
oldsmobile-digest          Thursday, 30 May 1996       Volume 01 : Number 190


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Bruce D. Brumm" <bdbrumm@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 21:15:17 -0300
Subject: Re: '84 H/O carb info request

Tom Lentz wrote:
> 
>      Yeah, I heard on the radio a few months ago that the '84 Cutlass was
>      the most stolen.  Of course this was right after I bought my '84 H/O.
>      Sigh.  Thanks guys, I feel so secure now.  :-)

Yup! Every year my mother loves to send me newspaper clippings proclaiming
the fact that two of my cars are the most stolen, etc.  'course I usually 
get some cookies in that package too; life is good!  :)

>      ever again.  So, I'm going to try fixing the problem myself.  I
>      suspect the accelerator pump or maybe float level.  Can someone with
>      an '84 shop manual tell me what the proper float setting is?  Also
>      maybe see if there's any way to ID the accelerator pump and spring to
>      see if they got the right one?  I'm a bit ignorant of some of the
>      carburetor terminology, but I've rebuilt a two Rochester 2bbl's and a
>      1bbl before with good results.

I will haul out the shop manual tonight.  If you had the carb ID that would
be MOST helpful since there are TONS of carb ID's (and therefore models) listed.
I'll look to see if there is a generic reference pertaining to float level, etc.

Stock '84 vin-9 H/O, right?
I'll assume Rochester Q-jet, 4bbl, electronic mixture control, etc.
Until tomorrow...
- -- 

Bruce D. Brumm (bdbrumm@ix.netcom.com)
Network & Systems Administrator
LDM Technologies, Inc.
Troy, MI

'84 Cutlass Supreme 307-Y  -- PLEASE steal!
'86 Cutlass Salon 307-Y  -- please DON'T steal!

------------------------------

From: "Bruce D. Brumm" <bdbrumm@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 20:56:13 -0300
Subject: Re: Wind noise

Tom Lentz wrote:
> 
> I don't get the problem on my '84, or on my '79 when I had it.  On
> both cars sometimes you couldn't roll the window all the way up when
> going more than 50mph.  The aerodynamic effects pulled the window out
> enough that it wouldn't go on the inside of the little black plastic
> "tab" that's in the upper front corner of the window.  Are your tabs

<snip>
Had that exact roll-up problem once on my '84 -- it had to do with how the glass was
adjusted inside the door on its mechanism;  I had it done while I was doing a
door swap (old one was a-flappin') and needed the tinted glass swapped back in.
Almost (!) the best $25.00 I ever spent was having a pro come and install
the tinted glass in the "new" door.  Took him 10 minutes to do what would have
taken me at least an hour or more of tinkering!  He had replaced a winshield
for me previously & I had recommended him to friends, etc. -- so your mileage
may vary on the $25.00.  Anyway try adjusting the bottom of your glass out --
towards the outer door skin.  That keeps the top edge "in" as you roll it up.

> Has anyone out there been able to deal successfully with the wind noise =
> from the coffin size doors on the 86 cutlass supreme? I am sure other =
> models have this problem, where there is no frame to roll the window up =
> into. I am about to take the doors apart and tighten down the window =
> mechanism (mechanical), which rattles anyway, but I also noticed that =
> the rubber gaskets are starting to dry rot. Are those replaceable? I am =
> tired of stuffing a sock in the crack on the passenger door window on =
> long trips. Thanks... Joanne
> Yes the gaskets are replaceable.  I will be replacing all my door gaskets and
t-top gaskets sometime early this summer.  If there is enough interest, I have
access to a digital camera at work & could make a pictoral FAQ for how to
change t-top and door gaskets (prep work, etc.).  I'll even make the mistakes
first and bungle things once or twice to save you all the trouble!  :)

- -- 
Bruce D. Brumm (bdbrumm@ix.netcom.com)
Network & Systems Administrator
LDM Technologies, Inc.
Troy, MI

'84 Cutlass Supreme 307-Y
'86 Cutlass Salon 307-Y

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 20:19:04 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Reatta 

>Wasn't the Reatta hand built??
          
          Buick set up the "Reatta Craft Center" to "hand build" these 
          cars.  I think they used some sort of workgroup concept, 
          where one group of people assembled the car "by hand".  Note 
          that the Reatta was killed a) due to the declining demand 
          for two-seaters and b) because GM wanted to use the Reatta 
          Craft Center to assemble electric cars.  The new GM 
          Impact...er EV-1 will be assembled there.  (There's a 
          brainstorm...Impact as a name for a car.  Sort of like 
          having an optional Napalm package for the Pinto...)
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 18:26:45 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Reatta 

>(There's a 
>          brainstorm...Impact as a name for a car.  Sort of like 
>          having an optional Napalm package for the Pinto...)

My favorite is Alamo: a car rental company named for an event where
all the Americans got killed.

Second prize: Amelia Earhart luggage, named for a traveler who vanished
en route and was never found.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 19:41:35 -0300
Subject: Re: Hot Tanks!!

> >=09Sounds like a good setup...and a lot like mine.  I'm using a 5
> >gallon steel Union 76 oil drum, and Red Devil lye. (Don't use Drano,
> >folks!)
>=20
> Say, I have one of those old single-burner electric hot plates out in the
> garage, would it be a good source of heat for the Lye Tank?

=09Should work.  Just make sure that it can take the weight of five=20
gallons of water.  Steaming lye isn't exactly something you would want=20
spilling :)

> Could I just set the tank right on the hot plate coil and run the plate o=
n
> medium heat or should I build a small stand for the tank to elevate it an
> inch or two above the plate?
>=20
=09I've tried heating mine with an old deep fryer (you remember,=20
from the days when deep fat frying seemed like a good idea...)  First I=20
tried suspending it above the thing, but it really did'nt work. =20
Convection really did'nt do the job.  Unless you're planning on using=20
something like a camp stove (flame powered) plan on having direct contact=
=20
for maximum heat transfer.  Cutting the top of that fryer off worked=20
pretty good, and it's actually strong enough to support the tank. =20
R=CBt=D4I^_>=20
>  EXCESSIVE IRON rules the road!
> '65 442
> '66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender
>  bryceman@442.com
>  www.442.com
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20

------------------------------

From: Aaron Neumann <neumann.12@osu.edu>
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 19:53:53 -0300
Subject: Re: Few Q's concerning '72 88 

>>I've got a problem:  I've got a need for speed and more power. 
>>
>>        Two words:
>>        
>>        Big Block (455, in case anyone though I meant one of those other big
>
>>        block engines)
>>        
>>        My motto has always been "It's not a real engine if it has less 
>>        that 400 cubic inches."  (I assume now we'll hear from the 403 
>>        advocates...)
>
>I concur; even as a 403 owner, I'd say a 455 is the way to go. What you might
>want to do is simply get an early Toronado (pre-'73) that is rusted to the
>gills, make sure it has good compression, pull it, put in new gaskets, timing
>chain and oil pump (nothing else!), and replace your 350 with it. 

Ok, Ok...forget tricking out the 350, I'll start hunting for a 455...I guess
I'd always figured that was overkill...too much work, but I guess it
wouldn't be as bad as I thought.  An engine swap is a little beyond my
experience...but I've got to learn somehow.

Weren't those Toronados fwd?  How'd they fit 455 cu. inches of motor and
tranny and diff all up there?  Just curious.  
>
>OH, and about your TH400. Try a couple of fluid changes, so that you get most
>of the old fluid out; contaminated fluid can play nasty tricks on you when
>the transmission is cold. Heck, it can't *hurt*!
>
Thanks for the advice!

- -Aaron

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 23:40:47 -0300
Subject: Re: Few Q's concerning '72 88

Aaron Neumann wrote:
> 
> Weren't those Toronados fwd?  How'd they fit 455 cu. inches of motor 
> and tranny and diff all up there?  Just curious.

Simple, they got out a BIG chainsaw then folded it in half.  No problem.

BTW: They're not all 455's


The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 22:10:35 -0300
Subject: Re: Few Q's concerning '72 88 

>>>I've got a problem:  I've got a need for speed and more power. 
>>>
>>>        Two words:
>>>        
>>>        Big Block (455, in case anyone though I meant one of those other big
>>
>>>        block engines)
>>>        
>>>        My motto has always been "It's not a real engine if it has less 
>>>        that 400 cubic inches."  (I assume now we'll hear from the 403 
>>>        advocates...)
>>
>>I concur; even as a 403 owner, I'd say a 455 is the way to go. What you might
>>want to do is simply get an early Toronado (pre-'73) that is rusted to the
>>gills, make sure it has good compression, pull it, put in new gaskets, timing
>>chain and oil pump (nothing else!), and replace your 350 with it. 
>
>Ok, Ok...forget tricking out the 350, I'll start hunting for a 455...I guess
>I'd always figured that was overkill...too much work, but I guess it
>wouldn't be as bad as I thought.  An engine swap is a little beyond my
>experience...but I've got to learn somehow.

I once read about 440 from a 350 small block.  A 455 could be made too, if you 
only used it for drag racing.  Some problem with using epoxy in the water 
jackets.  Anybody else remember this article?  I think it was in Popular Hot 
Rod 5 yrs ago.

Roger Borlase
http://www.cjnetworks.com/olds/noframesreg/borlase.html

------------------------------

From: Aaron Neumann <neumann.12@osu.edu>
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 22:10:48 -0300
Subject: Wanted: 455 

Seeking a nice 455...preferably '70 or earlier (like that high compression)
for an engine swap in my '72 Delta 88 (Was 350).  Will also probably need
accessory brackets (alternator, AC) and any other necessary conversion
parts.  I'm in Akron OH...have van, will travel within Midwest.  Also
looking for the appropriate exhaust headers.  E-mail me, otherwise phone
number is (614) 297-7331 until June 5th, after that I'll be at (330)
666-5512.  Thanks.

 _____
|  |  |******************************************
|  |  | "Keep on rockin' in the free world..."  *
|  |  | Aaron Neumann  neumann.12@osu.edu  or   *
| /|\ |	  Akron, OH    75213.656@compuserve.com *   
|/_|_\|******************************************	

------------------------------

From: Dan Williams <dr_olds@kfmw.net>
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 16:31:51 -0300
Subject: Mailing List

Is it me, or is there something fishy with the mailing list.  I only 
have 17 messages since last night, and several of them are duplicates.  
Also, I don't see the message I sent last night about the 68 442.

Just wondering....

- -Dan

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 23:54:01 -0300
Subject: Re: Mailing List 

Dan,

Must be something on your end. I recieved about 70 posts off the list today.

Greg K.

------------------------------

From: Aaron Neumann <neumann.12@osu.edu>
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 01:11:29 -0300
Subject: Re: Few Q's concerning '72 88 

>
>I once read about 440 from a 350 small block.  A 455 could be made too, if you 
>only used it for drag racing.  Some problem with using epoxy in the water 
>jackets.  Anybody else remember this article?  I think it was in Popular Hot 
>Rod 5 yrs ago.
>
Uhhh?  The 455 was a popular option on many Delta 88's of that vintage.  I'm
not sure what the problem would be...but I'd definitly be interested in
knowing if there is one.
- -Aaron

 _____
|  |  |******************************************
|  |  | "Keep on rockin' in the free world..."  *
|  |  | Aaron Neumann  neumann.12@osu.edu  or   *
| /|\ |	  Akron, OH    75213.656@compuserve.com *   
|/_|_\|******************************************	

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 01:40:28 -0300
Subject: Re: Beater suggestions 

In a message dated 96-05-29 01:02:55 EDT, you write:

>I'm sorry - Toronados don't come cheap

Not only do they not come cheap, they can be expensive to maintian. If you
have never owned one before, or you are not familiar with them, expect a real
learning experience! (:

Greg K

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 01:40:35 -0300
Subject: Re: AC/Air Compressor 

In a message dated 96-05-29 17:38:10 EDT, you write:

>I have my 66 TORO in a few hundred pieces and wanted to fix the AC while I
>have the 
>engine/tranny/etc.. out.  Has anyone ever replaced the Fridgadaire (GM)
>compressor?  
>I've called all over town here and nobody rebuilds them here.  I'd prefer to
>rebuild it, 
>has anyone ever done it?  If so, was it very complex?  The seal kit is only
>$7.00.  I 
>can also get a "replacement" for 71.00 or 127.00 with clutch.

Conrad,

Welcome back! Wondered were you were there buddy!

Sorry, never did a clutch/seal job on a compressor. However, after looking at
the shop manual, it looks like you may need some special tools for the job.
But I will dig deeper if you want.

If you are interested, I can photocopy the section and send to you if you
really want to tackel it yourself. Personally, I would send it out (then you
may get a guarantee on it for a few months to last you through summer) and
have it done. However, that may run into some $$$. What??? Nobody rebuilds
them around by you? I find that hard to believe? If you are not against
sending it somewhere, I can find a place for you through the Toro Chapter who
rebuilds them.

E-mail me if I can be of help.

Greg K

------------------------------

From: conrad <conrad@oklahoma.net>
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 01:46:05 -0300
Subject: Re: AC/Air Compressor

Toronado66@aol.com wrote:

> Conrad,

> What??? Nobody rebuilds
> them around by you? I find that hard to believe? If you are not against
> sending it somewhere, I can find a place for you through the Toro Chapter who
> rebuilds them.
>


Greg,
Thanks for the help.  I think I agree with you.  Even if I had the tools, I don't really 
know what is involved.  I would probably rather send it out.  I called every AC place in 
town and nobody knew of anyone who messes with them.  I'm told that the "A6" is the GM 
replacement and they arent worth rebuilding for what you can get a rebuilt for.  I would 
rather keep mine though... I doubt that the newer ones are as good.  For all I know, 
this one may still be good.  If you hear of a good place to send these, I'd appreciate 
hearing about it.  Thanks, Conrad ..

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 19:52:08 -0300
Subject: Service Bulletins and recalls on-line! 

     I thought everyone might want to know that they can find a listing of 
     all recalls and summaries of technical service bulletins affecting 
     their car on-line at http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/.
     
     I don't know how far back the records go, but I got 40 pages of TSB's 
     to print out for my '84 H/O (half of which aren't relevant due to 
     engine type, etc).
     
     For example, there was one about a new part number for door 
     weatherstripping on non t-top model Cutlass's (thicker and denser 
     material) which would directly relate to some of the conversations 
     going on here.
     
     As with most Government services, their server is extrememly slow, so 
     plan on waiting a few minutes for your searches to complete.
     
     Good luck!
     
     Tom L.

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 20:22:08 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Few Q's concerning '72 88 

     He's talking about a 440 or 455 cid *SMALL* block!  Such a beast can 
     be created from a 350 diesel block, a big block crank, lots of machine 
     work, and a few cubic yards of money.  Mondello sells a kit with 
     detailed instructions to make one of these.  I don't know anyone who's 
     ever made one, but I do know that they're really expensive.  You're 
     far better off to start with a big block and use the money you save 
     for something like a complete second car (with built 455 big block 
     engine).
     
     Tom L.

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Few Q's concerning '72 88
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    5/29/96 10:21 PM


>
>I once read about 440 from a 350 small block.  A 455 could be made too, if you 
>only used it for drag racing.  Some problem with using epoxy in the water 
>jackets.  Anybody else remember this article?  I think it was in Popular Hot 
>Rod 5 yrs ago.
>
Uhhh?  The 455 was a popular option on many Delta 88's of that vintage.  I'm 
not sure what the problem would be...but I'd definitly be interested in 
knowing if there is one.
- -Aaron
     

------------------------------

From: Joanne Beausoleil <jbeausol@ftp.com>
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 09:04:45 -0300
Subject: Limerock

Do any of you take your cars to Limerock CT? My car is stock and =
probably always will be so I don't go. But I know some people who do, =
lotus and 3000 gts, but no olds.

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 10:45:02 -0300
Subject: broken dipstick guide tube

Anyone got suggestions for this guy whose 70 Toro dipstick guide tube broke off
at the block?

> From grbrkhrt@kanservu.ca Wed May 29 16:14:40 1996
> Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 16:12:20 -0700
> From: Graham Burkhart <grbrkhrt@kanservu.ca>

- ---I wrote to him:
> > The basic methods seem to be:
> >   1- remove the oil pan, hammer the guide remains upward. Not what
> > you'd like to do, I take it... gets right on into the mitaswells
> > also... In fact, in a Toro, gotta remove the engine to get the Opan
> > off... or, is the Toro engine in a different car?

- ---to which Graham replied:

> This engine is in the original 70 Toronado. Has less than 100K to boot.
> If I must, it won't be the first time I lifted this motor out. I replaced
> the timing chain.
>
> >   2- extract it with a puller similar to Mondello's... basically, you >
> > might try screwing something like a lag screw or one of them
> > sharp-pointy self-threading body bolts of about 5/16" diameter into the
> > tube, then getting a slide hammer under the bolt head and gently
> > tapping it upward.
> >
> > I am assuming that it broke off right at the block as per usual. -Chris-
>
> You are right in the assumption. I think I will give this sharp-pointy
> suggestion a try.-Graham-
> >
> > Cutlass body cars one can access the area from underneath after
> > removing the starter, but prolly not a Toro, eh?
>
> I think I can get at it if I take off the exhaust manifold.
>
> > You could sell me the car for parts :)  -Chris-
>
> I don't think so! -Graham-

Man, are these Toro owners LOYAL, geez. I'll bet the ashtray's full, it goes
too fast, it's too big to park easily, eats gas, I don't see why they keep them
things! :)
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 14:01:36 -0300
Subject: Re: broken dipstick guide tube

Chris Brown Witt wrote:
> 
> Man, are these Toro owners LOYAL, geez. I'll bet the ashtray's full, it 
> goes too fast, it's too big to park easily, eats gas, I don't see why 
> they keep them things! :)

BECAUSE:

    A) The ashtray's full
    B) It goes too fast
    C) It's too big to park easily
    D) It eats gas

And don't forget hard-to-find parts!
 
What more could you ask for?

The 66 Toro and Mike

- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Joanne Beausoleil <jbeausol@ftp.com>
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 11:01:50 -0300
Subject: RE: broken dipstick guide tube

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB4E0F.07D20160
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Duct tape? :)

- ----------
From: 	Chris Brown Witt[SMTP:wittchri@pilot.msu.edu]
Sent: 	Thursday, May 30, 1996 9:45 AM
To: 	wittchri@pilot.msu.edu; oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	broken dipstick guide tube

Anyone got suggestions for this guy whose 70 Toro dipstick guide tube broke off
at the block?

> From grbrkhrt@kanservu.ca Wed May 29 16:14:40 1996
> Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 16:12:20 -0700
> From: Graham Burkhart <grbrkhrt@kanservu.ca>

- ---I wrote to him:
> > The basic methods seem to be:
> >   1- remove the oil pan, hammer the guide remains upward. Not what
> > you'd like to do, I take it... gets right on into the mitaswells
> > also... In fact, in a Toro, gotta remove the engine to get the Opan
> > off... or, is the Toro engine in a different car?

- ---to which Graham replied:

> This engine is in the original 70 Toronado. Has less than 100K to boot.
> If I must, it won't be the first time I lifted this motor out. I replaced
> the timing chain.
>
> >   2- extract it with a puller similar to Mondello's... basically, you >
> > might try screwing something like a lag screw or one of them
> > sharp-pointy self-threading body bolts of about 5/16" diameter into the
> > tube, then getting a slide hammer under the bolt head and gently
> > tapping it upward.
> >
> > I am assuming that it broke off right at the block as per usual. -Chris-
>
> You are right in the assumption. I think I will give this sharp-pointy
> suggestion a try.-Graham-
> >
> > Cutlass body cars one can access the area from underneath after
> > removing the starter, but prolly not a Toro, eh?
>
> I think I can get at it if I take off the exhaust manifold.
>
> > You could sell me the car for parts :)  -Chris-
>
> I don't think so! -Graham-

Man, are these Toro owners LOYAL, geez. I'll bet the ashtray's full, it goes
too fast, it's too big to park easily, eats gas, I don't see why they keep them
things! :)
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu




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- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB4E0F.07D20160--

------------------------------

From: Travis L McWaters <travism@utdallas.edu> 
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 11:15:15 -0300
Subject: Re: alternator vs generator

> > Physically, there is little visual difference between them except that 
> > the alternator's diodes are often visable on the rear of the housing.  
> > They resemble beer caps: round, gold or silver, pressed into place.
> 
> Practically, what are the differences?  Is an alternator better because 
> it's more stable?

Without a lecture in electronics, the "pratical" difference is that
a generator's output varries with engine RPM, whereas an alternator's
output is more or less stable w.r.t. changes in RPM.  

So if your engine spends a lot of its life at low RPM, and you have 
lots of electronic gadgets sucking power from the electrical system, 
(such is usually the case with cars stuck in rush hour traffic)
a generator might not be enough to provide power to the system.  
In this case, the "extra" power needed comes form the batt, which in
turn gets drained when we want it to be charged, and sooner or later
you have a dead batt.  We all know how much fun that is... 

- -- Travis

------------------------------

From: clark@sh28.dseg.ti.com (Pat Clark 952-3776)
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 11:25:25 -0300
Subject: Re: alternator vs generator

> > Practically, what are the differences?  Is an alternator better because 
> > it's more stable?
> 
> Without a lecture in electronics, the "pratical" difference is that
> a generator's output varries with engine RPM, whereas an alternator's
> output is more or less stable w.r.t. changes in RPM.  


As I had posted previously, Classic Auto Restorer magazine has an excellent
article in this months issue on this very subject (along with a beautiful cover
story on a 71 442 W-30 ragtop!) Check it out for some good information.


          ___              ___        _________
         /   |            /   |      /         \
        /    |           /    |     |   ___    |
       /     |          /     |     |__|   |   |
      /      |         /      |           /   /   
     /       |        /       |          /   /   
    /   /|   |       /   /|   |         /   /
   /   /_|   |__    /   /_|   |__      /   /
  |             |  |             |    /   /
  |______     __|  |______     __|   /   /_____
         |   |            |   |     |          |      Pat Clark
         |___|            |___|     |__________|       69 442
						      400/400

   "Just your average 300+hp garage hogging, gas sucking, money pit"

------------------------------

From: clark@sh28.dseg.ti.com (Pat Clark 952-3776)
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 11:22:13 -0300
Subject: RE: broken dipstick guide tube

Joanne wrote:

> From oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca Thu May 30 09:09 CDT 1996
> From: Joanne Beausoleil <jbeausol@ftp.com>
> To: "'oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca'" <oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
> Subject: RE: broken dipstick guide tube
> Date: 	Thu, 30 May 1996 11:01:50 -0300
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> 
> Duct tape? :)
> 
 Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
> wittchri@pilot.msu.edu
> 

Large untrimmed post snipped...

Please don't take this the wrong way but you really need to edit your follow-up
postings by snipping out previously posted material. We had a rather long 
discussion on this a few months ago here on the list and we all decided that
this was one of the biggest problems we had. Don't get me wrong, post all you
want and keep the witty one liners coming (along with that Mike guy with the 
Toro! ;)

Man, I feel like Greg B. saying this stuff!


          ___              ___        _________
         /   |            /   |      /         \
        /    |           /    |     |   ___    |
       /     |          /     |     |__|   |   |
      /      |         /      |           /   /   
     /       |        /       |          /   /   
    /   /|   |       /   /|   |         /   /
   /   /_|   |__    /   /_|   |__      /   /
  |             |  |             |    /   /
  |______     __|  |______     __|   /   /_____
         |   |            |   |     |          |      Pat Clark
         |___|            |___|     |__________|       69 442
						      400/400

   "Just your average 300+hp garage hogging, gas sucking, money pit"

------------------------------

From: <tc75918@hpr169.mdhc.mdc.com>
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 11:34:21 -0300
Subject: Re: Wind noise

> > Yes the gaskets are replaceable.  I will be replacing all my door gaskets and
> t-top gaskets sometime early this summer.  If there is enough interest, I have
> access to a digital camera at work & could make a pictoral FAQ for how to
> change t-top and door gaskets (prep work, etc.).  I'll even make the mistakes
> first and bungle things once or twice to save you all the trouble!  :)
> 

Yes!  Please do this.  I'm re-claiming my '85 Salon from my parents shed this
fall and will be replacing the driver side door and all door and T-top seals.
This kind of pictoral faq would be great.

- --Dan

------------------------------

From: dvigarino@VNET.IBM.COM
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 12:18:35 -0300
Subject: W27 aluminum center piece rearend

How many were produced for 1970?

------------------------------

From: Michael Blennerhassett <blenner@fhs.csu.McMaster.CA>
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 13:23:15 -0300
Subject: Re: 66 Toro AC Compressor

The comments about rebuilding vs. swapping for a rebuilt unit fit my 
experience.

First, a shop with some mental flexibility will fit a later 
non-Toro unit, allowing you to pick up a wrecking yard unit (cheap).  Of 
course, this can be a lttle annoying, if it does not work well and you 
then have to take it off, go back and get another one from the yard (mine 
don't test 'em, they just sell 'em....)  I did it, $40, was OK for a year.
  
Then, I bought a rebuilt (by GM, no less)  one, with a warranty. It was $170 
with clutch, I think. This was the best alternative, and the one that I 
recommend.

Rebuilding it yourself? not an option, I think, unless you have a serious 
yen for the difficult and complex.  It seems to be serious work to get 
right; even my A/C shop sends them out to a major central rebuilder.

For what its worth...

A Canadian 1966 Toro

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 12:33:41 -0300
Subject: Re: AC/Air Compressor 

>I'm told that the "A6" is the GM replacement and they arent worth 
>rebuilding for what you can get a rebuilt for. I would rather keep 
>mine though... I doubt that the newer ones are as good.

I'm confused; from what I was told by a couple of different mechanics,
and learned myself in the course of throwing money at these things,
the A6 is the older, long, tubular design that was worth fixing, but
the stubby newer-design R4 (or RX-4) was junk. I bought an allegedly
rebuilt one that was DOA, in fact. Just my $.02...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Shawn M. Twomey" <stwom@ctp.com>
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 14:01:25 -0300
Subject: Olds FAQ on the web 

Nobody else spoke up, so I threw the FAQ up on my home page (after
converting to a text file).  I'm not sure if Bryce wants to keep it at
442.com or not, but for now you can see it at my site if its convenient for
you to use the web.

http://www.cps.msu.edu/~twomeysh

Its about 124K, so going there with a modem will take a while, but your
browser will probably let you read the top of it as the rest loads in.

Actually, I'd like to see it in hypertext, and wouldn't mind doing the
conversion, but then of course there'd be no way to coordinate updates,
unless David wanted to make his updates to the html document I (or whoever)
produced.

Again, I'd like to express my gratitude to David for putting this thing
together.  124K is a lot of work, and it looks great.  I don't want to sound
TOO elitist, but I think compared to some of the other car groups out there,
our internet presence (Bryce's page, the mailing list, the FAQ) is a cut above.

__________________________________________________________________________
Shawn M. Twomey     |  "No!  Try NOT!  Do, or do not.  There is no try."
stwom@ctp.com       |  -Yoda
__________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 15:14:05 -0300
Subject: Re: 66 Toro AC Compressor 

I echo the comments about rebuilding what you have rather than picking up 
someone else's problems in a rebuild.  Rebuilt alternators generally only 
get the failed parts replaced, so you get old diodes, voltage regulator, 
and bearings, and one new part to replace the failed part.  I can do that.

With a rebuild or chassis manual, it shouldn't be too hard.  I'm no expert 
either.  I've replaced the clutch on an A6, evacuated and charged a few, 
and diagnosed a few.  Taking off the clutch requires a special tool and a 
spanner wrench.  Maybe you could rent, borrow the tools, or have the clutch 
pulled/installed by a shop.  There are a number of snap rings on the shaft, 
so an assortment of heads for a snap wring pliers is needed.

A seal kit is probably all it needs.  There are various stages of teardown 
and rebuilding of the compressor.  Did it make any noise while running?  Is 
the pulley hard to turn by hand?  These would indicate more work.

My recommendation: Get a manual.  Do the teardown to put in a seal kit.  
Inspect wear surfaces, make judgements.  If the compressor has not been 
beat to death, and in general the car has been maintained, you will be 
ahead by doing a rebuild.

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    "Oldsmobile - powerful roadsters with big V8s"
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 14:43:04 -0300
Subject: Colors

Somebody posted a message here a day or two ago listing the colors 
available on '68s. It reminded me of the process I went through when I 
was having my '68 painted and was looking thru the paint chip chart for 
that year trying to decide whether to select the original color or do a 
change.

Is it just me or are the color choices available on new cars these days
pretty limited? Seems to me that there were 20 or more colors available in
'68, but I seem to see the same colors everywhere on new cars these days,
including that teal blue-green which is my most unfavorite car color (my
Cutlass was on the bluish side of that shade, no more though) except 
maybe for that easter-egg mauve they use on Neons. Suppose I'll hear from 
all kinds of teal lovers now... ;-)

Anyway, the other thing that would really disappoint me if I was going to
buy a new car these days is the interior color choice. Basically it seems
you don't have much to choose from, either shades of gray or taupe fabric,
or tan or black leather. Every rental car I've had the last few years has
been either gray or taupe inside and I don't really consider them colors.
What ever happened to the halcyon days of white, parchment, bright blue or
red or green or gold interiors? With color-coordinated dashboards, please?
At the new car show last month the neatest interior was on a Sunfire that
had a 2-tone black and burnt-orange/red interior that stood out like a cat
at a dog convention... it was a little bright, but I gotta give them
credit for trying to be a little different. 

If I ever get to the point where I need to redo my interior, I'll do it 
in parchment (it's black right now and is a little like being in a coal 
mine). On parchment hardtops, aside from the seats, armrests and door 
panels, what else is colored parchment? The headliner? Parcel shelf?

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 15:14:00 -0300
Subject: Re: Hot Tanks!!

	Ok, lets try this one again, folks.  The last time I tried to write 
this on a friends computer, it had a major fart and sent the message 
before I was even finsished with it.  Here goes...

> > Say, I have one of those old single-burner electric hot plates out in the
> > garage, would it be a good source of heat for the Lye Tank?
> 
> 	Should work.  Just make sure that it can take the weight of five 
> gallons of water.  Steaming lye isn't exactly something you would want 
> spilling :)
> 
> > Could I just set the tank right on the hot plate coil and run the plate on
> > medium heat or should I build a small stand for the tank to elevate it an
> > inch or two above the plate?
> > 
> 	I've tried heating mine with an old deep fryer (you remember, 
> from the days when deep fat frying seemed like a good idea...)  First I 
> tried suspending it above the thing, but it really did'nt work.  
> Convection really did'nt do the job.  Unless you're planning on using 
> something like a camp stove (flame powered) plan on having direct contact 
> for maximum heat transfer.  Cutting the top of that fryer off worked 
> pretty good, (so its a flat platform with a huge heating element under 
a pice of aluminum) and it's actually strong enough to support the tank.  
	
	It also has one of thoes huge dial thermostats so controlling the 
heat is cake.  
	Another thing that might work (that I have'nt tried) would be 
putting some sort of heating element right into the tank.  I'm sure that 
there are submergable elements out there that would work.
	It seems like cooking the stuff at a simmer works great, and I doubt 
that getting it much hotter (ie. boiling) would help much, and it would 
evaporate the water much quicker.

			Scott
		1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 13:56:16 -0300
Subject: Re: Colors 

>Is it just me or are the color choices available on new cars these days
>pretty limited?

Hear, hear. I still remember the gorgeous really-light-yellow color of
our old '69 family station wagon -- heck, I even remember the _name_ of
the color: it was Mayfair Maize. Haven't seen anything coming close to
that color recently. Come to think of it, I haven't seen yellow recently
on any car that didn't have a meter on the dash and a sign on the roof.

My favorite color combo is burnt orange metallic (a Ch*vy color name, but
it was used across the lines) with a tan interior.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 15:34:25 -0300
Subject: Re: Hot Tanks!! 

> I'd like to build a larger lye hot tank for more general use.  In
> addition to Olds parts, I have a lot of Old Bungalow windows and doors
> that need paint removed...
> 
> So what if I built a large tray that could hold a door perhaps out of
> fiberglass then had a mini residential hot water heater hooked up to
> some pipes/hoses and a pump that could send the lye to the hot water
> heater then have it go back to the tank? The lye would cycle around
> and the thermostat on the hot water heater would control the temp.
> 
> Would this work?

	Interesting idea...
It would probibly work, since NaOH does not really do anything to plastic 
(don't think it would hurt fiberglass...but then, I have'nt ever tested 
that either!)  Only problem I can think of is the fact that lye does seem 
to oxidize copper, which the hot water heater probibly uses for 
plumbing.  It might eventually eat through the lines.  
	
	You could probibly hook up a tank to heat by some other means (small 
burner/electric heater...like a regular hot tank) and find a small pump 
to carry the hot solution from a fitting in the side of the tank into 
fiberglass trough.  Then use another pump for a return.  Sort of like 
this..      
  	+   +      +
          +     +
	--------------
	|            |
	|	     |           |----|    |				   |
	|    Lye    =|===========|    |====| 	Trough of hot Lye	   |
        |            |  Steel or |----|    |				   |
	|            |  Plastic   Pump     ---------------------------------
	|            |  Line				| |
	--------------    ----|============================
	    ++++++  |=====|   |			Return Line		
	    ++++++	  |   |	
	    Burner	  -----			
			  Return Pump


	Then you would also have the tank to use by itself for things that 
need to be deeper.  Hmmm.  Just had a thought.  If the trough was deep 
enough, you could soak things like fenders in it....:)
	
			Scott
		1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: <clint@boto.netherworld.org>
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 15:46:16 -0300
Subject: Re: Colors

> that color recently. Come to think of it, I haven't seen yellow recently
> on any car that didn't have a meter on the dash and a sign on the roof.

they still make 'Vettes in Yellow.  The last car 'sides that I know of was
the yellow '93 T/As.

> My favorite color combo is burnt orange metallic (a Ch*vy color name, but
> it was used across the lines) with a tan interior.

My least fovorite color is the split pea soup green as seen on Dodge
Neons.  8^P

Clint

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 14:48:58 -0300
Subject: Re: Hot Tanks!! 

> > Say, I have one of those old single-burner electric hot plates out in the
> > garage, would it be a good source of heat for the Lye Tank?
> 
> 	Should work.  Just make sure that it can take the weight of five 
> gallons of water.  Steaming lye isn't exactly something you would want 
> spilling :)

FWIW, water weighs about eight pounds a gallon, so plan accordingly.

Y'know, I don't mean to sound anal-retentive about this, but aren't
there some clear directions out there somewhere on exactly how to set
up a hot tank, what measurements of chemicals to dump in to how much
water, and that sort of thing? NO FLAME INTENDED HERE, but I've been 
reading an awful lot of guesswork and approximations on this topic from 
the same people who worry about thousandths-of-an-inch discrepancies in
their engines. Aren't we being a little inconsistent here, folks? :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 08:40:22 -0300
Subject: Re: Colors 

You have to remember that with rental cars they need to please everyone, sort of
like why most rental appartments and houses all have white interior walls.

Also, with rental cars they want to be able to easily sell them afterwards.  So 
they pick fairly neutral interior (and exterior) colors.

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Colors
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    5/30/96 11:10 AM

     Every rental car I've had the last few years has been either gray or 
     taupe inside and I don't really consider them colors. What ever 
     happened to the halcyon days of white, parchment, bright blue or red 
     or green or gold interiors?

------------------------------

From: clark@sh28.dseg.ti.com (Pat Clark 952-3776)
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 18:01:28 -0300
Subject: Dooh!

>From the Homer Simpson Doooh! department:

My wife works transfering titles for a used car dealer. He had a 64 F-85
out on a note (Tote-the-Note) that he was in the process of repossessing.
Told him to tell me when he got it back and I would give him a cash offer
on it. Checked back with him this week and he tells me he already unloaded
it for $100!!!. Said the engine was blown! Needless to say I was a slight bit 
dissapointed!

Oh well, I'm looking for a ragtop anyway....


          ___              ___        _________
         /   |            /   |      /         \
        /    |           /    |     |   ___    |
       /     |          /     |     |__|   |   |
      /      |         /      |           /   /   
     /       |        /       |          /   /   
    /   /|   |       /   /|   |         /   /
   /   /_|   |__    /   /_|   |__      /   /
  |             |  |             |    /   /
  |______     __|  |______     __|   /   /_____
         |   |            |   |     |          |      Pat Clark
         |___|            |___|     |__________|       69 442
						      400/400

   "Just your average 300+hp garage hogging, gas sucking, money pit"

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 17:05:50 -0300
Subject: ...And the "Duh" Award Goes To... 

The dork I saw yesterday in the black '93 F*rd Probe GT with personalized
license plates reading "BLK GT 93". Gee, thanks; if the car wasn't
captioned for the hearing-impaired, I guess we wouldn't know what he was
driving. He paid extra to get those plates, too, and that was the best
he could think of? Wow. Kind of limits his options for replacement cars,
too, doesn't it?  :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: jrjet@whidbey.net (Dot & Tim McChesney)
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 18:50:43 -0300
Subject: fisher body sign 

>Hi all,
Looking for a body by Fisher sign if there are any out there. Something
worth hanging on the wall, old perferable, new if I have too.

Tim Mcchesney
71 Cutlass convert

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From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 18:46:42 -0300
Subject: lye

OK, 3 times the lye, 1/2 the water, see what happens...
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

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From: Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 21:51:18 -0300
Subject: 403 Solid Webs!

403 Olds Solid Main Web Engines

2500 produced
Block Casting #557265-4A or 553990-4A
Mostly found in certain 1977 Buick Station Wagons built in 1976.
Can be found in Pontiac Bonneville (year?) with tow package.
Can also be found in 1979 Pontiac Trans Am with tow package and block 
casting #554990-4A
Block casting number is found behind the timing cover between the oil 
fill tube and the oil sending unit.



Source: Mondello Olds V-8 Engine Technical Reference Manual

GOT IT TODAY, lots of fun reading here, if you like tech stuff, like me!


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Michael R. Hall                            Ortonville, Michigan
E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com
Owner: 1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
Owner: 1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...
Owner: 1994 GMC Sonoma Club Coupe SLS Pickup.
         Brought to you by a Apple Power Macintosh 7100/80
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #190
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