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Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #1682


oldsmobile-digest    Wednesday, December 23 1998    Volume 01 : Number 1682



Re: '99 Olds Nats??
Re: 50 fastest
Re: 50 fastest US production cars
happy holidays
Re: roller rockers on SB Olds?
Comp's pushrod trivia (was Re: Thanks Randy)
Re: 68 H/O questions
Re: Vega thread, joke to you, not to a Vega owner!!
Re: Comp's pushrod trivia (was Re: Thanks Randy)
G & A-Body Difference?
Re: '99 Olds Nats??
Re: G & A-Body Difference?
Re: DeSoto thread, joke to you, not to a MoPar owner!!
RE: roller rockers on SB Olds?
Re: 50 fastest
Re: A-body styles
[Fwd: Motor Oils]
Re: Deltas, Deltas everywhere...
Winter is here!  SLAM!
Torque Convertor Swap Backyard-Tech
RE: Torque Convertor Swap Backyard-Tech
Re: Torque Convertor Swap Backyard-Tech
Stuck ~where~???  (Was T/CSB-T:)
RE: Torque Convertor Swap Backyard-Tech 
Re: Deltas, Deltas everywhere...
Re: Stuck ~where~???  (Was T/CSB-T:)
signing off for awile
temporary sign off
Racing pics
Re: Torque Convertor Swap Backyard-Tech
Re: Torque Convertor Swap Backyard-Tech
Re: Deltas, Deltas everywhere...
Re: 50 fastest
W-30 stripes
Re: 50 fastest
A Short Re: to the DeSoto thread, I Promise!
Re: W-30 stripes
RE: W-30 stripes
Happy Holidays, *Ugly* Olds I Saw, etc.
Re: Winter is here! SLAM!
Re: Happy Holidays, *Ugly* Olds I Saw, etc.
RE: 50 fastest
Re: 72 442 f/s   -  value?
RE: 72 442 f/s   -  value?
Re: 72 442 f/s   -  value?
Re: cylinder wear vs high compression
Re: 50 fastest US production cars
Re: Torque Convertor Swap Backyard-Tech
Re: G & A-Body Difference?
Ignition Box
Re: 50 fastest US production cars

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 17:48:39 -0600
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: '99 Olds Nats??

K,
OK!
Lou

- ----------
> From: KarlAune@aol.com
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: '99 Olds Nats??
 
> So far, got one other to pick up in the St. Louis area, then SE towards
TN (if
> possible) there to pick up Greg Pruett, Clayton Pierce, and others.
> 
> Met them at Centennial, gonna be fun!
> 
> K

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 18:53:47 -0500
From: Don Sowers <dstaxpro@lex.infi.net>
Subject: Re: 50 fastest

Gene Gilpin wrote:

> VERY authentic history. Ever see a YENKO SYC Camaro? 

If this came as a 1969 model, a guy I know has one here in
Nicholasville, Ky.  Takes it to the local car shows and exhibits it with
the 1 or 2 Oldsmobiles and forty eleven dozen other cars that show up.
(Olds content)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 18:11:55 -0600
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: 50 fastest US production cars

Collyn, 
My 65 Plymouth Belv I, did 1/4 in 11.65, term vec of 127 mph, box stock,
w/7" slicks, headers uncorked, only made 50 of them however, may not be a
production car in the straight terms, but it did come off of the production
line. However it was an Ugly So & So. Wanted to name it, "Hemirroids",
Dealer and Chrysler didn't think it was a good name, I loved it, however,
but, money won out!  Peter, it did not come with a heater, and only one w/s
wiper, got screwed on that one. Couldn't find the battery, it was in the
trunk, crooks! 
Lou Biggs
lbiggs@intertek.net

- ---------
> From: GT5726@aol.com
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: 50 fastest US production cars
>    Mine would be #45, with the 70 Olds 442 #46, and the TA falling off
the
> bubble. My 65 330c.i. Cutlass (slightly modified...of course) runs a best
(so
> far) of 13.87@108. I think that if I had steeper gears and a loose
convertor I
> would be in the low 13's.
> 
> Collyn Eastham
> 65 442
> 65 Cutlass
> Dallas, Tx

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 18:26:16 -0600
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: happy holidays

Too all, have a very happy holiday, from us all, 
Lou & Sherry

Lou Biggs
lbiggs@intertek.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 19:29:39 -0500
From: Rebel1 <rebel1@raex.com>
Subject: Re: roller rockers on SB Olds?

Rodger - I don't know if Summit lists this kit in their catalog.  But being 
that
I only live 45 minutes from Akron I visit the place regularly! :-)  The kit I
bought for my Olds WAS an Olds specific kit... hope this helps!
Todd

roger hitson wrote:

> >
> >
> >Rebel1 wrote:
> >>
> >> I bought the Comp Cams Magnum set - <snipped> They don't require any head
> machining.
> >>
> And Stephen Hoover seconded:
> >I also use this kit on my 350. <snipped> I replaced the locking nut with
> >some poly locks for more
> >accurate adjustments and reliability.
> >
> Thanks guys. Is the kit listed as being for Olds or is it listed as a Chebby
> kit? Seems like I remember someone's saying that kit for SB F*rd worked.
> What's the scoop?
>
> roger
>
> ps  I was aware of the high (my budget & values) priced kits (eg, Modello et
> al) and was lookin' for just this kind of information.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 19:25:45 -0000
From: "RANDY A GEISEL" <RANDYGEISEL@prodigy.net>
Subject: Comp's pushrod trivia (was Re: Thanks Randy)

>Be SURE to specify 1441-kit for small blocks. There is a 1442-kit >for big
blocks and many non-olds savvy salespeople assume 1442->kit is the one you
need, because it is more common. The pushrods >are longer in the1442-kit.


Good point Stephen........the 1442 pushrods are 1.162" longer than the 1441
rods. 9.652" vs. 8.490".

Here's another FWIW........the pushrods (pt # 7843) in the 1441-kit are 1/4"
(.256")longer than stock 350 pushrods.

The 1442-kit pushrods (pt # 7841) are .008" shorter than stock BB pushrods.

Randy

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 19:33:51 -0500
From: "Peter Berusch" <pber710840@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: 68 H/O questions

Gwinnett county, Georgia.  A suburb north and east of Atlanta.  Peter.
- -----Original Message-----
From: jason shreve <jasonshreve@hotmail.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Tuesday, December 22, 1998 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: 68 H/O questions


>Any Idea where it is located?
>
>
>>1968 H/O     Factory A/C and PW  455 does not run   Great for
>restoration
>>$3750
>>David  770-975-0808
>>
>
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 20:00:39 -0500
From: "Peter Berusch" <pber710840@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Vega thread, joke to you, not to a Vega owner!!

Firedome, firesweep and some other fireshit.  Also, Adventurer, DeSoto's
answer to Chrysler's letter series.  Dodge, you wil recall, had the 500.  In
1957 the production run was 300.  I had one.  Bought it for $50 from a gas
station.  The owner and the "technician" in the station had despaired of
ever hearing it run again because the engine had a dual point distributor
that no one could deal with.  The fuckers couldn't set frigging points!
Peter.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Lou Biggs <lbiggs@intertek.net>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Tuesday, December 22, 1998 6:16 PM
Subject: Re: Vega thread, joke to you, not to a Vega owner!!


>Peter,
>Didn't they call it a "Firesweep", had BIG fins, wanted to do "FINS" bigger
>but would have to resort to Word Perfect. Heater, really?. Airvairs' had a
>gasoline heater as an option, great for the drive in movies, I'm sure we're
>losing a few here. Drive In Movies, jump in any time you want to Don S.
>Lou
>----------
>> From: Peter Berusch <pber710840@email.msn.com>
>> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>> Subject: Re: Vega thread, joke to you, not to a Vega owner!!
>> Date: Monday, December 21, 1998 9:03 PM
>>
>> I don't know about you, Lou.  My Vega rocked.  Not quite there with my
>'57
>> DeSoto Adventurer, but trick nonetheless.  Peter.  With new hot water
>> heater.
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 19:18:20 -0600
From: <shang@connect.net>
Subject: Re: Comp's pushrod trivia (was Re: Thanks Randy)

Not that it is necessary, but I will vouch for this information. You can
order the pushrods by themselves so if you buy a small block kit, you
can transfer it to a big block by ordering the pushrods. (I had to order
a set because of my oiling ordeal.)

Stephen Hoover
Dallas, Texas
'70 Supreme

RANDY A GEISEL wrote:
> 
> >Be SURE to specify 1441-kit for small blocks. There is a 1442-kit >for big
> blocks and many non-olds savvy salespeople assume 1442->kit is the one you
> need, because it is more common. The pushrods >are longer in the1442-kit.
> 
> Good point Stephen........the 1442 pushrods are 1.162" longer than the 1441
> rods. 9.652" vs. 8.490".
> 
> Here's another FWIW........the pushrods (pt # 7843) in the 1441-kit are 1/4"
> (.256")longer than stock 350 pushrods.
> 
> The 1442-kit pushrods (pt # 7841) are .008" shorter than stock BB pushrods.
> 
> Randy
.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 20:29:38 EST
From: KS7RACING@aol.com
Subject: G & A-Body Difference?

Joe brought up an interesting item about the difference between the 70-72 C/S
and the G/P - M/C's.  I remember that the first stock car I worked on was a
M/C and it had the 115" wheelbase.  So this would mean a different frame, but
use the same suspension parts.

I'd also like to know if this difference stayed along for the 73 - 77 body
styles, as my other stock car is based on a 73 Chevelle frame and my spare
frame for it came from under a Buick.  It's easier to have a spare frame than
to try to repair a front frame section after a trip into the wall at Lakeside
or I-70 (haven't done it yet, but it happens a lot........)

Another thing I'll have to remember when looking for a spare frame for Grace.
Thanks for the info!

Take Care, and Happy Holidays!
Ken Snyder
Kansas City, Kansas
KS7RACING@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 20:36:06 EST
From: KS7RACING@aol.com
Subject: Re: '99 Olds Nats??

Karl/List:

What you need to do is drive down I-35 to Kansas City and have the St. Lou
crowd drive west on I-70, then link up at my place and continue down I-35 to
Texas.  I might have my new place by then.............

Take Care,
Ken Snyder
Kansas City, Kansas
KS7RACING@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 19:30:06 -0600
From: <shang@connect.net>
Subject: Re: G & A-Body Difference?

KS7RACING@aol.com wrote:

 first stock car I worked on was a
> M/C and it had the 115" wheelbase.  So this would mean a different frame, but
> use the same suspension parts.
> 
> I'd also like to know if this difference stayed along for the 73 - 77 body
> styles

> Ken Snyder
> Kansas City, Kansas
> KS7RACING@aol.com


I am not sure about the lengths, but I know the '73-'77 M/C uses a
different rear
shock setup that the '73-'77 A-bodies. The M/C uses the same shocks, but
one passes
on the inside of the rearend. Noticed this one day at the junkyard
looking for rear-
end parts.

Stephen Hoover
Dallas, Texas
'70 Supreme
.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 20:39:11 PST
From: "Mike Sealey" <rocket98for69@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: DeSoto thread, joke to you, not to a MoPar owner!!

"Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net> wrote on Tue, 22 Dec 1998 17:17:17 
- -0600 re: DeSoto Adventurer:
 
>Didn't they call it a "Firesweep", had BIG fins, wanted to do "FINS" 
>bigger but would have to resort to Word Perfect. 

An Adventurer is as far removed from a Firesweep as a Hurst-Olds is from 
a base F85, and for most of the same reasons.   The Firesweep was 
Dodge-based and was created to let DeSoto compete in a market segment 
just below its own.  The Adventurer (at least pre-'60) was the muscle 
DeSoto, sharing much of the spirit of the letter-series Chrysler 300 
(the 300 club recognizes Adventurers as well).  But you're right in that 
they both had fins (or, as the MoPar PR guys said, "stabilizers").

Olds content:  With the advent of Imperial as a separate make in '55, 
Chrysler had five makes, each considered a direct competitor to one of 
the GM makes.  DeSoto was not only between Dodge and Chrysler in the 
MoPar hierarchy, but was considered MoPar's "advance engineering" 
diivision as well, thereby directly competing with Oldsmobile on two 
separate counts.  

Mike Sealey
(And you thought the COPO Camaros were off-subject!)
'69 Ninety Eight Holiday Sedan

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 20:59:24 PST
From: "jason shreve" <jasonshreve@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: roller rockers on SB Olds?

I used standard valve cover gaskets.  I got a set of Pushrods directly 
from Comp Cams.  I called the tech line and told them my specs.  They 
said they had a kit, but I just got the pushrods.


>Did you use a normal valve cover gasket?  ie one not thicker than 
normal, as
>was recommended to me by Dick Miller for use on one of his kits.  Also 
what
>about pushrods?
>


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 21:16:26 PST
From: "jason shreve" <jasonshreve@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: 50 fastest

1969 Camaro dealer order guides did not list 427 engines, but COPO 
(Central Office Production Order) Camaros were factory built. These 
included sixty-nine COPO 9560 units ($4,160 retail) with aluminum block 
"zl1" engines, COPO 9561 had iron-block 427 engines.  Don Yenko received 
201 units for his YENKO Camaros. Additional iron-block 427 Camaros were 
built with a uncertain quantity.  427 swaps were also common from 
dealers.


 If that is true how could car # 10 and car #36 be considered
>production?  I never heard of Chevy putting 427's in Camaros from the
>factory.  I have heard of COPO but only in recent years.  Were these 
cars
>authentic? Or were they whiped up in local garages and called factory
>production.  
>Camaro's, But they were a little far from "regular production"
>
>Tony
>
> Since we are/were on the subject of respect for other GM lines
>>                          1/4 et     engine    tranny   gears
>>1.)97 Dodge Viper GTS    12.05@116    V10       6 spd    3.07
>>2.)66 427 Cobra          12.20@118    427 8V    4 spd    3.54
>>3.)90 ZR1 Corvette       12.8@113.8   LT5 350   6 spd    3.45
>>4.)66 Corvette           12.8@112     L72 427   4 spd    3.36
>>5.)69 Road Runner        12.9@111.8   440-6pk   4 spd    4.10
>>6.)97 Hurst/Firebird     12.99@103    350       auto     3.42
>>7.)70 Hemi Cuda          13.10@107    426hemi   4 spd    3.54
>>8.)92 Dodge Viper RT/10  13.1@108     488 V10   6 spd    3.07
>>9.)70 Chevelle SS454     13.12@107    454 LS6   4 spd    3.55
>>10)69 Camaro             13.16@110.2  427 ZL1   4 spd    4.10
>
>>13)90 Pontiac Firehawk   13.2@107     350       6 spd    3.54
>>16)70 Buick GS Stage I   13.38@105.5  455 stg1  auto     3.64
>>17)73 Pontiac Trans Am   13.54@104.3  455 SD    auto     3.42
>>30)87 Buick GNX          13.70@102    231 T-V6  auto     3.43
>>36)68 HURST/OLDS         13.77@103.9  455 W-30  auto     3.91
>>37)68 Firebird           13.79@106    400 HO    4 spd    NA
>>45)70 OLDS 442 W-30      13.88@95.84  455 W-30  auto     3.42
>>50)70 Trans Am           13.90@102    400 RA    4 spd    3.91
>>
>>
>>How does your car fair?
>>
>>Donny Arnold
>>w.d.arnold@lmco.com
>>
>>72  Olds 442
>>41 Chevy
>>63 Chevy Truck
>>
>>
>>
>
>


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 21:25:32 PST
From: "jason shreve" <jasonshreve@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: A-body styles

I thought I had read this on 442.com.  Something like 700 or 800.


>There was a small number of notchback 72 442's I believe.
>___________
>
>Sorry, but not from the factory.  The notchback ("57") body style was 
only
>used on the Supreme and the 72 H/O.  If you've seen one with 442 
emblems,
>they were not factory installed.  Unfortunately, since the 442 reverted 
to
>an option package in 1972, there is not a unique 442 VIN.  The W-29 442
>package was only available on four models that year, the Cutlass sport
>coupe, two holiday coupes (Cutlass and Cutlass S, I believe), and the
>Supreme convert.  Note, however, that there _were_ notchback bodies 
made
>with the W-30 motor in 1972, as this was optional on the H/O.  As a 
result,
>you _could_ have a notchback VIN with an "X" engine code in 72.
>
>Joe Padavano
>padavano.joe@orbital.com
>
>66 442
>68 W-30
>69 H/O
>69 442
>70 W-30
>
>
>
>


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 22:37:39 -0700
From: Oldsmagnet <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: [Fwd: Motor Oils]

> I'm looking to start puting synthetic type oils in my cars. One reason
> especially is my Toro is blowing a little smoke, and in addition my
> truck sucks it up like there's no tomorrow. 

That would most likely be a mistake.  I wouldn't recommend it.  The reason? 
Well, some have pointed out how engines seem to use more once switching to
synthetic.  That's unknown for certain, but worth re-mentioning.  Synthetic is
meant to resist breakdown, so your oil's ~viscosity~ will remain decent,
longer.  However, if you're leaking and burning oil, the synthetic won't help
out a bit.  Instead, you're dumping $5/qt oil on the ground, instead of $.99/qt
oil on the ground.  If you can keep it in the engine, then yes, synthetic is a
far superior product.  But if it's just gonna disappear on you, you're $$$ will
be much better spent on an overhaul first, or at least that much more cheaper
oil.  If you start with a new engine, or a well-sealed one, then synthetic is
the way to go.  But for now, spend your hard earned dollars on gaskets and/or
rings (and bearings, if you go that far...)


- -- 

Oldsmagnet - Charley Buehner @ Sidney Montana |\      |-------|   
mailto:buehner@lyrea.com To mail direct to me |/\|=|  |   |   |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner See my homepage |\ |=|  |   |   |
http://members.tripod.com/~Oldsmagnet Mine too|<||=|  |   |   |
     "I SEEK YOU!"  ICQ # 20418760            |/ |=|  |  / \  |
http://cyberglyphs.com/gbody/ G-Body ListHome |\/|=|  | / | \ |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner/listfaq.htm     |/      |___|___|

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 23:49:51 -0600
From: Brian Ammons <b_ammons@mail.utexas.edu>
Subject: Re: Deltas, Deltas everywhere...

I got an answer about the "LS" model, but can somebody answer the last
question (regarding body styles)?

At 01:26 AM 12/22/98 , you wrote:
>Talking about 8~ thru 85s here...
>
>There is a car, called the Delta 88, that came in different trim levels.  I
>know this because it says so right on the interior of the door.  Some say
>Royale, some say Royale Brougham.  I know that one of the differences in
>these trim levels was the upholstery pattern.
>
>But what is a Delta 88 Royale Brougham LS?
>
>And what order ("niceness", also known as "cost") do these models go in?
>I'm pretty sure it's...
>
>Delta 88
>Delta 88 Royale
>Delta 88 Royale Brougham
>
>...but again, where does the LS fit in?
>
>Also...I am under the impression that there were only two body styles
>available: the 2-door and the 4-door.  Were there any additional body
>styles (akin to the three different hardtop types of '70 - '72 A-bodies)?
>I guess "no", but if I was totally sure I wouldn't be asking...
>-------------------------------------------------------------
> Brian Ammons		Universal Internet # (ICQ) - 3585737
> MIS Major - UT Austin	b_ammons@mail.utexas.edu
> 2903 Breeze Terrace	http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~ammons/
> Austin, TX 78722	Home :	(512) 236-8088 (Austin)
> 1984 Oldsmobile		(713) 776-2110 (Houston)
>	Delta 88	Pager:	(512) 483-8056
> 	  4-door		(713) 318-5938	
>-------------------------------------------------------------
> 
- -------------------------------------------------------------
 Brian Ammons		 Universal Internet # (ICQ) - 3585737
 MIS Major - UT Austin	 b_ammons@mail.utexas.edu
 2903 Breeze Terrace	 http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~ammons/
 Austin, TX 78722	Home :	(512) 236-8088 (Austin)
 1984 Oldsmobile		(713) 776-2110 (Houston)
	Delta 88	Pager:	(512) 483-8056
 	  4-door		(713) 318-5938	
- -------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 21:48:31 PST
From: "Chris Rivier" <crivier@hotmail.com>
Subject: Winter is here!  SLAM!

hi guys,

I have a '66 Delta 88.  I just tuned it up and winterized last week.  
Just in time.

Weather is too weird...Austin, TX.

Monday morning, partly cloudy, muggy, and 70 degrees.
Monday PM:  dropped to 29 to 38 degrees and holding.  Sleet, freezing 
rain, and flurries.

Well, if you get stuck indoors, here is a fun site to visit.  Can the 
Genie read your mind?  Is it Magic?  

Check it out.
================================================================
<<Welcome to my Cave!!!.url>>  
 
http://www3.mcps.k12.md.us/users/rsfay/magic/index.html
================================================================

Merry Christmas.

Chris Rivier
'66 Delta 88...The BEAST is BACK!
'88 Festiva...ZIPPY 166K , currently car art.


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 23:00:55 -0700
From: Oldsmagnet <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Torque Convertor Swap Backyard-Tech

I've heard it rumored that some folks will take a convertor out of a 4banger
(like a citation, etc,) or wimpy 6, and use it in their V8's TH350.  The 
smaller
(weaker) engines use a smaller diameter convertor, which results in a higher
stall speed.  I've never done this, nor have I compared the TH350's T/C to any
other styles, so I don't know if it's even conceivable.  Does anyone have any
insights on this?  Will it work, what tranny's might swap, etc...

Partially trying to spark discussion for those still stuck at home for X-mas,
but also will be needing to know (wanting, at least) for possible future use.

If we don't get much discussion on it, I'll probably post again later, after
everyone rejoins, etc, after the break...  Till then,
Happy-Olds-Filled-Holidays!
 -- 

Oldsmagnet - Charley Buehner @ Sidney Montana |\      |-------|   
mailto:buehner@lyrea.com To mail direct to me |/\|=|  |   |   |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner See my homepage |\ |=|  |   |   |
http://members.tripod.com/~Oldsmagnet Mine too|<||=|  |   |   |
     "I SEEK YOU!"  ICQ # 20418760            |/ |=|  |  / \  |
http://cyberglyphs.com/gbody/ G-Body ListHome |\/|=|  | / | \ |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner/listfaq.htm     |/      |___|___|

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 01:14:15 -0500
From: "Ray Costanzo" <costanzo@netcarrier.com>
Subject: RE: Torque Convertor Swap Backyard-Tech

> -----Original Message-----
> Partially trying to spark discussion for those still stuck at
> home for X-mas,
> but also will be needing to know (wanting, at least) for possible
> future use.
>

I don't know about the t.c. stuff, but what do you mean ~stuck at home for
Christmas~?  Isn't that where one should be during Christmas?  I guess you
hate Christmas and your family and people in general and you probably even
hate Oldsmobiles!

uh, not serious...

Ray Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass
costanzo@netcarrier.com
http://www.user1.netcarrier.com/~costanzo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 01:16:29 EST
From: DYeager535@aol.com
Subject: Re: Torque Convertor Swap Backyard-Tech

In a message dated 12/22/98 10:00:39 PM Pacific Standard Time,
buehner@lyrea.com writes:

<< I've heard it rumored that some folks will take a convertor out of a
4banger
 (like a citation, etc,) or wimpy 6, and use it in their V8's TH350.  The
smaller
 (weaker) engines use a smaller diameter convertor, which results in a higher
 stall speed.  I've never done this, nor have I compared the TH350's T/C to
any
 other styles, so I don't know if it's even conceivable.  Does anyone have any
 insights on this?  Will it work, what tranny's might swap, etc...
 
 Partially trying to spark discussion for those still stuck at home for X-mas,
 but also will be needing to know (wanting, at least) for possible future use.
 
 If we don't get much discussion on it, I'll probably post again later, after
 everyone rejoins, etc, after the break...  Till then,
 Happy-Olds-Filled-Holidays! >>

     Hmm...thats an interesting one..never heard of it before. But knowing
that mass produced automobiles are produced with the cheapest parts that will
allow the car to work for a given period of time, I would have to say that the
converters would be tailored to work with the smaller HP/Torque output of 4/6
cylinders. I guess that with more HP, you would raise the stall speed, but I
can't believe a converter designed for a 4 cylinder would hold up well against
any V8. then again, it may very well : ) The trucks, on the other hand, DO
have higher stall converters, and the 4.3 liter V-6 converter might be the
best bet to hold up...but in cars, I guess you would be looking at the metric
200's for converters? Dorian

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 23:29:17 -0700
From: Oldsmagnet <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Stuck ~where~???  (Was T/CSB-T:)

> I don't know about the t.c. stuff, but what do you mean ~stuck at home for
> Christmas~?

Heh heh...  good point.  Let me rephrase...  Stuck in south hell for Xmas, and
only be "home" for about a day...  Guess there's still a big difference between
the "house" and the "home."  I gotta work till mid afternoon, X-mas eve, then
take off to visit the parents' for the night.  Hopefully get there in time for
food!  :)  Not sure, though.  Have Xmas-day dinner planned with Grandparents,
and a ~big~ meal is planned (yippee!!!) but kinda sucks that I'll have to be
back to the grind the next day.  

Sooooo, rephrased, I'll be stuck at my current residence for entirely too much
of the Holiday season, but will get to visit home for a day, at least.  

(Hope ~you'll~ get more free time, Ray, thanks!  :)

> I guess you
hate Christmas and your family and people in general

Heh heh, naw...  But I might sneak in a pair of earplugs for kid-protection... 
;)

> you probably even hate Oldsmobiles!
Ouch...
> uh, not serious...
(Whew! :)

Although I was cussing mine today on the way to work...  Poor thing ~really~
doesn't like this winter crap....  It's ok, though, cuz I don't either!  :)

Happy Holiday-S Coupe... 

Oldsmagnet - Charley Buehner @ Sidney Montana |\      |-------|   
mailto:buehner@lyrea.com To mail direct to me |/\|=|  |   |   |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner See my homepage |\ |=|  |   |   |
http://members.tripod.com/~Oldsmagnet Mine too|<||=|  |   |   |
     "I SEEK YOU!"  ICQ # 20418760            |/ |=|  |  / \  |
http://cyberglyphs.com/gbody/ G-Body ListHome |\/|=|  | / | \ |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner/listfaq.htm     |/      |___|___|

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 98 01:36:15    
From: cthomas <cthomas@stny.lrun.com>
Subject: RE: Torque Convertor Swap Backyard-Tech 

Oldsmobile G-body Mailing list 

I am currently in the process of restoring a 1985 Olds Cutlass Supreme. The 
car still has the stock 231 V6 I am wanting to replace it with an Olds 330 
What will I have to change in order to perform this swap properly? I have the 
mounts  already in place and I Just yesterday finished the rear with 4-11 
gears What transmision should I go with? and will I have to change the 
suspension at all? 

Sincerely
Chad Thomas

My Garage
1985 Cutlass Iroc-SS
1985 Cutlass Supreme
1964 Jetstar

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 06:50:06 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Deltas, Deltas everywhere...

On Tue, 22 Dec 1998, Brian Ammons wrote:
> >Also...I am under the impression that there were only two body styles
> >available: the 2-door and the 4-door.  Were there any additional body
> >styles (akin to the three different hardtop types of '70 - '72 A-bodies)?
> >I guess "no", but if I was totally sure I wouldn't be asking...

I'm pretty sure they only came in 4-door sedans and 2-door coupes. There
was a wagon, but it was a seperate model (Custom Cruiser) with a longer
wheelbase.

One interesting point of trivia: at Lansing at the Centennial I bought a
poster of "100 Years of Oldsmobile" featuring small drawings of one car
from each model year. For '77 they showed a Delta 88 coupe. But the
roofline illustrated was the one used on the full-size Pontiac 2-doors of
that year. Dunno if it was just a mistake by the artist or if Olds
originally planned to use that roofline and changed their minds before
production. 

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 06:33:33 -0500
From: "Robert Collins" <collins@peterboro.net>
Subject: Re: Stuck ~where~???  (Was T/CSB-T:)

Would love to be stuck anywhere at Xmas other than where I will be, which
is working from 06:00am to 6:00pm on Xmas day!

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to All

ps Olds content
I don't work with Oldsmobiles.

Robert Collins
collins@peterboro.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 06:38:43 -0500
From: Gene Gilpin <ggilpin@wrallp.com>
Subject: signing off for awile

Hi All
I'm signing off till after the holidays. I don't think my e-mail will hold
100+ a day for two weeks. Have a happy and safe holiday season. Meeerry
Christmaaas.

Later
Ed
The Omega Man

'74 Omega 455/4spd 12bolt 4:10 posi
'74 Omega S 455/auto 
'70 Camaro 350/4spd
'78 Scout 345/auto
360 AMC
350 Chevy
350 Rocket

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 06:41:09 -0500
From: "Mike Rothe." <hurstolds@xtalwind.net>
Subject: temporary sign off

Along with Ed the Omega Man, I too must sign off temporarily.  I'll be
gone too long to have my mailbox handle the load.  But I'll be back.

If anyone needs to leave me a message or question, for WHATEVER reason,
send to hurstolds@xtalwind.net and I'll get to it on my return.

Have a safe and happy holidays!  

Til next year
Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 07:22:41 +0000
From: krzy4evr@usit.net
Subject: Racing pics

Found on the Monte list, compliments to Derek, here are some fine Olds Cutlass 
racing images for you "motorheads"...


Derek write.............
After recieving my weekly e-newsletter from goracing.com I went to look at
 the "Photo of the week" (which can be seen at
 
http://www.goracing.com/goracing/multimedia/multimedia.html  )

anyways, while on that page select Fan Photo Archives and go down in that
 Combo-box and select "Phil Veldheer, Olds Cutlass Collection" and click
 the "Go" below that... it takes you to this image :

http://www.goracing.com/goracing/multimedia/images/veldheer.jpg

where pictured is two 87-88 Cutlass Supreme Classics with a 80 Cutlass
 sandwiched between the two.  All three are drag cars, with multiple
 sponsorship logos on the sides of them.



Merry Christmas

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 06:37:26 -0700
From: Cliff Simpson <csimpson@ucalgary.ca>
Subject: Re: Torque Convertor Swap Backyard-Tech

Oldsmagnet wrote:
> 
> I've heard it rumored that some folks will take a convertor out of a 4banger
> (like a citation, etc,) or wimpy 6, and use it in their V8's TH350.  The 
smaller
> (weaker) engines use a smaller diameter convertor, which results in a higher
> stall speed.  <snip>

It's funny you should ask after the recent thread on Vegas because that
one of the "donor" cars I was told would have the small TC.  I heard
this from a guy who heard it from a guy, yada, yada.  I didn't think a
new/rebuilt convertor was expensive enough to warrant using an old one. 
I put a couple of used convertors in my car and every one had a small,
almost impossible to feel, groove that caused fluid to leak out.

- -- 
Cliff Simpson
csimpson@ucalgary.ca
'69 442/400/th400/3.31p (Kermit)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 08:59:03 -0500
From: "Ken" <olds442@en.com>
Subject: Re: Torque Convertor Swap Backyard-Tech

- --


>I've heard it rumored that some folks will take a convertor out of a
4banger
>(like a citation, etc,) or wimpy 6, and use it in their V8's TH350.  The
smaller
>(weaker) engines use a smaller diameter convertor, which results in a
higher
>stall speed

You heard correct.  I grabbed a converter out of a Vega when I was a
youngster.  I wanna say the converter was 8".  Had to drill my flywheel to
line up the converter mounting bolts and break off the silly little shield
thingy tack welded to the converter itself..  It was in my 1968 Cutlass S.
12.90@115 with that lil thing in there.  Prob lasted around 6 months.  Corse
looking back I would say thats a serious high schooler move.  Pony up the
300 bucks and buy a decent aftermarket converter.  I'm sure it will be much
more reliable.


Ken
olds442@en.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 09:06:08 -0500
From: "Frederick Nissen" <FSNissen@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Deltas, Deltas everywhere...

Officially, there were only two body styles on the 88 from '77 to '85.  The
"town sedan" ("69") and the "coupe" ("37").  There was, however, a variation
on the roofline in ''77-'79.  The '78 and '79 coupes ordered with the padded
half vinyl roof got a thicker "B" pillar and smaller quarter windows.

In response to Greg's comments, the Custom Cruiser was on the same 116"
wheelbase as the Delta 88 and other "B" body cars. The '77-'79 Custom
Cruisers also used a Chevrolet body.  The only Olds parts other than some
trim were the hood and nose cone.

The '77 Delta coupe with the Pontiac / Buick LeSabre roof is also featured
in Helen Early's book on page 391.  This was the original plan for the Delta
88.  Olds had enough clout in GM at the time to get $$$ for an Olds only
roof line for the '77-'79 Delta 88 coupes.

Regards,
Fred


>On Tue, 22 Dec 1998, Brian Ammons wrote:
>> >Also...I am under the impression that there were only two body styles
>> >available: the 2-door and the 4-door.  Were there any additional body
>> >styles

Greg's reply:
>I'm pretty sure they only came in 4-door sedans and 2-door coupes. There
>was a wagon, but it was a seperate model (Custom Cruiser) with a longer
>wheelbase.
>
>One interesting point of trivia: at Lansing at the Centennial I bought a
>poster of "100 Years of Oldsmobile" featuring small drawings of one car
>from each model year. For '77 they showed a Delta 88 coupe. But the
>roofline illustrated was the one used on the full-size Pontiac 2-doors of
>that year. Dunno if it was just a mistake by the artist or if Olds
>originally planned to use that roofline and changed their minds before
>production.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 06:18:03 PST
From: "jason shreve" <jasonshreve@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: 50 fastest

Well said except the COPO's were built at the factory see my previous 
post.



>What do you mean by authentic history. The L72 iron 427's were 
installed in
>approx 500+ 69 Camaros and Chevelles at the request of Don Yenko, Dick
>Harrell, Dana Cevrolet, Baldwin Chevrolet, Berger and a host of other
>specialty car dealerships under a Central Office Production Order. The 
COPO
>was used to special order fleet vehicles and other specialties. 


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 08:37:05 -0600
From: "Peter Landowski" <PETTRIX@prodigy.net>
Subject: W-30 stripes

It seems as the guy who painted my 72 442 put the W-30 stripes that run
along the body a little too low below the 4-4-2 on the fender. What I could
tell from pictures I have seen the W-30 stripe is about 1" below the 4-4-2
on the fender. My stripes seem to be below it aboput 1 1/2" - 2" below it.
My question is whether this will be criticized at car shows. My car IS NOT
a W-30 but I put the stripe on it because I liked the way it looked. The
car/bodywork is great. The car shines like a new car and is straight as an
arrow but this is the only drawback. Any comments??


Pettrix@prodigy.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 09:29:42 -0500
From: Gene Gilpin <ggilpin@wrallp.com>
Subject: Re: 50 fastest

That's what I meant. But if you do a little homework you'll find that it
was Don Yenko who persuaded Chevrolet to drop the L72 in the Camaro at the
factory. Other dealers supported this. merry christmas
Ed
Omega man

By the way I'll be signing off list after lunch. I signed off once this
morning, got bored, and signed back on. 


At 06:18 AM 12/23/98 PST, you wrote:
>Well said except the COPO's were built at the factory see my previous 
>post.
>
>
>
>>What do you mean by authentic history. The L72 iron 427's were 
>installed in
>>approx 500+ 69 Camaros and Chevelles at the request of Don Yenko, Dick
>>Harrell, Dana Cevrolet, Baldwin Chevrolet, Berger and a host of other
>>specialty car dealerships under a Central Office Production Order. The 
>COPO
>>was used to special order fleet vehicles and other specialties. 
>
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 09:37:03 -0500
From: tchurchill@draper.com (Timothy A. Churchill)
Subject: A Short Re: to the DeSoto thread, I Promise!

Lou Sez:

> >Didn't they call it a "Firesweep", had BIG fins, wanted to do "FINS" 
> >bigger but would have to resort to Word Perfect. 

Remember when the National Lampoon magazine was published?  Y'know, back
in the 80s, when the movies Nat'l Lampoon made were actually *funny*?

One month, they did a piece that was a takeoff on magazine auto ads, about
a make called the "Bulgemobile".  Now, before folks get all in an uproar
'bout its perhaps derogatory roots in the name of Our Favorite Marque,
the cars depicted looked nothing like Olds of the time.  At least, I like
to think they didn't.  And the verbiage and the pictures were very humorous.
But the main reason I bring it up is that the above reminded me of the
name of the station wagon in the lineup:  The "Firewood" :)

I wish I had saved that issue...

Mike Sealey Sez:
> (And you thought the COPO Camaros were off-subject!)

Sure is... and apologies to all for going even *more* OT.


Tim Churchill  tchurchill@draper.com  OCA #30327  Framingham, MA
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, new a.k.a 'Old Gold'
'98 VW Passat GLS Wagon, a.k.a. 'der Kinderwagen'

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 09:56:10 EST
From: Onebil2mny@aol.com
Subject: Re: W-30 stripes

In a message dated 12/23/1998 9:32:36 AM Eastern Standard Time,
PETTRIX@prodigy.net writes:

<< It seems as the guy who painted my 72 442 put the W-30 stripes that run
 along the body a little too low below the 4-4-2 on the fender. >>  <snip>
<<The car shines like a new car and is straight as an arrow but this is the
only drawback. Any comments??>>

Do you like them??   If so, who cares what the "experts" might think!  

Bill (an "ex" is a has been and a "spert" is a drip.  An expert must be a "has
been drip" K


Oh....     Happy Holidays!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 10:05:07 -0500
From: "Semantana Chris (ONEX)" <SemantanaC@tce.com>
Subject: RE: W-30 stripes

> It seems as the guy who painted my 72 442 put the W-30 stripes that run
> along the body a little too low below the 4-4-2 on the fender. What I
> could
> tell from pictures I have seen the W-30 stripe is about 1" below the 4-4-2
> on the fender. My stripes seem to be below it aboput 1 1/2" - 2" below it.
> My question is whether this will be criticized at car shows. My car IS NOT
> a W-30 but I put the stripe on it because I liked the way it looked. The
> car/bodywork is great. The car shines like a new car and is straight as an
> arrow but this is the only drawback. Any comments??
> 
My guess is unless it's next to another car with the stripe, many people
probably wouldn't even notice.  Just a thought, but are your front fenders
real 4-4-2 fenders?  Reason I ask, is if you used Cutlass fenders, and
welded the emblem holes shut and drilled new holes for the numerals, maybe
the numerals are in the wrong spot.  So the stripe could be in the correct
spot but the numerals are too high.  Like I said just a thought.  But the
important thing is, as was pointed out, do you like it?

Chris Smetana
Terre Haute, IN
http://www.abcs.com/chris

1969 W-31
1969 4-4-2 parts car
plus others

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 10:11:06 -0500
From: tchurchill@draper.com (Timothy A. Churchill)
Subject: Happy Holidays, *Ugly* Olds I Saw, etc.

So, Monday afternoon, I get out of work early to make it to a Dr.'s
appointment, such that it's actually daylight when I'm driving on the
Mass Pike.  Proceeding about 70-75 in the fast lane, I rapidly overtake
a car moseying along in the center lane.  I mentally note how ugly the
ersatz convertible vinyl roof looks on it, especially how the sharp lines
of the fake convertable bows contrast unflatteringly with the overall
egg-shape of the whole car.  And of course, having to cover the tops of the
window frames of the four doors with the "canvass-ette" material does nothing
for the effect.

That's when I noticed the oval logo, with the stylized rocket piercing it.

Horrified, I realized I was looking at a new Cutlass.  Even worse, stenciled
(or rather, decaled) on the front fender, below the A-pillar, it proudly
noted that this was the "Cape Cod Edition".  Great.  Not only was the
Cutlass name demeaned, but they had to drag my favorite place in the whole
woild through the muck of bad automotive taste as well.  Oh, the Humanity...

Anyways, to change the subject.  I wanted to take this opportunity to wish
all of my friends on the Olds list -- yes, even *you*, Bill Culp :) --
a very joyous holiday season.

Whether this means a (belated) Happy Chanakkah, A peaceful Ramadan,
a Merry Christmas, a Happy Kwan'zaa... or any combination therein,
here's to enjoying it with friends and family!

And a Happy (and Safe!) New Year, as well!!

BTW, the Boston area *finally* got its first snowfall last night, really
only a dusting though.  Enough however to make many of the bad Boston drivers
(I know, a reduntant term there) behave even worse.  Real kooky weather
when folks in KY, TN, and even the mountains north of San Diego get snow
before *we* do!


Tim Churchill  tchurchill@draper.com  OCA #30327  Framingham, MA
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, new a.k.a 'Old Gold'
'98 VW Passat GLS Wagon, a.k.a. 'der Kinderwagen'

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 07:18:44 PST
From: "jason shreve" <jasonshreve@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Winter is here! SLAM!

The same here.  The storm that hit Dallas is hit Nashville as I type.  
Better get the Oldsmobiles in the garage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>Weather is too weird...Austin, TX.
>
>Monday morning, partly cloudy, muggy, and 70 degrees.
>Monday PM:  dropped to 29 to 38 degrees and holding.  Sleet, freezing 
>rain, and flurries.


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 10:24:08 -0500
From: Gene Gilpin <ggilpin@wrallp.com>
Subject: Re: Happy Holidays, *Ugly* Olds I Saw, etc.

TIM wrote:
>
>So, Monday afternoon, I get out of work early to make it to a Dr.'s
>appointment, such that it's actually daylight when I'm driving on the
>Mass Pike.  Proceeding about 70-75 in the fast lane, I rapidly overtake
>a car moseying along in the center lane.  I mentally note how ugly the
>ersatz convertible vinyl roof looks on it, especially how the sharp lines
>of the fake convertable bows contrast unflatteringly with the overall
>egg-shape of the whole car.  And of course, having to cover the tops of the
>window frames of the four doors with the "canvass-ette" material does nothing
>for the effect.
>
>That's when I noticed the oval logo, with the stylized rocket piercing it.
>
>Horrified, I realized I was looking at a new Cutlass.  Even worse, stenciled
>(or rather, decaled) on the front fender, below the A-pillar, it proudly
>noted that this was the "Cape Cod Edition".  

AAAAAAAAHHHHHH-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-H
A-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA
- -HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-
HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-H
A-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA
- -HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-
HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!LOL
WHATS THIS WORLD COMING TO?

PLEASE-OH-PLEASE DON'T BRING BACK THE OMEGA NAMEPLATE!! Bad enough they put
it on those fwd 80-up jokes.

Ed the Omega man

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 10:39:50 -0500
From: "<GJC> CC-IROC-SS" <gjcouse@francomm.com>
Subject: RE: 50 fastest

In 75 I bought a 1968 SS 396 coma*o from the original owner. she (college
student)) billed it as a 1/2 year model. It had the SS insignia's on grille
(with hide away light doors) and rear gas cap. wish I still had that car...

with the cold and ice finally infecting the North East, Quincy's finally put
to bed till late March when the "in process" driveline is ready and the
interior gets painted in.

Uuck,  I hate winter. Time to drag these bones to Arizona during these
months (next year=keep saying that)...

Have a Happy and Safe Holiday Season!
- -----Regards,

Gary J. Couse
Couse Custom
ICQ# 5209322
mailto:gjcouse@CC-IROC-SS.com

Custom Conversion Prototype:
CC-IROC-SS-#001 =  "Quincy"
http://www.CC-IROC-SS.com
Send Project Questions To:
mailto:info@CC-IROC-SS.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 10:48:41 EST
From: W30442CS@aol.com
Subject: Re: 72 442 f/s   -  value?

In a message dated 98-12-23 10:08:44 EST, you write:

<< 
found a 72 442 yesterday here in okla. for sale.  guy said best offer takes
it!  so far as i know im the only one looking at it.  heres what i know;  72
442, 350 eng. /th350, has correct grills but cracked,  NO! cut out rear
bumper,  has rear spoiler, buckett seats,rallye steering wheel from an omega
(smaller than a cutlass), disc. brakes, headers, no rallye pac, and has the
rear seat and door panels from a 70 cutlass , also the wood grain on the dash
has been replaced with that of a 70. they didnt do a very good job of it. rust
in the qrts.,  have not heard it run! the guy pulled the spindles to replace
the ball joints and found the frame was cracked and pulled up ward about 3 ".
i dont think it can be repaired, more like a frame replacement.  care to guess
how much it`s worth????????? >>

steven,  w30442cs@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 10:57:31 -0500
From: "Semantana Chris (ONEX)" <SemantanaC@tce.com>
Subject: RE: 72 442 f/s   -  value?

> << 
> found a 72 442 yesterday here in okla. for sale.  guy said best offer
> takes
> it!  so far as i know im the only one looking at it.  heres what i know;
> 72
> 442, 350 eng. /th350, has correct grills but cracked,  NO! cut out rear
> bumper,  has rear spoiler, buckett seats,rallye steering wheel from an
> omega
> (smaller than a cutlass), disc. brakes, headers, no rallye pac, and has
> the
> rear seat and door panels from a 70 cutlass , also the wood grain on the
> dash
> has been replaced with that of a 70. they didnt do a very good job of it.
> rust
> in the qrts.,  have not heard it run! the guy pulled the spindles to
> replace
> the ball joints and found the frame was cracked and pulled up ward about 3
> ".
> i dont think it can be repaired, more like a frame replacement.  care to
> guess
> how much it`s worth????????? >>
> 
My guess, $500.  FYI, the 350 was the std 4-4-2 engine in 72 and it did NOT
come with the cutout rear bumper.  Only the 455 4-4-2 got the cutout rear
bumper.  Again only talking 72 here.
Hmm, lets see, I've got a mint 69 4-4-2 frame along with some other odds and
ends and I am looking for another vehicle ...... would just need to figure
out how to get it to IN ... and, most importantly, tell the wife I need this
vehicle.

Chris Smetana
Terre Haute, IN
http://www.abcs.com/chris

1969 W-31
1969 4-4-2 parts car
plus others

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 11:01:03 -0500
From: Gene Gilpin <ggilpin@wrallp.com>
Subject: Re: 72 442 f/s   -  value?

At 10:48 AM 12/23/98 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 98-12-23 10:08:44 EST, you write:
>
><< 
>found a 72 442 yesterday here in okla. for sale.  guy said best offer takes
>it!  so far as i know im the only one looking at it.  heres what i know;  72
>442, 350 eng. /th350, has correct grills but cracked,  NO! cut out rear
>bumper,  has rear spoiler, buckett seats,rallye steering wheel from an omega
>(smaller than a cutlass), disc. brakes, headers, no rallye pac, and has the
>rear seat and door panels from a 70 cutlass , also the wood grain on the dash
>has been replaced with that of a 70. they didnt do a very good job of it.
rust
>in the qrts.,  have not heard it run! the guy pulled the spindles to replace
>the ball joints and found the frame was cracked and pulled up ward about 3 ".
>i dont think it can be repaired, more like a frame replacement.  care to
guess
>how much it`s worth????????? >>
>
>steven,  w30442cs@aol.com
>
>


So--uh--what's good on the car? 
Sound's like a parts car to me. price??????????????? Use good judgement and
common sense.

Ed
omega man

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 12:19:33 EST
From: KarlAune@aol.com
Subject: Re: cylinder wear vs high compression

In a message dated 98-12-22 10:56:25 EST, you write:

<<  Olds 350's have shorter strokes than C*evy 350's. All Mopar engines 
 have long rods for their strokes. There really are good engineering 
 design reasons why some engine brands are better than others! :) >>

Yah. Makes one wonder why the 425 was so short-lived...

SOM

&KA

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 12:19:39 EST
From: KarlAune@aol.com
Subject: Re: 50 fastest US production cars

My Thanks to W.D. Arnold, whose info Karl will now butcher!

<<                           1/4 et     engine    tranny   gears
 1.)97 Dodge Viper GTS    12.05@116    V10       6 spd    3.07
   [100 people can afford]
 2.)66 427 Cobra          12.20@118    427 8V    4 spd    3.54
    [until engine problems with the Cobra Jet set up]
 3.)90 ZR1 Corvette       12.8@113.8   LT5 350   6 spd    3.45
      [owned by how many?]
 4.)66 Corvette           12.8@112     L72 427   4 spd    3.36
   [A classic, costs more than #1+#3!]  
 5.)69 Road Runner        12.9@111.8   440-6pk   4 spd    4.10
   [seen one, comical, must be impossible to get parts]
 6.)97 Hurst/Firebird     12.99@103    350       auto     3.42
    {hope  "firebird" is a paint option}
 7.)70 Hemi Cuda          13.10@107    426hemi   4 spd    3.54
      Kinda wondered where this wold be on the list.
     Means that the #1 Viper is the HiPo Race model and a CHEAT!  
 8.)92 Dodge Viper RT/10  13.1@108     488 V10   6 spd    3.07
 9.)70 Chevelle SS454     13.12@107    454 LS6   4 spd    3.55
 10)69 Camaro             13.16@110.2  427 ZL1   4 spd    4.10
 13)90 Pontiac Firehawk   13.2@107     350       6 spd    3.54
 16)70 Buick GS Stage I   13.38@105.5  455 stg1  auto     3.64
 17)73 Pontiac Trans Am   13.54@104.3  455 SD    auto     3.42
 30)87 Buick GNX          13.70@102    231 T-V6  auto     3.43
 36)68 HURST/OLDS         13.77@103.9  455 W-30  auto     3.91
 37)68 Firebird           13.79@106    400 HO    4 spd    NA
 45)70 OLDS 442 W-30      13.88@95.84  455 W-30  auto     3.42
 50)70 Trans Am           13.90@102    400 RA    4 spd    3.91
 
 How does your car fair?  >>

My 425?
I get reliability, plus I AM faster than half of the pukes tha misuse the
above engines!
Overall?
They suffer.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 13:09:08 -0500
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: Torque Convertor Swap Backyard-Tech

I've heard it rumored that some folks will take a convertor out of a
4banger
(like a citation, etc,) or wimpy 6, and use it in their V8's TH350.
__________

You're absolutely correct, Charlie.  The popular swap was to grab the small
diameter Vega converter (there's that Vega thread again) and use it in the
TH350.  The only problem with this is durability, however, as aftermarket
small diameter converters are usually beefed up for their intended
high-stall drag strip abuse, whereas these econo-car units are cheapo
low-po units which won't take this abuse for very long.

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 13:04:59 -0500
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: G & A-Body Difference?

Joe brought up an interesting item about the difference between the 70-72
C/S
and the G/P - M/C's.  I remember that the first stock car I worked on was a
M/C and it had the 115" wheelbase.  So this would mean a different frame,
but
use the same suspension parts.
__________

I always thought it was peculiar, given GM's penchant for making parts as
common as possible, that they created a brand new 115" wb frame for the
MC/GP rather than use the existing 116" wagon/four door frame.  Go figure.

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 13:43:25 -0600
From: senator@mail.chorus.net
Subject: Ignition Box

I was reading my JC Whitney catalog, and I came across a Crane Cams
Ignition System (or something along those lines).  It seems that it
replaces the distributor.  Is this true?  I would sure be interested in it
if it would take the place of my distributor.  Sure would make changing the
timing a lot easier.

Oh yeah, please send responses to senator@mail.chorus.net.  I'm in digest
mode, and about 2 weeks behind...

Bob

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 14:56:56 -0500
From: Gene Gilpin <ggilpin@wrallp.com>
Subject: Re: 50 fastest US production cars

Alright, I've had enough.
First of all, you CANNOT hold this list of 50 fastest cars as gospal. For
one thing, There are alot of FACTORY BUILT (read:produced on the assembly
line, NOT dealer preped) cars that were produced albiet in small numbers,
that would eclipse the Viper (which was listed as #1). But you say their
wasn't very many made so you can't include those as "production" cars. I
say bullsh*t. If you could go to the dealer and purchase a car that was
brand new, (some w/warranty) Then I say that is a FACTORY PRODUCTION CAR.
ever hear of these:
'64 Ford Thunderbolt Fairlane 427 side oiler 8v
'62-'63 lightweight Bel-Air's 409/409 8v (don't forget the early 427,
though that was an oval track engine that proved unreliable ((gave birth to
the mark IV big block 396/427/454, 366/427 tall deck for you big truck guys))
'62-'63 lightweight Pontiac Catlina 421 super duty
How about the Hemi and Max Wedge 426 Dodges and Plymouths 
How about the Hemi Dart of '68
COPO Camaro's (already discussed)
COPO Chevelles. (OH YEA!, YOU COULD GET A 427/425 HP CHEVELLE IN 1969)
 ((oh, but there was a ban on GM of 400 cu in.)) wha wha wha.
COPO NOVA!! There is a debate whether a VERY FEW '69 Novas sneaked out of
the plant with 427 power. (I however doubt this. I believe ALL the
Baldwins, Nickeys, and Yenkos were dealer transplated). There are however 2
documented cases of 70 COPO Novas with the Corvette/Z28 only LT1 350/360
hp. The Yenko Deuces were transplant cars.
AN L-88 427 VETTE WITH SLICKS WOULD DO 11'S (faster than the Viper)
But on this 50 list the L-88 didn't fare well cause it wouldn't hook up on
1969 bias-plys. Which is the case for most of these old drag tests. By the
way, The '70 Chevelle SS454 LS6 tested by Car Craft in 1970 did indeed turn
13.12 but it was packing 4.10 gears, not 3.55.
Granted, some of these were built to be super stock drag cars exclusively
and in very small quantitys. But they were built AT the factory.
And If you want to get into a discussion of dealer prepped monsters, WELL,
FEW could argue that the Baldwin-Motion Supercars were the most AWESOME
machines to ever be assembled. I'll take a beefed LS6 '70 PHASE III
Chevelle/Camaro/Nova with all the goodies installed by Motion Performance,
GUARENTEED to run 125mph in 11.5 seconds WITH FACTORY WARRANTY!!...Make
mine red.

All I have to say is lets finally end this tread. We all know that an
Oldsmobile is not the fastest car ever made. DOES THAT MATTER????. WHO
CARES??? THESE ARE ONLY OLD ROAD TESTS... I'd take on any one of 'em with
my '74 OMEGA 455 4spd 12 bolt 4:10 posi out back. Does anyone see this
thing on the 50 fastest list?? Of course not. Factory didn't make it. I
DID!!. I know there's a lot of you out there with an Olds that could place
in the top three of this "bible" list of 50 vehicles. But Motor Trend and
Car Craft didn't test YOUR vehicle. There's no end to this subject. 
Just my .02

Take Care and Merry Christmas Everybody.
Ed
The Omega Man
'74 Omega 455/4spd
'74 Omega S 455/auto
- -----------------------------------------------------

Karl wrote:
>My Thanks to W.D. Arnold, whose info Karl will now butcher!
>
><<                           1/4 et     engine    tranny   gears
> 1.)97 Dodge Viper GTS    12.05@116    V10       6 spd    3.07
>   [100 people can afford]
> 2.)66 427 Cobra          12.20@118    427 8V    4 spd    3.54
>    [until engine problems with the Cobra Jet set up]
> 3.)90 ZR1 Corvette       12.8@113.8   LT5 350   6 spd    3.45
>      [owned by how many?]
> 4.)66 Corvette           12.8@112     L72 427   4 spd    3.36
>   [A classic, costs more than #1+#3!]  
> 5.)69 Road Runner        12.9@111.8   440-6pk   4 spd    4.10
>   [seen one, comical, must be impossible to get parts]
> 6.)97 Hurst/Firebird     12.99@103    350       auto     3.42
>    {hope  "firebird" is a paint option}
> 7.)70 Hemi Cuda          13.10@107    426hemi   4 spd    3.54
>      Kinda wondered where this wold be on the list.
>     Means that the #1 Viper is the HiPo Race model and a CHEAT!  
> 8.)92 Dodge Viper RT/10  13.1@108     488 V10   6 spd    3.07
> 9.)70 Chevelle SS454     13.12@107    454 LS6   4 spd    3.55
> 10)69 Camaro             13.16@110.2  427 ZL1   4 spd    4.10
> 13)90 Pontiac Firehawk   13.2@107     350       6 spd    3.54
> 16)70 Buick GS Stage I   13.38@105.5  455 stg1  auto     3.64
> 17)73 Pontiac Trans Am   13.54@104.3  455 SD    auto     3.42
> 30)87 Buick GNX          13.70@102    231 T-V6  auto     3.43
> 36)68 HURST/OLDS         13.77@103.9  455 W-30  auto     3.91
> 37)68 Firebird           13.79@106    400 HO    4 spd    NA
> 45)70 OLDS 442 W-30      13.88@95.84  455 W-30  auto     3.42
> 50)70 Trans Am           13.90@102    400 RA    4 spd    3.91
> 
> How does your car fair?  >>
>
>My 425?
>I get reliability, plus I AM faster than half of the pukes tha misuse the
>above engines!
>Overall?
>They suffer.
>
>

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #1682
*********************************

