
oldsmobile-digest           Tuesday, 9 July 1996        Volume 01 : Number 228


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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 21:16:25 -0300
Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) 

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> The last guy who rebuilt it painted it bronze for some reason.

Don't you have a 69 442?  That would be the correct color for the engine 
for a 69 442.  I've done the same thing in my 68 (paint a 455 bronze).

Anyway onto the misc....

I got my Mondello book finally and the Cars & Parts book.  The Mondello 
book almost qualifies for a magazine, instead of a book.  However, there 
is some good tech info in there.  Worth the money.  I haven't seen 
anybody mention the cars and parts book.  It it basically the how do you 
decode these numbers type of book.  However, it does include stuff all 
the way up to '91.  The other bonus in this book is the photos of paint 
and trim colors.  Very nice.

I've been really busy lately and have only been monitoring the list.  
Lots of traffic lately.  Glad to see that, but it sure makes it hard to 
keep up with.

- -Dan


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From: Dan Williams <dr_olds@kfmw.net>
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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 21:16:21 -0300
Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) 

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Michael Brady wrote:
> 
> Hi mike, No i recently joined the wisconsin chapter, but i have a funny 
> feeling your right, maybe i'll run into him at quad state this 
> september?

Very possible.  He's up north somewhere right now on vacation blowing up 
moose or something.

> Hey speaking of toro's, I've often wondered why they never reached a
> higher level of collectability? After all they were the " flag ship" of
> the olds line, and i believe way ahead of there time. 

Dunno.  I suspect it's due to the fact that Rocketheads in general have 
always been considered oddballs by the Chubby and F*rd folks and the 
Toroheads have always been considered to be oddballs by the 
Cutlass/442-heads.  We ARE odd (no argument there).  

Also, the Toros were sold as a "personal luxury" car not a factory/Hurst 
hot-rod (inspite of the fact it included one of the best motors Olds ever 
produced) so it never had the same road-monster image (or appeal) that 
some of the other Rockets do.  But time will tell!

> The 66' toro has really grown on me over the year's and it woulnd'nt 
> surprise me if some day one of these will sit next to one of my 4-4-2s. 

Good boy!

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649



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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 21:16:31 -0300
Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) 

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At 07:14 PM 7/7/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Does anyone on this list that belong/associate with the Dixie Olds Club 
>happen to know Phil Welch? Any response would be appreciated.
>
>
>Boyd Parker (aka Rocketeer)                
>
>Boyd:

Not being in an Olds club now, I don't believe that I know Phil Welch.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama                                          |
>
>
>
>



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From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:27:27 -0300
Subject: Goofy EMail

Anybody else getting goofy routing on their messages?

> InBox Message Type: Error
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> found to Message Center)

What the hell is this?

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 19:29:58 -0300
Subject: Other lists...

Does anybody know where I can get a list of other mailing lists?  My
brother, an Olds fan at heart, needs to find a list dealing with AMC's --
Gremlins in particular.  If anyone could point me in the right direction, my
brother would sure appreciate it.

(I personally think Gremlin's are one of the *ugliest* cars ever made, but
he sees something in it...)

Thanks!

- -BS

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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 21:29:11 -0300
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On Fri, 5 Jul 1996, Darrell T. Weinman, M.D. wrote:

> Dear Oldspersons:
> 
> Any information as to how to obtain '71 taillight bezels?
> 

Darrell,

Two words:  Larry Camuso.  He's a used parts seller in California whom 
I've dealt with several times, and he is excellent.  I currently have an 
order in with him now for a number of trim and interior pieces for my '75 
Delta 88.  He advertises in Hemmings.  Call him at (408) 286-6537, 9am - 
9pm, M-F.  And no, he's not my brother-in-law!


Dan Gulino


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From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
To: oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: Re: '71 442 taillight bezels
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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 21:29:14 -0300
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Dear Dan:

Thanks for the lead.  I'm familiar with his operation in San Jose, CA. 
from years back when I subscribed to the OCA newsletter.

I'll call him tomorrow

DTW


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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 21:29:13 -0300
Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) 

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Hello, All... I just purchased a cheepie Sun mechanical water 
temperature guage, and was wondering where I should install the sending 
unit. It says I can't use a "T" connector, and I don't want to disturb 
the computer's signal. It's a 1986 Olds 307/4Bbl. It's been pinging a 
lot, and I can't seem to get it to stop. I replaced the thermostat 
(190deg), radiator, hoses, and the water pump. I bought a flex fan 
today, and a spacer (gonna get rid of the clutch) but I would like to 
get the guage installed first so I can compare the temp readings. I know 
this isn't the most accurate gauge, but it will do fine for my needs... 
until I get that 455 built! I see three sending units in the front of 
the intake manifold, I assume the one in the very front is the oil 
pressure sender, due to it's small neck circumference. Which other one 
can I use?  

(as for the overheating, yes, the EGR valve is fine, I also bought a can 
of GM top engine cleaner which I am going to use today)


Sorry to be so long winded...

Mark S.

Fast Boat - Slow Car.. :(

P.S.  Does anyone have Mark Martone's Email address? (Clearwater FL)
- -- 
** Lost In Cyberspace, Wallowing In Technology **


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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 21:29:17 -0300
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>Does anyone know a good source for dashes. It seems most suppliers
>(Supercars, Year One...) deal with everything but.
>
>Also, does any one know of any solutions to fixing a cracked dash.

I would try Halls Olds salvage. last time I was there, they had three 69
dashes. Their address and phone is on the Olds page under Olds Parts
Sources link.


 EXCESSIVE IRON rules the road!
'65 442
'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender
 bryceman@442.com
 www.442.com




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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 21:08:27 -0300
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Has anyone seen some ad for an upcoming Woody Harrelson film in which an 
apparently 71-72 Cutlass catches wild air?

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%



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From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 21:37:14 -0300
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In a message dated 96-07-05 21:33:42 EDT, you write:

<<  And don't buy into 
 that garbage about underpowering speakers and how you MUST have a huge 
 power amp (spelled $$$$).  >>
 Mike:

Sure been there, done that.  Louder does not mean better, for sure.  We own
two Jeep Cherokees (the '87 is almost GM it has so many GM pieces).  I have a
$$ Pioneer system in the '87 including supposedly "matched" Pioneer speakers.
 Not bad.  It is the version for "trucks" by the way.

What really surprised me is the factory system in the '90.  Radio/tape deck
says made in Korea but it came with Jensen speakers.  It sounds GREAT. I'll
bet this system was designed for the car as opposed to buy it, install it and
take what it gives you.

The speaker wires for the factory system are thin as hair compared to the
_cables_ they try to sell in the stores.  Those things look like I could
connect the house heat pump through them.  Therefore I suspect that speakers
seldom, if ever in home/auto use, need such large conductors.

Right?

Bob


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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 21:37:16 -0300
Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) 

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mark wrote.
 I bought a flex fan
>today, and a spacer (gonna get rid of the clutch)
>
>I would keep the factory fan the clutch allows free spinning of fan when
>not needed, where as the flex fan turns all the time using more horse
>power the fastyer you turn it.  If the fan isn't working right replace the
>clutch unit they some times go bad.

Tim McChesney
71 cutlass convertable
74 cutlass supreme




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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 21:29:18 -0300
Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) 

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>Well its been a interesting weekend I got approached by a friend getting
>out of the militry and he wanted to get rid of his 74 cutlass supreme. He
>made me an offer to clean his militry houseing for the car.  Well needless
>to say I am the new owner of the car, its  a CA. car with 69,000 miles,
>Rocket 350,and the body is stright and paint is in good shape other than a
>few thin spots fron a heavey handed buffer. the only dislikes are the
>white and dark green interior and the points distributer.  Now I can take
>the 71 convertable out of daily service and put on some of the big parts
>that are waiting for a long weekend.

Tim McChesney
71 Cutlass convertable
74 Cutlass Supreme




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From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 19:38:12 -0300
Subject: Re: Goofy EMail

On Tue, 9 Jul 1996, Mike Frederick wrote:
> Anybody else getting goofy routing on their messages?
> 
> > InBox Message Type: Error
> > InBox Message Subject: Undeliverable message
> > InBox Message Text Follows:
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> > found to Message Center)
> 
> What the hell is this?

Working on it... these just started appearing. I've found the offending 
address and unsubscribed him, but these may continue for a time. I've 
written to the postmaster at the site and asked them if they could please 
stop flooding our list ASAP with their goofy bounce routine. Please bear 
with us, it may continue for a while. This happened once before and 
filled a few mailboxes. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 21:37:16 -0300
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In a message dated 96-07-06 17:20:43 EDT, you write:

<< Oddly, the Mondello high torque starter is the cheapest one I've seen for 
 olds.  Most run well over 200 bucks but the one in the Mondello catalog 
 is only 150.  Anyone else find a cheap one?
  >>

Hi Paul:

What is the advantage of these expensive "high torque" starters if one is
having no starter problems?  From what I have seen and read about them, they
are actually small electric motors using a reduction gear drive.  I thought
they were a "race" item intended to reduce weight a few ounces.

Other than that, what do they have to offer?

Bob Handren




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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 21:37:11 -0300
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Michael Brady wrote:
> i am in the process of installing dynomax coated header's
> on my 400 cu.in.olds motor, they are not cheap but i believe well worth
> it, they reduce engine compartment heat and stay looking great year after
> year, i am also installing a mondello high torque starter and shield for
> both starter and solenoid. Let me know what you pick out, good luck with
> your 67', i enjoyed my 67' 4-4-2 very much, it was saffron yeelow with a
> yellow interior, redlines, correct pipes, with air cond. and a 4-speed!!
> Good luck!!

  Jeez, you sound like a dynomax rep! ;)  I went with the dynomax headers 
(non-coated)... It is a major headache putting em in.. specially with the 
4-speed..  I had to dent the drivers side pipes to clear the steering shaft,
and 
the passenger side to clear the upper part of the "A" arm..  I hope you dont
end 
up having to dent your set.. I would imagine it will ruin the ceramic coating..

It took me a day to get the drivers side in and about half a day to put the 
passenger side in.  Now that they are in I'm getting a strange sound.. kinda
like 
a blower motor on high with bad berrings.  I think the headers may still be 
rubbing somewhere.. Looking back on it, I dont think they were worth the
trouble.. 
:(

Ken
Cleveland, Oh
1967 442 Convertible grudgingly with headers(4-speed too!)


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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 21:37:18 -0300
Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) 

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At 08:58 PM 7/7/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Michael Brady wrote:
>> 
>  Jeez, you sound like a dynomax rep! ;)  I went with the dynomax headers 
>(non-coated)... It is a major headache putting em in.. specially with the 
>4-speed..  I had to dent the drivers side pipes to clear the steering
shaft, and 
>the passenger side to clear the upper part of the "A" arm..  I hope you
dont end 
>up having to dent your set.. I would imagine it will ruin the ceramic
coating.. 
>It took me a day to get the drivers side in and about half a day to put the 
>passenger side in.  Now that they are in I'm getting a strange sound..
kinda like 
>a blower motor on high with bad berrings.  I think the headers may still be 
>rubbing somewhere.. Looking back on it, I dont think they were worth the
trouble.. 
>:(
>
>Ken
>
Ken:

I installed my one & only headers on my new 1973 Cutlass years ago & had the
same trouble.  Maintenance was poor too.  I annually replaced gaskets (I got
good at it too) and burned out solenoids on the starter.  Years later, when
they got rusty, I ditched them & replaced the stock system.  What a relief.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama
>
>



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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 21:47:42 -0300
Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) 

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At 08:09 PM 7/6/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Hello olds freaks, i thought i would introduce myself to everybody, i 
>know a lot more about oldsmobiles than i do computer's so if i mess up 
>please forgive me, i'm learning!!! 

Hi Mike...

I've got just the opposite problem, I've spent the last few years playin'
with computers and forgot half the stuff I learned about cars. So if I ask
some really stupid questions please forgive *me*, I'm relearning!

Todd Hall



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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 21:51:47 -0300
Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) 

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> From: Dana and Mary Taylor <dmtaylor@top.monad.net>
> Just ran across a pair of 82 toronados. Pretty complete. If anyone
> interested. also a question. I also ran across a pair of 2A heads and
> another pair of 10 or maybe an O not sure which. would either of these be
> a good choice for my 350 rebuild?

Actually, it's hard to imagine a WORSE pair of heads for a 350. Those are both
260 heads, with the teeny tiny squarish intake ports and motorcycle-size
valves. I thought we settled your heads dilemma: use any large-port SB heads
EXCEPT for #8's... such as #5A? 7a [little capital "A"], 7, 6, or 5.

> Hey speaking of toro's, I've often wondered why they never reached a
> higher level of collectability? After all they were the " flag ship" of
> the olds line, and i believe way ahead of there time. The 66' toro has

Well, a lot of folks are more interested in performance, ya know... [uh-oh,
*dons asbestos underwear*]

> really grown on me over the years and it woulndn't surprise me if some
> day one of these will sit next to one of my 4-4-2s. Take care.

Grown on you, like a.. oh never mind, I think the water's hot enough already!

> I drained the old gas out of my '72 Cutlass this morning. I pulled one of
> the fuel lines from the back of the tank and siphoned it out. What I was
> curious about is why are there four fuel lines out of the tank and where do
> they all go?

You don't have 4 carbs!? Heh. I'm guessing: Fuel supply to engine, return from
fuel pump, vapor to charcoal canister, and, uh, I dunno... MANUAL!
- -Chris-

> On Fri, 5 Jul 1996, Ken wrote:
> > The Mondello article calls for 455 Forged Buick rods in the recipe for the
4
93
> > Olds.  Are all Buick 455 rods forged?  I've found a 1976 Buick Electra
w/455
> > posi for $125.  Will the rods in this car be forged?
> 1) Yes, all Buick 455 rods are forged.

Aren't pretty much all rods forged. I mean, as opposed to what, cast? Heh.
That's one of my gripes about the Mondello Tech Manual- it list Olds rod ID's,
and a whole column is taken up noting that every one is "FORGED"... Why not
just a note, one line, that all are forged? If there are alternatives, then
list that there: "All Olds rods are forged, not [cast, drawn, welded
assemblies, whatever]."  -Chris-

> Does anyone know a good source for dashes. It seems most suppliers
> (Supercars, Year One...) deal with everything but.
> Also, does any one know of any solutions to fixing a cracked dash.

Uh, the place called "Just Dashes"...? You *do* have a Hemmings, right?
- -Chris-

> > To get it out, you need a hoist - you can rent that - & a friend or so to

Back when I was really poor? I used to use a Power Puller [hand wire rope
winch] and a 4x4 over the rafters in the garage. Tree limb, etc. same thing.
Will/way kinda thing... -Chris-

> The last guy who rebuilt it painted it bronze for some reason.

Maybe cuz Bronze is the correct color for your car's engine, and he wanted it
to look correct at first glance- until an expert starts checking numbers.
- -69 442, right?

> (Maybe bronze isn't a bad color for the time being ;) )

Or for later times...

> I can supply a dash for your 69. If interested, call me at (817))572-2924.
> Art Fuller

Yeah, if used-but-usable is OK, others have them also. I have a green one I
think. Gold maybe. What color you need, w/ or w/o air cond'g? Just the padded
part I presume. -Chris-
> From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
> Subject: RE: Hi Torque Starter
> Try a bone yard for a starter off the diesel 350. Its high torque as well.

Good call, those things have huge field coils. And weigh *2* tons.

> > The 66' toro has really grown on me over the year's and it woulnd'nt
> > surprise me if some day one of these will sit next to one of my 4-4-2s.

That VIRUS! It spreads & spreads! If only I had a -CARB- on the red one, I
could still drive it around the fields, too! -Chris-

> I got my Mondello book finally and the Cars & Parts book.  The Mondello
> book almost qualifies for a magazine, instead of a book.  However, there
> is some good tech info in there.  Worth the money.  I haven't seen

Yeah, and a few typos/ errors, too. Like listing, under cam bank angles chart,
the "425 except Toronado"... No kidding, not the '65 Toro motor, huh? Go
figure! I concur: small, limited in scope, but packed with fairly useful stuff,
and the best there is... yet.  -Chris-

> anybody mention the cars and parts book.  It it basically the how do you
> decode these numbers type of book.  However, it does include stuff all
> the way up to '91.  The other bonus in this book is the photos of paint
> and trim colors.  Very nice.

I'd love to hear more about this book- cost, where to get it, does it cover
only VIN docoding, or go into diff'l codes [as if you can read them], engine ID
by actual useful numbers like casting numbers [not tape attached to oil fill
tube!], does it cover all models not just Cutlass/442/Toro, etc. -Chris-

> pretty leniant, but I guess I don't want to take any chances.  The car is my
> 72 Delta 88 Conv. w/ stock 350, 4bbl Qjet, and stock single exhaust.  It runs
> great...starts right up and hustles that beast of a car all around town quite
> regularly.  Any advice?  Lean up the carb or leave it be?  Which fuel

Lean, but not to the point of misfire. Set points gap properly, if still using
that antique method of firing. Set timing a bit retarded.  -Chris-

> Hello, All... I just purchased a cheepie Sun mechanical water
> temperature guage, and was wondering where I should install the sending
> unit. It says I can't use a "T" connector, and I don't want to disturb
> the computer's signal. It's a 1986 Olds 307/4Bbl.

Well, you seem to have to either lose a stock sensor in the water passage, or
drill & tap a new hole for your sensor. Your call. -Chris-
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu


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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 21:47:43 -0300
Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) 

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- ------------------------- Original Message Follows -------------------------
At 10:48 PM 7/7/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Well for one they reduce a bit of weight, but the big thing is they can
spin a high compression engine over easier, and faster, without breaking
down as a conventional one tends to do after any time on such an engine.
>
>----------
>
>What is the advantage of these expensive "high torque" starters if one is
>having no starter problems?  From what I have seen and read about them, they
>are actually small electric motors using a reduction gear drive.  I thought
>they were a "race" item intended to reduce weight a few ounces.
>
>Other than that, what do they have to offer?
>
>Bob Handren
>
>Bob:

I have some high compression cars (1967 Toronado, 1968 442, 1970 Buick GS
455, 1963 Supercharged Avanti, 1969 390 AMX, 1963 Dodge 383, 1962 Dodge 361)
& they do fine on their standard starters.  The compression ranges form 9.0
to 10.75.  Most have AC & other electrical accessories.  Most starters are
old too.  I think that a good condition starter & electrical system will do
well on even high compression.  

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 21:47:48 -0300
Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) 

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- ------------------------- Original Message Follows -------------------------
On Sat, 6 Jul 1996, Chris Urban wrote:

> Try a bone yard for a starter off the diesel 350. Its high torque as well. 

It sure is - w two 1000 CCA batteries, those diesel starters can 
really turn over a 22.5:1 compression engine!

You better forget putting it in a ggas car tho - the body is lonmgger, 
which requires moving the driver's side motor mount forward.  You'd rip 
your hair out trying ro relocate the frame pad unless you yanked the motor.

Also, those diesel starters only weigh about 2.7 TONS (well, it feels 
like that when you are holding it with one hand. :)  

- -Rod "Luv them diesels!"
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Rod Rickenbach                                       Delaware Tech
     rod@dtcc.edu                                 Computer Services Department
http://www.dtcc.edu/~rod                            Stanton/Wilmington Campus



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Date: 	Mon, 8 Jul 1996 00:28:52 -0300
From: Rod Rickenbach <rod@hopi.dtcc.edu>
To: oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: RE: Hi Torque Starter
In-Reply-To: <01BB6C16.284F8140@ts11-02.ott.iSTAR.ca>
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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 21:47:45 -0300
Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) 

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- ------------------------- Original Message Follows -------------------------
Bryceman wrote:
> 
> >Does anyone know a good source for dashes. It seems most suppliers
> >(Supercars, Year One...) deal with everything but.
> >
> >Also, does any one know of any solutions to fixing a cracked dash.
> 
> I would try Halls Olds salvage. last time I was there, they had three 69
> dashes. Their address and phone is on the Olds page under Olds Parts
> Sources link.
> 
>  EXCESSIVE IRON rules the road!
> '65 442
> '66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender
>  bryceman@442.com
>  www.442.com

In case you want to have the equivalent of a brand new dash for your car 
rather than a repaired one, I can recommend Just Dashes in Van Nuys, CA. 
They will completely redo your core and match the grain and color (from 
an unfaded area of the original).  Their work is not exactly cheap but 
it certainly is outstanding--and probably the same cost as a repro would 
be if one were available. Their phone number is (818)780-9005. I've had 
them do four dashes for me including a '59 Cadillac (that's a tough 
one!) and I've never been disappointed.  Jim Davidson, Los Angeles


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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 21:47:39 -0300
Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) 

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Well for one they reduce a bit of weight, but the big thing is they can =
spin a high compression engine over easier, and faster, without breaking =
down as a conventional one tends to do after any time on such an engine.

- ----------
From: 	BobH592058@aol.com[SMTP:BobH592058@aol.com]
Sent: 	Sunday, July 07, 1996 9:09 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Re: Hi Torque Starter

In a message dated 96-07-06 17:20:43 EDT, you write:

<< Oddly, the Mondello high torque starter is the cheapest one I've seen =
for=20
 olds.  Most run well over 200 bucks but the one in the Mondello catalog =

 is only 150.  Anyone else find a cheap one?
  >>

Hi Paul:

What is the advantage of these expensive "high torque" starters if one =
is
having no starter problems?  From what I have seen and read about them, =
they
are actually small electric motors using a reduction gear drive.  I =
thought
they were a "race" item intended to reduce weight a few ounces.

Other than that, what do they have to offer?

Bob Handren








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From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
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Subject: RE: Hi Torque Starter
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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 21:51:54 -0300
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Todd Hall wrote:
> 
> At 08:09 PM 7/6/96 -0300, you wrote:
> >Hello olds freaks, i thought i would introduce myself to everybody, i
> >know a lot more about oldsmobiles than i do computer's so if i mess up
> >please forgive me, i'm learning!!!
> 
> Hi Mike...
> 
> I've got just the opposite problem, I've spent the last few years playin'
> with computers and forgot half the stuff I learned about cars. So if I ask
> some really stupid questions please forgive *me*, I'm relearning!
> 
> Todd Hall
> Hello todd!! Well between the two of us maybe we could restore a car
> and set up a web sight?? I finally broke down and bought a computer
> last february and i can see how one of these thing's can absorb a 
> whole bunch of time,money and effort, sound's like a car huh?? Thank's
> for dropping me a line and anytime i can help-i'll try!!

>Mike, owner of one nasty lil 69 4-4-2


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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 21:51:51 -0300
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At 05:32 PM 7/4/96 -0400, you wrote:
>I found a green liquid beginning to rust the front passenger floor pan in my
>`72 Vista Cruiser( A station wagon that is basically a Cutlass Supreme from
>the nose to the B-pillar).  That must be the heater core, I tried tightening
>the hoses down around the flanges but a week later the mess is back.

Yup, that's your heater core alright. It isn't so bad in the summer, when
you don't have the heat on; the heater control valve effectively shuts off
coolant flow through the core (though it is still present and will leak). If
you put your defroster on with the temp lever toward hot, your windows would
probably steam up.

> Anyone tried replaceing the heater core on a Cutlass with air conditioning?
>How long does it take?  My motor's auto repair manual says that the heater
>case assembly comes out after the blower motor is removed but that can't be
>right.  They must mean the blower an shroud along with it.

I've removed a couple of these (last one on a '72 Vista Cruiser I was
parting out a few months ago; hey, need any parts...? :), and as others have
mentioned, getting at them is the big problem. You have to remove the lower
ductwork, the glovebox (door can stay, just the inside), the vacuum lines
and control cable to the heater box, and some nuts (and bolts?) from the
engine-side of the firewall. The trick is finding which nuts and bolts, as
some are unnecessary and some are crucial, and this isn't apparent until
*after* you have removed everything (I believe one is hidden *inside* the
A/C box; you have to remove the blower motor resistor to access it- you
would *never* find this one on your own!). If someone on this list has a
shop manual from '72, that is the way to find out exactly what nuts you
should remove (seriously consider getting the shop manual for this car if
you are going to keep it; Year One has one for $46- a worthwhile investment
if there ever was one).

Once the nuts are removed, you have to pull the heater case until the studs
clear the firewall. The problem you will encounter is the firewall
insulation, which will want to stay attached to the heater box, and keep you
from dropping it down. As you begin to wiggle the case away from the
firewall, put your hand up there to push the insulation back against the
firewall. This will also keep you from tearing your insulation to shreds as
you drop the box down with all those sharp studs sticking out from it.

Once the case is out, of course, removing the old core from it and
installing the new one is very easy. Getting the whole thing back together
isn't that hard either. It helps to have *real small* hands, to reach all
the nuts and connectors.

>I have just got the heater core bypassed for now.  Any info would be very
>much appreciated.
>
>Greg Pruett

It is definitely a do-able job, just messy and awkward. If your carpet
wasn't already soaked from the antifreeze, I'd say to put down a dropcloth
to catch the fluid leftover in the core that *will* spill out when you drop
down the case.

Good luck, and get the shop manual!
Dr. Robert Barry
Theology Dept.
Providence College
Providence RI 02908



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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 21:51:49 -0300
Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) 

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Yeah   Larry gets my vote too. He's helped me here and there.   Although  I 
have to compete for parts with him when I need stuff.  Others deal in 
used OLDS stuff too but don't always give honest descriptions of the 
parts condition.


On Sun, 7 Jul 1996, Daniel Gulino wrote:

> 
> 
> On Fri, 5 Jul 1996, Darrell T. Weinman, M.D. wrote:
> 
> > Dear Oldspersons:
> > 
> > Any information as to how to obtain '71 taillight bezels?
> > 
> 
> Darrell,
> 
> Two words:  Larry Camuso.  He's a used parts seller in California whom 
> I've dealt with several times, and he is excellent.  I currently have an 
> order in with him now for a number of trim and interior pieces for my '75 
> Delta 88.  He advertises in Hemmings.  Call him at (408) 286-6537, 9am - 
> 9pm, M-F.  And no, he's not my brother-in-law!
> 
> 
> Dan Gulino
> 
> 


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From: Jeff Stanish <stanishj@svpal.org>
Subject: Re: '71 442 taillight bezels
To: oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 21:57:52 -0300
Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) 

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Hi,

Anyone know of a parts catalog that carries the annoying things like a =
grill plate for an 86 olds cutlass supreme. JC Whitney doesn't seem to =
do that kind of stuff, the dealer is too expensive, and I don't have =
time to go to junk yards.. I guess I am looking for a catalog like =
Dennis Kirk, but for cars... I can't put my car mask back on without =
replacing the passenger side that is partially snapped off. Anyone have =
an 800 number? Thanks.. Joanne


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From: Joanne Beausoleil <jbeausol@ftp.com>
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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 21:51:50 -0300
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I finally got the 403's shortblock assembled this weekend, and should be
installing it this week. I've got a few detail-type questions about it though.

1) Should the oil pump be primed in some way before I install it on the
engine? I've heard of people packing it with vaseline or another type of
grease, and know that a VW oil pump won't pump oil unless you fill it before
installation (don't ask how long I let the engine run before deciding that
oil light just *wasn't* going to go out...). What about on an Olds, then?
should I fill the pump with oil before installing it? Or would just
pre-lubing the engine be enough?

2) I've installed Mondello's windage tray on the bottom end, and have a few
questions about its "fit to application" nature. I dimpled the tray to clear
the rod bolts; should the edges be bent inward, however, to a specific
distance from the crank's counterweights in order to scrape off the oil? How
exactly should it fit?

In addition, 8 nuts are supplied to attach the tray to the extra-long studs;
how are they installed? I have the tray sandwiched between two nuts on each
stud; is that what he planned?

Yes, I have the Mondello tech guide, but all he talks about is dimpling the
oil pan to clear the studs (BTW, a note to JM; hire a professional editor
for your next edition of that manual. The excellent information you do
provide is muddled by your (dis)organization of material, your sentence
structure (please, at least one noun and one verb in each sentence), and
your grammar.)

Has anyone here on this list installed on of these pans? Any tips/warnings?

3) Finally, the rebuild kit included a freeze-plug package, but I'm at a
loss as to where some of the plugs they provide go. The cam plug and the
freeze plugs are pretty self evident; it's the specs on the rear left oil
galley plug that I need help on (the one that covers up the threaded galley
plug). There are three plugs left in the kit: 19/32" (definitely not it),
29/32" and 15/16" plugs. It appears as though either of these last two plugs
could be used for that hole, but I don't want to use up one meant for
another place where the other plug *wouldn't* work.

Once that Q is answered, then where do the other two plugs go? Is one of
these (the 19/32" perhaps) the oil pump pressure spring retaining cup? The
shop manuals give no indication of possible uses for the two remaining
plugs. Any experience here would be greatly appreciated.
Dr. Robert Barry
Theology Dept.
Providence College
Providence RI 02908



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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 21:55:57 -0300
Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) 

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It depends what you consider high compression. 10.75:1 compression is not 
the kind of compression you'd find in the racing engine the starters were 
designed for.  also, depending on the camshaft you can end up with more 
or less cylinder pressure with the same compression ratio.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%



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From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
To: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Cc: oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: RE: Hi Torque Starter
In-Reply-To: <199607080309.WAA07237@fly.HiWAAY.net>
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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 21:57:49 -0300
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Yes there are such a thing as cast rods.  I know there are more, but the 
example I can think of offhand is that Pontiacs come stock with rods cast 
out of a material called Armasteel

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%



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From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
To: Chris Brown Witt <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Cc: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu, oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: Re: #10 heads, misc stuff
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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 21:55:52 -0300
Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) 

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Todd Hall wrote:
> 
> At 08:09 PM 7/6/96 -0300, you wrote:
> >Hello olds freaks, i thought i would introduce myself to everybody, i
> >know a lot more about oldsmobiles than i do computer's so if i mess up
> >please forgive me, i'm learning!!!
> 
> Hi Mike...
> 
> I've got just the opposite problem, I've spent the last few years playin'
> with computers and forgot half the stuff I learned about cars. So if I ask
> some really stupid questions please forgive *me*, I'm relearning!
> 
> Todd Hall
> Hello todd, maybe between the two of us we could restore a car and
> build a web site??? and there is no such thing as a stupid question!!
> Thank's for dropping me a line and if can ever help with your old's 
> question's i'll try.


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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 21:56:00 -0300
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I'm looking for the individual who got the engine kit for his 403 for
like $620 with forged pistons, rockers, etc. from Performance Suspension
Technologies?  How was the stuff?  What brand pistons?  Adjustable
rockers?  And who are you, because I forgot.  Sorry.  How rude.

Their number, for anyone interested, is
800 247-2288

Thanks much,
Shawn


______________________________________________
Shawn M. Twomey  |  "No!  Try not!  Do, or do
stwom@ctp.com    |   not.  There is no try."
                 |   -Yoda
______________________________________________
                                


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From: Shawn Twomey <stwom@ctp.com>
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Subject: Performance Suspension Technologies
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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 21:55:56 -0300
Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) 

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beats me, i don't use one. just thought it was interesting that 
mondello's one was the cheapest.  id figure it offers increased header 
clearance and increasted starting torque for engines with high cylinder 
pressure upon cranking.  other than that i'd assume its an all-new 
starter as opposed to a rebuilt one.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%



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From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
To: BobH592058@aol.com
Cc: oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: Re: Hi Torque Starter
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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 21:57:52 -0300
Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) 

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     Anyone in the Baltimore-Washington DC areas who may be interested:
     
     The next meeting of the Capitol City Rockets Chapter of the Oldsmobile 
     Clib of America will be Wednesday July 10 @ the Davis Library in 
     Montgomery County.  It is located on Democracy Blvd in the triangle 
     made by I-495 and the I-270 spurs.  It starts about 7:30 in the large 
     meeting room {If I remember right}.  Any questions, get me at the 
     following addresses.
     
     work - brad.nicholson@ssa.gov
     home - 76062.3042@compuserve.com
     
     Later
     
      ---
     | | | Brad Nicholson
     | | | 1987 442 W-42
     | | | President - Capitol City Rockets, OCA
     |/|\| work - brad.nicholson@ssa.gov
     | | | home - 76062.3042@compuserve.com
      ---



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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 21:57:56 -0300
Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) 

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BobH592058@aol.com wrote:
> 
> The speaker wires for the factory system are thin as hair compared to 
> the _cables_ they try to sell in the stores.  Those things look like I 
> could connect the house heat pump through them.  Therefore I suspect 
> that speakers seldom, if ever in home/auto use, need such large 
> conductors.

Need?  Not really.  Could benefit from?  Sure.  Is it noticable?  Rarely.
The resistance of the wire does have some effect upon the speaker's 
operation: some power is lost in the wire and it effects "dampening".  
(The dampening factor is the ability of the amp to prevent the speaker 
cone from "rebounding" back and forth on it's own rather than moving 
proportional to the sound.  Higher resistance in the wires will reduce 
the effectiveness of the amp's ability to control the speaker.)

Since wire runs for most home systems tend to be pretty short and those 
in cars not much longer, the gauge of the wire has a minimal effect.  If 
you're going to set up a sound reenforcement system for a stage with 100' 
runs, then it matters a good deal.

My recomendation is zip-cord -- the wire you'd use for table lamps.  It's 
cheap; you can buy it anywhere; it's the right gauge; comes in white, 
brown, & clear; and it's polarized (it has a marking, usually a ribbing, 
on one wire).

Small PS:  Always use stranded wire, not solid.  Electrons travel on the 
surface of the wire (skin effect) and stranded wire has more surface.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649



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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 21:57:55 -0300
Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) 

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     Hey,
     
     Oldsmobile got their home page up and running just after July 1.  When 
     I got there, a certain Toronado owner had already been there and left 
     his mark in the message area already (you know who you are)  Looks 
     like it could develope into a nice enthusiasts site.  It has a 
     swapmeet area, and of course stuff on the new model lines.  The 
     transfer rate seemed real slow.  You definetely need the ShockWave and 
     Quicktime VR add ons for Netscape Navigator to make the site "move".  
     Their address is of course: http://www.oldsmobile.com
     
     Later
     
      ---
     | | | Brad Nicholson
     | | | 1987 442 W-42
     | | | President - Capitol City Rockets, OCA
     |/|\| work - brad.nicholson@ssa.gov
     | | | home - 76062.3042@compuserve.com
      ---



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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:06:31 -0300
Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) 

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BRAD.NICHOLSON@s3abac8.ssa.gov wrote:
> 
> Oldsmobile got their home page up and running just after July 1.  When
> I got there, a certain Toronado owner had already been there and left
> his mark in the message area already (you know who you are).

Who?  Me?

> Looks like it could develope into a nice enthusiasts site.

Sure does.  Hope we can maintain a dialogue with them.  I figure it could 
only be in our best interest to have friends at corporate.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649



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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:06:34 -0300
Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) 

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     Oldsmobile has a neat CD-ROM available for the incredible price of 
     FREE!!!  It's the "Oldsmobile Virtual Showroom" and of course there is 
     the usual sales hype but it also comes with a street map program from 
     Comptons.  I found mine and my parents streets on it.  WILD.  (my 
     street is only 3 years old and is still skiped on newer maps)  GET 
     YOUR COLLECTABLE by calling 1-800-850-8524.  There was an add in a 
     freinds June 10 Fortune Magazine, their auto issue. I got mine in 
     about 2 weeks.  Just something more to collect dust.
     
      ---
     | | | Brad Nicholson
     | | | 1987 442 W-42
     | | | President - Capitol City Rockets, OCA
     |/|\| work - brad.nicholson@ssa.gov
     | | | home - 76062.3042@compuserve.com
      ---



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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:06:36 -0300
Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) 

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Robert J. Barry wrote:
> 
> Other than that, this Toro is one sweet ride. 

Aren't they, though.

> You can tell that this was a quality car when it was built...

IMHO, one of the very best cars EVER built.

> ...it'll be as good as any new Lexus; heck, it'll be *better*, with 
> more interior space, better styling, easier service, all for about 
> two-months lease payment on a new Lexus.

Toro!  Toro!  Toro!  OK, now everybody...

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649




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Subject: Re: HELP! Need governor for TH425 in '69 Toronado!!! ASAP!!!
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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:06:38 -0300
Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) 

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- ------------------------- Original Message Follows -------------------------
Robert J. Barry wrote:
> 
> The governor driven gear on my '69 Toronado is stripped, and I need a
> replacement ASAP. 

Bob, 

You might try Oldsmobile USA in Va (703) 335-1935.  They list a lot of 
transmission parts in their catalog.  They don't list the gov. but they 
do say they have a COMPLETE (?) line of parts and to call if you don't 
see want you want listed.

Chris Witt (wittchri@pilot.msu.edu) or Bob Handren (BobH592058@aol.com) 
might also be of some help.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649




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Subject: Re: HELP! Need governor for TH425 in '69 Toronado!!! ASAP!!!
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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:06:39 -0300
Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) 

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hey!!!

finally some owners of older stuff!!!


if you want you can e-mail me directly at

  jjf97@uno.cc.geneseo.edu

write me at:

	joe ferrero
	

	13 rorbach lane
	geneseo, ny 14454

i have a 1947 olds model 76 2 door fastback

and a 1948 olds model 66 4 dr sedan

my 48 is restored back to original and my 47 is being restored....
if you have any "?"'s or need any leads, let me know.

i also know a person near me that has a 2 door coupe and a "parts car"
2 dr fastback both  have 66 series.


if you want it talk to me!!!   =)

and welcome on!!!!


- --joe


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Date: 	Mon, 8 Jul 1996 11:35:38 -0300
From: JJF97@uno.cc.geneseo.edu
Subject: Re: 47 olds 2 dr fastback 66 series
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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:16:36 -0300
Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) 

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Lloyd Culp wrote:
> 
> I think that a good condition starter & electrical system will do
> well on even high compression.

Me too.  They did when they were built, didn't they?

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649



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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #228
********************************

