To:	oldsmobile-digest@chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #1083


oldsmobile-digest      Monday, February 2 1998      Volume 01 : Number 1083



700R4
The Texas F-85
Karl Aune
Karl Aune
Carburetor inlet fix!
Re: FYI: 1973 Oldsmobile Option Codes
Re: [Fwd: EFI info]
Re: Power Windows
'76 "W-25" hood
Re: FORD fuel problem
Re: FS: 1985 Cutlass Salon
tranny
Re: golf ball
heat stove operation
Re: Head Identification - Odd Heads on 455BB
Emissions questions-non-olds (sorta long)
sold the '70 CA body
Re: Just purchased a 455
Re: Just purchased a 455
Re: AL V8 motor
Re: FS: 1985 Cutlass Salon
Re: Regarding Drool page comments
Re: Fuel Pumps - Manual Vs Electric
Re: golf ball
Re: Joined OCA
Re: new seats
Re: G-body interchangeability with Buick
Trivia
Priming Fuel to Pump
Re: GN/SS/442 Exhaust on  a "Y" 307
Re: Drool Page Continued!
Ford Tools
roller cams
To hell with the 200-4R's!
regal hood swap?
Re: Tricarb 442 for sale
RE: Power Windows
stripes
option codes [bs]
Re: FS: 1985 Cutlass Salon
Re: Super Shops
Re: Fuel Pumps - Manual Vs Electric
Re: new seats
anyone familier with valve spring instalation
Just purchased a 455
72 To 455 => 85
66 98 For Sale
HID lights available cheap
oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
valve spring shimming
68 motor ID ª's
FOR SALE: Parts 64-72 Cutlass/442/Toro

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 16:55:25 -0500
From: Howie <qcquad@cuny.campus.mci.net>
Subject: 700R4

I'm getting prep'ed to put a 700R4 into a '71 Cutlass Supreme (w/ 350cid
olds).
There is only one part I'm not sure about, whether the rear tranny mount
will slide back far enough to catch the 700. Does anyone have any
experience with this?
Any info will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks;
Howie

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 17:37:30 EST
From: KarlAune@aol.com
Subject: The Texas F-85

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 21:48:35 -0800
P.P. wrote.....

A friend of mine has a 1962 F-85 2-door with what I believe must be the 215 ci
all-aluminum V-8 engine.  The car is totally untouched down to the Rocket V-8
decal on the air cleaner.  It has a bench seat and an automatic.  The body is
straight, the interior is decent and the chrome is very good.   How many of
these cars were made and what would the value of this interesting vehicle?  He
is asking $300.

A Texas car right?

Arrrrrgh!

I would buy this car, but I have nowhere to put it! Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh.



Hey Chuck Buehner!

Got an extra paddock in your Oldsmobile stable that I might rent for a year or
two?


Of course... I would run the risk of the "Oldsmobile magnet" being attracted
to my car....

Karl Aune

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 17:37:33 EST
From: KarlAune@aol.com
Subject: Karl Aune

"Assassin SS"   <riviera72sss@hotmail.com> wrote:

[Are you the karl who has a 1975 Oldsmobile Delta 88 convertible??]


No, sir.


I am the Karl Aune who has a 1965 Oldsmobile Dynamic 88 Celebrity Sedan which
I named "Soylent Ocean Mist" and drove to the Oldsmobile Centennial in
Lansing.

Oh, and I christened Mr. Buehner the "Oldsmobile Magnet".

Thanks for asking!

Karl Aune and Soylent Ocean Mist
1965 Dynamic 88 Celebrity Sedan
Chicago, Illinois
Member; OCA, IVOC
members.aol.com/KarlAune/rage.html

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 17:37:32 EST
From: KarlAune@aol.com
Subject: Karl Aune

"Assassin SS"  <riviera72sss@hotmail.com> wrote;

[Are you the karl that has a 1975 Olds Delta 88 Convertible??]


No sir.

I am the Karl who has the 1965 Oldsmobile Dynamic 88 Celebrity Sedan that I
named "Soylent Ocean Mist" and drove to Lansing, MI for the Oldsmobile
Centennial. Much the same way that I will drive it to the Oldsmobile Club of
America National Meet in Springfield, IL. I have been off and on this list for
approximately a year.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 17:53:01 EST
From: KarlAune@aol.com
Subject: Carburetor inlet fix!

OK, time to perform my duty as a member of the Rocket Road Assistance Program
(RRAP).

I have found out today that my local auto supply store has the self-tapping
carb inlet fittings that are the proper repair for stripped inlet threads.
Those of you who need these can Email me directly, we'll deal, and I will send
you the proper fitting for your application.


Karl Aune and Soylent Ocean Mist
1965 Dynamic 88 Celebrity Sedan

Members; OCA, IVOC

KarlAune@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/KarlAune/rage.html

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 18:04:25 -0500
From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@nbn.net>
Subject: Re: FYI: 1973 Oldsmobile Option Codes

Matt Cremean wrote:

> Where would I find all these codes?

Out of the '73 SPECS book...

> I know for sure it has:
>
> A01-Soft-Ray Tinted Windows
> A65-Custom Sport Front Seat
> B30-Nylon-Blend Loop-Pile Floor Carpeting
> C60-Four-Season Air Conditioner
> L34-Rocket 350 V-8 Engine, 4bbl carburetor
> M38-Turbo-HydraMatic 350 Transmission
>
> But where would I find things like the rear end code, tire code, etc.?

Paul
- --
Paul Hartlieb
Myerstown, PA
mailto:plh@nbn.net
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe
'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible

Why do they call it a TV set when you only get one?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 16:32:23 -0700
From: Charley Buehner <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: EFI info]

> for the big block Olds, flows up to 1400 cfm.....all for only *choke*
> $4500.

Hmm.  I wonder if he offers financing...  Like easy, no-interest monthly
payments of like 12 dollars for the next 32 years....

I'd be pretty dang sure
> you'd have the only one in Montana! ;-)

Safe bet, I'm sure.  Sometimes I get the feeling there's only a handful
of people in MT that drive Olds's anyway...  Of course, one finger of
that hand happens to own enough Olds's to make up for the rest of the
state, but.....  :)

               Charley Buehner -- The Oldsmobile Magnet
For Me:  mailto:buehner@lyrea.com       mailto:charley@rocketship.com
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner
    Sidney Radio Shack:     mailto:redline_av@webtv.net
        Sidney Montana

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 18:39:34 EST
From: ANTIQOLDS@aol.com
Subject: Re: Power Windows

In a message dated 98-01-31 22:05:10 EST, you write:

<<
 I have the doors off of my car and they have power windows. How can I get the
 windows down? Can I hook the window wires up to a battery,

Hi Jim
   Yes you can, I test all my motors that I sell this way, You must ground the
motor to the negative side of 12volt source and one of the two wires that come
out of the motor will move it up or down when put on the positive side of the
12volt source

Hope this helps


Everett  OCAª 1961  1961 Starfire

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 18:57:53 -0500
From: "Michael A. Evans" <evans1@net-link.net>
Subject: '76 "W-25" hood

Did anyone ever find a place that still manufactures these?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 15:55:36 -0800
From: mrada <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Subject: Re: FORD fuel problem

Daren & Laurie Hendley wrote:
>
> 88-90 octane is .91 to .94 cents 91-92 octane is .96 to $1.04 and 110 octane
> unleaded ~racing gas~ (that's what the sign says) was $2.95 a couple weeks

Well in So. California the gas is $1.31 for 92 octane!  Boy are we
getting
ripped off out here!

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 16:57:17 -0700
From: Charley Buehner <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Re: FS: 1985 Cutlass Salon

> > I believe someone here
> >once said that rustout in the rear frame area was notorious on these
> >cars, but I'm not sure.  Any ideas would be helpful.

I guess everyone's pretty well beaten the frame concept down well,
here.  One more thing to be wary of is the T-tops.  Seems everyone loves
'em and everyone hates 'em.  Go figure that...  Pull 'em off and check
the roof lines for rust.  They're ~very~ suscepptible there.  If you
can, pull that thin trim panel off, too.  (Runs around the front edge of
the roof, and wraps around the center moulding (kindof...  It's often
glued down with weatherstripping, if that clarifies anything.)  I found
gobs of rust under mine.  My windshield's cracked a bit, and with the
tops off, I can watch the A-pillars flex more than half an inch on rough
roads.  The rust and the cracked windshield contribute to that.  It's
annoying at best, though.  Also, (perhaps when owner isn't watching???)
Crank out the old Makita and pull the trim panels off the T-tops
themselves.  (First pull the handle off)  Inspect the gear assembly for
the latch.  These go to hell on a few.  I have to leave that panel off
on mine, and engage the latch by tugging on the rod in there.  The
handle only moves the front locking rod now.

Hmm, what else to look for?  Check around the front and rear bumpers.
There's a plastic filler panel than connects the bumper to the 1/4 panel
& fender.  Look for these areas to be bent in.  I've seen dozens of G
bodies with that problem...  They pull right back out by hand, usually
(at least the fenders do) and aren't very severe, by any means, but does
offer clues to how often the car has been "parked" in the ditch.  The
lower body line should be relatively flat from the wheelwell moulding to
the bumper (i.e. shouldn't bend in anywhere.  You'll see a lot that do,
if you make a point of looking.)

Check the trunk hinge area for cracks, I guess.  Not sure what caused
mine to be all busted up on the deck lid hinge support area, but it is.
Worth investigating, regardless.

Another G-body's ~notorious~ problem is those fifteen ton doors.  Just
foreward of the mirror you'll find one or two cracks running from the
glass channel outward and down.  (Usually right about where the body
line comes up to meet the fender top.)  The wide chrome mouldings on the
doors can hide these somewhat, so make a point of digging deep there.
If you can't find any cracks there, look for signs of repair or
repaint.  Good doors are becoming increasingly rare.  Of my five mid
80's Cutlasses, I have three good doors.  Period.  These cracks come
from over-openning the doors, and putting too much force on the hinges.
(often by pulling the doors open all the way, you'll see the whole door
start to flex, especially noticeable in the glass channel, with the
window down.  You'll see the outer skin actually move in relation to the
inner door panel.  How much, depends on how bad the door is.

That should be enough to get you going, at least.  I'm sure there are
more things I'm missing, but that should keep ya busy for a couple hours
at least.  Certainly give you more of a feel for the car, if nothing
else.  Good luck, and be sure to get pictures of your new baby...  We'll
all want to see, ya know...  :)

               Charley Buehner -- The Oldsmobile Magnet
     mailto:buehner@lyrea.com       mailto:charley@rocketship.com
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner
            Sidney Montana

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 19:00:27 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: tranny

I have a 72 olds cutlass with a 350 2bbl carb ,I keep reading about the
th-400 and the th-350.Is this the kind of transmission used in this model of
car? what does the Th mean and what tranny would my olds have from the factory?
Ted Rollins
==============
Now with that said, a TH-350 CAN be built to be
virtually bulletproof too with less reciprocating weight than the 400.
=============
Hmmmm... what exactly is there in a TH350 or 400 that "reciprocates"?

Just for clarity... guess he meant "less rotational inertia" to load the
engine.
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 17:01:53 -0700
From: Charley Buehner <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Re: golf ball

> it from 1965. It is in a small blue and white box that says "drive the
> rocket action car", "Go where the action is", and has the rocket

Sounds like something worth hanging on to, for sure.  I've got an Olds
golf ball, too.  Came across it half a year ago.  It's got the new Olds
logo, with "Oldsmobile" right under it.  It's a Top Flight Z-Balata, for
any golf fans that know (or care) what that means...  A brand, anyway.
Your's definately sounds much cooler than this one, but I'm not planning
on letting anyone use this ever, regardless.

- --
               Charley Buehner -- The Oldsmobile Magnet
    mailto:buehner@lyrea.com       mailto:charley@rocketship.com
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner
        Sidney Montana

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 19:04:15 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: heat stove operation

The crappy little vacuum switch inside the air cleaner is likely shot. Last
time I priced one at GM dealer, it was $28.xx plus tax. I opted to go
without and leave the door open all the time. I can't really tell much -- if
any -- difference in warm-up time.  You be the judge as to what's for you.
roger hitson
- -----------------------
From: JohnMonnin@aol.com
Subject: Throttle Cable
I need a throttle cable for my 69 cutlass 2-barrel.  Anyone have one for sale?
I have been completely unsucessful in finding anyone who makes new cables, so
now I am desperate enough to buy used.
===============
RS:
That's why used but still useful [UBU]  parts are so great! That's why I and
others like me keep a vast stash of used cars for us to pick the bones clean,
like vultures on the savannah.

I send a list of parts cars later.
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 17:05:52 -0700
From: Charley Buehner <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Re: Head Identification - Odd Heads on 455BB

> olds FAQ page). The head on the passenger side is a "C" head (C cast at
> rear end of block) with a cast serial number of 394548, on the driver side
> its an "A" head (A cast at front end of block) with a cast serial number of
> 383821.
>

I'd been looking at a 67 Olds 98 for parts in Havre.  Has the original
425, with one C head, and one A head.  In the trunk, there is one
cracked C head.  Never pulled the rocker covers off to look deeper, but
I couldn't imagine it running properly.  As for the serial ª's, I have
no info to add.  I seem to remember someone reporting some A and/or B
heads were factory replacements on some cars.  Don't remember the
details, though.
- --
               Charley Buehner -- The Oldsmobile Magnet
For Me:  mailto:buehner@lyrea.com       mailto:charley@rocketship.com
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner
    Sidney Radio Shack:     mailto:redline_av@webtv.net
        Sidney Montana

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 18:57:26 -0500
From: MROTHE <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Emissions questions-non-olds (sorta long)

I'm frustrated.  I've been trying to get my 76 GMC truck with a H.O. 502
crate motor (but it's backed up by a 71 442 TH400)  to pass the
emissions test for Florida tags.  It comes up just short.  The deal is,
any 1975 or newer model must pass it.  Well, my truck ORIGINALLY had the
HD 454 (no emission controls at all).  Of course, passing emissions
wasn't that big of a concern since I had it in SC before.  However, now
it must pass it.  I've got headers, 2.5" exhaust, holley 750/vac
secondaries, 72 jets in front, and a Mallory unilite, set for 22 degrees
mech advance, and 14 degrees initial, with the vacuum can set for 12
degrees max advance.

My HC and CO are a bit high.  It could be due to too much advance in the
distributor, or too rich at idle.  Would it help to back off the timing,
thus keeping the exhaust hotter and cylinder pressures lower?  The
steamer part is, I don't have emissions checking equipment to make the
proper adjustments.  I'll probably have to take it to a shop for that.
(Gulp!)

I've heard about the trick of drilling a small hole in the throttle
blades to aid air intake, and I was wondering if this would make any
difference.  That's a trick usually reserved for big cams though.  I've
tried one of those Percy adjust-a-jet plates, but I'm not too sure I
like it.  After shutoff, and starting a short time later, it runs a few
seconds, then acts as nothing is passing through the idle circuit, and
to keep it running, I have to blip the throttle.  Then it will settle
out after a little bit.  I think the plate is causing that, since I've
never had the problem til I installed it.  Similar to boilover
conditions, but it's not.  Vapor lock isn't the issue, since I'm running
an electric fuel pump.  Hmmmm.

I was also thinking about getting a pair of those Dynomax Super
Converters to take some of the load of reduced emissions off the
engine.  Has anyone ever used these.  I'm getting very frustrated and
confused about this.  Any ideas folks?

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 19:09:18 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: sold the '70 CA body

Chris, I must have been asleep at the keyboard or the 70 is not a
Supreme.  I've been looking for a 70-72 Supreme body for a good while at
a reasonable price.  Is that what you had and I was asleep of did you
have the S style?  What were you asking for it if it was the Supreme
style?
==============
This was an S I think. Slopey back. 99% rustfree CA car needing very little to
finish, went to  Mr. Welsh for a sum that he can disclose if he wishes. Let's
just say, less than half what it would cost to fix typical rust on a car that
old.

- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 17:11:27 -0700
From: Charley Buehner <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Re: Just purchased a 455

> How does the headers effect turning radius? I had an '82 Gutlass w/455 and
cheapo >  headers (around $70) and had no problems with turning.

Really??!!??  I'm getting excited all over again.  As far as I've
researched, the big block Olds in the newer G-body required special
headers, as none other would ~fit~.  Hooker made (the only?) ones for
like $250 or so.  Cyl's 1 and 2 had to go outside the frame rail, (I
think those were the cylinders) which limited turning by 20 degrees or
so.  What headers are you using?  My 71 A-Body ones won't fit ~at all~
but I'm really interested now.  What were yours ~supposed~ to fit???

               Charley Buehner -- The Oldsmobile Magnet
For Me:  mailto:buehner@lyrea.com       mailto:charley@rocketship.com
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner
    Sidney Radio Shack:     mailto:redline_av@webtv.net
        Sidney Montana

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 17:18:07 -0700
From: Charley Buehner <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Re: Just purchased a 455

> 1.) You MUST swap the oil filter adapter from your 307 to the 455. The Toro
> engines used a funny forward angle one.
>
> 2.) You will have to use the starter from the 307 or purchase a rebuilt one
> for a 455 A-body. The Toros use a passenger side starter assm. The
> flexplates are the same.

Correct,  two very important details that I'd forgotten.  You'll also
need to do some extra exhaust mods to clear that bigger oil pan.  That
one caught me off guard and invoked quite a long spell of profanities
and wrench throwing....

> 6.) Install the water pump and pulley assm from the 307 to make sure all of
> them align. There are many variations of pulleys and water pump...

This part you'll need to experiment with a lot.  The A/C bracket
situation is the same on the other side of the block.  Except that big
block Olds's did use the same alternators and p/s pumps as small
blocks.  Some of the p/s hoses were different, though.  Your 307
brackets will not reach between the head and water pump on the big
block, so you'll need to rob those brackets.  Plan on taking some extra
time and patience in this step.  Put it all together on the stand
~before~ stuffing it in the engine, if for no other reason, to make
certain everything lines up right.  Like I said, you'll want to pack in
an extra six pack of patience on this step.

               Charley Buehner -- The Oldsmobile Magnet
For Me:  mailto:buehner@lyrea.com       mailto:charley@rocketship.com
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner
    Sidney Radio Shack:     mailto:redline_av@webtv.net
        Sidney Montana

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 18:21:43 -0000
From: "Lloyd W. Culp" <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Re: AL V8 motor

Robert,

I'd like to agree with Chris.  The engines are rare, but so are the cars.
Few need one.

You know that there are two of these engines besides the turbo model.  One
is a Buick/Pontiac which has dome like valve covers.  The Olds one has flat
topped valve covers with ribs.  Buick designed these but Olds has different
heads from the others.  The turbo one has a "T" in the serial number on a
flat section in front of the passenger head.

Bill Culp    bculp@HiWAAY.net
Decatur, Alabama
'62 Jetfire - '67 Toronado - '68 442 convertible


>From: "Robert Schinkel" <docbob@caninet.com>
>Subject: Re: 1962 F-85 w/ alum. engine
>Can I ask you a question about the 215 aluminum V8 ------- How much is one
>worth complete and is there a demand for these things.
>I found one and could pass my good deal onto someone else if they want.
>But the main question is what are they worth --- just the engine
>Robert Schinkel
>==============
>Well, I found one of these at Padnos one day. Ran home, looked up the ª of
the
>guy near Detroit who does these. Asked him. He said it was not worth it for
him
>to drive up to Lansing and pay $50 for one. OK. I didn't buy it. It's now
>scrap. If I see one again, I'd buy it just to have one in the stash- Padnos
>prolly sell it for $30-40 if I don't bother to tell 'em it's an ALUMINUM
motor
>I'm getting... but some days $30 seems like a lot to tie up for the next,
what,
>10 years? until someone needs one real bad. This was a 2V motor, too, I
guess
>the 4V motors are way rarer and thus more valuable.
>
>--
>Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 19:35:29 EST
From: KS7RACING@aol.com
Subject: Re: FS: 1985 Cutlass Salon

I have to agree with everyone's posts regarding the rust problem on the 78-up
Cutlasses. The "Metric"-framed cars have become a favorite at the local circle
tracks here, and the boneyards are fairly picked over. It's hard to find one
without trouble in the rear frame area. I remember helping a friend get a 78's
rear frame repaired so he could reattach the bumper!

Just a half-cent's worth of comment here,

Ken Snyder
Kansas City, Kansas

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 19:50:34 -0500
From: "W-MACHINES" <wmachine@en.com>
Subject: Re: Regarding Drool page comments

Cool Drool.  Hey, RC, you don't have to steal mine, I'll give them to you!

Kurt & Rose   wmachine@en.com
http://www.en.com/users/wmachine/wm.html
'65 Jetstar 1 4-speed                   '70 Toronado GT W-34 4-sale
'66 442 Sport Coupe 4-speed       '92 Achieva SCX W-41
'66 442 F-85 Deluxe factory L-69  '90 Trofeo

- ----------
> From: RC Hellebuyck <mrhell@sprynet.com>
> To: Olds e-mail List <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Subject: Regarding Drool page comments
> Date: Sunday, February 01, 1998 11:27 AM
>
> Thanks to everyone who gave complements regarding my Olds Drool Page.
I'm
> glad it's being enjoyed!  Since my efforts weren't in vain, I'll be
adding
> more and more goodies as I "steal" pictures from other web sites and
books
> etc.  So y'all come back and visit ya hear?  (not too bad for a guy with
a
> MI accent huh?)
>
> 8>)
>
> RC Hellebuyck
> 1971 4-4-2 covt. - see it at:
> 1995 Achieva S
>
> http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/mrhell/
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 19:49:50 EST
From: KS7RACING@aol.com
Subject: Re: Fuel Pumps - Manual Vs Electric

Scott,

I think it would be a toss-up on which one's better. The only thing I might
recommend would be to look at putting in a switch that would cut off the
electric pump if oil pressure drops off, so if the engine stalls you won't be
trying to overload the needle and seat with pressurized fuel. My 80 Starfire
has an electric pump from the factory (in-tank) and they have a special oil
pressure switch that also shuts off the fuel pump if that happens. It's good
insurance against having TOO much fuel in a delicate place - near all those
sparks and heat.

Just suggestin',

Ken Snyder
Kansas City, Kansas

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 19:48:40 -0500
From: "W-MACHINES" <wmachine@en.com>
Subject: Re: golf ball

Olds was involved with golf in '65.  There is also a magazine  ad for the
442 in '65 with a golf reference.

Kurt & Rose   wmachine@en.com
http://www.en.com/users/wmachine/wm.html
'65 Jetstar 1 4-speed                   '70 Toronado GT W-34 4-sale
'66 442 Sport Coupe 4-speed       '92 Achieva SCX W-41
'66 442 F-85 Deluxe factory L-69  '90 Trofeo

- ----------
> From: Larry Martino <lmmsr@flash.net>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: golf ball
> Date: Sunday, February 01, 1998 1:17 PM
>
> When I was born, my grandfather gave me an oldsmobile golf ball. He kept
> it from 1965. It is in a small blue and white box that says "drive the
> rocket action car", "Go where the action is", and has the rocket emblem
> on the top and Olds 1965 (and another rocket emblem) on the bottom. The
> ball itself just has two rocket emblems on it. Is there any value to
> this besides sentimental? The box and ball are in very good shape
> besides some yellowing in the color of the ball.
>
> Lars
> 1971 Cutlass conv.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 19:46:14 -0500
From: "W-MACHINES" <wmachine@en.com>
Subject: Re: Joined OCA

I think you'll be glad you did.  Good for you and good for Oldsmobile!

Kurt & Rose   wmachine@en.com
http://www.en.com/users/wmachine/wm.html
'65 Jetstar 1 4-speed                   '70 Toronado GT W-34 4-sale
'66 442 Sport Coupe 4-speed       '92 Achieva SCX W-41
'66 442 F-85 Deluxe factory L-69  '90 Trofeo

- ----------
> From: RC Hellebuyck <mrhell@sprynet.com>
> To: Olds e-mail List <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Subject: Joined OCA
> Date: Sunday, February 01, 1998 11:10 AM
>
> I took the "plunge" and joined OCA.  Still waiting for my ª and my first
> copy of JWO.
>
> RC Hellebuyck
> OCA ª(in progress)   Now I get to add this line.  8>)
> 1971 4-4-2 covt. - see it at:
> 1995 Achieva S
>
> http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/mrhell/
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 19:45:35
From: Chris Cromwell <tncrom@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: new seats

Here's what I did.....

bought seat covers from Year 1, had them put on by a pro.  Looks good.  Did
this atleast 4 years ago and they're holding up well.  I had the
upholsterer also fix a couple of the seat springs in the driver's seat
since they had broken; the fix essentially was to add a coil spring at the
broken points.  The only thing I didn't like was the way the headrest
covers looked, but overall am satisfied with how things turned out.

bye...

Chris
71 Custlass Supreme convertible, 350 (Auburn, AL)

  At 11:40 PM 1/31/98 -0600, you wrote:
>I desperatly need new back seats in my 71 cutlass conv. What would be
>the best thing to do, buy seat covers, or have them redone by a pro? Do
>the seat covers look okay? What is the most economical?
>
>
>Lars
>1971 Cutlass conv.
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 18:56:50 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: G-body interchangeability with Buick

On Fri, 30 Jan 1998, Gerald Hughes wrote:

> Guys,
> It's only a hood.  Take the 30 minutes to actually try it and stop
> guessing.  Sheez.
> Gerald Hughes
>
Hey Gerald!
I've had my hood off four thousand times and realize it's nothing, but I
don't happen to have a GN hood lying around to try with.  Cheese.





>
> BIGJERMES@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > In a message dated 98-01-29 04:01:12 EST, you write:
> >
> > << I'm wondering about putting a T-type Buick hood on my 87 Cutlass.  Do 
the
> >  lines match up alright?  I better get rid of that 3.8 SFI stuff though.
> >  Maybe 6.7 BMF. >>
> >
> > well, i wondered the same thing a while back.  so i measured the 2 lines
going > > up the hood, and they are spaced the same as mine.  course, i was
measuring a > > '79 turbo buick, and i have a '78 cutlass.  id say they will
swap out.  but > > dont hold me to that. >

Ray finally driving the 409 Rocket again Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 19:08:52 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Trivia

Many of you I'm sure know this, but I just noticed last night in an old
Car Craft that the 307 was the last carbureted GM V8 to exist.  That's
cool I suppose.

Ray since the car is running perfect, the stereo stopped working Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 21:08:57 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: Priming Fuel to Pump

Does anyone have a good method of pulling/pushing fuel from gas tank to the
fuel pump? I have reinstalled tank after cleaning and sealing it, as well as
the fuel line. Before firing up the new engine I would like to have fuel to
the pump immediately. I am in the process of adding new fuel lines and filters
in the engine compartment.      ( with 3 carbs, plumbing is significant in
this car)  I am betting that someone has had a memorable or Witt-less
experience with this. Fire away!  Randy in Oklahoma

Would holding the pedal to the floor, as if to flood it, work? Jerry
Christopher
====================
1- holding pedal to the floor is to CURE flooding, not CAUSE it.

2- to get fuel thru the lines, the Olds service manual says to make a vacuum
inducing device out of fuel line, blow air in at an angle so it ends up going
the direction you want the fuel to go. Sounds messy to me. You can blow a SMALL
amount of air into the tank- in the return line, or in the fill hole using a
rag as a seal- watch tank for a SMALL amount of "ballooning". That works well.
Lung pressure will even do that, often.
  Then again, as long as a [the?] carb is full of fuel- easy to do thru the
vent tube- that will run it plenty long enough to get the FP up-n-primed.

3- "Witt-less"? what's up w/ that? Is that an insult or a compliment?
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 19:12:35 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: GN/SS/442 Exhaust on  a "Y" 307

On Fri, 30 Jan 1998, Thomas Martin wrote:

> Are the Grand National/442/Monte Carslo SS exhaust after the cat
> interchangeable?  Are the catalytics the same, or at least have the same
> output flange?  The local parts store exhaust guide says the 442 and "Y"
> 307 cars from 81-88 have 2.25 in exhaust.  I have seen aftermarket stuff
> for the GN saying 2.25 in.  I am looking for a dual exhaust after the
> cat setup that is not a big expense.  I need an exhaust and I might as
> well ditch the restrictive single I have.
>
> I did note that the 442 and "Y" list the same cat in their book, but the
> 442 "9" showed a different pipe from the manifold to the cat.  Does this
> sound right?
>
> Has anyone had any experience with aftermarket exhaust for the G-Body?
>
> Thanks!
> Thomas Martin
> 85 Cutlass Supreme Rocket 350 CCC
>
I put the Ypipe dual exhaust on an 86 I used to have and it was a factory
Walker 442 exhaust set-up, from the cat. back.  I also smashed out the
inside of the cat. with a long heavy screwdriver and hammer for that extra
4.6 horsepower.  Then, with the internals I made some jewelry and sold it
to tourists in Mexico.  With the money made there I bought some codiene
cough syrup and sold it at a high school in Nebraska.  With that money, I
bought an 87 Cutlass.



Ray since the car is running perfect, the stereo stopped working Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 19:10:23 -0700
From: Charley Buehner <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Re: Drool Page Continued!

> Hmmmm, not tired yet so I added more cars.   Think I'll add even more later.
> 8>)

"Downdated" my pages back to the ~old~ format tonight, got my car show
links back.  Found pictures I'd previously lost, etc.  RC, check 'em out
and grab what ya want.  For time constraints, (and missing pictures) I
put the Pace car on the front.  You'll see what I mean...  That one's
not mine (dammit!!!)  I've got more pics of ~that~ somewhere.  Check 'em
out again, and swipe what ya want.  ~Most~ of the pics on there I have
~real~ copies of them, so if they're grainy, whatever, I can re-scan if
wanted.  I'll have to do some more digging, but this gives ya a few more
to look at...


- --
               Charley Buehner -- The Oldsmobile Magnet
For Me:  mailto:buehner@lyrea.com       mailto:charley@rocketship.com
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner
    Sidney Radio Shack:     mailto:redline_av@webtv.net
        Sidney Montana

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 21:17:39 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: Ford Tools

     Oh yeah, does anybody have an easy way of removing the
radio/heater control trim on a 81-88 Cutlass without damaging it?
Hopefully it won't involve a block of wood and a hammer :) (are you
listening Chris?) John Pajak
================
Eh? What?
Hey, proper application of the Ford Tool *does* have its place. In removing
mirrors, it sure beats the heck out of ruining the screws with hex keys &
screwdrivers.
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 21:22:31 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: roller cams

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:41:19 -0500
From: "Michael A. Evans" <evans1@net-link.net>
Subject: 455 Roller Cams

Does anyone have any experiences *good or bad* running a roller cam setup
in a 455?
================
I just spoke with a guy who is running a 425 with a roller cam. Blew up his
motor, due to "ballooning" the tork converter... said he's running over 600 HP
out of the motor, naturally aspirated. They work.
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 19:24:16 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: To hell with the 200-4R's!

My detent cable broke off of my TH350 during a cross-country cruise a
couple weeks ago. I figured it wasn't that big of a deal if I didn't mind
having no "passing gear" downshifts or buying trans fluid at every gas
stop.  After arriving at my destination I had the cable replaced (after
seeing where the cable hooks in and getting the price to have it done, I
decided against the frustration).  As it turns out, even with the constant
adding of fluid, the trans was still 4(!) quarts(!!) low!!!  Now, it's all
filled up ad shiftin strong again.  So, apparently I drove 2700 miles with
a dehydrated transmission (please keep snide remarks to youself) and the
TH350 laughed it off.  This transmission kicks ass and it has all of my
resoect and loyalty now.  Plus, the 200-4R swap quote I got was $1400.
Can't afford that, when I can, the TH350 will lose my loyalty.

Ray since the car is running perfect, the stereo stopped working Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 21:24:57 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: regal hood swap?

>         It's only a hood.  Take the 30 minutes to actually try it and stop
> guessing.  Sheez.

And how many $$$ to buy it from the junkyard ~before~ you find out if it
works????    :)   Charley Buehner --
===========
BUY? Who said anything about BUYing it? If you're at the boneyard anyhow, just
take a hood to the other kind of car, try it, note the results, and leave it
there.
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 19:32:10 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Tricarb 442 for sale

On Sat, 31 Jan 1998, Michael A. Evans wrote:

> Saw this ad today:
>
> '66 Oldsmobile 442, 400 tripower, 4-speed, posi, solid, Cutlass chrome
> rims, original spoked hubcaps, 39,000 miles, $4500 firm.  (810) 781-3953,
> Shelby Township (Detroit area).
>
> Not mine, don't know the people, just saw the ad.  I do, however, request a
> ride as a finder's fee!
Don't want to buy the car, but where'd they hook up with the intake for
tri-power?  On a 400?  Does such an intake exist?  And won't it fit on the
small blocks too?  What?



>
>

Ray since the car is running perfect, the stereo stopped working Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 21:41:52 -0500
From: "Proietto, Fernando [Ontario]" <Fernando.Proietto@ec.gc.ca>
Subject: RE: Power Windows

Getting the windows down is easy. Find the main wire going to he power
side of the motor. I believe that the re with black stripe is it. Just
make a connection using a 12 volt battery and the window motor will
engage depending on which wire you use. If you get the correct wire on
the harness the motor will go down. No harm will come to the unit as I
have  had them out on my car before and have tried them on 12 volts
after disassembly.

> ----------
> From: DROLDS350@aol.com[SMTP:DROLDS350@aol.com]
> Sent: Saturday, January 31, 1998 9:58 PM
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Cc: DROLDS350@aol.com
> Subject: Power Windows
>
> I have the doors off of my car and they have power windows. How can I
> get the
> windows down? Can I hook the window wires up to a battery, or would it
> blow
> the power window motor. I had the car out during the winter and I had
> to have
> the windows up, but now I am doing the restoration and I would like to
> get the
> windows down.
> Does anyone out there know where I can get a good set of window felts?
> I have
> read that there is a bad kind and a good kind. Is this true?
>
> Jim
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 22:25:15 -0500
From: dave <dave70ss@ici.net>
Subject: stripes

i need some info on my hood
i have a 72 hood with louvers on it
i believe it is a 442 hood without the w-30 package but not sure
does anyone know the correct striping for this hood
i have seen two different stripe configurations
the hardtop was a little different from the convertible
i dont have the dual scooped hood which has the thick stripes
on the - i think this is the w-30 hood
any help is appreciated
dave

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 22:28:00 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: option codes [bs]

Some option codes you might NOT find in your "official" books...

Z07- headliner that falls down after a few years
S21- starter solenoid that refuses to work when hot
WHY- many varieties, the hood pin holes being my favorite.
B00- rear bumper that falls off after about 7 years [only a MI thing?]
R13- the 2x6 replacement for the rear bumper
H21- the '68-only option that allows the hood to open only partially,
      ensuring that you bang your head at least once per repair.
A59- the axle that breaks off, leaving your wheel & hub to pass you.
C05- non-working clock

that's all I can think of now, it's late...
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 22:35:12 -0500
From: m-hanneman@onu.edu
Subject: Re: FS: 1985 Cutlass Salon

>Speaking of that, as most of you already know (if not, you've heard it
>here first), I have an '85 442. Only thing is, I bought it new, and it
>has led a pampered life.



Well Mike,

I also have a 85 442.  It has 144,000 miles on it and still runs GREAT!!!
The only problem I am having with mine is that the floor of my trunk has
rusted through above the wheel well.  This is not noticeable unless you
lift up the carpet.  When I bought the car I had no idea, everything looked
great.  I have not had the time to mess with it yet, as for the car is my
daily driver, (until this summer at least).  I don't know if this will help
you any, but that is what I have experienced.

Matt Hanneman
85 442

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 19:45:43 -0800
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Re: Super Shops

The one in Huntington Beach CA is still open - they didn't have any
shifters left & they said most of the Ch*vy 350 & BB stuff is gone.  They
told me there wouldn't be much of a problem finding Olds stuff however (a
little sardonically).  They'll be open 4-6 weeks more.

They're on Harbor Boulevard at Adams Street.


Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, CA

'64 Cutlass, '66 Toronado, '67 Delta 88 Custom, '69 Toronado, '72 Vista
Cruiser (twin hauler)

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://server.exo.com/~jht/olds/

Subscribe To : Lisa's Classic Oldsmobile Bulletin Board Mailing List:
Glass Line's Bulletin Board: http://server.exo.com/~jht/olds/oldsbbs/index.cgi

Lisa's Oldsmobile FREE Banner Exchange
http://server.exo.com/~jht/olds/banners/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 19:54:47 -0800
From: Rick Amado <rickamado@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel Pumps - Manual Vs Electric

I have a 60 Super 88 (394)and had the same fuel pump bomb on my car... I ended
up with a Holley street pump, (I don't recall the model number) it runs about 7
psi and I've been running it on my car (it's a daily driver) for about 3 years
now and have yet to have a problem. I installed a hipo 350 about 2 years ago
and the same pump handles the fuel delivery with no problem whatsoever.  I
strongly reccomend this conversion. BTW I hooked mine up with a hidden switch
for theft protection and it goes about a block before it runs out of gas.  R

Scott wrote:

> And now for my second question for the day.....
>
> My fathers olds (60 - 371) has just had the fuel pump pack it in. We have
> looked in the Fusick catalogue and they list change over units so getting a
> replacement should not be a major problem hopefully.
>
> What we were considering was forgetting the manual pump and going for an
> electric unit, cost wise its going to be about the same as the manual but
> we were thinking that the electric should make starting after a week or two
> of no use that little bit easier. Up until now starting after a week or so
> of sitting in the shed requires a manual prime or a fair amount of cranking
> to suck the fuel up.
>
> I would be interested to hear any one elses experience with their electric
> conversion before we decide to go one way or the other.
>
> Scott
> 60 Olds Dynamic 88 Coupe

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 22:20:26 -0600
From: Larry Martino <lmmsr@flash.net>
Subject: Re: new seats

Joe & Toni Artwell wrote:
>
> Larry,
>   Here is a picture of what they looked like. Hope the quality is good
> enough. The fronts aren't done yet. Can you guess what the red car is
> next to it?
>                       Joe
>
>     --------------------------------------------------------------


Thanks for the help to all those who responded. Joe and Toni Artwell:
the interior of your car is absolutely beautiful. Are those Vinyl seats?
Doesn't look like it. As for the car in the back, it would be impossible
for me to guess that, although the door handle does look like one from
an oldsmobile (just like my '71....).

Larry
1971 Cutlass conv.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 23:15:34 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: anyone familier with valve spring instalation

>> I'm trying to put new valvesprings on my 455.  The installed height is
>> supposed to be 1.45".  I'm thinking I compress the spring onto the head and
>> measure it.  If its too big I remove the spring, put a shim under it and
>> remeasure.  Repeat as necessary till all 16 are set.  Am I thinking correct
>> here?  Anything I should know, or is it that straight forward?

You could, but what would you be measuring it with? You'd get just about the
same reading with no spring in there, just your hand holding up the
retainer. In fact, if you really want to check it as installed, go to a
hardware store and get a light spring (or a part of a spring) of
approximately the same diameter as the valvespring, and install the retainer
with that. Easier and quicker, and will yield the same reading.

There are micrometers for this specific job, but not really necessary for a
street motor, where the wear on the springs will affect the valvespring
pressure more than the installed height will. Just watch for coil bind with
shims in there.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 23:15:37 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Just purchased a 455

>1972 Toro 455 from Everett Horton.  I can't wait to drop this beast in my
 [snip]
>ª1. There is a rubber mount toward the front of this engine by the oil pan.
> I'm assuming this is a Toro specific mount and I can toss it for my
>application. Am I correct?

Yes, but the U-shaped saddle mount also bolts on to the front of the timing
cover; you'll have to pull the balancer out a bit (not necessary to remove
it all the way; just enough to back out the bolts) with a puller to get the
bolts out of there.

>ª2.  Looking at the front of the engine, to the left and down from the oil
 [snip]
>my 307 in my chasis manual.  Is this the fuel pump?

Yes, it is; your 307 doesn't have a fuel pump? Look in the fuel-system
section; main engine section wouldn't necessarily cover it.

>ª3.  In front of the distributer there are two rubber hoses coming off the
>manifold. Both have white writing on them, one says: 1/4 id fuel vapor
>other says : Gas - LI
>What are these for?  There's nothing similar on my 307.

Those are vacuum lines, where the original rubber hoses have been replaced
with some generic rubber hoses. The 1/4" line likely went to the HVAC
controls, while the 3/8" "Gas - LI[NE]" would go to the vacuum booster. You
can probably just hook up the existing hoses in your car to these connectors.

>ª4.  Can I use the starter from my 307 on the 455?

Yes, but you wouldn't want to; less torque, and shorter life. The Toro
starter would have been nice (I've heard the snout can be changed to the RWD
type), but that wasn't included, was it?

Tell the guys at the parts counter that you want a starter for a '72 Cultass
455- that'll net you a high-torque starter, and many places sell these for
about $40 with a lifetime warrantee. Return as a core whatever your
conscience dictates....

>Finally ª5.  The coolant drain bolts in the block, are they to the side of
>and below the freeze plugs?  I can't seem to find this info in my service
>manual.

Chuck has already pointed out their location; nice idea is to replace the
9/16" headed plugs with some drain petcocks (1/4" NPT fitting, I believe);
makes draining the engine easier. May have to bend the ears on the fitting
for clearance.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 23:40:43 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: 72 To 455 => 85

[[w/ my stuff in brackets- RS]]

From: "deirdre. reilly" <102724.635@compuserve.com>

Well, today I joined the big leagues of serious horsepower.  I purchased a
1972 Toro 455 from Everett Horton.  I can't wait to drop this beast in my
'85 Cutlass!!

[[ aaargh! more power! Don't forget the cooling system, trans, and diff
upgrades if need be! ]]

I've been looking through my '85 Chasis manual as well as my Cutlass for
similarities but I'm left with a few questions, since I'm not very familiar
with the BB Olds.  I'm thinking of buying a chasis manual for the 72 motor,
but until I do that I was hoping I could fire out some questions to the
list.

[[ it's exactly like the small block, only different! Larger stroke, bigger
valves (typically), wider intake manifold. ]]

ª4.  Can I use the starter from my 307 on the 455?
- ----------
You ~can~ if you want to.  Odds are good the 455 would be better, though
(If it's there and in serviceable condition) simply because the 455 is
so much more motor to turn.  Not sure on that, the 307 may have just as
strong of a starter.  Either way, they should interchange just fine.  As
will the solenoids.
- -----------
You will have to use the starter from the 307 or purchase a rebuilt one
for a 455 A-body. The Toros use a passenger side starter assm. The
flexplates are the same.

[[ Well, the Toro starters are usually wound better- longer field coils and
subtle internal winding differences that we need not get into here/now. Best
bet: either get a rebuilt one for something like a '70 442, or swap your
307-starter nosepiece onto the toro starter motor. There just might be a
difference in the yoke that moves the pinion, but if so, we can find you the
correct pieces. National Automotive Lines, e.g. ]]

3.) The Toro engines use a sunken intake manifold that flows like crap, but
allows more hood clearance.
- ---------------

[[ Yeah, "like crap." That must be why that 112,000 mile old Toro 425,
unmolested, unopened, changing only the water pump, with its original carb on
its original intake, running the original 66 Toro cam...... shaved a FULL 
SECOND
off the race car's BEST time that it ever ran with the 30 cid larger '69 Toro
455 with its big valve C's, Torker intake, Holley 750 carb, aftermarket cam.
Must be the sucky FLOW of that LAME-ASS toro intake, huh? 'Cause, you know,
with the Holley [ooooooooh!] carb and the Torker intake, the car woulda been
sooooo fast that it would get to the finish line *before* it left the start
line! Right? Heh. Flow like crap, indeed! No offense, Mr. Chermack! Just my
differing experience- it might very well gain him needed hood clearance.]]

Finally ª5.  The coolant drain bolts in the block, are they to the side of
and below the freeze plugs?  I can't seem to find this info in my service
manual.

[[ close enough. You might want to drill/tap the other boss if the one now used
will be covered by your motor mounts. I like to put tiny petcocks in there to
facilitate block draining- doubles the conveninece factor easily. ]]
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 00:03:24 -0500
From: James & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Subject: 66 98 For Sale

To All

        A friend of mine has a very nice 66 Ninety Eight LS 4 door sedan for
sale. Newer engine (350)  has original 425, TH400, P/windows (all work),
P/seat (works), Gold with a black interior and vinyl top. Drives very nice.
Super clean body (NO RUST) with original paint (except LH fender). Has new
vinyl top to go with it. Needs head liner and Front seat done to be perfect.
Nice chrome.  $1800.00 OBO.

Dave Schuenke (Days)
(757)473-0134
or
Jim Chermack (Nights)
(757)474-0869

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 23:53:35 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: HID lights available cheap

Got another JCWhitney catalog the other day. Nice new item... pair of HID
lights, with ballast & everything, all for only.....

$1300 or so.

Wow, get 'em while you can, eh? Put 'em on that $43,000 Cutlass that was in
JWO, etc.
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 00:17:11 EST
From: DrkSole@aol.com
Subject: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca

In a message dated 98-02-01 23:41:25 EST, you write:

<< oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca >>
<<Please make a note - my friend & I are looking for a solid '72 Vista
Cruiser tailgate - although I'm sure any wagon would work ~ possibly from
'68-'72.  Should all be basically the same, what could change?  Tailights
are all separate from the tailgates on these beasties.>>

I just saw a 72 Vista in a junkyard I was at today, I don't remember what the
tailgait looked like, but the wagon seemed pretty solid, had a nice gold 350,
the carb looked brand new.. I can check on the tailgate next saturday, if
you'd like..

DrkSole
73 Cutlass Supreme
67 Delta 88 Custom

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 23:45:07 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: valve spring shimming

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 14:40:45 -0500
From: Rotten <olds442@en.com>
Subject: anyone familier with valve spring instalation

> I'm trying to put new valvesprings on my 455.  The installed height is
> supposed to be 1.45".  I'm thinking I compress the spring onto the head and
> measure it.  If its too big I remove the spring, put a shim under it and
> remeasure.  Repeat as necessary till all 16 are set.  Am I thinking correct
> here?  Anything I should know, or is it that straight forward?

Thanks,  Ken.
=================
Wow, 1.45" are you sure? I thought most were 1.670", is that just the older
bb's I am used to? Anyhow, assemble w/o spring to ck height- measure bottom of
retainer to lower spring seat- telescoping gages & mic is the RIGHT way, but
you can do it other ways almost as accurately. Much less hassle to assemble w/o
the big spring in there. Oh, and one measure should get you the number for the
shim(s) you need. Then just assemble w/ the needed shims.

- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 23:50:43 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: 68 motor ID ª's

From: Ridn88@aol.com
Subject: i.d.numbers

hey guys i need some help. got these numbers of the oil fill tube.of my 68 455
8375883.can anybody tell me what they mean? also my heads have the letter C
above the first bolt hole on each head.does this mean they are C heads and if
it does what are the specs on them. by the way the motor is out of a 68 delta
88 2dr in case you need to know for the information. any information will be
greatly appreciated.
- ------------------------------
8xxxxxx= a 1968 motor, but you knew that already, huh?

8375883= engine ª375883 or maybe 275883 off whatever line it came off of that
year, if they started with first unit marked 100001 which is not uncommon.

C heads, yep, best you can get for cheap. What specs? Mondello's Tech manual
lists flow figures. A few.

Oh, a *2-door* motor, why didn't you SAY SO?!!! Heh just kidding.

Really, a carb ª and/or dist'r number would help most in further evaluating
this motor.

- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 23:54:53 -0500
From: James & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Subject: FOR SALE: Parts 64-72 Cutlass/442/Toro

                                          C&M Classic Parts
                       1132 Chatmoss Drive, Virginia Beach, VA 23464
                                (757)474-0869, FAX (757)474-0694
                                         <chermac@exis.net>

Hours:  Mon-Fri  6:00 pm - 10:00 pm,  Sat 9:00 am - 6:00 pm,  Sunday Closed
*We accept all major Credit Cards. VISA, M/C, Amer. Express, and Discover.*
Lots of new reproduction parts will be coming out in January-March 98.
We will be vending at the Spring Charlotte Auto Fair at the Charlotte Motor
Speedway on 2-5 Apr.

        66 W-30 Shrouds (stamped steel, chromed) $1795.00
        67 W-30 Shrouds (stamped steel, chromed) $995.00
        66 & 67 Track Pac kits (complete, just like the dealer option includes;
        shroud, ducts, hoses, cam/lifters, battery accessories) Apr/May 98.

        69-72 "W" and "Z" exhaust manifold sets (NEW) Fall 98

New reproduction parts:
Convertible Top Boots (Correct Grains for each different year)  $85.00ea
64  Black, Red, Lt. Blue, Fawn, Saddle, Turqoise, White
65  Same as 64
66-67 Black, Red, Light Blue, Med. Blue, Bronze, Turqoise, White, Gold
68-72 Black, Red, Parchment, Lt. Blue, Teal Blue, Green Gold, Gold, Pearl,
Dk Blue, Dk. Green, Lt. Green, Lt. Saddle, Dk Saddle, Olive Green, Royal
Blue, White, Sandalwood,

Molded Carpet Sets  $95.00
64-67 - (Black, Red, Med. Blue, Turquoise, Gold, Dk. Blue, Maroon)
68-72 - (Black, Red, Maroon, Turqoise, Gold, Dk. Blue, Med. Blue, Dk. Green,
Green Gold, Lt. Green, Teal Blue, Saddle, Sandalwood)
73-77 - (Same as 68-72 except Green Gold)

Door Panels  64-72 $Inquire

Seat Covers  64-72 $Inquire

Vinyl Dash Overlays (makes your wood dash areas look like carbon fiber)
$50.00 set

Lifetime Guarantee on all correct bead window felts  $92.00 set (inner & outer)
66-67 2 dr Hardtop/Conv Window Felts (correct bead type)
68-72 2 dr Hardtop/Conv Window Felts (not Supreme Coupes, correct bead)

Replacement Window Felts (Flat type)  $60.00 set (inner & outer)
64-72 Cutlass/442 (state year and model)

Glove Box Liners
64-67 Glovebox Liner w/clips  $15.99
68-69 Glovebox Liner w/clips  $15.99
70-72 Glovebox Liner w/clips  $15.99

Qrt Seals
70-72 Cutlass Supreme & Conv Qtr End seals  $13.00 pr

Hood Insulation
64-65 Cutlass/442 Hood Liner  (w/clips)  $18.00
66 Cutlass/442 Hood Liner  (w/clips)  $18.00
67 Cutlass/442 Hood Liner  (w/clips)  $18.00
68-70 Cutlass/442 Hood Liner (wclips)  $18.00
70-72 Cutlass Supreme Hood Liner (w/clips)  $18.00
73-77 Cutlass $28.00

Liner Clips
Round Clips  $1.00 ea
Square Clips  $1.00 ea

A-Arm Shields
68-72 Upper A-Arm dust shields  $14.99 pr

3M Stripe Kits
68 W-36 Stripe Kits (white, black, red)  $55.00 pr

New Parts:
73-77 Omega Floor Shift Tilt  $65.00
75 Omega Console (auto)  $40.00
72 Delta 88/ Ninety Eight Owners Manual (nice) $5.00
68 RH Headlight Bucket (nice)  $65.00 ea
66-67 Rear Window Molding Sets  $40.00 set
66-67 330 4 bbl Intake Manifold  $30.00
66 F-85 Deluxe Dash Emblem (nice)  $5.00
66 F-85 Trunk Lid Molding  $35.00
70-72 Vista Cruiser Tailgates Switch Bezels (mint)  $5.00 ea
69 Turn Signal Lens (nice)  $25.00 pr
69 Full Hubcaps (nice)  $35.00 set
64-65 Valve Covers (indented type)  $35.00 pr
68-72 Manual Trans Flywheel  $75.00
330/350 10.5 in x 10 spline Clutch Kits includes Pressure plate, disc,
throwout bearing, alignment tool. (all NEW pieces)  $130.00
400/455 11.0 in x 10 spline Clutch Kits same as above (all NEW pieces)  $135.00
71-72 OAI Hood (very nice orig.)  $1000.00
70-72 OAI Breather assm (nice orig., complete)  $550.00
71-72 W-30 Aluminum Intake Manifold (nice)  $650.00
70-75 Sport Steering Wheel (black, nice centers, complete)  $130.00 ea
Small Block Cylinder Heads ª4 (67) $100, ª7 (71),  ª7a (72) $115 pr
Big Block Cylinder Heads  "B" (66) $250 pr, "C" (67) $275 pr, "G" (71) $125 pr,
"H" (71 W-30) $1500 pr.
68-69 Jetaway Trans (very low miles, not a switchpitch)  $90.00
64-68 4 Spd Console Top Plate and Door (fair to good cond, w/nice boot)  $50.00
64-66 Master Cylinders (correct, rebuilt)  $43.50 ea
3&4 Spd. Pilot Bushing (Bronze) new  $7.50 ea
3&4 Spd. HD Roller Pilot Bearing new  $24.50 ea
75 Omega Front Fenders (very nice pair)  $180.00 pr
75 Omega Bucket Seats (nice, maroon cloth)  $85.00 pr
65-67 425 "D" Block std bore, small lifter bore  $100.00
66-67 442 "E" 400 block (std bore)  $250.00 ea
65-67 400/425 Steel Crank (needs turning, std) $180.00
65-67 400/425 Rods (1 set)  $150.00 set
64-67 Power Steering Bracket  $15.00
64-67 Alternator Brackets (A/C car)  $20.00 set
69-72 4 Row Radiator Top Plate (nice)  $65.00
69-72 Ignition Switch (w/o tilt)  *new*  $24.00
69-72 Ignition Switch (w/tilt) *new*  $22.00
67-68 Big Cars AM/FM Stereo (nice, works well)  $75.00
69-72  Bench Seat Headrests (black, mint)  $45.00 pr
68-72 Arm Rest Pad Bases (rear, post coupe, black)  $20.00 pr
69-70 Console Shift Steering Column (non-tilt)  $95.00
64-72 Power Window Motors  (excellent cond) $50.00 ea
70-72 455 Engine Mount (NEW, made in USA)  $40.00 pr
64-67 330 / 68-72 350 Engine Mount (NEW, Made in USA)  $38.00 pr
64-72 Jetaway/TH350, 4 Spd Trans Mount (NEW, made in USA)  $14.00
67-72 TH400 Trans Mounts (NEW, made in USA)  $17.00 ea


New Old Stock (N.O.S.) Parts 1964-1972 Cutlass/442
64-72 Clutch Inspection covers (N.O.S.)  $22.00 ea
83-87 Hurst/Olds&442 (N.O.S.) Exhaust System (complete)  $450.00
83-84 Hurst/Olds (N.O.S.) Lightning Rod Whiskers  $150.00
68-72+ TH Torque Converter Cover (Plastic, N.O.S.)  $31.00 ea
65 Cutlass/442 PO2 Deluxe Wheelcovers (N.O.S.)  $300.00 set
66-72 SSI Center Caps (N.O.S.) $36.50 ea
68-75 SSII/III Center Caps (N.O.S.) $36.50 ea
69 Cutlass RH Grilles (N.O.S.) $85.00 ea
70 Cutlass Supreme Grilles (N.O.S.)  $120.00 pr
70-72 LH Coupe/Conv Door Skin (N.O.S.)  $200.00
71-72 Turn Signal Lens (N.O.S.)  $90.00 pr
71-72 Stone Shields (N.O.S.) $38.00 ea
71-72 Headlight Housings (plastic) (N.O.S.) $80.00 pr
72 Cutlass Supreme & Hurst/Olds Grilles (N.O.S.)  $120.00 pr

Used Parts:
64 Cutlass/442
64-66 Auto Floor Shifter (T handle type, complete minus T )  $50.00
RH Headlight Bezel  $15.00
Front Bumper Core  $50.00
F-85 Fender Emblem (nice)  $5.00

65 Cutlass/442
64-66 Auto Floor Shifter (T handle type, complete minus T )  $50.00
65 Cutlass/442 Wheelwell Moldings  LH/RH rear $15.00 ea
65-(early) 66 Plain Full Wheel Covers (4, mint)  $30.00

66 Cutlass/442
64-66 Auto Floor Shifter (T handle type, complete minus T )  $50.00
66 Cutlass Trunk Molding (very good)  $75.00
66 Cutlass Tail Light Bezels (very good)  $85.00 pr
65-(early) 66 Plain Full Wheel Covers (4, mint)  $30.00 set
66 Turbine Full Wheel Covers (4) good  $50.00 set
66 Cutlass/442 Side Chrome moldings (almost complete set) Inquire
66 F-85/Cutlass grille (nice)   $55.00
66 F-85/Cutlass grille (good)  $35.00
66-67 AM Radios (nice)  $30.00 ea
66/67 Repro Radio Delete Plates (perfect repro)  $40.00
66/67 Repro Heater Delete Plates  (perfect repro)  $40.00  ($78.00 set)
66 Cutlass/442 Headlight Bezels  $50.00 pr
Post Coupe Exterior A-Pillar Chrome Moldings  $15.00 pr
F-85/Cutlass Taillight Lens  $10.00 ea

67 Cutlass/442
67 330/320 hp 4bbl engine (complete)  $200.00
67 4 spd Speedometer Adapter (3.42 gears & 4spd)  $45.00
67 Cutlass Plain Full Hubcaps (4, mint)  $30.00
67 Plain Cutlass Holiday Hardtop interior door panels and rear sides (very
nice, blue/green) $85.00 set of 4
67 Cutlass Jetaway Trans (low miles, w/switch pitch converter)  $100.00
66-67 Rear Side window lower U-seals (new, Metro Moulded)  $18.00 pr
67 Cutlass Hood (mint)  $100.00
67 Cutlass Fender Emblems (nice)  $10.00 ea
67 Plain Cutlass Fender Rockets (nice)  $5.50 ea
66-67 AM Radios  (nice)  $30.00 ea
66/67 Repro Radio Delete Plates (perfect repro)  $40.00
66/67 Repro Heater Delete Plates  (perfect repro)  $40.00  ($78.00 set)
67 F-85 Rear Bumper (very good condition)  $75.00
67 Front Bumper (straight, core)  $70.00
67 Cutlass Headlight Bezels (nice)  $50.00 pr
67 442 Trunk Lids (clean)  $90.00 ea
67 442 Pie Tin Decal  $3.00
67 RH Fender (small metal patch panel, straight)  $165.00

68 Cutlass/442
68 2 bbl Air Cleaner  $20.00
68-69 Cutlass/442 Post Coupe LH Door  $85.00
68-69 Cutlass "S"/442 Wheel Well Moldings (nice, 3)  $90.00 (3)
68 Turn Signal Lens (mint)  $12.00 ea
68 Cutlass Rear Bumper (core)  $75.00
68-69 14x6 SSII Wheels (set of 5)  $200.00
68 AM Radio  $25.00
68  8-Track Unit (housing cracked, needs plastic one)  $55.00
68-69 Driver Side Remote Mirror (good)  $45.00
68-69 LH Quarter Panel  4 door (mint)  $135.00
68-69 RH Quarter Panel  4 door (mint)  $135.00
68-72 Cutlass S LH Rear Side Glass (clear)  $35.00
Rear Window Molding Sets  $45.00 set
68 Cutlass/442 Std Horn Button (black, nice)  $7.00
68-72 Rear Hood Molding  $40.00 ea
68-72 Cowl mouldings  $25.00 ea
68-72 B-Pillar Molding Sets (black, mint) $27.50 pr

69 Cutlass/442
68-69 Cutlass "S"/442 Wheel Well Moldings (nice, 3)  $90.00 (3)
69 Cutlass RH Grille (nice, used)  $40.00
69 Cruise Control Switch and Bezel  $25.00
69 Radiator Core Support 3 Row (mint, no rust holes)  $150.00
69 Trunk Lid (Conv, nice)  $175.00
69 Headlight Bezels  $60.00 pr
69 Lower Dash (radio area)  (nice)  $35.00
69 C/S Side Moldings (mint, no pits)  $15.00 ea
68-69 Driver Side Remote Mirror (good)  $45.00
68-69 LH Quarter Panel 4 door (mint)  $135.00
68-69 RH Quarter Panel 4 door (mint)  $135.00
69 Cutlass/442 Doors 2 dr Hardtop (mint pair)  $200.00 pr / $110.00 ea
69-72 Hood Hinges  $40.00 pr
69-70 "S" Hood Louver Chrome  $25.00 pr
69-70 "S" Hood Louver Moldiings  $25.00 pr
68-72 Windshield Molding Sets  $45.00 set
68-72 Fastback Rear Window Molding Sets  $45.00 set
69-72 Floor Shift Steering Column (very good)  $95.00
69 LH Top Fender Moldings (excellent) $35.00
69 RH Fender (small nickel sized hole)  $200.00
69 Front and Rear 4 Doors  (small dings, no rust) $55.00 ea
69 4 Door Panels (Gold, cloth, nice)  $25.00 ea

70 Cutlass/442
70 LH/RH Hood "L" moldings (few small pits under side, nice) $95.00 pr
70 442/SX/Rally 350 Rear Cutout Bumper (CORE)  $110.00
70-72 Dash Pad and Dash Plastic (radio area, green, mint)  $185.00
70 Std Auto console neutral safety switch w/bracket  $65.00
70-72 LH Fender (dimpled, nice)  $185.00
70-72 C/S Quarter End Caps (nice) $40.00 pr
70 FLAT Fender RH (small metal patch panel installed nice)  $200.00
70 Cutlass Supreme Door Panels (black mint) 4 for $100.00
70 Headlight Bezels  $50.00 pr
70 Cutlass Supreme Hood (excellent)  $115.00
70-71 Halo Vinyl Top Molding sets no "L " moldings (mint) $55.00 set
70-72 455 Std. Iron intake manifold (auto cars)  $55.00
70-72 Vista Cruiser Tailgate Switch Bezels  $5.00 ea
70 F-85 Horn Button (cheap style wheel, excellent)  $10.00
70 Oldsmobile Options Folder  $5.00
69-70 C/S Front Hood Rocket (nice)  $12.00
69-70 "S" Hood Chrome Vents  $25.00 pr
69-70 "S" Hood Vent Moldings  $25.00 pr
70 "S" Pillared Coupe Door Panels (good cond)  $40.00 pr
70 Cutlass Rear Bumper Core  $90.00
70-72 Glove Box Doors  $15.00 ea
70-72 RH Fender (has small patch panel)   $185.00
70 Cutlass 'S' Tail Light Lens   $17.00 ea
70 Cutlass Supreme Tail Light Lens  $23.00 ea

71 Cutlass/442
70-72 LH Fender (dimpled, nice)  $185.00
70-72 C/S Quarter End Caps (nice) $40.00 pr
71-72 Power Lock Switches  $12.00 ea
71-72 Fender RH (small metal patch in bottom)  $185.00
71 Cutlass Full Wheel Covers  $30.00 set
71-72 A/C Fan Shroud (correct ribbed type)  $55.00
70-72 C/S LH/RH Side Glass  $25.00 ea
71 Headlight Bezels  $50.00 pr

72 Cutlass/442
70-72 LH Fender (dimpled, nice)  $185.00
70-72 C/S Quarter End Caps (nice) $40.00 pr
71-72 Power Lock Switches  $12.00 ea
72 Cutlass/442 Owners Manual  $7.00
71-72 A/C Fan Shroud (correct ribbed type)  $55.00
72 Headlight Bezels  $50.00 pr

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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 ª1083
*********************************
