
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

oldsmobile-digest          Saturday, 2 March 1996       Volume 01 : Number 107


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Dink" <heinle@jake.udayton.edu>
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 20:24:22 -0400
Subject: babbling

Well after 4 tests in 5 days I have some time to babble.  2 weeks ago,
I changed my oil, oil filter, air filter, pcv, breather element.  And
now for some reason it seems to idle rougher, like a lumpy cam
kinda(which is fine by me.) For some reason it seams very noticable, and idea
why it would act like this after a tune-up?  Also it seems louder, why I
don't know. The only thing I can guess is that for some reason when I
switched to Mobil 1 synthetic 10W-30 (same weight as before)  it changed
something. I used all Fram filters, and have used them before will great
success.  The plugs have 15k on them but are 2 1/2 years old, I plan on
changing them next weekend, the MSD wires are only a year old at the most as
well as the Accel cap, rotor, and supercoil.  I also have a MSD 6A, could
this be the problem?

Dink "in babbling mode"
80 Delta 88 Royale

{
Dink           Dayton, Ohio
http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
}

------------------------------

From: Jeff & Patti Kobinsky <jkpkobin@discover-net.net>
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 01:01:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Looking for good quarters

>I have a 1974 Hurst (Y77) Pace edition and I am in need of some kind of
solution
>to rot around the rear wheel opening lip.  Is there a remedy for this on
those >colonade body coupes? >David > > >If you find an outlet for 1974 sheet
metal, let me know - I have a 74 442 with bad metal in the back.

Jeff
JEFF & PATTI KOBINSKY

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 07:15:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Olds fuel injection manifolds

>No -the intake manifold is aluminum.  I have one in my shed. :)  Anyone
>wanna buy it?

     Well, somehow I managed to lose the next message of this subject, but
if this is the one with throttle body, injectors, etc. I'd be
interested/amused to experiment.  Interested in trading for anything?  I've
got a couple decent sets of headers for '70 style A-body Olds, and an Offy
dual port if I find something really interesting/enticing.


>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- >    Rod Rickenbach                                       Delaware Tech >
rod@dtcc.edu                                 Computer Services Department
>http://www.dtcc.edu/~rod                            Stanton/Wilmington Campus 
> > > >
                   |
           ________|________
          {        |        } Charley Buehner
          {        |        } "Rockit 1"
          {        |        } buehner@cis.nmclites.edu
          {        |        } http://www.nmclites.edu/~buehner
          {        |        }
          {        |        }
          {        |        }
          {        |        }
          {       /|\       }   "There's no replacement
          {     /  |  \     }        for displacement..."
          {   /    |    \   }
          { /      |      \ }
          {       ]|[       }
          {       ]|[       }
          {       ]^[       }
          {       ]^[       }
          """"""""]^[""""""""
                   ^
                   ^

------------------------------

From: 76642.105@compuserve.com
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 13:49:59 -0400
Subject: Quad 4

I've been searching for info on the Quad 4 engine. It seems tough to find.
Kind of odd, since Olds put so much into the project. If anybody can help,
please let me know.

Thanks,
Jim

------------------------------

From: admin@po.cle.ab.com (ccMail SMTPLINK)
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I've been searching for info on the Quad 4 engine. It seems tough to find.
Kind of odd, since Olds put so much into the project. If anybody can help,
please let me know.

Thanks,
Jim

------------------------------

From: gludlam@bcinet.net (Gregg Ludlam)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 14:56:41 -0400
Subject: Re: The Details...

>Paul I have about 8 of them. Let me know if you want one.
>
>
>>>you dont happen to know where there is a deep sump olds oil pan or
>>>Toronado pan anywehre do you?

Eight of them?!  My drain hole is stripped, so I could probably use one if
it doesn't tap-out OK.  How much?


- -Gregg, the '67 Toro guy

------------------------------

From: admin@po.cle.ab.com (ccMail SMTPLINK)
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>Paul I have about 8 of them. Let me know if you want one.
>
>
>>>you dont happen to know where there is a deep sump olds oil pan or
>>>Toronado pan anywehre do you?

Eight of them?!  My drain hole is stripped, so I could probably use one if
it doesn't tap-out OK.  How much?


- -Gregg, the '67 Toro guy

------------------------------

From: gludlam@bcinet.net (Gregg Ludlam)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 15:04:51 -0400
Subject: Karate Kid W-30 442

It was a dry morning for TV...switched on HBO and Karate Kid XXII was on.
Some goon in the movie was driving an orange 442, either a '71 or '72 with
W-30 badges on it.  Awesome looking car - until it got blown-up by bad guys
at the end of the movie!


- -Gregg, the '67 Toro guy

------------------------------

From: admin@po.cle.ab.com (ccMail SMTPLINK)
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It was a dry morning for TV...switched on HBO and Karate Kid XXII was on.
Some goon in the movie was driving an orange 442, either a '71 or '72 with
W-30 badges on it.  Awesome looking car - until it got blown-up by bad guys
at the end of the movie!


- -Gregg, the '67 Toro guy

------------------------------

From: rinacker@voicenet.com (Rich Inacker)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 15:22:37 -0400
Subject: Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 #106

Charley Buehner (buehner@cis.nmclites.edu) writes:

>While some carb's may be able to produce more power, or at least more
>airflow than some EFI setups, the advantages are there.  The EFI has the
>potential for constant feedback allowing for constant maximum efficiency.

Right. Let's not forget the basics here ! The engine doesn't know or care
what type of induction system is on it. All it knows is air/fuel ratio and
timing. If you get the A/F correct with a carb and the timing is right for
the combo, then the car will run every bit as good as a fuel injected car.
The real advantage of the FI setups is their ability to compensate for
different conditions with variable fuel delivery curves and timing curves.

As far as MAF systems being restirictive, yes that is a concern at some
point, but there are Grand Nationals running in the 11s with stock MAF
sensors.

And what's this about Edelbrock tooling up for Olds aluminum heads ? Anyone
know the timeframe ? Tell me more... :-)

Rich

- -----
rinacker@voicenet.com
http://www.voicenet.com/~rinacker

------------------------------

From: ngomez@iadfw.net (Nick Gomez)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 14:20:46 -0400
Subject: Local (Texas) Olds' For Sale

1956 Super 88, $3595, 512-280-7640 or 512-908-5784
1969 Cutlass conv, $5150, 210-493-0430
1950 Rocket 88, $3200, 214-824-6683
1967 Cutlass S, $1000, 713-633-8223
1970 442 W30, $8500, 409-698-9637
1970 442 W30, $5900, 817-572-2924
1970 'Rally' 350, $7000, 713-998-9126
1968 Cutlass S, $7500, 713-440-1998
1963 F85, $5500, 713-575-7649 or 713-904-8934
1969 442 conv, $4995, 409-539-4660 or 409-539-5222
1970 Cutlass conv, $12750, 713-495-6705
1940 70 Series, $8000, 713-466-7179
1964 Jet Star 88, $900, ???-383-2690
1970 442 W30 conv, $15000, 713-998-9126
1970 Culass S, $3000, 713-998-9126

Man, I wish I had some cash...does anyone want me to post more of these
ads? Good luck...
BeaTniK

     ------------------------------------------------------------------
     1965 Oldsmobile 98 Town Sedan   TIP # 1048   I Trade Live Concerts
     Always Buying Nirvana Items   MiSTie # 53344       Keep On Skankin
     ------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: ngomez@iadfw.net (Nick Gomez)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 14:20:32 -0400
Subject: Older Car Prices

The prices that were posted here earlier for some older cars seemed very
cheap! For a running car, $500 to $1000 isn't bad!

By the by, I was drifting down this street the other day to go check out a
51 Bel Air (pardon me), and what did I find? It was like a treasure chest,
I also saw an old Mercury (50), a Ford truck from the 40s, and a Hudson
truck! Those are pretty rare around here, Hudsons are really scarce. I know
of one 1952 Hudson Hornet that WAS for sale, and that's about it.

Well, just talking...
BeaTniK

P.S. My valves are finally starting to tap. =(

     ------------------------------------------------------------------
     1965 Oldsmobile 98 Town Sedan   TIP # 1048   I Trade Live Concerts
     Always Buying Nirvana Items   MiSTie # 53344       Keep On Skankin
     ------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: admin@po.cle.ab.com (ccMail SMTPLINK)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 15:26:03 -0400
Subject: ccMail SMTPLINK Undeliverable Message

User Bill.Shinko is not defined

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oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca From: ngomez@iadfw.net (Nick Gomez) Subject: Older
Car Prices Sender: oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca Precedence: bulk Reply-To:
oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca

The prices that were posted here earlier for some older cars seemed very
cheap! For a running car, $500 to $1000 isn't bad!

By the by, I was drifting down this street the other day to go check out a
51 Bel Air (pardon me), and what did I find? It was like a treasure chest,
I also saw an old Mercury (50), a Ford truck from the 40s, and a Hudson
truck! Those are pretty rare around here, Hudsons are really scarce. I know
of one 1952 Hudson Hornet that WAS for sale, and that's about it.

Well, just talking...
BeaTniK

P.S. My valves are finally starting to tap. =(

     ------------------------------------------------------------------
     1965 Oldsmobile 98 Town Sedan   TIP # 1048   I Trade Live Concerts
     Always Buying Nirvana Items   MiSTie # 53344       Keep On Skankin
     ------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: admin@po.cle.ab.com (ccMail SMTPLINK)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 15:39:39 -0400
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User Bill.Shinko is not defined

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text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: 	Sat, 2 Mar 1996 14:20:46 -0400 To:
oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca From: ngomez@iadfw.net (Nick Gomez) Subject: Local
(Texas) Olds' For Sale Sender: oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca

1956 Super 88, $3595, 512-280-7640 or 512-908-5784
1969 Cutlass conv, $5150, 210-493-0430
1950 Rocket 88, $3200, 214-824-6683
1967 Cutlass S, $1000, 713-633-8223
1970 442 W30, $8500, 409-698-9637
1970 442 W30, $5900, 817-572-2924
1970 'Rally' 350, $7000, 713-998-9126
1968 Cutlass S, $7500, 713-440-1998
1963 F85, $5500, 713-575-7649 or 713-904-8934
1969 442 conv, $4995, 409-539-4660 or 409-539-5222
1970 Cutlass conv, $12750, 713-495-6705
1940 70 Series, $8000, 713-466-7179
1964 Jet Star 88, $900, ???-383-2690
1970 442 W30 conv, $15000, 713-998-9126
1970 Culass S, $3000, 713-998-9126

Man, I wish I had some cash...does anyone want me to post more of these
ads? Good luck...
BeaTniK

     ------------------------------------------------------------------
     1965 Oldsmobile 98 Town Sedan   TIP # 1048   I Trade Live Concerts
     Always Buying Nirvana Items   MiSTie # 53344       Keep On Skankin
     ------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: admin@po.cle.ab.com (ccMail SMTPLINK)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 15:40:52 -0400
Subject: ccMail SMTPLINK Undeliverable Message

User Bill.Shinko is not defined

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oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca From: rinacker@voicenet.com (Rich Inacker) Subject:
Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 #106 Sender: oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Precedence: bulk Reply-To: oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca

Charley Buehner (buehner@cis.nmclites.edu) writes:

>While some carb's may be able to produce more power, or at least more
>airflow than some EFI setups, the advantages are there.  The EFI has the
>potential for constant feedback allowing for constant maximum efficiency.

Right. Let's not forget the basics here ! The engine doesn't know or care
what type of induction system is on it. All it knows is air/fuel ratio and
timing. If you get the A/F correct with a carb and the timing is right for
the combo, then the car will run every bit as good as a fuel injected car.
The real advantage of the FI setups is their ability to compensate for
different conditions with variable fuel delivery curves and timing curves.

As far as MAF systems being restirictive, yes that is a concern at some
point, but there are Grand Nationals running in the 11s with stock MAF
sensors.

And what's this about Edelbrock tooling up for Olds aluminum heads ? Anyone
know the timeframe ? Tell me more... :-)

Rich

- -----
rinacker@voicenet.com
http://www.voicenet.com/~rinacker

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 15:41:08 -0400
Subject: Valve lift on my 403; and standards for shop man. specs.

Does anyone know the valve lift from the stock cam on a '78 403?  Where would
that information be available?

I just got the shop manual for this car, and thought it would be in there,
but not for the Olds motors.

Oddly, however, there is the valve lift spec. given for a Chevy motor in its
section, but not for the Olds or Buick motors. I would think there was a
standard set of specs that would be supplied by manufacturers for diagnosis,
but it seems that each maker just included the info *it* thought would be
useful! Though GM used "corporate" motors indiscriminately in those days,
they apparently didn't settle on any standards for this kind of information.

Which would make diagnosis of certain problems depend, more or less, upon
which motor a car had: "Hmm, cam lobe wearing down? Is it an Olds 350, 'cuz
we can't check that... Oh, it's a Chevy 350; *that* we can check!"

------------------------------

From: admin@po.cle.ab.com (ccMail SMTPLINK)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 15:50:00 -0400
Subject: ccMail SMTPLINK Undeliverable Message

User Bill.Shinko is not defined

 Original text follows
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14:41:08 -0500 Date: 	Sat, 2 Mar 1996 15:41:08 -0400 From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Message-ID: <960302144107_235997066@mail02.mail.aol.com> To:
oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca Subject: Valve lift on my 403; and standards for shop
man. specs. Sender: oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca Precedence: bulk Reply-To:
oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca

Does anyone know the valve lift from the stock cam on a '78 403?  Where would
that information be available?

I just got the shop manual for this car, and thought it would be in there,
but not for the Olds motors.

Oddly, however, there is the valve lift spec. given for a Chevy motor in its
section, but not for the Olds or Buick motors. I would think there was a
standard set of specs that would be supplied by manufacturers for diagnosis,
but it seems that each maker just included the info *it* thought would be
useful! Though GM used "corporate" motors indiscriminately in those days,
they apparently didn't settle on any standards for this kind of information.

Which would make diagnosis of certain problems depend, more or less, upon
which motor a car had: "Hmm, cam lobe wearing down? Is it an Olds 350, 'cuz
we can't check that... Oh, it's a Chevy 350; *that* we can check!"

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 16:16:01 -0400
Subject: Re: fuel system

Holley Pro jection and all throttle body injections all share certain
characteristics in common..basically they'll help you out with smoothing
out a lumpy cam and allow easier tuning, but they won't give
you as noticeable of a difference as a port injection from what I hear.
This is due to the "wet manifold" principle, meaning that atomized fuel
still has to travel down the intake manifold.  In a "dry manifold" port
injection, only air need travel though the intake and the fuel gets
injected at the port, so less conventional intake designs may be used
(TPI is a good example!).

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 16:20:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Ideas

Or maybe like Cadillac, Olds spacers will have to go to Fords or
something. hehe the idea being, you'd like to be able to mount factory
style inductions from the more common engines (EFI)..such as Chevies and
Fords..I don't believe Pontiac engines ever came out with fuel injection.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: admin@po.cle.ab.com (ccMail SMTPLINK)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 16:31:54 -0400
Subject: ccMail SMTPLINK Undeliverable Message

User Bill.Shinko is not defined

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Date: 	Sat, 2 Mar 1996 16:20:11 -0400 From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto"
<suntzu@ohana.com> To: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com> cc:
oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca Subject: Re: Ideas In-Reply-To:
<199603011801.NAA18832@infoweb.magi.com> Message-ID:
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oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca

Or maybe like Cadillac, Olds spacers will have to go to Fords or
something. hehe the idea being, you'd like to be able to mount factory
style inductions from the more common engines (EFI)..such as Chevies and
Fords..I don't believe Pontiac engines ever came out with fuel injection.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 16:23:42 -0400
Subject: Re: The Details...

Sure, I'm looking for a low cost alternative to getting an aftermarket
deep sump pan (Milodons seem to be runnig 180 at the cheapest)...let me
know how much you'd like for one and how you'd like to arrange a
purchase, if you wouldnt mind parting with one.  Oh yeah...heres
something you might know that I was wondering.  Does a Toronado pan hold 5
or 6 quarts?  I have two pans now, one with no baffle in it and one with
only a front "slosh guard" baffle with a slightly extended sump...the
former holds 4 quarts at the same level the latter holds 5 quarts.  If
the Toro pan is to be superior to both of these then it would have to
hold 6 quarts...which I figure would be great...

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: admin@po.cle.ab.com (ccMail SMTPLINK)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 16:32:54 -0400
Subject: ccMail SMTPLINK Undeliverable Message

User Bill.Shinko is not defined

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Date: 	Sat, 2 Mar 1996 16:16:01 -0400 From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto"
<suntzu@ohana.com> To: oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca cc: oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: Re: fuel system In-Reply-To:
<199603011439.JAA05457@barracuda.bcinet.net> Message-ID:
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oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca Precedence: bulk Reply-To:
oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca

Holley Pro jection and all throttle body injections all share certain
characteristics in common..basically they'll help you out with smoothing
out a lumpy cam and allow easier tuning, but they won't give
you as noticeable of a difference as a port injection from what I hear.
This is due to the "wet manifold" principle, meaning that atomized fuel
still has to travel down the intake manifold.  In a "dry manifold" port
injection, only air need travel though the intake and the fuel gets
injected at the port, so less conventional intake designs may be used
(TPI is a good example!).

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: admin@po.cle.ab.com (ccMail SMTPLINK)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 16:36:17 -0400
Subject: ccMail SMTPLINK Undeliverable Message

User Bill.Shinko is not defined

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Date: 	Sat, 2 Mar 1996 16:23:42 -0400 From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto"
<suntzu@ohana.com> To: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com> cc:
oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca Subject: Re: The Details... In-Reply-To:
<199603011802.NAA18849@infoweb.magi.com> Message-ID:
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Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender:
oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca Precedence: bulk Reply-To:
oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca

Sure, I'm looking for a low cost alternative to getting an aftermarket
deep sump pan (Milodons seem to be runnig 180 at the cheapest)...let me
know how much you'd like for one and how you'd like to arrange a
purchase, if you wouldnt mind parting with one.  Oh yeah...heres
something you might know that I was wondering.  Does a Toronado pan hold 5
or 6 quarts?  I have two pans now, one with no baffle in it and one with
only a front "slosh guard" baffle with a slightly extended sump...the
former holds 4 quarts at the same level the latter holds 5 quarts.  If
the Toro pan is to be superior to both of these then it would have to
hold 6 quarts...which I figure would be great...

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: Benedict J Raia <br2a+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 17:07:53 -0400
Subject: A hearbreaking moment

Hi, I wish I had better circumstances under which to de-lurk,

After months of devoted service, I think my '77 Delta 88 is about
at the end of it's life - with me anyway.  2 weeks ago it didn't pass
PA safety inspection, and as if by clockwork, the day the sticker
expired (yesterday) the starter stopped working.  I imagine it is a
wiring problem somewhere, as there isn't so much as a "clunk" when I
turn the key, but all the other electrical equipment works fine.  I'd
really like to get underneath and figure out what's up, but I really
don't have the tools or time to play and solve the problem (just got a
new job which is a little more important right now :).  Not to
mention the money either.  I'd like to keep it moving for the next two
weeks until I move into my new apartment, so if anyone can point me in
the direction where I should start looking for a solution, I'd
appreciate it.   Failing that, I'd like to offer it up as a whole or
for parts to anyone who is willing to come get it/them.  It's got a
403 which is pretty strong, although it's very slowly leaking oil
somewhere out of the left side (looking at the front of the car.) I
haven't had the time to figure out exactly where, it's been doing it
since I bought it in August.  One of the cylinders must have bad rings
as it burns some oil and fouls the plug to the point of uselessness
every 6 months.  The major things which cause it to fail safety:

 - drums on both back wheels don't meet regulations
 - horn doesn't work
 - center link (cross link?) in the steering
 - upper left ball joint

With the proper infusion of cash and time I would prefer to do
everything myself and keep it, but as I don't even have a garage it's
really just too much of a hassle, never mind the fact that I actually
need to get to work in it every day :) So I figure someone here could
make better use of it (in whole or in part).  I don't know what any of
it's worth really, so we'll have to talk about it.  BTW, I'm in
Pittsburgh.

Unhappily yours,
Ben Raia
br2a@andrew.cmu.edu
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/andrew/usr14/br2a/www
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/andrew/usr14/br2a/www/delta88



------------------------------

From: admin@po.cle.ab.com (ccMail SMTPLINK)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 17:23:14 -0400
Subject: ccMail SMTPLINK Undeliverable Message

User Bill.Shinko is not defined

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Message-ID: <slC=Wdm00YUq8DSkNa@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: 	Sat, 2 Mar 1996 17:07:53 -0400
From: Benedict J Raia <br2a+@andrew.cmu.edu>
To: oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: A hearbreaking moment
In-Reply-To: <9509268147.AA814729925@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
References: <9509268147.AA814729925@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Sender: oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca

Hi, I wish I had better circumstances under which to de-lurk,

After months of devoted service, I think my '77 Delta 88 is about
at the end of it's life - with me anyway.  2 weeks ago it didn't pass
PA safety inspection, and as if by clockwork, the day the sticker
expired (yesterday) the starter stopped working.  I imagine it is a
wiring problem somewhere, as there isn't so much as a "clunk" when I
turn the key, but all the other electrical equipment works fine.  I'd
really like to get underneath and figure out what's up, but I really
don't have the tools or time to play and solve the problem (just got a
new job which is a little more important right now :).  Not to
mention the money either.  I'd like to keep it moving for the next two
weeks until I move into my new apartment, so if anyone can point me in
the direction where I should start looking for a solution, I'd
appreciate it.   Failing that, I'd like to offer it up as a whole or
for parts to anyone who is willing to come get it/them.  It's got a
403 which is pretty strong, although it's very slowly leaking oil
somewhere out of the left side (looking at the front of the car.) I
haven't had the time to figure out exactly where, it's been doing it
since I bought it in August.  One of the cylinders must have bad rings
as it burns some oil and fouls the plug to the point of uselessness
every 6 months.  The major things which cause it to fail safety:

 - drums on both back wheels don't meet regulations
 - horn doesn't work
 - center link (cross link?) in the steering
 - upper left ball joint

With the proper infusion of cash and time I would prefer to do
everything myself and keep it, but as I don't even have a garage it's
really just too much of a hassle, never mind the fact that I actually
need to get to work in it every day :) So I figure someone here could
make better use of it (in whole or in part).  I don't know what any of
it's worth really, so we'll have to talk about it.  BTW, I'm in
Pittsburgh.

Unhappily yours,
Ben Raia
br2a@andrew.cmu.edu
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/andrew/usr14/br2a/www
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/andrew/usr14/br2a/www/delta88



------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 18:10:18 -0400
Subject: Re: A hearbreaking moment

In a message dated 96-03-02 16:20:50 EST, you write:

>Failing that, I'd like to offer it up as a whole or
>for parts to anyone who is willing to come get it/them.  It's got a
>403 which is pretty strong, although it's very slowly leaking oil
>somewhere out of the left side (looking at the front of the car.) I
>haven't had the time to figure out exactly where, it's been doing it
>since I bought it in August.  One of the cylinders must have bad rings
>as it burns some oil and fouls the plug to the point of uselessness
>every 6 months.  The major things which cause it to fail safety:

Ben,

I've got a 403 with the same cyl. problem (it wouldn't happen to be the #7
Cyl, would it?) that I will be rebuilding this summer. I hear that the '77
blocks are better than the later ones (mine's a '78), and since my car is a
daily driver, rebuilding another motor to install in my car would be
tempting.

The trouble is the distance; I'm in NY, but would want to do the work in
Connecticut. I don't know whether transporting the motor or even the whole
car would be cost-efficient over finding a 403 locally to rebuild.  I have
the AAA Plus plan, which gives me 100 miles of towing before I start to pay,
but that would only get me part-way here, and they'd get suspicious of
repeated calls by the time I got to Scranton. I wonder what a freight company
would charge?

Or you could just put some stamps on the valve cover, write my address as the
return address, and I could deal with it when they return it for
"insufficient postage."

Seriously, I am interested in your 403 (how many miles on it?). What kind of
price were you thinking of?

Or maybe you could jump the terminals on the starter to get it going, and I
would drive all the way back to NY without stopping.

> - drums on both back wheels don't meet regulations
> - horn doesn't work
> - center link (cross link?) in the steering
> - upper left ball joint

Yeah, for about $500 you could get those things fixed; is it worth that much
for you to have a car you can drive?

------------------------------

From: admin@po.cle.ab.com (ccMail SMTPLINK)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 18:19:48 -0400
Subject: ccMail SMTPLINK Undeliverable Message

User Bill.Shinko is not defined

 Original text follows
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2 Mar
1996 18:10:18 -0400 From: Bob0Barry@aol.com Message-ID:
<960302171007_436434931@mail04.mail.aol.com> To: oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca,
br2a@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: A hearbreaking moment Sender:
oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca Precedence: bulk Reply-To:
oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca

In a message dated 96-03-02 16:20:50 EST, you write:

>Failing that, I'd like to offer it up as a whole or
>for parts to anyone who is willing to come get it/them.  It's got a
>403 which is pretty strong, although it's very slowly leaking oil
>somewhere out of the left side (looking at the front of the car.) I
>haven't had the time to figure out exactly where, it's been doing it
>since I bought it in August.  One of the cylinders must have bad rings
>as it burns some oil and fouls the plug to the point of uselessness
>every 6 months.  The major things which cause it to fail safety:

Ben,

I've got a 403 with the same cyl. problem (it wouldn't happen to be the #7
Cyl, would it?) that I will be rebuilding this summer. I hear that the '77
blocks are better than the later ones (mine's a '78), and since my car is a
daily driver, rebuilding another motor to install in my car would be
tempting.

The trouble is the distance; I'm in NY, but would want to do the work in
Connecticut. I don't know whether transporting the motor or even the whole
car would be cost-efficient over finding a 403 locally to rebuild.  I have
the AAA Plus plan, which gives me 100 miles of towing before I start to pay,
but that would only get me part-way here, and they'd get suspicious of
repeated calls by the time I got to Scranton. I wonder what a freight company
would charge?

Or you could just put some stamps on the valve cover, write my address as the
return address, and I could deal with it when they return it for
"insufficient postage."

Seriously, I am interested in your 403 (how many miles on it?). What kind of
price were you thinking of?

Or maybe you could jump the terminals on the starter to get it going, and I
would drive all the way back to NY without stopping.

> - drums on both back wheels don't meet regulations
> - horn doesn't work
> - center link (cross link?) in the steering
> - upper left ball joint

Yeah, for about $500 you could get those things fixed; is it worth that much
for you to have a car you can drive?

------------------------------

From: Benedict J Raia <br2a+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 19:54:31 -0400
Subject: Re: A hearbreaking moment

Bob0Barry@aol.com writes:
> I've got a 403 with the same cyl. problem (it wouldn't happen to be the #7
> Cyl, would it?) that I will be rebuilding this summer. I hear that the '77

If you're standing in front of the car looking at it, it's on the
right, second from the front.

> blocks are better than the later ones (mine's a '78), and since my car is a
> daily driver, rebuilding another motor to install in my car would be
> tempting.

I wasn't even aware that 78s had 403s.

> Seriously, I am interested in your 403 (how many miles on it?). What kind of
> price were you thinking of?

The car has got 90K on it.  The engine is original, the tranny is not.
Most of the body is undented, although there is some rust and the
paint is peeling in spots.  I haven't really had time to think about a
price yet, I'll let ya know.

> Or maybe you could jump the terminals on the starter to get it going, and I
> would drive all the way back to NY without stopping.

If I could get it started, I would have no problem at all driving it
to NY (I'm originally from Long Island, in fact I was planning to make
the trip at the end of March anyway).  I'd take it to Connecticut too
if you'd drop me off at a Metro North station somewhere.

> Yeah, for about $500 you could get those things fixed; is it worth that much
> for you to have a car you can drive?

I really like the car - except for the odd paralyzing problem every 6
months :) it's pretty reliable.  The problems as I see them:

1.  I use it to drive around town in Pittsburgh - hilly and a healthy
number of traffic lights - so on a good week I get 10 mpg.  It doesn't
help that I have a pretty heavy foot :)  I guess I really need a Civic
or something :P eeew...forget I said that :)

2.  The garage of the place I live now is too small to fit the car :)
I'm moving to an apartment building around the corner from the office
which has no garage at all. Not really equipped to do any work on the
car there, plus I can just walk to work now.

So anyway, I'll get back to you with price stuff in a bit.

Ben
br2a@andrew.cmu.edu




Ben Raia
br2a@andrew.cmu.edu, http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/andrew/usr14/br2a/www/
1977 Olds Delta 88

------------------------------

From: admin@po.cle.ab.com (ccMail SMTPLINK)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 20:19:43 -0400
Subject: ccMail SMTPLINK Undeliverable Message

User Bill.Shinko is not defined

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Date: 	Sat, 2 Mar 1996 19:54:31 -0400
From: Benedict J Raia <br2a+@andrew.cmu.edu>
To: oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca, Bob0Barry@aol.com
Subject: Re: A hearbreaking moment
In-Reply-To: <960302171007_436434931@mail04.mail.aol.com>
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Bob0Barry@aol.com writes:
> I've got a 403 with the same cyl. problem (it wouldn't happen to be the #7
> Cyl, would it?) that I will be rebuilding this summer. I hear that the '77

If you're standing in front of the car looking at it, it's on the
right, second from the front.

> blocks are better than the later ones (mine's a '78), and since my car is a
> daily driver, rebuilding another motor to install in my car would be
> tempting.

I wasn't even aware that 78s had 403s.

> Seriously, I am interested in your 403 (how many miles on it?). What kind of
> price were you thinking of?

The car has got 90K on it.  The engine is original, the tranny is not.
Most of the body is undented, although there is some rust and the
paint is peeling in spots.  I haven't really had time to think about a
price yet, I'll let ya know.

> Or maybe you could jump the terminals on the starter to get it going, and I
> would drive all the way back to NY without stopping.

If I could get it started, I would have no problem at all driving it
to NY (I'm originally from Long Island, in fact I was planning to make
the trip at the end of March anyway).  I'd take it to Connecticut too
if you'd drop me off at a Metro North station somewhere.

> Yeah, for about $500 you could get those things fixed; is it worth that much
> for you to have a car you can drive?

I really like the car - except for the odd paralyzing problem every 6
months :) it's pretty reliable.  The problems as I see them:

1.  I use it to drive around town in Pittsburgh - hilly and a healthy
number of traffic lights - so on a good week I get 10 mpg.  It doesn't
help that I have a pretty heavy foot :)  I guess I really need a Civic
or something :P eeew...forget I said that :)

2.  The garage of the place I live now is too small to fit the car :)
I'm moving to an apartment building around the corner from the office
which has no garage at all. Not really equipped to do any work on the
car there, plus I can just walk to work now.

So anyway, I'll get back to you with price stuff in a bit.

Ben
br2a@andrew.cmu.edu




Ben Raia
br2a@andrew.cmu.edu, http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/andrew/usr14/br2a/www/
1977 Olds Delta 88

------------------------------

From: FREDALL@aol.com
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 21:07:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Ideas Pontiac FI

The 1957 Pontiac Bonnie came with Fuel Injection. It was the only Pontiac
that did in that era.   Fred Allard    fredall@AOL.com     1957 Super 88

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #107
********************************
