
oldsmobile-digest          Tuesday, 9 April 1996       Volume 01 : Number 143


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 22:21:24 -0300
Subject: Re: G-body tach update 

At 11.35 04,08,96 -0300, you wrote:
>
>     When I first got my '84 H/O last year, I posted here about a problem 
>     with the tachometer.  It would read about 1000rpm to high 
>     occasionally.  Several people wrote back to say that they had the 
>     exact same problem too.
>     
>     Well, I may have a solution for you, mine appears to be solved.  I 
>     replaced the spark plug wires and coil over a month ago and the 
>     problem went away and hasn't come back.  Granted the problem was 

it was probably the coil...

>     intermittent anyways, so this may be a fluke.  I used the Accell HEI 
>     Supercoil and Accell wires as replacements.
>     
>     I'm betting it was probably the plug wires at fault.  The Accell wires 
>     work great, and look good too, but they're not sized very well.  If 

i thought my set was a fluke, just because it was a special order

>     you have the tools, I recommend getting their universal kit and 
>     cutting to fit rather than buying the precut custom ones.
>     
>     Tom L.

      ___
     /. .\
    _\_*_/_                     -<Buddha>-
   / /   \ \                   Buddha@itw.com
   \_\___/_/            HTTP://www2.itw.com/~buddha/
  /___\_/___\ "That which does not kill us makes us stronger"
 *************

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 22:24:20 -0300
Subject: Re: wheels 

At 21.33 04,08,96 -0300, you wrote:
>At 12:35 PM 4/8/96 -0300, you wrote:
>>
>>     Yup, 235/60R15 tires would work.  That's what I have on my '84 H/O and 
>>     it's about the widest tire you can fit comfortably on a 15x7" rim.  
>>     It'd be 20mm wider than the 215/65 tire (that width may or may not be 
>>     all tread, it depends upon the tire because the sidewall counts too in 
>>     that measurement).  If you're sure they fit under the well, go for it! 
>>      It's probably not there anymore, but the original tire size should be 
>>     on a sticker inside the driver-side doorjam.
>>     
>>     If you get the smaller diameter tire, remember what will happen to 
>>     your RPM's.  Depending upon what rear end ratio you have, you may or 
>>     may not want to do this.  A smaller diameter tire will have a smaller 
>>     contact patch too.
>>     
>>     Yes, there are different drive gears for the tranny.  There was a 
>>     discussion on here a while back for that, and someone mentioned they 
>>     were working on a computer program or spreadsheet or something like 
>>     that to help figure out which one you need.  Anyone remember??
>>     
>>     Tom L.
>>
>Thanks for the help, Tom...I found that sticker (it's still there!).  Tire
>sizes listed on it are:
>
>    7.75 x 14  (standard)
>    F 70 x 14  (optional)
>    F 78 x 14  (optional)
>
>I don't know how to translate those sizes to today's nomenclature for tire
>sizes, though.
>
>Thanks
>--
>Dave Paulison
>69 Cutlass Supreme
>
>
>

my dad used to sell tires...i'll ask him and get back to ya
               Zack
      ___
     /. .\
    _\_*_/_                     -<Buddha>-
   / /   \ \                   Buddha@itw.com
   \_\___/_/            HTTP://www2.itw.com/~buddha/
  /___\_/___\ "That which does not kill us makes us stronger"
 *************

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 22:32:55 -0300
Subject: RE: A Flamed Toro!!!  

At 22.04 04,08,96 -0300, you wrote:
>>One of the muscle car magazines has coined the term "restification".  It
>>means restoring the car as it was likely to have been back then using
>>headers, slapper bars, aftermarket intakes, carbs, etc.  That's the way they
>>really were and the way they should be remembered.
>>
>>Bob Handren
>'>67 442 W-30 modified
>'>70 Cutlass SX Convertible
>
>Amen!!!
>
>
>Attachment Converted: C:\ITW\NETSHIT\REAFlame
>

what file did you send...i didnt get an extention...did it have one or is ti
from a M*AC?
               zack
      ___
     /. .\
    _\_*_/_                     -<Buddha>-
   / /   \ \                   Buddha@itw.com
   \_\___/_/            HTTP://www2.itw.com/~buddha/
  /___\_/___\ "That which does not kill us makes us stronger"
 *************

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 13:05:38 -0300
Subject: Re: Toro Gear Oil?

Hey, guys:

I'm not trying to complicate the issue but my Toro manual says to use 
GM P/N 1050015 (whatever that equates to) and goes on to say:

    NOTE: Standard differential lubricants should NOT 
          be used in the final drive unit as they do 
          not meet the specifications required.
 
Of course, it was written 30 years ago but I thought I'd pass it 
along.

The 66 Toro and Mike (a known Toro-virus carrier)


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 13:30:40 -0300
Subject: Re: El Toro!  (was Re: 1966 & 1967 Toronados [and] Thanks for the Welcome)

Dave Voorhis wrote:
> 
> It seems I have returned at exactly the right time!  I have two '67 
> Toros (one a parts car) and a '66 Toro.  I was on the list up until 
> about a month ago, at which time some wierd Internet networking 
> problem cut me off the list.
> 
> Now it's fixed, and I'm back.  Nice to see that this list has come to
> its senses by becoming infected with Toro fever.  *grin*
> 

Heh-heh-heh...


The 66 Toro and Mike

... You know, it's costing me a fortune to 
    set up all these dummy internet accounts     :)

- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 22:45:32 -0300
Subject: RE: A Flamed Toro!!! 

At 10:04 PM 4/8/96 -0300, you wrote:
>>One of the muscle car magazines has coined the term "restification".  It
>>means restoring the car as it was likely to have been back then using
>>headers, slapper bars, aftermarket intakes, carbs, etc.  That's the way they
>>really were and the way they should be remembered.
>>
>>Bob Handren
>'>67 442 W-30 modified
>'>70 Cutlass SX Convertible
>
>Amen!!!
>
>
>Attachment Converted: C:\METROLNK\EUDORA\REAFlame
>
What was attached???  Is it uuencoded? REAFlame.???
- --
Dave Paulison
69 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 23:51:57 -0300
Subject: Re: 1970 W32 

In a message dated 96-04-08 19:36:56 EDT, you write:

>>I don't think the W32 was made after 1969, was it? My literature from 1970
>>talks about the W-30 455, W-31 350, no W-32, W-33 performance Delta 88,
>>and W-34 performance Toro. 
>>
>>Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada
>>
>I think you are correct, Greg.  I can't find any production figures for 1970
>W-32's, but there were some made in 1969.  

In 1970, the W-32 referred to the 365hp engine in the Cutlass Supreme SX,
which is different from the previous years, when it was an option on the 442.
I am not quite sure how it worked out, order-wise, since a contemporary
article refers to the "early" version of the SX having the 320hp 2-bbl 455
(which my '70 SX came with), which was later "updated" to the 365hp 4-bbl
455.

So, I don't know if the 320hp motor was standard throughout the run of the
SX, with the W-32 as an option, or if the 320hp motor was only installed in
early cars, and *replaced* entirely with the 365hp W-32 motor.

Apparently, there were no W-32 emblems or such to identify the 365hp motor
(which was identical to the stock 442 'plant, but only called W-32 when
installed in the Cutlass Supreme notchback body style).

All the articles I have seen written on the C.S. SX have been too brief and
general to be of much use. Anyone know of a good article or chapter that
gives the definitive information on the SX option?

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 00:02:12 -0300
Subject: Dan with 86 442 

Sorry about posting this 'globally', but due to the wonders of AOL, Dans
address got lost!  So how about sending me your question again Dan

>Dan, glad I could help you out.  When I go to work tomorrow I will answer
the
rest of your questions and send it out when I get home.  I'm a little short
on time know...
Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 00:06:24 -0300
Subject: Re: 403 c.i. Engine 

In a message dated 96-04-08 00:45:18 EDT, you write:

>i'll agree with everything up until your last part...chevy had a 400, which
>was based, like all 400's, on the small block.  as for big blocks...396 all
>the way up to 454.

Yes, you're right.  I guess that I should have clarified this a little
better.  I was referring strictly to the '77 to '79 period; the largest
engine available in a passenger car was the 350.  '76 was the last year for
both the 400 and 454 in passenger car production, according to showroom sales
literature.  Sorry for the confusion.  Hey, why are we talking about Chevy's,
anyway?

Paul

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 00:21:40 -0300
Subject: Irradic G-Body Tach INFO 

Ok, I have been reading about problems with the Olds 78-87 G-Body tach and
have some interesting info to help you guys out.  First of all, all of the
info I read so far was correct.  The irradic readings could be generated by
the wires, coil, etc.  But this only occurs if the wire going to the
distributor tach terminal comes in or near contact with a part of the
ignition.

So here is my solution which has worked on 4 separate tachs: 2 79's, 1 86,
and 1 84.  On the back of the tach, there is a small pin/clip that is used to
set the tach for either 6 cylinders or 8.  The clip makes a connection
between a common center point and either a top or bottom point (depending on
6 or 8)  It seems that after so many years this connection becomes loose and
gives the tach a false reading on not being set for either 6 or 8 cylinders.
So to fix this, remove the pin and use a small piece of sandpaper to clean
any corrosion on the 'points'.  Once you remove the pin, you will see a small
metal clip that has a slight bend in it to keep pressure on the two points
(and electrically connect them).  Bend this slightly more to increase the
pressure and this will solve your problem.  I tried soldering the two points,
but fried the IC chip in one tach because I used to much heat.  (it is VERY
close to the point connections!).   

Some background:  2 years ago I bought an 86 442 with 15k on it.  When it
took it for a test ride I noticed the tach went up to 5000 rpm's when it
should have been around 3500 or so.  Since I had experienced this problem
before, I asked the owner if he was aware of the problem.  He proceeded to
tell me that he removed the tach 3 times and sent it back to GM to be
repaired.  On the third time, GM sent the tach back with a letter stating
that the guy who fixed them had passed away and they could no longer help
him. So the day I brought the car home, I tore out the gauge cluster and and
fixed it like I said above.  To this day the tach has never given me an
irradic reading.  

I hope this helps you out.  Sometimes things aren't to easy to explain on
paper so drop me a line if you have any further questions. Tom Millard
OLDSPWR@aol.com  

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 00:45:39 -0300
Subject: Toronado  1966-1996 

Hey fellow 1966 Toronado owners,

Do you know what year it is?

Thats right, the 30th anniversary of the last automotive engineering,
technical, and design marvel of the 21st century! Not since the 1934 Cord has
an automobile been produced in the USA that has set such futuristic
benchmarks. Just ask me, I'll tell ya!  he he!

Now, collectively, what shall we do about it! I have made the first step
tonight, unfortunately, I can't say what it is yet...... but I will soon.
Only Mike Frederick knows of my activities, and he is sworn to secrecy. 

Lets have some ideas on the topic. It would be too bad if we had to wait
untill 2015 until we can celebrate again with ardent fervor. Hell, I'll be
dead then!  Buried in My Toronado I might add. LOL


Ain't no drugs for this infection!

Greg.....  otherwise known as "Typhoid Toro"  Alas, I have found my new
screen-name!

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 00:58:59 -0300
Subject: Re: 1970 W32 

In a message dated 96-04-08 23:03:17 EDT, you write:

>
>In 1970, the W-32 referred to the 365hp engine in the Cutlass Supreme SX,
>which is different from the previous years, when it was an option on the
442.
>I am not quite sure how it worked out, order-wise, since a contemporary
>article refers to the "early" version of the SX having the 320hp 2-bbl 455
>(which my '70 SX came with), which was later "updated" to the 365hp 4-bbl
>455.
>
>So, I don't know if the 320hp motor was standard throughout the run of the
>SX, with the W-32 as an option, or if the 320hp motor was only installed in
>early cars, and *replaced* entirely with the 365hp W-32 motor.
>
>Apparently, there were no W-32 emblems or such to identify the 365hp motor
>(which was identical to the stock 442 'plant, but only called W-32 when
>installed in the Cutlass Supreme notchback body style).
>
>All the articles I have seen written on the C.S. SX have been too brief and
>general to be of much use. Anyone know of a good article or chapter that
>gives the definitive information on the SX option?
>
>

I don't know if this is what you want to know or not.  All info is taken from
the '70 Product Selling Features Album.  The SX (referred to under the
W-Machine tab as the SX Conversion) was the Y79  SX Performance Package and
included:

442 Rear Bumper w/cut-outs
Special Front Fender Emblems
Chrome Wheel Discs (P01)
320hp Rocket 455 H.C. Engine (L33) (no comment made about carb.)
Turbo Hydra-matic 400 Transmission (M40)
Full Dual Exhaust System includes straight-through muffler, resonators,
tailpipes.

>From the "New Features" column: "A new 320hp Rocket 455 V-8 (L33), with
2-barrel carburetor and dual exhausts, is available for Cutlass, Cutlass S,
Cutlass Supreme Holiday Sedan, and for Cutlass Supreme Holiday Coupe and
Convertible as part of a new SX Performance Package (Y79).

On 2-24-70, Oldsmobile New Car Merchandising issued memo #N/C 70-3,
Cancellation of L33 engine option.  This engine was cancelled for the balance
of the 1970 model year.

"The L31 engine, 365hp, 4bbl., 455 V-8 H.C., will now be included (as
replacement for the L33 engine) in Option Y79, the SX Performance Package for
models 4257 and 4267 only."  (L31 was the standard engine for the 98)

"The Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price for L31 with SX Performance
Package (Option Y79) is $141.13."

The chart on this memo also shows engine option W32 available with Y79:

"While the description of the L31 and the W32 engines (for SX Performance
Package) are similar, there is considerable difference in engine
characteristics.  The L31 engine is designed to operate with lower axle
ratios (2.56, 2.78, or 3.08) and develops maximum torque at lower rpm.
 Option W32 is a performance engine designed to operate with higher axle
ratios (3.08, 3.23, or 3.42) and develops maximum torque at higher rpm."

The produce selling feature album itself makes no reference to the W32 engine
or specifications.  It does give specifications for the 442 365hp engine,
which does develope torque at a higher rpm than the L31, but does not have an
option code.  I'm assuming it's the W32.  The memo gives no MSRP for the W32
w/Y79 either.

I would gladly send a photocopy of this memo to those interested if you send
me a SASE.  Email me directly for address if you are interested.
Phartlieb@aol.com.

Hope this helps

Paul

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 01:16:20 -0300
Subject: Bob "69 Toro" Do I, or don't I? 

Bob,

Glad to hear the juices are flowing again. 

First of all, tell your wife to get a job, or a least a second job!
 hehe..just kiddin!

The speedo is the LEAST of it. I'm concerned about the tranny leak. Yes,
there are leakers, gasket usually. But, I would check that beast out big
time. All fluids may leak as a result of sitting for so long, I have no
problem with that. Jack the front up (NOT BY THE BUMPER) as it will bend the
bumper into the grill (use a floor jack), and check for undercarriage damage.
Try and find the source of the leak. If it is low, around the gasket area,
give him cash money. If it leaks above, or from some untold origen, go to the
local tavern, have a beer, and rethink things. 

After you are buzzed up, go back and but it anyway, but for a cheaper price
(just so you feel better). 

Boy, that was fun!  LOL  Now seriously. Top off all the fliuds, take it for a
drive (at least for an hour at all speed ranges). Ask yourself the following
questions:

1. Does it shift smooth?
2. Does it burn oil (blue exhaust)?
3. Are the rods knocking?
4. ect ect ect
5. Park it for two days and return (in a new sopt) then check underneath!
What do you     find?
Then get back to me! Driving is believing, parking is knowing in this case!

Greg  (Typhoid Toro)

------------------------------

From: "Shawn M. Twomey" <stwom@ctp.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 01:58:08 -0300
Subject: Shifter plate 

>>I got something in the mail from Lauren Engineering-they are having 
>>one of their semi-annual Cutlass parts sales until the end of April. 
>>Oh, and they said something about working on a Hurst shifter plate. 
>>Now, if they're making a repro Lightning Rod, that'd be marvelous, 
>>but I'm not clear on what a shifter PLATE is.  Anybody? 

>They are probably referring to the bezel that covers the Dual/Gate
>shifters.  It is a chromed plastic part that has a thin section
>between the standard and manual patterns that regularly snaps off.

Couldn't be-Lauren makes parts for G-bodys, dual-gates weren't on the
G-bodies (78-87 Cutlasses), so it has to be a Lightning Rod thing (or so I
surmise).

__________________________________________________________________________
Shawn M. Twomey     |  "No!  Try NOT!  Do, or do not.  There is no try."
stwom@ctp.com       |  -Yoda
__________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

From: "Shawn M. Twomey" <stwom@ctp.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 02:02:58 -0300
Subject: TH200C and 200-4R 

> 
> Isn't that 3sp the TH200C, or something like that?  A well-built 200R4, as
> long as you don't go too far over 300, should be fine.  You'll want a stall
> converter like a 442s (GNs?) or similar.

>From the numbers, I'd assume the 200C and the 200R4 are similar trannys.  Are
>the bolt patterns the same then?  What about the bolt patterns for a 307/350/
>403.  Are they gonna be the same?

My '84 Gutlass has the Buick V6 and 3sp auto, I THINK I saw it referred to
as the TH200C.  Anyway the 200-4R is a 4sp, so they're different.

Bolt patterns for any Buick, Olds, & Pontiac motor are the same, Chevys are
different.  The 200-4R is what you want for an Olds, the 700-R4 has a Chevy
bolt pattern.

__________________________________________________________________________
Shawn M. Twomey     |  "No!  Try NOT!  Do, or do not.  There is no try."
stwom@ctp.com       |  -Yoda
__________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

From: "Shawn M. Twomey" <stwom@ctp.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 02:06:17 -0300
Subject: 

>Can't do it right now as it's about 2700 miles away.  I could have my father
>check in a couple weeks though when he's home.  How do you tell which head
>it is?

Just did this, based on someone else's advice.  Stand on the driver's side.
Find the battery cable that runs to the block just in front of the #1 spark
plug.  Right under where it goes into the block you will find either a "5A"
(earlier style) or a "7A" (later style).  Let us know what you find.

__________________________________________________________________________
Shawn M. Twomey     |  "No!  Try NOT!  Do, or do not.  There is no try."
stwom@ctp.com       |  -Yoda
__________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

From: Willie <aceface@ohana.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 02:24:18 -0300
Subject: Re: Causes of Backfire

Pat Clark 952-3776 wrote:
> 
> What causes a car to stumble and backfire at low rpm acceleration?
> 
> (Another dumb question (tm) by Pat Clark)
> 
>           ___              ___        _________
>          /   |            /   |      /         \
>         /    |           /    |     |   ___    |
>        /     |          /     |     |__|   |   |
>       /      |         /      |           /   /
>      /       |        /       |          /   /
>     /   /|   |       /   /|   |         /   /
>    /   /_|   |__    /   /_|   |__      /   /
>   |             |  |             |    /   /
>   |______     __|  |______     __|   /   /_____
>          |   |            |   |     |          |      Pat Clark
>          |___|            |___|     |__________|       69 442
>                                                       400/400
> 
>    "Just your average 300+hp garage hogging, gas sucking, money pit"


It's probably your accelerator pump. You are not getting that extra bit of gas when you accelerate so your engine is bogging 
out. It is probably stuck or your plunger is no good. Time to rebuild that Carb!!!! Once you fix it you will notice how much 
more acceleration you have you will be very happy and NO BOGGING and BACKFIRING!

Willie!

------------------------------

From: Willie <aceface@ohana.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 02:26:27 -0300
Subject: Re: Causes of Backfire

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 8 Apr 1996, Pat Clark 952-3776 wrote:
> > What causes a car to stumble and backfire at low rpm acceleration?
> >
> > (Another dumb question (tm) by Pat Clark)
> 
> You've trademarked them, while I've patented the stupid mechanical move
> ("Let me just give this another twist... <snap> oh s**t...").  :)
> 
> Seriously, I suspect this is related to your question last week which
> reminded me of the woes I had with my '68. When it was acting up it did
> this too. Andy's answer hit some of the main suspects. I'd still be
> suspicious of the coil and/or dwell setting on the points. If the dwell
> is off it can cause symptoms similar to timing problems. A stumble on
> acceleration can also be related to accelerator pump problems but that
> wouldn't explain the backfire.
> 
> Mine is OK now but if it ever gets back to causing problems I've pretty
> much decided that the points are outta there and I'm going to pick up one
> of the "Ignitor" gizmos by Pertronics that Mr. Ludlam told us about a few
> months back. I see that they're in the Year One catalog now so you ought
> to be able to pick one up elsewhere for about half the price...
> 
> Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada


Accelerator pumps do cause backfires! It backfires through the carb as well as your tailpipe!

Willie!

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 02:46:18 -0300
Subject: Re: Causes of Backfire 

Pat,

I agree with Willie.

With any problem, start with the easiest thing to fix if it fits the problem
profile.

Personally, I would check the fuel filter aslo. Then perhaps the float
setting, you might be starving for gas after the accellerator pump gives it
the initial dose of go juice.

If that doesn't work, follow the other more detailed advice I that I saw you
got from others.

E-mail me if you still have problems.

Greg (Typhoid Toro)   E-mail address Toronado66@aol.com

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 02:59:05 -0300
Subject: Re: Causes of Backfire 

Ooops,

Disregard that last gibberish, I misunderstood the initial question! Sorry,
its getting late.

I may reply when I'm more lucid!

):

Night night!

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 05:10:00 -0300
Subject: Re: Getting wet 

>On Fri, 5 Apr 1996, Peg O'Connor wrote:
>
>> >      Except that the evap. core and heater core are two entirely different
>> > critters from two entirely different systems. They just share the same
>> > room :)
>> > The heater doesn't require any specialized training or cert's, but the A/C
>> > does.  
>> 
>> This is all true -- and it has the same results for the floorboard!
>
>I beg to differ on this point!   A leaking heater core has the
>potential to divert several liters of engine coolant into
>the passenger compartment, with a concomitant 'sickly sweet' aroma.
>On the other hand, a leaking A/C evaporator can, at worst, produce a
>small oil stain somewhere (about 2 ounces).  The placement of the
>evaporator is such to allow for drainage of condensate, through a small
>orifice at the bottom of its housing, outside the car.  Any
>oil leaks will manifest outside.  Also, at atmospheric temperatures
>and pressures, any R-12 that is lost will be in the gaseous state.
>A leaking evaporator should not be evident inside a car.

     Yeah, gotta second that one!  If there's anything greater that say an
ounce of water in the A/C system, odds are pretty good it doesn't work for
very long!  If the evap. is dropping moisture on the floorboards, it'd be a
good idea to check the lower portion of the A/C housing and make sure that
hole isn't plugged (or I should say:  Unplug that hole!)

    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 05:49:05 -0300
Subject: Easter Egg Hunt! 

     Well, I made it back to my hometown for my Easter Break...  (some
break:  I had a 4 day weekend from school, but had to work Friday, Saturday
and Monday!  Ouch!)  Anyway, spent Thurs' and Fri' putting my cam and intake
in (gotta have those for a trip, right?) and finished up about five minutes
before I had to work on Sat.  Got off work at Midnight, and got out of town
about 2:00, uh, 3:00 new time!  (Yeah, that's A.M. by the way...)  At any
rate, I had little time for final tuning of my new system...  Got "home" at
8:15 after a long, L O N G night of driving (not without troubles,
either...)  I found out the hard way that the little rubber seal under the
timing cover can be a real pain in the , um , kazoo!  I can't recall ever
having trouble with them before, but this one apparantly expected me to
remove the oil pan before I put the timing cover back on.  Of course I
wasn't about to do that, and I thought I had defeated the critter...  Until
my oil pressure gauge started dropping after 70 miles!  Pulled over, dropped
a quart in, took off again.  20 miles... pulled over; put ANOTHER quart
in...  Looked under car...  utterred some obscenity about that seal sticking
straight DOWN from the oil pan...  15 miles later... pulled over, put a
quart of oil in...  decided to slow down to about 50 mph.  30 miles later...
pulled over... put last know quart of oil in...  prayed I could make another
35 miles to the only 24 hr. gas station left in this corner of the state!
15 miles later...  pulled over at what appears to be an abandoned gas
station in a pop.-250 max town...  decided since I was down to about 15 psi,
I'd better just spend the night in the car and hope this place actually
opens Easter Sunday (if at all!)  On a whim I search trunk for old forgotten
relics...  Found:  1 quart 10W30!  Made it the last 20 miles to the gas
station...   Whew!  Bought CASE of oil, and filled up tank (11 gallons) and
crankcase - (three quarts!)  Now six AM, I go in and pay the man.  He tells
me $42.00!  I give him this look like 'you're a week late, buddy" but it's
too early and it ends up being a dumbfounded stare.  Nope, no April Fools
joke, 26 bucks for 12 quarts of oil!  Not synthetic, or anything fancy,
either.  I decide it's a little cheaper than bearings and crank, and a lot
cheaper than a tow truck, expecially on Easter Sunday, so I give him a check
and be on my way.  Six quarts later and I am home!  Whew!
     Anyway, I'm finally home, so I do some snooping around the area.
First, I come across an old '73 Toro that has become a second home for many
mice, and I'm sure many other farm-type critters, too.  Interior is SHOT!
Pop the hood, yep, 455, shoot some cleaner on here, lets see...  "F"
block...  look over here, rub some crud out of the way, Yep, it's Easter...
Great big "C"  :)   Score!  Think to myself...  "What year is this car?"
Then reassure my self...  "Who cares!"  Start talking to the Farmer guy that
owns it, says he had considerred hanging onto it and cutting off the roof
and trunk to haul spray tanks and the like on the field...  NO JOKE!
Granted the interior was worthless, and that would be better than rotting,
but those are C heads, and they belong on My car, right?  I hold back the
urge to tell him he's out of his !@$%^# mind, partially because I didn't
want to offend him, and partially 'cuz he's my dad, and I figured I'd talk
him out of 'em sooner of later.  (I was right!)  A simple explanation of the
little springs in the back and a bribe to try to find him an engine for his
spray truck and it's as good as done!  One more hurdle down.  Oh, the heads
were off his '68 Delta (I think that's the year...) The Toro had belonged to
a friend of his, and overheated, cracking the existing heads.  The Delta was
down with a broken crank, so the heads were loaned to the friend.  When
friend was done with car, heads came back... with car.
     On to more Easter eggs!  Checked out the '69 Ninety Eight LS sitting in
the boneyard (Many years since totalled, and always overlooked, cuz the
entire drivetrain is gone)  Got to thinking about other options it might
have, so I looked, and found (and took) the vacuum trunk release and switch,
(all aparantly functional, but no vacuum tank anywhere to try on the car...)
Grabbed the emblems from the doors, dash and C-pillars, and went on my merry
way.  4 door hardtops were cool, weren't they?  Look kinda funny shaped like
pretzels, tho!
     Well, I guess that's enuf egg hunting for me, cuz I didn't find much
else, so I fixed my car instead.  It's amazing what you can do with a tube
of SmurfCum!  (apologies to the offense-impaired!)  Took one quart to make
it back those 250 miles, for a grand total of 22 quarts in 24 hours!  That's
something to tell the Grandkids ('course, I suppose I'd have to have kids
first, BUT...) Well, for now I can concentrate on more immediate needs, like
getting that Holley Firestarter back out from under my hood, and getting
something Good in its place!  (granted it looks cool, well, except for that
dripping...)  Even with that monster in there my hood still closes, too!
Amazing since that Performer intake sticks it up a mile or two, and I can't
put a Toro a/c on that Holley.  Hood does close, but I have to perch the
back of the hood up about half an inch, and kinda press down kinda hard on
the front, but it does close ;)
I've got an AFB and a QuadraJet to play with, when I get the next day off...
     Anyway, enough babbling, there's my Easter story hour...  the end, etc.

               :)

    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 10:24:54 -0300
Subject: Wanted: 2x4 SB intake

Have a person looking for a 2x4 intake for a SMALL block engine.

Must be rare. Anybody have one, extra, hogging up space? Anybody ever even
heard of one?

Replies directly please...
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 02:18:28 -0300
Subject: Re: Irradic G-Body Tach INFO

OLDSPWR@aol.com wrote:

> I tried soldering the two points, but fried the IC chip in one 
> tach because I used to much heat.  

A common problem when soldering.  A couple of things to help:

1) Use a "heat-sink".  Clip a good conductor of heat between the 
solder point and that which you seek to protect.  Hemostats or even a 
pair of vise-grips.  The idea is the larger surface will disipate the 
heat and not allow much of it to get to the components.

2) Don't use a LARGE soldering gun.  While it can be done the greater 
heat makes it easier to fry stuff.  Use a 35-50 watt soldering pencil.

3) Make sure the soldering pencil has had plenty of time to warm up.  
Trying to wait for it to heat up as you solder allows more time for heat 
to transfer to the components.  Touch the solder to the pencil.  When it 
melts easily, it ready.  Also a thin coating of melted solder on the tip 
"tins" it and will give you better heat transfer to the connection.

4) Make sure the wires, terminals, etc, are CLEAN.  Corrosion and other 
goo will prevent a good solder joint.  Use a wire brush or emery paper to 
clean them if necessary.

Give it a try, it works.  In many years of working on electronic systems 
of one type or another, I've rarely distroyed a component.  (I said 
rarely - not never).

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 12:27:35 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: 403 note 

          
Hmmm.  Are they really that gullible (I hope)?  I'm thinking I may just 
try doing this very thing.  I guess from the outside, they really wouldn't 
look different would they?

        From the outside they don't look different at all because the 
        260-307-330-350-403 are all the same basic block.  Even the big 
        block Olds motors are hard for a non-Olds expert to distinguish 
        from a small block, as they are also the same basic block design 
        with a one inch taller deck height (ya, ya,...and all the 
        beefed-up internal structure and parts...but externally the 
        distributor, valve covers, water pump, front cover, oil pan, etc 
        are the same).
          
On a related note, does the 403/350/307 all use the same intake manifold? 
Does Holley, Edlebrock or anbody else make a TBI unit for these engines or 
maybe a TPI system with intake manifold?  (Suppose I'd have to wait till 
after the emissions test for this though.)

        Here we go again... This was discussed in gory detail several 
        weeks ago...Anybody save copies they could forward to Dan 
        directly?  Dan, what's your email address?
        
        Joe Padavano
        jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
        
        66 442
        68 W-30
        69 H/O
        70 W-30

------------------------------

From: Lucas Frick <frick@macrochip.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 11:38:24 -0300
Subject: spark plug problems

Has anyone had a problem using Bosch Platinum spark plugs?
I am using a MSD ignition on a 500 mile old engine (455).  The crazy =
thing about it is that two of the plugs are really crappy - black junk =
caked on and the other 6 are burning fine.  I can't tell if the junk is =
from oil or gas.  Probably a combination that perpetuated the problem.  =
I bought some Champions this morning and will install them after I get =
done working.

Luke  71 442 in Dallas

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 12:36:53 -0300
Subject: Re: wheels 

          Dave,
          
          I've run BF Goodrich 255/60R15s on my 69 H/O on the factory 
          15X7 wheels with no problem.  They look great because they 
          completely fill the wheel well.  I've had some minor rubbing 
          from the fronts at full steering lock on hard bumps, but it 
          really hasn't been a problem.
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30
          

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 12:39:23 -0300
Subject: Re: 1970 W32 

          
          My 1970 dealer brochure lists the W-32 as a Cutlass SX 
          performance option
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: <tc75918@hpr169.mdhc.mdc.com>
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 1996 06:50:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Re[2]: 403 note

> On a related note, does the 403/350/307 all use the same intake manifold? 
> Does Holley, Edlebrock or anbody else make a TBI unit for these engines or 
> maybe a TPI system with intake manifold?  (Suppose I'd have to wait till 
> after the emissions test for this though.)
> 
>         Here we go again... This was discussed in gory detail several 
>         weeks ago...Anybody save copies they could forward to Dan 
>         directly?  Dan, what's your email address?

That would be    tc75918@hpr169.mdhc.mdc.com

Fire away...  :-)

- --Dan

------------------------------

From: Sandy Stewart <WASTEWART@gov.pe.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 13:53:41 -0300
Subject: Vista Cruiser, Part Twoser: The Parting (Out) -and yeah,  

	       it's long... -Reply

I was wondering if Bob Barry (or anyone else out there in cyberspace)
has the following parts to sell:

from a 1972 Cutlass or Vista cruiser with 350 with 2bbl carb:

a) the idle speed solenoid (that fits on the front left of the carb)
b) the bracket for the solenoid
c) the jumper wire from the solenoid to the wire harness

I need these for my 72 442 W-30.

Thanks,

Sandy Stewart                   WAStewart@gov.pe.ca
Prince Edward Island
Canada

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 14:38:05 -0300
Subject: Re: spark plug problems 

Maybe the rings haven't broken in yet or as well as the other cylinders?  
Were the combustion chambers and/or plugs caked like this when you tore the 
engine down during rebuild?  Compression test on those two cylinders, and 
compared to other cylinders?  Manifold vacuum guage readings?

Since the other 6 look fine, I doubt it's the plugs.  Could try swapping the two
after cleaning them, and see if the problem reoccurs on the same cylinders, and 
what happens to the formally caked plugs in their new home.


Last night I tore down a freebie mower B&S 3.5hp that was hard to start and 
smoked.  Thought it was bad rings.  Found the exhaust valve tipped in the guide.
Removal of the valve revealed a valve stem worn 1/16" on one side, with a good 
amount of valve guide mouth wear on both ends (.030" is a bit much!), and the 
fact that it hadn't made a seal in a while.  The valve faces have a nice wear 
ring - can't wait to see the seats!  Poor abused engine!  Maybe I could repair 
the integral, non-replaceable guide with JB Weld :)!  Maybe I'll scout around a 
bit during spring clean up days.

David Brown
dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu    (312) 702-9157
"Oldsmobile - powerful roadsters with big V8s"

- ------------------

Has anyone had a problem using Bosch Platinum spark plugs?
I am using a MSD ignition on a 500 mile old engine (455).  The crazy =
thing about it is that two of the plugs are really crappy - black junk =
caked on and the other 6 are burning fine.  I can't tell if the junk is =
from oil or gas.  Probably a combination that perpetuated the problem.  =
I bought some Champions this morning and will install them after I get =
done working.

Luke  71 442 in Dallas

------------------------------

From: clark@sh28.dseg.ti.com (Pat Clark 952-3776)
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 13:40:02 -0300
Subject: toro fever

>Ain't no drugs for this infection!

>Greg.....  otherwise known as "Typhoid Toro"  Alas, I have found my new
>screen-name!

Prozac maybe?

(should have never made that "infection spreads remark"!)

Which reminds me Greg. Do you have any way of putting a list together of who is
on this list and what kind of car they have (have to keep tabs on you Toro 
guys!) ;>)


          ___              ___        _________
         /   |            /   |      /         \
        /    |           /    |     |   ___    |
       /     |          /     |     |__|   |   |
      /      |         /      |           /   /   
     /       |        /       |          /   /   
    /   /|   |       /   /|   |         /   /
   /   /_|   |__    /   /_|   |__      /   /
  |             |  |             |    /   /
  |______     __|  |______     __|   /   /_____
         |   |            |   |     |          |      Pat Clark
         |___|            |___|     |__________|       69 442
						      400/400

   "Just your average 300+hp garage hogging, gas sucking, money pit"

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 12:41:55 -0300
Subject: Re: spark plug problems 

>Maybe the rings haven't broken in yet or as well as the other cylinders?  
>Were the combustion chambers and/or plugs caked like this when you tore the 
>engine down during rebuild?  Compression test on those two cylinders, and 
>compared to other cylinders?  Manifold vacuum guage readings?

Agreed. If the goop on the two plugs is wet, perhaps the plugs aren't
firing at all; e.g. the insulation on the plug wires has chafed through
or burnt, say, where they flop over the top of the rocker cover perhaps.
If the compression test comes out fine, take a look at the ignition
system...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 15:00:21 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: greater chi yards; was: Bumper Disposal 

Unfortunately these guys are out of the salvage business - just called.

VAW, Hy-Way: Never been to either, but know the attitude.  Seems like all 
the yards in the Elgin, IL area are like this also.  City Auto Wreckers in 
Aurora is pretty good, but they don't keep anything long term (6 months +).

David Brown
dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu    (312) 702-9157
"Oldsmobile - powerful roadsters with big V8s"

- -------------------
Funny you should mention... my favorite non-u-pickem place was always
Evanston Auto Wreckers in North Suburban Chicago. (I think they're still
there; if you feel daring, dial (847) 475-4441 and see if they answer.)

<SNIP>

And really decent guys to deal with, too; not your junkyard-dog attitude
like you see at Victory Auto Wreckers or Hy-Way Auto Parts. (I think a
bunch of Chicago readers are probably nodding their heads by now... :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 15:14:44 -0300
Subject: Books 

I recently ordered a large selection of auto books.  Among them, _Smokey 
Yunick's Power Secrets_.  Smokey says he's rebuild all makes, but the 
blt*vy (you know!) is featured in photos and specific engine detail.  I 
think the book answers a good amount of questions about engine rebuilding.  
Emphasizes remembering the basics as a basis for performance mods.  
Although the emphasis is performance, he does break it down when 
considering street, strip, endurance racing.  I would recommend it.

Got this from ASAP (800 693 ASAP) for 14.95.  Jegs (800 345 4545) is the 
same price.  Both have HP and SA Design books.

David Brown
dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu    (312) 702-9157
"Oldsmobile - powerful roadsters with big V8s"

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 14:22:59 -0300
Subject: Re: spark plug problems

At 11:38 AM 4/9/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Has anyone had a problem using Bosch Platinum spark plugs?
>I am using a MSD ignition on a 500 mile old engine (455).  The crazy thing
about it is that two of the plugs are really crappy - black junk caked on
and the other 6 are burning fine.  I can't tell if the junk is from oil or
gas.  Probably a combination that perpetuated the problem.  I bought some
Champions this morning and will install them after I get done working.
>
>Luke  71 442 in Dallas
>
>
>
While I don't have Bosch Platinum's in my Cutlass (I use AC Delco), I do
have them in my other car...A Mitsubishi Eclipse.  You can't compare the
engines (2.0 liter rice burner vs. 455 cubic inches of American muscle...),
but I have no problems with the plugs.  Gunk on the plugs is usually not the
plugs fault, it's usually on ignition (detonation, etc.) or engine problem
(valve or piston ring problem). 

- --
Dave Paulison
69 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: eda@dl.tc.faa.gov
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 14:30:09 -0300
Subject: Re: Ram-Air, G-Body Tach update 

Re: the recent ram-air discussion, there's a thread about this over on rec.autos.tech right now; main points of interest are someone mentioned advancing your timing and possibly rejetting the carb to take advantage of the colder (denser) air.  Anyone care to comment?  Also, if using the bumper cutouts on later (mid-70's & up?) model Cutlasses, would moisture be a problem in rainy conditions?

Tom Lentz (<tlentz@teknon.com>) writes:
     When I first got my '84 H/O last year, I posted here about a problem 
     with the tachometer.  It would read about 1000rpm to high 
     occasionally.  Several people wrote back to say that they had the 
     exact same problem too.
     
     Well, I may have a solution for you, mine appears to be solved.  I 
     replaced the spark plug wires and coil over a month ago and the 
     problem went away and hasn't come back.  Granted the problem was 
     intermittent anyways, so this may be a fluke.  I used the Accell HEI 
     Supercoil and Accell wires as replacements.
     
     I'm betting it was probably the plug wires at fault.  The Accell wires 
Hate to rain on your parade, Tom, (what rain? *your* tach works! ;) but a new coil and a set of Blue Max wires hasn't solved mine.  Glad to hear yours is better, anyway.  Trying to remember what the guys at the shop told me on that (a while back, I took it to a place that specializes in electrical work, they didn't find it, but ruled out a couple things).

Ed Atlee			'77 Cutlass Supreme
eda@dl.tc.faa.gov		'84 Hurst/Olds
	R O C K E T	P O W E R E D ! !

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 13:25:46 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: greater chi yards; was: Bumper Disposal 

>Unfortunately these guys are out of the salvage business - just called.

Bummer. Should have got off my butt and called them myself first. Thanks
for checking.

>VAW, Hy-Way: Never been to either, but know the attitude.

Actually they're two different kinds of yards, now that I think about it.
Hy-Way, last time I went there, now insists on pulling parts themselves,
then charging eight billion dollars for them. This results in less damage
to the cars, no doubt, but eliminates any chance of lucking into something.
Hell, it takes all the fun out of it.

Victory Auto Parts is (I think) about the biggest in Chicagoland and still
lets you roam the yard once you get past the front desk by telling them
what specific parts you're looking for (probably a cursory check to see if
you look drunk/likely-to-steal-something/dangerously-incompetent/etc.). I'm
slightly amazed that they still do this, because this place is one of the
most dangerous places I've ever seen. Cars stacked two-deep everywhere,
acres of mud, and several front-end loaders in constant use running back
and forth carrying cars. And those loader drivers never look where they're
going... 

But for all that, it's great to roam around and find all kinds of treasure.
And being able to pick the best-condition, tan-color, left rear armrest 
support bracket from among five different cars is something you can take
the time to do that Hy-Way would never bother with.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 14:24:16 -0300
Subject: Re: wheels

At 12:36 PM 4/9/96 -0300, you wrote:
>
>          Dave,
>          
>          I've run BF Goodrich 255/60R15s on my 69 H/O on the factory 
>          15X7 wheels with no problem.  They look great because they 
>          completely fill the wheel well.  I've had some minor rubbing 
>          from the fronts at full steering lock on hard bumps, but it 
>          really hasn't been a problem.
>          
>          Joe Padavano
>          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
>          
>          66 442
>          68 W-30
>          69 H/O
>          70 W-30
>          
>
>
OK, thanks, Joe...I'll give that size a try.
- --
Dave Paulison
69 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: Tony Molinaro <bakereng.com!AMOLINARO@bakereng.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 15:15:53 -0300
Subject: 1969 442 Parts 

Hey this email for oldsmobiles is great. Good Idea. I am glad I found it.

I'm looking for parts

1. set of 4 wheel trim rings
2. Wood grain dash inlay
3. Misc body parts, fenders,quarters

I would apriciate any info you have.

Anyone have any prefered methods to putting power to the
ground. 

Any prefered 455 cam\head\intake\carb cominations that work.  I'm
looking for a weekend crusier.

I have a 69 442 with a 455 .030 over, B heads, unknown cam, 4 speed,
and 4.11 in the rear. I t does good now, but I think it could be better. 

------------------------------

From: Nick DiGiovanni <ndigiova@direct.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 14:10:17 -0300
Subject: Re: 1970 W32 

At 08:10 PM 4/8/96 -0300, you wrote:
>
>I don't think the W32 was made after 1969, was it? My literature from 1970
>talks about the W-30 455, W-31 350, no W-32, W-33 performance Delta 88,
>and W-34 performance Toro. 
>
>Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
>
>From the articles that I have:

In 1969, there were 297 4-4-2's with the W-32 option built.
In 1970, "A very small number of W-32 machines were built.  The 4-4-2 no
longer received the option, however.  That honor went to the Cutlass
Supreme, which also carried the SX package.  A 455ci engine with 365hp
available made the W-32 great in its second year.  Once again, the standard
transmition was the M-40 Turbo Hydra-matic.  Also this year, the W-32
included dual exhaust, but the decals were gone.  When you get right down to
it, all the W-32 consisted of in its second and final year was an engine
option.  In fact, you'd really have to call it an "unofficial W-32"."  It
goes on to say, "The only year both the SX and the W-32 were available was
1970.  Both were available as options on the Cutlass Supreme.  Reportedly,
there were 7,197 SX-optioned Cutlass S models built that year."  The amount
of W-32 optioned cars built is listed as unknown.

Nick DiGiovanni
Port Coquitlam, B.C.
1970 4-4-2 - "Snarls Softly and Carries a Big Kick"

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 15:30:49 -0300
Subject: Misc. Stuffs

> Does any one know the difference in the casting # 5, #6, and #7? I have =
> also seen some heads being call 5a and 7a is this just another name or =
> are thay different heads? if thay are the same then where do you get the =
> (a) from.
>         James Smith

We need that FAQ, so that these kinda things can be looked up... There's about
117 different variations on the Olds SB head... well, not THAT many, not as
many as the 'THE' small block...
  They started with #1 in 1964, ended with what, #7A, 2A, etc. in 1990... Best
part is, there's two kinds of 7A's, and three kinds of 7's all together.
  In 1971, the head had a "7" cast on the lower left corner, and casting number
???147 [?] elsewhere [I have no memory...] In 1972, the "7" had a little tiny
capital "A" by it, set down a bit, usually, sorta subscripted. Since I cannot
indicate subscript in this kind of text, I usually type "7a" for this head, to
differentiate it from...
   The later [1985-1990??] head used on 307's [?], with a totally different
casting number, and a "7A" cast on the lower left corner, this time the "A" is
the same size as, and right next to, the "7"... and the surface on which they
are cast, where the head's freeze plug is... is Rounded Off, not square as it
drops off at the left end...
  I'll leave it to others to extrapolate on the internal and functional
differnces of the various & sundry [love that word] sb head differences,
suffice to say that the most critical would be combustion chamber size, and its
effect on compression ratio, and vlave seat use, as it affects longevity when
using unleaded fuel, as we all are nowadays, right?
   Mondello's catalog lists chamber cc's for most all Olds heads...

> >I called this guy.  His wife, apparently, had forgotten to say 442-STYLE
> >wheels, and they're only 14s.  "Well, the paper does make mistakes
> >sometimes..."  I guess.  The wheels, according to him, are in cherry shape
> >(painted black in the middles), and the tires are about half gone.  Anyone
> >interested, let me know.

Hey, they can't ALL be gems! Who knew, but man, that's a far cry from what the
ad said... Prolly the same guy who has a "403 big block" in a car with a "coil
reduction hood" and a "12 volt rear end"...

> >For those interested, I got my '85 442 out to look at the head numbers, and
> >they are 5As(the older style).  Unless GM changed in the middle of the model
> >year, its safe to say that the 7As with the different cam weren't around
> >'till '86.

I'd love to hear from anyone who can mail me, if it's convenient, stuff like:
- -Engine block ID on the shelf behind the water pump
- -Head ID
- -Intake ID, or at least material [AL or cast iron], port size @ head?
- -type of lifter [roller or not]

I'm especially weak on information on the post-76 engines... Thanks.

> Maybe only the 85 442s came with 5A heads because my brother, Brodie's 85
> Salon has 7A heads.  Changing halfway through the year is the only thing I
> can think of.  Once we take apart my brothers 85 motor, we'll see whats in
> it according to cam and lifters.  After we took out my 86 motor w/ 7A heads,
> we noticed that the exhaust ports are oval.  On the 5A heads, the exhaust
> ports are rectangular.  This is probably the reason why headers aren't made
> for the 7As.  Dan or anyone else with an 85 want to see what they got.
> Brandon

I'd buy the 442= 5A heads cuz of better flow theory... Sounds plausible.

>      There is only one problem that needs to be fixed.  It seems that we
> have way to much pressure (somehow,someway) because we are getting small oil
> leaks around the oil filter and the rear of the engine.  Enough pressure to
> shoot oil out the top of the dipstick tube.  My guage dosen't show high oil
> pressure and we even bought a new guage to test the oil pressure from inside
> the engine bay.   (And no we did not put 8 quarts of oil in :)

Hmmm... If the gage says the oil pressure is OK, then it must be. Besides,
excess oil pressure is not going to cause oil to come out of the dipstick tube-
that sits in the sump area, which is supposed to be at atmoshpheric pressure or
a tiny bit below, as controlled by the PCV valve... Is the PCV functioning
properly?
  The Oil Filter mess sounds like a filter w/ wrong gasket diameter- measure
the filter's gasket and compare to the size of the pad on the filter mount.
Also, did you oil the filter gasket, and check for a damaged filter gasket mont
surface- that AL part can get bumped or bent in the installation process...

>      We're wondering if the rear main seal hasn't sealed up yet.
> Brandon

Did you not use a neoprene rear main seal? I *hate* those rope-type seals...
- -=Chris=-

> "I've also never used a kit from B&M or anyone else. ...<<SNIP>>...  If there
> is interest I could upload the TH400 only information from the '69 edition of
> these performance modification instructions.  They apply to _any_ TH400 of the
> era.
>           Yes, I'm very interested.  Either post here or if possible,

I second the motion! -=Chris=-

> I noticed when I was test driving that '85 Delta a few weeks back that
> the 307 was painted black. What a strange color to paint an engine!

I saw a black Olds engine at Padnos' last week... I did not give it another
thought after seeing it was a late-model 350-ish thing... Kinda funny, tho, now
that you mention it, it's rather rare. Replacement engine? Said "GM" on it...

> FLAMES, FLAMES, FLAMES...
> The 66 Toro and Mike
> Michael R. Frederick, CEO

Sure, but don't go for the Wussified 'painted-on' versions...
- -=Chris=-  :)

> wing on the convertible.  I asked him if he was trying to tell the wing is
> "incorrect" item and he said yes.  Really?  First, I have it on good
> authority that you could order any d--- thing you wanted because the goal was
> to sell cars not satisfy some "Correctness Expert".  Even if it wasn't

Well, there ya go... How far from 'correct' for a 1968 442 can I get? The block
is a 67 Toronado .921 lifter 425, heads are Ka marine/W30 replacement units,
Crank/ rods/ pistons are 1968 455, tri-carb intake setup froma '66... The whole
car is so far from being 'correct' and 'original' that there's no point trying.
Bad body rust, you know, so if I redo the car using say an AZ body, but my VIN
plate and trim tag, is that 'correct'? Who's to say? If not, then exactly how
much rusty metal CAN I snip away before we cross the line from 'OK, that's
still correct' to "oops, that's not the original body"? -Chris-

> > go with a 403 (like I did), but most of them do not have solid webs like you
>                                                            ^^^^^^^^^^
> I'm not sure what you mean by this.  Is this something that I neccessarily
> want?  What do I look for when I go to a junk yard looking for a block?

Heads #7a with the tiny subscript A is your best bet for a candidate- a 1972
350 engine. The open/solid main webs is a weight saving 'feature' of the later
[post-76??] blocks. The main bearing support saddles have to be connected to
the block somehow, right? Well, early blocks had a full continuous web from the
bearing out to the block in all directions. Later blocks had more like 2-3
'posts' of cast iron supporting the bearing, with big open holes between. Which
do you suppose is stronger? Now, if you never exceed the strength of the block,
that's not an issue, but if you run 11:1 compression to 7000 RPM, or Nitrous,
or whatever similar, then you are going to NEED the strongest block you can
get.  -Chris-

> As far as parts go (intake manifold, headers, hyd cams, roller lifters, etc.),
> is it any easier to find parts for the 350 vs 403?  Is there any kind of book
> that I can get that will tell me all I need to know about these engines?
> Things like what crank, pistons, rods, etc to use;  and maybe instructions on
> what and what not to do during a re-build?

With us here, what more could you ask for? :)
Yes, the 403 is more diffcult to find stuff for [forged pistons, e.g.], and
more expensive, too. But, then, the pistons & rods are about the only
differences that count to you... The cam is the same, most gaskets, etc.
Basically, a 403 might cost oh, guessing $200-400 more to build than a
comparable 350. -Chris-

- -Trans-
> person could handle?  Is this gonna be mounted to your 403 and does it take
> an adapter plate or do the bolt patterns match?

Trans bolt pattern is the same for all Buick-Olds-Pontiac-Cadillac V8's
1964-1990, s'far as I know. Have at it. -Chris-

> stronger (thicker) or does it just use stronger gears?  Is there any way to
> tell from the outside if a rear end has a posi diff in it?

Coupla ways: look for a tag that says "posi" or similar. Find the ratio code &
look it up. Crude but effective: Trans in Park- rear end up- spin one wheel...
if other spins in reverse direction w/o resistance: NOT POSI. If you can't spin
that one wheel by hand, because the driveshaft is not allowed to rotate cuz the
trans is in park [assumes driveshaft is in place], then it'd be a posi, most
likely... -Chris-

> What causes a car to stumble...?
                       ^^^^^^^
Um, alcohol in the fuel? :)  -Chris-

> see the cylinders (they definitely look new), but for the life of me can't fig
ure
> out how to get to them.  Can anyone out there help me out?
> Mike

Don't think you need to get them OUT to change the fluid... just drain it at
the pump/reservoir, put in correct fluid [ATF oughta do nicely], cycle the top
a few times, repeat, until the fluid is mostly 'correct' stuff and/or operation
is speeded to your content. -Chris-

> Chris, I swear that when I was having that conversation, I was thinking
> of you! All of my Olds engine trivia knowledge I owe to you... it was a
> real nice feeling to know something that the dealer didn't! Thanks.

*gets warm feeling*

> BTW, it was a dual Ch**y-Olds dealer, so maybe that explains the dumbness
> of it all...

Well, say no more! Next time, walk in and tell him you need a cam for " a small
block" and when he looks up C*evy parts, say, "no, a SMALL BLOCK, a 403..." and
keep talking like NO OTHER COMPANY ever made a "small block" engine... Heh...

> Also BTW, since the cam I was seeking is apparently unavailable, can
> someone inform me what a Dave Smith cam goes for (cheaper than Mondello I
> hope)?

Well, you might call Engle Cams directly, but the price diff is probably nearly
negligible, cams cost about $80-100 everywhere...
- -Chris-

- -P drivetrain (different, uh flexplate?  driveshaft length, etc.)  I agree on th
e odds of finding the wrecked H/O.  If you do, let me know! :-)

Funny, there's an 83 H/O here in town, TOTALLY ragged out, rusted beyond
structurally sound, beat up, etc. I see it, keep meaning to leave a flier,
acquire it someday for cheap, but hav not done so yet. -Chris-

> > self-appointed expert declares is correct.  In particular the muscle car era
> AMEM!!
Yeah, double-AHEM! I'll have you know my brother & I appointed *each other*
experts, so don't be callin' us 'self-appointed', Mister!  :)

> 1. should-have-been-restos:  building cars the factories should have
> built, and have it look like the factory did (a nice melding of the
> resto guys and the hot rodders).  .i.e. a 1966 442 425,, or a '79
> Cultass 455,  made to look somewhat factory...

YES! -Chris-

> together...STILL had a miss.  I pulled wires off plugs one at a time and
> found #5 was missing.  On the intake, right on the #5 runner is the vacuum
> source for the vacuum advance.  I checked the vacuum advance module, and the
> diaphragm had a big hole in it.  After I replaced the vacuum advance module,
> everything was fine.  No more miss!!
> Dave

Well, not exactly, Dave. If your vacuum advance is hooked directly to that port,
it's hooked up WRONG and is doing little to help you. I b'leeve the 69's had a
Thermo-vacuum switch at the front of the intake, whose purpose was to direct to
the dist'r vacuum canister either 1) PORTED [distributor port] vacuum,
normally, or 2) full manifold vacuum ONLY if the coolant temp were above oh,
243 degrees F or something like that.  Trust me.
- -Chris-

>      it)!  While my '79 w/ the 260 also had made similar trips many times,
>      you pretty much had to floor it just to maintain 45mph up the mountain
>      passes, and it threatened to overheat while doing so (never actually
>      did boil over, but I was forced to turn on the heater a time or two).
>      Tom L.

Tom, that's what Super gear is for... When the temp climbs, you go in second
for a while. Hill climbing and hill descending: use the gears. -Chris-

- --make a <whatever engine> look like a <whatever>
> Hmmm.  Are they really that gullible (I hope)?  I'm thinking I may just
> try doing this very thing.  I guess from the outside, they really wouldn't
> look different would they?

The appearance it very similar. A really sharp mechanic might have a book
telling what head #'s &/or block numbers to look for, but if those are
'missing' due to some judicious grinding or bondo work during the rebuild...
well, then what can they do but take your word for it. Go by the VIN code, etc.
Why you COULD even take some, oh, 5-min epoxy and form the 'correct' code on
the head... put a "2A" on the head, and voila' it's a 260 engine! :) -Chris-

> On a related note, does the 403/350/307 all use the same intake manifold?

Yes, and no. Same size, but the Diesel has that opening for the injection pump.
What? Oh, not the *Diesel* 350? :) OK, well, I have an AL 307? intake, whose
ports at the head surface are rather small. Smaller that the old SB's, smaller
than the 403's, but bigger than the 260's [I think]. Since this small port is
dumping into a head with a presumably matching or at worst larger hole, it
should work "OK". Of course a perfect match is best...
  I had posted those intake ports sizes a while back, maybe somebody saved
them. -Chris-

> BTW, you fellas with the 88's, 98's, Cutlasses, and 442's, (distant cousins
> albeit) there might be some motor crossovers with the 455's and Quadrajunks
> in the 68 Toros and later. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
> Greg  (The Ebola guy)

Greg, my current favorite project is a 425 buildup for a 78 Cutlass that a guy
races for kicks. Last summer, after he spun the bearing on an engine I sold him
first run, I let him borrow an engine- the 112K mile old 425 right out of the
parts Toronado, 1966. Untouched. I put his water pump on, blew off most of the
squirrel food &c. He was very happy to find that it cut a full second off his
1/4 mile times- went from a best of 14.5 with a '68 442-headed 455 7/8 HC
engine, to best of 13.65 I think with the 425. With the lo-rise intake. AND the
original, untouched, "QUADRAJUNK" carb. So watch it with the name-calling,
mister, unless you can  back it up with facts. Oh, yeah, that 14.5 second
engine was running an Edelbrock intake and a Holley [ooooooh!] carb.
  To clarify, no, I'm not "really po'd" or anything, I'd put a :) at the end if
I thought you'd care... but, hey, you DID ask to be corrected it wrong, eh?
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 15:47:24 -0300
Subject: RE: Wanted: 2x4 SB intake

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I've got one for a BB.

- ----------
From: 	Chris Brown Witt[SMTP:wittchri@pilot.msu.edu]
Sent: 	Tuesday, April 09, 1996 9:24 AM
To: 	oldslist
Subject: 	Wanted: 2x4 SB intake

Have a person looking for a 2x4 intake for a SMALL block engine.

Must be rare. Anybody have one, extra, hogging up space? Anybody ever even
heard of one?

Replies directly please...
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu




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From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 15:48:31 -0300
Subject: RE: spark plug problems

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I'd say the problem is probably not in the plugs

- ----------
From: 	Lucas Frick[SMTP:frick@macrochip.com]
Sent: 	Tuesday, April 09, 1996 10:38 AM
To: 	'oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca'
Subject: 	spark plug problems

Has anyone had a problem using Bosch Platinum spark plugs?
I am using a MSD ignition on a 500 mile old engine (455).  The crazy =
thing about it is that two of the plugs are really crappy - black junk =
caked on and the other 6 are burning fine.  I can't tell if the junk is =
from oil or gas.  Probably a combination that perpetuated the problem.  =
I bought some Champions this morning and will install them after I get =
done working.

Luke  71 442 in Dallas




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------------------------------

From: MIKE COCCAGNA <mikec@kis.net>
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 17:30:29 -0300
Subject: Re: Misc. Stuffs

> > I noticed when I was test driving that '85 Delta a few weeks back that
> > the 307 was painted black. What a strange color to paint an engine!
> 
> I saw a black Olds engine at Padnos' last week... I did not give it another
> thought after seeing it was a late-model 350-ish thing... Kinda funny, tho, now
> that you mention it, it's rather rare. Replacement engine? Said "GM" on it...
 
Not to bring back a week old issue (or counter a 'brother appointed 
expert'!) , but I believe the black engines you are seeing are the 
origional color.  The OE engine (307) in dad's '85 Delta was black    
when my parents bought the car new in '85.  I always thought it was   
strange since the Vista Cruiser they gave me had a heart painted
Olds blue.  :-)  Engine was still purring at 150,000 miles when some 
kind folks in Philly decided to borrow/steal/chop the car and it's 
parts. :-(


Mike
'91 W-40 Quad442 (should'a had a V8 :( )

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 16:35:22 -0300
Subject: Re: Misc. Stuffs

At 03:30 PM 4/9/96 -0300, you wrote:

>> together...STILL had a miss.  I pulled wires off plugs one at a time and
>> found #5 was missing.  On the intake, right on the #5 runner is the vacuum
>> source for the vacuum advance.  I checked the vacuum advance module, and the
>> diaphragm had a big hole in it.  After I replaced the vacuum advance module,
>> everything was fine.  No more miss!!
>> Dave
>
>Well, not exactly, Dave. If your vacuum advance is hooked directly to that
port,
>it's hooked up WRONG and is doing little to help you. I b'leeve the 69's had a
>Thermo-vacuum switch at the front of the intake, whose purpose was to direct to
>the dist'r vacuum canister either 1) PORTED [distributor port] vacuum,
>normally, or 2) full manifold vacuum ONLY if the coolant temp were above oh,
>243 degrees F or something like that.  Trust me.
>-Chris-
>
Yes, I have seen that vacuum switch up there at the front of the intake,
screwed into the coolant passage.  It's completely disconnected, though, and
I have no idea how to hook it up correctly.  I got the car from my
father-in-law, who was the second owner (he bought it in 1971).  While it
was somewhat maintained, several things have been
modified/disconnected/rigged over the years by his mechanics.  Therefore,
not everything is as it should be, although it is in much better shape now
than it was when I got it a few years ago.  Do you know the proper routing
and hookup of the vacuum lines?   The vacuum switch looks like this>

           _________
          |______   |
           ______|  |
          |______   |
           ______|  |     Intake Manifold
          |______   |         |
                 |  |         |
               __|  |__       | 
              |        |      |  
       _______|________|______V__


The line going to the vacuum advance is coming right off the back of the
intake on the #5 runner and going directly to the advance module on the
distributor.  There is also a port on my carb (origianl Q-jet 4bbl) in the
front that has been capped since I got the car.  I suppose that _should_ be
connected to something, but I don't know what.  From what you said, I would
surmise that the capped port on the carb and the manifold port would have a
vacuum line going to the vacuum switch on the front of the intake, and then
the third port of the vacuum switch would go back to the distributor.  The
vacuum would then be switched, depending on coolant temp, bewteen the ported
vacuum and full manifold vacuum.  I'm only guessing though...please help if
you can.  I will probably have to replace the vacuum switch, too.  I've seen
it in Year One's catalog for $35, but I can probably find it locally for
less.  Then figure out which port is which on the switch...  

One more thing...the water temp sensor (for the dummy light in the dash) has
two terminals on it, but only one is connected to anything.  I cant find any
loose wires to attach to the second terminal.  Should there be?  Or was the
temp sensor replaced with the wrong one at some time?

Thanks in advance    
 
- --
Dave Paulison
69 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 16:39:01 -0300
Subject: RE: spark plug problems

At 03:48 PM 4/9/96 -0300, you wrote:
>I'd say the problem is probably not in the plugs
>
>----------
>From: 	Lucas Frick[SMTP:frick@macrochip.com]
>Sent: 	Tuesday, April 09, 1996 10:38 AM
>To: 	'oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca'
>Subject: 	spark plug problems
>
>Has anyone had a problem using Bosch Platinum spark plugs?
>I am using a MSD ignition on a 500 mile old engine (455).  The crazy thing
about it is that two of the plugs are really crappy - black junk caked on
and the other 6 are burning fine.  I can't tell if the junk is from oil or
gas.  Probably a combination that perpetuated the problem.  I bought some
Champions this morning and will install them after I get done working.
>
>Luke  71 442 in Dallas
>
>
>
>
>Attachment Converted: C:\METROLNK\EUDORA\REsparkp
>
What was the attachment???
- --
Dave Paulison
69 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 16:39:54 -0300
Subject: RE: Wanted: 2x4 SB intake

At 03:47 PM 4/9/96 -0300, you wrote:
>I've got one for a BB.
>
>----------
>From: 	Chris Brown Witt[SMTP:wittchri@pilot.msu.edu]
>Sent: 	Tuesday, April 09, 1996 9:24 AM
>To: 	oldslist
>Subject: 	Wanted: 2x4 SB intake
>
>Have a person looking for a 2x4 intake for a SMALL block engine.
>
>Must be rare. Anybody have one, extra, hogging up space? Anybody ever even
>heard of one?
>
>Replies directly please...
>--
>Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
>wittchri@pilot.msu.edu
>
>
>
>
>Attachment Converted: C:\METROLNK\EUDORA\REWanted
>
What was the attachment???
- --
Dave Paulison
69 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: Dave Voorhis <dave@armchair.mb.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 17:02:55 -0300
Subject: RE: spark plug problems 

At 04:39 PM 09/04/96 -0300, you wrote:

>>Attachment Converted: C:\METROLNK\EUDORA\REsparkp
>>
>What was the attachment???

That's a side-effect of using Microsoft Exchange under Windows 95.  I run a
couple of mailing lists, and unintentional attachments from Exchange users
became irritating enough that I had to set up a filter to prevent messages
with attachments from being posted.

If you're an Exchange user, you might find the info at
http://www.creativelement.com/win95ann/win95ann5.html#13 useful, but the
best way to avoid these problems is simply to avoid Exchange.  Eudora for
Windows is far better, IMHO.

Dave Voorhis, Toro disease infectee
dave@armchair.mb.ca
http://www.armchair.mb.ca/~dave

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 16:05:29 -0300
Subject: Re: Misc. Stuffs 

>Yes, I have seen that vacuum switch up there at the front of the intake,
>screwed into the coolant passage.  It's completely disconnected, though, and
>I have no idea how to hook it up correctly.

This is a wild-assed guess so take it as such, but anyway: If the thing
is going to switch vacuum on and off based on temperature, which I assume
is what it does, if it's going to be able to turn vacuum off, it has to
not only close the connection between the vacuum source and whatever it
operates, but also purge the downline segment (e.g. from the valve to
the distributor vacuum advance) of vacuum by allowing air in. So of the
three ports you showed in your diagram, one would be for the line from
the manifold to the valve, the second would be from the valve to the
vacuum advance, and the third would remain open, to allow air into the
second line when the first line was cut off. If it didn't allow air
into the vacuum line to the distributor, the vacuum advance would remain
on even after the vacuum source had been closed off.

Yes, it could function to switch between two vacuum sources, too.

>One more thing...the water temp sensor (for the dummy light in the dash) has
>two terminals on it, but only one is connected to anything.  I cant find any
>loose wires to attach to the second terminal.  Should there be?  Or was the
>temp sensor replaced with the wrong one at some time?

I think so, but it's harmless. It sounds like you have an old-style sending
unit switch which controls not only your "HOT" light but also a "COLD"
light, if the car was equipped with one. Old Ch*vies from the early '60's
use this to operate a green "COLD" light on the dash. You were supposed to
moderate your driving until the "COLD" light went off to signal that the
engine was warming up. See if the mystery contact is grounded when the
engine is cold, then ceases to function as a ground when the engine warms
up. Try simply plugging your HOT light wire onto it, see if the light
comes on initially when you start the engine, then goes off after five
minutes.

Later switches would still show a molded recess on the top where the COLD
contact used to be, even after that part was discontinued. Our '69 had a
HOT contact only, with an empty molded inset right next to it. By '72,
the whole sending unit had been redesigned and no trace of the COLD contact
remained.

Don't pitch that two-contact switch if you decide to replace it with the
right one; somebody told me they're hard to find.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Lucas Frick <frick@macrochip.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 17:32:02 -0300
Subject: Re: spark plug problems

Thanks for all the feedback.  This group is great!  =20
After talking to a couple other people with MSD systems I found out that =
the stock plug wires can't handle the high output.  This would cause the =
weak spark or no spark that fouled out the 2 plugs.  I don't think I =
have heard one good thing about the platinum plugs. =20

I just bought some 8mm Mallory wires -  Hope this works, I don't want =
any major problems.  Besides I haven't done anything lately to make my =
car jealous or given it any reason at all to be pissed off.  I might =
just have to sit down and give it a good talking to.

I'll try to fix that attachment thing.


Luke

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 17:34:06 -0300
Subject: Re: Misc. Stuffs

At 04:05 PM 4/9/96 -0300, you wrote:
>>Yes, I have seen that vacuum switch up there at the front of the intake,
>>screwed into the coolant passage.  It's completely disconnected, though, and
>>I have no idea how to hook it up correctly.
>
>This is a wild-assed guess so take it as such, but anyway: If the thing
>is going to switch vacuum on and off based on temperature, which I assume
>is what it does, if it's going to be able to turn vacuum off, it has to
>not only close the connection between the vacuum source and whatever it
>operates, but also purge the downline segment (e.g. from the valve to
>the distributor vacuum advance) of vacuum by allowing air in. So of the
>three ports you showed in your diagram, one would be for the line from
>the manifold to the valve, the second would be from the valve to the
>vacuum advance, and the third would remain open, to allow air into the
>second line when the first line was cut off. If it didn't allow air
>into the vacuum line to the distributor, the vacuum advance would remain
>on even after the vacuum source had been closed off.
>
>Yes, it could function to switch between two vacuum sources, too.
>
>>One more thing...the water temp sensor (for the dummy light in the dash) has
>>two terminals on it, but only one is connected to anything.  I cant find any
>>loose wires to attach to the second terminal.  Should there be?  Or was the
>>temp sensor replaced with the wrong one at some time?
>
>I think so, but it's harmless. It sounds like you have an old-style sending
>unit switch which controls not only your "HOT" light but also a "COLD"
>light, if the car was equipped with one. Old Ch*vies from the early '60's
>use this to operate a green "COLD" light on the dash. You were supposed to
>moderate your driving until the "COLD" light went off to signal that the
>engine was warming up. See if the mystery contact is grounded when the
>engine is cold, then ceases to function as a ground when the engine warms
>up. Try simply plugging your HOT light wire onto it, see if the light
>comes on initially when you start the engine, then goes off after five
>minutes.
>
>Later switches would still show a molded recess on the top where the COLD
>contact used to be, even after that part was discontinued. Our '69 had a
>HOT contact only, with an empty molded inset right next to it. By '72,
>the whole sending unit had been redesigned and no trace of the COLD contact
>remained.
>
>Don't pitch that two-contact switch if you decide to replace it with the
>right one; somebody told me they're hard to find.
>
>Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
>Datalogics, Inc.
>441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
>Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473
>
>
>
OK, thanks... I was thinking along the lines of the vacuum switch switching
between two vacuum sources, which may not be right.  Does anyone know how to
hook this thing up??

Thanks
- --
Dave Paulison
69 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: clark@sh28.dseg.ti.com (Pat Clark 952-3776)
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 17:55:07 -0300
Subject: vac switch

>OK, thanks... I was thinking along the lines of the vacuum switch switching
>between two vacuum sources, which may not be right.  Does anyone know how to
>hook this thing up??

>Thanks
>--
>Dave Paulison
>69 Cutlass Supreme

The switch basicaly "switches" the vacuum source from the carb to the manifold 
and vice versa. I will look at mine and check my shop manual tonight and let youknow which hose goes where tommorrow.



          ___              ___        _________
         /   |            /   |      /         \
        /    |           /    |     |   ___    |
       /     |          /     |     |__|   |   |
      /      |         /      |           /   /   
     /       |        /       |          /   /   
    /   /|   |       /   /|   |         /   /
   /   /_|   |__    /   /_|   |__      /   /
  |             |  |             |    /   /
  |______     __|  |______     __|   /   /_____
         |   |            |   |     |          |      Pat Clark
         |___|            |___|     |__________|       69 442
						      400/400

   "Just your average 300+hp garage hogging, gas sucking, money pit"

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <jlabay@Phoenix.kent.edu>
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 17:57:29 -0300
Subject: Re: TH200C and 200-4R

Yes, the tranny you are talking about bolted to your Buick V6 is the 
TH-200-C. My Z/28 has it and it is one of the weakest tranny's. Early 
Z/28's usually chew them up at a fast rate because they can't handle the 
torque. The 200R4 on the other hand gets a bad rap as being weak, but if 
it can handle all the torque the Buick GN's put out it has to be tough. 

Jason Labay                                            jlabay@phoenix.kent.edu
Akron, Ohio                                                                   
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25 H/OCA#0278A                                              
1988 Camaro Z/28 CFI 305                                                      

On Tue, 9 Apr 1996, Shawn M. Twomey wrote:

> > 
> > Isn't that 3sp the TH200C, or something like that?  A well-built 200R4, as
> > long as you don't go too far over 300, should be fine.  You'll want a stall
> > converter like a 442s (GNs?) or similar.
> 
> >From the numbers, I'd assume the 200C and the 200R4 are similar trannys.  Are
> >the bolt patterns the same then?  What about the bolt patterns for a 307/350/
> >403.  Are they gonna be the same?
> 
> My '84 Gutlass has the Buick V6 and 3sp auto, I THINK I saw it referred to
> as the TH200C.  Anyway the 200-4R is a 4sp, so they're different.
> 
> Bolt patterns for any Buick, Olds, & Pontiac motor are the same, Chevys are
> different.  The 200-4R is what you want for an Olds, the 700-R4 has a Chevy
> bolt pattern.
> 
> __________________________________________________________________________
> Shawn M. Twomey     |  "No!  Try NOT!  Do, or do not.  There is no try."
> stwom@ctp.com       |  -Yoda
> __________________________________________________________________________
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

From: "Dink" <heinle@jake.udayton.edu>
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 20:03:21 -0300
Subject: Re: 403 c.i. Engine

> has anyone got a need for a GMC 305 V6?
                                                            ^^^^^^^^^
you mean   V8??

>or know of how to make it scream?
put it in a F*rd! ;), or get beat by an Olds!

Dink
80 Delta 88 Royale 'many mods'

{
Dink           Dayton, Ohio
http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
Computer Information Systems Major @ UD
}

------------------------------

From: z28cfi@gwis.com (Jason P. Labay)
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 19:32:51 -0300
Subject: 

subscribe oldsmobile

------------------------------

From: jsmith@radware.net (James Smith)
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 19:20:45 -0300
Subject: RE: Misc. Stuffs

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB2639.3B49BC20
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The sender was probably switched or it could be still factory. On one =
terminal when the water get to a set temp. The terminal goes to ground =
and turns on the light. The other is a variable to ground for a gauge. =
It starts with very high resistance to ground and then as the water =
worms up it has less resistance to ground directly proportional to the =
temp. This is for the temp. gauge which is just a ohm meter with gas =
tank markings instead of numbers.
- ----------
From: 	David Paulison[SMTP:dpauliso@metrolink.net]
Sent: 	Tuesday, April 09, 1996 2:35 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Re: Misc. Stuffs



One more thing...the water temp sensor (for the dummy light in the dash) =
has
two terminals on it, but only one is connected to anything.  I cant find =
any
loose wires to attach to the second terminal.  Should there be?  Or was =
the
temp sensor replaced with the wrong one at some time?

Thanks in advance   =20
=20
- --
Dave Paulison
69 Cutlass Supreme




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------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 11:04:56 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Misc. Stuffs 

     Actually, shouldn't both functions be performed by the same switch?  
     Really the switch is just switching between two different sources of 
     vacuum, but one of those sources could be zero vacuum, or the 
     atmosphere just as easily as ported vacuum.  So really, all it is is a 
     pneumatic switch controlled by the temperature of the engine.
     
     Now, for how it's hooked (hosed?) up you'll have to check a service 
     manual.  Later cars have the emissions-hose routing on the sticker on 
     top of the radiator.
     
     That vacuum switch is also used for EGR.  You don't want EGR when the 
     engine is cold.  If your car had EGR that was disconnected, that may 
     be what it's for too.  EGR is not necessarily a "Bad Thing" and you 
     might want to hook it back up.
     
     I replaced the carb on my fiance's olds 350 last night and the vacuum 
     advance was plugged directly into the carb, the port was on the front, 
     near the top, passenger side.  The vacuum routing in this engine may 
     also be fubar'd, it was a transplant and they didn't bring any of the 
     vacuum canister system over or hook up the EGR.  No cat either, and it 
     passed emissions last year with flying colors (but it is a truck, so I 
     suspect the qualifications are a bit more leniant), but of course it 
     didn't pass this year.  Thus the carb replacement (choke was all 
     screwed up anyways, so mightaswell. . .).

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Misc. Stuffs
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    4/9/96 1:05 PM

>>Yes, I have seen that vacuum switch up there at the front of the intake, 
>>screwed into the coolant passage.  It's completely disconnected, though, and 
>>I have no idea how to hook it up correctly.
>
>This is a wild-assed guess so take it as such, but anyway: If the thing 
>is going to switch vacuum on and off based on temperature, which I assume 
>is what it does, if it's going to be able to turn vacuum off, it has to 
>not only close the connection between the vacuum source and whatever it 
>operates, but also purge the downline segment (e.g. from the valve to 
>the distributor vacuum advance)
>
>Yes, it could function to switch between two vacuum sources, too. 
>
OK, thanks... I was thinking along the lines of the vacuum switch switching 
between two vacuum sources, which may not be right.  Does anyone know how to 
hook this thing up??

------------------------------

From: Greg Palmer <pg54637.aol>
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 19:40:22 -0300
Subject: mail test

server test

------------------------------

From: z28cfi@gwis.com (Jason P. Labay)
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 19:37:51 -0300
Subject: oops... 

sorry for the bonehead subscribe request to the list, maybe I should read a
little more closely. This is just a note to say that my e mail address has
changed, for anyone that cares....:)

Jason Labay
1975 H/O W-25

------------------------------

From: John Schmich <schmich@AZStarNet.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 20:34:24 -0300
Subject: Re: Misc. Stuffs 

>> >For those interested, I got my '85 442 out to look at the head numbers, and
>> >they are 5As(the older style).  Unless GM changed in the middle of the model
>> >year, its safe to say that the 7As with the different cam weren't around
>> >'till '86.
>
>I'd love to hear from anyone who can mail me, if it's convenient, stuff like:
>-Engine block ID on the shelf behind the water pump
>-Head ID
>-Intake ID, or at least material [AL or cast iron], port size @ head?
>-type of lifter [roller or not]

I look it up on my 86 motor that is out of the car and will give you the scoop.

>>      There is only one problem that needs to be fixed.  It seems that we
>> have way to much pressure (somehow,someway) because we are getting small oil
>> leaks around the oil filter and the rear of the engine.  Enough pressure to
>> shoot oil out the top of the dipstick tube.  My guage dosen't show high oil
>> pressure and we even bought a new guage to test the oil pressure from inside
>> the engine bay.   (And no we did not put 8 quarts of oil in :)
>
>Hmmm... If the gage says the oil pressure is OK, then it must be. Besides,
>excess oil pressure is not going to cause oil to come out of the dipstick tube-
>that sits in the sump area, which is supposed to be at atmoshpheric pressure or
>a tiny bit below, as controlled by the PCV valve... Is the PCV functioning
>properly?
Well, I just bought a new one right before we started it.  I doubt it would
be faulty.  What makes me wonder though is that we asked a mechanic friend
of ours and he told us we might be pushing air into the crankcase, so we
pulled the PCV valve.  I know I didn't put it in backwards but I also wonder
if it makes a difference between an 84 PCV and an 86.  I bought a PCV valve
for my old 86 motor and put it in an 84 valve cover.  Either way, pulling
the PCV valve curred the problem, but I still need it for emmisions control
(I think).

>  The Oil Filter mess sounds like a filter w/ wrong gasket diameter- measure
>the filter's gasket and compare to the size of the pad on the filter mount.
>Also, did you oil the filter gasket, and check for a damaged filter gasket mont
>surface- that AL part can get bumped or bent in the installation process...

The oil filter is the same size in diameter as the stock it is just a lot
shorter.  Right after we found the problem, me and Brodie went to the GM
dealer and bought a stock (metal) gasket for the oil filter adapter.  I
guess the FelPro we got just didn't do the job.  Problem solved.

>
>>      We're wondering if the rear main seal hasn't sealed up yet.
>> Brandon
>
>Did you not use a neoprene rear main seal? I *hate* those rope-type seals...
>-=Chris=-

We had to go with the rope-type and believe me, I didn't want it either.  I
looked all over trying to find a neoprene but they just don't make em for
the 307.  I'm guessing a 350 seal would have worked but I had no proof.

As for the oil leak around the rear of the engine:  We took it to the shop
today and found that it was actually the oil pan gasket.  Don't ask me why
it failed but a small area didn't seal correctly.  We put RTV black around
the area and we hope that will work.  Otherwise, the whole engine might have
to come out again:( :( :(.

>> I noticed when I was test driving that '85 Delta a few weeks back that
>> the 307 was painted black. What a strange color to paint an engine!

I think all the Rear-wheel-drive 307s came black from the factory.  But we
found a 307 out of a late model Toro(?) and it was blue.  It has the
front-wheel-drive oil pan on it.
>
>-P drivetrain (different, uh flexplate?  driveshaft length, etc.)  I agree
on th
>e odds of finding the wrecked H/O.  If you do, let me know! :-)
>
>Funny, there's an 83 H/O here in town, TOTALLY ragged out, rusted beyond
>structurally sound, beat up, etc. I see it, keep meaning to leave a flier,
>acquire it someday for cheap, but hav not done so yet. -Chris-
>
I have one of those in my town too.  Its funny how someone could treat such
a good car so bad.  

Thanks for the info Chris.

Brandon
86 Salon
Brodie
85 Salon

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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #143
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