
oldsmobile-digest      Friday, December 12 1997      Volume 01 : Number 1004



RE: The one that got away
Re: G-body model
Re: I almost had a 71
Re: Olds & Youth
Re: 5000 RPM tach (not for an Olds)
Re: 5000 RPM tach (not for an Olds)
Re: Olds & Youth
Re: I almost had a 71
The one that got away
re: 455 buildup on a budget
re: 455 buildup on a budget
Re: request for g body owners
Re: NO MORE AIR
Re: The one that got away
Re: I almost had a 71
Re: The one that got away
Re: 70 Burl Wood Grain (where did it all go?)
more on '71 f/s
Re: the one that got away
Re: Olds & Youth
4V heads
Rumors and aftermath
runaway motor
ps pump replacement
Soylent Ocean Crunch
Re: Tires
long th400?
big wires
weld brake drums?
The Perfect Woman
Re: ps pump replacement
Re: Are these SSIIIs something special?
Re: runaway engine
Re: sounds (my take on the subject)
Re: Olds & Youth
auto courtesy lites
Re: Olds & Youth(long)
Re[2]: engine ID by VIN
One that got away, one that didn't
Re: Power Tour
Re: weld brake drums?
Re: big wires
Re: G-body model
Re: G-body model
Re: UNBOUNCE: Engine color
Re: I almost had a 71
Re: H/O parts
Re: The one that got away
Re: NO MORE AIR
Re: sounds (my take on the subject)
Re: Centennial celebration plaque
Re: Dec JWO - Pictures
Re: sounds (Primus)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 18:18:30 -0500
From: "Proietto, Fernando [Ontario]" <Fernando.Proietto@ec.gc.ca>
Subject: RE: The one that got away

I've got a few myself, but the one that sticks out the most was, 1985.
Answered a classified in the auto paper about a 4bbl manifold for sale
for an olds. Being new to Olds and restorations, I went trying to find
an intake for my '72 Cutlass. Got there and he, a tow truck driver, was
in the process of moving. Was selling all the junk accumulated over the
years to lighten the load. Asked about the intake and he took it out. It
was painted red, and that should have been my first inclination that it
was for a Ch*vy. Not knowing, I bought it for 30 bucks. I also noticed
that he was selling a car out front. A '69 but couldn't figure out what
it was. It looked like my olds but I've never seen it before. Opened the
hood and it had a fully chromed 455 according to the guy. Looked inside
and the interior was a little gutted. The wood dash had that sparkle
sticker applied, the type the early T/A's had. A little work but not
bad. Asking price $3000. With a little work the price would have been
$2000. I came back because the intake wouldn't fit and I figured out it
would never fit. Got my money back and looked at the car again. Little
did I know in front of me twice was a '69 H/O with 454. The guy even
thought it was a Ch*vy. I didn't find out until 4 years later, so I
don't feel too bad about it.

Fernando Proietto
A/Manager
Systems Analyst - Informatics Division
Environment Canada
Ontario Region - Monitoring & Systems Branch
4905 Dufferin St. 
Downsview, Ontario
M3H 5T4

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 16:17:01 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: G-body model

On Thu, 11 Dec 1997, Jerry Christopher wrote:

> RCKTPWR wrote:
> > 
> > In a message dated 97-12-11 11:37:42 EST, you write:
> > 
> > <<   I hate to say it, but that car is way
> >  cooler than any factory Cutlass of the 80's (when looking at the entire
> >  package).   >>
> 
> > Well, performance wise, cant argue the 86-87 gn(x). But looks??? I think your
> > not gonna find any takers for that on this list. I think the Olds
> > Cutlass/442/Salon was much better looking, IMHO. My 86 Salon is black on
> > maroon int, and the nose w/its chrome accents around the lites and grille area
> > is sharp!!!
> 
> Found one here! <G>  I was looking for a decent Monte Carlo SS, or
> Cutlass, or an UNMOLESTED Grand National, or Grand Prix 80's G-Body.  I
> looked at quite a few GNs.  I kinda like all the blacked out chrome
> stuff...  It's all interchangable with the Regal....  
> 
> BTW, The Regal and Monte Carlo LS had to be in REAL nice shape for me to
> even think about buying....  I got LUCKY, I got a Cutlass Supreme with
> the 307 3Spd Column in AWESOME shape by accident for $2000 even!  Such
> ends this search...  I'd still trade my Cutlass for a decent GN in a
> heart beat.........  Just something about turbo charged V6's FACTORY
> AMERICAN STEEL I love!

Maybe you shouldn't have said that in the presence of all these hardcore
Olds nuts, but I agree with ya.




> -- 
>              		    Jerry Christopher
>      ___        HTTP://WWW2.Viperlink.Net/Members/IThEFunKI
>  ___/.o \__, 	     1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
> _=O------O=__________It ain't my father's Oldsmobile_______
> 

Ray dealing with "El Nino" in the Sonoran Desert Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 16:23:40 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: I almost had a 71

On Thu, 11 Dec 1997 Scott.Wheeler@pinnacle-brands.com wrote:

> 
> Ray,
> 
> I'd say you were probably smart not to get the beater...I look at a couple
> of overall things when considering a project...
> 1-top if convertible
> 2-interior
> 3-Paint & Body
> 4-Mechanics
> 
> If the car is a special edition or all the numbers matched, my decision
> might be harder, but generally if 3 of the 4 things are thrashed I look
> elsewhere.
> 
> Just my opinion, but I think you did good
                                         ^
                                         !
                                       Thanks, I needed that.
                                


, you can find lots of good
> running low rust cars down here in my nec
k of the woods for that kind of
> cash.
> 
> Scott Wheeler
> 68 442 Conv
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rayc@U.Arizona.EDU on 12/11/97 04:45:08 PM
> 
> Please respond to oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> 
> To:   oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> cc:    (bcc: Scott Wheeler/PrePress/PBI)
> Subject:  I almost had a 71
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let me know if I'm a fool or the other guy is please.  Over the summer i
> went to look at a 71 Cutlass S convertible that was for sale.  I was
> hoping it was owned by a senior citizen, but it was owned by a 400 pound
> hairy alcoholic instead.  Still cool though.  The condition of the car was
> rather poor.  It had a considerable amount of rust around the wheels and
> some other spots.  The interior was totally trashed, slashed seats, no
> headliner, stains, ripped carpet, etc., etc.  The top on it was new,
> surprisingly, and it still had no problems moving.  The engine was
> original (350), and the car had 160,000 miles.  I drove it, and, not to my
> surprise since it is an Olds, it ran quite smoothly.  The electrical
> system in the car was really rigged.  There were wires hanging out that
> you had to twist together if you wanted to listen to the radio or put the
> top down and stuff like that.  Anyway, this guy was asking $4500 for this
> car.  I realize that this car is valuable and all, but that much for the
> shape it was in?  Is he nuts?  Thanks
> Ray dealing with "El Nino" in the Sonoran Desert Costanzo
> 87 409 Cutlass
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Ray dealing with "El Nino" in the Sonoran Desert Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 18:26:33 EST
From: BMAN6771 <BMAN6771@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Olds & Youth

In a message dated 97-12-11 17:18:33 EST, you write:

<< Now, who says America's youth is going down the tubes?  :-)
 
 Doug Newman
 Columbus, MS
 1987 442 >>
 
ya, im 15 and my dad is helpin me put back together a 1967 cutlass
convertible. i love oldsmobiles!

brent
1967 cutlass convertible

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 97 18:30:33 EST
From: Glenn Connors <gpc442@buffnet.net>
Subject: Re: 5000 RPM tach (not for an Olds)

At 09:57 PM 12/9/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Does anyone know if there exists a tach that goes only upto 5000 RPM?
>I'm trying to find one for my bro's I/H Scout II for X-mas.
>Thanks
>
>Ray dealing with "El Nino" in the Sonoran Desert Costanzo
>87 409 Cutlass 
>
>

    Just checked my NAPA catolog and found a 3000 RPM, 3500 RPM, as well as
a 6000 RPM tachometer but no 5000 RPM tachs.  You may want to check with a
marine parts house.


     Glenn
     '69 4-4-2

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 16:40:18 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: 5000 RPM tach (not for an Olds)

On Thu, 11 Dec 1997, Glenn Connors wrote:

> At 09:57 PM 12/9/97 -0700, you wrote:
> >Does anyone know if there exists a tach that goes only upto 5000 RPM?
> >I'm trying to find one for my bro's I/H Scout II for X-mas.
> >Thanks
> >
> >Ray dealing with "El Nino" in the Sonoran Desert Costanzo
> >87 409 Cutlass 
> >
> >
> 
>     Just checked my NAPA catolog and found a 3000 RPM, 3500 RPM, as well as
> a 6000 RPM tachometer but no 5000 RPM tachs.  You may want to check with a
> marine parts house.
> 
> 
>      Glenn
>      '69 4-4-2
> 
> 
Thanks Glen, I'll check it out.


Ray dealing with "El Nino" in the Sonoran Desert Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 16:40:52 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Olds & Youth

On Thu, 11 Dec 1997, BMAN6771 wrote:


Yeah, well I'm 22 and have an 87.  




Sorry


> In a message dated 97-12-11 17:18:33 EST, you write:
> 
> << Now, who says America's youth is going down the tubes?  :-)
>  
>  Doug Newman
>  Columbus, MS
>  1987 442 >>
>  
> ya, im 15 and my dad is helpin me put back together a 1967 cutlass
> convertible. i love oldsmobiles!
> 
> brent
> 1967 cutlass convertible
> 

Ray dealing with "El Nino" in the Sonoran Desert Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 97 19:12:27 EST
From: Glenn Connors <gpc442@buffnet.net>
Subject: Re: I almost had a 71

At 03:45 PM 12/11/97 -0700, you wrote:
>
>Let me know if I'm a fool or the other guy is please.  Over the summer i
>went to look at a 71 Cutlass S convertible that was for sale.  I was
>hoping it was owned by a senior citizen, but it was owned by a 400 pound
>hairy alcoholic instead.  Still cool though.  The condition of the car was
>rather poor.  It had a considerable amount of rust around the wheels and
>some other spots.  The interior was totally trashed, slashed seats, no
>headliner, stains, ripped carpet, etc., etc.  The top on it was new,
>surprisingly, and it still had no problems moving.  The engine was
>original (350), and the car had 160,000 miles.  I drove it, and, not to my
>surprise since it is an Olds, it ran quite smoothly.  The electrical
>system in the car was really rigged.  There were wires hanging out that
>you had to twist together if you wanted to listen to the radio or put the
>top down and stuff like that.  Anyway, this guy was asking $4500 for this
>car.  I realize that this car is valuable and all, but that much for the
>shape it was in?       Is he nuts?      Thanks
                        >>>>>>>>>>>
  
     Nope, probably just drunk.
  

     Glenn
     '69 4-4-2

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 18:06:34 -0600
From: Thomas Martin <Thomas_Martin@css.mot.com>
Subject: The one that got away

My mom had a rust free 1957 Olds 98 Starfire Coupe Convertible, J2
Rocket and all, would lay rubber at 45 mph when you stood on the GO
pedal.  It was the Turquoise Blue and white, chrome everything.  He dad
was insanely jealous, he had a 57 Chevy.  Should I say more?  Ok, well,
my mom (19 or so at the time, 1962) noticed one day it started to leak a
little oil.  She asked her dad to look at it (he was a mechanic).  He
told her that it had a cracked block and to sell it right away.  She
trusted him and did.  She got $175 for it in 1964.  Still no rust, the
salesman who drove it personally for 2 years after that.  She is still
mad about it.  

BTW, if anyone ever sees a Blue and white 57 98 Starfire Coupe
Convertible, PLEASE EMAIL ME!!!!  We would love too see the car again,
or at least know it whereabouts and get some pictures.  The car was
bought and sold in Grand Rapids, MI.  

Thomas Martin
85 Cutlass Supreme Rocket 350 CCC

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 18:26:40 -0600
From: Thomas Martin <Thomas_Martin@css.mot.com>
Subject: re: 455 buildup on a budget

As to the THM400 from a 76 Delta it is a LONG tailshaft, this will
require mods to fit, ie shorter driveshaft, you must move the
crossmember rearward, may require longer speedo cable , etc.  The THM400
is by far the better transmission.  I would recommend it as the trans of
choice.  The 76 Delta 88/98 Regency had a towing package (3.23's,
THM400, HD cooling, 455) that allowed for a 7000 lbs. towing capacity.
Your Delta will never tow anything like that with a THM250.

Hope you get it going!  Should be a great driving car!!  Add the Impala
SS suspension mods to the 81 Delta, it will help a lot for cornering and
stability under hard power with the 455.

Thomas Martin
85 Cutlass Supreme Rocket 350 CCC

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:44:01 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: re: 455 buildup on a budget

On Thu, 11 Dec 1997, Thomas Martin wrote:

> 
> Hope you get it going!  Should be a great driving car!!  Add the Impala
> SS suspension mods to the 81 Delta, it will help a lot for cornering and
> stability under hard power with the 455.

Hi Mr. Martin,
My brother has an Impala SS that i am blessed enough to occasionally
drive.  The handling abilities of that car are quite impressive
considering its massiveness.  You're telling this guy to add those mods to
his 88.  Is everything swapable, do you know?  The next car I buy will
likely be an 85 two door Caprice (sorry).  I imagine everything would be
swapable on this, too, right?




> 
> Thomas Martin
> 85 Cutlass Supreme Rocket 350 CCC
> 

Ray dealing with "El Nino" in the Sonoran Desert Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:46:23 -0700
From: Charley Buehner <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Re: request for g body owners

> Due primarily to economic reasons, I am going to have to put off my '85
> Cutlass project for a while,

Ouch.

 and will probably wind up selling the car.

Nooooooooo!!!  Don't do it!!!!!!!

> As a result, I will be leaving the list shortly.

May go to digest?  We won't exclude non-Olds owners, although we may
give ya a hard time for selling it :(

> If there is anyone on the list who has owned or worked on a G-body Cutlass
> and wouldn't mind getting a few questions e-mailed directly to them,
> please send me an off-list reply with a short description of the kind of
> repairs and modifications you have done or considered.

Tom, check out my web page, linked below, if you haven't already.  I've
done probably ~everything~ imaginable to the Rockit.  (Everything except
maybe a navigation computer and jet engine-- Hmmm.  Nope Rocket engine's
still better!  :)

That'll maybe give you a few ideas of what's possible.  Feel free to
send q's to me.  Make sure to put my name in the subject line, though,
since many of the list q's don't get read on my lunch hour.  (I hate the
thought of losing personal mail, though) That way I won't accidentally
delete it before reading it.


- -- 
               Charley Buehner -- The Oldsmobile Magnet
For Me:  mailto:buehner@lyrea.com       mailto:charley@rocketship.com
		http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner
    Sidney Radio Shack:     mailto:redline_av@webtv.net
		        Sidney Montana

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:17:28 -0600
From: katana72@juno.com (Rob T)
Subject: Re: NO MORE AIR

Heck  a piece of sheetmetal,some tin snips, some black paint, screws and
a drill would do the job fairly well. I've seen this done before and it
came out NICE !!!

Katana72          "It's NOT yourDaddy's Oldsmobile !!!!!    Hastings, MN

On Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:45:33 EST ANTIQ OLDS <ANTIQOLDS@aol.com> writes:
>In a message dated 97-12-11 15:34:49 EST, you write:
>
><< 
> Heck, this is something that I thought the aftermarket would have 
>come up
> with by now: a simple heavy-duty fiberglass box to convert an A/C car 
>to
> non-A/C.
> __________________________________________________________
> B >>
>   Karls Korner Worth Ill 1-708-597-0415 has fabricated the firewall 
>section
>under this heater or  A/C box for anyone that wants to go either way, 
>add a/c
>or delete a/c. They are about $75.00  and are a nice unit. He had them 
>at the
>Atlanta Nationals in '96 so got a chance to see how good they are, 
>well worth
>the money.
>
>Everett  OCA# 1961   1961 Starfire
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 20:03:29 -0500
From: m-hanneman@onu.edu
Subject: Re: The one that got away

At 04:08 PM 12/11/97 -0700, you wrote:
>On Thu, 11 Dec 1997, Mike Krumwiede MIS Technician wrote:
>
>> Well, a while back I had asked how much an 85 Olds Cultass 442 with a 
>> transplanted 455 would be worth, he was asking $2500.00 Well, I was 
>> in the process of getting the loan, and the bank dragged there feet 
>> too long and now it belongs to some guy in chicago who is 
>> driving it for a "winter beater", the original owner told me the  guy 
>> told him he didn't want to bang up his new Mazda durring the winter 
>> months....The one that got away.
>
>
>WHAT!?!  THAT GUY NEEDS A SERIOUS BEATING!  ANYONE LIVE IN CHICAGO OR WANT
>TO GO THERE WITH ME TO FIND THIS GUY?  WE'LL KICK HIS A*S IN FRONT OF HIS
>WIFE AND STEAL HIS CAR.
>
>
>> 
>> 1977 Olds Cutlass 350 4bbl
>> 1978 Olds Delta 88 Royale 350 4bbl
>> 
I'M WITH YA.  SOMEONE LIKE THAT DOESN'T DESERVE AN OLDS!!!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:14:33 -0600
From: katana72@juno.com (Rob T)
Subject: Re: I almost had a 71

This sounds like the latter version of the car in the movie," Kingpin"
and similar to my 72. I bought mine from a drunk out in Va and in similar
condition. I paid $900.00 for mine (hardtop), which was probably $400.00
too much, especially since a cherry 71 LeMans came up for sale right down
the block from me for $800.00 or best offer. I think it went for $700.00.
That car had 64k original miles and was in perfect shape, but it wasn't a
Cutlass!!! I feel that $4500.00 is kind of high for hat your getting.
Sounds more like a $2500.00 car to me. But what do I know??

Katana72          "It's NOT yourDaddy's Oldsmobile !!!!!    Hastings, MN

On Thu, 11 Dec 1997 15:45:08 -0700 (MST) Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU> writes:
>Let me know if I'm a fool or the other guy is please.  Over the summer 
>i>went to look at a 71 Cutlass S convertible that was for sale.  I was
>hoping it was owned by a senior citizen, but it was owned by a 400 
>pound>hairy alcoholic instead.  Still cool though.  The condition of the
car 
>was>rather poor.  It had a considerable amount of rust around the wheels

>and>some other spots.  The interior was totally trashed, slashed seats,
no
>headliner, stains, ripped carpet, etc., etc.  The top on it was new,
>surprisingly, and it still had no problems moving.  The engine was
>original (350), and the car had 160,000 miles.  I drove it, and, not 
>to my>surprise since it is an Olds, it ran quite smoothly.  The
electrical
>system in the car was really rigged.  There were wires hanging out 
>that>you had to twist together if you wanted to listen to the radio or
put 
>the>top down and stuff like that.  Anyway, this guy was asking $4500 for

>this>car.  I realize that this car is valuable and all, but that much
for 
>the>shape it was in?  Is he nuts?  Thanks
>
>Ray dealing with "El Nino" in the Sonoran Desert Costanzo
>87 409 Cutlass
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:53:37 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: The one that got away

I have one of these stories too... some of you may recall back in the 
spring when i was looking for another car to drive regularly I came 
across an '83 H/O advertised at $5000 Canadian, about $33-3500 US. It was 
about an hour away so I put off going to look at it and by the time I got 
there it had sold. I don't know I I ever mentioned what happened to the 
car. The guy who bought it runs the local NAPA parts store and I saw it 
later on in the summer. I expected a clapped-out car, but what he got was 
a beautiful, original, virtually perfect example with about 70k miles on 
it. Needless to say he was pleased and he knew what he had. This had been 
a pampered car, 1 owner, who had passed away last winter. The car was 
sold by his daughter who just wanted to get rid of it. 

This one still eats at me. I see these advertised now in the $10-$12K 
range in JWO almost every month. Ouch! 

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 20:55:59 EST
From: DR OLDS350 <DROLDS350@aol.com>
Subject: Re: 70 Burl Wood Grain (where did it all go?)

I just went to the Parts Place in Batavia, Illinois and asked about the
woodgrain. I asked if they had the burlwood pattern for the glovebox door and
the instrument cluster, and they had it. I paid 50.00 for those two pieces. My
woodgrain problem is all over.

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:04:51 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: more on '71 f/s

Ah, the '71 f/s is in Kentucky. RARE big-valve J heads.

> From RPayne9620@aol.com Thu Dec 11 13:20:19 1997
> From: RPayne9620 <RPayne9620@aol.com>
> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 13:12:10 EST

> chris the car i have is a 71 but it has a 68 hi com j heads 2.07 intake 1.68
> exhaust
> and new 750cfm carb 3 weeks old  many parts 2 doors with glass  new th-400
> and more i live in kentucky owensboro  502-264-1993

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 19:22:13 -0700
From: NOVAMARK@webtv.net (MARK ERTHUM)
Subject: Re: the one that got away

I wouldn't be caught dead in a mazda
and especially during winter in Phx. with snowbirds in big Cadillacs and
monster motorhomes all over the freeways and streets.

Talk to ya later,
Mark from Az.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:35:01 -0500
From: Matt Cremean <ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
Subject: Re: Olds & Youth

Eric.Aksomitis@swp.com wrote:
> 
> Yeah, I'm 20 and just got a 71 Cutlass to go with my 72 98 and 75 cutlass
> Eric Aksomitis
> http://www.cs.uregina.ca/~aksomi/
> 
>  --------
> Hey Doug, this is Jake.  I saw your message and just thought that I would
> tell you I am 18 too.  I have a 72 Cutlass Supreme with a 455 in it.  Write
> me back sometime.

No-yeah! 17 (18 before 1998) and sportin a '73 Cutlass Supreme
(undergoing restoration) and a '75 Cutlass 'S' (parts car).

- -- 
**********************************
Matt Cremean
mailto:ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
CreamerSoftİ Software
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Park/5988/creamersoft.html
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
1973 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/73olds.html
**********************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:36:26 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: 4V heads

Area of a 1.4 in. valve is: 1.539
Area of a 2.8 in. valve is: 6.158

So, two 1.4 in. valves would flow 3.078, or just slightly (.001) under the
area of the 2.8 inch size.

One other thing to mention about this is that four valves, equally spaced
around the combustion chamber, allows for a centrally located spark plug,
which helps the ignition process.
=========================
Uhm, must be a typo, I get that 2x 1.4" valves is just under HALF the flow area
of the single 2.8" valve. 'Course we need to subtract TWO valve stem areas from
the former and one slightly larger from the latter...

One other thing to mention about the 4V heads is the 2x cost when it comes time
to buy new ones or have a valve job done... Like most hi-tech advancements,
GREAT while working, sucks when needs service.
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:31:44 EST
From: KarlAune <KarlAune@aol.com>
Subject: Rumors and aftermath

There have been some rumors floating around that I was unsubscribing.

The people who have been perpetuating these rumors (including me) are wrong.
But then, a rumor is not a rumor if it does not die. (someone explain that to
me)

When I called AOL to cancel the 30day/50hour trial, they gave me a Christmas
bonus of an additional 30 days. Actually this is not suprising as they would
previously call back people who cancel after the freebie and offer 30 free
days. Much better from a marketing standpoint to assail the person who called
them with free stuff.   but anyway....

Two hour's work in the cold (and REALLY dark) and I managed to get my hood
latch back into a form and position from where it can function (because it
really sucks to accelerate to/beyond highway speeds at WOT with a hood that is
not secure!) It functions now, but it will still need to be replaced. Hood is
still a little bit askew, although I hope I can have that straightened out and
unbent, I did damage a considerable amount of hood trim. Mayhaps I shall look
for a rust free 1965 Dynamic 88 that does not run and use it for frame/sheet
metal..... 

No! Never give up!

After all; "The needs of the one Oldsmobile restorer outweigh the needs of the
many." - K. Aune, 1997

Well, I have got all this free online time. I had oughta get started catchin'
up on the Email. Fortunately there are a number of holidays coming up.......

P.S. Not to harsh on anyone or sound preachy, but I have always worn my seat
belt, and I have never been sorry that I did. 'Nuff said.

Karl Aune
Chicago, IL

1965 Dynamic 88 Celebrity Sedan (many love marks)

Just call me "crash."    (I guess.)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:39:12 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: runaway motor

defective, or the more likely case is she hit reverse and if the engine was
racing, it would tear up a planetary set, etc.
==============
I could believe that.

Like the turning off of the key, there is a KEY safety feature that everyone is
supposed to know about... if you do not override the shifter detents [don't
pull column lever toward you, don't depress console ball or button, etc.] then
you can move the shift lever back -n- forth from N to D easily. If you REALLY
want N, just NUDGE the lever into that position. Spread the word.
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:45:14 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: ps pump replacement

>2)  Supposing I DO replace the pump...do I need to "drain" the steering
>fluid or anything?  I know some will spill out.  Is this fine, just re-fill
>after installation?

Be ready with a drain pan; disconnect the hoses at the steering box, and let
them drain into the pan. You'll still spill a heck of a lot of fluid, so be
prepared with the speedy-dry.

>If it becomes necessary for me to replace the gearbox, does any kind of
>"bleeding" of the system need to be done after replacement?
===============
Most pumps come with instructions that you should or must flush the system. A
good way to do it is: get a couple extra jugs o' PS fluid. Install the new
pump. Install pressure hose. Plug return hose fitting at pump. Run return hose
from steering box to drain pan- secure it well. Fill pump. Run engine or disco
the spark so you can crank w/o starting. Pump 2-3 qts of fluid thru in this
way, moving the steering would help flush crannies. Then connect return hose
properly, fill & turn lock to lock 2-3x until air is gone, letting sit until
foam is dissipated.
  Oh, you can get an in-line filter to trap any particles that might be left,
goes into the return line. Slips right inside, stays hidden.
  All this is to make sure the old pump did not leave gifts of metal shavings
as it died. The gift that keeps on giving. :-)
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:53:11 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: Soylent Ocean Crunch

Anyway, I can get some of the parts I will need to replace from yards in South
Beloit and Southern Wisconsin. I would, however, appreciate it if anyone who
spies 1965 full-size cars in their local yards to contact me. At this moment,
the only part that I do not know where to find is the grille. There might be
one in South Beloit, but that is a long shot, I have to consult Chris Ruper on
that one.
KarlAune@aol.com
============
Karl, would a Starfire Grille do? ;-)

I have that and two other '65 88's for parts. Lansing, MI but you knew that
from the sig file, right?
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 02:55:24 +0000
From: clarence wirtz <cw63nova@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Tires

At 04:19 AM 12/11/97 +0000, you wrote:
>
>Hey J,
>I had 235 60 15's on my 81 on a set of the SSII wheels(?) 
>.  I've learned from other people here that 255's are possible
>with the correct backspacing.
>
>
>t 235mm wide tires on a G-Body. 


Jason and Ray,

I am running 245 60 15's on the back of my 86 Cutlass on the SSII's. They
dont rub at all.  I dont know about the front I have smaller on the front. I
dont know if this will help.

I am getting ready for a trip north in a couple weeks,  the 245's are a
little lacking in the tread department, so I will get a couple new tire with
fresh tread in case I run in to any of the white stuff. Put them on the back
for the trip and then put the wide ones back on when I get home again.  I
have 6 of the SSII's so I can leave them mounted.  I guess I need to keep my
foot out of the 
fan and not push it so hard so they will last longer.:)  I dont know why the
back wore out before the front:) HA.

Later  
Clarence
86 Cutlass 4DR 307 O/D 2.56's
San Antonio

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:56:07 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: long th400?

All ready to put my new 400/TH400 into my '67 ragrop. Drop it in, go to line
up the transmission mount with the frame rail attachment points and find that
the brackets on the frame are too far forward.  Check on my '67 HT parts car
and  the frame mounting brackets are very long, and very different than the
little short jobs on my convert. Trans mount/crossmember looks the same.

Am I missing something? Seems very unlike GM to build a frame that would need
special welding to accept a different trans--especially as because what I'm
installiing is a box-stock equivalent of a '67 442 motor/trans combo.

Anybody out there run across this? Before I go welding onto the frame just
want to make sure I'm not using the proper crossmember or some simple cure.
Now, it looks like I've got to weld some new perches onto the frame rails
~8-10" back from the ones I've got.
CoupeKing
===========
Generally, the convertibles have a boxed frame, requires a different x-member
from the other cars. Sound to me like you have a medium to long shaft TH400
there. That's explain the L-O-N-G 9-10" diff in positions. The A-body TH400 has
a rear housing that's only about 4 to 6" overall length from where it bolts to
the trans case to the aft end.
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:59:17 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: big wires

My olds likes to listen to Al Green, with the four 6*9's and four 15' inch
woofers in the back, with four gauge power wire supplying the juice to my
system.
===================
Dang, I was wiring an ABS motor durability tester, we only use #8 wire for
their power. Now, the 1000A power supply I just whipped up, that has "500 MCM"
wires to power the Unit Under Test. That's about 1.00" of fine-strand copper
wire. About 1.2" outer dia. w/ insulation. Damn heavy, too. That'd make killer
sound system cable. Makes the battery look small.
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 22:01:31 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: weld brake drums?

If I can't find free brake drums, I've
always wanted to try and build up an old set with weld, then get them
machined, has anyone ever attempted such a crazy scheme??
===================
Yeeeesh, even *I* would never attempt that. It'd be outrageously expensive,
it'd probably crack 'em anyhow, and the hardness and wear characteristics would
be uncontrollable & unpredictable. you'd be miles ahead if parts were
unavailable to just adapt pcs from another application.
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 22:04:29 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: The Perfect Woman

Of course, there are those of us who already appreciate Oldsmobiles . . .
many times I'm the one dragging the guy to all the car shows!
8)
peg
================
Yeah, but where are they when ya need one?!

Read more about Peg O'connor's philosophies in my new book... "The Perfect
Woman"
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 22:12:14 -0500
From: "Jason K. Adcock" <jadcock@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: ps pump replacement

Chris Brown Witt wrote:
>
>   Oh, you can get an in-line filter to trap any particles that might be left,
> goes into the return line. Slips right inside, stays hidden.

I like the flushing idea...never thought of that.  Can I get these filters
at the local Advance or Trak Auto?  Thanks, Chris.
_____________________________

Jason K. Adcock
mailto:jadcock@vt.edu
http://www.erols.com/adcockjk

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 22:18:11 -0500 (EST)
From: "Peg O'Connor" <peg@grove.ufl.edu>
Subject: Re: Are these SSIIIs something special?

> I got a better look, compared the wheel with the picture.  It looks like the
> holes in the wheels come to a sharper point than the wheels pictured in the
> year one catalog.  (does that make sense?)  Sound like a chevy wheel?

Yeh.  That sharper point is exactly what I think of when I see chevy
wheels.

8)
peg

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 22:26:08 -0500
From: theogns <theogns@avana.net>
Subject: Re: runaway engine

R4C442 wrote:
> 
> Hey list gang,
>     Some food for thought involving the runaway engine syndrome.....suppose
> you're driving a diesel...what then,hmm?

The only way to stop a runaway diesel is to stop the air or fuel. If
it's a detroit diesel get as for away as possible before it explodes.
I'm not sure what the Olds diesel has in the way of emergency shut down
procedures.

Danny

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 22:26:37 EST
From: OLDS44272 <OLDS44272@aol.com>
Subject: Re: sounds (my take on the subject)

  I wasn't slamming anybody, i was just trying to ask that in the 70's.what
cars were the "hot rods" of the time. Not every high school kid could afford a
new/real muscle car at the time. I thought in the 70's people would hot rod
cars 20 years old.....or around the 50's

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:35:37 -0600
From: dnewman@wcbi.com (Doug Newman)
Subject: Re: Olds & Youth

Matt Cremean wrote:

>No-yeah! 17 (18 before 1998) and sportin a '73 Cutlass Supreme
>(undergoing restoration) and a '75 Cutlass 'S' (parts car).
>
>**********************************
>Matt Cremean
>mailto:ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu
>+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=

Judging from the replies so far, this proves that not all young people are
buying Geo Trackers and having them lowered.  (I'm only pushing 32, so I'm
not ready for the rocking chair...yet.  :-)  Usually, if someone is
introduced to Oldsmobiles early in life, they'll stick with Olds.  (In my
case, anyway.)

.02 cents  (...with one cent change...)

Doug Newman
Columbus, MS
1987 442

http://www.442.com/newman.html      

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 22:40:07 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: auto courtesy lites

Here's a question:
I have a keyless entry system in my 87 that was a hookup to turn the
courtesy lights on for thirty second (or until the car's started) after
the doors are unlocked.  How on earth can I get to the hot lead for the
interior lights.  I've tried taking apart the headlight switch, and found
the wire back there, but it's not really accesible enough to use.  I've
also tried screwing around with the switch in the door jam, but couldn't
really do anythin there either.  I will have the dash apart in the future
when I swap in the cool instrument cluster.  Perhaps this will open up
some possibilities.  Any help is greatly appreciated.
Ray dealing with "El Nino" in the Sonoran Desert Costanzo
- ------------------------------
The real question is why do you care about the ctsy lites' HOT wire. You can
access it at the fuse. I should think you'd want the auto starter/ unlocker/
whatever to imitate the door jamb switch- just ground that wire for the
duration. You just need to pull the kick panel or maybe not even that- find the
door switch wires heading that way and tap in there.
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 22:50:10 EST
From: OLDS44272 <OLDS44272@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Olds & Youth(long)

     My first car was a 72 Cutlass Supreme.I bought the car when i was 15
years old. My fater had a 72 Cutlass S which he bought from the neighbor who
was the original owner. My father co-worker had a son who went to a mechanic
school in Ilionis. My car was one that was donated for the class to work on.
The school was upgrading the fleet of cars for the students to work on. This
car was for sale for $200. It was a 2 door,auto,350, buckets and floor shift.
Came in grey primer and most of the wiring harnesses were exposed. I spent the
winter putting it back right. I had it painted forest green with gold pearl.
It was a great car to drive around. I had big plans for the car but wrecked it
when i was 17.   I parted the car out ( i got hit from behind) and made some
money on it. I passed up a lot of newer Cutlasses becuase i wanted another 72.
I found my next Cutlass at a Revco parking lot. This is a true story. I put a
note under the wiper arm that said ' i would like to but this car. Call me if
it is ever for sale". A year later, i got a call from the elderly owner. Come
over and make an offer. It was a 72 Supreme,350 auto. nothing special car. It
had 48,000 miles on it. I bought that one for $1800. I drove it every day and
went to alot of cruiser nights at the local hang outs like Big Boys. Several
years past, i got laid off. Needing money, i sold the car for $4000. Wish i
still had it. This time around i want a 72 convertable!  By the way, i am
26.......thanks for reading.....SCOTT.  90 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 97 22:32:40 -0500
From: "padavano.joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Re[2]: engine ID by VIN

rayc@U.Arizona.EDU said:

RAY,
     
See the following response to my same question from Joe...
     
     Tough to do.  You can get a _little_ more info from the engine ID
     number stamped into a pad on the left front corner of the 
     block...<snip my description of engine ID number>...
     
While Ray dealing with "El Nino" in the Sonoran Desert Costanzo (who 
needs a shorter tag line) originally asked:

Question:
I know on my Cutli that the 8th character in the VIN id's the original 
engine.  Is this true for all GM's, all American cars, all Oldses or what? 
If so, what would the character be for a 403 in say an Olds Custom 
Cruiser?  Will this code be the same on any 403 vehicle?

     Whoa.
     
     Someone has apparently confused my description of the engine ID number 
     with Soggy Ray's question about the actual VIN.  I was referring to 
     the number stamped on the engine block itself, which tells you GM 
     Division, year of manufacture (at least, the last digit of the year), 
     location of manufacture, and last six digits of the VIN of the car in 
     which the motor was originally installed.  
     
     Ray's question about the VIN of his Cutlass had to do with the VIN 
     located at the base of the car's windshield.  In that case, the 
     inclusion of a character in the VIN to designate the engine installed 
     in the car actually started with the 1972 model year.  Prior years did 
     not include such a designator.
     
     Hope this clears up the confusion.
     
     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com
     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30
     
     
     
     
     

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 97 22:53:30 -0500
From: "padavano.joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: One that got away, one that didn't

     Someone (Fernando?) mentioned going to look at an intake and finding a 
     69 H/O.  This jogged two memories, one that got away and one that 
     didn't.
     
     The one that got away was actually an intake manifold.  Regular 
     readers will recall that I've got an exotic intake manifold fetish, 
     which currently includes (all for a big block) a factory 2x4 cross 
     ram, a factory 4x2 Weber, an Algon "calliope stack" fuel injection 
     setup, a 66 tri-power, the 69 H/O intake, and the commonplace (well, 
     compared to the others) W-30 intake.  The one that got away was 
     offered for sale at the Pomona swap meet about 12 years ago.  It was a 
     6-71 blower manifold for a big block Olds produced by Sharp.  Asking 
     price was something like $200, and I passed on it.  I later found out 
     that this is the type of intake used on the Hurst Hairy Olds funny 
     car!  I don't know how many were cast, or if this particular one came 
     from the HHO, but now I wish I'd grabbed it.  I'm going to need two of 
     those when I build my reproduction HHO ;-)
     
     The one that didn't get away was my 68 W-30.  I've told this story  
     before, so briefly, the add said "69 442 body for sale, Hurst front 
     end, $400".  Needing parts for my 69 H/O, and obviously curious about 
     this "Hurst front end", I went to look at it, finding instead a 
     trashed 68 442 with the engine and trans removed and ready to install 
     in the seller's 56 Ford F-100.  Turning to leave, I lifted the hood on 
     the 68, only to find red fenderwells and O.A.I. ducts!  It took about 
     an hour to talk the seller into selling me the complete car (with 
     engine and trans) for $800.
     
     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com
     
     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 22:54:49 EST
From: CRuper1 <CRuper1@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Power Tour

In a message dated 97-12-11 19:58:30 EST, you write:

<< 
 
 Is anyone planning on participating in this years Power Tour.  The Olds
 ratio last year was rather low, but of course the "quality not quantity"
 idea could defend us.  If anyone is considering it, I highly recommend it.
 Just make sure your car is able to cruise at 100MPH for sustained periods
 of time through Nevada and other arid states.
 
 Ray in the desert
 87 409 Cutlass 
 
  >>

I suppose there are good reasons why my car has 2.29's in it....  to go on the
Power Tour.  Actually, I've kinda tinkered with the idea, but it'd take some
planning since we have 2 kids (2.5 yrs, and 7 yrs.) who would be in school at
the time.  That, plus the fact that I'd have to drive from Illinois out, then
back (yes, I'm interested in doing a "full tour").  Maybe this coming year
I'll just hop on the tail end (drive down to St. Louis, or something like
that), then follow it up to Mich., and then I'll work on that "full tour"
thing in a few years.  Hmmm..., just thinking...., when is the Power Tour
supposed to be?, and when are the spring Nat'ls. in Springfield?  Conflicting
dates possibly?  I'm not sure what the dates for both are (off-hand, at
least).

Chris Ruper

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 97 23:06:54 -0500
From: "padavano.joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Re: weld brake drums?

If I can't find free brake drums, I've
always wanted to try and build up an old set with weld, then get them 
machined, has anyone ever attempted such a crazy scheme?? 
===================
Yeeeesh, even *I* would never attempt that. It'd be outrageously expensive, 
it'd probably crack 'em anyhow, and the hardness and wear characteristics would 
be uncontrollable & unpredictable. you'd be miles ahead if parts were 
unavailable to just adapt pcs from another application.
     
     Boy, funny this should come up.  Last time I hit the Pomona swap meet 
     (August, maybe?), there was a vendor who was _flame spraying_ metal 
     back onto excessively worn drums and rotors, obviously planning to 
     make his money on long-out-of-production parts.  Rotors for the 
     four-piston 67-68 disc brakes were his specialty.
     
     Apparently, he flame-sprays steel onto the worn parts, then machines 
     the items back into tolerance.  He claimed that the steel had better 
     wear properties than the cast iron and also ran cooler (obviously, I 
     have no experience with this vendor or his process, usual disclaimers, 
     yadda, yadda...).  He had some samples at his booth, and I was, well, 
     unimpressed.  The flame sprayed metal did not look as if it were 
     applied particularly evenly, and I have no idea how well it will stay 
     on under severe braking.  I suspect this is intended primarily for 
     trailer queen show cars which _must_ have the correctly date-coded 
     rotors to go with the original air in the tires, etc....
     
     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com
     
     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:09:52 -0500
From: Dave Ward <ward@ptbo.igs.net>
Subject: Re: big wires

Chris Brown Witt wrote:
> 
> My olds likes to listen to Al Green, with the four 6*9's and four 15' inch
> woofers in the back, with four gauge power wire supplying the juice to my
> system.
> ===================
> Dang, I was wiring an ABS motor durability tester, we only use #8 wire for
> their power. Now, the 1000A power supply I just whipped up, that has "500 MCM"
> wires to power the Unit Under Test. That's about 1.00" of fine-strand copper
> wire. About 1.2" outer dia. w/ insulation. Damn heavy, too.

I guess it'd be tough to strip with a pair of wire cutters, eh?

The bigger the wire, the higher the resistance....right?  With the
system I'm running in the '78 Delta, I've got 20 feet of 8ga. power
wire, which is more than adequate for the 200 watts I'm pushing right
now.  I wanted to use 4ga. because I plan to upgrade in the future, but
I was told that it would make my system less efficient (while I'm only
running the one Sony EXM-502).

I guess that's why a pair of speakers (or more) will sound better when
running a 2 ohm resistance as opposed to 4 ohm.  I guess that makes the
old 10 ohm speakers look rather antiquated...

- ----------------------------------------- 
S. Dave Ward  (mailto:ward@ptbo.igs.net)

'78 Delta 88 Royale (350 4bbl.)
'85 Delta 88 R.B.   (307 4bbl.)
'91 GMC Sierra 4x4  (305 TBI)

(Ennismore, Ontario, CANADA)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:13:14 -0500
From: ithefunki <ithefunki@viperlink.net>
Subject: Re: G-body model

Ray wrote:

> > Well, performance wise, cant argue the 86-87 gn(x). But looks??? I think your
> > not gonna find any takers for that on this list. 

> Seriously Bernie, I love my Oldses and I think the H/O's and 442's are
> beautiful looking cars.  But the Grand National is the most gorgeous (in a
> sinister kind of way) car out there, regardless of its flaw of being a
> Buick. 

Hey, the non-GN guys will defend are Oldses, so gotta defend or sister
ships...  <G>

The blackout trim is a sinester look I must admit...  I get a kick outta
the black  out chrome, kinda looks like a "poor man's" race car!!!  <G>

> p.s.  Out here in Tucson, seeing a GN is very rare.  One guy is cool
> enough to have his at the dgarstrip evey now and then, but mostly they're
> not around.  

In Charleston, SC, there are quite a few GNs....  I get a kick outta the
guy that raced his at the track....  He ran a GN on the track, in stock
form, and had another GN that he'd tow the race car with...  Both cars
were EXACTLY the same...      Except the LP's on the back!!!!   
hahahah...  There are also a few for sale... All either too  expensive,
or too high for the asking, or molested big time.....

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:19:10 -0500
From: ithefunki <ithefunki@viperlink.net>
Subject: Re: G-body model

Ray wrote:
>
> > BTW, The Regal and Monte Carlo LS had to be in REAL nice shape for me to
> > even think about buying....  I got LUCKY, I got a Cutlass Supreme with
> > the 307 3Spd Column in AWESOME shape by accident for $2000 even!  Such
> > ends this search...  I'd still trade my Cutlass for a decent GN in a
> > heart beat.........  Just something about turbo charged V6's FACTORY
> > AMERICAN STEEL I love!
> 
> Maybe you shouldn't have said that in the presence of all these hardcore
> Olds nuts, but I agree with ya.

Wouldn't it be a blast to get a hold of a totaled GN, steal the motor,
and the mechanical parts like suspension, tranny, rear end, engine,
computer....... And slide it under a Cutlass....  Blow a GN owner's
mind...  Oh, got another plan........  Stick a 455 in an 87 Cutlass. 
Sit at the finish line and see the look on the GN's owner's face!!! 
hahahaha

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:15:57 EST
From: CCRR12 <CCRR12@aol.com>
Subject: Re: UNBOUNCE: Engine color

Ref: Mike Schlottman with Black Engine

My answer would be that 99.99% of the reasonable persons couldn't care less
what color their replacement engine is. They just want it to work. If the
cosmetics of your engine compartment are important to you, you will most
likely have to see to it yourself. I'm sure the Mike Rothe's of the world will
gladly repaint and detail your engine but you will pay dearly. Their primary
concern is the function of the engine as that is their expertise, and that
should be your first expectation. Most of us find that the pure grunt work is
what the owner's have to do that you can't hire done. That what makes each car
reflect the individual that owns it. 

The really nice cars that are detailed are mostly likely the second or third
version by the owner. Each project is a learning experience, training you how
to do it better the next time. 

Sorry, I don't mean to sound like an a**hole. But the error is yours for
assuming that the rebuilder would paint a a stock color. Actually you not only
should have specified such, but should have supplied the paint if you are
particular.

By the way, I use to paint the oil-leaking small block in my 57 Chevy black to
hide the oil stains and make the upper engine accessories stand out. Worked
for me, and thats all that counted. 

Randy in Okla
57 88 J/2
49 F-1

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:21:33 -0500
From: ithefunki <ithefunki@viperlink.net>
Subject: Re: I almost had a 71

Rob T wrote:

> Cutlass!!! I feel that $4500.00 is kind of high for hat your getting.
> Sounds more like a $2500.00 car to me. But what do I know??

Sounds more like a $500 deal to me!!!  <G>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 15:50:28 -0500
From: Matt Cremean <ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
Subject: Re: H/O parts

James Thingwold wrote:
> 
> Got this message off my page - know nothing about these parts, etc.
> 
> 83/84 hurst olds factory hood scoop
> NEW asking $200.00 obo
> call (419)538-6386 Toledo,OH

Hey, that's by me. I could check it out if anybody's interested?

- -- 
**********************************
Matt Cremean
mailto:ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
CreamerSoftİ Software
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Park/5988/creamersoft.html
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
1973 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/73olds.html
**********************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 03:54:49 -0500
From: mrhell@m1.sprynet.com
Subject: Re: The one that got away

On Thu, 11 Dec 1997, Thomas G Allen <mutga1@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> wrote:
>>Does anyone else have a story about an Olds that they 
coulda/shoulda/woulda bought, but for some reason didn't>


Here's one that I'm still trying to "reel in".  Haven't lost it yet though;

A few miles from my house there's a 1968 Cutlass S which has been sitting a 
L-O-N-G time.  The plate has an 88' registration sticker, so I'm assuming 
it's been there 10+ years.  The car is rough but ALL stock and totally 
complete.  I left a note on the person's house, but no response yet. 
<<(Hmmm, going to make me work for this one are ya?)>>

I want to "invest" and buy it as a parts car because;

Again, totally complete and stock, with a 350.  Rear seat looks original 
and is in EC, hood and front grill are perfect, even has 2 headlights with 
"T8" on them ;), dash pad is in EC, rest of dash and interior is in GC 
except for carpet, front bench seat, and headliner.  Outside body parts may 
be usable, but have rust in the usual places.  Not bad though considering 
it's a MI car! 

I'll keep everyone updated.  Hopefully, I can track down the owner over my 
time off this holiday.

RC Hellebuyck
1971 4-4-2 covt.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 13:03:08 -0800 (PST)
From: John Pajak <jspajak@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: NO MORE AIR

- ---Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu> wrote:
 You could replace it with another cover, but you'd have to custom
make one; the factory non-A/C box was of a different configuration,
and will not match up to the holes on the firewall (tried it- didn't
work). You could always use the original box as a pattern or basis for
the replacement box; it would already include the mount for the fan
(I'm assuming you want to keep some kind of heat and ventilation).
Heck, this is something that I thought the aftermarket would have come
up with by now: a simple heavy-duty fiberglass box to convert an A/C
car to non-A/C.

!!!!!!!
Actually it's pretty easy to make one yourself. Take the stock
fiberglass box, remove the AC stuff from it, then cut it all the way
around about 4"-6" from the firewall, leaving the blower area
untouched. Now fabricate a flat metal or fiberglass cover and attach
it to the remaining part of the box. Voila! The heat and defroster
will still work, you have greater engine access, etc. Granted it's not
the prettiest solution, but a lot easier than modifying the firewall
and changing both inner and outer boxes, controls, etc. 

===
John Pajak                            JSPajak@rocketmail.com
Lexington Park, Maryland  HTTP://members.tripod.com/~JSPajak

65 Delta 88 2dr    70 Cutlass S 2dr       72 Cutlass conv   
66 Toronado deluxe 70 Cutlass S W31       72 Delta 88 conv
69 Cutlass S 2dr   70 442 W30 conv        72 442 W30 conv 
70 Cutlass S 2dr   71 Cutlass Supreme 2dr 86 Cutlass Supreme



_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 00:15:18 -0500
From: AEROTECH <jev114@email.psu.edu>
Subject: Re: sounds (my take on the subject)

At 10:26 PM 12/11/97 EST, you wrote:
>  I wasn't slamming anybody, i was just trying to ask that in the 70's.what
>cars were the "hot rods" of the time. Not every high school kid could
afford a
>new/real muscle car at the time. I thought in the 70's people would hot rod
>cars 20 years old.....or around the 50's
>

yeah your right, i guess then it was no different than today when evertone is 
driving mom and dad's car. nothing has chaged people just the cars. except 
now teh hot rods are disguised as pocket rockets == Olds Quad 4

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 00:27:27 EST
From: DByers4601 <DByers4601@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Centennial celebration plaque

In a message dated 97-12-08 16:41:34 EST, you write:

<< mrhell@sprynet.com >>
Brian Espeset, of Mankato, MN got plaque # 442 !!!

                                                     Dave Byers

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:29:46 -0800
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Re: Dec JWO - Pictures

Hear hear - although my 13 year old is a bit under-enthused about the
prospect of the '64 being his when he's driving age.

I was wondering if that picture was your litte one.  Congrats!!


Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, CA

'64 Cutlass, '66 Toronado, '67 Delta 88 Custom, '69 Toronado, '72 Vista
Cruiser (twin hauler)

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

Subscribe To : Lisa's Classic Oldsmobile Bulletin Board Mailing List:
Glass Line's Bulletin Board: http://exo.com/~jht/wwwboard/olds/

*** NEW ***
Lisa's Oldsmobile FREE Banner Exchange
http://exo.com/~jht/olds/banners/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:25:33 -0800
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Re: sounds (Primus)

>Come on admit it, haven't you on such occasions pulled into a deserted rest
>stop,
>left the engine running and the lights on, stepped back from your car to
>admire it.
I like to have someone else drive it so I can see how it "moves".

>imagining that every car you passed, left occupants startled and envious by
>the sound of your thundering dual exhaust as you had timed the gear shift
>right next to their windows that surely had rattled the glass.

Oh but my favorite was the beach side Jack in the Box with the drive thru
that had a wall opposite the pick up window, I could take my C/S convert in
there and gently ease the RPM S to about, 2200 and rattle every window in
the place till they glared at me and slammed the drive up one!!!!  


Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, CA

'64 Cutlass, '66 Toronado, '67 Delta 88 Custom, '69 Toronado, '72 Vista
Cruiser (twin hauler)

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

Subscribe To : Lisa's Classic Oldsmobile Bulletin Board Mailing List:
Glass Line's Bulletin Board: http://exo.com/~jht/wwwboard/olds/

*** NEW ***
Lisa's Oldsmobile FREE Banner Exchange
http://exo.com/~jht/olds/banners/

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #1004
*********************************

