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cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #1367


oldsmobile-digest       Tuesday, July 14 1998       Volume 01 : Number 1367



subject
Re: split the list
Re: Inner Fenders, an answer and a question
Re: Split the list. (Please don't)...
Break-in Procedure.... (Long, but worth it)
Re: :)Ala rednecks wreck alot of GRAND AMS-OLDS content too:)
forgot to mention
Re: Split the list.
Re: Split the list. (Please don't)...
[none]
[none]
Re: forgot to mention
olds parts in CA
turbo regal hood on cutlass?
Re: :)Ala rednecks wreck alot of GRAND AMS-OLDS content too:)
Re: turbo regal hood on cutlass?
Vacation
Re: turbo regal hood on cutlass?
Edelbrock manifold and carb question.
Re: Running hot!!!
Re: Break-in Procedure.... (Long, but worth it)
Re: lowering a delta
Re: catorgorizing olds list
Re: catorgorizing olds list
NOTE: Split the list.
R 12 TO R 134
Re: 72 Parts for sale(442)
Re: Edelbrock manifold and carb question.
Re: Most Underpowered Factory Produced GM Car
door panel replacements
Re: Split the list.
Uh,  Peg, Everybody.....(SOM Saga)
Brake Fluid
Re: Edelbrock manifold and carb question.
OT - Disk crash - how do I unsub from Olds digest?
Re: Split the list.
Re: :)Ala rednecks wreck alot of GRAND AMS-OLDS content too:)
Re: Brake Fluid (long)
Re: Split the list. (Please don't)...
Florida list subscribers !
Don't split the list
reveal moulding.
W-31 tranny governor...verdict

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 22:31:42 -0600
From: "Eli Cranson" <edcranso@ria.net>
Subject: subject

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01BDAEAE.02504740
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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would anyone like to take a 69 CS off my hands.... it is basically just =
the frame of the car.. no engine transmission and a few missing select =
parts that I used on my 442....  it's a good project car... the frame is =
seperated in one spot.. but nothing a good welder can't fix... if you =
are interested just send me some mail and I could probably let it go for =
really cheap... of course.. if you are up for it..
my mail is edcranso@ria.net I live in Co feel free to drop me a line=20

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
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<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>would anyone like to take a 69 CS off my hands.... =
it is=20
basically just the frame of the car.. no engine transmission and a few =
missing=20
select parts that I used on my 442....&nbsp; it's a good project car... =
the=20
frame is seperated in one spot.. but nothing a good welder can't fix... =
if you=20
are interested just send me some mail and I could probably let it go for =
really=20
cheap... of course.. if you are up for it..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>my mail is <A=20
href=3D"mailto:edcranso@ria.net">edcranso@ria.net</A> I live in Co feel =
free to=20
drop me a line </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01BDAEAE.02504740--

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 21:36:33 -0700
From: "Corey Day" <dayc@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: split the list

My feelings regarding this subject are as follows:

While splitting the list seems like a good idea on the surface we must
consider the fact that splitting the list
will dismember the Olds community that we have.  I feel that Olds
enthusiasts should try to stick together.  I personally enjoy the diverse
slice of Olds owners, old and new.  Many of the more contemporary Olds
owners have often taken advantage of the "large cubic inch" engines of the
late 60's and early 70's and are able to
design, create and build their machines based on the knowledge of the 60's &
70's Olds owners.  I know this is only one example but I can also offer many
more along this same conversation thread.  Well I do not want to take up too
much of everyone's time so consider this my 2*!

Corey Day
dayc@ix.netcom.com   www.netcom.com/~dayc/
1968 Delta 88 455
1970 Cutlass S 455
1973 Omega 350
1977 Cutlass Supreme 350
1985 Cutlass 2.5L
1988 Cutlass 3.8L
As many can see I would like to share my diverse Olds background with
everyone!!!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 21:32:50 -0700
From: Kerry Kroger <kerryk@MCI2000.com>
Subject: Re: Inner Fenders, an answer and a question

no problem A&M softseal or steele should be able to hook you up..kk
- -----Original Message-----
From: Onebil2mny@aol.com <Onebil2mny@aol.com>
To: Oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <Oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Monday, July 13, 1998 9:01 PM
Subject: Inner Fenders, an answer and a question


>I was catching up on some unread mail, and discovered that a lot of talk
was
>going on about painting plastic inner fenders.  It just so happens that I
just
>got done doing that exact thing.  I talked quite a bit with the DuPont rep.
>before I chose how to paint them.  He had me use a special cleaner first
>(sorry, I don't remember the part number), then lightly sand them, then use
>the cleaner again.  Next you spray them with a ready mixed adhesion
promoter
>(kinda like an etching primer for plastics).  Then you let that dry for
about
>15min, and then you shoot it again.  Finally, you wait another 15 min or so
>and spray the ready mixed, resin based bumper black paint.  I found this
paint
>covered very well (one coat) and seems to be extreamly flexible.  The part
>number for the adheasion promoter is 2322s and the resin based paint
(actually
>a plastic bumper coating) is code 99J mixed for a semi-gloss finish.
>
>Now for the question..... my now very nice looking inner fenders need the
>rubber dust flaps, anybody know where I can get these??
>
>Keep it to the left of red!
>Bill K
>72 442conv. 454 chevy, port injection, richmond 5speed
>79 Trans Am, 403 olds, 40,000 miles

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 00:51:10 EDT
From: <CRuper1@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Split the list. (Please don't)...

In a message dated 98-07-13 17:06:15 EDT, you write:

 On Mon, 13 Jul 1998, Andrew Metcalfe wrote:
 > I've come back from the weekend to find more then 300 messages had gone
 > through... This is rediculous, the amount of content is unmanagable.

 This may or may not be too many messages. However in any event, it should
 not be a surprise. The info in the welcome message indicates this...
<snip>
 Do what I do when I go away -- I take myself off the list temporarily.
- -------------------------------------

Gee, what a good way to make Greg happy...  (leave yourself signed-on the
list, collect too many messages in your "in" box, then have them "bounce" back
to Greg/the list....  just unsub*, and resub* when back....

- -------------------------------------
> Perhaps it would be a good idea to split the list into more refined
 > subjects, maybe along the lines of years - 60-69, 70-79, and 80 - to
 > present?

 Let's make it clear again, the way I always do when this subject comes up
 -- which it does every year or so: anyone who wants to set up another
 list to take some of the load from this one is free to do so. This was
 originally set up to help me with my Cutlass, so if there is a "core" to
 this list it is the '64-'72 A-bodies. But it quickly expanded to cover
 all Oldsmobiles, with a particular emphasis on those of the Rocket V-8
 era (1949-1990). I would miss the discussion on the full-sizers if it
 disappeared. And I enjoy hearing about the older models too.
 Greg Beaulieu >>

We do hear about this (and its more like every 6 months, or so...).  I will
argue the "for" side and that is the fact that in the "Rocket Years", too many
things are of interest to everyone...  How many "G" body guys are using motors
from older cars, and gleaning information from owner of that era of car?....
If anything, peiople need to lighten up on the "me toos", and help decrease
traffic...

Chris Ruper

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 00:51:08 EDT
From: <CRuper1@aol.com>
Subject: Break-in Procedure.... (Long, but worth it)

Ok, there's been alot of talk about break-in procedure in the last day or so,
and alot of god points made, let's all go through this....

First....
At 06:48 AM 7/13/1998 -0400, you wrote:
>        You must first fire the engine and run it to 1800-2200 RPM for 15
>minutes. This has to be done so you break the cam and lifters in. They need
>the oil splash that's there at these RPMs. After that you can shut it down
>and get ready to tune. It's best to start the car up with ONLY water in the
>radiator and NO thermostat. A fresh engine has hot spots that could cause
>overheating. Once all the brak in is done, put the thermostat and your
>cooant mixture in and enjoy.

I'd have to disagree about the no-thermostat deal; this may prevent the
engine from getting up to proper operating temperature on that break-in
run. Also, prime your oil pump with a 5/16 socket welded or lock-tited to a
socket-extension run by a drill, rotating your motor as you do this so you
expose the oil journals.

Also make sure your temp gauge is hooked up and operating, so you can shut
her down if she gets too hot (don't be surprised at 220' temps, though).
Also make sure there are no open vacuum lines, which could cause the motor
to run lean (and too hot).
- ----------------------------------------------------
>Chris adds.....<
I'd agree, first with the idea of running 1500-2500 RPM for a period of 15-25
minutes (current cam cam with instruction saying so, and so have past
ones...).  There's a reason... the faster RPM, the more the lifter "glides (or
in this case "jumps") over the cam lobe.  This is supposed to be better than
letting it run at idle (this is from the cam mfg'r.  It probably also has
something to do with higher oil pressure for lubrication.  Also, you should be
pre-lubing at assembly time, and then using a drill to drive the oil pump to
get pressure though the system.  Also, I wouldn't run without the
thermostat... it is there for a purpose, and leaving it out won't heat up the
engine properly.  That heat is there for a reason, it shows things are
"wearing in" together....  if it stays hot for too long, you have other
problems... and yes, watch the temp and oil pressure guage....
- -------------------------------------------------------------
Next we have.....

The initial break in time 15 to 30 minutes is for many reasons, one is to
let the cam and lifters reach operating temperature, then you are supposed
to let it sit untill reaching ambient temperature (about 12 hours) this
process is used to harden the cam and lifters.  If you have ever had a flat
lobe on a cam you should know what I am talking about.  Every one has their
own way.
- ---------------------------------------
>Chris adds....<
The cam is already hardened at about 55-60 Rockwell "C" scale (from what I've
seen with our tools used to machine the cams....), and anything you do to it
will not effect it..... Proper heat treat would require the cam to be in a
heat range your motor (and your cooling system) would not tolerate....  Once
you run for the initial break-in (15-25 min.) you can do whatever (does not
require "cooldown period").  Also, one other thing with the heat treat
idea....  to heat treat, you must heat to a temp. just prior to metal
deformation, then cool rapidly (there are ways of doing it to reduce stresses,
etc... but for a "light" discussion we'll say a "rapid cool") to increase
hardness.  To cool slowly actually reduces the hardness of the part....  (BTW,
I know this from materials class, and the fact that we heat treat our cutting
tools at our plant...... daily....)
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Next, we have a question......

What happens with NEW cars?  Like from the factory?  Do they get any
break-in?  I have seen the old Vette factory in St. Louis, and they got
run up to highway speeds in the factory on new engines.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>I pipe in with...<
From what I've seen, the engine plant has test stands where they run, and
break-in the new motor for a certain period of time.  Ensures testing of the
motor for completeness/quality of assembly, and does the break-in.  They do
have testing intervals where the motors are checked, but I'm not sure how
often, etc....

Now I will add some final comments....

For the most part I agree with Ken Snyder's ideas except...  1) I wouldn't run
it as low as 1000 RPM... (except for one period of time... more on that in a
sec..), keep it up between 1800-2500 max...   and 2) Prior to starting I have
the timing light and the distrib. hold down wrench attached to their
respective places...  I then start the car, take a minute to set the timing
right, then proceed to break-in.  Reasoning is this...  start the car for the
first time, and you will run on the choke/high idle, and the time it takes to
set it is nothing (you are ready to do it right away, right?...) and then you
know your timing is correct (or very close to it) while breaking in.

Also, after break-in I will take it somewhat easy for the first hundred, or so
miles... after this you won't gain much by "babying it...."  (if it hasn't
seated by now, it never will, and also.. you don't buy a chain saw to cut
twigs... so go ahead and use it as intended).  Now I don't mean revving the
crap out of it right away, but laying some "proof strips" on occasion would be
fine....(making sure it works...., right?).  Just watch a race car (wether a
car, or motorcycle motor...) do they break-in a motor?  Not for a couple
hundred miles they don't....  It gets up to temp, is adjusted, then used....
If they felt it would gain them power to "break-in" a bike, they would...

Yes, you will gain some gas mileage/efficiency through the first couple
hundred miles (mine have gotten better through approx. 500 miles....), and
power gets better, but just start using it, and it will be fine, and reward
you with lots of fun...

Enough for now... now let's get out there, and have some fun!....

Chris Ruper

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 22:59:19 -0600
From: Oldsmagnet <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Re: :)Ala rednecks wreck alot of GRAND AMS-OLDS content too:)

> Turbo Regal hood(for my 82 wagon)

Will that fit??????????  If so, that would assume the front end would also
fit... which would leave the possibility that the entire front clip would fit.
Which would (at a great stretch of hope) give the possibility that an Olds 2
door Gbody front clip would fit on a G body wagon...  I'm ~still~ looking for
someone who has actually done it!!!

> And a weird OLDS steering wheel
> I haven't seen before.This thing is shaped like a late leather sport
> wheel

Does it look like this?
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner/rkitstrw.jpg

Or does it have four spokes, at roughly 2:00, 4:00, 8:00, and 10:00?
The little Starfires of the mid 70's had those.  Mine came off of a 77 Riviera,
with the centercap off of the Starfire.


Oldsmagnet - Charley Buehner @ Sidney Montana |\      |-------|
mailto:buehner@lyrea.com To mail direct to me |/\|=|  |   |   |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner See my homepage |\ |=|  |   |   |
   \ | / =========================== \ | /    |<||=|  |   |   |
    \|/  List Removal and Guidelines  \|/     |/ |=|  |  / \  |
     V   ===========================   V      |\/|=|  | / | \ |
  http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner/listfaq.htm   |/      |___|___|

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 21:54:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: John M <super442@yahoo.com>
Subject: forgot to mention

OOPS..Anyone interested in a 83(?)Cutlass?$850 or $950 (maybe cheaper
for both)with parts car? Parts car donated V-6 to other car.Looked
like a driver,60/40,ralleys etc.
Cars are in Smyrna Ga,if interested hit me direct.
    Incidently,NO offense towards Alabama on that last post,REDNECKS
are everywhere,and we ALL have tendencys in somebodys eyes!!
      OK Charley,Can't wait to hear from you on this one:)
               John





==
http://members.tripod.com/~SuperOlds/index.html
1985 Cutlass-----T-Tops--307 H.O./3.73 http://www.442.com/mcjunkin.html
1984 Cutlass-Moonroof-307 http://members.tripod.com/~SuperOlds/index-7.html
1982 Cutlass Cruiser Wagon(g-body)--soon to be 403!
 mailto:super442@yahoo.com


_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 14:52:45 -0500 (CDT)
From: George <cutlass@one.camd.lsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Split the list.

> I've came back on Monday to over 300 messages many times. I almost expect
> it anymore. But it's always over the weekend that it picks up...of course.
<snip>

I rather delete some messages I can't browse thru anymore than having the
hassle to read thru the stuff from 3 or more different olds-lists I would
be on anyway! There are too many things common to all oldses and this
list in the way it exists right now is a very very good source on common
questions too. (For ex.: It doesn't  matter how old your car is, when you
ask the people about the order you should restore things. That is
information everybody can use no matter what model/year he owns...)

George

- --------------------------------------------------------------
'68 Cuttlass S Conv.
'77 Lincoln Continental
- --------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 23:09:00 -0600
From: Oldsmagnet <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Re: Split the list. (Please don't)...

> How many "G" body guys are using motors from older cars,
> and gleaning information from owner of that era of car?....
> If anything, people need to lighten up on the "me toos"

Yeah, me too!   :)

Hee hee... Seriously, I agree.  I have run Toro motors in the Rockit
and remember all the helpful information I got from the Toro folks.
Unfortunately, most of our Toro experts ~left~ us.  Some still remain
on both lists, and we get some of their good news.  But most of it
goes unheard by us.  I miss it, but not enough to sign up for two lists.
Granted, the Toro list has considerably less traffic, but I don't have
that much of a ~dedicated~ interest in Toronados ~exclusively~.  So, as
a result, I miss out on all the fun ~they're~ having.  Do we ~really~
need to cut us apart any further?  I have actually been considerring
getting back on the Toro list, even though I don't drive a Toro currently.
I know I'd be constantly trying to remember which messages I'd sent here,
and which ones went there, and end up sending the same race stories twice
to the same place, or something braindead like that.  It'd happen.  I
couldn't begin to imagine how confusing it'd be to have five or six lists
to follow.  Especially when so many of the threads seem to be the same.
I'd have to post all the general questions to ~all~ the lists, and then get
even more responses than normal...  Ooh, that's confusing!  One of the
reasons I've stayed out of the Buick lists (GN, and GS).  That, and I'd have
to change my *sig file, for fear of lynching :)



- --
Oldsmagnet - Charley Buehner @ Sidney Montana |\      |-------|
mailto:buehner@lyrea.com To mail direct to me |/\|=|  |   |   |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner See my homepage |\ |=|  |   |   |
   \ | / =========================== \ | /    |<||=|  |   |   |
    \|/  List Removal and Guidelines  \|/     |/ |=|  |  / \  |
     V   ===========================   V      |\/|=|  | / | \ |
  http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner/listfaq.htm   |/      |___|___|

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 00:11:59 -0500 (CDT)
From: George <cutlass@one.camd.lsu.edu>
Subject: [none]

unsubscribe oldsmobile cutlass@one.camd.lsu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 00:12:58 -0500 (CDT)
From: George <cutlass@one.camd.lsu.edu>
Subject: [none]

sorry about that, going away for a week... wrong address... so long,

george

- --------------------------------------------------------------
'68 Cuttlass S Conv.
'77 Lincoln Continental (like new, everyday driver, FOR SALE!)
- --------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 23:20:21 -0600
From: Oldsmagnet <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Re: forgot to mention

> Anyone interested in a 83(?)Cutlass?$850 or $95 in Smyrna Ga

Hmm...  Do they deliver???   ;)

>     Incidently,NO offense towards Alabama on that last post,REDNECKS
> are everywhere,and we ALL have tendencys in somebodys eyes!!
>       OK Charley,Can't wait to hear from you on this one:)

No kidding!  Don't worry, the Rednecks wreck all the Grand Dammits up here,
too!  No concern to me, since I kinda hate those cars...  They drive OK,
sometimes, but I sure hate working on 'em.  Seats are somewhat comfortable to
~sit~ in, but getting in and out of them is a pain in the a$$, literally!

"honey, come move this transmission so I can take a bath!"

Ever wonder if Disneyland is simply a large people trap ran by a mouse?

Oldsmagnet - Charley Buehner @ Sidney Montana |\      |-------|
mailto:buehner@lyrea.com To mail direct to me |/\|=|  |   |   |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner See my homepage |\ |=|  |   |   |
   \ | / =========================== \ | /    |<||=|  |   |   |
    \|/  List Removal and Guidelines  \|/     |/ |=|  |  / \  |
     V   ===========================   V      |\/|=|  | / | \ |
  http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner/listfaq.htm   |/      |___|___|

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 08:22:15 +0300
From: Jukka.Kujala@outokumpu.com
Subject: olds parts in CA

Hey everybody

Anybody could give me advice about olds parts near Hesperia, CA. (
partstores, junkyards etc.)
I€m going to be there for two weeks at the beginning of Sept.
Any classic car meetings, e.g in Pomona, at that time?

Jukka
Finland
Europe

olds dynamic 88 €63

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 01:28:39 EDT
From: <BIGJERMES@aol.com>
Subject: turbo regal hood on cutlass?

In a message dated 98-07-14 00:32:47 EDT, you write:

<< Turbo Regal hood(for my 82 wagon) >>
will those turbo regal hoods fit cutlasses?  i know where a '78 turbo regal
is, and i want that hood on my '78 cutlass.... will it fit do you think?  i
was told it wouldnt

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 01:34:27 EDT
From: <DYeager535@aol.com>
Subject: Re: :)Ala rednecks wreck alot of GRAND AMS-OLDS content too:)

In a message dated 98-07-14 01:11:00 EDT, you write:

<< If so, that would assume the front end would also
 fit... which would leave the possibility that the entire front clip would
fit.
 Which would (at a great stretch of hope) give the possibility that an Olds 2
 door Gbody front clip would fit on a G body wagon...  >>

     If someone can tell me what a normal Cutlass Supreme two door is called
(fastback or notchback) I can check interchange for at least 78-79. I can tell
you that the fenders on the SW are the same as the Fastback Cutlass'. If the
fenders are the same, the body itself has the same mounting points, and
everything else the fender bolts to would be in the same place....Dorian

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 23:35:43 -0600
From: Oldsmagnet <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Re: turbo regal hood on cutlass?

i know where a '78 turbo regal
> is, and i want that hood on my '78 cutlass.... will it fit do you think?

No.  Unless you keep the entire front clip from the Regal.  Not sure about
78-80's, though.  81-87 Buick/Olds G body doors will interchange, so the body
lines there are correct.  Anything ahead of that won't line up by itself.
Fenders are different, hood lines are different, header panel is different,
bumper is different...  All are ~way~ different.  But will interchange as a
~complete~ unit.  (supposedly)

Oldsmagnet - Charley Buehner @ Sidney Montana |\      |-------|
mailto:buehner@lyrea.com To mail direct to me |/\|=|  |   |   |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner See my homepage |\ |=|  |   |   |
   \ | / =========================== \ | /    |<||=|  |   |   |
    \|/  List Removal and Guidelines  \|/     |/ |=|  |  / \  |
     V   ===========================   V      |\/|=|  | / | \ |
  http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner/listfaq.htm   |/      |___|___|

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 22:44:23 -0700
From: Greg Rollin <supercars@transport.com>
Subject: Vacation

Vacation time.  Supercars Unlimited will be closed Thursday July 16th
and Friday July 17th.  Back to normal on Monday the 20th.  During this
time you can always fax us your order (503-244-9639).  Or leave an
e-mail message.  Sorry for any inconvenience.

Have you checked out our web site yet?

- --
Greg Rollin
Supercars Unlimited (Where Cutlass/4-4-2 is ALL we do!) 503-244-8249
http://www.supercarsunlimited.com
E-mail: supercars@transport.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 02:16:43 EDT
From: <DYeager535@aol.com>
Subject: Re: turbo regal hood on cutlass?

In a message dated 98-07-14 02:12:28 EDT, you write:

<< will those turbo regal hoods fit cutlasses?  i know where a '78 turbo regal
 is, and i want that hood on my '78 cutlass.... will it fit do you think?  i
 was told it wouldnt >>

     All of the different GM divisions used different "lines" on the hoods,
for the 78-88 cars. Buick has the raised lines, Olds, lowered lines. The lines
I refer to are the body lines, which start at the header panel, and extend up
the hood. They would probably FIT, but not match up line-wise.   Dorian

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 23:55:43 -0700
From: Erik Badzinski <erikreb@netbridge.net>
Subject: Edelbrock manifold and carb question.

Hi all,

My brother in law told me of how on his '70 Cutlass Supreme he had the
Edelbrock Performer Manifold and Performer 600 CFM Carb on it.  I wanted
to use the same setup for my '72, but the Edelbrock Techs say it can't
be done.  Can it?

Also, looking through Summit Racing catalog, I noticed they had those
combo deals that offered different manifolds with a Holley Carb for a
cheaper price.  Do they have an Olds package because they didnt have one
listed.

Thanks to all,

Erik B.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 02:30:59 -0500
From: "Peter Landowski" <PETTRIX@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Running hot!!!

The timing has been checked and it is at about 10 degress at idle. The
front air dam is there as is the flaps on the wheel wells.
 The fan clutch on there now is a thermo-controlled clutch that came off
the 350. I went to Pep Boys to get a Hayden Non-Thermo clutch. The guy at
the counter said that they don't make a HD fan clutch for my application.
All they have is one for a 455. I will put that on today.
 The fan on there now is a 5 blade fan, where do I go about getting a 7
blade fan, also will they fit without any modifications. The radiator is a
4 core from GDI (or something like that).


- ----------
> From: Thomas Martin <Thomas_Martin@css.mot.com>
> To: 'oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca'
> Subject: RE:  Running hot!!!
> Date: Monday, July 13, 1998 2:10 PM
>
> Check the timing, if too low it will force gobs of heat into the
> block/cyl walls instead of making horsepressure.   Same goes with slow
> advance.
>
> If coolant moves too fast it will run warm.  I use Non-AC pulleys on my
> 70 400 in my 80 Turbo Trans AM.  Wonderful thing, free HP from factory
> parts!  (small crank, large (8in or so) water pump pulley!)
>
> Is the front air dam missing?  that is a MUST HAVE, it will never
> maintain temp no matter what you do if it is missing.  I have seen
> people throw away tons of $$ to find that out.
>
> Flaps on the control arms, you DO have them right?  They are on there
> now aren't they?  Good, wouldn't want the high pressure from the wheels
> to create a high pressure under the hood to impede airflow through the
> radiator now wouldn't we?
>
> Remember the basics, air moves from high pressure to low, so know that
> we will pound this into our heads, we will never overheat again.......
>
> Is the fan clutch bad?  HD cooling called for a 7 blade fan and a HD fan
> clutch.  I used a HD fan clutch from a HD F#rd truck.  Nice of them to
> make them fit Olds too.  Funny, the fan clutch was nearly identical to
> my Pontiac Turbo 301, but the holes are a little narrower in the Pontiac
> V8.  The 301 Turbo had a 7 blade, the "normal" cars got 6, some got 5.
>
> I think the HD fan clutch was from a 460 truck.
>
> I got my new Modine 4 core radiator listed for a SD455 and Turbo 301 at
> Autozone in 1991 for $220.  NEW.  Should be close, Autozone can't screw
> up the radiator from Modine unless they open it!  I do not know if it
> will fit any Olds chassis, but I think it will.  The 78-88 cars (G-Body)
> at least.  I had a radiator from a Olds Cutlass wagon diesel and it fir
> fine.
>
> The 301 Turbo has a cooling system capacity of 26 quarts.  Rivals nearly
> everything in any car!
>
> Best of luck!
>
> Thomas Martin
> 85 Cutlass Supreme Rocket 350 CCC
> 91 Bonneville LE 3800
> 80 Turbo Trans AM 400 Pontiac
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 00:56:46 -0600
From: "Igor" <todorovb@cadvision.com>
Subject: Re: Break-in Procedure.... (Long, but worth it)

Thanks a lot guys.  I will fire it up and get back to you in the next
couple of days.  Igor.

- ----------
> From: CRuper1@aol.com
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Break-in Procedure.... (Long, but worth it)
> Date: Monday, July 13, 1998 10:51 PM
>
> Ok, there's been alot of talk about break-in procedure in the last day or
so,
> and alot of god points made, let's all go through this....
>
> First....
> At 06:48 AM 7/13/1998 -0400, you wrote:
> >        You must first fire the engine and run it to 1800-2200 RPM for
15
> >minutes. This has to be done so you break the cam and lifters in. They
need
> >the oil splash that's there at these RPMs. After that you can shut it
down
> >and get ready to tune. It's best to start the car up with ONLY water in
the
> >radiator and NO thermostat. A fresh engine has hot spots that could
cause
> >overheating. Once all the brak in is done, put the thermostat and your
> >cooant mixture in and enjoy.
>
> I'd have to disagree about the no-thermostat deal; this may prevent the
> engine from getting up to proper operating temperature on that break-in
> run. Also, prime your oil pump with a 5/16 socket welded or lock-tited to
a
> socket-extension run by a drill, rotating your motor as you do this so
you
> expose the oil journals.
>
> Also make sure your temp gauge is hooked up and operating, so you can
shut
> her down if she gets too hot (don't be surprised at 220' temps, though).
> Also make sure there are no open vacuum lines, which could cause the
motor
> to run lean (and too hot).
> ----------------------------------------------------
> >Chris adds.....<
> I'd agree, first with the idea of running 1500-2500 RPM for a period of
15-25
> minutes (current cam cam with instruction saying so, and so have past
> ones...).  There's a reason... the faster RPM, the more the lifter
"glides (or
> in this case "jumps") over the cam lobe.  This is supposed to be better
than
> letting it run at idle (this is from the cam mfg'r.  It probably also has
> something to do with higher oil pressure for lubrication.  Also, you
should be
> pre-lubing at assembly time, and then using a drill to drive the oil pump
to
> get pressure though the system.  Also, I wouldn't run without the
> thermostat... it is there for a purpose, and leaving it out won't heat up
the
> engine properly.  That heat is there for a reason, it shows things are
> "wearing in" together....  if it stays hot for too long, you have other
> problems... and yes, watch the temp and oil pressure guage....
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> Next we have.....
>
> The initial break in time 15 to 30 minutes is for many reasons, one is to
> let the cam and lifters reach operating temperature, then you are
supposed
> to let it sit untill reaching ambient temperature (about 12 hours) this
> process is used to harden the cam and lifters.  If you have ever had a
flat
> lobe on a cam you should know what I am talking about.  Every one has
their
> own way.
> ---------------------------------------
> >Chris adds....<
> The cam is already hardened at about 55-60 Rockwell "C" scale (from what
I've
> seen with our tools used to machine the cams....), and anything you do to
it
> will not effect it..... Proper heat treat would require the cam to be in
a
> heat range your motor (and your cooling system) would not tolerate....
Once
> you run for the initial break-in (15-25 min.) you can do whatever (does
not
> require "cooldown period").  Also, one other thing with the heat treat
> idea....  to heat treat, you must heat to a temp. just prior to metal
> deformation, then cool rapidly (there are ways of doing it to reduce
stresses,
> etc... but for a "light" discussion we'll say a "rapid cool") to increase
> hardness.  To cool slowly actually reduces the hardness of the part....
(BTW,
> I know this from materials class, and the fact that we heat treat our
cutting
> tools at our plant...... daily....)
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Next, we have a question......
>
> What happens with NEW cars?  Like from the factory?  Do they get any
> break-in?  I have seen the old Vette factory in St. Louis, and they got
> run up to highway speeds in the factory on new engines.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >I pipe in with...<
> >From what I've seen, the engine plant has test stands where they run,
and
> break-in the new motor for a certain period of time.  Ensures testing of
the
> motor for completeness/quality of assembly, and does the break-in.  They
do
> have testing intervals where the motors are checked, but I'm not sure how
> often, etc....
>
> Now I will add some final comments....
>
> For the most part I agree with Ken Snyder's ideas except...  1) I
wouldn't run
> it as low as 1000 RPM... (except for one period of time... more on that
in a
> sec..), keep it up between 1800-2500 max...   and 2) Prior to starting I
have
> the timing light and the distrib. hold down wrench attached to their
> respective places...  I then start the car, take a minute to set the
timing
> right, then proceed to break-in.  Reasoning is this...  start the car for
the
> first time, and you will run on the choke/high idle, and the time it
takes to
> set it is nothing (you are ready to do it right away, right?...) and then
you
> know your timing is correct (or very close to it) while breaking in.
>
> Also, after break-in I will take it somewhat easy for the first hundred,
or so
> miles... after this you won't gain much by "babying it...."  (if it
hasn't
> seated by now, it never will, and also.. you don't buy a chain saw to cut
> twigs... so go ahead and use it as intended).  Now I don't mean revving
the
> crap out of it right away, but laying some "proof strips" on occasion
would be
> fine....(making sure it works...., right?).  Just watch a race car
(wether a
> car, or motorcycle motor...) do they break-in a motor?  Not for a couple
> hundred miles they don't....  It gets up to temp, is adjusted, then
used....
> If they felt it would gain them power to "break-in" a bike, they would...
>
> Yes, you will gain some gas mileage/efficiency through the first couple
> hundred miles (mine have gotten better through approx. 500 miles....),
and
> power gets better, but just start using it, and it will be fine, and
reward
> you with lots of fun...
>
> Enough for now... now let's get out there, and have some fun!....
>
> Chris Ruper

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 01:04:36 -0600
From: "Igor" <todorovb@cadvision.com>
Subject: Re: lowering a delta

Yup, even with the 255s it still looks silly.  Too much room.  One way to
efectivley drop the car is to cut the coils.  You can do it 1 or .5"at the
time to get to what you like.  Cutting coils will make them stiffer, so it
will corner better.  I tried with an old pair of stock coils on my Delta.
The car looked great and was firm, but I will do this again with new
var.rate HD coils which should make it much better.  Also, if you don't
have it, get a sway bar and some coil-over-shock kit to put small coils
over your shock.  That should give you much better cornering and ride.
Igor.

- ----------
> From: HOFFAX181@aol.com
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: lowering a delta
> Date: Monday, July 13, 1998 4:18 PM
>
> i just put new rims and tires on my car don't orry not low profiles in
back i
> have 255/60/15
> up front I have 225/60/15 on my 84 delta 88 royale tires look good but I
think
> there is to much room between the top of the tire and top of wheel well
with
> these tires you can easily
> the frame and the entire wheel well is there a way to drop it down about
1 or
> 2 inches and tighten up the suspension so i don't have to slow down to
about
> 10mph to make a corner shocks are brand new on the car

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 05:34:31 -0000
From: "Lloyd W. Culp" <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Re: catorgorizing olds list

I couldn't agree more.  The division of the talent and personalities of this
fine list would be a loss to everyone.  I started on the Olds list and I am
on the two lists now.  I wouldn't mind if they were combined again.

Time constraints have gotten me to lurk rather than do much else, but I
enjoy everyone and the information.  It it were only the information, then I
would drop both lists.  The members are the life of the list and keep me
coming back.

Bill Culp    bculp@HiWAAY.net
Decatur, Alabama
'62 Jetfire - '67 Toronado - '68 442 convertible



>> We could come up with some categories>
>> what's everyone think?
>
>I like the idea, except for a few problems.

<snip>

Many moons ago, we had
>some extremely useful members on the list, and added great information,
laughs,
>and personalities.  We lost 'em... <sniff> ...to the Toro list.  Anyone
remember
>the "66 Toro and Mike?"  The Toro list is a good forum, like ours, of
course,
>but it made for some more segregation.
>
>In the past, it's been basically concluded that the best method is simply a
>clear, consise subject line.  You have to rely on your own two eyes as a
filter,
>but it's much more accurate than letting the computer decide which ones
you'll
>enjoy.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 07:21:14 -0400
From: Mark Hahn <mahahn@fuse.net>
Subject: Re: catorgorizing olds list

<HTML>
It seems to me that this list is a microcosm of real life. Let's celebrate
diversity.
<BR>Split the list to prove how different we are. Certainly the 442 guys
are nothing like the Delta guys. The H/O guys are nothing like the F-85
guys. With all this diversity how could we have anything in common with
each other?

<P>Maybe just one word........<B><FONT SIZE=+3>OLDSMOBILE</FONT></B>
<BR>&nbsp;
<BR>just an observation

<P>Mark Hahn
<BR>75D88C
<BR><B></B>&nbsp;</HTML>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 07:45:53 -0500
From: "Cote, Jeffrey"
<IMCEAEX-_O=MCCO_OU=MORGAN_CN=RECIPIENTS_CN=M947AIM@morganco.com> Subject: 
NOTE:
Split the list.

> On Mon, 13 Jul 1998, Andrew Metcalfe wrote:
> > I've come back from the weekend to find more then 300 messages had
> gone
> > through... This is rediculous, the amount of content is unmanagable.
> <snip>
>
Has anyone yet realized that we've nearly doubled the number of postings
solely
by going back and forth on this issue, with everyone putting int their
".02 cents".

MY .02 cents! (hey, I'm not perfect either!)
- --Jeff

Jeff Cote
Worcester, MA
69 Cutlass S conv
70  Cutlass Supreme conv
72 Cutlass Supreme h/t

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 07:17:14 -0500
From: "Johnson, Sam" <SAJOHNSON@usds.com>
Subject: R 12 TO R 134

Has anybody done the conversion from R 12 to R 134?  What is the procedure
for this process?
======================
Sam E. Johnson, JR.
>  <mailto:Cutlass403@ameritech.net> Cutlass403@ameritech.net
>1971 Cutlass S 455
>Westside! Chitown IL
11 Wins 4 Losses
======================

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 08:26:34 EDT
From: <SOMMERVLLE@aol.com>
Subject: Re: 72 Parts for sale(442)

What does he want for the whole car? and where is he located? Thanks Chris

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 05:29:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Stefan Gadecki <sgadecki@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Edelbrock manifold and carb question.

 Summit has olds stuff, they just don't list it.  If you call them and
ask for it, they'll most likely have it.

Hope this helps,
          stefan
          sgadecki@yahoo.com
          1970 Cutlass 'S' Holiday Coupe



_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 08:39:21 -0400
From: tchurchill@draper.com (Timothy A. Churchill)
Subject: Re: Most Underpowered Factory Produced GM Car

Whelp, I figure I have an anecdote or two here...

My first brand-new car was a... (bows head in shame) '82 Camaro Berlinetta.

OK, it looked purty; it was white with a custom soft targa roof, just like
the red one in the old show "Simon & Simon".  But its performance certainly
didn't match its appearnce.  It had the ol' 2.8L V6, rated at a whopping
105hp.  Now, Camaros aren't particularly light things, and this one had
a couple of extra pieces of frame to offset the flexibility of cutting
its roof for the targa.  Top observed speed was 105/100 (targa on/off).
0-60 was *not* impressive.  I dragged my grandpa in his '80 Seville, and
he completely dusted me.  I only kept the car another 6 mos...

(BTW, I have heard that for 1982, the fastest car for Chevy -- and possibly
the entire GM line-up --  0-60 anyways was... ready for this?
The Citation X-11!!!  Ewwww!  :{P )

Non GM:  I had a '67 Barracuda convetible at one time, which came with
a Slant-6 and 3 speed column shift.   There probably wasn't very many made
like that, but it definitely fell in the "Rare But Not Desirable" category.
Top down, I could just reach 70 mph, if I was going downhill with a tail wind.
0-60 times were clocked with a calendar.
But it always started, even on the coldest N.E. winter days...



Tim Churchill        OCA #30327           Framingham, MA
- ------------------------------------------------------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 08:50:11 EDT
From: <JonKrisInc@aol.com>
Subject: door panel replacements

Just replaced my seat covers with vinyl. Not original, but looks really good,
Bought extra material for the side panels, but the "cardboardy" stuff is
starting to break apart. Any ideas as to what I can use instead? Of course if
anyone has panels for sale, I'd be mighty interested.
TIA
Bruce
75 Delta 88 conv.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 08:58:29 EDT
From: <JonKrisInc@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Split the list.

In a message dated 98-07-14 00:10:51 EDT, you write:

<< THAT IS NOT A BAD IDEA BUT I THINK 60-66     66-72    73-80   81 TO PRESENT
IS
 A MUCH BETTER IDEA.  69-72 ARE VERY MUCH SIMULAR CARS. JUST MY OPINION
THOUGH. >>

Have to disagree. I've learned a lot about typical car problems that occur on
matter what year your car is. Sharing information raises other questions that
create new answers, etc. It's not perfect, but it works for me. Let's keep it
as it is.
Bruce
75 Delta 88 Conv.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 08:01:38 -0500
From: Thomas Martin <Thomas_Martin@css.mot.com>
Subject: Uh,  Peg, Everybody.....(SOM Saga)

On the brake pedal issue, I have had it in 2 different ways.

1.  Master Cylinder bad.  fluid passing up the piston due to torn seal
or worn out cylinder.  Will pump up, but will start to go back down as
you press or hold the car.  First noticed with wife driving and she kept
coming up on people fast at stop signs.  Then when I drove car I noticed
the brake pedal slowly heading to the floor when I was at a stop sign.
But it would pump up ok.  The car never lost fluid like this.  Cast Iron
master cyl are prone to this.  Aluminum are much more resistant to the
corrosion.

2.  I, (years ago) as I never replaced calipers before, forgot (didn't
know) there was copper washers on the banjo fittings at the caliper, it
stuck to the old caliper, so I was leaking fluid out as I hit the brake
pedal hard, enough I did not have the problem at bleeding or at light
braking, but on the highway, uh oh....

Try this.  Open drivers door, (stopped, please....) stick head under car
and press brake pedal hard all the way down.  Look for the fluid leak.
If none, look at bad master cyl, if you find the leak, then go there and
fix it there.  You should not be able to hurt anything even with both
feet on pedal.  If you do, it needed replacing anyway!

Calipers are easy to rebuild, I was suprised.  Anyone can do.  Don't
fear them.  There is the piston (handle carefully), the piston seal, and
the piston boot.  That is it.  Keep it clean and it will do well.  If
there is too much corrosion in the piston bore then you will need a bore
or replacement.  I would recommend replacement then unless you can get a
new piston that fits.

Best of Braking!

Thomas Martin
85 Cutlass Supreme Rocket 350 CCC
91 Bonneville LE 3800
80 Turbo Trans AM 400 Pontiac

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 08:11:29 -0500
From: Thomas Martin <Thomas_Martin@css.mot.com>
Subject: Brake Fluid

Got a question.  Yesterday at Autozone I saw "Synthetic Brake Fluid".
Ok, if memory serves, DOT 5 is synthetic, (like you pour on paint, wash
off, and it is OK) and DOT 5 has much higher DRY temp boiling point.
The problem with DOT 5 is it has an affinity for water.  So it drops
much faster to the wet point, but still higher than DOT 3 or 4.  And it
is NOT compatible with DOT 3 or DOT 4.

Ok, this new stuff, I think Valvoline makes it, under the Syntron name,
is synthetic, but not sure compatiblity with DOT 3, 4 or 5.  Has anyone
heard?

I have heard DOT 5 has better braking power as well, at least better
feel.  Never used it, the US Army does on everything that has a
hydraulic brake system, and that included HMMWV (Hummer for you
civilians <g>)and CUCV ("CUK VEE" Read Chevy Full size Blazer and 1.25
ton pickup w/ and w/o dualies).  Why would DOT 5 not be good for a daily
driven car?

Thomas Martin
85 Cutlass Supreme Rocket 350 CCC
91 Bonneville LE 3800
80 Turbo Trans AM 400 Pontiac

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 08:23:19 -0400
From: "Gregory Zimmerman" <zimmermangm@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Edelbrock manifold and carb question.

>My brother in law told me of how on his '70 Cutlass Supreme he had
the
>Edelbrock Performer Manifold and Performer 600 CFM Carb on it.  I
wanted
>to use the same setup for my '72, but the Edelbrock Techs say it
can't
>be done.  Can it?


Yes it will, I'm running the same setup on my '71 cutlass.  The reason
they said it won't fit is because the throttle arm on the carb hits
the EGR block-off plate.  the solution is to use a 1" spacer under the
carb, and to also bend the bottom of the throttle arm to clear the EGR
top.  I also used a dremel tool to grind a little aluminum away so the
throttle return spring didn't bind up.  It's easy.  Also, a drop base
aircleaner doesn't fit on my carb because of the braided line and
aluminum fitting going to the carb.  No worries though, with a flat
base and a 4" high K&N filter, it still fits under the hood.

A universal chrome throttle cable bracket from Summit is also nice to
have.

>Also, looking through Summit Racing catalog, I noticed they had those
>combo deals that offered different manifolds with a Holley Carb for a
>cheaper price.  Do they have an Olds package because they didnt have
one
>listed.

Just my opionon, but I hate Holley Carbs.  They are great for racing
and can be adjusted a zillion different ways, but they are a pain to
use on the street.  The Edelbrock carbs are great, no gaskets below
the fuel level, they don' t leak.  Easy to adjust.

Summit sells every part that the manufacturer's make, so if it's out
there, they will have it.  Example, I got all my Olds stuff from them
such as Mallory distributor, Crane cam, comp. Cams roller rockers,
valve springs, intake, etc... and none of it was listed in the
catalog.  You just have to ask.

good luck,
Greg

>Thanks to all,
>
>Erik B.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 08:45:57 -0500
From: "Mitch Warren" <mitchntx@flash.net>
Subject: OT - Disk crash - how do I unsub from Olds digest?

Going on vacation and can't find the documentation

E-mail me privately at

mitchntx@flash.net

thanks

Mitch

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 09:49:59 -0400
From: D Frizsell <dfrizsell@WCUVAX1.WCU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Split the list.

> >...There are too many things common to all oldses and this
> list in the way it exists right now is a very very good source on common
> questions too...<


Here, here! Even though the posts can be high in count sometimes, I wouldn't
change a thing! I'd rather push a delete button than navigate several other
"split list"

D-man

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 06:55:14 -0700
From: "Chris Sparks (aka Mr. Ada)" <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Subject: Re: :)Ala rednecks wreck alot of GRAND AMS-OLDS content too:)

- --------------075F46FBCCBCFE5493F22CFC
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Oldsmagnet wrote:

> Does it look like this?
> http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner/rkitstrw.jpg

Compare it to this
Charleyhttp://www2.catalina-inter.net/~mrada/olds/scarlet/scar3.jpg

> Or does it have four spokes, at roughly 2:00, 4:00, 8:00, and 10:00?
> The little Starfires of the mid 70's had those.  Mine came off of a 77
Riviera, > with the centercap off of the Starfire.

Do you think mine is a late model steering wheel?

- --
Chris Sparks
68 442 SC - Frosty
68 442 HT - Scarlet
68 442 HT - Saffron
82 DRB    - Dr. "B"
http://www.catalina-inter.net/mrada



- --------------075F46FBCCBCFE5493F22CFC
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML>
Oldsmagnet wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>Does it look like this?
<BR><A
HREF="http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner/rkitstrw.jpg
">http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner/
rkitstrw.jpg</A></BLOCKQUOTE> Compare it to this
Charleyhttp://www2.catalina-inter.net/~mrada/olds/scarlet/scar3.jpg <BLOCKQUOTE
TYPE=CITE>Or does it have four spokes, at roughly 2:00, 4:00, 8:00, and 10:00?
<BR>The little Starfires of the mid 70's had those.&nbsp; Mine came off of a 77
Riviera, <BR>with the centercap off of the Starfire.</BLOCKQUOTE> Do you think
mine is a late model steering wheel? <PRE>--&nbsp; Chris Sparks 68 442 SC -
Frosty 68 442 HT - Scarlet 68 442 HT - Saffron 82 DRB&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; - Dr.
"B" <A
HREF="http://www.catalina-inter.net/mrada
">http://www.catalina-inter.net/mrada</
A></PRE> &nbsp;</HTML>

- --------------075F46FBCCBCFE5493F22CFC--

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 09:01:36 -0500
From: David L Wyatt <WYATT_DAVID_L@lilly.com>
Subject: Re: Brake Fluid (long)

I have used DOT 5 silicone brake fluid in my Olds since 1984.  The car had
been setting for 7 years to that point and the brake system had seized.  I
rebuilt the whole system, master cyl,  both calipers, both rear wheel cyl, and
replaced all of the rubber brake lines with new.  We flushed the system with
the silicone fluid and other than top off the fluid LAST SUMMER, I have had no
problems.  Silicone brake fluid displaces moisture while regular fluid
attracts water.  One of the leading motorcycle magazines did a test a few
years ago where they actually added water to the silicone fluid in a brake
system.  They went back later to check and found no trace of the water.  It
had been expelled through the porosity of the rubber hoses the same way water
gets into the system with regular fluid.  My car sets a lot especially the
winter and I would have expected to have had brake trouble by now with regular
brake fluid.  The DOT 5 silicone has been trouble free for 14 years.  (Geez
that makes me sound old!)  The only thing to look out for is the seal on the
master cyl cover.  The silicone is slippery and will get past the seal if it
is not better than good.  My cousin has used it on his ch*velle show car for
15 years (it gets driven 200 mi. or less a year) with no problems other than
his master cyl cover.  He replaced the seal and took care of the problem.  You
can replace your old fluid with it and not rebuild everything by using it to
thoroughly flush the system.  It is a little pricey but a value in the long
run.

Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 07:01:42 -0700
From: "Chris Sparks (aka Mr. Ada)" <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Subject: Re: Split the list. (Please don't)...

I really didn't want to get into this discussion, however, here I am.  I use
Netscape 4.04 which
has a facility to filter incoming mail messages.  If we all agreed to some kind
of indicator to
delineate a potential area of interest then all other message could be filtered
to Trash.

Just an idea.....

- --
Chris Sparks
68 442 SC - Frosty
68 442 HT - Scarlet
68 442 HT - Saffron
82 DRB    - Dr. "B"
http://www.catalina-inter.net/mrada

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 09:59:48 -0400
From: Bill Gochenour <gochenow@stjohns.edu>
Subject: Florida list subscribers !

Are there any list subscribers located in Florida, in particular,
Orlando or the surrounding areas? Please, e-mail me off list.

Thanks!

- --

Bill !

1986 Cutlass 442 "The Perfect 10"             _           _       ___
     Mobile Electronics Show Car            /  |        /  |    /  _  \
1983 Hurst/Olds 15th Anniversary Edition  /    |      /    |   |_|   | |
     Oldsmobile 100th Centennial # 2218 /  / | |_   /  / | |_      /  /
1993 Chevrolet Lumina Z-34             |_____   _| |_____   _|   /  /__
1997 Chevrolet Monte Carlo Z-34		     |_|         |_|   
|_______|

		* * * * * * * * *
		* COMING  SOON  * --------> www.3STICKS.com
		* * * * * * * * *

	http://area51.stjohns.edu/~toychest     (updated 7/9/98)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 10:14:50 -0500
From: dgerow@student.stonehill.edu (Daniel R. Gerow)
Subject: Don't split the list

For what it's worth, I would vote for not splitting the list.  Now, I
know I am not the most active list member, but the amount of information
that I glean off of all of you is incredible.  To further that, I own a
'69 442 however, I am a big fan of all Olds, and most older vehicles in
general.  Therefore, I like to learn as much as possible about as much
as possible (if that makes sense).  I agree with most list members who
say that would rather receive 100's of emails and hit delete than
navigate through numerous lists.  Again, for what it's worth, that's my
2 cents.

Daniel R. Gerow

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 10:45:58 -0400
From: Robert Dye <robbyd@gte.net>
Subject: reveal moulding.

need chrome reveal moulding (top well) for '67 CS convert.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 09:50:20 -0500
From: "Smetana, Christopher" <csmetana@dowagro.com>
Subject: W-31 tranny governor...verdict

Well folks, I'm gonna make you sweat a little bit before giving you the
final verdict.
I tried Dr. Bob's suggestion last night.  I first checked a couple books
I had to see what they say as far as removal, cleaning, inspecting of
the tranny governor.  These books are the Turbo 350 book, don't remember
the exact title but it's similar to the turbo 400 book, and my Chilton's
manual.  They both said use a screwdriver to slide the wire off the
cover, remove the governor cover, it's a press fit, slide the governor
out of its bore while rotating it.  Well, I looked under the car to find
the governor and son of a beach I'm gonna have to move the transmission
crossmember to get at it.  So I unbolted the transmission from
crossmember and crossmember from frame, slide it out of the way and
lowered the tranny about an inch below where it bolts to the crossmember
to get the room I needed.  (Note to people with floor shifted cars, I'm
assuming dual gates are in the same boat, but the shifter cable will be
in the way and it will have to be removed at the transmission)  Boy I'll
tell you that cover was press fit alright, I had trouble removing it.
So trying to get at it from a third angle I finally popped the cover off
(have a container handy to catch that ATF, no much just enough to make a
little mess)  It was a piece of cake from here on out.  I cleaned the
governor, inspected it to make sure the valve moves freely, got my
feeler gage out to check intake and exhaust port clearances, then coated
it with new ATF and reinstalled.  Then reinstalled everything else in
order of removal.  So I start the car up (for those that remember from
yesterday, I stated that I have what sounds like a bearing going bad
until to the motor warms up, then it goes away, well it didn't make that
sound tonight)  So I start the car up and check for leaks, everything
seems OK, so I take it out on the road.  Shifts into 2nd fine, I then
put my foot into it to see what happens and it still seems to be
slipping in 3rd gear.  Although I'm not quite sure I actually got the
car into 3rd gear last night, I had trouble getting her above/to 40mph.
So, I'm gonna try one last thing tonight, unless someone has any other
suggestions, and do the old lacquer thinner trick.  But it looks like
she won't be making the trip to Springfield tomorrow, but I will break
out the video camera tonight and shoot some video of the car moving and
if by some chance someone wants to see the car, I can 'roll the tape'

A side note, if anyone plans on attending the Olds show in St. Louis on
Sun Sept 13, I don't see any reason why I can't get the tranny rebuilt
in time to drive her there and possibly to Carlisle Mid-West in
Bloomington, IL the day before.

Chris Smetana
Terre Haute, IN
work: csmetana@dowagro.com

1969 W-31 driveable, but no 3rd gear
1969 4-4-2 parts car
plus others

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #1367
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