
oldsmobile-digest          Wednesday, 1 May 1996       Volume 01 : Number 163


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 13:35:15 -0300
Subject: rear disc brake conversion

At 12:57 AM 4/30/96 -0300, you wrote:

>anyone know of a rear wheel disc brake conversion for the GM 10 bolt rear?
>bravada needs it
>                         Zack


Yes, ECI and Master Power both have rear disc conversion kits for 8 and 9 inch
Ford rears, 10 and 12 bolt GM rears, and 55-64 C*evy rears.  Both companies
kits use Corvette rotors and aluminum calipers.  The GM kits fit only with
the stock C-clips in place; C-clip eliminators won't clear.  In most cases
the axle flanges must be machined down a bit to clear the rotor.

Engineered Components, Inc.
P.O. Box 841
Vernon, CT 06066
203-872-7046

Master Power Brakes
Lakeside Park
43 Rolling Hills Rd.
Mooresville, NC 28115
704-664-8866

You could also try Wilwood.

Wilwood
461 Calle San Pablo
Camarillo, CA 93012
805-388-1188

Check out Hot Rod Magazine, March 1994, pp 42-45 for more info front & rear
brake conversion kits.

- --
Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 17:04:32 -0300
Subject: Re: Online Meetings

Can't make it this week, I'll be out of town (PA, Wedding).
The Toro wants in but all she can say is "Vvrroom, vvrroom"
Will try for next week.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: clark@sh28.dseg.ti.com (Pat Clark 952-3776)
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 15:01:56 -0300
Subject: Re: 66 toro

> On another note, I was at a irrigation parts house this morning, and one
> of the employees is selling his '69 442 for $500.  Didn't ask any
> questions about it, but it seems reasonable.
> 
> 
> 
> Cary Yamamoto                                 University of NV, Reno



You make me sick! ;>)


          ___              ___        _________
         /   |            /   |      /         \
        /    |           /    |     |   ___    |
       /     |          /     |     |__|   |   |
      /      |         /      |           /   /   
     /       |        /       |          /   /   
    /   /|   |       /   /|   |         /   /
   /   /_|   |__    /   /_|   |__      /   /
  |             |  |             |    /   /
  |______     __|  |______     __|   /   /_____
         |   |            |   |     |          |      Pat Clark
         |___|            |___|     |__________|       69 442
						      400/400

   "Just your average 300+hp garage hogging, gas sucking, money pit"

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 15:08:11 -0300
Subject: Re: 66 toro

On Tue, 30 Apr 1996, Cary Yamamoto wrote:
> On another note, I was at a irrigation parts house this morning, and one
> of the employees is selling his '69 442 for $500.  Didn't ask any
> questions about it, but it seems reasonable.

It actually sounds unbelieveable. Are you sure this is (a) a 442, (b) his 
to sell, (c) a running, driveable car and not either a hulk or a 
miniature model?

$500 for a Nevada 442 in running condition sounds like a screamin' deal 
under any circumstances.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 15:13:55 -0300
Subject: OCA Executive Intrigue

Got the latest JWO and noted with interest that there are 2 separate 
pieces about the "allegations" made by the lady running against Mr. 
DeNovi for OCA president. Apparently she feels that the executive of OCA 
has been unresponsive to rank-and-file needs or requests, and that the 
salary increase the Pres and 2 others received was unjustified.

While I don't know how appropo it is to use the club magazine to defend 
an incumbent versus a rival, her candidacy certainly appears to have 
stirred some things up. Does anyone have any background on all of this, 
and can someone tell me how all of this came to be? Certainly sounds kind 
of messy.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 15:23:55 -0300
Subject: Re: Hmmmm...

On Tue, 30 Apr 1996, Chris Brown Witt wrote:
> Went to a seminar on diesel injector droplet analysis today. Older gentleman
> next to me struck up a conversation... turns out he used to work for Olds,
> helped develop the Rocket engine and the Jetfire Turbo system. 

Man, I hope you told him all about us here... it would be neat to have a 
development engineer on the list! Maybe he knows why the 403 has those 
windowed webs.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: urbanch@magi.com (Chris Urban)
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 15:58:05 -0300
Subject: Re: Head swapping: Toro C's onto SX, its E's on the Toro? 

The difference between stock head HP numbers is minimal. C and E can be
ported with equal results.


>Of the two 455's I have, the one in my '70 SX will be a more radical street
>motor, and the other in my '69 Toro will be a smooth-cruiser type. Popular
>opinion around here has it that the C's are the ultimate in obtainable bb
>heads (discounting D's and F's) for flow. Would it be worth my while, then,
>to do a basic rebuild on my E's with Toro-sized 2.07" intakes, and then swap
>them onto my Toro so I can port, shave and cut down the guides on its C's for
>a, say, 450hp 455 in my SX?
>
>Basically, since I'll be tricking out the heads for the SX anyway, and thus
>pure stock performance becomes less significant, would it make much of a
>difference starting out with its E's rather than C's? And to Chris W., who
>has actually measured the ports in these things, is the reputation of the C
>head a myth (oops, a question in bad taste when you're on your way up to a
>swap meet with a dozen C heads under your arms for sale...) or is it truly
>justified?
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 16:16:51 -0300
Subject: Re: OCA Executive Intrigue 

At 03:13 PM 4/30/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Got the latest JWO and noted with interest that there are 2 separate 
>pieces about the "allegations" made by the lady running against Mr. 
>DeNovi for OCA president. Apparently she feels that the executive of OCA 
>has been unresponsive to rank-and-file needs or requests, and that the 
>salary increase the Pres and 2 others received was unjustified.
>
>While I don't know how appropo it is to use the club magazine to defend 
>an incumbent versus a rival, her candidacy certainly appears to have 
>stirred some things up. Does anyone have any background on all of this, 
>and can someone tell me how all of this came to be? Certainly sounds kind 
>of messy.
>
>Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada


I certainly don't know all the details, but from what I understand, the
person running against Mr. DeNovi, a woman named Karlyn Kompel, who has
been (I believe) the president of the Long Island Chapter and a regional
zone director, has been a long-time critic of Mr. DeNovi.  What appears
to have brought this to a head is the issue of whether or not the
1997 Oldsmobile Nationals, being held in Lansing that year to commemorate
the 100th anniversary of Oldsmobile, will NOT feature a judged show.

The chapter I belong to, the Mid-Ohio Chapter, sent a letter to Mr. DeNovi
back in January expressing our hope that perhaps a judged show could
be arranged and that we as a chapter would be willing to help out in 
any way we could.  We sent copies of that letter to all of the other
chapters and so forth, and the response it garnered was surprising.

Most were supportive of Mr. DeNovi and his position that the 1997 event
is not an OCA sponsored function, but rather we are guests of the
organizing committe along with the NAOC and the Curved Dash club.  Therefore
we had no say about the inclusion of judging, and we shouldn't make an
issue of it.  There'll always be judging again at the 1998 show.

Ms. Kompel took exception to all of this, and in a rather vitriolic
letter to Mr. DeNovi (which all chapters received copies of), rebutted
every one of his points.  (Mr. DeNovi had sent a 10-point letter giving
each of 10 reasons why there would/could be no judging.)

I haven't seen the JWO issue to which you refer (maybe it's in my
mailbox at home as I write this), but it's probably important
that the members be aware of what's going on since these two
individuals (DeNovi and Kompel) are running for OCA President.

I presume that Mr. DeNovi, who has been OCA president for quite
a number of years, would very much like to be the president
during the time of the 1997 Nationals as sort of a swan song to
his tenure as president.

************************************************
Daniel A. Gulino
Associate Professor and Graduate Chairman
Department of Chemical Engineering
Ohio University
Athens, Ohio  45701-2979
(614) 593-1495
(614) 593-0873 (fax)
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://www.ent.ohiou.edu/che/faculty/gulino.html
************************************************

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 11:16:03 -0300
Subject: Re: Wanted: oilpan for '69 455

Mike Shokouhi wrote:
> 
> Does anyone have a nice oilpan for a '69 455, it's for a H/O.  The
> current one has the usual dings and it won't look right after the
> cars restored.
> 
> Thnx,
> 
> Mike

Mike:

Believe it or not, you can just body work that oil pan if it it isn't a 
leak problem.  I have worked & bondoed those things on show cars many 
times.  Use good stuff and heat won't be any problem but do properly 
prepare the metal.

Bill

------------------------------

From: Mark Matthews <matthews@ismi.net> 
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 16:12:51 -0300
Subject: [none]

unsubscribe oldsmobile

------------------------------

From: Michael Blennerhassett <blenner@fhs.csu.McMaster.CA>
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 16:36:15 -0300
Subject: 66 Toronado pitman arm

Can anyone help with NOS or replacement for this "66 only" part??
I replaced mine with a used one from California about a year ago, and now 
that one is gone...

Interestingly, my original and the one from Calif. 
are not the same in appearance, although identical in critical 
dimensions. One has a casting #? part #? of 5699212, while the heavier 
one has the no. 7805 816.  Any info from this?

Here, I find that TRW lists a 67-76 pitman arm at $140, 
BUT will it fit? No-one knows, few care.

Anyone with experience or information about how to replace - even 
rebuild? - this troublesome part?  Any how are we on idler arms?  I'll 
bet that's next....

Thanks for looking at this, and your help might keep my car on the road 
(in a straight line)


Michael Blennerhassett
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 17:43:10 -0300
Subject: Re: 66 Toronado pitman arm 

Mike,

Pitman arms are the same on Toros from 66-78. They should not show any signs
of excessive wear unless the wheel is turned alot while standing still, or
turned against a curb while parking. I have only had to replace one in the
many years I have been driving them, and it was weak when I bought the car.
So, I'm not real sure why this problem is re-occuring for you.

Anyway, they are available (NOS possible too, at older parts houses or bigger
Olds dealers....if your lucky)

Otherwise, Oldsmobile U.S.A. Parts Supply Ltd. has them:
 
S6.859A   Pitman Arm  66-78 Toro............................$70.58*
S6.895Y   Idler ARm     66-78 Toro............................$73.58*

*1995 Catalog price

Get their catalog, its very good. I have ordered several times from them with
no problems.

Oldsmobile U S A
Parts Supply Limited
8505L Euclid Ave.
Manassas, VA  22111

703-335-1935
703335-0904 fax

E-mail me if you have any further problems or questions:

Greg Kalkhoff  (Typhoid Toro)

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 12:48:54 -0300
Subject: Re: 66 Toronado pitman arm

Michael Blennerhassett wrote:
> 
> Can anyone help with NOS or replacement for this "66 only" part??
> I replaced mine with a used one from California about a year ago, and now
> that one is gone...
> 
> Interestingly, my original and the one from Calif.
> are not the same in appearance, although identical in critical
> dimensions. One has a casting #? part #? of 5699212, while the heavier
> one has the no. 7805 816.  Any info from this?
> 
> Here, I find that TRW lists a 67-76 pitman arm at $140,
> BUT will it fit? No-one knows, few care.
> 
> Anyone with experience or information about how to replace - even
> rebuild? - this troublesome part?  Any how are we on idler arms?  I'll
> bet that's next....
> 
> Thanks for looking at this, and your help might keep my car on the road
> (in a straight line)
> 
> Michael Blennerhassett
> Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

Mike;

I checked with the TRW  people in Decatur, AL and they do list 67-72 but 
not 66.  They want $68 for theirs but I haven't found about the fit.  I 
have a 67 and wonder why the 66 could be a different fit.

Bill

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey King <jking@exame2.dseg.ti.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 20:24:21 -0300
Subject: Selling the Cutlass

>Mike,
>
>Sorry to hear of your decision to sell the Cutlass.  Been there, done
>that, and understand what a bummer it is.  I remember parting with my
>first Toro.
>

About 7 years ago (give or take), I had a '69 Cutlass 'S'
convertible.  Gold, with (I think) non-correct but lovely
Olds factory mags (chromed spokes, black background, Olds
centerhub) that was my pride and joy.  After having a couple
of kids, it was obvious that a ragtop was not really the car
of choice.  It was a 2-dr, natrually, and my (now ex) wife 
couldn't manage the kids, carseats, etc. with the top up. 
With the top down, the kids got windburned (it's hot here in
Texas), and the wife b*tched about her hair getting messed up.
I did the ultimate foul-up.  I bought a very nice, low mileage,
cherry condition '61 Super 88 4-Door Hardtop and sold my beloved
convertible.  Good family car.  No one complained.  But, now that 
I'm divorced, the wife and kiddos are gone, I'm stuck DRIVING MY 
"FATHER'S OLDSMOBILE" instead of a good 'batcholer type' Cutlass 
convertible.

I guess my lesson is this... DON'T SELL THE CUTLASS!!  Sell the
family car, sell the house, sell the wife and kids into slavery
if you have to.  Just don't sell the Cutlass!!!

By the way, if anyone on here knows of a guy who traveled from 
Canada to Texas about 7 or 8 years ago, and returned with a gold 
'69 Cutlass ragtop and tales of the great deal he got, let me know.  
I'd like to keep tabs on that car if possible.

Jeff  "Cutlassless in Texas"
- -- 
================================================================
Jeffrey W. King(N5PNU) Internet: -----> jking@exame2.dseg.ti.com
Route 1, Box 290       Internet/packet:   n5pnu@dfwgate.ampr.org
Krum, TX. 76249        Packet:    N5PNU @ N5AUX.#DFW.TX.USA.NOAM
817-482-3446 (home)    214-597-1021 (pager)
214-956-6714 (work)    If none of the above works:    HEY YOU!!!
================================================================
 1961 Olds Super 88 Holiday Sedan  http://www.442.com/king.html
================================================================

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 17:36:15 -0300
Subject: How to find your long-lost car (Was Re: Selling the Cutlass) 

>By the way, if anyone on here knows of a guy who traveled from 
>Canada to Texas about 7 or 8 years ago, and returned with a gold 
>'69 Cutlass ragtop and tales of the great deal he got, let me know.  
>I'd like to keep tabs on that car if possible.

I hate to leave crucial details out of the following but I wanted to
follow up with the basics now while we're on the subject.

When I bought my Bonneville last month I made use of a fax service
from a company which has access to DMV records of car registration
from (presumably) every state in the U.S. The idea is that you call
them with the VIN of the car in question, and they'll dig out (while
you wait on the line) the basic details of where it's been sold in
the past, mileage, whether it was leased or purchased, that sort of
thing. It does _not_ name the owner, though it did identify (by code
number of some sort) the dealer who had originally sold my car, and
presumably would do so for each transaction not involving a private
seller. Not certain of that. Salvage Title assignments would also
appear.

In any event, even though it's primarily for determining the background
of a particular car you're interested in buying, if you have the VIN of 
your long-lost Cutlass and (I assume) can at least make a guess as to 
which state it's in (i.e. Texas, not Disrepair :-) you might be able to 
catch up to it, or at least see if it's likely still on the road. The 
outfit I called dinged my Visa account for $20, gave me my answers over 
the phone and followed up with a fax a few minutes later which I could 
wave under the nose of the dealer for maximum effect. Given the price 
of the car itself, the $20 was well worth it to verify that it was a 
1-owner car, where it came from, who sold it originally and when.

I've seen ads from at least one other company advertising the same service,
so the outfit I dealt with is not unique. If there's any interest, I can
dig their fax out of my files this evening and post the details tomorrow.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 18:47:02 -0300
Subject: Re: Convertible_top 

In a message dated 96-04-30 03:59:21 EDT, you write:

>I know the material. Mine too has the same switch as in Vistacruisers but 
>I've always been the second guy after it in any VCs that I've seen in the 
>Pik-Ur-Own yards. 

Hey, guess what I saved out of that old '72 Vista Cruiser...

Well, the whole dashboard, but *in* it there is the rear window switch, if
you're interested.

------------------------------

From: teubelpg@mail.hanks.com
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 20:45:39 -0300
Subject: Re: How to find your long-lost car (Was Re: Selling the Cutl 

     YES!  I would like to have that number!
     
     -Pete
     '51 98


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: How to find your long-lost car (Was Re: Selling the Cutlass)
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at SMTP
Date:    4/30/96 5:53 PM


>By the way, if anyone on here knows of a guy who traveled from 
>Canada to Texas about 7 or 8 years ago, and returned with a gold 
>'69 Cutlass ragtop and tales of the great deal he got, let me know.  
>I'd like to keep tabs on that car if possible.
     
I hate to leave crucial details out of the following but I wanted to 
follow up with the basics now while we're on the subject.
     
When I bought my Bonneville last month I made use of a fax service 
from a company which has access to DMV records of car registration 
from (presumably) every state in the U.S. The idea is that you call 
them with the VIN of the car in question, and they'll dig out (while 
you wait on the line) the basic details of where it's been sold in 
the past, mileage, whether it was leased or purchased, that sort of 
thing. It does _not_ name the owner, though it did identify (by code 
number of some sort) the dealer who had originally sold my car, and 
presumably would do so for each transaction not involving a private 
seller. Not certain of that. Salvage Title assignments would also 
appear.
     
In any event, even though it's primarily for determining the background 
of a particular car you're interested in buying, if you have the VIN of 
your long-lost Cutlass and (I assume) can at least make a guess as to 
which state it's in (i.e. Texas, not Disrepair :-) you might be able to 
catch up to it, or at least see if it's likely still on the road. The 
outfit I called dinged my Visa account for $20, gave me my answers over 
the phone and followed up with a fax a few minutes later which I could 
wave under the nose of the dealer for maximum effect. Given the price of 
the car itself, the $20 was well worth it to verify that it was a 
1-owner car, where it came from, who sold it originally and when.
     
I've seen ads from at least one other company advertising the same service, 
so the outfit I dealt with is not unique. If there's any interest, I can 
dig their fax out of my files this evening and post the details tomorrow.
     
Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431 
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com 
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473
     
     

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 19:55:05 -0300
Subject: Re: How to find your long-lost car (Was Re: Selling the Cutl

>I've seen ads from at least one other company advertising the same service, 
>so the outfit I dealt with is not unique. If there's any interest, I can 
>dig their fax out of my files this evening and post the details tomorrow.
>     
>Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431 
>Datalogics, Inc.
>441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com 
>Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473
>     
>
Yes, please give up some more info!!
- --
Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Jeff Hunter <jchunter@xcelco.on.ca>
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 20:03:29 -0300
Subject: Re: How to find your long-lost car (Was Re: Selling the Cutlass) 

At 05:36 PM 4/30/96 -0300, you wrote:

>When I bought my Bonneville last month I made use of a fax service
>from a company which has access to DMV records of car registration
>from (presumably) every state in the U.S. The idea is that you call
>them with the VIN of the car in question, and they'll dig out (while
>you wait on the line) the basic details of where it's been sold in
>the past, mileage, whether it was leased or purchased, that sort of
>thing. It does _not_ name the owner, though it did identify (by code
>number of some sort) the dealer who had originally sold my car, and
>presumably would do so for each transaction not involving a private
>seller. 

Here in Ontario Canada, any used car purchaser must buy a kit containing
information about the car. (costs something like 50 bucks from out lovely
government).  But anyways, it lists all previous owners, plus some other
info. Fairly handy service, for old car buffs, but a pain in the wallet for
others.

Jeff Hunter 

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 19:56:37 -0300
Subject: Carb number decoding

Does anyone know how to decode the numbers on Rochester Quadrajet carbs?
I found a chart in Year One's catalog, and did it, but I really don't think
it's correct.  My Olds was bought by father-in-law in 1971.  He was the
second owner, and the car had 14,000 miles on it when he bought.  He kept
_EVERY_ receipt for any work he ever had done to the car.  While the first
two years of the cars life is unaccounted for, I doubt the carb was replaced
during that time.  And according the the repair/maintenance receipts I got
from my father-in-law, it was never replaced while he had it; he also
confirmed this himself.  The number on my carb is 7028273 XX.  According to
Year One's chart, a 170 or 70 at the beginning signifies a Rochester
product.  No problem there.  The next two digits are the year
identification.   28 signified series 20, used from 1962-1969.  OK
there...the 8, according to the chart is the year, 1968.  My car is a 1969.
I can see that being possible, if the car was made at the beginning of the
69 model year, and got a 1968 carb.  The next number, the 2, signifies a
49-state model (a 5 would mean a California approved unit).  The next
number, the seven, is for make identification.  Year One says 0-2 is C*evy,
3 is Cadillac, 4 is Buick, 5 is Oldsmobile, and 6 and 7 are Pontiac.  The
last number identifies transmission type, even #'s are automatic, odd #'s
are manual. 
Their chart does state "Because these were assembly line cars and not hand
built, it is possible to have an even number carburetor appear on a manual
transmission car, and vice versa."  I can accept that.

According to my carb number and Year One's chart, my carb is a Rochester,
series 20, 1968 model, 49 state approved, Pontiac manual transmission unit.
How accurate is year one's chart?  For that matter, how accurate are the
carb numbers?  I'm not really concerned about the "right" carb or anything,
I'm more curious than anything...

Thanks!
- --
Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Jeff Hunter <jchunter@xcelco.on.ca>
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 20:03:31 -0300
Subject: Re: Selling the Cutlass 

At 08:24 PM 4/30/96 -0300, you wrote:
>>Mike,
>>
>>Sorry to hear of your decision to sell the Cutlass.  Been there, done
>>that, and understand what a bummer it is.  I remember parting with my
>>first Toro.
>>
>
>About 7 years ago (give or take), I had a '69 Cutlass 'S'
>convertible.  Gold, with (I think) non-correct but lovely
>Olds factory mags (chromed spokes, black background, Olds
>centerhub) that was my pride and joy.  After having a couple
>of kids, it was obvious that a ragtop was not really the car
>of choice.  It was a 2-dr, natrually, and my (now ex) wife 
>couldn't manage the kids, carseats, etc. with the top up. 
>With the top down, the kids got windburned (it's hot here in
>Texas), and the wife b*tched about her hair getting messed up.
>I did the ultimate foul-up.  I bought a very nice, low mileage,
>cherry condition '61 Super 88 4-Door Hardtop and sold my beloved
>convertible.  Good family car.  No one complained.  But, now that 
>I'm divorced, the wife and kiddos are gone, I'm stuck DRIVING MY 
>"FATHER'S OLDSMOBILE" instead of a good 'batcholer type' Cutlass 
>convertible.
>
>I guess my lesson is this... DON'T SELL THE CUTLASS!!  Sell the
>family car, sell the house, sell the wife and kids into slavery
>if you have to.  Just don't sell the Cutlass!!!
>
>By the way, if anyone on here knows of a guy who traveled from 
>Canada to Texas about 7 or 8 years ago, and returned with a gold 
>'69 Cutlass ragtop and tales of the great deal he got, let me know.  
>I'd like to keep tabs on that car if possible.
>
>Jeff  "Cutlassless in Texas"
>-- 
>================================================================
>Jeffrey W. King(N5PNU) Internet: -----> jking@exame2.dseg.ti.com
>Route 1, Box 290       Internet/packet:   n5pnu@dfwgate.ampr.org
>Krum, TX. 76249        Packet:    N5PNU @ N5AUX.#DFW.TX.USA.NOAM
>817-482-3446 (home)    214-597-1021 (pager)
>214-956-6714 (work)    If none of the above works:    HEY YOU!!!
>================================================================
> 1961 Olds Super 88 Holiday Sedan  http://www.442.com/king.html
>================================================================
>
>
>

Jeff----

Ever thought about writing a country song about your life story :)
Sounds like it would make a good one!

Jeff Hunter
jchunter@xcelco.on.ca

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 20:30:53 -0300
Subject: Toro tranny

Hey all you Toro-heads out there...I don't really know much about 'em or if
this will even really help any of y'all (that's Florida speak...), but I've
been noticing from some of the discussions here that the tranny's difficult
to find/repair.  Well, I was flippin' through Kanter Auto Products catalog,
and they offer a rebuild kit with all the seals, clutch plates, and
transmission and convertor bushings, etc., for $265.  Don't know if a kits
are hard to find, or even if that's a good price for one (it seems a lot of
Kanter's stuff is high priced), just thought I might try to inform the masses!  

Kanter's Web Page -- http://www.kanter.com 

- --
Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Bob Valentine <ravalent@liii.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 20:58:27 -0300
Subject: Re: Medieval Engine Design (was Re: IT'S ALIVE!!! (but hey! who's stepping on the br

On Tue, 30 Apr 1996 Bob0Barry@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 96-04-30 01:20:22 EDT, you write:

> With no confirmed sightings of solid-web 403's, one just has to wonder
> whether some observer mistook a 400 Pontiac for an Olds 403, and started this
> nasty rumor that has us 403 owners reaching to pick up the phone whenever we
> see a 403-powered 1977 *anything*!

    I'll verify a sighting.   I worked in a salvage yard a few years ago, 
and I pulled a 403 from a (formerly 350 Diesel) Delta 88.   I was going 
to rebuild the motor, but I decided that it was a little to far gone 
(the rings were in the oil pan) to rebuild and took a clean 350 instead.  

   Unfortunatly, I didn't know what it was at the time...

   YES it was a 403 (stamped on the side), and YES it did have solid webs.

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                    --> ravalent@liii.com  <--

------------------------------

From: Doug McClanahan <mcclan@wsdot.wa.gov>
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 21:08:18 -0300
Subject: 442's for sale

There are two 442's for sale in Buckley Washington.  One is a 65 and the 
other is a '67.  If you are interested, inquire at mcclan@wsdot.wa.gov 
and I will tell ya' more.

Doug

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 22:43:01 -0300
Subject: Re: Toro tranny 

Dave,

Thanks for the info on the TH425. We appreiciate the cross-talk. Those
rebuilding kits are pretty much all over though. That same tranny was used in
Toros from 66-78. I assume in Eldos too. Not to mention the GMC FWD Motor
Homes. Yes, that kit does seem a bit pricey, but it may also contain about
50% more of the parts really needed to fix the problem you might have.

IMHO, most Toros that need that kind of service were used to pull heavy loads
during its life and/or abused somewhere along the line.

The tranny isn't all that bad to work on, its just getting that bear outta
there in order to work on!

Greg Kalkhoff 

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 22:54:50 -0300
Subject: Re: Carb number decoding 

Dave,

Very interesting! I knew those numbers meant something as I had a "decoding"
list somewhere, but missplaced it years ago! Hmmmm. Where can I get a more
definative list?

According to your decoding theory....Gregg Ludlams Carb..#7027131 (for his 67
Toronado?) came off a Cadillac! It's possible, I suppose, they used an
interchangable carb between Olds and Caddy that year, especially since that
was the first year the Eldo was FWD.

Next time I get to the shop, I will check that box of old carbs full of bird
dodo!

Greg Kalkhoff

------------------------------

From: SG Hartfelder <stanh@compusmart.ab.ca>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 00:16:29 -0300
Subject: Re: Road Trip 

How about that big city of Moncton, eh?  Champlain Mall, Crystal Place,
Magnetic Hill and the Hopewell Rocks.  Actually, I get out to Moncton, NB
about once every 6-8 weeks on business.  For me its a little more than a
drive.  It's 12 hours from the Edmonton, AB airport to Moncton's airport.
Usually, I have a stop over in Halifax.  Nice place but I wouldn't wanna
live there.



At 07:16 PM 96/04/26 -0300, you wrote:
>
>Just back from a day-long business trip to Moncton, New Brunswick, about 
>200 miles west of here. Couldn't take the Olds as I had my boss and our 
>lawyer with me so I got a rental for their benefit (had to take an 
>Intrepid; not a bad car for a non-Olds :)  ). 
>
>About halfway there I'm driving along the highway, scanning the territory 
>for old stuff, when I see a dilapidated mobile home with a '70 Nova 
>parked out back. As I pass, what's that hiding behind the trailer? A 
>run-down '68 Cutlass? Parts Car! Almost drove off the road, causing great 
>distress to my passengers. As I'm in the process of apologizing, no more 
>than a half-mile later, what's this? A good-looking (as far as I can tell 
>at 60 mph) '66 Delta 88 2-door! Parked out front, plated, a driver! On 
>the way back, it was there again, but turned around. Someone's driving 
>this one. Looked real pretty from the road... that metallic blue-green 
>that's getting popular again, with a vinyl roof. Neat aluminum panel 
>between the taillights with the eggcrate overlay over the lenses. Hmmm...
>
>I know where I might go this weekend...
>
>Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
>
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________
S.G. Hartfelder         '38 Oldsmobile Street Rod
Edmonton, AB  CANADA    '76 Camaro
stanh@compusmart.ab.ca

"If you lend someone $20 and never see them again...
 it was probably worth it."
____________________________________________________

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 18:38:11 -0300
Subject: Re: Hmmmm...

Chris Brown Witt wrote:
> 
> Went to a seminar on diesel injector droplet analysis today. Older gentleman
> next to me struck up a conversation... turns out he used to work for Olds,
> helped develop the Rocket engine and the Jetfire Turbo system. Gave me a couple
> of reprints of magazine articles.
> 
> Now, I need to schmooze him for job contacts! Networking! Yes!
> 
> --
> Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
> wittchri@pilot.msu.edu


Chris:

I read this and sure would like to get this man's address.  I would like 
to ask him some questions about my Jetfire.  The obvious question is 
"WHY?"

Bill

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 23:43:21 -0300
Subject: Re: Carb number decoding

At 10:54 PM 4/30/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Dave,
>
>Very interesting! I knew those numbers meant something as I had a "decoding"
>list somewhere, but missplaced it years ago! Hmmmm. Where can I get a more
>definative list?
>

Here's how the numbers decode according to Year One's chart:

For a Q-jet #7027131 XX
  
   70  - Product Identification: Rochester 
   27  - Model Year Identification:  27 = 1967
   1  - Identifies 49 state usage or California emissions
 (there is no "1" on Year One's list for this position, only 2 or 5, hmmm)
   3  - Product Identification:  3 = Cadillac
   1  - Transmission Identification: 1 = Manual
   XX  - Letter Designation: Used to identify engine assembly plant or vehicle
                          assembly plant where the carb was shipped.  There
                          are numerous codes, but they do not affect the
                          application. 


70 or 170 - Product Identification: All AC-Rochester products are prefixed
with a 70 or 170

Model year identification (two digits)

15 - 1960   40 - 1970     30 series were used exclusively on A.I.R. (Air
19 - 1961   41 - 1971     Injector Reactor) equipped engines beginning in
20 - 1962   42 - 1972     1966:  
23 - 1963   43 - 1973                               Quick Reference:
24 - 1964   44 - 1974        36 - 1966 A.I.R.     Teen Series   1960-61
25 - 1965   45 - 1975        37 - 1967 A.I.R.     20 Series     1962-69 
26 - 1966   56 - 1976        38 - 1968 A.I.R.     30 Series
27 - 1967   57 - 1977        39 - 1969 A.I.R.         A.I.R.    1966-69
28 - 1968   58 - 1978                             40 Series     1970-75
29 - 1969   59 - 1979                             50 Series     1975-79


Emissions identification (one digit)

2 - 49 state application Q-jet   <----(See! no "1")
5 - California approved Q-jet

Product identification (one digit)

0 - Chevrolet
1 - Chevrolet
2 - Chevrolet
3 - Cadillac
4 - Buick
5 - Olds
6 - Pontiac
7 - Pontiac

Transmission identification (one digit) 

Even numbers 0-2-4-6-8 signifies automatic transmission
Odd numbers 1-3-5-9 signifies manual transmission

Because these were assembly line cars and not hand built, it is possible to
have an even number carb appear on a manual transmission car and vice versa.

This chart can be found in Year One's catalog in the "Fuel" section.
Thought I should include this, at the bottom of the page it says:

"Reprinted with permission from:
 Muscle Car Review
 P.O. Box 496
 Lakeland, FL 33807
 (815) 734-6026"

Don't know how accurate this is, s'pose you could contact Muscle Car Review 
and ask.  It decodes my carb (69 Cutlass, automatic trans) for a 68 Pontiac
manual trans (#7028273).  Not that I really care, just kinda wierd...
- --
Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 00:03:08 -0300
Subject: Re: Toro tranny 

In a message dated 96-04-30 19:45:10 EDT, you write:

>Hey all you Toro-heads out there...I don't really know much about 'em or if
>this will even really help any of y'all (that's Florida speak...), but I've
>been noticing from some of the discussions here that the tranny's difficult
>to find/repair.  Well, I was flippin' through Kanter Auto Products catalog,
>and they offer a rebuild kit with all the seals, clutch plates, and
>transmission and convertor bushings, etc., for $265.  Don't know if a kits
>are hard to find, or even if that's a good price for one (it seems a lot of
>Kanter's stuff is high priced), just thought I might try to inform the
>masses!  

I haven't compared the prices on rebuild kits on TH425's (and never to!), but
I just compared their prices on a complete brake overhaul kit with a parts
store and with Fusick's. The parts store was cheaper for the shoes, but $15
more on *each* wheel cylinder. I can get an entire kit with complete wheel
cylinders for $185; actually, $175 since they have a $10 coupon in the
catalog they just sent me when I requested one from their web page. The
cylinders alone would have run me $140 through the local auto parts store, so
I figure I'm making out (they didn't even *carry* the hoses!). Fusick would
have been considerably more.

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 00:29:40 -0300
Subject: Comfortron 

In a message dated 96-04-30 01:07:48 EDT, you write:

> That special heater control valve with 2-3 small vacuum lines coming of it
is critical
>too. 

Amen to that!  Mine went out on my '67 98 -- shut the whole system down after
a few minutes of use (except for De-ice, which bypasses the valve).  I was
ready to sell -- had visions of all kinds of problems.  Even thought about
ripping it out and installing standard AC, but what to do about that temp
sensor on the edge of dash?  I think I was fortunate that it was only the
valve (have it bypassed now).   Except for heater control valve, Comfortron
works flawlessly (pause while I cross my fingers and knock wood at the same
time).  Had more trouble last year with under hood stuff (turned out to be a
receiver/dryer) to the tune of  about $800.  Anyway, looking for a '67 *only*
heater control valve w/Comfortron.  Evidently '66 & '68 are different.
 Fusick's had one for the '67, but it's gone.  BTW, have a '66 Comfortron
information manual if anyone needs info.  Has flow charts to diagnose
different problems -- helped me find the bad valve in the '67.  Also has
wiring diagrams and vacuum hose diagrams.

Paul
(& his Comfortron equipped '67 98 Holiday Coupe)

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 00:29:46 -0300
Subject: Re: Selling the Cutlass 

In a message dated 96-04-30 17:33:36 EDT, you write:

> I'm stuck DRIVING MY 
>"FATHER'S OLDSMOBILE"

Don't go there! ;)

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 00:44:12 -0300
Subject: misc. stuffs

> >I was just wondering what type of people we have on the list?  I mean
> >like
> >1. total computer nerd
> >2. total car nerd
> >3. little of both
> >4. lot of both

Me: 2. I consider computers a tool to be used to communicate, handle info,
etc., and the less Iknow about how they work, the more I like it. Thus, the
Macintosh at home. That is for games, keeping track of car folks, etc. On the
other hand, I read Olds Service Manuals for entertainment and bedside reading.
I was thrilled to find a '66 Accesories manual that showed the complete
tri-carb setup in 2 [!] photos right when I needed it. *The* service manual
dows not even mention it...

> Car-wise, I've always been interested in how things worked, and transferred
> my bicycle wrenching skills (customizing choppers with homemade sissy-bars)

I used to make bastardized bikes, choppers out of 2 sets of forks, even made a
rear-steer bike once [unstable] after I got a welder.

> In high-school, I was classed as a grease-monkey, since I actually worked on
> my car. There were very few of us, since it was a college prep school, so we
> hung out and bs'd about our cars in the lot during lunch. Working on cars was
> more a matter of necessity; I couldn't afford to pay someone to do it, I had
> the interest to do it myself, and nobody else was going to do it for me, so
> if I wanted to drive, I had to do it myself. So I read and wrenched and made
> (make) lots of mistakes, but learned as I went along.

Yeah, in high school, I was driving a hand-me-down 62 Fairlane 'Sport Coupe'
with the 6-banger. OOOh! Would almost chirp the tires. When it died, I got a
'64 Cutlass with the 330-4V engine from a neighbor for $75. What a blast! It
would b-u-r-n the tires- I still have the tires, on a logsplitter... It later
died of overheating due to a leaky radiator and such.

> first journal for cyls 1 & 2- the bearing doesn't pop out with the rod like
> on the other journals, but stays attached since it is partway underneath the
> *other* rod bearing (ick!). The journal itself is noticeably "textured", as a
> result of someone having too much fun in the T/A this motor came out of. Oh
> well, off to the shop to see what they say...

Well, the guy didn't lie to ya, huh?

> the shell is the paint and woodgrain. Stand back and admire the fact that
> what just took me a few weekends, kids down in the Bronx accomplish in a 1/2
> hour (maybe I should hire them out to do this work for me...).

Hey, you, c'mere! you wanna job? See that car? make it a bare hulk in an hour!

> (my wife came along). Finally get back, hook up the battery, check out the
> coil (resistances within spec), and decide to check the points before going
> any further. I've bought a set of feeler gauges and a dwell adjusting tool
> (how have l lived for so long without them?), so that is a snap. Actually, a
> snap, crackle and a pop, since dad (who has been assigned "turn it over"
> duty) hasn't taken the key out of the ignition! Well, at least the primary
> system is functioning. Pump it, crank it, and after a little sputtering and

Yeah, the famous 66 Toro engine [13.56, right, Shawn? He saw the actual time
slip] required only a new stta points to fire up and run...

> backfiring, lo and behold the BEAST IS ALIVE! Well, partially and on life
> support, since it won't idle without the choke working.

Congrats, it feels great, huh?

> which hangs down too far). Pull the pan, and discover that somebody has
> mistakenly replaced the recommended Dextron fluid with what looks like
> cherry-flavored milk. *Carefully* locate a place to install a drain plug,

You didn't replace that did ya? That's the correct color touch-up paint that
Toros *require* in the trans! :) -Chris-

> Does anybody know the correct resistance?

1.65 ohms. -Chris- Service Manuals Rule!

> Will having lower or no resistance to the coil with the engine running harm
> the coil or points?
>           I believe this will cause the points to burn out faster, but
>           the car should otherwise run fine.

I concur.

> Just remember you don't want to scramble your yokes. ;-) Yuk! Yuk!
> Bob Handren

Cute!

> > Is it just me or is there some type of sickness going around that makes
> > whoever owns the car believe it is made of gold?

Yeah, must be. Try to buy my cars with mere gold... or for that matter that set
of four NOS 15" SSII wheels! Or the tri-carb setup... -Chris-

> Yeah, I just love the 70s 4-doors and the 70s Toyotas (:o) under
> "Antique and Classic Cars" in the newspaper.

well, you know, if they have an original 12-volt rear end, and the
cow-induction hood [sic], the value rises considerably! :)
- -Chris-

- --cam timing, dimples lined up--
> David Brown                             (312) 702-9157
>     "Oldsmobile - powerful roadsters with big V8s"


I get really paranoid about this anymore. If another helper is on hand, say the
brother that I appointed an expert, I have him verify it, and photograph it
also if possible, so I can go back and ease my mind. Of course, degreeing in
the cam takes care of all that... s'long as it stays assembled afterward.

> Heres whatchya do.   BE CAREFUL THOUGH!  (Extinguish all smoking materials
> and remove sources of flame or spark)  (also have a big pail of water handy
> and dry chem extinguisher ...just in case,,,,,,,,,I have done this dozens of
> times without incident though...be safe just the same)  Pull the brake drum
> and place a large fairly shallow pan underneath. Take and put about a quart
> of gas in a coffee can. Liberally wash EVERTHING, including shoes with a
     ^^^

I guess.... but for $7 for 2 cans of brake clean... why risk it? -Chris-

> OMIGOD!  I've finally fixed it!  I'm so happy I could just...well...I don't
> know!  Thanks to all you folks for the help, info, and suggestions.  It was
> the little wire that connects the breaker plate to ground inside the
> distributor (thanks Andrew Green!)  It was broken right where it was crimped
> to the terminal on the plate.  I overlooked it when I rewired all that stuff
> (boy, do I feel dumb...)  It runs great!  Thanks again, guys!  :^)
> Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme

We share your joy, Dave!

> OVLP means overlap. This is the ammount of time in the rotation sequence that
the intake and the exhaust valve are open at the same time.
> Jim Chermack

In degrees of crankshaft rotation. -Chris-

> >At 10:36 AM 4/27/96 -0300, you wrote:
> >>     402194    82   308/308   .474/.474 350 W-31 OAI
> >>     400084    36   250/264   .400/.400 350 ex. OAI
> >>From what I can tell on this chart, my 69 Cutlass has cam #400084 in
> >it...how much more rump-rumpity is a cam cut like #402194?  Could I get one
> >similar to it today?
>
> Unless you have a stick transmission and ALOT of rear gear in the car don't ev
en attempt to put that cam in your 350. YOU WILL REGRET IT!
> Jim Chermack

It's pretty rowdy... If you have a computer controlled car I'd avoid it, but if
an old carb'd car like mine, go for it. -Chris-

> From: "Shawn M. Twomey" <stwom@ctp.com>
> Subject: Meeting Chris W., etc.
>
> Well, living in Lansing has its priveleges, as I was able to meet our
> resident Rocket Scientist Chris Witt Sunday night, and yes he is definitely
> as cool in person as terminal to terminal.  My dad, little brother, & I
> stopped by to purchase a buildable 350 for my '85 442.

*blushes*

> I'm quite certain it is the shoes dragging, since it is much worse in drive
> than reverse, where the brakes are not as efficient (trailing shoe becomes
> leading, and vice-versa).

Gee, that's funny, my truck's RR brake started dragging a coupla days ago. I
just put new shoes in a week or 4 ago... but not new springs. Time to
dismantle again I guess. -Chris-

> Subject: What's she worth?
> Well,
> It's time to say goodbye to a good friend...
>
> My Cutlass is up For Sale as last years calamities at the house is
> starting to take their toll. After a new roof, furnace and water softener
> soaked 12 grand out of our budget last year (unplanned, I might add), I
> need to liquidate an asset to get the budget back on track.

We share your pain, Mike!

> With no great surprise, my significant other is totally against selling
> the car. She knows what my Oldsmobiles mean to me and how hard I work to

She's a keeper!

- --C/E heads fiasco--
> pure stock performance becomes less significant, would it make much of a
> difference starting out with its E's rather than C's? And to Chris W., who
> has actually measured the ports in these things, is the reputation of the C
> head a myth (oops, a question in bad taste when you're on your way up to a
> swap meet with a dozen C heads under your arms for sale...) or is it truly
> justified?
> From: Bob0Barry@aol.com

If it was me, I'd put the C's on the most worthy car, sell the E's, and buy
some more C's for the other car. But, that's just me. -Chris-

>      That's why I'm always on the lookout for the 1977 403's - they did
> NOT have windowed main webs!

I have two '77 403 blocks on hand. Whatcha give for em? -Chris-

> That's what the rumor was, but as has been mentioned on this list before, all
> '77 403's seen to date have had the window'd mains. Apparently, there was a
> run of 2500 non-windowed 403's that were installed in B-bodied Pontiac
> Wagons. Since the 49-state Pontiacs used the true Poncho 400, these would be
> California-only models, which used the Olds 403 instead of the Pontiac 400 in
> 1977. Actually, Pontiac probably sold about that many B-bodied wagons in
> California in 1977, so that number might not be out of thin air (it's a
> number that comes from J. Mondello, so take that FWIW).

The plot thickens!

> Well, I just had a parts car towed off today (hasta la Vista, Cruiser- doh! I
> just had to say it!), so I don't think anything else will be filling its

somebody had to do it!

> friends about "his" classic car (it's registered in his name to resolve a
> title/registration snag), and when my wife sat behind the wheel, she said
> "Cool interior!" (she liked the barrel speedo, especially with the "135mph"
> peeking out underneath the "0mph" line; kind of a subliminal hint at what the
> car is designed for, even when sitting still)  Note, she has never said
> anything remotely like this about any of the cars we've owned.

Cool, so far so good!

>      In the end everybody looses out.  What makes me mad is the time, effort
> and patience we put into this and now we get to start over again.  What also
> makes me mad is that I suggested this setup in many of my letters and now I
> turn around and can't give you guys and honest answer on how to get
> perfromance out of you computer control cars.  I hope no one has taken my
> persumed (great perfromance setup) and started a project.

That sucks. Have you considered sidestepping the computer & running
old-fashined HEI & carb? -Chris-

> That it is so easy surprises me. The only manual tops I've ever encountered
> were on English cars and they were a @#@$%$#! Then again, considering the
> source....
> Dal

The brother has a manual top from a Camaro [Doh, that C-word!]... 1st I ever
saw...

> Mine is the same as on the Vista Cruiser also, but I've never found one in a
> Pik-Ur-Part yard that I could recover.

Vista-parting man, are you listening! You DID save ALL the wiring, right?
- -Chris-

>     IF ANYONE HAS AN OPERATIONAL CONVERTIBLE TOP MOTOR, I'M INTERESTED.

How interested? I have 1 or 3 on hand. Make it worth my while...
Parting out 2 '68 convertibles soon if they don't sell as a DIY convertible
kit...

> A Ford friend of mine told me a story about how on a 351 Cleveland block,
> which is similar in design to Olds blocks (crap oiling), you can run an
> external oiling line direct from the rear of the oil gallery near the
> pump all the way up to the front into the oil pressure sending port
> (enlarged for the purpose).  This helps even out oiling by counteracting
> some of the bleed off caused by the hydraulic lifters, which can cause an
> occasional lack of pressure all the way at the front of the block.  Can
> this work on an Olds block and what, if any, are the merits?

Verrrrry eeeenterstink! -Chris-

> From: Cary Yamamoto <yamamoto@unr.edu>
> Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 13:17:02 -0300
> Subject: 66 toro
>
> Well I'm off to see the 66 Toro this week.  From talking to the guy, it
> has alot of surface rust from sitting outside. The seats have been redone
> in original brochade, but the door panels have beeen removed and put in
> the cellar.  It is the deluxe model with power everything.  Supposedly it
> runs good, but he said that one boot is ripped.  He bought it from the
> original owner.  It sat at the Olds dealership for 8 years before he got
> it.  A doctor first purchased it and he died while the car was in the
> shop.  There it sat, until his wife peddled it off. He has 2 extras dash
> panels, a new trunk lid, etc.  The guy who owns it is an Olds fanatic.
> He restores them.  He has a '55, 56, and a '57 fiesta wagon.  He's now
> working on a '64 convt, for a client.  $1200 may seem too much.

Lo miles, stored a long time, Olds fan owner.... buy, buy, buy! -Chris-

> of the employees is selling his '69 442 for $500.  Didn't ask any
> questions about it, but it seems reasonable.
> Cary Yamamoto                                 University of NV, Reno

Oooooh, investigate some more, at least get the heads' ID! -Chris-

- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: David1756@aol.com
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 02:12:35 -0300
Subject: Re: Selling the Cutlass 

>I guess my lesson is this... DON'T SELL THE CUTLASS!!  Sell the
>family car, sell the house, sell the wife and kids into slavery
>if you have to.  Just don't sell the Cutlass!!!

I will second that emotion with FEELING.  Have been there and done the same
several times now, always thinking there would b e another Cutlass as good or
better and now prices and quality of cars out there is such that I am without
Cutlass, and more unhappy about it than ever.  Here is the list of "Cutlasses
I have known, loved, sold and kicked myself for letting go of":
(in order of ownership)
68 442 convertible (the best of all of them)
71 442 (3 speed!)
65 Cutlass convertible (buckets and tach and lots of rust)
68 442 post w/ turnpike cruiser option
70 Rallye 350 (stolen and trashed)
69 442 hardtop

So now, since I do have wife and children to cart around, I will look for a
Vista Cruiser for everyday driving and this time maybe keep it forever.

David Wilk
oldsless and looking for a fix

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 02:20:26 -0300
Subject: Joy of Fender,etc. removal...(Lots of rambling)

	I was glad to hear that I wasn't the only one getting dirty this 
weekend working on an Olds!  This last Sunday I decided to take advantage 
of some free time to start pulling the front end off my '60 in 
preparation for my front end rebuild/brake work/paint job.  The brakes on 
this thing are pretty much "PB"...Prayer Brakes... at this point, and 
the front end is...well, a big mess.  It actually feels pretty solid, but 
the grease seals are all pretty crunchy...just one more thing to chock 
up to it's sitting for 13 years, I guess.  So, I figured I mightaswell pull 
the front end of the car off so I would have a clear shot at the control 
arms, ball joints, etc. etc, and since I want to paint the fenders off 
the car anyway, what the heck?  (The hood is already off too).  

	So, I got out the big socket set and went to work on the bumper.  
There are three bolts holding the thing to the frame, so I play inie mini 
miny moe and choose the middle one.  Came off easy enough, not 
even too much rust.  Try number two.  Hmmm.  Needed the cheater pipe to 
get it loose, but still not too much rust.  But whats this?  The bolt 
won't come out of the frame.....  Must be rusted, right?  Hit number 
three with same results as number two.  Hmm.  Weird.  I moved over to the 
other side, and attacked the three bolts with the exact same results as 
the other side.  
	
	But did I notice a pattern?  Nope.  Instead, in my infinite 
brilliance I decided to go and grab my 4lb hammer and show thoes "rusted" 
bolts who was in charge.  I went back to the first side and soaked the 
things in Liquid Wrench, and pounded the first bolt.  Flew right out of 
the frame.  Hmm.  Easy enough.  Picked up the bolt to examine it.  Whats 
this???  Splines????  The thing was actually splined near the head, and 
thoes met with cuts in the frame, presumably to keep it from turning.  I 
can't really think of any other reason for it.  But it was only used on 
the outer bolts, not on that middle one (the first one I removed).  
Weird.  Any body else here ever see something similar?

	I only managed to munch one of the ends of the bolts pounding them 
out (DOH!!) and even then it wasn't too bad (15 minutes with a triangular 
file carved threads deep enough to thread the nut again).  And a good 
thing too, since I have never even seen such a bolt before, and if I had 
to replace the thing, I would have to use something smaller.  

	Anyway, after I got the bolts out the thing I pushed and pulled on 
the thing until it finally gave way, dumping about 35 pounds of gravel on 
my garage floor!  And this was after I got at least 5 pounds in my eyes 
and hair trying to get the mounting bolts loose.  I swear, the thing had 
enough rocks (and big ones at that) to lower the front of the car.  

	The fact that I was doing ths alone didn't help much either.  That 
bumper is no lightweight for sure.  It was like an 87 lb. altar to the 
chrome god!!  But, I did manage to find a place for it in the corner of 
the garage.  Hopefull a new one (or at least a better one) will take it's 
place after the paint job.  

	After a break I went after the left fender.  It wasn't as bad as I 
thought it would be (only a few special "hidden" bolts to find).  And I 
only broke the heads off two bolts--the ones on the bottem behind the 
wheel.  They were rusted pretty bad...exposed to the worst of it I 
suppose.  The hardest part was getting the thing over the antenna mast.  
The fender wanted to hang up on different things.

	So, anyway, next weekend I'll attack the other side, and probibly 
remove the core support too.  Maybe I'll take thoes crusty inner 
fenders down to the power wash for a good once over too.  Get them 
ready for painting.  

	All in all it was a pretty good afternoon.  And my hands excaped 
with only minor damage!!

	
			Scott
		1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98    

------------------------------

From: Jeff Stanish <stanishj@svpal.org>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 03:23:57 -0300
Subject: Re: Wanted: oilpan for '69 455

I got one from Year One a while ago!

On Mon, 29 Apr 1996, Mike Shokouhi wrote:

> Does anyone have a nice oilpan for a '69 455, it's for a H/O.  The 
> current one has the usual dings and it won't look right after the 
> cars restored.
> 
> Thnx,
> 
> Mike
> 
> 

------------------------------

From: "Dink" <heinle@jake.udayton.edu>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 04:48:18 -0300
Subject: email address

Well i'm leaving school now, and headed home.  If anybody needs  to 
get a hold of of me you can use VXSJ39A@prodigy.com but i don't know 
how long this will last.  Well i'm sure am going to miss you guys for 
awile until I get an ISP at home.

later,
   Dink

!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~
Dink           Dayton, Ohio
80 Olds Delta 88 Royale  MSD, K&N, Dynomax, etc..
http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
- --

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 20:42:00 -0300
Subject: Re: Computer Blues 

     

     Brandon,
     
     I had some ideas spring to mind regarding your computer/cam problem, 
     and I thought I might toss 'em out here for the group to chew on.
     
     First, you asked for the '84 H/O cam specs.  I have a drawing of the 
     cam profile, and if I'm reading it correctly, the cam is 262 intake, 
     274 degrees exhaust.  .424 lift on both.
     
     What if you tried switching to variable duration lifters, like Rhoads 
     lifters?
     
     Perhaps your engine is running terrible because you're still using the 
     '85 (roller cam) computer with the '84 (non roller) engine.  You might 
     need to swap computers.  Just swapping the chips might work too.  If 
     you can pull an '84 chip out of a junkyard somewhere for cheap, it 
     might be worth a try.  If you were in the neighborhood, I'd let you 
     try the chip from my '84 H/O (which is out of the car now because I'm 
     using a Hypertech chip).
     
     Anyways, it's late. . .  I just had to get this down in writing before 
     I forgot.
     
     Tom.

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 04:18:22 -0300
Subject: Re: Selling the Cutlass 

In a message dated 96-04-30 23:33:38 EDT, you write:


>
>> I'm stuck DRIVING MY 
>>"FATHER'S OLDSMOBILE"
>
>

Not the worse thing that could happen! Someday you might (will) (are) be a
father as you pass down your 199x car to your son (daughter)! I'd hate to
think that they were STUCK driving thier "FATHERS OLDSMOBILE".  

Gee...not a bad slogan after all....hmmmmm?

Greg K.  

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 04:18:29 -0300
Subject: Re: misc. stuffs 

In a message dated 96-04-30 23:50:31 EDT, you write:

>I guess.... but for $7 for 2 cans of brake clean... why risk it? -Chris-

Chris,

I totally agree!!!! Sometimes I'm stuck in the dark ages (however, that ain't
always that bad) My father worked at and Olds dealer in the early/mid 50'
(before I was born, but not by much!!!) The SOP for brake jobs (at the time)
was to soak the brake shoes in gas, and place in the middle of the shop floor
and ignite (thus drying the shoe and burning off all of the oil/grease/gas
 etc. Not that I advocate such today, but beyond the dangers, it still works
for me.

Anyway, since carbon-tetrachloride has been taken off the market, the "new
breed" of cleaners pale in comparison. If anyone has used the new
reformulated "Gunk" you may agree! Since the new chemical cleaners have
reduced efficacy, we are contemplating a new high pressure (1800 psi) steam
pressure washer for the shop, but $2600 is a lot of bucks right now! Though,
it would come in handy for those engine cleaning projects.

Greg K  

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 04:18:27 -0300
Subject: Re: Comfortron 

In a message dated 96-04-30 23:33:38 EDT, you write:

>Amen to that!  Mine went out on my '67 98 -- shut the whole system down
after
>a few minutes of use (except for De-ice, which bypasses the valve). 

Paul,

Glad you responded! This supports my comment a few weeks ago re: the
similarities (commonalities) between Toros and other Olds models! ALL Toros
are Oldsmobiles, but not all Oldsmobiles are Toros. However, they are not
mutually exclusive!!

You may have pre-solved my Comfortron woes!! My Toros also can be perpetually
stuck in the de-icer mode! Doesn't it always seem after endeless parts
replacement (that were good), the  LAST one you replace is the one!  Now,
after $$$$$ later, you find that the last $28 part you changed out was the
problem.....AAARRRGGGHHHH!

I (supposedly) have 3 NOS heater control valves coming from a previous parts
deal soon for a 67 Toro. I only need two, the other you are welcome to
purchase (assuming it fits the 98).

I would be interested in you photocopying the '66 Comfortron manual and
sending via the US Mule. I will cover costs of copying and mailing, if you
can find the time.
I would appreciate it.

E-mail me if you are willing to do so for my address and yours to send the
check.         
BTW...$800 for a reciever/dryer?  Jeeze, I have 2 of them on the shelf
looking for a home! I think we (collectively) need to talk things up more
between us more before we pay through the nose for stuff that others may have
!!

Greg K                          

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 04:18:29 -0300
Subject: Re: Carb number decoding 

Dave,

Thanks for taking the time to post the information on Q-Jets. I have printed
your mail and will post it in the shop. 

It sometimes seems that things don't make sense with car production. From the
stories I hear, many a change was made right on the production line during
assembly which was not always documented or reflected in a product release.
Ergo, we go around trying to split hairs (so to speak) about why the numbers
don't match up! Take the case where the tansmission plant burned down and
Cadillac gearboxes were showing up in Oldsmobiles, Buicks etc, in the the
late 30's early 40's! Then came the war and everything was goofy! I can
re-research this story if anyone is interested........I may even write an
article for the JWO with regard to this issue.

Anyway, thanks again......

Greg K   

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 07:39:04 -0300
Subject: Re: IRC meeting...

Well, I got the mIRC s/w running and actually connected to the toronto 
server. It could be ugly - I was blundering around there for a few 
minutes and the stuff doesn't seem to be all that simple to use - but I'm 
looking forward to giving it a try. See you Thursday!

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 08:43:20 -0300
Subject: Re: sparking plugs

Maybe the secret of these special plugs lies in their design.  Could it 
be that they are similar to multi-plug heads which help keep mixture lit 
when its especially hard to light off? (Big compression, big boost, big 
nitrous, etc etc) 

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 08:53:07 -0300
Subject: Re: Carb number decoding 

At 07:56 PM 4/27/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Does anyone know how to decode the numbers on Rochester Quadrajet carbs?
>I found a chart in Year One's catalog, and did it, but I really don't think
>it's correct.  My Olds was bought by father-in-law in 1971.  He was the
>second owner, and the car had 14,000 miles on it when he bought.  He kept
>_EVERY_ receipt for any work he ever had done to the car.  While the first
>two years of the cars life is unaccounted for, I doubt the carb was replaced
>during that time.  And according the the repair/maintenance receipts I got
>from my father-in-law, it was never replaced while he had it; he also
>confirmed this himself.  The number on my carb is 7028273 XX.  According to
>Year One's chart, a 170 or 70 at the beginning signifies a Rochester
>product.  No problem there.  The next two digits are the year
>identification.   28 signified series 20, used from 1962-1969.  OK
>there...the 8, according to the chart is the year, 1968.  My car is a 1969.
>I can see that being possible, if the car was made at the beginning of the
>69 model year, and got a 1968 carb.  The next number, the 2, signifies a
>49-state model (a 5 would mean a California approved unit).  The next
>number, the seven, is for make identification.  Year One says 0-2 is C*evy,
>3 is Cadillac, 4 is Buick, 5 is Oldsmobile, and 6 and 7 are Pontiac.  The
>last number identifies transmission type, even #'s are automatic, odd #'s
>are manual. 
>Their chart does state "Because these were assembly line cars and not hand
>built, it is possible to have an even number carburetor appear on a manual
>transmission car, and vice versa."  I can accept that.
>
>According to my carb number and Year One's chart, my carb is a Rochester,
>series 20, 1968 model, 49 state approved, Pontiac manual transmission unit.
>How accurate is year one's chart?  For that matter, how accurate are the
>carb numbers?  I'm not really concerned about the "right" carb or anything,
>I'm more curious than anything...
>
>Thanks!
>--
>Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
>dpauliso@metrolink.net


Interesting.


The number on the Rochester Quadrajet in my '64 Jetstar is 7024054, which seems
to be consistent with what you said.  The 5 would correspond to an Olds.
The last
digit, being even, would signify that it was put on a car with an automatic,
which
mine has.  The 24 would indicate a "series 20."  The beginning 70 indicates a
Rochester product.  But what does the 5th digit, a "0", mean?


************************************************
Daniel A. Gulino
Associate Professor and Graduate Chairman
Department of Chemical Engineering
Ohio University
Athens, Ohio  45701-2979
(614) 593-1495
(614) 593-0873 (fax)
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://www.ent.ohiou.edu/che/faculty/gulino.html
************************************************

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 11:01:45 -0300
Subject: Re: misc. stuffs 

At 04.18 05,01,96 -0300, you wrote:
>In a message dated 96-04-30 23:50:31 EDT, you write:
>
>>I guess.... but for $7 for 2 cans of brake clean... why risk it? -Chris-
>
>Chris,
>
>I totally agree!!!! Sometimes I'm stuck in the dark ages (however, that ain't
>always that bad) My father worked at and Olds dealer in the early/mid 50'
>(before I was born, but not by much!!!) The SOP for brake jobs (at the time)
>was to soak the brake shoes in gas, and place in the middle of the shop floor
>and ignite (thus drying the shoe and burning off all of the oil/grease/gas
> etc. Not that I advocate such today, but beyond the dangers, it still works
>for me.
>
>Anyway, since carbon-tetrachloride has been taken off the market, the "new

i just had the EPA take away about 60 gallons of this stuff about 6 months
ago...when i was in Shippensburg University i worked in the Chem Lab stock
room, we had shelves and shelves of it...and i guess it was much stronger
than the stuff you could get commercially
                    zack
      ___
     /. .\
    _\_*_/_                     -<Buddha>-
   / /   \ \                   Buddha@itw.com
   \_\___/_/            HTTP://www2.itw.com/~buddha/
  /___\_/___\ "That which does not kill us makes us stronger"
 *************

------------------------------

From: "Shawn M. Twomey" <stwom@ctp.com>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 11:05:23 -0300
Subject: Trouble codes 

Thanks much Andy.  I was aware that there was a way to view the "check
engine" codes, but never bothered to look it up...I was just hoping someone
had run into this before and would know right away....lazy, lazy.  Anyway....

The code I get is 15, which the service manual lists as "Coolant sensor
open."  "Code 15 means the ECM has seen the resistance of the Coolant Sensor
Circuit too high as follows:
        High resistance (cold engine temp)
        or high voltage (at ECM terminal '3')
        for a longer time than specified
this could cause detonation on a warm engine due to too much spark advance
or poor driveability due to wrong fuel control."

...I'm not a gearhead (I'm trying!  :) ), but I can't see any relation
between this and gaining & losing several hundred RPM at highway speed,
which I HAD assumed was the lock-up torque converter coming undone, since I
had that problem before.  The car starts a little rough, esp. when cold, but
for a carb with 150K on it I think that's understandable, could use a
rebuild, OK, but otherwise runs great, no detonation (which would be
obvious, right, like a "knocking"?  Ignorance showing thru big time here...).

Anyway, if I get ambitious I'll have pop help me go thru the diags listed
for that code (checking voltages & so forth), and if the RPM thing annoys me
enough I'll haul it to the tranny shop (DOH!)

__________________________________________________________________________
Shawn M. Twomey     |  "No!  Try NOT!  Do, or do not.  There is no try."
stwom@ctp.com       |  -Yoda
__________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 10:13:18 -0300
Subject: Re: Comfortron 

>> That special heater control valve with 2-3 small vacuum lines coming of 
>> it is critical too. 
>
>Amen to that!  Mine went out on my '67 98 -- shut the whole system down after
>a few minutes of use (except for De-ice, which bypasses the valve).  I was
>ready to sell -- had visions of all kinds of problems.  Even thought about
>ripping it out and installing standard AC, but what to do about that temp
>sensor on the edge of dash?  I think I was fortunate that it was only the
>valve (have it bypassed now). 

This may be irrelevant to your particular valve -- I don't know what its
internal seal(s) look like -- but I stumbled onto a way to revive the old
rotary valve that's behind the usual GM HVAC slide controls, at least until
you plunk down the $9 or whatever for a new one. It's a hard plastic disk
with holes in its face where the ports connect in back, and laying over it
is a flexible rubber disk with channels in it that align with various ports
in various positions. A plastic pin through the middle lets it rotate to
open and close various ports on the disk as you push the slide control on
the panel.

So anyway, if the plastic pin doesn't break and shower pieces of valve all
over your carpet after a few years (finding a spring-steel star washer on 
the floor is the usual giveaway :-(  the rubber disk will dry out and
leak like a sieve. The system will probably go to DEFROST and stay there.
I found that if I carefully disassembled the valve and blasted the rubber
disk with brake cleaner, it would soften up again and work great when I got
it back together. Soaking it in brake fluid might work, too.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 10:24:10 -0300
Subject: Re: Joy of Fender,etc. removal...(Lots of rambling) 

>	I only managed to munch one of the ends of the bolts pounding them 
>out (DOH!!) and even then it wasn't too bad (15 minutes with a triangular 
>file carved threads deep enough to thread the nut again).  And a good 
>thing too, since I have never even seen such a bolt before, and if I had 
>to replace the thing, I would have to use something smaller. 

Next time you have to beat on something like this, spin the nut back on
first and hammer on that. Spreads the load out a bit so you don't mushroom
it and you can hit it harder.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Doug Ahern <doug@cobra.cosmic.uga.edu>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 11:45:20 -0300
Subject: Re: Carb number decoding

> According to my carb number and Year One's chart, my carb is a Rochester,
> series 20, 1968 model, 49 state approved, Pontiac manual transmission unit.
> How accurate is year one's chart?  For that matter, how accurate are the
> carb numbers?  I'm not really concerned about the "right" carb or anything,
> I'm more curious than anything...

It is entirely possible for the carb to be a '68 model,  especially 
considering the the 69 models were released in the fall of 68.  what
more, GM probably ordered carbs far in advance.  those were the glory
days of huge inventories,  rockchester probably had 1-2 months inventory
in a warehouse, GM probably had at least 2 months inventory....  your
looking at 4 months right there...

It is also entirely possible that the carb was replaced in the first two 
years,  the original owner may have had a choke problem or a gas leak,
or maybe he thought he was getting poor mileage, and the dealer replaced
the carb... 

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 10:43:50 -0300
Subject: Re: Trouble codes 

>The code I get is 15, which the service manual lists as "Coolant sensor
>open."  "Code 15 means the ECM has seen the resistance of the Coolant Sensor
>Circuit too high as follows:
>        High resistance (cold engine temp)
>        or high voltage (at ECM terminal '3')
>        for a longer time than specified

I think the simple sentence "Coolant sensor open" is clearer than when
they try to explain it in the sentences following.  :-)  I think what's 
_most_ likely to have happened is that the connector on the temperature 
sensor, usually buried under a ton of stuff near the thermostat housing 
and getting baked to death, has fallen apart, and the whole circuit is 
open.

This (going from memory here) code sets after about ten minutes of driving
when the computer notices that the engine has been running all this time
(it knows this because it's getting a tachometer signal and vacuum changes
from its MAP sensor), yet the coolant sensor is giving no feedback on
temperature; i.e. its resistance is infinite (or close to it), unchanging 
and pretty useless. Therefore the computer accuses the coolant sensor of 
being either disconnected or dead.

Look for the two-wire, twisted pair lead pugged onto the top of the sensor
almost out of sight under vacuum lines, fuel line and whatnot near the
thermostat. You're supposed to unplug it by squeezing the round collar to
release two locking jaws from the lip of the sensor. If it comes off in
one piece, check that the center pin and collar contact are clean and tight.
I think you're going to find a really brittle plastic collar that breaks up
when you squeeze it, or baked wire insulation that crumbles. Your best bet
might be to get a replacement connector (the dealer, NAPA or somebody should
have one; it's the same connector used on knock sensors, among other things)
unless you can improvise a repair that will hold up.

>...I'm not a gearhead (I'm trying!  :) ), but I can't see any relation
>between this and gaining & losing several hundred RPM at highway speed,
>which I HAD assumed was the lock-up torque converter coming undone, since I
>had that problem before.

I don't know if it's connected with the temperature sensor error for sure.
If the TCC is coming undone at highway speed, it might be weak manifold 
vacuum from a partially-blocked catalytic convertor that fools the 
transmission into kicking down too much, or even just a funky brake light 
switch -- I think touching the brake releases the TCC solenoid, just like 
it releases your cruise control. You might want to measure your manifold 
vacuum and see if it shows symptoms of a blocked convertor. (Easy test:
does your dashboard VENT setting turn to DEFROST or HEAT positions at
highway speeds? If so, your manifold vacuum is disappearing and the car
thinks the engine is under heavy load requiring a lower gear.) You've got 
150K on the car; how many miles have you got on the convertor?

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 15:33:29 -0300
Subject: Road Trip

Well, the Linc*ln is getting packed for the trip to Pa.  Time to hit the 
road.  Be back Monday.

Hope everybody has a good weekend and the chat session goes well.

Later...

The 66 Toro and Mike

- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Doug McClanahan <mcclan@wsdot.wa.gov>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 12:37:33 -0300
Subject: Gas money 

Any one getting a little uncomfortable about these gas prices?  How do 
you think it will affect the value of the older Olds's?  What is the 
price for premium where you live?

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 12:54:36 -0300
Subject: Re: Gas money 

On Wed, 1 May 1996, Doug McClanahan wrote:

> Any one getting a little uncomfortable about these gas prices?  How do 
> you think it will affect the value of the older Olds's?  What is the 
> price for premium where you live?

Don't think it's just in the USA either, guys... last night (while I was 
_at_ a meeting of my car club) the price of gas went up 7 cents a liter. 
there are about 4 liters in a gallon, so that's a 28 cent increase in one 
day. That's on top of an increase of about the same amount 2 weeks ago. 

Where's Oliver Stone and his conspiracy theory when you need him?

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 12:18:28 -0300
Subject: Re: Gas money  

>Any one getting a little uncomfortable about these gas prices?  How do 
>you think it will affect the value of the older Olds's?

I don't know that it will. People don't buy these things on the basis
of gas mileage or lack of same. Thank God.  :-)

>What is the price for premium where you live?

I paid $1.61/gallon in the northwest suburbs of Chicago the other day.
This is one of the worst areas, tax-wise; most of the price goes toward
state and local taxes. That was for self-serve Amoco Premium. Some full
service stations in Chicago were seen charging $1.99/gallon for the stuff.
(In Canada, is it measured only in liters, or in Imperial gallons, or U.S.
gallons, or ...?)

Prices are supposed to be falling back down in the near future due to
a letup in heating oil demand in the northeast after a long winter,
which had caused the refineries to divert more production to heating
oil rather than gasoline for a longer-than-expected period of time.
I'm not standing on one foot waiting for this to happen, however.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 14:38:47 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Gas money  

Gas in the cities (we're cities, not burbs) 40 miles west of Chicago is 1.35 to 
1.40 for the cheap stuff.  Premium is 1.55+.  Has been jumping up over the last 
3 weeks.

I bet the increase is because of the newly, pricer reformulated California gas. 
Maybe I'll find a '67 W-30 for sale cheap from high gas prices - well, I can 
dream, can't I?

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    "Oldsmobile - powerful roadsters with big V8s"
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu

- --------------
> Any one getting a little uncomfortable about these gas prices?  How do 
> you think it will affect the value of the older Olds's?  What is the 
> price for premium where you live?

Don't think it's just in the USA either, guys... last night (while I was 
_at_ a meeting of my car club) the price of gas went up 7 cents a liter. 
there are about 4 liters in a gallon, so that's a 28 cent increase in one 
day. That's on top of an increase of about the same amount 2 weeks ago. 

Where's Oliver Stone and his conspiracy theory when you need him?

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Robert Yasczak <VJTD@grove.iup.edu>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 13:46:49 -0300
Subject: 81 cutlass

	Just called home today to see whats going on and I find out that my
father's friend is trying to sell his car to him.  He was going to trade it in
on a new car but later found out that the dealership was going to sell him the
new car for the same price without the tradein.  Anyway, back to the car it is
a 1981 Cutlass with T-tops, 260 and white with a sadddle interior.  From what I
know it is in good shape other than a faded interior.  He wants $1000 for the
car, so my father said that he would trade him a train set and $300.  As of now
it looks like my white 85 is going to get a friend and I am going to get a new
summer project.  
	Schools almost out, which means it is time to go back to work soon and
money in my pocket for the cars.  I am sad to have to leave the list for four
months or so, but with no computer at home it makes it hard to check e-mail. 
I'll be back in early September.

			Robb Yasczak	vjtd@grove.iup.edu
                        
			1969 Cutlass
			1969 442
			1976 442
			1981 Cutlass (soon)
			1985 Cutlass

------------------------------

From: Dan Dale <daleds@okra.millsaps.edu>
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 13:51:03 -0300
Subject: RE: Gas money 

>Any one getting a little uncomfortable about these gas prices?  How do 
>you think it will affect the value of the older Olds's?  What is the 
>price for premium where you live?

around here it ranges from 1.25 at the truck stop Conoco to 1.41 at the Exxon's
in the "rich" part of town.
I live in Jackson, Miss.



- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
$Daniel Dale  daleds@okra.millsaps.edu f-list since 2/95 http://www.millsaps.$
$edu/~daleds/index.html  cars: 1972 Cotner-Bevington Oldsmobile 98 Endloader,$
$1966 Pontiac GTO, 1973 Imperial LeBaron, 1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-X 5.7TPI$  
$1955 Cadillac Seville, (2) 1969 Cadillac DeVille Convertibles(one for parts)$ 
$1976 Cadillac Series 75 Fleetwood Brougham, 1961 Imperial Custom            $
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #163
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