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Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #1423


oldsmobile-digest      Thursday, August 13 1998      Volume 01 : Number 1423



Re: HP question
Re: Tire/Wheel Balance Question
Re: HP question
Re: Distributor Woes
Re: Tire Store Horror Stories
Re: HP question
Re: Tire Store Horror Stories
Re: Changing Camshaft (was: HP question)
Trans fluid leak
Re: HP question
Re: HP question
Fender Attachment
C Heads was Re: HP question
Re: Fender Attachment
Re: [Toro] Tony Moore's resto
Re: HP question
Re: Olds model Stuff
RE: HP question
RE: Fender Attachment
Re: Olds model Stuff
Re: Trans fluid leak
Distributor Indexing, (Was Re: Yet more timing chain help)
engine ID
Re: HP question
Re: Changing Camshaft (was: HP question)
Re: Trans fluid leak
Vacation
Re: HP question
442 heads
Rochester
HO 307 HP
Re: Trans fluid leak
Re: Olds model Stuff & Parts Cars
Re: Trans fluid leak
Don't bid on 62 F-85
Re: Don't bid on 62 F-85
fender patch panels
bit the bullet
bit the bullet
timing advance: ported vacuum at WOT?
Re: Olds model Stuff & Parts Cars
Re: Olds model Stuff & Parts Cars
Re: Your flamed!
Hotchkis control arms
Re: fender patch panels
Re: fender patch panels {OOPS!!!}
Looking for '70-72 442 Convt.
'66
Re: Watch
1990 starting problem (fuel pump related)
Re: C Heads was Re: HP question
OLDS NEON
UNBOUNCE: engine ID
Re: Olds model Stuff
Re: Olds model Stuff
Re: UNBOUNCE: Toro Graveyard
Speedo gearing
Re: Olds model Stuff
catologs
Re: Speedo gearing
Diesel 350 conversion:  May I pick a brain or two?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 11:07:22 -0400
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: HP question

I wondered why they did this?  If I were to rebuild my automatic and putin
a
less mild camshaft, would I have problems?
________________

I've often wondered this myself - prolly something to do with TH400
reliability, however they _did_ put the TH400 (in beefed form) behind the
W-30.  It's interesting to note that in 1969 Olds offered 325 HP in the
base 442 with AT, 350 HP with MT, 360 HP with the W-30 (AT or MT), and 350
HP in the W-32 with AT.  From what I can glean from period data, the 69
W-32 appears to be the base MT motor ("C" heads and MT cam specs) in front
of a TH400.  Furthermore, it appears that the W-32 used the W-30's OW
trans, not the regular 442's OG trans.  Maybe that's the key.

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 11:25:57 -0400
From: "Thomas Q. Bartee" <tbartee@mitre.org>
Subject: Re: Tire/Wheel Balance Question

Thanks, everyone, for the replies on this.  Conclusions seem to be:

1) Problem is likely not the SSIII wheels themselves,
2) Best way to proceed is to find a shop with the balancer adapter that
centers the stud holes and try rebalancing.

I'll try rebalancing with the adapter before I consider other options (like
different wheels and tires).


>My questions are: has anyone had any problems with balancing tires on the
>SSIII wheels?  Would I likely get a better ride if I swapped for another
>type of wheel?  Any other things I should check?  I don't suspect the front
>alignment is bad since the tire wear is even across the front tires.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 11:25:59 -0400
From: Joseph Gambaccini <jgambaccini@ci.richmond.va.us>
Subject: Re: HP question

ok.  now, i knew about the autom. cam and manual cam in these cars,
etc.  i have a question about the t-400's:  what were the actual
differences between the t-400's used in the 442's and the "other"
oldses???  now, i've read the w-30 had a different torque convertor.
actually, even the 70 sx had a special convertor (i remember this in the
original road&track article).

i guess i'm seeking info so that when i finally get my t-400 rebuilt and
rid it of it's "slip and slam into 2nd, tire-chirpin, u-joint breakin'
routine", i'll request these things to my transmission guy so i won't
get just a standard rebuild, unless there were no differences originally
anyway.


Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM wrote:
>
> I wondered why they did this?  If I were to rebuild my automatic and putin
> a
> less mild camshaft, would I have problems?
> ________________
>
> I've often wondered this myself - prolly something to do with TH400
> reliability, however they _did_ put the TH400 (in beefed form) behind the
> W-30.  It's interesting to note that in 1969 Olds offered 325 HP in the
> base 442 with AT, 350 HP with MT, 360 HP with the W-30 (AT or MT), and 350
> HP in the W-32 with AT.  From what I can glean from period data, the 69
> W-32 appears to be the base MT motor ("C" heads and MT cam specs) in front
> of a TH400.  Furthermore, it appears that the W-32 used the W-30's OW
> trans, not the regular 442's OG trans.  Maybe that's the key.
>
> Joe Padavano
> padavano.joe@orbital.com
>
> 66 442
> 68 W-30
> 69 H/O
> 70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 11:35:33 -0400
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: Distributor Woes

>Joe, Roger, Bob, Mike, thanks for the input. Problem solved! A friend with
>a slide hammer removed the contrary contraption. It held on for four solid
>hits then popped right out.

Congratulations! I wonder whether adopting the slide-hammer technique as
the standard recommended procedure for distributor removal might save
people on the list some grief and anguish over broken distributors. Where
is a safe, non-damaging location to attach a slide-hammer on a distributor?

>One positive point was the fact that the oil
>pump drive shaft stayed in the block. I was worried the drive shaft would
>be as stuck to the distributor as the distributor was to the block. The

Once the distributor is out, it's not hard to remove the oil pump
driveshaft from it. A few good taps on the end of it with a ball-peen
usually frees it up.

>offending *adhesive* was varnish as Joe P. suggested. I'm glad the slide
>hammer worked. If the problem escalated to the *Bob* option ;) the engine
>would have been pulled and the list of might-as-wells would have grown
>exponentially.

I am honored to have a moniker for the worst possible scenario for screwing
up an engine job named after me... Yup, when you've broken off that bolt in
the block or dropped something down the intake port, I'm glad you will have
me in mind when you're spending those extra greasy hours pulling the engine
to rectify the situation... ;)

BTW, I had to resort to the "Bob-option" when I dropped the 5/16" socket
into the crankcase prelubing my 403; luckily the engine was already out, so
I just had to pull the pan and reseal it again. But don't think I didn't
try to reach into the inside of the engine with a pickup tool and find the
d*mn socket before I tore into her again...
__________________________________________________________
Bob Barry  	              MailTo:RBarry@Providence.Edu
1969 Toronado-  See at http://www.toronado.org/drbob69.htm
1970 Cutlass Supreme SX  and  1978 Electra  and  a
1988 Grand Wagoneer which can be seen at-
http://www.off-road.com/~ifsja/readers/wagoneers/barry.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 12:59:32 -0400
From: tgstoner@umich.edu
Subject: Re: Tire Store Horror Stories

Although it isn't Oldsmobile related since it involved the one Chevy I've
ever owned, I thought I'd throw in my own wheel-related idiot serviceperson
story.  And mine comes straight from the service department at one of the
local Chevrolet dealerships:

I had taken my '79 ElCamino in to the dealer for some routine work,
including a front end alignment.  When I returned at the appointed hour to
pick the car/truck back up from them, the service advisor told me that it
was ready but was missing one of the hub caps from the factory Rallye
wheels.  They had already ordered a new replacement for me and only
reluctantly admitted that one of their people had broken the original by
attempting to remove it with a pneumatic gun.  I case you're not familiar
with those wheels, the center caps for them are plastic and the design
includes fake chrome lug nuts.  I just wish I'd been there to see the guy's
face, as his gun all too successfully "removed" the first "nut" he tried.
Needless to say, I didn't trust them to work on my vehicles again after
that.

Tom Stoner
Oldsmobile Club of America #3943
Ann Arbor, MI
tgstoner@umich.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 09:57:05 -0700
From: "Chris Sparks (aka Mr. Ada)" <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Subject: Re: HP question

Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM wrote:

> I've often wondered this myself - prolly something to do with TH400
> reliability, however they _did_ put the TH400 (in beefed form) behind the

I was under the impression that the TH400 was the same behind a W-30versus a
442.

> W-30.  It's interesting to note that in 1969 Olds offered 325 HP in the
> base 442 with AT, 350 HP with MT, 360 HP with the W-30 (AT or MT), and 350
> HP in the W-32 with AT.  From what I can glean from period data, the 69
> W-32 appears to be the base MT motor ("C" heads and MT cam specs) in front
> of a TH400.  Furthermore, it appears that the W-32 used the W-30's OW
> trans, not the regular 442's OG trans.  Maybe that's the key.

I guess I would prefer the OW (pronounced ow) to OG (pronounced oh-gee). :-)

- --
Chris Sparks
68 442 SC - Frosty
68 442 HT - Scarlet
68 442 HT - Saffron
82 DRB    - Dr. "B"
http://www.catalina-inter.net/mrada

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 10:02:09 -0700
From: "Chris Sparks (aka Mr. Ada)" <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Subject: Re: Tire Store Horror Stories

tgstoner@umich.edu wrote:

> includes fake chrome lug nuts.  I just wish I'd been there to see the guy's
> face, as his gun all too successfully "removed" the first "nut" he tried.
> Needless to say, I didn't trust them to work on my vehicles again after
> that.

I guess you could say he was a real "lug nut"! :-)

- --
Chris Sparks
68 442 SC - Frosty
68 442 HT - Scarlet
68 442 HT - Saffron
82 DRB    - Dr. "B"
http://www.catalina-inter.net/mrada

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 13:13:33 -0400
From: tgstoner@umich.edu
Subject: Re: Changing Camshaft (was: HP question)

On Wed, 12 Aug 1998 "Chris Sparks (aka Mr. Ada)" <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
 wrote:
> If I were to rebuild my automatic and put in a
> less mild camshaft, would I have problems?

*******************
Hopefully someone else will give Chris the answer on just how radical a
camshaft he could substitute into the stock engine in his automatic
transmission'68 442 without causing drivability or reliability problems.
Although I don't have any experience with swapping cams, I know that lots
of other people on this list do.  Time to share that knowledge and
experience.

Tom Stoner
Oldsmobile Club of America #3943
Ann Arbor, MI
tgstoner@umich.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 13:29:31 EDT
From: <JonKrisInc@aol.com>
Subject: Trans fluid leak

My Delta seems to be leaking trans fluid (unless something else is red) when
the car is on a steep incline like a driveway. When the car is level, there is
no leak. Put it up on ramps and everything seems tight with no leak. Anyone
have anything like this happen to them?
Bruce
75 Delta 88 conv.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 13:37:24 -0400
From: tgstoner@umich.edu
Subject: Re: HP question

On Wed, 12 Aug 1998 "Chris Sparks (aka Mr. Ada)" <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
 wrote:
> So effectively if the THM400 takes 60 HP then I have roughly 265 HP.
Yuck!

******************
Did I miss someone saying that they thought 60 horsepower was lost when
driving through a TurboHydramatic 400 transmission?  I don't believe that
figure is even close to being correct.  And the reason that I don't believe
it is that when I worked at Hydramatic, they were still building the 400
transmission.  On the final assembly line, electric motors were used to put
those transmissions through testing just prior to being racked for shipment
to the car and truck assembly plants.  And those electric motors weren't 60
horsepower motors.  In fact, I'd be surprised if they were bigger than 20
or 30 horsepower.  If 20 or 30 horsepower would run those transmissions
through their normal operating speeds for testing, I just can't believe
that even that much power would be lost to the device in normal operation.
What do you think?

And Chris, although we can't make the easy direct comparison, let's assume
that your 325 gross horsepower 442 really has "only" about 220 net
horsepower available at the rear wheels.  That's still pretty darn
respectible.  Particularly when compared to something contemporary like my
'98 "built tough" 5,000 pound pickup, which is advertised as having 215 net
horsepower.

Tom Stoner
Oldsmobile Club of America #3943
Ann Arbor, MI
tgstoner@umich.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 10:55:32 -0700
From: "Chris Sparks (aka Mr. Ada)" <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Subject: Re: HP question

tgstoner@umich.edu wrote:

> And Chris, although we can't make the easy direct comparison, let's assume
> that your 325 gross horsepower 442 really has "only" about 220 net

Ouch!

> horsepower available at the rear wheels.  That's still pretty darn
> respectible.

Well I guess.  Since my car is 1500 lbs lighter (of course not with me in the
car! :-).

I had asked my mechanic if he would do the test where the rear wheels are
placed on these rollers to get performance specifics on my 442.  I told him
that
I was looking for HP specifics and he said this device wouldn't be accurate.
Probably he knew I would react if I saw that my car only had 220 HP!  I dunno.

- --
Chris Sparks
68 442 SC - Frosty
68 442 HT - Scarlet
68 442 HT - Saffron
82 DRB    - Dr. "B"
http://www.catalina-inter.net/mrada

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 15:12:05 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Fender Attachment

I'm having no luck at all getting at the backside of my front fenders in
order to install new scripts and emblems. I can't budge a couple of the
bolts holding the plastic inner fenders to the fender -- don't want to
twist too hard and break the plastic -- and the two bolts at the bottom
of the fender holding it to the rocker panel (is that what it is attached
to?) just spin without coming out. It sounds like they are on regular
nuts, but I can't access them to put a wrench on to hold them. The fender
bottoms were repaired years ago, so it is possible that any welded-on
nuts might have disappeared.

Any suggestions?

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 13:25:23 -0500
From: David L Wyatt <WYATT_DAVID_L@lilly.com>
Subject: C Heads was Re: HP question

>I don't know about this since I have "C" heads and they seemed to be usedon
>non-auto, non-W300 442s.

Back in '74 I went to a junkyard and pulled a set of C heads off of a 69 442
with auto transmission and air conditioning.  The car belonged to the owner of
the yard and was all original.  It looked good, but I never figured out why he
parted it out.  I still have the heads.

Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 14:22:47 -0400
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: Fender Attachment

I'm having no luck at all getting at the backside of my front fenders in
order to install new scripts and emblems. I can't budge a couple of the
bolts holding the plastic inner fenders to the fender -- don't want to
twist too hard and break the plastic -- and the two bolts at the bottom
of the fender holding it to the rocker panel (is that what it is attached
to?) just spin without coming out. It sounds like they are on regular
nuts, but I can't access them to put a wrench on to hold them. The fender
bottoms were repaired years ago, so it is possible that any welded-on
nuts might have disappeared.

Any suggestions?

Greg Beaulieu
__________________

Greg,

Typically the two bottom fender bolts thread into the dreaded clip nuts
that fit over a flange on the bottom of the cowl.  The factory style clip
nuts are actually two piece - the "clip" and the "nut" (DOH!).  The nut
part is usually spot welded to the clip, or even worse, snaps into a
depression in the clip.  When the nuts and bolts are new and unrusted, they
thread together easily and, of course, on the assembly line one is
tightening the bolt, so the nut is held even more firmly in the depression
in the clip.  Naturally, once rust sets in, attempts to loosen the bolts
simply result in the nut coming loose from the clip and spinning on its
own.  There are a couple of other failure modes, primarily involving
rusting of the clip, but they all have the same result:  you have a tight,
rusted, inaccessable fastener.

Usually you can get them loose enough before they snap to allow you to
slide the bottom of the fender out (the factory fenders actually have open
ended slots, not holes, at the bottom, though I don't know how yours were
repaired).  Failing that, you'll need a pneumatic cutoff tool or a Dremmel
and a cutoff wheel to surgically remove the heads.

There is an alternate design clip nut that I prefer where the "nut" portion
is actually formed into the clip and threaded, resulting in a monolithic
design.  I usually replace all my clip nuts with these to prevent such
occurrences in the future.

The inner fender bolts are a similar problem, though here, as you
suspected, the plastic usually fails before the nut breaks from the clip.
I suspect you weren't planning to remove the entire fender (inner and outer
together), though if you do, I've been able to put an open ended wrench on
the nut from the backside (along with a liberal coat of WD-40) and gotten
the bolts out.  Failing that, or assuming you really don't want to pull the
fender, use the cutoff tool here as well and get new clipnuts.

Sorry, but brute force has been the only solution to work for me.  I should
note, as I disassemble my 70 for a patchup and paint job, that one
advantage to rust holes on the bottoms of the front fenders is that access
to rusted clip nuts is _not_ a problem.   ;-)

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 14:28:38 EDT
From: <Dons5043@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [Toro] Tony Moore's resto

Sparky,

Thank you  so much for putting the snaps of my little project on the web.

This means a great deal and I'm very pleased to see my work is available for
all to see. There have been many hours put in so far, and of course many to go
before this is fit for the street.

I will one day learn how to get a web site up and running so that all can see
how it's coming along in the future.

For the purists I know the motor is the wrong colour, but getting Olds green
for the period here in England is impossible. The green I can get is the most
unpleasant colour I have ever seen. The colours you see are engine paints that
were already here in my workshop so they were used.

The project should be on the road in the spring if all goes well.

Tony Moore.
'79 Toro'
'56 88
London, England.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 11:34:17 -0700
From: Greg Rollin <supercars@transport.com>
Subject: Re: HP question

Joseph Gambaccini wrote:

> ok.  now, i knew about the autom. cam and manual cam in these cars,
> etc.  i have a question about the t-400's:  what were the actual
> differences between the t-400's used in the 442's and the "other"
> oldses???  now, i've read the w-30 had a different torque convertor.
> actually, even the 70 sx had a special convertor (i remember this in the
> original road&track article).
>
> i guess i'm seeking info so that when i finally get my t-400 rebuilt and
> rid it of it's "slip and slam into 2nd, tire-chirpin, u-joint breakin'
> routine", i'll request these things to my transmission guy so i won't
> get just a standard rebuild, unless there were no differences originally
> anyway.
>

Joseph,
The 4-4-2 TH400's differed internally from the full size models in several
areas.  The 4-4-2's valve bodies were calibrated differently to provide higher
WOT shift points as well as a firmer shift.  The direct clutch assembly
contained different amounts of  steel clutch plates and composition discs
depending on application.  The OW trans used in the W-30 used a different
plate/disc setup all together.  Torque converters differed between models as
well.  With different stall speeds to allow an acceptable idle in gear with the
bumpier cams used in the 4-4-2's vs the full size models milder cams.


Greg Rollin
Supercars Unlimited (Where Cutlass/4-4-2 is ALL we do!) 503-244-8249
http://www.supercarsunlimited.com
E-mail: supercars@transport.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 14:43:03 EDT
From: <KS7RACING@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Olds model Stuff

JM / Listmembers,

What I've always been looking for is a kit to convert one of those
JoHan/AMT(old) kits into a Cutlass Supreme.  The rear 1/4's, interior and
decklid are what I'd need to recreate a copy of my '70 C/S SX, although I'd
also like to find out some more info about the '68 as well.

Thanks, and Take Care!
Ken Snyder
Kansas City, Kansas

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 14:43:39 -0400
From: "Proietto, Fernando [Ontario]" <Fernando.Proietto@ec.gc.ca>
Subject: RE: HP question

If a roller dyno wouldn't be accurate, not sure what else could be used to
read horse power. I think that they can be very accurate. Do the test you
may be surprised, in a good way. In the worst case possible, you're a little
lower than you expected but so what, gives you something to look forward to
when rebuilding that engine again.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Chris Sparks (aka Mr. Ada) [SMTP:mrada@catalina-inter.net]
> Sent:	Wednesday, August 12, 1998 1:56 PM
> To:	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject:	Re: HP question
>
> tgstoner@umich.edu wrote:
>
> I had asked my mechanic if he would do the test where the rear wheels are
> placed on these rollers to get performance specifics on my 442.  I told
> him
> that
> I was looking for HP specifics and he said this device wouldn't be
> accurate.
> Probably he knew I would react if I saw that my car only had 220 HP!  I
> dunno.
>
> --
> Chris Sparks
> 68 442 SC - Frosty
> 68 442 HT - Scarlet
> 68 442 HT - Saffron
> 82 DRB    - Dr. "B"
> http://www.catalina-inter.net/mrada
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 14:46:55 -0400
From: "Proietto, Fernando [Ontario]" <Fernando.Proietto@ec.gc.ca>
Subject: RE: Fender Attachment

Been there Greg, didn't accomplish a thing. The best thing is to use lots
and lots of penetrating oil. WD-30, whatever. Another way is to completely
remove the fender and get to them from the underside, which is almost
impossible with the fend on the car.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Greg Beaulieu [SMTP:ab348@chebucto.ns.ca]
> Sent:	Wednesday, August 12, 1998 2:12 PM
> To:	Oldsmobile
> Subject:	Fender Attachment
>
>
> I'm having no luck at all getting at the backside of my front fenders in
> order to install new scripts and emblems. I can't budge a couple of the
> bolts holding the plastic inner fenders to the fender -- don't want to
> twist too hard and break the plastic -- and the two bolts at the bottom
> of the fender holding it to the rocker panel (is that what it is attached
> to?) just spin without coming out. It sounds like they are on regular
> nuts, but I can't access them to put a wrench on to hold them. The fender
> bottoms were repaired years ago, so it is possible that any welded-on
> nuts might have disappeared.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 14:46:06 -0400
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: Olds model Stuff

What I've always been looking for is a kit to convert one of those
JoHan/AMT(old) kits into a Cutlass Supreme.  The rear 1/4's, interior and
decklid are what I'd need to recreate a copy of my '70 C/S SX, although I'd
also like to find out some more info about the '68 as well.

Thanks, and Take Care!
Ken Snyder
___________

Ken,

I don't know if a Supreme HT conversion kit exists, but perhaps you could
use the convertible conversion discussed for the quarters and get a Monte
Carlo kit for the roof.

As an aside, my wife recently chastised me for having plastic model parts
cars as well as full size ones!

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 14:58:08 EDT
From: <KWhite5590@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Trans fluid leak

> leaking trans fluid...on a steep incline like a driveway
which direction are you facing, up the incline or down?Sounds like you seals
are leaking.


KWhite5590@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 15:03:06 EDT
From: <KS7RACING@aol.com>
Subject: Distributor Indexing, (Was Re: Yet more timing chain help)

robertan@cfw.com asked:

<I've heard of a thing called indexing the dist- how does one adjust this?>

From what I remember, it involves relocating the tab that keeps the
distributor cap in one place.  What I think it takes to accomplish it is
cutting a hole in the side of a distributor cap, under the #1 terminal.  The
cap is marked with the location of the inside terminal (on the outside) and
the rotor is marked with the location of the rotor tip below it's location on
the rotor's side, so you can see it inside the hole of the cap.

You start the engine and connect a timing light on #1 plug and shine it on the
distributor.  This will tell you exactly where the plug is fired in relation
to the cap.  From there, you can fill and relocate the cut in the side of the
distributor's base if it's really off.  I remember hearing of this in a stock
car racing magazine and they said it also pays to be careful where you buy
your distributor caps, since they also can be mis-indexed.

Is it worth it?  I don't know, but if you always buy your caps from the same
make and place, they should be accurate to each other.  If you did this and
did find that the cap wasn't indexed properly, you could either fix the
distributor or replace it.  We here at the race team are going to be real
careful about who and where we buy our caps and make a fixture to check them
this winter, and index our distributors exactly alike so there won't be any
variance in timing.

Maybe someone else has a slant on this.  I'm sure no expert at much of
anything, and I always look forward to learning as much as I can from the fine
folks on this list.

Hope this helps, and Take Care!
Ken Snyder
Kansas City, Kansas

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 14:45:13 -0400
From: "Bob Neumann" <unitron-rneumann@ic.net>
Subject: engine ID

I have a 455 block from a 1970 built in November, 1969 which has the numbers
396021  and F on it.  It doesn't fit the description of the ID which was
discussed here.  Are there other numbers on a block?

Bob Neumann

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 15:13:39 -0400
From: Joseph Gambaccini <jgambaccini@ci.richmond.va.us>
Subject: Re: HP question

thanks greg!!! i really appreciate it.  the tranny came from a 77 olds
and was installed in my 442 around 1980 (legend has it the original
owner beat this car up).  when i get the transmission rebuilt, i think
it might be a good idea to change the convertor to one that is "a step
up" on the stall (maybe 1800-2000) because i'm sure the t-convertor in
the transmission now is just a stock unit.  i don't mind getting 11-12
mpg instead of 13.


Greg Rollin wrote:
>
> Joseph Gambaccini wrote:
>
> > ok.  now, i knew about the autom. cam and manual cam in these cars,
> > etc.  i have a question about the t-400's:  what were the actual
> > differences between the t-400's used in the 442's and the "other"
> > oldses???  now, i've read the w-30 had a different torque convertor.
> > actually, even the 70 sx had a special convertor (i remember this in the
> > original road&track article).
> >
> > i guess i'm seeking info so that when i finally get my t-400 rebuilt and
> > rid it of it's "slip and slam into 2nd, tire-chirpin, u-joint breakin'
> > routine", i'll request these things to my transmission guy so i won't
> > get just a standard rebuild, unless there were no differences originally
> > anyway.
> >
>
> Joseph,
> The 4-4-2 TH400's differed internally from the full size models in several
> areas.  The 4-4-2's valve bodies were calibrated differently to provide 
higher
> WOT shift points as well as a firmer shift.  The direct clutch assembly
> contained different amounts of  steel clutch plates and composition discs
> depending on application.  The OW trans used in the W-30 used a different
> plate/disc setup all together.  Torque converters differed between models as
> well.  With different stall speeds to allow an acceptable idle in gear with
the > bumpier cams used in the 4-4-2's vs the full size models milder cams. > >
Greg Rollin > Supercars Unlimited (Where Cutlass/4-4-2 is ALL we do!)
503-244-8249 > http://www.supercarsunlimited.com > E-mail:
supercars@transport.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 12:15:21 -0700
From: Greg Rollin <supercars@transport.com>
Subject: Re: Changing Camshaft (was: HP question)

tgstoner@umich.edu wrote:

> On Wed, 12 Aug 1998 "Chris Sparks (aka Mr. Ada)" <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
>  wrote:
> > If I were to rebuild my automatic and put in a
> > less mild camshaft, would I have problems?
>
> *******************
> Hopefully someone else will give Chris the answer on just how radical a
> camshaft he could substitute into the stock engine in his automatic
> transmission'68 442 without causing drivability or reliability problems.
> Although I don't have any experience with swapping cams, I know that lots
> of other people on this list do.  Time to share that knowledge and
> experience.
>
> Tom Stoner
> Oldsmobile Club of America #3943
> Ann Arbor, MI
> tgstoner@umich.edu


It comes down to a matter of what you want to tolerate.  The longer the
duration of the cam, the rougher idle is (Oldsmobiles respond best with longer
duration).  With an automatic this will require more of a compromise than with
a manual.  If you wish to retain the stock torque converter, you will need to
have a higher idle speed in neutral in order to get an acceptable idle in
gear.  This will of course cause a lurch when going from park/neutral to
forward/reverse.  If the 68 4-4-2 has air cond. this will compound the problem
(with A/C on at idle).  A solution is a higher stall converter.  The compromise
here being a "mushier" feel at low speeds and higher transmission operating
temperatures.
I have duplicated the 69 W-32 setup and found the in gear idle to be rougher
than what I personally like to tolerate for a daily driver.  Again, it all
comes down to what you are willing to tolerate and the actual use of the
car.

Greg Rollin
Supercars Unlimited (Where Cutlass/4-4-2 is ALL we do!) 503-244-8249
http://www.supercarsunlimited.com
E-mail: supercars@transport.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 12:27:11 PDT
From: "Robert Lavey" <rjlavey@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Trans fluid leak

>My Delta seems to be leaking trans fluid (unless something else is red)
when
>the car is on a steep incline like a driveway. When the car is level,
there is
>no leak. Put it up on ramps and everything seems tight with no leak.
Anyone
>have anything like this happen to them?
>Bruce
>75 Delta 88 conv.

I've had the yoke seal on the tail housing (TH400) leak when my car was
parked pointed _up_ a hill.  The seal had worn a grove in the yoke, so
installing a new seal didn't solve the problem; a new yoke did solve the
problem.

Was your car parked uphill or downhill?

Bob


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 15:28:27 EDT
From: <COUPEKING@aol.com>
Subject: Vacation

Unsubscribe

Coupeking@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 15:40:25 EDT
From: <DYeager535@aol.com>
Subject: Re: HP question

In a message dated 98-08-12 13:37:07 EDT, you write:

<<  In fact, I'd be surprised if they were bigger than 20
 or 30 horsepower.  If 20 or 30 horsepower would run those transmissions
 through their normal operating speeds for testing, I just can't believe
 that even that much power would be lost to the device in normal operation.
 What do you think? >>

     I think that it depends once again on where the "60 hp lost" figure was
measured. At the rear wheels, pushing a 3800 pound plus car, I can see more
loss than when the transmission is out of the vehicle (or were they tested
under load?) However, I seem to recall that the 400 takes 15 more hp to turn
than a 350. THAT figure I could believe. I seem to recall the 400 was more
around 45hp lost....  Dorian

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 15:46:33 -0400
From: Steve Ochs <Steve_Ochs@compuserve.com>
Subject: 442 heads

Message text written by Angel
>VIN: 1g3gk4796gp392942 (anybody can decipher the whole vin???)
Carb: 17086009
Driver's side ex- manifold: (front)*4/D (meaning the 4 is over the D)
                                    (rear)22503618
Pass side: Couldn't see.....:)<

Definitely a 1986 or 1987 442 carburetor.  The 307 Vin 9 uses a 17086009
for 1986,87.  The Vin Y uses a 17086008 carb.

1 = USA  G = GM  3 = Oldsmobile  G = Cutlass  K = Cutlass Salon  47 = 2 Dr.
Notchback Coupe
9 = 307 V8 HO  6 = Check Digit  G = 1986  P = Pontiac Assembly  392942 =
Serial No.


Steve Ochs aka N8TYS- Mfg. Engineer - GM Powertrain - Parma, Ohio
Transmission Division (4T60/65-E & 4L60-E) - Steve_Ochs@compuserve.com
The statements and opinions expressed here are NOT an official
statement of General Motors or the GM Powertrain Division

'96 DCM Impala SS (Naisso #1365)  '87 Olds Cutlass 442 (OCA #028505)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 15:47:00 -0400
From: Steve Ochs <Steve_Ochs@compuserve.com>
Subject: Rochester

Message text written by Bob Barry
>Not necessarily; the last few years Rochester got lazy, and used the same
carb with an identical number, unadjusted for years. I believe the number
was 17086553 or something like that. I can check this tonight.<

Actually, the 1985 and older with 5A heads have a 3-point adjustment and a
different part number than the '85 and newer with 7A heads (2 point
adjustment).  Even the 307 Y and the 307 9 had a different part number with
different jets, float setting, adn metering rods


Steve Ochs aka N8TYS- Mfg. Engineer - GM Powertrain - Parma, Ohio
Transmission Division (4T60/65-E & 4L60-E) - Steve_Ochs@compuserve.com
The statements and opinions expressed here are NOT an official
statement of General Motors or the GM Powertrain Division

'96 DCM Impala SS (Naisso #1365)  '87 Olds Cutlass 442 (OCA #028505)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 16:02:42 -0400
From: Steve Ochs <Steve_Ochs@compuserve.com>
Subject: HO 307 HP

Message text written by Thomas Martin
>I have always read the 307 HO was 180 hp, 10 more than the 76 350.
The HO 305 (L69) Sloblock was 170.  The GN was 200.  <

The 307 HO was 180 HP up to 1985.  In 1986 with the 7A heads it was reduced
to 170 HP.

The HO 305 (L69) was 180 hp, but only approx 220 lb-ft torque as opposed to
the 307 9 and Y having 240-245 lb-ft of torque.

I know my 442 would smoke my friends Monte Carlo SS off the line, but he
would get me above 40.  The Chevy breathes better but doesn't have the low
end grunt.


Steve Ochs aka N8TYS- Mfg. Engineer - GM Powertrain - Parma, Ohio
Transmission Division (4T60/65-E & 4L60-E) - Steve_Ochs@compuserve.com
The statements and opinions expressed here are NOT an official
statement of General Motors or the GM Powertrain Division

'96 DCM Impala SS (Naisso #1365)  '87 Olds Cutlass 442 (OCA #028505)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 13:31:44 +0000
From: Bob Blanchard <bob149@efortress.com>
Subject: Re: Trans fluid leak

At 01:29 PM 8/12/98 -0400, you wrote:
>My Delta seems to be leaking trans fluid (unless something else is red) when
>the car is on a steep incline like a driveway. When the car is level,
there is
>no leak. Put it up on ramps and everything seems tight with no leak. Anyone
>have anything like this happen to them?

It could be the rear tailshaft seal or a scratched slip yoke.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 16:33:48 EDT
From: <KS7RACING@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Olds model Stuff & Parts Cars

Joe,

You too?  Seriously, my wife doesn't complain about any of the room either
real cars or model cars take up around here.  The real car stuff's either in
the basement or the shed or the garage, and the model car stuff (and model
plane & train & building stuff) is all in the unfinished upstairs, with all of
her books (she reads around 3 - 4 at the same time, a little in each one in
turn).  And it doesn't hurt that there's some RX-7 parts sitting around here,
too -- for her car (that's the SCCA car for now).

Take Care,
Ken Snyder

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 15:47:58 -0500
From: David L Wyatt <WYATT_DAVID_L@lilly.com>
Subject: Re: Trans fluid leak

Have you replaced the tail shaft bushing?  The yoke will wear it down with age
and can cause new seals to leak around the yoke in spite of the otherwise good
appearance of the yoke surface.  When this happens the leak is usually around
the top half of the seal and is most noticeable when the car is parked
up-hill.  These bushings are in all tail shafts of all our Oldsmobiles, plus
the lesser makes.

Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 16:02:32 -0500
From: "craig g broussard" <ABROUSSARD@prodigy.net>
Subject: Don't bid on 62 F-85

If you guys do not mind do not out bid me on the 62 F-85 model in box on
e-bay.
I'm 62cutlass. Thanks

Adam Broussard
1962 Olds F-85 Cutlass Convertible

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 17:23:38 EDT
From: <Cnvrt67@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Don't bid on 62 F-85

i just put in a bid for $100 ;)

hope ya get it.......

Brent
1967 Cutlass Convertible
http://members.aol.com/Cnvrt67/index.html (updated with parts 3 sale page)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 12:03:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Stefan Gadecki <sgadecki@yahoo.com>
Subject: fender patch panels

I'm getting my 1970 Cutlass 'S' repainted pretty soon.  I've been
looking for a set of fenders (mine are rusted out in the comon spot),
but reproductions are not to be found, NOS is way too expensive, and
any used ones that I could get have had damage in the same area.  I've
decided to go with patch panels.  Where have any of you gotten patch
panels, and what were the results?  I think I saw some in Year One for
about $85 for the pair.  Either that or does anyone have a set of rust
free fenders that you'd like to get rid of for a reasonable price?
Also, what have your experiences been with por-15?  I'm thinking of
coating the insides of the repairs with it.  Any input would be
GREATLY appreciated.

TIA
Stefan
sgadecki@yahoo.com
1970 Cutlass 'S'Holiday Coupe



_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 17:58:14 -0500
From: "Ed Binnix" <comid@jellico.com>
Subject: bit the bullet

Well, I've gone and done it. The '75 Cutlass is retired for the season. It
will no longer be a daily driver (ever). Someone damaged my rear trunk lid
today and that was the last straw. It is in my shop for a long term
extensive restoration. Oh it won't be restored to original. It's a 75! Who
cares about the originality of it. Oh go ahead and flame me you 73-77 fans.
I love them too. But they lack some things and have too much of others.
Namely WEIGHT! It's gonna get fiberglass fenders and hood (available on the
aftermarket) as well as fiberglass bumpers (I'm making the molds from my
perfect yet heavy steel pieces). Since I'm making molds, I may sell some '75
fiberglass bumpers to recoup some of my expense in the making of the molds.

Beginning next week, disassembly begins! I now enter the world of the
might-as-wells. If I don't return in two years, send in a search party. I'll
leave a trail of Visa charges. Maybe I'll create a faux H/O . . . .

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 17:58:14 -0500
From: "Ed Binnix" <comid@jellico.com>
Subject: bit the bullet

Well, I've gone and done it. The '75 Cutlass is retired for the season. It
will no longer be a daily driver (ever). Someone damaged my rear trunk lid
today and that was the last straw. It is in my shop for a long term
extensive restoration. Oh it won't be restored to original. It's a 75! Who
cares about the originality of it. Oh go ahead and flame me you 73-77 fans.
I love them too. But they lack some things and have too much of others.
Namely WEIGHT! It's gonna get fiberglass fenders and hood (available on the
aftermarket) as well as fiberglass bumpers (I'm making the molds from my
perfect yet heavy steel pieces). Since I'm making molds, I may sell some '75
fiberglass bumpers to recoup some of my expense in the making of the molds.

Beginning next week, disassembly begins! I now enter the world of the
might-as-wells. If I don't return in two years, send in a search party. I'll
leave a trail of Visa charges. Maybe I'll create a faux H/O . . . .

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 17:22:38 -0400
From: "Gregory Zimmerman" <zimmermangm@email.msn.com>
Subject: timing advance: ported vacuum at WOT?

What does ported vacuum do at different engine speeds?  Manifold
vacuum is highest at idle, lowest at W.O.T.  Ported is nothing at
idle, high during part throttle.  What about W.O.T.?

I'm asking this because I'm trying to set my distributor advances.  I
have the initial at 15, the mechanical is about 15, for a total of
30degrees at revs.  I want 36, but it's such a pain to adjust the
Mallory unit, I'll wait on it.

With the vacuum canister set low (screw four turns out), total at revs
is 45.  I don't know if that goes away at W.O.T. or not.

The car is running low on power now, so I need to find out what's
wrong with my timing.
It was faster when I had around 55 degrees total with vacuum hooked
up, but it pinged under part throttle highway acceleration.

thanks,
greg

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 17:24:25 -0500
From: ShawnE@austintx.net (Shawn Eldredge)
Subject: Re: Olds model Stuff & Parts Cars

Joe and Ken you guys are lucky.
MY wife said "either the car, parts, toys, etc go or I go" and she was not
kidding. I found this out when she moved out while I was at work today. YA
know if it were anyone else that might be funny. I still have  alll the
stuff!!!!! :-)
SHAWN
- -----Original Message-----
From: KS7RACING@aol.com <KS7RACING@aol.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 3:35 PM
Subject: Re: Olds model Stuff & Parts Cars


>Joe,
>
>You too?  Seriously, my wife doesn't complain about any of the room either
>real cars or model cars take up around here.  The real car stuff's either
in
>the basement or the shed or the garage, and the model car stuff (and model
>plane & train & building stuff) is all in the unfinished upstairs, with all
of
>her books (she reads around 3 - 4 at the same time, a little in each one in
>turn).  And it doesn't hurt that there's some RX-7 parts sitting around
here,
>too -- for her car (that's the SCCA car for now).
>
>Take Care,
>Ken Snyder

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 15:43:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: JM <super442@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Olds model Stuff & Parts Cars

- ---Shawn Eldredge <ShawnE@austintx.net> wrote:

> MY wife said "either the car, parts, toys, etc go or I go" and she
was not
> kidding. I found this out when she moved out while I was at work
today.


- ----Sorry she left :(, I miss my ex too!!!But ,wouldn't trade anything
for Pat---can work on a car with the BEST of us .Keep your chin up!!!
             John
==
mailto:super442@yahoo.com           ICQ # 16956740
1985 Cutlass-----T-Tops--307 H.O./3.73--http://members.tripod.com/~SuperOlds/
1984 Cutlass-Moonroof--307 http://members.tripod.com/~SuperOlds/PatsCar.html
1982 Cutlass Cruiser Wagon(g-body)--soon to be 403!



_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 17:51:06 -0500
From: "Lou J. Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: Your flamed!

Ed Binnex
Have a 75 cut sup 2dr w/landau. Daily driver. Just repainted entire left
side do to dings and chips. Took it to work, they cut grass and threw rocks
on the fresh (2 days) paint, and guess what, three new chips. Taking it out
of service, buying S10 for daily trans. Can't fight it anymore. Still like
it, but your right about the weight, 350 engine w/q-jet and 350 tranny.
Takes forever to reach cruising speed, would make an great boat anchor for
the Titanic. Still with only 53000 orig. miles I love it, attractive car.
Save the front bumper after your done, mine has slight dent on right side.
Lou Biggs lbiggs@intertek.net
1975 (above)
1967 442
+ assorted other iron
PS to group, sorry for posting, did not have Ed's email address, would not
pull up.
Lou

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 17:49:59 -0500
From: Shang <shang@wans.net>
Subject: Hotchkis control arms

Just received my Hotchkis control arms - all I can say is, nice! MUCH
thicker than I expected, you'd have to really work to make these things
flex.


Stephen Hoover
Dallas, Texas
'70 Supreme

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 17:05:53 -0600
From: Eric <big_olds@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: fender patch panels

I am assuming you mean front fenders?

I am looking at a set of rear-quarters for almost $400 Canadian for the
set!!

Stefan Gadecki wrote:
> I've
> decided to go with patch panels.  Where have any of you gotten patch
> panels, and what were the results?  I think I saw some in Year One for
> about $85 for the pair.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 17:08:11 -0600
From: Eric <big_olds@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: fender patch panels {OOPS!!!}

Fenders, OK, missed that!!  Just was a bit shocked when I saw the $85
price tag, canm I say OOPS (Optimized Oldsmobile Power Supply)

Some days....

Eric
http://www.dlcwest.com/~jed/

Stefan Gadecki wrote:
>
> I'm getting my 1970 Cutlass 'S' repainted pretty soon.  I've been
> looking for a set of fenders (mine are rusted out in the comon spot),

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 19:37:17 -0400
From: Kevin Hoopingarner <khooping@bright.net>
Subject: Looking for '70-72 442 Convt.

All,

Posted this a month or so ago w/o much luck.

Looking for a '70 - 72 442 Convertible.  OAI a must.  Not particular
about the rest.  Looking for a nice driver. Would like to find a car in
the midwest but will travel.  Email or call 419-859-3768.

mailto:khooping@bright.net

TIA

Kevin Hoopingarner
'70 Olds 442 W-30
Findlay OH.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 19:53:37 EDT
From: <GraphixRUs@aol.com>
Subject: '66

 Is there anyone on this list that  has a '66 Cutlass conv.?
 I finally found one. It needs a lot of TLC but it is a start. Really about
the first thing I need is a black dash pad. I would really like to have the
whole dash. Gauges, wiring etc. Does anyone have an extra one?
Roger Utter

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 20:04:29 -0400
From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@nbn.net>
Subject: Re: Watch

Onebil2mny@aol.com wrote:
>
> I an searching for a small bit of Oldsmobilia.  It is a watch that was shaped
> like a steering wheel, I believe it had a silver face, and a burgandy Olds
> Rocket in the middle.  When I was a lot younger, I wound his to death, oops!
> Now I would like to replace it if I can find one, or two.   So if you know of
> one of theese watches, or have one, let me know via private E-Mail.  Price 
and
> condition too please.
>
> Thanks!
> Bill K
> Onebil2mny@Aol.Com

Bill,

I think I've found one the watches you are in search of.  Go here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=25164875

Hope this is what you're looking for.

Paul
- --
Paul Hartlieb
Myerstown, PA
mailto:plh@nbn.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 20:06:38 EDT
From: <Blakepie@aol.com>
Subject: 1990 starting problem (fuel pump related)

HELP!! We thought we replaced the fuel pump with another bad fuel pump!  But,
after two new fuel pumps we realize something else must be wrong.  There is a
small tan/yellowish box by the fuel pump and we are getting power all the way
to the fuel pump.  Any ideas what that little box is?  No one seems to be able
to tell us!  Is it possible it's an inertia switch like Ford has?  Could this
be the problem?

We hooked up the new pump through the trunk and turned the switch.  Nothing
happened, but you could hear the pump run after it was tapped with a
screwdriver!  Why would it only work after tapping?

Thanks so much for ANY ideas!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 17:13:47 -0700
From: "Corey Day" <dayc@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: C Heads was Re: HP question

These heads also appeared on the 68 H/O with AC

Corey Day
dayc@ix.netcom.com
www.netcom.com/~dayc/

- -----Original Message-----
From: David L Wyatt <WYATT_DAVID_L@lilly.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 11:28 AM
Subject: C Heads was Re: HP question


>>I don't know about this since I have "C" heads and they seemed to be
usedon
>>non-auto, non-W300 442s.
>
>Back in '74 I went to a junkyard and pulled a set of C heads off of a 69
442
>with auto transmission and air conditioning.  The car belonged to the owner
of
>the yard and was all original.  It looked good, but I never figured out why
he
>parted it out.  I still have the heads.
>
>Dave Wyatt
>70  4-4-2
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 21:13:51 EDT
From: <BigEJ@aol.com>
Subject: OLDS NEON

Hi Everyone:

I hope everyone has been enjoying their Oldmobiles this summer as much as we
have.  So many things to do... etc, etc.
One thing that has been taking more time lately is the neon Oldsmobile signs
we started making last winter.  After seeing Ch*vy and F*rd neon signs
everywhere, we thought that Oldsmobile should have some neon representation.
So we started with a 442 sign.  Now we have two variations one for the 442
people and one for the 88 folks.  Presently the signs are either a red neon
442 outlined in blue, or a blue 88 with a white rocket behind it.  Both signs
are 18" long and about 11" high (the 88 is slightly larger).  The signs are
mounted on black plexiglas and look very sharp.  I'm selling these for $375.00
each plus shipping (about $35.00 insured depending how far from Maine you
are).

If anyone on the list is interested please e-mail me directly (bigej@aol.com)
because I'm still on the digest mode.

Thanks very much,

Elephant Engine Ernie
AKA Ernie Johnson

67 442
50 88

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 22:30:50 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: UNBOUNCE: engine ID

No longer on the list; respond to unitron-rneumann@ic.net if you can assist.

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:	"Bob Neumann" <unitron-rneumann@ic.net>
Subject: engine ID

I have a 455 block from a 1970 built in November, 1969 which has the numbers
396021  and F on it.  It doesn't fit the description of the ID which was
discussed here.  Are there other numbers on a block?

Bob Neumann

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 22:35:43 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Olds model Stuff

I'm sure this is old news, but I was in the local Toys-R-Us today and
they had another variation of the Ertl '69 4-4-2 (sure wish they would do
something other than umpteen different '69s!). These were silver with red
hood stripes (a sticker on the box announced this as an "exclusive
die-cast color", whatever that means), plus they had one which was gold
with black stripes. $29.95 Canadian, seemed not a bad price but since I
already have the '69 H/O I passed. But now I'm thinking maybe I should
pick one up. Any ideas whether the gold or silver is particularly hard to
come by? Since they had about 6 silvers and only one gold I'd be tempted
to get the gold one even though the silver/red looks better. Thoughts?

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 21:48:36 EDT
From: <SOMMERVLLE@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Olds model Stuff

I'm looking for a ERTL 69 hurst model and can't find one. If anyone knows of
one let me know. Thanks Chris

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 22:11:27 -0400
From: Jeffrey lane <bladernr@roava.net>
Subject: Re: UNBOUNCE: Toro Graveyard

I think I am gonna cry...  that is one of the saddest things I ahve seen
in a long time...  Where is this horrible place???  and how hard will it
be to either convince the owners that they can sell the parts on the
internet to people like me, or at least how hard is it for me to get
parts from these cars...

and as I said, where is this yard??

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
>
Grave Yard!
>
> All Olds Lovers (Toro, Cutlass, 442, HO...et al)
>
> The following are links to a RARE boneyard containing a plethora of parts
> for Gen 1 Toro lovers!
>
> This lot has been laying fallow for YEARS! It's just waiting for the right
> person to keep it from the CRUSHER, which is literally a few days/months
> away! What a shame!
>
> I, myself, even with a with a consortium of two other Toro/Olds folk are
> trying to save these cars, but cannot work it out! The purchase of the lot
> is CHEAP!!!!  The problem is, I (we, us) cannot afford to transport or
> find storage for these many cars (anywhere!).
>
> I guess this is the last gasp for these Toronado souls before they become
> recycled as beer cans, patio furniture or even worse....Toyota's! ):
>
> Please... PLEASE! ...don't let this collection become crusher/smelter
> fodder bound!
>

- --
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> 67 Toronado  ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>

Jeffrey Lane, EMT-ST	ICQ#12362327	http://www.roava.net/~bladernr
			bladernr@roava.net 	EMTBoy9@aol.com


Sr. Sergeant, Equipment Officer	|	EMT-ST/Driver
Fort Lewis Rescue Squad, Inc.		|	United Ambulance Service
Salem, Virginia				|	Roanoke, Virginia

"Knowledge is power.  But power corrupts, and corruption is a sin, so if
you seek knowledge, you will burn in hell. . ."

- -------------------------------Carpe
Noctum------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 21:58:39 -0400
From: "Peter Berusch" <pber710840@email.msn.com>
Subject: Speedo gearing

I just changed my rear axle ratio from 2:53 to 3:08 in my '71 Cutlass.  Now
the speedo reads high by the difference of about 23%.  Does anybody know
what color pinion I will need to correct the speedo?  Trans is TH350.
Thanks in advance.  Peter.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 22:19:11 -0400
From: Jeffrey lane <bladernr@roava.net>
Subject: Re: Olds model Stuff

dont know about that...  but I picked up one of the Testors/Italerie
models of a 1:25 scale 70 442.  I opened it (not a shrinkwrapped box,
this is the carboard HSO box) and the model itself looked to be of
really good detail and quality...

comes with custom parts, so you can make it stock, or their dea of
custom (looks like a low rider, personally, but the box pic isnt too
bad) and it also comes with a set of metal wheels...

SOMMERVLLE@aol.com wrote:
>
> I'm looking for a ERTL 69 hurst model and can't find one. If anyone knows of
> one let me know. Thanks Chris

- --
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> 67 Toronado  ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>

Jeffrey Lane, EMT-ST	ICQ#12362327	http://www.roava.net/~bladernr
			bladernr@roava.net 	EMTBoy9@aol.com


Sr. Sergeant, Equipment Officer	|	EMT-ST/Driver
Fort Lewis Rescue Squad, Inc.		|	United Ambulance Service
Salem, Virginia				|	Roanoke, Virginia

"Knowledge is power.  But power corrupts, and corruption is a sin, so if
you seek knowledge, you will burn in hell. . ."

- -------------------------------Carpe
Noctum------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 22:23:17 EDT
From: <RICH6986@aol.com>
Subject: catologs

does anyone know where on line i can go to get like a parts catolog for just
cutlass' in general or oldsmobile i know they stopped making one that was from
the dealerships the hade every part you could think of but it was like $300
any but any place besides jcwhitney and summit i already have those TIA
Rich

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 19:36:07 PDT
From: "Brent Pinkstaff" <fear_of_tomorrow@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Speedo gearing

Peter,

I believe you need the purple one.

Brent Pinkstaff
'70 Cutlass S (Mr. Hankey, the Cutlass poo)

>I just changed my rear axle ratio from 2:53 to 3:08 in my '71 Cutlass.
Now
>the speedo reads high by the difference of about 23%.  Does anybody
know
>what color pinion I will need to correct the speedo?  Trans is TH350.
>Thanks in advance.  Peter.


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 21:57:23 -0700
From: Greg Pruett <grpruett@vt.edu>
Subject: Diesel 350 conversion:  May I pick a brain or two?

I hope to begin converting a diesel 350 to gas soon, I was wondering if
someone could help:

Basically I was wondering if Mondello's engine building book is a
must-have for this project.  For now I'm hoping to just convert it and
drive for awhile.  I don't plan to do any real overhaul work or mods
exept replacing gaskets and a lumpy cam.  The diesel was running until
it died of a bad fuel pump, so all should be well as far as the bottom
end goes.

I know that 403 heads, a SB carb and intake manifold, a fuel pump and a
gas engine camshaft need to be installed, but I doubt it's just that
simple.  What other work has to be done?  Could someone tell me what's
neccesary or is it so involved that I should just spring for the book?
I'm working on a tight budget so right now I'd rather spend the
twenty-odd bucks on other things.  But if I really need the book to do
it right I'll get it.

BTW the plan is to drop the engine in my 80 Calais.  It should make the
little car pretty snappy, even with the lame 2.29 gears.

Thanks in advance.

Greg Pruett
72 Vista Cruiser
67 Cutlass Supreme
80 Cutalss Calais

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #1423
*********************************
