Please respond to oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.Ca @ INTERNET
To:	oldsmobile-digest@chebucto.ns.Ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #1999


oldsmobile-digest       Saturday, June 5 1999       Volume 01 : Number 1999



RE: Holley ID
Re: 68 442 with a 350...Thanks all
original rivets, indeed!
RE: Flex Fans (Electric)
Re: Do NOT use EZ-OFF!
Re: think I've been ripped off.....
Re: will 68 ht windshiel fit conv.?
Re: Do NOT use EZ-OFF!
Anyone know this 200-4R code?
Re: original rivets, indeed!
Re: Do NOT use EZ-OFF!
Re: original rivets, indeed!
Re: Points type distributor hook up
Oh, THAT detail
Re: original rivets, indeed!
Re: Anyone know this 200-4R code?
Re: Do NOT use EZ-OFF!
Y'r welcome, in advance...
H2O injection
Re: Anyone know this 200-4R code?
Re: original rivets, indeed!
Re: Anyone know this 200-4R code?
Re: H2O injection
Re: original rivets, indeed!
Re: seatbelts (was safety first)
Cheap manuals
68 442 w/350
Big HP, header trix, 442.com
coil wires
68 442 350 ??
BOP show in Ohio
Re: think I've been ripped off.....
Re: original rivets, indeed!
Restoration Pro Advice
Re: will 68 ht windshiel fit conv.?
Re: original rivets, indeed!
Re: sweet 409, Edelbrock, 
Web site re-formatted
Re: Web site re-formatted
Re: original rivets, indeed!
Re: sweet 409, Edelbrock,
Removal/Disconect Sway bar for traction
Carb Spacer (top or bottom power)
Re: 68 442 w/350
Repost of "Speaking of Ripoff" was: think I've been ripped off.....
Re: H2O injection
Re: Cheap manuals
Re: think I've been ripped off.....
Re: sweet 409, Edelbrock,
Re: Removal/Disconect Sway bar for traction
Re: Carb Spacer (top or bottom power)
~Early~ Rochester carbs was: H2O injection

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 17:22:27 -0500
From: "zappa" <zappa@microgear.net>
Subject: RE: Holley ID

According to my Holley book

Carb model # 4011
CFM  800
Primary main Jet 122-64
Secondary main jet  122-90

Universal application, dual fuel inlet, mechanical secondaries, manual
choke, spread bore flange, 800 cfm

And some other stuff like renew kit part numbers.

Stephan
70 GoldOlds
ICQ# 498105

- -----Original Message-----
From:	oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
[mailto:oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca] On Behalf Of Corey Putnam
Sent:	Friday, June 04, 1999 2:32 PM
To:	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject:	Holley ID

  Could someone track down this Holley so I know what it is. I know its
an old style one.

12R-10656B, on the driver side of carb

R84017 and 0942 in the front of carb

Thanks

Corey Putnam
75 H/O W-30(down for awhile)
87 Regal w/Olds 455(Mama`s ride)
H/OCA #0915A
OCC #0208
OCA #031264
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Boulevard/4930

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 18:15:25 -0400
From: "Lacey J" <laceyj@nb.net>
Subject: Re: 68 442 with a 350...Thanks all

Chris
the vertical pad with the vin #'s your looking for is just below and
slightly forward the #1 spark plug where head meets block. It's small. The
#s are only about 1/8" high and not real deep. The pad is about 1 1/2"-2"
long and maybe 3/8"-1/2" wide. If there is any dirt or paint on that pad
whatsoever you'll never know there are numbers there. Clean it real good
with a wire brush. You should find them then. If its the original motor the
number should match the last few numbers of the vin on the dash plate. good
luck dude

Omega Man
(On location in Omegaland)

- ----------
From: chris <chris-aw@IntNet.net>
To: oldsmobile List <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: 68 442 with a 350...Thanks all
Date: Friday, June 04, 1999 9:16 PM

 Thanks to all those that replied to my problem below.  Will be talking
to the guys this weekend and will let you know what transpires.  The
vin# they provided me indicates it is in fact a 68 442 as per OldsFaq on
442.com .  One question thou, I have a "for sure" 68 400 engine in my
garage and I CAN NOT find the "machined vertical pad on the drivers side
front" of the block.. Can someone please tell me exactly where to look??
I've crawled all over this engine and cannot find it.
Thanks again,    Chris

______

I'm looking into buying a 68 442 however the engine is a 350 instead of
a 400. All my information says the 68 442's came only with a 400. They
say they have talked to the original owner  and he says thats the way he

ordered it, a (turnpike cruiser maybe) 2-bbl 350.  If thats the case,
should the oil fill tube match the last 6 digits of the vin# and is it
possible for these numbers to not match and still be the original
engine? How do I confirm this?  Casting # is 395558_2    is this a 350
number? The 400's has the  "C"  heads while this 350 are head castings
of  "5" ? Does this sound right? In this unique case, how do you price
this car?  As another note, the car does not have power breaks.  I have
absoluty no information on the 350 so any help would be apprecieated.
Please email me at:   chris-aw@intnet.net
Thanks

Chris

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 18:22:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: original rivets, indeed!

Peter has a very good point, but there is something else to be considered.
Mainly that 90% of the cars that have been claimed to be "fully restored"
are, in fact, nowhere near factory condition.  In this, I mean that all the
picky
details have been fussed over to make the car exactly as it came off the
showroom floor.  An example:  Look under a "restored" car and see if there
are bolts holding in the upper ball joints or actual rivets as per original.
- --CCR--
================
Oh, man, do I need to post my "Correct Corvette Restoration" article again?!

- --
Chris Witt      *the* Rocket Scientist
Lansing, MI :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu
- --
517-882-9747 eves/wknds to 11pm MI time
Email text only please, No MIME, no attachments, no pictures.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 17:36:14 -0500 
From: Martin Thomas-WLTM07 <Thomas.Martin@motorola.com>
Subject: RE: Flex Fans (Electric)

1987 Firebird TPI 350 has a switch that turns on at 210 degrees or 215, the
305 TPI one turns on a 220.  

I think it just makes the ground connection to finish making the connection
for the fan relay.  So you can us AC to turn on fan, manual override control
and temp switch control.

Thomas Martin
80 Turbo Trans AM 400 Pontiac Power!
85 Cutlass Supreme Rocket 350 CCC
91 Bonneville LE 3800 Buick Power!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 19:08:25 EDT
From: GregA80@aol.com
Subject: Re: Do NOT use EZ-OFF!

I'm thinkin either cheap paint, or he left the eazy off on too long....any 
opinions?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 19:23:00 -0400
From: Gene Gatti <jerseydevil@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: think I've been ripped off.....

Hi John,
   First off, I think Meridan, CT sounds familiar. I think someone else
mentioned a bad trader in that town before? Another thing to consider is the
possibility that the seller lost your contact info and had a hard drive
crash at the same time. Or the seller could have taken ill. I've had both of
these scenarios happen to me and all I'm saying is that it's a possibility.
Good luck,
Gene

>
>Any listees live near Meridan, CT?  If anyone does, and might be 
>willing to pay a visit to the seller, please reply to me privately.
>
>Have a nice weekend, all.
>
>-John Carri
>'72 Supreme  (was supposed to get headers soon, but may not)
>'73 RoadRunner
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 19:32:35 EDT
From: Mrmagic442@aol.com
Subject: Re: will 68 ht windshiel fit conv.?

 the convertible winshield is different. from the coupe and hardtop. I 
probably have a warehouse in your area and can let you pick one up there no 
freight involved for $149.00 and since I am on Oregon there is no tax.

               Jeff   Windshield Magic       1-800-560-8061
                       611 Ivy Street 
                       Junction City   OR
                                         97448

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 19:37:30 -0400
From: Gene Gatti <jerseydevil@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Do NOT use EZ-OFF!

Hi Guys and Gals,
   Regarding EZ-Off Oven Cleaner it has many other uses than ... well
cleaning ovens! I used to build plastic models and whenever the need to
strip a botched paint job arose I would retrieve my trusty can of EZ-Off and
liberally spray the model, seal in a plastic bag for a half hour or so and
then scrub with a tooth brush. The paint would come off pretty easily. Then
a few years later I took up gun-collecting and found that EZ-Off was an
excellent way to degrease the wooden stocks on old military guns. See,
armies store guns packed in grease and it soaks into the wood making the job
of refinishing nearly impossible without getting the grease and oil out. A
few applications of EZ-Off and a scrub brush would dry the wood out nicely.
Then I could stain and/or seal the wood to make it presentable. 
   So in summary, DO NOT use EZ-Off anywhere near paint that you like. BTW:
I'm referring to the original formula type. Perhaps the new enviormentally
friendly stuff works differently. 
   To keep this post Olds related I once stripped the paint off of a 1/25
scale Cutlass funny car :-)
Gene

At 07:08 PM 6/4/99 EDT, you wrote:
>I'm thinkin either cheap paint, or he left the eazy off on too long....any 
>opinions?
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 19:49:47 -0700
From: Greg Pruett <gregp@rbnet.com>
Subject: Anyone know this 200-4R code?

I'm looking at an 84 monte carlo SS in the junkyard and I can't figure
out the transmission code.  It's "CQ".  

Does anyone know anything about this transmission?  Is it the high
performance model or just a run of the mill 2004R?  

Thanks

Greg Pruett
72 Vista Cruiser
67 Cutlass Supreme
80 Cutlass Calais
73 98 LS

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 01:42:23 +0200
From: Trond-Jarle Pedersen <olds69@online.no>
Subject: Re: original rivets, indeed!

Chris Brown Witt wrote:
> ================
> Oh, man, do I need to post my "Correct Corvette Restoration" article again?!
> 



I remember that one
it is VERY funny and mostly true (unfortuently)

Trond-Jarle Pedersen
69 F-85

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 19:43:09 EDT
From: GregA80@aol.com
Subject: Re: Do NOT use EZ-OFF!

I dunno all, my uncle bought that truck, and he watched the guy use the EZ 
OFF to take the company lettering off, and I see the truck everyday, and it 
didn't hurt the paint at all....so there seem to be some discrepencies 
here.....so who's using the cheap paint to paint their classic cars? :-)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 07:57:41 -0700
From: "Peter Berusch" <berusch@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: original rivets, indeed!

>Chris Brown Witt wrote:
>> ================
>> Oh, man, do I need to post my "Correct Corvette Restoration" article
again?!
>>
>

I used to play with those guys.  Those guys are dealing with plastic
Chevrolets and pretending they really have something.  Talk about
anal-retentive !  Peter.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 20:35:33 -0400
From: "Dave Cullen" <david.cullen@snet.net>
Subject: Re: Points type distributor hook up

>List members,
>I am replacing the computer controlled distributor and carb with an old
>Points type distributor and Holley that I had laying around.

Seems like a step backwards to me, but...whatever floats yer boat.

>Anyway, my
>Chiltons book shows a wiring diagram for a points type distributor as
>follows:
>--Wire from distributor goes to (-) side of coil

Correct. That comes from the points.

>--Two wires attach to the (+) side of coil. One (pink) goes to Ignition

The pink is actually a 1.35 ohm "resistor" wire, designed to reduce voltage
to the coil during normal running. Without the resistance, some coils will
run hot and points won't last long.

> and one (yellow)goes to starter solenoid.
>My question is which terminal of the solenoid (+) or (-) does the yellow
>wire connect to?

Neither - it goes to the "ign" terminal on the starter solenoid. It puts
full battery voltage on the coil during cranking.

If your starter solenoid doesn't have that terminal, you can use a coil that
has an internal resistor, and doesn't require the resistor wire. You suffer
with lousy spark on cold mornings when the battery is weak.

Or...use an auxilliary relay that powers the yellow wire during cranking.

Or...use an older starter.

Or...a baby's arm holding an apple.


drc

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 20:40:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: Oh, THAT detail

>I have a 84 307 Y code engine with cam headers RPM intake and a 3.73 w/
posi
>I am planning on adding a 350 in the spring of 2000 looking to get about
>375 - 400 hp  Right now it runs faster than a H/O 442 or SS (stock)
>
>Kevin Grant
>80 Cutlass Supreme
>============\
>Really, 1.5 HP/CID from a 307?
>Must be Canadian HP or something..
===================
OOOOOOPS
My error, I missed that detail about the *350* motor.

Duh, that makes the HP target MUCH more believeable.

- --
Chris Witt      *the* Rocket Scientist
Lansing, MI :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu
- --
517-882-9747 eves/wknds to 11pm MI time
Email text only please, No MIME, no attachments, no pictures.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 20:41:09 -0400
From: "Dave Cullen" <david.cullen@snet.net>
Subject: Re: original rivets, indeed!

>An example:  Look under a "restored" car and see if there
>are bolts holding in the upper ball joints or actual rivets as per
original.
>--CCR--
>================
>Oh, man, do I need to post my "Correct Corvette Restoration" article
again?!
>
>--
>Chris Witt      *the* Rocket Scientist



NO, PLEASE, not that! I haven't been able to find the original 1985 air for
my Delta's tires yet.

drc

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 21:01:25 EDT
From: DYeager535@aol.com
Subject: Re: Anyone know this 200-4R code?

In a message dated 6/4/99 4:42:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time, gregp@rbnet.com 
writes:

<< I'm looking at an 84 monte carlo SS in the junkyard and I can't figure
 out the transmission code.  It's "CQ".  
 
 Does anyone know anything about this transmission?  Is it the high
 performance model or just a run of the mill 2004R?  
 
 Thanks
 
 Greg Pruett >>

	Are the codes the "same" as I think they are on earlier 400's and 
350's, in which the "C" stands for Chevy, and the later in the alphabet the 
last letter, the "stronger" the tranny? (ie "Z" strong, and "A"  weak?)  
Curious as I will be looking for one of these someday soon also.  Dorian

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 21:11:25 EDT
From: Bbymks4@aol.com
Subject: Re: Do NOT use EZ-OFF!

             I have used oven cleaner  to take off Company lettering on my ' 
89 Chevy
       1/2  ton truck. It was on both doors, and it covered about 50% of the 
doors. The
       result was that it worked great, it did not damage the paint, and you 
can't even 
       tell there was lettering there to begin with. I started scrubbing 
after about one
        minute, and I didn't stop until it all came off. Go figure......
        Steve.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 21:12:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: Y'r welcome, in advance...

hy not just get the filler neck?

NAL has 22 different ones.

800-428-4300
=============
Ayep, and who was it that introduced all y'all to NAL??

How gauche, sorry, my ego needed a stroke.
- --
Chris Witt      *the* Rocket Scientist
Lansing, MI :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu
- --
517-882-9747 eves/wknds to 11pm MI time
Email text only please, No MIME, no attachments, no pictures.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 21:17:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: H2O injection

What happened was that the short tube was not submerged in water because it
didn't reach that far. The vacuum from the engine sucked air from that jar.
The air that came in to replace it had to come through the long tube which
WAS submerged in the water. This created a bubbling in the bottle. The air
going into the engine was laden with moisture. It's important to hook up to
the correct tube or you will suck a steady stream of water into the engine.
Can you say "hydrolock?"
==============
Nah... doubt that the piddly amt of water sucked thru a needle even if 100%
water would hydro lock an Olds V8. I mean, I have POURED ATF &c chemicals into
motors with quite a fat stream while running with no ill effects. Sometimes to
my chagrin.

I reckon in the winter you'd want to use Olds-approved.. what was that name?...
Liqui-jet?  Jetfire fuel? Anyhow, water with enough alcohol to prevent
freezing.


- --
Chris Witt      *the* Rocket Scientist
Lansing, MI :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu
- --
517-882-9747 eves/wknds to 11pm MI time
Email text only please, No MIME, no attachments, no pictures.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 21:55:37 -0700
From: Greg Pruett <gregp@rbnet.com>
Subject: Re: Anyone know this 200-4R code?

DYeager535@aol.com wrote:
> 
>         Are the codes the "same" as I think they are on earlier 400's and
> 350's, in which the "C" stands for Chevy, and the later in the alphabet the
> last letter, the "stronger" the tranny? (ie "Z" strong, and "A"  weak?)
> Curious as I will be looking for one of these someday soon also.  Dorian

Well, kinda but not really. :)  There's really no logical order to the
codes.  The codes to look for (as listed in the Olds FAQ) are:

KZF(442&H/O) CZF (Monte SS)  BRF (Turbo Regals) and OZ (H/O).  

The low performance codes listed in the FAQ are OM(Die-sell) OG (307) BY
(V6) and AA & AP (Caddy) 

As far as I know, there were only two flavors of 2004R; high performance
and low performance.  The high performance ones are the best since they
have better servos, governor, and a few other goodies.  The regular ones
haver very mushy shifts and aren't very good without the
high-performance stuff.  Even a shift kit doesn't do much for the
lethargic 1-2 shift in a standard 2004R.  That's why I'm being so picky
about buying this transmission.  I don't need it if it doesn't have the
high performance parts, I've already got a good OG core....Bolted behind
the 350 in my Vista Cruiser.

I'm guessing the "CQ" transmission in it is just a standard monte carlo
slushbox. :(  I'd like to know for sure though.

Greg Pruett
72 Vista Cruiser
67 Cutlass Supreme
80 Cutlass Calais
73 98 LS

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 21:52:51 -0400
From: Mark Hahn <mahahn@fuse.net>
Subject: Re: original rivets, indeed!

maybe for the benefit of those of us that have not seen it.......

Mark

> >Oh, man, do I need to post my "Correct Corvette Restoration" article
> again?!
> >

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 21:54:38 EDT
From: DYeager535@aol.com
Subject: Re: Anyone know this 200-4R code?

In a message dated 6/4/99 6:48:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time, gregp@rbnet.com 
writes:

<<  Even a shift kit doesn't do much for the
 lethargic 1-2 shift in a standard 2004R.  That's why I'm being so picky
 about buying this transmission.  I don't need it if it doesn't have the
 high performance parts, I've already got a good OG core....Bolted behind
 the 350 in my Vista Cruiser.
 
 I'm guessing the "CQ" transmission in it is just a standard monte carlo
 slushbox. :(  I'd like to know for sure though.
 
 Greg Pruett >>

	Greg, you CAN buy the parts to completely change a cruddy shifting 
200 or 700 into a GN/Corvette tranny. Mainly, I believe, valve body valves 
and springs, governor, and servo/spring. There may be more, or I may have my 
facts a little skewed, but if anything else is different internally on the 
200-4R, it would be hardened parts (likely to be in the "newer" trannies 
anyways, no matter what the code) or more clutches. These would have no 
affect on shift performance, so wouldn't HAVE to be changed, but would affect 
longevity. I'm sure a GN site (perhaps turboregal.com?) can tell you the 
different parts by GM part number even. And I highly doubt that the valve 
body casting itself is different, as some GN guys believe.   Dorian

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 22:13:10 -0400
From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@nbn.net>
Subject: Re: H2O injection

Chris Brown Witt wrote:

> I reckon in the winter you'd want to use Olds-approved.. what was that 
name?...
> Liqui-jet?

No.

> Jetfire fuel?

No, no.

Turbo-Rocket Fluid!  

There's a tech tip about it in this month's JWO.  Apparently the
Turbo-Rocket Fluid tank in Jetfires was under pressure when the motor
what shut off and Fluid would seep through the metering valves overnight
and enter the combustion chambers.  This "could cause a hydrostatic lock
to occur which could bend a connecting rod" but still allow the motor to
start.  Speeds in excess of 45 would cause the bent rod to break and
distroy the engine.  Olds offered an external de-pressure valve
modification kit to fix the problem, but according to a Service Guild
article from late '64, some of these de-pressure valves were
defective...

(A simpler solution was to crack the cap on the tank after turning off
the motor.)

I have to admit that I wasn't following this thread, so I don't know if
this relates or not, just thought it was interesting that I had just
read this article and Chris brought up the Turbo-Rocket Fluid.

Just a little Oldsmo-trivia.  You never know when someone might ask you
about this...

Paul
- -- 
Paul Hartlieb
Myerstown, PA
mailto:plh@nbn.net

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 22:16:45 EDT
From: LOUS69W30@aol.com
Subject: Re: original rivets, indeed!

In a message dated 6/4/99 7:59:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
berusch@mindspring.com writes:

<< 
 >Chris Brown Witt wrote:
 >> ================
 >> Oh, man, do I need to post my "Correct Corvette Restoration" article
 again?!
 >>
  >>
Come on Chris where is it.  I've only been on the list for a few months so I 
never saw it.  Give it up.

Lou Principe
69 442 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 15:57 
From: "John Carri" <jcarri@alesis1.usa.com>
Subject: Re: seatbelts (was safety first)

>> What is this other fastening system you mentioned.  The one above 
>>with the two belts to one buckle?  What strainge vooodoo is that?  I 
>>am very interested in that set up.
_____________________________________

>I remember this (vaguely)... the shoulder belt didn't have the usual 
>male buckle, but a connector that let it hook into the lap belt that 
>(IIRC) had a different end on it than the usual. I dunno if it was 
>adjustable for length or not...
>
>Greg Beaulieu
______________________________________

My '72 Supreme has the system being discussed here. The shoulder belt 
has no reel, but it does have a sliding doohickey for adjusting the 
length. As Greg describes, the metal end of the shoulder belt hooks 
into the metal end of the lap belt, which itself hooks into its 
receiver over in the centre of the car.

This may be an improvement over two entirely separate belts, but its 
still a big pain in the *%@@. The shoulder belt tends to come unhooked 
from the lap belt while you are struggling to buckle that one, and due 
to the way things overlap, you cannot hook the two belts together 
after you have buckled up the lap belt, so you have to start over. 

What I most dislike about these seatbelts is first that if adequately
tight, they stop me reaching the parking brake release, the radio, the 
sun-visors, and my sunglasses on the dash, and second, the 
spring-loaded lap belt snugs itself tighter by one rachet click every 
time the car goes over a bump and my body moves momentarily deeper 
into the seat cushions. That means that every half an hour or so on a 
long drive, the lap belt begins to almost cut me in half at the waist, 
and I have to unbuckle it, let it reel in, reel it back out and 
rebuckle it.

I have a pair of donor seatbelts from a Nissan pickup truck that have 
inertia-reels and that I think might be adaptable to my Olds, but if I 
succed I'd be very reluctant to post anything to a mailing list for 
legal liability reasons. You can just see the lawyers rubbing their 
hands together thinking about this one, some guy getting injured by 
following someone elses ideas on modifying his seatbelts in a fashion 
not approved of by the Fed and DOT!! Omygosh!!

- -John Carri
'72 Supreme  (with "cut me in half" seatbelts)
'73 RoadRunner (with the exact same problem!)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 22:44:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: Cheap manuals

Acrtually, if you'd like the genuine thing for a really great price, go
to:

        www.factoryautomanuals.com
The owners name is Dan Bowers and my husband just got some stuff from
him. He's very happy with what he got and highly recommends him. He got
a FSM from him for our '93 9C1 Caprice for $33. He chatted with Dan and
says he's very helpful and reliable.
===================
Dang, that is cheap. I am tired of looking at this stack. Folks say they will
take some, then check never comes... MAKE AN OFFER folks. How about $10 for a
'68 Fisher Body Manual? Right now I would do that.

- --
Chris Witt      *the* Rocket Scientist
Lansing, MI :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu
- --
517-882-9747 eves/wknds to 11pm MI time
Email text only please, No MIME, no attachments, no pictures.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 22:51:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: 68 442 w/350

I'm looking into buying a 68 442 however the engine is a 350 instead of
a 400. All my information says the 68 442's came only with a 400. They
say they have talked to the original owner  and he says thats the way he
ordered it, a (turnpike cruiser maybe) 2-bbl 350.  If thats the case,
should the oil fill tube match the last 6 digits of the vin# and is it
possible for these numbers to not match and still be the original
engine? How do I confirm this?  Casting # is 395558_2    is this a 350
number? The 400's has the  "C"  heads while this 350 are head castings
of  "5" ? Does this sound right? In this unique case, how do you price
this car?  As another note, the car does not have power breaks.  I have
absoluty no information on the 350 so any help would be apprecieated.
Please email me at:   chris-aw@intnet.net
Thanks
=============
Oil fill tube # is engine sequence number, not related to other numbers except
by coincidence. Please DO check that VIN derivative on the pad already
mentioned; if it matches VIN plate last 6 digits, and VIN starts "344..." then
that is one to snap up [cheap after bithing about the "non-correct" engine!]
and save.

The OFT number will help identify the year of issue of the motor- first digit
will match last digit of year: 8100123 on OFT makes it a '68 motor. 'Course
swapping OFT's has been done.



- --
Chris Witt      *the* Rocket Scientist
Lansing, MI :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu
- --
517-882-9747 eves/wknds to 11pm MI time
Email text only please, No MIME, no attachments, no pictures.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 22:57:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: Big HP, header trix, 442.com

Start with a 300hp engine:
"Bolt-on" 30 hp with an intake!
... another 50 with ram induction!
... another 200 with nitrous!
... another 15 with fel-pro!
... another 200 with a blower!
... another 10 with a hi-po fuel filter!
... another 40 with alum heads!
... another 20 with a flex-fan!
... another 15 with an electric fan!
... another 20 with a hi-po fuel pump!

Alright!  I'm at 900 hp with "simple" upgrades.  Yahoooo!
===========
don't forget that those ads say "up to" not "at least" that much HP gain. Note
that zero and in fact negative numbers are included in the phrase "up to"...
all they are guaranteeing is that your HP gain will not exceed that amount. So,
don't get too happy just yet.


In comparison, your Olds should be easy.  Might be a good idea
to have a friend with you as it's kind of hard to hold the header
from the bottom and get the bolts started at the same time.
=============
I have put forth this trick before: slit the header rear bolt hole rearward or
downward. Use a stud on that hole. Hang header on that stud until other
fasteners are secured. Voila. That, and the removeable dipstick tube trick
helped a LOT in working on that 78 Cutlass race car.



BTW, listed at Byrcemans on Friday and sold it on Tuesday.  Definitely a
good way to sell a reasonably priced car.
==============
Please, folks, when you sell stuff via 442.com express your appreciation to
Bryce in the form of a Bonus Check to him. Look at what a Hemming's ad costs!

- --
Chris Witt      *the* Rocket Scientist
Lansing, MI :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu
- --
517-882-9747 eves/wknds to 11pm MI time
Email text only please, No MIME, no attachments, no pictures.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 23:02:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: coil wires

The yellow wire is the resistor wire and it would thus go to the R terminal
on the solenoid, your car wont have this wire and that is no big deal
because you dont really need it, it just shunted a portion of the current
back to ground unless the points are closed it is not necessary to function.
- - ----- Original Message -----
============
I am sorry, hate to offend, but this reflects an astonishing lack of
understanding of the points type ignition system. Please mail me for the real
story.

- --
Chris Witt      *the* Rocket Scientist
Lansing, MI :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu
- --
517-882-9747 eves/wknds to 11pm MI time
Email text only please, No MIME, no attachments, no pictures.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 23:29:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: 68 442 350 ??

Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 18:16:29 -0700
From: chris <chris-aw@IntNet.net>
Subject: 68 442 with a 350...Thanks all

 Thanks to all those that replied to my problem below.  Will be talking
to the guys this weekend and will let you know what transpires.  The
vin# they provided me indicates it is in fact a 68 442 as per OldsFaq on
442.com .  One question thou, I have a "for sure" 68 400 engine in my
garage and I CAN NOT find the "machined vertical pad on the drivers side
front" of the block.. Can someone please tell me exactly where to look??
I've crawled all over this engine and cannot find it.
Thanks again,    Chris
===================
Well, the face of the vin derivative surface is vertical, but it's wider than
tall, about 2" wide [fore-aft] and maybe 1/2" up-down.

Look at motor from left side. #1 cyl on your left, #7 on your right. Imagine no
heads on the motor. Imagine tiny skier coming down block deck surface [head
gasket- slipperier- Teflon!]. He's at the far front edge of the head gasket.
Just as he extreme-jumps off the edge of the deck surface, he looks behind him,
to see.... the VIN derivative. Typicaly quite grungy, scrape, wire brush, carb
cleaner, sandpaper can oft bring out the old numbers. Sometimes rusted too bad.

I'm no KA, but I try.
- --
Chris Witt      *the* Rocket Scientist
Lansing, MI :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu
- --
517-882-9747 eves/wknds to 11pm MI time
Email text only please, No MIME, no attachments, no pictures.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 23:36:52 -0400
From: J&T <tjf26@gte.net>
Subject: BOP show in Ohio

Is there anyone in Ohio going to the Buick, Olds, Pontiac show and swap
meet  on Sunday at the old Carnies on route 42 in Brunswick, Laural
Square shopping center. Starts at 0900 till around 3:00. Just wondering.

                                                               Joe

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 20:39:25 -0700
From: tarzan@foxinternet.net
Subject: Re: think I've been ripped off.....

Sorry to hear about your ripp off......that really sucks...espesially from
a fellow oldsmobile fan.

Food for thought! next time anyone out there wants to buy or sell
something over the  net have it shipped c.o.d. that way the
shipper(ups,fed ex) picks up the cash from the buyer and sends it directly
to the seller. you can also track it over the net as well.
DAN

John Carri wrote:

> I'm in the middle of my first Internet purchase, and I think I've been
> had. Another Olds listee posted that he had some headers for sale, I
> sent him the money two weeks ago, now he won't reply to my emails and
> I haven't received the headers. It's always possible that the guy is
> sick or his computer broke down or something, but I don't have a very
> good feeling about this. If the seller is reading this, and there's an
> explanation, I'd appreciate an email message from you.
>
> I'm going to wait a week, if I haven't received the headers nor heard
> from the seller by then I will post the sellers name and the mailing
> address he gave me on this list, so that no one else gets cheated out
> of their money.
>
> I paid by postal money order, sent certified mail with a return
> receipt, so I know the guy got my money. Do I have any legal recourse
> through the post office? This should come under mail fraud, right?
>
> Any listees live near Meridan, CT?  If anyone does, and might be
> willing to pay a visit to the seller, please reply to me privately.
>
> Have a nice weekend, all.
>
> -John Carri
> '72 Supreme  (was supposed to get headers soon, but may not)
> '73 RoadRunner

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 23:51:33 -0500
From: "Glenn Cory" <olds350@usit.net>
Subject: Re: original rivets, indeed!

<Lurk mode off>

OK.  Curiosity killed the cat.  Went searching and I think this must be the
critter.  Good stuff.

http://www.vettenet.org/vettjoke.html

Yikes.  A link to a Corvette web site on the Olds mailing list?  How could I
stoop so low.

Hanging head in shame.

Glenn
Rallye 350 (the parts that aren't rusty that is)

<Lurk mode on>

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Hahn <mahahn@fuse.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Friday, June 04, 1999 8:52 PM
Subject: Re: original rivets, indeed!


> maybe for the benefit of those of us that have not seen it.......
>
> Mark
>
> > >Oh, man, do I need to post my "Correct Corvette Restoration" article
> > again?!
> > >
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 00:58:23 -0400
From: "person" <vbdeveloper@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Restoration Pro Advice

To all,
    I've been toying with an idea of having a pro restore my car. It really
does not need much, but body needs work. Rust work, paint etc. Maybe the
convertible top. I may be persuaded to ship the car, some distance,  to
someone who will come highly recommended. I live in Florida, so East Coast
is preferred. If someone may be interested, or knows someone who is "REAL
GOOD", let me know. Please reply privately.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+
+
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
VBDeveloper@worldnet.att.net

                                       =
                                           =
                                                =
==================================
'69 Olds Ninety-Eight 'Topless Bubba'       =====
====666=================999============
        666                                  999

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 01:07:44 EDT
From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Subject: Re: will 68 ht windshiel fit conv.?

In a message dated 99-06-04 16:47:23 EDT, you write:

<< Anybody knows how expensive the shipping for a piece of glass this big 
 may be? >>

Before or after you take delivery of the fragments?

Try to get locally if possible.

The major carriers don't have such a good record for shipping  windsheilds.

SOM

&KA

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 22:18:28 PDT
From: John McGowen <jdmcgowen@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: original rivets, indeed!

Well you forgot one other thing in order to make the car completely 
original....
Well being that factory workers handle the cars as they are produced, they 
leave finger prints.  Now that would be a hard thing to restore.  Probably a 
good number of these people are dead now, and It would take tremendous 
research to find them.  I guess you could dig up the bodies though and try 
to get a finger print that way, but your biggest problem would be the ones 
that were cremated.
Sorry, I just had to let you know that

John


>From: "Glenn Cory" <olds350@usit.net>
>Reply-To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
>Subject: Re: original rivets, indeed!
>Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 23:51:33 -0500
>
><Lurk mode off>
>
>OK.  Curiosity killed the cat.  Went searching and I think this must be the
>critter.  Good stuff.
>
>http://www.vettenet.org/vettjoke.html
>
>Yikes.  A link to a Corvette web site on the Olds mailing list?  How could 
>I
>stoop so low.
>
>Hanging head in shame.
>
>Glenn
>Rallye 350 (the parts that aren't rusty that is)
>
><Lurk mode on>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Mark Hahn <mahahn@fuse.net>
>To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
>Sent: Friday, June 04, 1999 8:52 PM
>Subject: Re: original rivets, indeed!
>
>
> > maybe for the benefit of those of us that have not seen it.......
> >
> > Mark
> >
> > > >Oh, man, do I need to post my "Correct Corvette Restoration" article
> > > again?!
> > > >
> >
> >
>


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 01:29:56 EDT
From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Subject: Re: sweet 409, Edelbrock, 

In a message dated 99-06-04 16:54:08 EDT, you write:

<< It chucks the Toro around pretty good.  My only problem 
 now is avoiding the premature death of the TH325 4L (background 
 maniacal laughter).  Methinks a 10,000 GVW trans cooler project 
 is next.  >>

Congrats on your powered-up Toro and bored over 403 (even more compression, 
yikes!)!
But, uh.... don't you mean a TH425 ?
The one that bolts to the back of the engine any lies alongside the engine?

Thought that TH325 were only found in limited applications for RWD.

If a 425, you should not have problems as long as well maintained.

Also, as you live in Winnipeg, a tranny cooler could cause problems, 
particularly in cold weather, when it is beneficial that the tranny line 
passes through a warm radiator.

As far as intake, do not recall what Year Toro you gots, but the first 
several years of Toro used low-rise intakes for hood clearance that did not 
flow as well as they could have.
You mention a 307 being original, so cant really guess what your current 
intake is.

Although, permit us to suggest a low-buck bolt on that flows better than the 
W-31 intake?
(( some consultation, and then...))

Hmmm... was gonna suggest the A4 aluminum intake, but a Toro with original 
307 is likely to already have it from 1980-85.

Try this one on for size, its lightweight, and flows good.

Get expensive later.

SOM

&KA

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 01:24:10 -0500 (EST)
From: hurst455@webtv.net (Corey Putnam)
Subject: Web site re-formatted

  Hey everyone, I just finished a major overhaul on my site. I`ve added
a parts for sale page. There`s not much in it but you might find
something you can use.
   I also added a page on the forgotten Hurst/Oldsmobiles(73, 74, 75 and
79) and although I covered everything I could find, I`m sure there`s
plenty more info out there. If you have any laying around shoot it off
to me if you don`t mind.
    I`m also asking everyone who has one of these H/O to please email me
a picture and it`ll get put in, w/name of owner included, of coarse.
I haven`t found much on the web concerning these cars and I want to
build a good site for information on them.   
 Check it out and let me know what you think (and I can handle
CONSTRUCTIVE criticism) thanks.

Corey Putnam
75 H/O W-30(down for awhile)
87 Regal w/Olds 455(Mama`s ride)
H/OCA #0915A
OCC #0208
OCA #031264
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Boulevard/4930

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 03:03:21 EDT
From: HURSTOLDZ@aol.com
Subject: Re: Web site re-formatted

Forgotton Hurst/Olds????    


Who could ever forget ANY Hurst/Olds??????


Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee wiz!

: )

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 02:10:08 -0700
From: Ben Markert <radu@ciris.net>
Subject: Re: original rivets, indeed!

At 09:52 PM 6/4/99 -0400, you wrote:
>maybe for the benefit of those of us that have not seen it.......
>
>Mark
>
>> >Oh, man, do I need to post my "Correct Corvette Restoration" article
>> again?!
>> >
>
Please do post, or atleast send it to me privately. Thank you, in advance,
either way.

Ben Markert aka Radu(online)
radu@ciris.net

Olds forevah!! '
	Lila: 68 Cutlass "S", 350-4bbl, TH350


THM Homepage: HTTP://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Park/5290/ 	"Soon 
to
be my New and Improved website about all things Me!"


The Xen Page: HTTP://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Hills/2050/

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 03:23:43 -0400
From: "Thomas P. Smith" <smithtp@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: sweet 409, Edelbrock,

> Q: I've heard controversial discussions about the value of the power
> advantage with the low-end Edelbrock Olds SB aluminum manifold.
>  Although this thread has likely been beaten to hammered, what is
> the HP/torque gain I could expect with this bolt-on?

Unfortunately, the figures Edelbrock publishes assume the usage of their
"Performer Package," which includes their cam. I think they even assume
their headers are used, too.  Sorry I don't have the catalog in front of
me to give the exact numbers, but you can find them here:

http://www.edelbrock.com

As for the gains of the manifold alone, I put a post on Edelbrock's BBS a
few months ago asking that very question and never received an answer.
I'm not tossing out indictments against Edelbrock or anything, just
stating the facts.  As near as I can tell, most members of the list here
tend to think the actual gains of the manifold alone are marginal, with
the chief benefit being reduced weight.

- --
Thomas P. Smith
  1971 Cutlass S: 350 Rocket/TH350/Edelbrock OL4B/Q-Jet/
                  dual exhaust/Mallory Unilite Conversion.
  1988 Plymouth Voyager 3.0:  Ummm...Let me think of something.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 02:52:10 -0600
From: "Igor Todorovic" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Removal/Disconect Sway bar for traction

I am under the impression that removing or simply disconnecting the front
sway bar significantly improves traction.  Is this so or not?  If it does
little, I don't want to do it but if it helps I am willing.  I realize that
handling licks after this is done but I will get to the track and back.  I
went today to the track and my traction licked so bad, I was running high
14s with 2.8 and 2.6 60 foot times and lousy traction 1/2 way down the
track.  I was so frustration not to be able to do anything about it.  1/4
throttle launches are fine, but 1/4 throttle down the 330 feet BITES.  See
my Carb Spacer post for more.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 02:58:34 -0600
From: "Igor Todorovic" <igor455@home.com>
Subject: Carb Spacer (top or bottom power)

I put a heat dissipater (heat shield) on my car today to help prevent carb
fuel boil (worked so far).  However, with a few gaskets and some plates,
this thing acts like a carb spacer boosting the carb about 1/2 inch up.  My
question is does this improve top or bottom end power.  The car seemed
stronger at the bottom end as my traction absolutely sucked today but it did
not seem as capable (or at the least, no change) at the top end.  MPH was
down by about 1 or 1/2 MPH, depending on run.  I want more power up top,
less on bottom.  Thanks.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 06:33:29 EDT
From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Subject: Re: 68 442 w/350

In a message dated 99-06-04 22:52:46 EDT, you write:

<< I'm looking into buying a 68 442 however the engine is a 350 instead of a 
400. All my information says the 68 442's came only with a 400. They say they 
have talked to the original owner  and he says thats the way he ordered it, a 
(turnpike cruiser maybe) 2-bbl 350.  If thats the case, should the oil fill 
tube match the last 6 digits of the vin# and is it possible for these numbers 
to not match and still be the original
 engine? How do I confirm this?  Casting # is 395558_2  is this a 350 number? 
The 400's has the  "C"  heads while this 350 are head castings of  "5" ? Does 
this sound right? In this unique case, how do you price this car? >>

OK, aside from their say so, what makes YOU think its a 4 4 2 car?

1968's 4 4 2 was a performance ~model~, not a performance option.
(Uh, right Mr Witt??)

According to the Standard Catalogue of Oldsmobile; standard equipment 
includes special emblems, a louvered hood, paint stripe, HD springs & special 
shock absorbers (will be hard to tell now),and a stabilizer bar.
Standard.

If you will forgive a crashing dive in logic, that means no stabilizer bar, 
no 4 4 2.

Further, according to "Setting the Pace", which lists Oldsmobile production 
numbers, a whopping ZERO 4 4 2 cars had a 350cid engine.

<<  In this unique case, how do you price this car? >>

Unless the VIN reads 34477.... , 34487.... , or 34467... , or any other 344 
code, it is a Cutlass, $1200-$1600 if it runs good, depending on body 
condition.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 06:51:17 EDT
From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Subject: Repost of "Speaking of Ripoff" was: think I've been ripped off.....

In a message dated 99-06-04 19:26:01 EDT, you write:

<<   First off, I think Meridan, CT sounds familiar. I think someone else
 mentioned a bad trader in that town before?  >>

Well, in the general area, anyhow:

- ----------------------------
I just talked to this guy about 2 months ago about a 70 SX that he was parting
out. He was high and real questionable about the ralley dash, glad i didn't
buy it. Chris

CHRIS SOMMERVILLE 
69 442 SC
84 H/O

 >that name sounded familiar, so I checked on my "book of contacts"
 >
 >I got a call from a guy named Stefan DeSimone, about an H/O air cleaner
 >he had.  Sounded weird when he started talking about "plastic" parts on
 >the shroud.  Needless to say, I didn't send him any money.
 >
 >he listed a number of 401-455-9425 and his 'parent's" address of
 >117 Boston Post Rd No. 283
 >Waterford, CT 06385
 >
 >Hope they nail him
 >
 >Mike Rothe
 >

And then there was Andy Green's followup of how his parents live at a Mail 
Boxes EtCetera.........

The puke in question is not known to be a listmember.
But it is not impossible.

SOM

&KA

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 07:56:13 -0400
From: "Edward Binnix" <comid@jellico.com>
Subject: Re: H2O injection

Good point.
Ed

- -----Original Message-----

>Nah... doubt that the piddly amt of water sucked thru a needle even if 100%
>water would hydro lock an Olds V8. I mean, I have POURED ATF &c chemicals
into
>motors with quite a fat stream while running with no ill effects. Sometimes
to
>my chagrin.
>
>I reckon in the winter you'd want to use Olds-approved.. what was that
name?...
>Liqui-jet?  Jetfire fuel? Anyhow, water with enough alcohol to prevent
>freezing.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 08:09:32 -0400
From: Rebel1 <rebel1@raex.com>
Subject: Re: Cheap manuals

Chris,
    Have you got one for a '69?
Todd
'69 rag top - 310hp tied to a Jetaway and 2.73's :-(

Chris Brown Witt wrote:

> Acrtually, if you'd like the genuine thing for a really great price, go
> to:
>
>         www.factoryautomanuals.com
> The owners name is Dan Bowers and my husband just got some stuff from
> him. He's very happy with what he got and highly recommends him. He got
> a FSM from him for our '93 9C1 Caprice for $33. He chatted with Dan and
> says he's very helpful and reliable.
> ===================
> Dang, that is cheap. I am tired of looking at this stack. Folks say they will
> take some, then check never comes... MAKE AN OFFER folks. How about $10 for a
> '68 Fisher Body Manual? Right now I would do that.
>
> --
> Chris Witt      *the* Rocket Scientist
> Lansing, MI :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu
> --
> 517-882-9747 eves/wknds to 11pm MI time
> Email text only please, No MIME, no attachments, no pictures.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 08:12:46 -0400
From: "Edward Binnix" <comid@jellico.com>
Subject: Re: think I've been ripped off.....

Speaking as someone who buys and sells on the net A LOT, very few people are
willing to do COD. Why? I don't really know accept that maybe people simply
want the cash in hand before the part leaves their hand. Also, if the the
buyer refuses the COD, the seller gets the part back BUT has to eat the
shipping and COD charges. That can be a substantial expense. On e-bay, I
rely on feedback ratings. I'm very cautious about buying from someone with
low feedback numbers. It means that they are new or have some negative
feedback. I also insist that people who buy and sell with me leave feedback
to increase my rating.

The Post Office can trace the MO if you still have the copy. If you don't
get satisfaction, contact the Postage Inspector in the perpetrators area.
Give the guy every chance before doing that, however. I've dealt with list
members on a few occasions and never had a bad experience. Something must
have happened. You have his address. There are web sights that can help you
find his phone number. Perhaps someone on the list can give you the URL for
one of those web sights. Also, try sending a certified letter to remind him
that he owes you a part. Certified because you get a card back showing that
he got the letter. This can be evidence if the law has to get involved. Hope
this helps.
Ed

- -----Original Message-----

>Sorry to hear about your ripp off......that really sucks...espesially from
>a fellow oldsmobile fan.
>
>Food for thought! next time anyone out there wants to buy or sell
>something over the  net have it shipped c.o.d. that way the
>shipper(ups,fed ex) picks up the cash from the buyer and sends it directly
>to the seller. you can also track it over the net as well.
>DAN
>
>John Carri wrote:
>
>> I'm in the middle of my first Internet purchase, and I think I've been
>> had. Another Olds listee posted that he had some headers for sale, I
>> sent him the money two weeks ago, now he won't reply to my emails and
>> I haven't received the headers. It's always possible that the guy is
>> sick or his computer broke down or something, but I don't have a very
>> good feeling about this. If the seller is reading this, and there's an
>> explanation, I'd appreciate an email message from you.
>>
>> I'm going to wait a week, if I haven't received the headers nor heard
>> from the seller by then I will post the sellers name and the mailing
>> address he gave me on this list, so that no one else gets cheated out
>> of their money.
>>
>> I paid by postal money order, sent certified mail with a return
>> receipt, so I know the guy got my money. Do I have any legal recourse
>> through the post office? This should come under mail fraud, right?
>>
>> Any listees live near Meridan, CT?  If anyone does, and might be
>> willing to pay a visit to the seller, please reply to me privately.
>>
>> Have a nice weekend, all.
>>
>> -John Carri
>> '72 Supreme  (was supposed to get headers soon, but may not)
>> '73 RoadRunner
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 08:17:45 -0400
From: "Edward Binnix" <comid@jellico.com>
Subject: Re: sweet 409, Edelbrock,

I too, have heard that the main performance increase is simply from
substantial weight loss.

- -----Original Message-----


>Unfortunately, the figures Edelbrock publishes assume the usage of their
>"Performer Package," which includes their cam. I think they even assume
>their headers are used, too.  Sorry I don't have the catalog in front of
>me to give the exact numbers, but you can find them here:
>
>http://www.edelbrock.com
>
>As for the gains of the manifold alone, I put a post on Edelbrock's BBS a
>few months ago asking that very question and never received an answer.
>I'm not tossing out indictments against Edelbrock or anything, just
>stating the facts.  As near as I can tell, most members of the list here
>tend to think the actual gains of the manifold alone are marginal, with
>the chief benefit being reduced weight.
>
>--
>Thomas P. Smith
>  1971 Cutlass S: 350 Rocket/TH350/Edelbrock OL4B/Q-Jet/
>                  dual exhaust/Mallory Unilite Conversion.
>  1988 Plymouth Voyager 3.0:  Ummm...Let me think of something.
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 08:27:42 -0400
From: "Edward Binnix" <comid@jellico.com>
Subject: Re: Removal/Disconect Sway bar for traction

Removing the front anti-sway bar allows the left front to rise more than the
right. This in turn causes the right rear to "squat" more, creating better
traction. Using Moroso's trick springs and/or air bags increases the
effectiveness. From what I Understand, you don't need to take the sway bar
off. You can unbolt the link on one or both sides. But if you unbolt both
ends, you have to wire up the ends to keep it from hanging down. This way
you can simple put the links back in for the drive home, should take all of
ten minutes.
Disclaimer: This is the way it was explained to me.
- -----Original Message-----

>I am under the impression that removing or simply disconnecting the front
>sway bar significantly improves traction.  Is this so or not?  If it does
>little, I don't want to do it but if it helps I am willing.  I realize that
>handling licks after this is done but I will get to the track and back.  I
>went today to the track and my traction licked so bad, I was running high
>14s with 2.8 and 2.6 60 foot times and lousy traction 1/2 way down the
>track.  I was so frustration not to be able to do anything about it.  1/4
>throttle launches are fine, but 1/4 throttle down the 330 feet BITES.  See
>my Carb Spacer post for more.
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 08:34:33 -0400
From: "Edward Binnix" <comid@jellico.com>
Subject: Re: Carb Spacer (top or bottom power)

Ah, carb spacers. The thing about them is, on some manifolds it increases
top end power, on others, bottom end power is improved. Depends on plenum
volume and a whole bunch of other variables. I read this in Bracket Racing
magazine. Basically, you have to decide from your time slips, 60 ft. times,
and the seat of your pants feel of the car. Type of spacer is a factor as
well. Theoretically, open spacer is for top end, 4-hole is for bottom end.
Again other factors play into the equation. I'm a bigger is better kind of
guy, ugh, ugh. I'll stack three 2" spacers. Just kidding.
Ed
- -----Original Message-----
From: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
To: Comid <Comid>
Date: Saturday, June 05, 1999 5:51 AM
Subject: Carb Spacer (top or bottom power)


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>To: "OLDS LIST" <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
>Subject: Carb Spacer (top or bottom power)
>Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 02:58:34 -0600
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>
>I put a heat dissipater (heat shield) on my car today to help prevent carb
>fuel boil (worked so far).  However, with a few gaskets and some plates,
>this thing acts like a carb spacer boosting the carb about 1/2 inch up.  My
>question is does this improve top or bottom end power.  The car seemed
>stronger at the bottom end as my traction absolutely sucked today but it
did
>not seem as capable (or at the least, no change) at the top end.  MPH was
>down by about 1 or 1/2 MPH, depending on run.  I want more power up top,
>less on bottom.  Thanks.
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 08:34:07 EDT
From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Subject: ~Early~ Rochester carbs was: H2O injection

In a message dated 99-06-04 22:14:23 EDT, you write:

<< Just a little Oldsmo-trivia.  You never know when someone might ask you
 about this.. >>

Now that you bring up trivia...
(poor segueway [sp?])
[Karl oughta start a grass-roots movement to eliminate that word. It is 
senseless]
{not trivia....}

Karl was looking up a 1950's Rochester application code when he realised some 
interesting (to very few, admittedly), things about GM's early use of 
Rochester carbs.

If anyone cares, the initial query was regarding a code that matches a model 
B (one venturii) service carb for 1932-1952 Ch*tty 216cid "6" motors.

Then, whilst looking at the index, Karl realized a few tidbits:

(Recall that Carter and Rochester were competitors for OEM buisiness, in 
years where Roch did not supply for an OEM application, Carter probably did!)

Ch*tty, who hung onto the 4GC for dear life in the mid 60's, when other 
divisions had gone Q-Jetting, did not even start to use the 4GC until 1956.

Oldsmobile and Caddy were using 4GC since 1952.
Actually, Caddy used ONLY 4GC from 1953-1962 or so and only used 2G carbs for 
tripower setups.....

Ch*tty used B model carbs from 1932, Pontiac used BC from 1941-1952.

Oldsmobile started using AA in 1949 AT cars, in all 1950 cars, switched to 
model BB for all 1951 cars, went with 4GC from 1952 on, using 2GC's as well 
after their appearance in 1955.

Interesting:
1) the 4GC preceded the 2G carb, would not have guessed that.
2) "H" carburetors were Con-Air only, just as model AA was Oldsmobile only, 
according to Karl's resources.
3) Model AA appears to be more of a progenitor to the 2G than the 1v carb in 
use elsewhere (dual throttle plates!)

Model AA appeared to have a single float bowl, used one lean and one standard 
main metering jet, had a power valve, a pump system that appears a cross 
between later Roch pumps and Holley-style (a diaphragm), a float 
counterweight (!!), fast idle screw, and idle adjust needle. In 1950, the 
choke "unloader" was added to the model AA.

Rochester recommended that for AA, "8" Oldses use a plug gap of 0.030", a 
point gap of 0.015" and a final timing of 2.5' BTDC.

The more things change.....

SOM

&KA

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #1999
*********************************

