
oldsmobile-digest         Thursday, 18 April 1996      Volume 01 : Number 151


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 13:37:23 -0300
Subject: Re: Tighten Balancer? 

>Hello,
>
>Anyone have any tips on how to tighten the harmonic balancer?  The spec says
>210 to 300 ft-lbs.  Mondello says 160 minimum with Locktite.  But how do I
>keep
>the engine from turning over?  I tried to wedge a block of wood between the
>ground and one of the screws which hold the pulley on, but the car just
rises
>up and spins the balancer over the wood!  Even with my full weight on the
>fender.  So if anyone knows of a better way, please let me know!!! 

I just dealt with this question myself, but in reverse: I wanted to *loosen*
the balancer bolt on the 350 shortblock from my Vista Cruiser (the last part
to part out; anyone need one of these in the northeast? $50 w/o flywheel).

I had removed the starter already, and was removing the flexplate bolts, when
it occurred to me that now would be a perfect time to try that balancer bolt.
I put a 9/16"(?) socket  with a short extension on the flywheel bolt, turned
the balancer bolt gently until the socket contacted the rear of the block,
and then wailed on it with a *long* 1/2" drive socket wrench. The bolt broke
free without too many pulled muscles on my part.

For you, you'll want to remove the flexplate cover on the tranny, and put a
socket on the flexplate bolt on the other side of the engine to tighten the
crank bolt. You may have to remove the oil filter and/or mount to do this.
Then just tighten the bolt as much as humanly possible (you only have to
worry about exceeding that torque figure if you're using an air gun). Also,
try at least an 18" long socket wrench/breaker bar to get more leverage.

Good luck, and let us know how it turns out!

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 13:04:27 -0300
Subject: Re: Misc. Olds design questions/comments 

>>4 doors have taillights like that.
>
>OK, *that* was where I saw them then.
>
>Another question, then; what years were the "fastback" Cutlasses of that
>generation produced?

Uh, '78 to '80, something like that? Style-wise or sales-wise (or both),
I think they were dogs. They had, BTW, the same taillights as the regular
sedans. Don't know if they were _exactly_ the same parts, but the styling
was the same.

>Was there also a notchback produced at the same time?

If you mean the "regular" 4-door, I'm pretty sure it was. (Oh, no, this
is where a whole bunch of people jump in and say, "Bzzzt! Thanks for
playing!" :-)

There's a fastback Cutlass for sale in Arlington Heights, IL at the moment.
I just glanced at it as I went by the other day: I think it was maroon,
looked fairly straight, standard old-GM-spring droopy nose, of course.
If there's interest I'll be happy to stop over and knock on their door
for the details.

>I
>remember the show car with the Toro 455 (403) under that back window. Has
>that show car been crushed, or is it still around?

It was probably crushed, unless by some miracle a collector such as Joe
Bortz of Highland Park, IL has nabbed it.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 14:23:36 -0300
Subject: FS 65 Olds 98 Convertible, Dayton,OH (fwd)

	I found this on Usenet.  Sounds pretty cool.  


Red with black power top. All power. 425ci. 4-barrel carb. 
All numbers match. 59,000 original miles. Very Good condition.  
One of only 4903 built.

Make offer.

e-mail: js048@randr.com    - or
		john_sanner@reyrey.com 
		ag588@dayton.wright.edu
Day phone: 513-443-2272

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 13:53:21 -0300
Subject: Re: 76 commercial 

>Anyone seen the new 76 gasoline comeercial with the Aurora "nocking"!  I
>couldn't believe it!  Here is oldsmobiles supposed flagship new car, and 76
>uses it in their commercials showing the car parked, and a guy gets out, but
>the car keeps on knocking.  They seem to think their gas would solve the
>problem.  

Waaaaiiiit a minute, here... I _knew_ there was something extra weird
about this, not just that they'd used a new car for no apparent reason,
but I couldn't put my finger on it. Somebody tell me if this makes sense:

The Aurora is fuel-injected. Switch the engine off, no fuel gets injected.
With no carburetor to suck fuel from, how _would_ the engine run on? (Okay,
with the appropriate relays stuck on, or whatever, to keep the injectors
going, maybe it could, but remember that Union 76 claims that the problem
is only fuel-related.

Anyone?

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: eda@dl.tc.faa.gov
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 15:02:23 -0300
Subject: Vinyl Top Removal (was More '80s stuff...) 

I removed the vinyl top on my '77, and it's a pain in the ass.  Mileage my vary for '80s models, but...

1. Edges are clipped onto a bunch of rivets, which you'll have to cut off...that's not so bad, but no picnic.

2. Don't expect a finished product underneath, i.e., they're not too particular about body work where the roof meets the part around the opera window.  Had to fill mine, as the roof part wasn't even level with the other part.  Then some smartass comes along and says, "Bet this is body filler...*scratch*...yup, it's body filler".  Would've been one less smartass in the world if I'd caught him.

3. Fuzzy hell.  Imagine yourself picking strands of fiberglass-like padding out from the area between your opera window and the inside of the sheet metal...similarly around back window.  Not fun.

Is it worth it?  Probably.  Of course, this was all in preparation for paint, which after losing my shop space and getting in a couple accidents in a short space of time, well, the car is in primer to this day, which is a shame.  It is nice to have a hardtop, though.  Oh, from my experience with my Hurst/Olds, a warning.  If you have t-tops, you're probably going to get some body flex around about the top of the opera window.  This could lead to cracks, if you have to do the aforementioned body filler trick up there.  But I don't really know what's under there for the 80's models, I'm just guessing that it's a similar story.  Good luck!

Ed Atlee			'77 Cutlass Supreme
eda@dl.tc.faa.gov		'84 Hurst/Olds
	R O C K E T	P O W E R E D ! !

------------------------------

From: eda@dl.tc.faa.gov
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 15:06:26 -0300
Subject: Re: Historical Info 

> The History Center can also provide, for cars built from 1977 on, a copy
> of the original selling invoice for your car, which will be able to tell

BZZZT!  Letter's at home, but something to the effect of "Unfortunately, we cannot now go back and get the original invoice..." for my *1984* Hurst/Olds.  I was really hoping to get that, too.  Still, lots of good info.

Ed Atlee			'77 Cutlass Supreme
eda@dl.tc.faa.gov		'84 Hurst/Olds
	R O C K E T	P O W E R E D ! !

------------------------------

From: eda@dl.tc.faa.gov
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 15:31:16 -0300
Subject: re: Misc. Olds design questions/comments 

BobOBarry@aol.com writes:

> On the '76-'77 Cutlasses, what determined whether the car had the
> squared-front grill or the sloped grill? Mom's Vista Cruiser had the squared
> grill, but a friend's had the grill that slanted back.

Good question.  I believe the Cutlass S (platform that the 76-77 442 was based on, btw) was the only one given the slanted grill, kind of fits with the triangular rear window and sloping back glass.  But, from your post, are you saying that your friend's was a Vista Cruiser also?  Okay, then, let me rephrase that:  I *used to* believe that the Cutlass 'S' (which is *not* the same as a Supreme, just to avoid any confusion).  I really don't know for Vista Cruisers.

Ed Atlee			'77 Cutlass Supreme
eda@dl.tc.faa.gov		'84 Hurst/Olds
	R O C K E T	P O W E R E D ! !

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 15:32:22 -0300
Subject: SB head swap correction

1st of many I presume... first off, I've been informed that the advertised
CRatio of the 9-307 is but 8.0.

Secondly, I had to get them #10 heads at Padnos- they kept calling me, saying,
"buy me, buy me!" So I did, and as luck would have it, the nice man sold me,
for the grand sum of $11:
- -pair of #10 heads
- -intake from the same '76 engine, with fake-Qjet carb intact...
- -pair of #4 heads
- -pre-egr intake for a big block
- -trailer hitch ball & #17 RH xst manifold...

So, the correction arises from the fact that the bores under them puny little
10 heads was but 3.5" or so- thus it's a 260 engine, NOT a 350, as the prev.
info had said [copied from Mondello's Catalog...]

Furthermore, I got the block's ID, and another was there too... it's like
"550355 5" on the shelf behind the water pump, and "355" is cast into the side
of the block, but up real close to the head surface. Engine Unit # 6388046 on
the oil fill tube.  Ah, and the #10 heads do indeed have them puny scrawny tiny
little ports in the head, though I think, not sure, that this intake, which has
mounts for a Qjet but intake holes only for two barrels, has the larger ports
at the head surface... At least, the gasket did, and looked like the intake
pressed agains the larger area.

So, with one correction [#10 heads == 260 engine] but not the other yet [307 =
8.0 CR], here's the SB head swap => CRatio info:



Eng Head Head Stock *CVolume*   >>New CRatio, w/ head of chamber size: [cc]<<
CID ID   cc    CR   ci     cc     57    60    64    67    75    79    83
330  3   60   9.0   5.16  84.5   9.29  9.00  8.64  8.39  7.79  7.53  7.29
330  4   60   9.0   5.16  84.5   9.29  9.00  8.64  8.39  7.79  7.53  7.29
350  5   64   9.0   5.47  89.6   9.68  9.37  9.00  8.74  8.13  7.85  7.60
350  6   64   9.0   5.47  89.6   9.68  9.37  9.00  8.74  8.13  7.85  7.60
350  7   64   8.2   6.08  99.6   8.74  8.50  8.20  7.99  7.48  7.26  7.05
350  7a  64   8.2   6.08  99.6   8.74  8.50  8.20  7.99  7.48  7.26  7.05
350  8   79   8.0   6.25  102.4  9.91  9.59  9.20  8.93  8.28  8.00  7.74
260  10  57   8.0   4.64  76.1   8.00  7.73  7.41  7.19  6.66  6.43  6.22
260  2A  ??   8.0   4.64  76.1   --can't do it w/o head cc info--
350  3A  75   8.0   6.25  102.4  9.49  9.20  8.84  8.59  8.00  7.74  7.49
403  4A  83   8.2   7.00  114.7  10.3  10.0  9.63  9.37  8.74  8.46  8.20
307  5A  67   8.2   5.33  87.3   9.13  8.83  8.46  8.20  7.60  7.33  7.09
307  7A  64   8.2   5.33  87.3   8.83  8.55  8.20  7.96  7.39  7.14  6.91
                       Head ID:   10    3-4   4-7   5A    3A    8     4A

Hoo-boy, lookit that 260 with 403 heads... 6.22 Compression Ratio!
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 15:52:18 -0300
Subject: Re: 76 commercial

At 01:53 PM 4/17/96 -0300, you wrote:

>
>The Aurora is fuel-injected. Switch the engine off, no fuel gets injected.
>With no carburetor to suck fuel from, how _would_ the engine run on? (Okay,
>with the appropriate relays stuck on, or whatever, to keep the injectors
>going, maybe it could, but remember that Union 76 claims that the problem
>is only fuel-related.
>
>Anyone?
>
>Andrew C. Green           


I haven't seen the commercial; down here if Florida there aren't many 76
stations (I've seen one, maybe two).  Sounds like your describing run-on, or
dieseling, though.  It could have a few causes, though I'm sure I don't know
all of them.  A rich mixture can cause it, also incorrectly set timing (both
of which would be computer controlled in the Aurora).  The injectors would
be shut off without the engine running; therefore it would be impossible for
the engine to do that (barring any other mechanical or electrical malfunctions).

Just my 2 cents worth, I may be wrong...
- --
Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 16:51:55 -0300
Subject: miscs

> - -- Edit the quoted material. I know mailers like Eudora (which I'm using

Heed this man, you!

> - -- Expert help from anywhere and everywhere

That's not "self-appointed" experts, neither! Nossir!

> 350  7A  64   8.2   6.08  99.6   8.74  8.50  8.20  7.99  7.48  7.26  7.05

Dang,that's s'posed to be a "7a" not "7A"...

> One trick you can use on those stuck sheetmetal screws holding trim is
> to give a healthy hammer tap to the screwdriver while inserted in the
> screw.  Since its a sheetmetal type, the tap will dislodge much of the
> corrosion holding it; also try spraying from the backside with a Liquid
> Wrench (penetrating oil) type of product.

This also helps seat the screwdriver bit into the screw and form them
together... I use those expendable replaceable bits, the best I can find, and
always use a NEW one if the rust looks bad, cuz once the screw head is smeared,
it's drill time...

> Unfortunately those sheetmental screws are often a hardened or
> stainless type which cannot be drilled out in any way.  This is the

I have had good success using Cobalt drills. It does not always work, but I
make sure there's 3 freshly sharpened Cobalt drills in the cordless drill kit
whenever I go looking for WW trim...
- --Chris--

- --snip several hundred dozen lines of quote---
> John T. Blair  WA4OHZ          email:  jblair@nhr.com

Ahem... Trim them quotes, folks...

- --Huhm, same CR with a 350 with #10 heads and with #8 heads??
>      If this is true, then I think we also need to identify what type of
>      piston is used with each engine listed in the first column, or at bare
>      minimum, what year of engine that those heads originally came on so
>      that we can find pistons to match.
>      Tom L.

Well, Tom, that's one of the hazards of this kinda thing. First, there's the
typo/ misinformation that the 10 heads were 350- they are 260 units according
to my current research. And, I've been out of the small block world for several
years, specializing in BB collection & dissemination of factual information...
I'm still learning too. Then, there's the fact that say the 330's came in 9.0
and 10.25 CR's; I had to pick one for example, to keep the chart fairly small,
so I chose the 9.0 ratio engine, figuring it's the more common version. Yes,
they generaly achieved different CR's by using pistons with diff. dish volumes-
the 330's  and 350's pre-71 or so had a dish of ABOUT 1/8 deep for HC and 1/4"
deep for LC. Which brings up an interesting point- the smogger #8 head engines-
achieving 8.2? CR with 79cc's of head chamber must've been done with nearly a
flat top piston... so... if you stick an earlier head on there... with say
64cc, that should boost the CR nicely, right? Maybe them smog motors ARE good
for something, just junk the #8 heads, pop on a set of 7a's or 7A's...
Voila' 9.2 compression! Hey, we might be on to something here...
- --Chris--

> CID ID    Year of issue
  330  1     1964
  330  2     1965
  330  3     1966
  330  4     1967

> 350  5     1968-9
> 350  6     1970
> 350  7     1971
> 350  7a    1972
> 350  8     1973-76
> 260  10    1976
> 350  3A    1977-up ??
> 403  4A    1977-79
> 307  5A    1980-84 ???
> 307  7A    1985-90 ?

That's a good start...

> It's time for a valve job on the 455 in my 68 Toro! (at least I think so)
> Questions posed to the great engine gurus here:
> Who are the best people to have do this?

Uh, machinists? Huh-huh... Your local machine shop...

> Anything particularly special I should know or tell who does it?

Yeah, it's not a C*evy. Mill the block/head surface about 0.040" if you want
any semblence of original compression. Install hardended xst seats if you can
possibly afford it.

> Do I really have to do both heads (only have one bad valve in one cylinder)

No, but this is very far into the land o' Mightaswell... If one's gone, how far
behind can the other be?

> PS...its possible its just a weak valve spring (can I just replace the one
> (two actually as they are double sprung) affected valve?
> Greg Kalkhoff    Toronado66@aol.com

Well, that'd be a good idea anyhow... not likely that that's your ONLY problem,
but not impossible... You could start by replacing them, see if it helps, if
not you're not losing anything... Technically, that inner thing is not really a
'spring' - it offers minimal spring assistance- it's just there to rub against
the spring and thereby damp out harmonic oscillations. It's called a damper or
damper spring. --Chris--

> Mondello sells a product called ZA-12 for filling heat risers in heads.
> Has anyone used this product, and if so 1) how much do you need and 2)
> what is the procedure?  Also, anyone got a G body clutch pedal setup?

I bought some, have yet to use it. Dick Miller told me to just heat the head,
like in the oven, to about 3-400 degrees F, then place it intake side down on a
good surface and pour in the zinc alloy. Better melt the alloy first, I guess,
like while the heads are heating... I bought what they sent me, 'nuff to do a
pair of heads, $20  or so??? I thought I might cheap out and try filling PART
of the crossover with clay, so that the amount of alloy req'd would be less.
We'll see. Oh, pour in just enough to form a wall where it oughta be on the xst
port, and die-grindit to your desired shape when nice & cool. Also, I was
thinking that since what you are doing is essentially soldering, that smearing
solder flux on the head walls where you want it to stick would help a lot.
Dunno for sure yet, need to  'experiment'! Don't them Irqiboos have the clutch
stuffs you need?

> The Cutlass came with 10.25:1 compression on a manual and 10.75:1 on the
> Hydramatic and I believe the same was true for the Special. To get the
> ratios up there, Buick did it with pistons and Oldsmobile did it with heads.

"Olds gets it up with good heads" then? Sorry, couldn't resist that one...
- --Chris--

> Anyone have any tips on how to tighten the harmonic balancer?  The spec says
> 210 to 300 ft-lbs.  Mondello says 160 minimum with Locktite.  But how do I kee
> the engine from turning over?  I tried to wedge a block of wood between the
> ground and one of the screws which hold the pulley on, but the car just rises
> up and spins the balancer over the wood!  Even with my full weight on the
> fender.  So if anyone knows of a better way, please let me know!!!
> Tony

Hmmm, I've used vice-grips on the flex plate, course you gotta have that access
shield off... Did you know that you're supposed to put sealer on the crank
snout when installing a HB? prevents seepage around the HB bolt... little known
fact. --Chris--

> From: urbanch@magi.com (Chris Urban)
> Subject: Re: ZA-12 Heat Riser Filling
> Yes I've used it and its crap. The hucks of SOLID metal he sends you as good
> as any you'd pick right off the ground. It would take about 1 inch of
> grinding all around to get them even close. Then you should get them secured
> somehow (welding is good but not everyone can get access to a good cast iron
> welder -- and if you do have him weld the entire whole up and forget about
> mondello) otherwise they will tick like crazy in your engine from the vibratio

Whoa, Nellie, there, Mr. Urban! Different animals! I have used the blockoff
plugs he sells, and there's one thing to note here- SOME heads, notably SOME C
heads or earlier, have a much smaller xst crossover hole *at the intake
surface* than most others, for which the plugs were designed. These heads would
indeed require a large amount of grinding to fit the plug. On the other hand,
the heads to which I fitted the plugs required only the tiniest bit of
grinding, and that was mostly because I chose to weld them in place instead of
count on friction.
  The question was about the ZA-12 alloy, which one is to MELT and POUR into
that crossover passage.

> I can't end without a word about Chris (the) Witt's info.  Even though I
> haven't the foggest notion of what in the h*ll he's talking about
> sometimes, it's still interesting reading and I appreciate that he takes
> the time and makes the effort to help us all out.  Thanks Chris.
> The 66 Toro and Mike

I had no idea this stuff was so foreign to some folks. Guess I do live in my
own little world...  --Chris--

> >Anyone seen the new 76 gasoline commercial with the Aurora "knocking"!  I
> >couldn't believe it!  Here is oldsmobiles supposed flagship new car, and 76
> >uses it in their commercials showing the car parked, and a guy gets out, but
> >the car keeps on knocking.  They seem to think their gas would solve the
> >problem.
> >
> >Any thoughts?

Well, clearly, it says "if you have the good sense to buy a PREMIUM aotomobile,
one with a real performance heritage, one which requires premium gasoline, and
chokes on the swill that ordinary vendors proffer, then, you should surely have
the good sense to buy it the finest gasoline in all the land- Our Brand!"
Right? :)

> Is there a counterbalancing hole anywhere around the perimeter of the
> balancer? I made use of one I found the last time I had to do this: I
> dropped a 5/32" socket in the hole clipped to a 1/4" ratchet handle,
> then swung the handle around until it butted against the engine block.
> To lock the balancer back on again afterwards, I simply turned the
> ratchet handle the other way until it locked against the block at
> another spot in the opposite direction. It made the job a breeze.

I was going to suggest a similar move; I have used a straight steel bar stuck
into one of the balancing holes... but, your method gives me a problem, if that
hole is in the outer ring... namely, if you hold the outer ring and then apply
tork to the inner part, you are begging to break the rubber bond of the HBal'r.

Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: "Shawn M. Twomey" <stwom@ctp.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 16:55:35 -0300
Subject: '80s stuff 

     >Garaged, no rust, even on the doors, all options, t-tops, power 

     Are the doors rusting on these a particular problem area?  Mine isn't   
     rusting there, but I don't see many others, and It'd be nice to know of 
     the problem areas to keep clean and keep a watch on.

Yes, at least up here it is.  The biggest spot usually, as someone
described, is right along the bottom of the doors, on the inside.  That's
the first place I look when buying an '80s Cutlass.  If that whole seam has
no spots showing, I know the car has not been driven in the winter.

     >My '84 Gutlass is a "Special Edition."  has most options avail,       
     >except it has the V6, special badges on the landau top and inside, I 
     >just found out that the cloth on the bench seats was avail. only for 
     
     My '84 H/O also has a cloth interior.  So did my '79 Supreme 
     Broughman.

Sorry, I meant that this cloth was different than normal.  It's a really
nice interior actually, or it was until my buddy spilled Works (Hydrochloric
acid) cleaner on the passenger seat.  OK, so we made a few Works bombs when
we were youthful and foolish.....little bang, lots of noise.

__________________________________________________________________________
Shawn M. Twomey     |  "No!  Try NOT!  Do, or do not.  There is no try."
stwom@ctp.com       |  -Yoda
__________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 17:19:11 -0300
Subject: Re: miscs

At 04:51 PM 4/17/96 -0300, you wrote:

>I bought some, have yet to use it. Dick Miller told me to just heat the head,
>like in the oven, to about 3-400 degrees F, then place it intake side down on a
>good surface and pour in the zinc alloy. Better melt the alloy first, I guess,
>like while the heads are heating... I bought what they sent me, 'nuff to do a
>pair of heads, $20  or so??? I thought I might cheap out and try filling PART
>of the crossover with clay, so that the amount of alloy req'd would be less.
>We'll see. Oh, pour in just enough to form a wall where it oughta be on the xst
>port, and die-grindit to your desired shape when nice & cool. 

What are the advantages to filling in the exhaust crossovers?  Can it be
done to small block heads, or just big blocks?

Thanks
- --
Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Robert Yasczak <VJTD@grove.iup.edu>
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 17:19:34 -0300
Subject: Re: Misc. Olds design questions/comments

I think that the 4-door Cutlass's also had the slanted nose piece also.
		Robb Yasczak    vjtd@grove.iup.edu
		1969 Cutlass
		1969 442
		1976 442
		1985 Cutlass

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 16:25:58 -0300
Subject: Re: 76 commercial 

>The Aurora is fuel-injected. Switch the engine off, no fuel gets injected.
>With no carburetor to suck fuel from, how _would_ the engine run on? (Okay,
>with the appropriate relays stuck on, or whatever, to keep the injectors
>going, maybe it could, but remember that Union 76 claims that the problem
>is only fuel-related.

Okay... following up _myself_ again... I have just got off the phone after
a pleasant conversation with the Chicago Tribune's Transportation columnist
Jim Mateja. He hasn't seen the commercial in question, but did offer the
following opinions:

- -- Yes, an injected engine could conceivably run on with whatever fuel
remained in the cylinders, although _how_ long is open to debate. He
thought the Aurora in question was "probably rigged", although I think
they simply dubbed in a sound effect.

- -- The fact that it was an Aurora in the first place was probably due to
Oldsmobile being desperate to get their brand in front of the public no
matter what, and maybe failing to ask Union 76 exactly what they planned
to do with it.  ;-)

- -- The fact that they picked a luxury car instead of, say, an old beater
that a lot more people could relate to was most likely to get the point
across that "this is what happens when you buy some offbrand cheap gas
instead of ours" (paraphrasing).

If he decides to write anything further about this at all, I'll let you
all know. You can read a recent column of his on the Tribune's web site
at http://www.chicago.tribune.com by scrolling down to their search box
at the bottom of their main page and entering "mateja".

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 18:32:46 -0300
Subject: Overdrive whine... 

Just a note on late model Cutlass's with a whine...   I have an 86 442 that
also has a whine in first gear.  It is my understanding that both the OD
tranny's, the TH 200 4R and TH 700 R4, have a whine in first gear that is
generated inside the tranny.  Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 18:44:33 -0300
Subject: Re: Misc. Olds design questions/comments 

In a message dated 96-04-17 14:51:51 EDT, you write:

>> On the '76-'77 Cutlasses, what determined whether the car had the
>> squared-front grill or the sloped grill? Mom's Vista Cruiser had the
>>squared grill, but a friend's had the grill that slanted back.
>
>Good question.  I believe the Cutlass S (platform that the 76-77 442 was
>based on, btw) was the only one given the slanted grill, kind of fits with
>the triangular rear window and sloping back glass.  But, from your post, are
>you saying that your friend's was a Vista Cruiser also?  Okay, then, let me
>rephrase that:  I *used to* believe that the Cutlass 'S' (which is *not* the
>same as a Supreme, just to avoid any confusion).  I really don't know for
>Vista Cruisers.

OK, no the slant-grill car was not a VC, but a regular Cutlass; but I kind of
thought it was a Supreme. When did all RWD Cutlasses become Supremes?

------------------------------

From: GUEISEPPI THE BARBER <JJF96@uno.cc.geneseo.edu>
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 16:05:56 -0300
Subject: Re: Group split

joe ferrero
13 rorbach lane
geneseo, ny 14454
(716) 243-3437

i  think the split is not just "paint on an exhaust hanger" but a lot of 
what is occurring now but more specified to particular needs.  if the 
split is done....  those that want it can subscribe to just one or the 
other.  those that don't want to split, subscribe to both.  you'll get 
the same info.  so just do it!  (nike  --maybe,  split --yes!)

- --joe    the college student

------------------------------

From: jblair@nhr.com (John T. Blair)
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 19:02:44 -0300
Subject: Re: 455 Valve Job 

>It's time for a valve job on the 455 in my 68 Toro! (at least I think so)
>
>Questions posed to the great engine gurus here:
>
>Who are the best people to have do this?
>
>Anything particularly special I should know or tell who does it?
>
>Do I really have to do both heads (only have one bad valve in one cylinder)
>
>PS...its possible its just a weak valve spring (can I just replace the one
>(two actually as they are double sprung) affected valve?
>
First, it's best to have both done at the same time, as long as you can afford it. The big thing is that if they (the machine shop decks the heads the MUST take the same amount off the vale stems or you will wipe out a set of lifters.
This is do to the non-adjustable vavle train that the OLDS engines use.

Jim Chermack (804)474-0869



John T. Blair  WA4OHZ          email:  jblair@nhr.com
Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (804) 495-8229

48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget  65 Morgan 4/4 Series V
     75 Bricklin SV1   77 Spitfire

------------------------------

From: jblair@nhr.com (John T. Blair)
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 19:02:58 -0300
Subject: Re: Tighten Balancer? 

>
>Hello,
>
>Anyone have any tips on how to tighten the harmonic balancer?  The spec says
>210 to 300 ft-lbs.  Mondello says 160 minimum with Locktite.  But how do I keep
>the engine from turning over?  I tried to wedge a block of wood between the
>ground and one of the screws which hold the pulley on, but the car just rises
>up and spins the balancer over the wood!  Even with my full weight on the
>fender.  So if anyone knows of a better way, please let me know!!!  
>
there is a great way to do this. You MUST be careful when you do this proceedure though. Pull the inspection cover on the transmission off, and wedge a LARGE screw driver or a tire iron into the teeth of the flexplate/flywheel and gently rotate the engine with the balancer bolt so it stops against the block. You can then get on the balancer bolt with a large pipe on your torque wrench and then can apply at least 200+ ft. lbs. of torque plus locktite.

Jim Chermack, Virginia Beach, VA (804)474-0869 



>Thanks a lot,
>Tony
>
>
>
John T. Blair  WA4OHZ          email:  jblair@nhr.com
Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (804) 495-8229

48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget  65 Morgan 4/4 Series V
     75 Bricklin SV1   77 Spitfire

------------------------------

From: GUEISEPPI THE BARBER <JJF96@uno.cc.geneseo.edu>
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 15:59:54 -0300
Subject: Re: Who is interested

joe ferrero
13 rorbach lane
geneseo, ny 14454
(716) 243-3437

i say,  two groups is a great idea.  if you want performance and resto.
subscribe to both,  but with it split.... you can get and read what you 
need.   so vote...

2 GROUPS!!!  (subscribe to 1 or the other or both!)

- --joe

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 19:44:37 -0300
Subject: How to remove G-Body dash... 

This is directed towards Ed Atlee, but I think it will help others out also.
 

How to remove a gauge cluster from a '78 to '87 Olds Cutlass (G-Body)

1.  The first step is to remove the 2 pieces of woodgrain trim, the one on
the left with the headlight switch and the on the right with the 2 vents.
 These are sometimes tricky to get out and it should be done on a warm day.
 It you turn the vent all the way to one side and pull out with your fingers,
they usually pop out.  Once you get them out you can see the U shaped clips
that hold them in and you can get an idea of what you are up against next
time...

2.  The next step involves removing the 7 screws that hold the dash in place.
 4 are located on the bottom and 3 are located under the top (1 on the left
side, 2 on the right side).  A 9/32" will remove these but be careful with
the top ones because I once donated a nice new Craftsmen socket to my heater
vent...  (which I found 3 years later...)  After these are removed, the dash
can be removed.  If you have a column shifter, its easier to put the shifter
in drive so the shifter is out of the way.

3. The third step involves cars with a column shifter only (and possibly
Hurst Olds - does the Lighting Rods have there own gear selection indicator
or is it located in the dash like a car with a column shift???)  Remove with
the trim piece located under the steering column.  It should be held on with
4 phillips screws and 2 9/32" screws underneath.  The 9/32" screws are for
the vent.  Now you can see a black clip that is connected to the underneath
of the steering column.  Pry this off with a screw driver being careful not
to mar the plastic.  This is used to move the gear selector is the gauge
cluster.

4.  The gauge cluster is held in place with 4 1/4" screws.  Remove these and
you should be able to pull the cluster out about 1" or so.  The only thing
holding it in now is the speedometer cable, which has a clip holding it in
place instead of the earlier threaded design. 

       a. If you have cruise, remove the cable from the servo that is located
on the drivers side inner fender and push back into the car.  Your dash
should pop right out.  (I usually place a towel or rag on the column so the
gauge cluster doesn't scratch it.

       b. If you dont have cruise, good luck!!!! No, just kidding.  go under
the hood and find the speedo cable and push it into that dash as far as you
can (which will probably be 1" or less)  Now reach behind the gauge cluster
and locate where the cable connects.  You should feel a 'lever' on top and
you should push this in, or towards the back of the car.  You will feel the
cable release.  (Note:  Hopefully you have small hands........)

5.  If you car is 80 or newer, you will be able to pull the cluster out about
10" or so and you will see a 3 wire lead that is conencted just to the side
of where the speedo cable connects.  There is a small screw (I can't remember
the size know...)  which you should remove.  These wires are for an optical
sensor that lets the computer know the speedo is spinning and how fast.  

6.  There you go...  Know as the Hayes and Chilton manuals say, to install,
reverse order or removal!  But there is some more:  When you go to hook up
the clip to the steering colomn for the gear indicator, you will have to
adjust it.  Shift the tranny into P R N D 2 1 and notice the placement of the
indicator.  You can move the placement of the clip to adjust where the little
indicator is.  This might also help some guys whose cars say they are in
Reverse but actually neutral and so on...

7.  Finally, if you have any more questions, drop me a line and I will help
you out!  I hoped this helped... Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com 

------------------------------

From: urbanch@magi.com (Chris Urban)
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 19:48:55 -0300
Subject: Re: Tighten Balancer? 

Only problem with this is that you can bend your flexplate just enough to
throw your balance out, they all after all quite thin.


>there is a great way to do this. You MUST be careful when you do this
proceedure though. Pull the inspection cover on the transmission off, and
wedge a LARGE screw driver or a tire iron into the teeth of the
flexplate/flywheel and gently rotate the engine with the balancer bolt so it
stops against the block. You can then get on the balancer bolt with a large
pipe on your torque wrench and then can apply at least 200+ ft. lbs. of
torque plus locktite.
>
>Jim Chermack, Virginia Beach, VA (804)474-0869 
>
>
>
>>Thanks a lot,
>>Tony
>>
>>
>>
>John T. Blair  WA4OHZ          email:  jblair@nhr.com
>Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (804) 495-8229
>
>48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget  65 Morgan 4/4 Series V
>     75 Bricklin SV1   77 Spitfire
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 20:05:54 -0300
Subject: PS110 Spring... 

Ok, I need some help on one of Mondello's 'fine' products...  If anybody has
Mondello's catalog, I'm sure you've seen that all his oil pumps come with the
PS110 spring (the dual spring to raise your pressure 10-15 lbs...)  

So I bought this last year and installed it in a stock Melling oil pump and
it didn't do a damn thing.  At 2500 rpms, I still had exactly 39 lbs of oil
pressure.  It didn't change a bit.  I installed it wrong the first time
(which we won't get into, but I have a nice "smooth" Fram PH25 if anybody
would like to see it...)  So I called Big Joe, and he made it sound like I
was the dummest guy on earth...  But anyway, I thought his 1"x2" instruction
sheet on how to install it was pretty vauge.  So how about some help.

Here are some technical drawings...

The way I have it installed now...

   -----------------------                              ----------
   PUMP   |||||||||||(SPRING)|||||||||||||||||    (CUP  ) |  COTTER PIN
   -----------------------                              ----------

OR  

   -----------------------                              ----------
   PUMP   |||||||||||(SPRING)|||||||||||||||||    |  (CUP)  COTTER PIN
   -----------------------                              ----------

In other words, does the opening of the cup face the spring or does the
opening of the cup face the cotter pin??  Any help would be appreciated...

Oh, and by the way, I have decided to put the 71 Toro Pan on my 403 that's in
my 79 Cutlass.  The pan will not go below the frame so I decided to go for
it.  So I bought a Melling Hi Volume oil pump from Summit and the PU-1 bolt
on pick up for the Toro pan from Mondello. I was thinking about using the PS
110 spring it it.  Any thoughts???


           

------------------------------

From: Doug McClanahan <mcclan@wsdot.wa.gov>
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 21:10:59 -0300
Subject: (no subject)

I have been reading discussions on the list about people trying to get 
more oil pressure.  Is this a Tim Alan "more power" thing or is it realy 
necessary to have ol'faithful like oil pressure?  

The reason that I ask is that my know-it-all dad who used to race 
hupmobiles back in the 50's says that too much oil presure on stock 
cranks will tend to blow the crank to one side, causing the main bearings 
to wear out early.  Is my dad full of @#$@ or does he know best?

..and what is the proper amount of oil pressure anyway?  My 
racer-X-wannabee bother says that I should aim for about 20 lbs per 1000 
rpm.  Is he close to being right (for once)?

By the way, I have a 1987 Toy*ta Supra with 140k miles (and about 5 lbs 
of oil pressure at idle) - it's for sale - anybody want it? (Heheheheeee)

Doug
mcclan@wsdot.wa.gov

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 14:21:51 -0300
Subject: Re: How to remove G-Body dash... 

     Hmm..  I've always used a 7mm socket, which seemed to work fine.  I 
     was under the impression that a lot of the dash is metric.  I know of 
     some 10mm bolts around there too.
     
     Yes, the H/O gear selector is in the speedometer like any other 
     Cutlass w/ full gauges.  Matter of fact, the steering column actually 
     rotates when you shift gears, although nothing is attached to it.  I 
     had to laugh first time I noticed it do that.
     
     I made myself a "tool" to remove the fake-wood panels.  Never thought 
     about removing the vents, duh!  My "tool" is actually a slot cover 
     from a PC (any piece of sheet metal should work) with the end bent 
     into a small hook, and the rest slopes away so you can grab it.  Put 
     electrical tape on the hook so you don't scratch things.  It works 
     okay, but the panels still aren't a cinch to get out.
     
     Tom L.

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: How to remove G-Body dash...
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    4/17/96 4:21 PM
     
2.  The next step involves removing the 7 screws that hold the dash in place.
 4 are located on the bottom and 3 are located under the top (1 on the left
side, 2 on the right side).  A 9/32" will remove these but be careful with 
the top ones because I once donated a nice new Craftsmen socket to my heater 
vent...
     
     3. The third step involves cars with a column shifter only (and 
     possibly Hurst Olds - does the Lighting Rods have there own gear 
     selection indicator or is it located in the dash like a car with a 
     column shift???)

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 13:22:06 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: 455 Valve Job 

     Uhh.. off the valve stems?  Don't you mean off the *pushrods*?


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: 455 Valve Job
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    4/17/96 3:52 PM

First, it's best to have both done at the same time, as long as you can afford 
it . The big thing is that if they (the machine shop decks the heads the MUST 
take t he same amount off the vale stems or you will wipe out a set of lifters.
This is do to the non-adjustable vavle train that the OLDS engines use.

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 22:51:01 -0300
Subject: Oil pressure vs. volume 

          I've also been following the oil pressure discussion.  I 
          always thought excess oil pressure was detrimental to 
          producing horsepower (gotta turn that pump somehow).  I've 
          operated under the assumption that you want to increase oil 
          VOLUME, not pressure (assuming pressure is adequate for 
          motor life...of course, what's adequate?).
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: Scott D Ballentine <sb7k+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 22:11:31 -0300
Subject: Re: How to remove G-Body dash...

Excerpts: 17-Apr-96 Re: How to remove G-Body da.. by "Tom Lentz"@teknon.com 
>      Yes, the H/O gear selector is in the speedometer like any other 
>      Cutlass w/ full gauges.  Matter of fact, the steering column actually 
>      rotates when you shift gears, although nothing is attached to it.  I 
>      had to laugh first time I noticed it do that.

Hmm, my Cutlass does that too - although it's just a plain old T-handle
floor shifter.  And now that I think about it, I have a friend with an
old Pontiac LeMans whose floor shifter went nuts - something was bent or
something like that - and he'd actually have to turn the column with his
hands to get it into gear.  Does it just make things easier/cheaper at
the factory to have the column hooked up whether it's a floor or column
shifter, or is there another reason for this?  Just curious.

    -Scott Ballentine
     sb7k@andrew.cmu.edu
     Carnegie Mellon University
     School of Computer Science

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 22:22:37 -0300
Subject: Re: Misc. Olds design questions/comments 

In a message dated 96-04-17 01:14:38 EDT, you write:

>Does the rear of the new Aurora remind anyone else of a '66 Toro's
>taillights? (that was my first thought)

Yes, also reminds me of mid '70s Firebirds.

>Did early-80's diesel Cutlasses have diesel-specific taillights? (I thought
I
>saw 3 vertical bars on each side on the diesel models)

No, 2 section and 3 section tail lights were according to body styly and
trim.  Coupes had 1 or 2 sections (depending on year), sedans had 2 or 3
sections (depending on year and trim level).
>
>On the '76-'77 Cutlasses, what determined whether the car had the
>squared-front grill or the sloped grill? Mom's Vista Cruiser had the squared
>grill, but a friend's had the grill that slanted back.

I think only the Cutlass S (and Base Cutlass, if there was such a beast) had
the slanted grill.  Oh, and the 442 package had it as well.  These models
also had the fastback roofline, where the Supremes had a more notchback-like
roofline.

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 22:22:41 -0300
Subject: Re: Misc. Olds design questions/comments 

In a message dated 96-04-17 13:08:32 EDT, you write:

>Another question, then; what years were the "fastback" Cutlasses of that
>generation produced? Was there also a notchback produced at the same time? I
>remember the show car with the Toro 455 (403) under that back window. Has
>that show car been crushed, or is it still around?

Fastback coupes were available for '78 thru '80.  Fastback sedan were
available for '78 & '79.  I think they were all called Salons.  Most of the
people I've talked to think they are ugly as sin, but if I ever found one in
nice shape...   They sedans were replaced for '80 with the Malibu sedan body.
 Notchback Cutlass Supreme & Calais coupes were available at the same time as
the fastbacks.

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 22:22:46 -0300
Subject: Re: Misc. Olds design questions/comments 

In a message dated 96-04-17 19:27:13 EDT, you write:

>OK, no the slant-grill car was not a VC, but a regular Cutlass; but I kind
of
>thought it was a Supreme. When did all RWD Cutlasses become Supremes?

That's a loaded question.  RWD Cutlass Coupes were all Supremes & Supreme
Broughams (except Calais, Hurst & 442) starting in 1981.  RWD Cutlass Sedans
were available as a Base and a Supreme up until 1987.

Maybe your friends slant-nose was a Supreme with an accident replaced S nose.
 I used to work with a guy who had a friend that had an old 98.  His wife
toasted the front end and he couldn't find a nice 98 clip to repair it, so he
put an 88 clip on instead.  He called it a 93.

Paul

------------------------------

From: isagil <isagil@CAM.ORG>
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 02:31:35 -0300
Subject: Displacement

Just curious...

Why did general motors <<limited>> the displacement for the Olds motors 
to 455, just like the Pontiac and Buick engines? Then, there's Ch*vr*l*t, 
at 454, and there's Cadillac at 500. What was their policy regarding 
displacement within GM? 

What was the first 455 engine - Buick, Pontiac or Olds?

Was there ever a law (If there were, I think it was dropped during the 
mid-sixties) to limit the displacement for the engines of <<mid-size>> 
cars?

Just curious.

<isagil@cam.org>

------------------------------

From: isagil <isagil@CAM.ORG>
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 02:38:57 -0300
Subject: 12-bolt rear end

Do all the GM) 12-bolt differentials have a 8.875" ring gear?

Just curious.

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 23:34:34 -0300
Subject: Re:  Harmonic balancer bolt removal/installation 

At 12.38 04,17,96 -0300, you wrote:
>          BTW, I still stand by the Craftsman guarantee.  Used that 
>          same clothes pole and breaker bar to attempt to loosen the 
>          flywheel bolt on a neighbor's VW engine (250++ ft-lb nominal 
>          torque).  He steadied the motor while I (literally) jumped 
>          on the end of the pipe...Sear replaced the breaker bar, no 
>          questions asked.  The neighbor took the motor to a nearby 
>          service station, which used an impact wrench to finally 
>          loosen the bolt.
>          
>          Joe Padavano
>          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

speaking of the guarantee...my grandfather had a set of craftsman tools, one
of the ratchets just broke...sears took it back w/o question...the only
thing the clerk said was, "How old is this thing"...the craftsman was barely
readable...my answer, "older than you and me both"
                    zack
      ___
     /. .\
    _\_*_/_                     -<Buddha>-
   / /   \ \                   Buddha@itw.com
   \_\___/_/            HTTP://www2.itw.com/~buddha/
  /___\_/___\ "That which does not kill us makes us stronger"
 *************

------------------------------

From: Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 23:44:50 -0300
Subject: Re: (no subject)

>The reason that I ask is that my know-it-all dad who used to race 
>hupmobiles back in the 50's says that too much oil presure on stock 
>cranks will tend to blow the crank to one side, causing the main bearings 
>to wear out early.  Is my dad full of @#$@ or does he know best?


Sorry to say, yes he is full of "@#$@" as you put it. The 
counterweights on the crank provide much more force than that little 
bit of oil pressure...


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Michael R. Hall                            Ortonville, Michigan
E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com
Owner: 1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
Owner: 1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...
Owner: 1994 GMC Sonoma Club Coupe SLS Pickup, soon to be "Bravadaized".
         Brought to you by a Apple Power Macintosh 7100/80
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

------------------------------

From: Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 23:44:48 -0300
Subject: Re: ZA-12 Heat Riser Filling

>Yes I've used it and its crap. The hucks of SOLID metal he sends you as good
>as any you'd pick right off the ground. It would take about 1 inch of
>grinding all around to get them even close. Then you should get them secured
>somehow (welding is good but not everyone can get access to a good cast iron
>welder -- and if you do have him weld the entire whole up and forget about
>mondello) otherwise they will tick like crazy in your engine from the 
>vibration.


Chris,

I think you are confusing the solid heat riser block-offs with the 
ZA-12. I have used the block offs, I didn't think it was a big deal to 
use but the ZA-12 is MELTED and then you port the leftover excess 
material. A better way to do it and slightly more expensive...

For what it's worth...


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Michael R. Hall                            Ortonville, Michigan
E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com
Owner: 1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
Owner: 1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...
Owner: 1994 GMC Sonoma Club Coupe SLS Pickup, soon to be "Bravadaized".
         Brought to you by a Apple Power Macintosh 7100/80
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

------------------------------

From: Jeff Hunter <jchunter@xcelco.on.ca>
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 23:49:34 -0300
Subject: Re: Displacement 

At 02:31 AM 4/18/96 -0300, you wrote:

>Was there ever a law (If there were, I think it was dropped during the 
>mid-sixties) to limit the displacement for the engines of <<mid-size>> 
>cars?
>
><isagil@cam.org>
>
There was a limit at General Motors only, that an intermediate size car not
have a displacement more than 400 c.i.  This is why Olds went to Hurst in
'68 to get the 455 put in the cutlass. There was no rule about selling these
cars, just making them. Is this right folks?

Jeff Hunter
jchunter@xcelco.on.ca 

------------------------------

From: Tony <3CQ9DELBALSO@vms.csd.mu.edu>
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 00:08:05 -0300
Subject: Re: How to remove G-Body dash...

A buddy of mine in high school had an old car, maybe a Malibu (can't remember,
didn't pay much attention to cars in those days) which would start by turning
the steering column.  Didn't need the key at all! 
Tony


Excerpts: 17-Apr-96 Re: How to remove G-Body da.. by "Tom Lentz"@teknon.com 
>      Yes, the H/O gear selector is in the speedometer like any other 
>      Cutlass w/ full gauges.  Matter of fact, the steering column actually 
>      rotates when you shift gears, although nothing is attached to it.  I 
>      had to laugh first time I noticed it do that.

Hmm, my Cutlass does that too - although it's just a plain old T-handle
floor shifter.  And now that I think about it, I have a friend with an
old Pontiac LeMans whose floor shifter went nuts - something was bent or
something like that - and he'd actually have to turn the column with his
hands to get it into gear.  Does it just make things easier/cheaper at
the factory to have the column hooked up whether it's a floor or column
shifter, or is there another reason for this?  Just curious.

    -Scott Ballentine
     sb7k@andrew.cmu.edu
     Carnegie Mellon University
     School of Computer Science

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 02:54:35 -0300
Subject: Re: Displacement

No clue as to why the 455 Ci cap on BOP engines, but the Cadi is assumed
to have the larger engine because of what it is, a Cadi, GM's top of the
line vehicle (engine size and most definitely weight!).  Up until 1969
General Motors corporate edict was no engine larger than 400ci in a
midsize (hence, 400 Buick, Olds, Pontiac, 396 Chevy in A-bodies), however
the Hurst Olds did have a 455 from 1968.  It is generally accepted that
these cars were assembled at an outside location after the cars came off
the production line but rumor has it that the 455's actually were factory
installed. According to my TRW parts catalog, Olds began using 455ci 
engines in 1968, at which time Buick was using a 430, Pontiac a 428, 
Chevy a 427, and Cadillac a 472, so that would make Olds the first 455ci 
engine.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 02:56:54 -0300
Subject: Re: Displacement

Oh yeah, the 400ci-midsize edict was dropped in 1970, when 455's of all 
kinds found their way into midsizes.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 02:57:39 -0300
Subject: Re: 12-bolt rear end

I believe only Chevy 12-bolts are 8.875.  The Olds 12-bolt axle is a 
10-bolt ring gear with a different size.  Dont know offhand which it is.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 04:18:31 -0300
Subject: VICA Engine Blow up 

     Well, our VICA week is finally over.  As every year in the past, we
held a Diesel vs. Gas engine blowup contest.  This year was a 6.2 Diesel vs.
~the~ original Cadillac Northstar prototype (I was under the initial
assumption that it was an Aurora, but I was corrected.  ~whew~!)  Actually,
they are the same engines, for all practical purposes.  (Olds made it, then
sold it to Caddy.)  
     Anyway, the Northstar ran (No radiators_) for about six minutes then
quit.  The diesel ran for less than two!  (both wide open, no load)  After
the diesel died, the Northstar fired up again, and ran for close to another
twenty minutes!  Great show!  Fireballs from the exhaust filling up the
skies.  It was cool!  I got some good pics of it, and I'll get them on my
page (if they turn out!)  and let you all see that.  (I don't think I'd be
able to get the video in there, though!)
     Just wanted to share that info with everyone.  Later!
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 04:18:37 -0300
Subject: Re: How to remove G-Body dash... 

>Hmm, my Cutlass does that too - although it's just a plain old T-handle
>floor shifter.  And now that I think about it, I have a friend with an
>old Pontiac LeMans whose floor shifter went nuts - something was bent or
>something like that - and he'd actually have to turn the column with his
>hands to get it into gear.  Does it just make things easier/cheaper at
>the factory to have the column hooked up whether it's a floor or column
>shifter, or is there another reason for this?  Just curious.

     I think the main purpose of this was to retain the reverse light switch
and the nuetral safety switch that are found at the base of the column.  The
"You-can't-lock-the-column-unless-you're-in-Park,-idiot" feature may have
played a role, here, also.  :)
     As for cost, I don't know, because they used a different column for
these models.  The shift lever extrusion is not there, so that lower portion
is completely different.  The in-column shift gate is not active, either (it
may be gone, or it may just not be in effect, since the shift lever is not
there, and that is what rides in the gate...  No matter...
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 09:37:43 -0300
Subject: Steering Column Design (was: G-Body Dash Removal) 

          
          The apparently useless rotating part of the steering column 
          first appeared in 1969 along with the locking steering 
          column.  Keep in mind that most cars built were column shift 
          cars, so the design was optimized for this configuration.  
          The rotating part would normally have a shift lever sticking 
          out of it, with a shift tube running down the column around 
          the outside of the actual steering shaft.  This tube has an 
          arm at the bottom (on the other side of the firewall) which 
          then connects to the shift linkage going to the 
          transmission.  This is all tied together inside the column 
          so that with the key removed and the shifter in park, 
          everything is locked.  In addition, this shift tube also 
          operates the neutral safety/back-up light switch, which is 
          mounted on the top of the column, under the dash.
          
          Having already designed this column, how do you maximize 
          parts commonality (and thus reduce cost) for the floor shift 
          models?  Since the law required locking the shift linkage 
          anyway, simply retaining the column shift hardware and 
          linkage made this easy.  GM simply left off the 
          column-mounted shift lever (and obviously used a sleeve on 
          the column that didn't have the hole for the lever) but 
          retained all the linkage and locking mechanism.  Thus this 
          part of the steering column still rotates as though it had a 
          column shifter.
          
          A look under the car will show that floor shift trannies 
          also have the equalizer linkage which goes across to the 
          frame and connects to the base of the steering column.  This 
          is the first piece to go when installing headers, as it is 
          in the way.  Unfortunately, removal of the equalizer linkage 
          prevents the neutral safety/back-up light switch from 
          working also.  I solved this problem by grasping and 
          rotating the column to turn the back-up lights on and off - 
          at least until I have the time to install a 
          transmission-mounted switch.
          
          Note that if you do remove this linkage to install headers, 
          you must make sure that the column is rotated to the fully 
          counterclockwise position or you will not be able to rotate 
          the ignition key to the lock position (the column still 
          thinks the car is in gear).  I solved this on another 442 by 
          drilling a hole radially between the outer steering column 
          housing and the shift tube at the base and pinning the two 
          together with a screw.
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: johnspr@ix.netcom.com (JOHN PRESTON )
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 08:40:04 -0300
Subject: Re: Misc. Olds design questions/comments

You wrote: 
>
>>>4 doors have taillights like that.
>>
>>OK, *that* was where I saw them then.
>>
>>Another question, then; what years were the "fastback" Cutlasses of 
that
>>generation produced?
>
>Uh, '78 to '80, something like that? Style-wise or sales-wise (or 
both),

.......Sorry, the years were '78-'79; no notchbacks made either year,  
2Dr *OR* 4Dr.  I have '79 sales brochure showing a 442 model - it was 
your average decaled "hi-perf" model of that era featuring nothing 
special functionally.

>I think they were dogs. They had, BTW, the same taillights as the 
regular
>sedans. Don't know if they were _exactly_ the same parts, but the 
styling
>was the same.
>
>>Was there also a notchback produced at the same time?
>
>If you mean the "regular" 4-door, I'm pretty sure it was. (Oh, no,  

------------------------------

From: Willie <aceface@ohana.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 09:08:42 -0300
Subject: Thanks!

I just thgought I'd drop a letter to everyone to thank everyone for 
their advise. I got my radiator recored today and dropped it in. My car 
is back on the streets again. Once again the streets are not safe!=) 

Willie!

'57 Olds Super 88

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 10:28:01 -0300
Subject: Re: Displacement 

At 02:31 AM 4/18/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Just curious...
>
>Why did general motors <<limited>> the displacement for the Olds motors 
>to 455, just like the Pontiac and Buick engines? Then, there's Ch*vr*l*t, 
>at 454, and there's Cadillac at 500. What was their policy regarding 
>displacement within GM? 
>
>What was the first 455 engine - Buick, Pontiac or Olds?
>
>Was there ever a law (If there were, I think it was dropped during the 
>mid-sixties) to limit the displacement for the engines of <<mid-size>> 
>cars?
>
>Just curious.
>
><isagil@cam.org>


I don't know a whole lot about this, and I don't know about who had
the first 455, but I believe a lot of what went into GM's limiting
its applications of the Olds 455 was concern about insurability of the
cars.  Buyers of Cutlasses and 442s with the 455 were facing huge
bills from insurance companies when trying to buy liability insurance.
GM began limiting the availability of this engine in the smaller cars.

The whole muscle car concept began to decline in the late 60s mainly 
because of the problem of the high cost to insure these cars.

I don't think there's ever been a law to limit engine displacements.

I think Cadillac had a 500 because it was Cadillac, and they had to
have the biggest of everything.  Of course, they generally had bigger,
heavier cars, but I think it was primarily a marketing thing.  After 
all, you couldn't very well have the flagship marque of General Motors
be in second place in ANYTHING to another marque from the same
manufacturer!


************************************************
Daniel A. Gulino
Associate Professor and Graduate Chairman
Department of Chemical Engineering
Ohio University
Athens, Ohio  45701-2979
(614) 593-1495
(614) 593-0873 (fax)
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://www.ent.ohiou.edu/che/faculty/gulino.html
************************************************

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 02:17:02 -0300
Subject: Off the Subject

I hereby promise to keep this off the group in the future.  BUT..

I have two OTHER (wife's) cars that I'm looking for help with:

1) 1974 V*lvo 144.  Bosch fuel injection problem.  NON-computerized 
   FI (electromechanical vs electronic).  Getting way too much fuel,
   running MUCHO rich like a stuck choke.  Fuel distributer seems OK 
   but the thingy that supposedly modulates it may be wierd.

2) 1984 Linc*ln C*ntinential.  Air suspension problem.  Air springs 
   (like a moving van, no coils).  Looses air when sitting USUALLY (not 
   always).  Seems to be connected mostly to the right rear.  Can find 
   no obvious leaks.  Could there be a check valve not seating properly
   that allows it to bleed down?

If anyone has any experience with either of these two cars or if you can 
point me in the right direction, I would appreciate if you would respond 
directly to me at edison3@cpeq.com.

Thanks in advance,

The 66 Toro and Mike (and Jean's V*lvo and her Linc*ln)


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 11:55:24 -0300
Subject: Re: Off the Subject 

> 1) 1974 V*lvo 144.

> 2) 1984 Linc*ln C*ntinential.

> If anyone has any experience with either of these two cars or if you can 
> point me in the right direction, I would appreciate if you would respond 
> directly to me at edison3@cpeq.com.

Most junkyards will be happy to tow these things away.  I'm pretty sure
(with the V*lvo, anyway), that it would be more cost effective than trying
to fix them.

Surprise her.  Get rid of that junk, and leave a Vista Cruiser in the 
driveway.

See, I deleted most of the original post before adding my useless comments.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-8007    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 05:52:14 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: (no subject) 

     The danger of going with a high pressure/volume oil pump is oil 
     starvation.  You should have a larger (toro) oil pan and you should 
     install the oil restrictors if you do so.  If you don't, at sustained 
     high-rpm the engine can pump oil into the valve covers faster than it 
     drains back down (I hear olds engines have an abnormally small 
     drainback hole).  All your oil ends up in the top of the engine and 
     you suffer bottom-end failure.  I suppose you could also enlarge the 
     drainback hole, which seems like a better solution to me.
     
     I have a friend who did this with a Ford 289 he just rebuilt with a 
     high-volume/high-pressure oil pump and then went out and did over 
     100mph for about 15 minutes.  He had to rebuild it again (I didn't say 
     he was a *smart* friend, he was driving a Ford after all).
     
     Tom L.

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    4/17/96 8:22 PM

     >too much oil presure on stock >cranks will tend to blow the crank to 
     >one side, causing the main bearings to wear out early.  
     
Sorry to say, yes he is full of "@#$@" as you put it. The 
counterweights on the crank provide much more force than that little 
bit of oil pressure...
     

------------------------------

From: urbanch@magi.com (Chris Urban)
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 14:42:35 -0300
Subject: Re: (no subject) 

Well oil pressure is a funny thing. Its nice to have alot because chances
are that parts will not run dry if there is constant supply of oil and a
high pressure pump helps acheive this( of course having more oil for it to
pump also is important) but there is such a thing as too much pressure. I
have heard people say that the crank may blow to one side but have never
seen that kind of pressure in an Olds. As for pressure if you had 20 lbs for
every 1000 rpm at 6000 rpm you'd have 120psi then your oil filter would be
on the moon. 10lbs per 1000 is dam good.


>I have been reading discussions on the list about people trying to get 
>more oil pressure.  Is this a Tim Alan "more power" thing or is it realy 
>necessary to have ol'faithful like oil pressure?  
>
>The reason that I ask is that my know-it-all dad who used to race 
>hupmobiles back in the 50's says that too much oil presure on stock 
>cranks will tend to blow the crank to one side, causing the main bearings 
>to wear out early.  Is my dad full of @#$@ or does he know best?
>
>..and what is the proper amount of oil pressure anyway?  My 
>racer-X-wannabee bother says that I should aim for about 20 lbs per 1000 
>rpm.  Is he close to being right (for once)?
>
>By the way, I have a 1987 Toy*ta Supra with 140k miles (and about 5 lbs 
>of oil pressure at idle) - it's for sale - anybody want it? (Heheheheeee)
>
>Doug
>mcclan@wsdot.wa.gov
>
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #151
********************************

