Please respond to oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
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cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #1334


oldsmobile-digest       Saturday, June 27 1998       Volume 01 : Number 1334



Re: 1A 330 motor
Re: museum visit & storm tips.
Re: Officers of the law question
Re: 85 Cutlass?
Re: Tranny Rebuild... (long)
Re: FULLY Variable Ignition was Cam Bank Angle Saga.
Re: 'C' Heads
rear brake shoes not wearing
Re: 260 Die&sell
Re[2]: rechrome plastic
Re: rear brake shoes not wearing
Re: rear brake shoes not wearing
260Dx & other torq monsters
Re: '86 Salon/grille
Re: Officers of the law question
RE: Re:85 Cutlass?
Re: '86 307-9 A/C
illegal racing "penalties"
Re: Brake Shoes: which is which
Re: Brake Shoes: which is which
Re: electric choke hookup
Still looking... really need h*lp
Re: A/C Diagnosis
60's Toro For Sale
I NEED Landau roof trim pieces.
Re: Tranny Rebuild... (long)
Re: rear brake shoes not wearing
Casting #s, Stamp Codes and ID #s  - Buy these!
Gold & chrome 15x7 SSII's
Igor's timing
Re: Tranny Rebuild... (long)
Re: 260 Die&sell
Angel busted on bandwidth
by the numbers book
J motor?!
Dashpot Explanation
BB  intake
Re: Igor's timing
W31 pistons avail
setting timing
Re: Brake Shoes: which is which
Re: Lockup rear brakes on G-Body
307 Ex. Manifold...
Re: Lockup rear brakes on G-Body
Re: Lockup rear brakes on G-Body

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 00:26:19 EDT
From: <KarlAune@aol.com>
Subject: Re: 1A 330 motor

Sometime ago, I trilled:

<< Block ID:  "381917   1A"
 with "3" cylinder heads.
 Can anyone confirm the existence of the "1A" block?
 Was this a factory replacement/remanufacture?  >>

and recieved this as a reply:

<< =================  >>

(which usually indicates a response is forthcoming from C.B.W.)

<< Sounds just like a typical 1966 motor. >>


First, #3 heads, not a prob, they are in FAQ as 1966.

The reason I asked was that block designation "1A" is NOT in the FAQ.
Listed are:

"1"     1964       330
"2"     1965       330
"2"     1968-70   350
"3"    (no date)   330
....

So, if "1A" was a 1966 block, what was "3"?
And were they both 330's?

While this may be self-evident to the Rocket Scientist, some others could wish
for more information.

:-)}

Especially since the "2A" did not appear until 1976! (per FAQ)

Thanks in advance.


Karl Aune and Soylent Ocean Mist
1965 Dynamic 88 Celebrity Sedan

Members; OCA, IVOC

KarlAune@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/KarlAune/rage.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 22:33:57 -0600
From: Charley Buehner <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Re: museum visit & storm tips.

Oh, BTW, has anyone considered lashing a couple of air matresses to
> the top of thier car when they hear a hail warning?......No, seriously.

I've often parked right up against the house in big storms, if possible.  
Figure
if the house collapses on it, there might be a chance of the landlord's
liability coverring it!  I have strapped heavy blankets over tops of my cars in
the past.  Kinda a pain, and I think the air mattress would be slick.. Just tie
'er down and ~then~ air it up!  Too bad I don't have about 30 air mattresses...
Might pick some up next time I go to Havre.  Talk about air bag protection...
Might look funny driving around, but at least the fenders will still be 
straight
when I come back...  Can anyone say...  "BUMPER CARS!!!"  :)


- --
The Oldsmobile Magnet -- Charley Buehner@Sidney Montana
mailto:buehner@lyrea.com or mailto:charley@rocketship.com
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner  -- Oldsmagnet Homepage
OldsList Vital Info: http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner/listfaq.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 23:49:16 -0500
From: "Peter Landowski" <PETTRIX@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Officers of the law question

Drag racing on the city streets is illegal and stupid. A fast 13 second car
is usually in the 100 MPH range when in the 1/4 mile. Most city speed
limits rarely exceed 45MPH. So if a car is doing a blast he will be going
double or tripple the speed limit. Most nuckleheads that do drag on city
streets are beginner or novice drivers with their mustangs or camaros mommy
and daddy bought them. I have seen my share of car accidents caused by
people who dont know how to drive and are acting like idiots on busy roads.

 I have friends that drag race BUT do it and the track. Sometimes they
don't but they go to DESERTED COUNTRY ROADS. Where there is no other
cross-traffic and only corn fields on the sides. So if 1 or both cars wiped
out they would not take out anyone or anything else but themselves. That is
the only type of "street racing" that I would "approve of."
 Not to mention the penalties of drag racing, which involves an arrest,
towing of your vehicle, high fines and possibly getting your license
suspended or revoked. Either do it on a track or go on deserted country
road.


- ----------
> From: Johnson, Sam <SAJOHNSON@usds.com>
> To: 'Oldsmobile' <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Subject: Officers of the law question
> Date: Friday, June 26, 1998 7:12 AM
>
> Are there any Police Officers out there who dragrace?  If you do, do you
do
> this on the street on at the track?  Also how do you fill about us who
> dragrace on the street?
>
> Just Curious
>
>
> ===========================
> Sam E. Johnson, JR.
> Cutlass403@ameritech.net
> 1971 Cutlass S 455
> Westside! Chitown IL
> ===========================

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 22:03:47 -0700
From: Tom Lentz <tlentz@ior.com>
Subject: Re: 85 Cutlass?

I'm assuming that the rear ends were pretty much the same in '85 since they had
the same tranny and engine options as '84.  In that case, check on my web site
at www.ior.com/~tlentz/specifications.html

At the bottom of the page is the "factory power teams" showing which diffs were
teamed with which engines and trannies.  May make junkyard hunting for 3.x
gears easier!

Tom.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 01:15:14 EDT
From: <DYeager535@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Tranny Rebuild... (long)

Jason,
     I would seriously consider finding an honest person to rebuild your
trans. I believe the 200 is quite similar to the 350(?) and should be quite
chesp to "quick fix" with new clutches and seals. The kit for that should cost
you around $100. A GOOD trans shop will help you out, and usually if you kick
them a few bucks, they will even help when you need a special tool if you
decide to rebuild yourself.
     I would think long and hard before I bought one of these super cheap
rebuilt 350's I have started seeing advertised. I know that it cost me, for
parts alone, 3/4's what they charge for a rebuilt 350. I would almost
guarantee you would be getting a trans with old bushings, and maybe even old
seals. if you want any further info (parts costs, etc.,) let me know. I'd be
happy to call my local trans shop and get some kind of estimate. Other than
that, anyone out there know what a 200 looks like on the inside (350, 2004R)?
Dorian

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 01:54:03 EDT
From: <KS7RACING@aol.com>
Subject: Re: FULLY Variable Ignition was Cam Bank Angle Saga.

OK Karl, lessee what 'cha gots.

Mechanically variable ignition.  Hmmmmmm, I'd think you were either talking
about going back to some sort of point setup with a center rub block that was
cut so some times the points would open earlier or later than a normal
interval, much like varying the dwell on a cylinder-by-cylinder basis.  This
would require that the distributor were installed in a specific location with
no tolerance allowed.  That would be rather unreasonable in the fact that the
gears on both the cam and distributor would have to be indexed to coincide
with the varying dwell from cylinder to cylinder.  Or you are thinking about
(on an HEI-type distributor) changing the "points" on the pickup coil inside
the distributor housing.  That wouldn't work since the pickup coil is made up
of an outer ring and an inner ring with "points" that are aimed at each other.
When these are directly lined up, it triggers the module that controls when
you get fire at the plug.  If some of these "points" were placed in a slightly
staggered fashion, then only one time per distributor revolution would the
module get the signal to fire the coil - that wouldn't work.

There have been many different systems designed to allow varying ignition
timing in a racing application, but these are really high-end units that
utilize a trigger wheel on the front of the crankshaft and a computer box that
tells the coil package when to fire.  Even GM has built ignition packages that
are computer-controlled for street cars, my father's 89 Olds 98 Royale had one
on a B***k engine, and I'm sure now they're the rule, not the exception.  The
problem is not many of the "shade tree" variety of local racing mechanics have
access to the information and technology it would take to make it work, and if
they did, the local racing promoters would probably frown on it, stating that
they think it would be an unfair advantage (it would, similar to traction
control which is a BIG no-no in stock car racing but allowed in Formula 1, I
think)

So what to do?  Not worry about the ignition system except that it works well
and is adjustable for the intended purpose.  It would be easier to vary the
opening and closing of the valves via the camshaft with slightly different
lobes for each cylinder.  Then allow the ignition to spark at the appointed
time, and let the amount of charge it's igniting be equalized by opening
valves longer at the cylinders that flow poorer than the ones that flow
better.

I could be full of it (wouldn't be the first time), so regard these words as
only my opinion, and I wouldn't mind being proved wrong.  Some of you college
types might have more experience in the physics side of all this, so you'd
know more than I would.

Gotta go now, I think it's time for another Prozac...........  :-)

Take Care,
Ken Snyder
Kansas City, Kansas

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 22:30:16 -0700
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Re: 'C' Heads

Bob - Thanks for the lead.  I got the motor and trans - not the car.  The
car was long gone and the guy who bought the package can't remember too
much about it.  I will call and see what other info I can get.

Thanks a lot - Lisa

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 02:11:13 EDT
From: <BIGJERMES@aol.com>
Subject: rear brake shoes not wearing

boy, i have had this set of brake shoes on my '78 cutlass for who knows how
long and every time i rotate my tires, i give them a look.  well, seems like
every time i look, they are the same as the last time i checked!  the last set
of front pads didnt seem to last very long, also.  this has got me really
curius now.  another thing.  my brake pedal is somewhat spongy.  i mean, i can
slow the car down great, but its like the pedal goes down more than it should.
could it be air in the system?  maybe a pinched line?  master cylinder?  in
the next week or so i plan on swapping out my rearend with a 3.73 one so im
putting in fresh shoes, wheel cylinders, and all that stuff too.  got any
ideas?

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 02:19:50 EDT
From: <BIGJERMES@aol.com>
Subject: Re: 260 Die&sell

In a message dated 98-06-25 21:12:06 EDT, you write:

<< I was lookin thru the manuals one day.... spotted that 260 Die&sell motor.

 Lookee here, 'tain't a V8 atall! Look, ma, it's a V6!!! Same bore & stroke as
 the 350 though! Wow, chop 25% off a 350, you get a 260.... OR you can use a
 teeny tiny bore with 8 cylinders. >>

well i had a 260 V8 in my '78 cutlass.  it was a gas motor, but good god, it
ran like a slug.  that engine was rated at 110hp, and the 260 diesel was rated
at something like 90hp.  i couldnt imagine having a diesel.  with 2.29 gears
and 110hp, my car wouldnt hardly keep up with escorts and the like.  now that
sucks.  just thought id share a little about the good 'ol 260.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 12:47:52 -0400
From: olds@interconti.com
Subject: Re[2]: rechrome plastic

         I have used the chrome foil on a 1970 cutlass dash trim,
         and it looks great!  You just have to be careful after
         installation, as if you hit it with something even like
         your finger nail - it gets messed up.

         Does anyone know of some kind of sealant that can be
         used over it to protect it?

         Scott

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 02:29:33 EDT
From: <DYeager535@aol.com>
Subject: Re: rear brake shoes not wearing

Just went through the spongy brake pedal thing on a friends car. Brake light
would even come on. '79 Malibu Wagon. Replaced pads, (which weren't worn
enough to need replacing) Master Cylinder,(wasn't visibly leaking) and the
rubber brake lines. Went out test drove it, still kinda spongy, but no light,
and they would lock up if you hit 'em hard.
     Next day, she blows out both rear wheel cylinders. Replace cylinders(they
were as cheap as a rebuild kit) and the pedal is NOT spongy, and the brakes
have worked for over 2 weeks perfectly. I figure the wheel cylinder seals were
worn enough to maybe let fluid past, leading to the spongy feeling under load.
Dorian

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 02:34:12 EDT
From: <BIGJERMES@aol.com>
Subject: Re: rear brake shoes not wearing

In a message dated 98-06-27 02:30:57 EDT, you write:

<<  I figure the wheel cylinder seals were
 worn enough to maybe let fluid past, leading to the spongy feeling under load
>>

this could definately be my problem since i think the original wheel cylinders
are still on there!  20 year old wheel cylinders cant be good.....

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 00:43:01 -0600
From: Charley Buehner <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: 260Dx & other torq monsters

> ran like a slug.  that engine was rated at 110hp, and the 260 diesel was 
rated
> at something like 90hp.

Yeah, and the 3.8 for the same years was something like 115.
Hmm...  Math sucks, doesn't it!

Other similar news--gave the '83 a bit of a tune up tonight.  Started out as a
car cleaning project, started vacuuming...  Decided to ~finally~ pull the seats
and get that two year old glass out of the carpet.  They'd ~never~ been out!  I
soon noticed all the other spills etc. under the seats.  So, after a quick
vacuuming, out came the carpet.  Down to the car wash we go...  (shoulda took a
truck or something, but...)  After a few bucks, I had a soaked carpet ready to
dry.  Mostly clean...er.  Spend about ten minutes trying to get it back into 
the
car (probably weighed 80 pounds!)  Curled it up on the pass. side floor (no 
seat
there)  Hauled a** back to the store, and pulled it back out.  Stuck it up on a
stand to dry, and mopped up the lake on the floor...  Went for a few cruises,
one seat, one seat belt, still all the stereo...  Took off around a corner,
noticed this squealing sound...  Turned stereo down...  Oops!  That noise was
coming from my tire.  Wait a minute.  ~MY~ tire??????  Whoa!  It's never done
that before.  Noticed other instances of additional power.  Pedal seemed a bit
longer, too.  I wonder if the carpet had been binding it up somewhat.  Of
course, getting rid of a couple seats and a carpet set is a ~bit~ of a weight
reduction...  The driver's seat's the heaviest of em all, and the trunk was
still full, so I don't know...  It sure seemed a bit quicker, though.  ~Almost~
could beat that turtle now...
- --
The Oldsmobile Magnet -- Charley Buehner@Sidney Montana
mailto:buehner@lyrea.com or mailto:charley@rocketship.com
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner  -- Oldsmagnet Homepage
OldsList Vital Info: http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner/listfaq.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 03:39:16 -0400
From: "James E. O'Donnell" <CaIlaway@sprintmail.com>
Subject: Re: '86 Salon/grille

Dorian,

I painted my chrome and black bezels flat black by using Dupli-Color
flat lacquer paint and I think they look terrific. It's fast drying,
durable and can be used for exterior parts. Unlike yourself who ownes a
Salon, my '88 Cutlass Supreme Classic came out of the factory with the
chrome and black bezels. Since I love the way the front grill looks on
the 442 and Salon, I decided to give it a try.

Just remove the grill, use masking tape around the outside chrome edges
and carefully spray paint the bezels. Like Jason Adcock mentioned, it's
best to give them a couple of coats for a longer, lasting finish.
Overall, I think you be happy with the results! I know I am.

Best wishes,

Jimmy





DYeager535@AOL.COM wrote:
>
> I need some help with my '86 Salon. When I bought it, the headlight trim
> pieces were cracked, so I bought some from a Supreme. When I installed them, 
I
> realized that the ones originally on the car were painted black. I of 
course,
> like an idiot, threw them away without checking to see HOW they were
> blackened. The grille is chrome on the outside edges, but the inner vertical
> pieces are black. Do I remember correctly that the headlight trim pieces were
> also black on the inside, with the outer edges the only chrome showing? And
> are these even the correct grille colors? Thanks, Dorian

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 01:12:49 -0700
From: "michael burlingame" <miburli@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Officers of the law question

They're having donuts right now. They don't want to get crumbs on their
keyboards. C*ps drive fast. They just don't get tickets.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Johnson, Sam <SAJOHNSON@usds.com>
To: 'Oldsmobile' <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Friday, June 26, 1998 5:13 AM
Subject: Officers of the law question


>Are there any Police Officers out there who dragrace?  If you do, do you do
>this on the street on at the track?  Also how do you fill about us who
>dragrace on the street?
>
>Just Curious
>
>
>===========================
>Sam E. Johnson, JR.
>Cutlass403@ameritech.net
>1971 Cutlass S 455
>Westside! Chitown IL
>===========================

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 05:24:38 -0400
From: "Angel Castrodad" <angleki@prtc.net>
Subject: RE: Re:85 Cutlass?

I know, I know.......but that the reason for the "". Previous owner probably
had the 200 4-R fail on him and decided it was cheaper to replace it than
rebuild it. But besides this and the mods I told you about, the car is
factory stock. Uhhhhmmm.....well......no emission gear either. No cat, pump
or A.I.R. tubes.....no emission laws here untill this year.Although I know I
can pass with a good tune up and a Hi flow cat (I have access to a Bear
machine and was very near, althought over, the limits for my car.

Angel Castrodad
angleki@prtc.net

86'442--->> 307/5A/TH-350/3.73

> -----Original Message-----
> From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
> [mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of Jason Adcock
> Sent: Friday, June 26, 1998 9:17 PM
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Re:85 Cutlass?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Angel Castrodad <angleki@prtc.net>
> To: Oldsmobile list <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Date: Friday, June 26, 1998 9:47 AM
> Subject: Re:85 Cutlass?
>
> >My car is a "STOCK" '86 442 with the "9"(HYD) 307, TH-350 trans, and 3.73
>
> Angel, your car is "STOCK"?  That TH-350 tranny isn't stock in an 86 442.
> It should have the TH-200-4R (overdrive).
>
> >Did I mention that the trans is slipping a bit?
>
> Heh, do ~I~ have a story about that...
>
> Jason Adcock
> mailto:jadcock@vt.edu
> http://www.cslab.vt.edu/~jadcock/
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 08:10:40 -0400
From: THOMAS JACQUILLARD <tjacquillard@InfoAve.Net>
Subject: Re: '86 307-9 A/C

Matthew Mayer wrote:
>
> I finally decided that it's hot enough that I wanted to see if I could
> figure out why my '86 442 didn't have A/C.  The first problem turned out
> to be a bad connection at the clutch...oops...seemed pretty simple and I
> felt pretty stupid... until I watched the compressor for a minute or
> two.  When the A/C is first switched on, the compressor runs about 20-30
> seconds and kicks off...the air in the car starts to cool...but the next
> time the compressor starts up it only runs about 5-10 seconds...air is
> still relatively cool...after that, all I will get are short bursts from
> the compressor--1-2 seconds...literally pop on pop off
I had one of my cars do this also. My bet is that your freon is
definately low. There is a pressure switch or relay in the system that
will keep turn the compressor off(or actually keep it from coming on)
when the pressure is too low or non-consistent. Mine was fixed after a
re-charge. To re-charge the system they will jump across the relay to
by-pass the relay so that the compressor will stay on constantly. Hope
this helps, but I think you had the answer already. Make sure to do a
leak test also.
T.J.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 07:43:07 -0500
From: "Jim and Pat Juon" <jimpat@netins.net>
Subject: illegal racing "penalties"

"Deserted" country roads may not be as they look.  They may have slow
moving equipment or someone out for a bike ride and the penalty you pay for
drag racing could be much higher than monetary.  Please keep the racing at
the drag strip.

Jim's wife

'53 "Black Beauty"
'53 Bridges of Madison Co.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 09:32:25 EDT
From: <AGUY4RUMLI@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Brake Shoes: which is which

In a message dated 98-06-25 17:54:28 EDT, you write:

<< > ........So, you'd expect there to be the words "primary"
 > and "secondary" on shoes when you buy 'em .. right?
 >
 > Nope. So, in the absence of that, is there ANY way to
 > tell which is which, or do brake manufacturers not
 > bother with different compunds any more?
 > >
smaller shoe towards front of car big to the rear. Its that simple no need for
a calculator.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 09:35:11 EDT
From: <AGUY4RUMLI@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Brake Shoes: which is which

In a message dated 98-06-26 10:10:04 EDT, you write:

<< I thought the same thing also.  The metal part of the shoe is the same,
 but the 'meat' or actual surface that touches the drum is different in
 size. >>
Whats with all this talk of drums anyway??? Havent you guys been keeping up
with the list we are all going over to rear disks :)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 10:19:43 -0400
From: "Dave Cullen" <david.cullen@snet.net>
Subject: Re: electric choke hookup

Subject: RE: electric choke hookup


>Joe,
>The car doesn't have power windows, so guess that eliminates that.  It
>does have the oil pressure sending unit for ralley gauges.<snip>

With gages the 85 manual shows the electric choke powered by a small relay.
The relay coil gets power from the brown wire on the alternator. That's the
same wire that runs the charge indicator light in the dash. The relay won't
pull in until the engine is running, which is what you want for the choke
too. If you want to go this rout, e-mail me direct and I'll give you the
details.

>Also what gauge wire should I use?
>Chris Smetana


Electric chokes I've measured only draw about 1/2 amp. 18 gage is fine as
long as you pick a source fused for 5 amps, or 16 gage for a 10 amp circuit
(you want the fuse to blow before the wire).

Dave Cullen

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 10:23:27 -0400
From: Jonathan Parke <jonparke@together.net>
Subject: Still looking... really need h*lp

I'm still trying to figure out the height from the top of a stock 455
intake manifold to the hood in a '72 Cutlass.  (By the way my car is not a
442, so it doesn't have the hood scoops.)  I'm getting near the end of a
frame-off rebuild/modify/customization.  At the moment I'm about to build a
455 with fuel injection using an Edelbrock Torker manifold (I already know
its height compared to stock) and the Edelbrock/Mondello aluminum heads.  I
want to see what amount of space/clearance I'm working with because
eventually I'll be making up an air cleaner/under-the-bumper air scoop
arrangement.  My old 350 is out of the car and at a friend's garage.  So I
haven't got any base line to go on.

Could somebody with a 455 in '71-'72 Cutlass PLEASE do me a BIG favor?  Pop
the hood, take off the air cleaner, take a piece of string about 10' long,
tie a couple of box end wrenches on either end and drape the whole thing
across the fenders from side to side so that the wrenches hang down next to
the wheel wells.  If the wrenches are heavy enough the string should be
fairly level going across.

Then (in the middle)measure down from the string to the base of the carb or
at least to the top of a Q-jet (not Holly or any other carb because I don't
know their height).

I know this is a pain and takes some time, but I could really use the
information.

TIA,

Jonathan Parke
'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 10:45:17 -0400
From: "Dave Cullen" <david.cullen@snet.net>
Subject: Re: A/C Diagnosis

Subject: A/C Diagnosis


>
>Replaced compressor and rcvr/drier a few years back and had it charged.


A rebuilt unit, no doubt?

>Then, one winter nite my wife was driving it and using the defrost.  The
>compressor locked and smoked the belt- I'm guessing the thing froze up.

>Bob, Covington, VA


Sounds like compressor failure to me. Maybe the forgot to use refrigerant
oil or maybe the bearings are going. Doesn't sound good.

drc

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 11:04:32 +0100
From: Matt Cremean <ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
Subject: 60's Toro For Sale

It's sitting on 223 on the way to Round Lake, MI. I see it every time I go.
I'll get some info and maybe test drive it. The body is in rough shape. It
looks to be a 66-67, I'm no Toro aficionado though. What I find out, I'll 
post.


- --
*************
Matt Cremean
mailto:ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
         777777 33333
            77      33
Cutlass    77    3333   Supreme
          77        33
         77     33333
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/
**************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 11:06:18 +0100
From: Matt Cremean <ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
Subject: I NEED Landau roof trim pieces.

PLEASE!!! Can anybody help me?

I need trim pieces for the WHITE landau roof on my 1973 Cutlass Supreme. The
trim doesn't necessarily have to be white, it can always be sandblasted and
repainted. It's the stuff that matches the vinyl color. It goes around the
rear window and places like that. Mine is so old and brittle that it may crack
if we attempt to put it back on. You will be worshipped like a god if you can
scrounge some up for me! They have to be in good condition.

Thanx List!
- --
*************
Matt Cremean
mailto:ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
         777777 33333
            77      33
Cutlass    77    3333   Supreme
          77        33
         77     33333
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/
**************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 11:15:37 -0400
From: "Dave Cullen" <david.cullen@snet.net>
Subject: Re: Tranny Rebuild... (long)

Subject: Tranny Rebuild... (long)


> I told him I had the turbo-hydramatic 200
>and he goes "Ahh, the Metric.  Yep, I won't have to drive this car long at
>all!"  By this time, I knew the time had come for another 200 to bite the
>dust, but he said that most of them will last till 100k miles (I have 89k
on
>mine).

Had one behind a V-6 that went 190K without ever a whimper. Had another that
only went 70K before slipping (in reverse, like yours).

> Either way, he wants $700 for a complete overhaul.

Typical. I paid $650.

>BTW, just for curiosity's sake, how much would a freshly-built TH-350-C
>cost?  I wouldn't knowingly put a "used" one in there, I'd make sure sure
it
>was rebuilt...therefore, I don't know if I could even break even.

You could find a recent rebuild for 300-400 if you look hard enough in the
private market. But I totally agree with you that making modifications on a
daily driver is scary, when you can't affort to tinker. Rebuilding the 200
is the quickest and least risky path to getting back on the road. Maybe ask
the tranny guy if he'll consider thaking it in as a trade when you find a
350 you want to swap in.

>Everyone asks me if the car's even worth 1000 bucks.  First of all, it IS.
>:-)  And secondly, I don't care what some bluebook says a Cutlass sold for
>the 1984 model year ~should~ be worth.  It's what MY car is worth to ME.

>
>Jason Adcock


I hear ya, Bro. The bluebook value doesn't include the "It's mine and I love
it" factor.

drc

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 11:19:46 -0400
From: "Dave Cullen" <david.cullen@snet.net>
Subject: Re: rear brake shoes not wearing

Subject: rear brake shoes not wearing


>boy, i have had this set of brake shoes on my '78 cutlass for who knows how
>long and every time i rotate my tires, i give them a look.  well, seems
like
>every time i look, they are the same as the last time i checked! <snip>

They last a long time if they're not working. That'll give you the spongy
feel, too. Make sure the automatic adjustment mechanism is working freely. I
bet they're not.

drc

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 11:41:20 -0400
From: "RC Hellebuyck" <mrhell@sprynet.com>
Subject: Casting #s, Stamp Codes and ID #s  - Buy these!

With all the recent posts that question Vin, casting and stamping numbers, I
thought I would share two wonderful books everyone should add to their
collection.

"Catalog of Olds 4-4-2, W-Machines & Hurst/Olds ID Numbers 1964-91"

This book is by "Cars & Parts Magazine" and is published by Amos Press Inc.
It can be found at most larger book stores and swap meets for $15 - $20.
Dark blue cover with yellow lettering and has a light blue '66 4-4-2 on the
cover.  Includes:  Vin ID, Option codes, paint and interior section (in full
color), as well as codes for the engine, trans and axle.  Great book to have
when buying a car!

The other one to own is:

"4-4-2 By The Numbers - Casting Numbers and Stamping Codes 1965 - 1972
 (400 - 455)"

This book is by "Supercars Unlimited" and covers in detail what it says....,
4-4-2 & W-30 casting and stamping numbers.  Can be ordered direct from
Supercars at:  888-OLDS-442  or (503) 244-8249  for a measly $11.95!  This
book in addition to the above will cover an entire car.  And for such a
small investment, could save you a bundle when your ready to buy.  Includes:
Vin and Trim ID, Production figures, Engine color and codes, as well as
numbers for Blocks, flywheels/flexplates, connecting rods, cranks, cams,
heads, intakes, carbs, exhaust manifolds, water pumps, distributors, trans
(A&M), and axles!  Nice clear reference pictures too!  A swap meet must.

For any new guys (& gals) out there, just get these books!  You'll be glad
you did.  The "Year One" catalog has allot of number info too, but lugging
around that big "phone book" gets old quick.  The other two will fit in your
back pocket.

Hope this helps someone!

P.S. - I'm in no way affiliated with any of the companies mentioned above.
I just get excited when I find a great product people should know about!
Such as "Doug Newman's Olds Video".  Buy that too!   8>)

=====================================================
RC Hellebuyck  -  1971 4-4-2 covt.
OCA Member #30213 / Olds Street Rocket Member #094
See my car and 44 other Olds' at:
http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/mrhell

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 11:34:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: Gold & chrome 15x7 SSII's

Four NOS absolutely untouched gold & chrome SSII wheels.

Yours for only $1M.

Or, you can see them for $5/minute.
Touch them with gloved hand for $20/minute, 10 minute max.
Touch them with bare hands for $1M after you buy them.

Tri-carb intake, all correct carbs, with tags, correct air cleaners.
$500,000.

1966 Cutlass *rare* POST COUPE as seen on www.442.com/rocketsci.html, LOTS of
potential, in fact, it's pretty much all "potential" at this point, $9,995.

Hey, I figured, what the heck, it folks are paying, GLADLY, $100 each for NOS
68-9 wheel well trims, and $500 for a pair of USED rear 1/4 convert trims...
the world must be full of stupid rich folks. Send 'em my way.
- --
Chris Witt  *the* Rocket Scientist
1968 442 convertible, originally & to be again W30, et. al
Lansing, MI :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu
- --

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 12:00:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: Igor's timing

From: "Igor" <todorovb@cadvision.com>
Subject: Cam install question, -urgent

OKAY, I have installed my cam and timing gears.  The way I installed it is
with the #1 piston all the way up in the bore and the mark on the crank
gear is at the top (12'o clock) and the cam gear mark is also at the top
(12 'o clock).  But when I rotate the crank 180deg.  the marks come oposite
of each other (crank at top and cam at bottom).  Which one would be the
compression and which the fire stroke.  I don't know what these are
anyways.  What is my TDC and my BDC and when do they occur (in terms of
timing marks).  Other then putting the #1 piston at the top, I paid no
attention to the position of the crank.  The chain is a true DBL roller
timing.  Did I install it right.  What should i leave it at (timing marks
both up or cam down/crank up) for the distributor install.  How do I make
sure that the distributor is in right (ie the motor will start).  If you
just dip the pistons in correct bores (notch forward of course) and make
sure every piston is in the bor it belongs in, can you install the pistons
wrong.  I don't see how.  Also, if I lined up the cam gear dot with the
crank gear dot, both straight up on top, can the cam be in wrong (the chain
I mean).  Again, I don't think so.  Did I do everything right.  Please, it
is my FIRST engine and all the money I saved this year, so I don't want
anything to be wrong.  Thanks.  The engine is a 455.
- ---
The Haynes manual said that on Chevrolet and Oldsmobile engines the timing
marks should both be installed pointing up.  I kind of thought that the cam
gear should be down, but the book says it three times.  BOTH UP.
- ---
Yup.
Timing marks should be pointing towards each other exactly!
Crank up, cam down.
- ---
OKAY, but since tha cam and chain are already in, I think that if I just
turn the crank 180deg., the marks will come to face each other (crank
up/cam down).  Can't I just do that and then install the distributor that
way. If I pop the chain and gears off, and then put them back on 'properly'
they will sit the same way as they do now with the crank turned 180.  So
can I just turn the crank 180 deg. till the marks face each other, then
install distributor with the rotor on #1 post of the cap.  Thanks.
=======================\\\

*sighs*
Put them together with dots toward each other so it's easy to see whether they
are correct.

That is #6 firing position.

Turn crank 1 turn, so both dots are now UP at 12:00, that's #1 firing position.
Yes, cam goes 1/2 turn for every 1 turn of the crank. Funny how that works,
must be something to do with the 18 teeth on the crank gear & 36 on the cam
gear. And, yes, I know they are not "gears" as such.... Liberties....

TRICK OF THE DAY: [Genuine Old Racer's Trick]
with engine at #1 firing position, stuck your paint pen [you *do* have one,
right!? get one if not!] into the dist'r hole and MARK THE CAM GEAR. Any little
dab will do.

Later, after you've turned the motor about 37 times installing the tork
converter, etc. and then you want to install the dist'r... all you need do is
line up the timing marks, peer down into the dist'r hole... see paint: #1
firing; no paint- #6 firing position.
- --
Chris Witt  *the* Rocket Scientist
1968 442 convertible, originally & to be again W30, et. al
Lansing, MI :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu
- --

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 11:44:25 -0400
From: "Jason Adcock" <rocketolds@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Tranny Rebuild... (long)

- -----Original Message-----
From: Dave Cullen <david.cullen@snet.net>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Saturday, June 27, 1998 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: Tranny Rebuild... (long)

>I hear ya, Bro. The bluebook value doesn't include the "It's mine and I
love
>it" factor.
>
>drc

Thanks for the support, Dave.  You 'da man!

Jason Adcock
mailto:jadcock@vt.edu
http://www.cslab.vt.edu/~jadcock/

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 12:28:29 -0400
From: "Jason Adcock" <rocketolds@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: 260 Die&sell

Heh, a buddy of mine had an '82 Monte Carlo with that motor (or, it could've
been the Chev. 267) and he rolled up next to the door of the warehouse we
worked at at the time and started revving it and we were going, "Yeah,
Charlie, peel out!"  He had it revved pretty good and threw it in Drive and
the right rear squeaked.  The tire spun probably 1/4 turn and the car
"moved" away as he had it floored.  It shifted into 2nd and backfired and as
he let up for the corner in the parking lot, the car sputtered and it looks
like a hairball shot outta the rusted tailpipe!

I remember my friend and I also turned his late 80's Civic sideways in the
parking lot by bouncing the rear and "bouncing" car sideways.  He always
said, "revenge is hell, gentlemen..."  :-)

Ahh, the memories...

Jason Adcock
mailto:jadcock@vt.edu
http://www.cslab.vt.edu/~jadcock/

- -----Original Message-----
From: BIGJERMES@aol.com <BIGJERMES@aol.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Saturday, June 27, 1998 2:23 AM
Subject: Re: 260 Die&sell


>In a message dated 98-06-25 21:12:06 EDT, you write:
>
><< I was lookin thru the manuals one day.... spotted that 260 Die&sell
motor.
>
> Lookee here, 'tain't a V8 atall! Look, ma, it's a V6!!! Same bore & stroke
as
> the 350 though! Wow, chop 25% off a 350, you get a 260.... OR you can use
a
> teeny tiny bore with 8 cylinders. >>
>
>well i had a 260 V8 in my '78 cutlass.  it was a gas motor, but good god,
it
>ran like a slug.  that engine was rated at 110hp, and the 260 diesel was
rated
>at something like 90hp.  i couldnt imagine having a diesel.  with 2.29
gears
>and 110hp, my car wouldnt hardly keep up with escorts and the like.  now
that
>sucks.  just thought id share a little about the good 'ol 260.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 13:00:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: Angel busted on bandwidth

For crying out loud...

I must now waste tons of this mysterious "bandwidth" just to drive home this
point.

Severe, intense aplolgies to those on digest for the following...
- ----------=------------------------------------------------
Angel Castrodad writes:

Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 06:39:49 -0400
From: "Angel Castrodad" <angleki@prtc.net>
Subject: RE: Dave Emanuel Relies

Sorry that this is going on the list but the messages in question do not
have a private Email.

Man, What a waste of bandwith!!!! Even if you put all 6 messages in one,
they wouldn't be worth the bandwith.

GREG!!!!!!!!!!!!!  :-O

> -----Original Message-----
> From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
> [mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of OJUNEBUGGO@aol.com
> Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 1998 11:26 PM
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Dave Emanuel Relies
>
>
>
> Youve got an Eagle eye!
>
- --------------------------------------------------------------

Presumably in reference to the numerous but not too informative posts by this
guy: <OJUNEBUGGO@aol.com>

[note to this guy: Welcome, add your 2c, but.... try to include just the
right amount of reference from the post to which you are responding: some, but
not the WHOLE THING. And, simple comments such as "me too" are probably not
necessary.]

Ahem... with that in mind...
- -------



- ------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 13:27:31 EDT
From: <OJUNEBUGGO@aol.com>
Subject: Re: 85-88

In a message dated 98-06-25 03:36:22 EDT, you write:

<< crivier@hotmail.com (Chris Rivier) >>
im not jim but i am roger
- ------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 13:31:22 EDT
From: <OJUNEBUGGO@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Parts (Second request)

sorry cant help you there
- ------------------------------

See, not a clue as to what you can't help with. Since you can't help, why alert
the world to that? And, this should've been sent directly to the person who
needs the help, if at all...
- -RS-

OK, now, for the gist of this post, the subject line dealt with...

Right after Angel calls for  GREG to come save us.... he follows up with:

- -----------
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 06:46:41 -0400
From: "Angel Castrodad" <angleki@prtc.net>
Subject: RE: Summit Gaskets

Speaking of gaskets, I'm told that I can't use a valle tray with an
Edelbrock Performer manifold. I knot that I can use one for the Performer
RPM, though. Can anyone tell me opinions on the best gaskets for this
application?

TIA,

Angel Castrodad
angleki@prtc.net

86'442--->> 307/5A/TH-350/3.73

> -----Original Message-----
> From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
> [mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of RANDY A GEISEL
> Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 1998 9:49 PM
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Summit Gaskets
>
>
>
> >  Footnote at bottom (**) intake gasket
> >not included.  Only one application had the ** on it.  It ~wasn't~ on the
> Olds!
>
> I just bought the Fel-Pro set from Summit last week (part #
> FEL-KS2613) and
> it does NOT come with an intake gasket.
>
> You're still going to have to fork out another $23 to $29.00 (depending on
> motor and year) for a Fel-Pro Valley Pan or $16.00 bucks for a Mr.Gasket
> motor and year) for a Fel-Pro Valley Pan or $16.00 bucks for a Mr.Gasket
> composite intake gasket.
>
> Just a warning.
>
> Mr. Gasket engine overhaul kit is $27.99, part #7140, also has  everything
> but intake gasket. Is Fel-Pro $20.00 better? I thought the intake
> gasket was
> included with the Fel-Pro set or I would have used the Mr. G set again. I
> haven't had any problems with the Mr. G set on my 350. I not questioning
> Fel-Pro quality, I've used them allot, just the price difference.
>
> Randy
>

- ------------------------ aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh! ------------------
Just for kicks, lets COUNT this up:

Angel's reply: 4 lines of wisdom
Angel's signature:, intro, etc.: 10 lines
Angel's unsnipped inclusion of the ENTIRE contents of the previous post....
drumroll, please.....
.
>>>>> 34 lines <<<
For a total signal to noise ratio of.....
4/48, or .083, or 8% !!!!
- ----------------------------
I hope this ridiculously long post serves as an example of what NOT to do.
Count yer blessings I did not quote the entire DIGEST. I was tempted.

- --
Chris Witt  *the* Rocket Scientist
1968 442 convertible, originally & to be again W30, et. al
Lansing, MI :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu
- --

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 13:50:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: by the numbers book

Chris, since the intent of the book was to provide casting numbers, the reason
t he cranks were positioned the way they were was to show the location of the
casting number.
- ------

Ah, OK, but, with the crank out & in front of you, any dolt can find a number
if it's there. I see the book being far, far more useful to the parts searcher,
who generally is looking at an assembled motor, possibly even still in the
car... if it tells ID tips that can pinpoint the best parts with MINIMAL
effort. The crank notch scores big on that.


> I added the few other known intakes to my list in the book, takes up
virtually
> no more room, and that can often peg an engine/ application/ year. ESPECIALLY
> the highly desirable Toronado ID tips! This is utterly crucial.

No plans to add non 4-4-2 numbers to the book.  "4-4-2 By The Numbers" will
remai n numbers for 4-4-2's only.  It was never intended to be an all inclusive
Oldsmobil e book.  Once we start adding Toro intakes, we'll need to add the
numbers for other Toro components.  Then 88's, 98's, Starfires, 425's etc. Plus
we don't want readers identifying engines based on intake number alone.

Good point, soon it'd be "Every Olds number ever known" and would be 3' thick.
I can live with adding my own select numbers to the pages as needed. I have
long recommended your booklet to anyone who seeks used parts.
  Trouble is, finding real 442 parts is VERY rare, compared to, say, finding a
suitable replacement motor such as a Toronado 455- that's what made me write
the "what's the best engine to look for" thing which became much of the FAQ
engine ID section.

Never have seen a SMW 403.  However, I did encounter a guy at a swap meet who
insisted his brothers buddy had a 68 4-4-2 with the rare Chrysler 440-6 (One of
7 made he "informed"me)......
..
Greg Rollin
- --------------------
Wow, that IS rare! Mr. Demmer must've gotten confused & accidentally installed
Mopar motors instead of the Olds 455s that were in fact already in the cars?!
:-)

I guess a SMW 403 would not make your book anyhow, since it's not a pre-72 442
possibility.
 --
Chris Witt  *the* Rocket Scientist
1968 442 convertible, originally & to be again W30, et. al
Lansing, MI :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu
- --

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 13:50:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: J motor?!

OTOH, the "W" intake that went with the "J" block and "J" heads will not (I
think) flow as well as your car's original intake did. And the Performer will
flow air best of the three.
- -------------
Wow, there's a J casting motor now?!!!
What is it, a 456?
- --
Chris Witt  *the* Rocket Scientist
1968 442 convertible, originally & to be again W30, et. al
Lansing, MI :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu
- --

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 14:59:58 -0300
From: Raul Martinez <rmart@satlink.com>
Subject: Dashpot Explanation

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDA1DC.718599A0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Can anyone take a small time (or directed to) to explain me which is the
function and how a dashpot carb works?

Thanks in advance,

Raul
1966 Delta 88
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- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDA1DC.718599A0--

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 14:19:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: BB  intake

From: <DROLDS350@aol.com>
Subject: Re: 70 455 intake

I have been to all the junk yards around my area and they don't have any 455
intakes. I am looking for something off of a 70 automatic car. Does anyone
have one for sale? The reason I need a new intake is so that the Outside Air
Induction set-up will fit. The reason it doesn't fit is because I have a
edelbrock performer on the car now. Please e-mail me privatly if you have one.
Thanks,
Jim McKeague
===============
Whoa, I was all set to ream this guy out big-time, having the balls to ask $500
for USED 1/4 trim moldings, then ask for a cheap intake?

Oooooops, the million-dollar price gouger is:

      IBDrOlds@aol.com

Similar name, not the same. Avoid "IBDrOlds@aol.com" like the plague!
- -------------

Yes, Jim,I have just the unit you are seeking.
Shipping will dominate the cost.
Prolly $40 for the part, $30 to ship?
See, not $2,500 like "IBDrButthead@aol.com"  wold charge!
- --
Chris Witt  *the* Rocket Scientist
1968 442 convertible, originally & to be again W30, et. al
Lansing, MI :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu
- --

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 11:35:15 -0700
From: Eric Spence <ericsp@mail.ocis.net>
Subject: Re: Igor's timing

With the spark plug out, put your thumb over the plug hole and have someone 
turn
it over a bit at a time.  You will feel the compression stroke.

Chris Brown Witt wrote:

> From: "Igor" <todorovb@cadvision.com>
> Subject: Cam install question, -urgent
>
> OKAY, I have installed my cam and timing gears.  The way I installed it is
> with the #1 piston all the way up in the bore and the mark on the crank
> gear is at the top (12'o clock) and the cam gear mark is also at the top
> (12 'o clock).  But when I rotate the crank 180deg.  the marks come oposite
> of each other (crank at top and cam at bottom).  Which one would be the
> compression and which the fire stroke.  I don't know what these are
> anyways.  What is my TDC and my BDC and when do they occur (in terms of
> timing marks).  Other then putting the #1 piston at the top, I paid no
> attention to the position of the crank.  The chain is a true DBL roller
> timing.  Did I install it right.  What should i leave it at (timing marks
> both up or cam down/crank up) for the distributor install.  How do I make
> sure that the distributor is in right (ie the motor will start).  If you
> just dip the pistons in correct bores (notch forward of course) and make
> sure every piston is in the bor it belongs in, can you install the pistons
> wrong.  I don't see how.  Also, if I lined up the cam gear dot with the
> crank gear dot, both straight up on top, can the cam be in wrong (the chain
> I mean).  Again, I don't think so.  Did I do everything right.  Please, it
> is my FIRST engine and all the money I saved this year, so I don't want
> anything to be wrong.  Thanks.  The engine is a 455.
> ---
> The Haynes manual said that on Chevrolet and Oldsmobile engines the timing
> marks should both be installed pointing up.  I kind of thought that the cam
> gear should be down, but the book says it three times.  BOTH UP.
> ---
> Yup.
> Timing marks should be pointing towards each other exactly!
> Crank up, cam down.
> ---
> OKAY, but since tha cam and chain are already in, I think that if I just
> turn the crank 180deg., the marks will come to face each other (crank
> up/cam down).  Can't I just do that and then install the distributor that
> way. If I pop the chain and gears off, and then put them back on 'properly'
> they will sit the same way as they do now with the crank turned 180.  So
> can I just turn the crank 180 deg. till the marks face each other, then
> install distributor with the rotor on #1 post of the cap.  Thanks.
> =======================\\\
>
> *sighs*
> Put them together with dots toward each other so it's easy to see whether 
they
> are correct.
>
> That is #6 firing position.
>
> Turn crank 1 turn, so both dots are now UP at 12:00, that's #1 firing
position. > Yes, cam goes 1/2 turn for every 1 turn of the crank. Funny how 
that
works, > must be something to do with the 18 teeth on the crank gear & 36 on 
the
cam > gear. And, yes, I know they are not "gears" as such.... Liberties.... > >
TRICK OF THE DAY: [Genuine Old Racer's Trick] > with engine at #1 firing
position, stuck your paint pen [you *do* have one, > right!? get one if not!]
into the dist'r hole and MARK THE CAM GEAR. Any little > dab will do. > > 
Later,
after you've turned the motor about 37 times installing the tork > converter,
etc. and then you want to install the dist'r... all you need do is > line up 
the
timing marks, peer down into the dist'r hole... see paint: #1 > firing; no
paint- #6 firing position. > -- > Chris Witt  *the* Rocket Scientist > 1968 442
convertible, originally & to be again W30, et. al > Lansing, MI :=:
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu > --

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 14:39:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: W31 pistons avail

So, I was trying to sell some goodies for a local guy at the swap meet...
including a few pistons sets.

Had Std size Early 400 pistons- GREAT flat-top [exc. machining dimple] units
for a killer 330 overbore! $250/set. Forged.

Std size late 400, not very useful unless you have good bores on such a motor.
Slight dish, very high compression. $250/set. Forged.

Sold the 455 forgings.

Oh, come to finally look at thge unsold 350 pistons...

THEY WERE FLAT-TOPS! Tiny depression for machining, NO 2.5" dish at all. 0.040
oversize I think. Anyone need same, contact me privately. Price will be $300
the set.
- --
Chris Witt  *the* Rocket Scientist
1968 442 convertible, originally & to be again W30, et. al
Lansing, MI :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu
- --

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 14:44:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: setting timing

If you are willing to try.. (i.e. blindly follow the suggestion of someone who
does not know for certain) set timing between the top two marks, that should
be 7.5 degrees before TDC. If your timing chain has any wear, you may end up
adjusting it to 10 or higher..... KA

- -------------

Uh, excuse me, when you set the timing, all slop between crank & sparkmaker is
accounted for. I don't see why one would need do "set the timing up more" in
order to "compensate for timing chain stretch."

- --
Chris Witt  *the* Rocket Scientist
1968 442 convertible, originally & to be again W30, et. al
Lansing, MI :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu
- --

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 17:00:44 -0400
From: Jerry Christopher <ithefunki@viperlink.net>
Subject: Re: Brake Shoes: which is which

AGUY4RUMLI@aol.com wrote:

> Whats with all this talk of drums anyway??? Havent you guys been keeping up
> with the list we are all going over to rear disks :)

It's more expensive to eat a set of disk rears up on a burnout than it
is to burn off disks.  :)

- --
                - Jerry Christopher -
IRC - EFNet:IThEFunKI - #SouthCarolina -#Olds - #Ford
       HTTP://Members.Viperlink.Net/IThEFunKI

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 19:47:01 -0400
From: "Ken Swick" <swickka@mail.cvn.net>
Subject: Re: Lockup rear brakes on G-Body

Thomas :

I bought an 85 Cutlass three months ago ...
I thought it was just me ... but the brakes are real
touchy ... back brakes both sides lock up easily.

Usually, I have tried this on gravel, left locks first then
right rear brake. When braking in a corner , you
got to be careful.

Is this built into brake system or an oddity on just some
of the 85 Olds models.

Ken Swick

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 17:17:41 -0400
From: Jerry Christopher <ithefunki@viperlink.net>
Subject: 307 Ex. Manifold...

Just to add to the wierdness factor...

I got an 87 307 with the cast iron exhaust manifolds.  7A Heads, Y 307

Maybe it's related to build date, or options pack???

What is the RPO Code for the 87 Y 307???
- --
                - Jerry Christopher -
IRC - EFNet:IThEFunKI - #SouthCarolina -#Olds - #Ford
       HTTP://Members.Viperlink.Net/IThEFunKI

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 17:20:52 -0400
From: Jerry Christopher <ithefunki@viperlink.net>
Subject: Re: Lockup rear brakes on G-Body

Ken Swick wrote:

> Is this built into brake system or an oddity on just some
> of the 85 Olds models.

I would say an oddity..  I haven't heard this problem from the GN/Regal,
Grand Prix, or Monte Python/SS crowd.  My 87 is kinda weak on braking,
but I attribute that to being a heavy car with 140K on the clock, and
worn parts.  My rear rarely lock-up.  In fact, my fronts will stick
before the rear, and I know the fronts aren't very worn (will be
replaced soon though), it locks in a straight line (wet road test), and
stays that way.

- --
                - Jerry Christopher -
IRC - EFNet:IThEFunKI - #SouthCarolina -#Olds - #Ford
       HTTP://Members.Viperlink.Net/IThEFunKI

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 17:25:23 EDT
From: <DYeager535@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Lockup rear brakes on G-Body

In a message dated 98-06-27 17:12:35 EDT, you write:

<< I thought it was just me ... but the brakes are real
 touchy ... back brakes both sides lock up easily. >>

Ken,
     The pads may be contaminated with oil. I had my axle bearing seal fail,
and leak onto the pads...thought it would burn off, due to heat...wrong! Once
it got hot, it would start to lock up. The hotter it got, the worse it got.
Changed the shoe, no problem. Dorian

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #1334
*********************************
