
oldsmobile-digest     Wednesday, February 4 1998     Volume 01 : Number 1086



Re: Trivia
Re: Trivia
Re: turbo on 455
cc:Mail Link to SMTP Undeliverable Message
cc:Mail Link to SMTP Undeliverable Message
cc:Mail Link to SMTP Undeliverable Message
Re: Tricarb 442 for sale
cc:Mail Link to SMTP Undeliverable Message
cc:Mail Link to SMTP Undeliverable Message
Re: Coolant leak
cc:Mail Link to SMTP Undeliverable Message
Re: Coolant leak
Re: A mountain of olds heads
Re: Thermactor (sp??) valve in snorkel
Road Trip in a 1901 Olds
Re:A mountain of olds heads
Re: Coolant leak
64 for Sale
Re: Pontiac list
Re: 68 motor ID #'s
71 cut s parts
Conv. Top Cylinder
Re: A mountain of olds heads
Turbo the 455!
Re: "New" 1970 Cutlass project
Re: "Exaust on 455" and "turbo on 455" and "455 rebuild, need decision help" and "Coil Spring cutting"
Re: A mountain of olds heads
Re: Exaust on 455
Re: Coolant leak
5 or6 speed richmand
Springfield Hotels
Re: Big Block "C" Heads
'76/'77 Fiberglass Hood
"G" HEADS
Paxton on an Olds
Re: 5 or6 speed richmand
NEED WINDSHIELD ('76 98)
67 "C" Heads  Calf emmission
Re: Trivia
Re: Coil Spring cutting
77 Starfire spotted for sale............
Re: turbo on 455
Re: Tricarb 442 for sale
new gas tank; priming carb
Oldsmobile Lansing Video from Doug Newman
shocks
Re: Springfield Hotels

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 21:39:21 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Trivia

On Mon, 2 Feb 1998, Dave Ward wrote:

> Ray wrote:
>  
> > Many of you I'm sure know this, but I just noticed last night in an old
> > Car Craft that the 307 was the last carbureted GM V8 to exist.  That's
> > cool I suppose.
> 
> Yeah, you're right;  they used the Olds 307 until 1990, and were
> commonly seen in Cadillacs.  Yes, they were carbureted, but they were
> electronic....computers had already started to take their toll.

Oh, I know about those damn computers they put in!  Started in 81 I think?
My car had a computer, but I figured that it was taking .000001 seconds
off my ET, so I donated it to a landfill.

> 
> -------------------------------------------
> S. Dave Ward  (mailto:ward@ptbo.igs.net)
> 
> '78 Delta 88 Royale (350 4bbl.)
> '85 Delta 88 R.B.   (307 4bbl.)
> '91 GMC Sierra 4x4  (305 TBI)
> 
> (Ennismore, Ontario, CANADA)
> 

Ray since the car is running perfect, the stereo stopped working Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 21:41:49 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Trivia

On Mon, 2 Feb 1998, Charley Buehner wrote:

> > Car Craft that the 307 was the last carbureted GM V8 to exist.  That's
> > cool I suppose.
> 
> Hmm, Ray, I think you read something wrong.  Are you ~sure~ it was "Car
> Craft"???  I can't see them printing something like that.  ~Everyone~
> knows, at least according to car craft, that ch*vy 350's were the ~only~
> engine to exist ever...  I just can't imagine them finally printing
> something so remarkably close to truth!  :)
> 

HA HA HA, HOW TRUE! 

> -- 
>                Charley Buehner -- The Oldsmobile Magnet
> For Me:  mailto:buehner@lyrea.com       mailto:charley@rocketship.com
> 		http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner
>     Sidney Radio Shack:     mailto:redline_av@webtv.net
> 		        Sidney Montana
> 

Ray since the car is running perfect, the stereo stopped working Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 21:44:29 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: turbo on 455

On Mon, 2 Feb 1998, Igor wrote:

> Would it be possible to turbocharge the 455 (with 8.4 compression) and how
> much power gain/cost/trouble would it be.  I am also MILDLY concerned about
> fuel economy since the car is a high-way car for a good part of its use.
> 
> 
Didn't I read about someone with a twin-turbo/supercharged/nitrous 455?
Was it in an old Car Craft too?


Ray since the car is running perfect, the stereo stopped working Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass 

------------------------------

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To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
From: Glenn Connors <gpc442@buffnet.net>
Subject: Re: Coolant leak
Date: 	Tue, 3 Feb 98 22:30:11 EST
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At 11:00 2/3/98 -0500, you wrote:
>After fixing the leak from the resevoir to my radiator, I
>have found then every morning, about a tablespoon of coolant
>on my garage floor.  It's under the engine block, not the 
>rad.  Any clues as to what kind ove masive repair this will
>entail (please, be gentle...)?
>
>Oops the car is an '86 Custom Cruiser.  As an aside, anyone 
>know what the knob on my passenger seat is?  Both seats have
>3 controls on the side ( angle, forward / backward, up / down)
>but the passenger seat has a knob that it looks like a handle
>goes on.  Maybe it's a handle to swing the seat out?
>
>thanks,
>
>Darren King
>

      The leak is quite possibly coming from a soft-plug in the block.  Not
a difficult repair at all.  Soft-plugs are inexpensive. Coolant is not.  If
you don't plan on doing the repair right away and you have determined that
it is in fact a soft-plug, you may consider using a lower pressure radiator
cap as long as you have a coolant overflow bottle on the system.

      Glenn
      '69 4-4-2 



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From: "Ulysses Melen" <Master-Stile@worldnet.att.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: A mountain of olds heads
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- ----------
> 
> 
> I'm going on Friday to root thru em.  I'll be looking for "F" "D"
> > and "H" heads... are there any other castings worth a good buck or is 
> 

I'm looking for H & G also.  Drop me a line if you gots!!  Good hunting..

Ulysses Melen
71 Cutlass S
85 Indy 500 Calais
92 Achieva


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From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
cc: me from myself <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: Re: Ford Tools
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On Sun, 1 Feb 1998, Chris Brown Witt wrote:

>      Oh yeah, does anybody have an easy way of removing the
> radio/heater control trim on a 81-88 Cutlass without damaging it?
> Hopefully it won't involve a block of wood and a hammer :) (are you
> listening Chris?) John Pajak

I use one of those double ended scribes that came in the 5-pack specialty
tool bag from Sears.  (the sac with the antenna magnet, dentist mirror,
scribe, and two crew starters).  Anything that's bent 90 degrees at the
tip and is skinny enough to get in at the four corners will do.  I've had
the piece off many times and never broke it.

Ray since the car is running perfect, the stereo stopped working Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass 



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 21:51:41 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Tricarb 442 for sale

On Tue, 3 Feb 1998 AGUY4RUMLI@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 98-02-02 20:58:51 EST, you write:
> 
> << Don't want to buy the car, but where'd they hook up with the intake for
>  > tri-power?  On a 400?  Does such an intake exist?
>  >>
> I have one for sale if your interested $1000.00 with carbs.
> 
for a small block?  Now my hopes are all up just so they can be kicked in
the head and knocked back to the ground.


Ray since the car is running perfect, the stereo stopped working Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass 

------------------------------

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Date: 	Tue, 3 Feb 1998 21:15:33 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
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The one in Tucson is still open.  I picked up a Hurst shifter at 40% off.
Now, if I only had bucket seats and a console!  Very cool sale they have
going on, thanks all for the tip!

Ray since the car is running perfect, the stereo stopped working Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass 



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From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: Re: Howdy...
In-Reply-To: <19980202222737.4324.qmail@hotmail.com>
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On Mon, 2 Feb 1998, John Stolarski wrote:

> Howdy all...after a brief hiatus, I am now back...
> I'm sure you all missed me so...
> 
> 
>   John Stolarski
> '86 Cutlass Supreme
>  The "Black Mariah"
> 
We miss anyone with a G-body!


> 
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> 

Ray since the car is running perfect, the stereo stopped working Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass 



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 21:54:51 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Coolant leak

On Tue, 3 Feb 1998, Darren King wrote:

> After fixing the leak from the resevoir to my radiator, I
> have found then every morning, about a tablespoon of coolant
> on my garage floor.  It's under the engine block, not the 
> rad.  Any clues as to what kind ove masive repair this will
> entail (please, be gentle...)?

Don't jump to any costly sonclusions yet.  I had a coolant leak that
appeared under the block, but only because it trickled back before it
fell.  It was only a leak at the thernostat housing.

> 
> Oops the car is an '86 Custom Cruiser.  As an aside, anyone 
> know what the knob on my passenger seat is?  Both seats have
> 3 controls on the side ( angle, forward / backward, up / down)
> but the passenger seat has a knob that it looks like a handle
> goes on.  Maybe it's a handle to swing the seat out?

ejection handle? 

> thanks,
> 
> Darren King
> 

Ray since the car is running perfect, the stereo stopped working Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass 

------------------------------

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From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
To: Oldsmobile Mail List <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: FORD fuel problem
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On Tue, 3 Feb 1998, Esko Ilola wrote:

> Chris Sparks wrote:
> > Well in So. California the gas is $1.31 for 92 octane!  Boy are we getting
> > ripped off out here!
> 
> Finland:
> Unleaded 	95E  3.98

Well, now that my compression's up to 10.5:1, I run a mix of 92/100
octane.  The 92 is 1.299 and the 100 is 3.999!!!  Mind you, it is like a 8
to 1 mix though.  Still, it sucks!  

> 			99	 4.12
> 
> I'm talking here dollars/gallon
> 
> That's not ripping, it's a rape.
> 
> -- 
> x----------------------------------------------------x
> x Esko Ilola       mailto:esko.ilola@tele.fi         x
> x                  mailto:esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi x
> x                   phone:+358 2040 3439             x
> x Oldsmobile 98 -64 4DHT  Holiday sports sedan       x
> x "Where the action is...."                          x
> x----------------------------------------------------x
> 

Ray since the car is running perfect, the stereo stopped working Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass 



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Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 21:12:23 -0800
From: Tom Lentz <tlentz@ior.com>
Subject: Re: Coolant leak

Darren King wrote:

> After fixing the leak from the resevoir to my radiator, I
> have found then every morning, about a tablespoon of coolant
> on my garage floor.  It's under the engine block, not the

Assuming this is a 307. . .If it's under the front of the block:
- -- Check the front edge of the intake manifold.  Especially where the
intake manifold, block, and cylinder heads converge.  Look for traces of
coolant, or deposits left behind.
- -- Check out the water pump.  When the seals go it starts leaking out
the weep hole on the bottom.
- -- Make sure the hoses on the water pump (the short bypass hose too) are
clamped securely.
If it's at the rear of the block:
- -- Check the rear of the intake manifold.  Same problem as the front.
May be hard to see, might need an inspection mirror and a flashlight.
- -- Check the heater control valve (on the rear pass side of the intake,
by the distributor).  These fail frequently.
On the sides:
- -- Check the drain plugs on the sides of the block.
- -- Check for leaking around the freeze plugs.
- -- Heads leaking.  Ugh.

The heater control valve is the easiest fix.  Screws right in.  Intake
manifold and water pump are about the same amount of work, plan on the
better part of a day for your first time (about how long it took me,
going slow and being very meticulous).  Nothing hard about either fix,
and no special tools required either.  Water pump is definitely
something you'll want to fix, since if the coolant is leaking past the
seals the lubricant is probably washed away and you can expect the
bearings to fail soon.  The leaking intake isn't urgent (unless it's
leaking into the oil or something like that), you may even consider
trying some Bars Leak on it first.  May not work, but what the heck.
Bars Leak fixed a pinhole leak in our truck radiator, and I figure that
since GM uses the exact same stuff (but in pellet form) from the factory
in NEW engines, it can't be that bad.

> Oops the car is an '86 Custom Cruiser.  As an aside, anyone
> know what the knob on my passenger seat is?  Both seats have

Uhh... pull it and find out???

Tom Lentz
tlentz@ior.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 01:07:20 -0500 (EST)
From: "Peg O'Connor" <peg@grove.ufl.edu>
Subject: Re: A mountain of olds heads

>  I have access to a hugh cache of Olds heads. They were bought em from Lubrizol
> circa 1970.  I'm going on Friday to root thru em.  I'll be looking for "F" "D"
> and "H" heads... are there any other castings worth a good buck or is that the
> only 3?

Oldsheads?  You talking about us again?  ;)

8)
peg

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 23:49:58 -0800 (PST)
From: "R. Coons" <rcoons@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Thermactor (sp??) valve in snorkel

> My problem is this:
> The thermactor valve in the snorkel closes as soon as I start the
> engine like it's supposed to, but it doesn't open again. At least it
> didn't open after idling for 10 minutes and then a seven or eight mile
> run. The temp is only about 30 deg, but the car should have been fully
> warmed up. It ran fine for this whole time.

I had the opposite problem with the one on my '72 Cutlass, your '69 should
be similar.  First, according to my shop manual the damper in the snorkel
shouldn't start to open until the underhood temperature reaches 77
degrees.  It shouldn't fully until 123 degrees.  If your temperature high
enough then the sensor in your air cleaner housing is stuck. The good news
is fixing the sensor is fairly easy.

To repair mine, I removed the sensor from the air cleaner and broke the
pins holding the plastic cover on.  The sensor inside is just a little
housing with a ball valve held shut by a spring.  The spring flexes as it
heats up opening the valve.  The spring has an adjusting screw, but in
your case I would guess that the valve is stuck.  Hopefully you can just
push the spring down a couple of times and break everything free.  In my
case a bunch of crud collected on the valve seat so the valve would not
seal.  I bent up the tabs holding together the two halves of the sensor
housing, cleaned off all of the parts, and glued it all back together.  It
looks as good as it did when I started, and it works.  I hope some of this
helps. Good Luck.

Greg Coons
1972 Cutlass Supreme
1972 Cutlass Convertible

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 00:10:50 -0800 (PST)
From: "R. Coons" <rcoons@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Road Trip in a 1901 Olds

	I heard an interesting story today.  A gentleman in the Seattle
area is planning to drive his 1901 Oldsmobile from Seattle to Nevada this
summer.  As if that is not enough, he is looking for a lady to go along
with him.  He put an add in the local newspaper and as he put it "all hell
broke loose".  He got so many responses he was even interviewed by a
couple of the local radio stations.  Any lady Oldsmobilers out there
interested?

Greg Coons
1972 Cutlass Supreme
1972 Cutlass Convertible

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 13:49:32 +0300
From: Esko Ilola <esko.ilola@tele.fi>
Subject: Re:A mountain of olds heads

Our Niny needs new head(s). It has a 394.

If the mountain You're talking about has these, please
inform me either directly or via this list.

- -- 
x----------------------------------------------------x
x Esko Ilola       mailto:esko.ilola@tele.fi         x
x                  mailto:esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi x
x                   phone:+358 2040 3439             x
x Oldsmobile 98 -64 4DHT  Holiday sports sedan       x
x "Where the action is...."                          x
x----------------------------------------------------x

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 14:08:44 -0600 (CST)
From: hitson@leadbelt.com
Subject: Re: Coolant leak

Darren King wrote:

>After fixing the leak from the resevoir to my radiator, I
>have found then every morning, about a tablespoon of coolant
>on my garage floor.  It's under the engine block, not the 
>rad.  Any clues as to what kind ove masive repair this will
>entail (please, be gentle...)?

Suspect that your water pump is leaking from a weep hole. Look very 
carefully  (use a light) at the bottom of the water pump near where the 
bottom radiator hose attaches. Other possibility is lower hose has a leak at 
or near point of attachment to water pump. 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 20:19:27 -0800
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: 64 for Sale

Received the following for sale notice - normal disclaimers apply:


Reply to me - can't find the e-mail address for this individual:
I have a 64 olds cutlass with 65th miles I'am the second owner. It is a
2 door sea mist green with white bucket seats,auto.4bl carb 330 V8.Asking3700
or 58 Chevy 2 door trade or ? thanks John

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 20:12:33 -0800
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Re: Pontiac list

We have come across a '63 Gran Prix for sale along with the other parts
we've located.  Just for reference sake the site for the Pontiac bulletin
board is at http://www.1pontiac.com (not pontiac1.com as previously noted).


Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, CA

'64 Cutlass, '66 Toronado, '67 Delta 88 Custom, '69 Toronado, '72 Vista
Cruiser (twin hauler)

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://server.exo.com/~jht/olds/

Subscribe To : Lisa's Classic Oldsmobile Bulletin Board Mailing List:
Glass Line's Bulletin Board: http://server.exo.com/~jht/olds/oldsbbs/index.cgi

Lisa's Oldsmobile FREE Banner Exchange
http://server.exo.com/~jht/olds/banners/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 08:07:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Christopher Casteel <earthsci@POP.usit.net>
Subject: Re: 68 motor ID #'s

At 11:50 PM 2/1/98 -0500, you wrote:
>From: Ridn88@aol.com
>Subject: i.d.numbers
>
>hey guys i need some help. got these numbers of the oil fill tube.of my 68 455
>8375883.can anybody tell me what they mean? also my heads have the letter C

>------------------------------
>8xxxxxx= a 1968 motor, but you knew that already, huh?
>
>8375883= engine #375883 or maybe 275883 off whatever line it came off of that
>year, if they started with first unit marked 100001 which is not uncommon.
>
>C heads, yep, best you can get for cheap. What specs? Mondello's Tech manual
>lists flow figures. A few.
>


What about this one?

It's a non original Olds 455 in a 442 project I recently purchased.

Has the number 03582xx stamped on the oil fill tube.  The engine color is a
light blue (under the grime and rust).

What else do I need to look for and where do I need to look?  I'm curious as
to what this engine came from and if it's one of the mild or hotter 455s.

Thanks,  
earthsci@usit.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 08:43:06 -0500
From: "B. Vosburgh" <bob442@svic.net>
Subject: 71 cut s parts

both front fenders are in good condition no rust ,small dents. hood is
in good condition has chrome loovers. doors are in good condition,
completeand no rust . rear deck has little rust on inside .bumpers are
in fair shape. 600.00 for all.  parts are in chiefland FL.
352-493-4767-          Butch

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Feb 98 12:34:55 PST8
From: hpnaepflin@CCGATE.HAC.COM
Subject: Conv. Top Cylinder

I have a NOS GM replacement Convertible top cylinder in the box (box ratty). 
The part number is #4512194, Lift Assy.  Anybody know what applications this
will fit and does anybody want to make an offer for it?

Hans

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 09:50:31 -0500 (EST)
From: The Viking <avar@infinet.com>
Subject: Re: A mountain of olds heads

Just where is this mother lode located?

Al Varhus
Columbus, Ohio 
http://www.infinet.com/~avar
 
  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 10:20:06 -0600
From: Thomas Martin <Thomas_Martin@css.mot.com>
Subject: Turbo the 455!

HO Racing had a 403 Turbo kit for the 77-79 Trans AM's with the Olds V8.
 I would contact who ever is left and see what you can do.  As for
finding one, good luck, they have not been made in 10 years.  Look for
Ken Crocie.  I think that is the only guy left, HO racing is closed, but
there is a guy left doing Pontiac support.  Try doing a web search for
Larry Winsler, that will put you in the heart of Pontiac territory, then
look for HO or call Larry, he can help you find what is left of HO
Racing.  He makes Aluminum Pontiac heads.  Pontiac Magazine did a write
up on it, and has lots of pictures of both kits, and if you can find an
old HO Racing catalog, that will help as well.

As for compression, I like 6.75-7.5 for Turbocharging.  You can run
about 10 psi boost without any computer control, but I would HIGHLY
recommend some sort of AUTOMATIC ping control.  (water injection helps
streetability too)  Any more boost will require ECM control, you can see
what the Buick guys do with the GN!!  11's and running 22 mpg!

For every 14.7 PSI of boost, that is DOUBLE the amount of air/fuel going
into the engine.  Effectively doubling the CID.   Have fun!!  455 X 2 =
910 CID, and get 15-18 mpg!

BTW, my 80 Trans AM is one if the Turbo models without any computer.  I
like it, it is FUN!!!  I finally melted a piston racing a friend, but I
beat MANY Rustangs with the fairly stock 301.  So I dropped in a 455
Pontiac, now I have a 400, would rather twin turbo the 400, smaller
reciprocating assy, revs better.  I will get my turbo back, in one form
or another

Thomas Martin
85 Cutlass Supreme Rocket 350 CCC

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 11:18:36 -0500
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: "New" 1970 Cutlass project

>First, a big THANK YOU to Chris Brown Witt for his help in securing a
 [snip]
>Now for the questions.  We have a great 1970 Cutlass sitting in our
>shop with no engine or tranny (these will come from the '69).
>Everything is in real good shape.  The frame is painted, but does show
>a few spots of surface rust.  The brakes seem okay, but we haven't
>checked them over completely.  The interior and body just need a
>little spot work and clean up.  What should we work on between now and
>engine transplant time to get everything ready?  

This is the time to detail all the little things that you'll never get
around to later, like the engine compartment, the engine brackets, replace
the brake lines if they are at all questionable (especially the hard line
to the right-front wheel- a cinch with the engine out, a bitch with it
in!). Don't do any front suspension work until the engine is installed;
much easier to assemble things when the weight of the engine can push
against the front coil spring (been there, regretted that!).

>What
>modifications/upgrades should we consider when rebuilding the engine
>and transmission.  Keep in mind, Ryan is only 16, has a job with
>limited hours (and a girlfriend) that limit the funds for this
>project.  I will help him out (if he lets me drive his car now and
>then), but funds will be limited.

Well, get that girlfriend to work on the car, and if possible, get her a
job so she can help pay for it too! Two birds, one stone. ;)  <just
kidding...>

Be picky about the engine clearances on assembly. The stock Olds parts are
very good; you can improve on the cam, and add an HEI ignition, but further
mods start to add up in $$$. 

__________________________________________________________
Bob Barry  	     MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu

1969 Toronado		 455/TH425
     See it at http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/drbob69.htm
1970 Cutlass Supreme SX	 455/TH400
1978 Electra Limited	 409/TH400

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 11:13:17 -0500
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: "Exaust on 455" and "turbo on 455" and "455 rebuild, need decision help" and "Coil Spring cutting"

>I am going to drop the 455 into a '81 Delta.  I need the car to be mobile
>until I get it painted and do the interior.  For the time, I would like to
>break the motor in and will mate it to the TH250 that is in the car until
>all the work is done.  Now, I plan to put 2.5" dual exaust on it with
>dynomax mufflers and no cat.  But, I am planing to be able to pay for that
>after the body work is done.  The car currently has a brand new exaust that
>was used by the 307 for a week.  It is a single 2.25" pipe, no cat, and a
>Dynomax muffler.  It is not a restrictive exaust, but will it be too small
>of a pipe for the 455 until I can afford duals?  Since I will fire-up and
>drive the 455 for the first time with this exaust, I don't wan't to be
>dissapointed. (you know what they say about first impressions)  So, will
>the 455 perform decently with the single 2.25" exaust or should I not fire
>it up befoure I install duals.  Thanks. 

You want to be disappointed with this swap, unless you also change out the
tranny as well. A stock, used TH250 has a torque rating well below that of
any 455, so you'll want to restrict its power output as much as possible,
or else the engine's first WOT will be that tranny's last. So, go with the
single exhaust, lock out the secondaries on the carb, retard the ignition
advance, and you'll *still* have more power than the 307, but there will be
a chance that your TH250 will survive. After all, the only reason you need
the car to move is to get it to the body shop. Then, after you pay for the
bodywork, buy yourself a decent transmission, and *then* you can add the
dual exhaust, unlock the secondaries, and begin to worry about "satisfying"
performance.

>Subject: turbo on 455
>
>Would it be possible to turbocharge the 455 (with 8.4 compression) and how
>much power gain/cost/trouble would it be.  I am also MILDLY concerned about
>fuel economy since the car is a high-way car for a good part of its use.

You could gain 50% in horsepower, without much penalty in fuel economy.
Just be aware of the packaging problems you'd have; you'll have to work out
some custom exhaust plumbing, an appropriate induction system, heat
shields, and then of course the turbo(s) itself, and the associated
intercooler, oil lines, etc. Figure $3000, for a basic system, unless you
weld exhausts yourself. Oh, and the bottom end had *better* be built to
take the boost (forged pistons, prepped rods, O-rings, etc...), which you
might have been doing anyway. Figure a good $1500-$2000 for a good bottom
end, parts and machining.

How long would it take, though, for you to save $5000 in gasoline? A
nitrous system would be better, $$$-wise: though the basic block prep would
be the same, the induction system is much simpler.

>Subject: 455 rebuild, need decision help
>
>I am rebuilding a '76 455 to put into my 81 Delta.  The motor has been
>completley dissasembled, cleaned and ready for reasembly.  My problem is
>that I can't decide what to do about the bore and the pistons. The stock
>pistons (which are 8.5) compression are in good shape.  The bore is also
>good with no visible scratches or anything.  It does have a little rige or
>a lip up top where the piston rings end ( I belive this is called a taper).

Taper is when the diameter of the cylinder varies from the top to the
bottom of the bore. What you see up there is a ridge. What you need to do
is have the existing bore measured, and see if the surface hone (which you
absolutely need, if you've disassembled the motor and will be installing
new rings, in any case) is possible, and if it is possible, if it will put
your cylinder-piston clearances beyond spec (which will cause excessive oil
consumption, and hurt hp). Only if the hone won't make the cylinder too
large for your existing pistons (stock or knurled) can you reuse your
existing pistons. Otherwise, you've got to go the piston/ring/bore/hone route.

> I would really like to keep the stock pistons and bore as new pistons
>would set me back $420.00 + $200.00 (for rebore and hone) Canadian dollars.
> This is as much as the whole engine would cost me to rebuid.  My question

New pistons and the associated machine work are generally considered
standard with any engine rebuild. Anything less is usually considered a
"re-ring" or "freshening". And yes, the costs do add up. See if you can
work out a payment plan, or put it on a credit card (costs more over time,
but at least you can get it done, as opposed to having a stash of
unmachined engine parts!).

>is how much of a ridge is too much (it is not large at all).  I am not

Usually any discernable ridge is too much. Piston-wall clearances are
measured in .001" increments, so if you can feel it, you probably have to
bore and hone it. How many miles on the engine?

>expecting the motor to be a race engine but would like it to deliver a
>punch to my 81 and to last a few miles.  Has anyone ever put new rings on
>old pistons and how did it go.  The motor blew blue smoke out the tailpipe
 [snip]

You *could* put new rings on those old pistons, without the necessary
machine work, but your oil consumption would be high (higher than with the
old worn rings), cylinder pressure would be low, and performance would be
way below your expectations. The clearances on pistons and the seating of
rings is of greater concern for a street motor than a race motor, as you're
(hopefully) not going to be tearing it down at the end of every drive or
summer to check for problems, nor will you have the opportunity to do this
on a street car. Spend more money up front, and you'll save money over the
life of the engine.

 [snip]
>it is a good power-house that is better then the 307, on a low-buck budget.

You can do it on a low budget, but not *too* low. Spend the money in the
right places (even if you have to sacrifice things initially, like the dual
exhausts or a paint job), and you'll be happier in the long run. It looks
like you've already committed yourself (intentionally or not) to a full
engine rebuild. Make that your first priority, and once that is squared
away, move onto other parts of the project. The danger, of course, is that
you can sink a lot of money into a project, and if you don't have enough
funds to do everything at once, you place your money in the wrong places,
and tie it up in an immobile pro

>Coil Spring cutting
>
>I would like to lower my 81 Delta by about 1.5 inches.  I will paint it

Is this the one with the 307 -> 455 swap? If so, then don't worry about
cutting the coils- the extra weight of the 455 will certainly lower it's
snout!

>particuilarly in the front would give it that mean olds look.  So, since I
>am on serious budget, I am wondering if I could cut the sprigs to lower the
>car.  It would be cheap.  I would like to get a 1 to 1.5 inch shorter look
>with a possibly 20% stiffer ride for handling ( I realize that this may not
>be possible if I cut stock springs).  If I do cut the springs, how much can
>I cut them without bottoming out and stuff like that.  The car has new HD
>shocks as well as 255/60/15 BFG tires all around, so that may be something
>to consider.  Thanks for the input.

First see where the engine swap puts you. The best bet would be to get the
heaviest duty springs for the front of this car that were ever made
(probably a diesel 350 w/AC car application), and then begin cutting a 1/2
coil at a time with a cutoff wheel until you're happy. Stock used 307
springs, however, probably won't be nearly up to the task of the job you're
asking them to do. The good thing is that springs are cheap; it's the labor
that's the pain.

Boy, looks like you'll be spending *lots* of money soon! I guess this is a
good time to be in the Oldsmobile parts industry... :)
__________________________________________________________
Bob Barry  	     MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu

1969 Toronado		 455/TH425
     See it at http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/drbob69.htm
1970 Cutlass Supreme SX	 455/TH400
1978 Electra Limited	 409/TH400

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 11:24:06 -0500
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: A mountain of olds heads

> I have access to a hugh cache of Olds heads. They were bought em from
Lubrizol
>circa 1970.  I'm going on Friday to root thru em.  I'll be looking for "F"
"D"
>and "H" heads... are there any other castings worth a good buck or is that
the
>only 3?

Well, the "H" and "G" heads are post-'70, so don't get too hopeful. One can
never have enough "C" or "E" heads, though, and the "B" heads are worth a
few $$$.

Don't forget the "5-6-7-7a" small-block heads, especially those "7a"'s.

Oh, fwiw, saw the Olds aluminum head mentioned in the latest Edelbrock
advertisement in Car Craft. Those "F-D-H" heads may soon have only
historical value...
__________________________________________________________
Bob Barry  	     MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu

1969 Toronado		 455/TH425
     See it at http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/drbob69.htm
1970 Cutlass Supreme SX	 455/TH400
1978 Electra Limited	 409/TH400

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 11:26:26 -0500
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: Exaust on 455

>Another consideration you might make is the manifolds.  Can someone 
>tell me if the W/Z exhaust manifolds really flow better.  The FAQ says 
>they have 2.5" outlets which would allow for bigger exhaust.

No stock small-block manifolds compare to these, nor do most Toro or
big-block single-exhaust manifolds; the passages are huge, as is the
casting. Don't know that the outlet is 2.5", though; the factory 2 1/4"
pipe bolted up, and didn't appear much smaller on my set on the car. I'll
have to check the pair downstairs tonight (don't keep them in my office... :)
__________________________________________________________
Bob Barry  	     MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu

1969 Toronado		 455/TH425
     See it at http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/drbob69.htm
1970 Cutlass Supreme SX	 455/TH400
1978 Electra Limited	 409/TH400

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 11:20:40 -0500
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: Coolant leak

>After fixing the leak from the resevoir to my radiator, I
>have found then every morning, about a tablespoon of coolant
>on my garage floor.  It's under the engine block, not the 
>rad.  Any clues as to what kind ove masive repair this will
>entail (please, be gentle...)?

If the coolant is from the front of the block, I'd guess it's from the
water pump weep hole; when the bearing wears, it exposes this little
opening, and coolant begins to *drip-drip* from around the balancer. Just
need to replace that soon if it's the problem.

If it's from elsewhere, then I don't envy you. ;)
__________________________________________________________
Bob Barry  	     MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu

1969 Toronado		 455/TH425
     See it at http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/drbob69.htm
1970 Cutlass Supreme SX	 455/TH400
1978 Electra Limited	 409/TH400

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 12:14:15 -0500
From: "B. Vosburgh" <bob442@svic.net>
Subject: 5 or6 speed richmand

has anyone ever installed a 5 or 6 speed richmond trans in a 68 olds
442  455engine . need to know if will fit and hold up to engine
torque      thank you

butch      bob442@svic.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 12:12:05 -0600
From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mh1.mcis.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Springfield Hotels

As a cheap route, try the Springfield Red Roof Inn. A double was $53. Made
reservations Monday night. I don't know how far from the other hotels that RRI
is, or from the action, but most of the Lansing hotels were a ways away!
- --
David Brown          Mailto:dbrown@mh1.mcis.uchicago.edu
          Oldsmobile Mailing List FAQ 4.1 at:
http://www.442.com   OR   http://www.en.com/users/thall
  http://nero.dyn.ml.org/~da_bomb/oldsfaq/oldsfaq.htm
Conserve bandwidth, get the zip file for local viewing:
           ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds
http://nero.dyn.ml.org/~da_bomb/oldsfaq/zip/oldsfaq4.zip

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 13:29:38 -0500
From: Gerald Hughes <ghughes@hughesconsulting.com>
Subject: Re: Big Block "C" Heads

AGUY4RUMLI,
	I don't know offhand, but the info would be in the Olds FAQ on
www.442.com.
I am located in Philadelphia.  Thanks for your interest.
									Gerald Hughes



AGUY4RUMLI@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 98-01-29 01:52:04 EST, you write:
> 
> << Hey you BB Smackheads,
> 
>         I have a pair of "C" BB heads that need to be redone.
> 
>         I will accept $150.00 for them.
> 
>         They are not cracked, they just need to be redone.
> 
>                                                         Gerald Hughes
>   >>
> Where are you located ? do you know what cc chambers they are. And what size
> intake valve. Thanks

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 14:35:13 -0500
From: "Michael A. Evans" <evans1@net-link.net>
Subject: '76/'77 Fiberglass Hood

Hey, for everyone that was looking for the elusive '76/'77 fiberglass hood,
VFN Fiberglass in Addison, IL sells both a stock type and a "442 ram-air"
type hood.  They're sending me some info so I can see if it's a W-25 setup,
hinged setup is $345.

Reach them at (630) 543-0232.

Is this the place you were thinking of, Mark Prince?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 12:03:57 PST
From: "john foster" <anyasbbj@hotmail.com>
Subject: "G" HEADS

IT SEEMS THAT WHILE EVERYONE IT TALKING ABOUT HEADS, I WAS WONDERING IF 
ANYONE KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT "G" HEADS. I PICKED UP A 455 FROM A FRIEND 
OF A FRIEND THAT GOT IT FROM A FRIND AND SO ON. SO NEED LESS TO SAY I 
HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IT CAME OUT OF. I'M STUFFING IT INTO A 59'CHEVY 
PICK-UP AND I'M TRYING TO FING OUT TO CC RATING. 

ALSO IS THERE ANY NUMBERS ON THE BLOCK THAT WOULD SAY WHAT IT CAME OUT 
OF. I FIQURE IT IS OUT OF A 73 OF EARLIER BECAUSE IT HAS HARDENED SEATS.

IF ANYONE KNOWS PLEASE LET ME KNOW
JOHN  

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 15:07:51 +0000
From: Matt Cremean <ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
Subject: Paxton on an Olds

I found this page. Though it's for Ch*vy, it'll still work because we
use the same carbs.

http://www.paxtonproducts.com/pages/Pre84Chev.html

Just with all this talk about turbocharging, I thought about
supercharging!
- -- 
**********************************
Matt Cremean
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
CreamerSoftİ Software
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Park/5988/creamersoft.html
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
1973 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/73olds.html
**********************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 14:10:18 -0600
From: "Dave Rench" <renchd@krause.com>
Subject: Re: 5 or6 speed richmand

You might want to contact Dick Miller Racing in Lansing.  If I'm not
mistaken there catalog shows a customer's car (I don't remember the year, I
believe 70-72) with a Dick Miller built 455 and a 6 speed.  They may be
able to put you in touch with the owner who can give you some tips. 

- ----------
> From: B. Vosburgh <bob442@svic.net>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: 5 or6 speed richmand
> Date: Wednesday, February 04, 1998 11:14 AM
> 
> has anyone ever installed a 5 or 6 speed richmond trans in a 68 olds
> 442  455engine . need to know if will fit and hold up to engine
> torque      thank you
> 
> butch      bob442@svic.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 14:14:26 -0600
From: Jeremy Enos <j-enos@students.uiuc.edu>
Subject: NEED WINDSHIELD ('76 98)

Anyone got a windshield available for a '76 98 4-dr hardtop?  The
new ones are so incredibly expensive.  I'm in Central IL if anyone's
got one.  Thanks-

Jeremy Enos

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 14:34:51 -0600
From: John Foster <jdfoster@n-link.com>
Subject: 67 "C" Heads  Calf emmission

Folks,

	I have a set of heads off a 1967 442 (from calfornia) that has the
exhaust ports drilled for AIR emmission system.  I would like to trade
for a non drilled set.  Any takers?
	

					John

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 15:48:08 EST
From: RCKTPWR@aol.com
Subject: Re: Trivia

In a message dated 2/4/98 12:12:35 AM Eastern Standard Time,
rayc@U.Arizona.EDU writes:

<<  
 > Hmm, Ray, I think you read something wrong.  Are you ~sure~ it was "Car
 > Craft"???  I can't see them printing something like that.  ~Everyone~
 > knows, at least according to car craft, that ch*vy 350's were the ~only~
 > engine to exist ever...  I just can't imagine them finally printing
 > something so remarkably close to truth!  :)
 > 
  >>
yes yes people..that article was right next to that hop up article on the
ultra rare 69 camaro!!!!!!
Bernie

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 98 01:35:06 GMT
From: "padavano.joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Re: Coil Spring cutting

I would like to lower my 81 Delta by about 1.5 inches....I am wondering if 
I could cut the sprigs to lower the car.  It would be cheap.

     This certainly works on the fronts (I've done it on several Oldses).  
     I don't know what the rear coils on your Delta look like, however most 
     have the end coils wound at a smaller diameter.  If this is the case, 
     the coils cannot be cut - to do so would prevent you from reinstalling 
     them.  If the rear coils are a constant diameter on at least one end, 
     they can be cut.

  I would like to get a 1 to 1.5 inch shorter look with a possibly 20% 
stiffer ride for handling ( I realize that this may not be possible if I 
cut stock springs).

     We've had this discussion here before, but yes, cutting the springs 
     _will_ effectively make them stiffer when reinstalled.

If I do cut the springs, how much can I cut them without bottoming out and 
stuff like that.  

     The answer is definitely "it depends".  On the fronts, start at 1/2 
     coil.  Don't go more than one full coil.  Obviously, this trial and 
     error method requires you to remove, cut, and reinstall the springs in 
     order to check, which is a lot of work.  Unfortunately, if you go too 
     far, you're buying new springs, so it pays to do the extra work.
     
     The rears (if, in fact, they _can_ be cut) shouldn't be shortened more 
     than 1/2 a coil.  Since the rears are much easier to R&R than the 
     fronts, I'd definitely do this in little steps.

The car has new HD shocks as well as 255/60/15 BFG tires all around, so 
that may be something to consider.  Thanks for the input.

     Glad to help.  One other thing to consider is how to cut them.  I've 
     used two methods successfully.  First is the ever-popular cutting 
     torch, if you have access to one.  The only trick here is to immerse 
     the coil in a bucket of water up to about 1/4 coil below where you 
     intend to cut.  This will prevent you from annealing the metal during 
     the cutting process.  Second is to use an abrasive cutoff wheel.  I 
     mounted one on my table saw and cut a pair of springs that way also.  
     Just have a bucket of water handy to quench the cut spring.
     
     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com
     
     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 15:52:24 EST
From: RCKTPWR@aol.com
Subject: 77 Starfire spotted for sale............

Saw an ad in the paper.......40k orig miles  p/s p/b auto v-6 hatchback orig
owner
973-992-3082 this is in NJ   

dont know the guy, just passing info on to others,,,blah blah
blah.yadayadayada
Bernie

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 14:04:22 -0700
From: Charley Buehner <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Re: turbo on 455

Ray wrote:

> Didn't I read about someone with a twin-turbo/supercharged/nitrous 455?
> Was it in an old Car Craft too?
> 

I'd reported a Twin Turbo'd 455 Firebird a while back.  A salesman at
the Dodge dealer I worked at had it.  Reported to have been built by
Motor Trend.  Sweet car, but odds are slim that he'd ever get it
together.  Sent the turbos off to get redone, and charged to the
dealer.  He was politely informed that he didn't work there anymore, and
to get his #%@$ car out of the shop, etc.  This was a few years back. 
He probably still hasn't paid for the turbos!  ;(  I was really excited
to see it run though.  Too bad.  I ~really~ wanted to see that cocky
$#@#%$ get smoked by a Rocket!!!  Supposedly the car ~was~ the real
thing, though.  I've never seen any article to verify it, though.
- -- 
               Charley Buehner -- The Oldsmobile Magnet
For Me:  mailto:buehner@lyrea.com       mailto:charley@rocketship.com
		http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner
    Sidney Radio Shack:     mailto:redline_av@webtv.net
		        Sidney Montana

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 16:15:50 -0500
From: MROTHE <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Tricarb 442 for sale

> > I have one for sale if your interested $1000.00 with carbs.
> >
> for a small block?  Now my hopes are all up just so they can be kicked in
> the head and knocked back to the ground.

Sorry to do the kicking, Ray, but it WON'T fit the small block.  It was
only offered on the 400 Big Block, and by some 66/67 owners, considered
the Best Block, if you will.  Mean sucker, no doubt.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 15:39:29 -0600
From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mh1.mcis.uchicago.edu>
Subject: new gas tank; priming carb

I think there's an easier way. Couldn't you just pour a couple ounces of gas
into the carb bowl vent, then proceed to start the car? It would run a while, in
the meantime, the pump is pulling fuel from the new tank. The vent on a QJet is
the round pipe at the front of the carb.

Heck, if you didn't want to pour it down the vent, you could probably mist
enough fuel in with a spray bottle to start the engine and keep it running. Just
another option.
- -- 
David Brown          Mailto:dbrown@mh1.mcis.uchicago.edu
          Oldsmobile Mailing List FAQ 4.1 at:
http://www.442.com   OR   http://www.en.com/users/thall
  http://nero.dyn.ml.org/~da_bomb/oldsfaq/oldsfaq.htm
Conserve bandwidth, get the zip file for local viewing:
           ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds
http://nero.dyn.ml.org/~da_bomb/oldsfaq/zip/oldsfaq4.zip

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:11:43 EST
From: DROLDS350@aol.com
Subject: Oldsmobile Lansing Video from Doug Newman

I just got my Lansing video from Doug Newman and watched it last night. Very
well done!! I recommend that all of you out there get a copy of it!!! Nice job
Doug!!

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:08:55 EST
From: DROLDS350@aol.com
Subject: shocks

Can anyone out there recommend a good shock to use for a 1970 Cutlass with a
455? Also, who ia a good supplier of springs? Have any of you done front
suspension work? Is it hard, and would I be better off having a proffesional
do it?

Jim
<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/DROLDS350/w31pictures.html">W31</A>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 16:26:18 -0600
From: "Paul L. Brillhart" <PBRILL1@uic.edu>
Subject: Re: Springfield Hotels

- --------------94BF3DB5A84E31EA9210F127
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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David Brown wrote:

> As a cheap route, try the Springfield Red Roof Inn. A double was $53.
> Made
> reservations Monday night. I don't know how far from the other hotels
> that RRI
> is, or from the action, but most of the Lansing hotels were a ways
> away!
> --
>

When is the meet?  I've been out of town and missed some e-mail.

Thanks

Paul Brillhart


- --------------94BF3DB5A84E31EA9210F127
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML>
David Brown wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>As a cheap route, try the Springfield Red Roof Inn.
A double was $53. Made
<BR>reservations Monday night. I don't know how far from the other hotels
that RRI
<BR>is, or from the action, but most of the Lansing hotels were a ways
away!
<BR>--
<BR><A HREF="http://nero.dyn.ml.org/~da_bomb/oldsfaq/zip/oldsfaq4.zip"></A>&nbsp;</BLOCKQUOTE>
When is the meet?&nbsp; I've been out of town and missed some e-mail.

<P>Thanks

<P>Paul Brillhart
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;</HTML>

- --------------94BF3DB5A84E31EA9210F127--

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #1086
*********************************

