
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

oldsmobile-digest        Thursday, 29 February 1996     Volume 01 : Number 105


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:15:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Wanted: Olds Daily Driver

>I am in the market for a Oldsmobile...

Welllll,... my '82 Cutlass T-top Supreme is available...

>A daily driver is what I need, solid body in good running condition.

A teeny bit of rust along the lower edges of the doors is all, but the
chrome lower panel on the rear bumper is bad; needs a bolt-in replacement.

>The sole purpose is to put a lot of miles on it and get back and forth
>to work.

It turned 128,800 on the way in to the office this morning. I noticed the
odometer turning over when I glanced down and discovered I was doing 85
on the Northwest Tollway.  :-)

>What better way to do
>that than with a Olds? I am especially partial to 68/72 Vista
>Cruisers...

*ahem* Well, this would never be mistaken for a Vista Cruiser, but it does
have _more_ glass in the roof than a Vista Cruiser. Nothing like driving
past O'Hare, looking up and seeing the belly of a 747 go overhead.

>I am willing to pay up to $2000...

Deal.

>Maybe I'm dreaming for that price,

Maybe I am, too.  :-)  But seriously, I want a good home for this car,
and time is drawing short. It's northwest of Chicago in Arlington Heights,
and call and/or leave voicemail at the number below if any of you are
interested.

128.8K/Tilt/V6/PW/PB/AC(works)/Dk.Blue/Dk.Blue/RallyWheels/T/ARadials/
RearDefog/SecuritySystem/DeadboltHoodlock/OverheadConsole-MapLight-Tach

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Adobe Systems, Inc. (formerly Frame Technology)
Advanced Product Services
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "wesf@hpdmm12.boi.hp.com" <wesf@hpdmm12.boi.hp.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:22:33 -0400
Subject: Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 #104

>From: Dan Dale <daleds@okra.millsaps.edu>
>Subject: RE: Wanted: xst manifold

>I've been trying to track a passenger side dual exhaust manifold down
>for my '72 98....does anyone know if they have larger outlets than the
>single exhaust manifolds? I want at least 2.25 otherwise I might as well
>try to find some headers.

I don't belive that the RH dual exhaust manifold outlet is larger
than the single exhaust manifold.  If anything, it is smaller, since
the single exhaust manifold has to dump both left and right exhaust
charges.  I think the dual exhaust manifold  would be on the order
of 2", but I'd have to dig the car out of storage and measure it to
be sure.  I threw my old single exhaust manifold out so I can't
measure that for comparison.  2nd thought, I'm not sure what the
size would be since I'm running 2.25 pipes and I don't remember
it having a flair out...

Since folks could order dual exhaust through '74, you could search
salvage yards looking for a RH dual exhaust manifold.  That's what
I did back in '87.  I finally did find a RH dual exhaust manifold,
which "looks" a lot better than the single one capped off.  I must
have looked at hundreds before I finally found the right one.
Fortunately, they are pretty distinctive looking with the rectangular
ports...

Wes Fujii
________________________________________________________________
      ___   ___ ___
     /  /  /  //  /
    /  /__/  //  /    A real motor is an Oldsmobile Rocket 455
   /  HURST //  /     "This is NOT the new generation of Olds"
  /  /  /  //  /_______
 /__/  /__//  //  ___  \
          /  //  /   \  \       Wes "BANZAI" Fujii
         /  //  /OLDS/  /          Boise, Idaho
        /  / \  \___/  /      wesf@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com
       /__/   \_______/

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:29:16 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Timing

          I don't understand how the centrifugal advance weights have
          any effect on starting, as the cranking speed isn't high
          enough to move the weights (typically they start to advance
          above 1500-2000 rpm).

          The vacuum switch on the 69 442 is a part of the emissions
          system.  The vacuum advance was basically disabled on those
          years to reduce NOX emissions (at the expense of reduced
          fuel economy and mid-range power due to the lack of
          advance).  Fortunately, this had no effect on WOT power, as
          the vacuum is zero and the centrifugal advance does not
          require vacuum, obviously.  The vacuum switch set to open at
          230 F was intended to prevent total engine meltdown under
          high loads.  Since the retarded mid-range timing (no vacuum
          advance) causes the engine to run hot, high loads (trailer
          towing, for example) would rapidly cause the engine to
          overheat.  The vacuum switch senses this and provides vacuum
          to the advance diaphragm under these conditions.  Thus, NOX
          emissions would temporarily increase to save the engine.
          For everyday driving, I typically bypass the switch and
          connect the vacuum advance directly to a manifold vacuum
          source.  You can always reconnect the switch for annual
          emissions inspections.  Note that running straight manifold
          vacuum may require you to reset initial timing to prevent
          knocking.  Consider an aftermarket adjustable vacuum
          diaphragm also.

          As a side note, the "NOX Device" mandated by the state of
          California for pre-1968 cars does just this.  It is
          available in many forms, some with thermal switches as noted
          above.  The most basic version involves two rubber plugs for
          the manifold and distrubutor and a dashboard decal that says
          "dont drive under high loads".  One anecdote:  a coworker of
          mine had brought his van in from Canada (this in the early
          80s) and had replaced the factory distributor with a
          mechanical advance unit.  The CA smog inspection station
          made him replace the distributor with a factory unit just so
          he could install the NOX device -- which of course just
          disabled the vacuum advance and made the distributor purely
          mechanical!  A classic example of someone not paid to think!

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com


You can get around the hard-to-start problem by adjusting the centrifugal
advance rather than the initial advance.  I checked the distributor on my '79
olds 260 once and the centrifugal weights were pretty much rusted in place.
Cleaning them up and lubing them made a big difference in top-end power.  I
was so impressed that I decided to try some weaker springs on the centrifugal
 advance (only a few bucks at the local speed shop).  I think they made a
slight improvement, but not much.

But now my '84 H/O has computer controlled timing so I don't have to (don't
*get* to?) mess with it anymore.  My Hypertech Stage 1 chip takes care of that
 for me.

Tom.
______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: Timing Author:
oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET Date:    2/28/96 6:17 AM


 How about a breakdown of the effects of retarded and advanced timing
including the definitions and results? Example, my car is set to 8 BTC, what
would happen if it were at 5 or 10?(knocking, hard start-hot, no power, etc..)
 Also a question on the vacuum advance switch on the front of the intake.
Accordin g to my shop manual, it only functions when the temp gets to 223F.
What is the normal operating temp range of a 69 442?. If this thang is only
operational every once in a while, why do you have to remove the vac line to
the distributort o set the timing. If it times out the same weather the line
is hooked up or not does this mean my vac advance on the distributor is shot?




------------------------------

From: clark@sh28.dseg.ti.com (Pat Clark 952-3776)
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:35:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Timing

> From oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca Wed Feb 28 11:08 CST 1996
> Date: 	Wed, 28 Feb 1996 04:47:34 -0400
> From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
> Encoding: 1947 Text
> To: oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
> Subject: Re: Timing
>
>
> I can't say what will happen to your specific engine, but in general
retarted > timing will prevent knock, be easier to start, get minisculely
better gas > mileage, have less power, and run hotter.  Advanced can cause
knock, harder to > start, MORE POWER and won't run as hot.  Keep in mind all
these effects are > minimal at best, don't expect miracles from adjusting the
timing.



Thanks for the reply. Please define advanced and retarted for me, remember I'm
an idiot ;>) If it was supposed to be 8 BTC would 5 BTC be advanced?

------------------------------

From: tbmarq@mayhem.b23a.ingr.com (Tom Marquis)
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 12:42:15 -0400
Subject: Re: 66 Cutlass

Tom,

I know it's been a while, but I finally got out that way again. The lot is
Uptown Auto Sales. I just checked the phone book and they are not listed.
This doesn't surprise me, the place is just 10 cars and a trailer. Directory
assistance gave me the number as (205) 534 4143. I called them and they are
asking $1200.00. When I stopped by 3 months ago they were asking $1500.00

I didn't stop in because it was Sunday, it was closed, and they have a 8'
fence. I remember the body was straight, the interior was ok, the engine is
a 4bbl and the bumpers are a bit dinged. The guy I called said the engine was
original, but didn't know it's size.

Oh ya, it's gold with a black vinyl top.



I also stumbled across a 66 cutlass converible. I just about locked up my van
when I saw it. Maroon with black top, 330 2bbl. The body and rear bumber were
straight, but the interior was awful. Somebody had covered everything in a
maroon vinyl; Even the door panels and dash. ACK! The top was good, even the
top frame was painted(white). I'm figuring 2.5 - 4K is what they are going to
ask, so when the sales men tells its there on consinment and the guy wants
$7500.00 I just about died, and left quickly.

I hope it is not a car belonging to any of you. If so sorry, its just too much
 IMHO.

If anybody is interested I'll get the number, sooner this time.

TomM

P.S. Does anybody know what 92 Cutlass Supreme 2dr in mint condition is worth?
 I'm just about to buy one.



> Tom,  Any chance you could give me the info on the 66 Cutlass.  I don't
> mind the fact that its an auto....
>
> thanks
> Tom Simpson
>

------------------------------

From: "Dink" <heinle@jake.udayton.edu>
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:56:53 -0400
Subject: Re: 66 Cutlass

> P.S. Does anybody know what 92 Cutlass Supreme 2dr in mint condition is
worth? > I'm just about to buy one.

2dr cpe ave wholesale 7900 ave retail 9775
2dr Intl cpe ave wholesale 10100 ave retail 12175

Don't have a clue what the difference is.  These numbers are from
edmunds used car guide.

Dink
80 Delta 88 Royale


{
Dink           Dayton, Ohio
http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
}

------------------------------

From: Brian Bunner <b3bunner@barnabas.indwes.edu>
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 15:10:13 -0400
Subject: Calais

I was wondering if anybody owns a cutlass calais international?
I have a black H.O. quad 4 and wondered if anybody had any info
about them. Are there any upgrades available and if anybody has
any sales brochures for the 1990-91 Calais?

------------------------------

From: tbmarq@mayhem.b23a.ingr.com (Tom Marquis)
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 15:20:00 -0400
Subject: Re: 66 Cutlass

Thanks,

I'm getting it(the car) for $7250.00 US so that makes me happy.

TomM


> > P.S. Does anybody know what 92 Cutlass Supreme 2dr in mint condition is
worth? > > I'm just about to buy one. > > 2dr cpe ave wholesale 7900 ave
retail 9775 > 2dr Intl cpe ave wholesale 10100 ave retail 12175 > > Don't
have a clue what the difference is.  These numbers are from > edmunds used
car guide. > > Dink > 80 Delta 88 Royale > > > { > Dink           Dayton,
Ohio > http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/ > } >

------------------------------

From: bryce_smith@442.com (Bryceman)
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 15:37:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Calais

>I was wondering if anybody owns a cutlass calais international?
>I have a black H.O. quad 4 and wondered if anybody had any info
>about them. Are there any upgrades available and if anybody has
>any sales brochures for the 1990-91 Calais?

You should get the GM performance parts catalog. I dont have a Quad 4 car but
I noticed there was alot of Quad 4 stuff in the catalog. It is available from
the parts dept of any G.M. dealer. Cost costs about $7.

'65 442
'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender
bryceman@442.com
www.442.com

------------------------------

From: ggreen@ftn.net (Gary Green)
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 15:50:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Calais

>
>I was wondering if anybody owns a cutlass calais international?
>I have a black H.O. quad 4 and wondered if anybody had any info
>about them. Are there any upgrades available and if anybody has
>any sales brochures for the 1990-91 Calais?

I buy, sell, and collect brochures as a hobby.  I have brochures for both 90
and 91 Oldsmobile.  The 90 Olds is a 48 page catalogue, and the 91 is a 56
page catalogue.  Both are 8 1/2 x 11.  They cover the Olds line, including
the calais international sedan and coupe.  Both were produced by GM of
Canada, but I think that the models are now identical.
Can quote any info from them, you can e-mail me direct if you want.

BTW there is a
Brand new 1991 GM Quad-4 engine, no mileage
listed for sale in the Ottawa paper.
(613) 623-6952 evenings aftger 6 p.m. or weekends

Gary Green
85 Toronado - summer driver
29 Plymouth - bottomless money pit

------------------------------

From: urbanch@magi.com (Chris Urban)
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 15:54:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Timing

>
>>
The higher the number the more advance and vice versa. Also to make the most
power not only do you have to dial in more advance but you must limit the
amount of total advance so that you can run more initial. The way to do this
is to hook a vacumn guage to your intake and advance your distributor to get
the highest possible vacumn reading. This will be the ideal initial advance
for yur engine. Then you must verify your total advance with a good quality
timing light such as a LED Snap On and adjust your distributor through the
use of aftermarket springs or welding up the slots  your distributor weights
>travel in. Most cars like about 35-40 deg total, but this can be higher or
lower. You must experiment with your own car. Usually keep giving it more
toatl advance until it pings under heavy accelration then back it off just
enough to control the pinging. If you were to just advance your distributor
without limiting the total advance your only getting a small portion of the
increase available to you. Most stock HEI's when set at 15 deg. initial will
be around 50.total-- far too much...



>
>Thanks for the reply. Please define advanced and retarted for me, remember
I'm >an idiot ;>) If it was supposed to be 8 BTC would 5 BTC be advanced? > > >

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 07:47:50 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Timing

     No, that would be retarded.  The spark would happen 3 degrees later in
     your example.

     To the other guy (sorry, deleted the post already) who said he didn't
     see how the centrifugal advance would affect starting:  Well, that was
     my point exactly.  I was trying to say that to AVOID the hard starting
     use the centrifugal advance to advance your timing only on high RPMs
     rather than bumping the whole curve up a fixed amount with the initial
     timing.

     Hmm..  10 minutes to lunchtime!

     Tom.


______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: Re: Timing Author:
oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET Date:    2/28/96 11:18 AM

Thanks for the reply. Please define advanced and retarted for me, remember I'm
 an idiot ;>) If it was supposed to be 8 BTC would 5 BTC be advanced?


------------------------------

From: lawrencr@gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 16:02:11 -0400
Subject: Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 #104

> >I've been trying to track a passenger side dual exhaust manifold down
> >for my '72 98....does anyone know if they have larger outlets than the
> >single exhaust manifolds? I want at least 2.25 otherwise I might as well
> >try to find some headers.
>
> I don't belive that the RH dual exhaust manifold outlet is larger
> than the single exhaust manifold.  If anything, it is smaller, since
> the single exhaust manifold has to dump both left and right exhaust
> charges.  I think the dual exhaust manifold  would be on the order
> of 2", but I'd have to dig the car out of storage and measure it to
> be sure.  I threw my old single exhaust manifold out so I can't
> measure that for comparison.  2nd thought, I'm not sure what the
> size would be since I'm running 2.25 pipes and I don't remember
> it having a flair out...
>
> Since folks could order dual exhaust through '74, you could search
> salvage yards looking for a RH dual exhaust manifold.  That's what
> I did back in '87.  I finally did find a RH dual exhaust manifold,
> which "looks" a lot better than the single one capped off.  I must
> have looked at hundreds before I finally found the right one.
> Fortunately, they are pretty distinctive looking with the rectangular
> ports...

I'm running dual exhaust out of the single exhaust manifolds, on my '70
98.  The single exhaust set up has one manifold with an outlet on the
bottom middle.  The other manifold has an outlet in the back, and a
inlet in the bottom middle.  A pipe connects the two middles.  The
exhaust from both sides all goes out the back of the one manifold.

I forget which manifold is on which side.

To set this up for dual exhaust, you cap the middle hole of the manifold
with the outlet in the back.  That side is done.  There is no need to
replace the pipes or muffler, unless they're bad or you want something
different.

On the other side, you need to run pipes from that middle outlet back,
since there is no back outlet.  On my car, that meant running the pipe
under the lower control arm (I think that's what you call it).  Not the
best solution, as you can tell by the dents in the pipe from smacking
it into driveways and such.

-
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- Robert Lawrence   | These opinions are strictly my own, lawrencr@gdls.com
|       ____ (810) 825-8007    |   ___<____>======
                  |  <o_o_o_o_o_o>     Tanks, for your support!

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 18:27:32 -0400
Subject: L-block engine

Well, the jury's in. Finally spoke to the head Honcho at Friedland Industries,
the recycler that refuses to sell ANY scrap auto parts. He did not respond to
a letter, including the one from GM saying they care not, after a week so I
went to visit him. He flat-out declined to authorize its release, on the lame
excuses that 'it's policy' [which HE wrote & presumably can change], and "he
doesn't know one from another [engine]". Not that he needs to; that's what
experts like myself are for. Also, anyone with any sense can look at the
engine and tell it's not part of GM's blessed parts.

Boils down to, he just ain't gonna cuz he don't wanna. And that, as they say,
is that. The fat lady has sung.

Unless.... OK, I take a truck load of heads or an engine or two down with the
wrecker... and about 3 guys... one guy is the wheel man, one guy attaches a
chain to the L-engine, one guy unloads the true scrap. Winch the L-engine up &
drive away! Yeah, that's it! A snag! A liberation! A TRADE! Don't ask, and
they can't say NO!

Ah, back to Earth...

Any of you who'd care to tell this hose-head why his policy sucks [suppose it
was an '04 Curved dash engine?] can contact him thusly:

Larry Bass
Friedland Industries
405 E. Maple
Lansing, MI 48910
517-482-3000

Maybe if some sensible people talk to him in an eloquent manner, some smarts
will rub off on him. Seems silly to me to a) destroy rare pc. of history while
b) selling it for $20 instead of, say, $100 to a collector.
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: Rocketeer <bparker@nmsu.edu>
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 20:48:45 -0400
Subject: Headers By Ed

Someone posted a telephone number of Headers by Ed this past week, and
like a dummy I didn't save it. Whoever that was could you respond again
please??

Thanks,

Boyd Parker

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 18:34:29 -0400
Subject: Engine Swap Help Needed

Anyone able to provide assistance?

PLEASE REPLY DIRECTLY TO frankrizzo@infosec.bah.com (Frank Rizzo)!!

David Brown
dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu    (312) 702-9157
"Oldsmobile - powerful roadsters with big V8s"
- --------------------------------------

From: frankrizzo@infosec.bah.com (Frank Rizzo)
Subject: Olds engine swap question.
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 96 12:44:13 GMT
Organization: Booz-Allen & Hamilton
Message-ID: <4h1ikh$7qe@booz.bah.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: nightrider.jmb.bah.com
Keywords: olds engine swap
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

A friend of mine has a '60 Oldsmobile Super/Dynamic 88 [can't remember which
one at the moment] with the original engine [394ci?] but the engine is in
pretty sad shape.  I was wondering if, by some remote chance, anyone knew how
difficult it would be to put a '68-'72 350 or 455 in it?  Clearance does not
appear to be a problem, but I was wondering how closely the motor mounts line
up.  Do special motor mounts have to be fabricated?  Thanks in advance for any
 replies.

------------------------------

From: <edison3@gato.cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 16:14:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Engine Swap Help Needed

I'm from Philly and a Frank Rizzo wants help?

:) :) :) :) :)

Michael R. Frederick, CEO
EDIson3, Inc.
Tampa, Forida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: ws6transam@voyager.net (Daniel R Burk)
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 22:36:55 -0400
Subject: '65 Olds Dynamic 88 service & body manuals

Chris:  I might have a line on the '65 Olds Dynamic 88 factory service
and body manuals that I used to own in 1989.  Apparrently the guy I sold
the car to sold it to someone else who stuck that high compression 425 into
a '62 Chevy (of all things), then converted the rest of the car into a
large chunk of steel bound for Japan.  (Sob!  It only had surface rust!!)

It turns out he has the manuals in the basement and will give them back when
he finds them.

You interested?

- -- Dan.

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 22:55:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Engine Swap Help Needed

Since the Toronado used mounts on the front of the engine like the 56-6?
older cars, it isn't that hard.  I've seen several installed including a '58
98 with tri-power.  At first I thought it was an old J-2 (57-58) but the heat
riser ports on the intake had moveable block off plates.  It was '66 tripower
set up on a 455!

So it's been done before. There'e enough room the engine bay of a '60 to drop
about anything you would like into it.

Bob Handren
'67 W-30 modified
'70 SX convert.

------------------------------

From: <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 23:15:05 -0400
Subject: The Details...

>Tell me bout your 72 Cutlass and its engine...I am working on a similar
>project..


Paul,

Here is a rundown of components for my original 350 Olds smallblock:
Mondello Parts:
- - #8080 Harmonic Balancer
- - #4000 Michigan 77 Rod Bearings
- - #4020 Michigan 77 Main Bearings
- - #4090 Childs & Albert Cam Bearings
- - #2020 Forged Pistons 10.25:1 (+.030 over)
- - #3030 Moly +.030 Cast Iron Rings
- - #WT 195 Crankshaft Windage Tray (fits my Toro oilpan)
- - #SP 777 Hi-Po Oil Pump (fits my Toro oilpan)
- - #OD 260 Oil Pump Drive Shaft
- - #R 100 Oil Restrictor kit
- - #OF 900 Fram, no-bypass, large capacity oil filter
- - #5195 1.687" Exhaust Valves
- - #5180 2.072" Intake Valves
- - #SK 240-S Silicon-vanadium outer/inner valve springs, chrome moly
retainers, valve keepers
- - #1453 Martite valve seats
- - #RA 280 Rocker Arms
- - #RP 292 Rocker Arm Pivots
- - #AR 400 Chrome Moly, Adjustable, 5/16" Pushrods
- - #HL 230 High Rev Hydraulic Lifters
- - #JM 18-20 Cam
- - #CB 150 Offset Camshaft Bushings
- - #CDK 455 Camshaft Degree Kit
- - #CS 120 Camshaft Spacer
- - #TB 740 Camshaft Thrust Button & Bolt
- - #TR 252 Cloyes True Roller Timing Chain
- - #OS 550 Complete Overhaul Gasket Kit
- - #AK 140 Engine Assembly Kit
- - #HR 350 Cast Iron Heat Riser Block Off Plugs
- - #VT 580 Aluminum Bolt-in Valley Tray (under intake manifold)
- - #SC 455 Aluminum heat shield cover for solenoid of starter
- - #VC 455 Chrome valve covers
- - #VB 465 Chrome valve cover breathers

Other Stuff:
- - Edelbrock Performer RPM Intake Manifold
- - Hooker Competition Headers, ceramic coated
- - Crankshaft was ground and crossdrilled (gundrill)
- - Rods given the 1/2" side grind treatment
- - Heads resurfaced
- - Toronado Oil Pan
- - Engine specs built to the Oldsmobile Performance guide by Bob
Gerometta

Soon to be added components to the car include:
- - Mondello Inertia Flexplate
- - Mondello 10" Torque Converter
- - B&G Fuel Injection system
- - Electric Fuel Pump
- - Electric Fan(s)
- - TH-700-R4 4-speed Automatic Transmission
- - Mondello Competition Heads
- - Modello Cam #22-25-10

The car currently is backed by the original TH-350 Automatic warmed
over with a B&M TransPak. The rearend is out of a 1970 W-30. 12-bolt,
3:90 Posi and a W-27 cover. I am going to send pictures to Bryceman's
page once I get his address to send the pics. Bryce, you out there? By
the way, I bought all of my components from Mondello's East Coast
Distributor "Dick Miller Racing" in Jackson, Michigan. His phone number
is (517) 782-2012. Dick is a good guy, tell him I sent ya! Per Dick
Miller, the above components will yield 380HP based on his experience
and Joe Mondello's. The car WILL be at the Detroit Drags this summer. I
think this car will run right now in the low 13 second range at over
100mph. When I get the results, I will post here to the group.

With my "goody list" above, I think the car will be a solid low 10
second performer on the street. That may seem fast but you must
remember that I live in the 3rd richest county in the United States
(re: the known universe). Here in Oakland County, Michigan, as you can
imagine, there are a whole bunch of gearheads here in Metropolitan
Detroit that have a whole bunch more money than I do. I'm afraid to
think of how many 10-second street cars there are around here on
Woodward Avenue on the hot summer nights...

Maybe, I need to add a Nitrous Bottle to the Goody List...;-)



<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Michael R. Hall               Ortonville, Michigan
E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com
Owner: 1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

------------------------------

From: bryce_smith@442.com (Bryceman)
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 01:38:00 -0400
Subject: RE: Headers by Ed

For Boyd and anyone else who may need the phone numbers...

Headers By Ed

612 729 2802
612 729 5638

Also available on the Olds Page under "Parts Source" link.

'65 442
'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender
bryceman@442.com
www.442.com

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 04:45:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Timing

Just a question one one point you mentioned..I thought an engine will get
its best economy with timing as advanced as it can tolerate?

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 07:49:12 -0400
Subject: '58 Olds Heaven

>From the latest issue of "Old Autos", the Canadian old-car newspaper...

There's an article about a wrecking yard called "The Trading Post" that
has 42 1958 Oldses in its inventory. It also mentions they have several
55-57 models as well. The author describes prices as extremely reasonable
and "ridiculously low". He also mentions they have a '56 coral and tan 98
2-door for sale as a complete car only.

The owner is Gary Baumgartner. Contact him at 5415 Burdick Expressway
east, Minot, N.D., (701) 839-3447.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 08:52:29 -0400
Subject: Re: The Details...

>Ahh quite an engine you have there.  Ican not afford such luxuries, but
>am building a bigblock myself. Couple of questions...1) do you have parts
>and 2) how did you come up wit hthe low-10 estimate?  Seems to me that in
>a 72 Cutlass you'd need a 600-700hp Olds (high torque) engine to run that
>kind of times...


Paul,

Nothing terribly scientific here in my claim... and as I said, I don't
know how fast it will run through the traps yet other than the gross
timing I have used using my watch and a marked off 1/4 mile on the
road. I certainly hope that I didn't come off sounding elitist or Mr.
Moneybags, that certainly is just not the case. It has taken me 12
years of work to be able to afford what I did last year. My family and
I budget our money and I work side jobs to afford those extra few
"toys" that you see here. There are an awful lot of people here in
Oakland County that make in excess of $250,000 combined family incomes.
Good for those folks who have succeeded in life for their hard work, I
congratulate them. If I obtain just 1/3 of that for a year, I had a
good year! Anyway, enough of the editorial...

As you know, getting from point A to point B on a dragstrip is
primarily of three factors. Horsepower (primary Torque, secondary
Horsepower), weight and gear multiplication. There are, of course,
many, many other factors but those are the most important. Smallblocks
are significantly lighter than bigblocks and also operate on a shorter
stroke. They are (smallblocks) approx. 100 lbs lighter and the
reciprocating assembly rotates faster, quicker. Displacement builds
torque so bigblocks have a vast advantage over smallblocks, but only in
terms of torque.

The additions I listed on my "Goody List", the cam, heads, electric
devices, will add approx. 150 horsepower to the car. These items only
affect one of the three primary factors I spoke of above. A 72 Cutlass
usually tips the scales at 3600 lbs. My Cutlass is just under 3400 and
I plan to have it under 3200 lbs when I am done. The last thing is the
fact that an inertia flexplate, hi-stall torque converter and my
recently acquired TH-700-R4 tranny are going to make a serious impact
on gear multiplication. These items will certainly do that. The
TH-700-R4 has the best gear ratio's of any automatic that GM has
produced, they greatly exceed the TH-350 and the TH-400. By the way,
gear ratio's for the TH-350 are better than the TH-400 which is why so
many transmission companies build beefed TH-350's. They are just faster.

Sorry for being long winded, but that is my thought process to
obtaining my goal for this car. A plain-jane Cutlass S running 10
second quarters AND streetable.


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Michael R. Hall               Ortonville, Michigan
E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com
Owner: 1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

------------------------------

From: "Bryan Ausmus" <bausmus@ford.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 09:43:49 -0400
Subject: Re: The Details...

   That does sound like an impressive list of parts and I don't mean to be a
wet
blanket, but I can tell you from experience that the 10 sec. mark is VERY hard
to come by for "STEETABLE" car. I race my 70 W30 at Milan Dragway off and on.
I have approx. 425 HP under the hood. The problem comes in getting it stuck to
the track. I'm still trying break into the 11's. I need some better slicks
this year and I should do something about extreme body torque/twist. When I
launch right now the drivers tire stands off the ground. (just call me
Tri-Pod)

    By the way, it won't be long now and Milan will be open for the year.
Anyone can get out there and run. Wednesday's are open practice. $15.00 to
get your car in and run as many times as you can get through the line. Good
way to test out your car or settle that grudge match with your buddy.I'm
not sure how much drag racing I'll do this year, but my wife wants to run her
stock 71 Cutlass a full season of Bracket Racing. (she's got the racing bug!)
I plan on spending more time running at Flatrock Speedway (1/4 mi. oval). And
one more thing, for all the people bad mouthing "THE SMALL BLOCK", I run a 76
Monte with a 350 at Flatrock. When it's time to do the motor tear down I
REALLY appriciate the availablity and affordability of the SB Chevy parts. I
love my Oldsmobiles, but I've been known to wear a bow tie.

- --
Bryan Ausmus
bausmus@ford.com

------------------------------

From: clark@sh28.dseg.ti.com (Pat Clark 952-3776)
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 09:48:11 -0400
Subject: Timing again

	Sorry to keep beating this to death guys, but I could use a little
clarification here. To set the timing on the car per the shop manual:

1. Disconnect the vac advance from the dist and plug the line

	When I do this there is no difference in the timing. The manual says
that at idle the vac switch should have 2-3" vac on it. Is this enough to make
a noticable difference when disconnected? If not, why include this step in the
first place?

2. With the vac advance plugged, set the timing to 8BTC

	This is my initial timing, right? As soon as I plug the vac advance 
back
in this will change, correct? Joe, you suggested running straight vac off of
theintake, do you disconnect this to set your initial timing? How do you
measure total advance ( initial + vac + cent) with a timing light when the
marks on the timing indicator only go up to 12 BTC?



          ___              ___        _________
         /   |            /   |      /         \
        /    |           /    |     |   ___    |
       /     |          /     |     |__|   |   |
      /      |         /      |           /   /
     /       |        /       |          /   /
    /   /|   |       /   /|   |         /   /
   /   /_|   |__    /   /_|   |__      /   /
  |             |  |             |    /   /
  |______     __|  |______     __|   /   /_____
         |   |            |   |     |          |      Pat Clark
         |___|            |___|     |__________|       69 442


   "Just your average 300+hp garage hogging, gas sucking, money pit"

------------------------------

From: Rod Rickenbach <rod@hopi.dtcc.edu>
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 10:06:04 -0400
Subject: Re: The Details...

On Wed, 28 Feb 1996 mikehal1@ix.netcom.com wrote:

> >Tell me bout your 72 Cutlass and its engine...I am working on a similar
> >project..

> With my "goody list" above, I think the car will be a solid low 10
> second performer on the street. That may seem fast but you must
> remember that I live in the 3rd richest county in the United States
> (re: the known universe). Here in Oakland County, Michigan, as you can
> imagine, there are a whole bunch of gearheads here in Metropolitan
> Detroit that have a whole bunch more money than I do. I'm afraid to
> think of how many 10-second street cars there are around here on
> Woodward Avenue on the hot summer nights...

I think a low "10 second performer" with that combination is pretty darn
close to impossible (without nitrous that is).

I don't believe anything is a "10 second car" until it goes to the
track.  Car Craft or some similar rag did a "pro street shootout" where
they had those 1000+ HP pro street cars race at a track.  MANY were 13
second cars (or slower).  What looks good on paper doesn't mean it will
work on the street/track.

> Maybe, I need to add a Nitrous Bottle to the Goody List...;-)

Maybe two...



- -Rod
-
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
    Rod Rickenbach                                       Delaware Tech
     rod@dtcc.edu                                 Computer Services Department
http://www.dtcc.edu/~rod                            Stanton/Wilmington Campus

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 10:54:31 -0400
Subject: Re: '65 Olds SM's

> Chris:  I might have a line on the '65 Olds Dynamic 88 factory service
> and body manuals that I used to own in 1989.  Apparrently the guy I sold
> the car to sold it to someone else who stuck that high compression 425 into
> a '62 Chevy (of all things), then converted the rest of the car into a

Best use yet devised for a *hevy!

> large chunk of steel bound for Japan.  (Sob!  It only had surface rust!!)
>
> It turns out he has the manuals in the basement and will give them back when
> he finds them.
> You interested?
> -- Dan.

YES!!! Sorry, I got the phone message, couldn't get to it right away, then it
slipped my mind. I hate having no memory! By all means, I'll take 'em if/when
they become available.

- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: gludlam@bcinet.net (Gregg Ludlam)
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 11:10:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Timing

>I can't say what will happen to your specific engine, but in general retarted
 >timing will prevent knock, be easier to start, get minisculely better gas
>mileage, have less power, and run hotter.  Advanced can cause knock, harder
to >start, MORE POWER and won't run as hot.  Keep in mind all these effects
are >minimal at best, don't expect miracles from adjusting the timing.

I can echo the above.  My Toro's 425 has a "mild" cam in it and the spec
timing is supposed to be 7.5 degrees.  I've found that the car seems to
perform the best at just below 10 degrees (ie: advanced) at 850 rpm.  It
seems to start easier, run smoother and idle a little better, but is right
on the edge of knocking.  It's taken me several attempts to get it where I
like it.


- -Gregg, the '67 Toro guy

------------------------------

From: gludlam@bcinet.net (Gregg Ludlam)
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 11:20:48 -0400
Subject: Found: '84 H/O For Sale

In the Eastern NC Auto Trader:

"'84 Hurst Olds - 74K original miles, new tires, lightning rods, T-tops."
First $4000 cash."

        Contact:        Magnum Motors, Inc.
                           915 Capital Blvd.
                           Raleigh, NC  27603-1109
                           (919) 821-0441

The car appears to look pretty decent in the photo ad, FWIW.


- -Gregg, the '67 Toro guy

------------------------------

From: "wesf@hpdmm12.boi.hp.com" <wesf@hpdmm12.boi.hp.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 12:20:12 -0400
Subject: Re: 455 RH Dual Exhaust Manifold

>From: Dan Dale <daleds@okra.millsaps.edu>
>
>I've been trying to track a passenger side dual exhaust manifold down
>for my '72 98....does anyone know if they have larger outlets than the
>single exhaust manifolds? I want at least 2.25 otherwise I might as well
>try to find some headers.

I wriggled in to the car in storage, fought the spiders (yech), crawled
under the car and looked at the end of the RH dual exhaust manifold.
Near as I can tell, it looks like a 2.25 output.  The casting is larger
than 2.25 in diameter and my 2.25 exhaust pipe and flange bolt right up
directly, with no reducer or expander (depending on how you look at it).

Good luck on your search to try and find one.  I don't think that most
salvage yards sort and store manifolds by car/engine and for mine, I
found it at the bottom of a huge pile of misc manifolds that they had
in the yard.

Wes Fujii
________________________________________________________________
      ___   ___ ___
     /  /  /  //  /
    /  /__/  //  /    A real motor is an Oldsmobile Rocket 455
   /  HURST //  /     "This is NOT the new generation of Olds"
  /  /  /  //  /_______
 /__/  /__//  //  ___  \
          /  //  /   \  \       Wes "BANZAI" Fujii
         /  //  /OLDS/  /          Boise, Idaho
        /  / \  \___/  /      wesf@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com
       /__/   \_______/

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 12:33:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Timing again

 To answer your questions in reverse order:

 Yes, always disconnect the vacuum advance and plug the engine side (don't
need
 to worry about the distributor diphragm).  The reason for this is that you
want
 to set the initial timing only and any vacuum could move the point plate,
thus
 giving an inaccurate reading.

 The reason you don't measure any vacuum at the hose is that the switch is
 closed with the engine at normal operating temps.  I am surprised, however,
 that the manual indicates as much as 2-3" of vacuum.  This probably just
allows
 for leakage in the switch.  Normal manifold vacuum at idle should be about
15",
 which will make a big difference in timing.

 Just to be safe, check for a leaking vacuum diaphragm by watching the timing
 marks while applying vacuum to the distributor, preferably using a vacuum
pump.
  As an alternative, hook the diaphragm up to manifold vacuum, note the timing

 mark location, then disconnect it.  You should see a significant difference.

 Joe Padavano
 jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

 Sorry to keep beating this to death guys, but I could use a little
clarification here. To set the timing on the car per the shop manual:

1. Disconnect the vac advance from the dist and plug the line

 When I do this there is no difference in the timing. The manual says
that at idle the vac switch should have 2-3" vac on it. Is this enough to make
 a noticable difference when disconnected? If not, why include this step in
the first place?

2. With the vac advance plugged, set the timing to 8BTC

 This is my initial timing, right? As soon as I plug the vac advance back
in this will change, correct? Joe, you suggested running straight vac off of
theintake, do you disconnect this to set your initial timing? How do you
measure total advance ( initial + vac + cent) with a timing light when the
marks on the timing indicator only go up to 12 BTC?



          ___              ___        _________
         /   |            /   |      /         \
        /    |           /    |     |   ___    |
       /     |          /     |     |__|   |   |
      /      |         /      |           /   /
     /       |        /       |          /   /
    /   /|   |       /   /|   |         /   /
   /   /_|   |__    /   /_|   |__      /   /
  |             |  |             |    /   /
  |______     __|  |______     __|   /   /_____
         |   |            |   |     |          |      Pat Clark
         |___|            |___|     |__________|       69 442


   "Just your average 300+hp garage hogging, gas sucking, money pit"


------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 12:57:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Timing again

I would think disconnecting the vac advance would make a difference in the
timing, however, probably not much at idle with 2-3" of vac.  Try raising
the RPMs to about 1200 and check it.  If it doesn't move, I would think it
is bad.  Check a shop manual that covers the vac adv. unit for sure.

I beleive for all '64 and up Olds engines, 1200 RPM is recommended for
setting the timing.  Maybe this was implemented later ('middle '70s?).
There are also specs given for idle and higher RPMs, but 1200 is
recommended for accuracy.  I guess idle isn't smooth enough (but enough for
blt's [blowties]).

In order to measure total advance, you need an adjustable timing light.
You negate what the total advance should be so the mark shows up at 0.
This will tell you how far off the total advance is.  Somethings not
working, something sticking, maybe you set the base wrong, etc.

The cheapies have a turnable knob, the good ones are digital (Snap-On is
one - $$$).

David Brown
dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu    (312) 702-9157
"Oldsmobile - powerful roadsters with big V8s"

- ----------------------
 Sorry to keep beating this to death guys, but I could use a little
clarification here. To set the timing on the car per the shop manual:

1. Disconnect the vac advance from the dist and plug the line

 When I do this there is no difference in the timing. The manual says
that at idle the vac switch should have 2-3" vac on it. Is this enough to make
a noticable difference when disconnected? If not, why include this step in the
 first place?

2. With the vac advance plugged, set the timing to 8BTC

 This is my initial timing, right? As soon as I plug the vac advance back
in this will change, correct? Joe, you suggested running straight vac off of
theintake, do you disconnect this to set your initial timing? How do you
measure total advance ( initial + vac + cent) with a timing light when the
marks on the timing indicator only go up to 12 BTC?
          ___              ___        _________
         /   |            /   |      /         \
        /    |           /    |     |   ___    |
       /     |          /     |     |__|   |   |
      /      |         /      |           /   /
     /       |        /       |          /   /
    /   /|   |       /   /|   |         /   /
   /   /_|   |__    /   /_|   |__      /   /
  |             |  |             |    /   /
  |______     __|  |______     __|   /   /_____
         |   |            |   |     |          |      Pat Clark
         |___|            |___|     |__________|       69 442

   "Just your average 300+hp garage hogging, gas sucking, money pit"

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:20:30 -0400
Subject: Signal to Noise Ratio

Time for me to put on my administrator's hat and gently ask everyone to
think before you post to the list.

Basically everyone here is amazingly polite and well mannered for which I
think we are all grateful. I only ask that when posting you try to keep
the following in mind:

1. Try to keep it at least somewhat Olds-related;

2. Please try to limit your quoting in follow-ups to the minimum required.
It takes a little work to delete 20 lines of irrelevant text but I'm sure
most of us would appreciate the effort;

3. Please take personal messages offline and send them to the person
directly, not to everyone on the list. If you're buying something from
someone, looking for specific info that probably isn't of interest to
everyone else, whatever, use direct email please and thank you!

Again, everyone here deserves a big congrats for the etiquette generally
exercised every day on the list. Please, no one take offence at these
suggestions, I'm just trying to remind folks of things that are easy to
forget sometimes. Thanks all!

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #105
********************************
