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cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #1429


oldsmobile-digest      Saturday, August 15 1998      Volume 01 : Number 1429



Re: Resonators?
Aluminum Olds Motors
Reproducing script letters
Re: Aluminum Heads!
Re: 403 olds flywheel and clutch
Re: how to test a starter...
(no subject)
Re: 403 olds flywheel and clutch
Re: 4.10 or 4.56 gears?
Re: 400 CID in a '65 F-85?
Re: 400 CID in a '65 F-85?
Re: Reproducing script letters
4-4-2 Ram air hood?
More Cutlass'
Oldsmobile Dash Clock...Steering Wheel??
RE: Attention Greg
Date:	Sat, 15 Aug 1998 15:05:06 -0400
Re: Aluminum Olds Motors
Re: Trans Operation temp
Re: 4-4-2 Ram air hood?
Re: Reproducing script letters
Re: Magnum Rockers
Re: Reproducing script letters
307 STARTED :)
[none]
Rechroming Bumpers
400 CID in a '65 F-85? Not this one.
UNBOUNCE: Steering Wheel Clock
Toronado Gravyard
UNBOUNCE: Toronado Graveyard
Re: How much should I pay?
Re: Trans fluid leak
Re: Woodward Cruise 8/15
Re: 400 CID in a '65 F-85?
Re:  Ebay bidding and Service Manuals
Re: Ebay bidding and Service Manuals
Re: Ebay bidding and Service Manuals
Re: Rechroming Bumpers
Cruise Control problem?
'81 Hurst/Olds?????
Re: Cruise Control problem?
Re: '81 Hurst/Olds?????
Re: [Fwd: Re: 64 F85 Cutlass body tag decoding]
Re: '81 Hurst/Olds?????
G-body Gauges!
VIN numbers
Re: '81 Hurst/Olds?????
Dick Miller Nats Times?
Re: '81 Hurst/Olds?????
Re: VIN numbers
little shops ( Was Re: Rechroming Bumpers)
Re: VIN numbers
Re: '81 Hurst/Olds?????
Re: VIN numbers
Re: '81 Hurst/Olds?????
[none]
Frame Mounts
Re: 403 olds flywheel and clutch

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 08:49:15 -0500
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: Resonators?

Karl, never seen resonators installed before the mufflers before. I always
thought their primary and only function was to reproduce some of the sound
eliminated by the mufflers and to add a pleasing low resonance to the
exhaust note. It you find the lost papers keep us informed. Very curious
white, as are both cars.
Thanks, Lou
lbiggs@intertek.net
1975 Cutlass Supreme 350,350 (pooch, but nice looking). Perhaps I should
chrome it as the old adage goes. "If it doesn't go, chrome it!"
1967 442, 400, 400, kicks tail!


KarlAune@aol.com wrote:

From High School's motor shop I remember a diagram (which I can prolly
dig up!) of resonators coming before mufflers in an exhaust system......

 Ah well, "proof in the pudding"....
 Karl will stat search soon.

 SOM
 &KA

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 10:17:04 +0100
From: Matt Cremean <ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
Subject: Aluminum Olds Motors

Hmmm... a completely aluminum Olds big block huh? Aluminum block, heads,
intake, huge cam, hi-comp FORGED pistons, massive street cam. Sounds
good to me! Maybe when I finally get that $80,000 p/yr. job I'm hoping
for, I'll buy 3 of 'em.


- --
*************
Matt Cremean
mailto:ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
         777777 33333
            77      33
Cutlass    77    3333   Supreme
          77        33
         77     33333
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/
**************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 07:29:26 -0700
From: "mike aldana" <maldana@inreach.com>
Subject: Reproducing script letters

Hi to all... Besides the chromeplating i have been doing for a number of
years, i also have been involved in casting repro pieces in bronze,aluminum,
and cast iron.
I have recently added a
new service, which is reproducing the scripts for the fenders, 1/4 panels. I
realized the need for this, when i needed two emblems i just could not find
for my own project. I
would need a sample of the script, broken is ok, since we can glue it
together long enough to copy. We can add studs to the back just like
original. The shrinkage involved is approximately 1/16 of an inch, so the
studs will fit in the original holes, with a little help from a rat tail
file.... The repro letters would be in red brass, and finished in chrome.
Results are 98%-99% very good. Cost is $95.00 per script.
Regular price to people responding to my Hemmings ads is $125.00 (services
offered section) "casting"                        For more
info, email me at   maldana@inreach.com    thanks   sincerely   MikeAldana
59 Eldo Biarritz
I also manufacture 1/4 window frames, for Olds 98 59-60 Cvts.
Mike Aldana
417 encinas Ave.
Calexico Ca. 92231            760-357-0713

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 08:20:32 -0700
From: Ben <olds442@primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Aluminum Heads!

> You can't run pump gas with 12.5:1 compression. I think any car that needs to
> run race gas (high octane 100+) is not a street car.

I think you may have missed the message. These are aluminum heads. I've got
thicker Mondello head gaskets to help lower it a bit, supper hot spark plugs
are used with a good iginition. Yes I am worried about the octan, but general
rule of thumb for aluminum is about 1 point less. Or a 12.5 system runs like an
11.5:1 system due to the charateristics for the aluminum. If I have to I'll buy
racing fuel from my several suppliers and mix it as cheaply as I can, but will
ensure my car has the octane it needs. At about 11.5 I'm running 92/93 octane
with no problems. I think I'll be okay with my new heads.We'll find out
today... Had to order 9.8" 3/8" push rods and new super hot spark plugs. I'll
keep you all informed.

Ben
62 Olds F-85 forsale!
http://www.primenet.com/~olds442/forsale.html
68 olds 442 Finally got my heads!!!!

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 11:30:26 -0400
From: "Dave Cullen" <david.cullen@snet.net>
Subject: Re: 403 olds flywheel and clutch

- -----Original Message-----
From: DYeager535@aol.com <DYeager535@aol.com>
Subject: Re: 403 olds flywheel and clutch


>   Not saying my book can't be wrong, or isn't, but the TA isn't even
>listed..only the Firebird, and only up to 400. Were they actually all 403's
>then, just called 400's by Pontiac so they could keep saying 400?
<snip>

Nope. The 403 was an Olds small block, also used on some Pancho's and Buicks
in 77-79. T/A's, Bonnies, Electras and the sort. The Pontiac 400 was a big
block which also found its way into some Olds' (88's and 98's?).

drc

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 11:41:51 -0400
From: "Dave Cullen" <david.cullen@snet.net>
Subject: Re: how to test a starter...

>I think one of the two starters may still be good. How can I test them
>without putting them on?


I understand some car parts stores can test em for you at no charge. But
passing a no-load bench test doesn't necessarilly mean it will have the
torque to turn an engine over reliably.

>Or would you suggest to go ahead and spend the $ 30 for a rebuilt one
>without even trying out which one is good? (or would you buy a new one?)

If they both pass a bench test I'd use one of em and take my chances. Keep
the other as a spare. If I were to buy one I don't think I'd ever spend the
$ for a new one.

drc

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 12:01:16 -0400
From: Scott Stefanich <sstefani@up.net>
Subject: (no subject)

unsubscribe oldsmobile

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 09:52:11 +0000
From: Bob Blanchard <bob149@efortress.com>
Subject: Re: 403 olds flywheel and clutch

Do the 350's and 403's use the same flexplate?
If they use the same flex plate it would seem that the are balanced the same.
If this is so, then a easier to find 350 flywheeel  would fit also.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 09:56:27 +0000
From: Bob Blanchard <bob149@efortress.com>
Subject: Re: 4.10 or 4.56 gears?

At 02:42 AM 8/15/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I thought the calais is front wheel drive?!?!?

Yes and no .
there were FWD calais's and a RWD calais (a G-body a think).

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 12:47:31 -0400
From: "W-MACHINES" <wmachine@en.com>
Subject: Re: 400 CID in a '65 F-85?

I have the factory brochure for the police offerings for '65 if anyone is
interested in the information.

Kurt & Rose   wmachine@en.com
Centennial Feature at http://www.en.com/users/wmachine/wm.html
'65 Jetstar 1 4-speed                   '70 Toronado GT W-34 4-sale
'66 442 Sport Coupe 4-speed       '92 Achieva SCX W-41
'66 442 F-85 Deluxe factory L-69  '90 Trofeo

- ----------
> From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@nbn.net>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Cc: cdemps@lsumc.edu
> Subject: Re: 400 CID in a '65 F-85?
> Date: Friday, August 14, 1998 10:03 PM
>
> Dempsey, Charles wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > There is a 1965 F-85 two door hardtop for sale about 150 miles away
from
> > me. The current owner doesn't know much about it, but he says it has a
> > 400 CID motor and an automatic on the column.
> >
> > Was the 400 offered in a non-442 F-85? The FAQ seems to indicate it was
> > only available with the 442 option.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Charles
>
> Well, this COULD be interesting.  In addition to the 442, the 400 was
> available as the Police Apprehender V8 on F-85 models as part of the
> Pursuit Police Apprehender Equipment Package.  This package was
> available on Cutlass Holiday and Sports Coupes, F-85 Deluxe and standard
> 4-door sedans and standard F-85 Club Coupes.  Lots of heavy duty
> equipment was included and Jetaway was available.  MIGHT be worth
> checking into.  Apprehender cars are around, doesn't Bryceman have one?
>
> Paul
> --
> Paul Hartlieb
> Myerstown, PA
> mailto:plh@nbn.net

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 13:35:41 EDT
From: <KarlAune@aol.com>
Subject: Re: 400 CID in a '65 F-85?

In a message dated 98-08-15 13:03:24 EDT, you write:

<< I have the factory brochure for the police offerings for '65 if anyone is
 interested in the information.  >>

OK

What is the easiest way (assuming no documentation) to discern an Apprehender
package?

Thanks

SOM
&KA

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 12:07:14 -0600
From: Oldsmagnet <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Re: Reproducing script letters

Mike aldana wrote:
> Besides the chromeplating i have been doing for a number of
> years, i also have been involved in casting repro pieces in
> bronze,aluminum, and cast iron.

Mike, I think I speak for several folks here, when I ask:
How about 78-87 G-body 442 emblems???  :)

Particularly the 442 door emblems, and (For Jason) some outer sail panel
trims...

Seems I've seen seen many requests for repros of these items in the past.
- --
Oldsmagnet - Charley Buehner @ Sidney Montana |\      |-------|
mailto:buehner@lyrea.com To mail direct to me |/\|=|  |   |   |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner See my homepage |\ |=|  |   |   |
   \ | / =========================== \ | /    |<||=|  |   |   |
    \|/  List Removal and Guidelines  \|/     |/ |=|  |  / \  |
     V   ===========================   V      |\/|=|  | / | \ |
  http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner/listfaq.htm   |/      |___|___|

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 11:49:56 PDT
From: "Justin Brickey" <cutlass260@hotmail.com>
Subject: 4-4-2 Ram air hood?

I have a '70 Cutlass, and was wondering if anyone knew where I could get
a Ram Air 442 hood, original or fiberglass? I know they are out there, I
just want to know where I can get one.

Justin Brickey

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 15:06:24 EDT
From: <RAC5419@aol.com>
Subject: More Cutlass'

Every Friday night from 7-9 Downers Grove IL has a classic car show open to
anyone  who wants to park in the downtown area. Last night there were at least
5-6, 67-71 Cutlass', including a 70? H/O, 71 Supreme convertible, 71 442
convertible, 69 hardtop and 70 hardtop. All looked pretty good. Downers Grove
is about 20-30 miles SW of Chicago. The shows got thru the end of August.

Dick Compton

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 15:03:35 -0400
From: "Don Hughes" <armands@kudos.net>
Subject: Oldsmobile Dash Clock...Steering Wheel??

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BDC85D.E0D1C700
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I have been given a working clock that seems like it might have fit into =
the steering wheel??? it has weights that seem to wind it as would be =
turned?? Does anyone know anything about this??? what years? etc....in =
good working condition and am curious as to how/what about it???

- ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BDC85D.E0D1C700
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I have been given a working clock =
that seems=20
like it might have fit into the steering wheel??? it has weights that =
seem to=20
wind it as would be turned?? Does anyone know anything about this??? =
what years?=20
etc....in good working condition and am curious as to how/what about=20
it???</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BDC85D.E0D1C700--

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 15:09:46 -0400
From: urbanch <urbanch@magi.com>
Subject: RE: Attention Greg

Is the list down or did I just get bounced off of it again? If so please
re-subscribe me please.

Chris Urban

- ----------
From: 	urbanch
Sent: 	Thursday, July 23, 1998 9:23 PM
To: 	'oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca'
Subject: 	RE: 69 442 Parts

Wayne email me at urbanch@magi.com. I would like some information about this.

Chris Urban

- ----------
From: 	Wayne Schwartz
Sent: 	Thursday, July 23, 1998 12:02 PM
To: 	olds chat
Subject: 	69 442 Parts

I've finished my restoration and have the following spare parts for
sale:

- --nearly new mirror, LH door				$60
- --442 grills (bolt tabs need repair)		 	 90 pr
- --14" SSII trim rings, no dents				100 set of 5
- --door moldings						 15 ea
- --various hood & eyebrow moldings			ask
- --pr new after market rocker panels			 30
- --headers (Hooker I think) were on my 400ci		 70
Need headlight housings.  Will trade.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 15:05:06 -0400
From: "Don Hughes" <armands@kudos.net>
Subject: Date:	Sat, 15 Aug 1998 15:05:06 -0400

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BDC85E.162EF8A0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

oops...please respond to Donwy@aol.com about the curious "steering =
wheel" clock or whatever it is??

- ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BDC85E.162EF8A0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>oops...please respond to <A=20
href=3D"mailto:Donwy@aol.com">Donwy@aol.com</A> about the curious =
&quot;steering=20
wheel&quot; clock or whatever it is??</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BDC85E.162EF8A0--

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 15:18:53 EDT
From: <KarlAune@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Aluminum Olds Motors

In a message dated 98-08-15 10:14:05 EDT, you write:

<< Hmmm... a completely aluminum Olds big block huh? Aluminum block, heads,
 intake, huge cam, hi-comp FORGED pistons, massive street cam. Sounds
 good to me! >>

Yeah, I'll bet mondello is planning a "crate" hi-po motor for $10,000.
Financing available.

Do not be too surprised when 5 years on you find that chrome-moly rings were
used!

(shudder!)

I am sure that sleeves will be available at $1000/cylinder!

(because they have benn shot-peened and polished and magna-fluxed.....)

OTOH you couls get more hp/$ by buying a 455 at a ye olde junke yarde...

<how come everything nowadays is Joss Ackland?>
<<<I meant Bass-Ackwards!>>>

SOM
&KA

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 15:00:06 -0500
From: "Peter Landowski" <PETTRIX@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Trans Operation temp

I am running a TH-400 and the sending unit gauge was installed in the trans
pan. It has to be brazed or welded in and it is an Auto Meter Electronic
gauge.
Pettrix@prodigy.net

- ----------
> From: DYeager535@aol.com
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Trans Operation temp
> Date: Saturday, August 15, 1998 8:08 AM
>
> In a message dated 8/15/98 1:10:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> PETTRIX@prodigy.net writes:
>
> << I installed a trans temp gauge and my trans runs around 155 degrees
and at
>  times will get to 180 degrees. The average temp is around 150-160
degrees.
>  Is this a good temperature. I heard if a trans stays in range of over
>  200degrees it cuts its life by 30%. Anyone know what the norm is???
>  Pettrix@prodigy.net
>   >>
>
> Peter, what trans are you runnning? I was told by my friend at the tranny
shop
> that a 700R4 runs right around 200 most of the time. I would think
150-160 is
> VERY good! Where did you install the guage?   Dorian

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 14:55:21 -0500
From: "Peter Landowski" <PETTRIX@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: 4-4-2 Ram air hood?

Year One sells one, don't know if it's good quality ir not. Dick Miller
sells complete fiberglass hoods for racing.
Pettrix@prodigy.net

- ----------
> From: Justin Brickey <cutlass260@hotmail.com>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: 4-4-2 Ram air hood?
> Date: Saturday, August 15, 1998 1:49 PM
>
> I have a '70 Cutlass, and was wondering if anyone knew where I could get
> a Ram Air 442 hood, original or fiberglass? I know they are out there, I
> just want to know where I can get one.
>
> Justin Brickey
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 12:54:02 -0700
From: "mike aldana" <maldana@inreach.com>
Subject: Re: Reproducing script letters

- -----Original Message-----
From: Oldsmagnet <buehner@lyrea.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Saturday, August 15, 1998 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: Reproducing script letters


>Mike aldana wrote:
>> Besides the chromeplating i have been doing for a number of
>> years, i also have been involved in casting repro pieces in
>> bronze,aluminum, and cast iron.
>
>Mike, I think I speak for several folks here, when I ask:
>How about 78-87 G-body 442 emblems???  :)
>
>Particularly the 442 door emblems, and (For Jason) some outer sail panel
>trims...
>
>Seems I've seen seen many requests for repros of these items in the past.

If you have samples of the emblems ,scripts, by all means get them off to
me, and we would see about making some. Again damaged are ok......
sincerely   Mike





>Oldsmagnet - Charley Buehner @ Sidney Montana |\      |-------|
>mailto:buehner@lyrea.com To mail direct to me |/\|=|  |   |   |
>http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner See my homepage |\ |=|  |   |   |
>   \ | / =========================== \ | /    |<||=|  |   |   |
>    \|/  List Removal and Guidelines  \|/     |/ |=|  |  / \  |
>     V   ===========================   V      |\/|=|  | / | \ |
>  http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner/listfaq.htm   |/      |___|___|
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 15:28:49 -0400
From: "Gregory Zimmerman" <zimmermangm@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Magnum Rockers

I have the kit installed on my 350 smallblock.  Absolutely no
problems.  When I build my 455 I will also use another set of comp
cams. roller rockers.  I'll attempt to use an entire non-Mondello
build up by the way....

- -greg

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 14:30:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: JM <super442@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Reproducing script letters

- ---Oldsmagnet <buehner@lyrea.com> wrote:

> Mike, I think I speak for several folks here, when I ask:
> How about 78-87 G-body 442 emblems???  :)
>
> Particularly the 442 door emblems, and (For Jason) some outer sail
panel
> trims...

- -----If interested please do,I'll even scan them to scale or send you
one, us G-BODY guys can't afford what they want for them,I've heard
from $75-$125 a set,little much considering I gave $9.00 each at GM.


John
==
mailto:super442@yahoo.com           ICQ # 16956740
1985 Cutlass-----T-Tops--307 H.O./3.73--http://members.tripod.com/~SuperOlds/
1984 Cutlass-Moonroof--307 http://members.tripod.com/~SuperOlds/PatsCar.html
1982 Cutlass Cruiser Wagon(g-body)--soon to be 403!



_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 14:33:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: JM <super442@yahoo.com>
Subject: 307 STARTED :)

Hey guys,
       Just had to let ya'll know the good news. Today the 307 cranked
up and ran,life is good...might get to drive this thing this year
after all!!This one is #2,so everybody keep their fingers crossed for
me.
             Thanks,
                    John



==
mailto:super442@yahoo.com           ICQ # 16956740
1985 Cutlass-----T-Tops--307 H.O./3.73--http://members.tripod.com/~SuperOlds/
1984 Cutlass-Moonroof--307 http://members.tripod.com/~SuperOlds/PatsCar.html
1982 Cutlass Cruiser Wagon(g-body)--soon to be 403!



_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 18:28:44 -0400
From: Jerry Christopher <ithefunki@cchat.com>
Subject: [none]

unsubscribe oldsmobile

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 18:35:30 EDT
From: <CCRR12@aol.com>
Subject: Rechroming Bumpers

Ref: Bumper Boyz & other bad experiences.

FWIW my observations and opinions.
      Find a local bumper exchange and plating company. Ask around, especially
owners of 50's & older cars, as about all of them have had it done at least
once. When you see a great set of bumpers, tell the guy and he should be happy
to send you the right direction.

      Don't give up on your old bumpers. You may be amazed at what these guys
can do with them. Regardless, don't exchange your cores unless they are total
junk.

      As Joe Padavano stated, varied processes, quality, and pricing are used.
Find the one that best suits your needs. Ask the shop to explain their
process. I have found that quality craftsmen are eager to show you their work.
Not all chrome shops are set up to dip larger bumpers.

      Be patient. As a single custom order, don't expect a quick turn-a-round.
Allow
3-4 weeks at least.

      On a related subject: For repairing starters and alternators the same
holds true. Find an old motor winding shop. Most of these guys, are from the
era when you rebuilt rather than replaced componets. Most will rebuild your
starters & alternators for much less than you can buy one, and you still have
your original equipment. Plus you know exactly what you have.
      Some of these guys are hard to find. They aren't on the main drag in the
nice shops. More than likely a hole-in-the-wall in the old warehouse-service
area. But find them while you can. They won't be around much longer.

Just my opinion.

Randy in Oklahoma
57 88 J2

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 22:41:50 -0500
From: "Charles A. Dempsey" <cdemps@lsumc.edu>
Subject: 400 CID in a '65 F-85? Not this one.

Charles Dempsey wrote:

> There is a 1965 F-85 two door hardtop for sale about 150 miles away from
> me. The current owner doesn't know much about it, but he says it has a
> 400 CID motor and an automatic on the column. He says it is not a 442.
> I'm trying to decide if it's worth the trip to see it.

Thanks everyone for the replies.

I went, I looked, I was disappointed. The car is a 1965 F-85 Club Coupe
with V-8, body style 3427. It is grey, was red. Red bench seat and has
the M-35 Jetaway trans. It also has the standard 330 CID with the 2GC
Rochester. Condition is pretty good and very straight, but unfortunately
it came from Galvaston and may have been in the salt a bit. The hood is
the worst of it. No trunk key so I didn't get to look in there. I think
I'll pass. I really want a 442 anyway.

If anyone needs a parts car e-mail privately and I'll put you in touch.
The doors, front clip (except the hood), trim and glass (except the
windshield) is good. I saw three good hubcaps and the fourth may be in
the trunk. Location is East Texas close to Carthage.

Charles

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 19:44:57 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: UNBOUNCE: Steering Wheel Clock

Not on the list; respond to Donwy@aol.com if interested.

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:	"Don Hughes" <armands@kudos.net>
Subject: Oldsmobile Dash Clock...Steering Wheel??

I have been given a working clock that seems like it might have fit into =
the steering wheel??? it has weights that seem to wind it as would be =
turned?? Does anyone know anything about this??? what years? etc....in =
good working condition and am curious as to how/what about it???

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 18:07:05 -0700
From: Greg Kalkhoff <gkalkhof@mail.execpc.com>
Subject: Toronado Gravyard

To all who are following this thread:

The response to this subject has been overwhelming! Most folks are contacting 
me
 privately (which is fine), however, I don't have the answers and I'm NOT in a
position to elaborate ANYMORE than I already have, only out of respect to Jack
as he is the finder/controller of these cars.

But, Jack and I talked on the phone several times and he agreed that I give you
all his e-mail address so you can contact him directly to get the REAL scoop!


I am in this deal as a consultant only. I can tell you Jack is genuinely an 
Olds
man and would HATE to see these cars crushed, as would I!

I, however, am not in a position (both logistically/room-wise) to be of any 
help
as far as saving them myself. But, I can offer my help in a supervisory,
technical, and adminstrative role.

The graveyard is located in north-east Indiana. That's as much as I dare say at
the moment.

You can contact me privately if you wish, but all serious inquiries about it
should be sent to Jack at: jh2nlla@noblecan.org

Let's see what we can come up with!

Sparky

- --
Greg "Sparky" Kalkhoff                               See the Sparkmobile
Toronado Chapter Webmaster                     
http://www.442.com/kalkhoff.html
Toronado FAQ Page Administrator
http://www.Toronado.org

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 20:05:11 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: UNBOUNCE: Toronado Graveyard

Posted originally by gkalkhof@mail.execpc.com

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:	Greg Kalkhoff <gkalkhof@mail.execpc.com>
Subject: Toronado Gravyard

To all who are following this thread:

The response to this subject has been overwhelming! Most folks are
contacting me privately (which is fine), however, I don't have the answers
and I'm NOT in a position to elaborate ANYMORE than I already have, only
out of respect to Jack as he is the finder/controller of these cars.

But, Jack and I talked on the phone several times and he agreed that I
give you all his e-mail address so you can contact him directly to get the
REAL scoop!

I am in this deal as a consultant only. I can tell you Jack is genuinely
an Olds man and would HATE to see these cars crushed, as would I!

I, however, am not in a position (both logistically/room-wise) to be of
any help as far as saving them myself. But, I can offer my help in a
supervisory, technical, and adminstrative role.

The graveyard is located in north-east Indiana. That's as much as I dare
say at the moment.

You can contact me privately if you wish, but all serious inquiries about
it should be sent to Jack at: jh2nlla@noblecan.org

Let's see what we can come up with!

Sparky

- --
Greg "Sparky" Kalkhoff                               See the Sparkmobile
Toronado Chapter Webmaster                     
http://www.442.com/kalkhoff.html
Toronado FAQ Page Administrator
http://www.Toronado.org

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 16:05:56 -0700
From: babyboo@pacbell.net
Subject: Re: How much should I pay?

Why is it always somebody else that finds these incredable deals, and not
me?
If you can get the car for around $3000.00, your stealing it. Could be worth
alot more, but i'm sure you'll get lots of input from other list members.
Just my .02 cents.

Justin Brickey wrote:

> My sister called me tonight and told me there was a 1971 Cutlass that
> her husbands cousin has.  It only has 27,000 original miles on it and is
> in immaculate condition. He got it from a 94 yr. old woman. So it's been
> taken care of I imagine, plus he has full paperwork on the maintenence.
> How much should I be willing to pay for this little gem?
>
> Justin Brickey
> '79 Cutlass Supreme Brougham
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 16:06:07 -0700
From: babyboo@pacbell.net
Subject: Re: Trans fluid leak

My 70|442 does the same thing when its parked on my steep incline driveway.
When the nose of the car is pointed towards the street{down hill}, the cars
fine. But if its sitting in the driveway *ss end towards the street, it leaks
tranny fluid so badly it runs down the driveway, leaving an ugly puddle towards
the street. Just my .02 cents.

JonKrisInc@aol.com wrote:

> My Delta seems to be leaking trans fluid (unless something else is red) when
> the car is on a steep incline like a driveway. When the car is level, there 
is
> no leak. Put it up on ramps and everything seems tight with no leak. Anyone
> have anything like this happen to them?
> Bruce
> 75 Delta 88 conv.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 16:06:15 -0700
From: babyboo@pacbell.net
Subject: Re: Woodward Cruise 8/15

What about us Olds nuts here in No.California?

Chris Sparks (aka Mr. Ada) wrote:

> Mark Cornea (R) wrote:
>
> > raffling off a new Alero. Gage Oldsmobile is very excited about us being
> > there. This will be good publicity for Gage Olds, Oldsmobile Division
>
> I am quite jealous that so much enthusiasm for car cruises/eventsoutside of
California > (Ok So. Cal).  I would like to attend car shows/cruises > like
those that people on this list talk about.  Unfortunately in So. Cal. none > of
this camaraderie seems to occur. :-( > > Oh well, I am through bitching about
it. > > -- > Chris Sparks > 68 442 SC - Frosty > 68 442 HT - Scarlet > 68 442 
HT
- Saffron > 82 DRB    - Dr. "B" > http://www.catalina-inter.net/mrada

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 19:10:49 -0400
From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@nbn.net>
Subject: Re: 400 CID in a '65 F-85?

KarlAune@aol.com wrote:

> OK
>
> What is the easiest way (assuming no documentation) to discern an Apprehender
> package?
>
> Thanks
>
> SOM
> &KA


I believe the speedometer should read "Certified Police Speedometer".  I
saw a '64 F-85 sedan a few years ago that had one of these.

Paul
- --
Paul Hartlieb
Myerstown, PA
mailto:plh@nbn.net

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 19:23:25 EDT
From: <JJP442@aol.com>
Subject: Re:  Ebay bidding and Service Manuals

Hi list. I'm new to this Olds mailing list, can someone explain what "Ebay
is"?
Thanks,
JJP442@aol.com
1983 HURSTOLDS
1987 442

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 19:36:42 -0400
From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@nbn.net>
Subject: Re: Ebay bidding and Service Manuals

JJP442@aol.com wrote:
>
> Hi list. I'm new to this Olds mailing list, can someone explain what "Ebay
> is"?
> Thanks,
> JJP442@aol.com
> 1983 HURSTOLDS
> 1987 442

Ebay is an Internet auction service.  Go here and have fun:

http://pages.ebay.com/aw/search.html

You can search for just about anything.  Don't forget to search under
both Oldsmobile and Olds.

Paul
- --
Paul Hartlieb
Myerstown, PA
mailto:plh@nbn.net

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 19:55:11 -0400
From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@nbn.net>
Subject: Re: Ebay bidding and Service Manuals

KarlAune@aol.com wrote:
>
> In the greater spirit of good will among Oldsmobilers, I would like to make a
> general request of those of you who are Ebay members.
>
> Kindly do not bid against user...

I debated whether or not I wanted to reply to this.  And at first
decided not to, but have now changed my mind.  I can't believe I am
about burden all our non-ebay members with this.

I thought the purpose of an auction was for the seller to get the most
amount of money for an item that they can get and for buyers to buy
something they want for as little or as much money as they want to pay.

I agree that it is a shame that there are going to be items that show up
here and other places that many list members are going to want to buy.
But if you've got more money than I have brains, and you outbid me on an
item that you really want, I think that's acceptable.  And I think it's
acceptable if the situation is reversed as well.  If I'm looking for a
brochure or a shop manual or a promo to fill one of the gaps in my
personal collection, then I'm going to bid, just as I would at an estate
or public sale (there's usually people there that I know that I'm
bidding against as well.)  I encourage you to do the same.  And as far a
cutting folks a break because they will use the material to help our
Oldsmobile brethern - I use these materials on a weekly basis to answer
questions on this list, like decoding data plates and providing that
information last night about the 400 police packages on the F-85 models.

And as a seller, I'm listing my items hoping to get the highest value
for it that I can.  If I wanted to list something on auction and only
have one bidder, than I'll list it for sale in Hemming's or JWO and ask
my price for it and skip ebay altogether.  Some of the items I have
listed on ebay have had no interest at all (like the '67 Vista Cruiser
showroom transparency up for bid now - hint, hint), some have surprised
me with how high the final bid was.  It's amazing, something that you
think everyone will want no one wants, and something you think no one
wants, like a set of '49 Olds 98 seat covers, sells $20 (I'd have been
glad to get $10).  I wouldn't have gotten $20 if someone who really
wanted them refrained from bidding because they didn't want to step on
someone else's toes.

What I do not condone is the deliberate driving up of bids.  No one
should ever think "There's that Karl guy, let's see how far he'll go on
this thing."  Bids should not be placed unless the bidder is genuinely
interested in that item.

My $.02, please don't hate me for it.  Sorry for the bandwidth.

Paul
- --
Paul Hartlieb
Myerstown, PA
mailto:plh@nbn.net

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 19:58:54 -0400
From: Wayne Schwartz <wschwart@iaw.on.ca>
Subject: Re: Rechroming Bumpers

With all the talk about rechromed bumpers I thought I'd take an
opportunity to ask a question.  The bumpers on my 442 where rechromed
before I bought it and finished the restoration.  The exhaust from the
tail pipe is starting to discolor the area around the cut-outs of the
rear bumper.  I assume this is normal.....any way to stop it.  Comments
please.

Wayne Schwartz
69 442 convertible

CCRR12@aol.com wrote:
>
> Ref: Bumper Boyz & other bad experiences.
>
> FWIW my observations and opinions.
>       Find a local bumper exchange and plating company. Ask around, 
especially
> owners of 50's & older cars, as about all of them have had it done at least
> once. When you see a great set of bumpers, tell the guy and he should be 
happy
> to send you the right direction.
>
>       Don't give up on your old bumpers. You may be amazed at what these guys
> can do with them. Regardless, don't exchange your cores unless they are total
> junk.
>
>       As Joe Padavano stated, varied processes, quality, and pricing are 
used.
> Find the one that best suits your needs. Ask the shop to explain their
> process. I have found that quality craftsmen are eager to show you their 
work.
> Not all chrome shops are set up to dip larger bumpers.
>
>       Be patient. As a single custom order, don't expect a quick 
turn-a-round.
> Allow
> 3-4 weeks at least.
>
>       On a related subject: For repairing starters and alternators the same
> holds true. Find an old motor winding shop. Most of these guys, are from the
> era when you rebuilt rather than replaced componets. Most will rebuild your
> starters & alternators for much less than you can buy one, and you still have
> your original equipment. Plus you know exactly what you have.
>       Some of these guys are hard to find. They aren't on the main drag in 
the
> nice shops. More than likely a hole-in-the-wall in the old warehouse-service
> area. But find them while you can. They won't be around much longer.
>
> Just my opinion.
>
> Randy in Oklahoma
> 57 88 J2

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 17:01:00 PDT
From: "Justin Brickey" <cutlass260@hotmail.com>
Subject: Cruise Control problem?

I am getting ready to put a 455 out of a '70 or '71 Toro into my '79
Cutlass Supreme. My Cutlass has cruise control, I was wondering how hard
it would be to get it to work with the 455. Hopefully, there won't be
any problem at all.

Justin Brickey

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 20:09:52 -0400
From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@nbn.net>
Subject: '81 Hurst/Olds?????

Hey all,

Since I've probably PO'ed everyone here with that ebay stuff, let's see
if I can redeem myself...

I attended the Buick regional in Reading, PA today and stopped with some
Oldsmobile friends on the way home.  We were talking about this car and
that car when Lowell says to me "Did you see the 442 at the dealer down
the road?"  I hadn't.  He proceeds to tell me that it's a 442, doens't
know what year, but has a shovel-nose front, so it must be 70's.  (I
know better and I'm thinking '85-'87.  Made a mental note to check that
one out on the way home.

So, I'm going past the dealer and remember to look for this 442.  There
it is, in the front row.  Black with a silver bottom, red stripes.  Wow!
It's a Hurst/Olds.  But the windshield says "'81".  So I stomp on the
brakes and swing the 98 around (as fast as a 98 will swing around!), and
take a look at this thing.  It has all the Hurst/Olds markings and
stripes (trunk, doors, hood emblem, rear spoiler).  Even has the Hurst
emblem under the clock on the dash and has Lightning Rods.  T-tops,
too.  But the VIN has a B in it instead of a D!  I walked around it a
couple of times and noticed that it had a Mickey Mouse windshield in
it.  I'm thinking it must have been stolen at some point had the VIN tag
replaced.  Is there anywhere else on this car that a VIN should appear?
It had to be a real Hurst, 'cause I can't image anyone going to all this
trouble to change an '81 into a Hurst clone.

Just in case anyone's interested (I don't think I'd touch it with a 10
foot pole) the sign in the window said $3950.00 NO TRADES.  I think the
odometer showed 24K, and the car didn't look like it had 124K, but maybe
it does.  Real clean inside.  They were open yet and I didn't want to
poke around too much.  Maybe I'll go back tomorrow and investigate this
one further.

Paul
- --
Paul Hartlieb
Myerstown, PA
mailto:plh@nbn.net

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 20:15:00 -0400
From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@nbn.net>
Subject: Re: Cruise Control problem?

Justin Brickey wrote:
>
> I am getting ready to put a 455 out of a '70 or '71 Toro into my '79
> Cutlass Supreme. My Cutlass has cruise control, I was wondering how hard
> it would be to get it to work with the 455. Hopefully, there won't be
> any problem at all.
>
> Justin Brickey

I don't know...

You're '79 cruise linkage parts probably won't work with the new carb
linkage, and early Toro cruise probably won't work with the rest of your
cruise system.  But I'm not sure.  You may have to do some tinkering, or
you may have to opt for an aftermarker system to replace the factory
system.

Paul
- --
Paul Hartlieb
Myerstown, PA
mailto:plh@nbn.net

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 20:23:20 -0400
From: "Michael A. Evans" <evans1@net-link.net>
Subject: Re: '81 Hurst/Olds?????

Paul,

Black with silver bottom, lightning rods, "B" VIN (fourth digit =
"passive/automatic belts")......sounds like a misidentified '83 H/O to me.
Go figure that a car dealer may not have the frickingest idea of what he's
talking about. ;-)

>
>So, I'm going past the dealer and remember to look for this 442.  There
>it is, in the front row.  Black with a silver bottom, red stripes.  Wow!
>It's a Hurst/Olds.  But the windshield says "'81".  So I stomp on the
>brakes and swing the 98 around (as fast as a 98 will swing around!), and
>take a look at this thing.  It has all the Hurst/Olds markings and
>stripes (trunk, doors, hood emblem, rear spoiler).  Even has the Hurst
>emblem under the clock on the dash and has Lightning Rods.  T-tops,
>too.  But the VIN has a B in it instead of a D!  I walked around it a
>couple of times and noticed that it had a Mickey Mouse windshield in
>it.  I'm thinking it must have been stolen at some point had the VIN tag
>replaced.  Is there anywhere else on this car that a VIN should appear?
>It had to be a real Hurst, 'cause I can't image anyone going to all this
>trouble to change an '81 into a Hurst clone.
>
>Just in case anyone's interested (I don't think I'd touch it with a 10
>foot pole) the sign in the window said $3950.00 NO TRADES.  I think the
>odometer showed 24K, and the car didn't look like it had 124K, but maybe
>it does.  Real clean inside.  They were open yet and I didn't want to
>poke around too much.  Maybe I'll go back tomorrow and investigate this
>one further.
>
>Paul
>--
>Paul Hartlieb
>Myerstown, PA
>mailto:plh@nbn.net
>
>
Mike Evans
Richland, MI

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 20:35:47 -0400
From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@nbn.net>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: 64 F85 Cutlass body tag decoding]

Craig's tag reads:

> > ------------------------------
> > style-64 3237Body LA 9483
> > trim 963 paint c-f
> > acc x-t-s-2y-3-td
> > ------------------------------

Others have deciphered the paint and trim codes, but the accessory codes
have posed a problem.  The codes I have are for '65, but they should be
close.  Let's see how close we are...

group 1 (has no number)
X=power windows
T=power seat - bucket for sure, bench maybe
S=power trunk release

group 2
Y=there is no Y for '65, Y was in group 5 and was for deluxe seat belts

group 3
T=there is no T for '65, T was in group 2 and was for power antenna
D=uncomfirmed - only seen with interior accessory package

This information is from a JWO article from May '93 by Joel Fantis,
Columbia Height, MN.  He says the codes can be used on some '64-'67 cars
but there are some important differences in those years.  I can post the
whole article if there's enough interest.

Paul
- --
Paul Hartlieb
Myerstown, PA
mailto:plh@nbn.net

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 20:39:15 -0400
From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@nbn.net>
Subject: Re: '81 Hurst/Olds?????

Michael A. Evans wrote:
>
> Paul,
>
> Black with silver bottom, lightning rods, "B" VIN (fourth digit =
> "passive/automatic belts")......sounds like a misidentified '83 H/O to me.
> Go figure that a car dealer may not have the frickingest idea of what he's
> talking about. ;-)

Uh-uh.  The B is in the 10th position, not the 4th.  It's definately an
'81 vin.  It may not even be the vin for a Calais, which is what the H/O
options were installed on.  Will have to check it out tomorrow.

Paul

- --
Paul Hartlieb
Myerstown, PA
mailto:plh@nbn.net

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 17:37:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Pajak <jspajak@yahoo.com>
Subject: G-body Gauges!

     Well, I actually got something done for a change. The  gauges are
IN! My 86 Cutlass Supreme now boasts Sunpro 2 1/16" mechanical water
temp and oil pressure gauges as well as a voltmeter.
     I mounted the 3 gauge chrome panel where the ashtray assy used to
mount. I drilled 2 holes in the panel and it attached it using the
same screws/holes that used to hold the ashtray bracket on. No more
ashtray but I don't smoke! I did keep change in there though! But
there was no other good spot to put the gauges.
     The grommet where the speedometer cable passes through the
firewall in the IDEAL place to route the lines...the hole is about 1"
diameter. I popped the grommet out, ran my lines, slit the grommet to
fit around them, and popped it back in. A little silicone finished the
job. BTW I used 1/8" copper tubing for the oil gauge...Please don't
EVER use plastic tubing!
     I used brass tees on both the oil and water senders so I could
retain the idiot light senders. I fired it up, ran until warm......The
water temp gauge did not move! $%^%$#! What now? Faulty gauge? Time
for an experiment! I took out the tee and installed the water temp
sender right into the intake. The gauge works FINE now! But I don't
have the idiot light sender any more....oh well!
     Conclusion: A mechanical water temp gauge sender needs to sit in
the coolant flow. When I had it mounted in the tee only the tip was
exposed to the coolant. It won't work thst way!
     You learn something new every day!








==
"2 + 2 = 5 for sufficiently large values of 2"

John Pajak
Lexington Park, Maryland

Check out our Oldsmobiles and more at
http://members.tripod.com/~JSPajak
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 20:40:18 EDT
From: <RAC5419@aol.com>
Subject: VIN numbers

I saw folks have been kind enough to decode vin numbers. Could someone
enlighten me on mine?

Thanks,

Dick Compton
1972 442 Convertible VIN 3J67M2M131122

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 18:50:29 -0600
From: Oldsmagnet <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Re: '81 Hurst/Olds?????

> Since I've probably PO'ed everyone here with that ebay stuff,

Not me.  I agree it's a good forum to get the best buyer for the best product.
I only mention because I think I started it, with my concerns over needlessly
outbidding other listmembers.  Non-members, well, they're on their own, but I
feel a special "family-type" bond with the list members here, and don't want to
infringe on that.  If I find something that I ~might~ be able to use... 
someday,
etc...  I'll probably bid on it.  But if there's someone else who actually
~needs~ it, I'd not want to stand in their way.  Anyway...

> It's a Hurst/Olds.  But the windshield says "'81".  So I stomp on the

> too.  But the VIN has a B in it instead of a D!  I walked around it a

Keep in mind that the B and D are probably quite close, in that there's a
difference of one little line...  Perhaps a piece of debris is masquerading as
part of a B, over top of a D...  Maybe.  The driver's door should show the VIN
on the sticker there, if it's still legible.  Same with the left(?) head's 
front
surface.  My educated guess is that the ~uneducated~ dealer looked on the
taillight, found the "SAE 81" number, and tagged it as an '81, without looking
at the title.  If it really is a B on the vin, there's definately something
fishy happening.  Dig as hard as you can in the car to find the original VIN.
(The VIN ~can't~ be changed from the windshield, and ~can~ be changed without
removing the windshield...  Just trust me there, OK?  :)  If you find evidence
of a varying VIN, call the cops and request a stolen vehicle search on that
###.  If you ~do~ go for it, keep a paper trail five miles long to cover your
a$$, and search long and hard for the car's true identity.  Tell the dealer you
want a list of the previous owner(s) and keep that record on file for 
yourself.

I'll probably add to this later tonight, but I'm running late right now.  Good
luck!  (There might be a build sheet in there somewhere, still, too...)

- --
Oldsmagnet - Charley Buehner @ Sidney Montana |\      |-------|
mailto:buehner@lyrea.com To mail direct to me |/\|=|  |   |   |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner See my homepage |\ |=|  |   |   |
   \ | / =========================== \ | /    |<||=|  |   |   |
    \|/  List Removal and Guidelines  \|/     |/ |=|  |  / \  |
     V   ===========================   V      |\/|=|  | / | \ |
  http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner/listfaq.htm   |/      |___|___|

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 20:59:59 -0400
From: "Jason P. Labay" <jlabay@ee.net>
Subject: Dick Miller Nats Times?

What is the exact schedule of events for the Dick Miller Nats at Norwalk, OH on
Sunday? I never received any info on it, just knew the date. Thanks

Jason Labay (jlabay@ee.net)   Akron, OH
98 Silverado C2500     88 Trans Am GTA
75 Hurst/Olds W-25    80 Olds 442 W-30
72 Cutlass Supreme Drag Car

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 21:00:29 -0400
From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@nbn.net>
Subject: Re: '81 Hurst/Olds?????

Oldsmagnet wrote:

> Keep in mind that the B and D are probably quite close, in that there's a
> difference of one little line...  Perhaps a piece of debris is masquerading 
as
> part of a B, over top of a D...  Maybe.

I'm not quite 30 yet, the eyesight isn't THAT bad, and I DID have my
contact lenses in. :)

Read my hands, the VIN has a B, not a D.  You guys are gonne make me go
out there with a flashlight tonight yet, aren't you?  Hope someone bails
me out of jail if I get arrested.  Headline will read "Local man jailed
for stealing stolen car, claims community service"

Paul
- --
Paul Hartlieb
Myerstown, PA
mailto:plh@nbn.net

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 21:04:41 -0400
From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@nbn.net>
Subject: Re: VIN numbers

RAC5419@aol.com wrote:
>
> I saw folks have been kind enough to decode vin numbers. Could someone
> enlighten me on mine?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dick Compton
> 1972 442 Convertible VIN 3J67M2M131122

Yeah, get a shop manual like the rest of us... ;)

seriously,

3 - Oldsmobile
J - Cutlass Supreme
67 - convertible
M - 350, 4bbl (L34) with dual exhaust (N10)
2 - 1972
M - Lansing plant
131122 - production sequence

my convertible is 183135

Paul
- --
Paul Hartlieb
Myerstown, PA
mailto:plh@nbn.net

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 18:06:41 +0000
From: Bob Blanchard <bob149@efortress.com>
Subject: little shops ( Was Re: Rechroming Bumpers)

>      On a related subject: For repairing starters and alternators the same
>holds true. Find an old motor winding shop. Most of these guys, are from the
>era when you rebuilt rather than replaced componets. Most will rebuild your
>starters & alternators for much less than you can buy one, and you still have
>your original equipment. Plus you know exactly what you have.
>      Some of these guys are hard to find. They aren't on the main drag in
the
>nice shops. More than likely a hole-in-the-wall in the old warehouse-service
>area. But find them while you can. They won't be around much longer.
>
Little local shops are usually the best way to go. I needed new u-joints
(and I hate doing u-joints almost as much as doing exaust) so I decided I
"might-as-well" have the shaft balanced. After calling a few places, I just
stumbled upon a driveline shop. This guy ballanced the drifeshaft, put in
new u-joints AND put on a new slip yoke, all for $110.

Tom, if your listening, it's Merls driveline . at Freya and Broadway :)
__
Bob.
'66 Vista Cruiser
(rebuilt, not restored)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 21:18:19 -0400
From: "Michael A. Evans" <evans1@net-link.net>
Subject: Re: VIN numbers

Dick,

3=Oldsmobile
J=Cutlass Supreme (or Hurst/Olds)
67=2 door convertible
M-350, 4 barrel carb, 200hp, dual exhaust
2=1972 model year
M=Lansing, MI assembly plant
131122=assembly sequence.  Starting number 100001 up.

At 08:40 PM 8/15/98 EDT, you wrote:
>I saw folks have been kind enough to decode vin numbers. Could someone
>enlighten me on mine?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Dick Compton
>1972 442 Convertible VIN 3J67M2M131122
>
>
Mike Evans
Richland, MI

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 21:21:55 -0400
From: "Michael A. Evans" <evans1@net-link.net>
Subject: Re: '81 Hurst/Olds?????

If it's an '81 VIN, it's obviously a fake Hurst/Olds, as there are none in
'81.......having one of none is the rarest bird of all!

At 08:39 PM 8/15/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Michael A. Evans wrote:
>>
>> Paul,
>>
>> Black with silver bottom, lightning rods, "B" VIN (fourth digit =
>> "passive/automatic belts")......sounds like a misidentified '83 H/O to me.
>> Go figure that a car dealer may not have the frickingest idea of what he's
>> talking about. ;-)
>
>Uh-uh.  The B is in the 10th position, not the 4th.  It's definately an
>'81 vin.  It may not even be the vin for a Calais, which is what the H/O
>options were installed on.  Will have to check it out tomorrow.
>
>Paul
>
>--
>Paul Hartlieb
>Myerstown, PA
>mailto:plh@nbn.net
>
>
Mike Evans
Richland, MI

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 18:14:39 +0000
From: Bob Blanchard <bob149@efortress.com>
Subject: Re: VIN numbers

At 08:40 PM 8/15/98 -0400, you wrote:
>I saw folks have been kind enough to decode vin numbers. Could someone
>enlighten me on mine?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Dick Compton
>1972 442 Convertible VIN 3J67M2M131122
>
3= Oldsmobile
J= Cutlass Supreme
67=2 door Convertible
M=350 cid, 4 bbl, dual ex
2= 1972
M= built at lansing MI
31122nd car built

__
Bob.
'66 Vista Cruiser
(rebuilt, not restored)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 21:27:56 -0400
From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@nbn.net>
Subject: Re: '81 Hurst/Olds?????

Michael A. Evans wrote:
>
> If it's an '81 VIN, it's obviously a fake Hurst/Olds,

Or a real '83 that's been stolen and had the VIN switched from some
scrapyard '81 Cutlass so that it could be registered and not tracked as
a stolen car...

Paul
- --
Paul Hartlieb
Myerstown, PA
mailto:plh@nbn.net

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 21:30:16 -0400
From: Jerry Christopher <ithefunki@cchat.com>
Subject: [none]

subscribe oldsmobile

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 18:34:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joe Padavano <joe_padavano@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Frame Mounts

Actually, I was referring to the metal part that's on the frame that the
rubber motor mounts attach to.  I understand these are a necessary part of
the conversion, since the BB would otherwise sit too high and the fan would
rub on the shroud.
____________________

What year is the car?  Through 68, all big and small block A-body Oldsmobiles
used the same frame mount, part no. 383563.  In 69, Olds went to a new design
of the rubber motor mount, requiring a redesign of the matching frame mount on
the big block cars (350s retained the 68-earlier design).  In both cases,
though, the engine crank centerline sits at the same height for both big and
small blocks.  Since the front cover is the same, that means the water pump
also sits at the same height.  All you need is to use the frame and rubber
mounts for the _car_, not the engine.  When installed with the correct mounts,
the big block will look like it's sitting higher because it _is_ an inch
taller that the small block.  That's why the 70 W-31 uses a taller foam ring
on the O.A.I. adapter than the W-30.

The problem of fan hitting the shroud comes about when rubber mounts for the
engine are matched with the frame mounts for the car; the later mounts place
the cross bolt (the bolt that connects the rubber mount to the frame mount)
lower in the car - using these rubber mounts with the early frame mounts
_will_ make the engine sit high.

=================

This is what I believe is necessary in the conversion.  Correct me if I'm
wrong:

- - - BB to replace the SB (obvious)
_________________

Yep

=================

- - - Metal frame mounts that the rubber motor mounts attach to
_________________

See above

=================

- - - Heavy-duty front coil springs to carry the extra weight of the BB
_________________

Yes, theoretically, but I've done this swap and not changed the springs.
Front of the car sits a little lower, but actually doesn't look bad - gives it
a nice rake.

=================

- - - 4-core radiator, top plate, and lower mounting brackets (?)
_________________

Yes.  The top plate will likely be tough to find, and the lower brackets are
welded to the core support.  I've just "modified" the lower brackets with a
two pound sledge - basically just flatten the forward leg of the "U" to allow
the wider tank to fit.  Not pretty, but it works and won't show once the
radiator is in.

=================

- - - Notched valve covers to clear power brakes booster (?)
_________________

Again, not mandatory, but it will make pulling the valve cover very difficult
with the powere booster and A/C in place.  Note that the un-notched valve
covers will not hit, the notches are just there to facilitate removal while
the engine is in the car.

And to answer your original question, the frame mounts are bolted in with
three bolts each.  There are some access holes in the bottom side of the frame
crossmember, but I seem to recall that at least one bolt on each side is
accessed through the cutout where the lower A-arm is attached to the frame.
If I remember correctly (it's been a lot of years), you _can_ get to the bolt
with the A-arms still in place.  As others have noted, however, it's easy to
drop bolts or sockets down inside the frame, and nearly impossible to get them
out.  Be sure to duct tape the socket to the extension before going after the
mounts.

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
70 W-30
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 18:37:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joe Padavano <joe_padavano@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: 403 olds flywheel and clutch

...Yes the block has a hole drilled and tapped from the factory for the clutch
pivot ball. So i was with the assumption that there is a flywheel made for
this application. Coming up with the bell housing is no problem, I think i
have found one that will fit. The flywheel is the major problem though. Are
there any flywheels that olds made that will fit the 403?
Thanks Tim Wurtz
______________

Tim,

Any B-O-P MT bellhousing or scattershield will work.  The flywheel from any
68-up Olds will work - big and small blocks use the same flywheel.

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
70 W-30





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------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #1429
*********************************
