Please respond to oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
To:	oldsmobile-digest@chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #1419


oldsmobile-digest       Monday, August 10 1998       Volume 01 : Number 1419



RE: Engine ID
73 Hurst / Olds 4-Sale
Re: Taxable HP? was: HP question
RE: Radiator Problem, Please Help.
Re: HP question
MSD Distributor
RE: Engine ID
RE: MSD Distributor
Re: Radiator Problem, Please Help.
RE: Radiator Problem, Please Help.
RE: HP question
UNBOUNCE: '70 W-30
Horsepower (was: "Taxable HP" and apparently "HP question" before that)
UNBOUNCE: Hello
UNBOUNCE: ISO 455 for NSW, Australia
ADMIN: Re: o-lot -of olds parts
RE: HP question
Re: MSD Distributor
Re: MSD Distributor
Convertible Water Leak
RE: HP question
Re: exhaust system
Re: o-lot -of olds parts
Re: web page updated
Need assist with Electrical
Re: Need assist with Electrical
Re: Convertible Water Leak
AM/FM Wonderbar '68
another neat thing on eBay
shop manual / trunk floor ?
RE: web page updated
Parts List
Vin Y, 9 manifolds, etc.
Re: Convertible Water Leak
service manuals
Re: mileage problem
Re: o-lot -of olds parts
Re: o-lot -of olds parts
Vin Y, 9 manifolds, etc.
Question
Re: o-lot -of olds parts
Olds in Levi's Poster
Re: web page updated
RE: web page updated
Re: Parts 4 Sale (assortment of 53-77)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 14:19:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Edwin R Burger <erb22@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu>
Subject: RE: Engine ID

The sticker is mising.  What can I determine from the serial number?

Ed

On Mon, 10 Aug 1998, Smetana, Christopher wrote:

> >
> >Where is the ID on a 455?  I found some numbers on the front of the
> >block, but none that matched up with those in the year one catalog.
>
> Do you mean the serial number or the two-letter engine id code?  The
> two-letter id code is a sticker (99.9% of the time missing) that goes
> around the oil filler tube.  The serial number is on a machined pad on
> the driver side of the block, towards the front, right below the
> cylinder head.
>
> Chris Smetana
> Terre Haute, IN
> work: csmetana@dowagro.com
> home: chris@abcs.com   it finally works again
>
> 1969 W-31 currently under the knife for tranny work
> 1969 4-4-2 parts car
> plus others
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 14:20:38 -0500
From: "Dan Schein" <dschein@awiweb.com>
Subject: 73 Hurst / Olds 4-Sale

It seems the time has come to part with my 73 Hurst / Olds. We are the 2nd
owner and have owned it since 1980. Its located in Reading PA and titled as
a 'Classic' with the PA DOT. The original selling dealer is only 15 minutes
from our house so the history of this car is easy to trace. We have 66K
original miles on it. This is one of the black & gold models and other than
a chrome air cleaner is stock (stock air cleaner also comes along with it).
If you would like more information or are interested in it, please contact
me directly at schein@juno.com or dschein@awiweb.com. (My reading of the
digest is less than timely).

- -Dan

PS: I have an original sales brochures and 2 magazines w/73 HO's in that id
like to sell...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 14:25:10 -0400
From: Joseph Gambaccini <jgambaccini@ci.richmond.va.us>
Subject: Re: Taxable HP? was: HP question

i'm trying to keep myself from having a nervous breakdown after reading
this one...yeah, you read wrong.


> This queston involves several issues, I think. One is early vs. later HP. 
This
> was covered very briefly about a month and a half ago. Something about why a
> 1976 455 is rated 190 vs. a 1965's 310+ HP.
> On that note I realized something lately, (had been wanting to get back to
> this thread...) ALL 1965 BB's (I think) are rated as having 65 hp "taxable". 
I
> could be wrong about that, as I forget where I saw it. However if early hp is
> total and later is taxable...... well 190 beats the hell out of 65!
>
> Or did I read into that wrong.
>
> It is getting late again, time to send embarrasingly personal messages
> public...
> Or something.
>
> SOM
> &KA

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:28:46 -0500
From: "Johnson, Sam" <SAJOHNSON@usds.com>
Subject: RE: Radiator Problem, Please Help.

Everything is new and has been checked. The only thing that is not new is
the radiator.  I think I am going to get me an electric fan to go  along
with my regular fan.
======================
Sam E. Johnson, JR.
>  <mailto:Cutlass403@ameritech.net> Cutlass403@ameritech.net
>1971 Cutlass S 455
>Westside! Chitown IL
14 Wins 11 Losses
======================


	-----Original Message-----
	From:	Ed Binnix [SMTP:comid@jellico.com]
	Sent:	Monday, August 10, 1998 1:28 PM
	To:	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
	Subject:	Re: Radiator Problem, Please Help.

	Start with the cheapest things first. Radiator cap (likely suspect)
and
	thermostat. Remember, sometimes engine heat INCREASES for the first
few
	minutes after an engine is turned off. Why? No circulation of
coolant. Soon,
	however, lack of combustion causes cooling (duh). The immediate
increase in
	temperature "can" cause enough of a pressure increase for the cap to
vent.
	If the spring on the cap is even slightly weak, it will happen
easily.

	Head gasket problems are "usually" most obvious when the car is
running.
	While is "could" be a part of this problem. It's one of the least
likely
	areas to suspect. I have corrected this spewing problem on umpteen
cars and
	have never found it caused by a head gasket EXCEPT when there were
other
	symptoms too. The easiest way to rule out the head gasket, if you're
really
	worried about it, is to go to a shop and have your coolant tested.
This is a
	chemical test that detect large amounts of exhaust gasses in your
coolant.

	Be aware that many people spit out the words "head gasket" very
quickly when
	there is a cooling system problem. Also, be aware that ethyl glycol
is a
	relatively POOR coolant. Water, plain and simple, is better able to
transfer
	heat. Ethyl glycol won't freeze however. (I know, it will freeze at
some
	temperature, but we don't live on Pluto.) During the warm months you
can
	safely reduce your coolant ratio to 25% (or even less) without fear
of
	excess corrosion. Your car will run slightly cooler that way.
	-----Original Message-----
	From: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
	To: Comid <Comid>
	Date: Monday, August 10, 1998 10:41 AM
	Subject: RE: Radiator Problem, Please Help.


	>
	>Received: from halifax.chebucto.ns.ca [129.173.4.205] by
jellico.com with
	smtp
	> id AKCICOCE ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 10:40:46 -0500
	>Received: by halifax.chebucto.ns.ca id <33139-394>; Mon, 10 Aug
1998
	11:37:35 -0300
	>Received: from exchange.usds.com ([204.133.152.34]:4782 "EHLO
	nt4500.usds.com" ident: "TIMEDOUT") by halifax.chebucto.ns.ca with
ESMTP id
	<33242-344>; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 11:36:45 -0300
	>Received: by ustxhousu-sd-02.cexp.com with Internet Mail Service
	(5.0.1460.8)
	> id <QRFYRA34>; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 09:37:50 -0500
	>Message-ID:
	<F17C055D8ED9D011A98F00805FCC03530136A192@ustxhousu-sd-02.cexp.com>
	>From: "Johnson, Sam" <SAJOHNSON@usds.com>
	>To: "'oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca'" <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
	>Subject: RE: Radiator Problem, Please Help.
	>Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 09:37:48 -0500
	>X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8)
	>X-Orcpt: rfc822;"|/csuite/etc/majordomo/wrapper resend -l
oldsmobile -h
	chebucto.ns.ca oldsmobile-mml"
	>Sender: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
	>Precedence: bulk
	>Reply-To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
	>
	>Coy it sounds like we are just the same as far as setup and
problems.  I
	>have a rebuild engine too along with all new parts except for the
radiator.
	>======================
	>Sam E. Johnson, JR.
	>>  <mailto:Cutlass403@ameritech.net> Cutlass403@ameritech.net
	>>1971 Cutlass S 455
	>>Westside! Chitown IL
	>14 Wins 11 Losses
	>======================
	>
	>
	> -----Original Message-----
	> From: Cote, Jeffrey
	
>[SMTP:IMCEAEX-_O=MCCO_OU=MORGAN_CN=RECIPIENTS_CN=M947AIM@morganco.com]
	> Sent: Monday, August 10, 1998 10:05 AM
	> To: 'oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca'
	> Subject: RE: Radiator Problem, Please Help.
	>
	> I can't speak for Sam, but the engine just produces more heat
	> than I think it should. No overheating though. Just spilling at
	> shut down.
	>
	> Jeff Cote
	> 72 Supreme H/T
	>
	> > ----------
	> > From: Joseph
	>Gambaccini[SMTP:jgambaccini@ci.richmond.va.us]
	> > Reply To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
	> > Sent: Monday, August 10, 1998 8:58 AM
	> > To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
	> > Subject: Re: Radiator Problem, Please Help.
	> >
	> > i've heard of this also.  are you having any overheating
problems,
	>or
	> > just the squirting radiator jug???
	> >
	> >
	> >
	>

	

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 11:31:32 -0700 (MST)
From: NOVAMARK@webtv.net (MARK ERTHUM)
Subject: Re: HP question

Horse power readings change from gross to net in the early 70's. Gross I
believe being measured at the fly wheel. Net being at the rear wheels.
Big difference.
They did this to confuse the insurance company's. Somebody correct me if
I'm wrong. Don't know the exact dates when all this changed. Can't
remember everything.


Talk to you later,
Mark from Az.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:29:53 -0500
From: "Brett Wilson" <bwilson@dmotorworks.com>
Subject: MSD Distributor

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BDC462.F56332C0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


    List,
Does anyone have any complaints or compliments on the MSD Billet Olds =
distributor p#8566? My HEI Distributor was shot(about 1/4 of side to =
side play), and since I can handle the price now i will be looking into =
an aftermarket street/strip type distributor.  I really prefer the =
external coil type.=20
any help or comments are appreciated.
TIA
Brett Wilson
67 Cutlass Convertible
Want  a 67 Cutlass coupe,holiday coupe, post, (rolling chassis)

- ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BDC462.F56332C0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT=20
color=3D#000000>List,</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><FONT color=3D#000000>Does anyone =
have any=20
complaints or compliments on the MSD Billet Olds distributor p#8566? My =
HEI=20
Distributor was shot(about 1/4 of side to side play), and since I can =
handle the=20
price now i will be looking into an aftermarket street/strip type=20
distributor.&nbsp; I really prefer the external coil type. =
</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><FONT color=3D#000000>any help or =
comments are=20
appreciated.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><FONT =
color=3D#000000>TIA</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><FONT color=3D#000000>Brett=20
Wilson</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><FONT color=3D#000000>67 Cutlass=20
Convertible</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><FONT color=3D#000000>Want&nbsp; a =
67 Cutlass=20
coupe,holiday coupe, post, (rolling =
chassis)</FONT></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BDC462.F56332C0--

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:40:19 -0500
From: "Smetana, Christopher" <csmetana@dowagro.com>
Subject: RE: Engine ID

The first number should be a 3 for Olds, the second number should be an
8, meaning it's a 1968 block (unless of course the motor has been
swapped with a different year), the last six digits should match the
last six digits of the vin.  If they do then you probably have the
original engine (or more technically original block).  If not then you
do not have the original engine which is where the 2nd character comes
into play to help determine the year.  Granted of course cylinder heads
and other items can be switched from engine to engine.

Chris Smetana
Terre Haute, IN
work: csmetana@dowagro.com
home: chris@abcs.com   it finally works again

1969 W-31 currently under the knife for tranny work
1969 4-4-2 parts car
plus others

>----------
>From: 	Edwin R Burger[SMTP:erb22@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu]
>Sent: 	Monday, August 10, 1998 1:19 PM
>To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>Subject: 	RE: Engine ID
>
>The sticker is mising.  What can I determine from the serial number?
>
>Ed
>
>On Mon, 10 Aug 1998, Smetana, Christopher wrote:
>
>> >
>> >Where is the ID on a 455?  I found some numbers on the front of the
>> >block, but none that matched up with those in the year one catalog.
>>
>> Do you mean the serial number or the two-letter engine id code?  The
>> two-letter id code is a sticker (99.9% of the time missing) that goes
>> around the oil filler tube.  The serial number is on a machined pad on
>> the driver side of the block, towards the front, right below the
>> cylinder head.
>>
>> Chris Smetana
>> Terre Haute, IN
>> work: csmetana@dowagro.com
>> home: chris@abcs.com   it finally works again
>>
>> 1969 W-31 currently under the knife for tranny work
>> 1969 4-4-2 parts car
>> plus others
>>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:43:12 -0500
From: "Johnson, Sam" <SAJOHNSON@usds.com>
Subject: RE: MSD Distributor

I bought a new stock distributor and got the MSD Module to replace the
Module in the stock distributor. Also I am going to replace my Mallory
internal coil with MSD internal coil too. Man I tried it this weekend and it
works great. I suggest this then buying a new MSD distributor.  Buy a stock
one for cheap and change the guts for cheap too.
======================
Sam E. Johnson, JR.
>  <mailto:Cutlass403@ameritech.net> Cutlass403@ameritech.net
>1971 Cutlass S 455
>Westside! Chitown IL
14 Wins 11 Losses
======================


	-----Original Message-----
	From:	Brett Wilson [SMTP:bwilson@dmotorworks.com]
	Sent:	Monday, August 10, 1998 1:30 PM
	To:	oldsmobile
	Subject:	MSD Distributor

	 
	    List,
	Does anyone have any complaints or compliments on the MSD Billet
Olds distributor p#8566? My HEI Distributor was shot(about 1/4 of side to
side play), and since I can handle the price now i will be looking into an
aftermarket street/strip type distributor.  I really prefer the external
coil type.
	any help or comments are appreciated.
	TIA
	Brett Wilson
	67 Cutlass Convertible
	Want  a 67 Cutlass coupe,holiday coupe, post, (rolling chassis)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:42:55 -0500
From: David L Wyatt <WYATT_DAVID_L@lilly.com>
Subject: Re: Radiator Problem, Please Help.

>The easiest way to rule out the head gasket, if you're really
>worried about it, is to go to a shop and have your coolant tested. This is a
>chemical test that detect large amounts of exhaust gasses in your coolant.

Another way to check for a leaking head gasket is remove the cap after the car
has cooled enough to safely do so.  Then start the engine, refill the radiator
if needed, then watch for bubbles in the coolant while looking into the open
radiator.  If the head gasket is leaking you will soon see the bubbles well
before the engine gets too hot. It may even push some coolant out of the open
radiator, so be careful.  Also you can usually smell an "exhaust smell" in the
radiator when cold and the coolant will be discolored with an oily film.

A weak cap can cause the radiator to overflow so try that first as there is a
significant heat build up and coolant expansion when you shut the engine off.

Look for telltale white smoke at start up, usually seen when a internal leak
is very bad.

Is the cooling system running hot or is it just overflowing at shut down?

Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:47:03 -0500
From: David L Wyatt <WYATT_DAVID_L@lilly.com>
Subject: RE: Radiator Problem, Please Help.

One other thing,  can you see through the fins in the radiator?  I have seen
some packed with bugs and BS so tight that now air flows through.

Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:49:10 -0500
From: "Smetana, Christopher" <csmetana@dowagro.com>
Subject: RE: HP question

I thought net hp was measured with all the accessories turning.  And
isn't rear wheel horsepower measured on a chassis dyno?  Did they even
have chassis dyno's back then?

Chris Smetana
Terre Haute, IN
work: csmetana@dowagro.com
home: chris@abcs.com  it finally works again

1969 W-31 currently under the knife for tranny work
1969 4-4-2 parts car
plus others

>----------
>From: 	NOVAMARK@webtv.net[SMTP:NOVAMARK@webtv.net]
>Sent: 	Monday, August 10, 1998 1:31 PM
>To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>Subject: 	Re: HP question
>
>Horse power readings change from gross to net in the early 70's. Gross I
>believe being measured at the fly wheel. Net being at the rear wheels.
>Big difference.
>They did this to confuse the insurance company's. Somebody correct me if
>I'm wrong. Don't know the exact dates when all this changed. Can't
>remember everything.
>
>
>Talk to you later,
>Mark from Az.
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:06:24 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: UNBOUNCE: '70 W-30

Not on the list, but he's in the Netherlands so maybe we can h*lp out.
Reply to avsezh@worldonline.nl if you can assist.

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:	"avs bert en ron" <avsezh@worldonline.nl>
Subject: w 30 1970

Dear sir, madam,

My name is Bert Enjoem and i'm mailling from Holland. I own a olds W 30 =
from 1970. I check all the numbers of the vin and it seems to be a real =
W 30. But also 442 decals is on the car. Is this right?. I check all the =
things on the car that is not standard like the 12 bolt rear axle, the =
thicker sway bar, the 455 engine, the F code onde the engine ect. But =
something is bothering me, i read somewhere about the history about this =
W 30 and THE HEAD of the engine is also different of the standard. But =
the codes on the HEAD must not be 668. Does this mean that the engine is =
not original. Because i saw something like this numbers on the right =
side of the block. Also i want to know the complete history of this car =
because i want to KEEP IT FOREVER. Also i want to make the oai like the =
original. But the car had no original air cleaner housing. Can you help =
me to get a used or new one complete with base. The vin of W 30 begin =
with 344 is that right? This car came from california. What is the =
camshaft they used in this engine.

Two friends of mine also have olds. One has a Cutlass S 1971 with a =
rebuild engine 425 of a delta 88 of 66. Very fast. The other friend has =
442 with 455 rebuild. All of this three olds a very fast. Like they say =
: Horsepower sells engine, but torque wins races.=20

Thank you for your time and hear from you soon.
I will send some pictures of this beasty olds.
e-mail : ezhavs@worldonline.nl

- ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BDC44A.27B8FA20
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>Dear sir, =
madam,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>My name is Bert Enjoem =
and i'm=20
mailling from Holland. I own a olds W 30 from 1970. I check all the =
numbers of=20
the vin and it seems to be a real W 30. But also 442 decals is on the =
car. Is=20
this right?. I check all the things on the car that is not standard like =
the 12=20
bolt rear axle, the thicker sway bar, the 455 engine, the F code onde =
the engine=20
ect. But something is bothering me, i read somewhere about the history =
about=20
this W 30 and THE HEAD of the engine is also different of the standard. =
But the=20
codes on the HEAD must not be 668. Does this mean that the engine is not =

original. Because i saw something like this numbers on the right side of =
the=20
block. Also i want to know the complete history of this car because i =
want to=20
KEEP IT FOREVER. Also i want to make the oai like the original. But the =
car had=20
no original air cleaner housing. Can you help me to get a used or new =
one=20
complete with base. The vin of W 30 begin with 344 is that right? This =
car came=20
from california. What is the camshaft they used in this =
engine.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Two friends of mine also have olds. One =
has a=20
Cutlass S 1971 with a rebuild engine 425 of a delta 88 of 66. Very fast. =
The=20
other friend has 442 with 455 rebuild. All of this three olds a very =
fast. Like=20
they say : Horsepower sells engine, but torque wins races. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thank you for your time and hear from =
you=20
soon.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I will send some pictures of this =
beasty=20
olds.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>e-mail :=20
ezhavs@worldonline.nl</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BDC44A.27B8FA20--

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 15:10:55 -0400
From: tgstoner@umich.edu
Subject: Horsepower (was: "Taxable HP" and apparently "HP question" before 
that)

I haven't been following this thread closely at all, but having been a 442
driver from 1968 to 1975 I still remember a little of what happened to the
horsepower figures back then and thought that should give me license for
throwing my own two cents worth in.  My apology if someone else has already
posted this same information.

As I recall, in 1970 and prior years the horsepower figures quoted were
"gross horsepower".  That is to say, a figure which was attained on an
engine dynamometer under favorable test conditions.  By 1971, the insurance
industry was putting pressure on products and claims which were seen as
contributing to the "horsepower wars", undoubtedly because they at least
thought such things were cutting into their inexcusably high profit
margins.  So the manufacturers began using a "net or SAE horsepower" figure
in 1971.  This supposedly was a more accurate reflection of the horsepower
actually delivered to the rear wheels of a car (or front wheels if a
Toronado).  The decrease was due to losses to those "little extras" not
affecting the earlier gross figures, like transmissions, differentials,
alternators, and water pumps.  Compare those differences in figures to your
own paychecks.  You might gross $15.00 per hour, but I'll bet that you
don't net (take home) $15.00 for each hour worked.  You too have to pay for
those "little extras".

Now complicating any comparison of apples (gross horsepower figures from
1970 and earlier) and oranges (net horsepower figures from 1971 and later),
most engines also suffered a drop in compression ratio beginning in 1971.
Therefore there really are no good direct comparisons between the 370
horsepower rating of a 1970 W-30 455 and the 300 horsepower rating of a
1972 W-30 455.  I can attest however, that my own 300 horsepower '72 W-30
was considerably quicker than the 325 horsepower '68 442 that it replaced.
Much more so than its 3.42 axle ratio over the '68's 3.08 would explain.
There is no way though, that my 1972 engine, or any '73 455 would have
matched the horsepower created by a high compression '70 W-30.

As for taxable horsepower, all I can say is that I've read at least a
couple explanations of where those figures come from and what they're
supposed to mean.  And I still don't understand.  I haven't seen those
figures listed anywhere in the past 20 or 30 years either, so maybe that
whole specification is now obsolete.

Tom Stoner
Oldsmobile Club of America #3943
Ann Arbor, MI
tgstoner@umich.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:08:57 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: UNBOUNCE: Hello

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:	"Mike Jones" <mike@gleep.com>
Subject: Hello

Hello, my name is Mike Jones, and I own a '78 Delta 88.  I used to be on
this list a few months ago, but had to uns*bscribe so I could have some
time to do homework for school.  I am back.

The '78 Delta that I own now has 97k on the original 350.  Topped with the
stock, unrebuilt Q-jet, the mixture flows through an edelbrock performer
intake, into the stock engine assembly.  Exiting the stock manifolds, all
the nasty hydrocarbons that the enviromentalists love to hate are filtered
through a monolith catalyst, and then are expelled through a 2.5" single
exhaust system, with a turbo muffler that loves to drone at 2000+ rpm.  The
interior itself, is complete with a sagging headliner, and carpet that is
pretty hashed out in 2 footwells.  It has been in a prior accident before,
the LF frame horn is not aligned correctly, but the u-ton of shims on said
side help keep it in check.  Car has a carmine interior, silver exterior,
with a vinyl top.  I added the optional rallye gage cluster that fits below
the speedometer on these B/C bodies, I must say I wish the car came with
them stock.

Well, I must go, I hope I hear from all of you soon.

Mike Jones

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:11:19 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: UNBOUNCE: ISO 455 for NSW, Australia

Not on the list, respond to ispy000@hotmail.com if you can assist. Wonder
what it costs to ship a big block to Australia?

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:	marrickville028-01 <marrickville028-01@nswfire.nsw.gov.au>
Subject: seeking 455 olds big block

wondering if anybody can help ( hope i'm in the right section)i am
seeking a 455 olds big block stock but with high comp heads say
10:25:1.one that is suitable for reconditioning.i am in sydney australia
but have a cousin in  L.A. so one from calif /L.A would be good.my
e-mail address is ispy000@hotmail.com.thanks i would greatly appreciate
any assisstance

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:13:16 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: ADMIN: Re: o-lot -of olds parts

C'mon guys, give us a break, take this to private email.

BTW, it would be helpful if you're selling parts to say something a little
more specific than "parts from the 50's thru '80s"... ;-)

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 14:23:40 -0500
From: David L Wyatt <WYATT_DAVID_L@lilly.com>
Subject: RE: HP question

>I thought net hp was measured with all the accessories turning.  And
>isn't rear wheel horsepower measured on a chassis dyno?  Did they even
>have chassis dyno's back then?

>Chris Smetana

Yes Chris, chassis dynos have been around for quite a while.  Why do you think
they call them dynos?  Because they used to measure dinosaurpower back in the
good old days before electronic everything.  We even had to wait on the tubes
in the car radios to warm up before listening to AM radio, thought Air
Conditioning was for rich people,
heaters were optional, manual transmissions used to be standard in almost
everything, while automatics were options, and many other crude technologies:)

Yes, net hp is supposed to include all of the accessories and rear wheel hp is
best measured on a chassis dyno.  The factories used to measure a bare engine
on a dyno for gross hp numbers before 1971.  After that it was net with all
the junk hanging on.  I believe this was also a way to fend off the insurance
industry which was killing car sales and us owners with high rates for high
performance cars.

Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2
$700/year full coverage in 1973
with $250 deductible collision
and $100 deductible for comprehensive
monthly payment book for premiums included

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 15:28:46 -0400
From: Todd Morris <toddmorr@us.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: MSD Distributor

Whats the matter with an external coil type?

>I really prefer the external coil type.
>any help or comments are appreciated.

Todd Morris
71 442

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 14:27:50 -0500
From: "Brett Wilson" <bwilson@dmotorworks.com>
Subject: Re: MSD Distributor

nothing, that's what i want........?!?


>Whats the matter with an external coil type?
>
>>I really prefer the external coil type.
>>any help or comments are appreciated.
>
>Todd Morris
>71 442

did I miss something?

Brett Wilson
67 Cutlass Conv.
looking for 67 non convertible rolling chassis or whole car if cheep enough.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 12:39:40 PDT
From: "flynt myrick" <f_myrick@hotmail.com>
Subject: Convertible Water Leak

List members,
 When it rains the interior of my 1969 442 convertible is getting wet.
The carpet where the back seat passenger's feet would be is getting wet
on the right and left sides.  I thought this problem was solved when I
had a now top and all new rubber weather stripping installed.  I can see
no visible water to make the carpet wet.
 How do I find the water leak?  Has any list member had this particular
problem before?  Any thoughts or suggestions?


Flynt Myrick
f_myrick@hotmail.com
http://www.hotmail.com


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 14:43:22 -0500
From: "Smetana, Christopher" <csmetana@dowagro.com>
Subject: RE: HP question

>
>Yes Chris, chassis dynos have been around for quite a while.  Why do you
>think
>they call them dynos?  Because they used to measure dinosaurpower back in the
>good old days before electronic everything.  We even had to wait on the tubes
>in the car radios to warm up before listening to AM radio, thought Air
>Conditioning was for rich people,
>heaters were optional, manual transmissions used to be standard in almost
>everything, while automatics were options, and many other crude
>technologies:)

All right smart guy   :-)    I know there are engine dyno's and chassis
dyno's.  Obviously an engine dyno you only see the engine on a stand
with some kind of gauges and switches to similate a dash board in a car
and a chassis dyno you drive your car up pop the hood and actually DRIVE
the car (it is tied down SECURELY so it doesn't actually go anywhere but
the drive wheel are on rollers)  So in this case, I'm wondering if
chassis dyno's where around back in the paleolithic era.  This is what
is meant by chassis dyno's.

crude technologies ... you mean people didn't have email, DSS, OBD II
and such 'back in the days of wealth and prosperity'   :),

I wonder what kind of power the Flintstonemobile put out on the chassis
dyno?

Chris (still chuckling) Smetana
Terre Haute, IN
work: csmetana@dowagro.com
home: chris@abcs.com   it finally works again
or carrier pigeon  go N by NW

1969 W-31 currently under the knife for tranny work
1969 4-4-2 parts car
plus others

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 12:40:03 -0700
From: Kerry Kroger <kerryk@MCI2000.com>
Subject: Re: exhaust system

rose muffler south 71 hwy grandview mo.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Kijowski, Stan <SKIJOWSKI@midland.com>
To: 'oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca' <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Monday, August 10, 1998 7:48 AM
Subject: exhaust system


>anyone know of a source in kansas city mo./ks  who can bend & weld 2 1/2"
16
>ga. stainless steel tube for my exhaust system?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:00:49 PDT
From: "Ryan D" <riviera72sss@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: o-lot -of olds parts

ok,hear.

60s starfire
60s jetster
60s f85
60s throw 80s cutlass.s.
70s throw 80s toronado's
70s throw 80s 98's
70s throw 88s
70s omega's
70s cust.crus

Is that better ; )       like i said the first time ,60s ,70s,and 80s




  My  -------   -------
            /  |
           /   |
          /     ------
         /            |
        /             |
       /        ------    DELTA 88
Ryan D Beck
           Riviera72sss@hotmail.com


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:00:15 -0700
From: Kerry Kroger <kerryk@MCI2000.com>
Subject: Re: web page updated

easy they already had a pattern for the 69 they used to make a model of it
in plastic and a hurst olds model the original diecast tooling was for the
69 H/O then the 442 was a natural johann used to make a 70 442 model but it
did not come with a w-30 hood or wing go figure...kk
- -----Original Message-----
From: Joseph Gambaccini <jgambaccini@ci.richmond.va.us>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Monday, August 10, 1998 7:54 AM
Subject: Re: web page updated


>i've wondered why the '69 w-30 (my girlfriend's favorite) was chosen.
>what was wrong with something like the '66 or '70 w-30???  who are the
>people making these choices/selections anyway???
>
>
>Etzel, Bobby wrote:
>>
>> Chris,
>>
>> This weekend I picked up a 1:18 1966 GTO made by Etral (sp ?)  at Target.
It
>> is black with red interior. $19.95 Nice, almost like the one I had in 66.
>> See it at  http://home1.gte.net/betzel/Gto2.gif
>> <http://home1.gte.net/betzel/Gto2.gif>
>>
>> For some Olds content: When will they make a 1970 W-30 442 ? I know they
>> have the 69, but I want a 70.
>>
>> Bobby
>>
>> 70 442 Escape back to the....Past
>>
>>         -----Original Message-----
>>
>>         snip
>>         The big thing I added was pictures of my GTO, sorry
>>         for seeming to start a Pontiac thread

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:37:57 -0400
From: "Ken Swick" <swickka@pa.net>
Subject: Need assist with Electrical

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0107_01BDC47D.3B03C1E0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Oh boy ... lost tail lights, marker lights, and brakes
The fuse was blown ... Checked in trunk and under dash
Looks like I cooked a ground wire at left rear and wires going=20
into the light switch itself ... can't tell about the ground at left
   tail light ... i might have done that two months ago.

Now .. could it be the lightswitch itself ... or do I have a more=20
interesting problem?=20

Two months ago ... I ran new wire to tail lights and left
front marker light. Everything worked fine until Sunday night.
Any ideas out there=20

Ken Swick
swickka@pa.net

- ------=_NextPart_000_0107_01BDC47D.3B03C1E0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Oh boy ... lost tail lights, marker =
lights, and=20
brakes</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>The fuse was blown ... Checked in trunk and under=20
dash</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Looks like I cooked a ground wire at left rear and =
wires going=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>into </FONT><FONT size=3D2>the light switch itself =
...=20
</FONT><FONT size=3D2>can't tell about the ground at left</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; tail light ... i might have done that =
two months=20
ago.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Now .. could it be the lightswitch itself ... or do =
I have a=20
more </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>interesting problem? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Two months ago ... I ran new wire to tail lights and =

left</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>front marker light. Everything worked fine until =
Sunday=20
night.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Any ideas out there&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Ken Swick<BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:swickka@pa.net">swickka@pa.net</A></FONT></DIV></BODY></HT=
ML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0107_01BDC47D.3B03C1E0--

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:26:54 -0700
From: Kerry Kroger <kerryk@MCI2000.com>
Subject: Re: Need assist with Electrical

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_00E9_01BDC462.8A335160
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

if the wires were cooked and the fuse then blew then the fuse was the =
wrong rating
if you burned wires then there was a short there the fuse should have =
blown to protect the wiring but it must have been bad anyway or it =
wouldnt have cooked off...kk
- -----Original Message-----
    From: Ken Swick <swickka@pa.net>
    To: oldsmobile bb <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
    Date: Monday, August 10, 1998 1:35 PM
    Subject: Need assist with Electrical
   =20
   =20
    Oh boy ... lost tail lights, marker lights, and brakes
    The fuse was blown ... Checked in trunk and under dash
    Looks like I cooked a ground wire at left rear and wires going=20
    into the light switch itself ... can't tell about the ground at left
       tail light ... i might have done that two months ago.
    =20
    Now .. could it be the lightswitch itself ... or do I have a more=20
    interesting problem?=20
    =20
    Two months ago ... I ran new wire to tail lights and left
    front marker light. Everything worked fine until Sunday night.
    Any ideas out there=20
    =20
    Ken Swick
    swickka@pa.net

- ------=_NextPart_000_00E9_01BDC462.8A335160
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 =
HTML//EN">
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>if the wires were cooked and the =
fuse then blew=20
then the fuse was the wrong rating</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT><FONT size=3D2>if you burned =
wires then=20
there was a short there the fuse should have blown to protect the wiring =
but it=20
must have been bad anyway or it wouldnt have cooked =
off...kk</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>-----Original =
Message-----</B><BR><B>From:=20
    </B>Ken Swick &lt;<A=20
    href=3D"mailto:swickka@pa.net">swickka@pa.net</A>&gt;<BR><B>To: =
</B>oldsmobile=20
    bb &lt;<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca">oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca</A>&g=
t;<BR><B>Date:=20
    </B>Monday, August 10, 1998 1:35 PM<BR><B>Subject: </B>Need assist =
with=20
    Electrical<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Oh boy ... lost tail lights, =
marker lights,=20
    and brakes</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2>The fuse was blown ... Checked in trunk and =
under=20
    dash</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Looks like I cooked a ground wire at left rear =
and wires=20
    going </FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2>into </FONT><FONT size=3D2>the light switch =
itself ...=20
    </FONT><FONT size=3D2>can't tell about the ground at =
left</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; tail light ... i might have done =
that two=20
    months ago.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Now .. could it be the lightswitch itself ... or =
do I have=20
    a more </FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2>interesting problem? </FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Two months ago ... I ran new wire to tail lights =
and=20
    left</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2>front marker light. Everything worked fine until =
Sunday=20
    night.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Any ideas out there&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Ken Swick<BR><A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:swickka@pa.net">swickka@pa.net</A></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOT=
E></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_00E9_01BDC462.8A335160--

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:01:55 -0500
From: David L Wyatt <WYATT_DAVID_L@lilly.com>
Subject: Re: Convertible Water Leak

Not sure about A-bodies, but I know the full size cars had this.  From inside
the trunk under the tack strip for the bottom of the top (I'M getting confused
already) there should be a plastic trough that fits under the tack strip.  It
is nothing more than a rain gutter.  On the big cars it will direct the rain
water to a drain in both quarters under the side windows.  If this has been
left out during a top replacement
( you have to remove it to access the tack strip if it is the non-removable
tack strip) you will get water everywhere from the bottom of the top.  I have
been closely involved with one of these on a full size GM, but did not find
one on a 63 Corvair Spyder.  On the 'vair it may have been lost by the body
shop, owner, or never existed.  I did think it was a very useful part in the
full size car.

Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:16:48 -0400
From: Jeffrey lane <bladernr@roava.net>
Subject: AM/FM Wonderbar '68

Just to be sure, I don't remember who told em about the AM/FM wonderbar
radio on eBay, but you said it would not fit my '67 Toronado.  Why is
this???  The radio is 6 3/8" from center to center, as is the AM in my
Toro.  If this radio will fit my dash, I need it.  So is everyone sure
that it wont fit?

The only reason I ask is because I am desperate for an AM/FM radio. So
help me out...
- --
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> 67 Toronado  ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>

Jeffrey Lane, EMT-ST	ICQ#12362327	http://www.roava.net/~bladernr
			bladernr@roava.net 	EMTBoy9@aol.com


Sr. Sergeant, Equipment Officer	|	EMT-ST/Driver
Fort Lewis Rescue Squad, Inc.		|	United Ambulance Service
Salem, Virginia				|	Roanoke, Virginia

"Knowledge is power.  But power corrupts, and corruption is a sin, so if
you seek knowledge, you will burn in hell. . ."

- -------------------------------Carpe
Noctum------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:28:20 -0400
From: Jeffrey lane <bladernr@roava.net>
Subject: another neat thing on eBay

I jsut found a toy 442 on eBay that comes complete with its own rocket
launcher.  From the Demolition man...  heh heh... I guess if they dont
get out of the way when they hear the 455, you can just blow them up...
- --
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> 67 Toronado  ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>

Jeffrey Lane, EMT-ST	ICQ#12362327	http://www.roava.net/~bladernr
			bladernr@roava.net 	EMTBoy9@aol.com


Sr. Sergeant, Equipment Officer	|	EMT-ST/Driver
Fort Lewis Rescue Squad, Inc.		|	United Ambulance Service
Salem, Virginia				|	Roanoke, Virginia

"Knowledge is power.  But power corrupts, and corruption is a sin, so if
you seek knowledge, you will burn in hell. . ."

- -------------------------------Carpe
Noctum------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:22:45 -0500 (CDT)
From: George <cutlass@one.camd.lsu.edu>
Subject: shop manual / trunk floor ?

hi list,

Chris Smetana from the list gave me the tip to get a shop manual for my
car soon, good idea, will keep me from asking more then 10 questions a
day...

Where is the best (cheapest) place to shop for a shop manual (assembly
manual and chassis service manual) for my 68 cutlass conv.?

I also defenitely need a trunk floor. I want to go for the cheapest I can
get regardless if it is original or not. For financial reasons I decided
to go for a "from the outside original looking car". (A 10 footer)
There are different kinds of floor sheets at the different catalogues and I
am a little concerned with comments in the calalogue which sound like:
"You may have to cut the corners of this pan to make it fit..." Not that I
could not do it but I am just looking for input. Anyone recently welded
one in that fits and is cheap? Any suggestions where to get a good deal?

This is it for today... if you are lucky, haha... ;-) thanks!!!
regards

George


- --------------------------------------------------------------
'68 Cuttlass S Conv.
http://estimator.camd.lsu.edu/georg/sparetime/olds.html
- --------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 15:29:01 -0600
From: "B. Sanders" <blaines@strata3d.com>
Subject: RE: web page updated

> easy they already had a pattern for the 69 they used to make a model of it
> in plastic and a hurst olds model the original diecast tooling was for the
> 69 H/O then the 442 was a natural johann used to make a 70 442
> model but it
> did not come with a w-30 hood or wing go figure...kk

I made my own OAI hood using sheet styrene, glue, and putty.  It wasn't very
easy, but it sure was an enjoyable challenge.  Some day I might get brave
and try to reproduce the rear wing from my '69 H/O kit to finish it off...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:26:54 -0400
From: James & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Subject: Parts List

To All

        I want to thank all the individuals that sent me back my list. I
appreciate it. Please no need for any more.

Jim Chermack

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:40:51 -0400
From: Steve Ochs <Steve_Ochs@compuserve.com>
Subject: Vin Y, 9 manifolds, etc.

Message text written by Dorian
>they will fit! My '86 307 had the Semi-tubular Stainless exhaust manifolds
on
it. They looked nothing like my original 403 manifolds, except the
crossover
pipe and outlet. Was the overall shape of the manifold changed in the mid
80's
to this style across the board? If it was, then that STYLE won't fit,
therefore making ID of interchangeable exhaust manifolds easy.   Dorian<



Here is the deal on heads, exhaust manifolds, & camshafts.  This
information comes from the 1982-1990 Oldsmobile B,C,D,E,G,X parts manual -
1998 version.  I don't write the manual - just relaying the information (in
other words - don't flame the messenger).

Cylinder Head
82-84 Y,9  22511238
85    9    Same (22511238)
85-90 Y    22530557
86-87 9    Same (22530557)

Camshaft
82-84 Y  22521997
83-85 9  22519934
85-90 Y  22527149
86-87 9  22531804

Exhaust Manifold
83-90 Y  22503678  LH Cast Iron
83-87 9  Same (22503678) LH Cast Iron
85-87 Y  22530287  LH Tubular Welded Stainless
83-90 Y  22521449  RH Cast Iron
83-87 9  Same (22521449) RH Cast Iron
85-87 Y  22530286  RH Tubular Welded Stainless

So, in summary.  The 82-85 Vin 9 and 82-84 Vin Y had 5A heads with regular
cam, the 85-90 Vin Y and the 86-87 Vin 9 had 7A heads with roller cam.
Notice the Vin Y changed to roller cam 1 year before Vin 9 which is causing
some confusion.

Also, the tubular stainless exhaust manifolds were used on some 85-90 Vin Y
applications but there is no set pattern.  The stainless manifolds require
gasket, the cast iron do not.  Finally, the GM Goodwrench remanufactured
engine assembly numbers are different for tubular stainless vs. cast iron
manifolds.  I do not know what is specifically different, the book just
says 1 is to be used with tubular, the other with cast iron.

Hopefully this helps clarify these nagging questions that we have been
trying to answer for a while.

Steve Ochs aka N8TYS- Mfg. Engineer - GM Powertrain - Parma, Ohio
Transmission Division (4T60/65-E & 4L60-E) - Steve_Ochs@compuserve.com
The statements and opinions expressed here are NOT an official
statement of General Motors or the GM Powertrain Division

'96 DCM Impala SS (Naisso #1365)  '87 Olds Cutlass 442 (OCA #028505)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 18:50:47 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Convertible Water Leak

Yeah, the A-bodies had this trough too. I've got one sitting in my
basement from the '72 we parted out (for Bob Lavey, I haven't forgotten
you!). I would suspect water coming in from the area in the rear quarter
where these things drain. Check those drain holes... the ones in my
Skylark had little rubber tubes that were blocked with debris.

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:59:22 -0400
From: Steve Ochs <Steve_Ochs@compuserve.com>
Subject: service manuals

Message text written by Brian
>If you don't have any, do you know where I can get them?  Do you think a
DEALER would have any of these 15 year old books?
<

I just purchased a set of manuals for my 1987 442 through Helms.  They
handle all of GMs manuals now.  They might have 1984 manuals.  They are a
little more expensive now, I paid $40 in 1987 and now they are $75..

Steve Ochs aka N8TYS- Mfg. Engineer - GM Powertrain - Parma, Ohio
Transmission Division (4T60/65-E & 4L60-E) - Steve_Ochs@compuserve.com
The statements and opinions expressed here are NOT an official
statement of General Motors or the GM Powertrain Division

'96 DCM Impala SS (Naisso #1365)  '87 Olds Cutlass 442 (OCA #028505)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 15:33:32 PDT
From: "Chris Rivier" <crivier@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: mileage problem

Hi guys,

I totally agree.  If the dealer sold the car as having under 10K miles.
That is fraud. 100K+ miles vs. 10K definitely would drop down the price.
Find the proof and get a lawyer, especially if you paid way too much for
the car.  Without written proof it's your word against his.
================================================================
KENSOLDS9@aol.com wrote:
> in december of 96
It's been a long time...
> i bought a car from a car dealer on the west coast,
Where did the dealer claim this car came from?  Was is a West Coast car?
> i'am on the east coast. the dealer said the car had under 10,000 miles
on it, so i bought the car and had it shiped to me. NOW , all the paper
work showed under 10,000 miles. SO, last weekend i went to an olds show
and met aguy who knew the car

You should've played Powerball the other week.  What do you suppose the
chances of that are?  Is he from the West Coast?  Was it originally an
East Coast car?
> , and he told me the in fact had over 100,000 on it and he could prove
it.
I'd ask him to prove it.  How can he be so sure it's the same car?
> so my question is , have any laws been broken?
Probably.  Federal truth in mileage law states that anything over 10
years old doesnt' require mileage to be disclosed.  But if he lied about
the mileage, then he misrepresented the vehicle.  That's fraud.  But
you'll need solit proof.
> and what can i do about it?
Wish I knew.
> please give me some advice.
Get the proof and contact a lawyer.
Paul
===================================================================
Good Luck,

Chris Rivier
'66 Delta 88...The BEAST
'88 Festiva...ZIPPY 165K+@40mpg

"We rebuilt the engine and the odometer too..."  from Sunday Comix.


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Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 15:38:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: JM <super442@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: o-lot -of olds parts

- ---RICH6986@aol.com wrote:
>
> i need its for an 82 cutlass supreme the chrome trim that goes
across the
> entire bottom of the car its about 6 inches wide but dont know
exactly what
> its called i need it    TIA  Rich
> 81,82,85 cutlass supreme
>
I've prolly got your chrome~off Pat's car~she won't miss it.
         John

==
mailto:super442@yahoo.com           ICQ # 16956740
1985 Cutlass-----T-Tops--307 H.O./3.73--http://members.tripod.com/~SuperOlds/
1984 Cutlass-Moonroof--307 http://members.tripod.com/~SuperOlds/PatsCar.html
1982 Cutlass Cruiser Wagon(g-body)--soon to be 403!



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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 18:52:54 -0400
From: "Peter Berusch" <pber710840@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: o-lot -of olds parts

How about a right hand door for a 67 Delta 88.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 18:57:57 -0400
From: "Angel Castrodad" <angleki@prtc.net>
Subject: Vin Y, 9 manifolds, etc.

Well, here I go adding to the hysteria.....

 >The 82-85 Vin 9 and 82-84 Vin Y had 5A heads with regular
>cam, the 85-90 Vin Y and the 86-87 Vin 9 had 7A heads with roller cam.
>Notice the Vin Y changed to roller cam 1 year before Vin 9 which is causing
>some confusion.

I have a 1986 442 with a VIN 9 307 BUT with 5A heads and corresponding
accesories. My question is: Could it be possible that GM changed the VIN 9
motor from hydraulic to roller cam and 7A heads in the middle of the model
year? Can my car be an 85 1/2 model (mostly reffered to the next model year.
Example: 85 1/2= 1986)???  Previous owner said the only thing changed was
the tranny and I believe him unless he swapped the WHOLE engine and
accesorie asembly into the car??

Anyone want to throw two cents this-a way??

TIA

Angel Castrodad
angleki@prtc.net
'86 442-----> 307 H.O. (5A), TH-350 (not my fault,previous owner), 3.73
rear......Ooooh, T-tops !!!!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 18:56:11 -0400
From: "Mike Trinkley" <mtrinkley@ee.net>
Subject: Question

I have a 1977 Olds 442 - I purchased brand new.  I looked all over the
www.442.com web site - I found the number of 1977 Cutlass S's that were
made.  Is there anywhere/way I can find out exactly how many 442's were made
that year?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:01:42 PDT
From: "Ryan D" <riviera72sss@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: o-lot -of olds parts

>i had to sale thows to my frend (sorry)ill see if i can find one
thow.

>How about a right hand door for a 67 Delta 88.
>
>
>
>


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 20:21:26 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Olds in Levi's Poster

Was at a department store today and walking thru their jeans section I
noticed a large Levi's poster which had a '69 Cutlass S...  a guy wearing
Levi's is using a pay phone with the Cutlass parked alongside.

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

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Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:07:10 -0700
From: Kerry Kroger <kerryk@MCI2000.com>
Subject: Re: web page updated

cool if you do send me a pic of the car also send a pic of the one with the
oai hood sounds cool
- -----Original Message-----
From: B. Sanders <blaines@strata3d.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Monday, August 10, 1998 2:26 PM
Subject: RE: web page updated


>
>> easy they already had a pattern for the 69 they used to make a model of
it
>> in plastic and a hurst olds model the original diecast tooling was for
the
>> 69 H/O then the 442 was a natural johann used to make a 70 442
>> model but it
>> did not come with a w-30 hood or wing go figure...kk
>
>I made my own OAI hood using sheet styrene, glue, and putty.  It wasn't
very
>easy, but it sure was an enjoyable challenge.  Some day I might get brave
>and try to reproduce the rear wing from my '69 H/O kit to finish it off...
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 15:13:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: JM <super442@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: web page updated

- ---"B. Sanders" <blaines@strata3d.com> wrote:
 69 H/O then the 442 was a natural johann used to make a 70 442 model
but it did not come with a w-30 hood or wing go figure...kk
>
> I made my own OAI hood using sheet styrene, glue, and putty.  It
wasn't very
> easy, but it sure was an enjoyable challenge.  Some day I might get
brave
> and try to reproduce the rear wing from my '69 H/O kit to finish it
off...


- ----They do make several conversion kits...To make the '69 models into
'68's...they also make a W-30 hood---even a hardtop to convertible
conversion. They also have all the "decals" to make these cars into
the '70 Pace Car & '72 H/O.Any GOOD hobby shop should have access to
these parts.If anybody is interested in this stuff and can't find it,I
can get it from a local place here.Just hit me direct.

Also,sort of related...found a RED 69 442...the ERTL size(1/24
?)...haven't seen a RED one before~anybody interested?
          John
==
mailto:super442@yahoo.com           ICQ # 16956740
1985 Cutlass-----T-Tops--307 H.O./3.73--http://members.tripod.com/~SuperOlds/
1984 Cutlass-Moonroof--307 http://members.tripod.com/~SuperOlds/PatsCar.html
1982 Cutlass Cruiser Wagon(g-body)--soon to be 403!



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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 19:13:17 -0400
From: "Peter Berusch" <pber710840@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Parts 4 Sale (assortment of 53-77)

Tell me about the console mounted tach.  What does it look like, does it
work?  Peter.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Cnvrt67@aol.com <Cnvrt67@aol.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Monday, August 10, 1998 12:18 AM
Subject: Parts 4 Sale (assortment of 53-77)


>For those of you in the Cleveland area......me and my dad will be at the
>Carnation Mall show sellin parts. Pretty sure its the last weekend of this
>month. Just letting you know. So here we go.............
>
>Set of 5 14x6 SS1 wheels. Incudes 4 caps. Good condition.......$300
>
>1953:
>Hood and trunk world ornaments. Extremely good condition and hard to find
>pieces...... $200
>
>1959:
>88 Tail lite assemblies. Some pits. Driver quality....... $50 for the pair
>
>1964:
>Consle Mounted Tach.........$100
>
>1965:
>6 Piece convertible stainless steel trim set including the 1/4
trim......$250
>Trunklid........$100
>Consle Mounted Tach......$100
>
>1966:
>442 Grill and header panel..........$150
>Consle Mounted Tach (early 66's)......$100
>
>1967:
>442 Grill and header panel..........$150
>Pair of Cutlass front wheel well opening moldings (2 pair)........$75 a
pair
>
>1976&77:
>Cutlass Broham front and rear seats. Black and 6-way power seats.....$100
>
>None of this stuff includes shipping. Depends on how big the item is wether
>you pay shipping or not. I will post another list with more 68-72 stuff
>probebly sometime Wednesday.
>
>Brent
>1967 Cutlass Convertible
>http://members.aol.com/Cnvrt67/index.html

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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #1419
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