To:	oldsmobile-digest@chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #1041


oldsmobile-digest       Monday, January 5 1998       Volume 01 : Number 1041



UNBOUNCE: Head Bolt Torque
Anit-Theft on '73-'77 Cutlass??
MOTOR
I need stuff
Re: Hotchkis Rear Suspension Parts ?
1965 Oldsmobile Cutlass
Re: senator@itis.com
Need help with a '67 Delta 88!
Re:  was Mondello, now Miller
Re: 1965 Oldsmobile Cutlass
Re: 69 quarters
Re: Hosed
Re: 1970 W-32?
Re: Mid '70s Cutlass/442 parts
Re: 69 quarters
Brother's Automotive reply
Dear Steve (Was Re:  69 quarters)
Re: Oh, Brother!
re crossram
MCC airs Olds Nats97
Re: 69 quarters
Re: Anit-Theft on '73-'77 Cutlass??
Web pages...
Re: 69 quarters
Re: **VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION**
Re: My '78 Olds Cutlass (Long)
Non-performance W-options
Latest progress report on the SX
wtd: 71/2 bumpers
Re: 69 quarters/ Brothers
Re: re crossram
350 Nodular crank
Re: Brothers controversy
Re:  69 quarters-another professionals  perspective
Re: How do I remove Glovebox lock?
Quarters, Brothers,Vendors, Old Cars...
Rear Side Markers
Re: Latest progress report on the SX
Re: Hotchkis Rear Suspension Parts ?
Re: I need stuff
Re: 350 Nodular crank
x-ram Toro motor?
olds-specific mags
403 heads tork
Web Sites.
Header for a 455
Re: 1985 Oldsmobile 442....SS?
(no subject)
Re: Mileage from a 455
1966 Cutlass

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 17:31:05 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: UNBOUNCE: Head Bolt Torque

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: **VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION**

What would the cylinder heads torque specs be for putting 1972 350 heads
on a 1979 403 block?  The head gaskets are 403.  Please reply privately
and asap!

Ray dealing with "El Nino" in the Sonoran Desert Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 16:32:46 -0500
From: Trevor Lee <lee@mergetel.com>
Subject: Anit-Theft on '73-'77 Cutlass??

I was just perusing through the Brothers' online catalogue when I came
across a very interesting statement - for door jamb switches it has a
listing for with and without "Anti-Theft".  What's that all about??

73-77  All front door w/o anti theft (1 terminal)        20-080
1.95
73-77  All front door w/o anti theft (2 terminals)      20-076
4.25
73-77  All front door with anti theft
20-076       4.25

Thanx for any info that can be offered on this.
- --
Trevor Lee (aka Screech), Owner - TL Tech
Rat-Powered '76 Cutlass Supreme Brougham
http://www.mergetel.com/~lee/cutlass/
mailto:lee@mergetel.com
Welland, Ontario, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 16:35:12 EST
From: MINNGG <MINNGG@aol.com>
Subject: MOTOR

I HAVE A 1968 OR 69 UNSURE WHAT YEAR AT THIS POINT , would appreciate any
information about this motor it is a 455 and would really like to know what
the factory horsepower is ? thank you please send e-mail to MINNGG@AOL.COM
THANK'S AGAIN

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 17:05:10 -0500
From: loris <loris@tir.com>
Subject: I need stuff

I need PERFECT (or near perfect) front and rear bumper for a 1972
Cutlass Convertible.
Also, need a sway bar for 1968-1972 Cutlass.  Also, any help on locating
a new accelerator cable for 1968 Cutlass 350cid with 2 bbl factory carb?
Thanks.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 17:04:37 EST
From: RPTW32 <RPTW32@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Hotchkis Rear Suspension Parts ?

Rich,

Have you checked into Dick Miller's rear arms kit.
Dick has spent considerable time developing these pieces for
the Olds platform. Plus he is very involved with Olds performance
and parts. Also Dick sponsors various Olds events with newest being
the Olds Nats. at Norwalk,OH  on Aug 16 this year. (formally the
Mondello meet)  Have you ever attended this event in the past ??
If not and you're into performance then this is the one to hit.
Nothing but Olds powered cars ...... It's quite the sight.

Rgds,
Rob Thomas
69 442

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 17:17:29 -0500
From: "Thomas A. Bromfield" <timberline1@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: 1965 Oldsmobile Cutlass

I have many 65 cutlass parts, both interior and exterior. Anybody
interested?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 16:21:26 -0600
From: senator@itis.com (Robert F. Newbegin Jr.)
Subject: Re: senator@itis.com

Mike Krumwiede writes:
>If you are not sure of the size of the engine, one easy trick that
>used to be one older olds, don't know if it still applies with the
>newer ones, they would stamp the Engine Size behind the oil pour in,
>get a mirror, clean behind the filler, and look behind there, it
>should say 260, 350, or whatever it is. Hope it helps.

That's what one of my books said, but I think that when they swapped the
engine, they put a different filler on.
Thanks anyhow, though.

Bob
'78 Olds Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 16:40:03 -0800
From: Guillermo Javier Reyes Amador <greyes@frisa.com>
Subject: Need help with a '67 Delta 88!

Hi!
I have a Delta 88 1967 conv. and I need to locate someone who can sell
me the emblems and the whole courtesy light of both sides in the rear
seat. I don't care if the parts are originals or NOS.
Thak's for your help!

Guillermo Reyes

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 17:47:09 -0500
From: "W-MACHINES" <wmachine@en.com>
Subject: Re:  was Mondello, now Miller

Olds *Performance* Nations now sponsored by Dick Miller.  This is very good
news.  Dick gets my support!
Rob, you're right, these nat's are quite the sight!
Hey Dick Miller:  Are you getting Linda back again this year?

Kurt    wmachine@en.com
'65 Jetstar 1 4-speed                   '70 Toronado GT W-34 4-sale
'66 442 Sport Coupe 4-speed       '92 Achieva SCX W-41
'66 442 F-85 Deluxe factory L-69  '90 Trofeo

- ----------
> From: RPTW32 <RPTW32@aol.com>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Hotchkis Rear Suspension Parts ?
> Date: Sunday, January 04, 1998 5:04 PM
>
> Rich,
>
> Have you checked into Dick Miller's rear arms kit.
> Dick has spent considerable time developing these pieces for
> the Olds platform. Plus he is very involved with Olds performance
> and parts. Also Dick sponsors various Olds events with newest being
> the Olds Nats. at Norwalk,OH  on Aug 16 this year. (formally the
> Mondello meet)  Have you ever attended this event in the past ??
> If not and you're into performance then this is the one to hit.
> Nothing but Olds powered cars ...... It's quite the sight.
>
> Rgds,
> Rob Thomas
> 69 442

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 18:13:54 EST
From: Bowtie911 <Bowtie911@aol.com>
Subject: Re: 1965 Oldsmobile Cutlass

Yes, looking for following for my 65 442.
hood
radio
dash parts (black)
etc.
let me know prices.
bowtie922@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 18:31:36 -0800
From: "David, Terri and Rob" <hoagie@emeraldis.com>
Subject: Re: 69 quarters

Oldsparts wrote:

>   We are committed, in a big way, to providing the best available
> Oldsmobile
> items to this market.  We intend to do this for at least another 10
> years or
> so.  We don't sell Chevrolet parts.  If we did I would be a retired
> millionaire by now.  I love the old OLDSES and will continue to
> support and
> build this market.   If you have a legitimate problem with a product,
> our
> service, or just us in general,  call us and tell us (preferably
> before
> installation!),  we will pay for the call.  You'll get it off your
> chest and
> we will all feel better.   Still reading R.C.?
>
> Sincerely For Oldsmobiles,
> Steven Kenny
> Brothers Automotive Products
> America's Leading Supplier of Cutlass/442 parts
> 800-442-PART
> WWW.OLDSPARTS.COM

   why don't we just call it what it is: you are commited to selling
olds parts.....thats how you make your money.....you could care less
about the quality of the part...AS LONG AS IT GOES OUT THE DOOR....if
the parts available are junk...so be it...in your eyes....its a
part...and if you sell half of them...its better than selling none....so
stop trying to CONVINCE us that you give a shit about the quality of the
part...we all know what your about...and you've pretty well made that
obvious....so...go make your money...and try and sugar coat it with
people who haven't spent thousands on parts from you and people like you
and have no idea what your about......Hoagie

1970 Cutlass SX convertible
1971 442 W-30 convertible
1971 442 "hardtop coupe"
1971 Monte Carlo
1969 Camaro RS
1997 Camaro Z-28

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 16:51:04 -0500
From: Lloyd Ferguson <ferguson@1stnetusa.com>
Subject: Re: Hosed

>On Tuesday you might recall that the upper rad hose blew off the Delta. I
>put it back on very carefully, tightened it down, and refilled the
>coolant. Today I was waiting in line at a gas station car wash, had been
>there maybe 15 minutes with the motor idling, and the thing blew off again!
>
>I was able to reattach it again right there and once I got home I
>refilled it with coolant -- again. But this is getting ridiculous. Anyone
>have an idea what it could be? Could the rad cap be bad, or could hose
>clamps back off with some heat/cool cycles?
>
>An aside; the car wash taught me that the only way I can stop the water
>leaking into the interior will be to fabricate some sort of baffle for
>inside the heater case. The design of the thing (or at least the way mine
>currenly is) makes me think it's *got* to leak once water enters through
>the cowl vent. Once water makes it to the floor of the heater box the only
>place for it to go is into the floor heater outlet, which is where the
>water comes from. I can see the interior floormats through the heater box
>when looking from the engine side with the case removed and there's
>nothing to stop water from dripping in, especially if the car is pointing
>uphill.
>
>Sigh....
>
>Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

Funny thing, a couple of monts ago, I had a leak in my bypass hose.  Most
of the hoses looked old so I desided to replace everything just on
principle.  I got it all done, pressure checked it using one of those pump
affairs that I borrowed from the parts store and all was fine.  A couple of
days later, I saw a grren drip from under rad on the driver's side.  I took
a quick look under the hood and it appeared to be coming from the bottom of
the rad.  Assuming that I would have to drain my new coolant and take the
rad out and seeing as it wasn't that bad and I don't drive very far I
decided to put off getting it fixed.  I opened the hood the other day after
driving for a while and low and behold it was leaking from around the upper
rad hose.  I tightened the clamp (a new gear one) about 1/4 turn and the
leak went away.  I could see where it had been running down the rad from
the top.

I have always refused to order the "original" clamps from the catalogs as I
thought they were over priced and I thought the gear clamps were better.
This is making me wonder if the gear clamps have a problem with loosening
off.  Does anyone have any experience / insight into this?  Are some gear
clamps better than others?

I remember watching a master plumber do his thing once on gear clamps for
waste fittings.  He said that there are very specific torque specs layed
down in the plumbiing code (at least in Quebec) for installing them.  Maybe
this is the key.

As far as your leak problem, I think there is a drain hole in the bottom of
the heater housing (if yours is air-conditioned) to drain the water getting
in through the cowl vents.  In spite of this I also have had water from
automatic car-washes drop on the passenger's siode floor mats.



Lloyd Ferguson
ferguson@1stnetusa.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:50:58 EST
From: W MACHINES <WMACHINES@aol.com>
Subject: Re: 1970 W-32?

In a message dated 98-01-04 00:46:05 EST, you write:

<< I'm just wondering what in Kurt's statement is being called incorrect? >

I was replying that 4bbl were not standard.  2 bbl 455 was standard thats all

W MACHINES (Mark Prince)
1972 442 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 19:55:52 -0500
From: MROTHE <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Mid '70s Cutlass/442 parts

>
>          Hey Mike, I'm just wondering if you know which suppliers are going
> more heavily into them?

I don't know THAT many, like I said, they are just now starting to
realize that these cars are being collected.  I know recently Soff-seal,
or Metro, or one of those companies now have some mid 70's weather
strips, where they were basically non-existant a while back.  I thought
I also seen somewhere where they were doing some body parts.  I'm not
saying that now you can go and find a mid-70s part just anywhere at any
of the Olds vendors, don't get me wrong, but it seems as though more of
these parts are starting to "trickle" into the mainstream.  But then
again, I may be wrong.  Let us all hope they DO get heavy into them.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 20:01:29 EST
From: W MACHINES <WMACHINES@aol.com>
Subject: Re: 69 quarters

In a message dated 98-01-04 16:16:10 EST, you write:

<< On Sun, 4 Jan 1998 13:28:52 -0000 "Lloyd W. Culp" <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
 writes:


 >Wow  I agree>>

Looks like Steve has bitten the bullet.  He has now a bad rap.  Thats too bad
since there are over 500 people on this list.  Hhhmmm, now I remember some
bad things written about him on his return policy from the list of past
customers.  Then he is getting all huffy that things arent working out and
says "one more time people" and gives his written policy.

Well thats really too bad,  guess I will continue to buy parts from MIKE
FUSICK
and Year One.

The only real bad thing I see here is that 500+ people tell there friends
and so on and so on and ect....

Sounds like Brothers will be hurting for awhile.  Then again maybe not,
it depends on the other business they drum up from JWO and such
publications.  I have just made sure that everybody in my club
(DETROIT STREET ROCKETS) knows to do business eleswhere.

So thanks for the 275.00 frame mounts (oops)  sarcasm I guess.

not apologizing sheepishly and having some b*lls.

W MACHINES



------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 20:45:08 -0500
From: MROTHE <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Brother's Automotive reply

> Despite the opinions of those list "experts" overly prone to shoot off at the
> mouth,  like MROTHE and RC HELLEBUCK,

Moi?  Only in America......

> this is NOT a customer service issue.  This is a customer expectation 
problem.
<SNIP> If you have a legitimate problem with a product, our
> service, or just us in general,  call us and tell us (preferably before
> installation!),  we will pay for the call.  You'll get it off your chest and
> we will all feel better.   Still reading R.C.?

~I'm~ still reading, even if R.C. isn't.

Take a chill-pill Steve.  I value my right to my opinion, and I respect
yours as well.  A customer expectation problem?  OK, I can spot you
that.  But if you advertise the product as rolling into the trunk and
door jambs, and it did not, by Chris' account, then the product will
never live up to the advertisement listed in the catalog.  What CAN the
customer expect then?  We don't ever have to agree on anything except
our right to disagree.

Answer me this, what makes you qualified to say that I, or anyone else,
am "shooting off at the mouth" for offering anyone on this list my
opinion, advice, or personal experiences about Oldsmobiles, to include
vendors? (I thought that's what it was here for)  I'll "shoot off at the
mouth" anytime I think I can offer advice to anyone.  And I certainly
try to be a little civil about it.  I don't sugar-coat, it isn't my
style, right or wrong.  Someone on this list was unhappy with your
product for WHATEVER reason, and you are correct in stating that you get
what you pay for, especially if you cut up and install the product
anyway.  That's an issue between you and the customer.  But that doesn't
mean that you have to slam anyone here personally on this list for
giving their opinion.  For Christ's sake, we've listened to your
opinions too.  Why should YOU be so special?

But like it or not, when you do business with the public, no matter how
trivial the problem may seem to you, it is VERY real to the customer,
percieved or not.  Unfortunately, dealing with the public is an evil all
vendors must face.  Sure, there are some real dillies to deal with, but
there are a heckuva lot more subtle ways to deal with them.

I gather that you think your an "expert" on customer service.  Maybe,
but it's the guy spending the cash on your products that should be
convinced of that.  I go on my personal experiences with vendors.
Namely, remember the H/O springs I ordered that sorta got "lost" for a
couple of months?  Or the 442 decals that were shipped last Friday,
then  shipped last Thursday? I realize things happen from time to time,
but I've read a lot of other's similar comments about SERVICE they
receive.  It's either good or bad.  When someone's taking my money for a
service or product they are selling, then I have expectations that it be
a reasonable product/service in a reasonable amount of time.  If I'm
told something will be available in two weeks, then I should have to be
wondering where it is three weeks from now.  THAT's expectation to be
avoided.

Take it however way you want.  I'm offering this as constructive
criticism only.  I've called Brother's in the past, and ordered stuff,
and was quite satisfied ONCE I got the parts.  The parts you sell that I
purchased, are of high quality for a reasonable price, but unless you
were the only one in the world selling them, why try and make it seem
like it's always the customer screwing up if they're not satisfied?  It
can only hurt your business, I've never seen where it helped, and if you
truly don't need repeat customers, then why don't you just sell out now
and avoid the ulcers?

Just shootin' off at the mouth.
Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 20:59:59 -0800
From: evans1@net-link.net
Subject: Dear Steve (Was Re:  69 quarters)

Steve, Steve, Steve......have you forgotten how many Oldsmobile nuts are on
this list?

For what it's worth, I can understand the exasperation with someone wanting
to return a part after it's been altered and used.  No argument there.

But this public whipping of Chris, Mike, and RC?  I can't imagine MY
customers wanting to do business with my company if I publicly berated any
of them that disagreed with me.

>A quick analogy:  You buy a TV set at Sears that you intend to build into a
>wall in your family room.  You receive a set either to big or small for your
>needs so you either cut down or build up the case of the TV and install it
>into the wall.  After you have cut the item you purchased and installed it
>into the wall of your home and are using it, do you think Sears is going to
>give you a refund? Or an "adjustment?"

Another quick analogy....the Sears salesperson goes on the largest mailing
list of its kind on the Net and thrashes his own customer.  Do you think he
or his friends are ever going to ever buy anything from them again?  Do you
think any of his friends or acquaintances that he makes for the rest of his
life will?  No.


>
>Despite the opinions of those list "experts" overly prone to shoot off at the
>mouth,  like MROTHE and RC HELLEBUCK,
>this is NOT a customer service issue.  This is a customer expectation
problem.
>Lets be frank:  Reproduction sheet metal generally sucks when compared to
NOS.
>We can't sell any thing better than the best available parts.
>At the risk of sounding arrogant, welcome to automotive restoration.  You
know
>the deal-"if you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"


Well, maybe your letterhead should read "We're no crappier than anyone
else....send us a bunch of money!"  It may not have been a customer service
issue previously, but NOW it is.


On the other hand, I see
>a guy like Hellybuck get red around the ass (sorry ladies)  over a just plain
>silly issue such as this and wonder-what did we ever do to him personally to
>deserve this type of indirect and cowardly animosity?

Hey, Steve......a bunch of us were thinking the same thing about you!


>
>  We are committed, in a big way, to providing the best available Oldsmobile
>items to this market.  We intend to do this for at least another 10 years or
>so.  We don't sell Chevrolet parts.  If we did I would be a retired
>millionaire by now.  I love the old OLDSES and will continue to support and
>build this market.   If you have a legitimate problem with a product, our
>service, or just us in general,  call us and tell us (preferably before
>installation!),  we will pay for the call.  You'll get it off your chest and
>we will all feel better.   Still reading R.C.?
>
>Sincerely For Oldsmobiles,
>Steven Kenny
>Brothers Automotive Products
>America's Leading Supplier of Cutlass/442 parts
>800-442-PART
>WWW.OLDSPARTS.COM

Apologies for the bandwidth, people.  I have zero patience for companies
who demand high prices and, apparently, subservience.

Mike Evans
Richland, MI

P.S.  Sorry if I used any words that were too big for you to understand,
Steve.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 20:58:21 -0500
From: "W-MACHINES" <wmachine@en.com>
Subject: Re: Oh, Brother!

You're right, Mark.  He has the right to do business as he sees fit.  We
have the right *not* to buy from him!
He should be concerned about it.  What an attitude!  Another example of
what's wrong with customer service.  I think he made a big mistake
badmouthing *anybody*.

Kurt    wmachine@en.com
'65 Jetstar 1 4-speed                   '70 Toronado GT W-34 4-sale
'66 442 Sport Coupe 4-speed       '92 Achieva SCX W-41
'66 442 F-85 Deluxe factory L-69  '90 Trofeo

- ----------
> From: W MACHINES <WMACHINES@aol.com>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: 69 quarters
> Date: Sunday, January 04, 1998 8:01 PM
>
> In a message dated 98-01-04 16:16:10 EST, you write:
>
> << On Sun, 4 Jan 1998 13:28:52 -0000 "Lloyd W. Culp" <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
>  writes:
>
>
>  >Wow  I agree>>
>
> Looks like Steve has bitten the bullet.  He has now a bad rap.  Thats too
bad
> since there are over 500 people on this list.  Hhhmmm, now I remember
some
> bad things written about him on his return policy from the list of past
> customers.  Then he is getting all huffy that things arent working out
and
> says "one more time people" and gives his written policy.
>
> Well thats really too bad,  guess I will continue to buy parts from MIKE
> FUSICK
> and Year One.
>
> The only real bad thing I see here is that 500+ people tell there friends
> and so on and so on and ect....
>
> Sounds like Brothers will be hurting for awhile.  Then again maybe not,
> it depends on the other business they drum up from JWO and such
> publications.  I have just made sure that everybody in my club
> (DETROIT STREET ROCKETS) knows to do business eleswhere.
>
> So thanks for the 275.00 frame mounts (oops)  sarcasm I guess.
>
> not apologizing sheepishly and having some b*lls.
>
> W MACHINES
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 18:29:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Jack Karamanos <jalkara@whidbey.net>
Subject: re crossram

in the mid 60's MT and Edelbrock made cross rams for every brand of
american engine in production, olds, rambler, ford FE and whiner, mice and
rats, indians and maybe even bufurds.  depending on the application they
required a small diameter( read that ford body )Mallory or Cragar or
whoever ( not GM ) distributor made for the particular engine.

47rocket98

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 21:37:49 EST
From: W MACHINES <WMACHINES@aol.com>
Subject: MCC airs Olds Nats97

I was looking at the Web page of MCC and still no announcement
of the winner yet.

On that note, on February 21st, MCC online will be airing the Oldsmobile
Centennial Celebration from Lansing MI.

for more details go to  <A HREF="http://www.myclassiccar.com/covermain.html">
My Classic Car Online!</A> then to TV episode.

Just thought I tell all you Oldsmobile Fanatics,enthuisiasts and pure nutts.

W MACHINES (Mark Prince)
1972 442 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 21:53:09 -0500
From: "John Gill" <jgill@idmi.com>
Subject: Re: 69 quarters

I was under the impression that the whole idea of this mailing list was to
provide an open forum for hobbyists to exchange ideas, experiences,
information and generally assist one another in his/her Olds-related
activities.  I'm beginning to wonder if its worth my time to sift through
this endless cascade of negative messages related to the dreaded 1969
quarter panels.

This entire quarter panel "soap opera" is growing tiresome.  I'm ashamed of
myself for even commenting on the topic but the message below crosses the
line of productive commentary and enters the realm of spiteful ignorance.
Some messages have contained comments regarding an individual's rights of
free expression.  Sure, express yourselves but how about CALLING STEVE
DIRECTLY to do this.

Both sides have good points but overall, I side with Steve @ Brothers on
this issue.  One of the basic underlying principles of capitalism is: "Let
the buyer beware".  The buyer made a fateful error when he approved the
cutting work at the body shop.  In doing so, the sale became final.  He
must have been in a hurry to complete the job and it was his prerogative to
proceed with the modification of the panels.  Granted, Steve's initial
response (and subsequent response) was/were somewhat gruff and that just
inflamed the customer (and obviously alot of list members).  I'm sure we
all have empathy for the customer but it is only spilled milk at this
point.  We, as consumers, have the unique power to buy from Brothers - or
not buy from Brothers.  Why not let this issue die as we've heard enough
already.  We'll just file this up to experience and use it to form our own
opinions.

It just so happens, I'm waiting on some parts from Brothers for which my
credit card has already been charged.  I too was told that the parts had
been drop shipped from PA.  Does this mean I'll throw out a bunch of
derogatory and inflammatory comments?  No, it would not be productive.
Steve has said it several times now, CALL HIM DIRECTLY!!  Monday I will
call him.

As for Brothers losing the 500 customers on this list - I doubt it.  I'll
continue to shop for the best quality-for-the-money parts available in the
market place.  I would bet that every other intelligent consumer on this
list will do the same, paying a little more for Year One/Fusick/etc's
automated product tracking systems or just live with it taking a few more
days/weeks to get our parts.

- ----------

>    why don't we just call it what it is: you are commited to selling
> olds parts.....thats how you make your money.....you could care less
> about the quality of the part...AS LONG AS IT GOES OUT THE DOOR....if
> the parts available are junk...so be it...in your eyes....its a
> part...and if you sell half of them...its better than selling none....so
> stop trying to CONVINCE us that you give a shit about the quality of the
> part...we all know what your about...and you've pretty well made that
> obvious....so...go make your money...and try and sugar coat it with
> people who haven't spent thousands on parts from you and people like you
> and have no idea what your about......Hoagie

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 21:53:28 -0500
From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Subject: Re: Anit-Theft on '73-'77 Cutlass??

I know that an alarm system was available as an option on the 75 H/O's. Maybe
these contacts were used in that setup, I am not sure.


>I was just perusing through the Brothers' online catalogue when I came
>across a very interesting statement - for door jamb switches it has a
>listing for with and without "Anti-Theft".  What's that all about??


Jason Labay (z28cfi@gwis.com) Akron, OH
95 DCM Impala SS      80 Olds 442 W-30
85 S-10 Blazer 4x4      75 Hurst/Olds W-25

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 98 22:05:31 -0400
From: Mike Hall <oldsmike@flash.net>
Subject: Web pages...

RC Hellebuyck wrote:
> Let's hear from Olds list members who have their own web page!


OK,

I am a newby at creating WWW pages but here is mine:

http://www.flash.net/~oldsmike


There will be lots more added as time goes on, it is under construction.
It is also geared to you Macintosh users out there...


Michael R. Hall: OCA ª17903                    Ortonville, Michigan
Home E-Mail: oldsmike@flash.net
The Ever-Growing Oldsmobile Stable:
1971 Oldsmobile 442
1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S
1987 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Custom Cruiser
1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 22:17:21 -0500 (EST)
From: The Sugarmans <sugarman@berkshire.net>
Subject: Re: 69 quarters

Having been the other there - trying to make the wrong or bad part fit - I
have to agree that the choice to proceed with the installation moved the
problem from the vendor to the buyer.

I once did some work for a local auto body supply business.  One thing I
learned from them is that the professionals expect some defects with sheet
metal replacement parts, whether reproductions or NOS.

On the other hand, Mr. Kenny didn't respond to the allegation that the
parts were not as specified in the catalog.  Wrong size, gauge, no lips or
bends, whatever.

So we still don't have the whole story.

Don Sugarman

Note:  I don't know Mr. Kenny, and I've never done business with Brothers
Automotive.  I *am* interested in knowing the whole story, should I
consider doing usiness with Brothers.


sugarman@berkshire.net

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 22:16:15 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: **VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION**

>What would the cylinder heads torque specs be for putting 1972 350 heads
>on a 1979 403 block?  The head gaskets are 403.  Please reply privately

You'd go with the torque for the bolts (here, 1/2" bolts), which is 130
ft/lbs (with oil on the threads and under the head of the bolt). Needless to
say, you sneak up on this final torque reading gradually, in 20 ft/lb
increments or so.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 22:16:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: My '78 Olds Cutlass (Long)

>>Were are you getting this W19 information from?  Who or what has told
>>you about W19?  My '78 sales manuals make no mention of W19, but that
>>doens't mean it didn't exist.
>
>It has W-19 ornamentation all over the place.  There's one one the dash
>above the radio, one on the trunk (I think), one behind the rear window (by
>where it says Cutlass Supreme).  I suppose that it could have been
>aftermarket decoration to trick someone into paying more.  I guess that
>would make sense, actually, because not only have I never seen a W-19
>before, it had a small engine, etc.  Hmm.  Makes you wonder...

Are these die-cast emblems, or decals? Either way, it sounds like either a
dealer or regional promotional "package", which in all likelihood has no
aspirations for performance. Kind of like the "SKO" Cutlasses and such that
have been discussed on this list before. Maybe that would be a good new area
for the FAQ: "Regional and dealer promotional option packages"?
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 22:16:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Non-performance W-options

OK, since I first mentioned it, I thought I'd toss in what I saw as an "odd"
W-option.

1968:   W36= Rallye Paint Stripe
        W37= Deluxe Interior Decor

1969:   W39= Deluxe Seat Belts
        W42= Hood Special Painting

and one final one, though it might have some justification as a performance
option:

1972:   W39= 3-speed MT Hurst shifter

I guess the point of this last one was to get the shifter off the column for
the standard-equipment 3-speed manual transmission, but seeing as how this
transmission was only available on the 350-equipped cars that year, I'd say
it's a bit of a stretch to call it a "performance" W-option.

I can see where there might be an argument in favor of calling the stripe
packages a "Performance" option; after all, if you exclude decal or stripe
packages, then the W-45 Rallye 350 option gets called into question as well.
It's those interior packages that really struck me as odd to classify as
"W-options", especially at the height of this kind of marketing.

Oh, and I'd definitely call the '79-'80 W-30 Cutlasses "performance"
options, as it was the only way to get the highest horsepower Olds engine in
the Cutlass those years.

Are there any '73 and up W-options that would be questionable?
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 22:16:23 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Latest progress report on the SX

It often gets warm here in the Northeast during January; the daytime
temperatures hovered around 60' this weekend (needless to say, the rain that
started this afternoon is predicted to turn to freezing rain later on;
sigh...). Perfect opportunity to get some work done on the SX.

I got my rear cover gasket for the 12-bolt from Fusick's last Monday, so
changing the fluid there was first on the to-do list. Actually, I balked at
the first gasket they produced over there at Fusick's; the bottom of the
gasket was scalloped like the stock one is at the top. The guy swore it was
an NOS gasket (it was also a Monday morning after a 4-day weekend, so nobody
was in the mood for dickering), but it didn't look like the outline given in
the shop manual. I had him open up one of his W-27 rear covers, and sure
enough, it contained a gasket that matched the outline in the shop manual,
though the bolt holes in both were identical. He said that if it would make
me happy, I could have the one from that box (which did in fact make me
happy). I just wasn't sure that the scallops on the bottom would seal
properly with the factory cover and housing.

Well, when I took off the cover and cleaned up the gasket surface, it
appeared that the NOS gasket that Fusick's was selling would in fact have
worked. So, if you order a W-27 rear cover from Fusick's (nice piece, btw; I
almost bought it myself...), don't be alarmed if you get a gasket with
scallops on the bottom; it should work just fine.

Anyway, I was glad I changed that 27-year old fluid; it only took about a
half-hour, and the fluid that came out was foamy on top (like from
moisture), and this foam didn't dissipate the whole time I was working on
the car. I've now made a note to myself to make changing the differential
fluid one of the first tasks on any old car I buy.

While I had the car up on jacks, I "mitaswell'd" myself into changing the
rear shocks and coil springs. This was the first opportunity I've ever had
to change the rear springs, and I found it to be easier than changing the
shocks. Once you unbolt the bottom shock mount, the only thing you have to
worry about is pinching the metal brake line that is right there. I also
found that I had to pry the spring a bit, as the rear axle didn't want to
hang down enough for the spring simply to fall out. I suppose removing both
lower shock mounts would allow the rear to drop lower; next time I'll go
that route.

The new springs, though lower in static height, were stiffer and brand new,
which resulted in a higher installed height. Now the rear looks like it
rides where it should (rather than sagging), though it's not jacked up at all.

Now I'm ready for some highway driving, just as soon as I can figure out how
to keep my right-side dust cap from popping off the front spindle... :(
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 22:39:37 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: wtd: 71/2 bumpers

I might've left this out of the last notice.
He wants rear stabilizer bar, too.

Contact him at his email address or phone.


Forwarded message:
> From loris@tir.com Sun Jan  4 16:18:37 1998
> Subject: Bumpers wanted
>
> I found your address on the Bryceman's Olds page.  Do you have PERFECT
> (or, at least rechromable without deep pits or rust) front and rear
> bumpers for a 1972 Cutlass convertible that you would gladly take my
> money for?
> Thnks,
> -Loris Scarnecchia
> Macomb, MI
> (810) 228-7829

- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
         >>> Please snip the excess lines from posts <<<

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 22:51:20 EST
From: JCutlass <JCutlass@aol.com>
Subject: Re: 69 quarters/ Brothers

I''m troubled with the quarter panel problems discussed here as late. It
sounds as Brothers has not handled this in a business like manner, however my
only experience with Brothers has been favorable. I ordered a new convertible
top for my son's '68 Cutlass S and received it in about a week, and found it
to be the correct order and of good heavy quality material. They were helpful
and straight up with me. My only problem was trying to put the son of gun on
myself. I wrestled that sucka all over the garage for a week before I decided
I better have a pro put it on in lieu of set ripping to shreads and setting it
ablaze out of frustration. Anybody ever try a conv. top please share your
secrets.

Tim in Oklahoma
'68 Cutlass S ''vertible

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Jan 98 22:35:36 -0500
From: "padavano.joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Re: re crossram

in the mid 60's MT and Edelbrock made cross rams for every brand of
american engine in production, olds, rambler, ford FE and whiner, mice and
rats, indians and maybe even bufurds.  depending on the application they
required a small diameter( read that ford body )Mallory or Cragar or
whoever ( not GM ) distributor made for the particular engine.

47rocket98

     Well, I used to have an old Edelbrock _inline_ dual quad manifold for
     a big block Olds, which was configured for two old-style square-bore
     Carter AFBs (or, alternately, the old Rochester 4GC), but I've never
     seen an aftermarket _cross ram_ for an Olds.  In addition, every
     Edelbrock manifold I've ever seen has "Edelbrock" cast into it
     (similarly "M/T" for every Mickey Thompson intake).

     As I noted, the cross ram intake I've got has no identification other
     than the "ER-13112" designation and looks suspiciously like the one
     pictured in Hot Rod.  Your suggestion on the Mallory distributor is a
     good one.  I have a Mallory Unilite unit which is smaller in diameter
     than the Delco points distributor, but I haven't tried it with my
     cross ram.  Maybe it will fit.

     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 23:08:15 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: 350 Nodular crank

I extracted the nodular crank from the latest '68 350 motor. Looks like std
size bearings, could probably use a grind. It's currently taking up valuable
floor space in the garage. I think it oughta be worth $100. I'm inclined to
sell. $80 delivered, $50 you pick up. In a week, I'll entertain even lower
offers. A real nice crank for a 350 engine buildup.

Oh, I measured the piston dish of that 2V motor also, by measurements it calcs
out to 20.1cc. I shall cc it later with the plate & syringe method, see if that
agrees- there is some approximation in measuring a dish with a round bottom-
to- side transition... Measured 2.50" dia. x 0.25" deep.

- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
         >>> Please snip the excess lines from posts <<<

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 19:25:16 -0800
From: mrada <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Subject: Re: Brothers controversy

Steve,

> One last time people!

Get off your soapbox and get down to reality.

> YOUR SATISFACTION IS GUARANTEED!
> THESE PANELS ARE RETURNABLE!

Yes, however I have to pay to ship it $80 one way.

> THESE ARE THE ONLY GM Licensed AND APPROVED REPRODUCTION QUARTERS
> AVAILABLE!

Get real!  The guage of the metal was not the same as the original.
The measurements specified in your catalog does not even match up.

> With an engineer and a body man with 35 years experience handling the
> job, you think a decision would have been made BEFORE THE INSTALLATION
> WAS DONE,  WHEN THE PRODUCT COULD STILL BE RETURNED!   THIS:

Why would anybody in their right mind spend $80 to ship a defective part
to me, spend $80 to return it back, and spend another $80 to replace the
defective part originally sent?  That is $240 which exceeds the value
of the panel!

> STRIKES ME LIKE EXTORTION!

Since it is obvious that you lack adequate education and manners,
extortion would be like Autumn Jackson trying to get Bill Cosby to pay
her sums of money for no valid reason.  I cannot be extorting you if I
paid for the part originally!  I felt that some sort of credit should
have been considered as a good will gesture from Brothers' given the
history of problems I have had with Brothers.

I remember when I first ordered the part in July of last year and did
not receive it in a timely manner.  Mike told me that you had several
defective rear quarter panels and you were waiting for a fresh shipment
before sending mine.  I thought that perhaps you accidently sent me a
defective part.  I at the time gave you the benefit of the doubt since
you have been in business for 20 years.

Your actions, rudeness, and profane comments to a fellow person on the
list shows your apparent disdain for your customers.  I also own a
business and have never felt the need to berate my customers.
Sometimes I make a little profit or no profit in order to gain good will
and customer satisfaction.  When my merchandise is faulty, I do not
charge as if it was a perfect part at full price.  It is just not
ethical.

I think instead of stating your policies you need to rewrite your
catalog.  Something like this: "Rear quarter panels can vary in size.
You get what you receive.  Tweaking and heavy bondo a must!"  Then a
customer has no recourse when they are disappointed when the panel
is not as specified in the catalog.

> A quick analogy:  You buy a TV set at Sears that you intend to build
> into a wall in your family room.  You receive a set either to big or
> small for your needs so you either cut down or build up the case of
> the TV and install it into the wall.  After you have cut the item you
> purchased and installed it into the wall of your home and are using
> it, do you think Sears is going to give you a refund? Or an
> "adjustment?"

As far as Sears is concerned, I have seen them take back items I would
never dream of taking back.  Their actions, however, create such a good
will with people that they have a thriving nationwide business.  I'll
give you an example of such good will:  Their Craftsman tools are
guaranteed against breakage.  If a wrench falls apart, you get another
free of charge!  How is that?

> Reproduction sheet metal generally sucks when compared to NOS.  We

I am glad that you agree that what I received sucked!  If you have
better parts then why did not you offer them to me.  As stated before I
only bought what I thought was available and was told that these parts
were of the highest quality and were excellent replacement parts.  I
tend to try to believe there are honest and reliable people in this
world to buy parts from.

> In closing, I AM NOT ASHAMED!  I'm really quite proud.  Brothers
> Automotive Products has just ended another record year of sales, up
> 19.5% over last year, and this in a shrinking market.  We are so busy
> we have not done any restorations to speak of in almost two years.
> With literally thousands of happy customers, we must be doing some
> things right.  On the other hand, I see a guy like Hellybuck get red
> around the ass (sorry ladies)  over a just plain silly issue such as
> this and wonder-what did we ever do to him personally to deserve this
> type of indirect and cowardly animosity?

Your sales may have been up 19.5%, however, how much more could they
have been had you addressed some of the complaints that you have
received.  If you have nothing better to do than to call us whiners
and use profane language to make your point then I would suggest
getting on to another list that would provide you with the support that
you apparently need.

In closing I would suggest that you let this matter drop since an
opinion has been formed about you and Brothers.  There is no need now
to belabor the issue.  I should have known better than to expect you to
do any good will gestures.  When we spoke last you were going to refund
me for shipping the wrong weatherstrips back to you which I never got.
Mike also said that he would send me front grille brackets for the
442 emblem which I have not seen.  I guess this is what you mean by
"Just one assurance of our customer's satisfaction."


Chris Sparks

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 23:05:06 EST
From: Oldsparts <Oldsparts@aol.com>
Subject: Re:  69 quarters-another professionals  perspective

Thanks!

>>Mr. Steven Kenny,
WELL SAID! That was certainly one of the most well stated customer service
response and statement I've heard in a long time, if not ever. You
certainly sound committed to your customers satisfaction and the auto parts
business as a fair and upstanding place to work and deal with. I also am in
this business, as a Parts Manager in an import dealer, and have come across
many of the same attitudes taken by a customer due to their own mistakes.
There is no more that you can do than what you have stated. I am proud to
be part of an industry with business people such as yourself and others who
hold their customers and product in proper relation to customer
satisfaction. WELL DONE!<<

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 23:13:04 EST
From: Oldsnut <Oldsnut@aol.com>
Subject: Re: How do I remove Glovebox lock?

In order to remove the cylinder you must have the key inserted into the lock.
You must then depress a spring loaded tab ( use a small screwdriver) located
in the slot on the side of the cylinder.  The cylinder will then slide out
from the front.

In a message dated 98-01-03 19:51:52 EST, you write:

<< I have a 1971 glovebox door and can't get the lock out of it. How do I do
it?
 Does it twist off?
  >>

Paul Pate
Mechanical Design Engineer
Port Neches, Texas
70 Cutlass S (350-4V, TH-350, 12-bolt 3.08)
84 Camaro (305-4V, TH-700, 10-bolt 3.08)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 23:08:07 EST
From: COUPE KING <COUPEKING@aol.com>
Subject: Quarters, Brothers,Vendors, Old Cars...

This whole 'Beat up on Brothers' thing is getting tedious and
counterproductive.

True, Steve Kenney must have been taking lessons from the'Mike Ditka School of
Charm and Public Relations', but for we old-car guys it's great having folks
doing what he's doing. And the more the merrier.

When I need a part for one of my Olds', I just pick up one of myriad catalogs
and look. Year One, Fusick, Brothers, Olds USA, Parts place, Tamraz,
Paddock,... I've learned that YO has the best service and the highest prices.
I've found Steve at Brothers to be a truly congenial guy on the phone and an
enthusiast as we all are, but that he'll tend to sell parts that he may not
have. His prices are good, maybe the best, overall, and if he's got something
IN STOCK, I'd not be afraid to order it. Fusicks makes much of the repro
grilles, etc..sold by everybody else, so I shop there for this stuff. His sale
prices are best for these bits.

The more vendors, the better the shopping. The better the competition, the
better the service and price. Be grateful parts are this plentiful. Be
grateful for Steve Kenney amd Mike Fusick and YO etc...because these guys make
it possible for us to keep our 30+ year old beasts going. GM sure isn't.

As for the quarters, I've installed them on my '69 and I'm happy. It is not
easy to make me happy when it comes to bodywork. My body men aren't
Michaelangelos  and we did scratch our heads a bit figuring out the best way
to make the repro parts work, but work they did. Anybody in SoCal come by and
I'll show you. GM didn't make that part, they just took their licensing fee.
Thank God it was available! And it was only $180 for Chrissake?!

This list is a wonderful tool and I enjoy it immensely. I feel I know a lot of
people on it well even though we've-mostly-never spoken. But there is also a
bit of a pack mentality sometimes. Stop this 'piling on' of Brothers. Believe
me, it serves us not.

Imagine needing a part and having nobody--or only one supplier perhaps--to
call.

Off the soapbox
Peter
CoupeKing

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 98 23:13:30 EST
From: Glenn Connors <gpc442@buffnet.net>
Subject: Rear Side Markers

 Does anyone know if the side-markers on the quarter panels are the same for
both the '68 and '69 4-4-2's.

 Glenn
'69 4-4-2

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 23:22:14 -0500
From: Jerry Christopher <IThEFunKI@ViperLink.Net>
Subject: Re: Latest progress report on the SX

Robert Barry wrote:

> Anyway, I was glad I changed that 27-year old fluid; it only took about a
> half-hour, and the fluid that came out was foamy on top (like from
> moisture), and this foam didn't dissipate the whole time I was working on
> the car. I've now made a note to myself to make changing the differential
> fluid one of the first tasks on any old car I buy.

Unless you've done this before...  You've now found out something that
smells worse than fresh baby after it's had prunes...  hahaha.
- --
- - Jerry Christopher
- - HTTP://WWW2.Viperlink.Net/Members/IThEFunKI
- - 1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 23:13:52 -0500 (EST)
From: The Viking <avar@infinet.com>
Subject: Re: Hotchkis Rear Suspension Parts ?

On Sun, 4 Jan 1998, Rich Inacker wrote:

> Has anyone out there in Olds-land had any experience with installation and
> general utility of the Hotchkis tubular rear suspension components ? They
> are offered as separate parts (upper trailing arms, lower trailing arms and
> braces) or as a kit for 64-72 A bodies. I'm playing with the idea of
> installing them on my 66 F-85 to stabilize the rear end a bit


I have a complete set up of Hotchkis rear parts and they are
outstanding.. In fact due to the customary GM tolereances one of the
support braces would not fit and Hothkis did a custom fit for me at no
charge...

Al Varhus Columbus, Ohio http://www.infinet.com/~avar



------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 23:17:12 EST
From: Mr ExMt <MrExMt@aol.com>
Subject: Re: I need stuff

1-4
HI,
I HAVE A FRONT SWAY BAR FRON A '68 CUTLASS & A USED THROTTLE
CABLE FROM A '68 ALSO. IF YOUR INTERESTED LMK & BOTH ARE IN EXCELLENT
CONDITION.
HOPE TO HELP!
LEIGH
Mr ExMt@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 98 23:20:49 EST
From: Glenn Connors <gpc442@buffnet.net>
Subject: Re: 350 Nodular crank

>Oh, I measured the piston dish of that 2V motor also, by measurements it calcs
>out to 20.1cc. I shall cc it later with the plate & syringe method,

  What is the plate part of the cc. measurement.  I've cc'd pistons before
using a syringe but had to guesstimate visually because of surface tention
characteristics of the water.

  Glenn
  '69 4-4-2

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 23:23:28 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: x-ram Toro motor?

> >      Another member of my car club says that he has a cross ram manifold
> > with 2 four barrel carbs that came out of a 67 Toronado. He pulled the
> > engine out of the olds and ran it in a chevy for a while, then pulled it
out
> > and stored it. Is this a 'for real' combination? The guy claims it is a
> > factory setup, but a book I have on Toronadoes doesn't list it. He has it
> > stored, but is going to check his records to find out if he has written
down
> > any of the numbers off it. If the engine is ok, what is is worth setup like
> > this?
========================
Just when I was gonna call this a Chevy motor or some other such nonsense... I
recall a motor like that at the Olds Museum. twin cooling fans, etc. Not quite
sure what the carburetion was, but it could happen.

Is there any way that this writer could step fwd and identify him/herself so we
can investigate this, get it down from the Urban Legend Classic "my friend's
clubmate's dog's uncle's sister's cousin's friend has..." to an actual name of
owner?

First off: check the block and head ID's to make sure it is an Olds motor.

Value? If it exists, priceless. Last fairly common shaped AL factory
experimental intake I saw said $1000 on it. Then again it was not selling
either. I'd pay hundreds or trade lots of motor parts and work for such an
item.

And I'm notoriously... frugal. Yeah, that's the word.
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
         >>> Please snip the excess lines from posts <<<

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 23:26:00 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: olds-specific mags

From: "Samuel E. Johnson, Jr" <cutlass403@ameritech.net>
Subject: Just Olds
We have Carcraft, Hotrod and Popular Hotrodding, Do we have any
MAGAZINES dedicated to just Oldsmobiles? I am tired of reading about
Chevy, Chevy, Chevy all the time! I want to read about Olds!
Sam Johnson
===================

Correction: we have ChevyCraft, ChevyRod, and Popular Chevy/Fordrodding.

Your best bet along these lines is/ are the newsletter(s) of the Olds Club of
America [Journey With Olds] and/or the sub-chapters such as the Performance
chapter, H/O chapter, etc. Monthly, small, and ALL-Olds.

- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
         >>> Please snip the excess lines from posts <<<

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 23:51:34 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: 403 heads tork

What would the cylinder heads torque specs be for putting 1972 350 heads
on a 1979 403 block?  The head gaskets are 403.  Please reply privately
and asap!

Ray dealing with "El Nino" in the Sonoran Desert Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass

- ------------------------------
Can't reply privately from digest. Not easily.

SInce you're using the 403's 1/2 head bolts, you better torque to the 403's
spec: 120 ªft, right? Or is it 130?

Not 80, anyhow.

- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
         >>> Please snip the excess lines from posts <<<

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 00:33:43 -0500
From: Jerry Christopher <IThEFunKI@ViperLink.Net>
Subject: Web Sites.

Mine's FIANLLY got the Cutlass Pics on it...  <G>  87 That is.
- --
- - Jerry Christopher
- - HTTP://WWW2.Viperlink.Net/Members/IThEFunKI
- - 1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
- - Here we go Steelers!!!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 00:04:41 -0600
From: "Samuel E. Johnson, Jr" <cutlass403@ameritech.net>
Subject: Header for a 455

I have a 1971 Cutlass S with a 350 olds in it. I want to but a 455 Olds
in now, since the Olds 403 want give me the torque that I want. Is it
hard putting header on that motor (Old 455) with it in a Cutlass S. I'm
not going to have a difficult time putting the headers on the motor am
I?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 03:48:01 EST
From: RCKTPWR <RCKTPWR@aol.com>
Subject: Re: 1985 Oldsmobile 442....SS?

Would a Monte SS spoiler fit my 86 Salon?? Rear spoiler.....
Bernie

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Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 06:36:11 -0500
From: Mark Cornea <mcornea@ford.com>
Subject: (no subject)

subscribe oldsmobile

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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 07:12:54 -0600
From: Thomas Martin <Thomas_Martin@css.mot.com>
Subject: Re: Mileage from a 455

Honestly, in 1976 Olds (EPA??) rated the 455 to get 12 city and 18
highway, and the 350 at 13 and 17, if you build it to those specs and
maybe improve things that build LOW end torque, you should be able to do
it easily.  I am sure this is also with reasonable driving style.  The
most common gearing in 76 was 2.73 for the big cars, and that was
coupled to a FR78 tire, so that is about a 225-75-15 to a 236-75-15.  OD
should help, but make sure your cam makes its power where the engine
will live, like 1200-1600 rpm.  So advancing the cam would be an
Excellent idea.

Remember, check odd things like the EGR valve, if it is a positive or
negative backpressure type, and you improve the exhaust, it will open at
the wrong time.  Use the specs on the engine originally, and use that as
a baseline, and go from there.  I have always heard, emissions is easy,
good fuel economy is easy, getting both is hard.

Have fun!!

Thomas Martin
85 Cutlass Supreme Rocket 350 CCC
- --getting 16-17 city, and 18-19 highway with 2.14 gears and the
computer.... (I know, should be better!!)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 06:56:38 -0800
From: "Mike Aldana" <maldana@digitalwave.net>
Subject: 1966 Cutlass

Parting out 2 dr. htp. Rust free parts, bucket seats, complete car.  Mike
maldana@digitalwave.net

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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 ª1041
*********************************
