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Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #1579


oldsmobile-digest      Friday, October 30 1998      Volume 01 : Number 1579



Re: Aluminized Exhuast System
Re: A quick question.
Re: Aluminized Exhaust System
Re: 442 to buy
Re: The Auto Web poll
Paint Colors
Re: 442?
Re: Radiator Replacement
Re: Aluminized Exhuast System
Big car/wide tires
Re: List of things I think are wrong
Re: Differential vent question
Re: SV: OT:  A Picture Perfect Launch
Re: Update: Sparky Valve Job (fwd)
Steering gear?
Re: 442?
Re: Steering gear?
Re: 442?
Re: Radiator Replacement
Re: Aluminized Exhuast System
Re: 442?
Re: Radiator Replacement ($80 bucks??)
Loctite Blue or Red >Re: Steering gear?
Re: Loctite Blue or Red >Re: Steering gear?
Re: Lightning Rod Update
Re: Paint Colors
Re: Grille restoration
what happend to list
Lightning Rods Update (they are in)
Update to burnout page this weekend
Re: The Auto Web poll
e-mail to oldsmobile group disscution
Re: Update to burnout page this weekend
Re: 442 to buy
Re: Paint Colors
Re: 442?
Content-Type: text/plain
Re: A Picture Perfect Launch
rear end lube
Re: Loctite Blue or Red >Re: Steering gear?
Re: 442?
Re: 64 olds 88
Re: 64 olds 88
Sticking Starter, was: 64 olds 88
Re: Steering gear?
Re: Aluminized Exhuast System
Returned
Re: 442?
paging Greg Parcells supercars unlimited
Re: Karl Aune - third person dialogue?
RE: Aluminized Exhuast System
K&N Tech Question
Re: 64 olds 88

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 14:18:07 -0800
From: babyboo@pacbell.net
Subject: Re: Aluminized Exhuast System

This may sound silly, but here goes. The last time I checked, a simple
magnet WILLNOT stick to ANYTHING thats aluminized.  Just my .02 cents. Hope
this helps.

texas442 wrote:

> Hello,
>
> This week, the UPS man delivered the Aluminized Exhaust kit that I
> ordered for the '71 442.  Can someone tell me how I can confirm that
> what I received is indeed "Aluminized"?  The exhaust pipes and mufflers
> that I received look like they are plain "bare" steel without any
> special finish on them.
>
> Ali

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 14:21:32 -0800
From: babyboo@pacbell.net
Subject: Re: A quick question.

Hummmm, Sounds like clattering valves to me. What kind of gas are you
running.

jason shreve wrote:

> I have a 72 Cutlass Supreme.  The previous owner removed the 350 and
> replaced it with a 78 403.  The car runs well.  The problem is when I am
> under hard acceleration (passing gear and four barrel open.) I here a
> clattering noise.  I think is is in the valve train. Does this sound
> familur to anyone?
>
> Thanks  Jason Shreve
> danzig@midwest.net
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:31:20 -0600
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: Aluminized Exhaust System

Have aluminized duals on 75. will try a magnet on them, have one at work
not here, will try to remember to bring it home, refuse to take 75 to work,
have this deer problem.
Lou Biggs
lbiggs@intertek.net
PS Stainless is the cure, but being poor...

> From: babyboo@pacbell.net

> This may sound silly, but here goes. The last time I checked, a simple
> magnet WILLNOT stick to ANYTHING thats aluminized.  Just my .02 cents.
Hope
> this helps.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 14:30:42 -0800
From: babyboo@pacbell.net
Subject: Re: 442 to buy

Oops, I meant ...442.com. Sorry for any confuseion.

babyboo@pacbell.net wrote:

> I  Think that the online wantads @ 444.com will give you a good place to
> start looking. Lots of OLDS for sale. Good luck..
>
> non-ya non-ya wrote:
>
> > Hey list,
> > I am just know starting interest into rebuilding old muscle cars, and
> > would like to start off with a 70 convert. olds 442.  Anyone know
> > where I can start looking to find one?  I would prefer one that still
> > runs but not necessary.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > cb, south ga
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________
> > DO YOU YAHOO!?
> > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 14:45:46 PST
From: "scott slater" <slater442w30@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: The Auto Web poll

>From oldsmobile-mml-owner@chebucto.ns.ca Thu Oct 29 11:14:44 1998
>Received: by halifax.chebucto.ns.ca id <38356-11862>; Thu, 29 Oct 1998
12:38:44 -0400
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m1.sprynet.com" ident: "NO-IDENT-SERVICE") by halifax.chebucto.ns.ca
with ESMTP id <38441-11862>; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 12:38:21 -0400
>Received: from CIS.compuserve.com (hil-qbu-ptg-vty8.as.wcom.net
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>	by m1.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA06663
>	for <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 08:37:40 -0800 (PST)
>Message-Id: <199810291637.IAA06663@m1.sprynet.com>
>From:	"John Young" <realtorjohn@sprynet.com>
>To:	<oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
>Subject: Re: The Auto Web poll
>Date:	Thu, 29 Oct 1998 08:34:15 -0800
>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>X-Priority: 3
>X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162
>MIME-Version: 1.0
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>Reply-To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>
>Well,
>Now my friends and co-workers who have been in my Olds are voting.
(Gee, I
>wonder if they know that they're doing it, all the votes are coming
from my
>computer!!!)???
>
>Keep voting!!!!
>
>realtorjohn@sprynet.com
>69 442 W-32
>----------
>
>> Go here to see result:
>> http://www.autoweb.com/company/surveyresult.awi
>
>


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 14:51:17 PST
From: "scott slater" <slater442w30@hotmail.com>
Subject: Paint Colors

I recently purchased a 70 Olds Cutlass Supreme and it is a really cool
teal blue with a vinyl top and the car is the original color.  I am
trying to figure out how many cars made this year were made in this
color.  the color is Agean blue according to the chassis manual and i
have never seen nother Olds this color.  If anyone out there has one i
would like to know.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 15:40:50 -0600
From: "mbloomer" <mbloomer@gateway.net>
Subject: Re: 442?

If you want to make everyone think that you have a 442 without being
accused of trying to sucker someone else into paying more for it than
its worth or being a heritic, etc.  there is a much simpler route to go.
Just shave all the emblems off the car, put a 442 grille in it and maybe
a rear bumper w/exhaust cutouts in it and let everyone wonder whether
or not its a 442.  You couldn't be accused of trying to pass your car off
as something its not, but to anyone that has an idea what thier looking
at will see the grille from a distance and assume it is a 442 until they
get a closer look and unless their really good they may not know even
then.  The cars that get the most attention sometimes are the ones
that noone can figure out.  You also get to meet a lot of great people
when the ask you what the hell their looking at!  Then use the money
you saved on a good paint job and sink the rest in the drivetrain to
make it run like a 442.

Mike B
mbloomer@gateway.net


>> > > What I want to do is turn it into a 442  It's going to cost  BIG$
>> > > How many of you think this is a bad idea.
>> >
  Spent THOUSANDS of dollars on this plain-jane cutlass to make
>> it look
>> > like a 4-4-2.  If he had
>> > started with a real 4-4-2 and put the same amount of money into it,
>> he could
>> > have sold it for 2 TIMES as much as he did.
>>
>>
>>   If you
>> > want a 4-4-2, find a REAL one and buy it.  It's a much better
>> investment
>> > (most cases) to buy a real 4-4-2 and fix it up, then to buy a
>> Cutlass and
>> > make it into a 4-4-2.
>> >
>> >
>> I agree with Blaine on this subject. My Cutlass was saved from being
>> converted into a fake. The guy who owned it before me was going to
>> make it into a 4-4-2. It would be nice to have it "appear" to be a
>> 4-4-2, I would always know that it is a fake. Stay with the Cutlass.
>> Show em what the Cutlass's can do also!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:16:08 -0600
From: "mbloomer" <mbloomer@gateway.net>
Subject: Re: Radiator Replacement

Mick,
On my '72 when I rebuilt the motor I was concerned about overheating and
found myself in the same situation.  To my suprise I was able to find a 4
core radiator brand new from a radiator shop for under $200 US.  This thing
was huge and required minor mods to fit (bending the lower bracket to fit
the extra width of the tanks and minor trimming of the rubber insulators)
but
as far as hieght and width it fit perfect and was brand new, not a recore.
Just
be sure to look around and ensure you have the proper shroud (should cover
1/2 of the fan blades) for max effeciency.  Ran a built 350 that put out
extreme
abount of heat but even in the hottest summer with the A/C running and
bumper
to bumper traffic never saw the temp go over 200.  I would check your local
radiator shops cuz sometimes the best deals aren't where you expect them.

Mike B
mbloomer@gateway.net

>Currently, I have a two row core and a three row will fit with no changes.
I
>think one of the aluminum versions will fit too but any I've seen have been
>outrageously priced.
>Does anyone have a suggestion as to the best way to go: get it re-cored
with
>a three row at a rad shop, mailorder replacement, or just get one from an
>auto supply store. I'm looking for a good price but performance and
>availability are the top prioroties. I only get back to Indiana on
>occasional weekends so whatever I do, I have to fit it into one weekend.
>Thanks in advance.
>==============================================
>Mick Gillespie

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 15:56:23 -0600
From: "mbloomer" <mbloomer@gateway.net>
Subject: Re: Aluminized Exhuast System

>What's the going rate/availability of
>> stainless steel exhaust these days (for a 69-72 Cutlass/442 dual
>> exhaust)?  How long will these systems last if driven on non salted
>> roads?
>
>The bad part is this. Stainless steel would be the best way to go. On
>an exhaust, you always have moist exhaust gas inside the pipe. Well,
>with an aluminized exhaust, the pipe is only coated on the outside.
>Most exhausts never rust from the outside in. It is always from the
>inside out. Aluminized will help some, but the best bet for the buck I
>think would be stainless.
>==
>Rock-Man


As far as best bet for the buck I would have to strongly disagree.  You
can get an aluminized system for most any vehicle while stainless suffers
from availability/price problems.  A complete stainless exhaust will easily
cost you more than 2-3 times what an aluminized system will.  On my '72
Cutlass when I converted over to dual exhaust I decided to go with 2 1/2"
tailpipes and tried ordering a set from Year One.  When they arrived they
were "crinkle bent" and were promptly sent back.  I looked around locally
and after a small search found a guy who would custom make the pipes
from a book of specs he had.  Wasn't full mandrel but wasn't crinkled
either.
They were ready in a couple of days and the only prob. was that one pipe
was longer from the axle to the rear dump.  The guy only charged about
$150 for them w/ aluminized pipe and told me up front they might need
some tweaking for exact fit.  I cut the pipe between the axle and the dump
took a section out and MIG welded it back together.  After I ground down
the weld it looked perfect.  As a testimony to the Aluminized pipe, after
about 6 yrs the only rust on them was where I ground down the welds!  This
car was driven every winter and I was very happy since you can see the
tailpipes from the rear of the car and they still were nice and silver.  As
far
as pipes rusting out from the inside out, yes this does happen but unpainted
mild steel pipes also rust thier fair share on the outside after time, and
my
pipes were aluminized inside and out.

Mike B
mbloomer@gateway.net

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:25:52 -0600
From: "mbloomer" <mbloomer@gateway.net>
Subject: Big car/wide tires

Having wide tires sticking out of the fenders doesn't hur anything other
than puts extreme loads on the wheel bearings which leads to early wear.
As far as being slammed to the ground and therefore necessitating very
stiff suspensions with little or no travel, this will put extra load on the
frame
but usually not excessive.  The major problem is over time the extra
vibration
tends to cause the entire car to "loosen up" and cause rattles everywhere
and generally jars everything loose.  It is dangerous since the vehicle no
longer has the ability to absorb impact during a turn and if you hit a
pothole
while in a high speed turn (or low speed depending on the size of the
pothole)
it could upset the whole car causing loss of control.

Mike B
mbloomer@gateway.net

>
>isnt this rather hard on the frame, and car itself???  It seems to me, from
>seeing so many of these sad, pathetic disgraces rolling around that they
>ahve a rather stiff suspension (more like no suspension at all) and it
>occured to me that this couldnt be very good for the car itself...  and
>maybe even dangerous as there seems to be no absorbtion whatsoever to
>control the car in a tight or high speed turn.
>
>So what are your thoughts on this???  is my logic at least close?
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:47:29 -0600
From: "mbloomer" <mbloomer@gateway.net>
Subject: Re: List of things I think are wrong

>I just lost a half a quart of oil for running the car for 10 minutes
>yesterday!  I'm exited..

>
>-1.  Transmission Problem.  I've known this for a while, not sure what
exactly
>is wrong.  I do know I have a bad seal, and I hear the grinding noise it
>makes.
>
>-2.  Blown Headgasket(s). White smoke from exhaust pipe, loss of oil.  I
don't
>think the engine is burning oil, although I did smell oil, I think the oil
>might be leaking out, because wouldn't the exhaust be a blueish color if it
>was burning oil?


If its white smoke then it's anti-freeze.

>-3.  Timing Off.  When I ran it, the engine made the car shake VIOLENTLY,
and
>when the hood was up, it shook from side to side so bad...


This could be caused by the blown head gasket.

>-4.  Smoke coming from where you add the oil to the engine.  Maybe it IS
>burning oil, how do I know...

This sounds like blow by from bad rings.

>
>Ok, I'd like to run this engine for a while longer, but what do I expect
with
>175,000 miles?  I now have a service garage I can use to do an
engine/tranny
>swap (I was going to swap the tranny anyway) over the winter.  I'm not sure
>whether I want another 307 (for the fuel economy, not great, but better
than
>BB), or maybe I'll step up to a 403 or maybe a 350.  If I got a 307, I'd
>definitely get a VIN 9 one.  I'll get a better rear end hopefully, and then
>maybe some dual exhaust.  But the reason I wrote this email is that I'm
>thinking of junking this car, and starting over with my dream car, a mid
80's
>Cutlass.
>
>Looking forward to opinions,
>---------------------------------
>Joe Sherbanenko
>
Sounds like the engine is in generally rough shape.  Might just need a good
tune up to get it running decent.  You could have a completely dead cyl as
witnessed by the white smoke.  I tend to think that the rings are in decent
shape due to the fact that it still runs.  What you need is a leak down
test.
I don't know why more shops don't use it more often cause it more acurate
than a compression test and gives you a better idea of the engines overall
condition.

For those of you that have never heard of it:  A leak down test pressurizes
the cyl with compressed air and gives you a percentage that it leaks in each
cyl.  10 to 15 percent is about normal and 3 to 7 percent is the best I've
ever
seen even with gapless rings on race motors.  The nice thing is that while
the cyl is pressurized you can tell not only how much leak you have, but
where.
If you can hear the sound rushing out the oil cap its the rings.  Likewise
if you
can hear it in the carb/intake valve, exhaust pipe/exhaust valve, radiator
bubbles/leak into water jackets.

If you run a leak down test on the motor you can determine if you've got
good
ring sealing and pinpoint the head gasket leak.  The shaking is probably
caused by a miss from the head gasket, but pull the plugs and see if you
have any other dead cyls.  If you do you might have an igniton problem which
could in turn cause low vacuum and cause the PCV system to not fully
evacuate
the blowby from the crankcase.  Sounds to me like you basically have just a
blown head gasket and possibly a few other small tune up related problems
than could easily be tune up related.  Your best bet is a leak down test
before
you spend any money.  The leak down tester I have is from Snap On and is
quite a few years old but works great.  Better than guessing.  Sorry so long
in my post.  Any more questions on what to check for email me direct.

Mike B
mbloomer@gateway.net

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:54:59 -0600
From: "mbloomer" <mbloomer@gateway.net>
Subject: Re: Differential vent question

The axle vent should be on the pass side of the axle on the tube close
to the center section.  The vent is a small piece that sticks up and has
a captive cap on it that you can spin but not pull off.  At least that is
what I have on my '68 Supreme that is bone stock (I just went out and
looked).

Mike B
mbloomer@gateway.net

>My 68 442, had a plug in the rear axle.  I assume that this is where the
>vent plug for the rear differential is supposed to be.  Also, doesn't a
>rubber line run from this vent up to the frame?
>
>
>--
>Dan Williams                            442Much@plutonium.net
>Marion, IA                                     68 442 Convertible
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 15:58:13 -0700
From: Cliff Simpson <csimpson@ucalgary.ca>
Subject: Re: SV: OT:  A Picture Perfect Launch

Sorry Trond but even the Darwin award site lists this as an urban
legend.  But, yes the first couple of miles would be fun :)

Trond Pedersen wrote:
>
> <snip>
> he tied up a jato rocket on top of his cheby and turned it on.
> they found the remanings of him in a cliff, 150feet over the road
<snip>
- --

Cliff Simpson
csimpson@ucalgary.ca
'69 442/400/th400/3.23 (Kermit)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 17:01:37 -0600
From: "mbloomer" <mbloomer@gateway.net>
Subject: Re: Update: Sparky Valve Job (fwd)

I have had problems with bending valves and had an exhaust
valve drop completely!  My final outcome was to bite the bullet
and just get a set of high quality stainless steel valves like I
should have done in the first place.  The ones I WAS using were
TRW stock replacements.

Mike B
mbloomer@gateway.net

>
>Anybody else ever have this low mileage problem with Valves?
>Is there something that can be done to prevent such problems?
>I prelubed every part before putiing it together ... prelubed
>engine when assembled ... did a slow breakin ... and until 500
>miles me and big red were doing just fine.
>
>Ken Swick

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 17:06:59 -0600
From: Matthew Bremmer <bremmer@otter.cray.com>
Subject: Steering gear?

Quick question,

I replaced the steering gear on my 1978 Olds Cutlass Supreme.  Basically
the question is "How far does the pitman arm have to go onto the
steering geer bolt?"  I know this may seem trivial but here is my
attempt at a diagram to explain why I am asking this question:
             |___________| <-Steering Gear
               ___BBB___
 Pitman Arm-> |  |BBB|  |----------------|
              |__|BBB|__|----------------|
          NUT->nnnBBBnnn              ^
                  BBB <-Bolt from S.G.|_This end attaches to Center Link

I know that most of you have seen a steering gear and pitman arm before
I just wrote this diagram to make it more easily to refer to.  Well I
tighten the nut to the torque that is specified, I think.  The book
basically says 180 NM I think(off the top of my head).  Well when I
tighten the nut the pitman isnt flush with all of the threading.  In
other words looking at the pitman arm and steering gear bolt with the
nut off I can see about 1/16" to 1/8" of thread that I can still see on
the steering gear bolt.  I have put the wrench on the nut and pounded
the h*ll out of the wrench to get the nut to tighten the rest of the
way.  But I can't get the pitman arm to move any further up.  I have
tried pulling off the pitman arm again and put a small amount of motor
oil to see if this would help it slide up further no chance.  So is it
ok to leave it like this?  What do you think?   Any advice is
appreciated.  Also just for back up besides the locking washer do you
think I could use loctite on the nut to make sure it doesnt move?


Matt

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 18:20:51 -0500
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: 442?

...and maybe a rear bumper w/exhaust cutouts...
__________

The ironic thing is that in 1972, 442s didn't necessarily come with the
cutout bumper.  The base engine was a 350 with single exhaust that
obviously didn't have the cutouts, and the optional dual exhaust on the 350
also used the straight bumper.  Only the big block cars had the cutouts.

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 17:32:12 -0600
From: "mbloomer" <mbloomer@gateway.net>
Subject: Re: Steering gear?

Yes, its fine.  You get this extra room as a bit of freeplay to account
fro variances in different pittmann arms.  GM is the king of interchange
and they use the same pieces on many different cars which makes
things so easy to find and adapt.  This extra bit of thread ensures that
the bolt will not tighten on the shoulder instead of the arm.  If your still
not satisfied, drive the car for a while and recheck the torque to see
if the arm has seated further and maybe use some loctite so if it does
the nut won't fall off (the blue loctite not the red)

Mike B
mbloomer@gateway.net

>Well I
>tighten the nut to the torque that is specified, I think.  The book
>basically says 180 NM I think(off the top of my head).  Well when I
>tighten the nut the pitman isnt flush with all of the threading.  In
>other words looking at the pitman arm and steering gear bolt with the
>nut off I can see about 1/16" to 1/8" of thread that I can still see on
>the steering gear bolt.  I have put the wrench on the nut and pounded
>the h*ll out of the wrench to get the nut to tighten the rest of the
>way.  But I can't get the pitman arm to move any further up.  I have
>tried pulling off the pitman arm again and put a small amount of motor
>oil to see if this would help it slide up further no chance.  So is it
>ok to leave it like this?  What do you think?   Any advice is
>appreciated.  Also just for back up besides the locking washer do you
>think I could use loctite on the nut to make sure it doesnt move?
>
>
>Matt

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 17:39:01 -0600
From: "mbloomer" <mbloomer@gateway.net>
Subject: Re: 442?

That's why I said maybe.  Were going for the "442 look" here right?  In
keeping with the look the the cutouts would fit right in with a 442 grille.
The majority of the poeple who see the car won't be 442 experts and
may expect to see the cutouts.

Mike B
mbloomer@gateway.net

>...and maybe a rear bumper w/exhaust cutouts...
>__________
>
>The ironic thing is that in 1972, 442s didn't necessarily come with the
>cutout bumper.  The base engine was a 350 with single exhaust that
>obviously didn't have the cutouts, and the optional dual exhaust on the 350
>also used the straight bumper.  Only the big block cars had the cutouts.
>
>Joe Padavano
>padavano.joe@orbital.com
>
>66 442
>68 W-30
>69 H/O
>69 442
>70 W-30
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 18:47:21 EST
From: SOMMERVLLE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Radiator Replacement

I have a 4 core for sale 150 = shipping and is brand new was in car less than
2 weeks,  Chris

CHRIS SOMMERVILLE
69 442SC
70 442HC (FOR SALE)
70 W31
AND A FEW PARTS FOR SALE!!!!!!!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 19:00:36 -0500
From: "Dave Cullen" <david.cullen@snet.net>
Subject: Re: Aluminized Exhuast System

>This may sound silly, but here goes. The last time I checked, a simple
>magnet WILLNOT stick to ANYTHING thats aluminized

umm...I believe 'aluminized' is just a thin coating over steel pipe. A
magnet will stick just fine. Like putting a sheet of paper between a magnet
and the 'fridge.

drc

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 19:26:30 EST
From: Jon442@aol.com
Subject: Re: 442?

It's distressing to me to see such a negative tone about this subject on this
list. And in some cases, downright nastiness. This reminds me of an article in
the last issue of JWO, where the proud owner of a '74 H/O got slammed by a
judge at a car show because his car was not pristine enough.

The original poster of this subject, Pat, is taking a car that is neither rare
nor overly desirable and is going to keep it on the road and looking good.
Keep in mind that this is a 103,000 mile Cutlass with a bad paint job... it is
not a Hurst or W-car or Rallye or anything rare. How many tens of thousands of
these did they make in 1972? I say cut the guy some slack and be glad he is
keeping an Olds alive. So what if he wants to paint it to look like a 442? As
long as he is not going to pass it off as a real one when he goes to sell it,
what can that hurt? Some of you guys really knocked the wind out of his sails.

Yes, I think clone cars have their place. They are eye-catching, fun to drive,
and don't require an armed guard to watch over them when you go in the grocery
store. Don't get me wrong... I'm all for preserving a car in its stock
condition IF it is worth spending the money on to restore. A true restoration
is a very expensive proposition these days. I have a 982 point Hurst/Olds, but
I know in my heart that Pat will enjoy his 442 clone every bit as much, if not
more, than I enjoy my Hurst. Why? Because he will be able to drive his car
anywhere he wants to go without fear of a door ding or scratch or sudden
thundershower. I don't regret for a moment the way I restored my H/O, since it
is a very rare and unique piece of automotive history, and I wouldn't part
with it for anything. But I can assure you that the next car I do will be a
driver, because that is where the fun is.

I emailed Pat privately with my thoughts earlier, but I had to put my two
cents in here for the rest of the list. I don't think he deserved what he got
from some of you.

Pat, it's your car, so please yourself and be happy when you are finished.

Jon

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 06:26:38 -0600
From: Eric <big_olds@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Radiator Replacement ($80 bucks??)

Cough, Couhg, $80!!!!

Where does one go for this wonderful deal????  (Need 3 or 4-core for
Gobstopper in distant future)

Serious, where does one get a 3-core for $80 (I'm guessing American
$'s)?

Around here, I would guess 200-300 Canadian (140-200 American)!

Eric
http://www.dlcwest.com/~jed/gobstop.shtml  <-- Needs 4-core someday
http://www.dlcwest.com/~jed/biggreen.shtml <-- Came with new 4-core

Chris Brown wrote:
> > Mike,
> > Last year I upgraded from a 2 to 3 core radiator on my 72 Supreme, I got it
> > from parts america for about 80 bucks with a lifetime warranty (they had it
> > in stock).  The car runs alot cooler now, which in turn helped its
> > performance.  I wasnt in any shape to spend the money on an aluminum one.
> > They also make 4 core, but I think you have to special order them.
> >
> > Chris Brown
> > 72 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 18:33:19 -0600
From: Matthew Bremmer <bremmer@otter.cray.com>
Subject: Loctite Blue or Red >Re: Steering gear?

>mbloomer wrote:
>the blue loctite not the red

What is the difference between the blue and red loctite?  I realize
there is the strength difference, but my loctite 271 says it will take a
torch to get it off.  So what kind of strength does the blue have?

Matt

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 18:45:45 -0600
From: "mbloomer" <mbloomer@gateway.net>
Subject: Re: Loctite Blue or Red >Re: Steering gear?

Matt,
The red loctite Ive seen used to lock in hardened exhaust seats
(on top of the press fit) but I use the blue loctite on stuff that you
don't want coming out but still want to be able to get out like
flexplate bolts and such.  The blue is just extra insurance against
vibration but you can still get it out with a little effort.  Believe the
bottle on the 271 when it says you need a torch to get it out!

Mike B

>>mbloomer wrote:
>>the blue loctite not the red
>
>What is the difference between the blue and red loctite?  I realize
>there is the strength difference, but my loctite 271 says it will take a
>torch to get it off.  So what kind of strength does the blue have?
>
>Matt
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:45:40 -0800
From: Tom Lentz <tlentz@ior.com>
Subject: Re: Lightning Rod Update

Wow, that was a crosspost to the Monte list too....

Anyhow, I'm not sure what you mean by from Park to L1?  P and L1 are on 
opposite
ends of the spectrum, you can't shift straight from one to the other!

Probably next week I'll have an exploded diagram of the LR's on my web site.
This week and weekend are quite busy.  Getting ready for a
Halloween/housewarming party here.  Any Olds fan in Spokane is welcome to
attend!

Titanium drill bits are *really* nice.  My dad sells things like that and got 
me
a set for Christmas one year.  He ordered 'em one bit at a time as "demos" and
got 'em real cheap, so I have a set in 1/64th increments up to 1/2".  I kinda
wonder how I'm ever going to sharpen them if they need it again :-)

Tom Lentz
tlentz@ior.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 21:30:57 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Paint Colors

Agaean Aqua was a "special" color for '70 (I believe available only on the
A-body cars; not sure it was extra cost). It is my absolute favorite color
for these cars, especially with a white interior. If I were ever to
someday acquire a '70 and needed to repaint it, this would be my choice. I
saw several in Lansing at the Centennial (remember the pair on the bridge,
guys?) and just fell in love with the color. I doubt if they kept track of
how many were made in that color though. No matter, you got a good one!

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 21:37:05 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Grille restoration

On Thu, 29 Oct 1998, Lou Biggs wrote:
> Looked three places for Krylon #1403, Auto Zone, Wal Mart, and a local
> paint store. They have Krylon but no #1403, Awl Mart had the biggest
> selection, and all in numerical order, but no#1403. Got a hint?

My supply of this stuff all has 2 numbers on it: 1403 on the cap, and
41403 on the label. Not all places carry all the colors (tried a place
like Home Depot yet?) but unless the Canadian #s are different, that's the
stuff you need.

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 20:50:37 -0500
From: "Rob Lewis" <fever@planeteer.com>
Subject: what happend to list



------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 19:57:10 -0600
From: "Austin Schroeger" <austin@lsol.net>
Subject: Lightning Rods Update (they are in)

Well, the shifters are in and working.  They needed to be reworked, greased,
and lubed :)

I think I am going to go with an entire Oldsmobile center console and buy a
83/84 console cover for the shifters.  Might as well do it the right way.


Austin Schroeger
Home ICQ# 16380613
Work ICQ# 7328959
(920) 682-3277 HOME
austin@lsol.net / austin@g-body.org
http://www.g-body.org
http://members.lsol.net/austin
1984 Monte Carlo SS (406CI)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 17:58:33 -0800 (PST)
From: S-MAN <super442@yahoo.com>
Subject: Update to burnout page this weekend

Hi everyone,
      I'm going to do some updating to the Burnout page this weekend.
If anyone has anything to contribute, please send to me direct. For
anyone new to the list, this page is open to all Oldsmobiles,and a
select few others:)
I also have an owners gallery for all year Olds' ...if you don't have
a page and would like one, please feel free to send me pics and a
description and I'll be glad to make a page for you.
      I don't have them on the page yet, but the newest additions to
the burnout page will be one of my friends car, it's an 85 Cutlass
Supreme Brougham....with 510 ci of B/S Mondello 455 w/ EFI ....Awesome
burnout....you can see the pics at:
  http://members.tripod.com/~SuperOlds/rx1.jpg
  http://members.tripod.com/~SuperOlds/rx2.jpg

        Hope everyone has a nice weekend....sorry I won't be at RT
tonight...It's been a really loooonnnnggg week.
     Oh yeah, almost forgot, the link to the Burnout page is in my sig
file.
            Later,




==
John McJunkin ( The Sman ) mailto:super442@yahoo.com
  ICQ # 16956740      Lithia Springs, Ga.
TOPLESS--1985 Cutlass--frog442's 84---my 69 442
1982 Cutlass Cruiser Wagon(g-body)--soon to be V-8 !
http://members.tripod.com/~SuperOlds/
Check out my Burnout page-send me pics of your's and I'll add it
- -http://members.tripod.com/~SuperOlds/Burnouts
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 18:28:07 -0800
From: "John Young" <realtorjohn@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: The Auto Web poll

Guys (and gals this list is sort of PC) the Fixed Or Repaired Daily crowd
is making a run, they are up to 14% VS Olds' 22%. Lead is slipping. Check
it out @
 http://www.autoweb.com/company/surveyresult.awi

realtorjohn@sprynet.com
69 442 W-32


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 21:55:31 -0500
From: "latisha m. grady" <gradylat@gpc.peachnet.edu>
Subject: e-mail to oldsmobile group disscution

I am curios about new 1999 olds Alero.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 21:57:22 EST
From: KASOLDS@aol.com
Subject: Re: Update to burnout page this weekend

Hi, I was just wondering what the address of your burnout page is.  I saw the
pics you list on your e-mail.  Pretty cool!

Keith

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 22:06:03 EST
From: DKlauber@aol.com
Subject: Re: 442 to buy

I found mine by place a wanted ad in 442.com.  Also good to check out Classic
Car Trader on line and Deals on Wheels on line.  Hemmings is always a good
source, but all of these are nation wide.  Although you can search a State or
Region in trader on line.
David  OCA# 30416
70 442 W-30 conv

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 22:01:00 EST
From: DKlauber@aol.com
Subject: Re: Paint Colors

I've got a 70 442 W-30 conv that is Aegean Aqua.  It is a great color and
really stands out.  At dusk it looks Viking Blue and also photos that color.
My 71 442 conv was Viking Blue, and I like the Aegean Aqua a little better.
David OCA# 30416

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 22:28:55 EST
From: OLDS44272@aol.com
Subject: Re: 442?

                    I feel it is his car. If he wants it to be made to look
like a 442, then go for it. Just done pass it off as a real one. I do like the
idea of just having the grills and removing the emblems.     This is almost
like having a kit car, or turning a Fiero in a Ferrari. The owner of a car can
do what they want to it. Just don't try to scam anybody. Enjoy
it.................SCOTT

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 21:42:11 PST
From: "jason shreve" <jasonshreve@hotmail.com>
Subject: Content-Type: text/plain

You don't want much do you?  It is hard enough to find a 442, much less
a convertible 442!!!

>
>Hey list,
>I am just know starting interest into rebuilding old muscle cars, and
>would like to start off with a 70 convert. olds 442.  Anyone know
>where I can start looking to find one?  I would prefer one that still
>runs but not necessary.
>
>Thanks,
>cb, south ga
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________
>DO YOU YAHOO!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 23:53:57 -0600
From: Kerry Kroger <kerryk@CWIX.com>
Subject: Re: A Picture Perfect Launch

big deal it is a publicity stunt no scientific value he quit as an astronaut
and there ya go I'll put away my soap box please dont bother to reply this
never belonged here anyway but I just couldnt let it go...KK
- -----Original Message-----
From: Timothy A. Churchill <tchurchill@draper.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Thursday, October 29, 1998 1:38 PM
Subject: OT: A Picture Perfect Launch


>
>Off-topic, I know...
>
>They had both of the big screen displays in one of the Simulation Labs
>at work set up to watch the STS-95 launch.  After a couple of holds --
>one for some yahoo flying a plane too close to the launch site --
>it was a picture perfect shuttle launch.  I was surprised, got a lump in
>the old throat.
>
>Godspeed, John Glenn!
>
>P.S. The only shuttle launch I ever saw in person was the Challenger launch
:P
>
>Tim Churchill  tchurchill@draper.com  OCA #30327  Framingham, MA
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
>'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, new a.k.a 'Old Gold'
>'98 VW Passat GLS Wagon, a.k.a. 'der Kinderwagen'

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 00:25:09 -0600
From: "Danzig" <danzig@midwest.net>
Subject: rear end lube

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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I am thinking about changing my rear end grease this weekend. Any thing I
should special I should know?  I have never change rear end grease before.
It isn't limited slip, so I don't need to add a special lube do I?  What
would be a good recommended lube? Thanks danzig@midwest.net


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 02:21:10 -0500
From: "Brian Lorway" <lorway@home.net>
Subject: Re: Loctite Blue or Red >Re: Steering gear?

Try these guys... http://www.loctite.com/  Technical Data Sheets have all
the specs on strength, cure time etc.

Brian

1970 4-4-2 W-30, 4-Speed
1971 4-4-2 W-30, Convertible
1987 GN (WE2)
OCA # 028157
www.wmachines.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: Matthew Bremmer <bremmer@otter.cray.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Date: Thursday, October 29, 1998 7:35 PM
Subject: Loctite Blue or Red >Re: Steering gear?


>What is the difference between the blue and red loctite?  I realize
>there is the strength difference, but my loctite 271 says it will take a
>torch to get it off.  So what kind of strength does the blue have?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 07:00:01 -0400
From: Jonathan Parke <jonparke@together.net>
Subject: Re: 442?

Been reading all the threads about making a 442.

The beauty of art is that it's true value is in the eye of the beholder.

My '72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible frame-off customization has among other
changes:

'71 442 grills, no emblems or lettering of any kind except the rocket on
the nose, Alfa Romeo Silver paint on the body with black interior that does
not have the simulated wood grain (for an extra $30 had the re-pro factory
withhold that process), 425 EFI w/ Edelbrock Aluminum heads, custom dash
with VDO gauges, Volvo bucket seats, TH-700-R4, re-worked suspension and a
zillion other small (but interesting to me) changes and additions.

My Cutlass will never be a 442.  Might blow the doors off of one, might
not... but that's not why I'm building it.  The whole motivation for the
project has been a combination of interest in discovery, invention and
collaboration (and if in the process I happen to build a killer sleeper...
:)

I've met all sorts of people from all over; in person, on the phone and
e-mail.  Made some great friends, learned a lot, shared some of my
knowledge too.

The point is that I'm doing this because I want an interesting ride and
because I get deep enjoyment out of the process I'm going through.

But my thing may not be your thing.  I go to car shows and enjoy equally
the attempt at a "perfect" restoration, the wildly modified, the built from
scratch, the paint brushed beater and all the other variations that one can
imagine.

I like the process of creation and I like seeing what other people do.

So my opinion is:  make your car into whatever makes you feel like you are
really enjoying yourself.

Have fun,

jp

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 07:13:24 -0500 (EST)
From: KINNEYLM@webtv.net (MIKE KINNEY)
Subject: Re: 64 olds 88

I have a 64 olds super 88 (394c.i.) with an ignition problem, the
problem is when i crank it over the starter will continue to crank even
when i let off the key, i have to get out of the car and disconnect the
battery cable to shut down the starter, I replaced the starter and the
ignition switch and ignition switch connector. the starter will do this
only when its cold after it warms up its fine. any ideas out there as
this is driving me crazy. thanks.


64 olds super 88 holiday sedan
86 chev S-10
89 buick century
94 pont  transport

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 07:41:34 -0500
From: "Peter Berusch" <pber710840@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: 64 olds 88

Mike, when you replaced the starter did you also replace the solenoid?  I
had the same problem with one of my 98's.  In my case the solenoid would not
release and the starter would continue to run.  Peter.
- -----Original Message-----
From: MIKE KINNEY <KINNEYLM@webtv.net>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Friday, October 30, 1998 7:14 AM
Subject: Re: 64 olds 88


I have a 64 olds super 88 (394c.i.) with an ignition problem, the
problem is when i crank it over the starter will continue to crank even
when i let off the key, i have to get out of the car and disconnect the
battery cable to shut down the starter, I replaced the starter and the
ignition switch and ignition switch connector. the starter will do this
only when its cold after it warms up its fine. any ideas out there as
this is driving me crazy. thanks.


64 olds super 88 holiday sedan
86 chev S-10
89 buick century
94 pont  transport

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 08:07:19 -0500
From: "<GJC> Cutlass IROC-SS" <gjcouse@francomm.com>
Subject: Sticking Starter, was: 64 olds 88

Behalf Of MIKE KINNEY
Sent: Friday, October 30, 1998 7:13 AM

<Snip>

problem is when I crank it over the starter will continue to crank even
when I let off the key, I have to get out of the car and disconnect the
battery cable to shut down the starter

<GJC>

	Sounds like the starter bendix spring is deformed/stuck. Or starter 
housing
is slightly warped or their is a major miss match of bolt torquing between
the mounting bolts. Miss match between the starter and fly plate teeth.
Maybe even a warped fly plate. Or.......

- -----Regards,

   G.J.C
Gary J. Couse
Couse Customs
ICQ# 5209322
518-622-0376
mailto:gjcouse@francomm.com

Couse Custom Cutlass,
Prototype '86 CC-IROC-SS-#1 = "Quincy"
http://members.tripod.com/~cousecustoms/

Join Oldsmobile G-Body Mailing List -
http://cyberglyphs.com/gbody

Once a member, post to:
mailto:olds_gbody@listbot.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 08:36:24 EST
From: JonKrisInc@aol.com
Subject: Re: Steering gear?

In a message dated 10/29/98 6:10:02 PM EST, bremmer@otter.cray.com writes:

<< How far does the pitman arm have to go onto the
 steering geer bolt?"  >>

I'm sure the pro gearheads on this list can answer this better than I but I
replaced my steering gear last year and thought it sat higher than it actually
did. There is supposed to be a gap. If you've tightened it to specs, don't
worry, "it ain't goin nowhere".
Bruce
75 Delta 88 conv.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 05:57:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Rock Man <rockman20@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Aluminized Exhuast System

  As
> far
> as pipes rusting out from the inside out, yes this does happen but
unpainted
> mild steel pipes also rust thier fair share on the outside after
time, and
> my
> pipes were aluminized inside and out.
>
> Mike B
> mbloomer@gateway.net
>

Yes, I am completely sorry! For some reason, my brain kinda went into
a "brain fart" mode yesterday. The best bet would be to go with
aluminized inside and out. Sorry about that!
==
Rock-Man's Page
http://www.angelfire.com/nd/RockMan
1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass "S"
1986 Honda Accord DX

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 09:22:57 EST
From: RGHaun@aol.com
Subject: Returned

Please log me back in. Had a nice WARM vacation
in Tucson Arizona so am ready for winter here in Orchard Park NY.
Ron Haun (rghaun@aol.com)
71 442 W30 Convert.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 09:32:14 EST
From: SOMMERVLLE@aol.com
Subject: Re: 442?

In a message dated 10/29/98 4:28:25 PM Pacific Standard Time, Jon442@aol.com
writes:

<< Pat, it's your car, so please yourself and be happy when you are finished.

 Jon
  >>
Jon, I agree it is Pat's car let him do what he wants with it aand let him
enjoy it the way he wants. These ere the rights that I stay in uniform for, to
ensure that each person has the ability to choose, not to be told what to do,
OK enough of my flag waiving. Now on to more olds content any one find out any
more about the 84 H/O for 2200? let me know, just interested.  my .02 Thanks
Chris


CHRIS SOMMERVILLE
69 442SC
70 442HC(FOR SALE)
70 W31
AND A FEW PARTS FOR SALE!!!!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 09:53:43 EST
From: SOMMERVLLE@aol.com
Subject: paging Greg Parcells supercars unlimited

Greg am looking for a perfect 10 plate for my Olds Hauler, Help the cheapest
is around 20-25 bucks with shipping and the place said that they wern even
sure if they had it, just send them the money and wait. I think that thats
baddd juju. Let me know if you have one or can help. Thanks Chris

CHRIS SOMMERVILLE
69 442SC
70 442HC (FOR SALE)
70 W31
AND A FEW PARTS FOR SALE!!!!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 07:01:11 PST
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Karl Aune - third person dialogue?

> Sorry for the non-Olds content, but I've been dying to ask this.
> Karl Aune, why do you always refer to yourself in the third person?
> Or, is this someone who knows Karl and is refering to him? I've
> always found it a bit confusing, myself.

It's not Karl talking; it's his car. Notice that his signature
lists SOM (Soylent Ocean Mist) first, followed by Karl's initials.
SOM dictates the memos; Karl does the typing (usually). Late at
night, when "Karl" does some of his best posts, we suspect that the
car is actually doing its own posts all by itself.

Note the somewhat shaky writing skills: the car learned to do this
some time back when Karl drove it to school and parked it outside,
where it was able to follow English lessons by looking in through
the windows with its T-3s while Karl was in class. It lagged
behind in later years as its headlamps dimmed and it was no longer
able to see the blackboard. Sadly, when this was finally diagnosed
and Karl switched to halogens it was too late; the car was forced to
drop out of school and seek employment as a chauffeur, letting
people get in and drive it to where they wanted to go.

It's now in semi-retirement, living with Karl and brushing up on its
writing skills once again. We should not poke fun at it but encourage
it in its work.

- -- Andy

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 10:49:22 -0500
From: "<GJC> Cutlass IROC-SS" <gjcouse@francomm.com>
Subject: RE: Aluminized Exhuast System

- -----Original Message-----
From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of Rock Man
Subject: Re: Aluminized Exhaust System

<Snip>

The best bet would be to go with
aluminized inside and out. Sorry about that!

<GJC>

For the best $'s return, Go all Stainless Steel including clamps, bolts,
mufflers, + hangers. Catalitics are usually stainless due to their heat
buildup.

Aluminized probably costs in-between stock and Stainless $$$. The aluminized
really only protects large continual sections for a period of not to long,
(longer than stock sections). Seams, pipe ends, clamps all erode as standard
systems do and are aluminized weak points. At least that's my experience.

Want protection, quality, good looks, long term functionality? Go Stainless.
Yea, it cost twice as much+, but last longer than you'll ever need.

- -----Regards,

   G.J.C
Gary J. Couse
Couse Customs
ICQ# 5209322
518-622-0376
mailto:gjcouse@francomm.com

Couse Custom Cutlass,
'86 CC-IROC-SS-#1 = "Quincy"
http://members.tripod.com/~cousecustoms/

Join Oldsmobile G-Body Mailing List -
http://cyberglyphs.com/gbody

Once a member, post to:
mailto:olds_gbody@listbot.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 10:14:24 -0600
From: "mbloomer" <mbloomer@gateway.net>
Subject: K&N Tech Question

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Sent the question of whether the K&N will cause increased fuel=20
consumption to the K&N rep and here is what he sent me back.

Hi Mike,

I have sent your mail onto our colleagues in the States and have asked =
them to
mail you direct with some answers.

I won't pretend to know the in's and out's of the Latent Power theory, =
all I
can tell you is after installing a K&N Filter (assuming you drive =
consistently
before and after fitting) you will need less throttle use to maintain =
the
same
rate of acceleration or cruising speed, which normally means using less =
fuel.
But as I said this all assumes you drive in the same manner.

It's not a very good explanation, but the guy's in the States should be
able to
give you all the info you need.

Please let me know if you don't hear anything from them, I know their =
really
busy but this matter does need addressing as soon as possible.

Regards

Chris
K&N Europe

At 22:06 29/10/98 , you wrote:=20
>
> Chris,=20
> The question of K&N's and open element air cleaners causing=20
> increased fuel consumption has been a topic of discussion on
> our Oldsmobile mailing list here in the US/Canada. The main
> jist of it is that if you have a restrictive intake system and put=20
> an open element air cleaner on a typical yank V8 then that
> therefore opens a large restriction in the intake system and=20
> allows more air flow into the motor. Therefore your carberator
> will meter more fuel into the engine under all conditions, not=20
> just under WOT. In some cases installing a free flowing=20
> filter will actually cause a lean condition which will lead to lower
> fuel consumtion but when the carb is adjusted to richen it up=20
> it will then use more fuel. Sorry to bother you with this but we
> have some people that are hotly contesting this and would like
> the opinion of the makers of some of these products. Whether
> were asking the right person or not is up to you. Thank you=20
> very much for your help.
>=20
> Mike B
> <mailto:mbloomer@gateway.net>mbloomer@gateway.net





******************************************
Chris Smith=20
Marketing Supervisor
K&N Filters (Europe) Ltd. England
****************************************** =20


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>Sent the question of whether the K&amp;N will =
cause=20
increased fuel </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>consumption to the K&amp;N rep and here is =
what he sent=20
me back.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>Hi Mike,<BR><BR>I have sent your mail onto =
our=20
colleagues in the States and have asked them to<BR>mail you direct with =
some=20
answers.<BR><BR>I won't pretend to know the in's and out's of the Latent =
Power=20
theory, all I<BR>can tell you is after installing a K&amp;N Filter =
(assuming you=20
drive consistently<BR>before and after fitting) you will need less =
throttle use=20
to maintain the<BR>same<BR>rate of acceleration or cruising speed, which =

normally means using less fuel.<BR>But as I said this all assumes you =
drive in=20
the same manner.<BR><BR>It's not a very good explanation, but the guy's =
in the=20
States should be<BR>able to<BR>give you all the info you =
need.<BR><BR>Please let=20
me know if you don't hear anything from them, I know their =
really<BR>busy but=20
this matter does need addressing as soon as=20
possible.<BR><BR>Regards<BR><BR>Chris<BR>K&amp;N Europe<BR><BR>At 22:06 =
29/10/98=20
, you wrote: <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Chris, <BR>&gt; The question of K&amp;N's =
and open=20
element air cleaners causing <BR>&gt; increased fuel consumption has =
been a=20
topic of discussion on<BR>&gt; our Oldsmobile mailing list here in the=20
US/Canada. The main<BR>&gt; jist of it is that if you have a restrictive =
intake=20
system and put <BR>&gt; an open element air cleaner on a typical yank V8 =
then=20
that<BR>&gt; therefore opens a large restriction in the intake system =
and=20
<BR>&gt; allows more air flow into the motor. Therefore your =
carberator<BR>&gt;=20
will meter more fuel into the engine under all conditions, not <BR>&gt; =
just=20
under WOT. In some cases installing a free flowing <BR>&gt; filter will =
actually=20
cause a lean condition which will lead to lower<BR>&gt; fuel consumtion =
but when=20
the carb is adjusted to richen it up <BR>&gt; it will then use more =
fuel. Sorry=20
to bother you with this but we<BR>&gt; have some people that are hotly=20
contesting this and would like<BR>&gt; the opinion of the makers of some =
of=20
these products. Whether<BR>&gt; were asking the right person or not is =
up to=20
you. Thank you <BR>&gt; very much for your help.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Mike =
B<BR>&gt;=20
&lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:mbloomer@gateway.net">mailto:mbloomer@gateway.net</A>&gt;<=
A=20
href=3D"mailto:mbloomer@gateway.net">mbloomer@gateway.net</A><BR><BR><BR>=
<BR><BR><BR>******************************************<BR>Chris=20
Smith <BR>Marketing Supervisor<BR>K&amp;N Filters (Europe) Ltd.=20
England<BR>******************************************&nbsp;=20
<BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01BE03EE.119DB300--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 10:25:24 -0600
From: "mbloomer" <mbloomer@gateway.net>
Subject: Re: 64 olds 88

How cold is it when it won't disengage?  If it is a frosty morning then
I would look at having ice in the starter causing it to stick open.  When
did you replace the starter, before or after you started having the prob?
The prob sounds like its either in the shaft the bendix slides on or may
be a sticking solenoid.  One way to rule everything else out is to wire
in a couple wires and run that back to a light you can see from inside
the car.  Wire it in so that it comes on when the solenoid is triggered.
If, when the starter won't disengage, the light continues to stay on then
you have an electrical problem.  If the light goes off and the starter
continues to run its a starter problem.  One other thing is that the starter
may need to be shimmed and is too close to the flywheel.  Good luck.

Mike B
mbloomer@gateway.net



I have a 64 olds super 88 (394c.i.) with an ignition problem, the
problem is when i crank it over the starter will continue to crank even
when i let off the key, i have to get out of the car and disconnect the
battery cable to shut down the starter, I replaced the starter and the
ignition switch and ignition switch connector. the starter will do this
only when its cold after it warms up its fine. any ideas out there as
this is driving me crazy. thanks.

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #1579
*********************************
