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cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #1700


oldsmobile-digest       Monday, January 4 1999       Volume 01 : Number 1700



RE: Speaking of high speed
RE: Dual Exhaust
RE: Disc brake conversion/ Vacuum pump
RE: 455 Engine (fwd)
RE: engine spec
Re: seat cover info. needed/and vendor
Re: 455 Engine (fwd)
Re: Dual Exhaust
Re: Dual Exhaust
Emissions and 350's
Re: Dual Exhaust
Propane Conversion
Re: OL4B    was: Back on list and HEI Q's
Re: Emissions and 350's
Re: delta panels
Re: Dual Exhaust
Re: Propane Conversion
Re: Dual Exhaust
wanted: valve covers
Re: Tempest 4 and Iron Duke trivia question (was: Quad 4 and Hemi
Re: delta panels
Re: Dual Exhaust
Re: Where are the Q4 guys? [oldsmobile-digest V1 #1694]
Re: Christmas Present
Re: Dual Exhaust
re: Dual Exhaust
Re: seat cover info. needed/and vendor
Humor: Definition of a millisecond
Re: Dual Exhaust
Re: Dual Exhaust
Re: Comp Cams - Olds Muscle Car Cams
Re: Dual Exhaust
Re: Dual Exhaust
Re: Dual Exhaust
Re: ID-ing a 442
Re: Dual Exhaust
Re: Propane Conversion
72 cutlass tire size
Re: 72 cutlass tire size
Fw: 16 inch torque thrust D
Re: Dual Exhaust
Re: Speed/Pennsylvania
70 Rallye 350???
Re: 70 Rallye 350???
RE: Dual Exhaust
Re: 70 Rallye 350???
Re: 70 Rallye 350???
Re: Dual Exhaust
Re: 70 Rallye 350???
Re: Propane Conversion
Re: Sigh! Joke!!
Re: Dual Exhaust
Re: 70 Rallye 350???
Re: 72 cutlass tire size
Poster cars?
Re: Automatic trans. Converter instal
The coolant thing
Re: Poster cars?
Paint Freezing?
Re: The coolant thing
Re: Dual Exhaust
Re: ID-ing a 442

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 11:34:43 -0800
From: "Jim Byrne" <jbyrne@cncx.com>
Subject: RE: Speaking of high speed

Please remove my e-mail address from your list.

Thank you.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
> [mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of Cliff Simpson
> Sent: Monday, January 04, 1999 11:15 AM
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Speaking of high speed
> 
> 
> 
> Correct Matt, and relative to the tire the car is spinning around 
> it.  Some
> parts of the car are going 60 MPH relative to a point on the 
> outer edge of the
> wheel while other parts of the car are going -60 MPH.
> 
> No wonder my car has vibrations and squeaks:))
> 
> 
> > Actually mathamatically this is the same as the senario that I 
> proposed.  If
> > you use all of the dimentions, I believe you will find that the 
> sides are also
> > at 60mph.  The front is going down and the back is going up.  
> Although, as I
> > think about it some more (ouch that hurts) I'll bet that you 
> could set the
> > problem up mathematically to get the answers you got.  So, your 
> answer isn't
> > wrong. You just weren't using all of the 4 dimentions to get 
> your answer.
> > 
> > That's enough, its time for Matt to go to bed.
> > 
> > Matt Pokorny
> > cs81w350@aol.com
> > Ames, Iowa
> 
> -- 
> 
> Cliff Simpson
> csimpson@ucalgary.ca
> '69 442/400/th400/3.31p (Kermit) (soon to be a 455 :)
> http://www.ucalgary.ca/~csimpson
> 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 11:34:16 -0800
From: "Jim Byrne" <jbyrne@cncx.com>
Subject: RE: Dual Exhaust

Please remove my e-mail address from your list.

Thank you.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
> [mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of
> Padavano.Joe@orbital.com
> Sent: Monday, January 04, 1999 11:24 AM
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Dual Exhaust
>
>
> I've been watching this thread, and not owning a cat-equipped car, I
> haven't responded until now.
>
> Keep in mind that the engine doesn't care if it has a single, dual, or
> eight exhaust pipes; all it cares about is exhaust flow and restriction.
> As an example, 2 1/2" dual exhausts, the standard high performance big
> block exhaust setup, have the same flow area as a single 3 1/2" pipe.  The
> cats in most factory performace applications have sufficient flow
> capability that dual cats are not required.  The result, as others have
> pointed out, is that the car costs less to build (a prime requirement for
> the manufacturer) and the cat lights off faster (required for emissions
> compliance).
>
> One way to stay legal and still improve performance is to find a
> single cat
> with sufficient inlet area to match that of the proposed duals.  I suspect
> that the cats on late model F-body cars would suffice.  Now, when
> you go to
> the inspection station, you've still got a single cat, but increased flow
> area.  One pipe doesn't look as cool as two, but performance will be the
> same, and you have the added advantage of not needing to
> fabricate a double
> hump crossmember.
>
> Note that I'm sure there are still issues with the fact that
> you've altered
> the emissions control "system" and one could claim that a newer, large
> volume cat wasn't designed to operate in the system of a different car
> (read:  wasn't federally certified in that system), and that would be
> technically true.  Also, you must realize that the entire
> emissions control
> package _is_ tuned to work as a system, such as air pumps, exact
> A/F ratio,
> etc. tweaked to ensure that the cat lights off and works correctly under
> all operating conditions (well, at least under all _tested_ operating
> conditions) for 100,000 miles (on newer cars).  The reality is, however,
> that so long as the inspector sees a functioning cat and a single exhaust
> where one grew originally, there likely won't be a problem.  Normal
> disclaimers apply, however...
>
> Joe Padavano
> padavano.joe@orbital.com
>
> 66 442
> 68 W-30
> 69 H/O
> 69 442
> 70 W-30
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 11:34:56 -0800
From: "Jim Byrne" <jbyrne@cncx.com>
Subject: RE: Disc brake conversion/ Vacuum pump

Please remove my e-mail address from your list.

Thank you.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
> [mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of David Brown
> Sent: Monday, January 04, 1999 11:18 AM
> To: olds mail list
> Subject: Re: Disc brake conversion/ Vacuum pump
> 
> 
> Regarding vacuum reservoirs, if you want a factory tank, find a
> Comfortron equipped car. They have huge tanks. I found metal tanks in a
> '67 98. I don't know if they ever used plastic tanks.
> --
> David Brown          Mailto:dbrown@mh1.mcis.uchicago.edu
>           Oldsmobile Mailing List FAQ 4.1 at:
> http://www.442.com   OR   http://www.en.com/users/thall
> Conserve bandwidth, get the zip file for local viewing:
>            ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds
> 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 11:35:21 -0800
From: "Jim Byrne" <jbyrne@cncx.com>
Subject: RE: 455 Engine (fwd)

Please remove my e-mail address from your list.

Thank you.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
> [mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]On Behalf Of Greg Beaulieu
> Sent: Monday, January 04, 1999 11:10 AM
> To: Oldsmobile
> Subject: 455 Engine (fwd)
> 
> 
> I dunno the answer to this and the FAQ was some help but not definitive..
> anyone know? Respond to orion@goldengate.net if you can assist.
> 
> Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Ronald Panasuk <orion@goldengate.net>
> Subject: 455 Engine
> 
> I have a 67 442.  I am going to rebuild the engine in it.  I installed an
> engine in it when I was in high school, it is supposedly a 455.  I pulled
> a F5 off of the rear of the engine and a 3 and a 338 by the distrobuter
> hole.  Any info on this?  I am looking for year and size and if this is
> what I want.  Thanks. 
>                         Ron.
> 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 11:39:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Stefan Gadecki <sgadecki@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: engine spec

<snip>
> >   My 1970 Cutlass 'S' came stock with a 2bbl, so it's possible that
> > your supreme did too.  Check the numbers on the intake manifold and
> > the engine block and see if they match.  If they do, it's correct. 
> > Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
<snip>
> I'm confused.  What numbers would you check on the intake manifold? 
Are you
> talking the date codes to see if they correspond.  Just curious, or
maybe I
> just read the post wrong.
> 
> Chris Smetana
> Terre Haute, IN
> http://www.abcs.com/chris
<snip> 
     Actually, now that you mention it, I'm not really sure myself. 
I'll have to check when I get home today.  All I know is that in an
original car, all of the numbers in the drive train are supposed to
match ( I think it's the part number or serial number or something)

Good Luck,
     Stefan
     1970 Cutlass 'S' Holiday Coupe
     sgadecki@yahoo.com
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 14:35:54 -0500
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: seat cover info. needed/and vendor

This post jogged my memory.  With all the Brothers bashing that has gone on
here, I felt that once again I need to commend Steve Kinney for his
service.  Earlier this year, I contacted Steve personnaly about an
upholstery kit that I had purchased from Brothers well over 10 years ago
for my 70 W-30.  In the course of installing the seatback upholstery on one
of the buckets, I overstretched the new cover and ripped it at one of the
seams.  At that point I put the kit back in the box and let it sit through
the move from CA to VA, a new job, a divorce, remarriage, second divorce,
etc.  As I recently started to work on my 70 again, I asked Steve if it was
possible to purchase just the seatback upholstery for one bucket, since the
rest of the set was fine.  I made it clear to Steve that I had purchased
the set years ago and that the damage was entirely my fault, so I expected
to pay the fair price for it.

Steve asked me to send the damaged cover back to him, and that he would see
if he could repair it or replace it.  While it took many months (Steve's
upholstery vendor apparently works very slowly and is severely backlogged),
Steve ended up sending me a new cover for free!  I find this to be service
well above and beyond the call of duty.

Steve also noted that there are only two repro upholstery vendors in the
country, so no matter who you buy from , the upholstery will either be made
by PUI or the other vendor (which is the one Brothers uses, and
unfortunately I didn't get the name).  You can see why there's a backlog on
upholstery kits, as you can imagine that these vendors sell (and thus make)
many more Chevy patterns than other makes.  The bottom line is that whoever
you get the kit from, allow a lot of time to receive it (unless you're
lucky and it happens to be in stock).

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 14:47:44 -0500
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: 455 Engine (fwd)

...I installed an engine in it when I was in high school, it is supposedly
a 455.  I pulled a F5 off of the rear of the engine and a 3 and a 338 by
the distrobuter
hole.  Any info on this?  I am looking for year and size and if this is
what I want.  Thanks.
                        Ron.
_______

Ron,

I assume the "F5" came from the flywheel face of the engine.  That sounds
like a later model 455 block, say 1973-75.  To absolutely ID the block as a
455, look at the shelf just behind the water pump, where the oil fill tube
is located.  You should find the cast numbers "396021" on the passenger
side and a larger letter "F" or "Fa" on the driver's side.  To ID the year,
find the VIN derivative number, which is located on a pad just below the
cylinder head on the front left side of the engine (below the number one
spark plug location).  This number should take the form of "35Mxxxxxx"
where:

3 = Oldsmobile division
5 = year of manufacture (3 = 1973, 4 = 74, 5 = 75, 6 = 76)
M = location of manufacture (M = Lansing, X = Kansas City, etc)
xxxxxx = last six digits of VIN of car that motor originally came in

Are the heads on the motor those that it originally came with?  If so, you
will likely find the raised letter J on the heads by the number one and
number eight spark plugs.  These are the 1973-76 smog heads.

Let me know if I can be of any further help.

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 14:58:52 EST
From: GT5726@aol.com
Subject: Re: Dual Exhaust

In a message dated 1/4/99 8:51:04 AM Central Standard Time, SemantanaC@tce.com
writes:

<< 
 > There are exceptions on the high performance end of the
 > market
 > vette,camaro,firebird,etc,
 > 
 Are the f-bodies true dual exhaust?  I thought they were a Y pipe that then
 went into two mufflers.
  >>


   I cannot speak for the "f-body" cars, but, my 93 Ford Lightning has true
duals. It has headers, h-pipe, 4 convertors , and tweo mufflers...both sides
are independant of each other, except for the equalizer(h-pipe). I had it
replaced under warrantee and the system came prewelded from the headers to the
tailpipes. Cost:$2900

  Collyn Eastham
65 442
65 Cutlass

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 15:07:22 EST
From: GT5726@aol.com
Subject: Re: Dual Exhaust

In a message dated 1/4/99 10:55:29 AM Central Standard Time,
w.d.arnold@lmco.com writes:

<< If you only have to 'pass' one day a year then, only pass one day a year.
 Forget those EPA guys. It's your car. >>
  Ha ha...and help control the mesquito population at the same
time...hahahahaha

Collyn Eastham
65 442
65 Cutlass

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 14:37:20 -0600
From: "Joe Centanni" <jacentan@crown.icongrp.com>
Subject: Emissions and 350's

My 87 442 all stock w/ emissions crap in place minus the cat converter just
barely flunked the test(IM 240 rolller dyno style) I believe hydrocarbons
was slightly high like one part more than "I was allowed.....I ran out of
time or I would've been able to pass w/ out a cat at all!
My new theory is this since the hydrocarbons are unburned fuel and I'll
admit my carb was the worse for wear at the time of the test will my MSD 6
box and Taylor wires burn off the fuel that wasn't ignited by the formerly
stock ignition and allow me to pass?  I"m gonna go for it come March and
see if I can pass running all emissions except for my cat(fingers
crossed)...Anyone else have a close call like this and manage to pass?..Let
me know!.............Looking for a high 13 low low 14 combo for an
emissions legal 350 for my car I know aomeone around here has done it
because its a dead on bolt in?!.......In the meantime I get to do my front
seal damn things leaking like a sieve, probably wouldn;'t have worn out if
I didn't beat the Sh$%t out of it , but wheres the fun in that?
				Later
				Jeremy 87 442

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 15:35:05 EST
From: Mikeytvb@aol.com
Subject: Re: Dual Exhaust

here's a trick.  goto the junk yard and find any cat with the same size pipe
as your car.  cut the old cat out of your car and weld a flange on each end.
then weld flanges on the pipes.   take the j'yard cat and gut it out.  cut it
to the same size as the other one.  weld flanges on each end.  when it's time
to go through emissions put the real cat in.  the rest of the time drive with
the hollow cat.  if you want to put duel cats on it you can.  you can't take
it to a muffler shop to due so.  you have to find a welder or shade-tree
mechanic.  where i live all they do is check to see that all pipes that leave
the engine are going through some sorta cat.

mikeytvb@aol.com
70 442 hc

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 14:43:31 -0600 
From: Martin Thomas-WLTM07 <Thomas_Martin-WLTM07@css.mot.com>
Subject: Propane Conversion

Is it costly or difficult to convert over to propane?  

Is there any emissions legalities?

What is performance like?

How hard is it to get fuel?

Is it safe in a accident?

Does the ECM or Cat Converter need to be installed still?

I pass a propane company on my way to work (you saw it on TV last summer on
fire, in Walworth, WI, it is better now....) but will they sell to
automobiles?  I don't want to tote 20 lbs cyl of propane to "fill" my tank!

I have heard spark plugs last virtually forever and cold start issues are
non existant.  Is this true?

Thanks!

Thomas Martin
80 Turbo Trans AM
85 Cutlass Supreme Rocket 350 CCC
91 Bonneville LE 3800

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 15:04:50 -0600 (CST)
From: hitson@i1.net (roger hitson)
Subject: Re: OL4B    was: Back on list and HEI Q's

Thomas Smith asked:


>Now for my Olds question...which is actually a repeat.  I'm considering
>the HEI swap.  I have an Edelbrock OL4B intake.  Awhile back there was
>some discussion about clearance on these intakes.  Apparently, HEI will
>not clear the big block intake, O4B, but may clear the small block
>intake, OL4B.  I'd appreciate some clarification on this.  Will the HEI
>clear my OL4B and, if so, how close does it come?
>
I don't know the answer through direct experience.  Two pretty knowledgeable 
guys, Mark Prince & Chris Witt, both told me the OL4B would not work with HEI.

roger hitson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 15:47:16 EST
From: Mikeytvb@aol.com
Subject: Re: Emissions and 350's

with older carbs, you just have to lean them out for the test and you should
pass every time.  not only does this help the hydrocarbon problem it raises
the operating temp of the vehicle which makes it more efficient.

mikeytvb@aol.com
1970 442 hc

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 15:47:41 -0500
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: delta panels

>direction of some repro body panels or nos panels for a lumbering delta. i
>know its slim, but i gotta ask! thanks again.

Um, year? Body style? Which panels?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 15:57:05 -0500
From: Gene Gilpin <ggilpin@wrallp.com>
Subject: Re: Dual Exhaust

I did this trick to a beater '88 "LeMans" (you know, the stupid little one)
I had. (looking to squeeze every last drop of HP out of it.) Anyway, my
little added .02 to this is if you take the guts out of the cat, split it
in half, weld in a piece of pipe same size as rest of exhaust and weld the
covers back on so you end up with what looks like a converter but is
straight through pipe if you look into it. If you just hollow out the guts
then the exhaust dumps into the big empty space and it sounds like someone
farting through a hollow coffee can. Trust me, It'll get on your nerves and
and exhaust won't flow smoothly. 

Ed 
The Omega man
74 Omega 455










At 03:35 PM 1/4/99 EST, you wrote:
>here's a trick.  goto the junk yard and find any cat with the same size pipe
>as your car.  cut the old cat out of your car and weld a flange on each end.
>then weld flanges on the pipes.   take the j'yard cat and gut it out.  cut it
>to the same size as the other one.  weld flanges on each end.  when it's time
>to go through emissions put the real cat in.  the rest of the time drive with
>the hollow cat.  if you want to put duel cats on it you can.  you can't take
>it to a muffler shop to due so.  you have to find a welder or shade-tree
>mechanic.  where i live all they do is check to see that all pipes that leave
>the engine are going through some sorta cat.
>
>mikeytvb@aol.com
>70 442 hc
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 15:57:28 -0500
From: David L Wyatt <WYATT_DAVID_L@LILLY.COM>
Subject: Re: Propane Conversion

>I have heard spark plugs last virtually forever and cold start issues are
>non existant.  Is this true?
Yes the plugs run cleaner, but the cold start issues turn into one big issue,
it won't start.  When propane reaches 20 or 30 degrees (not sure of exact
temp) below zero it turns to a liquid.  When it turns to liquid in the tank
you loose pressure and you have no fuel.  We have a dual fuel fork truck here
at work due to cold weather.  We use the gasoline option when it is cold,
below 20 f.

Dave Wyatt
Snow Covered 70  4-4-2

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 15:12:02 -0600 
From: Martin Thomas-WLTM07 <Thomas_Martin-WLTM07@css.mot.com>
Subject: Re: Dual Exhaust

Interesting enough, in Colorado Springs, I was told by an inspector that
according to Colorado State Law, as long as there is A CC in place and
hooked up, 2 is fine, as long as there is one in the factory location.  (I
know better, though).  So if that is interpreted properly.  You have one in
place, and the other pipe without one, and true duals.....  

Ok, pushing it a bit, right?

I guess the $10K fine per offense should deter some of that.....

Thomas Martin
80 Turbo Trans AM
85 Cutlass Supreme Rocket 350 CCC
91 Bonneville LE 3800

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 16:14:19 -0500
From: "Edward Binnix" <comid@jellico.com>
Subject: wanted: valve covers

Someone on the list had some M/T or Holley Valve covers for sale. Will that
person contact me at comid@jellico.com.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 15:16:15 -0600 
From: Martin Thomas-WLTM07 <Thomas_Martin-WLTM07@css.mot.com>
Subject: Re: Tempest 4 and Iron Duke trivia question (was: Quad 4 and Hemi

The Iron Duke in reality is not a Pontiac engine, it is loosely sharing some
parts from the 301, but is more straight 6 Ch#vy.  Even the part numbers of
the timing gears are Ch$vy.  Take a 230 and lop off 2 cyl, you have a Iron
Duke!  I guess Pontiac got stuck with bringing that one to life.  But then
again, wanna race a Fiero with a 330 hp 3.3L SD4?

I wouldn't bet on that BB Ch%vy for that race!!

The SD4 almost made full production in the warped idea to bring the GTO back
under the FWD Grand AM platform.  Glad they didn't disgrace that name.
Would have been a fun car, 270 hp 2.7L.  

Thomas Martin
80 Turbo Trans AM
85 Cutlass Supreme Rocket 350 CCC
91 Bonneville LE 3800

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 16:16:43 -0500
From: "Erik Gertsen" <ainode@frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: delta panels

1973, 4 door, rear qtrs, (mainly). anything for that year that size.
Erik Gertsen
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, January 04, 1999 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: delta panels


>>direction of some repro body panels or nos panels for a lumbering delta. i
>>know its slim, but i gotta ask! thanks again.
>
>Um, year? Body style? Which panels?
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 15:21:10 -0600 
From: Martin Thomas-WLTM07 <Thomas_Martin-WLTM07@css.mot.com>
Subject: Re: Dual Exhaust

Not all though, only specifically optioned cars.  Like the Formula with the
WS6 option, or SS Z28, with the Z rated tires (easily ID with the 150 mph
speedo for 93 up).  This is specific option, not all V8 cars get it.  And it
is illegal to convert a car to it, because it did not come that way, but
then again, who will check that far......

Tom

Thomas Martin
80 Turbo Trans AM
85 Cutlass Supreme Rocket 350 CCC
91 Bonneville LE 3800

 

>In a message dated 1/4/1999 9:51:09 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>SemantanaC@tce.com writes:
>
><< Are the f-bodies true dual exhaust?  I thought they were a Y pipe that=
> then
> went into two mufflers.
>  >>
>some of the newer ones are true duals......  after 90 I think
>
>Bill K

- ------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: 4 Jan 99 16:21:35 EST
From: Mike Coccagna <mcoccagna@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: Where are the Q4 guys? [oldsmobile-digest V1 #1694]

Ray (and others), 

A few of us still lurk in digest mode...  if anyone is looking for us, the
easiest way to find the list is on Cecil Smalley's W41 Quad442 page at
http://home.att.net/~notdadsw41/QuadFourm.htm

We'll be moving to another list server soon, or I'd point you there...

Ray, if you want to pass the info to the Quad4 folks, drop me a line (offline)
and I'll pass it on.

Mike
'91 Quad442
'93 SCX
mcoccagna@netscape.net


Ray Costanzo <costanzo@netcarrier.com> wrote regarding the Q4 guys on Jan 1,
1999:

    Are there still Q4 guys here? Or do they all have their own list too? 
    I drive past this Q4 every day on the way to work and I think someone
should 
    buy it. The guy who owns it knows what he has, which may mean it was 
    treated with the respect and care it deserves. But it's been there for a 
    while meaning it may be cheap. More info? Ask Ray. Happy New Year! 

    Ray Costanzo 
    87 409 Cutlass 
    costanzo@netcarrier.com 
    http://www.user1.netcarrier.com/~costanzo 

____________________________________________________________________
More than just email--Get your FREE Netscape WebMail account today at 
http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 15:29:49 -0600 
From: Doug Newman <newmand@WCBI.com>
Subject: Re: Christmas Present

	Brian Ammons wrote:

	<snip>

	Just returned from my Worldwide Texas Tour...me and a buddy took
the Delta from Houston to Dallas, where she successfully transported us
to Deep Ellum on New Year's Eve, then to the Cotten Bowl at 10 o'clock
in the F#*KING
	MORNING on New Year's Day,   <snip>

	Ouch!  Brian, please don't say the words "Cotton Bowl" in
public.  At least I didn't waste my time making the trip.  It was bad
enough having to suffer through it watching it on the tube...

	Later,

Doug Newman         OCA # 30311
Columbus, MS         1987 442

http://www.442.com/newman.html               1987 442
http://www.442.com/newmantape.html        Centennial Tape Info.
	 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 15:31:48 -0600 
From: Martin Thomas-WLTM07 <Thomas_Martin-WLTM07@css.mot.com>
Subject: Re: Dual Exhaust

Does anyone know how to calculate the flow of exhaust though a pipe?
variables like CFM, temp, etc?

Can you calculate the point at what a pipe is a restriction?  my dual 2 in
on my 455 T/A are a real problem above 4000 rpm.  4500 with the 400 I now
how, and no real problem to my 301 turbo up to 5000 rpm.  

My 85 Cutlass with a 350 and 2.5in duals after that test pipe (extensive
testing....) are great up to 90 in second gear, (????RPM, 2.14's THM200C)
and still breathing fine....

What is the best pipe for the best engine?  dual 2.5's?  Single 3?  Dual
3's?  single 4?  Imagine the weight savings of single 3.5 in over duals!
Is this a secret?

Thomas Martin
80 Turbo Trans AM
85 Cutlass Supreme Rocket 350 CCC
91 Bonneville LE 3800
  

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 15:33:29 -0600 
From: Martin Thomas-WLTM07 <Thomas_Martin-WLTM07@css.mot.com>
Subject: re: Dual Exhaust

Do you have California emissions?

The Backpressure Transducer EGR will create problems if the EGR backpressure
is changed.  

Yes, they car correct about the cat, if it was designed for one, you must
keep one.  Based on Federal Law.  But each state is allowed to interpret it
their way.  

Reason.  The system is designed to have x cfm flow through the cat to
promote fast warm-up of the converter and when it is hot, then it is
efficient.  Remember, you are supposed to have the cat up to operating temp
within 3 min of startup.  When you remove 50% of the airflow through it,
then you have to potential to allow it to cool off and then making the cat
less efficient.  Sure, it may pass the smog test at idle or 2500 rpm, but in
reality it is going to cool off when driving down the road at 60 mph, and
then may drop below what it operating temp is and start passing more CO and
HC into the air than normal.  

Remember, a good high flow cat will produce near the same HP (probably lose
5-10 hp) as with straight through pipe, so there is not that big of a deal
going to true duals vs good quality mandrel bent pipes and high flow cat
(with dual after cat).  

There is a guy with a 68 Firebird, 455 Poncho, dual cats, lots of overlap
cam (custom grind), air check valves in the header collectors (allows air
in, but no exhaust out), passes 100% emissions tests (except visual) for CA,
based on mid 90's emissions, including CO, HC and NOx and runs low 11's down
the 1/4 mile.  He proved proper design it can be done.  He is the SR
emissions guru in CA, and by the book, his car fails, it didn't come that
way in 68!!  

If you run 11's, or faster the cat may prove an obstacle!  Again, proper
design.  
  
I admit, I don't run a cat now, but I will, someday.  Look at the new cats,
they are porting the air through the grid, but the surface area is so large,
it really is not posing much if any restriction.  

I believe emissions are ok, as long as they are installed properly and are
designed properly.   Many cars out of Detroit had poor emissions and they
hurt more power than they needed to.  Just ask any F#rd owner who has
checked the cam timing on a 70's F#rd!  They were 6-8 degrees retarded out
of the factory!!  Poor emissions.

Oh well.....

Thomas Martin
80 Turbo Trans AM
85 Cutlass Supreme Rocket 350 CCC
91 Bonneville LE 3800

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 16:39:00 -0500
From: "Mike Rothe." <hurstolds@xtalwind.net>
Subject: Re: seat cover info. needed/and vendor

<SNIP>
> for 71 which is a dark blue , but for supreme models, a diff. pattern.
> they do list the m16* , or dark blue for the 72 442 holiday coupe. anyone 
know
> what the difference is in the patterns. 

Well, lessee, from MY understanding, since I don't have an original
interior material book for either year, the 71 used a fake "pigskin"
material, while the 72 used a different grain, I believe "madrid" grain
is what it is called.  However, the style/shape is exactly the same. 
They look very close at first glance.  However, under careful
inspection, the difference is evident.  The Cutlass S/442 were the same
style, while the Supreme differed.

Just some unfounded observations.
Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 13:52:56 -0800 
From: Chris Fair <cfair@FairIsaac.com>
Subject: Humor: Definition of a millisecond

What's the definition of a millisecond?

The time between when the light goes green and the guy behind you honks  (at
your Olds...)


cf

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 17:10:00 EST
From: Onebil2mny@aol.com
Subject: Re: Dual Exhaust

In a message dated 1/4/1999 12:23:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, Sx455@aol.com
writes:

<< ive been under f-bodies as new as 97 and they still use the y-pipe with
single >>


some F-Bodies, after 1990 came with dual cats.  Both cats are still under the
pass side.

Bill K

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 14:11:24 PST
From: "scott slater" <slater442w30@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Dual Exhaust

Go to a different shop that doesn't care about catalytic bullcrap.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 16:16:23 -0600
From: "Shane" <sgibreal@nctc.net>
Subject: Re: Comp Cams - Olds Muscle Car Cams

I am running a Mondello "rocker kit" and his JM-25-28 cam and mine is also
noisy. No matter whether they're adjusted tight or loose. I could swear it's
rocker noise not lifter noise, but I could be wrong. But with 2.5'' Flowmasters
you can't hear them unless you open the hood. I can live with it.

Oh yeah, they're Comp Cams Magnum rockers, and I suspect Engle lifters.

Shane Gibreal

Fernando.Proietto@ec.gc.ca wrote:

> I'm somewhat glad to start hearing that people are experiencing noisy
> lifters with the Mondello setups. For a while I'm thought I was the only
> one. I have a JM-16-18 cam for my small block and I'm using Mondello's
> lifters (as a package) including Mondello's springs.
>         Question: who else is using Mondellos' lifters and getting a noisy
> valve train...? A quick survey might help us confirm this hypothesis...
>
> > ----------
> > From:         Arnold, W D[SMTP:w.d.arnold@lmco.com]
> >
> > You may be onto something here... I used the GM std lifters with my
> > mondello
> > cam with no noise.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 17:15:33 EST
From: Onebil2mny@aol.com
Subject: Re: Dual Exhaust

In a message dated 1/4/1999 3:40:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, Mikeytvb@aol.com
writes:

<< goto the junk yard and find any cat with the same size pipe >>


One problem......  It's illegal to buy or sell used cats.

Sorry,
Bill K

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 17:18:23 EST
From: Onebil2mny@aol.com
Subject: Re: Dual Exhaust

In a message dated 1/4/1999 4:24:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, Thomas_Martin-
WLTM07@css.mot.com writes:

<<  And it
 is illegal to convert a car to it, because it did not come that way, but
 then again, who will check that far...... >>


not exactly.....   also, if you buy the ZZ4 package for LG4 equipped F-Bodies
from GM, it comes with dual cats.  All properly certified

Bill K

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 17:22:48 EST
From: Onebil2mny@aol.com
Subject: Re: Dual Exhaust

In a message dated 1/4/1999 5:13:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
slater442w30@hotmail.com writes:

<< Go to a different shop that doesn't care about catalytic bullcrap. >>


but what if they care about that huge fine, and the jail time??

Bill K

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 16:35:11 -0600
From: Kerry Kroger <kerryk@cwix.com>
Subject: Re: ID-ing a 442

could be 67 or 68 I think
- -----Original Message-----
From: CUTLASS442@aol.com <CUTLASS442@aol.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Sunday, January 03, 1999 9:36 PM
Subject: Re: ID-ing a 442


>In a message dated 1/3/99 7:29:28 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>david.cullen@snet.net writes:
>
><<
> Four round headlights, each pair surrounded by a rectangular box of chrome
> trim. There's a rectangular driving light (parking light?) in between each
> pair of headlights. >>
>
>
>67-71???
>
>richard
>cutlass442@aol.com
>1967 "Oldsmobuick" Cutlass

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 16:39:47 -0600
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: Dual Exhaust

Scott, something like a $2500.00 fine in Illinois,  I even tried some
dirtball shops, "nuthin doin" they said.
Lou
PS Was going to try to cheat, no one with 1/2 a brain will touch it, tried
to get pipes bent and then put them on myself and couldn't any reasonable
shop to make them. I even told them the car wasn't driven on the highway,
thanks but no thanks.

- ----------
> From: scott slater <slater442w30@hotmail.com>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Dual Exhaust
> Date: Monday, January 04, 1999 4:11 PM

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 16:37:22 -0600
From: Kerry Kroger <kerryk@cwix.com>
Subject: Re: Propane Conversion

also liquid propane will freeze just try it out with one of the little
propane torches
- -----Original Message-----
From: David L Wyatt <WYATT_DAVID_L@LILLY.COM>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Monday, January 04, 1999 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: Propane Conversion


>>I have heard spark plugs last virtually forever and cold start issues are
>>non existant.  Is this true?
>Yes the plugs run cleaner, but the cold start issues turn into one big
issue,
>it won't start.  When propane reaches 20 or 30 degrees (not sure of exact
>temp) below zero it turns to a liquid.  When it turns to liquid in the tank
>you loose pressure and you have no fuel.  We have a dual fuel fork truck
here
>at work due to cold weather.  We use the gasoline option when it is cold,
>below 20 f.
>
>Dave Wyatt
>Snow Covered 70  4-4-2
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 17:50:10 EST
From: EDZX6@aol.com
Subject: 72 cutlass tire size

  Just wondering what's the biggest rear size tires you can safely fit in a 72
Cutlass.
Currently have 245 60 on stock SSII 14" rims but cosidering upgrading to 15"
rims with as much meat as possible.

(Sorry if the question has been asked before but I'm sort of new to the list,
Thanks)

Eddie     72 Cutlass/conv/4spd

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 17:56:56 -0500
From: Jim or Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Subject: Re: 72 cutlass tire size

Eddie

        Depending on the offset of the new wheels you can get a 275/60-15 or a
295/50-15 in there. The 275 fills them up without worries of scrapping them if
you keep the wheel offset closer to the frame side not the street side. The
295's would take a close look at the wheel offset to fit them correctly.

Jim Chermack

At 05:50 PM 1/4/99 , you wrote:
>  Just wondering what's the biggest rear size tires you can safely fit in a 72
>Cutlass.
>Currently have 245 60 on stock SSII 14" rims but cosidering upgrading to 15"
>rims with as much meat as possible.
>
>(Sorry if the question has been asked before but I'm sort of new to the list,
>Thanks)
>
>Eddie     72 Cutlass/conv/4spd

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 18:04:13 -0500
From: "Bill Reilly" <wjreilly@erols.com>
Subject: Fw: 16 inch torque thrust D

FYI

I wrote an e-mail to American Racing inquiring about the 16" Torque thrust
D.  This is what I got back.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Alinder Keith <CALIFORNIA!CORPORATE!KEITHA@amracing.attmail.com>
To: Bill Reilly <wjreilly@erols.com>
Date: Monday, January 04, 1999 4:59 PM
Subject: RE: 16 inch torque thrust D


>
>This is not true.
>The only Torq-Thrust we make in 16 inch is the Torq-Thrust II.
> ----------
>From: Bill Reilly
>To: internet!americanracing.com!info; keitha
>Subject: 16 inch torque thrust D
>Date: Thursday, December 31, 1998 5:13PM
>
>Dear ARE,
>
>My local aftermarket shop informed me that you will be coming out with
>Torque Thrust D's in 16" sizes.  Unfortunately he is not sure when they
will
>be available.  Could you please let me know when these will become
>available, and the approximate retail cost on them as well.
>
>Thank you very much, and have a Happy New Year.
>
>Bill Reilly
>mailto: wjreilly@erols.com
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 16:50:56 -0600
From: Kerry Kroger <kerryk@cwix.com>
Subject: Re: Dual Exhaust

their reasoning is that if the car came with one it must retain at least one
no less than that they really dont care if you put on another one there has
never been a stipulation on that trust me used to do the inspections on such
things the fact that the gasses dont remain in the same volume thus the same
contact with the filler is not yet an issue
when it becomes an issue there will be more than a snif test involved in the
testing and inspection procedures until then they will have to make do with
sniffing one side by the way those silly mustang guys have been doing that
for years two cats two tails and two resonators
no mufflers and lacking a sound standard the vehicle passed the noise
pollution test ie it made some.....soo they decided that there had to be
mufflers on the car go figger.....KK p.s. being an engineer sucks.....too
much to think about but it pays the bills and leaves a few minutes on sunday
mornings to do something else................sigh
- -----Original Message-----
From: Lou Biggs <lbiggs@intertek.net>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Monday, January 04, 1999 9:35 AM
Subject: Re: Dual Exhaust


>Chris,
>My 76 TA 400, Ram Air, had one converter, two pipes, two mufflers and two
>resonators behind all that, OEM.
>Lou
>----------
>> From: Semantana Chris (ONEX) <SemantanaC@tce.com>
>> To: 'oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca'
>> Subject: RE: Dual Exhaust
>> Are the f-bodies true dual exhaust?  I thought they were a Y pipe that
>then
>> went into two mufflers.
>>
>> Chris Smetana
>> Terre Haute, IN
>> http://www.abcs.com/chris
>>
>> 1969 W-31
>> 1969 4-4-2 parts car
>> plus others

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 16:54:54 -0600
From: Kerry Kroger <kerryk@cwix.com>
Subject: Re: Speed/Pennsylvania

what kind of car my 69 W-31 could do it W-350 3.91 gears 9 inch x 28 inch
slicks and an automatic(column shift bench seat)
- -----Original Message-----
From: Master Costanzo <costanzo@netcarrier.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Monday, January 04, 1999 1:30 AM
Subject: RE: Speed/Pennsylvania


>
>
>-----Original Message-----
> There has to be a way to make an Olds 350 get my car into the 13's
>emissions legal after all everyone here rips on the bowtie brigade and they
>can but a HO 350 thats smog leagl in up to 87 Camarslows and do it lets
>make this the challenge to see if it can be done. Can it?
>
>Joe man,
>The best way to get through the emissions crap, is to find a way to make
>your car exempt.  How this can be done varies by state of course, but there
>probably is a way there.
>
>I've heard of a new thing in PA where you can register your car as modified
>or something if you have swapped in a different engine.  And this can be
>done for any year car.  Don't know about this though.  Keystoners?
>
>Ray Costanzo
>87 409 Cutlass
>costanzo@netcarrier.com
>http://www.user1.netcarrier.com/~costanzo
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 17:14:40 -0600
From: "mbloomer" <mbloomer@gateway.net>
Subject: 70 Rallye 350???

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01BE3805.B6EE1200
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On my way home from work today, I saw something that
confused me.  It appeared to be a 70 Rallye 350.  All I=20
know of the "Rallye" cars is that they have painted=20
bumpers (and apparently 350's too).  I only saw the=20
car from the rear and it had a 70 rear bumper.  Both=20
bumpers were painted body color (bright yellow) and=20
it had "Rallye 350" on the rear quarters at the belt line
just in front of the bumper.  Is this similar to the W31's?
What really struck me was that this car had vent windows
in the doors.  I was under the impression that all Cutlass
variants dropped the vent window after 68.  What's the
deal?  What would this car be worth (was at a used car
lot) and how would you identify it as authentic?

TIA
Mike B
mbloomer@gateway.net
ICQ# 19113713
72 Cutlass S (RIP)
68 Cutlass Supreme


- ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01BE3805.B6EE1200
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<HTML>
<HEAD>

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http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>On my way home from work today, I saw =
something=20
that</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>confused me.&nbsp; It appeared to be a 70 =
Rallye=20
350.&nbsp; All I </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>know of the &quot;Rallye&quot; cars is that =
they have=20
painted </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>bumpers (and apparently 350's too).&nbsp; I =
only saw=20
the </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>car from the rear and it had a 70 rear =
bumper.&nbsp;=20
Both </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>bumpers were painted body color (bright =
yellow) and=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>it had &quot;Rallye 350&quot; on the rear =
quarters at=20
the belt line</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>just in front of the bumper.&nbsp; Is this =
similar to=20
the W31's?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>What really struck me was that this car had =
vent=20
windows</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>in the doors.&nbsp; I was under the =
impression that all=20
Cutlass</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>variants dropped the vent window after =
68.&nbsp; What's=20
the</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>deal?&nbsp; What would this car be worth (was =
at a used=20
car</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>lot) and how would you identify it as=20
authentic?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>TIA</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>Mike B<BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:mbloomer@gateway.net">mbloomer@gateway.net</A><BR>ICQ#=20
19113713<BR>72 Cutlass S (RIP)<BR>68 Cutlass=20
Supreme<BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01BE3805.B6EE1200--

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 18:25:36 EST
From: HURSTOLDZ@aol.com
Subject: Re: 70 Rallye 350???

2 door post cars had vent windows from 68-72

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 18:23:07 -0500
From: "R. Grant" <kgrant442@home.com>
Subject: RE: Dual Exhaust

I put dual exhaust on my 80 Cutlass about 3 years ago with flowtech headers,
had to cut the crossmember for the one side 21/2 to the back just stock
turbo mufflers. The shop that did it charged me 350$ CND to do it, cash as
the shop can not work on a car without cats.
Sounds great could spend more for stainless with better mufflers (maybe when
they rot off). I thought that Canada had strict laws until I read some of
the posts from the states. You have it bad my car is exempt form testing as
it is at the 19 year mark next year. It would have to be tested in 2001 if
it wasn't, so unless I get pulled over buy the police I will not have to
worry about cats or pollution. Then if I do get pulled over as I have in the
past (another car) you pull the plates off the car rather than take it to
testing. Then put the plates back on the car at a later date, as this car
will not be subjected to a pollution check.
I do plan on putting cats on the car just in case this happens so I will not
have to pay a fine, but that's all the police look for just cats.
As far as I am aware the only thing pollution testing is looking for is all
the pollution equipment is hooked up and at the pipes. I don't think they
care if it is one cat or two.

Kevin Grant
80 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 18:33:52 EST
From: RARE73OLDS@aol.com
Subject: Re: 70 Rallye 350???

I think vent windows were still on the sedan(post cars) All had yellow
bumpers(rallye 350)Harry , NJ.
<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/magsurv/index.html">1973 Olds Cutlass 455
4speed</A> 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 18:36:16 -0500
From: "Mike Rothe." <hurstolds@xtalwind.net>
Subject: Re: 70 Rallye 350???

> 2 door post cars had vent windows from 68-72

Well, sorta.  70 was the last year for the 2 door post cars.

But it sounds like a Rallye 350.  As far as W-31, reportedley there were
a handful of W-31 Rallyes made, but that wasn't the norm.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 17:41:41 -0600
From: "mbloomer" <mbloomer@gateway.net>
Subject: Re: Dual Exhaust

>> 
> Yes, I know.  But in my opinion if a car has only one converter,
>it's not true dual exhaust.
>


OK, think of it this way, a car with a balance pipe is stull
a true dual exhaust, right?  Makes more power if done 
correctly.  Some systems are designed so that the two
pipes join briefly in a larger pipe and then go back to 
separate pipes.  Still duals?  What about where they 
join (in place of the balace pipe which is reputed to 
make more power than a std balance pipe setup) 
you add a large high flow cat.  The cat size is equivalant
to both the single pipes so flow is not affected and 
basically is just the "balance section" of the exhaust.
Where is the exact blurry line between duals and 
single?  Just a couple thoughts to maybe satisfy 
everyone.

Mike B
mbloomer@gateway.net
ICQ# 19113713
72 Cutlass S (RIP)
68 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 15:38:39 -0800
From: Greg Rollin <supercars@transport.com>
Subject: Re: 70 Rallye 350???

Mike Rothe. wrote:
> 
> Well, sorta.  70 was the last year for the 2 door post cars.



Well, kinda sorta.  Although a 2 door Sport Coupe was 
not available in 1971, they were resurrected for 1972.   
;-)

Greg Rollin
Supercars Unlimited (Where Cutlass/4-4-2 is ALL we do!) 
Portland  Oregon  503-244-8249

Web site:
http://www.supercarsunlimited.com

E-mail: supercars@transport.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 17:49:45 -0600
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: Propane Conversion

Kerry, 
Have a lot of fork lifts at work, as you said, cold, no start, have a
vaporizer hooked to the thermostat housing, provides heat to the incoming
gas, have to leave them idling all winter, plugs and oil lasts forever,
burns very clean, if you live in the far South OK, do make a dual fuel
unit, and they will start when cold, then you switch to propane, but, if
you look at the price of propane the last few years gasoline is cheaper to
use. Used in enclosed warehouses because they have less emissions than
gasoline, especially CO. Don't want to put the workers to sleep.
Lou

- ----------
> From: Kerry Kroger <kerryk@cwix.com>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Propane Conversion
> Date: Monday, January 04, 1999 4:37 PM
> 
> also liquid propane will freeze just try it out with one of the little
> propane torches
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 18:12:19 -0600
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: Sigh! Joke!!

Kenny, 
Cry all the way to the bank I bet, do like me, screw off, you just don't
eat so good, keeps the cholesterol down. But then you get hypertension from
worrying about paying the bills. Was invited to Governors Inaugural, and a
private party for the new Sec. of State, black tie only, now maybe I can
get some good license plates, I'll suck up real good. take care.
Lou 

- ----------
> From: Kerry Kroger <kerryk@cwix.com>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Exhaust

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 18:57:51 -0500
From: "Thomas P. Smith" <smithtp@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Dual Exhaust

Seems to me Karl Aune had a little correspondence with the Illinois EPA about 
this
whole dual cat/exhaust issue.  He wanted to put dual cats on his car.  He's on
digest right now, I believe, otherwise I'd think he would have given us some
insight.  Anyway, if I remember the thread right, although it technically was a
no-no to modify the car's exhaust (a '65 Dynamic 88 with a 425, in his case) 
the
Illinois EPA would allow it if you could prove it reduced tailpipe emissions.  
Of
course, you know who'd have to foot the bill for the dyno test.  Anyhow, the 
IEPA
brought up the whole catalytic light-off question, too.  Don't quote me on all
this, it's just how I remember the thread.  If true it obviously is a
state-by-state thing.

But here's my theory.  How big is a 455?  Well, it's 455 cubic inches.  Next
question.  How big is HALF a 455?  Answer...227.5 cubic inches.  Shoot, there 
are
cars out there whose whole engine isn't 228 cubes.  So, it seems to me that if
each each of the two cats were sized for an engine half the size of the V8 
you're
outfitting, light-off should work.   I realize this is really oversimplifying.
Other factors like total engine mass, RPM, exhaust pipe size, proximity of the 
cat
to the engine, etc, also affect the temp of the exhaust at the cat.  Also,  a 
230
V6 would produce hotter total exhaust temps at the cat than a hypothetical 230 
4
cyl. because there would be more combustion strokes per RPM.  It's an 
interesting
thought, though.

- --
Thomas P. Smith
1971 Cutlass S 350
smithtp@ix.netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 19:08:28 EST
From: DROLDS350@aol.com
Subject: Re: 70 Rallye 350???

	Here are some Rallye 350 facts for you. If the car has any type of 
build
sheet or broadcast sheet it will say W-45 which was the code for the Rallye.
All Rallye 350's had yellow bumpers, but chrome ones were put on by the
dealerships to try to move the cars out quicker. All Rallye's were painted
sebring yellow (code 51) which would would either show up as two dashes or
"51" on the cowl tag. They were all built in Lansing, Michigan, so an "M" will
appear in the VIN. The cylinder head number had a 6 on it. The only interior
color available was the mandatory black. They had SSII painted yellow, blacked
out grills, cut-out bumper, sport steering wheel, and dual exhaust.The Rallye
was built on three models, the Cutlass S, Cutlass, and f-85. There were 1,020
f-85's, 2,367 Cutlass S's, and 160 Cutlass Sport Coupes. Hope that this info
helps! If you want to see pictures of a Rallye 350 check out my web page at
http://members.aol.com/drolds350/W45.html
If you have any other questions about Rallye's please let me know!
<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/drolds350/W45.html">Rallye 350 pictures</A> 
Good Luck,
Jim McKeague
70 Rallye 350
70 Cutlass S W-31

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 18:36:37 -0600
From: "mbloomer" <mbloomer@gateway.net>
Subject: Re: 72 cutlass tire size

I ran 85 Monte Carlo SS steel 15x7 rims (same 5 spokes that
came on a bunch of S-10's and such, silver w/ black around
the petagon shape holes) with 295/50 and it worked fine.  Your
now suppossed to mount the 295's on a rim less than 8" but the
only penalty was a slightly rounded sidewall and the center of the
tire wore out first.  To really stuff the wheelwells I would suggest
a set of poly bushings for the rearend if you don't have a rear sway
bar (both would be best) to control the side to side movement of
the rearend.  I had around 1" of clearance between the wheelwell
and the inside of the tire with rubber bushings and no sway bar.
during hard cornering there was slight contact but not enough to
hurt anything.  I also had a set of Corvette 15x8 rallye rims that
had 10.5 inch slicks that fit perfect with no mods.  Keep in mind
that the lower the rear sits (mine was fairly low) the shorter the
tire has to be due to the narrowing of the wheelwell as it gets
higher in the car.  Unless you try to scrape the pavement or
have a soft enough suspension to fully bottom out you should
be fine.  BTW if you use the monte carlo rims as a basis for
your rim measurements don't add any more backspacing.  I
still had a couple inches from the outside of the wheelwell lip
to the outside of the tire, so add the rim width on the outside.

Mike B
mbloomer@gateway.net
ICQ# 19113713
72 Cutlass S (RIP)
68 Cutlass Supreme

>        Depending on the offset of the new wheels you can get a 275/60-15
or a
>295/50-15 in there. The 275 fills them up without worries of scrapping them
if
>you keep the wheel offset closer to the frame side not the street side. The
>295's would take a close look at the wheel offset to fit them correctly.
>
>Jim Chermack

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 19:38:31 -0500
From: "Mike Rothe." <hurstolds@xtalwind.net>
Subject: Poster cars?

> Well, kinda sorta.  Although a 2 door Sport Coupe was
> not available in 1971, they were resurrected for 1972.
> ;-)

Interesting.  Never seen one.  I guess I never looked hard enough at the
72s.  Learn something new everyday.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 19:41:09 EST
From: DYeager535@aol.com
Subject: Re: Automatic trans. Converter instal

In a message dated 1/4/99 10:41:52 AM Pacific Standard Time,
Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM writes:

<< The oil pump drive tangs.  Of course, the problem with engagement is not
 how far in the converter goes, but how far you must pull it back out to
 mate with the flywheel.  Is there  a problem with the lugs on the converter
 (not tall enough) or with the flywheel?  Perhaps you could put shim washers
 between the flywheel and the converter lugs to space it further back in the
 oil pump (assuming the pilot still engages in the end of the crank).
 
 Actually, what did not engage properly, the oil pump or the input shaft?
 Is it possible that there's a problem internal to that transmission?
 
 Joe Padavano
 padavano.joe@orbital.com >>

     Joe, it ate the pump tangs up. Stripped the ends clean, and no go : )  I
put in a new pump, and a different converter, and to be sure, used washers
between the flexplate and convertor. I didn't have any problems, but this
seems to be a slightly dangerous guessing game. I really don't want to strip
the pump out again, and pushing it in too far, theoretically if the convertor
will go in that far, the welds will hit the seal, causing it to wear/leak.
Don't know if they are SUPPOSED to go that deep, but without having the pump
off the car, I can think of no way to measure the pump tang engagement with
the convertor. Dorian

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 19:42:10 EST
From: Onebil2mny@aol.com
Subject: The coolant thing

Ok, here is my reasons for a lack of thermostat causing the engine to get too
hot without the operator knowing it.   When coolant is passing through an
engine too fast it will not pbsorb heat (you don't cool an engine, you heat
coolant, which heats air).  This causes the metal to get too hot, which does
eventually cause the coolant that touches the metal to become steem.  This
steam actually insulates (it's an air pocket) the metal from the coolant.
This actually compounds the problem.  The radiator is more then capable of
removing the little heat generated by this steam action, so the temp guage
never reads the true operating temp.


Bill K

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 19:45:37 -0500
From: Jim or Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Subject: Re: Poster cars?

Mike

        I had a 72 W-30 Post Coupe a couple years back. Found out it was one of
17 cars made that way. I wish I had that car back even though it was a roach.

Jim Chermack

At 07:38 PM 1/4/99 , you wrote:
>> Well, kinda sorta.  Although a 2 door Sport Coupe was
>> not available in 1971, they were resurrected for 1972.
>> ;-)
>
>Interesting.  Never seen one.  I guess I never looked hard enough at the
>72s.  Learn something new everyday.
>
>Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 19:13:51 -0600
From: "Peter Landowski" <PETTRIX@prodigy.net>
Subject: Paint Freezing?

I was wondering if it is bad for auto paint that is in a can to freeze. I
have some in the garage and it will get to around -25 F with the windchill
tonight. Would this damage the base coat or clear coat in any way?


Pettrix@prodigy.net

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 19:58:17 EST
From: Onebil2mny@aol.com
Subject: Re: The coolant thing

oops.... wrong list!

Bill K

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 19:12:36 -0600
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: Dual Exhaust

Thomas, 
gets a little thick at this point, know what I mean/
Lou

- ----------
> From: Thomas P. Smith <smithtp@ix.netcom.com>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 20:17:25 -0500
From: "Michael Davis" <mdavis@metrobankandtrust.com>
Subject: Re: ID-ing a 442

The options are right on.  The only models with the split head lights were
the 67' and 68' but sounds like the only option is the 68' because of the
statement one looked to be of the 70's vintage.  The body styles changed
from 67' to 68'.  The 67' squarer and longer than the 68' which could be
confused with the 70's styles.
My vote is for the 68'.  
					Mike Davis
					68' 442

- ----------
> From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: ID-ing a 442
> Date: Monday, January 04, 1999 11:55 AM
> 
> Four round headlights, each pair surrounded by a rectangular box of
chrome
> trim. There's a rectangular driving light (parking light?) in between
each
> pair of headlights.
> _________
> 
> As others have already pointed out, only the 67 and 68 Cutlass/442 had
the
> parking lights mounted between the high and low beam headlights.  The 68
> used a flat lens on this parking light, while the 67 will have a
horizontal
> peak across the lens.  The 67 will have a more "squarish" body with sharp
> edges on the fenders, while the 68 will be more curved.  The absolute ID
> comes from the sixth digit in the VIN, which will be a "7" for 1967 and
an
> "8" for 1968.  Note however that neither year 442 used an "Oldsmobile"
> script on the grille, though the 67 non-442 A-bodies _did_ have
OLDSMOBILE
> in block letters on the center grille bar; 68s used a chrome OLDSMOBILE
> script on the left front corner of the hood on non-442s.  67 442s
replaced
> the Olds logo on the grille bar with a 442 emblem; 68s deleted the Olds
> script on the hood and used large 442 numerals on the grille.  Note also
> that either year 442 will have a black plastic egg-crate grille, while
> non-442s will have a silver plastic grille with vertical bars (in 68) or
a
> horizontal metal bar with the aforementioned OLDSMOBILE logo (in 67).
> 
> Joe Padavano
> padavano.joe@orbital.com
> 
> 66 442
> 68 W-30
> 69 H/O
> 69 442
> 70 W-30
> 

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #1700
*********************************

