
oldsmobile-digest          Wednesday, 29 May 1996       Volume 01 : Number 189


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 19:53:22 -0300
Subject: Re: '68 442 

          
A few more questions:
Does anyone know what the factory colors were in '68 for 442's? The car is 
currently blue-gray.
What did the deck stripe(s) look like? Single or Double? Colors?

        The only factory stripes were "bumble bee" type stripes on the 
        front fenders.  These ran vertically from the chrome trim strip 
        to the base of the fender, centered on the 442 emblems.  The 
        main stripe was about 4 inches wide, with a 1/4 (?) inch stripe 
        on either side.  The stripes were standard with the W-30 and 
        optional on other 68 442s.
        
I am under the impression that this car was not offered with a 455 AND the 
manual trans.

        The only big block offered in 68 was the 400 (externally identical to 
        the 455) and available with a three speed manual (standard), a 4 spd 
        (opt) or a TH400 (opt).  Yes, the 68 H/O _was_ available with a 455, 
        but I assume you would know if you were looking at an H/O.
        
        If I could quickly resurrect a prior thread here, the HD 3 spd was a 
        Dearborn (read FORD) unit, related to the Ford top-loader.  Note that 
        this is as opposed to the Saginaw standard-duty 3 spd installed in 6 
        and 8 cylinder Cutlasses and F-85s.  An interesting transmission swap 
        would be to use parts from the HD 3 spd to install a Ford toploader in 
        a 442.  Definitely a bulletproof trans.
        
What is correct? a 400? a 350? Can we tell by the VIN #?

        All 68 442s came with 400 engines.  All 68 442s also have unique VINs 
        (ie, the 442 was a separate model in 68, as opposed to an option package 
        on the Cutlass/F-85 line as in previous years).  First five digits of 
        the VIN for a non-post (Holiday coupe) 442 should be 34487.
        
I'm thinking of dropping in a '75 455 out of a 98, possibly rebuilt to '68 
specs. Comments?

        Small heads...small ports...thin wall block...smog gear...you'll have 
        to drill the crank for a pilot bearing for the 4 spd.  Unless you're 
        going to do a 100 point restoration on the car and only drive it on 
        and off the trailer, I would definitely go with a 455, however you 
        may want to consider a different engine as a starting point.  
        Certainly the 75 can be built into a strong motor, but if you can 
        find an earlier motor, or one with better heads, you will probably be 
        money ahead.  Also, check emissions requirements in your area - you 
        could be required to upgrade emissions controls to the year of the 
        engine (assuming the high school dropouts working at the testing 
        station knew how to tell the year of the engine).  While you're at 
        it, go for disc brakes and a suspension upgrade (anti-sway bars, 
        bushings, tires, stiffer, lower springs, etc.)  At the risk of 
        starting a major battle, I have to say that I've always thought the 
        68s were the best-looking 442s.
        
        Joe Padavano
        jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
        
        66 442
        68 W-30
        69 H/O
        70 W-30

          
          
          

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 19:55:31 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: old 1989 cutlas sup ignition switch  

The ignition switch will not shut off the engine or release the key.
          
What do I do and where can I get copies of the shop manual pages to 
explain the repair steps needed?

        I have a 69 factory service manual, from which I could 
        photocopy the pages and fax/mail them to you.  Email me 
        directly with your info
        
        Joe Padavano
        jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
        
        66 442
        68 W-30
        69 H/O
        70 W-30
          
          

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 11:52:08 -0300
Subject: Re: Lye, PBrakes 

     My fiance's '78 C*evy truck, used-to-be-diesel converted to a 350 
     (gas) olds still has this system.  The brakes are run off a line from 
     the power steering pump.  I was a bit leery about this when we bought 
     it, having never seen or dealt with anything like it before, but I 
     must say the system hasn't needed to be touched in the two years we've 
     had it, and from the driver's perspetive you'd never know they weren't 
     vacuum operated power brakes unless I told you.
     
     A diesel truck might be a good source for one of these units.  You'd 
     probably have to custom bend a bit of the hard line since things are 
     at different heights in the trucks.
     
     Plus, the _DIESEL_ badges on the sides of the truck are the world best 
     theft-deterrent system!


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Lye, PBrakes
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    5/28/96 1:52 PM

  Then, the other day, as I was extracting pcs off a Caddy that donated its
403... the answer occured to me! Diesels got power brakes from a hydraulic unit 
that used power steering pressure! There ya go... power brakes, power steering, 
AND a rowdy cam... Problem solved. Yet another use for Diesel cars!
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist 
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu
     

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 20:08:55 -0300
Subject: Re: Beater suggestions 

          
          
     So.... anybody got any good suggestions?
          
          Mid-70s Olds Starfire (nee Monza)?  Small car, RWD, Buick 
          V6, but rarely seen anymore.  The other disadvantage is that 
          you will foreve be tempted to drop in an Olds 403...
          
          Small pickup (S-10, for example)?  Parts chaser, possibly 
          4X4 for the winter...of course if you get the S-10, you'll 
          be tempted to install the Bravada nose and Olds 403...
          
          Do you detect a trend here?
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 19:21:43 -0300
Subject: Re: Beater suggestions

>      So.... anybody got any good suggestions?

Is the list server working properly?  This thread has been going on
for several hours, and nobody has suggested a Toronado.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-8007    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 20:24:22 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Lye, PBrakes 

          
 My fiance's '78 C*evy truck, used-to-be-diesel converted to a 350 (gas) olds 
 still has this system.  
 
        Can we talk?
        
        My 85 Chevy crewcab dually 4 x 4 (currently with 454) has >140K 
        miles and desperately needs an engine.  It _wants_ a 455!  I've 
        always assumed that I could use the diesel motor mounts to do 
        this swap (accounting for the differences between the 350 and 
        the 455).  I'd like to talk about your swap.  Please email me 
        directly.
        
        This brings to mind an article from an early 70s issue of Hot 
        Rod.  It was a feature on a drag racer running a 70(?) W-30 in 
        pure stock.  His transporter was a similar vintage Chevy one ton 
        on which he had removed the bed and installed ramps for the 
        Olds.  The best part is that the truck engine was his spare W-30 
        race motor!  The logic makes perfect sense.  Should the truck 
        break down on the way to the track, simply pull the replacement 
        part off of the race car.  Should the race car blow the motor at 
        the track, he has a "spare" in the truck.
        
        Joe Padavano
        jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
        
        66 442
        68 W-30
        69 H/O
        70 W-30
        85 Crewcab dually 4x4

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 22:36:40 -0300
Subject: Re: Thank-you.

SG Hartfelder wrote:

> Thanx.

Your welcome and any time, pal.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Dave Voorhis <dave@armchair.mb.ca>
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 19:34:27 -0300
Subject: Re: Beater suggestions 

At 07:21 PM 28/05/96 -0300, you wrote:
>>      So.... anybody got any good suggestions?
>
>Is the list server working properly?  This thread has been going on
>for several hours, and nobody has suggested a Toronado.

He said "beater", so, you know...

Dave Voorhis, Yet Another Toro Guy
dave@armchair.mb.ca
http://www.armchair.mb.ca/~dave

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 22:38:40 -0300
Subject: Re: Beater suggestions

Robert Lawrence wrote:
> 
> >      So.... anybody got any good suggestions?
> 
> Is the list server working properly?  This thread has been going on
> for several hours, and nobody has suggested a Toronado.

I thought he said he wanted a BEATER.      ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike

- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 12:52:33 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Lye, PBrakes 

     No, that one is electrically operated.  I have heard they're a pain 
     too, but I also just heard that an aftermarket company is selling 
     remanufactured/reengineered ones that have the bugs worked out.
     
     This could be another solution to the vacuum problem.
     
     Here's my stupid question for today:  Where does one get vacuum from 
     (for anything: vac. adv, heater controls, PCV, EGR, etc) when running 
     a blower?  I'd think that when the throttle is more than cracked open 
     you'd have no vacuum at all, or worse yet a positive vacuum.
     
     Tom L.
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Lye, PBrakes
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    5/28/96 3:22 PM


This isn't the infamous "Power master" or whatever it was called that was 
used on Grand Nationals is it?  From what I hear, such a system is one of 
the major areas on stock GN's that need attention as it breaks down 
rather frequently...
     

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 20:06:36 -0300
Subject: Re: '68 442 

In a message dated 96-05-28 16:22:00 EDT, you write:

>Found a '68 442 Holiday Hardtop (no post) project car. This car was
>supposedly in a barn for 22 years.
>No motor, but has the Muncie 4 spd w/ Hurst 442 shifter & bell housing &
>flywheel.
>All logos are there, as are grilles, bumpers, lenses.
>Appears to have had rt. rear quarter replaced some years ago. Small rust
>hole on seam where joined to rocker.
>Otherwise, very rust free for a Northern Michigan car.
>
>Firm asking price or $650. What does everyone think?

If you've got a 455 ready to go in there, and time for such a project, I'd go
for it! Since the original motor is missing, you can have fun with its
replacement, though you'll have to drill the crank of most any 455 you use
for the pilot bearing.

Also, do the brakes! 22 years turns brake fluid to marmalade...(ancient
chinese secret; *that*'s what the red stuff on the pork you ordered was)
You'll have a real, though incorrect, 442 for about $1500; can't beat that!
(unless I can get my Toro on the road for under $600...)

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 20:06:39 -0300
Subject: Re: Few Q's concerning '72 88 

In a message dated 96-05-28 12:06:09 EDT, you write:

>I've got a problem:  I've got a need for speed and more power. 
>
>        Two words:
>        
>        Big Block (455, in case anyone though I meant one of those other big

>        block engines)
>        
>        My motto has always been "It's not a real engine if it has less 
>        that 400 cubic inches."  (I assume now we'll hear from the 403 
>        advocates...)

I concur; even as a 403 owner, I'd say a 455 is the way to go. What you might
want to do is simply get an early Toronado (pre-'73) that is rusted to the
gills, make sure it has good compression, pull it, put in new gaskets, timing
chain and oil pump (nothing else!), and replace your 350 with it. For (well)
under $700, you can have 350 easy horsepower; it would cost a lot more to get
that from your 350ci motor, and the hp wouldn't be as useable. And you can do
such a swap in less than a week (assuming you figure out what you'll do about
an exhaust).

Why do nothing else, while you've got the motor out? Well, having a motor out
with the pan off is too much a temptation, and "shipwright's disease" will
instantly set in. Especially if this is a first-time project.

I know this from experience, both personal and a friend's. He had a '71
Cutlass Convertible, nice shape, but with a 350. He bought a '74 98 that ran
beautifully, rented the hoist, and pulled the motor. I urged him to just drop
it straight into the convert, but he wanted to "freshen it up". You all know
what happened; tore it down, lost time, interest and money, and it never got
back together again.

My personal experience is still sitting in the driveway... heck, it's only
been 12 years now...  :(

OH, and about your TH400. Try a couple of fluid changes, so that you get most
of the old fluid out; contaminated fluid can play nasty tricks on you when
the transmission is cold. Heck, it can't *hurt*!

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 20:31:58 -0300
Subject: Re: Beater suggestions

> >Is the list server working properly?  This thread has been going on
> >for several hours, and nobody has suggested a Toronado.
> 
> He said "beater", so, you know...

It's apparent the list server is working fine...

On a related topic...

Many years ago, I heard of a Toronado Trofeo (sp?), that they advertised
as going from 0-50 in 4.1 seconds.  I believe this Toronado had the
Buick Grand National V6 in it.  I am not sure what year that was, but
I will guess that it was '88 (+/- 4 years).  Anybody know anything
about this.

I have a friend who has a 91 or 92 Trofeo.  It has 3.8L V6 (non-turbo).
The neatest thing about this car is that the radio, heater, and a 
bunch of other stuff are controlled using a CRT in dash.

This Trofeo is a small car.  I don't know when they started making
them, in this style, but it is unlikely you'll find one for $300-500.

I am pretty ignorant of late model cars (like past '75), but I have
a small rust bucket Che*y Celebrity station wagon as a loaner, while my car is
in the shop.  I can't believe it's worth more that $500.  Surely, there
is (a much higher quality, of course) Olds corporate sister of this car. 

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-8007    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 21:30:25 -0300
Subject: 403 engine kit

will the person who told of the PST ??? 403 kit please send me that info again?
Or, did someone save that message? I'd like to know how to contact the
supplier, and a list of the goodies for the cost would be nice too.
Accidentally erased that digest I guess... thanks
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 23:24:15 -0300
Subject: Hey - How 'bout a Hearse/Olds 

Found on a used car lot -- '69 Olds 98 Cotner/Bevington Landau "Funeral Car".
 Black (what else), 36,000 miles, no air, radio delete (radio has been
added), cornering lights (to help avoid those nasty grave stones in the
dark?).  Very presentable, needs rust repair on the driver's side skirt,
could use some minor repair to the 1/4 panels between the skirts and the rear
side doors and could use a rear bumper.  Load 'em up and you're ready to go.
 Price quoted to me was $3995.  Salesman told me it was a "local, one owner"
car.  Located in 1/2 hour east of Hershey, PA.  Contact Myerstown Fine Car
and Truck Sales, 717-866-7799.  Ask for Rodney.

Paul

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 23:32:05 -0300
Subject: T-tops, decals, progress, tire size 

1.  does anyone know of a good company to get T-tops for my S-10/bravada?
i'm looking for t-tops to make it look better, as if making it an olds wasnt
the best :)

2.  decals...ok, i'm looking for a good source for Hurst/olds decals...from
the rear of the 83-84 H/O's

3.  and the progress on the Bravada pickup...just painted the wheels
tonight...the color is the GM 96 dark green...looks excellent...a hurst
floor shifter will be going in to control the auto...anyone know if Hurst
makes a 4-speed version of the Indy-matic...i could only find a 3 speed, and
if not, anyone know how to modify for the 3 speed?

4.  what tire size would you guys recommend for the truck, 15 x 7
rims...since it has basically the same front end as the 78-88 G-bodies what
is the widest i could put on without loss of radius?

thanks for all of your help
                    Zack
      ___
     /. .\
    _\_*_/_                     -<Buddha>-
   / /   \ \                   Buddha@itw.com
   \_\___/_/            HTTP://www2.itw.com/~buddha/
  /___\_/___\         "I only kill to know i'm alive"
 *************

------------------------------

From: Bob Valentine <ravalent@liii.com>
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 23:39:12 -0300
Subject: Re: Lye, PBrakes

On Tue, 28 May 1996, Paul R. K. Kuromoto wrote:

> This isn't the infamous "Power master" or whatever it was called that was 
> used on Grand Nationals is it?  From what I hear, such a system is one of 
> the major areas on stock GN's that need attention as it breaks down 
> rather frequently...

     The hydraulic system was referred to as the "Hydro-Boost" system, 
and the GN system was the "Electro-Boost".   The only problem I've ever 
seen with the Hydro-Boost systems is leaking seals.  Even that's rare 
tho... the Electro-Boost system was a nightmare.

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                    --> ravalent@liii.com  <--
        "Experience varies directly with equipment ruined"

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 19:50:27 -0300
Subject: Re: '68 442

Nielsen Design Group wrote:
> 
> Found a '68 442 Holiday Hardtop (no post) project car. This car was
> supposedly in a barn for 22 years.
>> 
> Firm asking price or $650. What does everyone think?

I understand that people are getting nearly that for the 4-speed gear.  
If you like these 442's I'd take it.  If you can't find a 400 then the 
others (425/455) will do.  If I didn't already have a complete '68, it 
would tempt me.

Bill Culp

------------------------------

From: Dan Williams <dr_olds@kfmw.net>
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 17:55:54 -0300
Subject: Re: '68 442

Besides all the other good adivce you got, check the trim tag. It is on the 
firewall on the driver's side.  You can use that information to decode the 
correct color combo of the car and if it was a bench or bucket car.  Look for 
the PAINT label on the tag.  It should have a 2 letter code. The first letter is 
the lower body color and the second is the upper body color (roof color).  The 
letters break down as this for the following:

A	Ebony Black
C	Provincial White
D	Saphire Blue
E	Nocture Blue
F	Teal Frost
G	Willow Gold
K	Ocean Turquoise
L	Teal Blue
N	Burgundy
P	Silver Green
R	Scarlet
S	Jade Gold
T	Iovry
V	Juneau Gray
Y	Saffron

Don't forget to check the VIN as mentioned before, just because it has all the 
badges, it doesn't mean that it is a real 442.  Denpending on the condition of 
the interior, $650 is probably a fair price for that part of the country.  I 
would pay that (Then again, I have two 68 400 blocks).  The car is worth more 
because it is a 4-speed car.  Any other options would certainly add to its 
value.  For 68, the best ones (excluding w-30) would be a Rally-Pac and a wood 
wheel.  A posi rear would be nice also.  If the car is a non-ac car, it could 
have a decent gear set in the rear (2.32 max for ac cars).

I wouldn't put anything other than the correct 400 or a early 455 in it.  Too 
many strikes against the 75 455.

Nielsen Design Group wrote:
> 
> That is, 'Firm asking price of $650. What does everyone think?'
> 
> A few more questions:
> Does anyone know what the factory colors were in '68 for 442's? The car is
> currently blue-gray.
> What did the deck stripe(s) look like? Single or Double? Colors?
> I am under the impression that this car was not offered with a 455 AND the
> manual trans.
> What is correct? a 400? a 350? Can we tell by the VIN #?
> I'm thinking of dropping in a '75 455 out of a 98, possibly rebuilt to '68
> specs. Comments?
> 
> Thanks,
> Darren Shroeger

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 20:02:13 -0300
Subject: Re: '68 442

Nielsen Design Group wrote:
> 
> 
> A few more questions:
> Does anyone know what the factory colors were in '68 for 442's? The car is
> currently blue-gray.
> What did the deck stripe(s) look like? Single or Double? Colors?
> I am under the impression that this car was not offered with a 455 AND the
> manual trans.
> What is correct? a 400? a 350? Can we tell by the VIN #?
> I'm thinking of dropping in a '75 455 out of a 98, possibly rebuilt to '68
> specs. Comments?
> 
> Thanks,
> Darren Shroeger

Darren:

The stripes weren't on the deck lid, they were vertical on the front 
fenders up & down over the 442 emblems.  I have seend black, red, & 
white stripes, but there may have been more.  

The only engine was a long stroke 400 used only in 1968 & 1969 with 
3-speeds, 4-speeds, and Turbo-Hydramatics.  These engines are not the 
same as the 1965-1967's.  All of the Olds engines will interchange 
(350-400-403-425-455) with some simple work.

The 442 colors were the same as other Cutlasses - the usual black, 
white, red, blues, greens, maroon, pale yellow, gold, silver, and even a 
teal which is a very dark gray-green metallic like my car. 

Bill Culp

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 20:11:04 -0300
Subject: Re: May27 - 3 Q's 

Fernando Proietto wrote:
> 
> SG Hartfelder wrote:
> >.
> >.
> > 2.  After driving the Olds around for about an hour yesterday I got it back
> > into it's garage and turned it off.  Then, a few minutes later when I went
> > to restart it, It sort of turned over for a second then the starter just
> > started to click.  I tried about 10 more times with the same result.  After
> > leaving it alone for about 2 hours I tried again and after a slight pause it
> > started fine.  Any ideas what it could be or where I should start diagnosing
> > the problem?
> >
> 
>  
> You
> may have to install a heat shield around the starter.
> 
> --
> Regards
> Fernando Proietto

My 1973 455 Cutlass with headers fried solenoids every year.  I was so 
tired of it after about ten years that I threw away the headers as soon 
as they showed any signs of rusting out.  A heat shield would be a 
wonderful addition to the car - of course headers in the trash can might 
be even better.

Bill Culp

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 20:16:25 -0300
Subject: Re: Beater suggestions

Tom Lentz wrote:
> 
>      Lately it's seemes that an additional car would be more and more
>      useful.  I'd love to have another car to use as a "small emergency
>      backup car",
>      So.... anybody got any good suggestions?
> 
>      Tom L.

Tom:

In the middle seventies and eighties Olds had a Starfire that was really 
a Chevy Monza (Chevette like drivetrain).  Those are cheap and fair 
cars.  They rusted a lot, so look out.

The Olds Omega was a good car that was tough and reliable - it even had 
an Olds 350 available.  I see nothing wrong with one of these.

Bill Culp

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 20:27:41 -0300
Subject: Re: Beater suggestions

Robert Lawrence wrote:
> 
> >      So.... anybody got any good suggestions?
> 
> Is the list server working properly?  This thread has been going on
> for several hours, and nobody has suggested a Toronado.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
> lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
> (810) 825-8007    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
> Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

I'm sorry - Toronados don't come cheap.  I thought we were talking 
beaters here!

Bill Culp

------------------------------

From: Willie Fruean <aceface@ohana.com>
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 01:40:54 -0300
Subject: Re: Starter Problems/Tune Up Question

If you hear a clicking noise, that is your starter solenoid. It is not 
getting the proper power. Probably due to a loose connection. Start from 
the starter and check all of the connections there on. If something is 
loose, clean it before tightening it. You can use some  steel wool. If 
you do not find anything loose then try just cleaning the connections 
from your ignition to your starter. If it were your battery or coil wire 
it would make a different noise. If it still does it after that then a 
simple tap on the solenoid with a hammer sometimes works.


Willie

'57 Olds Super 88

------------------------------

From: Travis L McWaters <travism@utdallas.edu> 
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 02:07:42 -0300
Subject: Re: Hey - How 'bout a Hearse/Olds 

> Found on a used car lot -- '69 Olds 98 Cotner/Bevington Landau 
> "Funeral Car". Black (what else)

I actually met one once (a '72) that was tan.  Supposedly it came 
"from the factory" that color.  I never bothered to look it up and see
if "tan" was a color offered on the 98 that year (didn't really care).

If that '69 wern't so far away from Texas, I would go have a look at it.
Somewhere in my twisted brain I think it wouldd be fun to have hearse.

- -- Travis

------------------------------

From: "C. K. Yee" <yu135008@yorku.ca>
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 03:42:41 -0300
Subject: Re: Quadrajet secondaries

> I seem to have (and have always had) this problem.  When I step on the gas
> from a stop, the engine seems *very* sluggish, until the engine rpm's get up
> to about 2,000 or 2,500, then it gets right up and goes!  I believe the
> secondaries are opening way too early.  There was a time when the little
> return spring up at the top of the carb on the butterfly valves that lift
> the metering rods was broken, and the engine would only accelerate
> vveeerrrrrryyy slowly, or else it would stall from the secondaries opening.
> I fixed the spring, and it worked OK again, except for the usual

When the spring was replaced, what adjustment did you set it to?
The factory setting is between 1/2 to 3/4 of a turn.  Also, does your
Q-jet have secondary fuel discharge ports?  These are small holes located
on the air horn at the forward edge of the air valves, and act as an 
accelerator pump for the secondaries.  Also, how does everything run 
on the primary side?  Anything to indicate that the accelerator pump 
isn't fully working?  Is the primary vacuum break working?  A leak 
in this unit may allow the secondary air valve to open too quickly.

> sluggishness.  The engine is stock except for an aftermarket coil.  Is that
> normal for a stock engine?  Back when the carb # thread was running, my carb
> # decoded as being for a 1968 Pontiac 400 w/Ram Air. In that case, could it
> just be jetted to big for my engine?  This isn't a real big problem to me,

I wouldn't think this would be normal for a stock engine.  
With tall gearing, it may seem like not much is happening at low 
speeds when the engine rpm is low, and all is quiet.  Probably 
the best way to check the carburetor jetting is to examine the spark plugs 
immediately after operating the engine under the affected rpm's and 
throttle position.  BTW, changing the secondary metering is quite easy in 
a Q-jet! 

Kevin Wong

------------------------------

From: "C. K. Yee" <yu135008@yorku.ca>
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 04:14:01 -0300
Subject: Re: PBrakes

> 403... the answer occured to me! Diesels got power brakes from a hydraulic unit
> that used power steering pressure! There ya go... power brakes, power steering,
> AND a rowdy cam... Problem solved. Yet another use for Diesel cars

Also, you may want to look into engine driven vacuum pumps.  My '83 Delta 
88 is equipped with the trailer towing package, and has one of these 
pumps directly below the A/C compressor, and driven by the same belt.
An even easier solution might be to obtain an electric vacuum pump.  Front
drive Cadillacs ('85 and up) have electric vacuum pumps (located in 
front of the driver's side wheel) that run continuously with the ignition 
on.

>      The hydraulic system was referred to as the "Hydro-Boost" system, 
> and the GN system was the "Electro-Boost".   The only problem I've ever 
> seen with the Hydro-Boost systems is leaking seals.  Even that's rare 

I've heard that when they do leak, repairs will be very expensive. 
A number of mid-80's full size wagons came with Hydro-Boost systems.

Kevin Wong

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 08:30:01 -0300
Subject: Re: NON-OLDS (Weekend Entertainment)

> X-Sender: dpauliso@post.metrolink.net

> Had a four day camping trip planned, with my friend and his boat as the only
> transport to and from an island in the Indian River.  We went over the
> engine (50 hp Mariner) thoroughly (we thought) before the trip.  Started and
                ^^^^^^^

There's your problem... Mariners are a M*rc*ry derivative, aren't they?

Dave, sometime I'll tell you about the 10# largemouth I took outta Okeechobee
in '87... currently swimming above my fireplace mantle :)



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'88 Cadillac Brougham, a.k.a. 'Big Blue' -- Olds 307 Powered!!
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

...and Ex-M*rc*ry owner :)

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 09:08:41 -0300
Subject: Re: Beater suggestions

I think the Trofeo is similar to the Buick Reatta, no?

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 09:11:31 -0300
Subject: Re: Beater suggestions

Besides the lack of a full frame (dodging Toronado bullets).......I guess 
like a Nova, an Omega would make a great race car with the proper frame 
strengthening....

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: Joanne Beausoleil <jbeausol@ftp.com>
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 09:29:13 -0300
Subject: RE: Weekend Entertainment

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB4D38.EB4203A0
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Well, I went hiking up in Tuckermans ravine with people who were skiing. =
Froze our asses off friday and saturday night. We slept with so many =
clothes on that if we were attacked by bears, it would take one forever =
to reach any meat.

- ----------
From: 	David Paulison[SMTP:dpauliso@metrolink.net]
Sent: 	Saturday, May 25, 1996 3:48 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Re: Weekend Entertainment

At 03:39 AM 5/28/96 -0300, you wrote:
>     Well, this has proven to be a very ~memorable~ Memorial Day =
Weekend!
>Can anyone top this one? =20
>       Anyone
>else have any fun this weekend?  Things were pretty grim on this edge =
of the
>globe!
>
>
>   =20
>      Charley Buehner=20

Well, I don't think can top it, but I did have quite a weekend.  It's
non-Olds related, though.  I'll post it separately...     =20
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

 "I was put on this earth to accomplish a certain number of things;
    right now I'm so far behind, I'll never die"  --Calvin





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------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 09:28:22 -0300
Subject: Re: Beater suggestions

> From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>

> 
> I think the Trofeo is similar to the Buick Reatta, no?
> 
The '92 Trofeo I was in was just a trim level of the Toro, had nothing
to do with the Fiero...errr, Reatta :)

BTW, what about those FWD lil Olds from the early - mid 80s, the J-Car
derivative... I think they took the Firenza name after they wised up and
lost that Vega/Monza platform? :)  My bro-in-law at the Olds dealership got
his Mom one, an '84 wagon I beleive, and it was an okay beater for her...

Just my 1.999999999 cents (d*mn, gotta get that new Pentium chip!)



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'88 Cadillac Brougham, a.k.a. 'Big Blue' -- Olds 307 Powered!!
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: Joanne Beausoleil <jbeausol@ftp.com>
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 09:32:18 -0300
Subject: RE: Beater suggestions

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Wouldn't it be better to have your winter car be large and safe? =
Otherwise, are any of the 86 Toronados around? That is small and maybe =
old enough to be cheap.

- ----------
From: 	Tom Lentz[SMTP:tlentz@teknon.com]
Sent: 	Tuesday, May 28, 1996 9:22 AM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Beater suggestions


     Lately it's seemes that an additional car would be more and more=20
     useful.  I'd love to have another car to use as a "small emergency=20
     backup car", and possibly during the winter to sacrifice to the =
Snow=20
     Gods on the worst of winter days.
    =20
     My two primary concerns are money and space.  Under $500 =
(preferably=20
     about $300) and small enough to only kill a minimal-sized patch of=20
     grass in the back alleyway.  I know most people here think =
similarly=20
     to myself (full-size, RWD, V8, Olds) when it comes to car tastes, =
so=20
     I'm wondering if anyone here has any suggestions for cars.
    =20
     Olds never made (until recently, but those would be too expensive)=20
     small cars, correct?  I'm thinking I might be able to deal with a=20
     '70's Omega, but that still might be too big for convenient =
storage. =20
     How come I never see anyone here with Omegas?  Were they that bad?  =
I=20
     used to have a Nova (with an Omega fender) that I thought was =
pretty=20
     good, apart from the chronic rust.  A friend offered to sell me his =

     '69 Delta-88 for dirt cheap (runs great!), but I dunno if it'll =
even=20
     fit in the alley *period*, much less take up an inconspicuous =
corner.
    =20
     I have about zero experience with small cars (apart from fixing my=20
     fiance's old Chevette.  Just fixed it enough to sell it).  I'm sure =
I=20
     can handle any repairs (esp. on older models) and I don't mind =
fixing=20
     a thing or two to get a cheap car, but I don't want something I'll =
be=20
     fixing every week.
    =20
     So.... anybody got any good suggestions?
    =20
     Tom L.




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------------------------------

From: Joanne Beausoleil <jbeausol@ftp.com>
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 09:38:29 -0300
Subject: Most stolen car in U.S.

I heard the 85-87 cutlass was the most stolen car in US cuz the parts =
fit so many other cars... buick, pontiac... is this still/was ever true? =
Good reason to skip the paint job....

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 09:52:25 -0300
Subject: Re: Most stolen car in U.S.

> I heard the 85-87 cutlass was the most stolen car in US cuz the parts fit so many other cars... buick, pontiac... is this still/was ever true? Good reason to skip the paint job....
> 

Yes, I believe this is still true in the US... but I also think it's followed
closely by Honda Accords; and *they* prolly get stolen so much because folks
should buy two at a time anyways -- one for parts :)



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'88 Cadillac Brougham, a.k.a. 'Big Blue' -- Olds 307 Powered!!
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 09:56:52 -0300
Subject: High-Volume Oil Pump Q's 

I just checked out the hv oil pump that PST included with their 403 kit, and
had a few questions, one practical and one theoretical:

1) This pump apparently uses a bolt-on pickup tube, rather than the stock
pressed-on pickup. Is there some stock bolt-on pickup available, or is this a
"standard" aftermarket bolt-on pickup tube? I see in Mondello's catalog that
the PU3 and PU10 are stock-depth bolt-on tubes, and was wondering whether
these would work. (BTW, yes, I will be using a stock-depth pan.)

The oil-pump, btw, came in a white box, but looks pretty nice: gears about
1/2" longer, support for end of driven gear in the cover plate, and bolt-on
pickup. Not bad for only $10 more.

2) What makes the difference between a high-volume and a high-pressure pump?
If you pump a greater volume of oil through the same passages over the same
period of time, wouldn't the pressure increase as well?

TIA

- -Bob the 403 rebuilding guy...

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 10:05:43 -0300
Subject: stuffs

> From: Ron Sauve <fireball@indirect.com>
> Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 17:34:31 -0300
> Subject: old 1989 cutlas sup ignition switch
>
> the ignition switch will not shut off the engine or release the key.
>
> What do I do and where can I get copies of the shop manual pages to
> explain the repair steps needed?

Put the shift lever in Park first?
Hurry up & help this guy... his car is STILL RUNNING! :)

> Are the FAQ's posted on a web page?  How can I access them?

No, but they oughta be... contact David Brown for a copy of the FAQ. I forget
his full email addres right now...
  David...?

> My grandfather always said that the main cause of starting problems was
> a battery or the connections to said power house.  Check these first.

Yah, I put the Dodge p/u out front to sell, prospective buyer shows up, it
refuses to crank. Next day I jump start it, has 14V at the battery, go to car
wash, leave running, come back, won't start, won't even turn over. Cleaned
cable connections- problem solved!

> From: Aaron Neumann <neumann.12@osu.edu>
> Subject: Few Q's concerning '72 88
> is in Akron. Outside my apartment complex sits a pretty blue 1972 Delta 88
> Roy. Convt. waiting for another door ding from another moron.  She's my
>
> My TH400 is acting funny.  Sometimes, when I've warmed the car up, but it's

> it a really bad thing to have too much tranny fluid in there?  If so, how
> can I drain some off?  Besides that, the tranny works perfectly.  Any advice?

Around here, there's independent folks who will rebuild yer trans for like $175
plus R&R labor... or, a used but useful unit can be put in for like $100 if you
can turn wrenches and have a jack & stands.

> Here's what it's got now:
>
> nice running 350
> 4bbl Quadrajet
> single exhaust
> TH400
> 2.7? or 2.9? rear-end w/ anit-spin (posi)
>
> My plans:
>
> Dual exhaust w/ Flowmasters
> Slightly hotter cam
> Performer Intake Manifold
> Rejetted carb (mines jetted pretty lean)

Prolly needs xst anyhow, right? :) Might as well go duals, right? The cam
change is going to involve some work, expense, and a big case of the
mitaswells... with cam comes lifters, mitaswell do the timing chain since it's
off... if the cam sprocket teeth are gone, mitaswell pull the oil pump & clean
out the inlet... since the pan's off, mitaswell inspect the bearings... since
the caps are off, mitaswell replace 'em anyhow...

> Would put in a lower rear-end gear, but I'll lose my highway cruisability...
> Might install a shift kit.

Gears: yep, there's always that tradeoff between fun & economy & longevity.
Shift kit: Yeah, have that done when the trans is rebuilt.

- --battery cables--
> This JUST happened to me Saturday night.
> Luckily, my friend who actually had half a clue knew enough to check the
> battery terminal connectors.  I thought it was a waste of time for sure
> because the electricals were working fine, but after scraping out the
> corrosion on the connectors and re-attaching, voila!, enough juice to turn
> it over.

Lot of that going around these days...

> Now I've got a quick question...can you all offer any advice for a guy
> about to tune up his car for the first time? Any tips/advice/personal
> techniques/lessons you've learned? I think I should be able to do it
> without any problems, but I'm only going on what I read in some books.
> BeaTniK

Got yer timing light handy? Dwell meter? Or are you converted to HEI? Install
points, set them to about 0.020" on max opening by eye... don't leave out the
rotor- doesn't start so good :)  Start engine, turn points adj screw IN [CW]
until missing occurs, then back out 1/2 turn. Then set timing [dist. vacuum
disco'd], attach vacuum and make sure timing hasn't jumped about 20 degrees.
  Replace fuel filter, PCV valve while yer in there.

> From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
> Subject: Weekend Entertainment
>
>      Well, this has proven to be a very ~memorable~ Memorial Day Weekend!
> Can anyone top this one?

- --tale of woe snipped--
>       Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"

Dang... I'll take another engine teardown to that story any day... I feel for
ya, Charley. I guess the only thing that MIGHT have helped would be to leave
the car empty & unlocked so they don't have to BREAK in... but jerks that would
breal *5* windows are in it just for the vandalism anyhow... I guess a paging
alarm might help- if you were close enough to be paged. I still favor the
automatic CO-release system... WARNING: entering this car unauthorized could
very well be your LAST MISTAKE.

- --Solid main web 403--
> >i am going to be seeing one within the next week...he says he has one IN
> SHOP!!!
> >                         zack
> Be sure to bring a camera...check that casting #.
> Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme

I'd like to see:
Photo that shows the '403' on the block side AND the solid main web in one
shot... the block casting ID... the block VIN derivative.... the day of casting
info near the dist'r hole... the rear face of the block with the  'F5' or
whatever code... and the Engine Unit # on the oil fill tube, or lack thereof.
  Casting dates for heads, intake, water pump, xst mans, etc. would be nice but
not necessary.
  Oh, and any clues what vehicle it originally came in...
- --Chris--

> Subject: Trans Am
> My nephew is getting rid of a 1976 Trans Am.
> Has a 455 [froze up], 4 speed

Pontiac 455 or Olds 455?

> That is exactly what I do, and the warped rotors have been a problem =
> before the sticking linkage problem... two different problems. When the =
> throttle sticks, I need to lay on the brakes so that I can get out of =
> heavy traffic, because by this time I am doing about 80 mph in the left =
> lane of a highway, and need to jam into the right shoulder. Then I shut =
> the car down and lay on them again to stop. Don't assume because my =
> plumbing is different from yours that I panic. Maybe I would if I was =
> not driving a tank to begin with! :)

Believe me, it ain't yer plumbing that I was attributing the panic to... I'd
have suggested the same thing if your apparatus were similar to mine... No
sexism here, nuh-uh! My wife, who is NOT mechanically cluless, gets the brush
off all the time from callers who assume that she cannot possibly know a
battery gasket from a carburetor... -Chris-
btw, TRIM them messages in replies, eh?!?!?!

>      Why FAKE a car's originality?

It's not faked originality so much as constructing a car that LOOKS impressive.
I suppose one COULD try to pass it off as a real W-27, or 'forget' to mention
that it's a pseudo-W-27... but the astute buyer will check with a magnet,
right? Most cars are so far from 'original' that there's really no point in
trying to make them 'correct', so why not make it as attractive and impressive
as possible? I'd love to have a W-27  rear for my car, but like the prospect of
having one that I don't mind punishing either- less likely to break, and if it
does, no big deal. Not like destroying a real W-27, right? -Chris-

>   The 4-bbl. Rochester Quadrajet from a standing start is only running on
> it's *primaries anyway*!  Just like a 2-bbl. carburetor.  The secondaries do
> not open until there is enough engine rpm/vacuum to pull them open.  The
> throttle response of a Rochester 2-bbl and Rochester 4-bbl. should be the
> *same* for this reason, (all other things being equal).
>                                                  Steve

Well, mechanical intricacies notwithstanding, I have driven both quite a bit,
and still maintain that the 2V offers a more consistantly instant [lovely
little alliteration...]  throttle response at the expense of some max punch.
- -Chris-

> You guys have way too much time on your hands...

So, what's your point? :)

> From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
> Subject: Re: Few Q's concerning '72 88
> I've got a problem:  I've got a need for speed and more power.
>         Two words:
>
>         Big Block (455, in case anyone though I meant one of those other big
>         block engines)

Why are we neglecting the 425, Joe?

>         My motto has always been "It's not a real engine if it has less
>         that 400 cubic inches."  (I assume now we'll hear from the 403
>         advocates...)
>         Joe Padavano

How about... "Real engines have at least 400 cubes... and SOLID main webs!"
- -Chris-

> From: Bill Gochenour <billg@sjuvm.stjohns.edu>
>
> Anyone have any clues where I can find a passenger side wing tip
> from the rear deck spoiler. Maybe somebody knows somebody with a damaged
> spoiler or just an extra tip, hanging around collecting dust! (well it
> was worth a shot).

I find 'em alongside major hiways all the time... :)

>     As for you 83/84-H/O people check you spoilers, if you see the
> paint in the seems starting to crack, they will fall out (when you least
> expect it, usually about 60mph & who knows where).

> I know the feeling. The exact same thing happened to my '84 about 2 weeks
> ago. I'm still searching for someplace to get parts for the 83/84, if I
> find anything, I'll let you know.
> Tom Waldron tomw@harborside.teleres.com  '84 H/O

Now I know why...

> From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
> Subject: _Auto Pioneering_
>
> Started to read the book _Auto Pioneering_ last nite... literally could not pu
> it down... Quite fascinating. Recommended reading. He was always thinking of
> ways to fight anti-auto sentiment, and to get and keep Oldsmobile in the
> headlines.

Uh, "he" being of course, RE Olds... Another interesting tidbit is that if it
were not for the fact that Mr. Olds & Mr. Ford were intent on retiring, General
Motors would have been formed from Buick, Oldsmobile, and Ford... the deal was
this close >< to complete, but when the backers found out that Olds & Ford
would not be contributing, they withdrew support...
- --Chris--

> David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
>     "Oldsmobile - powerful roadsters with big V8s"
> Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu

FAQ's! Git yer FAQ's here!

> From: ndg@traverse.com (Nielsen Design Group)
> Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 10:11:44 -0300
> Subject: '68 442
>
> Found a '68 442 Holiday Hardtop (no post) project car. This car was
> supposedly in a barn for 22 years.
> No motor, but has the Muncie 4 spd w/ Hurst 442 shifter & bell housing &
> flywheel.
> All logos are there, as are grilles, bumpers, lenses.
> Appears to have had rt. rear quarter replaced some years ago. Small rust
> hole on seam where joined to rocker.
> Otherwise, very rust free for a Northern Michigan car.
> Firm asking price or $650. What does everyone think?

Depends on how far the rust has gone, if the frame is shot, and the floor
panels... then what's left? Glass, pitted 442 badges, some trim, some worn
interior, and a 4-speed. Total about $500 maybe... If the frame & body are
serviceable... so much the better.

  A 442's correct VIN will start out "344..."

  The correct engine would be a "G" block 400 with C heads. No 455's were
offered in 1968 A-bodies except the Hurst/Olds, and the only manual trans H/O's
were reserved for f.o.d.  [friends of Demmer]... so I hear...

Things to look out for: Mice & such live in barns... did they get into the car,
the headliner? How does it smell inside? Rear bumper has xst cutouts where
tailpipe fits? Headlite plastics tend to be broken around the edges. Grilles
often broken, but still available. Taillites broken?
- --Chris--

> I'm thinking of dropping in a '75 455 out of a 98, possibly rebuilt to '68
> specs. Comments?
> Darren Shroeger

Yeah, hold out for C heads. If you can find one, a 'correct' 400 would make the
car more valuable in the end... otherwise:
- -a 455
- -C heads froma 67-69 big block
- -10.25:1 pistons
- -Shave the heads about 0.030-0.050" during the valve job.
- -have the crank drilled for the manual trans.

Get the FAQ- see address above- and have at it. -Chris-

> There is a list of "mandatory options" that are "also to be ordered" when a
> customer orders a 442 (not an H/O).
> They are:
> "W-45 -- Includes forced air induction system, G70 x 14" Goodyear white
> stripe   poly-glass tires and special conversion preparation.  (Option W-46
> should be    designated in lieu of W-45 if option C-60, air conditioning, is
> ordered)

Don't think so... not ALL 442's came with OAI [Outside Air Induction]. -Chris-

>  G-80 -- Anti-spin rear axle
>  J-52 -- Power front disc brakes
>  M-40 -- Turbo Hydra-Matic transmission

Um, nor did they all have disc brakes... nor M40 trans. My hardtop 68 W30 has
manual drum brakes [will convert someday to manual disc brakes off a '70 W31].

Sound to me more like the list of things that must be ordered WITH an H/O...

- -Chris-

> Firm asking price or $650. What does everyone think?
>
>           I think you should pass.  By the way, what's the phone
>           number of the seller?  ;)
>           Joe Padavano

Heh...
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: Frank Boerger <103454.317@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 10:09:55 -0300
Subject: Power brakes

I apologize in advance if I'm not sending this mail correctly, but I'm a
first-timer.

At the risk of venting the ire of the Olds gods, I owned a Ford Tempo Diesel
(new purchase in 1985) for 11 years (185,000 mi.).  When I donated it to a
charity boys farm last December the electrically driven vacuum pump was still
boosting the brakes just fine.  It had an internal vac.switch, and took about
3-4 seconds to draw down the system (which was shorter than it took for the glow
plugs to heat ), and was wired to the "dash" side of the "ign." switch.  A unit
from the bone yard should operate any size vacuum booster.  I used to use it
with a spare hose to "suck " fuel from the tank to a metal can so I didn't have
to run into town for diesel fuel for my tractor.

I'm a first-time Olds owner.  I bought a '68 convertible and a '68 holiday coupe
parts car.

Both cars have a great amount of rust at the leading edge of the dash ( where it
joins to the cowl for the windshield land).  Any one know of an decent fix, a
bone-yard opportunity or anything ?  Maybe someone is parting out  a car ?  This
seems an unusual piece to have to replace, but it is bad in botrh cars.

Thanks for your patience.

Frank Boerger
Tallahassee, FL

------------------------------

From: Mike Coccagna <mikec@pop.kis.net>
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 11:33:37 -0300
Subject: Re: Beater suggestions

>Paul R.K. Kuromoto wrote:

> I think the Trofeo is similar to the Buick Reatta, no?

Wrong!  It's the last evolution of the Toro (if you speak Buick, the 
Rivera [sp.?]).  Interestingly,. the late Toro's parts are also 
offered by GM for the Quad442 (Calais) with small 
modifications for heavy duty (racing) use.

Mike
'91 W-40 Quad442

------------------------------

From: clark@sh28.dseg.ti.com (Pat Clark 952-3776)
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 10:44:51 -0300
Subject: Re: Power brakes

> Both cars have a great amount of rust at the leading edge of the dash ( where it
> joins to the cowl for the windshield land).  Any one know of an decent fix, a
> bone-yard opportunity or anything ?  Maybe someone is parting out  a car ?  This
> seems an unusual piece to have to replace, but it is bad in botrh cars.
> 
> Thanks for your patience.
> 
> Frank Boerger
> Tallahassee, FL
> 
> 
> 
Frank, 

	Mine had the exact same problem from the windshield leaking for years.
Do you have the windshield out? If not, the rust could be much more extensive
that first thought. I removed my windshield and used a cut off wheel to remove
some fist sized areas of cancerous metal. Ground out all of the surrounding
rust and welded in new patch panels made from the fender of a ch*vy S-10 
(Heh-Heh). Ground down the welds and sprayed everything with metal etching 
primer. Needed a very thin layer of Bondo to slick everything up. Sprayed the
entire metal section and cowl of the dash with a slightly flattened gloss black
enamel (single-stage). Reinstalled the windshield and it lookes great. This was
four years ago, haven't had a problem since. Also, I believe that Muscle Car 
Review magazine had a resto article on dash replacement here awhile back. They
actualy even used a Cutlass for the example. If you are interested I could look
up what month that was from for you. Good luck! 

PS - check really well for rust under your rear window trim at the base of your
rear window where it meets the trunk. Had to weld in a all new panel complete
with trunk hinges on mine!



          ___              ___        _________
         /   |            /   |      /         \
        /    |           /    |     |   ___    |
       /     |          /     |     |__|   |   |
      /      |         /      |           /   /   
     /       |        /       |          /   /   
    /   /|   |       /   /|   |         /   /
   /   /_|   |__    /   /_|   |__      /   /
  |             |  |             |    /   /
  |______     __|  |______     __|   /   /_____
         |   |            |   |     |          |      Pat Clark
         |___|            |___|     |__________|       69 442
						      400/400

   "Just your average 300+hp garage hogging, gas sucking, money pit"

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 10:29:10 -0300
Subject: Re: Beater suggestions 

>The '92 Trofeo I was in was just a trim level of the Toro, had nothing
>to do with the Fiero...errr, Reatta :)

The Reatta was a unique design that had no corporate twin... or buyers,
either. (I think one of the first signs of a car model in trouble is
when the owners form a club for it. :-)

>BTW, what about those FWD lil Olds from the early - mid 80s, the J-Car
>derivative... I think they took the Firenza name after they wised up and
>lost that Vega/Monza platform? :)

Yes, the Firenza is pretty much a rebadged Ch*vy Cavalier. If I'm thinking
of the right platform letter, the J series would be the Pontiac J2000 Sunbird
(later simply the Sunbird), Chevy Cavalier, Buick Skyhawk and Olds Firenza. I
kind of think the Olds was the worst seller and was dropped first, although
other than maybe some body trim pieces, parts for it probably shouldn't be
too hard to find.

As for the Chevette/Monza topics, the Monza is a lot closer to the Vega
than the Chevette. The Vega started in 1971; the Monza and Chevette in
1975 (er, second thoughts: maybe the Chevette was 1976...). The Monza and 
Vega at various times were supposed to get Wankel rotary engines, but never
did, though the Monza shares some platform parts with the Vega and used the
same rear panels for Monza station wagons that had been originally designed
for Vega wagons. (Look at either from the back and you can't tell them 
apart.) The Monza/Vega has a weak front end, and when the engine cradle (or
whatever the right term is) distorts or stretches outward, the front end
alignment goes to hell and the front wheels start to lean inward. The 
springs are usually broken on cars this old, too.

The Chevette is marginally better, especially after you pop fresh springs
in the front (no MacPherson struts in these cars). Check for rusted-out 
front floors. The Pontiac T1000 is a rebadged Chevette.

Other misc: the Cutlass Ciera wagon somebody mentioned is a rebadged Chevy
Celebrity wagon, as is the Buick Century and Pontiac 6000.

Clear as mud now?  :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 12:39:22 -0300
Subject: Re: stuffs 

>         Big Block (455, in case anyone though I meant one of those other big 
>         block engines)
          
Why are we neglecting the 425, Joe?


        The only substitution for cubic inches is rectangular dollars.
        
          
>         My motto has always been "It's not a real engine if it has less 
>         that 400 cubic inches."  (I assume now we'll hear from the 403 
>         advocates...)
>         Joe Padavano
          
How about... "Real engines have at least 400 cubes... and SOLID main webs!" 
- -Chris-
          
          I LIKE it!
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 10:36:49 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Lye, PBrakes 

>     Here's my stupid question for today:  Where does one get vacuum from 
>     (for anything: vac. adv, heater controls, PCV, EGR, etc) when running 
>     a blower?  I'd think that when the throttle is more than cracked open 
>     you'd have no vacuum at all, or worse yet a positive vacuum.

Well, my Bonneville has one, and according to the boost gauge on the dash,
it's really only functional during acceleration -- well, let's call that 
brisk acceleration.  :-)  I think manifold vacuum may probably be a little
lower than normally-aspirated engines under the same conditions, but it
doesn't spend that much time under positive pressure and certainly not so
much time that the vacuum reservoirs and boosters run out of reserve. At
idle and cruising, the engine draws great gobs of vacuum, so as long as 
the reserve mechanisms are working properly, the burps of positive pressure
don't affect anything.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 11:48:08 -0300
Subject: Re: Beater suggestions

> From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>

> >The '92 Trofeo I was in was just a trim level of the Toro, had nothing
> >to do with the Fiero...errr, Reatta :)
> 
> The Reatta was a unique design that had no corporate twin... or buyers,
> either. (I think one of the first signs of a car model in trouble is
> when the owners form a club for it. :-)
> 

Actually, I knew about the Reatta's "uniqueness" in the GM family...
I was just poking fun at it, always thought is looked like a fatter
an uglier (if that's possible) Fiero... of course, they *did* make
a rag top Reatta, something Olds should've done for the Toro, IMHO.



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'88 Cadillac Brougham, a.k.a. 'Big Blue' -- Olds 307 Powered!!
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 12:12:45 -0300
Subject: hot lye

Well, the hot lye was drained off today... parts are less greasy than before,
but still far from paintable-clean. Funny, I coulda swore that there were a few
aluminum rocker pedestals in there... can't find any now... maybe the lye ate
the aluminum, neutralized the lye in doing so, and thus didn't achieve full
degreasing?

Again, I await the proper mixture ratio- was it 5# lye per 5g water? I used
only a 12 oz. container of lye in about 4 gal. water.
Whoever had that setup, please repeat the correct ratio.
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 05:22:44 -0300
Subject: Joe Padavano, please e-mail me! 

     I've got the Oldsmotruck.  I tried mailing you directly at the address 
     in your .sig but but my mail bounced back.
     
     Tom Lentz
     tlentz@teknon.com
     
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re[2]: Lye, PBrakes
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET 
Date:    5/28/96 3:52 PM
     
     
     
 My fiance's '78 C*evy truck, used-to-be-diesel converted to a 350 (gas) olds 
 still has this system.  
     
        Can we talk?
     
        Joe Padavano
        jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 13:22:59 -0300
Subject: Re: Beater suggestions

> 
> I am pretty ignorant of late model cars (like past '75), but I have
> a small rust bucket Che*y Celebrity station wagon as a loaner, while my car is
> in the shop.  I can't believe it's worth more that $500.  Surely, there
> is (a much higher quality, of course) Olds corporate sister of this car. 


	I belive the corporate name for that series is the 
		
			*CutlaCelebraCentury6000*
	
	(say that three times fast!!)
	I bet you could find one in beater shape for pretty cheap, and they 
have a lot going for them--lots of room, decent trunk, decent milage, 
and FWD to boot (good for winter).  My girlfriends Chubby Celeb has over 
150,000 miles on it now, and still runs strong (with the 2.5L Iron Duke 
4 and TBI).   Something to keep in mind, I guess.

			Scott
		1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

	
		

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 06:21:59 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Most stolen car in U.S. and misc. 

     Yeah, I heard on the radio a few months ago that the '84 Cutlass was 
     the most stolen.  Of course this was right after I bought my '84 H/O.  
     Sigh.  Thanks guys, I feel so secure now.  :-)
     
     I don't know how they get this figure, I suspect it's by sheer numbers 
     and not by percentage.  There's more mid-80's cutlass's stolen because 
     there's more of them out there.  Pick a car like a Corvette or 
     Mercedes and I'll bet a much higher percentage of them get stolen, but 
     since there's less of them to start with, the numbers are lower.
     
     I saw a web page of some insurance co. a while back, they listed the 
     top 10 and worst 10 cars to own from the insurance companies point of 
     view.  The mid-80's cutlass wasn't in either list.  A newer (FWD) 
     4-door cutlass was in the top 10 cheapest insurance list, so were Olds 
     station wagons.
     
     I'm combining posts to save bandwidth, so here goes:
     
     Driving home last night within the space of three blocks I passed a 
     '79 H/O (coming off a side street) an '83 H/O (parked) and a '70 H/O 
     wanna-be (coming head on).  Not sure if the '70 was real, at least the 
     paint wasn't, being orange.  I was begining to wonder if something 
     cosmic was going on here.
     
     There's a slight hesitation coming from a stop with engine warm on my 
     '84 H/O.  Last winter I had a local garage (which offered free towing 
     which is one reason I went there) rebuild the carb when the engine was 
     flooding badly.  Changed plugs and it still didn't start, and the 
     choke was all messed up too, and since it was 15 below outside I 
     didn't want to mess with it anymore.  So, they rebuilt the carb which 
     fixed the problem, and after taking it back 2 more times for other 
     carb problems (their fault) it finally ran acceptably, except for this 
     new hesitation problem.  At this point I don't want them near my car 
     ever again.  So, I'm going to try fixing the problem myself.  I 
     suspect the accelerator pump or maybe float level.  Can someone with 
     an '84 shop manual tell me what the proper float setting is?  Also 
     maybe see if there's any way to ID the accelerator pump and spring to 
     see if they got the right one?  I'm a bit ignorant of some of the 
     carburetor terminology, but I've rebuilt a two Rochester 2bbl's and a 
     1bbl before with good results.
     
     Amusing story:  When I was a kid, my dad used to drag race.  He had a 
     big box of misc carb parts in the garage.  Most kids played with 
     blocks or tinker toys or legos, I was out taking apart carbs and 
     putting them back together when i was 5 years old (I'm sure they 
     wouldn't have worked, but you couldn't have told me that at the time).
     
     Tom L.


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Most stolen car in U.S.
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    5/29/96 6:22 AM


> I heard the 85-87 cutlass was the most stolen car in US cuz the parts fit so 
ma ny other cars... buick, pontiac... is this still/was ever true? Good reason 
to sk ip the paint job....
> 
     
Yes, I believe this is still true in the US... but I also think it's followed 
closely by Honda Accords; and *they* prolly get stolen so much because folks 
should buy two at a time anyways -- one for parts :)

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 13:42:09 -0300
Subject: Hot Tanks!!

> For the folks who have used hot tank of lye to clean parts:
> I finally found a 5-gal METAL bucket, got a can of Red Devil lye last night...
> 4 gal water, one can lye, one small box o' parts... 2 electric heaters under it
> provide reasonable heat...

	Sounds like a good setup...and a lot like mine.  I'm using a 5 
gallon steel Union 76 oil drum, and Red Devil lye. (Don't use Drano, 
folks!)

>   Well, all I get so far is an oil film on top. I fish a part out and it's
> still greasy. What's up? The lye was in a 12oz container- was it more like 5#
> lye per 5Gal. water??? 

	You might need more lye to get the thing going.  I've had mine for 
about two years now, and since I have never fully changed the water out 
of it, it's super concentrated (remember my post about forming NaOH 
crystals after I dumped an entire can in?).  That should'nt be a problem 
with yours, since the water is fresh.  I'd go ahead and add more lye. 
Probibly one and a half, or two cans to get it started.  Worst thing that 
will happen is the crystal formation.

Do you need to degrease a bit first? I dumped parts in
> right off the engine... 

	First time I fired mine up, I dumped stright off the engine too.  It 
ate every last pice of goo off it in about half an hour.  You don't 
*need* to do any degreasing first (the tank reallly should dissolve all 
the paint and grease), but scraping the really big chunks off first will 
keep the solution cleaner, longer (that way you don't have to fish the 
sludge out of the bottem as often).

Also, does that stuff eat aluminum? I included a bunch
> of rockers & pedestals, we'll see what happens I guess. 

	Yes!  NaOH will dissolve AL and AL alloys.  I learned that the hard 
way when some of it got on my oil filter mounting!  It will also oxidize 
copper, and zinc alloys, (turns them black anyway), so given enough time 
they might get eaten too. (don't even ask how I find this stuff out!)  As 
a rule of thumb, just put ferrous (iron or steel) metal in the thing, just to be safe.

Oh, and are the fumes
> really bad? I had it outdoors at first, to make sure the heat units were OK and
> the fumes not deadly or overpowering... don't want all the tools rusting from a
> cloud of NaOH or something. Later, if it works well, I have a gas burner to
> supply heat.

	It should'nt really make any fumes.  Mabye some steam, but thats 
all.  Nothing to worry about.  If it smells funny, it's just because 
you're cooking old engine parts!

	These things work great for cleaning all sorts of parts, from 
brackets and pulleys to master cylinders to...well, you name it.  Hope 
you get yours working soon, and let me know if you have any other 
questions.  
		
		Scott
	1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: Michael Blennerhassett <blenner@fhs.csu.McMaster.CA>
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 14:25:54 -0300
Subject: Re: Beater suggestions

On Tue, 28 May 1996, Robert Lawrence wrote:

> > >Is the list server working properly?  This thread has been going on
> > >for several hours, and nobody has suggested a Toronado.
> > 
> > He said "beater", so, you know...
> 
> It's apparent the list server is working fine...
>  
...and that most people have the correct respect for Toro's.  Nice to see.

	still another '66 Toro and Mike
	(but no, I won't sign this way.  I'll be original.
	'66 Toro's and Mike.  but no, my wife might find out I have 2)

------------------------------

From: "DeHon Williams" <dwilliam@arb.ca.gov>
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 07:49:20 -0300
Subject: Re: Starter Problems/Tune Up Question

I just had the same problem last week an it turned out to be my 
battery died due to  the alternator not charging...check it out...
my starter would not turn if the volts from the bat. is under 11 
volts if the battery is below 12v the alternator should regulate with the 
engine running so the output would be 12.3-13.0 volts at 3000rpm...


> If you hear a clicking noise, that is your starter solenoid. It is not 
> getting the proper power. Probably due to a loose connection. Start from 
> the starter and check all of the connections there on. If something is 
> loose, clean it before tightening it. You can use some  steel wool. If 
> you do not find anything loose then try just cleaning the connections 
> from your ignition to your starter. If it were your battery or coil wire 
> it would make a different noise. If it still does it after that then a 
> simple tap on the solenoid with a hammer sometimes works.
> 
> 
> Willie
> 
> '57 Olds Super 88
> 
> 
DeHon Williams
Computer Technician
Technical Support Division, ARB

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 14:53:15 -0300
Subject: Re: Beater suggestions 

At 20.16 05,28,96 -0300, you wrote:

>The Olds Omega was a good car that was tough and reliable - it even had 
>an Olds 350 available.  I see nothing wrong with one of these.
>
>Bill Culp
>
>

my dad had one of those for about 6 years...ran great while we had it...then
5 days after qwee sold it the guy was driving out to california, and the
tranny FELL out...
                    zack
      ___
     /. .\
    _\_*_/_                     -<Buddha>-
   / /   \ \                   Buddha@itw.com
   \_\___/_/            HTTP://www2.itw.com/~buddha/
  /___\_/___\         "I only kill to know i'm alive"
 *************

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 15:00:27 -0300
Subject: 430 update 

ok...the 403 with solid webs...nope...he had the windowed...dammit...he was
like, "yeah i got one right back here...the guy who sold it to me said it
was one of those"...i forget how much he paid for it but it was WAY too much
                    sorry
                         Zack
      ___
     /. .\
    _\_*_/_                     -<Buddha>-
   / /   \ \                   Buddha@itw.com
   \_\___/_/            HTTP://www2.itw.com/~buddha/
  /___\_/___\         "I only kill to know i'm alive"
 *************

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 18:06:15 -0300
Subject: Re: Beater suggestions

Michael Blennerhassett wrote:

>still another '66 Toro and Mike


HA!  They're everywhere!  They're everywhere!

...and you thought Ebola was a big problem.          ;)


The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: "Shawn M. Twomey" <stwom@ctp.com>
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 15:32:27 -0300
Subject: Beaters 

>So.... anybody got any good suggestions?
>     
>Tom L.

I guess an old Ciera might fit the bill.

__________________________________________________________________________
Shawn M. Twomey     |  "No!  Try NOT!  Do, or do not.  There is no try."
stwom@ctp.com       |  -Yoda
__________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

From: "Shawn M. Twomey" <stwom@ctp.com>
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 15:38:21 -0300
Subject: T-tops 

>>When I first bought the car, the whole front edge would lift up at about
>>50mph or so and the "hurricane" would start.  If you take off the plastic
>>trim piece, you can adjust where the locking post comes out.  This way, I
>>was able to lock it down good and tight, no problems, but that only worked
>>for a few months.  Now, only the inner third or so of the front edge is
>>loose, so adjusting it does nothing.

>Really? When I adjusted the locking pins on mine, I could, if I wanted 
>to, get them so out of whack that they basically missed the holes in the
>pillars; in other words, I didn't think I'd ever run out of adjustment 
>room when moving those pin collars upwards for a tight fit against the
>roof.

I wasn't clear, sorry.  My problem now is that the front of the t-top is
nice and tight on the outside, by where the adjustment is, but is loose on
the inner third or so of the edge.  I'm going to try and soak the
weather-stripping in ArmorAll, as Bill suggested...hopefully it will puff up
and seal the space.

__________________________________________________________________________
Shawn M. Twomey     |  "No!  Try NOT!  Do, or do not.  There is no try."
stwom@ctp.com       |  -Yoda
__________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

From: bryce_smith@442.com (Bryceman)
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 15:49:24 -0300
Subject: Re: Hot Tanks!! 

>	Sounds like a good setup...and a lot like mine.  I'm using a 5
>gallon steel Union 76 oil drum, and Red Devil lye. (Don't use Drano,
>folks!)

Say, I have one of those old single-burner electric hot plates out in the
garage, would it be a good source of heat for the Lye Tank?
Could I just set the tank right on the hot plate coil and run the plate on
medium heat or should I build a small stand for the tank to elevate it an
inch or two above the plate?


 EXCESSIVE IRON rules the road!
'65 442
'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender
 bryceman@442.com
 www.442.com

------------------------------

From: John D Bartusek <bart@cmf.nrl.navy.mil> 
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 16:15:58 -0300
Subject: Re: Hot Tanks!! 

I'd like to build a larger lye hot tank for more general use.  In
addition to Olds parts, I have a lot of Old Bungalow windows and doors
that need paint removed...

So what if I built a large tray that could hold a door perhaps out of
fiberglass then had a mini residential hot water heater hooked up to
some pipes/hoses and a pump that could send the lye to the hot water
heater then have it go back to the tank? The lye would cycle around
and the thermostat on the hot water heater would control the temp.

Would this work?

- -John Bartusek

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 15:43:22 -0300
Subject: Re: T-tops 

>I wasn't clear, sorry.  My problem now is that the front of the t-top is
>nice and tight on the outside, by where the adjustment is, but is loose on
>the inner third or so of the edge.  I'm going to try and soak the
>weather-stripping in ArmorAll, as Bill suggested...hopefully it will puff up
>and seal the space.

Ah-hah. Well, if you want to swell the seals, how about brake fluid?
Too much ArmorAll on some soft plastics seems to break them down, not just
soften them. Been there, done that.  :-(

Maybe there's something else in the middle of the range between ArmorAll
and brake fluid... silicone spray? Vaseline? Vaseline Intensive Care?

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 18:12:29 -0300
Subject: Re: NON-OLDS (Weekend Entertainment)

At 08:30 AM 5/29/96 -0300, you wrote:

>> engine (50 hp Mariner) thoroughly (we thought) before the trip.  Started and
>                ^^^^^^^
>
>There's your problem... Mariners are a M*rc*ry derivative, aren't they?

Yes, they are..

>
>Dave, sometime I'll tell you about the 10# largemouth I took outta Okeechobee
>in '87... currently swimming above my fireplace mantle :)

OK, sounds good..

>Tim Churchill
>
>...and Ex-M*rc*ry owner :)
>
>
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

 "I was put on this earth to accomplish a certain number of things;
    right now I'm so far behind, I'll never die"  --Calvin

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 18:12:42 -0300
Subject: Re: Starter Problems/Tune Up Question

 the alternator should regulate with the 
>engine running so the output would be 12.3-13.0 volts at 3000rpm...
>
The regulator will regulate, whether external or internal, not the
alterantor. I believe it should be around 13.8 volts with the engine running.
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

 "I was put on this earth to accomplish a certain number of things;
    right now I'm so far behind, I'll never die"  --Calvin

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 18:12:38 -0300
Subject: Reatta

At 10:29 AM 5/29/96 -0300, you wrote:

>The Reatta was a unique design that had no corporate twin... or buyers,
>either. (I think one of the first signs of a car model in trouble is
>when the owners form a club for it. :-)
>
Wasn't the Reatta hand built??
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

 "I was put on this earth to accomplish a certain number of things;
    right now I'm so far behind, I'll never die"  --Calvin

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 18:12:33 -0300
Subject: Re: stuffs

>> There is a list of "mandatory options" that are "also to be ordered" when a
>> customer orders a 442 (not an H/O).
>> They are:
>> "W-45 -- Includes forced air induction system, G70 x 14" Goodyear white
>> stripe   poly-glass tires and special conversion preparation.  (Option W-46
>> should be    designated in lieu of W-45 if option C-60, air conditioning, is
>> ordered)
>
>Don't think so... not ALL 442's came with OAI [Outside Air Induction]. -Chris-
>
>>  G-80 -- Anti-spin rear axle
>>  J-52 -- Power front disc brakes
>>  M-40 -- Turbo Hydra-Matic transmission
>
>Um, nor did they all have disc brakes... nor M40 trans. My hardtop 68 W30 has
>manual drum brakes [will convert someday to manual disc brakes off a '70 W31].
>
>Sound to me more like the list of things that must be ordered WITH an H/O...

Uhhh, yeah.  I was kinda tired when I was sitting here at my computer, what
with the long camping trip and all. ;)

Those are H/O options.  Book says "Customers will special-order Oldsmobile
442's and sign authorization releases with Demmer for the Hurst modifications."

So, they were 442's ordered with those mandatory options, to be modified
into H/O's.  Sorry about that..
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

 "I was put on this earth to accomplish a certain number of things;
    right now I'm so far behind, I'll never die"  --Calvin

------------------------------

From: conrad <conrad@oklahoma.net>
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 18:22:30 -0300
Subject: AC/Air Compressor

I have my 66 TORO in a few hundred pieces and wanted to fix the AC while I have the 
engine/tranny/etc.. out.  Has anyone ever replaced the Fridgadaire (GM) compressor?  
I've called all over town here and nobody rebuilds them here.  I'd prefer to rebuild it, 
has anyone ever done it?  If so, was it very complex?  The seal kit is only $7.00.  I 
can also get a "replacement" for 71.00 or 127.00 with clutch..  

Suggestions please..

Conrad

------------------------------

From: "Shawn M. Twomey" <stwom@ctp.com>
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 15:46:37 -0300
Subject: More t-tops 

>I'd like the numbers for the weather stripping.  What is the purpose of
>the sealant strips as opposed to the weather stripping?  All I know is
>the one t-top leaks nicely on the back floor of the H/O.

Well, the sealant strip is just sort of a protective sheath on the glass
itself, I'm not sure why they couldn't just have the glass edge seal to the
weather-stripping on the car....in any case, if yours looks good, it
probably doesn't need replacement...I'm redoing mine because its coming off
on one corner and contributing to my noise problem.  Try locating the source
of the leak....is the weatherstripping ripped (replace it) or just squished
down so much it doesn't seal well....if its the latter try soaking it in
ArmorAll as Bill Culp suggested.

I'll get you those part numbers.....

____________________________________________________________________________
Shawn M. Twomey     |  "Work and work and love and sex
stwom@ctp.com       |   Aint you hungry for success success success SUCCESS!
                    |   DOES IT MATTER!?!"                   -Rolling Stones
____________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 17:37:02 -0300
Subject: Re: Reatta 

>>The Reatta was a unique design that had no corporate twin... or buyers,
>>either. (I think one of the first signs of a car model in trouble is
>>when the owners form a club for it. :-)
>>
>Wasn't the Reatta hand built??

Ummm... yeah... to a certain extent. I have vague memories of some ad
campaign that played up that angle... a photo of a grimy body-shop
worker holding a blowtorch or hammer or something, posing next to a
new Reatta with a scowl on his face that looked like, "Next time, 
let's use power tools, okay?"

I think the retail price was a flat $25,000.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 21:50:43 -0300
Subject: Re: Starter Problems/Tune Up Question

David Paulison wrote:
> 
>  the alternator should regulate with the
> >engine running so the output would be 12.3-13.0 volts at 3000rpm...
> >
> The regulator will regulate, whether external or internal, not the
> alterantor. I believe it should be around 13.8 volts with the engine > 
> running.

You are correct, sir!  13.8 at a fast idle.  For the battery to charge 
the voltage should be .5 to 1.5 higher than the battery voltage itself.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #189
********************************

