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Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #1669


oldsmobile-digest    Wednesday, December 16 1998    Volume 01 : Number 1669



cutlass supreme engine offset
Re: Olds and F-Bodies
Mondello porting?
Re: Diesel Question
Re: Olds and F-Bodies
RE: Illinois engine shop feedback needed
Re: EGR and 455s
RE: Olds and F-Bodies
Re: 700R4 tranny w/not shift (Non Olds)
Date:	Tue, 15 Dec 1998 21:09:51 -0500
Re: Olds and F-Bodies
AM Radio is killing me! WTB '76 AM/FM Cassette!
Re: cutlass supreme engine offset
Re: Heater Blower Relay (a thread off of
Re: cutlass supreme engine offset
maybe 76/ Regency parts F/S
Re: cutlass supreme engine offset
Re: Re:8000 rpm [more bench racing]
Re: cutlass supreme engine offset
Re: maybe 76/ Regency parts F/S
Re: Why no Victor intake for the Battens?
Re: Olds and F-Bodies
Re: 
Re: cutlass supreme engine offset
Re: Aligning a door
Re: maybe 76/ Regency parts F/S
Re: 8000 rpm [Big Guns, now...]
GJC
RE: 
CC-IROC's visitors
Re: GJC
Re: cutlass supreme engine offset
Re: Diesel Question
Re: 700R4 tranny w/not shift (Non Olds)
Re: GJC
Re: Batten Heads Web Site ???
Re: cutlass supreme engine offset
Re: Pre-Paint Metal Treatment
Re: 455 CCC Smog Results
Re: IGOR READ
PISTON FILLING
Re: Pre-Paint Metal Treatment
Re: AM Radio is killing me! WTB '76 AM/FM Cassette!
UNBOUNCE: Re: Aligning a door
Re: Heater Blower Relay (a thread off of
Re: PISTON FILLING
Re: Heater Blower Relay (a thread off of
appraisals
Re: Arizona Junkyards
Re: GJC
Re: PISTON FILLING
EFI was Re: Heater Blower blah blah blah
Re: Olds and F-Bodies
Re: 700R4 tranny w/not shift (Non Olds)
Vista Cruiser tailgate
Re:8000 rpm [more bench racing]
Re: 68 442 convert found?
Re: GJC
Re: Mondello porting?
Re: AM Radio is killing me! WTB '76 AM/FM Cassette!
Re: cutlass supreme engine offset

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 17:36 
From: "John Carri" <jcarri@alesis1.usa.com>
Subject: cutlass supreme engine offset

Hi all,
       I discovered recently that some model year Cutlass Supremes and 
Cutlass S's had the engine mounted offset to the left of the car 
centreline by about two inches, making header clearance, sparkplug 
access, etc, very tight (esp. with the 455, but even with the 350).  
My '72 with 350-4bbl V8 appears to fit the description, as Heddman 
lists in its header application footnotes "will not fit Cutlass 
Supreme and Cutlass S models". 

    My questions:

   1) Does anyone make a 1 5/8" or similar small-tube header that fits 
an Olds 350 in a 72' Supreme or S model?   Anyone have experence with 
how hard an install this is?

   2) How hard would it be to move the engine to the same location as 
regular Cutlass and 442 models?  What parts would be required?  (is it 
just different motor mounts that bolt in, or is welding and torching 
required.)

   3) Anyone know WHY the engine is offset to the left in these 
models?  Was it for improved weight distribution or something? One 
would think offsetting the engine would worsen lateral weight 
distribution.

   4) A beginners question - what was the stock automatic transmission 
in a '72 Olds Cutlass with the 350/4bbl engine? A TH350 or a TH400?
(I'm new to Oldsmobiles and GM cars in general.)
   
   Much appreciate any info on this!


- -John Carri

'72 Olds Cutlass Supreme (350/4bbl , auto)    (my daily driver)
'73 Plymouth Roadrunner  (340/4bbl, 727 auto) (a work in progress)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 19:53:16 -0600
From: Brian Ammons <b_ammons@mail.utexas.edu>
Subject: Re: Olds and F-Bodies

I sure would like someone to answer this question...very interesting...

At 04:20 PM 12/15/98 , you wrote:
>Evenin' List:
>
>Given my tendency to indulge in obscure information, I have a curious
>question for those more versed in Olds history than I, which isn't
>saying a whole lot.  Anyhoo, did Olds ever consider making an F-body?
>If so, are there any pictures, on the 'Net or otherwise, of such a
>beast?
>
>--
>Thomas P. Smith
>1971 Cutlass S 350
>smithtp@ix.netcom.com
> 
- -------------------------------------------------------------
 Brian Ammons		 Universal Internet # (ICQ) - 3585737
 MIS Major - UT Austin	 b_ammons@mail.utexas.edu
 2903 Breeze Terrace	 http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~ammons/
 Austin, TX 78722	Home :	(512) 236-8088 (Austin)
 1984 Oldsmobile		(713) 776-2110 (Houston)
	Delta 88	Pager:	(512) 483-8056
 	  4-door		(713) 318-5938	
- -------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 20:51:14 -0500
From: "Ken" <olds442@en.com>
Subject: Mondello porting?

Has anyone coughed up the 1900 for a set of competion ported "C" heads from
Mondello?  I'm thinking of buying a set and was wondering if they are really
worth it.  Dick Miller said I would be ahead of the game if I bought a set
of ported cast iron heads rather than run a stock set of the new aluminum
ones.  Any thoughts?

Ken
olds442@en.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 20:53:57 -0500
From: "Frederick Nissen" <FSNissen@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Diesel Question

Significantly stronger block.  Especially with the DX block ('81 and up).
Check carefully (magnaflux) for stress cracks though.  The Diesel ran 22.5
to 1 compression.  Diesels also always operate at a stress level comparable
to full throttle in a gas engine.   The bottom end shared bearing specs with
the 455 and other big block engines.  There are a number of good references
about using the diesel block for a high po gas engine.  As for prices, a
local junk yard gets $75 for diesel core engines, even if running.
Regards,
Fred

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 20:56:53 -0500
From: "Frederick Nissen" <FSNissen@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Olds and F-Bodies

Olds never officially considered an F body.  A friend of mine who is a
commercial illustrator Bill Mitchell fan and Toronado chapter member did
sketch a Olds F body.  I'll see if anyone I know can scan in the pics.  Have
always hated F bodies, but this one is pretty sharp!
Regards,
Fred

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 19:58:27 -0600
From: Martin Thomas-WLTM07 <Thomas_Martin-WLTM07@css.mot.com>
Subject: RE: Illinois engine shop feedback needed

I have not tried them, but I am interested in a good shop, I am not to far
from Rockford, what is the number and address?  

I have an Olds 307 and a Pontiac 301/377 and 455 to start to work on.

Thanks!
Thomas Martin
80 Turbo Trans AM
85 Cutlass Supreme Rocket 350 CCC
91 Bonneville LE 3800

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 21:03:02 -0500
From: "Frederick Nissen" <FSNissen@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: EGR and 455s

Joe,
You may be right.  I was speaking of 49 state cars.  (Assumed there wouldn't
be too many CA cars in junkyards in Canada near Igor.)  Anyone out the re
with a '72 service manual that shows EGR?
Regards,
Fred

Jor P. Wrote:

>Igor,
>
>EGR came out in '73.  If the cars you saw were actually '72 models, they
>did
>not have the original engines.
>________
>
>That's certainly true for 49-state cars, but didn't California phase in EGR
>starting in 1972?  My failing memory vaguely recalls something like this,
>but I certainly wouldn't put money on it.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 21:05:08 -0500
From: "<GJC> CC-IROC-SS" <gjcouse@francomm.com>
Subject: RE: Olds and F-Bodies

I'll take a copy of that Fred!

Have a Happy and Safe Holiday Season!
- -----Regards,

Gary J. Couse
Couse Custom
ICQ# 5209322
mailto:gjcouse@CC-IROC-SS.com

Custom Conversion Prototype:
CC-IROC-SS-#001 =  "Quincy"
http://www.CC-IROC-SS.com
Send Project Questions To:
mailto:info@CC-IROC-SS.com


Olds never officially considered an F body.  A friend of mine who is a
commercial illustrator Bill Mitchell fan and Toronado chapter member did
sketch a Olds F body.  I'll see if anyone I know can scan in the pics.  Have
always hated F bodies, but this one is pretty sharp!
Regards,
Fred

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 20:05:08 -0600
From: Martin Thomas-WLTM07 <Thomas_Martin-WLTM07@css.mot.com>
Subject: Re: 700R4 tranny w/not shift (Non Olds)

You are correct, the Buick Powered 3.8L Turbo Trans AM of 1989 did have the
THM200 4R.  Visit the GN site at http://ni.umd.edu/gnttype/www/.  They have
all the info.

Thomas Martin
80 Turbo Trans AM
85 Cutlass Supreme Rocket 350 CCC
91 Bonneville LE 3800

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 21:09:51 -0500
From: "<GJC> CC-IROC-SS" <gjcouse@francomm.com>
Subject: Date:	Tue, 15 Dec 1998 21:09:51 -0500

The CC-IROC-SS site is 2 hits from 1,000. Who feels lucky?

Have a Happy and Safe Holiday Season!
- -----Regards,

Gary J. Couse
Couse Custom
ICQ# 5209322
mailto:gjcouse@CC-IROC-SS.com 

Custom Conversion Prototype: 
CC-IROC-SS-#001 =  "Quincy"
http://www.CC-IROC-SS.com
Send Project Questions To:
mailto:info@CC-IROC-SS.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 21:10:34 EST
From: RARE73OLDS@aol.com
Subject: Re: Olds and F-Bodies

I'll take a copy of that too.....sounds like there is money to be made
here...Rare73olds  from NJ

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 02:37:48 -0600
From: "Charles A. Dempsey" <cdemps@lsumc.edu>
Subject: AM Radio is killing me! WTB '76 AM/FM Cassette!

Hi Folks,

My '76 CS has the AM *only* radio. There's not squat on AM radio these
days.

I would like to find an original Delco AM/FM Stereo Cassette for my '76.
I'm going to change the speakers too. If you have a nice original Olds
or GM AM/FM cassette (and/or speakers) that you have tested and found to
be in good working order and would like to sell, please e-mail directly.
No need for this traffic on the list.

I will also consider an AM/FM Stereo only unit.

I don't want an aftermarket radio, but will consider trading one of the
many I've got for your original unit.

Please include all knobs, connectors, brackets and widgets that may be
required.

I've looked in the junk yards, but what I found was mostly junk.

Thanks,
Charles

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 20:34:24 -0600
From: "mbloomer" <mbloomer@gateway.net>
Subject: Re: cutlass supreme engine offset

Having put headers on my 72 S (350) all I can say is "WHAT?"  I have 
never heard of this and consider it highly suspect.  I put small tube
headers on it with no problem (Blackjack, I think, aluminum coated
never rusted and cost $120 or so).  My motor sat a little crooked 
from getting airborne once, which relocated the bottom of the oil
pan 1/2" up in the car.  It also bent both motor mounts and always
sat a little crooked after that.  If your's has had something similar
happen then that may make it appear (looking at the air cleaner)
that it is offset.  I know for a fact that mine was centered in the 
chassis because I measured it every which way trying to figure out
why it sat crooked (when I finally get my site done you'll see the 1/8"
skidplate on the new pan!).  If you eliminate the S and Supreme cars
then that leaves the convertible which is harder than the others
to fit, so I've heard.  I'm not positive on the big blocks (could have been
done to ease access to the pass side of engine on A/C cars) but I
doubt it too.  Personally I think Heddman is just off thier rockers or it
may have been misread (no flame intended).  As far as your trans
question it's probably a TH 350 but look at the pan.  If it's basically 
square with one corner cut off it's a TH350.  If it looks like the state
of Texas it's a TH400.

Mike B
mbloomer@gateway.net
ICQ# 19113713
72 Cutlass S (RIP)
68 Cutlass Supreme

Hi all,
       I discovered recently that some model year Cutlass Supremes and 
Cutlass S's had the engine mounted offset to the left of the car 
centreline by about two inches, making header clearance, sparkplug 
access, etc, very tight (esp. with the 455, but even with the 350).  
My '72 with 350-4bbl V8 appears to fit the description, as Heddman 
lists in its header application footnotes "will not fit Cutlass 
Supreme and Cutlass S models". 

<snip>
   4) A beginners question - what was the stock automatic transmission 
in a '72 Olds Cutlass with the 350/4bbl engine? A TH350 or a TH400?
(I'm new to Oldsmobiles and GM cars in general.)
   

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 21:38:12 EST
From: OLDS44272@aol.com
Subject: Re: Heater Blower Relay (a thread off of

In a message dated 98-12-15 16:09:01 EST, you write:

<< >And someone also mentioned that the A/C fan _sounds_ more powerful
 >than the non-A/C equivalent, even though it's the same blower. I'd
 >guess that the different ducting between A/C and non-A/C cars might
 >have something to do with it, plus the MAX A/C setting recirculates
 >the air inside the car and sounds a lot noisier while doing it.
  >>
    Plus too, on an A/C car, the fan would need to push the air through the
evaporator too.So that might explain it too.....SCOTT

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:20:15 -0500
From: Matt Cremean <creme1ma@cmich.edu>
Subject: Re: cutlass supreme engine offset

John Carri wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
>        I discovered recently that some model year Cutlass Supremes and
> Cutlass S's had the engine mounted offset to the left of the car
> centreline by about two inches, making header clearance, sparkplug
> access, etc, very tight (esp. with the 455, but even with the 350).
> My '72 with 350-4bbl V8 appears to fit the description, as Heddman
> lists in its header application footnotes "will not fit Cutlass
> Supreme and Cutlass S models".

Yeah, it sure would have been nice if they would've told me that, BEFORE
we went through the whole process of rebending the tubes so they'd
fit!!!!

>     My questions:
> 
>    1) Does anyone make a 1 5/8" or similar small-tube header that fits
> an Olds 350 in a 72' Supreme or S model?   Anyone have experence with
> how hard an install this is?
> 
>    2) How hard would it be to move the engine to the same location as
> regular Cutlass and 442 models?  What parts would be required?  (is it
> just different motor mounts that bolt in, or is welding and torching
> required.)
> 
>    3) Anyone know WHY the engine is offset to the left in these
> models?  Was it for improved weight distribution or something? One
> would think offsetting the engine would worsen lateral weight
> distribution.
> 
>    4) A beginners question - what was the stock automatic transmission
> in a '72 Olds Cutlass with the 350/4bbl engine? A TH350 or a TH400?
> (I'm new to Oldsmobiles and GM cars in general.)
> 
>    Much appreciate any info on this!
> 
> -John Carri
> 
> '72 Olds Cutlass Supreme (350/4bbl , auto)    (my daily driver)
> '73 Plymouth Roadrunner  (340/4bbl, 727 auto) (a work in progress)

- -- 
***********
Matt Cremean
mailto:creme1ma@cmich.edu
***************************
1973 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme (350 V-8 4 bbl)
1975 Oldsmobile Cutlass S (250 I-6 1 bbl)
1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass S (350 V-8 2 bbl)
1983 Ch*vrolet C*price (305 V-8 4 bbl)
*******************************************
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/
*******************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:06:26 EST
From: OLDS44272@aol.com
Subject: maybe 76/ Regency parts F/S

        I talked with a guy today that will be parting out a 1976 Regency 98 2
door. I will see the car on Sat. If there is anything anybody wants, i can
look at those parts and get his number to you, or maybe i could just buy the
whole car outright ( if he will do that)and sell the parts cheap to cover the
cost of the motor. I got his number just to find out about his motor he is
selling. The motor from this car a 455 with trans ( th400?) for $100. I think
i will get it. He said i can hear it run. I have not checked 442.com to see
about that year big block, but i think ANY big block will do. I eventually
plan to that motor in a 72 Supreme, if i get another one.......SCOTT.......
PS. the car is near Cleveland Ohio

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:24:04 -0500
From: Matt Cremean <creme1ma@cmich.edu>
Subject: Re: cutlass supreme engine offset

John Carri wrote:
> 
> 
>    3) Anyone know WHY the engine is offset to the left in these
> models?  Was it for improved weight distribution or something? One
> would think offsetting the engine would worsen lateral weight
> distribution.

I was told that it was for ride purposes. That it created a better ride
in those cars. ???????

>    4) A beginners question - what was the stock automatic transmission
> in a '72 Olds Cutlass with the 350/4bbl engine? A TH350 or a TH400?
> (I'm new to Oldsmobiles and GM cars in general.)

a TH350. Those were used behind most GM small blocks and TH400's were
used behind most big blocks. These are interchangeable, it's just that
the transes are more suited to their respectible motors. 

- -- 
***********
Matt Cremean
mailto:creme1ma@cmich.edu
***************************
1973 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme (350 V-8 4 bbl)
1975 Oldsmobile Cutlass S (250 I-6 1 bbl)
1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass S (350 V-8 2 bbl)
1983 Ch*vrolet C*price (305 V-8 4 bbl)
*******************************************
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/
*******************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 21:20:11 -0600
From: "mbloomer" <mbloomer@gateway.net>
Subject: Re: Re:8000 rpm [more bench racing]

>As i said I'm no expert, and i don't want to piss anyone off. Were just
bench racing here,


Fully agree

>but... I have my doubts that even a w-31 head can match the flow of some of
the
>aftermarket SB Ch*vy heads. Hell, i doubt a good "C" or "F" head could
match some of the
>better aftermarket sb Ch*vy heads.


Fully disagree.  None of the Olds heads would be worth anything without some
serious work.  My point is that the potential is there.  All the sb ch*by
heads I've
seen still run close to the same size ports.  The Olds ports are bigger
which
would give you more room to expand.  You could serioulsly hog out a set of
say, 5 heads, cut back the divider, and use your newfound foundry knowledge
gained on the list to fill the crossover.  The largest valves I have seen
aftermarket
for the sb ch*by is 2.10/1.625" and those don't even come out of the box
that
way.  90% have 2.02/160" which an Olds beats easily.  Done right the Olds
heads have the potential to be more than enough.

> Also, on another note, the diesel block would be the way to go, but the
455 piston can't
>be used. With a gas 350 rod, the 425 piston will work, but the 455 has a
different
>compression height than the 350&425. The type of effort i'm talking about
here would be
>much better off with a light weight piston anyway.
> I wonder if any of the single plane sb intakes would flow enough to match
the "C" head???
>

Don't have a tech book in front of me with all the specs but I know that
when
my 350 was .030 over and ate a piston I put 455 STD bore pistons in it.
That
came out to something like .068 over but the compression hieght matched
up with the block.  As far as the single plane goes I don't think that would
matter as much as the carb.  We talking Dominator territory here?  We
could always be wild and fabricate a sheetmetal tunnel ram and put two
Qjets on it!  Karl can do the tuning ;-)

Has anyone put any thought into my idea of decking the block past the hieght
of the pistons?  This would give you your highest CR and negate the effect
of the thick head gaskets (you would take that thickness out of the deck).

It IS fun.
Mike B
mbloomer@gateway.net
ICQ# 19113713
72 Cutlass S (RIP)
68 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:35:46 -0500
From: "Frederick Nissen" <FSNissen@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: cutlass supreme engine offset

Modern terminology  is NVH (noise, vibration and harshness).  Offset engine
mounting reduce transmission of vibration to the rest of the car.

Regards,
Fred

- -----Original Message-----
From: Matt Cremean <creme1ma@cmich.edu>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Tuesday, December 15, 1998 10:20 PM
Subject: Re: cutlass supreme engine offset


>John Carri wrote:
>>
>>
>>    3) Anyone know WHY the engine is offset to the left in these
>> models?  Was it for improved weight distribution or something? One
>> would think offsetting the engine would worsen lateral weight
>> distribution.
>
>I was told that it was for ride purposes. That it created a better ride
>in those cars. ???????
>
>>    4) A beginners question - what was the stock automatic transmission
>> in a '72 Olds Cutlass with the 350/4bbl engine? A TH350 or a TH400?
>> (I'm new to Oldsmobiles and GM cars in general.)
>
>a TH350. Those were used behind most GM small blocks and TH400's were
>used behind most big blocks. These are interchangeable, it's just that
>the transes are more suited to their respectible motors.
>
>--
>***********
>Matt Cremean
>mailto:creme1ma@cmich.edu
>***************************
>1973 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme (350 V-8 4 bbl)
>1975 Oldsmobile Cutlass S (250 I-6 1 bbl)
>1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass S (350 V-8 2 bbl)
>1983 Ch*vrolet C*price (305 V-8 4 bbl)
>*******************************************
>http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/
>*******************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:37:17 -0500
From: "Frederick Nissen" <FSNissen@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: maybe 76/ Regency parts F/S

Would be a J head 455 with EGR.  For $100.00 - GO FOR IT.  Great deal.
Regards,
Fred
- -----Original Message-----
From: OLDS44272@aol.com <OLDS44272@aol.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Tuesday, December 15, 1998 10:16 PM
Subject: maybe 76/ Regency parts F/S


>        I talked with a guy today that will be parting out a 1976 Regency
98 2
>door. I will see the car on Sat. If there is anything anybody wants, i can
>look at those parts and get his number to you, or maybe i could just buy
the
>whole car outright ( if he will do that)and sell the parts cheap to cover
the
>cost of the motor. I got his number just to find out about his motor he is
>selling. The motor from this car a 455 with trans ( th400?) for $100. I
think
>i will get it. He said i can hear it run. I have not checked 442.com to see
>about that year big block, but i think ANY big block will do. I eventually
>plan to that motor in a 72 Supreme, if i get another one.......SCOTT.......
>PS. the car is near Cleveland Ohio
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:34:02 EST
From: KS7RACING@aol.com
Subject: Re: Why no Victor intake for the Battens?

Dave,

I think it was one of those supply-and-demand things, we can't keep up with
the demand that the C-word engines get.  Having Batten make their own intakes
would be nice, especially since they know just what the intake needs to
optimize the benefits of the heads.  The problem I have is I need a dual-plane
design to give me the power down low and in a v-e-r-y wide band, this is what
it takes to be competitive in SCCA Solo I and II events, where I'd be using
the first engine to be built with aluminum heads.  When I build a dragger, I
know I'd have to get one of Dave Smith's custom jobs, scoop or not :-)

Take Care,
Ken Snyder
Kansas City, Kansas
KS7RACING@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:46:45 EST
From: Gutlass66@aol.com
Subject: Re: Olds and F-Bodies

They never did, I don't think. BUT....I am getting my uncles 1979 Camaro,
putting an Olds 350/350 combo, shaving all the chevy badges and the bowties,
and putting rockets and oldsbadges. Its giong to have SS2 wheels , etc etc,
its not gunna be a chevy anymore
Kelly
http://kellys-oldsmobile.iscool.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 23:07:29 -0500
From: Gasman24 <stulk@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: 

The CC-IROC-SS site is 2 hits from 1,000. Who feels lucky?
> 
> Have a Happy and Safe Holiday Season!
> -----Regards,
> 
> Oh well I missed it by 15, what may I ask did the "lucky" # 1,000 recieve?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 23:16:36 -0500
From: "Poppy30" <Poppy30@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: cutlass supreme engine offset

THE ENGINE IS OFFSET TO THE RIGHT, NOT THE LEFT. RIGHT AND LEFT ARE
DETERMINED FROM  DRIVER POSITION SITTING IN CAR. IT IS ONLY 1 INCH TO THE
RIGHT. I HAVE A 71 SUPREME 350 THAT I AM PUTTING A 455 IN, AND HAVE BEEN
DEALLING WITH THIS FOR AWHILE. I TALKED TO JOE MONDELLO AND HE SAID YOU HAVE
TO MOVE THE ENGINE BACK OVER, BUT HE COULD NOT TELL ME HOW TO DO THIS, JUST
THAT IT HAS BEEN DONE.I HAVE SEVERAL DIFFERENT FRAME BRACKETS, SO WHEN THE
TIME COMES FOR THE TRANSPLANT, ICAN HOPEFULLY GET IT IN CENTER.NO ONE MAKES
HEADERS FOR THESE VEHICLES, I CALLED ALL OF THEM. BOUGHT THE HOOKERS,WISH ME
LUCK.....
- -----Original Message-----
From: John Carri <jcarri@alesis1.usa.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Tuesday, December 15, 1998 8:49 PM
Subject: cutlass supreme engine offset



Hi all,
       I discovered recently that some model year Cutlass Supremes and
Cutlass S's had the engine mounted offset to the left of the car
centreline by about two inches, making header clearance, sparkplug
access, etc, very tight (esp. with the 455, but even with the 350).
My '72 with 350-4bbl V8 appears to fit the description, as Heddman
lists in its header application footnotes "will not fit Cutlass
Supreme and Cutlass S models".

    My questions:

   1) Does anyone make a 1 5/8" or similar small-tube header that fits
an Olds 350 in a 72' Supreme or S model?   Anyone have experence with
how hard an install this is?

   2) How hard would it be to move the engine to the same location as
regular Cutlass and 442 models?  What parts would be required?  (is it
just different motor mounts that bolt in, or is welding and torching
required.)

   3) Anyone know WHY the engine is offset to the left in these
models?  Was it for improved weight distribution or something? One
would think offsetting the engine would worsen lateral weight
distribution.

   4) A beginners question - what was the stock automatic transmission
in a '72 Olds Cutlass with the 350/4bbl engine? A TH350 or a TH400?
(I'm new to Oldsmobiles and GM cars in general.)

   Much appreciate any info on this!


- -John Carri

'72 Olds Cutlass Supreme (350/4bbl , auto)    (my daily driver)
'73 Plymouth Roadrunner  (340/4bbl, 727 auto) (a work in progress)


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:35:27 -0600
From: Matthew Bremmer <bremmer@sgi.com>
Subject: Re: Aligning a door

> Also if you have "play" in the door,, if you can raise the door up while its
> open, then you need to replace the pins and bushings, that is a simple job
> with 2 people or a floor jack placed under an open door with a piece of wood
> and a towel protecting the lower part of the door, just make sure you 

I know you wrote this a while ago.  But I have this problem with my
drivers side door.  Would you go to Napa and get new pins and bushings
or the dealership?  Also how do you replace the pin and bushing.  I
would greatly appreciate a response.  Thanks in advance.

Matt

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 23:29:03 EST
From: CarJackTX@aol.com
Subject: Re: maybe 76/ Regency parts F/S

I installed a 75 Delta 88 455 in my 71 Cutlass, no problems

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 21:51:32 -0700
From: Oldsmagnet <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Re: 8000 rpm [Big Guns, now...]

> aftermarket SB Ch*vy heads. Hell, i doubt a good "C" or "F" head could match 
some of the
> better aftermarket sb Ch*vy heads.
>  It may be a oxy-moron, but what I'm talking about is a SERIOUS high RPM 
drag strip effort
> on a budget.

OK, Ok...  If we're now dragging the aftermarket into the story, let's not
forget about our Edelbrock heads we've finally gotten access to...  I have it 
on
good authority that these things can be made to flow damn near a tennis 
ball... 
Budget?  Well, if we're looking at "SERIOUS" high RPM, throw the budget out the
window.  Of course, by ~SERIOUS~ I'd envision figures of 10K and higher. 
Considerring the cost of normal head work, porting, valves, milling, etc. the
Edelbrock isn't much of a jump.  While the stock bottom end on most Olds's is
plenty strong, forged rods being stock, and nodular cranks not too tough to
locate, 7K plus isn't too much to ask of it.  I took my 350, balanced, stock N
crank, rods, and heads, and an Offy dual-port intake.  I never dyno'd it, but
the tach went over 8K several times.  No way to fully test the accuracy of it,
but with the 2.29's, stock tires, and accurate speedo, I'd shift out of first
around 80~85.  Highest was estimated around 95 (Needle disappears, ya know...) 
Sure, I ended up bending a couple pushrods, and tapped a couple valves, but the
pistons, rods, and crank are all still in great shape.  Oh, the pistons were 
not
forged, or anything fancy like that.  The motor was built for high speed,
mainly.  That's it.  Given the choice, based upon my experience, I'll take the
low-end torque anyday, but there's definately capability of high revs in those
motors.  

FWIW...


Oldsmagnet - Charley Buehner @ Sidney Montana |\      |-------|   
mailto:buehner@lyrea.com To mail direct to me |/\|=|  |   |   |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner See my homepage |\ |=|  |   |   |
http://members.tripod.com/~Oldsmagnet Mine too|<||=|  |   |   |
     "I SEEK YOU!"  ICQ # 20418760            |/ |=|  |  / \  |
http://cyberglyphs.com/gbody/ G-Body ListHome |\/|=|  | / | \ |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner/listfaq.htm     |/      |___|___|

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 23:52:22 -0500
From: "<GJC> CC-IROC-SS" <gjcouse@francomm.com>
Subject: GJC

I was just thinking about the true value aspects of our hobbies.

When we undertake the task to love our machines to life and health, non
seeing others exclaim, "you'll never get your money out of it".   Huummmmmm.

Now, let's look at this. First of we see the car, that sparks the thought,
producing the u~foric dreams and so on. Don't trip out on me here Karl...

To put this situation in proper financial 3D (Time) perspective. Our cars in
their day were the upper crust. a $3,500 (+) new car then are today's
$20.000 (+) new cars. Not comparing the progression of mechanical
technology. Let's put that aside for a moment.

Let's put an price of $2,000 on a restorable yesterday car today. We plunge
say $3,500 in good metal and paint work to make her new. Another say $3,500
to rebuild a far better than new driveline. Say another $1,000 in interior
perfection's beyond any factory ability. Oh yes and another say $1,500 in
everything from bumper chroming to brake lines. Hum, I've got $11,500 in
this car that today would have sold new for $20,000 (+). Not only that, It's
near brand new too. In fact, it's far better than it ever was when it was
new.

I also own a piece of tangible, real history.
A history I'm proud to be a part of.
I've skinned every knuckle I have.
I've tracked through the parts yards in poring rain.
I've changed transmissions laying in the mud.
I've massaged life back into the near dead.
I've attended grand events I likely never would have.
I've met better friends than I've ever known.
I've fulfilled a dream I had since youth, yet now am living.
I ride the machine feeling like a million bucks.
This machine owns my blood, sweat, tears, and respect.
(add another few hundred experiences here)

Can you put a $$ on all that good time you have been through?

I can't. I can say that I feel far, far richer in every aspect that matters
in life, than I ever would have been without following my dreams.   That's
priceless.

And I still saved $8,500 over that new 99.

Like I said, I was just reflecting.

Have a Happy and Safe Holiday Season!
- -----Regards,

Gary J. Couse
Couse Custom

Custom Conversion Prototype:
CC-IROC-SS-#001 =  "Quincy"
http://www.CC-IROC-SS.com
Send Project Questions To:
mailto:info@CC-IROC-SS.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 00:01:10 -0500
From: "<GJC> CC-IROC-SS" <gjcouse@francomm.com>
Subject: RE: 

Well # 1,000 didn't win a new CC-IROC-SS as was leaked. But 
#1,000,000? Humm

- -----Regards,

Gary J. Couse
Couse Custom

Custom Conversion Prototype: 
CC-IROC-SS-#001 =  "Quincy"
http://www.CC-IROC-SS.com
Send Project Questions To:
mailto:info@CC-IROC-SS.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:08:50 -0700
From: Oldsmagnet <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: CC-IROC's visitors

" CC-IROC-SS" wrote:
> 
> Well # 1,000 didn't win a new CC-IROC-SS as was leaked. But
> #1,000,000? Humm
> 
Hmm...  Wonder how long my "Reload" button will take to wear out....  ;)

Hey Gary, not to bi$@h or anything, but how's about sticking a subject heading
in there?  T'anks :)

Oldsmagnet - Charley Buehner @ Sidney Montana |\      |-------|   
mailto:buehner@lyrea.com To mail direct to me |/\|=|  |   |   |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner See my homepage |\ |=|  |   |   |
http://members.tripod.com/~Oldsmagnet Mine too|<||=|  |   |   |
     "I SEEK YOU!"  ICQ # 20418760            |/ |=|  |  / \  |
http://cyberglyphs.com/gbody/ G-Body ListHome |\/|=|  | / | \ |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner/listfaq.htm     |/      |___|___|

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 00:04:06 EST
From: LooseCanno@aol.com
Subject: Re: GJC

Damn... that was good!!!!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 00:25:24 EST
From: DrkSole96@aol.com
Subject: Re: cutlass supreme engine offset

In a message dated 98-12-15 23:20:03 EST, you write:

   << 1) Does anyone make a 1 5/8" or similar small-tube header that fits
 an Olds 350 in a 72' Supreme or S model?   Anyone have experence with
 how hard an install this is?>>
Well, according to the Joe Mondello Tech manual Hooker #3101 headers, (3"
collector, 3/4" tubes) will fit with a little work.

    <<2) How hard would it be to move the engine to the same location as
 regular Cutlass and 442 models?  What parts would be required?  (is it
 just different motor mounts that bolt in, or is welding and torching
 required.)>>
 
    <<3) Anyone know WHY the engine is offset to the left in these
 models?  Was it for improved weight distribution or something? One
 would think offsetting the engine would worsen lateral weight
 distribution.>>

 All I can think of is that the motor was moved to make clearance for the
steering shaft.

    <<4) A beginners question - what was the stock automatic transmission
 in a '72 Olds Cutlass with the 350/4bbl engine? A TH350 or a TH400?
 (I'm new to Oldsmobiles and GM cars in general.)>>
TH350

DrkSole96
73 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 00:39:07 -0500
From: "Loris" <loris@tir.com>
Subject: Re: Diesel Question

If I'm not mistaken (and someone correct me if I'm way off) the 350 diesel
and the 350 gas were, essentially the same block.  Diesels demend
considerably more strength in their design due to the higher compression
ratio (somewhere around 20:1) and stress on the block.  I thought I read on
the list at one time that the webs were stiffer in the Olds Diesels.   I
think I recall someone on this list was building a high performance 350 from
an Olds Diesel block.

I think GM stuck their hand in the parts bin back then and pulled out a
turd, then tried to sell it to the public.  The dealerships couldn't give
the cars away.  Those who owned Diesel powered cars most of their lives knew
that it just doesn't work that way.  I have an uncle that put 250,000 miles
on his mid-1980's Mercedes, a Diesel.  Something like this would have been a
huge stretch for Olds (GM) back then.  Aside from a truck, when do you see a
Diesel engine option available on a new Big 3 passenger car?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 00:53:46 EST
From: Joeytada@aol.com
Subject: Re: 700R4 tranny w/not shift (Non Olds)

The TTA was made in 89. I beleive it had the 200 4r just like the GN's

Keith 
also a 91 GMC Syclone owner.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 01:10:36 EST
From: Bbymks4@aol.com
Subject: Re: GJC

               That was very well said, it is something that alot of us are
feeling. I kind
   of have been bitten by the same bug, I seem to be possesed and I won't rest
until 
   I've been ablle to fully restore my car also. All I can say is that it was
very 
  inspirational, and it gave me a little more insight into what all of this is
really all
  about. Thanks alot from Steve M.   and........Happy holidays.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 01:17:15 EST
From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Batten Heads Web Site ???

In a message dated 98-12-15 18:42:53 EST, you write:

<< Yeah, But do they have a web site?
 
 Have a Happy and Safe Holiday Season!
 -----Regards, >>
 <A HREF="http://www.battencorp.com/">Batten Corporation</A>   Here is their
hyperlink or their address is 
http://www.battencorp.com/

W MACHINES

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 01:26:39 EST
From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Subject: Re: cutlass supreme engine offset

In a message dated 98-12-15 20:44:04 EST, you write:

<< Hi all,
        I discovered recently that some model year Cutlass Supremes and 
 Cutlass S's had the engine mounted offset to the left of the car 
 centreline by about two inches, making header clearance, sparkplug 
 access, etc, very tight (esp. with the 455, but even with the 350).  
 My '72 with 350-4bbl V8 appears to fit the description, as Heddman 
 lists in its header application footnotes "will not fit Cutlass 
 Supreme and Cutlass S models". 
 
     My questions:
 
    1) Does anyone make a 1 5/8" or similar small-tube header that fits 
 an Olds 350 in a 72' Supreme or S model?   Anyone have experence with 
 how hard an install this is?
 
    2) How hard would it be to move the engine to the same location as 
 regular Cutlass and 442 models?  What parts would be required?  (is it 
 just different motor mounts that bolt in, or is welding and torching 
 required.)
 
    3) Anyone know WHY the engine is offset to the left in these 
 models?  Was it for improved weight distribution or something? One 
 would think offsetting the engine would worsen lateral weight 
 distribution.
 
    4) A beginners question - what was the stock automatic transmission 
 in a '72 Olds Cutlass with the 350/4bbl engine? A TH350 or a TH400?
 (I'm new to Oldsmobiles and GM cars in general.)
    
    Much appreciate any info on this!
  >>
I beg to differ,  Oldsmobile 70-72 Cutlass frames are the same for hardtop or
Supreme. Wheel base is 112 inches,  The convertable is a boxed frame and also
112 inches.  The Cutlass 4 door and Cutlass Wagon are 116 inches.  THE ENGINES
ARE NOT OFF SET in any of these models.  The only difference is that they make
three different frame engine mounts. They are as follow   250 6 cylinder, 350
and 455 V-8's.  455 engines came with th400 trans and 350 engines came with
th350's.  If you are wanting to use headers that have no cleareance problems
and no modifications done to the car.  Buy the Hooker Comp headers.  They will
fit no problem.  I have scraped and parted out many many 70-72 Oldsmobiles and
I have never seen Offset frame mounts.   

One other thing.  If you want to transplant a 455 engine into a 350 car.
Leave the 350 frame mounts alone and use the 350 motor mounts.  The only
disadvantage to this is that the enigine will set up 3/4 to and 1inch higher,
thats all     

W MACHINES (Mark Prince)
72 442 W-30 race rocket
If you need engine answers, contact the Oldsmobile Street Rockets at
http://members.aol.com/wmachines/site5.html

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 02:07:36 -0600
From: "Peter Landowski" <PETTRIX@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Pre-Paint Metal Treatment

Try power-washing the frame and then painting it with POR. They make a
semi-gloss and a high gloss paint that is great.
Pettrix@prodigy.net

- ----------
> From: Rock Man <rockman20@yahoo.com>
> To: Oldsmobile E-mail Ring <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Subject: Pre-Paint Metal Treatment
> Date: Tuesday, December 15, 1998 2:22 PM
> 
> Okay, how do these people paint a frame with a frame off restoration?
> Do they get the frame down to bare metal? I find this hard to do due
> to the fact of the pits in the frame. Secondly, say a person can't get
> a piece of metal down to shiny metal before applying primer and paint.
> Is there anything that can be put on the metal that will nuetralize
> the rust and fill in the pits? I want to paint the engine compartment
> of my Olds and I would like to paint the frame as well. (At least as
> far back as I can without taking the body off) Is there something that
> I can coat the frame with? 
> 
> Del
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ==
> Rock-Man's Page http://www.angelfire.com/nd/RockMan
> rockman20@yahoo.com
> 1986 Honda Accord DX
> 1983 Honda Big Red 3-wheeler
> 1981 John Deer Snowmobile
> 197? Massey Ferguson Snowmobile
> 1969 Olds Cutlass "S"
> _________________________________________________________
> DO YOU YAHOO!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 01:27:56 -0700
From: "Igor T. '81 DRB 455" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Re: 455 CCC Smog Results

>The engine is a '75 455, bored 0.030" over, ~9:1 compression, Edelbrock
>camshaft, 2.072" intake valves, positive backpressure EGR, and "J" heads
>with some mild port work.  

Which Edelbrock Cam are you running?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 01:33:48 -0700
From: "Igor T. '81 DRB 455" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Re: IGOR READ

>Igor, what is your address?  email address I mean?  My address book deleted
>itself again....


it is igor455@home.com .  Hey, since I am making a new page, do you want me
to include your page as a link.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 01:38:52 -0700
From: "Igor T. '81 DRB 455" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: PISTON FILLING

Okay, with all this talk of 8000 RPM + SB and compression, I have a
question.  CAN WE fill our stock piston dishes to shrink them and hence bump
the CR despite our big chambers (like C heads).  I doubt it since I have not
heard anyone else ask, but provided that the valve lift was not too great
(like on a stock cam) is it not possible or feasible to do this?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 04:42:08 EST
From: SpeedCom@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pre-Paint Metal Treatment

In a message dated 12/16/98
 2:<BR01:<BR38 AM Central Standard Ti, PETTRIX@prodigy.net writes:> Try power-
washing the frame and then painting it with POR. They make a
>  semi-gloss and a high gloss paint that is great.
>  Pettrix@prodigy.net

Peter,

POR? Whazzat?

Carron

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 06:27:59 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: AM Radio is killing me! WTB '76 AM/FM Cassette!

FWIW, there is mention in the latest JWO that Delco AM/FM/cassette units
with ETR and a digital clock from the mid to late 80s full-size wagons are
a direct swap into GM cars back to the mid-70s, with the exception of
changing some connectors. I've seen these radios and they look very nice. 

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 06:29:52 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: UNBOUNCE: Re: Aligning a door

No longer on the list, respond to bremmer@sgi.com if you can assist.

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:	Matthew Bremmer <bremmer@sgi.com>
Subject: Re: Aligning a door

> Also if you have "play" in the door,, if you can raise the door up while its
> open, then you need to replace the pins and bushings, that is a simple job
> with 2 people or a floor jack placed under an open door with a piece of wood
> and a towel protecting the lower part of the door, just make sure you 

I know you wrote this a while ago.  But I have this problem with my
drivers side door.  Would you go to Napa and get new pins and bushings
or the dealership?  Also how do you replace the pin and bushing.  I
would greatly appreciate a response.  Thanks in advance.

Matt

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 05:31:31 -0400
From: Jonathan Parke <jonparke@together.net>
Subject: Re: Heater Blower Relay (a thread off of

>Plus too, on an A/C car, the fan would need to push the air
>through the evaporator too.So that might explain it too.....SCOTT

... another good point.  Thanks.

==

This heater switch thing is just the tip of the iceberg.  I'm customizing
the whole car so therefore I'm replacing and/or re-engineering all the
electrical wiring and components.

There are a zillion details to think of... just to name a few:

* Replace '72 Cutlass column with '84 Cutlass tilt which has column
controls for wiper and cruise
* Retro fit '82 wiper motor ('84 wouldn't fit) and then adapt wiring
* After market cruise control
* Battery in trunk
* Relays for Headlights, Driving & Fog lights etc.
* Audio system w/ amp in trunk
* EFI harness (a mini nightmare of it's own)
* Fuse block from the '84 with pass-through junction block
* Custom dash with aftermarket gauges (I've even made some of my own
indicator light fixtures)
* Gear indicator lights for TH-700R4
* MSD ignition
* In-tank electric fuel pump
* Power seats, windows and convertible top

I scanned the original wiring diagram & made a 3'x4' wall poster.  In a
room next to the garage (which is part of the house) I have a huge bulletin
board with a large outline drawing of the car.  Every electrical device,
switch, bulb etc. is labeled and I'm now in the process of designing the
circuits.  In general I'm using the '72 design as a basic pattern to follow
so I'm not completely re-inventing the wheel.  But there is a lot of new
territory to cover.

The interesting thing about this part of the project (only one aspect of
the frame-off) is that I've had to closely examine how certain functions
were accomplished.  I've also had to get a grip on the effects of things
like voltage drop, current draw, using the ground side etc.  Some things I
can (and should) upgrade from '70s components other remain the same.

So that's why all my anal/compulsive inquiry about things that the heater
switch.

I've been messing with electrical stuff all my life, but this is definitely
one of the biggest challenges I've tried.  It's not that any one item by
itself is that big of a mystery.  The challenge is bringing all the
different systems and considerations together and then fitting it all
neatly in a relatively small space.  I find it's one thing to repair and/or
replace something.  But to design and build from scratch on a large scale
is a whole new ball game.  For instance wiring the new fuse block with it's
firewall pass through is a trip.

So thanks again for the collective knowledge/opinion/experience,

jp

BTW  any guesses on how many feet of wire it takes to completely wire up a
car?  Don't know myself, but will have a pretty good idea come spring.


>>
>>> Thanks Andy and Mike for thinking this through with me,
>>
>>If you get stuck again, just ship us the car and we'll take a look.
>>
>>-- Andy
>
>
>Just ship it anyway.  We'll find something to fix
>
>Mike B

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 05:53:46 -0600
From: "mbloomer" <mbloomer@gateway.net>
Subject: Re: PISTON FILLING

Interesting question but I would say no.  When everyone was talking
about filling the heat riser's with aluminum they mentioned several
times to do it in one continueous pour.  This is because (correct me
if I'm wrong here) but if you interupt the pour instead of one piece
you end up with two pieces.  So if you try to add material to a piston
dish there is nothing to hold the extra metal in place and it won't
bond with the original piston.

Mike B
mbloomer@gateway.net
ICQ# 19113713
72 Cutlass S (RIP)
68 Cutlass Supreme

>
>Okay, with all this talk of 8000 RPM + SB and compression, I have a
>question.  CAN WE fill our stock piston dishes to shrink them and hence
bump
>the CR despite our big chambers (like C heads).  I doubt it since I have
not
>heard anyone else ask, but provided that the valve lift was not too great
>(like on a stock cam) is it not possible or feasible to do this?
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 05:56:40 -0600
From: "mbloomer" <mbloomer@gateway.net>
Subject: Re: Heater Blower Relay (a thread off of

What kind of EFI setup you going to be running?  Custom?  Modified
production?  Want details!

Mike B
mbloomer@gateway.net
ICQ# 19113713
72 Cutlass S (RIP)
68 Cutlass Supreme

>
>This heater switch thing is just the tip of the iceberg.  I'm customizing
>the whole car so therefore I'm replacing and/or re-engineering all the
>electrical wiring and components.
>
>There are a zillion details to think of... just to name a few:
>

<snip>
>* EFI harness (a mini nightmare of it's own)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 07:15:05 EST
From: MVan442@aol.com
Subject: appraisals

    I need information on the best way to insure my olds, with out getting
ripped off

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 07:20:24 EST
From: DKlauber@aol.com
Subject: Re: Arizona Junkyards

I live in Phoenix, so if I can help you I will try.  Pretty new to area, but I
am in the Olds Club of AZ so if I can't help you, I should be able to get
someone that can.
David OCA # 30416
70 442 W-30 Conv.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 07:55:45 EST
From: W30442CS@aol.com
Subject: Re: GJC

correct, and to the point!   well put!       steven, w30422cs@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 08:09:23 EST
From: SpeedCom@aol.com
Subject: Re: PISTON FILLING

In a message dated 12/16/98
 5:<BR55:<BR54 AM Central Standard Ti, mbloomer@gateway.net writes:> So if you
try to add material to a piston
>  dish there is nothing to hold the extra metal in place and it won't
>  bond with the original piston.

This could be done by welding.

Carron

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 08:02:49 -0400
From: Jonathan Parke <jonparke@together.net>
Subject: EFI was Re: Heater Blower blah blah blah

>What kind of EFI setup you going to be running?  Custom?  Modified
>production?  Want details!
>
>Mike B

The motor:  Edelbrock Torker on a 425 w/ Edelbrock Heads, 9.5-9.75
compression & hydraulic cam (specs to be decided soon), roller rockers and
other basic high performance modifications

The EFI:  Port Injected, Bosh injectors, closed loop, Accel ECU, custom
throttle body w/ TH-700-R4 TV cable kick down, custom harness (I didn't
design the system but from a prototype that was sent me during the first
stages of this project I made a very comprehensive diagram of how I wanted
the harness set up & if anybody wants to see a copy drop me a private
e-mail & I'll send a JPEG to you), programmable fuel curve etc. w/ laptop,
full range of sensors.

When I was looking and asking about EFI several roads lead to Rob at
http://www.force-EFI.com/.  Principally, he was recommended to me by Mark
Hammel at Accel who graciously took major amounts of time with me and
discussed EFI in detail.  So eventually after a lot of discussion with Rob
at Force Fuel I sent him my Torker and he's putting the system together.

I suppose I could have done it myself and saved a couple of hundred bucks.
I'm all for saving $$ but sometimes I'd rather let somebody do what they do
best rather than crash around on an expensive learning curve (and probably
spend the money I thought I would save).  Plus with a major customization
on a frame-off I've got plenty of other things to do.  Like right now with
rewiring the electrics.

Rob's really knows EFI.  He's also really busy and so he gets out there
sometimes.  Best to call between 9:00 - 10:00 am if you want to talk.  I'm
trying convince him there's a good Olds market out there, so if you do call
tell him I sent you.

jp

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:00:42 -0500
From: tchurchill@draper.com (Timothy A. Churchill)
Subject: Re: Olds and F-Bodies

Thomas P. Smith Asks the Question:

> Given my tendency to indulge in obscure information, I have a curious
> question for those more versed in Olds history than I, which isn't
> saying a whole lot.  Anyhoo, did Olds ever consider making an F-body?
> If so, are there any pictures, on the 'Net or otherwise, of such a
> beast?

I don't know if Oldsmobile corporate officially "considered" their own
take on F-bodies, but...

Many moons ago -- okay, 1982 -- I bought my first brand new car outta
college, a C*m*r* Berlinetta.  First year of the 3rd generation F-Body.
Custom targa top.  Anyways, that Christmas, at my grandparents Xmas party
they used to host w/business associates & such attending, I had a
conversation with a gent who was some sort of rep for Olds in the Northeast,
or Atlantic states region, or sumthin'.  DOn't remember his name, natch.
Could ask me grandad, I suppose, if someone wants to know.

During the party, I proudly showed him my car, with its almost convertible top,
and he started  talking about all the neat things he (or Olds) would *love*
to do with an F-platform, if only GM would let them have it.

Alas, it was, is, and will remain -- I just read how GM isn't goning to can
the F-body after the '99 model year after all -- a Ponchrolet product only.

Now, if Olds -- instead of Cadillac, as planned for the '99? '00? model year --
was allowed to use the C5 platform.... yowsa!



Tim Churchill  tchurchill@draper.com  OCA #30327  Framingham, MA
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, new a.k.a 'Old Gold'
'98 VW Passat GLS Wagon, a.k.a. 'der Kinderwagen'

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 06:24:38 PST
From: "jason shreve" <jasonshreve@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: 700R4 tranny w/not shift (Non Olds)

NO!!  The only turbo t/a are the pace car t/a's and possible the 
anniversary (late 80's not 79).  A GTA is similar to an IROC.  Top of 
the Line.

arent you talking about the turbocharged v6 transam?  that is
>what a GTA is, isnt it?  


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 07:29:09 -0700
From: Chris Zimmerman <CZimmerman@KVOA.com>
Subject: Vista Cruiser tailgate

Has anyone found a supplier for Vista Cruiser tailgate weather
stripping? Both for the tailgate to body, and for the tailgate to glass.

Chris
'67 442
'69 Vista Cruiser
'57 Ch*vy

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 08:42:52 -0600 (CST)
From: hitson@i1.net (roger hitson)
Subject: Re:8000 rpm [more bench racing]

David Brode wrote a bunch of interesting stuff, and:

>  I think the "C" head would be the only way to go on a  serious effort, 
budget drag
>motor.

I'm going to lower my mask & reveal my complete ignorance here. Please 
'splain to me why a big block head would be so superior to a well-worked 
small block head. Is this purely a matter of port size?

BTW, I tend to agree with most of what you've said.

roger hitson

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:37:57 -0500
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: 68 442 convert found?

The header panel is very rusted...
________

Hey, Greg Rollin, Steve Kinney, et al.  How come nobody repros convertible
header bows for A-bodies?  It seems to me that with four divisions' worth
of A-body converts out there, there has to be a market for this.  Heck,
they repro the 67-69 F-body header bows, and I would think there are fewer
of these cars out there that A-bodies.  _Used_ header bows run in the $300
to $450 range (which I find outragous).  This sure sounds like a market
waiting to be tapped.

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:02:18 EST
From: RICH6986@aol.com
Subject: Re: GJC

That was beautiful man.  Now if only I can get my girlfriend to understand it
that way.
									Rich

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 08:07:49 -0700
From: Roger Peterson <rkp@uswest.net>
Subject: Re: Mondello porting?

I can only tell you that I'm having a set of Edelbrock aluminum heads flowed 
and
match ported (not by Mondello) and it will cost me only slightly more than you
mentioned for parts and labor.  The Edelbrock heads are rough out of the box,
but they make good power with some TLC (according to my machinist/builder).
Roger:)  rkp@uswest.net

Ken wrote:

> Has anyone coughed up the 1900 for a set of competion ported "C" heads from
> Mondello?  I'm thinking of buying a set and was wondering if they are really
> worth it.  Dick Miller said I would be ahead of the game if I bought a set
> of ported cast iron heads rather than run a stock set of the new aluminum
> ones.  Any thoughts?
>
> Ken
> olds442@en.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 07:14:58 PST
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: AM Radio is killing me! WTB '76 AM/FM Cassette!

> FWIW, there is mention in the latest JWO that Delco AM/FM/cassette
> units with ETR and a digital clock from the mid to late 80s
> full-size wagons are a direct swap into GM cars back to the mid-70s,
> with the exception of changing some connectors. I've seen these
> radios and they look very nice. 

The only example I have in my garage toasted its innards some time
back; I saved it in case I suddenly acquired a knowledge of 
electronics and figured out how to fix it. If anyone wants it, it's
in Wilmette, IL and you can pick it up for free. Be advised that it's
dead and it's smells bad.  :-)

I would be more optimistic about the connectors; they're dead-nuts
standard over most of the '70's and early '80's. You're more likely
to need to add connectors to the _car_, since the original AM unit
probably didn't have more than a couple speakers up front. Those
will plug right into the same sockets on the Delco stereo that the
AM unit had (one for power/ground/dial-lamp/power-antenna, the other 
for the one or two front speakers); the one you'll be missing is the
rear pair plug, which you can cut out of any junk car of that era.
If installing a digital ETR unit needing a memory power supply, you'll
need another power feed from someplace like the lighter circuit which
will connect to a separate connector that comes out the back of the
ETR on a short pigtail lead.

- -- Andy


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:13:11 -0500
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: cutlass supreme engine offset

 All I can think of is that the motor was moved to make clearance for the
steering shaft.
________

OH NO!  Here we go again!

Like the search for the mythical solid main web 403, I'll offer a reward
for anyone who can provide concrete proof (not a quote from Joe M, or
worse, a repeat of the item in Hot Rod or Car Craft, whichever it was) that
the Supreme engines were offset.  Are the motor mounts different between a
Supreme and a Cutlass S?  (No)  Is the steering shaft different?  (No)  Is
the tranny crossmember different (as it would need to be to make up for
this offset)?  (No)  Are the exhaust pipes different?  (No)  So where is
this difference evidenced?

Does someone out there have a parts book that covers the 70-72 cars (mine
only goes to 69)?  Look up the following for a Supreme (57 body style) and
a Cutlass S (87 body style) and please tell us if the part numbers are the
same:

Frame (or better yet, the service replacement front frame section with
crossmember)
Frame mounts for engine (be sure to pick a common engine size)
Rubber motor mounts
Trans crossmember
Steering shaft
Steering center link (would need to be different if the box were offset)

Thanks

Joe (the skeptic) Padavano
padavano.joe@oribital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #1669
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