
oldsmobile-digest          Wednesday, 8 May 1996       Volume 01 : Number 170


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 23:16:59 -0300
Subject: Automobile Humour

Automobile Acronyms

AUDI
Accelerates Under Demonic Influence
Always Unsafe Designs Implemented

BMW
Beautiful Mechanical Wonder
Big Money Works
Bought My Wife
Brutal Money Waster

BUICK
Big Ugly Indestructible Car Killer

CHEVROLET
Can Hear Every Valve Rap On Long Extended Trips
Cheap, Hardly Efficient, Virtually Runs On Luck Every Time

DODGE
Damn Old Dirty Gas Eater
Drips Oil, Drops Grease Everywhere

FIAT
Failure in Italian Automotive Technology
Fix It All the Time
Fix It Again, Tony!

FORD
First On Recall Day
F****** Old Rebuilt Dodge
First On Rust and Deterioration
Fix or Repair Daily
Found On Road, Dead
Fault Of R&D
Fast Only Rolling Downhill
Features O.J. and Ron's DNA
backwards ---> Driver Returns On Foot

G.M.
General Maintenance

G.M.C.
Garage Man's Companion
Got a Mechanic Coming?

HONDA
Had One Never Did Again

HYUNDAI
Hope You Understand Nothing's Drivable And Inexpensive...

MAZDA
Most Always Zipping Dangerously Along

OLDSMOBILE
Old Ladies Driving Slowly Make Others Behind Infuriatingly Late Every day
Overpriced, Leisurely Driven Sedan Made Of Buick's Irregular Leftover 
Equipment

SAAB
Send Another Automobile Back
Swedish Automobiles Always Breakdown

TOYOTA
Too Often Yankees Overprice This Auto

VW
Virtually Worthless

NISSAN
Now In Stupid Shape, Always Nasty


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Michael R. Hall                            Ortonville, Michigan
E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com
Owner: 1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
Owner: 1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...
Owner: 1994 GMC Sonoma Club Coupe SLS Pickup.
         Brought to you by a Apple Power Macintosh 7100/80
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

------------------------------

From: Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 23:16:54 -0300
Subject: A really WILD ride home...

I had the most bizarre ride of my life tonight on my way home from work.

Episode #1

Troy, Michigan.
Northbound on Rochester Road just South of I-75 Interchange, RH lane.
5:30 PM

I am listening to David Neumann on WXYT Talk Radio (1270 AM), stuck in 
traffic with my driver side window partly down. I hear, suddenly, 
maniacal shrieking from behind me. I look out my driver side window to 
the rear of my truck and see a bearded young man in his late 20's 
behaving in the most peculiar fashion. He is making audible sounds that 
is something between a laugh, a scream and a seizure. He catches my eye 
and starts swearing at me...

I, in my typical fashion, look back at him and give him the bird and turn 
back around in my seat. He then pulls up next to me and is in this 
continual bombardment of swearing, spitting and general mayhem.

Please keep in mind that I have not said one word to this freak...nor do 
I thorough the entire incident.

He pulls up further, he is in the passenger side of the car, he gets out 
of the car, taunting me to get out of the car and brawl right there in 
the middle of 4 lanes of stalled traffic. It's funny but I wasn't mad at 
all, I put my window up, locked my doors and started to blow him kisses!

If he wasn't mad before, I think he was really pissed off then.

I was having a grand old time in the truck, blowing kisses as fast as I 
could. He got out of the car three separate times, threw his Coke all 
over my truck and came dangerously close to ramming me with their car (at 
about 5 MPH).

He turned off and I didn't see them again (Thank God). Then it dawned on 
me. This guy, obviously strung out on copious quantities of some illicit 
drug, could have been much more dangerous. He could have had a gun in the 
car and proceeded to shoot my body parts all over the insides of my 
truck. Asta LaVista, Baby! I could have got out of my truck and brawled 
with this clown in the middle of the street, getting knifed or worse...

What did I learn?
I need to refrain from "egging on" potential nut cases as it could have 
escalated into something lethal and my son/wife doesn't need a dead 
daddy/husband. I also need to buy some extra strength hot pepper spray. A 
small lead filled end of a pool stick would also be good security for 
those times that you pray that you never have to use it.

Episode #2

Ortonville, Michigan.
Northbound on M-15 just North of Glass Road
6:15 PM

There is a car on the RH side of the street pulling out of a business. 
The car stops then abruptly proceeds into the road as if to make a RH 
turn onto M-15 southbound. This car hits the car in front of me going  
northbound, the same direction I am traveling. The car in front of me 
shears off the front clip of the car that just turned into her. Her car 
"FLIES" in midair and "LANDS" on its roof. I come to a quick stop and 
walk immediately to the woman who is upside down in her car. Blood is 
dripping from about four to five unknown areas and is forming on the 
headliner under her head in serious quantities. She is coherent, not 
saying much, I am asking questions like; "Do you feel your hands?, Do you 
feel your feet?, Everything will be allright, we will have you out of 
there as quickly as possible" just talking till the fire and ambulance 
crews arrived on the scene. Jaws of life were used, made my report and 
off to home without further incident. Before I left, a shop owner who 
knew the guy who pulled out in front of the woman tells me that the guy 
only has one eye. I snap at him, "If he has one eye, he shouldn't be 
driving!" He goes off mumbling something and I think here is yet another 
example where driving is considered a right instead of a privilige.

I don't want any more days like this!

That could have been me if I had been just a little bit quicker 
tonight......


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Michael R. Hall                            Ortonville, Michigan
E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com
Owner: 1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
Owner: 1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...
Owner: 1994 GMC Sonoma Club Coupe SLS Pickup.
         Brought to you by a Apple Power Macintosh 7100/80
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

------------------------------

From: Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 23:17:34 -0300
Subject: Automobile Humour 2

"New FORD Slogans"

As presented on the April 29th, 1996 broadcast of LATE SHOW with DAVID 
LETTERMAN:

10. Where there's smoke, there's a FORD.
 9. Have you driven a FORD to the fire station lately?
 8. Forget Chevy -- we've got the real Blazer!
 7. Available in original or extra crispy.
 6. Now every Bronco is as exciting as O.J.'s.
 5. FORD, the UnaBomber of the highways.
 4. Quality is Job One, putting out the fire is Job Two...
 3. Like a rock -- a rock of hot, molten lava.
 2. Aren't you tired of cops who stop you for speeding and ask, "Where's 
the fire?".
 1. Click...VRoom...KABOOM!!!


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Michael R. Hall                            Ortonville, Michigan
E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com
Owner: 1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
Owner: 1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...
Owner: 1994 GMC Sonoma Club Coupe SLS Pickup.
         Brought to you by a Apple Power Macintosh 7100/80
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

------------------------------

From: Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 23:29:45 -0300
Subject: Re: Windage Tray

>P.S. Just ordered the new Fuel Injection unit from Dick Miller


Oooooo, you evil, evil man!

I am tremendously jealous, please let us know how well it fits, works and 
gets you down the track...


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Michael R. Hall                            Ortonville, Michigan
E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com
Owner: 1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
Owner: 1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...
Owner: 1994 GMC Sonoma Club Coupe SLS Pickup.
         Brought to you by a Apple Power Macintosh 7100/80
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

------------------------------

From: glenn connors <gpc442@buffnet.net>
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 17:45:26 -0300
Subject: Inner Fender/Core Support Paint

Andrew Green I think was looking for core support and inner fender paint.  I
have used Rustoleum's Satin Black with good results.  Originally I tried
their semi-gloss but it was too shiny.  Try some in an inconspicuous area
first, you might like it.

Glenn
'69 4-4-2
  

    4      4      22222
   44     44          2
  4 4    4 4        22
 44444  44444     22
    4     4      22222

------------------------------

From: ngomez@iadfw.net (Nick Gomez)
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 21:50:05 -0300
Subject: Filters 

Got ready to change my oil today, went down to the local auto parts store.
Got a case of Castrol GTX 10W-30 and went to look for an oil filter. The
little Fram book didn't list my automobile of choice. I found a AC Delco
PF24 filter that fits 'Buick, Cad, Olds, Pont V8s from 1960-1980.' Is this
okay? I can't quite see the current filter without jacking the car up.
Another question, I have to jack up the car to get to the drain plug. Will
the oil drain okay?

If any of you all have numbers for oil filters that would fit my engine,
please give them up! =) An air filter number would be great too, the
current one I have is really small. Thanks for helping this automotive
newbie! Laterz...
BeaTniK

     ------------------------------------------------------------------
     1965 Oldsmobile 98 Town Sedan   TIP # 1048   I Trade Live Concerts
     Always Buying Nirvana Items   MiSTie # 53344       Keep On Skankin
     ------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 22:49:44 -0300
Subject: Hosed by the machine shop... 

Last week I took my newly aquired 7a heads to the machine shop to have them
hot tanked and pressure tested.  I figured it would save me alot of time
cleaning them and alot of grief if they were cracked and I didn't know it.
 Well today I picked them up, and found out that they had surfaced them
because they weren't straight.  Great!, how  much did they take off and is it
the same on both sides???  All for a grand total of $110!  So it wound up
that they didn't charge me to hot tank them, but $60 to pressure test them
and $50 to surface them.  And they are still pretty dirty to top it off!  So
I bit my tongue (for other reasons) and drove on...  But the last thing you
should do to a head is surface them, especially if you plan on porting them.
 What happens if the collar of the grinder nicks the surface, etc.   Oh
well...  Not to mention that I DID NOT tell them to do that.

Moral of the story:  Make sure you tell the machine shop EXACTLY what to do
and what not to do!  Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 22:49:36 -0300
Subject: G-Body hedder help.. 

I can sympathize with you guys about putting Hedman Hedders on a small block
in a G-body frame.  One word describes it all.... JOY!   SInce I have
Hedman's on my '7, here are some tips I learned over the past five years:

The easiest way to put them on is with the engine in the car, minus the
starter and the oil filter adapter.  On the pass side, the hedder will slide
right up from underneath with no problems.  You can then install the oil
filter housing.  The driver side is more tricky.  Both the starter and the
hedder have to be put up from underneath together.  (Since I sandblast and
paint my hedders every year, I am getting better at this...)  I usually wrap
the hedder in an old sheet very tightly, and then wrap masking tape around it
in a few spots.  The sheet will prevent the paint on the hedder from being
scratched.  Then from underneath the car, I set the starter (with the wires
connect to it) on the hedder (where it will sit when everything is bolted to
the engine) and slowly lift the two together up into place.  It is awkward
because of the weight of the starter, but it works..  Then tear the old sheet
off making sure you get it all.  This is a real pain, but it prevents the
hedder from being scratched and the paint lasts longer.  There is one thing
to keep in mind though:  I did not run into this problem until I rebuilt the
front end and had the car aligned.  The upper A arm on the driver side can
sometimes make this install difficult.  Especially if you have alot of shims.
 I realized this after I brought the car home, the hedder was dented from
either the mechanic reefing on it with a hammer, or the rocking of the motor.
 But go figure...  (I took a grinder to mine and it helped a little).  This
is the number one reason I have not had them Jet Hot or HPC coated yet.
 Eventually I am going to do over a new frame and use tubular upper A-arms
which will alleviate this problem.

I hope this helped you out.  Please drop me a line with any further
questions.  But keep in mind:  I live by this statement:

"THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A 'BOLT ON' PART!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 18:29:24 -0300
Subject: Re: Stiff Automatic Gear Selector

Toronado66@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Subj:   Stiff Automatic Gear Selector
> Date:   05/06/96
> To:     oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
> 
> RE-POST
> 
> To all Olds owners with automatics:
> 
> Has anyone ever experienced a real stiff gear selector?  So stiff, in fact,
>
> 
> I have a 1967 Toronado that I haven't driven since 1984 and I am just getting it on the road again.  The brakes have been done and I am using 
the car, but I haven't noticed this.  It must be northern salt related. 
 If sitting is the problem, I should have experienced something like it 
after 12 years in storage outside. 

Bill

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 18:32:14 -0300
Subject: Re: Methods of painting headers

Chris Urban wrote:
> 
> Try Eastwood company's cast iron exghaust paint. It is real tough, never
> burns off, but on the minus side it is a real flat paint.
> 
> I second the Eastwood stuff.  I have a friend that has had his cast iron exhaust parts painted for at least 5 years, been drive several 
thousand miles and still has show quality looks.

Bill Culp

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 00:01:31 -0300
Subject: Re: Automobile Humour

At 11:16 PM 5/7/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Automobile Acronyms
>
PONTIAC

Poor Old Ni**er Thinks Its A Cadillac
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

 "I was put on this earth to accomplish a certain number of things;
    right now I'm so far behind, I'll never die"  --Calvin

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 00:08:22 -0300
Subject: Re: Filters

At 09:50 PM 5/7/96 -0300, you wrote:
Fram book didn't list my automobile of choice. I found a AC Delco
>PF24 filter that fits 'Buick, Cad, Olds, Pont V8s from 1960-1980.' Is this
>okay? 

FRAM PH25 or AC Declo PF24 should work for the oil filter.  No help for your
air filter, though.  Ask the folks at the parts counter at your local auto
parts store.
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

 "I was put on this earth to accomplish a certain number of things;
    right now I'm so far behind, I'll never die"  --Calvin

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 00:22:09 -0300
Subject: '77 Delta 88 Pace Car

I have just discovered that a friend of my Dad's owns a 1977 Delta 88 Pace Car.
Don't know if any of this stuff is true or not, it's just what he told me,
so correct me if I'm wrong.  I'm thinking of making him an offer for this
car (he hasn't said anything about it being for sale, just thought I'd try).  

He tells me it's one of about 800 made.  He says it's got an aluminum (??)
hood and trunk lid.  Small block 403, 4bbl carb, 3 spd auto (TH350 or 400?).
He bought it new in 1977, and it has 41,000 original miles.  Is this car
worth anything?  If so, how much?  How much should I offer him for it?

It looks pretty cool...got new paint 5 years ago (original colors), still
looks good.  Haven't heard it run, it's not garage kept (he keeps his wife's
Corve**e in there...what a shame!)  Didn't inspect the body very closely,
but it looks very straight, with a little cancer at the door bottoms.

Any advice/comments are welcome!!

Thanks!
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

 "I was put on this earth to accomplish a certain number of things;
    right now I'm so far behind, I'll never die"  --Calvin

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 00:43:31 -0300
Subject: Re: Filters 

In a message dated 96-05-07 23:22:58 EDT, you write:

>FRAM PH25 or AC Declo PF24 should work for the oil filter.  No help for your
>air filter, though.  Ask the folks at the parts counter at your local auto
>parts store.

Sounds good to me.

If you are worring about getting ALL the old oil out, heres what I do.

After the car is jacked up, (floor jack preferably) and you are draining the
oil......let the car down to a level plane. (be careful not to crunch the oil
collecting device you are using) This way the oil that sits back in the pan
can come out! I like to let her drain for about 15 minutes or so. Make sure
oil is hot (warm at least)...run it around the block a few times or do it
after returning from a run.

I'm sure evryone has their own way of doing it...this would be just one of
many ways. I get good results with this method! Anybody else have thoughts on
this?

Greg

------------------------------

From: Bob Valentine <ravalent@liii.com>
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 01:36:57 -0300
Subject: Re: Stiff Automatic Gear Selector

> >Has anyone ever experienced a real stiff gear selector?  So stiff, in fact,
> >you REALLY have to get on the selector arm to go from park to drive. This

     I've seen that one.   Also have had problems with the universals in 
the steering linkage freezing up after a long winter's storage here on 
<rather moist> Long Island.   

    Found that giving them a good slathering of grease prior to storage 
helps wonders.   

- --> Bob

------------------------------

From: David1756@aol.com
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 01:42:46 -0300
Subject: Re: 1968 Cutlass For Sale, Milwaukee 

Please send more info on your Cutlass.  I am about to move to Chicago so
could make a visit to Milwaukee fairly easily in next few weeks to see your
car.  But what is it?  Please send more details.  Mainly interested in
equipment, condition, mileage, how is the body, is it licensable, reliable
enough to drive to work in the summer, etc?

Thanks - David Wilk

------------------------------

From: Bob Valentine <ravalent@liii.com>
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 01:48:45 -0300
Subject: Re: '77 Delta 88 Pace Car

On Sun, 5 May 1996, David Paulison wrote:

> I have just discovered that a friend of my Dad's owns a 1977 Delta 88 Pace Car.
                                                          ^^^^
> He tells me it's one of about 800 made.  He says it's got an aluminum (??)
> hood and trunk lid.  Small block 403, 4bbl carb, 3 spd auto (TH350 or 400?).
                                   ^^^
  Run, do not walk, and pull the oil pan off this thing so we can 
set this "does the '77 403 have solid main webs?" argument 
straight once and for all!  
          
  Then take it for a test drive and do all the normal things.   ;^>

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                    --> ravalent@liii.com  <--
        "Experience varies directly with equipment ruined"

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 01:49:06 -0300
Subject: Flippin' Dial, RI Olds, trusty 403's, etc. 

While I was cleaning out my space in the garage to make moving a bit easier,
I came across my '72 flippin' dial radio, and finally tested it out. While it
didn't get much of a station without any antenna (I had it hooked up with a
jumper wire and some speaker wire in the engine compartment), it did indeed
work, so anyone out there who was interested can make me an offer.

Moved some stuff up to the parents' house, picked up some parts I've gotten
calls on, and went up to Providence to do the "apartment-hunting thang".
While driving the small side streets around the college, what do I come
across but a super-clean Crest-green '67 Cutlass, slammed to the ground, with
moon disks and wide-whites! 
Can't stop, since I'm on a mission, but on a later drive-by I see a '72 Vista
Cruiser in the driveway- an Olds man in the new neighborhood! Well, we're
still on a mission, so we don't stop. 

On the third pass by, the guy is outside getting into the toothpaste-car, so
I stop and compliment his fine taste in automobiles. I also notice that the
car is not a Cutlass, but an 88 (Starfire, perhaps?); they looked *really*
similar that year! While he's telling me the Vista Cruiser is for sale
(steady, Bob, steady), what pulls up but the guy's friend in a '71 Cutlass
Supreme with total custom grill/headlight covers, low-stance, dark-green
paint with bold graphics, and 5-spoke Z-28 rims (which I don't personally
like, but hey, putting them on an Olds is a good place to start). They wonder
aloud what a guy with a '69 Toro and '70 SX is doing in a B**ck Electra;
telling them it is 403-powered and about to receive a 410 small-block makes
everything right in the world with them.

Seems like I'm going to be likin' Providence!

Onto the topic of engine rebuilds: I'm about to send my parts to a machine
shop and order the rebuild kit, as my present 403 burns lots-O-oil (yeah, and
I want MORE power...). The thing is, my rebuild has to be at least as
reliable as this beastie installed by the factory, which at 220,000 miles is
able to make four-hour trips without missing a beat (as long as I replace the
oil that is burnt). I'm now quite wary about turning $2000 of metal and
machine work into a lump of blued steel, but I guess I'm trudging on ahead
anyhow.

I'm a bit leary of choosing a machine shop to do my work; they're all
expensive, but many have the added qualities of being incompetent or
dishonest. And rebuilding an engine is tough enough when you *trust* your
machinist!

Anybody know of a good machinist in the Northeast?

------------------------------

From: Bob Valentine <ravalent@liii.com>
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 01:51:04 -0300
Subject: Olds 350 M/T Flywheel

Anyone got a source for the above mentioned?

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                    --> ravalent@liii.com  <--
     "Clinging Tenaciously to the Trailing Edge of Technology"

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 02:05:13 -0300
Subject: Re: Stiff Automatic Gear Selector 

In a message dated 96-05-08 00:38:53 EDT, you write:

>Found that giving them a good slathering of grease prior to storage 
>helps wonders.   
>
>

Bob,

Thanks! I will try that this fall before the long, cold Wisconsin winters!
Seems lately we have 10 months of winter and 2 months of rough sledding
around here! What ever happened to global warmimg? Never got here anyway!

Greg

------------------------------

From: rmv@ix.netcom.com (rmv)
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 02:29:45 -0300
Subject: Re: The New Guy

>5) Is there anywhere on the net (or any reference source) that can decode
>the broadcast sheet option codes?  Some are listed in the Owner's manual,
>but most aren't.
>Thanks for any help you can give.  I surfed the net and found several
>similar cars on the Olds site, along with the Olds mailing list, so I'm

Look in the Oldsmobile Parts Catalog.  They were *** printed *** until
1987.  Some Olds dealership parts departments may still have a copy.

Mike Van Auken
'79 Starfire GT

------------------------------

From: adal@earthlink.net (J.A. Limon)
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 02:44:24 -0300
Subject: 1970 Delta 88 Custom 

Is it true that the 1970 455 rocket was the last of the "high compression"
engines. Can anyone give me any interesting backround on this car?

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 09:35:18 -0300
Subject: Re: Filters 

At 09:50 PM 5/7/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Got ready to change my oil today, went down to the local auto parts store.
>Got a case of Castrol GTX 10W-30 and went to look for an oil filter. The
>little Fram book didn't list my automobile of choice. I found a AC Delco
>PF24 filter that fits 'Buick, Cad, Olds, Pont V8s from 1960-1980.' Is this
>okay? I can't quite see the current filter without jacking the car up.
>Another question, I have to jack up the car to get to the drain plug. Will
>the oil drain okay?
>
>If any of you all have numbers for oil filters that would fit my engine,
>please give them up! =) An air filter number would be great too, the
>current one I have is really small. Thanks for helping this automotive
>newbie! Laterz...
>BeaTniK
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------
>     1965 Oldsmobile 98 Town Sedan   TIP # 1048   I Trade Live Concerts
>     Always Buying Nirvana Items   MiSTie # 53344       Keep On Skankin
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------


I have both a '64 and a '75 Olds, and I have, in the past, owned
a '77 Chevy Caprice and a '79 Buick Electra, and all four vehicles
use/used the same oil filter.  

About draining the oil, I've always just put the front half of the
car on jack stands, loosened the drain plug, and drained the oil.
If 100% of the oil doesn't come out, I'm sure that 98% does, and
that's good enough.  I change the oil every three months.


************************************************
Daniel A. Gulino
Associate Professor and Graduate Chairman
Department of Chemical Engineering
Ohio University
Athens, Ohio  45701-2979
(614) 593-1495
(614) 593-0873 (fax)
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://www.ent.ohiou.edu/che/faculty/gulino.html
************************************************

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 09:53:10 -0300
Subject: Re: Automobile Humour, etc.

> From: Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>

> FIAT
> Failure in Italian Automotive Technology
> Fix It All the Time
> Fix It Again, Tony!

As a happy ex-Fiat owner (and aren't all ex-Fiat owners happy? :) ), I have
a coupla more:

Feeble Italian Attempt at Transportation
Fix It Again, Timmy! (Oft-said to me by my "friends")

And to add to the List:

PONTIAC
Poor Old Nitwit Thinks Its A Cadillac

 -- There is a "non-PC" version of the above, that I heard before the one
    posted here, from one of the more, err, "un-enlightened" members of my
    family tree :)

And on a slightly related note, my sister wanted to buy a DeLorean when
they first came out, for no other reason than the 'DMC' logo on the grille --
Her initials :)



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'88 Cadillac Brougham, a.k.a. 'Big Blue' -- Olds 307 Powered!!
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

P.S. -- The above may not be true after all... my Grandfather, the one
who 'sold' me the Brougham (at a pittance, hence the quotes), told me
over the weekend that he'd 'sell' me his '89 Fleetwood w/45K on the clock
(his other car is a '94 soon to be '96 Concours).... and my wife would rather
replace Big Blue than the Mazda -- She likes the little things on the Protege
like fuel injection and FWD :)

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 09:56:24 -0300
Subject: Re: Automobile Humour 2

> From oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca Tue May  7 21:23 EDT 1996

> "New FORD Slogans"

Oh yeah, and how could I forget:

FORD

F***ed On Raw Deal

BTW, did everyone else's Daddy drive *only* Galaxies & LTDs from the early 60s
through the late 70s?

That's why I'm a GM guy I guess :)



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'88 Cadillac Brougham, a.k.a. 'Big Blue' -- Olds 307 Powered!!
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 10:08:02 -0300
Subject: Re: Flippin' Dial, RI Olds, trusty 403's, etc.

> From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
> Moved some stuff up to the parents' house, picked up some parts I've gotten
> calls on, and went up to Providence to do the "apartment-hunting thang".
> While driving the small side streets around the college, what do I come
> across but a super-clean Crest-green '67 Cutlass, slammed to the ground, with
> moon disks and wide-whites! 

Geez, Providence is a 45 minute drive away... I gotta go see this rod!
(Mebbe he even has so me extra parts?)

> Seems like I'm going to be likin' Providence!

Yeah, but they tawk funny there (as opposed to us up here in Bahstahn :) )


> 
> Anybody know of a good machinist in the Northeast?
> 
Harry's Machine shop in Framingham, MA.  They've done a lot of stuff
for me & my friends, both motorcycle and auto.

The machine shop at Framingham Auto Parts also has a good reputation;
they've done head work, etc., for myself and others that I know.

Lindskog of Bedford MA does wonders with balancing and finishing the
internals... they even did a nice job on the ol' Fiat engine when I built it up
many moons ago (OK, 1988 :) )



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'88 Cadillac Brougham, a.k.a. 'Big Blue' -- Olds 307 Powered!!
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 10:01:15 -0300
Subject: Re: Inner Fender/Core Support Paint 

>Andrew Green I think was looking for core support and inner fender paint.  I
>have used Rustoleum's Satin Black with good results.  Originally I tried
>their semi-gloss but it was too shiny.  Try some in an inconspicuous area
>first, you might like it.

Um, 'tweren't me; I did a lame followup guessing that it might be "Engine
Black".

(To the original poster:) Tried a GM dealer yet? They do have some over the
counter stuff including paints and other products under the "house brand"
pitched in the owner's manual. Hey, has anyone actually bought GM's 
"Optikleen", the Official Correct Windshield Washer Fluid For Best Results?
I've also seen pictures of Goodwrench Motor Oil in quarts, although the
closest I've ever come to having GM oil is buying AC-Delco (not "Goodwrench")
oil at K mart.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 10:13:33 -0300
Subject: Re: Filters 

>Got ready to change my oil today, went down to the local auto parts store.
>Got a case of Castrol GTX 10W-30 and went to look for an oil filter. The
>little Fram book didn't list my automobile of choice. I found a AC Delco
>PF24 filter that fits 'Buick, Cad, Olds, Pont V8s from 1960-1980.' Is this
>okay? I can't quite see the current filter without jacking the car up.

PF24 sounds about right; it was indeed used all over the place in that era.
I think PF30 had the same filter body and was physically interchangeable,
although one had a backflow valve and the other didn't, or something like
that. PF24 would be the one of choice.

>Another question, I have to jack up the car to get to the drain plug. Will
>the oil drain okay?

Sure, if we're not talking a 45-degree angle. The plug's usually in the pan
towards the rear to account for a slight uphill angle during draining. It's
more important to have the oil heated up a bit so it's thinner and will flow
out easier, and take your time letting it drain as long as possible. (Oblig.
Sermon: When you say "jack up", you mean that you'll be using jack stands as
well, yes? Sermon mode off.)

I change my oil every 1500 miles, which for my usage turns out to be about
every other month. May be overkill but it costs me less than ten bucks each
time, and when I consider the alternative... :-)

>If any of you all have numbers for oil filters that would fit my engine,
>please give them up! =) An air filter number would be great too, the
>current one I have is really small. Thanks for helping this automotive
>newbie!

The AC-Delco books at Trak Auto are really fat and the listings go back to
the '60's, so I could take a look if I make it over there tonight. You 
didn't say which car and engine we're talking about; is it the one listed
in your .sig? Engine?

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 10:17:05 -0300
Subject: Re: '77 Delta 88 Pace Car 

>I have just discovered that a friend of my Dad's owns a 1977 Delta 88 Pace Car.
>Don't know if any of this stuff is true or not, it's just what he told me,
>so correct me if I'm wrong.  I'm thinking of making him an offer for this
>car (he hasn't said anything about it being for sale, just thought I'd try).  

Funny you should mention that; my latest issue of "Car Collector" arrived
yesterday and this morning I was reading a feature article on Indy pace cars
over my Cheerios. There's a photo of the '77 Delta pace car and a paragraph
or two of details, along with similar brief details on each year's car from
about the mid-'60's on up. (My, what a lot of Oldsmobiles there are.) The
production figures for replicas were given for some years. I'll try to
remember to follow up on this when I get home this evening and will post
further tomorrow.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: <mikec@pop.kis.net>
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 11:57:26 -0300 
Subject: [none]

	(Linux Smail3.1.29.1 #57)  
	id m0uHAfb-0003CgC; Wed, 8 May 96 10:56 EDT
Message-Id: <m0uHAfb-0003CgC@oz.kis.net>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <mikec@oz.kis.net>
From: "MIKE COCCAGNA" <mikec@pop.kis.net>
To: oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 11:00:05 -0500
Subject: Re: The New Guy
Priority: normal
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.30)

> >5) Is there anywhere on the net (or any reference source) that can
> >decode the broadcast sheet option codes?  Some are listed in the
> >Owner's manual, but most aren't. Thanks for any help you can give. 
> 
> Look in the Oldsmobile Parts Catalog.  They were *** printed ***
> until 1987.  Some Olds dealership parts departments may still have a
> copy.

Or you could try a service manual.  Mine lists most of the option 
codes (I had a few unlisted ones, though).  This was applicable for 
the '91 Calais.

Mike
'91 W-40 Quad442

------------------------------

From: clark@sh28.dseg.ti.com (Pat Clark 952-3776)
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 11:59:21 -0300
Subject: Aftermarket Air Cleaners

Question for you guys that are running aftermarket air cleaners or later model
air cleaners to clear your HEI retrofit. What do you do with the PCV hoses that
formerly went to your air cleaner? My 69 400 has PCV hoses on both valve covers,
driver's side to carb (no prob) passenger side to air cleaner (Dohhh!). I know
I need to keep this system fully functional and am looking for yall (good Texin,
bad english) to help me out. If I go the late model route, I could just drill a
new hole and put the grommets in there, but if I go the aftermaket (chrome, pie
pan type, open filter) way, what then?

Thanks Again,


          ___              ___        _________
         /   |            /   |      /         \
        /    |           /    |     |   ___    |
       /     |          /     |     |__|   |   |
      /      |         /      |           /   /   
     /       |        /       |          /   /   
    /   /|   |       /   /|   |         /   /
   /   /_|   |__    /   /_|   |__      /   /
  |             |  |             |    /   /
  |______     __|  |______     __|   /   /_____
         |   |            |   |     |          |      Pat Clark
         |___|            |___|     |__________|       69 442
						      400/400

   "Just your average 300+hp garage hogging, gas sucking, money pit"

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 11:21:57 -0300
Subject: Re: Aftermarket Air Cleaners 

At 11:59 AM 5/8/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Question for you guys that are running aftermarket air cleaners or later 
>model air cleaners to clear your HEI retrofit. What do you do with the 
>PCV hoses that formerly went to your air cleaner? My 69 400 has PCV hoses 
>on both valve covers, driver's side to carb (no prob)

That's the portion which draws the blowby gasses from the crankcase into
the carburetor for another attempt at burning.

>passenger side to air cleaner (Dohhh!).

That's your fresh air intake (into the crankcase). You can stick a 
free-standing one (basically just an overgrown cap with a little filter 
inside) into the hole in the rocker cover and leave it at that; all 
you're doing with this change is redirecting the intake from the side 
of the air cleaner to the open air. See how older cars do it; maybe you 
can use a breather filter cap off an older model (or an aftermarket 
chrome one).

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 05:33:21 -0300
Subject: Re: Filters 

     As far as I know, the AC PF24 and PF45 (I hope I remembered the number 
     right) are the only two AC's that fit Oldsmobiles.  The PF24 holds 
     more volume, and is my filter of choice when it'll fit.  The PF24 is 
     "short and fat" and the PF45 is "long and skinny".  I wish I could 
     find a "long and fat" filter for Oldsmobile.
     
     I know that Fram makes an HP2 filter (they're spendy, about $10) for 
     high-performance oldsmobile use, but I can't find one anywhere.  
     Mondello recommends these for best oil pressure.  Who knows how well 
     they filter, but the other HP series filters all brag about their 15 
     micron filtration on the box.  Anyone ever try one of these?  Are they 
     beneficial at all to a stock engine without a high volume and/or 
     pressure oil pump?
     
     As far as oil filter brands, my first choice is AC, second choice is 
     Napa Gold (actually a relabeled WIX).  Why, you ask?  I can't give any 
     hard evidence, just personal preference.  Besides, I can get the AC 
     filters for free through my dad (he sells industrial hardware and 
     supplies for Kar Products).

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Filters
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    5/7/96 7:13 PM


Got ready to change my oil today, went down to the local auto parts store. 
Got a case of Castrol GTX 10W-30 and went to look for an oil filter. The 
little Fram book didn't list my automobile of choice. I found a AC Delco 
PF24 filter that fits 'Buick, Cad, Olds, Pont V8s from 1960-1980.' Is this 
okay? I can't quite see the current filter without jacking the car up. 
Another question, I have to jack up the car to get to the drain plug. Will 
the oil drain okay?
     
If any of you all have numbers for oil filters that would fit my engine, 
please give them up! =) An air filter number would be great too, the 
current one I have is really small. Thanks for helping this automotive 
newbie! Laterz...
BeaTniK
     
     ------------------------------------------------------------------ 
     1965 Oldsmobile 98 Town Sedan   TIP # 1048   I Trade Live Concerts 
     Always Buying Nirvana Items   MiSTie # 53344       Keep On Skankin 
     ------------------------------------------------------------------
     
     
     

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 13:44:12 -0300
Subject: Re: Filters 

In a message dated 96-05-08 10:33:20 EDT, you write:

>(Oblig.
>Sermon: When you say "jack up", you mean that you'll be using jack stands as
>well, yes? Sermon mode off.)

Amen

Greg

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 13:56:42 -0300
Subject: Re: IRC Meet Recap  

Hi Jeff:

Just reviewed your message on the meeting.

If you have a minute I would like to be educated as to how to access the next
meeting.

I use (for the time being) America On Line.  Can I access the meeting or do I
need different software/access.

I am waiting for a promised CD from AT&T for their I-net access software.

Thanks,

Bob Handren
'67 W-30 Modified
'70 SX Convertible

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 13:56:40 -0300
Subject: Re: Methods of painting headers 

Eastwood has a "Stainless Steel" paint that I put on the exhaust manifolds of
the SX over 5 years ago and they still look great.

Never tried it on headers tho.

Bob Handren
'67 W-30 Modified
'70 SX Convertible

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 13:56:41 -0300
Subject: Re: Filters 

My '67 W-30 air cleaner uses AC A90CW filter which is next to impossible to
find.  The last one I was able to get came in a really faded AC box.  Must
have been sitting in a warehouse for years. Also a bit pricey.

So I took a chance and brought an old filter with me into the the K-Mart and
just started pulling filters out of boxes that looked close.  Believe it or
not an early 5.slow filer is an almost exact fit.

I would _NOT_ suggest the "gee it looks the same" approach for oil filters
but for air filters it worked for me.

Bob Handren
'67 W-30 Modified
'70 SX Convertible

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 13:57:18 -0300
Subject: Re: misc stuffs 

In a message dated 96-05-07 15:42:34 EDT, you write:

>They *do* make oil filter wrenches, ya know! Screwdriver, indeed!

The screwdriver method is for those times when no filter wrench or device
known to man can fit into the space left byBB in '67 chassis, Hooker headers,
frame, TH400..

Trust me, there was no other way. I've been building and wrenching Olds'
since the late 50's.  Not even the wrap around strap type would work.  The
Hooker headers I had way back when (late 60's) didn't have this problem. The
band type filter remover used then is still in my toolbox and used on the SX
which has no headers (and none planned either!). It looks like they raised
the tubes as high up into the frame as they could to reduce kissing accidents
with road surfaces.  'Course they don't care if you have filter problems.

And yes, I'm using the shorty filter.  The original headers allowed use of
the early large filter and _still_ allowed the use of the filter tool.
 Progress!?!?

Bob Handren
'67 W-30 Modified
'70 SX Convertible

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 14:35:38 -0300
Subject: Re: Inner Fender/Core Support Paint

> (To the original poster:) Tried a GM dealer yet? They do have some over the
> counter stuff including paints and other products under the "house brand"
> pitched in the owner's manual. Hey, has anyone actually bought GM's 
> "Optikleen", the Official Correct Windshield Washer Fluid For Best Results?
> I've also seen pictures of Goodwrench Motor Oil in quarts, although the
> closest I've ever come to having GM oil is buying AC-Delco (not "Goodwrench")
> oil at K mart.
> 
	I have'nt tried the dealership yet (usually a last resort) but I 
might be by there this afternoon.  I used Delco Dextron III/Mercon ATF in 
my '60, (got it at Kmart), but I don't recall seeing any Delco oil.  I 
usually use Havoline 10w-30 anyway.  I've never used any of the stuff 
they talk about in the owners manual for "best results".  I guess my 
dollar a gallon winshield washer fluid is only giving me a second-rate 
clean :)

			Scott
		1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 14:41:55 -0300
Subject: Re: IRC Meet Recap  

In a message dated 96-05-08 13:15:15 EDT, you write:

>I use (for the time being) America On Line.  Can I access the meeting or do
I
>need different software/access.
>
>

Jeff,

I'm in the same boat as Bob. From the initial posts about the meeting it
seemed like it might be a bear for us AOL'rs to log into the system you are
using from AOL. 

If it is not much of a hassle, I too, would like to sit in on a meeting
occasionally.

Greg K

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 14:46:14 -0300
Subject: Re: Hosed by the machine shop...

	*snip*
>  Well today I picked them up, and found out that they had surfaced them
> because they weren't straight.  Great!, how  much did they take off and is it
> the same on both sides???  All for a grand total of $110!  So it wound up
> that they didn't charge me to hot tank them, but $60 to pressure test them
> and $50 to surface them.  And they are still pretty dirty to top it off!  So

	Raw deal!!
> 
> Moral of the story:  Make sure you tell the machine shop EXACTLY what to do
> and what not to do!  Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com
> 
	I always tell them "Just do (insert machine work here) and if you 
have any problems CALL ME before you do anything else!!"  

	It saves a lot of headaches with this sort of thing!  And as a 
bonus, you get some sort of warning about how much more the job is 
actually going to cost as opposed to what they "thought" it would (ie. a hundred 
dollar valve job that turns into a $300 total rebuild because you have 
burned ex. valves, bad guides, etc.)
	
	Of course it can take a while longer than you planned if you have to 
play phone-tag for a couple days (actually happened to me...but thats 
another story).  The price you pay I guess...

			Scott
		1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98  

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 15:39:43 -0300
Subject: Re: 1970 Delta 88 Custom

At 02:44 AM 5/8/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Is it true that the 1970 455 rocket was the last of the "high compression"
>engines. 

Yes, the stock compression of the 1970 455 was 10.5 to 1.  In 1971, the
compression dropped to 8.5 to 1.  Quite a change!!
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

 "I was put on this earth to accomplish a certain number of things;
    right now I'm so far behind, I'll never die"  --Calvin

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 15:40:14 -0300
Subject: Re: '77 Delta 88 Pace Car

At 10:17 AM 5/8/96 -0300, you wrote:
The
>production figures for replicas were given for some years. I'll try to
>remember to follow up on this when I get home this evening and will post
>further tomorrow.
>
>Andrew C. Green           

OK, thanks.  Production figures would be nice.  He also said it has a really
low ratio rear, 2.5? or 2.4?.  Guess that's to keep the motor from winding
out while pacing the race track...
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

 "I was put on this earth to accomplish a certain number of things;
    right now I'm so far behind, I'll never die"  --Calvin

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 15:40:20 -0300
Subject: Re: misc stuffs

At 01:57 PM 5/8/96 -0300, you wrote:

>Trust me, there was no other way. I've been building and wrenching Olds'
>since the late 50's.  Not even the wrap around strap type would work.  The
>Hooker headers I had way back when (late 60's) didn't have this problem. The
>band type filter remover used then is still in my toolbox and used on the SX
>which has no headers (and none planned either!). It looks like they raised
>the tubes as high up into the frame as they could to reduce kissing accidents
>with road surfaces.  'Course they don't care if you have filter problems.


Did you try one of the "cap" type wrenches?  It fits over the end of the
filter, like a socket, and it attaches to a 3/8" drive rachet.  Good for
tight spots, 'cause you can use extensions and u-joints with your rachet.
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

 "I was put on this earth to accomplish a certain number of things;
    right now I'm so far behind, I'll never die"  --Calvin

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 16:19:02 -0300
Subject: auto-psy

Not sure if yesterday's autopsy post made it... more news for the detectives.
Any additional speculations on how to avoid another catastrophe?

   Observations:
Extreme heat buildup around the 1-2 rod journals- burned the oil, turned rods 1
thru 4 blue, main caps 1&2, and even main cap girdles on #2, #3, and to a
lesser extent, #4. Turned crank blue for about 3" from the 1-2 rod journals.
1-2 rod bearings appear to have been melted and squeezed out the oil relief
notches.  [Yet, THIS engine was able to turn enough to remove the tork
converter from the engine!]

#2I pushrod bent as though the valve refused to move, or there was valvetrain
interference. Yet, no evidence of such was found. It does appear that the #2I
rocker contacted the pedestal at one point, but NOT on the valve spring side
like one would expect from too much lift, say. No, on the pushrod side is a
tiny mark where there should not be one, as if the rocker slot end hit the
pedestal.
  [Speculation: AFTER the p'rod bending ceremony???  Almost looks like the
engine revved so high that valve float occured, or maybe the valve stuck open a
bit [but not enough to hit the piston] then when the lifter came up again, the
rocker was jiggling around out of position... Ah, if there was little or no oil
pressure there... lifter clogged with bearing bits, say, then the plunger might
have been stuck down inside...]  The rev limiter chip was 6000 RPM, but we did
not run the engine that high; only about 4000. Never even made the shift light
come on [5600 RPM].

Xst lifters & lobes are wiped away on cylinders #1,2,3,4, and 5 had started to
eat the lifter.  These are all in the vicinity of the extremely heated crank
area.
  [speculation: But, why only the xst got eaten? Perhaps the increased spring
load from the 0.060" shims that the xst springs had...]

#7I valve tip is rather gouged, as if an extreme force was required to open it.
Others appear quite fine.

No evidence of retainer-seal [guide] interference. Each one measures about
0.010-0.030" more clearance than the valve lift, except #3I, which had no
lifter/ lobe problem, and shows no sign of retainer- seal hitting. *scratches
head in puzzlement*

Coil bind can be ruled out- Installed heights were about 1.720/1.620" for outer
spring on int/xst respectively, and 1.620/1.580" for inner springs on I/E resp.
Coil bind should occur at 0.880" for the outer spring and 0.890" on the inner
springs. With a valve lift of about 0.545, we have a cushion of 0.140-0.290
before coil bind. [Hmmm... Damper coil bind? ] Besides, if that were an issue
here, there'd be more bent p'rods, more wiped lobes, and more evidence of
retainer-seal interference.

Oil filter contained no 'large' particles of metal, like .5mm or more, on
initial inspection, but the oil in it has zillions of fine bearing dust
particles [cam dust] in suspension. Oil pan contained the usual few larger
pieces of bearing, etc.

   Speculation:
Oil pump failure? Have yet to dismantle it... it'll be replaced this time.
Bearing particles clogged oil filter, and bypass could not handle the flow
required, esp. after the bearings' clearance grew rather large, leaked oil
faster. What with the 1-2 rods taking the brunt of the punishment, the evidence
leans toward simple oil starvation... beginning, where? With the oil line
blowing off...? By the time the engine was shut down, the bearings were run to
destruction, yet, not so bad that they sounded real bad or failed to hold oil
pressure upon startup... just gradually got worse & worse...
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 15:35:37 -0300
Subject: Re: '77 Delta 88 Pace Car 

>OK, thanks.  Production figures would be nice.  He also said it has a really
>low ratio rear, 2.5? or 2.4?.  Guess that's to keep the motor from winding
>out while pacing the race track...

Wellll... I wouldn't get too excited about it just yet; some of the pace
cars had little in common mechanically with the replicas sold through
dealers. Some of the Corvettes were almost completely stock, whereas some
other brands were heavily modified in order to keep up with Indy traffic
and got a lot of hardware that the replicas would never have. The Cadillac
used one year (1976?) was so modified that they wouldn't give it to Gordon
Johncock when he won the race that year; he got a replica instead. It may
turn out that the most valuable parts of this Delta 88 are the door stickers.

Anyway, details to follow tomorrow...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 17:00:22 -0300
Subject: Re: misc stuffs/oil filter 

In a message dated 96-05-08 14:56:36 EDT, you write:

>
>Did you try one of the "cap" type wrenches?  It fits over the end of the
>filter, like a socket, and it attaches to a 3/8" drive rachet.  Good for
>tight spots, 'cause you can use extensions and u-joints with your rachet.

There is _just_ enough room over the header pipes to insert the filter and
screw it on, barely.  Once installed there is maybe 3/4" - whatever the
length of the thread on the filter adapter is before gasket contact. The
filter is recessed versus the block side of the headers.  The outside side of
the filter is just about paralell to the header pipes.  Therefore no room for
any type of bottom wrench, no room to insert band type and insufficient
outside to get any turn of the filter with the strap type.  By the time you
get it tight you got no more room to turn.  I tried everything.

I have _never_ used a screwdriver to remove any oil filter before.  In fact
the distasteful suggestion came from a friend with less than savory
mechanical apptitude. Hey, I was desperate.  Here I was running a big block
with nitrous, etc and unable to get the !@#$^&)oil filter off whenever I
change the oil.  The oil was dirty and I definitely did NOT use the
screwdriver trick when the oil was hot.  Ouch!  So there is more than one
reason not to use the screwdrive technique (it sounds better that way :-)).

So all I can do is throw myself on the mercy of the 10W-30 gods and point out
I solved the problem with the filter relocation kit.  Besided, it really
impresses the lowrider CRX crowd!

Bob Handren
'67 W-30 Modified
'70 SX Convertible

------------------------------

From: "piggy" <eolson@odin.vr.cc.mn.us>
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 17:34:58 -0300
Subject: bucket seats

Can someone please tell me what the standard and optional bucket seat 
would be for a '75 Cutlass Salon?  My Salon had black vinyl reclining 
bucket seats.  I have heard of swivel seats though.  They would be 
nice but I suppose they do not recline, right?  I have also seen 
power seats but they do not recline very far.

///////////////
Eric Olson        eolson@odin.vr.cc.mn.us
'75 Cutlass Salon      
////////////////////////

------------------------------

From: "Brian Ashley" <BASHLEY@alexandria.lib.utah.edu>
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 18:05:58 -0300
Subject: RCPT: bucket seats

Confirmation of reading: your message -

    Date:     8 May 96 17:34
    To:      oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
    Subject: bucket seats

Was read at 15:05, 8 May 96.

------------------------------

From: jrjet@whidbey.net (Dot & Tim McChesney)
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 18:24:42 -0300
Subject: Re: engine found, etc. 

>Putting a Torker or similar intake on, having trouble getting a wrench on those
>bolts which are coverd by the intake runner? On the race car's deluxe motor
>with a Torker, I resorted to hex-drive cap screws, and used Bondhus ball-end
>hex key to tighten them. Saved about 1/2 hour per installation, cost a few $
>for the screws and about $15 for the ball-end drivers. Japan versions are
>cheaper, but why bother?

> Chris
I have a torker on my OLDS also used header bolts with 7/16 head , no
special tools required.

Tim McChesney 71 cutlass convert

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 13:26:06 -0300
Subject: Re: '77 Delta 88 Pace Car

David Paulison wrote:
> 
> I have just discovered that a friend of my Dad's owns a 1977 Delta 88 Pace Car.
> David:

There is one at my school here in Alabama.  It is black and silver with 
red pinstripes and ralley wheels.  That is about it.  There are no 
performance mods of any kind.  This car is visual only.  I don't know 
what the actual pace car had in it, but the replicas don't have it.

Bill Culp

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 17:29:23 -0300
Subject: Re: misc stuffs/oil filter 

>I have _never_ used a screwdriver to remove any oil filter before.

I did it _once_, on an old Pontiac with a filter that had apparently
been _tightened_ with a wrench. (No joke: the instructions on Sears
filter boxes actually told you to tighten the new filter with a wrench!)
Hated to try and twist it off with a screwdriver, because once you punch 
the hole in the side of the filter, there's no going back.

But I did, and I twisted it all different ways, but the thing was on so 
tight that all I did was manage to tear the bottom half of the filter 
off the top half. I now had a dead car sitting in the middle of my parents'
garage and both of theirs out on the street. Couldn't push the heap out
because it would roll down the garage ramp, and I'd have no way of pulling
it back uphill later. Had to fix it _there_.

Ended up unbolting the filter base from the block and taking it to the 
friendly local service station, where they used the biggest Crescent wrench
I've ever seen in my life to clamp the base of the filter and twist it off 
the block fitting. Made a _real_ painful sound. The gods smiled on me at
that point and a new base-to-block gasket was not only in stock but given
to me free, most likely out of sympathy, and I rushed home to slap it all
together again.

So I guess the moral is you can use the screwdriver technique if the
problem is clearance, but if the problem is simply that the wrench you've
got won't turn it, try a better wrench first!

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 18:51:01 -0300
Subject: Auto Humor 

Don't believe I saw this one in the list.  I've had a lot of good natured fun
with over the years.

GTO = Gone To Olds!

Ford

F***** Ove Rated Disaster

Bob Handren
'67 W-30 Modified
'70 SX Convertible

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 18:48:37 -0300
Subject: Re: misc stuffs/oil filter

At 05:29 PM 5/8/96 -0300, you wrote:

>Ended up unbolting the filter base from the block and taking it to the 
>friendly local service station, where they used the biggest Crescent wrench
>I've ever seen in my life to clamp the base of the filter and twist it off 
>the block fitting. Made a _real_ painful sound. The gods smiled on me at
>that point and a new base-to-block gasket was not only in stock but given
>to me free, most likely out of sympathy, and I rushed home to slap it all
>together again.
>
Yeah, I had to do that to my father-in-law's 65 Olds 98.  The oil had been
changed at a local service station, and the filter must have been tightened
with a wrench, because when I tried to take it off, I couldn't.  Finally
tried the
screwdriver method, and wound up twisting the oil filter in two.  Didn't
even budge the threaded base.  Finally took the whole filter base off the
block, and was able to remove the rest of the filter myself.  This was at
the time when the engine had lost a freeze plug to rust, and the engine had
overheated; I was just finishing the repairs.  Father-in-law decided to get
rid of the car (read take to the junkyard) before I could finish the
repairs.  Never did get the filter base back on.  Wish I had kept the engine
and tranny (425/400)!!
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

 "I was put on this earth to accomplish a certain number of things;
    right now I'm so far behind, I'll never die"  --Calvin

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 16:38:45 -0300
Subject: RE: auto-psy

When assembling this engine did you pay close attention to your rod side =
clearance? Do your rods have small pin holes drilled in them from the =
factory( near the cap) or did you grind oil releifs in them yourself? If =
so how large?

- ----------
From: 	Chris Brown Witt[SMTP:wittchri@pilot.msu.edu]
Sent: 	Wednesday, May 08, 1996 3:19 PM
To: 	wittchri@pilot.msu.edu; oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	auto-psy

Not sure if yesterday's autopsy post made it... more news for the =
detectives.
Any additional speculations on how to avoid another catastrophe?

   Observations:
Extreme heat buildup around the 1-2 rod journals- burned the oil, turned =
rods 1
thru 4 blue, main caps 1&2, and even main cap girdles on #2, #3, and to =
a
lesser extent, #4. Turned crank blue for about 3" from the 1-2 rod =
journals.
1-2 rod bearings appear to have been melted and squeezed out the oil =
relief
notches.  [Yet, THIS engine was able to turn enough to remove the tork
converter from the engine!]

#2I pushrod bent as though the valve refused to move, or there was =
valvetrain
interference. Yet, no evidence of such was found. It does appear that =
the #2I
rocker contacted the pedestal at one point, but NOT on the valve spring =
side
like one would expect from too much lift, say. No, on the pushrod side =
is a
tiny mark where there should not be one, as if the rocker slot end hit =
the
pedestal.
  [Speculation: AFTER the p'rod bending ceremony???  Almost looks like =
the
engine revved so high that valve float occured, or maybe the valve stuck =
open a
bit [but not enough to hit the piston] then when the lifter came up =
again, the
rocker was jiggling around out of position... Ah, if there was little or =
no oil
pressure there... lifter clogged with bearing bits, say, then the =
plunger might
have been stuck down inside...]  The rev limiter chip was 6000 RPM, but =
we did
not run the engine that high; only about 4000. Never even made the shift =
light
come on [5600 RPM].

Xst lifters & lobes are wiped away on cylinders #1,2,3,4, and 5 had =
=0A=

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 22:11:40 -0300
Subject: Re: Automobile Humour 

In a message dated 96-05-07 21:19:53 EDT, you write:

>FORD

Found On Russian Dump

>G.M.C.

Great Mountain Climber

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 22:22:30 -0300
Subject: Do I use the "C" or "E" Heads, etc.? 

All right all you experts, I need some advice.

As you may have noted, I am a do it myselfer as much as possible.  Money has
never been available in large quantities.  At this point however it is clear
I need some head work.  The engine in my '67 W-30 is a low compression 455
with Mondello/Engle 25-28 cam, Edelbrock Torker with 750 AFB, 4.10 rear, etc.
 The car would run a lot faster with a higher ratio rear but I like to drive,
sometimes 100's of miles over a weekend.  With all the added weight of a roll
bar, Crager S/S wheels, etc. it runs 13.3sec @ 103mph on the AFB.  (Holleys
suck for drivers.)  This is in front of a TH400 modified to the "B" level of
the modifications I posted a few weeks ago.  Let's ignore the nitrous for the
moment.

So, I have a set of "C" heads in my '67 now.  They are off the original 400
and have been ported by "moi".  The exhaust is opened as wide as the seat,
guide smoothed, AIR bumps gone and the floor opened some to give the exhaust
a better shot at the headers. The middle ports are not welded.  The intakes
have the bowls opened to the seat and the guides smoothed.  

I also have a sef of unmodified "E" heads off the '70 455 Toro engine which
donated the block.  This engine was treated very well by the Toro owner.
 Absolutely no sludge or buildup anywhere.  When I had the block tanked, the
machine shop said the bores were OK with only a surface prep for the rings.
Amazing, an honest machine shop and I don't live there any more. Damn!  The
point is these heads should be primo as well.  The donor Toro engine jumped a
(non-existent) timing gear tooth, bent one intake, I'm sure you have heard
the story before.  It was a shame to disassemble the Toro but I needed a core
block and the Toro wasn't mine anyway.

These "E" heads have hardened seats, right??  There seems to be some
confusion here on that. Also, Chris Witt said he had a set of NOS "E" heads
he was going to cc the chambers on.  If you posted it Chris I missed it.  Do
the "E" heads have a smaller combustion chamber?

There is a guy here in the Orlando area who runs a shop called "The Rocket
Ranch" and ports heads using a flow bench. He belongs to the local Olds club,
is well known and is reputed to do good work.

The question is, do I save the "C" heads and the porting work by installing
hardened seats, new guides, etc. or go to the "E" heads, save on the seats
(if they are actually hardened) and pay to have them ported, etc.

More questions: 

I have never port matched the intake because I was told the Edelbrock Torker
was actually designed to direct the air/fuel charge into the head and that
port matching can slow the flow (venturi effect?) and reduce cylinder
filling.  Any ideas on that one?  Frankly some of the passages appear to be
narrowed because that's where the manifold bolt has to go.  Sounds good
though.

At what compression ratio does it become critical to retard the spark when
running nitrous.  I suspect my comperssion ratio is about 8:1 (thicker head
gaskets, unshaved heads, TRW low compression forged pistons).  I've been
running BB Olds' for many years.  Even when detonation can't be heard over
the headers (and NOS is LOUD) I have been able to feel it in the "seat of the
pants".  Back when I used to run 12:1 pistons, I could feel it when the spark
was too advanced.  I have made quite a few runs on the bottle with no hint of
a detonation problem and, so far, no indication of any damage either.  If I
bump the CR to 9:1 will problems start?  I love the flexibility I now have in
burning any fuel (except when using NOS), no overheating, etc.  So, leave it
alone if it ain't broke?

How much HP does blocking the heat riser (for example with the Modello
pieces) actually add?  Again, I like the driveability.  But it is (usually)
pretty warm in Florida so how much does that modification hurt driveability
for a driver?  I've used sheet metal block-offs in the past but not the
"plugs". How good are they?

How much HP does welding the ports on the exhaust provide?  That one would
seem to have no effect on driveability.

The car is a ball to drive.  I do not campaign it on the track every weekend
but it gets driven just about every one.  It does need head work so what
would you do?

BTW - I LOVE to meet 5.slows!  It's fun.

Bob Handren
'67 W-30 Modified
'70 SX Convertible

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #170
********************************

