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Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #1920


oldsmobile-digest       Friday, April 23 1999       Volume 01 : Number 1920



Re: how to? R12 to 134a (the basics)
Re: 1970 W-31 Pace Car, whats it worth??
Lost Keys
RE R22
Re: Aftermarket gauges:Electronic/Mechanical
Re: Lost Keys
Re: RE R22
boneyard score
looking for spare th 350 that fits
Re: looking for spare th 350 that fits
Re: looking for spare th 350 that fits
Re: More Adventures From Inside The Dash...LONG, INTERESTING
Re: Aftermarket gauges:Electronic/Mechanical
Re: gauges and warning light ?????
Re: Lost Keys
Re: More Adventures From Inside The Dash...LONG, INTERESTING
Re: More Adventures From Inside The Dash...LONG, INTERESTING
Convertible deals...
Mechanical failure: Aftermarket gauges:Electronic/Mechanical
Re: Convertible deals...
442.com
Re: 442.com
Re: More Adventures From Inside The Dash...LONG, INTERESTING
Re: yahoo just bought 72 cutlass conv
Re: pulling a Churchill
Engine ID
Date:	Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:51:44 PDT
Re: 
Re: 
Olds two, 300 Z zero...
1980 442 W30
Sorry......Mondello Quadrajet carburetor, Item #94270835
Re: Jefferson, WI - April 24 & 25
Re: TH400 mounts - was 350 swap
Non Olds Delete was: Jefferson, WI - April 24 & 25
Re: 350/455 swap (was 350/455 motor mounts)
Re: Olds two, 300 Z zero...
Re: Olds two, 300 Z zero...
Re: Olds two, 300 Z zero...
Rocket Talk
See you all later
Re: Rocket Talk
Re: See you all later
Re: Rocket Talk
Re: Rocket Talk
Torque Plus Intake Gaskets
Headers
Re: 230 messages a day
First Olds Buying Help
Re: 230 messages a day
Re: More Adventures From Inside The Dash...LONG, INTERESTING
Re: Mechanical failure: Aftermarket gauges:Electronic/Mechanical
Rocket Talk!!!!   
Re: Jefferson, WI - April 24 & 25

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 06:04:52 -0500
From: "Greg" <zimmermangm@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: how to? R12 to 134a (the basics)

I still didn't get an answer on how to add 134a to my car....and by the way,
R12 is $30 a pound and R22 is $8.

- -greg z

- -----Original Message-----
From: Matthew Bremmer <bremmer@sgi.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 4:19 PM
Subject: Re: how to? R12 to 134a (the basics)


>Use R-22(refrigerator coolant) instead.  A good mechanic friend of mine has
>used this in multiple cars and has seen no problems or quams.  Since R-22
is
>also only 6-15 bucks a pound compared to 200+ bucks per pound for R-12.  If
you
>use R134 I think you still have to have R12 in your system so basically it
will
>still cost 500 - 1000 dollars to recharge your cooling system.  With a
billion
>refrigerators out there I don't think R-22 is going to go away either..
Just
>my .02.  Take it for what it is worth....
>
>Matt
>
>Greg wrote:
>
>> I'm re-installing my A/C system into my '71 cutlass and I want to put in
>> 134a instead of R12.  I know it won't be as cold, but I don't need to
store
>> meat in my car.  What's the minimum things I need to make sure it works
>> correctly?  I know I need to use a different oil, I've also seen O-ring
kits
>> at the autoparts store claiming they are needed for the conversion.
>>
>> Can someone give me the rundown on what I need to do?
>>
>> thanks,
>> greg
>
>--
>"The truth is out there; Trust NO ONE!!!!!!!"
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 06:18:30 -0400
From: Mark Cornea <mcornea@ford.com>
Subject: Re: 1970 W-31 Pace Car, whats it worth??

BC wrote:
> 
> Need some info from the Cutlass Crowd. On eBay, no groans please, there is a
> listing for a '70 OLDS W-31  Pace Car, there are pictures posted on the
> auction page. My partner is really interested in this car but is not sure if
> the reserve price is a good price for this car. The owner states the reserve
> is just shy of $10,000. If any of you have the time can you give me your
> opinion of the car, it's URL is
> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=93989298
> If you wish you may email me directly at beastmaster@earthlink.net.
> I also noticed a 1969 442 listed as well as a 1967.
> Thanks,
> Bruce
> 70 Delta 88 Conv 355
> 75 Delta 88 Royale Conv 455


	Well.......... here we go again, this will be a VERY interesting day! 
................................."1970 Olds W-31 Grand National Pace
Car. There were only 3,000 of these made and only 300 of those were made
with a 4-Speed Transmission, like this one with a Hertz Shifter. It has
a 400 cubic inch engine"

         ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
               Mark Cornea (Dr. Decal)  OCA# 4903
                             1970 W30 (red)

                      mailto:drdecal@wwnet.net

                    Visit http://www.drdecal.com
        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 08:22:16 -0400
From: Sue Lambert <slam@tdstelme.net>
Subject: Lost Keys

Is there any business that makes up keys from your V.I.N.?  Someone lost

my son's car keys and he did not have spares.  It is for a 87 Oldsmobile

Calais.  The local dealerships provide that service but they cannot go
back to 87.  They only go back to either 88 or 89.  Any ideas of any
businesses with the ability to do Oldsmobile keys for this year (1987)?

Thanks,
Sue

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 08:31:10 -0400
From: "Mitchel L. Young" <mitch@iitek.net>
Subject: RE R22

Mitch;

Do you have any direct info about the ability to use R-22 in
our R-12
systems. There have been people that claim it can't be used.
Yet another
person who claims he has "toped"  several R-12 systems with
R-22 and had no
ill effect mixing them. Do you know what the truth is here
and would you
post it if you chose to. If you choose not to post would you
please share
any info you have with me? No one but you seem to be a voice
of reason on
auto A/C.  Gary....

- -----Regards,

Gary J. Couse
Couse Custom's



I have seen r22 work in r 12 systems but usually it causes
condensor or compressor problems in the future due to the
pressure differences from r 12.  I cannot condone its use
for a more selfish reason however,  If a shop tries to
recover the freon from the car, as per federal mandates, and
r 22 (or any other gas) is mixed with the r 12 the $3500
recycling machine is RUINED.

Mitchel Young

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 05:52:27 -0500
From: "Mike Bloomer" <mbloomer@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Aftermarket gauges:Electronic/Mechanical

>I have Auto Meter gauges that are electric.Some people say that mechanical
>are the most accurate and reliable gauges out there. All new cars have
>electrical: Oil pressure, water temp,trans temp,etc...
>So which are better? Has anyone had an electric gauge fail?
>Pettrix@prodigy.net

If you look at the face of the gauge the mechanical gauges
will have a larger swept area of the needle on most gauges.
What this means is that the mech gauges are more accurate
because the needle has a larger area for you to read it and
will normally be graduated more specifically.  The electric 
gauges don't normally fail, the sensor is what will go out.
As long as you have good quality gauges (Auto Meter is 
pretty much the industry and racing standard) I wouldn't
worry about failure.  But as far as accuracy, mech is usally
better.

Mike Bloomer
mbloomer@mindspring.com
ICQ# 19113713
http://members.tripod.com/CutlassFreak/
  

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 99 09:10 EDT
From: turley@symplex.com (Mike Turley)
Subject: Re: Lost Keys

- ----- Begin Included Message -----

Is there any business that makes up keys from your V.I.N.?  Someone lost

my son's car keys and he did not have spares.  It is for a 87 Oldsmobile

Calais.  The local dealerships provide that service but they cannot go
back to 87.  They only go back to either 88 or 89.  Any ideas of any
businesses with the ability to do Oldsmobile keys for this year (1987)?

Thanks,
Sue

- ----- End Included Message -----


Sue,

Perhaps the Olds History Center??  Contact information available at
442.com.

If you have any of the original paperwork on the car these key codes will 
be recorded in that documentation, I believe.

Good Luck,
Mike Turley

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 08:24:37 -0500
From: Kerry Kroger <kerryk@cwix.com>
Subject: Re: RE R22

R-22 (used for home air conditioners) cannot be used in a system designed
for R-12
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Mitchel L. Young <mitch@iitek.net>
To: Olds Club <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Friday, April 23, 1999 7:31 AM
Subject: RE R22


> Mitch;
>
> Do you have any direct info about the ability to use R-22 in
> our R-12
> systems. There have been people that claim it can't be used.
> Yet another
> person who claims he has "toped"  several R-12 systems with
> R-22 and had no
> ill effect mixing them. Do you know what the truth is here
> and would you
> post it if you chose to. If you choose not to post would you
> please share
> any info you have with me? No one but you seem to be a voice
> of reason on
> auto A/C.  Gary....
>
> -----Regards,
>
> Gary J. Couse
> Couse Custom's
>
>
>
> I have seen r22 work in r 12 systems but usually it causes
> condensor or compressor problems in the future due to the
> pressure differences from r 12.  I cannot condone its use
> for a more selfish reason however,  If a shop tries to
> recover the freon from the car, as per federal mandates, and
> r 22 (or any other gas) is mixed with the r 12 the $3500
> recycling machine is RUINED.
>
> Mitchel Young
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:30:59 -0400
From: "Ed Binnix" <comid@jellico.com>
Subject: boneyard score

Got a hydroboost unit at a junkyard for $25, and THEY PULLED IT. Time to . .
. . BUMP UP THE DURATION!  Rumpata-rumpata-rumpata-tada-tada-tada-rumpata
rumpata . . . .
"Wow, I got it to idle below 1100 RPM's!" Ugh, Ugh, more powerrrrr.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 08:27:12 -0500 (CDT)
From: George <cutlass@one.camd.lsu.edu>
Subject: looking for spare th 350 that fits

Hi Guys, 

I am wondering what year of th 350 will bolt on my 68. It has a pretty 
much shot trans in it and I hope i can drive it an fix another one in the 
meantime. Or even better would be to find a decent one from the junkyard 
that bolts right in. 

What years do fit and what else are differences in olds 350 trans that I 
have to look for to make sure it bolts on?

Regards, George

- --------------------------------------------------------------
'68 Cuttlass S Conv. 
- --------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 08:47:16 -0500
From: Kerry Kroger <kerryk@cwix.com>
Subject: Re: looking for spare th 350 that fits

any th350 short shaft with BOP bolt pattern or dual bolt pattern ie. BOP and
Chevy should be a bolt in if this is a cutlass platform.........KK
- ----- Original Message -----
From: George <cutlass@one.camd.lsu.edu>
To: OldsML <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Friday, April 23, 1999 8:27 AM
Subject: looking for spare th 350 that fits


>
> Hi Guys,
>
> I am wondering what year of th 350 will bolt on my 68. It has a pretty
> much shot trans in it and I hope i can drive it an fix another one in the
> meantime. Or even better would be to find a decent one from the junkyard
> that bolts right in.
>
> What years do fit and what else are differences in olds 350 trans that I
> have to look for to make sure it bolts on?
>
> Regards, George
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> '68 Cuttlass S Conv.
> --------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 08:40:59 -0500 (CDT)
From: George <cutlass@one.camd.lsu.edu>
Subject: Re: looking for spare th 350 that fits

> any th350 short shaft with BOP bolt pattern or dual bolt pattern ie. BOP and
> Chevy should be a bolt in if this is a cutlass platform.........KK

Kerry, 

thanks for the fast reply. Could you please explain what BOP and dual 
bolt pattern is. (Imagine me going thru classified ads or looking at 
cores in the junkyard!) I always thought that chebby th350 have another 
bolt pattern then the olds!?? Yes it is supposed to fit a 68 cutlass. 
Could you list some cars (oldses and chebbys) that have a fitting trans 
in them?

TIA, George



> > Hi Guys,
> >
> > I am wondering what year of th 350 will bolt on my 68. It has a pretty
> > much shot trans in it and I hope i can drive it an fix another one in the
> > meantime. Or even better would be to find a decent one from the junkyard
> > that bolts right in.
> >
> > What years do fit and what else are differences in olds 350 trans that I
> > have to look for to make sure it bolts on?
> >
> > Regards, George
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > '68 Cuttlass S Conv.
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 07:32:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rock Man <rockman20@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: More Adventures From Inside The Dash...LONG, INTERESTING

Damn it! I had written up a long e-mail explaining my
experience with this and then my computer freezes! So,
here it goes again. (shorter now though)

Check the ground! I know it sounds stupid, but I had
this problem with my car. Power on, the GEN light was
always on. (varied slightly with engine) Signal right
and the GEN light would flash. Signal left and
everything would flash. I followed every wire for 4
days with no luck. Got mad, put the dash back on, and
it worked! Until the first bump and a whole new set of
situations came along. Come to find out, the ground
was bad! Fixed it and it works great now! I don't know
why a ground would cause that, but it worked for me!
Maybe it will save you a little headache.

- --- Brian Ammons <b_ammons@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:
> Hi kids.  The following is kind of confusing, but I
> went through it four
> times, and it really does make sense - just be
> patient, please?
> 
> I have some new and very puzzling developments in my
> ongoing attempt to
> install "Ralleye Pak" Gauges (Volts, Temperature,
> and Oil Pressure, out of
> what I THINK was an '83 Delta) in my 1984 Delta 88
> 4-door.  Today I took
> the dash apart (COMPLETELY APART - lots and lots of
> car guts hanging
> everywhere) and double-checked all my connections 
> (actually, changed all
> my crappy butt-end splices to soldered connections).
> 
> To quickly describe - the wires from the oil sensor
> and the temp sensor run
> from the engine compartment, through the firewall,
> and into a harness
> (which also has about fifteen other wires on it)
> that snaps into the back
> of the instrument cluster.  The harness makes
> contact at that point with
> the printed circuit that runs the width of the dash,
> supplying power and
> such to the idiot lights.
> 
> In a Gauge package car, there are wires coming out
> of the wiring harness as
> well, that run to another harness, which is where
> you plug the Gauge
> package in.  I pulled the Instrument Cluster harness
> and the Gauge Cluster
> harness out of the donor car, spliced it in at the
> appropriate places (by
> pulling the dual wire connectors out of the donor
> I.C. harness and putting
> them in place of my I.C. harness, then snipping the
> sending wires and
> soldering both them and the gauge cluster harness
> wires to the appropriate
> wires).  CONFUSED YET?  Don't worry, just know at
> this point that I'm 99%
> sure that the wires are hooked up correctly.
> 
> I have a variable (Gauge package) oil pressure
> sending unit, and the stock
> (idiot lights) temperature sending unit.  When
> everything is plugged in
> where it should go, we get the following:
> 
> Temp Gauge - Pegged at Zero (all the way to the
> left)
> Oil Gauge - Pegged at Max (all the way to the right)
> Oil Idiot Light - DIM, and it varies in intensity
> depending on whether you
> rev the motor, have it in gear, etc (i.e., the idiot
> light is acting like a
> gauge)
> 
> NOW THE FUN PART:
> 
> 1.	If I pull the dual wire Oil Pressure connector
> out of the I.C. wiring
> harness, THE OIL GAUGE WORKS CORRECTLY.  Of course,
> by doing this the Oil
> idiot light will never work.  It appears that
> running the gauge cluster's
> signal through the dash causes a short of some kind
> (OR SOMETHING).  Who's
> got a better idea?
> 
> 2.	If I pull the dual wire Temperature connector out
> of the I.C. wiring
> harness, there is no change in the gauge's function.
>  HOWEVER, if I leave
> the Temp connector in the I.C. wiring harness, and
> pull the Pink Wire w/
> Black Stripe (the power wire, that is hooked to the
> "Charge" idiot light
> and each of the gauges in the Gauge Package) out of
> the I.C. harness, I GET
> MOVEMENT ON THE TEMPERATURE GAUGE (it also appears
> to be pretty accurate,
> as in "It's working").  This is of course extremely
> surprising, because
> remember this is the STOCK temperature sending unit
> (which is supposed to
> only have two positions, and not be variable at
> all).
> 
> Note that you still get power to the Gauges when you
> do this, because the
> Pink Wire w/ Black Stripe is another one of the
> "dual" wires.  Pulling the
> power wire out of the I.C. wiring harness, of
> course, causes the "CHARGE"
> idiot light to come on (dimly - not as bright as
> when it's plugged in and
> you turn the key to "ON" (without starting the car).
> 
> SOOOO.......
> 
> 1.	Why does my Oil Pressure Gauge work only when
> it's not running through
> the dash?
> 
> 2.	Why am I getting movement on the Temp. Gauge when
> I pull the power wire
> out of the Instrument Cluster wiring harness? (I
> ordered a
> Gauge-appropriate temp sending unit today, and it
> will be on the car
> tomorrow - so that will (hopefully) eliminate one
> variable. 
> 
> 3.	WHY IS THIS SO FRIGGIN' COMPLICATED?  It was my
> understanding (perhaps
> "hope" is a better word) that the only differences
> between a Gauge-car and
> an Idiot light-car was the (a) senders, (b) wiring
> harness, and (c) the
> gauges themselves.  I'm not really frustrated, just
> puzzled.
> 
> Thanks for listening (and thanks in advance for any
> help),
> 
>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Brian Ammons             ICQ - 3585737
> MIS Major - UT Austin  b_ammons@mail.utexas.edu
> 2903 Breeze Terrace   
> http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~ammons/
> Austin, TX 78722          Home:	 (512) 236-8088
> (Austin)
>                                               (713)
> 776-2110 (Houston)
> 1984 Oldsmobile          Pager:	 (512) 483-8056
> 	Delta 88                         (713) 318-5938
> 		4-door
> "The Party Barge"
>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 

===
Rock-Man's Page http://www.angelfire.com/nd/RockMan
rockman20@yahoo.com
1986 Honda Accord DX
1983 Honda Big Red 3-wheeler
1981 John Deer Snowmobile
197? Massey Ferguson Snowmobile
1969 Olds Cutlass "S"
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 08:52:34 +0000
From: Cliff Simpson <csimpson@ucalgary.ca>
Subject: Re: Aftermarket gauges:Electronic/Mechanical

Peter Landowski wrote:
> 
> I have Auto Meter gauges that are electric.Some people say that mechanical
> are the most accurate and reliable gauges out there. All new cars have
> electrical: Oil pressure, water temp,trans temp,etc...
> So which are better? Has anyone had an electric gauge fail?

I don't know about accuracy, but I switched to an electric oil pressure gauges
for the simplicity and lack of tubes carrying hot oil in the cab.  I agree with
Mike that electric are very reliable.
- -- 

Cliff Simpson
mailto://csimpson@ucalgary.ca
'69 442,400,th400,3.31p (Kermit)
http://www.acs.ucalgary.ca/~csimpson/TheOldsZone.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 08:21:48 PDT
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: gauges and warning light ?????

> Should the gas gauge return to empty when the ignition is turned
> off?

Not on older cars. (Newer ones using stepper motors to position the 
needle will zero all the gauges at shutoff.) On older ones it's normal 
for the needle to just stay where it is, or maybe wander a bit in one 
direction or the other, when the power is shut off.

> Also, should all 4 warning(oil, temp, brake, gen) lights light up
> when the ignition is turned to the on position?

No, OIL and GEN only: there's no oil pressure (yet) and the battery is 
not being charged, so that's why those will light. As you twist the 
key towards the START position, the TEMP light will come on as a bulb 
check, and sometimes (depending on the car) the BRAKE will do so as 
well. Trying twisting the key _real_ slowly_ towards the START 
position and you'll see this happening in sequence.

- -- Andy

_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 08:25:44 PDT
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Lost Keys

> Any ideas of any businesses with the ability to do Oldsmobile keys
> for this year  (1987)?

Perhaps another Olds dealer -- maybe some are better than others at 
covering the older models. But in any event, pulling any one lock 
cylinder from a door or trunk will allow the dealer (or a competent 
locksmith) to retrofit a key to the discs/tumblers of the lock; you 
don't need to replace all (or even any) locks of the car. The ignition 
switch would have to come out for the same treatment, or just swap in 
a new one at that point since its key is unique anyway.

- -- Andy


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 08:27:50 PDT
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: More Adventures From Inside The Dash...LONG, INTERESTING

> Come to find out, the ground was bad! Fixed it and it
> works great now! I don't know why a ground would cause
> that, but it worked for me!

The ground caused that because more than one device was tied to it. 
When it broke, power flowing through one device would double back 
through the other device to find a ground path. Instead of one device 
operating by itself, you then had two devices (or more) operating in 
series, at half-voltage or less. Things get awfully strange in a hurry 
that way.  :-)

- -- Andy

_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:46:06 -0500
From: Kerry Kroger <kerryk@cwix.com>
Subject: Re: More Adventures From Inside The Dash...LONG, INTERESTING

its technical term is a "hunting ground" as the current searches or "hunts"
for a ground on the path of least resistance which would reverse flow
through other devices I have seen this cause the gas gauge to bottom when
the headlights came on and the turn signal indicators reversed right signal
left indicator also the dash lights flashing when either turn signal is on
and finally a generator light that comes on when you turn on anything that
has a light on the dash strange goings on
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Andrew C. Green <acg_o@hotmail.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Friday, April 23, 1999 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: More Adventures From Inside The Dash...LONG, INTERESTING


> > Come to find out, the ground was bad! Fixed it and it
> > works great now! I don't know why a ground would cause
> > that, but it worked for me!
>
> The ground caused that because more than one device was tied to it.
> When it broke, power flowing through one device would double back
> through the other device to find a ground path. Instead of one device
> operating by itself, you then had two devices (or more) operating in
> series, at half-voltage or less. Things get awfully strange in a hurry
> that way.  :-)
>
> -- Andy
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:56:51 -0600
From: "Blaine S." <blaines@strata3d.com>
Subject: Convertible deals...

> So pumped up today had my eye on a gold 72 conv.for about a year now
dumped
> behind the bar close to my bank saw the tow stickers on it the other
> day....very sad see it go for the crusher a for parts so I investigated
and
> found the 80 yr. old owner  and offered 100   got the car for     get this
> guys    200.00 dollars
<snip>

Yeowsa'!  What a deal!  I thought I was doing good to get my wife's '70
convert for $800.  But then again, it moves on it's own, so maybe it was
worth it... ;)

Hey, speaking of which, I finally got pictures of my wife's $800 Convertible
up on my web page.  BTW, I also moved my web page to Xoom.com.  I got really
sick of Freeyellow...  So here's the new URL:

http://members.xoom.com/OldsUndrGrnd/Index.html

I re-did my entrance page, and I would like some feedback.  It still needs
some work.  Some links are unresolved, but you should be able to get to the
pics.  Just click the "My Cars" button, or to jump right to it, click here:

http://members.xoom.com/OldsUndrGrnd/MyCars.html


Thanks,
Blaine

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:53:11 EDT
From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Subject: Mechanical failure: Aftermarket gauges:Electronic/Mechanical

In a message dated 99-04-23 09:10:20 EDT, you write:

<< the mechanical gauges will have a larger swept area of the needle on most 
gauges. What this means is that the mech gauges are more accurate because the 
needle has a larger area for you to read it and will normally be graduated 
more specifically.  The electric  gauges don't normally fail, the sensor is 
what will go out. >>

As Dave Brown & Chris Ruper get their mail later, we thought we would 
interrupt normal Olds traffic to annoy you.

And to mention that some "mechanical" versions of the oil pressure meter 
involves nylon tubing from the oil pressure sensor to the guage.

This nylon tubing has failed on a few occasions that the above mentioned 
persons have heard of.

One failure resulted in a low oil condition.

The other anecdote was motor oil spraying  from the dashboard.

We'll take electric oil pressure guages for $1000, Alex.

SOM

&KA

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:05:17 +0000
From: Cliff Simpson <csimpson@ucalgary.ca>
Subject: Re: Convertible deals...

"Blaine S." wrote:
> 
> Yeowsa'!  What a deal!  I thought I was doing good to get my wife's '70
> convert for $800.  But then again, it moves on it's own, so maybe it was
> worth it... ;)

It's not nice to brag.

> Hey, speaking of which, I finally got pictures of my wife's $800 Convertible
> up on my web page.  BTW, I also moved my web page to Xoom.com.  I got really
> sick of Freeyellow...  So here's the new URL:
> 
> http://members.xoom.com/OldsUndrGrnd/Index.html
> 
> I re-did my entrance page, and I would like some feedback.  It still needs
> some work.  Some links are unresolved, but you should be able to get to the
> pics.  Just click the "My Cars" button, or to jump right to it, click here:

It looks great, very pro.

The counter does not seem to work.  When I right click on the image I get
"Premature end of script headers:
/xoomcounter/counter2/www/cgi-bin/counter.gif"  Other than that everything
looks good.

Nice page, nicer cars, have a good weekend,
- -- 

Cliff Simpson
mailto://csimpson@ucalgary.ca
'69 442,400,th400,3.31p (Kermit)
http://www.acs.ucalgary.ca/~csimpson/TheOldsZone.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 12:13:07 EDT
From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Subject: 442.com

Gotta say it.

New "front" page sice we visited last.

Like it lots!

SOM

&KA

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 12:25:34 -0400
From: tchurchill@draper.com (Timothy A. Churchill)
Subject: Re: 442.com

Either SOM or KA Commented:

> Gotta say it.
> 
> New "front" page sice we visited last.
> 
> Like it lots!


Yeah, nice "Doc Olds" pic... no updates since 2/98 though, according
to "What's New".

I hope the Bryceman got those pix of Big Red I mailed him 3 mos. ago...



Tim Churchill  tchurchill@draper.com  OCA #30327  Framingham, MA
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, new a.k.a 'Old Gold'
'98 VW Passat GLS Wagon, a.k.a. 'der Kinderwagen'

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:32:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rock Man <rockman20@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: More Adventures From Inside The Dash...LONG, INTERESTING

I forgot to add something also. (rushed through my
reply due to work) I still had a few problems pop up
now and then. (on other areas of the car, but just as
strange as the dash problem) But, a new ground wire
from battery to body and a new one from engine to
firewall cured everything. (The old ones must've been
corroded?)

- --- Kerry Kroger <kerryk@CWIX.com> wrote:
> its technical term is a "hunting ground" as the
> current searches or "hunts"
> for a ground on the path of least resistance which
> would reverse flow
> through other devices I have seen this cause the gas
> gauge to bottom when
> the headlights came on and the turn signal
> indicators reversed right signal
> left indicator also the dash lights flashing when
> either turn signal is on
> and finally a generator light that comes on when you
> turn on anything that
> has a light on the dash strange goings on
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Andrew C. Green <acg_o@hotmail.com>
> To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Sent: Friday, April 23, 1999 10:27 AM
> Subject: Re: More Adventures From Inside The
> Dash...LONG, INTERESTING
> 
> 
> > > Come to find out, the ground was bad! Fixed it
> and it
> > > works great now! I don't know why a ground would
> cause
> > > that, but it worked for me!
> >
> > The ground caused that because more than one
> device was tied to it.
> > When it broke, power flowing through one device
> would double back
> > through the other device to find a ground path.
> Instead of one device
> > operating by itself, you then had two devices (or
> more) operating in
> > series, at half-voltage or less. Things get
> awfully strange in a hurry
> > that way.  :-)
> >
> > -- Andy
> >
> >
>
_______________________________________________________________
> > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit
> http://www.msn.com
> >
> 
> 

===
Rock-Man's Page http://www.angelfire.com/nd/RockMan
rockman20@yahoo.com
1986 Honda Accord DX
1983 Honda Big Red 3-wheeler
1981 John Deer Snowmobile
197? Massey Ferguson Snowmobile
1969 Olds Cutlass "S"
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 12:32:06 EDT
From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Subject: Re: yahoo just bought 72 cutlass conv

In a message dated 99-04-23 00:53:01 EDT, you write:

<< vin...3j67k2m227034 the 350 should be stronger then my 76  ??  karl....joe
 ....hotrod.. >>

uh?

what?

What!

There is only ONE bar close to your bank?

<grin>

Seriously, your vin says that it is a 1972 car not made in Lansing.
The first four digits can be decoded bu someone with an owners manual as the 
exact model and variant of 1972 Oldsmobile.
For more info, have someone decode the cowl tag on the firewall.

Karl would be interested in the following: miles on the odometer, and block 
and head #s.

As for 1972 350 vs. 1976 350.....

Karl's father's Oldsmobile was a 1976 Cutlas S 4dr hdtp w. PS & A/C & single 
exh.
Not being able to recall much else from those days due to the # of claendar 
(hah! sounds like a Scottish clan!) days gone by, Karl ~clearly~ recalls that 
it was a beast!

Karl recalls losing by 8" or so to a Berlinetta in.....well, mebbe 1983 or so.
Beat out a lot of Tron/Afficianados.
And some idiot in a MT New Yorker that thought he was fast.
(ah, the folly of youth!)

As far as a 1972 350 vs. a 1976 350.
Karl's experiences indicate that by 1976, the draw of manifold vacc to the 
EGR was properly compensated for such that the Q-jet/350/350 moved along 
pretty good.

However, Olds FAQ says 72 had #7A's with 64cc in cylinder head where '76 
smoggers used #8 with 79cc.

Given the same crank/rods/pistons, 1972 had better compression easy.

Karl had 14" rims stock and went to 15" all around with 225P70R15s.
Gained like 4".
With that and the new springs/shocks, the improved ride height was incredible!
(but then the springs/shocks were factory original on a 1965 car)

Happy Oldsmobiling!

SOM

&KA

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 12:35:00 EDT
From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Subject: Re: pulling a Churchill

In a message dated 99-04-22 16:04:27 EDT, you write:

<< On the other hand, Ahhhhh, the joy of going home every evening to a 
 date with the woman I most want to be with. >>

And: Oh boy! spending the surplus of a dual income on Oldsmobilia!

Some can only wish.....

SOM

&KA

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:45:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rock Man <rockman20@yahoo.com>
Subject: Engine ID

Okay gang, I need help. A friend of mine that lives in
Springfield, Illinois, has a friend that has an engine
laying in his garage. He says that he thinks it's a
455. He sent me an e-mail with a casting number. I'm
not sure where this number came from off the block. I
checked on 442.com and it doesn't appear to be Olds
from there. Maybe it's the wrong number though? I
dunno. Anyways, heres what he gave me, 20PZ235081 any
ideas on what this could be? He said that he has the
OE intake, complete heads w/out rockers, 5 of the rods
and pistons (he goes on to say, "don't ask"), the
crank and the rod and main bearing caps and the
harmonic balancer. He does say that the exhuast ports
point just about straight down so it does sound like
the wide V of the Oldsmobile. Should I have him search
for more numbers somewhere?

Thanks,
Del
(Hoping to run with the BB's [Big Boys *LOL*]some
day!)

===
Rock-Man's Page http://www.angelfire.com/nd/RockMan
rockman20@yahoo.com
1986 Honda Accord DX
1983 Honda Big Red 3-wheeler
1981 John Deer Snowmobile
197? Massey Ferguson Snowmobile
1969 Olds Cutlass "S"
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:51:44 PDT
From: "Adam O'Reilly" <sid13iwc@hotmail.com>
Subject: Date:	Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:51:44 PDT

i thought it would be a good idea to sign my e- mail address up on 
your site, but 230 messages a day  is a little ridiculous. so, please 
remove my name from your mailing list.

sincerely,
adam o'reilly

_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 13:40:12 -0400
From: Matt Cremean <creme1ma@cmich.edu>
Subject: Re: 

Adam O'Reilly wrote:
> 
> i thought it would be a good idea to sign my e- mail address up on
> your site, but 230 messages a day  is a little ridiculous. so, please
> remove my name from your mailing list.

Hi Adam, you can go here and do it yourself:
http://unsub.tsx.org/

- -- 
***********
Matt Cremean
mailto:creme1ma@cmich.edu
***********************
'70 Olds Cutlass 'S'
'73 Olds Cutlass Supreme
'75 Olds Cutlass 'S'
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/
*******************************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:06:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rock Man <rockman20@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: 

Adam, you could try digest mode.

- --- Adam O'Reilly <sid13iwc@hotmail.com> wrote:
> i thought it would be a good idea to sign my e- mail
> address up on 
> your site, but 230 messages a day  is a little
> ridiculous. so, please 
> remove my name from your mailing list.
> 
> sincerely,
> adam o'reilly
> 
>
_______________________________________________________________
> Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit
> http://www.msn.com
> 

===
Rock-Man's Page http://www.angelfire.com/nd/RockMan
rockman20@yahoo.com
1986 Honda Accord DX
1983 Honda Big Red 3-wheeler
1981 John Deer Snowmobile
197? Massey Ferguson Snowmobile
1969 Olds Cutlass "S"
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:07 
From: "John Carri" <jcarri@alesis1.usa.com>
Subject: Olds two, 300 Z zero...

Recently someone on the list (Igor?) posted the story of his 
straight-line speed contest with a Nissan 300Z twin-turbo; his 455 
Olds won handily. 

Yesterday I had an encounter with a 300Z myself, this time on the 
tight and twisty portion of the Pasadena Fwy (110 fwy). As I merged 
onto the fwy I saw the Z coming up rapidly in the left lane, and by 
the time I was up to 65mph he was a couple of car lengths ahead of me 
and pulling away at about 5mph faster than I was. Then one of the most 
challenging turns on the fwy came up - a long, high-speed, 
decreasing-radius turn that has a posted limit of 35 or 40mph, if I 
remember right. I know this stretch of the fwy well, my Olds has new 
and fairly sticky 225/60/16 tires on 16x8 Firebird wheels and a 1 1/4" 
front swaybar from a junkyard Trans Am and poly endlinks, and to cut 
the story short the 300Z kept slowing into the decreasing-radius turn, 
while Roger (my Supreme) kept accelerating all the way through it. By 
the time we got to the next straight Roger was several car-lengths 
ahead, and we (Roger and I) gained on that advantage through all the 
following turns till we ran out of fwy (it dead-ends into surface 
streets in the city of Pasadena).  Got a quick glimpse of the 
expression on the 300Z drivers face as my 27-year-old car with the 
vinyl roof(!) blew past him in that first turn, nice mixture of 
surprise and anger!  Bet his car cost about 20 times what mine did, 
too.

To be fair, I'm sure that the 300Z can outgrip and outhandle my Olds 
in the turns by a large margin with the right driver, but, what the 
hey, the guy in it wasn't the right driver! :)

Roger is all puffed up with self-satisfaction today, he practically 
purred on the way to work this morning. Me? I was just along for the 
ride, I wouldn't drive in a politically incorrect, socially 
irresponsible, or unsafe manner, no sirree, not I. It was all Roger's 
doing. Bad car! Bad, bad car!

- -John Carri
'72 Supreme 
'73 RoadRunner

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 13:34:48 -0700
From: Nancy Mylrea <nancy@osaminc.com>
Subject: 1980 442 W30

I have recently acquired a 1980 442 W30 white with gold trim. I have
just finished a complete overhaul of the engine. I am ready to begin
repainting, and I am interested in finding where I might get detailed
information on the paint scheme. If anyone has leads please let me know.
I have seen the two 442's that are on the internet, but it doesn't give
me detail. thanks,  Bud

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 14:20:31 EDT
From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Subject: Sorry......Mondello Quadrajet carburetor, Item #94270835

Apologies for referencing this bad site.

But....

When last we looked, the Mondello catalog had Edelbrock spreadbores.

Saw no mention of a "Mondello" brand carburetor.

Perhaps in the 1999 edition?

  :-)}

SOM

&KA

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 13:41:19 -0500
From: Brett Chaveriat <brett@mcs.com>
Subject: Re: Jefferson, WI - April 24 & 25

John, Todd, Paul, Keith, Kevin, and the others on the list,

	Okay, here is the scoop.  This is a car show, swap meet, and
a for-sale corral in Southeastern Wisconsin.  It is a couple hours
from Chicago.  It is a really nice show.  I sent the wrong web
site last time.  I sent the one for a sister show.  Sorry.  Here is 
the correct site...

http://www.cars-on-line.com/Jefferson.html

	I have proposed a meeting in the Olds area of the show by
my car on Sunday at 11.  The show is only on Sunday.  I have a 
Radiant Green 72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible with the striped OAI hood.  
If it is pouring, I may not show up.  Remember, put your cars into
the show to get much better parking (closer and usually not muddy). 

	If anyone else plans to attend, please copy this list, and
add yourself to it and repost to the Olds list.  I have added Kevin, 
and it appears that Dave Brown is considering attending.   Come on,
Chicago readers, this is in our back yard.  Let's make this the next
Chicago area get together.  It has been a long time since the old
Fudds meetings.  


John     - 72 Hurst
Todd     - 69 rag top
Keith    - 70 442 - Light blue 
Brett    - 72 bright green Cutlass conv't with OAI hood
Paul     - ?
Kevin    - 1972 Cutlass Supreme - Saddle Bronze with
           (not original, obviously) spoiler.

- -- 

Brett Chaveriat

mailto:brett@mcs.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 14:46:46 EDT
From: Harrell17@aol.com
Subject: Re: TH400 mounts - was 350 swap

I hooked a tape over the front of the flywheel and pulled to the center of 
tha bolt holes in the tranny where the mount bolts and as I recall it was 27 
1/2 inchs. I have heard now that I need to get the crossmember for the 400TH 
which is supposedly different and it has to come out of a Convertable because 
I am told tha Conv. and Vista Cruiser had a different frame than the hard 
tops. And you know those babies ain't just laying around everywhere.  Thanks, 
Jim

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 14:52:27 EDT
From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Subject: Non Olds Delete was: Jefferson, WI - April 24 & 25

Sorry, we consider ourselves in same neighborhood.

However, recent purchases (and the sun) prohibit our going abroad.

If Karl's workplace did not drive him to drink it might be possible.

Look forward to meeting all of your Oldsmobiles next year.

SOM

&KA

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 14:54:19 EDT
From: Harrell17@aol.com
Subject: Re: 350/455 swap (was 350/455 motor mounts)

The bolts for the mount are in the main body of the tranny not in the 
tailshaft housing so changing the tail shaft shouldn't make a difference. Jim

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:58:08 +0000
From: Cliff Simpson <csimpson@ucalgary.ca>
Subject: Re: Olds two, 300 Z zero...

John Carri wrote:
>  Bad car! Bad, bad car!

Bad car, go to the garage.  Bad car, no regular gas, only premium for you. 
Bad, bad car, you are getting washed and waxed and tuned up this weekend.

That'll teach him for picking on foreign sports cars :))
- -- 

Cliff Simpson
mailto://csimpson@ucalgary.ca
'69 442,400,th400,3.31p (Kermit)
http://www.acs.ucalgary.ca/~csimpson/TheOldsZone.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 15:35:20 -0700
From: Greg Pruett <gregp@rbnet.com>
Subject: Re: Olds two, 300 Z zero...

Cliff Simpson wrote:
> 
> John Carri wrote:
> >  Bad car! Bad, bad car!
> 
> Bad car, go to the garage.  Bad car, no regular gas, only premium for you.
> Bad, bad car, you are getting washed and waxed and tuned up this weekend.
> 
> That'll teach him for picking on foreign sports cars :))

My Vista Criuser went bad on me one afternoon on the highway a couple of
years ago.  The road was clear exept for a porche something-or-other and
a 300ZX.  The porche and the Z took off as the higway widened to 3 lanes
and began ascending a steep grade.  The Yellow Submarine (My 'cruiser)
wanted to play too.  Before I knew it we were 3 abreast running uphill
as the speedometer climbed to the triple digit end of the scale.  We
leveled off and cruised for maybe 90 seconds before we ran back into
traffic and had to drop off to about 70mph.

I'm not saying my 'cruiser could outrun a porche or a 300Z but I'm sure
I gave 'em something to talk about. :)  

Greg Pruett
72 Vista Cruiser
67 Cutlass Supreme
80 Cutlass Calais
73 98 LS

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 14:43:26 -0500 (CDT)
From: blue442@webtv.net (Jeff Carter)
Subject: Re: Olds two, 300 Z zero...

I was out cruising in my 442 with a friend late one night last summer.
A 300Z twin turbo pulled up beside us at a red light.  We had a short
but Olds dominated race.  Afterwards, we pulled over to talk and inside
the 300 were two of the best looking girls I've ever seen.  

Driving the 442 on a warm Friday night is definitely my favorite way to
meet girls.

Jeff Carter

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 15:48:35 EDT
From: KarlAunan@aol.com
Subject: Rocket Talk

yes.

We know thursday is the usual day.
but Karl has been doing 9+ hour days and been unable to participate in even 
the typical ICQ banter.

Anyone interested in discussing Oldsmobiles on friday night should tune in to 
the "Rocket Talk" chat room found at:

www.lyrea.com/~buehner

Forgive if Karl is late.
He should show at 8:30 central time (daylight savings....)

If you have anything else of importance to do on Friday night, go ahead and 
do it!

SOM

&KA

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 16:15:12 -0500
From: "Lou Biggs" <lbiggs@intertek.net>
Subject: See you all later

All;
Will be off the list a (hopefully) short while. Have to get back repaired,
gotten worse by the week. Can't sit at the desk for than about 10 minutes
at a time. Have fun at Carlisle. Changing Doc's.. Will see the new one
Monday, lost 5 weeks of work, can't eat that way. I'll still be on the net.
Can't remain sitting long enough to read the posts, will miss that. Take
care.
Lou (Master) Biggs
lbiggs@intertek.net
oca#31353

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 17:31:42 -0400
From: J Chermack/C&M Classic Parts <chermac@exis.net>
Subject: Re: Rocket Talk

Karl and all

        I'll be there!

Jim Chermack


At 03:48 PM 4/23/1999 , you wrote:
>yes.
>
>We know thursday is the usual day.
>but Karl has been doing 9+ hour days and been unable to participate in even 
>the typical ICQ banter.
>
>Anyone interested in discussing Oldsmobiles on friday night should tune in to 
>the "Rocket Talk" chat room found at:
>
>www.lyrea.com/~buehner
>
>Forgive if Karl is late.
>He should show at 8:30 central time (daylight savings....)
>
>If you have anything else of importance to do on Friday night, go ahead and 
>do it!
>
>SOM
>
>&KA

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 17:32:29 -0400
From: J Chermack/C&M Classic Parts <chermac@exis.net>
Subject: Re: See you all later

Lou

        Take care and get well. We'll miss you.

Jim Chermack

At 05:15 PM 4/23/1999 , you wrote:
>All;
>Will be off the list a (hopefully) short while. Have to get back repaired,
>gotten worse by the week. Can't sit at the desk for than about 10 minutes
>at a time. Have fun at Carlisle. Changing Doc's.. Will see the new one
>Monday, lost 5 weeks of work, can't eat that way. I'll still be on the net.
>Can't remain sitting long enough to read the posts, will miss that. Take
>care.
>Lou (Master) Biggs
>lbiggs@intertek.net
>oca#31353

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 15:34:43 +0000
From: Cliff Simpson <csimpson@ucalgary.ca>
Subject: Re: Rocket Talk

I'll be there about 5 minutes (long enough to get a cold "pop" and some tunes)
after the wife leaves with the kids for the outlaws.
- -- 

Cliff Simpson
mailto://csimpson@ucalgary.ca
'69 442,400,th400,3.31p (Kermit)
http://www.acs.ucalgary.ca/~csimpson/TheOldsZone.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 16:27:33 -0500 (CDT)
From: George <cutlass@one.camd.lsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Rocket Talk

I am supposed to work tonight, that means: Yes, I am going to be there 
too. We have got to find out what kind of job gets karl close to the edge 
and do something about it... maybe SOM is going to be there too and she 
can help us...

George


On Fri, 23 Apr 1999 KarlAunan@aol.com wrote:

> yes.
> 
> We know thursday is the usual day.
> but Karl has been doing 9+ hour days and been unable to participate in even 
> the typical ICQ banter.
> 
> Anyone interested in discussing Oldsmobiles on friday night should tune in 
to 
> the "Rocket Talk" chat room found at:
> 
> www.lyrea.com/~buehner
> 
> Forgive if Karl is late.
> He should show at 8:30 central time (daylight savings....)
> 
> If you have anything else of importance to do on Friday night, go ahead and 
> do it!
> 
> SOM
> 
> &KA
> 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 16:43:37 -0500
From: Martin Thomas-WLTM07 <Thomas.Martin@motorola.com>
Subject: Torque Plus Intake Gaskets

Has anyone ever used the Torque Plus intake gaskets?  Are they the bathtub
or are they a 2 piece and no tub?

I had them on my 80 T/A with a 70 455 Pontiac and they did gain me about .5
mpg (if you can call that any gain at all....) but cold weather driveability
was improved a little.

Thomas Martin
80 Turbo Trans AM 400 Pontiac Power!
85 Cutlass Supreme Rocket 350 CCC
91 Bonneville LE 3800 Buick Power!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 17:52:30 EDT
From: Biscayne2d@aol.com
Subject: Headers

Ok guys I need to find a really cheap set of used headers that will fit a 79 
Cutlass with a 307. I am on a very limited budget and am almost done with the 
car but the whole exhaust is rotten. Rather than spend all the money (witch i 
am very short on) to replace the whole factory exhaust I want to just run 
headers and short duel exhaust Can someone PLEASE help me??

Paul in WI
79 In need of exhaust

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 14:55:36 PDT
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: 230 messages a day

> I thought it would be a good idea to sign my e- mail address up on 
> your site, but 230 messages a day  is a little ridiculous. so,
> please remove my name from your mailing list.

...leading me to ask once again whether it wouldn't be a better idea 
to have new subscribers added to the Digest by default? They could 
migrate to the real-time list once they understood the traffic levels.

- -- Andy

_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 15:02:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Livingston <john@johnlivingston.com>
Subject: First Olds Buying Help

I've been on this list just a couple of weeks and have been amazed and
impressed with all the great help and knowledge available (is that enough
sucking up?). I'm looking for some pointers on what to look for and look
out for in buying an A body convertible.

I've owned mostly (dare I say it) foreign stuff to date, still hanging on
to a 68 280SL and and 86 VW Cabriolet. My dad corrupted the family by
lending us his big old Fleetwood for the last couple of years. It seems
they like all that legroom out back, particularly now that my 14 year old
son is taller than his 50 year old dad. I think we've compromised (we were
looking at Eldos!) on a solid 68 to 72 Cutlass convt., hopefully near
$10,000. This car will be used frequently to get me to work (20 mostly
highway miles round trip), longer trips, and just general
close-to-daily-driver duty.

I've come across some nearly-affordable 442s that are very tempting. These
are generally high mileage but well-maintained. I'm hoping to get some
advice on any headaches to look out for.

Specifically, I like the looks of the 68, but in looking at the Year One
catalog, see only steering column bits for 69 on. Is that something to look
out for? I also don't see, in the same catalog, gauge repairs offered for
anything other than the clock & tach. One car I'm considering has a bad
fuel gauge. If it's not the sender, am I in a world of hurt or do I just
make a habit of not passing gas stations?

I'd like to upgrade to front disks on whatever we buy, assuming it doesn't
already have them. Any estimates on what this might cost?

Would you consider it likely that engine's that've been rebuilt in the last
few years have hardened valve seats?

Any other tips or suggestions (other than going to Carlisle - my wife
already has me booked this weekend) would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

John in Newport News, VA

PS Almost forgot, the ragtop's gotta go like stink!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 16:55:05 -0500 (CDT)
From: George <cutlass@one.camd.lsu.edu>
Subject: Re: 230 messages a day

Well, 

The problem is that the people don't read their instructions and don't 
take this serious enough. I don't want to be unfair but I think it is 
their problem if they can't unsub or move their traffic to another 
address after they realize what is going on. C'mon, this is basics!
  
You would not be fair to all the newcomers that know what they are doing 
if you would treat them like kids and let them only subscribe to digest. 
How are you going to sort that out anyway. One would want to do that 
automatically and that seems at least not trivial. If I unsub and 
sub again because I move my olds email to another address, how do you 
know that I am still the same guy? That would include asking for personal 
information etc. 

$0.02, Regards, George

On Fri, 23 Apr 1999, Andrew C. Green wrote:

> > I thought it would be a good idea to sign my e- mail address up on 
> > your site, but 230 messages a day  is a little ridiculous. so,
> > please remove my name from your mailing list.
> 
> ...leading me to ask once again whether it wouldn't be a better idea 
> to have new subscribers added to the Digest by default? They could 
> migrate to the real-time list once they understood the traffic levels.
> 
> -- Andy
> 
> _______________________________________________________________
> Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
> 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 15:10:23 PDT
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: More Adventures From Inside The Dash...LONG, INTERESTING

> I have a variable (Gauge package) oil pressure sending unit, and
> the stock (idiot lights) temperature sending unit.

...meaning that you haven't replaced the temperature warning light 
switch with a temperature sending unit yet?

> Temp Gauge - Pegged at Zero (all the way to the left)

That would figure; until the car overheats, the warning light switch 
isn't going to ground this gauge at all.

> Oil Gauge - Pegged at Max (all the way to the right)
> Oil Idiot Light - DIM, and it varies in intensity depending
> on whether you rev the motor, have it in gear, etc (i.e.,
> the idiot light is acting like a gauge)

Agreed; it sounds like you have the leads reversed, assuming your 
engine does indeed have both a pressure sending unit and a pressure 
warning switch installed somewhere now (such as teed onto the same 
port).

> 1.	If I pull the dual wire Oil Pressure connector out of the
> I.C. wiring harness, THE OIL GAUGE WORKS CORRECTLY.  Of course,
> by doing this the Oil idiot light will never work. It appears
> that running the gauge cluster's signal through the dash causes
> a short of some kind (OR SOMETHING).

This is a little too confusing to diagnose; let me go back to first 
principles: What pressure sensors do you have on the engine now? You 
have one _switch_ type for the low-pressure light, and one 
sending-unit type for the gauge, right? You have a separate wire for 
each which goes nowhere but between sending unit and dashboard, right?
 
> I GET MOVEMENT ON THE TEMPERATURE GAUGE (it also appears to
> be pretty  accurate, as in "It's working"). This is of course
> extremely surprising, because remember this is the STOCK
> temperature sending unit (which is supposed to only have two
> positions, and not be variable at all).

Right, so track the wire and figure out where the hell it's going, 
since you know it's not connected to a temperature sensor, so where 
_is_ it going...?

> Pulling the power wire out of the I.C. wiring harness, of
> course, causes the  "CHARGE" idiot light to come on (dimly
> - not as bright as when it's plugged in and you turn the key
> to "ON" (without starting the car).

I think this means you have a stray current somewhere else that's 
using this circuit as a ground.

> 3. WHY IS THIS SO FRIGGIN' COMPLICATED? It was my understanding
> (perhaps "hope" is a better word) that the only differences
> between a Gauge-car and an Idiot light-car was the (a) senders,
> (b) wiring harness, and (c) the gauges themselves.  I'm not
> really frustrated, just puzzled.

I think it's complicated because you're running current through 
partially-disassembled circuits and grounds, and it's taking different 
paths because of that, leading to weird results. I wouldn't worry too 
much about stuff acting weird while you've got half of it 
disconnected; just pay attention to the wiring you are working on and 
make sure it goes only where you need it to go. I would be more 
confident of _adding_ additional wire for the gauges, rather than 
trying to tap into existing wires, since you're then cutting a gauge 
into gawd-knows-what and getting weird readouts as a result.

- -- Andy

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:28:59 EDT
From: GT5726@aol.com
Subject: Re: Mechanical failure: Aftermarket gauges:Electronic/Mechanical

In a message dated 4/23/99 10:54:41 AM Central Daylight Time, 
KarlAunan@aol.com writes:

<< 
 This nylon tubing has failed on a few occasions that the above mentioned 
 persons have heard of.
 
 One failure resulted in a low oil condition.
 
 The other anecdote was motor oil spraying  from the dashboard.
 
 We'll take electric oil pressure guages for $1000, Alex.
  >>
  This is exactly why I chose to use copper tubing instead of the supplied 
nylon tubing that came with my AutoMeter gauges.

Collyn 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:34:13 EDT
From: GT5726@aol.com
Subject: Rocket Talk!!!!   

cooooooooollll. I'm gonna be there!

Collyn 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 15:33:00 PDT
From: "Ryan D" <riviera72sss@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Jefferson, WI - April 24 & 25

>
>	Okay, here is the scoop.  This is a car show, swap meet, and
>a for-sale corral in Southeastern Wisconsin.  It is a couple hours
>from Chicago.  It is a really nice show.  I sent the wrong web
>site last time.  I sent the one for a sister show.  Sorry.  Here is 
>the correct site...
>
>http://www.cars-on-line.com/Jefferson.html
>
>	I have proposed a meeting in the Olds area of the show by
>my car on Sunday at 11.  The show is only on Sunday.  I have a 
>Radiant Green 72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible with the striped OAI 
hood.  
>If it is pouring, I may not show up.  Remember, put your cars into
>the show to get much better parking (closer and usually not muddy). 
>
>	If anyone else plans to attend, please copy this list, and
>add yourself to it and repost to the Olds list.  I have added Kevin, 
>and it appears that Dave Brown is considering attending.   Come on,
>Chicago readers, this is in our back yard.  Let's make this the next
>Chicago area get together.  It has been a long time since the old
>Fudds meetings.  
>
>
>John     - 72 Hurst
>Todd     - 69 rag top
>Keith    - 70 442 - Light blue 
>Brett    - 72 bright green Cutlass conv't with OAI hood
>Paul     - ?
>Kevin    - 1972 Cutlass Supreme - Saddle Bronze with
>           (not original, obviously) spoiler.
>Ryan     - 75 delta 88(not going) : (


 P.S im only going on saterday,will some of you be thare saterday?


Thanks
      Ryan.
>

 
  My  -------   ------- 
            /  | 
           /   | 
          /     ------ 
         /            | 
        /             | 
       /        ------    DELTA 88 
Ryan D Beck 
           Riviera72sss@hotmail.com 


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------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #1920
*********************************

