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oldsmobile-digest      Tuesday, January 5 1999      Volume 01 : Number 1702



RE: Donor bodies - long
Re: MSD and factory tachs
RE: Donor bodies - long
Re: Dual Exhaust
RE: Donor bodies - long
RE: Donor bodies - long
Olds Mailing List Archive 1600 now available
Re: Dual Exhaust
Re: How-to identify tranny?
Re: How-to identify tranny?
Re: Donor bodies - long
conv.. top weather seal
Re: Dual Exhaust
Re: 72 post cars
Re: Donor bodies - long
Problem with front suspension rebuild
Re: Donor bodies - long(not anymore...to the point)
Re: Dual Exhaust
Re: Donor bodies - long
RE: Donor bodies - long
RE: Donor bodies - long
Re: Donor bodies - long(not anymore...to the point)
Re: Donor bodies - long
Re: 72 post cars
Re: Donor bodies - long
Re: Donor bodies - long
Re: Problem with front suspension rebuild
Re: Donor bodies - long(not anymore...to the point)
documentation (was Doner Bodies)
Re: Donor bodies - not too long
Re: MSD and factory tachs
Re: Donor bodies - not too long
Re: Comp Cams - Olds Muscle Car Cams
Re: Dual exhaust
Funny noises (was Re: Comp Cams - Olds Muscle Car Cams
Re: Donor bodies - not too long
Re: Comp Cams - Olds Muscle Car Cams
Re: Funny noises (was Re: Comp Cams - Olds Muscle Car Cams
seat fabric
Re: Donor bodies - not too long
EXHAUST LEAK ?????
re-subscribe
Re: seat fabric
Re: Funny noises (was Re: Comp Cams - Olds Muscle 
Re: Dual Exhaust
Re: FS: 68-75+ Olds Parts
Re: FS: 68-75+ Olds Parts
Re: 69 parts for sale
MSD's and Tach's (Was Re: Cats and tachs)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:17:32 -0500 
From: "Semantana Chris (ONEX)" <SemantanaC@tce.com>
Subject: RE: Donor bodies - long

> I"ve considered something similar on my 68 442.  I'd keep the existing
> body, but swap in a modified frame.
> 
> If I could find a donor car with straight frame, yank everything, strip,
> reinforce, and paint the donor frame while keeping mine original.  I
> could have whatever rear axle, four wheel disc brakes, or anything else
> I want, and be able to go back original in the future.
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
Interesting thought.  If you want to do it, you could find a vehicle in a
junkyard, assuming the frame is straight and go that route.  Granted the
frame is probably rusted heavily, but if you're gonna strip, reinforce, etc,
what difference would it make what shape the frame is in as long as it's
straight.
Just a thought .. if you're gonna go that route, you ~might as well~
(there's that word Joe :) find a stripped rolling shell and build exactly
what you want, so your 4-4-2 doesn't get 'hacked up'

Chris Smetana
Terre Haute, IN
http://www.abcs.com/chris

1969 W-31
1969 4-4-2 parts car
plus others

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 13:33:05 -0500
From: Gene Gilpin <ggilpin@wrallp.com>
Subject: Re: MSD and factory tachs

How is your MSD box hooked up. There are different methods for different
applications. I have a MSD 6A and I'm using the magnetic pickup that
elimiates the 4 pin HEI module and condenser. The white power wire is not
used. My tach works just fine using the port on the box. Maybe these tach
problems are being caused by improper installation or ???
Ed
The omega man






At 01:14 PM 1/5/99 EST, you wrote:
>i was curius about the problem with the MSD ignition and tachometers.  i have
>my factory tach hooked up on the distributor (HEI) just like it came from the
>factory and it seems to be working the same as before i put on my MSD.  i
know
>there is a place on the ignition box to hook up a tach, and im guessing thats
>what you guys are talking about.  from what im hearing, if i hooked up my
tach
>directly to the ignition box it would go crazy. however, i didnt use that, i
>just did it like factory and it seems fine.  
>jeremy
>BIGJERMES@aol.com
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:34:38 -0600 (CST)
From: blue442@webtv.net
Subject: RE: Donor bodies - long

Hacked up!?  NO!!-I love my 442.  I was just considering this to keep
from hacking it up.  Is this not a bolt on type operation?  I figure any
68-72 A-body frame would work.  Maybe I could use a convertible frame.
This car will see hard corners and high 12/ low 13 second 1/4 mile et's. 

Jeff Carter
blue442@webtv.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:40:47 EST
From: Sx455@aol.com
Subject: Re: Dual Exhaust

In a message dated 1/4/99 6:16:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, kerryk@CWIX.com
writes:

<< their reasoning is that if the car came with one it must retain at least
one
 no less than that they really dont care if you put on another one there has
 never been a stipulation on that trust me used to do the inspections on such
 things the fact that the gasses dont remain in the same volume thus the same
 contact with the filler is not yet an issu >>
the FEDERAL law is you cant alter the exhaust from the factory converter(s)
forward. if you add headers ,new high flow y-pipe ,converters etc the
installed parts must have a 	CARB\EPA approval. this includes running 
dual
cats \dual exhaust:: if the vehicle didnt come with duals\dual cats it is
illegal to add such,period. not to say people dont do it ,that is the
hotrodders perogative. although all states are not as strict on inspections as
some,this is still a FEDERAL law . you can run any type of exhaust behind the
converters as long as you dont alter the factory stuff up front. as this
garbage is just another way "big brother" looks out for us with laws! 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:42:06 -0500
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: RE: Donor bodies - long

Just a thought .. if you're gonna go that route, you ~might as well~
(there's that word Joe :) ...
__________

Yep, you MIGHTASWELL just open your wallet...  ;-)

==============

...find a stripped rolling shell and build exactly
what you want, so your 4-4-2 doesn't get 'hacked up'
__________

Absolutely!  I know it always appears easier to start with what you have,
but I've always wondered why people do crazy things like cut up an original
muscle car and go the Pro Street route (for example) when it would probably
be easier (and likely cheaper) to get a clean base model of the same car,
make all your mods, and add the emblems.  It's not like you care that the
car has a 442 VIN, for example, if you plan to make drastic modifications.
Simply start with a straight AZ Cutlass shell, make all the mods, and add
the 442 grilles and emblems.  Then the real 442 is unmolested and can be
restored at a later date.

Note that I'm not one of the "original air in the tires" type of people,
and I'll certainly be doing my share of mods to my 442s (though all will be
reversible and I'll keep the original parts), but if one has a nice 442 (or
GTO, or GS, or...), rather than cut it up, just start with a less
desireable donor.  Of course, the latest trend in Hot Rod is the "anyone
can restore a car but it takes a real man to cut one up..." train of
thought, usually when applied to a 55 Vette or 57 T-bird.

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:51:22 -0500 
From: "Semantana Chris (ONEX)" <SemantanaC@tce.com>
Subject: RE: Donor bodies - long

> Hacked up!?  NO!!-I love my 442.  I was just considering this to keep
> from hacking it up.  Is this not a bolt on type operation?  I figure any
> 68-72 A-body frame would work.  Maybe I could use a convertible frame.
> This car will see hard corners and high 12/ low 13 second 1/4 mile et's. 
> 
That's kinda what I meant.  Find a second vehicle to turn into exactly what
you'd want so as to not harm your 4-4-2.  Yes swapping bodies is a 'bolt-on'
type conversion, but a fairly extensive one at that.  And yes any 2dr 68-72
A-body frame should work.  Basically, find a 68 rolling shell; supreme, S,
whatever, obviously the more complete the better, then turn it into your
version of your current 4-4-2.  Swap buckets in place of the bench if thats
what you want, run a wild 455 instead of a 400 or 350 depending on what the
donor vehicle has, if you want a 4sp go for it, if you want a vinyl top go
for it, all the while your original 4-4-2 is fine.  Not to mention you can
still enjoy the car while the other one is under construction.  This is
kinda why I'm looking for a 70-72 S.  I'm gonna make a street strip vehicle
out of it, but I don't intend on cutting the car up.  It will be part
Cutlass S, part 4-4-2, part Chris, all the while still retaining it's basic
Cutlass appearance or maybe I'll put 4-4-2 badges on it, but I need to find
a vehicle first.  Actually I need to rebuild my W-31 motor, work on my
getting my GTO back together, THEN buying a street/strip toy. (Opinion/wish
mode off)

Chris Smetana
Terre Haute, IN
http://www.abcs.com/chris

1969 W-31
1969 4-4-2 parts car
plus others

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:54:29 -0600
From: "Easton,Jeffrey" <jeff.easton@abbott.com>
Subject: Olds Mailing List Archive 1600 now available

The Archive for the Olds Mailing List, Digests #1600 thru #1699 is now
available on my web site.  http:\\www.calcon.net\~easton


- -Jeff
Jeff Easton
Grayslake, ILL
1970  442  4-Speed
see the Olds archives at http:\\www.calcon.net\~easton

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 14:00:36 -0500
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: Dual Exhaust

>>My opinion is that single exhaust is a system consisting of only one
muffler.
>>I.E. Camaro. Dual exhaust consists of two mufflers. I've never seen a
dual cat
>>set up. always single cat to one or two mufflers.
>>

 and

><< Doesn't Corvette exhaust come off the motor as 2 go into one converter and
> continue to the back as dua >>
>
>     IMO opinion, it's single exhaust. I know there is more to it than just
>two pipes, like flow, backpressure, and all, but what is the point of going
>through all the work to make two pipes, EXCEPT in one spot? A pipe can only
>flow at the rate its smallest constriction allows. Dual 2" into a 3" cat is
>restrictive. Whats the point, besides saving the manufacturer $50 a copy?
(and
>LOOKING cool) Dorian

Well, a single 3" is less restrictive than two 2" pipes, pie are squared
and all that. But that's beside the point... (and I'm sure the 4" chrome
exhaust tip bolted to the end of the exhaust of the otherwise-stock Honda
Civic a student has here is even less restrictive still... ;)

Lots of "dual-outlet" exhausts come together at some point in the system,
whether it be in the pipe and converter, or like my '69 Toro (and early
F-bodies) in the muffler.

For the sake of accuracy, I'd have to say that a true-dual exhaust has
separate pipes all the way, and any common item used by both sets of pipes,
like the converter or muffler, has two separate inlet and two separate
outlets for those pipes to connect to. This disqualifies many '68-'70
Toronados, then, which have two separate pipes all the way back past the
rear axle to the single muffler, but then only have one outlet pipe on that
muffler.

Anything else, then, where there is a single pipe or a single inlet or
outlet, is a single exhaust; if it has two mufflers after the common cat,
or two outlets from a muffler with one inlet, then it is properly called a
"dual-outlet" exhaust, in distinction to a "true-dual" exhaust.

That's for the terminology; for actual performance, a properly-designed
single exhaust can easily outperform a dual-exhaust system in just about
all areas (ever note how many mufflers there are on those superbikes?),
except perhaps in sound where you lose that "stereo" effect from behind... :)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:06:43 -0600 
From: Martin Thomas-WLTM07 <Thomas_Martin-WLTM07@css.mot.com>
Subject: Re: How-to identify tranny?

Be weary, it still could be a THM250, which is supposedly nearly identical
to a THM350, but less power.  Never knowingly seen one!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:10:17 -0600 
From: Martin Thomas-WLTM07 <Thomas_Martin-WLTM07@css.mot.com>
Subject: Re: How-to identify tranny?

I have a dual bolt pattern THM350 (not C) in my 80 Turbo Trans AM.  It is
not drilled for the Ch$vy pattern, but it can be, the bosses are there.
Mine is a special one for the Turbo V8, it has hard shifts, and had (even
before the shift kit) layed rubber down going from 2-3 at 90 mph!.  And
quite regularly 1-2 shift.  I like it!  It has also survived quite well
behind my 400 hp 455 Pontiac.

Thomas Martin
80 Turbo Trans AM
85 Cutlass Supreme Rocket 350 CCC
91 Bonneville LE 3800

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 12:11:13 -0700
From: Cliff Simpson <csimpson@ucalgary.ca>
Subject: Re: Donor bodies - long

I swapped the body from a Cutlass S onto my 442.  I always reasoned that since
the 442 was different from the S because of other things (engine, suspension,
bumpers, grills, interior, etc.) and the bodies were the same that swapping the
bodies while keeping all the 442 specific stuff was "legit".

As far as I know only the VIN and body tag separates a 442 body from a Cutlass
S body (am I missing something?).  People will replace rims, hoods, doors,
front bumpers, mirrors, etc. with ones from a different model does that make
the car a bastard?

Anyway, I always felt that I saved a 442 from the wreckers by replacing a
single, albeit large, chunk of metal with the same piece from a different car. 
No "new" 442 was created since the VIN and body tag were transferred and the
old body trashed.  It has the 442 frame, suspension, steering system, braking
system, engine, tranny, differential, grills, trunk lid, fenders, hood,
interior, glass, chrome, wheels, etc. 

Just my opinion.

- -- 
Cliff Simpson
csimpson@ucalgary.ca
'69 442/400/th400/3.31p (Kermit) (soon to be a 455 :)
http://www.ucalgary.ca/~csimpson

PS: this question has been debated for millennium by philosophers.  A man
brings his ship into harbor and spends a year replacing every single part of it
with a new part.  Does he have a different ship at the end of the year?  If yes
then on what day did it become a different ship?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:19:12 EST
From: JonKrisInc@aol.com
Subject: conv.. top weather seal

Anyone know who makes the best weatherseal for the top rails of a 75 Delta 88.
I think there are about five pieces in all.
Tia
Bruce
75 Delta 88 conv. (duals of course)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:25:16 -0600 
From: Martin Thomas-WLTM07 <Thomas_Martin-WLTM07@css.mot.com>
Subject: Re: Dual Exhaust

On the Ford idea of using dual converters, remember it is not the same
converters as GM.  The converters are a 2 way or 3 way, (the 3 way is
addition of air to the second bed).  

Ford separated the cat converter so the preconverter is upstream of the main
converter, which finishes the job.  GM keeps them contained in one.  This is
probably due to performance, converter performance.  I would speculate that
separate they perform better, but the second can cool, but in one package,
you are cheaper.  So it would take lot of hours of testing to determine
which is better.  GM has reasons, maybe they separate converters have
something that fails a GM test and that is why they do not use, but Ford
does not test that way.  Who knows???

It is not 4 converters, just 2, but they are separated units.  The AIR
injection to the second bed (Anyone remember the materials?  Palladium,
Iridium??) so stimulate better conversion.  

The CC is supposed to take the HC, CO and convert it to H2O, and CO2, which
are less harmful to the environment.  If you can think of it that way, make
your car more efficient and still run 11's, do it!  Braggin rights to the
first Olds powered car who can!

Thomas Martin
80 Turbo Trans AM
85 Cutlass Supreme Rocket 350 CCC
91 Bonneville LE 3800

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:27:23 EST
From: TheBlue67@aol.com
Subject: Re: 72 post cars

ok im not quite sure on this....... did you guys say that 70-72 post cars had
the wing window??? im not sure if i just misunderstood something but i dont
believe this is true. my dad owned a 70 rallye 350 post car and it did not
have a wing window in it. again i may have misunderstood something but im not
sure that 70-72 post cars had the wing windows. anyone care to clear this up
for me????

Thanks
Brent
1967 Cutlass Convertible

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 14:29:08 -0500
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: Donor bodies - long

>I'm planning on the same thing.  For example, my 69 W-31 is fairly rusty in
>the rear section of the car and I have an AZ 69 4-4-2 body.  Several people
>have asked why I don't just swap everything over to the 4-4-2 shell.  Well,
 [snip]
>it matches the title and everything is kosher.  But what title and car would
>the officer be checking, the car is a W-31, but, for the sake of this
>example, I've swapped everything onto the 4-4-2 body.  Is the car now a
>4-4-2?  Or a Cutlass S with the W-31 option?  Or one of those 1 of none
>4-4-2 W-31s we've occasionally seen at shows?  I also know several people
>(not personally) in the car hobby who in general swap vins and data plates
>between cars (most notably 65 LeMans becoming a GTO).  So lets say I also

Well, there's a couple things here. Swapping just the VIN plate is a
definite no-no, and constitutes outright fraud. 

What you're talking about is body-panel replacement, in fact, the
replacement of the entire body-shell. Now, if you're taking the shell off
that 442, and swapping it onto the W-31's original frame, installing the
original, numbers-matching W-31 drivetrain, then you've got a different
scenario.

* Would it be better to cut the good quarters off the good 442 shell, and
weld them onto your formerly-rusty W-31 shell? How are the W-31's floors
and trunk? If you replace them as well, and maybe the rockers, then
essentially all you're saving from the "S"'s orginal shell is the cowl and
the roof.

>did this, so now in essence I've taken a 4-4-2 and swapped all of the
>Cutlass S W-31 parts, pieces, vin and data plate onto it and I know have a
>'new' car.  Do I still have my all numbers matching W-31?  Or is it just a
>W-31 with the original motor?  I'm just wondering what some viewpoints on
>this are?  I mean lets say a person decides its better to find a donor 72
>cutlass convert body for his 70 pace car convert then to fix the severely
>rotted quarter and trunk floors.  What year car does he have now?  Also,
>what happens if he decides it's time to sell?

I'd say that swapping EITHER a frame OR a body shell, keeping the rest of
the numbers-matching pieces intact, is not necessarily (though it can be)
fraud. Of course, if the car was ever sold in the future, the extent of the
parts-replacement must be made known (and documented with pictures, if
possible). After all, someone wouldn't be buying a solid, rust-free
original W-31, and its value would be lessened accordingly.

>My own personal opinion is that ANY vin swapping or data plate swapping is
>fraud and I want no part of it.  

There are degrees to this, though. What if a lifted Ch*vy pickup hit your
Cutlass right where the driver's door, fender and windshield post meet?
Could you cut out that damaged part of the cowl and windshield post, and
weld in a replacement? If you did, would you have to retain the VIN plate
from the donor car, or would it be acceptable to remove that VIN from the
"repair piece" and "swap" in the original VIN for that car? What if the
whole rest of the car is damaged in a rollover, and that part of the cowl
is intact; could you cut that part of the cowl from the damaged shell, and
transfer it to a good shell (like the one from your 442)? Just what part of
the cowl would have to remain sacrosanct and untouchable? I don't know if
unriveting and re-riveting a VIN-tag is the deal-breaker on this question.

>I also have a 66 GTO which is now a rolling shell and I've had many people
>calling asking if I would sell the 'tags' from the car, which I haven't by
>the way, as they want to 'make' a GTO either out of their wrecked GTO but
>with the more desirable options that came on mine or their Tempest or
>something, I don't know.

What they're looking to do is an obvious bad-thing; they intend to make a
car a GTO through a tag. Your intent is to repair the body-damage to your
Cutlass; in that case, how much of the original shell would have to remain
intact for you not to be swapping VINs?

and then Tony added:

>off spot on the tranny and engine block that had VIN's on them too.  Since
>then I have poked around on different cars and have found VIN's everywhere.
>So after 1968 models it would be difficult to change just the cowl tag and
>VIN plate and not be caught.  I found the VIN number on the drivers side
>frame rail on my 70 W-30 Sports Coupe just under the door. Ir was also
>stamped on the firewall behind the heater air box. Interesting.......

If Chris swapped just the shell and re-riveted the original VIN to that,
then the VIN on the frame would match the one on the dash, the motor and
the tranny. OTOH, if he riveted it to the 442 shell on *its* original
frame, and switched the engine and tranny over as well, then there'd be
more problems, as you're not talking about parts-replacement, but car
replacement.

and then someone else added:

>I"ve considered something similar on my 68 442.  I'd keep the existing
>body, but swap in a modified frame.
>If I could find a donor car with straight frame, yank everything, strip,
>reinforce, and paint the donor frame while keeping mine original.  I
>could have whatever rear axle, four wheel disc brakes, or anything else
>I want, and be able to go back original in the future.

I've been thinking of this same route for my SX: Build up and detail a
boxed frame from a convertible car with all the good suspension pieces,
bolt in the SX's original 455 with another transmission (original tranny is
long-gone), and then unbolt its original shell from its current
somewhat-rusty frame and bolt it onto the detailed frame, as a kind of
time-saving frame-off procedure. Would it be the same car? I'd argue so.
Would I be committing fraud? In the unlikely event I ever sold the car, I'd
be proud to show the pictures documenting the amount of work I put into
rebuilding the car, for those folks who wouldn't recognize that Supremes
never came with convertible frames, so I don't think I'd be committing fraud.

These are just my thoughts on the matter; I'm open to other ideas about the
legitimacy of parts and shell-swapping. Things have to be considered
differently, though, for those of us trying to keep 30-year old cars safe
and good-looking, vs. those who are trying to profit off deception, either
in falsifying a model or making $$$ off a chop-shop operation.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:28:48 -0600
From: "Darrin Johnson" <xdarrinj@ti.com>
Subject: Problem with front suspension rebuild

I am starting the process of rebuilding the front suspension on my 72
Cutlass.  The upper control arm attaching bolts are supposed to be somewhat
of a press fit into the frame brackets.  It looks like a previous owner
somehow enlarged the bolt holes enough that the bolts are pretty loose.
Does anyone
have any ideas on how to fix this?  I can see an alignment being a problem
since I can only tighten the nut by disconnecting the spindle and raising
the control arm enough to hold the bolt head with a wrench.  Are there any
other problems that I might expect?  Am I going to have to get new frame
brackets welded on?

Darrin Johnson
djohnsn@ibm.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:44:55 EST
From: GT5726@aol.com
Subject: Re: Donor bodies - long(not anymore...to the point)

In a message dated 1/5/99 9:54:56 AM Central Standard Time, SemantanaC@tce.com
writes:

<<   So lets say I also
 did this, so now in essence I've taken a 4-4-2 and swapped all of the
 Cutlass S W-31 parts, pieces, vin and data plate onto it and I know have a
 'new' car.  Do I still have my all numbers matching W-31?  Or is it just a
 W-31 with the original motor? >>
 
    I only want to add to this my opinion. The vin "tags" are ALL that is
valuble about desireable Muscle cars. If you are going to argue that swapping
body shells is fruadulent, then you have to add that anything changed on the
car is also fraudulent.
Cars are not ment to last forever. That is why restorations are so popular.
During a restoration many parts that are not up to standard, are repaired or
replaced. You, as the person owning or restoring the car, have to decide which
parts make "the" car. On many cars, the "core" is the same(i.e ...the shell) ,
the only difference being the vin tag. There is nothing different about the
body of my two 65's( except, of course the cosmetic "add-ons"). Just the same,
there is nothing different about the glass, mouldings, etc.etc.
...anyway...I'm rambling on. The only way a car is a "real" W-30 (or Boss 429,
or Yenko Chevelle, or what ever), is if it is TOTALLY ORIGINAL. Otherwise, it
is a nice W-30 with sparkplugs from PepBoy's, Oil from Cheifs, Seat Covers
from Year One, etc.etc. 

Collyn Eastham
65 442
65 Cutlass

P.S. Sorry for the emotional button...my wife is a early Mustang Gold card
judge, and we have discussions about this topic weekly ( or so it seems..haha)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:14:37 EST
From: Mikeytvb@aol.com
Subject: Re: Dual Exhaust

corvettes use a factory high flow converter

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:29:50 -0600
From: steven@purplemonkey.com (Steven Saraceno)
Subject: Re: Donor bodies - long

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE38B7.DE039560
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I once read an article about this, I think this summer.  It was =
describing what makes an authentic restoration authentic.  They sighted =
a Duesenburg frame that was found half buried in the back of an estate.  =
By the tag number on the frame they determined it to be very rare (1 of =
2 or 3 cars).  Rebuilt it with a shell from another car and reproduction =
parts and it sold in the six figures.  It's kind of like your great =
grandpa's ax.  Your grandfather replaced the handle and your dad =
replaced the head but you still call it your great grandpa's ax.  I know =
I would prefer to have a complete documented number matching car - mines =
not documented and I'm pretty sure my cowl tag has been swapped (noticed =
the glue under the rivets after I bought it) but the vin, engine, trans =
and frame #s all match.  What about trannies, it was pretty common to =
swap rebuilt trans instead of rebuilding the number matching one.  I =
wonder how many cars have the original trans? I also would suggest =
taking the 442 body and putting it on the W-31 frame instead of the =
other way.  Heck back in 70 I could have bought any of the options over =
the counter to put on a 70 and the dealer did that a lot as well.  I =
have heard many times of Dealers taking the front end and rear wing off =
the Super Birds just to get them off the lot.

Steven
Undocumented but numbers matching 1970 W-30 convertible

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- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE38B7.DE039560--

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:45:42 -0500 
From: "Semantana Chris (ONEX)" <SemantanaC@tce.com>
Subject: RE: Donor bodies - long

> What you're talking about is body-panel replacement, in fact, the
> replacement of the entire body-shell. Now, if you're taking the shell off
> 
> * Would it be better to cut the good quarters off the good 442 shell, and
> weld them onto your formerly-rusty W-31 shell? How are the W-31's floors
> and trunk? If you replace them as well, and maybe the rockers, then
> essentially all you're saving from the "S"'s orginal shell is the cowl and
> the roof.
> 
That's what I'm planning on doing.  I thought I put this in the bottom part
of the post, maybe I/you/we missed it.  I'll be cutting off the rear qtrs
and trunk floor.  The floor pans are surprisingly fairly solid, also there
is a dent in the rocker under the passenger door.  Actually the doors should
probably be replaced also, but the main portion of work will involve the
rear quarters and trunk floor.

> fraud. Of course, if the car was ever sold in the future, the extent of
> the
> parts-replacement must be made known (and documented with pictures, if
> possible). After all, someone wouldn't be buying a solid, rust-free
> original W-31, and its value would be lessened accordingly.
100% agree

> What they're looking to do is an obvious bad-thing; they intend to make a
> car a GTO through a tag. Your intent is to repair the body-damage to your
> Cutlass; in that case, how much of the original shell would have to remain
> intact for you not to be swapping VINs?
bingo!  although it's both body damage and rust damage on the Cutlass.
That's a good point.  What % of a car would have to remain for it to still
be considered 'an original numbers matching car'?  Of course the phrase
'numbers matching car' means different things to different people.

> more problems, as you're not talking about parts-replacement, but car
> replacement.
That's what I'm wondering, what is the fine line between these 2?


Good to see you, err read you again Dr. Bob.

Chris Smetana
Terre Haute, IN
http://www.abcs.com/chris

1969 W-31
1969 4-4-2 parts car
plus others

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:52:02 -0500 
From: "Semantana Chris (ONEX)" <SemantanaC@tce.com>
Subject: RE: Donor bodies - long

> matching one.  I wonder how many cars have the original trans? I also
> would suggest taking the 442 body and putting it on the W-31 frame instead
> of the 
Another reason why I don't plan on doing this, the 4-4-2 shell has been in a
previous accident and the passenger floorpans have been replaced.  They
didn't do a great job, but it's miles better than other accident repairs
I've seen.  Also, the passenger rocker isn't there and the decklid hinge
panel was cut out and sold before I bought it.  The W-31, from what I can
tell, has never been in an accident.  These little tidbits may sway some
opinions, but I wanted to get opinions in the general sense, not just in my
individual case, although I'm always open to suggestions.

Chris Smetana
Terre Haute, IN
http://www.abcs.com/chris

1969 W-31
1969 4-4-2 parts car
plus others

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 15:50:53 -0500
From: David L Wyatt <WYATT_DAVID_L@LILLY.COM>
Subject: Re: Donor bodies - long(not anymore...to the point)

In Chris' case, doing a body swap in Indiana would leave you with a title for
a salvaged or home built vehicle, ala street rod.  A new title and vin would
be issued.  Now this is assuming you were truthful with the DMV.  I personally
know of a car that has been re-bodied using a donor shell with the tags and
chassis from the original Indiana car.
According to the police this is the same as stealing a car and swapping vin
numbers, they see it as no different.  If the owner had replaced all that was
bad on the original body he would have only used the roof and firewall from
the original car BTW.  This car is numbers matching and the present owner is
the second one.  I see nothing wrong in this case.  The car was not built to
be fraudulent and it would be no different than going to the local dealer and
purchasing a replacement shell from the parts department as has been done for
various damages over the years on other vehicles.  The sticky part comes with
vin numbers stamped in the "hidden" locations throughout a vehicle.  It all
has to match to be correct.

Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:04:20 -0500
From: "Robert Collins" <collins@peterboro.net>
Subject: Re: Donor bodies - long

Here is the scenario, you buy a parts car, you take the frame and replace
your rotting frame during restoration.  After restoration it is discovered
that the frame is from a stolen vehicle.  Where would you stand in the eyes
of the law?  Any lawyers on the list that could offer an opinion? 

Robert Collins
collins@peterboro.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 12:43:42 -0800
From: Greg Rollin <supercars@transport.com>
Subject: Re: 72 post cars

TheBlue67@aol.com wrote:
> 
> ok im not quite sure on this....... did you guys say that 70-72 post cars had
> the wing window??? im not sure if i just misunderstood something but i dont
> believe this is true. my dad owned a 70 rallye 350 post car and it did not
> have a wing window in it. again i may have misunderstood something but im not
> sure that 70-72 post cars had the wing windows. anyone care to clear this up
> for me????
> 
> Thanks
> Brent
> 1967 Cutlass Convertible



Ok, now that I've got that egg stuff off me (about
1971 Sport Coupes), the answer is yes.  All 1970-
1972 Sport Coupes (or "post") two doors do in fact
have the vent vindow.  In the case of your fathers
Rallye 350, for it not to have had a vent window,
it would have to have been a Holiday Coupe.   

 
Greg Rollin
Supercars Unlimited (Where Cutlass/4-4-2 is ALL we do!) 
Portland, Oregon  503-244-8249

Web site:
http://www.supercarsunlimited.com

E-mail: supercars@transport.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:04:40 -0600
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: Re: Donor bodies - long

Chris, 
Back when I was with Chrysler we had a car with a Dup. VIN #, don't know
what happened but the same VIN tag was on two autos, one had been sold (by
another dealer). Was a big deal, Chrysler Regional Sales, and Reg. Service
Managers were on hand, guy from the state DMV, had a mechanic drill out the
plate, new one went in with exploding rivets, hit them with a center punch,
bang. plus there were #s all over the car, rad. support, under rubber seal
for deck lid, and many underneath.
Looked like a CIA operation, wouldn't let me see where all the #s were that
they were changing. 
Top secret, go figure.
Lou
- ----------
> From: Semantana Chris (ONEX) <SemantanaC@tce.com>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:11:41 EST
From: Onebil2mny@aol.com
Subject: Re: Donor bodies - long

In a message dated 1/5/1999 10:55:00 AM Eastern Standard Time,
SemantanaC@tce.com writes:

<< My own personal opinion is that ANY vin swapping or data plate swapping is
 fraud and I want no part of it.  >>


but what if you were to replace the dash in your car with one from a different
car.  The Vin is on the dash.

Besides, isn't swapping boddies just replacing all the sheet metal?  If you
did it properly, retaining the original frame and swapping ALL the stuff that
made the original car unique......  I'm not sure I see a problem.


Bill K

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:16:04 EST
From: Onebil2mny@aol.com
Subject: Re: Problem with front suspension rebuild

In a message dated 1/5/1999 2:34:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, xdarrinj@ti.com
writes:

<< Does anyone  have any ideas on how to fix this?  >>

you could always weld the bolts in place.  I wouldn't go crazy with this
(might have to replace them one day) but I don't see why you couldn't put a
couple 1/4 inch welds along the edge of the bole (under the A-Arm)

Bill K

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:18:11 EST
From: Onebil2mny@aol.com
Subject: Re: Donor bodies - long(not anymore...to the point)

In a message dated 1/5/1999 3:55:21 PM Eastern Standard Time,
WYATT_DAVID_L@LILLY.COM writes:

<< The sticky part comes with
 vin numbers stamped in the "hidden" locations throughout a vehicle.  It all
 has to match to be correct.
  >>


but if you wer to cut, say hlaf the car from a donor, wouldn't you transfer
those hidden numbers?  Body shops use used parts quite a lot, including very
large portions.

Bill K

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:37:22 -0500
From: tonwald@eta.k12.mn.us (Tony Waldner)
Subject: documentation (was Doner Bodies)

.  I know I would prefer to have a complete documented number matching car
- - mines not documented and I'm pretty sure my cowl tag has been swapped
(noticed the glue under the rivets after I bought it) but the vin, engine,
trans and frame #s all match.  W
>
>Steven
>Undocumented but numbers matching 1970 W-30 convertible
>


Stephen --

how does one go about getting documentation on a Olds that came with none.
My W-30 Sports Coupe has been in the family since day one so I have the
window sticker, dealer prep sheet, Thank-You letter from Olds,
Protect-o-Plate and all of that jazz, but I bought my W-30 convertible with
no such paperwork.

Both cars have number matching drivetrains and such but I think the cowl
tag on my convertible (Just like yours) has been messed with. It looks
intact and everyhing pans out to a lansing built 442 convert but there is
NO paint code!  I have a feeling that someone ground the paint code off to
change the color of the car.  I bought the car from a friend of mine, so I
know the car's history from 1984 to present.  Before 1984 who knows?

Another friend of mine has a 1970 GTO convertible that he got documentation
on from Pontiac.  He just sent in his VIN # and 35 bucks to the Pontiac
history center and got back loads of info on his car including the dealer
who sold it, a copy of a build sheet for his car and other stuff.  Is this
stuff available from Olds?  It would be great to know what color my bright
red convert was originally!

Tony

70 442 W-30 Sports Coupe
70 442 W-30 convert
70 Toro GT W-34
65 Jetstar 88 w/4-speed
84 Hurst/Olds
85 Cutlass Salon 455 Drag Racer
92 Seville STS

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 16:35:13 -0500
From: "Mike Rothe." <hurstolds@xtalwind.net>
Subject: Re: Donor bodies - not too long

> > as you're not talking about parts-replacement, but car
> > replacement.
> That's what I'm wondering, what is the fine line between these 2?

The basis of this isn't simple.  You'll get as many sides to this as the
abortion issues.  The "letter of the law" on matching numbers is that
all the numbers i.e. VIN, body plate, Trans, engine block,
FRAME,(remember this one too) etc. match.  Technically, the law wouldn't
be able to see the fact that you have transported the numbers to another
car body.  Heck, you could swap them and what official would even know? 
Or even care?  Consider this: once the numbers are removed from a car,
you technically have to get a "new" VIN issued by the state to
re-register it.  This law varies from state to state, but holds true in
most cases.  

This is a case of "beliefs".  Some believe that once you take the
numbers off one car and put them on another, you have just devalued the
car.  Others don't seem to mind.  My own beliefs consider the fact that
the car's history was made with the basic body shell it was built upon. 
Replace all the quarters, fenders doors and windows you like, but the
cowl area is the heart of the historical car.  They even tagged the body
as well as its "pedigree".

While I don't condone rampant number swapping for fun or illegal profit,
in THIS particular case, I am not opposed to the reasoning behind doing
such a swap.  But if it is indeed illegal, then I can't condone it, but
niether will I condemn.  The owner simply wants to SAVE the W-31.  As
long as it is never sold, who cares?  I commend anyone trying to save
the car.  But again, what makes it a car?  If I sold someone ONLY the
components that matter for numbers matching, did they just buy a car, or
pieces?  But you probably could register those pieces with the state as
a car if no one had to see your car first. The law only REALLY cares
about the numbers, obviously. Although the legal issue arises, I think
those laws stemmed from stolen cars and VIN swapping for profit.  The
bad guys is who they want to stop.  But unfortunately, the laws aren't
written to exclude the people with good intentions.

The fact that the body had been swapped should be made evident when
selling so the prospective new owner can decide. (Again, legality issues
abound)  And if someone thinks the 442 needs saving as well, then I'm
sure you could swap him a Cutlass body in the same condition for it. 
Something anyway could be worked out.  

The bottom line is, do what you want with you and yours, and leave me
and mine alone.  If I want to take all my Oldses to the crusher
tomorrow, (don't worry, I won't) I'm sure there would be some people out
there that would hate me for it.  Same reasoning that although I hate to
see an original Olds hacked up and modified radically, it's really none
of my business since I don't own it.

The whole number swapping routine is risky at best.  I surely wouldn't
do it personally.  But nothing is illegal if you don't get caught.

Opinions that mean nothing,
Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:45:00 -0500
From: "Edward Binnix" <comid@jellico.com>
Subject: Re: MSD and factory tachs

MSD literature and some tachometer literature both describe incompatibility
problems. If you look in the Summit catalog at the Summit brand tachometers,
both shift light and regular models, the product description specifically
names MSD as an incompatible ignition system for their tachs. We all know
that Summit really doesn't manufacture anything. Their tachs are made by
either VDO, Autogage, or Sun (maybe there's another manufacturer of tachs
that I know nothing about). Thus there are most likely other tachs out there
that are incompatible with MSD. I have seen and heard of other people that
have had the same experience with cheap tachs and MSD. I'm talking about
people who have more technical experience than most of this list combined.
So, Mr. Omega, I'm not talking off the cuff.

- -----Original Message-----

>
> Maybe these tach
>problems are being caused by improper installation or ???
>Ed
>The omega man

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:43:32 EST
From: Onebil2mny@aol.com
Subject: Re: Donor bodies - not too long

In a message dated 1/5/1999 4:39:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,
hurstolds@xtalwind.net writes:

<<  My own beliefs consider the fact that
 the car's history was made with the basic body shell it was built upon. 
 Replace all the quarters, fenders doors and windows you like, but the
 cowl area is the heart of the historical car.  They even tagged the body
 as well as its "pedigree". >>


so if he were to swap the body, but re-swap the cowl, it would still be the
original car in your eyes??

Bill (kinda makes sense I have to admit) K

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:36:09 -0500
From: toddmorr@us.ibm.com
Subject: Re: Comp Cams - Olds Muscle Car Cams

I use Engle lifters sold by Mondello, combined with the Comp Cams Magnum
kit from Summit and don't really have any noise to speak of.  Certainly no
clicking or clacking.  I do have a swishing or rolling sort of sound, I
suspect from the roller tips on the rockers rolling across the tops of the
valve stems.  FWIW, my cam is more mild than yours--about .496 lift on the
exhaust side....

Todd Morris
71 442

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:57:56 -0500
From: "Edward Binnix" <comid@jellico.com>
Subject: Re: Dual exhaust

I just wanted to have a dual exhaust response, even though I have nothing to
add. I just didn't want to be left out of this wonderfully mundane 4 day
string. :-)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:01:12 -0500
From: "Edward Binnix" <comid@jellico.com>
Subject: Funny noises (was Re: Comp Cams - Olds Muscle Car Cams

I have noticed that the Holley HP Mechanical fuel pump makes a swishing type
of noise. If you are using one, that is what you may be hearing.

- -----Original Message-----

>
>I use Engle lifters sold by Mondello, combined with the Comp Cams Magnum
>kit from Summit and don't really have any noise to speak of.  Certainly no
>clicking or clacking.  I do have a swishing or rolling sort of sound, I
>suspect from the roller tips on the rockers rolling across the tops of the
>valve stems.  FWIW, my cam is more mild than yours--about .496 lift on the
>exhaust side....
>
>Todd Morris
>71 442
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 17:07:33 -0500
From: "Mike Rothe." <hurstolds@xtalwind.net>
Subject: Re: Donor bodies - not too long

> so if he were to swap the body, but re-swap the cowl, it would still be the
> original car in your eyes??

Yes.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:09:39 EST
From: RARE73OLDS@aol.com
Subject: Re: Comp Cams - Olds Muscle Car Cams

It seems that once you get up in the 520 lift range the clatter starts. Even
with all the adjustable valve train crap. No matter how tight or loose you
adjust them they always made noise. The factory 328 cam is perfectly quite and
runs good enough . With no noise. Dont get me wrong the other higher lift cams
from mondello and comp cams definitely make more power up top but the noise
will drive you insane if you drive on the street. At the track with the
headers open you wont here a thing and the car would be faster 
<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/magsurv/index.html">1973 Olds Cutlass 455
4speed</A> .  Harry from NJ

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:12:54 EST
From: RARE73OLDS@aol.com
Subject: Re: Funny noises (was Re: Comp Cams - Olds Muscle Car Cams

Watch out for that holley mechanicl fuel pump !!!  They are known to self
destruct on big block Olds'. One on my 69 I had and my dads 67 and my brothers
65 and my friend Kevins 70 all developed a crack and Oil went all over the
detailed engine of my dads 67 W30. Harry from NJ 
<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/magsurv/index.html">1973 Olds Cutlass 455
4speed</A> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:14:04 -0500
From: "Master Costanzo" <costanzo@netcarrier.com>
Subject: seat fabric

Well, I bought a 1984 Cutlass Calais.  It's got the seats and console and
some other things I want.  I'd like to (eventually) reupholster the seats to
match my fabric exactly.  The color's alright, but the pattern's different.
Is there a place that offers original style fabric for such things?  thanks
y'all

Ray Costanzo
87 409 Cutlass
84 Calais winter beater/parts donor
costanzo@netcarrier.com
http://www.user1.netcarrier.com/~costanzo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:14:13 EST
From: Onebil2mny@aol.com
Subject: Re: Donor bodies - not too long

In a message dated 1/5/1999 5:11:57 PM Eastern Standard Time,
hurstolds@xtalwind.net writes:

<<  so if he were to swap the body, but re-swap the cowl, it would still be
the
 > original car in your eyes??
 
 Yes.
 
 Mike Rothe
  >>


Ok, I can handle that

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 14:14:36 PST
From: "scott slater" <slater442w30@hotmail.com>
Subject: EXHAUST LEAK ?????

I just got my dual exhaust on my 78 Cutlass Supreme.  My car has no 
catalytic converter so the problem is something else.  The problem is 
the exhaust makes a funny almost wide open leak noise when the car is in 
reverse only.  It has made this noise ever since I put a 350 in it.  I 
used to have just a piece of straight pipe and a turbo ending before the 
rearend and even then when it was blaring loud I could hear the noise.  
My brother thinks the noise is pipe hitting the frame.  I already tried 
tightning the bolts and moving the flanges around and the noise 
continues.  Anyone out there that has ever had this problem or knows how 
to solve it or what may be doing it please E-Mail the answers or your 
opinion on what it may be.



SCOTT SLATER
70 CUTLASS SUPREME
78 CUTLASS SUPREME


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 17:09:09 -0500
From: dgerow@student.stonehill.edu (Daniel R. Gerow)
Subject: re-subscribe

could someone please tell me how to re-subscribe.  I got nuked somehow.
Thanks

Dan Gerow

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:18:14 EST
From: Onebil2mny@aol.com
Subject: Re: seat fabric

In a message dated 1/5/1999 5:15:03 PM Eastern Standard Time,
costanzo@netcarrier.com writes:

<< he color's alright, but the pattern's different.
 Is there a place that offers original style fabric for such things?  thanks
 y'all >>


There is, but I don't know where.  We just re did the seats in my GF's Monte
Carlo (87) and they had to special order the material from a place that keeps
old material in stock.

I guess you need to contact your local upholstery shop

Bill K

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:20:34 -0500
From: "Edward Binnix" <comid@jellico.com>
Subject: Re: Funny noises (was Re: Comp Cams - Olds Muscle 

I've heard that. When my new motor is finished, it will be fed by an
electric pump.

- -----Original Message-----

>Watch out for that holley mechanicl fuel pump !!!  They are known to self
>destruct on big block Olds'. One on my 69 I had and my dads 67 and my
brothers
>65 and my friend Kevins 70 all developed a crack and Oil went all over the
>detailed engine of my dads 67 W30. Harry from NJ
><A HREF="http://members.aol.com/magsurv/index.html">1973 Olds Cutlass 455
>4speed</A>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:23:44 -0700
From: "Igor T. '81 DRB 455" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Re: Dual Exhaust

>(and I'm sure the 4" chrome
>exhaust tip bolted to the end of the exhaust of the otherwise-stock Honda
>Civic a student has here is even less restrictive still... ;)

Yeah, love those.  The best part is when they have 18-inch $3000 dollar rims
and tires, fancy paint job, 4" tip, lightning speed stickers and a turbo
muffler in a Honda and then I come along in my bone stock looking Regency
with a original, 160,000 307 on PROPANE with 2.56 gears and blow them away,
(while listening to him rev the crap out of that little thing).  Gotta love
that.  Can't wait for the snow to melt so that I can take my '81 Delta with
a 455 and really kick some butt.

Igor Todorovic
1981 Delta 88 (455/th400/3.23 posi)
1981 98 Regency (307/2004R/propane)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 17:39:44 EST
From: dpauliso@juno.com (Dave Paulison)
Subject: Re: FS: 68-75+ Olds Parts

Hi again Jim,

On Fri, 01 Jan 1999 Jim Chermack <chermac@exis.net> writes:
>

>69 Front and Rear 4 Doors  (small dings, no rust) $35.00 ea
>69 4 Door Panels (Gold, cloth, nice)  $25.00 ea

These are all four doors for a four door car?  And panels, too?  Are
there any other interior trim pieces you have for a four door?  
Would you take $215 for all eight pieces?  (I've got to clear this with
the wife, of course, before I commit to purchasing them).  

Oh, can you tell me if they're four door hard top doors (like mine, no
center pillar or window frames) or if they're post doors (which I can't
use :( )

Thanks,

Dave

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 17:39:44 EST
From: dpauliso@juno.com (Dave Paulison)
Subject: Re: FS: 68-75+ Olds Parts

Hi Jim,

On Fri, 01 Jan 1999 Jim Chermack <chermac@exis.net> writes:
>

>69 Cutlass "S" Hood (good cond, light rust under front)  $40.00

Is this price correct?  Whats the difference between an "S" hood and the
one on my '69 Cutlass Supreme?  How much for shipping this item?

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 17:39:44 EST
From: dpauliso@juno.com (Dave Paulison)
Subject: Re: 69 parts for sale

Dino,

Please let me know what parts there are for sale.  Is it a whole car?  I
need a front bumper, grilles, headlight bezels and housings, all front
bumper brackets, rear lower boxed control arms, rear sway bar, dual
exhaust manifolds, maybe some other stuff.  

Thanks,

Dave
On Thu, 31 Dec 1998 17:41:02 EST Sprotten25@aol.com writes:
>for sale parts off of one 69 cutlass s  all original e-mail me for 
>details 
>sprotten25@aol.com
>
>thanks  
>Dino
>

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You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
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or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:08:14 EST
From: KS7RACING@aol.com
Subject: MSD's and Tach's (Was Re: Cats and tachs)

Jeremy,

What brand of tach are you running?  AutoMeter usually tells you that you'll
void the warranty on their tachs if they're hooked up to the coil on an MSD
system, has to do with the increased voltage to the coil frying the tach's
electronics.  And it won't start with the tach hooked up to the MSD box?  I've
wired race cars for years and always connect the "green"(usually) tach signal
to the terminal on the side of the MSD box.  The only exception I have is the
new MSD boxes that have the WeatherPack connector on them, I have one of these
for my stock car.  The thing I like about that connector is they automatically
delete the white wire that was supposed to be able to use a set of points
(from the pre-HEI distributors) to trigger the box.  I always wind up cutting
it off, capping the wire and stowing it anyway.

I'd double-check the wiring on both the tach and the MSD box to be sure
everything's up to snuff.  Probably the reason the tach is erratic is the
excess voltage and multiple pulses for each cylinder the MSD box sends out.

Hope this helps, e-mail me privately if there's any other questions you have.
I'll be glad to try and help solve the problems.

Take Care,
Ken Snyder
Kansas City, Kansas
KS7RACING@aol.com

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #1702
*********************************

