
oldsmobile-digest      Sunday, December 14 1997      Volume 01 : Number 1009



Re: HEI & recurve question
Re: (youngeter's retort) Re: sounds
Re: Bad break booster blues
Re: $85 valve covers?
Re: Parts Needed...
Re: Funny story
Re: Painting
Re: Off the list for a while
Re: Cork Vs. Rubber ?
Re: 69 H/O christmas ornament
Re: Intake Manifold Question
Re: power tour
Re: 6sp\442, dist cap
Re: (youngeter's retort) Re: sounds
Re: H$lp!
Re: To Frame Off or not to frame off
Re: Cork Vs. Rubber ?
Re: Bad break booster blues
Re: Quad 4 head gaskets
Re: $85 valve covers?
Music for driving 455 Olds'
Re: Quad 4 with no PCV(used to be head gasket)
Re: Bad break booster blues
Re: To Frame Off or not to frame off
Re: (youngeter's retort) Re: sounds
calendar
Mixed drive-train questions
Re: Bad break booster blues
hey buddy, can you spare $85. ?
Re: Music for driving 455 Olds'
Still more on '69 f/s
Question about HEI Dstrbtrs
Re: Intake Manifold Question
Re: Cheesy paint jobs from hell...
72 Cutlass
Re: 72 Cutlass
Re: Quad 4 with no PCV(used to be head gasket)
Re: Interior stuff
Re: power tour
Re: Re[5]: carb. fix info
Re:valve train
Re: bearing packer
Re: Quad 4 head gaskets
Re: Intro and Olds 350 questions
Re: Quad 4 with no PCV(used to be head gasket)
Re: Quad 4 with no PCV(used to be head gasket)
Re: Intake Manifold Question
Sad Rad
Re: Quad 4 head gaskets
Re: Sad Rad
Re: Sad Rad

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 03:02:47 -0500
From: Dave Ward <ward@ptbo.igs.net>
Subject: Re: HEI & recurve question

BIG JERMES wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 97-12-13 11:26:15 EST, you write:
> 
> << I experienced this EXACT same condition
>  in my car and came to find out that the brake booster was leaking
>  causing and extreme lean condition. As soon as I replaced this booster
>  (fixed the vacuum leak) I had no more problems with the pinging. I even
>  got to run a little more timing than previously. >>
> 
> i wonder if this is my problem?  could you hear or see the leak?  do tell!

When I had my '78 hooked up to the engine analyzer, I had to hook the
computer up to a source of engine vacuum, so I used the line from the
brake booster.  When I was finished, I disconnected everything from the
computer, but I forgot to reconnect the vac line to the brake booster. 
I noticed the engine ping a couple times when I was driving around the
parking lot.  When I stepped on the brakes to maneuveur (sp?) into a
parking spot, I ended up bumping into a large stone cauldron, which was
serving as a flower pot.  No harm, no foul...

I put the hood up with it running, and I could hear a vacuum leak.  All
I had to do was plug the line back on.  The idle smoothed out, and it's
never pinged since.

There's one quick and easy test for a brake booster;  if you have to
step abnormally hard on the pedal to stop (providing that the mast. cyl
and brake system are all in fine working order).  Just before
I...uh...*grazed* the flower pot, I found the brake pedal excessively
stiff...(brand new brake sys., lots of fluid).

- ------------------------------------------ 
S. Dave Ward  (mailto:ward@ptbo.igs.net)

'78 Delta 88 Royale (350 4bbl.)
'85 Delta 88 R.B.   (307 4bbl.)
'91 GMC Sierra 4x4  (305 TBI)

(Ennismore, Ontario, CANADA)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 03:18:41 -0700 (MST)
From: bhorn@tnc.com (Beverley Horn)
Subject: Re: (youngeter's retort) Re: sounds

>AEROTECH wrote:
>>
>> Definately for new age in this era it would have to be a pocket rocket
>> 91. you guys may be a little outa touch with youngsters these days,
>> but the truth is they have no interest or appreciation for older cars,
>> and their styling. 
>
>As If!!!! I am 16 years old, and i have an extremely large appreciation for
older cars. (especially Oldsmobile) I personally own a 1985 442, and a 1970
Rallye350 (in restoration process) which I aquired qith my own money. So
don't be sayin all kids have a poor appreciation.!

Shayne Horn
1985 442
1970 Rallye350

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 05:32:12 -0500
From: RC Hellebuyck <mrhell@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Bad break booster blues

Mike Rothe wrote:
> I'm probably gonna opt for Dewey.>

Why is that Mike?  Dewey charges more.  His ad says plating
"available".  Where as the $100. that Steve Gregori charges includes
plating.  Again, just curious why you are choosing "booster dewey"?
- -- 
RC Hellebuyck
1971 4-4-2 covt. - see it at:

http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/mrhell/driving.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 05:38:59 -0500
From: RC Hellebuyck <mrhell@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: $85 valve covers?

Chris Brown Witt wrote:
> Is that a typo?  Seems a bit steep to me.>


OK, what do you think is a fair price for my chrome valve covers?  $85.
is what I paid for the new covers....just thought I might break even :p

- -- 
RC Hellebuyck
1971 4-4-2 covt. - see it at:

http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/mrhell/driving.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 04:15:32 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Parts Needed...

On Sat, 13 Dec 1997, Mike Hall wrote:

> I am still looking for some parts for my 87' Custom Cruiser:
> 
> - Front Hood Emblem, any late 80's Olds Eighty Eight Emblems w/the chrome 
> strip up the hood should be fine.
> 
> - Gear Shift Selector handle, any late 80's Olds Eighty Eight's with TILT 
> STEERING should be fine, this would include the metal bent handle and the 
> plastic knob on the end.

HEY, someone busted up my steering column in my 84 88 trying to steal it.
I will be replacing the column shortly.  If you want anything off it, ie.
gear shift lever, you'll have to call me, or give me your number and I'll
call you.  I won't have access to my e-mail for about a month starting
thursday of this week.  The number you can reach me (Ray) at from 12-21 to
1-10 is (215) 453-0773, Eastern time.  Let me know.  The lever is in good
shape, is tilt wheel.

Sorry, my hood emblem is also missing.

> 
> A lot of the Hood Emblems up here in Michigan have been attacked by the 
> Calcium Chloride and the road salt. The chrome cracks and attacks the die 
> cast metal underneath, bubbles all over making it less than satisfactory 
> for my car... GM Parts wants 50 bucks for it, a lot of things I will pay 
> 50 bucks for, this is not one of them!
> 
> I have found several gear shift handles, many are broke and when I find a 
> good one the yard wants to sell me the whole steering column... The parts 
> department wants 50 bucks for this thing too!
> 
> Those of you going to any yards in the near future, please keep me in 
> mind:-)
> Regards,
> Mike
> 
> 
> Michael R. Hall: OCA #17903                    Ortonville, Michigan
> Home E-Mail: oldsmike@flash.net
> The Ever-Growing Oldsmobile Stable:
> 1971 Oldsmobile 442    
> 1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S
> 1987 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Custom Cruiser
> 1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm
> 
> 

Ray dealing with "El Nino" in the Sonoran Desert Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 04:17:40 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Funny story

On Sat, 13 Dec 1997, mrada wrote:

> Jerry Christopher wrote:
> > 
> > Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada) wrote:
> > 
> > > I guess I am having 442 withdrawls.  Can't wait to get my 442 fixed.
> > > The DRB is not too bad as long as I don't drive it in "D".

Hey, I'm "stuck" (not to offend any) driving an 88 while my Cutlass's
engine is becoming a born again.  I empathize.  It's not a 442 but it
still kicks ass!


Ray dealing with "El Nino" in the Sonoran Desert Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 04:19:52 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Painting

On Sat, 13 Dec 1997, David, Terri and Rob wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> DR OLDS350 wrote:
> 
> > Hi All,
> >
> >        I am looking for a place to have my car painted. I called up a
> > few
> > places and thier prices were around 3-4000 dollars. I was on my way to
> > a place
> > to see if they would repair my hood and I noticed Macco. I went inside
> > and
> > asked a few questions. They said that they can blast the car and paint
> > it with
> > a base coat clear coat for 599 dollars. Has anyone on the list had any

Hey, if you are in PA or near it, get your car painted by George who (used
to?) work at Jerry's Auto Body in Souderton, PA.  I realize you're
thinking economically, but you get more than you pay for with him.  The
guy's work is amazing.  My paint job cost more than I paid for my last
Cutlass, but it looks outstanding.

> >
> > expierence with Macco at all? If so, how did you like the job they did
> > on your
> > car? How much does a good paint job run for a car that has no rust?
> >
> > Jim / DROLDS350@aol.com
> > <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/DROLDS350/w31pictures.html">1970
> > Cutlass W31
> > </A>
> > 1970 Rallye 350
> > <
> 
> 
> 
> 1 thing I like about these assembly line operations is: if you want the
> tires and wheels done...just leave them on the car.....Earl Scheib says
> for $49.95 we do it all....yeah right...and leave the windows down and
> they'll do the  interior for FREE!!....Hoagie
> 
> 

Ray dealing with "El Nino" in the Sonoran Desert Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 04:21:52 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Off the list for a while

On Sat, 13 Dec 1997, Andy Geeting wrote:

> Hey,
>      I'll be off the list temporarily during Christmas break. Should be
> back around the 13th of January. 'Till then everyone have a good Christmas
> and Happy New Year!!!

I see your school is as lame as mine starting that early.  This damn
school is in session until the middle of the Power Tour, too.  I'm going
to slightly guilty when I skip all my finals for it.


> 
> Andy Geeting
> '87 Cutlass Supreme 
> '88 Cutlass Supreme Classic Brougham
> '74 Delta 88 convertible
> '78 Caprice wagon
> '36 Plymouth coupe
> 

Ray dealing with "El Nino" in the Sonoran Desert Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 04:24:01 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cork Vs. Rubber ?

On Sat, 13 Dec 1997, RC Hellebuyck wrote:

> BBRRRRRRRR! Winter is here in MI!  Time to put on those "new looking,
> stock" valve covers I bought via this list!  :)
> 
> My question, what type of valve cover gaskets should I use? Cork or
> Rubber?  Obviously, I don't want ANY leaks, (who does?).  I don't know
> what type are on there now, but they sure don't leak.  :)  
> 
Judging by my experience and the rest of my family's, cork seals a lot
better, but doesn't last quite as long.   As long as you don't mind
changing the gaskets once a year or so, go for cork.  Fel Pro's seem to
work nice, but I don't think we've ever used anything but to which I
could compare.

> > -- > RC Hellebuyck > 1971 4-4-2 covt.
> 
> http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/mrhell/driving.htm
> 

Ray dealing with "El Nino" in the Sonoran Desert Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 04:33:11 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: 69 H/O christmas ornament

On Sat, 13 Dec 1997, Mike Rothe wrote:

> For anyone that HASN'T seen the Hallmark ornament of the 69 H/O, you can
> see it on my site as well, (link below) as a few other people's sites. 
> It's just a cool little jewel, don't you think?

I bought mine last night after calling all the 24-hour Walgreen's in town.
I really dig it.  Mine didn't come with a little hook to hang it with, but
it does have the loop on the roof.  Now if I only had a real 69 H/O like
someone else around here.  

> -- 
> Mike Rothe
> 69 H/O
> 71 442 HT
> 85 442 T-top
> 76 GMC 1/2 ton, 502 c.i.
> 
> http://pages.prodigy.net/mrothe/rocket.html
> 

Ray dealing with "El Nino" in the Sonoran Desert Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 04:35:47 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Intake Manifold Question

On Sat, 13 Dec 1997, Erik wrote:

> Hi, 
> 
> I'm planning on replacing the gaskets and seals on my '72 Cutlass.  I
> have the edelbrock Performer manifold on there and I have a couple
> questions.
> 
> Should I put any sealer on the gaskets?  The instructions say yes, but
> two different mechanics tell me no, and they say just to put in at the
> end of the seals.
> 
> Also, the torque sequence in my manual says to start with the outside
> bolts and work in.  But the two mechanics tell me to start with the
> inside bolts and then work out.

When I replaced my gasket (took off the manifold to paint it), I called
Edelbrock and asked them.  They recomended (sp?) going from opposite
extreme corners in an x fashion and repeating the process working in,
doing this about three times until reaching 25-ft-lbs.


> 
> Any suggestions?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Erik Badzinski
> 

Ray dealing with "El Nino" in the Sonoran Desert Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 04:37:26 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: power tour

On Sun, 14 Dec 1997, AEROTECH wrote:

> >On a funny note...  The RWD guys talk about swapping their rear ends for
> >the run, would FWD guys swap front ends?!?!?  hahahaha
> 
> Jerry
> 
> No need for the pocket Rockets to swap anything, they come eqipped, and are
> versatile. they can adapt to just about any situation, that's what make s
> them the all around winner in my book. they are great/superior in all
> aspects, power, economy, handling, size, and looks in my opinion. you get
> the best of all worlds when you own/drive one of these, check around you
> may be able to find a nice one for sale in your area. some people don't
> know what they have and seel them cheap. 

If only it had a driveshaft.

> 
> Have a good one
> AEROTECH
> 
> 

Ray dealing with "El Nino" in the Sonoran Desert Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 04:38:58 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: 6sp\442, dist cap

On Sun, 14 Dec 1997, BIG JERMES wrote:

> sorry, man, but i just ran the car in a computer program.  that was "if" it
> had a six speed.  so i have no idea how to put one in a g-body.  
> 
There was an article in a Car Craft a few months back in which they put a
6 speed in an 80's El Camino (maybe it was a Malibu, I forget).  Would the
process be similar enough to get a good idea of how it could be done?


Ray dealing with "El Nino" in the Sonoran Desert Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 04:40:53 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: (youngeter's retort) Re: sounds

On Sun, 14 Dec 1997, Beverley Horn wrote:

> >AEROTECH wrote:
> >>
> >> Definately for new age in this era it would have to be a pocket rocket
> >> 91. you guys may be a little outa touch with youngsters these days,
> >> but the truth is they have no interest or appreciation for older cars,
> >> and their styling. 
> >
> >As If!!!! I am 16 years old, and i have an extremely large appreciation for
> older cars. (especially Oldsmobile) I personally own a 1985 442, and a 1970
> Rallye350 (in restoration process) which I aquired qith my own money. So
> don't be sayin all kids have a poor appreciation.!

You own a 442 at age 16?!  You bastard! (jokingly).  I was cruising around
in a 80 Caprice when I first started driving. 

> 
> Shayne Horn
> 1985 442
> 1970 Rallye350
> 
> 

Ray dealing with "El Nino" in the Sonoran Desert Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 09:09:49 EST
From: SRB442 <SRB442@aol.com>
Subject: Re: H$lp!

John,
       Putting a T.P.S. in a ellectronic quadrajet is not that bad to do.
Taking the top off is the same. Once you get the top off you have to take the
rich lean stop of to get to mettering rods you need a "D" shaped tool to
unscrew the stop ( I count the number of turns in until the screw bottoms so I
can put it back the same way) take the rods out, float and needle and maybe
the solonoid for the rods. Swap the new tps for the old one and reassemble.
The only hard part is when you set the top back down there is a hook type
piece that pushs the tps dowwn in place and you have to make sure the cover
lays flat before srewing it down. I also don't drill out the plugs for
adjustments. I have done many over the years in "Y" motor Cads and have never
had any come back. I haven't done one in a couple of years so the exact order
I gave might be a little off. The important part is counting the turns on the
rich/lean stop and  putting the cover on.                      Steve
1967 442
1970 442
1973 442
1985 Delta 88 Royale Brougham

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 09:22:08 EST
From: SRB442 <SRB442@aol.com>
Subject: Re: To Frame Off or not to frame off

Hi,
    This really depends on how detailed you want the car. I am finishing a
frame off on a 1970 442 and am glad I did it this way. I plan on driving and
showing my car so I wanted a very detailed car. I have a 67 442 that I did a
nose off on and cleaned the rest of the frame and painted it and it looks nice
but not real finished. If you plan on keeping the car and have the room,time
and checkbook I would do a frame off. If not leave the body on and just clean
it up. If you do a frame off it can get quite expensive with new brake
lines.bushings suspention parts and stuff plus the time to sandblast and
refinish the frame and related parts. I probably got $2500 just in the frame
and suspention on my car and that is without labor. It is just a matter how
far you want to get into it.           Steve
1967 442
1970 442
1973 442
1985 Delta 88 Royale Brougham

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 09:31:06 EST
From: SRB442 <SRB442@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Cork Vs. Rubber ?

Hi,
    I personally like cork gaskets. I have been using Mr. Gasket cork valve
cover gasket with great success over tthe years. Thes gaskets are a little
thicker than Fel-Pro and GM and seem to seal well. I put them on dry and don't
overtighten. I haven't had a valve cover leak in a long time.  Steve
1967 442
1970 442
1973 442
1985 Delta 88 Royale Brougham

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 09:39:46 EST
From: SRB442 <SRB442@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Bad break booster blues

Hi,
    I have talked to Steve Gregori about his boosteres and he seems very
knowledgeable about plating in general. The only bad part is the cores from
the bad weather states are not going to plate well. He sell boosters outright
with no exchange for a higher price as he lives in California with no rust and
salt. I personally have not had any work done but a lot of cars at O.C.A.
events have his boosters. He also does hood hinges,door hinges.caliper
mounting plates and wheel shields. I went with the eastwood golden cad plating
kit. It looks ok but you can tell it's painted. Steve
1967 442
1970 442
1973 442
1985 Delta 88 Royale Brougham

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 09:48:47 -0500
From: AEROTECH <jev114@email.psu.edu>
Subject: Re: Quad 4 head gaskets

> 
>>>the foamy stuff in the oil does not mean your head gasket is leaking.
>
>WHAT?  If you get *ANY* foamy stuff in your oil, nine times from ten
>it's something to do with the head, and/or head gasket.  The only other
>thing causing this would be extreme blow-by, which means your rings are
>FUBAR, and you'll have to take the motor apart anyway.  OTOH, if you're
>stupid enough to overfill the crankcase with oil, the crank will be
>immersed, and will cause foaming.  But, we'd all like to think that all
>Olds owners have more brains than that...

Well Dave

Since you are are a little undereducated about the Quad 4. let me explain
this white foam to ya. first of it's normal, and i get it every winter, and
have gotten it every winter for the last 5 or 6 years in this engine. let
me tell you why. Quad 4 does not have a PCV VALVE like most engines. Q4 has
a CV system. vapors escape from the crankcase but fresh air is not induced
into the crankcase. this is why the foamy stuff is their it's condensation.
Quad 4's are simple motors, NO emisssion stuff on thier like air pumps,
EGR, or all that other crap that just gets in your way, like all those
70's, 80's , 90's cars

And Dave not all radiator additives plug up heater cores. something to
fight corrosion, isn't gonna stop leaks or plug up radiators. Last Q4 head
gasket 
i changed was over 140,000mi ago. must be doing something right, and one 
things for certain, this motor is NEVER babied. NEVER was and NEVER will.

How long can your V8 take a beating?
AEROTECH


AEROTECH

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 07:13:43 -0800
From: Gary Andresen <gandresen@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: $85 valve covers?

Just took the chrome valve covers off my 455 and replaced them with
some beautiful Offenhauser covers.  Will sell for $25, plus shipping.
They don't weigh much, so suppose shipping wouldn't be much via UPS
ground.

Gary Andresen
'55 Olds "Sleeper"
Pleasanton, CA
Home - gandresen@ibm.net (Weekends only)
Work - gandresen@altigen.com (Arrives at desk automatically)


Chris Brown Witt wrote:
> 
> Once I complete this job, I'd like to sell the chrome valve covers that
> are currently on my car.  Both are in EC without rubber grommets.  $85.
> for the pair. Shipping included.
> RC Hellebuyck
> ===============
> Is that a typo?
> Seems a bit steep to me.
> --
> Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
> *the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
>          >>> Please snip the excess lines from posts <<<

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 07:35:58 -0800
From: Gary Andresen <gandresen@ibm.net>
Subject: Music for driving 455 Olds'

Talked to my sister yesterday who is into country western music.

She played this song for me over the phone which had a lot of
lyrics about "the love for and travelin in my 455....."

Had an uppaced beat and sounded pretty good.  Think those of you
who like country and have a 4-4-2 or 455 Olds will kike it.  Those
of you with nice stereos will probably crank this one way up.

	By Kathy Mattea  and  it's called LOVE TRAVELS

Not sure if that's the album or track name

Gary Andresen
'55 Olds "Sleeper"
Pleasanton, CA
Home - gandresen@ibm.net (Weekends only)
Work - gandresen@altigen.com (Arrives at desk automatically)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 10:43:00 -0500
From: MROTHE <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Quad 4 with no PCV(used to be head gasket)

><SNIP> Quad 4 does not have a PCV VALVE like most engines. Q4 has
> a CV system. vapors escape from the crankcase but fresh air is not induced
> into the crankcase.

Interesting.  Foaming oil would concern me regardless of the cause. 
Somehow, it just doesn't seem natural.  Can you explain in more detail
how this "CV" system works?  Just because it doesn't have a PCV valve
doesn't necessarily mean it shouldn't work similar.  Merely venting a
gas can wouldn't take away it's explosive potential.  It makes more
sense to me that if you remove these gasses, then you would need to
replace what you took out to prevent pressure or vacuum in the
crankcase. (The only engine I could see that could do this is maybe a
Pinto engine, where cylinder pressures didn't reach much more than
atmospheric anyway.)  ;)

- -- 
Mike Rothe
69 H/O
71 442 HT
85 442 T-top
76 GMC 1/2 ton, 502 c.i.

http://pages.prodigy.net/mrothe/rocket.html

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 11:08:40 -0500
From: MROTHE <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Bad break booster blues

> > I'm probably gonna opt for Dewey.>
> 
> Why is that Mike?  Dewey charges more.  His ad says plating
> "available".  Where as the $100. that Steve Gregori charges includes
> plating.  Again, just curious why you are choosing "booster dewey"?

I didn't say I WAS, I said probably.  One, since I called all the
numbers in the Hemmings, he was the one that took the time to completely
explain what was gonna happen and how they were gonna do it, tips on
shipping, etc., and if you know me, I ask lots of questions.  Second,
although I've never heard complaints about either place, complete
customer satisfaction isn't always based on the lowest cost for me. 
It's where the customer (or potential customer) feels like they will get
exactly what they pay for, with the desired results, which is my
definition of "quality".  The more someone cares to take the time to
explain their operation to me in detail, the more comfortable I am about
what to expect.  Peace of mind is worth something.  Besides, I was
quoted $80 for rebuild, $40 for plating to include the MC cover.  I'm
really not gonna consider one or the other solely based on $20
difference.  $200 difference, though, and it would be a different
story.  Trust me, the brake booster rebuild is not rocket science.  If
rebuild parts were available to the general public (which they're not,
I've tried), I would do it myself and just send out for plating.  I'm
NOT saying that you wouldn't get good service from Steve Gregori, I'm
sure you do, I'm just saying $20 is not enough to make me sit up and
take notice after pouring the amount of money I have into my projects. 
Not that I'm made of money of course, but like I've said before, I'm
just "leaning" that way.  Didn't say I would.  I would like to read more
personal testimony from customers of BOTH to make a more informed
decision.  Hopefully there are some on this list. (hint, hint)  The
other option is for me to get two boosters redone, one at each place and
decide for myself.
- -- 
Mike Rothe
69 H/O
71 442 HT
85 442 T-top
76 GMC 1/2 ton, 502 c.i.

http://pages.prodigy.net/mrothe/rocket.html

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 08:10:54 -0800
From: Gary Andresen <gandresen@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: To Frame Off or not to frame off

Lloyd,

Obviously speaking from experience, you are right on the button.

But it sure is worth it, huh??

Gary Andresen
'55 Olds "Sleeper"
Pleasanton, CA


Lloyd W. Culp wrote:
> 
> You should first decide what your goals are for this car before doing
> anything.  If you want the perfect car & effort & money don't matter; of
> course take everything apart.  If you want a nice #2 car that will win most
> any show around, I would never do this.  There are even #1 cars that have
> never had the body off.
> 
> After you decide your level of perfection & the depth of your pockets, start
> taking as exact assessment of the project in question as possible. Take your
> time & go over everything several times w/plenty of notes & pictures.  Don't
> forget to study everything ever written on this car & related vehicles.
> Consult experts & have others you trust to check your findings.
> 
> Get together a plan on a logical effort to reach your objectives.  You don't
> want one thing waiting on others while your project stalls for months &
> years.
> 
> Start lining up services & parts so that your plan will fall into place.
> find out now what is impossible to get & what is merely very difficult.
> 
> Get a place w/at least 2 or 3 bays for this task.  Expect a year or more for
> most serious projects.  The car & area will be tied up that long for sure.
> 
> Don't forget to double & triple your cost estimates.  Get your family
> involved.  You will definitely need the support when everything goes wrong.
> 
> Expect long hours on the phone, at the shops where your parts are being
> prepared, & redoing many things that were very expensive & labor intensive
> the first time. Expect to get only 90% of the car that you planned.
> 
> My final advice is that I wouldn't take the frame off the body unless I
> needed to.  If the body is as nice as you say & you can stand a #2 car, save
> your money & time.
> 
> BTW, floor pans & trunk pans are not cut to take the body off.  This would
> make the body very unstable off the frame.  Floor & trunk work of any large
> areas is best done on the frame.
> 
> Bill Culp    bculp@HiWAAY.net
> Decatur, Alabama
> '62 Jetfire - '67 Toronado - '68 442 convertible
> 
> >Olds List members:
> >I am in the process of restoring a 1970 Rallye 350. I would like to take
> the
> >body off. I have heard a couple people on the list say that it is fairly
> easy.
> >If I take off the body would I have to cut the floor and trunk pans? The
> car I
> >am redoing has no rust and is in pretty good shape. Is there really a need
> to
> >take off the body? If I take the body off it wouldn't be till early summer,
> >and I wouldn't be able to work on my car until the body is off. Is is
> really
> >neccasary to take the body off?
> >
> >Jim
> >

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 11:21:24 -0500
From: Matt Cremean <ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
Subject: Re: (youngeter's retort) Re: sounds

Ray wrote:
> 
> You own a 442 at age 16?!  You bastard! (jokingly).  I was cruising around
> in a 80 Caprice when I first started driving.
> 
> Ray dealing with "El Nino" in the Sonoran Desert Costanzo
> 87 409 Cutlass

Yeah this kids got a step up on me. I restoring a '73 plain Jane, this
kid's got Rallye and a 442.

Hey Ray, trust me, I know what it's like to have the CrapPiece blues.
I'm experiencing it right as we speak. Exhaust manifold leak from hell
too. Typical White Trash kinda car!

- -- 
**********************************
Matt Cremean
mailto:ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
CreamerSoftİ Software
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Park/5988/creamersoft.html
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
1973 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/73olds.html
**********************************

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 11:32:57 -0500
From: "Patton" <patton@ComCAT.COM>
Subject: calendar

Folks,
	Just picked up BIG-A's 1998 calendar. Nice 66' and 71' 442 picks....
Both cars are red - 66 is coupe with dog dish hubcaps and what I believe is
F-85
hood - no emblem.....71' has SSII wheels and HUGE radials...


					The General

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 08:42:28 -0800
From: Gary Andresen <gandresen@ibm.net>
Subject: Mixed drive-train questions

The uphosterly isn't quite done, but my '55 Olds 88 2-door HT
is finally roadable as finally got the turn signals and brake
lights working properly yesterday.  So, went for the first drive
beyond the previous 4-blocks limit from my house.  Just beat the
El Nino storm window, as it is raining again today.

Quick History - More detail when the car is completely done...

Engine - 455 Olds engine.  Balanced and blue-printed, Offenhauser
intake with dual Carter AFB's, electric fuel pump, MSD etc.
Dual chamber Flowmaster's

Transmission - Turbo 400 transmission

Differential - Stock

Yesterday was the first time on the highway (Not freeway yet, as
won't get radials and alignment until next weekend.

Needless to say the car is very strong.  Don't have the speedo going
yet, nor a tach, so just going by how it sounds, but still looking
for input to help in tire selection.

Don't know what the stock rear-end ratio is on a '55, but know that it
was never changed.  With little effort, the car really goes.  My only
concern is that while cruising down the road (guessing by posted speed
and other cars I was probably doing 60-65)  The RPM seemed to be in the
3.5k-4k range, which seems kinda high to me.  Again, just going by ear 
so could be wrong.  Don't have the weathersptripping in yet, so the 
loudness of this beast leaking in from the trunk could be deceiving me.

Should I put bigger circumfrance tires in the rear to drop the RPMs
some?

What are the normal RPMs for a stock 4-4-2 at speeds such as 35, 45, 55, 
65 and 100. (In case I do the Power Tour <GRIN>)

Any suggestion in general would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Gary Andresen
'55 Olds "Sleeper"
Pleasanton, CA
Home - gandresen@ibm.net
Work - gandresen@altigen.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 12:11:11 -0500
From: RC Hellebuyck <mrhell@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Bad break booster blues

Whoa!  I guess I didn't make my point clear.  All I wanted to find out
was if there was something great about "booster dewey" I might not
know.  Price is not the sole deciding factor with me either.  Let's face
it, I spent alot of $$$ for my car and I'm not going to quible over a
smaller amount of cash and end up with that "half-ass look".  As with
you, I want the most resonable, best job I can get.  

I only got to talk to Steve yesterday, (no answer at dewey's).  Steve
suggested I call dewey which I will. Having him say I should call his
competition makes me feel good though.  I hate when a company starts bad
mouthing their competitors.  Really no need for that.

LET'S HEAR FROM ANYONE THAT'S HAD A BRAKE BOOSTER REBUILT RECENTLY!

- -- 
RC Hellebuyck
1971 4-4-2 covt. - see it at:

http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/mrhell/driving.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 12:21:31 -0500
From: RC Hellebuyck <mrhell@sprynet.com>
Subject: hey buddy, can you spare $85. ?

OK, OK!  :-0

Obviously my chrome valve covers aren't worth $85.  Since I have no idea
what their worth, anyone interested can e-mail me an offer. (privately
please)   Or at least someone tell me what the heck these things are
worth?

I'd rather sell them then store 'em.

- -- 
RC Hellebuyck
1971 4-4-2 covt. - see it at:

http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/mrhell/driving.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 12:37:58 -0800
From: "David, Terri and Rob" <hoagie@emeraldis.com>
Subject: Re: Music for driving 455 Olds'

Gary Andresen wrote:

> Talked to my sister yesterday who is into country western music.
>
> She played this song for me over the phone which had a lot of
> lyrics about "the love for and travelin in my 455....."
>
> Had an uppaced beat and sounded pretty good.  Think those of you
> who like country and have a 4-4-2 or 455 Olds will kike it.  Those
> of you with nice stereos will probably crank this one way up.
>
>         By Kathy Mattea  and  it's called LOVE TRAVELS
>
> Not sure if that's the album or track name
>
> Gary Andresen
> '55 Olds "Sleeper"
> Pleasanton, CA
> Home - gandresen@ibm.net (Weekends only)
> Work - gandresen@altigen.com (Arrives at desk automatically)

the song is called 455 Rocket......Mr. Smith had an oldsmobile...Baby
Blue with wire wheels...she had a 4-5-5 rocket.....biggest block
alive...good tune...till she got to the part where she took out a guard
rail with it...lol...kinda sad...the video is cute...except they use a
cutaway of a '59 olds 88 which is not a factory 455 rocket car..........
think an azure blue 70 442  W-30 drop top would have been a lil truer to
the song.. .......Hoagie

1970 (azure blue) Cutlass SX convertible
1971 442 W-30 convertible
1971 442 "hardtop coupe"
1971 Monte Carlo
1969 Camaro RS
1997 Camaro Z-28

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 14:23:47 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: Still more on '69 f/s

> From CMD1962@aol.com Sun Dec 14 10:32:36 1997
> From: CMD1962 <CMD1962@aol.com>
> Subject: Re: 69 parts car

To refresh your memories:

> Have 1969 cutlass for parts, lots of pieces, frame, body, fenders, doors,
> hoods, deck lids, front suspension, rear end.  Car is mostly together with
> clear title
> 330-882-6966 call between 6-9 ask for dave.   Thanks!!

And we decided that this was in the Checago area, I think?
More about it today:

> Frame has been sandblasted and painted, no rust, body bolted to frame.  Front
> suspension all new, including bushings, tie rod ends, ball joints, solid
> fenders, doors unassembled, but solid. Quarters had rust but were repaired,
> dashboard intact, black in color, no motor or transmission,  10 bolt rear-end
> goes with it, have all glass but winshield, some extra parts.  Tired of typing

> you got my phone number call, dont like to type, oh yea and the price is
> 850.00 asking price, make me an offer

Sounds like a GREAT start on a project for that price. Wish I had the time/ $
to do that. Anyone need this, or know of a buyer?
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
         >>> Please snip the excess lines from posts <<<

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 14:27:51 -0500
From: Matt Cremean <ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
Subject: Question about HEI Dstrbtrs

I'm planning on buying an HEI distributor. Now comes the question:

Which should I buy?
I'm looking at Accel's $200 HEI
or
GM's HEI ($$???)

I plan on using MSD's Super HEI kit with it. 6A ignition box, Blaster 2
coil. Does MSD make an HEI dist.?

Please let me know! I am desperate for info!!
- -- 
**********************************
Matt Cremean
mailto:ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
CreamerSoftİ Software
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Park/5988/creamersoft.html
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
1973 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/73olds.html
**********************************

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 13:56:24 -0600
From: "Tracy H. Shires" <twodogs@ou.edu>
Subject: Re: Intake Manifold Question

>Should I put any sealer on the gaskets?  The instructions say yes, but

>two different mechanics tell me no, and they say just to put in at the

>end of the seals.


I've put on four manifolds on in the last two years. The very first one I did leaked at the water ports when I did it by the book, but after reading the Hot Rod tips and doing it their way I have never had another leak. I put contact cement on the gasket around the intake ports. Around the water ports use a small bead of gasket sealer. Also use a big drop of gasket sealer where the gasket lays on the rubber end gaskets (at the four corners) to get a good seal there.



>Also, the torque sequence in my manual says to start with the outside

>bolts and work in.  But the two mechanics tell me to start with the

>inside bolts and then work out.


I've always gone inside to out... I went ahead and looked at my book and it says the same..


Good Luck!!


>Any suggestions?

>

>Thanks,

>

>Erik Badzinski

>

>






T. H. Shires				81 C/S/B Rckt 350

mailto:TwoDogs@ou.edu


<bold>University of Oklahoma

</bold><italic><color><param>0000,0000,ffff</param>Aerospace 
Engineering

</color><color><param>ffff,0000,0000</param>Mechanical Engineering

</color></italic>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 14:54:53 EST
From: OLDS44272 <OLDS44272@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Cheesy paint jobs from hell...

     About 5 years i ago, i raced a 70 Chevelle in the Spectator
division.(entry level circle racing). The car was green. Father-in-law worked
at Sohio gas station. The station had just repainted the shop and had extra
blue paint. So, for $15 dollars, i got 3 gallons of blue paint. I crudely
sanded the car in the driveway. Under a pine tree, i painted it with a
roller!! From the stands, the car looked nice. Up close, you could see some
pine needles that had fallen from the tree and were dried in the paint!! I
left them in there cuz it was a matter of time before i had re-paint it from
"trading paint"...........SCOTT

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 15:41:09 -0500 (EST)
From: ted rollins <trollins@rfci.net>
Subject: 72 Cutlass

I would like to find out from some of the expert oldsmobile people on the
list if a 72 cutlass, 350, 2bbl, auto trans, a/c, power steering,brakes,58k
actual miles, 2dr hard top,no dents one spot about the size of a half dollar
of rust on rt rear at wheel well, good looking car with vinyl top. The man
wants $1,800 for it would I go wrong to buy it?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 15:50:44 -0500
From: MROTHE <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: 72 Cutlass

ted rollins wrote:

> list if a 72 cutlass, 350, 2bbl, auto trans, a/c, power steering,brakes,58k
> actual miles, 2dr hard top

Buy it.  Then fix the body.  Then enjoy.  Unless the car is in pieces,
this sounds like an excellent buy.  If the only thing wrong with it is a
little rust, a good bodyman can have that fixed in no time.


- -- 
Mike Rothe
69 H/O
71 442 HT
85 442 T-top
76 GMC 1/2 ton, 502 c.i.

http://pages.prodigy.net/mrothe/rocket.html

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 16:06:53 -0500 (EST)
From: Shaun Miller <smille02@astro.ocis.temple.edu>
Subject: Re: Quad 4 with no PCV(used to be head gasket)

The quad 4's are very unconventional engines.  seems not many people know 
about these engines and assumed the foamy stuff is bad.  The foam is 
normal to a certain degree.  These cars dont have pcv or plug wires to 
get in our way.  To determine the head gasket just watch the exhaust for 
white smoke and the coolant for drops in level.  if you are really 
concerned the best way is to just do a compression test!  Always keep an 
eye on the oil to keep the level--very important to the quads performance.

shaun
q4 guru

On Sun, 14 Dec 1997, MROTHE wrote:

> ><SNIP> Quad 4 does not have a PCV VALVE like most engines. Q4 has
> > a CV system. vapors escape from the crankcase but fresh air is not induced
> > into the crankcase.
> 
> Interesting.  Foaming oil would concern me regardless of the cause. 
> Somehow, it just doesn't seem natural.  Can you explain in more detail
> how this "CV" system works?  Just because it doesn't have a PCV valve
> doesn't necessarily mean it shouldn't work similar.  Merely venting a
> gas can wouldn't take away it's explosive potential.  It makes more
> sense to me that if you remove these gasses, then you would need to
> replace what you took out to prevent pressure or vacuum in the
> crankcase. (The only engine I could see that could do this is maybe a
> Pinto engine, where cylinder pressures didn't reach much more than
> atmospheric anyway.)  ;)
> 
> -- 
> Mike Rothe
> 69 H/O
> 71 442 HT
> 85 442 T-top
> 76 GMC 1/2 ton, 502 c.i.
> 
> http://pages.prodigy.net/mrothe/rocket.html
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 16:09:49 -0500
From: Jerry Christopher <IThEFunKI@ViperLink.Net>
Subject: Re: Interior stuff

BIG JERMES wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 97-12-13 09:13:25 EST, you write:
> 
> << Or, if I'm ever fortunate enough to get
>  some buckets for my car, I'll let you have my bench seat. >>
> 
> sorry, bro, im doing the same thing you are!!  no bench for me!!  i have 2
> buckets and console and all that, but my dash has had it.

Hahah...  Here I am tracking down "crushed velvet" or whatever it's
called benchs...  And no, I don't have a console, I do have a column... 
:(  Unless of course, did they make buckets in that "velvetty" type
fabric?

- -- 
             		    Jerry Christopher
     ___        HTTP://WWW2.Viperlink.Net/Members/IThEFunKI
 ___/.o \__, 	     1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
_=O------O=__________It ain't my father's Oldsmobile_______

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 16:18:21 -0500
From: Jerry Christopher <IThEFunKI@ViperLink.Net>
Subject: Re: power tour

AEROTECH wrote:
> 
> At 11:22 AM 12/12/97 -0500, you wrote:
> >Shaun Miller wrote:
> >>
> >> Yea i was also thinking about doing this power tour thing.  God knows
> >> this quad can cruise at 100 for sustained periods.  I wouldnt doubt
> >> anything with a four banger doing 135 top end.  Maybe if some of the
> >> other q4 guys would be there we could sneak up and win it all.
> >
> >Wouldn't this turn an outrageously high RPM?
> >
> >On a funny note...  The RWD guys talk about swapping their rear ends for
> >the run, would FWD guys swap front ends?!?!?  hahahaha

> No need for the pocket Rockets to swap anything, they come eqipped, and are
> versatile. they can adapt to just about any situation, that's what make s
> them the all around winner in my book. they are great/superior in all
> aspects, power, economy, handling, size, and looks in my opinion. you get
> the best of all worlds when you own/drive one of these, check around you
> may be able to find a nice one for sale in your area. some people don't
> know what they have and seel them cheap.

<politely, to avoid the firemen> No thanx...  I had the chance to play
with a Grand Am carring the Q4 (Said 16Valve HO) on the side, I assume
this was the Quad 4.  Although they can yes hold their own, I don't like
FWD.  To me the handling is all different, all goofy...  Weight is
different too.  The rears are extremely lighter.  Like I said earlier,
to each his own.
- -- 
             		    Jerry Christopher
     ___        HTTP://WWW2.Viperlink.Net/Members/IThEFunKI
 ___/.o \__, 	     1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
_=O------O=__________It ain't my father's Oldsmobile_______

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 16:14:48 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: Re[5]: carb. fix info

>MY QUESTION IS: CAN I PUT A IN LINE FILTER BEFORE THE FUEL PUMP SO I CAN KEEP
>THE STOCK APPEARANCE? I'VE HAD THE SAME PROBLEM WITH MY '68'S Q-JET, AND CANT
>FIND A OVERSIZES FUEL NUT THAT IS BIG ENOUGH. I HAD TO GO AND BUY A NEW
>REBUILT CARB. I FOUND IT VERY TOUGH TO FIND Q-JET #7028250, ANY HELP WOULD 

I've done this before, with good results. It helps keep any sediment from
the fuel tank from clogging the fuel-pump and blowing the diaphram (my '60
Pontiac did that regularly until I put a filter there).
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 16:14:51 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re:valve train

>if the locks you have are the kind with the set screw in the center you
>may have to flatten the top of the studs with some kind of abrasive tool
>so that the set screws have a large enough flat area to be able to set.
>
>On Sat, 13 Dec 1997, oldsmobile-digest wrote:
>
>> oldsmobile-digest     Saturday, December 13 1997 Volume 01 : Number 1007
 [snip of quote of entire Digest #1007]

Just a reminder: if you are a digest reader, it's NEVER a good idea to quote
the original message (and fail to trim the original)! Chris W., this must
have made you happy! <did your space-bar break yet?>
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 16:16:29 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: bearing packer

>>Buy yourself a bearing packer>
>
>AGREED!  I have and use one for my wheel bearings.  It does work great
>Doc.  FYI Darren, year one sells them for about $10.00.  Nifty gadget.
>================
>Seems to me you are still doing the same thing that started this discussion
>unless you load your grease gun with a tube of wheel bearing grease- is there
>such a thing? 

Yes; the disc-brake bearing grease in the tube I bought and used was kind of
blue in color. There were a number to choose from.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 16:27:34 -0500
From: Jerry Christopher <IThEFunKI@ViperLink.Net>
Subject: Re: Quad 4 head gaskets

AEROTECH wrote:

> And Dave not all radiator additives plug up heater cores. something to
> fight corrosion, isn't gonna stop leaks or plug up radiators. 

Tend to disagreed...  3 for 3 ain't bad odds...  It will go, at some
point, it will go, adding all the extra stuff to it doesn't help...  If
it was supposed to use all that high tech additive stuff, it would come
from the factory that made the antifreeze.....  

> Last Q4 head gasket i changed was over 140,000mi ago. must be doing something right,
> and one things for certain, this motor is NEVER babied. NEVER was and NEVER will.

Just a strange question...  Did you not tell us a few weeks ago that you
were sitting pretty at 125,000 on the car?  If so, how'd you put 140,000
on the motor (saying you changed the head gasket at the factory), and
only 125000 on the car?  I am confused now.
 
> How long can your V8 take a beating?

Mines at 132,000 and still puuuurs like a kitten.
- -- 
             		    Jerry Christopher
     ___        HTTP://WWW2.Viperlink.Net/Members/IThEFunKI
 ___/.o \__, 	     1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
_=O------O=__________It ain't my father's Oldsmobile_______

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 16:18:45 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: Intro and Olds 350 questions

>- --I've heard the 330 forged crank and rods are getting close to impossible
>to find.  True?

Only as rare as the 330's themselves (they all had forged cranks).

>- --Believe it or not, it's apparently legal in this class to convert a diesel
>to gasoline power, though it is unheard of to date.  Is the diesel's crank
>plain or nodular iron?  What kind of iron alloy is used in the block
>casting?  I'm looking for a 500+ HP engine eventually, so I may be a loon to
>even consider a cast crank.  (Unfortunately engine stroke cannot be changed,

The diesel engine would be a great starting point for a 500hp 350; it's got
the toughest block by far, and that nodular crank will stand almost
anything. Just a note, though; 500hp may not be the thing for autocrossing.
Overall balance is more important than sheer horsepower.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 16:29:33 -0500
From: Jerry Christopher <IThEFunKI@ViperLink.Net>
Subject: Re: Quad 4 with no PCV(used to be head gasket)

MROTHE wrote:

> crankcase. (The only engine I could see that could do this is maybe a
> Pinto engine, where cylinder pressures didn't reach much more than
> atmospheric anyway.)  ;)

Ahem, Mr. Rothe...  <G> My other car is a 77 Mustang with a 2.3 4Cyl... 
That's the high performance version of the Pinto thank you...  <G>

Joke taken well though.
- -- 
             		    Jerry Christopher
     ___        HTTP://WWW2.Viperlink.Net/Members/IThEFunKI
 ___/.o \__, 	     1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
_=O------O=__________It ain't my father's Oldsmobile_______

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 16:27:41 -0500
From: "Graham Stewart" <graham.stewart@utoronto.ca>
Subject: Re: Quad 4 with no PCV(used to be head gasket)

> From: Shaun Miller <smille02@astro.ocis.temple.edu>
> The quad 4's are very unconventional engines.  seems not many people know

> about these engines and assumed the foamy stuff is bad.  The foam is 
> normal to a certain degree.  These cars dont have pcv or plug wires to 
> get in our way.  

Still curious about what you described as CV in your previous post.  How
does it work?
How does it remove vapours without letting some fresh air in?  Is it
similar to pre-'65 V8s?
What is different about the Quad4 that makes the foam "normal" when it is
considered a problem
in other engines?  Please also describe the ignition system.

Thanks ...

Graham Stewart
Toronto, Canada
graham.stewart@utoronto.ca

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 16:26:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: Intake Manifold Question

>I'm planning on replacing the gaskets and seals on my '72 Cutlass.  I
>have the edelbrock Performer manifold on there and I have a couple
>questions.
>
>Should I put any sealer on the gaskets?  The instructions say yes, but
>two different mechanics tell me no, and they say just to put in at the
>end of the seals.

In conjunction with the stock-style sheetmetal valley-pan gasket, I used RTV
blue around the water passages, and I laid a big bead in place of the
end-seals. I also used RTV red around the crossover ports, and spray-on
copper gasket around the intake ports (all surfaces). No leaks so far. Oh,
yeah, I used the Performer intake as well.

>Also, the torque sequence in my manual says to start with the outside
>bolts and work in.  But the two mechanics tell me to start with the
>inside bolts and then work out.

I followed the shop-manual procedure for the Olds, which works from the
outside in. Those mechanics are, of course, thinking of that "other"
small-block, which does in fact tighten its intake bolts starting with the
inside ones. Do to an Olds what an Olds requires.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 17:39:58 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Sad Rad

Something was wrong here this weekend, since the weather was actually
quite good (although tomorrow is calling for 40 mph winds and temps in the
teens, ugh!). Since the sun was out and the temp was in the mid-30s I
decided it was as good a time as any to install the new radiator in the
Delta. The old one had a persistent leak near the bottom and looked pretty
old, so I figured it was due for replacement rather than just try a fix. 

Fred Nissen suggested I upsize to a 403/AC rad to get 3 rows of tubes and 
a little more capacity. He recommended a Modine #530, but the parts store 
didn't carry them so I got one made by Coulter (I think they are a 
Canadian company). It has been in the box out in the garage until today. 
When I opened it, I noticed that it had an extra fitting: between the 
filler neck and the top trans cooler line there was a female water 
fitting, and in the box was a baggie with 2 options for filling it: a 
brass threaded plug or a threaded heater hose adapter. I have no idea why 
these are necessary or why the fitting is there. More on this later.

I decided the smart way to drain the old one would be to just disconnect 
the bottom hose over a bucket... whoa, that stuff comes out quick! A lot 
got spilled into the driveway. The old rad came out easy, even the trans 
cooler lines weren't too bad. It looked awful. I dunno what it was made 
of but it was rusty, scaly, and grungy. There was a nice chunk of solder 
bloom about the size of an almond rattling around inside the thing too. 
Good riddance.

Fitting the new one was a bit of a puzzle. Fred said I'd have to cut the
rubber cushions to give more room for the bigger tank, but when I checked
one side they fit fine. But the shroud didn't want to go back on until I
figured out the problem: the driver's side rubbers were for the smaller
rad, while the passenger side (the ones I checked with) were for the
larger one! A little work with a razor knife on the rubbers later and it
was installed. 

Filled it with coolant and ran it for a while... no problems. Took it for
a drive, still no problems. I popped the hood when I got home and I could
hear a little hiss, like a teakettle. Deduced that it was coming from the
extra fitting in which I'd installed the plug. Shoot! I was too annoyed
and tired to do the soapy water test, but it seemed that just a little
weeping of antifreeze was coming out from around the solder joint. I think
the plug itself is sealing OK.  When I'm more into it I'll do the
soap-bubble test and be sure. Might be a warranty claim. 

I feel cursed on rads and water leaks in general. Every old car I've had
needed attention to rads, hoses, heater cores, etc. within only a short
time of getting it. Now even *new* rads don't work right for me!! :( It's
got to be better than what was in there though. Anyone have any idea what
this extra fitting might possibly be used for? 


Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 17:01:58 -0800
From: "David, Terri and Rob" <hoagie@emeraldis.com>
Subject: Re: Quad 4 head gaskets

Jerry Christopher wrote:

>
>
>
> > Last Q4 head gasket i changed was over 140,000mi ago. must be doing
> something right,
> > and one things for certain, this motor is NEVER babied. NEVER was
> and NEVER will.
>
>
>
> > How long can your V8 take a beating?
>
> Mines at 132,000 and still puuuurs like a kitten.
> --
>                             Jerry Christopher
>      ___        HTTP://WWW2.Viperlink.Net/Members/IThEFunKI
>  ___/.o \__,         1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
> _=O------O=__________It ain't my father's Oldsmobile_______

   I got a 1994 C-2500 with a 130K on it now....still waiting for it to
miss a beat....no plugs...no wires...no cap...no rotor...only thing ever
put in it other than normal oil changes...is an air conditoning
compressor....and that was covered under a 100K factory warranty...and
they say the Northstar has extended maintainence.....shame on
GM.......Hoagie

1970 Cutlass SX convertible
1971 442 W-30 convertible
1971 442 "hardtop coupe"
1971 Monte Carlo
1969 Camaro RS
1997 Camaro Z-28
and lest we forget.....1994 C-2500 (company truck...I just drive it)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 17:04:01 -0500
From: "Graham Stewart" <graham.stewart@utoronto.ca>
Subject: Re: Sad Rad

> From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
> When I opened it, I noticed that it had an extra fitting: between the 
> filler neck and the top trans cooler line there was a female water 
> fitting, and in the box was a baggie with 2 options for filling it: a 
> brass threaded plug or a threaded heater hose adapter. 
>  Anyone have any idea what
> this extra fitting might possibly be used for? 

Hi Greg ...

Not sure about your car (78 Delta?), but at least from 75-76, full size
Olds' came with an optional low-coolant sensor which plugged into the rad
about where you're describing.  When coolant fell below the sensor, a
circuit opened causing a 
dash light to flash and an alarm to sound.  I've seen rads with these extra
holes in a few wrecking yards, but I always figured that it would be pretty
hard to find an aftermarket supplier who'd include the fitting for it in
their stock.  I actually pulled all the hardware for this off a wrecked
Ninety-Eight once, so maybe I'll look up that rad supplier you mentioned
next time!

Good luck ..

Graham Stewart
Toronto, Canada
graham.stewart@utoronto.ca

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 17:13:25
From: "Daniel A. Gulino" <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Subject: Re: Sad Rad

At 05:39 PM 12/14/1997 -0400, you wrote:

>I feel cursed on rads and water leaks in general. Every old car I've had
>needed attention to rads, hoses, heater cores, etc. within only a short
>time of getting it. Now even *new* rads don't work right for me!! :( It's
>got to be better than what was in there though. Anyone have any idea what
>this extra fitting might possibly be used for? 

Greg,

I don't for sure in your case, but on my '75 Delta, there is an extra
fitting below the radiator filler neck, about half-way between it and the
transmission cooler fittings, and what goes in there is a low-coolant
sensor fitting.  A wire runs from this to (eventually) the dash, where a
light goes on if the coolant level falls below the level of the sensor.


Dan


*********************************************************
Dan Gulino
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu/~gulino/rides.html
1975 Delta 88 Convertible
*********************************************************

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #1009
*********************************

