To:	oldsmobile-digest@chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #1043


oldsmobile-digest      Tuesday, January 6 1998      Volume 01 : Number 1043



Re: December/January JWOs
rear side markers, 68-9
clampes de la hose
Need help on dash gauge removal
Re: re:Non-performance W-options
engine ID
Re: cc'ing with plate
68 engine id/ hp
Re: 69 quarters
Customer Service, Brothers
Re: December/January JWOs
handren's 445 motor
Re: Need help on dash gauge removal
Re: Header for a 455
Re: Need help on dash gauge removal
DeNovi's parts
Re: was Mondello, now Miller
Re: Hosed
Re: Need help on dash gauge removal
Winnners!
Re: Need help on dash gauge removal
Re: brothers
Laura's motor
Converting points to HEI?
Re: fuel guage cluster
231=> V8
Re: Rear Side Markers
Re: A final word on Brother's service
87 cutlass, odd problem... and 4-4-2 progress
Wagon for Sale
Re: engines
Re: engines
Re:  Not Mad At Anyone
Re: fuel guage cluster
Re: Clarification on L34 and L35 engines
Re: 1965 Oldsmobile Cutlass
'72 Bumper
Re: brothers
Re: Non-performance W-options
Re: Hosed
Re: 1970 W-32? (and other Q's too)
RE: Latest progress report on the SX
Re: Clarification on L34 and L35 engines
re:Non-performance W-options
Re: Rear Side Markers
Re: Engine replacement
Re: Hosed
TEST.....DO NOT READ

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 21:33:25 -0500
From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@nbn.net>
Subject: Re: December/January JWOs

Greg Beaulieu wrote:

> January's issue came the very next day. Got to see a pic of the back of
> Paul Hartlieb's head in one of the pics... ;-)

My best side...

Paul

sig. file temporarily unavailable, upgrading comuter systems!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 22:03:18 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: rear side markers, 68-9

Subject: Rear Side Markers
 Does anyone know if the side-markers on the quarter panels are the same for
both the '68 and '69 4-4-2's.
 Glenn
====================
Yes,  someone knows. Next question?

;-)


Yep, the same units.
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
         >>> Please snip the excess lines from posts <<<

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 22:09:16 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: clampes de la hose

I have always refused to order the "original" clamps from the catalogs as I
thought they were over priced and I thought the gear clamps were better.
This is making me wonder if the gear clamps have a problem with loosening
off.  Does anyone have any experience / insight into this?  Are some gear
clamps better than others?
==================
I have saved all original clamps I can find for years, the repros are
expensive! At the garage I worked at, they would, as a matter of course, toss
any used clamp and install a new worm gear clamp. I did not do it. Vinnie
almost threatened me, as he imagined himself my supervisor. I insisted. I never
had one come back leaky. He did.

Not only are flat band clamps more subject to loosening from thermal cycling,
but if you overtighten them, the sharp edge is more prone to cutting into the
hose. Plus, they just don't look right on our motors. T'each his own I suppose,
but I use the twin-wire ones whenever possible.
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
         >>> Please snip the excess lines from posts <<<

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 22:10:18 EST
From: JCutlass <JCutlass@aol.com>
Subject: Need help on dash gauge removal

Requesting assistance on removing the fuel gauge cluster from the dash of a
'68 Cutlass "S", (convertible).
Dilbert the mechanic has broken off half the pins on the gang connector. He
made a feeble attempt to solder them on, put failed to hold. I am trying to
remove the entire assembly from the dash to have it reworked, but at a loss to
see what screws are holding it in. Assuming it comes out the front? Got no
skinny arms or short nut drivers. Please advise o' wise oldsmobilers!

Thanks
Tim in Oklahoma
'68 Cutlass "S"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 22:14:55 -0500
From: "M&D Gillespie" <mgillespie@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: re:Non-performance W-options

- -----Original Message-----
From: deirdre. reilly <102724.635@compuserve.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Monday, January 05, 1998 10:03 PM
Subject: re:Non-performance W-options


>
>Well I finaly got curious and decided to look in my chassis service
manual
>as it lists all the RPO codes available for '85.
>snip<
Here's a couple more from '69:
W39 - Dix. seat Belt Option
W42 - Hood -special painting

Mick Gillespie
69 Cutlass S convertible
OCAª 29770
mgillespie@sprynet.com
http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/mgillespie/oldspage.htm

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 22:33:35 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: engine ID

Mike Krumwiede writes:
>If you are not sure of the size of the engine, one easy trick that
>used to be one older olds, don't know if it still applies with the
>newer ones, they would stamp the Engine Size behind the oil pour in,
>get a mirror, clean behind the filler, and look behind there, it
>should say 260, 350, or whatever it is. Hope it helps.

That's what one of my books said, but I think that when they swapped the
engine, they put a different filler on. Bob
==================
Whoa, let's get this right.

For sure ID of the block [not necessarily the CID, as per the 425/455
possibilities...], one must use something such as the block casting number 
which
is on the horizontal shelf to the left of the oil fill tube, to the right of
the oil pressure sender, just behind the timing cover, and just fore of the
intake. Under all that goo is the block's casting number.
   The later engines along the years of the 307 might have the displacement cst
in there, e.g.,  "5.0L" for the 307.
  Also, on the RH side of the block near the freeze plugs is often another
larger cast ID: 455 blocks have the "F" repeated there, 425's have their "D",
and the later generation ['77-on?] might even have the CID cast there, like
"350" or the Die&Sells' "350 DX". Note that the 260 blocks sometimed have the
last 3 digits of the casting number, "355", which is rather misleading.

    These ID's are not "stamped" in as by striking a stamp with a hammer and
making a concave impression; it consists of raised figures cast integrally with
the block. Note the distinction, please.

That will peg the type of block, and usually the CID and, within a range, the
year of issue. 'Course, the head casting ID, at its lower left corner, will do
much the same, and quicker, *if* the heads are original-type to the motor. Not
that any of *us* would stick 350 heads on a 403 or anything... ;-)

If for some reason you care EXACTLY what year the motor was sold as... two
clues, on '68-up units [earlier units clues on heads... long story... see FAQ],
are: 1) the 7 or so digit Engine Unit number on the oil fill tube- 1st digit is
last digit of year of issue. 2) VIN derivitive stamping on the left side of the
block, at the front, just under the head surface, on a machined vertical
surface. It'll be like:

  30M654321   Where...

3= Olds division
0= last digit of year of issue. 0- 1970 or maybe 1980
M= production plant code of car. M typically Lansing, MI, Z Fremont, CA, etc.
654321= original car's sequential production number.

These two numbers ARE "stamped" in.

In MI, these numbers are generally rusted away beyond reading. Oil fill tube
can be changed easily. Consequently, it's hard to be real definite in these
matters.

Note please that in specifying LH vs. RH in car parts, it's generally not "as
you happen to be standing" but rather "as viewed from the driver's seat" that
determines left from right. I tend to disregard this axiom when describing the
heads' ID location, because it works best that way. You hardly ever view the
passenger side head from the driver's side of the car... Shoot, even that Pass/
driver thing won't work for l/r 'cause we have countries where the driver's
side is the RH side!
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
         >>> Please snip the excess lines from posts <<<

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 98 22:34:35 EST
From: Glenn Connors <gpc442@buffnet.net>
Subject: Re: cc'ing with plate

At 10:01 PM 1/5/98 -0500, you wrote:
>From: Glenn Connors <gpc442@buffnet.net>
>>Oh, I measured the piston dish of that 2V motor also, by measurements it 
calcs
>>out to 20.1cc. I shall cc it later with the plate & syringe method,
>
>  What is the plate part of the cc. measurement.  I've cc'd pistons before
>using a syringe but had to guesstimate visually because of surface tention
>characteristics of the water.
>====================
>That is why you cnnot get accurate numbers like that. Can be off by several cc
>easy. I got a piece of 1/4" clear plastic, about 4" round, drilled a hole 
about
>1/2" from the side. I smear grease around the periphery of the cavern to be
>measured, to effect a seal, and press the plate onto the surface well. With 
the
>hole right next to an edge of the hole. Put in the water with a reasonable
>syringe or burette it you have one... I find a 60cc syringe is great. Tip the
>part slightly so the hole is uppermost, and air bubble leaves there last.
>Voila', your concave space is measured.
>--

   Ahh, I figured there was something to this plate. Very excellent!!  I
like it.  Was always wary of the open measurement. I even eyeballed it once
and did the math for the surface tension curvature...still came pretty close
though.

   Thanks,
   Glenn
   '69 4-4-2

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 22:39:39 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: 68 engine id/ hp

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 16:35:12 EST
From: MINNGG <MINNGG@aol.com>
Subject: MOTOR

I HAVE A 1968 OR 69 UNSURE WHAT YEAR AT THIS POINT , would appreciate any
information about this motor it is a 455 and would really like to know what
the factory horsepower is ? thank you please send e-mail to MINNGG@AOL.COM
THANK'S AGAIN
==================
Check the head & block ID's. C heads, and should be a "396021 F" block.
Those basically came in two flavors... 2V low compression of about [memory
fails] oh, guessing, 300 HP rated, and the 4V high comp'n at about 350 HP. Now,
if you just lucked out and got a Toro or H/O motor, there's a few more ponies
lurking in there, not all of which were advertised. But that's very unlikely.

Then again, my tri-carb intake setup came in the trunk of a car I bought
because I stopped in to offer to sell him some parts. Strange things do happen.
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
         >>> Please snip the excess lines from posts <<<

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Jan 98 20:49:23 PST
From: "chris smetana" <chris@abcs.com>
Subject: Re: 69 quarters

John Gill, finally a voice of reason.
I'm not taking sides, as I see points on both sides.

But there is one thing I am curious about, as my 69 W-31 needs rear quarters,
but I have a 4-4-2 parts car for the quarters :-) And I do not mean to
flame/insult or pour gas on the fire, but it says in the Brothers catalog 
(ª973,
the one I picked up in Lansing) that "We use these panels ourselves with great
results."  (I will refrain from quoting the whole section) So, Steve, the
million dollar question is......What have you had to do to these quarters?
inquiring minds want to know,  Or at least I do, Thanks. - ---------- > I was
under the impression that the whole idea of this mailing list was to > provide
an open forum for hobbyists to exchange ideas, experiences, > information and
generally assist one another in his/her Olds-related > activities.  I'm
beginning to wonder if its worth my time to sift through > this endless cascade
of negative messages related to the dreaded 1969 > quarter panels. - -->agreed 
> >
This entire quarter panel "soap opera" is growing tiresome.  I'm ashamed of >
free expression.  Sure, express yourselves but how about CALLING STEVE >
DIRECTLY to do this. - -->YES!!! > > Both sides have good points - -->snip of
good points > > As for Brothers losing the 500 customers on this list - I doubt
it.  I'll - -->I second the motion

Chris Smetana
Terre Haute, IN
chris@abcs.com

1969 Cutlass W-31
1969 4-4-2 parts car - with parts of it for sale
plus others

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 22:46:36 -0500
From: Wayne Schwartz <wschwart@iaw.on.ca>
Subject: Customer Service, Brothers

It's been interesting reading the comments from both customers and
Brothers concerning CUSTOMER SERVICE.  I am employed by a major
international firm who has made a significant investment in providing
Customer Satisfaction Training to ALL employees....including production
line employees.  The thrust of this training is to develop customer
loyality and repeat business though quality products, customer service
and by addressing our customers perception of value.  If I or anyone
else in our firm carried on a public E mail debated such as this we
would be FIRED.  BROTHER you may be somewhat right in your arguements
but there is likely alot of truth in your customers perceptions.  You
need to LISTEN, suck up the comments, do a self-examination and get some
expert help in customer service.....while you still have a business
left.  I find your debate to be quite unprofessional.  You temper is
showing and you are digging yourself a real hole.  I've never done
business with your firm (and have no personal complaints)but I have with
other firms including Year One. I was really impressed with their
service.....maybe you should BENCHMARK them and emulate their service.

Just trying to help.  I hope Brothers can accept more criticism.

Wayne Schwartz

W-MACHINES wrote:
>
> You're right, Mark.  He has the right to do business as he sees fit.  We
> have the right *not* to buy from him!
> He should be concerned about it.  What an attitude!  Another example of
> what's wrong with customer service.  I think he made a big mistake
> badmouthing *anybody*.
>
> Kurt    wmachine@en.com
> '65 Jetstar 1 4-speed                   '70 Toronado GT W-34 4-sale
> '66 442 Sport Coupe 4-speed       '92 Achieva SCX W-41
> '66 442 F-85 Deluxe factory L-69  '90 Trofeo
>
> ----------
> > From: W MACHINES <WMACHINES@aol.com>
> > To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> > Subject: Re: 69 quarters
> > Date: Sunday, January 04, 1998 8:01 PM
> >
> > In a message dated 98-01-04 16:16:10 EST, you write:
> >
> > << On Sun, 4 Jan 1998 13:28:52 -0000 "Lloyd W. Culp" <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
> >  writes:
> >
> >
> >  >Wow  I agree>>
> >
> > Looks like Steve has bitten the bullet.  He has now a bad rap.  Thats too
> bad
> > since there are over 500 people on this list.  Hhhmmm, now I remember
> some
> > bad things written about him on his return policy from the list of past
> > customers.  Then he is getting all huffy that things arent working out
> and
> > says "one more time people" and gives his written policy.
> >
> > Well thats really too bad,  guess I will continue to buy parts from MIKE
> > FUSICK
> > and Year One.
> >
> > The only real bad thing I see here is that 500+ people tell there friends
> > and so on and so on and ect....
> >
> > Sounds like Brothers will be hurting for awhile.  Then again maybe not,
> > it depends on the other business they drum up from JWO and such
> > publications.  I have just made sure that everybody in my club
> > (DETROIT STREET ROCKETS) knows to do business eleswhere.
> >
> > So thanks for the 275.00 frame mounts (oops)  sarcasm I guess.
> >
> > not apologizing sheepishly and having some b*lls.
> >
> > W MACHINES
> >
> >

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 22:50:11
From: "Daniel A. Gulino" <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Subject: Re: December/January JWOs

At 09:49 PM 1/5/1998 -0400, you wrote:

>January's issue came the very next day. Got to see a pic of the back of
>Paul Hartlieb's head in one of the pics... ;-) A little surprised to see
>that Steve DeNovi is stepping down after all this time as OCA president.

The word was that, after all his years as president, he wanted to hang on
through the centennial.  Now that that's over with, he's ready to step down.



Dan



*********************************************************
Dan Gulino
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu/~gulino/rides.html
1975 Delta 88 Convertible
*********************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 23:06:33 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: handren's 445 motor

As I've mentioned before, using the short stroke =
400/425 crank & reciprocating assembly with a 4.250 bore gets you about =
445 cid.  And I still also believe such an engine will blow an =
equivalently prepared 455 (same CR, heads, etc.) into the weeds spotting =
it 10 cubes.

Try it, you'll like it.

Bob Handren
===================
I second the motion.

I witnessed the 425 with lo-rise intake & Qjet going 1 sec. faster [14.5 vs.
13.5] than the 455 with comparable compression, C heads, fancy aftermarket
intake & Holley [ooooooooooh!] 750 carb.

"Winning racers do it with a shorter stroke" ?

- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
         >>> Please snip the excess lines from posts <<<

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 22:42:40 -0500
From: MROTHE <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Need help on dash gauge removal

> '68 Cutlass "S", (convertible).
> remove the entire assembly from the dash to have it reworked, but at a loss 
to
> see what screws are holding it in. Assuming it comes out the front? Got no
> skinny arms or short nut drivers. Please advise o' wise oldsmobilers!

You better get someone WITH skinny arms and short nut drivers. Just
kidding.  This is a REAL pain to do without the dash pad off.
Essentially, with the wires already out of the way, sorry to hear, this
may be easier, but it still isn't pretty.  You have to get up under the
dash, like it or not, and remove two 1/4" head screws, one on either
side near the bottom of the gage bracket.  Be careful, it's plastic.  I
know, easier said than done.  Once those screws and wires are out, the
whole gage assembly slides right out.  It's just that there isn't very
much room even with 4 elbows per arm.  I've done this on a '69, which is
similar, but it still took me 3 hours to get it out.  Sounds
encouraging, doesn't it?  Stick with it, be patient, and try not to
break stuff.

Hope this helps some.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 23:09:34 EST
From: RPTW32 <RPTW32@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Header for a 455

I think you'll be plesantly suprised in that it is muck easier
to install headers on a big block vs. small block. The extra width
of the big blocks bring the headers out from the frame and away from
the starter more.  I remember having to pull the starter on my 72 Supreme
w/350 ,putting the header up from underneath and then bolting the starter up.
while holding the header out of the way. Then working around the starter to
bolt the
header up. Not much fun...... Now having a big block in my 69 442 I have had
both Headman and Hooker headers and both fit excellent. You will still have to
drop the starter to get the header up but you can bolt the header up and then
bolt the starter up without interference from the starter.
On the pass side you still have to pull the oil filter and mount. Bolt the
header
up and replace the oil filter mount and filter.   Wah  la  ..... GO  5.0
hunting.

Rgds,
Rob Thomas
69 442

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Jan 98 21:24:10 PST
From: "chris smetana" <chris@abcs.com>
Subject: Re: Need help on dash gauge removal

Hey, I just did this on my 69 4-4-2 parts car.  This is how I did it, and
nothing broke suprisingly. I removed the dash, pods and dash pad at the same
time.  The clusters removed through the back, although it looked like they 
could
go though the front if a few more bolts were removed.  There are two bolts per
pod at approx 4 o'clock and 8 o'clock.  I removed all the wiring before
unbolting so I could see what speed nuts and other bolts were hidden.  I was
basically on my back on the floor pans looking up under the dash.  And I can't
stress this part enough....WORK SLOWLY and don't force anything, it will come
off/out eventually.  And if it seems to be stuck, check for any bolts/nuts you
may have missed.  Hope this helps

Chris Smetana
Terre Haute, IN
chris@abcs.com

1969 Cutlass W-31
1969 4-4-2 parts car - now dashless and parts are for sale
plus others

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 23:11:40 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: DeNovi's parts

that Steve DeNovi is stepping down after all this time as OCA president.
Sounds like he's going into the parts biz. Might give him a call, I see
he has a front bumper for the Delta I'm not restoring....

Greg Beaulieu
====================
yeah, too bad that he, too, is of the sort to hold parts hostage. His ad says
that if you won't pay the $100 ? he's asking, he'll scrap the parts to make
room.

HELLO! It's OK to sell them for 2c/ª as scrap but not for 5c/ª to Olds fans who
could use them?! Someone please explain this to me.

Many folks would upgrade to a new bumper or even buy them and sit on them for a
while yet, IF they are priced at near-scrap prices. I gather what he has is a
stash of bumpers for the less-popular Big Cars & such. Small market.

When I get out of the hobby, I'm having a "by the pound" sale. Anything too
crappy to buy at 5 cents a lb goes to the scrap yard AFTER the hobbyists pick
over the goodies.

- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
         >>> Please snip the excess lines from posts <<<

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 23:09:30 EST
From: RPTW32 <RPTW32@aol.com>
Subject: Re: was Mondello, now Miller

Kurt,

I take it from your response that you have attended the Mondello
meet in the past. I spoke to Dick Miller a couple of weeks ago
and he advised that he is taking over the Norwalk event. I guess
that Mondello is going to have his held now at Bristol Tn. raceway.
starting in 1999.  This is what I've heard. Don't suppose I'll ever find
out for sure as for the past 4 years I never got a flyer from Mondello
for his event..... despite winning  Street Tire class twice since 93'
 Appreciated Joe for hosting this event but must confess that the way
he treated the participants left much to be desired.

 Good friend of mine won class in 97 and didn't get 14 of the posted
contingency
awards.  That was very disappointing.

 What car and class did you participate in / with.  I have video from the
past 5 years and could probably find ya on it..
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
 As a longtime Olds performance buff I would encourage all other Olds owners
that like to race/watch or show their cars try to catch this event at Norwalk
raceway
in Norwalk Ohio ,on Aug. 16.  We need to show our support for Dick as he has
now
taken on the finacial responsibility to host this event for our enjoyment.
Those of you
that are in reasonable range of this track and have never been to an event at
Norwalk are in for a real treat. This track is probably one of the nicest
tracks operating in the country. Everyone from the owner to the lowest person
on the totem pole go out of their way to ensure that all visitors enjoy the
event whatever it takes.
 For those that are not into the racing as much there is a car show on site
the same
day of which was never pushed as much as the racing event.  Let's turn this
event
into the largest Midwest gathering or Oldsmobile's second only to the OCA
nat's.
The grounds at Norwalk can easily accomodate 1000 cars for show without even
getting into the pit area or mingling among the racers.

What'a say folks....... they get thousands attending the Buick meet every year
in Bowling Green Ky. What better way to get our marque RECONIZED for the
beauty and power we all hold keys to......

Happy E.T.'s to all

Rgds,
Rob Thomas
69 442

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 23:09:32 EST
From: RPTW32 <RPTW32@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Hosed

A trick I learned a long time ago is to put a very thin layer
of silicone around the inside of the rad hoses about an inch
from the ends before putting on. This on only provides addtl
sealing but also keeps hose from bonding to rad. fitting when
requiring removal.  Very easy to peel off old silicone before
reinstalling if required.  Secrete is to use very sparingly. only a
very thin film is all that's needed.

Rob Thomas
69 442

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 23:24:20 -0500
From: Jerry Christopher <IThEFunKI@ViperLink.Net>
Subject: Re: Need help on dash gauge removal

MROTHE wrote:

> similar, but it still took me 3 hours to get it out.  Sounds
> encouraging, doesn't it?  Stick with it, be patient, and try not to
> break stuff.

A true "Shade Tree Mechanic"  I think you'll see that a lot soon...
<EG>
- --
- - Jerry Christopher
- - HTTP://WWW2.Viperlink.Net/Members/IThEFunKI
- - 1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
- - Here we go Steelers!!!

------------------------------

Date: 5 Jan 1998 15:47:32 EDT
From: Wyatt@jobax.net
Subject: Winnners!

Congratulations to Larry Polesnak and Mark Prince.  Larry took top
honors in the My Classic Car Classic Pic Contest with his '62 Starfire.
Mark Prince came in second with his '72 W-30.  Third was a '55 bowtie.
Way to go guys, you had some tough competition.

Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 23:26:37 EST
From: Brener6150 <Brener6150@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Need help on dash gauge removal

just take out the dam screws!!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:43:26 EST
From: AARONLIFE <AARONLIFE@aol.com>
Subject: Re: brothers

Steve,

I need to order a quarter panel and I haven't decided where to get it from;
Year One is back-ordered till the end of the month, I haven't called Sherman
yet, or spoken with you.  (Still waiting on insurance co).

I would love to know that a vendor would take the time to pre-measure a part
to guarantee quality.

Would you be willing to measure a left-rear quarter for a 69 442 conv and
check it's accuracy as a form of quality control?

That would allow me to make an informed decision as to whom I want my body
shop to order from, and what compromises we'll have to endure.

Thanks,
Aaron

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 23:25:02 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: Laura's motor

Anyway what I need to know is first of all the place said they found a
replacement block.  Mine was the early 455, should I be picky enough to
demand the same (as in first series or second series)?........Next which is
the *MOST* important, I need to know some quick ID tips for non Olds
engines.  This place's track record isn't great and they seem a bit shady.
I don't want to be stuck with a Buick, Chevy or any other type of engine
other than an Olds.  I'm not a car junky so couldn't immediatly ID the block
by looks (especially after they paint it).  Any quick tips, things to look for
to make sure it's an Rocket?

And this is prolly a stupid question, is there anyway to tell what the
workmanship is like, without having to wait till it leaves you stranded on
the roadside when you push it?  This place is bad enough they probably
just found the crappiest replacement block they could find.
Laura   66 Delta 88 aka Pook
- ------------------------------
     You mention that your 66 has an early 455.  I assume this is not the
     original engine, as the 455 was not released until 1968.  Prior cars
     had the 425.

     As for getting an early 455, the early blocks are more desirable due
     to the thicker walls and higher nickel content.  For a light duty
     street motor, you'll likely never notice the difference of a later
     unit, however it's better to start with the thicker walls if the block
     needs to be bored.  To identify an early block, look for a large
     raised letter "F" or "F1" cast into the rear of the block underneath
     the flywheel.  Later blocks will have the designations "F2" through
     "F6". -Joe P.
==========================

Yeah, what he said.

Make sure you did or did not have a 425! If you had a 425, and did or will
convert to a 455, the cams WILL NOT interchange. Maybe that was their original
mistake? If they bought a cam for a 455, and put it into a 425.... crappy
running!

Quick ID tip: Large [1" tall] ID letter at the front of the block, they should
be able to show you where... 455 is an "F" [lotsa alliteration there, eh?] and
the 425 is a "D" block.

This is NOT the same as the "F" that JP speaks of- his "F", F1, F0, etc. are
about 3/8" tall figures, found on the REAR FACE of the block, under/ behind the
flexplate or flywheel. Those refer to production alterations, as JP said,
corresponding to subtle metallurgical differences for the most part.
  Not what you need concern yourself with.

Actually, from a parts standpoint, you'd be better off with a 455 than a 425,
finding a replacement 425 could be quite a search. Now, your BEST bet would be
to use a 455 block, with its easy- to- find- a- cam- for lifter bank angle, and
install in/ on it your 425's innards [crank, rods, pistons] and heads, intake,
etc., and a cam for the 455 block.  Then you'd have a 425 that LOOKS LIKE a 455
from the outside. This presumes your first motor discussed here was a 425 D
block not a 455 F block.

Alas, the only way to really be sure they do it right is to see the various
measurements that matter- bore size and cylindricity, crank journal
measurements, etc. Rather involved for the uninitiated. Do you have an expert
friend that could do a pre-assembly inspection?

And, PLEASE, Laura, SPECIFY the color of the motor before they paint it, lest
you end up with a Chevy Orange 455!

It should be red for your car. Red.
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
         >>> Please snip the excess lines from posts <<<

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 22:26:57 -0600
From: Terry Wiles <tlwiles@icontrol.net>
Subject: Converting points to HEI?

Anyone out there converted their std. points to an HEI system?   Did you use
aftermarket parts or swaped stuff?   I am looking at one unit from Crane called
the XR700, says that there are only four wires to hook up for the install.
Ignition is not one of my strong points (no pun intended).   This system is
$100, and I understand that the reliabilaty factor will be worth the money, but
what can I expect in performance?   Any info would be great.

Terry Wiles
'70 Supreme

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 22:31:46 -0600
From: Kurt Bonifay <kbonifay@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: fuel guage cluster

Tim in Oklahoma

I have a 1968 chassis service manual in front of me turned to the page
with instructions on fuel guage cluster removal.  It has been a year
since I removed my dash and instrument panel from my 68 conv. so I can't
write from experience accurately.  Here it goes-

1 remove left AC duct if your car has this option.
2 disconnect ground
3 disconnect circuit connector
4 remove 2 attaching screws (cluster assembly to control panel) and
remove cluster assembly through front of pad.

The two screws are located at 5 o'clock and 7 o'clock on the back side
of your cluster.  I hope this helps and by the way, the chassis sevice
manual is a very good source of info.  I'd be lost with out it.


Rhett
68 442 conv. (under restoration)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 23:31:02 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: 231=> V8

I have obtained a 1984 olds cutlass. This car has the buick 231 motor in it.
So far by looking at the tranny it appears to be 350 . I was told
if the tranny has a 4 bolt output shaft it is a TH350. Is this true
or not?

[[Not necessarily. That trick is for differentiating the TH350 from the TH400.
Other smaller than 400 transes also used the 4-bolt rear housing.]]

 I would like to remove the 231. In its place I would like to go with the Olds
350 . But I have heard stories that the olds engine will be a pain to get in.
Firewall, mount problems and not enough room for the air cleaner to sit on the
carb.

[[Bullshit. A big block will fit, though the air cleaner will just touch
the hood insulation. They must be Ch*vy "experts"...]]

Everyone says put a bowtie in it.

[[  did I hear that one coming, or what? ]]

I would like to stay away from that option.

[[ Good call. "If everyone jumped in the lake and drowned, would you do it,
too?"]]

Im planning on running this motor with a computer. No emission tests in
Indiana.
Bob 1977 Olds 442

[[ as you wish... others have guided you well on that topic already ]]
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
         >>> Please snip the excess lines from posts <<<

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:10:15 EST
From: James244 <James244@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Rear Side Markers

I've allways heard that their is a slight size difference on the 68 & 69 rear
side markers. I know that GM had different part numbers for the 68 and 69's.
The part ª's for the 69 are 230741 because I happen to have a set of NOS
Bezels. I believe that the actual red lens is slightly bigger for the 68.

James
69 442
86 442

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 00:17:49 -0500
From: Don Sowers <dstaxpro@lex.infi.net>
Subject: Re: A final word on Brother's service

loris wrote:

> "There is hardly anything in the world
> that some man cannot make a little worse
> and sell a little cheaper,
> and the people who consider price only
> are this man's lawful prey."
>
> If I'm like anyone else that demands quality service, VERY high quality
> products, and competitive/reasonable prices, I will take my time to find
> all three.  It's a buyer beware country.

(First of all let me state this is not directed towards Brothers or any
other supplier in particular.  I have not done business with them
although I did talk to them a few years ago about maybe buying some
parts.  Things got a litle cray and the Olds projects went on the back
burner for a while.  Having said that, here we go.)

Sorry I DON'T agree.  I agree you HAVE to take your time and check for
all three, but IMHO you shouldn't HAVE to.  You see I believe in
something called truth in advertising and good old fashion values.  If
you advertise or put out for sale something that is supposed to be a 72
Cutlass conv qtr or whatever, if it doesn't fit it is not a 72 Cutlass
conv qtr or whatever.  It is something else, not what you advertised.
The same holds true if it is a computer, refrigerator or whatever.  If
you say it is close to what you need, then it becomes a subjective
judgement and open to a wide range of maybes, ifs, etc.

So yes, in today's unfortunate business environment, one must watch the
posterior in transactions.  But when I was growing up (for what it's
worth, I'm 49 now), if you advertised something, you expected and
demanded what was advertised.  Maybe that concept has been somewhat lost
in today's society, but I hope not.  When you advertise an orange, I buy
an orange, and you ship me an apple, we have a problem.  The same would
apply, at least to me, in anything I buy.  If you used the buyer beware
premise, I would suggest no one buy anything from anybody that they
can't go personally see in a reasonable time.  There would be a lot of
people out of business if this were to happen.

Sorry for the length, but buyer beware is NOT an open invitation to sell
substandard parts or services (my business).  Sell what you advertise
for the advertised price with a quality product and the world will beat
a path to your door.  Do it another way and the attorneys, consumer
rights groups, etc will beat that same path.  In closing, I would like
to restate this post is NOT a slam of Brothers or any other place in
particular, but an observation of today's business climate in general.
Thank you for your time.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:21:20 -0500 (EST)
From: ea154@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Josh J. Haviland)
Subject: 87 cutlass, odd problem... and 4-4-2 progress

  Hello, well :) it's been a good car so far aside from the fact it has a
B*ick engine (for now) but i've been having a slight problem with the
engine, the oil light keeps comming on for a few seconds or 30 on startup,
(the oil is full) then i start driving (after the slipping tranny kicks in)
and the lght goes out and the thing stops beeping at me, but, the kicker
is, as soon as i hit 40-45 and overdrive kicks in it comes on again! but if
i barely tap the brake and unlock (?) the torque converter it goes out till
i let off the brakes, does anyone have a cluw what this might be? and no
check engine light.

 But on the lighter side of things, and due to some rewally nice weather
here in the cleveland area. i finally got the body off my 72 4-4-2, and
i've never seen a frame with more patches in it in my life! most of which i
could just break off by hand due to rust. including breaking off the frame
just past the rear tires by hand also, good thing i found another frame,
because i'd hate to have to fix this one :)
well, all of you have a great day and thanx for listenin

Josh
'70 delta 88
'72 4-4-2 (now bodyshell)
'87 cutlass

- --
__/////////\  Budgreen, ea154@cleveland.freenet.edu  /\\\\\\\\\__
  \\\\\\\\\/      Josh......   ISRT@hotmail.com      \/////////
=================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 21:01:41 -0800
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Wagon for Sale

The operator of the Station Wagon Owners Assoc. page forwarded this for
sale message to me.  Usual disclaimers in force.

First, I haven't set up for my e-mail at home yet, so if you get this, and
wish to reply, I am at B.Whitehead@Allmerica.com, at the office.  My home
phone is 508.869.6269.  I have a 1973 Custom (not Vista) Cruiser I purchased
from the original owner in Orlando in 1989.  It now has 120k miles and I've
rebuilt everything I know to rebuild (engine, A/C, radiator, brakes, trannie,
differntial {posi}, front end, front coils, shocks, etc.) Heck, I even rebuily
the clock and the 8-track!  It just came from the body shop again and looks
beautiful; we de-rusted, metalled and painted.  It's the original yellow with
the wood-grain applique and a saddle interior.  It isn't perfect, but those
who aren't fastideous nuts like me don't notice.  I have decided to sell.  I
hate to, but I am so busy at work and honestly a bit tired of the little
things that come up to put your daily driver out of commission, it makes
sense.  I would love her ("The Nimitz") to have a good home.  It was appraised
at $8,500; I need $6,500.  Any thoughts?  I am starting with someone who loves
wagons, too, and may help to find a home to keep a good (and somewhat rare
model) preserved.  I know she's no MoPar, but the 455 is almost as torquey as
the 440!  Bill Whitehead in MA, 12.30.97

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 23:22:56 -0600
From: "Samuel E. Johnson, Jr" <cutlass403@ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: engines

Actually an Olds 403 would run better with a good set of heads and a light 
body.
I ran an Olds cutlass (1980) with a 403 in it and I ran 13.60 with it. I had a
Holly intake with a comp cam 252. Also I had 3.73 gears. Other than that the
motor was stock. Oh yea, no header with duel exhaust and flow master muffs. a
650 dual feed double carb too.

Mikey tvb wrote:

> what would a 403 engine run like with the full edelbrock rpm kit in it?  has
> anyone ever done this?
>
> mikey tvb@aol.com
> 73 cutlass w/403

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:39:41 EST
From: BIG JERMES <BIGJERMES@aol.com>
Subject: Re: engines

In a message dated 98-01-05 22:01:14 EST, you write:

<< what would a 403 engine run like with the full edelbrock rpm kit in it?
has
 anyone ever done this? >>

well, ill put it to you like this.  if you put that rpm package on a 350, you
get 397hp! (this is with ª5 heads and a few other minor things.) go to
edelbrock's website.  they have some info on it.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:39:10 EST
From: Oldsparts <Oldsparts@aol.com>
Subject: Re:  Not Mad At Anyone

My apology to all on the list.

I spoke with Chris S this A.M. and hopefully this issue is behind us all.
Partially as a result of my crummy AOL e-mail, Chris's e-mail on the subject
did not arrive until the day after  I first became aware of this issue on the
list.

Please, if you have a problem, gripe, or just a suggestion, please call us
directly.

Hoagie-If you ever get to know me you'll realize you couldn't have been more
wrong.  I'm probably less motivated by money than any other person you know.
It's not that I don't need it-I've got two kids in parochial school. I do it
for money to the extent that I'm addicted, you know, to eating.  The real
reason I do it is because I love to  restore,  preserve and drive  old
Oldsmobiles.  That is how I got started and that is why I still do it today.
If your ever in the neighborhood, stop by and I'll show you a couple of
examples of my work.

Sincerely For Oldsmobiles (And Done Doin' Da Ditka)
Steve Kenny
800-442-part
www.oldspart.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 21:42:34 -0500
From: Lloyd Ferguson <ferguson@1stnetusa.com>
Subject: Re: fuel guage cluster

>Tim in Oklahoma
>
>I have a 1968 chassis service manual in front of me turned to the page
>with instructions on fuel guage cluster removal.  It has been a year
>since I removed my dash and instrument panel from my 68 conv. so I can't
>write from experience accurately.  Here it goes-
>
>1 remove left AC duct if your car has this option.
>2 disconnect ground
>3 disconnect circuit connector
>4 remove 2 attaching screws (cluster assembly to control panel) and
>remove cluster assembly through front of pad.
>
>The two screws are located at 5 o'clock and 7 o'clock on the back side
>of your cluster.  I hope this helps and by the way, the chassis sevice
>manual is a very good source of info.  I'd be lost with out it.
>
>
>Rhett
>68 442 conv. (under restoration)

This is basically the way I did it, I used one of the little ignition
wrenches that come with the Craftsman tool assortments to remove and
install the screws.

I did mine when I had the seats out for carpet replacement and found it a
hell of a lot easier to work under the dash when I was flat on my back.  If
I had it to do again I would seriously consider removing the six bolts and
taking the seats out.



Lloyd Ferguson
ferguson@1stnetusa.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 00:57:13 -0500
From: James & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Subject: Re: Clarification on L34 and L35 engines

At 09:33 PM 1/5/98 -0500, you wrote:
Loris

        You are 100% correct. They were the same engines. Just different
designations for the model they came in.

Jim Chermack


>What's the differnce between an L34 and an L35 on a 1972 350 cid?  It
>appears to me that the L34 was used only in intermediate models and the
>L35 was used on full-size models.  Otherwise, ALL of the engine specs
>are identicle.  Or am I incorrect on this?  Thanks.
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 21:53:37 -0800
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Re: 1965 Oldsmobile Cutlass

Would you happen to have a floor shifter available?


Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, CA

'64 Cutlass, '66 Toronado, '67 Delta 88 Custom, '69 Toronado, '72 Vista
Cruiser (twin hauler)

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

Subscribe To : Lisa's Classic Oldsmobile Bulletin Board Mailing List:
Glass Line's Bulletin Board: http://exo.com/~jht/wwwboard/olds/

*** NEW ***
Lisa's Oldsmobile FREE Banner Exchange
http://exo.com/~jht/olds/banners/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 21:52:40 -0800
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: '72 Bumper

>I need PERFECT (or near perfect) front  bumper for a 1972
>Cutlass Convertible.

I have a very nice '72 front bumper for sale.  E-mail me privately @
Lisa@hotglass.com

Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, CA

'64 Cutlass, '66 Toronado, '67 Delta 88 Custom, '69 Toronado, '72 Vista
Cruiser (twin hauler)

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

Subscribe To : Lisa's Classic Oldsmobile Bulletin Board Mailing List:
Glass Line's Bulletin Board: http://exo.com/~jht/wwwboard/olds/

*** NEW ***
Lisa's Oldsmobile FREE Banner Exchange
http://exo.com/~jht/olds/banners/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 01:09:50 EST
From: COUPE KING <COUPEKING@aol.com>
Subject: Re: brothers

Aaron-
There is only one maker of GM authorized repro quarter panels. Fusick,
Brothers and Year One all sell the same part.
When I bought my quarters from Brothers 6-8 months ago, the right panel was
out of stock. Steve got a panel from Year One--they had a supply-- and sent it
to me when I was in a bind . There was no extra charge.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 01:40:42 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: Non-performance W-options

>bob, was decals and stripe kits the only diff. between the rallye and a
>regular cutlass? do you happen to know what the standard options for the
>rallye were?

Just so happens that Sullivan's "Resto Guide" has a photostat of an order
sheet with the mandatory options for the Rallye 350 checked off:

W45= Rallye 350 option itself, including:
        * Sebring Yellow Paint
        * Black and Orange Decals
        * Urethane-coated Sebring Yellow bumpers
        * Blacked out Grille
        * Custom Painted Super Stock II wheels (actually yellow SSIII's)
        * G70x14" wide oval blackwall tires
        * "Rallye 350" decals

W25= OAI hood
L74= 310hp high-compression 4-bbl 350 motor
N34= Custom Sport Steering Wheel
D35= Styled Sports Outside Rearview mirrors
W35= Rear Deck Lid Air Spoiler
FE2= Rallye Suspension
N10= Dual exhaust

Now, the factory release mentions "Six mandatory options", and excludes the
W35 spoiler in its listing; that might imply that the price of the spoiler
was in fact, or was intended to be, part of the price of the W45 package 
itself.

When I call it a "decal" package, however, I mean that there's no
performance items that are exclusive to the W45 option (unless the W25 hood
was only available with the 310hp 350 when you ordered the Rallye 350; I
don't know about that one). You could order up a L74, dual-exhaust 4-spd F85
with the FE2 suspension and SSII rims/G70x14" tires, and have everything of
the Rallye 350 except for the stripes.

In fact, the factory literature refers to the W45 "Appearance Package" ("the
NOW look"...heh), not the W45 "performance package."
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 01:40:48 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: Hosed

>It's a non-A/C car but it has the same drain you refer to. Unfortunately
>since the floor of the heater box is flat for all intents and purposes
>the drain only works if the car is level or pointing downhill. My
>driveway points uphill slightly and I think this leads to water coming
>back in via the floor heater outlet. Come spring I might try fabricating a
>small dam for the inside of the thing, or a drain tube from the outlet of
>the baffle below the cowl inlet to the drain.

Or you could just back up the driveway...
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 01:40:50 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: 1970 W-32? (and other Q's too)

>Hey! Now I'm confused!  I have a '70 SX that came from the dealer originaly
>with the 455 that has the cast iron 4-barrel intake and carb. setup and the
>big valve E heads and TH400, but the rear is a 12 bolt limited-slip with
>the 2.56 setup (just the other day I got under the car and did the
>driveshaft turns vs. wheel turn thingy; I was hopin' to have at LEAST a
>3.08 :-( ) and not the 3.08 rear as Dr. Barry (or other source) says it
>should have.  The car was purchased new from the dealer and nothin' has
>been swapped or changed out as far as I know (refer back to my original
>question concerning this posted on 12/5/97).  Anyway, does this mean the
>car should have come standard with the 3.08 rear since I do have the W-32
>option?

No, no, sorry for the confusion; I was speaking about the *standard*
equipment that these cars came with. The 2.56:1 rear axle was available with
the W-32 motor as option G96 (you might find this code on your
documentation). Though the L33 motor came with the 2.56:1 rear as standard,
it could be ordered with the 2.73 or 3.08 rear as well, so the presence of a
particular rear axle ratio doesn't indicate a W-32 car or not (which could
have anything from a 2.56 to a 3.42 rear).

>greatly appreciated!!!  Oh, and BTW, would someone happen to know the
>correct color of paint (it's like a silver color) for the front plastic
>grills of the '70 Cutlass Supremes and where I can buy the spray paint
>(like at NAPA or other)??  Thanks again!!!

I think that color is "Dull Aluminum"; regular Krylon will do (I have to do
my grilles as well...).
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 01:40:45 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: RE: Latest progress report on the SX

>as far as my gasket goes. O.k. now for the real question. How did you
>know how much diff fluid to put in? The reason I ask is I want to know
>how you did it. After letting the rear down, is that when you filled the
>diff by checking the fill hole or in the air with a measured amount?

Since the angle of the rear differential didn't change substantially when
the car was jacked in the air, I just poured fluid in then until it started
pouring back out (since it's 80W-140, it pours rather slowly, so you have
time to wipe up). I had four pints ready, plus the positraction additive (7
ounces worth), and used perhaps three pints. The W-27 cover is supposed to
take another pint; that's for a twelve-bolt, though- it might be different
for a 10-bolt. I'd just pour it in until it pours back out (which is why I
added the posi additive after the first pint).

>So you changed the rear suspension. My turned into a "mightaswell",
>also, although I planned it that way. What rear spring manufacturer did
>you go with? I used TRW's heavy duty constant rate springs. And Monroe
>gas shocks. I liked these because they were there and blue. The price
>was good too, $25 each.  The springs were $100. The diff is in now (10
>Bolt 2.73 posi) . Just waiting to tighten everything up..

I really lo-bucked it on that one; the springs were some variable-rate
springs from an unknown manufacturer that Bob Valentine donated to me (he
said that they were listed as FE2 replacement springs, I believe), which
were fatter than the standard springs in there. As for shocks, I replaced
the antique Gabriels on there with a pair of shocks from the back of the '76
Monte I parted this summer; these were a pair of Sears shocks that were on
sale a couple years ago for $8 each (the Monte was a beater car for driving
into the Bronx; I didn't feel compelled to splurge). They're not optimal,
but they're better than what was on there!

I'd have to get some decent tires on there before I could say whether the
setup works well or not. I've collected a few Cutlass parts over the years,
so when I was putting this SX back together, I used the fattest and newest
springs and swaybar I had lying around; I'll have to hold off souping the
car up and getting a truly matched combination until I can be sure it's
running reliably every day (which it does seem to be doing quite well), and
it looks halfway decent (which it's still far from, with all the surface
rust being very evident on the yellow/gray-primer body).
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 01:40:52 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: Clarification on L34 and L35 engines

>What's the differnce between an L34 and an L35 on a 1972 350 cid?  It
>appears to me that the L34 was used only in intermediate models and the
>L35 was used on full-size models.  Otherwise, ALL of the engine specs
>are identicle.  Or am I incorrect on this?  Thanks.

The fundamental engine specs will be identical for the L34 and L35 (as well
as for the 2-bbl L32 and L33). There may be some difference in the air
cleaner setup, exhaust manifolding, and possibly in the distributor numbers
and specifications, but I'd bet money on the fact that everything else would
be identical. In '73 and later, they did tune the emissions packages to the
specific models that an engine might be installed in, but before that, most
350's were the virtually the same across all model lines (W31 excepted)
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 01:45:34 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: re:Non-performance W-options

>One question concerning a W code,  would a double alpha (ie. WJ7 - custom
>leather trim) be considdered a W code?  or only a single alpha (ie. W42 -
>Cutlass 442)

Oh, I think we'd have to limit it to the single alpha W-options (ok, who's
going to jump on me for excluding the W0-43 engine.... ;)

>W82 - canada billing extra fuel (it's got so much performance Olds had to
>                give it more gas to get it to Canada) ;)

heh... So, can I say I've "added" the W82 option when I fill my car up with
a couple extra gallons? ;)

>Here's one that is not a W code but interesting none-the-less
>ZR6 - Show car
>
>Be interesting to find out which ones had that!!

That's an interesting option; what can they possibly mean by that? Could you
order your car as a "show car"?
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 23:00:00 -0500
From: Lloyd Ferguson <lloyd.ferguson@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Rear Side Markers

>I've allways heard that their is a slight size difference on the 68 & 69 rear
>side markers. I know that GM had different part numbers for the 68 and 69's.
>The part ª's for the 69 are 230741 because I happen to have a set of NOS
>Bezels. I believe that the actual red lens is slightly bigger for the 68.
>
>James
>69 442
>86 442

Just to add some more confusion,

I have a pair of rear marker assemblies on my desk which I am sure I took
from a '69 either Cutlass S or a Supreme at the wrecker.  The rear of the
housing says:

 G33 SAE P1 68

The lens says:

 GUIDE 33 on one side and SAE P1 68 on the other it has a part number of
 5960234 5  moulded into it.

The bezel has 403908 cast into it.

I went and looked at my '69 S in the driveway and the lenses match the above.

When I was a kid we always used to tell the year of a car by the numbers
cast in the tail light bezels.  Which would make these 1968 parts (or
originally produced for 1968 cars).

Could it be that the housing  and lens are the same and there is a small
difference in the bezel (perhaps to match a different curve in the rear
quarters)?


Lloyd Ferguson
ferguson@1stnetusa.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 06:34:32 -0600
From: "Daren & Laurie Hendley" <daren@revealed.net>
Subject: Re: Engine replacement

- -----Original Message-----
From: OldsCut442 <OldsCut442@aol.com>
>The real reason im sending this email. I would like to remove the 231.
>In its place I would like to go with the Olds 350 . But I have heard
stories
>that the olds engine will be a pain to get in. Firewall, mount problems and
>not
>enough room for the air cleaner to sit on the carb.

I had a 455 in a '82. Stock intake, Qjet and a 14" Moroso air cleaner (about
3" tall filter). Fit like it belonged in it.

Daren

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 06:40:16 -0600
From: "Daren & Laurie Hendley" <daren@revealed.net>
Subject: Re: Hosed

- -----Original Message-----
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
>I was able to reattach it again right there and once I got home I
>refilled it with coolant -- again. But this is getting ridiculous. Anyone
>have an idea what it could be? Could the rad cap be bad, or could hose
>clamps back off with some heat/cool cycles?
>


Try sanding the hose fittings it will give the hose something to grab. It's
worked for me. Of course this means removing the hoses again. Practice makes
purfect :)

Daren

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 08:17:17 -0800
From: evans1@net-link.net
Subject: TEST.....DO NOT READ

Test
Michael A. Evans
evans1@net-link.net
Richland, MI

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 ª1043
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