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Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #1540


oldsmobile-digest      Thursday, October 8 1998      Volume 01 : Number 1540



POR-15
200 mph speedometer
Re: 200 mph speedometer
Re: 69 fender (inside color) and lower support bracket
Re: Olds and Holley
Axle for 66 Olds 98
Re: Olds Tri-power
Non-Olds related humor
Chicago Tribune 10/8/1998 Cars Section
Re: Need 1976 carb info!
Re: POR-15
Re: 200 mph speedometer
Re: Chicago Tribune 10/8/1998 Cars Section
Re: Chicago Tribune 10/8/1998 Cars Section
Re: Need 1976 carb info!
Re: POR-15
POR 15
Re: POR-15
Re: F*ord joke -
Re: Olds and Holley
Re: POR 15
new toro owner
Re: Olds and Holley
Re: POR 15
A body Motor Stance
Re: Chicago Tribune 10/8/1998 Cars Section
Re: H*LP NEEDED, WANTED (and BADLY)
Re: Olds Tri-power
ADMIN: How to Turn HTML Off?
UNBOUNCE: Need '66 Full-size Axle
Re: Olds Tri-power
Re: Olds and Holley
Re:  tragic story
Re: 68-72 Cutlass Inner (Upper?) Trailing Arm Size
Re:  Re: Performance Exhaust 1985 442
1970 Vista Cruiser info
Re: 69 fender (inside color) and lower support bracket
Re: new toro owner
e-mail to BEN, regarding 455
Re: Performance Exhaust 1985 442
RE: Re: Performance Exhaust 1985 442
Re: F*ord joke -
Re: Performance Exhaust 1985 442
Re: tragic story
Re: RocketTalk tomorrow?
One mans conquest with an Oldsmobile.
Re: Repro H/O emblems
Don't talk smack, boy!! (Re: RocketTalk tomorrow?)
Re: One mans conquest with an Oldsmobile.
Re: Don't talk smack, boy!! (Re: RocketTalk tomorrow?)
Re: One mans conquest with an Oldsmobile.
Re: Performance Exhaust 1985 442
Re: Don't talk smack, boy!! (Re: RocketTalk tomorrow?)
Re: ADMIN: How to Turn HTML Off?
Re:  Re: Performance Exhaust 1985 442
Re: One mans conquest with an Oldsmobile.
Re: Olds and Holley
RE: tragic story
RE: Rally Pack -- definition wanted
Cam selection, 455
G-Body Rear disks
Re: Cam selection, 455
Re: Rally Pack -- definition wanted
Re: Don't talk smack, boy!! (Re: RocketTalk tomorrow?)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 12:02:01 +0000
From: pipe <banner@kwom.com>
Subject: POR-15

Does anybody have any experience with POR-15? Good or bad? I just bought
some and
I am testing it for myself. But would like to know what I can expect
from it. They are
correct about "Only TIME removes it from your skin".

James Aiello
(if you say the letters I-L-O you
  have successfully pronounced my last
  name.)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 13:03:58 EDT
From: Cutw29@aol.com
Subject: 200 mph speedometer

I was looking through Hemmings the other day and I saw an add in the olds
parts for a rare factory 200 mph speedometer.  Not to sound stupid but how
could you get it?  Was it part of the Hurst Olds for 72?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 13:30:52 +0100
From: Matt Cremean <creme1ma@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu>
Subject: Re: 200 mph speedometer

Cutw29@aol.com wrote:
>
> I was looking through Hemmings the other day and I saw an add in the olds
> parts for a rare factory 200 mph speedometer.  Not to sound stupid but how
> could you get it?  Was it part of the Hurst Olds for 72?

I have honestly never even heard of such a thing. Why would you even
want a 200 mph speedo? If I were going that fast, I wouldn't want to
know!!!! As far as I know, 120 is the highest factory speed from Olds.

- --
*************
Matt Cremean
mailto:creme1ma@cmich.edu
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
1975 Cutlass S Hardtop Coupe (250 L-6 1bbl) "parts car"
1973 Cutlass Supreme Hardtop Coupe (350 V-8 4bbl) "The Oldsmoslow"
1970 Cutlass S Holiday Coupe (350 V-8 2bbl) "The Unit"
1983 Ch*vrolet C*price (305 V-8 4bbl) "The Blue Taxi"
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/
**************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 13:31:41 EDT
From: W30442CS@aol.com
Subject: Re: 69 fender (inside color) and lower support bracket

In a message dated 98-10-08 11:40:25 EDT, you write:

>If you run your hand under the front fender, below the marker lights, it's
>the piece that the fender mounts to. Two 1/2" or 9/16" bolts are used.
>
>Randy
>
>P.S. I may have a good set off of a 72 Supreme if you can't find new ones.
>let me know and I'll check the condition of them.
>
>

randy, i think these are diff. from 70-72 models.  68-69 i believe are the
same.     ps. mike  i think i have some on a parts car.   steven,
w30442cs@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 13:50:10 -0400
From: Jim Olson <jolson@edzone.net>
Subject: Re: Olds and Holley

Just my .02,

I have owned one Holley. It was an 1850 600cfm. I had it on a mild 396
about 14-15 years ago, and it was a GREAT carb! I got respectable
mileage with it and lots of power. Instant response and very very easy
to work on.

Jim...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 13:51:41 EDT
From: MrCraigMan@aol.com
Subject: Axle for 66 Olds 98

Hey Guys and Gals,

I have a friend here with a busted axle for a 66 Olds 98. He lives in Durham,
NC. He is contemplating replacing the entire rear end if that seems to be more
economical. He doesn't subscribe to the list but I am going to try to get him
on. Until then, I need some help on this as I have never dealt with it before.
If anyone can point me in the right directio, please do so!

Also, I am a digest member, so if you post please CC me a copy to my email
address above in addition to the list. I might not get the list as I only read
them as time permits...

Thanks

Craig M. Seman
Charlotte, NC!
77 Cutlass Supreme Brougham
97 Aurora

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 13:51:39 EDT
From: KarlAune@aol.com
Subject: Re: Olds Tri-power

In a message dated 98-10-07 17:30:12 EDT, you write:

<< Thanks for the responses! Unfortunately I was afraid that the answer was
 no. I can lay my hands on a J-2 manifold if I want it, but since it won't
work,
 that's not an option. I knew the '66 tri-power manifold would work, but given
my
 initial lack of success in finding one I have been seeking a close
replacement. Alas, it is not to be.
  So, given the collective knowledge here, what kind of challenges am I
 facing trying to find a 1966 w30 tri-power manifold, functioning carbs and
linkage? Is it even worth the effort? Where or what would be a good source of
detailed info on
 this setup? TIA

 Norm Baier
 Woodstock, GA >>

Yes, it is worth the effort, but also worth $1,000 - $5000 or so depending on
correctness!

Who is the contact for the J-2??

Please??

SOM

&KA

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 11:05:04 -0700
From: "Bruce Camilli" <bcam@vel.net>
Subject: Non-Olds related humor

Thought you all may enjoy a break from the Olds material!



A Challenge!


Here's problem:


    There was a perfect man who met a perfect woman.  After a perfect
courtship, they had a perfect wedding.  Their life together was, of
course,
perfect.
    One snowy, stormy Christmas Eve, this perfect couple was driving
their
perfect car (a Grand Cherokee{some may disagree, but for sake of argument
let's
proceed}) along a winding road when they noticed someone at the side of
the
road in distress.
        Being the perfect couple, they stopped to help. There stood Santa
Claus
with a huge bundle of toys.  Not wanting to disappoint any children on
the eve of Christmas, the perfect couple loaded Santa and his toys into
their
vehicle.

    Soon they were driving along delivering the toys.  Unfortunately,
the driving conditions deteriorated and the perfect couple and Santa
Claus had an  accident.  Only one of them survived the accident.  Who
was the
survivor?


      (Scroll down  for the answer.)









    The perfect woman.  She's the only one that really existed in the
first place.

    Everyone knows there is no Santa Claus and there is no such thing as
a perfect man...


    (E-mail ends here for Women!!!  Men, keep scrolling.)
















    So, if there is no perfect man and no Santa Claus, the perfect woman
must have been driving.  This explains why there was a car accident.


    (By the way if you're a woman, and you're reading this...
My other point is....women never listen.......)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 11:07:51 PDT
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: Chicago Tribune 10/8/1998 Cars Section

...is recommended reading. The cover story is on muscle cars,
and they chose for a photo a huge, foot-wide picture of the
nose of a 4-4-2, complete with under-bumper air intakes, etc.
According to the caption, the car itself is from the Volo Auto
Museum in Volo, IL, so it might even be for sale, since the
place sells cars on consignment.

- -- Andy

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:17:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: jtherndon@webtv.net (Jeff Herndon)
Subject: Re: Need 1976 carb info!

Karl,

I'm looking at the Haynes and Chilton Cutlass books, and found some info
you might can use.

Engines:

Chilton lists 4 motors: 250 cid V-6 (Che'y), 260, 350 and 455 cid V-8's
(all Olds). Haynes only lists the V-8's, no V-6. One is obviously wrong,
not sure which one.

Carbs:

Both books list a plethora (sp?) of carb #'s. I'll try to break it down.
MV type - only listed in Chilton, so I assume V-6 application. #'s all
are 17056***; lists 6 different models.
2GC-GE-GV type - apparently 260 V-8 application. Haynes has 6 types
listed, all again 17056*** (I sense a pattern here). Chilton's groups
'76 and '77 years together, 4 with 17056*** and 9 with 17057***. Are #'s
with a "6" for '76? I dunno.
2MC, M2MC, M2ME, E2ME, E2MC - both books haxe 9 models, also 17056***.
M4MC, E4ME, E4MC - 350 and 455 Applications. Both books list 16 models
with 17056***. Chilton has 6 with 17057**, but again they group '76 and
'77.

This is prolly not the best source for info. I'm sure a factory service
manual for the '76 Cutlass would be more useful, but I just wanted to
pass along what I have.

BTW, what does SOM stand for? Just curious.

Jeff Herndon
86 CS 307Y

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 13:28:49 -0500
From: "Peter Landowski" <PETTRIX@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: POR-15

I used the POR stuff on my 72 442. I used it to paint the entire
frame(front to back) and the the whole undercarriage. This was done when
the motor/trans & rearend was out. It came out looking like if I did a
frame-off resto. The frame is gloss black and the florrpans are semi-gloss
balck. The stuff looks and sticks great. It will not chip off very easily.
The only thing you must make sure(as with any painting) is to prep the
SUFRACE correctly(as stated in the POR directions). It does like a rougher
surface better than a smooth surface.  Wear gloves, long sleeved shirt and
EYE PROTECTION. Especially if you will be painting the car underneath and
will be on a creeper, like I was.
Pettrix@prodigy.net

- ----------
> From: pipe <banner@kwom.com>
> To: Olds Questions <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Subject: POR-15
> Date: Thursday, October 08, 1998 7:02 AM
>
> Does anybody have any experience with POR-15? Good or bad? I just bought
> some and
> I am testing it for myself. But would like to know what I can expect
> from it. They are
> correct about "Only TIME removes it from your skin".
>
> James Aiello
> (if you say the letters I-L-O you
>   have successfully pronounced my last
>   name.)
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 13:30:01 -0500
From: "Peter Landowski" <PETTRIX@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: 200 mph speedometer

yeah 200mph is a too fast for a stock suspension A body. Add 4 wheel drum
brakes and you got a runaway train!!
Pettrix@prodigy.net

- ----------
> From: Matt Cremean <creme1ma@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: 200 mph speedometer
> Date: Thursday, October 08, 1998 7:30 AM
>
> Cutw29@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > I was looking through Hemmings the other day and I saw an add in the
olds
> > parts for a rare factory 200 mph speedometer.  Not to sound stupid but
how
> > could you get it?  Was it part of the Hurst Olds for 72?
>
> I have honestly never even heard of such a thing. Why would you even
> want a 200 mph speedo? If I were going that fast, I wouldn't want to
> know!!!! As far as I know, 120 is the highest factory speed from Olds.
>
> --
> *************
> Matt Cremean
> mailto:creme1ma@cmich.edu
> +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
> 1975 Cutlass S Hardtop Coupe (250 L-6 1bbl) "parts car"
> 1973 Cutlass Supreme Hardtop Coupe (350 V-8 4bbl) "The Oldsmoslow"
> 1970 Cutlass S Holiday Coupe (350 V-8 2bbl) "The Unit"
> 1983 Ch*vrolet C*price (305 V-8 4bbl) "The Blue Taxi"
> +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
> http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/
> **************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:32:57 EDT
From: KarlAune@aol.com
Subject: Re: Chicago Tribune 10/8/1998 Cars Section

In a message dated 98-10-08 14:10:46 EDT, you write:

<< ...is recommended reading. The cover story is on muscle cars, and they
chose for a photo a huge, foot-wide picture of the nose of a 4-4-2, complete
with under-bumper air intakes, etc. According to the caption, the car itself
is from the Volo Auto
 Museum in Volo, IL, so it might even be for sale, since the place sells cars
on consignment. >>

Karl WAS going to send this info to Andy direct.

But you-all should hear it as well.

Below the beautiful photo of the 4 4 2 (70 or 71??) [Karl always mistakes the
68-72 years] is a blurb that names musclecars from 1964-1971.

The 4 4 2 is named in 1964. ONLY!
When it was a 330cid 310hp engine!

"1965:Ch*tty Wallaby SS 396 - 325hp
Ch*tty Noway SS 327 - 275hp
Duck the Comet 500 - 235hp
rustang 289/271 - 271hp
Catamaran - 421 tri-power - 290hp."

NO 4 4 2 mentioned!

HELLO?
IF SOM came from the factory with the 98 OR Starfire motor options, both were
MORE hp than the damn wallaby!
As is SOM was 310 and thus much more than the pathetic Pontoon attempt at a
tripower!

FURTHERMORE!
1966 does not mention 4 4 2 either!

Though the Hemi's, Biscayne, and Ford's 500XL  had hp ratings that embarass
the W-30, the tri-power still merits a mention!

Posting a BIG pic of a beautiful 4 4 2 is not an excuse for snubbing it in the
article or blurb!!!

(((I'm so angry I forgot to write Karl instead!!!!)))


SOM

&KA
ICQ # (Damn net probs again!)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 13:48:16 +0000
From: MB0 <MB0@americancentury.com>
Subject: Re: Chicago Tribune 10/8/1998 Cars Section

Below the beautiful photo of the 4 4 2 (70 or 71??) [Karl always
mistakes the
68-72 years] is a blurb that names musclecars from 1964-1971.


___


It's actually a '69. The silver 442 grill threw  me off, too. Focus on
the bumper.
And what's up with that horrid color scheme??
Just my $.02.

Mike Baugher
69 Cutlass S convertible

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:49:14 EDT
From: KarlAune@aol.com
Subject: Re: Need 1976 carb info!

Jeff Herndon wrote:

<< Chilton lists 4 motors: 250 cid V-6 (Che'y), 260, 350 and 455 cid V-8's
(all Olds). Haynes only lists the V-8's, no V-6. One is obviously wrong, not
sure which one.
  Carbs: >>

A lot of info with the important part of the carb #s asterixed.

Jeff,
 If you would be good enough to send me (privately!!) the details of all the
carb #s and the listed apps in brief, Karl would be most appreciative.

Further, Karl would consider it a favor.
Compensation to be determined in further private posts!

This is the best info seen yet. Karl was on verge of walking through Random
yardes this morning, looking for 1976 Salons!

Rochester-related aside;

As a V-6 was available, but was a chevvy V6, Carb # for the chevy would be
17056X10 (Karl thinks).

While Roch # for the 76 Salon is back to17056351 or 17056252 due to the
existence of the 260.

Karl believes carb to be 750cfm Q-Jet, making carb # 17056252!!!

But, we'll see!

((incredulously)) No-one has this car???

SOM

&KA

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 15:12:34 EDT
From: Jon442@aol.com
Subject: Re: POR-15

In a message dated 10/8/98 11:51:46 AM Central Daylight Time, banner@kwom.com
writes:

<< Does anybody have any experience with POR-15? Good or bad?  >>

I have done several restorations, and would not consider doing one without
POR15. I have the frame sandblasted and then I POR it. I also use it on the
insides of the fenders down low where they have a tendency to rust, and I use
the clear version on the backs of the rechromed bumpers. Great stuff.

Jon Wessel

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 12:27:33 -0700
From: Chris Sparks <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Subject: POR 15

I just read here on the list that POR 15 comes in clear.  Couldn't you
just
use it anyway to keep rust off.  Say spray a whole bumper.  Shoot a car
after it has been painted.

What do y'all think?

BTW who sells this stuff?


- --
Chris Sparks
68 442 SC - Frosty
68 442 HT - Scarlet
68 442 HT - Saffron
82 DRB    - Dr. "B"
http://www.catalina-inter.net/mrada

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 15:32:28 EDT
From: COUPEKING@aol.com
Subject: Re: POR-15

Good product. Have used for years with great success. The silver is a good
'filler' for seams and floors. I like the black for frame rails and gas tank
straps and the like.

I use gloves with it.

Peter

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 15:46:10 EDT
From: Supafli50@aol.com
Subject: Re: F*ord joke -

This brings up a good question.  Which was the better invention?  Tehy both
take money to keep going..
Matt
88 Olds Cutlass Supreme int.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 16:37:18 EDT
From: GT5726@aol.com
Subject: Re: Olds and Holley

I agree....I have had excellent results using Holley Carburetors. I am
currently having very good results with my Edelbrock (Carter W/
polishing...)Carburetor. I can honestly say that the cars that I've owned with
Rochester "Quadrajunks", have ALWAYS run better with a Holley or Carter.
again...these are my experiences and opinions...Collyn

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 16:44:35 EDT
From: Jon442@aol.com
Subject: Re: POR 15

In a message dated 10/8/98 2:31:07 PM Central Daylight Time, mrada@catalina-
inter.net writes:

<< I just read here on the list that POR 15 comes in clear.  Couldn't you
 just
 use it anyway to keep rust off.  Say spray a whole bumper.  Shoot a car
 after it has been painted.

 What do y'all think?

 BTW who sells this stuff? >>

POR is not intended as a finish coat. It dries hard as a rock and cannot be
sanded. Plus, about the only thing that will harm it is ultraviolet light. So,
if it is exposed to sunlight, it must be painted over. Its main function is to
stop rust, hence the name (Paint Over Rust). They make a product called Perlux
that can be applied over chrome that is supposed to be completely clear and
offer a lot of protection. I ordered some for my new wheels, but have not used
it yet.

You can find our more, and order, at their website: http://www.por15.com

Jon

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 16:43:44 -0400
From: Brad Burns <BBurns@MAIL.COLGATE.EDU>
Subject: new toro owner

I just purchased my first olds Toronado after many years of looking for
the right car.  It is a '68 deluxe and it has 84k miles and in excellent
original condition and in fact, I purchased from the original owner!  I
hope that someone on the list has an early toro for some valuable tips
on maintaining such a beautiful car.
Brad

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 08:36:14 +0000
From: Bob Blanchard <bob149@uswest.net>
Subject: Re: Olds and Holley

>According to Edelbrock, some Chrysler's used the Q-Jet in something
>called a Thermo-Quad setup.
>

Chrysler never used the Q-jet. the thermo-quad is a spreadbore carb like
the Q-jet.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 15:51:32 -0500
From: "Peter Landowski" <PETTRIX@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: POR 15

The clear coat version of POR is NOT the same as that would be used on auto
paint finishes. The POR clear is only meant for areas where the metal is
pitted or will not be seen. I would not spray POR clear on the car's
exterior.

It is sold by Resto Motives Inc..
Pettrix@prodigy.net

- ----------
> From: Chris Sparks <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
> To: Olds List <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Subject: POR 15
> Date: Thursday, October 08, 1998 2:27 PM
>
> I just read here on the list that POR 15 comes in clear.  Couldn't you
> just
> use it anyway to keep rust off.  Say spray a whole bumper.  Shoot a car
> after it has been painted.
>
> What do y'all think?
>
> BTW who sells this stuff?
>
>
> --
> Chris Sparks
> 68 442 SC - Frosty
> 68 442 HT - Scarlet
> 68 442 HT - Saffron
> 82 DRB    - Dr. "B"
> http://www.catalina-inter.net/mrada

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 15:57:35 -0500
From: "Peter Landowski" <PETTRIX@prodigy.net>
Subject: A body Motor Stance

When I swapped a 455 into my 72 442(it originally had a 350) it seems as
though the motor sits higher in the front than the 350. Not to mention the
fan shroud didn't fit correctly. Is this normal when switching 350 to 455?
Why would it sit differently? I thought the frame mounts are the same....

Pettrix@prodigy.net

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 13:55:56 PDT
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Chicago Tribune 10/8/1998 Cars Section

(Combining posts and quotes...)

> The 4 4 2 is named in 1964. ONLY!
> When it was a 330cid 310hp engine!

FWIW, they credit the listings, or lack of them, to the "Standard
Catalog of American Cars 1946-1975"

> It's actually a '69. The silver 442 grill threw  me off, too.
> Focus on the bumper. And what's up with that horrid color scheme??

That doesn't look like an original shade of blue (and are the
headlight doors really supposed to be blue as well?), but the photo
doesn't do it justice anyhow. They've cropped out the background, but
it appears to have been photographed on a red floor, which reflects in
the bumper and makes it look like a blue car with red bumpers.

I think they photographed it in one of the big pole barns where all
these great cars are lined up bumper to bumper just waiting for a
buyer. Worth a trip to see this place: Volo Antique Auto Museum,
27582 Volo Village Road, Volo, IL  60073 -- (815) 385-3644. They
have a web page at http://www.volocars.com/ but it's pretty sparse.
There's an auction coming up on October 25-26, though.

- -- Andy

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:47:28 -0400
From: Todd Morris <toddmorr@us.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: H*LP NEEDED, WANTED (and BADLY)

Just last week I replaced my rear main seal, both upper and lower, with the
engine in the car.  Second time I've done this, not a quick job.  I bought a
Lisle tool called "sneaky pete" to help with removal and reinsertion of the
upper seal.  The tool is total garbage and broke.  Another kit made by KD is
much better I think.  Anyway, using the rope type seal, I attached the end of
the tool to the rope and then the idea is that you then pull the rope up and
around the crankshaft, along the groove in the upper bearing.  The problem is
that it takes tremendous torque to pull the seal through the very tight crevice
that it sits in, while the crank is still installed of course.  It takes so
much torque that the tool broke.  The KD tools which I saw at Carlisle last
week looked much more heavy duty and they might work.  Tool is inexpensive,
around $10.

Anyway, I ended up using a screw driver to gradually pack the seal in there,
bit by bit.  Probably took a good 2 hours of patiently pushing and packing.
You probably will have to push/pack two pieces, one from each side.  I've
driven the car several hundred miles since and no leak so it seems to have
worked.  Also, remember to grease or vaseline the rope seals when you install
them.  I forgot to do this a couple years ago--it still sealed but my starter
burned up on the first start attempt--it couldn't overcome the resistance of
the "dry" rope.

I did not replace the bearings so I can't comment there.  As to the prelubing.
A couple years ago--the first time--I replaced the seal I also replaced the oil
pump.  When I restarted I had very nasty click,clicking for a good couple
minutes until the new oil pump primed itself.  Not good. So, this time,
although I didn't replace the oil pump, I did prime it by turning it with a
drill in a bucket of oil before reinstalling it.  I also filled the oil filter
with oil.  When I restarted the engine I had no clicking whatsoever or any oil
starvation problems I could tell.

One more note while I'm at it.  I shimmed my oil pump, adding two small washers
between the cotter pin and the pressure regulator spring.  This has made no
difference AT ALL in my oil pressure.  I still get 35 lbs at hot cruise.  I
still believe that the overwhelming determinant of oil pressure is bearing
clearance.  Oil pump and oil weight make a minor difference at best.

Todd Morris
71 442

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:14:46 -0500
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: Olds Tri-power

Woody,
Is that good or bad?
Lou
- ----------
> From: WOODY3781@aol.com
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Olds Tri-power
> Date: Wednesday, October 07, 1998 9:21 PM

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:22:22 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: ADMIN: How to Turn HTML Off?

I have had a question on how to turn off HTML when using Netscape mail. I
don't have Netscape so I can't offer any guidance. It is something many
people here could probably use. Would someone be so kind as to post
instructions on how to do this?

Thanks!

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:23:35 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: UNBOUNCE: Need '66 Full-size Axle

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:	MrCraigMan@aol.com
Subject: Axle for 66 Olds 98

Hey Guys and Gals,

I have a friend here with a busted axle for a 66 Olds 98. He lives in
Durham, NC. He is contemplating replacing the entire rear end if that
seems to be more economical. He doesn't s*bscribe to the list but I am
going to try to get him on. Until then, I need some help on this as I have
never dealt with it before.  If anyone can point me in the right directio,
please do so!

Also, I am a digest member, so if you post please CC me a copy to my email
address above in addition to the list. I might not get the list as I only read
them as time permits...

Thanks

Craig M. Seman
Charlotte, NC!
77 Cutlass Supreme Brougham
97 Aurora

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 18:23:56 EDT
From: WOODY3781@aol.com
Subject: Re: Olds Tri-power

Lou,
I don't do stuff like that. That's not my way. To answer your question, not
good or bad, only the best.

wood


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:28:54 -0500
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: Olds and Holley

Stephen,
Being an old Mopar guy, some 340 eng used a Carter carb called a
Thermo-Quad. Had a plastic float bowl assy. looked like Bakelite. A couple
of Years only.
Lou Biggs
lbiggs@intertek.net
- ----------
> From: Stephen Hoover <shang@wans.net>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Olds and Holley
>
> According to Edelbrock, some Chrysler's used the Q-Jet in something
> called a Thermo-Quad setup.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 18:47:23 EDT
From: JJP442@aol.com
Subject: Re:  tragic story

Ray,
An "82"-442??? Come on you know better than that! LOL
John-Queens N.Y.
JJP442@aol.com
1983 H/O
1987 442

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 18:46:07 -0400
From: "Peter Berusch" <pber710840@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: 68-72 Cutlass Inner (Upper?) Trailing Arm Size

Chris, I've got a '70 442.  Want the measurements on these?  Peter.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Chris Fair <cfair@FairIsaac.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Thursday, October 08, 1998 11:58 AM
Subject: 68-72 Cutlass Inner (Upper?) Trailing Arm Size


>Any one have a 68-72 cutlass differential trailing arms handy ?-- the
>upper/inner ones, not the lower/outer ones.
>
>I'm trying to determine if these are the same dimensions as the 66 big car
>upper/inner arms.
>
>Could you measure the distance from the centers of the bolt holes for me
and
>post it? Width would
>be good too.
>
>I know this doesn't make sound right, but I've already determined that the
>lowers fit and my mechanic said
>it's much smarter to put both on, if they fit, as opposed to  just the
>lowers.
>
>Look forward to your posts
>TIA
>
>cf
>
>PS: the power seat saga continues. Looks like the hot tip is to mount the 6
>way system, narrowed onto
>the pedestals from the 1966 4 way seat. More as the swap continues.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 18:56:07 EDT
From: JJP442@aol.com
Subject: Re:  Re: Performance Exhaust 1985 442

Ray, are you sure the stock GM "dual exhaust" on the 85-87 442's is made by
Walker? Have you or anyone else bought this exhaust over the counter???And if
so how much???
John-Queens N.Y.
JJP442@aol.com
1983 H/O
1987 442

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 18:52:25 -0400
From: "Mark Thurman" <Thurman@kvnet.org>
Subject: 1970 Vista Cruiser info

Please stop me if I'm about to make a HUGE mistake.  I've found a 1970 V.C.
that was his (current owner) father's car.  It is all there (minus the motor
which he wants to keep for a future 442 project - I'm hoping this is
negotiable, if I could find him another 455), glass, chrome, grill, sheet
metal all original.  The only damage I see is a badly damaged "tail gate"
(hope that's the correct term), severe rust through on the lower quarters
(where the quarter joins the inner wheel house - the section that rusts in
every 70 - 72 cutlass I have seen) and some rust starting to eat away under
the trim around the top "window" (the glass directly in front of the luggage
rack).  It has been sitting outside, in the briars, and is full of "stuff"
so I haven't really assessed the full extent of the weather and critter
damage.  BUT, if I buy/trade for this car I will want to restore it, I
couldn't stand to part it out (owners dad and mine had some common ties &
both are gone now, plus I'm just a plain fool for 70 Oldsmobiles).  So here
are my questions: 1) are quarters, floor pans and other sheet metal (if
needed) sections (and tail gates) available for these cars?  2) can the rust
damage around
the glass be repaired by most bodymen? (I know nothing of sheet metal repair
and haven't been satisfied with the work I've had done, I will want this to
be right)  3)can anybody give me tips on what big troubles to look for (I
tend to lose my perspective and common sense when I buy these cars - I've
got 2 Supremes, 2 "S"'s, and a 442 to prove it) as I'm deciding on whether
to get this car.  Now for the best part: my wife says "buy it if you want
it - but it gets a 'hers' license plate when it's finished" - I am truly
blessed.  Thanks for listening, thanks in advance for the help & sorry if it
takes a while to get back to you, I can only access the digest......mt

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 18:54:14 -0400
From: "Mike Rothe." <hurstolds@xtalwind.net>
Subject: Re: 69 fender (inside color) and lower support bracket

MB0 wrote:
>
> Can anyone tell me if the inside of the fenders on a 69 Cutlass are body
> color, or black? I'm repainting and want the correct color.

Yeah, I'm sure someone here CAN tell you.  Don't know if we
should...just kidding.  The fenders originally came black primered and
were left that way during the painting process at the plant.  The inside
foldover lip (where the side hood cushions are) was painted body color.
Overspray, if it got inside the fenders, as it usually did, was left for
the owner.  If you wanted to paint them an eggshell black, or flat
black, it would look ok.  So, now you know.  My '69 H/O was left with a
bit of overspray on the backside of the fenders, but it wasn't too bad.

>
> Also, is there a resource for replacement lower front support brackets
> for fenders? I'd like to replace the bracket that has the rubberish
> "cushion" permanently attached to it. The rubber is bad and there
> doesn't seem to be a way to remove it. I've checked Year One and
> Brother's catalogs.

So this verifies it ISN'T a W-31...since they didn't use the rubber
piece.  I know what you're talking about.  You can't get those
anywhere.  I ended up calling a rubber manufacturer, and they cut me a
2' x 2' swatch of the 1/4" rubber you describe.  Now, all I gotta do is
get a machine shop to put the same type of large head solid rivets in
it, and I'm in business.

And now, for the resto tip of the day......

For '69 A-body owners:  Ever wonder why they DON'T make a front bumper
lower splash flap (just inside under the front bumper) to fit a '69?
Don't fear.  Just buy the ones made for the 70-72 A-bodies.  Then, trim
some off of each end and there you have it.  Of course, it's best if you
use your old one as a template.  I believe it's about 6" off of each
side, but don't quote me on that.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 18:58:34 -0400
From: "Peter Berusch" <pber710840@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: new toro owner

Congrats on the new ride.  The '68 is the first year of the rock and roll
455 and the last year of the first gen fastback styling.  I've got a '66
Deluxe that I got from the original owner, too.  Mine just rolled opver 90k.
You can go to the supermarket in your Toro and when you come out, you can do
so without any fear of there being one like it parked next to you.  There is
a list dedicated to Toronado at toro@armchair.mb.ca.   You can drop them a
line and ask about the subscription proceedure.  There are knowledgable
folks there, too.  Peter.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Brad Burns <BBurns@MAIL.COLGATE.EDU>
To: 'oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca' <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Thursday, October 08, 1998 4:48 PM
Subject: new toro owner


>I just purchased my first olds Toronado after many years of looking for
>the right car.  It is a '68 deluxe and it has 84k miles and in excellent
>original condition and in fact, I purchased from the original owner!  I
>hope that someone on the list has an early toro for some valuable tips
>on maintaining such a beautiful car.
>Brad

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:09:21 -0600
From: "Igor T. '81 455DRB" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: e-mail to BEN, regarding 455

Ben,
I don't know if you remember but you plugged in the specks I gave you to the
D. Dyno once.  I am considering getting two different cams here.  I was
wondering if you have time if you could plug their numbers in to tell me
what I would get approximately.  Thanks.

The cams are:
CAM1
Duration @.050   214-224;  ADV.. Dur.  272-282;  Valve lift  .472-.496;
Intake Centerline 110;

CAM2
Duration @.050   224-234;  ADV.. Dur.  286-296;  Valve lift  .496-.520;
Intake Centerline 110;

If you don't remember my motor specks, here they are:
'76 Block, 455 .030over, 10:1CR cast pistons, with my J-heads about 9.5CR,
ported and polished exhaust side (inc. removal of EGR bump and opening up of
exhaust valve), stock smaller valves (2.000 intake I think), cast rings,
true DBL. roller timing, .10 under mains, .20 under throws, the intake is
the model  'L'  404521  '70-'72  455 4V AT and MT. 442, SX, 88, 98's. Except
W-30. Iron.;
the carb is 4-bbl Rochester of a '70' 442, no emissions or anything, 790 cfm
flow, the exhaust is stock '76 BB manifolds, dual 2.5" exhaust, 2.25"
dynomax super turbos, 2.25" tailpipes, balance-tube.  Rear is 8.5" 10-bolt,
3.23s posi, 12 inch converter, stage 2 shift kit.  The current cam is
260-272 AD, .448-.472 lift.  Thanks a lot.  Sorry, I forgot your e-mail,
mine is igor455@home.com .  I think that the CAM1 would be a better choice
for streetability and use with stock valvetrain.  The current cam runs out
of revs just before 4000.  I would like it to pull to 5000.  Now pulls great
to 3000, okay to 4000, nothing more.  Also, now it has no traction.  Thanks.
Igor.

Igor Todorovic
1981 Delta 88 (455/th400/3.23s)
1981 Regency (307/propane/th2004r)
1981 Dodge MaxiVan (360/727/4.10s)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 19:08:28 -0400
From: "Mike Rothe." <hurstolds@xtalwind.net>
Subject: Re: Performance Exhaust 1985 442

> Ray, are you sure the stock GM "dual exhaust" on the 85-87 442's is made by
> Walker? Have you or anyone else bought this exhaust over the counter???

The tailpipe/muffler assemblies are/were made by Walker according to the
GM dealership parts manager.  However, two designs were utilized.  They
cost about 200/set plus or minus, plus another 75 or so for the Y pipe
from the converter at the GM dealer.  Get a set from NAPA and compare.
Uncanny resemblence....

The two designs are not that much different, but here's what I've
learned....

Original equipment exhaust pipes had the "crinkles" in the pipes as they
passed over the rear axle.  Looks almost aftermarket.  Replacements for
future use I bought back in 89 had these crinkles as well.  I bought
some for the 87 Salon this summer, (as well known to many on this list
during my hunt for hangers, which are now discoed) and they were mandrel
bent.  Still aluminized and were correct in shape etc., but without the
crinkles.  If you have old hangers, then save the frame brackets and
steel end piece.  NAPA sells the rubber section only.  Just re-rivet and
you're now in business.

However, with both my 85's they are still using the original factory
exhausts.  They withstand the test of time, that's for sure.  One has
60K and the other 110K miles.  I may never need to use that set I bought
way back when....well, on second thought....

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:07:57 -0400
From: Jason Adcock <jadcock@vt.edu>
Subject: RE: Re: Performance Exhaust 1985 442

On Thursday, October 08, 1998 6:56 PM, JJP442@aol.com [SMTP:JJP442@aol.com]
wrote: > Ray, are you sure the stock GM "dual exhaust" on the 85-87 442's is
made by > Walker? Have you or anyone else bought this exhaust over the
counter???And if > so how much???

I'm not sure that all of them are made by Walker themselves.  I asked Walker 
and
they said that they made some of them, but so did another company...its name
eludes me right now...something like Alco or something like that.  Either way,
the dealership will charge you between $350 and $375 for the exhaust through
them.  Walker charges, what, $250?  You'd have to ask someone who's bought
it...I haven't personally bought it, so I couldn't give an exact price.

Hope this helps...

Jason Adcock
Blacksburg, VA
ICQ: 5860857
E-Mail: jadcock@vt.edu
Web: http://jadcock.home.ml.org

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:13:32 EDT
From: MFATZII@aol.com
Subject: Re: F*ord joke -

In a message dated 10/8/98 2:49:42 PM Central Daylight Time, Supafli50@aol.com
writes:

<< This brings up a good question.  Which was the better invention?  Tehy both
 take money to keep going..
 Matt
 88 Olds Cutlass Supreme int.
  >>



I got one that takes money and is still here.......

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 11:02:07 -0400
From: rocket409@juno.com (Ray Costanzo)
Subject: Re: Performance Exhaust 1985 442

Personally, I think complete and total restoration is kind of boring.
You need to personalize your car while holding it true to itself at the
same time, hence put in bigger engines, as long as they're Olds, forget
autometer, get a "rally pac or whatever", put on some SSII's if you like,
power mirrors from an Aurora, etc. etc.

Ray Costanzo                                        87 409 Cutlass
                        Bucks County, PA

>but
>that just puzzles me.  I could see doing that more if it was a
>"restification".  Just to let you know, in case you don't, they only
>made 3000 of the 85 442s.
>
>

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 11:04:20 -0400
From: rocket409@juno.com (Ray Costanzo)
Subject: Re: tragic story

Yeah, that definitely sucks real hard, at least it wasn't a GNX!  sorry
superenthusiasts


Ray Costanzo                                        87 409 Cutlass
                        Bucks County, PA

p.s.  I would give up my olds and all future ownership rights of Olds to
get a GNX!  Can't wait til I
m rich!


On Wed, 7 Oct 1998 22:45:45 -0400 (EDT) "C. Casteel"
<earthsci@pop.usit.net> writes:
>Same exact thing happened to me except it was a '97 Ford F150 Supercab
>4x4.
>Except the local dealership tried to hide it from me and, after I
>stumbled
>onto it (actually) offered to fix it for me at "no charge". Like they
>were
>doing me a favor. To say the least, I don't drive Fords anymore, not
>because
>of their product, but due to the local dealer.
>
>Yes, it is painful, especially after waiting 3 months for the #^%$@
>thing to
>come in.
>
>

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 11:05:56 -0400
From: rocket409@juno.com (Ray Costanzo)
Subject: Re: RocketTalk tomorrow?

Hey Matt, you have two cars from the GM period of shame (73-77), do you
like the cars a lot?  Please don't be offended...

Ray Costanzo                                        87 409 Cutlass
                        Bucks County, PA

On Wed, 07 Oct 1998 22:37:41 +0100 Matt Cremean
<creme1ma@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu> writes:

>Matt Cremean
>mailto:creme1ma@cmich.edu
>+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
>1975 Cutlass S Hardtop Coupe (250 L-6 1bbl) "parts car"
>1973 Cutlass Supreme Hardtop Coupe (350 V-8 4bbl) "The Oldsmoslow"

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:21:16 EDT
From: JJP442@aol.com
Subject: One mans conquest with an Oldsmobile.

I just had the pleasure of replacing the water pump in my 87
442.................
IS THERE ANYTHING OLDSMOBILE DIDN'T BOLT TO THE FRONT OF THAT DAMN
THING!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry people, I guess most of you know what I mean.
Just Venting,
John-Queens N.Y.
JJP442@aol.com
1983 H/O (original "water pump", oooh nooo! It might just get subbed out)can't
last forever
1987 442 (new "pain in the a$$ water pump" thank god it's over)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 19:23:13 -0400
From: "Mike Rothe." <hurstolds@xtalwind.net>
Subject: Re: Repro H/O emblems

Shokouhi, Mike wrote:
>
> I picked up 3 from The Parts Place, and compared them to my originals
> (which were plastic) these are die-cast, and they looked very good.
> However, they are like $40 a pop.
>
Yeah, Jon Wessel sent me a pic of one.  Notice the "OLDS"....big
differences there, but not enough to notice unless you know what the
originals looked like.  Plus, the inside legs of the H doesn't LOOK like
they taper out a little like the originals, but again, hard to tell from
the pic.  I agree on this, if you don't have any, then these are way
better than the little different ones.  I've got NOS ones I'm gonna use,
but I was just curious if anyone had got any from the Parts Place.  I
might just buy one so I can rag them about it.

Mike

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 19:39:47 +0100
From: Matt Cremean <creme1ma@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu>
Subject: Don't talk smack, boy!! (Re: RocketTalk tomorrow?)

Ray Costanzo wrote:
>
> Hey Matt, you have two cars from the GM period of shame (73-77), do you
> like the cars a lot?  Please don't be offended...
>

Owwwch!! That hurt!! I like my '73! Not the '75. I just think that after
'73 they started to get ugly, but got better in '78 when they were
G-bodies. After all, the '73 was my first car, she's my baby, I have a
spiritual bond with it. You never forget your first. Yeah, granted the
68-72 models are more popular and there are tons more parts and info for
them, but you NEVER just see a '73 driving down the road...well...not as
often as you'd see the 68-72's, which is a rare occasion in itself.

BUT....after being up here in Mt. Pleasant for a little over a month,
I've seen a few old Oldses. There's a 72, a 69, and I think I saw a 68
yesterday. But TODAY, I spotted a '74 CS in a parking lot. I was
amazed.....

- --
*************
Matt Cremean
mailto:creme1ma@cmich.edu
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
1975 Cutlass S Hardtop Coupe (250 L-6 1bbl) "parts car"
1973 Cutlass Supreme Hardtop Coupe (350 V-8 4bbl) "The Oldsmoslow"
1970 Cutlass S Holiday Coupe (350 V-8 2bbl) "The Unit"
1983 Ch*vrolet C*price (305 V-8 4bbl) "The Blue Taxi"
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/
**************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 23:34:29 +0000
From: clarence wirtz <cw63nova@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: One mans conquest with an Oldsmobile.

I know just what you are talking about. I had mine go out on the last road
trip I made to Clarksville, Tn. It seamed like I would never get to the
pump. I sure hope that this trip at christmas will be uneventful. I want to
spend the time with the granddaughter not working on the Cutlass.

At 07:21 PM 10/8/98 EDT, you wrote:
>I just had the pleasure of replacing the water pump in my 87
>442.................
>IS THERE ANYTHING OLDSMOBILE DIDN'T BOLT TO THE FRONT OF THAT DAMN
>THING!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>1983 H/O (original "water pump", oooh nooo! It might just get subbed out)can't
>last forever
>1987 442 (new "pain in the a$$ water pump" thank god it's over)
>
Clarence
86 Cutlass 4DR 307 O/D 2.56's
San Antonio

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:54:32 EDT
From: WOODY3781@aol.com
Subject: Re: Don't talk smack, boy!! (Re: RocketTalk tomorrow?)

Hey Ray,
The 73 is a cool wheel. I had a 76 and 77 and they were great cars. The only
bad thing is that the rear bumpers always rotted off. Guarantee within 10
years these cars will take their rightful place among the classics. The only
bad thing about having
an Olds is saying "had an Olds"!

wood

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:59:08 EDT
From: RICH6986@aol.com
Subject: Re: One mans conquest with an Oldsmobile.

I just replaced 2 of them one in my 85 cutlass and the other in my 82 took me
awhile to do the first one but the second one took half the time (hardest part
scraping the old gasket off, and putting belts back on the right way)
just my 2 cents     						Rich
82,85 cutlass supreme

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 19:58:47 -0400
From: "Mike Rothe." <hurstolds@xtalwind.net>
Subject: Re: Performance Exhaust 1985 442

> Personally, I think complete and total restoration is kind of boring.
> You need to personalize your car while holding it true to itself at the
> same time<snip>

Ray, first off, I respect your opinions, as well as anyone elses on
personalization.  Everyone is entitled to do what they want with their
cars.  Just because someone else may not happen to agree with the mods,
doesn't mean you shouldn't modify your car.  This thread wasn't about
personalization.  It's about differing philosophies that puzzle me.
It's about taking an already fully restored semi-rare car and modifying
it to some degree, which somehow doesn't make sense to ME.  If it needed
a resto, and the mods were made, it's would not be as puzzling.  As long
as you or subsequent owners could put it back "stock" without a lot of
headaches, then it's no big deal in my opinion to personalize your car
by any means.

But you bring up a good point on personalization.  It's YOUR CAR, so do
as you want.  It's all a matter of personal tastes.  Trust me, I'm a
strong supporter of freedom of ownership.  But beware if you ever wanted
to sell it, that the value MAY drop considerably depending on the mods.
I mean, would you pay more for a 70 W-30 with a crushed velour interior
from a later model and a W-31 engine in it (all Olds parts here) and
none of the original parts coming with the car, or a correctly restored
to factory spec one?  If you bought a fully restored 68 H/O, would you
drill new door holes to put Aurora mirrors on IT?  Could you get full
market price for it then?  Hope so, but the market pretty much shows who
gets top dollar.  Depends on the case, personal interests, etc.  If
there are no plans to ever sell the car, then all of that doesn't
matter.  But just like a house painted pink with purple polka dots, you
instantly limit the scope of potential buyers if you decide to sell.

If you are ressurecting a car from a junkyard, then sometimes you have
to use what's available.  Different philosophy here.

It may be boring to you, but to me, and plenty others, a "factory style"
restoration is an extreme challenge.  (that's why assembly manuals are
popular) It takes a TON of research to do one correctly, and also
preserves the heritage of the model in question.  I like museum pieces,
and I also like the draggin wagons.  But, all of this is just MY
opinion.  I like ALL Oldses, modified to stock.  I even warmed over my
71, and it's far from stock in the engine compartment.  But, if I so
desired, I could easily get it back to looking stock if the urge
strikes.  But that's why I have more than one Olds, as many of us here
do.

I'm not dissing your opinion here, Ray, just stating my philosophy on
restorations.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 20:22:55 -0400
From: Jim Olson <jolson@remcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
Subject: Re: Don't talk smack, boy!! (Re: RocketTalk tomorrow?)

Huh... Matt? You're in Mt. P? I'm just a few miles south of you in
Shepherd...

Jim...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 20:25:31 -0400
From: Jim Olson <jolson@remcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: How to Turn HTML Off?

Preferences-|
	    |
	    Mail & Groups-
			  |
			  |
			  Messages-
				  |
				  |
				  Message Properties-
						    |Turn HTLM off



Jim...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 20:35:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Nathyn M. Knipe" <nmknipe@mailbox.syr.edu>
Subject: Re:  Re: Performance Exhaust 1985 442

i have bought the exhuast system over the counter...at least from the Cat.
back...  i and i am pretty sure it was Walker Exhaust....I got it through
NAPA Auto parts.  I don't remember how much it cost though....Nathyn

On Thu, 8 Oct 1998 JJP442@aol.com wrote:

> Ray, are you sure the stock GM "dual exhaust" on the 85-87 442's is made by
> Walker? Have you or anyone else bought this exhaust over the counter???And if
> so how much???
> John-Queens N.Y.
> JJP442@aol.com
> 1983 H/O
> 1987 442
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:40:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: S-MAN <super442@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: One mans conquest with an Oldsmobile.

- ---JJP442@aol.com wrote:
>
> I just had the pleasure of replacing the water pump in my 87
> 442.................
> IS THERE ANYTHING OLDSMOBILE DIDN'T BOLT TO THE FRONT OF THAT DAMN
> THING!!!!!!!!!!!!
> Sorry people, I guess most of you know what I mean.
> Just Venting,

- ---------Yeah...know what ya mean...try it when you get 2 bad
waterpumps....3 changes.....not a fun time....then of course the next
week...the power steering pump went out....
==
John McJunkin ( The Sman ) mailto:super442@yahoo.com    ICQ # 16956740
TOPLESS--1985 Cutlass--frog442's 84---my 69 442
1982 Cutlass Cruiser Wagon(g-body)--soon to be V-8 !
http://members.tripod.com/~SuperOlds/
Check out my Burnout page-send me pics of your's and I'll add it
- -http://members.tripod.com/~SuperOlds/Burnouts

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 20:30:51 -0400
From: "Thomas P. Smith" <smithtp@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Olds and Holley

        Well, it appears I started a lively little topic.  Actually, I was
half expecting someone to come back and tell me about some obscure
Oldsmobile prototype that originally was given a Holley.  Anyway, since
I've driven both Holley and Q-Jet,  I'd like to offer a few comments,
although I don't claim to be an expert.   I don't really think either carb
is better, they're just different.  The comments about tuning go for both.
Each requires that you figure it out before tinkering.  I think the true
genius of Holley is it's marketing.  I mean, you can't just go down to the
local speed shop and get Q-Jet metering rods, but you can for Holley parts.
         I've had very nice experiences with both, and I currently have one
of each.  Both of them are set up to be rather streetable.  I'll run one for
a few months, then swap to the other. The only reason I want another Q-Jet
is for numbers-matching purposes (my current one is off a '73 Cutlass)...I'm
not at all desperate.  Also, I think the main reason stock Q-Jets often seem
more doggy than Holleys is because they're set up for economy and emissions
from the factory for strictly OEM requirements.  But, they CAN be tuned for
performance, and it isn't all that difficult.  You just usually have to
order parts, and some of those can be hard to find.  Hence, the Holley
appeal, with it's easily tunable, modular design, and wide parts
availability.


        Just a few thoughts,

        Thomas P. Smith
        1971 Cutlass S 350

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 20:43:40 -0400
From: "Gary J. Couse: Cutlass IROC-SS" <gjcouse@francomm.com>
Subject: RE: tragic story

<Snip>
<>-----Original Message-----<>
Then, as they were
unloading the car off the car carrier, of the top rack, someone screwed
up and it fell(!) off the truck.  That sucks.  I know he didn't get the
car, even though they offered to fix it for him, yeah brand new car with
a wrinkled frame, real cool.  I don't know the rest of the story, but
that's the painful part at least.

<A>

It would be interesting to know who did end up with that car. OOOOOOh, could
it be any or ours?  Ouch.

- ----Regards,

Gary J. Couse
Couse Custom
ICQ# 5209322
gjcouse@francomm.com
  
'86 Custom Cutlass IROC-SS = "Quincy"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 20:58:05 -0400
From: "Gary J. Couse: Cutlass IROC-SS" <gjcouse@francomm.com>
Subject: RE: Rally Pack -- definition wanted

I've got access to sell a complete 1968 dash including a good dash pad. Yes
the rally pac gauges are intact. - $500. takes all...

- ----Regards,

Gary J. Couse
Couse Custom
ICQ# 5209322
gjcouse@francomm.com
  
'86 Custom Cutlass IROC-SS = "Quincy"

<>> From: John Kreitzer <john.kreitzer@gte.net>
<>
<>> a place called "The Parts Place" had them, $600.00 - Ouch!!.  They are
<>not
<>> cheap by any stretch of the imagination. Anyway, thats my $.02.
<>>
<>> John
<>>
<>
<>Your right John they aren't cheap.  But they do increase the value of the
<>car they are put into by the same value or cost plus the enjoyment of
<>having them.  Cheap NO, but worth every penny to those who want to look at
<>there dash and see the factory tach and gauge. Anyway, thats my $.02.
<>
<>Robert Schinkel
<>docbob@caninet.com
<>Niagara Falls, Canada
<>905-357-4454
<>1970 442 Convertible  (PARTING OUT)
<>
<>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:04:40 -0600
From: "Igor T. '81 455DRB" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Cam selection, 455

Okay, here are two cams that I narrowed down as my choices.  The goal is
simple.  I want the best STREETABLE performance, quickest acceleration, nice
sounding (but still decent) idle, no or MINOR mods to the stock valvetrain.

The cams are:
CAM1
Duration @.050   214-224;  ADV.. Dur.  272-282;  Valve lift  .472-.496;
Intake Centerline 110;

CAM2
Duration @.050   224-234;  ADV.. Dur.  286-296;  Valve lift  .496-.520;
Intake Centerline 110;

If you don't remember my motor specks, here they are:
'76 Block, 455 .030over, 10:1CR cast pistons, with my J-heads about 9.5CR,
ported and polished exhaust side (inc. removal of EGR bump and opening up of
exhaust valve), stock smaller valves (2.000 intake I think), cast rings,
true DBL. roller timing, .10 under mains, .20 under throws, the intake is
the model  'L'  404521  '70-'72  455 4V AT and MT. 442, SX, 88, 98's. Except
W-30. Iron.;
the carb is 4-bbl Rochester of a '70' 442, no emissions or anything, 790 cfm
flow, the exhaust is stock '76 BB manifolds, dual 2.5" exhaust, 2.25"
dynomax super turbos, 2.25" tailpipes, balance-tube.  Rear is 8.5" 10-bolt,
3.23s posi, 12 inch converter, stage 2 shift kit.  The current cam is
260-272 AD, .448-.472 lift.  Thanks a lot.  I think that the CAM1 would be a
better choice for streetability and use with stock valvetrain.  The current
cam runs out
of revs just before 4000.  I would like it to pull to 5000.  Now pulls great
to 3000, okay to 4000, nothing more.  Also, now it has no traction.  Thanks.

All this is in my '81 Delta Royal Brogham 4-door.  (not a lightweight by any
means)

Igor.

Igor Todorovic
1981 Delta 88 (455/th400/3.23s)
1981 Regency (307/propane/th2004r)
1981 Dodge MaxiVan (360/727/4.10s)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 21:08:27 -0400
From: "Gary J. Couse: Cutlass IROC-SS" <gjcouse@francomm.com>
Subject: G-Body Rear disks

Anyone have experience with setting up disk brakes on a G-Body rear?

- ----Regards,

Gary J. Couse
Couse Custom
ICQ# 5209322
gjcouse@francomm.com
  
'86 Custom Cutlass IROC-SS = "Quincy"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 18:13:59 +0000
From: Bob Blanchard <bob149@uswest.net>
Subject: Re: Cam selection, 455

>The cams are:
>CAM1
>Duration @.050   214-224;  ADV.. Dur.  272-282;  Valve lift  .472-.496;
>Intake Centerline 110;
>
>CAM2
>Duration @.050   224-234;  ADV.. Dur.  286-296;  Valve lift  .496-.520;
>Intake Centerline 110;
>

I'd go with cam #1.
I think the .520 lift on cam #2  might cause problems with a
stock valve train.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 21:12:02 EDT
From: CPEARLPARK@aol.com
Subject: Re: Rally Pack -- definition wanted

Gary, I hear they go for about $18... Interested in selling a set?  :-)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 21:22:41 +0100
From: Matt Cremean <creme1ma@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu>
Subject: Re: Don't talk smack, boy!! (Re: RocketTalk tomorrow?)

Jim Olson wrote:
>
> Huh... Matt? You're in Mt. P? I'm just a few miles south of you in
> Shepherd...
>
> Jim...

Cool!!! Come visit sometime!!!! Either that or I can have a buddy drive
me down. Let me know.....

- --
*************
Matt Cremean
mailto:creme1ma@cmich.edu
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
1975 Cutlass S Hardtop Coupe (250 L-6 1bbl) "parts car"
1973 Cutlass Supreme Hardtop Coupe (350 V-8 4bbl) "The Oldsmoslow"
1970 Cutlass S Holiday Coupe (350 V-8 2bbl) "The Unit"
1983 Ch*vrolet C*price (305 V-8 4bbl) "The Blue Taxi"
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/
**************************************************

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #1540
*********************************
