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Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #1679


oldsmobile-digest      Monday, December 21 1998      Volume 01 : Number 1679



Re: starefire GT engine swap
8-track wiring?
Re: 68 H/O questions
Re: This guy's looking for advice; '72 Cutlass conv.
Wiring Diagram, 81 Regal/472Cad
Re: Still looking for cowl tag codes!
FS: More Stuff
RE: Paint Color:Wet-Sanding/Buffing?
Bore/Stroke of 330
87 Olds power
unsubscribe oldsmobile-digest
Re: [RE: Paint Color:Wet-Sanding/Buffing?]
FWD: Paint color: Wet-sanding/buffing?
Re: Tires
Re: Once more into the breach, dear friends: You are all ignoring Karl
Re: No Oldsmobile POS here..
Re: Paint color: Wet-sanding/buffing?
Re: Tires
Re: starefire GT engine swap
Canadian seeking Emblems
UNBOUNCE: RE: Answer to 'Color sanding"
Re: 8-track wiring?
Re: No Oldsmobile POS here..
Re: starefire GT engine swap
Re: 68 H/O questions
merry xmas- was(RE: Oldsmobile POS for sale)
Re: [Re: 8-track wiring?]
roller rockers on SB Olds?
Re: starefire GT engine swap
Re: roller rockers on SB Olds?
RE: roller rockers on SB Olds?
Re: Oldsmobile POS for sale
Re: Radiator Flushing/Cleaning?
Olds Mailing List Archive 1500 now available
Re: Oldsmobile POS for sale
Re: Oldsmobile POS for sale
1980 ID
Re: 1980 ID
Engine REBUILD
Great Link page
Re: Engine REBUILD
Re: Engine REBUILD
Re: Engine REBUILD
Re: Engine REBUILD
Re: Engine REBUILD
Re: 1970 cutlass supreme SX
Re: 1980 ID
Re: Engine REBUILD
Re: Camshaft selection, 350 V8    (LONG!)
Re: Once more into the breach, dear friends: You are all ignoring Karl
Re: Rear woe
71 Cutlass
Re: Rear woe

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 00:12:06 EST
From: KS7RACING@aol.com
Subject: Re: starefire GT engine swap

Chris/Listmembers,

Here's what I can relate to this thread:

My Starfire GT has the 231 B-word V-6 in it, and someday I hope to replace it
with an Olds 350 backed up with a 4 or 5 speed overdrive manual trans.  I do
know that the swap will not be easy, but I believe it's doable, and if I find
out otherwise I'll post it here ASAP.

I also own a 79 Starfire SX that originally had a 305 C-word engine in it, I
believe this was the infamous "pull the engine out to change the spark plugs"
car GM built.  The advantage that the Olds (and B-word, for that matter)
engines have is that after you deal with the exhaust manifolds or headers,
there's no clearance problems on the top side of the engine, unlike the C-
word's spark plugs which need additional clearance due to their location.  I
know that the starter and oil filter will need room, but I think they can be
worked around.

When I do this swap, I'll also be replacing the anemic front rotor and brake
system (uses failure-prone pins with "E" clips to hold the calipers on) for
the 78-up GM RWD A/G-body spindles, a common swap among the H07 and regular H-
body owners.  The rear axles can be directly swapped out for ones out of
specific S-10 pickups to get the 4 & 3/4" pattern all around so I can use 14 X
7" SS1 wheels, with 60 series tires this will look good and still be easy to
replace tire-wise if needed.

Somewhere around here I have a data sheet with the dimensions for most all
common engines from all the US manufacturers out of some magazine, if I can
find it I'll measure the V-6 and give out the dimensions to anyone interested
and also give them the Olds info the article has.  From this we should be able
to get a close idea of whether it'll work or not.

Take Care, and Happy Holidays,
Ken Snyder
Kansas City, Kansas
KS7RACING@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: 20 Dec 98 21:24:31 PST
From: bruce suess <restoman@netscape.net>
Subject: 8-track wiring?

Just got my orignal am raido with under dash 8-track
put back where it belongs. In my 70 442 convrt.
Raido works great(as far as AM goes :yuc:)problem is
whear do all the wires go out of the 8-track? Must be
10 of em.Some plugs ,some cut off. Seems like to many
to me. Are some left unused? Wiring diagrams anyone?
Seems like a stupid 8-track should not be so complicated
Maybe its just me.I know it works and would like to 
wire it in right.Any help would be great.Thanks




   

RESTOMAN

____________________________________________________________________
More than just email--Get your FREE Netscape WebMail account today at 
http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 00:25:13 EST
From: HURSTOLDZ@aol.com
Subject: Re: 68 H/O questions

Hey buddy,

I found this ad in the Sept 98 OCA mag   JWO:

1968 H/O     Factory A/C and PW  455 does not run   Great for restoration
$3750
David  770-975-0808

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 00:27:33 -0500
From: Tom Berkowitz <tjberk@netkonnect.net>
Subject: Re: This guy's looking for advice; '72 Cutlass conv.

mbloomer wrote:
> 
> What would be a good price for a car in that shape?
> I was thinking somewhere in the nieghborhood of
> $2500 since it's not a 442 but I have been known to
> be cheap.
> 
> Mike B
> mbloomer@gateway.net
> ICQ# 19113713
> 72 Cutlass S (RIP)
> 68 Cutlass Supreme
> 
> >Just picked this up in the newsgroups. Should perk some interest.
> >
> >E-mail them direct, please.
> >
> >>Have opportunity to buy '72 cutlass convertible. Viking blue/white
> >>interior. Original paint car, paint not in good shape but body beneath
> >>is good. Matching #s 350 4bbl, a/t on console. Interior dirty but
> >>complete without rips. PW, PT, no a/c.  Rallye wheels color coded to
> >>car. Solid trunk and floors.  Decent but not great top, white.  Low
> >>miles - around 40k.
> >>
> >>What is a realistic price, what is overpaying, what is the "thievery"
> >>price?
> >>
> >>Thanks.
> >>bird@javanet.com
> >
wow  what a deal if you don't want it i do  

mary

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 22:29:26 -0700
From: Oldsmagnet <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Wiring Diagram, 81 Regal/472Cad

> I guess it's underhood stuff and all.  He needs it to put a 472 Cad in a
> Regal. cool.  Olds-free, but still kida cool at least.

If his engine is still complete, my favorite method is to disconnect the 
harness
at the bulkhead connector, under the wiper motor.  The body wiring, headlights,
etc, are on one seperable part of the plug, and the majority of the engine
functions are on the other side.  With both engines removed, and the complete
harness on the buick's original, the changover should be pretty
straightforward.  Remove starter wires, and replace on cadd's starter.  Etc etc
etc.  One at a time, until it's done.  When it's done, drop in the engine (if 
it
fits complete) and just plug it in.  Piece of cake...  When space allows.
 
Running that monster, I'm guessing the computer harness will be basically
scrapped. No biggie.  Just unplug the ECM, and the check engine light will go
out.  Will lose the Lockup convertor, though...  Unless a tranny swap is
planned, as well.


Oldsmagnet - Charley Buehner @ Sidney Montana |\      |-------|   
mailto:buehner@lyrea.com To mail direct to me |/\|=|  |   |   |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner See my homepage |\ |=|  |   |   |
http://members.tripod.com/~Oldsmagnet Mine too|<||=|  |   |   |
     "I SEEK YOU!"  ICQ # 20418760            |/ |=|  |  / \  |
http://cyberglyphs.com/gbody/ G-Body ListHome |\/|=|  | / | \ |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner/listfaq.htm     |/      |___|___|

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 00:33:54 -0500
From: Tom Berkowitz <tjberk@netkonnect.net>
Subject: Re: Still looking for cowl tag codes!

Michael Maxwell wrote:
> 
> Anyone out there have cowl tag codes for 1972?
> You know, paint #'s, trim, body. Any help would be greatly
> appreciated.


the site with paint numbers for a whole bunch of years is   
http://members.aol.com/drewinva/


he has vin decoding # but at very end of website has a bunch of info on
paint colors  
you can also find the link to the capital city rockets  olds club in
northern va  drew is one of their members and is this month's member of
the month  
hope that is what you want  mary

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 00:35:25 -0500
From: Jim or Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Subject: FS: More Stuff

Happy Holidays to all, 

	Here's some more items we've recently gotten in for sale.

66-67 Underdash wiring harness (looks new, not for gauges)  $100.00
67 Plain Cutlass 4 Door door panels (blue, look N.O.S.)  $45.00 for all 4
10 Bolt 8.2 rear 3.08:1 ratio  $100.00
10 bolt 8.2 rear 3.23:1 ratio  $200.00
12 "O" Type 3.91 W-27 rear (SZ code, mint)  $2700.00
66-67 Glove Box Door (mint, blue)  $35.00
67 Cutlass/442 trunk Molding (nice chrome, one tiny nick)  $75.00
66-67 Deluxe Seat Belts (very nice, blue, left retractor cover nicked)
$135.00 set
66-67 Cutlass or 67 442 LH Fender (no rust, has spider webbing from bad
lacquer prep $175
67 Eyebrow Moldings (look N.O.S.)  $60.00 pr
66-67 Radio Antenna (fender type, plastic nut and all pieces correct)  $25.00
69 Hurst / Olds Mirrors (originals, very nice)  $650.00 pr
67 330 cu in engine (complete)  $300.00
67 Tail Light Housings  (near mint, w/lens)  $250.00 pr 		
67 LH Inner Fender (no rust)  $85.00
67 Pwr Brake Booster (good cond)  $35.00
66-67 4 Door Rear Quarters (mint, no rust, can be used as patches)  $90.00 ea
64-67 Dash A/C Bezels (mint, w/plastic adapters)  $65.00 pr

Jim Chermack
C&M Classic Parts
(757)474-0869

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 00:48:40 -0500
From: "<GJC> CC-IROC-SS" <gjcouse@francomm.com>
Subject: RE: Paint Color:Wet-Sanding/Buffing?

<Snip>
We took another piece that was painted wiht the original gallon and they
analyzed it with the computer and it acme back to the same paint we had
bought originally. So why does the new quart seem to be lighter?? THey even
mixed us up a new quart again and it still came out a little lighter when
sprayed on the car.

<GJC>

I would think that your second quart would look lighter. It might stay
looking lighter for a short period time as it is not as aged as the first
coat. I wouldn't spray any clear coat for a few days. Let that new section
of base coat air dry. It should darken up slightly making for a better match
to the first gallon of base coat. Once they look really close, spray the
clear. Right body guys? At least I hope That's the right .02¢

Have a Happy and Safe Holiday Season!
- -----Regards,

Gary J. Couse
Couse Custom
ICQ# 5209322
mailto:gjcouse@CC-IROC-SS.com

Custom Conversion Prototype:
CC-IROC-SS-#001 =  "Quincy"
http://www.CC-IROC-SS.com
Send Project Questions To:
mailto:info@CC-IROC-SS.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 00:51:24 EST
From: Gutlass66@aol.com
Subject: Bore/Stroke of 330

does anyone know what it is? if you could, email me all the specs

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 00:12:49 -0600
From: "Joe Centanni" <jacentan@crown.icongrp.com>
Subject: 87 Olds power

Anyone have suggestions for a mild 350 for an 87 Olds 442?.....It needs to
be street legal(emissions Im-240 dyno)... Has anyone else done this and
built a motor.....Need exhaust manfolds and a decent cam..Mondello Jm18
- -22?....
			Thanks,
			Jeremy

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 01:11:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Garbo162@webtv.net (Gary Lieb)
Subject: unsubscribe oldsmobile-digest

unsubscribe oldsmobile digest

------------------------------

Date: 21 Dec 98 01:26:27 PST
From: bruce suess <restoman@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: [RE: Paint Color:Wet-Sanding/Buffing?]

oldsmobile-mml-owner@chebucto.ns.ca wrote:
<Snip>
We took another piece that was painted wiht the original gallon and they
analyzed it with the computer and it acme back to the same paint we had
bought originally. So why does the new quart seem to be lighter?? THey even
mixed us up a new quart again and it still came out a little lighter when
sprayed on the car.

<GJC>

I would think that your second quart would look lighter. It might stay
looking lighter for a short period time as it is not as aged as the first
coat. I wouldn't spray any clear coat for a few days. Let that new section
of base coat air dry. It should darken up slightly making for a better match
to the first gallon of base coat. Once they look really close, spray the
clear. Right body guys? At least I hope That's the right .02¢

NO, if you let base coat sit that long then clear
it'l blow off in the first car wash.Color match
varies w-spray tecnique temp,humidity+carma.









Have a Happy and Safe Holiday Season!
- -----Regards,

Gary J. Couse
Couse Custom
ICQ# 5209322
mailto:gjcouse@CC-IROC-SS.com

Custom Conversion Prototype:
CC-IROC-SS-#001 =  "Quincy"
http://www.CC-IROC-SS.com
Send Project Questions To:
mailto:info@CC-IROC-SS.com


RESTOMAN

____________________________________________________________________
More than just email--Get your FREE Netscape WebMail account today at 
http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 23:29:54 -0700
From: Oldsmagnet <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: FWD: Paint color: Wet-sanding/buffing?

Suggestions/thoughts forwarded to/from a non list member.  Hope it sheds some
light (dark?) on the situation...    :)


There are a couple of factors that come to mind. 
To answer the question "Does wet-sanding and buffing change the paints color
(making it a little
deeper)?"  Yes it does change the effect giving it a cleaner deeper look, But 
it
shouldn't make it
lighter of darker because you are only removing Clear Coat when wet sanding  
for
buffing
purposes.  When clear coat is applied to a panel,  the more clear that is
sprayed the darker the
color gets.  This can be done with out even realizing it . There are several
variables to take into
consideration when painting. Some of the things that could have caused the
lighter appearance
could be the temperature could have been warmer causing the solvents to
evaporate Faster, the
painter could have had the gun distance further away than the previous time
longer dry times, ect. 
I scanned a sheet of variables that may help you trouble shot the problem. 
(click on
attachment). 
Other thing to first consider depend on the color you are painting; is it a
Metallic or a solid color. 
Are the materials used the same reducers or are they for different 
temperatures? 
Good Luck 
Rob Schlack 
Montana State University Northern
Automotive / Auto Body Student 
schlack@cis.msun.edu 


http://members.tripod.com/~Oldsmagnet/paint.jpg
gives some info about color matching variables.


- -- 

Oldsmagnet - Charley Buehner @ Sidney Montana |\      |-------|   
mailto:buehner@lyrea.com To mail direct to me |/\|=|  |   |   |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner See my homepage |\ |=|  |   |   |
http://members.tripod.com/~Oldsmagnet Mine too|<||=|  |   |   |
     "I SEEK YOU!"  ICQ # 20418760            |/ |=|  |  / \  |
http://cyberglyphs.com/gbody/ G-Body ListHome |\/|=|  | / | \ |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner/listfaq.htm     |/      |___|___|

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 01:21:08 -0500
From: "Erik Gertsen" <ainode@frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Tires

no way man, those cars , the way the are (weight wise), an extra ply or two
in the sidewall cant hurt, it should help cornering a bit and lange change
times. unless i am mistaken. The ply basically will help the tire from
"folding under" , and therefore keeping the weight on the tread. only spent
one year in tire store, so info may be a bit off.

Erik Gertsen

- ----------
> From: Mark <greenmm@earthlink.net>
> To: Olds List <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Subject: Tires
> Date: Sunday, December 20, 1998 3:13 AM
> 
> I have a 1975 Delta 88 and am using 235/75/R15.
> 
> My question is, what types of tires are other Olds 88 owners using?
> 
> Or any larger cars for that matter.  I was using 225/75 but upgraded to
> the 235's that also have some kind of special extra-ply in the wall. 
> Did I go a little overboard?  The car doas weigh quite a bit though
> (around 4500 lbs.)  Any opinions?
> 
> Mark MacDonald
> 1975 Delta 88 Royale Convertible
> <http://home.earthlink.net/~greenmm>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 01:27:01 -0500
From: "Erik Gertsen" <ainode@frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Once more into the breach, dear friends: You are all ignoring Karl

both subaru and honda build (or built) and offer a variable tranny. sort of
like a belt , climbs a cone and the cone is sort of like all the gears
sitting real close to each other. think of the back of a 10 speed bike, but
without the spaces. and add a belt , and less teeth. yes, i am confusing as
heck. Olds content! olds wasnt stupid enough to try that. heh.
Erik Gertsen

- ----------
> From: Trond Pedersen <trondped@c2i.net>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: SV: Once more into the breach, dear friends: You are all
ignoring Karl
> Date: Saturday, December 19, 1998 8:58 PM
> 
> > Remember hearing about a trans that is in development that uses
> > a belt drive on varying diameter pulleys. .
> 
> 
> 
> the Volvo 66 had a cvt (continius-variomatic-transmision)
> I`m talking about in the early 70 
> and i do knov that there was a Honda civic that was delewered with a cvt
to
> 
> i have driven the Volvo. (on a rental basis only)
> it wasnt mutch fun tough BUT its toppspeed backwards was greater the
> forwards :-)
> 
> 
> Trond-Jarle

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 01:24:27 -0500
From: "Erik Gertsen" <ainode@frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: No Oldsmobile POS here..

straight sixes! straight! arrggh. or a 318. arrgh.
Erik gertsen

- ----------
> From: Uncle Pete <pteubel@mediaone.net>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: No Oldsmobile POS here..
> Date: Saturday, December 19, 1998 10:50 PM
> 
> At 08:01 PM 12/19/98 -0500, you wrote:
> >----------------
> >Bad things...
> >I get beat by old ladies in V-6 Darts.
> 
> Uh.....they don't exist (but of course you knew that, right?)
> 
> - Uncle Pete
> '51 98
> '82 98 (w/403)
> '86 Ciera

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 01:12:55 -0600
From: "Peter Landowski" <PETTRIX@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Paint color: Wet-sanding/buffing?

The first time when the car was painted the base coat sat for about 20
hours. Some say this could have darkened the paint.
Pettrix@prodigy.net


- ----------
> From: Oldsmagnet <buehner@lyrea.com>
> To: Oldsmobile Mailing List <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Subject: FWD: Paint color: Wet-sanding/buffing?
> Date: Monday, December 21, 1998 12:29 AM
> 
> Suggestions/thoughts forwarded to/from a non list member.  Hope it sheds
some
> light (dark?) on the situation...    :)
> 
> 
> There are a couple of factors that come to mind. 
> To answer the question "Does wet-sanding and buffing change the paints
color
> (making it a little
> deeper)?"  Yes it does change the effect giving it a cleaner deeper look,
But it
> shouldn't make it
> lighter of darker because you are only removing Clear Coat when wet
sanding  for
> buffing
> purposes.  When clear coat is applied to a panel,  the more clear that is
> sprayed the darker the
> color gets.  This can be done with out even realizing it . There are
several
> variables to take into
> consideration when painting. Some of the things that could have caused
the
> lighter appearance
> could be the temperature could have been warmer causing the solvents to
> evaporate Faster, the
> painter could have had the gun distance further away than the previous
time
> longer dry times, ect. 
> I scanned a sheet of variables that may help you trouble shot the
problem. 
> (click on
> attachment). 
> Other thing to first consider depend on the color you are painting; is it
a
> Metallic or a solid color. 
> Are the materials used the same reducers or are they for different
temperatures? 
> Good Luck 
> Rob Schlack 
> Montana State University Northern
> Automotive / Auto Body Student 
> schlack@cis.msun.edu 
> 
> 
> http://members.tripod.com/~Oldsmagnet/paint.jpg
> gives some info about color matching variables.
> ://www.lyrea.com/~buehner/listfaq.htm     |/      |___|___|

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 00:28:35 -0700
From: "Igor T. '81 DRB 455" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Re: Tires

>no way man, those cars , the way the are (weight wise), an extra ply or two
>in the sidewall cant hurt, it should help cornering a bit and lange change
>times. unless i am mistaken. The ply basically will help the tire from
>"folding under" , and therefore keeping the weight on the tread. only spent
>one year in tire store, so info may be a bit off.

When I went to 255/60/15 BFGoodrich T/As from the stock 215/75/15 tires, the
handling/ride/etc improvment was huge.  I would recomend bigger tires to
anyone.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 00:59:10 -0700
From: "Larry Pegg" <nurelic@primenet.com>
Subject: Re: starefire GT engine swap

Hey I have a buildable (sp)  63ish aluminum block 260 V-8.  Might be just
what you need.  Can be a good performer if done right.  200 stock hp.
and quite a few parts still available from a guy back east.

- -----Original Message-----
From: KS7RACING@aol.com <KS7RACING@aol.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Sunday, December 20, 1998 10:14 PM
Subject: Re: starefire GT engine swap


>Chris/Listmembers,
>
>Here's what I can relate to this thread:
>
>My Starfire GT has the 231 B-word V-6 in it, and someday I hope to replace
it
>with an Olds 350 backed up with a 4 or 5 speed overdrive manual trans.  I
do
>know that the swap will not be easy, but I believe it's doable, and if I
find
>out otherwise I'll post it here ASAP.
>
>I also own a 79 Starfire SX that originally had a 305 C-word engine in it,
I
>believe this was the infamous "pull the engine out to change the spark
plugs"
>car GM built.  The advantage that the Olds (and B-word, for that matter)
>engines have is that after you deal with the exhaust manifolds or headers,
>there's no clearance problems on the top side of the engine, unlike the C-
>word's spark plugs which need additional clearance due to their location.
I
>know that the starter and oil filter will need room, but I think they can
be
>worked around.
>
>When I do this swap, I'll also be replacing the anemic front rotor and
brake
>system (uses failure-prone pins with "E" clips to hold the calipers on) for
>the 78-up GM RWD A/G-body spindles, a common swap among the H07 and regular
H-
>body owners.  The rear axles can be directly swapped out for ones out of
>specific S-10 pickups to get the 4 & 3/4" pattern all around so I can use
14 X
>7" SS1 wheels, with 60 series tires this will look good and still be easy
to
>replace tire-wise if needed.
>
>Somewhere around here I have a data sheet with the dimensions for most all
>common engines from all the US manufacturers out of some magazine, if I can
>find it I'll measure the V-6 and give out the dimensions to anyone
interested
>and also give them the Olds info the article has.  From this we should be
able
>to get a close idea of whether it'll work or not.
>
>Take Care, and Happy Holidays,
>Ken Snyder
>Kansas City, Kansas
>KS7RACING@aol.com
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 04:37:37 EST
From: GBodyLover@aol.com
Subject: Canadian seeking Emblems

Someone from the list was talking to me about getting the emblems off of my
79. I lost his address. If you know who I'm talking about, please email me
again. I don't have all of them, but I can get some of them. Sorry for using
the bandwidth.
John

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 06:54:28 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: UNBOUNCE: RE: Answer to 'Color sanding"

Not sure why this bounced; forwarding.

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:	michael r m <miglenda@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: RE: Answer to 'Color sanding"

No 'color sanding' will not effect the color. The expression 'color
sanding' only means that you are sanding the finished painted 'color '
rather than sanding primer. The main purpose of this is to sand out
minor flaws such as dust & or runs ect. Of coarse  it also, when done
right, is the finale, supreme way, to get that 'straight as an arrow'
look. Then, to get rid of the scratches left by sanding, you then start
the buffing procedure.  Should start with 1200 and end with 2000 grit
prior to buffing. Sorry for the 'speech' but the question you asked
sounds like you may have not done this before. Being you have the
problem of a lighter shade,  {or darker} you can really only do one of
the following. Actually three things. When you painted the area with the
'new' paint it, the panels should have been blended. You do this by
first painting about 35-40% of the panel, then adding 'blending
'solvent' to the remaining paint in the gun, about 50% ratio , and
continue to spray  the area you are repairing by about 14-18 inches. You
then add more 'blending solvent' to what is already in your gun, about
25% more, spray another 18-20 inches. Then give it some more 'blending
solvent and shoot over the complete total area that you have just
painted. It creates an 'optical allusion', that when done right. the
average eye, and most times the Pro. eye balls, can not pickup. The
Dupont paint you are using is their standard 'base coat- clear coat'
application. They call it as you said 'ChromeaBase' Of coarse you know
that any base coded area has to have the complete panel or section clear
coated when spot repairing, unlike plain acrylic enamel. When using
that. you of coarse. just stop there and then color sand and buff the
area.
Joe's answer regarding metallic is right. You can get what they call'
flip flop' due to the metallic not laying the right way. When you look
at it from different angles it changes or 'flip flops'. Bad. Do again.
>From many experiences ,some times it is cheaper and much faster to
repaint the whole car. One gallon will not be any where near enough
paint for your size car 'if' applied properly. Should have 3 coats and 1
more when color sanding, so as to allow for the paint you sand or buff
off. Tinting is a real tricky job and it can only get worse if you try
an other quart or so in trying to correct what you have. Very Very few
paint suppliers have some one who can really tint properly when trying
to match a color. The computer system that Dupont and other manufactures
of paint use is a poor second for the real thing. They claim they are
spot on but the real facts reveal that they are around 75-80% close.
Those odds are good in Vegas but a tat to much for tinting. You want to
find some one, to what they call, 'butt ' match it. That expression
implies that what ever panel the paint 'butts' up to WILL match. Its the
closest you will get. Just keep trying your local reputable body shop
painters. They would likely only charge you about $10.00 for their time.
To make sure it is right ,you MUST spray it out & clear coat a piece of
metal ect, let it dry them see how it looks next to your original job.
If not right go through the whole thing again. Like I said, many times
it is far easier to mask it out, give it scuff and shoot it again. If
you do, use at least 6 quarts. and have at least one more made up for
that unexpected 'ding' that seem to happen only after you paint your
car. 'Murphy's Law' eh. Air pressure can also give you a different
color. You should be painting with between 55-65 psi.  35-40 max. for
primers but you should crank it up if you want the paint to atomize and
cover properly. Do not feel you are alone in this tinting thing. It is
VERY common for Car manufactures to have 7-10 different shades of ONE
color in any given year. I recently  repaired & painted a small area on
a  '92 Ford F150 that had 7 different shades to choose from. Crazy
..yes. Colors change from plant to plant,  state to state, country to
country, due to different types of spray equipment, moisture, brands of
paint ect. Hope this info helps a bit.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 07:07:35 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: 8-track wiring?

Connecting one of these is fairly easy, but if some of the connectors are
missing you'll need to do some detective work. The way it works is that
all of the wires in the dash harness that currently go to your radio
(power, speakers) will now first go to wires on the 8-track. These would
normally have mating connectors on the 8-track wiring. Then there is a
second set of wires that go from the 8-track to your radio, again normally
having connectors that mate. The basic idea is that the 8-track is spliced
into the middle of the circuit so that the radio is controlled to shut
itself off when you insert a tape into the 8-track. 

If connectors are missing you'll need to trace the wires. I think they are
all color-coded to make that easier but I can't swear to that. Shouldn't
be too hard though. Good luck.

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 06:54:04 -0500
From: Uncle Pete <pteubel@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: No Oldsmobile POS here..

Nope <g>.  SLANT 6....

At 01:24 AM 12/21/98 -0500, you wrote:
>straight sixes! straight! arrggh. or a 318. arrgh.
>Erik gertsen
>
>----------
>> From: Uncle Pete <pteubel@mediaone.net>
>> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>> Subject: Re: No Oldsmobile POS here..
>> Date: Saturday, December 19, 1998 10:50 PM
>> 
>> At 08:01 PM 12/19/98 -0500, you wrote:
>> >----------------
>> >Bad things...
>> >I get beat by old ladies in V-6 Darts.
>> 
>> Uh.....they don't exist (but of course you knew that, right?)
>> 
>> - Uncle Pete
>> '51 98
>> '82 98 (w/403)
>> '86 Ciera
> 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 07:48:47 EST
From: SOMMERVLLE@aol.com
Subject: Re: starefire GT engine swap

Ken that info would help alot, the major problem now seams to be the mount
location and the engine dimensions in comparision to the ch*vy small block. I
have a set of the PAW vega/monza mounts but need comparisons before i start
this one. Thanks Chris

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 07:56:33 EST
From: SOMMERVLLE@aol.com
Subject: Re: 68 H/O questions

Vinny, thanks I'm all over it, will let you know about the outcome, Got the
pics from Dan in OH. he has 2 68's and asking 10 K for the pair and parts. the
cars are in better shape thanthe 2 FL cars, parts wise but are in the typical
northern car rust stages. One needs both front and rear floor pans and a trunk
center, not to mention both quarters, other needs quarters and trunk. They
have the majority of the parts, but he is perty well stuck on the 10K/5K per
car and no motor. still waiting on the pics from FL will let you know when I
get them. Talked to a kid in MI that has a 69 in great shape and wants 13K is
sending me pics he will take alot less said that he is selling it for tuition
$ for college. said Bill is 7K and needs to pay it.... will let you know.
Happy Holiday and Merry X-Mas , Thanks Chris

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 08:47:29 -0500
From: Gene Gilpin <ggilpin@wrallp.com>
Subject: merry xmas- was(RE: Oldsmobile POS for sale)

At 05:43 PM 12/18/98 cf wrote:
>
>A quick list of what I've stuck through
> 
>1) 2 engine fires (bad Qjet!, dang bad wiring -- (done by me...)) 
>2) 2 broken front lower A arms (each @25mph)
>3) One broken rear trailing arm going to Mom's on Xmas eve
>4) Total loss of brake fluid (Oh Sh*t)
>5) Broken fuel pump on I-5 in the middle of nowhere (Gas Station guy: "You
>want to buy a fuel pump for a Sixty Six what????")
>6) 10-20 crap outs for various reasons
>7) Stuck needle & seat which dumped enough gas in my crankcase to make a
>good bomb (bad Holley!)
>8) 4 or so small body damage accidents
> 
> 
>cf
>1966 98 convertible
>1966 Starfire coupe

- -------------------------------

Damn buddy,
I hope Santa drops a little good luck in your stocking for Christmas.

Anyhow I'm sure we all have a list of small (or not so small) misfortunes.
I've got mine.

Merry Christmas Everybody and Happy New Year 

Ed
The Omega man

'74 Omega 455/4spd
'74 Omega S 455/auto

------------------------------

Date: 21 Dec 98 07:22:02 PST
From: bruce suess <restoman@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: [Re: 8-track wiring?]

oldsmobile-mml-owner@chebucto.ns.ca wrote:

Connecting one of these is fairly easy, but if some of the connectors are
missing you'll need to do some detective work. The way it works is that
all of the wires in the dash harness that currently go to your radio
(power, speakers) will now first go to wires on the 8-track. These would
normally have mating connectors on the 8-track wiring. Then there is a
second set of wires that go from the 8-track to your radio, again normally
having connectors that mate. The basic idea is that the 8-track is spliced
into the middle of the circuit so that the radio is controlled to shut
itself off when you insert a tape into the 8-track. 

If connectors are missing you'll need to trace the wires. I think they are
all color-coded to make that easier but I can't swear to that. Shouldn't
be too hard though. Good luck.

Hey man thanks! 
makes sense now.Can't stand to listen to it.But its there
and it works. 




Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada



RESTOMAN

____________________________________________________________________
More than just email--Get your FREE Netscape WebMail account today at 
http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 10:12:30 -0600 (CST)
From: hitson@i1.net (roger hitson)
Subject: roller rockers on SB Olds?

Has anyone out there in list land put roller rockers on a small block Olds?

I would like to do this, but without machining heads as is required by some 
parts manufacturers. If you have successfully done this, please let me know 
what you have used. 

tia

roger hitson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 09:36:31 -0500
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: starefire GT engine swap

My Starfire GT has the 231 B-word V-6 in it, and someday I hope to replace
it
with an Olds 350 backed up with a 4 or 5 speed overdrive manual trans.
_________

Ken,

I've been enamored with the H07 Starfires since they were new, but since it
was Vega-based, I've always worried about the weight of an iron V-8 in the
nose (fine for a drag car, but will it turn corners?).  My own fantasy
vehicle would be a Starfire with the Monza IMSA body panels, the T5 5 spd,
and an aluminum 215 punched out to five liters using the 64 Buick 300 crank
and aluminum heads.  I know you can put larger sleeves in the block to
increase the bore, and when you're done you've got a five liter V-8 that
weights 305 lbs!  The problem (since I wanted a streetable car) was always
compliance with emissions requirements, since the 215 (at least in GM form)
was never a smog-certified motor.  Perhaps by using the EFI from a late
model Rover, one could make the motor pass mid-70s visual as well as
tailpipe requirements (the problem was never the tailpipe measurements, but
the fact that the motor was never built with smog equipment and thus could
not be legally installed in a later car, at least not in CA or VA).

Actually, maybe the right swap today would be an Aurora-based setup.  Olds
Motorsports has 5.0 liter blocks for these, and the motor can be made
smog-legal and still put out 320+ HP net (see the Shelby Series 1).  Of
course, why not go all the way and convert to a mid-motor big block with a
Toro transaxle?

Can you provide a little more info on the brake swap you mentioned?  Are
you swapping spindles, or just the calipers and mounting hardware.  It's
been a while since I worked on an H-car, so I'm having difficulty
remembering the caliper mounting config.

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 10:07:11 -0600
From: "mbloomer" <mbloomer@gateway.net>
Subject: Re: roller rockers on SB Olds?

And if you did how much did it cost?

Mike B
mbloomer@gateway.net
ICQ# 19113713
72 Cutlass S (RIP)
68 Cutlass Supreme

>Has anyone out there in list land put roller rockers on a small block Olds?
>
>I would like to do this, but without machining heads as is required by some
>parts manufacturers. If you have successfully done this, please let me know
>what you have used.
>
>tia
>
>roger hitson
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 11:12:06 -0500
From: "Semantana Chris (ONEX)" <SemantanaC@tce.com>
Subject: RE: roller rockers on SB Olds?

> Has anyone out there in list land put roller rockers on a small block
> Olds?
> 
> I would like to do this, but without machining heads as is required by
> some 
> parts manufacturers. If you have successfully done this, please let me
> know 
> what you have used. 
> 
> Most (if not all) roller rockers conversions require machining the heads
> for rocker studs, a la chevy.  I've just recently checked into this
> conversion for my W-31.  I've talked with Custom Speed from Ohio, who
> makes Harland Sharp and I've also talked with Dick Miller and Greg Rollin
> from the list.  It looks like the only kit that will fit under the stock
> valve covers is the one offered from Supercars.  Although, Dick Miller
> said one of his Harland Sharp kits will fit under the stock valve covers,
> you would just have to use a thicker than normal valve cover gasket.
> My plans are to use the kit from Supercars, I think it's also a bolt on
> kit.  And hopefully this spring I'll put the motor together.
> 
I believe the kit from Supercars is ~$360, the kit from Dick Miller is
~$440.  I can't recall the exact numbers offhand, I'd suggest checking their
catalogs or possibly webpages or you can just pick up the phone and give 'em
a call.

Chris Smetana
Terre Haute, IN
http://www.abcs.com/chris

1969 W-31
1969 4-4-2 parts car
plus others

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 08:53:25 PST
From: "jason shreve" <jasonshreve@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile POS for sale

Looks like you have found on of the little pleasures of owning an older 
car.  This is what builds character.  If I sold one of my cars every 
time it broke down I would be riding a bike by now.  I know it is a real 
pisser to break down, but look at all the time your trusty Olds got you 
from point A to B.  Hey now you have a story to tell every time you pass 
that spot.




______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 11:04:08 -0600 (CST)
From: George <cutlass@one.camd.lsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Radiator Flushing/Cleaning?

Hi Dorian, 

I brought mine to a local radiator shop. They cleaned it with their 
chemicals, pressure tested it and painted it black (even half gloss). 
Cost was 45 bucks. 
I don't know how it will perform (engine is still sitting in the living 
room) but I am positive that they did a good job. I would not try to mess 
with it myself expecially when you got to use chemicals. My friends bring 
their radiators from their projects to this shop and they are all happy 
with it. 

Hope this helps. 
George
- --------------------------------------------------------------
'68 Cuttlass S Conv. 
http://estimator.camd.lsu.edu/georg/sparetime/olds.html
- --------------------------------------------------------------

On Sat, 19 Dec 1998 DYeager535@aol.com wrote:

>      Anyone in the list cleaned a radiator out? It's out of the car, so easy
> to manipulate, and has calcium deposits. Karl suggested vinegar, and I was
> thinking CLR (Calcium Lime Rust) but don't know how well the radiator metal
> (all copper I think? 1981) would like CLR. Anyone successfully done this? Any
> certain procedures or steps to take? I would normally not get rid of a brand
> new radiator for a used one, but this a a factory oil cooler setup, and it
> doesn't appear to have ever leaked (car has sat for the last 4 years, fluid 
in
> it was still good looking) Thanks, Dorian
> 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 12:57:14 -0600
From: "Easton,Jeffrey" <jeff.easton@abbott.com>
Subject: Olds Mailing List Archive 1500 now available

  The Archive for the Olds Mailing List, Digests #1500 thru #1599 is now
available on my web site.  http:\\www.calcon.net\~easton


- -Jeff
Jeff Easton
Grayslake, ILL
1970  442  4-Speed
see the Olds archives at http:\\www.calcon.net\~easton

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 11:59:13 -0700
From: Oldsmagnet <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile POS for sale

As I sit here ponderring the effects of 14 Below on a certain Oldsmobile, and
ditching work 'cuz my car won't start, I can't help but add my two cents here. 
I won't bore you all with all the things I've had go wrong, those that follow 
my
stories know there's not enough room on the chebucto server.  Hell, they'd have
to cut it in half, and send two parts to the digest folks.  Would I ~ever~
sell/get rid of any of 'em?  Not a chance.  As said, that's a natural part of
the bonding process.  Many factors are beyond our control, but many others
become a quick learning experience to familiarize ourselves with the inner
workings of our rides.  Thanks to my travels and troubles, I feel fairly 
certain
I know the G-body Cutlass inside and out, in its entirety.  The Rockit?  Hell,
every single part on that car is there because ~I~ put it there.  Sure, at
first, when things would go wrong, I'd get testy about it, but after it's done,
you get quite a feeling of accomplishment, knowing that you actually made it
better.  Of course, it seems like there's ~always~ something going wrong... 
Seems like every time I fix something, something goes wrong on the ~other~ end
of the car, somewhere...  Murphy's Law...  

Anyway, keep the faith, I realize the original posting of this has already
ended, and is keeping the car, but trust me, the feeling of helplessness isn't 
a
feeling of loneliness ~here~...  Keep the faith! 

Oh yeah, FWIW...  In highschool, I drove an escort wagon.  The ultimate
birth-control car.....  Super reliable, only made me walk once.  And, as 
someone
jokingly pointed out, it ~does~ make a difference if there's gas in it.  I 
never
had to work on it.  Which is good, because I hated that car.  With a passion.  
I
wonder if there's any correlation here.....

Well, Merry Christmas, to all that are leaving early.  (Some of us have to work
Xmas Eve, so I'm not going far...  --  Especially with a car that won't
start.....  Oh yeah, our former salesman stole my battery charger/starter, so
all my spare cars are dead, too...  That SOB...)

- --

Oldsmagnet - Charley Buehner @ Sidney Montana |\      |-------|   
mailto:buehner@lyrea.com To mail direct to me |/\|=|  |   |   |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner See my homepage |\ |=|  |   |   |
http://members.tripod.com/~Oldsmagnet Mine too|<||=|  |   |   |
     "I SEEK YOU!"  ICQ # 20418760            |/ |=|  |  / \  |
http://cyberglyphs.com/gbody/ G-Body ListHome |\/|=|  | / | \ |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner/listfaq.htm     |/      |___|___|

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 14:14:28 -0500
From: Gene Gilpin <ggilpin@wrallp.com>
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile POS for sale

OLDSMAGNET wrote:
 Hell, every single part on that car is there because ~I~ put it there.
Sure, at
>first, when things would go wrong, I'd get testy about it, but after it's
done,
>you get quite a feeling of accomplishment, knowing that you actually made it
>better. 



- ---------

Well put.

Ed
Omega man

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 14:14:33 -0500
From: David L Wyatt <WYATT_DAVID_L@LILLY.COM>
Subject: 1980 ID

This weekend my  Oldsmonut son Michael says, "hey dad, look at the H/O!"
Well, look I did, but I have my doubts if was an H/O or not.  There was some
type of front plate (Indiana has rear plates only) that said 1980 Olds, It had
the gold over white two tone paint ala H/O, and it even had those aluminum
cast 5 spokes like I have seen on H/O's.  There were no H/O markings on the
car that I could see from the street.  There was some chrome script on the
rear pillar that looked like Cutlass Supreme.  So, all of you newer car
experts, what did I see.  A possible H/O sans decals or a Cutlass painted in
the H/O style?  I don't remember if it had T-tops or not.

TIA
Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 14:50:20 -0500
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: 1980 ID

This weekend my  Oldsmonut son Michael says, "hey dad, look at the H/O!"
Well, look I did, but I have my doubts if was an H/O or not.  There was
some
type of front plate (Indiana has rear plates only) that said 1980 Olds,
__________

Sounds like a 1980 442, which was basically a 1979 H/O without the H/O
emblems.  Unlike the 78-79 442s, which used the slope-back body, the 80s
used the Supreme body.

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 12:53:19 -0700
From: "Igor T. '81 DRB 455" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Engine REBUILD

Okay I would like to know how to be able to tell whether or not the motor is
worth the re-ring or full rebuild.  I have a 307 that ran like a charm.  It
never used oil or nothing.  The ridge is almost not there (compared to my
455 one) and it always ran smooth.  I would like to know how to determine
MYSELF whether or not the motor is worth a re-ring.  If I take it into the
shop (which I will) they will tell me that it needs crank done, etc..  I
DON'T WANT A PERFORMANCE MOTOR but just a re-ring.  Because I have a used
(but good) 455 cam I NEED to know the exact specks on the stock '81 307 cam
out of a Delta 88 Y code motor.  Thanks.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 14:57:24 -0500
From: "<GJC> CC-IROC-SS" <gjcouse@francomm.com>
Subject: Great Link page

In my cyber loafing today I came across this page with many worth while
links. There's an Olds site or 2 also... Enjoy.

http://vintagecars.miningco.com/msub8.htm


Have a Happy and Safe Holiday Season!

- -----Regards,

Gary J. Couse
Couse Custom
ICQ# 5209322
mailto:gjcouse@CC-IROC-SS.com

Custom Conversion Prototype:
CC-IROC-SS-#001 =  "Quincy"
http://www.CC-IROC-SS.com
Send Project Questions To:
mailto:info@CC-IROC-SS.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 15:03:45 EST
From: DYeager535@aol.com
Subject: Re: Engine REBUILD

In a message dated 12/21/98 11:57:44 AM Pacific Standard Time,
igor455@home.com writes:

<< Okay I would like to know how to be able to tell whether or not the motor
is
 worth the re-ring or full rebuild.  I have a 307 that ran like a charm.  It
 never used oil or nothing.  The ridge is almost not there (compared to my
 455 one) and it always ran smooth.  I would like to know how to determine
 MYSELF whether or not the motor is worth a re-ring.  If I take it into the
 shop (which I will) they will tell me that it needs crank done, etc..  I
 DON'T WANT A PERFORMANCE MOTOR but just a re-ring.  Because I have a used
 (but good) 455 cam I NEED to know the exact specks on the stock '81 307 cam
 out of a Delta 88 Y code motor.  Thanks. >>

     Igor, if I had a motor that had no problems when pulled, I would pull the
heads off, have the cylinder wear checked ( I assume you can get a pretty good
idea even with the pistons in it ) and if it was within tolerances ( anything
below .006 is ok I think, varies depending on who you talk to) I wouldn't
bother with a bore. I WOULD replace the main and rod bearings, just to be
safe. No reason to ruin the crank if you can spare the $70 or so for new
bearings (or just inspect them and see how they look) If you pull the cam,
check the bearings for wear..they seem to last longer than other bearings
though. Just my thoughts, Dorian

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 15:05:02 -0500
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: Engine REBUILD

Okay I would like to know how to be able to tell whether or not the motor
is
worth the re-ring or full rebuild.
________

The only correct way to determine this is to disassemble the motor and mike
the ID of the cylinders and the OD of the pistons to determine
piston-to-wall clearance.  Similarly, since you need to disassemble the
motor to do this, either mike the crank journal ODs and bearing IDs or use
Plastigage to determine bearing clearances.  You will, however, need to use
a mike to determine actual journal diameters, obviously.  The good news is
that if the crank has never been turned and the clearances are close, you
can get 0.001" oversize bearings to avoid having to turn the crank.  You
will likely want to polish the journals using some 600 grit wet-and-dry
sandpaper and oil as a lubricant.  The way to do this is to cut a strip of
sandpaper to fit the journal, wrap it around and wrap it several times in
turn with a length of string.  Pull back and forth on the string to polish
the journal.  The bottom line is that for the amount of disassembly you'll
have to do to even for a basic re-ring, you'd be foolish not to install new
main and rod bearings and a timing chain at the same time.  Northern Auto
Parts sells a rebuild kit using Federal Mogul parts (mains, rods, rings,
gaskets) for something like $120.

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 15:10:56 -0500
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: Engine REBUILD

...Igor, if I had a motor that had no problems when pulled, I would pull
the
heads off, have the cylinder wear checked ( I assume you can get a pretty
good
idea even with the pistons in it ) and if it was within tolerances (
anything
below .006 is ok...
_________

You're probably right about the 0.006 (it's a little loose, but not fatal),
but I'm having a little trouble seeing how you can gauge piston-to-wall
clearance without pulling the pistons and miking them in addition to the
bores.  Note that even if you don't bore the cylinders, it is mandatory
that they be honed in order for the new rings to seat.  I've actually done
this by hand with an electric drill and a hone, so you don't necessarily
need to take the block to a machine shop.  You do, however, need to ensure
that you get a 45 degree crosshatch pattern on the walls.

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 15:21:19 EST
From: DYeager535@aol.com
Subject: Re: Engine REBUILD

In a message dated 12/21/98 12:17:11 PM Pacific Standard Time,
Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM writes:

<< You're probably right about the 0.006 (it's a little loose, but not fatal),
 but I'm having a little trouble seeing how you can gauge piston-to-wall
 clearance without pulling the pistons and miking them in addition to the
 bores.  Note that even if you don't bore the cylinders, it is mandatory
 that they be honed in order for the new rings to seat.  I've actually done
 this by hand with an electric drill and a hone, so you don't necessarily
 need to take the block to a machine shop.  You do, however, need to ensure
 that you get a 45 degree crosshatch pattern on the walls.
 
 Joe Padavano
 padavano.joe@orbital.com >>

     Good points Joe..wondering why the wall to piston distance has to be
measured...does it actually change besides the wear to the walls? Just curious
to know why the pistons that came out have to be miked...what else would
change to affect the piston to wall clearance? I was talking about cylinder
taper in my posts, should have pointed that out.  Dorian

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 15:37:47 -0500
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: Engine REBUILD

Good points Joe..wondering why the wall to piston distance has to be
measured...does it actually change besides the wear to the walls? Just
curious
to know why the pistons that came out have to be miked...what else would
change to affect the piston to wall clearance? I was talking about cylinder
taper in my posts, should have pointed that out.  Dorian
_____________

Yes, unfortunately, the piston wears in addition to the walls.   The piston
skirt will ride on the wall due to the side load when the rod is at a large
angle, resulting in wear and possibly galling on the aluminum skirt.  Also,
while you are correct about miking the cylinder, and especially looking for
taper and ridge, excessive piston-to-wall clearance will lead to piston
slap and possibly accelerate the galling process.  For example, the pistons
in the 455 I'm currently rebuilding, while not very old, unfortunately had
excessive wear on the skirts, which forced me to make the decision to get
new ones.  Obviously, unless you the original diameter of the cylinder,
you'll need to get piston OD as well as bore ID to get true piston-to-wall
clearance.  My original point, however, was that even if you're just doing
a re-ring, the motor's got to come apart.  This really isn't the place to
be cutting corners, as you'd be really upset if 10,000 miles after the ring
job you spun a bearing.

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 15:55:35 -0500
From: Jim or Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Subject: Re: 1970 cutlass supreme SX

Bill

        The quote of 7,197 is correct for the 70 SX cars. There were a reported
1,025 of those cars that had the W-32 engine installed in them. I used to own
one. I have no confirmed source though of that number.

Jim Chermack

At 08:55 PM 12/20/98 , you wrote:
>Hey gang, please help Bill with his question!
>
>Kurt & Rose   wmachine@en.com   
>Centennial Feature at http://www.en.com/users/wmachine/wm.html
>'65 Jetstar 1 4-speed                   '70 Toronado GT W-34 4-sale
>'66 442 Sport Coupe 4-speed       '92 Achieva SCX W-41
>'66 442 F-85 Deluxe factory L-69  '90 Trofeo
>
>----------
>> From: Bill <cosyc@usa.net>
>> To: wmachine@en.com
>> Subject: 1970 cutlass supreme SX
>> Date: Sunday, December 20, 1998 12:59 PM
>> 
>> Wow, I really enjoyed your oldsmobile collection. I noticed that you
>> seemed to know alot about production figures. I have 1970 Cutlass Suprem
>> SX, which I purchased in Texas. I having trouble finding the production
>> figures for it. Can you help?
>> 
>> Regards
>> 
>> Bill
>> 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 16:08:10 EST
From: RICH6986@aol.com
Subject: Re: 1980 ID

If you can get the vin # that would be the best way to know exactly what it
is. if you can get the vin number either post it on the list or you can go to
this site  <A HREF="http://www.cslab.vt.edu/~jadcock/cutlass/vin.html">
http://www.cslab.vt.edu/~jadcock/cutlass/vin.html</A>        Hope this helps  
  																
Rich

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 16:34:44 EST
From: SpeedCom@aol.com
Subject: Re: Engine REBUILD

In a message dated 12/21/98
 2:<BR47:<BR02 PM Central Standard Ti, Padavano.Joe@orbital.com writes:> Yes,
unfortunately, the piston wears in addition to the walls.   


And, as no one has said directly, though your statement assumed it, you will
have to remove at least the pistons to do a ring job. Mike 'em an be sure. If
I had .006 clearance, I'd sure bore (voice of experience :-)

Additionally, I'd suggest doing the plastigage before disassembly. If
everything except the journal you are checking is buttoned up tightly, the
plastigage seems to be more consistent. Do one journal at a time and properly
torque the ones you have finished with.  This may seem compulsive, but I've
has inconsistent results with a shaft sitting in open journals while putting
on one cap at a time for the plastigage.

Finally, no one has specifically said it when mentioning honing, but I'm sure
you know to ream the ridge even for a hone/ring job???

Cheers/Carron

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 14:18:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Dean Schreuder <das1472@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Camshaft selection, 350 V8    (LONG!)

They are called "rocker pedestals".



- ---DYeager535@aol.com wrote:
>
> There is no bit of the post that started this, because I couldn't
find one.
> But having recently torn my motor down, I feel qualified to say that
if the
> motor has in ANY way been abused even slightly (racing, long oil
change gaps)
> you are going to incur some more expenses along the way. I had to
replace ALL
> the pushrods (there isn't supposed to be any bend in them at all,
mine were
> almost all slightly bent) and the rocker arms and the aluminum
"bridges" (what
> ARE those things called?) all had enough wear for me to replace them
all.
> Granted this was a 1977 motor that had already been rebuilt once,
and I don't
> know the history of, but I figure these would be problems that MAY
crop up,
> and might be best to fix before the engine is slapped back together
with a new
> cam, with perhaps more lift. Just my thoughts, Dorian
> 

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 17:28:13 -0500
From: Arthur Hoffman <oldsctls67@home.com>
Subject: Re: Once more into the breach, dear friends: You are all ignoring Karl

I used to have a moped with a variable speed belt drive...

Seriously, there are quite a few car makers who do or have manufactured
belt driven cars.  A guy down the street from me has a DAF that he owned
when he lived in Holland..that's a belt drive..

Art

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 16:34:02 -0600
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: Rear woe

Mike, Doesn't the amount of torque applied to the nut determine the
ultimate length of the crush sleeve? Agree with everything else.
Lou
PS I just like the color red.
- ----------
> From: mbloomer <mbloomer@gateway.net>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Rear woe
(snip)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 14:32:46 PST
From: "jason shreve" <jasonshreve@hotmail.com>
Subject: 71 Cutlass

Does anyone have a production number on 1971 Cutlass's.  I am talking 
Cutlass, not Supreme or S.  I don't seem to see to many of them, 
probably because tell are converted to make 442's. (Just a thought!)
Thanks


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 16:54:19 -0600
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: Rear woe

Vince, there you go, I always replace the crush sleeve, even if I just
remove the nut to change the seal, big expense, 4 bucks at most.
Lou
- ----------
> From: Knightvd@aol.com
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Rear woe

> Considering this, I think that what I'm going to do is get a new seal and
nut.
> Tighten the nut a "reasonable" amount.  (I should be OK, since I have had
some
> experience with setting up this rear.  I remember it taking a half inch
> breaker bar to crush the sleeve, and I'm definitely not going to go that
nuts
> on it.)  Apply some blue Locktite and I'll also take off the cover and
change
> the fluid.
> Thanks again,
> 
> Vince Knight

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #1679
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