-100 Oil restrictor kit, these items will be
relatively cheap but aiding in lots of longevity for your engine
Good Luck,
Mike



<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Michael R. Hall               Ortonville, Michigan
E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com
Owner: 1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

------------------------------

From: Rocketeer <bparker@nmsu.edu>
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 08:40:47 -0400
Subject: '70 442 convertible

Well add one more car to our list.

Just picked up a loaded '70 442 convertible. Matador Red, black interior
with buckets and console, power disc brakes, power steering, power windows,
power driver seat, Rallye Pac, 3.23 posi rear, and A/C.

Currently equipped with the original block, but has a mixed set of heads,
one is a "G" code. It's a little rough around the edges needing
patch panels in both the fenders and quarters. Solid trunk floor and
floorboards.

In the quest for speed it has a Torker intake, double pumper Holley,
Hooker headers with glasspacks and a really trick set of neon orange spark
plug wires. At least it has a new set of Radial T/A's, even if they are on
a set of J.C. Whittney chrome wheels. All of this stuff will soon be history.

All of my experience is with the early cars, can anyone tell me if the '70
with A/C and P/S would have the notched valve covers (I'm thinking it
would), and does the '70-'71 big block optioned Vista Cruiser have the same
air cleaner as the non Ram-Air 442?

Boyd

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 10:15:15 -0400
Subject: Re: '70 442 convertible

On Mon, 4 Mar 1996, Rocketeer wrote:

> Well add one more car to our list.
>
> Just picked up a loaded '70 442 convertible. Matador Red, black interior
> with buckets and console, power disc brakes, power steering, power windows,
> power driver seat, Rallye Pac, 3.23 posi rear, and A/C.

You lucky !@#$%$#@! That's my all-time dream car! Congrats! But how can
someone have a gorgeous '66 convert *and* a '70? Life's not fair...

> In the quest for speed it has a Torker intake, double pumper Holley,
> Hooker headers with glasspacks and a really trick set of neon orange spark
> plug wires. At least it has a new set of Radial T/A's, even if they are on
> a set of J.C. Whittney chrome wheels. All of this stuff will soon be
history.

Well, maybe you're not so lucky...  ;-)

> All of my experience is with the early cars, can anyone tell me if the '70
> with A/C and P/S would have the notched valve covers (I'm thinking it
> would), and does the '70-'71 big block optioned Vista Cruiser have the same
> air cleaner as the non Ram-Air 442?

Don't think so on the air cleaner. My friend Brian's '71 SX had a
different stock aircleaner than a non-Ram 4-4-2 until he picked one up at
a swap meet. I think the difference is that the regular 455 had a single
snorkel and the 4-4-2 had a dual-snorkel setup....


Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: proietto@dow.on.doe.ca (Proietto, F.)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 10:16:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Small Block Camshaft

I ordered the 16-18 from Mondello also. The cam works well. The main reason
I went with this cam was I that I didn't have to change the stock torque
converter. The only thing I would advise would be to also order the spring
set that pairs with the cam. A good set of H-lifters (Mondello can give you
those also). I have #5 heads with the heat rises plugged. Got the plugs from
Mondello. In effect I got the entire cam package. One problem I'm
experiencing is lifter noise. Quite a bit infact. I installed the original
length push rods but i don't thing they can handel the extra lift the cam
has plus the fact that I used the fel-pro thick head gasket which increased
the height. I will have to go with adjustable push rods later this spring.
Just pondering if I should order them from Mondello or just buy them here in
my city, Toronto, Ontario, Canada.

Does anyone have a Mondello catalogue, check his price for a set of
adjustable push rods for a 350 using the 16-18 cam?

Regards
Fernando Proietto
'72 442



>Hi,
>
>I am going to order a camshaft for my 350 in the next week or so.  I've got
my >eye on the Mondello 16-18 hydralic.  The engine is going to be mild,
number 8 >heads (unless I find a pair of 5 or 6's in the next 2 weeks), small
dish >pistons (stock high perf from 72, cast aluminum), and will be shaving
some >material off the heads (need to know the maximum allowable).  The crank
is cast >stocker, stock oil pump (from recomendation of engine builder).
Anyone have >any experience with the 16-18 camshaft?  My main concern is
needing to shave >the heads, and then needing adjustable pushrods or rockers.
I may or may not >use an eldebrock Performer intake, but Will be using a
quadrajet.  The tranny >will be a 350 (installing simple shift kit from B&M)
and the rear end is stock >posi from 84 (real high gears, ie high top speed,
low acceleration).  Any >experience regarding amount of heads to shave,
whether to go with adjustable >rockers or pushrods would be appreciated.
Thanks >Tony > > > > > Regards Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 10:27:37 -0400
Subject: Re: A hearbreaking moment

In a message dated 96-03-03 10:31:41 EST, you write:

>>The trouble is the distance; I'm in NY, but would want to do the work in
>>Connecticut. I don't know whether transporting the motor or even the whole
>>car would be cost-efficient over finding a 403 locally to rebuild.  I have
>>the AAA Plus plan, which gives me 100 miles of towing before I start to
pay,
>>but that would only get me part-way here, and they'd get suspicious of
>>repeated calls by the time I got to Scranton. I wonder what a freight
>company
>>would charge?
>
>What about going to U-Haul, renting one of those automotive tow dolleys (the
>funky little 2-wheel thangs) and dragging that sucker back to NY/CT?  I bet
>it'd be cheaper than towing/shipping/etc., plus you get the WHOLE car!

Not a bad idea at all; what does U-haul charge? Do those things just hook up
to a bolt-on hitch from U-Haul as well? Any experience on this kind of thing?
I'd be hooking it to a 403-powered Electra, but with a 2.41 rear, I think
towing it through the hills of Pennsylvania might make my rebuild immediately
necessary (tranny will need some work as well!).

Good suggestion, though. I'll look into it.

------------------------------

From: bespes1@dakota.isd77.k12.mn.us (Brian Espeset)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 10:56:42 -0400
Subject: Re: 394 block/engine

>My son has a classic (50's version) boat which has a 371 in it and has 4
>carbs, cam and pistons. Well, the bottom end won't take the strain on the
>mains and he wants to find a 394 block  ('58-'61?} to replace it. I am
>wondering if anyone has one and it would be nice if it was on the West Coast
>(for freight purposes)! If anyone has any info on this I would sure
appreciate >it, so if you email me, please include your telephone number so he
can talk >with you. Thanks. > >Rolf >Klamath Falls, Oregon > >PS. While
looking through the motor manual, we were curious about a J2 engine >which was
mfg for only one year. What was it's application for?

I have quite abit of experience with 371's  if you have any questions feel
free to call Brian Espeset at 507 388 3130

Technology Education

------------------------------

From: bryce_smith@442.com (Bryceman)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 11:02:33 -0400
Subject: Re: A hearbreaking moment

>Not a bad idea at all; what does U-haul charge? Do those things just hook up
>to a bolt-on hitch from U-Haul as well? Any experience on this kind of thing?
>I'd be hooking it to a 403-powered Electra, but with a 2.41 rear, I think
>towing it through the hills of Pennsylvania might make my rebuild immediately
>necessary (tranny will need some work as well!).

There is a picture of my S-10 hitched to the 442 & car dolly on the Olds Page.
It is at the bottom of the "Brycemobiles" page. This might give you a better
idea of how the whole rig works.


'65 442
'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender
bryceman@442.com
www.442.com

------------------------------

From: bryce_smith@442.com (Bryceman)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 10:58:21 -0400
Subject: Re: A hearbreaking moment

>Not a bad idea at all; what does U-haul charge? Do those things just hook up
>to a bolt-on hitch from U-Haul as well? Any experience on this kind of thing?

I pulled both of my Oldses with a "car dolly / T Trailer". I pulled the '66
D88 behind a rented full-size Chevy truck with big V-6. That one took me six
hours to make a 4.5 hour trip. Also pulled my '65 442 home with one behind my
mule S-10 with small V-6 Cripes! (5.5 hours). Both trips were white-knucle all
of the way because of the weight of those cars and lack of weight/power of tow
vehicles. It costs about 35-40 bucks a day to rent the car dolly. When using a
bumper hitch they have a tounge weight limit of like 200 lbs. I was well over
this limit with my S-10, but had no real trouble.

If you are pulling the Olds behind another Full-sized Olds with V-8, you
should be in good shape. Just make sure the brakes on the tow vehicle are in
top condition as the biggest challenge to this kind of towing is getting the
whole rig stopped. All in all it is a pretty good way to go, much better than
a tow bar and much cheaper than a trailer.


'65 442
'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender
bryceman@442.com
www.442.com

------------------------------

From: "Shawn M. Twomey" <stwom@ctp.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 11:18:03 -0400
Subject: 455 -> '84 H/O

>Would there be any *major* problems putting a 455
>into an '84 Hurst Olds [used to have a 307]?

Has anyone out there actually done it?  I have not, but I've talked to a
couple of folks who have.  Basically, it bolts right in, there was one thing
a guy had to space out an inch or so (good memory, eh?), but even
accessories like A/C should be no problem.  However, if you want headers on
this car, they run outside the fender wall a little and you won't be able to
turn as sharply.  I'm not too sure why this wouldn't happen with a small
block, but again I haven't done it so I'm just relying on other individual's
experiences.

__________________________________________________________________________
Shawn M. Twomey     |  "No!  Try NOT!  Do, or do not.  There is no try."
stwom@ctp.com       |  -Yoda
__________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 11:39:07 -0400
Subject: Re: A hearbreaking moment

>It's got a
>403 which is pretty strong, although it's very slowly leaking oil
>somewhere out of the left side (looking at the front of the car.) I
>haven't had the time to figure out exactly where, it's been doing it
>since I bought it in August.  One of the cylinders must have bad rings
>as it burns some oil and fouls the plug to the point of uselessness
>every 6 months.

Oh, hey, I had a second thought about this part...

The problem might be external -- I have worked on (way too many) leaky
old engines where the oil leakage from the rocker cover gaskets tends
to settle in the spark plug recesses and generally muck up everything
in the area, such as the plug wires. The old, oil-soaked plug wires
then leak the firing voltage out through the insulation and the plug
doesn't fire. The non-firing plug then, of course, becomes fouled with
oil inside, somebody pulls it and declares that the rings are bad.

Could be that the rings _are_ bad, of course, but it's cheaper and
does no harm to clean the outside of the engine really thoroughly,
and pop in a new set of plug wires if you can't remember the last
time that was done, and see where you're at at that point...
- --
Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: J.Easton@zds.com (Jeff Easton)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 11:43:59 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: '70 442 convertible


> All of my experience is with the early cars, can anyone tell me if the '70
> with A/C and P/S would have the notched valve covers (I'm thinking it
> would), and does the '70-'71 big block optioned Vista Cruiser have the same
> air cleaner as the non Ram-Air 442?

Don't think so on the air cleaner. My friend Brian's '71 SX had a
different stock aircleaner than a non-Ram 4-4-2 until he picked one up at
a swap meet. I think the difference is that the regular 455 had a single
snorkel and the 4-4-2 had a dual-snorkel setup....

     My stock 442 has a single snorkel.  It has a slightly wider mouth
     than the other non-442's I've seen.  Its a subtle difference...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

     -Jeff Easton       j.easton@zds.com
     1970 442  4-Speed


------------------------------

From: scheribe@students.uiuc.edu
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 12:09:43 -0400
Subject: 4bl for 231 v6

Does anyone know if there exists, and if so where I can find a 4 barrel carb
and intake  for an '81 Cutlass with a 231 Buick V6?

------------------------------

From: J.Easton@zds.com (Jeff Easton)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 12:10:57 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: A hearbreaking moment

>What about going to U-Haul, renting one of those automotive tow dolleys (the
>funky little 2-wheel thangs) and dragging that sucker back to NY/CT?  I bet
>it'd be cheaper than towing/shipping/etc., plus you get the WHOLE car!

Not a bad idea at all; what does U-haul charge? Do those things just hook up
to a bolt-on hitch from U-Haul as well? Any experience on this kind of thing?
I'd be hooking it to a 403-powered Electra, but with a 2.41 rear, I think
towing it through the hills of Pennsylvania might make my rebuild immediately
necessary (tranny will need some work as well!).

     The bad thing about U-Haul is the hassle you get from their "expert".

     When I moved from Michigan to Illinois last year I trailered my 442
     here behind my Yukon.  I had to argue with the U-Haul counter person
     that my truck (350ci, trailer package, class 3 hitch...) could pull it
     on their "auto transport" trailer.  They claimed it weighed too much.

     Next time I'll tell 'em I'm pulling a Yugo.  :-)

     -Jeff Easton       j.easton@zds.com
     1970 442  4-Speed

------------------------------

From: William Ansell <wansell@lynx.dac.neu.edu>
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 12:38:53 -0400
Subject: Re: 4bl for 231 v6

A customer I once had, Had an 84 Bonniville with a 4.1 4bbl. This motor
Looked exactly like a 3.8 231. The carb and intake were stock from the
factory. I don't know if this helps but it might be worth looking into.
- -Bill (84' Hurst/Olds)

------------------------------

From: david.chontofalsky@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 12:42:39 -0400
Subject: Re: 4bl for 231 v6

Look for an early 80's-late 70's cyl Electra or Riveria.  4bbl was standard on
these 6 cyl models

Does anyone know if there exists, and if so where I can find a 4 barrel carb
and intake  for an '81 Cutlass with a 231 Buick V6?

------------------------------

From: Sandy Stewart <WASTEWART@gov.pe.ca>
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 12:54:22 -0400
Subject: gas tanks

The gas guage on my 72 442 was swinging back and forth slightly, as if
the gas was sloshing around in the tank.  I removed the tank and tank
meter.  The tank had sustained a nasty dent sometime in its travels, and
the baffle was loose.  This may have allowed the fuel to slosh around,
causing the guage to fluctuate.  Possibly the tank meter could be faulty
as well.  (I have a spare NOS meter on hand in case it is the culprit).

Someone suggested cutting a hole in the top of the tank to allow access
to bang out the dent and weld the baffle securely in place, then weld or
solder the top piece back in place (the cut marks won't be visible once
the tank is reinstalled).  Has anyone had any experience withhtis type of
repair?  Would Mig welding work, or would solder be better?

Another option would be to obtain a good used or after market tank.  I
have seen repro tanks fro sale by various Olds vendors.  Does anyone
know whether these fit/function and look like the originals or whther they
are of good quality?

"Tanks" in advance for any advice!

Sandy Stewart              WAStewart@gov.pe.ca
Prince Edward Island
Canada

68 Supreme
72 Supreme
72 W30
93 Ciera

------------------------------

From: <edison3@gato.cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 08:06:53 -0400
Subject: Re: gas tanks

We repaired a tank on an old jeep by welding -- it worked out fine.

JUST MAKE SURE YOU VENTILATE THE H*LL OUT OF
THE TANK BEFORE YOU TRY WELDING OR YOU WON'T
HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE!

The 66 Toro and Mike


Michael R. Frederick, CEO
EDIson3, Inc.
Tampa, Forida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: <edison3@gato.cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 08:10:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Re[2]: A hearbreaking moment

Reminds me of the time the U-Haul guy told me my wiring was
screwed-up because he couldn't get his little adapter lamp to light.

Of course, he has holding it in mid-air with only a brake wire
attached and no ground!  DUH!


The 66 Toro and Mike

Michael R. Frederick, CEO
EDIson3, Inc.
Tampa, Forida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 13:25:09 -0400
Subject: Re: gas tanks

>JUST MAKE SURE YOU VENTILATE THE H*LL OUT OF
>THE TANK BEFORE YOU TRY WELDING OR YOU WON'T
>HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE!

Yeah... I used to volunteer for car repair at the regional mega-church
near here, and we pulled a tank out of an old Regal for repairs one
day. Filled it with water, did the welding, drained it, sloshed the
alcohol drier around inside, and put the tank aside to dry until the
next morning.

Next morning rolls around, one of the guys retrieves the tank, then
gets an idea in his head to do some touch-up work on it with the torch.
Moments after he starts in on it...  Kah-WHONKKKK!!!! The alcohol fumes
ignite inside and blow the tank out like a balloon. Mercifully, the
metal holds together in one piece, and seating a strategically-placed,
somewhat-porky employee on it compresses the sides of the tank back to
its original shape. We dodged a _big_ bullet (or shrapnel) that day...
- --
Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 11:12:40 -0400
Subject: Re: A hearbreaking moment

>After months of devoted service, I think my '77 Delta 88 is about
>at the end of it's life - with me anyway.  2 weeks ago it didn't pass
>PA safety inspection, and as if by clockwork, the day the sticker
>expired (yesterday) the starter stopped working.

Bummer.

>I imagine it is a
>wiring problem somewhere, as there isn't so much as a "clunk" when I
>turn the key, but all the other electrical equipment works fine.

Right, I'd check both ends of both battery cables, and in fact _all_
the connections at the starter, because most likely what's happening
is that the starter solenoid isn't energizing. Grubby/loose connections
will be enough for that. Has it been very cold recently? The cold can
chill the grease and dirt, making it hard for the solenoid to close the
main contacts to the starter (that missing "clunk"). I've had personal
experience crawling under a '73 Nova with a lug wrench to thump on the
starter and get it cranking in severely cold weather.

>I'd
>really like to get underneath and figure out what's up, but I really
>don't have the tools or time to play and solve the problem (just got a
>new job which is a little more important right now :).  Not to
>mention the money either.

Well, fair enough, if you haven't got time, it would have to wait until
you did, although at that point I would "spend" my own time checking the
connections before paying somebody else to do it. (Uh, no flame intended;
that sounded a little harsh...)

>I'd like to keep it moving for the next two
>weeks until I move into my new apartment, so if anyone can point me in
>the direction where I should start looking for a solution, I'd
>appreciate it.

Okay, see above...

>It's got a
>403 which is pretty strong, although it's very slowly leaking oil
>somewhere out of the left side (looking at the front of the car.) I
>haven't had the time to figure out exactly where, it's been doing it
>since I bought it in August.

Usual places would include old rocker cover gaskets and/or the oil
pressure sending unit. You could try cleaning the engine at a do-it-
yourself car wash; that'll help a lot in showing where the leak(s) are.

>One of the cylinders must have bad rings
>as it burns some oil and fouls the plug to the point of uselessness
>every 6 months.

Yuck. A cheap fix might be a couple of short-duration (500-mile) oil
and filter changes to try and de-sludge things, if the engine has gone
mucho thousands of miles between changes for most of its life. I've
done this on several beaters over the years and I think I've seen a
noticeable improvement with them after about the second change.

>The major things which cause it to fail safety:
>
> - drums on both back wheels don't meet regulations

Okay, well, you'll want a couple from the junkyard. $25?

> - horn doesn't work

New relay (if you don't hear a "click" when pressing the horn) or a
new horn (if you don't). $7-$11 either.

> - center link (cross link?) in the steering
> - upper left ball joint

Beyond my expertise. Somebody else can give you an opinion on that,
although it's not, well, brain surgery for cars that age; you can
shop by phone for repair estimates on that stuff. Or to put it
another way, I've paid others to do similar repairs for that on my
Cutlass, and the cost was still _way_ below the cost of replacing
the car. Does that sound any better?  :-)
- --
Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: <edison3@gato.cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 08:34:12 -0400
Subject: Rebuilding the 66

Ok, at the risk of swamping my mail server:

IT IS TIME! (Rafiki, The Lion King).

I going to rebuild the engine and transmission in my 66 Toro (now
all original) so I looking for suggestions.  The object is the
following:

    1) Performance!
    2) Performance!
        and, of course,
    3) Performance!

Scaring the h*ll out of the rice-burners at Clearwater Beach is the
goal.  Total original specs is NOT a consideration.  This is MY car
and I'm not worried if I don't get best-of-show because I have the
wrong air-cleaner.

So dream on -- let me know what you would do if it was your car.

The 66 Toro and Mike

Michael R. Frederick, CEO
EDIson3, Inc.
Tampa, Forida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 13:34:10 -0400
Subject: Re: 4bl for 231 v6

> Does anyone know if there exists, and if so where I can find a 4 barrel carb
> and intake  for an '81 Cutlass with a 231 Buick V6?
>
	Just checked the new Edelbrock catalog...They have a 4bbl performer
intake for even-fire 231s (part number 5486), and a performer plus
camshaft kit (non-computer controlled) that comes with lifters and lube
(part #5487).  For carburation they recomend either a Performer #1404
(500 cfm) or a Holley #0-8007 (390 cfm).  All of this is of course
non-emissions (no EGR, etc), if thats a factor.  It also says that it's
not compatable with C-3 and C-4 electronic fuel management systems.
	Price list says manifold is $244.95 suggested list.  The
Performer carb is $344.95.  The cam package is $170.95.  Oh, and both
carbs need Edelbrock spacer #2732 ($5.95).  They also offer a roller
timing set, and fancy valve covers, but after buying that other stuff, I
imagine you would'nt have to worry about that for a while!

	Hope this helps...	
			
			Scott
		1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 13:43:51 -0400
Subject: Re: 394 engine

> The engine he has in the boat is a 324 and not a 371 as I thought. What he
> wants is either a 371 or a 394 (this makes sense as to the difference in the
> crank). So, if anyone knows where one can be located, I would like to hear
> from them.
>
	Ah ha!  That would explain it.  That 324 must be getting pretty
old (they stopped making them in '56).  As for finding a 394, one of the
local yards here has at least 4 or 5 of them.  I think they oldest one
they have is in a 62 Dynamic 88 (the water pump from it is now in my 60)
but is otherwise very complete, and seems to be in decent shape.  I'm in
Missoula, so if you're interested, let me know.  Any one of them would
probibly go in the $150 range, but I can check on that to be sure.


		Hope this helps...
		
		Scott
	1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 13:42:09 -0400
Subject: Re: A hearbreaking moment

Previously I wrote:
>New relay (if you don't hear a "click" when pressing the horn) or a
>new horn (if you don't). $7-$11 either.
                  ^^^^^
*gack*  Brain fart. I meant to say that if you _do_ hear a "click" when
you press the horn, then the relay is probably fine but the horn is dead.

Actually on the Delta 88 you probably have _two_ horns, but it's quite
possible that one died many years ago without you noticing...
- --
Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Dink" <heinle@jake.udayton.edu>
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 14:19:23 -0400
Subject: clicking noise

Welp I have some more probs,
Whenever I make a tight or hard left turn it makes a clicking noise.
What I don't know, anybody have any idea's?  It does not do it when I
turn right though, hmm.  Is it time for a suspension rebuild? fine
with me, all the bushings look terrible.  I was also thinking of new
front and rear anti-sway bars, anybody have any experience with
these?  They look very simple to install, JC Witney has them for $85
each, but i don't trust that company, anybody order bars from them
before?  Or could it be from the Rallye's I just put on, they are 1"
wider than the ones that were on it.

Also my blower motor died. Are there any simple fixes I should look
for before I replace it.  I already checked the wiring and fuses.

One more annoying question, is there anyway to measure ride height?
It seems to be sitting a lot lower now.  maybe time for new springs?

Thanks for all the info guys and gals,

Dink
80 Delta 88 Royale

{
Dink           Dayton, Ohio
http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
}

------------------------------

From: "wesf@hpdmm12.boi.hp.com" <wesf@hpdmm12.boi.hp.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 15:11:36 -0400
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: RH dual exhaust manifold

>>Good luck on your search to try and find one.  I don't think that most
>>salvage yards sort and store manifolds by car/engine and for mine, I
>>found it at the bottom of a huge pile of misc manifolds that they had
>>in the yard.
>
>what kind of car do you have that you were looking at?  I know that duals
were >an option on the big cars, but I wonder how many were actually built
from the >factory like that?  if anyone know where I might could find a pair
for a >reasonable price I'd really appreciate it, most of the yards around
here have >crushed everything old or the ones with old parts think they are
worth a >fortune.

My car is a '75 Hurst/Olds, came with a single exhaust 455.  Up through
'74, you could order dual exhausts.  '75 and after, all you could get
was the single exhaust because everything had to go through a catalytic
converter.  I had to find the RH manifold PLUS double transmission
support frame member to retrofit the car to dual exhausts.  I'm not
sure where the manifold came from, since it was in the bottom of a large
pile of miscellaneous exhaust manifolds.

Wes Fujii

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 15:14:56 -0400
Subject: Re: clicking noise

>Whenever I make a tight or hard left turn it makes a clicking noise.
>What I don't know, anybody have any idea's?  It does not do it when I
>turn right though, hmm.

You didn't say how fast you were going at the time, but the first thing
I'd check would be the anti-sway bar link bolts on both sides which con-
nect the ends of the bar to the lower A-arms (or, um, whatever it was they
attach to at their lower end). These usually corrode and break after a
few years, right where the link bolt goes through its lower bushing. It
doesn't always show, but probing with a finger may turn up the break
(and if it did break, the broken piece may have been hammered to a
_very_ sharp point). Turn the front wheels to full lock either way, then
check in the wheel well of the side you turned the wheels toward...

The symptom is dramatic body roll in even low-speed turns. The fix is
pretty cheap; I think I spent maybe $20 for a new pair from TRW. Most
GM cars break them after a few years.

>Or could it be from the Rallye's I just put on, they are 1"
>wider than the ones that were on it.

If it's a loose, rattly clanking at crawling speed, regardless of
turns, I'd check to see if the little chrome trim pieces around the
five cutouts in each wheel are loose. Mine were.

>Also my blower motor died. Are there any simple fixes I should look
>for before I replace it.  I already checked the wiring and fuses.

Well, if you have voltage at the (purple?) wire connecting to that
rubbery plug fitting on the blower motor, then either the motor is
bad or its ground wire (the big black plastic connector an inch or
two away) is bad. Email me more details if this doesn't help.

>One more annoying question, is there anyway to measure ride height?

Uh, there's a state trooper in Massachusetts who can help you with
that one, I think.  :-)

>It seems to be sitting a lot lower now.  maybe time for new springs?

By now? Almost definitely. If the underside of the body isn't parallel
with the ground (i.e. if it's lower in front), it's time. The rears
may be fine if you're not lugging a ton of junk around in the trunk,
but the fronts are probably history.
- --
Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 07:18:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Rebuilding the 66

     What sort of budget you looking at?  How streetable does it need to
     be?

     Remember that
        "how fast you want it to go" = "how much you want to spend"

     If ya got the budget, how about a fully Mondello-built 455 with the
     works.  Lower the compression a tad and then slap on one (or two if
     you like) of those Paxton style under-the-hood superchargers.

     Can you get some pictures of the faces on the rice-burner-drivers for
     us when it's finished?


______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: Rebuilding the 66 Author:
oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET Date:    3/4/96 10:18 AM


Ok, at the risk of swamping my mail server:

IT IS TIME! (Rafiki, The Lion King).

I going to rebuild the engine and transmission in my 66 Toro (now
all original) so I looking for suggestions.  The object is the
following:

    1) Performance!
    2) Performance!
        and, of course,
    3) Performance!

Scaring the h*ll out of the rice-burners at Clearwater Beach is the
goal.  Total original specs is NOT a consideration.  This is MY car
and I'm not worried if I don't get best-of-show because I have the
wrong air-cleaner.


------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 07:48:40 -0400
Subject: HO headlights/Wiper refills

     After having to drive 3 hours home across dark-and-desolate central WA
     in a rainstorm at night a few weeks ago I decided that the stock
     halogen lights on my '84 H/O were not up to par.  I didn't feel safe
     at all with the limited distance those teeny lights on the 4-light
     system provide.  Brights worked great, but I couldn't keep them on for
     more than a minute at a time before some oncoming traffic came.

     So, I went out and plopped down $26 (at Target) for two GE High-Output
     halogens.  Wow, what a difference!  I just thought I'd mention it here
     and give a very high recommendation for anyone with a similar problem.
      I'm really happy so far.  Used the same wiring, and the increased
     current draw (I think 55W vs 35W) of these lights hasn't noticeably
     affected anything yet.  No whine on the stereo (and I have quite a bit
     of stereo equipment, plus a sensitive ear), and the voltage gauge
     hasn't changed (wish I had an ammeter).

     I still need to properly align the lights (just sorta eyballed it for
     now) one of these days.  Been using them for a week and a half and
     nobody has flashed me yet, so they're not too bright or aimed too
     high.  This swap is definitely worth it!

     Second issue:  The rainstorm also made me notice that I could use new
     wiper blades.  I can't find refills for the Anco blades that are on
     there now (I'm assuming they're the stock ones), and all the
     replacement blade assemblies look like they'll be too tall (they tuck
     under the hood, or at least they're supposed to, usually need a push),
     especially around the end where it would block the windshield sqirter.
      Anyone have a source or a good substitute for these?  Does GM still
     carry them?  How many limbs and/or newborn children do they want for a
     pair?

     Tom.

------------------------------

From: "G. Douglas Burton" <gdburton@venus.net>
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 16:24:50 -0400
Subject: Re: A hearbreaking moment

At 10:27 AM 3/4/96 -0400, you wrote:

>Not a bad idea at all; what does U-haul charge? Do those things just hook up
>to a bolt-on hitch from U-Haul as well? Any experience on this kind of thing?
>I'd be hooking it to a 403-powered Electra, but with a 2.41 rear, I think
>towing it through the hills of Pennsylvania might make my rebuild immediately
>necessary (tranny will need some work as well!).
>
>Good suggestion, though. I'll look into it.
>
I used one of those dollies recently.  Had to haul a few old mail Jeeps
about 40 miles each and I also had to haul my '82 Cutlass about 20 miles
(brake line broke; WILD RIDE!).  The man at Uhaul was skeptical about using
the dolly to haul a car as large as my Cutlass.  He said that was about the
limit for one of those things.  Be sure and check before you drive all that
way...

The cost of rental was $35 per day, and I think that is for local or one
way.  Of course there was a $50 deposit on the thing.  Don't know if they
will work with Uhaul's bumper hitch or not, but I know the dolly requires a
2" ball.  (I had to buy one!)

As for towing, the cars I hauled all followed nicely.  Out of all the trips
I made with it, I only found a loose strap once during my many safety
checks.  I used a gool ol' '75 Chevy 4WD pickup to do the hauling, so there
were no problems with that.

Of course I'm sure you know it, but it's best to remove the driveshaft for
long-distance towing.  I'm not sure why, but that's what I've always been
told. Good luck!

------------------------------

From: "Andrew A. Senko" <senko@reston.ans.net>
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 16:51:25 -0400
Subject: Re: clicking noise/ride height

>
> One more annoying question, is there anyway to measure ride height?
> It seems to be sitting a lot lower now.  maybe time for new springs?
>
> Dink
> 80 Delta 88 Royale


Ride height?  Ride height?  There's a cop somewhere that would be all too
happy to check your ride height!  I'll tell ya now, he thinks it's wrong!
Anybody remember where Dink can find this cop?  If memory serves, he had an
appetite for ~83 Cutlasses.  He was very popular with this list!
- --
                    _
                    |\            Convertibles
     .__====-_._____|_\______         Rule!                        Drew Senko
     [   ___  |-     |  ___  \                           senko@reston.ans.net
     =\_//.\\_|______|_//.\\__)                  http://members.gnn.com/senko
_________\_/____________\_/__________________________________________________

------------------------------

From: eric_buckner@non-hp-om.cv.hp.com
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 17:00:48 -0400
Subject: '75 Hurst/Olds

Item Subject: cc:Mail Text
     >>>My car is a '75 Hurst/Olds......

     Wes, I don't know if this applies to you but I've got a line on a '75
     H/O hood w/louvers. Know anyone that may be interested?
     Eric Buckner   eric_buckner
     '64 F-85 deluxe
     '64 Cutlass Holiday Hardtop Coupe (soon to be)

------------------------------

From: <edison3@gato.cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 12:11:22 -0400
Subject: Re: HO headlights/Wiper refills

I case anybody wants to figure these AMP things out, divide the
wattage by the voltage:

55 watts / 12 volts = 4.58 amps

35 watts / 12 volts = 2.91 amps

So yor using 4.58 - 2.91 or 1.67 more amps.  For two lamps, twice
that or 3.35 amps.  Shouldn't be enough more to matter.

The 66 Toro and Mike




Michael R. Frederick, CEO
EDIson3, Inc.
Tampa, Forida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 18:26:54 -0400
Subject: 425/400 owner alert!

I could use some help from 425 owners and Early-400 owners. I think I may have
found a key to external ID of the 0.921" lifter/39 degree cam bank angle
engines. Please, any owners or mechanics who have at their disposal any
  65-67 425 engine
  65-67 400 engine, block casting ID "E"
Please look at the rib that marks the block as a BB- on the RH end of the
block ID shelf, just behind the water pump... the vertical rib that runs from
the timing cover back to the intake... look on the top edge, probably along
the RH side sort of, for a DRILL SPOT. Maybe up to 1/4" diameter, maybe at a
45 degree angle or so.  Kinda like they started to drill thru it or into it,
then stopped. Should be obvious if it's there.
   Then, email to me, at the address below- NOT HERE- A) whether or not your
block has a drill spot, and B) what the block is for/from: '67 Toro, '66
Police/Starfire, etc. C) IF you know for sure, like if the block is dismantled
for easy measuring- whether the block has the Sx45 lifters or the Lx39
lifters.

"Anybody can build a 455... it takes a Rocket Scientist to understand the
subtleties of the 425's"
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 18:29:51 -0400
Subject: 455/307 main bolts

Glenn?

As you probably already know, the 307 is a small block, the 455 a big block.
As such, the main bolts definately do NOT interchange. For one thing, SB's
[except Die&Sells- thanks to ? for that term] are 7/16" on the #1-4, while the
BB's used 1/2". ALL used 1/2" on #5, so if that's what you need, you are in
luck. Prolly oughta just buy new if ANY have been overstressed, though... - --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 18:29:31 -0400
Subject: Towing & History Center...was Re: A hearbreaking moment

> Of course I'm sure you know it, but it's best to remove the driveshaft for
> long-distance towing.  I'm not sure why, but that's what I've always been
told. > Good luck!

	
	The way I understand it, if it's an automatic, you need to
disconnect the driveshaft from the transmission (or have the drive wheels
off the ground like a tow truck would do). What happens is when the car
is in motion, it turns the transmission, and since the engine isn't
running, the oil pump in the transmission isn't running.  With no oil
running throught it, after a few miles of highway speed it burns up the
transmission.  With a manual, you can just put in neutral and forget about
it, since the gears are swimming in gear oil the whole time either way.

	On completly different note, I finally got a response to my
letter to the Olds History Center!!  They sent me photocopies of a bunch
of original sales literature with all kinds of specs, and a bunch of
other cool stuff (like Aids For The Olds Enthusiast!)  I highly recomend
sending them a letter when you get a chance (all that for the price of a
stamp!!)  Only thing they couldn't tell me was how to decode the build
sheets.  :(  Any of you have an idea?
	All of that stuff did raise one
question for me, though.  According to the sales stuff, my car (body code
837) is the Holiday SceniCoup.  Listed above that is the Holiday
SportSedan.  Hmmmm.  What makes it a SportSedan??  It cost about $80 more
than my SceniCoup.  The only model above the SportSedan is the
convertable.  I don't know, I always figured that since my car was a
two-door hardtop, and a 98 it was top of the line (short of a conv. of
course).  Anybody care to guess?
	Anyway, write the history center if you haven't already.  It
rules!
		
	Oh one more thing--I got the new fuel pump on this weekend.  I
even have a bloody knuckle to prove it!  After a few cranks to prime
itself, it fired up and ran like a top.  Even with a swiss-cheese exhaust
system, it was music to the ears.  Love thoes big V8s!!

		
		Scott
	1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98


------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 18:38:18 -0400
Subject: Misc. Stuff

Hmmm. As for the '77 403's being 'better', I'd be very interested in seeing
any proof of this. Anyone have a '77 403 apart, can photo the innards? The
diff. is reportedly fully-webbed vs. open main bearing supports; I have yet to
see any f.w. 403's of any year. Will gladly pay for photos if they exist.

I found my database of Olds Service Manual Engine Specs handy this weekend-
looked up the ID letter on the valves from the race car's old heads- I thought
it was a 68 Toro engine- but the valves' ID's were unique to the 68 442
engine... too bad the block had been wasted due to the *hevy mechanic that
worked on it...

I actually had a guy claim today that he'd pay $150 for a pair of sv C
heads... always buying them... I think it might be time to liquidate some of
them. I need a truck... so I need the cash.

I called PAW, you know the big 2-page ads in the major car magazines, looking
at a pair of chrome RACovers for the race car... $25... and happened to
inquire if they had the dual springs & retainers capable of 0.550" cam lift
like Mondello's.... They did, and for a good $15 less. So, they got the order
for both items. What a deal. - -- Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket
Scientist wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 18:58:21 -0400
Subject: Re: clicking noise

A clicking noise during a turn from a anti-sway bar??

Maybe, but I'd check those front wheels bearings first.

Bob Handren
'67 443 W-30 modofied
70 SX convert

------------------------------

From: conrad <rad19@icon.net>
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 19:12:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Rebuilding the 66

edison3@cpeq.com wrote:
>
> Ok, at the risk of swamping my mail server:
>
> IT IS TIME! (Rafiki, The Lion King).
>
> I going to rebuild the engine and transmission in my 66 Toro (now
> all original) so I looking for suggestions.  The object is the
> following:
>
>     1) Performance!
>     2) Performance!
>         and, of course,
>     3) Performance!
>
> Scaring the h*ll out of the rice-burners at Clearwater Beach is the
> goal.  Total original specs is NOT a consideration.  This is MY car
> and I'm not worried if I don't get best-of-show because I have the
> wrong air-cleaner.
>
> So dream on -- let me know what you would do if it was your car.
>
> The 66 Toro and Mike
>
> Michael R. Frederick, CEO
> EDIson3, Inc.
> Tampa, Forida
> (813) 210-8649


Michael,  I'm going to be doing the same thing.  I've had my 66 since
'81.  I only drove it for about 6 weeks when it quit pumping oil.  Ive
stored it all these years and I am in the process of getting a loan to
do it right.  I, like you, intend to the the eng/tran.  I want it to
scream.  I had one when I was 16 that would blow the doors
camaros/firebirds..  They would get me off the line but once the beast
got rolling, it would soon overtake them.

I would like to keep in touch.  Have you gone to "Kanters" page?  They
have a great catalog that lists a lot of parts for the TORO.  I'd be
interested to here of any good sources you are aware of.

Conrad..

------------------------------

From: "Dink" <heinle@jake.udayton.edu>
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 19:13:48 -0400
Subject: Re: clicking noise

> You didn't say how fast you were going at the time,
slow speeds, but i tried to recreate it today and could not.

> I'd check would be the anti-sway bar link bolts on both sides which
I checked them and they seemed fine.

> turns, I'd check to see if the little chrome trim pieces around the
> five cutouts in each wheel are loose. Mine were.
forgot to check this.

> Well, if you have voltage at the (purple?) wire connecting to that
well I went out and unplugged the wires, and at first got no
voltage at the purple wire, but after wiggleing them i got  12 volts
and the motor now works on low, and medium but not high?

> Uh, there's a state trooper in Massachusetts who can help you with
> that one, I think.  :-)
I musta missed something :)

> By now? Almost definitely. If the underside of the body isn't parallel
> with the ground (i.e. if it's lower in front), it's time.
it appears that it is, how hard are springs to install?

> The rears may be fine if you're not lugging a ton of junk around in the
trunk, the only thungs in the trunck usually are the spare tire and tool box.


Thanks,
    Dink

{
Dink           Dayton, Ohio
http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
}

------------------------------

From: conrad <rad19@icon.net>
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 19:22:16 -0400
Subject: Re: 425/400 owner alert!

Chris Brown Witt wrote:
>
> I could use some help from 425 owners and Early-400 owners. I think I may
have > found a key to external ID of the 0.921" lifter/39 degree cam bank
angle > engines. Please, any owners or mechanics who have at their disposal
any >   65-67 425 engine >   65-67 400 engine, block casting ID "E" > Please
look at the rib that marks the block as a BB- on the RH end of the block > ID
shelf, just behind the water pump... the vertical rib that runs from the >
timing cover back to the intake... look on the top edge, probably along the RH 
>
side sort of, for a DRILL SPOT. Maybe up to 1/4" diameter, maybe at a 45
degree > angle or so.  Kinda like they started to drill thru it or into it,
then > stopped. Should be obvious if it's there. >    Then, email to me, at
the address below- NOT HERE- A) whether or not your > block has a drill spot,
and B) what the block is for/from: '67 Toro, '66 > Police/Starfire, etc. C) IF
you know for sure, like if the block is dismantled > for easy measuring-
whether the block has the Sx45 lifters or the Lx39 lifters. > > "Anybody can
build a 455... it takes a Rocket Scientist to understand the > subtleties of
the 425's" > -- > Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist >
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu


Chris, is this for a Toro?  I have a '66 that I am getting ready to
rebuild.  I am not a mechanic.  I have done a valve job on an engine
before but that was with some help.

I am concerned with who to "trust" my engine with.  I am also going to
have the tranny rebuilt because the car has sat for a long time.  Any
advice on how to pick someone to work on them?  Any advice appreciated.

Conrad

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 19:14:49 -0400
Subject: Re: clicking noise

>A clicking noise during a turn from a anti-sway bar??

A bit of stretch, maybe, but as the body rolls, it pushes the broken
ends of the link bolts together, grinding, etc. Since the bolt is held
at both ends, the broken area remains in alignment (sort of) and the
busted faces keep slamming together periodically.

>Maybe, but I'd check those front wheels bearings first.

Yeah, good to check them, too. Boy, if they're clicking, I'd hate
to see what shape they're in... or what color...
- --
Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 19:26:55 -0400
Subject: Re: HO headlights/Wiper refills

>     I still need to properly align the lights (just sorta eyballed it for
>     now) one of these days.  Been using them for a week and a half and
>     nobody has flashed me yet, so they're not too bright or aimed too
>     high.  This swap is definitely worth it!

I picked up a pair of those bubble-level headlamp aimers (one for round
headlamps, one for rectangulars), and as far as I'm concerned, they are
the greatest thing since sliced bread. You lay the aimer face down in
front of the car, level the bubble on the scale with an adjustment knob,
then pick it up and press it to the face of the headlamp, on the aiming
pads cast into the headlamp glass. The bubble level is a right-angle
tube, so the bubble you synchronized in the face-down position now floats
up to the scale for the face-up (vertical) position, and you hold the
level against the headlamp while you adjust the vertical aiming screw
until the bubble creeps to the center of the scale.

The results on every car I've tried them have been simply perfect.
I found them at K mart, although they may have been remaindered there.
J.C. Whitney might have them.

It helps to rebuild and lube the adjusting screws for the headlamp
bucket first, especially if they're almost seized, and put a blob of
grease on the bearing pads _behind_ the bucket, where the bucket is
held against the supporting frame behind it.

>     Second issue:  The rainstorm also made me notice that I could use new
>     wiper blades.  I can't find refills for the Anco blades that are on
>     there now (I'm assuming they're the stock ones), and all the
>     replacement blade assemblies look like they'll be too tall (they tuck
>     under the hood, or at least they're supposed to,

Gee, I never had a problem with clearance. I like the Roberk brand, which
(around here) is also a lot cheaper. I gave up on Anco and Trico because
the blades never seemed to last long, whereas Roberks seem to go forever.

>usually need a push),

I had a _lot_ problems with _that_; as the linkage aged, there was so
much slop developing that the park cycle would stop before it pushed
the blades over that slight hump caused by the aluminum trim along the
lower edge of the glass. Never did figure that one out. Drove me nuts.
- --
Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 19:34:13 -0400
Subject: Re: clicking noise

>> turns, I'd check to see if the little chrome trim pieces around the
>> five cutouts in each wheel are loose. Mine were.
>forgot to check this.

Well, crawl past a wall with the window open; the sound will reflect
up to you a lot better. See what you discover then.

>> Well, if you have voltage at the (purple?) wire connecting to that
>well I went out and unplugged the wires, and at first got no
>voltage at the purple wire, but after wiggleing them i got  12 volts
>and the motor now works on low, and medium but not high?

If not high, either the fan switch in the dash has melted, the high-speed
bypass relay is dead, or (and this is almost _always_ the problem), a
particular harness connector has melted partway through.

Find the high-speed bypass relay under the hood, mounted near the blower
motor. Find a fat (~10 gauge) red wire running from the relay towards the
engine. It will go through an in-line connector in parallel with two or
three other (smaller) wires. Open this connector. I believe you'll find
that the 10-gauge wire's contacts have melted here. Reassemble the con-
nector so the other wires are still hooked up, and install (somehow) a
good bypass or jumper for the 10-gauge wire to get past this connection.
That should do it.

>> Uh, there's a state trooper in Massachusetts who can help you with
>> that one, I think.  :-)
>I musta missed something :)

Boy, did you ever. Summary, anyone?  :-)

>> By now? Almost definitely. If the underside of the body isn't parallel
>> with the ground (i.e. if it's lower in front), it's time.
>it appears that it is, how hard are springs to install?

Uh, anyone else want to tackle this?
- --
Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: <edison3@gato.cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 14:59:43 -0400
Subject: The 39th degree

Chris:

Not able to get thru to MSU so replying here.  Checked my Toronado
and found the drill mark exactly where you said it would be.  Now
what?  By the way -- is IS the original 425.

So how's the weather?

The 66 Toro and Mike


Michael R. Frederick, CEO
EDIson3, Inc.
Tampa, Forida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 20:24:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Misc. Stuff

Watch out for those Taiwanese chrome rocker covers.  The stockers have
baffles above the rockers to keep oil out of the breather/PVC/filter
depending on year.

If the ones you bought from PAW (or anywhere else) don't haven, be prepared
to be wiping a lot oil off your engine.

------------------------------

From: gludlam@bcinet.net (Gregg Ludlam)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 20:45:02 -0400
Subject: Re: A hearbreaking moment

>>What about going to U-Haul, renting one of those automotive tow dolleys (the
>>funky little 2-wheel thangs) and dragging that sucker back to NY/CT?  I bet
>>it'd be cheaper than towing/shipping/etc., plus you get the WHOLE car!
>
>Not a bad idea at all; what does U-haul charge? Do those things just hook up
>to a bolt-on hitch from U-Haul as well? Any experience on this kind of thing?
>I'd be hooking it to a 403-powered Electra, but with a 2.41 rear, I think
>towing it through the hills of Pennsylvania might make my rebuild immediately
>necessary (tranny will need some work as well!).

U-Haul has a little book that compares your tow vehicle to what you intend
to tow.  I know they wouldn't let me pull my '67 Toro with a '94 Dodge Ram
4X4, supposedly because the Toro was too big/heavy for the dolley.  You
might want to call one or more dealers to "test the waters" first.  Forget
about Ryder for the dolley or a trailer...they won't let you pull their
dolley with your car.  You have to rent THEIR truck and THEIR dolley, making
a trip like yours cost-prohibitive.  As for U-Haul's cost, you'd have to ask
them - it's all based on miles.  Good luck!


- -Gregg, the '67 Toro guy

------------------------------

From: gludlam@bcinet.net (Gregg Ludlam)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 20:51:08 -0400
Subject: Re: gas tanks

>Another option would be to obtain a good used or after market tank.  I
>have seen repro tanks fro sale by various Olds vendors.  Does anyone
>know whether these fit/function and look like the originals or whther they
>are of good quality?

Good quality aftermarket fuel tanks for GM A-body cars can be had for
roughly $225 from several sources advertising in Hemmings.  I installed one
a few years back in my '69 GS look-alike with no troubles - but then, it was
only $165 back in those days!


- -Gregg, the '67 Toro guy

------------------------------

From: gludlam@bcinet.net (Gregg Ludlam)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 20:57:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Rebuilding the 66

>So dream on -- let me know what you would do if it was your car.
>
>The 66 Toro and Mike

Nothing...it's already rated at 385hp and 470 ft-lbs of torque.  What more
would you possibly need?  Of course, lighting up the front end and watching
the tire smoke billow past the doors IS pretty cool!


- -Gregg, the '67 Toro guy

------------------------------

From: gludlam@bcinet.net (Gregg Ludlam)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 21:02:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Rebuilding the 66

>     If ya got the budget, how about a fully Mondello-built 455 with the
>     works.  Lower the compression a tad and then slap on one (or two if
>     you like) of those Paxton style under-the-hood superchargers.

May not be able to do the blower...Toros don't have much (if any) under-hood
clearance.


- -Gregg, the '67 Toro guy

------------------------------

From: gludlam@bcinet.net (Gregg Ludlam)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 21:05:36 -0400
Subject: Re: HO headlights/Wiper refills

>     Second issue:  The rainstorm also made me notice that I could use new
>     wiper blades.  I can't find refills for the Anco blades that are on
>     there now (I'm assuming they're the stock ones), and all the
>     replacement blade assemblies look like they'll be too tall (they tuck
>     under the hood, or at least they're supposed to, usually need a push),
>     especially around the end where it would block the windshield sqirter.
>      Anyone have a source or a good substitute for these?  Does GM still
>     carry them?  How many limbs and/or newborn children do they want for a
>     pair?

I had the same problem...I still have the original Trico metal arms, and had
to go to a universal blade since the new Anco and Trico refills only fit
their new blade assemblies.  I used an 18" version from Pylon - they're sold
at Wal-Mart and work great.


- -Gregg, the '67 Toro guy

------------------------------

From: gludlam@bcinet.net (Gregg Ludlam)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 21:13:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Rebuilding the 66

>I would like to keep in touch.  Have you gone to "Kanters" page?  They
>have a great catalog that lists a lot of parts for the TORO.
                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

How about some info (like the web page address) for Kanter's.  Thanks!


- -Gregg, the '67 Toro guy

------------------------------

From: gludlam@bcinet.net (Gregg Ludlam)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 21:16:23 -0400
Subject: Re: clicking noise

>>> Uh, there's a state trooper in Massachusetts who can help you with
>>> that one, I think.  :-)
>>I musta missed something :)
>
>Boy, did you ever. Summary, anyone?  :-)

Hmmmm...can't remember.  Must've been busy shooting my Borg clock with WD-40
at the time...          :)


- -Gregg, the '67 Toro guy

------------------------------

From: roady@postoffice.ptd.net (Cory Roadarmel)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 21:22:19 -0400
Subject: Electric fuel pump

I'm getting ready for the racing season and want to install an electric fuel
pump.
I remember reading on the mail list not to long ago that when you install a
elect. pump, you should leave the mech. pump in place and plug the
inlet/outlet instead of putting on a block off plate.
I run a 1973 Olds 350 motor.

Can anyone comment on this??




Thanks
Cory Roadarmel

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #109
********************************
