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Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #1470


oldsmobile-digest     Tuesday, September 8 1998     Volume 01 : Number 1470



PAY OFF ALL YOUR BILLS....
Re: Custom Cutlass IROC.
Re: drag strip question
Re: Custom Cutlass IROC.
Re: 455 Project: Aircraft Engine
Re: '69 442 colors and stripes
Re: MAYBE W-32?
Re: Busting knuckles
Re: 455 Motors
Re: who is running a holley or edelbrock?
need side mirror Id
Re: Custom Cutlass IROC.
Re: Busting knuckles
Re: who is running a holley or edelbrock?
Cam Question
72 cutlass supreme
Re: Custom Cutlass IROC.
Re: Decal Part #, Anyone?
Re: Oil Pump Access?
82 Cutlass Steering Wheels
Re: ? 1972 W-29?
Re: drag strip question
Re: Oil Pump Access?
Re: MAYBE W-32?
drag strip
RE: paging stan
Re: who is running a holley or edelbrock?
Re: MAYBE W-32?
anyone running an MSD billet distributor?
HEI: buy a "built" one or convert stock unit?
where is the buzzer at help??
RE: buy a "built" one or convert stock unit?
Re: paging stan
RE: paging stan
Re: anyone running an MSD billet distributor?
Re: Misc replies / SHOCKS
Re: found around town
MSD Website was HEI
Re: 80's G-Body Part Needed.
Re: 80's G-Body Part Needed.
Re: 80's G-Body Part Needed.
Ideas on 455 Aircraft Engine.
Re: The General's store
Re: 80's G-Body Part Needed.
Re: Misc replies / SHOCKS
arcing problem and spark plugs readings
Re: Ideas on 455 Aircraft Engine.
I'm Back!  What's New?
RE: MSD Website was HEI
Re: Ideas on 455 Aircraft Engine.
chrome parts?
RE: who is running a holley or edelbrock?
Re: Ideas on 455 Aircraft Engine.
Re: 455 Project:  Aircraft Engine
Re: HEI: buy a "built" one or convert stock unit?
Re: Ideas on 455 Aircraft Engine.
Re: What's c-4? (was re: Chrome valve stem caps)
30,000 original mile '69 455? (Very long)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 21:54:38 -0600
From: Oldsmagnet <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Re: Custom Cutlass IROC.

>  I thought IROC stood for International Race of Champions

Its Really Only a Cam*ro....  :)
I Run Over Children...  :/

Actually, yes.  It ~is~ the Int'l Race Of Champions, but the cam*ro became the
most popular version.  The idea was to have hundreds (?) of identically 
prepared
vehicles, so that the race was determined ~only~ by driver's skill.  Great 
plan,
for whatever that's worth.  I guess for finding millions of identical cars, the
ch*vy was the obvious choice :)

However, the IROC circuit comes up for renewal every few years, and the Daytona
really didn't catch on very well.  I haven't followed circle track stuff all
that much, so I don't know which vehicles were used throughout history.  The
IROC cam*ro availble to the public was only a hopped up version of the car, but
nothing near the version used on the tracks.  It just stuck, for the mainstream
of public, as a sports car term...  The idea of an IROC Cutlass has always
appealed to me, but the fact that che*y had one earlier kinda loses it for
me...

- --
Oldsmagnet - Charley Buehner @ Sidney Montana |\      |-------|
mailto:buehner@lyrea.com To mail direct to me |/\|=|  |   |   |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner See my homepage |\ |=|  |   |   |
   \ | / =========================== \ | /    |<||=|  |   |   |
    \|/  List Removal and Guidelines  \|/     |/ |=|  |  / \  |
     V   ===========================   V      |\/|=|  | / | \ |
  http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner/listfaq.htm   |/      |___|___|

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 21:59:01 -0600
From: Oldsmagnet <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Re: drag strip question

Do you know if it's against
> the rules to play the cavalry charge with air horns while running down
> the track or staging lines.

Perhaps enterring the burnout box would be the appropriate place for it.  I
don't imagine it'd be considerred much of a distraction at the staging lanes.
Be honest, do you think ~anyone~ will hear it over the open exhaust that's most
likely sitting next door...  And if so, how much of a distraction would it
actually be?  Don't know about the NHRA legalities of it, but I'd probably shy
away from it.  The ~crowd pleasing~ idea is really great, but I don't know how
much of a rallye-cry air horns would be...  Now, if ~I~ end up racing the 
Rockit
~legally~ :) Kathy Mattea ~WILL~ be blasting up until the staging lane...  When
they make ya roll up the windows...  Maybe I'll mount a PA speaker out
somewhere....  Facing the spectator lane...  :)


- --
Oldsmagnet - Charley Buehner @ Sidney Montana |\      |-------|
mailto:buehner@lyrea.com To mail direct to me |/\|=|  |   |   |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner See my homepage |\ |=|  |   |   |
   \ | / =========================== \ | /    |<||=|  |   |   |
    \|/  List Removal and Guidelines  \|/     |/ |=|  |  / \  |
     V   ===========================   V      |\/|=|  | / | \ |
  http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner/listfaq.htm   |/      |___|___|

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 23:06:56 -0500
From: "Mark Tupper" <mtupper@palacenet.net>
Subject: Re: Custom Cutlass IROC.

>However, the IROC circuit comes up for renewal every few years,

Which kind of brings up an interesting point... I really don't know
for sure (and I'm probably wrong), but IROC as an organization
"might" have a problem with the use of IROC on a non-approved
automobile. I believe Ch*vy (and the others) were required to
license the name from IROC for those production cars. Much
like the Trans Am. It cost a few bucks for the privilege of the
name.

- -Mark Tupper    1987 442    (OCA 30666)
 mtupper@palacenet.net        http://www.cyberglyphs.com/442/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 23:55:34 -0400
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: 455 Project: Aircraft Engine

Barney,

Proving that there's nothing new under the sun, Oldsmobile actually adapted
it's then-new thinwall casting 330 V-8 to power a Cessna as a publicity
stunt in 1964 (the 455 is a taller-deck version of the small block 330).
The ad showing this plane, titled "Oldsmobile Jetfire Rocket V-8 Takes to
the Air", appeared in the Feb 1964 issue of Motor Trend.  The ad has a
small photo of the plane with the cowling off and it appears that the
engine was mounted "backwards" - it looks like the distributor is right
behind the prop.  Note that it also appears that they used some sort of
reduction gearbox on the prop, as the prop centerline is actually higher
than the intake manifold, with a gearbox connecting it to the crank flange.
The engine also appears to use a stock 64 air cleaner, which implies that
they also used the original carb (so much for inverted flight).  Radiators
were mounted on either side of the engine inside the cowling.  The ad also
identifies Test Pilot Dick Marsh and Chief Mechanic "Oz" Nelson.  The
plane's ID number is N3421U.

Have you looked into the mods required to adapt the big block Chevy engine
for aero use by Thunder Engines (or whatever they're called these days)?
I'd assume you'd want some sort of dry sump oiling system.  Would you plan
to use an aircraft carb, or will an automotive carb work?

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 00:05:52 -0400
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: '69 442 colors and stripes

Was Sebring yellow available on the '69? My paint code charts show it as a
'70
color, but also say that it was avail in '69. True?
____________

As others have noted, 70 was the first year that Sebring Yellow was
available on an Olds.  Color code 51 _was_ available in 1969 as Daytona
Yellow on the Corvette.  The same color was also called Saturn Yellow by
Buick in 1970.

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 00:01:54 -0400
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: MAYBE W-32?

Mark,

I have to agree with Kurt, the 1970 W-32 package included a 4bbl.  The
following is from the 1970 4-4-2 and W-Machines sales brochure (note that
the factory used 4-4-2 and not 442):

W-32 Cutlass Supreme Performance Package.  Available with Cutlass Supreme
SX package only.  Features a Quadrajet 4-bbl carburetor; along with the
455-cube, high-compression V-8...

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 00:12:37 -0400
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: Busting knuckles

What is the recommended method for busting the knuckles loose from the ball
joints?
___________

Paul,

You have two choices, the aforementioned "pickle fork", which basically
wedges the knucle from the ball joint with a few well-placed swings of a
two pound sledge, or (for the purists among us) a C-clamp type device which
presses the two apart. Trak Auto will let you borrow the pickle fork for
free.

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 00:07:25 -0400
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: 455 Motors

You could definitely order one in 1976...possibly in 1977 also.  Not in
1978, though.

Jason Adcock
_____________

The 403 was released in 1977 to replace the discontinued 455.

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 23:13:37 -0500
From: Shang <shang@wans.net>
Subject: Re: who is running a holley or edelbrock?

BIGJERMES@aol.com wrote:
>
> to all the guys on here running holleys and edelbrocks...   what all did you
> have to do to the choke?  linkages?  any other problems?  im wanting to put
> either a holley or edelbrock on my '72 olds 350.  its in a '78 cutlass, so i
> have a few vacuum lines, but i have eliminated a good many.  i am also 
running
> a 2004r, so ill need some sort of linkage to mate up with my tv cable (should
> be the same as running a th350, pretty much).  i need a lot of advise before
> dumping the cash.  thanks,
> jeremy


I am running a Holley 650 dbl pumper (List 4777) on a '70 350 with a
2004R. I used the factory Holley throttle bracket, which the linkage
bolted up to fine, but I did buy a Spectre (cheap) bracket to hold the
cables. I converted my Holley to electric choke, which is easier to deal
with and works better in my opinion.

Stephen Hoover
Dallas, Texas
'70 Supreme

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 21:21:33 +0000
From: Bob Blanchard <bob149@efortress.com>
Subject: need side mirror Id

   I'm looking for an ID on a side mirror on my '66 VC. It is a chrome mirror
and the post that ataches it to the door  has a cut-out in it so it looks
like
two posts. I haven't seen one like it in the catalogs I've got. It is not the
same as the one on the drivers door, so I don't know which one is original.
   I have a picture of it is anyone is good at IDing parts.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 21:26:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Pajak <jspajak@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Custom Cutlass IROC.

     Hey, how about naming it after the Sports Car Club of America
(SCCA) ?

SCCA   Some Cutlasses Come Alive   :)

Geez it's late.
==
"2 + 2 = 5 for sufficiently large values of 2"

John Pajak
Lexington Park, Maryland

Check out our cars, trucks and a whole lot more at
http://members.tripod.com/~JSPajak
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 21:30:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Pajak <jspajak@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Busting knuckles

     When using the "pickle fork", remember, don't take the ball joint
nuts completely off! Leave them threaded on about 6 turns. Then, when
the pickle fork separates the parts they won't fly all over the place!



==
"2 + 2 = 5 for sufficiently large values of 2"

John Pajak
Lexington Park, Maryland

Check out our cars, trucks and a whole lot more at
http://members.tripod.com/~JSPajak
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 22:39:44 -0600
From: "Igor T. '81 455DRB" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Re: who is running a holley or edelbrock?

- -----Original Message-----
From: BIGJERMES@aol.com <BIGJERMES@aol.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Monday, September 07, 1998 9:37 PM
Subject: who is running a holley or edelbrock?


>to all the guys on here running holleys and edelbrocks...   what all did
you
>have to do to the choke?  linkages?  any other problems?  im wanting to put
>either a holley or edelbrock on my '72 olds 350.  its in a '78 cutlass, so
i
>have a few vacuum lines, but i have eliminated a good many.  i am also
running
>a 2004r, so ill need some sort of linkage to mate up with my tv cable
(should
>be the same as running a th350, pretty much).  i need a lot of advise
before
>dumping the cash.  thanks,
>jeremy

First of all, why are you dumping your stock Q-jet.  A good rebuilt Q-jet
with correct jetting and distributor curve will work great with even
moderate street engines.  I run this on my new 455, and since I have a holly
I will try it in a few weeks or so and will let you know how it went.
Anyways, I installed a new Holly 600cfm with electric chocke on my friends
350 Chev.  Linkage is the same so it is the same as olds.  Since he had
headers and edelbrock performer intake (no provision for hot air chocke), he
went with electric chocke.  The accelerator cable is easy to hook up and the
kit with new carb comes with linkage to adapt if for TV cables.  If you have
a stock intake though, you will need an adapter for holly (I did this on my
Dodge van).  Then again your hook-ups are the same.  My holly is manual
chocke so I never even hooked it up.  If you have a hot air chocke holly and
don't/can't use it, then you can just take it out and set it on fully open
position (I am not sure how to do that).  As far as holly goes, there is
lots you can do with them, they are vary tunable and easy to do so.  I like
them, but I think that Q-jets are just fine.  Also, whether you get a holly,
new Q-jet or Edelbrock, get a carb with no emissions hook-ups (unless you
absolutley need it) so it will be easier to tune and set up.  Good luck.
Igor.

Igor Todorovic
1981 Delta 88 (455/Th400/3.23s)
1981 Regency (307/Th200R4/propane)
1981 Doge Maxivan (367/727/4.10s)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 22:46:57 -0600
From: "Igor T. '81 455DRB" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Cam Question

What is the highest lift I can go with on the cam in my '76 455 with stock
valvetrain.  I heard that .500lift is about all that can be put in, but I
would like to get a lunati bracket master II cam (i think that is the name)
and the exasut lift is .520lift.  I think that this cam would still be
decent on the street.  Can I do it with stock valvetrain or do I need to
modify and what.  Thanks.  There are detail on the engine and car in my 455
cam question post.  Igor.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 00:49:43 -0400
From: Todd Williams <todd@wvadventures.net>
Subject: 72 cutlass supreme

hey guys couple of ? for ya

1: want to put  Vinyl Top back on my car had one back then and i want one
on it now also what about the trim/molding that went around it is that hard
to find and or get some one point me in the right direction please


2:ok another thing is that trim thats above the doors may be called drip
moldeing but not sure is that hard get  and replaced not sure but by
looking at it looks like it welded on to the roof would like to replace it
if i can it sure is beated up and doesnt have that good shine it any more


and if someone can give me the paint codes for a 72 cutlass supreme... rite
now its painted baby poo yellow (arr yuk!!) looks real bad

thanx for your help

Todd
72 cutlass supreme

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 21:56:53 -0700
From: Greg Rollin <supercars@transport.com>
Subject: Re: Custom Cutlass IROC.

Oldsmagnet wrote:

> Actually, yes.  It ~is~ the Int'l Race Of Champions, but the cam*ro became 
the
> most popular version.  The idea was to have hundreds (?) of identically
prepared > vehicles, so that the race was determined ~only~ by driver's skill.
Great plan, > for whatever that's worth.  I guess for finding millions of
identical cars, the > ch*vy was the obvious choice :) > > However, the IROC
circuit comes up for renewal every few years, and the Daytona > really didn't
catch on very well.  I haven't followed circle track stuff all > that much, so 
I
don't know which vehicles were used throughout history.  The > IROC cam*ro
availble to the public was only a hopped up version of the car, but > nothing
near the version used on the tracks.  It just stuck, for the mainstream > of
public, as a sports car term...  The idea of an IROC Cutlass has always >
appealed to me, but the fact that che*y had one earlier kinda loses it for >
me... > > --

Although I'm no expert on the IROC series, I believe the first cars used in 
this
series were identically prepped/modified (and real) Porsche 911's.  Back then
they raced on more road courses which gave a better picture of the drivers
skill.  As opposed to the Ch*vy and D*dg* series which are run more often on
ovals.  These oval "races" seem to rely more on who you can buddy-up with than
any actual driving skill.  The IROC series on ovals is in my opinion, more of a
parade than a race. And that with the now lacking of true "international"
participants, I feel they should change the name of the series to: 
B.O.R.I.N.G.

.........Just my opinion.......


Greg Rollin
Supercars Unlimited (Where Cutlass/4-4-2 is ALL we do!) 503-244-8249
http://www.supercarsunlimited.com
E-mail: supercars@transport.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 01:44:36 -0400
From: Don Sowers <dstaxpro@lex.infi.net>
Subject: Re: Decal Part #, Anyone?

Doug Newman wrote:
>
> Thanks to everybody that replied to my question.  I knew SOMEBODY out
> there would know.  :-)

Isn't it amazing what people on this list know about Oldsmobiles?  You
can learn a lot just lurking around in the bushes.   :)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 01:42:04 EDT
From: Stakin@aol.com
Subject: Re: Oil Pump Access?

, you write:

<<  was wondering if anyone out there ever tried to gain access to the oil
 pump in an 70-72 Olds 442 while the motor was in the car. Is it possible to
 drop the pan and gain access to the oil pump while the motor is in the
 car??

 I HAVE THE MONDELLO 7-QUART PAN WITH THE MONDELLO STUDS AND STRAPS ON THE
 MAIN CAPS. IT IS AN OLDS 455. >>

I havent  done that in a long while. When I had to do this I didnt have the
studs and staps although I was running a Toro pan. I recall  using several
profane words and telling my buddy " If I ever have to do this again the motor
is just coming out ! " That being said ,  It can be done but .......
consider pulling the motor  < G>

Joe Stackman

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 00:08:15 -0600
From: "Kevin Meredith" <bkmeredith@telusplanet.net>
Subject: 82 Cutlass Steering Wheels

I recently picked up two Oldsmobile sport steering wheels at a
Pick-Your-Part recycler.  I don't know, however, which, if any is the
correct wheel for my 82' Cutlass and maybe someone in Olds List-land could
respond privately to my question.

One wheel is a three-spoke aluminum out of an 81 Cutlass. Has the holes in
the aluminum like my 4 spoke for my 70. The other is a two spoke leather
(most of it gone) wrapped wheel which came out of an 84 Cutlass.  The spokes
are not aluminum but black metal. Both wheels have visible cracks and are
maroon in color.  They both match my 82's interior color...lucky me.

Thanks in advance for any info.

Kevin
mailto:bkmeredith@telusplanet.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 02:27:07 EDT
From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Subject: Re: ? 1972 W-29?

In a message dated 98-09-07 12:14:29 EDT, you write:

<<  have an opporrtunity to go look at a 1972 442 W-29 4-Speed?

 I checked the FAQ sites and I could find no such listing for a 442.  The
 owner claims that only 950 such cars were manufactured.

 If you have info for verification or a opinion on the subject, please post
 responce.

 Big Mac in St. Jo. MI >>

W-29 is the option code for the 442 in 1972.  So he is advertising a 442 4
speed.  There were more that 950 cars made.   Only thing the vin can tell you
is if it is a big block or small block car.  If need more info.  email me
direct and I can help.

W MACHINES (Mark Prince)
1972 442 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 02:30:57 EDT
From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Subject: Re: drag strip question

In a message dated 98-09-07 19:02:43 EDT, you write:

<< I have a question for you drag strip guys. Do you know if it's against
 the rules to play the cavalry charge with air horns while running down
 the track or staging lines.
                                    Thanks     Butch  68  442  post >>
NOPE, go ahead and make some noise. Just dont interfere with the track by
dropping oil or antifreeze and such

W MACHINES

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 23:30:13 +0000
From: Bob Blanchard <bob149@efortress.com>
Subject: Re: Oil Pump Access?

>
>  was wondering if anyone out there ever tried to gain access to the oil
> pump in an 70-72 Olds 442 while the motor was in the car. Is it possible to
> drop the pan and gain access to the oil pump while the motor is in the
> car??
>

I'm not sure about the aftermarket straps and pan, but with a normal pan,
just
put the #1 cylinder at TDC (do not skip this step) remove the flex plate cover
 and lift the engine about 2-3 inches of its mounts and the pan slides
right out.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 02:40:18 EDT
From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Subject: Re: MAYBE W-32?

In a message dated 98-09-08 00:26:37 EDT, you write:

<< I have to agree with Kurt, the 1970 W-32 package included a 4bbl.  The
 following is from the 1970 4-4-2 and W-Machines sales brochure (note that
 the factory used 4-4-2 and not 442):

 W-32 Cutlass Supreme Performance Package.  Available with Cutlass Supreme
 SX package only.  Features a Quadrajet 4-bbl carburetor; along with the
 455-cube, high-compression V-8...

 Joe Padavano
 padavano.joe@orbital.com >>

Well Joe, the Oldsmobile F85,442,Cutlass,Rallye 350 Specification and Feature
Manual says this
SX Conversion W-32, horse power at rpm   320 at 4200
torque at rpm   500 at 2400
compression 10.25
carburetor barrels (no.)   2
Fuel recommended  Premium

W MACHINES (Mark Prince)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 06:35:14 -0400
From: "B. Vosburgh" <bob442@svic.net>
Subject: drag strip

It  seems that I always have to play catch up when we run , and I
thought that it would be neet to play the charge as I am bearing down on
the chevy and ford guys., I would never play it against another olds
guy, ; Besides, the olds might be chasing me.Dont want to start trouble,
just have some fun.
             Butch  68  442  post

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 07:44:23 -0500
From: "Kijowski, Stan" <SKIJOWSKI@midland.com>
Subject: RE: paging stan

sorry i have not been available. been out of town since friday night. i'll
call you today

> ----------
> From: 	OldsGuyGA@aol.com[SMTP:OldsGuyGA@aol.com]
> Reply To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Sent: 	Monday, September 07, 1998 9:54 PM
> To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: 	paging stan
>
> paging stan...i have the olds wire harness's in atl,ga    jeff...
>
> call me.........
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:03:19 -0400
From: "Gregory Zimmerman" <zimmermangm@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: who is running a holley or edelbrock?

I'm running an  Edelbrock performer 600cfm on my '71 350.  Runs great,
super easy to change jets (takes 30 seconds), jet changes take 5
minutes.  No gaskets below fuel line on carb.  Electric choke only
needs a wire that has power with the ignition switch.  The ground goes
right to the carb mounting bolt.  NO problems in winter starting, just
need to adjust it from summer to winter.

I'd recommend it.

I also got Edelbrocks O2 sensor installed to help fiddle with the
jetting.  Not far from stock adjustments though.

the book that comes with the carb is great and tells you how to tune
all aspects of the carb.

- -greg

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:00:11 -0400
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: MAYBE W-32?

Well Joe, the Oldsmobile F85,442,Cutlass,Rallye 350 Specification and
Feature
Manual says this
SX Conversion W-32, horse power at rpm   320 at 4200
torque at rpm   500 at 2400
compression 10.25
carburetor barrels (no.)   2
Fuel recommended  Premium

W MACHINES (Mark Prince)
___________

I thought the 320 HP motor was the base motor for the _SX_ package, but the
W-32 added the 365 HP 4bbl motor (essentially the base 442 motor).  Wasn't
there some discussion on the list a while back about a mid-year change in
SX motors?  Bob Barry, are you out there?

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:57:34 -0400
From: "Gregory Zimmerman" <zimmermangm@email.msn.com>
Subject: anyone running an MSD billet distributor?

If anyone is using one, please tell me your experiences with it.

thanks,
greg

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:01:06 -0400
From: "Gregory Zimmerman" <zimmermangm@email.msn.com>
Subject: HEI: buy a "built" one or convert stock unit?

I'm thinking of getting an HEI to replace my Mallory Unilite.  Summit
has a Carburetor shop HEI for $280.  Would I be better off getting one
of those, or get a $100 parts store rebuilt and put in an MSD coil
($70), and MSD module ($70), and adjustable advance kit ($5)?  Summit
also makes a coil that is only $36.  I have not idea what these need
to run good.

I have a MSD-6AL, and blaster coil also.

- -greg

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:56:05 EDT
From: RICH6986@aol.com
Subject: where is the buzzer at help??

the buzzer that goes off when you leave your lights on where is it located
under dash? where   TIA    Rich          oh its an 85 cutlass supreme V-6 3.8

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:22:53 -0500
From: "Johnson, Sam" <SAJOHNSON@usds.com>
Subject: RE: buy a "built" one or convert stock unit?

Greg that's is what I did to my distributor.  I got a stock rebuild for $100
big ones and got the MSD Module and Coil, (used the stock vacuum canister
though, on account I don't anything about it anyway).  It made a big
difference too. I am very pleased with the outcome and would not have done
it any other way.  If you decide to go this rout let me know what happens.

Also MSD has a web-site too  http://www.msd.com <http://www.msd.com>


======================
Sam E. Johnson, JR.
>  <mailto:Cutlass403@ameritech.net> Cutlass403@ameritech.net
>1971 Cutlass S 455
>Westside! Chitown IL
19 Wins 13 Losses
======================


	-----Original Message-----
	From:	Gregory Zimmerman [SMTP:zimmermangm@email.msn.com]
	Sent:	Tuesday, September 08, 1998 10:01 AM
	To:	Olds list
	Subject:	HEI: buy a "built" one or convert stock unit?

	I'm thinking of getting an HEI to replace my Mallory Unilite.
Summit
	has a Carburetor shop HEI for $280.  Would I be better off getting
one
	of those, or get a $100 parts store rebuilt and put in an MSD coil
	($70), and MSD module ($70), and adjustable advance kit ($5)?
Summit
	also makes a coil that is only $36.  I have not idea what these need
	to run good.

	I have a MSD-6AL, and blaster coil also.

	-greg


	

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 12:27:07 EDT
From: OldsGuyGA@aol.com
Subject: Re: paging stan

found the msg   ame home for lunch...

thanks for the business...jeff....

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 12:34:18 -0400
From: "Weaver, Stanleigh G" <Stanleigh.Weaver@PHL.Boeing.com>
Subject: RE: paging stan

Here I am...
Was off the list for awhile
Who was paging me??
stan

> ----------
> From: 	OldsGuyGA@aol.com[SMTP:OldsGuyGA@aol.com]
> Sent: 	Tuesday, September 08, 1998 12:27 PM
> To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: 	Re: paging stan
>
> found the msg   ame home for lunch...
>
> thanks for the business...jeff....
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 12:32:38 -0000
From: "RANDY A GEISEL" <RANDYGEISEL@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: anyone running an MSD billet distributor?

>If anyone is using one, please tell me your experiences with it.
>
>thanks,
>greg
>
Greg, I'm running the whole MSD set up on a 72 350. No problems so far.

Randy

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:49:53 -0500 (CDT)
From: George <cutlass@one.camd.lsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Misc replies / SHOCKS

> >NAL carries Monroe. Their price was about $15 each for gas shocks for
> my 86. Don't know if they carry shocks for the older cars.....I hope
> they do. I need a set for my 65 Delta 88, but that's a different story.

AutoZone carries the same shocks for 9.99 a piece. They were matching the
numbers of the old ones on my car though that may not mean much. Just
thouhgt that is worth sharing. You can get a whole bunch of good new and
rebuilt parts still at the discount stores. (For ex. waterpump rebuilt
for 15 bucks!)
George

- --------------------------------------------------------------
'68 Cuttlass S Conv.
http://estimator.camd.lsu.edu/georg/sparetime/olds.html
- --------------------------------------------------------------

On Sat, 5 Sep 1998, John Pajak wrote:

> **********
> >Wish I could find those adapters myself!!!!! Remember the 65 88
> mentioned above. I'd like to run 15" wheels but don't want to give up
> the way-cool 2 bar wire spinner caps. I know they make the adapters
> for putting 15" caps on 16" wheels (I have a set of those on my
> Suburban). I have asked around but the 15" to 14" adapters don't seem
> to exist......I hope I'm wrong about that!
>
> Everett wrote:
>
> As for using your 14" wheel covers on 15" wheels, I know a guy who did
> that with his 1960 S-88 Conv.  He got a set of 15" trim rings and
> attached his wheel covers to the trim rings. I am not exactly sure how
> he attached them but it worked well. If you need further info let me
> know.
>
> **********
> Do tell! I'm sure many would like to know. If you could get this info
> and post it to the list I would be one happy camper :)
>
>
> ==
> "2 + 2 = 5 for sufficiently large values of 2"
>
> John Pajak
> Lexington Park, Maryland
>
> Check out our cars, trucks and a whole lot more at
> http://members.tripod.com/~JSPajak
> _________________________________________________________
> DO YOU YAHOO!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 12:00:40 -0500 (CDT)
From: George <cutlass@one.camd.lsu.edu>
Subject: Re: found around town

> hello to all,
>
> While driving around town today looking for a new car for the wife I found 2
> very nice
> Cutlasses. One is a 65 f-85, very pretty car, light blue metallic with white
> int. extra clean. The second one I really wish I had the money for. It is a
> 70,442. black with white stripes. White interior. absolutely wicked looking
> and priced at $13,000.oops it's a convertible too.

Kevin,
13 k is for sure less then most new cars... just convince your wife!
George
- --------------------------------------------------------------
'68 Cuttlass S Conv.
http://estimator.camd.lsu.edu/georg/sparetime/olds.html
- --------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:03:56 -0000
From: "RANDY A GEISEL" <RANDYGEISEL@prodigy.net>
Subject: MSD Website was HEI

>
>Also MSD has a web-site too  http://www.msd.com

The correct address is www.msdignition.com , if you go to the above address
you end up at Microtechnologies site.

Randy

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:11:15 EDT
From: CRuper1@aol.com
Subject: Re: 80's G-Body Part Needed.

In a message dated 9/6/98 11:18:49 PM EST, super442@yahoo.com writes:

<<

 > Jason Adcock wrote:

 Obviously, he's not trying to restore this Hurst?  All of them had
 A/C, didn't they?  Just curious...

 ----I've never seen one without A/C...now I'm curious too!!Anybody out
 there EVER seen a G-body without A/C?

  >>

Yep, mine has no A/C in it.  Unless you consider the 2-60 A/C, that is two
windows down, 60 miles per hour.  :-)

Chris Ruper

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:15:56 EDT
From: CRuper1@aol.com
Subject: Re: 80's G-Body Part Needed.

In a message dated 9/7/98 1:47:28 AM EST, buehner@lyrea.com writes:

<< > No...  It's been his since day one..  <G> But like I mentioned, it's
 > "Pro-Street" meaning, 425 Bored over, Mondello Heads, ported and matched

 WHOA!!!!!!!!!!!  Stop right there!  Yes, indeed these cars ~did~ come with
 non-AC versions.  But, the AC box and heater box were both quite different.
The
 non-AC'd cars will ~not~ accept a big block.  The heater core-only box takes
up
 the space that would otherwise be occupied by a valve cover...   If mods are
 desired, he could butcher things to fit, but he could do that with the AC
box.
 I think the heater box was metal, too.  AC version is all fiberglass.
Lighter.

 BTW, I personally ~saw~ one of these non-AC cars.  An 80 W30, no less.
WITHOUT
 AC!!!  Go figure :(

 --
 Oldsmagnet - Charley Buehner >>

Hmmmm..., Ok, I'm going to have to check into this.  Are you sure a non-A/C
car won't fit a Big Block?  That would make my intended swap a butcher job to
get it to fit ('70 455 into an '81 Cutlass).  I haven't heard this before.
Guess I'll have to do some measuring.  I'll have to look at the heater box.  I
can't remember what the box is made of (there is a metal plate/cover going
over the top of things).

Chris Ruper

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 13:23:34 -0400
From: "Thomas Q. Bartee" <tbartee@mitre.org>
Subject: Re: 80's G-Body Part Needed.

Don't know if Olds did anything similar but I have a friend who owned a
Buick Regal (either a '79 or '80) with no A/C and a manual transmission
with Hurst shifter, factory installed (car was a special order).


At 01:11 PM 9/8/98 -0400, you wrote:
>In a message dated 9/6/98 11:18:49 PM EST, super442@yahoo.com writes:
>
><<
>
> > Jason Adcock wrote:
>
> Obviously, he's not trying to restore this Hurst?  All of them had
> A/C, didn't they?  Just curious...
>
> ----I've never seen one without A/C...now I'm curious too!!Anybody out
> there EVER seen a G-body without A/C?
>
>  >>
>
>Yep, mine has no A/C in it.  Unless you consider the 2-60 A/C, that is two
>windows down, 60 miles per hour.  :-)
>
>Chris Ruper
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:29:18 EDT
From: KarlAune@aol.com
Subject: Ideas on 455 Aircraft Engine.

In a message dated 98-09-07 14:58:27 EDT, you write:

<< In order to adapt the Stearman to water-cooled V-8 power you will have
 to make modifications to the airframe. The Olds 455 is longer and
 heavier than the Continental radial. Weight and balance will be FUBAR.
 Will you move the firewall back? Where will you put the radiator?
 Probably you can forget aerobatic and inverted flight. >>

Also notable are comments about gear reduction and carburetion.

((Also I would like to know what Lou Biggs meant about need for dual ignition
and dual plugs....))

Karl thinks this plan can work, WITH acrobatics.

But gear reduction will be necessary.

Karl's odd thoughts;

1) Standard carburetion is out. With carburetion you would have to be VERY
careful in turning! Not recommendable from a safety standpoint.

So; fuel injection!
A (relatively well pressurized) FI system should allow good fuel flow in
extreme acrobatic situations. Naturally, this will require aftermarket parts
or someone adventurous like my friend Mr. Biggs out east.

BTW; please cut up expendable cyl heads like "J"s or such.

Compression should not matter in this application.

Fuel economy is still a factor (right? Do planes use gas or alcohol?) how
about a supercharger?
A forced-air-intake system should be ideal for higher altitude flight!

Whoops!
Karl-ism!
Superchargers mount atop carburetors.
Are they available in throttle-body models?

If you do not want to use gear reducer;
You need to manipulate your torque curve to peak at relatively low RPM.
This will require a low CFM air induction system and small exhaust primaries
(I think), somewhere around 1.5" or less. Calculations another day. Late for
me.
Tuning the power band for low RPM only could have many benefits. But if I
understand correctly, WOT needs to be what, 1800 RPM??

Isn't that the idle speed of some 455's?

Anyway.

Of course an HEI ignition is NECESSARY. Karl imagines that the wide plug gap
should be especially advantageous in the realm of high-G acrobatics.

Oil.
That is a GOOD question.
Crank should not become submerged or immersed.
Crank scrapers or windage tray required.
BUT.....
What if the question of oil sloshing this way and that could be "engineered
out"?
Such that prolonged upside-down flight can be possible!

(Knew that would get your attention...)

How about a LOW-CAPACITY oiling system?

(If you are getting woozy, best turn off the computer and lie down now!)

Think about this..... a NO SUMP oiling system!
(WHoops, Karl's getting too far out on this trip!)

No! Seriously.
Granted many moving parts to require oil.
But excess oil on crank bad.
(mebbe not so severe at low-RPM but that is another thread)
So how to keep oil from sloshing onto crank in 3-G dive?
EXTERNAL oil reservoir and pump!

(Karl is spending Barney's money pretty freely now!)

If you use low-pressure collectors at oiling perimiters (valve covers,
traditional location of oil pan, et alii) made of steel tubing (or some such)
leading to a pump reservoir and re-injection apparatus, you circumvent the oil
problem.

Cooling could be left alone, but radiator selection is key here.

Oooh.
I feel dizzy.

Mebbe I should put the lid back on the carb cleaner!
I just un-seized the pover piston on the 2gv.
And I never suspected that it was frozen!

Cool!

Good luck!
And guys?
As always I welcome your criticism.
(preparing to cower)

SOM
&KA

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:29:16 EDT
From: KarlAune@aol.com
Subject: Re: The General's store

In a message dated 98-09-07 23:39:13 EDT, you write:

<< lansing,IL  >>

Really???

I think someone actually mentioned that place to me about a year or so ago.
Something about a place that had *EVERYTHING*.

I took that with a salt mine.

Who's gonna have everything?

Mebbe worth a peek.
Mebbe Friday morning after work....

SOM
&KA

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 10:15:48 -0700
From: Kerry Kroger <kerryk@MCI2000.com>
Subject: Re: 80's G-Body Part Needed.

It was available but doubt too many were ordered that way  during that time
frame when the automatic was standard...kk
- -----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Q. Bartee <tbartee@mitre.org>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Tuesday, September 08, 1998 10:24 AM
Subject: Re: 80's G-Body Part Needed.


>Don't know if Olds did anything similar but I have a friend who owned a
>Buick Regal (either a '79 or '80) with no A/C and a manual transmission
>with Hurst shifter, factory installed (car was a special order).

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:34:05 EDT
From: KarlAune@aol.com
Subject: Re: Misc replies / SHOCKS

In a message dated 98-09-08 12:52:51 EDT, you write:

<< > >NAL carries Monroe. Their price was about $15 each for gas shocks for
 > my 86. Don't know if they carry shocks for the older cars.....I hope
 > they do. I need a set for my 65 Delta 88, but that's a different story.

 AutoZone carries the same shocks for 9.99 a piece. >>

Yah.
Karl may opt for Sens-a-trac set.
'specially for that "front end did not move" recommendation.
Ya see, I will be using p225/70r15s in front and they may well prove to be too
large.
But we'll see.
Actually am getting a set of 4 coil springs for $142 and change.
Not bad at all!

Thanks for the input all!

SOM
&KA

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 12:44:42 -0400
From: "Gregory Zimmerman" <zimmermangm@email.msn.com>
Subject: arcing problem and spark plugs readings

I tore down my Mallory dist. before I commit to a new one.  I was
turning the engine over to get top dead center on #1 when I noticed
that sparks jump from the center of my cap to the edges where the
spark plugs contacts are (All on the underside of the cap).  That's a
good 2 1/2" jump.  I thought I remember reading somewhere that the
spark shouldn't jump like that.

Maybe I'm getting arcing inside the cap that is causing my rough
running.  the spark could be jumping right over the rotor to random
cylinders.

I'm getting quite a few "timing gun hits" at the 90 degree mark on my
balancer.

How can I fix this?  I have a new cap and rotor and used silicone
grease on the spark plugs boots.

MSD-6AL, Taylor 8mm wires, Mallory Unilite, Blaster 2 coil.

also, the AC Delco R46-S (stock type) plugs have white/grey
electrodes, the center ceramic part is brown/grey, and surrounding
metal of the plugs is black.  What does that mean?

- -greg

Thanks in advance.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:42:41 EDT
From: SpeedCom@aol.com
Subject: Re: Ideas on 455 Aircraft Engine.

In a message dated 9/8/98
 12:<BR31:<BR17 PM Central Daylight Tim, KarlAune@aol.com writes:

> ((Also I would like to know what Lou Biggs meant about need for dual
ignition
>  and dual plugs....))

Interesting that the issue of dual ignition always comes up in auto
conversions. If you check "incident reports" it is plain that most engine out
forced landings are for ignition problems.

Statistically, a single coil/points ignition system is more relible than two
magnetos. The value of the magnetos is not reliability, but rather than they
need no batteries. The reason for having two...well, you can guess it... based
upon statistical reliability, our aero engines would be too unreliable with
only one magneto. :-)

So, forget dual ignition and keep the one standard one very well maintained
(use conventional; you are not turning fast enough to need any electronic
ignition, and conventional almost *never* experience catastrophic failure).

I expect that the introduction of another hole in the head (each cylinder),
even for the little 10mm plugs, would have a greater negative effect on the
MTBF than reducing from two to one ignition system.

Oh, yes, keep a separate battery for ignition only with a change-over switch.

All the above is fro conversations with Steve Wittman while writing his V8
conversion manual. I am not an expert and neither did he claim to be...but
Steve knew a lot of smoke on a lot of subjects (unfortunately for him and
Dorothy, one of those subjects was *not* how to stick synthetic fabric to
wooden wing structure :-(

Cheeres/Carron

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 13:44:33 -0400
From: tchurchill@draper.com (Timothy A. Churchill)
Subject: I'm Back!  What's New?

Greetings, All!

Just got back from two weeks on Cape Cod... other than a little rain one
morning from what was left of Hurricane Bonnie, the weather was great.

Not too many Olds sightings... an 88 or 98 convertible, early 70's vintage,
spotted coming the other way on the highway, top up, in nice shape.

And the last night we were there, a guy was cruising the 1/4 mile stretch
that comprises downtown Chatham, Mass., in a black '67 Supreme.  I tried to
get the gentleman's attention, seeing how it was a '67 'n' all; but he was
too busy trying to act cool driving back & forth & revving his engine on a
street filled with tourists, quaint art studios and candy shops to notice my
attempts at conversation :)  It had a nice 20 ft. paint job, a free flow
exhaust and I *think* I saw ladder bars slapped on... at least, some
yellow-colored aftermarket pieces were hanging off the rear end.

Now, I'm only poking gentle fun at his driving style and aftermarket mods.
It looked like a fairly young kid driving, and we've all been there.  Or
are there right now :).  And besides,  I'm really glad to see the kid had
some taste as to his choice of ride.

Anyhoo, what'd I miss?



Tim Churchill        OCA #30327           Framingham, MA
- ------------------------------------------------------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 12:46:11 -0500
From: "Johnson, Sam" <SAJOHNSON@usds.com>
Subject: RE: MSD Website was HEI

Thanks Randy for the correction.
======================
Sam E. Johnson, JR.
>  <mailto:Cutlass403@ameritech.net> Cutlass403@ameritech.net
>1971 Cutlass S 455
>Westside! Chitown IL
19 Wins 13 Losses
======================


	-----Original Message-----
	From:	RANDY A GEISEL [SMTP:RANDYGEISEL@prodigy.net]
	Sent:	Tuesday, September 08, 1998 8:04 AM
	To:	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
	Subject:	MSD Website was HEI


	>
	>Also MSD has a web-site too  http://www.msd.com

	The correct address is www.msdignition.com , if you go to the above
address
	you end up at Microtechnologies site.

	Randy

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 10:27:40 -0700
From: Kerry Kroger <kerryk@MCI2000.com>
Subject: Re: Ideas on 455 Aircraft Engine.

the EFI would be vastly superior to carbs then there is the RPM thing
the speed is prop speed not necessarily crank speed the IGN would be better
served by magnetos preferably dual for redundancy the plugs will need to be
like bosch with screw on plug wires eyelet held with a nut dual plugs are
not necessary but dual IGN systems yes this leaves oiling DRYSUMP is the
only way to fly this makes aerobatics possible without loss of lube leaving
only weight and balance I believe the 455 is lighter than the continental
radial that radial is huge this brings me to mounts that is a toughie how do
you mount a v8 in place of a radial? then we arrive at cooling well most
aircraft engines these days are liquid cooled so there you go. supercharging
is a great idea but turbos are superior on aircraft and have been used on a
lot of em
good luck and have fun just make sure you fly enough mistakes high.....kk

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:46:00 -0400
From: olds@interconti.com
Subject: chrome parts?

         Just wondering if anyone has found a good hidden place
         to get parts.  I am looking for the lower chrome for a
         70 cutlass supreme and can't find a junk yard that has
         any.  I've checked most web sites - has anyone found a
         good parts place that is not on the web???

         Thanks,
         SB  olds@interconti.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 98 12:52:10 -0500
From: Jonathan Morris <jmorris@po.okc.cc.ok.us>
Subject: RE: who is running a holley or edelbrock?

The only major problem I've seen with installing an edelbrock carb
was that the accelerator linkage on the carb wouoldn't clear the
runners on the edelbrock performer intake. I run an edelbrock
performer rpm intake now and the carb has no problems clearing it
or the stock intake.

Jon
72 Cutlass Suprem


>===== Original Message From oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca =====
>to all the guys on here running holleys and edelbrocks...   what all did you
>have to do to the choke?  linkages?  any other problems?  im wanting to put
>either a holley or edelbrock on my '72 olds 350.  its in a '78 cutlass, so i
>have a few vacuum lines, but i have eliminated a good many.  i am also
running
>a 2004r, so ill need some sort of linkage to mate up with my tv cable (should
>be the same as running a th350, pretty much).  i need a lot of advise before
>dumping the cash.  thanks,
>jeremy

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:00:52 -0400
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: Ideas on 455 Aircraft Engine.

I expect that the introduction of another hole in the head (each cylinder),
even for the little 10mm plugs, would have a greater negative effect on the
MTBF than reducing from two to one ignition system.
______________

I'd guess that the main ignition failure source is not the plugs or even
the distributor, but the related electronics.  Note that most forms of
racing use redundant ignition modules and coils with a driver controlled
switch, but single plugs and distributor.  This would be trivial to
implement.  Of course, a distributorless system could also be implemented
pretty easily as well.

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:10:47 EDT
From: GChris1511@aol.com
Subject: Re: 455 Project:  Aircraft Engine

Good luck on the V8 swap in the plane.  I believe even that "Orenda Engine"
that I could not remember the name of last night has a reduction unit built
in.  I don't know enough about power curves on V8s to begin to comment on your
plans.  I have only rebuilt two basket cases of FAA certified planes one of
which I changed from nose wheel to conventional along the way.  They were
expensive and time consuming enough.  I would lean on the info offered from
the person who wrote you about his articles on V8s in air craft with Mr.
Whitman, who died because the glue used on his homebuilt failed.  When it
comes to aircraft engineering its the little things that kill.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 13:21:27 -0500
From: JC Fredenburg <drolds@geocities.com>
Subject: Re: HEI: buy a "built" one or convert stock unit?

It depends on you application,
Mine is a 69 W-31 355 with the preformer RPM Package, headers, TH 350,3500
stall, 3.91 rear, 10.5:1 compression ect......
I Have an MSD 6AL, STOCK coil, recurved/rebuilt STOCK HEI, NO vacuum
advance, new pickup coil, cap and rotor, and it does fine up to about 7300
RPM ( I WOULD BE INSANE TO REV IT OVER THAT!)...I payed about $260.00 for
the whole setup including the MSD 6AL.

$20.00 WORKING Bone Yard HEI, $30.00 Cap & Rotor, $15.00 Wells P/U coil,
$35.00 for the recurve/rebuild @ local speed shop (including advance kit,
shims, seals, vacuum advance removal bracket, and bead blasting the
housing), and $160.00 for the 6AL.
Works great not a problem the racing season.




At 11:01 AM 9/8/98 -0400, you wrote:
>I'm thinking of getting an HEI to replace my Mallory Unilite.  Summit
>has a Carburetor shop HEI for $280.  Would I be better off getting one
>of those, or get a $100 parts store rebuilt and put in an MSD coil
>($70), and MSD module ($70), and adjustable advance kit ($5)?  Summit
>also makes a coil that is only $36.  I have not idea what these need
>to run good.
>
>I have a MSD-6AL, and blaster coil also.
>
>-greg
>
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:30:16 EDT
From: SpeedCom@aol.com
Subject: Re: Ideas on 455 Aircraft Engine.

In a message dated 9/8/98
 1:<BR06:<BR29 PM Central Daylight Time, Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM writes:

> I expect that the introduction of another hole in the head (each cylinder),
>  even for the little 10mm plugs, would have a greater negative effect on the
>  MTBF than reducing from two to one ignition system.
>  ______________
>
>  I'd guess that the main ignition failure source is not the plugs or even
>  the distributor, but the related electronics.  Note that most forms of
>  racing use redundant ignition modules and coils with a driver controlled
>  switch, but single plugs and distributor.  This would be trivial to
>  implement.  Of course, a distributorless system could also be implemented
>  pretty easily as well.

Absolutely, Joe,

It would be easy to do, but counterproductive. I was trying to make a
different point, i.e. that none of this is necessary or even useful. At the
RPM we are talking (torque peak, maximum) a standard point-coil system is *the
most reliable*.

Aircraft applications are just about dead center between racing (rebuild it
every week) and automotive (fix it when it breaks). If you are flying behind
it, you want the stone-simplest system that meets all the performance
criteria, then you keep an inspection/maintenance program that makes sure it
stays alive (and so do you :-)

We all have a tendency to want things to be the latest and greatest, but in
this application, the "old and proven" makes it easier to keep your a*s :-)

Cheers/Carron

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:42:07 EDT
From: JonKrisInc@aol.com
Subject: Re: What's c-4? (was re: Chrome valve stem caps)

In a message dated 98-09-04 23:00:42 EDT, you write:

<< with any
 luck a delta team can rescue the valve stem caps prior to the air
 engagment...kk >>

Uh....would that Delta taem be an 88 or 98?
Bruce
Delta 88 conv.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:19:49 -0600
From: "B. Sanders" <blaines@strata3d.com>
Subject: 30,000 original mile '69 455? (Very long)

List,

Last year I acquired a 455 out of a '69 98.  This car had what I believe to
be 36,000 original miles on it.  Some of the reasons I believe this are
because it had the original cloth bench interior that was immaculate -- just
like brand new.  The rest of the car was also brand-new in appearance, and
the papers in the glove box indicated that the last time the car was
registered and inspected was in '79 (the license plate tags confirmed this)
and that it only had 29,000 miles on it at that time.  Of course, the
odometer is what gave me the 36,000 number.  I don't recall, but I believe
the odometer in a '69 98 has place for 7 digits (so it would go to 999,999.9
miles before rolling over), which would prove my theory.  Can anyone verify
this for me?  After cleaning up the engine, I have found further evidence to
support this:

1)  The engine is still the original red 455 color.  The air cleaner looks
like it was just painted about 30,000 miles ago, and the decal is still
mostly intact.  It's pretty well accepted that 455's were painted red until
about mid-'69 when they changed to blue, correct?
2)  There was only about 30,000 miles worth of grease on the motor... not
much at all.
3)  Has original AC Plugs that look like brand new.
4)  Every bolt turns out easily, and not a single one has wrench marks on
it.
5)  The exhaust manifolds look brand new.  No rust on them.  I took the
cross -over pipe off last night, and the bolts that thread into the
manifolds broke loose with no more than 10 lbs. of force -- and this without
WD-40!  And the bolts look like brand new.  No rust whatsoever.  The
cross-over pipe has only very minimal carbon deposits inside, and the
brackets look almost new, too.  No rust on this pipe at all, inside or out.
6)  The water pump was not put on with the modern colored silicones.  It was
put on with clear silicone.  (does anyone know what color silicone GM used
in the late 60's early 70's?)
7)  The original A/C condenser works fine and the A/C system was fully
charged and operational when the engine was removed from the car.
8)  Looks like the only things that might have been changed on the engine
are hoses and spark plug wires, and the oil. Some of the hoses may have been
original, too, as well as the spark plugs, but I don't know now, because I
threw them away without thinking (doh!)
9)  The oil fill tube sticker, though very brittle, is still intact
(partially covered with oil), and is still legible.  (Was the sticker code
section taken out of the FAQ?  I can't seem to find it there any more...)

There is only ONE hint that might suggest that this is not an all-original,
unmolested engine:  The passenger side head doesn't have any numbers stamped
on the little pad up front.  I don't recall what numbers are supposed to be
there, but there's nothing.  Is it possible that the assembly line person at
the factory was careless or simply missed this motor?  Or would it more
likely be that it was a GM crate replacement motor?  Or that the head was
maybe replaced under warranty or something?  We all know that quality
control wasn't always what it was supposed to be back then...

I haven't taken off the heads yet to see what shape the cylinders are in,
but I'll be surprised if there's any ridge on them whatsoever.  I'm almost
expecting to see some cross-hatching still.  None of the spark plugs were
covered with oil, so I know the rings are still in great shape and it's not
burning any oil.  If it were burning any oil, the cross-over pipe would also
have been coated with it.

I'm planning on putting this engine in my '72 Supreme.  I don't want to
rebuild the motor, because I don't think it needs it.  However, I would like
to re-seal and re-gasket it before I put it in, so that I don't have to pull
it out in a few months and do it.  My main concern is those blasted valve
seats.  So here's my question for all you valve specialists out there:  How
many miles can you put on an a set of heads with soft valve seats before
they require the expensive conversion to hardened seats?  I'm thinking that
if indeed this motor only has 36,000 original miles, and that the last time
it was really run was in '79, that it probably was only fed regular leaded
gas.  And if that's the case, the valve seats should be just fine.  And if I
run Instead-o-lead gas additive or something similar, shouldn't I be able to
put another 100,000 miles on that engine before the seats need replaced?

I got all the engine ID numbers I could find last night, and here's what I
got:

Oil Fill Tube Sticker:  A4N (small letters)& UO (big bold letters)
Oil Fill Tube Stamped Number:  9592347
Pad Behind Water Pump:  396021 F  (could be wrong on this on, because it was
dark)
Pad by Distributor: 113 (this is the day of the year that the block was
cast, right?)
Block Behind Flex Plate:  F1

If any of these numbers contradict each other or identify anything other
than a '69 455 out of a 98, please let me know.

I'd appreciate any comments/questions you might have.

Also, I might be able to get my hands on a set of original X/Z dual exhaust
manifolds, and if so these original, almost-new condition manifolds and
x-over pipe will be for sale.  They'd be excellent for an original single
exhaust restoration project.

Thanks,
Blaine

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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #1470
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