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Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #1739


oldsmobile-digest     Thursday, January 28 1999     Volume 01 : Number 1739



Primer Q's
Re: Woodgrain
Re: '71 Vista Cruiser King Pin. Will '71 Caprice part fit?
4 speed console
Bryceman?
Re: Classic Car Insurance
442 for Sale (hate to do it)
Re: M21 or M22 Behind ~Worked~ 455
Re: Woodgrain
Re: FS 66-69 Cutlass/4-4-2 parts
Q-jet solved
Re: Rear end Type Question
Re: 442 for Sale (hate to do it)
Re: Woodgrain
Re: Woodgrain
Re: Woodgrain
Re: Req: Ashtray Cover & Boxed Ctrl. Arm
need center caps ...
Re: M21 or M22 Behind ~Worked~ 455
Re: Ashtray Cover & Boxed Ctrl. Arm
Re: Classic Car Insurance
Re: Ashtray Cover & Boxed Ctrl. Arm
Window noise
Re: Window noise
Re: Classic Car Insurance
Re: M21 or M22 Behind ~Worked~ 455
Re: Classic Car Insurance
DON'T REPLY TO DIGESTS! [was Re; 72 Hurst Olds??]
Re: Diesel 350
Re: Diesel 350
Welding L. Control Arms for Traction
Impala SS Vs. Delta 88
A-arms, Poly bushings and shocks
Re: Mailing list profile?
Re: Bryceman?
Ring End Gap/Who to Believe?
Chris Sparks Olds FS in SoCal(fwd)
UNBOUNCE: 4 speed console
Re: DON'T REPLY TO DIGESTS! [was Re; 72 Hurst Olds??]
M21 or M22 good info (this should clear it up) 
Re: Welding L. Control Arms for Traction
RE: Classic Car Insurance
Re: M21 or M22 good info (this should clear it up)
Re: Year One discounts
d heads
Re: Classic Car Insurance
Re: Classic Car Insurance
Re: Need suggestions for a personalized plate ('68 442 conv.) 
Re: Computer
Body work HORROR story + PLEASE Help W/Sheetmetal!
Re: Window noise

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 20:15:28 -0600
From: "Mike Bloomer" <mbloomer@minspring.com>
Subject: Primer Q's

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The recent thread on Maaco has got me to thinking about the=20
bodywork I will be starting on my 68 soon.  On my 72 I welded
in new sheetmetal to repair the rust spots on the front fenders
and when it came to primer I just used spray can auto primer.
It sat like that for about 6 months or so until I wrecked the back
end of the car (concrete wall, interstate, 70 mph, long story).
My shop did the mechanical side of insurance work for the
Maaco down the road, so I worked out a deal to get my car
fixed.  While they were repainting the back of the car I had them
do the fenders too.  Came out really well and never had any=20
problems.

The question is, what is the big difference between the "professional"
auto body primer and a high quality spray can version?  What
problems could you run into using the spray can variety?  Is it=20
really such a terrible sin as I think I'm about to hear it is?

TIA
Mike B
mbloomer@mindspring.com
ICQ# 19113713
http://members.tripod.com/CutlassFreak/


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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>The recent thread on Maaco has got me to =
thinking about=20
the </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>bodywork I will be starting on my 68 =
soon.&nbsp; On my=20
72 I welded</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>in new sheetmetal to repair the rust spots on =
the front=20
fenders</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>and when it came to primer I just used spray =
can auto=20
primer.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>It sat like that for about 6 months or so =
until I=20
wrecked the back</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>end of the car (concrete wall, interstate, 70 =
mph, long=20
story).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>My shop did the mechanical side of insurance work for the</DIV>
<DIV>Maaco down the road, so I worked out a deal to get my car</DIV>
<DIV>fixed.&nbsp; While they were repainting the back of the car I had=20
them</DIV>
<DIV>do the fenders too.&nbsp; Came out really well and never had any =
</DIV>
<DIV>problems.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>The question is, what is the big difference between the=20
&quot;professional&quot;</DIV>
<DIV>auto body primer and a high quality spray can version?&nbsp; =
What</DIV>
<DIV>problems could you run into using the spray can variety?&nbsp; Is =
it </DIV>
<DIV>really such a terrible sin as I think I'm about to hear it =
is?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>TIA</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"" size=3D3>Mike B<BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:mbloomer@gateway.net">mbloomer@mindspring.com</A><BR>ICQ# =

19113713<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://members.tripod.com/CutlassFreak/">http://members.tripod.co=
m/CutlassFreak/</A><BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:18:46 EST
From: Fireman431@aol.com
Subject: Re: Woodgrain

Year One makes excellent reproduction pieces. They will send you a free
catalog for the asking.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:23:10 -0800 (PST)
From: John Pajak <jspajak@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: '71 Vista Cruiser King Pin. Will '71 Caprice part fit?

Oldsfire@aol.com wrote:
Front end parts should interchange, according to my parts interchange
manual!!

>>Are you sure you didn't confuse Vista Cruiser (Cutlass based wagon)
with the Custom Cruiser (88 based wagon)? Impala parts could fit a
Custom Cruiser but not a Vista!



==
"2 + 2 = 5 for sufficiently large values of 2"

John Pajak
Lexington Park, Maryland

Check out our cars, trucks and a whole lot more at
http://members.tripod.com/~JSPajak
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:19:08 -0500
From: Roger Nienberg <nienberg2@wright.edu>
Subject: 4 speed console

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    Does anyone have or know anyone that has a center console for a 69 =
cutlass with a four speed? Or anything comparable that would fit and =
look ok. The interior is black.  Any suggestions on where I could find =
one would also be appreciated.


Roger=20
69' Cutlass S 350-4-speed
Glandorf,OH

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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Does anyone have or know anyone =
that has a=20
center console for a 69 cutlass with a four speed? Or anything =
comparable that=20
would fit and look ok. The interior is black.&nbsp; Any suggestions on =
where I=20
could find one would also be appreciated.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Roger&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>69' Cutlass S 350-4-speed</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Glandorf,OH</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:33:52 -0500
From: "Master Costanzo" <costanzo@netcarrier.com>
Subject: Bryceman?

Who is Bryceman and how did he get that 442.com domain?  Is he a list
member?  Is that site just his own private site?  Does he have a daughter
around the age of 23?

Ray Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass (hibernating)
84 Calais ($200!)
costanzo@netcarrier.com
http://www.user1.netcarrier.com/~costanzo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:45:55 -0700
From: "Larry Pegg" <nurelic@primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Classic Car Insurance

American Family charged me about half of my normal rate when I went to
classic part time use.  I got a good rate on my other 30 year old cars too
but since I never totaled one I'm not sure if they would have come through
on the stated value of my cars.  They did cover a hit and run parking lot
crunch that cost about $1000.  I had to get an appraisal and take some pics
very painless really

LP
- -----Original Message-----
From: jlabay <jlabay@neo.rr.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 3:09 PM
Subject: Classic Car Insurance


>I need some advice as to what is the best Classic Car Insurance company out
>there.  I want to get my 80 442 W-30 on classic car insurance since my
>current insurance company will only insure it as an 80 Cutlass.  Do most
>require appraisals? If so who is the best to appraise it? I am not too
>familiar with the insurance terminology such as stated, vesus, actual, etc
>when insuring a classic.  Any advice would be appreciated.
>
>Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio
>80 442 W-30
>75 H/O W-25
>72 Cutlass Supreme...R.I.P.
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:41:41 EST
From: Fireman431@aol.com
Subject: 442 for Sale (hate to do it)

It hurts, but here it is:

1966 442 convertible.

ENGINE: 1972 .30 over 455
               steel crankshaft
               custom ground Crane cam
               10.5 : 1 pop ups
               double roller timing chain
               Offenhauser Tunnel Ram
               2 Carter AFB 600 carbs
               Doug Thorley headers with 3" aluminum exhaust

TRANSMISSION: Muncie M21 4 speed (very tight)

INTERIOR: Completely redone using dark maroon inserts surrounded by white
trim. 
                 All door and kick/comfort panels are in matching dark maroon
                 New black carpet (Year One correct replacement)

WIRING:  Every inch replaced by a Painless Wiring 18 circuit setup using ATO
fuse      		    block 
               New lights / lamps / bulbs
              New power convertible top pump
              Electric fuel pump
              White faced Autometer Phantom guages (inset in dash)

FEET:   Centerline Con-vo Pros (new) wheels....15x10 and 15x7
             BF Goodrich Comp T/A's
             Ladder bar rear suspension


Needs to have the body work and paint finished. Very strong car (approx 475
HP).
Must sell...need the money......can internet pics.......in the central florida
area...
$9000.00 or best offer

Larry

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:47:46 -0700
From: "Larry Pegg" <nurelic@primenet.com>
Subject: Re: M21 or M22 Behind ~Worked~ 455

I'd bet some good money that the m 22 is the Rock crusher had one and it
does make some noise on the down shift hence the name.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Oldsfire@aol.com <Oldsfire@aol.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: M21 or M22 Behind ~Worked~ 455


>Steve Reed   Why do you think that the M21 got the nickname
"Rockcrusher"???
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:47:25 EST
From: Dan442Olds@aol.com
Subject: Re: Woodgrain

In a message dated 1/27/99 8:22:47 PM Central Standard Time,
Fireman431@aol.com writes:

<< Year One makes excellent reproduction pieces. They will send you a free
 catalog for the asking.
  >>
Year One has discontinued selling them and knows of no other sources.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:51:50 -0700
From: "Larry Pegg" <nurelic@primenet.com>
Subject: Re: FS 66-69 Cutlass/4-4-2 parts

I had two different Chevy heads on the same motor once it was a rebuild I
got when I bought the car.  Makes one go Hmmmmm...

LP
- -----Original Message-----
From: CARMAN442@aol.com <CARMAN442@aol.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 4:35 PM
Subject: Re: FS 66-69 Cutlass/4-4-2 parts


> First time I ever heard of two different heads on an engine. I think your
>chain has  has  no slack left in it!
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:45:41 EST
From: R442@aol.com
Subject: Q-jet solved

Thanks a million guys. The information you gave me was dead on. I did the the
straw test with a long screw, head down, and found the power valve stuck in
the up position. I took the top off the carb. and found that the metering rod
was misaligned and had become bent.The valve was held open at all times.I
replaced the metering rods with some I had laying around.My 442 fired right up
and was running great again. I am planning on going with a larger cam in the
near future,so I`m sure i will need to do some more adjustments.
Thanks again 

Rob
66 442 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:57:01 -0800 (PST)
From: John Pajak <jspajak@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Rear end Type Question

Shang <shang@connect.net> wrote:
<SNIP>These rearends can be found in just about any A body from 1971-2
to 1977 and are considerably cheaper than any other rearend.

>Right! Just remember that the 73-77 rear is not a direct bolt-in in
an earlier A-body. The spring perchs are in differnet spots, and there
may be other fitment differences also. But the carriers and ring and
pinion gears are the same. I have a 72 8.5" rear with a posi carrier
from a 73-77 rear installed in it!
==
"2 + 2 = 5 for sufficiently large values of 2"

John Pajak
Lexington Park, Maryland

Check out our cars, trucks and a whole lot more at
http://members.tripod.com/~JSPajak
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 20:04:18 -0700
From: "Larry Pegg" <nurelic@primenet.com>
Subject: Re: 442 for Sale (hate to do it)

I hate to see you sell it too and I don't even know you .  Maybe we could
take up a collection how much do you need. :-)

LP
- -----Original Message-----
From: Fireman431@aol.com <Fireman431@aol.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 7:49 PM
Subject: 442 for Sale (hate to do it)


>It hurts, but here it is:
>
>1966 442 convertible.
>
>ENGINE: 1972 .30 over 455
>               steel crankshaft
>               custom ground Crane cam
>               10.5 : 1 pop ups
>               double roller timing chain
>               Offenhauser Tunnel Ram
>               2 Carter AFB 600 carbs
>               Doug Thorley headers with 3" aluminum exhaust
>
>TRANSMISSION: Muncie M21 4 speed (very tight)
>
>INTERIOR: Completely redone using dark maroon inserts surrounded by white
>trim.
>                 All door and kick/comfort panels are in matching dark
maroon
>                 New black carpet (Year One correct replacement)
>
>WIRING:  Every inch replaced by a Painless Wiring 18 circuit setup using
ATO
>fuse          block
>               New lights / lamps / bulbs
>              New power convertible top pump
>              Electric fuel pump
>              White faced Autometer Phantom guages (inset in dash)
>
>FEET:   Centerline Con-vo Pros (new) wheels....15x10 and 15x7
>             BF Goodrich Comp T/A's
>             Ladder bar rear suspension
>
>
>Needs to have the body work and paint finished. Very strong car (approx 475
>HP).
>Must sell...need the money......can internet pics.......in the central
florida
>area...
>$9000.00 or best offer
>
>Larry
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:00:29 EST
From: ANTIQOLDS@aol.com
Subject: Re: Woodgrain

In a message dated 1/27/99 5:29:07 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Dan442Olds@aol.com writes:

<< 
 I need the woodgrain for the dash and console for my 70 442.  Does anyone
know
 who may be producing these?
 Thanks,
 
 Dan
  >>
Advertised in latest Journey With Olds, H&H is reproducing them phone
614-443-5809. they say all woodgrain kits are laminated to steel like the
original
3 pc dash kit  $125.00   console pc $35.00

Everett   OCA# 1961   1961  Starfire

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:05:19 EST
From: Lou0118@aol.com
Subject: Re: Woodgrain

In a message dated 1/27/99 9:22:53 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Fireman431@aol.com writes:

<< Year One makes excellent reproduction pieces. They will send you a free
 catalog for the asking. >>

Their catalog cost $5.00, however they will credit you $7.50 on your first
order.

Lou Principe
69 442 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:09:11 -0500
From: "Jim" <jimmeeks@sprintmail.com>
Subject: Re: Woodgrain

I purchased the kit for the 70 Cutlass and it is identical to the original
in every way.  The kit came on time and was exactly as advertised.  Very,
Very satisfied.

JIM
- -----Original Message-----
From: ANTIQOLDS@aol.com <ANTIQOLDS@aol.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: Woodgrain


>In a message dated 1/27/99 5:29:07 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>Dan442Olds@aol.com writes:
>
><<
> I need the woodgrain for the dash and console for my 70 442.  Does anyone
>know
> who may be producing these?
> Thanks,
>
> Dan
>  >>
>Advertised in latest Journey With Olds, H&H is reproducing them phone
>614-443-5809. they say all woodgrain kits are laminated to steel like the
>original
>3 pc dash kit  $125.00   console pc $35.00
>
>Everett   OCA# 1961   1961  Starfire
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:08:06 -0600
From: "Mike Bloomer" <mbloomer@minspring.com>
Subject: Re: Req: Ashtray Cover & Boxed Ctrl. Arm

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Want to give it a good home instead of parting it out?  Hate to see =
another=20
good car get parted that could easily be put back on the road.

Mike B
mbloomer@mindspring.com
ICQ# 19113713
http://members.tripod.com/CutlassFreak/

   =20
   =20
         Me and a friend just picked up a 70 Cutlass Supreme last week. =
All we are
    interested in is the "tic-toc-tac". and maybe the disc brakes. We =
only are
    interested in 65's, but the price was right (free) as the original =
owner was
    moving to Iowa and had no interest in taking the car with him.=20
       The bad: The engine is missing a cylinder head (may be in the =
trunk...we
    dont know), interior is totaly shot (of course), and tailights are =
cracked.
       The good: all sheetmetal is in above avg. to very good condition, =
frame has
    very little surface rust,  glas and chrome is nice.=20
   =20
    We are located just south of Dallas, and the car is still on the =
trailer.=20
   =20
    Collyn Eastham
    65 442
    65 Cutlass

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>Want to give it a good home instead of parting it out?&nbsp; Hate =
to see=20
another </DIV>
<DIV>good car get parted that could easily be put back on the =
road.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"" size=3D3>Mike B<BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:mbloomer@mindspring.com">mbloomer@mindspring.com</A></FONT=
></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"" size=3D3><A=20
href=3D"mailto:mbloomer@gateway.net"></A>ICQ# 19113713<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://members.tripod.com/CutlassFreak/">http://members.tripod.co=
m/CutlassFreak/</A><BR></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px"><BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    Me and a friend just picked up a 70 Cutlass Supreme last week. All =
we=20
    are<BR>interested in is the &quot;tic-toc-tac&quot;. and maybe the =
disc=20
    brakes. We only are<BR>interested in 65's, but the price was right =
(free) as=20
    the original owner was<BR>moving to Iowa and had no interest in =
taking the=20
    car with him. <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; The bad: The engine is missing a =
cylinder=20
    head (may be in the trunk...we<BR>dont know), interior is totaly =
shot (of=20
    course), and tailights are cracked.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; The good: all =
sheetmetal=20
    is in above avg. to very good condition, frame has<BR>very little =
surface=20
    rust,&nbsp; glas and chrome is nice. <BR><BR>We are located just =
south of=20
    Dallas, and the car is still on the trailer. <BR><BR>Collyn =
Eastham<BR>65=20
    442<BR>65 Cutlass</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:13:34 -0500
From: "Patton" <patton@ComCAT.COM>
Subject: need center caps ...

List,

        Anyone out there with contacts with
a custom wheel outlet please get back to
me. I am looking for Cragger Pro Tech
center disks - about 6" in diameter - and
the word  CRAGGER to one side...

Tanks
The General      :o{)}    patton@comcat.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:13:12 EST
From: Stakin@aol.com
Subject: Re: M21 or M22 Behind ~Worked~ 455

LOL  sorry  I find humor in this  as I have have 3 boxes of old M21 parts,
numerous twisted axels,  but have never damaged a driveshaft. But boy have I
ever broken muncies . Full manual th-400 sitting on the floor now ready to go
in. 

Joe Stackman

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:18:47 -0500
From: "rkn" <rkn@ezaccess.net>
Subject: Re: Ashtray Cover & Boxed Ctrl. Arm

Can't help with the parts, but I bought a gas tank from an Arizona bone
yard, you could still see the ink markings on it from the metal supplier.
Excelent condition.
				R. Kevin Noon
				66 Dynamic 88 Convertible
				85 DRB (for sale)

- ----------
> From: Reed, Stephen <sreed@chatsworth.com>
> To: 'Olds' <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Subject: Req: Ashtray Cover & Boxed Ctrl. Arm
> Date: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 10:59 AM
> 
> Hey all,
> 	As I'm compiling a list of the necessary things for the finish of
> the restification I am I need of a few things that could be acquired from
a
> junk yard, or spare parts bin.
> 
> I need:
> 
> 1.  1970 Olds Glove Box Door (Black)
> 2.  Ash Tray Cover (Black)
> 3.  1 Boxed rear Control Arm
> 
> I am also in the market for getting some quality sheet metal.  I also
need a
> pair of fenders.  Has anyone had GOOD experience with any Arizona or
other
> state sheetmetal yard?  These will bee needed in a month or two, so I'd
> appreciate to hear ~ANY~ stories anyone has relating to sheetmetal, used
or
> new.  Which would one suggest??
> 
> Steve Reed
> '70 4-4-2 'Ragtop
> Austin, TX

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:33:11 EST
From: Lou0118@aol.com
Subject: Re: Classic Car Insurance

When I was going to buy my 69 442 W-30 I called several classic car insurance
companies that I got from Hemmings.  They all asked what the value of the car
was, I gave them a figure that was more than what I was paying for it.  Most
of them came back with the same price quote.  I went with Hagerty Classic
Insurance (800-922-4050).  

The guys I spoke to there really knew their cars.  I asked if it was OK to
take my car to work if I was going to a cruise after work. They said "no
problem, we know people like to show off their cars."

When I asked about mileage per year, they said there was no limit.  All I had
to do was fill out the application, send a picture and check and about 10 days
later I had the insurance card and policy.  I did not have to get an
appraisal, though I know it's good idea to have one done.

Just hope I don't have to file any claims.

Lou Principe
69 442 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:39:08 -0600 (CST)
From: Dr-Olds@webtv.net (Kevin D. Wood)
Subject: Re: Ashtray Cover & Boxed Ctrl. Arm

Maybe I can help you on the Glove Box Door
and the Ashtray door for your '70.  I had one
years ago that sadly took a curb in a rainstorm.
I do however save everything, and I think I still
have both of those pieces in the attic of my
storage area.  If so, I will gladly part with them
cheaply.  If you have not located them yet, let 
me know and I will take a look.  Yes, they are
even black.   They won't do me a lot of good in
my 72 Supreme with a Saddle interior...

Dr-Olds@webtv.net
aka Kevin D. Wood
Wisconsin

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:19:55 -0000
From: "Mike Druger" <mdruger@email.msn.com>
Subject: Window noise

I have a 71 Cutlass S that has a lot of wind noise.  The glass windows do
not press against the newly installed weatherstripping very tightly.  Is
there a little clamp device in the upper front weatherstrip molding that
holds the window pressed against the weatherstripping?

Also, It seems like the windows themselves are loose.  When I open the door
and grab the window with a hand on each side, I can rock the window back and
forth from front to back.  Are these windows loose, or is this typical?

Mike Druger
West Chester, PA

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:32:27 -0600
From: "Mike Bloomer" <mbloomer@minspring.com>
Subject: Re: Window noise

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0135_01BE4A44.EB0D46E0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Mike,
This is not typical and is a sign of worn out guides/bushings.  The
easiest approach would be to find a good window regulator in a=20
junkyard and swap yours out.  As far as the glass not pressing=20
against the weatherstrip, it is completely adjustable for position
as well as how far the limits are for rolling it up/down.  To do any
of it though, you have to pull the door panel, which is pretty easy.
The hardest part is popping the hidden clips (there's a special
tool available at most auto parts stores for cheap) that hold on the
window crank and door handle.  If it's only the driver's door that is
loose, you can pull both the door panels and compare the two to
easily find out what's worn out.  There are some nylon guides that
might have broken, or simply bolts/nuts that have loosened up=20
letting the tracks move.

Mike B
mbloomer@mindspring.com
ICQ# 19113713
http://members.tripod.com/CutlassFreak/

   =20
   =20
   =20
    I have a 71 Cutlass S that has a lot of wind noise.  The glass =
windows do
    not press against the newly installed weatherstripping very tightly. =
 Is
    there a little clamp device in the upper front weatherstrip molding =
that
    holds the window pressed against the weatherstripping?
   =20
    Also, It seems like the windows themselves are loose.  When I open =
the door
    and grab the window with a hand on each side, I can rock the window =
back and
    forth from front to back.  Are these windows loose, or is this =
typical?
   =20
    Mike Druger
    West Chester, PA
   =20
   =20


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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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<HEAD>

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http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT =
size=3D3>Mike,</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT size=3D3></FONT><FONT =
size=3D3>This is not=20
typical and is a sign of worn out guides/bushings.&nbsp; =
The</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT size=3D3></FONT></FONT>easiest =
approach would=20
be to find a good window regulator in a </DIV>
<DIV>junkyard and swap yours out.&nbsp; As far as the glass not pressing =
</DIV>
<DIV>against the weatherstrip, it is completely adjustable for =
position</DIV>
<DIV>as well as how far the limits are for rolling it up/down.&nbsp; To =
do=20
any</DIV>
<DIV>of it though, you have to pull the door panel, which is pretty =
easy.</DIV>
<DIV>The hardest part is popping the hidden clips (there's a =
special</DIV>
<DIV>tool available at most auto parts stores for cheap) that hold on =
the</DIV>
<DIV>window crank and door handle.&nbsp; If it's only the driver's door =
that=20
is</DIV>
<DIV>loose, you can pull both the door panels and compare the two =
to</DIV>
<DIV>easily find out what's worn out.&nbsp; There are some nylon guides=20
that</DIV>
<DIV>might have broken, or simply bolts/nuts that have loosened up =
</DIV>
<DIV>letting the tracks move.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"" size=3D3>Mike B<BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:mbloomer@mindspring.com">mbloomer@mindspring.com</A></FONT=
></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"" size=3D3><A=20
href=3D"mailto:mbloomer@gateway.net"></A>ICQ# 19113713<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://members.tripod.com/CutlassFreak/">http://members.tripod.co=
m/CutlassFreak/</A><BR></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>&nbsp;</DIV></FONT>I have a 71 =
Cutlass S=20
    that has a lot of wind noise.&nbsp; The glass windows do<BR>not =
press=20
    against the newly installed weatherstripping very tightly.&nbsp; =
Is<BR>there=20
    a little clamp device in the upper front weatherstrip molding =
that<BR>holds=20
    the window pressed against the weatherstripping?<BR><BR>Also, It =
seems like=20
    the windows themselves are loose.&nbsp; When I open the door<BR>and =
grab the=20
    window with a hand on each side, I can rock the window back =
and<BR>forth=20
    from front to back.&nbsp; Are these windows loose, or is this=20
    typical?<BR><BR>Mike Druger<BR>West Chester,=20
PA<BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0135_01BE4A44.EB0D46E0--

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:35:21 -0600
From: "Mark Tupper" <mtupper@palacenet.net>
Subject: Re: Classic Car Insurance

>When I was going to buy my 69 442 W-30 I called several classic car
insurance
>companies that I got from Hemmings.  They all asked what the value of the
car
>was, I gave them a figure that was more than what I was paying for it.
Most
>of them came back with the same price quote.  I went with Hagerty Classic
>Insurance (800-922-4050).


I think the original post was for an '80 442(?) When I called Hagerty about
my '87 442 they wouldn't insure it because it was too "new". I don't know
what the cutoff date is though.

- -Mark Tupper     1987 442    (OCA 30666)
mtupper@palacenet.net     http://cyberglyphs.com/442/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:32:31 EST
From: Onebil2mny@aol.com
Subject: Re: M21 or M22 Behind ~Worked~ 455

In a message dated 1/27/1999 5:14:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Oldsfire@aol.com writes:

<< Steve Reed   Why do you think that the M21 got the nickname
"Rockcrusher"??? >>


Actually, I believe that was the M-22, and it had to do with how hard it was
to shift due to it's straiter cut gears....  I could be wrong of course.   I
do know however that I had a M-20 (wide ratio, good for highway gears) behind
a worked over LS-6 crate motor in a 66 Chevelle conv.  The car ran low 12s and
never had a tranny problem.  I launched with 10 inch slicks.

SeeYa!
Bill K

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:08:50 PST
From: "Chris Rivier" <crivier@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Classic Car Insurance

Hi guys,

I have had to do this.  Most require a limited number of miles driven 
per year and an enclosed garage.

Some also require your car to have a minimum appraisal value, e.g. $3000 
or more.

Just my $.02,

Chris Rivier
Austin,TX
'66 Delta 88...The BEAST is BACK!
'88 Festiva...ZIPPY 166K LAWN ORNAMENT!


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 05:29:52 GMT
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: DON'T REPLY TO DIGESTS! [was Re; 72 Hurst Olds??]

>I received a phone call today, This guy has a 72 Cutlass he wants to sell,
 [snip]
>> From: oldsmobile-digest <oldsmobile-digest-owner@chebucto.ns.ca>
                    ^^^^^^
Um, just a note of digest etiquette: 

<soapbox>
DON'T _EVER_ use your e-mail's "Reply to:" feature to reply to a digest!
Unless, that is, you singlehandedly want to bring the internet to its knees.
You end up sending a copy of the entire previous digest to everyone who has
already received it.

Cut and paste the relevant info into a new message addressed to the Olds list.
</soapbox>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:31:57 -0700
From: "Igor T. '81 DRB 455" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Re: Diesel 350

>Hi all
>I'm wondering about the diesel 350.  Was it a good engine as far as diesels
>go?  Would it be something that you'd want to use to tow things?  Or was it
>just a gasoline engine in a diesel disguise?  Anyone know the specs?  I'd
>like to add another future car fantasy to my list that would be an 87
>duallie Cutlass that is Olds powered.  Thanks.


From what I have heard, it was a trouble-some 350 Gas olds converted to
Diesel.  Most people had the gas engine put in it as the Diesel was no good.
The Diesel block is a good place to start a build-up though.  It has large,
BB mains that would allow it to accept a BB crank (425 only, I think) which
would allow you to stroke a SB Olds for serious power.  I don't think you
would want a Diesel.  Just put a propane-powered high compression 455 in it
and that will allow you for excellent towing, power and economy.  Igor.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 00:34:58 EST
From: Gutlass66@aol.com
Subject: Re: Diesel 350

yeah, and check out <A HREF="http://www.angelfire.com/wa/Olds442z">Kelly's
Oldsmobiles</A>!!!!!
Kelly ERickson
1966 CUtlass

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:42:31 -0700
From: "Igor T. '81 DRB 455" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Welding L. Control Arms for Traction

I was talking to this guy today, and he told me that I should pull my
stamped control arms ('81 Delta 88), particularly lower control arms and
have a plate put into the hollow bottom and welded for strength.  He told me
that when I punch it, the lower control arms flex (makes sense as they look
cheap for all that power).  With the welded plate on the bottom (some hard
material), they would not flex and the car would hook up better.  He said to
do this, put polyurethane bushings in, put the battery in the trunk and that
should do the trick.  Now I have 255/60/15 tires on the car and a posi and
no traction.  I wanted 15x10s and 295/50/15 tires but he said to go with
15x8s (much better fit) and keep my 255s.  It makes sense as that would do
nothing but strengthen the control arms.  Those ones you can buy (not for my
car), look similar.

I am concerned about the drivability of the car if I do this.  What would it
do for handling/cornering/ride.  I can't really see it do anything negative.
Also, on that note, is the part where the control arms mount to the frame
strong enough.  In this case more stress would be on that part and it could
brake.

Thanks.  Igor.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:56:18 -0700
From: "Igor T. '81 DRB 455" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Impala SS Vs. Delta 88

Okay, the title was just to get your attention.  Some day perhaps, but not
yet.  Anyway, the purpose of this post is to ask and get a REPLY if a set of
Impala SS (1991-1996) Lowering Springs (all 4) would fit my '81 Delta 88
4-door).  I would like to lower the car about 2".  The easiest would be to
get a set of these springs, but I can also cut my front and try to put
crimps on the back.  The back springs are new TRWs, but if the crimp does
not work then maybe the Impala springs would be better.  My fron't are old
and although still good, a new set would be better.  Also, I am woried that
crimped springs in the back would not become harder, and I want a stiff
ride.  Since I installed air-shocks, if the car sits a little lower then I
like, that is no problem.  Soooo, do those Impala springs fit?  Igor.
Thanks.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:02:58 -0700
From: "Igor T. '81 DRB 455" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: A-arms, Poly bushings and shocks

So, since I would like to either cut my springs or put new ones in, I would
have to take the shock and front springs out.  While I am there, might as
well take the A-arms off and put some poly bushings in it.  My question is:

1) How hard is it to take the A-arms out to change the bushings?

2) Are the bushings themselves a bitch?

3) Is it worth it (for handling)?

4) What about noise and ride?

5) How much would it cost for the parts?

6) Are the bushings worth changing in the rear?

7) and since the shock is out, what about a set of stiff, good handling
shocks (especially if the car is a little lowered).  Sooo, what would be
good, well priced, front shocks that would be stiff.

Thanks a lot.  Also, I plan on a Trans Am sway bar and a set of poly
bushings and end-links for that as well.  The '81 Delta should really handle
well and corner great.  If I could only hook-up, it would go great too.
15x7s and 15x8 wheels, 255/60/15 tires (maybe even wider on the back), 455,
lower suspension and air-shocks, she should handle and ride well.  Big 455
will get me in trouble again, however.  Igor.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 01:42:34 -0500
From: "RANDY A GEISEL" <RANDYGEISEL@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Mailing list profile?

>Q: How many list subscribers does it take to change a light bulb?
>
>A: 1,331:


Wrong, wrong,wrong............1,332   You forgot the guy (me) making a post
saying that this was already posted a few months back. ;-)

>Sounds familiar doesn't it?


Yep!

No flames intended.........Randy

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 01:06:15 -0600
From: <shang@connect.net>
Subject: Re: Bryceman?

442.com is his private domain. You can get your own domain from internic
(www.internic.com) provided it isn't already spoken for :)

Stephen Hoover
Dallas, Texas
'70 Supreme

Master Costanzo wrote:
> 
> Who is Bryceman and how did he get that 442.com domain?  Is he a list
> member?  Is that site just his own private site?  Does he have a daughter
> around the age of 23?
> 
> Ray Costanzo
> 87 409 Cutlass (hibernating)
> 84 Calais ($200!)
> costanzo@netcarrier.com
> http://www.user1.netcarrier.com/~costanzo
.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 02:03:05 -0600
From: "Peter Landowski" <PETTRIX@prodigy.net>
Subject: Ring End Gap/Who to Believe?

I bought C&A zero gap rings for my 455 motor. Mondello recommends .014" -
.016" on the top ring for street use and .012" - .014" for the second ring
with street use. I called C&A and they recommend .018" - .020" for the top
ring/strret use and .016" for the second ring. So who to believe here??

I went .017" - .018" on the top ring and .016" on the second ring.
Mondello's tech reference manual states .016" - .018" for
bracket/competition use on the top ring and .014" - .016" on the second
ring.
Anyone else have this setup??

Pettrix@prodigy.net

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 06:47:37 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Chris Sparks Olds FS in SoCal(fwd)

Chris is no longer on the list and needs to make some changes... he's a
good guy. Contact him at mrada@catalina-inter.net if you're interested.

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: mrada <mrada@catalina-inter.net>

Well I have a request to ask of you.  I am thinking of selling my
non-Frosty Oldsmobiles and wanted to know if you can post my request to
the list.  I will be selling Scarlet (68 442 HT) , Saffron (68 442 HT),
and Dr.B (82 Delta 88 Royale).  Of course everyone knows what Scarlet
looks like and Saffron is in worse shape (rust and all).  The two together
should provide parts to make one good car with parts left over.  The Delta
is in pretty good condition.  I haven't come up with a price as yet,
however, I need to move them. 

Please have people contact me at mrada@catalina-inter.net

Thanks,
Chris Sparks
http://www.catalina-inter.net/mrada

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 06:50:30 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: UNBOUNCE: 4 speed console

Not on the list; respond to nienberg2@wright.edu if you can assist.

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:	Roger Nienberg <nienberg2@wright.edu>
Subject: 4 speed console

    Does anyone have or know anyone that has a center console for a 69 =
cutlass with a four speed? Or anything comparable that would fit and =
look ok. The interior is black.  Any suggestions on where I could find =
one would also be appreciated.


Roger=20
69' Cutlass S 350-4-speed
Glandorf,OH

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 06:53:45 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: DON'T REPLY TO DIGESTS! [was Re; 72 Hurst Olds??]

Just to echo Dr. Bob's point, by quoting the entire digest in a reply you
send a 60k message to the whole list which the software cannot handle and
which then bounces back to me.  Plus it causes a huge digest to be created
and sent to all digest members, which is not only annoying but causes full
mailboxes, which then causes those messages to bounce back to me also.

Please, PLEASE be careful replying to digests!

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 07:32:36 -0500
From: Gene Gilpin <ggilpin@wrallp.com>
Subject: M21 or M22 good info (this should clear it up) 

><< Steve Reed   Why do you think that the M21 got the nickname
>"Rockcrusher"??? >>
>
>
>Actually, I believe that was the M-22, and it had to do with how hard it was
>to shift due to it's straiter cut gears....  I could be wrong of course.   I
>do know however that I had a M-20 (wide ratio, good for highway gears) behind
>a worked over LS-6 crate motor in a 66 Chevelle conv.  The car ran low 12s
and
>never had a tranny problem.  I launched with 10 inch slicks.
>
>SeeYa!
>Bill K
>
============================================================================
============================================================================
==============

Let me clear it up for ya.
 The noise that the M22 makes is normal and has to do with the angle at
which the gears mesh. You'll usually hear it in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear (but
not 4th) after you've accelerated and you then release the gas pedal,
letting the engine brake the car. It has almost the same sound in reverse.
The M22 gears have a shallower mesh angle which causes the "whine," and the
sound is the reason for the popular nickname for this transmission, the
"Rockcrusher." The lower angle (I believe its 11 degrees) increases the
load carrying capacity of the gears at the expense of the increased noise.
The reason for absence of the noise in 4th gear is that 4th is a direct
output from the input (1:1 ratio), and there are no significant gears
involved. The M21 has more of an angle cut into the gears and while the
ratio's are identical to the M22 they mesh quieter. 21's have a crusher
like sound but much quieter than the 22's and louder than saginaws.
Saginaws don't make any noise untill they break. Then they sound like they
are going THROUGH a "Rockcrusher".

M21's were factory installed in many many big block high horse GM muscle
cars from 427 Corvettes to RA400 Goats to W30 442s to 454 Chevelles. They
are plenty capable of handling 500+ ft/lb torque and just as much
horsepower. Just make sure your M21 is in good mechanical condition. Like
all mechanical things, get 100,000mi and countless full bore speed (and
missed) shifts on a tranny and it gets worn out. Don't just throw one thats
been used and abused behind your 455 expect the world. Inspect it
thoroughly and if you question it at all rebuild it. At least new bearings
and sychronizers (sp).  


       Series               Gear Ratios      Input Grooves  Cluster   Output
       (Ratio)   Years  1st  2nd  3rd  4th  Spline (Input)    Pin     Spline
     -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Muncie M20, M21, M22
     M20 (Wide)  63-65  2.56 1.91 1.48 1.00   10   None    7/8-inch      27
     M20 (Wide)  66-71  2.52 1.88 1.46 1.00   10    2        1-inch      27
     M21 (Close) 63-71  2.20 1.64 1.28 1.00   10    1        1-inch      27
                                                          and 7/8-inch
     M20 (Wide)  71-74  2.52 1.88 1.46 1.00   26    2        1-inch      32
     M21 (Close) 71-74  2.20 1.64 1.28 1.00   26    1        1-inch      32
     M22 (Close) 65-69  2.20 1.64 1.28 1.00   10   None      1-inch      27

 Saginaw M20
     M20 (6-cyl)        3.11 2.20 1.47 1.00
     M20 (V8)           2.54 1.80 1.44 1.00
==========================================================================

Every thing you ever wanted to know about GM's fourspeeds

Omega Man

'74 Omega S 455

By the way, I'm gonna finally get my pictures of this thing developed and
scan 'em in.
Anybody want to see it??



>>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 06:42:19 -0600
From: "Mike Bloomer" <mbloomer@minspring.com>
Subject: Re: Welding L. Control Arms for Traction

Igor,
While boxing the arms is a good idea, it is definately not a cure-all
solution.  While what you said about flexing is correct, your lack of
traction off the line is a function of suspension design, tire compound,
etc ~not~ control arm flex.  Unless you are leaving two dark black
rubber tracks behind you when the tires are spinning, you are not
loading the rear suspension hard enough to make control arm flex
a limiting factor.  The fact that this guy said to stay with the smaller
tires tells me he is a little "off" since the biggest change you can
make on any car is the tires.  Going as big as possible with your
tires is your best bet, as long as they fit.  Boxing the lower arms
and adding the poly bushings will help control side to side
movement of the rear axle under cornering which will allow you
to mount the largest tires possible.

The other factor here is weight transfer.  Relocating the battery
will help but lowering/stiffening the suspension will do the opposite.
I wouldn't worry about breaking the control arm mounts but the
Hotchkis arms do come with triangulation braces for the lower
arm mounting points.  These mods will help the cornering more
than the launching and won't have any real effect on ride.

Mike Bloomer
mbloomer@mindspring.com
ICQ# 19113713
http://members.tripod.com/CutlassFreak/


>I was talking to this guy today, and he told me that I should pull my
>stamped control arms ('81 Delta 88), particularly lower control arms and
>have a plate put into the hollow bottom and welded for strength.  He told
me
>that when I punch it, the lower control arms flex (makes sense as they look
>cheap for all that power).  With the welded plate on the bottom (some hard
>material), they would not flex and the car would hook up better.  He said
to
>do this, put polyurethane bushings in, put the battery in the trunk and
that
>should do the trick.  Now I have 255/60/15 tires on the car and a posi and
>no traction.  I wanted 15x10s and 295/50/15 tires but he said to go with
>15x8s (much better fit) and keep my 255s.  It makes sense as that would do
>nothing but strengthen the control arms.  Those ones you can buy (not for
my
>car), look similar.
>
>I am concerned about the drivability of the car if I do this.  What would
it
>do for handling/cornering/ride.  I can't really see it do anything
negative.
>Also, on that note, is the part where the control arms mount to the frame
>strong enough.  In this case more stress would be on that part and it could
>brake.
>
>Thanks.  Igor.
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:00:55 -0500
From: "Semantana Chris (ONEX)" <SemantanaC@tce.com>
Subject: RE: Classic Car Insurance

> of them came back with the same price quote.  I went with Hagerty Classic
> Insurance (800-922-4050).  
	<snip of good info>

I've heard pretty much the same thing about Hagerty.  I think there's
another company or two out there that is very similar.  Hagerty is probably
where I'm going to when the time comes for me.  I believe they are on the
web.  Oh I think JC Taylor is another insurance company.

Chris Smetana
Terre Haute, IN
http://www.abcs.com/chris/

1969 W-31
1969 4-4-2 parts car
plus others

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:02:10 -0500
From: "Mark Cornea (R)" <mcornea@ford.com>
Subject: Re: M21 or M22 good info (this should clear it up)

>        Series               Gear Ratios      Input Grooves  Cluster   Output
>        (Ratio)   Years  1st  2nd  3rd  4th  Spline (Input)    Pin     Spline
>      -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Muncie M20, M21, M22
>      M20 (Wide)  63-65  2.56 1.91 1.48 1.00   10   None    7/8-inch      27
>      M20 (Wide)  66-71  2.52 1.88 1.46 1.00   10    2        1-inch      27
>      M21 (Close) 63-71  2.20 1.64 1.28 1.00   10    1        1-inch      27
>                                                           and 7/8-inch
>      M20 (Wide)  71-74  2.52 1.88 1.46 1.00   26    2        1-inch      32
>      M21 (Close) 71-74  2.20 1.64 1.28 1.00   26    1        1-inch      32
>      M22 (Close) 65-69  2.20 1.64 1.28 1.00   10   None      1-inch      27
> 
>  Saginaw M20
>      M20 (6-cyl)        3.11 2.20 1.47 1.00
>      M20 (V8)           2.54 1.80 1.44 1.00
> ==========================================================================

	The M22 (for Olds) was only available for one year, and it was on a '71
W30, and had a 26 spline input shaft. 

 
         ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
               Mark Cornea (Dr. Decal)  OCA# 4903
                             1970 W30 (red)

                      mailto:drdecal@wwnet.net
                      mailto:mcornea@ford.com

                    Visit http://www.drdecal.com
        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:05:20 EST
From: Bbymks4@aol.com
Subject: Re: Year One discounts

                    Hello, i'd like to be added to the year one discount list.
 
                    could you please forward the information so I can be
included.
   
                                               Thank you very much.

                                                 Steve Maggard
                                               14725 173rd Av. S.E.
                                               Renton WA 98059

                  

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:26:45 -0500
From: "Eckart, Douglas A. SFC" <eckartd@emh.gordon.army.mil>
Subject: d heads

I've got a pair in my garage with no valves installed, they've been blasted
to clean the crud off though.
BTW even if all the numbers were ground off the blocked heat passage is a
dead give away on these heads.
v/r

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:42:54 EST
From: Lou0118@aol.com
Subject: Re: Classic Car Insurance

In a message dated 01/27/1999 11:37:52 PM Eastern Standard Time,
mtupper@palacenet.net writes:

<< I think the original post was for an '80 442(?) When I called Hagerty about
 my '87 442 they wouldn't insure it because it was too "new". I don't know
 what the cutoff date is though. >>

I believe you are correct.  I think the vehicle has to be 25 years or older.

Lou Principe
69 442 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:44:49 EST
From: Lou0118@aol.com
Subject: Re: Classic Car Insurance

In a message dated 01/28/1999 12:11:02 AM Eastern Standard Time,
crivier@hotmail.com writes:

<< I have had to do this.  Most require a limited number of miles driven 
 per year and an enclosed garage. >>


Yes, they all asked if it would be in an enclosed garage.  But as far as
mileage make sure you ask each one,  they are all different.

Lou Principe
69 442 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:56:52 -0500 (EST)
From: jhbII <jh2nlla@noblecan.org>
Subject: Re: Need suggestions for a personalized plate ('68 442 conv.) 

       Hi List, My Dad and I have the same name so "our" licence plate reads
JHB'S HO. Thats not are "Ladies" we are talking about either!!!!!We added
the apostaphe with a marker and it looks SWEET as Hell!                In
the state of Indiana, "HO" cannot be used so "69 HO" was out of the
question. In the state of Michigan,"69" can not be used in a personalized
plate so "WE" went with the Michigan plate. The state did call one last time
before the making of the "plate" for an explanation of what "JHBS HO" stood
for! Plate arrived 2 days before Christmas,what a present!
My suggestion,68RGTOP or 442CONV or just 68 442. Hope nobody else has your
plate already after you have made your decision. Happened to us with our 72
conv. GOOD LUCK, Jack

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 07:46:58 PST
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Computer

> On my Delta 88, the computer is not going into diagnostic mode even
> when I short circuit the top right two connection points.

That's weird. (More blinding insights like this one below.  :-)

> It used to do so until last week.  It was telling me that the TPS
> is bad. All I did was to test the TPS using a volt meeter.

Um, what exactly did you do to test it? I'm wondering whether you
might have somehow shot some voltage down the signal wire, such as
trying to do a continuity test on the wiring harness...? If all you
did was unplug the TPS connector and then test for smoothly-changing
resistance across the TPS pins, that would do no harm. And pardon a
dumb question but you did remember to plug it back in afterwards,
right? That being the case, I don't see a problem there.

> After that, the Check Engine light does not go off at all and the
> mileage seems to be getting worse.

I imagine that's true since the ECM is probably in Puke mode right
now, ignoring its sensors because it's getting either whacko data
or none at all. If the Check Engine light is blazing away non-stop,
you've got a current fault of some sort.

As someone else suggested, check the fuses pronto. If they're all
right, I suggest checking the ground connection of the ALDL link,
the top right port of the diagnostic connector. If in doubt, try
grounding the second-from-the-right port anywhere else on the car;
the top right ground is just put there for convenience. The main
thing is to ground that second-from-the-right lead wire, which is
supposed to get the ECM into diagnostic mode.

> Has anyone experienced similar problems with the ECM?

Not with the ECM, but I have had problems with glopped-up connectors
in the ALDL port -- I'd put a jumper in for diagnostics and nothing
would happen. GM started putting dust covers on those things in
later years, which tells me that dirty connectors has been a problem.

- -- Andy

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 07:46:29 -0800
From: "Reed, Stephen" <sreed@chatsworth.com>
Subject: Body work HORROR story + PLEASE Help W/Sheetmetal!

Get a box ok Kleenex for this one 'cuz you're gonna cry (I did),

I had my '70 4-4-2 totally disassembled.  Body supported outside on 4
concrete blocks, with 4 x 4 timbers through the rear wheel well, and one
under the front of the door area.  I was doing a restification.  The floor
pan had been butchered by installing a 4 speed (originally Automatic car),
and there were a few small  8" x 8" patch panels in the floor with a fair
amount of surface rust.  While in college I met a guy who's DAD did body
work, and darn good work at that (He brought me to his Dad's shop and showed
me around).  He offered to help me put in my full length Year One floor pans
( P/N: BN146LHRH) & Supports.  P/N's: G689 & G690)
	While I was in the garage completing the engine rebuild/rolling
chassis assembly, he was doing the body work.  He removed the old pans with
a cutting torch.  The only original material left is the center hump, which
is about 5" across.  He then just placed the new ones in without any
modifications/trimming of the old material. The driver's side is lower than
the passenger's side so the reinforcing bracket (Which goes to the body to
frame hold down bolts) had to be ~tweaked~ to make a somewhat close fit.
The left side does not even line up with the body mount bolt, so I am
currently one bolt shy of a complete hold down.

This is the WHOLE reason my 4-4-2 is NOT on the road right now!  

I NEED to find a reputable Sheet metal vendor somewhere that will sell me a
full length floor pan.  From Firewall to the hump in the floor of the rear
seats.

PLEASE, PLEASE SOMEONE help me out with a good vendor/source for these
parts.  I BEG of you for assistance, as this is the next step in my
restification, and I'm getting a good amount of $$ saved in the bank.

Steve Reed
'70 4-4-2 'Ragtop
Austin, TX

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:05:27 PST
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Window noise

> The hardest part is popping the hidden clips (there's a special
> tool available at most auto parts stores for cheap) that hold on the
> window crank and door handle.  If it's only the driver's door that
> is loose, you can pull both the door panels and compare the two to
> easily find out what's worn out.

This is a little off-topic, but if you're doing to open up your doors
for some reason, save yourself and your door panels a world of hurt
and buy two special tools first:

1) The GM window crank removal tool mentioned above: A simple piece
of stamped metal in a spade shape that slides the retainer clip off
the handle in a jiffy.

2) A door panel removal tool: Looks like an oversized screwdriver
with an angled, forked tip that gets under the flared shoulder of
the panel retainer clips so you can pop them out of the door,
instead of pulling on the panel with bare hands until the heads of
the retainer clips tear out of the cardboard backing, a Bad Thing.

These tools will pay for themselves (< $10) the first time you get
an expensive old door panel off in one piece without damaging the
pin mounts. And when you find that the previous owner(s) have
already ripped out three or four pins in the past, you realize 
that you need to preserve every one of the survivors.  :-)

- -- Andy

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------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #1739
*********************************

