
oldsmobile-digest           Monday, 3 June 1996        Volume 01 : Number 193


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 01:20:45 -0300
Subject: I need 403 help... 

How about some help?  I went to replace the rear main on my 403 last week and
it turns the out bearings (both rod and mains) were wore after only 15000
miles.  So to add to my daze of confusion, it turns out that 5 rods were
pressed on the pistons 180 degrees differently than the other 3.  So I
understood that the rod bearing tangs faced the oil pan rail.  But after
receiving Mondello's tech manual today, it states that the tangs of the
bearings face the opposite piston or towards the inside on the block.

This leads me to this question:  The rod caps have a slight angle (approx.
45) on one side.  These caps are different that the common 350/455 rod caps.
 Do the angles face the crank journals or face each other.  (/- -\ or -\ /-
for lack of a better description).  If the angles face the crank journals,
the bearing tangs face the pan rail, and if they face each other, the tangs
face the inside.

I'm in a bind because I just dropped off 5 pistons on Friday to have the rods
reversed and it seems that maybe I should have dropped off the other 3....

Thanks for th help... Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com     

------------------------------

From: Corey42508@aol.com
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 04:18:07 -0300
Subject: Fuel injection 

Does anyone know if there are aftermarket fuel injection systems (TPI,
EFI...etc)  for 455 engines? Or does anyone know of anyone who will design
and build them. I have a 69 455 that I'd like to fuel inject.  No Holley
Projection systems. Is it possible to modify TPI system off a chevy 454 to
fit an Oldsmobile? 

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 07:40:54 -0300
Subject: Re: A decent donor car?

On Sat, 1 Jun 1996, Bill Goodnight wrote:
> I am torn.  The last potential donor I found was a '75 "98" with "J" heads.
> I am not planning on racing my car, I just want reasonable HP and
> dependability.  Both cars are still available.  The "98" also has a good
> tilt column and power front seat I could use.  Some folks here tell me that
> I might be better off with the "J" heads (hardened valve seats) and the
> lower compression for unleaded gas.  After driving both cars, which are
> tanks, I think either would make my comparatively featherweight coupe fly.
> What do you think?

I don't know if there were any significant quality differences in the 455 
between '69 and '75. The '69 heads would be preferred from a performance 
aspect but as you say they don't have the hardened valve seats. I'm not 
sure how big an issue this is for most people with a hobby car that isn't 
driven hard on a regular basis. The '69 may not have valve rotators 
either which I think arrived in '70 (?). The '75 should have an HEI 
instead of the points distributor on the '69, an advantage if you plan to 
reuse the original distributor. If the '75 already has a 4-barrel carb 
that's just one less thing you have to do yourself.

I'm guessing that either one of these would do the job. If you're not 
looking to rebuild the thing before you install it, why not just pick the 
one that runs best and seems to be in the best shape. 

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 07:59:57 -0300
Subject: '68 SSII Wheels

On Sat, 1 Jun 1996, Lloyd Culp wrote:
> The real thing for 1968-74 have centers with 4 screws holding them to 
> the wheel.  The later versions have snap on center caps that are 
> smaller and fit only that version of the earlier wheel.  They were 
> usually a cast metal gray color but my 1968 Oldsmobile brochure called 
> "A catalog of the most importnt sporting events of 1968:" dated 8-67 
> shows red painted ones.  I didn't know about the '68's having no trim at 
> the vents, but that same 1968 Olds brochure shows the trim on the wheel 
> vents. .

Those early centers have 5 screws that hold the cap to the wheel. Mine
kept backing out and the caps kept getting loose. A pain. Threadlocker is
a must. Never heard of '68 wheels being any color other than cast gray
(except for 14x7" Hurst/Olds chrome jobbies, worth big $ now). Size is
14x6". Many cars of that vintage now sport later-model 14x7 wheels. A dead
giveaway is the deep trim ring they will need. Looks good but not
"original" if that's important to you. If you have colored wheels that's
likely what you have. 

What looks like trim on the vent holes is silver paint. I have seen 
nothing that indicates Olds offered the bezel trim in '68 on any model. 
After having painted mine I can understand why Olds probably decided the 
snap-on trim pieces around those holes were a lot easier to produce.

Speaking of these wheels, anyone have any good screw-on SSII center caps 
for sale? I know they are still available from the catalog places but 
they're pricey. Mine could use freshening and if anyone has some in good 
shape (no pitting on the chrome) let me know.

Finally, a question: here in town there's a mid-80s 4-door Cutlass
taxicab(!) I see regularly that has the best-looking Olds wheels I've ever
seen. They appear to be the SSII or III stamping, but are chrome (no trim
ring) and have some black paint that makes them look very unique. What
were these originally called and what were they used on? If I had an '80s
2-door Cutlass I think I'd make they guy an offer for them - I would
*have* to have a set of these. 

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 11:50:02 -0300
Subject: Sat stuffs

> Fel-Pro.  It had a two piece neoprene rear main seal included in it.  One
> tip I got from that boat engine mechanic uncle of mine was to install the
> two halves of the seal offset from the surfaces of the block and cap to
> prevent oil leakage from between the mating surfaces of the block and cap.

That tip is in THE technical manual, too... -Chris-

> From: Willie Fruean <aceface@ohana.com>
> Subject: Re: Engine Swap
> No peter! Don't do it! Don't you dare put a Chevy in your Olds!!!!

Uh, didn't the original post say "small block 350" or something like that?
What, is there only ONE company that ever made a 'small block 350' ?! Maybe he
meant an OLDS 350 SB... -Chris-

>      Of course, it is always handy to know ~exactly~ what it is we just smoked

"what you been smokin', boy?'
'well, a few Mustangs, Firebirds, Camaros, the usual...'
  :)  Chris

>      (Oh, for the super challenged, those say Beat Yer Ford, and Put You In
> Extasy, in case anyone doesn't catch on right away...)

That's funny, I thought the BT UR 4D meant "Blowtie, you are 40 [years old]"!
Since it did turn 40 last year... -Chris-

> From: idaholc@primenet.com (Bill Goodnight)
>
> I may have found a decent donor car for a 455 and TH400 for my '49 Coupe.
> It is a '69 Delta
> 88 4dr.  The engine casting is marked, 396021F.  According to the FAQ, this
> is the most common engine.  It is a 2bbl, but that can be fixed.   It runs
> great, and the transmission seems tight.
>
> The guy wants $600, but I think I can get it for $500.  Do you think I have
> a decent starting point?  I will rebuild of course.   I suppose the heads
> will also be of a standard type!??!  Will they likely be "G" heads?  Is
> anything else on the car of value as parts?  The grille, front bumper and
> hood are in decent shape.  Do they interchange with parts from cars of interes
> Bill Goodnight

Excellent choice, next best thing to a Toronado engine. Get it. Most likely has
the Nodular iron crank. 9:1, maybe even 10.25:1 compression. A good cam.
C-394548 heads with small valves.
  Body parts good for them kinda cars only. One critical element: steering
linkage if OK, even if not for core. When our 68 98 needed a center link, 'twas
$100 for a *used* one from Halls [heh, RIGHT!], $200 for a new one delivered.
That radiator is probably quite large & useful... big 12-bolt. Too big for
Cutlass size cars, but...
  In short, GET THAT CAR.
Oh, for an intake, go with either aftermarket, original W30, or '70-up 4V, as
the pre-70 4V intakes used a choke coil mounted in the intake... said coil is
rare and expen$ive. Get the carb with a big black round choke coil mounted on
the carb. Or, the Holleys...  -Chris-
  btw, did I mention that you should get that car...

> Subject: Re: 66 conv 442 avail? and more
>
> What a lead, you narrowed it down to an entire state (LOL)!

Well, you know, interested parties can contact me.... -Chris-

> From: glenn connors <gpc442@buffnet.net>
> Subject: overheat...wrong pulleys??
>
>      Still trying to find my overheating cause on the 455ci I just finished
> building.  It has a new 3 core rad., 180 degree stat., new water pump and
> clutch fan ( 5 blade).  I suspect the problem lies in the crank and water
> pump pulley sizes.  Because I had a bare short block to work with I used the

Problem 1: 3 row radiator. Solution- get a 4-row. May require mods to the
mounts to accept it gracefully.

Problem 2: 5-blades of fan. Solution- get a bigger better fan.

What water pump? a "#4" ?? They come in different impeller sizes. The #4 [on
the RH outlet boss] is the way common unit sold for 99% of applications. You
might need a larger impeller unit. Small impeller is 4 to 4.25", larger is
4.75"
  Interestingly, Mondello's TM recommends slowing the coolant flow, by using
smaller impeller and/or cutting out half the blades... Yet the factory used
bigger pumps on bigger engines... I tend to side with the "more flow cools
better" crowd, to a point... I'd believe the curve of cooling ability vs. flow
has a peak or valley where you want to be... that more or less flow is
suboptimal. And that the factory engineers had lots of time/$ to find that
point. But, nothing succeeds like success... so if it WORKS, go w/ it...

> pulleys from the 350 I took out of it.  So at this point the crank pulley is
> the smaller of the two.  If the combination were reversed not only would the
> clutch fan turn faster but it would also increase coolant flow via a faster
> pump speed.

Well... Dr. Olds suggests SLOWING coolant flow, but higher fan speed is no
doubt better... so... small-impeller pump with half fins removed, and
faster-driving pulleys?
  Need to know your WP number or neck height, or pulley numbers to tell what
pulleys would interchange & where to find 'em...
  My database says... 68 Vista 400-2V used 6-7/16 & 7-1/16" Crank & WP pulleys
resp. That's max OD measured to nearest 1/16" with tape measure. That fits on a
5-1/16" neck water pump, I believe. That's a 2-groove pulley measuring 1-7/8"
from mtg surface to front edge, for use on 5" [+/-] WPump.

  Other common WP neck heights are 5-5/8" and 5-15/16" [nearly 6"]. The common
1970-1990 #4 WP is the 5-15/16" unit.
  Other common crank pulley dia's are 7-3/16, 7-7/8, 7-3/8.
  Other common WPPulley dia's are 5-5/8", 7-5/16", 6-3/8", 6-1/16".

Big blocks and older small blocks generally used crank pulleys on the large
side, 7" or more, and WPPulleys of large size, 6" or more.

> (built to '70 specs), it would help immensely.  Any other suggestions or
> comments would be greatly appreciated.  Glenn

An assembly manual would help you greatly. Contact Casteele Automotive,
Lansing... $20 each year.
  I suggest measuring your WP's neck height or getting th ID off it, and/or
msring the pulleys' offset, and manually searching boneyards locally for misc.
pulleys... get a selection. In sets if possible. -Chris-

> I checked the origial stats on that engine...310 HP and 490 lb/ft.  I
> believe those "common" heads only give 9.00:1 compression, where as the
> other 455's of that year that were equipped with a 4 barrel had 10.25:1
> compression.  Output wasn't incredibly more on the 4bbl. though.  I'm in the
> hunt as well...Good luck.
> - -Aaron

Ooooops! It ain't the HEADS that Olds varied to get compression [D heads
notably excepted]- it's the PISTON DISH SIZE.
  He should get that engine... put a cam in it, maybe bump the CR up to
"10.25:1" which REALLY works out to about 9.8:1 w/ no head cuts...
  Hey, Aaron, what you willing to pay for an engine? I have:
1970 455-4V, E heads
1968 Toro 455, BV C heads
1968 98 455, SV C heads
1967 98 425, SV C heads
1971 88 455, no heads?
  etc...

> I am torn.  The last potential donor I found was a '75 "98" with "J" heads.
> I am not planning on racing my car, I just want reasonable HP and
                                                  ^^^^^^^^^^
Well, some of us do not include smog motors' output in the definition of
"reasonable" power, having tasted the magic that comes with compression and a
cam. Right Bob...?

> dependability.  Both cars are still available.  The "98" also has a good
> tilt column and power front seat I could use.  Some folks here tell me that
> I might be better off with the "J" heads (hardened valve seats) and the
> lower compression for unleaded gas.  After driving both cars, which are
> tanks, I think either would make my comparatively featherweight coupe fly.
> What do you think?
> Bill Goodnight

Get the '69 car. Have C heads and Nodular crank. Be happy. -Chris-

> Also, I'm considering replacing the original 260 V8 that's in the car with a 3
50, or other
> larger engine.  Any suggestions?
> Dave

Yeah, a 403, or a 425 or 455. Any of which will tax your car's puny little
radiator. New biggest radiator available, 7-blade fan, good shroud, no problem.
The 78 race car is running a 455 or 425 depending on incarnation. 'Course
there's the subsequent snapping of parts back of the engine...
  How about a nice 403, rebuilt with that $600 forged piston kit, 350 heads for
9:1 compression, an AL intake. Assume $500 for machine work, odds & ends...
$100 to get the 350 heads... $1200 for a FULLY rebuilt 403 with about oh 300
HP... prolly about 400 ft# tork.
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 09:49:25 -0300
Subject: Re: Fuel injection

>Does anyone know if there are aftermarket fuel injection systems (TPI,
>EFI...etc)


I think Dick Miller Racing is selling a direct port system, requires 
extra deep pockets to obtain... Other than that, you are left with TBI's 
like Holley's Pro system. Another place to go would be Barry Grant Fuel 
Systems, Summit Racing sells their stuff.
Good Luck,
Mike


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Michael R. Hall                            Ortonville, Michigan
E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com
Owner: 1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
Owner: 1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...
Owner: 1994 GMC Sonoma Club Coupe SLS Pickup.
         Brought to you by a Apple Power Macintosh 7100/80
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

------------------------------

From: Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 09:49:23 -0300
Subject: A Great Deal...

Had a great day showing the Cutlass at the Midland, MI Antique Festival.

In the used cars for sale section of the show, I noticed a brown 1975 
Olds 88 convertible with a white top. Solid #2 condition car in my 
estimation...

Price tag ---> $1500

Interior perfect, top in great shape, no rust and shiny brown paint...

It was, of course, SOLD!

Oh well, if I had just walked in to that earlier that day! I did find a 
Offenhauser 3-2v intake manifold there for $50, didn't buy, didn't have 
$50 bucks on me! I thought that might have been a good deal...

L8R,
Mike


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Michael R. Hall                            Ortonville, Michigan
E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com
Owner: 1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
Owner: 1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...
Owner: 1994 GMC Sonoma Club Coupe SLS Pickup.
         Brought to you by a Apple Power Macintosh 7100/80
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 15:47:52 -0300
Subject: Dreamer

>From the Sunday Tampa Tribune:

 --------------------------------
 | OLDS 1966 TORONADO frame     |
 | off restoration over $22,000 |
 | Asking $13,500 813-654-1134  |
 --------------------------------

Yeah, right.  Another price list believer.
  (Must be that serial #00000001)


The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Michael Blennerhassett <blenner@fhs.csu.McMaster.CA>
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 12:57:56 -0300
Subject: Re: Dreamer

On Sun, 2 Jun 1996, Mike Frederick wrote:

> >From the Sunday Tampa Tribune:
> 
>  --------------------------------
>  | OLDS 1966 TORONADO frame     |
>  | off restoration over $22,000 |
>  | Asking $13,500 813-654-1134  |
>  --------------------------------
> 
> Yeah, right.  Another price list believer.
>   (Must be that serial #00000001)
> 
> 
> The 66 Toro and Mike
> 

Yeah, really only worth about $13,000.

Of course, it never hurts to clip 
and save, just in case the insurance company ever needs to be convinced 
what that car was worth......  I am quite sure that I am underinsured 
after using a local appraiser.> 


Michael 'n his great 66 FWD car.

------------------------------

From: Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 14:50:50 -0300
Subject: Re: Dreamer

>Of course, it never hurts to clip 
>and save, just in case the insurance company ever needs to be convinced 
>what that car was worth......  I am quite sure that I am underinsured 
>after using a local appraiser.>


As in all things... the price for anything is what anyone is willing to 
pay.

As a side note, I sold a house once and the prospective buyer needed a 
FHA loan in order to buy it. After the bank appraisal AND reviewing the 
tax records that I had payed, it was determined by these people that I 
was asking $22,000 too much for my house.

I told them "I don't care what YOU think the price of the house should 
be!"
They said "How am I going to get the downpayment for the EXTRA money over 
the appraisal?"
I finalized with "Guess you will need a bigger downpayment, huh?"

The deal fell through, 3 months later the house sold for my asking 
price...

Who was right? The appraisals? The Tax records? Who cares, I didn't lose 
22 grand!

The point: the price for anything is what anyone is willing to pay. 
Somebody might buy that car for $13 grand, I wouldn't be surprised if it 
did.


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Michael R. Hall                            Ortonville, Michigan
E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com
Owner: 1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
Owner: 1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...
Owner: 1994 GMC Sonoma Club Coupe SLS Pickup.
         Brought to you by a Apple Power Macintosh 7100/80
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

------------------------------

From: Aaron Neumann <neumann.12@osu.edu>
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 15:41:44 -0300
Subject: Re: A decent donor car? 

At 08:20 PM 6/1/96 -0300, you wrote:
>At 07:00 PM 6/1/96 -0300, oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca wrote:
>>>
>>I checked the origial stats on that engine...310 HP and 490 lb/ft.  I
>>believe those "common" heads only give 9.00:1 compression, where as the
>>other 455's of that year that were equipped with a 4 barrel had 10.25:1
>>compression.  Output wasn't incredibly more on the 4bbl. though.  I'm in the
>>hunt as well...Good luck.
>>
>>-Aaron:
>
>I am torn.  The last potential donor I found was a '75 "98" with "J" heads.
>I am not planning on racing my car, I just want reasonable HP and
>dependability.  Both cars are still available.  The "98" also has a good
>tilt column and power front seat I could use.  Some folks here tell me that
>I might be better off with the "J" heads (hardened valve seats) and the
>lower compression for unleaded gas.  After driving both cars, which are
>tanks, I think either would make my comparatively featherweight coupe fly.
>What do you think?
>
>Bill Goodnight
>idaholc@primenet.com
>>
>
Well, I'm far from a *Rocket* scientist...that's why I sort of left my
response open ended.  Neither engine is a slouch, so you probably can't go
wrong, especially if your not overly concerned with speed.  Good point about
the lower compression for unleaded gas...  For comparison, here are the
stats for a '75 455 with 4 bbl:  190 Hp, 350 lb/ft, 8.5 compression.  Not
quite as nice as the older engine.  I'll leave it up to you, but I'd go with
more power!

- -Aaron  
>
>

 _____
|  |  |*********************************************************************
|  |  | "..saw a Deadhead sticker on a Cadillac, a little voice inside     *
|  |  |  my head said don't look back...you can never look back..."        *
| /|\ |Aaron Neumann  Akron, OH neumann.12@osu.edu 75213.656@compuserve.com*
|/_|_\|*********************************************************************	

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 19:16:49 -0300
Subject: Re: Dreamer

Mike Hall wrote:

> Somebody might buy that car for $13 grand, I wouldn't be surprised if 
> it did.

I would.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 12:01:19 -0300
Subject: Re: Dreamer

Mike Frederick wrote:
> 
> >From the Sunday Tampa Tribune:
> 
>  --------------------------------
>  | OLDS 1966 TORONADO frame     |
>  | off restoration over $22,000 |
>  | Asking $13,500 813-654-1134  |
>  --------------------------------
> 
> Yeah, right.  Another price list believer.
>   (Must be that serial #00000001)
> 
> The 66 Toro and Mike
> 
> --
> Michael R. Frederick, CEO
> Edison3, Incorporated
> Tampa, Florida
> (813) 210-8649

I said the prices of Toronados were expensive - not insane!

Bill Culp

------------------------------

From: Aaron Neumann <neumann.12@osu.edu>
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 17:35:56 -0300
Subject: Re: Sat stuffs plus engine offer 

>
>Ooooops! It ain't the HEADS that Olds varied to get compression [D heads
>notably excepted]- it's the PISTON DISH SIZE.


A big Homer Simpson "Dooooh!" in response to that.  I've actually always
been confused about that.  My mistake.  Thanks for clearing that up.


>  He should get that engine... put a cam in it, maybe bump the CR up to
>"10.25:1" which REALLY works out to about 9.8:1 w/ no head cuts...

I agree.

>  Hey, Aaron, what you willing to pay for an engine? I have:
>1970 455-4V, E heads
>1968 Toro 455, BV C heads
>1968 98 455, SV C heads
>1967 98 425, SV C heads
>1971 88 455, no heads?
>  etc...
>

Wow, that's quite a selection.  I'm not sure if I can buy anything from a
Michigander, being a Buckeye...wait, your from MSU, right?  Your cool
then...was up there this spring for a college water ski tourney...good fun.
Anyway, yes, I'm interested!  Like I said in another response, I'm no
*rocket* scientist, so I'm not sure which would be best for me.  I'm not
even clear on which heads are the best...I'm sure with your expertise, you
could help me pick.  The Toro engine has been recommended a few times.  I'm
looking for max power, of course :), and my price range is questionable.
Right now, maybe around $500.  By the end of the summer I could pay more.
Are these in need of a rebuild?  I'm sorta new to this game...what would you
be asking for the above engines?  Thanks...

- -Aaron  






 _____
|  |  |* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
|  |  | "..saw a Deadhead sticker on a Cadillac, a little voice inside     *
|  |  |  my head said don't look back...you can never look back..."        *
| /|\ |Aaron Neumann  Akron, OH neumann.12@osu.edu 75213.656@compuserve.com*
|/_|_\|* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *	

------------------------------

From: Dan Williams <dr_olds@kfmw.net>
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 16:15:33 -0300
Subject: Re: '68 SSII Wheels

Greg,

     If you check out my car on the web, you can see (if you look REALLY hard) 
those rims. They are all chrome SSIII and are 15x7s.  The one thing that I 
noticed about my wheels versus all of the other ones, is that mine only has the 
area near the lug nuts blacked out.  All other ones, have most of the 'spoke' 
blacked out.  However, I'm not sure of the years of these wheels.  Also, the 
blacked out spoke type also come in 14x7s.

- -Dan

> Finally, a question: here in town there's a mid-80s 4-door Cutlass
> taxicab(!) I see regularly that has the best-looking Olds wheels I've ever
> seen. They appear to be the SSII or III stamping, but are chrome (no trim
> ring) and have some black paint that makes them look very unique. What
> were these originally called and what were they used on? If I had an '80s
> 2-door Cutlass I think I'd make they guy an offer for them - I would
> *have* to have a set of these.
> 
> Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: "Peg O'Connor" <peg@grove.ufl.EDU>
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 23:45:13 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: License Plates

> >     Which states allow 8 letters?  WA only allows 7, including spaces.
> I believe you can get 8 down here in FL.

In Florida, you can have seven letters, and then either a space or 
hyphen.  Also, numbers alone cannot be more than three digits.

------------------------------

From: "Peg O'Connor" <peg@grove.ufl.EDU>
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 23:52:17 -0300
Subject: Re: ...And the "Duh" Award Goes To...

> [Tongue-in-Cheek Mode On]
> Harrumph. It's educational when it's on something like a '34 Olds, but
> an '86? Okay, I guess if your car is a keeper anyway, that's fine, but
> the guy I saw probably bought the plates along with the car, so the net
> effect conveyed here was not so much "I Have a Cool Car," but more like
> "This Car is Three Years Old and I'm Still Making Payments On It."

It is an '86, and a beater at that (for a rundown of all its "options", 
check Bryceman's page!), but it's still an Olds, and still 
deserves some recognition  . . . at least, up until the jellybean-year 
1988, that is. :)  Those are just plain embarrassing, IMHO.

------------------------------

From: "G. Douglas Burton" <gdburton@seidata.com>
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 00:10:19 -0300
Subject: 1984 Cutlass V-6 

A short time ago (over the weekend), I purchased said vehicle.  Took it for
a short test drive, seemed to run and drive just fine.  Paid the great sum
of $250.00 for the car and drove it home, approximately a one hour drive of
mostly country two-lane type highways.  I experienced no problems with the
car at all, it ran fine, no strange noises that I could hear.  Got up this
AM and went to a nearby golf course to play a round (about 30 miles one
way).  The only thing I noticed was that the oil light stayed on when I
started the car after sitting well over 2 hours.  It didn't stay on long,
but enough that it caught my attention.  I heard no ticking sound from the
engine which would indicate a lack of oil pressure, so I drove it back home.
At no time while on the road did the oil light come on.  Once back in my
home town, I noticed that the oil light would come on when ever I stopped.
It went out as soon as I pulled away from the stop sign.  Then I let my son
out at his house and with the car sitting there at idle the light came on.
My son said he could hear a slight ticking noise this time. Left from there
(oil light went out, but not until I drove a block or so) and stopped at my
sisters house.  Stayed there an hour and this time the oil light stayed on
for about 2 blocks and the ticking noise was much more noticeable.  Parked
the car in front of my house and checked the oil.  It was full, but very
dirty in appearance.  The car has 165,000 miles on the clock.  Before you
tell me what is wrong with the car, please listen to part 2 of the story below.

This is the second vehicle of this make and model that I have had.  The
first one I bought had a reported 250,000+ miles on it (odometer/speedometer
cable had been broke for awhile so no way to really tell).  I put
approximately 20,000 more miles on it before experiencing any problems with
it, during which time the oil was changed in the spring and fall, about
3000-4000 miles between changes.  The car started to exhibit similar
problems to the one I have now, until finally after an oil change, I could
not get the oil light to go out at all.  With several lifters ticking, I
shut down the engine and decided to put a new oil pump in.  I did so and
followed directions given with the parts to prime the pump using petroleum
jelly.  Everything went according to plan with the exception of getting the
case cover back on tight which resulted in a bad leak at the pump.  Took off
the cover again and found the cause of the problem and once again packed the
case with petroleum jelly.  This time the oil light would not go out at all.
To make a long story short, when the engine was pulled, I found it to be
totally clogged up.  Both passages and the sump were almost totally plugged up.

Now here are my questions.  First, how does one know if the passages are
clogged or if the oil pump itself is the problem?  If the engine is clogged,
how can the passages be cleaned without adding to the problem of more gunk
being loosened up and clogging a passage even more?  I've had several
suggestions from the half-assed mechanics around here, but something about
putting 4 quarts of diesel fuel or ATF and one quart of oil in the crankcase
and running the engine makes me shiver!

Here is my plan of action and reasoning behind it.  First I will try
changing the oil & filter to see if perhaps the current oil is just so old
and thin that it makes it hard to get pressure once the oil is hot.  Any
suggestions on a good oil for this purpose (considering that the passages
may be clogging)?  I suppose if this doesn't help, I will be looking for an
additive which will clean the passages without furthering the clogging if
that is in fact the problem.  Any suggestions short of pulling the engine
will be appreciated.  I'm not sure if the oil pan can be removed without
pulling the engine, but I will also be looking into that possibility.

You may think I'm getting upset over nothing, considering how much I paid
for the car, but every dollar counts to me and I hate the thought of ruining
another engine simply for lack of knowledge about the problem.  

Thanks for any and all responses...

Doug

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 19:40:13 -0300
Subject: Re: 1984 Cutlass V-6

G. Douglas Burton wrote:
> 
> A short time ago (over the weekend), I purchased said vehicle.  Took it for
> a short test drive, seemed to run and drive just fine.  Paid the great sum
> of $250.00 for the car and drove it home, 

> Now here are my questions.  First, how does one know if the passages are
> clogged or if the oil pump itself is the problem?  If the engine is clogged,
> how can the passages be cleaned without adding to the problem of more gunk
> being loosened up and clogging a passage even more?  I've had several
> suggestions from the half-assed mechanics around here, but something about
> putting 4 quarts of diesel fuel or ATF and one quart of oil in the crankcase
> and running the engine makes me shiver!
> 
>  but every dollar counts to me and I hate the thought of ruining
> another engine simply for lack of knowledge about the problem.
> 
> Thanks for any and all responses...
> 
> Doug

Doug:

Start with a real oil pressure gauge at the oil light port and see what 
you have for real.  Cheap guages work OK.  Most mechanics have these to 
check at idle and at cruise.  I would guess at least 20lb at idle and 50 
or 60 at cruise.  That should tell you if you have bad bearings, clogged 
passages, or a clogged oil pressure sensor.

I believe in the ATF cleaning - BUT - I would be afraid of 4 ATF's & 1 
engine oil.  Try draining the oil - HOT - changing filter and adding 4 
quarts of high quality engine oil + 1 quart ATF.  I'm not sure that the 
brand means much - Havoline 20W50 is nice in the South.  Change this at 
500 miles & repeat procedure with rather quick change again.  The first 
500 miles should tell you if anything is happening with your experiment.

Bill Culp

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 01:32:59 -0300
Subject: Re: I need 403 help... 

In a message dated 96-06-02 00:24:05 EDT, you write:

> How about some help?  I went to replace the rear main on my 403 last 
> week and
> it turns the out bearings (both rod and mains) were wore after 
> only 15000
> miles.  

As I am just having my 403 redone as we speak, I am *very* interested in this
particular topic.

>So to add to my daze of confusion, it turns out that 5 
> rods were
> pressed on the pistons 180 degrees differently than the other 3.  
> So I
> understood that the rod bearing tangs faced the oil pan rail.  But 
> after
> receiving Mondello's tech manual today, it states that the tangs 
> of the
> bearings face the opposite piston or towards the inside on the 
> block.

OK, I've got two shop manuals that cover this, but not directly. My 1969
manual shows the tangs facing the pistons, and labels the outside of the rod
as a "spit hole". Bevels on rods not shown or mentioned.
 
> This leads me to this question:  The rod caps have a slight angle (
> approx.
> 45) on one side.  These caps are different that the common 350/455 
> rod caps.
>  Do the angles face the crank journals or face each other.  (/- -\ 
> or -\ /-
> for lack of a better description).  If the angles face the crank 
> journals,
> the bearing tangs face the pan rail, and if they face each other, 
> the tangs
> face the inside.

I looked at my 403's rods when I disassembled it, and I could detect a small
chamfer (angle) on both sides of the big end of the rod. My '78 shop manual
has a note under the "Connecting Rod adn Piston Assembly Installation"
section, just after it states that the notch should be facing the front of
the engine:

  "NOTE: Connecting rod does not require specific orientation to the piston,
but notch in piston must face front of engine"

So according to the shop manual, the heck with the chamfers, it's the notch
that matters. 
 
> I'm in a bind because I just dropped off 5 pistons on Friday to 
> have the rods
> reversed and it seems that maybe I should have dropped off the 
> other 3....

Hmm, you didn't say which way they had the notches facing in relation to the
chamfers. Whatever the case, how could you have more than four pistons
pressed on wrong? Four pistons should have the chamfer on the same side as
the notch, and four should have it on the opposite side of the notch on the
piston, since each bank has the same orientation on the rod journals.

I don't think the chamfers would have anything to do with your bearing
problems, however. That's a *whole* 'nother kettle of fish! Did you have this
baby balanced? Were the pistons fitted to specific bores? Was your crank
checked out after it was ground?

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #193
********************************

