
oldsmobile-digest         Saturday, 30 March 1996      Volume 01 : Number 132


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 12:34:12 -0400
Subject: Re: 350 crank and rods in a 403?

Bob0Barry@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Well, I've decided the Vista Cruiser MUST GO!!! to make room for another
> possible, much more interesting acquisition (I'll keep you updated as things
> develop- lets just say that Toro-mania may soon be headed my way...), 


TOR-O ... TOR-O ... TOR-O

OK, now EVERYBODY!

TOR-O ... TOR-O ... TOR-O


The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Edison 3 <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 09:18:05 -0400
Subject: [none]



------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 12:17:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Canadian Parts and Cars For Sale

Gregg Ludlam wrote:
> 
> >I have to admit that my dad's 68 was why I bought my first 66 back in
> >1971.  I never thought the 68 was butt-ugly
> >
> >.....maybe a little nose-ugly but not butt-ugly.
> >
> >You wouldn't trade your 67 for it, would you Greg?
> >
> >The 66 Toro and Mike
> 
> No Mike, I think my '67 is pretty safe right about now!  Wouldn't mind a
> nice '66 to add to the collection though...      :)
> 
> -Gregg, the '67 Toro guy


I'll keep you in mind if I ever go broke.

(Keep the faith ... my daughter is getting married 
next month so it might be closer than you think!)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 10:24:18 -0400
Subject: RE: '70 350ci. '6' heads

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB1D53.1C420380
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I'm looking for a set of #5 if anyone has them

- ----------
From: 	 GLENN CONNORS[SMTP:BYLN96A@prodigy.com]
Sent: 	Thursday, March 28, 1996 8:12 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	'70 350ci. '6' heads




Have a chance to get ahold of SB #6 heads from a 350ci.  Are they any 
good?
Are they HC heads? What are they worth in good condition?

Glenn '69 4-4-2





- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB1D53.1C420380
Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
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- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB1D53.1C420380--

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 10:26:06 -0400
Subject: RE: 71 Toro engine

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB1D53.208B1EE0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Are you a cheap source for TRW products? Or do they frown upon that sort of thing.




- ----------
From: 	Jason Labay[SMTP:jlabay@Phoenix.kent.edu]
Sent: 	Thursday, March 28, 1996 8:02 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Cc: 	me from myself; oldslist
Subject: 	Re: 71 Toro engine

I can tell you all you want to know about valve rotators...well almost 
everyting:) I work at the TRW Valve Rotator Plant and all we make are 
those little things...and big ones. You should see the size of the 
rotators we produce for General Electric, I think they are used in huge 
generators. I think the only Olds rotators we make now are for the QUAD 4.


Jason Labay                                            jlabay@phoenix.kent.edu
Akron, Ohio                                            xdsg80a@prodigy.com    
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25 H/OCA#0278A                                              
1988 Camaro Z/28 CFI 305...soon to be LT4                                     

On Thu, 28 Mar 1996, Chris Brown Witt wrote:

> According to my research, the E heads do not have hard xst seats, but will have
> rotators on all valves. Toro/442 units would have big valves.
> 
> The 1971 G heads will have Rotators on all valves, hard xst seats, and big
> valves, IF from a Toro/ 442/ W30 application. Rotators on INTAKE only indicates
> small valve units. Look for the Toro motor mount on the front cover, the unique
> Toro oil filter mount that angles the filter markedly forward, RACovers with
> the grommets not in the center, perhaps, the lo-rise intake, and Toro xst
> manifolds with ID letter like D,G,H,K, something around there. *Not* 1 or 4 or
> 5...
> 
> ID clue: 1972 used Ga heads, a little A cast near the G. Different valve sizes,
> seat angles, rotator configuration, hardly ANY big-valve units, not even Toro.
> Avoid the Ga. Best feature: has hard xst seats.
> 
> The block's VIN derivative is on a machined vertical pad at the front of the
> left side of the block, just under the head surface. Scrape off the goo & rust
> [sandpaper works well for the latter] and look for:
>   31M234567
> 3= Oldsmobile car
> 1= 1971, 2=1972, etc.
> M= made in Lansing, Mi., E= NJ, etc.
> 234567= car's VIN sequential production number.
> 
> Oh, and the oil fill tube will have a number stamped in:
>   1456789
> First digit [1, here] indicates year of issue: 1=1971, 2=1972, 8=1968 or 1978,
> etc.
> 
> Those two pcs. of ID should clinch the year of the engine.
> 
> Also, if you want over 8.1 or so compression, you'll be buying other pistons.
> The '71 & later 455's had pitifully low compression due in large part to huge
> dishes in the pistons. Putting head gaskets with twice the thickness in will
> not help much either [all you can get [almost] nowadays...].
> 
> So, either spend the $150 or so to have the C's fitted with hard xst seats [my
> recommendation] or go with the G's which [I believe] already have that feature.
> --
> Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
> wittchri@pilot.msu.edu
> 
> 




- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB1D53.208B1EE0
Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
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=

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB1D53.208B1EE0--

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 10:51:55 -0400
Subject: Re: 350 crank and rods in a 403? 

>> Well, I've decided the Vista Cruiser MUST GO!!! to make room for another
>> possible, much more interesting acquisition (I'll keep you updated as things
>> develop- lets just say that Toro-mania may soon be headed my way...), 
>
>TOR-O ... TOR-O ... TOR-O
>
>OK, now EVERYBODY!

Yes, yes, fine, fine, but what we all _really_ want to know is:

Did you ever get the back seat up?  :-)
- --
Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Dan Dale <daleds@okra.millsaps.edu>
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 12:10:02 -0400
Subject: re: '57 olds 88 

just found out that the car is still for sale! it was put on the web by a
friend of the owner and the real owner should be contacting me soon so I will
let you all who are interested know about it as soon as I find out something.



- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
$Daniel Dale  daleds@okra.millsaps.edu f-list since 2/95 http://www.millsaps.$
$edu/~daleds/index.html  cars: 1972 Cotner-Bevington Oldsmobile 98 Endloader,$
$1973 Imperial LeBaron, 1966 Pontiac GTO, 1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-X 5.7TPI$  
$1955 Cadillac Seville, (2) 1969 Cadillac DeVille Convertibles(one for parts)$ 
$1976 Cadillac Series 75 Fleetwood Brougham, 1961 Imperial Custom            $
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <jlabay@Phoenix.kent.edu>
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 12:20:26 -0400
Subject: RE: 71 Toro engine

  This message is in MIME format.  The first part should be readable text,
  while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB1D53.208B1EE0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii


I wish I could get TRW producrs for cheap. I can't help you there. We get 
no discounts or freebies on parts, at least where I work.

Jason Labay                                            jlabay@phoenix.kent.edu
Akron, Ohio                                            xdsg80a@prodigy.com    
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25 H/OCA#0278A                                              
1988 Camaro Z/28 CFI 305...soon to be LT4                                     

On Fri, 29 Mar 1996, Chris Urban wrote:

> Are you a cheap source for TRW products? Or do they frown upon that sort of thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------
> From: 	Jason Labay[SMTP:jlabay@Phoenix.kent.edu]
> Sent: 	Thursday, March 28, 1996 8:02 PM
> To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
> Cc: 	me from myself; oldslist
> Subject: 	Re: 71 Toro engine
> 
> I can tell you all you want to know about valve rotators...well almost 
> everyting:) I work at the TRW Valve Rotator Plant and all we make are 
> those little things...and big ones. You should see the size of the 
> rotators we produce for General Electric, I think they are used in huge 
> generators. I think the only Olds rotators we make now are for the QUAD 4.
> 
> 
> Jason Labay                                            jlabay@phoenix.kent.edu
> Akron, Ohio                                            xdsg80a@prodigy.com    
> 1975 Hurst/Olds W-25 H/OCA#0278A                                              
> 1988 Camaro Z/28 CFI 305...soon to be LT4                                     
> 
> On Thu, 28 Mar 1996, Chris Brown Witt wrote:
> 
> > According to my research, the E heads do not have hard xst seats, but will have
> > rotators on all valves. Toro/442 units would have big valves.
> > 
> > The 1971 G heads will have Rotators on all valves, hard xst seats, and big
> > valves, IF from a Toro/ 442/ W30 application. Rotators on INTAKE only indicates
> > small valve units. Look for the Toro motor mount on the front cover, the unique
> > Toro oil filter mount that angles the filter markedly forward, RACovers with
> > the grommets not in the center, perhaps, the lo-rise intake, and Toro xst
> > manifolds with ID letter like D,G,H,K, something around there. *Not* 1 or 4 or
> > 5...
> > 
> > ID clue: 1972 used Ga heads, a little A cast near the G. Different valve sizes,
> > seat angles, rotator configuration, hardly ANY big-valve units, not even Toro.
> > Avoid the Ga. Best feature: has hard xst seats.
> > 
> > The block's VIN derivative is on a machined vertical pad at the front of the
> > left side of the block, just under the head surface. Scrape off the goo & rust
> > [sandpaper works well for the latter] and look for:
> >   31M234567
> > 3= Oldsmobile car
> > 1= 1971, 2=1972, etc.
> > M= made in Lansing, Mi., E= NJ, etc.
> > 234567= car's VIN sequential production number.
> > 
> > Oh, and the oil fill tube will have a number stamped in:
> >   1456789
> > First digit [1, here] indicates year of issue: 1=1971, 2=1972, 8=1968 or 1978,
> > etc.
> > 
> > Those two pcs. of ID should clinch the year of the engine.
> > 
> > Also, if you want over 8.1 or so compression, you'll be buying other pistons.
> > The '71 & later 455's had pitifully low compression due in large part to huge
> > dishes in the pistons. Putting head gaskets with twice the thickness in will
> > not help much either [all you can get [almost] nowadays...].
> > 
> > So, either spend the $150 or so to have the C's fitted with hard xst seats [my
> > recommendation] or go with the G's which [I believe] already have that feature.
> > --
> > Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
> > wittchri@pilot.msu.edu
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB1D53.208B1EE0
Content-Type: APPLICATION/MS-TNEF
Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64
Content-ID: <Pine.3.89.9603291135.D23708@Phoenix.kent.edu>
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=

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB1D53.208B1EE0--

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 04:15:00 -0400
Subject: '84 Washer/Wiper 

     Well, I finally got time to replace the washer pump on my '84 H/O.  
     I've had the part for a few weeks, just not the time. . .  Anyway, 
     that was definitely the problem.  Squirts great now (in fact, too 
     good.  Gotta do some tinkering/adjusting).  The pump was easy to 
     replace once I got the whole wiper motor out.
     
     Ok.  Now that it's all back together, it squirts fine, but the wipers 
     won't shut off!  When you turn the wipers on (even on the delay cycle) 
     or use the squirter the wipers come on low and won't go off until you 
     switch off the engine (at which point they stay off until you hit the 
     switch again).  I'm thinking that I must have messed up something in 
     the squirter module, since with the delayed wiper option when you hit 
     the squirter, the wipers are supposed wipe for a few seconds 
     (regardless of what setting the switch is in) then shut off.  Seems to 
     me they're just not shutting off.
     
     Can anyone provide any pointers?  Inside the module it's mostly 
     electronics, with one cam/lever type mechanism, which is the only part 
     I could have possibly put together wrong.  So if nobody has any better 
     advice, I'll dive into that again.
     
     Thanks in advance!
     
     Tom L.
     

------------------------------

From: Cary Yamamoto <yamamoto@unr.edu>
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 12:50:18 -0400
Subject: Ram Air Stuff

Hey olds fans,

Here's the big question.  How much are the air cleaners for a Ram Air 
setup  worth, and does a Buick 70-72 GS interchange with olds?  IF so, I 
found an ad where someone is selling this stuff.  

Buick GS/ Skylark: 67 dual scooped, '69 ram/air, 79-72 ram air; 
$150-175.  65-72 emblems.

Hope this stuff helps out.  I don't own any of these models, so I don't 
know if they will work, but I have seen you post messages about the 
probems of finding these parts.



Cary Yamamoto                                 University of NV, Reno
Coordinator,                                  Prospective Students/110
Prospective Students                          Reno, NV  89557
                                              (702) 784-4865 
	                                      (702) 784-1852 fax	 

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 13:00:31 -0400
Subject: Re: '84 Washer/Wiper 

>     Well, I finally got time to replace the washer pump on my '84 H/O.  
>     I've had the part for a few weeks, just not the time. . .  Anyway, 
>     that was definitely the problem.  Squirts great now (in fact, too 
>     good.  Gotta do some tinkering/adjusting).  The pump was easy to 
>     replace once I got the whole wiper motor out.

Yup. BTW, I found that ANCO is selling those over the counter now, like
the older reciprocating type. Yours was $20 (ouch) at Trak Auto last week.

>     Ok.  Now that it's all back together, it squirts fine, but the wipers 
>     won't shut off!

I trust you reattached the ground strap(s) when replacing the mounting
screws? And is there a big ugly wiring connector plug that goes in the 
side of the casing which is kind of jammed in between the casing and the 
inner fender (at least on the '84 Regal I worked on)? I remember great 
joy at all the weird gymnastics required to get the plug out and back in
again. If yours is like that, too, perhaps one or more connectors missed
when you stuck the plug back in.

Sounds like a self-sustaining relay problem, where the switched circuit
power doubles back through the pilot circuit to keep itself on, since
the ground connection that they're both connected to is broken.
- --
Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 13:50:55 -0400
Subject: Misc.

> Amazing what you can find out here. I still have that stupid 403 rolling aroun
> the back of the truck, awaiting a cleaning of the still-useful parts and decid

Was cleaning out the back of the truck last night... [OK, actualy just
rearranging it...] and happened to measure some of the 403 parts...
Cam: Frontal lobe: base circle 1.458, max dimension 1.705. Subtract the two to
get cam lift; multiply that by 1.6 to get valve lift. I haveno calculator
handy, so that's up to you folks with non-IBM computers... That's the lobe for
the Intake valve of cylinder #1 I believe.
  3rd lobe [xst valve of cylinde #1]: exact same measurements. Numbers achieved
with dial calipers, not micrometer, so plus or minus .002-.005 or so epending
on how long I wanted to fiddle with it.
  Gasket hole: 4.370-4.380 diameter, 0.040" thick.
Dist'r # 1103320, 8J01 [Hmmmm, a 1978-made dist'r on a 1977 engine...] with a
"610-30" vac. advance unit. Wow, 30 degrees of total vacuum advance?
> Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist

> The writeup on cam differences was helpful.  Flat tappet cams have a slight
> lobe face taper (~ .001) to make the valves rotate.  With valve rotator
> retainers, they must really rotate!  FTCs are coated with an oil absorbing

Valve rotators allow/ encourage the VALVE to rotate, not the lifter! In between
is the rocker arm, which presumably does very little rotation...

> Can anyone detail me as to the difference between the '85 & earlier 307s
> (with 5A heads) and the '86s/'87s?  Why are the 5As preferred and what else
> is different?  For instance, Edelbrock's Performer intake is listed as a
> replacement only thru the '85, apparently later-model engines are SOL.

Well, nobody sells stuff that fits 'em, that makes the later heads kinda
useless. I am just guessing here, but what if the AL 4V intake matches the
later 7A? heads, and earlier cast? intakes fit the 5A heads... I have an NOS AL
intake, and was amazed at how SMALL the intake ports are where they enter the
heads. Maybe 3/4 the size of the std earlier sb ports... hardly half the size
of a good bb port... I have exact figures at home, posted them here a while
ago.

> Have a chance to get ahold of SB #6 heads from a 350ci.  Are they any
> good?
> Are they HC heads? What are they worth in good condition?
> Glenn '69 4-4-2

Every part for an Olds is "good"!
+Small chambers make for nice compression, say, on a 403 ;)
+Prolly cheap
+Install 2.000 intakes & you have "W31" heads!
+Good flow, presumably, about the best of all SB heads [W31 castings]
+Large [by 7A stds] intake ports match up to performance intakes
- -No hard xst seats, plan on $150 or so to convert.

Worth whatever you will pay. $15 a pair would be great, $100/pr would be rather
steep since they need the above stuff plus the usual valve job, maybe guides,
etc.

>      Some of the things, (THAT I THINK) make the 81-84 307 better is because
> of the hydraulic engine components.  Cheaper, Less Hassle, Better  Selection
> of parts.  I once saw an ad for a replacement roller camshaft for a 85 up
> 307, it was around $330.  The Hydraulics are much cheaper.

Ahem, let's note the difference in cams here... Roller can be either hydraulic
or mechanical... H/M is just the method used to set/ maintain valve lash, and
Roller vs. flat tappet is how the lifter interacts with the cam.
   Any of the 4 combinations can be had: Roller Hydraulic, Roller Mechanical,
Flat Hydraulic [most common] and Flat Mechanical. Some Olds 307's used the
Roller Hydraulic lifters. Maybe some diesels too. Since these roller lifters
are 0.921 diameter, you can almost certainly just buy a set of flat ordinary
0.921 lifters, and use that block with a std. hydraluic flat tappet cam. Or,
you can stay with the roller cam, roller hyd. lifters. Undoubtedly, the
pushrods would be different between the sorts of lifters...

> bolting it down, it looked really good.  Put the torque convertor in and the

Be sure to turn and turn and wiggle until you are SURE that the tork converter
is in the trans properly. I hate when the trans won't draw up all the way &
it's hard to figure out why. :)

> all the equipment to be put on.  Haven't got the headers on yet but probably

Might be easier the get the headers into place B4 the engine is bolted in
tight! Sometimes you even have to pull the motor and put headers in from above.

>      Does anyone have any ideas of how many miles I should put on the new
> engine before I treat it hard, (in a good way).  I'm thinking around
> 3,000-5,000 miles.  Thanks.
> Brandon

Oh, about 1000. Right after you change from break-in oil to synthetic.

>   Are G heads any good?  I have a set and am wondering if they are worth
> keeping or if I should look for another set?
>                                         Fritz (Dallas,TX)

See above/previous posts.

>           I have been told that the dealer books were not always reliable
>           as they were produced well in advance of the new model release,
>           this one is dated September 1970.
>           Roger Heath, 71 Delta 88 Royale Convertible

Well, I have a bare G big valve head in the garage right now, it has no hard
seats, rotators on all valves, and spring bosses which could have been machined
for short springs [no rotators] on the xst valves, for some other application.
Like small-valve rum-of-the-mill motors.

> Can I use the '72 VC's 350 crank and rods to build this 403? I know the
> dimensions are the same, but would the heavier pistons of the 403 require
> expensive heavy metal to be added to the crank to balance it right? I plan on
> going with the stock-type piston, though I may go forged (I see nitrous in my
> future...), so they won't be custom lightweights. I really want this thing
> balanced and done right the first time, so I can get another 200k miles or so
> from it (don't want to have to rebuild it again until 2014).

You CAN fit 350 parts to a 403. BUT... The 403 crank's balance is no doubt
different, may require HM to get the 350 crank to balance. 403 rods are
heavier, beefier. Go with them if at all possible. If you're going to use a
non-403 crank, get a FORGED 330 unit!
  Get forged pistons, the extra cost in nominal [usually]. Which brings us to
the next issue: for some reason, 403 engine kits are ungodly expensive, about
$200 more than say a 455 kit. Consider it a Luxury Tax I guess...

   > Full size line-up in 1964, in order of line position
> Jetstar 88, Jetstar I
> Dynamic 88
> Super 88 (last year for this nameplate)
> Starfire
> 98
>
   > in 1965
> Jetstar 88, Jetstar I
> Dynamic 88
> Delta 88
> Starfire
> 98
>
   > in 1966
> Jetstar 88
> Dynamic 88
> Delta 88
> Starfire
> Toronado
> 98

Excuse me? the 98 ranked above the Toro? Not likely! Hmmm, lessee here,
98    Toro
Maybe Yes   425-4V
No    Yes   Big valves
No    Yes   Modern 39 degree cam bank angle
No    Yes   Most HP/Tork
No    Yes   called the 'flagship' of the line

> Also, the position of the Jetstar I was more as a low-end version
> of the Starfire, and neither of these was really a part of the standard
> full size line-up designed to appeal to the family man.  Rather, they
> were thought of as "personal luxury" coupes or convertibles.  The
> Jetstar I was never offered as anything other than a two-door coupe
> (hardtop), though.  The Starfire was offered as a two-door coupe or
> convertible every year of its existence (in this incarnation, that was

I was under the impression that, for 1964  anyhow, the J-1 was like a cheap
Starfire, big hot rod, whereas the J-88 [of which I have a fine :) example in a
4-door as the current field bomber] was a really really low-budget big-car:
spacious, but really chintzy on brakes [9" Cutlass units], instrumentation
[Speedo, gas gage, that's it], and engine [330, not the big engine] and trans.
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 13:55:31 -0400
Subject: More Lifter stuff was Re: Heads & Stuff

> 
> >     The different types of cams are *not* interchangeable.  Hydraulic
> > and mechanical cams are different, so if you want to change to either
> > type you have to get the whole bag 'o goodies.  Same goes for roller cams
> 
> Now, why would that be? shape of lifter bottom is same, unlike roller vs.
> flat... is it because hydraluic lifters maintain 0 lash, therefore can accept
> more [or less?] radical lifting ramps?
> 

The way I understand it, different cams are designed for different types of 
lifters.  The lobes are ground so that when used with the lifter it was 
designed for, it opens the valves at the correct point (obviously).  Installing 
hydraulic lifters on that flat-tappet profile won't open them at the 
right time.   I think this is due to the fact that hydraulic lifters 
typically have a slightly greater "bulge" on their face...ie. the face is 
slightly more convex (with mechcanical lifters being almost completly 
flat).  Also, solid lifters can have different pushrod seat heights, so a 
cam/lifter package sometimes requires special length pushrods that match.
	But, it dosn't really matter since you need to replace the the 
lifters with the cam, and since you can often get them as a set, it's not 
really something to worry about.  Hope this clears things up a bit...
	
			Scott
		1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98  

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 14:32:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Misc. 

Ooops, valves on the brain!  Rotating rocker arms would keep the wear on 
them down!  That should be lifters to rotate in their bore.

David Brown
dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu    (312) 702-9157
"Oldsmobile - powerful roadsters with big V8s" [ and rotating LIFTERS ]

- -----------------------
> The writeup on cam differences was helpful.  Flat tappet cams have a slight
> lobe face taper (~ .001) to make the valves rotate.  With valve rotator
> retainers, they must really rotate!  FTCs are coated with an oil absorbing

Valve rotators allow/ encourage the VALVE to rotate, not the lifter! In between
is the rocker arm, which presumably does very little rotation...

------------------------------

From: Doug McClanahan <mcclan@wsdot.wa.gov>
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 15:12:38 -0400
Subject: Deciphering the hieroglyphs

I was checking some numbers on my engine and trying to match them to the 
numbers in the "Year One catalogue for Cutlass and 442".  The engine in 
question came from a '67 CS with AC, PS, PB, and a 2 spd auto.  It is a 
California car and it has an air pump and single exhaust.

The numbers for my block were not in the book but the prefix (w) and 
suffix (g) were listed for the #4 heads as being from a '67 330.  

Since my block numbers were not listed in the catalogue I was hoping that 
someone would know what engine the following block numbers are from:
3944417 3

The sticker around the oil filler tube is gone but I can tell that it 
used to be there.  Year one said that these stickers indicated the 
application of the engine but were only put on '68 - '72 engines.  Is 
this true?  If so it would mean that the block is from an engine made 
after '67 - but the heads are from a '67 330.  I am obviously confused 
about what block I have.  How do I find out what information used to be 
listed on the oil filler tube or what block I have?

Based on some of the discussions that I have been reading from this 
group, the answers to these questions will probably be a slam dunk.

Thanks for any help.  The world could use one less confused person.

------------------------------

From: Paul Elosge <elosge@eco.twg.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 15:26:19 -0400
Subject: RE: Misc.

 Chris  B. Witt (wittchri@pilot.msu.edu) writes:

 > Excuse me? the 98 ranked above the Toro? Not likely! Hmmm, lessee here,

It depends which items are important to you. The 98 and Toro really are
in different universes. As a big luxury barge, the 98 does have the
advantage... why, you couldn't even get power vent windows in the Toro! ;-)

Which reminds me of an incident when my brother and his roomate were
summer interns here in Washington. They were going to go out for some
entertainment... to see the "ladies" for the evening. Now which car
to take? Actually it was no contest, the 98 L/S was definitely the one.
You would have to drive around the block several times in the Pinto
before the "ladies" even took notice! The paying customers would be in a 98.

- - Paul Elosge (elosge@eco.twg.com)

------------------------------

From: bespes1@dakota.isd77.k12.mn.us (Brian Espeset)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 15:30:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Guess What I found in the Attic??? 

>When I was packing getting ready to move, I came across a cool light that I use
>to have in my bedroom.  It was an Oldsmobile showroom advertisement light from
>1964.  It is a large red 4 pointed star sort of elongated (almost ala Starfire
>crest)  with a unsquare white textured box in the center with black Ninety
>Eight
>script on one side and Jetstar I script on the other.  When a light bulb is
>screwed in it there is a Starter relay which causes the light to pulsate.  My
>guess was that these were hung in the showroom windows because they could
>function as a 2 sided advertisement.  Looks real neat at night but can become
>rather annoying after a while but Great for a den!!!!!
>David.Chontofalsky@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu


David is this light for sale?  If it is how much?  Thanks

Technology Education

------------------------------

From: conrad <rad19@icon.net>
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 15:54:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Misc.

Paul Elosge wrote:
> 
>  Chris  B. Witt (wittchri@pilot.msu.edu) writes:
> 
>  > Excuse me? the 98 ranked above the Toro? Not likely! Hmmm, lessee here,
> 
> It depends which items are important to you. The 98 and Toro really are
> in different universes. As a big luxury barge, the 98 does have the
> advantage... why, you couldn't even get power vent windows in the Toro! ;-)
> 
> Which reminds me of an incident when my brother and his roomate were
> summer interns here in Washington. They were going to go out for some
> entertainment... to see the "ladies" for the evening. Now which car
> to take? Actually it was no contest, the 98 L/S was definitely the one.
> You would have to drive around the block several times in the Pinto
> before the "ladies" even took notice! The paying customers would be in a 98.
> 
> - Paul Elosge (elosge@eco.twg.com)


... Come on, While the 98 is a fine car, it just can't compare to the 
sportiness and style of the TORO!

What do you mean by "paying customers?" .. my dates never had to pay!!
I was 16 with my first '66 TORO .. I'm 38 now with my 3rd.  I can assure 
you we've turned heads the first time around the block!

If you want something that is fast, hot , and a "flesh magnet,"  The 
TORO's your best choice between the two!!  

However, there's probably some "Ms Daisy" types out there that would 
prefer the back seat of a 98 so if that's your preference, more power to 
ya.

I'll stick with the Toro.. (no offense intended..)
Rad..

------------------------------

From: Doug Ahern <doug@cobra.cosmic.uga.edu>
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 16:04:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Ram Air Stuff

> Here's the big question.  How much are the air cleaners for a Ram Air 
> setup  worth, and does a Buick 70-72 GS interchange with olds?  IF so, I 
> found an ad where someone is selling this stuff.  

Nope, the 69 Buick GS Ram Air setup is completely different.  The airclear
was two squares the come off the front of the air cleaner with 2
rubber seals the match up to two squares on the hood.  wire mesh covers
the holes, the scoops aren't grapping air through forward facing scoops,
rather there are just holes in the hood.  the 67 "dual scooped" air cleaner
wasn't a cold air air cleaner, it was a space agey looking thing with
two holes on the right and left, as effective as a dual snorkel air
cleaner.  

If you are looking for a cold air induction system.  you have a couple
options:

kenne-bell sells a Olds style ram air kit with the 2 5" dia flex
hoses the run to under bumper air boxes.  $$$ over $375 when I checked
5 years ago.

if you have a 70 and up, get a replacement hood with the scoops, 
then again $$$, or a 69 H/O repro.  you may be able to find a fiberglass
repro of the 70-72 hood or the 69 hood.

buy a drag racing fiberglass hood scoop (I'm not to fond of this, you
have to cut a hole in your hood, hard to reverse) ticket-bait too.

build your own air air induction.  using a large closed air cleaner,
connect 1-2 flex hoses to it and route them to a cold air supply 
source.  early W-30's did this under the bumpers.  I prefer run the
flex hose to a hole cut in the fire wall that accesses the air
in the cowl between the hood and the windshield.  This is were your inside
vents get cold air from.  With out a fan, it comes out of the
vent at a good velocity, this is taking advantage of the "Ram" effect
at the cowl.  Chevy used it for thier ram air on camaros and chevelles.
late 60's tran am racing Z28s and all NASCAR race cars since about '64 
use the cowl as a source of cold air induction.  the problem with the
early w-30 system is (and I might catch flack for this...) it picked up
a lot of road dirt, sand, and salt, and tore up if you hit a curb..

The most important part of cold air induction is a good seal throughout
the system, so that all the air intake comes form that source.


Doug Ahern      doug@cosmic.uga.edu  1964 F-85 Cutlass 
http://www.cosmic.uga.edu/doug.html  1969 Dart 
Sys Admin, COSMIC, Univ. of Georgia  1974 Satellite ex-cop car

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 17:00:29 -0400
Subject: Re: 350 crank and rods in a 403? 

In a message dated 96-03-29 10:07:15 EST, you write:

>>> Well, I've decided the Vista Cruiser MUST GO!!! to make room for another
>>> possible, much more interesting acquisition (I'll keep you updated as
>things
>>> develop- lets just say that Toro-mania may soon be headed my way...), 
>>
>>TOR-O ... TOR-O ... TOR-O
>>
>>OK, now EVERYBODY!
>
>Yes, yes, fine, fine, but what we all _really_ want to know is:
>
>Did you ever get the back seat up?  :-)

I'll try tomorrow; thankfully, I don't have to dig the thing out from today's
snowfall(!), and it might actually be sunny. 

I'm going to strip the front end, at least, and perhaps pull the top half of
the engine so I can check out the 7a heads (which is really why I bought it).
I'll do the doors and interior over Easter, and perhaps the front suspension
the weekend after, once I get a spring compressor. Then, all those moving
parts go onto my forlorn SX sitting beside it.

With the heads and accessories off, I'm wondering whether I can get some
chain and iron pipe, hook it to the 350 shortblock, and pull it without a
lift, which I am not going to be able to buy immediately. I recall being able
to handle a 455 bare block with one other person, but the recip. assembly may
be too much for us to press.

Oh, and about removing the woodgrain, that was my insane identical twin
half-brother using my account... ;)

So the Vista goes within two weeks, dad is happy, wife is happy, baby doesn't
know what is going on but likes getting hands dirty, all while (insert 60's
spy music) Bob is plotting to replace the family truckster hulk with a
"personal luxury coupe" hulk, unbeknownst to everyone else. Details to
follow...

Bob Barry
1970 Cutlass Supreme SX
1978 Olds 403-powered Electra
???? ????


BTW, not that this is related or anything, perhaps for now a hypothetical
question: how difficult is it to replace the tranny seal on a '69 Toro...?
Yeah, the but-ugly butt-ugly puggly puggly wuggly one... ;)

And which engines were available, and in what HP ranges? I've heard 375hp and
400hp; were both big-valve, or was one just ram air?

------------------------------

From: "Shawn M. Twomey" <stwom@ctp.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 17:48:08 -0400
Subject: 307 heads 

>I pretty sure that from 80-84 all 307s came with 5A heads.  I don't
>actually know if all 85s came with 5A heads because my brother's 85 Salon
>has 7A heads and everything is original in the emgine bay.  The same with my
>86 Salon, it had 7A heads and it is probably because of the roller
>components in the engine?

I'll check my '85 442 this weekend, see if its 5As or 7As.

__________________________________________________________________________
Shawn M. Twomey     |  "No!  Try NOT!  Do, or do not.  There is no try."
stwom@ctp.com       |  -Yoda
__________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

From: "Shawn M. Twomey" <stwom@ctp.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 17:54:15 -0400
Subject: valve sizes 

>Depends on your goal... you are trading driveability and throttle response for
>all-out ooomph. Choices: Std #7, 403-std/W31 [2.000"], or Max [2.072]. Exhaust
>valves similar...
>Std: best driveability, low cost, mild cams
>larger: rowdier, use a bigger better cam to take full advantage, don't expect
>crispy throttle response at low speeds.
>Max: if you are using low gears, high stall converter, baddest upper 10% cam,
>making a street stomper, max the valves' sizes. To hell with driveability, I
>want POWER at wide open throttle...

If I were to get those #5 W31 heads with 2" valves & get a cam to match,
what kind of intake manifold will match these puppies?  I had planned on
getting an Edelbrock Performer, because I want a real torquey,
seat-of-the-pants 350-not necessarily the all-out fastest.  Are the valves
too big for that?

__________________________________________________________________________
Shawn M. Twomey     |  "No!  Try NOT!  Do, or do not.  There is no try."
stwom@ctp.com       |  -Yoda
__________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

From: jsmith@radware.net (James Smith)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 18:18:03 -0400
Subject: RE: '70 350ci. '6' heads

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB1D8F.8BF8FC60
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

The Head's that you want to look for on a small block are "5" "6" "7" Thay are all The HC head and are the best for stock head


- ----------
From: 	 GLENN CONNORS[SMTP:BYLN96A@prodigy.com]
Sent: 	Thursday, March 28, 1996 7:12 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	'70 350ci. '6' heads

Have a chance to get ahold of SB #6 heads from a 350ci.  Are they any 
good?
Are they HC heads? What are they worth in good condition?

Glenn '69 4-4-2




- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB1D8F.8BF8FC60
Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
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- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB1D8F.8BF8FC60--

------------------------------

From: jsmith@radware.net (James Smith)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 18:30:58 -0400
Subject: break-in RE: Tom Millard's cars & 5a heads

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB1D8F.923B28A0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Personally I would Put at least 1,000 mile on it very easy but from then =
on you need do be a little harder on it if you are Going to be hard on =
it down the road. after another 1,000 get a little harder and so on till =
about 5,000 total and the you can give it hell. if you baby an engine =
for 5,000 miles and then give it hell you are asking for trouble. the =
bet way is to break it in like you are going to drive it but work your =
way into in gradually like I said above.=09
	James Smith=09
	jsmith@radware.net


- ----------
From: 	John Schmich[SMTP:schmich@AZStarNet.com]
Sent: 	Thursday, March 28, 1996 7:36 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Re: Tom Millard's cars & 5a heads


     To let you guys know on the progress of the engine swap on the 86
Salon.  Today, we put the Edelbrock on and with the gaskets and after
bolting it down, it looked really good.  Put the torque convertor in and =
the
flexplate on the block.  After that, we set it down in and tomorrow we
should get it bolted up to the trans.  It will now be ready to come home =
for
all the equipment to be put on.  Haven't got the headers on yet but =
probably
by Sat. or Sunday.  We're hoping to turn it over by Weds. of next week.  =

     Does anyone have any ideas of how many miles I should put on the =
new
engine before I treat it hard, (in a good way).  I'm thinking around
3,000-5,000 miles.  Thanks.

Brandon




- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB1D8F.923B28A0
Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64

eJ8+IiMWAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG
ADQBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAE8AAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd
AQ9UAgAAAABvbGRzbW9iaWxlQGNjbi5jcy5kYWwuY2EAU01UUABvbGRzbW9iaWxlQGNjbi5jcy5k
YWwuY2EAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgADMAEAAAAZAAAAb2xkc21vYmlsZUBjY24uY3Mu
ZGFsLmNhAAAAAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYAAAAeAAEwAQAAABsAAAAnb2xkc21vYmlsZUBjY24uY3Mu
ZGFsLmNhJwAAAgELMAEAAAAeAAAAU01UUDpPTERTTU9CSUxFQENDTi5DUy5EQUwuQ0EAAAADAAA5
AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAzw6AQiABwAYAAAASVBNLk1pY3Jvc29mdCBNYWls
Lk5vdGUAMQgBBIABACsAAABicmVhay1pbiBSRTogVG9tIE1pbGxhcmQncyBjYXJzICYgNWEgaGVh
ZHMAsw0BBYADAA4AAADMBwMAHQAQAB4AOgAFAGABASCAAwAOAAAAzAcDAB0AEAAXADcABQBWAQEJ
gAEAIQAAAEVBODY0RDEwN0M4OUNGMTFBN0QwNDQ0NTUzNTQwMDAwAPEGAQOQBgBwBgAAEgAAAAsA
IwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5ACClJWe/HbsBHgBwAAEAAAArAAAAYnJl
YWstaW4gUkU6IFRvbSBNaWxsYXJkJ3MgY2FycyAmIDVhIGhlYWRzAAACAXEAAQAAABYAAAABux2/
ZwsQTYbriXwRz6fQREVTVAAAAAAeAB4MAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AHwwBAAAAEwAAAGpzbWl0
aEByYWR3YXJlLm5ldAAAAwAGEKU+60ADAAcQIQQAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAAAFBFUlNPTkFMTFlJV09V
TERQVVRBVExFQVNUMSwwMDBNSUxFT05JVFZFUllFQVNZQlVURlJPTVRIRU5PTllPVU5FRURET0JF
QUxJVFRMRUhBUkRFUk9OSVRJRllPVUFSRUdPSU4AAAAAAgEJEAEAAADlBAAA4QQAAEgIAABMWkZ1
KE+xmf8ACgEPAhUCqAXrAoMAUALyCQIAY2gKwHNldDI3BgAGwwKDMgPFAgBwckJxEeJzdGVtAoMz
dwLkBxMCgH0KgAjPCdk78RYPMjU1AoAKgQ2xC2DgbmcxMDMUUAsKFFGlC/JjAEAgUASQcwIggQdA
bHkgSSB3CGBUbGQa4HUFQGEFQGyEZWETwCAxLDAdECQgbQMQZSACICBpvQVAdgSQG4AcoRuAYhwx
sQNSIHRoCfAdknkIYMwgbgngHABkbx6QHYD2YRyAHdB0HXERgQSBHZVPBpAfowrAHYBHbwuAZ98f
ICBTITIdlSBAdwOgHzHiIANgYWQuHFABgCFx3QBwbx8xBcAc9GcRwCCf7wBwHAAbIB2SdAMQAyAB
oPsIYAVANR0DIxABkChhJ6HLJHIfsmMDkWdpHgAdwu8fQBtgJPAiBWIBoBuAA5H/CfAqoB/wHtAF
sSjkHVIEIG8ppSqMIiccsGsi0izidPUDYHUCYGUk8CRyIHAFQDx3YRuABAAjAxYQYWu3IcMDoCDA
ayoEInJnIsbeZAUQKsQeohvAcjJgH7F/BcAxgwIwIFAysQnAJNB19xtTMuMboHMLcBwAKIEeAJou
DIIgCoY4QkphB4JOUx1QHzA4P2pzObJA1zaBMYAWEC4f8HQKhTwsMwr0IMAxOB0QAgBpLXgxNDQN
8AzQPnMLWTGuNgqgA2AT0GMFQC1Al68Khz9LDDBAFkYDYTpBntNAFjj0b2gDoFMRcB1QgRFwW1NN
VFA6BPChRcNAQVpTAZByB8DkdC4FoG1dQT9CTQZgJwIwQ39Ei1RoCHBzZB0xkCwF0ArAEXAgMjgB
THAxOTk2IDc6MjNNYFBNR99CTVRvl0ofRIsG8GQ7EG9iHWGQQGNjbkeAcy5MQN8rUCpgTf9I7jCg
akBRUB+5RItSZVXgT/AfEE0oQZ0LEScEICpgEaAgJijQ9yCgH0Ak0HM8nz2jTaA/F/8aRUAWCoVd
M0/wHIEFQB+y5Gd1E7AgayWAB+AoAu8kgUARCcEEEW8iECRyLHXJA+BhcF7WODYKhQYQ7xWgUsBd
ckxDd18xHDEkcspFDbBsMiBvYzJgHaHvJ5ID8B8wJGNnL8ERwC3E/yUTCoUG4SgwIuEj9UxwHdH9
FaBvMwAcADIxG2IzsARw/2JhHCIkciMQE2AKUCpQAiA/HgFp4TKiKaUKhRjgZXi/C1ET0F7WAmBk
EWJhQSUj/x8wHGBi4xGxI+dq9gNwBbDPA2AH4GMACoVzaBvTJlL3NKJm4SARdWDwIxFpozaA+wCA
YmFJMWEoQl6iIHEyMf5kG4AjEUeRIRF00izhCoX/G1FgBGoQBSAHgAIwIwVjMsliQ0hhHgBuJwVA
M7D/Y1RZghsBH3MmYR6iQBEr8X8bcGZmG4AGEEdwHZBh8XXHJ6AxkGJhV2UnIoFw4PpwItV0CHAd
szfxexN8cO9SEHuRIhAf8HgxYQngbVL5XNpEby2zH7AssRGAKsH/gNEdwA2wHLBf0nDgB+ADgX8b
gC2EN2Fw5HeEJGMf8Hf/CoUsdSBwLOE3QjBwHKBuo7shMkxwKGryaOMxcilzEv4nHxILgC/jCsAI
YCegCoX6Mx0CLS0pYmIRgIiwUvDtPCxCctEgQG48L1oPWx8VXC8gFTEAkXAAAAADABAQAAAAAAMA
ERAAAAAAQAAHMGBL3Wq+HbsBQAAIMGBL3Wq+HbsBHgA9AAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAOP2

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB1D8F.923B28A0--

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 18:43:10 -0400
Subject: Re: '70 350ci. '6' heads 

According to Joe Mondello, number 6 small block heads are the best flowing
head (untouched)  In other words, if you don't plan on porting them, they
flow better than any other SB Olds head.  He passed on this info to me last
week when I was inquiring about heads for my 403.  Keep in mind though that
they do not have hardened seats.               
Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey King <jking@exame2.dseg.ti.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 20:52:44 -0400
Subject: Delmont 88

I don't wish to beat a dead horse, but since I learned to drive
in a '67 Delmont 88, I thought I'd chip in my 2 cents worth.
The Delmont 88 was available with both the 330 and the 425 
engines (at least in '67).  My father's car was a '67 Delmont
88 4 dr hardtop with the 330.  Nothing really fancy, but plenty
nice.  I have a couple of pictures I can scan if anyone is still
interested by next week.

On another note... anyone have a current copy of an old car price
guide?  I need a quote on my '61 Super 88.  I'm not sure of the
rating system number, but it's only got 58K miles on it and it's
in very, very good original condition (see it on the Bryceman's
web page http://www.cjnetworks.com/olds/king.html ) and let me
know what it's worth.  I'm not going to sell it unless I have to,
but the roof's leaking, kids are needing new shoes, etc., etc.

- -- 
================================================================
Jeffrey W. King(N5PNU) Internet: -----> jking@exame2.dseg.ti.com
Route 1, Box 290       Internet/packet:   n5pnu@dfwgate.ampr.org
Krum, TX. 76249        Packet:    N5PNU @ N5AUX.#DFW.TX.USA.NOAM
817-482-3446 (home)    214-597-1021 (pager)
214-956-6714 (work)    If none of the above works:    HEY YOU!!!
================================================================
              1961 Oldsmobile Super 88 Holiday Sedan
================================================================

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 19:32:59 -0400
Subject: Silly question... 

I know this is a stupid question, but how do I access the .dat files I
download from the mail list??????  I don't have any (IBM) software that
recognizes them.  Thanks for the help... Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 19:39:23 -0400
Subject: Hardened seats... 

OK, lately we have been discussing hardened seats on both SB & BB heads.
 According to Mondello (please don't think I live & breath Joe Mondello, but
I talked to him recently and got some info I would like to verify), Olds
heads have hard induction hardened seats, not pressed in ones.  So how do you
tell by looking at them?  

BTW, as I mentioned earlier, Joe said that his tech book was delayed because
some of the info he got directly from GM (Olds) Engineers was incorrect.  His
actual words were that the info he had "was dead f***ing wrong"  This is why
I put forth a few questions now and then to get some accurate info.  Oh
well.... Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com 

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 19:40:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Bryce's web page... 

Sorry for the delay, but I will give you some info on my 86 442 pretty soon!
 Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 11:45:38 -0400
Subject: Re: break-in RE: Tom Millard's cars & 5a heads 

     What my dad said he always did, and what I've always done was (after 
     the cam break-in of course) baby the engine for the first 500 miles, 
     change the oil.  Drive it "normally" not rough WOT, but don't baby it 
     for another 1500 miles (to 2000 miles total) and change the oil again. 
      This time you can use synthetic if you want, and now you can go out 
     and stomp on it.  Oil changes at every 3k after this point.  You 
     should vary speed and throttle during the break-in period, esp. the 
     first 500 miles.  Don't spend too much time at any one speed.
     
     I've heard stories though of Moly rings with synthetic oil that take 
     10k to seat properly.  YMMV

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: break-in RE: Tom Millard's cars & 5a heads
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    3/29/96 3:15 PM
     
Does anyone have any ideas of how many miles I should put on the new
engine before I treat it hard, (in a good way).  I'm thinking around 
3,000-5,000 miles.  Thanks.
     
Brandon

------------------------------

From: Jason Labay <jlabay@Phoenix.kent.edu>
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 21:12:24 -0400
Subject: Re: '84 Washer/Wiper

Tom, my Z/28 had the exact same problem when I put a new pump on. IT 
turned out to be a bad ground. The part where the body of the motor meets 
the firewall was corroded bad and a good contact wasn't made. Once I 
cleaned that up the wipers turned off fine. I don't know if thats your 
problem, but it may be an area to consider.

Jason Labay                                            jlabay@phoenix.kent.edu
Akron, Ohio                                            xdsg80a@prodigy.com    
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25 H/OCA#0278A                                              
1988 Camaro Z/28 CFI 305...soon to be LT4                                     

On Fri, 29 Mar 1996, Tom Lentz wrote:

> 
>      Well, I finally got time to replace the washer pump on my '84 H/O.  
>      I've had the part for a few weeks, just not the time. . .  Anyway, 
>      that was definitely the problem.  Squirts great now (in fact, too 
>      good.  Gotta do some tinkering/adjusting).  The pump was easy to 
>      replace once I got the whole wiper motor out.
>      
>      Ok.  Now that it's all back together, it squirts fine, but the wipers 
>      won't shut off!  When you turn the wipers on (even on the delay cycle) 
>      or use the squirter the wipers come on low and won't go off until you 
>      switch off the engine (at which point they stay off until you hit the 
>      switch again).  I'm thinking that I must have messed up something in 
>      the squirter module, since with the delayed wiper option when you hit 
>      the squirter, the wipers are supposed wipe for a few seconds 
>      (regardless of what setting the switch is in) then shut off.  Seems to 
>      me they're just not shutting off.
>      
>      Can anyone provide any pointers?  Inside the module it's mostly 
>      electronics, with one cam/lever type mechanism, which is the only part 
>      I could have possibly put together wrong.  So if nobody has any better 
>      advice, I'll dive into that again.
>      
>      Thanks in advance!
>      
>      Tom L.
>      
> 
> 

------------------------------

From: ngomez@iadfw.net (Nick Gomez)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 1996 00:16:12 -0400
Subject: RE: Misc. 

>It depends which items are important to you. The 98 and Toro really are
>in different universes. As a big luxury barge, the 98 does have the
>advantage... why, you couldn't even get power vent windows in the Toro! ;-)

My big luxury barge is very bare bones, it doesn't even have hazard lights!
It's the lowest of the 98s. I've seen a convertible 98 (64-66), two doors
are very nice.

The Toro does have hidden headlamps, a plus! =)
BeaTniK

     ------------------------------------------------------------------
     1965 Oldsmobile 98 Town Sedan   TIP # 1048   I Trade Live Concerts
     Always Buying Nirvana Items   MiSTie # 53344       Keep On Skankin
     ------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: ngomez@iadfw.net (Nick Gomez)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 1996 00:16:05 -0400
Subject: Re: 350 crank and rods in a 403? 

>>> Well, I've decided the Vista Cruiser MUST GO!!! to make room for another
>>> possible, much more interesting acquisition (I'll keep you updated as things
>>> develop- lets just say that Toro-mania may soon be headed my way...),

I was talking Olds' with a guy today and he told me about a Vista Cruiser
that used to drag race. It was called the "Vista Bruiser" if I'm right. It
had the 455, and raced in lower classes due to the weight. Anyone know
more? He also told me about an exhibition Cutlass with two engines.

I got some really cool hood ornaments from him, one looks like it's from a
Pontiac, one's from an early 50s Olds, and the other...maybe a C---y. Well,
good luck with the Toro!
BeaTniK

     ------------------------------------------------------------------
     1965 Oldsmobile 98 Town Sedan   TIP # 1048   I Trade Live Concerts
     Always Buying Nirvana Items   MiSTie # 53344       Keep On Skankin
     ------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: Charley Buehner <buehner@cis.nmclites.edu>
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 1996 04:07:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Ram Air Stuff

On Fri, 29 Mar 1996, Cary Yamamoto wrote:

> 
> Hey olds fans,
> 
> Here's the big question.  How much are the air cleaners for a Ram Air 
> setup  worth, and does a Buick 70-72 GS interchange with olds?  IF so, I 
> found an ad where someone is selling this stuff.  

	Don't know, doubtful, but cool!  I've got a '70 GS455 with the 
Ram Air, and the dual snorkel will definately NOT fit the Rocket... 
(Unless I smash down that big oil filler tube!)  It fits in there 
sideways, but that doesn't exactly look all that cool!  Give us more 
details tho, I might be interested in the parts  *(They are also kinda 
hard to find.  I think $150's probably a good price...)*

 

> 
> Buick GS/ Skylark: 67 dual scooped, '69 ram/air, 79-72 ram air;  >
$150-175.  65-72 emblems. > >
 Hope this stuff helps out.  I don't own any
of these models, so I don't > know if they will work, but I have seen you
post messages about the > probems of finding these parts. 

      Charley Buehner      | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu" 
      Box 1255             | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501 | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"           | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"           | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties)      
    

------------------------------

From: Charley Buehner <buehner@cis.nmclites.edu>
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 1996 04:19:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Misc.

On Fri, 29 Mar 1996, conrad wrote:

> Paul Elosge wrote:
> > 
> >  Chris  B. Witt (wittchri@pilot.msu.edu) writes:
> > 
> >  > Excuse me? the 98 ranked above the Toro? Not likely! Hmmm, lessee here,
> > 
> > It depends which items are important to you. The 98 and Toro really are
> > in different universes. As a big luxury barge, the 98 does have the
> > advantage... why, you couldn't even get power vent windows in the Toro! ;-)
> > 
> > Which reminds me of an incident when my brother and his roomate were
> > summer interns here in Washington. They were going to go out for some
> > entertainment... to see the "ladies" for the evening. Now which car
> > to take? Actually it was no contest, the 98 L/S was definitely the one.
> > You would have to drive around the block several times in the Pinto
> > before the "ladies" even took notice! The paying customers would be in a 98.
> > 
> > - Paul Elosge (elosge@eco.twg.com)
> 
> 
> ... Come on, While the 98 is a fine car, it just can't compare to the 
> sportiness and style of the TORO!
> 
> What do you mean by "paying customers?" .. my dates never had to pay!!
> I was 16 with my first '66 TORO .. I'm 38 now with my 3rd.  I can assure 
> you we've turned heads the first time around the block!
> 
> If you want something that is fast, hot , and a "flesh magnet,"  The 
> TORO's your best choice between the two!!  
> 
> However, there's probably some "Ms Daisy" types out there that would 
> prefer the back seat of a 98 so if that's your preference, more power to 
> ya.
> 
	I don't know...  As for my 77 Toro, that old HOOD was quite 
comfortable...  (Hmmm....)   Now, what about these "paying" customers?  
Excuse me, we own Oldsmobiles,  They should be paying US!  :o



> I'll stick with the Toro.. (no offense intended..)
> Rad..
> 

	Charley Buehner		Rockit 1

------------------------------

From: Charley Buehner <buehner@cis.nmclites.edu>
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 1996 04:25:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Ram Air Stuff

On Fri, 29 Mar 1996, Doug Ahern wrote:

> > Here's the big question.  How much are the air cleaners for a Ram Air 
> > setup  worth, and does a Buick 70-72 GS interchange with olds?  IF so, I 
> > found an ad where someone is selling this stuff.  
> 
> Nope, the 69 Buick GS Ram Air setup is completely different.  The airclear
> was two squares the come off the front of the air cleaner with 2
> rubber seals the match up to two squares on the hood.  wire mesh covers
> the holes, the scoops aren't grapping air through forward facing scoops,
> rather there are just holes in the hood.  the 67 "dual scooped" air cleaner
> wasn't a cold air air cleaner, it was a space agey looking thing with
> two holes on the right and left, as effective as a dual snorkel air
> cleaner.  
> 
> If you are looking for a cold air induction system.  you have a couple
> options:
> 
> kenne-bell sells a Olds style ram air kit with the 2 5" dia flex
> hoses the run to under bumper air boxes.  $$$ over $375 when I checked
> 5 years ago.
> 
> if you have a 70 and up, get a replacement hood with the scoops, 
> then again $$$, or a 69 H/O repro.  you may be able to find a fiberglass
> repro of the 70-72 hood or the 69 hood.
> 
> buy a drag racing fiberglass hood scoop (I'm not to fond of this, you
> have to cut a hole in your hood, hard to reverse) ticket-bait too.
> 
> build your own air air induction.  using a large closed air cleaner,
> connect 1-2 flex hoses to it and route them to a cold air supply 
> source.  early W-30's did this under the bumpers.  I prefer run the
> flex hose to a hole cut in the fire wall that accesses the air
> in the cowl between the hood and the windshield.  This is were your inside
> vents get cold air from.  With out a fan, it comes out of the
> vent at a good velocity, this is taking advantage of the "Ram" effect
> at the cowl.  Chevy used it for thier ram air on camaros and chevelles.
> late 60's tran am racing Z28s and all NASCAR race cars since about '64 
> use the cowl as a source of cold air induction.  the problem with the
> early w-30 system is (and I might catch flack for this...) it picked up
> a lot of road dirt, sand, and salt, and tore up if you hit a curb..
> 
> The most important part of cold air induction is a good seal throughout
> the system, so that all the air intake comes form that source.
> 
> 
> Doug Ahern      doug@cosmic.uga.edu  1964 F-85 Cutlass 
> http://www.cosmic.uga.edu/doug.html  1969 Dart 
> Sys Admin, COSMIC, Univ. of Georgia  1974 Satellite ex-cop car
> 
> 
The newer ones ('81 and up at least) have those two nice little slots in 
the bumper next to the license plate.  Those work great!  (Got one side 
hooked up, and can feel the difference.  Running a dual snorkel with one 
under the hood and the other getting the cold Ram Air.  As soon as I 
find/build a good dual snorkel that fits right, I'll hook the other side 
up too.)  As it is, around 2500, the "secondary" snorkel opens up, and 
you really can feel a little more pulling.  The GS had this occurance 
quite well up around 70.  Just sucks you into the seat there.  Gotta luv it!

	Charley Buehner		Rockit 1

------------------------------

From: jsmith@radware.net (James Smith)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 1996 11:03:55 -0400
Subject: server test

This is a Server test because I haven't been getting my mail

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #132
********************************

