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Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #1701


oldsmobile-digest      Tuesday, January 5 1999      Volume 01 : Number 1701



Re: Dual Exhaust
Re: 70 Rallye 350???
How-to identify tranny?
Re: Dual Exhaust
Re: 70 Rallye 350???
Re: Dual Exhaust
Re: How-to identify tranny?
Re: 70 Rallye 350???
Re: How-to identify tranny?
Re: How-to identify tranny?
Re: The coolant thing
Source for Speaker connectors?
Parts 
Re: Source for Speaker connectors?
delta panels
Re: Source for Speaker connectors?
subscribe oldsmobile
Building a 350
Re: Parts
Re: Propane Conversion(it's good)
Re: Fw: Source for Speaker connectors?
Eggs on my face!
Re: Christmas Present
Cats and tachs
Re: Propane Conversion(it's good)
Re: Humor: Definition of a millisecond
Re: Source for Speaker connectors?
Re: Source for Speaker connectors?
Re: Eggs on my face!
Re: Dual Exhaust
RE: Dual Exhaust
72 post cars
RE: Dual Exhaust
Re: general blather
RE: Dual Exhaust
Cops. (Was re:Dual Exhaust)
Re: 72 cutlass tire size
Re: Eggs on my face!
Hurst Hairy Olds in JWO
Re: 72 cutlass tire size
Re: Cats and tachs
Re: Hurst Hairy Olds in JWO
Re: 66 wiper wiring
Re: Cats and tachs
Re: Dual Exhaust
Re: How-to identify tranny?
Re: Cats and tachs
Donor bodies - long
Re: Dual Exhaust
Re: 72 cutlass tire size
Re: Donor bodies - long
Re: Dual Exhaust
RE: Dual Exhaust
Re: Hurst Hairy Olds in JWO
Re: Donor bodies - long
RE: Donor bodies - long
Re: Donor bodies - long
MSD and factory tachs

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 20:17:23 EST
From: CUTLASS442@aol.com
Subject: Re: Dual Exhaust

In a message dated 1/4/99 3:50:31 PM Pacific Standard Time,
mbloomer@gateway.net writes:

<< 
 > Yes, I know.  But in my opinion if a car has only one converter,
 >it's not true dual exhaust. >>


Doesn't Corvette exhaust come off the motor as 2 go into one converter and
continue to the back as dual?




>> Where is the exact blurry line between duals and 
single?  

My opinion is that single exhaust is a system consisting of only one muffler.
I.E. Camaro. Dual exhaust consists of two mufflers. I've never seen a dual cat
set up. always single cat to one or two mufflers.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 20:52:26 EST
From: Lou0118@aol.com
Subject: Re: 70 Rallye 350???

In a message dated 1/4/99 6:17:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,
mbloomer@gateway.net writes:

<< On my way home from work today, I saw something that
 confused me.  It appeared to be a 70 Rallye 350.  All I 
 know of the "Rallye" cars is that they have painted 
 bumpers (and apparently 350's too).  I only saw the 
 car from the rear and it had a 70 rear bumper.  Both 
 bumpers were painted body color (bright yellow) and 
 it had "Rallye 350" on the rear quarters at the belt line
 just in front of the bumper.  Is this similar to the W31's?
 What really struck me was that this car had vent windows
 in the doors.  I was under the impression that all Cutlass
 variants dropped the vent window after 68.  What's the
 deal?  What would this car be worth (was at a used car
 lot) and how would you identify it as authentic?
  >>

Along with the W45 Appearance Package all Rallye 350s require the following
items:

W25 Force-Air Fiberglass Hood
W35 Rear Deck Lid Air Spoiler
L74 350 cu. in High Compression Engine - 4 bbl carb
N10 Dual Exhaust System
FE2 Rallye Sport Suspension with front and rear stabilizer bars
D35 Sports Styled Outside Mirrors
N34 Custom Sport Steering Wheel

Could be 4 speed or automatic

Hopefully the car has all this.  If so get the price and let us know where it
is located if it looks good.

Lou Principe
69 442 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 21:05:04 -0500
From: "Bill B." <Pianotuner@fastservice.com>
Subject: How-to identify tranny?

The idea of pulling the tired Buick V6 out of my 82 Delta 88 is becoming
more appealing.  Is this likely to have a TH350 transmission or some
rubber band design?  Where should I look on the tranny for identifying
information?  Will this tranny bolt pattern match up with most Olds or
(Chevy) engines?  (I would prefer an Olds V8, but I do know that Chevy
V8's found their way into a number of Oldsmobiles.)  Does a book of
engine/transmission combinations for  swappers exist?  My local junk
yard is full of Oldmobiles, although  these are under snow at the
moment.

Bill Bussell
Speedway, Indiana

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 21:12:35 EST
From: GT5726@aol.com
Subject: Re: Dual Exhaust

In a message dated 1/4/99 8:02:03 PM Central Standard Time, CUTLASS442@aol.com
writes:

<< My opinion is that single exhaust is a system consisting of only one
muffler.
 I.E. Camaro. Dual exhaust consists of two mufflers. I've never seen a dual
cat
 set up. always single cat to one or two mufflers.
  >>
    Look underneath a Ford F-150 Lightning...true duals in every sense of the
word.

Collyn Eastham
65 442
65 Cutlass

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 21:32:59 -0500
From: Don Sowers <dstaxpro@lex.infi.net>
Subject: Re: 70 Rallye 350???

Greg Rollin wrote:
> 
> Mike Rothe. wrote:
> >
> > Well, sorta.  70 was the last year for the 2 door post cars.
> 
> Well, kinda sorta.  Although a 2 door Sport Coupe was
> not available in 1971, they were resurrected for 1972.
> ;-)

Is this what they call a definite maybe?  Nothing is for sure back in
the 60s-70s if you had the pull, the money and the correct option codes.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 21:25:14 EST
From: DYeager535@aol.com
Subject: Re: Dual Exhaust

In a message dated 1/4/99 6:02:10 PM Pacific Standard Time, CUTLASS442@aol.com
writes:

<< Doesn't Corvette exhaust come off the motor as 2 go into one converter and
 continue to the back as dua >>
 

     IMO opinion, it's single exhaust. I know there is more to it than just
two pipes, like flow, backpressure, and all, but what is the point of going
through all the work to make two pipes, EXCEPT in one spot? A pipe can only
flow at the rate its smallest constriction allows. Dual 2" into a 3" cat is
restrictive. Whats the point, besides saving the manufacturer $50 a copy? (and
LOOKING cool) Dorian

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 21:45:52 -0800
From: Greg Pruett <gregp@intrlink.com>
Subject: Re: How-to identify tranny?

Bill B. wrote:
> 
> The idea of pulling the tired Buick V6 out of my 82 Delta 88 is becoming
> more appealing.  Is this likely to have a TH350 transmission or some
> rubber band design?

It's probably a TH350.  A TH350 has a pan about 12" square with one of
the rear corners beveled off.   It could be a TH200 which is weak and
should be avoided.  The TH200 pan is smaller and closer to square.  The
quickest way to tell a TH200 is that it has "metric" stamped in the pan.

>  Will this tranny bolt pattern match up with most Olds or
> (Chevy) engines?  

It will bolt to an Olds.  Buick V6 and V8s along with Olds, Pontiac and
Caddy V8s all have the same bolt pattern.  Chevy V6 and V8s have their
own bolt pattern.  Some trannys will bolt to either .  Most TH200s and
TH2004Rs are dual bolt pattern.  There are some dual pattern TH350s but
I've heard they're not very common.  

Hope I was of some help.

Greg Pruett
72 Vista Cruiser 
67 Cutlass Supreme
80 Cutlass Calais

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 21:39:35 EST
From: TheBlue67@aol.com
Subject: Re: 70 Rallye 350???

 i have a quick Q.......... any production numbers on 4-speed rallye's??? i
know of one for sale around me...... my dad is interested in it even though
it's rusted out real bad.

Thanks

Brent
1967 Cutlass Convertible

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 21:57:53 -0500
From: "Frederick Nissen" <FSNissen@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: How-to identify tranny?

Another easy way to tell the difference between a TH 200 and a TH 350
without crawling under the car is to look for a vacuum line running to the
trans modulator.  TH 350 has it, TH 200 does not.  A fair number of the V6
cars got the TH 350.  The lighter V6 saved enough weight that the heavier
trans did not push the car up a weight class.
Regards,
Fred
- -----Original Message-----
From: Greg Pruett <gregp@intrlink.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Monday, January 04, 1999 9:45 PM
Subject: Re: How-to identify tranny?


>Bill B. wrote:
>>
>> The idea of pulling the tired Buick V6 out of my 82 Delta 88 is becoming
>> more appealing.  Is this likely to have a TH350 transmission or some
>> rubber band design?
>
>It's probably a TH350.  A TH350 has a pan about 12" square with one of
>the rear corners beveled off.   It could be a TH200 which is weak and
>should be avoided.  The TH200 pan is smaller and closer to square.  The
>quickest way to tell a TH200 is that it has "metric" stamped in the pan.
>
>>  Will this tranny bolt pattern match up with most Olds or
>> (Chevy) engines?
>
>It will bolt to an Olds.  Buick V6 and V8s along with Olds, Pontiac and
>Caddy V8s all have the same bolt pattern.  Chevy V6 and V8s have their
>own bolt pattern.  Some trannys will bolt to either .  Most TH200s and
>TH2004Rs are dual bolt pattern.  There are some dual pattern TH350s but
>I've heard they're not very common.
>
>Hope I was of some help.
>
>Greg Pruett
>72 Vista Cruiser
>67 Cutlass Supreme
>80 Cutlass Calais

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 22:09:36 -0500
From: "Frederick Nissen" <FSNissen@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: How-to identify tranny?

>  Will this tranny bolt pattern match up with most Olds or
>(Chevy) engines?

Bill, the bolt pattern of the trans used with the "Busix" will match up to
an Olds or Buick V8, not a Chevy. Just make sure you get the accessory
brackets with the replacement engine if you are swapping in an Olds, as the
Olds and Buick accessory locations and mountings differ.
Regards,
Fred

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 04:11:08 -0600
From: Kerry Kroger <kerryk@cwix.com>
Subject: Re: The coolant thing

this statement is absolutely correct that is precisely the reason your
heater wont work as well without a stat coolant doesnt get hot enough
if you go with a higher temp stat the heat gets transferred to the coolant
and the coolant attains a higher temp thus cooling the surrounding metal
that waythe engine stays cooler and the coolant gets to do its job and the
heater works better see ya....KK
- -----Original Message-----
From: Onebil2mny@aol.com <Onebil2mny@aol.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Monday, January 04, 1999 6:49 PM
Subject: The coolant thing


>Ok, here is my reasons for a lack of thermostat causing the engine to get
too
>hot without the operator knowing it.   When coolant is passing through an
>engine too fast it will not pbsorb heat (you don't cool an engine, you heat
>coolant, which heats air).  This causes the metal to get too hot, which
does
>eventually cause the coolant that touches the metal to become steem.  This
>steam actually insulates (it's an air pocket) the metal from the coolant.
>This actually compounds the problem.  The radiator is more then capable of
>removing the little heat generated by this steam action, so the temp guage
>never reads the true operating temp.
>
>
>Bill K

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 03:29:46 GMT
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Source for Speaker connectors?

Does anyone know of a source for connectors or adapters to plug aftermarket
speakers into the stock-style late-70's GM 2-spade speaker wiring plugs? I'd
like to plug in some aftermarket Jensens without hatcheting the factory
wiring. Charlie B, you know a source?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 23:40:58 -0500
From: "Robert Schinkel" <docbob@caninet.com>
Subject: Parts 

Sorry for posting this to open list but....
Someone was interested in my mint 68 reverse light lens.  At the time I was
unable to located it, I have found it now.  If you are still interested
contact me.

Thanks

Robert Schinkel   docbob@caninet.com
Niagara Falls,    Canada   905-357-4454

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 23:36:57 -0500
From: Jeff Mullenix <muxx@exis.net>
Subject: Re: Source for Speaker connectors?

At 03:29 AM 1/5/1999 GMT, you wrote:
>Does anyone know of a source for connectors or adapters to plug aftermarket
>speakers into the stock-style late-70's GM 2-spade speaker wiring plugs? I'd
>like to plug in some aftermarket Jensens without hatcheting the factory
>wiring. Charlie B, you know a source?


Look at "Crutchfield".  (www.crutchfield.com)  They in my mind are the best
and at excellent prices.  If you by speakers they give you the connectors
free.  No cutting of original wires.  So all you have to do is just
connect, turn up the sound and start bobbin that head and enjoy the awsome
music.  You can get factory sized speakers for the old cars also.  No
cutting up your car. 
>
Jeff 

70 4spd
72 Cutlass Supreme
85 442
Chesapeake, Va. 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 23:46:06 -0500
From: "Erik Gertsen" <ainode@frontiernet.net>
Subject: delta panels

ok this time ill do it right...  looking for body panels for a 4 door delta
88. yes i know this may sound near impossible, but im hoping all the same.
any quarter panels , nos or good used, repro, i have no problems with any of
those. im coming out of my really tight money situation and now i am able to
keep the car.

INFO:

1973    Delta 88     4-door    w/455 (auto trans)



Any leads will be appreicated. thanks!
Erik Gertsen
ainode@frontiernet.net

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 23:47:14 -0500
From: Jeff Mullenix <muxx@exis.net>
Subject: Re: Source for Speaker connectors?

At 03:29 AM 1/5/1999 GMT, you wrote:
>Does anyone know of a source for connectors or adapters to plug aftermarket
>speakers into the stock-style late-70's GM 2-spade speaker wiring plugs? I'd
>like to plug in some aftermarket Jensens without hatcheting the factory
>wiring. Charlie B, you know a source?
>

Sorry, but to finish, yes you can buy the plugs seperate if you wish.  You
can call them at 1-800-955-3000 and let them know what you have and what
you want, then walla, connectors just for you and what you need them for.

Jeff
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 00:12:47 EST
From: Gutlass66@aol.com
Subject: subscribe oldsmobile

subscribe oldsmobile

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 23:31:47 -0600
From: "Joe Centanni" <jacentan@crown.icongrp.com>
Subject: Building a 350

Anyone see the new Muscle Car Review w/ the 72 H/O poster its sweet get one
while u can...How does Linda Vaughn still look like that?
Oh well my two cents....still looking for info on a decent 350 buildup for
an 87 442
					Later 
					Jeremy 87 442

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 00:46:52 EST
From: HURSTOLDZ@aol.com
Subject: Re: Parts

I would like to find 68 442 tail light lenses.

Fusick has them  but without the chrome trim.



Any input??????


Thanks


Vinny
62 Starfire
68 Hurst/Olds

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 22:49:52 -0700
From: "Igor T. '81 DRB 455" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Re: Propane Conversion(it's good)

I HAVE a full-propane conversion on my '81 307 Regency so I have full and
total experience with using it.  Used it for two winters now in Calgary,
Alberta where it gets REAALLLY cold (-40 Celcius).  So, this is what I have
to say:


>Is it costly or difficult to convert over to propane?


Not really, at least not up here in Canada.  You can get some parts used
(like a gas tank) for cheap and still in great shape.

>Is there any emissions legalities?


Depends on where you live.  As far as I know many places welcome propane
because it is much cleaner.  From what I have heard your propance fired
motor can pass any emmissions with no emmissions equipment.

>What is performance like?


Depends on the motor.  If you convert a low compression 307 (like mine) into
propane leaving motor all stock then you will likely loose some power (lack
of good secondaries) but you had none ot begin with so it is not a big deal.
It really does not loose much power.
If you are rebuilding a motor, on the other hand, you can get great power
and economy with it.  Remeber that propane is a high-octane fuel so
high-compression is great.  Rebuild a 350 or a 455 using high compression
pistons and drop it into a newer, smoger car and you will have more power.
There is good books on propane conversions and performance. Rember that you
can run a decet timing curve with high-compression.

>How hard is it to get fuel?


Here in western Canada it is no problem at all.


>Is it safe in a accident?


Depneds on your system.  I would say that it is pretty good, not much more
dangerous then gas.  A gas tank can blow up as well (look at the Chevy
Truck,recall from a little while ago)

>Does the ECM or Cat Converter need to be installed still?


Nope.  You can run any exhaust you want.  Cat Converter removal is a good
idea to get more heat away from the engine heads.

>I pass a propane company on my way to work (you saw it on TV last summer on
>fire, in Walworth, WI, it is better now....) but will they sell to
>automobiles?  I don't want to tote 20 lbs cyl of propane to "fill" my tank!


I am sure that you can find gas on a stations somewhere.  There is no point
to fill it 20 lbs at a time.

>I have heard spark plugs last virtually forever and cold start issues are
>non existant.  Is this true?


Yes, plugs last forever.  Same goes for bearings, piston rings, cylinder
bore wear, etc.  Basically the entire motor last forever except that you may
need to get hardened exhaust seats.  (on a low comp 307 you can get away
without.  My motor has 160,000 miles + and it litterarly runs like new.  No
hard seats)
I change the oil at approx. 10,000 miles and no problem, down only by 1/2
quart (after 10,000 miles on a 160,000 mile engine).

As far as cold weather starts, I would have to disagree that it is a
problem.  First, I think that it depends on how good the system is.  As far
as comparing them to fork lifts systems, I don't think you really can.  I
have no knowledge with those things so don't take my seriously.  Doing
reaserch on propane systems while building my 455 I read that dual fuel
conversions are not nearly as good as a straight fuel conversion.  If you
have a carb and engine setup that can run on two fuels of different nature,
it is bound to be a compromise.  This is my experience with propane in my
Regency:

NO PROBLEM starts even after sitting for three days at -35 C and NO plug.

Awesome driveability.  Since propane is already in gas form it does not need
a hot intake to vaporize it.  I have NEVER EVER had this car stall,
hesitate, stumble or anything like that EVER.  Beats the HELL out of a
carburetor.

21 Cents per litre Vs 50 for Regular Fuel.  I get about 22 MPG on propane
with my Regency, so you do the math.  Propane is supposed to burn a little
more then gas and I agree but not more then 15-20 % in my experience.

I simply love the fuel.  I would love to get my 455 converter but it is a
little more expensive then a new Q-jet carb.  SO for now as I love the 4-bbl
I will stick with a Q-jet until I get a good, used propane system.  I need
supreme for my high-compression 455 so it is 60 cents per litre Vs. 21.  In
my opinion, the only draw-back is  that it is not a good idea to keep the
car in a garage, especially heated (insurance prohibits).

And lastly, ALL taxis here in Calgary use propane.  They drive every day and
put tons of miles on it.  They are not all dumb.  Believe it or  not I have
a friend with a '85 Delta that has 680,000 kms on ORIGINAL 307 (ex. taxi),
it still runs only after one timing chain change.  All service was on
propane only.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 00:55:31 -0500
From: dk0009@mail.pratt.lib.md.us (Douglas Kitchener)
Subject: Re: Fw: Source for Speaker connectors?

Bob, Greg, or Fred, pls post this to the Olds list just to keep them up to 
speed, thanks-

Bob, Fred Nissen forwarded this to me... let me make sure I have it 
straight... 
all you need to do is come off the back of the factory radio from, for 
example, 
the Toro or the SX, and into the Jensens, right?  That's a standard 1/4" tab 
connector, should be available in a blister pak from any chain auto parts 
store 
(Pep boys, Autozone, etc) or even a jobber... you don't need to use the molded 
connector ala car wiring harness... just plug up each individual wire... are 
there harnesses on the Jensens, and if so do they have connectors?  I'd need 
to 
know what kinda connectors are on the Jensens... this should be no big deal... 
get back to me with more details/if you have questions... I have a bunch of 
the 
female crimp connectors around, would be glad to send you some, but probably 
would be quicker and easier for you to get 'em up there... unless we need to 
have a TERT deployment for this!  :)

Regards,

Doug

> Doug,
> Thought you might have some ideas about this.
> Regards,
> Fred
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Date: Monday, January 04, 1999 10:31 PM
> Subject: Source for Speaker connectors?
> 
> 
> >Does anyone know of a source for connectors or adapters to plug aftermarket
> >speakers into the stock-style late-70's GM 2-spade speaker wiring plugs?
> I'd
> >like to plug in some aftermarket Jensens without hatcheting the factory
> >wiring. Charlie B, you know a source?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 21:57:19 -0800
From: Greg Rollin <supercars@transport.com>
Subject: Eggs on my face!

- ----------
Well, kinda sorta.  Although a 2 door Sport Coupe was 
not available in 1971, they were resurrected for 1972.   
;-)
- ----------

Well, I stand to correct myself.  I have erred.
Earlier, I had (incorrectly) posted that there were
no 1971 two door Sport Coupes produced.  While
this IS true for the 71 4-4-2's, there was in
fact a 1971 two door Sport Coupe.  It was
available as part of the Cutlass S model
line.  I profusely apologize for my error.  
Excuse me now, for I've got to go as the red
of embarrassment on my face is causing these
eggs to fry.    

 
Greg Rollin
Supercars Unlimited (Where Cutlass/4-4-2 is ALL we do!)
503-244-8249
http://www.supercarsunlimited.com
E-mail: supercars@transport.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 12:28:12 -0600
From: Brian Ammons <b_ammons@mail.utexas.edu>
Subject: Re: Christmas Present

I just wish I'd gone to a Bowl Game instead of a mugging...

At 03:29 PM 1/4/99 , you wrote:
>	Brian Ammons wrote:
>
>	<snip>
>
>	Just returned from my Worldwide Texas Tour...me and a buddy took
>the Delta from Houston to Dallas, where she successfully transported us
>to Deep Ellum on New Year's Eve, then to the Cotten Bowl at 10 o'clock
>in the F#*KING
>	MORNING on New Year's Day,   <snip>
>
>	Ouch!  Brian, please don't say the words "Cotton Bowl" in
>public.  At least I didn't waste my time making the trip.  It was bad
>enough having to suffer through it watching it on the tube...
>
>	Later,
>
>Doug Newman         OCA # 30311
>Columbus, MS         1987 442
>
>http://www.442.com/newman.html               1987 442
>http://www.442.com/newmantape.html        Centennial Tape Info.
>	
> 
- -------------------------------------------------------------
 Brian Ammons		 Universal Internet # (ICQ) - 3585737
 MIS Major - UT Austin	 b_ammons@mail.utexas.edu
 2903 Breeze Terrace	 http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~ammons/
 Austin, TX 78722	Home :	(512) 236-8088 (Austin)
 1984 Oldsmobile		(713) 776-2110 (Houston)
	Delta 88	Pager:	(512) 483-8056
 	  4-door		(713) 318-5938	
- -------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 00:52:04 -0600
From: "Joe Centanni" <jacentan@crown.icongrp.com>
Subject: Cats and tachs

Speaking of CC's the latest study is that they may be bad for the
environment*L*...G'ment bullshit!...They now possibly think that what they
put out is worse than what goes into them and yes this is true but it is a
study at this point any future references will gladly be shared w/ u when I
get them.........Anyone else have a problem w/ an MSD and tha tach
funcioning correctly, mine reads high and flutters and I know its not he
6/8 switch on the back this only happened afgter the MSD and if I hook the
tack directly to the MSD box the car won't start (they told me to)
				Later
				Jeremy 87 442

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 01:14:24 -0600
From: "mbloomer" <mbloomer@gateway.net>
Subject: Re: Propane Conversion(it's good)

Just thought I would add a bit here.  ~Vaugely~ remember several
years back watching a drag race on TV.  They had a sideline of a
guy running a propane door slammer.  All I basically remember 
was it was a full tube frame race car, tunnel ram, big block.  I think
he was in a bracket class,  something like super pro, and was 
running in the 8's.  Big thing they kept mentioning was how cheap
he ran the car for.  Avg price per run was something like a quarter
of a conventional car (race gas being so d@mn expensive and all)
and that he never touched his motor all season long.  Wasn't an 
Olds so I didn't pay a whole lot of attention.  

Mike B
mbloomer@gateway.net
ICQ# 19113713
72 Cutlass S (RIP)
68 Cutlass Supreme
 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 01:05:53 -0700
From: Oldsmagnet <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Re: Humor: Definition of a millisecond

> What's the definition of a millisecond?
> 
> The time between when the light goes green and the guy behind you honks  (at
> your Olds...)

OR.....

The amount of time transpired between the ~opposite~ lights turning red, and
~me~ mashing on the gas to smoke that camaro next to me ;)

- -- 

Oldsmagnet - Charley Buehner @ Sidney Montana |\      |-------|   
mailto:buehner@lyrea.com To mail direct to me |/\|=|  |   |   |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner See my homepage |\ |=|  |   |   |
http://members.tripod.com/~Oldsmagnet Mine too|<||=|  |   |   |
     "I SEEK YOU!"  ICQ # 20418760            |/ |=|  |  / \  |
http://cyberglyphs.com/gbody/ G-Body ListHome |\/|=|  | / | \ |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner/listfaq.htm     |/      |___|___|

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 01:32:35 -0700
From: "Igor T. '81 DRB 455" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Re: Source for Speaker connectors?

>Does anyone know of a source for connectors or adapters to plug aftermarket
>speakers into the stock-style late-70's GM 2-spade speaker wiring plugs?
I'd
>like to plug in some aftermarket Jensens without hatcheting the factory
>wiring. Charlie B, you know a source?


I would like to know the source as well.  But if you don't run into the any
or if it is expensive/pain in the rear, just get a old set of spks., rip off
their connectors and make your own.  This is what we did on my friends '86
Cutlass Salon when we installed his new PANASONIC CD player and some
aftermarket spks.  So far it works great, and you have nothing to lose.

Igor Todorovic, UofC
1981 Delta 88 (455/th400/3.23 posi)
1981 98 Regency (307/2004R/propane)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 01:52:01 -0700
From: Oldsmagnet <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Re: Source for Speaker connectors?

> I'd
> >like to plug in some aftermarket Jensens without hatcheting the factory
> >wiring. Charlie B, you know a source?
 
I ~think~ Metra carries these, as does Scosche, Ampersand, and probably any
other audio wiring supplier.  Your local car audio installer should be able to
order 'em.  I'll try to look 'em up tomorrow (If I get a chance, and
remember...  It's inventory day #2, first part of day spent counting, cleaning,
and plugging numbers...  Second part of day likely spent getting drunk...  Who
says work is all-bad ;)  Well, sounds like ~some~ form of office party,
anyhow...  I'll try to do some digging, though.  We don't stock any of those,
but I know Metra (a source that we ~do~ stock) carries plugs for adapting other
speaker wires, so GM probably isn't too far off, I'd imagine.  Also, the 80's
style stereo harness uses four plugs, one for main power (lights, ignition, and
ground) one for front speakers, one for back speakers, and a fourth plug used
for the memory (+12V constant)  That plug has a second lead for another
illumination source, but is usually only used for the memory.  I usually 
discard
that plug, and just wire it direct for that plug, sometimes out of convenience
alone, or other times since that harness does not exist in all cars that use
that wiring kit.  It just so happens that plug is the same critter used for the
speakers.  (It plugs right into the factory speaker harness on the 80's 
Cutlass,
and models of that range of years.  Now, there's a chance many other installers
take this practice, too...  Maybe.  You may ask you're local installer if they
have any of those plugs lying around, they're the same critter.  

I'll try to find a part number, anyways...

- -- 

Oldsmagnet - Charley Buehner @ Sidney Montana |\      |-------|   
mailto:buehner@lyrea.com To mail direct to me |/\|=|  |   |   |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner See my homepage |\ |=|  |   |   |
http://members.tripod.com/~Oldsmagnet Mine too|<||=|  |   |   |
     "I SEEK YOU!"  ICQ # 20418760            |/ |=|  |  / \  |
http://cyberglyphs.com/gbody/ G-Body ListHome |\/|=|  | / | \ |
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner/listfaq.htm     |/      |___|___|

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 05:39:05 -0500
From: "Mike Rothe." <hurstolds@xtalwind.net>
Subject: Re: Eggs on my face!

> Well, I stand to correct myself.  I have erred.
> Earlier, I had (incorrectly) posted that there were
> no 1971 two door Sport Coupes produced.  While
> this IS true for the 71 4-4-2's, there was in
> fact a 1971 two door Sport Coupe.  It was
> available as part of the Cutlass S model
> line. 

Greg, don't feel beat up or outta place.  I mostly rely on memory and it
is seemingly failing me more and more every day.
I was just thinking of the 442 line only myself.  But I had never seen a
72 442 post, or at least can't remember seeing one.  But Jim Chermack
says he had one, so that's good enough for me.  I'm sure they're out
there, but they gotta be scarce.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 06:53:42 -0500
From: "B. Vosburgh" <bob442@svic.net>
Subject: Re: Dual Exhaust

does any one personaly know of any one going to jail or paying a healthy
fine for this horrible crime           butch  68   442  post

Onebil2mny@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 1/4/1999 5:13:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> slater442w30@hotmail.com writes:
>
> << Go to a different shop that doesn't care about catalytic bullcrap. >>
>
> but what if they care about that huge fine, and the jail time??
>
> Bill K

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 08:54:03 -0500 
From: "Semantana Chris (ONEX)" <SemantanaC@tce.com>
Subject: RE: Dual Exhaust

> << My opinion is that single exhaust is a system consisting of only one
> muffler.
>  I.E. Camaro. Dual exhaust consists of two mufflers. I've never seen a
> dual
> cat
>  set up. always single cat to one or two mufflers.
>   >>
>     Look underneath a Ford F-150 Lightning...true duals in every sense of
> the
> word.
> 
> 
Never seen a dual cat setup???  Wow.  Guess you've never seen a 5.0L
Mustang.  (ya I know, most people on the list only see headlights of these
cars)  Anyway, they have dual cat setups, actually they have 4 cats, 2 on
each side of the exhaust system.

Chris Smetana
Terre Haute, IN
http://www.abcs.com/chris

1969 W-31
1969 4-4-2 parts car
plus others

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:07:06 -0500 
From: "Semantana Chris (ONEX)" <SemantanaC@tce.com>
Subject: 72 post cars

> I was just thinking of the 442 line only myself.  But I had never seen a
> 72 442 post, or at least can't remember seeing one.  But Jim Chermack
> says he had one, so that's good enough for me.  I'm sure they're out
> there, but they gotta be scarce.
> 
Everyone, there is a 72 4-4-2 W-30 post on 442.com in the virtual owners
section.  I believe it is owned by James ??something, don't remember last
name.  But the description listed the VIN and said it was 1 of 19

Chris Smetana
Terre Haute, IN
http://www.abcs.com/chris

1969 W-31
1969 4-4-2 parts car
plus others

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 09:11:53 -0500
From: David L Wyatt <WYATT_DAVID_L@LILLY.COM>
Subject: RE: Dual Exhaust

>Never seen a dual cat setup???  Wow.  Guess you've never seen a 5.0L
Since you brought the blue oval into the string.....
I once owned a 76 full size f*rd wagon AKA the Queen Mary.  It had single
exhaust with dual converters.  The Y was after the converters.  This was a
fairly common setup from f*rd as I had the same set up on a rustangII of the
same year.  But back to the wagon, I wanted to put duals on it so I went to
the local parts store to look up pipes.  They offered a dual set up for a 460
powered wagon, but it only used a single cat.  True duals with a cat on one
pipe!  I had a 351 with 2 cats going into a Y on my single system.  It did not
make sense to me why I had two cats and the 460 models used one on one side
and none on the other.  Needless to say I did not buy the pipes as they would
not work for me.  I had a set bent up for far less money from the cats (empty
shells) back.

Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 06:23:26 PST
From: "jason shreve" <jasonshreve@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: general blather

What is an Olds GT??????


>	Are there any Olds G body owners here?.......83 - 88 H/O's, 442's.
>GT's?.......


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:31:19 -0500 
From: "Semantana Chris (ONEX)" <SemantanaC@tce.com>
Subject: RE: Dual Exhaust

> << Doesn't Corvette exhaust come off the motor as 2 go into one converter
> and
>  continue to the back as dua >>
>  
> 
>      IMO opinion, it's single exhaust. I know there is more to it than
> just
> two pipes, like flow, backpressure, and all, but what is the point of
> going
> through all the work to make two pipes, EXCEPT in one spot? A pipe can
> only
> flow at the rate its smallest constriction allows. Dual 2" into a 3" cat
> is
> 
Aren't some vettes two pipes into one pipe then into two mufflers and other
vettes two pipes into then what visually appears from the outside as one
pipe, but in reality on the inside is two pipes, then into two mufflers.
I'm not sure if the second description is factory or not, but I know I've
seen this exhaust setup offered from Mid-America or some other places.

Chris Smetana
Terre Haute, IN
http://www.abcs.com/chris

1969 W-31
1969 4-4-2 parts car
plus others

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 06:35:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Rock Man <rockman20@yahoo.com>
Subject: Cops. (Was re:Dual Exhaust)

- ---Martin Thomas-WLTM07 <Thomas_Martin-WLTM07@css.mot.com> wrote:
>
> Not all though, only specifically optioned cars.  Like the Formula
with the
> WS6 option, or SS Z28, with the Z rated tires (easily ID with the
150 mph
> speedo for 93 up).  This is specific option, not all V8 cars get it.
 And it
> is illegal to convert a car to it, because it did not come that way,
but
> then again, who will check that far......
> 
> Tom
> 
> Thomas Martin
> 80 Turbo Trans AM
> 85 Cutlass Supreme Rocket 350 CCC
> 91 Bonneville LE 3800
- ------------------------------------------------

Just as a tidbit here, be carful about that "Who will check that
far...." I have a friend with a 1986 5.0L. He has that thing decked
out. He uses it for strip racing, but he also drives it on the street.
He has it nitros equipped as well. Well, in North Dakota, you can
legally drive with a NOS bottle in the trunk as long as you aren't
using it. One night 3 cops pulled him over at the same time because
they accused him of using the nitrous. He was doing 30 MPH on Main
Ave!!!!!! Anyways, they searched his car inside and out. They were
checking everything including the duals that he had on it. So, if cops
are like anything from around here be careful! If you drive a nice
muscle car, you will get picked on! It's been proven by ever gear head
in Fargo......including me.

Del
==
Rock-Man's Page http://www.angelfire.com/nd/RockMan
rockman20@yahoo.com
1986 Honda Accord DX
1983 Honda Big Red 3-wheeler
1981 John Deer Snowmobile
197? Massey Ferguson Snowmobile
1969 Olds Cutlass "S"
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:37:33 -0500
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: 72 cutlass tire size

>I ran 85 Monte Carlo SS steel 15x7 rims (same 5 spokes that
>came on a bunch of S-10's and such, silver w/ black around
>the petagon shape holes) with 295/50 and it worked fine...
________

Uh, guys (and gals)...the original question concerned the max tire size
that could fit on a 72 Cutlasss.  While I'm sure the above info is of
interest to G-body Monte owners (and possibly other G-bodies, but I don't
know how similar the wheel opening in the fender is), I don't really think
it answers the original question...

I'm certainly not trying to denigrate anyone's experience here, as this
information transfer is the whole reason for the list, but sometimes we
tend to get off into the weeds just a bit.

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:49:30 -0500
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: Eggs on my face!

I was just thinking of the 442 line only myself.  But I had never seen a
72 442 post, or at least can't remember seeing one.
________

The reason you could get a 442 Sport Coupe in 72 was the demotion of the
442 back to an option package on the Cutlass series.  I recall the
Oldsmobile ad in Hot Rod in 72 that showed the four models on which the 442
option was available:  The Cutlass Sport Coupe, the Cutlass Holiday Coupe,
the Cutlass S Holiday Coupe, and the Supreme Convert.  Of course, all 442
engine options (X-code W-30 included) were available on all four models.
(Yes, I'm old enough that I actually subscribed to Hot Rod back in '72 -
still have those issues, too.)

Joe (over 40) Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:56:47 -0500 
From: "Semantana Chris (ONEX)" <SemantanaC@tce.com>
Subject: Hurst Hairy Olds in JWO

Got my JWO yesterday and right smack dab on the cover is the Hurst Hairy
Olds smokin' the hydes.  Good article, now I don't know too much about this
car, but it did state that the car is either a) hidden away somewhere or b)
Doc Watson cut it up and buried it in an undisclosed location.
Get out your shovels and let the hunt begin :)

Chris Smetana
Terre Haute, IN
http://www.abcs.com/chris

1969 W-31
1969 4-4-2 parts car
plus others

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:18:31 -0600
From: "mbloomer" <mbloomer@gateway.net>
Subject: Re: 72 cutlass tire size

Uh, Joe the G body rims were on my 72 Cutlass (scanning pics 
soon), I guess I didn't make that clear.  I was trying to point out 
that part of the nice thing about GM interchangeability is common
backspacing, where rims from everything from a G body to old
vette rally's will fit a 72 A body.  Saves some money over those
aftermarket rims.

Mike B
mbloomer@gateway.net
ICQ# 19113713
72 Cutlass S (RIP)
68 Cutlass Supreme

>>I ran 85 Monte Carlo SS steel 15x7 rims (same 5 spokes that
>>came on a bunch of S-10's and such, silver w/ black around
>>the petagon shape holes) with 295/50 and it worked fine...
>________
>
>Uh, guys (and gals)...the original question concerned the max tire size
>that could fit on a 72 Cutlasss.  While I'm sure the above info is of
>interest to G-body Monte owners (and possibly other G-bodies, but I don't
>know how similar the wheel opening in the fender is), I don't really think
>it answers the original question...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:26:56 -0500
From: "Edward Binnix" <comid@jellico.com>
Subject: Re: Cats and tachs

MSD units and Tachs are notorious for not getting along. Summit sell an
adapter that makes your tack and MSD box play nice together. For all, when
you buy a tach, MAKE SURE that it is specifically compatible with your
ignition. Generally, MSD is the only one that is problematic. Inexpensive
tachs "usually" aren't compatible with MSDs.

- -----Original Message-----
From: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
To: Comid <Comid>
Date: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 1:49 AM
Subject: Cats and tachs


>
>Received: from halifax.chebucto.ns.ca [192.75.95.75] by jellico.com with
smtp
> id ABDBAACE ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 01:49:04 -0500
>Received: by halifax.chebucto.ns.ca id <36205-787>; Tue, 5 Jan 1999
02:49:17 -0400
>Received: from crown.icongrp.com ([206.150.180.10]:3159 "EHLO
crown.icongrp.com" ident: "root") by halifax.chebucto.ns.ca with ESMTP id
<36226-793>; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 02:48:54 -0400
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[206.150.180.195])
> by crown.icongrp.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA02911
> for <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 00:58:05 -0600 (CST)
>Message-Id: <199901050658.AAA02911@crown.icongrp.com>
>From: "Joe Centanni" <jacentan@crown.icongrp.com>
>To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
>Subject: Cats and tachs
>Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 00:52:04 -0600
>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>X-Priority: 3
>X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161
>X-Orcpt: rfc822;"|/csuite/etc/majordomo/wrapper resend -l oldsmobile -h
chebucto.ns.ca oldsmobile-mml"
>Sender: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
>Precedence: bulk
>Reply-To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>
>Speaking of CC's the latest study is that they may be bad for the
>environment*L*...G'ment bullshit!...They now possibly think that what they
>put out is worse than what goes into them and yes this is true but it is a
>study at this point any future references will gladly be shared w/ u when I
>get them.........Anyone else have a problem w/ an MSD and tha tach
>funcioning correctly, mine reads high and flutters and I know its not he
>6/8 switch on the back this only happened afgter the MSD and if I hook the
>tack directly to the MSD box the car won't start (they told me to)
> Later
> Jeremy 87 442
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 10:27:38 -0500
From: Gene Gilpin <ggilpin@wrallp.com>
Subject: Re: Hurst Hairy Olds in JWO

It's likely to be sitting in some collectors back room somewhere waiting to
be restored and made a buck off of. Right along with other MIA rare cars.


Ed
The Omega Man



- -----------------------------



At 09:56 AM 1/5/99 -0500, you wrote:
>Got my JWO yesterday and right smack dab on the cover is the Hurst Hairy
>Olds smokin' the hydes.  Good article, now I don't know too much about this
>car, but it did state that the car is either a) hidden away somewhere or b)
>Doc Watson cut it up and buried it in an undisclosed location.
>Get out your shovels and let the hunt begin :)
>
>Chris Smetana
>Terre Haute, IN
>http://www.abcs.com/chris
>
>1969 W-31
>1969 4-4-2 parts car
>plus others
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:28:59 EST
From: Fireman431@aol.com
Subject: Re: 66 wiper wiring

Greg, 
	Thanks for the information. It is possible that I am considering one 
of the
terminals as the grounding connection. I am also doing this from memory as the
motor is at the shop and I am at home. 
	I will try the wiring as indicated (it made perfect sense to me) and 
let you
know. 
Thanks again. Much appreciated.

Larry

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 10:34:27 -0500
From: Gene Gilpin <ggilpin@wrallp.com>
Subject: Re: Cats and tachs

I have one of the $40 cheapo Sun Super Tach II's in my 70 Camaro and I just
plugged it into the tach connect on my MSD 6A and it works just fine.

Ed
The Omega man
74 Omega S 455







Binnix wrote:
>MSD units and Tachs are notorious for not getting along. Summit sell an
>adapter that makes your tack and MSD box play nice together. For all, when
>you buy a tach, MAKE SURE that it is specifically compatible with your
>ignition. Generally, MSD is the only one that is problematic. Inexpensive
>tachs "usually" aren't compatible with MSDs.
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 08:35:14 -0700
From: "Igor T. '81 DRB 455" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Re: Dual Exhaust

My dad's '95 Intrepid has 3 cats, one on each pipe immediately after the
manifold going into a single pipe (like Y) and then, of course, an
additional big cat.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 07:38:17 PST
From: "Jennifer Fitzherbert" <jfitzherbert@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: How-to identify tranny?

I think this e-mail got misplaced..  Sorry.. 


>Date:	Mon, 04 Jan 1999 21:45:52 -0800
>From:	Greg Pruett <gregp@intrlink.com>
>To:	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>Subject: Re: How-to identify tranny?
>Reply-To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>
>Bill B. wrote:
>> 
>> The idea of pulling the tired Buick V6 out of my 82 Delta 88 is 
becoming
>> more appealing.  Is this likely to have a TH350 transmission or some
>> rubber band design?
>
>It's probably a TH350.  A TH350 has a pan about 12" square with one of
>the rear corners beveled off.   It could be a TH200 which is weak and
>should be avoided.  The TH200 pan is smaller and closer to square.  The
>quickest way to tell a TH200 is that it has "metric" stamped in the 
pan.
>
>>  Will this tranny bolt pattern match up with most Olds or
>> (Chevy) engines?  
>
>It will bolt to an Olds.  Buick V6 and V8s along with Olds, Pontiac and
>Caddy V8s all have the same bolt pattern.  Chevy V6 and V8s have their
>own bolt pattern.  Some trannys will bolt to either .  Most TH200s and
>TH2004Rs are dual bolt pattern.  There are some dual pattern TH350s but
>I've heard they're not very common.  
>
>Hope I was of some help.
>
>Greg Pruett
>72 Vista Cruiser 
>67 Cutlass Supreme
>80 Cutlass Calais


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:48:26 -0500
From: "Edward Binnix" <comid@jellico.com>
Subject: Re: Cats and tachs

That's precisely why I said "usually." There are "usually" exceptions. :-)

- -----Original Message-----

>
>I have one of the $40 cheapo Sun Super Tach II's in my 70 Camaro and I just
>plugged it into the tach connect on my MSD 6A and it works just fine.
>
>Ed
>The Omega man
>74 Omega S 455
>
>
>
>
>Binnix wrote:
>>MSD units and Tachs are notorious for not getting along. Summit sell an
>>adapter that makes your tack and MSD box play nice together. For all, when
>>you buy a tach, MAKE SURE that it is specifically compatible with your
>>ignition. Generally, MSD is the only one that is problematic. Inexpensive
>>tachs "usually" aren't compatible with MSDs.
>>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:51:51 -0500 
From: "Semantana Chris (ONEX)" <SemantanaC@tce.com>
Subject: Donor bodies - long

Disclaimers: This is meant as a thought or idea provoking discussion only.
I am in no way implying anyone is doing anything immoral, illegal or
anything.  blah blah blah....

I got to thinking the other day how one would go about the process of
swapping bodies onto their muscle cars since several people on the list had
mentioned potentially doing such a thing and a few people have asked me if
I'm planning on the same thing.  For example, my 69 W-31 is fairly rusty in
the rear section of the car and I have an AZ 69 4-4-2 body.  Several people
have asked why I don't just swap everything over to the 4-4-2 shell.  Well,
heres what got me to thinking.  Let's say I did do this and the time comes
to title and register the vehicle.  I know in Indiana if you are trying to
register a vehicle from another state (ie the title for the 4-4-2 is from
AZ), you have to have the vin checked out by a police officer to make sure
it matches the title and everything is kosher.  But what title and car would
the officer be checking, the car is a W-31, but, for the sake of this
example, I've swapped everything onto the 4-4-2 body.  Is the car now a
4-4-2?  Or a Cutlass S with the W-31 option?  Or one of those 1 of none
4-4-2 W-31s we've occasionally seen at shows?  I also know several people
(not personally) in the car hobby who in general swap vins and data plates
between cars (most notably 65 LeMans becoming a GTO).  So lets say I also
did this, so now in essence I've taken a 4-4-2 and swapped all of the
Cutlass S W-31 parts, pieces, vin and data plate onto it and I know have a
'new' car.  Do I still have my all numbers matching W-31?  Or is it just a
W-31 with the original motor?  I'm just wondering what some viewpoints on
this are?  I mean lets say a person decides its better to find a donor 72
cutlass convert body for his 70 pace car convert then to fix the severely
rotted quarter and trunk floors.  What year car does he have now?  Also,
what happens if he decides it's time to sell?

My own personal opinion is that ANY vin swapping or data plate swapping is
fraud and I want no part of it.  A few side notes.  1. I do not plan on
swapping everything over to my 4-4-2 shell, I will cut off the panels from
it and have the rusted panels on the Cutlass S body replaced with these.  2.
I also have a 66 GTO which is now a rolling shell and I've had many people
calling asking if I would sell the 'tags' from the car, which I haven't by
the way, as they want to 'make' a GTO either out of their wrecked GTO but
with the more desirable options that came on mine or their Tempest or
something, I don't know.
Like I said, I'm not implying anything with these statements, I'm just
trying to gather some viewpoints and opinions.  I also know there is
probably a split in opinions if a person decides on keeping a car forever or
if the person intends to sell it at some future point in time.

Chris Smetana
Terre Haute, IN
http://www.abcs.com/chris

1969 W-31
1969 4-4-2 parts car
plus others

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:54:22 -0500
From: "rkn" <rkn@ezaccess.net>
Subject: Re: Dual Exhaust

Ok, I gotta add my $.02 on this one. I had an 86 L*ncoln Mark VII. It had
dual exaust from the manifolds back. 2 Cats, 2 Mufflers. Not high
performance but it did get out of it's own way. Just to bad it couldn't get
out of the way of the 19 yr. old girl in the T*yota who hit me head on and
totalled it.
				R. Kevin Noon
				66 Dynamic 88 Convertible
				85 Delta 88 Royale Brougham (for sale)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:26:55 -0500
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: 72 cutlass tire size

Uh, Joe the G body rims were on my 72 Cutlass (scanning pics
soon),
________

Uh, sorry Mike.  Guess I didn't read your post as carefully as I should
have...

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:32:59 -0500
From: tonwald@eta.k12.mn.us (Tony Waldner)
Subject: Re: Donor bodies - long

>Disclaimers: This is meant as a thought or idea provoking discussion only.
>I am in no way implying anyone is doing anything immoral, illegal or
>anything.  blah blah blah....
>
>

Chris--

I have had a friend do this to a 65 Cutlass that was totaled.  He got a
shell and tranferred ID tags.  I did'nt like him doing this either.  He
sold the car fraudulently to an unsuspecting buyer.

In the late 80's I bought an 84 Chrysler K-car (Yah...I know I know) that
was hit hard in the drivers side.  It had to be inspected after I repaired
it at the local police headquarters.  The drove it into a garage, told me
to wait outside and shut the door.  I was curious, so I entered a side dorr
to watch the inspection.  They had the hood up and were prying the fendr
lip up on top by the battery.  They did the same to the passenger side.  At
that moment a police officer entered and was very angry with me for being
in there.  He ordered me out of the garage immedeatly.  I waited for them
to finish and was on my way.  When I returned home I liooked where they
were prying on the fender and low and behold the car's VIN number was
stamped on the inner structure beneath the fenders.  There was a cleaned
off spot on the tranny and engine block that had VIN's on them too.  Since
then I have poked around on different cars and have found VIN's everywhere.
So after 1968 models it would be difficult to change just the cowl tag and
VIN plate and not be caught.  I found the VIN number on the drivers side
frame rail on my 70 W-30 Sports Coupe just under the door. Ir was also
stamped on the firewall behind the heater air box. Interesting.......

Just my story and my.02

Tony

70 442 W-30
70 442 W-30 convert
70 Toro GT W-34
65 Jetstar 88 w/4-speed
84 Hurst/Olds
85 Cutlass Salon 455 Drag Racer
92 Seville STS

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:44:05 -0500
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: Dual Exhaust

Ok, I gotta add my $.02 on this one. I had an 86 L*ncoln Mark VII. It had
dual exaust from the manifolds back. 2 Cats, 2 Mufflers.
_________

Gang, just to drag this thread to it's conclusion, Ford _did_ factory
install dual cats and true dual exhausts on many of it's 5.0L and 5.7L
applications.  GM typically (with the few exceptions noted) did not.

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:16:38 -0800
From: "Jim Byrne" <jbyrne@cncx.com>
Subject: RE: Dual Exhaust

Please remove my e-mail from your list.

Thanks.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
> [mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of
> Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
> Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 8:44 AM
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Dual Exhaust
> 
> 
> Ok, I gotta add my $.02 on this one. I had an 86 L*ncoln Mark VII. It had
> dual exaust from the manifolds back. 2 Cats, 2 Mufflers.
> _________
> 
> Gang, just to drag this thread to it's conclusion, Ford _did_ factory
> install dual cats and true dual exhausts on many of it's 5.0L and 5.7L
> applications.  GM typically (with the few exceptions noted) did not.
> 
> Joe Padavano
> padavano.joe
> 
> 66 442
> 68 W-30
> 69 H/O
> 69 442
> 70 W-30
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:29:22 -0600
From: "Peter Landowski" <PETTRIX@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Hurst Hairy Olds in JWO

Yes, I higly doubt they would chop the car up and bury it. To go through
all that rouble, for what? If it was buried, it is garbage by now. 
Pettrix@prodigy.net

- ----------
> From: Gene Gilpin <ggilpin@wrallp.com>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Hurst Hairy Olds in JWO
> Date: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 9:27 AM
> 
> 
> It's likely to be sitting in some collectors back room somewhere waiting
to
> be restored and made a buck off of. Right along with other MIA rare cars.
> 
> 
> Ed
> The Omega Man
> 
> 
> 
> -----------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> At 09:56 AM 1/5/99 -0500, you wrote:
> >Got my JWO yesterday and right smack dab on the cover is the Hurst Hairy
> >Olds smokin' the hydes.  Good article, now I don't know too much about
this
> >car, but it did state that the car is either a) hidden away somewhere or
b)
> >Doc Watson cut it up and buried it in an undisclosed location.
> >Get out your shovels and let the hunt begin :)
> >
> >Chris Smetana
> >Terre Haute, IN
> >http://www.abcs.com/chris
> >
> >1969 W-31
> >1969 4-4-2 parts car
> >plus others
> >
> >

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:47:07 EST
From: DYeager535@aol.com
Subject: Re: Donor bodies - long

In a message dated 1/5/99 7:55:00 AM Pacific Standard Time, SemantanaC@tce.com
writes:

<< My own personal opinion is that ANY vin swapping or data plate swapping is
 fraud and I want no part of it.  >>

     Chris, in this state, if you buy a BODY from a wrecking yard, they must
take the VIN plate off. Then, when you have rebuilt the car, the state has to
inspect it, and basically you tell them what it is, they apply a tag to the
frame, and your title reflects what you tell them. Your description of the
vehicle must be similar to what the vehicle really is (say you have a '69
front end on a '68. It's a '68 if you tell them) 
     I agree that any VIN swapping/data plate swapping is misleading (unless
done for something like what the car USED to be in the data plate case). Not
only that, VIN swapping, as far as I know, is never legal. (thats probably why
they use special rivets) 
     I personally would like to find out if I bought the vehicle from a
private party if THEY can remove the VIN tag. With no VIN tag, it would
potentially make the vehicle easier to get around emissions...could change it
from an original V6 to a V8, could make the car the same year as the drive
train, thereby missing emissions testing, and on and on..guess I need to talk
to the state on that one. \
     I'm sure that some of these rules vary state by state, but I bet most are
quite similar.  Dorian

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:01:11 -0500 
From: "Semantana Chris (ONEX)" <SemantanaC@tce.com>
Subject: RE: Donor bodies - long

> Not
> only that, VIN swapping, as far as I know, is never legal. (thats probably
> why
> they use special rivets) 
> 
There are ads in Hemmings with the special rivets for sale.  Someone pointed
this out to me, but I remember seeing the ads before.

Chris Smetana
Terre Haute, IN
http://www.abcs.com/chris

1969 W-31
1969 4-4-2 parts car
plus others

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:01:47 -0600 (CST)
From: blue442@webtv.net
Subject: Re: Donor bodies - long

I"ve considered something similar on my 68 442.  I'd keep the existing
body, but swap in a modified frame.

If I could find a donor car with straight frame, yank everything, strip,
reinforce, and paint the donor frame while keeping mine original.  I
could have whatever rear axle, four wheel disc brakes, or anything else
I want, and be able to go back original in the future.

Any thoughts?
Jeff Carter
blue442@webtv.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:14:30 EST
From: BIGJERMES@aol.com
Subject: MSD and factory tachs

i was curius about the problem with the MSD ignition and tachometers.  i have
my factory tach hooked up on the distributor (HEI) just like it came from the
factory and it seems to be working the same as before i put on my MSD.  i know
there is a place on the ignition box to hook up a tach, and im guessing thats
what you guys are talking about.  from what im hearing, if i hooked up my tach
directly to the ignition box it would go crazy. however, i didnt use that, i
just did it like factory and it seems fine.  
jeremy
BIGJERMES@aol.com

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #1701
*********************************

