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cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #1490


oldsmobile-digest    Thursday, September 17 1998    Volume 01 : Number 1490



Mid-Ohio Olds Show  9/20
RE:  Virus Warning!!
Re: Another Overheating Question!
Buying/shipping cars long distance
Impala & Cutlass
RE: Buying/shipping cars long distance
oldsmobile-digest V1 #1489
Re: Olds list opinion wanted
Toronado Oil Pan wanted + More
Inert plastic, was: Carb crap, Car Prob, Needle&seat, the Spanish Inquisition
R.T.
Re: Inert plastic, was: Carb crap, Car Prob, Needle&seat, the Spanish 
Inquisi...
Re: RE: Car/Parts 4 sale
dwell problem Unilite Distributor
Re: Olds list opinion wanted
Re: What Parts for a fuel line?
Re: h*lp
price of a 455 $$$$$$ ????
Re: still overheating
Re: Toronado Oil Pan wanted + More
Re: still overheating
Re: 1968,  &  70-72 Master cylinders
Car/Parts 4 sale and location
Re: Re: Olds list opinion wanted
Re: price of a 455 $$$$$$ ????
Re: sub out a 47 Olds with a G-body chassis
Re: V8 Diesel 260CuInch (4.3l) olds engine
Torque Peak, was: Preliminary results of consultation; 455 Aeroplane
Re: sub out a 47 Olds with a G-body chassis
Re: What Parts for a fuel line?
Re: parts needed for 75 olds Cutlass Supreme
Re: Car/Parts 4 sale
Re: parts needed for 75 olds Cutlass Supreme
Re: Another ? and Thanks Charley... (was: 80's G-Body Part Needed.)
Re: Which Converter?
Re: car prob?? was Re: Kane County, IL show & swap & car prob??
NSCA 18-20th National Street Car Assc
Re: Inert plastic, was: Carb crap, Car Prob, Needle&seat, the Spanish Inquisi..
rough running finally fixed!!!!
Re: Which Converter?
is chebucto down today?
Re: Tires for Sale
Re: Inert plastic, was: Carb crap, Car Prob, Needle&seat, the Spanish 
Inquisi..
The Pinging 307
Carb Gunk vs Experience
Re: 70-72 Master cylinders
Springs and shocks for a 68 442
Re: NSCA 18-20th National Street Car Assc
Re: The Pinging 307

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 10:00:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: The Viking <avar@infinet.com>
Subject: Mid-Ohio Olds Show  9/20

Last Plug

12th Annual Mid-Ohio Olds Show and Swap Meet.
All Oldsmobiles welcome regardless of shape,size or condition
Sunday September 20, 1998
The Anderson General Store - Rt 161 and Sawmill Road, Columbus, Ohio
OCA Judging - Peoples Choice Awards - Prizes and Goodies
Registration ends at 11;30AM - Awards at 4:00 PM
Good Fun and Good Oldsmobiling

See You There!


Al Varhus
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.infinet.com/~avar
http://www.infinet.com/~avar/olds.html
Oldsmobile Club of America # 29111
  Mid Ohio Chapter #136
  Gem City Rockets


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 09:14:12 -0500
From: Martin Thomas-WLTM07 <Thomas_Martin-WLTM07@css.mot.com>
Subject: RE:  Virus Warning!!

Please don't spread virus garbage here, this is for Oldsmobile's.  99.9%
of all virus' that are "Advertised" are hoax's.  Don't make the author
of that email happy by spreading it.

You can check Symantec website and they have a place to see if it is a
read virus or a hoax.  Just don't waste bandwidth spreading to all you
know.

Sorry, this happens all to much, please keep hoaxes the trash where they
belong.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 10:28:24 -0400
From: Brian Kerr <bkerr@golden.net>
Subject: Re: Another Overheating Question!

    I thought I would toss my limited experiences into the fray on this thread.
I have just completed a 2 year frame off resto on my 69 Cutlass conv. It has a
71 455 from a 442, with C heads and headers on it. It has a 195 degree t-stat, 
2
core rad and a 5 blade GM flex fan. It seemed to be running quite warm so I
installed a temp gauge, but before installing the guage, I tested it in an
electric kettle. With the sensor in the rapidly boiling water, (not touching 
the
bottom or sides) it reads about 103 Celcius. There is no calibration on it so I
just installed it with that correction factor in mind. In the range that the
engine operates in it has  marks for 190 and 230 F, and one for 100 C.  When 
the
car is crusing easily - 50 mph it stays right around 195-200F. When driving
around town, some idling etc it varies from 190 to about 200. - I can tell when
the t-stat opens because the temp drops 5 degrees very quickly. On the highway
at 70-80mph the guage runs at the 99-101 C mark which is about 210-214 F. When
idling for longer periods on hot days, it runs about 103C - 218F. When the
engine is running I have never seen the guage run over this point. I have the
sending unit installed in the intake where the thermostatically controlled
vacuum sensor used to be. It was not hooked up as 2 of the 3 tubes for the 
hoses
wer broken off it. When the car is shut off after idling, the guage will go up
to about 230, and comes down as soon as it is started up. I drove the car for a
couple hundred miles and then did the "10 minute rad flush" procedure and
refilled with prestone and water at a 2:1 ratio. I saw absolutely no difference
in the temp readings. I have driven the car 1200 miles so far, some of it hard
(50miles on the highway at 90 mph) some of easy (with my wife in the car) and 
it
has run almost flawlessly. The only flaw I found was when traffic on the 
highway
got tied up by a truck rollover and the 50 minute drive took over 2 hours - (1
hour of extended idling with the heat guage at 103C). After a period of time -
30 min of extended idling with very short periods of faster idling, the car
began to miss and lose rpms. Slipping into neutral and bringing up the rpms
significantly would cure the problem for a few minutes. I did not notice any
appreciable soot or smoke, and when reving the engine it was very smooth. Am I
just loading up the plugs with some carbon? It was a rainy day - 100 % humidity
and 80F air temps. It ran perfectly before this and after this. Any ideas?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 10:25:15 -0400
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Buying/shipping cars long distance

I'm looking for a little advice from anyone who's done this.  Specifically,
if I'm using a transport company to deliver the car, how have people
handled the cash transaction with the seller?  Do you give a certified
check to the transport company, who in turn hands it to the seller when the
car is picked up?  Any experiences on the list?

As a point of information, if anyone does plan to buy a car long distance,
the best technique I've found for "seeing" the car is not photos, but a
video.  You get a much better feel for the shape the car is in, plus if the
seller is really good about it, they will highlight all the problem areas
so you get an honest assessment.  Alternatively, have an independent party
local to the car make the video.  I had one seller who was actually able to
zoom in on both the VIN through the windshield and the VIN-derivative
number on the block to prove it was matching.

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 10:41:39 -0400
From: Steve Ochs <Steve_Ochs@compuserve.com>
Subject: Impala & Cutlass

Message text written by Ray
> I think he kinda
wishes he had waited for the tach and console shift!
<

But he would have lost the voltmeter and oil pressure gage :)  Besides, the
word on the Impala list is that the '95s are faster.

To keep this Olds related, I am facing the choice of what to do this
winter.  I can't deal with three vehicles again, but Idon't want to drive
the Impala either.  However, given the choice, the Impala will go , even
though it is faster.  The '87 442 will never be sold if I can help it.  It
may not be fast, but it looks and sounds good, and I still get the question
"does that have a 442 CID engine in it?".



Steve Ochs aka N8TYS- Mfg. Engineer - GM Powertrain - Parma, Ohio
Transmission Division (4T60/65-E & 4L60-E) - Steve_Ochs@compuserve.com
The statements and opinions expressed here are NOT an official
statement of General Motors or the GM Powertrain Division

'96 DCM Impala SS (Naisso #1365)  '87 Olds Cutlass 442 (OCA #028505)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 10:48:27 -0400
From: "Proietto, Fernando [Ontario]" <Fernando.Proietto@ec.gc.ca>
Subject: RE: Buying/shipping cars long distance

Video, good idea Joe. I once was interested in a car up here in Canada that
was located 15 hours away. Sent the guy a roll of film. He took 36 photos
and even developed them for me. Anyway, video would prove to be better, and
you would also get sound, which could prove the engine does run. I'll have
to remember that the next a long distance car comes my way. Now-a-days all
most everyone has a camcorder or access to one.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM [SMTP:Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM]
> Sent:	Thursday, September 17, 1998 10:25 AM
> To:	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject:	Buying/shipping cars long distance
>
> I'm looking for a little advice from anyone who's done this.
> Specifically,
> if I'm using a transport company to deliver the car, how have people
> handled the cash transaction with the seller?  Do you give a certified
> check to the transport company, who in turn hands it to the seller when
> the
> car is picked up?  Any experiences on the list?
>
> As a point of information, if anyone does plan to buy a car long distance,
> the best technique I've found for "seeing" the car is not photos, but a
> video.  You get a much better feel for the shape the car is in, plus if
> the
> seller is really good about it, they will highlight all the problem areas
> so you get an honest assessment.  Alternatively, have an independent party
> local to the car make the video.  I had one seller who was actually able
> to
> zoom in on both the VIN through the windshield and the VIN-derivative
> number on the block to prove it was matching.
>
> Joe Padavano
> padavano.joe@orbital.com
>
> 66 442
> 68 W-30
> 69 H/O
> 70 W-30
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 11:04:37 -0400
From: Steve Ochs <Steve_Ochs@compuserve.com>
Subject: oldsmobile-digest V1 #1489

Anyone questioning the durability of a built 200-4R - there is an awsome
1987 Cutlass Supreme running at Norwalk with 3.73 rear and 200-4R running
12.2 in the quarter mile.  He has a diesel 350 built by Mondello to 440
CID.  I wouldn't belive it if I hadn't seen it myself.  The tranny has held
up well. BTW, other than the speed, it looks and is completely stock and
street driven regularly.


Steve Ochs aka N8TYS- Mfg. Engineer - GM Powertrain - Parma, Ohio
Transmission Division (4T60/65-E & 4L60-E) - Steve_Ochs@compuserve.com
The statements and opinions expressed here are NOT an official
statement of General Motors or the GM Powertrain Division

'96 DCM Impala SS (Naisso #1365)  '87 Olds Cutlass 442 (OCA #028505)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 11:11:56 EDT
From: KarlAune@aol.com
Subject: Re: Olds list opinion wanted

<< How come when someone has something for sale or trade on this list they
never
 say where there from? >>
[micro-snip]
<< I don't know how it is for the rest of the list but, shipping is a large
factor in making a purchase as far as I'm concerned. How does everybody else
feel about this? John >>

Well John, unfortunately some of us cannot get these parts just anywhere
(including around the corner!), and in those cases, we just hafta lump it.

Yes the list vendors should say where they are located.
I was just ruminating on this the other day.
Canna recall, but think that J. Chermac's periodic E-catalog includes his
locale somewhere.

The only one who does communicate his locale always is OldsGuyGA, but only IF
he is a resident of Georgia.

If you do not like paying shipping, perhaps you could better explore other
sources near you. There is a place called Tamraz somewhere near me, but they
just do the boring Cutlasses and 4 4 2's so they are useless (heh heh). The
best yardes by me are 2 or more hours away by fast Oldsmobile.

Consider that most shipping costs do not equal filling a 25 gallon gas tank
twice.
But that is just my situaton.

Or should that be hallucination.

SOM
&KA <--------- a brain floating in a jar and hallucinating about life

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 10:13:47 -0500
From: "Reed, Steve" <sreed@cp.varco.com>
Subject: Toronado Oil Pan wanted + More

Hey all,
	Hopefully around winter time (If you can call it winter in
Austin!) I'll be digging back into my 455 and doing some modifications.
I am going to be needing a Toronado oil pan.  Does anyone have an extra,
or know of one in a junkyard in decent shape?  Suprisingly they're
aren't a lot of old boneyards here in Texas.

	P.S.  Who should I get my Intake gasket from?  I currently have
a steel gasket in the engine, and learned that this is not desirable.

	P.P.S.  MSD Ignition Users:  I am considering upgrading to an
MSD ignition.  What all is necessary for this combination?  I currently
have an HEI unit on my 455.

Any help is appreciated!

- -Steve Reed
'70 4-4-2 Ragtop
Austin, TX

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 11:28:17 EDT
From: KarlAune@aol.com
Subject: Inert plastic, was: Carb crap, Car Prob, Needle&seat, the Spanish
Inquisition

Previously, on "The Bizarre Mutating Subject...."

<< Lexan? >>

Uh, nope that is a strong plastic used for windows and I had heard it was used
in bullet-proofing, but Karl disbelieves that.

<<<<< Nope, its Teflon. >>>>>

<buzzer>
I'm sorry, but that is also wrong.
Teflon is a Fluorine-based material (discovered by accident!) which is used on
conventional non-stick coatings, and works on the same principle that carbon
trifluoride is used as a protecting group is some syntheses involving.......

Whoops!

What I was getting at was the material used in those wacky Nalgene bottles.
Used for anything from hydrochloric acid to sodium hydroxide (which etches
Pyrex [a type of glass used mostly in laboratory applications because of its
strength especially when subjected to sudden temperature changes] and other
glass).

Karl not know if Nalgene is material or company.

OLDS CONTENT HERE!

Karl visited run of the mill parts store today.
Was surprised to see Gabriel shock absorber models listed for 65-70 All.
Was not surprised to find those model #s missing from this place's shelves.
Better that way.
Karl wanted Monroes.

Plus I think my Olds is shaking.
Mebbe it was just me.
I need another beer.

Please do not drink and drive.

Shaking and driving is OK.

SOM
& {KA}

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 11:32:54 EDT
From: KarlAune@aol.com
Subject: R.T.

For the recent additions to the list, R.T. is short for #RocketTalk.

This can be found at www.lyrea.com/~buehner

and then click on the size 48 font text proclaiming RocketTalk.

While #RocketTalk is essentially an mIRC channel, the software that Mr.
Buehner uses includes a "firewall" to keep #RocketTalk traffic between people
using the Xoom software only.

While several on the list have adequate mIRC software, others do not. While it
may be more convenient to use mIRC, #RocketTalk at the website of C. Buehner
provides a common location which is findable by those who are not computer-
inclined enough to "make a go" of  mIRC software.

Whoops, this got kinda long.

I am writing this on Wednesday (pretty late for me, I might add) so that I can
send it Thursday morning and thus reduce Emailing Thursday morning so I can
turn in early and join RocketTalk at 8:00pm central time (Official start is
8:00pm Mountain Time, whatever that is...).

There was a good turnout last Thursday night. Hope to chat with you there. If
I am not present, I would appreciate your sympathy, as I could be late for
work If I have already missed RT. This is particularly possible as I have had
overtime every morning this week.

BTW: RT is the PROPER forum for non-olds topics, like "Mr. President",
"names", F*** O**'s (though you would still be deemed rude), flames, urban
legends, and other off-topic banter.

If more people could hold onto their comments until Thursday, the
Oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca would be a better forum. Because the subject would
be Oldsmobile for a change.

Further; Stop replying to shouted subject without altering the subject
heading. There is no reason for shouting to occur after the initial post. I
*might* read an initial posting with some shouting, but all shouted replies
will lack my input as I will delete them outright to preserve my eyesight.

Sam Johnson gets honorable mention here for his "conversion" to lower case in
the subject heading. Good work! Are you still getting bog on the holley? Also:
Karl prolly wrong about alt., but never had it make noise. My 55 amp
alternator is prolly a rebuild anyway. Karl mebbe go to a 100A one (per an old
post aboutupgrading innards) after other stuff fixed.

Rant! Rant! Rant!

Re: Canada!

I just heard this (And have to P.S. 'cause non-olds);
(From a rocking radio station in Chicago. This commercial advertizes that the
station plays 10 songs in a row or you win $10,000! [i.e. if you catch them
playing 9....])

As promo-commercial ends.......

"That's 9.25 songs Canadian,"


You see!
The non-Olds stuff is ENDLESS!
Y'all 've even got me doin' it!

SOM
&KA

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 11:38:12 EDT
From: SpeedCom@aol.com
Subject: Re: Inert plastic, was: Carb crap, Car Prob, Needle&seat, the Spanish
Inquisi...

In a message dated 9/17/98
 10:<BR31:<BR37 AM Central Daylight Ti, KarlAune@aol.com writes:

> Plus I think my Olds is shaking.
>  Mebbe it was just me.
>  I need another beer.
>
>  Please do not drink and drive.
>
>  Shaking and driving is OK.

Karl,

If I don't drive and drink, how the heck am I supposed to get any where???

Carron

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 11:44:23 EDT
From: SOMMERVLLE@aol.com
Subject: Re: RE: Car/Parts 4 sale

Chris, Will have the parts car here on saturday and know of a couple in yards
that will take some time to look at. Will let you know, Thanks Chris

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 11:49:52 -0400
From: "Ken Swick" <swickka@pa.net>
Subject: dwell problem Unilite Distributor

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BDE231.47E1D7E0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Need dwell on Mallory Unilite ... mechanical not vacuum ...=20
69 Olds Cutlass 350

About 5 months ago, I put in a Mallory Unilite mechanical advance =
distributor in my rebuilt 69 350.

Last week it started missing, bucking and acting like it had carb or =
plug problems. After troubleshooting it came down to the Unilite.

The points were not opening at all ... or very little which meant there =
was a=20
lot of wear for a 1000 miles.
Reset points at a guesstimate .. dwell showed 40 and 20 (dual point=20

My question is ... "what should dwell be on the Unilite ..."=20
ah yes, I have lost the instructions. Attempts to find Mallory on =
internet=20
have been futile to this point.=20

Ken Swick
swickka@pa.net

- ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BDE231.47E1D7E0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Need dwell on Mallory Unilite ... =
mechanical=20
</FONT><FONT size=3D2>not vacuum ... </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>69 Olds Cutlass 350</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>About 5 months ago, I put in a =
Mallory Unilite=20
</FONT><FONT size=3D2>mechanical advance distributor in my rebuilt =
</FONT><FONT=20
size=3D2>69 350.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Last week it started missing, =
bucking and acting=20
</FONT><FONT size=3D2>like it had carb or plug problems. After =
t</FONT><FONT=20
size=3D2>roubleshooting it came down to the Unilite.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>The points were not opening at all =
... or very=20
</FONT><FONT size=3D2>little which meant there was a </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>lot of wear for </FONT><FONT size=3D2>a 1000 =
miles.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Reset points at a guesstimate .. dwell showed =
</FONT><FONT=20
size=3D2>40 and 20 (dual point&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>My question is ... &quot;what should dwell be on the =

</FONT><FONT size=3D2>Unilite ...&quot; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>ah yes, I have lost the instructions. Attempts to =
</FONT><FONT=20
size=3D2>find Mallory on internet </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>have been futile to this point. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Ken Swick<BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:swickka@pa.net">swickka@pa.net</A></FONT></DIV></BODY></HT=
ML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BDE231.47E1D7E0--

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:43:06 +0000
From: Bob Blanchard <bob149@efortress.com>
Subject: Re: Olds list opinion wanted

>shipping is a large factor in making a purchase as far as I'm concerned. How
>does everybody else feel about this? I guess I'm just trying to simplify
these
>transactions alittle.


As long as it isn't going to need truck frieght, I con't care where it is
coming from.
Shippping isn't that expensive.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:45:20 +0000
From: Bob Blanchard <bob149@efortress.com>
Subject: Re: What Parts for a fuel line?

At 09:41 PM 9/16/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Was thinking of putting in braided line
>with a pressure gauge between the
>Qjet and stock fuel pump on the 455
>Starfire. What size line and AN fittings
>should I use?  Have any of you done
>this?

AN-6 fittings are 3/8"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 11:52:11 EDT
From: KarlAune@aol.com
Subject: Re: h*lp

In a message dated 98-09-17 09:21:07 EDT, you write:

<< excessive heat and low engine vaccum >>

Excessive heat???

What is excessive???

How long ago was rebuild ???
128K, re-ring at 98K.
OK, so just rings, no overbore??

Were HiPo parts swapped on at rebuild??
If not, when??

How long has heat/vacc been a prob?

Offhand factors affecting heat;
1)radiator should be suitable (two row seems barely adequate in most cases).
2)coolant level  (engine oil IS also a coolant!)
3) thermostat
4) water pump
5) too-lean idle will make engine run hot

None of these affect vacuum.

<<  My vaccum gage constantly reads 15'  no matter what I do, >>

Karl not know what proper vacc is, but heard it gets up to 30.

Inspect hoses to vacc advance, carb, for cracks.

No cracks is adequate.
Karl needs to replace one or more of these again.

When you installed HEI, did you have #1 piston at TDC of beginning of
compression stroke and have distributors marked with both rotors set on #1
cylinder wire, ....

Wait a sec.

What does your vacc guage read when car is off??

SOM
&KA

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 11:53:48 EDT
From: Edokuhl@aol.com
Subject: price of a 455 $$$$$$ ????

i am looking to drop a 455 in my delta and have been watching the papers... i
found a 73 98 complete for $695 or the motor for $350 or the th400 for $250 is
this about right for a 138k miles....says it runs,  i will rebuild b4 putting
it in the delta.....  let me know what you guys think.....jump on it or keep
looking...what year motor should i look for or does it matter.....?????


                                             edo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:56:46 +0000
From: Bob Blanchard <bob149@efortress.com>
Subject: Re: still overheating

>
>Which brings me to a question, for a strip only car, is a fan even
>really necessary?
>--

a electric one for cool-down in inbetween runs would be nice.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:53:59 +0000
From: Bob Blanchard <bob149@efortress.com>
Subject: Re: Toronado Oil Pan wanted + More

At 10:13 AM 9/17/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Hey all,
>	Hopefully around winter time (If you can call it winter in
>Austin!) I'll be digging back into my 455 and doing some modifications.
>I am going to be needing a Toronado oil pan.  Does anyone have an extra,
>or know of one in a junkyard in decent shape?  Suprisingly they're
>aren't a lot of old boneyards here in Texas.

thats like finding the holy grail up here in WA :)
>
>	P.S.  Who should I get my Intake gasket from?  I currently have
>a steel gasket in the engine, and learned that this is not desirable.
>

I used the 2 piece intake gasket that came with my gasketset when i did the
heads. they seal ok but I am really concidering going back to the "turkytray"
one piece one , to keep the intake cool.

>	P.P.S.  MSD Ignition Users:  I am considering upgrading to an
>MSD ignition.  What all is necessary for this combination?  I currently
>have an HEI unit on my 455.
>
( WARNING ,you might not like this)

I had a MSD ignition and distriutor. It was the worst piece of crap I ever
bolted on
to a engine. Picky, ever fluctuating timing,and unlike the HEI i cant buy a
module
at a gas station in Wyoming at 3 AM (founf this out the hard way).
I'd just go with a good rebiult HEI .

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:55:21 +0000
From: Bob Blanchard <bob149@efortress.com>
Subject: Re: still overheating

>Well.......not exactly.  Without a thermostast the water circulates too fast
>therefore it doesn't stay in the rad long enough to dissipate the most heat.
>T-stat acts as a restrictor to slow the flow and keep the water in the rad
>longer.
>
>Right guys?

right :)

>Which brings me to this question.  What is the need for a high flow water
>pump? Wouldn't the use of one of these just force water through the radiator
>faster, giving it less time to cool?

I don't know :(

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 12:10:46 EDT
From: HURSTOLDZ@aol.com
Subject: Re: 1968,  &  70-72 Master cylinders

I dont have one,  so I have no picture

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 12:11:02 EDT
From: SOMMERVLLE@aol.com
Subject: Car/Parts 4 sale and location

response has been great  to my listing, for those of you that are asking here
is the list again and yes my location is in the top paragraph. Thanks Chris

In a message dated 9/15/98, 8:14:06 AM, SOMMERVLLE writes:
<<Well guys and gals made my rounds to the junkyards this weekend and here are
a few of the things that I've found. I'f you are interested please e-mail me
privately at
SOMMERVLLE@AOL.COM  or call (910) 487-1540 home or (910) 396-5420 work ask for
SSG Chris Sommerville (I'm in the Army, located in Fayetteville NC) all parts
are priced without shipping
all of this stuff is subject to trade need some 69 442 parts, and always
looking for another 442.
MY STUFF
1970 442 south carolina car, has some rust and dents but is a solid start. Is
a bench seat, auto on the column 455 AC car. Has the wrong year 455 in it but
know where the original 455 is located at. Car has potentialwas green on green
w/ black leather interior. Have pictures and can e-mail on request want $1200

68-72 A body rear end 3.73 posi complete (it's out of a ch-vy) good shape $350

ladder bars and mounts for GM A body $75

Set of weld wheels front 2 are 15x5 and rear 2 are 15x8 good shape $400

new 4 core radiator for 68-72 442 used one month $200

flowmaster exhaust from the header collectors to exit behind rear wheels  good
shape $100

set of "C" heads pulled off of a running motor I would say that they need to
be gone through $125

set of "8" heads off of a running motor $75

picking up a 1969 C/S parts car in decent shape has a #5 headed 350 and a
turbo 400 e-mail for needs

Junkyards, will act as the middle man and I will have to get a price from the
yard for you.
1968 442 some small items no nose has a "C" headed 400 and auto trans (Sitting
for some time)

1966 or 67 F85 (2, one is a post car) and cutlass complete

several 1969 and 70-72 cutlass's 2 and 4drs

1971 442 been stipped inside and doors are gone rest of car in decent shape

several 455's most with G and J heads. one E motor

2 sets of T-Tops for 1979 and newer cutlass's good shape

several 73-77 cutlass and 442's

TONS of G body stuff in great shape have been getting prices for everyone!!!!
If you are interested let me know Thanks Chris

>>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 12:17:13 EDT
From: SOMMERVLLE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Olds list opinion wanted

I've bought and sold stuff on the list and shpping isn't that much when you
consider a 10-18 hour drive, gas,  lost time ect. Just some things are hard to
find and some people's prices on the list are still cheaper than alot of
salvage yards, besides I would trust the list members more that some yards
that I have delt with in the past. Just my 2 penny's worth. Thanks Chris



Chris Sommerville
69 442SC
70 442HC
70 W31
AND A LOT OF PARTS!!!!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 12:21:04 EDT
From: SOMMERVLLE@aol.com
Subject: Re: price of a 455 $$$$$$ ????

EDO, where are you at? I think that you could find a good running or better
rebuilder for that money, but if it all you can find any 455 is better than no
455!!!!!Chris

Chris Sommerville
69 442SC
70 442HC
70 W31
AND LOTS OF PARTS!!!!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 09:16:02 -0700
From: Tom Lentz <tlentz@ior.com>
Subject: Re: sub out a 47 Olds with a G-body chassis

Regarding your questions:

1) '78 and '79 G-body frame are beefier.  In '80 (or was it '81?) they
lightened them up.  It's not a big difference so don't panic if you
can't find a '78-'79, but if you have a choice. . .  The rust is most
likely to be at the rear of the frame, behind the rear wheels.  Check
there first.  Also, '78's are a bit of an oddball when it comes to
brakes, etc.  One-off parts unique to that year.  '79-up are mostly the
same.  One more tip, get a frame from a V8 car.  Sometimes V6 cars
(especially Buicks) didn't come with some extra cross-bracing.  A H/O,
442, or Monte SS would have a quicker-ratio steering box, beefier
springs, and bigger anti-sway bars.
2) Any engine you like will fit the chassis.  Fitting a big-block
between your fenders and clearing the firewall will be the problem.
With a heavy post-war body you're probably best off with a TH-400.
Definitely a TH400 if you're going the 455 route.  The 403 route could
survive with a well built TH350.  The 200-4R *can* be built to live, but
they generally do better in lighter cars (under 4000 lbs).
3) see #2.
4) I dunno where you're at, but around here (WA State), 455's are a
dime-a-dozen in the junkyards.  Mostly smog motors, but a little looking
finds older C-heads without much problem.  I have yet to see a 403
(although I'm not particularly looking for them, so I never check Trans
Am's).  My personal favorite (just ask Charlie B!) would be the 425.
Higher revving oversquare bore, shorter stroke, forged crank. . .
5) Whoah, what a gnarly idea.  I'd love to see that when it's finished!
How about putting the toro engine and tranny in the *rear*?  I'm not
familiar with the body lines of a 47 olds, so I have no guess whatsoever
as to if it would fit.

Tom Lentz
tlentz@ior.com
http://www.ior.com/~tlentz/hurst.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 09:00:30 -0700
From: Tom Lentz <tlentz@ior.com>
Subject: Re: V8 Diesel 260CuInch (4.3l) olds engine

I just gotta ask *WHY* anyone would want one of these?!?  I don't
remember the specs, but they make something like 80hp.  And I thought a
260 gas was slow at 105hp. . .

Maybe it might make a good generator engine or irrigation pump or
something?

350 diesels should be much more commonly available (although many of
them may have spun bearings, I think the rear main was commonly broke on
these).  And if the 260 diesel uses the same block as the 260 gas, then
the block will be the same physical size as the 350.

Tom Lentz
tlentz@ior.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 12:38:29 EDT
From: KarlAune@aol.com
Subject: Torque Peak, was: Preliminary results of consultation; 455 Aeroplane

This is to adress an issue I raised on some several occasions, once in asking
BIGJERMES or whomever had the Edelbrock heads what was the size of his
primaries.

((Hey baby! I got a really big primary!))

I asked him that because it seemed to me his 1/8 times were showing better
gains than his 1/4 times, perhaps indicating that his torque peak was
relatively low.

In my posting about what J McFarlane thought about the 455 Stearman ideas, I
was unable to show what he was responding to, as he did not post the ideas as
presented to him. The reason I mention this is because without using a gear
reducer, you are forcrd to modify the torque peak to 1800-2200 RPM.

So, here it is;

<< 2) carburetion is a bad idea
       (The 1964 Cessna sported the 330's air cleaner, so....)
       While FI systems are nearly ideal for this application, I suppose that
an EXTERNAL oxygen sensor is necessary to aid the computer control in
maintaining the correct fuel/air mixtures in the varying altitudes. >>

Well, that was off-subject, but a spur-of-the moment brainstorm that merited
posting *somewhere* !
On to the meat!

<<4) Yup. Here we are. Gear reduction. RPM desired; "1800-2100 for cruise".
       Since (BTW how long have engines revved high?) the 30's (??)
transmissions were used to modify the final gearing to the wheels so as to
keep engine operation within the "power band". What is necessary to build a
455 that has a power band in that range?
       One of the posts said that gear reduction was absolutely necessary
because the power band of the Olds 455 was too high. I replied (Karl a good
studern of Perf. Prof. !!) that the bare block did not have a power band until
the accoutrements were strapped on. (Because airflow is key!) >>

And the responce is as previously viewed;

BTW(considering all the input into 455 aeroplane, I expected more reaction to
the initial post instead of the actual NONE)

 << 4. You're catching on.  Air flow "tuning" {both intake and exhaust} can
have a significant impact upon where an engine's peak volumetric efficiency
occurs. Given adequate packaging space in the airframe, you should be able to
tune intake/exhaust systems for torque output in the rpm span you indicated.

 Overall, my impression of using a 455 Olds for aircraft applications is that
its weight may be a negative factor.  When the "Thunder" engines were being
developed for crop dusters years ago, I did some consulting with the cylinder
head and block designer.  You may recall that these were hemisphere chambers
particularly well suited to low rpm combustion efficiency.  If I recall
correctly, package weight was a prime consideration. >>

And this goes back to the intakes of the Chrysler 413 simulating Hemholtz
Resonators. (thanks Joe and Lou!)

Essentially, the smallest air restriction governs your torque peak.
Tuning your intake and exhaust runners/pipes lengths can add to that.

Here are some formulae;

exhaust:
Peak torque RPM = (cross section area)x(88200)/cylinder vol

that is also applicable to intake runners

And, of course for Carbs, Roe stated;

[(engine CID x max RPM) / 3456] x VE =CFM

CID is your displacement
RPM - if you do not know, save this post and read it a year from now.
VE - volumetric efficiency. This is the ratio of actual air mass flowing
through the engine to the air mass that theoretically COULD pass through the
engine. Most engines are approx 75%. Mine might be 65-70% (2v carb and single
exh). Ken Snyder's Grace is prolly 80%. "A full race engine has a VE of about
90%  at max speed, about 95 at max torque"

And if you wanna calc your own VE;

CFM x 4.38 = airflow pounds per hour

and as an aside;

CFM x 4.38 x fuel/air ratio = fuelflow pounds per hour

But a little knowledge is dangerous.
For the complete scoop, sit in with the Performance Professor at

www.Racermall.com

You'll never look back.

SOM
&KA

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 12:45:39 EDT
From: SpeedCom@aol.com
Subject: Re: sub out a 47 Olds with a G-body chassis

In a message dated 9/17/98
 11:<BR40:<BR03 AM Central Daylight Ti, tlentz@ior.com writes:

> 5) Whoah, what a gnarly idea.  I'd love to see that when it's finished!
>  How about putting the toro engine and tranny in the *rear*?  I'm not
>  familiar with the body lines of a 47 olds, so I have no guess whatsoever
>  as to if it would fit.
>

Tom,

Thaks for the good data. I am starting a permanent file on this subject so's I
can buy the right stuff.

I am in East Tennessee. I suppose there are lots of junkyards around, but I
haven't started cruising yet. I have asked Chris S. to give me a guess as to
his access to these parts, and might not have to do my own cruising (listening
Chris?).

As for the mid-engined Toro retro, I can't stand to lose the rear seating as
this will be my "family car" for time eternal, or until I croak.

Cheers/Carron

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 09:51:39 +0000
From: Bob Blanchard <bob149@efortress.com>
Subject: Re: What Parts for a fuel line?

 Note that the dash number is the hose size in 16ths
>of an inch (-6 = 6/16 = 3/8; -8 = 8/16 = 1/2).  Most of the adapter AN
>fittings you'll need to mate to your stock fuel pump and carb will be -6
>size.
>
>

Ahhhhhhh, so they are not just random #'s. :)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:13:34 -0400
From: squeegy <desn0004@algonquinc.on.ca>
Subject: Re: parts needed for 75 olds Cutlass Supreme

Well give me a list of everything you have? I do need door panels, dash
cover,miscelaneous parts.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:17:26 -0400
From: squeegy <desn0004@algonquinc.on.ca>
Subject: Re: Car/Parts 4 sale

Let me know what you find for a 1975 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme, Front
bumper, rear quarters, original radio.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:22:02 -0400
From: squeegy <desn0004@algonquinc.on.ca>
Subject: Re: parts needed for 75 olds Cutlass Supreme

I live in Ottawa, Ontario Will they fit and are they in good shape.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:32:35 EDT
From: CRuper1@aol.com
Subject: Re: Another ? and Thanks Charley... (was: 80's G-Body Part Needed.)

In a message dated 98-09-17 01:24:10 EDT, you write:

<<
 > talked in the past about the heater on a G body leaking into the car.

 Couple possibilities.  One, heater core's shot.  Two, heater hose clamp(s)
are
 not tightenned down completely.  That's about it, for the heater.  The
 possibility exists, on AC cars, for the EVAP case's drain hole ~could~ be
 plugged and moisture is leaking in...  Doubtful, but ~possible~ if it's only
 ~water~ coming in.  Most likely a heater core problem, though.  If it ~only~
 leaks when the car is washed, or it rains, there's other possibilities
openned
 up, like a cracked heater case, faulty/missing door harness grommet/plug,
 windshield leaks, etc...

 --
 Oldsmagnet - Charley Buehner >>

Uhhh... sorry.  I guess I did forget to mention that part.  Only leaks when it
rains (and normally hard, and long before it happens, like a good overnight
steady rain, or a torrential downpour).  I'm sure it's not the core itself, or
a hose leaking.  I was thinking someone else was having a similar problem a
while back.

Chris Ruper

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:38:58 EDT
From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Which Converter?

In a message dated 98-09-17 07:49:18 EDT, you write:

<<  am trying and also wondering which converter would be better for my 455
 application.  I have a choice of a 3000 stall converter or a 3500 stall
 converter.  I have a 2400 in my car now.
 My Olds 455 is bored 30 over. It's got 10 ¼ 1 pistons in it. It's got a cam
 that is 224 intake 234 exhaust at .050 Lift is .496 intake .520 exhaust.

 Please help >>
it depends on the size of your rear end???
3:73,3:90 or 4:10 go with the 3500

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:41:03 EDT
From: CRuper1@aol.com
Subject: Re: car prob?? was Re: Kane County, IL show & swap & car prob??

In a message dated 98-09-17 04:19:07 EDT, you write:

<<
  The crap in the float bowl (if it doesn't come from the
 gas tank itself) is from fuel evaporating inthe bowl itself.  It has
 nothing
 to do with the gas somehow "mixing" or interacting with the material inside
 the float bowl.
 ____________

 That's not entirely true, Chris.  In the case of the two Q-jets I had to
 scrap, the metal of the float bowl area was flaking and bubbling up - the
 debris was most definitely being generated inside the float bowl.  What I
 don't know is if this was some phenomena due to the cars sitting for an
 excessive period of time (like a layer of water condensed inside the float
 bowl and corroded the metal) or if the metal was attacked by an additive in
 the gas (for example, the additive they use to create the "oxygenated fuel"
 which is sold in major metro areas in the winter).

 Joe Padavano >>

Sorry, I guessed that most would consider something like this (the case you
are describing) as unusual, and not "the norm".  Yes, I'm sure it can happen,
and I'm not sure what the reasons are, but "in most cases" the cause the
evaporating fuel.  I'm not sure what it is that gets left behind (whether it
is part of the fuel, or the additives, etc.).  All you have to do is look at a
carb that has sat for  while, and you start to see "particles" of whatever it
is.  Some of the problems I'm figuring come from water/moisture settling out
of the gas from sitting (there is some amount of this in gas, and over time
it'll separate, as I'm sure alot of other chemical in it do...).

Chris Ruper

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:44:23 EDT
From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Subject: NSCA 18-20th National Street Car Assc

In a message dated 98-09-17 12:29:23 EDT, you write:

<< For those of you that are going to Stanton, Friday the 18th there will
 NOT be    test and tune that day, only inspection, swap meet set-up and
 pre registered pit parking, time  8:00am-5:00pm. Saturday, gates open at
 8:00am close at 7:00pm. Sunday 8:00am-5:30pm >>  Also Mid-Michigan Motorplex
is going to run their regular program from 8pm until ???? on Saturday.  So two
races on same day.

Mid-Michigan is in Stanton Michigan.  It is located between Lansing and Grand
Rapids.  If you take I-96west from Detroit to SR66 north to Stanton, then turn
right and there are signs to the track.

I encourage all Oldsmobile racers to participate including Al from Ohio

W MACHINES

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:59:22 EDT
From: CRuper1@aol.com
Subject: Re: Inert plastic, was: Carb crap, Car Prob, Needle&seat, the Spanish
Inquisi..

In a message dated 98-09-17 11:44:11 EDT, you write:

<<
 > Plus I think my Olds is shaking.
 >  Mebbe it was just me.
 >  I need another beer.
 >
 >  Please do not drink and drive.
 >
 >  Shaking and driving is OK.

 Karl,

 If I don't drive and drink, how the heck am I supposed to get any where???

 Carron >>

Besides, if you we're supposed to drive and drink, you obviously haven't been
to Ohio where they have drive thru stores that sell liquor (what a
concept...).  :-)

Chris Ruper

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:11:15 -0400
From: "Gregory Zimmerman" <zimmermangm@email.msn.com>
Subject: rough running finally fixed!!!!

After replacing my entire ignition system (all those annoying HEI
postings I had)), and the engine still ran like crap!  I was really
disappointed to spend $300 to find that out.

I took the Edelbrock Performer carb apart.  I took out every nut and
bolt that would come loose and sprayed crab cleaner down every hole I
could find.  I found a tiny little piece of what looked like saran
wrap under the bottom of one of the primary venturi things.  After
putting it all back together, it runs perfectly!

- -greg

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:07:40 -0400
From: "Gregory Zimmerman" <zimmermangm@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Which Converter?

What rear end gearing?  What's your cruise RPM on the highway?

I wouldn't get a TCI converter, I had one that blew out my front seal.
Turns out the shaft was out of round on the converter.  Summit racing
took it  back, but the labor cost and pain-in-ass-factor where
unrecoverable.

I've had good luck with my B&M torque converter though.

- -greg

- -----Original Message-----
From: Johnson, Sam <SAJOHNSON@usds.com>
To: 'Oldsmobile' <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Thursday, September 17, 1998 7:46 AM
Subject: Which Converter?


I am trying and also wondering which converter would be better for my
455
application.  I have a choice of a 3000 stall converter or a 3500
stall
converter.  I have a 2400 in my car now.
My Olds 455 is bored 30 over. It's got 10 ¼ 1 pistons in it. It's got
a cam
that is 224 intake 234 exhaust at .050 Lift is .496 intake .520
exhaust.

Please help

======================
Sam E. Johnson, JR.
>  <mailto:Cutlass403@ameritech.net> Cutlass403@ameritech.net
>1971 Cutlass S 455
>Westside! Chitown IL
20 Wins 13 Losses 1Tie
======================

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 11:21:18 -0700
From: Kerry Kroger <kerryk@MCI2000.com>
Subject: is chebucto down today?



------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:35:14 -0500
From: "John Kreitzer" <john.kreitzer@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Tires for Sale

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BDE240.00350160
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Sorry I didn't remember to put location. For the record these tires: =
P235-60/14 Uniroyal Ralleye GTS are located in Southeastern Wisconsin. =
Waukesha to be exact. I'm asking $40 ea. but am willing to entertain =
offers. Hope this helps.=20
John
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Ken Swick <swickka@pa.net>
    To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
    Date: Thursday, September 17, 1998 7:57 AM
    Subject: Re: Tires for Sale
   =20
   =20
    John :
    =20
    Where are you located?
    Location and Email address are helpful in posts.
    This helps interested parties to respond privately
    and to respond with location in mind.
    =20
    I am interested
    =20
    Ken Swick
    swickka@pa.net

- ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BDE240.00350160
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 =
HTML//EN">
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3509.100"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Sorry I didn't remember to put =
location. For the=20
record these tires: P235-60/14 Uniroyal Ralleye GTS are located in =
Southeastern=20
Wisconsin. Waukesha to be exact. I'm asking $40 ea. but am willing to =
entertain=20
offers. Hope this helps. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT><FONT =
size=3D2>John</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>-----Original =
Message-----</B><BR><B>From:=20
    </B>Ken Swick &lt;<A=20
    href=3D"mailto:swickka@pa.net">swickka@pa.net</A>&gt;<BR><B>To: =
</B><A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca">oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca</A> =
&lt;<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca">oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca</A>&g=
t;<BR><B>Date:=20
    </B>Thursday, September 17, 1998 7:57 AM<BR><B>Subject: </B>Re: =
Tires for=20
    Sale<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>John :</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Where are you =
located?</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Location and Email address are =
helpful in=20
    posts.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>This helps interested parties to =
respond=20
    privately</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>and to respond with location in=20
    mind.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I am interested</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Ken Swick<BR><A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:swickka@pa.net">swickka@pa.net</A></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOT=
E></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BDE240.00350160--

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 14:56:59 EDT
From: KarlAune@aol.com
Subject: Re: Inert plastic, was: Carb crap, Car Prob, Needle&seat, the Spanish
Inquisi..

In a message dated 98-09-17 14:02:14 EDT, you write:

<< you obviously haven't been to Ohio where they have drive thru stores that
sell liquor (what a concept...).  :-) >>

"Saw" you online earlier (when you sent thid). (slur implied, Karl really bad
now)
Dint know thaaan that I should contact you at the time.
But Naw Leans gots lotsa drive-thru lick-her-stores (hmmm well, you know what
I meant). Buddy got margaritas at drive thru.
[And of course goood tidings to our female members...huhuhuhuh...member]

And I still need to query. Carb thing. Dave Brown says my see thru filter is
worth excrement. Karl need confirmation.

Anybody use a see-thru filter and not have problems I describe?

Much like D.L., kinda pandering for applause here.

SOM
&KA

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 15:04:21 -0400
From: "Jason Adcock" <rocketolds@vt.edu>
Subject: The Pinging 307

List, does anyone have experience with an engine that just won't stop
pinging?  Here're the specs: rebuilt airhorn assy (replacing idle air bleed
tubes), brand spanking new EGR valve from the Olds dealer, new Delco O2
sensor, new Delco plugs, new Delcore wires, everything stock except K&N
filter.  She pings with anything but 93/94 octane...and that shouldn't be
the case; I should be able to put 87 in her, just like the factory
recommends.  The problem only occurs when the engine is hot (the warmer the
engine/ambient temperature/load, the more it pings).  Sometimes, a certain
throttle position will cause severe pinging and I can let off like 1/4 of an
inch and the pinging will almost completely stop.  It doesn't really occur
with heavy throttle applications; it's the worst in drive gear going about
35 mph with a decent amount of throttle.  I guess this pinging is because of
a lean condition, but why?  Does the K&N filter actually let too much air
in?  I'm planning on going home this weekend, so I'll get a bottle of fuel
system cleaner so maybe a gummed-up orifice will be opened up.  Anyone use
that new Valvoline Syn-Power or whatever it's called?

On a possibly related note, the car is sometimes hard to start cold; many
list members suggested a plugged fuel filter.  Could a slow-flowing fuel
filter also cause pinging?

TIA for the help!

Jason Adcock
E-mail: rocketolds@vt.edu
Web: http://www.cslab.vt.edu/~jadcock

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 15:16:12 EDT
From: KarlAune@aol.com
Subject: Carb Gunk vs Experience

In a message dated 98-09-17 13:43:40 EDT, you write:

<< Sorry, I guessed that most would consider something like this (the case you
 are describing) as unusual, and not "the norm".  Yes, I'm sure it can happen,
 and I'm not sure what the reasons are, but "in most cases" the cause the
 evaporating fuel.  I'm not sure what it is that gets left behind (whether it
 is part of the fuel, or the additives, etc.).  All you have to do is look at
a
 carb that has sat for  while, and you start to see "particles" of whatever it
 is.  Some of the problems I'm figuring come from water/moisture settling out
 of the gas from sitting (there is some amount of this in gas, and over time
 it'll separate, as I'm sure alot of other chemical in it do...).  >>

Well, I unnerstand that, but this is a 2v carb that has been in regular
service since david, (naamen, daavid) made it difficult to understand.

SOM
 &KA  <--DO I really wanna back StinkFist or summat?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 12:09:49 -0700
From: Greg Rollin <supercars@transport.com>
Subject: Re: 70-72 Master cylinders

Brent Pinkstaff wrote:

> FWIW,
>
> I went home at lunch time and got catalogs from Supercars, USA Parts
> Supply, Year One, Fusick, and Br**(NO I CAN'T BRING MYSELF TO WRITE
> IT!!!!!!!! AHHH!).
>
> Anyway, here's what they sell:
>
> Supercars-
> 06-174 - All w/front disc w/o power except '71-'72 w-30
>
> Br******-
> 26-142 - All disc w/o power except '71-'72 w-30
>
> USA Parts Supply-
> A4.650C - '67-'72 all w/drum brakes, '70 w-30 manual disc
>
> Fusick-
> 36235 - 67-72 all w/drum, 1970 manual disc
>
> Year One-
> NG1113 - all 67-72 drum, 1970 w-30 manual disc



Brent,
Just to further complicate this matter, I thought I'd check the
aftermarket catalogs.
Here's what I found for 1970 applications:

BENDIX:
#1489 All drum applications
#1521 Power disc
#1479 Manual disc

RAYBESTOS:
#36235 All drum applications
#36306 Power disc
#36235 Manual disc

WAGNER:
Same interchange as Raybestos.

EIS:
No listing for manual disc. Only separate listings for drum and power
disc.

DELCO:
#174-318 All drum applications
#174-262 Power disc (early)
#174-323 Power disc (late)
#174-262 Manual disc

Summary:
Bendix says they are different.  Raybestos and Wagner say they are the
same.
EIS lists the drum and power disc cylinder and shows nothing for manual
disc.
Delco throws another curve into this matter with the same number for
power
disc as manual disc............

Called another friend last night who has owned a 1970 W-30 4 speed for
19
years.  His has the disc style cylinder.  (Although this car had been
modified
a bit by the previous owner, the brakes and such appear to be original).

Second request for owners of 1970 manual disc cars to describe what
style original master cylinder your car has.  I know there are more List

members with these cars.  Help Brent and I come to a conclusion on this
one,
Or, does anyone have a 1970 magazine featuring one of these cars?

Greg Rollin
Supercars Unlimited (Where Cutlass/4-4-2 is ALL we do!)
Portland, Oregon  503-244-8249
http://www.supercarsunlimited.com
E-mail: supercars@transport.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 15:45:27 EDT
From: RuddOne@aol.com
Subject: Springs and shocks for a 68 442

Hey everyone!  I'm about to get my 442 on the road for the first time in ten
years. It needed extensive body work and every rubber seal replaced. Now I
need to work on the suspension. Local parts places can get stock springs but
I'm looking for performance better that stock if possible. Does anyone have
any advice?

Thanks!

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 15:49:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: The Viking <avar@infinet.com>
Subject: Re: NSCA 18-20th National Street Car Assc

On Thu, 17 Sep 1998 WMACHINES@aol.com wrote:

> I encourage all Oldsmobile racers to participate including Al from Ohio
>
> W MACHINES

Mark

Sheesh... now I have to figure out how to get another day off and find a
place for the dog  :-)  Seriously, I doubt I can make it but one neve
knows.. Thanks for the invite


 Al Varhus Columbus, Ohio
http://www.infinet.com/~avar
http://www.infinet.com/~avar/olds.html
Oldsmobile Club of America # 29111
  Mid Ohio Chapter #136
  Gem City Rockets


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 15:52:16 -0400
From: "Thomas Q. Bartee" <tbartee@mitre.org>
Subject: Re: The Pinging 307

Well, Jason, I've had two Olds Cutlasses over a period of 14 years (1 V6
and the latest a 307 V8) and my experience is that as time goes by and
miles get put on the car, they slowly ping worse and worse.  The V6
eventually pinged big-time (at about 150K) even when set at specs.  The V8
(which now has 153K miles) only pings under a very heavy load, and not too
often, and it's usually not noticeable unless you're driving with the
windows down (and even then it would only be noticeable to a sensitive
ear).  On both cars, later in their life, I had to use the high-octane fuel
or the pinging would be a lot worse.  I've tried adjusting the timing and
checking out various components and I haven't been able to make significant
headway on it.  When I first got the car (at 75K) there was no pinging at
all, then as the years went by, it got a little worse, but nothing like the
V6.  One possibility might be that you have carbon in the heads and perhaps
some of the GM intake cleaner fluid might help.  However, you don't want to
get this stuff on the outside of your carb or into the back 2 barrels.  I
had to replace my front choke-cutoff ($45) after I damaged it with the GM
intake cleaner.  It didn't seem to help the pinging significantly, anyway.
In the past I have also tried trak-auto-style "octane boosters" with
minimal improvement.

Some folks say that over time the timing chain wears and gets sloppy and
that likely contributes to the pinging.

In summary, here's my experience and thoughts:

1.  Both the 231 V6 and 307 V8s tend to get at least some pinging later in
their life, getting progressively worse.

2.  Many cars later in their life experience pinging (my mom's 78 Monarch
and my girlfriend's 84 Corolla both ping).

3.  Buy hi-octane gas for your car.

4.  The 307 will hold up much better than the 231 as far as pinging (my 307
is at 153K with minimal pinging).

5.  As long as the pinging is not extreme and the engine appears to be
tuned properly, keep drivin' - don't worry, be happy.   You may or may not
get results by trying to chase it down.

So, my take is that the pinging is not unusual for older V6s and V8s (as
well as other cars), and as long as your engine's tuned OK, suggest you put
in high-test gas to minimize it...and just keep on drivin.

Maybe someone else can offer a "solution" to this.  I'll be listening as well.

Good luck - Tom.



At 03:04 PM 9/17/98 -0400, you wrote:
>List, does anyone have experience with an engine that just won't stop
>pinging?  Here're the specs: rebuilt airhorn assy (replacing idle air bleed
>tubes), brand spanking new EGR valve from the Olds dealer, new Delco O2
>sensor, new Delco plugs, new Delcore wires, everything stock except K&N
>filter.  She pings with anything but 93/94 octane...and that shouldn't be
>the case; I should be able to put 87 in her, just like the factory
>recommends.  The problem only occurs when the engine is hot (the warmer the
>engine/ambient temperature/load, the more it pings).  Sometimes, a certain
>throttle position will cause severe pinging and I can let off like 1/4 of an
>inch and the pinging will almost completely stop.  It doesn't really occur
>with heavy throttle applications; it's the worst in drive gear going about
>35 mph with a decent amount of throttle.  I guess this pinging is because of
>a lean condition, but why?  Does the K&N filter actually let too much air
>in?  I'm planning on going home this weekend, so I'll get a bottle of fuel
>system cleaner so maybe a gummed-up orifice will be opened up.  Anyone use
>that new Valvoline Syn-Power or whatever it's called?
>
>On a possibly related note, the car is sometimes hard to start cold; many
>list members suggested a plugged fuel filter.  Could a slow-flowing fuel
>filter also cause pinging?
>
>TIA for the help!
>
>Jason Adcock
>E-mail: rocketolds@vt.edu
>Web: http://www.cslab.vt.edu/~jadcock
>

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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #1490
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