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Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #1609


oldsmobile-digest    Wednesday, November 18 1998    Volume 01 : Number 1609



RE: ?
Olds Ads Web Page
Re: ?
Re: 455 in a truck
Distributor Vacuum Switch
Re: 455 in a truck
RE: SB/BB Head ID
Re: 455 in a truck
Re: thanks dave, ...and another question inside.
Re: SB/BB Head ID
Re: How to score a Q-jet while Yarde-ing
RE: SB/BB Head ID
66 F-85 For Sale
Parts 4 Sale
Re: 75 350 mods
Re: Craftsman tools 
Re: Craftsman tools
Re: SB/BB Head ID
carburetor trade
Re: 75 350 mods
Re: Olds Ads Web Page
RE: 75 350 mods
Re: Craftsman tools
86 cutlass + 455 = wholly cow !!!           [ WAS RE: SB/BB Head ID ]
Re: Front Clip (was RE: Parts Question)
Re: Is this a Good Story or a Sad Story?
Re: 86 cutlass + 455 = wholly cow !!!           [ WAS RE: SB/BB Head ID ]
Re: SB/BB Head ID
Re: 75 350 mods
Re: Is this a Good Story or a Sad Story?
Re: 86 cutlass + 455 = wholly cow !!!           [ WAS RE: SB/BB Head ID ]
Re: SB/BB Head ID
Re: 86 cutlass + 455 = wholly cow !!!
Re: 86 cutlass + 455 = wholly cow !!!           [ WAS RE: SB/BB Head ID ]
Re: SB/BB Head ID
Re: 86 cutlass + 455 = wholly cow !!! 
Re: 86 cutlass + 455 = wholly cow !!!           [ WAS RE: SB/BB Head ID ]
Re: 86 cutlass + 455 = wholly cow !!!
Re: 86 cutlass + 455 = wholly cow !!!
Re: Front Clip (was RE: Parts Question)
Brass: Good or Bad?
Cryogenic Bearings
Re: Cryogenic Bearings
am/fm radio

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 17:41:46 -0800
From: Chris Fair <cfair@FairIsaac.com>
Subject: RE: ?

Structurally, your Delmont is a big olds. This means it shares many
components with it's brother 88 cars and many mechanical components with
other 88's and 98's. In 67 they changed the dash from what it had been in
the 65-66 years. They went to a padded dash as opposed to the chrome style
used in 65-66. The engines were the same ol. 425 with
a quadrajet that they had in 66 and I think they used the switch pitch
TH-400. All the 88's from what I know were differentiated by trim level. In
the 65-66 years the low end was 
Dynamic, the high end was the Delta and I think there was one in between,
but I can't recall. In 67, I think the Delmont was that in betweener, but I
could be wrong on that.

67 was the first year for a dual hydraulic circuit drum brake system -- much
safer than the 66 one circuit system. I think discs were available in 67 at
extra cost, but these were the 4 piston type, discontinued for a simpler
single piston system from say 1969 onward. 

The 425 shares many components with the 455 and 400. Look at the performance
and restoration suppliers in the FAQ for rebuilding and modification parts
suppliers. Not too hard to find these guys, though they're way, way less
common than the Ch*vy parts suppliers. 

Welcome to Oldsmoland! Much info here from people smarter than me. Have a
great time. 

cf

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bassman215@aol.com [mailto:Bassman215@aol.com]
> Sent: Monday, November 16, 1998 5:23 PM
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: ?
> 
> 
> I have a 67 Olds Delmont 88 and I can't find any info on it 
> at all.  The
> little bit of info I have found is good, but there just isn't 
> very much of it.
> If anyone can lead me to some web sites books or anything 
> with history about
> the car or anything else about it I would appreciate it.  
> Also I would like
> some info on parts dealers that have engine parts for the 425 
> big block.
> Thanks for your time.
> 
> God Bless,
>     Casey
> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 21:47:39 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Olds Ads Web Page

I don't know if this page belongs to someone here, but I stumbled on it
the other day and would recommend it. It has excellent scans of Olds ads
from '69 up to the early '90s. Most of them are for full-sizers. The
address is:

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/6603/gallery/oldsads.html

I also got a little creative. I noticed that many of the ads are actually
on a fortunecity web page. If you remove the file name of the ad from the
fortunecity URL, you find a page showing how a bench seat in an Intrigue
would look, along with a nice mockup of an Intrigue coupe. They need to
make this car... imagine how it would look as a NASCAR stcoker! 

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 20:56:33 -0500
From: "Frederick Nissen" <FSNissen@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: ?

Chris Fair

Wrote:


>the 65-66 years the low end was
>Dynamic, the high end was the Delta and I think there was one in between,
>but I can't recall.

In '65-'66 the low end was the Jetstar 88 powered by the F85 series 330
engine and usually equipped  with the jetaway 2 speed auto.
Dynamic was mid line, Delta was on top (not counting the Starfire or '65
Jetstar I  which shared many 88 body pieces, but had a unique roof line and
backlight.)

>In 67, I think the Delmont was that in betweener, but I
>could be wrong on that.


In '67 the Delmont was the low line car, Delta was mid level and the top of
the line was the Delta Custom.  This had wide side trim like  that of the
now departed Starfire, but was available as a hardtop sedan as well as a
coupe.  Deltas and Delta Customs were all 425 powered.   Delmonts could come
with either the 330 or 425.

>I think discs were available in 67 at
>extra cost, but these were the 4 piston type, discontinued for a simpler
>single piston system from say

1968 onward

Regards,
Fred

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 20:58:12 EST
From: DYeager535@aol.com
Subject: Re: 455 in a truck

In a message dated 11/17/98 5:26:50 PM Pacific Standard Time, tlentz@ior.com
writes:

<< Anyhow, it's a '78 diesel truck that's been converted.  The diesel was
 an Olds block, so the swap is pretty simple.  They come with TH400
 trannies with a BOP pattern already because a diesel engine doesn't make
 vacuum to run the vacuum modulator on a TH350.
  >>

     So how do they run the vacuum modulator on the diesel with the TH400?
never thought of that before.. Dorian

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 21:04:13 EST
From: ChazToone@aol.com
Subject: Distributor Vacuum Switch

I am looked to replace the Distributor Vacuum Switch on my 1971 Cutlass
Supreme Convertible.  The car has a 350 4-bbl with A/C, and is very original.
This is the gizmo that screws into the left front of the intake manifold with
4 vacuum hoses and an electrical connector on top.  The switch that's in there
is broken where the electrical connector plugs in and the vacuum lines have
been bypassed by the previous owner.  The car runs great for high mileage
(169K) so I doubt there will be any performance improvement, but really just
want it to look right.  Any experience's with this part and offers to sell
will be appreciated.

 Charlie Toone
ChazToone@aol.com

1971 Cutlass Supreme
1966 F-85 Hardtop (R.I.P.)
1972 H/O w/moonroof (Rust I.P.)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 19:08:42 -0700
From: Ben <olds442@primenet.com>
Subject: Re: 455 in a truck

>

I think it was a type-o... The TH-400 uses the vaccum modulator and a sensing
switch on the gas pedal for the kick down, WOT, passing gear, and down shifts.
The TH-350 uses a standard TV cable assembly. Unless I have a TH-350 with a
TH-400 pan, but I don't think so...

Ben
* Getting DESPEARTE with the 62, Price is as low as I can go at 1200!!!! check
out the site. http://www.primenet.com/~olds442/forsale.html
* Gotta sell my C heads still. Recent Valve job, roller tipped rockers, most
sought after heads... $400 takes them (price includes shipping cost.

> << Anyhow, it's a '78 diesel truck that's been converted.  The diesel was an
> Olds block, so the swap is pretty simple.  They come with TH400 trannies with
> a BOP pattern already because a diesel engine doesn't make vacuum to run the
> vacuum modulator on a TH350.
>   >>
>      So how do they run the vacuum modulator on the diesel with the TH400?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 21:21:05 -0500
From: "Arnold, W D" <w.d.arnold@lmco.com>
Subject: RE: SB/BB Head ID

Dorian,
Don't use those heads !!!  The CR would be very low and the intake ports are
ALOT bigger than a typical intake can handle.
 
>    6    409 100     
>         09100G    I looked in the FAQ, and a number (the 6) denotes SB,
> correct?? 
> 
These numbers are BB heads # G or Ga from a 71 455. Found on 442.com head
section.

If the heads were the #6 SB head, your CR would be 9.5-9.8 :1.  That's still
okay for pump gas and daily driving.  The CR rule of thumb for street
driving is about 10:1.

Mine is about 10.50 (68 455 with shaved 'B' heads) and I have always ran 93
octane gas without any trouble.  BUT, I did have to decrease timing about 2
deg to keep it from pinging under heavy loads ( foot on the floor!!)

  What did the man mean by:
  
> ..my heads are pretty
> rough..lots to fix them up..
> 
Most folks that are not 'into' OLDS can't tell what is BB or SB.  Since all
olds heads are bigger than che@#y, alot of people prob. think that they have
to be BB.

Donny

> However, the other numbers are not listed in the FAQ. If he gave me
> the correct numbers, what would these heads be expected to do on my .60
> over
> 403? I still want the daily driver, as long as it isn't over 9.0 to 1 CR I
> don't care. Any help from any of you Olds Geniuses would be appreciated!
> Dorian
> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 21:20:37 EST
From: DYeager535@aol.com
Subject: Re: 455 in a truck

In a message dated 11/17/98 6:12:54 PM Pacific Standard Time,
olds442@primenet.com writes:

<< I think it was a type-o... The TH-400 uses the vaccum modulator and a
sensing
 switch on the gas pedal for the kick down, WOT, passing gear, and down
shifts.
 The TH-350 uses a standard TV cable assembly. Unless I have a TH-350 with a
 TH-400 pan, but I don't think so...
  >>

      But the 350's use a modulator too...not that I know what they do besides
modulate line pressure (I think) depending on engine load, determined by
vacuum.  Dorian

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 21:22:50 -0500
From: Rebel1 <rebel1@raex.com>
Subject: Re: thanks dave, ...and another question inside.

Is the oil filler in the front of the block (between the water pump and the
intake)?  - Olds motor - If not, does it look like it is completely hollow
between the intake runners and the top of the lifter valley? - Pontiac
motor
Just some additional info....
Todd Daenzer
'69 rag top - 310hp tied to a 'glide :-(
'75 Supreme - project car....
'82 Supreme - SB, 700R4, 3.73's - Grin!
'86 Supreme - V-8 - daily driver...

Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM wrote:

> ...and behind the water pump, the manifold valley, isnt flat, but it is
> like a depression...
> __________
>
> Definitely not an Olds; sounds like a Pontiac motor from the valley
> description.  Unfortunately, you've now reached the limit of my Pontiac
> experience.
>
> Joe Padavano
> padavano.joe@orbital.com
>
> 66 442
> 68 W-30
> 69 H/O
> 69 442
> 70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 21:26:23 EST
From: DYeager535@aol.com
Subject: Re: SB/BB Head ID

In a message dated 11/17/98 6:21:57 PM Pacific Standard Time,
w.d.arnold@lmco.com writes:

<<  What did the man mean by:
   
 > ..my heads are pretty
 > rough..lots to fix them up..
 > 
 Most folks that are not 'into' OLDS can't tell what is BB or SB.  Since all
 olds heads are bigger than che@#y, alot of people prob. think that they have
 to be BB. >>

     Donny, he said they need to be milled, new guides, all new exhaust
valves, and to top it off, I bought new valve springs too.  Oh yeah, and i
need all new rocker arms and the "bridges" that go on them.   Dorian

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:35:02 -0800
From: "John Young" <realtorjohn@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: How to score a Q-jet while Yarde-ing

I had a 3/4 ton Burb with a q-jet 1986, I think they went FI tbi in 88.
realtorjohn@sprynet.com
69 442 W-32

- ----------
> 
>     Not so. They used them all the way up to FI. They had to. The trucks
had
> the 5.7 as an option up until the body style change (1987 or 91,
depending on
> which "truck") My '83 305 has a Quad, and my friends '83 350 has a carb,
no
> computer (at least for the carb) though. I bet '84 or so and up trucks
have
> the computer controlled Quadrajets
>                                                                          
 Dor
> ian

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 22:03:06 -0500
From: "Arnold, W D" <w.d.arnold@lmco.com>
Subject: RE: SB/BB Head ID

> ----------
> From: 	w.d.arnold@lmco.com (donny)
> Reply To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Sent: 	Tuesday, November 17, 1998 9:26 PM
> To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: 	Re: SB/BB Head ID
> 
> Okay folks,
> I HAVE to correct myself since none of y'all caught it yet.
> I replied to Dorian with this:
> 
> The CR would be very low and the intake ports are
> ALOT bigger than a typical intake can handle
> 
> In fact the CR would be almost the exact same since 403 heads are 83cc's
> and most BB heads are 80cc's.
> Sorry, but I'll admit when I'm wrong and I was wrong..
> 
> 
> 
>   Donny, he said they need to be milled, new guides, all new exhaust
> valves, and to top it off, I bought new valve springs too.  Oh yeah, and i
> need all new rocker arms and the "bridges" that go on them.   Dorian
> 
> That's a tough call..  At least you have a machinist that does it the
> right way and pays attention to details(specs).  Most of the ones I have
> dealt with in the past say " oh, I'll just knurl the guides and they be as
> good as new."  NOT on my heads big boy.  The guides should never ever be
> knurled.  Knurled guides allow oil to pass through and the knurled guide's
> life is about 1/2 as long as new guides.
> 
> Start looking for some #7a heads to build up. Those work GREAT on a 403.
> Since you have a good man doing your work, ask him if there would be any
> problems using the 70cc heads.
> 
> If he don't know, or you can tell that he's making up an answer to tell
> you, then call Joe Mondello's tech line and he WILL tell you the right way
> to do it.
> 
> Good luck,
> Donny
>  
> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 21:55:01 -0800
From: Toby Blom <floridarealtor@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: 66 F-85 For Sale

Hello all

My wife tells me that for us to get a bigger house, I need to sell some
cars...

66 F-85 2 dr Sedan, 330 orig. 2 barrel, but with olds intake and holley
650 carb (have orig. intake & carb), HEI distributor, jetaway
transmission, new PST front end, new springs around, new KYB shocks
around, completely replaced floor and trunk (all parts from Year One),
New Dunlop GT Qualifiers (245-60-15 front, 275-60-15 rear) on new Cragar
keystone klassic rims ( 7" front, 8" rear) late model highback bucket
seats, new black carpet/underlay. Colum shift, have factory AC, but
compressor not mounted. Needs dash pad and windshield (got hit by golf
ball..... living on a golf course sucks!) comes with black glove
compartment door (mint). Asking $3900
I'm located in Ft.Lauderdale, FL

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 22:13:37 EST
From: TheBlue67@aol.com
Subject: Parts 4 Sale

Parting complete 69 cutlass 4-door. many good usable parts. body is decent,
interior shot. mail me privately if you can use anything off the car.

Set of 4 SS1 14x6 wheels. they are in nice condition. 3 are sandblasted and
need the black part painted on. other is in decient shape. $$$$ make me a
offer.

1" fenillic spacer plate. for a 4bbl Q-Jet. never been used. $40

Parts:
1964-67
65 cutlass hood $100
65 cutlass trunklid $100
65 cutlass convertible 6 piece stainless steel trim set. $250
64-65 power trunk release. complete $150

1968-69
set of 5 SSll trim rings. real nice $75
consle. o.k.  $50 obo
carpet, lite saddle, brand new $100
carpet, dark saddle, 2 months old $75

1970
442 grills, mint. $200
442 bumper in primer $125
consle $125
Tilt column. floor shift $150
decklid $75
carpet, lite saddle, brand new $100
carpet, dark saddle, 2 months old $75

1971-72
consle $125
Tilt column. floor shift $150
decklid $75
sport mirror, driver remote $40
72 rear lenses $15 a pair
carpet, lite saddle, brand new $100
carpet, dark saddle, 2 months old $75

no prices include shipping. depends on the item you are buying wether or not
you will have to pay shipping. Located in the Cleveland Ohio area. E-mail me
privately if you have any questions on anything. TheBlue67@Aol.com

Brent
1967 Cutlass Convertible (freshly painted and now being reasmebled)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 14:23:42 -0800
From: Bob Blanchard <bob149@uswest.net>
Subject: Re: 75 350 mods

> I was also wondering if #10 heads from a 260 would bolt up to my
>engine. And if so would anyone have a pair of these heads available for
>purchase? (btw i have a 350 w/#8 heads)

they will bolt up, but they have very small intake ports.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 19:35:15 -0800
From: Bob Blanchard <bob149@uswest.net>
Subject: Re: Craftsman tools 

At 06:27 PM 11/17/98 -0500, you wrote: 
>
> > that just an opinion the aviation industry uses snap on almost exclusively
> > for a reason


No. most tools used in aviation industry are Proto and Armstrong

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 20:50:48 -0700
From: Ben <olds442@primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Craftsman tools

In the Marine Corps aviation fields, we use mainly snap-on. A few other no 
name,
bill the government 50 bucks for a 2 dollar part and have it break in 20 
minutes
of use companies are used too, but primarily snap-on. Just my experience.
Ben

Bob Blanchard wrote:

> At 06:27 PM 11/17/98 -0500, you wrote:
> >
> > > that just an opinion the aviation industry uses snap on almost 
exclusively
> > > for a reason
>
> No. most tools used in aviation industry are Proto and Armstrong

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:06:07 EST
From: DYeager535@aol.com
Subject: Re: SB/BB Head ID

In a message dated 11/17/98 7:03:38 PM Pacific Standard Time,
w.d.arnold@lmco.com writes:

<< I HAVE to correct myself since none of y'all caught it yet.
 > I replied to Dorian with this:
 > 
 > The CR would be very low and the intake ports are
 > ALOT bigger than a typical intake can handle
 > 
 > In fact the CR would be almost the exact same since 403 heads are 83cc's
 > and most BB heads are 80cc's.
 > Sorry, but I'll admit when I'm wrong and I was wrong.. >>

Thanks Donny...they still won't fit though, right? So it doesn't matter : ) I
need to bore the block, and new pistons now too it looks like, but he says he
has the 455 already done, laying in pieces..hmm...455 in my 86 Cutlass...tight
fit for those that have done it? And factory manifolds work?  Dorian

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:10:24 -0500
From: "Edward Binnix" <comid@jellico.com>
Subject: carburetor trade

I have a model 3310 (750 vac. sec.) and a model 4780 (800 DP). They are both
freshly rebuilt. Mondello tells me that neither is big enough for my motor
specs. I want to trade BOTH carbs for a Holley 850-930 cfm carburetor. If
anyone's interested, please E-mail me privately.
comid@jellico.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:26:28 -0500
From: Matt Cremean <creme1ma@cmich.edu>
Subject: Re: 75 350 mods

Mark Hahn wrote:
> 
>  Hi list:
Howdy Mark
> 
[snip]
> I was thinking that as long as I am diving in this far, why not look for
> new heads also. I would like to boost the compression on this engine.
>  So I am asking if anyone would have a pair of #3 or #4 heads I could
> purchase.

Do you possibly mean #5, 6, or 7's? I believe those may be what you're
looking for.

>  I was also wondering if #10 heads from a 260 would bolt up to my
> engine. And if so would anyone have a pair of these heads available for
> purchase? (btw i have a 350 w/#8 heads)

Well, yes, but as everybody else said, that is a no-ah-ah idea.

- -- 
***********
Matt Cremean
mailto:creme1ma@cmich.edu
***************************
1973 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme (350 V-8 4 bbl)
1975 Oldsmobile Cutlass S (250 I-6 1 bbl)
1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass S (350 V-8 2 bbl)
1983 Ch*vrolet C*price (305 V-8 4 bbl)
*******************************************
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/
*******************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:31:38 -0500
From: Matt Cremean <creme1ma@cmich.edu>
Subject: Re: Olds Ads Web Page

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
> 
> I don't know if this page belongs to someone here, but I stumbled on it
> the other day and would recommend it. It has excellent scans of Olds ads
> from '69 up to the early '90s. Most of them are for full-sizers. The
> address is:
> 
> http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/6603/gallery/oldsads.html
> 

OH! I see! Skip RIGHT from '72 to '74! I see how ya are!!!

Sorry, venting steam for those of us whose numbers are and will always
be misrepresented.
- -- 
***********
Matt Cremean
mailto:creme1ma@cmich.edu
***************************
1973 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme (350 V-8 4 bbl)
1975 Oldsmobile Cutlass S (250 I-6 1 bbl)
1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass S (350 V-8 2 bbl)
1983 Ch*vrolet C*price (305 V-8 4 bbl)
*******************************************
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/
*******************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:38:52 -0500
From: "Arnold, W D" <w.d.arnold@lmco.com>
Subject: RE: 75 350 mods

Hello Mark,
I had some OLDS heads(BB) milled down 0.050" and the cc's went from 79/81
cc's to 73cc's.  That boosted my compression about a 1/3 point or so. Joe
Mondello says that most OLDS heads can be milled 0.060" with no real
problems with intake fitment.  But, you will have to use the Valley pan and
none of those aftermarket gaskets. 

If you can get a  pretty good set of  7a  heads, get them and mill them a
little to get the compression you want.  Just bolting on 7a heads is gonna
put you around 9.2-9.4 : 1 anyway.  You will notice a difference after the
swap too.  Mainly because of the better flow of #7 heads compared to #8
heads and the compression will add a little bit of power too but I doubt
you'd be able to feel that by itself.

Good luck,
Donny 

> ----------
> From: 	Matt Cremean[SMTP:creme1ma@cmich.edu]
> Reply To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Sent: 	Tuesday, November 17, 1998 11:26 PM
> To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: 	Re: 75 350 mods
> 
> Mark Hahn wrote:
> > 
> >  Hi list:
> Howdy Mark
> > 
> [snip]
> > I was thinking that as long as I am diving in this far, why not look for
> > new heads also. I would like to boost the compression on this engine.
> >  So I am asking if anyone would have a pair of #3 or #4 heads I could
> > purchase.
> 
> Do you possibly mean #5, 6, or 7's? I believe those may be what you're
> looking for.
> 
> >  I was also wondering if #10 heads from a 260 would bolt up to my
> > engine. And if so would anyone have a pair of these heads available for
> > purchase? (btw i have a 350 w/#8 heads)
> 
> Well, yes, but as everybody else said, that is a no-ah-ah idea.
> 
> -- 
> ***********
> Matt Cremean
> mailto:creme1ma@cmich.edu
> ***************************
> 1973 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme (350 V-8 4 bbl)
> 1975 Oldsmobile Cutlass S (250 I-6 1 bbl)
> 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass S (350 V-8 2 bbl)
> 1983 Ch*vrolet C*price (305 V-8 4 bbl)
> *******************************************
> http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/
> *******************************************
> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:47:33 EST
From: KS7RACING@aol.com
Subject: Re: Craftsman tools

OK ladies and gents, I can speak from experience on this one.  12 years of
commercial aircraft repair, preceded by 4 years of Marine Corps A-4 Skyhawk
avionics work.

My current tool composition (avionics specialty):

1 Master Mechanics 1/4" drive fine-toothed ratchet.
1 Powr-Kraft (JCPenny?) 1/4" drive nut driver (socket handle)
1 set of Snap-On 1/4" drive sockets from 3/16" to 9/16" in both standard and
deep models.
1 set of Snap-On 1/4" drive extensions, up to 12" long.
1 Snap-On common screwdriver (found in a parts car, go figure)
Some small Easco (?) 1/4" drive extensions, shorter than the Snap-On variety.
1 set of Craftsman ignition wrenches (anyone actually use these on ignition
systems?)
1 set of Craftsman combination wrenches, 1/4" to 1".
No-name side cutters, slip-joint pliers and duck-bill pliers (probably
imported, but they work)
Sears Volt-Ohm-Milliaml meter with job-supplied leads.

From my experience, I'm not that atypical in my approach with tool selection.
If you've got it, you use it.  Aviation mechanics aren't that different than
other mechanics, we just work on bigger craft than out automotive and truck
counterparts.  I see just as many (if not more) Craftsman boxes o'tools as I
do anything else.  The major difference I could tell would be in the air tools
- - the airframe (metal) mechanics do pay a lot for their drills, grinders and
air hammers, but they get used almost every day and for probably 6 out of the
8 hours they're on the clock.  Many of the air tools are either checked out
from the company or are repaired by the company at no cost - they're that
important.

I've torn up most every brand of tool at one time or another either at work or
at home, and I've never had trouble with returning any of them, including True
Value Master Mechanics brand.  Sometimes I think it's the operator of the
tools and not the tool itself that's the problem around here.........:-)

Anyway, gotta go and get to sleep.  Tearing into another 767 overhaul
tomorrow.

Take Care,
Ken Snyder
Kansas City, Kansas
ks7racing@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:57:04 -0500
From: "Arnold, W D" <w.d.arnold@lmco.com>
Subject: 86 cutlass + 455 = wholly cow !!!           [ WAS RE: SB/BB Head ID ]

Now we're getting somewhere !!!!!!
My next door neighbor did in one weekend. Out with the 307 and in with the
455. Whoa,  what a ride!!!
It looked tight on the AC box.  He said he had to put the valve cover on
before he put the motor in.

I believe it was an 83 or so.  Is there any difference in the engine
compartments?

GO FOR IT MAN !!!!!
Get the cubes...
It ain't gonna cost you any more money, right?

  
Donny

> ----------
> but he says he
> has the 455 already done, laying in pieces..hmm...455 in my 86
> Cutlass...tight
> fit for those that have done it? And factory manifolds work?  Dorian
> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 22:09:01 -0700
From: Oldsmagnet <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Re: Front Clip (was RE: Parts Question)

> Whenever I refer to a front clip, I mean the sheetmetal in front of the
> fenders.

I've learned here that some refer to the front clip as the "doghouse."  The
front clip, essentially, is the entire assembly of fenders, hood, radiator
support, and front header panel.  Bumper and frame items are not considerred
here, while inner fender wells usually are, but not required on some.....  :) 
The frontal area (the straight line thing mentioned) is referred to the header
panel, which includes headlights, grilles, and whatever trimwork may be
involved.

Clearer?  ;)
- -- 
Oldsmagnet - Charley Buehner @ Sidney Montana |\      |-------|   
mailto:buehner@lyrea.com To mail direct to me |/\|=|  |   |   |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner See my homepage |\ |=|  |   |   |
http://members.tripod.com/~Oldsmagnet Mine too|<||=|  |   |   |
     "I SEEK YOU!"  ICQ # 20418760            |/ |=|  |  / \  |
http://cyberglyphs.com/gbody/ G-Body ListHome |\/|=|  | / | \ |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner/listfaq.htm     |/      |___|___|

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 00:12:40 EST
From: Sprotten25@aol.com
Subject: Re: Is this a Good Story or a Sad Story?

Maybe he really wished it was an olds:-))

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 00:24:01 -0500
From: "Gib Loudon" <loud5269@kettering.edu>
Subject: Re: 86 cutlass + 455 = wholly cow !!!           [ WAS RE: SB/BB Head 
ID ]

We took the 72 W-30 455 engine that I found in my brother's 80 cutlass
supreme brougham....yes....tight fit...had to put passenger valve cover on
before dropping in the engine......if you want pictures, email me back and
I'll send them.  They'll be on my site in a couple of weeks.

Gib.
Cutlass Net
http://www.cutlass.net
loud5269@kettering.edu
cutlass@mill.tds.net


Out with the 307 and in with the
>455. Whoa,  what a ride!!!
>It looked tight on the AC box.  He said he had to put the valve cover on
before he put the motor in.  I believe it was an 83 or so.  Is there any
difference in the engine compartments?

>>hmm......455 in my 86
>> Cutlass...tight
>> fit for those that have done it? And factory manifolds work?  Dorian
>>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 22:15:11 -0700
From: "Igor T. '81 DRB 455" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Re: SB/BB Head ID

Build a 403 with 7a heads or 5 heads if you can find them.  Or if you are
willing, build a 455.  In either case, bore the block, install forged
pistons, grind the crank and all that.  More money up front but
better/stronger/longer living motor.  My friend is thinking of 403 in his
'86 cutlass.  I have a spare 455 that I would be willing to sell to him
only, but he wants 403 so that he can run headers he can afford.  I think
that the 403 would work great.

Igor Todorovic

1981 Delta 88 4dr (455/th400/3.23s)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 22:09:18 -0700
From: "Igor T. '81 DRB 455" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Re: 75 350 mods

If I were you I would look for 7a heads.  I think that they are easier to
find, will do the job great and I believe come with hardened exhaust seats.
Consider a new cam if you go this far.  Other then engine, your other mods
should include dual 2.5" exhaust and good mufflers (like Dynomax Super
Turbo, quiet but good flowing).  Headers would also be a best upgrade.
Another important thing for the big Delta is a set of 3.08 or 3.23 gears.  I
had a '76 Delta 88 (with a 455, quess where my '81 Delta's 455 came form
:-(.  The '76 body was totally gone. Motor needed a rebuild, so I pulled the
drivetrain and junked the car.

So, for a decent budget:

7a heads, mill if you can afford
headers, dual exhaust
cam (if you are willing to go that far)
then gears and if you have money/will
this big 88 will fly after all this work

Igor Todorovic

1981 Delta 88 4dr (455/th400/3.23s)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 22:18:08 -0700
From: "Igor T. '81 DRB 455" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Re: Is this a Good Story or a Sad Story?

Totally true that the SB Chevy is by far the cheapest motor to build.  I
just like my Oldses better, that is all.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 01:14:31 EST
From: DYeager535@aol.com
Subject: Re: 86 cutlass + 455 = wholly cow !!!           [ WAS RE: SB/BB Head 
ID ]

In a message dated 11/17/98 8:57:36 PM Pacific Standard Time,
w.d.arnold@lmco.com writes:

<< Now we're getting somewhere !!!!!!
 My next door neighbor did in one weekend. Out with the 307 and in with the
 455. Whoa,  what a ride!!!
 It looked tight on the AC box.  He said he had to put the valve cover on
 before he put the motor in.
 
 I believe it was an 83 or so.  Is there any difference in the engine
 compartments?
 
 GO FOR IT MAN !!!!!
 Get the cubes...
 It ain't gonna cost you any more money, right? >>

     Well, don't know about the money thing yet..if it doesn't have
intake/exhaust maniolds (the small block WON'T fit correct?) , there is more
money, not to mention if the accessory brackets are different....I have to
find out what he wants for it first..or try and find some .60 over pistons for
that 403...can't go smaller cube-wise after the 403, but I can go bigger!
Pulling out the engine to change valve cover though? (nice to have one without
AC in this situation huh?)  Yikes. Not really worried about the fit, I'm sure
it will..just the money necessary to do it..already had the 403 budgeted..but
now that it needs new pistons.....    
                                  Dorian

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 01:16:12 EST
From: DYeager535@aol.com
Subject: Re: SB/BB Head ID

In a message dated 11/17/98 9:45:54 PM Pacific Standard Time, igor455@home.com
writes:

<< Build a 403 with 7a heads or 5 heads if you can find them.  Or if you are
 willing, build a 455.  In either case, bore the block, install forged
 pistons, grind the crank and all that.  More money up front but
 better/stronger/longer living motor.  My friend is thinking of 403 in his
 '86 cutlass.  I have a spare 455 that I would be willing to sell to him
 only, but he wants 403 so that he can run headers he can afford.  I think
 that the 403 would work great.
 
 Igor Todorovic >>

     What kind of mileage you get Igor? Just curious. My 10/18 wasn't too bad
I thought with the 403. Dorian

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:31:55 -0700
From: Oldsmagnet <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Re: 86 cutlass + 455 = wholly cow !!!

>  My next door neighbor did in one weekend. Out with the 307 and in with the
>  455. Whoa,  what a ride!!!

So did I.  See some of the details that I've finally compiled here:
http://members.tripod.com/~Oldsmagnet/bbswap.htm

This will cover 78-88 Olds G-bodies.  (Other G's as well, but Olds lower mounts
will have to be put in.....)

- -- 
Oldsmagnet - Charley Buehner @ Sidney Montana |\      |-------|   
mailto:buehner@lyrea.com To mail direct to me |/\|=|  |   |   |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner See my homepage |\ |=|  |   |   |
http://members.tripod.com/~Oldsmagnet Mine too|<||=|  |   |   |
     "I SEEK YOU!"  ICQ # 20418760            |/ |=|  |  / \  |
http://cyberglyphs.com/gbody/ G-Body ListHome |\/|=|  | / | \ |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner/listfaq.htm     |/      |___|___|

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:41:17 -0700
From: "Igor T. '81 DRB 455" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Re: 86 cutlass + 455 = wholly cow !!!           [ WAS RE: SB/BB Head 
ID ]

As far as I know the 455 should not be much more money to rebuild at all.
Difference may be $50 or so maybe even more for the 403.  Intake, accessory
brackets, etc.., are NOT a big deal as they can be found at any wrecker for
cheap money.  Even if you get a EGR smog intake from a '72 and up Delta 88
or 98 car.  I had this EGR intake on my 455 after rebuild and it still
hauled ass.  The non-EGR was almost no difference.  Local bone-yards price
the intake/brackets for about $20 or so, a minor difference.  I heard
something about relocating the air-box for better 455 fit.  Worth it.  A 403
can be a good motor (just ask Ray) for a budget buildup, 455 may be better
especially if you will only re-ring the motor.  If you are getting new
pistons and stuff, both the 403 and 455 could be made to rule.  Remember,
'80 Cutlass is not that heavy compared to some of the beasts of the '60 and
'70s.  This, combined with a big 455 ROCKET will make that Cutlass one hell
of a ride.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:49:13 -0700
From: "Igor T. '81 DRB 455" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Re: SB/BB Head ID

MPG or GPM.  Lets see.  If I use the 4-bbl too much, do a few burnouts and
so on, you get about 2 feet/gallon.  Just joking.  The speedo is vary off so
I could not get the exact measure.  Also, I only drove with the 455 for a
week (even though new motor, lots of burnouts, races and a stunting ticket).
However, it was not too bad at all if I drove it right.  I used two tanks of
gas in a week, but I drove/tuned the car a lot.  Don't forget over 3 to 4
hours of idle time while I changed/adjusted/tested two different carbs and
timing.  Lots of burnouts and even more WOT trials.  I really drove the crap
out of that new motor and now feel bad about it.  With the speedo correction
(about 30% off) I got about 250 miles on 21 gallons, which works out to be
aprox 12 MPG (4L per gallon).  It is not great, but with 3.23s, big Delta 88
and like I said many WOTs, I was happy.  It is long way from a 307, but I
doubt that, all things equal, will be much worse then the 403.  My friends
350 Chevy truck with 3.73 burns more gas then my 455 and goes twice as slow.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:52:40 -0700
From: Oldsmagnet <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Re: 86 cutlass + 455 = wholly cow !!! 

> Intake, accessory
> brackets, etc.., are NOT a big deal as they can be found at any wrecker for
> cheap money. 

One exception here.  The A/C Compressor will not be available.  Since the R4
compressor didn't come out until ~after~ the big block died, there were no big
block brackets made for it.  The small block bracket falls short of the water
pump.  Although fabrication would be easy, if someone were to take the 
incentive
to build one...  ;)  The older A6 compressor will bolt right up to the new
hoses, wiring, et al, but at a cost of weight, and price of the A/C evac &
recharge.  Kinda like to see someone repro/newpro these, perhaps billet or
chrome plated...  ;)



- -- 
Oldsmagnet - Charley Buehner @ Sidney Montana |\      |-------|   
mailto:buehner@lyrea.com To mail direct to me |/\|=|  |   |   |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner See my homepage |\ |=|  |   |   |
http://members.tripod.com/~Oldsmagnet Mine too|<||=|  |   |   |
     "I SEEK YOU!"  ICQ # 20418760            |/ |=|  |  / \  |
http://cyberglyphs.com/gbody/ G-Body ListHome |\/|=|  | / | \ |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner/listfaq.htm     |/      |___|___|

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 01:57:07 EST
From: DYeager535@aol.com
Subject: Re: 86 cutlass + 455 = wholly cow !!!           [ WAS RE: SB/BB Head 
ID ]

In a message dated 11/17/98 10:43:44 PM Pacific Standard Time,
igor455@home.com writes:

<<  A 403
 can be a good motor (just ask Ray) for a budget buildup, 455 may be better
 especially if you will only re-ring the motor.  If you are getting new
 pistons and stuff, both the 403 and 455 could be made to rule.  Remember,
 '80 Cutlass is not that heavy compared to some of the beasts of the '60 and
 '70s.  This, combined with a big 455 ROCKET will make that Cutlass one hell
 of a ride. >>

     If I have to go for a re-ring and pistons for the 455, I will stick with
the 403. Just way easier to stick with since I already had it in the car. It
went good before, and now that I invested in a new cam, pushrods, and
valvesprings, I would have to get one heck of a deal before I went with the
455 (actually think most if not all those parts would fit the 455, but if they
are already new, whats the point?) . Nothing wrong with more power. Just was
hoping I wouldn't have to make a decision this big.  Dorian

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 02:02:27 EST
From: DYeager535@aol.com
Subject: Re: 86 cutlass + 455 = wholly cow !!!

In a message dated 11/17/98 10:32:33 PM Pacific Standard Time,
buehner@lyrea.com writes:

<< So did I.  See some of the details that I've finally compiled here:
 http://members.tripod.com/~Oldsmagnet/bbswap.htm
 
 This will cover 78-88 Olds G-bodies.  (Other G's as well, but Olds lower
mounts
 will have to be put in.....)
  >>
     Charley, thanks for the info..the BB is TALLER than a SB? I didn't know
that..I want to keep my cool dual snorkel air cleaner on there though. How
much taller are they? We'll see tomorrow if I can locate some of the parts I
am going to need, for cheap. Dorian

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 02:04:21 EST
From: DYeager535@aol.com
Subject: Re: 86 cutlass + 455 = wholly cow !!!

In a message dated 11/17/98 10:52:54 PM Pacific Standard Time,
buehner@lyrea.com writes:

<< One exception here.  The A/C Compressor will not be available.  Since the
R4
 compressor didn't come out until ~after~ the big block died, there were no
big
 block brackets made for it.  The small block bracket falls short of the water
 pump.  Although fabrication would be easy, if someone were to take the
incentive
 to build one...  ;) >>

      Don't have AC. Don't need it here in WA : ) Just that dumb Heater/AC box
in the engine compartment. Already cracked it...been tempted to modify the
firewall to accept the non AC version box. A bit of work though, taking
fenders off, etc. Not many non AC G-bodies around that I have seen thogh.
Dorian

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 02:55:54 -0500
From: Don Sowers <dstaxpro@lex.infi.net>
Subject: Re: Front Clip (was RE: Parts Question)

Oldsmagnet wrote:

> I've learned here that some refer to the front clip as the "doghouse."  The
> front clip, essentially, is the entire assembly of fenders, hood, radiator
> support, and front header panel.  Bumper and frame items are not considerred

(snipping a bit here)

Charley, it just goes to prove that when you call someone and ask for
parts you need to be careful and inquire exactly what is included for
the price quoted.  As you stated, here in central Ky the part the
headlights, radiator, etc hang on up front is generally referred to as a
radiator support or core support.  Some do call it a header panel, but
here that term is used to describe the fiberglass/metal/plastic/combo
piece that is on the exterior of the front around the headlights, grille
etc.  A dog house is everything from the firewall forward (with or
without the suspension) of except for (in most cases anyway) the frame.
If you turn it around and look at it from the removed firewall direction
it looks like a "doghouse".  A front clip includes EVERYTHING and is
generally cut across the floorboards and clipped somwhere on the
windshield posts and includes the cowl, dash  etc.  Almost always this
includes the frame sections and suspensions on cars that DON'T have a
full frame under them.  They generally would not cut the frame rails
under a full frame car because that tends to weaken the rigidity of the
vehicle.  In these cases the body shop would buy the frame rails
separately and install them intact if needed.  On a unibody car there
are no frame rails as such under the body as I remember.  You can clip
either type of car safely if it is done correctly without losing any
structural strength.  The key with this, as with all auto work, is to
have someone doing it that knows what they are doing.  Done correctly, a
repaired wrecked vehicle should give as good service as one that has
never been touched.  MY opinion is based on having been in and around
the repair business since the late 50's, when as a kid I would help my
dad repair cars.

Don Sowers
Nicholasville, Ky

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 02:14:30 -0600
From: "Peter Landowski" <PETTRIX@prodigy.net>
Subject: Brass: Good or Bad?

I heard that brass is not the thing to use when welding a metal piece onto
a car. I heard tha brass will crack and flake off at a later time. Is this
true?

Pettrix@prodigy.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 02:17:46 -0600
From: "Peter Landowski" <PETTRIX@prodigy.net>
Subject: Cryogenic Bearings

Well I'm going to bite the bullet and buy $$$ those 455 main and rod
bearings tha are cryogenically frozen from Mondello $180.00. Unfortunately
the Oldsmobiles don't have a good choice of bearings as do Fords and
Chevys. We are stuck with Clevite77, Federal Mogul and if you can still
find them Childs and Albert. If it wasn't for Mondello pushing Olds parts,
I believe we would have 1/2 the availability of parts for Olds motors we
have today.



Pettrix@prodigy.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 03:26:52 -0500
From: Don Sowers <dstaxpro@lex.infi.net>
Subject: Re: Cryogenic Bearings

Peter Landowski wrote:
> 
> Well I'm going to bite the bullet and buy $$$ those 455 main and rod
> bearings tha are cryogenically frozen 

I can't speak for the cryogenically frozen car parts, but I can tell you
that Worth has a softball bat out that uses a version of that process
that is really tough.  It is a very thin wall bat, but because of the
process used it does not get dents in it when used in lower
temperatures.  When the temperature gets below 65 F, most thin wall bats
dent, crack and do all kinds of other things.  The cryo frozen model
wasn't being affected at temperatures down to 25 F.  I was impressed by
that and kind of wonder how much it helps on motor parts.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 04:59:28 -0500 (EST)
From: KINNEYLM@webtv.net (MIKE KINNEY)
Subject: am/fm radio

- --WebTV-Mail-1970967428-149
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit

 hello list, I'm looking for a original am/fm radio in good condition
that will fit my 64 olds holiday super 88, any suggestions or maybe
someone has one for sale. thanks


- --WebTV-Mail-1970967428-149
Content-Disposition: Inline
Content-Type: Message/RFC822
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit


- --WebTV-Mail-1970967428-149--

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #1609
*********************************

