Please respond to oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
To:	oldsmobile-digest@chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #1674


oldsmobile-digest     Saturday, December 19 1998     Volume 01 : Number 1674



1970 Olds Delta 88
Re: W29 Option
200-4R Experience
RE: W29 Option
Signing off for a while (Was Re: '99 Olds Nats??)
Power Locks?
C&M's Hours
You are all ignoring Karl
Re: Signing off for a while (Was Re: '99 Olds Nats??)
Re: TH 200-4R experience needed
Re: If they have Vista-Cruisers...we should have some too
Re: '99 Olds Nats??
Other codes for 1972 Olds
Re: W29 Option
Re: Power Locks?
Re: '99 Olds Nats??
Re: Signing off for a while (Was Re: '99 Olds Nats??)
Re: Emissions
Re: Are my 7a heads good for performance?
Re: 200-4R Experience
307 CAMS
re; w-29 option
Oldsmobile POS for sale
Re: re; w-29 option
Re: Oldsmobile POS for sale
Re: '99 Olds Nats??
Re: Oldsmobile POS for sale
Re: Oldsmobile POS for sale
Re: Oldsmobile POS for sale/ for entire list!!!
Re: Oldsmobile POS for sale
Re: Oldsmobile POS for sale
The Cutlass isnt for sale, but the Super 88 is
Re: passing emissions tests (long post)
Re: don't believe (was offset)
RE: Oldsmobile POS for sale
A/C Wiring Part II
Re: cutlass supreme engine offset (correction)
Re: 200-4R Experience
Re: cutlass supreme engine offset (correction)
Re: cutlass supreme engine offset (correction)
Re: re; w-29 option
Re: Oldsmobile POS for sale
Re: passing emissions tests (long post)
Re: re; w-29 option
Re: A/C Wiring Part II
even MORE bench racing [was 8000 rpm 350]
Re: Oldsmobile POS for sale
Re: re; w-29 option
Heating and Turn Signal
Re: You are all ignoring Karl
Re: ENGINE OFFSET
Re: Other codes for 1972 Olds
Re: even MORE bench racing [was 8000 rpm 350]
Re: A/C Wiring Part II

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 14:11:02 -0500
From: "Pearce, Greg" <GAP@filetek.com>
Subject: 1970 Olds Delta 88

A friend is considering selling his 1970 Olds Delta 88.  It's completely
original and stock.  Low miles, real clean.  It has no power windows etc.  It
does have auto trans, power steering, power brakes, A/C.  He's the second 
owner,
and I know the first owner (the guys grandfather, who only drove it on Sundays
;).  I think it's a 2 door, 455 cid engine.  Factory AM/FM.

Anyone know what this car is generally worth?  

Thanks - 

Greg

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 14:29:50 -0500
From: dgerow@student.stonehill.edu (Daniel R. Gerow)
Subject: Re: W29 Option

I'm a bit confused about this as well.  On the build sheet to my '69 442, it is
listed as the W-29 option with an asterik next to it.  Someone from the list
explained this to me a bit ago, but they were somewhat unsure.  Is this just 
the
designation for the 442 badging, suspension, and whatnot?  Thanks  and happy
holidays.

Dan Gerow

'69 442
'71 Cutlas Supreme

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 13:45:34 -0600
From: "Drusch, Wayne (Human Resources & Risk Mgmt)" 
<wayne_drusch@co.harris.tx.us>
Subject: 200-4R Experience

 Remember reading in some magazine article that if a lock-up converter in a
200-4r is not hooked up to work excessive heat builds up in the tranny.
Something to do with fluid circulation through parts of the lock up
mechanism. I think I saved that article and will try to find it. That is
probably why a separate non-lock-up is made--to avoid this heating problem.
Still seems like an interesting conversion to consider to replace my leaky
TH-350.

E. Wayne Drusch
71 Cutlass Conv.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 14:51:29 -0500
From: "Semantana Chris (ONEX)" <SemantanaC@tce.com>
Subject: RE: W29 Option

> I'm a bit confused about this as well.  On the build sheet to my '69 442,
> it is
> listed as the W-29 option with an asterik next to it.  Someone from the
> list
> 
OK, I'll provide some info and I'm sure someone will fill in the rest.
Stepping back a bit first, the original question was what was the W-29
option as it pertained to the 72 model year.  In 72 the W-29 ~was~ the
4-4-2.  Unlike previous years, you could check the vin to determine if a car
was a 4-4-2 or Cutlass, but in 72 the 4-4-2 went back to an option.  The
only way in 72 to tell by the vin if you had a 4-4-2 was if it contained an
X for the engine which designated the W-30 package, which by default gave
you the 4-4-2.
As for 69, I'm not sure exactly what the W-29 option was, but I do know the
4-4-2 had its own specific vin (I believe 44 as the 2nd and 3rd digits).  In
69 was the W-29 option the FE-2 suspension?

Chris Smetana
Terre Haute, IN
http://www.abcs.com/chris

1969 W-31
1969 4-4-2 parts car
plus others

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:51:39 PST
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: Signing off for a while (Was Re: '99 Olds Nats??)

> Karl is going to drive SOM down to Dallas From Chicago.
> Have recently proposed a Chi-town area caravan to the Dallas-Ft.Worth
> area for the nats (taking a full week off!).
>
> Andy Green ain't goin' (a moment of silence please!).

I haven't _died_, Karl...

Okay, I was going to put this off a few more days but I'd probably
forget to say anything at all in the confusion of the coming days,
so I'll waste the bandwidth now instead, if y'all will indulge me...

I'm signing off for a couple weeks or so while me, my wife and my
two sons somehow summon up all of our courage and most of our
finances (no, most of our courage and _all_ of our finances) to
finally close on the dream house we've been building for most of
the past year out in McHenry, IL. As houses go, it's pretty much
your typical new house, no stunning architecture to speak of, but
it does have a nice big driveway and... a three-car garage.  :-)

Parking for nine cars!

Eighteen if I stack them!

27 if I stack them on end!

My wife wanted a fireplace; I wanted a three-car garage. I think
we would have been happy living in a three-car garage with a 
fireplace, but there was some picky requirement about having to
provide bedrooms for the kids, and before you know it there was
entire house attached.

So this is it; in the next few days I'll quietly sign off at some
point and hopefully reappear around mid-January. Dealing with all
the builders, bankers and lawyers gets pretty scary but somehow I
know we're going to get through this. This is the sort of thing
you scrimp and save for years-- hell, _decades_ to get, and hope and
pray all along that some unforeseen circumstance doesn't snatch it
away at the last minute, and now we are at that last minute, so
wish us luck. Happy Holidays, and we'll talk to you next year.

- -- Andy

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 13:41:54 -0800
From: ojo@swbell.net
Subject: Power Locks?

I want to install power door locks on my 72 Cutlass S, I already have
power windows. Where does the switch power switch go? 

$Rog

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 15:04:10 -0500
From: Jim or Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Subject: C&M's Hours

Happy Holidays to all

	We will be closing the shop from the 22nd of December to the 30th of
December for the holidays. All shipments on pieces ordered before the 21st.
will be shipped prior to Xmas. Orders received after that will be shipped
on the 30th when we get back. Thanks. Everyone be careful during the
holidays, we want to see you back on the list.

Jim Chermack
C&M Classic Parts 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 15:13:11 EST
From: KarlAune@aol.com
Subject: You are all ignoring Karl

D. yeager confirmed it.

Although Karl has tried tp save bandwidth by mentioning it only one in a great
while, it did not matter, you all went your merry ways anyway.

Well, here's the bottom line.

Those that read and understand the Performance Professor at Racermall.com will
dust the pitiful few that do not heed this messsage.

.  <------!!!

Karl does grow tired of trying to urge others to learn about how their engines
REALLY work and how to improve performance.

But some people are used to being slow....

SOM

&KA

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 15:20:26 EST
From: KarlAune@aol.com
Subject: Re: Signing off for a while (Was Re: '99 Olds Nats??)

In a message dated 98-12-18 14:55:23 EST, you write:

<< So this is it; in the next few days I'll quietly sign off at some
 point and hopefully reappear around mid-January.  >>

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

The comet will hit at the end of December and during the semi-nuclear winter
we wil all be bereft of the Andy Green wit.

Geeez.
Its enough to make Karl unsubscr*be.




................nah!




SOM

&KA

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 15:32:14 -0500
From: "Arnold, W D" <w.d.arnold@lmco.com>
Subject: Re: TH 200-4R experience needed

I've got 2 of the 200 metric transmissions, with lock up conv but NO
overdrive. Came std. in 86 bonneville and most(except OD cars) all midsized
GM cars then.
I think these TH200-C metrics are no good for even a V-6. I had to change 3
in three diff GM cars in 3 years and all had less than 100,000 miles. plus
they were behind 229 and 231 V-6's.
   
I'm sorry to get away from your Q  Mike B.

I've replaced 2 of the TH200-R4's with 350's thinking I was 'improving' the
car. Was I wrong?
I *think* the best to worst order for durability would be TH400, 700R4,
Powerglide(Jetaway), TH350, 200R4, and TH200met.
Ideas?

I'm waiting to hear about the build-up too Mike, So I think I'll shut up and
yield the remainder of my time to the some of the tranny vets.

Thanks alot,
PS. Will Bill Clinton be tried as an adult? 

Donny Arnold
w.d.arnold@lmco.com

72  Olds 442  
41 Chevy 
63 Chevy Truck

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 13:30:42 -0700
From: "Larry Pegg" <nurelic@primenet.com>
Subject: Re: If they have Vista-Cruisers...we should have some too

I might be interested give me a reason :-).


- -----Original Message-----
From: Steve Elijah <selijah@eznet.com>
To: olds list <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Thursday, December 17, 1998 7:53 PM
Subject: If they have Vista-Cruisers...we should have some too


>Ahh there is a market for my VC! I need to strike while the heat is on.
>Anybody on the list a military procurement officer?
>
>72 Vista-Cruiser 350cid
>
>\\Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 16:40:35 -0600
>From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
>Subject: Re: No Oldses in Iraq
>
>They use Vista Cruisers to haul Scuds around, faster than the Ruskie
>trucks. Harder to hit.
>Lou
> From: Timothy A. Churchill <tchurchill@draper.com>
>> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>> Subject: Re: No Oldses in Iraq
>> Ray C. Observes:
>>
>> > Wow, I'm real glad that none of those Iraqie's have 442's or anything!
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 15:14:38 -0600 (CST)
From: blue442@webtv.net
Subject: Re: '99 Olds Nats??

Ooh ooh, I wanna go see the pretty oldsmobiles, especially the ones with
large angry motors.  The same motors that had a bad childhood and are
now psychotic and on steroids.

What can I expect to find in the way of parts or memorabilia?

Welcome in advance to TX.  The metro area folks aren't quite as friendly
and laid back as other Texans, but they're not too bad.

Jeff Carter
Lubbock TX
blue442@webtv.net 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 14:22:19 -0700
From: "Michael Maxwell" <michael@maxwell.cnchost.com>
Subject: Other codes for 1972 Olds

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01BE2A91.D22CD2D0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Does anyone have the codes that are on the=20
cowl area tag that contains paint codes, etc.?
They are:
ST            BDY
TR            PAINT

- ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01BE2A91.D22CD2D0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Does anyone have the codes that are =
on the=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>cowl area tag that contains paint =
codes,=20
etc.?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2>They=20
are:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2>ST&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;=20
BDY</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2>TR&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;=20
PAINT</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01BE2A91.D22CD2D0--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 16:22:14 -0500
From: "Mike Rothe." <hurstolds@xtalwind.net>
Subject: Re: W29 Option

In 69 the W29 "option" was the entire package.  When you ordered a W29,
you got the base 442 and any OTHER options (also marked with *) required
when ordering W29.  W29 was the REQUIRED option when you checked off
that you were ordering a 442, (hence the *)and unique VIN ID was
included, since it was its own body line from 68-71 inclusive.  Strange
as it may seem, this W29 really meant put all the 442 stuff on a Cutlass
car.  So it was coded W29, not 442.  Make sense?

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 16:34:32 EST
From: W30442CS@aol.com
Subject: Re: Power Locks?

pull the door panel off and look on the reverse side, the panels come marked
from the factory for pwr windows and locks.  also their should be a hole in
the door where the switch will be.    steven,  w30442cs@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 15:43:53 -0600
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: '99 Olds Nats??

K, 
Can you come though here so I don't have to drive to Chicago first, I'm,
banned in Cicero, have to go through there. Straight down 55, 2 miles from
me. Bring the Cuervo, see the sites.
Lou

- ----------
> From: KarlAune@aol.com
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: '99 Olds Nats??

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 15:45:56 -0600
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: Signing off for a while (Was Re: '99 Olds Nats??)

Luckey, so & so, have room for a Vega?
Lou

- ----------
> From: Andrew C. Green <acg_o@hotmail.com>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Signing off for a while (Was Re: '99 Olds Nats??)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 14:57:43 -0700
From: Roger Peterson <rkp@uswest.net>
Subject: Re: Emissions

Dorian... in a word, the deal is simple: emissions.  I live in Maricopa 
County, a
non-attainment area in the great State of Arizona.  Because we have had 
occasions
that we failed to attain Federal Clean Air Standards, we have strict emissions
laws here.  When practical, I'm interested in doing the responsible thing by
avoiding blowing all of those gasses into the same air I breathe when I can 
just
as easily reduce them by combusting them.  No, I don't run cats on my non-cat 
car,
but some people do, so, in my original message, I tossed out some free advice 
that
will save headaches down the road.

Regarding a PCV valve, think of it as a modulator between pressure (on the
crankcase side) and vacuum (on the intake side).  There is a tapered slide 
valve
(plunger) and spring inside the PCV housing that you hold in your hand.  At 
idle,
high manifold vacuum moves the plunger for minimum flow.  Your engine makes 
less
blowby at idle.  When accelerating, the very low intake manifold vacuum allows 
the
plunger to center itself for maximum flow.  The more air/fuel mixture your 
vacuum
pumps (pistons) suck into the cylinder, the more blowby the engine makes 
trying to
compress it.  That's why piston rings are cut the way they are, but that's 
another
story.  Anyway, with the engine off, the valve is closed, and it also closes in
the event of a backfire.  It's a fairly innocuous thing, and there are some
compelling reasons to use one, but you clearly don't have to.  Some folks
eliminate them in deference to a filter (breather) to avoid hose clutter.  In 
the
old days, we had PCV hoses or pipes and a little puff of acrid smoke belching 
out
from under the car.  Times change.  Hope this helps.  Roger:)

DYeager535@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 12/17/98 2:15:36 PM Pacific Standard Time, rkp@uswest.net
> writes:
>
> << Disconnecting of PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation) valve: bad idea.  
PCV
> uses
>  engine vacuum (usually after carb circuits) to draw blowby gasses from
> carnkcase
>  into the intake and combust them.  Excessive blowby = fix funky engine.
> Crankcase
>  blowby _will_ go somewhere.  It'll push out a seal if it has to (this would
> be a
>  _bad_ thing).  Better to vacuum it out through the tailpipe.
>  Hope this helps... Roger:) >>
>
>      Ok, whats the real deal here? I know many people that run crankcase
> breathers, not pcv valves. (racers, 4 wheelers, etc.) as long as the pcv 
valve
> port isn't PLUGGED in the valve cover, you will be ok. The PCV is to evacuate
> the fumes and pressure in the crankcase, generated by piston blowby. Running 
a
> breather would be no different, except that there would be vacuum sucking on
> the valve. The pressure generated would be evacuated by the breather before 
it
> reached problem levels.
>      According to Chilton's, all pre-'68 cars had "open' systems that did not
> rely on vacuum to evacuate the crankcase...the Compression Ratios back then
> were higher on lots of motors compared to what we now have, so I would think
> the problem would have been worse on higher CR cars. Thats the way I
> understand it..anyone else? Dorian

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 16:11:29 -0600
From: "mbloomer" <mbloomer@gateway.net>
Subject: Re: Are my 7a heads good for performance?

>I want to rebuild the 350 in my 72 Cutlass s.  My question is are the 7a
heads
>good for performance?  What type of machining would you suggest?  Thanks.
>
>Steve
>CutW29@aol.com
>
Yes, the 7a's IMHO are about as good as you can get for the sb Olds.  The
5's
are supposed to be the best flowing stock sb heads but all Old's heads are
supposed to be within 5% of each other stock (this according to the FAQ).
What machining you do depends on what type of motor your building.  You
can install any valve sizes you want (cut mine for 2.072/1.680) but my
advice if it's going to be a relatively healthy motor and the valves are
going
to be on the big side to spend the money on stainless.  I had problems
with the valves warping and had an exhaust drop from the stem (was using
TRW factory replacements).  My motor was pretty radical and I worked in
a race shop that had a head machine, so this is what I did.

Cut the head for the larger valves including the sides of the chambers to
unshroud the valves (brought chamber size from 64cc to 67cc).  Milled
head surface to decrease chamber size (went from 67cc to 62cc).  Polished
the exhaust ports and removed the AIR bumps.  Tear dropped the valve
guides and hand blended the cuts from installing the larger valves.  I also
installed hardened seats though I have seen many Olds heads that didn't
have them and had many miles on unleaded with no valve recession (iron
Olds used is so hard it acts like a hardened seat, will also take twice as
long to port).  There are also other things you can do like fill the exhaust
crossover (not recommended for daily driver, especially if it gets cold in
your location) and cutting back the exhaust divider.  What you want from
your motor will dictate how much work you put in the heads.  BTW I ran
the stock rockers with a radical cam so as long as you set the heads up
right you can save some money there.

Mike B
mbloomer@gateway.net
ICQ# 19113713
72 Cutlass S (RIP)
68 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 17:20:45 EST
From: Knightvd@aol.com
Subject: Re: 200-4R Experience

Is this because the RPMs when the trans is in OD could be lower than the stall
speed of the converter when cruising, thus causing excessive heat?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 15:22:01 -0700
From: "Igor T. '81 DRB 455" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: 307 CAMS

I need to know what the stock specs for a '81 307 cam are and a '76 455 cam.
I also need lobe centerlines if possible.  Thanks.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 18:32:02 EST
From: W30442CS@aol.com
Subject: re; w-29 option

wait a minute,  are saying here that in 72 the only way to tell if it was a
true 442 was if it had a X in the vin?  or was this to identify it as a w-30?
steven,  w30442cs@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 18:49:58 EST
From: Gutlass66@aol.com
Subject: Oldsmobile POS for sale

1966 Cutlass
330ci 60,000mi
Car has 88,000
2dr
Auto
Buckets
White with black inter.
AM 2 speaker radio

I'm really pissed off at my car, if you wanna make an offer, i might sell it.
It died in the f*ckin' middle of the road. I still love the car, I just am
really really really mad. I have lost all faith in oldsmobiles


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 18:56:44 -0500
From: "Mike Rothe." <hurstolds@xtalwind.net>
Subject: Re: re; w-29 option

> wait a minute,  are saying here that in 72 the only way to tell if it was a
> true 442 was if it had a X in the vin?  or was this to identify it as a w-30?

Yes, the W-30 had the X in the VIN.  The 72 H/O did too, I believe.

The 442 W-29 option was based on the Cutlass.
Badging/stripes/suspension.  Build sheet verification or other
documentation only.  350 cu.in., three-speed synchromesh tranny and no
cutouts in the bumper standard.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 19:17:54 EST
From: Onebil2mny@aol.com
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile POS for sale

In a message dated 12/18/1998 6:51:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Gutlass66@aol.com writes:

<< I still love the car, I just am
 really really really mad. I have lost all faith in oldsmobiles
  >>


You've lost all faith in Oldsmobiles because a 30 year old car died on
you......   erm, OK.  But it seams to me it died for a reason, and maybe you
can fix the reasons??   

Just my .02
Bill K

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 19:09:57 EST
From: ANTIQOLDS@aol.com
Subject: Re: '99 Olds Nats??

In a message dated 12/18/98 4:16:25 PM Eastern Standard Time,
blue442@webtv.net writes:

<< 
 What can I expect to find in the way of parts or memorabilia?
  >>
  There will be lots of JUST Oldsmobile parts, many vendors that you see
advertised in JWO and Runabout to Rockets.

Everett   OCA# 1961  1961 Starfire

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 19:33:08 EST
From: Gutlass66@aol.com
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile POS for sale

I just get really mad. I have put everything I have had for 2 years into this
car, and it has to be pushed home. I just am not happy.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 19:17:03 EST
From: MFATZII@aol.com
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile POS for sale

In a message dated 12/18/98 5:51:35 PM Central Standard Time,
Gutlass66@aol.com writes:

<< 
 I'm really pissed off at my car, if you wanna make an offer, i might sell it.
 It died in the f*ckin' middle of the road. I still love the car, I just am
 really really really mad. I have lost all faith in oldsmobiles >>


gotta keep gas in em.........

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 19:10:26 EST
From: W30442CS@aol.com
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile POS for sale/ for entire list!!!

In a message dated 98-12-18 18:51:26 EST, you write:

>1966 Cutlass
>330ci 60,000mi
>Car has 88,000
>2dr
>Auto
>Buckets
>White with black inter.
>AM 2 speaker radio
>
>I'm really pissed off at my car, if you wanna make an offer, i might sell it.
>It died in the f*ckin' middle of the road. I still love the car, I just am
>really really really mad. I have lost all faith in oldsmobiles
>
>

trust me, what you really need is a break!  even the most die hard olds fan
needes a break once in a while.  i have been building olds for close to 20
years, and as much as i love to work on them , it can beat a good man down
trying to save a work of art.  sometimes when im stumped and cant figure it
out or just cant get things to go right , i put it aside for awhile and take a
break. it lets the ol creative juices flow!  (little support here guys!)    it
will work out, just give some time, and your self a break.   steven,
w30442cs@aol.com 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 17:19:04 -0800
From: "noelle r murphy" <MURPH2@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile POS for sale

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_01BE2AAA.832E2940
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Kelly,

		Don't get so down in the mouth The way you talked in our 
private E-mail, 
this car was better than sliced bread, and you were ready to kick some a**
at the track.  Dont let 1 bad experience ( heck,  don't let 20 bad
experiences )  sour you on the whole idea of creating your version of an
american muscle classic.  If I had done that I would have sold mine 3 days
after I bought it.  Hope all the supporive e-mail will change your mind.

				Paul
				'66 F-85

- ------=_NextPart_000_01BE2AAA.832E2940
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><p><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Arial">Kelly,<br><br>&#009;&#009;Don't get so =
down in the mouth The way you talked in our private E-mail, &nbsp;this =
car was better than sliced bread, and you were ready to kick some a** at =
the track. &nbsp;Dont let 1 bad experience ( heck, &nbsp;don't let 20 =
bad experiences ) &nbsp;sour you on the whole idea of creating your =
version of an american muscle classic. &nbsp;If I had done that I would =
have sold mine 3 days after I bought it. &nbsp;Hope all the supporive =
e-mail will change your =
mind.<br><br>&#009;&#009;&#009;&#009;Paul<br>&#009;&#009;&#009;&#009;'66 =
F-85<br><br></p>
</font></body></html>
- ------=_NextPart_000_01BE2AAA.832E2940--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 20:22:08 EST
From: Gutlass66@aol.com
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile POS for sale

I just wanna thank all you nice people for being suportive, and all you other
people, go drive chevys.
Kelly
1966 Cutlass its staying 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 20:27:51 EST
From: Gutlass66@aol.com
Subject: The Cutlass isnt for sale, but the Super 88 is

I just dont have room for my 54 Super 88. Does someone want this thing?
1954 Rocket 88
324.7ci V-8
4bbl
4door
100,000orignal miles

I'll write more later, email me if you are intrested
pirice around 1500

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 18:38:11 -0600
From: <barbw@uswest.net>
Subject: Re: passing emissions tests (long post)

John Carri wrote:

> 5)   Make sure your thermostat is not colder than the factory spec one.
> Cold engines emit more pollutants.
>

For some completely unknown reason, my car ALWAYS passes emissions with a
cold engine rather than a thoroughly warmed up one.  Every year Id tear my
hair out come emissions time (to make bad matters worse, my tag renewal is
up in July - almost the hottest month of the year in Arizona).  I save the
emissions test report from year to year and discovered that the readings
tended to be lower not only when it was cooler out, but when the engine
had not yet warmed up.  Arizona allows you to go for the emissions test up
to 90 days early.  I target a nice pleasant Sat. morning some time in the
first half of May, drive the car out of the garage one mile to the testing
facility and shut the car off while waiting in line - and pass the whole
test.

There were some earlier posts re disconnecting the PCV.  Well, Arizona
does a visual inspection of mandated emissions equipment which include the
PCV, cat, gas tank cap etc.  I have had the experience of passing all
portions of the emissions test EXCEPT the PCV portion - I hadnt realized
the ding-dong mechanics who had serviced the car some time prior to the
inspection failed to reconnect the PCV.  On the very same day I failed
said test the first time, I reconnected the PCV, drove around some before
letting the car sit in the garage for several hours then went back for the
retest in the afternoon, outside temperature was in the 80s and engine was
luke-warm -- and promptly failed the CO2 portion of the test...  Go
figure.  That car must be like its owner and has a mind of its own!

Barb
'76 Cutlass Salon

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 20:30:24 -0500
From: "Poppy30" <Poppy30@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: don't believe (was offset)

I HAVE A 71 SUPREME 350 ,THE ENGINE IS IS IS OFFSET 1 INCH TO THE RIGHT, I
MEASURED IT . ITS FACT. LETS MOVE ON WITH HELP INSTEAD OF DEBATING IT TO
DEATH.....
- -----Original Message-----
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM <Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wednesday, December 16, 1998 4:28 PM
Subject: RE: don't believe (was offset)


>He did say sometimes.  I suppose if we found Joe that 69 double hump hood,
>he would lead us straight :)
>
>Chris
>________
>
>How's that go?  "I made a mistake once...I thought I was wrong"  ;-)
>
>Actually, I was thinking more of the (mumble, mumble) 66 Supreme fiasco of
>a few months ago...
>
>To be honest, I don't have proof that the motors in Supremes _aren't_
>offset, but without proof that they are, I remain skeptical.  It just
>doesn't make sense.  Hot Chevy and Camaro Craft have a long history of Olds
>disinformation, and we won't go into the documented errors in Mondello's
>tech manual (and before we start another flame war, I will be the first to
>say that he's probably the foremost expert in the country, but even Joe M
>makes mistakes).
>
>Joe Padavano
>padavano.joe@orbital.com
>
>66 442
>68 W-30
>69 H/O
>69 442
>70 W-30
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 17:43:49 -0800
From: Chris Fair <cfair@FairIsaac.com>
Subject: RE: Oldsmobile POS for sale

We've all been through this. Stick with the car or you'll be one of those
guys who other Olds guys meet who go "Man I really loved that car, shouldn't
have sold it."
 
A quick list of what I've stuck through
 
1) 2 engine fires (bad Qjet!, dang bad wiring -- (done by me...)) 
2) 2 broken front lower A arms (each @25mph)
3) One broken rear trailing arm going to Mom's on Xmas eve
4) Total loss of brake fluid (Oh Sh*t)
5) Broken fuel pump on I-5 in the middle of nowhere (Gas Station guy: "You
want to buy a fuel pump for a Sixty Six what????")
6) 10-20 crap outs for various reasons
7) Stuck needle & seat which dumped enough gas in my crankcase to make a
good bomb (bad Holley!)
8) 4 or so small body damage accidents
 
On the plus side
1) All 320,000 miles of use -- you can't buy memories, but I'll have 'em
forever
2) Some of the best top down rides you could ever care to have. Nothing like
Summer with the top down -- or winter with the heater on
3) Learning all about the finer points of utterly obsolete technology
4) 3 words: Chicks dig it.
5) Cool stereo, built by me
6) Having something in life which is just about how you want it
7) It was my father's Oldsmobile -- Dad was cool enough to buy a 98
convertible in 1966. And was that cool till he died.
8) Junkyard treasure hunts, what a great feeling when you find that part
you've been looking for for 3 years.
 
my 2 cents
 
cf
1966 98 convertible
1966 Starfire coupe
 
 
 
 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 20:41:17 EST
From: DROLDS350@aol.com
Subject: A/C Wiring Part II

I am in need of h*lp with some air conditioning wiring. I am about to wire up
my a/c system. There is a switch, that sits on the inside of the passenger
right hand fender, and wires go to this switch, or junction block. My question
is this; What is this called, a switch or a junction block, and are they
available. What wires go into this. I know the wires go from this thing to the
compressor. Could anyone tell me what wires go where? 
Thanks,
Jim McKeague

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 21:00:33 -0500
From: "Poppy30" <Poppy30@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: cutlass supreme engine offset (correction)

WOW!I DIDN'T KNOW I HAD A RARE, ONLY 1 MADE, 71 SUPREME WITH A FACTORY
OFFSET ENGINE!MUST BE WORTH ABOUT A ZILLION DOLLAES. WANT TO BUY IT? TODAY
ONLY, 50% OFF ,1/2 ZILLION DOLLARS. ACTUALLY,THE FRAMES BODYS CROSSMEMBERS
ETC. ARE ALL THE SAME,THEY SIMPLY MOVED THE ENGINE OVER.LOOK AT YOUR
CROSSMEMBER,THERE IS A BUNCH OF DRILLED HOLES FOR ENGINE MOUNT FRAME PAD
LOCATION ON ALL THE CARS.SO, WHAT ABOUT THE 1/2 ZILLION DOLLARS,AT THIS
PRICE IT WON'T LAST LONG.THE FAN SHROUD IS SLOTTED (FACTORY) AND POSITIONED
ALL THE WAY TO THE RIGHT. POPPY30@MSN.COM
- -----Original Message-----
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM <Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wednesday, December 16, 1998 4:42 PM
Subject: Re: cutlass supreme engine offset (correction)


>See, I _told_ you not to believe everything I wrote.
>
>Previously I mentioned the Hot Rod/Car Craft item about engine offset in
>the Olds A-body cars.  Now I remember the exact quote that told me they
>didn't know what they were talking about.  The response to the tech
>question had indicated that engines were offset in Cutlass Supreme and
>Cutlass S models, but not in 442s in the 1970-1972 model years.  Here's the
>problem with this statement:  the Cutlass S and 442 are _EXACTLY_ the same
>body, with _EXACTLY_ the same engine placement.  In fact, in 1972, when the
>442 was demoted back to an option package, the Cutlass S _WAS_ the 442.
>Both the Cutlass S and the 442 use the "77" Sport Coupe and "87" Holiday
>Coupe body styles.  Frames, motor mounts, crossmembers, etc, etc. are
>_IDENTICAL_ between these two.  Basically, Petersen Publishing doesn't know
>what the heck they're talking about.  And yes, I _have_ put big tube
>headers in a big block 71 Cutlass S with no problems, as well as in a 72
>Cutlass S-based 442 with a 350.  (Just please don't tell anyone I once
>owned a car with a small block, OK?)
>
>Joe Padavano
>padavano.joe@orbital.com
>
>66 442
>68 W-30
>69 H/O
>69 442
>70 W-30
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 21:22:40 -0500
From: "Andersons" <robertan@cfw.com>
Subject: Re: 200-4R Experience

My thoughts exactly.  Those big puddles of red juice on the cardboard under
the car get discouraging after a while.

Seems like the list generally likes the the TH200.  I had one of the 3 speed
TH200C in an '84 Cutlass that was the tranny from Hades- first rebuild at
6000 miles (this one courtesy of Generous Motors), and then at 40K and
failed again at 100K.  All 3 times, loss of reverse gear & then downhill
from there.  Swapped to TH350 then, which worked fine, but the shift feel
was rough, and I missed the lock up.  All this tranny failure, BTW, a result
of the punishing torque of a 231V6!!!

My '71 Cutlass' TH350 needs its third rebuild now also, but it's at 220K
miles.  If anyone knows of a place to get a BOP compatible 200R4 or 700,
reasonable, I'd love to hear about it.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Drusch, Wayne (Human Resources & Risk Mgmt) <>
To: 'Olds List' <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Friday, December 18, 1998 2:47 PM
Subject: 200-4R Experience


> Remember reading in some magazine article that if a lock-up converter in a
>200-4r is not hooked up to work excessive heat builds up in the tranny.
>Something to do with fluid circulation through parts of the lock up
>mechanism. I think I saved that article and will try to find it. That is
>probably why a separate non-lock-up is made--to avoid this heating problem.
>Still seems like an interesting conversion to consider to replace my leaky
>TH-350.
>
>E. Wayne Drusch
>71 Cutlass Conv.
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 21:30:25 EST
From: DYeager535@aol.com
Subject: Re: cutlass supreme engine offset (correction)

In a message dated 12/18/98 6:14:08 PM Pacific Standard Time,
Poppy30@EMAIL.MSN.COM writes:

<< LOOK AT YOUR
 CROSSMEMBER,THERE IS A BUNCH OF DRILLED HOLES FOR ENGINE MOUNT FRAME PAD
 LOCATION ON ALL THE CARS.SO,  >>

     Isn't this so the Buick, Olds, Pontiac and Chevy cars that used this
frame ( I assume they all use the same frame ) could bolt up the respective
engines? Look at a G-body crossmember..about 5 different holes on both
sides...they only used 2 per side for the Olds motor..Chev used 3 if I
remember right.  Dorian

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 20:55:03 -0600
From: "mbloomer" <mbloomer@gateway.net>
Subject: Re: cutlass supreme engine offset (correction)

> ACTUALLY,THE FRAMES BODYS CROSSMEMBERS
>ETC. ARE ALL THE SAME,THEY SIMPLY MOVED THE ENGINE OVER.LOOK AT YOUR
>CROSSMEMBER,THERE IS A BUNCH OF DRILLED HOLES FOR ENGINE MOUNT FRAME PAD
>LOCATION ON ALL THE CARS.SO, WHAT ABOUT THE 1/2 ZILLION DOLLARS,AT THIS
>PRICE IT WON'T LAST LONG.THE FAN SHROUD IS SLOTTED (FACTORY) AND POSITIONED
>ALL THE WAY TO THE RIGHT. POPPY30@MSN.COM


>I HAVE A 71 SUPREME 350 ,THE ENGINE IS IS IS OFFSET 1 INCH TO THE RIGHT, I
>MEASURED IT . ITS FACT. LETS MOVE ON WITH HELP INSTEAD OF DEBATING IT TO
>DEATH....

So where did you measure from/to?  FYI you have to know the parameters
of the problem before you fix it, so the discussion on which cars do/do not
have an offset engine is key to determining how to eliminate the offset.
Personally I would like some more info on your car such as measurements
of several places on the engine and position of the trans side to side in
the
car.  As far as all the drilled holes in the crossmember, all A bodies have
the holes, which accommadated all the different frame pads for the various
engines.  If you simply unbolted the frame pads and rebolted them in the
other holes it wouldn't move the engine over.  It would rotate the engine so
if your measuring from the top part of the engine it would measure closer to
one side.  OTOH if the engine is offset the trans will be also to keep the
driveshaft in phase, so what are the measurements from the frame rail
to the trans?  Also, has your vehicle ever been in an accident?  This can
cause the "offset" also.  One last thing, please refrain from using all
capitol letters in your post as it violates post etiquitte and makes it
more difficult to read.

Mike B
mbloomer@gateway.net
ICQ# 19113713
72 Cutlass S (RIP)
68 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 22:09:29 -0500
From: Don Sowers <dstaxpro@lex.infi.net>
Subject: Re: re; w-29 option

Mike Rothe. wrote:
> 
> > wait a minute,  are saying here that in 72 the only way to tell if it was a
> > true 442 was if it had a X in the vin?  or was this to identify it as a 
w-30?
> 
> Yes, the W-30 had the X in the VIN.  The 72 H/O did too, I believe.

Hope not, because if I'm looking at the right title my 72 Hurst does not
have an X in the VIN and it looks original enough to be original...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 22:06:43 EST
From: W30442CS@aol.com
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile POS for sale

In a message dated 98-12-18 20:43:18 EST, you write:

>
>We've all been through this. Stick with the car or you'll be one of those
>guys who other Olds guys meet who go "Man I really loved that car, shouldn't
>have sold it."
> 
>A quick list of what I've stuck through
> 
>1) 2 engine fires (bad Qjet!, dang bad wiring -- (done by me...)) 
>2) 2 broken front lower A arms (each @25mph)
>3) One broken rear trailing arm going to Mom's on Xmas eve
>4) Total loss of brake fluid (Oh Sh*t)
>5) Broken fuel pump on I-5 in the middle of nowhere (Gas Station guy: "You
>want to buy a fuel pump for a Sixty Six what????")
>6) 10-20 crap outs for various reasons
>7) Stuck needle & seat which dumped enough gas in my crankcase to make a
>good bomb (bad Holley!)
>8) 4 or so small body damage accidents
> 
>On the plus side
>1) All 320,000 miles of use -- you can't buy memories, but I'll have 'em
>forever
>2) Some of the best top down rides you could ever care to have. Nothing like
>Summer with the top down -- or winter with the heater on
>3) Learning all about the finer points of utterly obsolete technology
>4) 3 words: Chicks dig it.
>5) Cool stereo, built by me
>6) Having something in life which is just about how you want it
>7) It was my father's Oldsmobile -- Dad was cool enough to buy a 98
>convertible in 1966. And was that cool till he died.
>8) Junkyard treasure hunts, what a great feeling when you find that part
>you've been looking for for 3 years.
> 
>my 2 cents
> 
>cf
>1966 98 convertible
>1966 Starfire coupe
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
>
>

man , does that bring back memories,  been there done that!    steven,
w30442cs@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 20:23:00 -0700
From: Roger Peterson <rkp@uswest.net>
Subject: Re: passing emissions tests (long post)

Barb... Perhaps I can shed some useful light on the emissions issue.  I
promise not to go overboard and to keep it short.  CO (carbon monoxide) is
burned fuel.  If CO is high, the corresponding air fuel ratio is likely rich
(too much fuel in comparison to the amount of air being drawn into the
cylinders by your vacuum pumps [pistons]) and you have too much burned fuel in
the exhaust.  This is also discussed in terms of Stoichiometry or the
Stoichiometric fuel mixture: the theoretically ideal mixture being somewhere
around 14.7:1 (or 14.7 parts air to one part fuel).  There's good news in this
scenerio in that at least the fuel is burned (meaning your engine's combustion
efficiency and ignition system are working at least fairly well).  Most
likely, you need to tweak the mixture.

Alternatively, HC (hydrocarbons) is unburned fuel.  If HC is high, this is an
indication that something is preventing the air fuel mixture from being
sufficiently burned.  You have unburned fuel in the exhaust.  Causes could be
many: poor ignition (which goes beyond mere ignition systems), poor ignition
with poor Stoichiometry, fuel delivery interferrence such as vacuum leaks, or
a combination of the three, etc.  HC has the potential to become a more
complex problem, but not unsolvable.  There's much to be said for the fine art
of logical deduction.  Lastly, for space reasons, I've kept this discussion
quite brief (given the subject matter), and I've deliberately avoided NOx, but
it's out there too...  Somehow, I'm sure it'll come up.

In all likelyhood I've started a thread here since this is a subject most
mechanics and automobile enthusiasts like/love/hate to debate, but it is my
sincere hope that I've opened a door (if only by the slightest amount).
Roger:)

barbw@uswest.net wrote:

> John Carri wrote:
>
> > 5)   Make sure your thermostat is not colder than the factory spec one.
> > Cold engines emit more pollutants.
> >
>
> For some completely unknown reason, my car ALWAYS passes emissions with a
> cold engine rather than a thoroughly warmed up one.  Every year Id tear my
> hair out come emissions time (to make bad matters worse, my tag renewal is
> up in July - almost the hottest month of the year in Arizona).  I save the
> emissions test report from year to year and discovered that the readings
> tended to be lower not only when it was cooler out, but when the engine
> had not yet warmed up.  Arizona allows you to go for the emissions test up
> to 90 days early.  I target a nice pleasant Sat. morning some time in the
> first half of May, drive the car out of the garage one mile to the testing
> facility and shut the car off while waiting in line - and pass the whole
> test.
>
> There were some earlier posts re disconnecting the PCV.  Well, Arizona
> does a visual inspection of mandated emissions equipment which include the
> PCV, cat, gas tank cap etc.  I have had the experience of passing all
> portions of the emissions test EXCEPT the PCV portion - I hadnt realized
> the ding-dong mechanics who had serviced the car some time prior to the
> inspection failed to reconnect the PCV.  On the very same day I failed
> said test the first time, I reconnected the PCV, drove around some before
> letting the car sit in the garage for several hours then went back for the
> retest in the afternoon, outside temperature was in the 80s and engine was
> luke-warm -- and promptly failed the CO2 portion of the test...  Go
> figure.  That car must be like its owner and has a mind of its own!
>
> Barb
> '76 Cutlass Salon

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 22:32:34 -0000
From: "RANDY A GEISEL" <RANDYGEISEL@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: re; w-29 option

>The 72 H/O did too, I believe.


Only if it had the W-30 option also.

Randy

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 21:39:31 -0600
From: Shang <shang@connect.net>
Subject: Re: A/C Wiring Part II

DROLDS350@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I am in need of h*lp with some air conditioning wiring. I am about to wire up
> my a/c system. There is a switch, that sits on the inside of the passenger
> right hand fender, and wires go to this switch, or junction block. My 
question
> is this; What is this called, a switch or a junction block, and are they
> available. What wires go into this. I know the wires go from this thing to 
the
> compressor. Could anyone tell me what wires go where?
> Thanks,
> Jim McKeague

This piece is called the compressor relay. It should have a switched
(from the A/C control switch) 12volt going to it, and 12volt & ground
going to the compressor. They are available from many resto places.

Stephen Hoover
Dallas, Texas
'70 Supreme

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 22:48:26 -0500
From: David Brode <dbrode@hereintown.net>
Subject: even MORE bench racing [was 8000 rpm 350]

> Mike B.,

 I wasn't comparing the Olds RPM head to the sb chev RPM heads. I was pointing 
out that even the Olds Edelbrock head
couldn't touch at least a couple of  the more serious Edelbrock sb chev 
heads[not rpm], let alone some of the other
brands of sb chev aftermarket heads.

 NOTE:  I did this after you posted that you thought a well modified Factory 
Olds head would flow with some or all of
the sb chev heads that the aftermarket offers. Sorry, but no amount of tuning, 
split duration cams, or headers is going
to make this happen.

 Since the unported Olds Edelbrock won't match the best of the unported 
Eldelbrock sb chev heads, I would bet the ported
Edelbrock Olds head wouldn't match ported versions of the Edelbrock sb chev 
heads, let alone some of the high end
offerings from Brodix, Dart, etc. For instance, the latest from Brodix flows 
375/255 cfm out of the box!

 So from all this i believe the following to be true[some fact, some my 
opinion];

1. an unported factory Olds head will not flow with a ported one[duh].

2. the best ported factory Olds head probably will flow close to, but not 
outflow an unported Edelbrock Olds head. If it
does outflow the unported Edelbrock, it will not do so by much.

3. an unported Edelbrock Olds will not flow with some of the better unported 
Edelbrock sb chev heads[fact].

4. a ported Edelbrock Olds head will probably not flow with a ported version 
of the better Edelbrock sb chev heads.

 I don't know if a w-31 head would outflow, say a 1970 chev sb LT-1 head, with 
both in a ported or an unported state. I
doubt it, although it might be close. While i'm an Olds fan,  I'm also a 
realist. If you can prove me wrong with facts,
i'd love it.
 I'd like to see facts to prove the Olds heads will outshine the sb chevs, 
factory to factory, or high end aftermarket

to high end aftermarket, otherwise i'm done on the Olds vs sb chev head flow 
topic.

 My original post was to knock around the pros and cons of a "C" head on a 
budget high rpm 350. I envisioned this effort
to be something like a street strip 3500 lb car, 5.13 or deeper gear, solid 
lifter cam, single plane intake, 11.5-1
compression, stick shift or 5500 or so rpm convertor.  I know this
 This combo could be built without allot of cash. The only high buck items 
would be the custom pistons, although the
forged Speedpros[were trw] are getting so expensive that arias aren't that 
much higher, and i think the Arias would be
lighter, hence well prepped stock 350 rods might be suffice.

 Here's another angle on why i think the "C" heads would make more power at 
high rpm. Using the formula  C.I. times rpm
times .5 times .85%[V.E.] you need the following cfm;
350"@5800 = 499
350"@7500 = 645
370"@7500 = 682
455"@5800 = 644

 It's a fact then, that the 7500 rpm 350 needs the same amount of air as the 
5800 rpm 455. I know the low rpm 455  is a
much better, and longer lasting street engine. I also know the high rpm small 
engine with a bigger intake port["C" head]
would be "peaky", but with enough gear, etc, i think it'd work.
 Let me put it this way, which head do you think would make more power on a 
5800 rpm 455, a ported 5,6, or 7 head, or a
decently prepped "C"?
 The "C" head's intake port could be left as is, and all ones effort put 
towards improving the exhaust flow.

 I thought it would be neat to have a decent running high rpm screamer that 
would have guys coming over in the pits
expecting to see a chev motor, only to find an Olds. You could say...ah, it's 
only a  bored out 350. Most guys don't
know the difference between a 6 and a "C" head.
 Finally, i wasn't envisioning a engine to compete with a high end sb chev, 
but one with 2.02"X1.60" camel hump heads,
G.M. bowties, etc.

 Still fun.
Dave Brode
64 Cutlass



>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 22:55:03 -0500
From: Don Sowers <dstaxpro@lex.infi.net>
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile POS for sale

W30442CS@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 98-12-18 20:43:18 EST, you write:
> 
> >
> >We've all been through this. Stick with the car or you'll be one of those

(SNIPPING A LONG LIST OF PROBLEMS HERE)

> man , does that bring back memories,  been there done that!    steven,
> w30442cs@aol.com

Uh, Steven, if you didn't buy the T-shirt you're going to have to go
back.  The job isn't done until you get the shirt for a keepsake to
remind you of the canceled checks sitting in the closet collecting dust
from the repairs done over the years.  Of course some of us don't keep
those around for prying eyes to locate (like the wife, mother or
in-laws).  Some people don't understand the disease CAR-US REPAIR-US
that is rampant in the male (mostly anyway) part of the population.  :)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 23:13:13 -0500
From: "Mike Rothe." <hurstolds@xtalwind.net>
Subject: Re: re; w-29 option

> > Yes, the W-30 had the X in the VIN.  The 72 H/O did too, I believe.
> 
> Hope not, because if I'm looking at the right title my 72 Hurst does not
> have an X in the VIN and it looks original enough to be original...


Maybe it did if it had the W-30 engine if possible?  I'm not sure.  Only
do 69 H/Os myself.  Still learning about the others.  I covered myself
with an "I believe" which means I'm not sure. :)

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 23:36:39 -0500
From: "Kevin Galuska" <kgaluska@monmouth.com>
Subject: Heating and Turn Signal

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE2ADF.429531A0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I have a '87 Cutlas Sierra.  When ever the heating is on for more than =
15min it starts to smell like s#!$, where should I start looking for the =
problem? Also, when I put my left turn signal on it doesn't shut off =
after the turn. I don't have a clue as to how to get at the indicator =
area in the colum.  Please Help.
Kevin Galuska
kgaluska@monmouth.com

- ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE2ADF.429531A0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I have a '87 Cutlas Sierra.&nbsp; When ever the =
heating is on=20
for more than 15min it starts to smell like s#!$, where should I start =
looking=20
for the problem? Also, when I put my left turn signal on it doesn't shut =
off=20
after the turn. I don't have a clue as to how to get at the indicator =
area in=20
the colum.&nbsp; Please Help.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Kevin Galuska</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"mailto:kgaluska@monmouth.com">kgaluska@monmouth.com</A></FONT></D=
IV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE2ADF.429531A0--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 23:56:27 EST
From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Subject: Re: You are all ignoring Karl

Hey Karl, why do you always tell info in the third person.  Do you have a
split personality?  I am just wondering.  I like to talk to people direct with
no BS.  Remember, I am not conceided but convinced that is why they call me
Mr. Personality.  :)   

W MACHINES (Mark Prince)
72 Oldsmobile Guru

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 00:07:20 EST
From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Subject: Re: ENGINE OFFSET

In a message dated 98-12-18 19:43:59 EST Poppy30 wrote:

<< THE ENGINES 350 OR 455 IN SUPREMES & S MODELS ARE OFFSET 1 INCH TO THE
 RIGHT, IT IS KNOWN FACT! IF YOU LOOK AT ANY HEADER CATALOGS, THEY HAVE
 FOOTNOTES THE HEADERS WILL NOT FIT S & SUPREMES.THE OFFSET IS THE REASON.I
 TALKED TO MONDELLO & HE CONFIRMED THIS AS WELL AS I MEASURED MY 71 SUPREME
 350 ENGINE LOCATION & IT IS 1 INCH TO THE RIGHT.THE FAN SHROUD IN MY CAR IS
 ALSO SLOTTED AND POSITIONED ALL THE WAY TO THE RIGHT.       POPPY30@MSN.COM
  >>
This is my reply Bub your are crazy,  I don't care what Joes says.  I
currently have a 71 Supreme with  
a 350 4bbl engine and I just put Hooker headers on with no problem.  My shroud
is not slotted and If you have an Oldsmobile Assembly Manual and Parts manual,
it will tell you the same thing.  Where are you taking the measurements from.
If your engine was offset, so would your transmission be offset and the drive
shaft also.  The th350 trans would be closer to one side of the hump then the
other also.  So next time you flame me, have facts.  I have been restoring and
racing Oldsmobiles for 15 years now and I share info with other perfomance
Oldsmobile racers that are local and been doing it longer than me.  Check out
my Street Rocket Page and see for yourself. 
http://members.aol.com/WMACHINES/site5.html

W MACHINES (Mark Prince)
72 442 W-30 Race rocket and many other cars

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 23:57:22 EST
From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Other codes for 1972 Olds

In a message dated 98-12-18 16:22:42 EST, you write:

<< Does anyone have the codes that are on the 
 cowl area tag that contains paint codes, etc.?
 They are:
 ST            BDY
 TR            PAINT
  >>
So what are the numbers bub??

W MACHINES

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 23:44:06 -0600
From: "mbloomer" <mbloomer@gateway.net>
Subject: Re: even MORE bench racing [was 8000 rpm 350]

Dave,
Last thing I intended on this thread was to start arbitrarily throwing out
unsubstantiated ideas as fact.  My stream of logic was simply this:

1.  The Edelbrock Olds heads outflow both the "C" bb heads (by 70/45
CFM int/exh) and the Edelbrock cheby RPM heads (barely).
2.  A 350 cheby with the full RPM package will make 420hp while a
350 Olds with a similar package is in the ballpark with 397hp.
3.  The difference in the two motors is the Olds had unported "5"
heads with larger valves.
4.  By my reasoning this would put the "5" heads in the same ballpark
as the "C" heads (due to lack of actual flow numbers)

My stream of logic was more intended to use the cheby heads as a
bechmark with which you could compare the different Olds heads.  Maybe
a bit of "fuzzy" logic but in the absence of hard numbers what else can
you do?  I would love to have actual facts to base my views on but until I
have my own flowbench I will just have to rely on past experience.

As for the C heads on the 350 I would personally rather keep the
sb parts on the sb.  It is my understanding that putting bb heads on
a sb you have to do porting on the intake side to get a good
match up with the intake so you couldn't just leave the intake side
"as is" anyway.  The problem with a "peaky" engine in the given
scenario is the 3500 lb car.  For a on/off engine to work it pretty
much has to be in a light car.  I don't really think huge ports are
needed to make a screamer.  What you need are heads that
flow well at low lift and a large cam.

I follow with your CFM calculations but 650 CFM isn't really all
that much to flow.  I used the same formula to figure out that
a 350@8000 rpm and 100% VE would need only 808 CFM.
This is your "outer limits" calculation that if you can achieve
this you'll never be limited by the flow capabilities of the motor.
On keeping with the budget theme how much are a good set
of C heads going for?  If you massage the 5 heads to flow your
magic 800 CFM then you eliminate the expense of trying to get
your hands on a set of C heads.  68-72 350's would all be good
candidates to build this motor out of and you could get the whole
motor for a few hundred and not have the extra expense of getting
a set of bb heads.

Mike B
mbloomer@gateway.net
ICQ# 19113713
72 Cutlass S (RIP)
68 Cutlass Supreme



> It's a fact then, that the 7500 rpm 350 needs the same amount of air as
the 5800 rpm 455. I know the low rpm 455  is a
>much better, and longer lasting street engine. I also know the high rpm
small engine with a bigger intake port["C" head]
>would be "peaky", but with enough gear, etc, i think it'd work.
> Let me put it this way, which head do you think would make more power on a
5800 rpm 455, a ported 5,6, or 7 head, or a
>decently prepped "C"?
> The "C" head's intake port could be left as is, and all ones effort put
towards improving the exhaust flow.
>
> I thought it would be neat to have a decent running high rpm screamer that
would have guys coming over in the pits
>expecting to see a chev motor, only to find an Olds. You could say...ah,
it's only a  bored out 350. Most guys don't
>know the difference between a 6 and a "C" head.
> Finally, i wasn't envisioning a engine to compete with a high end sb chev,
but one with 2.02"X1.60" camel hump heads,
>G.M. bowties, etc.
>
> Still fun.
>Dave Brode
>64 Cutlass
>
>
>
>>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 00:46:52 EST
From: CarJackTX@aol.com
Subject: Re: A/C Wiring Part II

The relay mounted on the passenger side fender is called a compressor hold in
relay. It energizes the compressor for a few seconds after turning off the
engine to prevent dieseling.

Jack 
71 Cutlass conv

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #1674
*********************************

