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Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #1677


oldsmobile-digest      Sunday, December 20 1998      Volume 01 : Number 1677



hurst shifters
Re: Dyno sheet - 730 hp Olds
Re: Once more into the breach, dear friends: You are all ignoring Karl
Re: Oldsmobile POS for sale
Re: Buick engines
Heater Control- Vacuum Type-Repair
Re: starefire GT engine swap
Re: Buick engines
455 Engine
Re: passing emissions tests (long post)
Tires
Re: 455 Engine
Re: Rear woe
Re: 455 Engine
Re: 455 Engine
Re: Tires
Re: 455 Engine
was:455 Engine/now nickel content&CR
Re: Buick engines
Re: was:455 Engine/now nickel content&CR
12 bolt gears
Re: Buick engines
Re: was:455 Engine/now nickel content&CR
Re: Tires
Re: 1970 442 parts car and parts for sale
70 parts
Re: Restricted Racing Engine (long)
Re: 12 bolt gears
UNBOUNCE: Heating and Turn Signal
UNBOUNCE: '57 Olds
UNBOUNCE: hurst shifters
Re: 1970 442 parts car and parts for sale
Re: 455 Engine
RE: Dyno sheet - 730 hp Olds
Re: No Oldsmobile POS here..
Re: 72 HURST OLDSMOBILES
P.D. Locks
re: Starfire 403 olds swap
A/C wirng Part ll
Re: Rear woe
unsubcribe oldsmobile
Re: 455 Engine
test, ignore, Merry Christmas
Fwd:Tranny Q's 700R4
Re: Cat Replacement (was Re: Emissions)
Re: starefire GT engine swap
Re: Rear woe
Re: Rear woe
RE: Looking for Radio Upgrades
Re: Rear woe
Was Buick, now nickel, and Rockit's 425
Re: Rear woe
Seemingly ultimate peak of bench racing

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 02:11:41 EST
From: Rennoc@aol.com
Subject: hurst shifters

Im looking for a hurst olds shifter that came out of the 79 H/Os.  Let me know
if u know of any lying around , Thanks

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 00:17:58 -0700
From: "Igor T. '81 DRB 455" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Re: Dyno sheet - 730 hp Olds

SEND ME A COPY.  I would like to see this 730 hp Olds.  I presume that this
is a non-street race motor.  You did a great job to get numbers like this.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 01:31:49 -0600
From: "mbloomer" <mbloomer@gateway.net>
Subject: Re: Once more into the breach, dear friends: You are all ignoring Karl

>i have driven the Volvo. (on a rental basis only)
>it wasnt mutch fun tough BUT its toppspeed backwards was greater the
>forwards :-)
>
>
>Trond-Jarle
>
Would LOVE to hear that story!

Mike B
mbloomer@gateway.net
ICQ# 19113713
72 Cutlass S (RIP)
68 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 01:30:16 -0600
From: "mbloomer" <mbloomer@gateway.net>
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile POS for sale

>> We've all been through this. Stick with the car or you'll be one of those
>> guys who other Olds guys meet who go "Man I really loved that car,
>shouldn't
>> have sold it."


Pay attention here.  I think I may have found my first car I bought when I
was 16 (The RIP in my sig file).  Now that I think I may have found it, it's
tearing me up because I want it back so much that I can't sleep.  Worst
part is that the guy that has it is going to use it as a parts car!  She was
always a good car to me (much better than I was to her) and now she
faces certain death and its all my fault.  Talk about guilt!

Mike B
mbloomer@gateway.net
ICQ# 19113713
72 Cutlass S (RIP)
68 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 00:44:22 -0700
From: Roger Peterson <rkp@uswest.net>
Subject: Re: Buick engines

Ray... I'm not going to do any bashing, but you raise an interesting point.  I
have it on good authority that GM had everyone confused (even themselves) back
in the venerable days of the A body.  One could well buy an Olds with a Buick
motor in it and not know it.  The converse is also true: one could buy a Buick
and get it with an Olds motor.  This sounds odd to me, but my source (an honest
and well-intentioned man) swears it's true.  Roger:)

Ray Costanzo wrote:

> I think the reason for bashing Buick engines is that they are inferior.  I'm
> just passing an opinion along here from someone who's opinion I respect
> completely...The Buick engines (350) specifically burned more oil than gas.
> Anyone who bought a buick in the late 70's and got a Buick engine has
> regrets.  A special order Olds 350 was the way to go if you insisted on not
> buying an Olds.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 02:58:18 EST
From: CCRR12@aol.com
Subject: Heater Control- Vacuum Type-Repair

Heater and ventilation control switches in dash- 57 Olds

Any experience to relate, in repairing the vacuum powered controls?

When rebuilding the 57, I replaced all of the vacuum hose and checked all 6
diaphragms used throughout the heater and ventilation assembly. The only thing
I did not check was the control switches in the dash. Now that winter is here,
I have found that each control switch is leaking vacuum profusely. I can't say
that I am excited about pulling all that hose again, let alone spending a day
upside down , realigning my neck under the dash. I hoping someone might have
some experience in this procedure so I can prepare myself.

Are there seals or washers in the switches to replace? Any suggestions on
materials to use?

Thanks in Advance
Randy in Okla
57 88 J2

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 02:01:13 -0600
From: "mbloomer" <mbloomer@gateway.net>
Subject: Re: starefire GT engine swap

The Starfire is the same thing as a Monza and I helped a friend
stuff a 406 cheby motor in his.  It was tight but only because he
had big tube headers stuffed in it.  Since it was available with a
V8 that might be some help even though it was a cheby V8.  My
suggestion is to check with Ken Snyder as he has one though I
don't know what motor he has.  He could give you the V6 specs
at least.  If you run manifolds you should have plenty of room
(relatively speaking, of course).

Mike B
mbloomer@gateway.net
ICQ# 19113713
72 Cutlass S (RIP)
68 Cutlass Supreme

>SOMMERVLLE@aol.com wrote:
>>
>> I was all over the car today and the more that I look at it the more i
want to
>> do this car. The initial cost will be 200 for the bodyand 350 for motor
and
>> trans (403 +T350 running believe it or not). it has a complete interior
(needs
>
>My book says that the 1979 Starfire GT could be ordered from Olds with a
>305 V-8 in it.  How that engine compares exterior dimension wise to the
>350 and bigger blocks.  Good luck on usind the shoehorn.  :)
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 01:05:05 -0700
From: Oldsmagnet <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Re: Buick engines

> > I think the reason for bashing Buick engines is that they are inferior. 

Hey now...  If we're gonna start bashing again, let's keep it che*y related,
ok?  :)  I can't say much bad about the Buicks.  They have a bit of an oiling
problem, if you let it become a problem, but so does the Olds.  The 350s 
weren't
much of a monster, but in the mid 70's nothing was.  Hell, even the 403 wasn't
much of a threat to the pavement...  When compared to a similarly cubed Olds of
the pre-70s.  My GS 455 is a torque monster, by all accounts, and in stock
form.  I'm very impressed with how and when it creates it's power.  Very soon,
and very clean.  Olds, Buick, and Pontiac were all very good at that aspect. 
Every make has their little glitches that can be used as a downfall point... 
It's just that some of us like to point out the multiple downfall points of
certain ~other~ brands...  ;)


> > ...The Buick engines (350) specifically burned more oil than gas.

Well, you haven't driven my 425 lately...  8qts in 130 miles.  Burned, not
leaked...  Definately ~not~ cuz it's an inferior motor, though.
- -- 

Oldsmagnet - Charley Buehner @ Sidney Montana |\      |-------|   
mailto:buehner@lyrea.com To mail direct to me |/\|=|  |   |   |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner See my homepage |\ |=|  |   |   |
http://members.tripod.com/~Oldsmagnet Mine too|<||=|  |   |   |
     "I SEEK YOU!"  ICQ # 20418760            |/ |=|  |  / \  |
http://cyberglyphs.com/gbody/ G-Body ListHome |\/|=|  | / | \ |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner/listfaq.htm     |/      |___|___|

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 02:07:02 -0600
From: Mark <greenmm@earthlink.net>
Subject: 455 Engine

What exactly are the differences between a 1969/1970 455 and a 1975
455 (other than horsepower and torque)?  Obviously they are not
different sizes, so how come the older ones are so much better?  Any
answers?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 01:04:12 -0700
From: Roger Peterson <rkp@uswest.net>
Subject: Re: passing emissions tests (long post)

Barb, Mary and folks... This emissions issue as it relates to older cars (our 
beloved A
bodies and such) is a source of considerable irritation to me.  It seems Carol 
Browner
and friends at the EPA saw fit to initiate the great "clunker bill" in a 
misguided and
deceitful effort to allow the ill-informed to go through life believing that 
by crushing
their older car they were somehow helping the "environment."  The truth is (as 
many of
you no doubt are aware) that the companies behind the crusher effort stood to 
gain
pollution credits permitting them to pollute more or trade credits.  Once 
again the 30
second sound bite wins out over reality.  Roger:(

> Tom Berkowitz wrote:
>
> > Barb  I had trouble passing emmissions for my 1970 olds Cutlass until I 
got a new
> > carbuerator...
> > Mary
>
> Mary:
>
> In August the carb was overhauled...

> Arizona has had mandatory emissions testing for as long as Ive lived here... 
[Barb's
> post went on to talk about how cars will not be registered if they fail 
emissions more
> than once.  This led me (Roger) to the above diatribe.]
>
> Barb

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 02:13:47 -0600
From: Mark <greenmm@earthlink.net>
Subject: Tires

I have a 1975 Delta 88 and am using 235/75/R15.

My question is, what types of tires are other Olds 88 owners using?

Or any larger cars for that matter.  I was using 225/75 but upgraded to
the 235's that also have some kind of special extra-ply in the wall. 
Did I go a little overboard?  The car doas weigh quite a bit though
(around 4500 lbs.)  Any opinions?

Mark MacDonald
1975 Delta 88 Royale Convertible
<http://home.earthlink.net/~greenmm>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 01:15:00 -0700
From: Oldsmagnet <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Re: 455 Engine

> What exactly are the differences between a 1969/1970 455 and a 1975
> 455 (other than horsepower and torque)?  Obviously they are not
> different sizes, so how come the older ones are so much better?  

In 71, EPA started going postal with their emissions requirements (comply, or
we'll kill you...)   As a result, compression was reduced in 71, across the
board.  By 75, the Olds saw poorer flowing heads, smaller valves on the hi-perf
models, lower nickel content in the metal castings (weaker block, etc) and 
lower
performance camshaft grinds, exhaust manifolds, etc.  Along with EGR and other
emissions components up top to further restrict the performance production
process...  Most of these can be corrected with aftermarket or replacement
parts, so when building a hi-perf engine, the biggest concern of a newer block
is the strength of the castings.  But for a complete stock swap (pulling a 
whole
engine and dropping it in) it's much more advised to stick with the 70 and 
older
models.  I think around 73????? they started getting weakened...  Check the faq
for more accurate info there, and block castings to look for.

- -- 

Oldsmagnet - Charley Buehner @ Sidney Montana |\      |-------|   
mailto:buehner@lyrea.com To mail direct to me |/\|=|  |   |   |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner See my homepage |\ |=|  |   |   |
http://members.tripod.com/~Oldsmagnet Mine too|<||=|  |   |   |
     "I SEEK YOU!"  ICQ # 20418760            |/ |=|  |  / \  |
http://cyberglyphs.com/gbody/ G-Body ListHome |\/|=|  | / | \ |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner/listfaq.htm     |/      |___|___|

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 02:21:12 -0600
From: "mbloomer" <mbloomer@gateway.net>
Subject: Re: Rear woe

Let's explore how a crush sleeve functions.  It acts as a spacer between
front and rear pinion bearings.  The preload on the bearings, and thus the
fore/aft freeplay, is determined by the length of the crush sleeve.  The
idea
of the crush sleeve is that you tighten the pinion nut until you get the
proper
amount of "drag" on the pinion as you try to spin it via the nut with a
torque
wrench.  A crush sleeve is not a precision part and the amount of torque
required to collapse it to the proper length is over and above the torque
spec for the pinion nut and varies (wildly sometimes) from crush sleeve to
crush sleeve.  Once the crush sleeve length is set by collapsing it you can
remove the pinion and reinsert it without affecting the bearing preload as
long as nothing is changed.  The length of the crush sleeve and NOT the
amount of torque on the pinion nut determines bearing preload.  Let me
put it this way, do you have to pull the rearend apart and reset the bearing
preload to change out a leaking pinion seal?  As ludicrous as that
sounds, that is what is being suggested.  I would also only use the red
Loctite as a last resort, since it's holding properties would make ever
getting the pinion nut off near impossible.  Try the blue first and mark the
nuts position with a paint marker to determine future movement.

Mike B
mbloomer@gateway.net
ICQ# 19113713
72 Cutlass S (RIP)
68 Cutlass Supreme

>Rare Olds is correct, MUST use correct torque on compression sleeve to
>obtain correct preload on bearings, red loctite after is also a good move,
>they're not to supposed to back out and get loose but they do!
>Lou

>> I hope your not listening to these guys who say just torque to specs ,
>just
>> tighten, add locktight, do What I said thats the right and only way for
>your
>> rear to be set up correct....thanks again for the reply on my answer 2
>days
>> ago..have a great holiday
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 02:26:54 -0600
From: Mark <greenmm@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: 455 Engine

I take it then that I cannot get the same performance out of my 75 455
then?  I know the compression rates for 1970 were around 10.25 and mine
is more around 8.5, but is there any way to replicate that without
switching the entire engine? 





Oldsmagnet wrote:
> 
> > What exactly are the differences between a 1969/1970 455 and a 1975
> > 455 (other than horsepower and torque)?  Obviously they are not
> > different sizes, so how come the older ones are so much better?
> 
> In 71, EPA started going postal with their emissions requirements (comply, or
> we'll kill you...)   As a result, compression was reduced in 71, across the
> board.  By 75, the Olds saw poorer flowing heads, smaller valves on the 
hi-perf
> models, lower nickel content in the metal castings (weaker block, etc) and 
lower
> performance camshaft grinds, exhaust manifolds, etc.  Along with EGR and 
other
> emissions components up top to further restrict the performance production
> process...  Most of these can be corrected with aftermarket or replacement
> parts, so when building a hi-perf engine, the biggest concern of a newer 
block
> is the strength of the castings.  But for a complete stock swap (pulling a 
whole
> engine and dropping it in) it's much more advised to stick with the 70 and 
older
> models.  I think around 73????? they started getting weakened...  Check the 
faq
> for more accurate info there, and block castings to look for.
> 
> --
> 
> Oldsmagnet - Charley Buehner @ Sidney Montana |\      |-------|
> mailto:buehner@lyrea.com To mail direct to me |/\|=|  |   |   |
> http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner See my homepage |\ |=|  |   |   |
> http://members.tripod.com/~Oldsmagnet Mine too|<||=|  |   |   |
>      "I SEEK YOU!"  ICQ # 20418760            |/ |=|  |  / \  |
> http://cyberglyphs.com/gbody/ G-Body ListHome |\/|=|  | / | \ |
> http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner/listfaq.htm     |/      |___|___|

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 01:23:52 -0700
From: "Igor T. '81 DRB 455" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Re: 455 Engine

As illustrated by Oldsmagnet those were the main differences.  According to
the FAQ though, the cam specs did not change much (at least on regular, non
W-30 455s).  My 455 is a '76 from a Delta 88.  I have rebuilt it and dropped
it in my '81 Delta.   The only thing I did was put the high-comp. pistons
in, DBL roller timing chain, one step higher cam (still mild) and ported out
the exhaust side of the stock J heads (those poor flowing, small valve
heads).  Keep in mind that only the intake valve is smaller (2.0 Vs. 2.072).
It has a non-emissions carb and intake.  Stock 307 exhaust manifolds from
'81 were retained and dual exhaust installed.  I can tell you that with a
stock rebuilt and the higher compression pistons and slight porting work
this 455 feels 3 times stronger then when it was in the '76 (all stock).  I
have hard time keeping my big tires (and posi) on the ground and get a good,
tire-chrimping shifts with the TH400 (also from the '76).   I think that any
455 olds is a good core as long as you rebuild the motor.  Rebuilding it
allows you to make it as powerful as some of the older cores.  I acquired a
non-emissions '72 455 for core so you can obviously see that I have no
problem with the later "crapy" motors.  I would love to experiment with a
425 and/or a 403 SB motors.  Igor.

Igor Todorovic
1981 Delta 88 4dr (455/th400/3.23s)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 01:26:01 -0700
From: "Igor T. '81 DRB 455" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Re: Tires

I run 255/60/15 GFGoodrich Radial T/As on my '81 Delta 4-door on all 4
wheels.  My '76 Delta parts car had 225/75/15s on it.  I believe that this
was stock.

Igor Todorovic
1981 Delta 88 4dr (455/th400/3.23s)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 01:28:37 -0700
From: "Igor T. '81 DRB 455" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Re: 455 Engine

If you don't want to change the pistons, you could get your engine heads
shaved a bit to increase compression.  You CAN build a '75 to be strong with
no doubt.  Putting new pistons, new cam (like Edelbrock performer BB or
other similar generic brand), a set of headers and dual exhaust your '75
would really wake up.  Any of these mods alone would help as well.  Igor.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 03:33:38 EST
From: DYeager535@aol.com
Subject: was:455 Engine/now nickel content&CR

In a message dated 12/20/98 12:26:58 AM Pacific Standard Time,
greenmm@earthlink.net writes:

<< I take it then that I cannot get the same performance out of my 75 455
 then?  I know the compression rates for 1970 were around 10.25 and mine
 is more around 8.5, but is there any way to replicate that without
 switching the entire engine? >>

     Does anyone know what the nickel content was in the early motors compared
to later? That IS the metal that they used more of in the "better" blocks,
correct? Does the differing amounts of nickel make that much difference?
Sounds like some of the older (60's) motors have VERY little cylinder wear for
the mileage. Also, does higher CR affect cylinder wear more than low CR? I
think I remember seeing something about that in some article. Was it just luck
(or lack of) that the lower nickel content coincided with lower CR? I know
lower CR was emission, but with lower CR was the higher nickel content not
necessary, or did they just get cheap, as is usually the case? 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 01:33:05 -0700
From: "Igor T. '81 DRB 455" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Re: Buick engines

>Hey now...  If we're gonna start bashing again, let's keep it che*y
related,
>ok?  :)

I agree.

My GS 455 is a torque monster, by all accounts, and in stock
>form.  I'm very impressed with how and when it creates it's power.  Very
soon,
>and very clean.  Olds, Buick, and Pontiac were all very good at that
aspect.
>Every make has their little glitches that can be used as a downfall
point...
>It's just that some of us like to point out the multiple downfall points of
>certain ~other~ brands...  ;)

Agree again.

>Well, you haven't driven my 425 lately...  8qts in 130 miles.  Burned, not
>leaked...  Definately ~not~ cuz it's an inferior motor, though.


Why is it doing that.  When did you rebuild this motor.  From the pics on
you page, it looks pretty good.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 01:38:02 -0700
From: "Igor T. '81 DRB 455" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Re: was:455 Engine/now nickel content&CR

I know
>lower CR was emission, but with lower CR was the higher nickel content not
>necessary, or did they just get cheap, as is usually the case?


I would imagine they just got cheap.  Also, I believe that the
higher-compression motors produce more ware on the cylinder walls.  Higher
compression = more stress and that is what it is all about.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 01:42:19 -0700
From: Roger Peterson <rkp@uswest.net>
Subject: 12 bolt gears

I've recently purchased a 12 bolt housing (empty) to be filled with the
following: Strange 30 spline clipless w/Timken bearings, Auburn LS, and
something in the neighborhood of 3.25 to 3.50:1 (approximate ratios)
gears.  My difficulty is in finding suitable street/strip gears.  Auburn
starts with shorter gears than I want.  So far in my search, Richmond
Gears appears to be the only source in this range.  I've heard less than
complementary things about them: noise, soft, etc.  Do any of you have
comments on this, and do you know of other gears and suppliers I may
contact?  Roger:) rkp@uswest.net

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 03:47:07 EST
From: SPotter596@aol.com
Subject: Re: Buick engines

A good example being the 225 odd fire v6 in 65-6?
I was duped!
Ofcourse, I bought it in 95.

still a greenhorn
Steve Potter
65 f85 2dr sedan
37 bus.coupe

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 02:47:28 -0600
From: "mbloomer" <mbloomer@gateway.net>
Subject: Re: was:455 Engine/now nickel content&CR

Yes the nickel content is what makes the early Old's blocks so strong.
This is readily apparent if you use a rotary file on the block or heads.
Low nickel engines (cheby is prime example) are very easy to take metal
off while high nickel engines (like Olds) will take twice as long to remove
the same amount of material.  Prime example is when you machine the
main caps for the strap and stud kit mine came out looking like a mirror
(you could literally see your reflection!).  As for the higher CR causing
increased cyl wear it sound plausible but don't know for sure.

Mike B
>
>     Does anyone know what the nickel content was in the early motors
compared
>to later? That IS the metal that they used more of in the "better" blocks,
>correct? Does the differing amounts of nickel make that much difference?
>Sounds like some of the older (60's) motors have VERY little cylinder wear
for
>the mileage. Also, does higher CR affect cylinder wear more than low CR? I
>think I remember seeing something about that in some article. Was it just
luck
>(or lack of) that the lower nickel content coincided with lower CR? I know
>lower CR was emission, but with lower CR was the higher nickel content not
>necessary, or did they just get cheap, as is usually the case?
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 03:54:29 EST
From: CCRR12@aol.com
Subject: Re: Tires

Mark,
You did say other 88's didn't you ?

Well, my 57 88 has run slightly oversize tires since 1975. In my opinion it
tracks and handles better, especially with radial tires.

		 235/70    on the front
		275/60	   on the back

Besides in my opinion, BIG cars look better with BIG tires. Not too big, they
gotta fit right. 

Randy in Okla
57 88 J2

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 04:04:37 EST
From: GraphixRUs@aol.com
Subject: Re: 1970 442 parts car and parts for sale

Good morning Chris.
 We  MACOCA ,  had a good short meeting yesterday.
 Afterwards, we went to Cracker Barrel.
 There were only 8 of us but we had GOOD comradery.
 I  was wondering. I am going to be off work for a while yet ( no disability
left) . I am going  to try to  spend some time on this Jason Project. Since I
am here All of the time, is there  any way you might be able to come up to
Thomasville  - on a sat. or sun.  or even through the week (daytime), to look
at this project & see what things we still need? It is a long drive , but then
you would know what condition the things we do have , are in, then if you
found something we could use, it would sure  ly  help. Think on it ,& I'll
catch  you later today.
Do you  work,  student  ???   We will be working on it  tomorrow -sun. my
phone #  is 336-476-3432.
Roger Utter

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 04:06:08 EST
From: GraphixRUs@aol.com
Subject: 70 parts

Sorry guys, should  have been direct.
Roger

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 03:32:13 -0600
From: "mbloomer" <mbloomer@gateway.net>
Subject: Re: Restricted Racing Engine (long)

First off, cheating isn't cheating if it's "creative interpretation of the
rule book"
as Dave has suggested.  As for what Dave suggested I pretty much agree
with everything he said but have a few things to add.  I really like his
creative
header ideas but have one more.  Have you considered Tri-Y designs?  For
maximum flow they're not great but since your flow and rpm are limited they
would give you more low rpm power than 4 into 1 designs.  They are more
efficient at scavenging which would help with the 2v restriction.  Do you
run
mufflers?  Have you considered it?  It may sound absurd but backpressure
is reputed to boost torque.

How well does the carb adapter match up to the
manifold/carb?  I remember seeing an article about cup cars on how they
get around the restrictor plate.  They do some funky stuff with the manifold
to smooth the flow around the plate.  Point here is that if the
carb/adaptor/
manifold don't match up ideally you could install a spacer to smooth flow
between whatever doesn't match.  A phenolic spacer wouldn't be a bad idea
either.  What mods can you do to the carb?  If you can play with the carb
you might be able to get considerably more than 350 CFM out of it.  Have
seen carbs that have been modified and then recoated to look stock.
Everything from milling off the choke horn to milling down the throttle
blades.

>1) Most of the cars at the track only rev up to 6300-6500, the carb won't
flow
>enough to get much higher that that on the typical C-word 350.  When we ran
>unrestricted I could always run with the C-word engines at 6800 where they
ran
>up to 7200.  If the C-word racers don't spin much over 6300, should I try
to
>keep it around that or go even less and work on low-RPM torque?


If I understand correctly you were running 400 RPM less and running
the same lap times, correct?  If this is true I would continue to do the
same thing.  Target your motor for 6000 and concentrate on having
as broad a powerband as possible.  Is this a single gear track or
do you have to shift a couple times a lap?  If you have to down/up
shift every lap anyway you can narrow the powerband and gain
ultimate hp and not loose any speed.

>2) Speaking of torque and low RPM's, the track is fairly low banked to
almost
>flat.  There's a lot of change in engine speed during one lap of the track,
so
>we need to get the power down low.  Any ideas about rough cam profiles
>(approximate numbers)?


Don't consider myself a cam expert, but widening the lobe centers
could prove benificial, while anything closer than 110 would start
bleeding compression.  Since this is a race car with race fuel you
should take full advantage of CR and avoid bleeding any off.  I would
favor long duration over high lift.  240@.050 and .470 sound like good
numbers to me but as I said I'm not an expert.

>3) Will using the 2" intake valves be necessary given the restriction of
the
>carb?  All we can do is replace the valves and polish the combustion
chambers,
>nothing else.


This is the balancing act part.  You want to maximize low lift flow (to take
advantage of full cam duration) but you also want to keep charge velocity
as high as possible.  The thing to watch out for is proximity of the valve
to the edge of the chamber.  If you can't cut the side of the chamber to
unshroud the valve then you'd be defeating your purpose to go too large.

It's late and my head hurts now.  Hope this was helpful and taken with a
grain of salt.  Of all my input I think the tri-y headers are the most
promising
to investigate if class legal.

Mike B
mbloomer@gateway.net
ICQ# 19113713
72 Cutlass S (RIP)
68 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 03:41:21 -0600
From: "mbloomer" <mbloomer@gateway.net>
Subject: Re: 12 bolt gears

I have set up in the neighborhood of 15 10/12 bolts and have used 
mainly Richmond gearsets.  All the ones I have used have never 
given me a problem, though I have seen some that did.  These were
basically either set up incorrectly, used gears put in a different housing
(set up wrong in the first place, and wore in that way), or missaplication
(race gears in a street car, or vice versa).  If you have a pinion depth 
gauge and the proper tools they basically fall together according to 
the specs.  There have been one or two that did make some noise
at specs but a little bit of playing with the pattern eliminated the noise.

Mike B
mbloomer@gateway.net
ICQ# 19113713
72 Cutlass S (RIP)
68 Cutlass Supreme

 
>I've recently purchased a 12 bolt housing (empty) to be filled with the
>following: Strange 30 spline clipless w/Timken bearings, Auburn LS, and
>something in the neighborhood of 3.25 to 3.50:1 (approximate ratios)
>gears.  My difficulty is in finding suitable street/strip gears.  Auburn
>starts with shorter gears than I want.  So far in my search, Richmond
>Gears appears to be the only source in this range.  I've heard less than
>complementary things about them: noise, soft, etc.  Do any of you have
>comments on this, and do you know of other gears and suppliers I may
>contact?  Roger:) rkp@uswest.net
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 08:20:27 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: UNBOUNCE: Heating and Turn Signal

Not on the list; respond to kgaluska@monmouth.com if you can assist.

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:	"Kevin Galuska" <kgaluska@monmouth.com>
Subject: Heating and Turn Signal

I have a '87 Cutlas Sierra.  When ever the heating is on for more than =
15min it starts to smell like s#!$, where should I start looking for the =
problem? Also, when I put my left turn signal on it doesn't shut off =
after the turn. I don't have a clue as to how to get at the indicator =
area in the colum.  Please H*lp.
Kevin Galuska
kgaluska@monmouth.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 08:21:59 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: UNBOUNCE: '57 Olds

Not on the list; respond to Cwncarnut@aol.com if you can assist.

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:	Cwncarnut@aol.com
Subject: 57 Olds

Firstly, Hello to all !!!!!!!
  I am retired and am looking for a 1957 Olds Super 98 2-dr Holiday Coupe
h'top'
I had one in 1958-60. It was white with white, grey & black interior. This was
the best car that I have ever owned.  When my father passed away I found my
fender skirts in his garage. Well, NATURALLY,  I have to have a car to put
them on, right?
I've told my wife that anyone should understand that..!!!!!
Since it's been a while since I had the car, I do not remember whether Olds
made a SUPER 98 and a plain 98 or one that was not a Holiday or ?????????
Would some of you current knowledgable Oldsnuts enlighten  this Oldnut? 
I would appreciate it.
 
Happy Holidays & God Bless us all

Charles Newman
Memphis Area

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 08:23:35 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: UNBOUNCE: hurst shifters

Not on the list; respond to Rennoc@aol.com if you can assist.

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:	Rennoc@aol.com
Subject: hurst shifters

Im looking for a hurst olds shifter that came out of the 79 H/Os.  Let me know
if u know of any lying around , Thanks

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 08:25:17 EST
From: SOMMERVLLE@aol.com
Subject: Re: 1970 442 parts car and parts for sale

Hi Roger, no i'm not a student I'm in the army. Thomasville is a haul from
here, I wont be able to get there for a couple of weekends. When I get some
free time will give you a call and head up thet way. If you can think of some
thing that the car needs let me know and will see what I can do. I'm still
waiting for the application. Thanks Chris

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 06:25:44 -0700
From: "Larry Pegg" <nurelic@primenet.com>
Subject: Re: 455 Engine

Compression ratio, head design, and cam timing.  Also no smog pump and the
numbers for 70 or 71 and back are gross flywheel numbers and for 71 or 72
and up are net power numbers taken with all acc. hooked up.

Larry Pegg

- -----Original Message-----
From: Mark <greenmm@earthlink.net>
To: Olds List <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Sunday, December 20, 1998 1:06 AM
Subject: 455 Engine


>What exactly are the differences between a 1969/1970 455 and a 1975
>455 (other than horsepower and torque)?  Obviously they are not
>different sizes, so how come the older ones are so much better?  Any
>answers?
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 09:07:56 -0500
From: urbanch <urbanch@magi.com>
Subject: RE: Dyno sheet - 730 hp Olds

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE2BF8.8B2FC500
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Yes please include me on this list. I would also like to have a look. 

Thanks
Chris Urban

- ----------
From: 	Igor T. '81 DRB 455
Sent: 	Sunday, December 20, 1998 2:17 AM
To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: 	Re: Dyno sheet - 730 hp Olds

SEND ME A COPY.  I would like to see this 730 hp Olds.  I presume that this
is a non-street race motor.  You did a great job to get numbers like this.





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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 09:35:53 -0500
From: "Dave Cullen" <david.cullen@snet.net>
Subject: Re: No Oldsmobile POS here..

Oooops....make that a Slant-6.

DOH!

drc

>>----------------
>>Bad things...
>>I get beat by old ladies in V-6 Darts.
>
>Uh.....they don't exist (but of course you knew that, right?)
>
>- Uncle Pete

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 09:58:56 -0500
From: "Peter Berusch" <pber710840@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: 72 HURST OLDSMOBILES

Thanks, Mark.  Uh, senior circuit, umm.  Wait a minute......Oh, hell, I
forgot again......what ?  Who ?  Damn, not again.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Mark Hahn <mahahn@fuse.net>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Saturday, December 19, 1998 6:49 PM
Subject: Re: 72 HURST OLDSMOBILES


>
>
>Peter Berusch wrote:
>
>> Various lists ?  What about B and C bodied cars ?  Anybody know of a list
>> dedicated to the Senior cars ?  Peter.
>
><snip>
>
>here is one list for the senior circuit
>            gmfullsize@vampire.org
>not much traffic though
>
>Mark Hahn
>75 Delta 88 Royale Conv.
>Cincinnati, Ohio
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:59:58 -0400
From: "Brian Smith" <smithclan@sprint.ca>
Subject: P.D. Locks

I am currently installing power locks in my 71 Supreme. If you have any
further questions please write privately.  You have probably found the
preforations for the switch by now. As far as I know all 70 to 72 's would
be the same. The switches go high up in the door, just ahead of the door
pull straps as used on the 71 and 72 Supreme models. The 70 switches are the
smaller and rounder type, the same as the window switches for 70. To mount
the actuators you must drill out the three dimples in the door just below
the latch. The correct actuators are rather antiquated looking devices with
the mounting bracket attached. Anyway  I've rambled enough.
Good luck
Brian Smith
71 SX

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 11:58:24 -0500
From: David Brode <dbrode@hereintown.net>
Subject: re: Starfire 403 olds swap

Chris,
 I hate to bear bad news, but i don't think the low deck Olds will fit in that 
body without allot of work. I'm sure you can make it
work, but I think it definitely will not be an easy task.
 The low deck Olds is a very wide engine, compared to the sb chevs that were 
used in those cars.
I think the heater/air box will be a prob with one valvecover, and the 
steering column's shaft will be into the other side of the
engine.
 I helped a friend put a 350 Buick in on of those bodies[Sunbird]. It was 
pretty easy, as these engines are similar to a 231. The
only snag we had was the V-8's  manifold on the drivers side was into the 
steering column. We slotted the bolt holes under the dash,
and moved it over an inch to get by there.
 I believe the 350/403 is wider than the Buick 350 at the outer edge of the 
valve covers, and at the outside of the heads.
Regardless of engine, the crank C/L side to side & up/down will need to be 
close to the original location, so maybe you could take
some measurements at the junkyard to compare the 350/403 Olds to the 350 Buick 
to see where you stand.
 Perhaps with heater box mods, and some racecar/streetrod type U joints on the 
steering shaft you can do it?
 I've always thought the Starfire/sb Olds would be neat, and I'm sure it can 
be done. Just be prepared to do some major work. Good
luck.

 BTW there used to be a Monza with a mild BB chev that had the stock 
sheetmetal framerails that ran at the local strip here. The
stock firewall was removed, and the BB sat back far enough to clear the 
steering column. The inner fender panels were also removed.
The only thing bracing the sheetmetal frame was a pair of braces from the 
rollcage that connected to the frame forward of the
control arm bracket area. It was a backhalved car, that stood on the bumper, 
and ran low 10s. It looked awfully flimsy, but it
worked for him.

 One another note- The 7.5" rear in my friend's car was sort of an oddball. 
The carrier was the same as the other 26 splined axle
7.5s, but the pinion gear's shaft was a different size. He used a center 
section from a late Camaro/Firebird 7.5" rear on his car.
He drilled the welds out of the cast center section on the Camaro rear, and 
pulled the tubes, and installed the tubes from the
Sunbird's rear into the Camaro center section, and rewelded it. The Camaro 
7.5" rear's center section also has the holes for the
mounting arm in it. This way he was able to use the ring and pinions from the 
mid sized cars/Camaro/S-10 pickup/Blazer rears. Used
gears in ratios of 3.42,  3.73, and [4.10 S-10 only i think] are much easier 
to find in the Camaros, and S-10's.
 BTW the GM changed the axle spline count from 26 to 28 on 7.5" rears around 
1988, so when hunting for a posi carrier be aware of
this. I believe all the late Vega/Starfire rear's axles are 26 spline.
 My friend later wrecked his Sunbird, but i think he still has the modified 
housing, if you would be interested in it.
 Also, i don't know where you are, but if you are close to western Maryland, i 
could build headers for you, although i think the
headers will be only one area of fabrication needed for this swap.
 Again, good luck.

Dave Brode
64 Cutlass

>
>
>
> Subject: starefire GT engine swap
>
> I was all over the car today and the more that I look at it the more i want 
to
> do this car. The initial cost will be 200 for the bodyand 350 for motor and
> trans (403 +T350 running believe it or not). it has a complete interior 
(needs
> a little work) and no gas tank but would do a fuel cell anyway. small engine
> compartment. the car was a V6 car with air and auto. nothing in there now and
> still it looks small compaired to the 442. Does any one know the dimensions 
of
> a 231 V6 and the dimensions of a olds small block? if I remember right the SB
> is in Mondello's motor manuel, but no V6 info. I don't believe that there is
> any way that I could fit a 425/455 in there and close the hood.  With the
> small block would have to use manifolds (no one makes headers I'm sure. I
> think that this would be a interesting toy for street/strip.  Any ideas would
> be a help. Thanks Chris
>
> CHRIS SOMMERVILLE
> 69 442SC
> V8 STARFIRE GT ?
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 13:30:39 -0400
From: "Brian Smith" <smithclan@sprint.ca>
Subject: A/C wirng Part ll

Jim:

This relay is called the hold in relay and was last used on the 70 Cutlass
system. I don't know why Olds used this but I never liked it in my 70
Cutlass wagon. I bypassed it so I could control the compressor from the dash
switch. It is interesting to note Olds gave it up in 71 although the holes
remain in the fender for mountng it. With the relay working, once you turn
on the A/C system with "Normal" or "Maximum" you couldn't turn off the
compressor with the dash switch no matter what position you put it in. You
had to turn the ignition off in order to de - energize the relay. In 71 they
changed the system by including an ambient switch, and also made it so the
compressor ran in the defrost mode, plus they got rid of the relay. - a much
better idea. You could now control the compressor by the dash switch.
There are two  wires coming out of the A/C harness from the firewall,
presumably from the switch and power and go to the relay. - one goes into
one side of the right angle terminal of the relay  and the other goes to the
single connector of the relay. There is a wire that in turn comes from the
other side of the right angle terminal and goes to the compressor.
Hope all this helps.
Brian Smith
71 SX

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:50:25 EST
From: Knightvd@aol.com
Subject: Re: Rear woe

In a message dated 12/20/98 2:23:37 AM Central Standard Time,
mbloomer@gateway.net writes:

<< Let's explore how a crush sleeve functions.  It acts as a spacer between
 front and rear pinion bearings.  The preload on the bearings, and thus the
 fore/aft freeplay, is determined by the length of the crush sleeve.  The
 idea
 of the crush sleeve is that you tighten the pinion nut until you get the
 proper
 amount of "drag" on the pinion as you try to spin it via the nut with a
 torque
 wrench.  A crush sleeve is not a precision part and the amount of torque
 required to collapse it to the proper length is over and above the torque
 spec for the pinion nut and varies (wildly sometimes) from crush sleeve to
 crush sleeve.  Once the crush sleeve length is set by collapsing it you can
 remove the pinion and reinsert it without affecting the bearing preload as
 long as nothing is changed.  The length of the crush sleeve and NOT the
 amount of torque on the pinion nut determines bearing preload.  Let me
 put it this way, do you have to pull the rearend apart and reset the bearing
 preload to change out a leaking pinion seal?  As ludicrous as that
 sounds, that is what is being suggested.  I would also only use the red
 Loctite as a last resort, since it's holding properties would make ever
 getting the pinion nut off near impossible.  Try the blue first and mark the
 nuts position with a paint marker to determine future movement.
  >>

Thanks Mike, I follow the logic here.  With all due respect to Rare73, I think
that this makes the most sense.  The tricky part will be to not put too much
torque on the pinion nut when tightening so as to not compress the crush
sleeve any farther.

Thanks all,

Vince Knight 
71 Cutlass Supreme Convert

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:19:24 -0800
From: ojo@swbell.net
Subject: unsubcribe oldsmobile

unsubcribe oldsmobile ojo@swbell.net

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 14:06:41 EST
From: Gutlass66@aol.com
Subject: Re: 455 Engine

Smog control thats pretty much it. The government ruined All Engines wihtt
that crap

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 14:17:30 -0500
From: "Ray Costanzo" <costanzo@netcarrier.com>
Subject: test, ignore, Merry Christmas

sent to "olds"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:00:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Larry <kajrav@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Fwd:Tranny Q's 700R4

Somehow this came to me.


To:
          olds@websmtp1.bellsouth.bigfoot.com
  Subject:
          Tranny Q's 700R4
    From:
          "Rocketboy" <Olds442@webmail.bellsouth.net> Add to Address
Book
    Date:
          Sat, 19 Dec 1998 22:27:27 -0500
 Reply-To:
          oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca


Is/was there ever a 700R4 made for a BOP? 
Are kits available to easily adapt C trans to BOP? (cut and weld
bellhousing, adaptor plate? )

Will a stock 700R4 stand up to the 550+ ft lbs and 450+ HP?

How about a stall convertor(10") for these monsters? 

Lockup works on increased pressure in Torque Conv via solenoid valves
in the tranny, Right? 

Could you still switch on lockup(on a stall) while cruising?

   
Rocketboy        Olds442@webmail.bellsouth.net

"Gimme OLDS or Gimme Death..."








_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 15:08:49 -0500
From: "Bill Reilly" <wjreilly@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Cat Replacement (was Re: Emissions)

I owned a 1980 Chevette for about a month (was given to me by a fraternity
bother).  It was the biggest POS.  Anyway, it had that stamped plug in it
also, but I didn't have to open it up to shake out the pellets.  I was
practicing driving it (it was standard tranny) one day and I heard my
exhaust get louder, and the sound of "dirt" bouncing around under the car.
I looked in the rear view and saw all the pellets bouncing down the road.

Junked it after that.  Would have cost way too much to fix.
Sorry for the non-Olds story, bbut I thought it would be fun to share that
with you.

Bill Reilly
mailto: wjreilly@erols.com
Web Page: (Not yet)

My Garage:
'83 Cutlass Ciera
'84 Cutlass Supreme Brougham
'85 Cutlass Supreme

- -----Original Message-----
From: blue442@webtv.net <blue442@webtv.net>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Saturday, December 19, 1998 11:37 PM
Subject: Re: Cat Replacement (was Re: Emissions)


Hello all,

Some of the 80's GM cars with pellet type cats had a small plug.  It was
a stamped sheet metal piece that looked as if it were galvanized.  Upon
removing this plug and shaking the tailp pipe assembly, the pellets will
fall out.
Jeff Carter
blue442@webtv.net

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 15:14:49 -0500
From: "Bill Reilly" <wjreilly@erols.com>
Subject: Re: starefire GT engine swap

Chris,

Sounds like it would be a great project and a fun car to own.  This type of
car is on my future project list also.  I would love to take any late '70s
to early '80s 2 door starfire, firenza or omega, and go modern tech. with
it.  Would love to put an Aurora V8 or the GM 3800 supercharged V6 in one of
those.

I still have to finish my current project and here I am fantasizing about
cars I don't even own yet.  Oh well, maybe someday it will happen.

Bill Reilly
mailto: wjreilly@erols.com
Web Page: (Not yet)

My Garage:
'83 Cutlass Ciera
'84 Cutlass Supreme Brougham
'85 Cutlass Supreme

- -----Original Message-----
From: SOMMERVLLE@aol.com <SOMMERVLLE@aol.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Saturday, December 19, 1998 4:50 PM
Subject: starefire GT engine swap


>I was all over the car today and the more that I look at it the more i want
to
>do this car. The initial cost will be 200 for the bodyand 350 for motor and
>trans (403 +T350 running believe it or not). it has a complete interior
(needs
>a little work) and no gas tank but would do a fuel cell anyway. small
engine
>compartment. the car was a V6 car with air and auto. nothing in there now
and
>still it looks small compaired to the 442. Does any one know the dimensions
of
>a 231 V6 and the dimensions of a olds small block? if I remember right the
SB
>is in Mondello's motor manuel, but no V6 info. I don't believe that there
is
>any way that I could fit a 425/455 in there and close the hood.  With the
>small block would have to use manifolds (no one makes headers I'm sure. I
>think that this would be a interesting toy for street/strip.  Any ideas
would
>be a help. Thanks Chris
>
>CHRIS SOMMERVILLE
>69 442SC
>V8 STARFIRE GT ?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 15:18:33 EST
From: RARE73OLDS@aol.com
Subject: Re: Rear woe

JUST READ A SHOP MANUAL  IN THE REAR END/THIRD MEMBER SECTION AND YOU WILL SEE
YOU HAVE TO KNOW THE PRELOAD OF THE PINION NUT BEFORE YOU CAN CHANGE A PINION
SEAL..IN YOUR CASE THE NUT CAME LOOSE ,WHICH CAN HAPPEN ,SO YOU HAVE NO IDEA
WHAT THE PRELOAD WAS BEFORE. YOU CAN NOT JUST PUT THE NUT BACK ON AND THEN USE
LOCK TIGHT , THATS HALF AS_ _ED .TAKE THE CAR TO YOUR MECHANIC AND HAVE IT
DONE RIGHT, UNLESS YOU WANT TO TAKE A CHANCE ON THE REAR MOANING OR GRINDING,
AND POSSIBLY WIPE OUT YOUR RING AND PINION. IF OTHERS JUST WANT TO PUT THE NUT
BACK ON AND TIGHTEN , LET THEM DO IT ON THERE OWN CARS. DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST
TIME , NO SHORTCUTS. Harry NJ...Have a great Holiday!

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 15:28:13 EST
From: RARE73OLDS@aol.com
Subject: Re: Rear woe

I have set up at least 20 rears and I have never had a problem! You might luck
out just tightening but I have seen people do that without knowing and then
they come to me saying there rear is howling at certain speeds or coasting and
it never did it before I  tighten this bolt back here.....so I made another
150 bucks setting up another rear.  Harry NJ  73 Olds Cutlass S 455/4spd
                                  67 W30
                                   66 Starfire 4spd
                                  65 442

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 15:43:22 -0500 (EST)
From: mputz@interhop.net (Mike Putz)
Subject: RE: Looking for Radio Upgrades

My AM/FM radio in my 72 H/O Replica is shot.  I am looking to either put a
rebuilt(as original) or (with new electronics), or one that is new, but
doesn't look too out of place.

Can anyone point me to someone that could help with any of these options.

Thanks....

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 15:13:45 -0600
From: "mbloomer" <mbloomer@gateway.net>
Subject: Re: Rear woe

>JUST READ A SHOP MANUAL  IN THE REAR END/THIRD MEMBER SECTION AND YOU WILL
SEE
>YOU HAVE TO KNOW THE PRELOAD OF THE PINION NUT BEFORE YOU CAN CHANGE A
PINION
>SEAL..IN YOUR CASE THE NUT CAME LOOSE ,WHICH CAN HAPPEN ,SO YOU HAVE NO
IDEA
>WHAT THE PRELOAD WAS BEFORE.

As I said before, the length of the the crush sleeve and _NOT_ the
pinion nut torque determines bearing preload.  If you retorque the
nut either 1) you will undertorque it and the nut might possible
loosen back up, or 2) you will overtorque it and cause the crush
sleeve to collapse further thus changing the bearing preload and
causing problems.  If you stay on the side of undertorque then
you can use loctite to keep the nut from backing off.  There is no
preload on the pinion nut, simply a torque setting.  Since it
normally takes a helluva lot of torque to collapse a crush sleeve
this gives you a lot of room to play with on retorquing the pinion
nut.  According to what you've said you have to set up the rearend
again, so if it works they saved themselves $150 and if not then
they'll take it to you and spend the $150 then.  Nuff said.

Mike B
mbloomer@gateway.net
ICQ# 19113713
72 Cutlass S (RIP)
68 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 14:42:24 -0700
From: Oldsmagnet <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Was Buick, now nickel, and Rockit's 425

> >Well, you haven't driven my 425 lately...  8qts in 130 miles.  Burned, not
> >leaked...  Definately ~not~ cuz it's an inferior motor, though.
> 
> Why is it doing that?  When did you rebuild this motor.  From the pics on
> you page, it looks pretty good.

Well, I never rebuilt that one.  The one on my page was built several years
earlier, and broke a piston after about 5000 miles.  Then was rebuilt again, 
and
left on the crate.  That's how I bought it several years later.  Then I added
parts and touched it up a bit.  Left all internals alone, but added intake and
externals.  Timing chain, too, as I recall...  just cuz.  Fired up, ran
awesome...  I'm talking stump-pulling awesome.  For about 5000 miles.  Then it
broke a piston.  Just started smoking...  badly.  So I found a 67 Toro, really
crunched up (pics on the page also...) and pulled it's motor out.  About 90K on
that beast.  Took a while to get running, since it'd been without a carb or AC
for like 5 years.  Drove the Toro for a while, long enough to determine the
engine ran, car drove, and pass side exhaust was plugged tight as a drum. 
Snip... rumble rumble rumble...  :)  So, I yank 'er out, cuz I need an engine
"right now"  Gave it the krylon overhaul, gaskets, and scrape all the oil out 
of
it...  First time, it looked like...  You know, the same filter that was
installed on the assembly line.....  Valve seals were shot.  I took all the
pieces out, and rebuilt the lifters, since they were all locked up as well. 
Figured it'd use some oil, but that's the extent of my guesswork's accuracy. 
Everything was ~there~ so I put 'er together and dropped it in. (Oh, and 
changed
the timing chain...)  Oh my God that thing was nasty.  Same as before, except
the Toro C's, and she'd get up and boogie.  During my test drive, I broke a
couple rocker bridges.  So I changed them, and threw most of the leftover parts
in the trunk, and proceeded to drive it to my new home.  130 mile trip.  Well,
after 35 miles, I had to stop and change a couple plugs...  and add a couple
quarts of oil.  Then again after 20 more miles...  And 35 miles again... 
Depressing, to say the least.  Drove the trip a few times over the months, and
averaged 8 qts per trip, 135 miles, roughly.  Over Easter, I put my original
425's heads on it, since they were still reasonably new.  When I pulled the old
ones off, I cleaned up the top end, and inspected things there.  Not a ~hint~ 
of
cylinder ridge.  And loads of soaked carbon around every valve and every
port...  Soooooo, I felt safe in putting the new heads on it.  Saddenned by the
smaller valves, but had the ability to now redo ~those~ while off the car... 
Took off for home, and sucked up another 8qts for the trip.  Soooooo...

Moral?  Rings are shot.  Worn down to nothing... With no wear on the cylinder
wall.  Special thanks to the high nickel content.  

I'm fairly sure when they dropped the compression, they also weakenned the
blocks somewhat, since there wouldn't be as much pressure in the cylinders. 
Whether the newer ones will show easier wear, I don't know.  I suspect not,
since even with the reduced nickel content, it's still much higher than many of
the other makes out there.  FWIW, it's the super-high nickel content that 
allows
imports like Nissan and Toyota put several hundred thousand miles on their
blocks.  So it's claimed...


- -- 

Oldsmagnet - Charley Buehner @ Sidney Montana |\      |-------|   
mailto:buehner@lyrea.com To mail direct to me |/\|=|  |   |   |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner See my homepage |\ |=|  |   |   |
http://members.tripod.com/~Oldsmagnet Mine too|<||=|  |   |   |
     "I SEEK YOU!"  ICQ # 20418760            |/ |=|  |  / \  |
http://cyberglyphs.com/gbody/ G-Body ListHome |\/|=|  | / | \ |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner/listfaq.htm     |/      |___|___|

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 16:41:02 EST
From: RARE73OLDS@aol.com
Subject: Re: Rear woe

Then I guess when you replace a pinion seal dont bother to check the preload
and when you build and engine dont bother with the torque specs just add lock
tight to everything and torque until you think its about right, and if you
have a heart attack go to a car salesman for your triple bypass......NUFF
SAID! 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 16:04:57 -0600
From: "mbloomer" <mbloomer@gateway.net>
Subject: Seemingly ultimate peak of bench racing

Dave,
All this thought is starting to make my brain ache so I'll keep it
short.

We are getting into a lot of unprovable personal opinion here.  
Seemingly you are a BB guy and I know I am a SB diehard.  I
know from past experience that a set of prepped 7a's on a 
350 will pull hard to 8000.  That's the point, right?  The throttle
body was 900 CFM so that wasn't the limiting factor.  There 
is a difference between a static measurement and an actual
measurement while the engine is running.  Just like your true
running CR is dependant on your cam (bleed of pressure 
with overlap, terminoligy may be off but my head hurts!) your
flow numbers on the bench can be quite different than when
the engine is running.  I estimated the hp on my 350 to be
somewhere above 420 but have no actual dyno figures 
to back that up.  The reason I estimated that is that the 
Edelbrock set-up was supposed to make 397.  I was 
running slightly more CR, duration/lift, and fuel injection.  
Never had the money to dial it in at the strip but it did 
run 14.2 w/ 3 sec 60 ft times.  Car spun off the line a lot
and had a tight converter, hard street tires, and 3.43 gears.
With more converter/sticky tires/more gear it should have
done a lot better but, alas, it was my daily driver.  

I will bow out of the huge/small port debate as it is a difference
of opinion.  I do still believe that maximizing low lift flow/
port velocity coupled with a long duration cam is the way
to go, at least until you start talking roller cams.  Roller cams
is something that hasn't come up and with thier ability to
have a much steeper ramp on the cam I would be interested 
to see you POV on them.

The CFM question is what I have been thinking most of.  
Normally I only use that formula to determine what size 
carb the engine would need.  For determining port flow
numbers I don't really see how useful this is.  My first 
instinct was to divide by 8 but that can't be right.  
Somehow you have to take into account cam duration
in that during the minute in the CFM each cyl is only
open a certain amount of that time.  I guess that each
cyl_is_ taking 1/8th of the total CFM, but not continuously.
So how do you determine what portion of time each cyl
is flowing.  Then you have the fact that during each cam
cycle the cyl is flowing low/med/high/med/low lift numbers.
How do you normalize that in a given time/flow sequence.
This is what has really made my head hurt and if someone
can unconfuse me I would greatly appreciate it.  The more 
I think about it the worse it gets since the more impications
I think of to further compound the formula.

Still fun though my head hurts
Mike B
mbloomer@gateway.net
ICQ# 19113713
72 Cutlass S (RIP)
68 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #1677
*********************************

