
oldsmobile-digest          Thursday, 4 April 1996       Volume 01 : Number 137


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Doug Ahern <doug@cobra.cosmic.uga.edu>
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 11:33:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Finally

> 
> Finally.  Finally.  Finally.  I've found a group of Oldsmobile enthusiasts.
> I own a 1938 Oldsmobile 'Six'.  I'm not sure if this will bother any of you
> but it is a street rod that has a 1972 Nova 350 engine and the like.  It has
> independant front suspension and leather interior.  Doors are electric and
> has centre-line wheels.

Yes!  those Oldsmobiles were beauties!  do you have a picture of it online?

Never mind all the anti-chevy comments, they a tempermental bunch,,,
I could see a small block Olds, but a big block anything would make that
one nose-heavy hot rod!  And at least its all GM! I feel bad bad for the Ford
guys who look at all those nice old fat fendered 48's and the deuce coupes
and phaeton's with Chevy pwoertrains!!!

In Athens GA, it's 55 deg. F in the morning, and 70 at 3pm...  And I'm
stuck in this office!!!

Doug Ahern      doug@cosmic.uga.edu  1964 F-85 Cutlass 
http://www.cosmic.uga.edu/doug.html  1969 Dart 
Sys Admin, COSMIC, Univ. of Georgia  1974 Satellite ex-cop car

------------------------------

From: Jon442@aol.com
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 11:43:23 -0400
Subject: Re: 86 Hurst/442? 

In a message dated 96-04-03 01:34:08 EST, you write:

>If anyone has picked up the latest Deals on Wheels, they might have
>seen an ad for a 1986 Hurst/442.  I have never heard of this before so I was
>really surprised to see one.

There was an '86 442, but there was never an '86 Hurst. However, there were
some kits sold that were represented as Hurst/Olds kits, which could turn
your Cutlass/442 into a Hurst/Olds. They were primarily a ground effects kit
and some H/O badges. The hood scoop and wing were most likely from an '83 or
'84 Hurst/Olds.

I don't recall the '86 442 having any additional goodies under the hood. It
consisted of mostly a stripe and paint package, with the rocker panels being
painted gray, regardless of what color the car was painted. The package also
consisted of 442 badging and the chrome Super Stock wheels.

Jon Wessel
Director, Hurst/Olds Club of America

------------------------------

From: "Dink" <heinle@jake.udayton.edu>
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 11:52:16 -0400
Subject: re: finally

Some guys don't like the chevy stuff and are complete Olds nuts but I 
see nothing wrong with the most popular small block in history.  If I 
ever find my 56 and can't afford the aurora engine, i'll buy a 
totaled 4th gen f-body, i've seen them for $1500 complete with lt-1 
6speed, etc.   Keeping it all Olds is cool, but I want performance and 
fuel economy, and I don't think a 455 can give me that.  I'm sure 
this will start a debate, over olds/other gm stuff, but no where else 
can I discuss this with a nicer group of Olds nuts.

Dink
80 Delta 88 Royale

{
Dink           Dayton, Ohio
http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
Computer Information Systems Major @ UD
}

------------------------------

From: "Dink" <heinle@jake.udayton.edu>
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 11:54:30 -0400
Subject: Re: 100th Anniversary Meet

> >> where) find and get that JWO membership/subscription, etc...
Stupid question.  What is JWO?

> Just to complete Greg's info, the full dues structure is
> 
> 1 year, 3rd class, US, $30
> 1 year, 1st class, US, $40
what's the diff between 1st class and 2nd class?  Just in the 
delivery process by the wonderfull US Post Office?

Dink
80 Delta 88 Royale

{
Dink           Dayton, Ohio
http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
Computer Information Systems Major @ UD
}

------------------------------

From: Dan Dale <daleds@okra.millsaps.edu>
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 11:58:19 -0400
Subject: '57 Olds still for sale 

here it part of the message I got from the seller....it's $800. is that good?




>The 1957 Olds is for sale and is a 4-door but looks like a 2 door except for
>the small post - 
>The car was driven into a service station in Cuba Mo over 20 years ago, and
>abandoned...the owner let the manager have it for storage costs, and his son
>kept it out at his farm for  all those years, under some trees, so there is
>some rust due to that and the floors are bad, but it basically looks very
>restorable...the J-2 engine is the head with a 3 - 2bbl carb setup, and the 371
>cu in engine is a hemi-head V-8 (called a Rocket 88 Engine I think)....the head
>is supposed to be worth $500 in any condition and the breather can (the metal
>housing) which is rare (because they were thrown away and replaced by open
>Chrome Breathers in the 50's by car nuts), and that breather has been
>advertised alone for $600 to 1100.00 in Hemmings over the  last few years



- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
$Daniel Dale  daleds@okra.millsaps.edu f-list since 2/95 http://www.millsaps.$
$edu/~daleds/index.html  cars: 1972 Cotner-Bevington Oldsmobile 98 Endloader,$
$1973 Imperial LeBaron, 1966 Pontiac GTO, 1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-X 5.7TPI$  
$1955 Cadillac Seville, (2) 1969 Cadillac DeVille Convertibles(one for parts)$ 
$1976 Cadillac Series 75 Fleetwood Brougham, 1961 Imperial Custom            $
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 11:58:28 -0400
Subject: Re: TH400 Shifts 

Bryceman:

There should be three wires to the switch that controls both the pitch and
kickdown.  An orange one from the car's wiring harness and two which go down
to the trans.

One wire controls the converter pitch solenoid, the other the kickdown
solenoid.

The converter should be in the "loose" or higher stall speed at idle and at
full throttle.  The idea was to have less creep while waiting at a stop light
and reduce the brake pedal pressure necessary to hold the car at idle.  At
full throttle it permitted a higher stall speed and therefore more torque
converter muliplication.

If the wires are reversed I would expect problems with shifting since the
kickdown solenoid could be active when it isn't desired.

A service manual wiring diagram should allow you to trouble shoot the
problem.

The variable pitch converter is a nice idea.  I use a two speed Jetaway
converter on the TH400 in my '67 W-30 (just as the factory did) and I almost
have the best of both worlds.  The Jetaway converter is designed for a small
block and a two-speed tranny.  The stall in the "loose" setting is about
3,000 RPM with my 455.  It is considerable less on the tight pitch.  With an
idle of ~1,000 rpm in drive I really have to stand on the non-power brakes to
hold the car.  For drag racing, fliping to the tight setting gets me several
hundred less rpm through the traps, almost like a small overdrive.

Hope this helps.

Bob Handren
'67 442 W-30 Modified
'70 Cutlass SX Convert.

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:04:46 -0400
Subject: Re: free stuff

On Mon, 1 Apr 1996, Doug McClanahan wrote:
> "Olds Code", can you tell where I can get a new center link?  I have 
> looked in year one, fusick, and kanter.  No dice, though Super cars 
> unlimited might have one.

Doug, I found my Whitney catalog and they are in there as I thought. 
About 50-90 bucks, depending on size.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:11:14 -0400
Subject: Re: 100th Anniversary Meet 

At 11:54 AM 4/3/96 -0400, you wrote:
>> >> where) find and get that JWO membership/subscription, etc...
>Stupid question.  What is JWO?
>
>> Just to complete Greg's info, the full dues structure is
>> 
>> 1 year, 3rd class, US, $30
>> 1 year, 1st class, US, $40
>what's the diff between 1st class and 2nd class?  Just in the 
>delivery process by the wonderfull US Post Office?
>
>Dink
>80 Delta 88 Royale


Yes, the classes refers to postage class.  1st class means you
get it a few days after its mailed, 3rd class means whenever
the post office gets around to it.  But I've never had a problem
with 3rd class.  I usually get JWO during the last week of the
month.


************************************************
Daniel A. Gulino
Associate Professor and Graduate Chairman
Department of Chemical Engineering
Ohio University
Athens, Ohio  45701-2979
(614) 593-1495
(614) 593-0873 (fax)
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://www.ent.ohiou.edu/che/faculty/gulino.html
************************************************

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:09:48 -0400
Subject: Re: 100th Anniversary Meet

On Wed, 3 Apr 1996, Dink wrote:
> Stupid question.  What is JWO?

Journey With Olds, the Official Publication of the Olds Club of America.

> what's the diff between 1st class and 2nd class?  Just in the 
> delivery process by the wonderfull US Post Office?

Yep, think so.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:14:50 -0400
Subject: Aurora engine ; was "finally" 

That Aurora engine would be great in the '56 - light too!

The complete set of chassis manuals for the Aurora car is $95 at Helm.  I 
know right now it will go up in value.  I probably would have balked at $10 
for the late '60's manuals also.  Anyone know where I can get it cheaper?

David Brown
dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu    (312) 702-9157
"Oldsmobile - big V8s pulling excessive iron and an FAQ"

- ----------------------
Some guys don't like the chevy stuff and are complete Olds nuts but I 
see nothing wrong with the most popular small block in history.  If I 
ever find my 56 and can't afford the aurora engine, i'll buy a 
totaled 4th gen f-body, i've seen them for $1500 complete with lt-1 
6speed, etc.   Keeping it all Olds is cool, but I want performance and 
fuel economy, and I don't think a 455 can give me that.  I'm sure 
this will start a debate, over olds/other gm stuff, but no where else 
can I discuss this with a nicer group of Olds nuts.

Dink
80 Delta 88 Royale

{
Dink           Dayton, Ohio
http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
Computer Information Systems Major @ UD
}

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:26:38 -0400
Subject: OCA Nationals in Atlanta 

To everyone who has asked, the dates of the 1996 OCA Nationals in Atlanta are
August 7-11.  This is the weekend immediately following the end of the
Olympics!

Show info:

Host Hotel: Marriott Northwest (770)952-7900 (May be sold out.  Maybe they
can provide other local hotel information.)

Show info: (770)565-2052

Swap Meet: (708)429-5505

Bob Handren
'67 442 W-30 modified
'70 Cutlass SX Convert.

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:34:41 -0400
Subject: Re: finally 

Being in sunny FL a group of us went to the Daytona Speedway Spring
Spectacular weekend before last (you can get a picture of your car crossing
the finish line under the checkered flag among other fun things).

I saw a '38 Olds coupe there.  My dream car.  Had a 455 & TH400 and was for
sale but no price listed.  Being in the category of "if you have to ask you
can't afford it" I let it pass.

But I can still dream.

And it didn't look particularly nose heavy to me.  I mean if you are really
concerned there are Aluminum intakes and heads available for $$$$$$$.  

Being all Olds is so rare.  It's the only car of that vintage I have seen
with an Olds drive train.  It was too cool. Black primer with pastel swoops,
waves, etc.  Arrrgh. I want it!!


Bob Handren
'67 442 W-30 modified
'70 Cutlass SX Convert

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:46:22 -0400
Subject: Re: '57 Olds still for sale 

There were no hemi heads for the 371, or 394 for that matter.  At least not
from Olds.  The 394 was actually a very popular engine for blown dragsters,
the Chevy was too small and the early Chrylser hemis were just coming on.
 Don Garlits actually ran an Olds for a while. The only hemi Olds made never
quite made it to production in the early '70s.  It would have been awesome
having 4 valves per cylinder with more valve area than the largest racing
engines of the time - and this would have been a production motor!  There is
at least one in the Olds museum in Lansing and there are photos of several
versions including overhead cam versions.  They even had part numbers cast
into the manifolds, etc.

Being an old fart I worked at a Cad/Olds dealer during the '57 model year.
 J-2 manifolds are not that rare for the simple reason that in '58-60(?)
every 2-V 371cid engine used the J-2 manioild with block off plates over the
end carb mountings.  The hardest things to come by are the correct air
cleaners.  As best as I can recall the '57 used a bat wing dual oil bath
filter system, the '58 used one of the first paper filter systems.

Of course a few brain cells had passed away since the late '50's but I am
quite positive about the manifolds and block off plates.

Bob Handren
442 W-30 modified
'70 Cutlass convert.

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 04:55:36 -0400
Subject: Re: 86 Hurst/442? 

     1.  I don't know for sure, but I've never heard of such a beast.  
     There's also no listing of any such creature in the H/OCA price list.
     2.  There really isn't much to combine.  The 442 has everything that 
     the Hurst/Olds does.  The Hurst/Olds has the lightning rods shifters 
     (while 442s just had a normal one AFAIK), the spoiler, airdam, and a 
     few miscellaneous trim items.  Drivetrain on the 442 and H/O are 
     identical, except for the fact that the later year 307's had hyd. 
     roller lifters.  The Hurst/Olds comes standard with all options except 
     cloth interior (vinyl is std.), posi, t-tops, and choice of radio.  
     The 442 didn't come standard with all the options, but you could order 
     them with it.
     3.  Olds didn't make anything bigger than the 307 that year, so it 
     can't be too special.
     
     I'd ask for some serious documentation, possibly including build 
     sheet, window sticker, or at least some Olds sales propoganda about 
     it.  If he's expecting $15k he should have that documentation.
     
     Tom L.

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: 86 Hurst/442?
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    4/2/96 11:24 PM

     If anyone has picked up the latest Deals on Wheels, they might have
seen an ad for a 1986 Hurst/442.  I have never heard of this before so I was 
really surprised to see one.  In the ad, it claims that it is 1 of 52 (or 
so) made.  From the looks in the picture it is black or dark grey, has the 
hood scoop and deck wing.  It also looked like it had ground effects on it? 
The car has 39,000 original miles and the owner wants $15,000 for it.
     I have a few questions regarding this:
1.  Is this car for real?  Was all of this factory original or just bolt ons? 
2.  If so, why was it called the Hurst/442?  Does it have all the Hurst and 
442 equipment combined?
3.  Does this car have any factory specialties under the hood?
4.  If  Oldsmobile did make this extremely rare car, what was their 
intentions for it?  Why so few?
5.  I highly doubt it, but does this car have anything to do with that Car 
Craft 85 442 1g project car?
     Any additional information about this car would be appreciated.  Thanks.
     
Brandon
86 Cutlass Salon
     
     

------------------------------

From: "Bryan Ausmus" <bausmus@ford.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:33:16 -0400
Subject: [none]

unsubscribe

- -- 
Bryan Ausmus
bausmus@ford.com

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 16:12:32 -0400
Subject: Re: finally

BobH592058@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Being in sunny FL a group of us went to the Daytona Speedway Spring
> Spectacular weekend before last (you can get a picture of your car 
> crossing the finish line under the checkered flag among other fun 
> things).
> 

You just reminded me.  Somewhere around here I have a form from Sebring 
Raceway.  They'll let you take you're car around the course!  Love to 
have a video of the Toro plowing around one of the turns ...

      HEADLINE: "Tampa driver wins Sebring in 30 year-old Olds!"

Cool...

The 66 Toro and Mike

- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Doug McClanahan <mcclan@wsdot.wa.gov>
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:14:48 -0400
Subject: suspension stuff feedback

- --------------
>Doug, I found my Whitney catalog and they are in there as I thought.=20
>About 50-90 bucks, depending on size.

>Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, >C=
anada

OUCH!  I got tired of looking for a center link and broke down a bought=20
one from Super Cars Unlimited of Portland Oregon.  I paid $160.00=20
(sheeash).  I'll just have to talk myself into believing that I got a=20
better quality part (right! that's likely).  Well thanks anyway.

By the way the suspension parts that I have ordered so far for my 67 CS=20
are:
Year One
energy suspension control arm bushings es33117 75.00 a kit
ball joints upper 785n 55.00 ea x2 lower lb320 24.00 es x2
tie rod ends inner it307 21.00 x2 outer ot306 35.00 ea x2
control arm shaft and bushing kit sk312 31.00 ea x2
rear axle energy suspension control arm bushings (8) 33109e 95.00 kit

Supercars Unlimited:
ideler arm 02-008 27.95
center link 02-044 159.95 (ouch)

Hotchkis (Sallee Chev***) of Portland OR
Front Springs 500 lb/in 1 inch lower than stock
Rear Springs 130 lb/in 1 inch lower than stock all 4 springs for 227.96

I plan on ordering:
Hellwig
front anti-sway bar 1-5/16=94and kit with poly bushings 101.39 (can this =
be=20
true?)
rear 1=94 90.39

I plan on welding my rear control arms and inserting pipe for the bolts=20
of the anti-sway bars.

I know, I know I spent way too much money but I got tired of waiting for=20
the gazillion catalogs to come and flipping pages to save 10 bucks got=20
old.

How about some feed back on what I did right and what I did or will be=20
doing wrong.  Just getting a little feedback would at least let me know=20
where I stand on what I have done.  Thanks

Doug (bolt on boy - I don=92t deny it)
mcclan@wsdot.wa.gov

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 16:19:23 -0400
Subject: Another Olds still for sale

Bob's post reminded me:  That '55 Holiday 98, 4-dr hardtop (ps, pb, pw, 
ac, auto) is still in the Tampa Tribune for $750 obo.
	
I'll check it out if anyone's interested or you can call the owner at 
(813) 238-6042 9-5 EST.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:33:22 -0400
Subject: misc

For the inquirer: 'twas the waterlogged C heads that sold; the tri-carb intake
will sell after I die or meybe the gov't makes having old cars no fun at all
anymore... No bumper worthy of use or I'd have let ya know.

Dist'r rebuild: Nat'l Automotiv Lines [web page?] sells a kit that does 6
dist's for $18. You'd need rudimentary tools like a hammer, drift, pin punch,
sandpaper, grease to redo a dist'r. A vise would be "nise" too.

Yesterday, I saw the rudest bastardization of an Olds that it has ever been my
displeasure to encounter. Picture a 1970 Cutlass. Fine ride, eh? Nice, kinda
sporty, not too wild. Now FF about 26 years, applying salt all the way. Every
panel that can do so is a-flappin' in the breeze. "Correct" LH mirror flops
about as if dead, has a healthy population of chrome-zits. OK, it happens,
forgiveable, even in old age there is dignity; a sense of what once was.
  Then it fell into the hands of the Deliverance Crew... "Hey, bubba, let's
make that ol' Cutlass a FOUR WHEELER!" Cut & hack the 4wd frame to fit. Sorta.
Weld in gobs with whatever stick is in the mud that day. Move them spring
mounts. Leave the springs big enough to support a dump truck. And the Blow-tie
engine. Air cleaner? Don't be preposterous! That just slows down the air! Why
after you change from the 2V intake [toss that old thing on the floor in the
back...] to the 4V, yer gonna NEED that airflow into your 8:1 engine with a
lame cam...
  Let's not forget the interior: install a nice bench seat. Out of a Cadillac
or something, in black velvet. Giant tires, of course [that's a big selling
point, proudly announced on the notice, along with the $800 price]. Aye!

Found a 66 parts car, sorta, too. Almost as bad, the object of a generation of
kids in the family. Kids who like to beat and shoot stuff. Not an undamaged
panel on the car. up to it's rear in mud. MIGHT be able to extract a
serviceable forged crank, but that's about it. No glass, no interior. Aye.

Toro/ Next Project. Yeah, my rusty 68 W30 was originally a parts car. Then, it
was a driver, then "too good to get rid of, it IS a factory W30 after all."
Wasn't planned, just worked out that way. We HAD to drive it, and I had the
parts to make it go [engine/trans]. Toro trans seal: easy! Chilton's 3-step
process: 1) remove engine :)  2) Replace trans seal  3) Replace engine.
  Seriously, I extracted a 66 Toro engine last year, 'twas more involved than a
Cutlass to be sure, but not real hard. Now, if the crank won't turn, you are in
bad shape. I have a 68 Toro, rusted engine, tried to extract the engine for
that rumored 'forged crank' ya know, but the tork converter could not be
removed, and the RH drive axle prevents the engine from going fwd far nuff to
extract. So that's where that is now.

Shame about those donated cars & stuff. I say liberate if possible, in the name
of the greater good for the population as a whole. Just don't get caught. I
recall once here we had an Early Vega? foreign-Opel-like car that they sere
done with and wanted disposed of. Since the dept had a bulldozer on had at the
time, I attacked it w/ the dozer. Ran over it, shoved it into the loading dock,
basically made it into a 4' round ball of steel. Then, I got the bright idea to
back onto it. Ended up sitting atop the thing on the dozer, when folks began to
take notice that maybe I was having a bit TOO much fun. And it occured to me
that if I tipped it over backwards that the doxer would likely flip over onto
me... end of fun.

A snippet, as best I can recall it, from the Blues Brothers:
 BANG!
E: Oh no!
J: What happened?
E: The engine threw a rod...
J: Is that serious?
E: Yep.
               :)
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: tbmarq@mayhem.b23a.ingr.com (Tom Marquis)
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:47:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Vista Cruiser, Part Twoser: The Parting (Out) -and yeah, it's long...

> Now, all I have to do is the "marital preparations" for the new baby... How
> do *you* all prepare your spouse for your next "acquisition"? Any worst-case
> examples? Any marriage-breakers? I'm hoping to get in on the property as
> another parts car, but then argue that it is in "too good shape" to part
> out... Has that worked for anyone?

When you figure out this "marital preparations" thing let me know. My spouse 
refers to my rusty 66 convert. as the DIVORCE CAR. If I move it from my fathers 
barn  to our garage she'll divorce me. 

I'm sure gonna miss her. :)

TomM

------------------------------

From: Lucas Frick <frick@macrochip.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:54:22 -0400
Subject: Rear sway-bar

Hot damn  - my 71 olds handles better than a 96 Porsche 911.

I put in the boxed lower control arms and sway bar from a Judge some =
chump decided to part out and I can't believe the difference.  It's =
incredible.  I would have done it long ago but didn't know it would make =
that much difference.

Luke  71 442

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 14:20:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Vista Cruiser, Part Twoser: The Parting (Out) -and yeah, it's long... 

Spousal Support: great when you have it, hell when you don't.

Try pointing out that she/he knows where you are, the money isn't going to
booze or drugs, other women, etc.

Put it this way.  I am the original owner of my '67 442.  I still have the
car but a new spouse who pushes me to improve our cars.

What a joy. 

Bob Handren

------------------------------

From: Scott D Ballentine <sb7k+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 14:21:44 -0400
Subject: Getting wet 

Hey there everybody.  I'm gonna pick a few of your brains here, but I
gotta tell the whole story first.  Last night, me and a few of my
friends went out for a while to celebrate my buddy's 21st birthday.  We
took him to Hooters (good wings, poor service, saw a few things I
wouldn't mind bringing home with me).  I got to drive.  About a 1/4 mi
away from there, somebody says "What's that smell?" and then my friend
in the front passenger seat says "Why's the floor all wet?"  Already I
knew it was going to be a good night.  Anyway, we got our grub, made the
birthday boy down a pitcher of I.C. Light all by himself, and hopped
back in the car and prayed that we'd make it home OK.  Realized very
quickly that I wasn't going to get the windshield to defrost very well,
but was able to get it enough to try driving it.  Made it half a mile or
so, realized that the poor old 260 was working way to hard to get home
(about 10 miles) with 6 people in the car and most of my antifreeze
soaking into the carpet.  Anyway, stopped at Food-4-Less, called Mom,
and told her to get two cars out here to get everybody home.  Enter Mom
logic.  She tells my sister and her boyfriend to hop in her Honda Civic
and come out to get us.  An hour later, sister and boyfriend cannot find
us, which was fine, because it wouldn't help too much.  Time to consider
other options.  The only person I can get a hold of with a car is
currenly next to me full of beer.  So, I get my one buddy to call his
parents, they get my friends home, and now it's time to try driving my
car home.  10 miles later with the windows down in 40 degree (at best)
temperatures, I put it in the garage, and go to bed.  Anyway, I get to
drive the Honda until I do something with my car, which means I gotta do
something pretty soon.  This means a bad heater core (I think that's the
right name for it), right?  Is there anything else that could cause the
antifreeze to wind up coming out of the dash (I assume it's coming
through the heater ducts).  Now for the big question: I don't mind
turning wrenches myself, but I'm worried that I could be in over my head
on this one.  So, do I a) try this myself, b) pay somebody to do this,
c) time for a 350, or d) anybody want an 80 Cutlass real cheap?  FYI,
it's a 260 V8, A/C, 1980 Cutlass Supreme.  I'm looking for suggestions
on what to do and if this is something I can tackle myself in the first
place.  Thanks.


    -Scott Ballentine
     sb7k@andrew.cmu.edu
     Carnegie Mellon University
     School of Computer Science

------------------------------

From: SG Hartfelder <stanh@compusmart.ab.ca>
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 07:43:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Getting wet 

Sounds like a heater code problem for sure!  It's an ugly job that usually
includes removing your dash.  Probably best left to a professional.

S.G. Hartfelder
Edmonton, AB  CANADA
stanh@compusmart.ab.ca
1938 Old's Street Rod

- --------------------------------------------

At 02:21 PM 96/4/3 -0400, you wrote:
>Hey there everybody.  I'm gonna pick a few of your brains here, but I
>gotta tell the whole story first.  Last night, me and a few of my
>friends went out for a while to celebrate my buddy's 21st birthday.  We
>took him to Hooters (good wings, poor service, saw a few things I
>wouldn't mind bringing home with me).  I got to drive.  About a 1/4 mi
>away from there, somebody says "What's that smell?" and then my friend
>in the front passenger seat says "Why's the floor all wet?"  Already I
>knew it was going to be a good night.  Anyway, we got our grub, made the
>birthday boy down a pitcher of I.C. Light all by himself, and hopped
>back in the car and prayed that we'd make it home OK.  Realized very
>quickly that I wasn't going to get the windshield to defrost very well,
>but was able to get it enough to try driving it.  Made it half a mile or
>so, realized that the poor old 260 was working way to hard to get home
>(about 10 miles) with 6 people in the car and most of my antifreeze
>soaking into the carpet.  Anyway, stopped at Food-4-Less, called Mom,
>and told her to get two cars out here to get everybody home.  Enter Mom
>logic.  She tells my sister and her boyfriend to hop in her Honda Civic
>and come out to get us.  An hour later, sister and boyfriend cannot find
>us, which was fine, because it wouldn't help too much.  Time to consider
>other options.  The only person I can get a hold of with a car is
>currenly next to me full of beer.  So, I get my one buddy to call his
>parents, they get my friends home, and now it's time to try driving my
>car home.  10 miles later with the windows down in 40 degree (at best)
>temperatures, I put it in the garage, and go to bed.  Anyway, I get to
>drive the Honda until I do something with my car, which means I gotta do
>something pretty soon.  This means a bad heater core (I think that's the
>right name for it), right?  Is there anything else that could cause the
>antifreeze to wind up coming out of the dash (I assume it's coming
>through the heater ducts).  Now for the big question: I don't mind
>turning wrenches myself, but I'm worried that I could be in over my head
>on this one.  So, do I a) try this myself, b) pay somebody to do this,
>c) time for a 350, or d) anybody want an 80 Cutlass real cheap?  FYI,
>it's a 260 V8, A/C, 1980 Cutlass Supreme.  I'm looking for suggestions
>on what to do and if this is something I can tackle myself in the first
>place.  Thanks.
>
>
>    -Scott Ballentine
>     sb7k@andrew.cmu.edu
>     Carnegie Mellon University
>     School of Computer Science
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: "Dink" <heinle@jake.udayton.edu>
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 14:44:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Getting wet

> This means a bad heater core (I think that's the
> right name for it), right?
yep heater core thats the one.

> Now for the big question: I don't mind
> turning wrenches myself, but I'm worried that I could be in over my head
> on this one.  So, do I a) try this myself
yep, i replaceed my heater core on 80 Delta and it was pretty easy.  
I had help from a Chiltons but that was about it.

> b) pay somebody to do this,
no

> c) time for a 350,
allways time for a 350 :)

> d) anybody want an 80 Cutlass real cheap?
nope

> if this is something I can tackle myself in the first place.  Thanks.
shouldnt be to hard, i think my heater core cost about $40 from 
Murrays, Autozone, etc...

Good luck

Dink
80 Delta 88 Royale many mods

{
Dink           Dayton, Ohio
http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
Computer Information Systems Major @ UD
}

------------------------------

From: "Dink" <heinle@jake.udayton.edu>
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 15:06:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Getting wet

> Sounds like a heater code problem for sure!  It's an ugly job that usually
> includes removing your dash.  Probably best left to a professional.

Not on the Delta, but maybe on a cutlass.  On the delta you took it 
out from the engine compartment, behind the blower motor.  i don't 
know where it is on the cutlass.

Dink
80 Delta 88 Royale many mods

{
Dink           Dayton, Ohio
http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
Computer Information Systems Major @ UD
}

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 15:17:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Getting wet 

Just about every car requires taking the dash off to replace the heater core.  
I'm not sure of this, but on a car with a removable heater/fan box (screwed to 
fire wall), you might be able to replace it throught there.

Keep the parts together in the order they were taken off.  Definitely check out 
a manual (Chilton's in a pinch) before/while undertaking this task.

Good luck!

David Brown
dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu    (312) 702-9157
"Oldsmobile - powerful roadsters with big V8s"

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 15:16:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Getting wet

<snip>

> drive the Honda until I do something with my car, which means I gotta do
> something pretty soon.  This means a bad heater core (I think that's the
> right name for it), right?  Is there anything else that could cause the
> antifreeze to wind up coming out of the dash (I assume it's coming
> through the heater ducts).  Now for the big question: I don't mind
> turning wrenches myself, but I'm worried that I could be in over my head
> on this one.  So, do I a) try this myself, b) pay somebody to do this,
> c) time for a 350, or d) anybody want an 80 Cutlass real cheap?  FYI,
> it's a 260 V8, A/C, 1980 Cutlass Supreme.  I'm looking for suggestions
> on what to do and if this is something I can tackle myself in the first
> place.  Thanks.
> 
> 
>     -Scott Ballentine
>      sb7k@andrew.cmu.edu

I'll take a shot at this, but someone may be able to give a better answer.

It may be your heater core, or it may be the hoses to the heater core.

Some cars have the heater core, inside the dash, with hoses inside the car.

I would think that a bad leak is more likely a hose.  A leak in the core
would more likely be a smaller "rust hole" leak.  The heater core is just a
small radiator, and fails in the same ways as your real radiator.

The water is probably not coming in through the heater ducts, but out of
the a cracked hose or the bottom of the blower box where the core is.

A core can be easy to replace, or hard depending on how much (if any)
of the car dash you have to take apart to get to it.  On my brother's
Mustang, they estimated it as a $600 job, almost all labor.  In my 70 98, 
I think it's in the engine compartment on the firewall, and not too hard a job.

If it's a hose, it's usually easy.

On the bright side, especially with spring here (or almost here, anyway),
you can still run the car.  Just bypass the heater core.  Take one of the
heater hoses off the core, and run it to where the other hose comes off
the engine.

Then, you can fix the car when you have time.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | These opinions are strictly my own,           _____ 
lawrencr@gdls.com |       ____                               ____/__O__\____ 
(810) 825-8007    |   ___<____>======                       /===/-------\===\
                  |  <o_o_o_o_o_o> Tanks, for your support! \___\-------/___/

 

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 15:27:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Summit Disappointment... 

I have to agree, the catalog coverage is pretty slim.  Performance 
Automotive Warehouse contains the most I've seen in one catalog.  Even 
though it's not listed, they probably carry it or can order it - and even 
at a competitive price, I hope.  Just keep telling them "I want you to 
carry and list more Olds parts".

It's a rather uncomfortable feeling when the other brands are treated so 
badly as well.

David Brown
dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu    (312) 702-9157
"Oldsmobile - powerful roadsters with big V8s and soon to be Edelbrock aluminum 
heads"
- ------------------

As part of my "getting serious" about my 403 rebuild, I decided to update my
catalog collection, so I ordered a Summit Racing catalog to replace my 1992
issue...

Well, you could fit *all* the Olds parts they list in that catalog on one
page! Meanwhile, there are about a half-dozen pages devoted to Ch*vy
*crankshafts*!

What's with that??? I remember when there were serious parts for just about
every make (not to feel singled out, AMC, Buick, and even Mopar parts are
lacking much representation as well).

I'm hoping my Jeg's catalog will have a bit more; I know the parts are made,
since Mondello doesn't just sell the parts he makes. I don't hold out much
hope for my soon-to-come ASAP catalog, though.

Pretty soon, it looks like the Olds 455 and 350 will take their place in
Kanter's catalog right along side the 221" Flathead Ford and the Buick
Straight-8!

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 07:55:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Getting wet 

     Yup, sounds most definitely like the heater core.  Replacing a heater 
     core isn't hard, just labor intensive.  I think when they build the 
     cars on the assembly line, the first thing that gets plopped down onto 
     the conveyor belt is the heater core.  Then the rest of the car is 
     built around that.
     
     What I'm saying is that a lot of stuff has to come off to get to the 
     heater core.  Get yourself a Haynes manual or something like that and 
     you should be okay.  It's not hard, just involves removing lots of 
     panels, bolts, etc.
     
     To get your car driveable in the meantime (and get outa that Honda!), 
     find the two heater hoses where they enter the firewall to attach to 
     the heater core.  Take the hoses off and splice the ends together 
     (find a small piece of pipe or something).  You won't have a heater, 
     but you can drive it in the meantime.
     
     Tom L.


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Getting wet
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    4/3/96 11:24 AM

something pretty soon.  This means a bad heater core (I think that's the 
right name for it), right?  Is there anything else that could cause the 
antifreeze to wind up coming out of the dash (I assume it's coming 
through the heater ducts).  Now for the big question: I don't mind 
turning wrenches myself, but I'm worried that I could be in over my head 
on this one.  So, do I a) try this myself, b) pay somebody to do this, 
c) time for a 350, or d) anybody want an 80 Cutlass real cheap?  FYI, 
it's a 260 V8, A/C, 1980 Cutlass Supreme.  I'm looking for suggestions 
on what to do and if this is something I can tackle myself in the first 
place.  Thanks.
     
     
    -Scott Ballentine
     sb7k@andrew.cmu.edu
     Carnegie Mellon University
     School of Computer Science
     

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 15:57:33 -0400
Subject: RE: 350 engine, etc

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB2171.780D9E00
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Gee Tom I'm sorry but I get a flood of mail here, I must have sent you someone elses response. What were you looking for again?

- ----------
From: 	Tom Marquis[SMTP:tbmarq@mayhem.b23a.ingr.com]
Sent: 	Tuesday, April 02, 1996 7:50 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Re: 350 engine, etc

Chris,

What was [just sold]? The intake, engine or bumper? I assume it was the intake i
and or engine, because that's what I'm interested in. i

Am I falling for fools part deux? 

TomM


>   Tri-carb intake, complete to carbs WITH tags, linkage, most fuel lines, and
> air cleaners. Came in trunk of 67 442. Car in nearly rustfree, came with
> correct x-w xst mans, headers, waterlogged 425 with C heads [just sold],
> chromed tailpipes, NOS Hemi mufflers [with notch], NOS 308 degree cam, etc.





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------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 16:01:57 -0400
Subject: RE: bearing noises

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB2171.7F8D2C40
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I would also like to add that I've come across a few spun bearing =
engines that had been driven for quite some time making noise and had =
very little damage done to them, so don't discount an engine because of =
a spun bearing right away, if you have the chance take them apart you =
may be pleasantly surprised.

- ----------
From: 	Bob0Barry@aol.com[SMTP:Bob0Barry@aol.com]
Sent: 	Tuesday, April 02, 1996 8:55 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Re: bearing noises

In a message dated 96-04-02 16:07:06 EST, you write:

>One thing I have noticed, from the last year of heavy influx of =
spun-bearing
>engines... If you quit SHORTLY after the knocking starts you can save =
some
$.
>If you continue to run it with it knocking, here are some of the things =
I
>have seen on the spun-bearing engines:
[excellent advice deleted...]
>If you catch it in time, you can live with a regrind on the crank, =
resize
the
>rods, and new bearings. If not, you'll need another engine to donate =
rods,
>crank, pistons, block, heads, etc. Mitaswell use the whole other =
engine,
>unless numbers-match is critical.

Chris, this is excellent information. I am about to travel an hour to go =
look
at a 403 core motor that has "spun" a bearing, though they haven't =
opened it
up yet. Now I know what to look for, and what to avoid. Since I want to =
use
the block, crank and rods, the information you just provided is crucial =
for
my pre-purchase evaluation.

And someone else writes...

>Kevin, thanks for the comprehensive info on bearing noise and don't =
wait=20
>so long to post next time! Info like this is hard to find.=20
>
>The good news is that my 350 has none of these symptoms so I can rest=20
>easy on that score. The noise I get is intermittent and seems to bear=20
>some relation to the lifters/pushrods/rockers. None of which is a major =

>job to replace, thank goodness, nor particularly expensive even if I =
had=20
>to do all of them. Toss in a new timing chain & gear set plus water =
pump=20
>and I'll rest easy. Now if I could only find that cam....

One time on starting up my 403, I heard a deep rapping noise from the =
center
of the engine that struck fear into my heart; it went away as the engine
warmed up, and disappeared entirely after a while. What I originally was
*convinced* was a bad main bearing knock turned out to be a sticking =
lifter
that freed itself up and never gave me another problem. Terrified me =
when it
happened, as I really was not in a position to rebuild the engine at =
that
point.




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From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 16:06:34 -0400
Subject: RE: finally

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If your into Old sfor performance and economy I think you missed the whole point.

- ----------
From: 	Dink[SMTP:heinle@jake.udayton.edu]
Sent: 	Wednesday, April 03, 1996 10:52 AM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	re: finally

Some guys don't like the chevy stuff and are complete Olds nuts but I 
see nothing wrong with the most popular small block in history.  If I 
ever find my 56 and can't afford the aurora engine, i'll buy a 
totaled 4th gen f-body, i've seen them for $1500 complete with lt-1 
6speed, etc.   Keeping it all Olds is cool, but I want performance and 
fuel economy, and I don't think a 455 can give me that.  I'm sure 
this will start a debate, over olds/other gm stuff, but no where else 
can I discuss this with a nicer group of Olds nuts.

Dink
80 Delta 88 Royale

{
Dink           Dayton, Ohio
http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
Computer Information Systems Major @ UD
}




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------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 16:42:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Getting wet 

Get an _Oldsmobile_ Service for your car!  It will tell you how, where, etc.
 Worth every penny.  Don't bother with Chilton, Motor, etc.  Too general and
can't possibly cover all cars and their heater cores.

Follow the heater hoses.  They lead to the core.  In years past I even asked
the Olds dealership mechanics how to do something.  Most of them are pretty
understanding.  Try going to the parts dept (they might even have a service
manual -not likely but possible) and make like you're considering buying the
core from them.  You might get the information you need.

Not too familiar with the "newer" cars but on the Cutlass' of my era the
heater cores are accessed by removing the inner fender liner on the passenger
side, removing all the hoses (two) and metal nuts holding the heater/AC box
to the firewall. Pull off the AC evaporator and you will see the heater core,
a small radiatior as explained in a previous message.  

The trick is removing the interior portion of the heat/AC system holding the
core.  Get it out, remove 2-3 sheet metal screws holding the bracket holding
the core, replace the core and put it back together.

It is not complicated.  No serious .0005" measurements or anything like that.
 Just a lot of work.  Expect it to take you more than just a few hours doing
it yourself.  This is one of those jobs through which you can learn a lot of
how your car is assembled.  If you accomplish it, it is a big confidence
builder.  Removing the engine isn't a whole lot more complicated. It seems I
have always had more time than money to work on my cars. Put another way,
even if I don't have all the time in the world, saving several hundred
dollars outweighs any lack of experience.

I'm in my mid 50's now.  One of the pivotal moments in my life was when
something supposedly fixed broke again (a 3-speed stick shift in my '56 88).
 Hey, I finished school, even went to college.  I figure I am at least as
smart as the jokers who get paid to screw things up.  It's sure been fun
since then.

I've even tackled the supposedly tricky automatic transmission.  I now build
all my own TH400 with nothing but hand tools.  Yea, the first one lasted 20
minutes but all the others have lasted forever.  Including the one in my '67
442 with 455 (less than 8:1 compression ratio)  and nitrous.  How's mid 11's
@ 120mph from a heavy (weight added, none removed from stock) car. Run
anywhere all day, run any fuel the EPA currently mandates.

You can do anything you set your mind to.  Can you afford several hundred
dollars?  If yes go ahead and pay somebody.  You'll save a lot of time.  If
you do it yourselfl and you screw somehting up, can you do without the car
for a day or two?  In your case, you should be able to drive the car no
matter what you do.  It might get a little breezy but hey, we're car guys.

Good Luck

Bob Handren
'67 442 W-30 modified
"70 Cutlass SX convert.

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 16:47:49 -0400
Subject: Re: finally 

A 455 isn't always the gas hog you think.

The '70 SX Cutlass with 2.56 rear gears, TH400, radials and in good tune
could top 20mpg.  Given the power, etc. that's pretty good economy to me. 

Of course, if you can't keep your foot out of that wonderful 365HP motor,
that's  fun and not related to economy.

Bob H.

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:33:15 -0400
Subject: Dick Miller Racing Newsletter

I notice in the current JWO that Dick Miller Racing offers a one-year 
newsletter subscription for $10.00. Does anyone here receive this? If so, 
is it worth the money? What's typically covered in it?

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:48:14 -0400
Subject: $100 Starfire Engine in Flint, Mi.

>From a '63, according to the ad in JWO. Includes a tranny too. What a 
deal... and he even sez he'll deal even more! Dave, 810-655-6175. 
Somebody must be able to use this!

Also, I see Ron Memmer's ad every month in JWO... anyone ever buy from 
him? I hear he's expensive - true or not?

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: "Dink" <heinle@jake.udayton.edu>
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:55:19 -0400
Subject: Getting wet Part ii

Well it in the 70's here in Ohio and went to drive around today.  
Went to grab the trusty radar detector which i keep under the 
passenger floormat and it's wet!  The carpet is soaked, i tried 
looking for any leaks but didn't see any.  I replaced the heater core 
about 2 years ago, how long are they good for?  I popped the hood to 
find the antifreeze popping and bubbleing after driving around for 
about 45min.  Is this stuff suppose to bubble and pop???

Dink
80 Delta 88 Royale "all wet"

{
Dink           Dayton, Ohio
http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
Computer Information Systems Major @ UD
}

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 18:16:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Getting wet Part ii

> Well it in the 70's here in Ohio and went to drive around today.  
> Went to grab the trusty radar detector which i keep under the 
> passenger floormat and it's wet!  The carpet is soaked, i tried 
> looking for any leaks but didn't see any.  I replaced the heater core 
> about 2 years ago, how long are they good for?  I popped the hood to 
> find the antifreeze popping and bubbleing after driving around for 
> about 45min.  Is this stuff suppose to bubble and pop???
> 
> Dink
> 80 Delta 88 Royale "all wet"

After driving 45 minutes, antifreeze will be hot and bubble and pop.

A heater core should last more than two years, if you take care of it.
Just using water in your cooling system is hard on the metal parts.

Any recent rain?  Melting ice or snow?

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | These opinions are strictly my own,           _____ 
lawrencr@gdls.com |       ____                               ____/__O__\____ 
(810) 825-8007    |   ___<____>======                       /===/-------\===\
                  |  <o_o_o_o_o_o> Tanks, for your support! \___\-------/___/

------------------------------

From: Roger Heath <RHEATH@worldbank.org>
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 18:11:17 -0400
Subject: RE: Memmer

          >Also, I see Ron Memmer's ad every month in JWO... anyone ever 
          >buy from  him? I hear he's expensive - true or not?
          
          >Greg Beaulieu
          
          I bought a hood rear SS molding NOS, $35 + $5 SH. Marginally 
          cheaper than Fusick. Unfortunately that was he all he had that I 
          needed.
          Roger Heath, 71 Delta 88 Royale Convertible  

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 18:23:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Dick Miller Racing Newsletter 

I've received a couple editions.  It's OK but mainly advertising for his shop
and products.  It is not without some value, I just object paying to mostly
fund his advertising.

Or maybe I'm just cheap.  Or maybe it's the two foot tall stack of unread
material (auto and otherwise).

Bob H.

------------------------------

From: "Dink" <heinle@jake.udayton.edu>
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 18:41:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Getting wet Part ii

> After driving 45 minutes, antifreeze will be hot and bubble and pop.
ok, cool

> A heater core should last more than two years, if you take care of it.
> Just using water in your cooling system is hard on the metal parts.
currently using 50/50 solution.
 
> Any recent rain?  Melting ice or snow?
well yeah, we just had 3" of snow monday, but how does that make the 
floor wet??

Thanks for the info.

Dink
80 Delta 88 Royale many mods

{
Dink           Dayton, Ohio
http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
Computer Information Systems Major @ UD
}

------------------------------

From: Willie <aceface@ohana.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 18:34:17 -0400
Subject: Re: '57 Olds still for sale

Dan Dale wrote:
> 
> here it part of the message I got from the seller....it's $800. is that good?
> 
> >The 1957 Olds is for sale and is a 4-door but looks like a 2 door except for
> >the small post -
> >The car was driven into a service station in Cuba Mo over 20 years ago, and
> >abandoned...the owner let the manager have it for storage costs, and his son
> >kept it out at his farm for  all those years, under some trees, so there is
> >some rust due to that and the floors are bad, but it basically looks very
> >restorable...the J-2 engine is the head with a 3 - 2bbl carb setup, and the 371
> >cu in engine is a hemi-head V-8 (called a Rocket 88 Engine I think)....the head
> >is supposed to be worth $500 in any condition and the breather can (the metal
> >housing) which is rare (because they were thrown away and replaced by open
> >Chrome Breathers in the 50's by car nuts), and that breather has been
> >advertised alone for $600 to 1100.00 in Hemmings over the  last few years
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> $Daniel Dale  daleds@okra.millsaps.edu f-list since 2/95 http://www.millsaps.$
> $edu/~daleds/index.html  cars: 1972 Cotner-Bevington Oldsmobile 98 Endloader,$
> $1973 Imperial LeBaron, 1966 Pontiac GTO, 1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-X 5.7TPI$
> $1955 Cadillac Seville, (2) 1969 Cadillac DeVille Convertibles(one for parts)$
> $1976 Cadillac Series 75 Fleetwood Brougham, 1961 Imperial Custom            $
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------



$800? Does it run? If you think the engine is good and it has the origional air cleaner then it is a good deal. There's a lot 
of other cool stuff I'd like to strip off of that car. Unless you are going to restore it? That would be cool too! Not too 
many '57 around. You should get it. If not, I will. REmember to check the floor boards for rust. It gtes really nasty under 
the carpet. Let me know what's up Dan!

Willie!

------------------------------

From: conrad <rad19@icon.net>
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 18:46:44 -0400
Subject: 66TORO TRANNY

I just took the Tranny in for a rebuild.  Can anyone tell me what the 
orig color of it was?  This one has the orangish paint on it but I have 
a picture of it with the Olds Gold color..

Also, was it a TH400 or TH425?

Any Guesses on what it should cost(ballpark) to have done?  I delivered 
it, so the R&R won't be added in.

Thanks, Conrad

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 19:15:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Getting wet Part ii

> > Any recent rain?  Melting ice or snow?
> well yeah, we just had 3" of snow monday, but how does that make the 
> floor wet??

A couple of ways.  If someone tracked snow into your car, it may just have
melted, or melted, refroze, and melted.

Or, if you have a leak, water might have got in, froze and melted, when
the weather got warm.

If snow had a chance to sit on your car, and melt, it may have found a
way in that rain usually doesn't.

It just seems that when it hovers around freezing, and there is snow
and rain for a bunch of days in a row,  H2O finds it's way into my car.

Suddenly, the weather turns nice, and I have a puddle. 

My car is not the most water tight beast in the world, either.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | These opinions are strictly my own,           _____ 
lawrencr@gdls.com |       ____                               ____/__O__\____ 
(810) 825-8007    |   ___<____>======                       /===/-------\===\
                  |  <o_o_o_o_o_o> Tanks, for your support! \___\-------/___/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 23:04:07 -0400
Subject: Re: 66TORO TRANNY

conrad wrote:
> 
> Can anyone tell me what the orig color of it was?  This one has the
> orangish paint on it but I have a picture of it with the Olds Gold
> color..
> I'll go check mine in the morning, as far as I know it's as original 
as can be.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 20:10:26 -0400
Subject: RE: finally

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I'd just like to add that I have a Cutlass that has 2.73 posi in it and gets between 18-20 mpg box stock runs 13.80's


- ----------
From: 	BobH592058@aol.com[SMTP:BobH592058@aol.com]
Sent: 	Wednesday, April 03, 1996 3:47 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Re: finally

A 455 isn't always the gas hog you think.

The '70 SX Cutlass with 2.56 rear gears, TH400, radials and in good tune
could top 20mpg.  Given the power, etc. that's pretty good economy to me. 

Of course, if you can't keep your foot out of that wonderful 365HP motor,
that's  fun and not related to economy.

Bob H.




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From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 20:14:18 -0400
Subject: RE: Dick Miller Racing Newsletter

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The news letter is very informative, well worth the $10. It deals with a =
variety of topics, my personal favorites being new Olds performance =
products as well as following build ups on cars that he is working on. =
I've dealt with Dick on a number of occasions and find him to be very =
helpful and informative, its just too bad that Joe Mondello is getting =
richer off him.

- ----------
From: 	Greg Beaulieu[SMTP:ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca]
Sent: 	Wednesday, April 03, 1996 4:33 PM
To: 	Oldsmobile
Subject: 	Dick Miller Racing Newsletter

I notice in the current JWO that Dick Miller Racing offers a one-year=20
newsletter subscription for $10.00. Does anyone here receive this? If =
so,=20
is it worth the money? What's typically covered in it?

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, =
Canada






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From: Jing Liu <jxl50@dumbo.eeap.cwru.edu>
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 20:41:57 -0400
Subject: RE: bearing noises

Hi, please do not sent anymore mail, it got forwarded to me.

thanks

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 23:44:46 -0400
Subject: EMail Quirk

Anybody beside me see this problem:

Most messages are formatted just fine but messages from a few sender do 
not word-wrap but come in as one log, long line.  Cris Urban's last two 
posting look that way.

I'm running Netscape 2.0's email (threw Pegasus and Eudora in the trash)

The 66 Toro and Mike

- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 21:06:35 -0400
Subject: misc.

Oh, sure, NOW there's a 1972 engine at Padnos, not too beat up either, with 7A
heads, 4V intake with EGR [later convert I presume]. Someone else got the Buick
455 & trans, presumably the Buick enthusiast at the Car Quest store; I told him
to go get it...
   So, I guess I get 7a heads engine tomorrow... maybe this one will need less
that 3 guides replaced...

> >Pass. Side Casting Number 395 752 RH D1 98 (G) Cheap...
>
> is that rh manifold for dual exhaust? if so, does anyone know it would fit
> in a '72 98 chassis? I can't seem to find a rh dual exhaust manifold for a
> reasonable price ANYWHERE.

S'far as I know the Toro manifolds fit NOTHING but Toros. Maybe tractor
conversions [you should see the axles I have for the 'someday' 4WD 455-powered
truck/ tractor...]. What is 'reasonable' price to you? I once sold a pair of
dual xst mans for $50 cuz I needed to pay off the car purchase quick, but have
seen rather rusty ones offered [not nec. SOLD] for $275/pr lately...

> Yes.  For Oldsmobiles, "Holiday" meant a hardtop, whether 2-door or 4-door.
> "Celebrity" meant sedan (pillared), and again, it could be 2-door or 4-door.

Hmmm. My 68 post coupe is referred to in the factory literature as the Sports
Coupe, as opposed to the Holiday Coupe sans post...

> >And then there are those goofy cloth top 4 door sedans with the bows
> >that were a thing not too long ago, I think maybe they took the idea
> >a little too far with that one.  :)
>
> No, actually the ones that take it too far are those with a fake
> convertible top _and_ a sunroof stuck in the middle. What _were_
> they thinking?
> Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431

What were they *drinking* ? :)
- -=-Chris-=-

> >   Tri-carb intake, complete to carbs WITH tags, linkage, most fuel lines, an
> > air cleaners. Came in trunk of 67 442. Car in nearly rustfree, came with
>
>     I am *so* jelous!!!!

Shyeah, I bet... Imagine how I felt when the simple stop to offer a flier,
maybe sell a headlight housing started turning into a purchase... "Heh, I got
some of these things listed here..." "what?" "Oh, 425, 6-pack..." "Really,
where's the 6-pack?" "In the trunk" "can I see it?" "Sure"....
   Opens trunk, there it is, complete with tags... [maintain... calm.... not
too excited, now!...] "Oh, I dunno, will you sell the 6-pack separately?"
"Nope" [Dang!]... "Well, my wife'll kill me if I bring home yet another car..."
[negotiate price...] Go home...
   Now imagine my distress when the wife forbids the purchase even after I
explain what's in the trunk. True, technically we did not have enough $ at the
time, but you CANNOT let that stop you when a tri-carb comes along... So I
franically made calls trying to get a buyer for the body/engine... Finally it
occurs to me that my brother has some $, he agrees to finance, sell the car
later to recover costs.
  But, when we go to get it, he sees the chrome tailpipes, the clean body, the
dual xst manifolds... and he likes it, decides it's a keeper...
  I got the TC intake, he got the car, we split the cost, the wife is happy cuz
we spent minimal $ and there's no CAR in the driveway... Ah, sometime they toss
the dog a bone...

> Chris,
> What was [just sold]? The intake, engine or bumper? I assume it was the intake
> and or engine, because that's what I'm interested in. i
> Am I falling for fools part deux?
> TomM

The C heads sold. Intake's a keeper. No bumper in any good shape. I have a 67
CS bumper, but it has a noticeable ding in it and the backside [front side?] is
rather rusty. No rust-thru yet, but chrome on the hidden side id 90% gone.

> Well, you could fit *all* the Olds parts they list in that catalog on one
> page! Meanwhile, there are about a half-dozen pages devoted to Ch*vy
> *crankshafts*!

Well, often they CAN get you Olds stuff, but you gotta call & ask...
- -=-Chris-=-

- --spun bearings--
> Chris, this is excellent information. I am about to travel an hour to go look
> at a 403 core motor that has "spun" a bearing, though they haven't opened it
> up yet. Now I know what to look for, and what to avoid. Since I want to use
> the block, crank and rods, the information you just provided is crucial for
> my pre-purchase evaluation.

Definitely remove the oil pan and rod caps. Take amicrometer or at least a dial
calipers along for measurement. If you can't inspect the rod journals, you'd
best assume that most rods, crank, and possibly the block/heads are useless and
bargain from that premise. 403's aren't THAT hard to come by... I bought a
whole Cadillac last year with a 403 & a shorty TH400 trans for $150... Still
awaits a Purpose In Life...
- -=-Chris-=-

> From: SG Hartfelder <stanh@compusmart.ab.ca>
> Finally.  Finally.  Finally.  I've found a group of Oldsmobile enthusiasts.
> I own a 1938 Oldsmobile 'Six'.  I'm not sure if this will bother any of you
> but it is a street rod that has a 1972 Nova 350 engine and the like.  It has
> independant front suspension and leather interior.  Doors are electric and
> has centre-line wheels.

Street Rod?! What kinda engine?! Git a rope, boys! [Just kidding....] I might
not contribute a lot to a fat fender discussion but only bcause it's out of my
area of expertise. Love to look at 'em, would love to build one someday... Now,
if you decide to replace that Bl^Howtie engine with a REAL powerplant, with a
capital P, then I'll be right there to advise ya...
- -=-Chris-=-

>           I think Chris was hinting about finding *cool* stuff in trunks,
> etc.!!!     :)      Then again, I picked up a '70 Skylark once (for less
> than a song) and got two cassettes and about five gallons of 90-W!  (No I
> DON"T want to trade 'em for a Bowtie!)  Perhaps the 35 cents worth of empty
> beer cans, now,....       :)
>       Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"

I also got a nice power drill in the trunk of a Cutlass I picked up for pcs,
about 15 yrs ago... The TC intake was not so much a surprise as it was a
driving force to procure that car... but the 70 W30 carb was a true surprise.
Seems like a '69 H/O dist'r was a trunk/ unexpected find, too. Boy, did I get
some calls on that one...
   Sure SOMEBODY else got some easy bonuses, like the D-head engine for scrap
price, even if the cylinders were munched!
- -=-Chris-=-

>      Even without breaking into the "coolness" category, we could still
> shame Chevrolet all day long!
>       Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"

The one thing that amazed me about Ford was that for the entire life of the
points ignition system, they never put a WINDOW in the dist'r cap. You had to
adjust the points by gap, check dwell, readjust, etc. Patent thing? Sheesh.
  then there's the Chrysler engines with 4 valves per cylinder, and the spark
plug in the middle- talk about wasteful :) Hard to reach the plugs, and always
gotta keep them *32* valves in adjustment... Heh...

- --street rod--
> Sounds neat. Too bad about the Chevy but hey, we all have our shortcomings...
> :)

"I cried because I had no 4-barrel carb... then I met a man who drove a C*evy"
                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^                                 ^^^^^
[Insert favorite item and vehicle brand]
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 00:37:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Cris' Misc.

Chris Brown Witt wrote:
> 
> "I cried because I had no 4-barrel carb... then I met a man who drove a C*evy"

Ha-ha.  You're a wit(t), alright!  

I think I'll use Lincoln ... wonder if my wife'll get the joke?

The 66 Toro and Mike

- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: gludlam@bcinet.net (Gregg Ludlam)
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 22:35:58 -0400
Subject: Re: 66TORO TRANNY 

>I just took the Tranny in for a rebuild.  Can anyone tell me what the 
>orig color of it was?  This one has the orangish paint on it but I have 
>a picture of it with the Olds Gold color..

Can't tell...mine has too much grime all over it!

>Also, was it a TH400 or TH425?

According to Olds, it was a Turbohydramatic Transmission - no number
designation, although it's been written that it was a specially adapted
TH400 - with TH400 internals, supposedly.

>Any Guesses on what it should cost(ballpark) to have done?  I delivered 
>it, so the R&R won't be added in.

Hmmm, maybe $400 with new seals, bands, minor clutch stuff, etc.?  Wow - you
pulled it yourself?  Would you be interested in detailing the R&R?  E-mail
me directly!

gludlam@bcinet.net, aka:


- -Gregg, the '67 Toro guy

------------------------------

From: gludlam@bcinet.net (Gregg Ludlam)
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 22:40:59 -0400
Subject: Re: 100th Anniversary Meet 

>Greg Beaulieu wrote:
>> 
>> I was curious to know how many of you are thinking or planning to attend
the Olds 100th anniversary event in Lansing in 1997...

Doin' the OCA Nats in Atlanta instead...little closer from NC than Lansing!
Do the convoy - it'd be awesome!


- -Gregg, the '67 Toro guy

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 00:28:34 -0400
Subject: looking for... 

I am looking for any information on the Bravada truck that Oldsmobile was
GOING to release along with the Bravada...i am currently working on an S-10
that will be converted to a Bravada truck...i was looking through the repair
manual for the '91 bravada and have seen some diagrams of the planned
released truck...my question is:  was the truck going to include the entire
body package, or just the front bumper cover...also what was the planned
interior going to look like?
                    Buddha
      ___
     /. .\
    _\_*_/_                     -<Buddha>-
   / /   \ \                   Buddha@itw.com
   \_\___/_/            HTTP://www2.itw.com/~buddha/
  /___\_/___\ "That which does not kill us makes us stronger"
 *************

------------------------------

From: "Peg O'Connor" <peg@grove.ufl.EDU>
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 02:54:19 -0400
Subject: Re: 100th Anniversary Meet

> I agree....flying is a copout, our cars were meant to be driven and half the
> fun is getting there!
> I live in Mississippi and I am probably going to be going....maybe if we
> got together enough people we could make a procession. With my hearse in the
> lead and our high beams on, traffic might not be so bad if people think it is a
> funeral and pull over to let us by!  I imagine it would be quite a scene to see
> a procession of oldsmobiles led by an 98 hearse pull up at the meet. sound 
> like a plan to anyone????

RAH RAH!!!  (much applause)  We would steal the show!  I say let's do 
it.  Anyone else with us, especially youse guys in the South??

------------------------------

From: "Peg O'Connor" <peg@grove.ufl.EDU>
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 03:00:21 -0400
Subject: Re: 100th Anniversary Meet

> > what's the diff between 1st class and 2nd class?  Just in the 
> > delivery process by the wonderfull US Post Office?
> 
> Yep, think so.

The difference amounts to about three weeks.  Seriously.  I need to 
upgrade my subscription.  By the time I get my copy, all the Oldsified 
stuff is gone, and you guys have been talking about articles I haven't 
even read yet!!!

------------------------------

From: "Peg O'Connor" <peg@grove.ufl.EDU>
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 03:16:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Getting wet

> something pretty soon.  This means a bad heater core (I think that's the
> right name for it), right?  Is there anything else that could cause the
> antifreeze to wind up coming out of the dash (I assume it's coming
> through the heater ducts).  Now for the big question: I don't mind
> turning wrenches myself, but I'm worried that I could be in over my head
> on this one.  So, do I a) try this myself, b) pay somebody to do this,
> c) time for a 350, or d) anybody want an 80 Cutlass real cheap?  FYI,
> it's a 260 V8, A/C, 1980 Cutlass Supreme.  I'm looking for suggestions
> on what to do and if this is something I can tackle myself in the first
> place.  Thanks.

I had the exact same problem with my Calais -- '78 260 V8.  The 
evaporator core was shot, and the passenger side floorboard ended up 
soggy.  I would *strongly* suggest leaving this to a trained, licensed 
professional . . . mine was a m-e-s-s.  Do not silicone the core cover; 
that's a short-term fix, and one that ultimately makes it more difficult 
to repair properly.  It's a bit expensive to fix, but definitely worth 
it, because once it's fixed right, it's fixed pretty much permanently.

------------------------------

From: "Peg O'Connor" <peg@grove.ufl.EDU>
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 03:36:15 -0400
Subject: Re: 100th Anniversary Meet

> Doin' the OCA Nats in Atlanta instead...little closer from NC than Lansing!
> Do the convoy - it'd be awesome!

"Instead"?  "Instead"?!?  Whynot "Both"???  :)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 05:20:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Getting wet 

>So, do I a) try this myself, b) pay somebody to do this,
>c) time for a 350, or d) anybody want an 80 Cutlass real cheap?  FYI,
>it's a 260 V8, A/C, 1980 Cutlass Supreme.  I'm looking for suggestions
>on what to do and if this is something I can tackle myself in the first
>place.  Thanks.

     Well, the 350 would still have a leaky heater core... :)  Don't dump
the car, it's an Olds, for crying out loud!  These cores aren't that tough
at all (lot better than they used to be, which at worst was nothing like a
Ford Granada (anyone seen those done?  Better off crushing the car, not even
taking into consideration it's maker...)  If I remember right, the biggest
tool required was a 10 mm socket.  (Actually, a 10 mm, 1/4", and 9/32"
should take care of 90% of your car!  (excluding mechanicals...)  
     You'll need to pull off that chrome moulding at the base of the
windshield (usually need to have the wipers at the top of their travel)
Also should pull out the blower motor (fan, that is...)  and its relay
nearby.  Now, up in the cowling, there's a screen over the inlet of the
HVAC.  There's something like three or four screws holding that on.  Get a
light and peer down inside that air inlet, and take note of the three screws
(I think 3) that are hiding down there.  These cause the most problems of
the project.  You'll also notice the entire heater case is held to the
firewall (bulkhead) with a supply of 10 mm speed nuts.  There are a few of
those that need to come out, as well.
     Basically, the entire top of that air duct/plenum needs to come off,
and after that, the core will slide right out. (there's a ground strap
screwed to it, but that's pretty simple.)  There is enough sealant around
this plenum to make it stick down fairly well, so you're never really sure
if you got all the screws out of it, which is where those hidden ones can
cause headaches if unnoticed.  Anyway, it's a fairly simple procedure, my
first one took about 45 minutes, could probably do one in 25 now.  Not sure
about flat rate, I can't imagine it'd be that much $$ to hire it out, but I
wouldn't think it'd be worth it.  Especially when you have a complete Olds
tech line at your fingertips here!  (give or take a few hours, anyway...)

     Good luck, any other questions, feel free.....

    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 05:20:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Getting wet Part ii 

>> > Any recent rain?  Melting ice or snow?
>> well yeah, we just had 3" of snow monday, but how does that make the 
>> floor wet??
>
>A couple of ways.  If someone tracked snow into your car, it may just have
>melted, or melted, refroze, and melted.

     Here's a simple solution.  Cough up a few bucks (if needed) and take
the car to a good station and have the cooling system pressure checked.
Many places offer this service for free (they make the money by selling
hoses, etc.)  This should be able to verify any cooling leaks you may be
worrying about.
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 05:20:40 -0400
Subject: re: finally 

>Some guys don't like the chevy stuff and are complete Olds nuts but I 
>see nothing wrong with the most popular small block in history.  If I 
>ever find my 56 and can't afford the aurora engine, i'll buy a 
>totaled 4th gen f-body, i've seen them for $1500 complete with lt-1 
>6speed, etc.   Keeping it all Olds is cool, but I want performance and 
>fuel economy, and I don't think a 455 can give me that.

   --  OK, who wants this one first? !!!    :)

  I'm sure 
>this will start a debate, over olds/other gm stuff, but no where else 
>can I discuss this with a nicer group of Olds nuts.

    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 05:20:38 -0400
Subject: Re: 100th Anniversary Meet 

>On Tue, 2 Apr 1996, buehner wrote:
>> I know it's been asked before, but I never saw an answer.  How do we (or
>> where) find and get that JWO membership/subscription, etc...
>
>I think this is on Bryceman's page but here is the info:
>
>Oldsmobile Club of America
>P.O. Box 80318
>Lansing, Mich., 48908
>
>Dues $30/yr in the USA.

     Cool, thanks, Greg...


    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 05:20:42 -0400
Subject: Re: finally 

>I saw a '38 Olds coupe there.  My dream car.  Had a 455 & TH400 and was for
>sale but no price listed.  Being in the category of "if you have to ask you
>can't afford it" I let it pass.

>Being all Olds is so rare.  It's the only car of that vintage I have seen
>with an Olds drive train.  It was too cool. Black primer with pastel swoops,
>waves, etc.  Arrrgh. I want it!!

     Bob, did you happen to get any pictures?  We can never have too many of
those!

    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 05:20:56 -0400
Subject: Re: finally 

>A 455 isn't always the gas hog you think.
>
>The '70 SX Cutlass with 2.56 rear gears, TH400, radials and in good tune
>could top 20mpg.  Given the power, etc. that's pretty good economy to me. 
>
>Of course, if you can't keep your foot out of that wonderful 365HP motor,
>that's  fun and not related to economy.
>
     Add into those specs a weight reduction of 600 lbs. and even around
3.00 gear range and you should get similar specs. (keeping in mind that
~other~ disclaimer!)    :)
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 05:20:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Getting wet 

>Just about every car requires taking the dash off to replace the heater core.  
>I'm not sure of this, but on a car with a removable heater/fan box (screwed to 
>fire wall), you might be able to replace it throught there.
>
>Keep the parts together in the order they were taken off.  Definitely check
out 
>a manual (Chilton's in a pinch) before/while undertaking this task.

     Actually it was Chilton's that saved my butt on the first one.  They
said to remove the 14 (or something like that) from the upper air plenum.  I
thought it was a typo, and this plenum was just glued down, till I found
those other three screws hidden down inside the air inlet!
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 05:21:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Getting wet 

>I had the exact same problem with my Calais -- '78 260 V8.  The 
>evaporator core was shot, and the passenger side floorboard ended up 
>soggy.  I would *strongly* suggest leaving this to a trained, licensed 
>professional . . . mine was a m-e-s-s.  Do not silicone the core cover; 
>that's a short-term fix, and one that ultimately makes it more difficult 
>to repair properly.  It's a bit expensive to fix, but definitely worth 
>it, because once it's fixed right, it's fixed pretty much permanently.

     Except that the evap. core and heater core are two entirely different
critters from two entirely different systems.  They just share the same room :)
The heater doesn't require any specialized training or cert's, but the A/C
does.  

    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 05:20:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Getting wet 

>Sounds like a heater code problem for sure!  It's an ugly job that usually
>includes removing your dash.  Probably best left to a professional.

     NO NO NO!   Not on an '80  You shouldn't even need to open the door
(except to turn the key on, wipers on till they hit top, then key off again.)
     These are a lot more pleasant than the older ones.  Trust me -- Case in
point:  Blower motors!  (open the hood vs. jerk the fender!)

    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 05:20:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Getting wet 

>It may be your heater core, or it may be the hoses to the heater core.

     Yeah, I've had one case (same carline) where the hose clamp wasn't
tight, and shot right into the heater case, then right onto the floor.
After I got the new core in, I pressure tested the old one (two years
old...) then put it BACK into another car!  Oops!  This is a rather rare
occurance, however, and anytime after 40000 miles, a heater core can be
expected to take a big old dump on the floor.  (Even less if the antifreeze
isn't maintained properly)

    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 07:12:21 -0400
Subject: Re: looking for...

On Thu, 4 Apr 1996, Buddha wrote:
> I am looking for any information on the Bravada truck that Oldsmobile was
> GOING to release along with the Bravada...i am currently working on an S-10
> that will be converted to a Bravada truck...i was looking through the repair
> manual for the '91 bravada and have seen some diagrams of the planned
> released truck...my question is:  was the truck going to include the entire
> body package, or just the front bumper cover...also what was the planned
> interior going to look like?

I remember seeing an article in JWO about someone else who had done this. 
They bought a Bravada grill, Delta 88 SS wheels, an Olds steering wheel, 
emblems and badges. They apparently needed a Bravada rad support to make 
the grill fit. It would be neat to see "Oldsmobile" painted in big block 
letters on the tailgate. Good luck!

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 09:35:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Getting wet 

At 05:20 AM 4/4/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>Just about every car requires taking the dash off to replace the heater
core.  
>>I'm not sure of this, but on a car with a removable heater/fan box
(screwed to 
>>fire wall), you might be able to replace it throught there.
>>
>>Keep the parts together in the order they were taken off.  Definitely check
>out 
>>a manual (Chilton's in a pinch) before/while undertaking this task.
>
>     Actually it was Chilton's that saved my butt on the first one.  They
>said to remove the 14 (or something like that) from the upper air plenum.  I
>thought it was a typo, and this plenum was just glued down, till I found
>those other three screws hidden down inside the air inlet!
>    


I'll add two more data points here, for whatever they're worth.

I had heater core problems with both of my Oldsmobiles.

With the '64 Jetstar, the heater had been bypassed by the previous owner
in a manner discussed here earlier when I bought it.  There was also a big
stain in the carpet on the floor on the passenger side.  

I bought a replacement heater core (from a junkyard, but in excellent shape).
Replacing it meant working under the dash and removing a number of screws.
It was not difficult, just time consuming.
I STRONGLY recomment getting the factory service manual for whatever car
you are working on.  It was invaluable in this case.


With my '75 Delta 88, I was driving down the road one day when suddenly
clouds of vapor came out of the ducts.  I thought immediately that it
was the heater core, but it ultimately turned out to be simpler.  At the
point where the heater hoses attach to the core in the firewall,
there was a loose clamp.  This allowed coolant to leak past, and because
the attachment point was so close to the firewall, the coolant was
dripping down INSIDE the firewall into the area of the heater core.
Once I tightened the clamp, that problem went away.


************************************************
Daniel A. Gulino
Associate Professor and Graduate Chairman
Department of Chemical Engineering
Ohio University
Athens, Ohio  45701-2979
(614) 593-1495
(614) 593-0873 (fax)
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://www.ent.ohiou.edu/che/faculty/gulino.html
************************************************

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #137
********************************

