
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

oldsmobile-digest          Friday, 15 March 1996       Volume 01 : Number 119


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Shawn M. Twomey" <stwom@ctp.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 15:22:49 -0400
Subject: Edelbrock SB build

I thought that some of you building or thinking of building small-blocks
might be interested in checking out the Performer and Performer RPM kits
that Edelbrock makes for the 350 and its brothers.  The Edelbrock home page
is at:

http://www.edelbrock.com/

The Olds page is at:

http://www.edelbrock.com/man_olds.html

There is a Performer 350 power package graph (this package makes power from
Idle to 5500 rpm) at:

http://www.edelbrock.com/3711graph.html

This graph plots net torque vs. RPM for both a "stock" Olds 350 and the same
motor with Edlebrock's Performer intake, cam, and 1 5/8" headers.  Computing
hp from the graph using the formula   HP = Torque*RPM / 4545, it looks like
the stock motor makes 255hp@4000rpm.  The Edelbrock enhance engine runs
about 308hp@4500rpm, quite an improvement.  The next obvious question, to me
anyway, is which stock 350 did they use?  I posted a question for the techs
on the shop talk page, and they responded:

"We can't give you definite specifics for the year of the motor used in
testing other than it is a mid-'70's engine, probably from a Cutlass."

Not a very helpful reply, although I think they are usually pretty good
about giving good answers.  My major concern, however, was which heads were
used, and I guess I can safely deduce that it was the smogger #8s, although
I'd really like to know for sure.  It should also be a safe bet, then,
should it not, that building a similar engine with earlier heads-yielding a
much better CR, would help achieve significantly more than their 310hp.

Do the stock power figures (255hp@4000rpm) roughly correspond to any mid-70s
Cutlass engines anyone has experience with?  Or does this look more like an
earlier, faster motor?  Keep in mind that these are NET ratings.

Thanks,

__________________________________________________________________________
Shawn M. Twomey     |  "No!  Try NOT!  Do, or do not.  There is no try."
stwom@ctp.com       |  -Yoda
__________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 15:26:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Wiper Motors' Revenge was...Re: More Wiper Fun

>Would it be possible to just replace
>the motor (and not the whole assembly)?
>
>			Scott
>		1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98


I would think so.


************************************************
Daniel A. Gulino
Associate Professor and Graduate Chairman
Department of Chemical Engineering
Ohio University
Athens, Ohio  45701-2979
(614) 593-1495
(614) 593-0873 (fax)
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://www.ent.ohiou.edu/che/faculty/gulino.html
(or just open the window and shout!)
************************************************

------------------------------

From: "Postmaster" <POSTMSTR@ABSSW.REMNET.AB.COM>
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 15:31:13 -0400
Subject: DISTRIBUTION STATUS

WORLD.OLDSMOBI           DISTRIBUTION STATUS INFORMATION        03/14/9
 13:31:00
=======================================================================

DISTRIBUTION ID: WORLD.OLDSMOBI.2555
SUBJECT        : Edelbrock SB build
DATE  SENT     : 03/14/96        TIME SENT: 13:31:00
=======================================================================

THE STATUS OF THE ATTEMPTED DELIVERY ON YOUR MAIL IS:

SNADS STATUS  : 000F
EXPLANATION   : SNADS SYSTEM ERROR

=======================================================================

RECIPIENT      : MSMACAB.ATBARKER
LAST NAME      :
FIRST NAME     :
MIDDLE INITIAL :
NATIVE NAME    :
COUNTRY        :
ADMD           :
PRMD           :
ORGANIZATION   :
ORG UNIT 1     :
ORG UNIT 2     :
ORG UNIT 3     :
ORG UNIT 4     :
DDA            :

------------------------------

From: "Postmaster" <POSTMSTR@ABSSW.REMNET.AB.COM>
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 15:32:13 -0400
Subject: DISTRIBUTION STATUS

WORLD.OLDSMOBI           DISTRIBUTION STATUS INFORMATION        03/14/9
 13:32:00
=======================================================================

DISTRIBUTION ID: WORLD.OLDSMOBI.2563
SUBJECT        : Re: Wiper Motors. Revenge was...Re: More Wip
DATE  SENT     : 03/14/96        TIME SENT: 13:31:00
=======================================================================

THE STATUS OF THE ATTEMPTED DELIVERY ON YOUR MAIL IS:

SNADS STATUS  : 000F
EXPLANATION   : SNADS SYSTEM ERROR

=======================================================================

RECIPIENT      : MSMACAB.ATBARKER
LAST NAME      :
FIRST NAME     :
MIDDLE INITIAL :
NATIVE NAME    :
COUNTRY        :
ADMD           :
PRMD           :
ORGANIZATION   :
ORG UNIT 1     :
ORG UNIT 2     :
ORG UNIT 3     :
ORG UNIT 4     :
DDA            :

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 15:37:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Wiper Motors' Revenge was...Re: More Wiper Fun

Getting closer!

Either the brushes are gone (or .001" left) or the armature is in less than
perfect working order.  New brushes or new armature (these can be rebuilt
also).  Tapping is also the way to get a fried starter working for it's
last couple starts.

David Brown
dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu    (312) 702-9157
"Oldsmobile - powerful roadsters with big V8s"
- -----------------------
 Hey everyone!
Thanks for all the responses on my wiper problems!  I went out to try
them again last night.  I put the key in, turned it on, and the wiper
motor started spinning again!  Hmmm.  I didn't do anything to it since
the last time I tried it and it dindn't work.  Weird.
 So I sat there watching it go when it decided to quit.  AARG!
Futzed with the switch for a minute.  Nothing.  Tapped the motor with a
pair of pliers.  Whirrrrrrrr.  It started spinning again!  Grrr.  So, I
guess it's some mechanical problem with the motor itself.  It was also
making kind of a nasty thumping noise while it turned that didn't sound
good.
 Any ideas this time?  And yes, Charley the grounds are still there ;)

<snip>

   Scott
  1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: "Jeffrey C. Hunter" <jchunter@xcelco.on.ca>
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 14:46:15 -0400
Subject: Running Boards?

>
>Just out of curiosity, have you noticed all those Sascatchewan cars with
>running boards?  They don't quite work for ground effects!
>
>      Charley Buehner         "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
>      Havre, Montana          http://www.nmclites.edu/~buehner
>      "Rockit 1"              '81 Olds Cutlass 455
>      "BT UR 4D"              '70 Buick GS 455
>             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)
>
>
        Its been a long time since I have been in Saskatchewan, but know
there is an abundance of old cars there.  I remember in 1990, we drove into
Moosemin Sask., and we thought there was an antique car show in town.
        As for the running Boards?  Must say, the only running boards I
recall were on an old farmers grain truck.

Jeff Hunter
jchunter@xcelco.on.ca

------------------------------

From: William Ansell <wansell@lynx.dac.neu.edu>
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 15:46:55 -0400
Subject: Re: '83/84 H/O stuff.

I am interested in the H/O information. I have the 4 fold poster for my
84' H/o but I don't have any of the other information. Any information
you have I would greatly appreciate.
Thank you
- -Bill Ansell (84' H/O)
204 Grove st. Norwell Ma, 02061

------------------------------

From: root@mayhem.b23a.ingr.com (0000-Admin(0000))
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 15:52:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Air Cleaner

> Anyone out there need an Air Cleaner for a '66 - '67 442 (this is the
> one for automatics).
>
> Boyd
>


Boyd,

I might be interested. How does the air cleaner differ form the
stock one, other than the decal?  How much?


TomM

P.S. Do you still have the 66 4 speed pedals?

------------------------------

From: eda@dl.tc.faa.gov
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 16:17:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Intro...

> I'm sorry if I offended anyone by wanting to put a GM corp engine into my
> Cutlass.  That wasn't my intention.

Speaking for myself, I'm more offended that Olds no longer makes a 275-325 hp
350 engine...I almost bought a '93 Z28 myself, and got to see on of the Pace
Cars when I was shopping...*sharp*...but I'm getting off-topic here...

Ed Atlee			'77 Cutlass Supreme
eda@dl.tc.faa.gov		'84 Hurst/Olds
	R O C K E T	P O W E R E D ! !

------------------------------

From: eda@dl.tc.faa.gov
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 16:33:56 -0400
Subject: Re: 442 spoiler

Somewhere in the stack of Camoro Craft and Musclecar magazines, I have an
ad...check the small ads in the back...a one-piece 442 wing is available
somewhere (as opposed to OEM 3-piece), and I think the hood scoop...also
there's a company that makes a ground effects package, too, goes all the way
around the car, if I'm not mistaken...

Ed Atlee			'77 Cutlass Supreme
eda@dl.tc.faa.gov		'84 Hurst/Olds
	R O C K E T	P O W E R E D ! !

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 17:00:32 -0400
Subject: '85 Delta 88 Test Drive

Well, I finally got around to driving the '85 Delta that I mentioned last
week. It's a 2-door with about 70,000 miles. It's advertised for $3500
Canadian. First, the good news: it's absolutely rust-free and the
underside is as clean as can be, still lots of original chassis paint
there in fact. The trunk is pristine with zero rust and the spare and jack
have never been touched. The interior is perfect as well. New shocks, new
exhaust, good chrome, good tires, all four wire wheel covers.  The car
rides smoothly with no rattles, and on the highway it's very quiet. The
clock and washers even work!  :)

The middling news: it doesn't have a/c, which I find strange. It has a
307 and while it moves out smartly from a stop, once you get into the
midrange there sure isn't much power there. Flooring the accelerator on
the highway kicks it down but aside from making more noise it sure takes a
while to get moving. I'm guessing this is typical?

The bad news: the car was stolen from its previous owner and the thieves
drove it into a fence. So the right side needs some bodywork (estimated
at $800 to $1000) and the stainless trim on the lower body would have to
be replaced. A real shame since the car has the original paint right now.
Also the brakes pulsate so I guess it needs rotors, and while the motor
is quiet it sure idles rough. Maybe just a tuneup, but...?

The car could probably be had for $2800. I'm dithering... I really like
the way it looks and drives (I think it's an incredibly handsome car) but
the bodywork puts me at close to $4K, plus I would sure like one with
air. But I wonder how many Delta 88 Royale Brougham 2-doors were made in
'85? Is this a rare car? Worth an investment?

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: clark@sh28.dseg.ti.com (Pat Clark 952-3776)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 17:05:36 -0400
Subject: Year One URL


	Hey Greg,

	What was the URL for the Year One net page? Tried to find it with
Webcrawler but no luck!

	Also, didn't get a single response on my question of causes and fixes
of a rich running carb. Whats' the matter guys, my breath stink or something?
;)


          ___              ___        _________
         /   |            /   |      /         \
        /    |           /    |     |   ___    |
       /     |          /     |     |__|   |   |
      /      |         /      |           /   /
     /       |        /       |          /   /
    /   /|   |       /   /|   |         /   /
   /   /_|   |__    /   /_|   |__      /   /
  |             |  |             |    /   /
  |______     __|  |______     __|   /   /_____
         |   |            |   |     |          |      Pat Clark
         |___|            |___|     |__________|       69 442


   "Just your average 300+hp garage hogging, gas sucking, money pit"

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 17:08:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Another crank

On Thu, 14 Mar 1996, Chris Brown Witt wrote:
> Casting number 393654, with N on front counterweight.
> Unusual-looking pistons with a dish 2.540" dia. x 0.225" deep, #398661
> 1111929-4G12 distributor: 1964, or 1974? Broken anyhow, no value but info.
> VIN 38M141863
> F2 block, cast on day 275, presumably of 1968.

I find it interesting that a '68 with a late VIN like 141863 would have
an engine with a casting date of September or thereabouts. I would have
thought that the switchover to the '69 model year would have taken place
in July or August. My first guess when I read the message was that you
had found a very early production '68 350 that was cast in Sept/67, but
that VIN is a late one for certain. Any idea when typically they would
stop the line and switch to the new year? September, or sooner?

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: johnspr@ix.netcom.com (JOHN PRESTON )
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 17:08:47 -0400
Subject: Re: 307 talk

You wrote:
>
>     Did anyone read the latest PHR (April 96)?  There is an article
in
>there titled "In the eights on ten-inch tires".  Its a pretty good
article
>on this new, very competitve drag racing league.  In it, there shows a
>picture of a late model Cutlass with a cool paint job, (to bad it
wasn't in
>color) getting prepped for competion.  Within the article it lists the
many
>rules for competion.  One of the engine rules is that the engine that
you
>will race, has to be the engine that came in the car.  What I want to
know
>is what engine will this Larry guy use to race.  Considering its a
late
>model, there are only two options, the 231 V6, or the 307 V8.  If it
had the
>231 he could turn it into a GN motor and clearly pull fast times.  If
he is
>planning on using the 307, I sure want to see a feature article on how
he
>will get it in the eights.

Although it's on a dicouraging note to report this, that Cutlass in the
PHR article will almost certainly use the "corporate engine" clause in
the rules and utilize either a SB Chev of 400+" or a BB Chev of about
427" to 454".  The cost of getting an Olds to produce anything near
what can pretty easily be extracted from the Chevs would be extremely
high -------- and these guys spend plenty of $$ to get the Chevs into
the 8's.

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 17:20:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Year One URL

On Thu, 14 Mar 1996, Pat Clark 952-3776 wrote:
> 	What was the URL for the Year One net page? Tried to find it with
> Webcrawler but no luck!

I got there thru http://www.eauto.com  .... BTW, this is an amazing web
site. I spent some time browsing there again and found some more
great sites, like an engine rebuild company with an online catalog and
all kinds of auto parts chains...

I don't remember the Year One URL offhand but I know their email address
is yearone@mindspring.com

Pat, you were undeliverable most of this afternoon, BTW.


Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: JK McCall <jkmccall@QBC.Clic.Net>
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 20:32:32 -0400
Subject: Re: '85 Delta 88 Test Drive

Greg Beaulieu wrote:

> the bodywork puts me at close to $4K, plus I would sure like one with
> air. But I wonder how many Delta 88 Royale Brougham 2-doors were made in
> '85? Is this a rare car? Worth an investment?


Greg:

I've got an 82 Delta 88 Royale Brougham and it came with a full load,
even power sunroof (factory).  I really like the feel of this car and at
the moment can live with its performance.
I'm curious also to find out production numbers as the last time I was at
the dealer they kind of gave me the feeling that there are not many of
these 2 door coupe notchback specials out there...
BTW it came with air...:>

Joe

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 09:12:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Edelbrock SB build

     I'd be interested to know how they got these numbers seeing how, to
     the best of my knowledge, Edelbrock doesn't make headers for an Olds!


______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: Edelbrock SB build Author:
oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET Date:    3/14/96 12:12 PM


This graph plots net torque vs. RPM for both a "stock" Olds 350 and the same
motor with Edlebrock's Performer intake, cam, and 1 5/8" headers.  Computing
hp from the graph using the formula   HP = Torque*RPM / 4545, it looks like
the stock motor makes 255hp@4000rpm.  The Edelbrock enhance engine runs
about 308hp@4500rpm, quite an improvement.  The next obvious question, to me
anyway, is which stock 350 did they use?  I posted a question for the techs
on the shop talk page, and they responded:

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 18:02:18 -0400
Subject: Re: '85 Delta 88 Test Drive

Greg,
'85 was the last year of the RWD 88, so they might get a bit more for them.
Too bad about it being crashed into a fence.  The rotors probably just need
to be turned.  I think those still had .060 to work with when new before
hitting the discard spec.  They will probably clean right up.

Rust free and very clean inside - I know how you hate to wait.  Good luck!

David Brown
dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu    (312) 702-9157
"Oldsmobile - powerful roadsters with big V8s"

------------------------------

From: "Jeffrey C. Hunter" <jchunter@xcelco.on.ca>
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 17:15:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Year One URL

At 05:20 PM 3/14/96 -0400, you wrote:
>On Thu, 14 Mar 1996, Pat Clark 952-3776 wrote:
>> 	What was the URL for the Year One net page? Tried to find it with
>> Webcrawler but no luck!
>
>I got there thru http://www.eauto.com  .... BTW, this is an amazing web
>site. I spent some time browsing there again and found some more
>great sites, like an engine rebuild company with an online catalog and
>all kinds of auto parts chains...
>
>I don't remember the Year One URL offhand but I know their email address
>is yearone@mindspring.com
>
>
>
>Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
>
The Year One URL is http://wj.net/f-body/yo/index.html

I am unsure if there are parts,etc. non-F body related on line.

Jeff Hunter

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 18:45:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Speedometer Calibration

Yes, you can determine both the drive and driven gear combo for you
application!  I have done it a few times and will get the program out very
soon, so keep watching...
                                        Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 18:56:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Speedo drive gears:

> >     Here's the theory.  A little dab of black paint on the speedo face to
> >cover up the "km/h" and a thread on speed reducer at the tranny, and
> >"whammo!" a 140 mph speedo, for Olds.  How simple can it get?
>
> Clever... but if the odometer is driven off the same cable, you're also
> gearing that down as well...

I've been following these conversations with great interest because my
speedometer is off, also.  It reads 55, when I go about 65.  I haven't
been too concerned about it, because if I follow the speedometer, it
turns out I'm going the maximum speed cops usually won't ticket you for.

What confuses me is that I think the odometer is measuring correctly.

The car had an aftermarket cruise control that failed.  I just bypassed
the cruise control box.  I forget how the cables ran, but the net effect
was that I took the cable that went from the tranny to the cruise control,
and moved it so it went from the tranny to the speedometer.

-
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- Robert Lawrence   | These opinions are strictly my own, lawrencr@gdls.com
|       ____ (810) 825-8007    |   ___<____>======
                  |  <o_o_o_o_o_o>     Tanks, for your support!

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey King <jking@exame2.dseg.ti.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 21:07:00 -0400
Subject: New kid on the block

As a new subscriber, I thought I might introduce myself and my
Oldsmobile to the list...

I'm Jeffrey King, I live in 'Southwest surburban' Krum, Texas,
and I'm an avid Oldsmobile enthusiast.  Of course, my father
started me on this make since he has been a Olds man for years.
He went from a '54 Olds 98, to a '58 Fiesta Wagon(wow!), to a
'67 Delmont 88, to a '72 Delta 88.  Myself, I started with a
bronze '69 Cutlass 'S', followed by an almost identicle bronze
'69 Cutlass 'S' convertible, and currently own a '61 Olds Super
88 Holiday Sedan (4 dr hardtop) with only 56,000 miles on the
clock (it had only 44K when I bought it 5 years ago).  The car
is white w/ maroon interior.  The insides are like new while the
paint on the outside has chaulked a little because I have no
inside storage.  The only rust is some surface rust on the rear
bumper where the exhaust has baked away the chrome.  I'm currently
having the brake booster/master cylinder rebuilt, I've already
replaced the water pump, and now all that remains is to replace/
rebuild the factory airconditioning system (compressor and hoses
leak freon).  I'm planning on taking it to Arizona, New Mexico and
Colorado this August.  Good road trip car I'm figuring.
I'm working on getting a picture scanned and put in Bryceman's Olds
web page.
I have a couple of questions however... can anyone tell me anything
about that infamous 'slim jim' transmission??  Reliable?  Replacable
with a GM Turbo400??   Second... is there any way to set this thing
to digest format so I don't get 50 messages/day???!!!

Happy Oldsmobiling!!
Jeff King

- --
================================================================
Jeffrey W. King(N5PNU) Internet: -----> jking@exame2.dseg.ti.com
Route 1, Box 290       Internet/packet:   n5pnu@dfwgate.ampr.org
Krum, TX. 76249        Packet:    N5PNU @ N5AUX.#DFW.TX.USA.NOAM
817-482-3446 (home)    214-597-1021 (pager)
214-956-6714 (work)    If none of the above works:    HEY YOU!!!
================================================================
        1961 Oldsmobile Super 88 Holiday Hardtop Sedan
================================================================

------------------------------

From: YourUserId@together.net (Ed Racicot)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 19:31:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Painting

>>I'd d-i-e die if I had to paint an Olds engine orange like 'the' small
block...
>>
>...or that crazy bright-red of the Buick engines of the late 60's!  Oooooh,
>how I love that Toro "Slate Blue"...
>
>
>-Gregg, the '67 Toro guy
>
>I know what you mean Gregg.  I had to pay dearly, $17 a can, for the
correct slate blue

for my 68 Toro.

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 19:23:20 -0400
Subject: 120MPH Speedo...

Here is some info you might be interested in..

Instead of playing with a KM speedo, try to find a original 120mph unit.  I
did a little research last year and found out that GM had a 120 speedo in the
performance catalog back in '86 or '87???  After calling every dealer around
with no one knowing what the hell I was talking about, I called the dealer
from where my 86 442 was originally bought.  Sure enough, this guy had
remembered seeing one and tracked down the part number for me:
                               25083824  120mph Olds speedometer (for factory
gauge package)

The only problem is that GM doesn't make these anymore, but I think you can
get one from Originality Plus 1.909.945.5466.  If anyone tries to get one,
let me know.

                                       Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com

PS  I am pretty sure these units also came stock in 87 442's.  I saw a few
last year at Performance Sunday at Englishtown, NJ.  Can anyone back this
up???

------------------------------

From: JK McCall <jkmccall@QBC.Clic.Net>
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 23:17:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Speedo drive gears:

> I've been following these conversations with great interest because my
> speedometer is off, also.  It reads 55, when I go about 65.  I haven't
> been too concerned about it, because if I follow the speedometer, it
> turns out I'm going the maximum speed cops usually won't ticket you for.
>
> What confuses me is that I think the odometer is measuring correctly.
>
> The car had an aftermarket cruise control that failed.  I just bypassed
> the cruise control box.  I forget how the cables ran, but the net effect
> was that I took the cable that went from the tranny to the cruise control,
> and moved it so it went from the tranny to the speedometer.

Having just recified my cruise problem (factory installation) and having
3 failed units to inspect I found that it was driven 1:1 32 teeth each
gear.  Not sure if that would be any different on an aftermarket setup
but should still remain 1:1...

So maybe to figure out why the difference check the drive & driven
gear and if there is an adapter.  Then Tom might be able to set you up
with the propers gears required.  He did that for me and I'm off to GM to
order some gears this weekend.  I owe him a beer if it checks out.

Hope this might be of some help.

JK McCall

------------------------------

From: Redman@why.net
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 21:52:59 -0400
Subject: Introduction

Hello Everyone.  Just wanted to say hello and give you a description of my
current project.  I have a 67' 425 with a 455 crank.  I have bored it 60
over, I am running 9.5 to 1 compression (cast pistons)  (hydraulic lifters),
Cam - duration @ .050  [Intake 204 Exhuast 214  Lift 450  Exhuast 474].
Pocket ported stock heads, and a Eldebrock Torker Intake.

 Questions:

   1.  Carb?  (I have a 650 Holley) Bigger? yes!!!
   2.  Ignition Box? MSD?
   3.  Horsepower?


  Vehicle:

  18 ft Jet Boat.


PS..   Does anyone have or no where I can get some hooker headers for this
motor (Above        water headers for this motor.  It has 455 heads on this)

***Is it common to have a 425 block with a 455 crank?

------------------------------

From: BYLN96A@prodigy.com ( GLENN CONNORS)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 22:32:28 -0400
Subject: spoiler

I'm looking for a rear wing/spoiler for my '69 4-4-2.  It doesn't
have to be perfect.  I can use a 'core' if that's what you have.  I'm
not looking for NOS...just something I can work with.

Glenn
'69 4-4-2

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 23:18:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Speedo drive gears:

Robert, first of all, the cruise should have no effect on you speedometer
reading.  The cruise unit, either factory or aftermarket, is just a
transducer that lets the the vacuum module (on the throttle linkage) either
increase or decrease the throttle.  This keeps the speedometer cable spinning
as fast as it was originally set.  Ok, hopefully I explained that so you can
understand it.. on to the tranny..

If you let me know your rear tire size, rear axle ratio, drive and driven
gears (inside the tranny), and if there is an adapter present, I'll try to
set you up with some correct gears.  This also goes for anybody else who
would like to try to calibrate there speedo (hopefully I will be able to
finish the program soon and you guys can try it out)

Like I said, any questions, drop me a line...    Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com

------------------------------

From: John Schmich <schmich@AZStarNet.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 23:32:53 -0400
Subject: Re: 120MPH Speedo...

At 07:23 PM 3/14/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Here is some info you might be interested in..
>
>Instead of playing with a KM speedo, try to find a original 120mph unit.  I
>did a little research last year and found out that GM had a 120 speedo in the
>performance catalog back in '86 or '87???  After calling every dealer around
>with no one knowing what the hell I was talking about, I called the dealer
>from where my 86 442 was originally bought.  Sure enough, this guy had
>remembered seeing one and tracked down the part number for me:
>                               25083824  120mph Olds speedometer (for factory
>gauge package)
>
>The only problem is that GM doesn't make these anymore, but I think you can
>get one from Originality Plus 1.909.945.5466.  If anyone tries to get one,
>let me know.
>
>                                       Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com
>
>PS  I am pretty sure these units also came stock in 87 442's.  I saw a few
>last year at Performance Sunday at Englishtown, NJ.  Can anyone back this
>up???
>
>
>I heard a rumor that the 120 speedo came in any 87-88 Cutlass/442 with the
quage package.  I'm not sure if this is actually true but I found this out
when I was trying to find a 120 speedo to replace the 85mph.  Thanks for the
info, I'm still looking for one.

Brandon

------------------------------

From: DGMCEWEN@aol.com
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 00:25:06 -0400
Subject: 60's tranny's?

What auto trannies were used by Olds from 1960 to 1970? What year was the
turbo 400 1st used? 350? Any 3 speed autos before these? Were they any good?
Was the Olds name for the powerglide " Jetaway"? Did it differ from the Chevy
variety?  Could you get a 4 speed before the 64 442 in anything?


                              Thanks in advance, Doug

                                        W41 SCX

------------------------------

From: XDSG80A@prodigy.com (MR JASON P LABAY)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 00:34:00 -0400
Subject: Re: '85 Delta 88 Test Drive

As for the Delta 88 2-doors being rare, I am not sure. I do know that
here in the past year alone we sold at least 10 to the auto recycler.
I do see more 4 than 2 door ones on the road.

Jason
75 H/O W-25

------------------------------

From: "Alex Holland" <hollanda@cia.com>
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 00:45:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Re[4]: Radio question

> Date:          Thu, 14 Mar 1996 12:58:57 -0400
> From:          david.chontofalsky@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu
> To:            oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
> Subject:       Re[4]: Radio question
> Reply-to:      oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca

> Oh please lets get this straight!!!
> This is not my post below!!!!!!!, My post was above it.  I had a 63  98 with
> am/fm(the first year offered in fullsize)
> And a 70 with am/fm 8 track
> David Chontofalsky
>
>
> On Thu, 14 Mar 1996 david.chontofalsky@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu wrote:
> > To the best of my knowledge, only the Canadian models distributed in
> > eastern and central canada had an am-fm optional radio.  None of the
> > U.S. models to my knowledge had this option.  This is mainly due to
> > the U.S. not supporting fm radio back in 1969.  Neither did western
> > Canada.  There was no fm only radio as am was 99% of the market back
> > then and it would never have sold, that's why the fm-am option.  If
> > you are considering this option, try the old wrecking yards in
> > Ontario, or gut the interior and add in a modern internals.   Alex
>
> Uhhh, I don't think so... :)
>
> My '68 has a factory AM/FM. They were offered in Cutlasses starting in (I
> think) '65.  And I can assure you that FM radio was around in the USA long
> before it ever made it here...
>
> Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
>
> I stand corrected.  What I was referring to is that to my
knowledge, G.M. did not support an FM only radio back then.  AM was
still THE standard and while there was an AM/FM radio option it was
relitively rare as there were not a lot of radio stations using the
FM bands at that time.  I did acknwledge an AM/FM option, but from my
hummble experience it was not widely spread in my area.  Can any of
you guys out there confirm an FM ONLY option from G.M. in 1969???
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: "Alex Holland" <hollanda@cia.com>
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 01:00:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Radio question

Yah, I have to agree with you that AM/FM radios were avaiable in most
G.M. cars, Olds and other divisions.  To my knowledge (which is
limited at best) there were no FM Only radio systems offered by G.M.
in the early years.  I would like to hear from anyone if such a beast
existed.  I don't think so because although FM has always been
around, probably since the invention of the radio, it was not all
that popular until the 70's.  I seriously doubt G.M. would have put
out such an option because of its limited demand back then.  What do
you other guys out there have to say on the subject?   Anyone got an
FM only radio in their car?

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 01:28:17 -0400
Subject: Here's where I find those cheap cars- Now online (sorta long)

I posted the prices of a few "interesting" cars a bit back, during the debate
over the value of a brand-new condition 4-dr '68 Cutlass (did he ever sell
that thing? How much?), and some people remarked at how low the prices
seemed.

Well, I picked up a copy of that trader's rag called the Bargain News that
serves Connecticut and the surrounding areas, and discovered that they now
have a presence online (http://www.bargainnews.com), and that they don't
charge (at least for now; they hope not to). I've been reading the ads from
this paper for the last 18 years or so, and it has become *the* place to
advertise, since they don't charge for print ads (they make money off cover
price, photo ads and ads for dealers; it's worked this way for 20 yrs, so
they must know what they're doing).

I think they are just starting out online, so there may be some bugs. I'll
post a few Olds jems from the latest issue in another message.

This is the faq about their web site available at
http://www.bargainnews.com/faq.htm
- ------

What is The Bargain News?

     The Bargain News is a weekly newspaper specializing in classified and

     photo advertising for both privately owned and dealer owned items for

     sale. For over 25 years, the Bargain News has gone on sale in stores

     and newsstands throughout all of Connecticut, southern Rhode Island,

     southwestern Massachusetts, and neighboring New York counties. Over

     35,000 buyers each week pick up the 250 page paper at over 3,000

     outlets each Thursday with a total readership of over 150,000 readers

     weekly. Every week, the Bargain News brings together tens of thousands

     of buyers and sellers of good used cars, trucks, and general

     merchandise from all across Southern New England. Our Classified Ad

     Database consists primarily of privately owned merchandise with a

     separate dealer section in each category. We diligently put together

     one of the largest classified collections in the world every Thursday

     and now we proudly present it to you easily and conveniently right on

     your computer screen. With our incredibly fast "Bargain Search'

     feature, you'll find exactly what you are looking for, exactly when

     you need it, it couldn't be any easier.....the Bargain News Online.



What Is the Bargain New Online Edition?

     With the new technology available today, the Bargain News is now able

     to take our entire 20,000 classified ad database and make it available

     to individuals through the Internet. Our Super Fast Bargain Search

     tool makes it easy for you to find exactly what you are looking for in

     seconds. You can make your searches as broad or a narrow as you want,

     spend hours browsing or seconds finding. All searches will give you a

     complete list of privately owned classifieds first followed by a

     separate section of dealer classifieds. Over 150 categories available

     assure you of finding just about anything you could be looking for.



How do I get Bargain News Online?

     Bargain News Online is now available on a free subscription basis.

     Once a subscriber you will have unlimited access to the database

     anytime 24 hours a day, you will be able to 'store' classifieds that

     you choose in your own personal notepad for future viewing or to print

     out, and you will be the first to receive many new and exciting

     opportunities as we develop them. You will also be able to go on line

     the first thing on Thursdays to view all of the new listings and get a

     jump on the newsstand sales.



When will the Bargain News start charging for this service?

     It is our hope that we will never have to charge for this online

     service. As long as the use of this service does not hurt our

     newsstand sales, we will continue to keep it available for free. Our

     future plans include selling advertising space on our server to car

     dealers, real estate agents, and other businesses to help subsidize

     the cost of the system. To register for your free subscription, simply

     fill out our subscription form and follow the on screen directions to

     choose your own personal ID and Password.



Where are the photos that are in the Printed Edition?

     We are in the process right now of developing the program necessary to

     deliver fast and high quality color photos as a choice to be added to

     our classifieds. We also plan to offer business advertising pages with

     direct instant e-mail available to their stores and offices. Since we

     want to present our subscribers with a state of the art system, this

     will probably take us a few months to get on line. Look for the Photos

     and even more coming to this service soon.



- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------



We want your feedback! Please e-mail us comments, suggestions, and

recommendations. We want to make this the best service of it's kind

available and we need your help to do it. Send your e-mail to :

webmaster@bargainnews.com . or call us toll free during regular business

hours at 1-800-288-4226

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 01:28:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Rebuilt 403, 307 from GM

In a message dated 96-03-14 10:47:49 EST, you write:

>Check out:
>http://www.GMProShop.Com/
>
>They show just a list, but no prices.

I was in my local Buick dealer striking-out for a turn-signal lever for my
Electra (403 powered), so I asked about the availability of reman. 403's.
They had two part numbers for the complete long-blocks, one covering
'77-'78's and one for the '79's. The '77-'78 replacement has been
discontinued, but the part for the 1979 403 is still good (he couldn't tell
me how they differ, except that they had diff. part #'s)

It is part# 22536542, and the dealer quoted me a price of $1800.

They also had listings for short blocks, and "partials" (which has crank,
rods, pistons and bearings installed in a block; you add all the rest), but
these were no longer available for the 403. I suppose you might find some
lying about in some dealership somewhere, but you can't just order them
anymore.

I'm still going to hold out for a non-webbed '77 to rebuild, if they exist...


I suppose the 307's would still be available in all three forms. That
"partial" setup sounds nice, especially if you are going to be adding your
own cam and early heads. They take care of the critical clearances and
machine work, and you get to do the fun stuff! Too bad they didn't have any
403's. They may have 350's in that form, though; I didn't think to ask.

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 01:30:10 -0400
Subject: Olds' for sale in CT/NY area

I thought these might be of interest to a few people. I have no connection of
any sort with any of the sellers, so don't contact me about them; I just
posts what I sees...

In the Interesting category:

* 1979 Delta 88 Holiday (wasn't someone raving about this particular model on
this list about a week ago?-ed.), pw, tilt, bucket seats, automatic console,
new tires, air, very good condition, low miles, asking $1500 (203) 926-9126

* 1969 442, 2dr, hardtop, 75,000 orig. mi, full power, air, black on black,
$7500 (203) 322-7255 (hmmm, only 442 in whole paper... Are you Canadians
buying up all of our cars? ;) -ed.)

* 1970 Cutlass, rebuilt performance 455, new 350 Turbo, dual carters, tunnel
ram, chromed, only 3000 miles, Alpine Alarm, complete gauge set up, needs
paint only, $2100 (718) 739-6542 (Q)

* 1968 Toronado, 455, auto, every available option, straight rust-free body,
call for information (201) 779-1563 Gus (hmmm. good source for those C-heads
to put on your mid-80's 442, huh? someone wanted a power antenna switch for a
Toro too, didn't they? Sounds like a perfect candidate for parting... ;)
- -ed.)

* 1967 Olds 442 Convt, 4spd, stored since '80's, frame rot, best offer (516)
731-4346 (N)

* 1967 Olds 98 Convt, 425 Super Rocket, all pwer options, am/fm radio, tilt,
telescopic wheel, needs work, great project car, 80,000 miles, $1800 (917)
966-1370 beeper (Q)

And some interesting parts:

* Olds 6 pack manifold aluminum Offenhauser, fits older engine, brand new
(203) 371-0398

* Olds Tri Power with complete carb, $950 (516) 593-9630

* 71-72 Olds 442 Bumper core, exc. cond, $350 (914) 472-4977

* 73 Olds 442 Gutted shell, no glass, interior or driveline, no title, posi
rear, factory mags, $300 (516) 230-3944 (S)

* Original Olds Decals, 442 decals for Olds Rally wheel center caps, $15 set
of 4 (718) 478-7943

And in the nice car, but not too special category:

* 67 98 Coupe, ps, pb, seats (always nice to have seats in a car.-ed.) trunk
(that too...-ed.), antenna, working air, original motor, working air (must be
proud of that, he listed it twice!), rust, runs & drive, restorable, (917)
766-6590

* 1968 Delmont 88, 2dr hardtop, second owner, 68,000 mi, runs like new, ps,
pb, 350 cu in automatic, dependable, $1500 (203) 264-4700 10am-6pm or (203)
264-0260

* 72 Cutlass Supreme, 2 dr, red, rally wheels, sport wheel, runs great, needs
front nose, $550 (914) 472-4977

* 72 Vista Cruiser Wagon, runs or for parts, $250 (203) 938-2101 (big-block
perhaps? #7 heads at least- hmmm. I may look at this one...-ed.)

* 73 Cutlass Supreme, 65,000 orig. mi. 350 Rocket perfect, recent trans.
exhaust, new BF Goodrich, many extra parts, needs some body work, $850 (203)
876-8880 Ron

* 75 Cutlass Supreme, 2dr, pb, ps, air, tilt, 350 V8, 89,000 orig. mi. good
cond, runs great, well maintained, $650 (203) 268-7621 Paul

* 76 Toronado, 455 engine, restorable, very negotiable. (718) 939-8319 (Q)
Kevin

I don't know what's going on here, but there are about a dozen listings for
1978-1983 Olds 88's and Cutlass' for about $500. Lets see, we've got:

2-1979 C/S's, 3-1979 88's, 2-1980 C/S's, 1-1980 Toro (needs tranny work, but
$300), 1-1981 Calais (console and gauges), 1-1981 C/S, 4-1982 C/S's, 1-1982
Ciera (if you care), 1-1982 88, 1-1982 Royale 4dr, 1-1983 88 Royale 4dr, and
1-1982 Toro w/leather int.,

all between $300 and $695! Most are priced right at $500 though. The funny
thing is, the prices for the '83 and later cars jumps to about $2000, give or
take.

As I posted in another message, these things should all be available online
at http://www. bargainnews.com

------------------------------

From: "Peg O'Connor" <peg@grove.ufl.EDU>
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 03:42:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Speedo drive gears:

>      Here's the theory.  A little dab of black paint on the speedo face to
> cover up the "km/h" and a thread on speed reducer at the tranny, and
> "whammo!" a 140 mph speedo, for Olds.  How simple can it get?
>      I've never seen such an adaptor, nor have I any clue of its existance
> outside of my own imagination, but with this wonderful world of computers, I
> have the opportunity to probe everyone else's imaginations, on the off
> chance someone else had the same idea, and the facilities to put it into
> reality!  (Whew!  How's that for a big load of stuff!!!)
>      Anyone out there ever heard of such a thing?  If not, I guess it's food
> for thought for any other DIY'ers.

Been there, done that :) .  It works, except that now it's calibrated as
a ratio of the actual speed.  It *looks* great, but I've never been able
to calibrate it properly.  At 60 mph, though, it's right on!  And it sure
does look impressive.  Someone here was working on a program to help
calibrate speedos . . . . maybe that would help me.  :)

------------------------------

From: david.chontofalsky@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 08:44:38 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: '85 Delta 88 Test Drive

I remember us selling quite a few Delta 88 coupes in early to mid 80s' (RWD)
I dont think that they are that rare either

 My roomates parents have a tripple black '85 Royale Brougham coupe loaded
with everything inc. power moon roof.  Garage kept and they were trying to
sell it for $3500.  the trans was slipping a little.  They had no callers, so
they invested in a trans and decided to keep it.  The car is a 1000,000 mile
cream puff, garage kept.   I considered it but I much prefer the 77-79 raked
back roof line instead of the notched formal roof. (plus I like the  403 power
vs the 307 power plant)

I remember us stocking alot of two toned  88's in the light beige/dark
claret(red) and the light beige/Dark Royal blue.  This was not a choice I
personally would have made ( I thought that it clashed) but we sure sold a
hell of a lot of 'em!!!   we even carried 4 doors in that color combo as stock
units.
 No insults intended, but that body did not look too terribly appealing in two
tone finish.
David.chontofalsky@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu



*******
As for the Delta 88 2-doors being rare, I am not sure. I do know that
here in the past year alone we sold at least 10 to the auto recycler.
I do see more 4 than 2 door ones on the road.

Jason
75 H/O W-25

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 09:18:45 -0400
Subject: Re: 60's tranny's?

At 12:25 AM 3/15/96 -0400, you wrote:
>What auto trannies were used by Olds from 1960 to 1970? What year was the
>turbo 400 1st used? 350? Any 3 speed autos before these? Were they any good?
>Was the Olds name for the powerglide " Jetaway"? Did it differ from the Chevy
>variety?  Could you get a 4 speed before the 64 442 in anything?
>
>
>                              Thanks in advance, Doug
>
>                                        W41 SCX

I don't know about ALL the trannies used by Olds during the 1960s, but
I DO know about the Jetaway.  It was introduced in 1964 on the F-85 and
Jetstar 88 series.  It was a 2-speed automatic with what Olds called
"variable vane" drive.  This was a feature where the pitch of the torque
converter vanes was adjusted to correspond to engine speed.  It was
supposed to give quicker acceleration from a stop and at low speeds.

I have a 64 Jetstar 88 with 125,000 miles on it, and the Jetaway works
just fine.

I don't know a THING about whether it differs from the Chevy Powerglide.
And Jetaway was most certainly NOT Olds's name for it.  As far as I know,
the only thing the two transmissions have in common is that they're both
two-speed automatics.

I've read a number of articles about the Jetaway in automotive publications
of the time, and not one of them mentions any relation to the Powerglide, so
I assume they're different beasts.

The Jetaway was used for a number of years, but I don't know exactly when Olds
stopped offering it.


************************************************
Daniel A. Gulino
Associate Professor and Graduate Chairman
Department of Chemical Engineering
Ohio University
Athens, Ohio  45701-2979
(614) 593-1495
(614) 593-0873 (fax)
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://www.ent.ohiou.edu/che/faculty/gulino.html
(or just open the window and shout!)
************************************************

------------------------------

From: david.chontofalsky@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 09:50:11 -0400
Subject: Re[6]: Radio question

Actually FM was popular for easy listening music.  If Im not mistaken FM
started to gain public acceptance/popularity after the 1939 New York Worlds
Fair along with Television.  It gained more popularity along with stereo
recordings in the late 1950's.  (1957-1958)  along with 8 Tracks.  YES 8
tracks were something from the fifties.  I have a few LEARJET ads for 8 track
home stereo units in some old car magazines. As far as an FM only radio HMMMM
I dont recall ever seeing one.  I grew up with an Olds dealership in the
family and I don't  see why they would have even made such a beast.  Now I
have seen an FM/cassette or FM 8track aftermarket. but not factory. I've seen
AM, AMFM mono, AM/FM stereo, AM/8track (Stereo tape), AM/FM Cassette(as early
as 1971 possibly earlier as an factory under dash unit)   But as someone
posted earlier, The only thing that I can recall that was close to what you
are describing is the flipping dial on the late 60's early 70's Pontiac
radios. David.chontofalsky@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu David > > I stand corrected.
What I was referring to is that to my knowledge, G.M. did not support an FM
only radio back then.  AM was still THE standard and while there was an AM/FM
radio option it was relitively rare as there were not a lot of radio stations
using the FM bands at that time.  I did acknwledge an AM/FM option, but from
my hummble experience it was not widely spread in my area.  Can any of you
guys out there confirm an FM ONLY option from G.M. in 1969??? > > > >

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 10:20:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Re[6]: Radio question

>Actually FM was popular for easy listening music.  If Im not mistaken FM
started
>to gain public acceptance/popularity after the 1939 New York Worlds Fair
along >with Television.  It gained more popularity along with stereo
recordings in the >late 1950's.


Actually, while the subject may not be directly related to Oldsmobiles, the
history
here is interesting, if not depressing.

FM was developed in the 1930s, and was originally assigned the 42-50 MHz band.
The AM industry did its best to destroy FM before it ever got started.  The AM
industry in general and RCA in particular got the FCC to put all sorts of
stupid restrictions on what FM stations could do, such as limiting their power
and, for a time, forcing them to simulcast what was on their corresponding AM
station (most FM stations initially were started by an already-existing AM
station.)

One of the worst blows was when RCA got the FCC to change FM's frequency
allocation
to the 88-108 MHZ band we have today (at the time, the 42-50 MHz band was
known as
"low FM," while the 88-108 was called "high FM").  In retrospect, this was
probably
a benefit because it allowed more stations.  But at the time, the switch,
which occurred during the 1940s, immediately rendered thousands of FM radios
obsolete and set the industry back at least 10 years if not 20, which was
precisely the goal of the AM interests.

FM multiplexing, which allowed for stereo broadcasts, was one of the last
inventions
of Edwin Armstrong, the inventor of FM itself.  He invented it in 1952.
He committed suicide in 1954 over
all of the problems he faced in getting FM to market.


The story is so sordid because it was a case of an industry (actualy, a
single company)
controlling every move that a government regulatory agency made.



************************************************
Daniel A. Gulino
Associate Professor and Graduate Chairman
Department of Chemical Engineering
Ohio University
Athens, Ohio  45701-2979
(614) 593-1495
(614) 593-0873 (fax)
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://www.ent.ohiou.edu/che/faculty/gulino.html
(or just open the window and shout!)
************************************************

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 11:04:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Re[6]: Radio question

>I've seen AM, AMFM mono, AM/FM stereo, AM/8track (Stereo tape), AM/FM
>Cassette(as early as 1971 possibly earlier as an factory under dash unit)
>But as someone posted earlier, the only thing that I can recall that was
>close to what you are describing is the flipping dial on the late 60's
>early 70's Pontiac radios.

My '69 Pontiac catalog shows a hump-mounted 8-track player available. No
mention of the more common dial-in-door integrated 8-track units there.

There's also, from the mid-'80's, AM stereo/FM stereo, as shown in my
mother's, ahem, mumbledodgelancermumble. The AM stereo works just fine
for those few AM stations that actually bother with it, but that number
is dropping, I think. The 50,000-watt WBBM-AM station here in Chicago
has quietly dropped their stereo broadcast as of a few months ago. WGN
is still using it, last time I noticed.

As far as an FM-only unit, I've never heard of one. FM _converters_
were real popular for a while as hang-on aftermarket units, where you
attached a separate tuner to the underside of the dash and piped the
signal to the AM radio on a particular AM frequency. I've got about
five assorted FM convertors on the shelf, if anyone wants a contemporary
convertor for their late-'60's to early-'70's restoration...
- --
Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 11:17:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Speedo drive gears:

>Robert, first of all, the cruise should have no effect on your speedometer
>reading.  The cruise unit, either factory or aftermarket, is just a
>transducer that lets the the vacuum module (on the throttle linkage) either
>increase or decrease the throttle.  This keeps the speedometer cable spinning
>as fast as it was originally set.

Scattered thoughts on this topic, which seems to have gone on forever: :-)


- -- The factory transducer is in-line, with two separate speedo cables
(one in, one out) and presumably a 1:1 gear drive connecting them. I
have replaced one or two in years past which seized up and sheared the
input drive cable.

- -- The speedometer can be inaccurate, variable or whatever due to its
design, where spinning magnets (I am _not_ claiming expertise on this
one! :-) deflect the needle along its scale, but the odometer is geared
directly to the input drive cable and, assuming the correct drive gear
ratio at the transmission, should _not_ be inaccurate regardless of age.
The speedo may a bit out of whack, a little high or low, but the odometer
is either right or wrong. If the odometer is right, fix the speedo; if
the odometer is wrong, fix the transmission drive gears (e.g. see if
someone forgot to swap over the old ones when changing transmissions,
or put a significantly non-original tire size on the car).

- -- Re: The question about whether 442s had 120-mph speedometers: The
owner's manual of any Cutlass would typically show _all_ available dash
clusters. I know my '82's does, but the book is at home. Anyway, a look
in any Cutlass owner's manual for the year(s) in question might help.
- --
Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 12:01:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Re[2]: '85 Delta 88 Test Drive

On Fri, 15 Mar 1996 david.chontofalsky@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu wrote:
> I remember us selling quite a few Delta 88 coupes in early to mid 80s' (RWD)
I > dont think that they are that rare either > > I remember us stocking alot
of two toned  88's in the light beige/dark > claret(red) and the light
beige/Dark Royal blue.  This was not a choice I > personally would have made (
I thought that it clashed) but we sure sold a hell > of a lot of 'em!!!   we
even carried 4 doors in that color combo as stock units. >  No insults
intended, but that body did not look too terribly appealing in two > tone
finish.

Maybe, but I don't see many around here. Especially rust-free like this
one. The one I looked at was a very dark red, almost black, with a
matching vinyl landau top, red pinstripe, and red velour interior. Someone
mentioned the LS model had leftover 98 interiors but I can't imagine it
being much more plush than this bordello job. :) It's not two-toned and
seeing that huge chromey eggcrate grill against the near-black paint, it
sure looked snazzy!

I like the notchback body a lot better than the 77-79 style because it
looks longer and lower to me. But I've pretty much decided not to buy it
unless he'll go to like $2K or so. The prospect of investing in paint and
body doesn't thrill me at the moment. I know of an absolutely mint one
that sold recently for $4K so I think that's the absolute top end right
now in this market.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 12:06:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Re[6]: Radio question

On Fri, 15 Mar 1996 david.chontofalsky@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu wrote:
> I've seen AM, AMFM mono, AM/FM stereo, AM/8track (Stereo tape), AM/FM
> Cassette(as early as 1971 possibly earlier as an factory under dash unit)
But > as someone posted earlier, The only thing that I can recall that was
close to > what you are describing is the flipping dial on the late 60's early
70's Pontiac > radios.

Didn't Olds have a flipping dial AM/FM in '70 or '71? Could have sworn I
saw one in a Cutlass of that vintage at a car show last year.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 12:04:42 -0400
Subject: Re: 60's tranny's?

On Fri, 15 Mar 1996, Daniel Gulino wrote:
> I don't know a THING about whether it differs from the Chevy Powerglide.
> And Jetaway was most certainly NOT Olds's name for it.  As far as I know,
> the only thing the two transmissions have in common is that they're both
> two-speed automatics.

I think later ('67 or '68) Jetaways were Powerglides. I'm pretty sure
that's what's in my '68 Cutlass.

> The Jetaway was used for a number of years, but I don't know exactly when
Olds > stopped offering it.

I think '69 was the last year for it, unless maybe it was offered in
early 6-cyl. Omegas (Novas).

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: david.chontofalsky@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 12:00:13 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: 60's tranny's?

Dan,
I had a '69 Cutlass "S" with a 250(chevrolet produced) inline six. and that
had the 2 speed trans.  Whether that was a Jetaway or not I could not tell
you, but it whined like a powerglide at an idle.  Maybe Whine isn't the
correct tern, Powerglides make a distinctive hum,  YEAH HUMM, Thats it !!!!
Anyway growing up we had a few foreign cars with a power glide; 62 Impala SS,
'63 BelAir and a '65 Impala wagon and they had the same hum. ( We were sort of
the black sheep because we had a few bowties in our stable along with the
single Rocket, and my dads brother-in-law had the Rocket shop)  But I think
the 2 speed trans was discontinued when the standard  six cylinder engine in
the Cutlass became a V8 and that was 1970.  In '70 the standard engine was the
Olds produced 350. David.Chontofalsky@MCMAIL.vanderbilt.edu David
***************



The Jetaway was used for a number of years, but I don't know exactly when Olds
stopped offering it.


************************************************
Daniel A. Gulino
Associate Professor and Graduate Chairman
Department of Chemical Engineering
Ohio University
Athens, Ohio  45701-2979
(614) 593-1495
(614) 593-0873 (fax)
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://www.ent.ohiou.edu/che/faculty/gulino.html
(or just open the window and shout!)
************************************************

------------------------------

From: david.chontofalsky@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 12:37:20 -0400
Subject: Re[4]: '85 Delta 88 Test Drive

mentioned the LS model had leftover 98 interiors but I can't imagine it
being much more plush than this bordello job. :) It's not two-toned and
seeing that huge chromey eggcrate grill against the near-black paint, it
sure looked snazzy!
Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada


Greg,
Yea, I rember the LS models.  I believe that was the nose shared with the
Custom Cruiser.  Also, the tail lamps were standard 88 lamps but the reverse
lights on the LS were not the square box's on either side of the license
plate, but instead the LS models had the 98 style, 2 long thin stacked bezels
that streached between the tail lights and the license plate.  The 88 LS did
use a so rt of 98ish interior as did the wagon.  The LS also had the high
level moulding that started from the top side of the front marker lights and
went to the top of the tail lights with a LS badge on the roof.  ( Thats all I
can remember about these from memory,  I have all the sales brochures for
Oldsmobile starting with 1950 to 1990 and a few that are a little more
current. but I skipped a few years )
  You'd think they would have called this an Oldsmobile 93 (1/2 way between a
88 and 98   pun intended, )

David.Chontofalsky@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu
David
74 H/O

------------------------------

From: david.chontofalsky@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 13:05:36 -0400
Subject: Re[8]: Radio question

Greg,
The AM/FM that was in my '70 W-30 was not one that flipped.  I think that the
flip dials were a Pontiac/Chevrolet item.  Now a Canadian model, that may have
been so, I m not that familliar with the Canadian Models.  But the one I had
was stereo with the under dash Olds 8 track.   AND What an UGLY color that car
was. Whomever ordered a 442 W-30 hardtop in Metalic Sea foam Green  needed to
have their head examined.  Also the people that ordered my '70 Royale, yea !
them too,  'Cause it was that same Dirty Atlantic City Ocean water green
color. (thats what I dubbed SeaFoam Metalic  :)  )  That must have been a real
poop-ula r color in 69 and 70 David.Chontofalsky@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu David

Didn't Olds have a flipping dial AM/FM in '70 or '71? Could have sworn I
saw one in a Cutlass of that vintage at a car show last year.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: "A. G. Crisp" <gcrisp@tribeca.ios.com>
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 13:40:45 -0400
Subject: 1974 Hurst/Olds

Hello,
	I am the proud owner of a 1974 Hurst/Olds and am having a bit of 
trouble
locating information, history and genral literature about the car. I've seen
books up to the 1972 models, but nothing thereafter.Are these cars
unappreciated or is there just a lack of available info? Any assistance would
be greatly appreciated.

								Thanks,

								Glenn

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 13:59:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Re[8]: Radio question

>The AM/FM that was in my '70 W-30 was not one that flipped.  I think that the
>flip dials were a Pontiac/Chevrolet item.

Back then all the radio cutouts were extremely non-standard, and while
the Cutlass/Skylark/Chevelle had large cutouts, the LeMans/GTO did not,
and I think the flipdial design was a spacesaving effort to fit a readable
dial into a narrow opening. Plus it looked cool.  :-)

Unfortunately it led to a lot of extremely butchered Pontiac dashboards
when people tried to stuff in aftermarket stereos. In fact I think Year
One sells repro dash panels now...

>AND What an UGLY color that car was.
>Whomever ordered a 442 W-30 hardtop in Metalic Sea foam Green  needed to have
>their head examined.  Also the people that ordered my '70 Royale, yea !  them
>too,  'Cause it was that same Dirty Atlantic City Ocean water green color.
>(thats what I dubbed SeaFoam Metalic  :)  )  That must have been a real
>poop-ular color in 69 and 70

...and doesn't it just _improve_ with age after it gets all chalky, faded
and bleached?  :-)
- --
Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: david.chontofalsky@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 14:02:14 -0400
Subject: Re: 1974 Hurst/Olds

Glen,
Here is where I can help you.  I also have a 1974 HO. Literature is a pain in
the ass to find but I have acquired just about everything printed for 1974's
What do you want to know?
I can put an entire disseratation on the 74 here on the list or I can email
you privatly. David.Chontofalsky@mcmail.Vanderbilt.edu David

lo,
 I am the proud owner of a 1974 Hurst/Olds and am having a bit of trouble
locating
information, history and genral literature about the car. I've seen books up
to the 1972 models, but nothing thereafter.Are these cars unappreciated or is
there just a lack of available info? Any assistance would be greatly
appreciated.

        Thanks,

        Glenn

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 14:19:23 -0400
Subject: Spoilers

If any of you care to put a spoiler on your car, I'll have you know that
JCWhitney has them at $30 off right now, a special catalog I just got... makes
themn about $170 ??? Interested parties call them, I guess, or I can get the
catalog # and part# if need be. I cannot vouch for the quality of the item,
have heard it's suboptimal, but so are a lot of cars...

also, I have yet to get ANY Yr. 1 'special sale' notice. Guess I failed to
spend enough last year there.
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: david.chontofalsky@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 14:25:36 -0400
Subject: Re[10]: Radio question

Yup, Andrew,
And I am here to tell you I did not want to change the color combo on the W-30
and I thought that it might not be too terribly offensive if it would shine.
SOOOOO  I spent some rather big bucks and had the car painted and striped back
to the Seafoam metallic  / Black stripe format.  It was still ugly.  Shiny but
still ugly, needless to say I was so disenchanted that I sold it within the
year .  I wish i'd had the car back now.  :-(
David.Chontofalsky@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu

david


>AND What an UGLY color that car was.
>Whomever ordered a 442 W-30 hardtop in Metalic Sea foam Green  needed to have
>their head examined.  Also the people that ordered my '70 Royale, yea !  them
>too,  'Cause it was that same Dirty Atlantic City Ocean water green color.
>(thats what I dubbed SeaFoam Metalic  :)  )  That must have been a real
>poop-ular color in 69 and 70

...and doesn't it just _improve_ with age after it gets all chalky, faded
and bleached?  :-)
- --
Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Sandy Stewart <WASTEWART@gov.pe.ca>
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 15:00:10 -0400
Subject: Re[8]: Radio question -Reply

My 1972 442 has an AM-FM stereo radio with a "flipping dial".  The 71-72
radios are almost identical.  I believe that the 1970 AM-FM stereo radios
were two piece models.

8 tracks were available in 1968 if not earlier.  Models up to 1972 are
similar except for different trim face plates.  I believe that the 68 models
were metal colored, whereas my72 is imitation wood grain trim plate to
match the instrument panel applique (rosewood or burl wood or
somerthing like that).  Now if the person I bought the car from hadn't cut
speakers into the door panels and package shelf......

Sandy Stewart            WAStewart@gov.pe.ca
Prince Edward Island
Canada

------------------------------

From: david.chontofalsky@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 15:12:57 -0400
Subject: Re[9]: Radio question -Reply

Sandy,
Once again is this a canadian model?
This is very interesting,  Were the available radios different in Canada???
David.Chontofalsky@mcmail.vanderbilt.edu

My 1972 442 has an AM-FM stereo radio with a "flipping dial".  The 71-72
radios are almost identical.  I believe that the 1970 AM-FM stereo radios
were two piece models.

8 tracks were available in 1968 if not earlier.  Models up to 1972 are
similar except for different trim face plates.  I believe that the 68 models
were metal colored, whereas my72 is imitation wood grain trim plate to
match the instrument panel applique (rosewood or burl wood or
somerthing like that).  Now if the person I bought the car from hadn't cut
speakers into the door panels and package shelf......

Sandy Stewart            WAStewart@gov.pe.ca
Prince Edward Island
Canada

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #119
******************************** 
