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Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #1452


oldsmobile-digest       Friday, August 28 1998       Volume 01 : Number 1452



header for '70 442 (455/auto)
Re: Mission Fast Street Car Impossible
Re: Jetting Carb
Re: Exhaust ?'s
Re: Mission Fast Street Car Impossible
RE: Mission Fast Street Car Impossible
Gbody computer
Re: 72 Gas Cap & antique plates
Re: Mission Fast Street Car Impossible
Re: Mission Fast Street Car Impossible
67 non conv frame..take it away....please !!!
Re: header for '70 442 (455/auto)
Exhaust Leak
Head Gasket Replacement
Misrepresentation
Re: Mission Fast Street Car Impossible
Re: header for '70 442 (455/auto)
RE: Twin turbo 455 Olds
Re: Battery? Alternator? Exhaust Leak?
OOPS! Was: What's wrong with V-6 3.8?
Re: SS1's For Sale
Re: Transmission Chattering
Re: header for '70 442 (455/auto)
Re: 72 H/O paint questions
aluminum heads
Exhaust Leak
Re: A couple questions for the folks in Olds land
Re: What is wrong with V6 3.8?
Re: 72 H/O paint questions
Re: Conv. Top Bow??
Re: Starter, multitester was: starter problems, please h*lp
Re: Valve Overlap
Re: OOPS! Was: What's wrong with V-6 3.8?
car cacoon ?
Rocket Talk?  Anyone coming?
Re: Rocket Talk?  Anyone coming?
Re:  87 olds
Re: UPDATE aluminum heads!
425 lifter dia. ques.
Re: Valve Overlap
Re:   Exhaust Leak?
72 CUTLASS BODY RIVETS
Re: obsessed with my 67
Re: UPDATE aluminum heads!
New odometer for 72??
Re: UPDATE aluminum heads!
Rallye 350 ID
Re: New odometer for 72??
Re: Gbody computer
list
RE: UPDATE aluminum heads!
Richard Petty Hot Wheel Set & Ertle '69 H/O
Re:  87 olds
Re: Re: Mission Fast Street Car Impossible
RE: 425 lifter dia. ques.
link to a blower page
RE: Hold-down minutiae - Again!?!?
Body Side Moulding

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:34:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Edwin R Burger <erb22@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu>
Subject: header for '70 442 (455/auto)

Hello!

I have the engine in my 442 out, so I figure it's a good time to put
headers in.  I have a '70 -- 455, auto, ps/pb, a/c.  What headers will fit
best?  I called up PAW, and they said thier economy headers would fit
best.  Anyone have experience putting headers into a similar car?

Thanks,
Ed

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:40:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Edwin R Burger <erb22@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu>
Subject: Re: Mission Fast Street Car Impossible

Does paxton make an intake to put the supercharger onto the 455, or are
you having it custom made?  What kinda scratch does that all run ya?

Ed

> Why go threw all that headache of turbo charges yuck. Bolt on a paxton and be
> on your way. No exhaust system nightmare. make a few brackets and have a
> pullie made. Im going todo it over the winter on a 74 cutlass w/455. i have
> the paxton just have to make the brackets.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:49:27 -0500
From: Chad Schwartz <ChadS@pcsco.com>
Subject: Re: Jetting Carb

>My choke plate is actually not hooked up to anything at all so it
doesnt
>'set' at all. It stays open all the time. When I say I have to pump the

>accelerator repeatedly, I am doing it with the engine cranking. The
engine
 >cranks until it gets fuel and then starts readily. It just seems that
I
>have to pump it alot in order to get gas to the carb. Almost like the
gas is
>draining back down alot. On the other hand, setting the choke would
pull
>more fuel and reduce the need to pump accelerator pump.

I have the choke totally removed from my H/O.  I have to pump it a lot
before I turn the key and pump some while cranking.  When it does start
up I have to keep pressing the pedal to keep it running until warmed up.
Sounds to me that what you are experiencing is normal for having no
choke and engine cold.

Chad Schwartz
chads@pcsco.com <mailto:chads@pcsco.com>
mIRC: ROCKN6
Denison, IA
'87 GN  T-Tops (TE-44, 40lb Inj, Modified Stock IC, ATR Cam, JC Chip,
                          ATR 2 ½" SS Exhaust, TH 3" DP, 3" Test Pipe,
ATR
                          Ram Air)
'79 H/O T-Tops (400 HP/430 TQ ZZ4 350 H.O. Chevy, TH350, 3.73 Posi)

"Poverty Is Owning A Race Car"  "Happiness Is A Low E.T."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:57:12 -0400
From: Todd Morris <toddmorr@us.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: Exhaust ?'s

>I am getting close to installing a 68 455 into a 1970 Cutlass, since I do
>not have the correct exhaust manifolds I am considering hedders/2.5 inch
>system with a cross-over pipe and 3 chamber Flowmasters.

I have this exact configuration (Hooker Competition) and am pleased with it.
Clearly superior power, the sound is nice, not too loud.

Todd Morris
71 455

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:01:08 +0100
From: Matt Cremean <creme1ma@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu>
Subject: Re: Mission Fast Street Car Impossible

Edwin R Burger wrote:
>
> Does paxton make an intake to put the supercharger onto the 455, or are
> you having it custom made?  What kinda scratch does that all run ya?
>
> Ed

I got this one...

They make a special air box that covers the stock q-jet. They have it on
the web somewhere, I just forget the specific URL.

http://www.paxtonproducts.com

- --
*************
Matt Cremean
mailto:creme1ma@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
         777777 33333
            77      33
Cutlass    77    3333   Supreme
          77        33
         77     33333
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/
**************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:02:35 -0500
From: "Smetana, Christopher" <csmetana@dowagro.com>
Subject: RE: Mission Fast Street Car Impossible

>
>Edwin R Burger wrote:
>>
>> Does paxton make an intake to put the supercharger onto the 455, or are
>> you having it custom made?  What kinda scratch does that all run ya?
>>
>> Ed
>
>I got this one...
>
>They make a special air box that covers the stock q-jet. They have it on
>the web somewhere, I just forget the specific URL.
>
>http://www.paxtonproducts.com
>

It's probably a setup similar to the one used on 66 Shelby Mustangs
right? (note: I haven't looked at the web site which would probably
answer my question)

Chris Smetana
Terre Haute, IN
work: csmetana@dowagro.com
home: chris@abcs.com

1969 W-31
1969 4-4-2 parts car
plus others

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:55:48 -0400
From: RAY.COSTANZO@firstunion.com
Subject: Gbody computer

TO: Softswitch.OAS
CC:
FROM: RAY.COSTANZO@TAOFUN1
SUBJECT:  Gbody computer

   Couldn't respond privately because of an inept email system...

   When I took the computer out of my 87, all i had to do was physical
   ly remove it (from behind the kick panel in front passenger area).
   I tried to pull all the wires out, but some were snaked around too
   much.  All the other ends of the wires that were connected under th
   e hood, I disconnected and cut out (while leaving enough wire fro a
    resplice if ever necessary).  The computer controls so little, it
   doesn't matter.  You will then have a non-locking torque converter,
    however, which will affect fuel mileage.  Also, the CHECK ENGINE l
   ight will remain on.  I just ripped apart the dash and pulled the b
   ulb.  As far as the computer controlled metering rods and all in th
   e carb, no need to worry.  I didn't have to worry about that with m
   y car since nothing is original under the hood.
   One thing to worry about is passing your emmissions test, as your
   oxygen sensor will not be able to tell your metering rods to move a
   round as necessary (is that how it works?).  But there are always w
   ays to get around emissions laws]
   Good luck, and get rid of that damn computer]  Computers are for Ol
   ds-communication not Olds cars]
































------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 04:05:52 -0500
From: "Peter Landowski" <PETTRIX@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: 72 Gas Cap & antique plates

You got that right...As a police officer I can attest that to date I have
never, nor anyone on the department has pulled over someone with Antique
plates to find out where they are going....
Get the antique plates, it's only $5.00 a year to renew instead of $48.00
and the car will not have to go through emissions.....
Pettrix@prodigy.net

- ----------
> From: Mark Hahn <mahahn@fuse.net>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: 72 Gas Cap & antique plates
> Date: Tuesday, August 25, 1998 8:04 PM
>
> QWe have the same law in Ohio and I don't know anyone that ever got
> pulled over to ask where they are going. I think the cops have better
> things to do.
> Just MHO.
>
> Mark Hahn
> 75D88RC

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:13:35 +0100
From: Matt Cremean <creme1ma@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu>
Subject: Re: Mission Fast Street Car Impossible

Smetana, Christopher wrote:
>
> It's probably a setup similar to the one used on 66 Shelby Mustangs
> right? (note: I haven't looked at the web site which would probably
> answer my question)

Yes, It's basically the same.

- --
*************
Matt Cremean
mailto:creme1ma@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
         777777 33333
            77      33
Cutlass    77    3333   Supreme
          77        33
         77     33333
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/
**************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:06:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Edwin R Burger <erb22@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu>
Subject: Re: Mission Fast Street Car Impossible

I could not find mention on the q-jet system on the webpage.  Does anyone
have any more info or know where I could find any?

Thanks
Ed

> They make a special air box that covers the stock q-jet. They have it on
> the web somewhere, I just forget the specific URL.
>
> http://www.paxtonproducts.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:11:37 EDT
From: RCKTPWR@aol.com
Subject: 67 non conv frame..take it away....please !!!

67 442 Non-Conv frame,   FREE    come and get it soon !!!!

Bernie   NJ

908-276-5277

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:15:48 -0400
From: Todd Morris <toddmorr@us.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: header for '70 442 (455/auto)

>I have the engine in my 442 out, so I figure it's a good time to put
>headers in.  I have a '70 -- 455, auto, ps/pb, a/c.  What headers will fit
>best?  I called up PAW, and they said thier economy headers would fit
>best.  Anyone have experience putting headers into a similar car?

Don't do economy anything.  I'm a big header fan, have never had the bad
experiences others seem to have (rusting out, poor fit, clearance, leaks, etc.)
but thats because I've always bought good quality headers, only Hooker
Competition--around 170$ at Summit.  They do have Super Competition, which
apparently are the same but lighter weight metal and cost more.  Spend a bit
more here and you'll be glad you did.  Also, don't forget--buy good gaskets 
too.

Todd Morris
71 442

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:17:31 -0500
From: "Reed, Steve" <sreed@cp.varco.com>
Subject: Exhaust Leak

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:39:04 -0400
From: "Jason Adcock" <rocketolds@vt.edu>
Subject: Battery?  Alternator?  Exhaust Leak?

<Snip>

2)  I seem to have developed an exhaust leak ahead of the cat.

<Snip>

Jason,
	I have found a good way to find an exhaust leak while working as
a teenager @ Meineke.  Use a piece of 1/2" hose about 2 - 3 feel long,
and put one end to your ear as you use the other end to search around
for the leak.

Steve Reed
'70 4-4-2 Ragtop
Austin, TX

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:22:41 -0500
From: "Reed, Steve" <sreed@cp.varco.com>
Subject: Head Gasket Replacement

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 13:07:54 EDT
From: RICH6986@aol.com
Subject: putting in a head gasket??

i need to put a new head gasket in my V-6 3.8 its an 82 cutlass and i
have
never done one before and i want to know if i should try to do it
myself/or
take it some where.  Is it hard to do if not if some could just tell me
how to
do it or just where to start  TIA      Rich


Rich,
	Like someone on the list mentioned a service manual is a great
way to go.  I would really try and stop by a dealership and talk to a
mechanic, see if he would let you borrow the GM service manual for your
year vehicle if they still have it.  The true GM service manual is A LOT
better than any other manual out there.
	Why are you replacing the head gasket?  Did it blow out between
2 cylinders?  Is it leaking antifreeze?
	I ask this because you should DEFINITELY have the heads
resurfaced.  They are most likely warped if the gasket has failed. This
should cost approximately $20.00/Ea, and is a must.

Steve Reed
'70 4-2-2 Ragtop
Austin, TX

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:43:07 -0500
From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mh1.mcis.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Misrepresentation

I received this e-mail at the oldsfaqcompiler account on rocketmail. Can anyone
help this guy? I think he needs to contact a lawyer regarding this situation
rather than going it alone.

PLEASE REPLAY to
mailto:Allen.Wells.wellsa@nt.com
mailto:wellsa@nortel.com

- ----------
Dave,
I would really be interested in the FEDERAL law you make reference to on
your web page about selling vehicles fraudulently, I have recently
experienced this phenomenon (purchasing a 67' 442) and it is extremely
interesting to me that such a law exists. According to most people I talk to I
have little hope.
Thankyou, 9000 times

 Allen Wells
 CSS/NPI Engineer
 Esn 655-5076
 408-565-5076
 wellsa@nortel.com
- ----------
- --
David Brown          Mailto:dbrown@mh1.mcis.uchicago.edu
          Oldsmobile Mailing List FAQ 4.1 at:
http://www.442.com   OR   http://www.en.com/users/thall
Conserve bandwidth, get the zip file for local viewing:
           ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:54:06 -0700
From: Greg Pruett <grpruett@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Mission Fast Street Car Impossible

Johnson, Sam wrote:
>
> How would you turbo charge an Olds 455 anyway?  Just curious.

I've researched it a little bit myself, but I wanted to run EFI and two
of thoes chrysler turbos on a diesel 350 block converted to gasoline.
It seemed like a good candidate for turbos since it's so heavy duty to
start with.  That and they're cheap, which was another major
consideration for me. :)  Knowing my luck I'd end up blowing it all to
hell, and I'd hate to see that happen to a perfectly good 455 or regular
small block.  With that in mind I called Mondello a few weeks ago to see
about getting one of his diesel conversion kits, and he told me with the
stock innards, a 350 diesel conversion just doesn't run very well.  The
pistons and crank are extremely heavy, too heavy to turn much higher
than 3000 RPM.  He didn't go into great detail, but I've decided to hold
off on converting a 350 disel for awhile.  I don't have the money to
bankroll building up a 455 to take any serious boost, so I won't be
doing that any time soon either.

Anyways, here's some offhand thoughts on it:

I'm not sure how much beefing up a 455 would need but it would need
some.  Main cap girdles would be a good idea, as well as a balance and
blueprint.  You can only run about 7.5:1 or 8:1 compression with forced
induction.  The usual performance mods will apply here too:  Ported
heads, lumpy dual-pattern cam, roller rockers, etc.  A 425 might be
better suited for a turbo since they have forged cranks and can turn
higher RPM.

With turbochargers, you need EFI and electronic engine control,
especially for "streetable" power.  Turbochargers with carbueretors just
won't be worth the effort if you're trying to build your own turbo
setup.  Port EFI allows for better fuel metering and atomization, and it
makes it very easy to add an intercooler downstream of the turbo, which
really helps performance when the boost is on.  Knock
detection,electronic spark control, and boost control will really help
turbo performance too, as well as keep the engine alive.  Injecting
alcahol to reduce spark knock would also help control detonation.
Remember, it's the EFI and electronic controls that brought all thoes
turbo regals to life.  The carbuereted cars are considerably slower, and
run less boost.

Then of course you have to run all the pipes for it.  Custom headers
that empty towards the intake manifold would be ideal but expensive.
I've often wondered if you could swap stock exhaust manifolds
side-to-side then flip them over so that they dumped at the front of the
engine pointing up.  I don't think theyll bolt up like that, but it'd be
sweet if they did.  That way you could mount turbos close to the intake
with a minimum of pluming, and still use (cheap) stock manifolds.  I've
thought about mounting them where the manifolds dump in their stock
location, but it'd be a tight fit down there.  Plumbing in an
intercooler somewhere would be nice, it makes a big difference in
performance.

The car would need some serious gears since the turbos need to spool up
to make boost.  A manual tranny would be best since you can just rev the
engine to get the boost up and pop the clutch.  Automatics will work
too, but they need a high stall converter.  3.42 to 4.11 gears will be
neccesary, and if you want anything resembling gas mileage :) an
overdrive would make a nice addition.  The only overdrives that would
handle the power of that 455 would be a Richmond T56, 4L80E, or some
other expensive heavy duty unit.

Greg Pruett
72 Vista Cruiser
67 Cutlass Supreme
80 Cutlass Calais

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:41:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Edwin R Burger <erb22@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu>
Subject: Re: header for '70 442 (455/auto)

I agree with you on the whole economy thing, but I was told the hookers
wouldn't fit.  What setup are you running?

Ed

> Don't do economy anything.  I'm a big header fan, have never had the bad
> experiences others seem to have (rusting out, poor fit, clearance, leaks,
etc.) > but thats because I've always bought good quality headers, only Hooker 
>
Competition--around 170$ at Summit.  They do have Super Competition, which >
apparently are the same but lighter weight metal and cost more.  Spend a bit >
more here and you'll be glad you did.  Also, don't forget--buy good gaskets 
too.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:51:48 -0500
From: Chad Schwartz <ChadS@pcsco.com>
Subject: RE: Twin turbo 455 Olds

>Here are my thoughts:
>definently twin turbos much simpler to work with
>you don't have to make/change the intake
>I have 2 garret t03 (from my volvo turbo days)they should be large
anuff
>thise babys have the wastegatevalve (presurereulator) integrale with
the turbinehosing
>I have to:
>1. make/modify exaust manifoils
>2. make a pipe/hose frome the pressure side on the turbos to a plenum
chamber over the >carburator
>3. modify the carb, so that it can handle presure (its easy just have
to plugg some holes)
>4. finde a plase to drain oilpresure (oil pr,sender mayby)
>5. Hi vol, oil pump is a must
>6. modify the oilsump to aksept a hose frome the turbos
>7. 2.k/n konical turbo airfilters
>8. motor oil coler
>9.a new camshaft (thoug a regulare cam would work i would consider one
with sligtly more >lobeseparatione)

>mix and match and mount these things togheter and adjust timing, carb
and boost
>I gues that this settup will bring me on (guessing) about 500hk+,
depending on bost lewel. and i >would still have bottom end power,
drivabillity,and (well some) ekonomy

You could use after market external adjustable waste gates like some use
on GN's.  Easy boost adjustments and steady boost control without a
computer.  I would use a high lift short duration cam.  Don't want the
boost bleeding off and good spool response.  Modify a used GN, semi, or
front mount intercooler before the carb to cool down the intake charge
and reduce detonation while gaining some "free" horsepower".  High
volume fuel pump.  Ignition setup with automatic timing control and
knock sensor.  Timing has to be controlled very well so that normal
driving timing isn't reduced and detonation is controlled under boost at
different throttle positions.  You would probably have drivability and
detonation problems without it.  I like turbos better than super
chargers because they last longer, quieter, no belts or crank shaft
horsepower loss, can easily increase/decrease boost levels according to
gas in the car, and capable of producing more horsepower.

Chad Schwartz
chads@pcsco.com <mailto:chads@pcsco.com>
mIRC: ROCKN6
Denison, IA
'87 GN  T-Tops (TE-44, 40lb Inj, Modified Stock IC, ATR Cam, JC Chip,
                          ATR 2 ½" SS Exhaust, TH 3" DP, 3" Test Pipe,
ATR
                          Ram Air)
'79 H/O T-Tops (400 HP/430 TQ ZZ4 350 H.O. Chevy, TH350, 3.73 Posi)

"Poverty Is Owning A Race Car"  "Happiness Is A Low E.T."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:01:17 -0400
From: "Jason Adcock" <rocketolds@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Battery? Alternator? Exhaust Leak?

Thanks for the advice so far.  A few folks have hinted at a fuel-related
problem.

I guess this brings up a separate question:  How do you change the fuel
filter?  I'm sure it's quite easy, because it seems to be the solution for
many problems.  Just pull the fuel line off the front?  Unscrew gas cap
first?

Again, the car is an '84 Cutlass with 307 V8.

Thanks much.

Jason Adcock
mailto:rocketolds@vt.edu
http://www.cslab.vt.edu/~jadcock

- -----Original Message-----
From: Andrew C. Green <acg_o@hotmail.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Thursday, August 27, 1998 4:37 PM
Subject: Re: Battery? Alternator? Exhaust Leak?


>Look for leaks or a clogged filter, maybe.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:57:02 -0500
From: Doug Newman <newmand@WCBI.com>
Subject: OOPS! Was: What's wrong with V-6 3.8?

Hey folks,
             I made an ignoramus post last night - I don't speak metric,
so I didn't realize that my Buick 231 ci engine in my old 4 dr. '82
Cutlass WAS a 3.8 Liter. Whenever somebody asks me what size engine is
in my Olds, I say 307, not 5.0.  Same with the truck:  350 instead of
5.7.  (Hey, I go to the store to buy a 1/2 gallon of milk, not 1.89
liters, ya know?) Like I said, I don't speak metric, and it's been nine
years since I sold my '82.  Loved the car, but it was just too heavy for
that 231.  Since I don't know simple conversions, maybe I should apply
for a job in upper management here at the TV station.  I can hear the
final interview question now:  "Did you know that 3.8 liters converts to
231 cubic inches?"  "...No...I didn't know that."  "Congratulations!
Here's your key to the executive washroom..."  D'oh!!

Doug Newman         OCA # 30311
Columbus, MS         1987 442   (307 sounds better that 5.0, anyway...)

http://www.442.com/newman.html
http://www.442.com/newmantape.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:31:30 EDT
From: MFATZII@aol.com
Subject: Re: SS1's For Sale

I would.  I'd have snatched them two Cutlass' at that ol' farm auction,
too... if I lived in Nebraska.


the one had a 350 that would have ran with a little coaxing....would have
bought it for the 30 dollars just for the motor if I had a way to get it home
without a lot of hassle.  The same motor at the local salvage yard would be
atleast 200 dollars.  Oh ya and the rims I found out today I could have for 15
DOLLARS EACH ! I also found out that they ARE the SSI's and that there is NO
beauty rings.  (The buick rims had rings of about the same year)




Ryan (MFatzII@aol.com)
Lincoln,   Nebraska  (Home of the Cornhuskers, too bad they suck !)

56 88 4dr Sedan  (Project Rocket)
<A HREF="http://www.mergetel.com/~lee/cutlass/rides/wieders2/">Click here</A>
85 Cutlass Supreme Brougham
89 Chevy Beretta CL


    888                888
  8      8           8       8
8          8       8           8
  8      8           8       8
    8  8               8   8           LIVES
  8      8           8       8
8          8       8           8
  8     8            8       8
    888                888

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:31:22 -0400
From: "Dave Cullen" <david.cullen@snet.net>
Subject: Re: Transmission Chattering

.  When I'm driving and the trans. shifts to O/D 4th And its
>reving at around 2100 RPM's I start hearing this chattering noise but I
don't
>know what it is.

Mine does that when it's really hot. I think it's the TCC (torque converter
clutch).

drc

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:43:14 EDT
From: Stakin@aol.com
Subject: Re: header for '70 442 (455/auto)

<<

 I have the engine in my 442 out, so I figure it's a good time to put
 headers in.  I have a '70 -- 455, auto, ps/pb, a/c.  What headers will fit
 best?  I called up PAW, and they said thier economy headers would fit
 best.  Anyone have experience putting headers into a similar car?

 Thanks,
  >>

I would recomend against the economy headers. THey surely will fit but the
money you spend on "GOOD" headers will be money you save later. Ive done both
and like my hooker super comps best. The economy headers arent welded nearly
as well , tend to warp especially at the collector flange , and rust rather
quickly.

Joe Stackman
68 & 69 442's

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:54:10 EDT
From: Stakin@aol.com
Subject: Re: 72 H/O paint questions

<< It's the originality thing again, plus I don't want to go to a show or
 cruise and P.O. any other H/O owners off. >>

I cannot offer anything about the paint  but I would like to comment on this
part of your post.    Who cares what other H/O owners think about that? It is
YOUR car right? If you like it like that then do it.  Just my opinion  but I
get alot of flack at car shows with my 69 442 that I braket race and cruise
because of how heavily modified the car is. Its al just bolt ons but I still
get tons of flack.   I have a 68 442 too that is currently under constuction
that I am half temted to make a H/O copy out of  and put all the braket car
parts into it just to piss off those guys..  Im not  but boy do I think about
it.      OK Ill get down off this stump now <G>

Joe Stackman

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 20:10:49 -0400
From: "B. Vosburgh" <bob442@svic.net>
Subject: aluminum heads

Well just installed my set of heads, milled to 70 cc 28 thou. head
gasket 35 thou. deck height and trw forged pistons. Machine shop said
right in at 11 to 1 comp. Going to run it saturday at Gainesville . it
does seem a lot more responsive to the throttle,but the track dont lie.
will post sunday and let you know if it was all worth it.
  Butch  68  442 post

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:14:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Pajak <jspajak@yahoo.com>
Subject: Exhaust Leak

     Jason, your exhaust leak may be caused by rusted A.I.R.
manifolds. Replacing them looks difficult but it's not too bad!
     While on the subject of A.I.R. manifolds, I'd like to share a
helpful tip. Most of the time on the 307 cars I've found that the
wiring and hoses are too close to the one way valves that screw into
the A.I.R. manifolds. Mine were too close and the MAP sensor vacuum
line burnt through. Luckily no wires got burned!
     ALL LATE MODEL V8 OWNERS: Please check yours! 5 minutes and a few
wire ties is all it takes!

Later
==
"2 + 2 = 5 for sufficiently large values of 2"

John Pajak
Lexington Park, Maryland

Check out our Oldsmobiles and more at
http://members.tripod.com/~JSPajak
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 20:38:10 -0400
From: "Dave Cullen" <david.cullen@snet.net>
Subject: Re: A couple questions for the folks in Olds land

>
>Some intangible reasons I am leaning towards the 84 myself:
>
>I've had the 79 since 88.  My wife knows it from then.  It's had problems,
>and my wife got stranded in it a few times
<snip>
>The 84 may not actually be any more reliable, but we at least don't know it
>isn't right now, if you know what I mean.
>
>Jim
>

Sounds like you've convinced yourself that the 79 is history. I can tell you
that the 84 will be far easier to find parts for, and that 307's are among
the most reliable small blocks ever made. I'd try to weasel the $1800 price
down a bit though, unless it's immaculate. I paid 1500 for an 85 Delta with
123,000 well-maintained miles.

drc

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 20:48:07 -0400
From: "Dave Cullen" <david.cullen@snet.net>
Subject: Re: What is wrong with V6 3.8?

> Guys, I meant no disrespect for the 3.8 in my previous post.  My
>1982 Cutlass Supreme that I drove in high school and college

I had one of those. Put $1500 into restoring it, then it broke the cam at
77,000 miles. Bye-bye time.

>had a Buick
>231 V-6 in it with a 2bbl. carb, and that thing was anemic.  I've never
>had any experience with running a 3.8, but that 231 soured me on 6's for
>one lifetime.

Ummm ... same thing - 3.8 ltrs = 231 cu in. Same p.o.s., different
measurement systems.

drc

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 21:06:35 -0400
From: "Dave Cullen" <david.cullen@snet.net>
Subject: Re: 72 H/O paint questions

>The 72 H/O is heading for the paint shop Sunday and I have a couple of
>questions.
>
>My paint guy asked me what type of paint I preferred. I prefer to go the
>basecoat/clearcoat route, but my concern is with originality.  <snip> The
original paint is enamel, yes?


I think most Olds' received laquer. But my experience is limited to post '78
(my first Olds).

>If I decided to show the car at some point or sell it (don't plan to,
>but...)
>would the car be judged lower or be valued less with a basecoat/clearcoat
>type paint job?


Sincerely doubt it. How many judges could tell?

>If I go with a clearcoat, he wanted to know if I wanted to clearcoat over
>the new decals?

Bad idea. That will be the first place the paint chips and peels from. Seen
it happen too many times.

As an aside, laquer is still a viable paint option, but the modern polyester
/ urethane paints are far superior. Laquer dries hard and brittle, and tends
to chip and crack easily. Flexible parts like plastic or fiberglass require
special additives (flex agents) to keep the paint from cracking. It's also
labor intensive (lotsa sanding and buffing). The modern paints are extremely
durable and much more flexible. You'd be happier in the long run.

drc


drc

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 21:20:20 EDT
From: OldsGuyGA@aol.com
Subject: Re: Conv. Top Bow??

i have one..need to check it out in my basement...

how much would you pay  ????>>>
   jeff

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 21:32:50 -0400
From: "Dave Cullen" <david.cullen@snet.net>
Subject: Re: Starter, multitester was: starter problems, please h*lp

>And now an opinion;
>Oldsmobilers,
>       Aquire for yourselves a GOOD multitester. I have found that even the
>antequated one that I have (cannot measure less than 1 volt, or measure 1
volt
>accurately) is INVALUABLE in troubleshooting! Especially for electrical
>problems! The key features must be Volts, AMPeres, and Resistance

An R X 1 scale (under 1 ohm) is necessary for really low resistance
measurements. A "beeper" or buzzer for continuity testing is nice too.
Current measurement scale of 10 amp or better is also really handy. If its a
digital model, 3 1/2 digits is good enough, but make sure it has a diode
test mode. Analog VOM's can do this OK in the R X 100 scale.

Fluke and Keithley are the digital brands of choice in the professional
world, with Simpson still king of the analog meter. But Shadio Rack is OK
too, although not as rugged, and my own meter is from Sears. It works.

drc

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 21:38:57 EDT
From: KarlAune@aol.com
Subject: Re: Valve Overlap

In a message dated 98-08-26 17:18:39 EDT, you write:

<< The term for both valves being open simultaneously is called "Valve
 Overlap" >>

Agreed.

But what I was trying to say is that the overlap can lead to something else.

Either "blow down" or "reversion" or something.
Where exhaust gases can be pulled back into the cylinder at high RPM.

But thanks!
You are indeed right about that part!

SOM
&KA

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 20:58:47 -0700
From: "Mick Gillespie" <mgillespie@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: OOPS! Was: What's wrong with V-6 3.8?

- -----Original Message-----
From: Doug Newman <newmand@wcbi.com>
To: 'oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca' <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Thursday, August 27, 1998 6:13 PM
Subject: OOPS! Was: What's wrong with V-6 3.8?


>Hey folks,
>             I made an ignoramus post last night - I don't speak metric,
>so I didn't realize that my Buick 231 ci engine in my old 4 dr. '82
>Cutlass WAS a 3.8 Liter.

Hey Doug,
If that's the worst mistake you make, you're 'way ahead of the game.

Take care,

Mick Gillespie,
69 Cutalss Conv.
80 Toronado Brougham
mgillespie@sprynet.com
http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/mgillespie/oldspage.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 22:07:56 EDT
From: DKlauber@aol.com
Subject: car cacoon ?

Does anybody on the list use them?  Any brand recommendations?  Any problems
that folks have had?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 20:13:11 -0600
From: Oldsmagnet <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Rocket Talk?  Anyone coming?

Wow, it's already Thursday!!!  Crazy week...  Anyway, room's open, if anyone's
around to stop in.  Just heard from Karl, he's having aol problems (that's a
service provider, for those unfamiliar...  Has nothing to do with human 
anatomy,
regardless of how often aol is compared to that part...  ;)

Probably see ~someone~ there...
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner/oldschat.htm
- --
Oldsmagnet - Charley Buehner @ Sidney Montana |\      |-------|
mailto:buehner@lyrea.com To mail direct to me |/\|=|  |   |   |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner See my homepage |\ |=|  |   |   |
   \ | / =========================== \ | /    |<||=|  |   |   |
    \|/  List Removal and Guidelines  \|/     |/ |=|  |  / \  |
     V   ===========================   V      |\/|=|  | / | \ |
  http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner/listfaq.htm   |/      |___|___|

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 22:22:16 +0100
From: Matt Cremean <creme1ma@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu>
Subject: Re: Rocket Talk?  Anyone coming?

Oldsmagnet wrote:
>
> Wow, it's already Thursday!!!  Crazy week...  Anyway, room's open, if 
anyone's
> around to stop in.  Just heard from Karl, he's having aol problems (that's a
> service provider, for those unfamiliar...  Has nothing to do with human
anatomy, > regardless of how often aol is compared to that part...  ;)

Charley, are you there right now? I am and I see nobody.

- --
*************
Matt Cremean
mailto:creme1ma@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
         777777 33333
            77      33
Cutlass    77    3333   Supreme
          77        33
         77     33333
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/
**************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 23:04:56 EDT
From: JJP442@aol.com
Subject: Re:  87 olds

87 Olds what?????

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 23:22:34 EDT
From: CRuper1@aol.com
Subject: Re: UPDATE aluminum heads!

In a message dated 8/25/98 1:51:02 PM Central Daylight Time,
olds442@primenet.com writes:

> Here is the scoop. I installed my aluminum heads. Ordered my full roller
>  rockers, got my monsterous pushrods and got the whole assembly running!
>  This thing is got some more pep behind it now! It was real strong, but
>  now it's even stronger! I knew the aluminum heads would be awesome, but
>  this awesome... The car has a new exhaust note and is louder than I
>  imagined it... Economy wise here is how I was at stock. I ran about 3500
>  rpm at 85 mph. I have 3.08 rear with a TH-400. Well, I've made my mods:
>  Edelbrock aluminum heads (right out of the box), Full roller rockers,
>  headman Headers, Edelbrock performer intake and performer 750 Q-jet
>  carb. MSD ignition. NOW HERE IS THE KICKER!!! Yesterday just cruising
>  along I was at about 2900 rpm at 85!!!!! What a performance and economy
>  gain!!!

OK, I've been giving this some thought, and have a few things to add to this
debate.

First, Let's figure here are >no< electrical problems that would cause erratic
tach readings (since this could be your reason for the RPM change).  I'll lead
this off by saying that there is a difference in how the torque converter
acts, depending on power put into it.  The more power you put into the
converter (of a given size), the higher the stall speed.

An example:  If you have a TH-350 trans with an 11 inch diameter converter.
If you are running a stock 350 Olds motor in it, you will have one stall
speed.  If you were to change the 350, and swap in a 455 (meaning you change
nothing else in the driveline but the motor, leaving the same trans, and
converter), you will have a higher stall speed.  (my reference on this is the
HP Book on TH-350 trannies (plus the other variations such as the TH-200,
TH350C, etc...), but I can't remember the author at this time.

OK, to follow this up.  I'm not sure what type of a relationship the power
factor has on other operating conditions of the converter.  What I'm thinking
(along the lines of) is this.....
We know that a torque converter does not lock up completely (unless there is a
lock-up switch, etc.).  There is always a constant "slip" during driving (a
certain percentage of RPM is lost to "slippage" where input, and output aren't
"in synch").    Now, on to the next idea...  Say that power/and capability to
keep the driveline turning at one certain speed is determined by level of
power put into the converter.  i.e.: if you have a lower powered motor, it
will take more RPM to keep the driveline at a certain speed, than a higher
powered motor would.  Another possibility (and the more I think about it, this
seems more likely) is that a certain amount of power is required to make the
driveline turn at a specific speed.  Meaning that if a motor makes more power
at lower RPM, then the input would not be required to be as high as when the
motor needs to turn faster to make the required power.

I'm just tossing some ideas out about this subject.

BTW, another note.  He later added that he was basically idling when doing 85,
and he was "sneered at" for this funny comment by some.  What he meant was
that at 85 MPH, he is barely giving it any gas to keep the car moving.  With
my 2.29 rear end in my Cutlass, when I'm cruising at 60-65 MPH, I'm doing
between 2200 and 2500 on the tach.  I'm hardly using any gas to keep the car
moving at this point.

Chris Ruper

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 20:22:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: ef01@sprynet.com
Subject: 425 lifter dia. ques.

Pulled the valve covers off the delta to replace gaskets. Engine was extremely
gunked up. Rockers looked really dry. Ran the motor with the valve cover off 
and
 noticed that some of the pushrods are clogged up and not squirting oil out.
Also engine has lifter tick. So I have decided to replace the lifters and clean
the push rods. After ordering lifters from PAW I discovered in the Oldsfaq that
 lifters come in two diameters 0.921" and .842". According to the faq: "The 425
"D" blocks come in two configurations: Toronado units have larger lifters, set
on a more modern bank angle, whereas more mundane [non-Toro] 425 blocks have
the common smaller lifters set on the early cam bank angle."

My engine is casting #389244D and head #N7433865S in a 66 Delta 88 I think it 
is
 original. According to my 1966 chassis service manual the 425 engine for 54
through 86 series has a lifter diameter of 0.9210" - 0.9215". This contradicts
the faq which says non TORO "D" motors should have the smaller dia. Anyone ever
run into this? Should I pull the old ones out and measure them? My buddy has a
dial caliper that should be accurate enough to measure the difference. Any
advice tricks on pulling lifters first time.

In other news last week I fixed the power top turns out previous owner had a 15
amp circuit breaker should be a 40 amp circuit breaker. Would have been nice to
figure that out before I put a new top motor in.

Thanks,

Erik Ferguson
ef01@sprynet.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 23:31:15 EDT
From: KWhite5590@aol.com
Subject: Re: Valve Overlap

KA,
your right exhaust gases flowing back into the combustion chamber is
known as reversion.


Kevin White
look only 2  caps

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 22:33:04 -0600
From: Matthew Mayer <mmayer@interaccess.com>
Subject: Re:   Exhaust Leak?

Jason Adcock wrote:
>
> Hi list.  I haven't asked any questions of y'all for a while, so I thought
> I'd take care of it in one e-mail...
>
><snip>
>
> 2)  I seem to have developed an exhaust leak ahead of the cat.  After a
> thorough drive, there's a thudding sound from the lower right-hand side of
> the engine.  I've always feared rod-knock, but I don't think it's that.  You
> can almost hear it in the interior louder than crouching on the ground just
> behind the right front tire.  Anyone had this in their G-Body before?  It's
> an '84 Calais with the 307.
>
Jason,
  Check out your AIR tubes in the right side head.  The top of mine
broke off (or corroded off..) just past the check valve in the line
coming from the AIR pump.  I drove my exhaust guys crazy for two days
swearing up and down I had an exhaust leak when, in actuality, it was
exhaust backing up the AIR tube.

HTH..
- --
- ---Matt
Chicago, IL
'86 442
- --------------------------------------------------------
mailto:mmayer@interaccess.com    |  VM: 800-481-1323
- --------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 23:38:35 EDT
From: MMBJL@aol.com
Subject: 72 CUTLASS BODY RIVETS

HI,
       I have a 72 supreme, there are rivets on the body that hold the chrome
door gaurds on(they are on rear qtr. doors and fenders) I am looking for some
opinions on the best way  to remove them and welding the small hole. I am
looking for durability, dont want to have to do it again. Reasonably priced
would be good also!
            I was also wondering if any one knows of a good body person in
Medford MA. area of the world. I do not know many good body shops around here
that are reasonable. Please help.Thank you in advance.
                      marty
                      e-mail at ---imboud8@aol.com---

- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ---------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 00:11:40 -0400
From: "Andersons" <robertan@cfw.com>
Subject: Re: obsessed with my 67

They can be like family, or sometimes better.  The black '71 conv. has
always been "The Southside Car"- not a name so much as a state of being....

My son is 16, has first fast-food job, license soon, and is snooping for
wheels.  He has a line on a well-used '83 Delta 88 (I think) for $300.
Awwwww- think I might help him out on this project?- you betcha!
- -----Original Message-----
From: Kimberly Ann Wandrey <kaw0006@jove.acs.unt.edu>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Thursday, August 27, 1998 12:32 AM
Subject: Re: obsessed with my 67


>Hi Guys and Gals!
>
>A few years ago Kim was flying to Chicago to visit Dad. A lady sitting
>next to Kim asked if I had any kids.
>
>Kim said yes, his name is Junior.
>Kim takes the picture out and shocks the #$!! out of her when the picture
>was of an Oldsmobile instead of a human. :)
>
>No one panic. ;) Kim is pursuing a Master's Degree in Rehab Counseling
>specializing in addictions.
>
>My name is Kim. Kim is a hopeless oldmobilaholic.... ;)
>
>Kim & Junior ('72 Cutlass Supreme)
>Dallas, Texas
>kaw0006@jove.acs.unt.edu
>Member OCA & NTOC
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 21:35:59 -0700
From: Ben <olds442@primenet.com>
Subject: Re: UPDATE aluminum heads!

> BTW, another note.  He later added that he was basically idling when doing 
85,
> and he was "sneered at" for this funny comment by some.  What he meant was
that > at 85 MPH, he is barely giving it any gas to keep the car moving.  With
my 2.29 > rear end in my Cutlass, when I'm cruising at 60-65 MPH, I'm doing
between 2200 > and 2500 on the tach.  I'm hardly using any gas to keep the car
moving at this > point. > > Chris Ruper

  Thanks Chris, Somebody out there in olds land actually understood that
statement. I had this problem before. When I was deployed I signed with the 
list
and got email and posed a few questions for my 68 and my 62. Well, I got 
similar
responses. There are far too many people out there just having fun bursting
other's bubbles and poking fun at others train of thoughts than there should 
be.
I was "sneared at" when i asked Buick questions because the 62 f-85 engine was
built by buick. Also, I was considering a purchase of a GTO at the time. Only
one person actually offered information to a Marine who was forwardly deployed
and wanted to get info to help him spend his savings when he returned home. Out
of all the people on this list, the percentage of those actually doing good and
offering their help and expertise is far smaller than those here just poking 
fun
and wise cracks at others expenses. And often it's not only the ego at stake,
but the pocket book cause we are dealing with a very expensive hobby. Anyhow,
just speaking my mind at the relief that 1 out of how ever many we have on this
list actually cares about offering help rather than making jokes.

And I signed off the list last time cause it was too narrow minded. I love the
threads when we all are open minded about ALL cars and offer help rather than
offer puns.

Ben

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 11:36:51 -0500
From: "Peter Landowski" <PETTRIX@prodigy.net>
Subject: New odometer for 72??

I recently installed a new motor and trans in my 72 442. The odometer reads
26,000 miles. I pulled the speedometer/odometer assembly out and tried to
roll the numbers  back to 00000. I had no luck. It would only roll forward
(very slowly).
Is there a place to just buy the digit assembly? It is easy to change, just
don't know who carries these assemblies.
Pettrix@prodigy.net

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 00:47:36 EDT
From: Stakin@aol.com
Subject: Re: UPDATE aluminum heads!

On this debate , wich I apperently missed ,  I like the lower RPM explanation
as is relates to the converter and increased power. I am curious what kind of
Tach you are running in conjuntion with that MSD unit , and wich MSD are you
running , a 6A ?

Joe Stackman

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 00:56:04 EDT
From: Stakin@aol.com
Subject: Rallye 350 ID

I am wondering if anyone on the list knows how to authenticate a Rallye 350
bye the VIN and or cowl tag?  What is the paint code for this car ? Where they
plant specific IE Lansing ? And any other things that could be used to
authenticate  this car before I buy it.  Thanks in advance.

Joe Stackman

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 01:31:44 -0000
From: "RANDY A GEISEL" <RANDYGEISEL@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: New odometer for 72??

>I recently installed a new motor and trans in my 72 442. The odometer reads
26,000 miles. I pulled the speedometer/odometer assembly out and tried to
roll the numbers  back to 00000.

I need to ask this. Why are you rolling the odometer back? You don't
normally do this just because you put in a new motor. What you are doing
isn't exactly legal. The odometer reading is the mileage on the whole car,
not just the motor. I was hanging out at my neighbors garage the other day
and he went over this same thing with one of his customers. He even called
the state police and had them explain it to his customer.

Just wondering,
Randy

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 06:06:38 -0500
From: David L Wyatt <WYATT_DAVID_L@lilly.com>
Subject: Re: Gbody computer

I have a $600 81 sh*tV m*libu I am getting ready to drop the 229 V6 back in.
(It keeps the miles off of the 4-4-2 and who cares if a bowtie gets damaged)
I am also eliminating the computer and this info was very timely.  Ray says
that the metering rods will not really be effected in the stock carb.  This
has been my only concern because I did not want to loose the 17 mpg I am
getting, plus the consistant 12.90 ET (1/8 mile) at the strip.  The EGR was
disconnected when I got it and the converter did not know wheather it was
coming or going.  I disconnected the tranny wires and it worked like a normal
non lock up converter.  I also found an extra wire coming out the base of the
HEI that had been disconnected.
I am assuming this had went to the computer to control timing, but do not
know.  This car has the computer behind the kick panel and also a box in the
front of the right front fender next to the battery.  I don,t know if Olds has
this, but if so, can it be removed also?


Thanks,
Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 07:13:21 EDT
From: SOMMERVLLE@aol.com
Subject: list

Hey everyone, is it me or has the message level dropped drastically. I've only
got 4 messages in the last 2 days. I figure that since I'm in NC and that
hurricane bonnie just hit us must have wiped out the entire list (HA HA). Just
wondering Thanks Chris


Chris Sommerville
69 442 SC
70 442
70 W31

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 07:32:07 -0500
From: "Johnson, Sam" <SAJOHNSON@usds.com>
Subject: RE: UPDATE aluminum heads!

Ben

How much more did you have to spend when you got the aluminum heads?  I
wanted to get them for next year and wanted know what extras would I need.

Thanks

PS

That was a great comment too.

Thanks Chris, Somebody out there in olds land actually understood that
statement. I had this problem before. When I was deployed I signed with the
list and got email and posed a few questions for my 68 and my 62. Well, I
got similar responses
======================
Sam E. Johnson, JR.
>  <mailto:Cutlass403@ameritech.net> Cutlass403@ameritech.net
>1971 Cutlass S 455
>Westside! Chitown IL
17 Wins 11 Losses
======================

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Aug 98 08:04:06 -0500
From: brad.nicholson@ssa.gov
Subject: Richard Petty Hot Wheel Set & Ertle '69 H/O

My wife got the JC Penney Christmas catalog yesterday and inside was the 
Richard
Petty Hot Wheel set w/ '57 white Olds hardtop, '70 Plymouth Superbird and Kyle
Petty's '98 Pontiac Grand Prix #44.  Don't remember the price, but at least you
don't have to go searching every toy store & department around your area.

Also but on a short timeframe, I think JC Penney may still have some of the
Ertle 1969 H/O cars left, as they were available through last Christmas'
catalog, and it is good only until Aug 31, 1998.

I'll get the item numbers tonight and post them to the list.  Happy shopping!


 -----  Brad Nicholson (OCA's WebGuy)
|  |  | OCA# 18984
|  |  | 1987 442 W-42
|  |  | 1994 Eighty Eight LSS
|  |  | President, Oldsmobile Centennial Club (Maryland Chapter of OCA)
|  |  | Oldsmobile Centennial Club Web Site: http://www.erols.com/brad442/occ
| /|\ | H: brad442@erols.com
|/ | \| W: brad.nicholson@ssa.gov
|  |  | OCA: WebGuy@oldsclub.org
 -----  Oldsmobile Club of America Web Site: http://www.oldsclub.org

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 08:43:11 -0400
From: "Alice Bryant" <ACB@fp1.fmc.sc.edu>
Subject: Re:  87 olds

'87 olds cutlass ciera

>>> <JJP442@aol.com> 08/27 11:04 PM >>>
87 Olds what?????

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Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 08:59:29 EDT
From: AGUY4RUMLI@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Mission Fast Street Car Impossible

In a message dated 8/27/98, 1:47:53 PM, oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca writes:
<<Does paxton make an intake to put the supercharger onto the 455, or are
you having it custom made?  What kinda scratch does that all run ya?>>
No need for an intake. You force the air right into the top of your carb. Some
people put the carb in a fabricated box with a tube running to it. I bought a
8'' inch aircleaner and where the element goes im going to seal it and run a
tube to it and just bolt it to the top of the pro injection

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Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:15:51 -0400
From: "Proietto, Fernando [Ontario]" <Fernando.Proietto@ec.gc.ca>
Subject: RE: 425 lifter dia. ques.

If the lifters are mushroomed then you may have to end up pushing them
through the lifter bore instead of pulling them out, otherwise you will
score the bore. To do this you will have to remove the cam shaft. More work
then you anticipated...hope it works out.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	ef01@sprynet.com [SMTP:ef01@sprynet.com]
> Sent:	Thursday, August 27, 1998 11:23 PM
> To:	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject:	425 lifter dia. ques.
>
	...snipped...

> My engine is casting #389244D and head #N7433865S in a 66 Delta 88 I think
> it is
> original. According to my 1966 chassis service manual the 425 engine for
> 54
> through 86 series has a lifter diameter of 0.9210" - 0.9215". This
> contradicts
> the faq which says non TORO "D" motors should have the smaller dia. Anyone
> ever
> run into this? Should I pull the old ones out and measure them? My buddy
> has a
> dial caliper that should be accurate enough to measure the difference. Any
>
> advice tricks on pulling lifters first time.
>

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Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 15:24:01
From: <crl6420@online.no>
Subject: link to a blower page

Have not been there myself,
just read a magazine who had the URL

http://www.procharger.com

Chris RL
Cutlass Calais -81

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Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 08:27:42 -0500
From: "Smetana, Christopher" <csmetana@dowagro.com>
Subject: RE: Hold-down minutiae - Again!?!?

Been meaning to follow up with this, but kept forgetting my notes.
Hey Joe, here's what I found, I'm sure you should see the same thing by
checking a 69 assembly manual.

><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<   WARNING   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
>Nit picky restoration details follow.  DO NOT read this post if this will
>bore you to tears and cause you to pass out and fall off your chair!  WE
>CLAIM NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY INJURIES RESULTING FROM READING THIS POST.
>
><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<   WARNING
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>
>First, for Chris Smetana:  My 1969 factory service manual clearly shows the
>clip _with_ fingers being used to hold the modulator pipe on TH350
>applications.  See Fig 7-663 on page 7-679.  BUT - the TH400 modulator pipe
>is restrained with the non-fingered clip and the notorious plastic
>strap-type retainer, apparently what Chris has on his car (these are shown
>in Fig 7-24 on page 7-25).  In fact, Fig 6B-119 shows two of the "fingered"
>clips in the number 3 and 4 positions on the right valve cover and a flat
>clip in the number one position.  Flat clips are also shown in the number
>1, 3, and 4 positions on the left valve cover.  The fingers point down,
>towards the intake and the pipe is routed under the clips.
All right I checked my service manual, and there it is clear as day the
two different types for each transmission.

But, I submit into evidence, people's exhibit D (not that I'm trying to
prove you wrong or me right or anything like that, it just seemed
natural)  which is a copy of a page from the 1969 assembly manual
printed (reproduced actually) by Year One.  In section 7 on page 149 you
will see a very familiar drawing.  A drawing for the M38 with pictures
that clearly show the ~non~ fingered clip used on the modulator pipe and
advance hose.
But (he says again), I would also like to submit people's exhibit E,
which is also from that same assembly manual.  In fact it's the next
page, which is for everything except M38 (manual tranny excluded of
course) and it clearly shows the ~exact same setup for the M40~  Now
this leads to the most obviously question/comment - HUH?!?  So, is this
an apparent conflict between the service manual and the assembly manual?
 My guess is they could potentially both be correct.

But (he says again, (all right Chris knock it off)), I have examined and
'borrowed' parts from what appears to be a very original 71 S with 350
4bbl and turbo 350 in the junkyard.  Acutally, I'm guessing original
since it still had the locking tabs on the exhaust manifold bolts.  And
this car had on the valve cover holding the modulator pipe (distributor
was already gone) a clip ...... drum roll please ..... ~without~
fingers.  HUH?!!?!?
So what does this tell us?  Heck, I don't know.  Maybe we have to much
time on our hands to be concerned with a minute detail such as this,
then again, if you're doing a detailed resto this is the info you need
to know.  And I believe it also proves that what the factory did and the
manual(s) shows is not always the same.  Oh, I also found the clip
~without~ fingers still attached to the ~wiring~ harness on a 68 S post,
there was no drivetrain or front end sheetmetal so I don't know what it
was originally.

Chris Smetana
Terre Haute, IN
work: csmetana@dowagro.com
home: chris@abcs.com

1969 W-31
1969 4-4-2 parts car
plus others
>
>

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Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 08:32:58 -0500
From: "grubis" <grubis@ro.com>
Subject: Body Side Moulding

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I am in desperate need of body side moulding for the passenger side of =
72 Cutlass Supreme 2dr HT or Convertible.  This is the 4 piece moulding =
that run from the rear of the front wheel opening to the rear bumper.  =
Please help.  email grubis@ro.com=20


                                                            Thanks=20
                                                            Prentiss =
Grubis


                                                           =20

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</HEAD>
<BODY background=3D"">
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I am in desperate need of body side =
moulding for=20
the passenger side of 72 Cutlass Supreme 2dr HT or Convertible.&nbsp; =
This is=20
the 4 piece moulding that run from the rear of the front wheel opening =
to the=20
rear bumper.&nbsp; Please help.&nbsp; email <A=20
href=3D"mailto:grubis@ro.com">grubis@ro.com</A> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
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Thanks </FONT></DIV>
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Prentiss Grubis</FONT></DIV>
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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #1452
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