Please respond to oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
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cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #1903


oldsmobile-digest       Tuesday, April 13 1999       Volume 01 : Number 1903



[none]
Starfire V8
Re: Rare parts
UNBOUNCE: NOS '67 Q-jet FS
new interior in '71 cutlass (panels/carpet)
Re: 350 big block vs 350 small block?
Re: Door Panel carpet resto
Re: Starfire V8
Re: Electrical Help Needed!!!
Re: Engine Removal
Carlisle
Re: Flickering lights
Re: Need Other GM Mailing List (non-Olds)
Spring (Olds) fever ?'s
Re: Starfire V8
Re: 350 big block vs 350 small block?
Re: new interior in '71 cutlass (panels/carpet)
Re: Title search
Brackets
weird math
Re: Carlisle
Re: Spring (Olds) fever ?'s
Re: 350 big block vs 350 small block?
Re: Need Other GM Mailing List (non-Olds)
68 air cleaner color???
marine accel pump in Q-jet was : Spring fever
'68 Cutlass 'S' Trim Part Needed
buick wheel for 68 cutlass?
Re: 68 air cleaner color???
Re: Need Other GM Mailing List (non-Olds)
Re: Electrical Help Needed!!!
Re: Carlisle
Re: weird math
Air Shocks
Re: Starfire V8
Re: Carlisle
Re: 68 air cleaner color???
Re: 68 air cleaner color???
Carlisle - Who's going?
Rebuld tips?
Re: Carlisle - Who's going?
RE: Carlisle - When? Suggested logistics?
Re: those 1LE 12" disk brakes..
Re: 77 Pace car id
RE: Carlisle - When? Suggested logistics?
Dual Exhaust
Re: buick wheel for 68 cutlass?
Re: Starfire V8
RE: Jetaway 2-Speed Transmission
Re: Steering gearbox
Jetaway to TH350 
grill to 79 cutlass
rod-stroke ratio and cosine loss of horsepower
Re: Jetaway to TH350

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 18:08:54 -0400
From: "Kelly McCuller" <mcculler@real3d.com>
Subject: [none]

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 07:55:02 +0500
From: Bob Brandys <oehcs@flash.net>
Subject: Starfire V8

Does anyone know the original horsepower and torque rating of the
turbocharge 215 V-8 in the 62-63 starfire?

Bob Brandys
oehcs@flash.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 08:04:23 +0500
From: Bob Brandys <oehcs@flash.net>
Subject: Re: Rare parts

Does anyone know of people who have collected old inventories of
oldsmobile parts from the 70 88 and 98s? I am looking for parts fromt
the ACRS (air cushion restraint system.?

Bob Brandys
oehcs@flash.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:21:52 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: UNBOUNCE: NOS '67 Q-jet FS

Not on the list; respond to DESADVHEMI@aol.com if interested.

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:	DESADVHEMI@aol.com
Subject: n.o.s. quadrajet

forsale: n.o.s. quadrajet 4bbl 67 oldsmobile#7027156 in the box $200.00 
desadvhemi@aol.com  thank you  JOE

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 08:20:16 -0500
From: "Greg" <zimmermangm@email.msn.com>
Subject: new interior in '71 cutlass (panels/carpet)

I'm looking into replacing the pearl white interior door panels in my '71
convertible cutlass supreme.  I noticed Year One has unassembled and
assembled ones.  I've also noticed in the Fusick catalog, they only carry
unassembled because the others don't meet their quality standards.  My
originals are in okay shape, the vinyl is worn through on the corners and
the chrome around the "wood" is gone.  The black carpet at the bottom also
needs replacing (it turned purple).

I also need new black carpeting.  Is there any differences between vendors?
Year One's in under $100 before shipping.  I'm expecting some pretty heavy
rust on the floor panels, what the best do-it-yourself quick fix for that?
I'm thinking of grinding it down a little bit and treating with some sort of
chemical.  If I can see the road when I pull out the carpet, I was thinking
of some thin steel plate to be welded in (cheaply, I hope).

Has anyone done this themselves?  I'd appreciate some tips from experience
before I tackle this myself.

thanks,
greg z

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 06:39:47 PDT
From: "OldsMaster Erickson" <cutlassnep@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: 350 big block vs 350 small block?

Yeah, the 425 and the 455.
Kelly Erickson
15years Old, and showin' what Olds's are made of...:)


>From: "Glen Hankins" <hankins5@hit.net>
>Reply-To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
>To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
>Subject: Re: 350 big block vs 350 small block?
>Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:17:51 -0500
>
>
>Karl-
>
>I believe there were also short and long stroke versions of the 425.
>
>GBH
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: KarlAunan@aol.com <KarlAunan@aol.com>
>To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
>Date: Monday, April 12, 1999 1:26 pm
>Subject: Re: 350 big block vs 350 small block?
>
>
>>In a message dated 99-04-12 13:24:13 EDT, you write:
>>
>><<  400 (big block - short and long stroke)
>> Ford - 352 FE (big block), 351 Windsor (small block), 351 
Cleveland (other
>>small
>> block), 351M (modified Cleveland) >>
>>
>>Thanks Joe!
>>
>>1) Karl was not aware that there were different manifestations of 
the 400
>>Olds, but it does stand to reason.
>>
>>2) Leave it to Frog Motor Company (no offence J McJunkin): 
Confusion is Job
>1.
>>
>>SOM
>>
>>&KA
>>
>
>


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:46:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: vfquick442@webtv.net (markas)
Subject: Re: Door Panel carpet resto

Listers, Learned a great trick for restoring door panel carpet.Get RIT
black dye. Mix with alcohol, Put in pressurized spray bottle.Mask off
panel. Go to it. 2-3 coats works best. It is permanent and looks new. I
got idea from lady who dyes silk flowers.Sounded crazy enough to work
and after 3 years my panels look like new
and it beats buying new carpet.
Markas
                                                   70 442
P.S.  never tried on floor and advise taking umbrella out of beer first
Karl!!  (lol)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:59:11 EDT
From: Oldsfire@aol.com
Subject: Re: Starfire V8

If I'm not mistaken, that engine was never in a Starfire.  I think it was in 
some of the little F-85 bodies!!  John    Oldsfire@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 07:25:45 PDT
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Electrical Help Needed!!!

> think you got that orientation backwards the internal variety is
> _ _ and the external type is I I this ascii art stuff is hokey....KK

No, it's correct, and I'm saying the same thing you're saying anyway.

Put it another way: an internally-regulated alternator has the two 
side terminals set side by side, connected on their short edges:
[--][--]

An externally-regulated alternator has the two connectors stacked, 
connected on their long sides:
[--]
[--]

Does that make it any clearer?

- -- Andy

_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 07:37:37 -0700
From: "Larry Pegg" <nurelic@primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Engine Removal

All of the finished engines we put on the dyno we use a plate Very Expensive
Engines,  The guys I work with have been at the engine building game for
over 70 years combined.  If they don't worry about a $20,000 why should I.
By your logic I should never attempt a home rebuild because some fail.  If a
person checks the condition of the threads then the weight of the engine
will not pull out the bolts.

No disrespect I just have a different opinion.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Cliff Simpson <csimpson@ucalgary.ca>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Saturday, April 10, 1999 12:46 PM
Subject: Re: Engine Removal


>
>Larry Pegg wrote:
>>
>> Just put my fully dressed 455 Iron manifolds and all in my cruiser.  No
>> problem.  I have used the plate on all my motors since I got it Aluminum
or
>> Iron makes no diff.
>
>If 1 out of 100 aluminum intakes failed while the engine was hanging in
>the air then I would consider it too many.  I just wouldn't trust it
>even if it has worked for someone else.  With steel, sure no problem.
>
>Maybe I'm getting too darn cautious in my old age.
>--
>
>Cliff Simpson
>mailto:csimpson@ucalgary.ca
>'69 442/400/th400/3.31p (Kermit)
>http://www.acs.ucalgary.ca/~csimpson/TheOldsZone.html
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:31:54 EDT
From: Anyolds4me@aol.com
Subject: Carlisle

List:

What is the best day to go to Carlisle to look for parts?  How about other 
cars?  Not sure if they have it broken down by day or not.  I will only be 
able to get up there on Sat and Sun.  My parents live right on the border of 
Maryland and Penn., about 15 miles from Carlisle.  Are the chances good on 
finding parts for a 71 and 72 Cutlass?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 07:34:03 PDT
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Flickering lights

> My lights, radio, etc. flicker between bright and not. I was told
> it might be the voltage regulator but I do not know what that looks
> like or where it is located.  (I am new to this old car thing).
> The car is a 1970 oldsmobile 98.

It's a squarish little metal box bolted to the firewall with a row of 
wires plugged in along the bottom. It may have "AC Delco" in raised 
letters stamped on the front. You might want to buy its replacement 
from the auto parts store first, and you'll know what you're looking 
for on the firewall. I know Trak Auto sells original AC-Delco 
regulators, although they're starting to get harder to find.

> Any help would be appreciated, or the name of a book I can order.

I think a lot of people here would tell you to find the original 
factory manual, either by mail order somewhere or at a swap meet. I 
know I would.

> I can't find a chilton's on the car: is there a book (or company)
> devoted to oldsmobiles (especially 98's)?

As far as the voltage regulator is concerned, any public library will 
have older Chilton repair manuals; just pick one which covers the year 
of your car, flip to the GM section and there'll be several pages on 
how to calibrate and adjust the old mechanical voltage regulator that 
you have. (I think a lot of balky old regulators can be fixed, but the 
process is so fiddly and tedious that it's easier to swap in a new one 
while they're still available.)

- -- Andy

_______________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 07:40:19 PDT
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Need Other GM Mailing List (non-Olds)

>Can anyone here direct me to a Cadillac mailing list?

The authoritative auto mailing-list list is Richard Welty's, at
ftp://ftp.wizvax.net/pub/personal/rwelty/Autos/mailing-lists.text

Unfortunately I don't see a Cadillac entry there.

- -- Andy

_______________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:40:11 -0500
From: "Roger Hitson" <hitson@i1.net>
Subject: Spring (Olds) fever ?'s

Must be the weather. Just keep wanting to fidlle with my Olds more & more. 
Some kind of sickness involving obsessions.....

To the questions:

1. Marine accelerator pump in Q-jet, anyone using that? If so, pros & cons, 
please.

2. Swapping torque convertors: How much trouble? (Given no lift --- just 
decent home shadetree facilities) What involved? 


tia
roger hitson

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:45:22 EDT
From: HURSTOLDZ@aol.com
Subject: Re: Starfire V8

The 215 did not come in the Starfire   your thinking of the Jetfire    The 
starfire from 61-64 had the 394

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 07:53:55 -0700
From: "Larry Pegg" <nurelic@primenet.com>
Subject: Re: 350 big block vs 350 small block?

I believe this is an over simplification of the 350BB 350SB comparison.  If
both engines have the same displacement then ether they have the same bore
and stroke or they don't.  If they do then the smallblock wins on weight.
If they don't then the one with the shorter stroke (meaning bigger bore and
larger valves) wins the horsepower race based on better breathing and less
ring drag at higher rpm The one with the longer stroke MAY make more torque
but it is not a given.  Reason ?  smaller bore smaller valves.

Hp = (torque*rpm) / 5250      torque = force   horsepower = work
- -----Original Message-----
From: GT5726@aol.com <GT5726@aol.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Saturday, April 10, 1999 7:53 PM
Subject: Re: 350 big block vs 350 small block?


>In a message dated 4/10/99 7:43:12 PM Central Daylight Time,
>sgadecki@yahoo.com writes:
>
><<
>   What's the difference between a 350 big block and a 350 small block
> (chevy I guess?)  A buddy of mine was talking to somebody, and they
> said that a 350 big block is more powerful?  Isn't 350 cubic inches 350
> cubic inches, no matter how you look at it?  Am I mising something?
>
> Thanks,
>      Stefan
>      1970 Cutlass 'S' Holiday Coupe >>
>
>
>Well...ehhh hmmmm...Assuming you can find a "350 BIG block" to compare to a
>350 small block, the big block would win the races. I am justifing this
>because , even if both engines had identical torque and HP , the big block
>would most likely have a much flatter torque curve. The torque curve on the
>big block would come in lower and stay healthier for more RPM than the
small
>blocks inherently peaky performance. It has been said, more than once, that
>torque wins races, HP sells cars.
>
>Collyn Eastham
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:41:51 -0500 (CDT)
From: George <cutlass@one.camd.lsu.edu>
Subject: Re: new interior in '71 cutlass (panels/carpet)

> I'm looking into replacing the pearl white interior door panels in my '71
> convertible cutlass supreme.  I noticed Year One has unassembled and
> assembled ones.  I've also noticed in the Fusick catalog, they only carry
> unassembled because the others don't meet their quality standards.  My
> originals are in okay shape, the vinyl is worn through on the corners and
> the chrome around the "wood" is gone.  The black carpet at the bottom also
> needs replacing (it turned purple).
Well, if Fusick claims the unassembled ones are better, get them!

> I also need new black carpeting.  Is there any differences between vendors?
As far as I know most of the stuff is fabricated by one place and all the 
others sell it. I am not 100% positive about this but I am sure here you 
can go with the lowest price which is mostly the place that makes them. 
(Fusick seems to be closest to the source mostly and I like Fusicks 
best.) 

> Year One's in under $100 before shipping.  I'm expecting some pretty heavy
> rust on the floor panels, what the best do-it-yourself quick fix for that?
I would only go at it when it is surface rust. Take a big screwdriver and 
hit your floorpan real hard with it at doubtful spots. If you break thru 
it is time for new floorpans. 

If you don't break thru: take a grinder or a drill and put a wire brush 
wheel on it. (please wear safety goggles!) Brush it really well until the 
bare metal shows shining everywhere and then put some anti rust primer in 
a thick layer (rather brushing than spraying) on it. You will have to do 
this also from underneath the car since that is where the rust mainly sits 
except the car has been flooded and it got lotsa rust from the top.

> If I can see the road when I pull out the carpet, I was thinking
> of some thin steel plate to be welded in (cheaply, I hope).
I would not start patching it with sheet metal. You should put new floor 
pans in it then. If you don't weld yourself you can prepare it buying 
panels and cutting out the old ones with a grinder. Then prepare it for 
welding (get the bare metal out where it will be welded) and bring it to 
the body shop or regular shop of your choice. (I have a regular shop here 
that welds for $40 an hour.) That way it will cost you in the range of 
$ 150-300 for the new floor pans. (I am talking about the front pans 
only.) You can paint the new pans with undercoating from underneath and 
some primer from the top. 

Don't forget that you will need insulator (cushion) between the carpet 
and the floor mainly for noise insulation and also for the right feeling 
when the ladies take off the shoes...

Hope this helps, George

- --------------------------------------------------------------
'68 Cuttlass S Conv. 
http://estimator.camd.lsu.edu/georg/sparetime/olds.html
- --------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 07:51:06 PDT
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg_o@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Title search

> Are there any reputable places that any of you know of that will
> do a title search? Or any other leads that you might have? 

http://www.carfax.com will search records for the car's VIN that you 
provide. Last time I used them I called their 800 number, read them 
the VIN of the car I was planning to buy and my credit card number (I 
think it was $19.95 at the time), and they faxed me back listings 
showing its history: date of first sale, selling dealer, mileage, 
terms of the purchase (leased), and details of its trade-in. Basically 
it lists all the transactions for that VIN and allows you to spot 
odometer rollbacks, salvage titles and that sort of thing, although it 
doesn't identify owners by name.

Anyway, your problem is really with the state here. I think you need 
to find a contact at the Secretary of State's office who knows the 
procedure for dealing with a lost title. I mean, there must _be_ a 
procedure, otherwise what do they do: send Aunt Martha's '95 Cadillac 
to the crusher because she can't find the title?

Typically you post a bond to the state of "x" dollars to say that 
you're claiming ownership. If some period of time (maybe a year or 
two) elapses and no one else files a claim to your car, your bond is 
refunded and a clear title is issued.

- -- Andy

_______________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 07:52:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: richard strachan <creature48212@yahoo.com>
Subject: Brackets

Hello fellow car nuts
I have 69 Cutlass 'S' with a 73 350 4bbl.I'm putting on the old
components(Alt.,P/S pump,Brackets) from the engine that was removed.
That engine was a 74/75 Olds 350 4bbl. from a station wagon i was told
from previous
owner. I installed the P/S and Alt. and looks like 
there is suppose to be two brackets that attach to  
both P/S and Alt. to the engine( Are these brackets required because
the bracket for the Alt. to eng. 
does't seem to line up quite right? On the P/S pump
the stud and bolt that attaches the pump doesn't seem
to hold it real well.Is there a bracket to connect the 
P/S pump to engine and is it necessary? My pulleys on 
my P/S pump and Alternator don't seem to line up with
engine and waterpump pulleys.My eng. and waterpump are three groove
pulleys.My alt is one groove and the 
P/S is a two groove pulley.Can you buy a set of pulleys for a 73 350
4bbl non A/C car or do you have to find them in the junk yard? And do
all Olds pulleys interchange with each other? 
 TIA Rick
 Detroit
 69 Cuatlass 'S'
 
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:02:49 -0500
From: "Michael Kantowski" <mkantowski@mcguireng.com>
Subject: weird math

>I believe this is an over simplification of the 350BB 350SB comparison.  If
>both engines have the same displacement then ether they have the same bore
>and stroke or they don't.  If they do then the smallblock wins on weight.
>If they don't then the one with the shorter stroke (meaning bigger bore and
>larger valves) wins the horsepower race based on better breathing and less
>ring drag at higher rpm The one with the longer stroke MAY make more torque
>but it is not a given.  Reason ?  smaller bore smaller valves.
>
>Hp = (torque*rpm) / 5250      torque = force   horsepower = work

I don't know a lot about engines, but these formulas a little fishy... For
example: Horsepower = work/time. It's a power measurement like Watts.  Just
being tedious, but I hate to see formulas that are confusing.  Not raggin'
on ya, just a general beef about some of the shotty math I see thrown up
from time to time.  Mean no disrespect to anyone's math, as long as it works
for you!

- -Mike Kantowski

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:24:57 -0400
From: Gene Gilpin <ggilpin@wrallp.com>
Subject: Re: Carlisle

At 10:31 AM 4/13/99 EDT, you wrote:
>List:
>
>What is the best day to go to Carlisle to look for parts?  How about other 
>cars?  Not sure if they have it broken down by day or not.  I will only be 
>able to get up there on Sat and Sun.  My parents live right on the border of 
>Maryland and Penn., about 15 miles from Carlisle.  Are the chances good on 
>finding parts for a 71 and 72 Cutlass?
>



Any day is a good day for Carlisle. Its not broken down by anything. It's
just ALL THERE! Everyday it changes. If you can't find parts for a '71-'72
Cutlass at Carlisle than you might as well give it up and sell your car and
buy a Toyota. If it was made, you'll find one at Carlisle. I usually go on
Sat too. I go every year to all 3 big swaps and also hit the Mopar only
show too. (No Mopar cracks!) This year I'm taking an extra day off and
going Friday and Sat. I only wish I had a truck load of money and a couple
Semi's to haul it all home.:) Just be ready to walk your ass off.

Omega Man
'74 Omega S 455

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:39:52 -0400
From: Gene Gilpin <ggilpin@wrallp.com>
Subject: Re: Spring (Olds) fever ?'s

To swap the torque converter you need to do everything you'd need to do to
change the transmission. Get the car as high off the ground as you can.
Drop the drive shaft. Remove shift linkage and kickdown. Drop the cross
member. ((Make sure you have something holding up your engine so when you
remove the cross member your engine doesn't pivot back on the rubber mounts
and damage the distributor against the firewall. Engine crane and chain is
best. Floor jack with piece of 2x4 under the oil pan will work too. Just
don't jack straight against the pan.)) Remove the tranny and swap
converters and put'er all back together. Since you'll have the tranny out
anyway, that would be a perfect time to go over that also. If it's in good
shape I'd at least put in a new filter and a shift kit and gasket. Takes
about 20min and $25 to do that. I'd also get a pan with a drain plug at
this time too. They save a mess on the garage floor.

Omega Man
'74 Omega S 455





At 09:40 AM 4/13/99 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>Must be the weather. Just keep wanting to fidlle with my Olds more & more.
Some kind of sickness involving obsessions.....
>
>To the questions:
>
>1. Marine accelerator pump in Q-jet, anyone using that? If so, pros &
cons, please.
>
>2. Swapping torque convertors: How much trouble? (Given no lift --- just
decent home shadetree facilities) What involved? 
>
>
>tia
>roger hitson
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:02:20 -0500
From: "Glen Hankins" <hankins5@hit.net>
Subject: Re: 350 big block vs 350 small block?

One other factor to consider in the big block vs. small block debate is
lifter diameter.  Admittedly, this doesn't apply to Oldsmobiles, but valve
lift rates (with a flat tappet cam) are somewhat limited by lifter diameter.
A larger diameter lifter will take a more aggressive lift rate.

GBH

 -----Original Message-----
From: Larry Pegg <nurelic@primenet.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 9:47 am
Subject: Re: 350 big block vs 350 small block?


>I believe this is an over simplification of the 350BB 350SB comparison.  If
>both engines have the same displacement then ether they have the same bore
>and stroke or they don't.  If they do then the smallblock wins on weight.
>If they don't then the one with the shorter stroke (meaning bigger bore and
>larger valves) wins the horsepower race based on better breathing and less
>ring drag at higher rpm The one with the longer stroke MAY make more torque
>but it is not a given.  Reason ?  smaller bore smaller valves.
>
>Hp = (torque*rpm) / 5250      torque = force   horsepower = work
>-----Original Message-----
>From: GT5726@aol.com <GT5726@aol.com>
>To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
>Date: Saturday, April 10, 1999 7:53 PM
>Subject: Re: 350 big block vs 350 small block?
>
>
>>In a message dated 4/10/99 7:43:12 PM Central Daylight Time,
>>sgadecki@yahoo.com writes:
>>
>><<
>>   What's the difference between a 350 big block and a 350 small block
>> (chevy I guess?)  A buddy of mine was talking to somebody, and they
>> said that a 350 big block is more powerful?  Isn't 350 cubic inches 350
>> cubic inches, no matter how you look at it?  Am I mising something?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>      Stefan
>>      1970 Cutlass 'S' Holiday Coupe >>
>>
>>
>>Well...ehhh hmmmm...Assuming you can find a "350 BIG block" to compare to
a
>>350 small block, the big block would win the races. I am justifing this
>>because , even if both engines had identical torque and HP , the big block
>>would most likely have a much flatter torque curve. The torque curve on
the
>>big block would come in lower and stay healthier for more RPM than the
>small
>>blocks inherently peaky performance. It has been said, more than once,
that
>>torque wins races, HP sells cars.
>>
>>Collyn Eastham
>>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:10:59 -0400
From: "Jason K. Adcock" <jadcock@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Need Other GM Mailing List (non-Olds)

> >Can anyone here direct me to a Cadillac mailing list?
>
> The authoritative auto mailing-list list is Richard Welty's, at
> ftp://ftp.wizvax.net/pub/personal/rwelty/Autos/mailing-lists.text
>
> Unfortunately I don't see a Cadillac entry there.

There is a Cadillac Mailing List...I was subscribed for a few weeks.  Search
on Yahoo for Cadillac Mailing List, or search for CML.  If not in Yahoo, try
a few others.  That's how ~I~ found it.

Jason K. Adcock
mailto:jadcock@vt.edu
http://members.xoom.com/jadcock

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:20:03 -0500 (CDT)
From: George <cutlass@one.camd.lsu.edu>
Subject: 68 air cleaner color???

I would need precise info on the color of a 68 4bbl 350 air cleaner on a 
cutlass-s. 

Some people have told me that it should be semi gloss black but the one I 
have off a 68 c/s seems to be still the original color which is red! Also 
my 68 olds brochure shows a 350 with a red air cleaner element!

Anybody out there that can give me a 100% answer?

Regards, George


- --------------------------------------------------------------
'68 Cuttlass S Conv. 
http://estimator.camd.lsu.edu/georg/sparetime/olds.html
- --------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:28:12 -0500
From: "Roger Hitson" <hitson@i1.net>
Subject: marine accel pump in Q-jet was : Spring fever

Is anyone using a marine accelerator pump in a Q-jet? If so, pros & cons 
please.

roger hitson

BTW, Thanx Omega Dude

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:34:27 -0500
From: Mickey.Womack@ULTRAK.com
Subject: '68 Cutlass 'S' Trim Part Needed

I am looking for the chrome trim piece that goes around the outside of
the headlights on the driver side.  It is about 3/4" wide and does a 90
degree turn. It is on the upper outside edge of the headlight area and
then turns down the outer edge until it reaches the bumper.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:29:47 -0500 (CDT)
From: George <cutlass@one.camd.lsu.edu>
Subject: buick wheel for 68 cutlass?

Someone of 442.com classifieds offers me a sport buick steering wheel in 
lt. blue which would fit my interior. He says it is a 3 spoke steering 
wheel and that it is identical to the olds sport wheel except for the 
center (horn) button. Is this true?

Can one get an olds center section easiely for this? Is the center 
section of the sport wheel colored (would have to be lt. blue or dyed 
lt. blue then.) 

Is $100 a decent price (includes shipping) for that wheel in good 
condition? Seems a little steep to me when I have to buy a horn button in 
addition...
 
Thanks George

BTW: It is not Steve Defimore selling this, LOL... remember that thread? 
Is he still around or did they finally catch him?

- --------------------------------------------------------------
'68 Cuttlass S Conv. 
http://estimator.camd.lsu.edu/georg/sparetime/olds.html
- --------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:37:35 -0500
From: "Roger Hitson" <hitson@i1.net>
Subject: Re: 68 air cleaner color???

george- it's orange/red
roger

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 4/13/99, at 11:20 AM, George wrote: 

>I would need precise info on the color of a 68 4bbl 350 air cleaner on a 
>cutlass-s. 
>
>Some people have told me that it should be semi gloss black but the one I 
>have off a 68 c/s seems to be still the original color which is red! Also 
>my 68 olds brochure shows a 350 with a red air cleaner element!
>
>Anybody out there that can give me a 100% answer?
>
>Regards, George
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------
>'68 Cuttlass S Conv. 
>http://estimator.camd.lsu.edu/georg/sparetime/olds.html
>--------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:37:26 +0000
From: Cliff Simpson <csimpson@ucalgary.ca>
Subject: Re: Need Other GM Mailing List (non-Olds)

Jason's right, try Yahoo that's where I found this:

General 
The Cadillac Mailing List (CML) is an automatically maintained list dedicated
to the distribution of general information, questions, inquiries about
Cadillacs and
related topics. 

2. How do I subscribe to the regular service? 
Simply send the mailing list subscription manager
(CMLSubscriptions@LibertySoftware.be) an email, with an empty subject and a
body Subscribe CML.
Unsubscribing can be done similarly, using a body Unsubscribe CML. Please note
that it is imperative that all (un)subscription requests be sent to
CMLSubscriptions@LibertySoftware.be. Once in a while I receive subscription
requests on other addresses. Unfortunately, due to lack of time, I am unable to
process these requests manually.

3. How do I subscribe to the digest service?
First of all you have to subscribe to the regular service. Once that is done,
you have to apply for digest mail. In order to do so, you simply send a message
to
CMLSubscriptions@LibertySoftware.be with an empty subject and a body containing
SET DIGEST CML. If you want to switch back to from digest to non-digest
mode, just send an email to the same address, with a body SET NONDIGEST CML.

- -- 

Cliff Simpson
mailto://csimpson@ucalgary.ca
'69 442,400,th400,3.31p (Kermit)
http://www.acs.ucalgary.ca/~csimpson/TheOldsZone.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:49:16 -0500
From: Kerry Kroger <kerryk@cwix.com>
Subject: Re: Electrical Help Needed!!!

gotcha didnt understand the brackets...KK
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: Andrew C. Green <acg_o@hotmail.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: Electrical Help Needed!!!


> > think you got that orientation backwards the internal variety is
> > _ _ and the external type is I I this ascii art stuff is hokey....KK
> 
> No, it's correct, and I'm saying the same thing you're saying anyway.
> 
> Put it another way: an internally-regulated alternator has the two 
> side terminals set side by side, connected on their short edges:
> [--][--]
> 
> An externally-regulated alternator has the two connectors stacked, 
> connected on their long sides:
> [--]
> [--]
> 
> Does that make it any clearer?
> 
> -- Andy
> 
> _______________________________________________________________
> Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:55:25 -0400
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: Carlisle

What is the best day to go to Carlisle to look for parts?...
________

Ah, the day _after_ I go!   ;-)

I've always been amazed at the volume of Olds parts I've found at Carlisle
(especially as compared to swap meets on the west coast like Pomona and Long
Beach).  That's not to say that these parts are reasonably priced, however, but
there is a lot of stuff out there.  As an example, I managed to score a red
inner fender panel for my 70 W-30 (factory, not repro) for $50 last year.  Note
that this particular panel had been painted black, but the paint comes right
off.  It actually helped to prevent the red plastic from fading.  Now, I've 
also
seen used front fenders with some rust for several hundred bucks, trunk lids in
the $200-300 range, and W-30 intakes for $800.  There's one vendor with a 
Rallye
350 hood and air cleaner.  Over the past two years these have dropped from 
$1600
to $1200 (must be getting tired of lugging it around).

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:59:53 -0400
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: weird math

...general beef about some of the shotty math I see thrown up from time to
time...
________

Not to mention the SHODDY spelling...  ;-)

(Sorry, but that one was too easy to let go without a smart@$$ comment.  Yes, I
often neglect to use the spellchecker too...)

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:05:26 -0700
From: "noelle r murphy" <MURPH2@prodigy.net>
Subject: Air Shocks

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_015E_01BE8595.273BBBC0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

List,
    My '66 Cutlass 2dr. Holiday Coupe has a trailer hitch and air =
shocks.  Does anyone know if there is a formula,  or a table to tell me =
PSI in the schocks per pounds on the hitch.  I would also like some =
advice on towing a small U-Haul with the 330 jetaway setup.  Thank You =
in advance,

                                                                Paul =
Harsany
                                                                '66 =
Cutlass Holiday  Coupe

murph2@prodigy.net

- ------=_NextPart_000_015E_01BE8595.273BBBC0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>List,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; My '66 Cutlass =
2dr. Holiday=20
Coupe has a trailer hitch and air shocks.&nbsp; Does anyone know if =
there is a=20
formula,&nbsp; or a table to tell me PSI in the schocks per pounds on =
the=20
hitch.&nbsp; I would also like some advice on towing a small U-Haul with =
the 330=20
jetaway setup.&nbsp; Thank You in advance,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Paul Harsany</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
'66 Cutlass Holiday&nbsp; Coupe</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2>murph2@prodigy.net</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_015E_01BE8595.273BBBC0--

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:09:42 EDT
From: Four42much@aol.com
Subject: Re: Starfire V8

I think Olds brought back the Starfire name in the 70s and 80s...had the V6 
and optional chevy V8. The 62 - 63 Jetfires had 215 hp....I know my 63 
Cutlass I had, had the high compression 4 barrel engine and it had 195 hp..
Hot Rod Harry <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/magsurv/">HOT ROD HARRY'S 
OLDSMOBILES
</A> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:10:43 EDT
From: Four42much@aol.com
Subject: Re: Carlisle

Best day for parts is Thursday and the best day for cars is Saturday
Hot Rod Harry <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/magsurv/">HOT ROD HARRY'S 
OLDSMOBILES
</A> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:37:13 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: 68 air cleaner color???

On Tue, 13 Apr 1999, George wrote:
> I would need precise info on the color of a 68 4bbl 350 air cleaner on a 
> cutlass-s. 
> Some people have told me that it should be semi gloss black but the one I 
> have off a 68 c/s seems to be still the original color which is red! Also 
> my 68 olds brochure shows a 350 with a red air cleaner element!

Yes, it is red, sort of an orangey shade of red. 2-bbl air cleaners were
semi-black, but 4-bbls got this awesome-looking red jobbie which looks
great against the gold engine paint. I found a match that was a VW color:
1985 VW "Mars Red". 

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:50:33 -0500 (CDT)
From: George <cutlass@one.camd.lsu.edu>
Subject: Re: 68 air cleaner color???

> Yes, it is red, sort of an orangey shade of red. 2-bbl air cleaners were
> semi-black, but 4-bbls got this awesome-looking red jobbie which looks
> great against the gold engine paint. I found a match that was a VW color:
> 1985 VW "Mars Red". 
Thanks Greg! You just answered my next question to the list... 

BTW: did you paint it yourself or bring it to a body shop? I can assure 
you that I will drool myself over the look when I pop the hood and look 
at that great stock design!

George
- --------------------------------------------------------------
'68 Cuttlass S Conv. 
http://estimator.camd.lsu.edu/georg/sparetime/olds.html
- --------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:11:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Stefan Gadecki <sgadecki@yahoo.com>
Subject: Carlisle - Who's going?

  I'm just wondering who's going to Carlisle.  I'm going to be there
from Wednesday night to Saturday night.  Anybody going to be vending? 
I'm bringing a '72 cutlass fender and probably a '70 rear bumper core
there with me to sell/swap, so if anyone's interested lemme know and
we'll get together so you can take a look at them.  Also, we should all
get together some night.  This is going to be my first time going to
Carlisle.  I CAN'T WAIT!  This is going to be great.

Stefan
1970 Cutlass 'S' Holiday Coupe
70Cutlass@Beer.com
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:30:20 -0700
From: Chris Fair <cfair@FairIsaac.com>
Subject: Rebuld tips?

All,
I'm rebulding my 455 (originally a 66 425) for my 98. It has about 120K
miles on the last rebuild, has blowby in 3 cylinders and is making a
so-far-undiagnosed horrible internal noise associated with the reciprocating
assembly. 

Barely got it to the motor puller yesterday. 

I know about the Ford rear main seal trick. 

What other tips do you all recommend as I proceed with this build? Specifics
are appreciated (gasket brand names, product names, part numbers if ya got
'em). 

I'd like to give my motor builder as much good info as possible as he gets
into the project.

Look forward to your tips. If this sort of data is already in the FAQ,
please say so. If so, sorry for the b'width waste.

cheers,
cf

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:38:12 -0400
From: Gene Gilpin <ggilpin@wrallp.com>
Subject: Re: Carlisle - Who's going?

I'll be there Friday by myself until I can't walk anymore.
Then Saturday I'll be back with a couple friends and my Dad. I have a buddy
coming in from Columbus, OH. He wants to buy a '68-'69 Chevelle
convertible. He had a decent '69 hardtop a few years ago till a horse fell
on it and caved in the rear c-pillar.ha ha ha
I agree we should take a minute to meet up someplace to greet and shake
hands. I don't know, maybe like on the main grandstand stage at high-noon
between the middle two giveaway cars or something. Anybody else up for
that? Opinions?
First timers will love it (unless its pouring rain) and will no doubt be
back again. I've been a regular there for the last 12 years. At least twice
a year. Most years I go 4 times (mopar too) and I still get pumped up for
it at least 2 weeks before it gets here. I love it.
See ya there.

Omega Man
'74 Omega S 455



At 11:11 AM 4/13/99 -0700, you wrote:
>
>  I'm just wondering who's going to Carlisle.  I'm going to be there
>from Wednesday night to Saturday night.  Anybody going to be vending? 
>I'm bringing a '72 cutlass fender and probably a '70 rear bumper core
>there with me to sell/swap, so if anyone's interested lemme know and
>we'll get together so you can take a look at them.  Also, we should all
>get together some night.  This is going to be my first time going to
>Carlisle.  I CAN'T WAIT!  This is going to be great.
>
>Stefan
>1970 Cutlass 'S' Holiday Coupe
>70Cutlass@Beer.com
>_________________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:45:21 -0700
From: Chris Fair <cfair@FairIsaac.com>
Subject: RE: Carlisle - When? Suggested logistics?

When is it? Is it a dumb idea to do plans at this point, if I have none?

I've thought about going for years...

cf

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:35 
From: "John Carri" <jcarri@alesis1.usa.com>
Subject: Re: those 1LE 12" disk brakes..

John Carri wrote:

>....I called Global West and talked to their tech guy, asked him
>about the thickness issue and he wasn't quite sure but he said that
>their kits use the 1LE rotors and that F-body calipers should be used
>with them, not B-body calipers....
___________________________________

Joe Padavano wrote in response:

>Two problems with this.  First, that's _not_ what Global West told me 
>a year ago.  They said to use the 1LE rotors with the B-body spindles 
>and calipers. BTW, the B-body calipers are externally the same as the 
>69-up A-body calipers, though piston diameters may differ.  Best bet 
>is to get the calipers with the largest piston for maximum braking 
>force (you _were_ using an adjustable proportioning valve, right?).  
>Second, if memory serves, the 1LE calipers are the 1984-up 
>high-pressure aluminum Corvette calipers.  Nice parts but a) I don't
>think they fit the B-body spindles and b) they require a special 
>master cylinder with a reduced piston diameter to increase the line 
>pressure.  This, in turn, means that you need to also use the 1LE (or 
>Corvette) rear calipers.  Don't know if you can use these calipers 
>with drum rear brakes, either.  Note that the low-end Baer Claw 
>systems also use these Corvette calipers.
____________________________________

Joe, I was less than precise with my original post. When I said that 
the tech guy at Global West had said that "F-body calipers should be 
used with them, not B-body calipers...." I meant  1970-1981 F-bodies 
calipers, not the new 1LE F-body calipers. This is what he told me 
this last Friday, Apr 9, 1999, I don't know why they told you 
something different a year ago, I guess he was mistaken one or the 
other time!

I'm beginning to think that yet once again we need someone on this 
list to write up a correct procedure and put it up on the FAQ. I'm 
planning to do this conversion, but I'm thinking of going the whole 
hog with the Global West upper A-arm, and it will take me several 
months to save up the money needed for this rather expensive project. 
I'll try to photograph and document what I do and write up a report 
that can be put on the FAQ, if no one else has done it before then.

- -John Carri
'72 Supreme
'73 RoadRunner

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:55:51 -0400
From: CCAC Network User cgc74 <cgc74@unix1.ccac.edu>
Subject: Re: 77 Pace car id

I've been reading these posts on the '77 pace car and now I'm quite
interested.  Was there some kind of special dealer brochure or folder
promoting the model?  There is nothing mentioned in the regular '77
sales brochure.  I'd like to have one if such an item exists, of course
I'd like to have an actual car too.  I just don't have anywhere to store
it.
- -Chris

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:56:30 -0400
From: Gene Gilpin <ggilpin@wrallp.com>
Subject: RE: Carlisle - When? Suggested logistics?

It's April 22-25. Be there or be square.

Check out this link
http://www.carpro.com/spring.htm

Omega Man
'74 Omega S 455


At 11:45 AM 4/13/99 -0700, you wrote:
>When is it? Is it a dumb idea to do plans at this point, if I have none?
>
>I've thought about going for years...
>
>cf
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:03:13 -0500
From: Mickey.Womack@ULTRAK.com
Subject: Dual Exhaust

I'm getting ready to put dual exhaust on my '68 Cutlass "s".

I saw where Year One has the complete set-up.....and I have the 20% off
coupon that expires tomorrow.

My only concern is that they state that the mufflers are undersized from
original.

Any advice is much appreciated!!!!

Please keep in mind that I am not a master mechanic and some options are
more difficult for me to venture into than others.


Mickey

'68 Cutlass "S" Conv

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:01:31 -0400
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: buick wheel for 68 cutlass?

...a sport buick steering wheel in
lt. blue which would fit my interior. He says it is a 3 spoke steering
wheel and that it is identical to the olds sport wheel except for the
center (horn) button. Is this true?...
_________

Is this a three-spoke wheel with the brushed stainless spokes?  Is the rim blue
or "woodgrain"?  The Buick three spoke wheel is identical to the 68 woodgrain
wheel, but if the rim is blue (instead of woodgrain) that would not be 
original.
Also, is the hub for a 68-earlier or 69-later steering column?  The 68-earlier
are smaller in diameter.  Note that while this hub looks like the one for the
70-up Olds four-spoke wheel and uses the same horn contact and turn signal
canceling cam, the three spoke wheel uses a slightly different hub with a notch
for the center spoke.

Does the $100 price include the hub, canceling cam, and horn contact?  If so,
it's probably a good deal.  Also, if the horn button is the correct color but
has the Buick emblem, get it anyway.  The center emblem can be removed and
replaced with one from an Olds sport wheel.  In this way, you can get an Olds
horn button in any color (possibly even a damaged one which would be cheap) and
simply swap the center into the Buick horn button.

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:02:19 -0400
From: Doug Ahern <doug@mail.RATH.PeachNet.EDU>
Subject: Re: Starfire V8

On Tue, Apr 13, 1999 at 07:55:02AM +0500, Bob Brandys wrote:
> Does anyone know the original horsepower and torque rating of the
> turbocharge 215 V-8 in the 62-63 starfire?

it was 215hp.  one hp per cube.  available in the F-85 series. 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:14:25 -0500
From: Mickey.Womack@ULTRAK.com
Subject: RE: Jetaway 2-Speed Transmission

I called our local transmission shop (that I would trust) and he said
that to get the "original" o-ring I would have to buy the whole rebuild
kit.  Otherwise, if I removed  the o-ring he could probably match it up
with one in his shop and he would just give me the part.  Is this
something me and my dad could tackle or are you really set on the fact
the it would be easier to have them do it??



> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Loris [SMTP:loris@tir.com]
> Sent:	Monday, April 05, 1999 7:06 PM
> To:	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject:	Re: Jetaway 2-Speed Transmission
> 
> The servo cover has an O ring that can be replaced for about $30 from
> a
> trans shop.  It's actually easier with the trans in the car and a few
> hands.
> Good luck trying it yourself; I tried it and gave up.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:11:03 -0400
From: Doug Ahern <doug@mail.RATH.PeachNet.EDU>
Subject: Re: Steering gearbox

On Tue, Apr 13, 1999 at 01:55:54AM -0400, Socalolds@aol.com wrote:
> Phil,
> You can use a gearbox from a 78-79 trans-am or firebird. They will bolt 
> straight up and visually you will not be able to tell the difference. 
However 
> you must use the pitman arm from your cutlass.
> Now for the bad news. You will lose  some of your steering radius. In other 
> words it will take several more feet to turn your car in a complete circle. 
> But you will dramatically improve your steering response and handeling.  For 
> the price of $40 at your local yard and a few hours installing itit can't be 
> beat.   I put them on all my cars. They are a dime a dozen in the yards.

are the 78-79 TA boxes held to the chassis with 3 or 4 bolts?  the reason
i ask is that I had a fast ration box on my 64 Olds,  it was a 3 bolt box
with 3 flange ears holding it to the chassis.  under the stress of use, on
of the ears broke.  this was a few years ago when the Olds my my only
source of transportation so I got it back on the road with a slow-ratio 
box.  I've recently started looking for a fast ratio box and a buddy that
I go junkyarding with mentioned that 4x4 people quite often use saginaw
boxes and heavy stress using the 4 bolt boxes and not the 3 bolt boxes
for the precise reason that I was stranded in that parking lot at  10pm
on a week night...

Doug

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:16:22 -0500
From: Mickey.Womack@ULTRAK.com
Subject: Jetaway to TH350 

I just talked to the local tranny shop and he said he could replace my
Jetaway with a TH350.

He said it would probably require a rework to the driveshaft and a new
yoke......all for about $800.

Does this sound right??  I didn't think it was that hard of a thing to
do............

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:22:09 -0700
From: "Shari Adams" <adams.s@nevia.net>
Subject: grill to 79 cutlass

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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was wondering how to get a hold of a grill to a 1979 cutlass supreme =
brougham ole'  (olds limited edition) please help.  send response to =
partygod@hotmail.com not the address above please.

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<HEAD>

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http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR>
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>was wondering how to get a hold of a =
grill to a=20
1979 cutlass supreme brougham ole'&nbsp; (olds limited edition) please=20
help.&nbsp; send response to <A=20
href=3D"mailto:partygod@hotmail.com">partygod@hotmail.com</A> not the =
address=20
above please.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:29 
From: "John Carri" <jcarri@alesis1.usa.com>
Subject: rod-stroke ratio and cosine loss of horsepower

Joe Padavano wrote :
<snip>
>yet more physics, The improved rod length/stroke ratio results in 
>less cosine loss - less of the piston's downward force is wasted 
>pushing sideways on the crank throw and more is used to push downward 
>to accelerate the crank.
__________________________

Karl Aunan responded :
<snip>..... shows less inertial waste, bear in mind that due to eight 
>separate ignitions we are not discussing a simple model by
>any means. There are also 7 other cylinders who are are generating 
>their own pulses and thereby causing the crank to oscillate somewhat 
>as it continues to rotate in the proper direction. Do you maintain 
>that in the 455 environment there is less "cosinal" drag than in the 
>425 given similar oscilations although both suffer similar (perhaps 
>proportional?) forces resultant from ignition in chambers of similar 
>(and different)  diplacement?

Now John Carri wishes to stick his fat yap in too:

I think the loss that Joe P. was talking about is not inertial loss 
due to torsional oscillation in the crank or anything that complex. 
The idea is very basic - sit on a chair and tip it up on two legs, it 
wants to fall sideways. You can brace yourself with a hand on a wall 
so you don't fall over. The more you tip the chair over, the harder 
you have to push with your hand to keep from falling over. Now imagine 
that you are the piston, the chair under you is the connecting rod, 
your weight is the pressure of combusting fuel above the piston 
pushing down on the piston, your hand is the piston ring, and the wall 
your hand is on is the cylinder wall. Now if you imagine yourself 
being scrubbed up and down that wall as the piston rises and falls, 
you can see that your hand will scrape harder on the wall as the chair 
is tipped over more. That is to say, more rod angularity will force 
the piston sideways against the cylinder walls, increasing frictional 
horsepower losses, and wearing out the rings and the cylinder bore. As 
you can easily visualize, long strokes tend to create large rod 
angles; long rods tend to reduce it. Hence it is the ratio of rod 
length to stroke that decides how good or bad the rod angles will be.  
Large rod/stroke ratios mean small rod angularity and reduced sidewall 
force and friction.

To see how bad this could be, look at some numbers from what I believe 
(for many reasons) is the worst V8 ever made in America - the 400 
small-block Chevy. This engine has a 4.125" bore, and if one has a 
good cranking pressure - Hughes recommends 185 psi - then the downward 
force on the piston due to this pressure is 2,472 lbs just during 
cranking!  This engine has a rod length of 5.5", and a stroke of 
3.75", which means that the cosine that Joe P. mentioned works out to 
be 0.341, meaning that 0.341 of the downward force on the piston ends 
up as sideways force against the cylinder walls. This is an appalling 
843 lbs during cranking!  Think how high it is when the engine is 
actually running.  Imagine the piston being pushed sideways against 
the cylinder wall by a force of more than 1000 lbs while it is scraped 
up and down a distance of 3.75" at a rate of 100 times a second (at 
6000 rpm)!  It is a wonder the pistons don't sandpaper their way 
through the cylinder walls in a second. Look at a high-mileage Chevy 
400 block and you will see the cylinder wear that results from the 
combination of low-grade cast iron blocks and huge rod angles. 

When I bought my copy of "Desktop Dyno" it came with a book by the 
author of the program, and he said that this piston/cylinderwall 
friction is the largest and hugely dominant source of frictionally 
wasted energy in engines. It accounts for something like 45% of all 
friction losses in engines. 

Karl brings up the point that the actual running engine has many other 
complex details to it, but nevertheless this single source of friction 
is the biggest single source of wasted horsepower.

In the discussion above I was trying hard to make a complicated 
mathematical problem into an easily visualised intuitive one, how did 
I do?

- -John Carri
'72 Supreme
'73 RoadRunner

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:44:28 -0400
From: Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM
Subject: Re: Jetaway to TH350

He said it would probably require a rework to the driveshaft and a new
yoke......all for about $800.

Does this sound right??  I didn't think it was that hard of a thing to
do............
__________

What kind of car are we talking about (year/model)?  The TH350 and Junkaway are
the same length, have the same mounting points, and use the same driveshaft 
yoke
and driveshaft.  This is one of the easiest swaps going.  Here are the hard
points to look out for:

1)  On the 64-67 A-body cars, the crossmember will cover up the rear bolts on
the trans pan.  That's life and you'll just have to deal with it when changing
trans fluid.  You could try and notch the crossmember if you want to, but I've
just unbolted the tranny mount bolts and jacked up the trans when changing the
fluid.

2)  If you have a floor shift 67-69 car with the cable shifter, you'll need the
correct bracket to hold the trans end of the cable.

3)  The TH350 uses a cable kickdown, the Jetaway uses an electric kickdown.  
For
68-69  cars you can get the accelerator pedal from a TH350 car, cut the small
hole in the firewall for the cable to pass through (69s actually already have
the cable punched and have a plug in place), and hook up the kickdown just like
factory.  If you have a 67-earlier car you'll need to fabricate a kickdown
bracket and attach the cable to the carb linkage.  You can probably adapt
something from a mid-70s GM car originally equiped with the TH350.

4)  You may need a new speedo drive gear

5)  Your two-speed shifter may or may not have enough slop to allow you to
manually access all three gears.  What this means is that you may not be able 
to
get the trans into first manually.  This is not a problem for normal function -
the trans will work just fine in drive - just be aware of it.  If you have a
68-69, you can get the three speed shift segment for your car (but if you have 
a
column shift, you have to take the steering column apart to change it).  If you
have an earlier car, you can try to modify the segment with a Dremel, if you
want.  An alternative, of course, is an aftermarket shifter.  This also solves
problem #2.

Hope this all helps

Joe Padavano
padavano.joe@orbital.com

66 442
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #1903
*********************************

