Please respond to oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
To:	oldsmobile-digest@chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #1383


oldsmobile-digest      Wednesday, July 22 1998      Volume 01 : Number 1383



Re: Chrome 442 rims - Part IV
for  sale / trade  &  wanted ( mixed - Olds  & other )
Re: Stereo mounting
Re: delta 88
Re: Bought my 70 442 again {Seat cleaning}
fan clutch question
RE: Stop shouting and try this was: *please*/ Carb Problem?
70 442 W30 CONV for sale
RE:  Suspension And Electrical
RE: Suspension And Electrical
Parts request
Re: Soylent no Start is hotwiring to Solenoid Bad?
RE: Bought my 70 442 again
Eliminating Urine Smell
Motor F/S
Re: Spark trivia, was splitfires, wierd stuff, etc...
RE: '79 Hurst/Oldsmobiles and Turbocharged Buicks
RE: 1970 442 Ram Air Question
RE: Bought my 70 442 again
69 brake drum color
Re: Soylent no Start is hotwiring to Solenoid Bad? Hmmmm...
Michigan Cars For Sale
what's my car worth? (70 442)
Re: Bought my 70 442 again
Re: D.Millers Olds Nationals
Re: fan clutch question
[Fwd: 1986 Olds Cutlass 442]
Re: fan clutch question
TH350 downshift cable
Re: TH350 downshift cable
Re: TH350 downshift cable
Re: 69 brake drum color
Re: Price busters - '69-'77 brake calipers
Re: TH350 downshift cable
FWIW, abreviation H*%p Please
Hi Amp Alternator Kit
Re: FWIW, abreviation H*%p Please
Re: D.Millers Olds Nationals
Need 1965-7 (??) early pattern flywheel for 425
Soylent's Fly(wheel) is Caught in......
Re: Price busters - '69-'77 brake calipers
moving to Galveston Texas
re: off topic (really on topic)
Where can I get good gears?
455 Crankshaft Questions
Re: Price busters - '69-'77 brake calipers
Re: Soylent's Fly(wheel) is Caught in......
re: off topic (really on topic)
Re: Soylent's Fly(wheel) is Caught in......
Re: off topic (really on topic)
UNBOUNCE: 455 Crankshaft Questions

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 01:54:04 EDT
From: <BIGJERMES@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Chrome 442 rims - Part IV

In a message dated 98-07-21 20:16:14 EDT, you write:

<< Complete package $950 amer >>

good gosh, maybe i can sell mine for that and get some new reproductions 1"
wider?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 02:29:47 EDT
From: <WheelTrdr@aol.com>
Subject: for  sale / trade  &  wanted ( mixed - Olds  & other )

FOR  SALE / TRADE

* Saginaw  4 sp.  trans. with  shifter
* Aluminum  B.O.P.  bellhousing
* Early  Chevy  bellhousing
* ' 73 Pontiac  long  block  +  includes  factory  exhaust  manifolds ,  92 K
miles , { new  timing  chain  &  HV  oil  pump  @  79 K - according  to
previous  owner  }


 THESE  PARTS  ARE  ORIGINALLY  FROM  ' 84  BUICK  LE SABER

*  4.1  Liter  V - 6  &  4 sp. O. D. auto. trans. ( with  computer  & wiring
loom )
* " sub - frame "  : with  Disc Brakes & P. S. ( was  full  frame - cut
behind  trans. crossmember
* Tilt  steering  column  - with : tilt , auto. gearshift , turn signal - (
turn signal  arm  also  has : delay  wiper , windshield  washer  and  cruise
control  switches ) , locking  ignition ( with key ) ,  4 way / hazard  lights
switch , and  of  coarse  ~ steering  wheel
* 40 / 60 cloth  Power  Bench  Seat - with : seatbelts ( only  drivers  side
is  power ) nice !
* Power  Brake  Booster - with : master cyl. & Pedal  Assembly
* Complete  INSIDE  Hood  release  set - up


Wanted  ( lets - trade )

THESE  PARTS  ARE  WANTED  FOR  A  ' 72 Cutlass - Conv.

* Complete  Power  Window  set - up ( switches , motors , regulators , wire
loom -etc. )
* 3.08 Posi. Rear  End
* Rear  Sway - Bar
* Rally  Pac ( factory  gauges )
* Edelbrock  performer  intake  manifold  for  455  Olds
* 750 / 780 cfm  carb. ( with : vacuum  secondaries & elect. choke )

OTHER - WANTED

* Edelbrock  performer  intake  manifold  for  400  Dodge ( B - Block )
* 650 cfm  carb. ( with  vacuum  secondaries  &  elect. choke )
* Extendable  boom  " cherry - picker " engine  hoist  ( must  have
extendable  boom & legs - I need  it  to  work  for  van  engines ! ) ONLY   "
break - apart "  OR  fold - up  models  Please

To  minimize  clutter  to  list  please  respond  privately  to :
Wheel Trdr @ aol.com

Thanks  ...  Al  > alias : Wheel Trdr

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 02:39:28 -0400
From: "Peter Berusch" <pber710840@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Stereo mounting

Did you say "nice" and "Jensen"?  The two don't go together.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Andersons <robertan@cfw.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wednesday, July 22, 1998 12:17 AM
Subject: Re: Stereo mounting


>Not sure of the reason for all the hesitation to just put a nice Pioneer or
>Jensen in the dash- any conventional "2-knob" stereo will fit, as the knobs
>can slide left/right and the unit can adjust for depth, relative to the
>knobs.  This is NOT an un-reversible modification- you can slap the
original
>back in when/if needed.  I have a 1996 Pioneer in the dash, and it looks
and
>works _terrific_. (There was a bit of the old dash cutout showing on either
>side of the faceplate after stock installation.  Got one of those unversal
>black plastic plates from the car stereo shop, and covered it nicely.)
>
>And, I put an amp/equalizer under the dash, but back behind the cross-duct,
>facing the floor.  You can't see it, but reach under and you can easily set
>the fader and freq controls by touch.  Center bench seat passenger
sometimes
>kicks the controls, but rarely.
>
>Note that modern cassette/tuners can usually control a trunk-mounted CD
>changer, using a fat cable between the two.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Stefan Gadecki <sgadecki@yahoo.com>
>To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
>Date: Tuesday, July 21, 1998 7:20 AM
>Subject: Re: Stereo mounting
>
>
>>
>>  I put a new stereo in under my dash.  There's an enclosure that you
>>can buy that screws under.  I used 2 existing holes(just used longer
>>screws) and drilled 2 new ones.  If you ever want to remove it, the
>>holes are not noticeable unless you're really looking for them.
>>
>>Hope this helps,
>>          Stefan
>>          sgadecki@yahoo.com
>>          1970 Cutlass 'S' Holiday Coupe
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>_________________________________________________________
>>DO YOU YAHOO!?
>>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>>
>>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 07:51:38 EDT
From: <WOODY3781@aol.com>
Subject: Re: delta 88

this is a two piece bumper, the molding hides the crease. i replaced mine this
past weekend. my upper is very straight, the molding is in one piece, and the
lower has a rot hole on the driver's side.chrome is very poor however. don't
know what your intentions are as far as repairing or rechroming. i do know
that they are hard to find and costly as i had gotten prices from $300-$525.

woody
73 delta convertible
70 cutlass

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 08:44:54 EDT
From: <JonKrisInc@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Bought my 70 442 again {Seat cleaning}

In a message dated 98-07-21 16:41:48 EDT, you write:

<< I know nil-odor will take out cat urine smell.
  >>
Why don't you try tomato juice? It contains tannic acid. Used to bathe pets in
it after being sprayed by skunks. Then a good shampoo to remove the juice.
Guaranteed!
Bruce
75 Delta 88 Conv.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 08:55:52 EDT
From: <JonKrisInc@aol.com>
Subject: fan clutch question

Anybody know the difference between a regular fan clutch and a thermal? And
which one would go on my car?  Started to sound like an airplane at takeoff
every time I gave it gas. I noticed my fan clutch locked up. My parts store
asked which kind i need. Anyone know?
Tia
Bruce
75 Delta 88 conv. 350 w/ac and cruise

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 08:04:18 -0500
From: "Johnson, Sam" <SAJOHNSON@usds.com>
Subject: RE: Stop shouting and try this was: *please*/ Carb Problem?

What is a low rpm spark circuit?

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	DYeager535@aol.com [SMTP:DYeager535@aol.com]
> Sent:	Tuesday, July 21, 1998 6:00 PM
> To:	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject:	Re: Stop shouting and try this was: *please*/ Carb Problem?
>
> In a message dated 98-07-21 18:44:47 EDT, you write:
>
> << did you check the points? or if HEI the control module low rpm spark
>  circuit? this can cause the symptoms you mentioned..kk >>
>
>
>     I would assume we are both running HEI. I am. I'm not too familiar
> with
> internal's of HEI, but there is a low RPM spark circuit that is seperate?
> I'm
> not running computer. What would constitute "low RPM" for the circuit? As
> soon
> as it gets above 1200RPM, it's smooth. Every thing else is good or
> changed, IE
> plugs, wires, cap, rotor. Fires consistently under the timing light, but
> thats
> about all I can think of. Dorian

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:23:06 -0400
From: Dan Boone <boone.dan@acd.net>
Subject: 70 442 W30 CONV for sale

Well people here it is , my baby, my 1970 442 W30 Convertible. I am
considering selling this car. Both my wife and myself have had our jobs
threatened many times so we have decided to prepare our selves for the
worst. It seems that wall street is more important than people are these
days.

The car has 43,000 original miles, it is matador red with a white top
and interior, automatic, power windows and locks, tilt column, am-fm
stereo, air conditioning, power trunk, bench seat, and shiny original
paint. I am the second owner and know a lot of the cars history. This
car is very complete and numbers matching, you can still see the chalk
marks on the inside of the front fenders. The car is not perfect but it
sure gets a lot of attention when I drive it.

I am looking for two things, the first is an idea of its value  and
second the names of interested people. Please respond to me privately.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 08:42:51 -0500
From: Thomas Martin <Thomas_Martin@css.mot.com>
Subject: RE:  Suspension And Electrical

Summit has a 140 amp alternator that should fit.  I think it is $140.
This is nearly identical to the one on the 91 Cadillac 4.9L V8 (w/o
Heated front glass) except for the connector, it is a CS144, 140 amp
output.  The GN Regal had the CS144, but it was a 120 amp output.  You
need one bad.  If you are creative, you can add it to the smog pump
mounting brackets if you can get rid of the smog pump.

Summit also has kits to rebuild the 10SI @ 87 amp that you should have
to 100 amp.  The CS130 is a 105 amp, used on nearly all the new cars
today.  Very difficult to rebuild if you are not into that.  Requires
soldering, cutting crimps just to dissemble.  I have done a couple, but
parts are hard to get.  JC Whitney has parts for the CS Series.

Autozone had the CS144 for the Cadillac 4.9L (91) for $100, but it has
different connectors on it than what is stock in the G-Body.  I have
seen a 88-89 B-Body (Safari) wagon with the 307 and the CS130 105 amp
factory.  So it can be done.

Cadillac always had the big alternators, so check there for OEM stuff,
and then look aftermarket for larger alternators.

Thomas Martin
85 Cutlass Supreme Rocket 350 CCC
91 Bonneville LE 3800
80 Turbo Trans AM 400 Pontiac

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 08:58:04 -0500
From: Thomas Martin <Thomas_Martin@css.mot.com>
Subject: RE: Suspension And Electrical

As for alignment getting hosed.  Check the tie rods and ball joints.  My
91 Bonneville had a bad inner tie rod (rack and pinion) and the twerp
doing the alignment did not check.  So I waxed a new set of tires in a
year.  I caught it after a 800 mile trip and realized what it was.  I
was moving and was not going back for a tie rod complaint.  Cost me $50
for the tool to replace it and $40 for the rod.  This is unique for a
rack and pinion, not characteristic of a "real" car.

I had my wife move the steering back and forth quickly and I put my hand
on the tie rod end and I could feel the movement.  So I replaced both
inner tie rods.  Worked good, then I aligned it myself.  When I had an
official alignment, it was .02 degrees toe in.  I was pleased.  That is
what I set.  2 6 foot X 2 in bar stock, 2 identical tape measures, and
12 bricks to support it.  Works for me!

Thomas Martin
85 Cutlass Supreme Rocket 350 CCC
91 Bonneville LE 3800
80 Turbo Trans AM 400 Pontiac

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 10:24:36 -0400
From: "Donald Murphy" <DONAMURPHY@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Parts request

Wanted for 72 Oldsmobile Cuttlas Supreme - lower rocker panel molding
retaining washers.  Thank You.  Danny

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 10:19:07 -0400
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: Soylent no Start is hotwiring to Solenoid Bad?

...Is it BAD to send full 12v directly to switched terminals on
solenoid?...

Thanks in advance.
KA
&SOM
_________

Not bad at all - this is exactly what happens when one turns the key to
start anyway.  I had a similar problem, which I finally attributed to
excessive resistance in the wiring from the key to the starter.  After 30+
years, a little corrosion on each terminal takes its toll.  Hotwiring is an
effective bandaid (consider putting a high-current pushbutton switch under
the hood - when problems arise, turn the key to RUN, raise the hood, and
hit the starter button...also useful for bumping the motor over when
setting the points), but the long-term solution is to clean every terminal
or connection in the chain.  Good luck with that one.

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:28:30 -0500
From: Lance Kistner <lkistner@insul-8.com>
Subject: RE: Bought my 70 442 again

With that said....what does the 442 stand for?

- -----Original Message-----
From:	Peter Landowski [SMTP:PETTRIX@prodigy.net]
Sent:	Tuesday, July 21, 1998 6:01 PM
To:	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject:	Re: Bought my 70 442 again

I had some guy at a gas station (shell mechanic) ask me if my 72 442 had a
442 C.I. motor in it. I didn't want to make him look dum so I told him that
the 442 stood for something completely different than the engine size.

 Or better yet I was at Pep Boys getting a 4 core radiator for my Olds and
the lady behind the counter stated " I had a 72 442, it had a 454, boy did
it move". Well what can you do, it's a Chevy world out there and we are the
minority.

- ----------
> From: Kerry Kroger <kerryk@mci2000.com>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Bought my 70 442 again
> Date: Tuesday, July 21, 1998 5:17 PM
>
> dont you hate it when they ask if it still has" the original four forty
two
> in it"...kk
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Sparks (aka Mr. Ada) <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Date: Tuesday, July 21, 1998 11:23 AM
> Subject: Re: Bought my 70 442 again
>
>
> >babbott@pdnt.com wrote:
> >
> >> guy commented on my car. He said "I had one of those four fourty two's
> >> once"...... Don't ya hate it when people say that? Wish me luck, this
is
> >
> >At least he didn't say Forty Four two!  :-)
> >
> >--
> >Chris Sparks
> >68 442 SC - Frosty
> >68 442 HT - Scarlet
> >68 442 HT - Saffron
> >82 DRB    - Dr. "B"
> >http://www.catalina-inter.net/mrada
> >
> >
> >

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 10:35:03 -0400
From: tgstoner@umich.edu
Subject: Eliminating Urine Smell

On Tue, 21 Jul 1998 "babbott@pdnt.com" <babbott@pdnt.com> wrote:
> . . . BTW...how do you remove mouse urine smell?
*************************
I had this problem in my '87 Buick LeSabre T-Type after I quit driving it
on a regular basis, but in my case the source of the problem wasn't in the
interior of the car.  The mice had taken up residence under the hood, where
the underhood insulation pad made for convenient nest-building material.
The urine had ended up in the cowl vent area, at the base of the
windshield.  Since this car, like any late-model GM design, had flow
through ventilation which had its air source at that cowl vent and could
never be turned completely off, the oder couldn't be kept out of the
passenger compartment as the car was driven.  And of course as it was
driven, the firewall area heated up and the problem became much worse.
Short trips around town didn't heat things up enough for the problem to be
more than just noticable, but that 240 mile trip up the state got pretty
bad before I'd arrived.

My initial attempts to eliminate the problem involved running a garden hose
into that same vent for about half an hour and that did help just a little.
But nowhere near enough for another 240 mile trip.  I then tried several
different home-use type cleaning and deoderizing products which were either
poured into the vent full strength, or disolved in water and poured down
there.  The final thing I did and the thing which was most effective at
finally eliminating the oder, was to take a urinal deoderizer block from
the supply at work, break it up into pieces small enough to be put down the
vent, and shove them in.  Of course for several weeks the car then had the
smell of the block inside, but remember that I wasn't driving it on a
regular basis then anyway.  And when the deoderizer block smell disappered,
the urine smell was gone as well.  I've since sold the car and it's just
recently changed hands once again and is currently being repainted at a
shop just around the corner from where I work.  No one has mentioned the
smell ever having come back.

Tom Stoner
Oldsmobile Club of America #3943
Ann Arbor, MI
tgstoner@umich.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 10:31:37 -0400
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Motor F/S

Found this while surfing.  Email him, not me.  Usual disclaimers, yadda,
yadda:

FOR SALE: Engines -- 455 oldsmobile engine. built by dick miller racing.
best of everything. 500 hp. 545 lb. tq.
runs 11;70 in 4200 lb. car through exaust. dot tires. no nitrous. fresh
last season. building batton motor,changing
class. complete carb to pan. $ 5775.00 or will sell short block.? --
Lower/Middle US -- quartermile@interlinks.net


Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 07:46:26 -0700
From: Kerry Kroger <kerryk@MCI2000.com>
Subject: Re: Spark trivia, was splitfires, wierd stuff, etc...

point taken however been in electronics most of my life and voltage is
indeed electrical pressure but it does indeed nowhere you are right though
current flows but voltage does not the thing I was trying to get across is
that the current flows from negative to positive the voltage is a difference
in potential between pos and ground...kk
- -----Original Message-----
From: Andersons <robertan@cfw.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Tuesday, July 21, 1998 9:50 PM
Subject: Re: Spark trivia, was splitfires, wierd stuff, etc...


>Sorry to have started this conversation, but I can't let that statement go.
>Contrary to popular opinion, voltage does not "go" anywhere.  It is simply
a
>measurement of potential to create current.
>
>Use the hydraulic analogy to clarify:  garden hose.  The hose is the
>"conductor".  The pressure on the spigot is "voltage", with "positive" at
>the house, and "negative" , or "neutral" at the open end.  Water going thru
>the hose is "conventional current".  The kink in the hose is "resistance".
>Does this help?
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Kerry Kroger <kerryk@mci2000.com>
>To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
>Date: Tuesday, July 21, 1998 6:24 PM
>Subject: Re: Spark trivia, was splitfires, wierd stuff, etc...
>
>
>>correction number one current flows from negative to positive voltage goes
>>the other way
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Andersons <robertan@cfw.com>
>>To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
>>Date: Monday, July 20, 1998 9:51 PM
>>Subject: Re: Spark trivia, was splitfires, wierd stuff, etc...
>>
>>
>>>True, that there are many frames of reference when discussing electrical
>>>"current".  Conventional current, like in the "I" part of Ohm's law, is
>>>defined as flowing from positive to negative, and at the speed of light,
>>>incidentally.  It's kind of an imaginary thing.  Electron flow, like in
>the
>>>movement of atomic particles, goes the opposite way, and at a
>significantly
>>>slower speed.  It is this movement, and the friction developed, that
>causes
>>>heating of conductors.
>>>
>>>Great topic for 1 AM conversation?  Good nite.
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: KarlAune@aol.com <KarlAune@aol.com>
>>>To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
>>>Date: Tuesday, July 21, 1998 12:24 AM
>>>Subject: Re: Spark trivia, was splitfires, wierd stuff, etc...
>>>
>>>
>>>>In a message dated 98-07-20 22:29:09 EDT, you write:
>>>>
>>>><< On a plug, which part is the negative electrode, and ~why~???  If no
>>one
>>>>gets,  I'll answer tomorrow.  (remind me, if I forget! ;) >>
>>>>
>>>>Unfortunately, there are two schools of thoughts on the behavior of
>>>electrons.
>>>>
>>>>Physicists, and Chemists.
>>>>
>>>>Physicysts believe that "holes" (essentially spots of low potential that
>>>>electrons may fill) flow from pos to neg.
>>>>
>>>>Chemists believe that electrons flow from regions of high negative
>>>potential
>>>>to low negative (or more positive) potential.
>>>>
>>>>Essentially these two describe the same situation. They just confuse
>>poeple
>>>>much more than if ther were one doctrine.
>>>>But then, that is what physicists are for.
>>>>
>>>>The negative electrode is the outside plug terminal. Because it is
>>>connected
>>>>to the block and thereby to the battery (high negative potential) and
>arcs
>>>to
>>>>the center plug electrode, which is closer to the potential of the coil
>>and
>>>>positive batt cable. The coil actually generates a higher positive
>>>potential,
>>>>drawing spark more vigorously across the plug electrodes.
>>>>
>>>>But as Someone must be getting more confused, this is a good time to
shut
>>>up
>>>>until someone asks a specific question.
>>>>
>>>>KA
>>>>&SOM
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 11:15:13 -0400
From: tgstoner@umich.edu
Subject: RE: '79 Hurst/Oldsmobiles and Turbocharged Buicks

On Tue, 21 Jul 1998 Chad Schwartz <ChadS@pcsco.com> wrote:

> . . .Maybe I should stick to Buick Grand Nationals because I definitely
> know that of all them in '87 were black, had 3.8L Buick V6 Turbo
> engines, and hauled ass! :-)

********************
But not all of the turbocharged V6 Regals in 1987 were Grand Nationals,
were they?  Didn't they also still make the Regal T-Type with the
tubrocharged engine in 1987?  And of course the T-Types were available in
colors other than black too.  Of course all of the Buick Grand Nationals
were painted black, regardless of year and even including the few 1986
LeSabre Grand Nationals which were built.

Now I know that Buick had made many improvements in the turbocharged V6 by
1987, including fuel injection.  Weren't they also intercooled by then as
well too?  But back in 1979 when your Hurst/Olds was new, the Buick turbo
package used a 4 barrel carb though and was rated at only 180 horsepower.
That compared about equally to the 170 horsepower rating for the Olds 350
V8 in your H/O.  I know this well, because I raced our '79 Century Turbo
Coupe against my wife in our '79 H/O on more than one occasion, and neither
car had an upper hand.

Speaking of true dual, semi-dual, and single exhaust systems, your
Hurst/Olds should be what I'd classify as a single system.  It should have
a crossover pipe and single cat and muffler.  The only difference from it
and the exhaust system used on a '79 Calais with the Olds 260 V-8, would be
that the muffler has two outlets.  Now, my '79 Century Tubro Coupe had a
crossover pipe and a single converter, but a "Y" pipe behind the cat and
only dual chambered pipes and no mufflers back to the rear.  Is your '87
Grand National the same semi-dual configuration?  Regardless, enjoy both
your Hurst/Olds and Grand National.

Tom Stoner
Oldsmobile Club of America #3943
Ann Arbor, MI
tgstoner@umich.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 11:23:25 -0400
From: tgstoner@umich.edu
Subject: RE: 1970 442 Ram Air Question

Joseph Aguilar <aguilar@courier8.aero.org> wrote:
> I have a question about a 1970 442 (non W-30).  If you ordered the
> ram air package (W25), did you also get the air cleaner assembly?
> Or did the air cleaner assembly only come with the W Machines
> (i.e. W30, W31)?
*******************
Joseph,

The W-25 option included both the fiberglass hood AND the air cleaner in
1970 to 1972.  Without the air cleaner to mate up with the hood and make
use of those scoops, it wouldn't have been a "ram air package".

Tom Stoner
Oldsmobile Club of America #3943
Ann Arbor, MI
tgstoner@umich.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 10:50:50 -0500
From: "Smetana, Christopher" <csmetana@dowagro.com>
Subject: RE: Bought my 70 442 again

There was a guy in Springfield whose vanity plate said
'4 forty 2'
or something like that

Chris Smetana
Terre Haute, IN
work: csmetana@dowagro.com

1969 W-31
1969 4-4-2 parts car
plus others

>----------
>From: 	Lance Kistner[SMTP:lkistner@insul-8.com]
>Sent: 	Wednesday, July 22, 1998 9:28 AM
>To: 	'oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca'
>Subject: 	RE: Bought my 70 442 again
>
>With that said....what does the 442 stand for?
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:	Peter Landowski [SMTP:PETTRIX@prodigy.net]
>Sent:	Tuesday, July 21, 1998 6:01 PM
>To:	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>Subject:	Re: Bought my 70 442 again
>
>I had some guy at a gas station (shell mechanic) ask me if my 72 442 had a
>442 C.I. motor in it. I didn't want to make him look dum so I told him that
>the 442 stood for something completely different than the engine size.
>
> Or better yet I was at Pep Boys getting a 4 core radiator for my Olds and
>the lady behind the counter stated " I had a 72 442, it had a 454, boy did
>it move". Well what can you do, it's a Chevy world out there and we are the
>minority.
>
>----------
>> From: Kerry Kroger <kerryk@mci2000.com>
>> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>> Subject: Re: Bought my 70 442 again
>> Date: Tuesday, July 21, 1998 5:17 PM
>>
>> dont you hate it when they ask if it still has" the original four forty
>two
>> in it"...kk
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Chris Sparks (aka Mr. Ada) <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
>> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
>> Date: Tuesday, July 21, 1998 11:23 AM
>> Subject: Re: Bought my 70 442 again
>>
>>
>> >babbott@pdnt.com wrote:
>> >
>> >> guy commented on my car. He said "I had one of those four fourty two's
>> >> once"...... Don't ya hate it when people say that? Wish me luck, this
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 11:21:28 -0500
From: "Smetana, Christopher" <csmetana@dowagro.com>
Subject: 69 brake drum color

All right this has been bugging me a little bit....all right a lot.  I'm
trying to figure out what the correct color for brake drums are on a 69
Cutlass/4-4-2 and it's many configurations.  In checking my assembly
manual (the one thats hard to read)  I noticed it states that brake
drums should be painted code 384 (I believe that's the code), but I
can't find what color that code is supposed to be (black or grey).
I checked some cars in Lansing briefly and I also made it a point to
take some notes of cars in Springfield, but I'm still not sure.
In Springfield, there was a 69 4-4-2 W-30 convert that had IL vanity
plates 'one of 91' that had front drums and they where grey.  I also
looked at an unrestored 69 W-32 and the rear drums looked to be black
(car had front discs).  I also spied a 69 W-30 post coupe (which
incidently was an auto on the column car, don't remember if bench or
bucket) that had front drums painted black.
Also, if I remember right, when I was up at Bob Cline's house last Oct
(owns Desert Dog Auto Parts) I saw his 69 4-4-2 convert and his rear
drums where grey (front disc car, he's owned it 20 yrs but I didn't
think to ask what color the drums are supposed to be).  So as you can
see I'm a little confused.  I have an all wheel drum car and I would
guess that it's highly unlikely that front disc and front drum cars used
different colors on their drums, but ya never know.  Does anyone know
what color the drums are supposed to be?  Or know what color code 384
is?
I figured I would start restoring a few little things first like
radiator top plate and air cleaner, so I can install those fine decals I
picked up from Mark Cornea, and also thought I would tackle the drums
(which are all of the original design BTW, instead of the more common
replacement design) and blast and paint those.  But I don't know which
color they should be.  Can someone help me out and shed some light on
this.  Thanks in advance.

Chris Smetana
Terre Haute, IN
work: csmetana@dowagro.com

1969 W-31 with one red front drum from a 4-4-2 and 3 'rusty' drums
1969 4-4-2 parts car
plus others

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 12:20:41 EDT
From: <CRuper1@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Soylent no Start is hotwiring to Solenoid Bad? Hmmmm...

In a message dated 98-07-22 01:19:03 EDT, you write:

<<
 Get to work.
 Yellow wire OK (I think).
 Purple one (got solid 12v earlier) is suspect.
 Pull male connectors from connector housing.
 Insert male connectors into female housing.
 ((Ooooooh! I feel giddy....))  <----------------- Uh-oh... I can see where
this is going....
 Idiot lights, No start.
 Karl get out electrical stuffs.
 Cut purple wire before female connector.
 Crimp on a female coupling that fits male one. <------ For a tighter
fit...(always desirable)...     :-)


<< Tries to start, shorting somewhere.
 Waiting for car to cool so I can examine connections to starter.
 Quick Q before I do. >>

Have fun with your electrical problems, and calm down some....

Chris Ruper

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 12:27:00 -0400
From: tgstoner@umich.edu
Subject: Michigan Cars For Sale

I spotted the following two Oldsmobiles sitting near the road with "for
sale" signs on them while on vacation last week.  I didn't have the
opportunity to stop and look at either of them and therefore have no idea
of their history or who's attempting to sell them, so the usual disclaimers
apply:

1979 Toronado - black and I believe with a factory moonroof.  Sitting on
the north side of M-72, about 1/4 mile east of Elk Lake Road in
Williamsburg, Michigan (That's about 10 miles northeast of Traverse City
and 12 miles west of Kalkaska).  The car appears to be straight, and looks
pretty good  At least it does when you drive by at 55 miles per hour..  I
don't believe it is a diesel so it should be a 350 gas V-8, rather than a
307 like the later ones.  It also wouldn't have an overdrive transmission.
Asking price not visible during a drive-by and therefore unknown.  It's
predicted to hit 102 degrees there today, so somebody buy this poor puppy
before it melts!

G-body 442 - medium grey over silver and wearing a bra although it's barely
old enough to possibly need one.  Exact year is unknown, but didn't they
only make these from 1985 to 1987?  I didn't notice a sunroof or T-Tops.
Sitting on the northwest corner of Elk Lake and Park Roads, approximately 3
miles north of M-72 and Williamsburg, Michigan.  This car also appears to
be straight and again looks pretty good when driving by at 55.  It was
noticably covered in dust though.  Again, the asking price was not visible
during my drive-by.

I'll be back in the Williamsburg area in about 5 weeks and will gladly take
the time to check either of these out if they're still there, for anyone
who might be interested.  E-Mail me privately at the address below.

Finally, a car I am familiar with is also sitting in a front yard currently
with a "for sale" sign on it.  This one is the 1979 Hurst/Olds which my
wife and I owned from July 1981 until August 1997 and it's located just to
the northeast of the intersection of US-23 and M-36 outside of Hamburg,
Michigan.  This car had just a little more than 35,000 miles on it when we
sold it for $6,700 last year.  At that time, it needed a bit of clean-up
and restoration work under the hood but was original and otherwise quite
nice.  I've not stopped to look at it, but I understand that the present
owner has done that under-hood work.  I believe that he thinks the car is
rarer and therefore worth more than it really is though, so it might be a
tough purchase.  I've heard that he was asking $8,000 or more for it.  If
anyone is interested in more information, E-Mail me privately.  I can
provide the current owner's name and telephone number.

Tom Stoner
Oldsmobile Club of America #3943
Ann Arbor, MI
tgstoner@umich.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 12:32:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: Edwin R Burger <erb22@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu>
Subject: what's my car worth? (70 442)

It's a '70 442.  I was almost done the resto when the engine got a rod
knock.  The engine is out right now getting rebuilt.  The body is
straight and rust free.  It is in primer right now, but I will have it
painted as soon as the engine is back in place.  It has air, auto, ps, pb,
posi (3.23), SSII's, front disks.  No wing or OAI.  The engine
has a few performance pieces on it.  Holley carb, Offy intake, cam,
accel coil, HEI dist.  It has 3 chamber flowmasters on it, with a new
exhaust system.  The interior is very clean, console shifter.  I cleaned
the underside and put undercoating on it.

What is the car worth now (with rod knock and primer), and what will it
be worth after the rebuild and paint?

Thanks,
Ed

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 13:18:51 -0000
From: "RANDY A GEISEL" <RANDYGEISEL@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Bought my 70 442 again

>With that said....what does the 442 stand for?


Originally it stood for 4V, 4-speed, dual exhaust

Randy

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 13:27:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: The Viking <avar@infinet.com>
Subject: Re: D.Millers Olds Nationals

I will be there!  it is a great time and a great track

Al Varhus
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.infinet.com/~avar
http://www.infinet.com/~avar/olds.html
Oldsmobile Club of America # 29111
  Mid Ohio Chapter #136
  Gem City Rockets


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 13:24:24 -0000
From: "RANDY A GEISEL" <RANDYGEISEL@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: fan clutch question

>Anybody know the difference between a regular fan clutch and a thermal?

Non-thermal clutch kicks in and out based on rpm's
Thermal kicks in at a certain temperature.
Look at the front of your clutch, if it has a metal coil it's a thermal
clutch. Non-thermals don't have the coil.

Randy

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 13:33:40 -0400
From: "Mark Cornea (R)" <mcornea@ford.com>
Subject: [Fwd: 1986 Olds Cutlass 442]

LNUSTRUK.NZ8C0F@gmeds.com wrote:
>
> Mark,
> My name's John Merle. I'm on the Street Rocket's roster as the only 1986 442.
I > met you guys at the Big Boys on Woodward on June 22nd. > Sorry it's taken 
me
so long to get around to mailing you but things have been > busy (to say the
least.) Unfortunately, not in a good way. > I'm afraid I have some bad news. My
442 is out of order. The engine needs > rebuilding to get back on the road.
When it broke down, it was hit from the > rear. This damage from this is 
minimal
(restricted to the rear foot of the > driver's side quarter, taillight, and 
rear
bumper ). > As much as I hate to do it I'm going to have to put it up for sale.
I don't > know if you have a spot in the newsletter for this sort of thing, but
I'd like > to see the car go to someone who will appreciate it and give it the
care I > can't afford. (for that matter, maybe someone I could keep in touch
with to see > how it comes along.) > It has a lot of features - the 
transmission
has been rebuilt and only has about > 3000 miles on it, the doors have been
replaced and several panels have been > refinished (I spent $2200 on this body
work in April (tax money). Wish I had > that money now.) It has the electric
moonroof. It has been given a lot of love > and is VERY clean. brakes, air
suspension, tires are all less than a year old. > This car must be seen to be
appreciated. > I'm asking $1800 for it but will take offers from serious 
parties
who want to > look at the car. > Let me know if you have room in the newsletter
for this sort of thing or any > ideas. > Thanks, > John Merle > (248)203-0323
home > (248)753-4618 work (M-F 6am-4:30pm)

	Lists members,
		I received this note yesterday, maybe someone is interested in 
it?
E-mail John at <LNUSTRUK.NZ8C0F@gmeds.com>

       ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
          Mark Cornea (Dr Decal) `70 W30 stick ~ Red (of course)

                              <mailto:drdecal442@aol.com>
                              <mailto:mcornea@ford.com>

            Visit <http://members.aol.com/drdecal442/mcr.html>

              See us at the OPC Meet 7/31-8/1 in Fairborn OH

            OCA# 4903
       	    OPC# 14
       ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 13:45:19 EDT
From: <JonKrisInc@aol.com>
Subject: Re: fan clutch question

In a message dated 98-07-22 13:33:51 EDT, you write:

<< Non-thermal clutch kicks in and out based on rpm's
 Thermal kicks in at a certain temperature.
 Look at the front of your clutch, if it has a metal coil it's a thermal
 clutch. Non-thermals don't have the coil.
  >>
 Randy,
Thanks for the data. Mine is a thermal clutch. I've since learned they make
two types: regular and one for heavy duty cooling systems. How can I tell
which one I have? Would AC necessarily make it heavy duty?
tia
Bruce
75 Delta 88 conv  w/AC.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 14:01:06 EDT
From: <Grift90837@aol.com>
Subject: TH350 downshift cable

I have a 73 Olds cutlass that supossesly had a new tranny put in when i bought
it.
Unfortunatly the downshift cable is missing. I've been told that it is suposed
to hook to the carb by some people and to the gaspedal by others.
 If it hooked the the pedal the cable would seem to be pulled at WOT, if at
the carb it would seem to be pushed at WOT. I have no idea about how automatic
transmissions work.
Can anyone help? this seems to be the only thing that needs to be done to the
car to get it running. it was bought from a guy that was restoring it and
"Only needed a few things hooked up to finish it".

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 14:13:29 -0400
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: TH350 downshift cable

I have a 73 Olds cutlass that supossesly had a new tranny put in when i
bought
it.
Unfortunatly the downshift cable is missing...
______________

All the TH350s I've seen have the downshift cable set up to be _pulled_ at
WOT.  They typically pass through the firewall in the general vicinity of
the throttle cable and attach to the gas pedal.  All the 69-72 A-body cars
use this arrangement.  Unfortunately, I'm not that familiar with the 73-up
cars.

I also have a dim recollection of seeing a car (the year and type escapes
me, unfortunately) with the downshift cable attached to the carb.  In this
case, the carb's throttle lever extended below the throttle shaft to allow
the downshift cable to be connected in a "pull" configuration.

The easy way to determine if your car had the cable attached to the gas
pedal is to look at the firewall near the throttle cable.  If there is
another square punched out hole, your downshift cable should connect to the
gas pedal.
_______________

"Only needed a few things hooked up to finish it".
_______________

Right up there with "Check's in the mail", "I'll respect you in the
morning", and...

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 13:25:37 -0500
From: David L Wyatt <WYATT_DAVID_L@lilly.com>
Subject: Re: TH350 downshift cable

Generally these cables mount right below the throttle cable on the carb and
are pulled.  This cable is only for down shifting, AKA passing gear.  You can
run the car without it, the transmission will just shift earlier than usual
under heavy throttle.  Also if you pull out to pass, the car will not
downshift when you hit the gas, you will have to downshift manually.  I run
mine disconnected in my m*libu street/strip car because I need to short shift
the tranny manually for consistency.  It is a little bit of a pain on the
street when passing, but I can live with it and it's not worth the trouble to
reconnect it each time.

Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 14:40:41 -0400
From: "Mike Rothe." <hurstolds@xtalwind.net>
Subject: Re: 69 brake drum color

> All right this has been bugging me a little bit....all right a lot.  I'm
> trying to figure out what the correct color for brake drums are on a 69
> Cutlass/4-4-2

I do know this.  The drums were painted 384 ONLY if it had the SSI or II
wheels.  Otherwise they were left natural.  I can only suspect that it
is a shade of black or VERY dark grey.  I'm basing this ONLY on my
somewhat rememberance of my dad's 1970 Cutlass he bought new when I was
a kid.  Had the SSI wheels.  He was rotating the tires on it, and I'm
pretty sure the rear drum was black looking.   I know this isn't
definitive proof, but, well, it's the best I got.  The 71 assembly
manual has the IDENTICAL picture and paint codes in it as the '69, so I
don't think there was any change.

FWIW, in 1985, my 442 came from the factory with unpainted rear drums
with SSIII.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 14:44:13 -0400
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: Price busters - '69-'77 brake calipers

Going through back digests from when I was on vacation.  Sorry if this has
already been answered:
______________

...Can I use 69-77 calipers on a 68 rotor?...

- - --
Chris Sparks
______________

Yes, however you also need the 69-72 caliper brackets.  These bolt on to
your spindles, replacing the 67-68 brackets for the four-piston calipers.
I know somebody is repro-ing these brackets now.  The 67-68 calipers are
fixed to the bracket, while the 68-up calipers "float" to compensate for
rotor runout.  You'll also need the caliper mounting pins (available at
most out parts stores

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 12:46:29 -0600
From: Eric <big_olds@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: TH350 downshift cable

Grift90837@aol.com wrote:
> Unfortunatly the downshift cable is missing. I've been told that it is 
suposed
> to hook to the carb by some people and to the gaspedal by others.
My 1975 Cutlass, I believe hooked to the gas pedal.  Now I have a Turbo
400 and no kick-down.

> Can anyone help? this seems to be the only thing that needs to be done to the
> car to get it running. it was bought from a guy that was restoring it and
> "Only needed a few things hooked up to finish it". {never believe that line}

This is a NON-REQUIRED option.  I have been in many that didn't have it,
and if Kick-down for passing is really required (as is sometimes the
case), pull the tranny into second manually...

Other than that, it's really not the end of the world..

Eric Aksomitis
http://www.dlcwest.com/~jed/cut_bl.shtml <-- No kick-down, works fine

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 12:52:30 -0600
From: Eric <big_olds@hotmail.com>
Subject: FWIW, abreviation H*%p Please

FWIW, can't place the meaning of that in my C.A.R. {Current
Abrevviations/Acronyms Remembered}

Mike Rothe. wrote:
> FWIW, in 1985, my 442 came from the factory with unpainted rear drums
> with SSIII.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 14:00:37 -0700
From: Steve Reed <ssreed@ibm.net>
Subject: Hi Amp Alternator Kit

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 11:11:11 EDT
>>From: <NjOlds@aol.com>
>> Subject: Suspension And Electrical

>>   I have a couple of questions about my G-Body.
>> 1.)  My Olds keeps falling out of alignment and I was wondering what is
making
>> it do that, what specific part can I change.  I was also thinking of buying
>> one of those complete suspension kits from P-S-T will that kill the
problem?

I don't have any great tips or suggestions on this one.


>> 2.)  I have close to 1000 watts of juice running in my sound system. Ever
>> since I put it in ( I'm taking a guess now ) my alternator hasn't been
>> charging right even when the sound system isn't on ( it still has the
original
>> alternator).  It used to stay around 13 Volts but now anytime I turn the
A/C
>> or the radio on or both at the same time the Volts drop to about 9 and
you can
>> tell it struggles to take off.  Even when the engine is at high RPM's it
stays
>> at or around 9 Volts.  What should I do??


When I rebuilt my '70 4-4-2 I got a 'High Amp Alternator Kit' from J.C.
Whitney.  It was cheap and it was rated ~ 100 amp output.  You definitely
need to charge well above 9 volts, preferably around 14.5.  If the system
isn't charging without any load on it, you definitely need to take a look
at the alternator.
	I'm sure there are other companies that make an 'upgrade' kit for the
alternator too.  I started buying all my parts in stages when I did my
restification.  God knows J.C Whitney can take months to get stuff on a UPS
truck!


>>Thanks in advance to anyone who gives their 2 cents.

>> Enio
>> ' 87 Olds Cutlass Supreme

- -Steve

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 15:01:24 -0400
From: "Mike Rothe." <hurstolds@xtalwind.net>
Subject: Re: FWIW, abreviation H*%p Please

Eric wrote:
>
> FWIW, can't place the meaning of that in my C.A.R. {Current
> Abrevviations/Acronyms Remembered}
>
> Mike Rothe. wrote:
> > FWIW, in 1985, my 442 came from the factory with unpainted rear drums
> > with SSIII.

For What It's Worth....

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 15:15:13 +0100
From: Matt Cremean <ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
Subject: Re: D.Millers Olds Nationals

WMACHINES@aol.com wrote:
>
> I want to know how many of you motorheads are going to particpate in the 1st
> annual Dick Miller Oldsmobile Nationals?  So to all the new people on the
> list, I am W MACHINES, I have a 72 442 W30 that I race on occasion each 
year.
> Its runs 12 teens in the 1/4.

I'll go....IF MY CAR IS DONE BY THEN!!!!!

- --
*************
Matt Cremean
mailto:ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
         777777 33333
            77      33
Cutlass    77    3333   Supreme
          77        33
         77     33333
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/
**************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 15:10:36 EDT
From: <KarlAune@aol.com>
Subject: Need 1965-7 (??) early pattern flywheel for 425

You got it.

Title says it all.

I *may* need one, but if so, need yesterday!

Please send *privately* price including cost of shipping next-day air!

KarlAune@aol.com

TIA

KA
&SOM

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 15:10:35 EDT
From: <KarlAune@aol.com>
Subject: Soylent's Fly(wheel) is Caught in......

The starting motor gear?

Much work last night&this morning.

Now on third starter this month.
Turn key....clicliclicliclilcilcliclick from solenoid.

Get under there.....starter gear stuck on flywheel...?

So Karl shims.....

And shims......

And shims.......???

And is now so frustrated that calls his mech for tow.

On hearing the prob, the first words he said included "flywheel."

DOH!!!

So, anybody got an early (1965- 7?) bolt pattern flywheel lying about?

How much do you want and how soon can you ship....

TIA

KA
&SOM

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 12:13:56 -0700
From: "Chris Sparks (aka Mr. Ada)" <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Subject: Re: Price busters - '69-'77 brake calipers

Joe,

> Going through back digests from when I was on vacation.  Sorry if this has
> already been answered:

Noone answered it so far until now.

> ...Can I use 69-77 calipers on a 68 rotor?...
>
> Yes, however you also need the 69-72 caliper brackets.  These bolt on to
> your spindles, replacing the 67-68 brackets for the four-piston calipers.

Are the spindles the same in disc brake setups for 68s (four-piston) and
69-72s(two-piston)?

> I know somebody is repro-ing these brackets now.  The 67-68 calipers are
> fixed to the bracket, while the 68-up calipers "float" to compensate for
> rotor runout.  You'll also need the caliper mounting pins (available at
> most out parts stores

The reason why I ask is that restoring the 68 (four piston) caliper is
costly.
What about the rotors?  If I have 68 rotors, will the other caliper do fine?

- --
Chris Sparks
68 442 SC - Frosty
68 442 HT - Scarlet
68 442 HT - Saffron
82 DRB    - Dr. "B"
http://www.catalina-inter.net/mrada

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 15:25:15 -0400
From: Wayne Schwartz <wschwart@iaw.on.ca>
Subject: moving to Galveston Texas

Thanks to all who responded to my note and had the patience to answer my
questions.  Greg Schwartz

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 15:20:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Clayton Pierce <zcwp11@Access.ETSU.Edu>
Subject: re: off topic (really on topic)

 Wed, 22 Jul 1998 01:45:59 EDT
From: <DYeager535@aol.com>
Subject: Re: off topic

In a message dated 98-07-22 01:43:20 EDT, you write:

Actually the '84 Olds Delta 88 I'll be towing home soon has a BOP pattern
700R4 in it.  No adapter needed here... currently attached to the original
OLDSMOBILE 307!


    |        Peace, Goodwill, and happy Oldsmobilling,
   /|\       Clayton Pierce,
  / | \      school:  zcwp11@Access.ETSU.edu
 |  |  |     home:  the_rocketeer@rocketmail.com
 |  |  |     work:  GQPR12E@Prodigy.com
 |  |  |
 | / \ |     "There's no replacement for displacement!"
 |/   \|
  \   /      1984 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
   \ /          (RIP) (350, 4bbl, TH400, 3.73:1, 80k miles)
    |        1980 Rover 3500 SD1
		(215 V8, FI, BW66, 85k miles)
	     1965 Pontiac Bonneville Sports Coupe
		(389, 4bbl, TH400, 110k miles) "Look ma' no EGR!"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 15:25:46 +0100
From: Matt Cremean <ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
Subject: Where can I get good gears?

It seems that Richmond and Auburn don't like my kind of rear end (as
they only make 30 spline gears), so who else can i get in contact with
to get some rear gears for my car (28 splines)? I'm looking for 3.42
specifically.
- --
*************
Matt Cremean
mailto:ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
         777777 33333
            77      33
Cutlass    77    3333   Supreme
          77        33
         77     33333
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/
**************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 14:35:45 -0700
From: Steve Reed <ssreed@ibm.net>
Subject: 455 Crankshaft Questions

Let me start off by explaining my current situation and then I'll ask a few
questions.  I bought a '70 4-4-2 ragtop 4-speed 5 years ago.  The car came
with a 350, and an M-22 installed in it instead of the original 455 &
Automatic.  After about 6 months of driving the 350 kicked a few rods out.
I was then able to locate a rotted parts car which had a 455 & M21.  While
working as a machinist I rebuilt the 455, but was NOT able to use the
crankshaft from this engine.  The journals were too pitted and would have
required grinding.  I was then able to get another crank, this time being
from an ~automatic~ car (I didn't know this @ the time, I forgot to check
for pilot bearing/bushing).  I had the entire rotating assembly balanced by
another machinist.
	When I was assembling the M22 to the 455, I noticed that the 
transmission
would not sit flush against the bellhousing, it was bottoming out.  After
careful investigation, I came to find out the input shaft of a M21 & M22
differ slightly.  The tip of the shaft which rests on the pilot bushing is
~ .500 longer on the M22.  The M21 is approximately .500 long, and the M22
is ~ 1.00 long. Therefore the transmission input shaft was bottoming out in
the end of the crankshaft. (My dad was moving with I.B.M. and I only had 30
DAYS to go from a complete frame off to rolling chassis by myself, so I was
RUSHED to say the least.  )  So I ended up getting another clutch
(Different # of splines on the 2 transmissions) and used the M21.  The
assembly went together fine at this point.
	After I moved to Texas, I called the Olds guy who I got the automatic
crankshaft from, and he told me that he has run into this problem in the
past and has created a jig to drill out the crankshaft to accommodate an M22.

Questions:

1.  Can this crank be safely drilled another ~.625 to accommodate the M22?
I'd like to use the M22 since I have it, and the engine has been pepped up
a little from stock W-30 specs.  Has anyone done this?

2.  I contacted R.H.S. and they have 455 cranks, and can balance them (If I
do decide to go with an entirely different/new crank) The machinist said
that I would have to find out the bob weights used on the crank when the
balancing job was done.  This sounds right to me, does anyone have any
experience in balancing engines?

Thanx for listening/reading.  Any help is appreciated!

- -Steve
'70 4-4-2
Austin, TX

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 15:38:27 -0400
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: Price busters - '69-'77 brake calipers

...Are the spindles the same in disc brake setups for 68s (four-piston) and
69-72s(two-piston)?
_______________

The part numbers may not be exactly the same, but the spindles are
functionally equivalent.  The differences are in the bolt-on caliper
bracket.
_______________

The reason why I ask is that restoring the 68 (four piston) caliper is
costly.
What about the rotors?  If I have 68 rotors, will the other caliper do
fine?
_______________

I had a hunch.  Everything I've read indicates that the 69-up calipers will
work with the 67-68 rotors, due to the ability of the later calipers to
"float" side to side.  The converse (early calipers on later rotors)
apparently does not work due to minor differences in the centerline of the
rotor.  The early calipers are fixed on the bracket and cannot float to
match up with the newer rotor's centerline.  Are you rotors able to be
turned?  I was under the impression that these were difficult to get also.
If that turns out to be the case, you can just use the 69-72 rotors on your
early spindles (assuming you've already swapped the calipers and brackets,
of course).

As for the calipers themselves, one big advantage of the 69-up calipers
over the 67-68 units is that the later calipers use a piston seal fixed in
the bore and a chrome plated piston which slides in this seal.  The chrome
prevents the piston from rusting, and since the sliding surface is between
the piston and the seal, pitting in the caliper bore itself in relatively
unimportant.  Contrast this with the earlier (four-piston) calipers, where
the seals are fixed to the pistons (sort of like the engine's piston rings)
and thus the sliding contact is between the seal and the caliper bores.  In
this case, even minor pitting in the bores has an obviously detrimental
effect on sealing.  That's the reason why you see so many ads for companies
that put steel sleeves in these calipers.

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 15:48:51 -0400
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: Soylent's Fly(wheel) is Caught in......

On hearing the prob, the first words he said included "flywheel."

DOH!!!....

KA
&SOM
_____________

There must be an epidemic of this going around.  My crewcab dually was left
stranded by what sounded like a bad starter drive (starter spins, engine
doesn't crank).  Towed the truck home, raced to the autoparts store just
before closing to get a rebuilt starter (never has been replaced in 185,000
miles, so I figured I was pushing my luck anyway), pulled the old starter,
and just for the heck of it I felt the ring gear on the flexplate...

Guess what I plan on buying at Carlisle this weekend...  Not to mention
looking forward to having to pull not only the transmission, but also the
transfer case (did I mention it's a 4x4?).

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 15:51:46 -0400
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: re: off topic (really on topic)

Actually the '84 Olds Delta 88 I'll be towing home soon has a BOP pattern
700R4 in it.  No adapter needed here... currently attached to the original
OLDSMOBILE 307!


Peace, Goodwill, and happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton Pierce,
________________

Uh...I thought the 700R4 only came with a Chevy bolt pattern.  I'd be
willing to bet that 307 is driving a _200R4_.

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 12:59:11 PDT
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Soylent's Fly(wheel) is Caught in......

>Now on third starter this month.
>Turn key....clicliclicliclilcilcliclick from solenoid.
>
>Get under there.....starter gear stuck on flywheel...?

Gee, Karl, that sounds more like a weak battery to me.

>On hearing the prob, the first words he said included "flywheel."

I've heard starters trying to engage chewed-up flywheels before,
but they're usually making whining, free-spinning noises until
they can finally grab an adjacent tooth on the flywheel.

>So, anybody got an early (1965- 7?) bolt pattern flywheel lying
>about?

Can you take an inspection cover off the trans and look at the
teeth before taking all that stuff apart? Have you got clean and
tight cable connections (at _both_ ends of _both_ cables)?

- -- Andy

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 16:10:29 EDT
From: <DYeager535@aol.com>
Subject: Re: off topic (really on topic)

In a message dated 98-07-22 15:23:37 EDT, you write:

<< Actually the '84 Olds Delta 88 I'll be towing home soon has a BOP pattern
 700R4 in it.  No adapter needed here... currently attached to the original
 OLDSMOBILE 307! >>

Cool! Know I know that there are BOP bolt pattern 700r4's. I don't think
Summit or B&M advertise them in theor catalogs, and I had seen somewhere else
that they didn't make them. well, thats a vible alternative to the thm2004r
then isn't it?  Dorian

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 17:18:45 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: UNBOUNCE: 455 Crankshaft Questions

Not on the list, at least not at this address; respond to ssreed@ibm.net

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:	Steve Reed <ssreed@ibm.net>
Subject: 455 Crankshaft Questions

Let me start off by explaining my current situation and then I'll ask a few
questions.  I bought a '70 4-4-2 ragtop 4-speed 5 years ago.  The car came
with a 350, and an M-22 installed in it instead of the original 455 &
Automatic.  After about 6 months of driving the 350 kicked a few rods out.
I was then able to locate a rotted parts car which had a 455 & M21.  While
working as a machinist I rebuilt the 455, but was NOT able to use the
crankshaft from this engine.  The journals were too pitted and would have
required grinding.  I was then able to get another crank, this time being
from an ~automatic~ car (I didn't know this @ the time, I forgot to check
for pilot bearing/bushing).  I had the entire rotating assembly balanced by
another machinist.
	When I was assembling the M22 to the 455, I noticed that the 
transmission
would not sit flush against the bellhousing, it was bottoming out.  After
careful investigation, I came to find out the input shaft of a M21 & M22
differ slightly.  The tip of the shaft which rests on the pilot bushing is
~ .500 longer on the M22.  The M21 is approximately .500 long, and the M22
is ~ 1.00 long. Therefore the transmission input shaft was bottoming out in
the end of the crankshaft. (My dad was moving with I.B.M. and I only had 30
DAYS to go from a complete frame off to rolling chassis by myself, so I was
RUSHED to say the least.  )  So I ended up getting another clutch
(Different # of splines on the 2 transmissions) and used the M21.  The
assembly went together fine at this point.
	After I moved to Texas, I called the Olds guy who I got the automatic
crankshaft from, and he told me that he has run into this problem in the
past and has created a jig to drill out the crankshaft to accommodate an M22.

Questions:

1.  Can this crank be safely drilled another ~.625 to accommodate the M22?
I'd like to use the M22 since I have it, and the engine has been pepped up
a little from stock W-30 specs.  Has anyone done this?

2.  I contacted R.H.S. and they have 455 cranks, and can balance them (If I
do decide to go with an entirely different/new crank) The machinist said
that I would have to find out the bob weights used on the crank when the
balancing job was done.  This sounds right to me, does anyone have any
experience in balancing engines?

Thanx for listening/reading.  Any help is appreciated!

- -Steve
'70 4-4-2
Austin, TX

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #1383
*********************************
