
oldsmobile-digest       Friday, January 9 1998       Volume 01 : Number 1049



Non-Olds: Need help finding Buick mail list
Re[2]: A-Body Disk Brakes
Re: She Still Has Not Started! ('cause I'm lazy)
Re: Pulling My Leg
Re: Ignition
55 Olds Hard Starting
unsubscribe
Re[2]: Panel controvery
Re: Oh yes still reading {laughing}MUD FIGHTS
Re: Non-Olds Brakes Question
Re: A-Body Disk Brakes
Some more mechanical questions.
Re: manufacturer of panels
Re: A-Body Disk Brakes
Re: degreasing; WAS: bob's 350 ID
Re: head prices???
Re: Comfortron Heater blues??
Re: 68 Cultass "S" heater?
Re: She Still Has Not Started! ('cause I'm lazy)
Re: A-Body Disk Brakes
Re: Comfortron Heater blues??
holley installation question
Re: Motor City Rockets contact
RE: Motor City Rockets (OCA Info )
Re: A-Body Disk Brakes
Garage Queen problem - 93 SCX
Re: Garage Queen problem - 93 SCX
Re:  oldsmobile-digest V1 #1048
Re:  oldsmobile-digest V1 #1048
A/C Relay question for Dr. Barry!
9 inchers
TH 400 deal
Re: Comfortron Heater blues??
Re: She Still Has Not Started! ('cause I'm lazy)
Re[2]: She Still Has Not Started! ('cause I'm lazy)
Re: A-Body Disk Brakes
Re:  Garage Queen problem - 93 SCX
Re: 9 inchers

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 22:37:14 +0000
From: Matt Cremean <ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
Subject: Non-Olds: Need help finding Buick mail list

A freind of my father has a '53 Buick that he's restoring. He needs some
parts for it and I thought somebody might have an addy for a mail list
that would cater to that. Anybody?

Sorry for Non-Olds content!
- -- 
**********************************
Matt Cremean
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
CreamerSoftİ Software
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Park/5988/creamersoft.html
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
1973 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/73olds.html
**********************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Jan 98 22:55:46 -0500
From: "padavano.joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Re[2]: A-Body Disk Brakes

Brent Pinkstaff responded to Chris Sparks' question:
     
Although there were different rotors used form the factory, all 67-72 GM 
A Bodies use the same replacement rotor (.965 inch discard if memory 
serves). The pads on a 68, like the calipers, differ from the 69-72 
ones. The rotor is not your problem, I believe the calipers are. I don't 
think the 69-72 calipers will correctly bolt to a 1968 car.
     

     A couple of comments.  First, the single piston calipers _will_ bolt 
     on to the 68 car if the caliper mounting bracket is changed as well.  
     This part bolts onto the steering knuckle - get it off of the same car 
     as the calipers.
     
     Second, my understanding is that the early (four piston) rotors can be 
     used on the later (single piston) cars, but not the reverse.  The 
     reason is that the two rotors differ in the relationship of the rotor 
     face to the spindle, however the sliding single piston caliper can 
     accommodate this difference.  The fixed four piston unit will not.  
     Please note that this information is provided second hand from a 
     friend who claims to have done this on Pontiacs.
     
     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com
     
     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Jan 98 23:20:40 -0500
From: "padavano.joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Re: She Still Has Not Started! ('cause I'm lazy)

..Anyone care to share a method of getting that sucker off w/o using an 
impact wrench?

     Karl,
     
     Having faced the same problem you have, I ended up fabricating a tool 
     to hold the engine from turning.  Basically I used a surplus crank 
     pulley and welded a four foot bar to it.  To use it I remove the 
     original pulley (and everything else in the way) and bolt this tool in 
     place with the same three bolts.  I then use a Craftsman 1/2" drive 
     breaker bar with a section of pipe over the end (hey, they _are_ 
     unconditionally guaranteed!) and push on one while pulling on the 
     other.
     
     You _do_ realize that even after breaking this bolt free, you'll still 
     need a puller to get the balancer off.
     
     A few additional hints:
     
     When you go to use the balancer puller (a fancy name for a steering 
     wheel puller), reinstall the balancer bolt back into the snout of the 
     crank (but without the thick washer).  This will allow the puller to 
     bear against the head of the bolt and not bung up the threads in the 
     snout.
     
     Once you get the front cover off, rotate the engine until the marks on 
     the crank and cam gears line up.  You'll thank me when you try to 
     install the new timing chain set.
     
     Get the repair sleeve for the balancer.  The front oil seal will have 
     cut a groove in the balancer which prevents the new seal from, well, 
     sealing.  FelPro makes thin steel sleeves which press over the end of 
     the balancer and provide a smooth surface for the oil seal to ride on. 
     The sleeve may even be included in the timing chain gasket set.
     
     Reinstalling the front cover is a b*tch with the oil pan in place.  
     Best bet is to loosen the oil pan bolts.  The new front cover to oil 
     pan seal will be considerably thicker than the old compressed one and 
     getting it to push down enough to get the two alignment pins in the 
     block to fit into the holes in the front cover is hard.  Expect to 
     fight with it for a while.
     
     Be especially careful not to drop the balancer alignment key into the 
     oil pan.  This usually happens while pounding the balancer back on 
     with a fine adjustment hammer.
     
     Torque spec on that balancer bolt is 160 ft-lbs (oiled).  Have fun.  
     (My torque wrench only goes to 150, so that's what my balancer bolt is 
     torqued to...)
     
     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com
     
     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Jan 98 23:00:15 -0500
From: "padavano.joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Re: Pulling My Leg

     I remember seeing a 69 Cutlass with 68 front sheetmetal.  I've always 
     chalked it up to creative crash repair.  Actually, for that matter, I 
     used to own a 65 442 convert.  The car had been in an accident when I 
     got it and the front clip required replacement.  The only one I could 
     find at the time was a 64 (and unlike later years, 64 and 65 fenders 
     were different), so...
     
     I eventually _did_ find a 65 front end, by the way.
     
     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com
     
     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 23:21:27 EST
From: KS7RACING <KS7RACING@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Ignition

Samuel,

By far, I'd recommend MSD. I install electrical systems on race cars here in
Kansas City and I've never had an MSD system I installed have a single
problem. 

The manual they send with their components shows how an MSD system can be
fitted to almost any existing ignition system. It's as straightforward an
installation as you can get.


Best wishes,

Ken Snyder

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 23:12:44 EST
From: RPorter351 <RPorter351@aol.com>
Subject: 55 Olds Hard Starting

The car starts when cold immediatly.  After car is at operating temperature,
it is very difficult to start. Must pump accelerator several times and crank
extended time before car will re-start. New fuel pump, rebuilt carb.
(Rochester 4 brl) timing, points, new fuel lines stood off all points of
engine 1 1/2 inches to elim. vapor lock - Nothing seems to help.   I would
appreciate very much if anyone with a any further ideas on solving hard
starting 55 olds would reply.   Thank You, rporter351@aol   

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 23:25:56 EST
From: James244 <James244@aol.com>
Subject: unsubscribe

thanks

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Jan 98 15:41:12 -0500
From: "Padavano.Joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Re[2]: Panel controvery

Steve Dietrich noted:

I came in @ the tail end of this conversation but I'll add my 2cents.
GM probably stopped making the quarter panels due to the expense and either 
sold off the dies or scrapped them.  I believe that GM was required to keep 
producing parts for thier vehicles for a certain # of years after production 
of the cars was stopped.  After that they stop making them.

     I think I have to slightly disagree.  First, while I've heard others 
     make reference to automakers being "required to keep producing parts 
     for a certain number of years", I don't believe there is, in fact, 
     such a law.  I base this on my attempt to purchase new bucket seats 
     from Olds a number of years ago.  According to the parts manager, only 
     the current year seats and upholstery were available.
     
     The more likely scenario is that GM makes a quantity of parts each 
     year based on projected production quantities plus some percentage for 
     service parts.  For parts which are common across multiple model years 
     (ie, chassis parts), these will remain in production for a number of 
     years.  For parts which are model year specific (well, the way body 
     parts _used_ to be), when production for the model year ends, no 
     further parts are manufactured.  Think about it:  the costs of the 
     stamping presses, labor to run them, and facilities in which to house 
     them represent a considerable investment for an automaker.  It is 
     doubtful that any automaker would tie these assets up producing parts 
     for out-of-production automobiles when the equipment is required to 
     produce _this_ year's cars.  Frankly, I'm sure GM would rather sell 
     you a new car than the parts to fix your old one, however this makes 
     for very bad customer relations, so service parts are available.
     
     I'm sure that following the 1968 model year, the quarter panel dies 
     were sold for scrap and ultimately melted down into new dies.
     
The problem with the quality of the aftermarket panels is that they are made 
for more than one type of body style, the conv. qtrs. will also fit coupes. 
This keeps thier tooling costs to a minimum without limiting there market to 
just a single body style.  It's all about profits.

     Actually, I think it's more a case of the market wouldn't support the 
     price which a vendor would have to charge to make money reproducing 
     OEM-style quarter stampings.  The size and cost of the dies and the 
     press probably go up considerably for a full quarter panel vs the 
     partial panels currently being sold.  In addition, the tolerances of 
     the stamped parts and the amount of springback following stamping are 
     obviously effected by the differences in the dies.  I'd be surprised 
     if the vendor for the 68/69 panels consciously tried to split the 
     difference between the coupe and convert stampings.  More likely, they 
     attempted to replicate the coupe panels (due to the larger potential 
     market) and were pleasantly surprised to find that they could be made 
     to work on the converts.
     
Year One class's their steel body parts and explaines what would be required 
to install them and warns of the costs required to make the panels fit.

     Yes, I've always been impressed by that (though, frankly, I doubt that 
     I have a real appreciation for the differences in fit between a "5" 
     panel and a "3" panel).  If I have one criticism of Brothers, it is 
     the fact that they did not do this. 
     
I think the problems associated with the aftermarket products are here to stay 
and that's the way it's going to be when restoring these cars.
     
     True statement.  At least the repro fenders, bad as they may be, are 
     light years better than starting with a flat piece of sheet metal!  
     The sad reality, however, is that the Olds restoration market will 
     never justify the investments by suppliers of, say, the Camaro 
     restoration market.
     
     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com
     
     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

     

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 23:41:56 -0500
From: Don Sowers <dstaxpro@lex.infi.net>
Subject: Re: Oh yes still reading {laughing}MUD FIGHTS

CRuper1 wrote:

> Hot Rod did this type of conversion on a Datsun (from what I remember).  Just
> can't remember all the details involved.  It's been a few years, but they put a Chevy 350 in it for some kicks.

I've heard of this being done for the 240/260/280 Datsuns and a place
down in Texas does the same for Jaguars.  I don't know if there is
enough room in a Mazda or not.  I would think a turbo Buick V6 would fit
pretty well though and would not upset the weight distribution while
running pretty strong (based on what I've sen on this list from people
discussing this engine).  Reason I thought of the Olds 350 was I may
wind up with one that runs and doesn't cost me anything extra.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 23:50:24 EST
From: KS7RACING <KS7RACING@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Non-Olds Brakes Question

I can second the info about those pesky rear disc brakes. My wife owns an 85
RX-7 and I have one of those cheap piston tools. It is almost worthless, I
wound up borrowing a good tool from an SCCA friend, and the job was done in no
time.

Another thing to be sure to check is how the recesses in the front of the
piston are oriented when you have it fully compressed/rotated in. On the RX-7,
it's the difference between cussing the brakes for an hour (or more), trying
to figure out why they won't fit and having the job done in less time than a
standard rear drum setup.

Best Wishes,

Ken Snyder

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 00:13:22 EST
From: KS7RACING <KS7RACING@aol.com>
Subject: Re: A-Body Disk Brakes

Ladies and Gents,

While we're on the subject of A-Body disc brakes, let me ask a question that I
hope hasn't been grilled over too much recently. I would like to know if
anyone has ever done a comparison between the 70-72 disc brake spindles and
the 73-77 ones. I want to use the 73-77 ones on my 71 Cutlass 'S' circle track
car, since they are a lot more prevalent in the bone yards. What I need to
know is the height from the lower ball joint mount to the spindle centerline,
the distance between the lower and upper ball joint mounts, the distance from
the ball joint mounts centerline to where the wheel mounts on the disc rotor,
and finally (!) the length of the steering arm from that ball joint centerline
to where they mount to the tie rod end for each type of spindle.

I figure that if they are strong enough to support a 3500 lb + street car,
they will be fine for a 3000 lb stock car.

Thanks in advance for any assistance.

Ken Snyder

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 00:26:22 -0500
From: "Jonathan Eaton" <je@outraged.com>
Subject: Some more mechanical questions.

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Dear all with an Olds 98 around the year of 1987; (And those with an =
'84-88 in parts in your garage.) :)

    I'm having a problem with the power steering in the 1987. When the =
car is cold and I haven't driven it for a while, I find myself without =
power steering until it decides to kick in down the road. (Which always =
makes left hand turns exciting.) is this a common occurrence in this =
model of car? How can I fix it? What is it?

    The 1984 Has a problem that the blower fan in the heater wouldn't =
shut off. Then when it got cold.. It shut off completely and wouldn't =
turn back on. It must be the ground right? And my last question.. in the =
chiltons it says that I need a special tool to put the new rear-main =
bearing seal (Which I know is a common leak in the 302 V-8's).. What =
tool are they talking about?


Jonathan R. Eaton
je@outraged.com

1984 Delta 88
1987 98 Grande SE
1997 Aurora

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#800080 size=3D4>Dear all with an Olds 98 <FONT=20
color=3D#800080>around </FONT>the year of 1987; (And those with an =
'84-88 in parts=20
in your garage.) :)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#800080 size=3D4></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#800080 size=3D4>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I'm having a =
problem with the=20
power steering in the 1987. When the car is cold and I haven't driven it =
for a=20
while, I find myself without power steering until it decides to kick in =
down the=20
road. (Which always makes left hand turns exciting.) is this a common =
<FONT=20
color=3D#800080>occurrence </FONT>in this model of car? How can I fix =
it? What is=20
it?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#800080 size=3D4></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#800080 size=3D4>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The 1984 Has a =
problem that=20
the blower fan in the heater wouldn't shut off. Then when it got cold.. =
It shut=20
off completely and wouldn't turn back on. It must be the ground right? =
And my=20
last question.. in the chiltons it says that I need a special tool to =
put the=20
new rear-main bearing seal (Which I know is a common leak in the 302 =
V-8's)..=20
What tool are they talking about?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#800080 size=3D4></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#800080 size=3D4>Jonathan R. Eaton<BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:je@outraged.com">je@outraged.com</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#800080 size=3D4></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#800080 size=3D4>1984 Delta 88</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#800080 size=3D4>1987 98 Grande SE</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#800080 size=3D4>1997 =
Aurora</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 00:38:48 EST
From: W MACHINES <WMACHINES@aol.com>
Subject: Re: manufacturer of panels

In a message dated 98-01-08 20:26:54 EST, you write:

<< I read at one time (Bryceman's Oldmobile FAQ I believe) that New Center
 Stamping in Detroit produces the panels.  Their phone number was reported as
 (810)-239-9510.>
 
 
 I live outside Detroit so I called that number and it has changed to:
 
 New Center Stamping  - (313) 872-1722
 Hours:  M-F 7:30am - 4:00pm est
 
 Hopefully they still sell panels!
 
 RC Hellebuyck
 1971 4-4-2 covt. - see it at:
 1995 Achieva S >>
They are currently stamping out the 70-72 Chevelle quarters but not the OLDS.

New Center Stamping has the orig quarter dies.  I inquired about the use of 
them or buying them.  They told me that the dies are in pretty bad shape
and would cost alot to retool.  So for now, no quarters are going to be
stamped.

I did talk to GM restoration about the panels and they said they still own the
dies, but they are at the New Center.  GM also said they were looking for
somebody
to revamp the dies.  In other words, invest the money to refurbish the dies so
that
they could produce the 70-72 hardtop GM quarters.

W MACHINES (Mark Prince)
1972 442 W-30 and I also live in Detroit.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 00:45:44 -0500
From: Trevor Lee <lee@mergetel.com>
Subject: Re: A-Body Disk Brakes

> Front disc brakes did not become standard on GM A bodies until 1973.

Geez, can you IMAGINE the '73-'77 A-bodies with DRUMS???  I know from an
experience I had in my '76 Monte Carlo that even the front discs can leave
something to be desired if not right up to snuff (let's just say I was
raci...umm..."driving along with" another car :)  and came flying over a
hill at about 90mph and discovered an elderly couple in a late model Ford
Tempo not even breaking the 50mph speed limit.  A downhill 40mph decrease -
I don't think my butt saw the seat for another 10 seconds or so while I was
busy trying to pull the steering wheel off :)
- --
Trevor Lee (aka Screech), Owner - TL Tech
Rat-Powered '76 Cutlass Supreme Brougham
http://www.mergetel.com/~lee/cutlass/
mailto:lee@mergetel.com
Welland, Ontario, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 23:57:34 -0600
From: senator@itis.com (Robert F. Newbegin Jr.)
Subject: Re: degreasing; WAS: bob's 350 ID

I appreciate the comments and suggestions.  I guess that I was mostly
concerned with whether or not this would damage my engine or any of the
aftermarket stuff inside of it.  Also, I'd have to replace all my grease
fittings if I had it steam cleaned too, huh?

Bob
'78 Cutlass

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 01:29:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: head prices???

>i was talking to a guy who has a set of #7 heads.  they have valves, and
>springs on them.  they came off a 71 350.  he told me that he would sell them
>for about a buck and a half($150).  i was just wondering if this is a good
>price.  even if they need valve work i can do all it for free.  does anyone
>have any suggestions about buying a set of heads?  would these do a 403 any
>good?  or would they blow the bottom out the motor?  also, does a lead

"Heads don't blow out bottom ends; _People_ blow out bottom ends..." [new
bumper sticker]

They would raise your 403's compression by about a point to a point and a
half; that would be good. I'd only worry about your bottom end if you're
getting that motor over 5000rpm (which is what the #6 heads will allow you
to do) and it's a completely stock and unrebuilt shortblock.

$150 is not a bad price for a pair of heads not needing rebuilding; it's not
a great price for a set that does need rebuilding. If you have access to
machine-shop services, you may as well install the 2.00" intakes from your
403's #4A heads to gain some intake flow on the #7's, so there's not a lot
of incentive for you to spring the extra $$$ for ready-to-run heads. You
could probably find core heads for half what these are going for, but also
figure in the time you'll spend looking...

>addative do anything more than just harden the valve seats?

The lead additive is in *place* of hardened valve seats; it doesn't harden
them. The wisdom that this list seems to have developed on this question is
that unless you are towing or racing, hardened valve seats are nice, but not
absolutely necessary. But, if you've got the machine shop at your disposal,
and it would simply be a matter of your labor and the materials, then by all
means add the hardened seats (which the '71's #7's didn't come with).
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 01:29:16 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: Comfortron Heater blues??

>So, here I am, enjoying my 72 Olds 98 (My first pre-75 Olds ever), and I
>get to winter, -30 Celcius, and I wanna put this heater to work, and of
>course, my car wants to do a lot of the decision making for me (Sorry
>guys, 1972 American technology just doesn't cut it for accurately
>controling car temperatures..)
>
>So, I've developed a few questions I'd like to throw out:::
>
>1)  When I place the 'adjuster' on AUTO-HI, should not the fan BLOW ON
>HIGH REGARDLESS?

No, in fact it won't; the system is designed to delay operation until the
coolant temperature is up to 120' (I don't know why this is so; maybe the
automatic system wouldn't be able to function if the heater core is not in
fact heating the air passing through it?). I've got the same "problem" in my
'69 Toro with Comfortron. The exact cut-in temp for the '72 may be different.

The thermostatic switch that measures the coolant is located in the heater
valve housing on the engine. On my Toro, the problem is worsened, due to the
fact that the proper Comfortron-specific heater control valve has been
replaced by a standard heater control valve (they're not available new
anymore; details to follow), and the sensor is currently hose-clamped to the
side of it, so it doesn't see 120' until the coolant is in fact much warmer.

You might see if a similar kludge has been instituted on your engine in
place of the proper setup, or if the sensor is not responding properly to
the coolant temperature.

>2)  I see above the glovebox what looks like a thermostat-air entry,
>currently the reaction-time for the thermostat is way too slow (works on
>long trips not too bad, but no good for short trips)..  Can I increase
>the airflow through this to make it more timely??

I don't think it's the airflow through the in-car temperature sensor; if
anything, if it's seeing cold air, it would cause the system to kick in
*sooner*, not later.

>3)  Currently to force the fan to run, I have to leave it on defrost... 

That's what I have to do. Actually, I can fool the system into working on
the HI and LO settings by putting it on DEFROST (which overrides all
automatic controls; helpful for diagnosing the system), and then switching
it to HI or LO. This seems to fool the controller into thinking the engine
is warm enough to begin operation.

>If I ran my own switch to feed the fan power, and moved the selector
>between  bi-level , auto and defrost, would I get heat, or just a fan
>blowing air into a bunch of closed-off vents??

The best work-around would simply be to complete the vacuum circuit that
passes through the temperature sensor in the heater control valve; that way,
the controller would be tricked into thinking that the engine was always
warm enough for itself to kick in. Plus, you wouldn't have to hack up any
wires; it's a completely reversible operation.

>4)  Has anyone ever made any relatively easy mods to this heater to make
>it work better, the Heat is good but the lack-of-me-controlling the heat
>just doesn't work!

I'll let you know how my new Comfortron-specific heater control valve that I
got from Fusick's works out. They have a supply of them, as do a few other
places. If your system response is sluggish, but the system does work after
everything is well warmed up, I'd look and see if something is amiss with
your heater control valve, the sensor in it, or the vacuum lines to and from it.

Good luck, and let us know how it turns out!
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 01:29:27 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: 68 Cultass "S" heater?

>The sage of the electrical shorts is getting closer to a conclusion. One of
>the problems left is the blower motor will not turn off. I've got all speeds,
>but when I move the lever all the way to the left, it don't turn off. I've had
>more than one person tell me that on some of the older models the fan ran all
>the time. That don't sound right. This fan motor should turn off shouldn't it?

Yes, I believe it should turn off. There should be a switch on the heater
control slider that activates the fan at all settings besides "OFF". The way
this switch is triggered looks a little odd; yours might be stuck in the
closed position, feeding power to your blower motor at all times. This
switch is usually screwed onto the top of the heater controls, so it should
be a replaceable item. The bad part about this is removing the heater
controls to get at it... :(

>What exactly does the relay on passenger side fender relay control. ( 68 w
>A/C)

That's the A/C hold-in relay; once you engage the compressor clutch, it
stays engaged until you turn off the car, to prevent the windows from
fogging if you should switch from A/C to Heat or Defrost (these guys thought
of everything, didn't they?). If this went bad, your A/C clutch wouldn't engage.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 01:29:23 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: She Still Has Not Started! ('cause I'm lazy)

>Well, I had not seriously considered that possibility. I am long overdue for
>the chain swap. I actually aborted a swap attempt when I could not move the
>center bolt on the crank pulley! Anyone care to share a method of getting that
>sucker off w/o using an impact wrench? There are three holes next to each

A method I've used for removing the "Big Nut" on the front spindle of my
Toro might work here. get the breaker bar, socket and short extension on the
front crank bolt, and position the handle slightly below horizontal, toward
the driver's side. Now, use a small floor jack, and place the jack pad at
the very end of that handle. You might have to drop the starter and place
something in one of the large flexplate holes to prevent the engine from
turning over. Now, when you begin to pump up the jack, it's going to press
up on the end of the handle, which will try to raise the car; the only link,
though, from the jack to the car is the crank snout bolt. Can you visualize
this setup? Perhaps a crude ASCII picture will illustrate it better:

 O======          <--- Breaker bar
        U      /
        \\    /
         \\_ /    <--- Rolling floor jack
         /   \
       O------O

>other in the side of the counter weight or whatever is used as a harm bal on
>cars w/o the harm bal. Are these for insertion of a lever to stabilize the
>thing while heaving on the breaker bar?

No, those holes are drilled there to balance the balancer; you might damage
the rubber insert if you tried to prevent the engine from turning by holding
the outer ring of the balancer stationary while wailing on that crank bolt.

>At any rate that means that if dwell is OK, then play with the timing a
>little. I am now some 15- 17 degrees before TDC and during earlier timing-
>fiddlings did notice that timing did affect starting, and found (at that time)
>a happy medium between starting and pinging.

That's a lot of advance to be asking a points-type ignition to be starting
with; try backing down to 6' and see if that helps. I'm impressed that you
can run so much advance without pinging!

>their windows because of the stink---I just do not recommend it!). A friend
>suggested using a gasoline IV directly to the carb to see if it is bad gas.
>I do not really know if that is such a hot idea.

As long as the fuel line is not rubbing on anything, is well-secured, and
the old pump is in fact not pumping or disabled (or its output is directed
to a bucket), it's not a problem. Just keep the temporary fuel source above
the level of the carburetor.

>
>On a related note - how would I be able to tell if someone put sugar in
>my gas >tank (not something I want to think about)? Would the gas taste
>(ugh) sweet?

We don't want a note from the coroner saying that you tried to find this out...

Is sugar even soluble in gasoline?

>- ->That's the heat riser.  It is supposed to divert the exhaust under the
>carburator during warm-up to make the fuel burn easier.
>
>So the spring pulls on the block which levers open/closed a valve in the exh
>manifold? Can those things be acquired through parts stores/catalogues/repro?

Why, is yours stuck? I've had luck freeing them up by squirting penetrating
oil on the shaft as it enters the exhaust manifold (on the side of the
spring), and tapping gently on the end of the shaft, until it begins to free
up. You might have to be patient, but it might be able to loosen up. You
could also remove the manifold and work at it from the inside.

To answer your question, though, there is a service procedure for these
outlined in all the shop manuals I've seen, which involves a service
replacement. I don't know if the service parts for this are available any more.

>Great. More stuff to avoid doing.

What, you were running out? ;)
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 01:29:29 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: A-Body Disk Brakes

>This summer I switched from drums to disk brakes on my 68 442 conv.  I
>considered purchasing a kit from PST but felt the price was too
>expensive.  I purchased a set of used spindles, calipers and rotors from
>a 69 cutlass.  The only thing salvagable in this set were the spindles.
>I purchased all the parts at DAPS.  The counter person was very helpful
>in obtaining the necessary parts.  I now have replaced the total system,
>front and rear brakes, excluding the proportioning valve and the master
>cylinder which I will replace when the body and the frame meet, for
>around $400.00.  Not a bad deal for a totally new system.  This of
 [snip]

Though my SX was originally equipped with discs, I too replaced everything
including the spindles with parts from a '72 VC. In fact, the only things I
think I didn't buy new were the spindles, rotors and metering valves;
everything else, including the hardware and drums for the rear, plus all new
brake lines (hard and soft) didn't cost more than $450, so there are cheaper
alternatives to the PST kits, and there won't be any more labor than
installing their kit if you buy all the parts separately.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 22:30:30 -0500
From: Lloyd Ferguson <ferguson@1stnetusa.com>
Subject: Re: Comfortron Heater blues??

>So, here I am, enjoying my 72 Olds 98 (My first pre-75 Olds ever), and I
>get to winter, -30 Celcius, and I wanna put this heater to work, and of
>course, my car wants to do a lot of the decision making for me (Sorry
>guys, 1972 American technology just doesn't cut it for accurately
>controling car temperatures..)
>
>So, I've developed a few questions I'd like to throw out:::
>
>1)  When I place the 'adjuster' on AUTO-HI, should not the fan BLOW ON
>HIGH REGARDLESS?
>
>2)  I see above the glovebox what looks like a thermostat-air entry,
>currently the reaction-time for the thermostat is way too slow (works on
>long trips not too bad, but no good for short trips)..  Can I increase
>the airflow through this to make it more timely??
>
>3)  Currently to force the fan to run, I have to leave it on defrost...
>If I ran my own switch to feed the fan power, and moved the selector
>between  bi-level , auto and defrost, would I get heat, or just a fan
>blowing air into a bunch of closed-off vents??
>
>4)  Has anyone ever made any relatively easy mods to this heater to make
>it work better, the Heat is good but the lack-of-me-controlling the heat
>just doesn't work!
>
>ANY/ALL Comments Please...
>
>
>
>Eric

I had a Pontiac with the Comfortron when I lived in Canada and it worked
flawlessly most of the time (only had a few small problems which were easy
to fix).

Unlike a regular AC/heating system you can't get the Comfortron to give you
a blast of real cold or real hot air to change the temperature in a hurry,
it is designed to gradually regulate the temperature change which is
probably most suitable in the Southern States where you are only trying to
regulate 30-40 degrees either way from 70F.

Basically the system compares the interior temperature of the car to the
temperature on the control dial and uses the difference to move a shaft in
the controller.  When there is a big difference the fan is on high and the
mix door is either set for full cold or full hot depending on the directoin
of the difference. As they temperatures get closer the shaft moves along
and changes the fan speed and the mix door positions so that when they are
equal the fan is running at it's lowest speed.

From your description it sounds as if you have electrical and/pr vacumn
problems.  If you get a service manual it explains the testing of the
system.

Bottom line is I don't think there is much you can do to change the system
operation but if it is working properly it is not all that bad.

If you need any help just ask .


Lloyd Ferguson
Glendale, California
ferguson@1stnetusa.com

1969 Cutlass Convertible
1984 Buick Riviera

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 23:02:28 -0800
From: Erik <erikreb@netbridge.net>
Subject: holley installation question

Hi,
 
I successfully got my Intake Manifold back on.  I have hooked everything
back up except for my holley 4-barrell carb.  Am I supposed to torque
the nuts down on my carb?   I have the Edelbrock Performer on my 350.
Thanks,
 
Erik B.
'72 Cutlass S

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 06:19:03 -0500
From: Mark Cornea <mcornea@ford.com>
Subject: Re: Motor City Rockets contact

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- --------------BC54135A3C615A87B44ADA2B
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loris wrote:

> Who is a contact for the Motor City Rockets chapter here in Michigan?
> The address I have for MCR is in Shelby Township (my back yard
> practically).  I sent a letter there but received no reply.  Is it still
> in existence?  It is listed as and Olds organization on the Bryceman
> page but I don't know if it is "alive".
>
> -Loris
> 1968 Cutlass 'S' convertible
> 1972 Cutlass Supreme convertible


    Loris,

                Try this phone number (810) 739-8255. Walt should be able
to help you out.


- --------------BC54135A3C615A87B44ADA2B
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       ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
          Mark Cornea (Dr Decal) `70 W30 stick ~ Red (of course)

                              <mailto:drdecal442@aol.com> 
                              <mailto:mcornea@gw.ford.com>

            Visit <http://members.aol.com/drdecal442/mcr.html>

            OCA# 4903 
       	    OPC# 14
       ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

- --------------BC54135A3C615A87B44ADA2B--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Jan 98 07:39:19 -0500
From: brad.nicholson@ssa.gov
Subject: RE: Motor City Rockets (OCA Info )

Here is what the Olds Club of America has for their address

Motor City Rockets
45744 Cumberland, Shelby Twp., MI 48317 

Just give them a little time to reply as we're all volunteers here and do 
it in our spare time.

If anyone needs to find a local chapter of oca, go to the following URL:
http://www.erols.com/brad442/oca
We should have a URL by Feb, so I don't have to host it w/ just 1MB of 
space. Hope this helped
 ---
| | | Brad Nicholson (OCA's Web Guy)
| | | 1987 442 W-42
|/|\| 1994 Eighty Eight LSS
| | | Oldsmobile Club of America #18984
 ---  Oldsmobile Centennial Club - Newest Chapter of OCA
(W) brad.nicholson@ssa.gov   (H) brad442@erols.com
Personal Web Page - http://www.erols/com/brad442
OCC Web Page - http://www.erols.com/brad442/occ
OCA Web Page - http://www.erols.com/brad442/oca

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 08:41:59 -0500
From: tchurchill@draper.com (Timothy A. Churchill)
Subject: Re: A-Body Disk Brakes

>> tgstoner@umich.edu wrote:
> > 
> > > I believe that front disk brakes also became standard on all of the '68
> > > A-bodied Oldsmobiles, except possibly for the budget-priced F-85.
> > 
> > To which Greg Beaulieu   <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca> replied:
> > 
> > > Nope. I don't think they became standard until '72 or so. Both my '68 and
> > > my pal Don's '68 W-30 have front drums (ugh).
> 
> 
> As I remember my 69 S conv didn't stop too well back when I was driving
> it all the time.  It would run great but had a terrible stopping
> distance.  This I have always attributed to drum brakes front and rear.
> I don't think it had disc brakes, so I don't think they were standard in
> 69 on the S models.  I'll have to double check this though.
> 

FWIW, my '69 M*l*b* (aka "Barbie") convt. had front drums.  *But*, it was --
and is, as the guy I sold it to 9 yrs ago still has it -- a 6 cylinder.

P'haps being a cheaper (250CID) model, they gave it 4 way drums.  Although I'd
imagine that by '72 all GMs, incl;uding the 6's, got front disks.

My '67 Catalina had 4-way drums, too.  PS, A/C, but no PB.  Crank wing windows,
too.  I know it wasn't an Olds, but it was my first car.  I *still* have
dreams from time to time that I find it in a junque yard and resurrect the 
beast.  Strange, I know :) -- It DID have a 400 H.O. outta a '70 GTO though,
so mebbe it's not so strange...

BTW, I hope you folks north of the border get your power back soon.  Boston
Edison sent something like 90 crews to help you with the damage from
that 'orrible ice storm you've had/are having....



Tim (Just Rain for the Past 6 Days in Boston) Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, a.k.a. 'Der KinderWagen'
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 08:50:14 -0500
From: "Mike Coccagna" <mike.coccagna@envirosense.com>
Subject: Garage Queen problem - 93 SCX

Hi Folks.

Not to drive you away from the body panel discussion, but I was wondering if
you could point me in the correct direction towards diagnosis of a problem I
developed on my '93 SCX.

Earlier this week, I decided to start my SCX and let it idle for a few
minutes to keep the battery charged.  It hadn't seen the road since early
December, and not driven regularly since October...  It started fine, idled
for a few minutes, and I shut it off.  Ran like it normally does.

Well, my wife doesn't necessarily agree with my leaving the car sit when it
rains or during the winter months (don't want any salt on it, and it has
performance tires (read not good in anything but dry) on it).  She began
pestering me to drive it so.....  I figured I'd drive it today to work.
Well, I hopped in, put the key in, turned it...... and not a sound came from
the starter.  Hmmm....  Dead battery?  Well, the lights inside were bright,
and the wipers worked to clear the morning dew.  I grabbed the jumper
cables, pulled the 442 up, hooked them together, and....  nothing.

I then decided to spend a few minutes trying to narrow down the problem.
Here's what I've tried.  Maybe it'll be a clue to somebody...  I
disconnected the 442, turned on the headlights on the SCX and tried again -
lights stayed bright and silence.  The fuel pump run when I turn the key, so
there's plenty of juice.  I've tried to start it with the lights on, dome
light, heater fan on high, and radio on - all keep working when the key is
turned.  Battery is 1 year new (and clean).  I'm leaning towards a problem
with the starter...  The car has a little oxidation problem on the aluminum
pieces under the hood, so I plan on cleaning the cables (and connectors)
going to the starter before digging in a little further.  Starter is in the
front of the engine, so it's easily accessible.  I remember my dad rapping
on the starter in his D88 with a hammer a few times when I was younger when
he had problems starting it and the battery is good and still failing --
does this ever work?

The car has 32,000 miles on it, and I've never had a problem with a starter
before - is this normal for cars that sit a lot?  Could there be something
in the starter that I could open it, clean it, and re-install it to see if
it works?  I really don't want to pay someone to fix it, or for a new part,
if I don't have to.

I'm on the digest, so if you could cc: me at mike.coccagna@envirosense.com
with any replies, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for the help in advance,

Mike
'91 W40+ 442
'93 W41 SCX (no workie)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 08:58:26 EST
From: Napyellow <Napyellow@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Garage Queen problem - 93 SCX

The Same thing happened to my '92 SCX, for me it turned out to be the
computer, and it happened fast too, i started then let it warm up, drove it
for about 30 miles got to my destination shut it off, about 15 min later went
to start it Nothing, everything worked but it didn't start.

to date my car has 106,563 miles on itand has had:
4 computers replaced
3 altenaters
1 water pump 

Chuck stern (Napyellow@aol.com)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:16:51 EST
From: Oldsparts <Oldsparts@aol.com>
Subject: Re:  oldsmobile-digest V1 #1048

who

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:55:57 EST
From: Oldsparts <Oldsparts@aol.com>
Subject: Re:  oldsmobile-digest V1 #1048

         Jim Chermack wrote:
>>We have contacted New Center Stamping and found that they have the

original dies for alot of the 60's and 70's GM cars. They are the original

producer of these parts. We looked into getting the dies so we could repro

the correct panels and we were informed by their Vice President that the

reason they are no longer produced is that the dies are wore out, and the

have had many problems with quality control. GM told them then, to stop

producing them. Just to give everyone some idea of the cost of fixing these

cast iron dies it's in the $30,000-$50,000 area. They also would have a

setup fee of anywhere from $9,000.00 to $20,000 depending on what part they

were setting up and how many were to be run. They do not sell to the public

either. <<



Thanks Jim!  The figures you recieved were really pretty soft compared to what
we were told several years ago by the same outfit.  You must be one hell of a
negotiater.

Did you inquire about minimum runs?  We wanted to re-do the 70-2 fenders but
the rt hand die is broken and we were qouted $380,000 to make a new die!
Also, they would not run less than 2000 pieces of each part at about $330 a
piece. 
 
The aftermarket quarters are made in such a way that they can be stacked
together like spoons.  This results in quite a space savings when shipping
them halfway around the world.  We have, I think, rather large facilities for
what we do.  No way could I store 4000 quarters (or fenders) conveniently.
Imagine the # of trucks and the transpotation charges involved in getting the
product from the stamping plant to our facility!

The economies of scale at work here simply do not apply to the restoration
market the same way they do to GM-New Centers  only customer.

Thanks for answering these questions Jim.  I was out of town most of yesterday
and didn't have a chance to respond in a timely manner. 

Sincecely For Oldsmobiles, 
Steve Kenny
Brothers Automotive Products
800-442-PART 
www.oldsparts.com 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:06:24 -0600
From: Scott.Wheeler@pinnacle-brands.com
Subject: A/C Relay question for Dr. Barry!

O.K. Dr Barry,

On a related note, my 68 442 is an A/C car that has been liberated from
it's compressor, I plan to buy a new compressor and redo the system
eventually but, until then I only want to use the heater the few days
needed down here in Dallas. My question is related to the A/C relayfrom
this e-mail, is it necessary if the A/C compressor is not currently being
used? Is anything else supposed to be connected to it (any heater
connections?)? If not I'll just pull it until I can fork out the green for
an A/C redo.

Let me know!

Thanx!

Scott Wheeler
68442 Conv
Dallas


>What exactly does the relay on passenger side fender relay control. ( 68 w
>A/C)
That's the A/C hold-in relay; once you engage the compressor clutch, it
stays engaged until you turn off the car, to prevent the windows from
fogging if you should switch from A/C to Heat or Defrost (these guys
thought
of everything, didn't they?). If this went bad, your A/C clutch wouldn't
engage.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 21:11:32 -0500
From: tonwald@eta.k12.mn.us (Tony Waldner)
Subject: 9 inchers

Greetings all --

January is always a slow month for me so it is always a great month, along
with February to get the Cutlass Salon ready for another season of drag
racing. The boats also get a once-over too!

The 455 ran strong all season in the Salon, and the turbo 350 trans worked
flawlessly. Both were perfect inside when pulled down for inspection. My
problem is the rear end.  I have put 3 rear ends in this car since I
started drag racing it.  All 3 came out of Monte Carlo SS' and all were
3.73's with a Raceway Spool.

I am twisting the pinion shafts out of these. The last rear end showed a slight
twist and stress marks right by the crush-sleeve.  I figure one more pass
and it would have snaped off.

A buddy "loaned" me a 12-bolt 4.10 rear out of his '70 Chevelle and it did
bolt in, but the pinion nose angle was wrong and it had a nasty vibration
in it about mid-track. The car ran slower too because I got off of the
throttle.

My question is this......Does anyone make a 9-inch Ford rear end housing
that will bolt into a G-body?  Everyone knows that these rear ends are
bullet proof and I am tired of this being the weak link in my drive train.
I have two 3.50 ratio 3rd members sitting around, so a housing would be
perfect!

Any input on this would be great!

Thanks....

Tony

70 442 W-30
70 Toro GT W-34
65 Jetstar 88 w/4-speed
85 Cutlass Salon 455 Drag Racer
92 Seville STS

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:16:05 -0600
From: Scott.Wheeler@pinnacle-brands.com
Subject: TH 400 deal

The same dude that has the modified SSIII (chrome & 10" wide) also has a
built TH400 with a TCI 2400/flash 3000 converter for sale for $400

e-mail me directly & I'll pass it on.

Scott Wheeler
68 442 Conv
Dallas

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:15:09 -0600
From: "Green, Andrew" <acg@datalogics.com>
Subject: Re: Comfortron Heater blues??

> 2) I see above the glovebox what looks like a 
> thermostat-air entry, currently the reaction-time 
> for the thermostat is way too slow (works on long
> trips not too bad, but no good for short trips)..
> Can I increase the airflow through this to make 
> it more timely??

Sure... but is there any chance you're missing some
pieces? My P*ntiac uses a little "sniffer" setup that
uses a vacuum source to draw interior air over the
temperature sensor; i.e. instead of just hanging the
sensor in the interior air, it _pulls_ the air over
it for a better reading. The sensor sits under a small
grille in the dash; behind it is a little flexy hose
leading to a vacuum line (somewhere... haven't taken
it apart) that sets up a breeze of incoming air for
the sensor to measure. Maybe yours had the setup but
lost its vacuum source, or if not you could rig one 
up somehow...? I can tell you that it _does_ get
gunked up with airborne crud over time and could a
use a cleaning every few years...
- --
Andrew C. Green             (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.            email: acg@datalogics.com
101 N. Wacker, Ste. 1800    http://www.datalogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301     Fax: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 08:23:23 -0700
From: Tom Starkey <tstarkey@uswest.net>
Subject: Re: She Still Has Not Started! ('cause I'm lazy)

I haven't followed this problem you're having all the way through, but I
'll add my experience. Had a car of about the same year as yours, drove
it home from work, shut it off, next morning wouldn't start. The engine
would crank just fine, just wouldn't start. Over time I started checking
everything I could think of, fuel (filter, pump), air and spark. Turned
out to be a broken cam shaft.

I'll always remember that because of all the work I put in to find the
problem and because it just seems like a camshaft would break while your
driving. I'm assuming it probably broke in the morning when I tried to
start it.

Hope your problem isn't as bad! Good Luck!

Tom Starkey - '68 Cutlass Supreme

KarlAune wrote:
> 
> I have not got much done because the weather turned nasty. I did purchase
> Sears' "Engine Analyser", for checking dwell, amps, volts, alt. integrity,
> etc..... I'll let y'all know what I think of it when I finally use it. It has
> been so wet the last several days that I would probably short everything out!
> 
> Graham Stewart of Toronto, Canada (graham.stewart@utoronto.ca) suggested;
> 
> ->   After lots of fiddling and hassle some kind souls on the lists suggested
> the timing chain [might be] the culprit.
> 
> Well, I had not seriously considered that possibility. I am long overdue for
> the chain swap. I actually aborted a swap attempt when I could not move the
> center bolt on the crank pulley! Anyone care to share a method of getting that
> sucker off w/o using an impact wrench? There are three holes next to each
> other in the side of the counter weight or whatever is used as a harm bal on
> cars w/o the harm bal. Are these for insertion of a lever to stabilize the
> thing while heaving on the breaker bar?
> 
> At any rate that means that if dwell is OK, then play with the timing a
> little. I am now some 15- 17 degrees before TDC and during earlier timing-
> fiddlings did notice that timing did affect starting, and found (at that time)
> a happy medium between starting and pinging.
> 
> Someone suggested it might be bad gas. That is something that I have been
> afraid to think about. Especially because I been there and the car tried to do
> that (standing on the accellerator and the brake pedal at the same time just
> to keep the engine from quotting at the stop light while other drivers roll up
> their windows because of the stink---I just do not recommend it!). A friend
> suggested using a gasoline IV directly to the carb to see if it is bad gas. I
> do not really know if that is such a hot idea.
> 
> On a related note - how would I be able to tell if someone put sugar in my gas
> tank (not something I want to think about)? Would the gas taste (ugh) sweet?
> 
> >BTW There is a bimetallic-type coil spring and large pivoting block near the
> >bottom of my driver's side exhaust manifold.
> 
> ->That's the heat riser.  It is supposed to divert the exhaust under the
> carburator during warm-up to make the fuel burn easier.
> 
> So the spring pulls on the block which levers open/closed a valve in the exh
> manifold? Can those things be acquired through parts stores/catalogues/repro?
> 
> Great. More stuff to avoid doing.
> 
> Happy Oldsmobiling
> 
> Karl Aune and Soylent Ocean Mist
> 1965 Dynamic 88 Celebrity Sedan
>         (Anemic)
> Members OCA & IVOC

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Jan 98 10:42:38 -0500
From: "Padavano.Joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Re[2]: She Still Has Not Started! ('cause I'm lazy)

     Karl,
     
     After I wrote my earlier post on replacing the timing chain, I thought 
     I would comment on the timing chain failure mode.  I had this happen 
     to me on a 70 Supreme with a 350.  I was driving along at a slow speed 
     in a residential area and the car just stopped running.  It would 
     crank, and there was spark and fuel, but it would not even pop or 
     backfire.  I finally threw a timing light on the engine while cranking 
     it, and lo and behold, the timing mark was about 90 degrees off!  
     Needless to say, after tearing apart the front of the motor, I found 
     the teeth of the nylon cam gear worn to nubs.  Replaced that puppy 
     with a metal gear as part of the new timing set.  After getting it 
     buttoned back up, I ran a compression test and was relieved to find 
     that apparently the valves and pistons had not kissed (at least, not 
     enough to matter).  The motor fired right up. 
     
     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com
     
     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

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Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 10:05:48 -0600
From: Shang <shang@wans.net>
Subject: Re: A-Body Disk Brakes

Disc brakes became standard in '73 - not '72. I have had 3 '72 A-bodies,
all with 4-wheel drum brakes. They were standard on all hi-perf models
(442, SS, GS1, GTO) in '70.

Stephen Hoover
Dallas, Texas
'70 Cutlass "S"

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Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:06:39 EST
From: MktgMan1 <MktgMan1@aol.com>
Subject: Re:  Garage Queen problem - 93 SCX

IMHO,  try the hammer first. I've had cars from showcars to beaters do the
same thing. They develop dead or "flat" spots internally and a small rap will
move the armature slightly. But this is short term fix...do you want to keep
doing this? Most starters cannot be rebuilt and even when they are, the cost
and time isn't worth buying a rebuilt from a good supplier like NAPA. Of
course if you plan on keeping this OEM, go with a factory original.

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Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 08:11:28 -0800
From: Tom Lentz <tlentz@ior.com>
Subject: Re: 9 inchers

Yeah, Currie and a few other places make 9" rear housings for the G-body.  I've
seen their ads in the back of most car magazines.  I hope you have deep pockets!

Have you tried an 8.5" rear out of a H/O, 442 or buick GN?  Much stronger than the
monte ss one.

Tony Waldner wrote:

> Greetings all --
>
> January is always a slow month for me so it is always a great month, along
> with February to get the Cutlass Salon ready for another season of drag
> racing. The boats also get a once-over too!
>
> The 455 ran strong all season in the Salon, and the turbo 350 trans worked
> flawlessly. Both were perfect inside when pulled down for inspection. My
> problem is the rear end.  I have put 3 rear ends in this car since I
> started drag racing it.  All 3 came out of Monte Carlo SS' and all were
> 3.73's with a Raceway Spool.
>
> I am twisting the pinion shafts out of these. The last rear end showed a slight
> twist and stress marks right by the crush-sleeve.  I figure one more pass
> and it would have snaped off.
>
> A buddy "loaned" me a 12-bolt 4.10 rear out of his '70 Chevelle and it did
> bolt in, but the pinion nose angle was wrong and it had a nasty vibration
> in it about mid-track. The car ran slower too because I got off of the
> throttle.
>
> My question is this......Does anyone make a 9-inch Ford rear end housing
> that will bolt into a G-body?  Everyone knows that these rear ends are
> bullet proof and I am tired of this being the weak link in my drive train.
> I have two 3.50 ratio 3rd members sitting around, so a housing would be
> perfect!
>
> Any input on this would be great!
>
> Thanks....
>
> Tony
>
> 70 442 W-30
> 70 Toro GT W-34
> 65 Jetstar 88 w/4-speed
> 85 Cutlass Salon 455 Drag Racer
> 92 Seville STS



- --
Tom Lentz, tlentz@ior.com                        '84 Hurst/Olds #2118
http://www.ior.com/~tlentz                       '78 Cutlass Supreme
Network Admin, CPM Corp, Spokane, WA.            '78 Chev 1/2ton (Olds 350)

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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #1049
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