
oldsmobile-digest      Monday, December 15 1997      Volume 01 : Number 1010



Re: Sad Rad
LA Junkyards,Chrome SSIII
Re: Quad 4 with no PCV(used to be head gasket)
Re: Sad Rad
Re: Quad 4 head gaskets
Re: Sad Rad
Re: Sad Rad
Re: $85 valve covers?
SSIII rims on an 87 Cutlass Supreme
Re: Quad 4 head gaskets
Re: Question about HEI Dstrbtrs
A little humor and off the wall question.
Re: Quad 4 head gaskets
more parts
Re: Bad break booster blues
Re: Quad 4 head gaskets (long)
Re: Quad 4 head gaskets
Re: SSIII rims on an 87 Cutlass Supreme
Re: A little humor and off the wall question.
My appologies.
Re: Intake Manifold Question
Re: SSIII rims on an 87 Cutlass Supreme
Quad 4 foam
Quad 4 Ignition
Re: 6sp\442, dist cap
Re: harmonic balancers
Re: Quad 4 Ignition
Re: (youngeter's retort) Re: sounds
Old Racer's Trick
Re: (youngeter's retort) Re: sounds
project availab;ele
Quad 4 with no PCV
Re: Quad 4 with no PCV
Re: Quad 4 head gaskets (long)
Re: SSIII rims on an 87 Cutlass Supreme
Re: Quad 4 with no PCV
Re: Sad Rad
Re: Valve Train Blues
Re: A little humor and off the wall question.
Clutch problems.
Re: Intake Manifold Question
Re: off the wall question.
Re: G-body SSIII's
Re: Intake Manifold Question
Re: (youngeter's retort) Re: sounds
Re: SSIII rims on an 87 Cutlass Supreme
Re: Intro and Olds 350 questions
Re: Cork Vs. Rubber ?
Re: Sad Rad
Re: bearing packer
Re: A little humor and off the wall question.
Re: Sad Rad
Re: A little humor and off the wall question.
Searching for 73 Cutlass
Re: To Frame Off or not to frame off
Re: The one that got away

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 17:31:29 -0500
From: MROTHE <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Sad Rad

> <SNIP> Anyone have any idea what
> this extra fitting might possibly be used for?
> 
Hmmm.  Amazingly, my radiator in the GMC truck has this also.  Right
below the neck and above the tranny cooler.  The return heater hose
attaches to this, as if the chevy BB engines forgot to include a fitting
on their water pumps for this very purpose.  Works OK though....

- -- 
Mike Rothe
69 H/O
71 442 HT
85 442 T-top
76 GMC 1/2 ton, 502 c.i.

http://pages.prodigy.net/mrothe/rocket.html

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 97 14:47:31 PST8
From: hpnaepflin@CCGATE.HAC.COM
Subject: LA Junkyards,Chrome SSIII

Just happened to find a set of 4 chrome CENTER 15" SSIIIs on a mid 80s D88 in a
yard in Wilmington this morning.  All four wheels appeared straight but with
crappy tires and no trim rings or center caps.  They are similar to ordinary
SSIIIs except that the center part is chrome and the area where the bezels would
snap on is smooth with no little ridge around the rim of the hole.  The outer
rim part is that grey/silver Argent color.  They had the later style snap on
center cap provision, but no caps.  If anybody in the LA area is interested they
are at the Ecology on north Eubanks in Wilmington.

Are these anything special, worth my time to go back and get them? (its about 15
min away).  Figger they cost about $15-20 each.

In the same yard there was a nearly complete 68 Toro, white, black trashed
interior.  Apparantly not Comfortron.  C heads on a BB (painted blue).

Also a 70 Skylark with nice complete buckets, including backs and headrests. 
Some rips but the foam seemed pretty complete.  I snagged a disk rotor off this
one.  It also had some nice SSI style Buick wheels, are these related to Olds
SSIs?

I noticed that some disk rotors have radial holes (bout .7" dia) drilled thru
the setback part of the casting between the disk and where the bearins go.  What
is this for and are these rotors better than the plain kind, which I got because
my current rotors don't have these holes?

Hans

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 17:45:26 -0500
From: MROTHE <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Quad 4 with no PCV(used to be head gasket)

> 
> The quad 4's are very unconventional engines.  seems not many people know
> about these engines and assumed the foamy stuff is bad.  The foam is
> normal to a certain degree. 

To a certain degree???  And when do you make that cutoff?  I sure would
like someone to EXPLAIN this to me.  Just saying the CV system is there
doesn't explain it.  HOW does this system work (my first impression: not
very effective if you get foam).  Foam in the oil system is never proven
to be good.  Just like for the convertible owners; try bubbles of air in
your top's hydraulic cylinder and see what happens.  If air is
introduced to the bearings, it will displace oil, and I don't need to go
further on this, for we all know what happens to bearings without oil.

It is time for the "youngmobile pocket rocket" owners to enlighten us
"dinosaurs" who live in the Land of the Relatively Foamless.  I'm
confused.  Help me, Obiwan-Kenobi, you're my only hope...

- -- 
Mike Rothe
69 H/O
71 442 HT
85 442 T-top
76 GMC 1/2 ton, 502 c.i.

http://pages.prodigy.net/mrothe/rocket.html

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 17:50:05 -0500
From: MROTHE <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Sad Rad

> 
> Not sure about your car (78 Delta?), but at least from 75-76, full size
> Olds' came with an optional low-coolant sensor which plugged into the rad

Hey, this answer makes obvious sense.  The less luxurious early iron
Cutlaii have no such feature.  Ahhh, those big cars, they get all the
cool toys.....

- -- 
Mike Rothe
69 H/O
71 442 HT
85 442 T-top
76 GMC 1/2 ton, 502 c.i.

http://pages.prodigy.net/mrothe/rocket.html

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 18:44:12 -0500
From: AEROTECH <jev114@email.psu.edu>
Subject: Re: Quad 4 head gaskets

>were sitting pretty at 125,000 on the car?  If so, how'd you put 140,000
>on the motor (saying you changed the head gasket at the factory), and
>only 125000 on the car?  I am confused now.

no jerry you have me confused with the other Q4 guy Mike Coccagna(sp)
he has 126K mi on his car. mine is at 200K miles and i just recently
changed the motor to the HO Q4. so i was speaking of my old engine. my car
has never been in any shop, and never will. i would not trust any mechanic
to work on my Q4, cuz most of them like to take short cuts and Half ###
things. that's partially the whole reason people continue to have head
gasket trouble with the Q4. i'll explain the CV and ignition stuff when i
get more time. I;m studying my tail off here now for finals.

think jerry, if GM wanted to put corosion inhibitor in every car they made,
how much money would that translate to? too much right? 
futhermore, they don't care cuz you can exceed the waranty period 
without things like aluminized radiator additive, so in their eyes it's not
needed. i think you will agree once you see the big picture, from the GM
viewpoint. how much would 1 dollar to every vehicle add? millions probably.
i wouldn't put it in either how bout you. it's preventative maintenance,
mainly for aluminum headed motors.

Later
AEROTECH

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 19:02:15 -0500 (EST)
From: Kevin Wong <brougham@geocities.com>
Subject: Re: Sad Rad

Hi Graham,

> dash light to flash and an alarm to sound.  I've seen rads with these extra
> holes in a few wrecking yards, but I always figured that it would be pretty
> hard to find an aftermarket supplier who'd include the fitting for it in

A new 3-row 31" core Modine (HD upgrade over the original 2-row) purchased
for my '88 Brougham also had that extra fitting in the passenger side
tank.  It came with a screw-plug already attached.  Canadian Tire carries
Modine; this one cost over $300.

Kevin Wong       mailto:brougham@geocities.com       Toronto, Ontario, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 20:14:14 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Sad Rad

On Sun, 14 Dec 1997, Kevin Wong wrote:
> A new 3-row 31" core Modine (HD upgrade over the original 2-row) purchased
> for my '88 Brougham also had that extra fitting in the passenger side
> tank.  It came with a screw-plug already attached.  Canadian Tire carries
> Modine; this one cost over $300.

Thanks guys; a low-coolant sensor huh? I had a different kind; with the 
old rad I was alerted to low coolant by the puddles in my driveway...

Actually there were *2* fittings: the upper one which I used the plug on, 
which used a 3/4" wrench, and another one lower down, much smaller, which 
was already plugged. Don't know what that one was doing there.

Interesting pricing; I don't know if mine is 31", but I called Canadian 
Tire and was quoted a little over $200 for the 403/AC/HD cooling version; 
my buddy at the parts store sold me this one for the same application for 
$179. Maybe they charge more for Caddy rads?

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 19:25:23 -0500
From: Joe & Toni Artwell <tjf26@gte.net>
Subject: Re: $85 valve covers?

Chris Brown Witt wrote:
> 
> Once I complete this job, I'd like to sell the chrome valve covers that
> are currently on my car.  Both are in EC without rubber grommets.  $85.
> for the pair. Shipping included.
> RC Hellebuyck
> ===============
> Is that a typo?
> Seems a bit steep to me.
> --
> Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
> *the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
>          >>> Please snip the excess lines from posts <<<
I've seen these at many a swap meet for $35.00.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 19:27:01 -0500
From: Jerry Christopher <IThEFunKI@ViperLink.Net>
Subject: SSIII rims on an 87 Cutlass Supreme

On my Cutlass, I am beginning to like the idea of seeing SSIII Mags
holding the air in the tires as opposed to a set of Cragars...  With the
possibility of 14 inch Cragars, I had an option to "chicken out".  SSIII
rims (I hope I am right) are 15 inch wheels, this brings me to my
question.

What will I need to do to mount tires on these mamas, and not throw the
speed-o into a wild uncalibrated frenzy???  

Will I need a SPECIFIC Tire size for the rear?  
Will I need to get another speedometer gear?
Will I need to get a big bottle of Pepto-Bismal, and a pack of Rolaids?
Will our hero live through this torture?

Join us next time when we hear me say, "Oh my god, They killed Kenny"
- -- 
             		    Jerry Christopher
     ___        HTTP://WWW2.Viperlink.Net/Members/IThEFunKI
 ___/.o \__, 	     1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
_=O------O=__________It ain't my father's Oldsmobile_______

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 19:20:11 -0500
From: MROTHE <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Quad 4 head gaskets

> <snip> i'll explain the CV and ignition stuff when i
> get more time. I;m studying my tail off here now for finals.

We'll be here a waitin....
> 
> <snip> i think you will agree once you see the big picture, from the GM
> viewpoint. 

I'm not sure if GM views are as you describe, but the old GM addage of
"a part that can safely be left out causes no problems" comes to mind.
GM spends more each year than you can make in a lifetime on research and
development of manufacturing cars faster, better, and cheaper.  And
every bit of that cost is reflected on the sticker prices.....so do they
care if they add a bucks worth of material to the cars?  No, they just
raise prices a couple of percent to cover that.  Look what happened when
they mandated air bags.

- -- 
Mike Rothe
69 H/O
71 442 HT
85 442 T-top
76 GMC 1/2 ton, 502 c.i.

http://pages.prodigy.net/mrothe/rocket.html

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 16:28:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Malcolm Gillespie <droptop_69@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Question about HEI Dstrbtrs

- ---Matt Cremean <ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu> wrote:
>snip<
 Does MSD make an HEI dist.?
> 
> Please let me know! I am desperate for info!!

Matt,
Just happen to have MSD's catalog in front of me. Yes they make a
distributor for all Olds V8's. Part no. 8566.
How does $582.89 list and $416.30 Gen. Trade sound? I think this is
what they think it will sell for at retail outlets. It even has a
direct plug in for MSD ignition. I hope so, for that price. Probably
you should stick with the Accel.

==
Mick Gillespie
69 Cutlass convertible
DropTop_69@yahoo.com (temporary e-mail)
http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/mgillespie/oldspage.htm

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 19:32:28 -0500
From: Jerry Christopher <IThEFunKI@ViperLink.Net>
Subject: A little humor and off the wall question.

I am wondering...  I think it would in everyone's relief to get off
topic for a while.......  This is being cross posted to both my lists
(Only the ORIGINAL posting, this one).  The first being the Oldsmobile
List I've grown to like, but the fire proof suit is kind obsurd...  <G>
And the Mustang II List, where the dust bunnies are starting to arrive
<G>.....

I am wondering if I am totally insane when I do this, but I'll ask
anyway, heck the mental hospital is only a few minutes from here...

Does anyone besides me name thier ride?

My Olds is "Alice" - No reason, I just liked the name, and it seems to
like it too...  As opposed to my first thought "Sharky"

And the Mustang II was named - "Sally" - Nevermind the reason... 
hahahaha...
- -- 
             		    Jerry Christopher
     ___        HTTP://WWW2.Viperlink.Net/Members/IThEFunKI
 ___/.o \__, 	     1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
_=O------O=__________It ain't my father's Oldsmobile_______

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 19:48:22 -0500
From: Jerry Christopher <IThEFunKI@ViperLink.Net>
Subject: Re: Quad 4 head gaskets

David, Terri and Rob wrote:
>
> > > Last Q4 head gasket i changed was over 140,000mi ago. must be doing
> > something right,
> > > and one things for certain, this motor is NEVER babied. NEVER was
> > and NEVER will.

> > > How long can your V8 take a beating?
> >
> > Mines at 132,000 and still puuuurs like a kitten.

>    I got a 1994 C-2500 with a 130K on it now....still waiting for it to
> miss a beat....no plugs...no wires...no cap...no rotor...only thing ever
> and lest we forget.....1994 C-2500 (company truck...I just drive it)

I forgot all about it...  What is beat up harder than a drag racing
car???  A RENTAL CAR!!!  Try finding something WORSE scalded...  A
Rental Car Companies City to City Van (If they have one for their
shuttlers like National Car Rental in Charleston, SC does) In fact we
have 2, one on a "Lease" program from Chrysler (A 14 Passenger Van), and
the other we bought BRAND NEW, a 96 Chevy 11 Passenger Van, with a 350
in it...  It's at 129,671 (I changed the oil today) and it still has the
original tires all the way around (will be getting new ones this week
though)  It doesn't even eat any oil between changes....  And the
coolant is still red (GM Long life coolant, shoula been changed 29,000
ago, but oh well)  
- -- 
             		    Jerry Christopher
     ___        HTTP://WWW2.Viperlink.Net/Members/IThEFunKI
 ___/.o \__, 	     1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
_=O------O=__________It ain't my father's Oldsmobile_______

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 19:44:26 EST
From: DR OLDS350 <DROLDS350@aol.com>
Subject: more parts

hi steven
         was wondering if you had any more parts to unload?  could use backup
lite lens,seat belts front and rear and seat belt fastening bolts [to
floor].could also use the chrome piecesthat fit in front of the windshield
they are about4 inches long with rubber on them.also the chrome pieces that
fit on the rear windows  blower cover that fits on the firewall for a nonac
car
                             please let me know  thanks  jim

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 19:46:56 EST
From: ANTIQ OLDS <ANTIQOLDS@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Bad break booster blues

In a message dated 97-12-14 02:04:03 EST, you write:

<< Hemmings has 3 or 4 listed.  The one that caught my eye is out of CA. 
 "STEVE GREGORI"  His ad promises to rebuilt ~AND~ replate your booster
 and master cylinder cover all for $100. with correct show quality.  For
 my 71 4-4-2, I was told originally it was plated gold cad.
 
 Thanks in advance for any feedback!  :)
  >>
    I have done business with Steve and his work is very good. My son has one
of his on his 71 Supreme and I have sold several to friends who are very
satisfied.

Everett  OCA # 1961   1961 Starfire

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 19:59:24 -0500
From: Jerry Christopher <IThEFunKI@ViperLink.Net>
Subject: Re: Quad 4 head gaskets (long)

AEROTECH wrote:
> 
> >were sitting pretty at 125,000 on the car?  If so, how'd you put 140,000
> >on the motor (saying you changed the head gasket at the factory), and
> >only 125000 on the car?  I am confused now.
> 
> no jerry you have me confused with the other Q4 guy Mike Coccagna(sp)
> he has 126K mi on his car. mine is at 200K miles and i just recently
> changed the motor to the HO Q4. so i was speaking of my old engine. 

In which case it was the low end Q4?  As opposed to the high end Q4 that
the gasket question pertained to?  Wouldn't that be like the mid 80's V8
guys talking about hte head gaskets on their 307 "9" motors, and me
saying the head gaskets on my 307 "Y" motor were changed a while back? 
Or me talking about the Cam in my "Y" motor (Y couldn't I get a 9 and be
lucky) and comparing it to the 9 motor Cam?  To me this looks like
apples and oranges...

This also brings up another question...  At exactly what mileage did you
throw the HO Q4 in your ride?  With 200k on it, it poses strange
questions...  If you changed the gasket 140k ago, that would make it at
60K, and the new motor at 200k, this seems like it would be close to the
time span we were talking about	for the gaskets.  If you changed the
gasket at 140, it's still close to the time span were we talking,
elightenment please... <G>

> my car has never been in any shop, and never will. i would not trust any mechanic
> to work on my Q4, cuz most of them like to take short cuts and Half ###
> things. that's partially the whole reason people continue to have head
> gasket trouble with the Q4. 

Not all mechanics are crooked...  Many of them are certified in
different areas, and I would venture to say most, if not all of the
dealer mechanics are either ASE Certified, or GM School Trained, or
both...  Heck, I am getting GM training, and I work for National Car
Rental.  I don't trust anyone BUT the dealer for my Olds. (Yeah, so they
get me going in, and give me a can of vasoline on the way out, but the
car runs, and it's pretty much garunteed...   So many people can't be
going to the same dealer, and GM wouldn't put a Service Bulletin out on
something that is a "mechanic botch".

> i'll explain the CV and ignition stuff when i get more time. I;m studying my tail off > here now for finals.

I'll wait, I wanna see what's different...  I'm always open to new
ideas.
- -- 
             		    Jerry Christopher
     ___        HTTP://WWW2.Viperlink.Net/Members/IThEFunKI
 ___/.o \__, 	     1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
_=O------O=__________It ain't my father's Oldsmobile_______

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 20:14:45 -0500
From: Jerry Christopher <IThEFunKI@ViperLink.Net>
Subject: Re: Quad 4 head gaskets

AEROTECH wrote:

> think jerry, if GM wanted to put corosion inhibitor in every car they made,
> how much money would that translate to? too much right?

No, they put quite a few dollars into covering the interior and exterior
(in places) with plastic that's sole purpose is to keep the interior
clean, and the dirt off the body in transit...  If GM were to put it in
their cars factory wise, bulk is cheaper than bottle...  And it'd only
raised the price like $10 or so...  You forget, GM makes a little money
for everything they put on those cars...  Even the lug nuts, and air bag
stickers.

> futhermore, they don't care cuz you can exceed the waranty period
> without things like aluminized radiator additive, so in their eyes it's not
> needed.

Understood, but if it had a bonus to it say "Anti-Corrosion Treated
Cooling System" maybe tacked up on the list of Standard items, wouldn't
they then beat out the competitors, who don't treat theirs?  In the
process, giving them a whole new angle for advertising???  Does GM sell
a General Motors Anti-Corrosion Coolant Suplement at the dealers??  I do
not know.

>i think you will agree once you see the big picture, from the GM
> viewpoint. how much would 1 dollar to every vehicle add?

Another $10 to the price of the car.

> millions probably. 

With a return of course.

> i wouldn't put it in either how bout you. it's preventative maintenance,
> mainly for aluminum headed motors.

Depends on the VOLUME of sales, if I were an exec, I'd see it like this:

Drive the NEW 1998 Oldsmobile Faux, (GM specs jargon) why drive a
Cavalier, or a Sunfire, when the Faux is the way to go?

1998 Olds - Faux (Built on a J-Body)
Price to dealer: 12,100
Price to customer: 15,150

Ok, it drags a few people in.

Drive the NEW 1998 Oldsmobile Faux, (Gm specs Jargon) All of this is
protected by GM's Anti-Corrosion Treatment, so you're motor will live
long into the 21st century!

Just the "Protected by" will get people in the showrooms... Added Cost
to GM, $1
Price to Dealer: 12,110
Price to end user: 15,175

$10 dollars by a million units is $10 Million added revenue, $9 Million
of it is profit. Supposing GM sold it for $10.  

Everyone gets a cut....  And it'll fool people into believing strange
things... Just by a little wording.
- -- 
             		    Jerry Christopher
     ___        HTTP://WWW2.Viperlink.Net/Members/IThEFunKI
 ___/.o \__, 	     1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
_=O------O=__________It ain't my father's Oldsmobile_______

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 20:23:29 -0500
From: "Jason K. Adcock" <jadcock@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: SSIII rims on an 87 Cutlass Supreme

Jerry Christopher wrote:
>
> possibility of 14 inch Cragars, I had an option to "chicken out".  SSIII
> rims (I hope I am right) are 15 inch wheels

No.  SSIII's are 14".  All of them, right A-Body guys?

> What will I need to do to mount tires on these mamas, and not throw the
> speed-o into a wild uncalibrated frenzy???

Nothing because what you have is already 14".  Just be sure to get a tire
where the tire diameter is similar.  For example, a 235/60R14 is very
similar to a tire the size of 205/70R14. 
_____________________________

Jason K. Adcock
mailto:jadcock@vt.edu
http://www.erols.com/adcockjk

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 20:34:30 -0500
From: jgoble@nishanet.com (Jeramy Goble)
Subject: Re: A little humor and off the wall question.

Jerry Christopher wrote:
> 
> I am wondering...  I think it would in everyone's relief to get off
> topic for a while.......  This is being cross posted to both my lists
> (Only the ORIGINAL posting, this one).  The first being the Oldsmobile
> List I've grown to like, but the fire proof suit is kind obsurd...  <G>
> And the Mustang II List, where the dust bunnies are starting to arrive
> <G>.....
> 
> I am wondering if I am totally insane when I do this, but I'll ask
> anyway, heck the mental hospital is only a few minutes from here...
> 
> Does anyone besides me name thier ride?
> 
> My Olds is "Alice" - No reason, I just liked the name, and it seems to
> like it too...  As opposed to my first thought "Sharky"
> 
> And the Mustang II was named - "Sally" - Nevermind the reason...
> hahahaha...
> --
>                             Jerry Christopher
>      ___        HTTP://WWW2.Viperlink.Net/Members/IThEFunKI
>  ___/.o \__,         1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
> _=O------O=__________It ain't my father's Oldsmobile_______


Hey Jerry,
That's not crazy at all. My Toro is affectionately called the "Beast". 
Can't imagine why, but thats the name she wound up with. I have thought
of getting a personal plate to that effect but no decision yet. Besides
look at some of the names that post on this great site, I mean you
gotta  love them. Later
69 Toro(Beast) and Dawg

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 20:52:45 -0500
From: Jerry Christopher <IThEFunKI@ViperLink.Net>
Subject: My appologies.

I'm not sure if you guys got my posting about the "car names" but I
REALLY botched it on the Mustang II List..  It is sent to "Reply To:"
the Olds list...  So both the II List and the Olds list are subject to
it...  Wouldn't have been so bad, except to II list is gonna end up
bouncing here, just that thread...  I send my humble appologies, and if
you want, I'd be more than happy to stand in the corner and get beat by
wet noddles, and seat cushions....  

I sent a message to the II group telling them not to reply, I HOPE it
works....  

I see the err in my ways...  First I own a Ford, and then this???  <G>
- -- 
             		    Jerry Christopher
     ___        HTTP://WWW2.Viperlink.Net/Members/IThEFunKI
 ___/.o \__, 	     1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
_=O------O=__________It ain't my father's Oldsmobile_______

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 18:09:07 -0800
From: Erik <erikreb@netbridge.net>
Subject: Re: Intake Manifold Question

Got a couple more questions for everybody:

How do I tell the difference between the intake ports and the water
ports?

Also, one of the mechanics told me before I torque the bolts down, put
oil on the threads.  He said if I dont I wont get an accurate torque
reading.  But in my Chiltons Olds manual, it tells me if I put oil on
the threads that I WILL get an inacurrate reading.

Thanks again,

Erik B.
'72 Cutlass S

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 21:20:04 -0500
From: Jerry Christopher <IThEFunKI@ViperLink.Net>
Subject: Re: SSIII rims on an 87 Cutlass Supreme

Jason K. Adcock wrote:
> 
> Jerry Christopher wrote:
> >
> > possibility of 14 inch Cragars, I had an option to "chicken out".  SSIII
> > rims (I hope I am right) are 15 inch wheels
> 
> No.  SSIII's are 14".  All of them, right A-Body guys?

So then what's on the 442s (G-Body) I heard something about 15 Inch, am
I reading the wrong stuff???   Probably.
- -- 
             		    Jerry Christopher
     ___        HTTP://WWW2.Viperlink.Net/Members/IThEFunKI
 ___/.o \__, 	     1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
_=O------O=__________It ain't my father's Oldsmobile_______

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 21:19:49 -0500
From: Steve Ochs <Steve_Ochs@compuserve.com>
Subject: Quad 4 foam

Message text written by INTERNET:Aerotech
>this white foam to ya. first of it's normal, and i get it every winter,
and
have gotten it every winter for the last 5 or 6 years in this engine.<

Sounds like a dealer explanation - they're all that way :).  Just because
it happens all of the time doesn't mean its normal.  Sounds like a poor
design to deliberately have condensation in the crankcase so that the oil
doesn't lubricate properly and corrosive acids build up faster.  I know of
plenty of Quad 4 owners who do NOT get this foam in the winter.  The only
one who did ended up with an engine siezing up due to water in the oil
causing lack of lubrication.  The water came from a small leak in the head
gasket.

>How long can your V8 take a beating?<

Actually, I have had TWO Rocket V-8s run over 200,000 miles with NO
internal engine repairs including gaskets and both engines saw their fair
share of racing at the dragstrip.

P.S. This is not AOL people hide behind their nicknames and post mindless
gibberish to the AOL forums, it would be nice to sign your posts with your
REAL name so we know who we are talking to. Not a flame - just an
explanation of netiquette.

Steve Ochs aka N8TYS- Mfg. Engineer - GM Powertrain - Parma Plant
Transmission Division (4T60/65-E) - Steve_Ochs@compuserve.com
The statements and opinions expressed here are NOT an official
statement of General Motors or the GM Powertrain Division

'97 Chevy Blazer LT 4x4 4.3L V6    '96 DCM Impala SS 5.7L V8 
'87 Olds Cutlass 442 307 V8        '61 GMC 1500 Fleetside 305 V6  

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 21:24:27 -0500
From: Steve Ochs <Steve_Ochs@compuserve.com>
Subject: Quad 4 Ignition

<no ignition wires in the way>

The Quad 4 has direct ignition - i.e. the coils are mounted directly to the
plugs with no wires.  One problem if I recall is that the plastic cover
that the coils are mounted in (the one that says "Quad 4") typically cracks
after many miles causing misfires.



Steve Ochs aka N8TYS- Mfg. Engineer - GM Powertrain - Parma Plant
Transmission Division (4T60/65-E) - Steve_Ochs@compuserve.com
The statements and opinions expressed here are NOT an official
statement of General Motors or the GM Powertrain Division

'97 Chevy Blazer LT 4x4 4.3L V6    '96 DCM Impala SS 5.7L V8 
'87 Olds Cutlass 442 307 V8        '61 GMC 1500 Fleetside 305 V6  

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 21:29:26 EST
From: BIG JERMES <BIGJERMES@aol.com>
Subject: Re: 6sp\442, dist cap

In a message dated 97-12-14 17:48:30 EST, you write:

<< There was an article in a Car Craft a few months back in which they put a
 6 speed in an 80's El Camino (maybe it was a Malibu, I forget).  Would the
 process be similar enough to get a good idea of how it could be done?
  >>
might be!  an el camino is about like a g-body, isnt it?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 21:37:38 EST
From: BIG JERMES <BIGJERMES@aol.com>
Subject: Re: harmonic balancers

In a message dated 97-12-14 17:01:46 EST, you write:

<< The beauty of this is that the 307-455
 balancers are the same part # at the dealership.  I know, cause I was
 surprised to find out they had a new 455 balancer, which I found out
 later, it fit all of the V-8's.  >>
yea, ive seen that.  how is this possible?  if you look at a 403 balancer, its
different from a 350, and a 455.  260 is different, and the old 400s are
different.  how do they get the balancers correct for the engines?  im really
curius now...

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 22:00:20 -0500
From: Jerry Christopher <IThEFunKI@ViperLink.Net>
Subject: Re: Quad 4 Ignition

Steve Ochs wrote:
> 
> <no ignition wires in the way>
> 
> The Quad 4 has direct ignition - i.e. the coils are mounted directly to the
> plugs with no wires.  One problem if I recall is that the plastic cover
> that the coils are mounted in (the one that says "Quad 4") typically cracks
> after many miles causing misfires.

I noticed that on the top of the motor in the newer 2.4 motors...  There
are no plug wires, and no VISIBLE plugs...  Just thin wires going into
what on a V motor would be where the intake goes...  On a DOHC Motor, at
least the newer ones, in the 2.4 class are all housed under the 
"Cover".  And when you unbolt it, it's all plastic...  Yucko.
- -- 
             		    Jerry Christopher
     ___        HTTP://WWW2.Viperlink.Net/Members/IThEFunKI
 ___/.o \__, 	     1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
_=O------O=__________It ain't my father's Oldsmobile_______

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 20:13:29 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: (youngeter's retort) Re: sounds

On Sun, 14 Dec 1997, Matt Cremean wrote:

> Ray wrote:
> > 
> > You own a 442 at age 16?!  You bastard! (jokingly).  I was cruising around
> > in a 80 Caprice when I first started driving.
> > 
> > Ray dealing with "El Nino" in the Sonoran Desert Costanzo
> > 87 409 Cutlass
> 
> Yeah this kids got a step up on me. I restoring a '73 plain Jane, this
> kid's got Rallye and a 442.
> 
> Hey Ray, trust me, I know what it's like to have the CrapPiece blues.
> I'm experiencing it right as we speak. Exhaust manifold leak from hell
> too. Typical White Trash kinda car!
> 
Actually, I kind of liked my Caprice.  It was smooth and quiet and quite a
pleasure to drive.  When I got it it was nice, but I shortly turned it
into a white trash car with teenage driving adventures.


> -- 
> **********************************
> Matt Cremean
> mailto:ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu
> +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
> CreamerSoftİ Software
> http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Park/5988/creamersoft.html
> +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
> 1973 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
> http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/73olds.html
> **********************************
> 

Ray dealing with "El Nino" in the Sonoran Desert Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 22:40:28 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: Old Racer's Trick

In conjunction with the stock-style sheetmetal valley-pan gasket, I used RTV
blue around the water passages, and I laid a big bead in place of the
end-seals. I also used RTV red around the crossover ports, and spray-on
copper gasket around the intake ports (all surfaces). No leaks so far. Oh,
yeah, I used the Performer intake as well.
===================
Oh, yeah, the Old Racer's Trick (R) of using TWO colors of RTV. ;-)
Adds a splash of color, too.

I generally use the goo supplied with the gasket on the air/fuel passages, the
tiniest film of rtv on the coolant seals, and a smidgen of rtv at the end of
the end rail gaskets. If the end rail gaskets tries to squeeze out, it gets
replaced by the bead of RTV. I torque as the OLDS service manual says. Go in
steps, like barely snug, snugger, correct tork, then again until all read
correct tork w/ no more turning. Also, Permatex Aviation #3H is good for the
air/fuel passages.
  Some folks claim that AL intakes and steel shim gaskets lead to failure, but
maybe they're Chevy mechanics who use too much RTV, only one color, and tighten
in the wrong sequence. Others here have said that they find good success with
steel gaskets and the above sealers & methods.
  Do a dry test fit first, of course.
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
         >>> Please snip the excess lines from posts <<<

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 22:41:04 -0500
From: m-hanneman@onu.edu
Subject: Re: (youngeter's retort) Re: sounds

Shayne,
I'm glad to hear of another "Younger" olds fan.  I'm 19 and also have an 85
442.  Unfortunately, for the mean time, it is my only car.  How about yours?  

Matt

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 23:02:05 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: project availab;ele

Went and looked at the "SS" or "SX" Cutlass today.... I can't afford it but I
rate it as a Great Buy for someone: $1200 he's asking for:

Car 1: '70 Cutlass. VIN 336870Z122###. S maybe, not SX. Frame's been painted a
bit, is VERY NICE skin rust only. No rear sway bar. Nice black bucket seat
interior. Nice dash, dash clock is out. Door panels are off. Red paint looks OK
at first glance. Could use some body work. VERY little rust for a car in MI. No
motor/ trans. 12-bolt. Regular floor shifter. Needs bumpers plated. No cutout
bumper- he says. Sport mirrors. SSII wheels, might be mismatched. 90,300 miles.
Sport steering wheel. Black grille made up of rectangles about 3/4" x 2". Drum
brakes. Had AC. Beautiful floorpan. Very easy to make a great driver out of
this car. All it needs is a motor, trans, and a small amount of work. Speaking
of which...

Car 2: '67 Delmont 88 Custom Holiday *Sedan*! Taillites in the bumper. Rear
bumper bad rusty thru, res of body medium rusty, but chrome & trim is VERY
PRETTY. NICE remote LH mirror. Oh, and a running 425-2V motor, complete. Trans
in place, presumably a Switch Pitch long shaft TH400. Power windows, power
bench seat. Green exterior & interior. Rubber "Oldsmobile" floormats. No radio,
but antenna base and mast are there complete. Hood looks good, all front end is
good: bumper, grille, headlight surrounds, one T3 left. Tilt & Tele. GREAT dash
& pad. Motor code P165187-, no drill spot... 45 degree cam bank angle. VIN
354397E140048. C heads of course, small valve no doubt. New alternator. Good
windshield, other glass. Being a "Custom", this motor is probably a Hich
Compression 425-2V. This car has AC also. This drivetrain would make a
wonderful addition to the Car 1, just make the TH400 into a short-shaft
version.
    This was a very pimp ride when it was going. Next best thing to a 98 Luxury
Sedan.

Disclaimer in that I don't know a whole lot about the cars, just spent a half
hour looking them over. Caveat Emptor of course. But, from what I saw, a '70
Cutlass worth about $5000 next spring after not much work. Contact me if
interested.
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
         >>> Please snip the excess lines from posts <<<
517-882-9747 MI time until 11pm or so.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 22:46:24 -0500
From: AEROTECH <jev114@email.psu.edu>
Subject: Quad 4 with no PCV

Let me explain why the white stuff is there simply. what happens to a hot
cup of coffee when you put a piece of plastic over the top and let it cool
down? right moisture builds up on it. the same thing happens in the
crankcase and similarly in the gas tank. excessive whit stuff builds up in
the Q4 when only short trips are made. if the motor is allowed to warm up
and run for a while the excess moisture is evaporated. the CV system allows
vapors to escape from the crankcase but fresh air is not induced into the
crankcase. The Q4 has a oil/air separator allow vapor escape but not oil. i
do not know why this was chosen but there must be a good reason. possibly
cuz there is no EGR, thus no way to recirculate the vapors from the
crankshaft back into the intake manifold. the Q4 is as close as your gonna
get to the old simple engines. no EGR, no plug wires, no Emission controls
BS or air pumps, no vacuum lines running over the entire engine. just plain
and simple. motor itself only weighs a little over 300 pounds fully dressed
no fluids. 5sp tranny weighs 88 pounds dry. 

AEROTECH
Q4 Guru

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 00:07:30 -0500
From: Dave Ward <ward@ptbo.igs.net>
Subject: Re: Quad 4 with no PCV

AEROTECH wrote:

<cut, snip, hack>

>>The Q4 has a oil/air separator allow vapor escape but not oil. i
>>do not know why this was chosen but there must be a good reason. possibly
>>cuz there is no EGR, thus no way to recirculate the vapors from the
>>crankshaft back into the intake manifold.

You must mean PCV...the EGR system has nothing to do with the crankcase
vapours. 

- ---------------------------------------- 
S. Dave Ward  (mailto:ward@ptbo.igs.net)

'78 Delta 88 Royale (350 4bbl.)
'85 Delta 88 R.B.   (307 4bbl.)
'91 GMC Sierra 4x4  (305 TBI)

(Ennismore, Ontario, CANADA)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 00:01:50 -0500
From: MROTHE <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Quad 4 head gaskets (long)

> Or me talking about the Cam in my "Y" motor (Y couldn't I get a 9 and be
> lucky) and comparing it to the 9 motor Cam?  To me this looks like
> apples and oranges...

Got the message you intended Jerry, but you are comparing apples and
oranges in a way.  The Y motor and 9 motor cams DID differ at least in
the early 80s up to at LEAST through 85.  Not sure about 86 and up
though.  The Y engines got roller cams, which required a retainer plate
in front, where the 9 engines were throwbacks to the 70s, i.e.
non-roller tappets.  Go figure.
- -- 
Mike Rothe
69 H/O
71 442 HT
85 442 T-top
76 GMC 1/2 ton, 502 c.i.

http://pages.prodigy.net/mrothe/rocket.html

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 00:39:33 -0500
From: "Robert Schinkel" <docbob@caninet.com>
Subject: Re: SSIII rims on an 87 Cutlass Supreme

- ----------
> What will I need to do to mount tires on these mamas, and not throw the
> speed-o into a wild uncalibrated frenzy???  
> 
>              		    Jerry Christopher

The answer is actually quite easy.  Measure you present tires with the 14"
rims
and when you but you new 15" tires get a profile that will maintain this
ride height.

Most cars are rated at 26" tires to set gear ratio.  So going to a taller
rim may not affect the ride height of your "ride".  But the taller rims
will enable you to have a lower side wall which should result in better
handling capabilities.

Robert Schinkel

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 00:45:08 -0500
From: MROTHE <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Quad 4 with no PCV

>  the CV system allows
> vapors to escape from the crankcase but fresh air is not induced into the
> crankcase. The Q4 has a oil/air separator allow vapor escape but not oil. i
> do not know why this was chosen but there must be a good reason. possibly
> cuz there is no EGR, thus no way to recirculate the vapors from the
> crankshaft back into the intake manifold.  

Care to try this explanation again?  I still don't know HOW the CV
system works......and I'm getting this sneaky feeling that I'm not the
only one.  Let's assume you have some unburned fuel/air mixture get into
the crankcase past the rings.  Pressure is gonna build.  Where does it
go, how does it get there, etc.  The engine pumps just about as much air
around in the crankcase as it does on top of the pistons, so at 5000
rpm, that's a lot of air moving around in there.  With blowby ocurring,
there will be a buildup of fuel vapors.  Just venting it out of the
engine will still allow a lot of the vapors to remain.  Why on earth
WOULDN'T you want fresh air to be induced in the crankcase?  I still
don't understand this. 

BTW, the EGR (or lack of) doesn't have anything to do with the crankcase
ventilation.  The EGR's only function in life is to dilute the intake
charge with small amounts of exhaust to help reduce NOx emissions.  Oh,
and as a bonus, tends to reduce performance.

- -- 
Mike Rothe
69 H/O
71 442 HT
85 442 T-top
76 GMC 1/2 ton, 502 c.i.

http://pages.prodigy.net/mrothe/rocket.html

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 01:32:03 -0500 (EST)
From: Kevin Wong <brougham@geocities.com>
Subject: Re: Sad Rad

Hi Greg,

> Interesting pricing; I don't know if mine is 31", but I called Canadian 
> Tire and was quoted a little over $200 for the 403/AC/HD cooling version; 
> my buddy at the parts store sold me this one for the same application for 
> $179. Maybe they charge more for Caddy rads?

I'd have to look to be sure, but there might also be 2 of those fittings
on my rad.  Your Delta 88 should have a ~27" core; that price is about 
what my friend payed almost a year ago, when I installed one of those HD
Modine's in a '77 Custom Cruiser.  I thought the extra $100+ was a bit
excessive for only 4" of width, but I guess the 31" radiators are less
common.  BTW, the original style 2 row version was just over $200 for my car.

Kevin Wong       mailto:brougham@geocities.com       Toronto, Ontario, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 01:42:50 EST
From: Markintime <Markintime@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Valve Train Blues

Hi John,
Sorry to hear about the problems with the valve train.  I'm curious about the
lift and duration on the cam you're running?  I'm also curious if your valve
train problems are confined to a single cylinder?   Your worse case scenario
is the valves making contact with the top of the piston.  If this is the case
no amount of adjusting, tightening or locktite will cure the problem.  This is
usually the case when running a high lift or long duration cam and the cam is
advanced beyond stock.  The other possibliities are as follows:
1. Cam lift results in a rocker angle where there is no clearance between the
stud and the slot in the rocker. Basically the rocker binds against the stud
at extreme lift.

2. Cam lift results in valve spring bind, usually due to wrong valve spring or
incorrect installed spring height.

3. Cam shaft is ground wrong.

You may have to pull the valve covers and check the valve geometry throughout
the cycle.  This usually requires the replacement of the hydraulic lifter with
a solid lifter temporarily to perform the checks.

Hope this helps.

Mark Berube 
Loganville, GA.
67' 442

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 01:14:03 -0600
From: "Tracy H. Shires" <twodogs@ou.edu>
Subject: Re: A little humor and off the wall question.

>Hey Jerry,

>That's not crazy at all. My Toro is affectionately called the "Beast". 

>Can't imagine why, but thats the name she wound up with. I have thought

>of getting a personal plate to that effect but no decision yet. Besides

>look at some of the names that post on this great site, I mean you

>gotta  love them. Later

>69 Toro(Beast) and Dawg

>


Ohh flashback.. "The Beast" is what all of my friends nicknamed my Cutlass. I think it had to do with the three entire front ends I went through in two years back in my high school days. During that time period my car always had at least two colors of paint and/or primer. I will say that I became good at body work then. I still remember my very last accident. I had spent months on the front end. It was PERFECT. The paint was dry three days when I slammed a telephone pole. I actually went into shock during that one, not because of the accident but because of all that work. Thank god my reckless days are over!!


Now I can afford to build up the drivetrain, hehehehe.....







T. H. Shires				81 C/S/B Rckt 350

mailto:TwoDogs@ou.edu


<bold>University of Oklahoma

</bold><italic><color><param>0000,0000,ffff</param>Aerospace 
Engineering

</color><color><param>ffff,0000,0000</param>Mechanical Engineering

</color></italic>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 23:33:41 -0800
From: Chris & Robin Miller <cya442@mindspring.com>
Subject: Clutch problems.

The clutch in my '68 442 is acting up once the car gets warm.  The
clutch is about 1 1/2 years old and is a Hays performance clutch.  It
will work fine until the car is up to normal operating temps and then
from a dead start the car will jump a lot as I am slowly releasing the
clutch.  This doesn't happen if the car has any forward momentum.  I
haven't adjusted it since I installed it and I'm not sure if it needs it
either.  Any tips or ideas are welcome.

Thanks
- --
Chris Miller
'68 442
Tustin, CA
mailto:cya442@mindspring.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 01:45:19 -0600
From: "Tracy H. Shires" <twodogs@ou.edu>
Subject: Re: Intake Manifold Question

>How do I tell the difference between the intake ports and the water

>ports?


If you haven't drained your block and you remove the manifold you'll find out real quick... The outermost hole on each side of the heads are the water ports. The inner ones are intake ports. You can look at the manifold runners to verify this. The intake ports will lead up to the carb..



>Also, one of the mechanics told me before I torque the bolts down, put

>oil on the threads.  He said if I dont I wont get an accurate torque

>reading.  But in my Chiltons Olds manual, it tells me if I put oil on

>the threads that I WILL get an inacurrate reading.

>

>Thanks again,

>

>Erik B.

>'72 Cutlass S


I've always been told NOT to put oil on them, but who knows for sure... I've done it both ways.. I've gotten good seals either way..


BTW: Thought I'd mention it.. My performer intake didn't come with the valley pan gasket, just the regular felpro.. If your's didn't come with one too you might want to go to your local part store and get one...


Have fun!!







T. H. Shires				81 C/S/B Rckt 350

mailto:TwoDogs@ou.edu


<bold>University of Oklahoma

</bold><italic><color><param>0000,0000,ffff</param>Aerospace 
Engineering

</color><color><param>ffff,0000,0000</param>Mechanical Engineering

</color></italic>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 02:56:18 -0600
From: dnewman@wcbi.com (Doug Newman)
Subject: Re: off the wall question.

Jerry Christopher wrote:

>Does anyone besides me name thier ride?

Jerry, my car was "named" by some comedian here at work.  I pulled into the
lot one day to pick up my check, and this guy was standing outside with a
bunch of people.  When I got out, he started singing that line from Steve
Miller's "The Joker".  "...Some people call me Maurrllllllrice..." followed
by the trademark wolf-whistle.  Since late 1993, my car has had the
unofficial name of "Maurice".

Doug Newman
Columbus, MS
1987 442

http://www.442.com/newman.html   

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 03:10:05 -0600
From: dnewman@wcbi.com (Doug Newman)
Subject: Re: G-body SSIII's

Jerry and Jason were talking about the size of SSIII wheels.  The following
is snipped from a post sent to the list back on March 19, 1997.

>Here's what the '87 Olds SPECS books says about the W42:

>W42 Cutlass 442 Package,  <snip>

>Steering Wheel, Leather Wrapped Sport (NP5); Wheels, 15", Chrome-Styled
>with Gold Accent (N83); Tires, P215/65R15 Steel-Belted Radial-Ply, 

I thought the SSIII's on my car were 15's, but I checked this to make sure.
Hope this helps.

Doug Newman
Columbus, MS
1987 442

http://www.442.com/newman.html

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 04:15:42 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Intake Manifold Question

On Sun, 14 Dec 1997, Erik wrote:

> Got a couple more questions for everybody:
> 
> How do I tell the difference between the intake ports and the water
> ports?

The intake ports are larger and can be matched by eye to the prots on the
heads.  

> 
> Also, one of the mechanics told me before I torque the bolts down, put
> oil on the threads.  He said if I dont I wont get an accurate torque
> reading.  But in my Chiltons Olds manual, it tells me if I put oil on
> the threads that I WILL get an inacurrate reading.

Fel Pro and other companies make a lubricant specifically for this.  It is
reccommended for torquing the bolts to the proper specs.

> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> Erik B.
> '72 Cutlass S
> 

Ray dealing with "El Nino" in the Sonoran Desert Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 04:16:51 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: (youngeter's retort) Re: sounds

On Sun, 14 Dec 1997 m-hanneman@onu.edu wrote:

> Shayne,
> I'm glad to hear of another "Younger" olds fan.  I'm 19 and also have an 85
> 442.  Unfortunately, for the mean time, it is my only car.  How about yours?  
> 
> Matt
> 
Damn it!  What's up with all these teenagers having 442's and stuff!?  I
won't have a real 442 till after college and all that other stuff.

> 

Ray dealing with "El Nino" in the Sonoran Desert Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 07:22:54 -0500
From: "Jason K. Adcock" <jadcock@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: SSIII rims on an 87 Cutlass Supreme

Jerry Christopher wrote:
>
> So then what's on the 442s (G-Body) I heard something about 15 Inch, am
> I reading the wrong stuff???   Probably.

No, that's my mistake.  I was forgetting about the 15" chrome SSIII's on
the G-Bodies.   I can't find 'em anywhere, so I never thought about them
when I wrote that post.  Believe me, I'd like a set of the 15's, but that
won't happen for anything cheap.  Thanks for straightening me out...
_____________________________

Jason K. Adcock
mailto:jadcock@vt.edu
http://www.erols.com/adcockjk

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 06:33:27 -0600
From: Thomas Martin <Thomas_Martin@css.mot.com>
Subject: Re: Intro and Olds 350 questions

About the suspension, the only trouble I have had autocrossing with my
Trans AM, was ripping the front sway bar to frame bolts out of the
frame.  This is BAD, and I had to stack about 100 washer on long bolts
and drop them thru the tinyest holes in the frame to get them on and
then put a nut on.  

ADVICE:  Install good high quality polyurethane sway bar bushings,
greasable kind (much quieter!!) and then tack weld the bushing retainer
to the frame.  This will prevent some of the stress from autocrossing
from ripping the bolts out.  Also, use the FACTORY bolts, do not use any
other bolt supplied, use the bolt that you know fits like a charm!!  

And on autocrossing, HAVE FUN!!!!  Start out in the stock class, work up
through street prepared, aftermarket swaybars will bump you to street
prepared, and that means you will need more power to keep up, as
everyone else will have mods then.  Start in the stock and just go with
bushings, alignments and other "tweaks", then when you are ready, jump
into the SP classes.  

Thomas Martin
85 Cutlass Supreme Rocket 350 CCC

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 06:37:27 -0600
From: Thomas Martin <Thomas_Martin@css.mot.com>
Subject: Re: Cork Vs. Rubber ?

My 1985 Cutlass used the money snot from the factory and had zero valve
cover leaks all the way up through 186,000 miles, then I opened it up
for a cracked piston.  Not bad for goo!

Thomas Martin
85 Cutlass Supreme Rocket 350 CCC

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 08:26:28 +0000
From: ejhufnagel@juno.com (Edward J. Hufnagel)
Subject: Re: Sad Rad

On Sun, 14 Dec 1997 17:39:58 -0400 (AST) Greg Beaulieu
<ab348@chebucto.ns.ca> writes:

>When I opened it, I noticed that it had an extra fitting: between the 
>filler neck and the top trans cooler line there was a female water 
>fitting, and in the box was a baggie with 2 options for filling it: a 
>brass threaded plug or a threaded heater hose adapter. I have no idea 
>why 
>these are necessary or why the fitting is there. More on this later.
>
>


             Late 80's Ch*vys had one of the heater hoses running to the
rad.  Is it possible you have a generic universal rad?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 08:17:25 +0000
From: ejhufnagel@juno.com (Edward J. Hufnagel)
Subject: Re: bearing packer

On Sun, 14 Dec 1997 16:16:29 -0500 (EST) Robert Barry
<RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu> writes:

>>Seems to me you are still doing the same thing that started this 
>discussion
>>unless you load your grease gun with a tube of wheel bearing grease- 
>is there
>>such a thing? 
>
>Yes; the disc-brake bearing grease in the tube I bought and used was 
>kind of
>blue in color. There were a number to choose from.


           For those of you that have a NAPA store near you they have a
multi purpose, extreme pressure wheel bearing and chassis grease in a
tube for a grease gun. The grease is for wheel bearings, suspension,
u-joints, steering linkages and chassis. It is recommended for wheel
bearings on cars with disc brakes(except F*rd). Withstands high temp and
heavy loads. I use it and have had no problems.

my 40% of a nickel
                                  E.J.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 09:07:17 +0000
From: ejhufnagel@juno.com (Edward J. Hufnagel)
Subject: Re: A little humor and off the wall question.

On Sun, 14 Dec 1997 20:34:30 -0500 jgoble@nishanet.com (Jeramy Goble)
writes:
>Jerry Christopher wrote:

>> Does anyone besides me name thier ride?

          I've been known to call my '66 Delta  "Big Blue" and a few
others when I get  "busted knuckle" syndrome!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 08:36:55 +0000
From: ejhufnagel@juno.com (Edward J. Hufnagel)
Subject: Re: Sad Rad

On Sun, 14 Dec 1997 20:14:14 -0400 (AST) Greg Beaulieu
<ab348@chebucto.ns.ca> writes:

>$179. Maybe they charge more for Caddy rads?
>
   
            If you think this is a C*ddy rad then my guess would be that
the two extra fittings would be to hook up an optional oil cooler

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 09:37:53 -0500
From: Olds mobile <dmtaylor@tiac.net>
Subject: Re: A little humor and off the wall question.

> >> Does anyone besides me name thier ride?
>
>           I've been known to call my '66 Delta  "Big Blue" and a few
> others when I get  "busted knuckle" syndrome!

   I named the 79 Pontiac four door that I drove for a while (bought it
cause it had a 455 Olds in it) 'Big Ugly'
 also had an Omega that I called 'Oh-My-God'

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 09:43:50 -0500
From: big-m@mediaone.net
Subject: Searching for 73 Cutlass

Hi,
 I have had a 74 88 Royale Convertible since new! But am looking for a
73 Cutlass to restore.
Regards,
George

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 08:48:24 -0600
From: Scott.Wheeler@pinnacle-brands.com
Subject: Re: To Frame Off or not to frame off

Jim,

There are some 10-12 bolts going up through the bottom of the frame,
through rubber body mount bushings. once those are removed, you can just
jack the body up off the frame. Do you really need to remove it? Yeah it's
easier to paint the frame & under body while seperate but jeez, it's pretty
major surgery!

I'm just wire brushing the frame and under body on my 68 442 Conv while I
have the drivetrain out without pulling the body off!

Good luck!




DROLDS350@aol.com on 12/12/97 10:28:12 PM

Please respond to oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca

To:   oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
cc:   DROLDS350@aol.com (bcc: Scott Wheeler/PrePress/PBI)
Subject:  To Frame Off or not to frame off




Olds List members:
I am in the process of restoring a 1970 Rallye 350. I would like to take
the
body off. I have heard a couple people on the list say that it is fairly
easy.
If I take off the body would I have to cut the floor and trunk pans? The
car I
am redoing has no rust and is in pretty good shape. Is there really a need
to
take off the body? If I take the body off it wouldn't be till early summer,
and I wouldn't be able to work on my car until the body is off. Is is
really
neccasary to take the body off?
Jim

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 08:52:30 -0600
From: Scott.Wheeler@pinnacle-brands.com
Subject: Re: The one that got away

I live in Garland Texas & I keep seeing this little old lady driving this
gorgeous 71 442, Lime green, white interior, white stripes...and...a
hairnet!

Is that an original color combo? I haven't ever heard of a Lime green 71.

Scott Wheeler
68 442 Conv-Garland/Dallas




IThEFunKI@ViperLink.Net on 12/12/97 10:42:32 AM

Please respond to oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca

To:   oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
cc:    (bcc: Scott Wheeler/PrePress/PBI)
Subject:  Re: The one that got away




Jeff Stanish wrote:
> friends.  Let's just say Grandma was not known as "Leadfoot" for
nothing!!
> (She's now 94 and still kickin'.)  We made the trip in no time!
When I was younger my Great Grandmother had a GTO, it was awesome, cause
it wasn't just any GTO, she rode in a Judge...  I don't remember too
much about it cause my Great Grandmother, and my Grand Father sold the
car after she was hit when I was 6.  Needless to say, I have always
loved the Judge...  Picute a 70 year old woman about 5'2" with a bright
orange Judge!!!  My dad also tells me that when he first learned how to
drive, my Grand Father was into the Car Sales biz...  He sold Pontiacs
in the mid-late 60s.  My dad and all my uncles got to play with my grand
fathers 62 Vette with a few mods (each one decided it needed something a
little different for better HP, my GF didn't want it touched)  It died
one evening courtsey of a gaurd rail and a girl messing with one of my
uncles!!!  (sigh)
- --
                        Jerry Christopher
     ___        HTTP://WWW2.Viperlink.Net/Members/IThEFunKI
 ___/.o \__,        1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
_=O------O=__________It ain't my father's Oldsmobile_______

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #1010
*********************************

