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Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #1777


oldsmobile-digest      Monday, February 15 1999      Volume 01 : Number 1777



Re: A Tale of Two Cars
Oldsmobile Alero (was: Re: RE: A Tale of Two Cars)
HELP!!!
Re: A Tale of Two Cars
Re: A Tale of Two Cars
Re: 88 Toronado Trofeo'
Re: Burnouts (TEMP SPARES)
Re: A Tale of Two Cars
Re: 88 Toronado Trofeo'
BB Intake
RE: 88 Toronado Trofeo'
Re: 88 Toronado Trofeo'
Re: A Tale of Two Cars
Re: Part numbers 57 J 2 setup
RE: 88 Toronado Trofeo'
any one have photo of cutlass with bra (84 style)
Re: Exhaust Manifold Center Divider Weld
Re: A Tale of Two Cars
Sioux City IA swapmeet
Heater Core
Re: A Tale of Two Cars
Web page updated
Re: [BB Intake]
Re: A Tale of Two Cars
Re: gas tank insulation
Re: Rocket? Kettering
Re: NASCAR ON DISCOVERY
RE: A Tale of Two Cars
Re: 54 cutlass?
Re: welding center divider 
Re: My Page now has pictures!
Olds Club of Florida
RE: any one have photo of cutlass with bra (84 style)
Re: tires
Re: Nash Bridges
NEW FAQ
Re: welding exhaust divider
Re: My Page now has pictures!
RE: A Tale of Two Cars
Master Lou
RE: A Tale of Two Cars
Re: [BB Intake]
Re: Hood Stripes
RE: A Tale of Two Cars
Re: A Tale of Two Cars
Re: [BB Intake]
It's ALIVE!!!
RE: A Tale of Two Cars
BAD American Cars 
Re: [Re: [BB Intake]]
RE: It's ALIVE!!!
RE: BAD American Cars 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:02:49 PST
From: "Mike Sealey" <rocket98for69@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: A Tale of Two Cars

Sorry you had such a miserable Concorde...   ...sounds like the problems 
my parents had with their '81 Delta 88 Diesel.  Not exactly, they didn't 
have the suspension collapse, but it went through two engines (GM 
extended warranty only covered the 1st) in 66K miles, plus other 
problems that I've since managed to forget.  

I do know that I couldn't convince Dad that it'd actually stand a chance 
of being a good car if he converted it to a gasoline 350; he just wanted 
out ASAP.

Even with a new engine and absolutely flawless cosmetics (an Arizona 
car) the dealer only wanted to give him $300 for it, which suggests that 
Mopar has no exclusive on low resale...  (It was five years old at the 
time.)

They actually did buy another Olds, an '86 Ciera, and while FWD isn't my 
thing it seemed like a good enough car; however, they never entirely got 
the bad taste of that Delta out of their mouths (this despite my stepmom 
being an Olds owner of long standing -- and don't I wish I had the '64 
Cutlass convertible she had that a drunk rearended) and traded it on an 
'86 New Yorker (K-turbo) in less than a year.  They were happy enough 
with the NY to buy a '93 Imperial.  They still have both cars and FWIW 
are quite happy with them.  Go figure.

Mike Sealey
'69 Ninety Eight Holiday Sedan

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:06:37 EST
From: OldsRokkit@aol.com
Subject: Oldsmobile Alero (was: Re: RE: A Tale of Two Cars)

In a message dated 2/15/99, 12:24:47 PM, oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca writes:

<<I can't recommend any new American car over a Toyota or Honda.......>>

How does the Alero stack up?  Anyone?


- -Drew in Windy Western Kansas-

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:12:09 -0500
From: Jeff Howell <howell@bbt.com>
Subject: HELP!!!

What is "Protecto Plate"?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:15:33 -0700
From: "Igor T. '81 DRB 455" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Re: A Tale of Two Cars

>if you have to buy new............japanese are still better


I disagree.  Here in Canada, Japanese cars are on average more expensive
then their American counterparts.  I know that most of them have a good
track record, but I have had the opportunity to drive three new Japanese
cars on a longer road trip and hated all of them.  One was a Civic sedan
auto, one a Corolla manual (2.0L) and a Nissan Altima (2.4L, manual), and
even a Neon which was one of the worst. All were fully loaded and all(except
Neon) were in the same price range as my dads Intrepid.  All plain SUCKED.
NO POWER anywhere (almost dangerous on the highway), no comfort at all, no
room for nothing.  I had to travel through the Rockies and man, it was
horrible up hills.  Those things would rev. like crap and I was still
getting passed by old RVs.  Me and my dad went on that road trip (take the
trip often) with the Intrepid a few times and it was way better for the same
money.  Both my Oldses are light years ahead of the Intrepid and I would not
even compare it to the Japanese cars.  I know about the re-sale value and
all but I would not sacrifice my comfort and life (those little things) so
that I could sell the car later for a little more money.  My dad will never
buy a Chrysler product again, but neither will he buy Japanese. (nor me).
GM seems like a good way to go.  Every car has a problem.  As far as
reliability, my friend (a Nissan guy) had a little piece-of-crap Sentra with
about 5 years and 220,000kms on it.  It was a "good" car that by 220,000 was
junk and he sold it for $500.  It saw regular maintenance but the motor was
gone regardless.  For the last 50,000 it was burning oil like nuts.  He then
bought a Altima ('93 I think) with a manual and at about 90,000 kms (50,000
miles or so) the timing belt busted, compression was no longer even, clutch
needed a change, AC did not work, etc.  My '81 Regency, with the exception
of the A/C (needs a conversion) everything clicks.  It has 250,000 kms and
runs like new.  It also gets the same fuel economy because of propane and
price difference here.  Power, comfort and safety are not even comparable to
the Nissan.  My girlfriends mom also had a Civic and a Mazda 626, both
bought new and both sold with mo more then 100,000 miles with dead motors,
toast suspension, etc.  I also have a friend with two Toyotas who have been
good.  But, both have less then 100,000 miles, both see 4 times more
expensive maintenance per year then my dads Intrepid, both have nothing that
could compare to the Intrepid except maybe a little reliability that he paid
for more then once in maintenance difference.  As far as my Regency or
Delta, maintenance is free compared to those Japanese cars and reliability
is better as well.  Everything else comes free.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:19:39 -0700
From: "Igor T. '81 DRB 455" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Re: A Tale of Two Cars

>Sorry you had such a miserable Concorde...   ...sounds like the problems
>my parents had with their '81 Delta 88 Diesel.  Not exactly, they didn't
>have the suspension collapse, but it went through two engines (GM
>extended warranty only covered the 1st) in 66K miles, plus other
>problems that I've since managed to forget.


The Diesel does not count.  That was GMs fault.  My '81 Delta was great for
the first 250,000 miles, and now it is even better with a new 455 and Th400,
paint job, suspension and soon interior.  Best car my dad has ever owned, he
says, but now its MINE.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:18:48 -0500
From: "Jason Adcock" <rocketolds@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: 88 Toronado Trofeo'

Woah...I'm used to the G-body list, where the reply goes directly to the
sender, rather than the list...that was supposed to be private to Marco.

My apologies to the rest of the list...

Jason Adcock
mailto:rocketolds@vt.edu
http://members.xoom.com/jadcock

- -----Original Message-----
From: Jason Adcock <rocketolds@vt.edu>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 2:01 PM
Subject: Re: 88 Toronado Trofeo'


>Marco,
>
>About your rear view mirror with light sensor...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:21:22 -0700
From: "Igor T. '81 DRB 455" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Re: Burnouts (TEMP SPARES)

, until a ~BANG~.
>everyone went running out (Trying not to laugh too hard) and the guy had
>smoked the tires so bad, one of them blew!.  Man that was one of the
>funniest moments I can recall.


So what did you tell the owner.  HA HA.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:22:37 -0500
From: "Jason Adcock" <rocketolds@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: A Tale of Two Cars

My parents had no end of trouble with an '85 Ciera wagon they used to have.
All sorts of electrical troubles (ECM must have been replaced once a year)
and bugs.  It had the brand new 3.8L FI V6 and it ran great...when it ran.
They swore they'd never drive another Oldsmobile...but my Cutlass has been
flawless during the time (almost 4 years now) I've owned it.  Can't beat the
old technology!

Jason Adcock
mailto:rocketolds@vt.edu
http://members.xoom.com/jadcock

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:32:59 PST
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: 88 Toronado Trofeo'

> About your rear view mirror with light sensor...is that the kind
> that dims automatically with headlights from the rear?

Sounds like the same as I have in the '93 SSEi.

> If so, how does it mount to the windshield, just with glue, or
> is it mounted to the roof somehow?

It glues to the windshield in the usual manner, but also has a power
lead coming in. There's a little flexy piece of plastic conduit that
covers the wiring which drops down from the top center of the overhead
windshield molding to the base of the mirror.

> Also, do you know what kind of hookups it requires?

Mine seems to be completely self-contained with only a 12V supply.
It has an OFF/LO/HI sensitivity slide switch at bottom center that's
backlit whenever it's on (i.e. independent of the dash lights). There
are two light sensors: one facing forward to detect daylight, the
other in the top right corner of the mirror facing backward to look
for bright headlights. If the front sensor sees darkness but the rear
one sees light, it dims the mirror.

I don't see a whole lot of difference between LO and HI settings, and
frankly I don't know how much difference the thing makes anyway. I've
tried switching it off and on at night with bright lights behind me
but it doesn't seem to change much if at all...

- -- Andy


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:34:33 -0600
From: Shang <shang@connect.net>
Subject: BB Intake

Anyone have a pre-72 (non EGR) intake for a BB they need to sell or get
rid of? I want to get my 455 going this weekend and everyone is out of
the Performer. Please respond privately. (shang@connect.net) Looking to
spend around $40 (+shipping) or less.

Thanks

Stephen Hoover
Dallas, Texas
'70 Supreme

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:37:22 -0500
From: Marc Leizza <mleizza@solidworks.com>
Subject: RE: 88 Toronado Trofeo'

Hi Jason, 
Yes, it is the kind that dims when headlights hit it which can be set by
(Distance).
The way that it mount is just like any other standard rear view mirror, it
slides on over the metal plate that is glued to your windshield.  However,
I'm not sure if that plate varies in size compared to a standard rear view
mirror.  If anything, your attachment plate may be too small.  As far as it
goes for the electronics, the mirror itself has a connector that plugs
(mates) with a wire that is hidden underneath the headliner. Where that wire
goes to, I'm not to sure about.  In any case your welcome to it if you'd
like it.

Thanks, 
Marco

	-----Original Message-----
	From:	Jason Adcock [SMTP:rocketolds@vt.edu]
	Sent:	Monday, February 15, 1999 1:59 PM
	To:	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
	Subject:	Re: 88 Toronado Trofeo'

	Marco,

	About your rear view mirror with light sensor...is that the kind
that dims
	automatically with headlights from the rear?  If so, how does it
mount to
	the windshield, just with glue, or is it mounted to the roof
somehow?  Also,
	do you know what kind of hookups it requires?  It'd be very
interested in
	retro-fitting it into my '84 Calais (RWD) if it only requires a
power hookup
	to work.

	Thanks, Marco!

	Jason Adcock
	mailto:rocketolds@vt.edu
	http://members.xoom.com/jadcock

	-----Original Message-----
	From: Marc Leizza <mleizza@solidworks.com>
	To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
	Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 1:22 PM
	Subject: 88 Toronado Trofeo'


	>I have no use for these any more since my Trofeo' was stolen.
	>
	>
	>For sale:
	>1988 Toronado Trofeo' owners manual and Rear view Mirror with light
sensor.
	>
	>Best offer for each or both
	>
	>Marco

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:52:49 -0500
From: "Jason Adcock" <rocketolds@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: 88 Toronado Trofeo'

Marco, that sounds good.  There is an article on the 'Net about putting a
Lumina mirror (with map lights) into a G-body, so I can figure out the
electronics once I have the actual mirror.  But to be frank with you, I've
got no idea what the "going rate" for a mirror is...please let me know what
you want for it.

Thanks!

Jason Adcock
mailto:rocketolds@vt.edu
http://members.xoom.com/jadcock

- -----Original Message-----
From: Marc Leizza <mleizza@solidworks.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 2:47 PM
Subject: RE: 88 Toronado Trofeo'


>Hi Jason,
>Yes, it is the kind that dims when headlights hit it which can be set by
>(Distance).
>The way that it mount is just like any other standard rear view mirror, it
>slides on over the metal plate that is glued to your windshield.  However,
>I'm not sure if that plate varies in size compared to a standard rear view
>mirror.  If anything, your attachment plate may be too small.  As far as it
>goes for the electronics, the mirror itself has a connector that plugs
>(mates) with a wire that is hidden underneath the headliner. Where that
wire
>goes to, I'm not to sure about.  In any case your welcome to it if you'd
>like it.
>
>Thanks,
>Marco

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:55:05 -0500
From: toddmorr@us.ibm.com
Subject: Re: A Tale of Two Cars

So, Igor, you're knocking the Japanese cars for bad motors at the 100K
mark, I notice you have a 455 in your Delta.  When did you have to put that
in???

Todd Morris
71 442

> My girlfriends mom also had a Civic and a Mazda 626, both
>bought new and both sold with mo more then 100,000 miles with dead motors,
>toast suspension, etc.  I also have a friend with two Toyotas who have
been
>good.  But, both have less then 100,000 miles, both see 4 times more
>expensive maintenance per year then my dads Intrepid, both have nothing
that
>could compare to the Intrepid except maybe a little reliability that he
paid
>for more then once in maintenance difference.  As far as my Regency or
>Delta, maintenance is free compared to those Japanese cars and reliability
>is better as well.  Everything else comes free.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:58:05 EST
From: FREDALL@aol.com
Subject: Re: Part numbers 57 J 2 setup

Hi Todd,

I have a 57 Super 88 woithout the J2 and have always been interested in
purchasing one. If you are considering selling it please e-mail me.

Fred      FREDALL@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:52:49 -0500
From: Marc Leizza <mleizza@solidworks.com>
Subject: RE: 88 Toronado Trofeo'

Well Jason, 
I've got to be honest with you, I have no idea what it would go for either.
so, ill tell you what, seeing that I really don't need it, I'll give it to
you.  Just get me your address.

Marco

	-----Original Message-----
	From:	Jason Adcock [SMTP:rocketolds@vt.edu]
	Sent:	Monday, February 15, 1999 2:53 PM
	To:	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
	Subject:	Re: 88 Toronado Trofeo'

	Marco, that sounds good.  There is an article on the 'Net about
putting a
	Lumina mirror (with map lights) into a G-body, so I can figure out
the
	electronics once I have the actual mirror.  But to be frank with
you, I've
	got no idea what the "going rate" for a mirror is...please let me
know what
	you want for it.

	Thanks!

	Jason Adcock
	mailto:rocketolds@vt.edu
	http://members.xoom.com/jadcock

	-----Original Message-----
	From: Marc Leizza <mleizza@solidworks.com>
	To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
	Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 2:47 PM
	Subject: RE: 88 Toronado Trofeo'


	>Hi Jason,
	>Yes, it is the kind that dims when headlights hit it which can be
set by
	>(Distance).
	>The way that it mount is just like any other standard rear view
mirror, it
	>slides on over the metal plate that is glued to your windshield.
However,
	>I'm not sure if that plate varies in size compared to a standard
rear view
	>mirror.  If anything, your attachment plate may be too small.  As
far as it
	>goes for the electronics, the mirror itself has a connector that
plugs
	>(mates) with a wire that is hidden underneath the headliner. Where
that
	wire
	>goes to, I'm not to sure about.  In any case your welcome to it if
you'd
	>like it.
	>
	>Thanks,
	>Marco

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:11:08 -0800 (PST)
From: carl g <cngtwo@yahoo.com>
Subject: any one have photo of cutlass with bra (84 style)

i have recently bought a 84 cuttlass and would like to see what it
would look like with a bra on the front. i was just wondering if
anyone could email me a photo of a cuttlass with a bra on it so i can
see if i like how it looks.



_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:08:23 -0800
From: "Reed, Stephen" <sreed@chatsworth.com>
Subject: Re: Exhaust Manifold Center Divider Weld

David Brode wrote:
>=20
> To  David,
>  I think there is quite a risk in welding up the divider. Cast tends to
> crack when cooling after being welded, unless done in an oven.
> There is a water jacket under the exhaust port floor. You can cut the
> exhaust side of the head back .175" or so, which 'brings" the divider
> out flush with the rest of the exhaust flange. I've done this and it
> works
> well, although sometimes you need to slot the header/manifold holes
> and move it up, or otherwise modify the header.
>=20
> I think brazing is a bit safer if you choose not to cut the head back.
> You can buy large [apx 1/4"X1/4"] "rods" of cast iron
> [for gas welding cast iron], which can be fitted and brazed into place.
>=20
> Dave Brode
> 64 Cutlass
> [with exhaust side cut .175" on "C" head, crossovers poured with
> aluminum]


>Dave,

> How about heliarcing?  The shop that did my crank says they'll heliarc
>the center divider.  Then they'll port the exhausts to get rid of the
>slag buildup and mill the exhaust-gasket mating area...for $100-125.

I did this myself on my set of W/Z manifolds a few years back.  Welded no
problemo.  The main part is to make sure you have used a ~Machinable Weld~
type of material (Mig weld type of spool fed material) so that when you
machine (Resurface) the face the cutters are not beaten to ~heck~ machining
this surface.  It shouldn't be a problem

Steve Reed
'70 4-4-2 'Ragtop
Austin, TX

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:15:41 -0700
From: "Igor T. '81 DRB 455" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Re: A Tale of Two Cars

>So, Igor, you're knocking the Japanese cars for bad motors at the 100K
>mark, I notice you have a 455 in your Delta.  When did you have to put that
>in???

After more then 250,000 care-free MILES (not KMS) with my 307, it needed a
timing chain change, but being 18 yrs. old, I wanted more power so I decided
to rebuild a high-compression 455 and make a sleeper 81.  I did not have to
change the motor, I just wanted a 450 ft/lb '81 Delta 88.  250,000 miles is
pretty good and the motor had dead even compression, good carb, burned NO
oil, good economy (for what it was), great trans (although I did not want to
destroy it with a 455, so I put a used th400), etc, etc.

I also agree that Honda and Toyota are way better then the Nissan and Mazda.
Also, a Nissan Maxima for example with a V6 IS more powerful and better then
my dads intrepid, Camry or Avalon with a V6 might be better as well.  I know
that this is the same class as the Intrepid, but that is on paper only.  I
was merle talking about PRICE RANGE.  You CAN'T buy a equally equipped Camry
or Avalon or Maxima for near the same money as the Intrepid.  If I don't
have $30,000 CAN but only $22,000, that makes a big difference.

As for my Oldses, I know that you can't compare them to Japanese cars as
they never made a car that good.  I also know that a Regency was not in the
same price range or class as, say, a '81 Nissan, but I bought that Regency
used for $1500 and it makes me feel good to have to go and bail my stranded
friend on the high-way with a newer Japanese car that he paid $15,000 for.


Also, my girlfriends mom pampers her cars, but both me and my dad drive the
crap our to them.  Even so, the Oldses last forever, but not the Intrepid.
I guess that first impressions count.  We had good first impression with
Oldes, bad with Japanese cars.  Also, I would NEVER EVER buy a used or new
small N.A. car (like the Sunfire or the Neon).  If I HAD TO, I would buy a
Jap. small car over a N.A. small car, but then again, I would NEVER buy a
small car so that is besides the point.

Igor Todorovic
1981 Delta 88 (455/th400/3.23 posi)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:01:52 -0600
From: inovator@agriculture.com (Grant Mangold)
Subject: Sioux City IA swapmeet

64 F-85 and 74 98 LS and 57 Chevy and 68 Vette will all be for sale at the
Sioux City Iowa 19th annual Hi-Performance Swap Meet (call 712-239-1466 for
info) at the Siouxland Convention Center across from the Marina Inn in South
Sioux City. Doors open at 8am on Sunday February 21. Email for more details
on the cars if interested. Thanks! -- GM

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:12:55 -0800
From: "Quinn, James" <JBQUINN@ZoneAutomation.com>
Subject: Heater Core

Hi,
This is weird and I'm wondering if anybody has any idea what's going on
here.

I just installed a mew heater core in my 69 Vista Cruiser. It went pretty
smoothly. The heater core was an after market and fit pretty well once I
messed with the brackets that hod it down.

Here's the problem. After hooking the hoses up, I refilled the radiator and
started the car. So far, everything's cool. Then later I go take it for a
ride I get this whirling sound emanating from the heater box. I can feel it
vibrate more and more with increased RPM's. Does anybody have a clue as to
what is making this noise? Could it be an air bubble that is whirling around
inside the core? If so, how do I get rid of it? Any help would be awesome

Thanks,
Jim

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:45:12 -0700
From: Cliff Simpson <csimpson@ucalgary.ca>
Subject: Re: A Tale of Two Cars

Mickey.Womack@ULTRAK.com wrote:
> 
> <snip>
> if you have to buy new............japanese are still better
 
All generalizations are false, including this one.
- -- 

Cliff Simpson
csimpson@ucalgary.ca
'69 442/400/th400/3.31p (Kermit)
http://www.acs.ucalgary.ca/~csimpson/TheOldsZone.html

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:49:12 -0700
From: Cliff Simpson <csimpson@ucalgary.ca>
Subject: Web page updated

I've just added some old ads, and updated the Misc. section with a bit
of humor.  

To the fellow who mentioned the Olds war time ads in the Rocket naming
thread, I've included some of the W.W.II ads.

I hope someone finds them interesting.
- -- 
Cliff Simpson
csimpson@ucalgary.ca
'69 442/400/th400/3.31p (Kermit)
http://www.acs.ucalgary.ca/~csimpson/TheOldsZone.html

------------------------------

Date: 15 Feb 99 14:49:08 MST
From: RSTOMN <restoman@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: [BB Intake]

oldsmobile-mml-owner@chebucto.ns.ca wrote:
Anyone have a pre-72 (non EGR) intake for a BB they need to sell or get
rid of? I want to get my 455 going this weekend and everyone is out of
the Performer. Please respond privately. (shang@connect.net) Looking to
spend around $40 (+shipping) or less.

Thanks

Stephen Hoover
Dallas, Texas
'70 Supreme

.......................................................
How about 2-bbl. 455 intake?

RESTOMAN

____________________________________________________________________
More than just email--Get your FREE Netscape WebMail account today at 
http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:56:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Rock Man <rockman20@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: A Tale of Two Cars

> Mickey.Womack@ULTRAK.com wrote:
> > 
> > <snip>
> > if you have to buy new............japanese are still better

- ---Cliff Simpson <csimpson@ucalgary.ca> wrote: 
> All generalizations are false, including this one.
> -- 
I haven't kept up with this thread, but I agree with Cliff. I don't
think any company is "superior". They all have their pros and cons.
Everything in this life does. I really love my Honda Accord. I have
hauled everything in that car icluding a rear bumper/front
bumper/radiator core support/and all the brackets for my Olds in that
thing! Good mileage and 190,000 miles without a problem. But, it is
expensive to fix and it is not a throaty V-8. :-) But it keeps my Olds
off the salty roads and hauls anything I don't want to haul in my Olds.
==
Rock-Man's Page http://www.angelfire.com/nd/RockMan
rockman20@yahoo.com
1986 Honda Accord DX
1983 Honda Big Red 3-wheeler
1981 John Deer Snowmobile
197? Massey Ferguson Snowmobile
1969 Olds Cutlass "S"
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:51:24 -0600
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: gas tank insulation

Mike;
HQ, Home Depot, or Loews. I still thing 30# felt paper would work out
better. This stuff is thin and hard to work with because of the adhesive.
Whatever.
Lou

- ----------
> From: Mike Rothe. <hurstolds@xtalwind.net>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: gas tank insulation
> Date: Sunday, February 14, 1999 8:14 PM
> 
> > i would use a roofing product called storm and ice shield.it has
> > adhesive on one side it is identical in appearance to the original
> > mateial.
> 
> Where can you get that stuff?  I'm sure they don't have big supplies of
> that here in Florida.  Sounds interesting.
> 
> Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:58:40 -0600
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: Rocket? Kettering

Hi all;
Think it was because "Rockets" were big in the late 40s, End of W.W.II,
Germans had V2s, White Sands, NM, all that stuff. The new thing, look at
the hood ornaments. Hot name, hot new engine! No connection or meaning
really, just a good name. 
Master Lou
lbiggs@intertek.net


- ----------
> From: Charles A. Dempsey <cdemps@lsumc.edu>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Cc: mbloomer@mindspring.com
> Subject: Re: Rocket? Kettering
One photo on the lower left side of page 194 says "Oldsmobile produced a
> large number of rockets which were used in a variety of applications
> during the war. Here a Republic P-47 Thunderbolt was outfitted with
> triple rocket launchers under each wing. The Olds-built projectiles
> could be launched by bazookas and this type of weapon was very
> successfully used in Southwest Pacific fighting.
> 
> The picture shows a resting P-47 with three longish tubes under each
> wing. It is the only reference I know of in which Oldsmobile is said to
> have made Rockets. 
Charles

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:03:48 -0600
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: NASCAR ON DISCOVERY

Master;
That is a word that the knights who say nic, cannot mention.
Lou
- ----------
> From: Master Costanzo <costanzo@netcarrier.com>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: NASCAR ON DISCOVERY

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:03:53 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: RE: A Tale of Two Cars

On Mon, 15 Feb 1999 Mickey.Womack@ULTRAK.com wrote:
> I can't recommend any new American car over a Toyota or Honda..........

A statement like this is a great way to start a debate that has no
resolution and is likely to turn into a flame war...

Just about every manufacturer has good cars and bad ones. There is no
right answer. I do tend to believe that there is a sort of brainwashing
that goes on with owners of Hondas and the like though... they talk of how
wonderful they are and that they never need repair, but don't blink twice
at paying $200 to $500 for periodic dealer service that the manufactuer
calls for. Then they usually trade them in sometime before they get 5
years old, at which point (around here at least) they are about to rot
away from rust. And don't even get me started on SUVs like the RAV4, the
Grand Vitara and the like. :) I do know that my one and only new Toyota
was a nice car, but had more than its share of troubles, some of them
serious, despite careful maintenance. They are far from perfect.

If I had my druthers (and finances) right now, I think I would go for a
Buick Regal or an Intrigue, or maybe a GMC pickup. But to each his own.

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:09:32 -0600
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: 54 cutlass?

Robert;
Check or cash is waiting if thats a Motorama car, Plus I owe you a night on
the town, gimme his name and address. take care.
Master Lou
lbiggs@intertek.net


- ----------
> From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: 54 cutlass?
> >1954, either a "88", a "Super 88", or a "98", no cutlass'
> 
> Not production, no; but the Cutlass name was applied to a number of
> Oldsmobile Motorama show cars through the fifties. Of course, unless that
> friend's friend managed to buy one of those show cars (this was before
> mandatory crushing of show-cars, so some survive to this day), then he's
> either got a '64 Cutlass or something, or a '54 88/98. 
> 
> Either way, maybe you should go take a look at the car; if this man's
memory
> is as bad as it sounds, perhaps you can convince him that he already
agreed
> to sell you the car for $350. ;)
> ---
> Bob (takin' my official sig off this one...)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:08:13 -0500
From: David Brode <dbrode@hereintown.net>
Subject: Re: welding center divider 

Paul,
 I've never tig welded cast iron. Will they pay to buy you new heads, if
they crack?
 Could you ask them what shielding gas/filler/polarity they use? I have a
small T.I.G. machine, and I'd like to try it. Thanks, and good luck.
Dave


> >  I think there is quite a risk in welding up the divider. Cast tends to
> > crack when cooling after being welded, unless done in an oven.
> > There is a water jacket under the exhaust port floor. You can cut the
> > exhaust side of the head back .175" or so, which 'brings" the divider
> > out flush with the rest of the exhaust flange. I've done this and it
> > works
> > well, although sometimes you need to slot the header/manifold holes
> > and move it up, or otherwise modify the header.
> >
> > I think brazing is a bit safer if you choose not to cut the head back.
> > You can buy large [apx 1/4"X1/4"] "rods" of cast iron
> > [for gas welding cast iron], which can be fitted and brazed into place.
> >
> > Dave Brode
> > 64 Cutlass
> > [with exhaust side cut .175" on "C" head, crossovers poured with
> > aluminum]
>
> Dave,
>
>  How about heliarcing?  The shop that did my crank says they'll heliarc
> the center divider.  Then they'll port the exhausts to get rid of the
> slag buildup and mill the exhaust-gasket mating area...for $100-125.
>
>   Paul Brillhart
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:19:18 -0600
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: My Page now has pictures!

Kelly;
Nice, but that song is not "Oh, Canada"
Lou

- ----------
> From: Gutlass66@aol.com
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: My Page now has pictures!
> Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 12:36 AM
> 
> okok, Finaly, my Cutlass is online!! Check out the pictures at
> http://www.angelfire.com/wa/Olds442z/ and click on the 1966 Cutlass link.
> Kelly Erickson
> 1966 Cutlass
> 1954 Super 88
> Gutlass66@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:23:03 -0500
From: "person" <vbdeveloper@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Olds Club of Florida

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:23:20 -0500
From: "Master Costanzo" <costanzo@netcarrier.com>
Subject: RE: any one have photo of cutlass with bra (84 style)

Well, I don't have a photo, but I've seen it before and it loos prett cool.
the bra has the twin grill them to go along, and it's alright.  The car i
saw it on was an 86 Cutlass that had every single add on you could think of,
ie. bra, leather mirror covers, curb feelers, 45 degree mudflaps, Mexican
style antenna, ground effects, wing, rear window louvers, window tint,
illuminated hood ornament, windshield banner, and a bunch of other stuff.
It was the most terrible looking Cutlass I have ever seen. In DC, imagine
that.  But the bra was cool.

Ray Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass (hibernating)
84 Calais ($200!)
costanzo@netcarrier.com
http://www.user1.netcarrier.com/~costanzo

- -----Original Message-----
From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of carl g
Sent: Monday, February 15, 1999 3:11 PM
To: olds list
Subject: any one have photo of cutlass with bra (84 style)



i have recently bought a 84 cuttlass and would like to see what it
would look like with a bra on the front. i was just wondering if
anyone could email me a photo of a cuttlass with a bra on it so i can
see if i like how it looks.



_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:23:11 PST
From: "Erwin Mendoza" <olds87442@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: tires

   Does anyone know what tires (brand, style) came on my car
originally?  They're listed on the window sticker as:

"QHW TIRES P205/70R14 SB RAD W/LTR 146.00"

I see there thay they're white letter tires, but were they Firestones or
Goodyears, or what?  RWL or ROWL?  FWIW, this is on a 1984 Cutlass 
Calais w/
F41.

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help!  :-)

Jason Adcock
mailto:rocketolds@vt.edu
http://members.xoom.com/jadcock

Jason

I seem to remember when those cars were brand new, (I feel really old!) 
I saw them with either Uniroyal Tiger Paw w/ the raised white letters or 
I believe they were also Firestone's, not sure of the model, I hope I 
was some kind of assistance to you!!

 

Erwin Mendoza   
1987 442
1999 Dodge Dakota 4X4 extended cab (daily driver and parts fetcher)
OCA#29671
Edison, New Jersey
      


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:26:10 -0600
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: Nash Bridges

Mike;
4 speed first gear was 2.66, 727 was 2.45 + torque multification (may not
be a word) though the converter, missed the thread.
Lou

- ----------
> From: Mike Sealey <rocket98for69@hotmail.com>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Nash Bridges
 
> Olds content forced in: I'm still curious as to whether the allegedly
> available '64 442 4-door sedan is rarer than a real '71 hemicuda.
> 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:28:22 EST
From: Heiser5@aol.com
Subject: NEW FAQ

Is there a new FAQ newer than 4.0?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:32:17 -0600
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: welding exhaust divider

Yeah; If they will do it, I would do it.
Lou

- ----------
> From: Paul Brillhart <pbrill1@uic.edu>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: welding exhaust divider
> Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 9:20 AM
>  How about heliarcing?  The shop that did my crank says they'll heliarc
> the center divider.  Then they'll port the exhausts to get rid of the
> slag buildup and mill the exhaust-gasket mating area...for $100-125.
> 
>   Paul Brillhart

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:29:35 EST
From: Gutlass66@aol.com
Subject: Re: My Page now has pictures!

get me the midi of oh canada, and i'll put it on.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:35:32 -0600
From: Mickey.Womack@ULTRAK.com
Subject: RE: A Tale of Two Cars

Don't believe everything your hear about prices.

I have a 1997 Toyota Avalon 6-cyl (only way it comes), airbags,
anti-lock brakes, power-everything, overdrive, etc.  and I paid $21,500
NOT $30,000 Brand New.  Our T-100 (brand new) sticker price was 29,900
and we paid 21,000.

You need someone to help you buy your next car.  Sounds like you could
have saved even more on that Intrepid!!!


> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Igor T. '81 DRB 455 [SMTP:igor455@home.com]
> Sent:	Monday, February 15, 1999 2:16 PM
> To:	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject:	Re: A Tale of Two Cars
> 
> >So, Igor, you're knocking the Japanese cars for bad motors at the
> 100K
> >mark, I notice you have a 455 in your Delta.  When did you have to
> put that
> >in???
> 
> After more then 250,000 care-free MILES (not KMS) with my 307, it
> needed a
> timing chain change, but being 18 yrs. old, I wanted more power so I
> decided
> to rebuild a high-compression 455 and make a sleeper 81.  I did not
> have to
> change the motor, I just wanted a 450 ft/lb '81 Delta 88.  250,000
> miles is
> pretty good and the motor had dead even compression, good carb, burned
> NO
> oil, good economy (for what it was), great trans (although I did not
> want to
> destroy it with a 455, so I put a used th400), etc, etc.
> 
> I also agree that Honda and Toyota are way better then the Nissan and
> Mazda.
> Also, a Nissan Maxima for example with a V6 IS more powerful and
> better then
> my dads intrepid, Camry or Avalon with a V6 might be better as well.
> I know
> that this is the same class as the Intrepid, but that is on paper
> only.  I
> was merle talking about PRICE RANGE.  You CAN'T buy a equally equipped
> Camry
> or Avalon or Maxima for near the same money as the Intrepid.  If I
> don't
> have $30,000 CAN but only $22,000, that makes a big difference.
> 
> As for my Oldses, I know that you can't compare them to Japanese cars
> as
> they never made a car that good.  I also know that a Regency was not
> in the
> same price range or class as, say, a '81 Nissan, but I bought that
> Regency
> used for $1500 and it makes me feel good to have to go and bail my
> stranded
> friend on the high-way with a newer Japanese car that he paid $15,000
> for.
> 
> 
> Also, my girlfriends mom pampers her cars, but both me and my dad
> drive the
> crap our to them.  Even so, the Oldses last forever, but not the
> Intrepid.
> I guess that first impressions count.  We had good first impression
> with
> Oldes, bad with Japanese cars.  Also, I would NEVER EVER buy a used or
> new
> small N.A. car (like the Sunfire or the Neon).  If I HAD TO, I would
> buy a
> Jap. small car over a N.A. small car, but then again, I would NEVER
> buy a
> small car so that is besides the point.
> 
> Igor Todorovic
> 1981 Delta 88 (455/th400/3.23 posi)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:34:26 -0500
From: "Master Costanzo" <costanzo@netcarrier.com>
Subject: Master Lou

hey Master Lou	
what's your email address?  And do you have ICQ?
Rabia majora

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:37:10 -0600
From: Mickey.Womack@ULTRAK.com
Subject: RE: A Tale of Two Cars

just my opinion.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Cliff Simpson [SMTP:csimpson@ucalgary.ca]
> Sent:	Monday, February 15, 1999 3:45 PM
> To:	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject:	Re: A Tale of Two Cars
> 
> 
> Mickey.Womack@ULTRAK.com wrote:
> > 
> > <snip>
> > if you have to buy new............japanese are still better
>  
> All generalizations are false, including this one.
> -- 
> 
> Cliff Simpson
> csimpson@ucalgary.ca
> '69 442/400/th400/3.31p (Kermit)
> http://www.acs.ucalgary.ca/~csimpson/TheOldsZone.html

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:35:36 -0600
From: Shang <shang@connect.net>
Subject: Re: [BB Intake]

Bruce,

	Thanks for the offer, but it would take too big of a shoehorn to funnel
my Holley 750 DP down that 2-BBL throat ;) I know they make adapters,
but that's not the kind of setup I want to run.

Thanks anyway
Stephen


> .......................................................
> How about 2-bbl. 455 intake?
> 
> RESTOMAN
> 
> ____________________________________________________________________
> More than just email--Get your FREE Netscape WebMail account today at 
http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:50:33 -0600
From: "Peter Landowski" <PETTRIX@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Hood Stripes

Original 70-72 hood stripes were painted...
Pettrix@prodigy.net

- ----------
> From: Jeff Howell <howell@bbt.com>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Hood Stripes
> Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 9:33 AM
> 
> Can soemone tell me if original hood stripes are painted or are they a
decal?
> Jeff

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:40:53 -0600
From: Mickey.Womack@ULTRAK.com
Subject: RE: A Tale of Two Cars

Point well taken.......

I think we need to realize everyone is entitled to their opinion and
that's why we are all on this news group.

I definitely think my olds cutlass looks better  than any Japanese
car..........just my opinion.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Rock Man [SMTP:rockman20@yahoo.com]
> Sent:	Monday, February 15, 1999 3:57 PM
> To:	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject:	Re: A Tale of Two Cars
> 
> > Mickey.Womack@ULTRAK.com wrote:
> > > 
> > > <snip>
> > > if you have to buy new............japanese are still better
> 
> ---Cliff Simpson <csimpson@ucalgary.ca> wrote: 
> > All generalizations are false, including this one.
> > -- 
> I haven't kept up with this thread, but I agree with Cliff. I don't
> think any company is "superior". They all have their pros and cons.
> Everything in this life does. I really love my Honda Accord. I have
> hauled everything in that car icluding a rear bumper/front
> bumper/radiator core support/and all the brackets for my Olds in that
> thing! Good mileage and 190,000 miles without a problem. But, it is
> expensive to fix and it is not a throaty V-8. :-) But it keeps my Olds
> off the salty roads and hauls anything I don't want to haul in my
> Olds.
> ==
> Rock-Man's Page http://www.angelfire.com/nd/RockMan
> rockman20@yahoo.com
> 1986 Honda Accord DX
> 1983 Honda Big Red 3-wheeler
> 1981 John Deer Snowmobile
> 197? Massey Ferguson Snowmobile
> 1969 Olds Cutlass "S"
> _________________________________________________________
> DO YOU YAHOO!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:41:53 -0600
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: A Tale of Two Cars

I still can't spell Hundai, or am refusing to learn, OOPS thats a Korean
car isn't it. Have a very long driveway, all rice burners park in the
street, land mines they are called, or anti tank. They can smell dumped
steel a mile away.
Master Lou
lbiggs@intertek.net


- ----------
> From: Mickey.Womack@ULTRAK.com
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: RE: A Tale of Two Cars
> Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 11:24 AM
> 
> we own 2 new Toyotas (yeah, I know....Japanese) and 1 Oldsmobile ('68
> Cutlass).........
> 
> I can't recommend any new American car over a Toyota or Honda..........
> 
> my dad has 2 Buicks which are both a piece of cr@p - he's redeemed by
> the '69 Lemans convertible in the third garage
> 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:40:06 EST
From: Gutlass66@aol.com
Subject: Re: [BB Intake]

can get ya a performer for a BB, but it'll be like 100 bucks, plus shipping,
and would get there i'd say friday?!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:47:52 -0500
From: "Bill Reilly" <wjreilly@erols.com>
Subject: It's ALIVE!!!

Major success today!  I finally got my '85 Cutlass up and running again!!
WOOHOO!!

The 455 started and ran very well for the minute or so I let it.  The brakes
aren't finished and the shifter's not hooked up so I didn't try and drive
it.

It sounded so ~nice~, especially since it doesn't have an exhaust hooked up
either ;-)

I still have a lot to get done, but the first major hurdle has been
overcome.

Bill Reilly
mailto: wjreilly@erols.com
Web Page: (Not yet)

My Garage:
'83 Cutlass Ciera
'84 Cutlass Supreme Brougham
'85 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:48:37 -0600
From: Mickey.Womack@ULTRAK.com
Subject: RE: A Tale of Two Cars

At least we got away from talking about Chevy's..............

Enough said about this string.....

I'm shutting up.......


I agree...to each his own.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Greg Beaulieu [SMTP:ab348@chebucto.ns.ca]
> Sent:	Monday, February 15, 1999 4:04 PM
> To:	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject:	RE: A Tale of Two Cars
> 
> On Mon, 15 Feb 1999 Mickey.Womack@ULTRAK.com wrote:
> > I can't recommend any new American car over a Toyota or
> Honda..........
> 
> A statement like this is a great way to start a debate that has no
> resolution and is likely to turn into a flame war...
> 
> Just about every manufacturer has good cars and bad ones. There is no
> right answer. I do tend to believe that there is a sort of
> brainwashing
> that goes on with owners of Hondas and the like though... they talk of
> how
> wonderful they are and that they never need repair, but don't blink
> twice
> at paying $200 to $500 for periodic dealer service that the
> manufactuer
> calls for. Then they usually trade them in sometime before they get 5
> years old, at which point (around here at least) they are about to rot
> away from rust. And don't even get me started on SUVs like the RAV4,
> the
> Grand Vitara and the like. :) I do know that my one and only new
> Toyota
> was a nice car, but had more than its share of troubles, some of them
> serious, despite careful maintenance. They are far from perfect.
> 
> If I had my druthers (and finances) right now, I think I would go for
> a
> Buick Regal or an Intrigue, or maybe a GMC pickup. But to each his
> own.
> 
> Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia,
> Canada
> 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:54:50 -0700
From: "Igor T. '81 DRB 455" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: BAD American Cars 

All this talk of bad Chryslers and '80s Oldses, I want to make a statement.
I think what that the problem of bad quality N. American cars has really
shown its ugly face in the early '80s to early '90s.  N. American cars have
been V8, carburetor powered for about 30 years, right.  Well, this
technology was perfected.  Besides, highway gears and big motor = low
operating stress and longer life.  When the emissions and fuel economy
really came in the late '70s and early '80s, Japanese cars were there to
take the market.  Tiny cars with Tiny engines, good fuel economy and no more
then decent reliability (what about those early Hondas).  N.A. manufactures
wanted to compete, but they essentially did not know HOW to make little
cars. They did not have the experience that the Europeans and Japanese had.
Small engines, new EFI technology and so on all combined to make a lousy
car.  I look at my old '86 Ford Taurus 4-cyl.  It was a terrible car, but
why? (NO, not only because it was a FORD).  Ford wanted an economical car
(so 4-cyl) that would still maintained a traditional American size (not
little Colts or Civics).  So they needed a 4-cyl that would push a
relatively big car like that around.  That meant decent gears (so high rev
on the high-way) and lightweight components.  So Ford used light material
for the motor, trans, and FWD. in order to keep the weight down and the car
mobile.  Light weight in a engine that they did not know much how to work
with is not a good prospect.  In addition, they needed to implement EFI into
the car which was new technology in itself and it was not a expensive car so
the system had to be cheap to build.  Well we all know about how sensitive
electronics stuff is.  Heat/Cold, static, etc.  Add this unproved, new (and
complex) technology to the small, lightweight, also unproved engine and it
is bound to suck.  Now take all that and drive the crap out of it (which you
had to) for a few years and a few miles, and the end result is a lousy car
compared to the big boats of yore powered by large CID engines, a
over-engineered TH400 and a simple rear axle set up.

So, the new small engines, new complex and unproved technology, lightweight
material and a hard use added to what all N.A. manufactures were faced with.
Japanese never had to deal with those problems.  They could copy a long
trend of European technology, put it in a tiny little car and off they went.
Also, being from Europe, I would have to add that over there, 100,000 miles
is very much and cars get old and bodies rot out before they see this kind
of mileage.  So, in Europe, it is easy for a motor to last 10 years when it
sees less then 100,000 miles.  In N.A., you see 100,000 miles in two to
three years or so, 5 at most.  Also, in Europe people drive faster,
BUT.....for a lot shorter distance.  When you travel across the US and you
are running your little car at 4000 RPM cruise for 2 weeks straight, that is
a lot harder on it then from Frankfurt to Munich for 40 mins.

------------------------------

Date: 15 Feb 99 15:54:27 MST
From: RSTOMN <restoman@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: [Re: [BB Intake]]

oldsmobile-mml-owner@chebucto.ns.ca wrote:
Bruce,

	Thanks for the offer, but it would take too big of a shoehorn to funnel
my Holley 750 DP down that 2-BBL throat ;) I know they make adapters,
but that's not the kind of setup I want to run.

Thanks anyway
Stephen
 
That thing is sooo heavy it would prob cost 9-$$million
to ship anyway.........just took a look and the giant
2-bbl is still on it.....wow..just think of the tremendus
gas milage (yeah-sure)..........................B.



> .......................................................
> How about 2-bbl. 455 intake?
> 
> RESTOMAN
> 
> ____________________________________________________________________
> More than just email--Get your FREE Netscape WebMail account today at
http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail


RESTOMAN

____________________________________________________________________
More than just email--Get your FREE Netscape WebMail account today at 
http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:59:57 -0500
From: "Master Costanzo" <costanzo@netcarrier.com>
Subject: RE: It's ALIVE!!!

nice one bill

Ray Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass (hibernating)
84 Calais ($200!)
costanzo@netcarrier.com
http://www.user1.netcarrier.com/~costanzo

- -----Original Message-----
From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of Bill Reilly
Sent: Monday, February 15, 1999 5:48 PM
To: oldsmobile; Olds G Body
Subject: It's ALIVE!!!


Major success today!  I finally got my '85 Cutlass up and running again!!
WOOHOO!!

The 455 started and ran very well for the minute or so I let it.  The brakes
aren't finished and the shifter's not hooked up so I didn't try and drive
it.

It sounded so ~nice~, especially since it doesn't have an exhaust hooked up
either ;-)

I still have a lot to get done, but the first major hurdle has been
overcome.

Bill Reilly
mailto: wjreilly@erols.com
Web Page: (Not yet)

My Garage:
'83 Cutlass Ciera
'84 Cutlass Supreme Brougham
'85 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:05:22 -0600
From: Mickey.Womack@ULTRAK.com
Subject: RE: BAD American Cars 

Very well said.

Thanks for the input.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Igor T. '81 DRB 455 [SMTP:igor455@home.com]
> Sent:	Monday, February 15, 1999 4:55 PM
> To:	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject:	BAD American Cars 
> 
> All this talk of bad Chryslers and '80s Oldses, I want to make a
> statement.
> I think what that the problem of bad quality N. American cars has
> really
> shown its ugly face in the early '80s to early '90s.  N. American cars
> have
> been V8, carburetor powered for about 30 years, right.  Well, this
> technology was perfected.  Besides, highway gears and big motor = low
> operating stress and longer life.  When the emissions and fuel economy
> really came in the late '70s and early '80s, Japanese cars were there
> to
> take the market.  Tiny cars with Tiny engines, good fuel economy and
> no more
> then decent reliability (what about those early Hondas).  N.A.
> manufactures
> wanted to compete, but they essentially did not know HOW to make
> little
> cars. They did not have the experience that the Europeans and Japanese
> had.
> Small engines, new EFI technology and so on all combined to make a
> lousy
> car.  I look at my old '86 Ford Taurus 4-cyl.  It was a terrible car,
> but
> why? (NO, not only because it was a FORD).  Ford wanted an economical
> car
> (so 4-cyl) that would still maintained a traditional American size
> (not
> little Colts or Civics).  So they needed a 4-cyl that would push a
> relatively big car like that around.  That meant decent gears (so high
> rev
> on the high-way) and lightweight components.  So Ford used light
> material
> for the motor, trans, and FWD. in order to keep the weight down and
> the car
> mobile.  Light weight in a engine that they did not know much how to
> work
> with is not a good prospect.  In addition, they needed to implement
> EFI into
> the car which was new technology in itself and it was not a expensive
> car so
> the system had to be cheap to build.  Well we all know about how
> sensitive
> electronics stuff is.  Heat/Cold, static, etc.  Add this unproved, new
> (and
> complex) technology to the small, lightweight, also unproved engine
> and it
> is bound to suck.  Now take all that and drive the crap out of it
> (which you
> had to) for a few years and a few miles, and the end result is a lousy
> car
> compared to the big boats of yore powered by large CID engines, a
> over-engineered TH400 and a simple rear axle set up.
> 
> So, the new small engines, new complex and unproved technology,
> lightweight
> material and a hard use added to what all N.A. manufactures were faced
> with.
> Japanese never had to deal with those problems.  They could copy a
> long
> trend of European technology, put it in a tiny little car and off they
> went.
> Also, being from Europe, I would have to add that over there, 100,000
> miles
> is very much and cars get old and bodies rot out before they see this
> kind
> of mileage.  So, in Europe, it is easy for a motor to last 10 years
> when it
> sees less then 100,000 miles.  In N.A., you see 100,000 miles in two
> to
> three years or so, 5 at most.  Also, in Europe people drive faster,
> BUT.....for a lot shorter distance.  When you travel across the US and
> you
> are running your little car at 4000 RPM cruise for 2 weeks straight,
> that is
> a lot harder on it then from Frankfurt to Munich for 40 mins.
> 
> 

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #1777
*********************************

