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Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #1472


oldsmobile-digest    Wednesday, September 9 1998    Volume 01 : Number 1472



Re: Ideas on 455 Aircraft Engine.
Re: cam question 455
Re: MAYBE W-32?
Re: 455 Motors
Re: 70 350 motors (was Re: MAYBE W-32?)
Re: Rear gear on '86 Salon
Re: Ideas on 455 Aircraft Engine.
Re: Ideas on 455 Aircraft Engine.
Convertor
Re: Ideas on 455 Aircraft Engine.
Re: Ideas on 455 Aircraft Engine.
Re: 30,000 original mile '69 455? (Very long)
455 Olds AeroEngine
Re: where is the buzzer at help??
Re: Found; Cast Crank Pulley ????
Re: Rear gear on '86 Salon
Re: where is the buzzer at help??
Re: 70 350 motors (was Re: MAYBE W-32?)
(Event): All-Oldsmobile Funshow
how to determine your gear ratio...
Re: cam question 455
Re: how to determine your gear ratio...
Re: Ideas on 455 Aircraft Engine.
Re: MAYBE W-32?
How to determine rear gears
10th Annual CCR Fall Olds Show
Re: Ideas on 455 Aircraft Engine.
Re: who is running a holley or edelbrock?
Re: Information.. was Re: Toro Graveyard, revisited
Ch*tty Aircraft Engine and prospective 455
Re: arcing problem and spark plugs readings
Re: how to determine your gear ratio...
RE: 30,000 original mile '69 455? (Very long)
Goofy required options...(sorta like Hurst/Olds A/C)
need vin decipherd?
Re: Rear gear on '86 Salon
Re: Rear gear on '86 Salon
Re: how to determine your gear ratio...
RE: Best Quadrajet carb's?
RE: need vin decipherd?
torque conv. question
Re: how to determine your gear ratio...
Re: 70 350 motors (was Re: MAYBE W-32?)
1.50:1 gears
Re: MAYBE W-32?
Re: 1.50:1 gears
Re: how to determine your gear ratio...
Re: How to determine rear gears
Re: MAYBE W-32?
I thought I saw an Oldsmobile.  I did.  I did.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:21:11 EDT
From: KarlAune@aol.com
Subject: Re: Ideas on 455 Aircraft Engine.

In a message dated 98-09-08 13:45:21 EDT, you write:

<< Oh, yes, keep a separate battery for ignition only with a change-over
switch.

 All the above is fro conversations with Steve Wittman while writing his V8
 conversion manual. >>

Better: Parallel 1000ca batteries (well maintained).

Ah! A manual?
Is this published?
This could be fascinating!

SOM
&KA

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:21:14 EDT
From: KarlAune@aol.com
Subject: Re: cam question 455

In a message dated 98-09-07 14:31:37 EDT, you write:

<< It is a '76 block with polished and ported J-heads, w/3-angle job, full
rebuild so all the standard stuff like .030 over, ground crank, etc.  It has
10.1 pistons, but with the heads and fel-pro head gasket, the compression is
somewhere in the 9s. I can ran midgrade fuel with moderate timing advance and
no pinging.  The cam is Speed-Pro, 262/270 AD, .448/.472 lift.  The car has
TH400 (from '76 Delta), 12inch converter and Hurst stage 2 shift kit.  The
rear is 8.5inch 10-bolt limited slip with 3.23 gears.  It has a new (reworked)
Q-jet from '70 422 with really no emissions hook ups.  The intake is stock
cast iron w/blocked off EGR.  Exaust manifolds are stock with 2.5" dual exaust
w/balancer tube, 2.25" long Dynomax SuperTurbos and 2.25" tailpipes. .....
Had to keep it above 3000rpm just so it would run.)  Anyways, the problem is
that with my gears and converter I can absolutley have no traction even at 1/2
throtle launch (I am not joking.  Already got a ticket). And the cam seems to
pull like a locomotive to 3000rpm, then OKAY till 3800-4000 and then nothing
above that. >>

<< The car runs good with a fairly smooth idle (Q-jets from this source are no
good.  It is my second carb and I am not happy with it.  The first one had
silicon in it and when I first went to WOT on the highway 25 miles from home,
the silicon pried the Secondarys open. >>

Karl not unnerstand.
What are percieved carb probs.
Why are 1976 carbs a problem, or did I misunderstand what you meant by carb
source.
What do you mean by silicon keeping the butterfly valve open?

Are you using headers?
How big are your primaries if you are?
These can affect your power band.

For best carbut\retion, contact Kevin Wong.

Or someone.

SOM
&KA

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:26:54 -0400
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: MAYBE W-32?

Wow, 500 lb-ft from a 350!?   Not arguing, just amazed.

<snip>

>SX Conversion W-32, horse power at rpm   320 at 4200
>torque at rpm   500 at 2400
______________

Uh, Jason, the W-32 was a 455...

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:28:23 -0400
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: 455 Motors

I *thought* the last year for the 455 was 1976, but good 'ole
Chilton's...if
anyone has the 1970-1987 Cutlass book, check out page 79.  It lists the 403
and 455 as engines for the years "1976-77".
___________

Well, Olds didn't make 403s in 1976, either...

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:31:17 -0400
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: 70 350 motors (was Re: MAYBE W-32?)

> 350  4-bbl  325@5400  360@3600  10.50:1 <- W-31 Motor

Wow. Those are some good numbers.

How did they get 10.25-10.5:1 compression, did they mill down the heads
more?
_________________

Actually, the W-31s used a flat top piston that was unique to that motor.
The 10.25:1 motor used a shallow dish in the piston, while the 9:1 motor
used a deep dish (not to be confused with pizza).  The combustion chambers
on the heads were all pretty much the same.

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:43:37 EDT
From: DYeager535@aol.com
Subject: Re: Rear gear on '86 Salon

In a message dated 98-09-09 10:15:46 EDT, you write:

<< How do I determine which rear end my 85 Cutlass has? It's got a very
 heavy duty suspension, and it seems to launch very quickly, but there's
 no tag on it...

 Jim...
  >>
Take the rear differential cover off, and find the numbers stamped on the side
of the ring gear. One number is pinion, one is ring. Divide the bigger number
by the smaller (IE 41 divided by 12) Most, if not all, GM ring gears are
stamped this way. Aftermarkets too. My Salon had 2.56's for your info. Dorian

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:48:18 EDT
From: SpeedCom@aol.com
Subject: Re: Ideas on 455 Aircraft Engine.

In a message dated 9/9/98
 9:<BR33:<BR34 AM Central Daylight Time, KarlAune@aol.com writes:

>  All the above is fro conversations with Steve Wittman while writing his V8
>   conversion manual. >>
>
>  Better: Parallel 1000ca batteries (well maintained).
>
>  Ah! A manual?
>  Is this published?
>  This could be fascinating!
>

I never saw the finished manual. Steve had promised me a copy, but I moved and
just never re-established contact.

However, I didn see an ad for the manual in an EAA mag about 8 years ago. I
expect that it is still avaliable. Check with EAA. Or call the gift shop at
Oshkosh Steve Wittman airport.

Cheers/Carron

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:50:48 EDT
From: SpeedCom@aol.com
Subject: Re: Ideas on 455 Aircraft Engine.

In a message dated 9/9/98
 9:<BR36:<BR38 AM Central Daylight Time, KarlAune@aol.com writes:

> Karl agrees that prop speed is most important, but thinks may well be
> possible
>  to regulate the 455 for only RPM's up to 2000. In which case prop speed can
>  equal crank speed.
>

Yeah, at about 130 hp. These auto engines have to be turned into their torque
curve to get respectable hp. A new cam could move the curve downward, but
you'd never get 220 hp at 2200 RPM, which is about as fast as you'd want to
turn a Stearman prop, maybe too fast.

Cheers/Carron

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 09:53:55 -0500
From: "Johnson, Sam" <SAJOHNSON@usds.com>
Subject: Convertor

What is the stall on a stock convertor?
======================
Sam E. Johnson, JR.
>  <mailto:Cutlass403@ameritech.net> Cutlass403@ameritech.net
>1971 Cutlass S 455
>Westside! Chitown IL
19 Wins 13 Losses
======================

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:59:18 -0500
From: "Ed Binnix" <comid@jellico.com>
Subject: Re: Ideas on 455 Aircraft Engine.

Forgive ignorance of aircraft stuff, BUT gear reduction seems essential.
Turn the motor at 4000 rpm's (2:1) would get you into the very heart of your
torque curve and into your serious horsepower curve and make for a very
powerful plane.

- -----Original Message-----

>> Karl agrees that prop speed is most important, but thinks may well be
>> possible
>>  to regulate the 455 for only RPM's up to 2000. In which case prop speed
can
>>  equal crank speed.
>>
>
>Yeah, at about 130 hp. These auto engines have to be turned into their
torque
>curve to get respectable hp. A new cam could move the curve downward, but
>you'd never get 220 hp at 2200 RPM, which is about as fast as you'd want to
>turn a Stearman prop, maybe too fast.
>
>Cheers/Carron
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:59:16 -0400
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: Ideas on 455 Aircraft Engine.

Second reference during this trhead to dry sump.

What do you guys mean by that?
____________

A dry sump oiling system uses an external oil tank rather than a sump under
the engine.  The oil pan is typically a shallow collector with hoses used
to evacuate the oil, where it is pumped to the external tank.  In racing
applications the advantages are less windage drag on the crank and an
assurance of a positive oil supply (G-forced encountered during cornering
can draw the oil away from the pickup in a conventional wet sump oil pan).
This latter advantage is why I suggested it for an aero engine.

==============

Karl agrees that prop speed is most important, but thinks may well be
possible
to regulate the 455 for only RPM's up to 2000. In which case prop speed can
equal crank speed.
____________

I suspect a 455 irrigation motor will have some pointers, as this is a
motor optimized for a constant low RPM application.

===============

...why magneto is superior to HEI in an aeronautical sense.
____________

Prolly just due to fewer parts in a self-contained system.  The mag
generates its own electricity and thus doesn't rely on an external
alternator/battery/regulator system.

===============

...I have not seen eyelets on spark plugs.

Please explain?
____________

Some brands of plugs have a threaded stud at the end where the wire
attaches.  For automotive use an "eyelet" (for lack of a better term) must
be screwed on over the threaded stud to allow the plug wire to snap on
properly (thus making the plug look just like a conventional one).  In a
high-vibration environment one could get plug wires which have a ring
terminal on the end as opposed to a normal snap-on terminal and put this
ring terminal over the threaded post on the plug.  Use double nuts to
ensure that they don't back off, and you've got a high-reliability
connection.

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 08:06:52 PDT
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: 30,000 original mile '69 455? (Very long)

> Last year I acquired a 455 out of a '69 98.  This car had what I
> believe to be 36,000 original miles on it.  Some of the reasons I
> believe this are because it had the original cloth bench interior
> that was immaculate -- just like brand new.  The rest of the car
> was also brand-new in appearance

This is not meant as a flame, but why would a car that nice be
(apparently) parted out? Please tell us a tree fell on it or
something...

- -- Andy

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 11:15:14 EDT
From: CBarnhart1@aol.com
Subject: 455 Olds AeroEngine

Many thanks to all who have replied with ideas for getting a Rocket airborne.
Enthusiasm has been so high that it?s impossible for me to reply to all.  I?ll
try to hit a few of the more predominant thoughts.

The 455 Olds that I had was very dependable (and powerful).  The 220HP
Continental engine on the Stearmans that I have had is 1930?s technology with
most of the parts that old, or older.  There is a fiber gear in some of the
magnetos that has just disintegrated with age in some cases.  New mag
(reconditioned with ?old-new? parts), exchange price, $425.00 (1993 price
list).  Overhauled, certified starter $1095.00 - 1993.  $$$ cost of
replacement parts + pure sentiment for the 455 has been my motivation.  455
torque available at low rpm supports my emotion!

Notes:

engine mount will be most critical - engine mounting points - vibration -
strength
- - propeller distance from firewall, stock - prop plane of rotation, same
relation as original

weight/center of gravity - 455 total will probably be less, including liquid
coolant, extra battery positioned correctly + any ballast required would fix

cost & availability of parts makes as stock as possible better; when something
breaks, need to be able to find part at nearest auto parts store (history of
waiting for a week in east podunk, west of nowhere for high dollar parts
stinks)

first go will be stock oil pan (maybe Toronado, if available), wet sump, with
oil cooler - maintaining positive G?s will permit many aerobatic maneuvers -
too old for sustained inverted flight anyway

single plug, dual ignition (one stock, one HEI), need to check drag cars for
how-to, EAA has an article on same someplace

fuel pump (?)  220 runs fine with gravity feed from tank two feet higher than
engine, first sign of negative G?s engine quits (no gravity, no fuel) and
scares the hell out of people!

flywheel (?) which one?  will need to have prop spline (forward end of
Continental crank) machined and adapter made to connect to flywheel

fuel injection (?)  which might fit, for how many $$$$?s ?

carb - simple stock as possible - power will have to be limited @ take-off to
2100 rpm (prop limitation, tips go supersonic)  need lotsa torque @ 2100 rpm -
as climb commences and rpm would drop off as ?load? increases, more throttle
(more gas) should maintain 1900-2000 rpm and climb like crazy - does this mean
big 4v (?)

exhaust - tuned exhaust stacks - for pure music, or functionality (?), into
collector, or single stacks?
- -----

Modification will place A/C in ?experimental? category, insurance will be
higher, and the ?pure-ists? will scream bloody murder.

- ---standing by for more ideas---

Barney

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 08:17:03 PDT
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: where is the buzzer at help??

> the buzzer that goes off when you leave your lights on
> where is it located under dash?

If it was an actual buzzer, it's most likely either plugged into
the fusebox or hanging from a wiring connector in the vicinity
of the parking brake behind the dash.

If your car has the electronic chime package, it's (IIRC) an orange
plastic box with a bunch of wires coming out of it, up behind the
gauge cluster in the dash.

If your old one died, your best bet is probably to just plug in
another one, either GM or aftermarket, as someone else described
already: +12V lead to a gray dash backlighting wire; the other
wire to an ignition circuit which goes dead when the car is off
(and thus functions as a ground for the buzzer).

The reason for using the backlighting circuit instead of an
exterior light circuit is so you can turn the warning buzzer off
by turning the dash lighting rheostat all the way down, for cases
where you want to leave the lights on for some reason without
driving yourself or your passengers crazy in the meantime.

- --
Andrew C. Green             (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.            email: acg@datalogics.com
101 N. Wacker, Ste. 1800    http://www.datalogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301     Fax: (312) 853-8282

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 10:29:20 -0500
From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mh1.mcis.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Re: Found; Cast Crank Pulley ????

Cast pulley, 2 groove, 4 hole, two balance drill spots, casting #520276, (also
22506144 cast into it). Really is cast, not stamped steel. Was marked 350 Olds
by yard. Any idea?
- --
David Brown          Mailto:dbrown@mh1.mcis.uchicago.edu
          Oldsmobile Mailing List FAQ 4.1 at:
http://www.442.com   OR   http://www.en.com/users/thall
Conserve bandwidth, get the zip file for local viewing:
           ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 11:30:19 EDT
From: KWhite5590@aol.com
Subject: Re: Rear gear on '86 Salon

Igor,

the gear ratio should be stamped on drivers side axle tube
facing the front of the car. Dig through the dirt to find it.
that is where I found it my 83 CSB. | Hope this helps.

Kevin White
83 CSB
FE3X clone

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 11:37:54 EDT
From: KWhite5590@aol.com
Subject: Re: where is the buzzer at help??

Rich,

Its' a red box (mine is) in front of your left knee, just below
gauge cluster.

Kevin White
83 CSB
FE3X clone

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 10:55:10 -0500
From: Shang <shang@wans.net>
Subject: Re: 70 350 motors (was Re: MAYBE W-32?)

Jason Adcock wrote:
>
> I think the W-31's got the same treatment the 9 307's got versus the Y 307's
> during the 80's.  Different carburetors, hotter camshafts, taller valve
> springs, possibly different heads (the 9's didn't get different ones,
> though).  I'm sure there are some W-31 buffs out there who could enlighten
> us...
>
> Jason Adcock
> mailto:rocketolds@vt.edu
> http://www.cslab.vt.edu/~jadcock
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matt Cremean <creme1ma@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Date: Wednesday, September 09, 1998 9:31 AM
> Subject: 70 350 motors (was Re: MAYBE W-32?)
>
> >Wow. Those are some good numbers.
> >
> >How did they get 10.25-10.5:1 compression, did they mill down the heads
> >more? Thinner head gaskets? I hear the ones from DMR work very well.
> >I'd like to get these kind of numbers out of my 350 2bbl. I was thinking
> >about just slapping on a 4bbl, but it looks like I'll need to do more
> >than that.


The W-31 had a VERY hot cam for a small block 233deg@.050 lift and .470
lift. It was the only Olds motor to use a true flattop piston, which
gave it the 10.5 compression. It also had #6 heads, but they were big
valve.


Stephen Hoover
Dallas, Texas
'70 Supreme - original 350 built to W-31 specs :)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 11:02:00 EDT
From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Subject: (Event): All-Oldsmobile Funshow

For anyone in the St. Louis or Mid-West area:

BRING YOUR OLDSMOBILE....

The next REAL big show that you don't want to miss is the 15th Annual
All-Oldsmobile Funshow.  My wife and I again are organizing Archway
Oldsmobile's Annual Funshow this year.  It is a car show/swap meet that is
open to the public and will be held on Sunday, Sept 13, 1998.   This is a
successful and growing event, and we anticipate the largest one ever for
this year.  It is held at "The Heart of St. Charles Banquet center" parking
lot, which is right next to Highway 70 (30 feet from the highway) and fully
visible to thousands of people driving by on HWY 70.  It is also
conveniently located next to Historic downtown St. Charles Riverfront
Landing, and right next door to the Station Casino-St. Charles (Also one of
our proud sponsors).  We had a good showing last year of old to new Olds.  A
total of well over 100 cars were on display.  This year we anticipate the
largest turnout ever.


I will be providing the Oldies music (I used to work for Jukebox 96 FM here
in St. Louis doing an oldies show, and have been doing mobile DJing since
1982).  If you go to the show, make sure you come by and say hi.  I will be
at either of two places, the DJ table, or near my car (Blue 1969 4-4-2 with
factory white racing stripes on the hood)  Also, food and beverages will be
available.

Here is the information:
SUNDAY, Sept. 13, 1998, 8am-4pm - St. Charles MO - Archway Oldmobile
Funshow.  Car Show/swap meet that is open to the public, and held by The
Archway Oldsmobile Club of St. Louis from 8am to 5pm.  Have a unique or
classic Olds?  Come show it!  It is held at "The Heart of St. Charles
Banquet center" parking lot right at HWY 70 and 5th street.  Prizes, and
trophies given away in 16 categories.  Cruise by and check out the show
while the DJ plays the golden Oldies.  For more information call John
Palmberger (314)-355-4864 or Jeff Zeilmann (314) 939-4613.

We are welcoming any and all Oldsmobiles to participate.  Your car does not
have to be show quality to show it.  By doing this, we should have a great
representation of all of Oldsmobiles different models, makes and years.  You
don't have to enter your Olds in the competition to show it.  but, if you
wish to compete in one of the 16 categories, the entry fee is only $10.00.

Please let me know if you need more specific directions, and I will be glad
to provide them.  If you would like information about lodgings, I will be
more than happy to provide it.  It actually is being held in a huge parking
lot that is shared by the St. Charles Inn, and across the street is a Best
Western (the Hotel that has a huge Noahs Ark in front of it ).  There are 3
hotels within one block of the show, and nearly a dozen within a one mile
radius of the show.

ps. The '69 4-4-2 will definitely be there (just got the carb rebuilt!)
  .
/ | \
| | |
|/|\|
\ | /
Jeff Zeilmann
1605 Elizabeth Ellen Ct.
St. Peters, MO 63376-6542

Home Phone #: (314) 939-4613
Daytime #: (314) 891-7915
SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
'69 4-4-2, '69 Cutlass S Convertible, '68 Cutlass Supreme,

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:14:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Nathyn M. Knipe" <nmknipe@mailbox.syr.edu>
Subject: how to determine your gear ratio...

if it isn't posi...put the car in neutral and turn your tire two
revolutions and count the revolutions of the drive shaft...that will be
approximately the gear ratio...so if you have a 3.73 gear ratio...the
drive shaft will rotate about 3.73 revolutions........IF IT IS POSI, just
the rotate the tire once........this is a  hell of a lot easier than
taking the cover off....Nathyn

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:30:13 -0600
From: "Igor T. '81 455DRB" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Re: cam question 455

No, I obtained the carburator from a Q-jet rebuild source via my local parts
store.  The price was good but the carbs are not that great.  It is not a
stock '76 carb but rather a replacement carb that went on '70 442s. (no
emmissions or anything)  The first carb never held fuel longer then 5 min.
Some of it leaked out onto the manifold from all over the place and other I
would emagine leaked into the manifold and evaporated.  On the last gasket
between the base of the carb and the rest up top is where they used silicon
and the gasket (obviously).  When I took the carb back to the store, one guy
at the parts counter said that it must have been me that added the silicon,
but when I got the second carb it too had some silicon.  I don't know why
they used it.  I think they are AutoLine carbs.  Anyways, they used a bit
too much so whey I torqed the carb down, the excess silicon just spread out
and hung there.  When the secondarys opened, the vacum pulling the fuel in
pulled in this silicon as well.  Of course, when the plates closed, the
silicon got in the way and they stayed open.  They did not stay open much,
just a little, but enough to create a big problem.

No, I am not running headers, but stock exaust manifolds with the passanger
side having two ports, one for exit and one to take the pipe comming from
the drivers side.   One of those ports has been capped off.  Dual 2.5" pipe,
balancer tube, 2.25" Dynomax Super Turbos, 2.25" dual pipes.


- -----Original Message-----
From: KarlAune@aol.com <KarlAune@aol.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wednesday, September 09, 1998 8:23 AM
Subject: Re: cam question 455


>In a message dated 98-09-07 14:31:37 EDT, you write:
>
><< It is a '76 block with polished and ported J-heads, w/3-angle job, full
>rebuild so all the standard stuff like .030 over, ground crank, etc.  It
has
>10.1 pistons, but with the heads and fel-pro head gasket, the compression
is
>somewhere in the 9s. I can ran midgrade fuel with moderate timing advance
and
>no pinging.  The cam is Speed-Pro, 262/270 AD, .448/.472 lift.  The car has
>TH400 (from '76 Delta), 12inch converter and Hurst stage 2 shift kit.  The
>rear is 8.5inch 10-bolt limited slip with 3.23 gears.  It has a new
(reworked)
>Q-jet from '70 422 with really no emissions hook ups.  The intake is stock
>cast iron w/blocked off EGR.  Exaust manifolds are stock with 2.5" dual
exaust
>w/balancer tube, 2.25" long Dynomax SuperTurbos and 2.25" tailpipes. .....
>Had to keep it above 3000rpm just so it would run.)  Anyways, the problem
is
>that with my gears and converter I can absolutley have no traction even at
1/2
>throtle launch (I am not joking.  Already got a ticket). And the cam seems
to
>pull like a locomotive to 3000rpm, then OKAY till 3800-4000 and then
nothing
>above that. >>
>
><< The car runs good with a fairly smooth idle (Q-jets from this source are
no
>good.  It is my second carb and I am not happy with it.  The first one had
>silicon in it and when I first went to WOT on the highway 25 miles from
home,
>the silicon pried the Secondarys open. >>
>
>Karl not unnerstand.
>What are percieved carb probs.
>Why are 1976 carbs a problem, or did I misunderstand what you meant by carb
>source.
>What do you mean by silicon keeping the butterfly valve open?
>
>Are you using headers?
>How big are your primaries if you are?
>These can affect your power band.
>
>For best carbut\retion, contact Kevin Wong.
>
>Or someone.
>
>SOM
>&KA
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:41:21 -0000
From: "RANDY A GEISEL" <RANDYGEISEL@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: how to determine your gear ratio...

>if it isn't posi...put the car in neutral and turn your tire two
>revolutions and count the revolutions of the drive shaft...that will be
>approximately the gear ratio...so if you have a 3.73 gear ratio...the
>drive shaft will rotate about 3.73 revolutions........IF IT IS POSI, just
>the rotate the tire once........this is a  hell of a lot easier than
>taking the cover off....Nathyn


Huh.....What?????  Please explain why you have to turn the wheel twice
without posi?

It shouldn't matter either way, a limited slip carrier just "locks" in the
non-drive wheel. It doesn't change the gearing. If you turn the drive wheel
on an open rear the driveshaft still turns XX number of revolutions
depending on the gears. 2.73 turns for 2.73 gears etc.
Correct?

Confused,
Randy

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 09:49:06 -0700
From: Ben <olds442@primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Ideas on 455 Aircraft Engine.

<HTML>
ON the contrary. I used my Mr. Gasket Desktop Dyno to <I>simulate</I> the
455 with several options. the best I got was 285 at 2000. It's not totaly
scientific cause I made up a came from the street option and modified the
settings a bit. But on the average I got 265 at 2000. It's acheivable and
if you get a junkyard engine for cheap, it's affordable too. Just my opinion.
<BR>Ben
<BR>62 Olds f-85 price down to 1400
<BR><A
HREF="http://www.primenet.com/~olds442/forsale.html
">http://www.primenet.com/~ol
ds442/forsale.html</A> <BR>68 Olds 442

<P>SpeedCom@aol.com wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>In a message dated 9/9/98
<BR>&nbsp;9:&lt;BR36:&lt;BR38 AM Central Daylight Time, KarlAune@aol.com
writes:

<P>> Karl agrees that prop speed is most important, but thinks may well
be
<BR>> possible
<BR>>&nbsp; to regulate the 455 for only RPM's up to 2000. In which case
prop speed can
<BR>>&nbsp; equal crank speed.
<BR>>

<P>Yeah, at about 130 hp. These auto engines have to be turned into their
torque
<BR>curve to get respectable hp. A new cam could move the curve downward,
but
<BR>you'd never get 220 hp at 2200 RPM, which is about as fast as you'd
want to
<BR>turn a Stearman prop, maybe too fast.

<P>Cheers/Carron</BLOCKQUOTE>
&nbsp;</HTML>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:46:21 -0400
From: "Jason Adcock" <rocketolds@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: MAYBE W-32?

Oops, I'm all confused now.  I thought that the W-32 was a 350 small block.
I guess that's the W-31, huh?  :-)

My bad...

Jason Adcock
mailto:rocketolds@vt.edu
http://www.cslab.vt.edu/~jadcock

- -----Original Message-----
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM <Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wednesday, September 09, 1998 10:32 AM
Subject: Re: MAYBE W-32?


>Uh, Jason, the W-32 was a 455...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:54:01 -0400
From: RAY.COSTANZO@firstunion.com
Subject: How to determine rear gears

TO: Softswitch.OAS
CC:
FROM: RAY.COSTANZO@TAOFUN1
SUBJECT:  How to determine rear gears

   Uh, why would you rotate the tire twice if you have posi?

   The driveshaft will spin the same number of times regardless.

   Ray Costanzo
   87 409 Cutlass














































------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 09:58:26 PDT
From: "Brent Pinkstaff" <fear_of_tomorrow@hotmail.com>
Subject: 10th Annual CCR Fall Olds Show

For those of you who live in the D.C. area, are going to be in the D.C.
area, or just think a drive to D.C. this weekend would be great, please
come out and help our local chapter celebrate 10 great years!


September 13 - CAPITOL CITY ROCKETS 10TH ANNUAL ALL-OLDSMOBILE SHOW
             Hosted by Capitol City Rockets. At Templeton Oldsmobile,
8598 Leesburg Pike (Rt7), Vienna, VA 22182. Come out and help CCR
celebrate 10 great years! Prepare for a day of music, food, fun, and
Oldsmobiles. Pre-Reg $10 if postmarked before 9/4/98, $12 day of show.
Registration includes dash plaque, event T-shirt, goodie bag, and door
prize ticket. Please make payment to "Capitol City Rockets".Send
registration to : Brent & Ray, Attn:CCR Fall Show, 1926 Leonard Road,
Falls Church, VA 22043. Info: Brent(703)761-0297 or Ray(703)360-2955.

Brent Pinkstaff
'70 Cutlass S (Mr. Hankey, the Cutlass poo)


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:59:27 EDT
From: KarlAune@aol.com
Subject: Re: Ideas on 455 Aircraft Engine.

In a message dated 98-09-08 14:31:33 EDT, you write:

<< At the RPM we are talking (torque peak, maximum) a standard point-coil
system is *the most reliable*. >>

Although I agree with you for all automotive purposes, Karl must disagree.

Automobiles do not make turns by banking.

Points distributors have moving parts (to wit the mechanical advance weights)
that will be affected by inertial shifts.

((stomp on me if I am wrong!))

Karl feels a properly curved HEI would best serve you in the aerial environs.

Of course, if you must have points and redundancy, how about a dual points
distributor?
<grin>

(Drat, I keep forgetting to pull a 'spare' dist from my parts cars at yardes)

SOM
&KA

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:59:30 EDT
From: KarlAune@aol.com
Subject: Re: who is running a holley or edelbrock?

In a message dated 98-09-08 23:09:36 EDT, you write:

<< the one i have on there now runs pretty good, but i guess i just dont have
much faith in myself. i just think more power could be had with a aftermarket
carb.  also, sometimes when the car is floored, im getting a little smoke out
of the exhaust.  not
 oil, i dont think, the engine was totally rebuilt 20,000 miles ago.  the
carburator i have now has cross drilled air tubes, opened up jets a tad bit to
compensate for the carb being a late model one, and i also did several other
things that i read to do in a carb rebuild book. >>

Hmmm.

"Smoke" should not be caused by the carburetor.

My information on jetting is that the only thing that should affect jetting is
displacement. If your car has been overbored, then changing one jet to the
next higher # is probably feasible. Maybe.

What is your displacement, what are your jet #'s and what is the model # of
your current Q-jet?

Other info on your Oldsmobile might also help.

(Sorry, I joined this thread late)

SOM
&KA

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:59:09 EDT
From: KarlAune@aol.com
Subject: Re: Information.. was Re: Toro Graveyard, revisited

More info.

Jack Bazur (sp?) called me this morn.

The Toro-deal is still kinda tentative.
$$$ agreed on but date not set.
Jack busy guy.

Basicly we'll try to strip the toro's of all valuable bits in little time
left.

If anyone needs the frame for a toro (Karl not know what years available),
speak up.

This "transaction" will prolly be limited to one or two days so may not be
able to stip all the good stuff.

Yes, all efforts will be made to preserve good sheetmetal.

BTW; what is the quickest way to remove an engine from a yarde-car?
Yah engine mounts.
Can they be got at with car on ground?
Likely will be using impact wrench (or B.F.H.)!!

Thanks!

SOM
&KA

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:59:28 EDT
From: KarlAune@aol.com
Subject: Ch*tty Aircraft Engine and prospective 455

In a message dated 98-09-08 21:57:05 EDT, you write:

<< Had an E-mail from another source today - has a 454 Chev running
"inverted";
 direct drive to his prop.

 Says it runs great! >>

Karl hopes it is not carbureted.

Guys?
C'mon!

I expected more criticisizm/speculation on my ideas!
It does not matter that neither Karl nor some of you know diddley about
aeroplane engines.
(OTOH Karl DOES know summat about Bo Diddley!)

How does one create a big block setup optimizing the 1000-1800 RPM power band?

One other idea from Karl.

This application needs a smaller cam.
Mebbe shorter lift AND shorter duration.....

Might be viable to sustain idle as not many accessories to drive on a
Stearman.
Just prop.
(idle does not need to withstand shifting into gear!)

Aw c'mon!

Please?

If nothing else, Karl curious to hear ideas from angles Karl had not thought
of.

SOM
&KA

(I'll show you guys! I'll turn Soylent into an aeroplane!)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:59:28 EDT
From: KarlAune@aol.com
Subject: Re: arcing problem and spark plugs readings

In a message dated 98-09-08 13:39:23 EDT, you write:

<< I tore down my Mallory dist. before I commit to a new one.  I was turning
the engine over to get top dead center on #1 when I noticed that sparks jump
from the center of my cap to the edges where the spark plugs contacts are (All
on the underside of the cap).  That's a good 2 1/2" jump.  I thought I
remember reading somewhere that the spark shouldn't jump like that.

 I'm getting quite a few "timing gun hits" at the 90 degree mark on my
balancer. >>

Is this with cap OFF, or how did you see sparks inside cap?

Karl will assume cap was off.

Your HEI (right? with 2&1/2" radius it must be) generates much voltage which
is quite capable of arcing to .... well wherever it wants, really.

This may well be normal.
But it does tell you that the plugs and wires connected to the electrodes
arced to are perfectly good.......

Or are they?
The wires are not connected to ground.
Rather, they are connected to plugs that have an ADDITIONAL air gap to cross.

Then again all that coil voltage needs to go somewhere

Hmmmmmm.

Karl understands from HEI traffic (that he usually deletes outright) that
proper plug gap is summat like 0.060". Are you using the right gaps?

But hits at 90?
Balancer tape right?

Does it allus hit 90 or sometimes?

How long after running this setup did probs start?

Here is a test that will not cost you anything...

Do it again.
Crank with cap off.
See if only specific electrodes are arced to.

Have you tried disconnecting the MSD?

Sorry if I am passing on flawed info from a die hard points-ster.

Good luck.

SOM
&KA

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 13:10:45 +0100
From: Matt Cremean <creme1ma@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu>
Subject: Re: how to determine your gear ratio...

RANDY A GEISEL wrote:
>
> >if it isn't posi...put the car in neutral and turn your tire two
[snip]
> >the rotate the tire once........this is a  hell of a lot easier than
> >taking the cover off....Nathyn
>
> Huh.....What?????  Please explain why you have to turn the wheel twice
[more snip]
> depending on the gears. 2.73 turns for 2.73 gears etc.
> Correct?

Actually, I think it's all BS. I tried it with my car on a lift before.
The driveshaft turned 1.5 times for every one tire turn. Does that mean
I have a 1.50 gear? NO!!!! It means that this method is false and only
works in some rare instances.

- --
*************
Matt Cremean
mailto:creme1ma@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
1975 Cutlass S Hardtop Coupe (250 L-6 1bbl) "parts car"
1973 Cutlass Supreme Hardtop Coupe (350 V-8 4bbl) "The Oldsmoslow"
1970 Cutlass S Holiday Coupe (350 V-8 2bbl) "The Unit"
1983 Ch*vrolet C*price (305 V-8 4bbl) "The Blue Taxi"
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/
**************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 11:10:24 -0600
From: "B. Sanders" <blaines@strata3d.com>
Subject: RE: 30,000 original mile '69 455? (Very long)

> This is not meant as a flame, but why would a car that nice be
> (apparently) parted out? Please tell us a tree fell on it or
> something...
>
> -- Andy
>

OK, here's the story.  I found the car in a Junkyard in Las Vegas.
According to the yard men, the car had just been pulled in a couple days
before, and they got it from a middle-aged man who called them to come and
get it.  He told them that the car belonged to his mother, who was the
original owner, and who died in like '81, and the car had been sitting
since.  I assumed that the car had been garaged for most of the time,
because a car sitting outside in Las Vegas for almost 30 years would be
totally baked.  And as I said, the cloth interior was in primo condition.
The dash wasn't even cracked, and in the Las Vegas sun, that would only take
a few years to happen.  The paint was also in good original condition, only
slightly oxidized.  I know the car was in Las Vegas it's whole life, and was
only owned by one person, because I found the original purchase documents in
the glove box, along with registration materials for several years between
'69 & '79, all with the same name on them.  I assume that this was one of
those cases where Mother dies, Father is either too old to drive, or already
dead, and Son inherits Mom's car... the one she only drove on Sundays and to
the grocery store.  Son perhaps plans to drive the car again, but more than
likely doesn't really like the car, but holds on to it for almost 20 years
for sentimental or other reasons.  Then finally decides he needs that garage
space back, and decides it's time to let go of the memories, so he calls the
wrecking yard to tow it off.  The guys working that morning were reluctant
to let me have the engine, because the boss wanted to keep the car for
himself.  I honestly felt horrible for taking that engine out of that car,
because it was so original and in such good shape.  I even tried to get them
to sell me the whole car so I could save it.  But they wouldn't.  I didn't
really believe them that the boss wanted to keep the car, I felt they were
just saying that to worm up the price on the engine.  They didn't care about
the car's originality one bit.  I wanted to take the engine out very
carefully and respectfully, but they had a different idea.  I went to the
car with my tools and started undoing every little bolt.  A few minutes
later, the yard man pulls up behind me in a huge fork lift and tells me to
get out of the way.  Then he carelessly drives the forks up underneath the
front of the car and lifted it up.  Then he hopped under there with a torch
and cut the motor mounts out.  Then he dropped the car and hooked a chain to
the engine and literally tore it the rest of the way out of the car.  I was
very unhappy with the way he treated that car.  I even cussed him out for
it.  I don't think he cared or felt any remorse, though.

It's a sad story, and you can flame me if you want.  But at least the heart
of that car will live again in the body of another Olds.  It was either
drive back home (3 hour drive) empty handed, wasting my whole trip, or save
an engine.  If I didn't take it, someone else would have...

- -Blaine

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:26:48 -0500
From: Martin Thomas-WLTM07 <Thomas_Martin-WLTM07@css.mot.com>
Subject: Goofy required options...(sorta like Hurst/Olds A/C)

If it is like my 80 Turbo Trans AM, if you wanted the Turbo engine, AC
was required as was the special THM350, not C.  No manual trans was
offered with the Turbo 301.  Bummer!  Probably break the wimpy 4 or 5
sp.  The Turbo 301 had only 210 hp, but a very healthy 345 ft lbs
torque.  I was able to 99% of the time lay a hard scratch from 1-2
shift, and about 50% lay it from 2-3 shift.  I also did a 1/4mi of
14.21@97.3, with 4030 lbs.  3.08 gears 28 in tall tires.  Anyone
computer HP and Torque from that?  I figured 283 hp (rear wheel) and
about 400 lbs/ft torque.

If you have ever driven a Turbo car, you will not want to go back, they
are FUN!!

I do not understand why GM insists on strange option packages like
mandatory AC, Auto I can see, if the manual trans cannot handle it, then
don't offer it.  Like the Z34 Lumina, 1991 the Z34 got a 215hp 215
lbs/ft torque 3.4L, with a manual, but it had a lot of warranty
problems, hence, kill off the manual trans option.  Whereas the SHO gets
a manual for years and no auto!

I just want to turbo my 350 Rocket!!

Thomas Martin
85 Cutlass Supreme Rocket 350 CCC
91 Bonneville LE 3800
80 Turbo Trans AM 400 Pontiac

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 13:38:51 EDT
From: RICH6986@aol.com
Subject: need vin decipherd?

2g3ar47a0c2317828    i dont know if the 0 is the letter or #  but i have seen
many other vins on the list and just want to see what mine is   TIA  Rich

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:40:45 -0500
From: Martin Thomas-WLTM07 <Thomas_Martin-WLTM07@css.mot.com>
Subject: Re: Rear gear on '86 Salon

According to what I have read, with the V8 option in 1985, 3 spd trans
THM200C got ONLY 2.14's, and OD got 2.56.  I will have to scan some of
the literature I have.  I think OD and 3.23 would be an ultimate daily
driver gear ratio.

But if you have a high altitude V6, you got 3.23.  The highest ratio
that is not a 442.  The 3.73 REQUIRES the 442 option.  The V6 got 2.73
standard.

2.14, 2.29, 2.41, 2.56, 2.73, 2.93, 3.08 and 3.23 were the only listed
ratio's, and 3.73 was in the 8.5 in for the 442.  No 3.73 in 7.5/7.625
in form for the Cutlass, although the Monte Carlo SS had 3.73 with the
7.5/7.625 ring gear.

As for special order, I guess you could get the other.  But from what I
have found, there were no high alt gears for a 307 car, just the V6.
For 1985 I have never seen nor heard of other than 2.14/THM200C or
2.56/THM200 4R with the "Y" 307 V8...Factory installed.  442 not
included....<g>

Anyone out there have an 85 that came with other than that?  I would
like to find out if there where other special options your car had,
please email directly.

I don't know if there was a trailer package available, does anyone know
for 81-88?

Thomas Martin
85 Cutlass Supreme Rocket 350 CCC
91 Bonneville LE 3800
80 Turbo Trans AM 400 Pontiac

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:43:54 -0500
From: Martin Thomas-WLTM07 <Thomas_Martin-WLTM07@css.mot.com>
Subject: Re: Rear gear on '86 Salon

To ID the rear you have, take a visit to
http://ni.umd.edu/gnttype/www/axle_codes.html.

The code is stamped on the right hand (pass side) axle tube, forward
facing, usually covered by years of gunk.

Sometimes it is easier to pull the diff cover!!

Good luck!!

Thomas Martin
85 Cutlass Supreme Rocket 350 CCC
91 Bonneville LE 3800
80 Turbo Trans AM 400 Pontiac

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 12:49:42 -0500
From: David L Wyatt <WYATT_DAVID_L@lilly.com>
Subject: Re: how to determine your gear ratio...

With a posi you can turn the wheel one rotation with both wheels in the air
and count the drive shaft revolutions.  With a non posi you need to turn the
wheel twice.  Why, I am not sure, but I suspect the spider gears inside cause
the ring gear to turn slower than the wheels.  All of this brought back
memories of balancing tires on the car with a spin balancer.  While we had a
machine to spin the front tires, the rears were spun by running the car in
gear while up on jacks.  On non posi cars, most at that time, we would run the
speedometer to an indicated 35 mph, that would give a wheel speed of 70 mph.
Apparently this had something to do with only turning one wheel as we would
leave the other wheel on the ground.  I never really gave it much thought,
just accepted it and went on with life.  Cars with posi rears were treated
differently, both rear wheels suspended, so as not to launch the car through
the end of the shop.

The good old days when front drivers were rare!

Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:58:51 -0500
From: Martin Thomas-WLTM07 <Thomas_Martin-WLTM07@css.mot.com>
Subject: RE: Best Quadrajet carb's?

I shouldn't tell my secret, but...

The 80 Turbo Trans AM is probably the last production car from Detroit
with a 800 CFM carb, and it is a special Q-Jet.  It will work well on
any other GM product that can use the fuel inlet "normal", ie, not like
a Ch#vy.  It goes straight in.  The only significant difference is the
vacuum under the APT metering rods is EXTERNAL, not internal.  No
problem!  Add a vacuum line to it!!    (Else you will KILL mileage!!)
This was controlled by the PEVR, Power Enrichment Vacuum Valve.

This is not a computer controlled carb!!  81 was 80 was not, but the 81
carb should be a great hi performance carb for any computer controlled
car.

This Q-Jet also came with the richest secondary metering rods ever, DX,
near needle sized at the tips, and a very rapid rate to get there.  It
has the absolute richest 70% to 100% secondary operation.  No other is
richer from 70%+ secondary operation.  This is needed for the Turbo
boost at 10 PSI and no computer to control it.  ESC is part of the
distributor, but is stand alone.  (hint, make that 11:1 compression live
on pump gas???  Works for me!!)

AND, they also have pull over enrichment for the primaries, something to
deliver even more fuel when under high load/high rpm situations.  This
is a special feature found only on large engine carbs.

Ok, the drawback?  It has 51 primary metering rods, sorta lean, so, you
change it to be richer based on whatever car you have.  I was designed
for a single plane intake on a 301.

No mine is not for sale!!  But I can dig up the carb numbers if anyone
needs them, just email me directly.

Thomas Martin
85 Cutlass Supreme Rocket 350 CCC
91 Bonneville LE 3800
80 Turbo Trans AM 400 Pontiac


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:02:40 -0400
From: "Weaver, Stanleigh G" <Stanleigh.Weaver@PHL.Boeing.com>
Subject: RE: need vin decipherd?

Rich,

2 = Built in Canada
G = General Motors
3 = Oldsmobile
AR = this represents the model (I think) but I don't know what AR stands
for??
47 = 2-door
A = engine (Buick 231)
0 = Don't know??
C = year (1982)
2 = Assembly plant (Therese, Quebec, Canada)
317,828 = Production sequence number

Stan

> ----------
> From: 	RICH6986@aol.com[SMTP:RICH6986@aol.com]
> Sent: 	Wednesday, September 09, 1998 1:38 PM
> To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: 	need vin decipherd?
>
> 2g3ar47a0c2317828    i dont know if the 0 is the letter or #  but i
> have seen
> many other vins on the list and just want to see what mine is   TIA
> Rich
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 13:01:26 -0500 (CDT)
From: George <cutlass@one.camd.lsu.edu>
Subject: torque conv. question

Hi Guys,

Here is the story:
I know, usually you should plan a car from scratch to get maximum
performance... in my case I try to put things I have together half way
decent:
I have 750 cfm holley I will use with old single plane holley alu intake.
The block is 60 over with stock cam and crank. I have 350 tranny and stock
gears (I think).

Here is the question:
Can I put in a 3500 stall TCI torque converter to get more power taking
off and driving in the city (what the car is basically going to be used
for)???
What will happen if I use the 3500?

Or should I go for the stock torque converter though my intake and
carb will like the higher rpms better?
Suggestions? Maybe I should get a torque converter with stall between
stock and 3500? What is the stock stall?

Thanx, George

- --------------------------------------------------------------
'68 Cuttlass S Conv.
http://estimator.camd.lsu.edu/georg/sparetime/olds.html
- --------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:05:43 -0600
From: "Igor T. '81 455DRB" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Re: how to determine your gear ratio...

My girlfriends dad uses this methond, and he tires it seven or eight times,
gets a number that resembles a factory availabe gear ratio, and assumes that
is what it is.  Okay.  I tired it before and could never get it quite right.
First I get 1.5, then, 1.2, then 2, then (changing my approach) 5.5, and so
on.  What are we doing wrong.  Anyways, the way I always did it was to pop
the cover off and look for stamed numbers.  If they are not there (happend
once) just count the gears and divide.  But in the case of my friends Salon,
there is no way I am doing this cause they I have to clean it and silicone
it and then refill the fluid.  Too much hastle.  Igor.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Matt Cremean <creme1ma@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wednesday, September 09, 1998 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: how to determine your gear ratio...


>RANDY A GEISEL wrote:
>>
>> >if it isn't posi...put the car in neutral and turn your tire two
>[snip]
>> >the rotate the tire once........this is a  hell of a lot easier than
>> >taking the cover off....Nathyn
>>
>> Huh.....What?????  Please explain why you have to turn the wheel twice
>[more snip]
>> depending on the gears. 2.73 turns for 2.73 gears etc.
>> Correct?
>
>Actually, I think it's all BS. I tried it with my car on a lift before.
>The driveshaft turned 1.5 times for every one tire turn. Does that mean
>I have a 1.50 gear? NO!!!! It means that this method is false and only
>works in some rare instances.
>
>--
>*************
>Matt Cremean
>mailto:creme1ma@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu
>+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
>1975 Cutlass S Hardtop Coupe (250 L-6 1bbl) "parts car"
>1973 Cutlass Supreme Hardtop Coupe (350 V-8 4bbl) "The Oldsmoslow"
>1970 Cutlass S Holiday Coupe (350 V-8 2bbl) "The Unit"
>1983 Ch*vrolet C*price (305 V-8 4bbl) "The Blue Taxi"
>+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
>http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/
>**************************************************
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 10:56:57 -0700
From: Greg Rollin <supercars@transport.com>
Subject: Re: 70 350 motors (was Re: MAYBE W-32?)

Jason Adcock wrote:

> I think the W-31's got the same treatment the 9 307's got versus the Y 307's
> during the 80's.  Different carburetors, hotter camshafts, taller valve
> springs, possibly different heads (the 9's didn't get different ones,
> though).  I'm sure there are some W-31 buffs out there who could enlighten
> us...
>

- ----------------------
Can't comment on the 307's, but here's the skinny on 68-70 W-31's.

10.5 comp. ratio (flat top pistons)
68 and 69's used #5 heads fitted with 2" intake valves and 1.625" exhausts.
70's used #6 heads and used the same valves as the 68-69.
Camshaft for all three years was 308 degree duration and .474" lift.
Matching heavy duty valve springs.
Special recalibrated Q-Jet carb.
Larger harmonic balancer.
70's used a aluminum intake (68-69's used the standard cast iron intake).
Engines were "select-fit" assembled.  Cylinder bores are honed to the "D" spec.
and use "A" pistons resulting in a larger skirt clearance of .003" - .0035".
A 6 blade fan with a fan clutch was used.
All were Force-Air inducted.
Oddly enough, there is no special W-31 coded distributor.
Exhaust manifolds were the same as the standard 350.  But BOTH exhaust pipes
and mufflers were 2 1/4" inlets (2" outlet).

Greg Rollin
Supercars Unlimited (Where Cutlass/4-4-2 is ALL we do!)
Portland, Oregon  503-244-8249
http://www.supercarsunlimited.com
E-mail: supercars@transport.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:07:55 -0400
From: RAY.COSTANZO@firstunion.com
Subject: 1.50:1 gears

TO: Softswitch.OAS
CC:
FROM: RAY.COSTANZO@TAOFUN1
SUBJECT:  1.50:1 gears

   Hey]  Turning the wheel method has to work, doesn't it?  If your dr
   iveshaft spins 1.5 times, then you either have 1.50:1 gears or you'
   ve got some really worn gears that are slipping]
   So, that's how you're able to get 154 miles to the gallon, huh?

   Ray Costanzo
   87 409 Cutlass













































------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 11:26:43 -0700
From: "John Young" <realtorjohn@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: MAYBE W-32?

Unless of course it was a 69, then it was a 400.
realtorjohn@sprynet.com
69 442 W-32


- ----------
> From: Jason Adcock <rocketolds@vt.edu>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: MAYBE W-32?
> Date: Wednesday, September 09, 1998 9:46 AM
>
> Oops, I'm all confused now.  I thought that the W-32 was a 350 small
block.
> I guess that's the W-31, huh?  :-)
>
> My bad...
>
> Jason Adcock
> mailto:rocketolds@vt.edu
> http://www.cslab.vt.edu/~jadcock
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM <Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Date: Wednesday, September 09, 1998 10:32 AM
> Subject: Re: MAYBE W-32?
>
>
> >Uh, Jason, the W-32 was a 455...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:29:43 -0400
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: 1.50:1 gears

Turning the wheel method has to work, doesn't it?  If your driveshaft spins
1.5 times, then you either have 1.50:1 gears or you've got some really worn
gears that are slipping]
_________

No, what you've got is that pesky 2:1 problem when using the
count-the-turns method on a non-posi rear end.  You've actually put the
spider gears in the final drive ratio, which does not happen in real life
(obviously).  This is really ~3:1 gearing, so find the nearest ratio that
was offered (likely 3.08:1 or 2.90-something:1).  Note that this assumes
that the spider gears are the same size; some rear ends use spider gears of
different diameters, which will result in a ratio other than 2:1.  Note
also that as we've seen here in the past, a worn posi unit can behave like
an open differential.

This also demonstrates why you want to go more than just one turn of the
wheels.  I usually turn the back wheels ten revolutions and count the
driveshaft turns.  It's a lot easier to differentiate between 34.2 and 32.3
revs of the driveshaft than between 3.42 and 3.23 revs.

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:36:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Nathyn M. Knipe" <nmknipe@mailbox.syr.edu>
Subject: Re: how to determine your gear ratio...

no you have the wrong idea........it is hard to explain and i am not even
sure myself how it all works...but trust me it works....i have done it
many times and it has always been right.....i have done it with a posi and
a non posi, both of which worked out ...TRUST ME!!!!  i will try to find
out for ya...but i am low on time right now.....

On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, RANDY A GEISEL wrote:

>
>
> >if it isn't posi...put the car in neutral and turn your tire two
> >revolutions and count the revolutions of the drive shaft...that will be
> >approximately the gear ratio...so if you have a 3.73 gear ratio...the
> >drive shaft will rotate about 3.73 revolutions........IF IT IS POSI, just
> >the rotate the tire once........this is a  hell of a lot easier than
> >taking the cover off....Nathyn
>
>
> Huh.....What?????  Please explain why you have to turn the wheel twice
> without posi?
>
> It shouldn't matter either way, a limited slip carrier just "locks" in the
> non-drive wheel. It doesn't change the gearing. If you turn the drive wheel
> on an open rear the driveshaft still turns XX number of revolutions
> depending on the gears. 2.73 turns for 2.73 gears etc.
> Correct?
>
> Confused,
> Randy
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:36:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Nathyn M. Knipe" <nmknipe@mailbox.syr.edu>
Subject: Re: How to determine rear gears

JUST TRY IT....YOU WILL SEE!!

On Wed, 9 Sep 1998 RAY.COSTANZO@firstunion.com wrote:

>
> TO: Softswitch.OAS
> CC:
> FROM: RAY.COSTANZO@TAOFUN1
> SUBJECT:  How to determine rear gears
>
>    Uh, why would you rotate the tire twice if you have posi?
>
>    The driveshaft will spin the same number of times regardless.
>
>    Ray Costanzo
>    87 409 Cutlass
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Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:33:46 -0400
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: MAYBE W-32?

Unless of course it was a 69, then it was a 400.
realtorjohn@sprynet.com
69 442 W-32
_____________

I _knew_ somebody was going to chime in about this ;-)

The thread (admittedly now long-forgotten) was about a 1970 W-32.

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 11:52:24 -0700
From: "Chris Sparks (aka Mr. Ada)" <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Subject: I thought I saw an Oldsmobile.  I did.  I did.

Hi all,

Yesterday while driving home I saw a parking lot filled with vintage cars.
I thought to myself
"Does Chris (for Karl's benefit :-) do you want to stop and look.  There are
probably no Oldses."  Well
I did stop and out of the 30 or so cars there, 2 were Oldsmobiles.  One was a
1965 Starfire
(Definitely a keeper) and a 67 Cutlass (Beauuuutiful).  There were other kinds
of cars but I don't
remember what they were.  I guess I have Oldsmobilitis.  I must have tunnel
vision! :-)

Later....

- --
Chris Sparks
68 442 SC - Frosty
68 442 HT - Scarlet
68 442 HT - Saffron
82 DRB    - Dr. "B"
http://www.catalina-inter.net/mrada

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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #1472
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