
oldsmobile-digest          Thursday, 16 May 1996       Volume 01 : Number 176


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 16:54:15 -0300
Subject: Re: 442's vs. Buick GN

Tom Lentz wrote:
> 
>      15.8 sounds just about right for that car.  Not very impressive, I
>      know.  I wonder why Olds didn't try putting fuel injection on their
>      late-model V8's.  If I had fuel injection I'd probably half think
>      about adding a turbo or centrifugal-type supercharger.
> 
>      Hmm... which do you suppose would be easier:  Adding fuel injection
>      and a turbo, or just ditching the engine and adapting an Aurora V8 to
>      a G-body Cutlass?  I promise I'll try both and let you know the
>      results as soon as I win the lottery, or Ed McMahon stops by with my
>      10 mil.

> If it were me I would put in the Aurora V8 with a Paxton supercharger and maybe 
nitrous? . Hows that for the ultimate street sleeper? Although I do like turbo's 
also......
- -- 
Jason P. Labay (Akron, Ohio)				  z28cfi@gwis.com
Grad Student in Sport Administration at Kent State U.     f-list since: 7/95
1988 Camaro Z/28 Cross-Fire Injection 305
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25

------------------------------

From: "Lowell V. Paden, Jr." <lvpaden@freedomnet.com>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 18:52:03 -0300
Subject: Re: electrical problems 

Well.. even I am embarrassed.. 

And the winner is.. the voltage regulator. $9.99 at Advance Auto Parts. (The
Delco Remy cover does not fit over the new assembly, so I couldn't re-use that.)

This was what I originally suspected, but thought the voltage regulator was
in the alternator. I replaced the alternator, but the problem persisted.

But my Chilton Olds repair guide says that the '70-72 Cutlasses (except
442's) had external ones. Starting in '73 they were all in the alternators.
Sure enough, the little black box on the firewall was what I needed to replace.

This fixes my flicker problem. I drove the car last night and it was like
old times again. One nagging question.. can this also be the resolution to
my intermittent starting problem? Of course, if that problem crops up again,
I will certainly be checking the battery cables and ground.

Thanks again, friends.

Lowell Paden
'72 Olds Cutlass convertible 350 2bbl 191K miles.



------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 13:51:57 -0300
Subject: Re: 70 ? Cutlass available

David Paulison wrote:
> 
>
> If you can't tell from the grill, look at the front signal lamps in the
> bumper. Round lamps=1969 or 1970, rectangular lamps=1971 or 1972.  Of
> course, you know, if you really want to know the year, check the VIN.  :)
> --
> Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
> dpauliso@metrolink.net
> 
>  "I was put on this earth to accomplish a certain number of things;
>     right now I'm so far behind, I'll never die"  --CalvinPaul:

There is the old trick of looking at the front or rear lenses and 
checking the year written there.  Sometimes a lense is carried over a 
couple of years, but it didn't happen often in the 60's and 70's.

Bill Culp

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 19:26:41 -0300
Subject: Name that craft...was Re: Olsmobubble

> 
> >>Any suggestions on a name for the
> >>craft would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> H2/O ? (One of those *big* Hurst/OIds decals, with the "2" in little
> subscript...)

	Or how about Torotanic?  Or maybe Four Fifty Fun? (did someone else 
already suggest that?)  I know, I know.  C-h-e-e-z-y!
	
			Scott
		1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 19:24:23 -0300
Subject: Wax on...Wax off-- removing oxidation

> Need to know a way to easily (ha!) remove oxidation.  Does one exist?  I've
> tried polishing compound, and while it does work, it is quite tiring and
> time consuming.  Just fishing around to see if anybody knows an easier way.
> Of course, if I had just taken proper care of it in the first place...

	If there is one, I've never seen it.  I have always had good results 
with Meguiars Fine or Meduium cut cleaner, but it's always a *lot* of 
elbow grease!  Have you tried useing an orbital polisher, or maybe a DA 
sander with polishing pad on it?  I tried using an orbiltal polisher 
once, and it worked ok, but it seemed like it didn't really do as good a 
job as just using a terry towel and some muscle.  Anyone else have any 
experience with this?

				Scott
			1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: Bob Valentine <ravalent@liii.com>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 20:56:21 -0300
Subject: Re: Module Madness

On Tue, 14 May 1996, Mike Hall wrote:

> I just blew the THIRD electronic module in a year.

> I have a Accell HEI (a rebuilt GM HEI) and had nothing but trouble with 
> these eletronic modules. Modules have all died while the car was sitting 
> outside, that is a odd bit of trivia...

> I suspect my voltage regulator is tired so I picked up one of those while 
> I was at my local parts store. Anybody got a clue as to what is causing 
> this? This has happened before and after the engine rebuild. I also 

     Are you still running the old vibrator regulator?

     I know that all the Mopar guys change over to a dual-field 
(electronic regulated) alternator when they put in a electronic igniton.  
I had already converted to a 10SI when I put my HEI in a few years ago.  
Never even changed the module from the junkyard unit, and it's rumor that 
electronics don't like the uneven power from the old regulators.

> Michael R. Hall                            Ortonville, Michigan

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                    --> ravalent@liii.com  <--
        "Experience varies directly with equipment ruined"

------------------------------

From: StPat1@aol.com
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 21:12:55 -0300
Subject: - 

unsubsribe oldsmobile stpat1@aol.com

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 22:43:35 -0300
Subject: 73 98 avail, got a cam?

Hating life. 3 week back order [and you know how THAT usually goes... then 3
more, then next summer...] on the cam from Mondello... That'd kill most of the
racing season... I can't wait. If any opf you have a new JM-28-29 cam or
similar- 300 degrees or so duration, over .500 lift, let me know...

Yes, the wrecked 73 98 is up for grabs. Nice running 455. Original elderly lady
owner, hit RF corner. 4 door. PWindows, Leather (?) seats. PLocks. In Lansing,
MI. About $300 for all. TH400 presumably. Hood OK. Nice interior. Cruise. Many
options. I can't get it cuz I am saving up for the 69 442 motor...

- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 22:49:46 -0300
Subject: @ the machine shop

So I go to pick up the crank after balancing... the guy says there's another
Olds in here being done, a 400... piques my interest... Oh, and it's getting a
6-pack intake... can I see it? sure.. Yep, G block, F intake with three
2-barrel carb holes... and heads, lessee... Oh, my! -D- heads!
  I left him a flier for the owner... *wipes more drool away*

- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 23:04:08 -0300
Subject: Re: Knock-knock... 

>"KNOCK! KNOCK! KNOCK!!!"
>
>I could do an experiment, drain the oil and water to see how long it would
>run. Or I could take it down to the strip and run it in the "Blown" Gas class
>(that'd be an entertaining sport; racing cars that have spun bearings; c'mon,
>Chris, first one over 50mph takes the pink slips! ;)
>
>I'll be bringing the spare 403 to the machine shop this week anyway, so if
>anything isn't up to snuf, hey, I've now got a "parts" 403.

     Sounds like a great race class!  I could go and try to dig up my old
403 V6 (!) and meet ya'll there!  By the way, is that 50mph with or without
the tow truck?!!?  :}
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 23:14:24 -0300
Subject: Re: knock, knock, knockin' on heaven's door! 

>
>
>O.k...   here's a prob...    I have a 48 olds...  was taking it to a 
>show and the engine suddenly started knockin.  I stopped the car, got it 
>home and that's it.   this knock is loud.   

     Don't worry about it!  Just bring it to the track, and Bob, Chris, you,
and I will make the big run with 'em.  I'm guessing we could pull of 8
second et's (60' that is!)  Hell, if we get really into this, we should pick
up a Ford pace car somewhere (ya know, so we can keep up with it!)      

    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 23:04:12 -0300
Subject: Re: battery drain/windows 

>The fuses aren't blown for the windows since the installation, but I'm
>wondering if I'm getting a small short-just enough to drain the battery
>over a period of time.  Is these a systematic way to locate a short?

     Windows drain?  Umm, is that Windows 95?!  Sounds realistic!   :)
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 23:49:24 -0300
Subject: Misc Stuffs

> need any and all info on 1963 dynamic 88 holiday with three speed tran

prolly the 394 engine, of which apparently only the oil pump is similar to the
'64 & up engines [based on parts listings].

> Parts hunt: anyone out there have a manual right-side mirror for a
> '68/'69 Cutlass? Elliptical-shaped glass, with two rather large mushroom
> heads to attach it to the door... and cheap but in good shape. I know,
> I'm dreaming...

Rather hard to find. I found one in a yard on the west coast [Muskegon] last
year, price "about $85"... gotta buy the whole door... everything that day was
"about $85"... He was the 'expensive guy' I guess. It stayed there.
   btw, I *believe* the 70-72 big cars used the same or nearly so mirror- with
nearly 90 degree base-post interface as viewed from front or back [not side].
Good luck. -Chris-

> ok...will a 350 intake fit on a letr model 307?  i need to know this as to
> keep the SMOG legality on my truck...and would the heads also fit...i might
> have to use the heads as some were special to TBI...

Well, WHAT YEAR 350?... the 3A heads... prolly, not sure. Any SB intake/heads
SET oughta fit right on OK... I dunno if the 3A heads have them teeny ports
like the 10's, 2A's, 7A's etc. -Chris-

> I have tried a different approach to isolating the two center exhaust
> ports in the heads.  I simply made a profile of the recessed exhaust
> port wall with one of those devices which has many adjacent metal
> "probes" (you can buy them at almost any hardware store.  I then traced
> that outline to a piece of 1/8" thick steel, cut it out and welded it
> to the flange of my hedder......the result is that the isolator wall is
> integral to the hedder rather than the head, but functions in the same
> manner.  The advantage of this approach is that you avoid welding of
> the cast iron head with its attendant pre-heating, tricky welding, and
> controlled cooling required for a successful weld.

Clever, if you account for gasket thickness too. How's this: mill the divider
away until it gets fat enough to... make a matching insert of stainless or cast
iron... drill & tap 3-4 holes for small, say, #8 screws. Drill insert to match.
Use hex drive socket head or flat head screws to secure insert, grind flat when
done. Then, there's the ceramic molding compounds... refractory cements...
- -Chris-

> Ya know how people always say not to talk about things, or else you'll jinx
> them? Well, they're right!

Funny, after the 1st snafu, my wife said something like "can't have much WORSE
luck, eh?" Thanks, Angela.... :)

> I could do an experiment, drain the oil and water to see how long it would
> run. Or I could take it down to the strip and run it in the "Blown" Gas class
> (that'd be an entertaining sport; racing cars that have spun bearings; c'mon,
> Chris, first one over 50mph takes the pink slips! ;)

That's OK. Hey, you might just NEED those parts soon... Works that way often.

> Two words:  Daisy Duke.  ;-}
> Shawn M. Twomey     |  "No!  Try NOT!  Do, or do not.  There is no try."

I always liked them self-repairing cars... JUMP! BANG! big dented bent front
end... next scene: fully repaired! Wiper blades that come & go as if by magic,
etc. That car NEVER needed fuel either... Any wrenching they did was only to
'tune it better' Heh. -Chris-

> From: GUEISEPPI THE BARBER <JJF96@uno.cc.geneseo.edu>
> Subject: knock, knock, knockin' on heaven's door!
>
> O.k...   here's a prob...    I have a 48 olds...  was taking it to a
> show and the engine suddenly started knockin.  I stopped the car, got it
> home and that's it.   this knock is loud.
>              the engine is a 6 cyl. straight, L head, cast iron block
>                     238 cu in
>
>     first, this engine has 64,000 origional miles with a knock...
> I have a 47 engine (identical engine) with compatible casting numbers.
> this 47 engine runs but blows smoke....
> i can't afford to have the engine rebuilt by a pro, so i have to do the
> major labor (other than machining).....
>    #1   which engine should I rebuild?

Take yer pick. If you do the out one, the bearings & crank oughta be better,
but guides might co$t... and, you can do a quick pull & install after the
rebuild, less chance of forgetting how stuff was hooked up.. important to those
of us w/o memory...

>    #2   What helpful tips and/or instructions would you give a first
>             time builder?  What should I look for?

A service manual? Rely on your machinist for a lot of advice. If the parts are
available, should be pretty easy... unbolt things with many fasteners slowly
and in a circular pattern [head, clutch, int/xst manifold, etc.] as per usual.

>    #3 is there anyone willing to guide me step by step on the rebuild?
>          (this is my first)
>
>      p.sp.s.  my 47 has 41,000 orig. miles.  it sat (hence it blows
> smoke

Well, we'll do what we can... Rings, bearings, valve job with new seals, oughta
be fine. Fix any iffy valve guides. -Chris-

> This is what I would have thought.  How do you explain, then, the high prices
> for these cars, even mundane four-door sedans, listed in the Old Cars Price
> Guide?  Cars in #5 condition (#6 is the worst...essentially just a parts
> car) are listed at $1400-1600.  #6 cars are listed at $300-500.

Is this the same price guide that listed a 'parts' 68 W30 as valued at about
$500?!?!?! I added up the price of D heads, intakes, differential, etc., came
up with more like $2-3000 even if the sheetmetal is essentially nonexistant. Go
figure. Maybe they're using what is apparently the standard method of setting
old car [or parts] asking price: take a reasonable figure... then multiply by 3
to 5! -Chris-

>     When you pull a distributor out of an engine, is the hex shaped drive
> rod designed to stay in the oil pump or come out with the distributor?

Well.... it's *supposed* to stay in the engine. In fact, original ones usually
had two inner-serrated washers located 1-11/16" (?) from the bottom end, to
ensure that it stayed down there where it belonged.
 HOWEVER.... often, I believe usually thur high-rpm use which taxes the drive
rod thru the oil pump, the rod gets stuck in the dist'r gear. Really stuck.
Happened to me last year after the 66 Toro engine was used in the race car.
Extracted the dist'r with a big pry bar, in doing so stripped those washers off
the OPDRod... into the sump :(
   I have wondered if perhaps a good smack on top of the dist'r shaft, as it's
held upward gently, would break free the OPDR from the dist'r gear. Have yet to
try it... Perhaps a light smack opposite to normal rotation? -Chris-

> chemical versus the environment, and this was in California where used engine
> oil is considered a hazardous waste (the only state to view it as such unless
> some others have jumped on that bandwagon in the last 5 years).

In CA, *air* is considered Hazardous Waste. Of course, for the most part, it
*is*, there! -Chris- :)

> H2/O ? (One of those *big* Hurst/OIds decals, with the "2" in little
> subscript...)

Hard to beat that name... -Chris-

> >use a 350 intake and heads if need be...the question tis will 87-up 350
> >heads fit on a 307?i need to use the same heads to match the TBI intake...
>
> Uh, oh, methinks he's talking about that *other*, inferior, small-block that
> GM used, also displaced 5.0 or 5.7 liters like the proper Olds small-block.
> Now who made that thing, let me think...

Well, Olds did make a 350, later, with the "-A" type heads. I am sure that the
3A heads on the 3B block is a 350 engine. 5A, 6A, & 7A being 307 Olds heads.
Easy enuf to tell the C-word engine from the Olds- count RACover bolts...
- -Chris-

> From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
> Subject: Confused re. 5-liter V-8s
>
> I'm going to look at the '85 Cutlass I mentioned the other day, probably
> tonight. My brother said over the phone that the owner told him it had a
> "305" V-8.
>
> Now, I'm confused. I know the Cutlass 2-door had a 307 that is the Olds
> Rocket design. I also know that the dreaded Ch*vy v-8 is, in fact, 305
> cubic inches, and I have heard these were also installed in some of these
> cars, or at least in 4-doors. What was the pattern and/or logic which GM
> used in this? Could this '85 Cutlass 2-door indeed have a Ch*vy 305? Or
> does the owner not know what he's talking about?

It's not uncommon for folks to not be able to tell a 307 [Olds] from a 305
[some other maker]. even if they own it. You have to inspectigate it yourself.

- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 23:49:54 -0300
Subject: Re: Knock-knock... 

In a message dated 96-05-13 01:41:05 EDT, you write:

>"Knock-knock"

Thought this was gonna be another one of those articles about Chevys!

Paul

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 01:15:17 -0300
Subject: Edelbrock SB Performer; do the accessories bolt up? 

Well, I dropped off the 403 parts to the machine shop; they were getting a
bunch of racers ready for an event next weekend at Sears Point, so lots of
fun things to look at, made of lots of little parts (I am as diehard an Olds
fan as any of you, but I would trade all my Rocket parts and cars, and
forsake you guys forever, if I could just have that blue GT40 I saw there!).

After about $1200 worth of machining, it looks like I'll be doing a rebuild,
so I better start getting serious about things here and order up some parts.

I'd like to install the Edelbrock SB Performer manifold, and was wondering
whether it had the hookups for factory brackets and accessories (alternator
bracket, cruise control, etc.). And how does it introduce the EGR into the
mixture? The factory put nozzles under the primary bores of the Q-jet that
just about blocked them off; is Edelbrock any cleaner in design?

And has anybody used the Edelbrock Performer camshaft & kit? The lift and
duration look just about right for my low-rpm torque motor, right in between
the JM14-100 and the JM16-18 (about the same specs as a JM15-100, but swap
the intake and exhaust lifts; what's with that cam, anyway? Why so much less
exhaust lift than intake? Is that a typo?)

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 01:39:11 -0300
Subject: Re: Bryce's Olds-powered jet boat

If it were turbocharged then it could be an Olds Turbo-Hydro maniac.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: Albert Levi Ball <alball@interramp.com>
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 22:52:06 -0300
Subject: RE: Re[2]: 307 V8

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB427F.329AB4A0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Oh yea....I forgot...it has been about five years since i put the thing =
on...the cruise linkage did go in the vice to get modified....works just =
fine....for the vacuum switches ill find out when i get home....hey i =
will be at bangor sub base for about 2 1/2 weeks for processing out of =
the navy...if there is a club up there maybe i can meet the club...prob =
find some parts too...
levi

- ----------
From: 	Tom Lentz[SMTP:tlentz@teknon.com]
Sent: 	Tuesday, May 14, 1996 5:23 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Re[2]: 307 V8


     Sorry, I'm up in WA State, can't help you with a mechanic.  That's=20
     funny because the Edelbrock catalog says it will only fit the 307 =
with=20
     5A heads.  I thought that was strange that it wouldn't fit, and who =
am=20
     I to argue since you obviously got it to fit!
    =20
     Any installation problems with that Edelbrock intake?  The catalog=20
     says the cruise linkage won't clear.  If you have cruise, any =
problems=20
     with that?  Are the vacuum ports and thermal vacuum switches in=20
     roughly the same place?
    =20
     Thanks in advance!
    =20
     Tom L.

______________________________ Reply Separator =
_________________________________
Subject: RE: 307 V8
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    5/14/96 4:24 AM
    =20
Tom My 307 on my older 1988 cutlass has roller cams but i put a =3D=20
edlebrock preformer intake on it...currently it has 30,000 miles on that =
=3D=20
install and no damage to the eng. It gained some horseies but more =3D=20
noticeable was the gas milage....went from 26 to 28 on the hwy....know =
=3D=20
of anybody in the houston area that does quality work on the 307??=3D20



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- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB427F.329AB4A0--

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 08:36:01 -0300
Subject: Re: Name that craft...was Re: Olsmobubble

> From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>

> 	Or how about Torotanic?  Or maybe Four Fifty Fun? (did someone else 
> already suggest that?)  I know, I know.  C-h-e-e-z-y!
> 	
> 			Scott
> 		1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98
> 

Seeing how they 'fixed' the network here (i.e., can't get to my work
directories), I was able to find time to give this much thought
(a good 15 - 30 secs anyways)...

"Oldsmotania" ?

"Your Father's Boatmobile" ?

"Held For Ransom" (as in E. Olds) ?

"Over-Achieva" ?

"Clipper Supreme SX" ?

OK, sorry for wasting bandwidth, we now return to our regular programming... :)



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'88 Cadillac Brougham, a.k.a. 'Big Blue' -- Olds 307 Powered!!
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 18:04:22 -0300
Subject: Re: electrical problems WINNER

Lowell V. Paden, Jr. wrote:
> 
> Well.. even I am embarrassed..
> 
> And the winner is.. the voltage regulator. $9.99 at Advance Auto Parts. (The
> Delco Remy cover does not fit over the new assembly, so I couldn't re-use that.)
> 
> This was what I originally suspected, but thought the voltage regulator was
> in the alternator. I replaced the alternator, but the problem persisted.
>....
> This fixes my flicker problem. I drove the car last night and it was like
> old times again. One nagging question.. can this also be the resolution to
> my intermittent starting problem? Of course, if that problem crops up again,
> I will certainly be checking the battery cables and ground.
> 
> Thanks again, friends.
> 
> Lowell Paden
> '72 Olds Cutlass convertible 350 2bbl 191K miles.


I WIN, I WIN. THAT'S ME.... What do I win?

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 13:00:02 -0300
Subject: Re: Module Madness

Bob Valentine wrote:
> 
> ... and it's rumor that electronics don't like the uneven power from 
> the old regulators.

More than a rumor.

The 66 Toro and Mike

- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 12:57:19 -0300
Subject: Re: electrical problems

Lowell V. Paden, Jr. wrote:
> 
> And the winner is.. the voltage regulator.

Cool!
 
> One nagging question.. can this also be the resolution to
> my intermittent starting problem?

Doubtful.  You may actually have two problems.  Other than part of the 
charging circuit when running, the regulator doesn't have anything to do 
with starting.  Cranking, you've only got the battery, starter solenoid, 
starter motor, ignition switch, and associated wiring.  If it happens 
again, wack battery terminals, block ground strap, etc.  If it clears the 
problem -- bad contact.  If not, jumper the starter (small post to large 
post with screwdriver).  If it cranks, switch and/or wiring problem.  If 
not, it's starter time.

Glad you got it fixed.

The 66 Toro and MIke


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 10:13:42 -0300
Subject: Re: electrical problems 

>This was what I originally suspected, but thought the voltage regulator was
>in the alternator. I replaced the alternator, but the problem persisted.

One bit of trivia I learned from the J.C. Whitney catalog years ago was how
to tell whether the alternator had an internal or external regulator (most
useful when the thing is sitting on a shelf somewhere and you can't just
look for the regulator on the firewall of the car): Check the side socket
connector, where the fat red 10-gauge wire and the, um, other wire plug in.
An internal-regulator model has the two contacts side-by-side:

[ ][ ]

An external-regulator has them stacked:

[ ]
[ ]

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 13:09:08 -0300
Subject: Re: electrical problems WINNER

Fernando Proietto wrote:
> 
> I WIN, I WIN. THAT'S ME.... What do I win?

The old regulator.      :)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 13:11:50 -0300
Subject: Re: battery drain/windows

buehner wrote:
> 
> Windows drain?  Umm, is that Windows 95?!  Sounds realistic!   :)

Arf-arf.  AS Bob Barry said:

> C:\WINDOWS C:\WINDOWS\GO C:\PC\CRAWL

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 10:46:36 -0300
Subject: Re: Misc Stuffs 

>   btw, I *believe* the 70-72 big cars used the same or nearly so mirror- with
>nearly 90 degree base-post interface as viewed from front or back [not side].
>Good luck. -Chris-

Also pay attention to which base gasket came from which car. The Cutlasses,
Regals, etc. of the mid-'70's used the same mirror, but with a different
angle of base gasket to compensate for the different angle of door skin
from one model to another.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 10:42:21 -0300
Subject: Re: Wax on...Wax off-- removing oxidation 

>> Need to know a way to easily (ha!) remove oxidation.  Does one exist?  I've
>> tried polishing compound, and while it does work, it is quite tiring and
>> time consuming.
[...]
>	I have always had good results 
>with Meguiars Fine or Medium cut cleaner, but it's always a *lot* of 
>elbow grease!  Have you tried useing an orbital polisher, or maybe a DA 
>sander with polishing pad on it? [...] Anyone else have any 
>experience with this?

Yes, I've used Turtle Wax or DuPont white liquid finish restorer and a
power buffer, and the results are always great. Couple of things to note:

- -- Don't skimp on applying the liquid. It does tend to spray a bit when it
spins off the buffer, but you'll be following up with paste wax anyway so
you'll be wiping the dry excess off later. It's tempting once you see the
oxidized paint coming off to just keep on going and do an entire panel
with the buffer without stopping to add a bit more liquid, but you can
end up just grinding old paint back onto the surface.

- -- Don't hold the buffer flat onto the panel like you see the bimbo model
holding it in the advertising. Hold at a slight angle so you're only doing
the work with a quarter of the disk.

And generally watch to make sure you don't snag a corner of trim with the
buffer pad, burn off ridges, etc. When you're done, you should be down to
clean fresh paint, and you should immediately follow up with a paste wax
to protect it and prevent it from immediately starting to oxidize again.
In other words, you should have to do this only once per car, and you
_have_ to wax when you're done.

Put the wax on by hand, not with the buffer. It will be a breeze to apply
and polish off because you won't have to fight with the dried excess wax
to get it to let go of the oxidized paint, because there won't _be_ any
oxidized paint to speak of.

The above is personal experience only, and somebody from Meguiars or
someplace like that might have palpitations over some of the things I 
said, but this is what's worked for me.  :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 12:11:44 -0300
Subject: Re: 73 98 avail, got a cam? 

In a message dated 96-05-15 01:54:02 EDT, you write:

>Hating life. 3 week back order [and you know how THAT usually goes... then 3
>more, then next summer...] on the cam from Mondello... That'd kill most of
the
>racing season... I can't wait. If any opf you have a new JM-28-29 cam or
>similar- 300 degrees or so duration, over .500 lift, let me know...

I've got an old cam ground by Chet Herbert (remember his ads in the back of
Hot Rod?), with .513" lift, ~280 deg.(?) intake and 295 degrees exhaust. It
is new and unused; I just never got around to the project is was supposed to
go into. I can pick it up today and ship it tomorrow. E-mail me if you're
interested; and I'm always interested in trades (alum. small-block intakes
are high on my wish list right now, though that list may be revised once my
parts come back from being 'fluxed).

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 12:12:04 -0300
Subject: More parts advice sought (bolts, this time). 

Among the things that I only see in JM's catalog are rod bolts, main studs
and a windage tray for my 403. These are listed as ARP bolts, though I
believe the windage tray is Mondello's own design.

Any good (or bad) experiences with these parts?

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 21:31:41 -0300
Subject: Re: electrical problems WINNER

Mike Frederick wrote:
> 
> Fernando Proietto wrote:
> >
> > I WIN, I WIN. THAT'S ME.... What do I win?
> 
> The old regulator.      :)
> 
> The 66 Toro and Mike
> 
> --
> Michael R. Frederick, CEO
> Edison3, Incorporated
> Tampa, Florida
> (813) 210-8649

Geessh...If I had know I wouldn't of played in the first place.....Just kidding, 
glad to of helped anyone anytime...

But just as a matter of consilation, lets mention what the door prizes are 
first!....eheheh..

Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 15:21:43 -0300
Subject: Re: HEI Question follow-up 

Pat,
Great names.  My '70 Delta is now many peices of 88!

If you haven't already bought and installed the wires, you might want to 
consider a set of "spiral core" wires, and a set of wire seperators.  The 
"spiral core" wires are touted to be the best for longevity, interference 
suppression and delivering the spark.  I picked up a set for under $30 a 
few years ago - no need to buy Mallory or Accel brand at $$$.

The wire seperators should provide 1/2" clearence between wires so there is 
almost no chance of inducing the secondary voltage to an adjacent wire.

These tidbits (?) are from Smokey Yunick's book.  Highly recommended.  Just 
my two tidbits!

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    "Oldsmobile - powerful roadsters with big V8s"
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 15:06:18 -0300
Subject: Wanted 455 rods

Folks, spoke with Dick Miller this morning... he is looking for 455 rods,
paying $5 each for 'em. That means I can get more out of just the RODS from a
455 than Padnos charges for the engine... 'Course, I gotta extract 'em.

Any of you feel like unloading a few, he says box 'em up, include an invoice,
send them to him- address is on Windemere in Jackson, MI- prolly detailed on
Bryce's web page...
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 15:37:15 -0300
Subject: trans woes

The race car- 78 Cutlass, big block, TH400 trans...

Trans seems to be misbehaving... like at 40 mph, it'll 'hunt' or seem to be
undecided about whether to be in 2nd or 3rd. Surges, sort of... rpm's go
up-down-up-etc.

I 1st noticed this when breaking in the new engine. Driver claims that it was
not shifting right last year even, failing to hit 3rd gear. He's not exaclty
mentally enhanced, so I thought maybe he was leaving it in D or something
rather than manually shifting. He said the shift light would fail to come on,
so I figured it was auto-shifting short of the light's activation rpm.

When I experienced it, it seemed almost like the modulator vacuum line fell
off, but no. Then I figured maybe that 28-29 cam was so rumpity that the vacuum
was insufficient, but here it is with the Toro 425 back in, nice "mild" [by
comparison] cam, trans still falters.

It has a Fairbanks 'Street Fighter' Tork Converter. Fluid level is OK and fluid
does not appear burnt.

Any input from trans experts appreciated.
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: Bob Valentine <ravalent@liii.com>
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 16:16:06 -0300
Subject: Re: 70 ? Cutlass available

> David Paulison wrote:
> > 
> >
> > If you can't tell from the grill, look at the front signal lamps in the
> > bumper. Round lamps=1969 or 1970, rectangular lamps=1971 or 1972.  Of

     Ahhh.... isn't it the other way around?   

     71-72 = round lamps
     6?-70 = square lamps

     Otherwise I've had 6 Cutlass' with the wrong front bumper.   ;^>

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                    --> ravalent@liii.com  <--
        "Experience varies directly with equipment ruined"

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 17:25:51 -0300
Subject: Re: E head - hard seats; was: ooops 

I guess we can overlook that mistake :) !

Do all E's (non 442 and non Toro) have the hard seats?

Are all Olds factory seats induction hardened, instead of being fitted with 
hardened seat inserts?

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    "Oldsmobile - powerful roadsters with big V8s"
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu

- ---------------
OK, so the FAQ says that I had previously found that E's do NOT
have hard seats...

I always claimed to not have a memory.
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 16:48:11 -0300
Subject: stuffs

> BUT ... I seems like everytime I fix something, I break something else.

Huhm, must be catching... :)

> There _should_ be a retainer on the rod just below the casting inside the
> block where the distributor gear and rod meet.  It could be gone because it

Well, on the lower end of the drive rod...

> It shouldn't come out with the distributor, in fact if those retaining rings
> are still on it would be damn difficult, if not next to impossible to get it
> out.  The retainers are an interference fit and how could you grab the shaft
> to pull on it?   Bob Handren

That pretty well describes what it's like to extract the dist'r with OPDR
attached... via death grip. -Chris-

> Should stay in, but years of turning the distributor can cause it to wear
                      ^^^^^
> and stick inside the distributor, causing the shaft to come out with the
> distrubutor.  There is little press on retainer on the shaft between the oil

Well, I vote for high-rpm use causing big loads from the oil pump to cram the
OPDR into the dist'r gear... The 66 Toro engine went 30 years w/o a problem,
took factory dist'r out fine, put in HEI, raced a bit, tried to extract HEI to
swap to mechanical-only unit... it was STUCK, and stripped off them washers in
the extraction. -Chris-

> retainer can get stuck on the oil pickup screen on the oil pump.  You'll
> probably have to use a pair of needle-nose pliers or something to put the
> shaft back in.  Make sure it goes down into the oil pump.  Should be OK once
> it's back together. Dave Paulison

Well, I always just drop them into the obvious hole down in the dist'r hole,
then use a 5/16" socket taped to a 1/4" extension to wiggle it and turn it
until it falls into the OP's drive socket. Easy as pie. While you're there, you
can pre-lube the engine if that's necessary. -Chris-

> From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
> Careful.  In '70, a 9:1 2bbl, 10.25:1 2bbl and  a 10.25:1 4bbl were
> available among the 455 Rocket engines.  Not that the difference is much,
> just something to be aware of.

Yeah, even the 'low compression', at 9.0:1, was a point better than the
smoggers, at 8:1... Hmmm, I wonder if smogger 350's had really small dish
pistons so that they could get 8.2 or so CR out of #8 heads.. that'd mean that
a smogger 350 with earlier heads might jump up to 10.5:1 or so CR...-Chris-

> By the way, I didn't mean to impugn the good name of your car by calling
                               ^^^^^^
Whoa, you're stretching my vocabulary, there!

>      Right before I left I sold my 68 442 Post Coupe to a friend.
> Hated to get rid of it, but could not move it all the way out here. I

Sure, then a month later I get my inheritance $... Dang! -Chris-

>      I'm pretty close to Chicago and the twin cities.  Does anybody
> here know of any shows/swap meets that would be worth going to?  Also,

the all-Olds swap meet at the headquarters, June???

> From: Bneuw30@aol.com
> Subject: Re: 70 ? Cutlass available
> I am looking for a 70 Cutlass Hardtop.  Is this a 2dr sedan?

Why, yes, it is. Those 4-doors are not even worth mentioning, right? :)

- --4-door benefits--
> Plus it's easier to get in and out of a 4-door
> passengers getting into the back seat don't have to go through all the
> contortions of climbing over a folded front seat, which is a great way to get
> all kinds of extra scuff marks on the front seatback and door pillars.
> And they're cheaper, too.  :-) Andrew C. Green

Had a 4-dr 76 Regal for a while; I swear it was *invisible* to the cops... We
better knock it off before the Toro brigade get all bummed out- they can't have
a 4-door unless they make it themselves! Wait, weren't the manual trans Toros
4-doors... -Chris-

> I'm stumped too. Andrew C. Green

Me too. -Chris-

>      I'd like to think so....at least its different.

Kinda why some of us have OLDS and not say a Camaro or Chevelle...

>      funny because the Edelbrock catalog says it will only fit the 307 with
>      5A heads.  I thought that was strange that it wouldn't fit, and who am
>      I to argue since you obviously got it to fit!

Sounds to me like they are saying that it will not fit up to the tiny-port
heads like the 7A's on the 307, 260s' heads, etc. pre-76 SB's- no problem,
right? -Chris-

If the rod is too loose in the dist. then your rod may be too worn. Don't
install it. Get another one. There's a chance that it may turn completely in
the dist. and thro your timing way off, not to mention put small steel filings
into you engine.

Not quite... timing goes:
  crank-cam-dist'r gear- points [or magnetic trigger]

The bottom of the dist'r gear also drives the oil pump via that 5/16" hex rod
8-1/8" long. If that rod were to spin in the dist'r gear, the timing would not
be altered, but the oil pump would not be driven, and we know what happens to
engines with no oil pressure, don't we :)  -Chris-

> Because you will have to rotate the dist. counter clock wise in order to
> advance it....

Well, just to clear up the confusion...
  Std. rotation of the Olds dist'r is CCW; therefore, rotating the housing *CW*
advances the timing, and rotating the housing the same direction as the normal
dist'r rotation will retard timing...
  Point is well taken that you want to end up w/ enough room to swing the
housing back-n-forth a bit to alter the timing... -Chris-

> From: Lucas Frick <frick@macrochip.com>
> What is the procedure for making sure that the dist drive gear is =
> matched to the correct position on the cam?  I had a friend line it up, =
> after about 5 incorrect tries.  I had a one in 26 chance of getting it.  =
> Talk about some backfires.  I remember something about pointing the =
> rotor at No.1 and pulling the spark plug on No.1 to make sure the piston =
> is at the top, but thats about it.

Time for a refresher course in the engine basics... on installing the dist'r,
you are setting it to make spark happen when it should where it should. Though
not necessary, this is usually based on cylinder #1 [that's what the timing
mark is for/from- that and Cyl. #6...]

 1- SET THE ENGINE TO 'THE RIGHT TIME' FOR SPARK TO OCCUR. Set the engine to TDC
or maybe a few degrees before TDC, on cyl #1's firing point... between the
compression & power strokes. Sometimes, when the timing mark is at TDC, #1
cylinder is at TDC between xst & intake strokes- NOT a good time for a spark...
How do ya tell? Well, various methods.... others can relate some, too... I just
found a neat way, IF you have an air adapter to put air pressure into the
cylinder via the spark plug hole... At TDC X/I [WRONG place], the I & X valves
are both a wee bit open. SO... set to TDC, the apply a TINY air leak [too much
might make crank spin] thru the air hose, and listen [with say a hose to your
ear...] for air leakage at the intake [carb] and xst [tailpipe]. If you are at
TDC compression [correct place], there should be NO discernable air leakage
sounds either place. It works for me...

  2- SET THE DIST'R TO MAKE THE SPARK HAPPEN RIGHT THEN. Install the dist'r,
with the rotor set to go to it's desired location as it turns a bit while
sliding down the cam gear, and the housing oriented so that the vacuum canister
is reachable by its hose, and can swing a bit to alter timing. HEI's like to
have the Rotor pointing to the driver, essentially, or just left of straight
back, for optimal wire routing. Other than wire routing, the dist'r really does
not care which terminal on the cap it points to, as long as YOU make sure that
that terminal gets cyl #1's wire...  P&C caps are generally shown using the
terminal just left of FRONT for #1, such that the rotor points about to
cylinder #1 when it's time to fire it.

  3- MAKE THAT SPARK GO TO THE PLACE IT SHOULD BE. Note where the rotor points-
that will be where you install the #1 plug wire. Turn dist'r housing SAME dir'n
as normal rotor rotation until AFTER the "spark-making event" has happened
[i.e., points closed, or thingys lined up in HEI (sorry for technical jargon,
hang with me...)]. Then, turn housing back, OPPOSITE direction to rotor
rotation, until spark-making event has JUST occured [points opened (ohmmeter or
test light/ buzzer very handy) or thingys lined up]. Then snug down the dist'r
hold-down so you can barely turn housing by hand.

That's the basic procedure. Easy, once you understand what you are trying to
achieve and how to do so... -Chris-

> Chris, I think the "one low compression piston" *hevy mechanic worked on a
> '72 Delta I found - 1 'J' head and 1 'E' head.  With the restrictive ports
> on the 'J', I wonder how that thing ran.

Heh, I was a car once in a boneyard in AZ, had one BB head, one SB head... I
pointed it out to the yard guy, and he said yeah he knew about it- and the car
would "only go in circles"... :) -Chris-

> Found a '71 Toro with 'C' heads - looked original.  'C' heads in '71?

I'd say what you saw there was a G, with a lot of grime. '71=G, '72=Ga...

> - - maybe 10-15%.  Saw a '65-'68 Delta 88 I wanted to find the owner of.
> Black, 4dr, nice paint-looked original, nice chrome, with the horizontal 4"
> by 10" tail lights in the bumper.  Anyone know what year that is?
> David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157

Sounds like the lites on my '65, if we're talking 4" tall x 10" wide.

> If you can't tell from the grill, look at the front signal lamps in the
> bumper. Round lamps=1969 or 1970, rectangular lamps=1971 or 1972.  Of
> course, you know, if you really want to know the year, check the VIN.  :)
> Oops, got that backwards -- rectangular=1969 or 1970, round=1971 or 1972.
> Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme

Yeah, I haven't been THAT interested in it... yet. Bigger fish to fry,
ya know... -Chris-

> >The trick is
> >to try and install the HEI with the rotor facing the No.1 piston. As close
> > as possible.
>
> Assuming, of course, that #1 is at TDC.
> Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme

Well, not exactly... HEI likes #1 to be at the left rear of the dist'r for best
wire routing. According to Chilton's, *the* experts on all things automotive
[*cough* *ahem*]
 Let's also not that in the 2-revolution cycle of the engine, cylinder #1 is at
'TDC' *twice*, once when the spark is due, and once between xst & intake
strokes- be sure you got the right one...
   --Hey, Dave, great stuff to add to the FAQ... ---

- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 18:10:38 -0300
Subject: Re: I'm Back! 

Dan,
I'd like to talk Cedar Rapids parts yards with you.  Send me your e-mail 
address!

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    "Oldsmobile - powerful roadsters with big V8s"
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 02:09:34 -0300
Subject: Re: trans woes

Chris Brown Witt wrote:
..
> Trans seems to be misbehaving... like at 40 mph, it'll 'hunt' or seem to be
> undecided about whether to be in 2nd or 3rd. Surges, sort of... rpm's go
> up-down-up-etc.
> 

Chris I'm not a tranny expert by far, but I'll share my experiences with you. In my TH350 I added 
a B&M shift kit. One day, after a couple of months after installing it, I was roming around some 
streets with my; now wife, house looking and since you can't very well zoom by I was going about 
somehwat 10-15 miles/hour. The tranny would go in and out of 1st and 2nd. It couldn't decide which 
gear. Now, how does this relete to you? Well, have a look at the valve body plates and see if they 
put in a shift kit. Chances are the thing is behaving correctly, and that when you go through the 
gears at a higher RMP it won't happen as such. The shift kit could of been programmed for strip 
use, level 3. Mine was programmed for street use, level 2.. Level 3 may just have a higher shift 
point.
I hope this helps you.

Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 17:28:08 -0300
Subject: Re: stuffs

At 04:48 PM 5/15/96 -0300, you wrote:

>Why, yes, it is. Those 4-doors are not even worth mentioning, right? :)

Hey, now, you're treading on thin ice there ;)

>Had a 4-dr 76 Regal for a while; I swear it was *invisible* to the cops... We
>better knock it off before the Toro brigade get all bummed out- they can't have
>a 4-door unless they make it themselves! Wait, weren't the manual trans Toros
>4-doors... -Chris-

Yeah, the manual trans 4-door Toros with the Cadillac engine.  You know they
had special carburetors for those, too...very rare! 

> If you can't tell from the grill, look at the front signal lamps in the
> bumper. Round lamps=1969 or 1970, rectangular lamps=1971 or 1972.  Of
> course, you know, if you really want to know the year, check the VIN.  :)
> Oops, got that backwards -- rectangular=1969 or 1970, round=1971 or 1972.
> Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme

>   --Hey, Dave, great stuff to add to the FAQ... ---

You mean that stuff??   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

 "I was put on this earth to accomplish a certain number of things;
    right now I'm so far behind, I'll never die"  --Calvin

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 17:29:20 -0300
Subject: Re: 70 ? Cutlass available

At 04:16 PM 5/15/96 -0300, you wrote:
>
>
>> David Paulison wrote:
>> > 
>> >
>> > If you can't tell from the grill, look at the front signal lamps in the
>> > bumper. Round lamps=1969 or 1970, rectangular lamps=1971 or 1972.  Of
>
>     Ahhh.... isn't it the other way around?   
>
>     71-72 = round lamps
>     6?-70 = square lamps
>
>     Otherwise I've had 6 Cutlass' with the wrong front bumper.   ;^>
>
>                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  


Yes, it is.  Read my other post...
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

 "I was put on this earth to accomplish a certain number of things;
    right now I'm so far behind, I'll never die"  --Calvin

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 19:15:07 -0300
Subject: Re: stuffs 

In a message dated 96-05-15 16:51:57 EDT, you write:

>We better knock it off before the Toro brigade get all bummed out- they
can't have
>a 4-door unless they make it themselves! 

I beg to differ! (:

1966 Toronados came in 4 and 6 door model Limosines. There was a fleet of
them used here at General Billy Mitchell Field for years. There are two
parked on some guys lawn near Janesville (WI) for sale. I havent had time to
cruise up there to inspect them, but occassionally I get a call from buddies
who go by there and give me "sighting" updates!

GM also had several prototype Toronado station wagons (Toro front clip
attached to a Vista Cruiser body), although it never came to production. ):

Greg K.

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 18:23:39 -0300
Subject: Re: stuffs 

>GM also had several prototype Toronado station wagons (Toro front clip
>attached to a Vista Cruiser body), although it never came to production. ):

This is getting a little off-topic, but a body shop in Evanston, IL had
at least two Cadillac Eldorado station wagons that I think they probably
made themselves (i.e. seeing more than one on the lot at the same time
kind of looks like they're building 'em, not fixing someone else's...)

They were using early-'80's Eldos, with the angular lines and thin vertical
taillights, and grafting Impala wagon roofs on, or something like that. The
results looked pretty slick, better than I'm probably making them sound.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 22:45:52 -0300
Subject: Re: stuffs

Toronado66@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 96-05-15 16:51:57 EDT, you write:
> 
> >We better knock it off before the Toro brigade get all bummed out- 
> >they can't have a 4-door unless they make it themselves!
> 
> I beg to differ! (:
> 
> 1966 Toronados came in 4 and 6 door model Limosines. There was a fleet 
> of them used here at General Billy Mitchell Field for years. There are 
> two parked on some guys lawn near Janesville (WI) for sale. I havent 
> had time to cruise up there to inspect them, but occassionally I get a 
> call from buddies who go by there and give me "sighting" updates!
> 
> GM also had several prototype Toronado station wagons (Toro front 
> clip attached to a Vista Cruiser body), although it never came to 
> production. ):
> 
> Greg K.

Nah-nah-na-nah-nah.  So there!      ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 19:50:01 -0300
Subject: Re: stuffs

> This is getting a little off-topic, but a body shop in Evanston, IL had
> at least two Cadillac Eldorado station wagons that I think they probably
> made themselves (i.e. seeing more than one on the lot at the same time
> kind of looks like they're building 'em, not fixing someone else's...)
> 
> They were using early-'80's Eldos, with the angular lines and thin vertical
> taillights, and grafting Impala wagon roofs on, or something like that. The
> results looked pretty slick, better than I'm probably making them sound.
> 
> Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431

I think I've seen Cadillac station wagons & "El Camino Type" Cadillacs
used as flower vehicles by funeral homes.  Must have been a place that 
customized them somewhere.  I haven't seen one in a long time.  The idea
may have gotten too expensive.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-8007    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v



 

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 20:07:46 -0300
Subject: Re: San Diego ramblings 

In a message dated 96-05-14 16:20:54 EDT, you write:

> with the horizontal 4" 
>by 10" tail lights in the bumper.  Anyone know what year that is?

Sounds like a '68?  Need more info

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 20:07:39 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Comfortron 

In a message dated 96-05-14 14:52:50 EDT, you write:

>Did they ever hook up an A/C guage set?  The low and high pressures and 
>fluxuations would also indicate the cause of the problem.

Pressures where checked many times.  Evidently the readings led the mechanic
to believe that the components where bad, rather than thinking that the
system might be clogged.  Two veteran Olds mechanics, one of them was the one
who serviced this car for the 27 years, agreed with mechanic number 1
thinking it was the POA or exspansion valve.  It seems like this was a tough
call.  But then, how did I figure out the answer when I hardly know the
evaporator from the condensor.  I would have thought (knowing that that's
what fixed the problem) that the receiver/dryer would have been his next
logical guess, but he didn't think that would fix the problem when I
suggested it.  Proved him wrong!  As for the dealership, I don't go there
anymore, but not because of this fiasco.  I specifically told the service
advisor that I only wanted this mechanic touching this car because he has 20+
years of service with them.  He worked on these cars when they were only a
few years old, this led me to believe that he knew what he was doing.  Guess
he proved me wrong!  Now I have my fingers crossed, hoping the A/C keeps
working, while I look for another repair shop.  Not an easy job.

Paul

------------------------------

From: Paul Elosge <elosge@eco.twg.com>
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 21:20:52 -0300
Subject: Re: stuffs

Robert Lawrence (lawrencr@gdls.com) writes:

> I think I've seen Cadillac station wagons & "El Camino Type" Cadillacs
> used as flower vehicles by funeral homes.  Must have been a place that 
> customized them somewhere.  I haven't seen one in a long time.  The idea
> may have gotten too expensive.

This reminds me of a trip I made to the Cadillac plant in Detroit in
1970. Back in the days of body-on-frame construction. On the main floor
of the building bare frames started off at one end. I think they started
with the frame upside down, putting components like the suspension,
brake lines, exhaust on it. Then they flipped it over and dropped in
the engine and transmission.

After the frame was complete, the body was dropped down from the second
floor and attached to the frame. The body was contructed at a factory
across the street, and came across through an overhead bridge. After
the body was attached to the frame, the front fenders, grille, and bumper
were installed, and the car was complete.

Occassionally on the assembly line, mixed in with the finished cars, were
these frames with front sheet metal forward of the windshield installed,
a steering column sticking up from the frame, and a big box sitting on
the middle of the frame. But NO body! The box contained all of the
assorted trim pieces for the car, like the taillights, nameplates, wheel
covers, interior bits and pieces.

These cars were destined for custom coachwork, either limousines,
hearses, ambulences and such. Apparently there must have been a fairly high
percentage of custom coachwork cars still being made back then for them
to bother assembling them this way. From what I remember, Cadillac was
the only make at the time that was still doing this. I believe today they
probably take a normal finished car (especially considering unit body cars)
and start cutting/dismantling/etc. from there.

- - Paul Elosge

------------------------------

From: ws6transam@voyager.net (Daniel R Burk)
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 20:37:52 -0300
Subject: Build your own flow bench

I've been talking to that great resource of wisdom and wit, Chris "Wisdom" Witt
about building a flow bench.   I thought I could do it with a section of
schedule 40 PVC and a good strong Sears shop-vac, developing 100 CFM @ 10" of
water.   It turns out that my assumptions were wrong, and what I need is really
about 600-900 CFM at 28" of water (about 1 PSI).   I guess the Superflow benches
use a 3 phase electric motor that puts out about 5 horsepower.   Hmmm...  

        Maybe I can hook a blower drive up to my 11 horse lawn tractor PTO and
find a used 6-71 roots blower, hook it to some 2.5 inch schedule 40 PVC and
run it through a big heat exchanger/intercooler...  

Say, does anyone have any experience with flow benches?

        -- Dan.

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 20:36:46 -0300
Subject: Re: electrical problems WINNER 

In a message dated 96-05-15 09:14:57 EDT, you write:

>I WIN, I WIN. THAT'S ME.... What do I win?
>
>

What do you mean YOU win?  I was first!

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 20:36:47 -0300
Subject: Re: stuffs 

In a message dated 96-05-15 16:02:27 EDT, you write:

>Heh, I was a car once in a boneyard in AZ

That must have been interesting for you.

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 20:36:40 -0300
Subject: Re: electrical problems 

In a message dated 96-05-15 01:29:07 EDT, you write:

>Well.. even I am embarrassed..

Don't be! 

>And the winner is.. the voltage regulator. $9.99 at Advance Auto Parts. (The
>Delco Remy cover does not fit over the new assembly, so I couldn't re-use
>that.)

Boo-Hiss!   Maybe that's why I didn't put the D/R cover on mine either.  Too
long ago, don't remember.

>This fixes my flicker problem. 

Cool.

Paul

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 20:42:39 -0300
Subject: Car Acronyms (long) (was Auto Humor)

ACURA   
        Awful,Crappy,Unreliable, Rusty Automobile
        Automobile Causes Unusual Road Accidents
        All Cars Usually Require Adjustment
        Any Child Understands Real Automobiles
        Another Case of a Useless Requested Acronym?

AMC
	A Moving Catastrophe

AUDI
        Accelerates Under Demonic Influence
	Always Unsafe Designs Implemented

BMW     
        Babbling Mechanical Wench
        Bad Motor Works
	Beastly Monstrous Wonder
        Beautiful Masterpieces on Wheels
        Beautiful Mechanical Wonder
        Big Money Waste
        Big Money Works
        Blasphemous Motorized Wreck
        Born Moderately Wealthy.
        Break My Windows
        Broken Money Waster
        Broken Monstrous Wonder
        Brutal Money Waster
        Bumbling Mechanical Wretch
        Big Money Waster
        Blasphemized Motorized Wreck
        Bastard Money Wielders 
	Bought My Wife
	Brutal Money Waster

BUICK   
        Beat Up Iranian Cookie Cutter
	Big Ugly Import Car Killer
        Big Ugly Indestructible Car Killer
        Built Under Inspection of Cooky Korean

CAMARO
        Can't America Make A Real One?

CHEVROLET       
        Car Has Extensive Valve Rattle On Long Extended Trips.
        Crappy Hot-Running Engines, Very Rusted Out, Lose Every Time
	Cracked Head, Every Valve Rattles, Oil Leaks Every Time
	Can Hear Every Valve Rap On Long Extended Trips
	Cheap, Hardly Efficient, Virtually Runs On Luck Every Time

CHEVY
        Cheapest Heap Ever enVisioned Yet 

CHRYSLER
        Car Having Really Yucky Stupid Lazy Engine Runs
        Could Have Remained Your Sickly Lame Elderly Relative's

CITROEN 
        Crap Interior Terrible Road-holding Owned Entirely by Nutters

DODGE
        Damn Old Dirty Gas Eater
	Dead or Dying Gorilla Excretment
	Dying Garbage Emitter
        Drips Oil, Drops Grease, Everywhere

DATSUN
        Detroit's Angry Towards Sneaky Unscrupulous Nips

FIAT    
        Failure in Automotive Technology
        Feeble Italian Attempt at Transportation
        Fix It Again Tony?
        Fix It All the Time
	Found in a Toilet

FORD
	Failed On Race Day
	First On Race Day
        First On Recall Day
        Fix Or Repair Daily
        Found on road dead
        Found On Russian Dump
	Fraternal Order of Restored DeSoto's
	F*#@$%! On Raw Deal
	F*#@$%! Owner Really Dumb
        (backwards) Driver Returns On Foot
	F***** Over Rated Disaster
	F****** Old Rebuilt Dodge
	F***, Our Ride Died
	First On Rust and Deterioration
	Fast Only Rolling Downhill
	Features O.J. and Ron's DNA

GM
	General Maintenance

GMC     
        Garage Man's Companion
        Generally Mediocre Cars
        Got More Crap
        Got Mechanic Coming
	Great Mountain Climber

GTO
	Gas, Tires, Oil
	Get Tires Out
	Get Those Orders
	Gone To Olds

HONDA
        Had One Never Did Again
	Helping Out Nips Destroying America
        How Odd - No Damn Acceleration
        Hell Of a Nice Damn Automobile

HYUNDAI
	Hope You Understand Nothing's Drivable And Inexpensive

IROC
	Idiot Riding On Credit
	It's Really Only a Camaro
	Italian Retard On Cocaine

ISUZU   
	God Bless You <g>

JEEP    
        Junk Electrical and Emissions Parts
        Jump Excitedly in Every Pothole.
        Jinxed Engine has Extra Parts
        Jumps Everything Ever Parked

MAZDA
        Model All Zoids Drive Aimlessly
	Most Always Zipping Dangerously Along

MG
	Mashed Genitals

MOPAR
        Mostly Old Parts And Rust
        Making A Zillion Dollars Annually
        Mitsubishi's Over Priced American Replicars

NISSAN
        Now In Some Shitty Automobile Nightmare
        Nasty Import Sucks Savings Away to Nippon
	Now In Stupid Shape, Always Nasty

OLDSMOBILE
        Oh Look Dammit, Some Massive Oil Burning Idiot's Leaking Everything
        Old Loose Dented Sheet Metal Outdated By Infamies Like Edsel
        Old Ladies Driving Slow making Others Behind Infuriatingly Late 
Everyday
	Overpriced, Leisurely Driven Sedan Made Of Buick's Irregular Leftover 
Equipment

PINTO
        Put In New Transmission Often

PLYMOUTH
        Please Let Your Mother Out <from> Under The Hood!
	Please Let Your Mechanic Operate Under The Hood
        
PONTIAC
        Poor Old Nitwit Thinks Its A Cadillac
	Pile Of Nuts Thrown In A Can
	Power Options Terrorize Indian's Antiquated Competition

PORSCHE 
        Puts Out Really Smoky Carbonate Hazardous Emissions
        Phased Out Racer-Still Can't Hold Engine
        Pulled Over Regularly So Cops Have Enough

RENAULT
        Retarded Engine No Acceleration Ugly Lump of Trash

SAAB    
        Send Another Automobile Back
	Society of Assnine Automotive Bacteriologists
	Swedish Automobile - Always Broken

STP
	Stop Those Pistons

SUBARU
        Send Undercover Boat And Radioactive Uranium

TOYOTA
        Taking Our Yen Out -- Thanks All
	Too Often Yankees Overprice This Auto

TRIUMPH
        The Risk Involving Useless Machinery Pays Heavily

VW      
        Very Worthless
	Virtually Worthless

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-8007    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 20:55:11 -0300
Subject: Boston Driving (was Re: GTOs and 'Olds' Ladies)

> Now Tim, I have a lot of relatives in the Boston area.  Having lived on both
> coasts of the continent and many places in between, the drivers in the Boston
> area are the craziest, stubbornest, etc., etc., drivers anywhere.
> 
> Would you believe I actually locked the wheels on a 23 foot motor home trying
> to miss the idjut that cut me off!  I don't think he could say we were
> difficult to see being two tone green on white, 8 feet across, 10 feet plus
> high and 23 feet long.

I worked for four months in Boston.  People expected you to pull out in
front of them.  Everybody slowed down or stopped to let others out of side 
streets.  If you didn't, they pulled out in front of you anyway.  Weird.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-8007    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 21:48:03 -0300
Subject: Re: stuffs 

In a message dated 96-05-15 19:49:08 EDT, you write:

>I think I've seen Cadillac station wagons & "El Camino Type" Cadillacs
>used as flower vehicles by funeral homes.  Must have been a place that 
>customized them somewhere.  I haven't seen one in a long time.  The idea
>may have gotten too expensive.
>
>
Somewhat off the topic, but interesting none the less:

These are called "Flower Cars" in the trade (Mortuary Busniess that is).  As
I am a Funeral Director, I am familiar with these vehicles. They are still
made today, but are conversions done by aftermarket companies. Years ago,
they were actually produced at the respective GM plant. The forerunners in
these types of special vehicles were Packard, Pierce Arrow, Cadillac, and a
few others in the 20's, 30's and 40's. 

Flower cars were used to transport the many flowers from the site of the
funeral to the church or cemetery. This was very popular from the 30's though
the early 50's. Today, they are more predominate in warm climates like
California and in the deep south. However, they are periodically used even
around here in Milwaukee. They are expensive and generally used by the "well
to do" or dignitaries. As more and more cemeteries are refusing to accept
flowers at the gravesite (due to disposal logistics) flower cars are
becomming obsolete.

I have never seen an Oldsmobile flower car (but that doesn't mean one was
never made). The closest I have seen to such a vehicle were the Olds 98
ambulances made in the 60's. 

Greg K. 

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 22:20:57 -0300
Subject: Timing is everything...was Re: stuffs

>   2- SET THE DIST'R TO MAKE THE SPARK HAPPEN RIGHT THEN. Install the dist'r,
> with the rotor set to go to it's desired location as it turns a bit while
> sliding down the cam gear, and the housing oriented so that the vacuum canister
> is reachable by its hose, and can swing a bit to alter timing. HEI's like to

	*snip*	

> > Assuming, of course, that #1 is at TDC.
> 
> Well, not exactly... HEI likes #1 to be at the left rear of the dist'r for best
> wire routing. According to Chilton's, *the* experts on all things automotive
> [*cough* *ahem*]
>  Let's also not that in the 2-revolution cycle of the engine, cylinder #1 is at
> 'TDC' *twice*, once when the spark is due, and once between xst & intake
        ^^^^^^^ 

> strokes- be sure you got the right one...

	
	Funny you should mention that.  After I got my 394 back in the car 
after I rebuilt it last summer, I had some trouble getting it fire.  
	
	It took me...well, lets just say it was a while...to figure it out.  
What it was doing was backfiring through the carb violently, and it 
didn't sound like it wanted to start.  I turned the distributor both 
ways, but nothing helped.  I figured it was a timing problem from the 
symptoms, but since I "did things right" I was mystified as to what the 
problem could be.  I had also replaced everything in the igniton system 
(short of the dist. itself.)  I had nightmares about having the gears off 
a tooth, which would mean pulling the engine out again (the timing cases on these 
things are my nemisis).  
	
	Anyway, it turned out that I put the distributor back in to fire on 
#1 TDC...on the exhaust stroke!!  Funny, I could swear that both of the 
valves were closed when I put the dist. back in.  (Moral--doubble check 
everything...and then have your friend doubble check everything...maybe make a 
checklist).  Anyway, pulling the dist. out enough to flip the rotor 180 
degrees solved the problem.  We had it running 10 minutes later.  Not 
long after the fuel pump failed...but thats another story!! 

	
				Scott 
			1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98 

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 00:36:16 -0300
Subject: Re: Boston Driving (was Re: GTOs and 'Olds' Ladies) 

In a message dated 96-05-15 19:59:47 EDT, you write:

>> Now Tim, I have a lot of relatives in the Boston area.  Having lived on
[snip]
>I worked for four months in Boston.  People expected you to pull out in
>front of them.  Everybody slowed down or stopped to let others out of side 
>streets.  If you didn't, they pulled out in front of you anyway.  Weird.

OK, this is an off-list topic, for sure, but I have to chime in, as I drove
in Boston for five years down the Comm Ave. Speedway (yes, they even have pit
lanes!), and then moved here to NY where I drive into the Bronx for work. A
few observations/warnings:

* Boston drivers are just plain stupid. Not crazy, but stupid. Not fast, not
wild, just stupid. Oblivious. The only one on the road, or so you would think
from the way they drive. Worst offenders? Volvos, of course (I used to live
near a dealership; driving by it was always a horrorshow).

*NY drivers are actually malicious. They double park, even when spaces are
available, not because they don't realize that people might be driving in
that lane, but because they *do* realize it and want to cause that trouble.

* Boston streets are most of the problem. If you ever find it, take a look at
the diagram of the Comm. Ave./Harvard Ave. intersection in Allston, as
depicted in the "Boston Driver's Handbook". If you've never been there, you'd
*swear* they were making it up!

* True of both places: If you don't know where you're going, they're not
going to tell you! Exits are completely unmarked, street signs are missing,
signs are incomplete.

* Also true of both: Yellow light rules are apparently in effect for at least
the first five seconds of red (so don't go when it turns green).

* NY only: Green light rules are in effect for the *last* five seconds of
red; if you are reasonably confident that the light might turn green, heck,
just go!

* Both places: Left turn on Red is allowed, from the _right_ lane(!).

* Boston, most sections: if you see a clear parking space shovelled from the
snow, with a little garbage pail or folding chair sitting there, *DO NOT PARK
THERE*!!! Doing so has caused mysterious loss of air from tires...

* Both places: it *really* helps to drive a car you don't like at all; if it
appears that you don't care about your car, then you've got a shot at getting
into traffic. If not, you have to wait for an out-of-towner to let you in.

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 00:41:05 -0300
Subject: Car Songs

I was just surfing through the Car Talk web page.  They have a
list of songs they have played on their show.  Almost all, if not all
are car songs, including: 

	"Rocket 88" by Jessie Stone
	"47 Olds" by Marc Nutter & Jim Schley-may
	"56 Oldsmobile" by Duke Merrick

I have never heard of any of these songs.  "In My Merry Oldsmobile"
was not in the list.

Also, I just read that the Olds 88 topped the list (J.D. Powers) for
highest quality made car for 1996.  I think that means fewest problems
reported in first three months of ownership.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-8007    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 01:06:58 -0300
Subject: need 425 piston

Anybody got a std-size 425 Toro/ Starfire piston? Need one, might take a set.

Bryce?

Need ASAP. Regular 425 I got... I need the 4.5cc *ultra* high compression units
that Starfire, Toro, Police engines had, '66-67...

Don't ask...

- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #176
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