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Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #1689


oldsmobile-digest     Tuesday, December 29 1998     Volume 01 : Number 1689



Re: 50 fastest US production cars
Re: torque vs hp, big inch diesel, amc
Re: COLD light?
Re: body shop est.
Re: body shop est.
RE: Diesel Car Front Springs
Re: torque vs hp, big inch diesel, amc
Re: 425 Crank Question
Re: Electrical Problems
Re: diesel stroker and other possibilities [long]
Re: body shop est.
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Re: master cylinder leak
Re: HEI distributor info
high stall convertor choices
Re: Junk Yard and stickers needed
thanks for e-mail help
Re: COLD light?(Why did this message get to me?)
Vista-Cruiser sightings
Re: body shop est.
Re: street racing
Re: body shop est.
Re: Stall Converter Advise
Re: 
back again
RE: hello all
UNBOUNCE: back again
VC
Re: 69 H/O Model
Re: 69 H/O Model
synthetic oils
Re: body shop est.
Re: diesel stroker and other possibilities [long]
WAS: Husky G-bodies weight of gas
Fwd: Birthday Greetings
Re: WAS: Husky G-bodies weight of gas
Re: Deltas, Deltas everywhere...
Weight Of Gas
Re: Husky G-bodies weight of gas
Re: Deltas, Deltas everywhere...
Re: hello all
Re: Deltas, Deltas everywhere...
Re: 69 H/O Model
Bearings, oil pump or high crankcase pressure?
Re: diesel stroker and other possibilities [long]
Re: Vista-Cruiser sightings
Re Body Shop
Re: master cylinder leak
Re: Vista-Cruiser sightings
Re: body shop est.
Re: body shop est.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 17:26:12 -0600
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: 50 fastest US production cars

Martin, 
Sorry, ran all of them with the factory 68/69 Hemi dart, had them for
lunch. Quick, but not quick enough, hemi went about 650 hp without much
tweaking at all. Gross weight about 2900#. 
Lou Biggs
lbiggs@intertek.net
- ----------
> From: Martin Thomas-WLTM07 <Thomas_Martin-WLTM07@css.mot.com>
> To: 'oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca'
> Subject: RE: 50 fastest US production cars
> Date: Monday, December 28, 1998 9:43 AM
> I know the Baldwin Camaro in 1969 (Motion Phase III) was originally a 396
> car that had a dealer transplanted 427.  
> 
> For my vote, it is not Olds or Pontiac, but the ZL1 Camaro made
production
> of 69 models, and was capable of low 11's with slicks and minor tweaks.
> Sure, Ch#vy rated the all Reynolds wrap 427 at 435 hp at 5500 rpm, the
peak
> was 575 at 7500 rpm.  Not bad at all.  
> 
> The 427 Cobra is my favorite, 485 hp, 2200 lbs.  Go figure....Viper, eat
my
> shorts!  power to weight, given same tires (12in slicks) I feel the 427
> would rule the 488 (At least down the 1/4 miles).  And the AC is always
on
> in the Cobra!!  

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 18:16:33 EST
From: Onebil2mny@aol.com
Subject: Re: torque vs hp, big inch diesel, amc

In a message dated 12/26/1998 3:11:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,
dbrode@hereintown.net writes:

<< Big inch diesel;
  Someone said you couldn't get 455" from one. I think you can get even more
than that, with an
 offset ground 425 crank, and a big overbore, although it costs ALLOT. I've
always wondered what the
 attraction was to these engines was. As Karl said, it would be allot cheaper
to build a 455[or
 482]. Perhaps the diesel block is stronger? >>


The diesel block is very strong, but the question started as a 425 crank in a
403.  The 403 is a short deck engine, but uses a very large bore. (4.35 vs.
4.13 for the 455) and so you would have more then 455 cubes in s small block
package.  This could be very usefull in cramped engine bays, yes?  But it has
been pointed out that this swap can't work.  The 425 crank in a 350 diesel
will work, yeilds nearly the same cubes as a 455, but again is in a small
package. 

Keep the shiney side up!
Bill K

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 18:19:40 EST
From: KS7RACING@aol.com
Subject: Re: COLD light?

Thomas,

The "cold" light is triggered off of the same light sender as the "hot" light,
it has 2 top terminals as opposed to 1 for the cars without the "cold" light.
I don't think this was offered in any of the smaller (Cutlass/442, Omega or
H07-style Starfire) cars, just something on the larger cars.  I do remember it
on my mother's 64 Impala, the first car she actually owned.  She sold it when
she started working for the Olds dealer in 73 and bought a Delta 88 - now
there was a car.........................

Take Care,
Ken Snyder
Kansas City, Kansas
KS7RACING@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 17:35:35 -0600
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: body shop est.

All, 
In St. Lou, a GOOD paint job, no dents, minor body prep is about $3000.00
to $3700.00 depending on if you know the guy, 
I am talking about removing moldings, and etc. Not a Maico.
Lou
- ----------
> From: Semantana Chris (ONEX) <SemantanaC@tce.com>
> To: 'oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca'
> Subject: RE: body shop est.
> Date: Monday, December 28, 1998 2:38 PM

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 18:37:39 -0500
From: Don Sowers <dstaxpro@lex.infi.net>
Subject: Re: body shop est.

Douglas J Harkema wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I went out to see what it was going to cost me to get my 70 cutlass 
convertible
> painted.  One guy would strip it and paint it for $4,500.  The other guy
> wouldn't strip it but came up with between $3,500 and $4,000.
> 
> Are these good prices? Or at least in the ball park?
> 
> I'm in the Lansing Mi area    Any advice or comments would be greatly
> appreciated.

Too bad you aren't down this way (central Ky).   I could get it done for
you under $3,000 probably.  One of my clients does good body work at
reasonable prices (at least for me anyway).

Don Sowers

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 18:37:16 EST
From: Onebil2mny@aol.com
Subject: RE: Diesel Car Front Springs

In a message dated 12/26/1998 5:55:53 PM Eastern Standard Time,
DYeager535@aol.com writes:

<<    Anyone on the list have access to a manual that shows the spring ratings
 for an '81 Olds Cutlass Supreme w/350 Diesel, and AC, and an '86 307, AC,
 Cutlass Salon? Thinking the front springs are stiffer in the diesel, since
the
 diesel supposedly has about 2 Quarts more cooling capacity. Thanks anyone,
 Dorian
  >>


Acording to my Moog replacement spring catalog, 

81 Cutlass Diesel springs are  
In. Dia. (4.080)      Wire Dia. (0.677)    Load Height (11.00)    Load (1935)
Rate Load (343)    Approx. Free Height (16.636)

81 Cutlass HD Deisel springs are
In. Dia. (4.080)    Wire Dia. (0.690)   Load Height (11.00)   Load (1860)
Rate Load (420)   Approx. Free Height (15.389)

86 Cutlass 307 springs are
In. Dia. (4.080)   Wire Dia. (0.690)   Laod Height (11.00)   Load (1750)   
Rate Load (420)   Approx. Free Height (15.157)

Hope this helps!
Bill K

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 18:45:34 EST
From: Onebil2mny@aol.com
Subject: Re: torque vs hp, big inch diesel, amc

In a message dated 12/27/1998 10:26:36 AM Eastern Standard Time,
olds442@en.com writes:

<< Most of the time if there were an emergency stop to be made, they  couldn't
do it. So cut em some slack and get outta their way!  >>


Why, if I am already breaking the law, should I tolerate a driver in an 80,000
pound vehicle tailgating me?  Especially when traffic is unbelievable and
there isn't much of a place for the truck to go anyway?!?!  I ad mit, I have
seen a lot of car drivers do pretty stupid things to trucks, but the truck
driver who tail gates has to be the biggest ignoramous of all.  I bet I would
go to jail ig I went around pointing my .45 at people just because I was upset
about traffic, and I also bet that truch could kill a lot more people then my
fully loaded .45!

my .02
Bill (can't stand any stupid driver!) K

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 18:46:55 EST
From: Onebil2mny@aol.com
Subject: Re: 425 Crank Question

In a message dated 12/27/1998 10:35:09 AM Eastern Standard Time,
w.d.arnold@lmco.com writes:

<< That's my thoughts, what's yours?
  >>


It was just a theoreticle question.....   honest!

Bill K

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 19:51:23 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Electrical Problems

I had the same problem this spring... with a regulator that was only a
couple of years old. It was the regulator again. On my Buick I had a
similar problem once and that turned out to be an intermittent connection
in the plug that connects to the regulator... I'd check those 4 wires
coming into it for continuity. But I'd bet it's the regulator.

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 18:54:30 EST
From: Onebil2mny@aol.com
Subject: Re: diesel stroker and other possibilities [long]

In a message dated 12/27/1998 4:40:08 PM Eastern Standard Time,
dbrode@hereintown.net writes:

<< could be done, but I doubt the 403 block would take it. >>

Don't forget how ever, all 403's are not windowed.  I have been told that most
T/A's with a 403 have solid webbed blocks.

See Ya!
Bill K

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 19:59:51 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: body shop est.

I guess I got lucky a few years ago when I got my Cutlass done... I had
paint (with a color change, and including the jambs, underside of
trunklid, doors, etc.), patch panels in the front fender bottoms, and rust
repair around the rear wheel openings. Most trim and emblems came off,
along with the doors and trunklid, windshield chrome, etc. He used
Sikkens base/clear. The price was just over $2K (in worthless Cdn dollars
to boot!) and he did a beautiful job. No problems at all. 

Maybe you should ship your car up here... :)

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 19:06:02 EST
From: HCarn@aol.com
Subject: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Hey Guys what would happen if i changed the heads on my 350 Oldsmobile and put
the 260 oldsmobile heads on the 350, what would happen compression wise or
anything else that it would cocern it.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 20:08:18 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: master cylinder leak

My Buick (without power assist) had it's m/c go bad on me a couple of
years ago. With manual drums, the brakes were theoretical at best, but one
day I noticed extra pedal travel before the brakes caught. I drove home
and looked inside the m/c... and could see bottom. Just a fraction of an
inch of fluid in the system. Looked in the general vicinity and could see
no fluid, could see none on the inside of the wheels either, and then I
peeled back the firewall insulation up by the pedals. Brake fluid
everywhere under the carpet. It was leaking past the seal and going into
the interior via the rod. Fortunately it was an easy fix. But I was that
far from losing all brakes, scary with that single cylinder they used in
the old days.

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 19:06:23 EST
From: Onebil2mny@aol.com
Subject: Re: HEI distributor info

In a message dated 12/28/1998 9:21:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, hitson@i1.net
writes:

<< Don't rule out yet that your coil may  be bad, but a module is at least
somewhat likely . >>


Aftermarket modules tend not to work properly, especially in computer
controlled HEI's.  They quite often do not have the proper retard or advance
capabilities.

However, I think you should first adress the spark issue.  You say you do not
have a very hot spark.... it should be fat and blue/white.  It should make a
good Snap sound too.  If it does not, replace the coil.  Also, replace the cap
and rotor if you haven't already.  Make sure you install the ground when you
do this (it's the third wire, or metal part that goes to the center terminal.
If you don't it will fry the coil and probably the module too (it's a common
mistake, if it isn't there now, get one, install the new coil and ground, it
should do the trick).  

Hope this helps!
Bill K

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 19:14:49 -0500
From: David Brode <dbrode@hereintown.net>
Subject: high stall convertor choices

Hello,
   I believe a convertor rebuilder could "loosen" any convertor to slip to 
3000, but it will not be very, very
inefficient. I think, with an Olds anyway, that you should use a convertor 
built as "tight" as it can be. If you
need a higher stall rpm you need to go to a smaller convertor.

   I would not recommend a 10" convertor for constant street use. It's a pia. 
A tight TCI 10" will stall around
3800 behind a good 455 [with slicks]  I would say a tight 11" convertor should 
stall around 3100-3200 behind a
healthy 455[with slicks].

  My personal choice for the street is a switch pitch [variable pitch] TH 400 
with a 12" vp jetaway convertor.
The jetaway's 12" convertor stalls 2000/3000, as opposed to the vp TH 400's 
13" convertor, which stalls
1000/2500. You can easily convert a non vp TH 400 to accept a vp convertor. It 
does cost a few bucks. I believe
the switch pitch can be modified for more stall speed too, but i don't have 
any first hand knowledge there.
  I went from a switchpitch 2000/3000 convertor to a $275 10" 3800 TCI [non 
vp]and was VERY disappointed. The
3800 picked up a bit of E.T., but lost MPH.

  On the VEGA convertor subject. It's been a while since i've seen any, but i 
think they came in two different
sizes, 10"+11", i think. I think the larger one stalls around 3000-3200 in a 
full sized big motor car. I think
the smaller one really slips allot at partial throttle, and stalls higher too, 
of course.
 I wonder if the convertor rebuilders sell them?

Dave Brode
64 Cutlass

>
> Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 17:26:09 -0500
> From: "Arnold, W D" <w.d.arnold@lmco.com>
> Subject: Stall Converter Advise
>
> Hello folks,
> I know the best stall to get for 3000 rpm would be a performance
> aftermarket.
> BUT, I have a tranny guy telling me that he can get me whatever stall rpm I
> want using a std 12" converter. I don't know if he's making/modifying them
> or buying them that way. The cost of the units is $85 regardless of what rpm
> I want. He took me for a ride in his BB chevy truck that was stalling ,at
> the least, 3000 rpm(not break stall just riding around). Then he told me
> look underneath at the torque converter(he had the dust cover off) and sure
> enough a std huge(11" or 12" ) converter. I'm really baffled now. I want a
> higher stall (3000-3500) but I just can't afford the $225-$300 price of a
> TCI.
>
> Now, knowing what I know about stalls (which ain't much), I wonder if this
> guy is really shooting bull or can it be done. Has anyone heard of such a
> thing?
>
> Is it a vane pitch trick or what?
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 19:12:11 EST
From: MFATZII@aol.com
Subject: Re: Junk Yard and stickers needed

In a message dated 12/27/98 12:45:52 PM Central Standard Time,
mtupper@palacenet.net writes:

<< Hope that helps. If your buddy can get NOS stripes (particularly left rear
 quarter black), let *me* know. :-)
  >>


Thanks for the phone #, I will get it to my friend's brother a.s.a.p.  As for
the stripes, he needs gold for Silver on Silver.

Ryan

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 19:17:12 -0500
From: David Brode <dbrode@hereintown.net>
Subject: thanks for e-mail help

Hello all,
 Thanks to all who offered tips on my e-mail width problem. I'm sure i can 
figure it out now.
Dave Brode

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 16:20:26 PST
From: "Loren Knapp" <lorenknapp@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: COLD light?(Why did this message get to me?)

Why on earth did the following message get sent to me?

Loren


>From:	GT5726@aol.com
>Date:	Mon, 28 Dec 1998 17:27:28 EST
>To:	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>Subject: Re: COLD light?
>Reply-To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>
>In a message dated 12/28/98 10:51:21 AM Central Standard Time,
>rockman20@yahoo.com writes:
>
><<  I
> know this all too well because the damn sensor went to hell the first
> and only day I ever got to drive it! I thought that I screwed
> something up because the hot and cold light were both on and would
> alternate sometimes and everything else.
>  >>
>haha....toooooo funny!
>Collyn


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 16:32:24 -0800
From: "Steve Elijah" <selijah@eznet.com>
Subject: Vista-Cruiser sightings

Here is why my VC is worth the near $4k (including $500 CD system) I have in
it.

Tuesday morning at 7:00AM and 2 deg farenheit we leave Spokane and get on
I-90 toward Seattle 300 miles away.  Beautiful day, got wife, 10 and 8 year
old, big dog and stuffed with luggage, gifts and Christmas fixins.  Clear
dry road and cruise control set at 70mph.  Not a rattle, shake or hesitation
and we are in Seattle.  We play spot the VC whenever we drive. Saw a  70-72
Vista Cruiser parked at a restraunt off I-90 in Ellensburg, WA. My eight
year old daughter spotted it from the rear! It was orange and pretty beat
looking but definitely a running daily driver car with original paint job
showing thru.  About 1:30 PM, we all saw a mirror image VC coming at us on
the arterial in Brier, WA a mile from Grandma's house.  Funniest thing you
ever saw!  All of us pointing at him and all the occupants of his vehicle
pointing and looking at us!	Wednesday evening getting off I-5 at 272nd 
in
Federal Way, WA, I saw what looked like a lighter colored 68-70 VC.  It was
quite a distance away and could only see from the front.  Thursday afternoon
the 10 year old boy saw one dead (*sniff*) in a field behind a berry farm
near Puyallup, WA.  Sunday morning Seattle: We get on I-90 at 6:00am and
head east toward Snoqualmie pass in a steady Seattle drizzle and the traffic
advisory stating "Traction Tires Advised".  At North Bend, WA it turns to
steady Cascade Snowfall.  In the morning darkness and snow we approach the
pass and see the traffic advisory is "Traction Tires Required".  For the
next 2 hours and 75 miles my Vista-Cruiser hauls our carload steadily thru
the snow on the studded snow tires, while most others install chains.  3
hours later DOT closed I-90 Snoqualmie for 24 hours. The next 70 miles from
Cle Elum, WA to the Columbia river is mostly clear and wet road.  Then the
35-45mph cross winds and rain begins. After a meal at Ritzville, WA it is a
steady wet snow falling on I-90 for the last 70 miles to our Spokane home.
Not a VC spotted on that trip but we all got out of our VC and actually
thanked it for safely carrying us near 1200 miles thru extreme conditions
without fail for 6 days.  The purr of that 350 engine and the dualed exhaust
was a comfort throughout the trip.  Averaged 16 mpg and one quart of oil
went somewhere.

Questions:
1) in the crosswinds it sure seemed to wander side to side.  It runs true
and straight and holds alignment.  Would a rear sway bar help? Change to 15"
wheels and better tires from the cheap 14" radials  that are on it?
35-45mph crosswind will just do that to a car?
2) a very slight "dieseling" at shutdown started to occur. What would you
look to first?
3) anybody on the list own any of these Vista-Cruisers we spotted?

Thanks to you all for the great info and discussion found on this list in
1998 and Happy Oldsmobiling to you all in the New Year!

72 Vista-Cruiser 350 cid, 2bbl, HEI
owner of a $4000 "thousand dollar car"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 19:54:43 -0500
From: "Robert Collins" <collins@peterboro.net>
Subject: Re: body shop est.

Perhaps you should give some considerations to having the work done here in
Canada.  I just finished a vacation that took me to a F*rd dealers in Texas
and California (not by choice) and the posted labour rate was the same as
it is here in Canada.  The rate was about $65.00 per hour in all cases.
Considering the current exchange rate is about .65 cents US to one Canadian
dollar it would worth looking into.


Robert Collins
collins@peterboro.net

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 19:50:03 EST
From: CUTLASS442@aol.com
Subject: Re: street racing

Erik,

sorry you had to learn the hard way about the dangers of street racing. you
may have lost a valuable car, but you still have your life. I lost a very
close friend when i was a junior in high school. he was street racing and the
other guy ran him off the road. he ran his car head on into an oak tree. the
car was a 73 ranchero. after the accident you would have thought it to be a VW
or something smaller. thank you for your letter of advice.


richard
cutlass442@aol.com
1967 Cutlass

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 18:55:56 -0600
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: body shop est.

Robert, 
go to Mexico, they do good work for about 1/3 the price, but they make 1.50
an hour, still have talent!
Lou Biggs
lbiggs@intertek.net

- ----------
> From: Robert Collins <collins@peterboro.net>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: body shop est.
> Date: Monday, December 28, 1998 6:54 PM
> 
> Perhaps you should give some considerations to having the work done here
in
> Canada.  I just finished a vacation that took me to a F*rd dealers in
Texas
> and California (not by choice) and the posted labour rate was the same as
> it is here in Canada.  The rate was about $65.00 per hour in all cases.
> Considering the current exchange rate is about .65 cents US to one
Canadian
> dollar it would worth looking into.
> 
> 
> Robert Collins
> collins@peterboro.net

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 18:14:04 -0700
From: "Igor T. '81 DRB 455" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Re: Stall Converter Advise

I want a
>higher stall (3000-3500) but I just can't afford the $225-$300 price of a
>TCI.


What motor is this.  If you have a BB then a regular 12" converter would do
enough.  You will spin the tires regardless.  My 12 inch in the TH400 works
great and stalls way higher then 2000.  So what car is it and what motor.
Igor.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 20:21:33 -0800
From: Greg Pruett <gregp@intrlink.com>
Subject: Re: 

HCarn@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Hey Guys what would happen if i changed the heads on my 350 Oldsmobile and 
put
> the 260 oldsmobile heads on the 350, what would happen compression wise or
> anything else that it would cocern it.

There's a chart on the FAQ page that says your compression ratio would
go up .5-.6 points.  The problem is you will run into some restriction
with the valves.  The 260 valves are 1.517/1.305 intake/exhaust compared
to the 1.995/1.624 valves in a 350 #7 head.  Depending on what year 350
you use the head bolt diameter can be different than what the 260 heads
use.  

Sooooo.  They probably wouldn't be any advantage over a good 7 or 7A
head. 

Greg Pruett
72 Vista Cruiser
67 Cutlass Supreme
80 Cutlass Calais

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 20:27:19 EST
From: dpauliso@juno.com (Dave Paulison)
Subject: back again

Hi all,

Well, I'm back again.  It's been a while since I've subscribed to the
list.  Time constraints made it almost impossible for me to check my
email on a regular basis, so I was either unsubscribed by  Greg B. when
my mailbox started bouncing, ar I unsubscribed myself (I can't remember
which, but Greg might!)

ANYWAY...I have a few topics of discussion for you fine Oldsmobile
folk...First, I need a front bumper, grilles, and bumper brackets for my
'69 Olds Cutlass Supreme.  I was in an accident just tonight, thus
prompting my resubscription to the list.  Anybody who has a line on these
items (NOS not needed or even really wanted, just decent used parts will
do), please email me ~PRIVATELY~ at dpauliso@juno.com.  I would
appreciate any leads.

Second, I have decided to finally do some major work on my Olds.  It
really needs it.  I need to do the suspension, front and rear.  The front
has all poly-raz-ma-tazz bushings in it, I just need a drag link and four
tie rod ends, springs and shocks.  No big deal, really!  The rear is what
I have questions about.   I would like to get lower boxed control arms
for it, but I don't know if it would be a waste of my money, considering
the following:  The engine (original 350/1970 Pontiac Ram-Air 400 Q-jet)
will see a very close to stock rebuild.  Maybe a .010 over bore to make
the cylinders round again, original spec rods and pistons, headers and
dual exhaust, possibly an aluminum dual plane intake, and an
ever-so-slightly-hotter than stock cam (more modern grind, perhaps a
little more power, with good vacuum, idle, & gas mileage), put in a
points replacement unit, and convert to an internally regulated
alternator.  The tranny (TH350) has a fresh rebuild, stock with a B&M
shift kit (wonderful shifts!), and a new stock convertor.   I will retain
the original (code R2, 2.56) peg-leg rear.  Will the boxed lowers provide
any benefit, or is it a waste of my money?  The car will certainly never
see a track while I own it; it's a four door being rebuilt with "family
car" in mind (much more reliable and much cheaper than a new econo-box
Malibu [see below]).  The body work and interior are being worked on a
little at a time; for now I'm concentrating on the drive train of the car
(which is not really that bad for 210,000+ miles).  Any cam suggestions
would be appreciated, also.

Third, please let me know about the rumor (truth?) of the Cutlass being
discontinued.  It's a shame, if true, but it's really not the same car,
anyway.  They remind me of the Chevy (curses!) Malibu...you know, the
"car you knew America could build".  Yeah, I always knew they could build
one that is indistinguishable from a Camry/Maxima/929.  And now they've
done it.  Boy, that's great.  I sure am proud.

Fourth and finally, anybody who is interested in Olds toys, please send
me a line at dpauliso@juno.com.  I have only recently begun collecting
Olds related toys specifically, (though I have been collecting Hot Wheels
& Matchbox of all kinds for the last few years) and I would enjoy hearing
from anybody who collects or would like to sell/buy/trade Olds toys.

Anyhoo,  any comments on the above would be appreciated, and if it's
something the whole list doesn't need to see, please, oh please send it
to only me at dpauliso@juno.com.

Dave Paulison                    1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Palm Bay, Florida                1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@juno.com

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 20:34:21 -0500
From: "Ray Costanzo" <costanzo@netcarrier.com>
Subject: RE: hello all

<words> -----Original Message-----
<
<words> please no flame mail but I also have a turbo 3.8 out of a
<words> 87 GN that I wish
<words> to put in. I know its not an Olds but everyone has a chevy
<words> and I"m trying
<words> to do something diferent.
<words> 				Thanks
<words> 				Jeremy 87 442
<words>

Jeremy,
No flames here.  That is the only possible way to crossbreed your Olds with
no shame.  Anything from a Grand National is a blessing to any car.  It's
just a shame about the engine-less Buick.  Bless that Olds.

Ray Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass
costanzo@netcarrier.com
http://www.user1.netcarrier.com/~costanzo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 21:44:34 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: UNBOUNCE: back again

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 21:30:25 -0400
Subject: back again
From:	dpauliso@juno.com (Dave Paulison)

Hi all,

Well, I'm back again.  It's been a while since I've subscribed to the
list.  Time constraints made it almost impossible for me to check my
email on a regular basis, so I was either unsubscribed by  Greg B. when
my mailbox started bouncing, ar I uns*bscribed myself (I can't remember
which, but Greg might!)

ANYWAY...I have a few topics of discussion for you fine Oldsmobile
folk...First, I need a front bumper, grilles, and bumper brackets for my
'69 Olds Cutlass Supreme.  I was in an accident just tonight, thus
prompting my resubscription to the list.  Anybody who has a line on these
items (NOS not needed or even really wanted, just decent used parts will
do), please email me ~PRIVATELY~ at dpauliso@juno.com.  I would
appreciate any leads.

Second, I have decided to finally do some major work on my Olds.  It
really needs it.  I need to do the suspension, front and rear.  The front
has all poly-raz-ma-tazz bushings in it, I just need a drag link and four
tie rod ends, springs and shocks.  No big deal, really!  The rear is what
I have questions about.   I would like to get lower boxed control arms
for it, but I don't know if it would be a waste of my money, considering
the following:  The engine (original 350/1970 Pontiac Ram-Air 400 Q-jet)
will see a very close to stock rebuild.  Maybe a .010 over bore to make
the cylinders round again, original spec rods and pistons, headers and
dual exhaust, possibly an aluminum dual plane intake, and an
ever-so-slightly-hotter than stock cam (more modern grind, perhaps a
little more power, with good vacuum, idle, & gas mileage), put in a
points replacement unit, and convert to an internally regulated
alternator.  The tranny (TH350) has a fresh rebuild, stock with a B&M
shift kit (wonderful shifts!), and a new stock convertor.   I will retain
the original (code R2, 2.56) peg-leg rear.  Will the boxed lowers provide
any benefit, or is it a waste of my money?  The car will certainly never
see a track while I own it; it's a four door being rebuilt with "family
car" in mind (much more reliable and much cheaper than a new econo-box
Malibu [see below]).  The body work and interior are being worked on a
little at a time; for now I'm concentrating on the drive train of the car
(which is not really that bad for 210,000+ miles).  Any cam suggestions
would be appreciated, also.

Third, please let me know about the rumor (truth?) of the Cutlass being
discontinued.  It's a shame, if true, but it's really not the same car,
anyway.  They remind me of the Chevy (curses!) Malibu...you know, the
"car you knew America could build".  Yeah, I always knew they could build
one that is indistinguishable from a Camry/Maxima/929.  And now they've
done it.  Boy, that's great.  I sure am proud.

Fourth and finally, anybody who is interested in Olds toys, please send
me a line at dpauliso@juno.com.  I have only recently begun collecting
Olds related toys specifically, (though I have been collecting Hot Wheels
& Matchbox of all kinds for the last few years) and I would enjoy hearing
from anybody who collects or would like to sell/buy/trade Olds toys.

Anyhoo,  any comments on the above would be appreciated, and if it's
something the whole list doesn't need to see, please, oh please send it
to only me at dpauliso@juno.com.

Dave Paulison                    1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Palm Bay, Florida                1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@juno.com

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 20:50:54 EST
From: dpauliso@juno.com (Dave Paulison)
Subject: VC

I'm sure this must be old news, BUT I think that it is ~incredibly~ cool
that "That 70's Show" has a '69 VC in the lead car role of the show.  Who
cares about the Toyota...(what Toyota?)  


Dave Paulison                    1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Palm Bay, Florida                1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@juno.com  

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 20:59:31 -0500
From: "Michael Davis" <mdavis@metrobankandtrust.com>
Subject: Re: 69 H/O Model

No, the 67' Model was still dad's Oldsmobile with the square body and no
design, in my option, that would catch anyones eye.  The 68' was the
beginning of the Youngmobile with its fluid lines, curvy shapes, and
options that were geared towards the young active members of the buying
community.

					Mike Davis

- ----------
> From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: 69 H/O Model
> Date: Sunday, December 27, 1998 7:23 AM
> 
> On Sat, 26 Dec 1998, Cliff Simpson wrote:
> > I didn't realize that 1968 was the first year of the Youngmobile
> > campaign.  The 1969 ads also used this "name".
> 
> Actually I think they started using the slogan with the '67 models, but
> really got into it with the '68s. Lots of very dated-looking ads with
> models wearing late-60s psychedelic clothes... very cool nowadays.  
> 
> Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada
> 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 20:56:17 -0500
From: "Michael Davis" <mdavis@metrobankandtrust.com>
Subject: Re: 69 H/O Model

Yes, the 1968 was the first year as full model and the Youngmobile
campaign.  You mentioned that your 69' 442 doesn't have the word Oldsmobile
anywhere on the exterior.  It doesn't have the trunk lid chrome that runs
the full width of the lid.  My 68' has the Oldsmobile proudly displayed
there.  That is the only place.

						Mike Davis

- ----------
> From: Cliff Simpson <csimpson@ucalgary.ca>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: 69 H/O Model
> Date: Saturday, December 26, 1998 11:41 PM
> 
> 
> Michael Davis wrote:
> > 
> > What I would like to see is something for the first year as a full line
and
> > for the Youngmobile campaign...1968 442..<snip>
> 
> I didn't realize that 1968 was the first year of the Youngmobile
> campaign.  The 1969 ads also used this "name".
> 
> This has probably been beat to death on the list but I always thought it
> was cool that the word Oldsmobile does not appear anywhere on the
> exterior or in the cabin of a '69 442.  I've always assumed that it was
> because of the word Old in the name and not because they were ashamed of
> the cars:(
> 
> -- 
> Cliff Simpson
> csimpson@ucalgary.ca
> '69 442/400/th400/3.31p (Kermit)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 21:19:02 EST
From: GraphixRUs@aol.com
Subject: synthetic oils

  There as many opinions about this subject as there about cams.
   Some of you know of me & I don't blow any smoke.  
  My father , who was probably the "wisest " man I've ever known, simply said
; "Just tell what LITTLE you know".
  I do not have an engineering degree, but I was in the NAVY for 4 years &
graduateds several, diesel, hydraulic, refergeration, & administration
schools. I served aboard an LST from 1956  to 1960. ( by the way - PAGING -
Paul McGuire ).
  My biography over  - the synthetics.
  How many of our list members have first hand experience with diesels ? 
  My wifes cousin has Kenworth  (road tractors ) for over 30 years. He has
most always had  Cat engines. He  preferes a Cat mostly because they have a
more broad torque range. They cost a little more to repair, but he has only
lost one in 30 years, his first one that had LOTS 	of miles on it.  
Years ago
he started using   synthetic in the engine  (15 - 40) , & their differential &
transmission lubricants. No down time since.  Don changes the oil ffilters at
12,000 miles & runs the oil about  300,000 miles betweeen changes. Amsoil, the
brand he  is using has a test kit , for dilution  etc. available for $15 to
test your self. Every 100,000 he spends a little more & sends a sample in & t 
  I understand the metaluragical, mass ,operating temperatures, etc.,etc.,
differences between diesel & gas. The three functions of  " engine " oil , as
I  was taught, are lubrication, cooling & suspend foreign particles to be
cleaned from the system. A diesel runs a lot dirter than gas ( internal wear
etc. ) so if a diesel will run that many miles  a smaller gas engine should do
better. The small hi reving gas engines of today do produce more heat , but
that  is synthetics fortay: disapating  that heat.
  Don said using synthetics in the diff will save over 1/2 mile to a gallon
increase in economy. That  is a lot when you are talking about  5.7  mpg
hauling  78,000 lbs. The operating temp of his Cat ,  475hp,   1800 ft lb
torque at  1200 rpm dropped nearly   15  degrees.
  As for leaking, his  oldest Cat  that has not been in-framed has about
1,300,000 miles on it & no leaks.
  Some of you may know, our son Rog II has started an OTR  truckin co.
R.U.Trucking  inc., here in nc. He has an Amsoil dealersip &  is extremely
happy with it. 
 I don't know if any of this will help some  of you make a decision on
changing  but I do know that the oil companies will come to your club meetings
& put on a demonstration free.

  Rowland Graphics  would also like to thank those of you that have taken
advantage of our services this last year,  mouse pad, t-shirts, coffee cups,
license plates  etc.
   Happy  New Year
  Roger Utter
 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 21:49:30 -0500 (EST)
From: "Douglas J Harkema" <harkema2@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: Re: body shop est.

No color change involved and base clear coat

Doug
70 CS covertible
Holt, MI

>
> In a message dated 98-12-28 16:20:51 EST, you write:
>
> << Well there is some body work involved - rear of right fender replaced,
> doors
>  redone inside,  includes jams trunk ect...  fix all little dings and 
whatever

>  is found under old paint.  Not much it is a very solid car. >>
>
> If there is that much body work involved it does not sound too bad.  I think
> it might cost that much here in New Jersey.
>
> Will there be clear coar on it also?
>
> Are you changing the color too?
>
> Lou Principe
> 69 W-30
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 22:19:50 EST
From: DYeager535@aol.com
Subject: Re: diesel stroker and other possibilities [long]

In a message dated 12/28/98 3:56:37 PM Pacific Standard Time,
Onebil2mny@aol.com writes:

<< Don't forget how ever, all 403's are not windowed.  I have been told that
most
 T/A's with a 403 have solid webbed blocks.
 
 See Ya!
 Bill K >>

      My '77 block has the same casting number as used in the T/A's...windowed
webs...I was disappointed, I wanted to be the proof that they existed : (
Dorian

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 22:27:53 EST
From: DYeager535@aol.com
Subject: WAS: Husky G-bodies weight of gas

In a message dated 12/28/98 2:59:37 PM Pacific Standard Time,
gregp@intrlink.com writes:

<< The weight of your H/O dosen't sound too far off I guess.  If you had a
 full tank of gas that can add a lot of weight too.  Wonder how much 16
 gallons of gas weighs anyway.   >>

     I bet someone on here knows for sure, but water is 8.8 lbs a gallon, so
gas would be somewhat less than that.    Dorian

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 22:41:34 EST
From: KS7RACING@aol.com
Subject: Fwd: Birthday Greetings

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- --part0_914902894_boundary
Content-ID: <0_914902894@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Thanks to all who sent Chelsea birthday messages and e-cards, they were all
greatly appreciated and reinforced the idea that me spending time on the
computer wasn't so bad after all.......

In a message dated 12/28/98 8:58:53 PM Central Standard Time, AK7DE3GB7
writes:

<< 
 I just wanted to thank everyone who sent me birthday greetings.  Ken seems to
have told everyone how old I am.  What he forgot to tell you is that he was
mistaken for my dad at one time.  I'm not quite sure if that means I look that
young, or he looks that old.  Oh well, thanks anyway.  Chelsea >>

Did I mention how old she was going to be?  Aww, shame on me........  For
those who might want to view a picture of us and debate the previously
mentioned statement, there's a new picture of the three of us at:

http://members.aol.com/ks7racing/pixpage.htm

Thanks again, and Take Care!
Ken
Kansas City, Kansas
KS7RACING@aol.com

- --part0_914902894_boundary
Content-ID: <0_914902894@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2>
Content-type: message/rfc822
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Content-disposition: inline

From: AK7DE3GB7@aol.com
Return-path: <AK7DE3GB7@aol.com>
To: KS7RACING@aol.com
Subject: Birthday Greetings
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 21:58:53 EST
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

I just wanted to thank everyone who sent me birthday greetings.  Ken seems to
have told everyone how old I am.  What he forgot to tell you is that he was
mistaken for my dad at one time.  I'm not quite sure if that means I look that
young, or he looks that old.  Oh well, thanks anyway.  Chelsea

- --part0_914902894_boundary--

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 19:28:14 -0800
From: Greg Rollin <supercars@transport.com>
Subject: Re: WAS: Husky G-bodies weight of gas

DYeager535@aol.com wrote:
> 
>      I bet someone on here knows for sure, but water is 8.8 lbs a gallon, so
> gas would be somewhat less than that.    Dorian


1 (US) gallon of gas weighs 6.2 lbs

 

Greg Rollin

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 22:44:46 -0500
From: "Frederick Nissen" <FSNissen@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Deltas, Deltas everywhere...

The package you are referring to was the "Crown Landau."   This was a '76
only option on Royale Coupes.  It added a padded vinyl roof that blocked off
the ugly rear quarter windows added with the body freshening of '74.  As you
noted, it also included a  stainless band just forward of the vinyl.  Sport
mirrors and color keyed wheel discs completed the package.  This option
should not be confused with the Holiday 88 package offered from '78 through
'81.  The latter was a bucket and console option for the base Delta 88
Coupe.  This package also included sport mirrors, sport steering wheel and
color keyed wheel discs.  Option availability was as for the regular Delta
88.

Regards,
Fred
1969 98 Conv.
1977 Delta 88
1977 98 Regency Coupe
1978 Delta Royale Coupe
1979 98 LS Coupe
- -----Original Message-----
From: Martin Thomas-WLTM07 <Thomas_Martin-WLTM07@css.mot.com>
To: 'oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca' <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Monday, December 28, 1998 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: Deltas, Deltas everywhere...


>The LS Delta came in 4 door only.
>
>In 1976 returned (? I think the Holiday 88 was around in the 50's, right?)
>the Holiday Delta 88 Royale, which was 2 door only and had no rear windows
>between the B and C pillar.  The car had a nice targa strip and a white
>landau roof.  Very nice cars.  Came with special color keyed hubcaps and
>luxury trim options.
>Standard engines, L34 350 or the 455.  THM375 (not "B") standard in 350
>powered cars, and THM400 in 455 cars.
>
>I have a good dealer picture of the 76 Holiday Coupe Delta 88, if anyone is
>interested, please let me know.
>If someone has a Delta 88 website and would like this, I would be glad to
>see it up on the web.  My guess is the reason Olds brought this body style
>in is the demise of the Convertible.  Shame they did that.  The 76
>Convertible would have been so nice.....
>
>Thomas Martin
>80 Turbo Trans AM
>85 Cutlass Supreme Rocket 350 CCC
>91 Bonneville LE 3800
>
>
>>Officially, there were only two body styles on the 88 from '77 to '85.
The
>>"town sedan" ("69") and the "coupe" ("37").  There was, however, a
>variation
>>on the roofline in ''77-'79.  The '78 and '79 coupes ordered with the
>padded
>>half vinyl roof got a thicker "B" pillar and smaller quarter windows.
>>
>>In response to Greg's comments, the Custom Cruiser was on the same 116"
>>wheelbase as the Delta 88 and other "B" body cars. The '77-'79 Custom
>>Cruisers also used a Chevrolet body.  The only Olds parts other than some
>>trim were the hood and nose cone.
>>
>>The '77 Delta coupe with the Pontiac / Buick LeSabre roof is also featured
>>in Helen Early's book on page 391.  This was the original plan for the
>Delta
>>88.  Olds had enough clout in GM at the time to get $$$ for an Olds only
>>roof line for the '77-'79 Delta 88 coupes.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Fred
>
>
>Thomas Martin
>80 Turbo Trans AM
>85 Cutlass Supreme Rocket 350 CCC
>91 Bonneville LE 3800
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 22:47:18 EST
From: KS7RACING@aol.com
Subject: Weight Of Gas

Dorian,

For racing, we always figure fuel at 7 pounds per gallon, so we can estimate
how much we need to weigh before the race to come out at legal weight after
the race - 3000 pounds with driver.  It really hurts to run well all night and
get DQ'd for being too light afterwards on the scales.

Take Care,
Ken Snyder
Kansas City, Kansas
KS7RACING@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 22:51:37 -0000
From: "RANDY A GEISEL" <RANDYGEISEL@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Husky G-bodies weight of gas

> Wonder how much 16 gallons of gas weighs anyway.   >>


A gallon of gasoline weighs 6.0 lbs.  16 x 6 = 96 lbs.  

Randy

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 23:07:02 EST
From: BradRoss79@aol.com
Subject: Re: Deltas, Deltas everywhere...

In a message dated 12/28/98 7:47:34 PM Pacific Standard Time,
FSNissen@worldnet.att.net writes:

<< The package you are referring to was the "Crown Landau."   This was a '76
 only option on Royale Coupes.  It added a padded vinyl roof that blocked off
 the ugly rear quarter windows added with the body freshening of '74.  As you
 noted, it also included a  stainless band just forward of the vinyl.  Sport
 mirrors and color keyed wheel discs completed the package >>

There was one of these at the 100th anniversary celebration in Lansing, 1997.
It was white inside and out. Very nice, and unusual car. Does anyone know how
many of them were produced?
B.Ross

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 23:10:23 EST
From: CUTLASS442@aol.com
Subject: Re: hello all

Jeremy,

don't feel alone in your Buick motored olds project. I'm in the process of
installing a 1973 Buick 455 in my '67 cutlass. I couldn't find another olds
455 to replace my cracked block. I found a '73 Riviera for $150 and decided to
go with that. Good luck on your "oldsmobuick"  :-)

richard 
cutlass442@aol.com
1967 Cutlass (oldsmobuick)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 23:18:09 -0500
From: "Frederick Nissen" <FSNissen@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Deltas, Deltas everywhere...

My references show 4,360 of the 33,364 Delta 878 Royale Coupes produced in
'76 were ordered with the Y-61 Crown Landau package.
Regards,
Fred
- -----Original Message-----
From: BradRoss79@aol.com <BradRoss79@aol.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Monday, December 28, 1998 11:09 PM
Subject: Re: Deltas, Deltas everywhere...


>In a message dated 12/28/98 7:47:34 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>FSNissen@worldnet.att.net writes:
>
><< The package you are referring to was the "Crown Landau."   This was a
'76
> only option on Royale Coupes.  It added a padded vinyl roof that blocked
off
> the ugly rear quarter windows added with the body freshening of '74.  As

you
> noted, it also included a  stainless band just forward of the vinyl.
Sport
> mirrors and color keyed wheel discs completed the package >>
>
>There was one of these at the 100th anniversary celebration in Lansing,
1997.
>It was white inside and out. Very nice, and unusual car. Does anyone know
how
>many of them were produced?
>B.Ross
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 23:22:07 EST
From: CUTLASS442@aol.com
Subject: Re: 69 H/O Model

In a message dated 12/28/98 6:10:43 PM Pacific Standard Time,
mdavis@metrobankandtrust.com writes:

<< 
 No, the 67' Model was still dad's Oldsmobile with the square body and no
 design, in my option, that would catch anyones eye.  The 68' was the
 beginning of the Youngmobile with its fluid lines, curvy shapes, and
 options that were geared towards the young active members of the buying
 community. >>


mike,

are you saying that my '67 cutlass is for olds people.....lol

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 00:46:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Mritunjay Singh <msingh@tristan.tn.cornell.edu>
Subject: Bearings, oil pump or high crankcase pressure?

I put up a posting (reproduced below) about a problem with my car. I got
several theories and I'm  putting them in this posting to see if we can
converge to any consensus :)

I recently bought this car.
Car: 1986 Oldsmobile ninety-eight regency brougham
Engine: 3.8L V6 Sequential multiport injection.
Ignition: C3I Type II

Problems

1) The part of the engine front cover above the oil pan has cracked
causing the crank sensor(which is mounted on it) to break. The crack
also resulted in one of the bolts holding the oil pan to snap. A piece
of metal about 3 square inches has actually come right off from above
the oil pan causing oil leakage. The oil-pan gasket has come out partly.

2) Before the sensor was destroyed, the car used to run for about 30
seconds and
then started giving out huge amounts of blue fumes from the tailpipe. I
tried removing the oil filler cap and running it. Now it gave lots of
blue smoke from both the tailpipe and the oil filler.

3) Sometimes, the starter would crank slow and sometimes it wouldn't
crank at all. I changed the battery to no avail. I did an oil change
(the oil was filthy!) and it started cranking again. But later on other
occasions, it again wouldn't crank sometimes and sometimes it would
crank very well. The starter is only 6 months old.

There  are several theories

1) Cracked piston ring causing huge blowby gases causing buildup of high
pressure in crankcase causing damage mentioned above. This doesn't seem
right as I don't see much fumes coming out of the hole..

2) Siezed oil pump. perhaps causing the damage physically . I don't
think this is right because there's a lot of oil leakage when the engine
is running indicating some pump action....

3) PCV valve clogged. Seems unlikely to cause such pressure buildups. I
did change the valve but haven't been able to start it again due to the
broken cranshaft sensor(which I'm in the process of replacing).

4) Front bearings damaged.

This car seems to have been abused a lot by the previous owner.
What should I do next?

Thanks
- -Mritunjay

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 00:04:27 -0500
From: Gasman24 <stulk@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: diesel stroker and other possibilities [long]

DYeager535@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 12/28/98 3:56:37 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> Onebil2mny@aol.com writes:
> 
> << Don't forget how ever, all 403's are not windowed.  I have been told that
> most
>  T/A's with a 403 have solid webbed blocks.
> 
>  See Ya!
>  Bill K >>
> 
>       My '77 block has the same casting number as used in the 
T/A's...windowed
> webs...I was disappointed, I wanted to be the proof that they existed : (
> Dorian

 Just to drop a line or two in on this, I've got two 403's both from
T/A's and both have windowed web's.
 Seems there was a thread on this matter not long ago and for the most
part, (that I remember) the soild 403 main blocks just don't exist.
Scott

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 20:51:58 -0800
From: Greg Rollin <supercars@transport.com>
Subject: Re: Vista-Cruiser sightings

Steve Elijah wrote:
> 
<snip>

> Questions:
> 1) in the crosswinds it sure seemed to wander side to side.  It runs true
> and straight and holds alignment.  Would a rear sway bar help? Change to 15"
> wheels and better tires from the cheap 14" radials  that are on it?
> 35-45mph crosswind will just do that to a car?
> 2) a very slight "dieseling" at shutdown started to occur. What would you
> look to first?
> 3) anybody on the list own any of these Vista-Cruisers we spotted?



Steve,


(1) Due to the big-as-a-house sides of the Vista Cruiser,
it is going to inherently be more susceptible to the effects 
of side winds than a sedan.  No matter what you do. 
Although
anything you can do to lessen the body roll from wind impact 
will provide a more stable (and safer) driving
condition.        
The rear anti-sway bar would help as would the stiffer
sidewall
tires.  You might also consider some KYB gas shocks and
Air-Lifts.  
The Air-Lifts will allow the car (when fully loaded as you 
described) to maintain the proper ride height.  Thereby
retaining 
the alignment settings.  As any change in "rake" will change
the
settings (unless it was aligned with the same rake).  

(2)  The first thing I would check is idle speed.  If it's 
too high, this will cause a run-on condition.  Next would be
ignition timing.  Too much initial advance will do the same. 
After a 1200 mile journey, I think we can rule out carbon 
buildup as the cause.

(3)  Don't know of the owners of the VC's you and yours 
spotted.  However, had you traveled about 70 miles 
south of Federal Way, you would have seen our Vista 
Cruiser (visible from I-5 even).  But you can still 
see it at:
    
http://supercarsunlimited.com/photos/stable.html

 
Greg Rollin
Supercars Unlimited (Where Cutlass/4-4-2 is ALL we do!) 
Portland, Oregon  503-244-8249

Web Site:
http://www.supercarsunlimited.com

E-mail: supercars@transport.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 23:59:57 -0500
From: "R. Grant" <kgrant442@home.com>
Subject: Re Body Shop

I had my Cutlass Painted 2 years ago and it cost me 1500$ CDN or 900$ US the
paint was 600$ alone.
It was a colour change as the car was silver, we painted it the base colour
for candy black (pearl in black) PPG paint.
There was minor body work, just fixing some dents and minor surface rust.
The car was block sanded 4 times to make sure the body was straight. The car
was then painted one base coat, then wet sanded then 4 more coats of base,
then 4 coats of clear. I bet this is the only Cutlass painted this colour. I
found that if you take the trim off yourself and do some of the minor work
it will cut the cost quite a bit as most shops charge 55-65$ an hour.

Kevin Grant
80 Cutlass

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 00:35:33 -0500
From: "Erik Gertsen" <ainode@frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: master cylinder leak

fix that leak dude, or you may have the pleasure as i have of rolling down a
hill to a stop sign and nearly going thruogh it and a small imported pick-up
truck with a 5000 lb vehicle.
Erik Gertsen
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <JonKrisInc@aol.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, December 28, 1998 4:10 PM
Subject: master cylinder leak


>Happy holidays to all. Hope you got the toy you wanted. I got an Eastwood
>adjustable stool on wheels with a tool shelf. Really cool. Now, down to
>business. My brake pedal had way too much travel yesterday and after
removing
>the MC cover, I noticed the larger compartment was half empty. I checked
all
>the usual places ie. calipers, lines etc. and it appears to be coming from
the
>back of the MC attached to the booster. Is this the probable place it would
>fail? Should i replace the MC?, and is it a pretty straighforward
proposition?
>Should I bench bleed the new one, etc? Any tips would be greatly
appreciated.
>Tia
>Bruce
>75 Delta 88 conv. (duals of course)
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 22:57:27 -0800
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Re: Vista-Cruiser sightings

Well you certainly see more then we do in these parts.  There is one local
'72 I have seen twice and one '66 that I've spotted twice in 3 yrs (nice
all original, middle aged gentleman driver - love to get ahold of him some
day to discuss it!!).

Its always nice to hear that these $600+ finds are worth the 4 digit price
tags they now carry:-)


Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, CA

'66 Toronado, '67 Delta 88 Custom, '72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible,  '72
Vista Cruiser, '80 GMC 1/2 Ton

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com
My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/
Subscribe To : Lisa's Classic Oldsmobile Bulletin Board Mailing List:
Lisa's Oldsmobile FREE Banner Exchange
http://exo.com/~jht/olds/banners/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 01:19:27 -0600
From: "Peter Landowski" <PETTRIX@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: body shop est.

That estimate is not outrageous. It cost me IN SUPPLIES ALONE around
$2000.00. The only way you can paint an entire car for $1000.00 is using
the cheapest products, not going to bare metal and just doing an "Earl
Shieb" paint job. For a down to bare metal, make the car straight, make it
look like new paint job price ranges of $4000-$8000 are normal. 
Pettrix@prodigy.net

- ----------
> From: Semantana Chris (ONEX) <SemantanaC@tce.com>
> To: 'oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca'
> Subject: RE: body shop est.
> Date: Monday, December 28, 1998 2:38 PM
> 
> > I went out to see what it was going to cost me to get my 70 cutlass
> > convertible
> > painted.  One guy would strip it and paint it for $4,500.  The other
guy
> > wouldn't strip it but came up with between $3,500 and $4,000.
> > 
> For JUST paint!!?!?!?!  WOW!!!!!!  If there's body work involved then I
can
> understand those estimates, but to just strip and repaint, that's
outrageous
> ..... well unless your going with multiple candies and pearls and other
such
> custom paint work.  I've gotten estimates to repaint my 89 mustang for
> $1200/$1300.  And one estimate was exactly the way I wanted it done,
remove
> all emblems, lights, moldings, etc, strip off old paint and repaint
> basecoat/clearcoat in original color.  No body work was involved.  My mom
> recently had her 88 mustang repainted the original two tone colors, she
also
> had some body work done and it was around $2400.  And yes I know there is
a
> size difference between the mustang and the cutlass, but I don't know
about
> $2000 worth of a difference.  Just my $.02
> 
> Chris Smetana
> Terre Haute, IN
> http://www.abcs.com/chris
> 
> 1969 W-31
> 1969 4-4-2 parts car
> plus others

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 01:28:19 -0600
From: "Peter Landowski" <PETTRIX@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: body shop est.

I am curious, did you paint the whole car, or just a section? I am not
trying to be mean but you claim that you painted a car for $300.00 and it
came out "perfect". I find that hard to believe. Then again, what is your
definition of "perfect". What type of paint did you use? I know good
quality pant such as DuPont can cost $200.00 a gallon for the basecoat.
Then you must buy the clear and the reducers and hardeners for both. What
about primer and sanding paper? You did sand the car didn't you? I hope so
because I wouldn't wash the car because the paint will peel off.

Again I am not trying to be a jerk, I feel that a post claiming a "perfect"
paint job costing $300.00 is not only ridiculous but a blatant lie. Why not
post a pic of the car on the net and maybe we can get a "general idea" of
what "perfect" is. 

Also using periods at the end of a sentence would be nice, instead of
having a run-on sentence.

Pettrix@prodigy.net

- ----------
> From: RICH6986@aol.com
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: body shop est.
> Date: Monday, December 28, 1998 3:00 PM
> 
> In a message dated 12/28/98 3:57:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> SemantanaC@tce.com writes:
> 
> << 
>  >>
> just do it yourself you save alot of money cost my friend $300 when we
painted
> his car came out perfect but then again we already had a compressor, and
all
> of the sprayers for 
it							Rich

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #1689
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