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Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #1915


oldsmobile-digest      Wednesday, April 21 1999      Volume 01 : Number 1915



Re: Where to get "turkey-tray" intake gasket
Re: Seat frame swap
Re: 350/455 swap (was 350/455 motor mounts)
Re: rubber fuel line a no-no
Meaning of Cutlass S in MCR
Re: airfilter 3 inch thick vs 4 inch thick?
Re: rubber fuel line a no-no
Re: rubber fuel line a no-no
Re: Seat frame swap
Re:  airfilter 3 inch thk versus 4inch thk?
Re: Where to get "turkey-tray" intake gasket
Re: My first Big Block
Re: 71 and 72 Hoods!
OAI Hood Lock Pins
Re: 71 and 72 Hoods!
Re: OAI Hood Lock Pins
'66 Ram Air hose supports
Re: airfilter 3 inch thk versus 4inch thk?
Re: My first Big Block
Discs are done!
Re: 71 and 72 Hoods!
Re: rubber fuel line a no-no
Re: fuel lines
Re: Next carb problem--no secondaries?
Re: fuel lines
Re: '66 Ram Air hose supports
Re: rubber fuel line a no-no
Re: pinning harmonic balancer  - not a good idea!
Re: Discs are done!
Turkey tray difference/ was re: Where to get "turkey-tray" intake gasket
Re: Turkey tray difference/ was re: Where to get "turkey-tray" intake gasket
Re: My first Big Block
Oil and Air Filters for a 72 Cutlass S (350)
Re: My first Big Block
Re: '66 Ram Air hose supports
Re: FS: '94 Cutlass Ciera
4inch airflt fit apology for com. skills
Re: Problems
Re: rubber fuel line a no-no
HEATER NOISE
Please tell me that I will not be shut out...
Re: Please tell me that I will not be shut out...
Re: Meaning of Cutlass S in MCR
Re: 350/455 swap (was 350/455 motor mounts)
Re: 350/455 swap (was 350/455 motor mounts)
Re: Dual Gate Shifter.
OLDHEMI
69 Cutlass worth?
Carlise on Friday
Re: 350/455 swap (was 350/455 motor mounts)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 16:35:00 -0500
From: Paul Brillhart <pbrill1@uic.edu>
Subject: Re: Where to get "turkey-tray" intake gasket

At 04:02 PM 4/20/99 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Well, the Subject line says it all. I need a tin style turkey tray gasket
>for my intake on a 350 (1968). Who sells them?
>
>Regards, George
>
JEGS, Summitt, PAW are the large guys with the cheap prices.  If you want
to pay more for the same product, call Mondello.  Seriously, JEGS and
Sumitt have web pages and good prices as well as shipping times.  If you
need it right away, you're local NAPA or regular auto parts store should be
able to get it to you the same day. (This assumes you're not calling at
4:30 and they are not bums.)

Have fun installing it.  Paper cuts are for candy asses, relatively speaking.

Don't forget to RTV around the water jackets and dab a blob at the corners
where the end seals go(you know, those rubber or cork pieces.)  Some guys
throw them away and just use the RTV.  Up to you.


Paul Brillhart
> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 18:30:11 -0400
From: "Kyle Tilbe" <kftilbe@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Seat frame swap

Alright list,
I know someone out there knows the answer to the following question I posted
earlier.


Kyle

>Hi,
>I've got some broken springs on my 71 bucket seat bottom frame, are the
>70 bucket seat frames the same. Would I be able to swap one frame for the
>other.
>
>Thanks, Kyle
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 18:35:56 EDT
From: CUTLASS442@aol.com
Subject: Re: 350/455 swap (was 350/455 motor mounts)

What do you do if you're trying to swap in a Buick motor??????? I need mount 
help.....lol

Richard
1967 "Oldsmobuick" Cutlass

<< 
 ...if I can get Joe Padavano to stop laughing at me long enough for me to 
think
 straight.......(I was the one who posted the "top ten reasons to own a
 small-block" on the list a while ago).
 ______
 
 Another convert sees the light...  ;-)
 
 Actually, the mantra on motor mounts is:  keep the frame and rubber mounts
 together as a matched set.  For example, if your car has 350 frame mounts, 
use
 the 350 motor mounts _FOR_THAT_CHASSIS_ (on whatever Olds motor you're 
swapping
 in) and the swap is a bolt-in.
 
 ============
 
 Swapping a 403 in place of a 350 is straightforward, isn't it? Or are
 there weird problems that I don't know about even with this swap?
 ______
 
 The 350 and 403 are externally identical.  There are some internal funnies, 
like
 the larger diameter head bolts, but that won't effect a complete swap.  I'd
 still like to do the killer 403 buildup.  On paper this motor should be a
 screamer...  Plus, it obviously meets the 400 cu in minimum displacement
 criteria.
 
 That will have to be the motor of choice if I ever get a 64 442 (the only 
64-72
 that I haven't owned) just so it looks correct externally.
 
 Joe Padavano
 padavano.joe@orbital.com
 
 66 442
 68 W-30
 69 H/O
 69 442
 70 W-30
 
 
  >>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 15:43 
From: "John Carri" <jcarri@alesis1.usa.com>
Subject: Re: rubber fuel line a no-no

><snip>
>...Granted I can see the dangers of rubber fuel line. But, if used
>correctly you will never have a problem. If rubber lines were so 
>unsafe, why are they used on lawnmowers, ATV's, snowmobiles, etc, 
>etc........
_______________________________________________________________

>From: JonKrisInc@aol.com
>I also tried the lazy way of using rubber as a fuel line. What I 
>didn't know was that rubber hose does not allow the heat to 
>dissipate. I got that gurgling sound and the car was hard to start 
>when hot. I soon saw tiny cracks on the outside covering of the hose, 
>and that was it. My lazy days were over. I replaced it with a steel 
>fuel line and lived happily ever after.
>Bruce
_______________________________________________________________


If rubber lines are so safe, how come no cars, trucks, or other 
passenger vehicles leave the factory with rubber fuel lines above the 
engine? How come the NHRA won't allow it? Two listees posted stories 
of their experiences with cracking rubber lines, one of which actually 
spilt raw gas on the engine. I remember reading that there were some 
500 listees, I'm guessing that less than 50 of them use rubber fuel 
line, and two out of those few experienced potentially dangerous 
problems. Does that percentage worry you? It worries me.

I have no info on the nylon aircraft lines, though nylon burns 
readily, and steel tubing does not, if it were my car I would be 
reluctant to use combustible fuel line.......I'm guessing that the 
overwhelming requirement to save weight in aircraft might be the 
reason they use this line in that application. Do they really use this 
nylon line for fuel, and does this include routing it within inches of 
a hot engine? I doubt it. Also aircraft are serviced much more 
frequently than cars, and there is a mechanical pre-flight check 
before every single take-off. Do you check your car's mechanical 
health as often as that?  I don't.

Bottom line, obviously it's not my job to convince anyone to live 
their own lives in what I consider a safe manner; unlike the Blues 
Brothers, I'm not on a mission from God. If you want to take the risk, 
fine. Just be aware that it is indeed a risk, and a fairly big one. 

<soapbox mode on>
While you're at it, throw away your seatbelts, you don't need them 
most of the time. Oh, and jackstands are a waste of time, just use the 
jack when you're under the car, it's quite rare for a car to crush 
someone under it. Baling wire works as well as motor mounts until it 
fails, too, so use it freely. Bald tires and weak brakes rarely kill, 
either, so don't bother replacing your worn tires and don't change the 
fluid in your brake-system. Don't bother getting life-insurance, 
either, most people only die once in some seventy-odd years, the 
probability that you will need that life-insurance any time soon is 
very small.
<soapbox mode off>

The above statements and opinions are based on my common-sense and 
some facts available to us all, if you see things differently we'll 
just have to live with each others opinions. I wish you good luck with 
your choices.

- -John Carri
'72 Supreme
'73 RoadRunner


________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 18:57:24 EDT
From: DrkSole96@aol.com
Subject: Meaning of Cutlass S in MCR

Well, just got the latest edition of Muscle Car Review.  In the restoration 
column, some one wrote in asking what the "S" on a 73 Cutlass S stood for.  
MCR replied that the "S" stands for Supreme, a model of Cutlass.  I wish 
people who are looked upon as experts wouldn't give out such misinformation, 
as the Supreme and S are obviously separate models.  I think I'm going to 
write a letter detailing the differences between an S and a Supreme.  
The column's e-mail is restclnc@petersenpub.com

Donovan Moser
73 Cutlass Supreme, not S
drksole96@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 15:57 
From: "John Carri" <jcarri@alesis1.usa.com>
Subject: Re: airfilter 3 inch thick vs 4 inch thick?

Randy Hermsen wrote:

>Had a guy at work today tell me I might put too much air in the carb 
>if I put on a thicker air filter. On top of the edelbrock preformer 
>intake I got a 14 inch dia. chromey had 3 inch thk. but because I  
>ultimatly want a K-N air filter I wanted to know if the hood would 
>shut with the 4 inch thk. cheap paper one then get a K-N later when I 
>knew it would fit.My vote is he is full of it ,and doent know what he 
>is talking about.If i could Id shove the air down with a fan and rich 
>up the mixture a bit lolol.Anyone want to comment on K-N air 
>filters???
<snip>

You're right, he's full of it!  David Vizard in one of his "how to 
build horsepower" books points out that just about the only place in 
the automotive world where "bigger is better" is actually true is in 
air-filter sizing.  He gives a formula for a minimum filter size based 
on your engines displacement, max rpm, and/or horsepower, and then 
says that if you have room for a bigger filter, always use the bigger 
one! He also recommends K&N filters as far superior to any other type 
of filter he has tested (including foam, paper, etc).

I have a K&N filter on my '73 RoadRunner, I like it a lot. Never needs 
replacing and flows like crazy even when dirty.  This car came from 
the factory with a huge filter and non-restrictive filter housing, so 
I didn't feel any seat-of-the-pants improvement with the K&N, but the 
lack of maintenance alone is worth the price, IMHO. Now I know my 
filter is not limiting my engine's performance.

About that fan shoving air down the carb, that's exactly what a 
turbocharger or supercharger does!  Maybe that parts clerk can explain 
to you why bolting on a supercharger always slows down your car from 
all that extra air down the carb.  Who knows how fast a top-fuel car 
could run if they were only wise enough to remove that big 
supercharger and put a small paper-filter on instead! LOL!

- -John Carri
'72 Supreme
'73 RoadRunner
 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 19:17:28 -0700
From: Greg Pruett <gregp@rbnet.com>
Subject: Re: rubber fuel line a no-no

John Carri wrote:

> If rubber lines are so safe, how come no cars, trucks, or other
> passenger vehicles leave the factory with rubber fuel lines above the
> engine? How come the NHRA won't allow it? Two listees posted stories
> of their experiences with cracking rubber lines, one of which actually
> spilt raw gas on the engine. I remember reading that there were some
> 500 listees, I'm guessing that less than 50 of them use rubber fuel
> line, and two out of those few experienced potentially dangerous
> problems. Does that percentage worry you? It worries me.

Rubber line is used on cars from the factory more than you'd think. 
Nissan used it extensively on their cars in the 80's.  We have an `85
maxima with rubber line from the firewall to the engine, on certain
parts of the fuel rail, and between the tops of the injectors and the
fuel rails.  They've also recalled a number of Maximas due to the rubber
hose weakening because of some new additive that has reccently been
added to gasoline.  They haven't recalled them all though, just certain
production runs in 85 to 80-something cars.  Some have the weak lines
and some don't.  

Even so, I would reccomend to use steel line for anything that
originally came with steel line.  If original rubber lines weaken
replacing them with steel is a good idea.

Everyone should carry a fire extinguisher regardless....You'll be sorry
if you could have stopped a small fire quickly with a handy fire
extinguisher but instead had to watch your ride burn.  Just get the hell
away if your fire extinguisher doesn't do the job or if the fire's too
big.  Carry it somewhere in the passenger compartment, you won't be able
to get in the trunk in time get it out.  It's no big deal to have an
extinguisher somewhere in the rear seat floorboard or strapped in the
back seat.

Greg Pruett
72 Vista Crusier
67 Cutlass Supreme
80 Cutlass Calais
73 98 LS

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 19:48:43 -0400
From: "gjcouse" <gjcouse@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: rubber fuel line a no-no

Fo*d + Mercu*y also used fuel line rubber with quick snap connectors in the
late 70's. Had one let go. That Merc never looked so good as when it was all
lit up. Work vehicle that always left me stranded.  Gary...

- -----Regards,

Gary J. Couse
Couse Custom's

ICQ# 5209322
gjcouse@francomm.com
gjcouse@cc-iroc-ss.com

Custom Conversion Prototype:
CC-IROC-SS-#001 =  "Quincy"
http://www.CC-IROC-SS.com

G.J.C - Hanger95 Technical Support Engineer.
For free Win95-98 Support, come visit <GJC> at:
http://www.salemcounty.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Pruett <gregp@rbnet.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 10:17 PM
Subject: Re: rubber fuel line a no-no


> John Carri wrote:
>
> > If rubber lines are so safe, how come no cars, trucks, or other
> > passenger vehicles leave the factory with rubber fuel lines above the
> > engine? How come the NHRA won't allow it? Two listees posted stories
> > of their experiences with cracking rubber lines, one of which actually
> > spilt raw gas on the engine. I remember reading that there were some
> > 500 listees, I'm guessing that less than 50 of them use rubber fuel
> > line, and two out of those few experienced potentially dangerous
> > problems. Does that percentage worry you? It worries me.
>
> Rubber line is used on cars from the factory more than you'd think.
> Nissan used it extensively on their cars in the 80's.  We have an `85
> maxima with rubber line from the firewall to the engine, on certain
> parts of the fuel rail, and between the tops of the injectors and the
> fuel rails.  They've also recalled a number of Maximas due to the rubber
> hose weakening because of some new additive that has reccently been
> added to gasoline.  They haven't recalled them all though, just certain
> production runs in 85 to 80-something cars.  Some have the weak lines
> and some don't.
>
> Even so, I would reccomend to use steel line for anything that
> originally came with steel line.  If original rubber lines weaken
> replacing them with steel is a good idea.
>
> Everyone should carry a fire extinguisher regardless....You'll be sorry
> if you could have stopped a small fire quickly with a handy fire
> extinguisher but instead had to watch your ride burn.  Just get the hell
> away if your fire extinguisher doesn't do the job or if the fire's too
> big.  Carry it somewhere in the passenger compartment, you won't be able
> to get in the trunk in time get it out.  It's no big deal to have an
> extinguisher somewhere in the rear seat floorboard or strapped in the
> back seat.
>
> Greg Pruett
> 72 Vista Crusier
> 67 Cutlass Supreme
> 80 Cutlass Calais
> 73 98 LS
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 19:48:38 -0500
From: Kerry Kroger <kerryk@cwix.com>
Subject: Re: Seat frame swap

you bet I replied to this before but guess the little 1s and 0s got lost in
the maze of phone lines out there but any way the seat frames are the same
from 69-72 good luck and have fun...KK
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Kyle Tilbe <kftilbe@gte.net>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 5:30 PM
Subject: Re: Seat frame swap


> Alright list,
> I know someone out there knows the answer to the following question I
posted
> earlier.
>
>
> Kyle
>
> >Hi,
> >I've got some broken springs on my 71 bucket seat bottom frame, are the
> >70 bucket seat frames the same. Would I be able to swap one frame for the
> >other.
> >
> >Thanks, Kyle
> >
> >
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 16:52:48 -0700
From: BOYD DONALD R <drboyd@srpnet.com>
Subject: Re:  airfilter 3 inch thk versus 4inch thk?

My suggestion, tacky as it may be, would be to keep the cold air intake
feature of your stock air cleaner, unless you're driving where it's 20
degrees outside.  you'll gain more power due to colder intake air than
you'll lose with any restriction on the stock unit...

Don
76 Cutlass 455

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 19:51:37 -0500
From: Kerry Kroger <kerryk@cwix.com>
Subject: Re: Where to get "turkey-tray" intake gasket

would agree with the other folks but with the caveat make sure you tell the
drooling kid behind the counter that the engine is an "R" engine or you will
get the one they always send me for an OMEGA
"G" 350 thats a buick for all you un initiated this happened in missouri and
california so go figure...KK
- ----- Original Message -----
From: George <cutlass@one.camd.lsu.edu>
To: OldsML <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 4:02 PM
Subject: Where to get "turkey-tray" intake gasket


>
> Well, the Subject line says it all. I need a tin style turkey tray gasket
> for my intake on a 350 (1968). Who sells them?
>
> Regards, George
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> '68 Cuttlass S Conv.
> http://estimator.camd.lsu.edu/georg/sparetime/olds.html
> --------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 18:38:25 -0500
From: Brian Ammons <b_ammons@mail.utexas.edu>
Subject: Re: My first Big Block

At 03:12 PM 4/20/99 -0500, you wrote:
>Well the car is finally running....

Hoo-Rah!

>3.73's with a TH-2004R.

I would like to know more about what modifications you made to the
TH-2004R, as well as what year tranny, etc.  

>I have not run the quarter yet, but I know I am in the low 13's for
>sure.

Congratulations!
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Ammons             ICQ - 3585737
MIS Major - UT Austin  b_ammons@mail.utexas.edu
2903 Breeze Terrace    http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~ammons/
Austin, TX 78722          Home:	 (512) 236-8088 (Austin)
                                              (713) 776-2110 (Houston)
1984 Oldsmobile          Pager:	 (512) 483-8056
	Delta 88                         (713) 318-5938
		4-door
"The Party Barge"
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 20:49:49 -0400
From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Subject: Re: 71 and 72 Hoods!

John Pajak wrote:

> There is some question on the hoods for 71 and 72 Cutlasses and 442s.
>
> 3) Steel hood with stamped-in vents near the windshield. (Plain Cutlass and
> Cutlass Supreme WITHOUT AC)
>
> 5) Steel hood with NO stamped-in vents near the windshield. (Plain Cutlass
> and Cutlass Supreme WITH AC)

I don't know about this.  I had an untampered with '72 Supreme with AC and it
had #3 above.

- --
Kurt Heinrich  (mailto:old442@erols.com)
71 442         (see it at http://www.442.com/heinrich.html)
95 Aurora
OCA# 30442

*****************************************************
* visit my home page at http://www.erols.com/old442 *
*****************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 21:03:04 -0400
From: Scott Parker <sparker442@banet.net>
Subject: OAI Hood Lock Pins

It looks like I'm supposed to have some sort of protective discs under
the chrome knobs on the hood.  I guess these would protect the paint
from all that pushing down/twisting  that goes on with the knobs
themselves.  Does anyone know where I can get just these discs or what
they're made of so I could make my own?  TIA.
Scott Parker
71 442 Conv.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 21:02:53 -0400
From: "Robin Pajak" <robinp@us.hsanet.net>
Subject: Re: 71 and 72 Hoods!

Kurt Heinrich wrote:

I don't know about this.  I had an untampered with '72 Supreme with AC and
it had #3 above.


***************************
>Kurt, this just goes to prove that nothing is cast in stone. The factory
could have used up the extra leftover 71 hoods. Chalk it up to "Rocket
Science" !!!!!!

John Pajak
http://members.tripod.com/~JSPajak

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 21:10:54 -0400
From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Subject: Re: OAI Hood Lock Pins

Scott Parker wrote:

> It looks like I'm supposed to have some sort of protective discs under
> the chrome knobs on the hood.  I guess these would protect the paint
> from all that pushing down/twisting  that goes on with the knobs
> themselves.  Does anyone know where I can get just these discs or what
> they're made of so I could make my own?  TIA.
> Scott Parker
> 71 442 Conv.

Scott,
I've got 2 used extras you can have.
Just e-mail me DIRECTLY with your address and I'll get them out.


- --
Kurt Heinrich  (mailto:old442@erols.com)
71 442         (see it at http://www.442.com/heinrich.html)
95 Aurora
OCA# 30442

*****************************************************
* visit my home page at http://www.erols.com/old442 *
*****************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 21:19:36 EDT
From: COUPEKING@aol.com
Subject: '66 Ram Air hose supports

Group-
Am looking for some of the above for my '66 L69. Hoses flopping all over bug 
me. Anybody got a line on some or even a good template I can fabricate from? 
Anybody know of any repops?
TIA
Peter
coupeking

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 21:32:47 -0400
From: "Thomas P. Smith" <smithtp@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: airfilter 3 inch thk versus 4inch thk?

> Had a guy at work today tell me I might put too much air in the carb if I put
> on a thicker air filter. On top of the edelbrock preformer intake I got a 14
> inch dia. chromey had 3 inch thk. but because I  ultimatly want a K-N air
> filter I wanted to know if the hood would shut with the 4 inch thk. cheap
> paper one then get a K-N later when I knew it would fit.My vote is he is full
> of it ,and doent know what he is talking about.If i could Id shove the air
> down with a fan and rich up the mixture a bit lolol.Anyone want to comment on
> K-N air filters??
>
I will say, I read somewhere...I believe some hipo magazine...that the
geometry of the air cleaner is important.  That is, you want to maintain
roughly a 5 to 1 ratio between air filter diameter and height for
optimum airflow.  So, a 10" diameter by 2" high filter flows better than
a 10" by 3".  Also, a 14" diameter by 3" high filter flows better than a
14" by 4" (although not exactly 5:1, 14 x 3 is closer to the ratio than
14 x 4).  I have no idea if this is true, or not, but use it for what
it's worth.

As for letting in too much air, we went through a millenial thread about
that a few months back.  When it's all said and done, carb CFM
determines total airflow and the air bleeds are the main determinants of
how the available air supply will affect fuel metering.  The jets
determine how much fuel is available for the air bleeds to emulsify with
air.  However, I will say, based on info from Doug Roe's book and other
sources, that less restriction can alter fuel metering in an externally
vented carb (bowl vents outside the air cleaner).  Though this will
probably not be too significant.

Also, since the Q-Jet secondary air valve responds to airflow, less
restriction may change the point at which the secondary opens up.

Since I'm on digest, I'll just lay these tidbits out there for ya'll to
bicker about and I'll see tomorrow after work how much havoc I've
created.  May the best technobabbler win.

- --
Thomas P. Smith
  1971 Cutlass S: 350 Rocket/TH350/Edelbrock OL4B/dual exhaust/
        sometimes Q-Jet, sometimes Holley/Mallory Unilite Conversion.
  1988 Plymouth Voyager 3.0:  Ummm...Let me think of something.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 20:38:18 -0500
From: Stephen Hoover <shang@connect.net>
Subject: Re: My first Big Block

Brian Ammons wrote:

> 
> >3.73's with a TH-2004R.
> 
> I would like to know more about what modifications you made to the
> TH-2004R, as well as what year tranny, etc.
> 


For those of you with the same question:

The transmission was built by George Patton of GT Transmissions in
Georgia.

http://gttrans.home.mindspring.com/

He did the basic updates..more clutches in the 3-4 pack, increased
pressure regulator, he used a special billet servo, and installed the
10-vane pump with steel rings. The transmission is solid and it feels
like it is handling the 455 with no probs. Mine was actually one of the
first one's he did (performance based TH-2004R), but he has done several
more since. He has been building transmissions for a long time, and I
highly recommend him.

Stephen Hoover
Dallas, Texas
'70 Supreme

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 21:54:20 -0400
From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@nbn.net>
Subject: Discs are done!

YEAH!!!!

My disc brake conversion on the '72 is finally done.

Well, almost...

Still have to get rid of a nasty metallic scraping sound.  Sounds like
the passenger side rotor is on a lathe.  Only started doing that after
we got fluid in the system.  Doesn't do it all the time.  Does it much
of the time of straights, always around left corners, never around right
corners.  Cresting a hill, when the body lifts and suspension stays
stuck to the road, makes it real noticable.  Guess I'll have to pull
that wheel apart and see what's going on.

Anyway, I am much pleased with the results ('cept for that stupid
noise).  This car hasn't had brakes this good in the whole time I have
owned it, which is almost 10 years.  I no longer apply the pedal and
then wait while the car decides if it wants to apply the brakes or not. 
Braking action is almost immediate and with the pedal all the way down I
can get my whole left foot under the pedal, instead of just my big toe.

Thanks to all the list members who came to my aid during this project. 
I appreciate all the help, tips and encouragement that you have
provided.  You guys (general term) are great!  *sniff*

Thought I'd tally the cost here and let you see what this project cost
me, for those of you who may be thinking of doing this conversion in the
future.  Most of these parts prices are not retail, as the parts were
obtained using my dealership discount.

2 upper ball joints  $30.93
2 lower ball joints  $38.35
2 spindles/hose brackets $parts car
2 rotors turned $25.44
4 inner/outer bearings pressed $20.14
2 bearing seals $6.44
2 outer wheel bearings $14.37
2 inner wheel bearings $17.65
2 rebuilt calipers $52.47
1 set front brake pads $21.36
2 front brake hoses $68.67
rebuilt combination master cylinder/power booster $104.89
1 proportioning valve $61.27
1 set riveted rear shoes $13.48
2 rear wheel cylinders $44.30
1 rear brake hose $23.95
1 new rear drum $previous
1 rear drum turned $previous
1 SS brake tube kit $182.95
misc. hardware/cleaner $30.00 est.

Total cost $756.66.  I think all prices except the prop. valve are
cheaper than my 3/96 Year One catalog, but keep in mind that these are
dealer prices.  There is a Chevelle disc conversion package listed in
the latest Hemmings at a special of $749.

But, I'm still not done.  Need an alignment since I've monkeyed with the
suspension.  Maybe that's what's causing my front end noise?

Anyway, I strongly recommend disc conversions.  It wasn't easy, but it
was worth it.

Paul

- -- 
Paul Hartlieb
Myerstown, PA
mailto:plh@nbn.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 21:59:43 -0400
From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@nbn.net>
Subject: Re: 71 and 72 Hoods!

Kurt Heinrich wrote:

> > 3) Steel hood with stamped-in vents near the windshield. (Plain Cutlass and
> > Cutlass Supreme WITHOUT AC)
 
> I don't know about this.  I had an untampered with '72 Supreme with AC and it
> had #3 above.

If you worked on an assembly line and had 5 hoods to pick from, how many
cars would you be able to build before you got the wrong hood on a car. 
I bet I wouldn't make it past a dozen. :)  Or, you've been goofing off,
talking to your buddy across the aisle and all of a sudden, there's this
car there that needs a hood!  Ohmygod!  So you grab the first one you
see.  Bet there's tons out there with the wrong hoods.

Paul
(who is easily confused and likes to goof off)
- -- 
Paul Hartlieb
Myerstown, PA
mailto:plh@nbn.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 20:57:00 -0500 (CDT)
From: George <cutlass@one.camd.lsu.edu>
Subject: Re: rubber fuel line a no-no

My 77 Lincoln Continental also uses rubber fuel line on top of the intake 
to the carb. There is a steel line coming up in front of the engine but 
it bends up over the intake and stops exactly there. I did not have any 
problem with rubber (maybe because I tend to change hoses as soon as 
they look brittle) but I sure believe that steel is much less dangerous. 
On my cutlass I will go for a steel line after I followed this discussion.

Regards, George

- --------------------------------------------------------------
'68 Cuttlass S Conv. 
- --------------------------------------------------------------

On Tue, 20 Apr 1999, gjcouse wrote:

> Fo*d + Mercu*y also used fuel line rubber with quick snap connectors in the
> late 70's. Had one let go. That Merc never looked so good as when it was all
> lit up. Work vehicle that always left me stranded.  Gary...
> 
> -----Regards,
> 
> Gary J. Couse
> Couse Custom's
> 
> ICQ# 5209322
> gjcouse@francomm.com
> gjcouse@cc-iroc-ss.com
> 
> Custom Conversion Prototype:
> CC-IROC-SS-#001 =  "Quincy"
> http://www.CC-IROC-SS.com
> 
> G.J.C - Hanger95 Technical Support Engineer.
> For free Win95-98 Support, come visit <GJC> at:
> http://www.salemcounty.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Greg Pruett <gregp@rbnet.com>
> To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 10:17 PM
> Subject: Re: rubber fuel line a no-no
> 
> 
> > John Carri wrote:
> >
> > > If rubber lines are so safe, how come no cars, trucks, or other
> > > passenger vehicles leave the factory with rubber fuel lines above the
> > > engine? How come the NHRA won't allow it? Two listees posted stories
> > > of their experiences with cracking rubber lines, one of which actually
> > > spilt raw gas on the engine. I remember reading that there were some
> > > 500 listees, I'm guessing that less than 50 of them use rubber fuel
> > > line, and two out of those few experienced potentially dangerous
> > > problems. Does that percentage worry you? It worries me.
> >
> > Rubber line is used on cars from the factory more than you'd think.
> > Nissan used it extensively on their cars in the 80's.  We have an `85
> > maxima with rubber line from the firewall to the engine, on certain
> > parts of the fuel rail, and between the tops of the injectors and the
> > fuel rails.  They've also recalled a number of Maximas due to the rubber
> > hose weakening because of some new additive that has reccently been
> > added to gasoline.  They haven't recalled them all though, just certain
> > production runs in 85 to 80-something cars.  Some have the weak lines
> > and some don't.
> >
> > Even so, I would reccomend to use steel line for anything that
> > originally came with steel line.  If original rubber lines weaken
> > replacing them with steel is a good idea.
> >
> > Everyone should carry a fire extinguisher regardless....You'll be sorry
> > if you could have stopped a small fire quickly with a handy fire
> > extinguisher but instead had to watch your ride burn.  Just get the hell
> > away if your fire extinguisher doesn't do the job or if the fire's too
> > big.  Carry it somewhere in the passenger compartment, you won't be able
> > to get in the trunk in time get it out.  It's no big deal to have an
> > extinguisher somewhere in the rear seat floorboard or strapped in the
> > back seat.
> >
> > Greg Pruett
> > 72 Vista Crusier
> > 67 Cutlass Supreme
> > 80 Cutlass Calais
> > 73 98 LS
> >
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 22:15:34 EDT
From: DYeager535@aol.com
Subject: Re: fuel lines

In a message dated 4/20/99 8:49:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
kkayser@execpc.com writes:

<< Is there any reason not to use copper tubing for fuel lines.  It does
 not rust and is more resistant to fatigue than aluminum.  It is easier
 to work with than steel or aluminum. >>

	Go get the bendable aluminum tubing. It can be bent and re-bent by 
hand..just be careful. I was going to use steel, since I had heard that 
aluminum would fatigue, then I thought about the AC lines..they are all 
aluminum. They seem to hold up ok.  Dorian

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 22:18:38 EDT
From: DYeager535@aol.com
Subject: Re: Next carb problem--no secondaries?

In a message dated 4/20/99 5:51:18 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
Padavano.Joe@Orbital.COM writes:

<< On my 85, the lockout pin acts on the throttle shaft...
 ________
 
 Really?  You've travelled into that post-1972 twilight zone where I have very
 little experience.  I'll certainly file that for future reference.  Thanks.
 
 Joe Padavano
 padavano.joe@orbital.com >>

	All the early carbs I have (pre 74 hehe) act on the air valves, while 
my 77 and later carbs are all on the secondary throttle shaft, on the 
passenger side carb. Dorian

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 22:25:29 -0400
From: Rebel1 <rebel1@raex.com>
Subject: Re: fuel lines

Kenneth L Kayser wrote:

> Is there any reason not to use copper tubing for fuel lines.  It does
> not rust and is more resistant to fatigue than aluminum.  It is easier
> to work with than steel or aluminum.

Copper will fatigue at a much greater rate than steel...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 22:29:17 EDT
From: RPTW32@aol.com
Subject: Re: '66 Ram Air hose supports

In a message dated 4/20/99 9:23:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
COUPEKING@aol.com writes:

<< Am looking for some of the above for my '66 L69. Hoses flopping all over 
bug 
 me. Anybody got a line on some or even a good template I can fabricate from? 
 Anybody know of any repops? >>

Peter,
 There was someone advertising on 442.com that is repoing the 69 ram air 
scoops
and fender hose mounts. Don't know if they're diff vs. 66 ones but I have 
some on my 69 and I know they're exact match for original 69-69 ones. I know 
the hoses are the same part no. so would suspect the mounts are same as well.

good luck
Rob Thomas
69 442

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 22:39:14 -0400
From: "Edward Binnix" <comid@jellico.com>
Subject: Re: rubber fuel line a no-no

Just to chime in, I have a boat with an outboard (140hp). It is 100%
neoprene fuel lines (from the factory) tank to carburetors. I am a WHOLE lot
more scared of a fire in the boat (where even the hull is flammable) than I
am of a car fire. So what? I've used neoprene fuel line in various
applications for years. Proper inspection and maintenance is required. THAT
is why car manufacturers don't use it. The average IDIOT car buyer in
America barely knows how to open the hood and considers selfserve gasoline
to be good maintenance. Example: the average American doesn't change a belt
of a hose until it fails outright. The factory knows that. In light of that,
it make sense to keep flammables in a line that never needs replacement.
Car guys (like the list inhabitants) change hoses for the fun of it. Thus
IMHO neoprene is reasonable safe for the true gear head.
Also NHRA is taking the frequency of spontaneous disassembly and resulting
cut lines, hoses, belts, etc. into consideration.

- -----Original Message-----

>
>If rubber lines are so safe, how come no cars, trucks, or other
>passenger vehicles leave the factory with rubber fuel lines above the
>engine? How come the NHRA won't allow it? Two listees posted stories
>of their experiences with cracking rubber lines, one of which actually
>spilt raw gas on the engine. I remember reading that there were some
>500 listees, I'm guessing that less than 50 of them use rubber fuel
>line, and two out of those few experienced potentially dangerous
>problems. Does that percentage worry you? It worries me.
>
>I have no info on the nylon aircraft lines, though nylon burns
>readily, and steel tubing does not, if it were my car I would be
>reluctant to use combustible fuel line.......I'm guessing that the
>overwhelming requirement to save weight in aircraft might be the
>reason they use this line in that application. Do they really use this
>nylon line for fuel, and does this include routing it within inches of
>a hot engine? I doubt it. Also aircraft are serviced much more
>frequently than cars, and there is a mechanical pre-flight check
>before every single take-off. Do you check your car's mechanical
>health as often as that?  I don't.
>
>Bottom line, obviously it's not my job to convince anyone to live
>their own lives in what I consider a safe manner; unlike the Blues
>Brothers, I'm not on a mission from God. If you want to take the risk,
>fine. Just be aware that it is indeed a risk, and a fairly big one.
>
><soapbox mode on>
>While you're at it, throw away your seatbelts, you don't need them
>most of the time. Oh, and jackstands are a waste of time, just use the
>jack when you're under the car, it's quite rare for a car to crush
>someone under it. Baling wire works as well as motor mounts until it
>fails, too, so use it freely. Bald tires and weak brakes rarely kill,
>either, so don't bother replacing your worn tires and don't change the
>fluid in your brake-system. Don't bother getting life-insurance,
>either, most people only die once in some seventy-odd years, the
>probability that you will need that life-insurance any time soon is
>very small.
><soapbox mode off>
>
>The above statements and opinions are based on my common-sense and
>some facts available to us all, if you see things differently we'll
>just have to live with each others opinions. I wish you good luck with
>your choices.
>
>-John Carri
>'72 Supreme
>'73 RoadRunner
>
>
>________________________________________________________________
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 19:47:38 -0700
From: Greg Rollin <supercars@transport.com>
Subject: Re: pinning harmonic balancer  - not a good idea!

John Carri wrote:
> 
> The outer ring of the harmonic balancer in conjunction with the rubber
> layer between it and the central part acts to absorb torsional
> oscillations in the crankshaft, caused by the multiple "hits" from the
> compression strokes. Pinning the two parts of the harmonic balancer
> together will make this ineffective, and the crank will be subjected
> to large torsional oscillations, and eventually this will cause the
> crank to break into two pieces.
> 
> <snip> 


John,

You are absolutely correct.  Even though I am fully 
aware of the reasons/need for the dampening effects 
of the balancer, I offered a "solution" that would 
have created a solid hub.  Not a good idea is right.  
Got no excuse....  Vapor lock of the brain perhaps?.....


Greg Rollin
Supercars Unlimited (Where Cutlass/4-4-2 is ALL we do!) 
Portland, Oregon  503-244-8249

Web Site:
http://www.supercarsunlimited.com

E-mail: supercars@transport.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 22:51:26 EDT
From: Four42man@aol.com
Subject: Re: Discs are done!

Sounds like your backing plate is touching your rotor.  Pull the wheel and 
then spin the rotor, you should be able to see where its hitting.
W-Tony

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 22:55:28 -0400
From: "RANDY A GEISEL" <RANDYGEISEL@prodigy.net>
Subject: Turkey tray difference/ was re: Where to get "turkey-tray" intake 
gasket

> Well, the Subject line says it all. I need a tin style turkey tray gasket
> for my intake on a 350 (1968). Who sells them?

I know what george is referring to, I've replaced intakes many times. On the
68 350 shortblock I replaced my 72 350 with the turkey tray was different.
The 68 had a miniature tray bolted directly to the block and used (don't
remember which) either composite or metal gaskets on the heads.

Does anyone know why Olds (GM) went to the one piece design in later years?
Was it to keep that much more oil (heat transfer) from the underside of the
intake?

I kept the original tray and used composite gaskets on the heads as it
seemed to seal better with the Performer RPM intake I used.

Any opinions?

Randy

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 22:06:51 -0500 (CDT)
From: George <cutlass@one.camd.lsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Turkey tray difference/ was re: Where to get "turkey-tray" intake 
gasket

> The 68 had a miniature tray bolted directly to the block and used (don't
> remember which) either composite or metal gaskets on the heads.
This is correct. Underneath the intake, between the lifters the block has 
boltholes and I always wondered what they are good for! I once asked the 
list but everyone started talking about turkey trays and nobody referred 
to the bolt holes on top of the block I was originally asking about.

> Does anyone know why Olds (GM) went to the one piece design in later years?
> Was it to keep that much more oil (heat transfer) from the underside of the
> intake?
I can just imagine why... we had a similar thread some time ago. We were 
sure that the one piece design will help keeping the intake and therefore 
the carb cooler. You will also be able to run RUBBER FUEL LINES on top of 
the cool intake that way, haha, just kiddin... That is actually why I get 
the one piece tray this time after I used the two piece metal gasket that 
came with my engine kit last time. 

> I kept the original tray and used composite gaskets on the heads as it
> seemed to seal better with the Performer RPM intake I used.
Aha, see, that is what I would like to do if that setup would still be 
around. Get the original (small) bolt on piece that goes on top of the 
engine and then put the composite gasket on... well, looks like we are 
going to have turkey though... 
I guess they stopped making the setup I am looking for. Maybe I should 
get the "drooling - kid" (I loved that one...) at AutoZone in trouble and 
let him order me the good old 68 setup? Those guys think I am nuts 
anyway, they are in shock every time they acutally find a part for a 68 
in their computer!

$0.02...

George

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 20:41:37 -0700
From: "Andrew Conkey" <andrewc@novell.uidaho.edu>
Subject: Re: My first Big Block

Yes - me too - but I think you might have already told me ;-).....

Date sent:      	Tue, 20 Apr 1999 18:38:25 -0500
To:             	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
From:           	Brian Ammons <b_ammons@mail.utexas.edu>
Subject:        	Re: My first Big Block
Send reply to:  	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca

> At 03:12 PM 4/20/99 -0500, you wrote:
> >Well the car is finally running....
> 
> Hoo-Rah!
> 
> >3.73's with a TH-2004R.
> 
> I would like to know more about what modifications you made to the
> TH-2004R, as well as what year tranny, etc.  
> 
> >I have not run the quarter yet, but I know I am in the low 13's for
> >sure.
> 
> Congratulations!
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Brian Ammons             ICQ - 3585737
> MIS Major - UT Austin  b_ammons@mail.utexas.edu
> 2903 Breeze Terrace    http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~ammons/
> Austin, TX 78722          Home:	 (512) 236-8088 (Austin)
>                                               (713) 776-2110 (Houston)
> 1984 Oldsmobile          Pager:	 (512) 483-8056
> 	Delta 88                         (713) 318-5938
> 		4-door
> "The Party Barge"
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 00:41:37 EDT
From: SHANMAN14@aol.com
Subject: Oil and Air Filters for a 72 Cutlass S (350)

Where can I find Oil and Air Filters for my 72 Cutlass S.
Do any of the R&S Straus or Auto Zones carry them or do I need to order them 
from Fusicks or similar other catalogs? 

As always your comments and suggestions are most helpful.

Thanks,

Kevin S 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 23:44:00 -0500
From: Brian Ammons <b_ammons@mail.utexas.edu>
Subject: Re: My first Big Block

W-H-A-T are you talking about?

At 08:41 PM 4/20/99 -0700, you wrote:
>Yes - me too - but I think you might have already told me ;-).....
>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Ammons             ICQ - 3585737
MIS Major - UT Austin  b_ammons@mail.utexas.edu
2903 Breeze Terrace    http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~ammons/
Austin, TX 78722          Home:	 (512) 236-8088 (Austin)
                                              (713) 776-2110 (Houston)
1984 Oldsmobile          Pager:	 (512) 483-8056
	Delta 88                         (713) 318-5938
		4-door
"The Party Barge"
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 01:28:22 EDT
From: Socalolds@aol.com
Subject: Re: '66 Ram Air hose supports

Peter,
I have several sets for any one who needs them. Am asking $35 a set includes 
shipping.
Dennis

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 22:29:39 PDT
From: "Chris Rivier" <crivier@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: FS: '94 Cutlass Ciera

Oops that's 

cmcguill@texas.net

- ---------------------------------
For Sale:  '94 Olds Cutlass Ciera,  Silver w/ Blue interior.
Located:  Austin, Texas.     Asking:  $5200 FIRM
Contact: cmcguill@texas.net

V6 3.1 Ltr, Automatic,w/ 53K mi.  It has a/c,ps/pb,power 
windows/locks and power seats.  The body is in very good shape w/ 
only one minor dent behind drivers-side passenger wheelwell, where 
someone misjudged while parking.  This is a solid car that runs 
great.  It has no rust. Maintenance records available.  He is selling 
it, because he just bought a Jeep.

It is retailed at about $7900

- ---Asking $5200 firm (,but will take more :)---




_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

------------------------------

Date: 20 Apr 99 22:49:39 PDT
From: Randy Hermsen <76Cutlass@netscape.net>
Subject: 4inch airflt fit apology for com. skills

Wow big wow just found out through karl that I was e-mailin privately by
hittin the reply button on letters from the list Daaaaaaaaa....oops...
sorry to all person i affected....my typin skills s ck also  lol
The olds content is I put 4 inch air filter on adjusted hood supports up a
couple of turns then loose big balls of tinfoil on top of that big honkin
chrome air cleaner and shut the hood...opened hood to find perfect print of
under hood about 3/8  away from chrome top dont think engine or hood gonna
bounce that much Iam leanin towards puttin the 3 inch thk. back in dont think
advatage is worth the risk.what do you think
did I tell you the one about the guy who cured his w-z ex man. in the oven
down stairs   ..small fire in oven smoked the house up pretty good the wife
wanted to make sure I tell my oldsmo bros that one lol
                              Randy
                               76 cutlass supreme
                                   pics on the way

____________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at 
http://webmail.netscape.com.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 22:58:59 PDT
From: "Chris Rivier" <crivier@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Problems

Hi all,

If it is definitely not your headers or exhaust transfering heat from 
below, check out the heater door mechanism.  Even if you move the 
lever to from heat to cool, heat it can still come from the heater 
core.  I have seen where the heater door does not shut properly due 
to rusty or stretched cable.  Worth lookin' at.

Just my $.02,

Chris Rivier 
Austin,TX 
'66 Delta 88   The BEAST under CONSTRUCTION. 
'88 Festiva   ZIPPY 166K Lil' Parts Hauler. 
WrEck PiX @ http://www2.bladeti.com/cars


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 01:14:39 -0500
From: "Peter Landowski" <PETTRIX@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: rubber fuel line a no-no

The nylon line I am referring to passes NHRA tech...It is similar in
strength to steel braided line. THe only rubber part of the fuel line I
have is the piece that runs from the frame steel line to the fuel pump. If
this line ever broke fuel would not be pumped all over because fuel is
being sucked from the tank. The mechanical fuel pump would not work anymore
and the engine would die. Electronic fuel pump in the tank is different
because it is pushing fuel...


Pettrix@prodigy.net

> I have no info on the nylon aircraft lines, though nylon burns 
> readily, and steel tubing does not, if it were my car I would be 
> reluctant to use combustible fuel line.......I'm guessing that the 
> overwhelming requirement to save weight in aircraft might be the 
> reason they use this line in that application. Do they really use this 
> nylon line for fuel, and does this include routing it within inches of 
> a hot engine? I doubt it. Also aircraft are serviced much more 
> frequently than cars, and there is a mechanical pre-flight check 
> before every single take-off. Do you check your car's mechanical 
> health as often as that?  I don't.
> 
>> ________________________________________________________________
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 01:49:02 -0500
From: riksab@postoffice.swbell.net
Subject: HEATER NOISE

List,
    I have a69-98 2dr coupe,In the morning or cold days,my heater has a
tendencie to
whistle off -n- on(more like a screaming banshee)that can be heard for a
good 75feet
or so.sounds like plastic rubbing plastic at very high RPM.
very annoying!!!
any suggestions,besides earplugs?
chris-K.C.MO.
P.S. my flags at 1/2 mast.for all in colorado:-(

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 02:05:53 -0500
From: Brian Ammons <b_ammons@mail.utexas.edu>
Subject: Please tell me that I will not be shut out...

Well, kids...I am supposed to be studying for a test I have tomorrow, so of
course I am posting to the list.  Don't take that as an affront, though
(and therefore not answer) - this is something that has been bothering me
for a while.

I am in college, and I graduate in Spring 2000.  I do not currently have a
garage (or even carport), and am not capable of Oldsmobiling to my heart's
content at the present time.  I am anticipating having enough money (and
let's face it - without cash you're walking) in TWO YEARS, MAYBE SLIGHTLY
LESS to start doing the types of fun things (like engine rebuilding, frame
offs, sandblasting, porting/polishing heads, etc. etc.) that I hear all of
you talking about.  But not 'till then (PROBABLY).

MY QUESTION - Am I seriously missing out on my '69 442 convertible (in
particular) and '65-'72 A-bodies (in general) by not being in the game
right now?  Has anyone noticed that this is a "watershed moment" for this
era of Oldsmobile, perhaps similar to...let's say, '57 Chevy Bel-Airs in
the late '80s? (I vaguely recall reading that their value shot thru the
roof then, and and has not (and probably will not) come down again.)

Does anyone see what I'm asking?  In 2001, a 1969 Oldsmobile will be 32
years old.  I am worried that by that time, all of them will be either (a)
in the hands of people who will never sell them, (b) already have had
frame-offs, and will be stratosphericly priced accordingly, or (c) smashed
into a 3x3 cube.  Am I right?

Say no, say no, say no...


- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Ammons             ICQ - 3585737
MIS Major - UT Austin  b_ammons@mail.utexas.edu
2903 Breeze Terrace    http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~ammons/
Austin, TX 78722          Home:	 (512) 236-8088 (Austin)
                                              (713) 776-2110 (Houston)
1984 Oldsmobile          Pager:	 (512) 483-8056
	Delta 88                         (713) 318-5938
		4-door
"The Party Barge"
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 03:23:53 -0700
From: Greg Pruett <gregp@rbnet.com>
Subject: Re: Please tell me that I will not be shut out...

Brian Ammons wrote:
> 
> MY QUESTION - Am I seriously missing out on my '69 442 convertible (in
> particular) and '65-'72 A-bodies (in general) by not being in the game
> right now?  Has anyone noticed that this is a "watershed moment" for this
> era of Oldsmobile, perhaps similar to...let's say, '57 Chevy Bel-Airs in
> the late '80s? (I vaguely recall reading that their value shot thru the
> roof then, and and has not (and probably will not) come down again.)
> 
> Does anyone see what I'm asking?  In 2001, a 1969 Oldsmobile will be 32
> years old.  I am worried that by that time, all of them will be either (a)
> in the hands of people who will never sell them, (b) already have had
> frame-offs, and will be stratosphericly priced accordingly, or (c) smashed
> into a 3x3 cube.  Am I right?
> 
> Say no, say no, say no...

No.

I wouldn't think so anyway.  Olsmobiles just aren't as popular as
chevys, and their prices are correspondingly lower.  Try and sell a `57
Olds 88 for the price of a `57 chevy in the same condition...It ain't
gonna happen. I saw a `55 2-door 88 for sale not to long
ago...Restoration started, needs a lot of work, $800.  Try and find
~any~ 55 chevy for $800.  The chevies are just more popular....I hope
they stay that way too.  The Oldses will be cheaper that way. :)  I'm
sure the prices will go up but hopefully there will still be some good
reasonably priced A-bodies left by the time we get out of college.  

There were probably more Oldses made in the 60's than in the 50's too. 
Simply because there were more people to buy them so hopefully more 60's
than 50's cars will survive just because of sheer numbers.  


Greg Pruett
72 Vista Cruiser
67 Cutlass Supreme
80 Cutlass Calais
73 98 LS

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 05:52:22 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Meaning of Cutlass S in MCR

It's disappointing to see a magazine that purports to be "expert" get
something like that wrong. You can bet they wouldn't make the same mistake
if it was a Ch*vy. It makes you question the accuracy of most anything
they print. I don't know if Olds ever actually defined the "S" as standing
for "sport", but the '68 brochure implies that pretty clearly. A totally
different animal from a Supreme.

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 07:54:08 EDT
From: Harrell17@aol.com
Subject: Re: 350/455 swap (was 350/455 motor mounts)

Joe, There are 3 holes on each side of the block. The front I used to support 
the Power steering bracket and the A/C bracket on the other side. The 
remaining two are where I put my mounts. I have put in the 350 mounts and 
perchs and it bolted right in.,but my tranny problem is still there. I took 
out a 350 and replaced with a 400TH. Could it be that there is a different 
crossmember for this application? I haven't found anyone yet that knows. 
Thanks, Jim

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 08:04:20 EDT
From: Harrell17@aol.com
Subject: Re: 350/455 swap (was 350/455 motor mounts)

When I took the motor out of the Ninety eight it had those fat shims on the 
passenger side too. I tried to put them back in when I set my motor in and 
they didn't work. I put my mounts in the only holes that they could go in and 
the tranny is still back a couple inchs too far. I replaced a 350 with a 
400TH. I am wondering now if I need a different tranny crossmember but no one 
has had any ideas as of yet. How about you? Jim

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 08:07:40 EDT
From: Harrell17@aol.com
Subject: Re: Dual Gate Shifter.

If you have any luck find someone to work on your Dual Gate let me know, I'm 
going through the same thing. Thanks, Jim

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 20:41:49 -0500
From: Tracy Templeton <ttemplet@eta.k12.mn.us>
Subject: OLDHEMI



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:18:05 -0400
From: Darren King <KingD@sx.com>
Subject: 69 Cutlass worth?

I have seen a 69 Cutlass Supreme 4-door Holiday sedan
for sale on my way to work.  I am trying to figure out what
it's worth.  I assume it has a 350/350 engine/tranny combo.

The exterior is ok, rust along the bottom of most panels...
there is a patch that has been riveted in place on the front
driver's quarter.  The rear bumber has several rust holes in
it that go all the way through the bumper.  The frame is good.
The seats are torn up and there is no radio.  The dash looks
ok and it the hubcaps are good.

This car will need a new front quarter, bumber and the seats will
need to be covered again.  These are all expensive items.

What should I offer the guy...I'm in Canada.

Darren King

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:33:11 EDT
From: SrDietW30@aol.com
Subject: Carlise on Friday

How many people are going to be @ Carslie on Friday.  I will be there,  just 
wondering how many and maybe I will reconize some names when I go over to the 
OCA spaces @ noon.

Steve Dietrich
  S/E PA
    71 442 W30 Conv.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:51:42 -0500
From: Kerry Kroger <kerryk@cwix.com>
Subject: Re: 350/455 swap (was 350/455 motor mounts)

must have missed the beginning of the thread but the th-400 is longer than
the th 350 if the car is a 64-about 76 there should be enough holes to choos
from on the frame if not you may need to fabricate a cross member what year
car is this?
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <Harrell17@aol.com>
To: <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 7:04 AM
Subject: Re: 350/455 swap (was 350/455 motor mounts)


> When I took the motor out of the Ninety eight it had those fat shims on
the
> passenger side too. I tried to put them back in when I set my motor in and
> they didn't work. I put my mounts in the only holes that they could go in
and
> the tranny is still back a couple inchs too far. I replaced a 350 with a
> 400TH. I am wondering now if I need a different tranny crossmember but no
one
> has had any ideas as of yet. How about you? Jim
>

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #1915
*********************************

