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Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #1655


oldsmobile-digest     Thursday, December 10 1998     Volume 01 : Number 1655



Re: heads up display
Re: heads up display
Re: 5.0 Mustang Vs. 455
Clean Air Act
Re: Pearl White/White
Re: Pearl White/White
Re: In need of:
Re: Mr. 57 Olds? J-2 bolts? was: The J-2 intake
Re: 5.0 Mustang Vs. 455
330 single plane
Unsubscribe.  Remove from subscription
Re: Alternator still high
Re: Olds Vrs. 305 Pontiac....
Re: Pearl White/White
5.0 Mustang Vs. 455
Q 4 the fellow stereo buffs
Re: Olds Vrs. 305 Pontiac....
For sale: 1986 Olds Station wagon
For Sale-1977 Olds Delta 88
wing/spoiler/make it look better
Re: Alternator still high
Re: Olds Vrs. 305 Pontiac....
Re: Olds Vrs. 305 Pontiac....
Re: 5.0 Mustang Vs. 455
RE: wing/spoiler/make it look better
73 olds cutlass S 455/4spd question
Traction (was 5.0....
Re: Pearl White/White
RE: Traction (was 5.0....
Re: 5.0 Mustang Vs. 455
Re: wing/spoiler/make it look better
Re: wing/spoiler/make it look better
Re: wing/spoiler/make it look better
Re: 5.0 Mustang Vs. 455
Re: Clean Air Act
RE: 5.0 Mustang Vs. 455
Re: Olds Vrs. 305 Pontiac....
Heads Up Display
Re: Clean Air Act
Re: Q 4 the fellow stereo buffs
Re: wing/spoiler/make it look better
68 Body Mods
Re: 68 Body Mods
Re: Q 4 the fellow stereo buffs
Re: Q 4 the fellow stereo buffs
Wanted! a set of Batten Heads
Re: wing/spoiler/make it look better
Re: Q 4 the fellow stereo buffs
Re: 5.0 Mustang Vs. 455
Re: Olds Vrs. 305 Pontiac....
Re: Traction (was 5.0....
Re: 5.0 Mustang Vs. 455
Re: 5.0 Mustang Vs. 455
Re: Olds Vrs. 305 Pontiac....
Re: 5.0 Mustang Vs. 455
Quadrajets/Holleys/Metering Rods/Fuel Injection/Performance/Fuel 
Economy/Reliability
Re: 5.0 Mustang Vs. 455
Re: 5.0 Mustang Vs. 455
Re: 5.0 Mustang Vs. 455
Re: Quadrajets/Holleys/Metering Rods/Fuel Injection/Performance/Fuel Economy/
Re: Quadrajets/Holleys/Metering Rods/Fuel Injection/Performance/Fuel 
Economy/Reliability

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 21:02:28 EST
From: W30442CS@aol.com
Subject: Re: heads up display

it takes a special windshield for heads up display!  my wifes 94 cutlass
supreme sl had it. when a truck kicked up a rock a cracked it we had to get it
replaced.  cost was over 900$.   i was told it took a special glass to make it
work.  steven, w30442cs@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 21:02:06 EST
From: OLDS44272@aol.com
Subject: Re: heads up display

<<Anyone know anything about retrofitting a heads-up display on a mid '80s
Delta 88?  I need to know what parts I may need to get if I am lucky
enough to find one in a junkyard,
TIA
Brian.  >> 


              I am not sure about all the sensors, but you will need to get
the special windsheild that had a small, index card sized coating ( maybe for
glare) that the display appears on. I don't know if this area is emmbedding in
the glass, or if it is just like a stick on thing. Might try to call a glass
and trim shop to see if windsheilds are different between a " heads up " car
and a standard. I know early 90's Grand Prix's and Bonniville's had the heads
up option........just some stuff to think about......SCOTT

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 21:08:08 -0500
From: Rebel1 <rebel1@raex.com>
Subject: Re: 5.0 Mustang Vs. 455

YUP - Grin!
Todd Daenzer
'69 rag top - 310hp tied to a 'glide :-(
'75 Supreme - project car....
'82 Supreme - SB, 700R4, 3.73's - Grin!
'86 Supreme - V-8 - daily driver...

Bob Dale wrote:

> Igor T. '81 DRB 455 wrote:
>
> > I have a question for those of you who have driven/raced late '80s and
> > early
> > 90's 5.0 Mustangs.  How fast are they.  I get stuff from people like:
> > not
> > that fast, or: super fast even stock.  I would like to know how my 455
> > '81
> > Delta would stand against a 5.0 at a stop light.  Yes I know, I should
> > race
> > one, but:  Number one, the car is in the bodyshop still, and number
> > two, for
> > the one week that I drove it I never had the opportunity to stop
> > beside a
> > 5.0 Mustang and pick on him/her.  Once picked on a few 16yr. guys in a
> > 5.0
> > but we were moving (I won but I also hit the gas first).  My car goes
> > pretty
> > good for the amount of money I spent into the motor ($1600 CAN or so,
> > ~$1000
> > US).  It has a TH400 with a 12-inch converter & Hurst Stage 2 kit.  It
> > also
> > has 3.23 posi and 255/60/15 BFGoodrich T/As.  Stock exhaust manifolds
> > with
> > dual 2.5" pipes (no cats) & balancer tube.  Mufflers are Dynomax Super
> > Turbo
> > and 2.25" tail pipes.  These are the motor specks:
> >
> > '76 Delta 88 block & heads
> > .030 10:1CR pistons (9.6 about)
> > Lunatic grind cam, .448/.472 lift, 204/214 @.050 duration
> > ported&polished(exhaust side)&shaved J-heads
> > DBL. Roller chain
> > new rings, bearings, etc..
> > HEI ignition w ACCEL coil
> > Stock Intake (soon to put a '70 442 intake on)
> > New Q-jet (same model as '70 442)
> > Stock Fuel Pump, K&N air filter (14x3)
>
>    Igor,
>    Prolly depends on what mods might be in any given 5.0. There`s one
> in my area with a Paxton blower and 5spd that`s reportly blown quite a
> few BBs away. Says he has low 12sec time slips. I just don`t think he`s
> run into a BB that`s set up correctly yet. The first 60ft is crucial I
> think. Unlike some states it`s hard to get away with very radical mods
> in Pa. 9-10sec street cars are few and far between around here anyway.
>  Go across the line into OH. and it`s a whole new ballgame.
>
> Bob-69 Cutlass S 455/400

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 21:04:17 -0500
From: "R. Grant" <kgrant442@home.com>
Subject: Clean Air Act

I just thought that I would let you Know what is happing in the Greater
Toronto Area Starting in Jan 99.
The Provincial Government is making it mandatory that all cars 4 years old
to 19 years old have to pass emission testing, every two years and that no
car can be sold without passing.
It looks like it will be a floating 19 years so all cars that are 20 years
old are exempt from this test.
If you would like info on this go to
http://www.driveclean.com/

I think that a lot of cars will be taken off the road next year.
Mine will just make it as it is being set up for all drivers getting
renewals in April. Mine is in March (by the skin of my teeth).

Kevin Grant
80 Cutlass Sup
Brampton Ont.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 21:16:05 EST
From: CPEARLPARK@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pearl White/White

The pigskin texture on the hardtops IS a little weird. I like the texture of
the convertible vinyl better...

Scott

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 21:08:27 EST
From: CPEARLPARK@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pearl White/White

Peter,  I had a 72 with real white (snow white) interior and it was really
nice.  Now have a 71 w/ pearl white.  I'd have to say I like the pure white
better, but that's only cause I have a bit of a problem with the contrast
between the pearl (kinda beige-ish) and the pure white top. A friend has brand
new pearl interior on his 71 and it is pretty sharp, with kind of an
irradescent finish. The point is that original is original and it depends on
your objective for the car...

Scott

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 21:28:51 EST
From: W451973@aol.com
Subject: Re: In need of:

hello, ed. i cant help you with the steering box, but the manual brakes i do
have experiance with. i converted my 77-442 to manual brakes. went to the
local auto parts store, got a manual master cylinder for a 73 cutlass. comes
with the correct rod. i had to redrill the hole for the pin in the pedel.
youll have to mount the cylinder to find out where to drill. i had to make a
new pin for mine. i dont know if youll have to. you might have to buy new
lines. i put linelock on mine so i used all new stuff. i got my manual box off
a 69-442, had to change the pitman arm. everything else seems fine.   good
luck.   dennis      w451973 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 21:38:45 EST
From: Mr57olds@aol.com
Subject: Re: Mr. 57 Olds? J-2 bolts? was: The J-2 intake

In a message dated 98-12-09 11:48:55 EST, you write:

<< Mr. 57?
 Do you know if these bolts were part of the casting or are screw-in or
pressed
 in? >>
 
I rebuilt one this summer.  All studs are screw in type.  5/16 course thread
into manifold with a fine thread for nut.   I am pretty certain there were
none cast or pressed in.    By the way I am looking for a J-2 air cleaner that
sits on top of carbs,  not the bat wing style that is most sought after.  I
would like to put J-2 on with chrome cleaners most of the time, but have the
original ugly one for judged shows.
Bruce
Mr57olds

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 21:54:24 -0500
From: mikemacneir@juno.com (mike j macneir)
Subject: Re: 5.0 Mustang Vs. 455

just think a 5.0 or  a 7.5?  gee i think "we" have one and a half mustang
engines.  which do you think will win?......that's what i thought.  some
guy at my school thinks his pony car will beat mine.  i told him he was
on some serious drugs.  he might beat me off the line, due to power to
weight ratio.  also he has a stick and i have factory stall converter.  i
havn't raced him yet.  if i could only find a way to keep my rear tires
on the ground i think i would do fine.

mike
(mikeytvb@aol.com
70 442 w/455

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 22:00:24 -0500
From: Bob Dale <bctad5@toolcity.net>
Subject: 330 single plane

In repsonse to the earlier thread about the availability of a single
plane maifold for the Olds 330, Check out the Holley part # 300-16 at
www. holley.com.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 19:13:49 -0800
From: Dean Floyd <dfloyd@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Unsubscribe.  Remove from subscription

Unsubscribe.  Remove from subscription

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 22:16:58 EST
From: MFATZII@aol.com
Subject: Re: Alternator still high

The  rebuilt generator on my 56 puts out about 15, but I understand that an
alternateor puts out more amps or more quickly....whatever.... i'm no electric
head but my battery is fine......


Ryan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 19:26:44 -0800
From: Bob Blanchard <bob149@uswest.net>
Subject: Re: Olds Vrs. 305 Pontiac....

>He revs the living piss out of the Olds,

Thats why you won. he launched to high.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 22:36:45 EST
From: DEOVIVERE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pearl White/White

In a message dated 98-12-09 03:50:20 EST, you write:

<< To the best of my knowledge in 70 & 71 the only white available on 442's
 was a pearl white. In 72 the white was called just white.
 My queston is which white is the more brighter white (pearl or white)? Also
 which do you think is the nicer looking white? >>


My experience with the pearl white interior on a 71 SX I once had was that it
is a deeper, creamier color of white, with perhaps greyish highlights, than
plain old white.  While the white is certainly "brighter,"  to me the pearl is
much more attractive.

FWIW, I never found any vinyl spray that could come close to approximating the
tint and figure of the pearl white for touch up work.  In direct light, the
difference was quite noticeable to an observant eye.  

Tom Simmons
65 Cutlass
70 SX W-32

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 20:44:23 -0700
From: "Igor T. '81 DRB 455" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: 5.0 Mustang Vs. 455

Wow, an overwhelming response.  Fist, I don't have a clue what my 1/4 times
are.  The motor has sub-1000 miles on it.  I have timed 0-60 a few times
(both by speedo and by RPM in second gear) and times very from 5.5 to 6.5
and even 7.5 depending on traction and air-temp, but I would have to say
that 6 sec 0-60 is no problem.  This is with timing set to 16deg BTDC at 700
rpm.  I think that by trying a few jets and doing some more tuning that I
could get it to go a little better.  Two big problems are LACK OF TRACTION
and high-weight.
The sucker will not hook in first at WOT.  It will smoke and fishtail,
sitting flat at 4500 when I step on it.  Then, when it catches traction I
shift after no-time at 4500.  Depending on road and so on, second gear shift
may light the tires pretty good as well.  The other problem is that this car
is heavy.  Big 4-door Delta 88 is a problem to move (especially with its
aerodynamics).  If mustangs are low 14, high 13 sec. cars then I doubt that
I could keep up.  I once raced a T-bird (early 90s), he got my by 1.5
car-lengths off the line cause the friggin car would not hook at even 1/2.
The T-bird spun the tires as well but still had way more traction.  Once I
hooked up though, I passed him in no time.  I let of after about 85 (limit
was 40 or 35) and he just steamed by then.  I think that it was a SC or a
5.0, I am not sure.  However, if I could get the tires to stay the car would
explode off the line.  I am thinking air-bags and stiffer suspension.  The
nose-lift off the line is crazy.  It seams that the car is using tons of
energy to keep the nose up throughout the acceleration.  5.0 Mustangs are
light and well geared.  The bodyman doing top-coats on my car said that you
can bend their frame with a sledge if you wanted to.  Hmmm, perhaps 4.10s
and 700R-4 would do my car lots of good.  I don't even want to think about
traction with that setup.  Igor.

Igor Todorovic

1981 Delta 88 4dr (455/th400/3.23posi)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 22:34:56 EST
From: MFATZII@aol.com
Subject: Q 4 the fellow stereo buffs

Sorry for the non-olds but here goes....

A friend of mine has come up with an Eclipse cd player and because of some
problems (hang on a sec) I installed a Panasonic for him.  Don't ask how he
got the deck because "I Know Nutzing" <-----from Hogan's Heroes   :)

Now for the prob. The deck, when connected to power reads (insert Security
Disk) I understand that once a disk is used for the security programming of
the deck that it must always remain the security disk (no other disk will
work) If  10 different disks are inserted trying to get the deck to work then
the deck is automatically void for use until sent to the manfu. for
recalibration.  Obviously since there are trillions of different titles out
there we wil never figure out what disk is the security disk.....

Is there a way to use the deck (for purposes other than a wheel chok) by
somehow over-riding the security code? Internally? Externally?


Ryan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 20:55:37 -0700
From: "Igor T. '81 DRB 455" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Re: Olds Vrs. 305 Pontiac....

>Hello, today, at my lunch break at school, i got a ride with my friend, who
>has a 1985 Trans-AM wiht the orignal 305's clock over 275,000miles without
a
>rebuild. We were at a stop light, and this 1970 442 pulls next to us.

I have two friends with 305s.  One has a '86 Cutlass with a 305, 204,000km
and the other has a '87 Trans Am with a auto and 305.  Both are dog motors
and use oil.  The Trans Am is slightly faster then the Cutlass (both 2.73s).
My '81 307 Regency with 2.56 and PROPANE can keep up with them off the line
and is faster after 60 (I am not joking).  My 455 Delta can leave both cars
by about 15 car-lengths + to 100 MPH.  Either your friend has good gears or
some other performance mods, the other guy was not trying or was being
stupid (like spinning the crap out of the tires) or something is wrong with
his 455.  I know that 2...something  rear sucks, but the 455 is far more
motor then a 305 of that vintage.  Your friend must have felt good after.  I
know what it is like to loose and win a street race with a car full of
teenagers against a car full of teenagers.  Cool.

Igor Todorovic
1981 Delta 88 4dr (455/th400/3.23posi)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 23:02:18 -0500
From: Don Sowers <dstaxpro@lex.infi.net>
Subject: For sale: 1986 Olds Station wagon

In the local paper right now, but I don't anything about the seller or
vehicle, so the standard disclaimers apply.

1986 Olds Cutlass Wagon, Michelin's, a/c, low miles, loaded.  Price is
listed at $1,500.  Phone number is 606 273-7766.  According to the phone
number, the car is located in Lexington, Ky which is about 10 miles from
where I am.  

Good luck to those that might be interested.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 23:06:53 -0500
From: Don Sowers <dstaxpro@lex.infi.net>
Subject: For Sale-1977 Olds Delta 88

Standard disclaimers apply.........

Great body, good engine, needs torque converter.  $395 OBO
Phone Number 606 272-5696  
Located in Lexington, Ky

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 23:05:57 EST
From: Sprotten25@aol.com
Subject: wing/spoiler/make it look better

What i would like to have (despartely need:-))) is a rear wing/spoiler for my
69 cutlass  what i need to know is where can i find one. how much is fair?

Dino

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 23:20:35 -0500
From: dclover@epix.net
Subject: Re: Alternator still high

Bad wire or the connections/terminals/crimp points.  Any corrosion or
burning of the wire-to-connector contact will place a voltage drop
across that connection.

DS Jones


Martin Thomas-WLTM07 wrote:
> 
> Find out why, regulator bad?  Bad wire to the regulator so it thinks
> it sees
> 9 volts, cranks it up to 15 just so it can see 12?
> 
> Yes, you will boil the electrolyte out of it, so keep it below 15 at
> the
> most, and that for a short time.
> 
> Thomas Martin
> 80 Turbo Trans AM
> 85 Cutlass Supreme Rocket 350 CCC
> 91 Bonneville LE 3800

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 23:21:06 EST
From: Gutlass66@aol.com
Subject: Re: Olds Vrs. 305 Pontiac....

THats all it is, his rearend, and his 5speed is really low (high #), the thing
ran just under 15 sec at open drags at SIR, just an edelbrock performer intake
and a 600cfm ( i think) qjet, ramair (its homemade), and a kn filter.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 23:19:05 EST
From: Gutlass66@aol.com
Subject: Re: Olds Vrs. 305 Pontiac....

That and the Trans Am has a 3.9:1 posi rearend, and 8" tires on teh back, you
can launch hard and the wheels wont spin

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 23:22:47 EST
From: Gutlass66@aol.com
Subject: Re: 5.0 Mustang Vs. 455

I wish I had to worry about keeping my tires on the ground, my little 330
won't spin with a WOT launch, you gotta powerbreak it to get a smokey burnout.
You guys with too much tourqe make me sick ;)
Kelly

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 23:46:28 -0500
From: "Arnold, W D" <w.d.arnold@lmco.com>
Subject: RE: wing/spoiler/make it look better

Year-One sells Repros for $249.
A fellow in the paper ( here in Atlanta ) has one that he says is a negot.
$200 bill.

I added one to mine and whoa !  It looked great... People now say to me
'That car must be *REAL* fast to have a wing back there to hold the back end
down !?! "  
To me, it's on mainly for looks instead of adding more rear downforce.  I
pound the pavement 1/8 mile at a time and the car never sees 100+ mph. 

Was the 'rear wing' really designed to make more downforce or just more curb
appeal ?  

Donny A.
72 "winged" 442

> ----------
> From: 	Sprotten25@aol.com[SMTP:Sprotten25@aol.com]
> Reply To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Sent: 	Wednesday, December 09, 1998 11:05 PM
> To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: 	wing/spoiler/make it look better
> 
> What i would like to have (despartely need:-))) is a rear wing/spoiler for
> my
> 69 cutlass  what i need to know is where can i find one. how much is fair?
> 
> Dino
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 23:42:17 EST
From: RARE73OLDS@aol.com
Subject: 73 olds cutlass S 455/4spd question

 My name is Harry and I own the 73 cutlass S 455/4spd with 8,900 orig miles
thats on the carshow area of  442.com. Is there anyone else out there with a
cutlass like mine and does anyone no how many cutlass S 455/4spds were made.I
have found 3 73 cutlass supreme 455/4spds and 4 442s with 455/4spds all of
which have no a/c.Also is there any two/tone paint scheme cars out there like
my 73. I know there were 751 4spd cutlass' made that year,including small
block and bigblock supremes and S's all together. There has to be a breakdown
somewhere because all big block 4spds have a code in the vin # fifth digit of
"V".Any help or another person of which had or still has a car like mine
please contact me. Thanks for your time ...Harry  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 20:56:53 -0800
From: Greg Rollin <supercars@transport.com>
Subject: Traction (was 5.0....

Igor T. '81 DRB 455 wrote:
> 
>  (snip)    However, if I could get the tires to stay the car would
> explode off the line.  I am thinking air-bags and stiffer suspension.  The
> nose-lift off the line is crazy.  It seams that the car is using tons of
> energy to keep the nose up throughout the acceleration.  5.0 Mustangs are
> light and well geared.  
> 
> Igor Todorovic




Igor,

To improve traction on a car with rear coil springs,
you will want to use weaker rear springs, NOT stiffer
ones.  The desired effect is to distribute as much 
of the vehicles weight on the rear tires as possible.
Thus, the nose lift is a good thing.  As this is allowing
the weight to "transfer" to the rear of the vehicle.    
For straight line acceleration, there are many ways
to tune the stock suspension for better weight transfer
for improved traction.  However, the price for these
kind of modifications is a loss of any cornering
abilities.  As I have said before, it is not possible
for a suspension to be setup setup for corners AND
straight line.  Any compromise will result in a car
that does neither one well.         
 

 
Greg Rollin
Supercars Unlimited (Where Cutlass/4-4-2 is ALL we do!)
503-244-8249

Web site:
http://www.supercarsunlimited.com

E-mail: supercars@transport.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:11:13 -0500
From: "Mike Rothe." <hurstolds@xtalwind.net>
Subject: Re: Pearl White/White

> The pigskin texture on the hardtops IS a little weird. I like the texture of
> the convertible vinyl better...
> 
That's LEVANT grain on the hardtop.  The interior has the fake pigskin. 
Looks like little holes in the material where the hair would be...you'd
know it if you saw it.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:28:18 -0500
From: "Arnold, W D" <w.d.arnold@lmco.com>
Subject: RE: Traction (was 5.0....

	Greg Rollin wrote:
> As I have said before, it is not possible
> for a suspension to be setup setup for corners AND
> straight line.  Any compromise will result in a car
> that does neither one well.         
> 
> Greg Rollin
> 
Well said Greg.

One very simple trick to transfer the weight to the back is to take the sway
bar links off.  You can leave the sway bar bolted in *OR* take it out to
reduce front end weight by what? 25-30 lbs?
If you did that AND put in a set of 90-10's, your front end would pop up and
stay up. 

Oh yeah, with this setup you'd absolutely have to forget about handling.
Forget about those hairpin turns at 45, You'd be peeling your Levi's off due
to accidental crapage in the pantage !!! ( I've been there, done that, and
got the jeans to prove it !!! )

Donny A  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 23:27:18 -0600
From: "mbloomer" <mbloomer@gateway.net>
Subject: Re: 5.0 Mustang Vs. 455

>Two big problems are LACK OF TRACTION
>and high-weight.
>The sucker will not hook in first at WOT

Igor,

First thing is that if I remember correctly you said in another
post that you have 255 BFG T/A's all the way around.  My 
72 had 295 T/A's posi 3.43's and would spin at more than
1/4 throttle (2500 rpm).  These tires suck for holeshots and
if your going to get serious about getting off the line the first 
thing you need to do is change rear tires.  It is often the case
that a good set of tires is the single biggest improvement 
you can make to a car.  No matter how good your suspension
is your never going to hook up on a set of hard tires.  You 
would see a BIG improvement with a set of 10 inch Hoosiers
or Mickey Thompson's which are bias ply but are very sticky.
(yes I do know your not supposed to drive with bias plies on 
the rear and radials on the front but that only matters in cornering,
I'm talking straight line here)

>  I am thinking air-bags and stiffer suspension.  The
>nose-lift off the line is crazy.  It seams that the car is using tons of
>energy to keep the nose up throughout the acceleration.  

Nose lift is good.  Stiffer suspension is bad.  Reason is that the
nose lifting is purely weight transfer to the rear of the car.  Old
school trick is to put a set of worn out shocks on the front and 
disconnect the sway bar to ease weight transfer.  If the nose
lifts you are getting SOME traction cuz it's the rear wheels that
are lifting the front end.  You also want a relatively soft rear susp.
with a set of 90/10 shocks (note for those that don't know.  90/10
is the shocks compression/rebound rating.  Normally a shock is
50/50 but a 90/10 shock will let the rear "sqat" easily but not go
back up as in wheel hop).  Use the airbags to keep the car straight.
Also consider getting as much wieght as you can off the front end
if your really serious about hooking up.  Keep in mind that taking 
10 lbs off the extreme nose of the car can equal more than 100 lbs
taken out of the middle in a long car due to lever effect.  Also try
putting your 307 engine in the trunk for ballast (half-kidding).

Mike B
mbloomer@gateway.net
ICQ# 19113713
72 Cutlass S (RIP)
68 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:30:20 -0500
From: "Mike Rothe." <hurstolds@xtalwind.net>
Subject: Re: wing/spoiler/make it look better

> To me, it's on mainly for looks instead of adding more rear downforce.  I
> pound the pavement 1/8 mile at a time and the car never sees 100+ mph.
> 
> Was the 'rear wing' really designed to make more downforce or just more curb
> appeal ?

Both. The design is such that an actual downforce is obtained the faster
you go.  How much it really adds to holding the tires on the road, well,
doubtful if enough!!!  If you notice the shape, the top is rather flat,
and the bottom is curved. Like an upside down airplane wing.  So you get
"negative" lift, or a downward force at high speeds.

Of course, you may need to be going 130+ to realize its benefits...  :)

But to answer the question about addding a wing to the 69, the trunklid
mounting area for the wing is the exact same locations as the 70-72
wing.  70-72 assembly manual has drilling and mounting data.  But if
it's a convertible, you'll need to modify it slightly to make it fit
right.  For that matter, adding it to a 68 would be a piece of cake too.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:33:00 EST
From: Gutlass66@aol.com
Subject: Re: wing/spoiler/make it look better

Yeah, year one says it can be added to 68-72

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 21:21:57 -0800
From: Greg Rollin <supercars@transport.com>
Subject: Re: wing/spoiler/make it look better

Arnold, W D wrote:
> 
> Was the 'rear wing' really designed to make more downforce or just more curb
> appeal ?
> 
> Donny A.




The W-35 rear deck spoiler first appeared on the 1969
Hurst/Olds.  And is based on the wing design of a Cessna
airplane.  The reported downforce figures are 15 lbs at
60 mph and 64 lbs at 120 mph.  These being relativity
low figures, I'd say aesthetics play a larger role in 
its significance.   


Greg Rollin
Supercars Unlimited (Where Cutlass/4-4-2 is ALL we do!)
503-244-8249

Web site:
http://www.supercarsunlimited.com

E-mail: supercars@transport.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:31:44 EST
From: Gutlass66@aol.com
Subject: Re: 5.0 Mustang Vs. 455

Or race a 305 Trans-Am, and get back to me..... :P
Kelly

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:38:06 EST
From: Gutlass66@aol.com
Subject: Re: Clean Air Act

We have that in the STATES. All cars from 1968 up (atleast in Washington) have
to be tested

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:42:25 -0500
From: "Arnold, W D" <w.d.arnold@lmco.com>
Subject: RE: 5.0 Mustang Vs. 455

Igor wrote:
The sucker will not hook in first at WOT.  It will smoke and fishtail,
sitting flat at 4500 when I step on it.  
> Then, when it catches traction I
> shift after no-time at 4500.  Depending on road and so on, second gear
> shift
> may light the tires pretty good as well.  
> 
> 
Ahhhhh. The joys of owning olds big blocks....   

I remember in highschool folks thought your car wouldn't 'run' if you
couldn't smoke the tires off of it.  Traction was inversely proportional to
how 'bad' it was.  We were kinda stupid then, huh?

Donny

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 23:46:43 -0600
From: "mbloomer" <mbloomer@gateway.net>
Subject: Re: Olds Vrs. 305 Pontiac....

I would like to remind everyone that street racing can be very dangerous
(have personally seen bystanders get killed) and if your going to do it
be smart about it.  Do it away from cross traffic, pedestrians (ESPECIALLY
CHILDREN), and of course the fuzz.  When I was 18 got clocked at 82 in
a 35 back in Virginia.  Was easily convicted of Reckless Driving, sentenced
to 10 days in jail, $400 fine, and 6 months suspended license and I deserved
it.  I was out messing around by myself (wasn't even racing someone else)
and got caught.  Never saw the cop cuz he was down a side street and just
happened to clock me (I got off the gas at 110 and the cop caught up at a
red light 5 minutes later).  Thankfully I've never been the cause of any
catastrophy behind the wheel but back in VA I just happened to be present
with a friend when two guys decided to run.  Wasn't much traffic and they
pulled up to the stoplight.  Light went green and they went.  As they came
to
a red stoplight neither one let off and apparently neither saw the pickup
that
was sitting on the cross street waiting to turn.  I don't think the guy in
the
pickup ever saw what hit him.  The police couldn't pinpoint the speed but
said they were going "well in excess of 100 mph" as both cars slammed
into the truck that pulled in front of them.  I am the last one to be a
safety
nazi since I'm just as guilty as everyone else but just keep things in
perspective, and if your going to race on the street, be safe about it.  Use
your head before it goes through the windshield.

Mike B
mbloomer@gateway.net
ICQ# 19113713
72 Cutlass S (RIP)
68 Cutlass Supreme


>Hello, today, at my lunch break at school, i got a ride with my friend, who
>has a 1985 Trans-AM wiht the orignal 305's clock over 275,000miles without
a
>rebuild. We were at a stop light, and this 1970 442 pulls next to us. Me,
>being an Olds fan, told my friend to dump the cluch right before the light.
He
>did, the tires spun, the 442 did the same, we had a little race going...My
>friend let off the gas, and SMOKED the guy to the next light....the guy was
>PISSED....He revs the living piss out of the Olds, my friend beat his ass
>again....We got the burger king, the guy has a 455, 4bbl, all stock,
2.2:1rear
>end or somthing, thats why...But it was still funny, I mean, this is truly
a
>POS (the transam)...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 22:56:47 -0700
From: Oldsmagnet <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Heads Up Display

Yeah...  Sure...  you need to spend 15 grand on a fancy windshield...  one that
you can see through.  The ~only~ thing these "special~ windshields contain is a
glare screen.  Without it, the display is ~slightly~ blurred, actually more 
like
a faint ~ghost~ of the image behind itself.  You have to look for it to notice
it as a problem.  At least on the Rockit, which ~doesn't~ have a special
windshield ($115 installed.)

I've done the retro myself, works well, but looks like hell, this big box on 
the
dash.  But it's plenty cool to drive, regardless.  

As for what you'll need, well, concentrate on finding one, first.  They all 
vary
slightly, you'll need the projector assembly, usually containing the main
circuitry also, and the location adjuster (some models included that within the
projector, others had a divorced unit.  These were attached via cable.) 
Portions of the cables should be maintained, enough to splice into, or 
determine
colors from original application.



Oldsmagnet - Charley Buehner @ Sidney Montana |\      |-------|   
mailto:buehner@lyrea.com To mail direct to me |/\|=|  |   |   |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner See my homepage |\ |=|  |   |   |
http://members.tripod.com/~Oldsmagnet Mine too|<||=|  |   |   |
     "I SEEK YOU!"  ICQ # 20418760            |/ |=|  |  / \  |
http://cyberglyphs.com/gbody/ G-Body ListHome |\/|=|  | / | \ |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner/listfaq.htm     |/      |___|___|

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:40:49 EST
From: Gutlass66@aol.com
Subject: Re: Clean Air Act

Oh yeah, this isnt against Canadians, I am a Canadian that lives in the
states, LONG LIVE CANADA!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 23:00:47 -0700
From: Oldsmagnet <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Re: Q 4 the fellow stereo buffs

> Is there a way to use the deck (for purposes other than a wheel chok) by
> somehow over-riding the security code? Internally? Externally?

Nope.  Gotta either obtain the security disc from whomever programmed it, or
send it off for resetting.  When sent off, it will go through a Serial Number
search, to ensure it hasn't been reported stolen.  That security disc thing,
along with the low preamp outputs we've seen, has given us (at our store) a
less-that-stellar impression of the Eclipse units, although they do have an
excellent product history.  Still not impressed with them, regardless of their
specs on paper... personally.

- -- 

Oldsmagnet - Charley Buehner @ Sidney Montana |\      |-------|   
mailto:buehner@lyrea.com To mail direct to me |/\|=|  |   |   |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner See my homepage |\ |=|  |   |   |
http://members.tripod.com/~Oldsmagnet Mine too|<||=|  |   |   |
     "I SEEK YOU!"  ICQ # 20418760            |/ |=|  |  / \  |
http://cyberglyphs.com/gbody/ G-Body ListHome |\/|=|  | / | \ |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner/listfaq.htm     |/      |___|___|

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 23:03:19 -0700
From: Oldsmagnet <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Re: wing/spoiler/make it look better

> > Was the 'rear wing' really designed to make more downforce or just more 
curb
> > appeal ?
> The W-35 rear deck spoiler first appeared on the 1969
> Hurst/Olds.  And is based on the wing design of a Cessna
> airplane.  The reported downforce figures are 15 lbs at
> 60 mph and 64 lbs at 120 mph.  

and I believe around 100 lbs around 120 mpg for the FE3X G-body.  If memory
serves.


- -- 

Oldsmagnet - Charley Buehner @ Sidney Montana |\      |-------|   
mailto:buehner@lyrea.com To mail direct to me |/\|=|  |   |   |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner See my homepage |\ |=|  |   |   |
http://members.tripod.com/~Oldsmagnet Mine too|<||=|  |   |   |
     "I SEEK YOU!"  ICQ # 20418760            |/ |=|  |  / \  |
http://cyberglyphs.com/gbody/ G-Body ListHome |\/|=|  | / | \ |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner/listfaq.htm     |/      |___|___|

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:03:16 -0600 (CST)
From: blue442@webtv.net
Subject: 68 Body Mods

Hello all,
I've been considering removing the drip rails from my 68 442, non-post.
I figure it will have less wind noise and be a very subtle finishing
touch.  I smoothed, dechromed and painted the rails body color when I
painted the car about 4 years ago, and I'd like to go a little further.
Have any listers done this?  If I do this will I become a registered
Olds molester?  I'll sleep on this one for months, if not years.  Just
can't do this without heavy consideration.

Drive it like you stole it, 
Jeff Carter

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 01:06:40 EST
From: Gutlass66@aol.com
Subject: Re: 68 Body Mods

dont do it, please, leave the olds's intached, get a chevy and cut the hell
out of it

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 01:03:19 EST
From: LooseCanno@aol.com
Subject: Re: Q 4 the fellow stereo buffs

Anyone who helps a guy install a stolen stereo is NOT cool.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 01:12:59 EST
From: Gutlass66@aol.com
Subject: Re: Q 4 the fellow stereo buffs

stealing stuff is dumb, get a life

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 01:12:07 EST
From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Subject: Wanted! a set of Batten Heads

Hello all and one on the Oldsmobile mail list and digest.  I am in search of a
set of Batten Inc cast iron heads.  They are for a good friend of mine that is
going to race EZ street class in NMCA and NSCA sanction events.  So he wants
to run a 455 Olds engine that has been bored and stroked to 513 cubic inches.
Then add a 400hp nitrous system to it to compete.  This is how Bill Travato
and Jim Craig are racing there Oldsmobiles.  Not exactly like that, but close.

This is what the problem is, Batten made both cast iron and alum heads for
Oldsmobile big blocks.  In order to run EZ street, the heads must be cast
iron.
So any help would be appreciated.

W MACHINES (Mark Prince)
wmachines@aol.com
72 442 W-30 race rocket
see the car that the heads are going on at
http://members.aol.com/wmachines/site5.html
and look for Tom Backitis's car.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:34:20 -0600
From: "Peter Landowski" <PETTRIX@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: wing/spoiler/make it look better

Fusick - Brothers - Parts Place - they all sell the sing and it goes
anywhere from $300.00 to $380.00
Pettrix@prodigy.net

- ----------
> From: Sprotten25@aol.com
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: wing/spoiler/make it look better
> Date: Wednesday, December 09, 1998 10:05 PM
> 
> What i would like to have (despartely need:-))) is a rear wing/spoiler
for my
> 69 cutlass  what i need to know is where can i find one. how much is
fair?
> 
> Dino

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 23:28:56 -0700
From: Oldsmagnet <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Re: Q 4 the fellow stereo buffs

> stealing stuff is dumb, get a life
> > Anyone who helps a guy install a stolen stereo is NOT cool.

Sure, well said.  ~BUT~ it was not disclosed where it came from.  It may be
stolen, it may not!  Let's not start knocking people down here unecessarily,
OK?  A ~little~ diplomacy, is that ~too~ much to ask???  Jeez folks.  I agree
wholeheartedly wit ~both~ the above statements involving ~stolen~ equipment. 
But ~WE~ don't have any evidence this equipment is stolen, so let's not start
giving anybody @#$# over it.  For all we know, he paid $40 at a pawn shop for
it.  I'd not brag about it either.  If it ~is~ stolen, justice will come, since
the unit must be sent off for resetting.  But, without the ESN disc, stolen or
legit, he'll still have to send it off, at a cost to his pocketbook.  I know,
because we just sent one off last month.  With all proper paperwork from the
original owner, and in correlation with the original sales dealer.  But it was
still a pain in ~our~ arse, regardless of its history.  Turns out (which we
already knew) it was fully legit, and we were able to re-sell a completely
reconditioned unit.

And, for what it's worth, I ~hope~ I'm correctly giving you the benefit of the
doubt as to the status of this equipment.  As I said, I agree with the prior
statements regarding ~stolen~ equipment.  I only hope this is not the case.  

- -- 

Oldsmagnet - Charley Buehner @ Sidney Montana |\      |-------|   
mailto:buehner@lyrea.com To mail direct to me |/\|=|  |   |   |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner See my homepage |\ |=|  |   |   |
http://members.tripod.com/~Oldsmagnet Mine too|<||=|  |   |   |
     "I SEEK YOU!"  ICQ # 20418760            |/ |=|  |  / \  |
http://cyberglyphs.com/gbody/ G-Body ListHome |\/|=|  | / | \ |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner/listfaq.htm     |/      |___|___|

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 23:41:02 -0700
From: "Igor T. '81 DRB 455" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Re: 5.0 Mustang Vs. 455

>Nose lift is good.  Stiffer suspension is bad.  Reason is that the
>nose lifting is purely weight transfer to the rear of the car.  Old
>school trick is to put a set of worn out shocks on the front and
>disconnect the sway bar to ease weight transfer.  If the nose
>lifts you are getting SOME traction cuz it's the rear wheels that
>are lifting the front end.  You also want a relatively soft rear susp.
>with a set of 90/10 shocks (note for those that don't know.  90/10
>is the shocks compression/rebound rating.

Man, you are making me panic here.  Since this is to be my street car ONLY,
slicks are out of the question.  First they are not cheap, second I can't
use them daily.  I knew that the BFGoodrich tires were crap for traction.
Maybe I should get some other tires for the back (but still street).  I want
stiffer suspension so that the car would handle better.  It seams that I
will have less traction that way, so in a handling gain I loose traction.
Great.  I have a new set of TRW Custom Crusier Heavy Duty springs on my
Regency and I will take them out and put into into the Delta.  Also, heavy
duty shocks and coil-over-shock springs are going on the car.  This should
stiffen the suspension.  I hope traction is not a problem.  Since the
bumpers are off the car now (for painting) it seams quite a bit faster.  The
bumpers don't weight that much but then again it all adds up.

 >Use the airbags to keep the car straight.
>Also consider getting as much wieght as you can off the front end
>if your really serious about hooking up.  Keep in mind that taking
>10 lbs off the extreme nose of the car can equal more than 100 lbs
>taken out of the middle in a long car due to lever effect.  Also try
>putting your 307 engine in the trunk for ballast (half-kidding).


As mention above, the bumpers are off.  It has worst traction now.  I
actually thought about the 307 block (serious) but adding weight to a big
ass Delta will just slow me down.  Although, imagine a '81 Delta with a 455
in the front and a complete, detailed 307 in the trunk just for show.  That
would be cool.  Just joking.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 23:50:47 -0700
From: "Igor T. '81 DRB 455" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Re: Olds Vrs. 305 Pontiac....

  I don't think the guy in
>the
>pickup ever saw what hit him.  The police couldn't pinpoint the speed but
>said they were going "well in excess of 100 mph" as both cars slammed
>into the truck that pulled in front of them.  I am the last one to be a
>safety
>nazi since I'm just as guilty as everyone else but just keep things in
>perspective, and if your going to race on the street, be safe about it.
Use
>your head before it goes through the windshield.


Oh man.  That must have been horrifying to see.  I am guilty as well.  95%
of the time me and my friends (and even sometimes people we meet at the
light) go out into the country.  Close to where I live there is a free-way.
It has two lanes and one extra side lane on each side.  At night it is
almost deserted.  There is lots of room and the limit is 75 mph.  We race to
85 or 90 but that is it.  You are right though, you NEVER know what can
happen.  Lucky there is lots of lights around my area on a 55 mph high-way
where there is no pedestrians.  My motto is that if there is traffic and
pedestrians I don't go more then 10-15 over.  The best is to go into the
country.  Sometimes, however, my stupidity gets the better of me.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 23:56:52 -0700
From: "Igor T. '81 DRB 455" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Re: Traction (was 5.0....

>Oh yeah, with this setup you'd absolutely have to forget about handling.
>Forget about those hairpin turns at 45, You'd be peeling your Levi's off
due
>to accidental crapage in the pantage !!! ( I've been there, done that, and
>got the jeans to prove it !!! )


HA HA HA.  That is a good one.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 01:13:03 -0600
From: "mbloomer" <mbloomer@gateway.net>
Subject: Re: 5.0 Mustang Vs. 455

Igor wrote:
  Since this is to be my street car ONLY,
>slicks are out of the question.  First they are not cheap, second I can't
>use them daily.  I knew that the BFGoodrich tires were crap for traction.
>Maybe I should get some other tires for the back (but still street).

I was referring to the street legal versions of the Hoosier & M/T's.
Not necessarilly the stret legal slicks with nil tread but the sticky
P-metrics.  Not as good as slicks but a lot better than the T/A's.

>As mention above, the bumpers are off.  It has worst traction now.  I
>actually thought about the 307 block (serious) but adding weight to a big
>ass Delta will just slow me down.  Although, imagine a '81 Delta with a 455
>in the front and a complete, detailed 307 in the trunk just for show.  That
>would be cool.  Just joking.


If you look at a lot of drag cars they run 'glass front bumpers but
steel in the rear.  When you take weight off the rear it gives you
worse traction but less weight in the front gives you better
weight transfer to the rear so better traction.  The idea here is
to take weight off the front and put it in the rear like relocating
the battery to the trunk.  Typically, the battery is very far forward
and taking it off the nose of the car and adding it to the weight
on the back tires can make a lot of difference.

Mike B
mbloomer@gateway.net
ICQ# 19113713
72 Cutlass S (RIP)
68 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 01:52:45 -0600
From: Brian Ammons <b_ammons@mail.utexas.edu>
Subject: Re: 5.0 Mustang Vs. 455

Although, imagine a '81 Delta with a 455
>in the front and a complete, detailed 307 in the trunk just for show.  That
>would be cool.  Just joking.


No, that really would be cool.
- -------------------------------------------------------------
 Brian Ammons		 Universal Internet # (ICQ) - 3585737
 MIS Major - UT Austin	 b_ammons@mail.utexas.edu
 2903 Breeze Terrace	 http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~ammons/
 Austin, TX 78722	Home :	(512) 236-8088 (Austin)
 1984 Oldsmobile		(713) 776-2110 (Houston)
	Delta 88	Pager:	(512) 483-8056
 	  4-door		(713) 318-5938	
- -------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:27:58 -0700
From: "Igor T. '81 DRB 455" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Re: Olds Vrs. 305 Pontiac....

>THats all it is, his rearend, and his 5speed is really low (high #), the
thing
>ran just under 15 sec at open drags at SIR, just an edelbrock performer
intake
>and a 600cfm ( i think) qjet, ramair (its homemade), and a kn filter.

That is a pretty good time.  I have a '81 Dodge MaxiVan (got it for free
from girlfriends dad as a parts hauler, van looks rough but works great).
Anyway, it has a 367 motor and a 727 trans.  Motor was rebuilt about 50,000
miles ago with a RV cam and holly 600.  It has 4.10s (used to tow a 29').
It is far from a street machine but is pretty damn good off the line.  Most
people have a difficult time to keep up with the huge rust-bucket.  I love
those 4.10s but they yield poor mileage and lousy top speed.  Power is
awesome, though.  I once had it at 5600 RPM in third (about 115 mph).  It
must have been airborne couse I could not feel the road anymore (this was in
the country).  This was at 2:00AM and my friend in his '79 GMC (mild 350,
3.73s) observed from behind as a huge cloud of smoke belted from the
tailpipe.  I COULD SEE IT IN THE MIRROR AT NIGHT.  Motor ran great after
that.  I never respected MOPARs (dads '95 Intrepid blues) but have a
different opinion now.  Anyway, my point is that this Van would be nothing
if it were not for those 4.10s.  My dream is 4.10s and a TH700R4 in my
Delta.  If I could hook the tires, it would definitely haul ass.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:46:04 -0700
From: "Igor T. '81 DRB 455" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Re: 5.0 Mustang Vs. 455

I heard about "put weight into the back".  When I saw that guys put
batteries in the trunk I though that it was a waste of time because the bat.
is not that heavy.  BUT, since you mentioned the lever effect, it got me
thinking.  Yes, the rear bumper/taillights/etc. are off so that is probably
why traction is worse.  What could I do to get rid of fron't weight.  Batter
is a good idea.  Edelbrock intake is not cause it costs $499 CAN here and
that is way too much for me.

>If you look at a lot of drag cars they run 'glass front bumpers but
>steel in the rear.  When you take weight off the rear it gives you
>worse traction but less weight in the front gives you better
>weight transfer to the rear so better traction.  The idea here is
>to take weight off the front and put it in the rear like relocating
>the battery to the trunk.  Typically, the battery is very far forward
>and taking it off the nose of the car and adding it to the weight
>on the back tires can make a lot of difference.
>
>Mike B
>mbloomer@gateway.net
>ICQ# 19113713
>72 Cutlass S (RIP)
>68 Cutlass Supreme
>
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 02:03:21 -0600
From: Brian Ammons <b_ammons@mail.utexas.edu>
Subject: Quadrajets/Holleys/Metering Rods/Fuel Injection/Performance/Fuel 
Economy/Reliability

I was talking with my friend in Houston who got me into Olds, and he was
talking about the carb setup that he is using on his B-U-I-L-T 455 in a 70
W-30 HT.  He said that he ordered a reworked Quadrajet from Custom Carbs,
in California ($330 bucks!), only to have it show up at his door "not
working".  He sent it back, and is awaiting a new/neused one from them, but
in the meantime he couldn't just leave the car sitting there, right?

He put the original W-30 carb on his B-U-I-L-T motor (bought the car with
original everything, even the complete ram-air setup, but kept the original
block in original shape, for restore value), and he said that that works
pretty damn well, although it can't really keep up with the motor when he's
really slamming it.  He also said that the Custom Carb is going to deliver
the best performance, and also that fuel economy wouldn't be that bad.  I
thought he was joking (about the fuel economy), but he said no, it was all
about the Quadrajet.

My question is this: He said that he thought that the Quadrajet was "almost
like fuel injection" because of the "metering rods", and that those, with
the secondaries closed, only let the right amount of fuel into the process,
whereas a Holley just "dumps fuel in there".  He said the drawback to a
Quadrajet was that you couldn't do all the hot-rod tinkering to it like you
could with Holley, but that for a street car it was really the best
combination of performance, reliability, and fuel economy.

I have NO reason to doubt any of this, and if this forum didn't exist I
would treat it as gospel.  I am wondering what ya'll think about these
statements.
- -------------------------------------------------------------
 Brian Ammons		 Universal Internet # (ICQ) - 3585737
 MIS Major - UT Austin	 b_ammons@mail.utexas.edu
 2903 Breeze Terrace	 http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~ammons/
 Austin, TX 78722	Home :	(512) 236-8088 (Austin)
 1984 Oldsmobile		(713) 776-2110 (Houston)
	Delta 88	Pager:	(512) 483-8056
 	  4-door		(713) 318-5938	
- -------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:54:45 -0700
From: "Igor T. '81 DRB 455" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Re: 5.0 Mustang Vs. 455

>Although, imagine a '81 Delta with a 455
>>in the front and a complete, detailed 307 in the trunk just for show.
That
>>would be cool.  Just joking.
>
>
>No, that really would be cool.


It would be kind of neat.  But then imagine the work.  Pull the gas tank and
install a remote fuel cell (a decent size one to feed the 455).  Boost the
car so that the oil pan would not hit the rear-end.  Cut the trunk, weld
some kind of frame to bolt on the 307.  Since you are already there, add a
cooling system and a toronado transaxle and make it functional.  Heck, why
put a 307 when you can have a 455.  I could turn my "daily driver" Delta
into a 4-wheel drive, dual 455 like that Cutlass from the 70s.  Ohhh,
dreams, dreams.  Hell, these dreams are doing a pretty good job keeping me
from studying for my Accounting final on Friday.  I always post a lot of
questions/comments before finals/tests.  It is some sub-concerns way of
keeping myself from studying.  GOD DAMN OLDSMOBILES AGAIN.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 02:07:33 -0600
From: Brian Ammons <b_ammons@mail.utexas.edu>
Subject: Re: 5.0 Mustang Vs. 455

Hell, these dreams are doing a pretty good job keeping me
>from studying for my Accounting final on Friday.  I always post a lot of
>questions/comments before finals/tests.  It is some sub-concerns way of
>keeping myself from studying.  GOD DAMN OLDSMOBILES AGAIN.

DUDE!  I have an Accounting final on Friday too!  AND a Government final in
approximately 7 hours.  I am exactly the same way!
- -------------------------------------------------------------
 Brian Ammons		 Universal Internet # (ICQ) - 3585737
 MIS Major - UT Austin	 b_ammons@mail.utexas.edu
 2903 Breeze Terrace	 http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~ammons/
 Austin, TX 78722	Home :	(512) 236-8088 (Austin)
 1984 Oldsmobile		(713) 776-2110 (Houston)
	Delta 88	Pager:	(512) 483-8056
 	  4-door		(713) 318-5938	
- -------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 01:14:52 -0700
From: "Igor T. '81 DRB 455" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Re: 5.0 Mustang Vs. 455

>DUDE!  I have an Accounting final on Friday too!  AND a Government final in
>approximately 7 hours.  I am exactly the same way!
> MIS Major - UT Austin b_ammons@mail.utexas.edu


Are you majoring in MIS as in (Management Of Information Systems).  I am
going to (most likely) major in that as well.  I don't have to figure out
what I will do until next year.  Either MIS or Finance, I think.  It is 1:13
AM now and I gotta go to bed.  I have no hope on my ACCT on Friday, might as
well quit now.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 03:26:31 EST
From: DYeager535@aol.com
Subject: Re: Quadrajets/Holleys/Metering Rods/Fuel Injection/Performance/Fuel 
Economy/

In a message dated 12/10/98 12:00:14 AM Pacific Standard Time,
b_ammons@mail.utexas.edu writes:

<< My question is this: He said that he thought that the Quadrajet was "almost
 like fuel injection" because of the "metering rods", and that those, with
 the secondaries closed, only let the right amount of fuel into the process,
 whereas a Holley just "dumps fuel in there".  He said the drawback to a
 Quadrajet was that you couldn't do all the hot-rod tinkering to it like you
 could with Holley, but that for a street car it was really the best
 combination of performance, reliability, and fuel economy.
 
 I have NO reason to doubt any of this, and if this forum didn't exist I
 would treat it as gospel.  I am wondering what ya'll think about these
 statements. >>

       I don't think anyone would agree that a Quadrajet is like fuel
injection : ) (Not me anyway) I just think there are too many differences, at
least between MPFI, SPFI, whatever.  
     Even when the secondaries DO open, they still meter the correct amount of
fuel, as long as it is set up correctly. Vacuum, or lack thereof, "tells" the
secondaries when to open, and essentially how much to open, depending on the
vacuum/incoming air (that IS right correct?) The secondary metering rods are
tapered, therefore the more they are lifted by the (secondary) air valves(more
air into the motor at the same time) the more fuel let through.
      All of that adds up to the ability to theoretically have a 750cfm
carburetor on a smaller cubic inch engine (like a stock 307) and not have
problems with overcarburetion at low speeds. You try a mechanical secondary
750 on the same motor, and the results won't be nearly as favorable. ( I know,
I'm sure SOMEONE has had a 750 mech. secondary carb on a 307 that worked) The
Quadrajet has ports that act kind of like a "double shot" I guess, that as the
(secondary) air valves open, dumps fuel in to cover the transition. I
personally think these carbs are great...10-13 city/ 18 freeway
403/TH400/2.56, and HEAVY foot...they just start falling off when there isn't
enough vacuum to operate them. 
     By the way, anyone need a CCC carb off an Olds? ( I think, don't have
anything that will tell me what the application exactly was. THINK it may have
come off my '86 w/307.

Dorian 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 01:28:55 -0700
From: "Igor T. '81 DRB 455" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Re: Quadrajets/Holleys/Metering Rods/Fuel Injection/Performance/Fuel 
Economy/Reliability

To keep blabbing and not studying, I have something to add here.  With the
experience I had with my and my friends Holly and my Q-jets, I would have to
vote Q-jet.  Yes, Holly is king when it comes to ease of tuning.  Simple
jet/spring changes in a flash and decent all out performance.  However,
Q-jets seem much better derivability wise.  Better mileage and less "keeping
it in tune" problems.  Some people will vote Holly, some Q-jet.  It all
depends on what one is used to working with.  About the busted carb though,
I had the same problem.  After I finished the 455, I did not want to put a
emissions carb on it.  Ordered a '70 442 model carb from a local rebuilder.
Got it next day.  It looked great and had all the stuff I wanted.  Drove
with it for 3 days.  It never held fuel, but I was too busy worrying if my
first engine will granade itself, leaving the fuel problem for later.  On
the third damn day, when I tried my fist, long held WOTs, I was in for a
surprise.  The rebuilder used silicon between the bottom plate and the
mid-section.  After I torqued the carb down, the silicon squeezed out.
Vacuum and open 4-bbl plates pulled the silicon in. After the WOT, the
secondary plates would not close.  AND THIS WAS AT 2:00am also some 25 miles
(I can't even remember anymore) form home in the country.  I had to rev it
(i.e. drive in 1st and 2nd) to keep it running in order to get home.   Got
the second carb though and it has performed well since.   As far as "can't
keep up when punched", I think I know what the problem is.  Q-jets hold much
less fuel in their bowl then Holly or Edelbrock.  This means that on a big,
thirsty 455 the fuel-pump can't keep up the juice and the carb sucks dry.
One solution (if the problem is not severe) is to get an in-line fuel filter
and remove the internal one.  This will give the carb a bit more fuel
capacity and prevent this starvation problem.  I will do this on mine
because I have the same problem.

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #1655
*********************************

