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Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #1733


oldsmobile-digest      Monday, January 25 1999      Volume 01 : Number 1733



Re: Cowl Tag Repair, reconstruction
Ooops! 308' cam and power valve delete option mistake
Re: Q-J rich @ idle / power valve testing
Re: Air Shocks
PCV in New Mickey Thompson Al Rocker Covers + More
Re: Igor's Links....My name my page, but no link?!?
Need a solution to my Key problem
Re: Igor's Links....My name my page, but no link?!?
Re: Need a solution to my Key problem
Help!  86 cutlass gauges
RE: Confused parts clerks
RE: motor oil recommendations?
Re:  308' cam and power valve delete option mistake
RE: Another Olds web page
A & B,C Trailing Arms Swap!
Re: Confused parts clerks
water injection
Tire Price Question
Re: Confused parts clerks
Re: Igor's Links....My name my page, but no link?!?
Re: Need a solution to my Key problem
Re: Old car tires
Re: Tire Price Question
Re: motor oil recommendations?
Re: Confused parts clerks
Re: Tire Price Question
Re: Confused parts clerks
Re: Confused parts clerks
Re: More coil spring retention
Re: Water Injection was: 215 Turbo Info
Re: Water Injection was: 215 Turbo Info
Re: Igor's Links....My name my page, but no link?!?
BMW Game was: Confused parts clerks
UNBOUNCE: 86 cutlass gauges
UNBOUNCE: Re: motor oil recommendations?
Re: Need a solution to my Key problem
Re: Tire Price Question
Re: Tire Price Question
H*lp! New bumper
Re: Tire Price Question
Re: Olds on MCC this coming weekend
Re: Igor's Links....My name my page, but no link?!?
Re: Olds on MCC this coming weekend
Re: AXLE CODES
Re: Old car tires
Re: Old car tires
Rear Springs!
Re: Old car tires
Shade Tree Mechanic tire talk (a bit long)
Re: Old car tires
Re: Shade Tree Mechanic tire talk (a bit long)
Re: Olds on MCC this coming weekend
Re: Old car tires
Re: Shade Tree Mechanic tire talk (a bit long)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:09:47 EST
From: R4C442@aol.com
Subject: Re: Cowl Tag Repair, reconstruction

Hi Steve!
    I think the worst thing you can do is to: Allow yourself to think that if
you get a repoduction cowl tag it will suffice as original and: alter the
original tag. The car and it's tag are for real (as I understand the
situation). Why change anything ? The fire happened and that is part of the
car's life, if you will.
                                                        Ron Forsee
                                                        65 442-Meister
(Original owner with many catastrophic stories)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:16:22 -0500
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Ooops! 308' cam and power valve delete option mistake

To whomever has rough-idle problems with their 308' cam and open-plane
intake...

I mistakenly implied that the 1970 W-30 455's with the 308' cams had the
power circuit (spring, piston, primary rods) deleted from the Q-jet; in
fact, the 308' cammed 455 cars did use a power valve circuit. It was the
328' cammed 455 cars (the manual trans units) and the 308' cammed 350
W-31's that used 2-bbl primary jets instead of the power valve circuit.

Still, with an open-plane intake, manifold vacuum may be at a premium and
keeping your power circuit activated at idle, causing the motor to run rich.

Let us know if you get it smoothed out!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:17:31 -0500
From: David Brode <dbrode@hereintown.net>
Subject: Re: Q-J rich @ idle / power valve testing

Hello all,
 I wanted to pass on a way to test the power valve, to see if the spring is to 
strong for a given idle vacuum quantity.
 With the engine off, take a short piece of plastic drinking straw, and insert 
it into the front vent hole. "Find" the top of the power
piston, and push down to make sure you have the straw "tool" located 
correctly. You will be able to push the piston down with the straw
[if it's not stuck].
 Start the engine and have a helper put the car in gear [if automatic]. The 
piston should stay down. If it isn't remaining down at
idle, you need a lighter power valve spring.
 Edelbrock sells the springs in various strengths for tuning needs.
 Note - if you go to weak, the carb will be to slow to richen as you open the 
throttle, and you'll have a flat spot [lean].
Dave Brode
64 Cutlass

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:40:11 EST
From: DrkSole96@aol.com
Subject: Re: Air Shocks

In a message dated 99-01-25 11:52:38 EST, you write:

<< Well, perhaps I will just get 15x8" rims, that way I don't have to worry
 about rubbing.  Don't really like to see a 295/50/15 on an 8" rim, though.
 What I plan to do with the air-shocks is runs a on-board compressor and dual
 lines (if I can).  275/60/15s would be good on the back but I don't want to
 effectively reduce my gear ratio (compromises, compromises).  Thanks for all
 the info guys.  With 15x8s and air-shocks, I could lower the car and still
 boost it up when load demands.  Igor.
 
  >>

Well, if you're worried about tire clearance JC Whitney sells springs that are
supposed to give around 4" lift to clear large tires.  Around $100 a set..

DrkSole96@aol.com
73 Cutlass Supreme
93 Grand Prix

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 13:41:15 -0800
From: "Reed, Stephen" <sreed@chatsworth.com>
Subject: PCV in New Mickey Thompson Al Rocker Covers + More

Hey all,
	I've gotten a set of M/T's (new) for my 455.  I need one PCV hole
right?  (I'm not sure if I'm going to use my free 850 Double Pumper or not).

1.   Does anyone happen to have the hole dimensions in the valve cover for
this hole, approximately .750 diameter?

2.  Would you suggest a Holley 850 DP for this 455 Balanced, Ported, 10:1,
JM 22-25 Cam (Guessing from memory, bought 4 years ago Street/Strip), roller
tip rockers, S/S Valves, Dual Plane Manifold, 4 Speed, Additional Vacuum
canister??

4.  Do I need a hole in BOTH covers?  One for PCV & one for Breather?

3.  Anyone know of any 'Decent' looking breathers for the valve covers?  The
'Ededbrock' ones in summit look like CRAP!

ANY HELP is appreciated!  This car WILL be together by summer and hopefully
99 Nationals in Dallas!!!

Steve Reed
'70 4-4-2 'Ragtop
Austin, TX

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:02:03 -0700
From: "Igor T. '81 DRB 455" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Re: Igor's Links....My name my page, but no link?!?

>Igor, I went to your page just a sec ago so I could add it to my links
page,
>and I saw my pages name, but its not a llink, um, wanna fix that :)?
>Kelly Erickson
>1966 Cutlass
>1954 Super 88  (anyone want the damn thing?)
>1968 Cutlass Supreme (my daddy-o's)
>http://www.angelfire.com/wa/Olds442z/index.html


Yeah, sorry.  I don't remember, but I either lost the link or it did not
work.  I was hoping that you would notice and tell me.  Same goes for anyone
else, if they want their link there, just tell me.  Will fix it tonight.
Igor.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:04:43 -0400
From: Matt Cremean <creme1ma@cmich.edu>
Subject: Need a solution to my Key problem

Ok, so in the event that I buy The Unit, I find that it has come with
two ignition keys and no door keys. How can I go about getting keys for
the doors, especially if the original is gone? Would I need to go to a
dealer and have them run the VIN or something? Please help me, I'd like
to be able to lock and unlock the doors!
- -- 
|============|
Matt Cremean
mailto:creme1ma@cmich.edu
|=========================|
'73 Cutlass Supreme
'70 Cutlass 'S'
'75 Cutlass 'S'
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/
|=================================================|

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:04:47 EST
From: Gutlass66@aol.com
Subject: Re: Igor's Links....My name my page, but no link?!?

ahhh, no problem Igor, thats a great page. I want a scaner so bad :(. My poor
oldsmobile will never get its pictures online :(

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:15:07 -0500
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: Need a solution to my Key problem

How can I go about getting keys for
the doors, especially if the original is gone?
_________

Remove one of the lock cylinders from the door (either one will work).  If
the cylinders are original, there will be an alphanumeric code stamped on
the side of the cylinder.  It's been a while, but I think it will be four
letters/numbers.  This code can be translated into the key pattern.  I used
to get mine done at the dealer, but I don't know if they still have
reference books that go back that far.  I'd check there first, as they have
a tool which will cleanly punch a new key (much more desireable than
cutting one).  Failing that, a locksmith should also be able to translate
the code into a key pattern.  Note that you should also bring the lock
cylinder with you to ensure that you get the correct key blank.  And, yes,
you'll need to remove the inner door upholstery panel to get the lock
cylinder off.

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 17:22:52 -0500
From: Brian Shankle <cshankle@home.com>
Subject: Help!  86 cutlass gauges

I am having a rough time converting to Rallye Gauges!

I think I finally got my wires rearranged to change over from standard
to rallye gauges.  I have two wires left over from the old setup which
appear to be illumination and ground for an extra illumination light
located at the bottom of the original gauge package.  These can be taped
and remain unused.  I have two spaces left over in my original setup,
marked 4 and 14.  On Superolds' tech page, he says that 4 is for oil
pressure and 14 is for the tach.  I know I have to run a new wire for
the tach but do I also have to run one for the new oil pressure sender? 
Also, there is already a white wire plugged into the tach slot in my
distributor cap.  WHere does this go?  There are no white wires behind
the instrument panel so it doesn't match anything under there.
	I figured out which one was the oil pressure sender, but I couldn't
figure out which one was for water temperature.  There are two under
there that are really close to each other.  Which is which?  That may do
it for now.  I think these are the only problems I have so far.  Thanks
in advance,
Brian.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:24:48 -0500
From: "Master Costanzo" <costanzo@netcarrier.com>
Subject: RE: Confused parts clerks

I may be repeating myself here, I foget...

There is no such engine as a 403 made by Oldsmobile.  I have a 400.
This is according to Big A.

Ray Costanzo
87 409 (400+.042843) Cutlass (hibernating)
84 Calais ($200!)
costanzo@netcarrier.com
http://www.user1.netcarrier.com/~costanzo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:28:26 -0500
From: "Master Costanzo" <costanzo@netcarrier.com>
Subject: RE: motor oil recommendations?

Master Costanzo's opinions:

- -----Original Message-----


Hi Guys

Hi!

Slowly but surely getting to the point where I can turn the key:

* What kind of Motor Oil would you recommend for my new rebuilt 350
  (stock), .60 over, in the warm climate of Louisiana?

Castrol 10W40

* When is the first oil change due on a new rebuild?

1000 miles is recommended.  And then 2000 miles after that as well.  Then
every 3000 as normal.  But hey, you've got a fresh engine, why not start a
2000 mile routine?

Still nobody replied to my earlier question:

sorry

* Will a carb spacer get some more response in the lower rpm range when
  used on a single plane intake manifold?

maybe...You'll at least get an extra horse or two because of a slight
temperature decrease...

Thanks for your input! Regards,

you're welcome!

George
- --------------------------------------------------------------
'68 Cuttlass S Conv.
http://estimator.camd.lsu.edu/georg/sparetime/olds.html
- --------------------------------------------------------------

Ray Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass (hibernating)
84 Calais ($200!)
costanzo@netcarrier.com
http://www.user1.netcarrier.com/~costanzo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:31:18 EST
From: RARE73OLDS@aol.com
Subject: Re:  308' cam and power valve delete option mistake

Try drilling a small hole in each primary butterfly that helps things out alot
as olds used that hot rod trick in my 73 455 with four speed because of the
cam .That cam in the four speed car was a little too radical for the idle to
be stable .I also had that problem in my 67 W30 which has that 308 cam and i
drilled the holes..problem was gone! I am not sure as to the size of the
hole...about the diameter of a 6penny nail. Probably in some quadrajet book
out there. Hot Rod Harry from NJ 
<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/magsurv/index.html">1973 Olds Cutlass 455
4speed</A> 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:33:21 -0500
From: "Master Costanzo" <costanzo@netcarrier.com>
Subject: RE: Another Olds web page

Yes, a very nice car!  The lines of a convertible are greatest.
Now, I notice you're using Frontpage 98.  Can you email me a copy? ha!
I had 97 until I reformatted and the guy I originally got it off of is no
longer the employer of my friend...

Ray Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass (hibernating)
84 Calais ($200!)
costanzo@netcarrier.com
http://www.user1.netcarrier.com/~costanzo

- -----Original Message-----
>Me too! Me too!
>
>I too have made a hack at putting my Olds up on the web.  It
>can be seen at
>http://people.ne.mediaone.net/andymikesell/OldsDelta88.htm.
>Let me know what you think!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:51:24 -0800
From: Chris Fair <cfair@FairIsaac.com>
Subject: A & B,C Trailing Arms Swap!

Got my 98 conv. back. with a shiny (well greasy) nice not new 3.08 ratio in
it. I've been running a 2.73 for years and hated it forever. in 66 3.08:1
was the standard ratio.

Along the way, I took what I thought of as a calculated risk that the
Hotchkiss A-body stuff would bolt up correctly to my 1966 98.  They work. 

Yes. A body trailing arms both the upper (inner) and lower (outer) swap into
the 1966 big cars. The suspension was the same for the 88's and 98's
from 1965-1970, so by extension this should work for other years too.

What this means is that you other guys with big cars can get & use those
boxed trailing arms that Hotchkiss builds for the Cutlass / 442. 

And run a rear sway bar from Addco. You'd be amazed at how a rear sway bar
flattens out the cornering in the big cars. Much better.

Now I just gotta get these parts for the Starfire. By the way -- anybody got
a 3.23 ring & pinion for my Starfire?

cf

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:58:30 -0600
From: "Greg" <zimmermangm@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Confused parts clerks

I once  bought a new aluminum Olds water pump for $50 from Advance auto
parts.  I went back to a different store recently to see if they still could
get them.  The clerk tried to convice me that my '71 olds 350 uses the same
exact water pump as the small block chevy in a corvette.  I argued for
awhile, then gave up.

No wonder I don't let anyone else work on my car.

- -greg

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:51 
From: "John Carri" <jcarri@alesis1.usa.com>
Subject: water injection

   
    Here's what I know, from David Vizards "Performance with Economy" 
book and a few other sources :

   1) Gasoline of adequate octane to prevent knock makes more power
than lower octane gas plus water injection

   2) If the gasoline you're using has inadequate octane to support 
all the ignition advance the engine wants for max power, and you're 
running reduced ignition timing to prevent knock, then water injection
can increase horsepower by letting you run the full ignition timing.
The increased ignition timing, of course, also has the side benefit of
improving mpg.

   An obvious spin-off from item (2) is that if you can put up with 
some slight loss of horsepower, but would like the economy of running 
regular 87 octane gas without hurting your engine, you can do this by 
adding water injection.  Alternatively if your engine has such a high 
compression ratio that the best gas available today (street gas I 
mean, not racing fuel) is inadequate, you can use water injection
instead of octane boosters.

   From what I read, water injection has a long and honourable 
history. Some British piston-engined fighter aircraft used it in WWII, 
to let them run very high compression for max power. Vizard himself 
did dyno tests on a C*evy small-block and, if I remember right, 
managed to run it at something like 13:1 compression on 87 octane gas 
by adding water injection!  So the basic idea is not snake oil, though
claims of 50% improvement in mpg or whatever probably ARE snake oil.

   I'm curious about this, but so far I haven't tried it. My '72 
Supreme, with only 8.5:1 compression, still pings in the hot LA 
summers on 92 octane gas unless I keep the ignition timing very 
conservative. I drive my Olds 40 miles round-trip every day, I would 
love to be able to use 87 octane and save the gas money for more 
goodies for the Olds (suspension rebuild, fat tyres on big wheels, a 
cam swap, etc, etc...). As far as I know Edelbrock stopped making 
their water injection ("Varajection") system a few years ago. Spearco 
was supposed to make one, I haven't heard anything about it recently.
Still, as someone pointed out, all it would take is a windshield 
washer pump/reservoir, a vacuum switch, and some ingenuity.

- -John Carri
'72 Supreme
'73 Plymouth Road Runner
   

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:01:40 -0500
From: Cliff McFarlane <mcfrlan@bconnex.net>
Subject: Tire Price Question

List,

I am curious if you could help me out.  I'm sure that some of you on
this list have raised white letter tires on your cars, BFG's or what
have you. My question is I was wondering if you could give me an idea of
what you paid per tire for yours.  What ever size they may be, it
doesn't matter, just as long as they are raised white letter tires. If
you could tell me what size tire you have it would help me out.  I'm
trying to see if I can afford it or if I would be getting ripped off. 
Thanks in advance.

Brad McFarlane

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:05:24 EST
From: Gutlass66@aol.com
Subject: Re: Confused parts clerks

Haha, Guy at Al's auto supply here saw my dads Cutlass Supreme, asks to see
under the hood, sees the "Rocket 350" pie pan and goes, what a nice 455 in
this 442! I almost fell over cracking up. He said it had to be a 442 since it
has dual exhaust and a quadrajet, the 350's had carters he had (i think this
boy ate paint chips). He told us about his dads 69 442 with a 455 Stock, he
didn't say one correct thing, except that It's an oldsmobile

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:10:26 -0700
From: Cliff Simpson <csimpson@ucalgary.ca>
Subject: Re: Igor's Links....My name my page, but no link?!?

I'm sure you and everyone else knows this but, most copy shops have computers
that you may use to scan something for a low cost.  If you only have a few
pictures it may be cheaper, easier, and quicker then getting a scanner.

Just a thought.

Gutlass66@aol.com wrote:
> 
> ahhh, no problem Igor, thats a great page. I want a scaner so bad :(. My poor
> oldsmobile will never get its pictures online :(

- -- 

Cliff Simpson
csimpson@ucalgary.ca
'69 442/400/th400/3.31p (Kermit) (soon to be a 455 :)
http://www.acs.ucalgary.ca/~csimpson/TheOldsZone.html

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:14:52 -0700
From: Cliff Simpson <csimpson@ucalgary.ca>
Subject: Re: Need a solution to my Key problem

If you pull one lock to get the code you could also pull both and just replace
them.  Locksmiths still carry these and they are less then $10 each.

It's just a thought if you are worried about the existing ones being worn.

Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM wrote:
> 
> How can I go about getting keys for
> the doors, especially if the original is gone?
> _________
> 
> Remove one of the lock cylinders from the door (either one will work).  If
> the cylinders are original, there will be an alphanumeric code stamped on
> the side of the cylinder.  It's been a while, but I think it will be four
> letters/numbers.  This code can be translated into the key pattern.  I used
> to get mine done at the dealer, but I don't know if they still have
> reference books that go back that far.  I'd check there first, as they have
> a tool which will cleanly punch a new key (much more desireable than
> cutting one).  Failing that, a locksmith should also be able to translate
> the code into a key pattern.  Note that you should also bring the lock
> cylinder with you to ensure that you get the correct key blank.  And, yes,
> you'll need to remove the inner door upholstery panel to get the lock
> cylinder off.
- -- 

Cliff Simpson
csimpson@ucalgary.ca
'69 442/400/th400/3.31p (Kermit) (soon to be a 455 :)
http://www.acs.ucalgary.ca/~csimpson/TheOldsZone.html

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:13:44 -0600
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: Old car tires

Joe is correct here, when isn't he?, one added comment, on 255/60/15 for
exp., first # is tread width in Millimeters, 2nd is ratio, height to width,
60% of 255mm, # 3 is obliviously rim size.
Lou 

- ----------
> From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Old car tires
> Date: Monday, January 25, 1999 8:31 AM
> 
> What is the
> exact relation between the letter and number on the old
> bias ply tires as in a F70 or N70?  From what I gather the
> higher the letter the wider but I'm rather confused.
> ________
> 
> The higher the letter, the larger the tire is in diameter.  Note that
this
> is overall tire diameter, not rim diameter.  The number is the ratio of
> section height to section width, which is the same 70% as in a modern
> 225-70/15, for example.  Since the ratio of section height to width in
this
> example is fixed at 70%, an N70 tire would be taller than an F70 tire,
with
> the result that the section width would be proportionally wider (for a
> given rim diameter).  This is analagous to saying that a 245-60/14 is
wider
> than a 205-60/14, for the same reason, however in the case of modern tire
> terminology, it's the section width that you read out directly (the 245,
> for example), an since the ratio is fixed (60% in this example), you can
> infer that the 245-60/14 is a taller tire than the 205.
> 
> Joe Padavano
> padavano.joe@orbital.com
> 
> 66 442
> 68 W-30
> 69 H/O
> 69 442
> 70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:21:37 EST
From: Mikeytvb@aol.com
Subject: Re: Tire Price Question

i paid $70 each for bfg 245/60r14

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:26:47 -0600
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: motor oil recommendations?

George, 
May get different responses here, PERSONAL opinion only, could be wrong,
10W40, #2, 1000 miles max, every 3000 after, yes filter too, and # 3,yes!
Master Lou
lbiggs@intertek.net


- ----------
> From: George <cutlass@one.camd.lsu.edu>
> To: OldsML <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Subject: motor oil recommendations?
> Date: Monday, January 25, 1999 8:51 AM
> 
> 
> Hi Guys 
> 
> Slowly but surely getting to the point where I can turn the key:
> 
> * What kind of Motor Oil would you recommend for my new rebuilt 350 
>   (stock), .60 over, in the warm climate of Louisiana? 
> * When is the first oil change due on a new rebuild?
> 
> Still nobody replied to my earlier question:
> 
> * Will a carb spacer get some more response in the lower rpm range when 
>   used on a single plane intake manifold?
> 
> Thanks for your input! Regards, 
> 
> George
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> '68 Cuttlass S Conv. 
> http://estimator.camd.lsu.edu/georg/sparetime/olds.html
> --------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:24:09 EST
From: Onebil2mny@aol.com
Subject: Re: Confused parts clerks

In a message dated 1/25/1999 6:10:23 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Gutlass66@aol.com writes:

<< he didn't say one correct thing, except that It's an oldsmobile  >>

At least he got that right....  <<<snicker>>>

Bill K

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:30:55 -0500
From: Rebel1 <rebel1@raex.com>
Subject: Re: Tire Price Question

Cliff,
    Bought 235/60R14's for the '69 this summer (Kelly Chargers) paid $248
out the door with mount/balance/road hazzard.  Bought 2-215/65R15's and
2-255/60R15's for my '82 the summer before and paid $283 out the door (BFG
Radial T/A's) - Hope this helps!
Todd Daenzer
All the toys put away for the winter...

Cliff McFarlane wrote:

> List,
>
> I am curious if you could help me out.  I'm sure that some of you on
> this list have raised white letter tires on your cars, BFG's or what
> have you. My question is I was wondering if you could give me an idea of
> what you paid per tire for yours.  What ever size they may be, it
> doesn't matter, just as long as they are raised white letter tires. If
> you could tell me what size tire you have it would help me out.  I'm
> trying to see if I can afford it or if I would be getting ripped off.
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Brad McFarlane

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:33:36 -0700
From: Cliff Simpson <csimpson@ucalgary.ca>
Subject: Re: Confused parts clerks

Now a word from the other side...

A friend of mine works for Canadian Tire and this fellow struts in.  He's
wearing his mirrored aviator sunglasses even though it's night, has a gold
chain that visible because his silk shirt is unbuttoned to the 3rd button, and
his honey has more makeup on than Tammy Baker.  Customer asks for spark plugs
for a 74 'Vette so my buddy, snickering goes in the back and brings out 4
plugs.  Customer asks "What's this?"  Buddy says "Spark plugs for a 1974
Chevette."

Apparently the customer had a Corvette and no sense of humor:))
- -- 

Cliff Simpson
csimpson@ucalgary.ca
'69 442/400/th400/3.31p (Kermit) (soon to be a 455 :)
http://www.acs.ucalgary.ca/~csimpson/TheOldsZone.html

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:34:40 -0500
From: Rebel1 <rebel1@raex.com>
Subject: Re: Confused parts clerks

Onebil2mny@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 1/25/1999 6:10:23 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> Gutlass66@aol.com writes:
>
> << he didn't say one correct thing, except that It's an oldsmobile  >>
>
> At least he got that right....  <<<snicker>>>
>
> Bill K

Boy now I know why I always shop at my local Car Quest store!
Todd Daenzer
All the toys put away for the winter

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:39:04 -0600
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: More coil spring retention

Joe:
This is your area, well put, heck, I wouldn't know if it was wrong anyway,
sure don't think so. Take care.
Lou

- ----------
> From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: More coil spring retension
> Date: Monday, January 25, 1999 11:56 AM
> 
> Just another note on the structural capability of the fasteners holding
the
> rear shocks in place.  These are, what, 5/16" bolts?  Assuming that they
> are made of low-grade steel (50,000 psi tensile yield - a crappy grade 3
> bolt), the root diameter of a 5/16" bolt is about 0.250" (root diameter
is
> the minimum cross section of a threaded fastener).  That root diameter
> yields a cross section area of 0.049 square inches, which  when
multiplied
> by 50,000 psi yields a tensile allowable of 2454 lbs per bolt!  In other
> words, the two shock bolts by themselves could easily be used to lift the
> entire car.
> 
> Now, obviously this doesn't take into account fatigue or manufacturing
> flaws in the fasteners, or whatever, but keep in mind that the only thing
> the bolts need to hold are a hundred pounds or so of compressed spring
> force.  Not a problem!
> 
> Joe Padavano
> padavano.joe@orbital.com
> 
> 66 442
> 68 W-30
> 69 H/O
> 69 442
> 70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:43:04 -0700
From: Ben <olds442@primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Water Injection was: 215 Turbo Info

>

If it means that much to you, okay. But I didn't know who said it or not. I
just took ONE of the MANY strings on the subject clipped the parts that I
wasn't refering to and used it. I can't help it if my email program give
credit to the wrong person. I just see it, read it, and respond regardless.
This isn't a contest on who can say the most, but just a sharing of
information.

Ben

> in the future we should all try to take care to attribute quotes to the
> correct originator.  The words you have attributed to me were, in fact, a
> quote in my post from a prior question.  While in this case there was
> certainly no issue with the mis-attributed quote, in other cases somewhat
> inflamatory posts have been attributed to the wrong originator.  Let's all
> please try to be more careful in the future.
>
> Thanks
>
> Joe Padavano
> padavano.joe@orbital.com
>
> 66 442
> 68 W-30
> 69 H/O
> 69 442
> 70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:46:17 -0600
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: Water Injection was: 215 Turbo Info

To Joe P:
Some of the old WW!! aircraft had water injection which supposedly
increased horsepower for emergencies, but the pilots were warned NOT to use
it a lot as it hurt the engine, are you familiar with this? What and why?
Lou

- ----------
> From: Ben <olds442@primenet.com>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Water Injection was: 215 Turbo Info
> Date: Monday, January 25, 1999 1:00 PM
> 
> If you look at the physics side, there are many benefits. The water, yes
is
> vaporised, but that is what you need. Just as the fuel becomes vapor the
water
> needs to also. It cools the intake runners and the fuel/air/water mixture
> making it denser and more stable for combustion. Once inside the chamber,
water
> doesn't compress as well as gas, and hense you actually get a "tighter"
> combustion, and then the ignition. The fuel and air ignite and cause the
water
> to rapidly expand also and turns into steam. This steam effectivly
"scrubs" the
> valves, chamber, spark plug, piston all the build up will eventually come
off
> and stay off. The water is then pushed out as an exhaust. I haven't heard
of
> rusting heads, pistons, or exhaust from this so I wouldn't worry too much
about
> that. the amount of water is very small and it's atomized/vaporised so
there
> will be little or no damage if the engine sits for long periods of time
with
> the water injection hooked up at last running. Because the water is
atomized
> and replaces some of the fuel in the mixture, you will be able to turn
down
> your air/fuel mixture screws a bit. the effects are cleaner burning, less
> emissions, better economy, and more efficient burning/steaming causes
more
> horsepower. Granted it's not racing improvments but for the "tinkerer"
and
> economist, these are added benefits and if done cheaply, then why not?
> 
> Ben
> anybody need a set of C heads from a 68???
> Email me: olds442@primenet.com
> 
> Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM wrote:
> 
> > In addition to knock reduction, I've read all sorts of claims on some
of
> > the
> > more "imaginative" websites dealing with fuel economy that these water
> > injection systems eliminate knock, significantly boost fuel economy,
> > increase
> > power, reduce emissions...seek out new life and new civilizations...
> > Anyway,
> > any truth to these claims or is it just snake oil?  Personally, I feel
a
> > bit
> > squeemish about squirting water into my engine.
> 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:46:52 -0500
From: Rebel1 <rebel1@raex.com>
Subject: Re: Igor's Links....My name my page, but no link?!?

Igor,
    I just checked out your page and I have to say that your Delta 88 is hands
down one SWEEEEET ride!  Can hardly wait to see pics of the finished product!
The hood induction looks great - is it functional?
Cool car either way!
Todd Daenzer
All the toys put away for the winter...


Gutlass66@aol.com wrote:

> Igor, I went to your page just a sec ago so I could add it to my links page,
> and I saw my pages name, but its not a llink, um, wanna fix that :)?
> Kelly Erickson
> 1966 Cutlass
> 1954 Super 88  (anyone want the damn thing?)
> 1968 Cutlass Supreme (my daddy-o's)
> http://www.angelfire.com/wa/Olds442z/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:48:28 -0800
From: Chris Fair <cfair@FairIsaac.com>
Subject: BMW Game was: Confused parts clerks

I have some friends with BMW's. One has a 540, the other a 535.  
From time to time I ask each how their "525" is. 
They never fail to correct me. It can also be fun to ask them how their
Volkswag*n is...

cf

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:47:25 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: UNBOUNCE: 86 cutlass gauges

The "H*LP" word bounced this; forwarding.

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:	Brian Shankle <cshankle@home.com>
Subject: H*lp!  86 cutlass gauges

I am having a rough time converting to Rallye Gauges!

I think I finally got my wires rearranged to change over from standard
to rallye gauges.  I have two wires left over from the old setup which
appear to be illumination and ground for an extra illumination light
located at the bottom of the original gauge package.  These can be taped
and remain unused.  I have two spaces left over in my original setup,
marked 4 and 14.  On Superolds' tech page, he says that 4 is for oil
pressure and 14 is for the tach.  I know I have to run a new wire for
the tach but do I also have to run one for the new oil pressure sender? 
Also, there is already a white wire plugged into the tach slot in my
distributor cap.  WHere does this go?  There are no white wires behind
the instrument panel so it doesn't match anything under there.
	I figured out which one was the oil pressure sender, but I couldn't
figure out which one was for water temperature.  There are two under
there that are really close to each other.  Which is which?  That may do
it for now.  I think these are the only problems I have so far.  Thanks
in advance,
Brian.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:50:02 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: UNBOUNCE: Re: motor oil recommendations?

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:	"mbloomer" <mbloomer@gateway.net>
Subject: Re: motor oil recommendations?

Peter's way of doing it is bordering on the side of overcaution but
there's nothing wrong with that.  There should be NO dirt in a freshly
rebuilt motor, though there may be some shavings but that shouldn't
be there either if the rebuild was done correctly.  The thing about the
lubes is that some of them don't completely dissolve in motor oil. =20
Personally, the only thing I agree with using as a lube aside from=20
regular motor oil is cam lube.  I have seen people use lithium grease
on the rods and mains but as long as you pre lube the motor before
firing it (spin the oil pump while turning the motor over by hand) motor
oil is all you need.  The problem comes from all the various "snake oil"
lubes that don't dissolve is that they clog up the oil filter.  Once the =

filter clogs it starts bypassing the filter and you have no way of =
telling.
This is the reason for changing the oil at 500 miles (my preference)
so that all the cam lube has a chance get trapped in the filter.  My
other personal preferance is to tap and plug the bypass in the filter
adapter so that if the oil press starts to drop I know to change the oil
and don't have to worry about unfiltered oil circulating in the motor=20
without me knowing it.  FYI the common cam lube for break in is
molybdebnium (sp?), or comonly called moly lube, and doesn't even=20
break down that well in a solvent tank.  Same stuff they pack in
CV joints and 30mm guns on Apaches.  =20

The thing about the auto trans using petroleum jelly to hold all the=20
balls in place is that ATF is something like 90% detergent which
is why they are always so clean inside.  The detergent will quickly
break down the vaseline where motor oil will not.

Mike B
mbloomer@mindspring.com
ICQ# 19113713
http://members.tripod.com/CutlassFreak/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:54:50 EST
From: GT5726@aol.com
Subject: Re: Need a solution to my Key problem

In a message dated 1/25/99 4:05:07 PM Central Standard Time,
creme1ma@cmich.edu writes:

<< Ok, so in the event that I buy The Unit, I find that it has come with
 two ignition keys and no door keys. How can I go about getting keys for
 the doors, especially if the original is gone? Would I need to go to a
 dealer and have them run the VIN or something? Please help me, I'd like
 to be able to lock and unlock the doors!
 --  >>


   Just go to PepBoys and buy a set of door and ignition locks with new
keys...cost would be about $30 and can be swapped in less than 2 hours

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:59:02 EST
From: GT5726@aol.com
Subject: Re: Tire Price Question

In a message dated 1/25/99 5:08:48 PM Central Standard Time,
mcfrlan@bconnex.net writes:

<< 
 I am curious if you could help me out.  I'm sure that some of you on
 this list have raised white letter tires on your cars, BFG's or what
 have you. My question is I was wondering if you could give me an idea of
 what you paid per tire for yours.  What ever size they may be, it
 doesn't matter, just as long as they are raised white letter tires. If
 you could tell me what size tire you have it would help me out.  I'm
 trying to see if I can afford it or if I would be getting ripped off. 
 Thanks in advance.
  >>


   I have B.F.Goodrich Radial T/A's ...size 245/60-14 rear($69), and size
215/70-14 front($57). Prices did not include mounting and balancing.

Collyn Eastham
65 442
65 Cutlass

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:20:49 -0600
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: Tire Price Question

To all:
Have TA radials, raised white, on everything I own, about 60 bucks a tire,
average, NO balancing included, St. Lou prices, usually very competitive
pricing.
Master Lou
lbiggs@intertek.net
- ----------
> From: GT5726@aol.com
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Tire Price Question
> Date: Monday, January 25, 1999 5:59 PM
>    I have B.F.Goodrich Radial T/A's ...size 245/60-14 rear($69), and size
> 215/70-14 front($57). Prices did not include mounting and balancing.
> 
> Collyn Eastham
> 65 442
> 65 Cutlass

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:26:32 EST
From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@juno.com>
Subject: H*lp! New bumper

Hi all,

A couple weeks ago I was asking if anybody had a decent (better than a
core) front bumper and grilles for my '69 Cutlass.  A few of you got back
to me, but nobody told me how much they wanted for their parts.  Well, I
should have the insurance check in my hands in less than a week, so I'm
ready to spend some money.  Here's what need.

For a 1969 Cutlass Supreme:
  Front bumper and all associated mounting brackets, braces, etc.
  Front grilles and headlight surrounds
  Center support that hood latch is mounted to
  Chrome trim for the left (drivers) side of the front hood edge.
  
~Might~ also need:
  Hood tongue
  Center "Rocket" emblem
  
A location close to Florida is desired for these parts, and I'm not
interested in NOS (not enough $$$ right now) or even repro parts, I just
need good, solid used parts to put my car back together with.

Thanks

Dave Paulison       1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
Palm Bay, Florida   1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@juno.com

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:35:56 -0600
From: "mbloomer" <mbloomer@gateway.net>
Subject: Re: Tire Price Question

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01BE4891.8B91D280
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Just bought BFG T/A's for the '68 and it ran me $240 for all 4 not
including mounting or balancing.  I got 235/60R14's for the front
and 275/60R15's for the back.  Keep in mind ~all~ the T/A's have
the raised white letter on one side.

Mike B
mbloomer@mindspring.com
ICQ# 19113713
http://members.tripod.com/CutlassFreak/

   =20
   =20
   =20
    I am curious if you could help me out.  I'm sure that some of you on
    this list have raised white letter tires on your cars, BFG's or what
    have you. My question is I was wondering if you could give me an =
idea of
    what you paid per tire for yours.  What ever size they may be, it
    doesn't matter, just as long as they are raised white letter tires. =
If
    you could tell me what size tire you have it would help me out.  I'm
    trying to see if I can afford it or if I would be getting ripped =
off.=20
    Thanks in advance.
   =20
    Brad McFarlane

- ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01BE4891.8B91D280
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>Just bought BFG T/A's for the '68 and it ran =
me $240=20
for all 4 not</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000></FONT>including mounting or balancing.&nbsp; =
I got=20
235/60R14's for the front</DIV>
<DIV>and 275/60R15's for the back.&nbsp; Keep in mind ~all~ the T/A's =
have</DIV>
<DIV>the raised white letter on one side.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><FONT size=3D3>Mike B<BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:mbloomer@gateway.net">mbloomer@mindspring.com</A><BR>ICQ# =

19113713<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://members.tripod.com/CutlassFreak/">http://members.tripod.co=
m/CutlassFreak</A></FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://members.tripod.com/CutlassFreak/">/</A><BR></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">&nbsp;</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">&nbsp;</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px"><BR>I=20
    am curious if you could help me out.&nbsp; I'm sure that some of you =

    on<BR>this list have raised white letter tires on your cars, BFG's =
or=20
    what<BR>have you. My question is I was wondering if you could give =
me an=20
    idea of<BR>what you paid per tire for yours.&nbsp; What ever size =
they may=20
    be, it<BR>doesn't matter, just as long as they are raised white =
letter=20
    tires. If<BR>you could tell me what size tire you have it would help =
me=20
    out.&nbsp; I'm<BR>trying to see if I can afford it or if I would be =
getting=20
    ripped off. <BR>Thanks in advance.<BR><BR>Brad=20
McFarlane</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01BE4891.8B91D280--

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:42:22 -0500
From: "Michael Davis" <mdavis@metrobankandtrust.com>
Subject: Re: Olds on MCC this coming weekend

What station is that on?  Never heard of MCC.  Thanks.
				Mike Davis
				68' 442

- ----------
> From: Semantana Chris (ONEX) <SemantanaC@tce.com>
> To: 'oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca'
> Subject: Olds on MCC this coming weekend
> Date: Monday, January 25, 1999 1:16 PM
> 
> Hi all,
> Was watching My Classic Car this weekend and at the end of the show when
> they do previews for next week, they mentioned the spotlighted vehicle.
> FYI, this past weekends was the Ampicar.  Well, next weekend will be a
> "special Oldsmobile"  The picture they showed was of a white 68, and I'm
> guessing it's gonna be the W-30 model (looked similar to yours Joe P)
from
> the brief shot I got.  So needless to say I've already marked my
calendar,
> may even pop a tape into the VCR, just need to find one.
> 
> Chris Smetana
> Terre Haute, IN
> http://www.abcs.com/chris/
> 
> 1969 W-31
> 1969 4-4-2 parts car
> plus others

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:51:19 -0500
From: "Dave Cullen" <david.cullen@snet.net>
Subject: Re: Igor's Links....My name my page, but no link?!?

- -----Original Message-----
From: Gutlass66@aol.com <Gutlass66@aol.com>

> I want a scaner so bad :(. My poor
>oldsmobile will never get its pictures online :(

I get all my pictures deveoped at the local Kodak depot (Walgreens), and opt
for "Pictures on Disk", an extra charge but worth it to have .jpg files done
for the whole roll of film.

drc

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:25:17 -0500
From: "C Thomas" <cthomas@stny.lrun.com>
Subject: Re: Olds on MCC this coming weekend

My Classic Car Its on saturdays at 3:00 and you can also catch it sunday
Nights at 11:00 thats eastern time Its on TNN after all of those fishing
shows and its usually right after Motor Trend TV.

Chad Thomas
www.442.com/cthomas.html
- -----Original Message-----
From: Michael Davis <mdavis@metrobankandtrust.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Monday, January 25, 1999 7:50 PM
Subject: Re: Olds on MCC this coming weekend


>What station is that on?  Never heard of MCC.  Thanks.
> Mike Davis
> 68' 442
>
>----------
>> From: Semantana Chris (ONEX) <SemantanaC@tce.com>
>> To: 'oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca'
>> Subject: Olds on MCC this coming weekend
>> Date: Monday, January 25, 1999 1:16 PM
>>
>> Hi all,
>> Was watching My Classic Car this weekend and at the end of the show when
>> they do previews for next week, they mentioned the spotlighted vehicle.
>> FYI, this past weekends was the Ampicar.  Well, next weekend will be a
>> "special Oldsmobile"  The picture they showed was of a white 68, and I'm
>> guessing it's gonna be the W-30 model (looked similar to yours Joe P)
>from
>> the brief shot I got.  So needless to say I've already marked my
>calendar,
>> may even pop a tape into the VCR, just need to find one.
>>
>> Chris Smetana
>> Terre Haute, IN
>> http://www.abcs.com/chris/
>>
>> 1969 W-31
>> 1969 4-4-2 parts car
>> plus others

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:29:05 EST
From: Dizyizy1@aol.com
Subject: Re: AXLE CODES

Try WWW.442.com and go into OLDs FAQ  look for differentail codes  it will
tell you

Unless youve already been there

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:29:34 -0500
From: "RANDY A GEISEL" <RANDYGEISEL@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Old car tires

>Joe is correct here, when isn't he?, one added comment, on >255/60/15 for
exp., first # is tread width in Millimeters, 2nd is ratio, >height to width,
60% of 255mm, # 3 is obliviously rim size.
>Lou

Lou,
You musta been watching Shade Tree Mechanic this past weekend.

Randy

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:00:52 -0800 (PST)
From: John Pajak <jspajak@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Old car tires

You wrote:
What is the exact relation between the letter and number on the old
bias ply tires as in a F70 or N70?  

>>I'm looking for this same info. What exactly does the E, F, G mean
in inches?  70 series, 78 series, I understand that. But without an
inch equivalent to the letter sizes there is no way to calculate the
original tire heights!

>>P.S. I also was led to believe that the old tires like a 8.00-14
were an 82 aspect ratio. 



==
"2 + 2 = 5 for sufficiently large values of 2"

John Pajak
Lexington Park, Maryland

Check out our cars, trucks and a whole lot more at
http://members.tripod.com/~JSPajak
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:09:33 -0800 (PST)
From: John Pajak <jspajak@yahoo.com>
Subject: Rear Springs!

     Regarding rear springs:

1) Contrary to an earlier post, you do not have to remove the control
arms to change the springs! All that is needed is to disconnect the
shocks at the bottom and drop the rearend a few inches below its
normal travel. The springs then literally fall out. Don't drop the
axle too far though or you'll tear the rubber brake line!

2) As long as the shocks are bolted in the springs will not fall out!
Put the car up on a frame lift and see for yourself if you don't
believe me!

3) The rear spring indexing mentioned in the service manual allows the
maximum clearance for the tailpipes!

Hope this helps!


==
"2 + 2 = 5 for sufficiently large values of 2"

John Pajak
Lexington Park, Maryland

Check out our cars, trucks and a whole lot more at
http://members.tripod.com/~JSPajak
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:09:18 -0600
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: Old car tires

Randy, 
Both, knew it and they said it too, gee wanted to come across as smart!
Darn.
Lou

- ----------
> From: RANDY A GEISEL <RANDYGEISEL@prodigy.net>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Old car tires
> Date: Monday, January 25, 1999 7:29 PM
> 
> 
> >Joe is correct here, when isn't he?, one added comment, on >255/60/15
for
> exp., first # is tread width in Millimeters, 2nd is ratio, >height to
width,
> 60% of 255mm, # 3 is obliviously rim size.
> >Lou
> 
> Lou,
> You musta been watching Shade Tree Mechanic this past weekend.
> 
> Randy

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 21:07:39 -0500
From: "Mike Rothe." <hurstolds@xtalwind.net>
Subject: Shade Tree Mechanic tire talk (a bit long)

> You musta been watching Shade Tree Mechanic this past weekend.


You know, I watched a little bit of that too.  They did go over tire
sizes and deciphering what's on a tire.

However, they lacked something, or I guess, didn't explain everything
about the number/letter ratings for treadwear, traction and temperature. 

I took a front end suspension and alignment course several years ago at
a local college just to see if I could learn anything new, which, to my
dismay, the only cool thing I got was to do a "lab" on my own car and
end up with a free alignment outta the deal.  But in the class there was
a whole section on tires and how to determine possible problems just by
the treadwear pattern.  This is what I gleened from the course compared
to what they explained on Shade Tree Mech.:

Treadwear they said showed the number rating for the life expectancy of
the tire tread.  An example they showed was rated 220.  They said the
higher the number the harder the compound, and vice versa.  What they
FAILED to tell you was that number is arbitrary.  100 is the established
"standard" for treadwear rating, and using 220 here, you would expect
the tire to last 2.2 times as long as the standard which no one seems to
know what that standard correlates to.  It's a good indicator, but it's
just a guidline.  I use it mainly to guage a tire's compound softness
over another.

They also said the traction was for straight line traction.  Somewhat
true, but again, didn't tell all.  It's a wet road rating during braking
in a straight line.  "A" being the best, with "C" being the worst.

The temperature they said was for how well the tire could handle
temperatures.  Again, sorta.  It's actually a rating of how well a tire
DISSIPATES heat while rolling over the road.  The "A" thru "C" rating
applies here as well.

Of course, all these are D.O.T. ratings, so take government information
for what it's worth.  But if used as a GUIDELINE only when considering
tire choice, can be quite helpful, but only if you know what those
numbers and letters actually mean.

While I know those guys were pressed for time on the filming, they
should at least tell you that there's more information concerning tires
than they talked about.  Of course, if you knew nothing about tires
before seeing the program, it was a pretty good informal explanation. 

My 2 cents,
Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:15:28 -0600
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: Old car tires

John:
Thought, 8.00 meant, 8 inches across the median of the tire, old days,
middle was fatter than the tread. Do not believe the# 14 was a factor at
that time, other then rim size. Could be wrong again.
Lou

- ----------
> From: John Pajak <jspajak@yahoo.com>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Old car tires
> Date: Monday, January 25, 1999 8:00 PM
> 
> You wrote:
> What is the exact relation between the letter and number on the old
> bias ply tires as in a F70 or N70?  
> 
> >>I'm looking for this same info. What exactly does the E, F, G mean
> in inches?  70 series, 78 series, I understand that. But without an
> inch equivalent to the letter sizes there is no way to calculate the
> original tire heights!
> 
> >>P.S. I also was led to believe that the old tires like a 8.00-14
> were an 82 aspect ratio. 
> 
> 
> 
> ==
> "2 + 2 = 5 for sufficiently large values of 2"
> 
> John Pajak
> Lexington Park, Maryland
> 
> Check out our cars, trucks and a whole lot more at
> http://members.tripod.com/~JSPajak
> _________________________________________________________
> DO YOU YAHOO!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:18:24 -0600
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: Shade Tree Mechanic tire talk (a bit long)

Mike:
Right, arbitrary, and subjective. Read it how you will, like the Bible or
oil changes.
Lou

- ----------
> From: Mike Rothe. <hurstolds@xtalwind.net>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> 
> However, they lacked something, or I guess, didn't explain everything
> about the number/letter ratings for treadwear, traction and temperature. 
> 
> I took a front end suspension and alignment course several years ago at
> a local college just to see if I could learn anything new, which, to my
> dismay, the only cool thing I got was to do a "lab" on my own car and
> end up with a free alignment outta the deal.  But in the class there was
> a whole section on tires and how to determine possible problems just by
> the treadwear pattern.  This is what I gleened from the course compared
> to what they explained on Shade Tree Mech.:
> 
> Treadwear they said showed the number rating for the life expectancy of
> the tire tread.  An example they showed was rated 220.  They said the
> higher the number the harder the compound, and vice versa.  What they
> FAILED to tell you was that number is arbitrary.  100 is the established
> "standard" for treadwear rating, and using 220 here, you would expect
> the tire to last 2.2 times as long as the standard which no one seems to
> know what that standard correlates to.  It's a good indicator, but it's
> just a guidline.  I use it mainly to guage a tire's compound softness
> over another.
> 
> They also said the traction was for straight line traction.  Somewhat
> true, but again, didn't tell all.  It's a wet road rating during braking
> in a straight line.  "A" being the best, with "C" being the worst.
> 
> The temperature they said was for how well the tire could handle
> temperatures.  Again, sorta.  It's actually a rating of how well a tire
> DISSIPATES heat while rolling over the road.  The "A" thru "C" rating
> applies here as well.
> 
> Of course, all these are D.O.T. ratings, so take government information
> for what it's worth.  But if used as a GUIDELINE only when considering
> tire choice, can be quite helpful, but only if you know what those
> numbers and letters actually mean.
> 
> While I know those guys were pressed for time on the filming, they
> should at least tell you that there's more information concerning tires
> than they talked about.  Of course, if you knew nothing about tires
> before seeing the program, it was a pretty good informal explanation. 
> 
> My 2 cents,
> Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 21:11:07 EST
From: Lou0118@aol.com
Subject: Re: Olds on MCC this coming weekend

In a message dated 1/25/99 8:27:30 PM Eastern Standard Time,
cthomas@stny.lrun.com writes:

<< My Classic Car Its on saturdays at 3:00 and you can also catch it sunday
 Nights at 11:00 thats eastern time Its on TNN after all of those fishing
 shows and its usually right after Motor Trend TV.
  >>

Incase anyone was wondering TNN is The Nashville Network.  My Classic Car is
on at 2:30pm eastern time after Car & Driver TV (Motor Trend TV is moving to
Speedvision in Feb).  Horsepower TV and Shade Tree Mechanic follow MCC.  I
have been taping these shows for the last 4 weeks since the new season
started. 

Lou Principe
69 442 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 21:24:39 -0500
From: "Mike Rothe." <hurstolds@xtalwind.net>
Subject: Re: Old car tires

> >>P.S. I also was led to believe that the old tires like a 8.00-14
> were an 82 aspect ratio.

Typically, (we'll use a G70-14 series tire) the letter code correlated
to the WIDEST part of the tire when properly inflated.  It's about a
useless code, really, cuz it had nothing to do directly with tread
width.  But the further down the alphabet you go, usually meant wider
tread.  Case in point, the old Goodyear Wideboot tires.  They had an
extra row of tread, though used the same letter designations.  Just more
tread.  Today, the Wideboot would be in a completely different size
department.  

Anyway, the "G" would correlate to 8.25" at the WIDEST spot of the tire,
usually across the middle of the sidewalls, but not necessarily. 
Screwy, but it was how they measured them back then. Up and down from
this usually was in .5" increments, such as an "H" was 8.75 and so
forth.  The aspect ratio still correlated to the tread width which in
our example here would be a sidewall 70 percent as tall as the tread is
wide.  Sometimes they did away with the letter completely and it would
just be listed as a "70 series 8.25-14" or something like that.

I hope this confuses, er, clears things up some anyway.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:35:22 -0600
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: Shade Tree Mechanic tire talk (a bit long)

Mike:
Sorry to make a long thread outa this. Used to race 1/4 mile, M&H,
Goodyear's, all slicks, no tread pattern to judge, they were all
different!, batch #s, dates, serial #s, etc, all had an effect on the
performance of the tire. Carried about 7 pairs, tried them and waited to
see which one worked at that particular track. No idea why, not a tire
engineer. If it seemed like it was working, we used it!
Lou   
- ----------
> From: Lou Biggs <lbiggs@intertek.net>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Shade Tree Mechanic tire talk (a bit long)
> Date: Monday, January 25, 1999 8:18 PM

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #1733
*********************************

