
oldsmobile-digest            Friday, 3 May 1996         Volume 01 : Number 165


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 01:14:27 -0300
Subject: stuff

Weekend plans? Indeed. started out as test & tune at the dragway, Engine in
yesterday, buttoned up today. Never had one w/ NO leaks before. Even got TDC of
COMPRESSION and got the timing right 1st try.

It ran great... for 3 minutes. Siezed tighter than any engine I've ever
encountered. It's currently completely dismantled in the garage again.
:( :( :( :(
Made Lake Erie of ATF upon extraction. In the SNOWY weather, with wind that
prohibited using newspaper to sop up the mess.

Ate the #1-2 rod bearings- crank may not be grindable. :(

Good news: the 67 Toro 425 crank I picked up last year had a primo crank. So,
if worse comes to worst, I can still build it OK... but, the balance...

- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: clark@sh28.dseg.ti.com (Pat Clark 952-3776)
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 14:58:00 -0300
Subject: Re: stuff

> 
> It ran great... for 3 minutes. Siezed tighter than any engine I've ever
> encountered. It's currently completely dismantled in the garage again.
> :( :( :( :(
> Made Lake Erie of ATF upon extraction. In the SNOWY weather, with wind that
> prohibited using newspaper to sop up the mess.
> 
> Ate the #1-2 rod bearings- crank may not be grindable. :(

> Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
> wittchri@pilot.msu.edu


Any ideas as to why this happened?

P.S - its 80+ here in Texas today!


          ___              ___        _________
         /   |            /   |      /         \
        /    |           /    |     |   ___    |
       /     |          /     |     |__|   |   |
      /      |         /      |           /   /   
     /       |        /       |          /   /   
    /   /|   |       /   /|   |         /   /
   /   /_|   |__    /   /_|   |__      /   /
  |             |  |             |    /   /
  |______     __|  |______     __|   /   /_____
         |   |            |   |     |          |      Pat Clark
         |___|            |___|     |__________|       69 442
						      400/400

   "Just your average 300+hp garage hogging, gas sucking, money pit"

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 07:42:58 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Computer Blues 

     I have the VIN 9 engine.  The .440 lift is probably right, I was kinda 
     unsure about that when I was trying to decipher it off the diagram.  I 
     looked at a listing of some random aftermarket Olds cams and ALL of 
     them were more than .424 lift, so I thought something was up. . .
     
     Heck, if you find an '84 H/O computer in the boneyard, *I'LL* be down 
     there with a trailer hauling it and the attached car off.  I wasn't 
     meaning for you to try an H/O computer, just any chip from any '84 
     Olds might be enough to make a difference.  Of course, the H/O chip 
     would be ideal though.
     
     All you really need to do to the car is a cam change, right?  That 
     shouldn't be too big of a deal on a fresh engine.  Remember to use new 
     lifters though.
     
     Does Rhoads even make lifters for Old's?  Using their variable 
     duration lifters might smooth out your idle enough to get your vacuum 
     back up.  I've been told they're noisy however.
     
     Did you ever do that post you mentioned on the Headers and Edelbrock 
     Intake?  My provider was down for a while and I mighta missed it.


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Computer Blues
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    5/2/96 10:12 AM


     Thanks.  Just before I read your letter here, the lady from my local
auto parts store gave me the specs:  
     
VIN 9  262 duration 274 exhaust, .440 lift on both, .275 but can't remeber 
what this was. 
Execpt 9  250 duration (?) exhaust, .400 intake .401exhaust, .250      ''
     
     Similar.  I can't remeber what you told me before, but do you have a Y
or 9 VIN code? 
     
     I appreciate that, and believe me, if it wasn't finals week and I had a
trailer at my fingertips, I'd be up there Sat. morning and take you up on your 
offer.

     
     

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 16:41:48 -0300
Subject: Re[3]: Computer Blues 

A friend used Rhoads in his 350 6 or 7 years ago.  I think they also have a 
quieter vari-duration lifter out as well.  Somewhere I remember that Crane 
also had a silent vari-duration lifter.

One caution: Watch out for being given Chevy lifters instead of Olds.  The 
oil hole is different between the two - measure one of your old ones and 
verify with tech support.  Learned about this from the list - thanks guys!

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    "Oldsmobile - powerful roadsters with big V8s"
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu

- ---------------
     Does Rhoads even make lifters for Old's?  Using their variable 
     duration lifters might smooth out your idle enough to get your vacuum 
     back up.  I've been told they're noisy however.

------------------------------

From: jrjet@whidbey.net (Dot & Tim McChesney)
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 16:32:49 -0300
Subject: Re: junkyard distributors 

>        This may be a stupid question, but what is the likely-hood of a person
>being able to buy a 76-77 HEI out of a junkyard and have the thing work fine?
>It just seems to me that an electronic device that is almost 20 years old
>should be in need of repair or replacement. Any thoughts you guys?
>
>I put a HEI  from a junk yard in my 71 cutlass 455 in 89. It cam out of a
>75 cutlass 455 put new cap and rotor on it, ran great and still does.

Tim, 71 cutlass convert

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 16:12:23 -0300
Subject: Re: Gas money 

At 12:37 PM 5/1/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Any one getting a little uncomfortable about these gas prices?  How do 
>you think it will affect the value of the older Olds's?  What is the 
>price for premium where you live?
>
>
>
>
Two weeks ago it was about $1.50/gallon, now it's down to $1.40/gallon.
- --
Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 16:40:19 -0300
Subject: Re: junkyard distributors

At 08:42 PM 5/1/96 -0300, you wrote:

>As I've opined before, why pay $200 for an aftermarket when you get one the
>best high output ignitions on the planet for peanuts and if a failure occurs,
>repair parts at any auto parts chain? 
>
>Both my cars have been converted to HEI.  I carry one extra of each
>electrical component just in case.
>
>Bob Handren


Can somebody tell me if there are specific years/cars I should look for to
pull an HEI for my 69 Cutlass?

Thanks!
- --
Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 16:49:24 -0300
Subject: Fwd: Rochester Carb ID's 

This apparently didn't get through the first time I sent it.
- ---------------------
Forwarded message:
Subj:    Rochester Carb ID's
Date:    96-05-01 19:42:17 EDT
From:    BobH592058
To:      oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca

According to my AC-Delco Rochester references the 7027131 carb is for a '67
Toronado.  
Dave Paulison's carb number 7028273 is probably worth a few bucks.

It goes to a '68 Firebird V-8 manual trans with Ram Air 400 engine!

The references I used are an AC-Delco set of service documents covering
everything built by Rochester used by GM and other manufacturers, including
marine applications.  It covers everything up to port fuel injections systems
from the '60 through the 80's.  In addition to all the info on numbers, etc.,
it also contains a bunch of fantastic information on how each system works
including the electronic Q-jets.  You guys into the +/- early 80's cars
probably NEED this information. It appears to be the same texts used in GM
training courses.  

The entire set is just plain neat.  It's overal size fills three 3-ring
3-inch binders to bursting - no exageration. They contain complete rebuild
instructions, part numbers for all parts, cross references to newer part
numbers, discontinued numbers, etc., etc.

The part number to order from AC-Delco is "09XC, 9X Rochester Carb Parts and
Service."  The address I have is AC-Delco, 35,000 Industrial Road, Livonia,
MI 48150-1250.  No phone number.  I got mine almost exactly 1 year ago.  The
cost you are asking?  How about $15.  That's no typo, that's what I paid -
$15 which also included one year of updates (none came).  For ~$30 you can
get the AC-Delco binders as well. I passed although they are probably a deal
as well. Maybe one of you guys on the list local to Livonia can get more
info. It is hard to beat since it is such a wealth of quality information and
so cheap.

I learned about it from a series of letters in Camaro Craft magazine (Car
Craft for those who don't know the less than positive although accurate
alternative reference).  I am pretty sure if you write AC-Delco a letter
requesting the correct order form to obtain 09XC they will send it to you -
they did to me.  According to one of the letters in C.C., AC-Delco has many,
many copies.  It seems one of the carb rebuild shops started a rumor that it
was no longer available. I wonder why they would want to start a rumor like
that? ;-)

To my surprise, the rebuilt carb I bought for my '67 some time back actually
has the correct p/n for the car!  I didn't realize that until I looked it up
in the AC-Delco books.

If some of you would like me to look up a number or two for you I'll oblige
provided it doesn't add too much time to the amount I already spend each day
reading and commenting.  I'll do what I can as time allows. You don't know
what piece of gold might be in your collection of old Q-jets.  If you have
any 2 barrel Rochesters you may be hiding that '66 tripower center (or end)
carb in the pile.

Bob Handren
'67 W-30 Modified
'70 Cutlass SX Convertible

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 16:50:31 -0300
Subject: Fwd: junkyard distributors 

- ---------------------
Forwarded message:
Subj:    Re: junkyard distributors
Date:    96-05-01 19:42:09 EDT
From:    BobH592058
To:      oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca

There should be no reason for an HEI to wear in one direction or another.
 There is no "pressure" on the shaft from a points set.  Even if there is
wear such that a wobble exists, it probably won't effect much as long as the
magnets can activate the module.  With a points distributor, wobble can
change dwell and timing by changing the relationship of when the points
close.

I got my HEI for $35 with a guarantee.  If it don't work, pull another.

Many HEIs in the yard I was looking in had no modules.  Everyone else took a
spare so why not you?

You can replace all the electrical components in an HEI for about $15 each:

     Module
     Ignition coil (in the cap)
     Pickup coil (under the module/advance plate.

As I've opined before, why pay $200 for an aftermarket when you get one the
best high output ignitions on the planet for peanuts and if a failure occurs,
repair parts at any auto parts chain? 

Both my cars have been converted to HEI.  I carry one extra of each
electrical component just in case.

Bob Handren
'67 442 W-30 Modified
'70 Cutlass SX Convetible

------------------------------

From: eda@dl.tc.faa.gov
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 17:16:38 -0300
Subject: G-Body Tach 

Well, fixed the tach in the H/O this weekend, thanks to Tom Millard for identifying the source of the problem *and* the detailed instructions on taking the dash apart.  Grabbed a couple of PC expansion-slot covers, but ended up using something similar to Andy's bike-tire removal tool with tape; actually I think it was an offset screwdriver (kind of S-shaped).  The key here is something one of you guys said: "When you're pulling way harder than you think you should be, that's when it'll come out!"  Also keep your tool as close to the clips as possible.  The only damage was when I pulled a mightaswell and yanked off the curved trim cover on the passenger side (nothing to do with the tach, just wanted to touch it up a bit; see below).  Broke the plastic stud that holds one of the clips in, but it was easily fixed with plastic cement and reinforced (damn near invisibly, I might add) with black electrical tape.  Some notes on the process below, for those of you who filed away Tom!
 's instructions for later use.

1.  The bolt for the optical sensor was 7/32".

2.  While I do have working cruise, it's apparently a bit different; servo must be located elsewhere (still not sure where, I thought it was this thing mounted off the front top of the engine, but now I'm not sure; anyone?)  Anyway, the good news is it doesn't hook up to the instrument panel; I unclipped the speedo cable and that was it!!

3.  Another thing I noticed, after bending that little metal pice, is that the red plastic clip that holds it in (all the way to the left of the instrument panel as you're facing it) pushes through the panel and is retained by a clip thing on one side (does this make any sense?) i.e., it pushes through a hole, then this clip, that is compressed to go through the hole, springs back out and prevents it from pulling back through.  Thing is, this tends to put pressure on one side of the metal jumper and not the other.  So, I basically shimmed it with a small folded piece of electrical tape.  (This paragraph will make more sense when you take the dash apart and actually see the thing, I promise!)  The tape pushes "up" on the side that makes strong contact with the metal, thereby pusing "down" onto the side that doesn't.

4.  This is a good time for detailing those trim panels!  Used some model paint to touch up the forwad edges of the vents (don't know if these were painted for all models or just the H/O) and the outer edge of the panels, around openings, etc.  Outer edges of panels seem to call for "chrome" more than silver, though, which I didn't have.  So, maybe not factory-new looking, but real close; a hell of a lot better than before, anyway.  An alcohol wipe does wonders on that white (really, it is!) lettering on the headlight switch.  One problem, though, I washed up the clear plastic cover on the instr. panel, now it seems spotted...but like the spots are *inside* the plastic somehow!  Guess I'll scout for a better one, but what causes this?

5.  Careful on the routing of the wires for that optical sensor!  Do it wrong, and the copper circuitry in the flimsy plastic backing of the i.p. won't seat on the contacts sticking out from the dash, but the assembly as a whole will seem like its seated....hmmm, high beams and *both* turn signal indicators on?  Or would you prefer no guages at all?  Where's that new toy (digital meter)?  Hmmm...
got voltage... DOH! :-)

Glad to know I can get those panels off without breaking anything - previous method was "When you're pulling way harder than you think you should, STOP!" :-)  Then yearn for the 'just find the screws' design of the '77.  Even better is some of the stuff on the '85 Firechicken (hey, I bought it for my S.O., okay?  Guys...stop! ;-)  Anyway, I will give them credit, to remove the radio cover plate: Grasp and pull.  No kidding.  Not even real hard.  Guess they figured, everybody puts a stereo in these things, might as well make it easy!

Thanks again to Tom M., and to Tom L. and Andy for the trim-plate-removal-tool suggestions.

Ed Atlee			'77 Cutlass Supreme
eda@dl.tc.faa.gov		'84 Hurst/Olds
	R O C K E T	P O W E R E D ! !

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 16:31:46 -0300
Subject: Re: G-Body Tach 

>The key here is something one of you guys said: "When you're pulling way 
>harder than you think you should be, that's when it'll come out!"

Yup. They're still putting stuff together that way, too, unfortunately.
After my first experience with the Bonneville's dash faceplate and the
service manual that basically said "Step 1: Pull Real Hard", I wiped some
Vaseline on the clips before snapping it back together. Hopefully next
time it will come out a bit easier.

>2.  While I do have working cruise, it's apparently a bit different; servo
>must be located elsewhere (still not sure where, I thought it was this 
>thing mounted off the front top of the engine, but now I'm not sure; anyone?)

I think I saw an '86 that had the servo (the thing that connects to the
carb linkage, you mean, right?) on the left (driver's side) wheel well
forward of the washer fluid reservoir, with a looping Bowden cable that
curved around to the carb linkage. Not an aftermarket job; the wheel
well housing had molded pedestals for it to bolt on to.

>One problem, though, I washed up the clear plastic cover on the instr. panel,
>now it seems spotted...but like the spots are *inside* the plastic somehow!
>Guess I'll scout for a better one, but what causes this?

Um, water inside the plastic?  :-)  Whenever I get this far with a dismantled
dash, I unscrew the faceplate and clean it up. It removes by just unscrewing
the silver-headed screws around the perimeter; if you have a trip odometer
you may need a tiny screwdriver to undo the reset knob if it comes through
the plastic.

All you need is dishwashing soap and a _soft_ cloth. The slightest bit of
scrubbing will fog it. Just soak it under running water, glob some detergent
over it, wipe it over with a wet cloth and rinse thoroughly. Air dry or use
a soft towel, and the results should be crystal-clear.


Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: eda@dl.tc.faa.gov
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 17:58:16 -0300
Subject: Re: AUGH!  Cooling problems 

Okay, remember I said it looke like it was blowing out the cap?  Well, I was wrong. :-)  But let's back up a bit.  Sunday I went to start up the '77 (pretty much sitting now, it's in *rough* shape bodywise, and a few things went wrong just as the *really* cold weather set in).  Battery dead.  Slow to take a charge, dies again, won't start.  Less than 2-yr old battery, but since the alternators fairly new, and I put on a new neg. cable & body ground, etc., last year, I'm suspecting the battery.  Anyway, somehow can't find the keys for it after that, along with the key to my mom's car.  Okay, back to cooling.

Monday evening, drive all over looking for a cap.  Where do you find the stock caps these days, anyway?  Finally settled on an aftermarket til I could find an original.  Check mixture, okay, test drive.   Steam.  Not cap. Radiator core.  Spend rest of Monday evening removing radiator.  Where's the damn petcock?  Oh, on the bottom (expected bottom of engine side of radiator, not bottom of radiator!)  Looks like somebody had a problem with that lower tranny line (pressure fittings about 2-3" back from the one that goes into the radiator.  Sheesh no wonder; a lot more room under the hood of the '77 than in the '84!

Tuesday morning, take to shop.  $148 for new core, labor, etc.  Not bad considering the H.D. cooling and all.  Can pick up at 3, cool, back on the road maybe 6, allowing some time for Murphy.  2:30 hop in Mom's car, stop for antifreeze a town or two away.  Hmm, this spare key I grabbed is a little tricky.  (Lost mine, remember?)  Come out of store, go to pass. side to unlock door (driver's side door lock is shot).  Hmm, this key is real tricky.  Hmmm, it's raining.  Hmm, can't slim jim with power locks, Chr*sler's locks a bit difficult anyway.  Result:  get some pizza, hang out in pouring rain for about 2 hrs. periodically trying key.  S.O. at work, Mom's S.O. at work, '77 dead, H/O radiatorless, so Mom's stuck at home, everyone we know working.  Aunt brings out keys around 5, now too late to pick up radiator.

Wednesday, take Mom's car to work (can't miss two days for a radiator!), stepdad graciously picks up radiator for me, as he's off.  Wed. night, start on radiator around 8, not done til about 11 (yeah, I know, I could swear it was a 10-minute deal on the '77) by the time I piddled around cleaning this and that and removed the overflow and cleaned it up and wrestled the tranny lines into place - top one just didn't want to thread, so I thought the radiator was seated wrong, finally decided if the line broke, oh well, and applied the necessary pressure.  Ahh, but then comes the test drive, and am I glad to have my car back!! :-)

Thursday morning, ahh, get to go to work in *my* car, hey what's this on the floor in the back?  The other half of my keys.... ***:-|

> difference, but it did for ME!!! Are you sure your pump has never been 
> changed??

Well, now we know it was the radiator, but, yeah, pretty sure - it's black (like the engine) and it's ugly (lots of surface rust).  Which means, I guess I'll be doing it real soon, and I'm not looking forward to it - too much freakin' clutter around that thing!!  But I'll keep in mind to look for one with a cast-iron impeller, where'd you find yours?

BTW, you can mightaswell your way into a lot doing a radiator (I didn't since I needed to get it done quick).  Hmm, sh*t, that water pump'll be the next to go, mightaswell...wow, this radiator hold-down panel could use a paint job...so could this panel unerneath, and this...mightaswell pop off the header panel and do it all...whew, okay, fan, belts, waterpump...wow, with that out of the way, mightaswell do those power steering lines...okay, paint's dry, power steering lines done, geez, I cant put these back on without painting the frame...mightaswell yank the engine... :-)

Incidentally, anyone (who's read this far!) know what's good for all the underhood metal, some kind of semi-gloss black or something?  How to sand it, power circular sander?  how 'bout those bolts, soak 'em, blast 'em, what?

Ed Atlee			'77 Cutlass Supreme
eda@dl.tc.faa.gov		'84 Hurst/Olds
	R O C K E T	P O W E R E D ! !

------------------------------

From: MIKE COCCAGNA <mikec@pop.kis.net>
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 19:21:34 -0300
Subject: re:  Gas Money

[snip & paraphrase]
> S-10 gets  45-50 mpg at 85 mph.
> Buddha (zack) 

What hole do you think we climbed out of?  No Ch*vy S truck has this 
ability for economy.  If anyone believes this, I have a nice bridge 
you could buy.....


Mike
'91 W-40 Quad442 (180+bhp, AND 33+MPG - ask the EPA!)

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 18:18:45 -0300
Subject: re:  Gas Money

At 07:21 PM 5/2/96 -0300, you wrote:
>> S-10 gets  45-50 mpg at 85 mph.
>> Buddha (zack) 
>
>What hole do you think we climbed out of?  No Ch*vy S truck has this 
>ability for economy.  If anyone believes this, I have a nice bridge 
>you could buy.....
>
>
>Mike


Yeah, maybe in a Honda CRX or a Geo Metro or something, but a 4.31 liter V6
in a truck?  And especially at 85 mph, your gas mileage is gonna go down, if
anything, from the gas mileage you get at 55 mph, due to the wind resistance
(aerodynamics, man!)...

Just my $.02
- --
Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 18:34:16 -0300
Subject: Olds

My dad found this...



>From: srobert@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu (Scott Robert Kietzmann)
>Newsgroups: rec.autos.marketplace
>Subject: FOR SALE 1968 CUTLASS $800 FIRM!
>Date: 30 Apr 1996 20:14:32 GMT
>Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee

>Please email me for more information!
>I live in Milwaukee!
>srobert@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu
>THANKS!
>
>
>
I think my love of Oldsmobiles is rubbing off on him. He's been driving a
'67 VW Bug for a couple years now, and just recently he's been talking about
selling it and buying a "musclecar".  Cool!
- --
Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 18:43:51 -0300
Subject: re:  Gas Money

> Yeah, maybe in a Honda CRX or a Geo Metro or something, but a 4.31 liter V6
> in a truck?  And especially at 85 mph, your gas mileage is gonna go down, if
> anything, from the gas mileage you get at 55 mph, due to the wind resistance
> (aerodynamics, man!)...
> 
> Just my $.02
> --
> Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
> dpauliso@metrolink.net

No.  Your gas mileage always goes way up, if you drive south.  It's
because you're going downhill.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-8007    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: Brian Bunner <b3bunner@barnabas.indwes.edu>
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 18:47:30 -0300
Subject: Re: oldsmobile-digest 

unsubscribe b3bunner@barnabas.indwes.edu

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 21:17:04 -0300
Subject: re:  Gas Money

At 06:43 PM 5/2/96 -0300, you wrote:

>No.  Your gas mileage always goes way up, if you drive south.  It's
>because you're going downhill.
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -----
>Robert Lawrence   


Just make sure you've got a tailwind...
- --
Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 22:34:38 -0300
Subject: Re: AUGH! Cooling problems (and paint and bolts?) 

In a message dated 96-05-02 17:07:45 EDT, you write:

>Incidentally, anyone (who's read this far!) know what's good for all the
>underhood metal, some kind of semi-gloss black or something?  How to sand
it,
>power circular sander?  how 'bout those bolts, soak 'em, blast 'em, what?
>
>Ed Atlee			'77 Cutlass Supreme
>eda@dl.tc.faa.gov		'84 Hurst/Olds
>	R O C K E T	P O W E R E D ! !

I stay'd with ya, Ed! I think one major function of this group is sympathy
amongst people like ourselves, who would otherwise feel alone in our
projects/travails/psychosis.

I'm in the market for the paint that would make my 403's snorkel air cleaner
look factory fresh again. I know that gloss and flat black are wrong, so I'm
assuming a semi-gloss or satin finish. Any good (i.e. $3.50/can) sources for
this? Or a Krylon/Rustoleum name or # for this paint?

Yeah, and what about home hot-tanking with draino? What will that do for
those cruddy engine bolts (greasy&rusty) that I'd like to reuse?

BTW, any good experiences with aftermarket head bolt kits including the stud
for accessories? I'd really like to keep the alternator... ;)

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 22:32:24 -0300
Subject: Stainless pipe... 

OK, this has nothing to do with Oldsmobiles, but actually it does.  I am
currently thinking of replacing a section of both my upper and lower radiator
hose with stainless pipe (on my 79 Cutlass--see Bryceman's page)  If anybody
has a G-Body Olds with a V8 (Olds, of course...), you can easily see that you
can cut the middle of the hoses out and replace the upper one with 1 1/2" d.
18" l. pipe and the lower one with 1 3/4" d. 12" l. pipe.  Sounds like a
'trick' idea?  I'm sure it will look really good if I buff out the pipe and
the stainless clamps.

But the only problem is that I cannot find this diameter (1 1/2" & 1 3/4")
pipe anywhere.  Sure, I can buy a 12' piece of each for more than $150, but I
need less than 3' combined!  Does anyone know anybody who uses this pipe and
might have some scrap pieces or is there anyone who sells this?  I've looked
in Hemmings under exhaust and called all the local places with no luck.  Any
help would be appreciated!  Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com

   

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 22:32:22 -0300
Subject: Re: G-Body Tach 

Ed:  Glad to hear my instructions helped you out!  To clean your plastic
cover, try using Meguires (sp?) plastic polish.  It's the stuff they use for
cleaning the lenses on motorcycle helmets and such.  I worked on a couple of
my dashes... Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 22:48:37 -0300
Subject: Food for thought... 

Pleas ignore this if you received it twice...

OK, here are some interesting questions for you guys...   Now that I have
both my summer cars out of storage, I can't even think straight.

1.  350 heads on 403:  I have been toying with the idea of putting 7a
(subscript A) heads on my 77 403.  I purchased a set, and right now they are
being tanked and pressure tested at a local machine shop.  I know that I have
to increase the size of the head bolt holes and pilot holes, and increase the
size of the intake valve to 2".  I will also increase my compression from
approx. 8.0:1 to 9.0:1.   I am only running an Edelbrock Performer cam and
would probably wind up doing some porting and polishing along with filling
the heat riser's.   So will this change make a big difference?

2.  Lifter Preload:  Can anybody send me some directions on how to adjust the
lifter preload on my 403 (in the car...)  I think I have a valve hanging up
(not fully closing) and would like to adjust the valve train using the shim
stock (in .010 increments) that was mentioned earlier.  I understand that you
have to shim both the intake and exhaust, but it is much cheaper than
Mondello's goodies...

3.  Spark plug heat ranges:   I just installed a Crane Hi-6 ingition box
along with a PS 92 coil.  After inspecting the cap and rotor after 100 miles
or so, the carbon brush has melted right through the cap  (actually two
quality caps).   So here is some thought on why the intense heat:  first of
all, it would seem that there is excessive resistance somewhere in the
ignition.   The wires are fine, with about 300 to 600 ohms per foot (roughly
1kohm per wire) .  I am using a Mallory cap-adapt for using an external coil
with an HEI distrib.  So there are two things left, the carbon wire brush and
the spark plugs.  I know the carbon brush has alot of resistance, and the
tech at Crane also said that was 90% of my problem.  So I ordered an Accel
low resistance brush and am going to try that.  If that fails, I am going to
make one out of copper and suffer with the noise in the radio.  But on to the
spark plugs:  I'm sure most of you now that Olds engines tend to have large
spark plug gaps, .060 for my 77 403.  In theory, this is good, because the
larger the initial kernel, the better the combustion (accoring to Jacob's
book 'The Theory on Ignition")  But in all reality, that is a lot of added
resistance (air!) and Crane recomends a .045 gap with there ignition.  The
Crane tech also said that there research has not shown a benefit to running
over a .045 gap.  So on to the real question:  I currently run Autolite 847's
(heat range 7) with a .060 gap.  Since the plugs are "roughly" gapped from
the factory for there application,  to change them from .060 to .045 would
cause the center electrode and ground strap not to be parallel (which should
be avoided). To re-bend the ground strap would work but seems like alot of
work that might not be so easy or beneficial.   But if you look at an
Autolite 86 which is exactly one heat range colder (heat range 6), they are
gapped at .035.  So to move them to .045 still keeps the center electrode and
ground strap parallel.  But will the colder plug (which is stock for my 73
350), cause any problems or loss or perfomance?  The car is street and strip
driven and I don't think it will cause a problem, but I would like some
input.  Sorry for all the background, but hopefully it will help.

4.  Mondello's tech manual:  I called Mondello's today and they said that the
manual is at the printer's and they should have it next week.  I know that
everybody here is not to fond of Joe, (including me), but let's face it, his
book would be a welcome addition to any of our libraries.  I am anxious to
see it, especially the serial numbers for the solid web 403's.  Oh, and
believe it or not, I talked to Joe about a technical question today
(Wednsday!  not Tuesday or Thursday between 2:00 and 5:00!!!!)  It was sort
of by accident, but he helped me out.

5.  Thanks for taking the time to read this!  I appreciate any help you guys
put forth...  Tom Millard  OLDSPWR@aol.com

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 23:01:56 -0300
Subject: Here she is... Miss America 

Miss America Oldsmobile convertibles where a common sight in my home town in
Southeastern PA from what I understand.  One of the columnists for the local
paper (used to be & still is on the local AM radio, too) used to buy one
every year from the Local dealer (George H Wise, Inc).  He writes about them
in paper every so often.  The dealer used to send one of his employees down
to Atlantic City and he would drive the convertible in the parade, and then
bring it back to the dealership.  Newspaper guy would buy them with the Miss
America lettering still on the doors.  He'd take his mother for rides in them
and little kids reportedly used to ask her if she was Miss America.  His '60
98 is still around town somewhere, its painted yellow now (instead of white)
and is sort of rough.  Would be a neat car to restore, though.  I've seen '60
98 Pace Car replicas, but never a Miss America Car.  Some of  his cars even
had the sash, from the young lady riding in the back seat, tucked away in the
glove box.

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 23:01:56 -0300
Subject: Re: A/C Conversion 

In a message dated 96-05-02 10:35:03 EDT, you write:

>
>Um, a convertible _what_? You didn't mention...

Sorry, '72 C/S

>Anyhow, mentally ticking off the things that would differ between an A/C
>and non-A/C car:
>
>-- bigger cooling system: radiator, water pump (you mentioned)

As you note, this has already been done (I even forgot that I had installed
an A/C radiator)

>-- possible different heater core (different shape for different housing)

Yes.  At least the heater hoses end up at a different location, anyway.  I
assume that , means a different core.  Have the one from the parts car,
although I would probably want to replace with a new unit.
>-- engine wiring harness, to accommodate compressor clutch wiring, assorted
>pressure switches (I'm not an A/C expert)

Yep, got all that.

>-- front suspension: beefier springs, perhaps different anti-sway bar

Was planning on the springs.  That will most likely be part of the disc brake
conversion, when it gets done.  Sway bar?  Didn't think about that.

>-- repositioned belt-driven components (e.g. alternator) to fit compressor

Done.  Different pulleys are installed.  Alternator moved.  Compressor
installed (no belt -- no point to it right now).

>-- higher-capacity alternator, come to think of it

Done.  Took the alt. off of the A/C car and had it rebuilt to boot.

>-- dashboard wiring harness, to HVAC controls

Got that.

>-- HVAC control panel hardware and vacuum-operated servo motors and ducts

Got that too.

>-- dashboard vents (heck, just swap the whole dashboard :-)

Already replaced the dummy vent in the center of the dash with an A/C vent.
 Have everything else except the drivers vent & duct.  Even have the two
piece lower dash panel to fit around my 8-track.  Only thing I need yet are
the kick panels (one without vents).

>This is just an overview and not all the above would need to be changed
>necessarily, but should be considered.

Looks like I'm all set, if I could just work up the nerve to get the firewall
cut.

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 23:13:18 -0300
Subject: Re: A differnet A/C question 

At 11.58 05,02,96 -0300, you wrote:
>
>Hi everyone.  8^)
>
>This Friday/Weekend I'll be removing the A/C from my '81 Cutlass.   Before
>anyone tries to talk me out of it, I want you to know that I am pretty set
>on this.   My parnets never had an A/C car when I was growing up, and I
>rarely used the A/C in wither of my previous car.  Plus, the Cutlass A/C
>only pukes out warm air.
>

and the R-12 refrigerant costs an arm and a leg

>SO basically I was wondering what I shoudl look out for.  Any tricks or
>warnings from someone who has done this previously?
>
>Thanks
>Clint
>
>                          _________
>Rocket Boy!             _|_ _\\____|_     '81 Cutlass Supreme
>clint@darklair.com       |___//____|      (G-body with F-pieces)
>
>----------------------------------------------------------
> clint@digex.net          Clint        DIGEX Full Time IP  
> (301) 847-6225          Thompson          (301) 847-5156
> (410) 898-5252       Mon-Fri: 9a-5p       (410) 898-5156
>----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
      ___
     /. .\
    _\_*_/_                     -<Buddha>-
   / /   \ \                   Buddha@itw.com
   \_\___/_/            HTTP://www2.itw.com/~buddha/
  /___\_/___\ "That which does not kill us makes us stronger"
 *************

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 23:22:33 -0300
Subject: Re: 307 

>>     No, I don't think so.  But I always wondered if the Toronado in 90(?)
>with the 307 V8 had a fuel injection system of some sort, TPI?  If so, that
>would be a great project.  Hey, maybe even for your Olds truck.  Now you
>would have everything.  
>     Speaking of your Olds truck project, I was looking through some old
>Sport Truck magazine in search of a article I once saw about a guy doing
>exactly what you are.  In actuallity, it wasn't a feature article but it was
>a Reader's Ride section.  It doesn't tell a whole lot but it does show a
>picture of the S-10 with the Bravada clip on it.  Looks smooth because its
>different.  It is the March 1992 SPORT TRUCK.  Page 96.
>     Here is what it says:
>
>     OLDS-10
>     Here's a really neat idea that never occurred to us: Put an Olds
>Bravada grille on a an S-truck.  Jeff Bundy of St. Joseph, Michigan,
>performed this subtle custom trick on his 89 S-10, and he also installed a
>Bushwaker front spoiler and a Bell Tech rolled pan.  A Craftec tailgate
>smoothie panel cleans up the rear.  And a Firebird spoiler on a homemade
>hard tonneau cover.  Its also dropped and has a watersplashing paint job.
>
>     Good Luck.
>
>Brandon
>
>

thank you for the info...mine will be the hunter green that is available for
the bravda, the color will be cool, and the tailgate will have an oldmobile
decal with the rocket...and the wheels are 90 Z28's with the recesses
painted body color with custom olds centres, it was lowered in the rear, and
i might lower it in the front...as for the year of the engine...right now i
am looking for a better way to get more power out of the 4.3 V6...its
already at 220 hp, but I want more...any suggestions?
                         zack
      ___
     /. .\
    _\_*_/_                     -<Buddha>-
   / /   \ \                   Buddha@itw.com
   \_\___/_/            HTTP://www2.itw.com/~buddha/
  /___\_/___\ "That which does not kill us makes us stronger"
 *************

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 23:30:24 -0300
Subject: re:  Gas Money 

At 19.21 05,02,96 -0300, you wrote:
>[snip & paraphrase]
>> S-10 gets  45-50 mpg at 85 mph.
>> Buddha (zack) 
>
>What hole do you think we climbed out of?  No Ch*vy S truck has this 
>ability for economy.  If anyone believes this, I have a nice bridge 
>you could buy.....
>

sorry man, BUT you are wrong on this...i even have the reciepts to prove
it...this milage occured on a trip to Lynchburg VA, via I-81...i was amazed
myself...but it happened...so if you want the proof...i have it
                    zack

>
>Mike
>'91 W-40 Quad442 (180+bhp, AND 33+MPG - ask the EPA!)
>
>
      ___
     /. .\
    _\_*_/_                     -<Buddha>-
   / /   \ \                   Buddha@itw.com
   \_\___/_/            HTTP://www2.itw.com/~buddha/
  /___\_/___\ "That which does not kill us makes us stronger"
 *************

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 23:34:23 -0300
Subject: re:  Gas Money 

At 21.17 04,29,96 -0300, you wrote:
>At 06:43 PM 5/2/96 -0300, you wrote:
>
>>No.  Your gas mileage always goes way up, if you drive south.  It's
>>because you're going downhill.
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-----
>>Robert Lawrence   
>
>
>Just make sure you've got a tailwind...
>--
ok...just read the last few posts and got fed up...the actual mpg was 41.632,
there was a 10 mph wind coming from the NW...for about half of the trip...i
was heading south...sorry, it wasnt 50 mpg...but damn close for an S-10

>Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
>dpauliso@metrolink.net
>
>
>
      ___
     /. .\
    _\_*_/_                     -<Buddha>-
   / /   \ \                   Buddha@itw.com
   \_\___/_/            HTTP://www2.itw.com/~buddha/
  /___\_/___\ "That which does not kill us makes us stronger"
 *************

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 23:56:40 -0300
Subject: Re: Comfortron 

In a message dated 96-05-02 21:11:59 EDT, you write:


>Glad you responded! This supports my comment a few weeks ago re: the
>similarities (commonalities) between Toros and other Olds models! ALL Toros
>are Oldsmobiles, but not all Oldsmobiles are Toros. However, they are not
>mutually exclusive!!

Im glad you're glad. :)

>You may have pre-solved my Comfortron woes!! My Toros also can be
perpetually
>stuck in the de-icer mode! 

No, mine isn't stuck in De-ice -- that's the only way I could get it to work.
 After a few minutes of normal operation it would shut down completely --
wouldn't do anything.  If I put it to De-ice, it would work, but
unfortunately only throw heat from the defroster vents as it's supposed to.
 If I put it back to normal operation again, it would work for a few minutes
before it would again shut down totally.  Now I have the vacuum hoses plugged
into each other instead on into the heater control valve.  System works
flawlessly now, except that it works immediately upon start-up instead of
waiting for the engine to reach operating temperature.
         
>BTW...$800 for a reciever/dryer?

No, that's what finally corrected the problem.  Here's what was happening.
 At idle A/C worked flawlessly.  After driving approx. 5 miles, A/C would get
warm.  Under the hood, A/C lines were covered with a HEAVY frost, like the
inside of an old freezer.  Took it to the Olds dealer (thought he knew what
he was doing).  They said it was the POA valve.  Replaced valve, got car
back.  Car had same problem before I was even half way home.  Called the
dealer, raised the roof.  They said to bring it back.  Now they think it's
the expansion valve.  Get one.  Dealer calls says come get it.  Went to get
it, but it's not ready.  Expansion valve didn't fit, they had to get another
one.  Waiting, waiting.  All this time the car is in and out of the shop with
the mechanic working on it and road testing it.  When it's out, it's raining,
then sunny, then raining, then sunny.  Now the paint has all kinds of little
water marks etched into it.  Not happy about that! :(  2nd expansion valve
comes, didn't do the trick (but they want to leave it on because the old one
was 27 years old and probably wouldn't have lasted much longer anyway).
 Mechanic says he's on a real witch hunt and has no idea what to do.  This
man's been doing A/C work for over 20 years and he can't fix it.  I'm ready
to sell, but who's gonna but the damn thing if the A/C don't work?  Then I
get to thinking, not all the lines are frozen, just from the compressor to
the POA valve (that evidently wasn't the problem either, but they wanted to
leave it on because the old one was 27 years old...).  "Maybe something is
blocked in the lines?"  Yeah, they tell me, that's a possibility.  Then I'm
thinking some more, "Isn't there a bag in that receiver/dryer?  Don't they
break sometimes?"  Yeah, they tell me, thats a possibility.  It's now that
the mechanic tells me that when he had the system apart the first time to
replace the POA that the lines seemed to have "sand" or "dirt" in them.  He
claims he never saw this before!  So they'll get a r/d. It'll take about a
week.  Wrong! OCA Nat's are in three days.  I get one myself overnight.  They
install it after they do a complete system flush (then a backflush).  And are
those chemicals expensive!  Finally car is done, A/C works flawlessly again.
 With all the labor, parts, chemicals and freon, this bill came to all but
$800.  Then the heater control valve went bad...

Paul  


>Greg K                          
>
>

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 23:56:43 -0300
Subject: Re: Comfortron 

Greg -

In a message dated 96-05-02 21:11:59 EDT, you write:

>I (supposedly) have 3 NOS heater control valves coming from a previous parts
>deal soon for a 67 Toro. I only need two, the other you are welcome to
>purchase (assuming it fits the 98).

Yeah, if the price is right, I'll take the third one off your hands.  I can't
believe that these valves are so different from year to year.  Wonder why a
'66 or '68 wouldn't work.  '68 thru '70 are supposedly the same.  Fusick says
the part # for '67 is 396927.
>
>I would be interested in you photocopying the '66 Comfortron manual and
>sending via the US Mule. I will cover costs of copying and mailing, if you
>can find the time.
>I would appreciate it.
>
>E-mail me if you are willing to do so for my address and yours to send the
>check.     

The manual is 28 pages.  My address is:

Paul Hartlieb III
617 Mayflower Dr
Myerstown, Pa  17067

This manual was a big help to me.  Of course, the first time I tried to
diagnose it, I followed the wrong trail on the flow chart and ended up with
half the dash out of the car and couldn't find a problem.  Started all over
and realized I should have answered No instead of Yes (or vice-versa) and was
led to the HCV.  Plugged those vacuum lines together & presto -- working
Comfortron again.  I was so relieved!  And I did it myself and didn't have to
rely on the damn dealer.  I knew if they didn't know enough to fix the
regular A/C part of system, there was no way they were gonna be able to
service the Comfortron part.  And think of what the bill would have been.  I
had visions of paying another $800.  I figured I could screw it up just
easily as they could, and save myself a lot of money in the process.
 Fortunately, it turned out to be something simple.  I was so afraid it was
going to be the "brain" or something like that.  I *never* wanted a
Comfortron car, but now I've got one.  I'm waiting to see what happens next!

Paul

------------------------------

From: Jeff Hunter <jchunter@xcelco.on.ca>
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 23:57:03 -0300
Subject: IRC Meet Recap  

Hello All;

I would like to formally apologize for all who tried to make it to the
meeting on DALnet, but: a)could not get on.
                b)could not find anyone.
                c)did get on but could not talk to anyone.

Due to the major problems we had on DALnet last night.  We moved over to
Anothernet which would explain why you could not find us. Anothernet was
much better.  It is for that reason that we are moving all future Oldsmobile
Mailing List meetings to AnotherNET, at these servers:

        neato.ca.us.another.org
        dragon.ne.us.another.org
        sunrise.ca.us.another.org
        TGF.vt.us.another.org


Please note those that had to switch to anothernet last night, if you found
it difficult to connect, it is because I gave you a bad server name, and
only the ones above should be used.

The next meeting will be held Thursday, May 9th: 8:00PM  

I would like to thank all those that made it, as well as those who tried to :)

Jeff Hunter
jchunter@xcelco.on.ca

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 01:09:04 -0300
Subject: Gas money 

well, having thought about it I am going to let the cat out of the bag...the
mpg was 41.6, but this is only because of drafting...saves ALOT of gas over
the long haul...so you guys that thought it couldnt be done...it was...and
sorry i didnt tell you guys earlier :)
                    Zack
      ___
     /. .\
    _\_*_/_                     -<Buddha>-
   / /   \ \                   Buddha@itw.com
   \_\___/_/            HTTP://www2.itw.com/~buddha/
  /___\_/___\ "That which does not kill us makes us stronger"
 *************

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 01:59:01 -0300
Subject: Re: A/C Conversion 

In a message dated 96-05-02 22:07:51 EDT, you write:

>>Um, a convertible _what_? You didn't mention...
>
>Sorry, '72 C/S
[snip]
>Was planning on the springs.  That will most likely be part of the disc
brake
>conversion, when it gets done.  Sway bar?  Didn't think about that.
[snip]
>Already replaced the dummy vent in the center of the dash with an A/C vent.
> Have everything else except the drivers vent & duct.  Even have the two
>piece lower dash panel to fit around my 8-track.  Only thing I need yet are
>the kick panels (one without vents).
>
>>This is just an overview and not all the above would need to be changed
>>necessarily, but should be considered.
>
>Looks like I'm all set, if I could just work up the nerve to get the
firewall
>cut.

I remember considering going the other way with my '70 C/S, and even found a
non-air donor car (not too common). The trick, of course, is the differences
in the firewall; everything lines up differently, so it's not just a bolt-on
there. You could, of course, cut out the A/C metal from the donor firewall
and patch it into your current firewall, but that's easiest in a frame-off,
and next to impossible with an engine in there.

BTW, I just parted a '72 Vista w/air, and saved all the dash and interior
trim, including the non-vent kick panels. And I've got the 350w/air springs
and sway bar. Plus, I've got the disc-brake spindles for that conversion (and
possibly an entire disc setup; e-mail me directly if you're interested in
such parts)

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 01:58:59 -0300
Subject: Re: Food for thought...(350->403 head mods) 

In a message dated 96-05-02 21:57:53 EDT, you write:

>OK, here are some interesting questions for you guys...   Now that I have
>both my summer cars out of storage, I can't even think straight.
>
>1.  350 heads on 403:  I have been toying with the idea of putting 7a
>(subscript A) heads on my 77 403.  I purchased a set, and right now they are
>being tanked and pressure tested at a local machine shop.  I know that I
have
>to increase the size of the head bolt holes and pilot holes, and increase
the
>size of the intake valve to 2".  I will also increase my compression from
>approx. 8.0:1 to 9.0:1.   I am only running an Edelbrock Performer cam and
>would probably wind up doing some porting and polishing along with filling
>the heat riser's.   So will this change make a big difference?

Hey! That's my engine you've got there! ;^) Actually, my 7a's are going on a
'79 403, but since neither of us has solid webs... :^(

I've heard that one other mod to the 7a's will be enlarging the pushrod holes
for the 403 pushrods. There was also a stepped-pilot pin (1/2 350-sized, 1/2
403-sized) mentioned on this list before, which would keep you from having to
drill the 7a's pilot holes out (though since you've got that drill out
anyway...)

A Q. about drilling out bolt holes/pushrod holes: is there a special bit
necessary for this operation? These are just hunks of cast iron, and I'm
assuming a drill suitable for cast iron in a drill press should be able to do
the job. I'm thinking this because I'll be forking over my life savings to a
machine shop for the block and head work, and would like to do *something*
myself to save some $$$. My neighbor (a fellow car nut) has a decent drill
press that I can borrow, so I'd like to do it.

The question, then, is whether a standard drill bit is used for such an
operation, or whether a special reamer is required, since there will be no
center for the bit to grab. These are 9/16" holes anyway for the 1/2" head
bolts, so that's a pretty hefty bit, and I'd have to buy one anyway since my
collection only goes up to 1/2", so I may as well get the right tool. Then
drilling it out simply involves lining up the head based on the current hole
(I was thinking of using a 1/2" dowel or drill bit in the chuck to use as a
pilot for positioning the head on the table), clamping it down and drilling.
These bolt holes are 90 deg. from the head surface, right?

The pilot pin holes are blind, and on the deck surface, so clamping and
drilling would be a bit trickier, but not impossible. I may just go with the
combo pins. Any advice?

Furthermore, aside from the high cost, there are the machine cost associated
with going to adjustable roller rockers (another engine, not on the 403).
This is just drilling and tapping out the 3/8" holes to 7/16", right? Would
the machine shop just use a drill press like I could? I know that tapping
cast iron requires the right tap, but the press could be used to line that up
as well, right? There is some milling of the rocker pad in this, though, that
would be necessary, right?

Has anyone installed these "real" adjustable roller rockers? and been happy
with them?

------------------------------

From: jrjet@whidbey.net (Dot & Tim McChesney)
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 02:29:53 -0300
Subject: Its here/T-shirt 

HI BRYCE,

Got the shirt today, looks great and fits good too.  Might order another
will let you know.  The wife thinks she wants one to match her high lander
shirt she got from their list. THANKS AGAIN!

TIM 71 cutlass Convert

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 03:44:44 -0300
Subject: Repeated Postings! 

To all,

I have no idea why 3-10 day old messages are being re-posted after the intial
sending. They are not even resident as a file anymore in my computer, as I
delete (or save to disket) all outgoing mail weekly to save disk space and
reduce file clutter.

Wierd!

Greg K.

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 03:44:47 -0300
Subject: Re: Toro tranny 

In a message dated 96-05-02 21:15:15 EDT, you write:

> Fusick would have been considerably more.

Bob069ToroGuy,

I agree!!!! However, I only use Fusick, Kanter, Olds USA, etc, etc,...when I
can't get the parts locally (last resort), or if they (Fusick et al......)
are the only ones that have NOS if I really want it. If anything, they are
convenient and save  a lot of phone calling and otherwise running around
town. After a while, you get to know instinctively who to call and where to
go for each particular item group.

PS...buy your local favorite parts counter guy a bottle of hootch or case of
beer occasionally.........Ever since I gave my Wisconsin Auto Parts guy
(Andy) two complimentary tickets to the Indy Car Miller 200 last year, I get
express service and an undying will to locate special hard to find
parts.....(at wholesale I might add!). 

Greg

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 04:19:54 -0300
Subject: Re: Comfortron 

In a message dated 96-05-02 23:06:28 EDT, you write:

>bill came to all but $800.  Then the heater control valve went bad...

Paul,

ARRRRGGGGHHHHH! I hate to hear those kind of stories! Evidently, a little
knowledge can be a dangerous thing! 

Maybe I'll hope for a cool summer and run with the windows down!  (:  A/C in
Wisconsin is like needing a heater in Florida........rarely used!

Greg K

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 09:00:13 -0300
Subject: Re: IRC Meet Recap 

The IRC session was fun despite the tech problems with the server and the 
fact that I had never done that sort of thing before. Tom, Joe, Linda, 
Jeff, Dan and I had some fun. Hope we have a few more come along next 
time. The IRC stuff doesn't seem that hard to do, and I hope some of you 
will give it a try.

Thanks to Jeff for setting it all up.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 09:11:26 -0300
Subject: List Intro Document & FAQ Addition

Folks, I've drafted the following as a new intro message to the list that 
people will get when they subscribe, and as an addition to the FAQ. It 
tries to set some sort of general policy for the Olds list as well as 
giving new members some information they may need.

I've tried to make it as fair and reasonable as possible in terms of 
policy. But before I make it "official", I'd be interested in getting 
feedback from you as to whether you think it's either too hard or too soft.

Please email me directly if you have any comments. Thanks!

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

========

Oldsmobile Mailing List
=======================

General Information:
====================

The Oldsmobile mailing list exists for the purpose of exchanging
information and promoting discussion about Oldsmobiles of all years and
models. Discussion about all aspects of the Oldsmobile marque is
encouraged. The list is based at the Chebucto Community Net in Halifax,
Nova Scotia, Canada and operates using the "Majordomo" mailing list
manager. The list is administered by Greg Beaulieu (ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca). 


Membership Policy:
==================

The Oldsmobile list is an open list. No qualification is required to join,
nor is ownership of an Oldsmobile a prerequisite. 

The list is available in real-time and digest formats. The digest is
produced daily and is a compilation of postings since the previous digest
was produced. 


Discussion Guidelines:
======================

To post a message to the list, send email to:

oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
 
All postings should be Oldsmobile-related in some way. Net etiquette is
strongly encouraged at all times and the list is intended to be
self-managing. All postings should be relevant, concise and in good taste. 
Postings are unmoderated and therefore the list requires members to be
responsible and courteous in what they post. Personal or social
discussions, "flames", profanity, or excessively commercial posts will not
be permitted. Violations of these guidelines will result in two private
warnings to the offending party. A third violation will result in the
party being removed from the list. Any instance of overt mailbombing shall
result in immediate removal from the list. All such actions shall be
solely at the discretion of the list administrator. 

Members who disagree with the appropriateness of a posting should first
contact the other party by private email and make their views known
directly. Please use courtesy, respect and discretion in any such
discussions. Public embarassment of any member via the list is not
permitted. Remember, the Olds list exists for both informative and
entertainment purposes and is intended to be enjoyable for all. 

Follow-up discussions should only quote relevant passages of the original
posting. The daily volume of messages requires members to be responsible
in removing unnecessary text from follow-ups to efficiently use net
resources. Similarly, repetitive or "me too" postings are to be strongly
discouraged. 

Due to the nature of the list software, large individual postings cannot
be handled. Therefore members should not attempt to post graphics, sound
or image files to the list. Notice of availability of such files should
instead be posted if distribution is desired, and mailings can be made by
the originator to individuals specifically requesting the file by direct
email. 

A Frequently-Asked-Questions (FAQ) list is available. New members are
strongly encouraged to request and review the FAQ before posting. The FAQ
can be requested from David Brown (dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu) and will
soon be available via FTP and the WWW. 


Membership Management:
======================

Individuals can subscribe and unsubscribe from the Oldsmobile list
directly. All membership requests are to be sent to majordomo and not the
list itself. 

Send subscribe or unsubscribe requests to:

majordomo@ccn.cs.dal.ca

Include one of the following as the only text in the body of the message:

subscribe oldsmobile
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Members are strongly encouraged to unsubscribe from the list if their mail
will be unreachable by majordomo for any period of time, or if they are
changing internet addresses. Chronic bounced mail (i.e. mailbox full, user
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Generally several days grace will be provided unless the volume of bounces
becomes unmanageable. Please contact the list administrator
(ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca) if you require assistance. 

Welcome, and I hope you find this forum to be both entertaining and
informative. Enjoy! 

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 09:27:36 -0300
Subject: It's ALIVE!

Well, about 7 pm yesterday, the paint & gasket goo began burning off the race
car's 425.... at long last.  This time for sure.

JM-28-29 camshaft, roller timing set, Toronado UHC pistons, shaved heads for
about 10.6:1 compression. Trying a Holley spread-bore double pumper carb,
because the 3310 they got for a replacement for the old 3310 was, well, no
better. Square bore, single pump, vacuum secondaries, etc.

I converted the dist'r vac. advance unit to a knob with which one can make
minor timing adjustments w/o loosening the dist'r itself. Safety chain on the
motor, finally, and a real shift lite [not the in-tach thingy] and a safety
switch that won't let the starter energize except in Park. Had to use a relay
for that... Brother suggested simply grounding the MSD's line, like the oil
pressure safety switch does, which would allow cranking but not starting in any
gear, but I figured that the judges would disallow that, went the best route.

It is indeed a sweet feeling to create such a beast, and have it work out. Even
have 'mufflers' [cherry bombs] on the headers for limited street use.... During
the cam break-in, tho, it seemes the radiator FAN made the most noise. Now, new
front wheel bearings & we're all set... Took one out to inspect it because I
noticed the front wheels were sloppy. washed it in kerosene, looked sorta OK,
thought I saw spots on the roller surfaces. Air-dried it in a rag- oh, many
flakes of shiny metal! -History-
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: Susan Pitts <stp8n@virginia.edu>
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 10:00:30 -0300 
Subject: Re: '70 olds question

>>I own a '70 olds convertible with the high output engine, bench seats, and
>>air conditioning which is unusual for this car. 
>
>>It's gold with a black top and seems to have been manufactured to endure
the slow
>>pagent speeds.
>
>How so? Low ratio gears and a heavy-duty cooling system? Reinforced boot
>for people to sit on?  :-)

Yes, the gears do seem to be low ratio.  Why not have the bucket seats and
sportier rims among other things on this?  That's what seems most unusual to
me.  The rims are pretty plain.  For our wedding, we pulled the 15" rims off
the '87 442 and put them on my car, looked great.  Would love to find some
14" ones for it!  I plan on keeping this car and doing the same thing my
father did, hand it to the next generation when they turn 17!  Had new
springs done this past year and it really made a difference, but fill up the
gas tank and the back end still sinks a little.  Talk about a gas guzzler!!
Susan Pitts
University of Virginia School of Law

'70 Cutlass Supreme Convertible - "RGTP DAY"
'87 442

------------------------------

From: Susan Pitts <stp8n@virginia.edu>
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 10:07:24 -0300 
Subject: Re: Here she is... Miss America

>Miss America Oldsmobile convertibles where a common sight in my home town in
>Southeastern PA from what I understand.  

I'm really glad to hear a confirmation on this story.  Now where can I get
this columnist's address to write to him.  My '70 is in good condition,
needs a timing chain (according to my husband)- 132,000 miles on it, a bit
of a tune-up, maybe alignment (hasn't been the same since I went on a
Virginia back road to a blackberry farm - but the blackberries were great!),
rust removal and paint job and it'd be almost perfect.  I have replaced the
radio with a better system...couldn't help it.  My love for music made me.
(Did get speakers to sit in rear seat rather than permanently installed.)
My mother had some work done on the car while I was away at college...see it
was Dad's car and they are divorced, so it was done more to aggrevate
him...unfortunately, she has no clue as to what to do, guy did some minor
engine work, put in door speakers (AARRGGHH) and ended up putting the emblem
on upside down after he painted it.  Great mechanic Mom said.  She tried to
sell it but I couldn't let it go for the song she was asking, car means more
to me than that!  Besides taxes are pretty cheap and heck it's the only car
that seems to pass inspection on a regular basis! 
Susan Pitts
University of Virginia School of Law

'70 Cutlass Supreme Convertible - "RGTP DAY"
'87 442

------------------------------

From: Willie Fruean <aceface@ohana.com>
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 10:50:06 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds

I think I just ereased the whole letter I just typed! I will do it again! 
I havb a '57 super 88 and I'm having a severe vapor lock problem. I can 
only drive my car a few miles before it stalls. I can see through the 
inline fuel filter that there is barely any gas trickling through it. 
When I turn the car off, or it dies, I can still see bubbles trickling 
though the empty filter! When the car is cooled off, I can start it up 
right away and the filter fills up all the way again. It get's hot and so 
on... What can I do? Has this ever happened to anyone? How can I fix it? 
I don't know where exactly the fuel is vaporizing? The lines are good. I 
just replaced them and they are in a good place. Can it be my fuel pump? 
My theory is that my fuel pump has a glass resivour on the bottom that 
hold quite a bit of gas. It seemed pretty hot when I touched it. I think 
the gas is sitting in that resivour and heating up. That is where I think 
it is vaporiziong. Don't other fuel pumps just pump fuel strait through 
and not hold it in the fuel pump? This is why I think I am having 
problems. Please somebody correct me if I'm wrong? If this is where it is 
vaporizing, what can I do? Does anyone have a fuel pump like this. It has 
a glass bowl on the bottom? Any suggestions you can make will be greatly 
appriciated! Thanks!


Willie

------------------------------

From: Scott Robert Kietzmann <srobert@csd.uwm.edu>
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 12:11:53 -0300
Subject: Subscribe Oldsmobile

subscribe oldsmobile

------------------------------

From: "Meyer I. Stolberg" <mas@cci.com>
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 19:05:09 -0300
Subject: Re: Gas Money

Mike:

> What hole do you think we climbed out of?  No Ch*vy S truck has this
> ability for economy.  If anyone believes this, I have a nice bridge
> you could buy.....
>
	What we have here is a very naive college aged student.  He may truly

believe he can go downhill in neutral and get 45-50 mpg.

	He also said he could do 6.9 secs in 0-60 mph.  He may have meant kmph

which is 0-36 mph in 6.9 sec.  I recall Car & Driver saying it did around 9.5

secs in the 0-60.

	The 4.3L engine was concocted by taking a 350 cid engine and slicing

two cyclinders off --> 350 cid * 6/8 = 262.5 cid = 4302 cc.  As we know, the

venerable small block V-8 was built for power, not speed.

	I'll e-mail you when I get home.

	Meyer

------------------------------

From: Paul Elosge <elosge@eco.twg.com>
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 13:44:49 -0300
Subject: RE: Here she is... Miss America

Regarding Miss America Oldsmobile convertibles...

When I was a kid, living in the Mt Airy neighborhood in Philadelphia,
we had a Miss Pennsylvania living at the end of our block, with her
Oldsmobile convertible. I don't remember what model, 98 or 88. I think
the year was 1966. The convertible eventually disappeared, but the family
then got a (1967?) Toronado as a permanent car.

Being kids, we didn't appreciate the finer things in life. Miss
Pennsylvania's talent was opera singing... we used to stand outside
their house and screech along with her when she was practicing,
the run away when she noticed us.

- - Paul Elosge (elosge@eco.twg.com)

------------------------------

From: MIKE COCCAGNA <mikec@pop.kis.net>
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 14:32:53 -0300
Subject: Thanks for the Light Bulb stuff

Was very entertaining.  Thanks.  Now it's circulating about the office!

Should I torment him with a direct mail saying I've seen over 40 mpg 
while going south in gear without drafting?  (just kidding)

Have a good one.

Mike

------------------------------

From: bdbrumm@ix.netcom.com (Bruce D. Brumm )
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 13:34:48 -0300
Subject: 307 Cruise Info (WAS Re: G-Body Tach)

Somebody wrote...

> >2.  While I do have working cruise, it's apparently a bit different; 
servo
> >must be located elsewhere (still not sure where, I thought it was this
> >thing mounted off the front top of the engine, but now I'm not sure; 
anyone?)
>
> I think I saw an '86 that had the servo (the thing that connects to the
> carb linkage, you mean, right?) on the left (driver's side) wheel well
> forward of the washer fluid reservoir, with a looping Bowden cable that
> curved around to the carb linkage. Not an aftermarket job; the wheel
> well housing had molded pedestals for it to bolt on to.

Assuming 307-V8:

Cruise servo is located on front of engine, to the right of the carb a
bit (on my '84 and '86).

A bit of history on the G-bodies:
   '81 - '83:  Cruise transducer/drive located on driver's side wheel
               well with cables, etc. as described by writer above.
               This system, to my knowledge, is non-computer
               (CCC) controlled.

   '84 - '88:  No cruse transducer.  Speed input is received from
               VSS (vehicle speed sensor) which mounts on the back of
               the spedometer.  It is photoelectric.  Cruise computer
               is located (to my recollection) above gas pedal.  Wiring
               (through harness) to vacuum ("servo") motor mounted as
               stated at front top of engine with linkage to carb
               throttle lever.

Ergo, the '86 with the transducer/drive may well have been added by an
owner at a later date.  The '81-'83 system would be much easier to
integrate than the electronic one found in the '84 and newer models.

P.S.  Mounting pedestals are present but unused on my '84 & '86
- --

Bruce D. Brumm (bdbrumm@ix.netcom.com)
Network & Systems Administrator
LDM Technologies, Inc.
Troy, MI

'84 Cutlass Supreme 307-Y
'86 Cutlass Salon 307-Y

------------------------------

From: MIKE COCCAGNA <mikec@pop.kis.net>
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 15:51:45 -0300
Subject: Sorry about the last post....

Due to mousal malfunction, the last post should not have gone to the 
group.  Sorry.


Mike

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #165
********************************

