To:	oldsmobile-digest@chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #1008


oldsmobile-digest      Sunday, December 14 1997      Volume 01 : Number 1008



runaway Diesel
Power Drive
Refurbished brakes?
engine ID's
what is Digest
blue rods
Re: blue rods again
68 442 original motor?
mid engine 78 442
bearing packer
Re: ADMIN: Quad 4 Flames
1 that got away
Re: Funny story
Re: ISP Problems
$85 valve covers?
when you get a paint job
JWO ads
Re: Cheesy paint jobs from hell...
Re: Parts Needed...
Re: Olds List Lansing Video Update (Long)
Re: 68 442 original motor?
Re: Cheesy paint jobs from hell...
Re: Cork Vs. Rubber ?
carpet dye / suspension package
69 H/O christmas ornament
Intake Manifold Question
Intro and Olds 350 questions
Re: Cheesy paint jobs from hell...
Re: Cheesy paint jobs from hell...
Re: Intro and Olds 350 questions
Re: Cheesy paint jobs from hell...
Re: long th400?
Re: Re[5]: carb. fix info
Re: Cheesy paint jobs from hell...
Olds Pic's for computer wallpaper
Re: carpet dye / suspension package
Re: power tour
Re: Quad 4 head gaskets
Re: 6sp\442, dist cap
Re: HEI & recurve question
Re: Intro and Olds 350 questions
Re: Quad 4 head gaskets
Re: Interior stuff
Re: Intro and Olds 350 questions
Re: '67 Cutlass frame/transmission mount problem
Re: Cork Vs. Rubber ?
Re: Are these SSIIIs something special?
Re:valve train

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 14:14:10 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: runaway Diesel

>     Some food for thought involving the runaway engine syndrome.....suppose
> you're driving a diesel...what then,hmm?

The only way to stop a runaway diesel is to stop the air or fuel. If
it's a detroit diesel get as for away as possible before it explodes.
I'm not sure what the Olds diesel has in the way of emergency shut down
procedures.
=======================
Same way. Just like you shut it off normally. While tractors generally have a
knob to pull to kill fuel delivery, most Diesel autos have an electrically
controlled fuel cutoff, so simply turning the key to OFF should do it. "Should"
being the key word.
  There was a story a while back in the VW parts place newsletter about Diesel
runaway, and later a story in Reader's Digest about a girl whose Rabbit Diesel
had gone nuts on the freeway. She toasted the brakes trying to stop the motor,
driving on mountain roads. [What, no runaway truck turnoffs?]. That same story
appeared in another place, I forget where, an email list maybe? Yet, funny
thing, only the VW experts' version mentioned that it was a DIESEL that did
this. They can get too much oil from the crank past the vavle seals and runaway
even if you shut off the fuel flow.
  Driving on hilly roads, then, apparently lacking runaway turnoffs, seems to
me you'd have ONE chance to stop- slam on the brakes HARD so that they absorb
all of your kinetic energy and kill the motor before they heat up and fade. If
after a few seconds it looks like that's not enough, THEN go for Neutral and
kiss the motor goodbye.
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
         >>> Please snip the excess lines from posts <<<

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 14:15:09 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: Power Drive

There were a few families last year.  I think that's a great family
vacation.  A good reason for the kids to miss school, too.  uh?
================
Like I always say, "Ya can't let your classes interfere with your *education*."
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
         >>> Please snip the excess lines from posts <<<

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 14:16:20 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: Refurbished brakes?

I suspect this is intended primarily for
     trailer queen show cars which _must_ have the correctly date-coded
     rotors to go with the original air in the tires, etc....
===============
I presume, then, that they spray the original metal back onto the rotors. ;-)
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 14:22:04 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: engine ID's

From: Scott.Wheeler@pinnacle-brands.com
Does anyone know how to ID an Olds motor??? I've done the basics...block
number is 396021F...generic 68/72 455 block number and has J heads, 73-76
455 4-barrel heads, but of course the code on the oil fill tube is gone.
The motor is in my 68 442 conv bolted up to the original OG 400
transmission.
- -----------------
I know on my Cutli that the 8th character in the VIN id's the original
engine.  Is this true for all GM's, all American cars, all Oldses or what?
If so, what would the character be for a 403 in say an Olds Custom
Cruiser?  Will this code be the same on any 403 vehicle?
Thankyou
==============
Before you get all happy scraping the gunk off that J-head "1968" motor or
something... try looking for the ª on the oil fill tube. 1st digit is the final
digit of the year of issue. I.e., 8001001 would be a '68 engine, 3321456 would
be a '73 engine. Much easier to find usually.

The 403's engine code was "K". So, if you see K... ;-)
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
         >>> Please snip the excess lines from posts <<<

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 14:29:04 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: what is Digest

What is digest delivery?
It's a collection of messages from the mail list. Each digest is 60 KB
or so. You get one or two a day. I have about four waiting on Monday.

What are the pros and cons?
Pros: You remain on the list, the best source for Olds info on the
Internet&153;. Traffic to your mailbox is reduced. This can help with
flakey mail systems. You can read (or delete) through the messages
faster.

Cons: It's harder to read a complete thread of messages at once (or
delete at once :}). Now you have to read through one long message at a
time. I've actually found these not to be a problem after trying digest
delivery for a week.
===============
Yeah, one or two a day, 1500 lines long. Most emails are 30-40 lines.

Big Con: reading the same stuff 8x that folks refuse to snip when replying.
Pretty soon they are quoting themselves from 4 post back on the thread.
Seriously, there was a post recently with *5* lines of fresh wisdom, and *100*
lines of quotes support material. SHeesh. In digest, you MUST wade thru all
that in hopes that a few screens down there is another more enlightening post.
  This is especially fun when some joker posts 1800 lines of graphics to the
list, and you get to spend about 10 minutes space-barring thru the gibberish
only to find that it was the final post of the digest.
  Oh, and your replies tend to be delayed. Not a bad thing, keeps traffic down
as the real-time gurus have generally answered the burning questions well by
then...
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
         >>> Please snip the excess lines from posts <<<

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 14:32:31 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: blue rods

Goerge had my pistons cleaned up today. I looked them over and one of
the rods was...Blue! What does this mean when a piston rod is painted
blue? I don't think the engine has ever been apart or has had the bottom
end tampered with. Uh?
.
The whole rod is made of the same stuff, just it looks like it was
painted blue with engine paint before it was put in? Any help?
- - --==============
I had the very sad experience of blowing an oil line off a brand new engine
once. Lost all the oil. Pressure switch failed to kill the motor in time. Not
only were the front 4 rods bright blue, so was the crank. And, the new cam was
wasted. Nice little $300 mistake. The heat just toasted everything.

Perhaps your motor spun a bearing? Machinist should be able to tell.
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
         >>> Please snip the excess lines from posts <<<

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 15:04:39 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: Re: blue rods again

> > Perhaps your motor spun a bearing? Machinist should be able to tell.
>
> No, it wasn't HEATED blue, it was PAINTED blue. Like somebody took a
> spray can to it. uhhhh????
> Matt Cremean

Oh, *painted* blue! Yeah, you've heard of Chevy's "pink" rods, right, well what
you have there is the Olds version, only in a more, er, Manly Color! [Pink,
indeed! Heh. Girly rods for Girly Motors.] The paint helps the rod shed oil
faster for better reciprocating action. Or something like that.

- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
         >>> Please snip the excess lines from posts <<<

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 15:06:01 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: 68 442 original motor?

The engine is the original.  That still makes me happy.

>About 1981 I was offered a 1968 Olds 442 convertible
> This time I checked the engine out to see if it
>were really a 400 rather than a 425.  The engine being red caused me some
>worry & I didn't have any way of identifying it then.  The owner couldn't
>either.
>Bill Culp    bculp@HiWAAY.net
==================

OK, so, how come this original 68 442 motor was not Bronze?
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
         >>> Please snip the excess lines from posts <<<

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 15:11:18 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: mid engine 78 442

an outrageous 78 442 witha blown 403 on a Toronado
trasaxle where the back seat used to be!
=================
Sounds like Bill Porterfield's Yellow car. I saw that hereabouts recently- last
summer? for sale for about 10,000. Lots of wear & tear on it, still has a 403.
No blower now. He had lots of magazines on hand that the car had been featured
in.
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
         >>> Please snip the excess lines from posts <<<

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 15:14:40 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: bearing packer

>Buy yourself a bearing packer>

AGREED!  I have and use one for my wheel bearings.  It does work great
Doc.  FYI Darren, year one sells them for about $10.00.  Nifty gadget.
================
Seems to me you are still doing the same thing that started this discussion
unless you load your grease gun with a tube of wheel bearing grease- is there
such a thing? At Chuck's garage, they had a nifty device- a jar of wheel
bearing lube in which sat the cone which holds the bearing. You put the bearing
in, put the inner cone over it, and press down real hard. Packs 'em real quick
& easy. Probably a bit more that $10, I am guessing maybe $40 for the thing.
Oh, it has a lid, too, keep dust & grunge out betwixt uses.
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
         >>> Please snip the excess lines from posts <<<

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 15:27:57 -0500
From: Jerry Christopher <IThEFunKI@ViperLink.Net>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Quad 4 Flames

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
>
> For the info of all... the address rcktpwr@aol.com has been removed from
> the list due to ignoring the warning posted here about continuing this
> argument. Anyone following up in a similar vein will also be tossed.

<looking around> <golf clap>
- --
                 Jerry Christopher
     ___        HTTP://WWW2.Viperlink.Net/Members/IThEFunKI
 ___/.o \__,      1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
_=O------O=__________It ain't my father's Oldsmobile_______

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 15:31:56 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: 1 that got away

>Does anyone else have a story about an Olds that they
>coulda/shoulda/woulda bought, but for some reason didn't, and has
>regretted that decision ever since?
==================
Many... a few years ago, I was living inDavis, CA, attending the university
there. About the only car nut in town. A '70 SX was in town all the time,
probably some rich student's transpo. I was just learning about Olds options &
such, did not really know what it was. There was no such thing as email lists
at the time. No one to turn to for advice. I was not an OCA member, had not
even heard od Hemming's. Clueless youngster. Still, I admired the car.
Meanwhile, bought another [see later]. Never even left a note on it. Later saw
it at the local boneyard. Wonder what they got for it, $50? Just before I found
out that the cutout bumper was a good thing to have, it disappeared. I think it
was that car that they sold me the dual-gate & console out of... for $12. Great
boneyard back then.

  Went to see a 68 442 convertible in Sacramento. Had looked for a Chevelle SS,
sorta, but with under $5K to spend, none were available but scrappers and
wildly high-school-hot-rodded ridicurods. Went to see a "71 442" in S.F., bad
rust, no 442 emblems, flapping chrome, and a 455 with water in the oil- passed.
Off to Sacto. At least this one SAYS 442 on it. Repainted. Engine says 442 on
it. Chrome RACovers, good. Rust along the dash metal at the bottom of the
windshield- walked away. Thought about it. Rust is repairable. It's priced
right. Called him up the next week, went & got it. Still have it. The one shown
on www.442.com, lost the Poncho wheels since then, have correct SSI's for it.
Gradually come to find out she's a W30, though many parts were lost along the
way, and the engine that was in it when I got it was a '66 or '67 400 motor.

  Now, this week, my brother says his friend spotted a pair of Olds that the
guy is considering selling, $1000 the pair. One's a '67 Delta or Delmont, the
other's "a '70, an SS"... Chevelle? No, he insists it's an Olds, like a Cutlass
body style. Hmm..... SS.... SX.... Yeah, could be, just might be. Need to check
on this one for sure.

  Then there's the '71 442 with gages, W-hood, 2 W-air cleaners, 455 with C
heads, and that Experimental lo-rise intake... he wants $3000 for the rusty
p.o.s. Still can't justify that price even w/ the Exp. Int.

  In the outer reaches of MI sits a '68 442 up to the floor in the mud when
last seen. AM/FM, G motor w/ no heads, xst man [one] is still there, 2-3 SSI's,
Pretty rusty body, who knows WHAT in the trunk, the lady can't or won't sell
because her husband got it in the divorce and won't come get it but she can't
sell it. I tried to tell her I can work around title problems, but she will not
cooperate.

Then there's the '87 442 f/s a couple weeks ago for $500. Too late. Crunched
front end. And, gee, Ashley Jones now suddenly has the wheels off just such a
car for sale. Hmmmm.... wonder if he swooped it from me?
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
         >>> Please snip the excess lines from posts <<<

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 15:35:12 -0500
From: Jerry Christopher <IThEFunKI@ViperLink.Net>
Subject: Re: Funny story

mrada wrote:
>
> Jerry Christopher wrote:
> >
> > Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada) wrote:
> >
> > > I guess I am having 442 withdrawls.  Can't wait to get my 442 fixed.
> > > The DRB is not too bad as long as I don't drive it in "D".
> >
> > As opposed to P, or R, or even N, I'll take D anyday!  hahaha
>
> I guess you haven't read previous messages of mine.  The does run
> in "D" but very annoyingly.  Shifts from 1 to OD too soon.  I drive
> the car like a stick (1 - 2 - 3 - forget D) and that seems much better.

No, I've followed earlier posts...  I was just given ya a hard time....
And I don't think any Olds, no matter what motor, or tranny will do
highway speeds very easily in R...  <G>
- --
                 Jerry Christopher
     ___        HTTP://WWW2.Viperlink.Net/Members/IThEFunKI
 ___/.o \__,      1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
_=O------O=__________It ain't my father's Oldsmobile_______

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 13:09:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Malcolm Gillespie <droptop_69@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: ISP Problems

- ---RC Hellebuyck <mrhell@sprynet.com> wrote:

> I use sprynet and was just curious why you want to use yahoo for your
> e-mail?  Have you tried Netscape or Microsoft explorer?  The latest
> version of MS explorer is really cool, there are alot of new e-mail
> features added.  BTW, you can download it free from MS' web page, (in
> case you didn't know).
>
> Just food for thought  :)

Hi RC,
I do use IE 4.0 & Outlook Express. The problem is the M2 server at
sprynet isn't receiving my e-mail any more. The mail server was down
for 5 hours on wed. and when they got it up, my e-mail account didn't
work. Their tech support acknowledges that the problem is on their end
and "they're working on it". In the meantime, my only choice is to use
one of the free e-mail accounts I.E. Yahoo. The problem is that they
are Web based, so I have to read and send my mail using the Browser.
It's clumsy and slow.
Olds Related; I Tracked down my electrical problems and also found the
right fuses at auto Zone. I now have a perfectly functioning Edelbrock
Performer 750 cfm carb with electric choke, nicely mounted on my new
Performer RPM intake.
Now, if I could only stop the small coolant leak at the gooseneck.......

==
Mick Gillespie
69 Cutlass convertible
DropTop_69@yahoo.com (temporary e-mail)
http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/mgillespie/oldspage.htm

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 16:09:42 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: $85 valve covers?

Once I complete this job, I'd like to sell the chrome valve covers that
are currently on my car.  Both are in EC without rubber grommets.  $85.
for the pair. Shipping included.
RC Hellebuyck
===============
Is that a typo?
Seems a bit steep to me.
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
         >>> Please snip the excess lines from posts <<<

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 16:12:46 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: when you get a paint job

By the way, the tires and wheels wouldn't get painted either!  Do yourself
a favor and take your car to the body shop with old, spare wheels on it to
save the over-spray mess though.
===============
No doubt. There was a '72 Cutlass convertible at the body shop across from
Chuck's.... they never got around to working on it. Too much $ to be made in
just bolting on new fenders & grilles & painting I guess. Anyhow, it was
outdoors, unprotected... I left a flier with it.. and one day the SSII's were
just plain GONE. The owner had to round up some more. I presume he was not
foolish enough to put them on and leave it outdoors again. I moved on to a
better job shortly after that.
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
         >>> Please snip the excess lines from posts <<<

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 16:16:55 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: JWO ads

 I do not believe that my grandfather would be interested in joing
your club for $30-$40 just to sell his car, but the clubs I belong to
will only list ads for club members. Do you have a similar policy?
ehernan3@ae0032.pd8.ford.com
==================
No problem, OCA posts anybody's ad in JWO for a mere $0.25 per word, CHEAP
compared to say Hemming's. I told him this, but could not find email version of
the OCA address. Someone please send it to him.
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
         >>> Please snip the excess lines from posts <<<

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 16:43:30 -0500
From: "DREW RACING" <drewracn@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Cheesy paint jobs from hell...

LOL!  That is hilarious!  Project Power Wagon needs a paint job and new
wood grain slapped on.  I have been thinking about a cheap way to get it
painted too.  I think it will get done (if I do it) by a group of us guys
and a couple cases of beer and some pizza this coming summer.  Hey, I have
great friends!

God, I hope they paint while sober...

Drew Walz
DREW RACING

- ----------
> From: RC Hellebuyck <mrhell@sprynet.com>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Cheesy paint jobs from hell...
> Date: Saturday, December 13, 1997 12:50 PM
>
> DREW RACING wrote:
> >you would be better off going to Wal-Mart and buying the cheapest spray
bomb enamel and doing the whole car
> in your driveway than having one of those places do it.>
>
>
> Reminds me when a friend in high school wanted to paint his impala for
> the upcoming prom but didn't have the cash.  He bought 2 qts. of
> rustoleum "regal red" and a foam roller!!  :-0 LOL  It looked like sh*t
> close-up, but from about 100 yards away, it did look better.  When I
> think about it now, he should have used a 3/8" nap roller.  This would
> have covered all the dings and left a nice texture as well!  :)
>
> --
> RC Hellebuyck
> 1971 4-4-2 covt.
>
> http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/mrhell/driving.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 17:07:36 EST
From: James244 <James244@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Parts Needed...

I have a Part ª 22514815 Hood Orn thats NOS that I'll take $30.00 plus
shipping for it if you are interested.My notes say that it says "Oldsmobile"
and fit's 82-90 B,C body cars.

Thanks,
James

email at- James244@AOL.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 16:09:26 -0600
From: dnewman@wcbi.com (Doug Newman)
Subject: Re: Olds List Lansing Video Update (Long)

Chris Sparks wrote:

>Doug,
>
>Are you the one who contracted with Alpha One to market those Centennial
>tapes?

This is a competely private venture.  (That's why it's taken me so long to
get it produced - working on it in my "off time".  :-)  Disclaimer:  I am in
no way affiliated with Oldsmobile or Alpha One.  Raw video was supplied by
list members who took their cameras to the Centennial.  Thanks for reminding
me to clarify that.

Later,

Doug Newman
Columbus, MS
1987 442

http://www.442.com/newman.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 16:20:21 -0000
From: "Lloyd W. Culp" <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Re: 68 442 original motor?

Chris,

Someone had painted it the convenient red.  It was bronze beneath that.

Bill Culp    bculp@HiWAAY.net
Decatur, Alabama
'62 Jetfire - '67 Toronado - '68 442 convertible
>==================
>
>OK, so, how come this original 68 442 motor was not Bronze?
>--
>Chris  B. Witt

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 22:26:24 +0000
From: clarence wirtz <cw63nova@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Cheesy paint jobs from hell...

At 09:43 PM 12/13/97 +0000, you wrote:
>LOL!  That is hilarious!  Project Power Wagon needs a paint job and new
>wood grain slapped on.  I have been thinking about a cheap way to get it
>painted too.  I think it will get done (if I do it) by a group of us guys
>and a couple cases of beer and some pizza this coming summer.  Hey, I have
>great friends!
>
>God, I hope they paint while sober...
>

I had the say idea about 3 years ago.  My Cutlass was faded so bad it looked
like some weird primer.  After trying to decide who to let paint it.  They
wife and I came to the decission that we could paint it our selves for about
half what macco wanted.  So we sat off in to the realm of body work and
paint. BTW a first for both of us.  Bought a spray gun at a flea market for
35 dollars (binks suction style). I already had a compressor and a D/A
sander which I used on wood working when I made my daughters hope chest.
Then I went to the book store and bought some books on painting about 12
dollars a peice I bought 2.
Then I went to the auto paint supplier and talked to them for a while and
got tips from them.  I picked a low cost paint kit that costed about 50 or
60 dollars.  I picked up a old fender at the flea market for 25 dollars to
practice on and then I went to work and made the hardest step of all, perp
and wet sanding.  That was the most time consuming part.  With that done, we
applyed the paint.  It was one of them things that didnt come out perferct,
but, after 3 years it still looks as good(after wash and wax) as any thing I
have seen that macco has done locally.  And it is not fading or pealing.
Its one of the things that you feel good about after you have completed it
and know you did it youself.  It makes me fell good when people ask were I
got it painted at and I can tell them I did it my self. :)

Good luck on the wagon and enjoy it while you tell people that its was done
at home.
Clarence
86 Cutlass 4DR 307 O/D 2.56's
San Antonio

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 18:20:29 -0500
From: Jim & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Subject: Re: Cork Vs. Rubber ?

At 12:26 PM 12/13/97 -0500, you wrote:
RC

        That was me. The best way to keep valve covers from leaking is to
use some hardening Permatex on the valve cover then set your gasket on about
2-5 min later. Let them set for 10 min then install. DO NOT put any sealer
on the head. When you go to tighten them up use a nut driver with a 3/8
socket on it. DON'T over tighten any of them either. That will cause all
sorts of leaks. Tighten them hand tight. Don't ream on them. You will be
very pleased that they won't leak for many years.

Jim Chermack


>A while back, someone on the list said to use a little "gasket material"
>on the covers only to make the gasket stick.  This was said to make for
>an easier installation.  Sounds good to me, I'll try it.  Since I
>haven't done this type of work for about 12 years I feel I'm a little
>rusty.  ANY help, suggestions, tips or "don't do that's" anyone can give
>is greatly appreciated!  BTW, it's a 455 with a/c.
>
>Once I complete this job, I'd like to sell the chrome valve covers that
>are currently on my car.  Both are in EC without rubber grommets.  $85.
>for the pair. Shipping included.
>
>--
>RC Hellebuyck
>1971 4-4-2 covt.
>
>http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/mrhell/driving.htm
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 12:05:33 -0800 (PST)
From: PSHENG@scuacc.scu.edu
Subject: carpet dye / suspension package

Two questions for y'all:

1. the carpeted portions of my front door panels are pretty faded; does
   somebody make a spray-on dye to restore the color?  I've seen dye for
   vinyl and plastic parts, but not carpet.

2. I have a 72 cutlass supreme, and the guy I bought it from said he
   ordered the handling package (FE2 option?) when he bought it new.
   I don't have the build sheet or invoice, so how can I tell whether
   it has this option?  The car has a rear swaybar; did all 72 supremes
   have a rear swaybar or would this indicate that it has the handling
   package?

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 18:49:57 -0500
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: 69 H/O christmas ornament

For anyone that HASN'T seen the Hallmark ornament of the 69 H/O, you can
see it on my site as well, (link below) as a few other people's sites.
It's just a cool little jewel, don't you think?
- --
Mike Rothe
69 H/O
71 442 HT
85 442 T-top
76 GMC 1/2 ton, 502 c.i.

http://pages.prodigy.net/mrothe/rocket.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 16:45:28 -0800
From: Erik <erikreb@netbridge.net>
Subject: Intake Manifold Question

Hi,

I'm planning on replacing the gaskets and seals on my '72 Cutlass.  I
have the edelbrock Performer manifold on there and I have a couple
questions.

Should I put any sealer on the gaskets?  The instructions say yes, but
two different mechanics tell me no, and they say just to put in at the
end of the seals.

Also, the torque sequence in my manual says to start with the outside
bolts and work in.  But the two mechanics tell me to start with the
inside bolts and then work out.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Erik Badzinski

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 19:04:18 -0600
From: "Craig A. Blome" <cblome@jumpnet.com>
Subject: Intro and Olds 350 questions

I wanted to introduce myself and look for information about the Oldsmobile
350 V8.  I don't currently own any Oldsmobiles, but have driven Cutlasses
and 88's in the past.  Now, I am looking for a car to build to autocross in
the SCCA's C Prepared class, and have thought about the G-body Cutlass.  The
Oldsmobile motor has a lot to recommend it over the SBC, but I'm not sure of
a few details.  Here are my questions:

- --Was the 350 in the '79-80 "442 W-30" Cutlass an Olds motor and not a
Chevy?  The books I've seen are a little unclear here.  (I would probably
start with a '68-70 block, but the rules say the engine had to be installed
in the car from the factory.)

- --I've heard the 330 forged crank and rods are getting close to impossible
to find.  True?

- --Believe it or not, it's apparently legal in this class to convert a diesel
to gasoline power, though it is unheard of to date.  Is the diesel's crank
plain or nodular iron?  What kind of iron alloy is used in the block
casting?  I'm looking for a 500+ HP engine eventually, so I may be a loon to
even consider a cast crank.  (Unfortunately engine stroke cannot be changed,
so turning down a 425 crank to fit is not an option.)

- --Any salvage yards specializing in Oldsmobiles?

Cheers,
Craig Blome
Current:  '96 Miata, '85 X1/9, '72 Capri
Past:  '90 Taurus SHO, '79 Cutlass 305, '80 Cutlass 260 (ugh), '77 Chevy 350
Delta 88

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 18:20:33 -0700
From: Dustin Cross <livnrt@mssl.uswest.net>
Subject: Re: Cheesy paint jobs from hell...

there was an idiot that I went to school with that had an old (real old) T*y*ta
pickup, he got bored and decided to paint it   with a brush!!   the really sad
part about the whole deal was that he used HOUSE paint!!!!   'course he was
surpised when his brush marks started peeling off within a week...

RC Hellebuyck wrote:
>
> DREW RACING wrote:
> >you would be better off going to Wal-Mart and buying the cheapest spray bomb
enamel and doing the whole car > in your driveway than having one of those
places do it.> > > Reminds me when a friend in high school wanted to paint his
impala for > the upcoming prom but didn't have the cash.  He bought 2 qts. of >
rustoleum "regal red" and a foam roller!!  :-0 LOL  It looked like sh*t >
close-up, but from about 100 yards away, it did look better.  When I > think
about it now, he should have used a 3/8" nap roller.  This would > have covered
all the dings and left a nice texture as well!  :)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 18:39:13 -0700
From: Charley Buehner <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Re: Cheesy paint jobs from hell...

Dustin Cross wrote:
>
> there was an idiot that I went to school with

Umm, did he, by chance, finish school?

 that had an old (real old) T*y*ta pickup,
> he got bored and decided to paint it   with a brush!!

Perhaps not the same Toy I remember seeing...  It didn't spend time in a
horse trailer, did it?

> whole deal was that he used HOUSE paint!!!!

Reminds me of the car Odie helped paint (A kid we knew -- who pretended
to work with us occasionally!) They were prepping a hon*a civic for a
stereo competition the next day.  (The kid was in my comp. class, no
less)  They wanted to make a good impression so they painted the car.
- -- The night before!  With black primer only! -- WITH A SPONGE!!!!  (I'm
~NOT~ making this up!!!  I found these details out after I beat him...
barely!  Mine wasn't ready for a competition, but since our store was
~hosting~ the thing, I figured I'd better enter in it!)


               Charley Buehner -- The Oldsmobile Magnet
For Me:  mailto:buehner@lyrea.com       mailto:charley@rocketship.com
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner
    Sidney Radio Shack:     mailto:redline_av@webtv.net
        Sidney Montana

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 20:51:59 -0500
From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Subject: Re: Intro and Olds 350 questions

Craig A. Blome wrote:

> --Was the 350 in the '79-80 "442 W-30" Cutlass an Olds motor and not a
> Chevy?  The books I've seen are a little unclear here.  (I would probably
> start with a '68-70 block, but the rules say the engine had to be installed
> in the car from the factory.)

It is an Oldsmobile motor.
>
> --Any salvage yards specializing in Oldsmobiles?

I got ~many~ parts...what ya need? :-)

Jason Labay (z28cfi@gwis.com) Akron, OH
Quality Engineer - TRW Automotive Group, Inc.
95 Impala SS
80 Olds 442 W-30
75 Hurst/Olds W-25

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 21:31:29 -0500
From: Jerry Christopher <IThEFunKI@ViperLink.Net>
Subject: Re: Cheesy paint jobs from hell...

DREW RACING wrote:

> LOL!  That is hilarious!  Project Power Wagon needs a paint job and new

> God, I hope they paint while sober...

This is true, although it would have a hint of indivuality, you won't
wanna make the "Power Wagon" go from that to the "Loser Cruiser"
- --
                 Jerry Christopher
     ___        HTTP://WWW2.Viperlink.Net/Members/IThEFunKI
 ___/.o \__,      1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
_=O------O=__________It ain't my father's Oldsmobile_______

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 21:33:06 EST
From: COUPE KING <COUPEKING@aol.com>
Subject: Re: long th400?

Chris-
Already thought of that. The trans I have is from a Vista Cruiser, and when I
had it rebuilt I converted the tailshaft to the short variety. Either way, the
trans mount is right distal to the pan, in the same location long neck or
short. The difference is in the driveshaft length.

My frame perches are stock, the motor can only mount to the frame in one way,
and my driveshaft fits. Must be that I've got an incorrect crossmember?

Anyway, have ordered one up from Bill LaPierre ( who BTW is a real pleasure to
do business with) and am hoping that will cure my problem.

Peter
CoupeKing

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 22:17:40 EST
From: Mr ExMt <MrExMt@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Re[5]: carb. fix info

MY QUESTION IS: CAN I PUT A IN LINE FILTER BEFORE THE FUEL PUMP SO I CAN KEEP
THE STOCK APPEARANCE? I'VE HAD THE SAME PROBLEM WITH MY '68'S Q-JET, AND CANT
FIND A OVERSIZES FUEL NUT THAT IS BIG ENOUGH. I HAD TO GO AND BUY A NEW
REBUILT CARB. I FOUND IT VERY TOUGH TO FIND Q-JET ª7028250, ANY HELP WOULD BE
GREAT!

LEIGH TENENHOLTZ
'68 CUTLASS S CONVERT

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 20:36:19 -0800
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Re: Cheesy paint jobs from hell...

My other half did this as a teenager when he & his brother couldn't afford
any better.  He said the brush strokes looked OK when they were
straight.....they drove Fords so it didn't bug me to hear it (grin).


Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, CA

'64 Cutlass, '66 Toronado, '67 Delta 88 Custom, '69 Toronado, '72 Vista
Cruiser (twin hauler)

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

Subscribe To : Lisa's Classic Oldsmobile Bulletin Board Mailing List:
Glass Line's Bulletin Board: http://exo.com/~jht/wwwboard/olds/

*** NEW ***
Lisa's Oldsmobile FREE Banner Exchange
http://exo.com/~jht/olds/banners/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 22:42:15 -0600
From: Tom Williams <tjwilli@Megavision.com>
Subject: Olds Pic's for computer wallpaper

Hi All,
   I was changing my background on my computer tonight for the heck of
it and decided to use Brycemans Oldsmobile page to put a nice picture of
and Oldsmobile as my wallpaper. If you do not know how to do this and
are interested, you just need to go to Brycemans page (if you so choose
any of the Oldsmobiles in the registry) pull up a picture of your
favorite Oldsmobile if yours is not there or if you do not have a
scanner to scan your own picture in. After you have pulled up your
favorite picture right click your mouse one time (not twice) and
highlight Wallpaper and wha-la you now have a nice background on your
Win 95 Computer.
P.S. You will not notice the picture on your computer until you back out
of or get out of your internet connection.

Tom

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 00:45:33 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: carpet dye / suspension package

I haven't tried it yet but Plasti-Kote makes an aerosol fabric dye they
say will work on fabric and presumably carpet. I got mine at a NAPA store.

The presence of a rear sway bar means either it came with the optional
FE2 suspension or that it was added later on. They weren't standard on
Supremes. I think a front sway bar bigger than about 7/8" in diameter
means it came with FE2 from the factory.

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 00:20:45 -0500
From: AEROTECH <jev114@email.psu.edu>
Subject: Re: power tour

At 11:22 AM 12/12/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Shaun Miller wrote:
>>
>> Yea i was also thinking about doing this power tour thing.  God knows
>> this quad can cruise at 100 for sustained periods.  I wouldnt doubt
>> anything with a four banger doing 135 top end.  Maybe if some of the
>> other q4 guys would be there we could sneak up and win it all.
>
>Wouldn't this turn an outrageously high RPM?
>
>On a funny note...  The RWD guys talk about swapping their rear ends for
>the run, would FWD guys swap front ends?!?!?  hahahaha

Jerry

No need for the pocket Rockets to swap anything, they come eqipped, and are
versatile. they can adapt to just about any situation, that's what make s
them the all around winner in my book. they are great/superior in all
aspects, power, economy, handling, size, and looks in my opinion. you get
the best of all worlds when you own/drive one of these, check around you
may be able to find a nice one for sale in your area. some people don't
know what they have and seel them cheap.

Have a good one
AEROTECH

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 00:30:58 -0500
From: AEROTECH <jev114@email.psu.edu>
Subject: Re: Quad 4 head gaskets

 What are some symptoms of a head gasket
>needing replacement ?

The most obvious sign of a bad head gasket is white or discolored smoke
pouring from the exhaust, but i don't think you have that -- believe me you
would notice. another way to determine possible head gasket leaks is to
keep a careful eye on the coolant, check the coolant often to see if you
are losing any! if the coolant level seems to be going down slowly you may
have a little leak.

Misconceptions about quad 4's and head gaskets...

the foamy stuff in the oil does not mean your head gasket is leaking.

Ways to prevent head gadskets from blowing.

channge coolant every year and add corrosion inhibitor to the antifreeze.

never run your car hard until it fully warms up.

never run if your temperature gage is veering toward 260 degrees.

AEROTECH

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 00:51:27 EST
From: BIG JERMES <BIGJERMES@aol.com>
Subject: Re: 6sp\442, dist cap

sorry, man, but i just ran the car in a computer program.  that was "if" it
had a six speed.  so i have no idea how to put one in a g-body.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 00:54:18 EST
From: BIG JERMES <BIGJERMES@aol.com>
Subject: Re: HEI & recurve question

In a message dated 97-12-13 11:26:15 EST, you write:

<< I experienced this EXACT same condition
 in my car and came to find out that the brake booster was leaking
 causing and extreme lean condition. As soon as I replaced this booster
 (fixed the vacuum leak) I had no more problems with the pinging. I even
 got to run a little more timing than previously. >>

i wonder if this is my problem?  could you hear or see the leak?  do tell!

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 00:54:36 -0500
From: "Jason K. Adcock" <jadcock@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Intro and Olds 350 questions

Craig A. Blome wrote:
>
> and 88's in the past.  Now, I am looking for a car to build to autocross in
> the SCCA's C Prepared class, and have thought about the G-body Cutlass.

Sorry I don't have many answers to your questions (the W-30 WAS an Olds
motor), but I have another question (as usual...).  What has to be done to
the G-Body to prepare it for autocross.  I'm not interested in doing this
to mine, just wondering what suspension pieces are strong enough for auto-x
and what's not.  I'm hesitant to drive it hard (around corners and stuff)
because I'm afraid of something breaking.  Am I just paranoid?  Will the
thing drive strong for years to come?  I've got an 84 Cutlass Supreme
Calais with a little under 85k miles on it.  Thanks for any responses.
_____________________________

Jason K. Adcock
mailto:jadcock@vt.edu
http://www.erols.com/adcockjk

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 01:01:56 -0500
From: Dave Ward <ward@ptbo.igs.net>
Subject: Re: Quad 4 head gaskets

AEROTECH wrote:
>
>  What are some symptoms of a head gasket
> >needing replacement ?
>
> The most obvious sign of a bad head gasket is white or discolored smoke
> pouring from the exhaust, but i don't think you have that -- believe me you
> would notice. another way to determine possible head gasket leaks is to
> keep a careful eye on the coolant, check the coolant often to see if you
> are losing any! if the coolant level seems to be going down slowly you may
> have a little leak.

If you notice a sudden drop in coolant level, check your oil;  if the
level is way above where it usually is, this means that coolant has
leaked into the crankcase.  If you run the engine at all like this, the
antifreeze will be destroy the bearings instantly.

Check the compression, too;  if two side-by-side cylinders have low(er)
compression (compared to the other two), this means that you've either
cracked a head, or blown a gasket.

If your coolant is foaming nicely, this is caused by a leaking head
and/or gasket as well.  The combustible forces from inside the cylinder
are leaking into the water jacket, which will eventually over-pressurize
the system, and bubble out the rad cap.  OTOH, if you're rad cap is
faulty, and won't release, your radiator will go VVK in no time.

The fresh coolant in the '78 became very acidic because of a leaky head
gasket.  It's basically the same as the acid rain syndrome;  when
exhaust gases go out of the tail pipe, and into a nice moist atmosphere,
the NOx and CO2 from the exhaust mix with the moisture, and presto--acid
rain. When the gasket leaks in an engin, the exhaust gases leak into the
cooling system, and the pollutants from the burned gases condense in the
coolant, giving you the same effect as acid rain.  The coolant in the
'78 was acidic enough to eat the paint off the spring of a new rad cap
within a matter of weeks.


>>Misconceptions about quad 4's and head gaskets...

>>the foamy stuff in the oil does not mean your head gasket is leaking.

WHAT?  If you get *ANY* foamy stuff in your oil, nine times from ten
it's something to do with the head, and/or head gasket.  The only other
thing causing this would be extreme blow-by, which means your rings are
FUBAR, and you'll have to take the motor apart anyway.  OTOH, if you're
stupid enough to overfill the crankcase with oil, the crank will be
immersed, and will cause foaming.  But, we'd all like to think that all
Olds owners have more brains than that...

>>Ways to prevent head gadskets from blowing.

>>channge coolant every year and add corrosion inhibitor to the antifreeze.

Great idea...instead of changing head gaskets, you'll be replacing
heater cores annually...corrosion inhibitors, Stop Leak, and extra water
pump lubricants will plug up a heater core in nothing flat.

>>never run your car hard until it fully warms up.

If you want the gasket to last forever, never run the car hard period.
But, since it can be considered a performance machine, it's right at
home being driven hard(er).  Replacing a head gasket is just part of
routine maintenance with a high compression engine.

>>never run if your temperature gage is veering toward 260 degrees.

No doubt...aluminum alloy engines just *love* heat! (sarcasm)

- ------------------------------------------
S. Dave Ward  (mailto:ward@ptbo.igs.net)

'78 Delta 88 Royale (350 4bbl.)
'85 Delta 88 R.B.   (307 4bbl.)
'91 GMC Sierra 4x4  (305 TBI)

(Ennismore, Ontario, CANADA)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 01:05:24 EST
From: BIG JERMES <BIGJERMES@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Interior stuff

In a message dated 97-12-13 09:13:25 EST, you write:

<< Or, if I'm ever fortunate enough to get
 some buckets for my car, I'll let you have my bench seat. >>

sorry, bro, im doing the same thing you are!!  no bench for me!!  i have 2
buckets and console and all that, but my dash has had it.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 23:09:00 -0700
From: Charley Buehner <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Re: Intro and Olds 350 questions

> to mine, just wondering what suspension pieces are strong enough for auto-x
> and what's not.  I'm hesitant to drive it hard (around corners and stuff)
> because I'm afraid of something breaking.  Am I just paranoid?

I think this is called "babying" it, also known as non-abuse.  We all
have this tendancy to do that, however some of us seem to be convinced
that foreward stress is much better than lateral stress.  (Myself
included--very much so!)  Perhaps it helps knowing it's much easier to
lose control on sharp corners than dragstrips...  As for off road
stuff?  Sure I've done it...  slowly!  I've gone through places that
bigger pickups couldn't make, and gone through stuff 4X4's wouldn't
try.  Once again, slowly and carefully.  I personally can't see running
those courses at speed, much less as a race, unless I was abusing a
chevy!  HEY!!!  I think I found another use for those things
finally!!!!!  :)

I'm sure the Olds will take the abuse quite well, just look at ~any~ of
them around Havre!  Living proof!  They survive.  They just aren't happy
about it.  Once they're placed in that situation, the limo-quality is
sacrificed, and they start riding like an old dodge truck, rattling,
etc.  Other generic signs of abuse will likely show up as well.  Hmm.  I
wonder what would happen to a T-top car!!!  Make sure it's a monte carlo
for ~that~ test!  :)


- --
               Charley Buehner -- The Oldsmobile Magnet
For Me:  mailto:buehner@lyrea.com       mailto:charley@rocketship.com
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner
    Sidney Radio Shack:     mailto:redline_av@webtv.net
        Sidney Montana

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 01:34:21 EST
From: BIG JERMES <BIGJERMES@aol.com>
Subject: Re: '67 Cutlass frame/transmission mount problem

when we put in the 2004r tranny in our '67 442, we had to make some extentions
for the crossmember to sit on.  the car is a convertible, and there is
brackets welded on the boxed frame from the factory for the crossmember.  we
made brackets out of 1/4" steel or something like that.  moved the crossmember
back 3" or so.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 01:55:48 EST
From: BIG JERMES <BIGJERMES@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Cork Vs. Rubber ?

dang, i have edelbrock aluminum valve covers on my 350, and i used "the right
stuff" gasket maker on them.  one is leaking a little at 5000 miles.  and dont
ask where i got the covers at, they are about 20 years old.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 02:07:54 EST
From: BIG JERMES <BIGJERMES@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Are these SSIIIs something special?

In a message dated 97-12-14 01:20:44 EST, you write:

<< What year 442?  This is interesting.  I've NEVER seen a stock 85-87 442
 without the full chrome rim.  There is a gold pinstripe around the outer
 edge with gold paint inlay on all of them.  It was already included in
 the 442 package, so if you ordered the W42 442 package, you got the full
 chrome rim.  I didn't have any say in the wheels when I ordered mine,
 since there were no provisions on the order sheet for it.  N67 is the
 code if I'm not mistaken.  If they were already chrome, why wouldn't you
 opt NOT to use the trim ring?  And specifically, how much was saved over
 the price of not getting full chrome?  The Cutlass Salon was available
 only with the 14 X 6, unless you ordered the W42.  Of course, a dealer
 could have done anything the customer wished, I guess.  However the
 Delta's had 15 X 7's.  If you went to the dealerships today to order 442
 wheels, you get the full chrome rim with the gold pinstripe. No other
 option available.  I suppose ANYTHING is possible, but unless someone
 proves it otherwise, I can't believe the mid 80's 442s rolled off the
 assembly line with anything other than 15 X 7 full chrome SSIII's with
 NO trim rings. >>

well, i cant be very certain on this issue, but ive seen several cars with the
trim rings.  the wheels are exactly like the ones that are fully chromed, but
are painted under the trim rings.  instead of being gold or silver, they are
now black.  the guy who i bought them from painted them this color most likely
to appeal to a wider variety of buyers.  there is also a number stamped into
the wheel under the trim ring.  im sure if they were chrome once in thier
lives, they would not have numbers stamped into them.  when i bought them,
this is what the guy told me.  and i believe him, too.i saw another set of
nubers on the inside of the rims where the tires go, and one of the numbers
was "81".  so maybe that was when they were made?  i really am unsure about
what year and model car it came on. the trim rings look great, too, by the
way.  i like that look.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 23:39:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Jack Karamanos <jalkara@whidbey.net>
Subject: Re:valve train

if the locks you have are the kind with the set screw in the center you
may have to flatten the top of the studs with some kind of abrasive tool
so that the set screws have a large enough flat area to be able to set.

On Sat, 13 Dec 1997, oldsmobile-digest wrote:


------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 ª1008
*********************************
