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Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #1925


oldsmobile-digest       Monday, April 26 1999       Volume 01 : Number 1925



Roger Huntington Comments on W-31`
Speaking of Carlisle...
Re: Check your Computer TIME!
RE: Too much jets in Edelbrock carb
Re: 1970 W-31 Pace Car, whats it worth??
Re: Too much jets in Edelbrock carb
'72 350 cam specs
Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 #1924
Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 #1924
Re: Cutlass in a flood
Re: Fan Clutch?
Edelbrock 455 RPM package..
Re: 1970 W-31 Pace Car, whats it worth??
Re: W-31 pace Car
Re: Cutlass in a flood
Re: Cutlass in a flood
Re: 1970 W-31 Pace Car, whats it worth??
running '67 Toronado in junkyard (So. Cal.)
Re: running '67 Toronado in junkyard (So. Cal.)
Re: Compression Ratio from cranking pressure? 
Re: Mallory Unilite Distributor
Rear main seal
lost street battles (was: Olds vs Porsche 911)
Subject: Rainy Day Doggie
Water? was: Rainy Day Doggie
What EGR?
FS: VT chrome and BOP turbo 350
Re: lost street battles (was: Olds vs Porsche 911)
Re: Rear Axle Question
Re: Water? was: Rainy Day Doggie
Re: cowl taginfo lansing car!!
rear main seal
Re: Fan Clutch?
Re: rear main seal

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 08:58:15 -0500
From: "David Rench" <renchd@krause.com>
Subject: Roger Huntington Comments on W-31`

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I was talking to another list member last night and the subject came up =
of an article commenting on the rev potential of the W-31 and how it was =
likely the highest revving hydraulic liftered motor ever produced. =20

I remember this article fairly clearly. I believe the author was Roger =
Huntington (sp?) and it was a one page editorial type page where several =
facts/comments on various musclecars were made.  I believe is was in =
Musclecar Review or Musclecars or a magazine of that type in the =
early-mid 80's.  The W-31 comments were just a couple paragraphs.  =
Anybody got more data?  Might be an interesting piece to have for us =
W-31 owners.

Anybody? =20


David Rench


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<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I was talking to another list member =
last night=20
and the subject came up of an article commenting on the rev potential of =
the=20
W-31 and how it was likely the highest revving hydraulic liftered motor =
ever=20
produced.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I remember this article fairly clearly. I believe =
the author=20
was Roger Huntington (sp?) and it was a one page editorial type page =
where=20
several facts/comments on various musclecars were made.&nbsp; I believe =
is was=20
in Musclecar Review or Musclecars or a magazine of that type in the =
early-mid=20
80's.&nbsp; The W-31 comments were just a couple paragraphs.&nbsp; =
Anybody got=20
more data?&nbsp; Might be an interesting piece to have for us W-31=20
owners.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Anybody?&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>David =
Rench<BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 09:59:47 -0400
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Speaking of Carlisle...

Got to meet a bunch of list members at the Olds booth, which was very cool.  
The
rain was obviously a bummer, as many boths were closed or sale items were
covered with tarps.  We didn't get to half of the stuff we normally do.

Stuff I saw:

68 Hurst/Olds, on the hill.  Totally trashed, usual rust, correct VIN, barely
discernable silver/black paint over which someone had spilled metallic blue (I
didn't realize it was an H/O at first).  Car had A/C, tilt, power antenna, and 
a
SOLD sign.

69 "Hurst/Olds" convert.  This "replica" was so bad, it had the Cutlass S
emblems.  Poor quality repro hood scoop, replacement rear quarters which 
weren't
even welded to the inner fenders, laughable alignment between doors and rear
quarters.  Asking $5000.

68 442 LF fender.  Pretty straight and surface rust only.  $200.  I should have
bought it.  Same vendor had 70 W-31 intake (from the ebay "pace car", perhaps?
;-)  for $600.

70 W-31 Holiday Coupe.  $6500.  Complete and correct, but needed a complete
resto.  Very little rust.  No options at all (not ever PS).  If it weren't for
the fact that I'd never live it down, I might have bought this car (well, that
and the fact that I've just bought a new house that needs a ton of work and I
already have five project cars in various states of disrepair).  He's in 301
area code, so I kept his number, just in case.

Two 64 Cutlass converts for sale.  Both buckets with AT floor shift.  Both
around $7K

Complete (almost) 66 tri-carb setup (except for the incorrect fuel lines), 
$1500
(gasp!).

Complete restored 66 442 grille with bars and emblem, $600 (GACK!)

Factory brushed aluminum license plates with "DIESEL OLDSMOBILE".  At $10, you
can imagine that the line for these babies wound through the fairgrounds and 
out
the gate...

A correct-with-X-code-in-the-VIN (one of, what, 13?) 1972 W-30 Sport Coupe.
Unfortunately, as my friend Bill pointed out, some things are rare for a
reason...

What did I buy?  Mainly supplies and tools (can't beat the prices you get at
Carlisle on sanding disks and flap wheels).  Got a Johnny Lightning 1/64 Hurst
Hairy Olds, a nice set of back window stainless trim for $10, a can of bronze
400 engine paint from Fusick, and some parts for the horse trailer we just
bought.  Also got a front air dam for my new truck.  Split a case of brake
cleaner aerosol cans with a friend.  It should surprize no one on this list 
that
I still was unsuccessful in finding a nice 69 442 hood...  I was also
unfortunately too late to snag a 66 442 hood.

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 09:00:42 -0500
From: Kerry Kroger <kerryk@cwix.com>
Subject: Re: Check your Computer TIME!

the program is called atom time and it is currently shareware but can be
registered  just do a search on the name ATOM TIME and youll find it if not
email privately and I'll send you the shareware zip
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Ben Markert <radu@ciris.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, April 26, 1999 12:53 AM
Subject: Re: Check your Computer TIME!


> At 05:51 PM 4/25/99 -0700, you wrote:
> >Is there any chance that i could get everyone to check, and update, there
> >computer time?  I am kind of sick looking all the way down my messages
for the
> >guys that still have 1998 as their date!!!
> >
> I have heard of a server in the 'Net where you could synchronise your PC
> clock with the Atomic Clock in D.C., but I dont know the addy.
>
> Olds related: Lila's drivers side is Bondoed and primered, and she's
> waiting on my lazy but to start the other side.
>
>
> Ben Markert aka Radu(online)
> radu@ciris.net
>
> Olds forevah!! '
> Lila: 68 Cutlass "S", 350-4bbl, TH350
>
>
> THM Homepage: HTTP://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Park/5290/ "Soon to
> be my New and Improved website about all things Me!"
>
>
> The Xen Page: HTTP://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Hills/2050/
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 10:04:53 -0400
From: "Kevin Grover" <atvman@rochester.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Too much jets in Edelbrock carb

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I have a Carter carb (same as edelbrock).  I'm running .092 primary, =
.089 secondary, .065 x .052 rod, on a 68 olds 350 with a crane fireball =
cam.  The primaries are running lean enough for decent fuel economy in a =
6000lb truck with a 4.09 rear, and the secondarys are rich enough to =
make up the difference.  Cruising is nice, when the power stage kicks in =
( AKA the rods move) it accelerates nicely.  Open up the secondary and =
it flies.  Hope this helps.  I bought the strip kit for like $40.  You =
probably don't need to change the springs for the metering rods.  The =
jets take 10 min to change.  Try a bunch of combos for your needs. =20

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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I have a Carter carb (same as edelbrock).&nbsp; I'm =
running=20
.092 primary, .089 secondary, .065 x .052 rod, on a 68 olds 350 with a =
crane=20
fireball cam.&nbsp; The primaries are running lean enough for decent =
fuel=20
economy in a 6000lb truck with a 4.09 rear, and the secondarys are rich =
enough=20
to make up the difference.&nbsp; Cruising is nice, when the power stage =
kicks in=20
( AKA the rods move) it accelerates nicely.&nbsp; Open up the secondary =
and it=20
flies.&nbsp; Hope this helps.&nbsp; I bought the strip kit for like =
$40.&nbsp;=20
You probably don't need to change the springs for the metering =
rods.&nbsp; The=20
jets take 10 min to change.&nbsp; Try a bunch of combos for your =
needs.&nbsp;=20
</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 10:15:12 EDT
From: LOUS69W30@aol.com
Subject: Re: 1970 W-31 Pace Car, whats it worth??

In a message dated 04/26/1999 9:38:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
Padavano.Joe@orbital.com writes:

<< It's a nice looking car (from these internet pictures; I suspect that 
reality
 will show more...), but obviously the car has been completely fabricated.
 
 Joe Padavano
 padavano.joe@orbital.com
  >>

That's why I said it was 1 of 1, since it was completely fabricated and was a 
complete fraud and the only one out there like that.  But for the guy to make 
up a story like that is ridiculous.

It was good meeting you and some of the other guys on the list at Carlisle.

Lou Principe
69 442 W-30  

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 09:39:24 -0500 (CDT)
From: George <cutlass@one.camd.lsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Too much jets in Edelbrock carb

> > You think I should notice a difference in both power and how it runs if I
> > went with the 1411 set-up.  Looks like a little smaller P and S jets and
> > M.R.s.  Thanks.
> 
> Don't you have the data booklet with the carb? Did you buy the carb new 
> or used?
> 
> I remember, that booklet has all the info how you can tune it, with the 
> fuel/air rates etc. If you don't have that booklet, I will try to recover 
> mine. I guess it will be useful even for the 1407. Since I am not a 
> carb guy, all I can say is that I put my carb on that BB and it ran 
> awesome with factory adjusted/calibrated carb. I am sure if yours runs to 
> rich you may be able to adjust some without changing rods. Would be good 
> to know if you bought it new or used! I actually can't imagine that it 
> comes running such a thick (too rich) mix directly from edelbrock.
> 
> Let me know if I should dig for that 1411 data booklet to send you a 
> copy. Sorry I can't be of more help. (I can remember that I pushed you in 
> the edelbrock-performer direction...) 

Well, Igor, found my booklet. It is for all performer carbs including 
yours and mine. You should get a jet/rod kit for your carb. I have been 
looking at the a/f mix of my carb (1411) compared to your (1407) and it 
is 12% different or what they call 3 steps, the maximum you 
can go with the jet/rod kit! 
That is why I suspect that your carb really may run a little rich for 
your application. Unfortunately I can't tell by looking at the book what 
the actual a/f ratio is.

If you want me to send you a copy of the relevant pages let me know. Hope 
this helps. BTW: The jet/rod kit is 55 bucks and includes all jets/rods 
for every adjustment you can think of.

George

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 7:51 
From: "John Carri" <jcarri@alesis1.usa.com>
Subject: '72 350 cam specs

Paul Hartlieb wrote:
<snipped>
'72 350 - 180hp @ 4000rpm, 275 lb-ft torque @ 2800, 8.5/1 comp.
________________________________

Anyone know the cam specs on a '72 350-4bbl engine? My Supreme
has that same 180 hp engine, but I didn't know just how low the rpm 
was at the peak horsepower point - just 4000 rpm!  Also, what were the 
valve sizes in a '72 Olds 350?  Sounds like a new cam and maybe some 
bigger valves might buy me enough extra power so I can stop having 
occasional guilty thoughts about 455 transplants....

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 17:14:32 +0200
From: "MARCO & LINDA WEST KNOLLENDAM" <m.vliet@tip.nl>
Subject: Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 #1924

ok

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 17:14:52 +0200
From: "MARCO & LINDA WEST KNOLLENDAM" <m.vliet@tip.nl>
Subject: Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 #1924

ok

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:09:01 -0400
From: Don Sowers <dstaxpro@lex.infi.net>
Subject: Re: Cutlass in a flood

Rock Man wrote:
> 
> I can give ya some advice here since Fargo had that
> fun flood a while back. (pictures on my site if
> anyone's interested.) Anyways, my friend's mom's T/A
> was under water for a couple of days. The interior
> still stinks from that! Even after ripping all
> interior out and cleaning it. The electric
> windows/locks still work. The car still works, but has
> some big problems now and then.

I think you will have more problems with the electrical components if my
buddy at the local bone yard is correct.  Several years ago he had a
very nice Trans Am that was also in a flood.  Low miles, top of the line
everything, no damage otherwise, etc.  I wanted to buy it, but he
decided to keep it and drive it himself.  I'm glad he had instead of me.
Something electrical was going wrong every month it seemed like.  One
month is was the starter, the next a power window motor and so and so
on.  Even a year later he was still having problems with it.  And he had
taken everything apart and cleaned and dried it out and shot it with
WD40 to inhibit any potential rust in the process.  But it still kept
him busy until he got tired of fixing everything and sold it.  Of course
he could afford to fix it as parts were free and the labor was cheap at
his business.  As far as the interior, there are products out there that
will eventually take away the odor most of the time.  Of course the best
thing to do is to sit the vehicle in a dry place and open up the
windows, doors, etc and remove the carpet, seats, and trim panels and
air out the whole thing for a while.  As anyone that has messed with a
flood car can tell you, there are differring degrees of flood damage. 
If the car was partially submerged you can do things a little
differeently than if the vehicle was totally submerged over the engine
and stayed there for a while.  If the engine and trans were totally
under the water and the car stayed there for a while, then you'd have to
take everything apart in the motor and trans and start again to really
clean all the silt out of it.  The same with some of the other
mechanical parts.  The body parts should be okay as long as you clean
them up and prep and prime any exposed metal places.  BTW, one way to
check an A/T is to pull the trans fluid stick and look at the fluid on
it.  If the trans fluid is milky looking, you might as well figure on
tearing the trans down and rebuilding it eventually.  Usually just
draining the fluid, etc isn't enough.  And if the car in question was in
salt water for some reason, we get into a whole different area of
problems, I would think.  But, then we don't have much salt water around
KY due to the lack of beach front property.  Bottom line (and do I ever
hate that phrase), assume the worst on a flood car if the water got up
over the engine, because that way you aren't going to be disappointed. 
Sheetmetal should be fine with washing, cleaning, and waxing and or
prepping.  Mechanical stuff needs to be blown out with compressed air,
dried and shot with a preservative like WD40.  The same with electrical
stuff, but it is generally a temporary fix here.  Engine, trans, rear
and other semi-sealed units, you are looking at probably a change in
lubricants at the least and an overhaul at the most.  Just remember the
deeper the water, the dirtier the water, the longer the bath, the
greater the potential for extra work.  

I don't pretend to be an expert on water dogs as the yards call them. 
But I have known several people that have bought and redone them over
the years.  And my buddy at the local bone yard talked me out of a
couple he has had over the years because he thought they were trouble. 
Since he deals with them all the time, I figured that he knew what he
was talking about.  It's just like some wrecked cars.  Some of them
should never be rebuilt, while others can be repaired as good as new. 
You never know which one you get until you are into it.  Look at the car
with an objective viewpoint and follow what your head says to do. 
Without seeing the car, it would be hard to determine what it is worth.
I would look at it as how much are the parts worth that I can see and
know are good.  And then go from there.  Good luck.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 08:16:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rock Man <rockman20@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fan Clutch?

I have a 160 thermostat and a flex fan in my Olds. It
does the same thing when at a light. Although, it
doesn't drop instantly, it is a noticable drop when
accelerating. (You can watch the needle go down)

- --- Dave Cullen <david.cullen@snet.net> wrote:
> >
> > Also when I had a 160* thermostat the engine would
> run at 160* but when I
> > would accelerate it dropped to 140*.....
> >
> 
> 
> Seems funny that the temp meter would respond that
> quickly. There's a lot of
> thermal mass in the coolant, it shouldn't change
> temperature real fast.
> Mebby you have air pockets so the sensor is loosing
> contact with the
> coolant?
> 
> drc
> 
> 
> 

===
Rock-Man's Page http://www.angelfire.com/nd/RockMan
rockman20@yahoo.com
1986 Honda Accord DX
1983 Honda Big Red 3-wheeler
1981 John Deer Snowmobile
197? Massey Ferguson Snowmobile
1969 Olds Cutlass "S"
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 8:12 
From: "John Carri" <jcarri@alesis1.usa.com>
Subject: Edelbrock 455 RPM package..

With Corey's engine making less than 400 hp with the Comp Cams 280 cam 
and Edelbrock RPM heads, I got curious as to what the Edelbrock 
Performer RPM 455 combo made. I couldn't find anything on this package 
at their website, but in a recent issue of Hot Rod I found a feature 
article on this combo;I forgot to bring the specs with me to work, but 
I remember that the combo made 450 hp, and the camshaft specs were 
something like 290/300 degrees intake/exhaust (advertised duration) 
while the lift was something like .490/.512 intake/exhaust. Sounds 
like a much more aggressive cam than the Comp Cams 280. The 
compression ratio wasn't very high, I think it was around 9.5:1 (wish 
I had a better memory!).

Corey, I understand that you are simply fed up with the whole thing 
now, but if someday change your mind and feel like doing a cam swap, 
maybe the Performer RPM cam will get you to (and beyond) the hp 
/torque levels you were looking for. Just a thought.

On the other hand, it sounds like you have plenty torque and hp to 
have a LOT of fun with, without changing a thing on the engine!

- -John Carri
'72 Supreme
'73 RoadRunner

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:15:57 -0400
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: 1970 W-31 Pace Car, whats it worth??

That's why I said it was 1 of 1, since it was completely fabricated and was a
complete fraud and the only one out there like that.  But for the guy to make
up a story like that is ridiculous.
_________

Absolutely.  I like to use "one of none" because it sounds as ridiculous as the
claims for the car in question.

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:04:12 -0400
From: Miguel Morales <Mike.Morales@wcom.com>
Subject: Re: W-31 pace Car

There is an authentic W-31 Post-Coupe 1 of 169 or so built in 1970 for sale 
here
in Virginia for about $7500 asking price. I can get phone number of anyone is
interested.

M Morales

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:21:46 -0400
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: Cutlass in a flood

Last year I bought a 67 Cutlass parts car which I suspect had been in a flood 
at
one time.  The body was completely rusted out (that's why it was a parts car).
What I did find as I cut the car up was that there was a significant amount of
silt, dried caked mud, and rocks in every cavity of the body.   I would be most
worried about this in your case, as you will be unable to get all of this out.
Eventually, this silt will retain moisture and cause rust from the inside out.
I wouldn't mess with the car for anything other than parts unless you were
planning to do a complete body-off resto and have the body and frame dipped.

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 10:12:14 -0500 (CDT)
From: George <cutlass@one.camd.lsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Cutlass in a flood

Ali, 

If you get it cheap, go for it. Part it out but do not attempt to restore 
it. You would have to take everything (really everything) apart and 
replace/rewire the whole electrical system. Flooding a car also brings 
water to the strangest places, maybe only a frame off would clear. It 
will rust into pieces within 5 - 10 years. I have a bud who sold his car 
because it started rusting everywhere after it was flooded 2 years 
before.

I would get this car if it is cheap and try to find a more solid start 
for a project. You sure can use body parts off this car after a decent 
sandblast/cleaning procedure. Also suspension, glass and drivetrain 
should not have suffered too much. (I don't know about the trans though). 

Don't pay more then 300 bux. it misses the engine! Good luck.

George


> I have the opportunity to purchase an inexpensive 72 Cutlass Supreme . 
> The car is basically complete except it is missing the motor.  Here is
> the shocker:  This car was parked in a garage (without a motor) when the
> river flooded about a year ago.  The entire car was submerged under
> water for about 12 hours.
> 
> I am asking the opinion of the list to see if this would be a
> salvageable car or a parts car.  The car is basically straight with
> minor rust in the quarters, but no major body damage.  I was not able to
> check the floor pans, but I assume they are rusted from the water.  The
> windows are good but they do not roll easily.  I know that the bucket
> seats and door panels are mostly damaged but what about other mechanical
> parts, like transmission, rear end.  I assume that all electrical
> components will have to be replaces (starter, alt, harnesses, lights,
> etc.).  What are your thoughts?  Would this be a salvageable car, or a
> parts car?
> 
> Ali Zalzala
> email:  texas442@flash.net
> http://www.flash.net/~texas442
> 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:29:06 -0400
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: 1970 W-31 Pace Car, whats it worth??

One more comment on the "pace car".  I just went back and looked at the pics
again.  The car has that ultra-rare cast iron W-31 intake with EGR...

Note by the way that the ad says "Matching #'s on body"; I assume this means 
the
VIN matches the Fisher Body data plate?  Wow, that's rare.

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 8:27 
From: "John Carri" <jcarri@alesis1.usa.com>
Subject: running '67 Toronado in junkyard (So. Cal.)

I was at a junkyard in the Los Angeles area this weekend, and they had 
a few of their cars set apart from the main yard. These are the ones 
that come in in running condition, and they try to resell them. Among 
them was a '67 or '68 Toronado, with a sign that said "runs" and an 
asking price of $1399!!  I took a quick look at the car, it seems 
complete and in exceptionally good condition for a car of this 
vintage, clean unripped interior, no dings or dents, no visible rust. 
The only damage I could see was that the underside of the bumper was 
slightly concave, maybe it hit something low to the ground a long time 
ago.

Unfortunately I forgot to note whether the grill was the "eggcrate" 
'68 grille, or the Cord-like '67 grill; I did note the slotted wheels, 
which look like the '67 ones in my "Oldsmobile buyers guide", and 
unlike the '68 ones. The sign the junkyard had up said '68, I think it 
was a '67. Sorry about the lack of positive I.D., I'm not yet very 
knowledgeable about Oldsmobiles, but I'm working on it!

The junkyard in question is Ecology Auto Wrecking, in Monterey Park, 
immediately north of the 60 fwy. It's located at the south end of 
Greenwood Ave, off Portrero Grande, if you're trying to find it on a 
map.

I would have brought it home myself except that (1) I just had to pay 
Uncle Sam a painful amount of money in taxes (2) It's too big for my 
wife to enjoy driving and it's her turn to have an interesting car and 
(3) it's wrong-wheel drive! 

Good hunting! At the price they're asking, it sounds like a steal. 
Especially for such a complete car in running condition. And with that 
much-loved 425 V8 the standard engine....

- -John Carri
'72 Supreme
'73 RoadRunner

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:46:53 -0400
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: running '67 Toronado in junkyard (So. Cal.)

The only damage I could see was that the underside of the bumper was
slightly concave, maybe it hit something low to the ground a long time
ago.
________

That would be the standard Oldsmobile tow truck damage.  Every Olds of that
vintage that's ever been towed will have the bottom of the bumper bent like
that.  The factory service manual shows in detail the correct configuration for
towing these cars, including the use of a piece of wood between the tow truck
strap and the bumper brackets to prevent just this damage.  Oh well...

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 8:54 
From: "John Carri" <jcarri@alesis1.usa.com>
Subject: Re: Compression Ratio from cranking pressure? 

Dave Cullen wrote:

>I've been told that an engine compression test should read C.R. times
>atmospheric pressure. So an 8:1 engine should give about 112 lbs. 
>Makes sense to me.

>But whenever I do a compression test my gage gives me much higher 
>readings than that. Even on low CR engines. It's a professional gage 
>I've used for 20 years. Checked its accuracy against air pressure 
>gages a couple times, it always checks OK.

>My method is to just screw the gage into a plug hole and crank the 
>motor WOT until the gage stops increasing (4 or 5 "puffs"). My V-6 
>Cutlass read 120 lbs in 5 jugs, 90 in the bad one. My 307 gives me 
>155 lbs on all 8. That would indicate about 12:1 C.R. which is 
>balogna.

>Whazzup wid dat?

______________________________________

I always believed that the pressure read on the compression tester was 
LOWER than (C.R. x atm. pressure), because of valve overlap bleeding 
off some pressure at cranking speed, blowby, etc. But Dave just 
pointed out the cranking pressures he measures indicate unreasonably 
high CR, rather than the lower than actual CR that should result 
because of valve overlap, etc.  Hughes Engines (major Mopar engine 
builder) recommends engines be built and cammed for 185 psi cranking 
pressure for use on pump gas, which would translate to an absurd CR of 
12.6 : 1   (since atmospheric pressure is about 14.7 psi).

Whazzup wid dat, indeed? I've got to be overlooking something obvious 
here, but I can't figure out what it is!

- -John Carri
'72 Supreme
'73 RoadRunner

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:06:25 -0500
From: "Greg" <zimmermangm@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Mallory Unilite Distributor

I have a Mallory Unlilite also, it doesn't work either.  it kept giving bad
sparks (the timing light would shine on random spots on the balancer).  I
switched to an MSD/HEI unit with great results.

- -greg

- -----Original Message-----
From: Peter Landowski <PETTRIX@prodigy.net>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Sunday, April 25, 1999 12:40 AM
Subject: Mallory Unilite Distributor


>I was wondering if anyone has a Mallory Unilite distributor? I have one on
>my 455 and I believe the trigger light went bad. The reason being it ran
>fine and then started it up today and it sounds funny. The car idles but
>when you accelerate it runs rough. Timing is OK so I believe it is the
>distributor.
>
>
>Pettrix@prodigy.net
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:15:01 -0500
From: steven@purplemonkey.com (Steven Saraceno)
Subject: Rear main seal

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE8FD6.077DA280
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

What is the rear main seal part number for a 1970 455.  I believe people have 
been recommending a Ford seal. 

Steven
70 W-30 convertible

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 9:46 
From: "John Carri" <jcarri@alesis1.usa.com>
Subject: lost street battles (was: Olds vs Porsche 911)

Greg Zimmerman wrote:
<snipped>
...I tried to race a red (of course) porsche 911 turbo from 45mph and 
up.  I hit the gas and pulled in front of him.  Little did I know, but 
he slowed a little bit just to get into a lower gear.  Then a 
horrendously loud whoosing sound and a red blur shot past me.  He was 
out of sight after several seconds...  Oh well, if I had spent 
$100,000, I'd expect to go that fast too.
_______________________________________

The newer turbo 911's are FAST - try 0-60 in under 4 seconds! Amazing 
combination of horspower, light weight, and traction. Hard to beat a 
rear-engine layout for launch traction. About the only thing that can 
beat them in a straight line is one of those 1000-cc Japanese 
superbikes. Those Porsche's are in a very different category from 
those overpriced 300ZX's :)

Had a similar experience with my '72 Supreme and an early 90's 
Corvette. Getting on the fwy, one of those metered on-ramps with a 
traffic light at the top of it, two lanes merging into one within 
about 100 yards of the light. I know my car is no competition for a 
'vette in a fair fight, I was hoping to take him by surprise,get the 
jump on him, and beat him to the merge point, after which he would be 
stuck behind me no matter how fast his car was. Unfortunately I hit 
the gas too hard, went up in smoke, and he had time to hear my tires 
squeal, hit the gas pedal, and just SCREAM past me as though I was 
standing still. It was Roger (my Supreme) and I who had to 
shamefacedly pull in behind him and chug along in his wake...

Roger doesn't like to talk about this one, so don't tell him I told 
you.

- -John Carri
'72 Supreme  ("Roger")
'73 RoadRunner ("Rex")

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 9:58 
From: "John Carri" <jcarri@alesis1.usa.com>
Subject: Subject: Rainy Day Doggie

Dave Cullen wrote:
<snipped>
So...
I'm thinkin' that barometric pressure must affect air fuel ratio, no? 
Can I deduce from this that my motor is running lean or rich or 
whatever? Or does all that get compensated for somehow by magic?
______________________

One of the books I have on carburetors says that carbs actually 
respond to the mass of air flowing through the venturi, rather than 
just the cfm. That means that anything that changes the density of the 
air (altitude, humidity, thunderstorms, etc, etc) actually changes the 
vacuum signal at the venturi, and thus the air/fuel ratio.

Later carbs often have an "altitude compensator" doohicky, it measures 
atmospheric pressure and adjusts a small auxiliary fuel passage to try 
to keep the air/fuel ratio constant when you drive from LA to Denver.
I don't think any carb has a humidity sensor, though.

Of course modern EFI solves all these problems, with a multitude of 
sensors measuring everything from atmospheric pressure to oxygen 
content in the exhaust gases and the ability to correct the a/f ratio 
to match the sensors outputs.

My '72 Supreme loves cold dry days, is a dog on hot summer days, and 
is kinda in-between on cold rainy days. Quite noticeable.

By the way, a while ago I added home-made OAI to my Supreme, ever 
since I've gotten better mpg - went up by around 2mpg!  Makes sense, 
the car makes more power at the same throttle setting, so on average I 
use less throttle - and less fuel - than before to get to work and 
back.  Cold air works many wonders!

- -John Carri
'72 Supreme
'73 RoadRuner

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:08:38 EDT
From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Subject: Water? was: Rainy Day Doggie

In a message dated 99-04-25 09:55:41 EDT, you write:

<<<< On the rainy days is your engine stumbling? Could very well be ignition 
problems too. Bad wires that are arcing in the dampness.  Or even a bad 
distributor cap also causing a cross arc between wire terminals. Look for any 
carbon arcing tracks.  Gary.... >>>>
 
<< Now that ya mention it....there is some stumble at idle. Guess it's 
tune-up time.
 Thanx. >>

Sorry to be late, was watching this thread and dint wanna jump in too soon.

Most combustion engines should operate slightly different in the wet.

Part of the phenomenon is related to pressure.
By that the high pressure/low pressure system stormfront phenomenon is 
referened.

Karl has two knees that are not quite as blueprinted and can detect some such 
weatherfronts.

The other is.....moisture.
This may not come as a suprise to you, but water does not burn.

No, really!

(wait a sec, someone drank Karls beer...)

At Karl's work, bomb calorimetry is employet to determine total heats of 
combustion.
Ultimately measured in BTU/pound.

Anyhow, Karl has learned that the problem with moisture is that it tends to 
be liquid water: which turns to steam in the prescence of great heat, e.g. a 
cylinder firing.

No big news there.
But, in turning to steam, water absorbs heat, which is an important factor in 
combustion.
So higher moisture can cause a drop in heat in the combustion cylinder which 
will interfere with "normal" combustion. 

Was gonna say that this is more true for later model cars, but that would 
mean wandering into a different hallucination.

This one's fine for now.

SOM

&KA

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:20:31 -0500
From: Martin Thomas-WLTM07 <Thomas.Martin@motorola.com>
Subject: What EGR?

My 85 Cutlass service manual says that I SHOULD have a NEGATIVE Backpressure
EGR, when I go to the parts store they give me a POSITIVE Backpressure type.
The one that my dad replaced on it from GM was a Positive type.

What SHOULD I have?  Do the 76 and 81-90 cars use the same MOUNT for the
EGR?  I want to use the ported type EGR.
I don't want a backpressure type at all.  Normal ported is what I want.

The reason this is a problem is I have reduced the backpressure in the
exhaust via the Hooker duals and not Cat Conv, and if I have a positive type
EGR, it will not open because there is not enough backpressure to close the
bleed valve in the EGR valve, and it will never open.  Hence, pinging at
part throttle.  If I do the squeeze test, the EGR works fine, but under
vacuum (you must have backpressure in a Positive type EGR valve to make it
open) with my new vacuum pump, it will not open.  (I think it is bad too).
Negative backpressure would make it open too soon, or incorrectly at best.

Anyone know what EGR was used from 73-74, and then 75-76, and then from
77-??  The car shop lists the years in groups.  

Thanks!

Thomas Martin
80 Turbo Trans AM 400 Pontiac Power!
85 Cutlass Supreme Rocket 350 CCC
91 Bonneville LE 3800 Buick Power!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:23:21 -0500
From: Chris Smetana <chris@abcs.com>
Subject: FS: VT chrome and BOP turbo 350

I have for sale the vinyl top chrome from a 69 Cutlass sports coupe.  It 
includes 4 pieces, 2
per side, on the rear quarters.  Excellent shape, one small pit in the piece 
that sits on the
peak of the rear quarter, but it is mostly covered by the other piece of vinyl 
top chrome.
Price: open to any offers

I also have for sale a BOP turbo 350 tranny.  I don't know what year it is.  
It is my brothers
transmission, but for now sitting in my garage, and it was rebuilt roughly 8 
years ago, but
only has a couple thousand miles on it if that.  It was sitting behind an Olds 
455 for those
miles too.  It comes with a remanufactured torque convertor.  Price: accepting 
offers, but
I'll confer with my brother as to the exact price he wants to sell it for, but 
as an FYI, it
cost roughly $680 to rebuild it.

Chris Smetana
Terre Haute, IN
http://www.abcs.com/chris/

1969 W-31
1969 4-4-2 parts car
plus others

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 02:27:38 +0900
From: Nick Dean <freewolf@msa.attmil.ne.jp>
Subject: Re: lost street battles (was: Olds vs Porsche 911)

John Carri wrote:

> The newer turbo 911's are FAST - try 0-60 in under 4 seconds! Amazing
> combination of horspower, light weight, and traction. Hard to beat a
> rear-engine layout for launch traction. About the only thing that can
> beat them in a straight line is one of those 1000-cc Japanese
> superbikes. Those Porsche's are in a very different category from
> those overpriced 300ZX's :)
>
> Had a similar experience with my '72 Supreme and an early 90's
> Corvette. Getting on the fwy, one of those metered on-ramps with a
> traffic light at the top of it, two lanes merging into one within
> about 100 yards of the light. I know my car is no competition for a
> 'vette in a fair fight, I was hoping to take him by surprise,get the
> jump on him, and beat him to the merge point, after which he would be
> stuck behind me no matter how fast his car was. Unfortunately I hit
> the gas too hard, went up in smoke, and he had time to hear my tires
> squeal, hit the gas pedal, and just SCREAM past me as though I was
> standing still. It was Roger (my Supreme) and I who had to
> shamefacedly pull in behind him and chug along in his wake...
>
> Roger doesn't like to talk about this one, so don't tell him I told
> you.
>
> -John Carri
> '72 Supreme  ("Roger")
> '73 RoadRunner ("Rex")

I had an experience in my 72 C/S with a brand new 98 Corvette as well.  I
was driving along in traffic in the right-hand lane (even though the left
lane was clear), when I see this white 'Vette come up from behind in the
left lane.  By the time I noticed, he had already passed me, so I pulled
out behind him.  I pulled up close to him and he saw me, and punched the
gas.  I did the same and kept right on his plastic covered bumper.  Before
long we were racing at around 90, but the traffic in the other lane
prevented me from even attempting a pass, whether I could have made it or
not.  Pretty soon the road closed down to one lane, so he merged, with
enough room in front of the car he pulled in front of to fit me, so I pull
up and in.  Then a light up ahead turns red.  We both get hard on the
brakes.  I'm pretty sure the 98 'Vettes come with ABS disks, so he didn't
have anything to worry about with stopping.  But I on the other hand just
had the power drums :-)  .  Anyway, I'd been driving this car long enough
to learn the brakes well and had it to the verge of locking up.  We were
going about sixty mph, full on the brakes, with about 5 feet between us.
Somehow, we both got stopped in front of the white line.  I'm pretty sure
he was expecting to pull in some money from a neck injury.  Too bad I let
him down  ; P .  When the light turned green we had to merge into some
more traffic and it closed up before I could get back out to him, and he
took off.  Oh, well, it was fun while it lasted, and it really made me
feel great about my Supreme.  All this with two other heavy guys in the
car (the 'Vette only had the driver).

Nick (this story still gets my heart racin') Dean
'72 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 10:27 
From: "John Carri" <jcarri@alesis1.usa.com>
Subject: Re: Rear Axle Question

Gene Gatti wrote:
<snipped>

....I have a '64 Cutlass with a 10 bolt rear in it and if I spin the
driveshaft one revolution the tire turns 1.5 times. The other tire 
turns in the opposite direction unless I try to hold one back in which 
case they both turn in the same direction. What do you make of this? 
After reading an earlier post on identifying a posi rear I'm guessing 
that mine is not but why do both tires turn in the same direction if I 
attempt to hold one back while turning the driveshaft? And then do I 
have a 1.5:1 axle ratio or do I need to double my result? I know I 
should just pull the cover off but I'm too lazy at this time :-) 
- ------------------------------

With a non-posi rear, if you keep one tire stationary (just jack up 
the other one) and calculate
(driveshaft #of rotations/wheel # of rotations) the answer you get 
will be HALF of the actual rear-end ratio. This is because of the way 
the differential works - the ring gear actually turns at the average 
of the two wheel rpms, when one wheel is stationary the other wheel 
has to turn twice as fast to maintain the same average. 

With a posi rear the two wheels will try to turn at the same rate 
(until you apply enough torque to make the posi slip), so in this case 
the same calculation will yield the correct rearend ratio without 
doubling the answer.

In your case, just double the answer you got to get the actual rearend 
ratio. Since you measured 1.5:1, that works out to 3:1, I'm guessing 
what you actually have is the 3.08:1 rearend.

I don't understand why both wheels turn in the same direction if you 
try to hold one back, though. With a non-posi rear it should be easy 
to hold either one stationary with little effort, so long as the 
opposite wheel is free to turn.

- -John Carri
'72 Supreme
'73 RoadRunner

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 02:36:57 +0900
From: Nick Dean <freewolf@msa.attmil.ne.jp>
Subject: Re: Water? was: Rainy Day Doggie

KarlAunan@aol.com wrote:

> But, in turning to steam, water absorbs heat, which is an important factor in
> combustion.
> So higher moisture can cause a drop in heat in the combustion cylinder which
> will interfere with "normal" combustion.

Water also expands when it turns to steam, so shouldn't this provide more
compression?  It obviously doesn't...guess it's just my own hallucination.

Nick (feeling kinda thirsty with this talk about water) Dean
'72 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:59:02 EDT
From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Subject: Re: cowl taginfo lansing car!!

<< very heavy frame double thickness compared to my 76 cutlass  probably out 
last any car with a frame that thick??....got info on cowl tag  ..Karl- >>>

What???
Oh.
Well, the frames were thicker, or at least boxed for convertables, an "O" 
cross- section rather than a "C" or "U" in cross-section. This made up for 
the lack of structural intgrity that a hard top would have provided. 

<< tag is 
 st7234267lan481653bdy
 tr97053bpnt
 what name is the paint ????I had two people tell me that its not a lansing 
car
 come on are we lookin at the same vin site....vin-3j67k2m227034
 the 7th one is m is that not lansing??or were you guys just pullin my leg??>>

Er, uh, .... see, Karl forgot the truth on that particular occasion, sorry.

Anyone got a 1976 Shop Manual handy/

<< by the way the car had a fire I figured by the underside of hood took out
 electric fuel pump  lots of no no rubber fuel line...no starter no gen. no
 battery cable no inside dash >>

Jeez, musta been an electrical fire to incinerate the alt, starting motor and 
half the wire harness.

<< lots of work the trunk and car were full of parts two dash boards two 
steering wheels lots of lights for 200.00 I got a deal ...just for 3 boxs of 
tools and new cables and tire chains.... ect...got a deal 7 blade alum. fan 
didnt come stock did it ???>>

No, believe an iron 4-5 blade fan woulda been stock.

<< carb#7054937
 3117>>

Well, 3117 should be a date code, but tells me you read the right carb #.
OTOH this is kinda scary as, if the code is right, it is a 1974 carb...which 
means an EGR carb. Best to make sure.
(Besides, the float bowl part # on Karl's 1972 carb is 7044997, and a 1972 
350 should have a 7042250 application code (Karl thinks))

Go to:
http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/thurlow/858/index.html

Click on the link to "How to decode your Rochester Carb"
There is an image there of a Q-Jet with the area containing the code is 
pointed out.

<< 7-a heads >>

Better than "8"s.
Or more to the point: less cylinder head volume.

<< blk #395558 2   WAS BEHIND water pump at front of motor??? >>

Exactly right, see:
http://members.aol.com/KarlAune/soylent.html

And here Karl directs you to the Oldsmobile FAQ at ww.442.com.
According to the FAQ, that is a 1968-70 block code.
However, Dave Brown would likely be the first to say that the FAQ is not 
complete.
395558 2 could have been used in 1972.
For example, Mr. Brown and Karl witnessed a 1A block at an Oldsmobile 
Homecoming a year or so ago.
Note that the 1A code is not listed in the FAQ.

For some gratuitous SOM pix, some of which point out code locations.
For example the 1965 "A" block code behind the water pump.
Vis-a-vis the locale of your diff code: your mileage is almost certain to 
vary!
Several on-list folks have NOT found theirs.
 
<< Got good news at car prt swap meet today in golden ears B.C. can remove 
whole
 dash of to be crushed 72 from tow truck dude for the price of 50.00 bucks 
total of car to date =$290.00 dollars how do I know the #s match engine and 
car maybe the old man put a different motor in.?
 I know Im ramblin on but can I hook up a battery too the conv. top motor to
 get the top down and dry out the car for the summer while I patch it or buy a
 new top??or can I just manually push the hood back the pistons do seem to 
have
 resistance so i didnt want to force it??Also thanks to Mike SMITH for the 
info
 on the comparison of h.p. to my 76 -72 350   close race stock . >>

Karl disavows knowledge of raggedy-tops.
Sorry, cannot help there.

OTOH, halter tops.....

SOM

&KA

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:03:06 -0500
From: steven@purplemonkey.com (Steven Saraceno)
Subject: rear main seal

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OK, I found in my saved documents that the rear main seal for a 1970 455 =
is the same as the one for a Ford 460,  but is it the newer one piece or =
the older two piece.  Is it from a truck 460 (newer) or a car 460 =
(Older)?

Steven
70 W-30 convertible

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Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:10:07 -0700
From: BOYD DONALD R <drboyd@srpnet.com>
Subject: Re: Fan Clutch?

Well here is the temperature dilemma. On my 72 442 455 car I installed a
mechanical temp gauge. The thermostat opens at 195*. When the car is
driving the temperature drops to 170*. When I pull up to a stop it will
heat up to 210* and then the second I begin to accelerate it drops to 170*.

I have a direct fan clutch(non-thermal). Could the fan be drawing in that
much air when it gets up to 200RPM that it cools the coolant down 30* -
40*? IT is a six blade factory fan. Should I switch to a thermostatically
controlled fan? If yes what kind (temp)?

Also when I had a 160* thermostat the engine would run at 160* but when I
would accelerate it dropped to 140*.....

Pettrix@prodigy.net

***Here's a thought - maybe this is an electrical problem!  If, for example,
the temp reads higher at lower voltage, and your alternator or battery are
on their last legs, you'd get exactly what you're seeing here.  If the temp
sender increases resistance as temp increases, that's what would do this.  

Quick check: Disconnect the temp sender, start engine.  If temp is now
reading a zillion degrees on the gauge, you may be having this condition.
If temp reads cold, "never mind"

I'd get a voltmeter and check voltage at dash with engine idling and at
speed.  Could be a simple as a slipping alternator belt.  Come to think of
it, if you have one belt doing the alternator and fan...

Don
76 Cutlass factory 455 Hurst T-Tops

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:22:37 -0500
From: Kerry Kroger <kerryk@cwix.com>
Subject: Re: rear main seal

Fel-Pro does list a neoprene seal in their catalog you might want to check
with a good parts store...KK
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Steven Saraceno <steven@purplemonkey.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Monday, April 26, 1999 1:03 PM
Subject: rear main seal


OK, I found in my saved documents that the rear main seal for a 1970 455 is
the same as the one for a Ford 460,  but is it the newer one piece or the
older two piece.  Is it from a truck 460 (newer) or a car 460 (Older)?

Steven
70 W-30 convertible

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #1925
*********************************

