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Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #1566


oldsmobile-digest      Friday, October 23 1998      Volume 01 : Number 1566



72 Cutlass Supreme saga continues
Re: Oil pan sealage
PERFORMANCE
Re: Mileage on 75 Cutlass {old Spark plugs}
Metric 200 tranny
Rolling Stock
Re: New List
KNOCKING TRANNY
PERFORMANCE
Re: Convertible Top Question..
Re: 72 Cutlass Supreme saga and a 72 S for Sale
Re: KNOCKING TRANNY
Re: KNOCKING TRANNY
Re: Oil pan sealage
Re: KNOCKING TRANNY
Re: KNOCKING TRANNY
IROC Cutlass Spotted!
Re: IROC Cutlass Spotted!
floor shifter help
Re: Olds Ads
Re: Engine Ping -- Ignition vs. Octane
Re: KNOCKING TRANNY
Re: floor shifter help
Re: Olds Ads
Re: Ticka Ticka (was somethin else)
Re: Soylent's brakes
Re: PERFORMANCE
Re: Rolling Stock
H/O Emblem Placement
car book
Re: Other four barrels don't work and vaccuume is low (long)
ThermAC Questions
Re: Ticka Ticka (was somethin else)
Re: PERFORMANCE
Re: Soylent's brakes
Re: Ticka Ticka (was somethin else)
Re: ThermAC Questions
Re: Other four barrels don't work and vaccuume is low (long)
NSCA meet Columbus
Re: Soylent's brakes
Re: PERFORMANCE
Rear End sealing/fluids
Re: Other four barrels don't work and vaccuume is low (long)
Re: Rocket Talk
Pics of my Car
Re: floor shifter help
Re: Pics of my Car
Re: Pics of my Car
Re: Olds Ads
Re: Daytona under the lights, 8:00
Re: Other four barrels don't work and vaccuume is low (long)
Re: car book
Fwd: 1977 Olds Delta 88 pace car
TherMac Mk II
Re: O/D Transmissions
Heating/AC
Re: Pics of my Car
Re: Ticka Ticka (was somethin else)
Re: Other four barrels don't work and vaccuume is low (long)
Re: TherMac Mk II

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:46:08 -0400
From: "Jason P. Labay" <jlabay@neo.lrun.com>
Subject: 72 Cutlass Supreme saga continues

Well this week I have added some more creature comforts to the 72 Supreme.  
What
started out as a drag only car is turning into a cruise/track car.  I installed
dual heated power mirrors from a late 80's Trans Am. That didn't go as bad as I
imagined.  After really looking over the 66 Delta 88 with the Hi Comp 425 that 
I
planned to drop into the 72, I have scrapped that idea.  The 66 Delta is in
greater shape than I imagined. No rust or bondo, solid and clean underneath.
Even the engine looks new and all the documentation, protecto plate (or what
ever you call it) is there. Interior is immaculate.  Very solid car that I just
can't bring myself to ripping up.  So it looks like I will be obtaining a
freshly rebuilt 1995 Corvette LT1 / 4L60E combo.  It was built to run mid to 
low
12's in the 1/4 and I still will be able to pull down 20+ mpg which the 425
would have had trouble doing. And anyaws in keeping with my modernizing theme 
of
the car the newer computer controlled motor fits nicely.  If I could have got a
built Olds motor as cheap as I got this LT1 I would have...gotta do the budget
thing.

Jason Labay  Akron, OH jlabay@neo.lrun.com
http://home.neo.lrun.com/jlabay

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 13:49:00 -0500
From: "Mick Gillespie" <mgillespie@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Oil pan sealage

- -----Original Message-----
From: Padavano.Joe@orbital.com <Padavano.Joe@orbital.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Thursday, October 22, 1998 1:28 PM
Subject: Re: Oil pan sealage


>...put the front & rear (rubber) seals on the pan...
>__________
>
>I don't think you can do this on a Olds.  The front seal
must fit into a
>groove on the front cover, and there are molded pins in the
seal that fit
>into holes in the bottom of the groove.  Doing this with
the seal glued to
>the pan will be a challenge, to say the least.

It's also important not to tighten down the oil pan until
you at least get the front cover back on the dowl pins.
There is no way you can get the cover and seal back on if
the oil pan is securely bolted down.
===================================================
Mick Gillespie
1969 Cutlass S Conv.
1980 Toronado Brougham
http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/mgillespie/oldspage.htm
mgillespie@sprynet.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:49:35 -0400
From: "Frank Montero" <parc@erols.com>
Subject: PERFORMANCE

QUESTION!!!!!!!!!!!
HOW CAN I INCREASE PERFORMANCE AND ECONOMIZE ON GAS WITHOUT SPENDING A
FORTUNE. PLEASE NO ADDITIVES

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 12:49:24 -0600
From: Eric <big_olds@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Mileage on 75 Cutlass {old Spark plugs}

Power I haven't noticed any great changes, but then again, it's a 75 350
in a Big car, so Power is not quite the word of the day for this beast
(plus I just drove it on the highway for the first little while, and
din't really torture it any).  Advance vacuum is definitely a good place
to look, I belive I'll investigate the whole timing / advance thing in
detail before taking Mr. Carb to Mr. Mechanic.  Thanx a lot for the
idea, any others are still welcome!


TimLeary97@aol.com wrote:
>
> Have you investigated a vacuum problem?  Mayble the ignition timing is not
> advancing?  Have you noticed a loss of power with the decrease in fuel
> efficiency?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:59:42 -0400
From: CCAC Network User cgc74 <cgc74@unix1.ccac.edu>
Subject: Metric 200 tranny

This is my first post to the list.  I have been subcribing for about a
month now.  I don't have any questions right now, and I haven't had the
answers to many of other peoples.  I am learning alot though, and am
impressed with the amount of knowledge here.  The following is a message
I recently recieved.  I don't know much about transmissions and I am
hoping one of you can offer him some help
you can respond directly to:Nate Rush-   Nday_69@hotmail.com
or if you respond to my e-mail (cgc74@unix1.ccac.edu) or to the list I
can forward it to him.
- -Chris Carlson
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> I have an eight-four cutlass  I think it has a 305 in it,
> but I am not sure.  It looks too wide to be the chevy 305.
> The person I got it off of said it was a 305.  It has a
> Metric 200 tranny on it.  The tranny went out and I want to
> replace it.  I didn't think that a Metric 200 would bolt up
> to the chevy motor.  I would like to bolt a different tranny
> up to it,because the 200 is a light duty tranny and it doesn't
> take much of a beating.  Could you tell me if a different tranny
> that could bolt up to my engine?
>
>     Thanks
>     Nate
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Remote IP: 165.138.201.65

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:55:44 -0400
From: Chris Brown <Elric@dclink.com>
Subject: Rolling Stock

I sent out an email on my wifes list address, but dont know if it got
out to you or not.
Is there anyone who can suggest a proper offset for a set of rims?  I
plan on putting a pair of 275/60/15 s on the rear of my 72 Cutlass
Supreme, I believe I need 8 inch wide, but am not sure about the offset.

Thanks,
Chris Brown
72 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 12:06:08 -0700
From: Chris Sparks <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Subject: Re: New List

I have been noticing an abundance of Chrises on this list.  Maybe we
should
form our own list! ;-)  Just kidding folks!


- --
Chris Sparks
68 442 SC - Frosty
68 442 HT - Scarlet
68 442 HT - Saffron
82 DRB    - Dr. "B"
http://www.catalina-inter.net/mrada

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:49:26 -0400
From: "Frank Montero" <parc@erols.com>
Subject: KNOCKING TRANNY

WHENEVER I SHIFT INTO DRIVE I GET A KNOCKING SOUND. IT'S REAL AGGRAVATING.
IT ONLY DOES THIS IN DRIVE. CAN ANYONE  TELL ME WHAT THIS COULD BE?????????

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:56:50 -0400
From: "Frank Montero" <parc@erols.com>
Subject: PERFORMANCE

I WANT TO INCREASE HP AND ECONOMIZE ON GAS. WHAT CAN I DO TO MY CUTLASS 442
W/307 ENGINE TO HP AND PERFORMANCE. I REALLY WANT MY CAR TO HAVE SOME MORE
NUTS, YA KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

ANY CHIPS OR SOMETHING I CAN ADD THAT YOU OFF?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:04:23 -0400
From: dclover@epix.net
Subject: Re: Convertible Top Question..

Ditto with Gregory's comment.  Just had a new top installed on mine and
asked the guy what he thought about the pump action.  It was noisy and
slow (I thought).  All the tech did was add some fluid; it sounds
somewhat better, but still noisy and still slow.

D Jones
'70 Cutlass Conv

Gregory Zimmerman wrote:
>
> I haven't timed mine, but 15 seconds sounds about right.  My pump is
> pretty loud WITH the seat in.  If it works, don't worry about it.  As
> for the air bubbles, I read that the only method of purging the system
> is to fully run the top and down several times and the air
> automatically goes out.
>
> -greg
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Landowski <PETTRIX@prodigy.net>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Date: Wednesday, October 21, 1998 5:35 PM
> Subject: Covertible Top Question..
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:09:50 -0400
From: Don Sowers <dstaxpro@lex.infi.net>
Subject: Re: 72 Cutlass Supreme saga and a 72 S for Sale

Jason P. Labay wrote:

> have scrapped that idea.  The 66 Delta is in greater shape than I imagined. 
No
rust or bondo, solid and clean > underneath.  Even the engine looks new and all
the documentation, protecto plate (or what ever you call it) is there. >
Interior is immaculate.  Very solid car that I just can't bring myself to
ripping up.

Know the feeling about not wanting to cut up a car that is in better
shape than you thought.  I still have that 72 S I bought last year to
part out.  Somebody that likes burnt orange please buy this car.  The
car isn't new, but I do have all the service work done on it since 1972
according to the guy I bought it from.  However, as Chris Smetana can
attest, I have temporarily lost the keys.  I put them where I couldn't
lose them and now I can't find them.  Just got to remember where I hid
them from the rest of the family.  Anyhow the car is in central Ky and
has 85+K on it.  Nothing special, just a good old car with low mileage
and most records.  Any one interested, email me privately.  Thanks

Don Sowers
Nicholasville, Ky

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:24:06 -0600
From: Cliff Simpson <csimpson@ucalgary.ca>
Subject: Re: KNOCKING TRANNY

Hi Frank,
	it's probably a bad U-Joint althought it could also be a
part of the exhaust system hitting the underneath of your
car.

Frank Montero wrote:
>
> WHENEVER I SHIFT INTO DRIVE I GET A KNOCKING SOUND. IT'S REAL AGGRAVATING.
> IT ONLY DOES THIS IN DRIVE. CAN ANYONE  TELL ME WHAT THIS COULD BE?????????

- --

Cliff Simpson
'69 442/400/th400/3.23p (Kermit)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:39:42 -0400
From: "Frank Montero" <parc@erols.com>
Subject: Re: KNOCKING TRANNY

CLIFF I JUST HAD THE EXHAUST DONE 2 MONTHS AGO. NOTHING UNDER THERE IS
LOOSE. I ALSO THOUGH IT COULD BE THE U-JOINTS. LISTEN I WANT TO KNOW IF YOU
KNOW OF ANYTHING I CAN DO TO MY CAR TO GIVE IT MORE HP, MORE PERFORMANCE,
AND ECONOMIZE MORE FUEL. IN OTHER WORDS I WANT THE CAR TO HAVE A LOT MORE
NUTS. KNOW WHAT I MEAN?????????????

THANKS
- -----Original Message-----
From: Cliff Simpson <csimpson@ucalgary.ca>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Thursday, October 22, 1998 4:25 PM
Subject: Re: KNOCKING TRANNY


>
>Hi Frank,
> it's probably a bad U-Joint althought it could also be a
>part of the exhaust system hitting the underneath of your
>car.
>
>Frank Montero wrote:
>>
>> WHENEVER I SHIFT INTO DRIVE I GET A KNOCKING SOUND. IT'S REAL
AGGRAVATING.
>> IT ONLY DOES THIS IN DRIVE. CAN ANYONE  TELL ME WHAT THIS COULD
BE?????????
>
>--
>
>Cliff Simpson
>'69 442/400/th400/3.23p (Kermit)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:38:09 -0400
From: "Mike Rothe." <hurstolds@xtalwind.net>
Subject: Re: Oil pan sealage

One of the best oil pan gaskets I've used so far is the GM ones for the
307 v-8.  They are cork with steel insert.  Plus a little rtv copper
around the joints, have worked extremely well.  No leaks in 4 years.
(around the GASKETS, anyway...)

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 17:03:24 -0400
From: "Mike Rothe." <hurstolds@xtalwind.net>
Subject: Re: KNOCKING TRANNY

> KNOW OF ANYTHING I CAN DO TO MY CAR TO GIVE IT MORE HP, MORE PERFORMANCE,
> AND ECONOMIZE MORE FUEL. IN OTHER WORDS I WANT THE CAR TO HAVE A LOT MORE
> NUTS. KNOW WHAT I MEAN?????????????
>
First, try and turn off the capitalization on your keyboard.  Here in
cyberland we consider all caps yelling.  We could do without yelling
please.

Well, with a 442, gears help with performance, but they hurt gas
mileage.  But if you look at it from the point of view ~I~ do, which is
since having a a couple of 455 powered vehicles + a 502 in a truck, the
307 seems to get ASTOUNDING gas mileage.  The window sticker said 17-24
mpg EPA estimate.  I get about 21 on the highway with mine.

The unfortunate thing is, that unless you spend a grunch of money, you
won't be gaining a whole lot from the 307.  Carb and distributor
adjustments are pretty much useless, but you CAN probably bump the base
timing to 22 degrees for a LITTLE help.

Short of dropping in a 350 or 403, about the best thing you can do
affordably is go with a "chip".  These can be custom manufactured to fit
your needs.  In fact, I recall Steve Ochs on this list doing one for his
own 87 442.  Helped a little, but it's not a miracle.

Going with polyurathane bushings may help a tad as well, since there
won't be much in the way of deflection/torque absorbtion.  But the gains
on the straight run won't be very noticable, from what I've gathered.
The handling is way improved, however.

One thing you have to remember about these cars, is that compared to a
"Y" code 307 car, the performance difference is somewhat amazing.  But,
also remember it's a 307, not a 455.

Don't get sucked into the fact that anything newer is a good bet, since
the 86-88 307s, EVEN THE "9" engines/trannies, were detuned even more
than the 85 engines/trannies.  And 83/84 H/O engine components are a
waste of time, since the 85 engine and drivetrain was exactly the same.
Starting in 86, it seems as if they softened the shift of the tranny.
The 85's were hard shifting, just like the 83/84 H/Os.

Is the knock coming from the front or rear of the car?  It MAY be a
couple of things, one being worn u-joints, the other being worn tranny
guts/bearings.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:18:35 -0600
From: Cliff Simpson <csimpson@ucalgary.ca>
Subject: Re: KNOCKING TRANNY

OK,
	they were just suggestions.  As far as 307 performance goes
I know diddly/squat.  Perhaps someone else could make some
suggestions? :)

Frank Montero wrote:
>
> CLIFF I JUST HAD THE EXHAUST DONE 2 MONTHS AGO. NOTHING UNDER THERE IS
> LOOSE. I ALSO THOUGH IT COULD BE THE U-JOINTS. LISTEN I WANT TO KNOW IF YOU
> KNOW OF ANYTHING I CAN DO TO MY CAR TO GIVE IT MORE HP, MORE PERFORMANCE,
> AND ECONOMIZE MORE FUEL. IN OTHER WORDS I WANT THE CAR TO HAVE A LOT MORE
> NUTS. KNOW WHAT I MEAN?????????????
>
> THANKS
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cliff Simpson <csimpson@ucalgary.ca>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Date: Thursday, October 22, 1998 4:25 PM
> Subject: Re: KNOCKING TRANNY
>
> >
> >Hi Frank,
> > it's probably a bad U-Joint althought it could also be a
> >part of the exhaust system hitting the underneath of your
> >car.
> >
> >Frank Montero wrote:
> >>
> >> WHENEVER I SHIFT INTO DRIVE I GET A KNOCKING SOUND. IT'S REAL
> AGGRAVATING.
> >> IT ONLY DOES THIS IN DRIVE. CAN ANYONE  TELL ME WHAT THIS COULD
> BE?????????
> >
> >--
> >
> >Cliff Simpson
> >'69 442/400/th400/3.23p (Kermit)

- --

Cliff Simpson
'69 442/400/th400/3.23p (Kermit)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 17:18:21 -0500
From: "Mark Tupper" <mtupper@palacenet.net>
Subject: IROC Cutlass Spotted!

Well folks,

Just got back in from an all too brief viewing of Gary Couse's "Quincy". He
made it down to the offices in Woodstock to show the car to me...

Let's just say that it's a definite eye-catcher. Gary's descriptions, even
though eloquent, don't really do the car justice... Honestly the first word
out of my mouth was, simply, Wow.

I personally thought that it was finished product, until Gary pointed out
some very minor "fit & finish" things that only a perfectionist would
notice... When he turned on to the street where our offices are located,
there was no mistaking this effort. We only talked for 15 minutes or so
(It's getting chilly here), but everyone that walked by while I was admiring
it, had positive comments...One guy in particular, with a big smile, and
wide eyes said it best. "NICE CAR!"  The two words every Olds lover like to
hear. <g> I also noticed several off my co-workers with their noses pressed
against the window!

Also, there's no mistaking this for a Monte Carlo or Buick...It *does* say
Oldsmobile, from the moment you see it. The pictures and scans of the car
don't do it justice, and it really does need to be seen in person to get the
whole effect. But it's definitely worth checking out.

And, it turns out that Gary is a pretty nice guy... So... thanks again Gary,
It looks like you have a winner to me.

- -Mark Tupper  1987 442    (OCA #30666)
 mtupper@palacenet.net        http://cyberglyphs.com/442/
Olds G-Body Mailing List        http://cyberglyphs.com/gbody/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:39:23 -0700
From: Chris Sparks <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Subject: Re: IROC Cutlass Spotted!

Mark Tupper wrote:

> Just got back in from an all too brief viewing of Gary Couse's "Quincy". He

Ok.  Where are the pics at?

- --
Chris Sparks
68 442 SC - Frosty
68 442 HT - Scarlet
68 442 HT - Saffron
82 DRB    - Dr. "B"
http://www.catalina-inter.net/mrada

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 17:46:02 -0400
From: "Patton" <patton@ComCAT.COM>
Subject: floor shifter help

List....

OK gang  - The auto floor shifter in my 67' has two sets of holes for
bolting to the floor - grab the assy manual - says "A" car uses front holes
and "B" car uses back holes - this is a Cutlass only assy manual so it
does not apply to the body type - the shifter was hacked and bolted with
the wrong cable but now I wish to do it right....Any help ???
TH400 - 2 door hard top...


Tanks
The General

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 15:47:47 -0400
From: "VBDeveloper" <vbdeveloper@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Olds Ads

Anything with '69 98 CONVERTIBLE ONLY. I live in Boca so deal will be fast

- ----------
> From: Toby Blom <floridarealtor@Worldnet.ATT.NET>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Olds Ads
> Date: Sunday, October 18, 1998 03:19 AM
>
> Guys / Gals, I'm Tired, and its late.....but.....
> just came home from a local event in Ft.Lauderdale, and managed to by
> 125 Olds ads ( full page ) mounted in cardboard, in plastic bags....,
> cost me a cutlass and a half....
> got from 1943 to 1973, lots of toronado ads....
> everything in mint condition
>
> If you want one, mail me wath youre lookng for, and I'll check
> $ $7.00 pr. ad, including regular postage.
> Give me a week, and I'll post what I have
>
> Toby

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 08:13:38 -0400
From: rocket409@juno.com (Ray Costanzo)
Subject: Re: Engine Ping -- Ignition vs. Octane

O
>he advises that I've got an "octane or gas ping" and not a "spark
>ping"  (he
>can hear the difference between the two

No he can't,

>switched to Sunoco 94 recently, but no help.  He's recommending Sunoco
>racing
>fuel (available at some stations
If the car can't run on 94, something just isn't tuned right.  Racing
fuel would be a waste.

) or some sort of lead addititive to
>lube the
>valves.
>
>Do any of you folks use additives?
>
On hot days while I was in Tucson, where only 92 octane was available,
I'd sometimes add a bit of Outlaw Octane Boost.  I think that is the most
potent and works quite well.  I learned quickly that it was cheaper to
use that than to add a couple of gallons of "Nascar" 100 octane 76 gas.



>What kind?
>
>Are they harmful?
>
>Is the pinging harmful?
>
VERY! I blew a piston once already because of improper combustion.  That
was not cool.

>What is actually causing the sound (what's hitting what) and what do
>timing
>and octane have to do with it?

The sound you are hearing is the air-fuel igniting itself before the
spark gets a chance to do it.  Others can explain this more precisely
than I.

Scott, I've been fighting with this problem in my car for a while now,
and no matter what I do, the only way I can get my car not to ping is to
disconnect the advance.  This sucks though because I spit out raw fuel at
high rpms.  I leave the advance disconnected daily, but when I feel I
have some patience to burn off, I reconnect it and try to get my car to
run properly with it hooked up.  No success yet!  Let me know if you
figure out anything.

Ray Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass
Bucks County, PA

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:58:37 -0600
From: Tom Starkey <tstarkey@uswest.net>
Subject: Re: KNOCKING TRANNY

Did the knock start about the time the exhaust was done? I get a little
knock from mine after I had the headers installed, the A frame bumps the
header pipe.

Tom S. - '68 Cutlass Supreme

>
> Frank Montero wrote:
> >
> > CLIFF I JUST HAD THE EXHAUST DONE 2 MONTHS AGO. NOTHING UNDER THERE IS
> > LOOSE. I ALSO THOUGH IT COULD BE THE U-JOINTS.
> > >
> > >--
> > >
> > >Cliff Simpson
> > >'69 442/400/th400/3.23p (Kermit)
>
> --
>
> Cliff Simpson
> '69 442/400/th400/3.23p (Kermit)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:28:13 -0400
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: floor shifter help

OK gang  - The auto floor shifter in my 67' has two sets of holes for
bolting to the floor - grab the assy manual - says "A" car uses front holes
and "B" car uses back holes - this is a Cutlass only assy manual so it
does not apply to the body type - the shifter was hacked and bolted with
the wrong cable but now I wish to do it right....Any help ???
TH400 - 2 door hard top...
_________

Actually, the "A" car and "B" car references _do_ refer to body type.  That
may be a Cutlass assembly manual, but the original Olds engineering
drawings often covered more than one car line.  The drawings in the
assembly manual have a small box near the title block that says something
like "car line" or "effectivity" or something like that.  You'll find A,
A-B, A-E, and any combination.  Many of the parts are common across car
lines (like engine brackets, for example), so only one drawing was made.
If you look through all the drawings in your manual, you'll find that they
all refer to the "A" body, but some also cover other bodies as well.

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:33:06 -0400
From: "Peter Berusch" <pber710840@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Olds Ads

How's about 1966 Toronado and/or 1966 98 convertible? Peter.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:34:22 -0600
From: "Fred Orcutt" <f_m_o@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Ticka Ticka (was somethin else)

Pulling the valve covers and manipulating the rockers a bit will make it
clear which rockers/pivots have too much lash, even those you can't hear
just yet.  Might as well pull and replace the pushrods for those valves at
the same time, since an off-plumb rod could create the lash even if the
rocker and pivot are okay.  It's a good idea to buy a few extra pushrods,
rockers & pivots to have around for when you need them.  The price is too
low not to.

- -----Original Message-----


|My experiences with Olds V8s is that the rocker arm/pivot design is
|prone to wear in the saddles, mostly with lots of miles, and then the
|valve lash is not correct, since they aren't adjustable. This creates
|the ticking sound. The only real fix is to replace the arms and pivots.
|
|Jim...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 17:45:34 -0500
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: Soylent's brakes

Karl,
Don't think so, Sounds like prev. post. rear end grease on linings.
Lou
- ----------
> From: KarlAune@aol.com
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Soylent's brakes
> Date: Thursday, October 22, 1998 11:42 AM
>
> In a message dated 98-10-22 07:24:31 EDT, you write:
>
> << Definitely sounds like brake drum coated with foreign material. Either
oil
>  from the axle or brake fluid from cylinder. Should be obvious when you
get
>  it apart. >>
>
> Wouldn't oil or fluid cause slip, not grab??
>
> Oil seal possible, opposite side one has been replaced twice.....
>
> Karl thought of something.
>
> Got three new shocks on.
> Not in corner that grabs!
> Could axle have bent between absorb/no absorb?
>
> Thanks!
>
> SOM
>
> &KA
> ICQ #20414415
> http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/thurlow/858/index.html
> http://members.aol.com/KarlAune/rage.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 17:51:58 -0500
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: PERFORMANCE

Frank,
takes more fuel and air to go faster. less fuel and air for economy.
(overly simplified).
Lou b

- ----------
> From: Frank Montero <parc@erols.com>
> To: OLDSMOBILE@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: PERFORMANCE
> Date: Thursday, October 22, 1998 1:49 PM
>
> QUESTION!!!!!!!!!!!
> HOW CAN I INCREASE PERFORMANCE AND ECONOMIZE ON GAS WITHOUT SPENDING A
> FORTUNE. PLEASE NO ADDITIVES

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 17:55:26 -0500
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: Rolling Stock

Chris,
do not go overboard on the offset, hard on bearings. just enuff to clear.
Joe, do you know specifics.
Lou Biggs
lbiggs@intertek.net

> From: Chris Brown <Elric@dclink.com>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Rolling Stock
> Date: Thursday, October 22, 1998 1:55 PM
>
> I sent out an email on my wifes list address, but dont know if it got
> out to you or not.
> Is there anyone who can suggest a proper offset for a set of rims?  I
> plan on putting a pair of 275/60/15 s on the rear of my 72 Cutlass
> Supreme, I believe I need 8 inch wide, but am not sure about the offset.
>
> Thanks,
> Chris Brown
> 72 Cutlass Supreme
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:01:21 -0500
From: "John Kreitzer" <john.kreitzer@gte.net>
Subject: H/O Emblem Placement

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BDFDE5.F9725640
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi All,=20

I was wondering if anyone has specific dimensions on location of the H/O =
Emblems on the 72 Hurst hardtop. On the 2 that go on the vinyl roof, =
could someone tell me how far back from the drip rail, and how far up =
from the bottom molding they go? Same goes for the one on the trunk lid, =
how far from lower edge of trunk and how far from outside edge of trunk =
lid.=20

Thanks in advance,=20

John=20
john.kreitzer@gte.net =20

- ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BDFDE5.F9725640
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3509.100"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#f0e8d8>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Hi All, </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I was wondering if anyone has =
specific=20
dimensions on location of the H/O Emblems on the 72 Hurst hardtop. On =
the 2 that=20
go on the vinyl roof, could someone tell me how far back from the drip =
rail, and=20
how far up from the bottom molding they go? Same goes for the one on the =
trunk=20
lid, how far from lower edge of trunk and how far from outside edge of =
trunk=20
lid.&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Thanks in =
advance,&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>John&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"mailto:john.kreitzer@gte.net">john.kreitzer@gte.net</A>&nbsp;&nbs=
p;</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BDFDE5.F9725640--

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:27:04 -0500
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: car book

To all,
Bought dad a book on old cars, years ago, called Encyclopedia of American
cars, 1946 to 1959. dad's gone, have the book back. has some great pictures
of 46 to 59 Olds's. Now, if you' all would chip in an get me a good scanner
I would be happy to share..... Just a joke!  Will be buying one shortly,
soon as I sell some more deer sausage. Oh yeah, 75 out of body shop
tomorrow. Looks pretty good except for crack in grille. New mirrors look
great. thanks to Everett @ E & G. Still in OE boxes, perfect shape! thanks
E.
Lou Biggs
lbiggs@intertek.net

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 19:29:15 -0400
From: "Dave Cullen" <david.cullen@snet.net>
Subject: Re: Other four barrels don't work and vaccuume is low (long)

>  Q-jets do not use vacuum operated secondaries.  They
>are mechanical, with an air valve above that's operated by air flow rate,
>not vacuum.

Clarification, please. On ~my~ Q-Jet, the secondary air plates are held
closed by a vacuum diaphram. At WOT, vacuum drops, the diaphram releases,
allowing the rear air valves to be pulled open by air flowing thru the
secondary throttle bores. The throttle shafts are connected by spring loaded
mechanical linkage, but the secondary air plates are definitely vacuum
operated (more correctly, "lack-o-vacuum" operated).

Isn't this the case with all Q-Jets?

drc

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 19:41:50 -0400
From: "Andersons" <robertan@cfw.com>
Subject: ThermAC Questions

Can anyone share experience/knowledge on these?
- -----Original Message-----
From: Andersons <robertan@cfw.com>
To: Andrew C. Green <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Date: Thursday, October 22, 1998 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: Vaccuum Diagrams


>Neither one held vacuum at all- bled off as fast as I could pump it.  Did
>not consider the bleed-off idea, but I'd have a hard time believeing they
>would design this thing to be such a vacuum drain on the engine.  Still,
>just to check, I'll hook it up to manifold vacuum once to see if I can move
>the flap.
>
>I do have the preheat tube, but not really tight, as engine never draws air
>thru it, anyway.  The air cleaner swap was years ago, so no returns now.
>
>Thanks for your thoughts.  I'll post to the list to check for other input.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Andrew C. Green <acg_o@hotmail.com>
>To: robertan@cfw.com <robertan@cfw.com>
>Date: Thursday, October 22, 1998 11:32 AM
>Subject: Re: Vaccuum Diagrams
>
>
>>> I could not move the ThermAC vacuum motor on my air cleaner
>>> with a hand vac pump at 30", so I picked up another one at
>>> a yard.  Guess what- same thing! I guess these things don't
>>> last 25 years....
>>
>>Couple thoughts here: Did it (either of them) hold vacuum but not
>>move, or not hold vacuum at all?
>>
>>1a) If it holds vacuum but doesn't budge, try "helping" it to move
>>and/or soaking the moving parts with Liquid Wrench for a while
>>
>>1b) If it doesn't hold vacuum, it _might_ be a ported design like
>>some EGR valves, and you need a constant vacuum draw (such as a
>>running engine) to test it; a hand pump won't do it since the port
>>will vent vacuum easily as fast as you can draw it.
>>
>>> Do you know of a way to fix these things?
>>
>>Frankly no; I think to begin with the ThermAC retainer strap is
>>spot-welded to the snorkel.
>>
>>I'd suggest (1) making sure the vacuum-pump test will work on the
>>ThermAC, then (2) taking your vacuum pump to the yard with you when
>>you return the bad one you bought, and testing 'em until you find
>>one that works.
>>
>>I mean, you may be able to fix it depending on what it is that went
>>wrong (e.g. diaphragm, linkage), but this seems like something that
>>is more easily solved by tossing it and getting another, assuming
>>you're not after some particularly rare one.
>>
>>> my 350 does run a bit rough (cold mornings) during choke transition-
>>> about 5 minutes after starting.  I think warm air would help.
>>
>>Yes, it might. I assume you've got the preheat tube going down to
>>the exhaust manifold all nice and tight as well. Is the choke
>>pulling off too soon, maybe?
>>
>>Regards,
>>Andy
>>
>>______________________________________________________
>>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 20:38:20 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Ticka Ticka (was somethin else)

Are all pushrods for a given motor available in one length only, or can
they be had in different lengths? Never heard this discussed here, aside
from talk about adjustable ones a while back...

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 06:32:24 -0400
From: rocket409@juno.com (Ray Costanzo)
Subject: Re: PERFORMANCE

BUY A HONDA!
On Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:49:35 -0400 "Frank Montero" <parc@erols.com>
writes:
>QUESTION!!!!!!!!!!!
>HOW CAN I INCREASE PERFORMANCE AND ECONOMIZE ON GAS WITHOUT SPENDING A
>FORTUNE. PLEASE NO ADDITIVES
>
>

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:43:31 -0500
From: Matthew Bremmer <bremmer@otter.cray.com>
Subject: Re: Soylent's brakes

Wouldn't oil or fluid cause slip, not grab??
 ___________

 One of the great unexplained mysteries of the universe is why foriegn
 fluids on brake shoes cause grabbing instead of slipping.  Not
intuitive,
 but true.


A mechanic told me at one time that it is the material the break is made
out of the way it interacts with with the break fluid /oil.  Just my .02

Matt

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:49:37 -0500
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: Ticka Ticka (was somethin else)

Greg,
used to make adjustable ones, don't think they do anymore. all the same
length, unfortunately, at least, haven't seen any.
Lou

> From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Ticka Ticka (was somethin else)
> Date: Thursday, October 22, 1998 6:38 PM
>
> Are all pushrods for a given motor available in one length only, or can
> they be had in different lengths? Never heard this discussed here, aside
> from talk about adjustable ones a while back...
>
> Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 20:51:35 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: ThermAC Questions

According to my service manual, these open at 5 to 9 inches of vacuum.
Don't forget that there are 2 parts to this system, the vac motor in the
snorkel and a temp sensor with vacuum ports mounted inside the air
cleaner. That starts shutting off vacuum to the vac motor at 85 degrees
and is fully open at 128 degrees (at least for a '68).

So engine vacuum goes to the temp sensor first, then is either routed or
not to the vac motor in the snorkel depending on temperature. If it helps,
both parts are replaceable according to the book. Don't know if they are
still available though.

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:55:05 -0500
From: Matthew Bremmer <bremmer@otter.cray.com>
Subject: Re: Other four barrels don't work and vaccuume is low (long)

Q-jets do not use vacuum operated secondaries.  They
are mechanical, with an air valve above that's operated by air flow
rate,not vacuum.
- ----------------------

I think what is being referred to here is that the secondaries don't
"truly" engage until there is a significant amount of air movement.
Because the quadrajet is designed to have the secondaries engage with
air movement not WOT.  There is a really good book on carburetors I
bought from amazon.com called "Carburetor Performance : How to Tune &
Modify" for only a measily 13.56 pluss a couple for shipping.  It has a
lot of theory for carburetion and talks about a lot of different
carburetor designs.

Matt

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 19:46:08 EDT
From: RPTW32@aol.com
Subject: NSCA meet Columbus

To any around the Columbus.Oh area , this weekend is the World Finals for the
Natl Street Car assoc. and I along with another from my area are attending and
participating in both the S/ET class as well as the DOT bracket shootout.

If in the area this is an event that is worth spectating and I almost wish
(ALMOST)
that I wasn't running so I could just watch.  Nah ! racing and winning are
more fun.

maybe see any there - Come on up and introduce yourself from the list , always
nice to put a face to the name. I have a 69 442 Orange w/ black top

Rgds,
Rob Thomas

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:56:14 -0500
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: Soylent's brakes

Matt,
Brake fluid or grease causes the pad material to swell, thus causing that
wheel to lock prematurely. Don't know about carbon/metallic pads or shoes.
Lou

> From: Matthew Bremmer <bremmer@otter.cray.com>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Soylent's brakes
> Date: Thursday, October 22, 1998 6:43 PM
>
> Wouldn't oil or fluid cause slip, not grab??
>  ___________
>
>  One of the great unexplained mysteries of the universe is why foriegn
>  fluids on brake shoes cause grabbing instead of slipping.  Not
> intuitive,
>  but true.
>
>
> A mechanic told me at one time that it is the material the break is made
> out of the way it interacts with with the break fluid /oil.  Just my .02
>
> Matt

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:58:23 -0500
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: PERFORMANCE

Ray,
Gonna start that rice burner thread all over again. Thanks for sharing.
Lou
- ----------
> From: Ray Costanzo <rocket409@juno.com>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: PERFORMANCE
> Date: Thursday, October 22, 1998 5:32 AM
>
> BUY A HONDA!
> On Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:49:35 -0400 "Frank Montero" <parc@erols.com>
> writes:
> >QUESTION!!!!!!!!!!!
> >HOW CAN I INCREASE PERFORMANCE AND ECONOMIZE ON GAS WITHOUT SPENDING A
> >FORTUNE. PLEASE NO ADDITIVES

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 20:10:57 -0500
From: Dan Williams <442much@plutonium.net>
Subject: Rear End sealing/fluids

I'm just wondering what good/bad experiences people have had with rear
end fluid.  I'm thinking about switching to synthetic, specifically the
Red line synth.  Also, wondering if I need to use any sealant on the
rear end.  I'm assuming that with a new gasket, I shouldn't have to use
any.  However, I know the Sync flow much better, and I may need
something to help seal it.

- -Dan

- --
Dan Williams                            442Much@plutonium.net
Marion, IA                                     68 442 Convertible

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:17:25 +0000
From: Bob Blanchard <bob149@uswest.net>
Subject: Re: Other four barrels don't work and vaccuume is low (long)

>
>Isn't this the case with all Q-Jets?
>

nope, not all.
Some use a the choke. on these Q-jets the secondaries won't open till
the enine is warmed up.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 20:26:47 -0500
From: Dan Williams <442much@plutonium.net>
Subject: Re: Rocket Talk

Last year we did have one and I belive it was #oldsmobile.  I agree IRC is much
better/easier.

- -Dan

Jason P. Labay wrote:

> Hey now I saw that :-) I wish we could get something set up on IRC like we do
in F-body chat.  It is much easier to use. > I would imagine that all that 
would
be needed to do is register on a server like irc.dal.net the room #oldsmobile.
Not > sure exactly how it works though. > > Jason Labay  Akron, OH
jlabay@neo.lrun.com > http://home.neo.lrun.com/jlabay > > > >8:30pm central 
time
last Thursday was unrewarding, except that J. Labay was > >distracted from a
Ch*tty room long enough for a brief dialogue.

- --
Dan Williams                            442Much@plutonium.net
Marion, IA                                     68 442 Convertible

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 21:17:54 EDT
From: TheBlue67@aol.com
Subject: Pics of my Car

    Well, i got some pics of my 67 cutlass convertible up. they consist of the
original condition of the car and pics of the car in the body shop. the car is
totally painted now eventhough i dont have pics of it painted they will be
comming soon. so until then enjoy this little page:

http://members.aol.com/TheBlue67/main.html

<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/TheBlue67/main.html">Aol members click here
</A>

Brent
1967 Cutlass Convertible

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:20:48 +0000
From: Bob Blanchard <bob149@uswest.net>
Subject: Re: floor shifter help

At 05:46 PM 10/22/98 -0400, you wrote:
>
>List....
>
>OK gang  - The auto floor shifter in my 67' has two sets of holes for
>bolting to the floor - grab the assy manual - says "A" car uses front holes
>and "B" car uses back holes - this is a Cutlass only assy manual so it
>does not apply to the body type - the shifter was hacked and bolted with
>the wrong cable but now I wish to do it right....Any help ???
>TH400 - 2 door hard top...
>
could "A" and "B" mean TH400 and Jetaway?

The 3 speed might need the shifter a little farther forward

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 20:33:02 -0500
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: Pics of my Car

Brent,
looks like you did it right, waiting for the finished product. are those
bullet holes in the rear? what do you do for a living/ just kidding, keep
up the good work.
Lou Biggs
lbiggs@intertek.net
- ----------
> From: TheBlue67@aol.com
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Pics of my Car
> Date: Thursday, October 22, 1998 8:17 PM
>
>     Well, i got some pics of my 67 cutlass convertible up. they consist
of the
> original condition of the car and pics of the car in the body shop. the
car is
> totally painted now eventhough i dont have pics of it painted they will
be
> comming soon. so until then enjoy this little page:
>
> http://members.aol.com/TheBlue67/main.html
>
> <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/TheBlue67/main.html">Aol members click
here
> </A>
>
> Brent
> 1967 Cutlass Convertible

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 22:00:54 EDT
From: TheBlue67@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pics of my Car

In a message dated 98-10-22 21:35:08 EDT, you write:

<< Brent,
 looks like you did it right, waiting for the finished product. are those
 bullet holes in the rear? what do you do for a living/ just kidding, keep
 up the good work.
 Lou Biggs
 lbiggs@intertek.net >>


Worse than bullet holes..... those are rust holes. about what i do for a
living, i am a sophmore at stow-monroe falls high school in stow ohio. my dad
is finacing the whole deal. i just have to opay for insurance and what ever
other extras i want to put on the car. i.e. repro 14x7 all chrome ss1's that
will be put on the car in the spring and hopefully a posi and ralley pac in
the future.

Brent
1967 Cutlass Convertible
http://members.aol.com/TheBlue67/main.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 22:03:52 EDT
From: OldsGuyGA@aol.com
Subject: Re: Olds Ads

what's this about 66 toro and 98 convert  peter....

will try and get n'letter out next week     jeff...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 22:34:55 EDT
From: KS7RACING@aol.com
Subject: Re: Daytona under the lights, 8:00

Ron,

Thanks for pointing that out (crashes being the last thing on a fan's/driver's
mind), so many times here in Kansas City the only times the local stick-and-
ball yappers (sportscasters) mention racing is when someone gets hurt.  For
teams like us, out there looking for people to sponsor our racing efforts,
lack of media exposure is a big problem.

Take Care,
Ken Snyder
Kansas City, Kansas
ks7racing@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 22:30:14 -0400
From: "Thomas P. Smith" <smithtp@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Other four barrels don't work and vaccuume is low (long)

> >  Q-jets do not use vacuum operated secondaries.  They
> >are mechanical, with an air valve above that's operated by air flow rate,
> >not vacuum.
>
> Clarification, please. On ~my~ Q-Jet, the secondary air plates are held
> closed by a vacuum diaphram. At WOT, vacuum drops, the diaphram releases,
> allowing the rear air valves to be pulled open by air flowing thru the
> secondary throttle bores. The throttle shafts are connected by spring loaded
> mechanical linkage, but the secondary air plates are definitely vacuum
> operated (more correctly, "lack-o-vacuum" operated).
>
> Isn't this the case with all Q-Jets?

        No, some very early Q-jets used a small damping piston in the air horn
that extended into the main body to dampen the air valve opening, which reduced
oscillations when the air valve opened.  It was soon abandoned for the simple
dual purpose vacuum diaphragm that served both as the choke pull-off (vacuum
break) and air valve damper.  True, without a decrease in vacuum, the air valve
will be held shut, so your point about vacuum playing a part in overall
secondary operation is well taken. But technically, the diaphragm is there to
control valve oscillations and prevent secondary operation when the car is just
"goosed" momentarily.  Another linkage, the secondary lockout, which is either
at the secondary throttle itself or at the air valve, prevents secondary
operation when the engine is cold (choke not fully open).
        Now, if the vacuum break diaphragm has a hole in it, it will neither
perform its choke pull-off function, nor it's secondary air-valve damping
function, and may give a nasty little vacuum leak.  To ensure it works, just 
see
where the shaft sits when the engine is off, start the engine and see if it
retracts.  If it doesn't retract fully, it has a leak and must be replaced.
- --
Thomas P. Smith
1971 Cutlass S 350
smithtp@ix.netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 22:50:08 -0400
From: Don Sowers <dstaxpro@lex.infi.net>
Subject: Re: car book

Lou Biggs wrote:
>
> To all,
> Bought dad a book on old cars, years ago, called Encyclopedia of American
> cars, 1946 to 1959. dad's gone, have the book back.

I have the same book I think, except mine is from 1930-1990.  And, yes,
this one my father gave me.  Probably on of the nicest gifts I've ever
gotten.  Sorry to hear about your father.  Thankfully my dad is still
relatively young and in reasonably good health.  We sit around from time
to time talking about the old muscle cars.  Miss that part of the good
ole days.  Other parts of it I can do without.  Good part about the
current times is I now have 3 Cutlasses from 1969-72 and the Hurst.  I
guess getting older does have its good points, although I can't think of
too many.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 23:06:46 EDT
From: KS7RACING@aol.com
Subject: Fwd: 1977 Olds Delta 88 pace car

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- --part0_909112006_boundary
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Recieved this personally - does anyone know about these and possibly help this
gent out?

Reply to: rhayden@mtnhome.com

Thanks, and Take Care!
Ken Snyder
Kansas City, Kansas
ks7racing@aol.com

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From: "Ron Hayden" <rhayden@mtnhome.com>
To: <ks7racing@aol.com>
Subject: re: 1977 Olds Delta 88 pace car
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:32:49 -0500
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Dear Sir,

I am looking for the official decals and stripes that were on the 1977 Old=
s
Delta 88 pace car.  I would appreciate it if you could help me in this
matter.  Please e-mail me at
rhayden@mtnhome.com

Sincerely,

Robert Brumbaugh


- --part0_909112006_boundary--

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 22:17:49 -0500
From: Brian Ammons <b_ammons@mail.utexas.edu>
Subject: TherMac Mk II

Since I received an OVERWHELMING response on vaccuum diagrams, I guess I'll
just ask one question at a time.

1984 Delta 307.  We are talking about the TherMac.  There are two vaccuum
hoses.  One runs from the TherMac to the temp sensor in the air cleaner.
The other runs from the temp sensor to ?????????????.

Where DOES it run to?  I've heard "on the carb", and that very well may be
true, but WHERE ON THE CARB EXACTLY?

Does anyone else have one to look at and tell me in detail?

Thanks,
- -------------------------------------------------------------
 Brian Ammons		 Universal Internet # (ICQ) - 3585737
 MIS Major - UT Austin	 b_ammons@mail.utexas.edu
 2903 Breeze Terrace	 http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~ammons/
 Austin, TX 78722	Home :	(512) 236-8088 (Austin)
 1984 Oldsmobile		(713) 776-2110 (Houston)
	Delta 88	Pager:	(512) 483-8056
 	  4-door		(713) 318-5938	
- -------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 20:10:45 -0700
From: mmborden@m9.sprynet.com
Subject: Re: O/D Transmissions

My apologies for not being clear.. I meant for the 4L80 Trans... will all
makes/manufactures bolt up to my 455.
Thanks...ldb

On Thu, 22 Oct 1998, Matt Cremean <creme1ma@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu> wrote:
>mmborden@m9.sprynet.com wrote:
>>
>> What car/brand typically used that trans??
>> Thanks... ldb
>
>Strait from the FAQ"
>
>TH-200-R4 ID's:
>ID     Year(s)  Application
>KZF **              Olds 442/Hurst
>CZF **              Monte SS
>BRF **              GN/T-Type/Turbo Regals
>OZ **               Hurst Olds
>OM                  Olds 350 Diesels
>OG                  Olds 307
>BY                  V-6 252 Cars
>AA and AP           Cadillac's
>
>Transmissions marked "**" have a special (better for performance) valve
>body, plate, 1-2 servo, 3-4 servo, 2-3 intermediate servo, and governor.
>
>--
>*************
>Matt Cremean
>mailto:creme1ma@cmich.edu
>+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
>1975 Cutlass S Hardtop Coupe (250 L-6 1bbl) "parts car"
>1973 Cutlass Supreme Hardtop Coupe (350 V-8 4bbl) "The Oldsmoslow"
>1970 Cutlass S Holiday Coupe (350 V-8 2bbl) "The Unit"
>1983 Ch*vrolet C*price (305 V-8 4bbl) "The Blue Taxi"
>+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
>http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/
>**************************************************
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 23:31:10 -0400
From: "Chris Brown" <Elric@dclink.com>
Subject: Heating/AC

I just came on the list and this is my second posting in 24 hours, I think
there will probably be many more than this, because I am getting into the
fine points that I dont quite understand.

I am trying to get my heater to work properly, but the levers that work the
vents and the hot cold so not do the job they are supposed to do, I noticed
a whole plate of vaccuum spaghetti under the dash hooked to these, but they
all seam to be intact, is there supposed to be a line running from the
engine to the firewall, and where on the firewall is it supposed to go to?
Any vaccuum diagrams that I have do not show this, and the only place I know
of that supplys enough vaccuum to necessitate lines is the motor.

Chris Brown
72 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 22:45:43 -0500
From: bloom@mail.gorilla.net
Subject: Re: Pics of my Car

Brent, the car looks like it's going to come out great! Your Dad is one
great guy. I wonder, what are
your plans for the bumpers? On one of my Cutlass' I'm thinking of having
them powder coated the same
color as the body paint.
At 09:17 PM 10/22/98 EDT, you wrote:
>    Well, i got some pics of my 67 cutlass convertible up. they consist of
the
>original condition of the car and pics of the car in the body shop. the
car is
>totally painted now eventhough i dont have pics of it painted they will be
>comming soon. so until then enjoy this little page:
>
>http://members.aol.com/TheBlue67/main.html
>
><A HREF="http://members.aol.com/TheBlue67/main.html">Aol members click here
></A>
>
>Brent
>1967 Cutlass Convertible
>
>
Fred K. (bloom@gorilla.net)
Tulsa,OK. area
'67 442
'67 Cutlass S
'67 Cutlass
		44   44  44   44  222222
		44   44  44   44   2  2
		4444444  4444444   2  2
		     44       44   2  2
		     44       44  222222
	

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 23:21:27 -0400
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: Ticka Ticka (was somethin else)

Are all pushrods for a given motor available in one length only, or can
they be had in different lengths? Never heard this discussed here, aside
from talk about adjustable ones a while back...
_________

No, custom lengths are available from sources like Mondello, Dave Smith,
Miller, etc to account for reduced base circle cams, valve train geometry,
etc.  In addition, since pushrods are just steel tubes with ends pressed
in, you can buy just the tubing and the ends and assemble your own at
whatever length you need.  Powerhouse Performance, for example, sells a
pushrod assembly tool for $99.95.

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 23:13:26 -0400
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: Other four barrels don't work and vaccuume is low (long)

...On ~my~ Q-Jet, the secondary air plates are held
closed by a vacuum diaphram. At WOT, vacuum drops, the diaphram releases,
allowing the rear air valves to be pulled open by air flowing thru the
secondary throttle bores. The throttle shafts are connected by spring
loaded
mechanical linkage, but the secondary air plates are definitely vacuum
operated (more correctly, "lack-o-vacuum" operated).
____________

Actually, that's the air valve dashpot, which serves primarily to prevent
or delay the secondaries from opening under light engine loads.  The actual
rate of air valve opening is governed by the air valve wrap spring.  I
quote from the Roe Q-jet book:

"1967 and later Q-jets have an air valve dash pot operated off the choke
vacuum diaphragm unit.  The air valve is connected to the vacuum break by a
rod.  Whenever manifold vacuum is above approximately five to six inches
Hg, the vacuum break diaphragm is seated...and the air valve is closed.

During acceleration or heavy engine loads when the secondary throttle
valves are opened, the manifold vacuum drops.  A spring in the vacuum break
diaphragm overcomes the vacuum pull and forces the plunger and link
outward, permitting the air valve to open when the combination of
depression under the air valve and velocity through it combine to force the
air valve open against the tension of its torsion spring."

Now, Roe does go on to point out that the a calibrated orifice in the inlet
to the vacuum diaphragm controls the rate at which the diaphragm releases
and thus can control air valve opening rate also.  Dave brings up a good
point, and this diaphragm does often go bad, which can obviously allow the
air valves to open too soon.

I stand by my original comment, however, that idle vacuum level has no
effect on the operation of the secondaries or the air valve.

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 22:17:41 -0600
From: "Igor T. '81 455DRB" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Re: TherMac Mk II

>1984 Delta 307.  We are talking about the TherMac.  There are two vaccuum
>hoses.  One runs from the TherMac to the temp sensor in the air cleaner.
>The other runs from the temp sensor to ?????????????.
>
>Where DOES it run to?  I've heard "on the carb", and that very well may be
>true, but WHERE ON THE CARB EXACTLY?


OKAY.  Just went out to look at my '81 307 Carb on the shelf in the garage.
KEEP IN MIND that this may vary from year to year.  My '76 emissions carb is
different from my '81 which is of course different from my current '70
non-emissions.  That hose hooks up to the port on the right side of your
carburetor.  That is look at where your fuel pipe comes in (middle of
front).  To the right of it (drivers side) should be a port to hook up a
vacuum hose.  As I recall on my '81 307, there was a lot of shit hooked-up
to that port.  Unless the spliter is already there, you will have to t it
off.  If you have something else hooked up there, then get a T-split and
hook up both.  On my '76 455 carb, the air-cleaner hooks up on the left
port, so go figure.  Try the right first, cause on the '81 307 carb
(probable closer to yours), the left is used for distributor, and I don't
think you should mess with that.  Try the right, then tell me.  When you
hook-it-up, fire it up (cold) and look.  The Thermac plate should stay
closed unless you floor the pedal.  When it warms up (really warms up) it
should open.  Hook it up, if it works drive for 15 mins., then open the hood
(while it runs) and look.  If it is still closed, push the throttle 1/4 down
and look, if still closed, no good.  Let me know.  Igor.

igor455@home.com

Igor Todorovic, UofC, Calgary, Alberta
1981 Delta 88 4dr (455/th400/3.23s)
1981 Regency 98 (307/2004r/propane)
1981 Dodge MaxiVan (360/727/4.10s)

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #1566
*********************************
