Please respond to oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
To:	oldsmobile-digest@chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #1670


oldsmobile-digest    Wednesday, December 16 1998    Volume 01 : Number 1670



Re: cutlass supreme engine offset
Re: Diesel Question
Re: Heater Blower Relay (a thread off of
Re: Hooker 3202 headers
Re: Olds and F-Bodies
Re: Hooker 3202 headers
Re: cutlass supreme engine offset
Re: cutlass supreme engine offset
Re: Pre-Paint Metal Treatment
Re: PISTON FILLING
RE: Pre-Paint Metal Treatment
Re: GJC
Re: cutlass supreme engine offset
Re: Olds and F-Bodies
Re: PISTON FILLING
Re: Olds and F-Bodies
Re: Olds and F-Bodies
Re: GJC
don't believe (was offset)
RE: don't believe (was offset)
Re: appraisals
Headers repros (Was 442 convert?)
Re: Olds in Movies
RE: don't believe (was offset)
1961 Oldsmobile Limousine
Re: PISTON FILLING
Re: PISTON FILLING
Re: Re: 700R4 tranny w/not shift (Non Olds)
Re: PF-31 Oil Filters
Re: UNBOUNCE: Translator Needed
Re: Olds and F-Bodies
Re: cutlass supreme engine offset
Re: PF-31 Oil Filters
Shelby Series I
dazed and confused
Re: cutlass supreme engine offset (correction)
More Q-Jet hints: Idle Problems
Re: Headers repros (Was 442 convert?)
Re: Hooker 3202 headers
re: engine offset 
Re: PISTON FILLING
cutlass front coil spring replacement
Emissions
Re: AM Radio is killing me! WTB '76 AM/FM Cassette!
Re: CC-IROC's visitors
Re: cutlass supreme engine offset
Re: Timing Chain replacement
re: engine offset
Re: Headers repros (Was 442 convert?)
Re: GJC
Re:more bench racing[8000rpm 350]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 08:17:40 -0700
From: Roger Peterson <rkp@uswest.net>
Subject: Re: cutlass supreme engine offset

I'm also putting Mondello's 1 7/8" tube Hookers in my '72 Cutlass Supreme with 
a
'73 modified 455/462 (currently being built).  I'd greatly appreciate any news
you or anyone else can provide me on this "transplant."  Roger:)  
rkp@uswest.net

Poppy30 wrote:

> THE ENGINE IS OFFSET TO THE RIGHT, NOT THE LEFT. RIGHT AND LEFT ARE
> DETERMINED FROM  DRIVER POSITION SITTING IN CAR. IT IS ONLY 1 INCH TO THE
> RIGHT. I HAVE A 71 SUPREME 350 THAT I AM PUTTING A 455 IN, AND HAVE BEEN
> DEALLING WITH THIS FOR AWHILE. I TALKED TO JOE MONDELLO AND HE SAID YOU HAVE
> TO MOVE THE ENGINE BACK OVER, BUT HE COULD NOT TELL ME HOW TO DO THIS, JUST
> THAT IT HAS BEEN DONE.I HAVE SEVERAL DIFFERENT FRAME BRACKETS, SO WHEN THE
> TIME COMES FOR THE TRANSPLANT, ICAN HOPEFULLY GET IT IN CENTER.NO ONE MAKES
> HEADERS FOR THESE VEHICLES, I CALLED ALL OF THEM. BOUGHT THE HOOKERS,WISH ME
> LUCK.....
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Carri <jcarri@alesis1.usa.com>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Date: Tuesday, December 15, 1998 8:49 PM
> Subject: cutlass supreme engine offset
>
> Hi all,
>        I discovered recently that some model year Cutlass Supremes and
> Cutlass S's had the engine mounted offset to the left of the car
> centreline by about two inches, making header clearance, sparkplug
> access, etc, very tight (esp. with the 455, but even with the 350).
> My '72 with 350-4bbl V8 appears to fit the description, as Heddman
> lists in its header application footnotes "will not fit Cutlass
> Supreme and Cutlass S models".
>
>     My questions:
>
>    1) Does anyone make a 1 5/8" or similar small-tube header that fits
> an Olds 350 in a 72' Supreme or S model?   Anyone have experence with
> how hard an install this is?
>
>    2) How hard would it be to move the engine to the same location as
> regular Cutlass and 442 models?  What parts would be required?  (is it
> just different motor mounts that bolt in, or is welding and torching
> required.)
>
>    3) Anyone know WHY the engine is offset to the left in these
> models?  Was it for improved weight distribution or something? One
> would think offsetting the engine would worsen lateral weight
> distribution.
>
>    4) A beginners question - what was the stock automatic transmission
> in a '72 Olds Cutlass with the 350/4bbl engine? A TH350 or a TH400?
> (I'm new to Oldsmobiles and GM cars in general.)
>
>    Much appreciate any info on this!
>
> -John Carri
>
> '72 Olds Cutlass Supreme (350/4bbl , auto)    (my daily driver)
> '73 Plymouth Roadrunner  (340/4bbl, 727 auto) (a work in progress)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:19:53 -0500
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: Diesel Question

If I'm not mistaken (and someone correct me if I'm way off) the 350 diesel
and the 350 gas were, essentially the same block.
__________

No, there were the same only to the extent that the bore and external
interfaces were the same.  The diesel block is significantly heavier duty,
with much thicker cylinder walls, main webs, etc.  In addition, the diesel
uses the big block's 3" main bearing size as opposed to the small block
size (which I unfortunately don't know, since, as we all know, I'm a big
block snob...).  As a result, the diesel block is much heavier than a gas
350 block.

Other differences include much beefier connecting rods, a significantly
higher compression ratio (what, like 22:1?), and obviously unique heads and
intake with injectors.  Also, the diesel uses a vacuum pump to power
accessories, which takes the place of the unneeded distributor (or was that
where the injector pump went?).

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 07:29:42 PST
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Heater Blower Relay (a thread off of

>>> Thanks Andy and Mike for thinking this through with me,
>>
>> If you get stuck again, just ship us the car and we'll take a look.
>
> Just ship it anyway.  We'll find something to fix

You betcha.

Y'know that rumbling, vroom-vroom noise you hear whenever you start
the "engine"? (The engine is the thing under the hood.) Big trouble.
Yessir. Y'know how the car shoots forward whenever you step on the
pedal on the right? That means you probably got an "accelerator" on
the engine. We can take care of that right quick. Get it over here.
We'll call you back when it's ready to be picked up.

- -- Andy

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 08:27:57 -0700
From: Roger Peterson <rkp@uswest.net>
Subject: Re: Hooker 3202 headers

Joe Mondello convinced me to purchase his Hooker 3202 headers (1 7/8" tubes 
into 3
1/2" collectors) for the 455 I'm having built to replace my existing 350 in a 
'72
Cutlass Supreme.  In your experience, are these headers going to fit with 
relative
ease?  Roger:)  rkp@uswest.net

WMACHINES@aol.com wrote:

> regarding engine offset...
>   >>
> I beg to differ,  Oldsmobile 70-72 Cutlass frames are the same for hardtop or
> Supreme. Wheel base is 112 inches...  If you are wanting to use headers that
> have no cleareance problems and no modifications done to the car.  Buy the
> Hooker Comp headers.  They will
> fit no problem.  I have scraped and parted out many many 70-72 Oldsmobiles 
and
> I have never seen Offset frame mounts.
>
> One other thing.  If you want to transplant a 455 engine into a 350 car.
> Leave the 350 frame mounts alone and use the 350 motor mounts.  The only
> disadvantage to this is that the enigine will set up 3/4 to and 1inch higher,
> thats all
>
> W MACHINES (Mark Prince)
> 72 442 W-30 race rocket
> If you need engine answers, contact the Oldsmobile Street Rockets at
> http://members.aol.com/wmachines/site5.html

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:29:02 -0500
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: Olds and F-Bodies

Anyhoo, did Olds ever consider making an F-body?
If so, are there any pictures, on the 'Net or otherwise, of such a
beast?
_________

Two Olds F-body related tidbits.

First, when the F-body first came out in 1967, Olds lobbied heavily with GM
brass to get one for itself.  As we know, Olds was eventually turned down,
but got the approval to build the 68 H/O as a consolation prize.

Second, while not an F-body exactly, Olds built a styling exercise in the
early 70s called the XP-889, which looked a lot like the second generation
Camaro.  This was actually a smaller car, based on the then-new H-body
platform (the Vega).  The car was pretty cool, and had a large, removable
hatch which could be left off to turn the car into a pickup, or replaced
with a notchback or wagon style hatch (shades of the later Nissan Pulsar).
Engine was undisclosed, but the car sprouted twin exhaust pipes.
Obviously, nothing came of this exercise immediately, but Olds did
eventually get an H-body derivative in the form of Ken Snyder's beloved
Starfire.  An article, with pictures, appeared in Automobile Quarterly last
year.

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:49:27 -0500
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: Hooker 3202 headers

One other thing.  If you want to transplant a 455 engine into a 350 car.
> Leave the 350 frame mounts alone and use the 350 motor mounts.  The only
> disadvantage to this is that the enigine will set up 3/4 to and 1inch
higher,
> thats all
>
> W MACHINES
___________

You're correct, Mark, in suggesting the use of the 350 mounts as a matched
set for the big block swap, but just to avoid confusion (since this is a
fairly frequent thread), the engine itself (as relates to crank centerline)
will be in exactly the same place as the small block (which it needs to be
for tranny alignment, fan location in the shroud, etc).  The engine
_appears_ to sit higher because a big block _is_ one inch taller than a
small block - the heads and carb flange are obviously further away from the
crank centerline.  The problems come with mixing big block motor mounts
with small block frame mounts, or vice versa.

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 08:03:08 PST
From: "jason shreve" <jasonshreve@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: cutlass supreme engine offset

NO!! Have to call you on this one.  The Supreme's and S's are offset 
like he said.  There  was a question about it in Hot Rod or Car Craft a 
couple of months back.  I am at work now, but I will find it later 
tonight.

>Having put headers on my 72 S (350) all I can say is "WHAT?"  I have 
>never heard of this and consider it highly suspect.  Personally I think 
Heddman is just off thier rockers or it may have been misread (no flame 
intended.)


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 08:17:14 PST
From: "jason shreve" <jasonshreve@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: cutlass supreme engine offset

WRONG!!!!!!!!  Like I said I will post the question and reply in Hot Rod 
or Car Craft later today.  (Not trying to Flame.)


>
>I beg to differ,  Oldsmobile 70-72 Cutlass frames are the same for 
hardtop or
>Supreme. Wheel base is 112 inches,  The convertable is a boxed frame 
and also
>112 inches.  The Cutlass 4 door and Cutlass Wagon are 116 inches.  THE 
ENGINES
>ARE NOT OFF SET in any of these models.  The only difference is that 
they make
>three different frame engine mounts. They are as follow   250 6 
cylinder, 350
>and 455 V-8's
>I have never seen Offset frame mounts.   


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:21:16 -0500
From: Brian Kerr <bkerr@golden.net>
Subject: Re: Pre-Paint Metal Treatment

I would sandblast to remove loose scale and paint with POR-15. They claim
that it is not necessary or desireable to remove all rust down to bare
metal.  I did my firewall and floorpan inside and out and used semigloss
and gloss black POR-15. It looks very good.
They have a web site. I think that it is www.por-15.com or something like
that.

Brian Kerr

Rock Man wrote:

> Okay, how do these people paint a frame with a frame off restoration?
> Do they get the frame down to bare metal? I find this hard to do due
> to the fact of the pits in the frame. Secondly, say a person can't get
> a piece of metal down to shiny metal before applying primer and paint.
> Is there anything that can be put on the metal that will nuetralize
> the rust and fill in the pits? I want to paint the engine compartment
> of my Olds and I would like to paint the frame as well. (At least as
> far back as I can without taking the body off) Is there something that
> I can coat the frame with?
>
> Del
>
> ==
> Rock-Man's Page http://www.angelfire.com/nd/RockMan
> rockman20@yahoo.com
> 1986 Honda Accord DX
> 1983 Honda Big Red 3-wheeler
> 1981 John Deer Snowmobile
> 197? Massey Ferguson Snowmobile
> 1969 Olds Cutlass "S"
> _________________________________________________________
> DO YOU YAHOO!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:32:35 -0700
From: "Igor T. '81 DRB 455" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Re: PISTON FILLING

>This could be done by welding.


I was thinking that there would be a problem with the piston bonding with
the new material.  You say welding.  Maybe one could weld it on and then
machine the top of piston (lightly).

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:36:43 -0500
From: "Semantana Chris (ONEX)" <SemantanaC@tce.com>
Subject: RE: Pre-Paint Metal Treatment

> I would sandblast to remove loose scale and paint with POR-15. They claim
> that it is not necessary or desireable to remove all rust down to bare
> 
Ditto.  I did just this for the frame of my 66 GTO in Sept.  And I've
already had several comments from the pictures I took of how good it looks
and what I used to spray the frame.  Then I tell people, I brushed on POR-15
followed by Eastwood chassis black in spray cans.  Only thing is I've still
got sand coming out of the frame cavities on occasion.  Nothing bad though,
it's just a pain in the butt when I'm trying to keep the garage floor clean
(at least somewhat) and all of a sudden theres a pile of sand.
Resto-Motive Labs also carries a metal prep product if you are painting
POR-15 over bare metal.

Chris Smetana
Terre Haute, IN
http://www.abcs.com/chris

1969 W-31
1969 4-4-2 parts car
plus others

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:21:10 EST
From: W30442CS@aol.com
Subject: Re: GJC

In a message dated 98-12-16 10:08:22 EST, you write:

>
>That was beautiful man.  Now if only I can get my girlfriend to understand it
>that way.
>									Rich
>
>

hey rich, did you try explaining to her what the value of a new car verses a
muscle car will be in about 4 yrs.?  its amazeing how much it cost for new car
tags , and how much their value drops with every year.  seems like by the time
you get them paid for there junk any ways!     i all ways liked the idea of
driveing some thing differant, some thing special!     steven,
w30442cs@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:33:27 -0500
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: cutlass supreme engine offset

WRONG!!!!!!!!  Like I said I will post the question and reply in Hot Rod
or Car Craft later today.  (Not trying to Flame.)
_______

Sorry.  I saw the item in question, and all I can say is that Petersen
magazines will _never_ be expert sources for Oldsmobile info.  The response
they printed said something to the effect that 442 converts did not have
the offset, but Supreme converts did.  The problem with this is that _ALL_
70-72 Olds A-body converts (442s included) were Supreme based.  At that
point I discounted the information.  Don't believe everything you read -
including stuff I sometimes write!  ;-)

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:34:41 EST
From: Onebil2mny@aol.com
Subject: Re: Olds and F-Bodies

In a message dated 12/15/1998 10:51:11 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Gutlass66@aol.com writes:

<< I am getting my uncles 1979 Camaro,
 putting an Olds 350/350 combo, >>

Why not a 79-81 Firebird....  the nose actually looks a little Olds like, and
they even came with Olds power.   Maybe do a Hide-A-Way headlight conversion
on one of the fiberglass noses available and.....   

Just my .02
Bill K

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:41:24 -0500
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: PISTON FILLING

>This could be done by welding.


I was thinking that there would be a problem with the piston bonding with
the new material.  You say welding.  Maybe one could weld it on and then
machine the top of piston (lightly).
_________

Uh, sorry guys, but while you can do this, the real question is Why?
You've now got a heavier piston, with questionable adhesion between this
"patch" and the original material (wanna think about what happens when it
comes loose at five grand?), and you've got to go through and rebalance
everything.  More importantly, if you're going through the trouble to get
flattop pistons, it's likely a hi-perf motor which wants forged pistons -
your patch won't be, and in fact, any welding will weaken the properties of
the base metal of the piston.  Just get custom flattops (Arias et al).

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 08:46:55 PST
From: "jason shreve" <jasonshreve@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Olds and F-Bodies

This is only a rumor.  Probably a scare tactic to increase Z28/ T/A 
sales.

>Cancelling the F-body after the '99 model year after all -- a 
Ponchrolet product only.


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:37:31 EST
From: Onebil2mny@aol.com
Subject: Re: Olds and F-Bodies

In a message dated 12/16/1998 9:04:56 AM Eastern Standard Time,
tchurchill@draper.com writes:

<< Alas, it was, is, and will remain -- I just read how GM isn't going to can
 the F-body after the '99 model year after all -- a Ponchrolet product only.
>>


Big Silly Rumor....   The F ain't gonna get canceled.  

Bill K    

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:50:48 EST
From: RICH6986@aol.com
Subject: Re: GJC

I tried that to she just doesnt understand.  She wants me to buy the 99 alero.
She says she likes that car.  So I told her i would buy it in about 25 years
when its a classic, she didnt like that to much.  Oh well you cant make
everyone happy.
										
Happy Holidays and Happy Oldsmobiling
													
Rich					
82 cutlass supreme
85 cutlass supreme (now parts car)     :-(		

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:20:08 -0600 (CST)
From: hitson@i1.net (roger hitson)
Subject: don't believe (was offset)

>.  Don't believe everything you read -
>including stuff I sometimes write!  ;-)
>
>Joe Padavano
>padavano.joe@orbital.com
>
>(list of cool cars snipped)

Oh God, what  am I gonna do for information now?

roger hitson

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 12:13:48 -0500
From: "Semantana Chris (ONEX)" <SemantanaC@tce.com>
Subject: RE: don't believe (was offset)

> >.  Don't believe everything you read -
> >including stuff I sometimes write!  ;-)
> >
> >Joe Padavano
> >padavano.joe@orbital.com
> >
> >(list of cool cars snipped)
> 
> Oh God, what  am I gonna do for information now?
> 
He did say sometimes.  I suppose if we found Joe that 69 double hump hood,
he would lead us straight :)

Chris

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 12:45:30 EST
From: KASOLDS@aol.com
Subject: Re: appraisals

	I took my car (70 442) to a local shop that works on lots of collector 
cars
for an appraisal.  They appraised it at $7500 which is a fair appraisal.  Then
I talked to my Allstate agent, and she insured the car for full coverage up to
$7500.  I made sure that my insurance agent has a copy of the appraisal and a
few pictures of my car in their file.  I pay about $270 for six months of
coverage (with the car listed as an occasional driver), and when the car is in
storage I pay about $10 a month for comprehensive.  To me this seems like a
pretty good deal considering that I am a 21 year old male.
	I hope this helps.  The best thing I can tell you is go to an agent 
you know
and trust.

Keith

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:59:57 -0600 (CST)
From: George <cutlass@one.camd.lsu.edu>
Subject: Headers repros (Was 442 convert?)

Joe, 

This is only a guess: Maybe because conv. normally need heaeers later 
then coupes? (Driven less and in better weather and nice weather areas?) 
Regulary Conv. don't sit outside like the 442 Jason wrote about, even my 
wreck has decent headers...

And the question is: Would a new set of headers be below 300 bucks 
retail? 

Regards, George

- --------------------------------------------------------------
'68 Cuttlass S Conv. 
http://estimator.camd.lsu.edu/georg/sparetime/olds.html
- --------------------------------------------------------------

On Wed, 16 Dec 1998 Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM wrote:

> The header panel is very rusted...
> ________
> 
> Hey, Greg Rollin, Steve Kinney, et al.  How come nobody repros convertible
> header bows for A-bodies?  It seems to me that with four divisions' worth
> of A-body converts out there, there has to be a market for this.  Heck,
> they repro the 67-69 F-body header bows, and I would think there are fewer
> of these cars out there that A-bodies.  _Used_ header bows run in the $300
> to $450 range (which I find outragous).  This sure sounds like a market
> waiting to be tapped.
> 
> Joe Padavano
> padavano.joe@orbital.com
> 
> 66 442
> 68 W-30
> 69 H/O
> 69 442
> 70 W-30
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:14:35 -0500
From: Gene Gilpin <ggilpin@wrallp.com>
Subject: Re: Olds in Movies

At 11:17 AM 12/15/98 -0600, you wrote:
>DOE!!!! your probably right he did say turbojet 390 horse didnt he?   oops..
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Brian Ammons <b_ammons@mail.utexas.edu>
>To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
>Date: Tuesday, December 15, 1998 2:56 AM
>Subject: Re: Olds in Movies
>
>
>>At 02:36 PM 12/12/98 , you wrote:
>>>well you are off by a year on the judge its a 70
>>>396 was right

- -------------------------------------------------

Ok Here it is for all those that care. I set down last night with a spiked
beverage and with pen and pad in hand I hit the play button on Dazed and
Confused.
In order: (I didn't get "every" one but...):
'69 C10 Chevy Shortbed - black
'72 Malibu - brown/white stripes/top
'66 Mustang Conv. - red
'57 Plymouth 4dr - forgot to write down color
'76 Roadrunner - red
'56 Chevy stepside - lt green
'74 Ford bronco - teal/blue
'71 AMC Gremlin - yellow
'75 Buick Century - brown
'72 Ford pickup - green
'73 Duster - primer grey
'74 GMC pickup - blue
'64 Chevy pickup - Dk blue
'6? Buick conv - white
'72 Ford truck - yellow/white
'6? Buick 4dr wildcat?? - white
'7? VW bug - white
'73 Pontiac T/A - red
'75 El Camino - black/silver
'71 Camaro - blue
'54 Chevy truck - yellow
'69 Ford truck - green
'72 Cadillac 4dr hdtp - black
'74 Cadillac Eldorado - color??
'70 GTO Judge - orange/black top
'72 Vette - White
'67 Plymouth GTX - blue
'67 Plymouth Fury - blue
'70 Chevelle SS454 LS5 - black/white stripes .. YES fellows 454
    4.11 posi out back
    750 double pumper
    Edelbrock intake
    Turbo Jet
    390 horsepower
    "We're talkin some f*cken' muscle here"
'68 Firebird 400 - red
'68 Ford Torino - color ?
'7? VW bug conv - white
'70 Buick Skylark - brown
'7? VW Bus - color ?
'7? VW Thing - grey
'71 Ford Maverick Grabber - red
'6? Corvair - white
'6? Corvair - gold
'71 AMC Ambassador - grey
'74 Malibu - brown
'3? Chevy street rod - yellow
'7? VW Thing - green
'71 Pontiac T/A - white
'60 Chrysler - dk brown
'3? street rod - red
'71 Olds Cutlass - brown
'70 Impala - tan
'69 Buick GS conv. - red
'72 Cutlass Supreme - gray
'57 Chevy - blue
'74 Camaro - primer
'74 Chevy pickup - red/white
'70 Mustang - red
'69 GTO - black
'63 Grand Prix 421 - lt blue ? or steel grey ?
'71 Olds Cutlass - lt blue
'74 Merc Couger - color ??
'69 Mustang - red

That's most of 'em 
I recommend this movie. It'll take you back. Bring wobbly pops and you'll
watch it twice.

By the way, for those who asked, I'll get the info on that '68 442 TC
tonight. I talked to the guys wife last night and it's still available.

later all

Ed 
The Omega Man

'74 Omega 455

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:12:03 -0500
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: RE: don't believe (was offset)

He did say sometimes.  I suppose if we found Joe that 69 double hump hood,
he would lead us straight :)

Chris
________

How's that go?  "I made a mistake once...I thought I was wrong"  ;-)

Actually, I was thinking more of the (mumble, mumble) 66 Supreme fiasco of
a few months ago...

To be honest, I don't have proof that the motors in Supremes _aren't_
offset, but without proof that they are, I remain skeptical.  It just
doesn't make sense.  Hot Chevy and Camaro Craft have a long history of Olds
disinformation, and we won't go into the documented errors in Mondello's
tech manual (and before we start another flame war, I will be the first to
say that he's probably the foremost expert in the country, but even Joe M
makes mistakes).

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:26:52 -0500
From: "Jeff Meier" <heffmeier@email.msn.com>
Subject: 1961 Oldsmobile Limousine

I have just acquired a 1961 Oldsmobile Limousine in very good condition and
am looking for any information which may help me determine the value.
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
email to: heffmeier@msn.com
Thank-You

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:24:12 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: PISTON FILLING

I don't know how this would work in practice, but on this topic, I was
reading the other night about the development of the original Buick V-8
(the nailhead) and how the designers came up with the combustion chamber
shape on that design. One of the things that led to them doing what they
did was their discovery of a Buick dealer mechanic who raised the
compression ratio of one of the old straight eights by welding what they
called slugs to the piston tops. This changed not only the compression but
the shape of the combustion chember and let them experiment with different
flame patterns, etc. So it is possible, though there might be some other
issues resulting from it.

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:19:01 EST
From: SpeedCom@aol.com
Subject: Re: PISTON FILLING

In a message dated 12/16/98
 10:<BR47:<BR25 AM Central Standard T, Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM writes:> Uh,
sorry guys, but while you can do this, the real question is Why?
>  You've now got a heavier piston, with questionable adhesion between this
>  "patch" and the original material (wanna think about what happens when it
>  comes loose at five grand?), and you've got to go through and rebalance
>  everything.  More importantly, if you're going through the trouble to get
>  flattop pistons, it's likely a hi-perf motor which wants forged pistons -
>  your patch won't be, and in fact, any welding will weaken the properties of
>  the base metal of the piston.  Just get custom flattops (Arias et al).


Joe,

all those fighter aircraft designers are going to be surprised when they learn
about the inferiority of welding <VBG> I don't believe that  a proper weld is
going to come loose...it will be *part of* the base metal. There are other
problems to be looked into, such as heat dissipation while welding.

Of course forged flat tops are best. I was just suggesting "another approach".

Cheers/Carron

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:24:16 EST
From: AGUY4RUMLI@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: 700R4 tranny w/not shift (Non Olds)

In a message dated 12/16/98, 5:27:29 AM, oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca writes:
<<NO!!  The only turbo t/a are the pace car t/a's and possible the 
anniversary (late 80's not 79).  A GTA is similar to an IROC.  Top of 
the Line.>>
Can we get back to the main reason why i posted this message. Does anyone know
why this POS will not shift to 3rd on WOT. I had a mustang pull on me after i
beat his pants off 1st & 2nd gear. And needless to say i was upset.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 12:30:04 -0600
From: Eric <big_olds@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: PF-31 Oil Filters

What's different about them??

I know there's a PH-6 or 11??  That fits an Olds, but is a lot longer,a
nd hodls more oil, perhaps it's the same??

One thing I found out, most filters have a letter stamped by the thread
to indicate the thread size, from there eyeball the gasket diameter, and
you can find a fitting replacement.....

Eric
http://www.dlcwest.com/~jed/


Dave Rench wrote:
> 
> I was curious to see what the list had to say about these.  As someone
> mentioned they are out of production.  Several years ago my father heard
> that they had stopped production and went on a mission to buy every filter
> he could find (He has a 65 4-4-2 Convertible with a 68 H-O 455) to ensure a
> supply for himself and my brother and I (72 4-42 and 70 W-31 respectively).

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:42:35 EST
From: KarlAune@aol.com
Subject: Re: UNBOUNCE: Translator Needed

Please forgive lack of snip....

<< I'll try...
 
 Prezados gentlemen. They forgive me for sending this in Portuguese language.
I
 possess a Oldsmobile 88 Station Wagon " Custom Cruiser " 1972, V-8 455. Here
 in Brazil she is very difficult to keep it therefore, beyond the difficulty
 with the importations and, for tartar itself of an old vehicle, the proper
 importers in do not supply catalogues to them of parts spare. I acquired this
 vehicle in 02/08/82 and I have true passion for it. I always looked for to
 keep twirling it, with original parts. Pra if to have an idea of the found
 difficulties, this carriage used tires L 78-15 BFGoodrich. With very cost, I
 obtained to acquire the tires P-76 HR 78-15 FB SC Pirelli, manufactured here
 exactly in Brazil for exportation. It occurs that already it has 10 long
years
 I try to buy them and the Pirelli informs that does not manufacture them
more.
 Thus, not only with the tires, I have found difficulties to acquire a new
 Carburetor Rochester 4-Jet, therefore the importer informs that they do not
 manufacture them more, as well as others some item, as the electric dumping
 back glass. 
 
 Dick Compton >>

<<Pra if to have an idea of the found difficulties, >>

Well it seems he is citing some difficulties in locating parts, particularly
tires?
Something about the Pirelli Tires..
He wants a new (rebuilt?) Q-Jet, and some parts for the rear gate window on
the Custom Cruiser.

The carb part ain't hard, anyone with VC/CC info wanna try to reply?

Assume he (or someone close to him) can understand Spanish.
Mebbe....

SOM

&KA

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:44:00 -0500
From: tchurchill@draper.com (Timothy A. Churchill)
Subject: Re: Olds and F-Bodies

So, I Sez:
                                                             vvvvv
> << Alas, it was, is, and will remain -- I just read how GM isn't going to can
>  the F-body after the '99 model year after all -- a Ponchrolet product only.
> >>

To Which Jason S. Responds:


> This is only a rumor.  Probably a scare tactic to increase Z28/ T/A 
> sales.

...and Bill K Addz:

> Big Silly Rumor....   The F ain't gonna get canceled.  

If y'all re-read what I said, you'll see that I agree with you too.
Or, you're agreeing with me.  Or something.

BTW, my source for the info was the Jan. '99 Car & Driver.

Tim Churchill  tchurchill@draper.com  OCA #30327  Framingham, MA
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, new a.k.a 'Old Gold'
'98 VW Passat GLS Wagon, a.k.a. 'der Kinderwagen'

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:21:54 EST
From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Subject: Re: cutlass supreme engine offset

In a message dated 98-12-16 12:33:15 EST, you write:

<< WRONG!!!!!!!!  Like I said I will post the question and reply in Hot Rod 
 or Car Craft later today.  (Not trying to Flame.)
 
 
 > >>
Back to you Bub, Wrong!!!!  I race Oldsmobiles, I have done countless
transplants including several cars on the Street Rocket Web Page,  The Frame
Mounts are not, I repeat no offset.  If you want, I can even post a pic
showing Frame Mounts with the W43 hemi hooked to them.  The W43 Hemi is a 455
block with the hemi heads.

Also look at your Oldsmobile Assembly Manual.  

W MACHINES

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:04:48 -0600
From: Eric <big_olds@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: PF-31 Oil Filters

What's different about them??

I know there's a PH-6 or 11??  That fits an Olds, but is a lot longer,a
nd hodls more oil, perhaps it's the same??

One thing I found out, most filters have a letter stamped by the thread
to indicate the thread size, from there eyeball the gasket diameter, and
you can find a fitting replacement.....

Eric
http://www.dlcwest.com/~jed/


Dave Rench wrote:
> 
> I was curious to see what the list had to say about these.  As someone
> mentioned they are out of production.  Several years ago my father heard
> that they had stopped production and went on a mission to buy every filter
> he could find (He has a 65 4-4-2 Convertible with a 68 H-O 455) to ensure a
> supply for himself and my brother and I (72 4-42 and 70 W-31 respectively).

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:26:11 -0500
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Shelby Series I

Received an interesting item in the mail at work.  I'm on the mailing list
for a company called M.C. Gill, who manufactures aluminum honeycomb panels,
primarily for aerospace applications (their major market is flooring used
in commercial jetliners).  We use panels like this for structural members
in our satellites.  Every few months they send out a newsletter, which I
usually skim and discard.  Today I opened the envelope to find the Shelby
Series I on the cover of the newsletter.  It turns out that M.C. Gill
supplies eight honeycomb structural panels for the Series I, the seatbacks,
front rockers, side rockers, and floor panels.  These panels consist of
thin aluminum sheets bonded to either side of an aluminum honeycomb core
and then routed to finished shape.  The core ranges from 1 1/2" to 3"
thick, and the panels range from 10" x 14" to 32" x 82" for each of the
floor panels.  Shelby had originally planned to use graphite/epoxy panels,
but, according to the article, "Shelby engineers were concerned that the
carbon facings of the original panels would not have the durability
required to withstand road debris...".

The car definitely looks better in colors other than the original silver
with orange stripes; in fact, I personally don't think the stripes add
anything to the car.  While I hated it at first, the styling is starting to
grow on me.  The taillights definitely have to go, however.  Quarter mile
time and speed are listed as 12.8@109.9 mph (not bad for an Aurora motor
which is smog legal), and list price is quoted at $106,975.  Operators are
standing by to take your call.

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:34:51 -0500
From: Gene Gilpin <ggilpin@wrallp.com>
Subject: dazed and confused

 I'm not sure if this went the first time. I didn't get it back.
so here 'tis
>>



DOE!!!! your probably right he did say turbojet 390 horse didnt he?   oops..
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Brian Ammons <b_ammons@mail.utexas.edu>
>To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
>Date: Tuesday, December 15, 1998 2:56 AM
>Subject: Re: Olds in Movies
>
>
>>At 02:36 PM 12/12/98 , you wrote:
>>>well you are off by a year on the judge its a 70
>>>396 was right

- -------------------------------------------------

Ok Here it is for all those that care. I set down last night with a spiked
beverage and with pen and pad in hand I hit the play button on Dazed and
Confused.
In order: (I didn't get "every" one but...):
'69 C10 Chevy Shortbed - black
'72 Malibu - brown/white stripes/top
'66 Mustang Conv. - red
'57 Plymouth 4dr - forgot to write down color
'76 Roadrunner - red
'56 Chevy stepside - lt green
'74 Ford bronco - teal/blue
'71 AMC Gremlin - yellow
'75 Buick Century - brown
'72 Ford pickup - green
'73 Duster - primer grey
'74 GMC pickup - blue
'64 Chevy pickup - Dk blue
'6? Buick conv - white
'72 Ford truck - yellow/white
'6? Buick 4dr wildcat?? - white
'7? VW bug - white
'73 Pontiac T/A - red
'75 El Camino - black/silver
'71 Camaro - blue
'54 Chevy truck - yellow
'69 Ford truck - green
'72 Cadillac 4dr hdtp - black
'74 Cadillac Eldorado - color??
'70 GTO Judge - orange/black top
'72 Vette - White
'67 Plymouth GTX - blue
'67 Plymouth Fury - blue
'70 Chevelle SS454 LS5 - black/white stripes .. YES fellows 454
    4.11 posi out back
    750 double pumper
    Edelbrock intake
    Turbo Jet
    390 horsepower
    "We're talkin some f*cken' muscle here"
'68 Firebird 400 - red
'68 Ford Torino - color ?
'7? VW bug conv - white
'70 Buick Skylark - brown
'7? VW Bus - color ?
'7? VW Thing - grey
'71 Ford Maverick Grabber - red
'6? Corvair - white
'6? Corvair - gold
'71 AMC Ambassador - grey
'74 Malibu - brown
'3? Chevy street rod - yellow
'7? VW Thing - green
'71 Pontiac T/A - white
'60 Chrysler - dk brown
'3? street rod - red
'71 Olds Cutlass - brown
'70 Impala - tan
'69 Buick GS conv. - red
'72 Cutlass Supreme - gray
'57 Chevy - blue
'74 Camaro - primer
'74 Chevy pickup - red/white
'70 Mustang - red
'69 GTO - black
'63 Grand Prix 421 - lt blue ? or steel grey ?
'71 Olds Cutlass - lt blue
'74 Merc Couger - color ??
'69 Mustang - red

That's most of 'em 
I recommend this movie. It'll take you back. Bring wobbly pops and you'll
watch it twice.

By the way, for those who asked, I'll get the info on that '68 442 TC
tonight. I talked to the guys wife last night and it's still available.

later all

Ed 
The Omega Man

'74 Omega 455

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:35:32 -0500
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: cutlass supreme engine offset (correction)

See, I _told_ you not to believe everything I wrote.

Previously I mentioned the Hot Rod/Car Craft item about engine offset in
the Olds A-body cars.  Now I remember the exact quote that told me they
didn't know what they were talking about.  The response to the tech
question had indicated that engines were offset in Cutlass Supreme and
Cutlass S models, but not in 442s in the 1970-1972 model years.  Here's the
problem with this statement:  the Cutlass S and 442 are _EXACTLY_ the same
body, with _EXACTLY_ the same engine placement.  In fact, in 1972, when the
442 was demoted back to an option package, the Cutlass S _WAS_ the 442.
Both the Cutlass S and the 442 use the "77" Sport Coupe and "87" Holiday
Coupe body styles.  Frames, motor mounts, crossmembers, etc, etc. are
_IDENTICAL_ between these two.  Basically, Petersen Publishing doesn't know
what the heck they're talking about.  And yes, I _have_ put big tube
headers in a big block 71 Cutlass S with no problems, as well as in a 72
Cutlass S-based 442 with a 350.  (Just please don't tell anyone I once
owned a car with a small block, OK?)

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:05:41 -0500
From: "Thomas P. Smith" <smithtp@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: More Q-Jet hints: Idle Problems

Afternoon All:

After putting on my Q-Jet~again~ I still couldn't get a decent idle.  If
it was up to temp, I could get it to hold an idle, but not unless I had
my mixture screws out at least 4 turns.  Even then, it just wasn't quite
right, and I'd have a bit of a gas smell. So...off it came again.  The
problem turned out to be excessive carbon buildup in the PCV port on the
carb.  It was a bit deceiving because if you just glanced at the
opening, it looked okay.  But, the blockage tapered in as it went
further into the port, until the opening was restricted to about 1/8
inch.  I must say, I was more than a bit embarrassed at myself for
overlooking this.  During my rebuild I spent a great deal of time
ensuring the most minute passageways were clean and clear, but plain
overlooked this huge 3/8 inch port.  Also, the crud was so hard that a
couple hours soaking in carb cleaner wasn't sufficient to clean it out.
I had to work at it. However, after completely cleaning up the port, the
carb now idles fine because now my PCV system works.  My Q-Jet saga may
be just about over.  I hope this humbling public confession proves
useful to someone.

Moral of the story?  Don't overlook the obvious.

- --
Thomas P. Smith
1971 Cutlass S 350
smithtp@ix.netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:24:53 EST
From: LooseCanno@aol.com
Subject: Re: Headers repros (Was 442 convert?)

Aren't we talking about the front bow of the convertible top, and not exhaust
headers?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:31:08 -0500
From: "Ken" <olds442@en.com>
Subject: Re: Hooker 3202 headers

I bought my 1 7/8" Hookers from Summit Racing.  I was amazed at how easy the
went in.  They literally fell into place.   Corse this was in a 78 455
Cutlass.



>Joe Mondello convinced me to purchase his Hooker 3202 headers (1 7/8" tubes
into 3
>1/2" collectors) for the 455 I'm having built to replace my existing 350 in
a '72
>Cutlass Supreme.  In your experience, are these headers going to fit with
relative
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:23 
From: "John Carri" <jcarri@alesis1.usa.com>
Subject: re: engine offset 

Hi all,
       It appears I stirred up a hornets nest with the engine offset 
question. (the hypothetical offset is indeed to the RIGHT, not left, I 
was mistakenly thinking of the view standing in front of the car).  
Yes, my source for the information was that "Car Craft" or maybe "Hot 
Rod" tech question. 

     We've now heard from some folks who swear the offset is real and 
they've had to deal with it, and from others who swear they've seen no 
offset whatsoever in cars they have worked on.  Could it be that they 
are both right?  Someone referred to the fact that convertibles 
supposedly were tougher to put headers into. My '72 Supreme (which I 
*think* does have an offset engine based on the very tight clearance 
around #8 sparkplug - by the way I'm the second owner and the first 
owner put only 43,000 gentle miles on the car, no evidence of the 
engine having moved due to the car  being bashed on obstacles or 
anything like that) has the same body shape around the rear quarters 
and trunk lid as the '72 convertible, which I guess makes mine the 
2-door hardtop body style. Could it be that 2-door coupe's and 2-door 
hardtops are different? 

    The suggestion about finding part numbers for the engine mount 
brackets, etc, should clear this up. Any update?

   Thanks to all those who gave me answers to my questions, by the 
way!

- -John Carri

'72 Cutlass Supreme
'73 Plymouth Roadrunner

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:44:06 -0500
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: PISTON FILLING

all those fighter aircraft designers are going to be surprised when they
learn
about the inferiority of welding <VBG> I don't believe that  a proper weld
is
going to come loose...it will be *part of* the base metal. There are other
problems to be looked into, such as heat dissipation while welding.
___________

No argument here, we weld aerospace hardware.  We spend a lot of money
carefully controlling the weld (many sample parts are welded then cut up
and inspected or tested to structural failure before the actual flight
parts are welded) then performing non-destructive testing (xray or
ultrasonic) to verify a good weld.  Note that not all aluminum alloys are
weldable (in particular, most high-strength alloys are _not_ weldable) -
I'm not sure what the pistons in question are made of.  Note also that
you'll only have a weld around the perimeter of the plug, with a big gap
underneath that you won't be able to weld.  Finally, you'll still have a
heat-effected zone around the weld; in aerospace use we use a big knockdown
factor on the structural allowables here, or we totally anneal the part
then re-heat treat it.  Oh, and expect to get some dimensional heat
distortion in the part, which will require remachining (we usually rough
machine the part, weld, then final machine.  The bottom line is that to do
this right, you'll spend tons more than you will just buying the right
pistons to start with - we only use welding as a last resort or on
non-critical part.

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:48 
From: "John Carri" <jcarri@alesis1.usa.com>
Subject: cutlass front coil spring replacement

Hi all,
       The factory manual for my '72 Cutlass Supreme says I have to 
disassemble the front suspension - separate the lower control arms 
from the spindles - to replace the front coil springs (I'm putting in 
Hotchkiss springs).  Is this the only way?  There doesn't seem to be 
much clearance for the usual spring compressor, but perhaps mine is 
too big or something.

    BTW, I replaced the rear coil springs with Hotchkiss ones, and 
installed KYB gas-a-just shocks all around, and am quite pleased with 
the improvement. The car is much more willing to make lane changes on 
the freeway now. I worried about oversteer from increasing the rear 
roll couple due to the stiffer rear springs without a corresponding 
increase in the front roll couple since I haven't yet replaced the 
front springs, but no such problem. There was a LOT of understeer in 
stock form and my car still understeers even with the stiffer rear 
springs. Once I get the front springs in I'll start saving for 
Hotchkiss sway-bars. Eventually I hope to redo the suspension with 
poly bushings. Maybe I can get a little closer to neutral steer...

- -John Carri

'72 Cutlass Supreme
'73 Plymouth Roadrunner

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:36:54 -0600
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Emissions

All, 
Live in Illinois, testing in some areas, but not all, we're being included
in Jan, 99. Any tricks out there? Heard buy gas with 10% alky, also have
some stuff at the parts house says, "Add this and guaranteed to pass", cars
all should be in good shape, but with politics who knows. Can't get coll.
plates for the 75 till next year. Any suggestions???
Lou Biggs
lbiggs@intertek.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:53:02 -0600
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: AM Radio is killing me! WTB '76 AM/FM Cassette!

Charles, 
Have a good radio man, bought one from him, am/fm/cassette, put Ford
station wagon knobs on it, they have wood grain on them like the dash. Not
orig. but close, hard to spot. Car isn't here, don't remember what brand
but, kicks butt without power boosters. Need ( old thread here) package
shelf with weave, speakers mount below, Greg may have them, need them for
sure. Can't stand to listen to talk radio anymore, cassette has "Eagles,
till hell freezes over" cued up to "Hotel Calif", if your gonna ride, ride!
The 75 could win a show without the radio, have to live, it still looks
good.
Lou Biggs
lbiggs@intertek.net
PS If you want the brand I'll uncover it and find out, it's very close.
PPS Anyone want a new 75 AM radio, cheap 
- ----------
> From: Charles A. Dempsey <cdemps@lsumc.edu>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: AM Radio is killing me! WTB '76 AM/FM Cassette!
> Date: Wednesday, December 16, 1998 2:37 AM
> 
> Hi Folks,
> 
> My '76 CS has the AM *only* radio. There's not squat on AM radio these
> days.
> 
> I would like to find an original Delco AM/FM Stereo Cassette for my '76.
> I'm going to change the speakers too. If you have a nice original Olds
> or GM AM/FM cassette (and/or speakers) that you have tested and found to
> be in good working order and would like to sell, please e-mail directly.
> No need for this traffic on the list.
> 
> I will also consider an AM/FM Stereo only unit.
> 
> I don't want an aftermarket radio, but will consider trading one of the
> many I've got for your original unit.
> 
> Please include all knobs, connectors, brackets and widgets that may be
> required.
> 
> I've looked in the junk yards, but what I found was mostly junk.
> 
> Thanks,
> Charles

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:55:10 -0600
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: CC-IROC's visitors

Gary,
Really!
Lou Biggs
lbiggs@intertek.net
- ----------
> From: Oldsmagnet <buehner@lyrea.com>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: CC-IROC's visitors

> Hmm...  Wonder how long my "Reload" button will take to wear out....  ;)
> 
> Hey Gary, not to bi$@h or anything, but how's about sticking a subject
heading
> in there?  T'anks :)
> 
> Oldsmagnet - Charley Buehner @ Sidney Montana |\      |-------|   
> mailto:buehner@lyrea.com To mail direct to me |/\|=|  |   |   |

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:58:35 -0600
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: cutlass supreme engine offset

All, 
My 67 442, 400 and 75 supreme, 350 are not offset, all I know.
Lou Biggs
lbiggs@intertek.net
- ----------
> From: Padavano.Joe@orbital.com
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: cutlass supreme engine offset
> Sorry.  I saw the item in question, and all I can say is that Petersen
> magazines will _never_ be expert sources for Oldsmobile info.  The
response
> they printed said something to the effect that 442 converts did not have
> the offset, but Supreme converts did.  The problem with this is that
_ALL_
> 70-72 Olds A-body converts (442s included) were Supreme based.  At that
> point I discounted the information.  Don't believe everything you read -
> including stuff I sometimes write!  ;-)
> 
> Joe Padavano
> padavano.joe@orbital.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:03:46 -0600
From: David Brown <dbrown@mh1.mcis.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Re: Timing Chain replacement

A response. Cool!

> Performer RPM Camshaft/Lifters/Lube Package #7112* 
> Use Edelbrock #7813 timing set. DO NOT use stock timing set. 
Thanks for the info. I guess the key word here is STOCK. Since the 350 was
last produced 18 years ago, 307 8 years ago, and 455 22 years ago, Edel
most likely wants to dispell any idea of reusing the timing chain that is
currently on the engine, so their package can make the most power possible,
and so you are not disappointed with the results. That chain might be the
stock, factory setup or a link style replacement, but most likely it has
over 75,000 miles on it, and is stretched. Replacement of the STOCK timing
set is a good policy.

> ...I cut and pasted this directly from the Edelbrock webpage...It states in a
> very general term NOT to use a stock timing chain on a performance cam. In 
the
> installation manual that came with this camshaft, it states that the factory
> timing chain *may* be machined in a retarded or advanced setting from the
> factory. In order to obtain maximum performance , Edelbrock reccomends that
> it's camshafts be installed "straight up". In order to insure that it's cams
> are indeed installed sraightup...it reccommends NOT using a factory chain. 
How is a timing chain machined, I thought is was an assembly of stamped
steel and formed pieces, or did you mean crank gear? And how is a timing
chain machined in a retarded or advanced setting? Obviously the Edlebrock
docs are referring to the crank gear. Timing chain sets are available with
crank gears having straight up (0 degree) keyways, and some have additional
advance and retard keyways.

And obviously the Edlebrock docs are referring to the stock, installed at
the factory, engine unfired, timing chain sets. Yeah, you wouldn't want to
use it considering you just spent how much money on Edle components, and a
timing chain replacement is probably the cheapest way to get back some
performance from the engine. Straight up means at the 0 degree setting for
the cam and crank gears. I'd say any mass produced Olds timing chain set
for '64-90 V-8s, excluding the 394, has a 0 or straight up setting that
duplicates the factory 0 or straight up setting. There are retard and
advance keyways and adaptors, but straight up (0) is straight up.

Unless it's a JM, DM or DS specialty item, I'll bet straight up is straight
up on every Olds timing chain set. That would be the crank gear keyway at
approximately 25-30 degrees to the right, with the straight up dot at 12
o'clock, and the cam gear with dowel pin hole at 12 o'clock and cam
straight up dot at 6 o'clock. Anyone out there with something different
that was mass produced? Let me know.

>    I am not misinforming the list, in fact I am passing along the findings of
> a well respected companies findings. YOU are misinforming the list by stating
> what you have found to be the "gospel" in everyones case! In fact, you are
> lucky! You obviously have replaced a chain that was machined for a camshaft
> that was to be installed straightup without doing any research beforehand! 
I guess I'm a lucky boy! How does that saying go, "the best laid plans . .
." Research would come from reading the JM, DS, Crower, Comp Cams,
Edelbrock, and the rest of a shelf full of auto aftermarket catalogs and
books cover to cover, and numerous Olds chassis manuals, and most
importantly, having been on the Olds list for quite a while, and having
read the experiences and wisdom of Chris, Bob, Joe and a slew of others.

>    If you read my post acurately, which obviously you didn't, you would have
> read where I stated that "you may have a factory retarded cam and need to
> replce the chain with a factory replacement for that specific engine" , I
> didn't say ALL factory cams are ground for retarded chain settings!....
I believe the specific reference to the Edlebrock page or info should have
been included with the original post. Replying to my direct e-mail would
have been nice too.

List or newsgroup e-mail is different from having a conversation with a
group of people. In a conversation, you can build up to the specifics,
having the group ask for details along the way, which keeps the group
interested and participating. However, people join or drop off from a mail
list at anytime during a discussion, so it's important to state as much as
you know, or at least offer to post more details.

>    Collyn Eastham
>    65 442
>    65 Cutlass
> 
>    P.S.   DONT BE A "RICHARD CRANIUM"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks for the warning and your example!

- -- 
David Brown  dbrown@mh1.mcis.uchicago.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:00:19 -0500
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: re: engine offset

has the same body shape around the rear quarters
and trunk lid as the '72 convertible, which I guess makes mine the
2-door hardtop body style. Could it be that 2-door coupe's and 2-door
hardtops are different?
_____________

Not quite.  In the 70-72 model years, Olds used the following 2-door A-body
styles, all with 112" wheelbase:

57 - This is the two door notchback used on the Cutlass Supreme and 72 H/O.
67 - The convertible, based on the Supreme notchback body.  Used for all
70-72 converts; Supreme, 442, and H/O.
77 - The Sport Coupe (aka, the dreaded "post" cars), used on the F-85,
Cutlass, Cutlass S, and 442s
87 - The Holiday Coupe (sans "post"), used on Cutlass, Cutlass S, and 442s

Note that the body style numbers are the ones that appear in the VIN (well,
except that the two-place number was replaced with a single letter code in
72 to make room for the engine designator...) and on the body data plate.
Note also that except for the convertibles, all use the same frame, and as
far as I can tell, the same motor mount brackets, crossmember, etc.  I'm
still waiting to have someone tell me the differences.  Yes, the
convertible does use a different frame, but most of those differences are
aft of the firewall and thus shouldn't affect the headers.  Again, if the
engine were offset to the right, the transmission crossmember would also
need to be offset or else the engine/trans combo would not be parallel to
the centerline of the car (which would cause problems with u-joint
vibration eventually).  By the way, the convertible engines can't be
offset, because the converts use the same tranny crossmember as the wagons
(which also have boxed frames - and presumably non-offset engines).  Also,
either these "offset" cars would use a different fan shroud, or there would
be an obvious offset of the fan within the shroud.

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:01:39 -0500
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: Headers repros (Was 442 convert?)

Aren't we talking about the front bow of the convertible top, and not
exhaust
headers?
________

In which thread?  I've been talking about both

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:09:20 -0600
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: GJC

Rich, 
Girlfriend heck, explain it to the wife, (who owns 50% of my a*s, according
to state law), I claim insanity, she don't know any better, working so far.
Lou Biggs
lbiggs@intertek.net
- ----------
> From: RICH6986@aol.com
> That was beautiful man.  Now if only I can get my girlfriend to
understand it
> that way.
> 									Rich

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:05:16 -0500
From: David Brode <dbrode@hereintown.net>
Subject: Re:more bench racing[8000rpm 350]

> Mike, and Ken,

Mike,
  I'm not comparing the  Olds heads to stock[even LT-1] sb chev heads. I know 
we hold our own
there. I'm comparing them to some of the better aftermarket sb heads. I 
believe some will flow
260+cfm int/200+ exh. I don't believe the Olds will match those.
 I think that one would have a better high rpm power potential with the "C" 
head on the 350.

 Also - If you used a 455 piston in a 350, the piston would stick out of the 
block. The 350, and
425 have a C.H. of 1.615", while the 455 has a C.H. of 1.740". Maybe you used 
a 425 piston, and
thought it was a 455?

 You could only deck the block to about a "0" to +.005 deck at the most. You 
need around .040
combined quench distance. Aren't most olds gaskets around 40 couple thou?

Dave
See below---

> >but... I have my doubts that even a w-31 head can match the flow of some of
> the>aftermarket SB Ch*vy heads. Hell, i doubt a good "C" or "F" head could
> >match some of the>better aftermarket sb Ch*vy heads.
>
> Fully disagree.  None of the Olds heads would be worth anything without some
> serious work.  My point is that the potential is there.  All the sb ch*by
> heads I've
> seen still run close to the same size ports.  The Olds ports are bigger
> aftermarket
> for the sb ch*by is 2.10/1.625" and those don't even come out of the box
>
> Don't have a tech book in front of me with all the specs but I know that
> when
> my 350 was .030 over and ate a piston I put 455 STD bore pistons in it.
> That
> came out to something like .068 over but the compression hieght matched
> up with the block.  As far as the single plane goes I don't think that would
> matter as much as the carb.  Has anyone put any thought into my idea of 
decking the block past
> the hieght
> of the pistons?  This would give you your highest CR and negate the effect
> of the thick head gaskets (you would take that thickness out of the deck).
>

Ken,
 If Edelbrock has indeed stopped making the Victor intake for the Batten 
heads, i'd say it was
to deter folks from buying the Batten Heads.

Dave
p.s. could you please ask Dave Smith about the high rpm "C" head 350

> From: KS7RACING@aol.com
> Subject: Re: Why no Victor intake for the Battens?
>
> Dave,
>
> I think it was one of those supply-and-demand things, we can't keep up with
> the demand that the C-word engines get.  Having Batten make their own intakes
> would be nice, especially since they know just what the intake needs to
> optimize the benefits of the heads.  The problem I have is I need a 
dual-plane
> design to give me the power down low and in a v-e-r-y wide band, this is what
> it takes to be competitive in SCCA Solo I and II events, where I'd be using
> the first engine to be built with aluminum heads.  When I build a dragger, I
> know I'd have to get one of Dave Smith's custom jobs, scoop or not :-)
>
> Take Care,
> Ken Snyder
> Kansas City, Kansas
> KS7RACING@aol.com
>

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #1670
*********************************

