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Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #1992


oldsmobile-digest       Wednesday, June 2 1999       Volume 01 : Number 1992



Re: New Auto
Re: 160 deg VS. 180 deg 
Re: posi question
Re: 160 deg VS. 180 deg 
Re: Convertible top question
Re: Flex Fans (Electric)
Wanna Buy an Engine Plant?
Re: 160 deg VS. 180 deg
Re: Snake oils and other engine voodoos
Re: New Auto
I need a cragar mag.
Re: Wanna Buy an Engine Plant?
Re: I need a cragar mag.
Re: I need a cragar mag.
Oooooh! Me! was: Wanna Buy an Engine Plant?
Re: I need a cragar mag.
Re: 160 deg VS. 180 deg
Re: 160 deg VS. 180 deg
Re: Snake oils and other engine voodoos
Stormy Weather..... and SOM   [long]
Re: 160 deg VS. 180 deg
Re: Memorial Day Fun
Re: I need a cragar mag.
Re: posi question
Re: 160 deg VS. 180 deg
Re: 8 track player????
Re: I need a cragar mag.
Re: Oooooh! Me! was: Wanna Buy an Engine Plant?
Re: 71 D-88 Parting Out
Re: Snake oils and other engine voodoos
Re: Stormy Weather..... and SOM   [long]
Re: Flex Fans (Electric)
Great Midwestern Caravan dates set
Re: I need a cragar mag.
1965 400 4 bbl intake
Re: Oooooh! Me! was: Wanna Buy an Engine Plant?
Re: Stormy Weather..... and SOM [long]
Re: Stormy Weather..... and SOM   [long]
Re: Stormy Weather..... and SOM   [long]
Re: Stormy Weather..... and SOM   [long]
Re: Oooooh! Me! was: Wanna Buy an Engine Plant?
Re: Oooooh! Me! was: Wanna Buy an Engine Plant?
Re: Great Midwestern Caravan dates set

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 08:20:02 -0700
From: Chris Sparks <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Subject: Re: New Auto

Hi folks,

I am now in the process of looking at buying a new car.  I would
like some suggestions that people would know that I would be 
happy with.  I have alread tried the new VW Golf and the Olds
Alero.  Please e-mail me directly.

Olds content:  The Alero really sucked.

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 10:42:14 -0500
From: "Ian M. C. Dixon" <iand@sbrc.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: Re: 160 deg VS. 180 deg 

I've gotta agree with Omega Man.  I just replaced my OEM fan 
clutch and installed a 160 in my 409 (403 @ 30 over) and it runs 
exactly at 160 no matter what.  This is a freshly rebuilt engine with 
about 500 miles on it, too. With the original 180 the temp would 
creep up to ~200 in traffic.   My question is: is 160 deg as an 
operating temo too cool for some reason?

Ian
82 Toronado with 1977 403 windowed-web ;) Olds power [non CCC 
750 cfm Q-jet and vacuum advance HEI]. 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 11:46:08 -0400
From: Gene Gilpin <ggilpin@wrallp.com>
Subject: Re: posi question

At 02:45 AM 6/2/99 EDT, you wrote:
>In a message dated 6/1/99 11:10:43 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
>newsance@netzero.net writes:
>
><< So heres the question. The seller claims it has a 3.08 posi in it.
However,
> the drivers side rear tire is very close to bald, while the other seems to
> have half its tread on it.
> 
> This screamed ONE LEGGER to me, except that doesn't the passenger tire spin
> before the left on a one legger? >>
>
>	Well, one bald tire would certainly make me think that...but your 
>right, in all the instances I have seen, the passenger is the one that
spins. 
>Gravel or dirt is a good place to check. Supposedly worn internals in a one 
>legger can cause the appearance of posi, although a bad posi could likewise 
>give the appearance of a one legger, perhaps even on the opposite side.
Dorian
>



Well, there is only one way to find out for sure. Jack up the rear and spin
one wheel. If the other rotates in same direction, posi. If its opposite,
one legger. Laying patches on the road (or in dirt) can be deceiving. Back
in '91 when I was running my Omega with a 350hp SBC-word (I know) I could
lay down 60-70 ft of rubber and it ALWAYS layed a perfect set of posi
marks. The thing had a 3.08 one legger rear in it. It didn't matter when
where or how hard it would always spin posi. Left hand turn, right hand
turn or straight ahead. POSI. And the internals werent worn out either. It
was in good shape. On the other hand. At the same time I also had a '74
Nova SS. 350/4spd with a 3.55 posi rear. It was kinda wore out. When I
lit'em up with that thing the driverside tire would lay down a solid patch
while the passenger side would just haze the surface. It was still catching
posi but one wheel was definitely putting more power to the pavement than
the other one was. And with all this rambling my point is, jack it up and
check it out.

Omega Man

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 11:50:17 -0400
From: Gene Gilpin <ggilpin@wrallp.com>
Subject: Re: 160 deg VS. 180 deg 

Yea, it's a little cool. Best peformance of the piston rings and oil is
acheived at around 180-200 deg. The engine needs to be up to operating temp to
perform best. Right guys? Looking for the experts to back me up on this one.

Omega Man 



At 10:42 AM 6/2/99 -0500, you wrote:
>I've gotta agree with Omega Man.  I just replaced my OEM fan 
>clutch and installed a 160 in my 409 (403 @ 30 over) and it runs 
>exactly at 160 no matter what.  This is a freshly rebuilt engine with 
>about 500 miles on it, too. With the original 180 the temp would 
>creep up to ~200 in traffic.   My question is: is 160 deg as an 
>operating temo too cool for some reason?
>
>Ian
>82 Toronado with 1977 403 windowed-web ;) Olds power [non CCC 
>750 cfm Q-jet and vacuum advance HEI]. 
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 08:53:02 PDT
From: "Ioannis Kouramanis" <kourama@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Convertible top question

> > Q1: What the heck is that for? It's thick and stiff enough to be a
> > part of a frame or something, but what is it doing going inside the
> > window?
>
>This cable is used to keep the sides of the top tight against the top
>frame when the top "balloons".  Otherwise it would just flap in the
>breeze.

<SNIP>

Paul,

No, I'm not talking about the tension cables, this is a wire about
3/16" thick. It is by no means flexible. it runs horiz. through into
the top. It's really hard to see exactly where it's going. Also, the
tension cable shouldn't run inside the window area.

This thing stays in the same position whether the top is up or down.

Hmmm, maybe I can put a picture of it on a web page somewhere...

Thanks.


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 11:51:40 -0400
From: "Ed Binnix" <comid@jellico.com>
Subject: Re: Flex Fans (Electric)

Moroso's electric water pump drive kit will work on Olds (according to
Moroso). It uses the existing pump driven by an electric motor and belt.
Plan on losing ALL belt driven accessories for this to work.

- -----Original Message-----

>Gary,
>
>Nope, I am not informed on anything you don't know. I
>haven't checked into the electric pumps as of yet
>because I still am unsure what I want to go with. If I
>do want to go with one, it will be for the SB 350.
>What you say doesn't suprise me though. I have found
>that Olds performance parts can be hard to find.
>
>Del
>===
>Rock-Man's Page http://www.angelfire.com/nd/RockMan
>rockman20@yahoo.com
>1986 Honda Accord DX And a 1969 Olds Cutlass "S"
>1985 Honda Big Red 3-wheeler And a 1983 Honda Big Red 3-wheeler (For Sale)
>1981 John Deer Snowmobile And a 197? Massey Ferguson Snowmobile
>(I like things in pairs! *LOL*)
>_________________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 13:06:53 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Wanna Buy an Engine Plant?

Reading the Financial Post this AM, and what do I see but an advert for
"Maynard's Sales" (www.maynards.com), an industrial auction house. Here's
some of what they are putting on the block:

GM & Delphi Automotive:
July 1&2, Warren, Mi.
July 22, Lansing, Mi.
Also production machinery & equipment from Lansing, no auction but a
contact person to call. 

GM:
Flint V-8 Engine Plant, Nov. 30-Dec. 2, Flint, Mi.

The Buick City plant (it says "robots, machine tools, etc.") has the same
thing as above, no auction but call Taso Sofikitis @ 517-482-5861 if
you're interested. 

There is also an auction a week from this Saturday at Boeing in Kent, Wa.,
if anyone wants to build airplanes...

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada
   --- Olds List Admin Instructions at: http://oldslist.tsx.org ---
             &  http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner/listfaq.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 12:06:00 -0400
From: "Ed Binnix" <comid@jellico.com>
Subject: Re: 160 deg VS. 180 deg

I read somewhere that running the engine too cool greatly accelerated engine
wear, especially cylinder wear. This is to to lack of adequate heat
expansion that occurs at higher temperatures. 160 degrees was considered (by
the publication in question) to be too cool. The conclusion of the article
was that, for most cars, a 180 is a happy medium. Some later models would
need a 192+ thermostat. Since my car is not at all "late model," I didn't
much pay attention to the reasons.

Seems to me, that you could set up an engine with loose tolerances that
would benefit from running cool. Please remember, to a point, heat is a good
thing. Detroit has had the technology for decades to make a motor run much
cooler than even 160. They don't use it. Why? Heat good! Also, I don't
believe a car has ever come off the assembly line with 160 degree
thermostat. Why? Heat good! Sure, you want to keep a race car as cool as
possible, but race cars generally get torn down once a year (AT LEAST).

Help! I'm talking and I can't shut up!!!

Ed
(obviously a long-winded preacher)

- -----Original Message-----

>I've gotta agree with Omega Man.  I just replaced my OEM fan
>clutch and installed a 160 in my 409 (403 @ 30 over) and it runs
>exactly at 160 no matter what.  This is a freshly rebuilt engine with
>about 500 miles on it, too. With the original 180 the temp would
>creep up to ~200 in traffic.   My question is: is 160 deg as an
>operating temo too cool for some reason?
>
>Ian
>82 Toronado with 1977 403 windowed-web ;) Olds power [non CCC
>750 cfm Q-jet and vacuum advance HEI].
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 12:08:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: dsenko@UU.NET (Drew Senko)
Subject: Re: Snake oils and other engine voodoos

> I was traveling through the airport this weekend and
> picked up a copy of Ch*vy Craft, ... er ... I mean,
> "Car Craft" and saw an ad for an oil additive that
> supposedly helps high mileage engines.
> 
> The name was something like Resolve, or Risolve.  I
> don't have the exact name since I felt the mag wasn't
> really worth keeping.  The product claimed to "seal"
> the groves and scratched on the cylinder wall cause by
> many miles.  The main claimed benefit was increased
> compression and overall engine efficiency.


There is a product called Rislone that I have used.  It did help my
compression.  I had piston rings that were sticking and this freed
them up.  Compression was inconsistent across all cylinders before the
Rislone, but after about 300 miles with it, the numbers were all
within spec.  I don't know about sealing grooves and scratches on the
cylinder walls, but compression certainly improved and stabilized.

I don't use it all the time, but it was good in this instance.  You
can get it in about a pint size that you just add to your oil, or a
premixed quart of oil/Rislone.  When I've used it, I put it in when
I'm a few hundred miles from an oil change.  Drive the car for about
300 miles, and then change the oil.  It worked for me.  

I do not know anything about the product "Restore" that Kerry Kroger
mentioned.

 --                    ______________                     _
Drew Senko            / Convertibles \                    |\
dsenko@uu.net         \_____Rule!____/     .__====-_._____|_\______
Vienna, VA, USA                     O      [   ___  |-     |  ___  \
http://members.aol.com/drewinva       o o  =\_//.\\_|______|_//.\\__)
_______________________________________________\_/____________\_/_____

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 12:21:03 EDT
From: Knightvd@aol.com
Subject: Re: New Auto

In a message dated 6/2/99 10:22:12 AM Central Daylight Time, 
mrada@catalina-inter.net writes:

<< I am now in the process of looking at buying a new car.  I would
 like some suggestions that people would know that I would be 
 happy with.  I have alread tried the new VW Golf and the Olds
 Alero.  Please e-mail me directly.
 
 Olds content:  The Alero really sucked.
 
 Chris Sparks >>

Too bad.  Did you test drive the Alero with the six and the wide tires?

Vince Knight
71 Cutlass Supreme Convertible

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 12:29:36 -0400
From: Gene Gilpin <ggilpin@wrallp.com>
Subject: I need a cragar mag.

This might be a tough one. I have a rare old set of Cragar S/X mags.
14"x6". They are made of magnesium. They look like the bastard offspring of
a Cragar S/S and the old Torque Trust Ds. Satin with black center and
chrome cap. I need another one. One looks as though it took a pothole real
hard. It's slightly bent on the outer rim edge. If anyone has one or knows
of one or used to know of one or anything that can help me find one. please
email me.
BTW, If you don't know what these look like, email me and I'll send you a
pic of them. Thanks
TIA

Omega Man
'74 Omega S 455/auto
"74 Omega 455/4spd (someyear)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 12:31:45 -0400
From: "Ed Binnix" <comid@jellico.com>
Subject: Re: Wanna Buy an Engine Plant?

Lets pool our resources and bring  . . . any old Cutlass back into
production. Of course we'd have to move it all to Mexico and smuggle the
cars back into the country because I, for one, would not even consider
putting smog controls on them. Not until the swimming pools in California
get regulated for the evaporation of chlorine gas, the worst of all ozone
depleting chemicals.
Oh no, I've started talking again. HELP!

Ed


- -----Original Message-----

>"Maynard's Sales" (www.maynards.com), an industrial auction house. Here's
>some of what they are putting on the block:
>
>GM & Delphi Automotive:
>July 1&2, Warren, Mi.
>July 22, Lansing, Mi.
>Also production machinery & equipment from Lansing, no auction but a
>contact person to call.
>
>GM:
>Flint V-8 Engine Plant, Nov. 30-Dec. 2, Flint, Mi.
>
>The Buick City plant (it says "robots, machine tools, etc.") has the same
>thing as above, no auction but call Taso Sofikitis @ 517-482-5861 if
>you're interested.
>
>There is also an auction a week from this Saturday at Boeing in Kent, Wa.,
>if anyone wants to build airplanes...
>
>Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada
>   --- Olds List Admin Instructions at: http://oldslist.tsx.org ---
>             &  http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner/listfaq.htm
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 12:36:47 -0400
From: "Ed Binnix" <comid@jellico.com>
Subject: Re: I need a cragar mag.

That rim can "probably" be repaired. I recently saw an article on this in
one of the car rags. It's likely more feasible than trying to find one of
these rims.

- -----Original Message-----

>This might be a tough one. I have a rare old set of Cragar S/X mags.
>14"x6". They are made of magnesium. They look like the bastard offspring of
>a Cragar S/S and the old Torque Trust Ds. Satin with black center and
>chrome cap. I need another one. One looks as though it took a pothole real
>hard. It's slightly bent on the outer rim edge. If anyone has one or knows
>of one or used to know of one or anything that can help me find one. please
>email me.
>BTW, If you don't know what these look like, email me and I'll send you a
>pic of them. Thanks
>TIA
>
>Omega Man
>'74 Omega S 455/auto
>"74 Omega 455/4spd (someyear)
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 12:44:20 -0400
From: Gene Gilpin <ggilpin@wrallp.com>
Subject: Re: I need a cragar mag.

You know I thought of that. But these not being steel rims I was afraid to
beat on it for it might crack of the lip, then what? I only have 3. That
won't work. It would probably balance out with a bunch of weights, but It
would look better as a spare in the trunk if ya know what I mean.

Omega Man





At 12:36 PM 6/2/99 -0400, you wrote:
>That rim can "probably" be repaired. I recently saw an article on this in
>one of the car rags. It's likely more feasible than trying to find one of
>these rims.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>
>>This might be a tough one. I have a rare old set of Cragar S/X mags.
>>14"x6". They are made of magnesium. They look like the bastard offspring of
>>a Cragar S/S and the old Torque Trust Ds. Satin with black center and
>>chrome cap. I need another one. One looks as though it took a pothole real
>>hard. It's slightly bent on the outer rim edge. If anyone has one or knows
>>of one or used to know of one or anything that can help me find one. please
>>email me.
>>BTW, If you don't know what these look like, email me and I'll send you a
>>pic of them. Thanks
>>TIA
>>
>>Omega Man
>>'74 Omega S 455/auto
>>"74 Omega 455/4spd (someyear)
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 12:43:11 EDT
From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Subject: Oooooh! Me! was: Wanna Buy an Engine Plant?

In a message dated 99-06-02 12:08:28 EDT, you write:

<<  GM:
 Flint V-8 Engine Plant, Nov. 30-Dec. 2, Flint, Mi.
 
 The Buick City plant (it says "robots, machine tools, etc.") has the same
 thing as above, no auction but call Taso Sofikitis @ 517-482-5861 if
 you're interested.  >>

Well, it is in a bad neighborhood, but...

Lets see a show of hands.

Who wants to invest in an engine plant and build aluminium 425s/455's?

Or something?

SOM

&KA

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 12:58:14 -0400
From: "Randy Geisel" <Rocket455@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: I need a cragar mag.

> That rim can "probably" be repaired. I recently saw an article on this in
> one of the car rags. It's likely more feasible than trying to find one of
> these rims.

Don't use a torch though, it'll ignite. Kinda cool........

Randy

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 13:08:40 -0400
From: Doug Ahern <doug@mail.RATH.PeachNet.EDU>
Subject: Re: 160 deg VS. 180 deg

On Wed, Jun 02, 1999 at 10:42:14AM -0500, Ian M. C. Dixon wrote:
> I've gotta agree with Omega Man.  I just replaced my OEM fan 
> clutch and installed a 160 in my 409 (403 @ 30 over) and it runs 
> exactly at 160 no matter what.  This is a freshly rebuilt engine with 
> about 500 miles on it, too. With the original 180 the temp would 
> creep up to ~200 in traffic.   My question is: is 160 deg as an 
> operating temo too cool for some reason?

160 is way too cool.  anything under 210 is safe if you have a
good antifreeze mix and a 10+ lb. radiator cap... 230 and its time
to start thinking about pulling over, cool down, go home and figure 
out a way to run cooler.  

sitting in traffic, if you start running hot, knock the trans into
neutral (if automatic-ally equipped), and let the rpms go up a
few hunred rpm.   this isn't something you want to do constantly
10 times per trip across town (you certainly can, its just a
pain... and probably adds wear tot he trans...) but if there
is a wreck or bad traffic jam, it can come in handy...  everyone
probably already knows this....

180-200 is perfect.

Doug Ahern

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 11:15:05 +0000
From: Cliff Simpson <csimpson@ucalgary.ca>
Subject: Re: 160 deg VS. 180 deg

Gene Gilpin wrote:
> 
> Yea, it's a little cool. Best peformance of the piston rings and oil is
> acheived at around 180-200 deg. The engine needs to be up to operating temp 
to
> perform best. Right guys? Looking for the experts to back me up on this one.

That's what my "#1 parts man" said the oil reps tell him.  I think he also said
that the oil is about 10 degrees cooler than the coolant and that oil doesn't
work right below 170 or so.   I think the best setup is a cooler (heat risers
blocked) intake with a warm (180 degreeish) engine.  You want the air/fuel
charge cool and dense but the rest of the engine likes to be warmer than 160.

The "warm is good" line is also what a GM mechanic told me years ago, FWIW,
- -- 

Cliff "Cool top, Warm bottom" Simpson
mailto:csimpson@ucalgary.ca
'69 442,400,th400,3.31p (Kermit)
http://www.acs.ucalgary.ca/~csimpson/TheOldsZone.html

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 12:43:19 -0500
From: "Kerry Kroger" <kerryk@freewwweb.com>
Subject: Re: Snake oils and other engine voodoos

rislone has been around for a long time it is what is called a top cylinder
lube restore makes the claim that it rejuvinates seals, seals cylinder
compression loss etc. it is advertised in magazines
a lot and was originally marketed by J.C.Whitney years and years ago then it
hit the open market and killed a lot of engines I would set it up on the
wall of shame with slick 50, prolong, duralube, and the list goes on cant
bring myself to use this stuff but somebody does because they keep making it
and super car polishes......KK
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Drew Senko <dsenko@UU.NET>
To: olds <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: Snake oils and other engine voodoos


> > I was traveling through the airport this weekend and
> > picked up a copy of Ch*vy Craft, ... er ... I mean,
> > "Car Craft" and saw an ad for an oil additive that
> > supposedly helps high mileage engines.
> >
> > The name was something like Resolve, or Risolve.  I
> > don't have the exact name since I felt the mag wasn't
> > really worth keeping.  The product claimed to "seal"
> > the groves and scratched on the cylinder wall cause by
> > many miles.  The main claimed benefit was increased
> > compression and overall engine efficiency.
>
>
> There is a product called Rislone that I have used.  It did help my
> compression.  I had piston rings that were sticking and this freed
> them up.  Compression was inconsistent across all cylinders before the
> Rislone, but after about 300 miles with it, the numbers were all
> within spec.  I don't know about sealing grooves and scratches on the
> cylinder walls, but compression certainly improved and stabilized.
>
> I don't use it all the time, but it was good in this instance.  You
> can get it in about a pint size that you just add to your oil, or a
> premixed quart of oil/Rislone.  When I've used it, I put it in when
> I'm a few hundred miles from an oil change.  Drive the car for about
> 300 miles, and then change the oil.  It worked for me.
>
> I do not know anything about the product "Restore" that Kerry Kroger
> mentioned.
>
>  --                    ______________                     _
> Drew Senko            / Convertibles \                    |\
> dsenko@uu.net         \_____Rule!____/     .__====-_._____|_\______
> Vienna, VA, USA                     O      [   ___  |-     |  ___  \
> http://members.aol.com/drewinva       o o  =\_//.\\_|______|_//.\\__)
> _______________________________________________\_/____________\_/_____
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 14:06:44 EDT
From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Subject: Stormy Weather..... and SOM   [long]

Go to the kitchen, or the bathroom, or scan the office to see if anyone has 
noticed that you are only realing Email now, this may take a while.

To begin at the beginning.

The Muffler.

Karl did previously opine that the replacement single exhaust was more 
restrictive than his patch setup, or even the now-only-a-faint-memory 
original muffler.
Makes SOM awful quiet.
Could scarcely tell when she pinged whilst working on the timing.

Lately, have noticed odd fluctuations in engine noise.
Or possibly, exhaust noise.
Interestingly, a ~slight~ increase in volume would coincide with bounce or 
bound of body over physical street blemishes et alii.

It was Karl's offhand opinion that the exh man gasket (if one) was going due 
to abnormal exh pressures due to new muffler. Bummer.

The Storm.

Karl awoke rather early for work, but aside from a brief away, chose to 
languish a while in the warm bed on the cool evening.
T-storm going outside.
Rain is furious.
Karl smiles.
Karl like rain.
Eventually, time to get up and go.
Black Jeans, T-shirt, jeans jacket.
Usual preparations made, and out the door.
Not raining hard right now.

SOM cranked a little while, but fired on first key turn as always.
(Karl never shoulda fiddled with the choke, fine as it was...)
"Cold" light goes off relatively early, off they go.
Exhaust noise going f-f-f-F-F-F-f-f-f as they bounce along sidestreets.
Still raining.
Onto Interstate 94, bound southeast.
Light rain gets harder.
Karl notes that whatever exhaust leak that there is, is allowing more engine 
power.
Merging with traffic easy (6 lane, 2 way highway).

But raining harder, and dark, tough to see white lane stripes.
But Karl has always been good at this, peering ahead, and, failing the 
appearance of a white stripe, reading the contours of the asphalt (or cement) 
which tend to coincide with the lane widths.
But left lane has enough water in puddles towards the left to cause wide cars 
to pull to the left when driven through.
So Karl finds an appropriate gap and uses middle lane.

Very wet.
And noisy.
Always much truck traffic on this interstate.
Intermittent thunder & lightning not helping.
The middle lane is usually 80% populated by big rigs.
Not tonight.
Left, middle and center, they are going where and as fast as they please.
Kicking up massive spray everywhere.

Inside Indiana now.
Just ahead of a white van that might be an ambulance or odd work truck.
Behind... well a Semi Karl thinks, but cannot now recall.

BAM!
(a sound with force that makes Karl feel it comes from the direction of the 
transmission)
(((what?)))
Something makes SOM shudder.
Karl imagines a blown TH400, a dropped driveshaft.
All that is for certain is that there is no more force from engine.
Moving now only on impetus.
Karl knows what to do, and hopes there is time (and coast distance) left.
Signalling (of course) he heads SOM right, towards the shoulder.
Have to wait for one car to pass, but make it OK.
And stop.
So much for that trip to Texas.

Idiot lights are on (GEN, OIL), consistent with this engine when it dies.
So is defroster, and headlights.
Karl switches key off, puts fog light on.
Still raining hard, and very noisy.
Not gonna try to restart as might not hear important engine sounds, normal or 
otherwise.
Not gonna hike to payphone in this downpour.
Wait for rain to ease before taking look under hood.
At a quieter moment, Karl tries key.
Cranks good, but no ignition.
No firing at all.
This makes Karl suspect ignition or fuel supply.
He has experienced lack of ignition before.

Rain eases slightly.
Find flashlight, not functioning properly, and much too dim when it did work.
Used to be a good light.
Anyhow, can see from the see-thru fuel filter that there is gas going to the 
fuel pump, all else appears normal, even driveshaft is in place.
Too dark to do any real troubleshooting.
Actually had a device for checking spark from plug wires in car, but Karl did 
not wish to electrocute self.
At that time.

Back into car.
Still raining.
Starts to rain harder, still lightning & thunder.
Karl now wet & getting cold.
Opts to wait for rain to stop before hiking to payphone to call tow truck.
Pops into backseat to await inclemental cessation.
A brief nap follows.

Mebbe 1.5 hours later....
Karl's cranium is uncomfortable agains the armrest of the right rear door.
Kinda cold now (how unexpected!).
A lingering peer through fogged windows assures that rain stopped.
For now.
OK, gotta find a payphone (got change).
But first, one last try.

SOM cranks.....

....................... and fires?
Not wanna start, but as SOM now firing, Karl not give up.
There is another significant BAM!
Again, feels/sounds like coming from TH400, or at least from to the right and 
in front.
But definitely running now.
Use defroster on high heat for a while to see thru windscreen.
Then... try shifting to "Drive".
It works!
Not yet fully confident, Karl guides SOM along shoulder to the nearby 
off-ramp and actually enters the traffic lane when confident there is a 
sizeable opening (back & side windows fogged good).
On local streets now, SOM operates normally, but Karl still unsure.
Nevertheless, he turns around and heads for the Interstate on-ramp.

Soylent performs flawlessly, but Karl is still overcautious.
Apparrent from traffic that they are relatively slow.
Gaining confidence as they go, Karl makes it to work 2 hours late.
Says SOM's distributor was wet (not those exact words), but is still not 100 
percent certain.

Afterword.

Shift ends.
Karl's compadre did well in his temporary abscence.
When Karl finally clocks out he checks SOM's oil.
Down 1/2.
Amends this, then looks at flange connection to LH exh man.
Two studs, but a nut is missing at bottom, passengers side.
That accounts for the louder exhaust noise.
Karl was somewhat afraid that the rubber fuel line had failed somewhere as it 
was hanging down farther than desired at one point.
Karl checked this, and....its OK, but.....
What the....?!?

Muffler has buckled and ballooned.
Buckled at the middle, around the vertical cross-section.
Front and back appar to have ballooned slightly, especially front and rear 
surfaces?

Further, a morning examination of the see-thru fuel filter showed...no fuel???
Well, it is way too close to the transmission fluid lines to/fron the 
radiator.
But still....
Start car......
Starts fine.
Go look at filter again.
Fuel is flowing, but only just enough, not enough to pool in filter, it just 
shoots through to the fuel pump without flooding glass filter housing.
Karl fiddles with throttle linkage, but same at most speeds....
That's odd.
It's usually 1/2 full (or more) of gasoline.

On muffler, no evidence of an impact with anything is visible.

Can a backfire do that to a muffler?

What does a backfire feel like from the driver's seat?

Can anyone suggest what may really have happened?

Anyone?


The Epilogue.

Tonight on the Epilogue we have Monsignior Edward Gaye, author of "My God", 
and Dr. Tom Jack, author of "The Problem of Kirkegaard" and "Hello Sailor".
Tonight, instead of discussing the existence or non-existence of God, they 
have decided to fight for it. The Existence or Non-existence of God to be 
determined by three falls to a knockdown.

And this will be a "flying nova", and now a full body slam......


SOM

&KA


(Epilogue: God exists by two falls to a submission.)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 14:12:07 EDT
From: LOUS69W30@aol.com
Subject: Re: 160 deg VS. 180 deg

In a message dated 06/02/1999 1:10:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
doug@mail.RATH.PeachNet.EDU writes:

<< sitting in traffic, if you start running hot, knock the trans into
 neutral (if automatic-ally equipped), and let the rpms go up a
 few hunred rpm.   this isn't something you want to do constantly
 10 times per trip across town (you certainly can, its just a
 pain... and probably adds wear tot he trans...) but if there
 is a wreck or bad traffic jam, it can come in handy...  everyone
 probably already knows this.... >>

Another trick is to turn the heater on.  You flow the coolant thru the heater 
core.  But this is a pain in the a*s since now it gets real hot in the car.

Lou Principe
69 442 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 14:23:43 EDT
From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Subject: Re: Memorial Day Fun

In a message dated 99-06-01 14:26:47 EDT, you write:

<<  It would have been a lot better (easier) if I'd had a buddy to work with. 
The problem is, I'm a pastor. Who wants to work on a car with a pastor. What 
do you say when you smash your finger? Go . . . sh  Da . . . r n  it? Sh . . 
.oot! Oh well. >>

Ah!
You'd enjoy wrenching with Karl.
Or at least, his buddy John does.
Not that John is adept at engine intesive labor, just that he enjoys watching 
Karl.
Especially that time Karl was swapping starting motors on the street.
Karl was muscling the motor to bolt it up and heard from John, watching from 
above, comments about how his jaw and lower lip (all that were visible from 
above) tensed from time to time during the job....

Karl tends to channel frustration into the work at hand.

This was just before the wire harness and a cracked battery were discovered 
as joint culprits.

SOM

&KA

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 14:22:30 -0400
From: "mAIL" <nicka@localnet.com>
Subject: Re: I need a cragar mag.

Send me a pic. May have one or set?
Nick
- -----Original Message-----
From: Gene Gilpin <ggilpin@wrallp.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 12:29 PM
Subject: I need a cragar mag.


>This might be a tough one. I have a rare old set of Cragar S/X mags.
>14"x6". They are made of magnesium. They look like the bastard offspring of
>a Cragar S/S and the old Torque Trust Ds. Satin with black center and
>chrome cap. I need another one. One looks as though it took a pothole real
>hard. It's slightly bent on the outer rim edge. If anyone has one or knows
>of one or used to know of one or anything that can help me find one. please
>email me.
>BTW, If you don't know what these look like, email me and I'll send you a
>pic of them. Thanks
>TIA
>
>Omega Man
>'74 Omega S 455/auto
>"74 Omega 455/4spd (someyear)
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 14:30:17 EDT
From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Subject: Re: posi question

In a message dated 99-06-02 02:10:43 EDT, you write:

<< This screamed ONE LEGGER to me, except that doesn't the passenger tire spin
 before the left on a one legger? >>

That's right.
Tires were rotated.
And what exactly is wrong with an open 3.08:1 ??

Nothing much wrong with SOM's open 2.93:1.

SOM

&KA

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 14:37:27 EDT
From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Subject: Re: 160 deg VS. 180 deg

In a message dated 99-06-02 14:14:48 EDT, you write:

<< Another trick is to turn the heater on.  You flow the coolant thru the 
heater 
 core.  But this is a pain in the a*s since now it gets real hot in the car. 
>>

Suggested this to cool a buddy's (John) car when it ran hot when suddenly in 
a traffic jam. Also used on the SOM. It does work, but is a test of endurance.

Have deleted most of the posts of this subject heading as feel this a silly 
thread. Karl use 180' thermostat allus.
If suddenly run hot, quite easy to test thetmo in boiling water.

SOM

&KA

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 14:48:43 -0400
From: Matt Cremean <creme1ma@cmich.edu>
Subject: Re: 8 track player????

Dr. Olds - K. Wood wrote:
> 
> Anybody from the list have an 8 track player
> for sale that will fit a 72 Cutlass?  I have obtained a good case for a
> 72, but the player
> is shot.  I know that normally the cases are the
> parts that take the beating and the players play forever.  If anybody
> has a player from Olds that
> will interchange, I would be interested in a
> price for such an item.  Really prefer a unit with
> the wiring harnesses intact.
> 
> Please send the information with required price
> including approximate shipping to Hartland, Wisconsin 53027- to me
> personally at
> Dr-Olds@webtv.net
> 
> Really appreciate any h*lp you guys can give.

I have an 8-track, don't know if it would fit your 72, but it came out
of my 75. Pics can be seen at:
http://www.geocities.com:80/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/8BACK.JPG
http://www.geocities.com:80/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/8WIRES.JPG
http://www.geocities.com:80/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/8FRONT.JPG

- -- 
***********
Matt Cremean
mailto:creme1ma@cmich.edu
*************************
http://drive.to/73cutlass
- -----------------------
'73 Olds Cutlass Supreme
'70 Olds Cutlass 'S'
*************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 15:05:11 -0400
From: "Ed Binnix" <comid@jellico.com>
Subject: Re: I need a cragar mag.

No No, it was a professional repair that involved heating and reshaping and
polishing the wheel back to original condition. Unfortunately I don't know
the name of the company. If I come across the article, I'll let you know.

- -----Original Message-----

>You know I thought of that. But these not being steel rims I was afraid to
>beat on it for it might crack of the lip, then what? I only have 3. That
>won't work. It would probably balance out with a bunch of weights, but It
>would look better as a spare in the trunk if ya know what I mean.
>
>Omega Man
>
>
>
>
>
>At 12:36 PM 6/2/99 -0400, you wrote:
>>That rim can "probably" be repaired. I recently saw an article on this in
>>one of the car rags. It's likely more feasible than trying to find one of
>>these rims.
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>
>>>This might be a tough one. I have a rare old set of Cragar S/X mags.
>>>14"x6". They are made of magnesium. They look like the bastard offspring
of
>>>a Cragar S/S and the old Torque Trust Ds. Satin with black center and
>>>chrome cap. I need another one. One looks as though it took a pothole
real
>>>hard. It's slightly bent on the outer rim edge. If anyone has one or
knows
>>>of one or used to know of one or anything that can help me find one.
please
>>>email me.
>>>BTW, If you don't know what these look like, email me and I'll send you a
>>>pic of them. Thanks
>>>TIA
>>>
>>>Omega Man
>>>'74 Omega S 455/auto
>>>"74 Omega 455/4spd (someyear)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 15:07:40 -0400
From: "Ed Binnix" <comid@jellico.com>
Subject: Re: Oooooh! Me! was: Wanna Buy an Engine Plant?

Me Me Me! Lets do heads too! And steel cranks! Blower Manifolds!
Heheheheheheheheheheheheh! (laughing insanely).

- -----Original Message-----

>Well, it is in a bad neighborhood, but...
>
>Lets see a show of hands.
>
>Who wants to invest in an engine plant and build aluminium 425s/455's?
>
>Or something?
>
>SOM
>
>&KA
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 15:21:28 -0400
From: "James E. Brady III" <James.E.Brady.1@gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: 71 D-88 Parting Out

 > Is yours a 4 door?
No, it is a 2 door convertible but I am willing to adapt to meet my needs.

> This car is high and dry - how come the big cars don't
> have as much rot in the front fenders as our dear A bodies?!
Not sure, but you are right.  My front fenders are fine except for accident
damage on the passenger side.

> I'll check with my neighbor, I don't recall any rust, but can't remember
what the
> dent/ding condition was.
>
> Lisa
>
Where is this car?  It might be farther than realistic especially since rear
quarter panels don't unbolt!  I appreciate you looking into this.

Jim Brady
1973 Olds Delta88 Royale Convertible
http://members.tripod.com/~SuperOlds/JimDelta.html

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 15:39:21 -0400
From: "steve harris" <meso@pamlico.net>
Subject: Re: Snake oils and other engine voodoos

I have used the Restore engine treatment from AutoZone,  and it has worked
well for me.  I have used it in my F*rd F150.  300 straight six with 130000
miles beat on hard 60 mph in 3rd gear roached out POS.  The snake oil keeps
the valves from rattling so bad,  and improves low end power.  This is a
time limited magic potion.   After midnight the motor turns into a mopar
slant six!------AAAAAHHHHHHHHH----- THE WORDS MOPAR!!!  AND FORD IN THE SAME
PARAGRAPH!!!!  JUST SHOOT ME NOW!!!!AND BE DONE WITH IT!!
meso@pamlico.net
Steve
North Carolina
ICQ#26466860
http://members.xoom.com/DR_OLDS/442index.html
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Andy Mikesell <andymikesell@mediaone.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 8:00 AM
Subject: Snake oils and other engine voodoos


> I was traveling through the airport this weekend and
> picked up a copy of Ch*vy Craft, ... er ... I mean,
> "Car Craft" and saw an ad for an oil additive that
> supposedly helps high mileage engines.
>
> The name was something like Resolve, or Risolve.  I
> don't have the exact name since I felt the mag wasn't
> really worth keeping.  The product claimed to "seal"
> the groves and scratched on the cylinder wall cause by
> many miles.  The main claimed benefit was increased
> compression and overall engine efficiency.
>
> Anyone have any experience with these "snake oils"?  Do
> they help, or do they cause other problems later like
> gumming up the oil pump, etc.
>
> - Andy
> --
> http://people.ne.mediaone.net/andymikesell/Delta88.htm
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 15:35:42 -0400
From: Gene Gilpin <ggilpin@wrallp.com>
Subject: Re: Stormy Weather..... and SOM   [long]

<<BIG HUGE MASSIVE SNIPPAGE>>

SOM & KA wrote:

>On muffler, no evidence of an impact with anything is visible.
>
>Can a backfire do that to a muffler?
>
>What does a backfire feel like from the driver's seat?
>
>Can anyone suggest what may really have happened?
>
>Anyone?
>
<<MORE SNIP ACTION>>

Wow. I read this whole thing, Now my brain is tingling and hear a dull
muted hummmmmmmm and have a slight loss of feeling to my finger tips. 
But. I'll shoot for a little imput here. 

Karl
Did SOM jump time? I once threw a junkyard HEI distributor in a 250
straight six (originally the Omega's) that I had in a 75 Ventura beater.
After a long trip to Greensburg for the day she performed flawlessly. Half
way home, CLUNK! engine just shut down. The distributor seized. Called my
dad who drove 1 1/2 hours with the old distributor. Dropped it in 180 deg
out and started cranking. sputter sputter sputter
BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sounded like a stick
of dynamite going off. I had one leg outside the car and the shockwave
kicked it pretty good. I had a brand new big quiet muffler on the car and
it split down the seam and opened up from the middle to the end and around
the side about 6-8 inches. Just like someone had set a grenade off in a
steel box. Scared my buddy 'bout half to death. He was standing about 10'
from the car and said the concussion hit him and popped his ears. I felt
the shock wave inside the car and my dad felt it from in front. It made him
turn and run a few feet. Brought out the people who's phone I used and
who's house I broke down in front of. Brought out their neighbors too.
Anyone whos ever yanked both triggers on a 12gage double barrel shotgun
without ear protection knows what this backfire sounded like. Anyhow,
yanked the distributor, rotated the engine and set it back in and she fired
right up and ran good enough to drive it home. 
I'd say check SOMs timing. You've definitely got a problem if your
detonating/backfiring like that. Ain't good for SOMs heart either.

Omega Man

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 15:41:28 -0400
From: "steve harris" <meso@pamlico.net>
Subject: Re: Flex Fans (Electric)

Is there a company that makes an electric water pump for the OLds 455?
meso@pamlico.net
Steve
North Carolina
ICQ#26466860
http://members.xoom.com/DR_OLDS/442index.html
 > I will really
> look into going electric water pump also. Perfect
> setup. Turn car off but leave the water pump and the
> fan on. Cools down the radiator plus the cold coolant
> flows to cool the engine as well.
> ===
> Rock-Man's Page http://www.angelfire.com/nd/RockMan
> rockman20@yahoo.com
> 1986 Honda Accord DX And a 1969 Olds Cutlass "S"
> 1985 Honda Big Red 3-wheeler And a 1983 Honda Big Red 3-wheeler (For Sale)
> 1981 John Deer Snowmobile And a 197? Massey Ferguson Snowmobile
> (I like things in pairs! *LOL*)
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 15:42:35 EDT
From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Subject: Great Midwestern Caravan dates set

Hi there!

Well we are off.

And the dates for the so far very small caravan are:

June 18,19, Hampton Inn, Canal St. Lansing, MI.

June 20, reservations not set, likely to be in Belleville, IL, just outside 
St Louis, MO.
A bed and breakfast was considered, but they had a no alcohol policy.

June 21 also not set, but in KC, MO.

June 22 through 25 (26th undecided) in Candlewood Studio Hotel @ 7930 N. 
Stemmons Fwy, Dallas, TX.

Persons interested in meeting should contact Karl privately.

SOM

&KA

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 16:03:31 -0400
From: "steve harris" <meso@pamlico.net>
Subject: Re: I need a cragar mag.

That magnesium has that funny little habit of bursting into BIG white
flames.  I have seen an add in Motortrend mag for a company that restores
old aluminum and alloy rims.  I have now idea of how much they charge tho. I
am guessing,  but I bet it ain't cheap!
meso@pamlico.net
Steve
North Carolina
ICQ#26466860
http://members.xoom.com/DR_OLDS/442index.html
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Randy Geisel <Rocket455@worldnet.att.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 12:58 PM
Subject: Re: I need a cragar mag.


>
> > That rim can "probably" be repaired. I recently saw an article on this
in
> > one of the car rags. It's likely more feasible than trying to find one
of
> > these rims.
>
> Don't use a torch though, it'll ignite. Kinda cool........
>
> Randy
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 15:00:20 -0500
From: "David Rench" <renchd@krause.com>
Subject: 1965 400 4 bbl intake

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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My father and I were rummaging through his parts collection the other =
day looking for a BB cast iron Qjet intake for my 425 and ran across =
what I believe to be a 1965 425 4 barrel intake (the "square bore" =
variety).  The interesting thing is that he had 2, one red and one =
bronze.  They shared the same casting #.  I believe the bronze one was =
probably the original intake from his 65 4-4-2.  Do these motors share =
the same intake?  Is there any value to intake beyond that of any other =
cast iron 4bbl BB intake.  Beyond the 4GC carb, what else will bolt to =
this intake?  Is it the same pattern as a square bore holley or carter?


David Rench


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<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>My father and I were rummaging =
through his parts=20
collection the other day looking for a BB cast iron Qjet intake for my =
425 and=20
ran across what I believe to be a 1965 425 4 barrel intake (the =
&quot;square=20
bore&quot; variety).&nbsp; The interesting thing is that he had 2, one =
red and=20
one bronze.&nbsp; They shared the same casting #.&nbsp; I believe the =
bronze one=20
was probably the original intake from his 65 4-4-2.&nbsp; Do these =
motors share=20
the same intake?&nbsp; Is there any value to intake beyond that of any =
other=20
cast iron 4bbl BB intake.&nbsp; Beyond the 4GC carb, what else will bolt =
to this=20
intake?&nbsp; Is it the same pattern as a square bore holley or=20
carter?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>David =
Rench<BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_005A_01BEAD08.A2279800--

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 16:07:53 EDT
From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Subject: Re: Oooooh! Me! was: Wanna Buy an Engine Plant?

In a message dated 99-06-02 15:11:47 EDT, you write:

<< Me Me Me! Lets do heads too! And steel cranks! Blower Manifolds!
 Heheheheheheheheheheheheh! (laughing insanely). >>

I believe you mean: "MmWah-Hahahahahahahahah!

And you forgot 403's with adequate cooling passages. These would of course be 
made of material as close to the original nickeled steel of the mid 1960's.

Karl think we need to get permission from GM to turn out 5-speed lock-up 
TH400's.

's OK, like anyone else was doing that.

Just think of the demand!

Recall when Hall's Oldsmobile Salvage was going under?
And how it is gone now!

This is an enthusiast's dream! 
To have a part of the action of a facility that does nothing but cast 
reproduction parts!
Think of it!

C'mon!
Subscribers to the olds list number right around 600.
$100 apeice is $60000.
Is that a substantial offer for obsolete equipment or what?

We would need to enlist Jim Chermac for guidance as to what to make first and 
how to get the molds/stamping guides.
But this is something Karl has always wanted.
To have the facility to repro any body panels for big cars (yes advert is for 
~engine~ plant, do not interfere with dreams please).....arrh arrrrrrhh 
arrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Remember this moment always.
You could have been there.
One under the stars with other Oldsmobilers.
As it is the doom of men that they have no $$$.

SOM

&KA

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 15:14:01 CDT
From: "Steve Traynor" <dartster@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Stormy Weather..... and SOM [long]

SOM wrote:
Muffler has buckled and ballooned.
Buckled at the middle, around the vertical cross-section.
Front and back appar to have ballooned slightly, especially front and rear
surfaces?


On muffler, no evidence of an impact with anything is visible.

Can a backfire do that to a muffler?

What does a backfire feel like from the driver's seat?

Can anyone suggest what may really have happened?

Anyone?
- ------------
Karl and SOM,

Well, Ya've been victim to a small gas explosion from your mufflers. I had 
this happen on my baby about 3 years ago while doing some work on the 
ignition. I'm not sure of the details, but it seems that fuel gets dumped 
into the exhaust, and when the car starts running, the fumes explode, just 
as if they were in the block. Now, the muffler not bein as strong as the 
block..it sorta explodes with the air and fuel. Makes a nasty racket and the 
muffler looks like it's been hit from the inside with a Tazmanian Devil.

As I said, I'm not sure of the cause, but I've had the very same thing 
happen to me. Scared the snot out of me, too! Hope this helps some.



Steve
1970 Cutlass S Hardtop
Garland, TX
ICQ# 108901, Use "Olds list" as Request for Authorization

Favorite motivational line, seen at a Renassaince Faire: "The beatings will 
continue until morale is up!"




_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 16:14:34 EDT
From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Subject: Re: Stormy Weather..... and SOM   [long]

In a message dated 99-06-02 15:36:09 EDT, you write:

Wow. I read this whole thing, Now my brain is tingling and hear a dull muted 
hummmmmmmm and have a slight loss of feeling to my finger tips. 

Ah, typical of the faithful readership. Check local drinking water for 
benzenes.

<< I'd say check SOMs timing. >>

Nope, new timing chain last April.

OTOH, need to check final timing with a timing light.

BUT, If we are not mistaken this could coincide with a wet distributor, right?
Hear that the BAM could be a backfire destroying the muffler (kewl!).
If this was moisture-induced, then a spare cap and rotor are in order for 
future contingency. Also perhps a blanket of sorts.......

SOM

&KA

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 16:24:01 -0400
From: "steve harris" <meso@pamlico.net>
Subject: Re: Stormy Weather..... and SOM   [long]

Sorry but I am new to the list.  I ASSUME that SOM has a 455?yes?  If so...
a good snigglefart back fire or two can obliterate a muffler.  I had a 440
mopar(I have to learn to watch my language)  with a bad timming chain that
fragged several mufflers,  before I learned what a timming chain was.  I am
going out on the speculation limb here.  If the pump was not sending enough
fuel it would have created a lean condition,  and BOOOOM!  This is just a
guess.  A wet distributer could have caused some miss fire as well.
meso@pamlico.net
Steve
North Carolina
ICQ#26466860
http://members.xoom.com/DR_OLDS/442index.html
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <KarlAunan@aol.com>
To: <Oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 2:06 PM
Subject: Stormy Weather..... and SOM (clipped)


> Behind... well a Semi Karl thinks, but cannot now recall.
>
> BAM!
> (a sound with force that makes Karl feel it comes from the direction of
the
> transmission)
> (((what?)))
> Something makes SOM shudder.
> Karl imagines a blown TH400, a dropped driveshaft.
> All that is for certain is that there is no more force from engine.
> A lingering peer through fogged windows assures that rain stopped.
> For now.
> OK, gotta find a payphone (got change).
> But first, one last try.
>
> SOM cranks.....
>
> ....................... and fires?
> There is another significant BAM!
> Again, feels/sounds like coming from TH400, or at least from to the right
and
> in front.
> But definitely running now.
> Muffler has buckled and ballooned.
> Buckled at the middle, around the vertical cross-section.
> Front and back appar to have ballooned slightly, especially front and rear
> surfaces?
>
> Further, a morning examination of the see-thru fuel filter showed...no
fuel???
> Fuel is flowing, but only just enough, not enough to pool in filter, it
just
> shoots through to the fuel pump without flooding glass filter housing.
> Can a backfire do that to a muffler?
>
> What does a backfire feel like from the driver's seat?
>
> Can anyone suggest what may really have happened?
>
> Anyone?
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 14:18:03 +0000
From: Cliff Simpson <csimpson@ucalgary.ca>
Subject: Re: Stormy Weather..... and SOM   [long]

My hypothesis:
	1) water infected ignition system quits producing spark
	2) still rotating engine fills exhaust system with flammable air/fuel 
mixture
	3) ignition starts producing spark again igniting fuel in exhaust
	4) Karl hears loud "bang", SOM feels pain in muffler
	5) later moisture shuts ignition down for 1-1/2 hour nap time

This was how it was explained to me by my brother who used to turn his key off
and then on again to produce loud noises when passing girls (to see how high
they would jump, of course).  He said it was timing sensitive, too short and
it's too quiet, too long and you blow the exhaust system apart.

Similar to what a farmer I know had happen (not an urbane legend).  Truck would
not start so he shoots ether onto the cleaner, cranks engine, shoots ether,
cranks, shoots, repeats, etc.  Finally decides the engine is flooded and that
getting rid of the fuel sitting on the pistons would help.  He pulled #1 plug
and stuck a lit cutting torch down there with a very predictable "Ka-boom". 
The outer portion of the muffler was split right open.  Truck never did run
right again he told me.

BTW: same brother showed me how to take an ignition condenser and charge it
up.  Your supposed to toss it into someone else's car at a light or when
passing them and when they go digging around to find it they discharge it. 
This is supposed to be very funny but I never tried it.

> (Epilogue: God exists by two falls to a submission.)
I thought God fails to exist if his existence can be proven.  Maybe a rigged
match?

- -- 
Cliff "A dyslexic agnostic that wonders if doG exists" Simpson
mailto:csimpson@ucalgary.ca
'69 442,400,th400,3.31p (Kermit)
http://www.acs.ucalgary.ca/~csimpson/TheOldsZone.html

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 16:18:39 -0400
From: "Ed Binnix" <comid@jellico.com>
Subject: Re: Oooooh! Me! was: Wanna Buy an Engine Plant?

I was thinking SMW 403's!!!!!  MmWah - Hahahahahahaha (like that?)
Down to the basement I creep to ponder and resurrect those wonderful Holleys
. . . . as the 455 sits on the stand waiting for life . . . MmWah -
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah! . . . .

- -----Original Message-----

>And you forgot 403's with adequate cooling passages. These would of course
be
>made of material as close to the original nickeled steel of the mid 1960's.
>
>Karl think we need to get permission from GM to turn out 5-speed lock-up
>TH400's.
>
>'s OK, like anyone else was doing that.
>
>Just think of the demand!
>
>Recall when Hall's Oldsmobile Salvage was going under?
>And how it is gone now!
>
>This is an enthusiast's dream!
>To have a part of the action of a facility that does nothing but cast
>reproduction parts!
>Think of it!
>
>C'mon!
>Subscribers to the olds list number right around 600.
>$100 apeice is $60000.
>Is that a substantial offer for obsolete equipment or what?
>
>We would need to enlist Jim Chermac for guidance as to what to make first
and
>how to get the molds/stamping guides.
>But this is something Karl has always wanted.
>To have the facility to repro any body panels for big cars (yes advert is
for
>~engine~ plant, do not interfere with dreams please).....arrh arrrrrrhh
>arrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
>
>Remember this moment always.
>You could have been there.
>One under the stars with other Oldsmobilers.
>As it is the doom of men that they have no $$$.
>
>SOM
>
>&KA
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 16:27:49 -0400
From: "steve harris" <meso@pamlico.net>
Subject: Re: Oooooh! Me! was: Wanna Buy an Engine Plant?

I am in! lets make electric water pumps,  and front fenders 70-72 if
possible. and lots of other-like-yaknow-stuff!
meso@pamlico.net
Steve
North Carolina
ICQ#26466860
http://members.xoom.com/DR_OLDS/442index.html
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Ed Binnix <comid@jellico.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 3:07 PM
Subject: Re: Oooooh! Me! was: Wanna Buy an Engine Plant?


> Me Me Me! Lets do heads too! And steel cranks! Blower Manifolds!
> Heheheheheheheheheheheheh! (laughing insanely).
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> >Well, it is in a bad neighborhood, but...
> >
> >Lets see a show of hands.
> >
> >Who wants to invest in an engine plant and build aluminium 425s/455's?
> >
> >Or something?
> >
> >SOM
> >
> >&KA
> >
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 15:24:07 CDT
From: "Steve Traynor" <dartster@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Great Midwestern Caravan dates set

- -----------
June 22 through 25 (26th undecided) in Candlewood Studio Hotel @ 7930 N.
Stemmons Fwy, Dallas, TX.

Persons interested in meeting should contact Karl privately.
- ----------
When ya get to Dallas, gimme a shout! Phone number is 972-272-7650. I work 
about 10 minutes from this place, and I live about 30 minutes away. It's not 
big deal for me to get there. Of course, my baby is dead in the driveway, so 
I'll be in the Monte...

Steve
1970 Cutlass S Hardtop
Garland, TX
ICQ# 108901, Use "Olds list" as Request for Authorization

Favorite motivational line, seen at a Renassaince Faire: "The beatings will 
continue until morale is up!"




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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #1992
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