
oldsmobile-digest          Monday, 29 April 1996       Volume 01 : Number 161


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 16:58:02 -0300
Subject: Re: What kind of people

Funny this discussion came up.  I had sent Greg Beaulieu a message a 
week or so ago asking what he thought about some type of registry for the 
group: Names, cars owned, interest, skills, etc.  So we were looking in 
how it might work, what CCN can do, etc.

I had planned to bring it up to y'all (In live in FL now, not PA) when we 
had a little more information but I guess now's as good a time as any...

Whatcha think?

- -------------------------------------------------------------------

Me:

Guess I have to be thrown into the computer nerd catagory.  Started out 
in electronics.  Air navigation systems in the Air Force, then general 
electronics (audio, radio, etc) for a few years, followed by a 
stint as a computer field engineer (main-frames and minis).  Got tired of 
getting my ties run over by computer printers so I started into software 
about 15 years ago.

Got started working on cars in the Air Force.  Found it difficult to get 
a water pump fixed in the Phillipines (the now defunct Clark AB) so I 
learned how to do it myself.  Learned to weld fixing my first Toro's 
exhaust system in Germany.  So I finally figured that I didn't need to 
pay some jerk $40/hr to screw up my car when I was perfectly capable of 
screwing it up myself.

Jean and I got fed up with the taxes and cold weather in PA so we packed 
up and moved to Tampa almost 4 years ago.  No regrets.  Also have a small 
recording studio to tinker around with and a 27' sloop we cruise the Gulf 
in once in awhile.  (PS: outboards are a pain in the butt.  I'd rather 
lean over a fender any day than lean over a transom.)


                               The End


The 66 Toro and Mike

- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 17:39:58 -0300
Subject: Re: What kind of people

I guess I will throw my .02 into this.  Well lets see...Currently I am a first year 
graduate student at Kent State University in Kent, Ohio. I am studying Sport 
Administration. When I grow up I want to be a college Athletic Director:) I graduated 
from Kent State last May with a B.S. in Marketing. I am a fraternity guy also. I am a 
member of Delta Sigma Pi and am still very active as an alumni...sometimes too active at 
parties..;)
Currently I work for the TRW Valve Rotator Plant in Mogadore, OH. All we make there are 
those little round things that rotate the valve. I only work there part time. I am also 
a Business & Finance Intern in the Kent State Athletic Department. I am the one who 
gives all the coaches the school's money. 
As for my interest in cars, it came naturally. My family owns a towing company in Akron, 
Ohio. IT is not just a towing company. They move machinery, help build buildings, have a 
salvage yard. As for the size of it, it is one of the largest operations in the country 
and 5th oldest (est. 1926) We have 11 Semi Wreckers, 9 Small Wreckers, 4 Cranes, 4 
Flatbeds, and other misc. stuff including an M4 military tank with a tow boom on the 
back to rescue trucks that have gone down into bad areas. Being around this stuff all my 
life has gotten me spoiled. I get anything car related for nothing. That is how I got my 
75 Hurst/Olds. Some goof just left it there and said junk it. 
I totally built my 88 Z/28 from the ground up. I bought the car as a TOTALLY stripped 
shell and added everything from a donor Z/28..wiring and all. The Hurst is waiting for 
school to get over before its restoration starts.  Thats enough......:)

- -- 
Jason P. Labay (Akron, Ohio)				  z28cfi@gwis.com
Grad Student in Sport Administration at Kent State U.     f-list since: 7/95
1988 Camaro Z/28 Cross-Fire Injection 305
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25

------------------------------

From: "Dink" <heinle@jake.udayton.edu>
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 16:26:00 -0300
Subject: Re: Cheap Stuff That Works

>         MAGIC MATCH 
> The 66 Toro and Mike

This stuff worked great on my car until it rained.  Then it looked 
all faded again.

Dink

!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~
Dink           Dayton, Ohio
80 Olds Delta 88 Royale  MSD, K&N, Dynomax, etc..
http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
- --

------------------------------

From: David Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 16:28:54 -0300
Subject: stalling

Well, I dropped the tank today.  Not nearly as difficult as I was expecting.
In fact, it's relatively easy.  Took out the sender, and the tank was pretty
darn clean.  A few miniscule pieces of eight floating around in there, no
sign of water.  I removed the filter screen, and it didn't look too dirty (I
could see light through it), but I tried to blow through it, and almost
couldn't.  It was like two layers of some kind of really fine nylon (?)
mesh.  So, I put the sender back in without it, and put an inline filter
right where the line comes out of the tank.  The new inline filter was much
easier to blow through.  I reused the O-ring that was on the sender; it
wasn't dry or cracked.  It was still quite like new.  Now I've checked the
whole fuel delivery system.  If it still stalls, I shall have to dive
further into the electrical side of things, but I think most everything
there is OK (ignition, grounds, switches, etc.)  Hopefully, the problem was
that pesky filter screen.  We'll see...  :^)

- --
Dave Paulison             Melbourne, FL          69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: "Dink" <heinle@jake.udayton.edu>
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 17:26:21 -0300
Subject: Re: What kind of people

You know I think I started this but I havn't contributed to it.  I 
just type like 2 page description, then power outage, so i'll make 
this one shorter. I'm from Brunswick, ohio about 20 miles south of 
Cleveland.

I started out with cars along time ago, helping change oil, tires, 
etc..  One of my dad'd employee's used to drag race, so i was at the 
track when I was about 3 or so.  Since then i've been working on 
tractor's and stuff.  But about 10 years ago, my parents wanted to 
goto camp during the summer cause they went over to europe for 
something.  I didn't want a normal camp, so they found out about of 
National Computer Camp, since then i've been hooked.  For the last 10 
years i've been back and the last 5 as a teacher.  When I was 16 I 
needed a car, and gramma was selling her Olds b/c it needed a lot of 
work.  So I bought it for $1, yes 1 dollar and then put about  $1500 
in it, to get it running.  I loved workin on it, and since then i've 
turned car nut again.  Since then i've been going to drag race's and 
started to bracket race.  Now i'm a second year Computer Information 
Systems at the University of Dayton, Dayton, ohio.   I got my dad hooked and talked 
him into getting some muscle for him.  Last year he bought a 1995 
Firebird Formula 350, LT-1, 6 Speed, etc..  Needless to say he LIKES 
it.  So now i'm trying to get a degree, and be a car nut at the same 
time.  People around here look at you real funny when your working on 
your car, or waxing it or something.  Well I guess that's it for now.


Dink

!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~
Dink           Dayton, Ohio
80 Olds Delta 88 Royale  MSD, K&N, Dynomax, etc..
http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
- --

------------------------------

From: "Dink" <heinle@jake.udayton.edu>
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 17:28:50 -0300
Subject: Re: What kind of people

> other misc. stuff including an M4 military tank with a tow boom on the 
                                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

HEY keep that thing away from our OLDS!  That must cool to drive 
around.

Dink

!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~
Dink           Dayton, Ohio
80 Olds Delta 88 Royale  MSD, K&N, Dynomax, etc..
http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
- --

------------------------------

From: "Dink" <heinle@jake.udayton.edu>
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 17:30:50 -0300
Subject: Re: What kind of people

> had a little more information but I guess now's as good a time as any...
 
> Whatcha think?
Sounds good to me.

I think this is a great idea, so some of us and get to know each 
other.


Dink

!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~
Dink           Dayton, Ohio
80 Olds Delta 88 Royale  MSD, K&N, Dynomax, etc..
http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
- --

------------------------------

From: "Dal Allan" <dal_allan@mcimail.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 17:21:20 -0300
Subject: re:Convertible_top 

Wow Greg, you're fast!

> My first question would deal with the symptom. A "thunk" and not a 
> "whirrr"? Almost sounds like a relay problem within the pump motor. I 
> understand that from '68 and up they used a separate relay. My '64 had 
> top problems when I got it (bad hose) but the pump would still "whirrr" 
> when you tried it. And you have no fluid... hmmmm, not sure on that.

My suspicion was an internal solenoid but a relay would have a similar 
sound. I can't quite believe GM would have spent the $ to put in an 
interlock for lack of fluid but one never knows.

> Have you tried simply to fill the pump with fluid and give that a try? 

No. Since there is no motor activity other than the thunk, the pump cannot 
prime itself. The Body manual says to prime the reservoir on the bench 
before installing the new motor, and that means I'd have to take the motor 
out. If the motor cycled I'd be a lot further along on diagnosis. 

>                                      one wonders where the old fluid 
> went. At least that would give you a hint if the stuff was being pumped 
> thru the system and escaping somewhere.

It can't be the motor, or I'd see damage in the trunk. I suspect a piston 
but can feel and see no fluid in the window well. Of course, visibility is 
restricted and my hands cannot reach all the way inside because the PW motor 
is in the way. 

>                                 I doubt if my system was ever purged 
> fully, and so far there are no ill effects. I would certainly recommend 
> using trans fluid over brake fluid just for the relative safety if it leaks.

That's good input. Saves me experimenting with DOT 5. 

I'll check into the local shops for the hoses. Unfortunately, custom work is 
low on the list of things done in Northern California, or maybe its just 
Silicon Valley....

Thanks for the pricing, its a steady climb up the cost scale! That bit on 
modifications sure irritates me. The GS is a great looking car from 10' but 
it is not show quality whereas the Olds is a 900-pointer that gets driven 
much more carefully (and parked much further away). Everything I do to it 
keeps originality in mind (it has not prevented a few changes like using 
single piston disc brakes, damn the point penalty!). 

The specialist convertible companies appeal more strongly than Year One, and 
I'll check into both. Thanks for the numbers, it will save me hunting 
through Hemmings. 

As for the rebuild, that is appealing because it should cost less and fit 
back in place exactly. As this is now our dry season there is no chance of 
the car getting wet unless someone turns on a hose. It gives me time to get 
things like a rebuild done.

> When mine was disabled originally you could manhandle the top up and down 
> with a helper; I suspect that while the spring-loaded manual top might 
> require less effort, I doubt it is easy given the size of the thing. 

My thoughts too. I never knew it even existed until I read the Body book.

Thanks,

Dal 

------------------------------

From: hpnaepflin@CCGATE.HAC.COM
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 22:52:54 -0300
Subject: RE:  Convertible_top 

Dal,

Regarding your 67 Conv. top problems;

I've got a 70 Cutlass Convertible and don't know what is and isn't the same on a 
67.  But here goes.

I had my pump/motor rebuilt by some guy in florida who advertized in Hemmings, 
$79 and has worked well so far.  Check Hemmings, sorry, don't have the name or 
address.

To get the motor off, spray WD40 (or similar) all over the grommets and pry with 
a small screw driver.  Got 2outa3 off in one piece.  I just ran a small bolt 
thru the broken one and it holds fine.
  
If you stand on the back seat and pull up on the header bow you can get the top 
up manually.  Really have to heave if the system is full of fluid,  may be 
easier in your case ;)   Makes it easier to get at the top pump at least on the 
'70 you can get at it thru the trunk under the well cover.

I fried my motor when the top switch got stuck.  BTW the top rocker switch on 
the '70 is the same as the Vista Cruiser rear window switch so I've snagged a 
couple at the pick-a-parts when I've come accross them.

Mine has had ATF as long as I've had it, don't know of any problems with mixing 
BF and ATF.  Since you lost a lot of fluid suddenly, I think it's time to remove 
the back seat a side panels to check for major leaks after you get yer pumpmotor 
rebuilt. 

The procedure for adding fluid to the system is to pop the rubber plug on the 
resevoir and make some kind of tight fitting hose that goes into the plug hole 
with the other end siphoning out of a jar (or bottle) of ATF.  Naturally the 
reservoir should be full initially, a big syringe or turkey baster works well 
for this.  Have somebody cycle the top while you keep the siphon hose stuck to 
the reservoir.  keep cycling until there aren't alot of bubbles in the lines and 
the top goes up and down well.

Regarding those plastic lines, has anybody come up with a fix?  I just broke one 
recently and they sure are pricey?

Regarding cylinders, I recently picked a pair off a 68 Caddy that seem to be 
identical to those on my 70 cutlass and seem to be in good shape, no apparant 
signs of leakage.  If you need one or both, I'll part with em for alot less than 
the new price.

Good Luck!  hans

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 18:08:33 -0300
Subject: Re: What kind of people

Mike Frederick wrote:
> 
> Funny this discussion came up.  I had sent Greg Beaulieu a message a
> week or so ago asking what he thought about some type of registry for the
> group: Names, cars owned, interest, skills, etc.  So we were looking in
> how it might work, what CCN can do, etc.
> 
> I had planned to bring it up to y'all (In live in FL now, not PA) when we
> had a little more information but I guess now's as good a time as any...
> 
> Whatcha think?
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> I've been in love with cars since I could see one.  I played the name the cars by sight and sound as a child.  My grandfather took me to all 
the new car openings and I collected everything they would give away.  
This was all somehow lost when I went to the Army.

I bought some nice cars as an adult - 1963 Plymouth Sport Fury, 1966 
Plymouth Satellite 4-speed, 1968 Camaro SS396, 1969 AMX 390 4-speed, 
1970 GS Stage-1 - and then got into the family station wagon thing 
(Olds), but I kept the 1969 AMX.  

I graduated from Michigan with an Army commission.  When I returned, I 
went to grad school and taught special ed for 25 years.  Retired from 
Alabama, I am now looking for a job in TN, MS, NC, or GA.

A few years ago, my wife talked me into buying a derelict 1962 Olds 
Jetfire.  I had a great time getting the turbo to work and have shown it 
since 1976.

That led to that other long list that I introduced myself with including 
a 1968 4-4-2 4-speed convertible and a 1967 Toronado.  I bought cars all 
these years with little fixing up because of those rare problems of 
money, kids, job, house, lawn, school. etc. that most of you don't know 
anything about.

Retired, I am into getting something done with those things in my barn 
and garage.  If I hadn't volunteered so much for the schools and 
everyone else, I would have gotten much farther.  I now have a Jetfire 
with the camshaft in repair, 4-4-2 with engine detailing and interior 
restoration, GS with a complete redo, Dodge convertible with an engine 
rebuild, and a Toronado with paint and interior restoration.

I'm having a wonderful time though.  I have to hurry as I may get a 
chance to teach in China in a year or two and I want to enjoy those cars 
a little.

Bill

------------------------------

From: Jeff Hunter <jchunter@xcelco.on.ca>
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 00:55:02 -0300
Subject: Online Meetings 

Hi Folks....
        
        With all this talk of getting to know each other, I thought an
online meeting would allow us to learn about each other more than anything
else.  I have gone ahead with this a bit, and registered an 'Oldsmobile'
channel on the DALnet IRC network.
        I was thinking of having a meeting this Thursday (May 2nd), at 8:00
PM EST with the possibility of this becoming a recurring event.  Any ideas
on how often?
        If you are interested in this please let me know, and I will send
you information on how to download and configure mIRC, and get on to a
DALnet server.  Also included will be a list of all DALnet servers.
        I think this would be a great opportunity for all us Oldsmobile
Mailing List people to get together....

Thanks,
Jeff Hunter
jchunter@xcelco.on.ca

------------------------------

From: Bob Valentine <ravalent@liii.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 01:11:05 -0300
Subject: Re: Convertible_top

On Sun, 28 Apr 1996, Dal Allan wrote:

> Help needed from those of you who have worked with convertible tops.

> Its got to be the wiring, right? 

> Being a thirty year old car with degraded connections probably means reduced 
> current flow and not enough power for the motor to turn over. The fix that 
> appealed was to buy a 30V relay and run a fused wire directly from the 
> battery to provide full current when the relay is energized. 

     I haven't yet had that happen on my '71, but I've had the switch go 
bad.   I put two 40 amp relays in to take the place of the switch - 
Voila! - that switch won't be going bad again.   This also will feed more 
juice to the motor.   I don't know about your '67, but the switch for my 
'71 is made of unobtanium.   

> Not a drop of fluid in sight. Check for leak, check for evidence of a leak. 

> Brake fluid has to be one of the nastiest things around. A splash of it can 
> ruin a brand new paint job. It can destroy upholstery. Based on this ability 
> to destroy almost everything in a car, one would expect a leak to leave a 
> trail of decimation that was easy to spot. No such luck, no sign anywhere of 
> fluid loss yet the lines have no fluid in them. 

    I'll bet that the seal between the pump and the motor went bad.   
You've probably got a motor full of oil - that has happened to me with 
TWO pumps - one of which was a "rebuilt".   I now yank it apart 1x a year 
to make sure the seal is ok.

>  - Does a thunk mean the motor is near death so a full transplant is needed? 

    Most likely case.  Sorry.  8^(   If you pull the pump, take the 
resivour off, dis-assemble the pump and see if you can turn the motor - 
if it turns, just cleaning may help.  If it's frozen, replace it.

    In either case, I'd try to disassemble the motor before condemming 
it.  It's a fairly simple motor, and you would be suprised what they'll 
do with a little cleaning.  I pick up any top motor at the swaps for less 
than $10 - I get about half to work, and use half of them for parts.  The 
most common problem I see is that there is debris or gunk clogging the 
gears in the pump.  Clean it out and it usually comes back to life.  The 
old brake fluid ones are usually in worse shape the the Dextron ones.

>  - Since I am into pain already, would it be wise to replace the cylinders 
>    anyway? 

     I've got the original lines and cyl's in my '71 - and it is/was far 
from a well maintained car.   Preventative maintance is always a good 
thing however.   

>  - Were the lines always stiff and unyielding, or have they become stiff and 
>    brittle with age so that using them is inviting trouble? 

     I've always wondered this.  

>  - Does anybody have experience with getting their unit rebuilt?

     Yes - I paid $79 to a local "restoration" shop to do it, and the 
unit burned out 6 months later - they never replaced the pump-to-motor 
seal.  Got a 2nd one and it never had enough pressure - top was painfully 
slow.    
     I finally got one from a junkyard that must have been taken out in 
about 1973 or so from a 1970 car - brand new except for about 1/4" of 
grease and grime.   Princely sum of $30 - works great.  ;^)

> P.S. Has anybody out there got a manual top? I've never seen one operating 
> but there are springs to help. Does it take two people to put it up, or is 
> it easy to operate from one side? The mechanism is described in the Body 

    A real manual or a fake?  The real ones can easily be put up by 
one person on one side.  Fake (aka removed hydraulic system) is 
accompished by one person standing on the back seat doing the 
clean-and-jerk.   Hehehe.... memories of my first Olds.  ('72 Cutlass)

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                    --> ravalent@liii.com  <--
        "Experience varies directly with equipment ruined"

------------------------------

From: "Dink" <heinle@jake.udayton.edu>
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 00:23:01 -0300
Subject: Re: Online Meetings

>         I was thinking of having a meeting this Thursday (May 2nd), 
> at 8:00 PM EST
That's great, but I won't have an ISP by then.

> with the possibility of this becoming a recurring event.  Any ideas
> on how often?
Umm, other groups i'm on have them weekly.

>         If you are interested in this please let me know, and I will send
Yep, i'm interested.  On another list we convinced a guy to buy an 
exhaust and other toys, while we were chating, from summit. :) The power 
of intimidation!!

Sounds great.


Dink

!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~
Dink           Dayton, Ohio
80 Olds Delta 88 Royale  MSD, K&N, Dynomax, etc..
http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
- --

------------------------------

From: Willie Fruean <aceface@ohana.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 04:34:56 -0300
Subject: Re: stalling

I am going through the same problem right now. I can't seem to find out 
what is wrong. All know is that after a while my car will start to bog 
out and then die. I won't be able to start it for a while. When I look at 
my in line fuel filter I don't see any gas going through it. I have to 
wait a while and then she'll start. Fuel pump and carb are OK. Someone 
told me that it might be caused by air in my line between my tank and my 
pump? If so, how can I get rid of this?


Willie

------------------------------

From: clark@sh28.dseg.ti.com (Pat Clark 952-3776)
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 09:15:03 -0300
Subject: Swap Meet Report and other stuff

	As was mentioned friday, I went to the Pate swap meet (south of Ft. Worth Tx) this weekend. Didn't see diddly for Olds parts but they did have some olds
cars in the Car Corral. Is it just me or is there some type of sickness going
around that makes whoever owns the car believe it is made of gold? Example;
73 Dodge Dart slant six four door (low mileage woo-woo),the guy wants 4500 for
it! (dollars not pennies!). If the car was a low interest (read not mustang,
camaro etc...) daily driver it was 2500. If it was a more popular car (cutlass,
chevelle, etc..) in the same condition it was around 4500. really nice cars were
in the 8-9000 range and very nice cars were 10-15k! and I'm not talking show 
cars either. 

	Off on another subject, was driving around this weekend and noticed the
front end of a car under a cover in a pole barn behind someone's house. Sure
looks like a 65 cutlass from far away. Get the guys name off of the mailbox.
Call him that evening and find out that it is his brothers. "Its an Olds 
convertible, don't know what model or year he say's" get brother's number and
give him a call. He is not in but wife says its a 66 delta 88 ragtop. restored
it 10 years ago, would probably sell it. After I express my dissapointment to 
her that it is not a cutlass (sorry delta guys) she takes my number and says
she'll get her husband to call me. If this thing is in daily driver shape what
kind of price range is good for this thing?

	On the subject of what type of person I am. Will turn 30 in may. Married
for 7 years in may. Have a 6 mo. old son and a 27 year old 442. I work as a 
design engineer (BSME mech eng UTA) for Texas Instruments. Don't have a computer
at home so I guess I am not a computer geek. Spend most of my spare time playing
softball and raising my son. Squeek in time to work on my car (whicb I drive to
work every day) whenever I can.

          ___              ___        _________
         /   |            /   |      /         \
        /    |           /    |     |   ___    |
       /     |          /     |     |__|   |   |
      /      |         /      |           /   /   
     /       |        /       |          /   /   
    /   /|   |       /   /|   |         /   /
   /   /_|   |__    /   /_|   |__      /   /
  |             |  |             |    /   /
  |______     __|  |______     __|   /   /_____
         |   |            |   |     |          |      Pat Clark
         |___|            |___|     |__________|       69 442
						      400/400

   "Just your average 300+hp garage hogging, gas sucking, money pit"

------------------------------

From: Mike Shokouhi <mvs@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 11:08:09 -0300
Subject: Re: Body to frame (2)?

Thanks for the comments,

My friends must be smaller than Jeff's, it took 8 guys AND a Hoist to 
get my body off!

I still have not decided on which approach to take, coin flip time?

I guess I'll have to discuss it further with the body guy - 
unfortunately I have to deal with him via long distance from London. 

Thnx again,
 
Mike

------------------------------

From: Mike Shokouhi <mvs@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 11:10:54 -0300
Subject: Wanted: oilpan for '69 455

Does anyone have a nice oilpan for a '69 455, it's for a H/O.  The 
current one has the usual dings and it won't look right after the 
cars restored.

Thnx,

Mike

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 12:28:33 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Ign. Resistors 

          
My 1962 Jetfire has a ballist resistor and hasn't had any trouble yet.  
I have seen 1963 Jetfire's with them.  Olds must have gotten a better 
idea later as my 1968 4-4-2 doesn't use one.
                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
          
          The later cars (I'm not sure of the exact year) use a 
          resistor wire in the harness instead of the ceramic unit.  
          This is the wire which connects the coil to the "RUN" 
          position on the ignition switch (as opposed to the "START" 
          position, which does not use resistance).  This is why there 
          are two wires going to that side of the coil.
          
          The theory is that some resistance is necessary to drop the 
          voltage to the points to let them live longer, however the 
          full voltage is preferred for the initial startup.  Thus, 
          with the ignition switch in the "START" position, the full 
          voltage is applied to the points; once the key is turned to 
          "RUN", the voltage is dropped through the resistor (either 
          the external ceramic or the internal resistor wire).  This 
          also leads the the famous failure mode of the car starting 
          then dying as soon as the key is released.  Usually this is 
          a result of a break in the "RUN" wire or the resistor.
          
          If my feeble memory serves, this resistance is fairly low, 
          like around 10 ohms.  The other thing to note (and this has 
          probably been posted in the past) is that if you convert to 
          a HEI unit, you must remove the resistance and run a regular 
          wire to the HEI unit.
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: eda@dl.tc.faa.gov
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 12:24:38 -0300
Subject: AUGH! Cooling problems 

This relates to my '84 Hurst/Olds.  Background first.  Last summer,
cruising on the expressway, car overheats, towed to shop.  Cooling system checked, flushed, etc., no leaks, new thermostat installed.  Not sure of
rating, but car seems to run a bit warm.  Winter comes, forget about it.  Weather gets warm again, notice on a couple long/hard runs, temp guage reading close to that 220 mark, hmmm.  Yesterday, driving around, got on it a bit went to store.  Come out of store, drive home. (couple miles)
Park, uh-oh, what's all this steam?  Seems to be blowing out the cap.  Add a little to the overflow bottle, drive a couple miles to my brother's, let car cool, drive home.  More steam, antifreeze all over.

So, I'm thinking, new cap and thermostat?  Opinions?  Also, any of you 84 H/O guys know what temperature thermostat I should be running, and what cap?  Cap on there now is 15 lbs.  And does pushing the 220 line sound normal, in warm but not hot weather?  I'm not all that comfortable with it, but I don't know.

I'd appreciate any replies cc'd to email, as I'm on digest mode & I need to fix this tonight.

Ed Atlee			'77 Cutlass Supreme
eda@dl.tc.faa.gov		'84 Hurst/Olds
	R O C K E T	P O W E R E D ! !

------------------------------

From: "Andrew A. Senko" <senko@reston.ans.net>
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 12:41:34 -0300
Subject: Cars and bars

Here in Northern Virginia, we have a couple of bars with car themes.  The
first one that comes to mind is Bardo's.  They took an old Oldsmobile(!)
dealership and converted it to a brewpub.

[Editor's note:  that's the last mention of Oldsmobile in this message.]

They keep about six different brews on tap that they brew in-house.  Then
there's the other 94 taps of beer.
The front entrance is through the showroom.  They have a car that is about
1/3 inside this room, and 2/3 outside the building.  The glass of the
showroom window has been cut to fit around the car.  The car is some early
60's Mopar.  It's pretty cool looking.  And they've built a CD jukebox into
the car.  If memory serves, it's operated from controls in/near the left
front fender.
The main workshop area has many tables and some large brew kettles.
They're interesting to look at.  The men's room is interesting too.  It has
the large round sink in the middle --- the kind that about six guys (or
gals) could stand around and wash their hands simultaneously --- where you
have to step on a bar near the floor to start the water flowing.  The water
squirts down from a post in the middle of the circle.  I can't remember a
time I've been there that some idiot(s) didn't mistake this for a urinal.
Uh, guy's do you think they designed this so you could have a conversation
while you relieve yourself?  The urinals are over there... on the wall.
This is the sink!
Also, it seems they took whatever large parts and metal was laying around
when they bought the place and used it to help furnish it.  The base of
your table may be a wheel, or the table legs are large metal slabs from who
knows what, that were cut/welding into shape for a table.
They used to have about four pool tables.   Now they have about 24.  I
think they've won some awards for their beers.

The other place, is called Carpool.  This building was a gas station I
think ---  definitely something car related.  So they have pictures of cars
all over the place.  They have what looks like original sales pictures
hanging from the ceiling in one room.  And of course, they have pool
tables, hence, Carpool.

Now don't get the idea that these places are filled with gear heads.  No no
no.  They are filled with young singles looking to mingle, flirt, play
pool.  You might call them yuppies.  I'd call 'em that, but I'm one of
them --- and I never liked the yuppie image.
- --                                                               _
Drew Senko                                                       |\
senko@reston.ans.net              Convertibles    .__====-_._____|_\______
http://members.gnn.com/senko          Rule!       [   ___  |-     |  ___  \
'71 Cutlass Supreme convertible                   =\_//.\\_|______|_//.\\__)
______________________________________________________\_/____________\_/_____

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 11:40:06 -0300
Subject: Re: AUGH! Cooling problems

>This relates to my '84 Hurst/Olds. [...]
>Park, uh-oh, what's all this steam?  Seems to be blowing out the cap.

Get a new cap, or at least pressure-test the old one. It sounds like it
is not holding pressure, and allowing the coolant to boil. You may also
have a mixture that's something other than 50/50 coolant/water. Too much
water, combined with too little pressure, can allow it to boil; too much
coolant will hurt heat transfer and allow it to overheat.

>Add a little to the overflow bottle,

Um, why? At that time what the car needed more was coolant in the radiator.
It won't be drawing anything from the overflow bottle until

1) It's shut off and starts to cool, _and_
2) The air pockets in the radiator have been cleared out by properly and
fully filling the radiator/cooling system. If there's a big air pocket
formed by leaking coolant and boiling steam in the top of the radiator,
it won't be able to draw anything from the overflow tank as it cools.

>So, I'm thinking, new cap and thermostat?  Opinions?

Forget the thermostat; I think you want to focus on keeping pressure in
the system and verifying that you have a good mix of coolant.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 11:59:31 -0300
Subject: Re: AUGH! Cooling problems

I wrote:
[...]
>Forget the thermostat; I think you want to focus on keeping pressure in
>the system and verifying that you have a good mix of coolant.

Um, I just reread my own posting above and the whole thing reads as if
I'm having an extremely bad day. I'm not. Really. So Ed, sorry if it
sounded like I was lecturing you because I didn't mean to.

Completely irrelevant second paragraph: If you're watching Jay Leno's
Tonight Show from Chicago this week, look out for his segments shot at
Mr. Beef, our local Italian beef place two blocks from the office. Jay
was there a week ago taping a bit where he serves a meal to Siskel &
Ebert. Should be fun.

Promising to sound more cheerful from now on...  :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Dink" <heinle@jake.udayton.edu>
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 14:13:52 -0300
Subject: Re: Cars and bars

> Here in Northern Virginia, we have a couple of bars with car themes.  The
> first one that comes to mind is Bardo's.  They took an old Oldsmobile(!)
> dealership and converted it to a brewpub.

That reminds me, In Dayton there is a Packard Museum inside an 
original Packard dealership.  It's very original, and still has 
offices, showroom, garage area, etc.  It also has a a lot of Packards 
on display, if anybody is interested.


Dink

!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~
Dink           Dayton, Ohio
80 Olds Delta 88 Royale  MSD, K&N, Dynomax, etc..
http://homepages.udayton.edu/students/heinle/
- --

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 13:12:25 -0300
Subject: misc stuffs

Songs-
Did anyone mention "Drive" by The Cars? Seems to fit in title if not content.

Toro Prefs: I'd have to say the '66-67's have the best blocks, the 67's have
the best heads, any others up thru Oh, '72 or so still have big-valve heads and
those 'windage trays' and the extra-capacity oil pan. Oh, wait, you guys were
sort of thinking of them as driving cars, and concerned with the aesthetics of
the form of the sheetmetal & such, huh? Not just engine donors... :)

Finding electrical problems via tracing smoke:
A friend of mine has the theory that electrical and electronic items are
actually powered by smoke. As proof, he offers the observation that when the
smoke 'escapes' from such items, they generally no longer work. :) This is the
same guy who came up with "We're cheaper, because we're not as good" and
"Towing in UNDER 24 hours!"...

Ign resistor-
Olds pts-ign systems have a [ballast] resistor of some sort, if  not the
ceramic mounted coil o' wire, then a resistor wire with a funny colored
insulation built into the wiring harness, as on my '68's. Generally goes from
the firewall jxn block to the coil, though Bryce & I now know that some of them
'65-66 big cars had no jxn block/ fuse block on the firewall, but instead ran
all the wires thru a grommet uninterrupted.

Plugs-
I have in my posession a couple of spark plugs with no conventional side
electrode. They resemble the 'ring of fire'
   ** waxes into Johny Cash impersonation... "I fell into a burning ring of
fire, I went down, down, down, and the flames went higher, and it burns, burns,
burns, that Ring of Fire...."    recovers, back to reality**
                                              described so well here, but the
outer ring is not slotted, just continuous. Says "AC Marine" and a number on
'em. Came out of a scrap engine I think. Another Old Racer's Trick?

Expect to be aquiring a '74 or 75 H/O to part out soon. Haven't seen it yet, my
brother says it's beat, but has roof band, dual gate, engine, buckets, etc.

Lansing Swap Meet-
I suppose I'll be there. Offering C heads to the masses. Great swap meet for
the Olds fan, as there are not dozens of F & C &c vendors to wade thru... Last
year, I got a set of adjustable pushrods there for $80, like new, original cost
$140... Not bad.

- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: urbanch@magi.com (Chris Urban)
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 13:15:00 -0300
Subject: Re: Wanted: oilpan for '69 455 

I have a few if your referring to stock pans?


>Does anyone have a nice oilpan for a '69 455, it's for a H/O.  The 
>current one has the usual dings and it won't look right after the 
>cars restored.
>
>Thnx,
>
>Mike
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 14:46:11 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: stalling 

I had this same sort of problem on my Delta.  It progressively got worse to 
where in a week, the car wouldn't restart.  Luckily, I thought the fuel pump was
going so I had bought one.  The pump might flow ok when cold, and should be able
to flow ok when hot.  I would get another and try it.  Check/replace the carb's 
filter also.

For removing the sending unit holddown ring, soak it with some penetrating oil  
or brake fluid overnight to loosen the rust.  Use a large diameter punch to tap 
on each tab until it moves a bit.  Then use a block of wood.  Work around in a 
cirlce as the ring will flex and move.  Breaking the tabs is a pain.  Use the 
block of wood when reinstalling the ring.

- -----------------
I am going through the same problem right now. I can't seem to find out 
what is wrong. All know is that after a while my car will start to bog 
out and then die. I won't be able to start it for a while. When I look at 
my in line fuel filter I don't see any gas going through it. I have to 
wait a while and then she'll start. Fuel pump and carb are OK. Someone 
told me that it might be caused by air in my line between my tank and my 
pump? If so, how can I get rid of this?

Willie

------------------------------

From: Doug McClanahan <mcclan@wsdot.wa.gov>
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 14:05:57 -0300
Subject: For a laugh

You guys (and gals) have to check this site out:
http://www.cartalk.com/
These are the two obnoxious NPR radio personalities that sound like they 
are from Jersey.  They are always messin' with people that call in.  Some 
one should write them with their olds problems to see what kind of 
response they offer.  They are probably tired of hearing from those F*rd 
guys who are always calling so I'm sure they will welcome an Olds 
question.

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 07:09:32 -0300
Subject: Re: AUGH! Cooling problems 

     A new cap and thermostat would be where I'd start.  The '84 H/O is 
     supposed to take a 195 degree thermostat.  I have a 180 degree "high 
     flow" model I got from the local speed shop in mine.  The opening on 
     the high flow model is much larger than standard.  Going to a 
     high-flow helped a cooling problem on my '79 Cutlass, so I figured it 
     couldn't hurt, and as long as I was changing thermostats anyways. . .  
     
     Adding Red Line's Watter Wetter to the system solved the problem on my 
     '79.  I'd recommend that product to anyone who asks, worked great for 
     me!  If I understand the theory right, Watter Wetter lowers the 
     surface tension of your coolant, making it much harder for bubbles to 
     form.  These tiny bubbles attach themselves to the inside of your 
     radiator and you lose efficiency since heat can't transfer through the 
     bubbles nearly as easily.
     
     First, since there's not many numbers on the '84's gauge I'll assume 
     it's linear and we will call the 1/4 mark 160 degrees and 3/8's would 
     be 190 just for reference.  Going to a 180 degree thermostat brought 
     the temperature down from 190-200 to 170-190 (depending upon outside 
     temperature) just as you'd expect it to.  Highest I've had it climb 
     since then was about 200-210 degrees, during a long 75mph drive during 
     80-85 degree weather.  It held steady at that point and never got any 
     hotter, so I'm prepared to call that "normal".  No steam or boilover.  
     It had gotten up to the 220 mark regularly with the 195 thermostat, 
     but at that point (when I bought the car) the cooling system needed 
     flushed very badly too.
     
     On the 307 old's with idiot lights, the idiot light isn't set to come 
     on until 258 degrees.  Which is just about where the red portion of 
     the gauge starts.  So I think you're safe at 220 degrees.  How is your 
     coolant?  It should be at least 30 percent antifreeze, up to 50 
     percent if you're in a cold area.  I use distilled water, our tap 
     water here is pretty hard, but it's probably not necessary, I'm just 
     paranoid.
     
     Then again with these factory gauges, who knows.  Yours may read 30 
     degrees different than mine.
     
     Tom L.

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: AUGH! Cooling problems
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    4/29/96 9:09 AM


 gets warm again, notice on a couple long/hard runs, temp guage reading close to 
that 220 mark, hmmm.  Yesterday, driving around, got on it a bit went to store. 
Come out of store, drive home. (couple miles)
Park, uh-oh, what's all this steam?  Seems to be blowing out the cap.  Add a 
litt le to the overflow bottle, drive a couple miles to my brother's, let car 
cool, dr ive home.  More steam, antifreeze all over.
     
So, I'm thinking, new cap and thermostat?  Opinions?  Also, any of you 84 H/O 
guy s know what temperature thermostat I should be running, and what cap?  Cap 
on the re now is 15 lbs.  And does pushing the 220 line sound normal, in warm 
but not ho t weather?  I'm not all that comfortable with it, but I don't know.

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #161
********************************

