To:	oldsmobile-digest@chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #1032


oldsmobile-digest      Monday, December 29 1997      Volume 01 : Number 1032



Re: UNBOUNCE: Repair/Resto Q's
Re: Back! oil stuff
Re: Bad Vibrations
Re: Back!
Re: Matchbox Hot Wheels
Re: Oil questions/gas question/how much is it worth?
Re: Matchbox Hot Wheels
Re: non-performance question? 69 442 auto trans
Re: non-performance question? 69 442 auto trans
Re: rental cars/wear and tear
Re: Oil questions/gas question/how much is it worth?
UNBOUNCE: Trans. Replace or Rebuild?
engine codes
Radio Wiring
Re: Oil questions/gas question
Re: Headlight Knob, B/C bodies
Re: Oil questions/gas question
Re: 80' Cutlass Supreme
Re: 80' Cutlass Supreme
servo motor_Forwarded
Re: Noise
Rear Control Arms
Re: Oil questions/gas question
Re: Oil Consumption (was Re: Back!)
Re: Spoiler on Reilly's '86 Cutlass...  (Re: What did Santa leave you!)
Re: rental cars/wear and tear
re:  Spoiler on Reilly's '86 Cutlass...
87 olds salon
Weird Plug Symptoms (No Q's this time!)
84 88 parting out
Re: Oil questions/gas question
Re: Oil questions/gas question
got for xmas
Starkey trans woes
10 things in this world you need to fix any car, any place, any time
Aaron's 400/455
intake removal
400/455 diffs
Re: Noise
68 wood wheel
white-knob window cranks
Re: 87 olds salon
Re: Oil questions/gas question
Re: UNBOUNCE: Trans. Replace or Rebuild?
Re: Weird Plug Symptoms (No Q's this time!)
Re: putting headers on the '70 442
Re: putting headers on the '70 442

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 12:09:28 EST
From: AARONLIFE <AARONLIFE@aol.com>
Subject: Re: UNBOUNCE: Repair/Resto Q's

Check out Brothers Automotive catalog online if you haven't yet...

I don't have the address handy, but search for Brothers and you should find
it.

If you're talking about labor, one of my estimates says 20 hrs labor on my
left rear quarter (replace).  I don't know if this is accurate, or if he was
over/under-estimating to make sure if it would fly with the insurance company.

aaron

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 12:09:33 EST
From: AARONLIFE <AARONLIFE@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Back! oil stuff

In a message dated 97-12-28 16:31:41 EST, you write:

<< At National, the average is about a quart every 1500 to 3000, all
 motors, all makes, not mandatory (no rules about it, it just is) and
 when they start seeing 28,000 it's more into the 1500, to 2000 per
 quart...  But those are BEAT new motors, all of 'em...   >>

We drove from Massachusetts to Georgia and around Georgia, down highways at 70
- - 80 mph, and up and down mountains in the blue-ridge parkway, without any
noticeable change in oil level.  Easily over a thousand miles.

About 2800 miles ago I had the oil changed, drove all around Georgia, mostly
in-town, plus highway, traffic, etc., and when we got to Florida, probably
over 1500 miles later, I added 'maybe' half a quart (didn't measure).  Now,
1300 miles later after driving all around Florida, in-town, traffic, highway,
and back in Georgia, in-town,traffic,highway, it's a little low again (from
the full line), and the oil is black.

I suppose driving conditions and oil-brand have something to do with variety
of results?

How come the oil stayed so clean in my Saab (recently sold it w/183,000 miles
- - loved that car) after driving from Massachusetts to Chicago to Iowa to
Wisconsin up through Michigan into Canada back down through NY to
Massachusetts?  No oil lost, still relatively clean!

Valvoline oil by the way.

aaron

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 12:09:39 EST
From: AARONLIFE <AARONLIFE@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Bad Vibrations

Do you know if your rims are bend-free?

I recently replaced the u-joints and that took out some vibration, but I still
have some, probably due to a slightly bent rear rim (maybe both).  It's also
out of alignment due to the shims falling out after it's last alignment, and
probably being smacked in the rear-end.  By the way, why did getting hit stall
the engine?

aaron

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 12:09:07 EST
From: AARONLIFE <AARONLIFE@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Back!

In a message dated 97-12-28 12:56:56 EST, you write:

<< Got about 25mpg the first tank and about 23-24 >>

!!!!!!

If I coast a lot I can get 12!  Way to go!!

aaron

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 11:17:02 -0600
From: "Dave Rench" <renchd@krause.com>
Subject: Re: Matchbox Hot Wheels

The Hotwheels Book you are referrring to is "Tomart's Guide" most major
chains should have it.  There were several 442 cars made through the years.
 Some current models that you might find are:

Black and Gold  1970 W-30 in the Target Cruisin' America Gift Pack - nice
car sold only in gift pack at Target Stores (Hotwheels)

Hotwheels ª267 Yellow 1970 W-30 still fairly common look at any major chain

Hotwheels Blue Steak 1970 442.  Just starting to show up.  As you might
guess, it is a blue car

Johnny Lightening also makes 69 and 70 442s  You might find the Indy pack
which can have either a 1970 Cutlass Pace Car (convertible) or a 1977 Delta
88. they are packaged with an Indy car from that year.  There are several
series of these cars and unfortunately only the first (Collectors) has the
correct color paint scheme.



- ----------
> From: Miguel Morales <Miguel.Morales@mci.com>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Matchbox Hot Wheels
> Date: Sunday, December 28, 1997 12:18 AM
>
> Check out a high-end book store. There is a book on "old" hotwheel
> prices,  and for the females,  also Barbie dolls.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 13:13:32 -0500 (EST)
From: The Sugarmans <sugarman@berkshire.net>
Subject: Re: Oil questions/gas question/how much is it worth?

On Mon, 29 Dec 1997, AARONLIFE wrote:

> In a message dated 97-12-28 17:52:23 EST, you write:
>
> << Kids are crying, thanks.
>   >>
>
> When I was a kid, I cried when my parents SOLD their 69 cutlass.
>

I cried when they sold it, too.  Then to see it converted for racing at
Lebenon Valley.  We'd pull up next to it at a light, now and then, and
could see your teeth marks in the vinyl upholstery by the back, side
window, where you bit a hole in it sitting in your car seat.  <getting
mushy>

Don


> aaron
>

sugarman@berkshire.net

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 13:57:30 -0500
From: Jerry Christopher <IThEFunKI@ViperLink.Net>
Subject: Re: Matchbox Hot Wheels

Dave Rench wrote:

> Johnny Lightening also makes 69 and 70 442s  You might find the Indy pack
> which can have either a 1970 Cutlass Pace Car (convertible) or a 1977 Delta
> 88. they are packaged with an Indy car from that year.  There are several
> series of these cars and unfortunately only the first (Collectors) has the
> correct color paint scheme.

Unless you are like me....  <G> The 77 Delta 88 in the JL stuff I just
bought today.  It'll be stripped (incorrect color) and repainted.
Red...  The wheels will be changed too...   I do this a lot...  <G>
- --
- - Jerry Christopher
- - HTTP://WWW2.Viperlink.Net/Members/IThEFunKI
- - 1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 13:55:46 EST
From: AARONLIFE <AARONLIFE@aol.com>
Subject: Re: non-performance question? 69 442 auto trans

In a message dated 97-12-29 11:45:49 EST, you write:

<< . the tranny shouldn't behave like that. >>

That's what i thought, my thought was, why would a 25 year old transmission
snap from first to second and chirp the tires without a problem, then hang up
or slip or whatever after the rebuild?  He said the engine was over-powering
it, and that's just the kind of statement that power-loving owners want to
hear - IT'S TOO POWERFUL!!!  WOW!!!

I'll have to search out someone good who's familiar with shift kits to look at
it.

Thanks,
aaron

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 13:55:44 EST
From: AARONLIFE <AARONLIFE@aol.com>
Subject: Re: non-performance question? 69 442 auto trans

In a message dated 97-12-29 11:37:58 EST, you write:

<< Good luck, let us know what
 happens.
  >>

I imagine I'll have to wait until after the car is fixed (rear-end).  Thanks
for the info.  I seem to remember he didn't quite get the shift-kit.

aaron

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 13:55:42 EST
From: AARONLIFE <AARONLIFE@aol.com>
Subject: Re: rental cars/wear and tear

In a message dated 97-12-29 11:17:31 EST, you write:

<< That's what rental cars go through...  U >>

A friend of mine has a creek on his Dad's property, and there's a bridge over
the creek, followed by a large over-flow that's basically a cement dip in the
road like this...
              \____/      only a little more curved,

Anyway, his dad would have rental cars, and he would take them and see how far
he could jump them, air time, off the upramp of that over-flow!

Aaron

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 14:09:02 EST
From: AARONLIFE <AARONLIFE@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Oil questions/gas question/how much is it worth?

In a message dated 97-12-29 13:16:28 EST, you write:

<< where you bit a hole in it sitting in your car seat.  >>

If you want, I can always bite the leather in the LSS :)

Strangely, I never lost one baby tooth, so at least one would match.

aaron

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 15:20:18 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: UNBOUNCE: Trans. Replace or Rebuild?

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:Tom Starkey <tstarkey@pop.dnvr.uswest.net>
Subject: Trans. Replace or Rebuild?

Hope all had a good start to the holiday season!

I've got a 68 Cutlass Supreme (350, 4 barrel) with a 2 speed automatic
transmission, I don't know any more about it than that. This thing leaks
transmission fluid like crazy, I've replaced the pan gasket and didn't
even slow it down. Other than leaking fluid, it seems to work alright.

I don't want a race car, just a daily driver that sounds nice and could
maybe go from stoplight to stoplight a little faster than most. My
question is, should I rebuild the existing transmission or should I
replace it with something else? Estimates to have it rebuilt run from
$450 to $650 dollars. One option I thought of was to try to install a
"seal kit" myself, does anyone have any experience/recommendations on
that?

Thanks!
Tom Starkey

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 14:25:11 -0500
From: Kathy Gerschutz <kgersch@bright.net>
Subject: engine codes

I bought my first car today, a 82 Cutlass Calais.  No keys for it yet but
hopefully I can get a steering wheel puller and fix that tonite.  It has the
buckets and ralley gauges, and really looks sharp (once I get it cleaned up).  
I
would like in the future to put in a 403 sb.  When looking for these I should
look for a "K" as the 5th digit right?  But on my VIN "K" is also the fifth
digit, and it has the 231.  I think all g-body calais's have "K47" as the 
fifth,
sixth, and seventh digit.   My VIN is: 2G3AK47A6C2389539.  This does not make
sense to me, could someone please clear this up.  Thanks.

Joe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 14:31:22 +0000
From: tcjmiami@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Radio Wiring

I have a 1970 Cutlass I lost one speaker and tried to trouble shoot
the problem - now no speakers.

Could anyone give me a schematic for the power / speaker connections.

This radio is a 8track / AM/FM. There is a black connector block on
drivers side rear of the radio. THere were two small female spade
connectors attached to the block. There is also a grey and blue wire
running to a molded plastic connector. One of the small
spade connetors was carring the power. All these were installed
by someone who was not "good" they were twisted together and
several were attached to the dash for a ground.

Any help would be appreciated.



------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 97 11:46:03 PST8
From: hpnaepflin@CCGATE.HAC.COM
Subject: Re: Oil questions/gas question

>Also, is there a way to convert it to run on unleaded gas instead of having to
>use lead additives?

This issue of lead requirements and valve seat damage on pre 71 engines has 
been
 discussed on and off on the list since the beginning and I'm kind of
skeptical.

Has anybody on the list actually experienced reduced valve life which could be
attributed to the use of unleaded gas?

Personally, my '70 Cutlass has run well over 100'000 miles since leaded gas was
phased out in California back in the mid 80's.  It did get an overhaul at 
160000
miles but that was because of a bad ring, the valves were fine.  Now this was
all everyday driving with a bit of boat trailer towing, no racing, but still 
I'm
skeptical.  I just don't buy this "coating" of lead on the valves making any
difference at all.

It may well be that this "lead requirement" for older engines has become a
"conventional wisdom" with no basis in fact.  Does anybody out there have any
authoritative facts.

I say if it runs well don't sweat the lead issue.  If the valve seats wear (and
my money is on they won't), that's that much sooner you get to rebuild your
engine the way you want it anyway, or better yet, drop in a 455!

Now octane effects, thats another story!

Hans

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 14:18:07 -0600
From: "Green, Andrew" <acg@datalogics.com>
Subject: Re: Headlight Knob, B/C bodies

>> The most time-consuming part to take off when I took off the LH bezel
>> was the headlight switch knob!  That this is a PIA to get off!
>
> Once I discovered the secret this is pretty easy. There's a spring
clip
> attached to the knob that holds it on the switch shaft and a little
slot
> on the base of the knob to access it... you just need to push the clip
> towards the back of the car with a very small screwdriver while
pulling on
> the knob and it coes right off. Extra points if you can do this
without
> turning the lights on! :)

The _other_ way, since we're on the subject, and a method which
works for most other models where you _can_ get at the body of
the headlight switch behind the dash, is to press a release button
found on the side of the switch body, after which you can pull out
the knob and shaft. Reassembly is just a matter of pressing the
shaft back in again until it clicks.

The down side to this method is that the release button only
operates with the knob/shaft pulled out to the On position (Official
Service Manual: "SO WHAT? YOU DISCONNECTED THE BATTERY
BEFORE YOU STARTED, DIDN'T YOU?" :-) but if you're careful you
press the switch back to the Off position without having it lock on to
the shaft again...
- --
Andrew C. Green             (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.            email: acg@datalogics.com
101 N. Wacker, Ste. 1800    http://www.datalogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301     Fax: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 15:34:23 -0500
From: Todd Morris <toddmorr@us.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: Oil questions/gas question

I agree with your skepticism.  We hear a lot about this but I have yet to
see a documented case of valve seat wear under daily driver conditions.
To tell you the truth, I've not met anyone who had that problem even under
extreme duty conditions.  I'd agree--just happily drive the car, without the
additives and you'll be fine.  I did just this with two cars--70 Cutlass and
65 Caprice, with no problems at all....

>This issue of lead requirements and valve seat damage on pre 71 engines has
been
> discussed on and off on the list since the beginning and I'm kind of
>skeptical.

>Has anybody on the list actually experienced reduced valve life which could be
>attributed to the use of unleaded gas?

Todd Morris
71 442

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 12:48:58 -0800
From: Erik <erikreb@netbridge.net>
Subject: Re: 80' Cutlass Supreme

The Sugarmans wrote:
>
> On Mon, 29 Dec 1997, Daren & Laurie Hendley wrote:
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Robert F. Newbegin Jr. <senator@itis.com>
> >
> > >(Olds never made a 350 with a 2-barrel.  Chev. did.)
> >
> > They made a lot of 350's with 2 bbl. carbs. From '68 to the mid to late 
'70s
> >
> > Daren
> >
> >
>
> I'll second that.  My gold '69 Cutlass S 2-door, with black vinyl top,
> purchased new from the dealer, had a 350 w/ 2 bbl.  Man we loved that car!
>
> Don
>
> sugarman@berkshire.net

I'll third that.  My '72 Cutlass S 2-door came with a 350 w/ 2 bbl. too.

Erik B
'72 Cutlass

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 15:08:17 -0600
From: "babbott@pdnt.com" <babbott@pdnt.com>
Subject: Re: 80' Cutlass Supreme

I'll fourth that, my '70 Cutlass supreme had a 350 2bbl when I bought it.
Gosh, don't ya know nuthin. 8}

- ----------
> From: Erik <erikreb@netbridge.net>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: 80' Cutlass Supreme
> Date: Monday, December 29, 1997 2:48 PM
>
> The Sugarmans wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, 29 Dec 1997, Daren & Laurie Hendley wrote:
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Robert F. Newbegin Jr. <senator@itis.com>
> > >
> > > >(Olds never made a 350 with a 2-barrel.  Chev. did.)
> > >
> > > They made a lot of 350's with 2 bbl. carbs. From '68 to the mid to
late '70s
> > >
> > > Daren
> > >
> > >
> >
> > I'll second that.  My gold '69 Cutlass S 2-door, with black vinyl top,
> > purchased new from the dealer, had a 350 w/ 2 bbl.  Man we loved that
car!
> >
> > Don
> >
> > sugarman@berkshire.net
>
> I'll third that.  My '72 Cutlass S 2-door came with a 350 w/ 2 bbl. too.
>
> Erik B
> '72 Cutlass

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 15:07:30 -0600 (CST)
From: Bryceman <bryceman@442.com>
Subject: servo motor_Forwarded

>From: Phillip Alan Lamb <phillil@redoak.heartland.net>
>Subject: servo motor ???
>Status:
>
>I used to be on the Olds email list, but there was too much email for me to
>handle with some of the other lists I was on.  I was hoping you could put me
>in touch with a company or someone who could find some 12 volt servo motors.
>I want to put rear speakers in my 61 dynamic 88 without them being seen
>except for when I have the stereo powered up or I raise the speakers with
>servo motors from under the rear deck.  I had an old friend who did this on
>a 1957 Chevy, but can't find the motors to do this in my area.  I have
>talked to parts stores in my area and they just laugh at me when I ask the
>question.
>
>I have seen this done and looks very professional.  If you have any ideas,
>or can forward this to the list I would be very greatful.  Thank you in
>advance for your cooperation.
>

Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Oldsmobiles!
'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender
'65 442 Post Coupe
'65 Vista Cruiser
'72 H/O Convertible Pace Car Replica
Email: bryceman@442.com  URL: www.442.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 16:18:23 -0500
From: "MICHAEL S ROTHE" <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Noise

>I recently got a ticket for my car being to loud.  It is running blown
>glass packs, but the glass packs have been on the car before any "noise"
>laws.  I can prove that my car had these muffelers for the previous
>owners.  Is there any way for me to get out of this one?

Can't vouch for California, but many states won't grandfather laws such as
this one.  Unless you can find the grandfather clause in the law
specifically stating it as such somewhere.  You either comply by the
enactment date of the law, or suffer the consequences.  Your best bet is to
consult an attorney, who MAY be able to wriggle you out of it.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 15:34:36 -0600 (CST)
From: Bryceman <bryceman@442.com>
Subject: Rear Control Arms

It is my understanding that lower rear control arms are same for a A body
cars from '64-'72, right?
Anyone know if the length of these arms are same on Vista Cruiser,
specifically '65?

Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Oldsmobiles!
'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender
'65 442 Post Coupe
'65 Vista Cruiser
'72 H/O Convertible Pace Car Replica
Email: bryceman@442.com  URL: www.442.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 16:31:17 -0500
From: "MICHAEL S ROTHE" <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Oil questions/gas question

>>Has anybody on the list actually experienced reduced valve life which
could be
>>attributed to the use of unleaded gas?

I have not personally, but I know someone who has, I think.  It was a chevy
BB though.  He raced the car almost every weekend.  It beat his exhaust
seats up pretty bad.   Now I'm not saying it was the no-lead causing the
problem, but it developed some serious case of "no power" in it and it was
attributed to bad exhaust seats on 6 out of the 8 upon
inspection/disassembly.  He had about 50K on the head redo.  I did
personally talk to Joe Mondello some years back on this.  He said that for
everyday runaround driving, you will not likely see any effects of using
no-lead on pre-71 Oldses.  However, he said that noticable increased wear
would occur if you were doing high speed runs a lot, for instance, drag
racing often.  I personally think that if you drive reasonably, that it
shouldn't be much of a problem in the pre-71s.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 16:11:09 -0500
From: "Erik Gertsen" <ainode@frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Oil Consumption (was Re: Back!)

- -----Original Message-----
From: AARONLIFE <AARONLIFE@aol.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Monday, December 29, 1997 12:17 PM
Subject: Re: Oil Consumption (was Re: Back!)


>In a message dated 97-12-29 01:47:02 EST, you write:
>
><< What really burns my *ss is that it never used a *drop* of oil (less
> than '85) until I tried a 1/2 bottle of Duralube... >>
>
>Supposedly those products improve initial HP and gas mileage which is why
race
>car drivers use them.  According to what I've read, Slick 50's own tests
>found, over-time, that engine wear is increased!  Which is why race-car
>drivers don't mind using it, and recommend it - short term it works
wonders.
>It also supposedly plugs up oil filters.
>
>I put Slick 50 in after my engine was rebuilt :(.
>
>aaron
>
>Oh god please tell me you did not put dura-junk in your car!
apparently what they dont tell you is that the lubricant is chlorine
based,wich in an on screen test,looks extremely good,but over long periods
actually corrodes the hell out of your engine.
sorry to hear it! i put a can of restore in my C*maro and anything in there
that made noise shut up immediately.

Good luck,and watch out for those comparisons.

Erik
73 Delta 88 455

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 15:11:24 -0700
From: Charley Buehner <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Re: Spoiler on Reilly's '86 Cutlass...  (Re: What did Santa leave 
you!)

> I'm interested in hearing about this spoiler you "grafted" onto the '86
> Cutlass, from a Firebird.  What year Firebird, what type of spoiler, where is
> it from, etc.  Also, are you going to have any pics. of it on your webpage so
> we can "approve" of it. :-)

That's what the Rockit has, from an '82 Firebird.  It needs to be
elevated about 1/4" to clear the tips from the rear 1/4 panels.  I've
got pics on my page of that one (scattered around!)
- --
               Charley Buehner -- The Oldsmobile Magnet
For Me:  mailto:buehner@lyrea.com       mailto:charley@rocketship.com
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner
    Sidney Radio Shack:     mailto:redline_av@webtv.net
        Sidney Montana

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 18:11:19 -0500
From: Jerry Christopher <IThEFunKI@ViperLink.Net>
Subject: Re: rental cars/wear and tear

AARONLIFE wrote:
>
> In a message dated 97-12-29 11:17:31 EST, you write:
>
> << That's what rental cars go through...  U >>

> Anyway, his dad would have rental cars, and he would take them and see how 
far
> he could jump them, air time, off the upramp of that over-flow!

See, I knew it! <G> I see all kinds, I even saw one at the race track, a
97 Monte Carlo..  Got the unit number, and made a hint to the management
<EG>.  Heck, I learned how to do "reverse doughnuts" in a 97 Astro Van,
where the van is in drive (as opposed to reverse) and the FRONT end
doughnuts..  Not the best of ideas...  I've even gotten the Blazers (97)
with 4WD to chrip the 4 Wheels...  Drove around with a Blazer, for about
6 Hours in the airport (shuttling cars from service center to Airport)
with it in 4WD Hi, and Low when I was the only one in the thing.  We
used to put the parking brake on the FWD cars, and let the front ends
scream, oddly, the traction systems wouldn't engage on slick
concrete...  I then learned how to clean up burnt rubber (so I wouldn't
get caught), we had a mechanic forget to put oil in after an oil change,
and drove the car 2 miles, walked back, put in 4 QTS of oil, and drove
it back, sent it out on rent, where it finally threw a rod.  I see ALL
kinds of torture, some company inflicted, some customer inflicted.
- --
- - Jerry Christopher
- - HTTP://WWW2.Viperlink.Net/Members/IThEFunKI
- - 1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 18:23:51 -0500
From: "deirdre. reilly" <102724.635@compuserve.com>
Subject: re:  Spoiler on Reilly's '86 Cutlass...

I originally wrote:
> I bought my brother a rear spoiler from a Firebird for his '86 Cutlass.
We
> just finished putting it on this morning.  It's a tight fit but looks
real
> nice!

Chris Ruper wrote:
>I'm interested in hearing about this spoiler you "grafted" onto the '86
>Cutlass, from a Firebird.  What year Firebird, what type of spoiler, where
is
>it from, etc.  Also, are you going to have any pics. of it on your webpage
so
>we can "approve" of it. :-)

Chris,
        I'm not sure what year Firebird it was, probably from the mid 80's.
 The spoiler seems to be a fairly common item on these cars, but difficult
to find in a salvage yard.  Occasionally I'll also see them on Camaros of
the same vintage.  It looks simialr to the '83-'84 H/O wing but the
pedastals don't seem as tall, it's not as wide as the H/O wing either, and
it has no separate wingtips to lose (ie. all one piece).

        As for the close fit statement, because it's not as tall and not as
wide the tips hang kinda low, and rub the tops of the rear quarter panels,
so you have to push down real hard to get the trunk latch to catch .  It's
just a tad bit wider than the trunk lid.

I believe my brother took a picture of it, but we unfortuantely don't have
a web site to post it.  Bryceman never put up some pictures I sent him
earlier this year, so maybe it's about time to send him some pics of both
our cars.

I'll keep you posted if that happens.

Bill Reilly
'85 Cutlass Supreme
'83 Cutlass Ciera

Sean Reilly
'86 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 18:46:42 -0500
From: Jim Hurd <jhurd@neo.lrun.com>
Subject: 87 olds salon

Olds Fanatics,

        I am currently looking at an 87 olds salon, with 87k miles.  Body is
in near mint condition, no noticeable rust, and appears to be original
bodywork and paint.  It has the 307 (vin. Y, it could be a 9 I didn't
check), with the AOD (4 speed) trans, ralley guages, pwseat, windows locks,
air, cruise, tilt, ralley sport wheels, rear swaybar, No T-Tops.  The car
has been undercoated and runs very smooth.  I didn't drive it as we were
short on time.  I would like to know what the car is worth and if it will
appreciate in value in the future, as it seems to be the same car as a 442
(without that option package, W30?).  Any comments and input would be
apreciated.

        I use to have (still do) a '79 olds cutlass supreme brougham (260
v8) but was t-boned in the drivers door.  I found myself getting very
attached to this style of car and am looking for another.  TIA




Jim H.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 19:18:17 -0500
From: "Jason K. Adcock" <jadcock@vt.edu>
Subject: Weird Plug Symptoms (No Q's this time!)

Hi everyone.  Believe it or not, there are no questions this time!  Just
reporting some weird happenings with my spark plugs.  If you can
remember, I got Rapidfires for Christmas and put them in and they ran
like crap.  The things have a gap at 35 thousandths and they say to not
regap them.  The spec. for the car is 80 thousandths.  That means that
with the stock gap, the spark has more time to build and will be a
stronger spark, right?  With the Rapidfires, with the small gap, the
spark will come sooner and be smaller, therefore running like crap.  Am
I totally off base here?  (Alright, just a few questions... :-)

That made sense to me.  Next, I put in the stock plugs and the car ran
nice and smooth again.  Great...now to return the Rapidfires for some
new AC's (R46SX; what I had in the car).  With a $20 difference
(cheaper) I brought home the AC's and put them in and ran the car.  The
idle is still rough, though not stalling.  And the really weird thing is
that the idle will be NOTICEABLY rougher if I hold the brake and let the
car creep forward than if I hold the car still.  Hmmm.  So the only
plugs I can get to work right are +30k mile AC Delcos.  I guess I'll put
the old ones back in and run them until one of them dies.(

Lessee here:

Old Delcos to Rapidfires (ran like crap)
Rapidfires to Old Delcos (ran smooth again)
Old Delcos to New Delcos (idle is rough again)
New Delcos to Old Delcos (we'll see how this swap turns out tomorrow)

This is an average of one spark plug set swap per day (over the last
four days) for a total of 32 spark plugs.  Just to start a thread, who
here has changed the most spark plugs over a short period of time?  I'm
sure 32 plugs for 4 days can be beaten...

So long for now...I promise to stop posting!  :-)

Cheers/
Jason

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 17:14:48 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: 84 88 parting out

Hey all,

I have an 84 88 Royale Brougham thatI will be parting out or selling
(almost) complete to anyone interested.

The trans has been claimed and the gear shifter.
I will sell the entire car sans trans and all for $500 obo,
or sell to you what you need for cheap.
I am not really connected to my e-mail access for the next couple of
weeks, souse the old fashioned telophone technique for any questions.

Ray Costanzo
(215) 453-0773
Philadelphia area.

I will be driving back out to AZ on Jan. 10th, and could drop things off
to anyone along the way.


Ray dealing with "El Nino" in the Sonoran Desert Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass
  actually, dealing with the damn snow in the northeast now!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 19:33:48 EST
From: CRuper1 <CRuper1@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Oil questions/gas question

In a message dated 97-12-29 16:41:28 EST, you write:

<<
 I have not personally, but I know someone who has, I think.  It was a chevy
 BB though.  He raced the car almost every weekend.  It beat his exhaust
 seats up pretty bad.   Now I'm not saying it was the no-lead causing the
 problem, but it developed some serious case of "no power" in it and it was
 attributed to bad exhaust seats on 6 out of the 8 upon
 inspection/disassembly.  He had about 50K on the head redo.  I did
 personally talk to Joe Mondello some years back on this.  He said that for
 everyday runaround driving, you will not likely see any effects of using
 no-lead on pre-71 Oldses.  However, he said that noticable increased wear
 would occur if you were doing high speed runs a lot, for instance, drag
 racing often.  I personally think that if you drive reasonably, that it
 shouldn't be much of a problem in the pre-71s.

 Mike Rothe >>

Uhhh.. one other thing I didn't mention in my previous post.  50K on a single
valve job, when the car is races (ie: used very heavily) is probably not out
of line (I realize that all of those 50K weren't put on at the races, but with
that amount of miles, and the heavy abuse of racing (especially if racing bi-
weekly) will accelerate the wear immensely).

Chris Ruper

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 19:30:23 EST
From: CRuper1 <CRuper1@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Oil questions/gas question

In a message dated 97-12-29 16:41:28 EST, you write:

<<
 >>Has anybody on the list actually experienced reduced valve life which
 could be
 >>attributed to the use of unleaded gas?

 I have not personally, but I know someone who has, I think.  It was a chevy
 BB though.  He raced the car almost every weekend.  It beat his exhaust
 seats up pretty bad.   Now I'm not saying it was the no-lead causing the
 problem, but it developed some serious case of "no power" in it and it was
 attributed to bad exhaust seats on 6 out of the 8 upon
 inspection/disassembly.  He had about 50K on the head redo.  I did
 personally talk to Joe Mondello some years back on this.  He said that for
 everyday runaround driving, you will not likely see any effects of using
 no-lead on pre-71 Oldses.  However, he said that noticable increased wear
 would occur if you were doing high speed runs a lot, for instance, drag
 racing often.  I personally think that if you drive reasonably, that it
 shouldn't be much of a problem in the pre-71s.

 Mike Rothe
  >>

A couple of questions here.  First, is this someone who may have been using
racing gas (typically running drags on weekends, so it's possible), and if so,
aren't racing gasses usually leaded.  I'm getting at whether it was the
unleaded gas, or something else.  Just curious, you may not even know one wya
or the other, since it wasn't you.

Chris Ruper

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 19:38:08 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: got for xmas

For Christmas Santa gave me the Oldsmobile Restoration Guide, a book on how to
redo your interior, a 100.00 gift certificate to the Parts Place, a book
called Muscle Cars American Thunder (very good book), and some parts from Year
one.
.
.
Today, I got a dipstick tube, two cans of gold paint, a
Transpak, and an oil pickup.
===============
I got a '69 H/O, looks like new. I can't drive it, though. :-)

Is the Restoration guide the common T. Patrick Sulivan book with the yellow '70
W30 on the cover? If so, we should start a FAQ section listing the errata in
that book... I swear, every page has 1-3 errors. Like the '67 442 shown on
pages 39-40. Photos taken in the '80's? show side marker lights. That's funny,
because '67's did not HAVE side marker lights. Fine, if the owner wants to add
them, but in a RESTORATION GUIDE it ought be pointed out that that is not
correct; it's an addition that the owner made. [very sell, I might add, looks
like '68 markers!]

That reminds me, there was a Cars & Parts magazine show on this weekend- guy
replacing a thermostat,  belt & a hose on his pre-'65 Starfire. What a joke! He
puts a lame-ass one-size fits all ribbed hose on. Tosses the old clamps in
favor of stainless worm-drive clamps [yech!]. Drains out some nasty rusty crap
from the radiator, but never mentions a flush & fluid change. Again, this was
billed as a "restoration" tips part of the show. Sorry, but that's "cobble-ass
keep an old car going" work, not "restoration."

- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
         >>> Please snip the excess lines from posts <<<

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 19:44:15 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: Starkey trans woes

transmission, I don't know any more about it than that. This thing leaks
fluid like crazy, I've replaced the pan gasket and didn't even slow it
down. Other than leaking fluid, it seems to work alright.

I don't want a race car, just one that sounds nice and could maybe go
from stoplight to stoplight a little faster than most. My question is,
should I rebuild the existing transmission or should I replace it with
something else? Estimates to have it rebuilt run from $450 to $650
dollars. One option I thought of was to try to install a "seal kit"
myself, does anyone have any experience/recommendations on that?
Tom Starkey
=================
Hmmmm....
- -works fine except for leak. Therefore, does not need a rebuild.
- -you just want it drivable.

Just go get the leak fixed! Take to a competent independant garage, NOT a trans
shop or a Chain-store repair place. Tell them to stop the leak for cheap. If
it's the front seal, you've mitaswelled your way into rear, fill tube, and
shifter seals too, 'cause the trans has to come out. Still, Way, way less than
$500 all told. Probably $200 labor & $30 parts.
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
         >>> Please snip the excess lines from posts <<<

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 19:50:55 -0500
From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Subject: 10 things in this world you need to fix any car, any place, any time

A friend just sent me this, thought some might enjoy...

- --------------------------------------------------------

There are only ten things in this world you need to fix any
car, any place, any time.

1. Duct Tape: Not just a tool, a veritable Swiss Army knife in stickum
and plastic.  It's safety wire, body material, radiator hose,
upholstery, insulation, tow rope, and more in one easy-to-carry
package.  Sure, there's a prejudice surrounding duct tape in concourse
competitions, but in the real world everything from LeMans -
winning Porsches to Atlas rockets - uses it by the yard.  The only thing
that can get you out of more scrapes is a quarter and a phone booth.

2. Vice-Grips: Equally adept as a wrench, hammer, pliers, baling wire
twister, breaker-off of frozen bolts, and wiggle-it-till-it-falls off
tool.  The heavy artillery of your toolbox, Vice Grips are the only tool
designed expressly to fix things screwed up beyond repair.

3. Spray Lubricants: A considerably cheaper alternative to new doors,
alternators, and other squeaky items.  Slicker than pig phlegm.
Repeated soakings of WD-40 will allow the main hull bolts of the
Andrea Dora to be removed by hand.  Strangely enough, an integral part
of these sprays is the infamous little red tube that flies out of the
nozzle if you look at it cross-eyed, one of the ten worst tools of all
time.

4. Margarine Tubs With Clear Lids: If you spend all your time under
the hood looking for a frendle pin that caremed off the peedle valve
when you knocked both off the air cleaner, it's because you eat
butter.  Real mechanics consume pounds of tasteless vegetable oil
replicas, just so they can use the empty tubs for parts containers
afterward.  (Some, of course, chuck the butter-colored goo altogether
or use it to repack wheel bearings.) Unlike air cleaners and radiator
lips, margarine tubs aren't connected by a time/space wormhole to the
Parallel Universe of Lost Frendle Pins.

5. Big Rock : Block up a tire.  Smack corroded
battery terminals.  Pound out a dent.  Bop nosy know-it-all types on
the noodle.  Scientists have yet to develop a hammer that packs the raw
banging power of granite or limestone.  This is the only tool with
which a "made in India" emblem is not synonymous with the user's
maiming.

6. Plastic Zip Ties: After twenty years of lashing down stray hoses
and wired with old bread ties, some genius brought a slightly
slicked up version to the auto parts market.  Fifteen zip ties can
transform a hulking mass of amateur-quality rewiring from a working
model of the Brazilian rain forest into something remotely resembling a
wiring harness.  Of course, it works both ways.  When buying used
cars, subtract $100.00 for each zip tie under the hood.

7. Ridiculously Large Standard Screwdriver:
Let's admit it.  There's nothing better for prying, chiseling,
lifting, breaking, splitting, or mutilating than a huge flat-bladed
screwdriver, particularly when wielded with gusto and a big hammer.
This is also the tool of choice for oil filters so insanely located they
can
only be removed by driving a stake in one side and out the other.  If
you break the screwdriver - and you will, just like Dad or your shop
teacher said - who cares? It's guaranteed.

8. Bailing Wire: Commonly known as MG muffler brackets, bailing wire
holds anything that's too hot for tape or ties.  Like duct tape, it's
not recommended for concourse contenders since it works so well you'll
never replace it with the right thing again.  Bailing wire is a
sentimental favorite in some circles, particularly with MG, Triumph,
and flathead Ford set.

9. Bonking Stick: This monstrous tuning fork with devilishly pointy
ends is technically known as a tie-rod- end separator, but how often do
you separate tie-ends?  Once every decade, if you're lucky.  Other than
medieval combat, its real use is the all purpose application of undue
force, not unlike that of the huge flat-bladed screwdriver.  Nature
doesn't know the bent metal panel or frozen exhaust pipe that can stand
up to a good bonking stick. (Can also be used to separate tie-rod ends
in a pinch, of course, but does a lousy job of it).

10. A Quarter: For a phone call if all else fails.
- --
Kurt Heinrich  (mailto:old442@erols.com)
71 442         (see it at http://www.442.com/heinrich.html)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 19:56:53 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: Aaron's 400/455

- -about swapping to a 455, problems with...
Alternator brackets, air cond. brackets, pwr steering, etc.

[[Note 1: No, all Olds big blocks are externally identical in that respect,
barring one minor notation to be covered shortly.]]

I actually came across an ad the other day for a "455 Rocket plus trans,
strong, low mileage, drive car come. $500"  How does one know if it's a
short/long block?

[[Drive car home... sounds like it comes with the whole car. That's definately
at LEAST a long block. A Very Long Block, I guess. Maybe a block-long long
block! Looooooooooooong block? Great deal, esp. if the year is pre-'73. Esp. if
the year is '68-9.]]

What's a good price for a 455 short block?

[[I like to buy 'em for under $100, and I like to sell 'em for $100-500
depending on condition, parts included, etc. YMMV. ]]

If I kept all the usables from my rebuilt 400, what new parts would the 455
need to guarantee long-term usability, and max power/performance?  Would my
new fuel pump fit?

[[ See Note 1 above. The only differences in Olds big blocks which have their
correct flexplate, damper, etc. in place... is internal- bore & stroke sizes,
rod length, piston specifics, etc. As a whole, mix-n-match at will. ]]

Found an Edlebrock torquer intake for $99 for an Olds 455 (is that a good
idea? would it give me anything? would it fit using all my 400 parts?)

[[ Sounds like a good buy. Will it fit? See Note 1 above. ]]

Are all 455 short blocks the same?  Year wise?

[[ Yes & no. Some have lower compression pistons- not an issue if you are
getting new ones anyhow. Later blocks, typically with an Fa casting ID have
lost the boss where the clutch z-bar used to mount, which affects only manual
trans applications. If you are using it in AT car, all 455 blocks are pretty
much fungible for street use. Rumors of rear-face "F0" etc. codes having more
nickel, but no one can seem to document that. Some are more likely to have a
Nodular crank, might even have a forged crank. Not likely though. ]]

If I sold my 400 (20K miles on it), would it pay for a good deal of a rebuilt
or nice 455?

[[ Well, probably not. Hard to sell a 400, even to a diehard '68-9 fan. You'd
be ahead to find a place to stash it. Unless you get lucky. 'Course, you
*could* advertise it as a "big block Olds" stick a "rocket 455" air cleaner lid
on it, and play dumb ;-) ]]
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
         >>> Please snip the excess lines from posts <<<

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 19:58:54 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: intake removal

From: CCRR12 <CCRR12@aol.com>
 None of the other attachments should be holding down the manifold. Just crud,
sealer, and time. Use the bigger hammer method. Use a large screwdriver or
chisel and drive it under the intake working on an area that is well
supported. On the sides against a flat surface of the heads is best. Work one
side then the other. When it comes free you will see that your work has just
begun. Randy in Okla
=========================
Aye!
Please, do not cram stuff in between intake and other parts at the gasket
surface! There's a handy boss on the intake, just under the t'stat, where you
can pry off the timing cover with a piece of WOOD, say, and it'll break loose
real nice.
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
         >>> Please snip the excess lines from posts <<<

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 20:02:05 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: 400/455 diffs

8583 ª on front of oil filler tube (stampeed)
394-548 ª stamped on heads

isn't there a ª on the block?
please tell me it's not behind the alternator brackets...
.
.
All 400's were bronze in color.  All 455's were blue.
Brad Otto
==============
That oil fill tube ª needs a few more digits. Sounds like a '68 G-400 from what
we've heard so far.

If it was a '67, there'd be no VIN stuff under the head at the front left
corner, but an ID code/ª stamped on the front of the RH head or rear of LH head
if heads got swapped during rebuild. Still be C heads, but an E or D block in
'67. All is revealed in the FAQ.

Not *all* 455's were blue, btw, some were RED. All 400's were Bronze.
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
         >>> Please snip the excess lines from posts <<<

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 20:07:18 -0500
From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Noise

Brad Bowles wrote:
>
> I recently got a ticket for my car being to loud.  It is running blown
> glass packs, but the glass packs have been on the car before any "noise"
> laws.  I can prove that my car had these muffelers for the previous
> owners.

I think the ~only~ way you could get around this is if it came from the
FACTORY with glass packs.  I don't believe the gendarmes could car less
what the previous owner did.

- --
Kurt Heinrich  (mailto:old442@erols.com)
71 442         (see it at http://www.442.com/heinrich.html)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 20:07:42 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: 68 wood wheel

From: RPTW32 <RPTW32@aol.com>
Subject: Re: MI swap meet
The woodgrain three spoke you refer to came only on
the Hurst Olds as a option in 68.

[[ Don't think so... my brother parted out a plain Cutlass about 10 years ago,
that had one of these wheels. I have it in the trunk of my convertible. ]]

There was no wood rim wheel for 69.  I would put my money on the three spoke
vinyl wheel with the ribs in the rim is also the 68 "Sport wheel" and the
deluxe is more like what most people all the stock wheel. The base stock wheel
is really a plain jane plastic wheel with two thin horizontal pieces from
center hub to each side of rim with horn in center of hub.

[[ Isn't that just like the marketing dpet. of a car company...
There is practically *no* ordinary wheel, the most basic one is called "DeLuxe"
even though that's supposed to mean more than the bare minimum. ]]

These are probably more rare then the sport wheels as people that bought
Oldsmobiles to begin with had class to start with and usually opted for the
better packages.  Rob Thomas
=================
[[ No doubt. I was sure surprised to see my convertible with MANUAL brakes, all
Olds I had had before that were PS, PB, often PSeat, etc.
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
         >>> Please snip the excess lines from posts <<<

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 20:09:22 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: white-knob window cranks

> Did they actually make these with white knobs? I've never seen them. You
> don't mean clear, do you? I know those are available as a "H*LP" part. I

Oh yes they did come in white.  I know I have white in my 68 442.  Very
hard to find replacements.
===========

I think a 69 parts car I have has these. Otherwise very white interior. Whover
wanted these feel free to email me privately.
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
         >>> Please snip the excess lines from posts <<<

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 20:03:26 -0500
From: "MICHAEL S ROTHE" <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: 87 olds salon

> I would like to know what the car is worth and if it will
>appreciate in value in the future, as it seems to be the same car as a 442
>(without that option package, W30?).  Any comments and input would be
>apreciated.


Well, I'm not sure about the market value down the road, but if things hold
true to form for most Oldses, it will probably start gaining lots of
interest in about 10 more years.  I personally like them now as well as I
did when they were new.  Case in point, the mid-70's versions are getting
EXTREMELY more popular nowadays, so I think it's probably about another 5-10
years before we really see the mid 80s versions to be hot.  Just
speculating.  The option package you are referring to is the W42 "442
package" and was the only option the engine code "9" was available in  for
the Cutlass line.   All other V8s were a "Y" code.

If it's clean, drives well, and it has somewhat relatively low mileage, then
I'm gonna shoot in the dark and say it's probably worth around 3500-4K.  But
that's just a guess.  442's are going for around that price, maybe just a
bit more, but again, depends on the seller.  I've seen clean ones go for
cheap, and grungy ones that they wanted a gold mine for.   How much is it
worth to YOU?

2 cents,
Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 20:15:37 -0500
From: "MICHAEL S ROTHE" <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Oil questions/gas question

>A couple of questions here.  First, is this someone who may have been using
>racing gas (typically running drags on weekends, so it's possible), and if
so,
>aren't racing gasses usually leaded.  I'm getting at whether it was the
>unleaded gas, or something else.  Just curious, you may not even know one
wya
>or the other, since it wasn't you.


Race gas can be purchased either way, leaded or unleaded.  It was unleaded
race gas he used.  He never put anything else in it as far as I know.  I was
in his garage when the heads came off.  Amazingly the intakes looked super,
but the exhausts were kinda screwed.  50K on a head job should be of no
consequence to the way these exhaust seats looked.  They looked like they
had 150K on them.  Of course, BB chevy's are a different animal, it could
have been timing/heat/etc., and I really don't care if he kills it.  (I keep
telling him to let me give him a 455 to put in it  :) )   Like I said, I
can't say for sure it was because he ran unleaded, it's just that HE claimed
it was because of that.  Personally, I can't say one way or another, it's
just that I have never personally experienced valve problems with unleaded
gas.   There may be truth to the fact that if you run it hard all the time,
it could screw something up, but it wouldn't matter what gas you used,
running hard can cause a lot of stress on the engine parts.  I just don't
think it's any concern one way or another for a street engine.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 17:27:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Edwin Burger <erb22@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: UNBOUNCE: Trans. Replace or Rebuild?

Most junkyards would sell you a used GM TH350 transmission for around
$150.  If a TH350 would bolt up to your 350, you should look into
that.  Also, overdrive transmissions from late 80's to early 90's
Camaro's and Firebirds will bolt on wherever a TH350 will.  They'll be
much pricier though.

Ed




- ---Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca> wrote:
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From:Tom Starkey <tstarkey@pop.dnvr.uswest.net>
> Subject: Trans. Replace or Rebuild?
>
> Hope all had a good start to the holiday season!
>
> I've got a 68 Cutlass Supreme (350, 4 barrel) with a 2 speed automatic
> transmission, I don't know any more about it than that. This thing
leaks
> transmission fluid like crazy, I've replaced the pan gasket and didn't
> even slow it down. Other than leaking fluid, it seems to work alright.
>
> I don't want a race car, just a daily driver that sounds nice and
could
> maybe go from stoplight to stoplight a little faster than most. My
> question is, should I rebuild the existing transmission or should I
> replace it with something else? Estimates to have it rebuilt run from
> $450 to $650 dollars. One option I thought of was to try to install a
> "seal kit" myself, does anyone have any experience/recommendations on
> that?
>
> Thanks!
> Tom Starkey
>
>

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 20:42:18 -0500
From: "M&D Gillespie" <mgillespie@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Weird Plug Symptoms (No Q's this time!)

- -----Original Message-----
From: Jason K. Adcock <jadcock@vt.edu>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Monday, December 29, 1997 7:22 PM
Subject: Weird Plug Symptoms (No Q's this time!)


snip
>I got Rapidfires for Christmas and put them in and they ran
>like crap.

I also got Rapidfires and they also run like crap. The car stumbles
like crazy until really warmed up. After that it misses badly above
3500 rpm. I blamed the problem on the fact that the PF's are one range
colder than the equivalent AC Delcos I had in before. The car used to
be a two barrel but now I've got a four barrel. The new plugs are the
specified heat range for a 350 4v. but does just changing the carb
require a colder plug or is it more based on compression ratio? Like
an idiot, I threw out the original AC Delcos. They were pretty far
gone though. I also changed to an open element air cleaner with a K&N
filter at the same time, so I could have leaned it out to the point
that the carb needs re-jetted. It may not be the RC's at all. Has
anyone else had experiences, pro or con with these plugs.

Mick Gillespie
69 Cutlass S convertible
OCAª 29770
mgillespie@sprynet.com
http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/mgillespie/oldspage.htm

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 17:47:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Edwin Burger <erb22@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: putting headers on the '70 442

Thanks!  What do you mean by "the starter will have to come down?"

Ed




- ---John Gill <jgill@idmi.com> wrote:
>
> Ed,
>
> I was ready for new exhaust so I put a set of ceramic coated 1 7/8"
> Hooker's on my 70 W30 last summer.  There is no escaping the fact
that good
> parts are expensive but the quality remains long after the price is
> forgotten.  Hookers arguably fit better that any other make
available - and
> I believe it.  The only tight spot was where the brake proportioning
valve
> had to be moved about an inch down the frame.  I paid nearly $425
for these
> units but they will never rust like so many others do and getting
headers
> coated from the manufacturer is still cheaper than shipping your
headers to
> one of the companies that "coat" them for you.
>
> Nevertheless, I did the header job by myself and it took about 12-14
solid
> hours (a full weekend).  The starter will have to come down, the oil
filter
> and oil filter adapter, and a little rerouting of the automatic
> transmission cooler lines will probably be necessary.  The Olds 455
is so
> wide that headers pipes will make relatively sharp turns right off
of the
> flanges.  This makes a few of the header bolt tricky to install in the
> heads.  Bring some patience and small fingers along.
>
> One regret - use the new copper exhaust header-to-head gaskets from
Mr.
> Gasket (another $25).  These seal right the first time and are much
less
> likely blow out.  Don't forget to re-torque the gaskets after
heating up
> the motor once.
>
> Good luck!
>
> John Gill
> Cleveland, OH
> jgill@idmi.com
>
> ----------
> > From: Edwin Burger <erb22@yahoo.com>
> > To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> > Subject: putting headers on the '70 442
> > Date: Friday, December 26, 1997 1:28 PM
> >
> > Thanks everyone for you info on the lip for the hood!
> >
> > I'm putting headers on the 442, since it needs a new exhaust
anyway.
> > Does anyone here have any experience with headers for a 455, and
more
> > specifically, how easy it is to fit them into a 442?  I wanted
headers
> > that would make a lot of torque (tri-y headers?).  Does anyone
know of
> > a company that makes headers that wont cost me more than the rest of
> > car?
> >
> > Thanks bunches,
> >
> > Ed
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________
> > DO YOU YAHOO!?
> > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
>

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 17:47:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Edwin Burger <erb22@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: putting headers on the '70 442

Thanks!  What do you mean by "the starter will have to come down?"

Ed




- ---John Gill <jgill@idmi.com> wrote:
>
> Ed,
>
> I was ready for new exhaust so I put a set of ceramic coated 1 7/8"
> Hooker's on my 70 W30 last summer.  There is no escaping the fact
that good
> parts are expensive but the quality remains long after the price is
> forgotten.  Hookers arguably fit better that any other make
available - and
> I believe it.  The only tight spot was where the brake proportioning
valve
> had to be moved about an inch down the frame.  I paid nearly $425
for these
> units but they will never rust like so many others do and getting
headers
> coated from the manufacturer is still cheaper than shipping your
headers to
> one of the companies that "coat" them for you.
>
> Nevertheless, I did the header job by myself and it took about 12-14
solid
> hours (a full weekend).  The starter will have to come down, the oil
filter
> and oil filter adapter, and a little rerouting of the automatic
> transmission cooler lines will probably be necessary.  The Olds 455
is so
> wide that headers pipes will make relatively sharp turns right off
of the
> flanges.  This makes a few of the header bolt tricky to install in the
> heads.  Bring some patience and small fingers along.
>
> One regret - use the new copper exhaust header-to-head gaskets from
Mr.
> Gasket (another $25).  These seal right the first time and are much
less
> likely blow out.  Don't forget to re-torque the gaskets after
heating up
> the motor once.
>
> Good luck!
>
> John Gill
> Cleveland, OH
> jgill@idmi.com
>
> ----------
> > From: Edwin Burger <erb22@yahoo.com>
> > To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> > Subject: putting headers on the '70 442
> > Date: Friday, December 26, 1997 1:28 PM
> >
> > Thanks everyone for you info on the lip for the hood!
> >
> > I'm putting headers on the 442, since it needs a new exhaust
anyway.
> > Does anyone here have any experience with headers for a 455, and
more
> > specifically, how easy it is to fit them into a 442?  I wanted
headers
> > that would make a lot of torque (tri-y headers?).  Does anyone
know of
> > a company that makes headers that wont cost me more than the rest of
> > car?
> >
> > Thanks bunches,
> >
> > Ed
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________
> > DO YOU YAHOO!?
> > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
>

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 ª1032
*********************************
