
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

oldsmobile-digest          Tuesday, 12 March 1996       Volume 01 : Number 116


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 04:18:52 -0400
Subject: Re: transmission problem

     Uhh... may be a silly question, but did you hook up the TV cable?  You
     might want to check it and see that it's adjusted properly.  On those
     there's a button you push to release the cable, then move the throttle
     to wide open and release.

     Tom L.


______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: transmission problem Author:
oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET Date:    3/10/96 7:48 PM


 My 1985 cutlass supreme has the 3.8 v6 and th-200C three speed.  Back
     in December I lost reverse, so I found a replacement in a local paper
     for $100. Since then I have had the transmission installed and am
     having problems with this one as well.  It doesn't seem to want to
     shift into second gear, the only way that it will shift is if you let
     off of the gas or just gradually apply the gas until it gets up to
     speed, then it is fine.

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 15:33:52 -0400
Subject: Re: '65 Wheels

On Mon, 11 Mar 1996 map@usa.net wrote:
> I have a '65 Cutlass Convertible that I am restoring.  It has Ralley/Sport I
 > wheels on it now.  I understand that these were used in '66, not '65. The
sales > literature and catalogs show wire wheel covers and flat wheel covers
as options > in '65.  I think there was one other "sport" option, but cannot
find info on it. > > I would like info on the options that year and a place
to find the wire wheel > covers and "sport" options.

My literature shows there were 5 wheel options in '65, in addition to the
standard dog-dish hubcap. You're right in believing that the SSI's are a
later addition in that '66 was the first year they are shown in the
catalog. For '65 you could choose:

N95 - simulated wire wheel covers with spinners (nice)
N93 - custom deluxe wheel covers with spinners (sort of a semi-mag style,
very nice)
P02 - deluxe wheel discs (appear to have vents around the outer edge)
P01 - full wheel discs (the cheapest & plainest)
N98 - full chrome wheels. These were a surprise to me. They appear to be
a regular GM steel wheel that has been chromed. Probably sold with the
plain dog-dishes on them. Never seen these but I think they'd be very
nice and certainly unique.

Hope this helps.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 15:38:58 -0400
Subject: Year One Sale

I received a postcard from Year One today saying they are having a sale
this week in which they will give you a discount on everything in their
catalog if you quote code SS4 to them when placing your order. They don't
say how much of a discount they're offering. It's a winter-ending
celebration or some such thing.

I only mention it because the sale starts today and ends on the 16th, and
this is the first time I've received anything from them like this in time
to actually take advantage of it. Thought the rest of you might want to also.


Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 15:42:45 -0400
Subject: Re: transmission problem

>     Uhh... may be a silly question, but did you hook up the TV cable?  You
>     might want to check it and see that it's adjusted properly.  On those
>     there's a button you push to release the cable, then move the throttle
>     to wide open and release.

My thoughts exactly. If someone's been fussing with the carb linkage
recently, it might have been disconnected/messed-up and never reset.
Only tricky bit with this is that, um, it doesn't really "look" like
a pushbutton, at least not on mine. If you find the cable stop assembly
where it's clipped in through a metal bracket near the carb (from
which the bare inner cable emerges), you'll find out from pressing on
it at various angles which thingy is the clamp which lets go when you
push on it. Press the clamp in, manually turn the throttle linkage
all the way to the wide-open position (with the engine off :-) then
release the clamp, then release the linkage. Adjustment done.
- --
Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Benedict J Raia <br2a+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 15:53:08 -0400
Subject: '73 Ninety-Eight

Hey all,

Well I've definitely decided to sell off bits of my Delta 88 as opposed
to trying to work on it.  The reason?  I have spotted what can only be
my next car, a black '73 98.  (Kind of ironic, I was on my way to test
drive a '85 Civic when I found it, talk about opposites :)

It's got a 455, 95K on the odometer, a/c, cruise, power everything.
Looks really nice too.  He's asking $1,100.  Seems reasonable...I'm
wondering if this is a deal and if so how much of a deal.  Anyway I'm
going to drive it on Wednesday and see if I can pull myself away from it
afterwards.

Ben Raia
br2a@andrew.cmu.edu


------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 16:18:03 -0400
Subject: Re: '73 Ninety-Eight

At 03:53 PM 3/11/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Hey all,
>
>Well I've definitely decided to sell off bits of my Delta 88 as opposed
>to trying to work on it.  The reason?  I have spotted what can only be
>my next car, a black '73 98.  (Kind of ironic, I was on my way to test
>drive a '85 Civic when I found it, talk about opposites :)
>
>It's got a 455, 95K on the odometer, a/c, cruise, power everything.
>Looks really nice too.  He's asking $1,100.  Seems reasonable...I'm
>wondering if this is a deal and if so how much of a deal.  Anyway I'm
>going to drive it on Wednesday and see if I can pull myself away from it
>afterwards.
>
>Ben Raia
>br2a@andrew.cmu.edu


Ben,

It sounds beautiful!

Go for it, and put a picture on your WWW page.


************************************************
Daniel A. Gulino
Associate Professor and Graduate Chairman
Department of Chemical Engineering
Ohio University
Athens, Ohio  45701-2979
(614) 593-1495
(614) 593-0873 (fax)
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://www.ent.ohiou.edu/che/faculty/gulino.html
(or just open the window and shout!)
************************************************

------------------------------

From: Tony <3CQ9DELBALSO@vms.csd.mu.edu>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 17:15:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Washer pump

My problem is a little different,  the pump works great, I am always having to
refill the washer fluid container.  But the pump makes a lot of noise, and the
wipers are quite noisy as well.  Any suggestions?

Tony

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 09:18:55 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: 1964 Bruce McLaren Olds powered sportscar/Nassau Spee

     So who was it that was wondering what to with the rebuild of their
     Toro?  Money wasn't a concern if I recall correctly. . .

     Here ya go!  I'm sure it'll "drop right in".  :-)


______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: Re: 1964 Bruce McLaren Olds powered
sportscar/Nassau Speed W Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET Date:
3/11/96 11:18 AM

          As an interesting aside, the latest issue of Hemmings has
          one of the 1967 McKee Can-Am cars for sale.  This car was
          powered by an injected aluminum block 455 Olds motor, later
          turbocharged as well.

          If anyone's interested, the Can-Am car is for sale for only
          $125,000.

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com


------------------------------

From: "BARKER A." <ATBARKER@MSMACAB.REMNET.AB.COM>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 18:10:16 -0400
Subject: engine choice

I have a 81 Cutlass Supreme with a v6 and I want to put another engine in it,
I can get a 455 for $250.  I haven't bought the engine yet and I keep getting
different advice.  If I get a 350 instead, will the weight advantage alone
make the car faster than with the 455.  What would be the better engine to use
for trying to build a fast car?  This will be my daily driver also, will a 455
give me that much worse gas mileage than with a 350 with performace parts?

all oppinions are welcome, thank you.
Tony

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 18:13:18 -0400
Subject: break-in, misc.

> >Only carb listed for a '68 Toro regardless of A/C status is 7028252. No
> >specs listed on any of the rest of the things you asked for.
>
> Hmmm, no kidding?  My Service Manual has a big old chart in it showing the
> tag color, primary metering rod size (.044"), secondary metering rod code
> (AU), and metering jet number (.071").

Yeah, the manuals vary by year...

> The reason I'm looking for all of this stuff is because I need to replace my
> carb and I'm leaning toward a remanufacturer called Champion Parts.  They
> don't sell one for a '67, but they have one for a '68/'69 and with some info
> I could do the comparison I need.  My only other option is to buy a correct
> one (#7027131), already redone, from a company in NJ for $225 - not a bad
> price, but they want a good, identifiable core and mine has absolutely no
> tags, numbers or other items that would let me i.d. it.  Therefore, the
> company doesn't want mine, resulting in the price increasing to $375!!!  The
> Champion rebuilt one is about $150.  Arrrrgggghh!
> - -Gregg, the '67 Toro guy

Get the $150 special, long as the choke linkage can be adapted/ swapped off
your present carb... You have the wrong carb I take it? pre-68 ID is a round
tag about 3/4" dia. pressed into the  left side near the front. What's -131?
with K19 or something?

> If I find a non-windowed main 403 block, I'd like one of those 330 cranks.

Yeah, you find one of those solid-web 403's I might just GIVE you a forged
crank in xchange for some photos/ proof of existence...

> Why not get a diesel 350, and do it with a 425 crank...   It comes out
> to something like 454 cubic inches or something like that.   Modello
> does a kit for it, you supply the block.    Thing is bullet proof too.
> Mark

But, with the block full of Hard-Blok, getting adequate cooling is a tad
difficult. the 440, I think, is the largest bore he recommends for
water-cooled use.

> there any suggestions for breaking in the engine, how best to convince the
> rings to seat so he can cut himself some nice satisfying times?

>      It seems that as a youngster (about my age, 23) he had just rebuilt
>      his first engine with, of course, Chrome Moly rings. He said he drove
- --snip--
>      revs up to about 2500 and holds while the mech dumps the tranny fluid
>      right down the carb and into the intake while yelling over the
>      sputtering/ coughing engine that if Dan lets the engine _die_ it will
>      be ruined. Then after about five minutes of sputtering ect. the car
          ^^^^^^ not likely...

>      Eric Buckner

> Chris if you get the proper ring end gap and piston to wall clearance the
> break in required will be next to nill. The cam break in should suffice the
> entire engine. Most people put in a piston to wall clearance closer to that
> of a stocker instead of a performance engine and then require  a longer
> break in. Seeting the pistons up looser will also allow the engine to rev
> quicker, you can really feel the difference.

Cool. I see Mondello recommends a coat of ATF on the bores for quick break-in.
I'll try that.

I have poured all sorts of stuff down running engines- oil, ATF, water, BB's,
you name it... The worst, tho, was anothe guy's car, which needed some upper
cyl lube and a can of Bar's Leak in the radiator. Cyl lube sez 'pour 1/2 down
the carb, other half in the tank...' Why the hell they put  the 2 stuffs in
similar cans, I dunno... We get out to the parking lot, I open up a can, tell
him to keep it running, no matter what. I stick my head under the hood, start
pouring... pretty soon, these globs or pellets appear at the edge of the
can... I look at the label, OH SHIT! I wonder what to to, the engine is
faltering pretty bad by now... Look at the car, there's a HUGE cloud of VERY
white smoke totally covering about 5-6 cars... I quick open the other can,
pour ALL the cylinder lube down the carb, which helps a lot, and add the rest
of the Bar's Leak to the RADIATOR, where it belongs... I never did tell him
why it caused such a huge smoke cloud... ran fine, better than ever after
that.

> Rule of thumb: Bore your cylinders, use chrome-moly
>                Don't bore, use iron
>
> Chrome moly practically never seat unless the bore is true...
> Michael R. Hall               Ortonville, Michigan

I've heard that before. Wonder why. Mike, I respect your advice & opinion on
such matters... what possible difference could there be between a cylinder
whose surface has been refreshed by the hone at the machine shop, and one
which has been bored, then honed. Either way, you end up with the same hone,
right? Is it the subtle non-straightness of a worn-then-honed bore as opposed
to the machined-true-then-honed version?  Ijust don't see that big a diff...
at this point, I can easily change the rings... how strongly do you suggest I
do so, say, on a scale of 1-10? - --Chris--

- --69 that warms up poorly--
>   Or should I send my carb off to get it reconditioned? Would they do
> anything with the choke setup? Is there some other problem? I have replaced
> the choke pulloff. The choke butterfly moves freely.

Did you ADJUST the choke pulloff correctly? Sometimes, on older machines with
wear, you have to go beyond the book and tune it yourself- the 'correct' choke
pulloff opening might not make it run OK anymore- Start it cold, let it get
set, then move the choke plate with a screwdriver to a bit more open and/or a
bit more closed, see which way it prefers to be, then adjust it to that
setting. Then, adjust the choke thermo-spring to be fully open when nice &
warm. If it will not close the choke when cold, time for a new thermo-coil,
about $35?? or convert to electric-assist?
- --chris--

> I've made a career out of trying to get the 2-bbl carb on my '68 350 to
> work correctly. They are really finicky, it seems. In my case I have 2
> choices: I can set the choke where it will start instantly with just one
> pump of the pedal to set it, in which case it will then run really rich
> and sort of chug along until the engine warms up, or I can back it off a

That sounds like the pulloff is either not pulling the choke off at all, or
not to the perfect setting, be that the 'manual correct' setting, or not. - --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 18:16:35 -0400
Subject: 69 H/O for sale cheap

This weekend's paper {Lansing Stale Journal]

69 H/O original engine, replacement block, correct mirrors, wheels, NOS
spoiler, needs restoration $4500.

I called him, might go look-see. I haven't $4500 right now, but, shoot, D
heads, 69 H/O wheels & mirrors, spoiler, I could PART IT OUT and recover my $
on those parts... Heh.

Anybody want a project?

He said it's bee stored 6 years since he got it, was a daily driver b4 that.
Body dings, etc. VERY worthy project, though...

Lansing, MI, btw...

- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 18:15:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Reformulated Gas (fwd)

> >Californians driving old or high mileage cars had better
> >monitor their fuel systems for leaks with the new gasoline.
> >One possible solution for the carburetor needle valve
> >swelling is to replace it with a valve using precision
> >ground steel balls.
>
>      Sounds to me that our great grandchildren will have no idea what cars
> are supposed to be like!
>      Sure glad I'm in Montana.  I'll be 150 years old before that stuff gets
> here.  (I hope...)

	Well, maybe not that long, but it'll be a while.  The last
station here in Missoula just sold the last of their regular (yes folks,
the real thing) gas |(.  It's a station a friend of mine works at, and he
said they just sold the last of it, and the company they get it from
isn't sending any more.  The regular tank is now diesel.  Grrrr.  On the
bright side, since my Olds has only been out of the garage twice this
winter, I probibly have the last tank of regular in town!!
	
			
			Scott
		1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 18:01:16 -0400
Subject: Re[3]: 1964 Bruce McLaren Olds powered sportscar/Nassau Spee


     So who was it that was wondering what to with the rebuild of their
     Toro?  Money wasn't a concern if I recall correctly. . .

     Here ya go!  I'm sure it'll "drop right in".  :-)

          I'll bet there's a problem with that nasty hood clearance.

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 18:39:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Washer pump

>My problem is a little different,  the pump works great, I am always having
to >refill the washer fluid container.  But the pump makes a lot of noise,

If it works great, maybe the noise is typical for that model? A lot of
it can resonate through the body structure, even if it's on rubber grommet
mountings (which can get pretty rock-hard after a few years).

>and the
>wipers are quite noisy as well.  Any suggestions?

New wipers, and clean the glass with, um, Bon-Ami or similar cleaner. Seems
to me that I saw the stuff mentioned by name in an owner's manual recently.
Sometimes the angle of the blade to the glass can make them chatter
(and/or the glass has a lot of crud/sap/whatever on it), too, but I'd try
fresh blades and thorough glass cleaning first, before trying to reshape
the wiper arms.
- --
Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 18:41:47 -0400
Subject: Wiper Motor Adventures...was Re: Washer pump

> About the motor.  On my '64, there are several bolts (three, I think) that
> hold the motor to the firewall.  Remove these bolts and pull the motor
toward > yourself (disconnect all the wiring and washer hoses first).  If it's
like > my '64 (and I don't think it would THAT much different), the motor will
be > connected to the wiper transmission assembly via a cotter pin type >
arrangement.  You push out the pin (it's actually more like a flat > washer
open on one end that slips under the head of the pivot pin) and > that
disconnects the wiper motor from the transmission.  Then you can > try moving
the wiper transmission by hand.  As long as it moves freely, > the
transmission is OK and you can look to the motor as the problem.

	The setup on my 60 is a little different.  There are three or
four screws that go down through the cowl to hold the motor to that
instead of the firewall.  Yesterday I had fun trying to get the cowl
plate off to get to the screws, and I ended up spending a good part of my
afternoon just trying to figure out how to remove the wiper arms!!  I
don't know, they were sort of like some magic trick, or puzzle or
something.  You have to unscrew this retaining ring thats half hidden,
and things.  Anyway, I eventually got the cowl off, and after removing
years of dirt even managed to find the screws.  But by that time it was
too late to continue, so I'm heading back out there today to try and
remove the thing.  The transmission arms are only held on with a nut, so
it shouldn't be too tough (knock on wood).

>
> If it is the transmission that's somehow binding, you'll have to remove
> the cowl to get at it.  But it's just a matter of removing several screws.
> Just be careful not to scratch the finish as you are removing the screws and
> handling the cowl.
>
	I'm there so if they are the problem I'll know tonight.

> If the problem IS in the motor, my advice is to try to find another one that
> works.  I took apart the motor that came with my '64, and I couldn't see
> anything wrong.  I went to a junkyard (different from the one mentioned
> previously) and got another motor, this one from a '64 Cadillac that used
> the same thing.  The yard guaranteed that it would work or I could return it
> for my money back.  They charged me $40 for it.   As I recall, I called some
> auto parts stores, and I could have gotten a rebuilt one for about $90.
>
	Missoula Auto Salvage has a 62 Dynamic thats got one.  This car
has already donated a water pump, a generator and brackets, and some
other little things.  I haven't called to see how many limbs they want
for it, but hopefully they don't want too much, since money is really
tight right now.


> One other thing I've observed with wiper motor problems is the condition of
the > ground.  The wiper motor has to be well grounded to the firewall, or the 
>
circuit won't be complete.  On my '64 there is a copper strap that fits under >
one of the bolts that holds the wiper motor to the firewall, and the other >
end of the strap fits under the head of a screw elsewhere on the wiper motor. >
This strap can get corroded over time and fail to make good contact.  Take out 
>
the appropriate bolts and polish that strap to a nice shine! >

	Mine has a similar ground stap, and it looks like it's in pretty
good shape, so I'm pretty sure thats not the problem.  I'll have to get
all that stuff good and clean while it's out :).
	Thanks for the tips, and wish me luck!!

			Scott
		1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 18:57:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Transmission Question

Just for the record, both 200-4R's and 700-R4's do not have a downshift
cable, they have a TV cable (throttle valve).  This cable replaces both the
downshift cable and vacuum modualtor that is found on 350's and 400's (and
the counterparts).  SInce this cable regulates the line pressure inside the
transmission,  if it is not hooked up you will destroy the tranny within a
few miles.  That why it is important is is properly adjusted.

                                             Tom Millard  OLDSPWR@aol.com

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 19:00:21 -0400
Subject: 69 H/O intman, generator

Hey, Joe Padavano, could you check the ID letter on your 69 H/O, let me know
what it is? Maybe I'd best just go investigate this one for sale here.

Dave/Sherry with the generator troubles- sounds like a large electron got into
your system. Happens with computers all the time. The bigger electrons get
stuck trying to get thru, then the pressure builds up behind them, and since
pressure is like voltage, you get too much voltage, and stuff burns out.
Sometimes you can just filter out the bigger electrons, sometimes you have to
extract all of them and start over.
  In case anyone is really unaware, the above paragraph is purely facetious :)
In truth, I have no clue, not much experience with generators except to change
'em over to Delco built-in regulator alternators... But I guess on an original
vehicle, that'd be points off...
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: edison3@cpeq.com (Mike Frederick)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 19:07:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Re[2]: 1964 Bruce McLaren Olds powered sportscar/Nassau Spee

>
>     So who was it that was wondering what to with the rebuild of their
>     Toro?  Money wasn't a concern if I recall correctly. . .
>
>     Here ya go!  I'm sure it'll "drop right in".  :-)
>
>
>______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
>Subject: Re: 1964 Bruce McLaren Olds powered sportscar/Nassau Speed W
>Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
>Date:    3/11/96 11:18 AM
>
>          As an interesting aside, the latest issue of Hemmings has
>          one of the 1967 McKee Can-Am cars for sale.  This car was
>          powered by an injected aluminum block 455 Olds motor, later
>          turbocharged as well.
>
>          If anyone's interested, the Can-Am car is for sale for only
>          $125,000.
>
>          Joe Padavano
>          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
>
>
>That was me.  No problem.  I'll just sell the house.  I'm sure Jean won't
mind living in the car.  I'll have to convert the trunk into a swimming pool
though...

The 66 Toro and Mike



Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Inc.
Tampa, Florida
813.210.8649

------------------------------

From: BYLN96A@prodigy.com ( GLENN CONNORS)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 19:53:21 -0400
Subject: re: Year One Sale

Yep, I recieved a post card from Year One in todays mail also but the
code on mine to use for the sale is SS3.  Interresting.

Glenn
'69 4-4-2


<< Start of Forwarded message via prodigy (R) mail >>

From:	 Greg Beaulieu
Subject:	 Year One Sale
Date:	 03/11
Time:	 02:46 PM

Date:     	Mon, 11 Mar 1996 15:38:58 -0400
From:     Greg Beaulieu  [ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca]
Sender:   oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca  [oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.
dal.ca]
Reply-To: oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca  [oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca]
Subject:  Year One Sale

I received a postcard from Year One today saying they are having a
sale
this week in which they will give you a discount on everything in
their
catalog if you quote code SS4 to them when placing your order. They
don't
say how much of a discount they're offering. It's a winter-ending
celebration or some such thing.

I only mention it because the sale starts today and ends on the 16th,
and
this is the first time I've received anything from them like this in
time
to actually take advantage of it. Thought the rest of you might want
to also.


Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada


 -------- Original message header follows --------
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2-030.47]
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Mar 1996 14:47:55 -0500
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Date: 	Mon, 11 Mar 1996 15:38:58 -0400
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
To: Oldsmobile <oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Subject: Year One Sale
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From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 20:53:03 -0400
Subject: RE: 69 H/O intman, generator

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Hey Chris did I read correctly. There is a 69 Hurst for sale. I'd be
interested if your not.

- ----------
From: 	Chris Brown Witt[SMTP:wittchri@pilot.msu.edu]
Sent: 	Monday, March 11, 1996 6:00 PM
To: 	oldslist
Subject: 	69 H/O intman, generator

Hey, Joe Padavano, could you check the ID letter on your 69 H/O, let me know
what it is? Maybe I'd best just go investigate this one for sale here.

Dave/Sherry with the generator troubles- sounds like a large electron got into
your system. Happens with computers all the time. The bigger electrons get
stuck trying to get thru, then the pressure builds up behind them, and since
pressure is like voltage, you get too much voltage, and stuff burns out.
Sometimes you can just filter out the bigger electrons, sometimes you have to
extract all of them and start over.
  In case anyone is really unaware, the above paragraph is purely facetious :)
In truth, I have no clue, not much experience with generators except to change
'em over to Delco built-in regulator alternators... But I guess on an original
vehicle, that'd be points off...
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu




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From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 20:54:49 -0400
Subject: RE: engine choice

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- ----------
From: 	BARKER A.[SMTP:ATBARKER@MSMACAB.REMNET.AB.COM]
Sent: 	Monday, March 11, 1996 5:10 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	engine choice



I have a 81 Cutlass Supreme with a v6 and I want to put another engine in it,
I can get a 455 for $250.  I haven't bought the engine yet and I keep getting
different advice.  If I get a 350 instead, will the weight advantage alone
make the car faster than with the 455.

      No

  What would be the better engine to use for
trying to build a fast car?

	455
 This will be my daily driver also, will a 455 give
me that much worse gas mileage than with a 350 with performace parts?

all oppinions are welcome, thank you.
Tony








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From: gludlam@bcinet.net (Gregg Ludlam)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 21:24:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Stupid Suspension Question

Boy, my suspension question really was STUPID!  I miss understood adjusting
the steering wheel overcenter adjustment (ie: the center and play of the
steering box) with centering the steering wheel.  DUH!!!

I did have a reputable shop do the work - an Olds dealer where I used to
live, so that plan is out.  Guess I'll just have to have it redone.  Thanks,
all, for the help!


- -Gregg, the '67 Toro guy

------------------------------

From: gludlam@bcinet.net (Gregg Ludlam)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 21:26:31 -0400
Subject: Re: '55 Generator Burnout

Back when I had all of my electrical problems, I recall one of the old,
crusty mechanics reminding me to "polorize" the generator.  When I reminded
him that I had an alternator, he retracted the suggestion, but did state
that it was important to do had I had a generator.  Since that suggestion
was made already, I go for checking into it!


- -Gregg, the '67 Toro guy

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 21:24:59 -0400
Subject: Big-inch small-blocks, and the 425 Crank

Hello again, Gang.

I posted a couple days ago about the possibility of offset grinding a 330
crank to install in my 403, and figured that with a .010" additional stroke
and a .030" overbore, I'd get 410ci. Then someone mentioned Mondello's kit,
where he cuts down forged 425 cranks to fit in the Olds 350 diesel block and
gets 454ci out of it.

That's nice, but it's also $2800 nice, if you supply the block. That's a
little nicer than I'd like.

The Mondello kit is not all that exotic, since the Diesel 350 has the
big-block's 3" main journals, so only the counterweights on the 425's crank
have to be cut down to fit in the

I was wondering, though if the Chevy trick of cutting down the main journals
on a 400 crank to drop in a 350 block could be applied to the 425 crank in
order to fit the small-block Olds' 2.5" journal, and cutting down the rod
journal from 2.5" to the small block's 2.125" size?

Then you could offset-grind the rod journal on the 425's 3.975" stroke crank
to anywhere from 3.6" to 4.35". Drop that crank into a 403 block with a .030"
overbore (to 4.381"), and you can have from 434ci to 525ci.

Of course, with the stock rods, you'd be putting the piston about an inch out
of the bore, so different rod lengths/piston pin locations etc. would be
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
necessary to make it work; what's the deck height of the small block and big
block Olds, respectively? Mondello uses a Buick rod in his 454ci stroker,
doesn't he?

Is there enough meat on the 425's crank to stand this kind of cut? Since it
is a big-inch motor, you wouldn't have to spin it as hard as a regular c.i.
small block to get good hp.

And just think, your 525ci "307" would look completely stock! There's
something for you later-model H/O and 442 owners to ponder...

------------------------------

From: gludlam@bcinet.net (Gregg Ludlam)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 21:42:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Washer pump

>My problem is a little different,  the pump works great, I am always having
to >refill the washer fluid container...

Take your washer fluid bottle off and check the back of it for small cracks
or wear. I had that problem myself - turned out to be a small crack at the
molding seam wear the bottle butted-up against the wheel well.  Good ole' JB
Weld fixed it up...


- -Gregg, the '67 Toro guy

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 21:42:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Wiper Motor Adventures...was Re: Washer pump

At 06:41 PM 3/11/96 -0400, you wrote:

        <lots of stuff snipped>

>	Thanks for the tips, and wish me luck!!
>
>			Scott
>		1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98


Good luck!  I hope you get it working.

************************************************
Daniel A. Gulino
Associate Professor and Graduate Chairman
Department of Chemical Engineering
Ohio University
Athens, Ohio  45701-2979
(614) 593-1495
(614) 593-0873 (fax)
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://www.ent.ohiou.edu/che/faculty/gulino.html
(or just open the window and shout!)
************************************************

------------------------------

From: <Sherry_Soball@Douglas.BC.CA>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 21:48:47 -0400
Subject: Re: '55 Generators Again

Hi there!  It sounds like there was at least one response to our request
posted over the weekend.  Could those who did respond with suggestions to
our dilemma please respond again?  The reason is that I access our E-mail
via my workplace, and the server was down from the p.m. of Sat.
the 9th through to early a.m. of Mon. the 11th.


To Chris - thanks for the "extremely useful comments" :) -- a chuckle is
useful anytime! -- raises the endorphin levels too!

Polarizing of the generator is not the problem, as they apparently won't
charge if they are not polarized.  Any other suggestions?

- -- Sherry


Mailto: sherry_soball@douglas.bc.ca


- --

------------------------------

From: JMorgan689@aol.com
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 22:25:51 -0400
Subject: 442 spoiler

I am interested in info on where I can get a spoiler (NOS) for a 70 442.
 Also, how is this put on the car?

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 22:44:04 -0400
Subject: Re: 1964 Bruce McLaren Olds powered sportscar/Nassau Speed Weeks

In a message dated 96-03-11 11:36:51 EST, you write:

>I found an article that befiefly mentions an Olds powered sports car
>driven by Bruce McLaren at the 1964 Nassau Speed Weeks.  This was
[snip]
>I wonder if this was a 330 block engine or a 394.  my guess is it was
>a 394,  there was a lot of dragracing hi-po parts for the 394 (hilborn
>fule injection, cams, etc), and the 330 was new and unproven.  Of course,
>it could have been a 215, but I doubt that.
>
>Anyone have an info on this??

Don't have any info on that particular race, but don't discount the idea that
it may have been a 215. Repco down in Australia developed that motor into a
Formula One motor(!) in the late 60's/early 70's, and this may have been an
early attempt to utilize the small and lightweight package of the 215 Olds
(which, remember, would have been installed in the F-85 of the previous year,
so it would not yet be out of date).

I can't really imagine a sports car with a 394 (not exactly a lightweight);
but then again, the early Hemi was used in sports cars, and it was a real
heavyweight.

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 23:11:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Big-inch small-blocks, and the 425 Crank

In a message dated 96-03-11 21:07:49 EST, you write:

>The Mondello kit is not all that exotic, since the Diesel 350 has the
>big-block's 3" main journals, so only the counterweights on the 425's crank
>have to be cut down to fit in the

???

I guess I had more to say here, but forgot to add it. The counterweights on
the 425's crank hit things inside the crankcase of the small-block, so the
proper word to finish this sentence is "crankcase". Anyway, with that size
stroke, you have to worry about the rods hitting the cam, the rails, etc. In
order to get proper piston height in the bore, as well as for clearance and
strength, Mondello's kit uses a Buick rod, which is forged like the Olds'.

The idea of putting a cut-down 425 crank in a 403 block is meant to take
advantage of the 403's huge bore (bigger than any postwar V-8 except the Ford
429/460). Since you can do a *lot* of machine work to a 425 crank for $2800,
it might be more viable than Mondello's route to a big-inch small-block. Of
course, a serious 403 is going to require fully custom pistons anyway, so you
may as well stroke the motor while you're at it.

The only drawback is the reduced strength of the main journals cut down to
2.5" from 3". A full 1/2" whack off of a crank is pretty severe, but the
Chevy folks cut down the cast 400ci cranks from 2.65 to 2.45 to make a 350
into a 383 all the time, in some pretty severe-duty applications, without any
reputation for crank failure. In a low-rpm street environment, proper oiling,
etc. the forged Olds unit might survive pretty well.

The forged crank from an Olds 400 or 425, with a 2.5" bearing, should be able
to take such a cut. Heck, for the $2800 Mondello wants just for his stroker
kit, I could get a couple cranks machined, rig up a jig out of an old
small-block Olds block powered by a spare engine, attach some weights, and
see how fast I can spin a cut-down 425 crank before it blows up.

Anybody got an old 3.975" BB crank laying around that they could eyeball to
see if such a cut is even possible?

------------------------------

From: "Alex Holland" <hollanda@cia.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 23:41:19 -0400
Subject: Re: engine choice

> Date:          Mon, 11 Mar 1996 18:10:16 -0400
> From:          "BARKER A." <ATBARKER@MSMACAB.REMNET.AB.COM>
> Subject:       engine choice
> To:            oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
> Reply-to:      oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca

>
>
> I have a 81 Cutlass Supreme with a v6 and I want to put another engine in
it, I > can get a 455 for $250.  I haven't bought the engine yet and I keep
getting > different advice.  If I get a 350 instead, will the weight advantage
alone make > the car faster than with the 455.  What would be the better
engine to use for > trying to build a fast car?  This will be my daily driver
also, will a 455 give > me that much worse gas mileage than with a 350 with
performace parts? > > all oppinions are welcome, thank you. > Tony > > For
what it's worth, I'd go with the 350.  A moderately built 350 can go fast asd
still get reasonable gas mileage.  A 455 is a great motor, but no matter what
you do you will never get gas mileage.  A second factor is weight.  both
engines will require changes in your suspension springs, but the 455 needs
even stiffer springs.  The 350 will outhandle the 455, even if the 455 is
faster.  As a note early magazine tests show the stock 455 only 0.8 seconds
faster in the 1/4 mile over the stock 350.  Is that really worth the diff. in
handling and gas mileage.  signed alex , guy with a 350 and 455 cutlass > > >
 >

------------------------------

From: "Peg O'Connor" <peg@grove.ufl.EDU>
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 02:16:55 -0400
Subject: Re: engine choice

> I have a 81 Cutlass Supreme with a v6 and I want to put another engine in
it, I > can get a 455 for $250.  I haven't bought the engine yet and I keep
getting > different advice.  If I get a 350 instead, will the weight advantage
alone make > the car faster than with the 455.  What would be the better
engine to use for > trying to build a fast car?  This will be my daily driver
also, will a 455 give > me that much worse gas mileage than with a 350 with
performace parts?

I am currently putting a 350 in my '78 Calais; I decided on that instead
of the 350 because I was told that the performance increase wouldn't
actually be that much, as well as the 350 being a bit more versatile.  I
am planning on a daily driver/decent et car, as you are, so your
situation sounds similar to mine.

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 04:25:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Washer pump

>>     Thanks, but I don't think that's it.  I'm losing washer fluid too, I
>>     think from the pump.  That seems to tell me it is pumping, or trying
>>     too.  The stuff that gurgles out is kind of foamy too, so I suspect
>>     either the bad seals or an air leak of some type.
>

>Anyway, on the theory that this will pop up in public sooner or later,
>let me just say that I think the original poster is complaining about
>a new-design electric-motor washer pump, but all the followups are
>diagnosing the old-design reciprocating pump instead. Do I have that
>right?

     Don't know that I recall the original post right offhand, but lots of
stuff on the list is just rambling on about each other's experiences, which
is really cool.  A topic can start about the 96 LSS and end up with
someone's 66 GTO or something.  It's kinda neat how things just flow around
on here.  Many of us probably didn't pick up on that electronic pump bit,
rather on the simple pump problems that we'd had ourselves.  While we'd hope
to be able to help the original poster, no one can guarantee that, but it
may be helpful to others who may have shared the same problems, etc, (You
know, the things you'd always wanted to know, but never asked...)  and these
postings seem to be the obvious place for it.  Personally, I like the idea
of having thoughts from every side of a topic.  It is interesting to see the
various viewpoints represented, between 50's technology and 90's technology,
and opinions, etc.  I think it's really cool.  I doubt that I've really
answered any problems with this posting, but that's the glory of this list
- -- that between all of everyone's ramblings (especially mine:ramblings!) an
answer might be found.

     Umm, ah, "so there!"  I guess.  (Looked like I needed something else!)
:)
      Charley Buehner         "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Havre, Montana          http://www.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"              '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"              '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 04:49:00 -0400
Subject: Re: engine choice

>I have a 81 Cutlass Supreme with a v6 and I want to put another engine in it,
I >can get a 455 for $250.

     Yes, this is called fun!!!

 I haven't bought the engine yet and I keep getting
>different advice.  If I get a 350 instead, will the weight advantage alone
make >the car faster than with the 455.

     The 455 is a torqy engine, I've had a lot of fun with mine!...  The
small block can do wonders as well, but it all depends on how you want to
build it, I guess.  The small block has the RPM potential, while the
bigblock doesn't need it.
  What would be the better engine to use for
>trying to build a fast car?

     As I've always said, there's no replacement for displacement!

 This will be my daily driver also, will a 455 give
>me that much worse gas mileage than with a 350 with performace parts?

     Umm, Oh sure, you just HAD to go throw THAT in there!!!!  Actually, if
tuned properly and politely, you should do fairly well on the highway
(especially if you keep highway gears in it!)  Maybe around 18 or so.  Mine
doesn't have that problem.  I've got a Holley firestarter on there, and the
last time I checked I was getting about TWO!  (Thats gallons per mile, NOT
miles per gallon!!!!)  TOP THAT!  I've got an AFB that I'll put back on
there as soon as I get my cam and intake on.  (And when I get the time to do
anything with it!)
     Since I've put the 455 in with the 3.23's and 295-50R15's, I've guessed
about 12mpg on it's best days.  Keep in mind I'm not at all nice to the gas
pedal or guage!  When I had the 260/2.29/195-75R14's in it, I saw 25 once.
I drove REALLY nice.  It was hard!  I usually got 19-22 on the highway.  I
put the 350 in it, built for high RPM's, and kept between 18 and 20 on the
highway.  The 403 (78, offy intake, else stock) saw right around 18.  It had
235/60-15's then.  I never checked after I put 2.73's in it.  I haven't
taken any trips since the 455/3.23's either.
     Anyway, the only advice I have that doesn't depend on anything else is
"Keep Olds!"  Can't go wrong there!
      Charley Buehner         "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Havre, Montana          http://www.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"              '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"              '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 05:08:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Stupid Suspension Question

>Boy, my suspension question really was STUPID!  I miss understood adjusting
>the steering wheel overcenter adjustment (ie: the center and play of the
>steering box) with centering the steering wheel.  DUH!!!

     Nonsense!  There's no such thing as a stupid question (well, except
Kathy Ireland asking if you'd go out with her for the weekend, or something!
- -- I'd have to contemplate THAT for about half a second, just long enough to
verify the question was really asked!!!!!)  The only stupid questions are
the ones that aren't asked.  Granted, you might get stupid answers (like
this) but that's half the fun!!!
      Charley Buehner         "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Havre, Montana          http://www.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"              '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"              '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 05:08:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Big-inch small-blocks, and the 425 Crank

>And just think, your 525ci "307" would look completely stock! There's
>something for you later-model H/O and 442 owners to ponder...

     THAT's something I've always though would be just killer cool!  (except
mine would be the 260.  You'd see the 4 bbl. and tubular exhaust, but hey,
everyone runs headers, right?  Who'd be able to argue with the shroud
sticker that says 4.3 V8 on it?  Of course, that sputterring rumble of the
"potato" cam might give it away, but... :)
      Charley Buehner         "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Havre, Montana          http://www.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"              '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"              '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: johnspr@ix.netcom.com (JOHN PRESTON )
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 08:40:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Re[3]: break-in

You wrote:
>
>The piston to wall clearence varies from 3 to 5 (1000's) among the
cylinders.  I
>plan to run forged pistons, with normal aspiration.
>
>Any problems seen here?  Maybe make the piston to wall clearance
consistant
>among all cylinders?
>

I assume you will be using the TRW forged pistons.  From what I can
remember about doing my own 455, these forged units weigh more than the
stock cast pistons and create an unbalanced condition.  The need to
balance your rotating assembly is **less** if you're not going to rev
the engine over about 5000 rpm, but will certainly shorten its eventual
life.  I didn't balance my own engine and sometimes wonder just how
much effect it will eventually have.

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 08:41:01 -0400
Subject: Re: 69 H/O Identification

Hey, Joe Padavano, could you check the ID letter on your 69 H/O, let me know
what it is? Maybe I'd best just go investigate this one for sale here.

          ID letter?  I'm not sure what you mean.  If you're referring
          to the VIN, keep in mind that Olds changed their VIN format
          in 1972; previous years did not have an engine designator in
          the VIN (other than indicating L6 or V8).  My car's VIN,
          just like those of all other 69 H/Os is that of a 442
          (mine's a Holiday Coupe).  Look for the dash plaque,
          although not all cars had them and others may have been
          removed by the original owner (mine's number 180, original
          owner's name was Jerry Felson).  Also look for "D" heads,
          unique cast iron intake with PCV valve fitting towards the
          front, chrome valve covers, and unique sheet metal Ram Air
          adapter on the air cleaner (trivia note - it's a Ford Cobra
          Jet flapper assembly!).  Wheels are 15x7 SSII with chrome
          rims and argent (gray) or gold centers.  Also look for Hurst
          tire pressure sticker on driver's side door jamb.

          Good Luck.

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30


------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 08:44:44 -0400
Subject: Re[4]: 1964 Bruce McLaren Olds powered sportscar/Nassau

>
>     So who was it that was wondering what to with the rebuild of their
>     Toro?  Money wasn't a concern if I recall correctly. . .
>
>
>That was me.  No problem.  I'll just sell the house.  I'm sure Jean won't
mind living in the car.  I'll have to convert the trunk into a swimming pool
though...

The 66 Toro and Mike
          Reminds me of the old story about the guy who came into some
          money.  He wants to buy a Ferrari, his wife wants to remodel
          the kitchen.  His justification for buying the car is you
          can always cook in your Ferrari, but you can't drive your
          kitchen!

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: johnspr@ix.netcom.com (JOHN PRESTON )
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 08:59:26 -0400
Subject: Re: engine choice

You wrote:
>
>
>
>I have a 81 Cutlass Supreme with a v6 and I want to put another engine
in it, I
>can get a 455 for $250.  I haven't bought the engine yet and I keep
getting
>different advice.  If I get a 350 instead, will the weight advantage
alone make
>the car faster than with the 455.  What would be the better engine to
use for
>trying to build a fast car?  This will be my daily driver also, will a
455 give
>me that much worse gas mileage than with a 350 with performace parts?
>
>all oppinions are welcome, thank you.
>Tony
>
455 ADVANTAGES:  More bhp, more torque, no **significant** weight
penalty [all pretty obvious]

350/403 ADVANTAGES:  Lower deck height which does away with (1) the
interference problem with the heater box on non-A/C cars, and (2) the
need for headers which are routed outside the frame and which decrease
steering wheel rotation.  I sort of worked around problem (2) in my own
455 installation by using headers intended for diesel (low block)
applications and which run inside the frame rails.  They are Hooker
Competitions with nice big 1 7/8 primaries, however I had to slightly
re-route 3 of the primary pipes for frame and steering box clearance
due to the higher 455 deck height --- a real pain and challenge for my
marginal MIG skills.

------------------------------

From: Rod Rickenbach <rod@hopi.dtcc.edu>
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 09:59:20 -0400
Subject: 454 Small block

> > Why not get a diesel 350, and do it with a 425 crank...   It comes out
> > to something like 454 cubic inches or something like that.   Modello
> > does a kit for it, you supply the block.    Thing is bullet proof too.
> > Mark
>
> But, with the block full of Hard-Blok, getting adequate cooling is a tad
> difficult. the 440, I think, is the largest bore he recommends for
water-cooled > use.

I don't get it.  If you're going to be putting a 425 crank in a small
block, then bore it out to 425 CID or larger, why not just build up a 425?


- -Rod
-
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
    Rod Rickenbach                                       Delaware Tech
     rod@dtcc.edu                                 Computer Services Department
http://www.dtcc.edu/~rod                            Stanton/Wilmington Campus

------------------------------

From: J.Easton@zds.com (Jeff Easton)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 09:54:25 -0400
Subject: Re: 442 spoiler

- --IMA.Boundary.410627628
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I am interested in info on where I can get a spoiler (NOS) for a 70 442.
 Also, how is this put on the car?

     Good luck in finding a NOS one.  I don't recall ever seeing a NOS
     wing for sale.

     The best I've come across is a used one a guy was selling out of the
     back of his pickup at the Jefferson (Wis.) swap meet.  Later saw the
     same guy advertising it in JWO for a couple hundred bucks.  It had the
     usual chips and scratches of a part that had been laying around for a
     while...

     The spoiler attaches to the decklid with three bolts per pedestal.
     You need to drill the holes in your decklid if this is not a
     replacement.  There are factory drawings that show where the holes
     need to be drilled.  You can buy a reprint of the Fisher Body manual
     or buy the "442 Restoration Guide" book that has a copy of the drawing
     in the back.

     Year One sells a replica spoiler that they claim was made from molds
     taken from original parts.  The location of the three bolts in their
     spoiler is slightly offset from the original Olds part, and they don't
     supply a drill diagram.  Don't ask how I know this...  :-)

     -Jeff Easton    j.easton@zds.com
     1970 442  4-Speed
- --IMA.Boundary.410627628
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------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 10:53:28 -0400
Subject: More 69 H/O Info



          A couple of things I forgot to mention when looking at that
          69 H/O:

          The engine should be painted red (not bronze)

          The fenderwells are black plastic, not red (the 68 H/O used
          the red fenderwells since it used the under-the-bumper
          scoops; the 69 has a hood scoop and thus does not use the
          W-30 fenderwells)

          Rear end should be a 3.91:1 posi for non-A/C cars and (I
          think) a 3:23:1 posi for A/C

          Look for gold and white stripes on the headrests, but these
          may be very faint due to wear

          The correct teardrop outside mirrors are unique to the 69
          H/O and are very hard to come by (trust me on this one)

          There should be a sticker inside the trunklid listing the
          Hurst-added equipment, but again, this could be long gone

          I think the code on the TH400 should be "AO", but I'll have
          to check this


          A funny story that's marginally related:

          I saw an ad for a "69 442" with a "Hurst front end".
          Needing parts for my H/O, I went to check it out.  Turns out
          the car is a 68 442 in about negative 1 condition.  The guy
          already has the engine and trans out of the car with the
          intent of putting them in his 55 Ford F-100.  I'm ready to
          turn around and leave when I happen to lift the hood on the
          hulk.  Noticing the red fenderwells and hoses leading to the
          under-the-bumper scoops, I spend about the next hour
          convincing the guy to sell me the complete car with the
          engine and trans.  I got the whole thing for $800.

          The car had 23,000 original miles (applied a quarter mile at
          a time), all W-30 parts except the air cleaner, UHF
          ignition, P/W, P/Seats, tilt, and dealer-installed 4:33 rear
          end.  The car even has the original radiator hoses,
          including the wire hose clamps and the little staples used
          to hold the hose clamps in place on the hoses on the
          assembly line.  The car's still not restored, but it is
          complete.  Just goes to show you, you never know what you'll
          find!

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 11:12:54 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Year One Sale

Got one yesterday with code SS2, good from 3/4 to 3/9.  Oh, well.

Maybe SS5 is good for next week?

David Brown
dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu    (312) 702-9157
"Oldsmobile - powerful roadsters with big V8s"
- -------------------------

Yep, I recieved a post card from Year One in todays mail also but the
code on mine to use for the sale is SS3.  Interresting.

Glenn
'69 4-4-2

From:  Greg Beaulieu
Subject:  Year One Sale
Date:  03/11
Time:  02:46 PM
Subject:  Year One Sale

I received a postcard from Year One today saying they are having a sale
this week in which they will give you a discount on everything in their
catalog if you quote code SS4 to them when placing your order. They


Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 04:22:22 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Washer pump

     Just though I'd add that I took my bottle out last week to see if that
     was where my fluid was going (I'm not the original poster either btw),
     it wasn't.  The bottle didn't leak.

     But, while I had it out I decided to clean it up a bit.  I threw it in
     the dishwasher and now it looks brand spanking new!

     Tom L.

______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: Re: Washer pump Author:
oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET Date:    3/11/96 6:22 PM


>My problem is a little different,  the pump works great, I am always having
to >refill the washer fluid container...

Take your washer fluid bottle off and check the back of it for small cracks
or wear. I had that problem myself - turned out to be a small crack at the
molding seam wear the bottle butted-up against the wheel well.  Good ole' JB
Weld fixed it up...


- -Gregg, the '67 Toro guy



------------------------------

From: johnspr@ix.netcom.com (JOHN PRESTON )
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 13:48:07 -0400
Subject: Re: 454 Small block

You wrote:
>
>
>> > Why not get a diesel 350, and do it with a 425 crank...   It comes
out
>> > to something like 454 cubic inches or something like that.
Modello
>> > does a kit for it, you supply the block.    Thing is bullet proof
too.
>> > Mark
>>
>> But, with the block full of Hard-Blok, getting adequate cooling is a
tad
>> difficult. the 440, I think, is the largest bore he recommends for
water-cooled
>> use.
>
>I don't get it.  If you're going to be putting a 425 crank in a small
>block, then bore it out to 425 CID or larger, why not just build up a
425?
>

The 350 diesel block is certainly the strongest of Olds blocks, and
would be a logical choice in a full race application with Batten heads,
etc.  HOWEVER ------ for a street application the 350 diesel block is
almost certainly heavier than a 455 block, and of course the cost of
having Mondello create a "big" small block is pretty prohibitive for
most folks.

------------------------------

From: eda@dl.tc.faa.gov
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 14:13:07 -0400
Subject: Re: '86 Salon ---> 442 (was Re: Transmission Question)

bdbrumm@ix.netcom.com (Bruce D. Brumm ) writes:

> For fun and looks I may finish the job and paint the 442 scheme (on).
> Does anyone know what the correct color schemes are and where I might
> find a vin-9 (442, Calais, H/O) motor to put in the car?

Well, owing to the fact that not a lot of these were produced, and not a lot
of the cars they came in were produced, you might not have an easy time
finding one.  If you do, it'll already be in a 442 or H/O, and if nothing's
wrong with it, why bother with the swap.  Though there are people who have
swapped the 307's out for larger engines, but even some of these people may be
hanging on to the original.

You could get a list of parts numbers (cam, etc...wait a minute....
ta da...from an earlier post by Tom Lentz....

>      Long Duration cam shaft            22519934
>      High Rate Valve springs            22510372
>      Harmonic Balancer                  417142
>      Rochester 4MV carb                 17083553
>      Dual Snorkel Air Cleaner Assy.     25042690
>      Intermediate Exhaust Pipe          22516113
>      Muffler and Tailpipe Right         22526204
>      Muffler and Tailpipe Left          22526205

But a lot of the power you get comes from having a 3.73 rear, also a shigt kit
is in order, and you might as well go with a less restrictive exhaust, and
even then...

Bottom line is, if you're going to do a swap, you might want to consider going
right to a 350 or larger.  Much as it pains me to say it, even a HO (vin-9)
307 just isn't....well, just isn't a 350. :-\  Which is not to say it ain't
fun, and not to discourage you, in fact if more people messed around with the
307's maybe we'd hit on some killer "recipes for power", kinda like the staged
buildups you can find for the Turbo-T's and stuff.

BTW, couple cars for sale in my area, an 83 H/O, $3000, a 79 H/O, w/ a 455,
dual quads, etc, $2750, I think, and in the huh? category, a 72 or thereabouts
Cutlass Supreme convertible, $9800!!!  There was also one, what was it,
xomething like a '56 Dynamic 88 or something, restored, $23,500 (no typo on my
part :)  Outta my league, I was thinking about the 83, but that wouldn't lend
much to "getting another car to keep the miles low on the H/O", now would it?
;-)

Ed Atlee			'77 Cutlass Supreme
eda@dl.tc.faa.gov		'84 Hurst/Olds
	R O C K E T	P O W E R E D ! !


Still looking for info/opinions on '80s 307-powered Toronados! Anyone?

------------------------------

From: John Schmich <schmich@AZStarNet.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 15:00:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Transmission Question

At 01:58 PM 3/10/96 -0400, you wrote:
  I currently own two Cutlasses:  an '84 Cutlass Supreme
>with a vin-Y 307 and 170,000 miles, and an '86 Cutlass Salon with a
>vin-Y 307 and 104,000 miles.
>Also:  I have owned this car for about a month.  It has t-tops, guage
>package, bucket seats, console shifter, etc.  The previous owner had
>apparently started to convert this car to a 442 look-alike.  It is
>black.
>For fun and looks I may finish the job and paint the 442 scheme (on).
>Does anyone know what the correct color schemes are and where I might
>find a vin-9 (442, Calais, H/O) motor to put in the car?
>
>Anyone interested in late-model ('81-'88) H/O's, 442's, etc. please
>drop me a note.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Bruce D. Brumm
>Network & Systems Administrator
>LDM Technologies, Inc.
>Troy, MI 48084
>
>e-mail:  bdbrumm@ix.netcom.com
>  home:  Auburn Hills, MI
>
Bruce,
Hello fellow '86 Salon owner.  Your Salon sounds just like mine, V8, 115k,
except t-tops.  My brother's Salon has t-tops; and you can check them out on
Bryceman's page.  Anyway, this regarding your question on finding an H.O.
engine.  If you were going to do a straight swap of engines that would be
fine.  But if you were to get the H.O. motor rebuilt and put all the fancy
performance products in it, you might as well keep the block you got and
build up that one.  If I'm correct here, it is just the components inside
the engine that makes it an H.O.  Like what I'm doing, I'm making my own '84
307 H.O. motor with non-original(factory) parts.  If you just want
performance just look into aftermarket products.  (If you can find them!!!)
Like what Ed Atlee said, if the producers just relized that many of the
millions of people that have late model Oldsmobiles want performance from
their (wimpy) 307".  But it is very hard to find parts and recieve advice
about this certain engine.  If you want a complete listing of the components
involved in my 307" overhaul just E-Mail me back or look on Bryce's page.

Brandon
'86 Cutlass Salon

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 07:07:01 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: '86 Salon ---> 442 (was Re: Transmission Question)

     Those numbers I posted were for the VIN-Y engine, a-la '84.  May not
     work on the VIN-9 engine, I'm not exactly sure on the differences and
     don't have a manual with me to check.

     Barring emissions concerns with the 350, then I'd go for that.
     They're easier to find, and probably cheaper to build up too.  You'll
     probably need a tranny too.

     So why don't *we* start a "recipie for power" for the late-model
     307's?  Or at least a recipie for "more power than stock" since we
     ain't gonna compete with 455's and built 350's.  We can use some of
     the tips from the Grand National and Monte Carlo SS recipies, such as
     for traction control, 2nd gear torque converter lockup switch, etc.

     I think what we really need here are some people who race their 307's
     regularly so that we can get some hard numbers from various
     modifications.  A dyno might be too much to ask for, unless someone
     has a G-Tech meter that they trust.

     I'd be happy to start keeping track of the data, bookeeping if you
     will, until we get enough data to develop something.  I don't drag my
     car, but I do keep good track of gas mileage, driveability (subjective
     of course), and daily-driver "manners".  My feelings on the matter of
     a "recipie" is that items therein should be organized on a "bang for
     the buck" basis.  i.e. the cheapest and/or easiest mods that give the
     best power should be first.  Perhaps mentioning things like you should
     do mod A before you do mod B to take full advantage of B, even though
     A doesn't do much by itself.

     Anybody know of a source for headers for the 307?  Preferably
     emissions-legal?

     Tom L.


______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: Re: '86 Salon ---> 442 (was Re:
Transmission Question) Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET Date:
3/12/96 10:36 AM

You could get a list of parts numbers (cam, etc...wait a minute....
ta da...from an earlier post by Tom Lentz....

>      Long Duration cam shaft            22519934
>      High Rate Valve springs            22510372
>      Harmonic Balancer                  417142
>      Rochester 4MV carb                 17083553
>      Dual Snorkel Air Cleaner Assy.     25042690
>      Intermediate Exhaust Pipe          22516113
>      Muffler and Tailpipe Right         22526204
>      Muffler and Tailpipe Left          22526205

Bottom line is, if you're going to do a swap, you might want to consider going
 ri ght to a 350 or larger.  Much as it pains me to say it, even a HO (vin-9)
307 jus t isn't....well, just isn't a 350. :-\  Which is not to say it ain't
fun, and not
 to discourage you, in fact if more people messed around with the 307's maybe
 we'
d hit on some killer "recipes for power", kinda like the staged buildups you
can find for the Turbo-T's and stuff.

Ed Atlee   '77 Cutlass Supreme
eda@dl.tc.faa.gov  '84 Hurst/Olds
 R O C K E T P O W E R E D ! !

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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #116
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