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Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #1666


oldsmobile-digest     Tuesday, December 15 1998     Volume 01 : Number 1666



Re: stick shift trans with an auto crank
Re: add ANOTHER to the fleet... and going to digest
Re: Driving Lights suggestions needed
Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 #1664
Re: piston swap question
Re: piston swap question
re: 8000 rpm 350 [long]
Re: Nice weather
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Congratula=E7=F5es?= !
Re: deleted digests please help
Re: 68/69 Console
Re: Loud Fan
Service Manuals For Sale
Re: Batten vs Edelbrock flow #s
Diesel Service Manuals
Fisher Body Manuals For Sale
Electric Trouble Shooting Manuals For Sale
Re: Nice weather
parts car, session 5
Re: piston swap question
Attn Joe P. Re: Heater Blower Relay (a thread off of "70 A/C Wiring")
Re: 68 442 convert found?
Re: 8000 rpm 350 [long]
Re: 68 442 convert found////
Re: 8000 rpm 350 and some parameters
Re: Timing Chain replacement
ANYONE OUT THERE WITH A 73 CUTLASS S 455/4SPD?
UNBOUNCE: Translator Needed
Re: Olds problem
Re: no circulation, new water pump?
Re: Traction Bars on Delta
Re: Timing Chain replacement
Re: [Re: [Re: 70-72 W-30 Hood Stripes]]
Olds in movies
69 Parts Car in SoCal
Re: FARGO
Re: [Re: 70-72 W-30 Hood Stripes]
Re: [Re: [Re: 70-72 W-30 Hood Stripes]]
Re: Batten vs Edelbrock flow #s
(no subject)
Re: Loud Fan
Re: UNBOUNCE: Translator Needed
unsubbing for a while
Re: Batten vs Edelbrock flow #s
Re: oil pumps and restrictors
Re: oil pumps and restrictors
Re: 8000 rpm 350 [long]
Pilot Bearing Adaptor

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 18:29:24 -0500
From: David Brode <dbrode@hereintown.net>
Subject: Re: stick shift trans with an auto crank

> Hello all,

 I've used an auto crank with a stick tranny before. This is no big deal. You 
can have
a bushing machined or buy the one Mondello sells.  The bushing fits into the 
large
recess that locates the convertor in the crank.

You'll need to also do one of two thing;
1. grind the input shaft of the manual tranny off so it is just long enough to 
reach
the front of the "new" bushing.
NOTE: If you do this the tranny will no longer work with a stick shift crank.

2. drill a hole in the center of the crank a little larger than the input 
shaft to
make room for the input shaft.
NOTE: This hole will NOT locate the input shaft in the crank. The bushing does 
that.

 The hole does not need to be drilled on a lathe. The recess in the crank is 
tapered
so your starter bit will be located in the center.
NOTE: make sure you drill the hole deep enough so that the input shaft will 
not bottom
in the hole.

I've used an old bushing that was sold to convert an early 50's ch*vy 6 cyl 
from auto
to stick. Unfortunately this bushing is no longer manufactured.

Dave Brode
64 Cutlass

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 18:43:03 -0500
From: Mark Hahn <mahahn@fuse.net>
Subject: Re: add ANOTHER to the fleet... and going to digest

Don Sowers wrote:

> zcwp11@Access.ETSU.Edu wrote:
> >
> > Hello all...
> >
> > Just had to tell everybody about my latest purchase... actually... it's
> > not an Oldsmobile... well... actually not even GM... not even a CAR!!!!  I
> > am now the proud owner of a 1962 Ford F100 Fleetside... 200 bucks worth...
> > couldn't resist... I'm thinking PARTS HAULER ;-)
> ......
> >  I'm not kidding when I
> > say FLEET either... I'm up to 6 cars now!
>
> Clayton,
>
> You have to have at least 10 vehicles to have a fleet.  I've got 17
> currently, soon to be purged down to 8 or 9.  Charley probably has more
> than that.  I, too, have been kicking around the idea of a parts hauler.
> I can't seem to get enough parts into the Mobile Office (the Town Car),
> so I've ben half heartedly looking for a pickup of some sorts.  Know
> what I want, just can't afford it.  Reasonably late model diesel with
> standard transmission at a reasonable cost.  Don't think there's much
> chance on catching one of these, however.  Did see a 94 Ford pickup (300
> 6 banger, 4 spd, 21k miles) for 4200 that had a fire in the bed
> advertised.  Thought about going to take a look, but the timing isn't
> right and other things are going on right now.  Of course a fire in the
> bed could mean a pile of ashes sitting on top of the frame or something
> very simple.  Not crazy about the 6 though.  Now for 200 bucks, that
> would be another matter.  I wonder what the partsmobile of choice is
> among the Oldsmopites but I don't want to be responsible for a long
> thread on this.  Later gang......
>
> Don Sowers

I have a 1994 F*rd F-150 Supercab Long bed
300 Inline 6 cyl
208,000 Miles
She has never failed me.
Mark Hahn

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 17:42:30 -0600
From: "mbloomer" <mbloomer@gateway.net>
Subject: Re: Driving Lights suggestions needed

PIAA is about the highest quality you can get.  You pay for what you get
but even so they're rather expensive.  I have a magazine article that
rates and has listing for the various driving/fog lights from: Hella,
Toucan,
PIAA, Fet Catz, and Tenzo.  Don't have a scanner but If you let me know
what you want specifically I can paraphrase the article for you.  List's all
the
phone and fax #'s for the companies too.

Mike B
mbloomer@gateway.net
ICQ# 19113713
72 Cutlass S (RIP)
68 Cutlass Supreme

>Thinking about adding some driving lights to my '72 Cutlass.
>
>In a net search I found CATZ and PIAA.  Today at an auto parts place I
>found CEPECK about half the price of PIAA and looks identical.  Main
>difference I could see was that the wiring and relays were more generic
>(but there might be more differences inside).
>
>Looking for experience & suggestions.
>
>thanks,
>
>jp

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 18:58:40 -0500
From: "Jim & Sharon Brady" <bradyiii@shore.intercom.net>
Subject: Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 #1664

Mark,
    That really sucks!  Tell you what, you can have the mirror I took off of
my '73 Delta for free.  Seems like nothing is sacred these days...  The
mirror is in decent shape and fairly easy to install.  If you are interested
let me know.

Jim Brady
1973 Olds Delta88 Royale Convertible
http://members.tripod.com/~SuperOlds/JimDelta.html
bradyiii@shore.intercom.net
>
>Anyone have a mirror for a 1975 Olds Delta 88?
>
>Secondly, anyone know how to install one?
>  *Do I need the entire housing? Or just the mirror itself?
>  *What cable do I need to re-attach?
>
>Any and all hints or help is greatly appreciated.
>
>Now, how did I get in this situation?
>
>  I went to go to work Sunday morning and someone stole my
>mirror!!!!!!!!  I wish I could use worse language, but am trying to
>refrain myself.  Not sure if they stole for fun or parts, as there are 2
>other Olds Delta 88 of same year in town.  Also noticed that there is a
>bracket inside that looks broke.  Does that mean I will not be able to
>re-attach the mirror?  REALLY makes me mad though to know people do this
>to other people's cars.
>
>  Anyways, has anyone else had to replace a mirror before?  Please
>help.  Is a little hard to drive without my drivers side mirror right
>now.  If anyone has any suggestions, please let me know.  Thanks.
>
>Mark MacDonald
>1975 Delta 88 Royale Convertible (minus one mirror now!)
><http://home.earthlink.net/~greenmm>
>
>------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 16:17:52 -0700
From: "Igor T. '81 DRB 455" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Re: piston swap question

With 50,000 miles.  I don't know if I would take that chance.

>     You can supposedly get away with not rehoning if you can distinctly
see
>the previous hone marks. Dorian
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 16:20:01 -0700
From: "Igor T. '81 DRB 455" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Re: piston swap question

>Sorry, I just found the term "scrap" funny since I just paid $400 for a set
>with 50 miles less on them:(
>

Oh, was that 50 miles.  I thought it was 50,000.  That changes everything.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 19:19:20 -0500
From: David Brode <dbrode@hereintown.net>
Subject: re: 8000 rpm 350 [long]

Hello,
 The 8000 rpm 350 will no doubt be an interesting thread.

The following is merely my opinion. I'm in no way an expert. I've built a few 
stout
455+ inch motors, but only one small block, a 403. I don't think the 403 
should be
considered for a base for a serious high rpm project due to it's less than 
sturdy
block.

 I agree with the fellow who questioned the small[low] deck Olds' rep as a 
torque
motor. The bore and stroke of the 350 gives it great potential as a high rev hp
producer. It is not, by design, a torque motor.

 I think most would agree that a diesel block would be best for a serious 
effort, but
i think with a properly prepped 330 crank, and studs and bars on the mains, 
the early
gas 350 block should be good for 7000-7500[maybe more?].

 I also think that Batten heads would be ones first choice, with the 
Edelbrocks a
close second.

 I've always been interested  in more of a budget approach, though. I bet a sb 
with a
bore of 4.125"[362"] through  4.185"[373"], with a big solid lifter flat 
tappet cam,
and a "C" head with decent prep work[filled heatrisers, cutback exhaust side, 
good
porting, 2.07, 1.625" valves] would make a bunch of power for not a whole lot 
of
money.

  It would no doubt take a dome piston for the compression required to make 
this combo
work. A 373 incher with a "C" head cut to 70cc and a 9.5cc gasket and a "0" 
deck you
still would only finish about 10.4-1 or so, and this isn't allowing for a few 
cc's for
the valve notches you'd probably need for the big cam.
 I think you'd need a cut of 60 or 65 thou to get the "C" head down to 70cc. 
Anyone on
the list know how much you can cut a "C" head? Would an angle cut help much?
 I think a true 10.5-1 combo with a .550"-.575" cam would still work with a 
"C" head,
provided it had enough gear/convertor behind it, but i bet an 11.5-1 or 
12-1/.600-.650
lift combo would really turn heads at the track.

 A stock 350 rod, even with good prep might be marginal above 7000??? One 
could use
aftermarket Ch*vy sb 6" rods by cutting the rod journals to 2.1". They are very
affordable, especially in aluminum.

 I think that you'd need to think about stud girdles to spin over 7000, but as 
i said,
i'm no expert. The "C" head would kill the low end, so a  5.13 or so gear 
would be
needed, and a stick, or a 5500 or so convertor.

 I think the Edelbrock RPM would be ok to 6500, but not above. Anyone know 
anything of
the single planes that are available?

Thoughts? Flames?

Dave Brode
64 Cutlass

------------------------------


Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 18:25:59 -0600
From: f85@juno.com (Joe R Brockman)
Subject: Re: Nice weather

Does it hit even with an edelbrock intake?

JoeB


On Sun, 13 Dec 1998 19:20:16 EST Gutlass66@aol.com writes:
>Not quite sure if you know this, but an Edelbrock Carb wont fit on a 
>Olds
>without a spacer, the linkage thingie hits the manifold.
>

___________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 22:30:07 -0200
From: cobra <cobra@goldnet.com.br>
Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Congratula=E7=F5es?= !

Prezados senhores.
Desculpem-me por enviar este em língua portuguesa.
Possuo um Oldsmobile 88 Station Wagon "Custom Cruiser" 1972, V-8 455.
Aqui no Brasil é muito difícil mantê-lo pois, além da dificuldade com as
importações e, por tartar-se de um veículo antigo, as próprias
importadoras não nos fornecem catálogos de peças de reposição.
Adquiri este veículo em 02/08/82 e tenho verdadeira paixão por ele.
Sempre procurei mantê-lo rodando, com peças originais.
Pra se ter uma idéia das dificuldades encontradas, este carro utilizava
pneus L 78-15 BFGoodrich. Com muito custo, consegui adquirir o pneus
P-76 HR 78-15 FB SC Pirelli, fabricados aqui mesmo no Brasil para
exportação. Ocorre que já há 10 longos anos tento comprá-los e a Pirelli
informa que não os fabrica mais. Assim, não só com os pneus, tenho
encontrado dificuldades para adquirir um novo Carburador Rochester
4-Jet, pois a importadora informa que não os fabricam mais, bem como
outros vários ítens, como o vidro traseiro basculante elétrico.
Existem meios de adquirí-los ?
Existe um catálogo de peças a ser fornecido ?
Como adquirí-lo ?

Será que por aí existe alguma alma caridosa que possa traduzir este
e-mail ? Espero que sim e considero como um milagre de Natal.

Aguardo, se possível, uma resposta !

Feliz Natal à todos e um maravilhoso 1.999

Ubiratã Cobra Kaiser Leite
cobra@goldnet.com.br
São José do Rio Preto - São Paulo - Brazil

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 19:38:03 -0500
From: David Brode <dbrode@hereintown.net>
Subject: Re: deleted digests please help

Hello,
 Can someone please send me a copy of the #1663, and #1664 digests? I 
mistakenly
deleted them.  TIA
Dave Brode
64 Cutlass

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 20:06:09 -0500
From: "Mick Gillespie" <mgillespie@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: 68/69 Console

>Joe (Olds Guru),
>Thanks for the info.  Now get this.  Ken Snyder has a
>TH350 shifter and needs a Jetaway detent plate for
>his race car.  We've struck a mutually beneficial deal
>to swap detent plates and the best part is we both
>found the parts we thought we'd never find.  You've
>got to love this list!  BTW might as well pump you for
>info.  Do you know of anyplace that sells the indicator
>bezel for the 69?  Once again thanks for help.

Greg Rollin at Supercars Unlimited sells a nice indicator bezel for the 69.
He's a List member.
==============================================
Mick Gillespie
69 Cutlass Conv.
80 Toronado Brougham
mgillespie@sprynet.com
http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/mgillespie/oldspage.htm
==============================================

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 20:05:01 EST
From: CPEARLPARK@aol.com
Subject: Re: Loud Fan

Help a rookie understand... the difference between a clutch fan and a,
well..., a non-clutch fan ?  I've got a 71 442 with a noisy fan (7 blades) and
I'm not sure if it's original or not.  Thanks.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 20:08:21 EST
From: ANTIQOLDS@aol.com
Subject: Service Manuals For Sale

   I have the following Oldsmobile Chassis Service Manuals for sale, please
note various prices, add $5.00  S&H  to each book. 

1959 $25.00, 1968 $35.00, 1974 $35.00, 1975 $35.00, 1976 $35.00, 1977 $35.00,
1979 $35.00, 1980 $35.00, 1980 Omega $25.00, 1981 $35.00, 1982 Cutlass 88 98
Toro $35.00, 1982 Firenza $25.00, 1983 Cutlass 88 98 Toro $35.00, 1983,
Firenza Omega Ciera $25.00, 1984 Cutlass Delta 88  98  Custom Cruiser  Toro
$35.00, 1984 Firenza Omega Ciera $25.00, 1985 Cutlass Supreme Cust/Cruis  88
98  Toro  $35.00, 1985 (2 volumn) Firenza Calais Ciera  $40.00, 1986 Cutlass
Supreme Cutlass Salon Custom Cruiser  $35.00, 1987 Cutlass Supreme  Cutlass
Salon   Custom Cruiser  $35.00, 1987 Firenza Calais Ciera  88  98  $35.00,
1988 Calais $30.00, 1988  88-98 $35.00, 1989 Calais $30.00, 1989 Ciera $30.00,
1989  Toro $35.00, 1989 88-98  $35.00, 1990 Cutlass Supreme $35.00, 1990
Calais  $30.00, 1990 Custom Cruiser  $25.00, 1990 Toro/Trofeo $35.00, 1991
Cutlass Supreme $35.00, 1991 Toro  $35.00, 1992 Custum Cruiser $30.00, 1992
88  $35.00, 1992  98 $35.00, 1992 Achieva $35.00, 1992 Ciera $35.00, 1992
Cutlass Supreme $35.00.

Everett   ANTIQOLDS@AOL.COM

E & G Automotive
1-401-435-7139

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 20:09:34 -0500
From: David Brode <dbrode@hereintown.net>
Subject: Re: Batten vs Edelbrock flow #s

> Hello,

 Here's flow info on the Battens, unported, with 2.055"/1.6" valves. It looks 
like
they may have allot more potential for a serious effort than the Edelbrocks. 
This info
is a bit old, and i think the Battens may have been improved a bit since.
[@28"]
Int[#3];
.200 - 136.5
.300 - 178.5
.400 - 216
.500 - 246
.600 - 268.5
.600 - 268.5
.700 - 280.5
.800 - 280.5

exh;
.200 - 108
.300 - 141
.400 - 157
.500 - 175
.600 - 186
.700 - 193.5
.800 - 198

I wonder what the Battens would flow with 2.07/1.68 valves?

Thoughts?

Dave Brode
64 Cutlass

>
>
> Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 22:49:03 -0500
> From: "<GJC> CC-IROC-SS" <gjcouse@francomm.com>
> Subject: RE: head flow info
>
> >From what I've come to learn, the Edelbrock Aluminum #6051 BB heads only
> require the head bolt holes drilled out to 1/2" to be utilized on the SB. At
> least that's what is required for 403 SB usage.
>
> I do believe I have some flow specs around here somewhere. Ah yes, direct
> from Edelbrock:
>
> #6051 Cylinder Head Specs
>
> Part Number In.                 #6051
>
> Intake valve size                 2.072"
> Exhaust valve size            1.680"
> Valve spring diameter         1.45"

> Cylinder Head Flow Data at 28" H2O
>
>              Flow @ valve lift
>
>              .100"    67-67/54
>              .200"  131-131/102
>              .300"  195-195/137
>              .400"  245-247/163
>              .500"  278-256/179
>              .600"  268-259/188
>              .700"  xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> - -----Regards,
>
> Gary J. Couse

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 20:08:19 EST
From: ANTIQOLDS@aol.com
Subject: Diesel Service Manuals

   I have the following Diesel books for sale $20.00 each plus $5.00 shipping
& handling

Service manual  for the 350N engine printed 1977
Product Service Training  printed 1983.

Everett   ANTIQOLDS@AOL.COM

E & G Automotive
1-401-435-7139

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 20:08:17 EST
From: ANTIQOLDS@aol.com
Subject: Fisher Body Manuals For Sale

I have the following Fisher Body Service Manuals for Sale  All Manuals are
$25.00 each plus $5.00 Shipping & Handling

1967, 1968, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1974, 1975, 1976, 1977,1979,1980
1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988

there are some duplicates but, not many so don't delay if you desire one.

Everett  ANTIQOLDS@AOL.COM

E & G Automotive
1-401-435-7139 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 20:08:18 EST
From: ANTIQOLDS@aol.com
Subject: Electric Trouble Shooting Manuals For Sale

 I have the following Oldsmobile Electrical Trouble Shooting manuals for sale
$25.00 each plus $5.00 Shipping & Handling.

   1981, 1982, 1983, 1984 and  1985.

Everett   ANTIQOLDS@AOL.COM

E & G Automotive
1-401-435-7139

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 20:09:00 -0500
From: "Thomas P. Smith" <smithtp@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Nice weather

> Does it hit even with an edelbrock intake?
>
> JoeB
>
> On Sun, 13 Dec 1998 19:20:16 EST Gutlass66@aol.com writes:
> >Not quite sure if you know this, but an Edelbrock Carb wont fit on a
> >Olds
> >without a spacer, the linkage thingie hits the manifold.

        From the 1998 Edelbrock catalog in front of me right now, only the
small block  Olds Edelbrock Performer manifold is a problem.  The Edelbrock
carb will fit the small block Olds Edelbrock Performer RPM since it is a
higher rise manifold that the Performer.  Also, this problem doesn't exist
with the big block Olds Edelbrock intakes.  A stock manifold would be a
problem, but since you'd need an adaptor to make the squarebore Edelbrock
carb fit the spreadbore factory manifold, the adaptor would give you the
clearance you need, anyway.

- --
Thomas P. Smith
1971 Cutlass S 350
smithtp@ix.netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 19:30:45 -0600
From: bloom9@juno.com (C K)
Subject: parts car, session 5

Hello all, todays goal on the '67 parts car was to remove the front
bumper and other front grille area parts before it got to dark.

The front bumper came off surprisingly easy. With my son holding the
back-up, I got under the car and muscled loose the four nut-N-blots. I
noticed before buying the car that the bumper had a little damage, but I
figured it was repairable. Since the radiator was missing from the car
already there was a lot of room.

Next was the grille area. First I removed the condenser coil and filter
dryer (cannister) along with it's line. No, there wasn't any freon left
in the system.

Then I went for the headlight assembly including the chrome covering and
backing pieces. Next the two horns.

Then I removed the grille itself. Then the hood latch assembly. By the
time I got started today, this was all the time I had because of the
lighting conditions. I started to unbolt the shield assembly (gravel
guard) but had to quit.

There's been a lot of talk lately about the radiator support. As others
have stated, everything, and I mean everything, is bolted to this peice.
It takes a lot of wrenching just to get to it! On the one I'm getting
ready to remove, I've noticed sometime in the past a battery leaked real
bad. I'm hoping on closer inspection I'll find that this one is savable.

Fred Kemp
bloom9@juno.com
Tulsa, OK area
'67 442, Cutlass S and Cutlass

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 16:10:16 -0600
From: "mbloomer" <mbloomer@gateway.net>
Subject: Re: piston swap question

Depends on how the cyl's look.  They should look the same as when you
put it together the first time.  The key thing here is to match up the old
and
new piston wieghts to keep the motor balanced.

Mike B
mbloomer@gateway.net
ICQ# 19113713
72 Cutlass S (RIP)
68 Cutlass Supreme

>I have about 15 1/4 mile passes and about 50 miles driving on my 455 Olds.
>I'm going to scrap the +.030 TRW L2323 in favor of a set of +.030 Arias
flat
>tops.  Question is can I just take the old pistons out and put the new ones
>in with a new set of rings, or do I need to disassemble the whole thing and
>have it honed.
>
>Thanks,
>Ken
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 20:42:37 -0400
From: Jonathan Parke <jonparke@together.net>
Subject: Attn Joe P. Re: Heater Blower Relay (a thread off of "70 A/C Wiring")

I wrote:

>Yesterday I looked into simplifying the heater wiring.
>I looked in both the "illustrated" and the "by the numbers" parts
>books and found that the blower motor is the same for the AC and non AC
>cars.

>According to the wiring diagram on non AC cars there is no relay.
>All current goes through the fan switch at the heater control and
>it has OFF-LO-MED-HIGH positions.  On the other hand the fan
>switch for the AC cars has LOW-MED-MED-HIGH and the HIGH
>position runs a the relay which kicks the current to come over
>directly from the + junction block.  The AC car fan shuts off only
>when the HEAT-DEF-VENT-NORMAL-MAX control lever is moved to OFF.

>I've been puzzling about the possibility of replacing the AC switch
>with a non AC switch as well as using the non AC resistor and ditching the
>blower relay.

>Your point about diverting the high current draw away from the switch
>makes sense.

>However, I wonder.

>Is the non AC switch heavier duty than the AC so that it can take the
>higher current draw?

>If not and it is of basically the same gauge material then I'm assuming
>there must another reason the EEs designed the AC this way.  I wouldn't
>think they'd go to all that extra trouble and expense unless there was a
>really good reason.

>Something must be different, but as I look at the component and wiring
>diagram I can't see any reason other than too high of a current draw.
>Which doesn't seem to make sense because the non AC cars don't do it this way.

>I'm trying to reduce any useless clutter in the engine compartment so any
>help with understanding this dilemma would greatly appreciated,




Mike B (mbloomer@gateway.net) responded:

>OK going out on a limb here.  What's the possibility of the non AC
>cars not having the same "high" speed as the AC cars.  All non AC
>cars I've seen don't have a blower that really kicks like the AC ones,
>though they are the same part #.

I'm looking at the schematic for the AC and non AC.

The non AC switch picks the HIGH current off before the resistor.  So
unless the wire length combined with the switch itself is producing some
kind of significant voltage drop I'm hard pressed to figure out why the AC
would run better than the non AC.

In fact the other day when I tested all this stuff out I found the blower
really kicked when I wired direct to the power source (using a Radio Shack
13.7VDC power supply).  That made sense to me because the current wasn't
running around the wires and gaping through some old butt crimps.

>Possibility that the development
>time was invested in the AC cars and the non AC cars were left
>fairly "primitive".  This would fit in that the AC cars have an extra
>speed than the non AC cars so that a non AC cars "high" would
>be an AC cars 2nd MED.

I follow your thinking on this, but if the AC and non AC both pick up the
HIGH as non resisted direct contact than it would seem that the difference
in the two systems would have to reflect a different cumulative resistance
in each system.  That somehow the non AC had more resistance in the current
path than the AC set up.

There's probably some retired EE out there who was the designer for the
heating/AC stuff and he (she?) knows exactly what the deal was.

Maybe I should run this by Joe P.  He always seems to have a talent for
finding the needle in a haystack.

Joe you reading this?  What do you think?

thanks,

jp

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 20:37:48 EST
From: OLDS44272@aol.com
Subject: Re: 68 442 convert found?

In a message dated 98-12-14 16:56:55 EST, you write:

<< If you
 really must buy this car, please take a knowledgeable but disinterested
 friend with you to honestly assess the car.  >>
    

           Good point. I take my Chevy friend with me when i look at
Oldasmobiles to buy. He can help go over the car without being blinded by the
fact  like " ohh, it is a convertable, it can't need THAT much work)  He has
helped me stay away from projects that are way over my head. Just as a test,
look in a Hemmings Motor News book or any of the on-line sites ( 442. com or
Supercars/ and others) to see what the going rate for the main items ( console
) and little items ( window crank handles..) Also , do you have the room and
the time and skill to work on a major project. It is good to say you did alot
of things yourself with regards to the car. And of course, there is a first
time to learn/ try everything. Or if you have a big check book, it is easy to
write checks and have things done for you. ( of course, like a trim shop might
have to do the top).    Finally, depending on the price of the car, could you
take that money and buy another car in better shape that might just need some
mechainal work?.......Just lots to about, but you must be real about what it
will take to get it back on the road.........Good luck   SCOTT

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 19:44:07 -0600
From: "mbloomer" <mbloomer@gateway.net>
Subject: Re: 8000 rpm 350 [long]

As far as the "C" heads go, I'm still not completedly sold on 
the whole idea.  Comparitavely speaking the early sb Olds
heads have port's comparable to the ch*by motors of the 
same displacement that are spinning high RPM's.  Cut for
big valves and some porting I would rather save the money
your going to need for the domed pistons.  Domed piston's
are inherently a bad design in that it becomes easy to 
have "hot spots" which can lead to premature detonation.

What about going with a slightly less than zero deck block
and shaved 64cc heads?  What I mean here is to go beyond
zero decking the block so that at TDC the piston actually sticks
out of the bore.  When the gasket thickness is added in it 
would act as a spacer so that your negating the effect of the 
extra gasket volume.  Add to this shaving the heads from a 64cc
chamber to something more like a 60cc.  This should bump your
true CR to 10.5 without having to use special (read: expensive)
pistons.  I know for a fact the '72 7a heads with the 2.072/1.625"
valves and some porting will flow high enough to spin the motor
to 8000 while still making power.  The thing here is to not go
too big and loose too much bottom end.

As far as block strength, I've been toying with the idea of using
splayed main caps like they do for the 2 bolt main sb ch*by.  I 
don't think that you have enough material in the gas blocks to
do it but might in the diesel blocks.  If your going to use the
diesel block might as well bore it out for a set of .030 455
pistons to bump up the CR a bit more and add a few 
extra cubes.

As far as single plane intake's the only one I have been able
to track dow is from Holley.  The RPM though will spin quite
well to 8,000 given the right carb.  If you went with the single
plane I think it would do nothing but further diminish what there
is of the bottom end, especially if you go with the "C" heads.

Mike B
mbloomer@gateway.net
ICQ# 19113713
72 Cutlass S (RIP)
68 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 20:42:32 EST
From: OLDS44272@aol.com
Subject: Re: 68 442 convert found////

             The other thing, this car could be a potental parts car if you
get it cheap enough....or have another convert. lined up to buy....just a
thought......SCOTT

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 20:41:12 EST
From: SpeedCom@aol.com
Subject: Re: 8000 rpm 350 and some parameters

In a message dated 12/14/98
 6:<BR24:<BR12 PM Central Standard Ti, dbrode@hereintown.net writes:>  I've
always been interested  in more of a budget approach, though. I bet a 
> sb with a bore of 4.125"[362"] through  4.185"[373"], with a big solid
lifter flat 
> tappet cam, and a "C" head with decent prep work[filled heatrisers, cutback
>exhaust side, good porting, 2.07, 1.625" valves] would make a bunch of power
for >not a whole lot of money.

Someone asked last week  how redline was determined. This made me think of my
motorcylce road racing in the 60s.

When we wanted to determine the redline of a potential project, the first
things we would do is to figure the mean piston speed. Modern metallurgy will
allow that to go to 4200 fps. So we'd take that as the first order redline.
Then we'd calculate max piston acceleration *at that RPM*. I can't remember
the cap figure, but if it was under that figure, we had our redline. If piston
acceleration exceeded our cap, then we'd drop RPM until we had acceleration
under the cap and take that as our redline. Now, after all that work, we'd
usually allow ourselves about an extra 4% over the calculated redline in top
gear when figuring our gearing. The load at high speed made the extra 4% safe,
or so we said. However, we'd be very careful not to slam the throttle shut
from max + 4% revs, as the piston tops would occasionally come off if we did.
Back then a racing piston for a Manx or a G-50 cost $70 and that was big bucks
even if nothing else came adrift.

Anyone figure mps and pa for these engines? Might tell you whether you were
whistling in the dark or not.

It would also be interesting to figure it for those 8000RPM sb C***ys.

Cheers/Carron

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 20:55:15 EST
From: GT5726@aol.com
Subject: Re: Timing Chain replacement

In a message dated 12/14/98 4:39:23 PM Central Standard Time,
dbrown@mh1.mcis.uchicago.edu writes:

<< Having just gone through a chain replacement on a factory cam, all I can
 say is BULLS**T!!, and please prove me wrong! I'm taking this stand because
 I hate mis-information. I tried contacting the poster a day or so later,
 but I've received no response to my e-mail, although they have since posted
 to the list. Anyways, I have a picture of three timing sets, all with dots,
 keyways and cam dowel pins in the same place. One OEM, another OEM
 replacement, another double roller. All the same.
  >>
Performer RPM Camshaft/Lifters/Lube Package #7112* 
Use Edelbrock #7813 timing set. DO NOT use stock timing set. 

Duration at .006 Lift: Intake 290° Exhaust 300° Centerlines 
Duration at .050 Lift: Intake 224° Exhaust 234° Lobe Separation: 112° 
Lift at cam: Intake .310 Exhaust .325 Intake Centerline: 107° 
Lift at valve: Intake .496 Exhaust .520 
Timing at .050 lift: Open Close 
Intake 5° BTDC 39° ABDC 
Exhaust 54° BBDC 0° ATDC 

...I cut and pasted this directly from the Edelbrock webpage...It states in a
very general term NOT to use a stock timing chain on a performance cam. In the
installation manual that came with this camshaft, it states that the factory
timing chain *may* be machined in a retarded or advanced setting from the
factory. In order to obtain maximum performance , Edelbrock reccomends that
it's camshafts be installed "straight up". In order to insure that it's cams
are indeed installed sraightup...it reccommends NOT using a factory chain. 
   I am not misinforming the list, in fact I am passing along the findings of
a well respected companies findings. YOU are misinforming the list by stating
what you have found to be the "gospel" in everyones case! In fact, you are
lucky! You obviously have replaced a chain that was machined for a camshaft
that was to be installed straightup without doing any research beforehand! 
   If you read my post acurately, which obviously you didn't, you would have
read where I stated that "you may have a factory retarded cam and need to
replce the chain with a factory replacement for that specific engine" , I
didn't say ALL factory cams are ground for retarded chain settings!....

   Collyn Eastham
   65 442
   65 Cutlass

   P.S.   DONT BE A "RICHARD CRANIUM"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 21:02:27 EST
From: RARE73OLDS@aol.com
Subject: ANYONE OUT THERE WITH A 73 CUTLASS S 455/4SPD?

 There has to be someone with or who knows of another person with one.Click
here to see mine ( <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/MAGSURV/index.html">1973
OLDS CUTLASS 455/4spd.</A> ) to send to others that might be able to help me. 
                                       Thanks, Harry Mager

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 22:05:17 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: UNBOUNCE: Translator Needed

This is a first... all I can figure out is that this is written in
Portugese and it involves a '72 Custom Cruiser. He might be seeking tires
and a carb. That's where my deciphering skills run out. Probably not
worthwhile answering on the list but if you can figure this out respond to
cobra@goldnet.com.br to lend a hand. 

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:	cobra <cobra@goldnet.com.br>

Prezados senhores.
Desculpem-me por enviar este em língua portuguesa.
Possuo um Oldsmobile 88 Station Wagon "Custom Cruiser" 1972, V-8 455.
Aqui no Brasil é muito difícil mantê-lo pois, além da dificuldade com as
importações e, por tartar-se de um veículo antigo, as próprias
importadoras não nos fornecem catálogos de peças de reposição.
Adquiri este veículo em 02/08/82 e tenho verdadeira paixão por ele.
Sempre procurei mantê-lo rodando, com peças originais.
Pra se ter uma idéia das dificuldades encontradas, este carro utilizava
pneus L 78-15 BFGoodrich. Com muito custo, consegui adquirir o pneus
P-76 HR 78-15 FB SC Pirelli, fabricados aqui mesmo no Brasil para
exportação. Ocorre que já há 10 longos anos tento comprá-los e a Pirelli
informa que não os fabrica mais. Assim, não só com os pneus, tenho
encontrado dificuldades para adquirir um novo Carburador Rochester
4-Jet, pois a importadora informa que não os fabricam mais, bem como
outros vários ítens, como o vidro traseiro basculante elétrico.
Existem meios de adquirí-los ?
Existe um catálogo de peças a ser fornecido ?
Como adquirí-lo ?

Será que por aí existe alguma alma caridosa que possa traduzir este
e-mail ? Espero que sim e considero como um milagre de Natal.

Aguardo, se possível, uma resposta !

Feliz Natal à todos e um maravilhoso 1.999

Ubiratã Cobra Kaiser Leite
cobra@goldnet.com.br
São José do Rio Preto - São Paulo - Brazil

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 20:58:41 -0500
From: "Dave Cullen" <david.cullen@snet.net>
Subject: Re: Olds problem

My 87 cutlass ciera is starting then sputtering out 5 seconds later. If
i rev the engine it will start on the second or third try.
- -----------------------------------------
Choke stuck? Fuel filter clogged? Water in the gas?

drc

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 20:54:31 -0500
From: "Dave Cullen" <david.cullen@snet.net>
Subject: Re: no circulation, new water pump?

>Stumped  78-88 air
>No heat in car 


Bummer.

Try flushing the heater core. If it won't flush -- replace it?

drc

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 21:04:16 -0500
From: "Dave Cullen" <david.cullen@snet.net>
Subject: Re: Traction Bars on Delta

>Finesse is fine, but 1/4 launches trough the entire intersections are not
>good enough, especially if the pavement is slick.


Face it dude - 450 ft-lbs of torque, 4400 lbs of Detroit Iron. You are
destined to smoke tires hoplessly no matter what you do. Just too much
inertia.

drc

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 21:08:15 EST
From: DYeager535@aol.com
Subject: Re: Timing Chain replacement

In a message dated 12/14/98 2:39:31 PM Pacific Standard Time,
dbrown@mh1.mcis.uchicago.edu writes:

<< Someone posted about a week ago stating that putting an aftermarket timing
 chain on a factory cam was asking for trouble. In effect, the factory or
 OEM style timing sets were different from aftermarket roller chains. 
- -- 
David Brown  dbrown@mh1.mcis.uchicago.edu>>

     David, it wasn't me that posted it, but I DO recall seeing it
somewhere..it wasn't the FAQ was it? I remember something about emissions
being figured into the timing mark or some such...it may have even been an ad
in Summit or Jegs for a cam degreer(sp) or something like that. Wonder if your
discovery means all the cams really are just the same. Would be a load off,eh?
Dorian

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 21:24:50 -0500
From: "Dave Cullen" <david.cullen@snet.net>
Subject: Re: [Re: [Re: 70-72 W-30 Hood Stripes]]

When you paint on the stripes, should you paint the hood the stripe color,
mask the stripes of, then spray the hood color? Or just the opposite, spray
hood then paint stripes on top of that. I know it can be done either way,
- -------------------------
Yup. I've done both. My preferences are so:

If you're doing a 3-part finish that requires a ground coat (not just
primer), AND you would like the stripes to be the same color as the ground
coat, then by all means paint over the striping. This works really well with
candy colors that use silver or gold ground coats. Be sure to remove the
stripe masking before the color coat hardens. And don't put too much color
on, or the stripes will be noticeably lower in depth.

If there will be no ground coat, or the color of it isn't what you want for
the stripes, then add the stripes afterward. It'll be a "reverse" mask.

In both cases use fine-line masking tape from a real automotive paint
supplier, or the edges will be fuzzy. 3M makes it $$.

drc

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 21:26:48 EST
From: OLDS44272@aol.com
Subject: Olds in movies

        The Intrigue was featured in the " X-files" movie. But that might not
count, becuase it is new......Besides, what body style would that refer too?
If they used " W " body until 1995, they got to be running out of letters by
now..........SCOTT

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 18:03:12 -0800
From: mitzm@earthlink.net
Subject: 69 Parts Car in SoCal

Stopped by the pick-a-part in Ontario (California, near San Bernadino) on
the way to Vegas this weekend.  Just to look around.  Didn't have any tools
on me (took the wife's car).

They have a nearly complete 69 Cutlass coupe with buckets, auto console,
and fairly nice dash.     Its 50 miles away from me now so I can't go back
but maybe somebody else in the area is looking for those parts.   It has a
350 and a overall pretty straight body,  IIRC  front right has damage.
Grill is  almost nice  but front bumper is rusty.  There were several other
60's  to early 70's olds, most were Big cars (some with BB).

The yard is on Millikin just south of Jurupa, about a mile from the 15.
This is a nice Pick-a-Part because they put all the pre 73 cars in a
separate area so we don't have to wander past miles of  rust free G bodies
just to find the handful of older cars

Hans

Mitzm@mail.earthlink.net

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 19:09:25 PST
From: "Mike Sealey" <rocket98for69@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: FARGO

On Mon, 14 Dec 1998 06:37:38 -0800 (PST)"RockMan" <rockman20@yahoo.com> 
writes:

>*sigh* I hate to interupt the list like this, but I saw the movie 
>when it first came out. Still haven't seen the whole thing. I am from
>Fargo, North Dakota. I know of all the areas where they shot that
>movie. BUT, we do not talk like they have us talking! I don't know
>where they got that accent from, but in my opinion, it makes us all
>look stupid up here. Just PLEASE, don't judge Fargoan's because of
>this movie! We do not talk like that "Don'tchya know eh?"

I thought the folks who were talking like that (particularly the 
pregnant lawperson) were supposed to be from Brainerd, Minnesota...

Mike Sealey
'69 Ninety Eight Holiday Sedan

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 21:15:39 -0600
From: "Peter Landowski" <PETTRIX@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: [Re: 70-72 W-30 Hood Stripes]

You are better off painting the body the color you want (let's say blue)
and then mask off the rest of the car for the stripes (white). The other
way around is alot harder and you can get overspray.
Pettrix@prodigy.net

- ----------
> From: Gene Gilpin <ggilpin@wrallp.com>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: [Re: 70-72 W-30 Hood Stripes]
> Date: Monday, December 14, 1998 11:00 AM
> 
> I have a question on this. If it was covered, I missed it, sorry, but..
> When you paint on the stripes, should you paint the hood the stripe
color,
> mask the stripes of, then spray the hood color? Or just the opposite,
spray
> hood then paint stripes on top of that. I know it can be done either way,
> but which produces the best results? and is easier? I should have my body
> work all done by March and this spring I become a painter. Wish me luck.
> 
> Ed 
> The Omega Man
> 
> '74 Omega 455
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >
> >>Use 3-M "fine line" masking tape in 1/8 for the corners
> >I just did the stripes on my 70 442 convrt. In base-clear
> >and there sooo perfect.You will be real disapointed 
> >with stencil results.
> >
> >restoman.
> >
> >____________________________________________________________________
> >More than just email--Get your FREE Netscape WebMail account today at
> http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail
> >
> >

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 21:19:11 -0600
From: "Peter Landowski" <PETTRIX@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: [Re: [Re: 70-72 W-30 Hood Stripes]]

I have a question for you then if you are a painter by trade. Is it not
true in Base/Clear coat systems, let's say DuPont ChromaBase, that 2-3
coats of clear is maximum you should have sprayed. I heard anything more
than that can make the paint crack. 

Second question is when you wet sand a car, how many coats of clear do you
remove? IF you sprayed it with 2 coats, will only 1 then remain?
Pettrix@prodigy.net

- ----------
> From: bruce suess <restoman@netscape.net>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: [Re: [Re: 70-72 W-30 Hood Stripes]]
> Date: Monday, December 14, 1998 11:12 AM
> 
>> >Hood first,  let it cure, then the stripes. the only
> right way to do it.I am painter by trade.
> 
> restoman
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >
> >>Use 3-M "fine line" masking tape in 1/8 for the corners
> >I just did the stripes on my 70 442 convrt. In base-clear
> >and there sooo perfect.You will be real disapointed 
> >with stencil results.
> >
> >restoman.
> >
> >____________________________________________________________________
> >More than just email--Get your FREE Netscape WebMail account today at
> http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail
> >
> >
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________________
> More than just email--Get your FREE Netscape WebMail account today at
http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 22:32:18 EST
From: BIGJERMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Batten vs Edelbrock flow #s

In a message dated 12/14/98 8:13:44 PM Eastern Standard Time,
dbrode@hereintown.net writes:

<< Here's flow info on the Battens, unported, with 2.055"/1.6" valves. It
looks like
 they may have allot more potential for a serious effort than the Edelbrocks.
This info
 is a bit old, and i think the Battens may have been improved a bit since. >>

dont the batten heads require a special batten intake to match the ports on
the heads?
jeremy

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 22:32:07 EST
From: IMGMKR55@aol.com
Subject: (no subject)

I am tring to get information on disc brake conversion for my 70 cutlass that
has drum brakes. I am wondering if 73-77 spindles will fit the 70 controll
arms and ball joints . Any help would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks 
Chuck 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 22:50:34 -0500
From: "rkn" <rkn@ezaccess.net>
Subject: Re: Loud Fan

It's simple enough, if you have a clutch type fan, you should be able to
spin the fan by hand when the engine is off of course. A fan without a
clutch is bolted directly to the water pump pulley and will only move when
the pulleys are turning. Clutch type fans usually have a finned hub in
front of them, this is the actual clutch. The idea is for the fan to coast
at higher speeds, thus eliminating the noise.      I had a 69 Delta with a
455 that always ran hot. I replaced the thermostat, flushed the system but
nothing seemed to help...until I bought a block that functionally
eliminated the clutch. The fan was rather noisy but the engine ran at
normal temps from that day on. Even after I spun it around about 5 times
and wrapped it into a gaurdrail. :-(     (That happened on the night that
Leon Spinks defeated Muhammed Ali for the heavyweight title.)   Fortunatly
all that was lost was the car and a large chunk of my pride. Anyway, hope
this info is useful.
				R. Kevin Noon
				66 Dynamic 88 Convertible
				85 Delta 88 Royale Brougham

- ----------
> From: CPEARLPARK@aol.com
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Loud Fan
> Date: Monday, December 14, 1998 8:05 PM
> 
> Help a rookie understand... the difference between a clutch fan and a,
> well..., a non-clutch fan ?  I've got a 71 442 with a noisy fan (7
blades) and
> I'm not sure if it's original or not.  Thanks.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 22:52:27 EST
From: RAC5419@aol.com
Subject: Re: UNBOUNCE: Translator Needed

In a message dated 12/14/98 8:06:11 PM Central Standard Time,
ab348@chebucto.ns.ca writes:

<< This is a first... all I can figure out is that this is written in
 Portugese and it involves a '72 Custom Cruiser. He might be seeking tires
 and a carb.  >>
I'll try...

Prezados gentlemen. They forgive me for sending this in Portuguese language. I
possess a Oldsmobile 88 Station Wagon " Custom Cruiser " 1972, V-8 455. Here
in Brazil she is very difficult to keep it therefore, beyond the difficulty
with the importations and, for tartar itself of an old vehicle, the proper
importers in do not supply catalogues to them of parts spare. I acquired this
vehicle in 02/08/82 and I have true passion for it. I always looked for to
keep twirling it, with original parts. Pra if to have an idea of the found
difficulties, this carriage used tires L 78-15 BFGoodrich. With very cost, I
obtained to acquire the tires P-76 HR 78-15 FB SC Pirelli, manufactured here
exactly in Brazil for exportation. It occurs that already it has 10 long years
I try to buy them and the Pirelli informs that does not manufacture them more.
Thus, not only with the tires, I have found difficulties to acquire a new
Carburetor Rochester 4-Jet, therefore the importer informs that they do not
manufacture them more, as well as others some item, as the electric dumping
back glass. 

I'm not this good at languages but check out babelfish.com

Dick Compton
72 442 Conv
RAC5419@AOL.COM

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 03:29:31 +0000 (GMT)
From: S-MAN <super442@yahoo.com>
Subject: unsubbing for a while

Hello Everyone, 
       Due to just having ~too much~ to do, and not enough time to do
what I need, I'll be unsubbing from the list for awhile. I'll be back
hopefully after the first of the year. I'd like to thank you all for
all the help you've given me here, and to let all my friends here
know, I still have E-mail, and would welcome hearing from any of you.
Special thanks to Greg, for all his help and understanding. See you
all next year, hope to hear from some of you soon, and wishing
everyone a great holiday season.

 Later,
        John
      super442@yahoo.com




==
John McJunkin ( The Sman ) mailto:super442@yahoo.com  
  ICQ # 16956740      Lithia Springs, Ga.
TOPLESS--1985 Cutlass--frog442's 84---my 69 442 
1982 Cutlass Cruiser Wagon(g-body)--soon to be V-8 !
http://members.tripod.com/~SuperOlds/
Check out my Burnout page-send me pics of your's and I'll add it
- -http://members.tripod.com/~SuperOlds/Burnouts    
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 23:22:48 EST
From: KS7RACING@aol.com
Subject: Re: Batten vs Edelbrock flow #s

David,

The limiting factor with the Batten heads are the limited intake choices.  At
one time Edelbrock made a Victor for the Olds SB when some NASCAR teams were
experimenting (A.J. Foyt's NASCAR team was one of them) with true Rocket
power.  But no more, you have to keep your eyes open for one at a swap meet.
The other choice is a fabricated tunnel-ram style intake, this works OK for
the strip but for street and other types of racing this is no choice due to
track rules or driveability (for the trip TO the strip!)  I wish there was a
better selection of intakes for those heads, I bet I could get them (the
heads) SCCA approved for my Solo I and II Prepared Cutlass.  

The Edelbrock heads do have the option of using the Performer RPM for SB
Oldses since it has the additional material to port-match, but to get any
respectably high compression ratio you'll have to go with a set of custom
pistons with domes on them.  I'll probably get a set of Edelbrock heads when
it looks like we'll get the project off the ground.

Take Care,
Ken Snyder
Kansas City, Kansas
KS7RACING@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 23:32:08 -0500
From: Norval Minnear <norval@ictransnet.com>
Subject: Re: oil pumps and restrictors

Frederick Nissen wrote:
> 
> I would go for a stock pump.  High pressure / volume pumps are more trouble
> than they are worth to me (excess oil pressure in cold weather, oil leaks,
> and the possibility of sucking the pan dry at high rpm).   If I decided to
> restrict oil flow to the top end, I would do so by slightly rotating the cam
> bearings or using a set of the modified cam bearings with smaller oil holes.
> I do not like the restrictors in the block as they reduce oil flow to the
> cam bearings as well as the rest of the top  end, sometimes with unhealthy
> consequences.  Pay attention to the drainback provisions from the top end.
> Anything you can do to enhance drainback is a step in the right direction.
> Poor oil return is the one real weak point on the Olds oil system.
> 
> Regards,
> Fred
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Semantana Chris (ONEX) <SemantanaC@tce.com>
> To: 'oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca' <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Date: Monday, December 14, 1998 10:34 AM
> Subject: oil pumps and restrictors
> 
> >Hi all,
> >I'm planning the rebuild of my W-31 motor and I'm seeking opinions on oil
> >pumps and whether oil restrictors are necessary.  Basically the car will be
> >driven on the street, but it will see time on the dragstrip.  Does anyone
> >think oil restrictors are necessary?  And what about oil pumps?  Stock
> >replacement?  Stock with high pressure spring?  I've been told not to run
> >the high volume pump unless you are going with a 6qt pan and I don't plan
> on
> >altering any visual aspects of the motor.  Meaning stock exhaust and intake
> >manifolds, stock oil pan, original rebuilt q-jet.  I've talked with Dick
> >Miller briefly and he suggested a stock oil pump and not to use restrictors
> >and I'm just wondering what other people think?
> >
> >On a related note, a while back I decided to take apart some of the
> original
> >W-31 350 to see why it was burning oil so bad.  Off came the intake and I
> >noticed the pushrod on the #7 exhaust valve went through the top of the
> >lifter and there where a few parts of the lifter laying in the lifter
> >valley.  I then took off the driver valve cover and noticed the valve
> spring
> >on the #7 intake valve was busted.  So then off came the cylinder head.  I
> >found out I do have 455 valves in the head and I also still have the
> >original pistons in the block, they where all stamped on the top with an
> >'A'.  So now I have my smoking gun so to speak.
> >
> >Chris Smetana
> >Terre Haute, IN
> >http://www.abcs.com/chris
> >
> >1969 W-31
> >1969 4-4-2 parts car
> >plus others
> >
JUst a note on oil return on all of our racing engines we grind the
inside of the block and then paint the inside of the block with
rustolium paint 2 good coats and you would not belive the quick oil
return.. and we are turning these engines 7 to 8 thousand rpm s for
hours . we have been doing this for years,,,,, Norval

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 22:56:23 -0600
From: "mbloomer" <mbloomer@gateway.net>
Subject: Re: oil pumps and restrictors

Do the same thing but use this stuff that's for industrial electric
motor's to coat the windings.  Comes in a spray can and say's
its impervious to oil, grease, etc.  Put it on too thick and it's like
a thin rubber coating but still slick.

Mike B
mbloomer@gateway.net
ICQ# 19113713
72 Cutlass S (RIP)
68 Cutlass Supreme

>JUst a note on oil return on all of our racing engines we grind the
>inside of the block and then paint the inside of the block with
>rustolium paint 2 good coats and you would not belive the quick oil
>return.. and we are turning these engines 7 to 8 thousand rpm s for
>hours . we have been doing this for years,,,,, Norval
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 23:56:03 EST
From: KS7RACING@aol.com
Subject: Re: 8000 rpm 350 [long]

OK, I'll add what I know about this discussion (I think I did once already,
but what the heck) and what I remember from Precisioned Speed (Dave Smith's
old shop in Anahiem, CA) back in the early to mid 80's.

I know when asked about the 350 we were building in 1992 (solid lifter cam and
roller rockers, hi-volume oiling system, TRW W-31 replacement pistons, #6
heads with 2.07 BB valves, Dave's 4-bar main supports, rebalanced rotating
assembly with a nodular crankshaft, open headers), Dave Smith said to make the
maximum RPM 6800, and we did real well with this combination -- at I-70
Speedway (slightly smaller and slightly less banked than Bristol) we had 3 3rd
place finishes and wound up 7th in points at the end of the year with only
running half the races.  In fact, anyone with Dave's new catalog can see a
picture of "Elfie" on page 48.

Now I know Dave has built (and still does) 350's that will spin even faster,
but for what amount of time they'll last is anyone's guess.  I believe it has
to do with the weak bottom end (2-bolt and not a lot of meat down there where
you need it) and the large rod and main bearing journals.  Think about the
journals -- if you want to maintain the "standard" 10 PSI for each 1000 of
RPM, you'll be up around 80 PSI at the targeted RPM, for an Olds this means
you'll need a ton of volume, and we already know the trouble high volume oil
pumps can bring to the surface with sucking the pan dry.  I know for a fact
that Dave has done tons of work on the diesel block as a drag racing engine,
he held many records in the old AHRA days when they allowed small-blocks to
use nitrous and I'm quite sure those engines spun well past 8000, but it was
done with a lot of lightweight parts (rods, pistons and crankshaft) along with
custom 4-bolt caps made for the diesel's thicker main webs and a dry-sump
system that was good for somewhere around 12 quarts.

On a side note, I remember Dave building a 403-based engine to try out a trick
main girdle to strengthen the bottom end on those lightweight blocks.  It
cross-bolted the custom main caps, supplemented with studs at the original 2
bolt locations.  He brought it out to Orange County on a test day and had Tom
Chelbana run it a time or two.  That's all it got -- the girdle worked, but
the webs inside the block broke.  I don't think Dave ever tried another 403
that way, the diesel block's just too much better and his main caps for it are
the only way to fly.

The next time I talk to Dave I'll have to ask him about this.  He's never
steered me wrong.

Take Care,
Ken Snyder
Kansas City, Kansas
KS7RACING@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 20:56:55 -0800
From: Greg Rollin <supercars@transport.com>
Subject: Pilot Bearing Adaptor

Paul Brillhart wrote:
> > (snip)
>   Personally, I'd love to hear from Greg Rollin on the installation and
> performance of this bearing(or from anyone who may have used it.)
> 
>  Paul Brillhart



Gene Gilpin wrote:
>(snip) 
> This might sound like a stupid question, but what is this adapter pilot
> bearing you guys are talking about?  Do you mean you can run a 4spd on an
> Olds with an automatic crank without drilling? How does it go on? 
> 
> Ed
> The Omega Man




Paul, Ed, (and anyone else interested),

Our pilot bearing adaptor allows the use of an
"automatic" crankshaft with a manual transmission.
Factory automatic cranks are not machined with the 
step required for a pilot bearing.  And they lack the
depth required for the manual transmissions input shaft.
The adaptor bearing addresses these issues by
using the torque converter ring of the crank
for centering and mounting of the bearing.
A self-aligning ball bearing (Not a bushing)
is encased in a hardened steel case that has a 
knurl on the outside that provides a VERY tight 
fit in the crankshaft.  Installation only requires 
a hammer and a socket that fits the O.D. of
the adaptor.  As noted, the automatic crank
also lacks the depth required for the manuals
input shaft.  To accommodate this depth, the
input shaft must be shortened by approx. 1/4"
to 3/8".  This can be done with a hacksaw or
a disc style grinder. A common misconception
with this modification is that it will somehow
weaken the input shaft.  Actually, it is quite
the contrary.  Because, the pilot 
bearing is now closer to the transmissions
front bearing, this will reduce flex in the 
input shaft.  (Think of a piece of tubing,
say, 10 feet long, supported at the ends.
This will flex in the center more so than
a piece of tubing 5 feet long).  An 
alternative to cutting the end of the 
input shaft, is to drill the existing 
hole in the crank deeper, while using
the adaptor to support the input
shaft.                            
Another aspect of concern by some has been
whether or not the torque converter ring
on the crank provides adequate strength
to support the adaptor.  The example I 
always give is the case of race cars
with a rear engine mount plate.  The 
motor plate will space the bellhousing
(scatter shield) back by the thickness
of the plate.  Which often requires a 
spacer in the crankshaft.  These are very
similar to our adaptor.              
Without sounding like I'm just trying to
pimp our adaptors, I should mention that
we sell a fair amount of these to "correct"
pilot bearing holes that were not drilled
DEAD CENTER in the crankshaft.  If you 
opt to have the crank drilled to accept
the standard bearing or a bushing, make sure
a competent shop handles the task.  
(Performance oriented shops are your 
best bet).  And of course, the crank 
will need to be out of the engine.
The crank and transmission must be
aligned by the pilot bearing.  If this
alignment is off, the results are a 
vibration that will lead to transmission
damage.  As well as main bearing damage.

If you need any further info, just let me know.
 
Greg Rollin
Supercars Unlimited (Where Cutlass/4-4-2 is ALL we do!)
Portland, Oregon  503-244-8249

Web site:
http://www.supercarsunlimited.com

E-mail: supercars@transport.com
- -----------------------------------------

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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #1666
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