To:	oldsmobile-digest@chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #1003


oldsmobile-digest     Thursday, December 11 1997     Volume 01 : Number 1003



The one that got away
Re: Car Craft's Real Street Eliminator
Test, trash this.
Clarification: A-body rear brake swap
Are these SSIIIs something special?
Re: The one that got away
93 Achieva rear window defrost
CORRECTION!!!!!    (Re: valve addition)
Re: Trunk sticker (Was F41 suspension)
Re: TEMPORARY rem*val from the list
Re: Engine ID
Re: G-body model
Re: The one that got away
Re: Are these SSIIIs something special?
Re: Centennial celebration plaque
Re: G-body model
Re: TEMPORARY rem*val from the list
Re: Engine ID
Re: The one that got away
Re:  Engine ID
Re: NO MORE AIR
Re: 455 build up on budget
Re: wheel grease part 2
Re: Are these SSIIIs something special?
Re: The one that got away
Re: Are these SSIIIs something special?
Re: The one that got away
Re[2]: Are these SSIIIs something special?
Re: The one that got away
Re: The one that got away
Re: Olds & Youth
Re: W-31 Rallye 350's
RE:  Re: Olds & Youth
Re: G-body model
I almost had a 71
Re: NO MORE AIR
Re: The one that got away
engine ID by VIN
Re: Are these SSIIIs something special?
Re: Are these SSIIIs something special?
Re: The one that got away
Re: engine ID by VIN
Re: The one that got away
Re: G-body model
Re: G-body model
Re: I almost had a 71
Re: The one that got away
Re: runaway engine
Re: The one that got away

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 11:15:21 -0600 (CST)
From: Thomas G Allen <mutga1@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu>
Subject: The one that got away

Does anyone else have a story about an Olds that they
coulda/shoulda/woulda bought, but for some reason didn't, and has
regretted that decision ever since?

Here's mine:

In 1993, I worked at an auto parts store in Ft. Madison, Iowa.  In late
June or early July, a repair shop across the river in Niota, Illinois had
for sale a late-60's, early-70's Cutlass S with a straight, rust-free
body, nice interior with buckets and console, and a 455.  The guy was
asking $400, and probably would have taken less because the Mississippi
was rising and he was about to be evacuated from his shop.  At the time, I
didn't need another project, so I passed.  I don't know what happened to
the car, but I still kick myself every time I think about it.

Honorable mention:

68-72 442
mid-70's H/O   Both sitting behind the lot of the local olds dealer when I
was in high school (mid-80's) in neglected but definitely restorable
condition. I don't know if they could have been purchased or not, but I
wish I would have asked.

Early 442      Right after high school, a friend's girlfriend said her dad
had a car with "a huge engine.  It says on the fender that it's a
400-something."  I went to her house, and it was an early 442.  I can't
remember the exact condition, but I think it was complete, straight, and
mostly rust-free.  I never asked about this car either.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:46:12 -0500
From: m-hanneman@onu.edu
Subject: Re: Car Craft's Real Street Eliminator

Just think, if that Bravada had an OLDS engine, it could have placed
first!!!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 14:09:50 +0500
From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett )
Subject: Test, trash this.



------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 14:18:57 +0500
From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett )
Subject: Clarification: A-body rear brake swap

I posted to the list a month or so back about what it took to install larger
drum brakes onto the rear axle of my Vista Cruiser.  At the time I couldn't
remember exaclty how big they were.  I had the rear wheels off today
(checking for shoe wear as part of some routine maintenance) and found out
for sure that they are 11" drums, and 2" wide pads.  They're from a `77
chevy malibu, nothing special about the car; 4-door, 350, TH350 and no heavy
duty suspension or anything.  I'm very happy with the swap, better stopping
power and less fade.

Greg Pruett
72 Vista Cruiser
67 Cutlass Supreme
80 Cutlass Calais

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 14:19:04 +0500
From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett )
Subject: Are these SSIIIs something special?

I picked up some super stock wheels today.  They look like SSIII rims but
they don't have the chrome bezels around the triangular holes and don't look
like they ever did.  They're black on grey, the black is painted where the
trim would normally go.  They had chrome trim rings at one time but they're
gone now.  Center caps are long gone too.  They're 15x7 with roughly 3 3/8
inch backspacing.

Here's what's stamped on the inner side of the rim:

4D 06 08 85 975 15x7 JJ MW5 T MADE IN CANADA

The 3.0 version of the FAQ says that the JJ stamping may indicate Hurst Olds
rims.  That 06 08 85 looks like a date so I guess they can't be H/O rims
since 84 was the last year for the H/O.  Anyon know by any chance what
they're from?  Run of the mill cutlass? 442?  Monte SS?

I was just wondering because they look a little unusual.  I really only
bought them because I wanted some 15x7 rims.  It was just a happy
coincidence that I found these SSIIIs cheap.

Thanks

Greg Pruett
72 Vista Cruiser
67 Cutlass Surpeme
80 Cutlass Calais

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 97 13:18:52 -0500
From: "Padavano.Joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Re: The one that got away

     Well, as evidenced by the list below, I usually end up _buying_ the
     car in the end.  Two that got away, though, one Olds, one non:

     1935 Olds 2dr sedan.  I was looking for a street rod project and came
     across this 35 for something like $800.  This was about 10 years ago
     someplace out by Ontario, CA.  The car had no engine or trans (thus
     making it easier to drop in the 455/TH400 combo).  Unfortunately, I
     was convinced I wanted a 36-36 _coupe_ (this was pre-family) and
     passed on the car.  About the same time there _was_ a 36 coupe offered
     for sale in SoCal, but it had the slight problem that the rear clip
     had been torched off and a pickup bed welded on instead :-( .  I
     called on that one, but ultimately let it go when faced with the
     prospect of locating a rear clip.  I often wondered if a
     similar-vintage Chevy rear was the same, as I _did_ find one of those
     for sale.

     The non-Olds was a 1969 Boss 429 Mustang for $1500.  The car was
     complete, but had spun a rod bearing.  Unfortunately, this was senior
     year in high school (1976), and $1500 then would be like $150,000 now.
     This is the one I'm _really_ kicking myself over!

     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 10:19:41 -0800
From: Jon Graham <jgraham@govsales.com>
Subject: 93 Achieva rear window defrost

My rear window defroster (which includes the antenna) will only stay on for a
couple of minutes, & then won't turn back on again for 10 or 15 minutes.  It's
supposed to turn off automatically after about 10 minutes if you're going less
than 50mph, but I could always turn it back on right away.  Any ideas?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 13:23:36 EST
From: CRuper1 <CRuper1@aol.com>
Subject: CORRECTION!!!!!    (Re: valve addition)

In a message dated 97-12-11 07:24:58 EST, you write:

<< >
 >So, two 1.4 in. valves would flow 3.078, or just slightly (.001) under
 >the
 >area of the 2.8 inch size.




           Must be the new math but by my calculations the 1.4" valves
 flow approx. 50% less than the 2.8" which is alot more than .001"

           E.J.

  >>

Geez....  sorry, I do all the calculations above, and foget to put " flow just
slightly under (.001 in.) >HALF< of...".  Yes, I brain-farted, and missed that
one, no "New Math" here, thank you....

Chris Ruper

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 13:36:33 +0000
From: "Joe Gerschutz" <gerschjt@flyernet.udayton.edu>
Subject: Re: Trunk sticker (Was F41 suspension)

I know the 82 Cutlass's had trunk stickers, I have seen them.  The
one I (hopefully will soon) have is pretty torn up though;  its
almost impossible to read any of it.

Joe


>Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 20:04:07 +0000
>.From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@nbn.net
>Subject: Re: F41 suspension

>mrada wrote:

> Aside from the obvious of finding a build sheet, how could I tell
> what I have (ie UA1, V03, Y67)?
>
> Chris Sparks

>Chris

>I was gonna tell you to look at the label under the trunk lid, but I
>don't know if they were doing that in '82.  Truthfully I don't even
>know if they did it in '85.  I was fortunate that the '85 came with
>the window sticker so I didn't have to look real far.  Anyone know
>when they started that sticker under the trunk thing?  I know my
>Dad's '86 Delta had one.

>Paul
>- --
>Paul Hartlieb
>Myerstown, PA
>mailto:plh@nbn.net
>'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe
>'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible



- --------------------------------------------------
- ---Joe Gerschutz------------------------------
- ---University of Dayton----------------------
- ---gerschjt@flyernet.udayton.edu--------
- --------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 13:34:21 EST
From: CRuper1 <CRuper1@aol.com>
Subject: Re: TEMPORARY rem*val from the list

In a message dated 97-12-11 09:28:41 EST, you write:

<<
 Dear Olds List:
      I am Brent's best friend. I am sending this at his request. As some
 of you may already know, Brent was married Saturday afternoon. He
 requested that I log into his hotmail and ask to have his address
 rem*ved from the Olds list temporarily.
<snip>
 He wanted to be certain that I told you
 that he wishes he could remain on the list for this period as he enjoys
 the info. and h*lp, but that the amount of information that would be
 lost would not be worthwhile. Thank you very much for seeing that this
 gets taken care of.

 R.C. Righter >>

WOW!  I think some congrats are in order for Brent when he comes back!
First, on his getting married.
Second, for "sending" a person to "cancel him out temporarily", rather than
letting things bounce until it all crashed, type of thing.
Third, for the hellacious job he did of sucking up to us, to maintain good
standing.

It's better than being "threatened through legal channels" to be rem*ved from
the list.

Chris Ruper

BTW, Congratulations on your marriage!!!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 97 14:04:24 -0500
From: "Padavano.Joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Re: Engine ID


..I'd like to get some sort of an idea what block and what original horsepower
rating it is at....

     Tough to do.  You can get a _little_ more info from the engine ID
     number stamped into a pad on the left front corner of the block, just
     below the cylinder head.  The number should look something like:

          39MXXXXXX

     where:

     First Digit = GM Division (3 = Olds)
     Second Digit = year of mfg (9 = 69, 0 = 70, etc)
     Third Digit = Manufacturing plant (M = Lansing, see the FAQ for
     others)
     Fourth through ninth = Last six digits of VIN of the car the motor
     originally came out of

     Now, obviously this doesn't provide all of the information you're
     looking for, but you do get something.  Year of manufacture is nice to
     know.  Additionally, the manufacturing plant _may_ provide some info
     as to the motor's original use.  For example, if the letter is an "X",
     that signifies Kansas City, which only produced full size cars (88s
     and 98s).  Framingham (the letter escapes me at the moment) built only
     A-bodies.  Lansing, on the other hand, built all Olds car lines
     (surprise), so an "M" doesn't tell you much.

     Hope this helps.

     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 14:04:43 EST
From: RCKTPWR <RCKTPWR@aol.com>
Subject: Re: G-body model

In a message dated 97-12-11 11:37:42 EST, you write:

<<   I hate to say it, but that car is way
 cooler than any factory Cutlass of the 80's (when looking at the entire
 package).   >>
Well, performance wise, cant argue the 86-87 gn(x). But looks??? I think your
not gonna find any takers for that on this list. I think the Olds
Cutlass/442/Salon was much better looking, IMHO. My 86 Salon is black on
maroon int, and the nose w/its chrome accents around the lites and grille area
is sharp!!!
Bernie

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 13:09:27 -0500
From: "Mike Krumwiede MIS Technician" <krumwiede@mis.highland.cc.il.us>
Subject: Re: The one that got away

Well, a while back I had asked how much an 85 Olds Cultass 442 with a
transplanted 455 would be worth, he was asking $2500.00 Well, I was
in the process of getting the loan, and the bank dragged there feet
too long and now it belongs to some guy in chicago who is
driving it for a "winter beater", the original owner told me the  guy
told him he didn't want to bang up his new Mazda durring the winter
months....The one that got away.

1977 Olds Cutlass 350 4bbl
1978 Olds Delta 88 Royale 350 4bbl

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mike Krumwiede - MIS Technician
Highland Community College
Phone (815) 235-6121
Fax (815) 235-6130
Home Page http://www.highland.cc.il.us
Mailto:Krumwiede@mis.highland.cc.il.us
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 97 14:16:16 -0500
From: "Padavano.Joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Re: Are these SSIIIs something special?

Greg Pruett asked:

Anyon know by any chance what they're from?  Run of the mill cutlass? 442?
Monte SS?


     Greg,

     Are you _sure_ they're SSIIIs?  From the paint description, they sound
     like Monte SS wheels.  I also think there were some Camaros with this
     wheel as well.  The Chevy wheels will have a different hole shape than
     the Olds wheels.  Somebody correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm _sure_
     somebody will ;-) but weren't the only SSII/SSIII rims without bezels
     the chrome ones?

     Speaking of SSIIIs, I was wondering if the wheels used on the 77 Delta
     88 Indy Pace car replicas used a 5 on 5 bolt pattern or a 5 on 4 3/4
     pattern?  Were there _any_ SSII/SSIII rims with a 5 on 5 bolt pattern?

     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30




------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 14:09:11 EST
From: RCKTPWR <RCKTPWR@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Centennial celebration plaque

I just got mine in the mail, its pretty sharp looking!! Also love the banner!!
My plaque ª is 1943.......
Bernie

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 14:20:49 -0500
From: "Jason K. Adcock" <jadcock@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: G-body model

RCKTPWR wrote:
>
> Cutlass/442/Salon was much better looking, IMHO. My 86 Salon is black on
> maroon int, and the nose w/its chrome accents around the lites and grille 
area
> is sharp!!!

Yeah, my 84 Calais is white with chrome on the front with the inside of the
bezels painted black and amber turn signals.  With the T-Tops and white
letter tires (if you're following the "tires" thread, I think I'm going
with 225/60's) and chrome wheels, a guy at a parts yard actally asked me if
it was a Hurst.  I gotta agree, those G-Body Oldsmobiles were the most
beautiful car to come out of Detroit in the eighties (with the possible
exception of the low-po, but slick-looking early-80's Corvettes.  I love
the looks of those!  The '84 Corvette's looks went to pot, I think.  The C5
isn't that bad, though.
_____________________________

Jason K. Adcock
mailto:jadcock@vt.edu
http://www.erols.com/adcockjk

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 14:24:46 -0500
From: "Tracey Monske x4794" <monske@ct.picker.com>
Subject: Re: TEMPORARY rem*val from the list

Gee -- Can I get permanently removed???

It's not that I don't like Olds's -- I do -- It's just that this is my e-mail
at work and it's a pain to get all this chit-chat stuff -- Monday there were
over 200 messages from the weekend!!!


On 11 Dec 97 at 13:34, CRuper1 wrote:

> In a message dated 97-12-11 09:28:41 EST, you write:
>
> <<
>  Dear Olds List:
>       I am Brent's best friend. I am sending this at his request. As some
>  of you may already know, Brent was married Saturday afternoon. He
>  requested that I log into his hotmail and ask to have his address
>  rem*ved from the Olds list temporarily.
> <snip>
>  He wanted to be certain that I told you
>  that he wishes he could remain on the list for this period as he enjoys
>  the info. and h*lp, but that the amount of information that would be
>  lost would not be worthwhile. Thank you very much for seeing that this
>  gets taken care of.
>
>  R.C. Righter >>
>
> WOW!  I think some congrats are in order for Brent when he comes back!
> First, on his getting married.
> Second, for "sending" a person to "cancel him out temporarily", rather than
> letting things bounce until it all crashed, type of thing.
> Third, for the hellacious job he did of sucking up to us, to maintain good
> standing.
>
> It's better than being "threatened through legal channels" to be rem*ved from
> the list.
>
> Chris Ruper
>
> BTW, Congratulations on your marriage!!!
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 13:29:42 -0600
From: Scott.Wheeler@pinnacle-brands.com
Subject: Re: Engine ID

Thanks Joe!!!

If I can narrow down the year of manufacture on the motor I have a great
little list on the possible horsepower of the block!

Anybody know where I can find some Garnet/Dark red interior peices for my
68 442 Conv?

Thanks again Joe!

Scott Wheeler
68 442 Conv





padavano.joe@Orbital.COM on 12/11/97 01:04:24 PM

Please respond to oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca

To:   oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
cc:    (bcc: Scott Wheeler/PrePress/PBI)
Subject:  Re: Engine ID






..I'd like to get some sort of an idea what block and what original
horsepower
rating it is at....
     Tough to do.  You can get a _little_ more info from the engine ID
     number stamped into a pad on the left front corner of the block, just
     below the cylinder head.  The number should look something like:
          39MXXXXXX
     where:
     First Digit = GM Division (3 = Olds)
     Second Digit = year of mfg (9 = 69, 0 = 70, etc)
     Third Digit = Manufacturing plant (M = Lansing, see the FAQ for
     others)
     Fourth through ninth = Last six digits of VIN of the car the motor
     originally came out of
     Now, obviously this doesn't provide all of the information you're
     looking for, but you do get something.  Year of manufacture is nice to
     know.  Additionally, the manufacturing plant _may_ provide some info
     as to the motor's original use.  For example, if the letter is an "X",
     that signifies Kansas City, which only produced full size cars (88s
     and 98s).  Framingham (the letter escapes me at the moment) built only
     A-bodies.  Lansing, on the other hand, built all Olds car lines
     (surprise), so an "M" doesn't tell you much.
     Hope this helps.
     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com
     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 97 14:34 EST
From: turley@symplex.com (Mike Turley)
Subject: Re: The one that got away

> Does anyone else have a story about an Olds that they
> coulda/shoulda/woulda bought, but for some reason didn't, and has
> regretted that decision ever since?

In the summer of '84 I went to a big car show (Carnival of Cars, I think its
called) on Van Dyke Rd. in Utica MI.  All the cars were arranged by
manufacturer.  Not many Olds compared to other marques.

There was this beautifully "ugly" plain jane '66 F-85 post car there.  Closer
inspection revealed that it was a 442.  It was kind of a pale green
color with a pale green vinyl interior, bench seat, 3-spd manual,
no radio, no power accesories, steel wheels w/ small hubcaps.  Here's
the good part - 1 owner, unrestored, factory L-69, 40 some thousand miles.
Asking price, $1800.00.

According to the FAQ there were 157 L-69 F-85 post coupes built.  Also,
according to the FAQ there were only 103 3 spd. F-85 post coupes.
So I'd say that the number of 3 spd. L-69 post coupes was significantly
less than 100.

I passed on it not knowing exactly what it was and thinking that a post
coupe was nothing compared to a Holiday Coupe.  Live and learn :).

Allowing a 10% increase for the last 13 years would yield $6214.00, and
I'd gladly pay that today for a similar car.

Mike Turley       '66 442
turley@symplex.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 15:03:01 -0500
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Re:  Engine ID

>Does anyone know how to ID an Olds motor??? I've done the basics...block
>number is 396021F...generic 68/72 455 block number and has J heads, 73-76
>455 4-barrel heads, but of course the code on the oil fill tube is gone.
>The motor is in my 68 442 conv bolted up to the original OG 400
>transmission.
>
>I'd like to get some sort of an idea what block and what original
>horsepower rating it is at.

Can you see the VIN derivative on the stamped pad on the block below the ª1
sparkplug? That'd be a place to start, at least for the year.
__________________________________________________________
Bob Barry       MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu

1969 Toronado 455/TH425
     See it at http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/drbob69.htm
1970 Cutlass Supreme SX 455/TH400
1978 Electra Limited 409/TH400

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 14:41:48 -0500
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: NO MORE AIR

>              IN MY RALLYE THE COMPONENTS OF MY AIR CONDITIONING SYSTEM UNDER
>THE HOOD ARE GONE    ALL THAT REMAINS IS THE BIG BOX ON THE FIREWALL   WHAT
>HAPPENS WHEN I REMOVE THI  WHAT WILL I FIND UNDER THIS     CAN I PUT ANOTHER
>COVER ON THIS AND IF SO   WHERE COULD I FIND ONE

There will be a few large holes in the firewall; one for the fan intake,
and one for the A/C air to enter the interior heater box.

You could replace it with another cover, but you'd have to custom make one;
the factory non-A/C box was of a different configuration, and will not
match up to the holes on the firewall (tried it- didn't work). You could
always use the original box as a pattern or basis for the replacement box;
it would already include the mount for the fan (I'm assuming you want to
keep some kind of heat and ventilation).

Heck, this is something that I thought the aftermarket would have come up
with by now: a simple heavy-duty fiberglass box to convert an A/C car to
non-A/C.
__________________________________________________________
Bob Barry       MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu

1969 Toronado 455/TH425
     See it at http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/drbob69.htm
1970 Cutlass Supreme SX 455/TH400
1978 Electra Limited 409/TH400

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 15:01:14 -0500
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: 455 build up on budget

>As I have mentioned in my "455 fit in 1981 Delta" email, I would like to
>rebuild the 455 from a 76 Delta and put it in the 1981 Delta.  The motor
>runs, but burns a bit of oil on start-up and is so out of tune, that my

This is certainly the time to rebuild it, since that oil burning isn't
going to get better on its own.

>not sure of what the compresion ratio was on that 76 455 or what kind of
>horses/tourqe it put out.  I don't have a lot of money to spend, so my

About 8.2:1 compression, and 205hp/360ft/lbs or something like that.

>first choice would be to keep the pistons if possible and just purchase a
>rebuild kit from a local engine shop with bearings, gaskets, o-rings,
>timing chain and an RV cam/lifter set with a little more juice.  It is my

That sounds like what's called a "re-ring" kit. Check around for the best
price; many places sell these kits.

>understanding that I could increase the compression by changing the
>pistons, so if I had to change them, I would like to incrase the
>compression.  If I do change the pistons, which compression should I go to
>max. so that I can run the car on pump gas.  Is there any other way to
>increase compression without changing the pistons?  Also, what kind of cam

If you do end up needing new pistons, go with the 10.25:1 pistons. They
won't yield a true 10.25:1 compression ratio, but rather around 9.5:1,
which is perfectly streetable. My two 455's are perfectly happy with those,
although I do need 91-93 octane gas. If you want to run 87 octane in there,
go with the stock compression ratio.

>should I go for as I still need good idle and cold-wether starts.  I would
>need to keep the stock intake manifold and rebuild the carb.  Headers and
>dulas would be good if cleareance premits and also a K&N filter element
>with and a flexi-fan. I also heard that increasing the intake ports on the
>heads would give an engine a bit more power.  Basically, if anyone has a
>cheap recepie for this engine for best power and economy, please pass it
>on.  Also, if you have any sugestions to use/not use things I mentioned,

Stock intake and carb would be fine, especially if you are on a budget.
They're also easy enough to change out in the future if you get the
resources to upgrade. With a rebuild, you want to do all the things now
that would simply be too much trouble to change later (like compression
ratio, bottom end preparation, oiling system, camshaft, etc.).

The K&N is a good idea, but I'd stick with the stock clutch fan.

If you have access to a die grinder, then porting your heads is simply the
cost of the carbide burrs and your time. Just go easy, and follow the
porting advice in the FAQ. You can match the ports on the intake and head
for a bit more horsepower, but if you're not going wild with the cam, then
don't overdo it. Also, don't neglect to port the exhaust manifolds if
you're using cast iron ones (I don't think you'll find headers specifically
for this application; a good set of 442 manifolds would be a better option,
especially for a mild engine).

>please tell me.  Do you think it would be better to rebuild the 307 with an
>RV cam, raise the rear end (stock 2:73), add headers and dual exaust, maybe
>edelbrock intake manifold for the 1981 Delta?  Also, could I use the HEI

As long as you're within your emissions laws, rebuild a 455; it will cost
the same as rebuilding the 307 (less, actually), and give you twice as much
power.

>distributor out of the 307 on the 455?  What kind of power could I expect
>out of the 455 when done and how much quicker would it be then the 307
>running a stock 2:73 rear end.  The 1981 Delta is some 700 pounds ligther
>then the 76.  Thanks.

You can use the 307's distributor; in fact, you could also use the 307's
computer-controlled carb.

How much quicker will it be? Well, lets just say that tirespin will now
become a problem... ;)

I'd imagine you'll shave at least two seconds off your 0-60 times, and that
you'll have a top speed of around 125-130mph.

>right up.  I also have a realy good shape TH250 in it with a trans cooler.
>I would like to mate this dog tranny to the mild 455 until I can afford
>another trans.  I also have the TH400 out of the 76 Delta but I have heard
>that I would need to do extensive mods to the car to fit this tranny in.

The '81 Delta should be able to accept the 455/TH400 combination quite
easily. You'd have to shorten the driveshaft, but that's well worth it.

>Will the TH250 last a while behind the 455.  Also, I would really

I wouldn't count on the TH250 lasting very long behind the 455; it's not
the hp, but the torque that will turn your tranny into a metallic Cuisinart.

Others have done this swap, though, and should be able to tell you more
details.
__________________________________________________________
Bob Barry       MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu

1969 Toronado 455/TH425
     See it at http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/drbob69.htm
1970 Cutlass Supreme SX 455/TH400
1978 Electra Limited 409/TH400

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 14:45:34 -0500
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: wheel grease part 2

>> Being lazy, do I have to clean and re-grease both bearings or
>> can I just shove  a glop in.  >
>
>Oh for God sake man!  If you think repacking wheel bearings is alot of
 [snip]
>someone do the bearings for you.  (still cheaper than buying a new
>spindle)
>
>You made me feel better though, I thought I was the laziest person on
>this list!  :)

OK, Ok, before we get into a shouting match about who's lazier (I'd say I'm
in the top five...;), there is one "wonder-tool" that I now own, and don't
know how I got along so long without.

Buy yourself a bearing packer; it's a pair of conical disks that mount on
either side of the bearing, to which you hook up your grease gun. Put some
disc-brake bearing grease in the gun, and pump it until all the old grease
is out and the new grease starts coming out. A lot easier, a lot quicker,
and a lot less messy than doing it by hand.

__________________________________________________________
Bob Barry       MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu

1969 Toronado 455/TH425
     See it at http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/drbob69.htm
1970 Cutlass Supreme SX 455/TH400
1978 Electra Limited 409/TH400

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 15:06:06 +0500
From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett )
Subject: Re: Are these SSIIIs something special?

>
>Greg Pruett asked:
>
>Anyon know by any chance what they're from?  Run of the mill cutlass? 442?
>Monte SS?
>
>
>     Greg,
>
>     Are you _sure_ they're SSIIIs?

Nope.  I'm not sure.  They _resemble_ SSIIIs, they look like the pictures of
them in the  year one caltalog.  They have 5 spokes, 5 holes and they use
trim rings.

> From the paint description, they sound
>     like Monte SS wheels.  I also think there were some Camaros with this
>     wheel as well.  The Chevy wheels will have a different hole shape than
>     the Olds wheels.

I got a better look, compared the wheel with the picture.  It looks like the
holes in the wheels come to a sharper point than the wheels pictured in the
year one catalog.  (does that make sense?)  Sound like a chevy wheel?

Even if they are chevy wheels I won't sweat it too much.  As long as  they
bolt up I can always throw some Olds hubcaps on them to hide my shame. :)

Thanks.

Greg Pruett
72 Vista Cruiser
67 Cutlass Supreme
80 Cutlass Calais

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:10:12 -0800 (PST)
From: John Pajak <jspajak@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: The one that got away

- ---Thomas G Allen <mutga1@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> wrote:
Does anyone else have a story about an Olds that they
coulda/shoulda/woulda bought, but for some reason didn't, and has
regretted that decision ever since?

!!!!!!!!!!!!!
About 1988:
1970 442 convertible. Triple white, 140K, minor rust (repaired),
$1300. I was buying a house at the time and couldn't afford it :(

About 1990-2:
1969 H/O. Not number matching, missing air cleaner, needed some work
but presentable. $4500. At the time I had too many projects so I
passed :(

But I have enough cars now. No! one can never have enough cars :)

Still searching for a reasonable 70 442 HT.........

===
John Pajak                            JSPajak@rocketmail.com
Lexington Park, Maryland  HTTP://members.tripod.com/~JSPajak

65 Delta 88 2dr    70 Cutlass S 2dr       72 Cutlass conv
66 Toronado deluxe 70 Cutlass S W31       72 Delta 88 conv
69 Cutlass S 2dr   70 442 W30 conv        72 442 W30 conv
70 Cutlass S 2dr   71 Cutlass Supreme 2dr 86 Cutlass Supreme




_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:23:11 -0800 (PST)
From: John Pajak <jspajak@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Are these SSIIIs something special?

- --"Padavano.Joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM> wrote:
Jow Padavano wrote:

Speaking of SSIIIs, I was wondering if the wheels used on the 77 Delta
88 Indy Pace car replicas used a 5 on 5 bolt pattern or a 5 on 4 3/4
pattern?  Were there _any_ SSII/SSIII rims with a 5 on 5 bolt pattern?

!!!!
     The later (77-up) RWD Deltas used the 4 3/4 pattern unless
equipped with a 403 in which case they had the big bolt pattern that
the 98s and Custom Cruiser station wagons have.
     There are NO SSII/III wheels with a 5 on 5 pattern.....wish there
was!

===
John Pajak                            JSPajak@rocketmail.com
Lexington Park, Maryland  HTTP://members.tripod.com/~JSPajak

65 Delta 88 2dr    70 Cutlass S 2dr       72 Cutlass conv
66 Toronado deluxe 70 Cutlass S W31       72 Delta 88 conv
69 Cutlass S 2dr   70 442 W30 conv        72 442 W30 conv
70 Cutlass S 2dr   71 Cutlass Supreme 2dr 86 Cutlass Supreme

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:16:54 -0800
From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Subject: Re: The one that got away

Mike Turley wrote:

> I passed on it not knowing exactly what it was and thinking that a
> post coupe was nothing compared to a Holiday Coupe.  Live and learn
> :).

Don't let Joe Padavano hear this!  Blasphemy!  I am cool on post
coupes! :-)

later.....

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 97 16:06:10 -0500
From: "Padavano.Joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Re[2]: Are these SSIIIs something special?

I got a better look, compared the wheel with the picture.  It looks like the
holes in the wheels come to a sharper point than the wheels pictured in the
year one catalog.  (does that make sense?)  Sound like a chevy wheel?

     Yep.  That's the one.  Sold by the millions (?) on Montes, Camaros,
     Malibus (Malibues?  Malibi?), El Caminos, etc.

     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30




------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 04:19:39 -0500
From: mrhell@m1.sprynet.com
Subject: Re: The one that got away

>John Pajak                            JSPajak@rocketmail.com
>Lexington Park, Maryland  HTTP://members.tripod.com/~JSPajak
>
>65 Delta 88 2dr    70 Cutlass S 2dr       72 Cutlass conv
>66 Toronado deluxe 70 Cutlass S W31       72 Delta 88 conv
>69 Cutlass S 2dr   70 442 W30 conv        72 442 W30 conv
>70 Cutlass S 2dr   71 Cutlass Supreme 2dr 86 Cutlass Supreme>


My God John, it looks like you don't pass-up too many cars!  That's
quite a collection you got going there.  I gotta ask, where/how in the
heck do you store these beauties?  Also, how do you decide which one to
drive?  <<RC pictures a spinning wheel>>  One more and you'll have a
bakers dozen!  :)  If you ever need a volunteer to drive one of your
cars to a show, (so you can show more than one), I volunteer!!!  :)

I hope to have 3 or 4 vintages one day myself.  Until then, my lone
4-4-2 continues to make me happier than a pig in you know what!


RC Hellebuyck
1971 4-4-2 covt.

http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/mrhell/driving.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 16:33:39 -0500
From: m-hanneman@onu.edu
Subject: Re: The one that got away

What a waste!!!!!!!!   Anyone who would drive a 442 for a winter car
instead of a mazda should be shot!!!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 15:47:42 -0600
From: "Ryan Collins" <KickinBrass@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Olds & Youth

Hey Doug, this is Jake.  I saw your message and just thought that I would
tell you I am 18 too.  I have a 72 Cutlass Supreme with a 455 in it.  Write
me back sometime.


Jake Collins
La Porte, TX
'72 Supreme

- ----------
> From: Doug Newman <dnewman@wcbi.com>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Olds & Youth
> Date: Wednesday, December 10, 1997 11:16 PM
>
> Brad Ross wrote:
>
> >  <snip>  I have a 1971 Delta Royale (77,000 miles)
> >and a 1971 Delta Custom town sedan (57,290 miles)    <snip>
> >I drove the Delta Custom in the motorcade in Lansing, and I show both of
my
> >cars during the summer.
> >By the way, I am 18 years old
>
>
> Now, who says America's youth is going down the tubes?  :-)
>
> Doug Newman
> Columbus, MS
> 1987 442
>
> http://www.442.com/newman.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 16:53:44 EST
From: DR OLDS350 <DROLDS350@aol.com>
Subject: Re: W-31 Rallye 350's

That was my question. I wrote it. I emailed Musclecar Review and they posted
my question in their magazine.

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 16:01:21 -0600
From: Eric.Aksomitis@swp.com
Subject: RE:  Re: Olds & Youth

Yeah, I'm 20 and just got a 71 Cutlass to go with my 72 98 and 75 cutlass
Eric Aksomitis
http://www.cs.uregina.ca/~aksomi/

 --------
Hey Doug, this is Jake.  I saw your message and just thought that I would
tell you I am 18 too.  I have a 72 Cutlass Supreme with a 455 in it.  Write
me back sometime.


Jake Collins
La Porte, TX
'72 Supreme

 ----------
> From: Doug Newman <dnewman@wcbi.com>
> >  <snip>  I have a 1971 Delta Royale (77,000 miles)
> >and a 1971 Delta Custom town sedan (57,290 miles)    <snip>
> >I drove the Delta Custom in the motorcade in Lansing, and I show both of
my
> >cars during the summer.
> >By the way, I am 18 years old
>
>
> Now, who says America's youth is going down the tubes?  :-)
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:46:02 -0500
From: Jerry Christopher <IThEFunKI@ViperLink.Net>
Subject: Re: G-body model

RCKTPWR wrote:
>
> In a message dated 97-12-11 11:37:42 EST, you write:
>
> <<   I hate to say it, but that car is way
>  cooler than any factory Cutlass of the 80's (when looking at the entire
>  package).   >>

> Well, performance wise, cant argue the 86-87 gn(x). But looks??? I think your
> not gonna find any takers for that on this list. I think the Olds
> Cutlass/442/Salon was much better looking, IMHO. My 86 Salon is black on
> maroon int, and the nose w/its chrome accents around the lites and grille 
area
> is sharp!!!

Found one here! <G>  I was looking for a decent Monte Carlo SS, or
Cutlass, or an UNMOLESTED Grand National, or Grand Prix 80's G-Body.  I
looked at quite a few GNs.  I kinda like all the blacked out chrome
stuff...  It's all interchangable with the Regal....

BTW, The Regal and Monte Carlo LS had to be in REAL nice shape for me to
even think about buying....  I got LUCKY, I got a Cutlass Supreme with
the 307 3Spd Column in AWESOME shape by accident for $2000 even!  Such
ends this search...  I'd still trade my Cutlass for a decent GN in a
heart beat.........  Just something about turbo charged V6's FACTORY
AMERICAN STEEL I love!
- --
                 Jerry Christopher
     ___        HTTP://WWW2.Viperlink.Net/Members/IThEFunKI
 ___/.o \__,      1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
_=O------O=__________It ain't my father's Oldsmobile_______

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 15:45:08 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: I almost had a 71

Let me know if I'm a fool or the other guy is please.  Over the summer i
went to look at a 71 Cutlass S convertible that was for sale.  I was
hoping it was owned by a senior citizen, but it was owned by a 400 pound
hairy alcoholic instead.  Still cool though.  The condition of the car was
rather poor.  It had a considerable amount of rust around the wheels and
some other spots.  The interior was totally trashed, slashed seats, no
headliner, stains, ripped carpet, etc., etc.  The top on it was new,
surprisingly, and it still had no problems moving.  The engine was
original (350), and the car had 160,000 miles.  I drove it, and, not to my
surprise since it is an Olds, it ran quite smoothly.  The electrical
system in the car was really rigged.  There were wires hanging out that
you had to twist together if you wanted to listen to the radio or put the
top down and stuff like that.  Anyway, this guy was asking $4500 for this
car.  I realize that this car is valuable and all, but that much for the
shape it was in?  Is he nuts?  Thanks

Ray dealing with "El Nino" in the Sonoran Desert Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:45:33 EST
From: ANTIQ OLDS <ANTIQOLDS@aol.com>
Subject: Re: NO MORE AIR

In a message dated 97-12-11 15:34:49 EST, you write:

<<
 Heck, this is something that I thought the aftermarket would have come up
 with by now: a simple heavy-duty fiberglass box to convert an A/C car to
 non-A/C.
 __________________________________________________________
 B >>
   Karls Korner Worth Ill 1-708-597-0415 has fabricated the firewall section
under this heater or  A/C box for anyone that wants to go either way, add a/c
or delete a/c. They are about $75.00  and are a nice unit. He had them at the
Atlanta Nationals in '96 so got a chance to see how good they are, well worth
the money.

Everett  OCAª 1961   1961 Starfire

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 15:49:22 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: The one that got away

Hey Tom,
Some guy specifically asked me to buy his 64(?) Dynamic 88 for $300
because he was moving and he knew I liked Oldses.  I didn't buy it and it
wound up in a junkyard and/or getting crushed.  I always tell myself my
excuse was that it was shortly after high school and I didn't have much
money.  Damn it!


On Thu, 11 Dec 1997, Thomas G Allen wrote:

>
> Does anyone else have a story about an Olds that they
> coulda/shoulda/woulda bought, but for some reason didn't, and has
> regretted that decision ever since?
>
> Here's mine:
>
> In 1993, I worked at an auto parts store in Ft. Madison, Iowa.  In late
> June or early July, a repair shop across the river in Niota, Illinois had
> for sale a late-60's, early-70's Cutlass S with a straight, rust-free
> body, nice interior with buckets and console, and a 455.  The guy was
> asking $400, and probably would have taken less because the Mississippi
> was rising and he was about to be evacuated from his shop.  At the time, I
> didn't need another project, so I passed.  I don't know what happened to
> the car, but I still kick myself every time I think about it.
>
> Honorable mention:
>
> 68-72 442
> mid-70's H/O   Both sitting behind the lot of the local olds dealer when I
> was in high school (mid-80's) in neglected but definitely restorable
> condition. I don't know if they could have been purchased or not, but I
> wish I would have asked.
>
> Early 442      Right after high school, a friend's girlfriend said her dad
> had a car with "a huge engine.  It says on the fender that it's a
> 400-something."  I went to her house, and it was an early 442.  I can't
> remember the exact condition, but I think it was complete, straight, and
> mostly rust-free.  I never asked about this car either.
>
>
>
>

Ray dealing with "El Nino" in the Sonoran Desert Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 15:52:08 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: engine ID by VIN

Question:
I know on my Cutli that the 8th character in the VIN id's the original
engine.  Is this true for all GM's, all American cars, all Oldses or what?
If so, what would the character be for a 403 in say an Olds Custom
Cruiser?  Will this code be the same on any 403 vehicle?
Thankyou

Ray dealing with "El Nino" in the Sonoran Desert Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 15:54:29 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Are these SSIIIs something special?

Hey Greg,
If you only wanted some 15x7's how about if we trade.  I've got a set of
15x7 Centerline Draglites, brushed aluminum.

On Thu, 11 Dec 1997, Greg Pruett wrote:

> I picked up some super stock wheels today.  They look like SSIII rims but
> they don't have the chrome bezels around the triangular holes and don't look
> like they ever did.  They're black on grey, the black is painted where the
> trim would normally go.  They had chrome trim rings at one time but they're
> gone now.  Center caps are long gone too.  They're 15x7 with roughly 3 3/8
> inch backspacing.
>
> Here's what's stamped on the inner side of the rim:
>
> 4D 06 08 85 975 15x7 JJ MW5 T MADE IN CANADA
>
> The 3.0 version of the FAQ says that the JJ stamping may indicate Hurst Olds
> rims.  That 06 08 85 looks like a date so I guess they can't be H/O rims
> since 84 was the last year for the H/O.  Anyon know by any chance what
> they're from?  Run of the mill cutlass? 442?  Monte SS?
>
> I was just wondering because they look a little unusual.  I really only
> bought them because I wanted some 15x7 rims.  It was just a happy
> coincidence that I found these SSIIIs cheap.
>
> Thanks
>
> Greg Pruett
> 72 Vista Cruiser
> 67 Cutlass Surpeme
> 80 Cutlass Calais
>
>

Ray dealing with "El Nino" in the Sonoran Desert Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:48:44 -0500
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Are these SSIIIs something special?

Greg Pruett wrote:
>
> I picked up some super stock wheels today.  They look like SSIII rims but
> they don't have the chrome bezels around the triangular holes and don't look
> like they ever did.  They're black on grey, the black is painted where the
> trim would normally go.  They had chrome trim rings at one time but they're
> gone now.

This MAY be chevy, but it all depends on what you mean by "sharper"
points.  The holes in the older SSII/III versions were more rounded than
the open holes on the newer versions.  If the center cap area is
recessed, it is probably a chevy wheel.  If it sticks out with a small
hole where a cap would snap on, then it MAY be Olds.  I'm having a tough
time trying to picture this wheel.  If it is a 15 X 7, and it has a 4
3/4" wheel pattern, bolt em on and go!  The Olds wheels that were
chromed did not have the trim rings around the wheel openings.  The
painted wheels did, and also only the painted wheels had the outer trim
ring.  If this is definitely the case, it would rule out the Cutlass
Salon/442.  They came with chrome SSIII wheels, either 14 X 6 (salon) or
15 X 7 (442).  I find nothing in any of my references that anything but
14" wheels came on the 85 Cutlass unless it had the 442 option.  The
only listing I can find is "PH1- Wheel, 15 X 7 JJ" for a "B" body.

These wheels are from an 85 model year, and if they were "factory"
silver with black paint trim around the holes, then they are probably
off a Monte Carlo SS.  The MC SS did not go to all aluminum wheel until
86.

Some of my pennies dropped in the ring....
- --
Mike Rothe
69 H/O
71 442 HT
85 442 T-top
76 GMC 1/2 ton, 502 c.i.

http://pages.prodigy.net/mrothe/rocket.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 18:03:49 -0500
From: Jerry Christopher <IThEFunKI@ViperLink.Net>
Subject: Re: The one that got away

Thomas G Allen wrote:
>
> Does anyone else have a story about an Olds that they
> coulda/shoulda/woulda bought, but for some reason didn't, and has
> regretted that decision ever since?

I have one too...  There's was an F85 (I think a 63-65 can't remember
EXACTLY) at the shop where my friend was doing his auto mechanic's
co-op.  I used to hang out there and just stare at it...  It was
charcoal grey with a V8 column shift 2Spd Auto (We called it slip and
slide).  Might of been a six, but I wasn't REAL big on GM at the time.
It had the SS style mags on it, and was in SHARP shape...  Ran
perfect...  My dad and I decided it was "too old" and that $650 was too
much to be asking for a car with 75,ooo miles on it....  2 weeks later I
came home with a NASTY 78 Buick LeSabre with a Buick 350.  If only I
wasn't so "agreeable" at that time.........

I'd LOVE to know what happened to it.  4years ago it was there! <G>
- --
                 Jerry Christopher
     ___        HTTP://WWW2.Viperlink.Net/Members/IThEFunKI
 ___/.o \__,      1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
_=O------O=__________It ain't my father's Oldsmobile_______

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:06:38 -0600
From: Scott.Wheeler@pinnacle-brands.com
Subject: Re: engine ID by VIN

RAY,

See the following response to my same question from Joe...

 Tough to do.  You can get a _little_ more info from the engine ID
     number stamped into a pad on the left front corner of the block, just
     below the cylinder head.  The number should look something like:
          39MXXXXXX
     where:
     First Digit = GM Division (3 = Olds)
     Second Digit = year of mfg (9 = 69, 0 = 70, etc)
     Third Digit = Manufacturing plant (M = Lansing, see the FAQ for
     others)
     Fourth through ninth = Last six digits of VIN of the car the motor
     originally came out of
     Now, obviously this doesn't provide all of the information you're
     looking for, but you do get something.  Year of manufacture is nice to
     know.  Additionally, the manufacturing plant _may_ provide some info
     as to the motor's original use.  For example, if the letter is an "X",
     that signifies Kansas City, which only produced full size cars (88s
     and 98s).  Framingham (the letter escapes me at the moment) built only
     A-bodies.  Lansing, on the other hand, built all Olds car lines
     (surprise), so an "M" doesn't tell you much.
     Hope this helps.
     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com
     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30






rayc@U.Arizona.EDU on 12/11/97 04:52:08 PM

Please respond to oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca

To:   oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
cc:    (bcc: Scott Wheeler/PrePress/PBI)
Subject:  engine ID by VIN





Question:
I know on my Cutli that the 8th character in the VIN id's the original
engine.  Is this true for all GM's, all American cars, all Oldses or what?
If so, what would the character be for a 403 in say an Olds Custom
Cruiser?  Will this code be the same on any 403 vehicle?
Thankyou
Ray dealing with "El Nino" in the Sonoran Desert Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 18:07:45 -0500
From: Jerry Christopher <IThEFunKI@ViperLink.Net>
Subject: Re: The one that got away

Padavano.Joe wrote:

>      The non-Olds was a 1969 Boss 429 Mustang for $1500.  The car was
>      complete, but had spun a rod bearing.  Unfortunately, this was senior
>      year in high school (1976), and $1500 then would be like $150,000 now.
>      This is the one I'm _really_ kicking myself over!

I'm glad you mentioned it...  The two I REALLY wish I hadn't are a 70
Boss for $1000, and a 67 Fastback 289 for $1600...  I WANT a 67 FB REAL
bad...  I want one bad enough I'd give up the Olds to take one home in
decent shape... :(  The Boss was cool...  Only car I've played with that
peeled both tires (Posi) clear into second and chirped into 3rd, if the
pedal was mashed....  Again, same as you, I wa a senior in HS (95) and
noone would out right trade for my LeSabre.
- --
                 Jerry Christopher
     ___        HTTP://WWW2.Viperlink.Net/Members/IThEFunKI
 ___/.o \__,      1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
_=O------O=__________It ain't my father's Oldsmobile_______

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 16:04:15 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: G-body model

On Thu, 11 Dec 1997, RCKTPWR wrote:

> In a message dated 97-12-11 11:37:42 EST, you write:
>
> <<   I hate to say it, but that car is way
>  cooler than any factory Cutlass of the 80's (when looking at the entire
>  package).   >>
> Well, performance wise, cant argue the 86-87 gn(x). But looks??? I think your
> not gonna find any takers for that on this list. I think the Olds
> Cutlass/442/Salon was much better looking, IMHO. My 86 Salon is black on
> maroon int, and the nose w/its chrome accents around the lites and grille 
area
> is sharp!!!
> Bernie
Seriously Bernie, I love my Oldses and I think the H/O's and 442's are
beautiful looking cars.  But the Grand National is the most gorgeous (in a
sinister kind of way) car out there, regardless of its flaw of being a
Buick.  You may think your wife is pretty, but I'm sure you think someone
else out there is better looking.  It's alright to admit that in certain
company.  maybe I shouldn't have admitted to this affair I'm having with
the GN, but I can not express how beautiful of a car that is.  I could
just stare at one of those cars, though I'd rather be driving it, for
3287428 hours, no problem.  That is the best car.

p.s.  Out here in Tucson, seeing a GN is very rare.  One guy is cool
enough to have his at the dgarstrip evey now and then, but mostly they're
not around.  Where I'm from, that is Perkasie, PA in Bucks County, there
are probably five GN's within 5 minutes of my house.  There's also a guy
down the road who always has either a GN, a 442 or a Monte SS.  I think he
has some sort of rotation schedule.  All that I see around here are the
damn lowriders.


>

Ray dealing with "El Nino" in the Sonoran Desert Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 16:05:44 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: G-body model

On Thu, 11 Dec 1997, RCKTPWR wrote:

> In a message dated 97-12-11 11:37:42 EST, you write:
>
> <<   I hate to say it, but that car is way
>  cooler than any factory Cutlass of the 80's (when looking at the entire
>  package).   >>
> Well, performance wise, cant argue the 86-87 gn(x). But looks??? I think your
> not gonna find any takers for that on this list. I think the Olds
> Cutlass/442/Salon was much better looking, IMHO. My 86 Salon is black on
> maroon int, and the nose w/its chrome accents around the lites and grille 
area
> is sharp!!!
> Bernie

p.s. again
My 87 is Cadillac Dark Cherry over Chrysler Platinum with the 442 paint
scheme.  A nice black grill, too.  It's also great looking, but it's no
GN. >

Ray dealing with "El Nino" in the Sonoran Desert Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:13:06 -0600
From: Scott.Wheeler@pinnacle-brands.com
Subject: Re: I almost had a 71

Ray,

I'd say you were probably smart not to get the beater...I look at a couple
of overall things when considering a project...
1-top if convertible
2-interior
3-Paint & Body
4-Mechanics

If the car is a special edition or all the numbers matched, my decision
might be harder, but generally if 3 of the 4 things are thrashed I look
elsewhere.

Just my opinion, but I think you did good, you can find lots of good
running low rust cars down here in my neck of the woods for that kind of
cash.

Scott Wheeler
68 442 Conv




rayc@U.Arizona.EDU on 12/11/97 04:45:08 PM

Please respond to oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca

To:   oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
cc:    (bcc: Scott Wheeler/PrePress/PBI)
Subject:  I almost had a 71





Let me know if I'm a fool or the other guy is please.  Over the summer i
went to look at a 71 Cutlass S convertible that was for sale.  I was
hoping it was owned by a senior citizen, but it was owned by a 400 pound
hairy alcoholic instead.  Still cool though.  The condition of the car was
rather poor.  It had a considerable amount of rust around the wheels and
some other spots.  The interior was totally trashed, slashed seats, no
headliner, stains, ripped carpet, etc., etc.  The top on it was new,
surprisingly, and it still had no problems moving.  The engine was
original (350), and the car had 160,000 miles.  I drove it, and, not to my
surprise since it is an Olds, it ran quite smoothly.  The electrical
system in the car was really rigged.  There were wires hanging out that
you had to twist together if you wanted to listen to the radio or put the
top down and stuff like that.  Anyway, this guy was asking $4500 for this
car.  I realize that this car is valuable and all, but that much for the
shape it was in?  Is he nuts?  Thanks
Ray dealing with "El Nino" in the Sonoran Desert Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 16:08:03 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: The one that got away

On Thu, 11 Dec 1997, Mike Krumwiede MIS Technician wrote:

> Well, a while back I had asked how much an 85 Olds Cultass 442 with a
> transplanted 455 would be worth, he was asking $2500.00 Well, I was
> in the process of getting the loan, and the bank dragged there feet
> too long and now it belongs to some guy in chicago who is
> driving it for a "winter beater", the original owner told me the  guy
> told him he didn't want to bang up his new Mazda durring the winter
> months....The one that got away.


WHAT!?!  THAT GUY NEEDS A SERIOUS BEATING!  ANYONE LIVE IN CHICAGO OR WANT
TO GO THERE WITH ME TO FIND THIS GUY?  WE'LL KICK HIS A*S IN FRONT OF HIS
WIFE AND STEAL HIS CAR.


>
> 1977 Olds Cutlass 350 4bbl
> 1978 Olds Delta 88 Royale 350 4bbl
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Mike Krumwiede - MIS Technician
> Highland Community College
> Phone (815) 235-6121
> Fax (815) 235-6130
> Home Page http://www.highland.cc.il.us
> Mailto:Krumwiede@mis.highland.cc.il.us
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one."
>

Ray dealing with "El Nino" in the Sonoran Desert Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 18:05:29 EST
From: R4C442 <R4C442@aol.com>
Subject: Re: runaway engine

Hey list gang,
    Some food for thought involving the runaway engine syndrome.....suppose
you're driving a diesel...what then,hmm?
                                                       Ron Forsee
                                                       65 442-Meister
P.S. When talking about Olds V-8 sound, don't forget to tune in mine at the
Bryceman's site...no need to make do with Beach Boy Ch*vy noise when the real
thing is downloadable for your listening pleasure!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 16:12:52 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: The one that got away

On Thu, 11 Dec 1997, John Pajak wrote:
> But I have enough cars now. No! one can never have enough cars :)

really?

>
> Still searching for a reasonable 70 442 HT

> John Pajak                            JSPajak@rocketmail.com
> Lexington Park, Maryland  HTTP://members.tripod.com/~JSPajak
>
> 65 Delta 88 2dr    70 Cutlass S 2dr       72 Cutlass conv
> 66 Toronado deluxe 70 Cutlass S W31       72 Delta 88 conv
> 69 Cutlass S 2dr   70 442 W30 conv        72 442 W30 conv
> 70 Cutlass S 2dr   71 Cutlass Supreme 2dr 86 Cutlass Supreme
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________
> DO YOU YAHOO!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>

Ray dealing with "El Nino" in the Sonoran Desert Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass

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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 ª1003
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