
oldsmobile-digest          Monday, 22 April 1996       Volume 01 : Number 155


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 17:53:17 -0300
Subject: Re: Cassette

What about Jerry was a Racecar Driver by Primus?  Might not be one of 
the all time classics but it does make mention of Jerry driving a 442 
and he "used to light em up just for fun".

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 10:50:42 -0300
Subject: Re[6]: 455 Valve Job 

     Okay, I'm all cleared up now.  I thought we were talking about 
     shortening the valves because you decked the heads, not because of a 
     valve job.  I can see how you'd need to shorten the valves after a 
     valve job, but after decking the heads?  I think you can see where my 
     confusion came from.
     
     I'm all better now, really!

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Re[4]: 455 Valve Job
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    4/20/96 9:20 PM


Tom,
     
     I tend to agree with you at this point Tom. Your arguement is 
     convincing and cogent. However, I also see a realationship  in the 
     distance change betwewen the pushrods, lifters, and ultimately the 
     valve stem as the valve is stationary relative to the block. The 
     difference between the valve and the seat DOES  change because the 
     seat is ground down....right?   The valve, now 

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 18:28:08 -0300
Subject: Re: Cassette

>         I'm taping myself a couple of cassette tapes for the cars this
> summer and I'd like to focus on great CAR songs.  So far, all I've come up
> with is:
> 
>         Queen - I'm in Love with my Car
>         Deep Purple - Highway Star
> 
> Any other idea's?
> 
> __________________________________________________
> S.G. Hartfelder         '38 Oldsmobile Street Rod
> Edmonton, AB  CANADA    '76 Camaro
> Stanh@compusmart.ab.ca		
> __________________________________________________

There are an awful lot of car songs out there.  You could probably
put together a tape just of Beach Boys car songs.  And great songs
are in the ear of the... uhh... belistener?

So, I'll just throw out some titles...

Pink Cadillac, Cadillac Ranch, Thunder Road, etc... - Bruce Springsteen
Hot Rod Lincoln - Commander Cody and The Lost Planet Airmen
Roadrunner - ???
Long May You Run - Neil Young
Jesus Built My Hot Rod - Ministry???
Fast Car - Tracy Chapman
Theme from Speed Racer - Butthole Surfers
Bitchen' Camaro - ???

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-8007    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: "Dink" <heinle@jake.udayton.edu>
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 19:43:45 -0300
Subject: Re: Cassette

> Bitchen' Camaro - ???

Who else but "The Dead MilkMan"  This is about 8 years old, and it 
was pretty bad.

Dink

Dink           Dayton, Ohio
80 Olds Delta 88 Royale  MSD, K&N, etc..
http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
Computer Information Systems Major @ UD =:)

------------------------------

From: Clas Sundgren <clas.sundgren@mbox200.swipnet.se>
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 00:41:58 -0300
Subject: MadSwede again

Ladies first !
Thanks for the info Sherry
Well, if I say beeing owner of an older US-car here in
Sweden is a troublefree situation that is telling a lie,
but not so hard as it may seem. We have a rahter god stock
of older cars "on our side" and for instance a very own
Swedish Oldsmobile Club with approx. 300 members (mostly
Cutlass and 442) so you see Im not all alone. By the way,
2 members running Super88 -55 ! And now for the "snail-mail"
adress: (of course I would like your nice offer)

  Clas Sundgren            Hope to "hear" from you again !
  Mastvagen 8                       
  746 32 Balsta                    
  Sweden


And now for Mike in Tampa !

Hi Mike
Im not an expert on injekted Volvos of that age myself
(rahter odd stuff) but I may help you anyway. I have told
my old buddy at the local Volvo workshop about your problems
and he made a promise to do some research on the subjekt.
So just hold on, I will be back !

MadSwede Clas  (Nice place Florida, I visited -83)

                   "See you later alligator"      

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 11:20:41 -0300
Subject: Re: MadSwede again

Clas Sundgren wrote:
> 
> ...very own Swedish Oldsmobile Club with approx. 300 members...


Amazing!  

Hey, Clas!  
You guys coming to the 100th Anniversary?  
You gotta bring the meatballs.      ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 11:04:35 -0300
Subject: Re: 

Daniel Houlton wrote:
> 
> test

You pass.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 20:50:46 -0300
Subject: Re: Cassette

On Sun, 21 Apr 1996, SG Hartfelder wrote:

>         I'm taping myself a couple of cassette tapes for the cars this
> summer and I'd like to focus on great CAR songs.  So far, all I've come up
> with is:
> 
>         Queen - I'm in Love with my Car
>         Deep Purple - Highway Star
> 
> Any other idea's?
> 
> __________________________________________________
> S.G. Hartfelder         '38 Oldsmobile Street Rod
> Edmonton, AB  CANADA    '76 Camaro
> Stanh@compusmart.ab.ca		
> __________________________________________________
> 
> 
> 
Others have already responded, but I'll give it a try, too.



By the Beach Boys:

Little Deuce Coupe
Fun, Fun, Fun
I Get Around
Help me, Rhonda
Shut Down
409


By Jan & Dean:
Drag City
Dead Man's Curve
The Little Old Lady (From Pasadena)


Others:
Little Honda - The Hondells (later redone by the Beach Boys)
G.T.O. - Ronny and The Daytonas
Beep Beep - Playmates (from 1958, the Little Nash Rambler song)



There are lots of others.  But any of the above is guaranteed to get me 
to stop talking and turn up the radio.



Dan Gulino

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 21:43:46 -0300
Subject: exhaust manifold

Hey all,

I need a left (driver) side exhaust manifold for a 69 350...anything from a
64-67 330 or 68-72 350 will work...

Thanks.
- --
Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 22:23:55 -0300
Subject: Re: New finds, etc.

At 10:21 AM 4/21/96 -0300, you wrote:
 and backless bucket seat cores for
>cheap. 
>
>Got a 69-70 front bumper, 71-2 rear bumper, Toro oil pan, and a bucket full o'
>misc. pcs. all for $115! 

>Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
>wittchri@pilot.msu.edu
>
>
What are the seat cores goin' for?  Any interest in sellin' that 69 front
bumper or the Toro oil pan?
- --
Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Tony <3CQ9DELBALSO@vms.csd.mu.edu>
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 22:45:09 -0300
Subject: 350 Problems

HI,

Well, I have been trying for 2 weeks to get the new 350 running in my 84
cutlass.  I have run into many problems, some have been fixed and some have
temporary fixes (I am moving next Saturday, and don't want to have the car
towed).  I just ran across a problem I can't figure out.

Here it is, Everything bolted up well, the block to mounts to frame, and the
tranny to the tranny mount.  The driveshaft went into the tranny just as far as
it did with the 307, so the motor seems to be located correctly from front to
back.  But, when I got all the accessories on today, and tried to put on the
power steering pump, I found the pulley was too close to the power steering box
and the belt won't fit through the space.  Also, my adjustment has been cut
down quite a bit.  The pump and mounting bracket worked on the 307 2 weeks ago,
I haven't had this problem before.  I thought all the blocks were the same, but
now I wonder if the mount bolt holes are farther up on the block, causing the
motor to sit too low for this car.  If anyone has run into this before, or has
information regarding mounting holes in the blocks, please let me know.  I
don't know how to solve this problem.  I am going to the store tomorrow to see
if 73 mounts are taller (that is the year of the 350).  If they are, I am going
to try to replace them, without unbolting everything (took a full day and a
half last time).  I would really appreciate some knowledgable help with this
problem.  Thanks in advance.

Tony
 PS.  To the guy who recomended placing a socket on the flexplate bolt with a
short extension in order to tighten the balancer bolt:  Thanks a lot, it worked
great, I used a 1 inch extension and had no problems.  Terrific idea!!

Thanks again

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 22:52:16 -0300
Subject: Re: Cassette 

At 18.28 04,21,96 -0300, you wrote:
>>         I'm taping myself a couple of cassette tapes for the cars this
>> summer and I'd like to focus on great CAR songs.  So far, all I've come up
>> with is:
>> 

>Bitchen' Camaro - ???
>

this song is by the Dead Milkmen...the drummer went to my high school, and
his dad taught me in history class...
for a fun car song...check out ODE TO MY CAR, by Adam Sandler, on his newer
album...
                    zack

>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -----
>Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
      ___
     /. .\
    _\_*_/_                     -<Buddha>-
   / /   \ \                   Buddha@itw.com
   \_\___/_/            HTTP://www2.itw.com/~buddha/
  /___\_/___\ "That which does not kill us makes us stronger"
 *************

------------------------------

From: Tony <3CQ9DELBALSO@vms.csd.mu.edu>
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 22:58:00 -0300
Subject: Q-jet leak

Hi,

I don;t know much about carbs, but I am trying to get a 350 running in my 84
cutlass.  I took the 73 carb from the 350 in to be rebuilt.  I mentioned to the
guy that I heard they had a tendency to leak from the throttle shafts, he said
he hadn't heard of that happening.  I read it in Hot Rod, and thought maybe
they were trying to plug Holley.  Anyway, I have the carb hooked up to a motor
not running yet, the carb shop guy said the tube sticking out of the top of the
carb towards the front leads to the float bowl and that I could put gas in
there to fill the carb, hoping the engine would fire quickly.  I put fuel into
this hole today, and it leaked out at the throttle shaft, as well as coming up
out of the accelerator pump.  I think it came out the the accel puump because I
probably put too much gas in.  But a lot came out of the throttle shaft, ate
away a section of my new gold paint on the intake!  Now, when I push down on
the accel pump, no gas is squirted out (into the holes, front 2 barrels).  I
would think that if the float bowl was full, gas should squirt into the holes
leading to thhe intake, since it doesn't i must assume all the gas leaked out
the throttle shaft.  Anyone with carb exp, what do I do?  Will it run?  Should
I bring it back (I can't bring it in the car, they won't touch it then because
of emmissions) ?  HELP!!!
Tony

------------------------------

From: "Dink" <heinle@jake.udayton.edu>
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 02:05:38 -0300
Subject: Hot Rod Power Tour

Is any body going on the Power Tour this year?  Will anybody be at the 
Power festival in Norwalk, Ohio?  Norwalk is south of Toledo, for you 
out of staters.  It's only about 40 min from my house so I plan on 
going to it.  I didn't go last year, but it's suppose to be very 
large, and have lots of cars.  Porbably lots of chevy's and stuff.  
I'll be there with my dad in his 95 Firebird Formula, call me a 
trader but I think some people from the f-Body list are going to be 
there also.

The festival is at Norwalk Raceway Park, on May 18th, 19th.
Check out http://www.goracing.com/norwalk/ for details and 
directions, or just ask me.

Later,
   Dink

Dink           Dayton, Ohio
80 Olds Delta 88 Royale  MSD, K&N, etc..
http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
Computer Information Systems Major @ UD =:)

------------------------------

From: "Peg O'Connor" <peg@grove.ufl.EDU>
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 02:27:30 -0300
Subject: Re: Cassette

> >        I'm taping myself a couple of cassette tapes for the cars this
> >summer and I'd like to focus on great CAR songs.  So far, all I've come up
> >with is:
> >
> >        Queen - I'm in Love with my Car
> >        Deep Purple - Highway Star
> >
> >Any other idea's?

"Cars" by Gary Numan
"My Merry Oldsmobile" -- isn't that the title?  Don't know who did it.

------------------------------

From: "Peg O'Connor" <peg@grove.ufl.EDU>
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 02:30:11 -0300
Subject: Re: Cassette

> Pink Cadillac, Cadillac Ranch, Thunder Road, etc... - Bruce Springsteen
> Hot Rod Lincoln - Commander Cody and The Lost Planet Airmen
> Roadrunner - ???
> Long May You Run - Neil Young
> Jesus Built My Hot Rod - Ministry???
> Fast Car - Tracy Chapman
> Theme from Speed Racer - Butthole Surfers
> Bitchen' Camaro - ???

and Thunder Kiss '65 and Black Sunshine by White Zombie.  Well, Black 
Sunshine mentions a M*stang, but it's still cool.

------------------------------

From: "Peg O'Connor" <peg@grove.ufl.EDU>
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 02:33:41 -0300
Subject: Olds History Center

Does the Olds History Center have e-mail?  That would certainly be 
quicker than writing them to request info about cars.

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 09:33:33 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: valley tray 

The last line says it all. Aluminum intakes will leak with the stock valley 
pan.                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
          
I've had no trouble using the stock valley pan 
with either cast iron or aluminum intakes 
(factory or aftermarket).  The last line was 
only a comment on the backbreaking task of 
installing the 8 ton cast intake.


          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30
          
          

------------------------------

From: jsmith@radware.net (James Smith)
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 09:48:11 -0300
Subject: RE: Q-jet leak

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB3020.597D6F20
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

yes all carbs will leak from the throttle shafts if thay are old and =
worn but the problem can be fixed by putting a bushing. as for the =
accelerator pump it did not get put on right or the diaphragm is broke. =
I would take it back and tell them what you told us and if thay cant fix =
it the I would start looking some wear else because thay are not to =
sharp.=20

- ----------
From: 	Tony[SMTP:3CQ9DELBALSO@vmsa.csd.mu.edu]
Sent: 	Sunday, April 21, 1996 8:58 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Q-jet leak

Hi,

I don;t know much about carbs, but I am trying to get a 350 running in =
my 84
cutlass.  I took the 73 carb from the 350 in to be rebuilt.  I mentioned =
to the
guy that I heard they had a tendency to leak from the throttle shafts, =
he said
he hadn't heard of that happening.  I read it in Hot Rod, and thought =
maybe
they were trying to plug Holley.  Anyway, I have the carb hooked up to a =
motor
not running yet, the carb shop guy said the tube sticking out of the top =
of the
carb towards the front leads to the float bowl and that I could put gas =
in
there to fill the carb, hoping the engine would fire quickly.  I put =
fuel into
this hole today, and it leaked out at the throttle shaft, as well as =
coming up
out of the accelerator pump.  I think it came out the the accel puump =
because I
probably put too much gas in.  But a lot came out of the throttle shaft, =
ate
away a section of my new gold paint on the intake!  Now, when I push =
down on
the accel pump, no gas is squirted out (into the holes, front 2 =
barrels).  I
would think that if the float bowl was full, gas should squirt into the =
holes
leading to thhe intake, since it doesn't i must assume all the gas =
leaked out
the throttle shaft.  Anyone with carb exp, what do I do?  Will it run?  =
Should
I bring it back (I can't bring it in the car, they won't touch it then =
because
of emmissions) ?  HELP!!!
Tony




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------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 09:44:03 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Troubleshooting points 

          
          
I don't think they used fusible links back then; my 69 Cutlass has none. 
                                                    ^^^^^^^^^^
          
          Yes it does!  It will be in one of the wires attached to the 
          horn relay on the driver's side inner fender.  I blew one 
          out in a big way when one of the battery cables in my first 
          68 442 melted down on the headers...  always put that 
          phenolic tube holder for the battery cable back in place!
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/0
          70 W-30    
          

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 09:53:06 -0300
Subject: Belated intro 

          
          Ok, I've been a participant for several weeks now, but also 
          didn't know about the introduction ritual, so...
          
          I live in the DC area, having moved to Northern Viginia in 
          87 after living in the LA area for seven years.  I'm a 
          program manager for an aerospace company, Orbital Sciences 
          Corp (http://www.orbital.com/ - check out the Taurus launch 
          vehicle) and have owned at least one 442 since I could 
          drive.  I currently have the 66 convertible (currently 
          stripped to the bare shell awaiting a frame-off resto and 
          the installation of an L-69 tri-carb setup), the 68 W-30 
          (also in need of resto, but with all the toys and 27,000 
          original miles), the 69 H/O, and the 70 W-30.  Both the 68 
          and the 70 are 4-spd cars, and the 66 will be soon.  I used 
          to have a 71 Cutlass with a fiberglass tilt front, roll bar, 
          and 462 Olds with dual quads and nitrous (11.95 @ 115.5 
          mph), but the ex got that one.  Check out the October 1985 
          issue of Car Craft for a picture.
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 10:03:42 -0300
Subject: Re: valley gasket 

          Sorry Chris, you are correct.  It's been a while since I've 
          had to pull an intake.  The memory is the second thing to 
          go... I can't remember the first.
          
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 10:11:14 -0300
Subject: Re: Cassette 

        I'm taping myself a couple of cassette tapes for the cars this
          summer and I'd like to focus on great CAR songs. 
                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
          
          Where to start....
          
          Besides the obvious Beach Boys, how about 
          
          Jan and Dean - Drag City (especially like the stereo effect 
          as the car does a burnout from the right speaker to the 
          left... or is that left to right... let me go back and check 
          that wiring on the speakers...)
          Ronnie and the Daytonas - Little GTO
          Wilson Picket - Mustang Sally
          ???(help me out here) - Hey Little Cobra
          
          
          While not technically a car song, the all time best late 
          night high speed driving song has got to be Radar Love, by 
          Golden Earring (also one of the all time one-hit wonder 
          bands).
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: Tony Molinaro <bakereng.com!AMOLINARO@bakereng.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 10:47:07 -0300
Subject: Any New Members on the List? -Reply 

Hello,

I have been part of this list for a month, and have found it to be very
informative and educational. Here are my Oldsmobile interests:

1. 1969 442/400/400

This car was bought by my parents for my brothers new.  Still have the
protecto plate. I didnt get a hold of if unitl the late 70's. It sat in my parents
barn for the last 10 years. It has 130,000 original miles. I did replace the
cam, valve job at 110,000 miles. Original engine and tranny. The car is on
the verge of being a basketcase, but I can not bring myself to getting rid
of it. My plan is to rebuild it with my son who will be one in June. Very
long term project.

2. 1969 442 455/4spd.

I was planning on rebuilding car 1 sooner but this car came up. The car
needs some TLC and it will be in good shape. I bought it from a guy I dont
think was the best mechanic in the world and some things need to be
made right. I thought the car had some unique qualities and was the
reason I bought it. The qualities are as follows:

 a. 455 F block bored +.030,w/ HEI 
 b. The car came with "B" heads
 c. Borg-Warner T10 tranny
 d. Ralleye Pack dash (Tach and clock work)
 e. Remote Trunk release(does not work)
 f. Original wheels (rough shape)
 g. 70 Ram-air hood ( Yellow Paint can be seen under new paint)
 h. Orginal 69 hood

Does anyone have any opinion on the "B" heads bolted on to a 455. 

Does anyone have any opinion on getting traction on these cars. 

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 09:59:49 -0300
Subject: Re: Cassette

I've recorded a coupla cassettes m'self, expressly for play in the ol'
ragtop... hence their titles of 'Top-Down Music', 'Son of Top-Down Music',
etc... some of the songs in this thread appear on the tapes most notably
the Beach Boys and Springsteen songs listed... but here are a coupla
other car songs:

'Black Cars'   -- Gino Vanelli (was my old Fiat 124's theme song :) )
'The Car Song' -- Elastica


P.S.  Pulled Big Red outta storage yesterday... fired right up!  Only took
      a short drive to blow all the ATF outta the cylinders (tried that this
      year instead of Marvel Mystery Oil)... was kinda lame driving around
      w/o inner door panels (or the speakers that go in them, couldn't 
      listen to the aforementioned tapes -- I'm in the process of putting new
      vinyl in.


Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'88 Cadillac Brougham, a.k.a. 'Big Blue' -- Olds 307 Powered!!
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: Doug Ahern <doug@cobra.cosmic.uga.edu>
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 10:04:34 -0300
Subject: Re: Jetaway Power Capacity?

> Anyone have any advice re. the power capacity of a Jetaway trans? In 
> discussing whether or not to change the cam on my '68 350, the question 
> came up as to whether the trans would be able to handle the extra power 
> for very long. 
> 
> How much can one of these reliably take? Should I forget the whole thing?

the power increases from a cam change won't hurt the 2speed.  Remember
they put this trans behind 4-4-2 400's.  Unless you dropping in a 455,
or your 350 sees a lot of strip duty, don't worry about it. 

If you are looking for more low end power/trottle response, you ought
to consider getting a BOP th350 out of a junkyard.  I did this swap
on my 64 330, and the difference that 3rd gear makes is incredible, its
much fast getting out of the hole, plus you have a more capable passing
gear.

Doug Ahern      doug@cosmic.uga.edu  1964 F-85 Cutlass 
http://www.cosmic.uga.edu/doug.html  1969 Dart 
Sys Admin, COSMIC, Univ. of Georgia  1974 Satellite ex-cop car

------------------------------

From: tmorris@BT1DC18E.bet.ibm.com
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 10:49:59 -0300
Subject: Carlisle Review 

Went to Carlisle this past Friday.  Always a lot of fun.  This time there 
seemed to be a surplus of show quality Olds, not as many nice drivers as 
before.  Here's a list:

1970 w30 auto, $15,000
1970 W30 4 sp, 17,000 >>>>my dream car
   above cars were restored, absolutely flawless
1970 Cutlass, 5400, low miles
1967/68 98 conv. 12,500- not restored but beautiful and seemed to be 30' long
1965 442 4sp, 12,500 - very nice but even so, about 4k too high in my view
1968 98 2 dr - 9500, clean and nice
1967 442 auto 9500, clean but fairly unremarkable
1968 442 auto 12,500 - restored and trick hood vents but still 12.5K????
1965 442 conv 4sp, 9800 - nice but the engine had sm block heads (#2) so who 
knows what he was running.


Sorry, I didn't think to get phone numbers for any of these cars.  My general 
view of Carlisle is that it seems to be the place to get a wide selection of 
cars, usually in very good condition but NOT the place for good deals.


Todd Morris
just a bit discouraged I didn't find my 442 4 sp driver at Carlisle

------------------------------

From: Tony Molinaro <bakereng.com!AMOLINARO@bakereng.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 11:43:16 -0300
Subject: Any New Members on the List? -Reply 

Hello,

I have been part of this list for a month, and have found it to be very
informative and educational. Here are my Oldsmobile interests:

1. 1969 442/400/400

This car was bought by my parents for my brothers new.  Still have the
protecto plate. I didnt get a hold of if unitl the late 70's. It sat in my parents
barn for the last 10 years. It has 130,000 original miles. I did replace the
cam, valve job at 110,000 miles. Original engine and tranny. The car is on
the verge of being a basketcase, but I can not bring myself to getting rid
of it. My plan is to rebuild it with my son who will be one in June. Very
long term project.

2. 1969 442 455/4spd.

I was planning on rebuilding car 1 sooner but this car came up. The car
needs some TLC and it will be in good shape. I bought it from a guy I dont
think was the best mechanic in the world and some things need to be
made right. I thought the car had some unique qualities and was the
reason I bought it. The qualities are as follows:

 a. 455 F block bored +.030,w/ HEI 
 b. The car came with "B" heads
 c. Borg-Warner T10 tranny
 d. Ralleye Pack dash (Tach and clock work)
 e. Remote Trunk release(does not work)
 f. Original wheels (rough shape)
 g. 70 Ram-air hood ( Yellow Paint can be seen under new paint)
 h. Orginal 69 hood

Does anyone have any opinion on the "B" heads bolted on to a 455. 

Does anyone have any opinion on getting traction on these cars. 

Tony Molinaro
amolinaro@bakereng.com
412-269-6312

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 11:24:06 -0300
Subject: Philosphical Question (was Re: Cassette) 

This talk of car songs for the road has me thinking.

There's nothing like cruising around town with the top down
and the radio playing.  I'd like to play cassettes, but my
'75 has its original, factory installed, still-works-like-new
AM/FM/8-track.  I can still find old 8-track tapes at
garage sales and flea markets, but I'm of course limited to
whatever was recorded when 8-tracks were in vogue 20 years
ago.  And I can't record or buy anything new.  Plus, these
tapes are 20-25 years old and usually break after two or
three playings.

So I can't play any cassettes in the car.  I know that they
used to make these inserts that would allow you to play 
a cassette in an 8-track player, but I haven't been able
to find one at a garage sale, and the local Radio Shack
says that they don't sell such an item any more.

I'm tempted to pull the radio and install something more
modern (my son still can't get used to the idea of a little
red pointer that moves to indicate the station...ahh youth),
but I'm afraid I'll destroy the originality.  I've had people
tell me that they can't find an original 8-track to
put in their car to complete a correct restoration, and one
guy told me he had to pay $500 for a non-working one and
then pay some more to get it fixed.

So for originality's sake, I want to leave it in the car.

But for ENJOYMENT'S sake, I'd like to pull it out (and 
set it carefully aside should I ever want to make the car
completely correct again) and put in a modern AM/FM/cassette.

I'll lose a few points at the local car show (if the judges
actually look that close...you never know), but at least I'll
enjoy it more getting to and from the car show.


What would YOU do???



************************************************
Daniel A. Gulino
Associate Professor and Graduate Chairman
Department of Chemical Engineering
Ohio University
Athens, Ohio  45701-2979
(614) 593-1495
(614) 593-0873 (fax)
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://www.ent.ohiou.edu/che/faculty/gulino.html
************************************************

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 10:42:23 -0300
Subject: Re: Cassette 

>        I'm taping myself a couple of cassette tapes for the cars this
>summer and I'd like to focus on great CAR songs.  So far, all I've come up
>with is:
>
>        Queen - I'm in Love with my Car
>        Deep Purple - Highway Star

Wheeee! The contest for Longest Followup Thread of 1996 is now over! Okay,
I'll throw in additional votes for Radar Love (two votes; I can do this
because I'm from Chicago), but also, who says a good car song has to 
mention a car? I can think of lots of songs that are good to listen to 
when _driving_, regardless of whether or not they have brand names. Just 
two to start with here:

"Birdland" by Weather Report, off their "Heavy Weather" album
"School" by Supertramp, from "Crime of the Century"

...okay, three:

"Long Time" by Boston (first album)

...er, four:

"Ah Via Musicon" (sp???), whatever the first long instrumental cut is
called, by Eric Johnson

...okay, five:

"Lake Shore Drive"; Alliotta, Haynes & Jerehiam; yes, it is available
on CD but only a really good record store can find it... :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Bruce D. Brumm" <bdbrumm@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 14:41:26 -0300
Subject: Synthetic Oils...

Anyone out there using synthetic motor oil in Oldsmobiles or others?
Any benefits, etc?  I am using a partial synthetic from Mobil in my
'86 Salon (307).  Anyone recommend a full synthetic?  Cost is not really
an issue, either.  Any takers? Anyone?

- -- 

Bruce D. Brumm (bdbrumm@ix.netcom.com)
Network & Systems Administrator
LDM Technologies, Inc.
Troy, MI

'84 Cutlass Supreme 307-Y
'86 Cutlass Salon 307-Y

------------------------------

From: Travis McWaters <travism@utdallas.edu> 
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 12:03:40 -0300
Subject: Re: Philosphical Question (was Re: Cassette) 

Daniel Gulino writes:
> I'd like to play cassettes, but my '75 has its original, 
> factory installed, still-works-like-new AM/FM/8-track.  
... 
> What would YOU do???

One alternative is to leave the original radio in place and put 
your "new" radio in the glove box or somewhere else out of sight.  
I had a friend that did this more to hide his expensive radio than 
to keep an "orignal" look, but it worked out fairly well.  The down 
side is that you'll probably have to get the passenger to work 
the new radio.  

I've also heard of people getting new radio guts hidden behind 
original radio controls.  This us usually done when you find an
original radio that's dead anyway.  Since yours works, I wouldn't
suggest this.  

My solution for a long time in a car that never had a radio to begin
with was to just carry a ~$40 portable radio on the car with me.  
I kept meaning to wire up something so that it could run off the 
car's power but I ended up feeding it lots of batteries instead.
If you or someone you know is reasonably smart with electricity,
this wouldn't be much of a problem to do with the right radio 
(ie one that will easily take DC input instead of AC).

- -- Travis

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 11:01:19 -0300
Subject: Re: Philosphical Question (was Re: Cassette) 

>There's nothing like cruising around town with the top down
>and the radio playing.  I'd like to play cassettes, but my
>'75 has its original, factory installed, still-works-like-new
>AM/FM/8-track.  I can still find old 8-track tapes at
>garage sales and flea markets, but I'm of course limited to
>whatever was recorded when 8-tracks were in vogue 20 years
>ago.

Well, not necessarily... see below...

>And I can't record or buy anything new.

Well, not necessarily... see below...

>So I can't play any cassettes in the car.  I know that they
>used to make these inserts that would allow you to play 
>a cassette in an 8-track player, but I haven't been able
>to find one at a garage sale, and the local Radio Shack
>says that they don't sell such an item any more.

Jeez, last time I looked, Radio Shack was still selling Pong games; I'm
amazed whenever I hear that they've discontinued _anything_ in there.
Anyway, keep hitting garage sales every weekend, and sooner or later,
probably sooner is my guess, you will find one of those 8-track adaptors.
Audiovox used to make them by the truckload.

>I'm tempted to pull the radio and install something more
>modern (my son still can't get used to the idea of a little
>red pointer that moves to indicate the station...ahh youth),
>but I'm afraid I'll destroy the originality.  I've had people
>tell me that they can't find an original 8-track to
>put in their car to complete a correct restoration, and one
>guy told me he had to pay $500 for a non-working one and
>then pay some more to get it fixed.

I think your $500 friend got ripped, but in any event, you might look
into whether there was a 1975 cassette deck available for your car,
first of all. (Anyone?) If so, it will be a bolt-in, plug-in swap.

>So for originality's sake, I want to leave it in the car.
>
>But for ENJOYMENT'S sake, I'd like to pull it out (and 
>set it carefully aside should I ever want to make the car
>completely correct again) and put in a modern AM/FM/cassette.

Should you do that, it will unplug in back, and you can buy adaptor
harnesses for the new stereo which will mate with the dash harness
plugs so that you don't have to cut any factory wires or connectors.
Yes, Radio Shack has those too.

>I'll lose a few points at the local car show (if the judges
>actually look that close...you never know), but at least I'll
>enjoy it more getting to and from the car show.
>
>What would YOU do???

All that aside, I happen to have a _recording_ 8-track deck carefully
stashed in my basement; I nabbed it for $5 at a garage sale and it
worked fine the last time I tried it. I forget the brand, but it looks
pretty well put together, needle-type VU meters, etc.

Now then, if there's interest, I can drag it out of the basement and
see if it still works. If so, I'll be happy to make recordings for
anyone who sends me an 8-track cassette and the source they want
transferred (cassette, CD, phono, videotape). If I recall right, there's
no reason why I can't record over an old pre-recorded 8-track you don't
want (e.g. "The Best of Slim Whitman" :-) if necessary. You pay postage
both ways, that's all; Email me and we can work out fine points.

There is a slight extra charge for handling Slim Whitman tapes...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 11:04:29 -0300
Subject: Re: Cassette 

>"Lake Shore Drive"; Alliotta, Haynes & Jerehiam; yes, it is available
>on CD but only a really good record store can find it... :-)

...especially when I misspell it to begin with; that should be Jeremiah,
of course...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 11:09:56 -0300
Subject: Re: Synthetic Oils... 

>Anyone out there using synthetic motor oil in Oldsmobiles or others?
>Any benefits, etc?

In an area of temperature extremes, especially cold ones, a synthetic
might help startup and cold running quite a bit. I understand the 
synthetics are a lot better at maintaining their viscosity over temperature
range. But prompt, frequent oil changes and checking to ensure that the oil
level is up where it should be are more likely to get you long engine life,
regardless of whether you've got dinosaur juice or synthetic in there. Just
my $.02...

Related question: Any way to tell from inspection whether the oil already
in the engine is organic or synthetic? I wondered that when doing the first
oil change in my new (recent-used-purchase) car. If I'd known for sure that
the car had been running synthetic when I bought it, I'd have put that in.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: MIKE COCCAGNA <mikec@pop.kis.net>
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 13:21:40 -0300
Subject: Re: Synthetic Oils...

Bruce, 

I have been using Mobil1 for the past 45k miles in my Quad442.  This 
is a stressed out engine that does lots of high revs.  I have had no 
problems with the oil that I can directly attribute to it and gas 
milage and peppiness seems to have increased slightly.  One thing to 
take into advisement - Mobil recommends against changing to synthetic 
when the engine has over 60,000 miles.  You can call their hotilne 
and ask as many questions as you want.  They were very helpful when I 
called, and they sent me a coupon for some money off a case of Mobil1 
(6 quart case).

I had a little problem about 500 miles after switching to synthetic 
from Quaker State - I blew a head gasket.  I had 50.000 miles on the 
car and GM had advised some head gaskets on Quads were prone to 
going.....   Just a coincidence?

I have also noticed the oil pressure doesn't remain as high at idle 
after a long drive - 40psi instead of usual 60psi.  Jumps right back 
though.

Since you're already using the partial synthetic, it probably won't 
effect your car negatively to go the last step.  I'll try and 
remember to bring in Mobil's technical assistance hotline phone 
number for you.  When I've called in the past, I usually talk to a 
chemist.  Pretty decent helpline too.

Mike
'91 W-40 Quad442

Bruce Brumm wrote:
> Anyone out there using synthetic motor oil in Oldsmobiles or others?
> Any benefits, etc?  I am using a partial synthetic from Mobil in my
> '86 Salon (307).  Anyone recommend a full synthetic?  Cost is not really
> an issue, either.  Any takers? Anyone?
 

------------------------------

From: "Dink" <heinle@jake.udayton.edu>
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 13:17:59 -0300
Subject: Re: Synthetic Oils...

> Anyone out there using synthetic motor oil in Oldsmobiles or others?
yes, I'm using it my 80 Delta 307 Y, and soon to be in my dad's 95 
Formula LT-1.  Alot of guys run Mobil 1 on the f-body list, it's the 
first thing they do for some reason.

> Any benefits, etc?
A slight increase in MPG. suppose to be less weight i believe, which equals 
less reciprocating(sp) mass, which equals more power.  Also suppose to 
keep engine's cooler, and get better gas mileage.  Also synthetic 
stays at it's viscosity rating better than dino oils, at more extreme temperatures.

I don't know if this is related to using Mobil 1, but when i changed 
my plugs I noticed 6 of them were burning oil.  I guess Mobil 1 is 
thinner so It got by the worn out rings, that were used to dino oil 
for the last 16 years.

>  I am using a partial synthetic from Mobil in my '86 Salon (307).
i'm using full synthetic from Mobil 1, 10w-30, green lid

>  Anyone recommend a full synthetic? 
Mobil 1
Castrol GTX  (No experience with this one, but John Force the funny 
car god runs it so it must be good.)

Hope some of this helps.
Dink

Dink           Dayton, Ohio
80 Olds Delta 88 Royale  MSD, K&N, etc..
http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
Computer Information Systems Major @ UD =:)

------------------------------

From: Doug Ahern <doug@cobra.cosmic.uga.edu>
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 12:22:23 -0300
Subject: Re: Philosphical Question (was Re: Cassette)

For years I had a tape deck mounted with a couple of L-brackets under
the front seat of my 64 Oldsmobile while the stock AM  kept its original
location.  This is cheap, and apposed to a glove box mounted radio, you 
have master control over tunes, as it should be!  

Of course, I've made the switch to AM talk radio, so it doesn't
matter anymore anyhow...  

- --doug

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 05:22:18 -0300
Subject: Re: Philosphical Question (was Re: Cassette) 

     I would get one of those CD changers that broadcast over FM.  They do 
     make them, but they're hard to find.  They're not too expensive 
     either.  You could mount it in the trunk, under the seat, anywhere you 
     want, and it broadcasts over FM which you can receive over your stock 
     radio.
     
     Drawbacks are that the CD will only sound as good as your stock FM 
     radio, and some of the dynamic range of a CD is lost when converted to 
     FM.  Also the obvious fact that you can't record songs on a CD.  With 
     the changer though, you could probably put a nice array of CD's in 
     there.
     
     Boy, a lot of these songs people are mentioning sure cause a lot of 
     flashbacks!
     
     Tom "Do you know how to get this thing out of second gear!" Lentz


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Philosphical Question (was Re: Cassette)
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    4/22/96 7:51 AM


This talk of car songs for the road has me thinking.
     
There's nothing like cruising around town with the top down 
and the radio playing.  I'd like to play cassettes, but my 
'75 has its original, factory installed, still-works-like-new 
AM/FM/8-track.  I can still find old 8-track tapes at
garage sales and flea markets, but I'm of course limited to 
whatever was recorded when 8-tracks were in vogue 20 years 
ago.  And I can't record or buy anything new.  Plus, these 
tapes are 20-25 years old and usually break after two or 
three playings.
     
But for ENJOYMENT'S sake, I'd like to pull it out (and 
set it carefully aside should I ever want to make the car
completely correct again) and put in a modern AM/FM/cassette.
     
What would YOU do???

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 15:44:10 -0300
Subject: Re: Hot Rod Power Tour

Dink wrote:
> 
> Is any body going on the Power Tour this year? > 
> 
> Later,
>    Dink
> 
> Dink           Dayton, Ohio
> 80 Olds Delta 88 Royale  MSD, K&N, etc..
> http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
> Computer Information Systems Major @ UD =:)

Dink, I will be going with my Z/28. What day exactly will you be there? I 
would take the Hurst/Olds, but I doubt I will have the restoration done 
by then..
- -- 
Jason P. Labay (Akron, Ohio)				  z28cfi@gwis.com
Grad Student in Sport Administration at Kent State U.     f-list since: 
7/95
1988 Camaro Z/28 Cross-Fire Injection 305
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25

------------------------------

From: "Dink" <heinle@jake.udayton.edu>
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 13:52:46 -0300
Subject: Re: Philosphical Question (was Re: Cassette)

>      I would get one of those CD changers that broadcast over FM.  They do 
>      make them, but they're hard to find.
They are easy to find, every Best Buy, etc has them.  Aslo I have a 
Sony 10 disc changer for sale.  Runs off the radio, my brother bought 
it for his acura, but it doesn't have random so he wants to get rid 
of it.  I think he's asking $285 for it.  Also if you have access to 
newsgroups check out rec.audio.car or rec.audio.marketplace you can find 
anything you ever wanted there.

> They're not too expensive 
not really, and they keep the stock radio for show points.

>      Tom "Do you know how to get this thing out of second gear!" Lentz
beep beep

Dink

Dink           Dayton, Ohio
80 Olds Delta 88 Royale  MSD, K&N, etc..
http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
Computer Information Systems Major @ UD =:)

------------------------------

From: Lucas Frick <frick@macrochip.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 13:02:57 -0300
Subject: New member

I have enjoyed this list for the past two weeks.  Got a lot of feedback =
on the rear end that blew up and my spark plug foulin problem.  Thanks.  =
I am glad to see that I am not the only person that some would classify =
as crazy.  Now I know that there are about 100 or so other Olds nuts =
that probably spend as much time on their cars as I do. =20

I have a 1971 442 that has been part of the family for a little over =
three years.  It was a real diamond in the rough.  I bought it for $1200 =
not running, from a mechanic that found it in a barn near Azel, TX.  It =
turned out to be my daily driver at Texas A&M.  My mother wanted me to =
get rid of the Honda CBR 600 (crotch rocket) and drive something a =
little safer, so my dad was the one who was looking for something that =
had to be pretty damn impressive.  The bike was a girl magnet but it was =
also terrible to take on long trips in the cold.  I saw through the =
dents, faded red paint, smashed front end, and rat nest interior on the =
442.  Fell in love instantly.  I would work on that car all night many =
times over. =20

It is red with black stripes on the hood and trunk.  I also added the =
W-30 stripes on the side.  It used to have white stripes and white =
interior.  The carpet was a pain to change - the custom molded carpet =
was 1 reason I won't deal with Whitney Hell again.  I am on my third 10 =
bolt rear end - getting to be a pro at changing those out.  I recently =
installed a Muncie 4 speed (replaced the th400) and a rebuilt 455.  That =
was some major surgery.  It looks great and completely original with the =
4 speed console.  The engine guys tried to discourage me from throwing =
in this cam, and I am noticing why now.  It is real "jerky" at 2000 rpm. =
=20

Some of the old men who like to restore 100 point cars have heart =
attacks when they look under the hood and see incorrect spark plug wires =
attached to a MSD 6AL and timing computer.  Heck, the engine is even =
black.  In other words the car looks very original from the outside but =
has a little more power than stock. The intake is great - Holley street =
dominator mated with a 750 vac sec.  Has headers, flowmasters and a =
bunch of neat stuff.

I saw that one of the other new members is here in Dallas going to UTD =
even.  I am working on the MBA over there, and live 5 min away. Got a =
buttload of parts also.

Luke=20

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 13:09:11 -0300
Subject: parts found

 found an 81 Cutlass dash with gages yesterday, cheap, thought I'd offer it
here first, pass along the savings. Any interest?

Got the race car into town yesterday. The 66 425 still runs great, sounds sweet
w/ open headers... the new 425 should look/ sound/ perform a notch better yet.

- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 13:06:58 -0300
Subject: Misc.

> From: Travis L Mcwaters <travism@utdallas.edu>
>
> I signed up about 2 days ago.  I've spent the last month or so
> pushing life back into 69 Olds 98 convertable.

Cool... email me separately if you need parts, I have 2 '68 98 4-door parts
cars.  -Chris- wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

> The problem with the carb is that right about where it seems like
> the secondaries should be opening up, the engine starts to sputter
> and cough and this nasty hum comes up.  I've talked to a few local

Hmmm. Check and adjust the secondary's spring wrap, and the choke pulloff
diaphragm- make sure it holds vacuum and does not release too fast- the release
controls the opening rate of the secondaries. -Chris-

> The other idea was that there may be a resonant frequence that's
> vibrating all to hell inside the intake itself.  The solution
> proposed was to put a bit of a spacer between the carb and the
> manifold.

Maybe... did you find a pre-EGR intake, or at least block off or correctly hook
up the EGR system?

> 1) Buy a basket case, and acquire a *real* in-depth, hands-on knowledge of
> the mechanicals of your car. This takes more time and money in the long run,
> but you come out of it the wiser, and you know what is in your car.

If you go this route, be aware that the pre-72 W30 parts are, shall we say,
extremely expensive. So, either make sure that the basket contains these parts
or take into acount that you'll be spending about:
$1000 [yep, thousand] for a pair of heads
$500-1000 for a W30 OAI intake setup
$1000 for a W25 OAI hood
  etc. etc. etc. -Chris-

>      head shows the pushrods as what needs fixed.  If you took material off
>      of the valve stems then a) wouldn't you need to take off 1.6 times the
>      decked amount and b) would it cause problems with coil bind or require
>      different valve springs to keep the same tension, or do you cut a
>      groove in the head to seat the spring farther down?

Cutting from the valve tip does not affect the spring height- the top of the
spring is located by 1- valve position [seat & face cut, etc.] and 2- the
keeper groove. The keeper groove is not affected by tip grinding...
   The bottom of the spring sits on the head. You can adjust its position by
cutting the head with the correct tool, or placing a spring shim on the head-
commonly done during a valve job to obtain the correct spring tension [aka
spring installed height].
  One trouble with cutting too much off the valve tip is that the rocker moves
that much closer to the retainer, which it must not touch. There's that special
tool shown in the Service Manual for checking valve tip installed heights, but
how many of us, heck, how many expert machinists even have one?
  S'far as I know, the only reason to grind the valve tip is to refresh the
surface- make it nice and smooth and serviceable. -Chris-

> However, I also see a realationship  in the distance change betwewen
> the pushrods, lifters, and ultimately the valve stem as the valve is
> stationary relative to the block. The difference between the valve and the

Hmmm, I thought the valves moved? :) OK, the valve's seated position might
change wrt the block thru: 1- seat grinding or replacement, 2- valve face
grinding or replacement, 3- use of a gasket of different thickness than before,
4- milling of the head and/or block deck surface.  I doubt that 1 or 2 would
add up to more than 5-10 thousandths of an inch.

> seat DOES  change because the seat is ground down....right?   The valve, now
> essentially, sits deeper into the seat, in effect, making the stem
> longer....right?

Yes, right, by the TINY bit mentioned above...

> Where are you going to make up the difference? The cam? The
> lifter? The pushrod? The rocker arm?

How about the *hydraulic lifter*? The little plunger inside has a range of
movement of about 0.200" or TWO HUNDRED thousandths of an inch. Thus, a valve
job which moves the valve tip oh maybe 0.010" which moves the pushrod 5/8 that
or about 0.006", or even a head cut which moves the pushrod maybe 0.050" is
still well within the range that the lifter's built-in automatic adjustment can
accomodate. Speaking of which, perhaps the Olds valvetrain should be referred
to as 'self adjusting' rather than 'non-adjustable'... EVERY engine with valves
has SOME method of obtaining and maintaining correct valve lash... -Chris-

> But, wouldn't shortening the stem, in effect, be the SAME as
> shortening the pushrod..ulimately?

Nope. Rocker-retainer interference... that ratio of 1.6 [5/8 going the other
way]... etc.

> From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
> First of all, I get a kick out of the dealer saying 'replace the whole
> cluster".  That is complete BS!!!!!    Remove the dash and tighten the

Yeah, the dealer's usual solution is to 'replace the car... with a new one'

> Of course, both battery cables were *red* (oh, one of those rare
> dual-positive batteries...), so I wanted to paint the neg. cable black like

A VERY rare option! Also requires a starting motor with a monopole magnet in
the field :) -Chris-

> How is a choke stove coil supposed to be attached to its housing in a '69 455
> intake? My coil spins freely, and hence won't close the choke. It looks like
> the center of the coil should be held rigidly, but mine spins. There appear

If it got installed wrong, the tang that's supposed t bear against the thingy
[confusing technical terms, I know, hang in there!] won't... you have to 'wrap'
it the right way upon installation. I guess the inner part might be broken off,
where it sits in a slot in the central shaft.
  Seems to me like if you really wanted to, you could use a new coil from a
similar unit and fit the new coil to the old housing. Would take some fiddling.
   Replacement units are available, steeply priced at about $70-100 last time I
checked- Year One? One of them places. For a unit that works darn- near-
adequately at best. Manual is always an option.

> Subject: Jetaway Power Capacity?
> Anyone have any advice re. the power capacity of a Jetaway trans? In
> discussing whether or not to change the cam on my '68 350, the question
> came up as to whether the trans would be able to handle the extra power
> for very long.
> How much can one of these reliably take? Should I forget the whole thing?
> Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Have at it. Sturdy trans. -Chris W-

> Second of all, the bi-metal coil has more than likely lost its memory and has
> grown. They are not even adjustable! The men from Old's were asking toooooooo
> much out of a stupid piece of metal to control sooooo much on that motor. Do

Well, technically, you bend the link rod to adjust the tension. But, not VERY
adjustable. Not like the big round black thingy later used. Yes, they were
asking a lot from it. Funny, they only used that for 2 years.... -Chris-

> I went around a few weeks ago looking for choke pieces.
> As someone else put it, they looked at me as if I had 3 heads.
> You can try the junk yards, but carbs are usually the first things
> to get removed.

As luck would have it, these choke coils are not mounted in the carbs, but on
the intake. I have about a dozen on hand, including a couple unused ones, but
there are different styles, numbers, etc. I was going to convert the tri-carb's
unit to electric-assist by placing a cig lighter element next to the coil. Of
course, even if the carb is there, it'd have to be a 68/9 engine, which are
quite rare anymore... -Chris-

>         I'm taping myself a couple of cassette tapes for the cars this
> summer and I'd like to focus on great CAR songs.  So far, all I've come up
> with is:
>         Queen - I'm in Love with my Car
>         Deep Purple - Highway Star

- ---- Little Douche Cup, of course! ---- Chris

> >for edge stiffening. I put 2 1/4" studs in the holes in the block, above the
> >cam bearings. Placed new valley pan on them, tapped with hammer to mark
> >locations. Drilled holes. Loctited studs in place. put AL spacers about 1-1.2
>             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> In the pan, I presume.

Ayup. In the former bathtub gasket now valley pan. Gotta locat them holes
somehow.

> I know where the holes in the block above the cam are, but are those studs
> 1/4" long or 1/4" diameter?  Do you loctite them to the holes on the pan or
> the block?  What size are the aluminum spacers you used, and how do they fit
> on the studs/tray?  Thanks for the help!

1/4" dia. threaded rod [all-thread] works well. Loctited and/or loc-nutted to
the block. About 1.75" long, stick up just far 'nuff to hold the valley tray
just right, gotta clear the intake bottom and the pushrods.
  The spacers I used were about 1.25" high, and I cut a reces in the bottom to
fit over the locknut that keeps the stud in the block. overkill, but I like it.
One could also use a stud w/o spacers, and use a nut-washer- tray- washer- nut
arrangement to hold the tray at the correct elevation. My AL spacers were made
from handy material, about 1" dia., and I used nuts atop the tray with built-in
washers.
  I tried to ASCII-art it, but haven't the patience to make it work. Maybe
Rocket Science should offer the kit- studs, spacers, instructions, use your old
b'tub gasket... -Chris-

> Aurora...
> Whenever you speed up, it gets a little rader to hear.  But 60 kph the screech
>                                 Oops, harder to hear :)
> is most audible.  Do you have any idea what this noise is?  Is it normal
> for this car?  It is a 1994.

Um, Fords trying to catch up to you? :)

- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 13:07:52 -0300
Subject: Re: Philosphical Question (was Re: Cassette)

> My solution for a long time in a car that never had a radio to begin
> with was to just carry a ~$40 portable radio on the car with me.  
> I kept meaning to wire up something so that it could run off the 
> car's power but I ended up feeding it lots of batteries instead.
> -- Travis

You can an universal adapter for a portable radio that will plug into your
lighter, from Radio Shack.  I got mine for $12.95.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-8007    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 13:07:29 -0300
Subject: Used 403's and Engine Hoists 

Drove out halfway on Long Island yesterday to pick up a 403 from a T/A with a
"spun bearing". We finally had a beautiful day up here in NY, so I didn't
mind the one-and-a-half hour trip. The guy keeps his stuff in his parent's
garage (sounds all too familiar), and went to a wedding the night before, so
is not much in the mood for discussing details (Me: So, lets pop the pan and
take a look inside. Him: Oh, jeeshz, wadda ya wanna do that for?).

The guy is an air-tool freak. I want to remove the exhaust manifolds, since
the crossover pipe is rusted to them, so instead of just using a 9/16"
socket, he has to start up the compressor, put on the surgical gloves, find
the air wrench, get a socket that fits, etc.. And he wants to do it all
himself; fine, I keep clean.

A half-hour later, he has managed to remove the pan; no rod wrapped around
the crank, no bearings oozing out from the rods, so we pack it up, he takes
my $60, and rolls around his engine hoist, much like the one I've been
contemplating buying from Jeg's for $290 (+ truck shipping).

Me: So, where'd you get this baby, Jeg's, Summit?
Him (more recovered from his hangover): Price Club?
Me (slightly surprised): Really? How much?
Him: $190.

The light bulb begins to flicker inside my head; hmmm, what the h*ll was I
going to do with this engine when I got home? How *would* I get it out of the
car? Where is there a Price Club?

Well, the Price Club out there on L.I. is out of hoists, but the engine is
going to be rebuilt at *my* parent's garage up in CT, and *they* belong to
price club, so...

Call home, tell them to check on engine hoist availability at Price Club up
there, and I'll call back when I'm in the Bronx. Turns out Price Club and
BJ's don't talk to you on the phone (machines only), so I take a chance and
drive up to CT anyway. If they have the hoist, out comes the engine; if they
don't, I strip off the heads and crank, and drive around with a block in my
trunk for a week.

Bingo! Turns out the BJ's in Fairfield has one more hoist for $199, and 4-leg
engine stands for $39! (heck, at that price, I'll take two) Take 'em up to
pop's, assemble them, hoist engine out of trunk, slip it into the stand, and
we're done! A three-hour trip has turned into a ten-hour ordeal (my wife
reveals how understanding she is on that day), but the basis for my Electra
403 buildup is all set.

A little note about the discount-house hoist and stands. They are all made in
China, but I figure the Chinese have mastered the art of hydraulics and arc
welding, and I'm mightily impressed by the craftmanship of these tools.
Besides, the hoist is a 4400lb model, compared to the 1500lb pickers you get
elsewhere for the same price. Mine lifted a full 403 with little effort, and
I've used the lighter capacity ones (rentals) before, which were strained by
a Ch*vy 350.

And by all means, *don't* get a 3-leg engine stand. I used to have one, and
my 455 always felt like it was on the verge of tipping on that. The 4-leg is
much sturdier and more stable. And hey, for $40, you can add on the $30 Price
Club membership and *still* be ahead of what most auto parts stores will
charge for the same.

One other thing about these *big tools*; political correctness aside, they
are *manly* tools. My father and his friend, who have no interest in cars
beyond driving them, gravitated to these masterpieces of square-tubing and
grade-8 bolts, and even wanted to help hoist the engine. I guess there is
something innate in us that makes us want to use hydraulics and steel to move
large masses of iron.

btw, my old '76 Monte, which a friend gave me for free and which is usually
reserved for in-town use due to its, uh, "advanced" state of body rot, rode
and performed like a champ the whole way, even when loaded down with 500lbs
of Olds iron. I'll give Ch*vies credit; they're good for hauling around Olds
parts!

------------------------------

From: "wesf@hpdmm12.boi.hp.com" <wesf@hpdmm12.boi.hp.com> 
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 13:16:10 -0300
Subject: Re: Hurst/Olds Insignia 

Zack@Buddha@itw.com wrote:

> does anyone know where i can get the small Hurst/Olds badges...

Are you talking about the little chrome H/O emblems that are found
inside some of the Hurst/Olds cars, the slightly larger H/O emblems
found on the exteriors of the Hurst/Olds cars, or something else?

Wes Fujii

------------------------------

From: eda@dl.tc.faa.gov
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 13:22:27 -0300
Subject: Re: Cassette 

Gary Numan - "In Cars"
Steppenwolf - "Born To Be Wild"
and, nothing to do with cars, but one of my all-time favorite driving
songs, though it does make me want to steer side-to-side across four
lanes -
The B-52's - "Rock Lobster"

Ed Atlee			'77 Cutlass Supreme
eda@dl.tc.faa.gov		'84 Hurst/Olds
	R O C K E T	P O W E R E D ! !

------------------------------

From: Lucas Frick <frick@macrochip.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 13:36:23 -0300
Subject: Re: coupla items

I have put it two Muncie 4 speeds, If you have any problems give me =
email.  The parts were all bought at Wade Gear and Trans in Dallas.  =
Very professional place - not a bunch of shade tree mechanics.  I have =
not had any problems with my Hayes 11" clutch, I thought a Centerforce =
dual friction might be to hard to put in.

Luke

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 05:51:46 -0300
Subject: Re: Synthetic Oils... 

     Yeah, I'm using Mobil-1 synthetic (10w30 in winter, 10w30 with a quart 
     or two of 15w50 added during summer [since Mobil-1 don't make a 
     10w40]) in the 307-Y in my '84 H/O, and Valvoline 10w40 semi-synth in 
     my fiance's truck (350 Olds).  Only using the semi-synth there because 
     a) it's a rather old engine and b) it has a 7-qt oil pan on it.  I 
     used Mobil-1 in my '79 260 while I had it too.  Never a problem in any 
     of them, except the truck where it made a small valve-cover leak much 
     worse.  Just fixed that, was something that needed done sooner or 
     later anyways.
     
     The problem comes when I try to say exactly what good it does.  I'd 
     have to drive two identical cars the same way, but one with synthetic 
     and one without to get any meaningful statistics.  I can say that oil 
     pressure is better after a long highway drive.  When the engine got 
     really really warmed up (with 10w30 Quaker State I used to use), like 
     after 1/2 hour of highway driving, the oil pressure would drop to 
     about 40psi cruising, and below 20 at idle.  Now it stays at 50psi on 
     the highway (same weight of oil) and never below 20 at idle.
     
     After the first couple of oil changes, the oil also appears cleaner 
     come change-time.  I could probably extend the intervals far beyond 
     the 3k I use, esp. if I just changed the filter, but I don't.  Can you 
     even change the filter on an Olds without half the oil coming out?  
     I've never tried. . .  Also, neither car consumes any more oil.  The 
     '84 doesn't use a single drop, and the truck uses a quart about every 
     1000-1500 miles, which is same as before the synthetic.
     
     
     Of course there's also the placebo factor where your engine just 
     "seems" to run smoother, start easier, etc.  which is really hard to 
     quantify.  Plus it might make you sleep better at night knowing your 
     baby is protected.
     
     Tom L.

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Synthetic Oils...
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    4/22/96 8:20 AM


Anyone out there using synthetic motor oil in Oldsmobiles or others? 
Any benefits, etc?  I am using a partial synthetic from Mobil in my
'86 Salon (307).  Anyone recommend a full synthetic?  Cost is not really 
an issue, either.  Any takers? Anyone?
     
- -- 
     
     Bruce D. Brumm (bdbrumm@ix.netcom.com) 

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 14:00:04 -0300
Subject: Re: Philosphical Question (was Re: Cassette) 

Thanks, everyone, for your advice!


One drawback to recording new material over an
existing 8-track is that I'm still stuck with a
20-25 year old tape, and my experience with
these is that they're very prone to breaking.
As far as I know, no one is making new, blank,
8-track tapes.

I have been looking for a cassette-to-8-track
adapter at swap meets, flea markets, and so
forth, but I haven't found one yet.

I like the idea of installing the new radio
under the dash or something like that to keep
the original one in place.  I'll have to find
a place to mount it so that it's not obtrusive.


************************************************
Daniel A. Gulino
Associate Professor and Graduate Chairman
Department of Chemical Engineering
Ohio University
Athens, Ohio  45701-2979
(614) 593-1495
(614) 593-0873 (fax)
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://www.ent.ohiou.edu/che/faculty/gulino.html
************************************************

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 14:05:06 -0300
Subject: Re: Cassette

Still thinking on this...

	Ragtop Day - Jimmy Buffett
	Love is a Stranger in an Open Car - Eurythmics

BTW, the band Golden Earring is not a one hit wonder... it's a two
hit wonder.  I think is was one decade after "Radar Love" came out, they
had a hit with "When the Bullet Hits the Bone".

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-8007    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 15:04:57 -0300
Subject: Re: Cassette 

In a message dated 96-04-22 11:26:58 EDT, you write:

>>"Lake Shore Drive"; Alliotta, Haynes & Jerehiam; yes, it is available
>>on CD but only a really good record store can find it... :-)
>
>...especially when I misspell it to begin with; that should be Jeremiah,
>of course...
>
>

Heck, what are you apologizing for, the Olds factory can't even spell Banzai!

Bob Handren
'67 442 W30 Modified
'70 Cutlass SX Concertible

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 15:12:46 -0300
Subject: Re: Offset Wheel weights  

In a message dated 96-04-21 08:10:51 EDT, you write:

>> ... I did order the '69 shop manual from Fusick's ... 
>
>Does this manual cover only the Toro's, or would it cover the
>98 as well?  (if there was signifigant discussion of this manual
>before 3 days ago, I missed it -- sorry)  I am in the market for a 
>good reference for this '69 Olds 98 convertable that I'm working on.
>I'd pay top dollar for an accurate diagram of the vacuum system 
>with pictures!  (lots of fun stories there)

It's for all '69's; $70 + $7.50 shipping. Yeah, for the vacuum lines, you
can't always guess at the factory logic (or if there actually was any).

I've now got a policy of getting the shop manual for any car that I'm going
to be doing any serious work on. It costs more up front, but saves you tons
of headaches later on.

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 15:13:10 -0300
Subject: Re: 350 Problems 

In a message dated 96-04-21 21:50:13 EDT, you write:

>Well, I have been trying for 2 weeks to get the new 350 running in my 84
[snip]
>Here it is, Everything bolted up well, the block to mounts to frame, and the
>tranny to the tranny mount.  The driveshaft went into the tranny just as far
>as it did with the 307, so the motor seems to be located correctly from
front to
>back.  But, when I got all the accessories on today, and tried to put on the
>power steering pump, I found the pulley was too close to the power steering
>box and the belt won't fit through the space.  Also, my adjustment has been
cut
>down quite a bit.  The pump and mounting bracket worked on the 307 2 weeks
>ago, >I haven't had this problem before.  I thought all the blocks were the
same,

So did I, since it really is front cover/head accessory/exhaust bolts you are
connecting things to

>but
>now I wonder if the mount bolt holes are farther up on the block, causing
the
>motor to sit too low for this car.  If anyone has run into this before, or

You may be right about the motor sitting too low. Is it possible that the
motor mounts are on upside down, or swapped side to side? Whatever the case,
I think it sounds like an engine location problem, rather than a bracket
problem. Do you have the brackets from the 350? (if not, I've got a set from
a '72 you could try)


>Tony
> PS.  To the guy who recomended placing a socket on the flexplate bolt with
a
>short extension in order to tighten the balancer bolt:  Thanks a lot, it
>worked great, I used a 1 inch extension and had no problems.  Terrific
idea!!

I was surprised too at how well this worked! Now I've got a 403 on an engine
stand, and I can't simply do the same thing. I may have to put a nut on the
other side of that bolt on the flexplate, or run a longer grade-8 bolt
through that hole, so it will interfere with the block, and bolt it tight.

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 15:13:12 -0300
Subject: Re: Q-jet leak 

In a message dated 96-04-21 22:04:10 EDT, you write:

>I put fuel into
>this hole today, and it leaked out at the throttle shaft, as well as coming
up
>out of the accelerator pump.  I think it came out the the accel puump
because
>I probably put too much gas in.  But a lot came out of the throttle shaft,
ate
>away a section of my new gold paint on the intake!  Now, when I push down on
>the accel pump, no gas is squirted out (into the holes, front 2 barrels).  I
>would think that if the float bowl was full, gas should squirt into the
holes
>leading to thhe intake, since it doesn't i must assume all the gas leaked
out
>the throttle shaft.  Anyone with carb exp, what do I do?  Will it run?
>Should I bring it back (I can't bring it in the car, they won't touch it
then
>because >of emmissions) ?  HELP!!!

I'd say you have the infamous "leaking well plug" problem, plus leaking
throttle shafts (they do wear out, and need to be bushed). If the carb shop
*didn't* know this about your Qjet, I'd take that carb SOMEWHERE ELSE!!!

Or do it yourself; it is not too hard as long as you have a steady hand and
some patience. There are kits for correcting both these problems.

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 15:13:14 -0300
Subject: Re: Cassette 

In a message dated 96-04-22 01:35:29 EDT, you write:

>> Roadrunner - ???

Jonathan Richman and the Modern Lovers (references in the song make more
sense if you live in and around Boston); also used in the Eldorado scenes in
Mad Magazine's "Up the Academy"

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 16:21:45 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Who is interested 

My vote is for keeping one list.  Just to point out, not to embarrass, that 
we need to police ourselves more, this poster didn't do what s/he just 
agreed with!

I fall into the same category of rushing a reply out, but before clicking on 
send, see if a bit more can't be trimmed, and judge if the reply shouldn't go 
directly to the poster (would the whole mail list be interested?).  Remember, 
there's about 200 people on the list, which means 200 mail messages sent by 
Greg's server.

David Brown
dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu    (312) 702-9157
"Oldsmobile - powerful roadsters with big V8s"
- ------------------------

Andrew I couldn't agree more. Well said! Any one else?


>>I was just wondering how much interest there would be in splitting this
>>group into 2 (or more) categories such as performance and restoration or
>>whatever?
>
>This gets a bit long-winded below.
>
< huge snip by Dave >
>
>-- Edit the quoted material. I know mailers like Eudora (which I'm using
>here) will quote the entire previous message automatically, and it's easy
>to forget the length of the original post when only part of it is visible
>onscreen and you're hot to get your followup out the door, but please take
>a moment to find the main point you're replying to and throw out the rest.
>
< another huge snip by Dave >

------------------------------

From: Frederick Pirochta <frederickp@sosmail.state.mi.us>
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 18:21:26 -0300
Subject: Upcoming Event

Please include the "1996 Oldsmobile Homecoming" car show hosted by the 
R.E. Olds Chapter in the list of Upcoming Events.  The show will be held 
at the Oldsmobile Administration Building in Lansing, MI on Saturday, 
June 15, 1996 from 9 am til 4 pm.  Registration is $5.00 per car and 
$20.00 per swap space on or before 6/3/96.  After 6/3/96 the cost 
increases to $10.00 per car and $30.00 per swap space.

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 15:35:24 -0300
Subject: Re: Cassette

> From oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca Mon Apr 22 14:23 EDT 1996
> Date: 	Mon, 22 Apr 1996 15:13:14 -0300
> From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
> To: oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
> Subject: Re: Cassette
> 
> In a message dated 96-04-22 01:35:29 EDT, you write:
> 
> >> Roadrunner - ???
> 
> Jonathan Richman and the Modern Lovers (references in the song make more
> sense if you live in and around Boston); also used in the Eldorado scenes in
> Mad Magazine's "Up the Academy"
> 
>

Omigod, how could I forget this gem?? (Seeing how I live in the burbs
of Boston)... I do have it on one of my 'Top Down Music' tapes.... 'specially
good for when you're driving down 128 toward Cape Cod w/ the top down :)

Johnathan Richman is a Natick boy, for those who know the area.



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'88 Cadillac Brougham, a.k.a. 'Big Blue' -- Olds 307 Powered!!
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: Travis L McWaters <travism@utdallas.edu> 
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 15:35:38 -0300
Subject: Re: Offset Wheel weights 

> [the shop manual] is for all '69's; $70 + $7.50 shipping. 
> Yeah, for the vacuum lines, you can't always guess at the 
> factory logic (or if there actually was any).

Could someone with one of these shop manuals take a look and
see what it has to say about the vacuum system on a '69 Olds 98?
I don't mean for you to copy something out of the book, but just
see if the info is there or not.  I don't really want to spend
$80 only to find out that it doesn't have the info I need.

- -- Travis

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 15:32:59 -0300
Subject: Re: Hot Rod Power Tour

At 02:05 AM 4/22/96 -0300, you wrote:
, call me a 
>trader but I think some people 

>Later,
>   Dink
>
>
You trader (traitor?)
- --
Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 15:43:10 -0300
Subject: Re: Philosphical Question (was Re: Cassette)

At 11:01 AM 4/22/96 -0300, you wrote:

>Should you do that, it will unplug in back, and you can buy adaptor
>harnesses for the new stereo which will mate with the dash harness
>plugs so that you don't have to cut any factory wires or connectors.
>Yes, Radio Shack has those too.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Or a good local car stereo place...
- --
Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 16:08:57 -0300
Subject: Re: Offset Wheel weights

> From oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca Mon Apr 22 14:43 EDT 1996
> To: oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
> Could someone with one of these shop manuals take a look and
> see what it has to say about the vacuum system on a '69 Olds 98?
> I don't mean for you to copy something out of the book, but just
> see if the info is there or not.  I don't really want to spend
> $80 only to find out that it doesn't have the info I need.
> 
> -- Travis

I've been meaning to look this up for you.  I have the 70 shop manuals.  I
would think it would not be too different.  I think I looked this up before,
and they had a 1" by 2" picture that was very hard to follow.  Unfortunately,
my manuals are at home, and I'm at work.

If there is something I can look at on my car, let me know.

I picked up my shop manuals at Olds Homecoming, last year, for $65.

It's nice to see that there is another 98 Convertible in the group.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-8007    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 15:00:40 -0300
Subject: Getting the Service Manual 

Following the gorgeous weather this weekend, I had to get back to
the list to send out another rave about Getting the Service Manual
for Your Car. I spent some time sitting in the car with Volume 1 of my
new 1993 *ahem**cough*pontiacbonneville*cough*hey-it's-GM-okay? manual
and did some exploratory surgery to see how GM's current assembly standards
compare to the hardware I was used to in my '82 Cutlass, because I have
some gadgetry to add to the dashboard (e.g. remote radar, cellphone) that
came out of the Cutlass, and need to experiment with location, etc. Random
thoughts on the whole day:

1) It isn't until you do the first major piece of work on your car with
your very own factory service manual that you appreciate what a gold mine
it is. Every _single_ _page_ is devoted to nothing but _your_ car. Where
Chilton would say, for example, "Remove dash trim plate", GM gives you
specific steps, several line drawings, even hints on which way to pull on
the panel, and torque specifications for the little screws that hold
various stuff together.

2) Hex-head metric screws are out; 95% of the screws (excluding really
large load-bearing ones such as steering column supports) are Torx head.
And HappyHappyJoyJoy, they're all the same size head! Only one Torx
screwdriver is needed.

3) Slick stereo installation design uses a support rail, like a dresser
drawer: Plonk the radio on the rail and slide it into the hole; a C-channel
wraps around the rail and keeps the back end locked down as you slide it 
into position, then three screws secure it at the front. No reaching behind 
to get that one nightmare screw that you can't turn without pliers. Factory
stereo also has anti-theft code capability which perhaps six people in the
country might be aware of.  ;-)

4) Computerized HVAC dash display, which does everything but wipe your nose
for you, connects to harness with precisely six small wires in one plug. No
massive vacuum assembly with leaky rotary valve, no Bowden cables to gouge
your hand back there. Manual shows a diagnostic system to help troubleshoot
HVAC problems (including slow Freon leaks) but have not tried that yet.

5) No more speedo cables. Speedometer is a stepping motor and odometer is a
fluorescent display. Massive gauge cluster removes via 5 screws and two
multi-pin plugs. Minor inconvenience requires lowering steering column to
clear the last half-inch when extricating the cluster.

6) Manual is full of nasty warnings about disabling the air bags when doing
anything more challenging than emptying the ashtray. Among other nuggets of
info on this subject: System can fire the bags for up to ten minutes after
loss of main power, thus proper disabling involves disconnecting the
harness and not just the battery. Computer (well, one of them) can store 
info permanently on up to three accidents resulting in air bag deployment.
i.e. The car can "remember" whether it's been in an accident, and how many.

7) If you get the urge to reupholster, manual even explains how to attach
seat covers (not seat cover covers, but replacement original skins) and 
gives tips on how to line up guidelines on the fabric with the springs, etc.

The attention to detail is really impressive. I think I'll look up how they
instruct you to change the oil, and see what I've been doing wrong all these
years. I'm sure they'll find something wrong with my technique.  :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 16:04:54 -0300
Subject: Re: Misc.

At 01:06 PM 4/22/96 -0300, you wrote:

>
>1/4" dia. threaded rod [all-thread] works well. Loctited and/or loc-nutted to
>the block. About 1.75" long, stick up just far 'nuff to hold the valley tray
>just right, gotta clear the intake bottom and the pushrods.


The holes in the block are threaded, yes?

- --
Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 15:06:36 -0300
Subject: Re: Philosphical Question (was Re: Cassette) 

>>Should you do that, it will unplug in back, and you can buy adaptor
>>harnesses for the new stereo which will mate with the dash harness
>>plugs so that you don't have to cut any factory wires or connectors.
>>Yes, Radio Shack has those too.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>Or a good local car stereo place...

Uh, right, I was popping off too soon. Didn't mean to suggest that
Radio Shack had either the best kits or the best prices, but there
_are_ a lot of RatShacks out there. 

I've also seen the kits at Best Buy and other places like that. They
are worthwhile if you don't enjoy lying upside down under the dash
trying to solder the wiring together, or don't want to cut harnesses.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 07:13:14 -0300
Subject: Sound Advice

Hey, Olds Peoples,

There has been a number of postings over the last few months relating to 
updating audio systems in old cars.  Since I've been toying with the idea 
of reopening my audio shop (one of my past sins); how many might be 
interested in retrofitting new guts into their old radios?

I haven't given this tons of thought yet so I'm not sure of the best 
approach, equipment, price, etc.  Since it's getting tougher to find good 
analog-dial radios anymore, maybe putting the guts of a digital into the 
old case with a old front panel that flips up/down?

Opinions?

Must be 2 inches of dust on the old O-scope...


The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 16:29:03 -0300
Subject: trans ID?

I picked up a cast iron 4-speed trans last week, wondering if anyone can lend
any insight to identifying it... typical GM [Saginaw?] cast iron, 7-bolt side
cover.
  "RD" painted on in letters about 1" high. VIN ? stamped in =
  19K460584, which I'm guessing means:
1= Chevy
9= 1969, 79, or 89
K= Truck ???
######= the vehicle's VIN sequential number.


Oh, was looking up Oldsmobile on a network phone search thing, found what is
apparently a trailer park:
Olds Mobile Park, 19798 Highway 99e, Hubbard, OR 97032, Ph. 503-981-7179.

Also, here in Lansing, there's a place called Olds Mobile Home Sales.

- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 16:30:59 -0300
Subject: Re: Sound Advice

> Hey, Olds Peoples,
> 
> There has been a number of postings over the last few months relating to 
> updating audio systems in old cars.  Since I've been toying with the idea 
> of reopening my audio shop (one of my past sins); how many might be 
> interested in retrofitting new guts into their old radios?
> 
> I haven't given this tons of thought yet so I'm not sure of the best 
> approach, equipment, price, etc.  Since it's getting tougher to find good 
> analog-dial radios anymore, maybe putting the guts of a digital into the 
> old case with a old front panel that flips up/down?
> 
> Opinions?

How about an all remote radio?  Hide the guts up in the dash, stick an infared sensor
somewhere in a subtle place.  No one is gonna want to steal that 25+ year old radio
out of your dash.  And you have all the advantages of 90's technology at your fingertips.

CD's and cassettes would be a problem...

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-8007    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 16:31:10 -0300
Subject: Re: trans ID?

At 04:29 PM 4/22/96 -0300, you wrote:
>I picked up a cast iron 4-speed trans last week, wondering if anyone can lend
>any insight to identifying it... typical GM [Saginaw?] cast iron, 7-bolt side
>cover.                                       ^^^^^^^

Saginaw has a 7 bolt cover (like the Muncie), but the reverse lever on the
Saginaw is mounted in the side cover; on the Muncie the reverse lever is
mounted in the extension housing. 

Don't know anything about the numbers, though...
- --
Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 16:33:25 -0300
Subject: Re: Sound Advice

At 04:30 PM 4/22/96 -0300, you wrote:

>
>How about an all remote radio?  Hide the guts up in the dash, stick an
infared sensor
>somewhere in a subtle place.  No one is gonna want to steal that 25+ year
old radio
>out of your dash.  And you have all the advantages of 90's technology at
your fingertips.
>
>CD's and cassettes would be a problem...
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

  
>Robert Lawrence   

Use a trunk mounted CD changer with a remote..
- --
Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Tony <3CQ9DELBALSO@vms.csd.mu.edu>
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 18:05:55 -0300
Subject: Re: 350 Problems

Here it is, Everything bolted up well, the block to mounts to frame, and the
tranny to the tranny mount.  The driveshaft went into the tranny just as far as
it did with the 307, so the motor seems to be located correctly from front to
back.  But, when I got all the accessories on today, and tried to put on the
power steering pump, I found the pulley was too close to the power steering box
and the belt won't fit through the space.  Also, my adjustment has been cut
down quite a bit.  The pump and mounting bracket worked on the 307 2 weeks ago,
I haven't had this problem before.  I thought all the blocks were the same, but
now I wonder if the mount bolt holes are farther up on the block, causing the
motor to sit too low for this car.  If anyone has run into this before, or has
information regarding mounting holes in the blocks, please let me know.  I
don't know how to solve this problem.  I am going to the store tomorrow to see
if 73 mounts are taller (that is the year of the 350).  If they are, I am going
to try to replace them, without unbolting everything (took a full day and a
half last time).  I would really appreciate some knowledgable help with this
problem.  Thanks in advance.

*****************
Ok, I'm back, no replies yet.  I went to the store, and the motor mounts are
the same for a 73 cutlass w/ a 350, and an 84 cutlass w/ a 307.  My next
thought is that maybe the transmission tailshaft is sitting higher than the
previous transmission (mounting holes on tranny sit lower) and therefore the
front of the block is sitting low.  Anyone out there know if this may be the
case with swapping a turbo 350 in place of a metric 200?

Thanks
Tony

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #155
********************************

