Please respond to oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
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cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #1617


oldsmobile-digest      Sunday, November 22 1998      Volume 01 : Number 1617



RE: filling heat risers
Re: speedo gear info
Re: Olds Oiling Systems SB
Merry Xmas To Me!
Re: motor check stand
Re: small block olds oil fill tube
Re: Olds Oiling Systems SB
Re: '69 VIN  Deciphering
Re: Decal Removal Problem
67 Parts
Lead, '78 Delta 88 Holiday Coupe
True Dual Exhaust Manifolds
Re: Olds 455 oiling system
Re: True Dual Exhaust Manifolds
Re: Cryogenic's (was Mondello Prices!)
Re: True Dual Exhaust Manifolds
Re: Turkey Rod Run Daytona
Re: '69 VIN Deciphering
The 394 engine
RE: True Dual Exhaust Manifolds
Re: Merry Xmas To Me!
Re: Cryogenics'. Is there a metalurgist in the house?
New Member
Re: Cryogenic's (was Mondello Prices!)
Re: Cryogenics'. Is there a metalurgist in the house?
Re: motor check stand
Re: Cryogenics'. Is there a metalurgist in the house?
Re: The 394 engine
RE: New Member
Re: Cryogenics'. Is there a metalurgist in the house?
Brake Drums
Re: True Dual Exhaust Manifolds
Thanks Ray!
Alternator swap from Ext regulator to Int reg.
RE: Thanks Ray!
RE: Thanks Ray!
RE: Thanks Ray!
Bondo:Friend or Foe?
Re: 1985 Olds 442
Re: 1985 Olds 442
BB heads on a SB ?
69 for sale
Re: New Member
Re: Bondo:Friend or Foe?
Re: small block olds oil fill tube
Re: '73-'77 Cutlass Specs
Igor 20
Re: Cryogenics'. Is there a metalurgist in the house?
Welcome New Member
More on The 394 engine

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 19:00:39 -0500
From: "Arnold, W D" <w.d.arnold@lmco.com>
Subject: RE: filling heat risers

40 HP is alot more than 16 HP mondello tech told me.  If we avg the 2, we're
still looking at 29 HP gain.  I'm thinking it's worth it.  How long has it
been since you filled your heads?  And have you checked them since?
I am absolutely gonna stay away from that zinc-alum alloy since Butch sent
his message yesterday about the disappearance of his fill job !!! (Although
it could have been a lean condition)

How did you heat the head?

My college chemistry book lists the melting temps as:

Alum (pure > non existent in real world stuff)  =  660.2 C ( 1220.36 F )
Zinc (pure > nearly non-existent)   = 419.4 C  ( 786.92 F )
Mondello's ZA-12 = 810 F    Calc's to 95% Zinc and 5% Alum.


I think I'm gonna side with Mr. Brode here and get some good use out of some
previously unusable scored pistons.  Since pistons don't usually burn
through, they would make a very good candidate for filling heat risers.

Thanks for all the help.
Donny

> ----------
> From: 	David Brode[SMTP:dbrode@hereintown.net]
> Reply To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Sent: 	Saturday, November 21, 1998 11:00 AM
> To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: 	Re: filling heat risers
> 
> Hello all,
>  I've wondered why anyone uses the "Mondello" alloy for filling the heat
> riser. I just melt some dirty old used cast pistons in a flea market
> cast iron skillet. I lay the head on a steel bench on the intake side,
> and heat the head up until it's hot to the touch, and pour the alum into
> a little trough made of 1"X1" angle iron.
>  Dave Smith told me that this combined cutting the exhaust side back
> until the center divider is flush is worth 40 horse on a 455.
>  The best part is it gets rid of the "bub, bub, bub" exhaust sound.
> Dave Brode
>  64 Cutlass 
> 
> 
> . 
> > I filled my C heads with zink heated it up poured it in, cleaned the
> > excess with grinder, pulled the heads two years later and the zink was
> > gone on both heads , where ? I guess out the exhaust.   Butch  68  442
> > post
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 18:46:30 -0500
From: "Frederick Nissen" <FSNissen@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: speedo gear info

Igor,
Light blue 45 tooth for a '76 Th 400  (19 tooth drive gear) and 3.23 rear
end.  From the '76 Olds Chassis Manual P 4B-36.  Note that this is for
H78-15 tires.
Regards,
Fred
- -----Original Message-----
From: Igor T. '81 DRB 455 <igor455@home.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Friday, November 20, 1998 8:27 PM
Subject: Re: speedo gear info


>Thanks.  The tranny is '76 (from a Delta), the rear is '78 from a Buick
>LeSabre, and the whole thing is in a '81 Delta.  I pulled the speedo gear
>out of the Buick when I got the rear.  However, the trans. from the Buick
>was TH350, mine is TH400.  The gear from the Buicks TH350 was beige in
>color.  Which manual do I look for to see these specks.  Chiltons or so.
>There was a 3.23 option on the '76, so if I can locate the manual, I might
>be in luck.  Thanks.
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 18:34:01 -0500
From: "Frederick Nissen" <FSNissen@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Olds Oiling Systems SB

Toro pans are larger in both depth and fore and aft dimensions of the sump.
Depends on the body and exhaust configuration of the car you are putting it
in as to whether it will fit.  On most it precludes a single exhaust as
there is no place to put the crossover pipe.  The oil pump pickup tube is
longer.
Diesels use the same pan as the gas 350.  Extra oil is all in the cooler
circuit.  It does not drain back on shutdown.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 17:11:14 -0800 (PST)
From: John Pajak <jspajak@yahoo.com>
Subject: Merry Xmas To Me!

     Well folks, I did it! Today I bought an 87 442! Gray/silver (bare
metal 1 yr old repaint), Gray interior. 60K old GM Goodwrench 'Y'
motor (they couldn't get a '9'). Aftermarket posi carrier. Power
windows, seats, sunroof, AM/FM/Cassette. This is one cool car. The
only thing I need is the sunroof trim around the inside that finishes
off the headliner edges. Anybody got one to sell? (color unimportant)
     We already have an 86 Supreme plus a bunch of other Oldses, but
this was too good to pass up...I only paid $2500 for it :) Pictures
coming soon.

 
==
"2 + 2 = 5 for sufficiently large values of 2"

John Pajak
Lexington Park, Maryland

Check out our cars, trucks and a whole lot more at
http://members.tripod.com/~JSPajak
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 17:58:24 -0500
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: motor check stand

...need an elect. engineer like Joe P....
___________

Whoa!  Sorry, I don't do electrons.  The degree is in
Aeronautical/Astronautical Engineering (yes, rocket science), though my
specialty is mechanical/structures.

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 20:07:27 -0500
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: small block olds oil fill tube

On my 403 I just knocked it out(from the bottom) with a hammer, did'nt
hurt it at all. Scott
________

Scott,

I've never worked on a 403, but every on other Olds V8 I've ever had apart
the bottom of the oil fill tube is not accessable.  Are you possibly
talking about the dipstick tube, or is the 403 different in the timing
chain area from other Olds motors?

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 20:04:02 -0500
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: Olds Oiling Systems SB

What is the difference between a Toro oil pan and the normal SB Olds
pans?...
__________

The Toro pan has a deeper sump; it holds five quarts (plus one in the
filter for six total) while all other Olds pans (big block, small block,
and diesel) only hold four quarts (plus one in the filter).  The Toro pan
_will_ fit an A-body chassis (can't speak to G-bodies; I assume someone
like Charlie will have the info).  The oil pump is the same, but the pickup
tube is longer for a Toro.  Toro pans will fit all 64-up (except 394, of
course) Olds V8 blocks, big and small.  The diesel pan is the same as all
other small block pand and only holds four quarts; its the additional
volume in the oil cooler that gets the system up to six.

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 20:26:39 -0500
From: Don Sowers <dstaxpro@lex.infi.net>
Subject: Re: '69 VIN  Deciphering

RANDY A GEISEL wrote:

> > But the owner 'swears' it a ram rod 400 that has just been
> 
> 68-69 400 block id # is 396026 with a G code
> 66-67 400 block id # is 390925 with an E code
> 
> > Is the car worth $2500 in rough shape?
> 
> If the engine was just rebuilt.......probably
> 
> All of this came from the FAQ ..........www.442.com

I thought the only ramrod engine was a 350.  Was there a 400 version as
well?

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 20:49:54 -0500
From: Arthur Hoffman <oldsctls67@home.com>
Subject: Re: Decal Removal Problem

nail polish remover?

Worked on my 93 Plymouth Duster...

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 20:55:38 -0500
From: Arthur Hoffman <oldsctls67@home.com>
Subject: 67 Parts

Greetings list,

Just finished up putting the rebuilt 4-barrel/intake deal on my 67
Cutlass Convertible.  (Still got the old 2-barrel stuff in the garage in
case anybody wants it)  Now maybe I'll finally get around to doing
something that NEEDS to be done, like replacing my starter
wiring....Anyway, the Old girl absolutely kicks butt now!  My questions
is:  I need 2 little bitty things, and my usual sources have dried up
looking for them.  I need a right side visor pivot that isn't cracked,
and I need the lower body spear moldings for a plain Cutlass  (Just the
2 door sections, I have the other 4 pieces)  ANy help would be mucho
appreciated!

Art

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 20:51:51 -0500
From: dk0009@mail.pratt.lib.md.us (Douglas Kitchener)
Subject: Lead, '78 Delta 88 Holiday Coupe

Hey Greg,

What's up?

Hoping someone on the Olds list might be able to give this thing a home...

Regards,

Doug

                                     ************

Hey, Olds Listers,

A computer/email-deprived Olds friend from Connecticut told me last night that 
a 
dealer near him has taken in a '78 Delta 88 Holiday Coupe.  This is the 
special 
package with bucket seats and console, and some other stuff... I think the pkg 
also included sport mirrors and special wheel covers, and a landau top.  Don 
sez 
this car is red (probly carmine) with white top, white seats (probly the red 
or 
carmine/white "compaticolor" interior), and a moonroof.  No idea what engine, 
I 
guess it could be anything from a 231 to a 403.  125,000 miles on odometer.  
Don 
sez the car is solid, but needs a repaint and some TLC, and this dealer is 
looking for maybe $700 on it, he thinks.  He's got 20-some cars so isn't 
interested.  I told him I'd let the list know and he said he'd be happy to go 
and take a closer look at it if anyone's interested.  These are pretty good 
cars 
to begin with, and this one, being a Holiday coupe is probly worth saving.  I 
think he also said that the car passed CT inspection 2 yrs ago.  There's more 
to 
teh story but I won't take up the space here...

Email me privately if anyone's interested, since I'm not signed on the list...

Rocket on!

Doug Kitchener
dk0009@mail.pratt.lib.md.us

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 19:01:16 -0800
From: "Tim Wurtz" <tropical@micron.net>
Subject: True Dual Exhaust Manifolds

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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I need dual exhaust manifolds (stock) for racing, going on the 350 head. =
What cars if any had this? Thanks for the help............Tim

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<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I need dual exhaust manifolds =
(stock) for=20
racing, going on the 350 head. What cars if any had this? Thanks for the =

help............Tim</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01BE1581.51250E20--

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 20:29:43 -0500
From: Rebel1 <rebel1@raex.com>
Subject: Re: Olds 455 oiling system

Peter Landowski wrote:

> You should be fine. I would get a Mondello catalog or call him up and see
> what pan will fit for your car. I really am not familiar with your type of
> car. When you spin a bearing you will lose all of your oil pressure and
> possibly lock the motor. A main bearing spin can cause you to crack the
> crank in half. A rod knock will sound like someone is hitting the block
> with a hammer very quickly. A rod bearing spin can cause the rod to break
> and fly through the block itself destroying the block and everything else
> with it.

Been there done that for both instances - I spun two mains on a lack luster 231
- - motor still ran but made the most god aweful chirping/screching sound you
ever heard... As for the rod experience - quoted a line from the movie "Hot
Rod" (cool flick with '69 Cutlass!) - "... if you blow it up, you fix it
faster.  If it blows up with a single quad, rebuild it with dual quads, if you
blow that up bolt a blower to it..." and so the story goes.  Well I burnt an
exhaust valve on my then stock '77 350 (intake leak combined with a 6 hour
drive on the expressway...).  Being a true gear head and having my newly
acquired tax return check I decided to fix it faster - bought the full
Edelbrock Performer RPM package for the motor - the motor only had about 85K on
it so i felt confident about the bottom end (50psi hot at speed / 10psi hot
idle).  Well I'm not sure which had the greatest contribution to the
destruction of the motor... the cam which allowed it to pull much stronger than
ever before or the milling of the heads and valve job that added to the
compression... But on my third traction hunting pass at the strip I cracked the
skirt off a piston, which let it rock in the bore, hit the head, S shape the
rod, which in it's mangled state - hit the bottom of the cylinder and send a
crack clear to the head, which in turn snapped the rod and sent it flying out
the oil pan!!! (got a really neat but slightly fuzzy picture of the rod hanging
out of the hole with the motor still in the car)
Surprisingly, the motor did restart after being towed back to the pits! (had to
try...)  Guess it truely is hard to kill an OLDS!!!
As a side note I was rather impressed with how much of a difference the RPM kit
and roller rocker kit made!
Todd Daenzer
'69 rag top - 310hp tied to a 'glide :-(
'75 Supreme - project car....
'82 Supreme - SB, 700R4, 3.73's - Grin!
'86 Supreme - V-8 - daily driver...

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 18:09:28 -0800
From: Bob Blanchard <bob149@uswest.net>
Subject: Re: True Dual Exhaust Manifolds

At 07:01 PM 11/21/98 -0800, you wrote: 
>
> I need dual exhaust manifolds (stock) for racing, going on the 350 head.
What
> cars if any had this? Thanks for the help............Tim

There are no SB true dual manifolds.

BTW: if you want one, the cap for blocking the crossover pipe makes an
exellant place to mount a oxygen sensor. :)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 21:14:54 -0500
From: Rebel1 <rebel1@raex.com>
Subject: Re: Cryogenic's (was Mondello Prices!)

Gasman24 wrote:

> > Sure a $180.00 pair of Vandervill rod & main bearings that have been
> <snip>
>  Umm... Hate to ask again but, just how is this process done?
> If the only thing involved is putting your bearings in liquid nitrogen
> could'nt you just do this yourself?
>  Or do you have to use some special type bearing? Or is there some
> "magic" process you have to follow?  Scott <stulk@bellsouth.net>

Actually there is a specific process for this, similar to a heat treat process
- - but in reverse.  The parts are slow cooled to -300+  - if you just dump the
parts in liquid nitrogen they can EXPLODE from residual stresses in the part.
The part(s) are then allow to soak for a specified time at that temp., then
they are warmed back up to 0, recooled to something like -160 allowed to soak
then brought back up to room temp.  Naturally this is just an example of a
generic cycle - it varies by manufacturer and desired results...Just my .02...
'69 rag top - 310hp tied to a 'glide :-(
'75 Supreme - project car....
'82 Supreme - SB, 700R4, 3.73's - Grin!
'86 Supreme - V-8 - daily driver...

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 21:15:48 -0500
From: "Frederick Nissen" <FSNissen@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: True Dual Exhaust Manifolds

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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As far as I know, all small blocks with dual exhausts from the factory =
used the standard manifolds with the crossover port on the pass. side =
capped.  Joe P or Greg R - correct me if I am wrong.
Regards,
Fred


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<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>As far as I know, all small blocks =
with dual=20
exhausts from the factory used the standard manifolds with the crossover =
port on=20
the pass. side capped.&nbsp; Joe P or Greg R - correct me if I am=20
wrong.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT><FONT =
size=3D2>Regards,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Fred</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 21:21:42 -0500
From: Bill Gochenour <bill@neisys.com>
Subject: Re: Turkey Rod Run Daytona

retrotek@phoenixat.com wrote:
> 
> We are looking for someone from central Florida who is going to Daytona who
> may have an extra space on their car carrier.  We have two cars to sell and
> would rather trailer the Oldsmobile over.  (For a fee, of course.)
> 
> If you know anyone or have the extra space, email us at 
retrotek@phoenixat.com.
> 
> Thx
> 
> Robin


When is this function being held at Daytona? I've just recently relocatd
to Orlando and would like to attend, please let me know.


Thanks !

- -- 
                                                     
Bill !                                         

1986 Cutlass 442 "The Perfect 10"             _           _       ___
     Mobile Electronics Show Car            /  |        /  |    /  _  \
1983 Hurst/Olds 15th Anniversary Edition  /    |      /    |   |_|   | |
     Oldsmobile 100th Centennial # 2218 /  / | |_   /  / | |_      /  /
1993 Chevrolet Lumina Z-34             |_____   _| |_____   _|   /  /__
1997 Chevrolet Monte Carlo Z-34		     |_|         |_|   |_______|


	http://area51.stjohns.edu/~toychest     (updated 10/9/98)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 21:33:23 -0500
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: '69 VIN Deciphering

The digits are the 6th and 7th ( 9M ).

         344879M317817

_________

You've got it all except for the 9 (denoting 1969) and the M (denoting
Lansing factory).  The car is a real 442.

==============

...a 455 (#396021 F) with Ga heads. But the owner 'swears' it a ram rod 400
that has just been rebuilt (looks like it has been).
_________

Since the owner is lying (or at least misinformed) about the motor, I'd be
cautious that the "rebuild" was accomplished using only a couple of cans of
engine enamel.  Make him produce receipts.  A written, notarized guarantee
would go a long way towards convincing me otherwise.

Also, FYI, the "Ram Rod 400" designation was only used on the W-30 in 1969
(W-32 cars got the "442" air cleaner label).  If the car were an original
W-30, in addition to the Lansing build (which it is), it would also have
red inner fenders with cutouts for the under bumper scoops, as well as
manual brakes and no A/C.  If it were an original "Ram Rod 400" W-30 motor,
it would obviously be a G-block 400 with D heads.

==============

...Is the car worth $2500 in rough shape?
_________

It depends.  If the body is completely rust free, with no filler anywhere,
it probably is.  Be very careful about checking, especially around the
windshield and back window.  The vinyl top only compounds the problem of
rust in this pinchweld area.  You will almost certainly find some rust
under the stainless trim around this glass.  Will the owner allow you to
remove the trim prior to purchase?  To put this in perspective, I recently
purchased a 69 442 of almost the same description as yours for $2150.  I'll
have spent $6500 total (including the purchase price) by the time I'm done
to make it right (and here, "right" means a good-looking, solid, dependable
daily driver, not a show car), and that's doing every bit of the work
myself, including paint and body.  This "rust-free" southern car still had
holes in the pinchweld area, in addition to pinholes in the fender bottoms.
I'd be wary of that "100 lbs" of dirt, as it can both retain moisture and
hide rust.

In case you haven't sensed it, I worry a lot less about mechanical
condition than rust.  Maybe I'm paranoid, but most mechanical items can be
easily fixed.

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 21:57:49 -0500
From: "Ray Costanzo" <costanzo@netcarrier.com>
Subject: The 394 engine

Hi original list!

I've been wondering this for years now, what car came with the 394?  What is
different about this engine, how long did it last, what kind of power output
did it have, etc. etc. usw. usw.
Just curious.

Ray Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass
Bucks County, PA
costanzo@netcarrier.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 22:04:18 -0500
From: "Ray Costanzo" <costanzo@netcarrier.com>
Subject: RE: True Dual Exhaust Manifolds

Sorry to reply to the list, list, don't see Tim's address, but I turned off
the HTML for y'all!


Tim,
If you get a response to this could you please pass it my way.
I spend most of my time on the g-body list, and it is likely I'd miss any
responses.
I have 72 350 heads on my 403 and I'm looking for some good manifolds.  I've
heard of stock high-flow ones, but I've never heard an accurate story about
them.

Thanks a lot!

Ray Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass
Bucks County, PA
costanzo@netcarrier.com

This is the original post!

I need dual exhaust manifolds (stock) for racing, going on the 350 head.
What cars if any had this? Thanks for the help............Tim

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 22:14:22 -0500
From: Matt Cremean <creme1ma@cmich.edu>
Subject: Re: Merry Xmas To Me!

John Pajak wrote:
> 
>      Well folks, I did it! Today I bought an 87 442! Gray/silver (bare
> metal 1 yr old repaint), Gray interior. 60K old GM Goodwrench 'Y'
> motor (they couldn't get a '9'). Aftermarket posi carrier. Power
> windows, seats, sunroof, AM/FM/Cassette. This is one cool car. The
> only thing I need is the sunroof trim around the inside that finishes
> off the headliner edges. Anybody got one to sell? (color unimportant)
>      We already have an 86 Supreme plus a bunch of other Oldses, but
> this was too good to pass up...I only paid $2500 for it :) Pictures
> coming soon.

Wow, congrats John! Sounds like a great car even if it is unoriginal.
Good find.

- -- 
***********
Matt Cremean
mailto:creme1ma@cmich.edu
***************************
1973 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme (350 V-8 4 bbl)
1975 Oldsmobile Cutlass S (250 I-6 1 bbl)
1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass S (350 V-8 2 bbl)
1983 Ch*vrolet C*price (305 V-8 4 bbl)
*******************************************
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/
*******************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 03:30:00 -0600
From: "Charles A. Dempsey" <cdemps@lsumc.edu>
Subject: Re: Cryogenics'. Is there a metalurgist in the house?

"Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net> wrote:

> would carefully look for options, working with Liq. Nit is like working
> with molten steel, only in reverse. results can be the same to the human
> body, not something for the do it your selfer. 

Actually it's not that bad. We use it in the lab to freeze tissue. It
will spit and hiss when you drop room temp stuff in it, but nothing very
scarey. Nevertheless, the temperature of boiling liquid nitrogen is
- -195.8 degrees C. It will freeze your patootey in an heartbeat. Do not
work with a dangerous quantity. It doesn't take a whole vat full to cool
articles the size of a bearing insert.

> by the time you buy special
> containment vessels, tools, protective gear, and the product itself,
> Mondello would be cheap. + you would have to know the procedure, doubt if
> you can just drop them into a vat of it.

The containment vessel can be nothing more complicated than a styrofoam
ice chest (not recommended. Uses too much N2, but works in a pinch). A
glass or stainless dewar flask (simple thermos bottle) is better. Other
than that it makes sense to wear safety glasses and long sleeves. If you
have to handle the object, thick gloves are a must, but if you use
bamboo tongs you won't have to touch it at all.

Having said all that, I don't see the point, and I don't think it's cost
effective. A tank of nitrogen with a dip tube costs more than a set of
bearings. Also, I doubt if the process is simply a matter of dunking the
bearings in liquid nitrogen for a bit.

Gasman24 <stulk@bellsouth.net> wrote:

> >  Umm... Hate to ask again but, just how is this process done?

I'm curious too. What is this cryogenic bearing business supposed to do?
Is there a metalurgist in the house?

Charles

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 19:17:20 PST
From: "Doug Pack" <dougs_nova@hotmail.com>
Subject: New Member

Hey yall. My name is Doug Pack. I'm 15 years old and I'm in love
with the great muscle machines of the '70's - particularly the
Olds 442 and the Chevy Nova. My love for muscle cars started when
I saw a picture of a light blue '71 Olds 442 W-30. Ever since, 
this has been my dream car. I hope to have one some day. I asked
dad, but he said that was far too much power for me. We did quite
a bit of looking around and I ended up with a '77 Chevy Nova.
The car is completely stock and has quite a bit of "get up and go".
Enough to whup a few stangs. Anyway, I've learned quite a bit
about Novas on the Nova mailing list, and I wanted to find a little
bit more about Oldsmobiles, so I turned here. Anyway, I just 
wanted to say "hi" and introduce myself. 
    -Doug Pack

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 22:33:27 EST
From: KS7RACING@aol.com
Subject: Re: Cryogenic's (was Mondello Prices!)

Scott,

I remember watching a program about this on the news here in Kansas City.  It
takes hours to get down to the temperature of the liquid nitrogen, then it's
kept there for a certain amount of time, then slowly raised back to normal
temperature.  They showed it being done to brass instruments and golf (yuck!)
clubs as well as engine parts.

If I could find a number for the place, I'd be curious to find out the cost
for the process.

Take Care,
Ken Snyder
Kansas City, Kansas
ks7racing@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 22:41:56 -0500
From: Rebel1 <rebel1@raex.com>
Subject: Re: Cryogenics'. Is there a metalurgist in the house?

Cryogenicly treated parts exhibit a much finer, homogenous microstructure than
that of "as formed" parts.  The process performs a similar function to that of
heat treating - except instead of heating the parts are cooled to below -300
degrees.  Similar to a heat treat process, there a required cooling rates, soak
times, etc.  Also most companies that offer this process do not use a simple
single step process.  It ussually involve slow cooling the parts to below -300
(- if you dip something like a connecting rod directly into chilled liquid
nitrogen your risking having it explode from the residual stress that will be
imparted on the part -) the parts are then held for a specific time (dependant
on material) warmed to 0, cooled back to the -150 range for another soak
cylcle, then brought to room temperature.  The temperatures and processing
schemes vary from vendor to vendor and also by the type of material to be
treated, but it isn't something the most of use can duplicate in the garage
(might be fun to try on small parts though...)
Todd Daenzer
(Metallurgical Engineer - by degree and profession...)
'69 rag top - 310hp tied to a 'glide :-(
'75 Supreme - project car....
'82 Supreme - SB, 700R4, 3.73's - Grin!)
'86 Supreme - V-8 - daily driver...

Charles A. Dempsey wrote:

> "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net> wrote:
>
> > would carefully look for options, working with Liq. Nit is like working
> > with molten steel, only in reverse. results can be the same to the human
> > body, not something for the do it your selfer.
>
> Actually it's not that bad. We use it in the lab to freeze tissue. It
> will spit and hiss when you drop room temp stuff in it, but nothing very
> scarey. Nevertheless, the temperature of boiling liquid nitrogen is
> -195.8 degrees C. It will freeze your patootey in an heartbeat. Do not
> work with a dangerous quantity. It doesn't take a whole vat full to cool
> articles the size of a bearing insert.
>
> > by the time you buy special
> > containment vessels, tools, protective gear, and the product itself,
> > Mondello would be cheap. + you would have to know the procedure, doubt if
> > you can just drop them into a vat of it.
>
> The containment vessel can be nothing more complicated than a styrofoam
> ice chest (not recommended. Uses too much N2, but works in a pinch). A
> glass or stainless dewar flask (simple thermos bottle) is better. Other
> than that it makes sense to wear safety glasses and long sleeves. If you
> have to handle the object, thick gloves are a must, but if you use
> bamboo tongs you won't have to touch it at all.
>
> Having said all that, I don't see the point, and I don't think it's cost
> effective. A tank of nitrogen with a dip tube costs more than a set of
> bearings. Also, I doubt if the process is simply a matter of dunking the
> bearings in liquid nitrogen for a bit.
>
> Gasman24 <stulk@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> > >  Umm... Hate to ask again but, just how is this process done?
>
> I'm curious too. What is this cryogenic bearing business supposed to do?
> Is there a metalurgist in the house?
>
> Charles

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 21:50:48 -0600
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: motor check stand

Joe,
Would like to send a 3# package to the moon, my bones, almost, after the
fry baby funeral, maybe they can reconstruct, later.. Don't know what the 2
Old's weight, fried.
Lou

- ----------
> From: Padavano.Joe@orbital.com
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: motor check stand
> Date: Saturday, November 21, 1998 4:58 PM
> 
> ...need an elect. engineer like Joe P....
> ___________
> 
> Whoa!  Sorry, I don't do electrons.  The degree is in
> Aeronautical/Astronautical Engineering (yes, rocket science), though my
> specialty is mechanical/structures.
> 
> Joe Padavano
> padavano.joe@orbital.com
> 
> 66 442
> 68 W-30
> 69 H/O
> 69 442
> 70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 21:56:31 -0600
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: Cryogenics'. Is there a metalurgist in the house?

thanks, Gasman,
scary to me.
Lou Biggs
lbiggs@intertek.net


- ----------
> From: Charles A. Dempsey <cdemps@lsumc.edu>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Cryogenics'. Is there a metalurgist in the house?
> Actually it's not that bad. We use it in the lab to freeze tissue. It
> will spit and hiss when you drop room temp stuff in it, but nothing very
> scarey. Nevertheless, the temperature of boiling liquid nitrogen is
> -195.8 degrees C. It will freeze your patootey in an heartbeat. Do not
> work with a dangerous quantity. It doesn't take a whole vat full to cool
> articles the size of a bearing insert.
> 
> > by the time you buy special
> > containment vessels, tools, protective gear, and the product itself,
> > Mondello would be cheap. + you would have to know the procedure, doubt
if
> > you can just drop them into a vat of it.
> 
> The containment vessel can be nothing more complicated than a styrofoam
> ice chest (not recommended. Uses too much N2, but works in a pinch). A
> glass or stainless dewar flask (simple thermos bottle) is better. Other
> than that it makes sense to wear safety glasses and long sleeves. If you
> have to handle the object, thick gloves are a must, but if you use
> bamboo tongs you won't have to touch it at all.
> 
> Having said all that, I don't see the point, and I don't think it's cost
> effective. A tank of nitrogen with a dip tube costs more than a set of
> bearings. Also, I doubt if the process is simply a matter of dunking the
> bearings in liquid nitrogen for a bit.
> 
> Gasman24 <stulk@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> 
> > >  Umm... Hate to ask again but, just how is this process done?
> 
> I'm curious too. What is this cryogenic bearing business supposed to do?
> Is there a metalurgist in the house?
> 
> Charles

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 22:53:36 -0500
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: The 394 engine

I've been wondering this for years now, what car came with the 394?  What
is
different about this engine, how long did it last, what kind of power
output
did it have, etc. etc. usw. usw.
___________

The 394 was the last of the original Olds Rocket V8 engine family, starting
with the 1949 303.  The 394 was released in 1959 (or was it 1960) and used
in the full size cars until the 425 was released in 1965.  Note that while
the 394 is based on the earlier Rocket V8s, many parts are not
interchangeable due to differences in the intake ports and manifold.  For
this reason, it is not possible to put a J-2 tripower manifold on a 394
motor (the J-2 was a 371).

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 22:57:28 -0500
From: "Ray Costanzo" <costanzo@netcarrier.com>
Subject: RE: New Member

Welcome Doug.
You'll find out more here than any one brain can remember.  Kinda
overwhelming at times.

Ray Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass
Bucks County, PA
costanzo@netcarrier.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 21:59:26 -0600
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: Cryogenics'. Is there a metalurgist in the house?

Rebel, 
What is the temp of Liq Nitr, -353f, don't know. Your show now! thanks,
Lou Biggs
lbiggs@intertek.net


- ----------
> From: Rebel1 <rebel1@raex.com>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Cryogenics'. Is there a metalurgist in the house?
> Date: Saturday, November 21, 1998 9:41 PM
> 
> Cryogenicly treated parts exhibit a much finer, homogenous microstructure
than
> that of "as formed" parts.  The process performs a similar function to
that of
> heat treating - except instead of heating the parts are cooled to below
- -300
> degrees.  Similar to a heat treat process, there a required cooling
rates, soak
> times, etc.  Also most companies that offer this process do not use a
simple
> single step process.  It ussually involve slow cooling the parts to below
- -300
> (- if you dip something like a connecting rod directly into chilled
liquid
> nitrogen your risking having it explode from the residual stress that
will be
> imparted on the part -) the parts are then held for a specific time
(dependant
> on material) warmed to 0, cooled back to the -150 range for another soak
> cylcle, then brought to room temperature.  The temperatures and
processing
> schemes vary from vendor to vendor and also by the type of material to be
> treated, but it isn't something the most of use can duplicate in the
garage
> (might be fun to try on small parts though...)
> Todd Daenzer
> (Metallurgical Engineer - by degree and profession...)
> '69 rag top - 310hp tied to a 'glide :-(
> '75 Supreme - project car....
> '82 Supreme - SB, 700R4, 3.73's - Grin!)
> '86 Supreme - V-8 - daily driver...
> 
> Charles A. Dempsey wrote:
> 
> > "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net> wrote:
> >
> > > would carefully look for options, working with Liq. Nit is like
working
> > > with molten steel, only in reverse. results can be the same to the
human
> > > body, not something for the do it your selfer.
> >
> > Actually it's not that bad. We use it in the lab to freeze tissue. It
> > will spit and hiss when you drop room temp stuff in it, but nothing
very
> > scarey. Nevertheless, the temperature of boiling liquid nitrogen is
> > -195.8 degrees C. It will freeze your patootey in an heartbeat. Do not
> > work with a dangerous quantity. It doesn't take a whole vat full to
cool
> > articles the size of a bearing insert.
> >
> > > by the time you buy special
> > > containment vessels, tools, protective gear, and the product itself,
> > > Mondello would be cheap. + you would have to know the procedure,
doubt if
> > > you can just drop them into a vat of it.
> >
> > The containment vessel can be nothing more complicated than a styrofoam
> > ice chest (not recommended. Uses too much N2, but works in a pinch). A
> > glass or stainless dewar flask (simple thermos bottle) is better. Other
> > than that it makes sense to wear safety glasses and long sleeves. If
you
> > have to handle the object, thick gloves are a must, but if you use
> > bamboo tongs you won't have to touch it at all.
> >
> > Having said all that, I don't see the point, and I don't think it's
cost
> > effective. A tank of nitrogen with a dip tube costs more than a set of
> > bearings. Also, I doubt if the process is simply a matter of dunking
the
> > bearings in liquid nitrogen for a bit.
> >
> > Gasman24 <stulk@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >
> > > >  Umm... Hate to ask again but, just how is this process done?
> >
> > I'm curious too. What is this cryogenic bearing business supposed to
do?
> > Is there a metalurgist in the house?
> >
> > Charles
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 21:56:08 -0600
From: "James Moore" <panman638@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Brake Drums

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BE1599.BEC03640
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I am looking for new oem brake drums for a 1946 Old's. Is there anyone =
that knows were they can be found?

- ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BE1599.BEC03640
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#d8d0c8>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I am looking for new oem brake drums =
for a 1946=20
Old's. Is there anyone that knows were they can be=20
found?</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BE1599.BEC03640--

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 23:05:57 EST
From: KS7RACING@aol.com
Subject: Re: True Dual Exhaust Manifolds

Tim,

I found a particular exhaust manifold that worked well for me when I had to
run stock exhaust manifolds on a circle track car.  It was off of a late 70's
Toronado with a 403, they don't have the crossover provision in the
passenger's side manifold, and I used the regular Cutlass 350 manifold on the
driver's side.  The only tricks with this setup are 1) you have to use the
Toro oil filter adapter, and 2) you have to be careful with clearance on the
oil filter.  Otherwise, everything fits on a 71 Cutlass without air
conditioning and the PF-45 (not sure, is the AC filter for the diesel 350)
clears the rear A-arm mount.  The exhaust opening on the manifold lined up
real well on my car, we had a custom exhaust system put on so it fit liked it
was factory-built.

I don't know if this would fit any other bodies, just tried this after I saw a
67 Toronado manifold and wondered if it would fit.  I didn't get that one, but
the 403 Toro manifold worked OK for us.

Something to consider........

Take Care,
Ken Snyder
Kansas City, Kansas
ks7racing@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 20:09:10 PST
From: "Doug Pack" <dougs_nova@hotmail.com>
Subject: Thanks Ray!

Dear Ray,
    Thanks man. I appriciate that. I noticed your signature said
"87 409 Cutlass". That must be QUITE the hoss. What kind of tranny
do you have in that thing? What kind of Carb setup? How do you
pass emissions? Do you have a site about? Forgive my questions,
I've just never heard of dropping that big of a block into a 
'80's model Cutlass. I bet it'll fly! Anyway, thanks so much for
the welcome. 
    -Doug Pack ('77 Nova)

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 23:29:03 -0500
From: "Arnold, W D" <w.d.arnold@lmco.com>
Subject: Alternator swap from Ext regulator to Int reg.

Hello again fellows,
Last week I bought a new 70 amp alternator(internally regulated) and
replaced the existing 27 amp alternator(externally regulated).  Rewired the
field 12 v trigger through a ign key controlled relay. And wala, there it
was, 13.8 volts at the battery.  "Yippee" I said as I opened a victory drink
( IBC rootbeer). 

Then I got in the car and noticed the "GEN" idiot light was on.  I know of
one solution (unplug the silly thing) but, I was hoping that someone here
could tell me how it should be wired so an idiot like me could have the
idiot light and know when it's too late to do anything about the problem.

Oh yeah, the light worked fine before the alt. job.  
Reason for alt. install:  I put in an elec. fan and a super-duty elec fuel
pump and I wanted hi-amp alternator ( bigger is better, right?). Plus taking
that ext reg off my firewall will make it look alot less 'busy' back there. 
  
Thanks in advance,
Donny

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 23:38:18 -0500
From: "Ray Costanzo" <costanzo@netcarrier.com>
Subject: RE: Thanks Ray!

Hey Doug,

The 409 in my Olds is an Olds 403 small block (bored 30 over).
Trasnission is a TH350.  I love that transmission.  It has taken ten times
more abuse than I gave to a previously owned TH400.
I'm using a Carter AFB 750 carb.
As far as emissions, as long as I keep my mileage under 5000 miles/year, the
car is exempt.  I really don't think I'd pass if I had to, so I am grateful
for that loophole.  That's the law in PA anyway.  We'll see how long that
lasts...

see ya!

Ray Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass
Bucks County, PA
costanzo@netcarrier.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of Doug Pack
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 1998 11:09 PM
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: Thanks Ray!


Dear Ray,
    Thanks man. I appriciate that. I noticed your signature said
"87 409 Cutlass". That must be QUITE the hoss. What kind of tranny
do you have in that thing? What kind of Carb setup? How do you
pass emissions? Do you have a site about? Forgive my questions,
I've just never heard of dropping that big of a block into a
'80's model Cutlass. I bet it'll fly! Anyway, thanks so much for
the welcome.
    -Doug Pack ('77 Nova)

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 23:39:11 -0500
From: "Arnold, W D" <w.d.arnold@lmco.com>
Subject: RE: Thanks Ray!

If you bore a 403 0.040" , then it would be a 409.89 !!
That would "1 up" those big block che@# guys. Hee,Hee....

> ----------
> From: 	Doug Pack[SMTP:dougs_nova@hotmail.com]
> Reply To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Sent: 	Saturday, November 21, 1998 11:09 PM
> To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: 	Thanks Ray!
> 
> Dear Ray,
>     Thanks man. I appriciate that. I noticed your signature said
> "87 409 Cutlass". That must be QUITE the hoss. What kind of tranny
> do you have in that thing? What kind of Carb setup? How do you
> pass emissions? Do you have a site about? Forgive my questions,
> I've just never heard of dropping that big of a block into a 
> '80's model Cutlass. I bet it'll fly! Anyway, thanks so much for
> the welcome. 
>     -Doug Pack ('77 Nova)
> 
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 00:17:29 -0500
From: "Ray Costanzo" <costanzo@netcarrier.com>
Subject: RE: Thanks Ray!

That's it, where's the dremel?

- -----Original Message-----
From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of Arnold, W D
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 1998 11:39 PM
To: 'oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca'
Subject: RE: Thanks Ray!


If you bore a 403 0.040" , then it would be a 409.89 !!
That would "1 up" those big block che@# guys. Hee,Hee....

> ----------
> From: 	Doug Pack[SMTP:dougs_nova@hotmail.com]
> Reply To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Sent: 	Saturday, November 21, 1998 11:09 PM
> To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: 	Thanks Ray!
> 
> Dear Ray,
>     Thanks man. I appriciate that. I noticed your signature said
> "87 409 Cutlass". That must be QUITE the hoss. What kind of tranny
> do you have in that thing? What kind of Carb setup? How do you
> pass emissions? Do you have a site about? Forgive my questions,
> I've just never heard of dropping that big of a block into a 
> '80's model Cutlass. I bet it'll fly! Anyway, thanks so much for
> the welcome. 
>     -Doug Pack ('77 Nova)
> 
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 23:33:45 -0600
From: "Peter Landowski" <PETTRIX@prodigy.net>
Subject: Bondo:Friend or Foe?

I took my 72 442 down to bear metal. There are some dings in the metal and
we used a little bondo to fill those areas. The guy doing my car is very
good and he stated that every car out there has bondo on it. Whether or not
it is new or a show car, he said that every car has bondo in it. Bondo is
not a bad thing. As long as the prep is done right and there isn't 3 inches
of it in one spot it will look and work fine. Even a factory stamped
sheetmetal will have some type of flaw which needs to be filled in order
for it to be straight. What do you guys think????

Pettrix@prodigy.net

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 00:33:27 -0500
From: "Steve C" <cutlass@citlink.net>
Subject: Re: 1985 Olds 442

What the heck does that mean ? Is this the best answer you have, thanks but
no thanks, I was hoping for a more educated response
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- -----Original Message-----
From: jason shreve <jasonshreve@hotmail.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Saturday, November 21, 1998 1:29 AM
Subject: Re: 1985 Olds 442


>
>
>Once is enough thank you!!!!!!
>
>
>
>>Does anybody know how many 1985 Olds 442 were made in the White /
>Silver =
>>color combo, or how many were made with the 5A heads instead of the 7A
>=
>>heads, Thanks=20
>>
>>  Steve C
>>
>
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 00:34:41 -0500
From: "Steve C" <cutlass@citlink.net>
Subject: Re: 1985 Olds 442

My freinds 85 442 has the 7A heads and he bought it new in May of 1985
- -----Original Message-----
From: Dave Cullen <david.cullen@snet.net>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Saturday, November 21, 1998 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: 1985 Olds 442


>    Dunno how many, but all 85 442's would have VIN "9" motors with 5A
>heads.
>
>    drc
>    ==========================
>
>
>    Does anybody know how many 1985 Olds 442 were made in the White /
Silver
>color combo, or how many were made with the 5A heads instead of the 7A
>heads, Thanks
>
>      Steve C
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 00:58:54 -0500
From: "Arnold, W D" <w.d.arnold@lmco.com>
Subject: BB heads on a SB ?

Sorry for all the non-sense Q's tonight, I guess my mind is trying to get to
big for it's little biddy cavity. 
  
Couldn't a fellow with say a 70-72 350 replace his heads with a set of BB
heads as long as they were milled the 0.060" (max per J.M.)? How could you
modify the intake bolt hole locations to align(split the difference then hog
out the intake to match) it up after the milling? 
I think I heard that the Edelbrock RPM intake had enough metal there to make
this swap...

  Head    Floor    Roof    Width    Height    
    BB      0.470"   2.85"   1.37"    2.37" (2.38" ?)
    SB      0.435"   2.45"   1.30"    2.03" (2.015" ?)                

diff >>>  0.035"    0.40"   0.07"   0.34"

That 0.040" difference is hard to overcome.

If you tried a direct bolt up of BB heads(without milling) onto a SB , would
the SB intake port be center on the head port or would it be aligned at the
bottom.???

Would it make a lot of difference anyway?

oh, I'm getting a headache!!  I'd be better off going back to figuring out
how to put a 455 crank in a 403 !!!
    
Thanks for your patience,
Donny
72 442
89 Cutlass
87 Ni$$an truck w/che#@  V-8 ( yep, It'll go !! ) 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 01:11:33 EST
From: Sprotten25@aol.com
Subject: 69 for sale

i have a 69 cutlass for sale in louisana apparently i was asking to much will
some one please look at the pics and give me a idea. It is all original the
main problem areas are around the front and back glass. 350/2bbl bench seat  
<A HREF="C:\America Online 4.0\MbrFiles\PP3\Sprotten25\auto\OLDS.htm">Dino's
obsession</A>any help would be apreciated must sell found one i can fix ( i
don't know body work)

Dino

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 23:17:05 -0700
From: "Igor T. '81 DRB 455" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Re: New Member

Welcome.  Lots of stuff about olds that you will learn.  Novas are cool.
What kind of motor do you have.  I would like to get a late '70s Nova and
put a 455 olds and Th400 trans. into that car.  Hope you get your Olds some
day.

Igor Todorovic (20 yrs. old)

1981 Delta 88 (455/th400/3.23s)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 23:22:52 -0700
From: "Igor T. '81 DRB 455" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Re: Bondo:Friend or Foe?

I heard of this as well.  When I sanded my '81 Delta (I am not the first
owner, so I did not know the cars history), the part with least rust/flaws
had the MOST bondo and filler on it.  It has even more now, and we will see
how it comes out of the bodyshop.  Also, to get my hoodscoop mounted on the
'81 Deltas hood, the guy used rivets and some glue, then he grinded the
metal and even some of the scoop around it, put fiberglass on, sanded it,
put bondo on, made it look smooth.  This bodyman has lots of experience and
does good work.  He had never put on hood induction before (except a
complete hood swap, no brainier), but this one looks good.  I am kind of
unsure about hood induction on the Delta, but the job he did putting it in
is good.  Igor.

Igor Todorovic

1981 Delta 88 4dr (455/th400/3.23s)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 01:42:34 -0500
From: Gasman24 <stulk@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: small block olds oil fill tube

Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM wrote:
> 
> On my 403 I just knocked it out(from the bottom) with a hammer, did'nt
> hurt it at all. Scott
> ________
> 
> Scott,
> 
> I've never worked on a 403, but every on other Olds V8 I've ever had apart
> the bottom of the oil fill tube is not accessable.  Are you possibly
> talking about the dipstick tube, or is the 403 different in the timing
> chain area from other Olds motors?
> 
> Joe Padavano
> padavano.joe@orbital.com
> 
> 66 442
> 68 W-30
> 69 H/O
> 69 442
> 70 W-30

 And once again the mighty Joe corrects the unknowing! Guess I didn't 
read the post corect, I was indeed talking about the dipstick tube. 
Scott

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 22:38:46 -0800
From: "Marvin Friesen" <gowest@direct.ca>
Subject: Re: '73-'77 Cutlass Specs

1976 Cutlass S Coupe stats per Olds Dealer 1976 Competative Comparisons

width                    76.2 in  
overall length        209.6 in
luggage capacity        16.3 cu ft
fuel capacity            22.0  us gal
legroom                 front 42.4    back 32.9
headroom              front 37.2     back 36.7
shoulder room       front 59.6    back 57.9

other 

height       53.4 in
hip room        front 54.9    back 52.7
curb weight         3571 lbs


Supreme model figures vary slightly 

Marvin Friesen
Vancouver, BC  

1976 Cutlass S One Owner
1976 Cutlass S  2nd Owner



- -----Original Message-----
From: CCAC Network User cgc74 <cgc74@unix1.ccac.edu>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Monday, November 16, 1998 7:18 AM
Subject: '73-'77 Cutlass Specs


>Hi List,
>Anybody know any specs for '73-'77 Cutlass coupe and sedan.  I know that
>two doors had a 112" wheelbase and four doors had a 114" wheelbase.  I
>am looking for width, overall length, luggage capacity, fuel capacity,
>legroom, headroom and shoulder room.  Any help is appriciated.  Thanks
>-Chris Carlson
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 01:40:17 -0500
From: "Ray Costanzo" <costanzo@netcarrier.com>
Subject: Igor 20

Jeez, Igor, I thought you were an old guy that just managed to hang onto
some youth.  Plus most 20('s) year olds don't have 3-5 cars.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 02:09:32 -0500
From: Gasman24 <stulk@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Cryogenics'. Is there a metalurgist in the house?

Charles A. Dempsey wrote:
> 
> "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net> wrote:
> 
> > would carefully look for options, working with Liq. Nit is like working
> > with molten steel, only in reverse. results can be the same to the human
> > body, not something for the do it your selfer.
> 
> Actually it's not that bad. We use it in the lab to freeze tissue. It
> will spit and hiss when you drop room temp stuff in it, but nothing very
> 
> 
> > by the time you buy special
> > containment vessels, tools, protective gear, and the product itself,
> > Mondello would be cheap. + you would have to know the procedure, doubt if
> > you can just drop them into a vat of it.
> 
> The containment vessel can be nothing more complicated than a styrofoam
> ice chest (not recommended. Uses too much N2, but works in a pinch). 
> Having said all that, I don't see the point, and I don't think it's cost
> effective. A tank of nitrogen with a dip tube costs more than a set of
> bearings. Also, I doubt if the process is simply a matter of dunking the
> bearings in liquid nitrogen for a bit.
> 
> Gasman24 <stulk@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> 
> > >  Umm... Hate to ask again but, just how is this process done?
> 
> I'm curious too. What is this cryogenic bearing business supposed to do?
> Is there a metalurgist in the house?
> 
> Charles

 Well that's pretty much my question too, Just how much better are these
cryo treated bearings?
 I don't mean to drag this post out but I have a engine I'm rebuilding
and getting liquid nitrogen is no prob (read free ;-)) Anyway are these
bearings just for extreem measures like a drag race engine or is it
worth the mess for a "daily" driver. Scott

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 03:35:59 EST
From: KarlAune@aol.com
Subject: Welcome New Member

Welcome!
Ask whatever you want.
Usually there is ~someone~ in the readership that knows.
Sometimes it takes that one person in the know to read his/her digest that
contains the question.

<< My love for muscle cars started when I saw a picture of a light blue '71
Olds 442 W-30. Ever since,  this has been my dream car. I hope to have one
some day.  >>

That is a quest.
Good luck with it.

Someone prolly said so already, but around here we do not care all that much
for the "C" word, although many would give much to acquire a set of Oldsmobile
"C" Big Block cylinder heads.

Karl does crave your indulgence as he prefers to refer to that division of GM
as Ch*tty.
Not "flaming" any person or car, just a small source of personal amusement.

Hope you find your dream car.

Soylent Ocean Mist
(the 1965 Oldsmobile Dynamic 88 Celebrity Sedan)
[soon with Anti Spin!!]

&Karl Aune

KarlAune@aol.com
ICQ #20414415
http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/thurlow/858/index.html
http://members.aol.com/KarlAune/rage.html
Karl Aune is a licensed trademark of World Domination Limited,
    a division of Microsoft.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 04:07:35 EST
From: KarlAune@aol.com
Subject: More on The 394 engine

In a message dated 98-11-21 22:58:51 EST, you write:

<< The 394 was the last of the original Olds Rocket V8 engine family, starting
 with the 1949 303.  The 394 was released in 1959 (or was it 1960) and used
 in the full size cars until the 425 was released in 1965.  Note that while
 the 394 is based on the earlier Rocket V8s, many parts are not
 interchangeable due to differences in the intake ports and manifold.  For
 this reason, it is not possible to put a J-2 tripower manifold on a 394
 motor (the J-2 was a 371).
 
 Joe Padavano >>

Certainly not being one to detract from Joe P's statements, Karl wishes to add
some thoughts.

First, "Setting the Pace" does list 394's in 1959 with 371's still in the
Dynamic 88s. 
The Dynamic apparently being a low-end model. 1958 apparently saw the 371 in
all models (wasn't that the year of New-Matic suspension?). The 371 continued
to be available in the Dynamic in 1960, which is considered by most to be the
"carry-over" year as little canged from the last years models. 1961 saw the
first GM corporate 215s (made by Buick) as used in the new F-85, Buick
Special, Corvair, and whatever Pontoon offered as a unibody car (Olds used
their own cyl heads which made more power!).
The 394 continued to be the big car engine through 1964, with the 215 being
the small car engine until the introduction of the modern 330 in 1964.
(Interesting! there was a V6 225 in 1964! But it was prolly a Buick motor...)

So the 371 only lasted from 1957-1960, the 394 from 1959 - 1964 and the 215
from 1961-63.

Incidentally, the 394 is described (per "Setting the Pace") as a bored out
371, but do not put too much stock in that as it says the same of the 394 ->
425, which just aint so because the 425 was a new design based on the 330.

However (this was the point all along [really!]), the bore x strokes are
listed as 4.00 x 3.69 (for the 371) and 4.25 x 3.69 (394).
This ~might~ mean that the crank and rods can interchange (oil pan?), though
pistons, cyl heads, intake manifolds, and possibly exh manifolds were
different.

(but dont go buying a 394 crank for your 371 until someone confirms....)

Incidentally, ID-ing the 371s is a royal pain, as they do not have obvious #s
like on the 1964 on modern engines. Instead they used a unit serial # which
had an A (maybe) followed by six (??) digits in 1957, a B ~was~ used in 1958
followed by a number, and after that Karl cannot say.
Only real ID is to pull the cyl head and measure across the bore.
Less than 4" = 303 or 324, 4" = 371, 4.25" = 394.

And that's what Karl knows about the 371.

SOM
&KA

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #1617
*********************************

