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Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #1430


oldsmobile-digest       Sunday, August 16 1998       Volume 01 : Number 1430



DuPont Paint Info Needed
'64 & 69 For Sale
'76-79 Wanted
WAS Re: 403 olds flywheel/clutch..now just 403
Frame Pads and Motor Mounts
Re: Trans Operation temp
Re: oldsmobile Dash Clock...Steering Wheel.
Alum Heads almost running!
Registry
`C' Heads forsale!
Re: WAS Re: 403 olds flywheel/clutch..now just 403
Re: '81 Hurst/Olds?????
Re: 4-4-2 Ram air hood?
Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 #1429
subscribe oldsmobile
Musclecar newsletter
Date:	Sun, 16 Aug 1998 01:11:35 -0400
Steering column question
Re: 400 CID in a '65 F-85? Not this one.
Re:  Cruise Control problem?
Re:  '81 Hurst/Olds?????
Re:  Re: '81 Hurst/Olds?????
Suspension
Re:  Re: '81 Hurst/Olds?????
Re: Steering column question (long)
Re:  Steering column question
Re: UNBOUNCE: Steering Wheel Clock
Re:  Suspension
Re: pro jection?
Re: Suspension
Re: '81 Hurst/Olds?????
Re: W-30 Automatics (was HP question)
UNBOUNCE: ISO '72 Toro PW Switch
Re: Rechroming Bumpers
Re: DuPont Paint Info Needed
Re: '76-79 Wanted
Re: WAS Re: 403 olds flywheel/clutch..now just 403
DMR NATS at Norwalk
Re: Registry/ reply
1964  Cutlass Bumpers
Attn.: Doug Newman (Was Re: DMR NATS at Norwalk)
Re: Suspension
Re: 1964  Cutlass Bumpers
Re:  Re: Suspension
Re: '81 Hurst/Olds?????
Re: Musclecar newsletter
Re: Separating out the Olds from the chaff :was the ( ! ) thing
Re: Separating out the Olds from the chaff :was the ( ! ) thing
442 Search
Re: wow
'72 Toro PW Switch
84 442 for sale
Re: 84 442 for sale
John and Mark
Car Probs was Re: Separating out the Olds from the ...
Re: 84 442 for sale
wheels...how big???
Re: '81 Hurst/Olds?????
Same Carb Problem....
Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 #1429
RE: ISO '72 Toro PW Switch (Is '73 same???)
Re: wheels...how big???
Re: Musclecar newsletter

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 19:02:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joe Padavano <joe_padavano@rocketmail.com>
Subject: DuPont Paint Info Needed

I was wondering if anyone out there can h*lp me with formulas for the
following colors, preferably in lacquer (yes, I can still get it mixed here in
Virginia, though no one knows how much longer that will be the case).  The
problem is that on today's trip to my local paint store, the counter person
proceeded to look these up in The Computer, only to find that the data wasn't
there.

COUNTER PERSON: "Well, if it's not in THE COMPUTER, we can't mix it."

ME:  "Uh, these are for a 1970 automobile, built and painted _before_ the PC
was invented.  Shouldn't the formula be written down somewhere?"

You can guess how far _that_ line of reasoning went.

The first one is Sebring Yellow (code 51).  Now, this very paint store mixed a
quart of Sebring Yellow lacquer for me a few years ago, but apparently have
lost the recipe.  They _do_ have the formula in every other type of paint, but
given the time until the Power Tour, I feel more comfortable shooting lacquer
(mainly because I can fix my screwups and reshoot quickly).  Yes, I'll use a
basecoat/clearcoat if I have to, but...

Next is the eggshell finish black paint used in the interior, on the metal
panels at the base of the windshield and the back window.  They had no clue on
this in _any_ type of paint.

Finally, I need black in the correct level of "flatness" for the firewall.
One place suggested wood stove paint.  Another suggested the spray cans from
Trak Auto.  While that may be a last resort, I'd like to do a better job than
that.

As I noted above, DuPont lacquer formulas are preferred, though there are
paint stores here that mix RM and PPG.  I'll also entertain formulas for the
two blacks in other than lacquer, just so I have something.

Thanks in advance.

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
70 W-30





_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 20:09:23 -0700
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: '64 & 69 For Sale

Got these for sale notices.  Usual disclaimers - don't know personally ad
infinitum:

phyllis kreider <Mball1@aol.com>
     DATE:  Saturday, 15 August 1998, at 10:39 a.m.

Our grandmotoher willed us her 1964 Olds 98 Rocket with 394 engine. It is
located in Union City Indiana and has 35,000 actual miles on it. Has been
garaged since 1980. Hood has some rust on it. Willing to take best offer.


bkivett <notaproble@aol.com>
     DATE:  Saturday, 15 August 1998, at 12:54 p.m.

69 olds 98 convt good power easy to restore, does not need much-appraised 2
years ago at $6800, only slightly ignored, will still burn rubber with the
best $3500

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 20:11:33 -0700
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: '76-79 Wanted

Just passing this request along......

Chris <marchar01@aol.com>
     DATE:  Saturday, 15 August 1998, at 1:29 p.m.

I'm in the market for a 76-79 oldsmobile omega. I live in Northeastern Ohio.
Any interested sellers?

SCOTT <TSHOLMES@GTE.net>
     DATE:  Saturday, 15 August 1998, at 6:07 p.m.

I am looking for a set of headlight trim for a 79 Hurst/Olds W-30 or a 79
Cutlass Calias....I will pay top dollar for them. Its a single headlight
w/the
turn signal next to it ( inside the trim )If you know of any e-mail
me..Thanks.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 22:16:29 EDT
From: <DYeager535@aol.com>
Subject: WAS Re: 403 olds flywheel/clutch..now just 403

In a message dated 98-08-15 11:32:12 EDT, you write:

<< Nope. The 403 was an Olds small block, also used on some Pancho's and
Buicks
 in 77-79. T/A's, Bonnies, Electras and the sort. The Pontiac 400 was a big
 block which also found its way into some Olds' (88's and 98's?).

 drc
  >>
      Hollanders doesn't list any 403's in TA's..I've always heard they were
put in them..what was the rationale for Pontiac, or for that matter, Olds, to
use the 400 vs. the 403??? 3 cubic inches is nothing! They would also, in GM
lingo, probably be 6.6 litres, like 396, 402, 400, 403, correct?   Dorian

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 19:12:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Pajak <jspajak@yahoo.com>
Subject: Frame Pads and Motor Mounts

Joe Padavano wrote:
If I remember correctly (it's been a lot of years), you
_can_ get to the bolt with the A-arms still in place.

>Right Joe, yes you can!. We were putting an engine in the 72 W30 for
the first time since I had owned it. A 455 and new correct motor
mounts were hoisted into the engine bay. But, the mounts wouldn't line
up with the frame pads! A quick look revealed that the car had 350
style frame pads! Then I remember: I saved the frame pads from a 72
455 Supreme I parted! Somehow they were easy to find in my parts
stash! So we changed the frame pads right there, and installed the 455
that day. It was a royal pain to change the frame pads but we did it!
Dr Olds himself must have been watching over us that day!



==
"2 + 2 = 5 for sufficiently large values of 2"

John Pajak
Lexington Park, Maryland

Check out our Oldsmobiles and more at
http://members.tripod.com/~JSPajak
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 22:32:05 EDT
From: <DYeager535@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Trans Operation temp

In a message dated 98-08-15 15:53:27 EDT, you write:

<< I am running a TH-400 and the sending unit gauge was installed in the trans
 pan. It has to be brazed or welded in and it is an Auto Meter Electronic
 gauge.
 Pettrix@prodigy.net >>

     Anybody ever installed one in the factory line pressure check locations?
I was told it was feasible, would make it easy to install...Dorian

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 03:25:32 -0500
From: "Charles A. Dempsey" <cdemps@lsumc.edu>
Subject: Re: oldsmobile Dash Clock...Steering Wheel.

You Wrote:

> I have been given a working clock that seems like it might have fit into =
> the steering wheel??? it has weights that seem to wind it as would be =
> turned?? Does anyone know anything about this??? what years? etc....in =
> good working condition and am curious as to how/what about it???

Hmm. That sounds like a Maar Automatic Car Watch. You can see one at
<http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24706800>.

The Car Watch goes in the steering wheel hub of '51 and '52 Oldsmobiles
and is wound by the weights when the steering wheel is turned. Cool
idea! It uses a special horn ring. The watches seem plentiful but the
horn rings are rare. If anybody's got a Car Watch horn ring speak up. I
know about 20 people that want one :-).

Charles

Please turn off the HTML coding. The messages are difficult to read, and
even a short message goes on for pages and pages. TIA.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 20:11:46 -0700
From: Ben <olds442@primenet.com>
Subject: Alum Heads almost running!

Well, I'm even more dissapointed in Edelbrock. 4 month delay, Only 20
out of 150 passed quality checks and shipped, had to buy $200 Jesel
9.800" 3/8" pushrods (they didn't tell us the length to buy either, we
had to dig that up) and now I goto put the heads on and would prefer to
use my previouse set of roller tip rocker arms... WRONG! They said in
the instructions that roller tip rockers are mandatory, but they didn't
say they had to be 3/8" stud mounted rollers. Nor do they state if they
are stock or a different ratio that must be used! My heads are on, the
engine is almost fully assembled except the roller tipped rockers. I
even pulled  a stud out to see if I could use my old ones, WRONG again!
They drilled them out alot larger! Edelbrock produced some nice heads,
but don't give the information required to fully assemble them in one
day. it will take me about a week to assemble them now. Let's bombard
Edelbrock with this crap and see if we can get them to change their
policies on their buildup instructions. It's total BS! Well, back to
looking for the right rocker arms...

Oh, and one last thing. Check out my post coming up on a set of "C"
heads for sale. from a 68 442.

Ben
62 Olds f-85 forsale
http://www.primenet.com/~olds442/forsale.html
68 Olds 442 (almost running with my new heads!)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 23:14:11 -0400
From: "Robert Schinkel" <docbob@caninet.com>
Subject: Registry

I know there is someone on this list that can help me and others who are
interested in a W-31 registry.
How do I go about starting or forming one.

All of us who have W-31's seem quite curious how many are out there, and
how many are either automatic or 4 gear.
I personally would like to know how many 70 W-31 4 gears were made and how
many are still left

So any help appreciated

Thanks List

Robert Schinkel
docbob@caninet.com
Niagara Falls, Canada
905-357-4454
1970 442 Convertible  (PARTING OUT)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 20:16:33 -0700
From: Ben <olds442@primenet.com>
Subject: `C' Heads forsale!

I've got one set of C heads for sale. They are from my 68 Olds 442 w/
400. Valves look the same as the aluminums I have and those are 2.072
ex, 1.68 intake. Probably 77cc chambers, maybe a bit bigger. Roller tip
Rockers, guide plates (one missing, can be made localy for cheap), and
had a full valve job just over a year ago.

Rocker arms about about 200+ alone, and the heads are probably worth
300+. I'll take the first 450 (or best offer) that comes forth. shipping
can be negotiated.

Hope to help out a fellow Oldser,

Ben

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 23:19:17 -0400
From: "Michael A. Evans" <evans1@net-link.net>
Subject: Re: WAS Re: 403 olds flywheel/clutch..now just 403

As I recall, Pontiac used their 400's 'til they were gone, then switched to
the 403 thereafter.

>      Hollanders doesn't list any 403's in TA's..I've always heard they were
>put in them..what was the rationale for Pontiac, or for that matter, Olds, to
>use the 400 vs. the 403??? 3 cubic inches is nothing! They would also, in GM
>lingo, probably be 6.6 litres, like 396, 402, 400, 403, correct?   Dorian
>
>
Mike Evans
Richland, MI

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 23:16:32 -0000
From: "RANDY A GEISEL" <RANDYGEISEL@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: '81 Hurst/Olds?????

Paul,

The dealer wouldn't happen to be Bayliss on rte 61 would it?

Randy

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 23:15:30 -0400
From: Bill & Beth <dickinson@skow.net>
Subject: Re: 4-4-2 Ram air hood?

Try YEAR ONE they have a fiberglass reproduction for $449.00

oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca wrote:

> I have a '70 Cutlass, and was wondering if anyone knew where I could get
> a Ram Air 442 hood, original or fiberglass? I know they are out there, I
> just want to know where I can get one.
>
> Justin Brickey
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 03:47:58 -0500
From: "Charles A. Dempsey" <cdemps@lsumc.edu>
Subject: Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 #1429

Paul Hartlieb <plh@nbn.net> wrote:

> Michael A. Evans wrote:
> >
> > If it's an '81 VIN, it's obviously a fake Hurst/Olds,
>
> Or a real '83 that's been stolen and had the VIN switched from some
> scrapyard '81 Cutlass so that it could be registered and not tracked as
> a stolen car...>

The VIN should be on the frame rail *somewhere*. My database is
curiously silent on the subject of '80s cars. A popular location in
previous years was in the engine bay on the left frame rail above the
"A" arms. If you know a policeman they are privy to the location of
these "hidden" numbers.

The grille on an '81 is a 4X6 pattern and the '83 is something like a
16X16 pattern. Curious that someone would go to so much trouble to fake
a non-existant H/O.

Charles

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 00:30:33 -0400
From: Jerry Christopher <ithefunki@cchat.com>
Subject: subscribe oldsmobile

subscribe oldsmobile
- --
                - Jerry Christopher -
IRC - EFNet:IThEFunKI - #SouthCarolina -#Olds - #Ford
       HTTP://Members.Viperlink.Net/IThEFunKI

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 00:53:17 EDT
From: <Jon442@aol.com>
Subject: Musclecar newsletter

Hey, gang

I am starting a newsletter devoted to all musclecars. Check it out at:

http://members.aol.com/mupdate

I would appreciate your support.

Thanks,

Jon

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 01:11:35 -0400
From: ck869@mindspring.com
Subject: Date:	Sun, 16 Aug 1998 01:11:35 -0400

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BDC8B2.D0629F20
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

i need the power window switch for a 72 toronado. it is a 4 cluster in =
the armrest drivers door.    email me at ck869@midspring.com

- ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BDC8B2.D0629F20
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#fffbf0>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>i need the power window switch for a =
72=20
toronado. it is a 4 cluster in the armrest drivers =
door.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; email=20
me at ck869@midspring.com</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BDC8B2.D0629F20--

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 00:26:03 -0500
From: "Ryan Hehn" <ryanh@mb.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Steering column question

Hello,

This may be a stupid question, but can an early '80s 88/98 steering column
be used in a g-body Cutlass?  These cars tend to show up in the yards around
here more than the g-body cars.

I've got wiring problems in mine - cruise only works when left signal is on,
etc.  Besides, I want to find one with a delay wiper control so I can swap
the wiper motor to a delay one...

Thanks in advance,

Ryan Hehn
'86 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 01:41:48 EDT
From: <KarlAune@aol.com>
Subject: Re: 400 CID in a '65 F-85? Not this one.

In a message dated 98-08-15 18:44:26 EDT, you write:

<< I went, I looked, I was disappointed. The car is a 1965 F-85 Club Coupe
 with V-8, body style 3427. It is grey, was red. Red bench seat and has
 the M-35 Jetaway trans. It also has the standard 330 CID with the 2GC
 Rochester. Condition is pretty good and very straight, but unfortunately
 it came from Galvaston and may have been in the salt a bit. The hood is
 the worst of it. No trunk key so I didn't get to look in there. I think
 I'll pass. I really want a 442 anyway. >>

My ignition key fits doors, trunk and glove box.
(1965 Dynamic 88)

What was he asking for the car?

Thanks!

K

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 01:45:19 EDT
From: <JJP442@aol.com>
Subject: Re:  Cruise Control problem?

If the engine you are replacing is an Olds V8, just bolt and hook up
everything the same way it is on the old motor.
Good Luck,
John, JJP442@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 01:52:48 EDT
From: <JJP442@aol.com>
Subject: Re:  '81 Hurst/Olds?????

Well, there is no such thing as an 81 H/O (except for the Hurst prototype but
that one is unique) so.. there is definitely something fishy about this car.
There should be a option code sticker on the inside of the trunck lid and a
stamped body ID tag on the drivers side firewall, should say W40.
Hope this helps,
John
JJP442@aol.com
1983 HurstOlds
1987 442

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 02:03:02 EDT
From: <JJP442@aol.com>
Subject: Re:  Re: '81 Hurst/Olds?????

I'm pretty sure an 83 HurstOlds has K47 as the 5th 6th &7th digits, i seem to
remember that when I was confirming that mine was the real McCoy. It's been
about 10yrs since I bought my Hurst. check to see if the exhaust is intact
should have a "Y" pipe and 2 mufflers exiting out behind the tires.
Again, hope this helps,
JJP442@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 02:07:08 -0400
From: "James E. O'Donnell" <CaIlaway@sprintmail.com>
Subject: Suspension

Can anyone please help? I'm looking to change the suspension in my 1988
Cutlass Supreme Classic and I want to make it as firm of a ride as I
possibly can. However, at the same time it must also be able to handle
some of the potholes New York has to offer. Any suggestions would be
greatly appreciated.

I read the standard suspension on the 1987 442 was called a level II
firm ride suspension system with rear air shock absorbers. Does anyone
know what kind of suspension this was and what it consisted of?

Thanks again

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 02:08:42 EDT
From: <JJP442@aol.com>
Subject: Re:  Re: '81 Hurst/Olds?????

Well I know mine is real, but the"D" is the 10th digit.
JJP442@aol.com
83 HurstOlds
87 442

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 02:09:31 EDT
From: <DYeager535@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Steering column question (long)

      Ryan, the internals are more than likely mostly the same..pretty vague,
but that's about how it goes. The "mast jacket" on bigger vehicles (full size
cars, s-10's, full size pick ups are most likely ALL longer ( I know the
trucks are) most of the turn signal switches are the same, as long as the same
vintage is used. As cheap as the columns MOST of the time are, wait and get
the right one for your car. Swapping and finding parts for these columns is
rather time consuming(especially dismantling them without breaking them), and
if you have to pay for the pieces, expensive.
     I know that the dimmer switch lever at the top of the column (internally)
can be different, and there seems to be at least 4 different of those GM used.
Wiring colors have changed, and the amount of wires have changed(don't ask me
where the additional wires go on the newer column) Also you must use tilt to
replace tilt, for most pieces. If you purchased a column intending to swap out
the internals, you might as well keep yours and scrounge for parts. thats why
I suggest getting an exact fit replacement. Around here they run from $70 to
$100, depending on application.
     I think the delay control is on the turn signal switch(? If not, someone
correct me, don't feel like pulling one out now) And it sounds like the cruise
wires are pinched somewhere. Pull the turn signal lever off (I twist it
forward and back, not too hard, while pulling directly out) and see if the
wires are damaged up there..if they are, go to the wrecking yard, get a new
handle, cut the wire with enough left to work with, and solder the wires to
your existing. If it ISN'T damaged up top, most likely in the tilt section.
But if you say only when the left signal is on, it SHOULD be damaged up near
the lever...  Hope this helps a little, Dorian

PS: Almost any GM column from 73-9? that looks like yours is useable for some
parts, but trucks waited to go to the dimmer switch on the column until about
'84. Thats the one thing to look out for on ALL the columns.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 02:14:58 EDT
From: <JJP442@aol.com>
Subject: Re:  Steering column question

I think it's longer than the G bodies column. The junk yard guy should have
the interchange book and will know for sure.
JJP442@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 02:14:32 EDT
From: <KarlAune@aol.com>
Subject: Re: UNBOUNCE: Steering Wheel Clock

In a message dated 98-08-15 18:47:00 EDT, you write:

<< I have been given a working clock that seems like it might have fit into
the steering wheel??? it has weights that seem to wind it as would be turned??
Does anyone know anything about this??? what years? etc....in good working
condition and am curious as to how/what about it??? >>

Yup.

Heard about that one!

You are absolutely right, the clock is wound by turning the steering wheel.

I believe is is from an early 1950's car.
Could find for certain, but requires some digging.

If you are asking what it is worth, I cannot help you.
To someone without the right car, it is just a nifty clock.

Good luck!

Karl

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 02:21:45 EDT
From: <JJP442@aol.com>
Subject: Re:  Suspension

I'm in New York also and have done the suspension on both my G bodies. This is
what I recommend; Moog coil springs #5610 front, #5375 rear and Gabriel
"black" gas shocks. This works really well for me. Oh... if you don't have
anti-sway bars it would be a good idea to get some.
Good Luck'
JJP442@aol.com
1983 Hurst Olds
1987 442

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 23:17:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: jalkara <jalkara@whidbey.net>
Subject: Re: pro jection?

just a ? as to the pro jection, did you use a digital or analog volt meter
for setup?

tia47rocket98

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 03:02:33 -0400
From: "James E. O'Donnell" <CaIlaway@sprintmail.com>
Subject: Re: Suspension

JJP442@aol.com wrote:
>
> I'm in New York also and have done the suspension on both my G bodies. This 
is
> what I recommend; Moog coil springs #5610 front, #5375 rear and Gabriel
> "black" gas shocks. This works really well for me. Oh... if you don't have
> anti-sway bars it would be a good idea to get some.
> Good Luck'
> JJP442@aol.com
> 1983 Hurst Olds
> 1987 442

Hey, thanks for the advice. It's really appreciated. I'm not always the
best when it comes down to making decisions so I thought I'd just ask
the group. I knew someone out there had the answer and as far as the
anti-sway bars, the front has one but the rear doesn't. Any suggestions
as to where I can purchase one?

By the way, I see that you listed you have a 1987 442. To me, that car
is the best 442 ever made. I love everything about it and came close to
owning one a little over a year ago. However, the guy wanted just a
little more than I had at the time. If you're ever in the market to sell
it, I would appreciate it if you kept me in mind.

Many thanks and stay well.

Cailaway@aol.com
1987 Cutlass Supreme
1988 Cutlass Supreme Classic

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 02:53:38 -0600
From: Oldsmagnet <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Re: '81 Hurst/Olds?????

> Well, there is no such thing as an 81 H/O (except for the Hurst prototype but
> that one is unique)

And was an 82, to boot...  And blue...  And in ~no~ way confusable with any
other Olds in the world...  Very cool!

>so.. there is definitely something fishy about this car.

Agreed.  The more I think about it, it's gotta be real, because I think ~I'm~
the only one in the world that would go through that much trouble to make a 
fake
one... (Which I ~haven't~ done... yet...)  Many amateurs will look at the
taillights to determine year ID, and on many cars, is accurate.  (back to the
"SAE 81" thing)  I'd suspected the dealer may have simply used that method to
determine the year.  But the titlework that must take place in their office
should certainly have either verified or conflicted with the '81 status.
Definately fishy.

	<<<SideNote, I almost bought a car several years ago, from the local GM
dealer's ~salesman~ (his own car)  It was an '82.  They had it listed as an '81
(taillight ID) and bluebooked accordingly...  Someone beat me to it, and
probably still doesn't realise the deal they got... (suprising how many will
actually never ~look~ at their titles/registration paperwork...)  >>>

So, again, I put forth with the idea of finding it's true identity.  I have a
hard time believing that it's anything but an '83 H/O.  I suspect all the right
parts and numbers are there, except the VIN.  If you get a chance to take a
~long~ test drive, grab a T15 (?) torx driver, and pull out the 4 torx screws
from the top of the dash *(two are under the speaker grilles...  I'm assuming
all four have been out already...)*  Take a 10mm socket to the bottom of the
dash, on each corner, and loosen those bolts, along with the one to the right 
of
the radio, under the glove box edge.  Just loosen those.  Crap, you'll probably
need to loosen the steering column, too, I suppose.  You should then be able to
pull the top portion of the dash (on driver's side) out (rearward) enough to
expose the entire VIN plate.  I suspect you won't find original GM rivets
holding it in.  If it's like my cars, it's probably held in with two phillips
screws...  (I did that myself...  All legit, correct tags in each car, but
needed some dressing up from rust, scratching, etc...  Amazing the difference 
a
coat of fresh black paint, with a light scuffing of sandpaper over the letters
(to shine 'em up silver) can make...  Looked much better, IMHO, legal or
not...)

Anyway, that'd give you more evidence that it ~was~ changed, or wasn't, which
can help with the correct ID...  (that is, providing you're interested in the
car)  Or, you can do the justice-type thing, and give this information to the
police and the dealer, and conduct a fully legal, and thorough investigation as
to it's true identity (I'm sure the dealer would want to cooperate, when faced
with the knowledge they may have a stolen car on their lot...  Really good for
image, ya know...)

Things to look for would be a build sheet under the carpet, VIN # on the head,
evidence of VIN tamperring, title search on listed VIN, to determine owners,
engine ID, and color, etc.  Look on the body/cowl tag, and compare that with 
the
VIN.  It doesn't have the VIN on it, but there are a few clues, and you might
notice evidence of tamperring.  Up top, there's a reference to the body style
(The set I have in my hand right now (don't ask...) is for VIN
1G3AM47N5BR******, and shows "81 11B 3AM47  R*****" along the top of the cowl
tag.  There's no sequence # matching there, but the 81 should logically be the
year ID, and the 3AM47 should be a direct match with the 3rd-7th VIN digits.

The body tag has two sets of six-digit sequence numbers, neither match the 
VIN's
last six#'s, so don't rely on them.  You might find conflicting color
information there, as well.  By pulling the screws out of the cowl tag, you
should be able to tell if that's been changed, too.  Lots easier to change than
a VIN, but lots less informative.

Now, this sounds like a lot of work if you're not interested in the car, but
having an informed/educated indivudual helping the investigation will yield 
much
more promising results than some half-wit cop trying to stumble through it.  We
know where to look for information on that car, to confirm it's true identity,
and cops may actually allow you to add your input to their job...  If they want
to get a stolen car back to it's original owner...  Either that, or they'll
strip it bare, and still not find what they're looking for...

My guess is you'll find ~tons~ of 83 H/O identification items hidden in there
(might even still be able to discern the door tag) and you'll not have any
problems finding out where it came from, originally....  And if, after ~all~
that, it comes up to be ~not~ stolen, offer the dealer $1500, since it's
essentially worthless with that phony VIN tag in there...

- --
Oldsmagnet - Charley Buehner @ Sidney Montana |\      |-------|
mailto:buehner@lyrea.com To mail direct to me |/\|=|  |   |   |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner See my homepage |\ |=|  |   |   |
   \ | / =========================== \ | /    |<||=|  |   |   |
    \|/  List Removal and Guidelines  \|/     |/ |=|  |  / \  |
     V   ===========================   V      |\/|=|  | / | \ |
  http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner/listfaq.htm   |/      |___|___|

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 04:56:09 -0400
From: Jim & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Subject: Re: W-30 Automatics (was HP question)

To all interested

        Here's the scoop on W-30 auto cars. 67 WAS the first year available.
The only power option available was P/S. I have not seen a 67 W-30 with pwr
brakes. Whoever stated the W-O-G TH400 was the trans is correct. It was a
switch pitch TH400 that had a shift kit installed at the factory. The 68 &
69 W-30's had autos and also could be had with the 328 duration cam. This
would give you the 2300 RPM converter in the trans. No pwr brakes with
those. If you ordered your W-30 auto with P/B then you got a milder cam like
the 70 W-30 auto cars.

Jim Chermack

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 08:11:57 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: UNBOUNCE: ISO '72 Toro PW Switch

Not on the list, respond to ck869@mindspring.com if you can assist.

BTW, I've noticed several replies to these "UNBOUNCE" messages to the list
itself.  Please note that the person in need will not see these unless you
c.c. it to the address I post in the first line.

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:	ck869@mindspring.com

i need the power window switch for a 72 toronado. it is a 4 cluster in =
the armrest drivers door.    email me at ck869@midspring.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 08:13:44 -0400
From: "Dave Cullen" <david.cullen@snet.net>
Subject: Re: Rechroming Bumpers

- -----Original Message-----
From: CCRR12@aol.com <CCRR12@aol.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Saturday, August 15, 1998 6:36 PM
Subject: Rechroming Bumpers
>      Don't give up on your old bumpers. You may be amazed at what these
guys
>can do with them. Regardless, don't exchange your cores unless they are
total
>junk.
>


Absolutely true. There are GOOD chrome shops out there that can make your
original bumper far superior to aftermarket or even factory chrome. There's
one here in Ct. if anybody needs to know.

drc

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 08:21:05 -0400
From: "Dave Cullen" <david.cullen@snet.net>
Subject: Re: DuPont Paint Info Needed

>COUNTER PERSON: "Well, if it's not in THE COMPUTER, we can't mix it."
>
>ME:  "Uh, these are for a 1970 automobile, built and painted _before_ the
PC
>was invented.  Shouldn't the formula be written down somewhere?"
>


You need a new paint shop. Some of them have hand held computer scanners
that can "read" the color from a panel and give the formula for any color
(although I admit, maybe not in laquer). Of course you'd need to have
something that's painted in the color you're looking for. As a minimum they
should have color chips to compare known formulas against.

drc

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 08:22:53 -0400
From: "Dave Cullen" <david.cullen@snet.net>
Subject: Re: '76-79 Wanted

>Just passing this request along......
>
>
>I'm in the market for a 76-79 oldsmobile omega. I live in Northeastern
Ohio.
>Any interested sellers?
>
eeeewww. I had one of those. Wouldn't want another.

drc

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 08:32:01 -0400
From: "Dave Cullen" <david.cullen@snet.net>
Subject: Re: WAS Re: 403 olds flywheel/clutch..now just 403

>      Hollanders doesn't list any 403's in TA's..I've always heard they
were
>put in them..

Go to www.bargainnews.com and search for "403" under American Car Parts, you
get stuff like this:

79 PONTIAC TRANS AM PARTS, 2 Olds 403 motors, complete, 1 running, best
offer; front fenders, $150 pr; other misc parts. (860) 561-5542 Nick (2X).
Hartford

80 PONTIAC BONNEVILLE, gd parts car, 403 motor, 350 trans, 10 bolt posi
rear, 15' rally rims, $375. (718)
441-1347. Woodhaven


>what was the rationale for Pontiac, or for that matter, Olds, to
>use the 400 vs. the 403??? 3 cubic inches is nothing!

Ran outa big blocks? Beats me.

>They would also, in GM
>lingo, probably be 6.6 litres, like 396, 402, 400, 403, correct?   Dorian


Yup. 6.6 litres.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 10:02:41 +0100
From: Matt Cremean <ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
Subject: DMR NATS at Norwalk

Bye guys,

Leaving for Norwalk and taking a video camera!
- --
*************
Matt Cremean
mailto:ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
         777777 33333
            77      33
Cutlass    77    3333   Supreme
          77        33
         77     33333
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/
**************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 10:30:32 EDT
From: <W30442CS@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Registry/ reply

In a message dated 98-08-15 23:12:40 EDT, you write:

>All of us who have W-31's seem quite curious how many are out there, and
>how many are either automatic or 4 gear.
>I personally would like to know how many 70 W-31 4 gears were made and how
>many are still left
>
>So any help appreciated
>
>Thanks List
>
>Robert Schinkel

i have one bob, it`s a 70 4 gear, jim mckeage has one also.  we have had many
discussions on a registry for them and how many were actually left.   how
about it, any other w-31 owners out there?  steven,  w30442cs@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 09:49:50 -0500
From: John Foster <jdfoster@n-link.com>
Subject: 1964  Cutlass Bumpers

Folks,

	I have a set of bumpers (front and rear) for a 1964 cutlass,
with mounting brackets for sale.  The bumpers need to be rechromed.



					John

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 10:43:15 -0400
From: "Michael A. Evans" <evans1@net-link.net>
Subject: Attn.: Doug Newman (Was Re: DMR NATS at Norwalk)

Hey, Doug,

Hey, this sounds like a Doug Newman opportunity.....only a few of us get to
go the DMR Nats, but several list members are headed there with their video
cameras......hmmmmmmmmmm. ;-)



At 10:02 AM 8/16/98 +0100, you wrote:
>Bye guys,
>
>Leaving for Norwalk and taking a video camera!
>--
>*************
>Matt Cremean
>mailto:ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu
>+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
>         777777 33333
>            77      33
>Cutlass    77    3333   Supreme
>          77        33
>         77     33333
>+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
>http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/
>**************************************************
>
>
Mike Evans
Richland, MI

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 10:17:27 -0500
From: "Mark Tupper" <mtupper@palacenet.net>
Subject: Re: Suspension

James,

>I read the standard suspension on the 1987 442 was called a level II
>firm ride suspension system with rear air shock absorbers. Does anyone
>know what kind of suspension this was and what it consisted of?


According to my dealer literature:

Level II Firm Ride and Handling Suspension System, Includes:

Firm Ride Front and Rear Shock Absorbers, Higher Rate Front and
Rear Springs, Larger Front Stabilizer Bar (1.25 in. Diameter), Rear
Stabilizer Bar (.875 in. Diameter) and Special Steering Gear 12.70:1
Steering Ratio.

The option code for this option is F41. If you can find a with this option
in a junk yard, grab the springs & sway bars...upgrade your shocks, and
you should be set...I'm very happy with the ride this (and I've driven in
NY).

- -Mark

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 08:32:29 -0700
From: "mike aldana" <maldana@inreach.com>
Subject: Re: 1964  Cutlass Bumpers

- -----Original Message-----
From: John Foster <jdfoster@n-link.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Sunday, August 16, 1998 7:31 AM
Subject: 1964 Cutlass Bumpers


>Folks,
>
> I have a set of bumpers (front and rear) for a 1964 cutlass,
>with mounting brackets for sale.  The bumpers need to be rechromed.
>
>
>
> John
>
Hello John, i could use a set of bumpers for 64, since i have a customer who
needs good cores for me to plate.. How much are you wanting for the pair??
sincerely  Mike Aldana

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 11:35:16 EDT
From: <JJP442@aol.com>
Subject: Re:  Re: Suspension

If your Cutlass has only a front sway bar, chances are it's dinky, The
Cutlass' with both sway bars were ordered with a sport suspension, comes with
a rear sway bar and a thick front bar. Most speed shops can hook you up with
the sway bars you need they are made by several different companies. There is
a really beefy rear sway bar I saw in  Grand National catolog that I will buy
sometime in the near future it's an 1-1/4" thick it's the only rear
replacement I've seen that is larger than the stock 3/4". I don't have that
co. info right now but I know it exists. I remember it being alittle pricey
but from the looks of it well worth it.
Good luck,
John
JJP442@aol.com
1983 15th Anniversary H/O
1987 442 The perfect "10"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 11:47:42 -0400
From: "Mike Rothe." <hurstolds@xtalwind.net>
Subject: Re: '81 Hurst/Olds?????

Along with checking the engine ID numbers against the VIN, check the tag
on the passenger side of the tranny.  I believe "OZ" will be the correct
code for an 83 Hurst.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 09:15:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: JM <super442@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Musclecar newsletter

- ---Jon442@aol.com wrote:
>
> Hey, gang
>
> I am starting a newsletter devoted to all musclecars. Check it out at:
>
> http://members.aol.com/mupdate
>
> I would appreciate your support.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jon
>
- ----I keep getting an error code, anybody else having problems with
this?
         John
==
mailto:super442@yahoo.com           ICQ # 16956740
1985 Cutlass-----T-Tops--307 H.O./3.73--http://members.tripod.com/~SuperOlds/
1984 Cutlass-Moonroof--307 http://members.tripod.com/~SuperOlds/PatsCar.html
1982 Cutlass Cruiser Wagon(g-body)--soon to be 403!



_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 12:45:56 -0400
From: Jeffrey lane <bladernr@roava.net>
Subject: Re: Separating out the Olds from the chaff :was the ( ! ) thing

Sorry it has taken so long to reply to this...

Yes, I am thinking that this is what it is...  I looked this morning and
noticed that the carb is leaking gas...  also the choke is dead.  So I
have a feeling that if I rebuild the carb (or replace it) and put a new
choke on it, all shall be well...

But What do you guys reccommend I do about the carb???  is it easy to
rebuild (I havent rebuilt a carb in almost a decade), or should I just
buy a rebuilt one.  or even a new one (though prolly not a rochester)

any suggestions??

Peter Berusch wrote:
>
>   '67 Toro doesn't start right away?  Sounds like flooding or vapor lock -
> different ends of the spectrum.  Your car came with a Rochester Bogmaster
> 4bbl.  Perhaps the fuel wells are leaking down, demanding much cranking to
> introduce enough gas to cover the jets.  Then it would run a little cobby
> for a few seconds until the fuel level in the carb rises to the neccessary
> level to make a good mixture.  Does choke set/open properly?  Does pull-off
> work?  If you feel that fuel is the culprit, look at these things.  Peter.

- --
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> 67 Toronado  ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>

Jeffrey Lane, EMT-ST	ICQ#12362327	http://www.roava.net/~bladernr
			bladernr@roava.net 	EMTBoy9@aol.com


Sr. Sergeant, Equipment Officer	|	EMT-ST/Driver
Fort Lewis Rescue Squad, Inc.		|	United Ambulance Service
Salem, Virginia				|	Roanoke, Virginia

"Knowledge is power.  But power corrupts, and corruption is a sin, so if
you seek knowledge, you will burn in hell. . ."

- -------------------------------Carpe
Noctum------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 12:53:56 -0400
From: Jeffrey lane <bladernr@roava.net>
Subject: Re: Separating out the Olds from the chaff :was the ( ! ) thing

Hey Karl, sorry it take so long to write back...

KarlAune@aol.com wrote:
>
> We essentially have the same motor. Just different carbs.
>
> Describe a normal start-up in detail.
> Include when and how often any pedal-stomps occur.

turn key, it roars and dies...  turn again, crank crank crank...
nothing...  pump gas a few times...  turn key roar sputter sputter...
pucm more gas...  turn key, roar...  then it sputters till it warms
up...  doesnt idle very well cold...  though I am beginning to think
that I need to rebuild the carb...  any advice???


>
> Also when was the last time anything was done to your ignition system?
> I mean plugs, wires, points, cap & rotor (Karl not know HEI!), as well as 
batt
> and starter.

The points, wires and capand rotor were replaced a couple days before I
bought her (about three weeks ago) and I put new plugs in her about a
week ago...  Batter is less than a year old and starter is only about a
year and a half old...

>
> Also; do you know how old your batt cables are?
>
no idea...  not factory, but not too new either...

Thanks,
Jeff
- --
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> 67 Toronado  ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>

Jeffrey Lane, EMT-ST	ICQ#12362327	http://www.roava.net/~bladernr
			bladernr@roava.net 	EMTBoy9@aol.com


Sr. Sergeant, Equipment Officer	|	EMT-ST/Driver
Fort Lewis Rescue Squad, Inc.		|	United Ambulance Service
Salem, Virginia				|	Roanoke, Virginia

"Knowledge is power.  But power corrupts, and corruption is a sin, so if
you seek knowledge, you will burn in hell. . ."

- -------------------------------Carpe
Noctum------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 12:55:41 EDT
From: <Juz440@aol.com>
Subject: 442 Search

Anyone have any leads to a 67 442 convertible?  Here's the catch- it HAS to be
yellow(safron) on yellow(saffron), matching numbers and automatic.  Any help
in my search would ne appreciated.

Thanks,
Bob

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 13:14:15 -0400
From: Jeffrey lane <bladernr@roava.net>
Subject: Re: wow

yeah, cops are the only worry, well, that and having to buy new
tires...  cause I think I am gonna buy 255's when I do, so I will have
to buy four...  now just need new exaust, and rebuild the carb, and
hse'll be good to go...

Jeff

Bob Blanchard wrote:
>
> >So from a stop, I floored it...  I swear that the tires actually spun
> >for at least 100 yards...  if not more...  I am surprised I even have
> >tires left on the front...  heh heh...  what can I say, I couldnt
> >resist.
>
> Try it at a red light. The look on other peoples faces, when they see a FWD
> car
> Smoke the tires for about 1/2 a block, is just priceless.
>
> watch out for cops :(
> __
> Bob.
> '66 Vista Cruiser
> (rebuilt, not restored)

- --
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> 67 Toronado  ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>

Jeffrey Lane, EMT-ST	ICQ#12362327	http://www.roava.net/~bladernr
			bladernr@roava.net 	EMTBoy9@aol.com


Sr. Sergeant, Equipment Officer	|	EMT-ST/Driver
Fort Lewis Rescue Squad, Inc.		|	United Ambulance Service
Salem, Virginia				|	Roanoke, Virginia

"Knowledge is power.  But power corrupts, and corruption is a sin, so if
you seek knowledge, you will burn in hell. . ."

- -------------------------------Carpe
Noctum------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 13:04:20 +0000
From: Jim Connerly <jdconner@ccia.com>
Subject: '72 Toro PW Switch

Hi

I just found a salvage yard north of Pitts. Pa that has about 200 acres of
cars, a lot of older ones of all makes. I found the interior parts for my 86
Toro there and I saw a few older ones there.
 I have to go down there this week to take off my parts I'll see if they have
a 72. The only trouble is everything is sold as is,  and you have to take it
off (first you have to find it, everything is scattered everywhere). I'm sure
they have one there, so if you still need it let me know and I'll see what i
can do while I'm there, probably thursday of this week.

I did not see any 66-69 Toro's but I bet if I looked hard enough there are
some, there are thousands of older cars there, they don't seem to scrape
anything. There are a lot of older Cutlass also, ran across a 68 442 hood,
with louvers and all, in great shape except for the paint.

Jim Connerly
jdconner@ccia.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 13:52:43 +0000
From: Jim Connerly <jdconner@ccia.com>
Subject: 84 442 for sale

Hi

I was out driving in the country today and saw a 84 442 at a small used car
lot. It looked in great shape, black, T-top, auto, ac, factory wheels, dark
wine interior, cloth buckets and console. the speedometer read 43,900. Anybody
looking, I wrote down the phone number and the car's serial number. No idea
what they are asking.

Jim Connerly
jdconner@ccia.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 14:11:47 -0400
From: "Dave Cullen" <david.cullen@snet.net>
Subject: Re: 84 442 for sale

- -----Original Message-----
From: Jim Connerly <jdconner@ccia.com>


>Hi
>
>I was out driving in the country today and saw a 84 442 at a small used car
>lot.

And what country would that be? US or Canada?

drc

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 14:34:59 -0400
From: "James E. O'Donnell" <CaIlaway@sprintmail.com>
Subject: John and Mark

Gentlemen,

Thanks for the information and specifications reguarding my suspension
questions. Your answers and suggestions are greatly appreciated and are
always welcomed. I'll let you know how I make out.

Stay well,

Jimmy

Cailaway@aol.com
1987 Cutlass Supreme - my dependable work trooper
1988 Cutlass Supreme Classic - my pride and joy
1987 442 - my dream

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 14:36:50 EDT
From: <KarlAune@aol.com>
Subject: Car Probs was Re: Separating out the Olds from the ...

In a message dated 98-08-16 12:33:56 EDT, you write:

Replying to Peter Berusch's post saying it might be flooding or vapor lock.

<< Yes, I am thinking that this is what it is...  I looked this morning and
noticed that the carb is leaking gas...  also the choke is dead.  So I have a
feeling that if I rebuild the carb (or replace it) and put a new choke on it,
all shall be well...

 But What do you guys reccommend I do about the carb???  is it easy to rebuild
(I havent rebuilt a carb in almost a decade), or should I just buy a rebuilt
one.  or even a new one (though prolly not a rochester). any suggestions?? >>

I had to "adjust" your footer (following) so it *might* appear straight in
this post.
I thought it was cool.
But then again, aol is probably way different from all others....

Anyway.
Carb leaking gas........from where?
inlet or base (throttle), these are two different problems.
The inlet leak is either a loose fitting, or (not that uncommon) a stripped
inlet thread.
The stripped inlet fitting is not uncommon as the carb is mainly made of "pot"
metal.

The best fix for this is to use a self-tapping fitting which has oversize
threads. This is available at the better parts stores (yes, several sizes.
Know thy inlet size!) under the HELP! and maybe other names (Karl is using an
inlet fitting by another brand and has "HELP!" as a spare).

"Carb ... leaking....Choke dead"
I do not know what you mean by "choke dead", but part of rebuilding a carb is
ensuring that the various "connecting rods" on the carb (if you will) make the
necessary motivations (open the butterfly valve just so......). But this
requires an operational choke....

Yes you may use other brands of carburetor.
There seems to be a limited knowledge base for Carter carburetors.
Edelbrock's line of carburetors semms to have functional similarities to Roch
Q-jets.
(Do not hold me to that. That is a hallucination based on the Edelbrock
Catalog page that has carb parts for Edelbrock and Q-Jet together!)
However, it is important that you know that not all other carbs have an
adequate idle and off-idle system. Apparently, (at least some) Holley models
lack an off-idle system. [bogs on accelleration]

BTW due to recent information, avoid Rochester Q-jet 17065XXX.
If you in fact have one or desire a replacement.

And of course good luck to you;

<<
 Sr. Sergeant, Equipment Officer	|	EMT-ST/Driver
 Fort Lewis Rescue Squad, Inc.	|	United Ambulance Service
 Salem, Virginia				      |	Roanoke, 
Virginia

 "Knowledge is power.  But power corrupts, and corruption is a sin, so if
 you seek knowledge, you will burn in hell. . ."

 -------------------------------Carpe Noctum------------------------------  >>

I like that!

SOM
&KA

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 15:06:32 +0000
From: Jim Connerly <jdconner@ccia.com>
Subject: Re: 84 442 for sale

Hi,

Sorry, it is in Unity, Ohio, which is about 100 miles south of Cleveland Oh.
USA. near the Pa. border.

Jim C.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 21:07:08
From: <crl6420@online.no>
Subject: wheels...how big???

Hello...

are there room for 8x15" wheels -
(with 3,5" backsp.) in the rear of a - 81 cutlass
calais ?
now i`m driving it on 7x15" camaro wheels (Hey...
they were laying around...) with 245`s, but they
have 4" backsp. looks to me that there is room
for more. if there are, what tire size are recomended
for this, 255...or maybe 265`s ???

Thanx for your time...

Chris
cutlass calais -81 (350/350)
cutlass cruiser -80 (307/200R4 from -84 H/O)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 15:16:29 -0400
From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@nbn.net>
Subject: Re: '81 Hurst/Olds?????

RANDY A GEISEL wrote:
>
> Paul,
>
> The dealer wouldn't happen to be Bayliss on rte 61 would it?
>
> Randy

Randy,

No, its a small used car dealer East of Myerstown called Autoland
International or something like that.  Does Bayliss have a Hurst, too?

Paul
- --
Paul Hartlieb
Myerstown, PA
mailto:plh@nbn.net

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 15:17:37 EDT
From: <KarlAune@aol.com>
Subject: Same Carb Problem....

In a message dated 98-08-16 12:41:56 EDT, you write:

<< Hey Karl, sorry it take so long to write back...

Well, I can tell by the To: adress that it is not just me...

 Karl wrote:
 >We essentially have the same motor. Just different carbs.
 >
 > Describe a normal start-up in detail.

 turn key, it roars and dies...  turn again, crank crank crank... nothing...
pump gas a few times...  turn key roar sputter sputter... pucm more gas...
turn key, roar...  then it sputters till it warms up...  doesnt idle very well
cold...  though I am beginning to think that I need to rebuild the carb...
any advice???

 The points, wires and capand rotor were replaced a couple days before I
bought her (about three weeks ago) and I put new plugs in her about a week
ago...  Batter is less than a year old and starter is only about a year and a
half old...  >>

Ummm.

To be frank SOM does not Idle well cold,  but (I think) that is my fault for
not by-passing the factory resistor wire to the coil (which is now an Accell
Super Coil with its own ballast resistor). Either that or I replaced the choke
indicator (whatever you call it) on my 2gc improperly when I rebuilt it.

But your situ sounds like a different kettle of fish (sorry, Norwegian
heritage). Initial crank fires and dies and do not want to start again?

This could be a few things....(Karl tries to remember what your carb is)....
Aha!

<< Why does my '67 Toro not start right away? >>

Hmmm.
Probably not a design flaw as GM had all of 1966 to improve on the
introductory 1966 Q-jet.

What is really odd is that it fires right away and then does not want to
start....

In this case I am tempted to say that you do need a carb job, BUT

1) Your idle system would not be improved that much as they are essentially
holes and passages. Idle system "meters" out the same amount of gas under most
all circumstances. (Anyone disagree??)

2) OTOH It could be that the choke is 'waaaaay out of adjustment (closed) and
it fires right away because enough air has slipped past the closed throttle
plates while the car was off. (Uh Anyone??)

3)  Battery and starter seem to be safe because it typically fires right
away...
           Likewise for cap/rotor/plugs/wires.......

So, what happens during startup that sdoes not happen during operation?

(It does operate smoothly? Does not die at unfortunate moments?)

My only thoughts go this way:

Either your choke is set improperly (you can adjust it! loosen three reatining
screws and turn the big black dial to read richer/leaner - if it is still
properly connected to the choke coil inside the housing)

Or! (Karl kinda reaching here. 1965 and 1966 cars (and, I assume 1967) have a
steel line between fuel pump and carburetor. If this line is rusted and
leaking then there would be a growing amount of air in the line between starts
and car would start only because some gas in cylinders and carb fuel bowl, but
die if fuel bowl low until fuel pump fills again and...

Hey!

Wait a sec!

Arent you the same guy that said your carb was leaking?

<< I looked this morning and noticed that the carb is leaking gas... >>

Well that is your central problem!

It is like the old expression:

Computers run on smoke!
How do I know?
When the smoke escapes, they stop working!
Simple!

Seriously.
Be certain where the leak is before you replace anything.
If there are Limited parts by you, I can provide the self-tapping oversize
thread fitting. From my Run Of The Mill parts store no less.
(they continue to astound me with the parts that they actually have.......)

Good Luck

And, in accordance with my work schedule;

Carpe Noctem!
(Yah. Gonna have to look up the right ending for that application...
later....)

SOM
&KA

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 15:19:28 -0400
From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@nbn.net>
Subject: Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 #1429

Charles A. Dempsey wrote:
>
> Paul Hartlieb <plh@nbn.net> wrote:
>
> > Michael A. Evans wrote:
> > >
> > > If it's an '81 VIN, it's obviously a fake Hurst/Olds,

> The grille on an '81 is a 4X6 pattern and the '83 is something like a
> 16X16 pattern. Curious that someone would go to so much trouble to fake
> a non-existant H/O.
>
> Charles

I looked very closely at the grilles and knew right away that they were
'83s.  I think too that it was an awful lot of trouble to go to to make
a clone.  Especially the Lightning Rods.  Still gotta go check that VIN
again.  Hopfully they'll have it unlocked...

Paul
- --
Paul Hartlieb
Myerstown, PA
mailto:plh@nbn.net

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 13:26:10 -0600
From: Oldsmagnet <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: RE: ISO '72 Toro PW Switch (Is '73 same???)

Keeping this cc'd to the list right now, incase anyone can answer this 
question.

I have a '73 Toro that's in process of parting out.  If the door cluster is the
same, I'd pull it out, etc.  Does anyone know for sure if they are identical,
similar, close, etc?

>> I need the power window switch for a 72 toronado. it is a 4 cluster
>> in the armrest drivers door.
>> mailto:ck869@midspring.com

- --
Oldsmagnet - Charley Buehner @ Sidney Montana |\      |-------|
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 13:31:15 -0600
From: Oldsmagnet <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Re: wheels...how big???

> are there room for 8x15" wheels -
> (with 3,5" backsp.) in the rear of a - 81 cutlass
> calais ?

Not sure about actual backspacing specs there, but I ran 295-50R15's on 15X7
SSII's, and they were ~tight~ (That's alot of rubber!!!)  They rubbed the 1/4
panel ~and~ the inner wheelwells (alternately) on corners.  They'd physically
~fit~ in there, but it was ~tight~

Also, 15X8's will probably fit with some tires, but not with others.  You'll
want to keep that in mind, if you have a specific set in mind.

- --
Oldsmagnet - Charley Buehner @ Sidney Montana |\      |-------|
mailto:buehner@lyrea.com To mail direct to me |/\|=|  |   |   |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner See my homepage |\ |=|  |   |   |
   \ | / =========================== \ | /    |<||=|  |   |   |
    \|/  List Removal and Guidelines  \|/     |/ |=|  |  / \  |
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 12:42:43 -0700
From: babyboo@pacbell.net
Subject: Re: Musclecar newsletter

I looked at it, it came up for me just fine.

JM wrote:

> ---Jon442@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > Hey, gang
> >
> > I am starting a newsletter devoted to all musclecars. Check it out at:
> >
> > http://members.aol.com/mupdate
> >
> > I would appreciate your support.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Jon
> >
> ----I keep getting an error code, anybody else having problems with
> this?
>          John
> ==
> mailto:super442@yahoo.com           ICQ # 16956740
> 1985 Cutlass-----T-Tops--307 H.O./3.73--http://members.tripod.com/~SuperOlds/
> 1984 Cutlass-Moonroof--307 http://members.tripod.com/~SuperOlds/PatsCar.html
> 1982 Cutlass Cruiser Wagon(g-body)--soon to be 403!
>
>
> _________________________________________________________
> DO YOU YAHOO!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #1430
*********************************
