To:	oldsmobile-digest @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET @ ABTLAB
Date:	09/02/96 11:42:02 PM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #287


oldsmobile-digest         Monday, 2 September 1996      Volume 01 : Number 287


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 23:39:08 -0300
Subject: Re: 78-87 Guage Cluster circuit board

Well then maybe my guage is working ok. I am used to my Z/28 with the high
volume oil pump reading 30 at idle and 40-50 under acceleration...

At 08:56 PM 9/1/96 -0400, The Viking wrote:
>
>My 79 service manual indicates oil pressure should be 7 psi at slow idle 
>and 36 psi at 1500 - 3500 rmp.  This is for 260, 350. and 403 engines.  
>Hope this helps. 
>
>AL
>
> "The Viking"
>  PGP Public Key Available by E-Mail Request
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com)
1988 IROC Z/28...............salvage yard special
1980  4-4-2 W-30.............1 of  886       OCA#027572
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25...1 of 2535  H/OCA#0278A
Just what the doctor ordered....those awesome W-Machines.

------------------------------

From: jgoble@nishanet.com (Jeramy Goble)
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 02:45:05 -0300
Subject: 69 Toronado

Hey everyone, I got a 69 toronado, and was wondering if anyone has some
extra fuel system or engine parts.. (Or anything else you need to get rid 
of...)
Thanks...

					Jeramy Goble
Jgoble@nishanet.com

------------------------------

From: Brad Baker <bradbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 23:47:22 -0300
Subject: 68 cutlass

Hey there Craig,
It seems like we are the only '68 fans out here.Thats alright with me,leaves
more parts for us to scrounge!!
I bought a '68 Cutlass S (dont know if it is CS) convertable,originally dark
green with a black top about 2 months ago.It has 155,840 miles on it,had
only one owner from R.I. and I believe that it has the original motor,trany
and rear end.I to need to fix the standard rust areas behind all four wheels
and do lower balljoints and shocks and springs all around.I have at least
one,maybe two cylinders that have hardly any compression when tested and
make no difference in idle when the plug wires are removed.It needs the
front buckets recovered and the carpets replaced.The top keeps water out,but
should be replaced someday. Sounds like a heap,but I still love it anyway!!
I know,someday I will be old too and I hope someone still loves me.
I thought that i knew something about Olds,but the folks on this forum have
done some more homework than me.I heard about "cheater" panels for the rear
quarters that replace just the lower section that rusts out all the time.I
am going to look into these soon.I could use some "backyard" suggestions on
diagnosing the bad cylinders and what to do with them.I also need a parking
brake release knob and peddle cover.I dont have any other cars or parts now
but I got my drivers license with a '68 Vista Cruiser and drove that as well
as another '68 convt back in the late '70s to early '80s. Blew the engine
and got married at about the same time so had to lose the ragtop,but I said
I would get another one someday. Now with a happy family of me,my honey and
three kids,we need a convertable that will buckle 5 people. Enter the '68
Cutlass. They dont make convertables that will buckle 5 anymore. So now I
have a hobbie to keep me busy and a toy to make the family happy on nice
days!! Well, thats my Oldsmobile story. Thanks for having a forum for Q+A to
use.Talk to you later....

BTW Craig,is kissrulz@gnn.com your address,or your philosophy on life?

Brad-'68s. Gotta love those tail lights,too...

bradbaker@worldnet.att.net

------------------------------

From: Brad Baker <bradbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 00:06:26 -0300
Subject: One more question

Sorry to bother everyone at this late hour(11:00 East coast),but I am not
sure what NOS stands for.Now dont laugh,,,at one time you didnt know either.
Also,how do I find out if my car('68 cutlass s convt) has matching and
original numbers on it? Thanks for the help...Brad.

Wouldnt you rather drive a '68?

------------------------------

From: Brad Baker <bradbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 00:19:01 -0300
Subject: Re: car show adventures

>I know what you mean!  I have been seing this '66 442 hardtop at a weekly 
>show this summer, and recently overheard the owner bragging that he won the 
>top trophy at a local BIG Olds dealer's show.  When I heard that, I 
>practically SPIT on his car.  Please, an Edlebrock (spelling?) intake, red 
>colored radiator hoses, chromed this and that.  Not nearly what his '66 
>should really be.  Sure, the interior was really nice, but the rest I was 
>ready to recycle my beer all over.  I can't wait until I completely restore 
>my '68 442 convertable and make him eat my s**t!
>
>                                                 Craig Dobbins
>                                                 Lockport, NY
>                                                 '68 442 Convertable.
>
Whoaold on there Craig!!! Save some of your energy to work on that car of 
yours.
All this talk about bogus show voting is making think that my idea is still
a good one; Make the car safe and clean and drive it whenever you can. I
cant see sitting there every day and polishing the fenders just to win a 
trophy.

Have a beer and dream about cruisin' top down!!! See ya...

Brad--Colchester,CT.

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 19:16:52 -0300
Subject: Re: 68 cutlass

Brad Baker wrote:
> 
> Hey there Craig,
> It seems like we are the only '68 fans out here.Thats alright with me,leaves
> more parts for us to scrounge!!
> I bought a '68 Cutlass S (dont know if it is CS) convertable,originally dark
> green with a black top about 2 months ago.It has 155,840 miles on it,had
> only one owner from R.I. and I believe that it has the original motor,trany
> and rear end.
> 
> Brad-'68s. Gotta love those tail lights,too...
> 
> 


Brad,

There are several '68's out here.  I have a '68 442 convertible that I 
have had fun w/for the last 10 years or more.  You will probably hear 
from several other '68 owners.

It is amazing how big these cars feel compared to my Lebaron.  I love 
mine though & it cruises so nice.  Too bad it has a 3.91 rear.  I 
believe that I heard that my 2.93 posi rear can be converted to 3.42's 7 
that will make my 4-speed & tach happier.

That handle & pedal pad is generic to '68-'72 GM B bodies & possibly the 
big cars too.  Look in the salvage yard.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 19:19:25 -0300
Subject: Re: 69 Toronado

Jeramy Goble wrote:
> 
> Hey everyone, I got a 69 toronado, and was wondering if anyone has some
> extra fuel system or engine parts.. (Or anything else you need to get rid
> of...)
> Thanks...
> 
>                                         Jeramy Goble
> Jgoble@nishanet.com


Jeramy,

I don't have any parts, but I do have a '67 Toronado.  Congradulations 
on yours.  Consider joining the Toro List also.  Sign up at Bryceman's 
page.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Brad Baker <bradbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 00:43:30 -0300
Subject: Re: 68 cutlass

At 22:16 09/01/1996 +0000, you wrote:


>Brad,
>
>There are several '68's out here.  I have a '68 442 convertible that I 
>have had fun w/for the last 10 years or more.  You will probably hear 
>from several other '68 owners.
>
>It is amazing how big these cars feel compared to my Lebaron.  I love 
>mine though & it cruises so nice.  Too bad it has a 3.91 rear.  I 
>believe that I heard that my 2.93 posi rear can be converted to 3.42's 7 
>that will make my 4-speed & tach happier.
>
>That handle & pedal pad is generic to '68-'72 GM B bodies & possibly the 
>big cars too.  Look in the salvage yard.
>
>Bill Culp
>Decatur, Alabama
>

Bill,

Sorry to leave anyone out of that catagory,but I have only been on this mail
page for a few days and didnt see much from '68 owners.Thanks for the tip on
the pedal cover.My neighbor said that I have a 12 bolt rear by looking at
the back of the car,underneath. Can that be true? How would I know the gear
ratio? It has the 2-speed transmission and a 350 w/2 barrel. Thanks....Brad.

'68 Cutlass convertible...

Not only Bikers can have bugs in their teeth....

------------------------------

From: Brad Baker <bradbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 00:58:12 -0300
Subject: Pumpkin time

Holy Cow!!Look at the time! I'm going to turn into a pumpkin soon.Gotta go
for tonight. Good talking to everyone...See ya soon.. Brad.

------------------------------

From: "Marvin Friesen" <gowest@mail.awinc.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 01:03:30 -0300
Subject: 1976 Cutlass S

Just discovered the Oldmobile Mail List today.

I own 2 1976 Olds Cutlass S's. The first one I purchased brand new. I am
the second owner of the second (since 1991).

I also once bought a 77 Supreme which I parted out.

I daily drive a 1983 Delta 88.

I'm wondering if there are any other fans of the 76-77 Cutlass's or am I in
a world of my own.

I think their only claim to fame is (1) the body was used in NASCAR racing
for a few years (and the last time an Olds won a NASCAR championship); (2)
last year equiped with a 455; (3) great engines.

I fell in love with them at the tender age of 16 when they appeared in the
show room with those new smoother lines and lower hood, and those
rectangular headlights. I special ordered mine that winter. 

Both Cutlass's have 350 Rockets. Both are all original.

I think I have the last 2  73-77 Cutlass's in this city of 15,000. Rust
gets them before their time. 

If any one has questions about the car, especially trim, options and
quirks, I may be able to help. After 20 years, I also know the strengths
and weakness (paint, rust) of the car pretty good.


Marvin
BC, Canada

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 20:16:22 -0300
Subject: Re: 68 cutlass

> Bill,
> 
> Sorry to leave anyone out of that catagory,but I have only been on this mail
> page for a few days and didnt see much from '68 owners.Thanks for the tip on
> the pedal cover.My neighbor said that I have a 12 bolt rear by looking at
> the back of the car,underneath. Can that be true? How would I know the gear
> ratio? It has the 2-speed transmission and a 350 w/2 barrel. Thanks....Brad.
> 


Brad,

The 12-bolt count comes from the number of bolts in the inspection cover 
on the rear of the housing.  These are not the same as the 12-bolt rears 
famous on Chevy's.

You can find out the axle ratio by jacking up the car (both rear 
wheels), block the front wheels so that the car won't move, take the car 
out of gear, mark the driveshaft w/chalk or something visible so that 
you can see count the turns of the shaft, mark a rear wheel so that you 
can see a full turn, turn a rear wheel 1 turn & count the number of 
turns & partial turn of the driveshaft.

If the driveshaft made 2.5 turns while the wheel turned once, you have a 
2.50 rear gear.  If it made 2.75 turns, it is a 2.75 gear etc..

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Brad Baker <bradbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 01:21:48 -0300
Subject: Re: 1976 Cutlass S

At 04:03 09/02/1996 +0000, you wrote:
>
>I'm wondering if there are any other fans of the 76-77 Cutlass's or am I in
>a world of my own.
>
>I fell in love with them at the tender age of 16 when they appeared in the
>show room with those new smoother lines and lower hood, and those
>rectangular headlights. I special ordered mine that winter. 
>
>If any one has questions about the car, especially trim, options and
>quirks, I may be able to help. After 20 years, I also know the strengths
>and weakness (paint, rust) of the car pretty good.
>
>
>Marvin
>BC, Canada
>
>
Marvin,

I have a '68 Cutlass ragtop but have always liked the '76-'77 model
years,too. I looked into buying a used one back in '81,but didnt have enough
cash or cerdit at that time. I know there are some small differences like
the tail lights,but I dont know if I could tell them apart anymore. Have fun
with your cars and welcome to the mail room.

Brad- 
Colchester,CT.
bradbaker@worldnet.att.net

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 20:22:44 -0300
Subject: Re: One more question

Brad Baker wrote:
> 
> Sorry to bother everyone at this late hour(11:00 East coast),but I am not
> sure what NOS stands for.Now dont laugh,,,at one time you didnt know either.
> Also,how do I find out if my car('68 cutlass s convt) has matching and
> original numbers on it? Thanks for the help...Brad.
> 
> Wouldnt you rather drive a '68?

Brad,

NOS doesn't stand for New Old Stock, but that is about what it means.  
This is a part that has never been used, is a factory part, & is 
probably a little old & shop worn.  This is opposed to a new part that 
has just been manufactured.

I don't have the codes we/me to tell you what to look for on the engine 
& body identification plate.  You'll probably be hearing from someone 
soon though.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Brad Baker <bradbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 01:27:35 -0300
Subject: Re: 68 cutlass

At 23:16 09/01/1996 +0000, you wrote:

>The 12-bolt count comes from the number of bolts in the inspection cover 
>on the rear of the housing.  These are not the same as the 12-bolt rears 
>famous on Chevy's.

Bill,
Could this be a posi rear end?I know you dont have much to go on,but any idea?
thanks for the info...Brad. 

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 02:13:07 -0300
Subject: NOS 

NOS stands for "new old stock" I think it means stuff that sat on dealer 
shelves
long enough to be obsolete, then bought by someone who specializes in obsolete
stuff. Hence, new old stock. 
cf

------------------------------

From: Jeff Stanish <stanishj@svpal.org>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 02:09:03 -0300
Subject: Re: Decals (and a $ saving resto-tip)

Boy I'm glad to see others with the same complaint I have with Corneas 
stuff. Granted I appreciate the guy for trying BUT I'd pay twice the 
price if it would last 10 times as long.

I bought some decal from Jim Osborn reproductions (Not for an olds) but 
was really impressed with the quality.  

Anyone else out there purchase any of Osborns stuff?

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 02:19:17 -0300
Subject: 1966 Hubcaps 

Does anyone know what hubcaps they put on 1966 big olds cars with the 15" wheel
option? I put disc brakes on mine and switched up to 15" wheels so my old
hubcaps didn't fit. I'm using late model stuff now and would like to know what
they originally used. 

Checking Hollanders, I don't see a listing for 15" 1966 olds, just the simple
14" and fancy 14" which are available. Hope someone can help with this mystery.
I'm pretty sure 15" wheels were rare on 1966 98's like mine. 

Look forward to your comments
chris fair
/.

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 02:26:31 -0300
Subject: Parts available 

Cleaning up the garage today and came across the following items I don't need
anymore. If anyone has interest let me know and I'm sure we can work something
out. All items have been stored in doors in my Northern California garage and
cared for as if I might use them again. 

1) 1 Offy Portosonic Holley intake manifold, used for about 2 years until I
put in HEI which does not fit with this manifold. Very good shape, just needs
cleaning. 4 barrel square bore with a few misc. vacuum fittings still on it.
Lightly used ( hey I have a 98, it's not like I can run 12's with 4,500 pounds
of car...)

2) BB Point distributor/wires, fully functional as of when I took it off
probably 6 or so years ago. No up down or unpleasant out or round movement
when I checked it tonight. 

3) 1965 98 2 door sedan rear quarter lower window edge trim. Buffed almost
back to mirror. Hate to throw this away, but will in case of no interest.
These are the pieces with the rubber to keep water out of the rear quarter
where the window goes. 

4) Mallory unilite distributor, new but I miswired it and fried it shortly
after buying it 9 years ago. Now I'm using factory HEI and happy with it. Can
anyone repair and use this unit? The mechanicals are new, but the electrical
bits are not working. At least that's how I remember it. BB Olds distributor.

I'm aiming to get these things into the hands of people who can use them and
do a minimum of shipping. If you can simplify my life and take the lot as a 
whole, price falls.

Hope this helps some of you. Probably best to respond to me directly rather
than through the list. (cfair@fairisaac.com)
cf
.

------------------------------

From: Nick DiGiovanni <ndigiova@direct.ca>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 01:41:16 -0300
Subject: Re: car show adventures 

At 04:37 PM 9/1/96 -0300, you wrote:
      
>I saw my first Pinto in a show.  It had only 35000 miles & looked wonderful.

>Bill Culp
>Decatur, Alabama

Hey Bill, a Pinto that looked wonderful?!?  Isn't that an oxymoron ;')


Nick DiGiovanni
Port Coquitlam, B.C.
1970 4-4-2 - "Snarls Softly and Carries a Big Kick"

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 02:48:32 -0300
Subject: Halls Visit 

Long but very olds related:

I was out on the road last week and stopped in at Halls on Saturday with Bryce.
He's a great host and I got to ride in his 1966 88 Apprehender. This is a cool
car. 

For those of you, like myself, who are remote from Hall's Olds Salvage, I 
thought you might like an eye witness report. First off, I'm happy such a 
specialist
exists, so I'm forgiving if they're a bit price conscious. That is, they know
what they have, but we negotiated a bit and I did o.k. on a volume purchase.

We started with a room that has 3 50-60 foot tables full of Olds scripts,
parts and things bought up as obsolete parts and quality stuff taken from cars
in the yard. They seem to have a fair number of lenses, some books and scripts
from years from 1947 on up.  I got a nice 66 hood spar, washer jar and a 66 98
taillight lens (in the box!) from this room. These lenses are 1 year, 1 model
only, so a perfect one is a real find. 

The yard is an outstanding collection of mid-60's big & little olds, even a few
vista cruisers with those great windows that are so unusual. General condition 
of the cars is o.k. to good, but most show the effects of midwest winter and 
summer. 

As an example I was looking for a cruise unit since mine makes the speedo
waver all over the place. They had one complete and one incomplete, both cases
were quite bleached out and the wiring harness connectors looked real brittle.
I decided to keep hunting. I was also looking for the plastic chromed end to
my gear lever. All the ones they had were cracked and flaking. I think this is
a design flaw, not their fault at all. Still it was interesting to see the 
effects of 30 years of use on this part across about 40 vehicles. 

They had 5 to 7 66 and 67 Toros, none were particularly loaded, none
particularly stripped clean. The yard guy said the steel toro cranks go out as
fast as they come in. Same for tilt&tele. Most of the 65 and 66's had good 
windows, but the bodies were hit&miss on rust. Probably more rusty than not,
but I wasn't paying too much attention to that. 

Found some nice '66 98 stainless and chrome trim. That's the sort of thing 
that seems to survive well in this climate.  Bryce and I spent 2.5 hours 
and it was a real fun stop. Halls is 42 mi. NW of Topeka, KS and kind of 
hard to find in Soldier, west of Holton (?).  Cool day. 

Hope this was and o.k. balance of detail and length. 
cf

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 02:54:32 -0300
Subject: Re: SSI 

Now that Greg mentions it in all my traveling through the late 60's Olds' I
dont recall seeing any on stock '68 or '69's either - ?  I had them on my
'67 & always kept my eye out as I love their look.   
And the answer is....
Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 & '72 Vista Cruiser

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/lisa.htm


                   \\\\\\|/////
                    \\ - - //
                    ( 0 0 )
      ----oooO--(_)--Oooo---


          .oooO
             (   )    Oooo.
       ----- \  (----(   )--------
               \_)    )  /
                      (_/   
           Hang in there!!

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 02:57:14 -0300
Subject: Thermo Fan 

How do you identify a non-fixed (thermo, bimetallic or viscous) that works
from one that doesn't in the junkyard? Was thinking this might work better
than my flex fan, but I don't know how to tell the difference between good
and bad ones.
thanks in advance
cf

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 03:19:46 -0300
Subject: Re: 1966 Hubcaps 

I'm the one who posted the local guy with the big binder showing all factory
'caps for all makes, back to at least '65 (from what I remember, I went in
looking specifically for '72 & checked on the current price on my '67 D'lux
wire jobs)  The place is Hubcaps Only (Anaheim CA) Phone- 714/758-0700.  I
just went & dug this receipt out of my glovebox - out from under all my
Doors tapes & all  other receipts on the car....old registrations back to
'72.....spare napkins.....a hairband.....a mysterious short piece of rubber
hose that probably belongs somewhere on the car - all of which came OUT
easily but I had to CRAM back in...plus its 11:19 pm PST (hows that for
Pumpkin Time Brad?)  One of the twins has the flu though - second kid outta
five so I might as well hang out & make sure no one else is going to come
'up' with anything this evening.....

It brought back my nightmare where I'm pulled over & the cop asks me for my
registration & proof of insurance and I open the glovebox and.................



Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 & '72 Vista Cruiser

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/lisa.htm


                   \\\\\\|/////
                    \\ - - //
                    ( 0 0 )
      ----oooO--(_)--Oooo---


          .oooO
             (   )    Oooo.
       ----- \  (----(   )--------
               \_)    )  /
                      (_/   
           Hang in there!!

------------------------------

From: Esko Ilola <esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 03:27:24 -0300
Subject: Just testing, erase this message

As I said, this is just a test.

But as you opened this one, I can tell you, that I 
sent a lengthy description of ignitions condensers, 
sprrk boosters etc last friday. Seen it?

- -- 
**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi           *
* X400  G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
* Oldsmobile 98  1964  4D HT                 *
**********************************************

------------------------------

From: Ed Kolar <chalkbd@uconect.net>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 05:42:27 -0300
Subject: 1985 Indy pace car

Dear Sirs,

I have a 1985 Oldsmobile Calais Indy 500 Pace Car and would like to find
out how many of them were produced.  Please reply to the address below.
Thank you,  Ed Kolar   out//

- -- 
Ed Kolar       mailto:chalkbd@uconect.net  
Jeanne Kolar   mailto:jkolar@uconect.net   
Speed kills, therefore Windows 3.xx users should live forever! 
"The ignorant are always skeptical when they are given knowledge!" Go
Win95!

------------------------------

From: Esko Ilola <esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 06:33:48 -0300
Subject: Ignition, theory  tips and tears (long)

In this message I try to give you the knowledge and experiences I have in this 
subject.

First of all, disconnect the battery wire before you start working with any 
electrical 
parts. It's a good idea to disconnect the ground terminal (-) because then you 
have no 
risk of turning your wrench into smelted iron. I have a bad experience in 
causing a short 
circuit with a wrench in the live (+) terminal. The wrench just sticked there 
and started 
to glow. It spoiled my battery and the cable connectors just in 10 seconds.

The mechanical (non HEI) ignition system consists of the following parts:

a) The breaker points.
The breaker points ground the return wire of ignition coil periodically. Each 
time the 
points open (breaking the return circuit), there is a sudden voltage rise in 
the ignition 
coil allowing the spark plugs to operate.

b) The condensator.
The condensator slows down the voltage rise when the breaker contacts open. 
Without a 
condensator the spark would be between the breaker contacts and not in the 
spark plugs. A 
too big capacitor slows down the voltage rise too much causing no spark at 
all. A VERY 
big capacitor causes extra stress on the contacts when they close because of 
the high 
discharge energy.

c) The ignition coil.
The ignition coil is actually a transformer. It transforms the small voltages 
(-300..+300) in it's primary side into the kilovolt-class voltages needed for 
spark 
plugs. The ignition coil has three wires: input, return and high voltage.
- - The input wire is connected to the battery (may have a current limiting 
resistor).
- - The return wire is connected to the breaker contact (may have a resistor).
- - The high voltage output is connected in the center of the distributor.

d) The distributor.
The distributor connects the high voltage from the ignition coil into the 
spark plug that 
has it's turn to operate. Because of the very high voltages, any humidity and 
/ or 
foreign particles (like a pencil marking) inside the distributor can cause a 
malfunction. 
I have applied some silicone inside the distributor
surfaces to keep them dry. Never spary the stuff into the distributor and then 
crank 
immediately. I have done that and that gave my distributor a free fly. Because 
the 
rotating unit inside the distributor does not make a contact with the ignition 
wires, 
there is a little spark inside the distributor too. The drive gas (butane) 
will almost 
certainly lit.....
This is a good practical joke for your 'friend':
Draw some lines inside the distributor especially near the plug wire 
terminals. Use a 
pencil with soft tip (HB). The sparks will jump along with your drawing 
(graphite is a 
good conductor) causing erratic ignition. Very hard to find and cure. The guy 
will almost 
certainly need a new distributor.

e) The plug wires.
The main purpose of the plug wires is to lead the ignition voltage into the 
spark plugs. 
Modern plug wire with resistive conductor will cut the radio interference down 
as well. 
The resistive wires are mechanically sensitive. Pulling them may break the 
'wire' inside. 
I prefer using an ordinary brand with no whatsoever resistors inside. I think 
that the 
good old copper is simply the best and certainly most reliable.

f) The spark plugs.
The spark plugs ignite the gas-air mixture. There is a variety of different 
plugs 
available with or without miracles. I think that it is a better idea to put 
money into a 
good HEI-ignition than to spend it into miracle-plugs.

- -- 
**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi           *
* X400  G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
* Oldsmobile 98  1964  4D HT                 *
**********************************************

------------------------------

From: Cdrpaulson@aol.com
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 09:34:15 -0300
Subject: Re: One more question 

Brad,
The engine in your car has a serial # stamped on it that will match the
sequential portion of your car's serial # (the last several numbers), if your
engine is original.   I can only speak for the big blocks as to the location
of the # on the engine (near the #1 cylinder spark plug).  

You should check the Olds FAQ (frequently asked questions).  I just did for
the first time last night and spent at least an hour perusing a very small
portion of this amazing list of info.  It will certainly contain the info you
are looking for.

Its address is:  http://web.cps.msu.edu/~twomeysh/OLDSFAQ2.HTM#contents 

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 05:56:58 -0300
Subject: Re: 68 cutlass

Brad Baker wrote:
>=20
> At 23:16 09/01/1996 +0000, you wrote:
>=20
> >The 12-bolt count comes from the number of bolts in the inspection cov=
er
> >on the rear of the housing.  These are not the same as the 12-bolt rea=
rs
> >famous on Chevy's.
>=20
> Bill,
> Could this be a posi rear end?I know you dont have much to go on,but an=
y idea?
> thanks for the info...Brad.

Brad,

While the rear end is off the ground to check ratio, turning 1 wheel=20
will turn the other.  If they both turn in the same direction, then that=20
is a posi.  If the turn in opposite directions, then it is not a posi.

Codes on the axle will tell what the axle was built as, but things could=20
have been changed.  The above & previous procedures will tell you what=20
you have now.=20
Bill culp
Decatur, Alabama
- --=20
MZ=90

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 11:17:20 -0300
Subject: Re: Decals (and a $ saving resto-tip)

On Mon, 2 Sep 1996, Jeff Stanish wrote:
> I bought some decal from Jim Osborn reproductions (Not for an olds) but 
> was really impressed with the quality.  
> 
> Anyone else out there purchase any of Osborns stuff?

I've got an Osborn decal in front of me right now, a tuneup spec decal 
that awaits my redoing my redone rad shroud (I'm not happy with the 
results I got 2 years ago). Unfortunately this one looks like it'll last 
as long as the original, which is to say not very. This is siver foil 
paper with black print. The first few times it gets wet or wiped, the 
edges will start to let go. Maybe that's the way the factory ones were 
too, I don't know.  I've had decals from both Cornea and Osborn and 
haven't seen a whole lot of difference.

FWIW, I've seen tuneup decals on '70-'71 cars that appear to be white 
mylar. Wish mine were made of this stuff instead.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 06:13:16 -0300
Subject: Re: Decals (and a $ saving resto-tip)

Jeff Stanish wrote:
> 
> Boy I'm glad to see others with the same complaint I have with Corneas
> stuff. Granted I appreciate the guy for trying BUT I'd pay twice the
> price if it would last 10 times as long.
> 
> I bought some decal from Jim Osborn reproductions (Not for an olds) but
> was really impressed with the quality.
> 
> Anyone else out there purchase any of Osborns stuff?

Jeff,

I have some of Jim Osborne's decals & I like them.  The quality is 
generally good.  I don't know of Corneas decals.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 06:17:19 -0300
Subject: Re: 1966 Hubcaps

Chris Fair wrote:
> 
> Does anyone know what hubcaps they put on 1966 big olds cars with the 15" 
wheel
> option? I put disc brakes on mine and switched up to 15" wheels so my old
> hubcaps didn't fit. I'm using late model stuff now and would like to know 
what
> they originally used.
> 
> Checking Hollanders, I don't see a listing for 15" 1966 olds, just the simple
> 14" and fancy 14" which are available. Hope someone can help with this 
mystery.
> I'm pretty sure 15" wheels were rare on 1966 98's like mine.
> 
> Look forward to your comments
> chris fair
> /.

Chris,

I believe that the industry was into lower is better in 1966 & few cars 
offered 15" wheels then.  you'll probably have to improvise w/later or 
earlier wheel covers.

Possibly some 14" wheels will cover your disc brakes & you might return 
to the correct style if you want.  You'd be wasting a set of 15" tires 
though.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 11:30:24 -0300
Subject: Re: 1976 Cutlass S

On Mon, 2 Sep 1996, Marvin Friesen wrote:
> Just discovered the Oldmobile Mail List today.

Welcome, Marvin!

> If any one has questions about the car, especially trim, options and
> quirks, I may be able to help. After 20 years, I also know the strengths
> and weakness (paint, rust) of the car pretty good.

These were the best-selling model in the US in '76 as I recall. They 
seemed to have a short lifespan for so many being produced. I see far 
more pre-'73 models on the street today. I think they were more 
rust-prone than their predecessors. I had a LeMans from that generation 
that had serious rust problems in the trunk floor and lower doors after 5 
or 6 years. Both my brother and brother-in-law had '76 VC wagons that 
went the same way. Don't think GM's quality control was the best back then.

My memory of it (and presumably them) is of a huge car with some of the 
biggest, heaviest doors ever made. A nice cruiser if the window 
weatherstrip wasn't worn out prematurely as they tended to do. I remember 
getting mine painted in '84 and wanting to replace the window w/s. Got 
the outer lower w/s from the dealer for peanuts (wonder what they would 
go for today? They all tended to separate the rubber from the metal core) 
and after scouring junkyards and finding every '73-'77 window w/s worse 
than mine, found a perfect set on about the 50th and last one I looked at 
which appeared to be a different design and not so prone to wearing out. Not 
much interior room for such a big car. But the '76/'77 CS was a great looker.

Have fun here, Marvin!

Greg Beaulieu       ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca       Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 06:27:50 -0300
Subject: Re: car show adventures

Nick DiGiovanni wrote:
> 
> At 04:37 PM 9/1/96 -0300, you wrote:
> 
> >I saw my first Pinto in a show.  It had only 35000 miles & looked wonderful.
> 
> >Bill Culp
> >Decatur, Alabama
> 
> Hey Bill, a Pinto that looked wonderful?!?  Isn't that an oxymoron ;')
> 
> Nick DiGiovanni
> Port Coquitlam, B.C.
> 1970 4-4-2 - "Snarls Softly and Carries a Big Kick"


Nick,

I guess it was a little small.  Possibly an baby oxymoron.  

I was delighted that someone was showing something that they liked 
instead of the usual Mustang or something that would be traded as soon 
as the newness wore off.  He was very proud of that car.  His type make 
car shows fun. 

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 11:37:53 -0300
Subject: Re: Ram Rod 350 parts.....

On Sun, 1 Sep 1996, Jason P. Labay wrote:
> I have a friend looking for some NOS or reproduction parts for a Ram Rod
> 350. What he needs is the dual snorkel air cleaner, duct hose leading from
> the air cleaner and the intake scoops under the bumper. Any idea where this
> could be purchased? Any idea of a price? He has a dual snorkel air cleaner
> off of a 1983 Z/28 but I don't know if it would be the same or not?  
Thanks....
> 

Karl Sarpolis/Karl's Korner makes these. He will build you a dual snorkel 
air cleaner for a price and has the scoops, hoses, etc available as well. 

708-597-0415, Illinois

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: DELPROPO@EMUVAX.EMICH.EDU
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 11:38:00 -0300
Subject: Engine detailing

On the 70 olds 350, was the the hose that contects to the water pump from the
thermostat housing (bypass hose) painted the engine color? What is original
steel or hose?.

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 06:46:53 -0300
Subject: Re: 1976 Cutlass S

Marvin Friesen wrote:
> 
> Just discovered the Oldmobile Mail List today.
> 
> I own 2 1976 Olds Cutlass S's. The first one I purchased brand new. I am
> the second owner of the second (since 1991).
> 
> I also once bought a 77 Supreme which I parted out.
> 
> I daily drive a 1983 Delta 88.
> 
> I'm wondering if there are any other fans of the 76-77 Cutlass's or am I in
> a world of my own.
> 
> 
> Marvin
> BC, Canada


Marvin,

Welcome to the Olds List.  The cars that you have are the next 
collectibles & so you are in at the top.  I own a 1962 Jetfire, 1967 
Toronado, & a 1968 442.  I once owned a 1973 Cutlass 455 that I 
purchased new & kept 13 years.  It was a very good car that loved a tnk 
of gas.  The cam was changed to a 1970 spec, the carb redone to 1970 
Buick Stage 1 spec, & the distributor recurved.  Gas mileage doubled to 
a wonderful 14-15 mpg on the highway.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 11:55:25 -0300
Subject: Re: 1976 Cutlass S

Welcome to the list. Cant say I own a 76-77, but own (2) 75 H/O's. One is a
parts car. I am parting out a maroon 77 Cutlass.....

At 01:03 AM 9/2/96 -0300, Marvin Friesen wrote:
>Just discovered the Oldmobile Mail List today.
__________________________________________________
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com)
1988 IROC Z/28...............salvage yard special
1980  4-4-2 W-30.............1 of  886       OCA#027572
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25...1 of 2535  H/OCA#0278A
Just what the doctor ordered....those awesome W-Machines.

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 11:58:31 -0300
Subject: Re: Decals (and a $ saving resto-tip)

I purchased some stuff from Osborn for my 75 H/O and was impressed with all
but one item. The tire pressure decal on the inside of the glovebox had a
little off center printing, otherwise ok.


>Anyone else out there purchase any of Osborns stuff?
>
__________________________________________________
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com)
1988 IROC Z/28...............salvage yard special
1980  4-4-2 W-30.............1 of  886       OCA#027572
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25...1 of 2535  H/OCA#0278A
Just what the doctor ordered....those awesome W-Machines.

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 12:12:19 -0300
Subject: Re: car show adventures

Seems like I struck a nerve with some of the things about car shows. Hope 
I didn't offend anyone out there, my point was that the classes need some 
serious thinking so that both original and non-original cars are rewarded 
appropriately.

One last anecdote that shows us that even Olds types are not above 
nefarious behavior. At the show I talked about earlier, the winner of the 
long-distance award was a '71 CS. Nothing remarkable about it, not many 
options, needed a general redo but a good driver. They announed that he 
won the long-distance trophy as he came from Ontario, about 800 miles away.

Well, he did.... some months ago. The guy *lives* here now and works as a 
mechanic at a local garage. You see the car parked there every day. He 
just hasn't bothered to change the plates yet. We thought for a second 
about calling him on it but didn't want to cause a stink. Disappointed us 
that an Olds guy would do such a thing. The things some people will do 
for a trophy...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: sbento@mecn.mass.edu
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 12:34:31 -0300
Subject: Re: 68 cutlass

On the subject of 12 bolts,

The chevy 12 bolt has 12 bolts attaching the ring gear to the carrier, 
whereas the Olds style only has ten. Also the Chevy rear has a 
"scalloped" cover where the Olds is smooth.

If your are trying to check the ratio, you can't use the method described 
below if it is an open differential (non-posi) because the spider gears 
will spin inside the carrier and the other wheel will rotate in the other 
direction while the driveshaft usually won' move.  This is also a way to 
find out if you have a posi.

The easiest way to tell gear ratio on a posi or non posi car is to hoop 
in the car and drive it!!! Record the RPM in high gear and the MPH, try 
to do this on the highyway so you know there is no slippage in the converter.
then measure the diameter of the rear tires and plug it into this formula

tire diameter X .003 X engine RPM 
- ---------------------------------
           MPH

Steve

71 Cutlass S 455
93 Mustang LX 5.0


> > Brad,
> 
> The 12-bolt count comes from the number of bolts in the inspection cover 
> on the rear of the housing.  These are not the same as the 12-bolt rears 
> famous on Chevy's.
> 
> You can find out the axle ratio by jacking up the car (both rear 
> wheels), block the front wheels so that the car won't move, take the car 
> out of gear, mark the driveshaft w/chalk or something visible so that 
> you can see count the turns of the shaft, mark a rear wheel so that you 
> can see a full turn, turn a rear wheel 1 turn & count the number of 
> turns & partial turn of the driveshaft.
> 
> If the driveshaft made 2.5 turns while the wheel turned once, you have a 
> 2.50 rear gear.  If it made 2.75 turns, it is a 2.75 gear etc..
> 
> Bill Culp
> Decatur, Alabama
> 
> 

------------------------------

From: sbento@mecn.mass.edu
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 12:43:52 -0300
Subject: Re: car show adventures

Be Nice!!!

Pinto's are great cars!! I had three of them which got me through college:)

The last one I owned was the best, I installed a turbo intercooled 2.3 
from a Mustang SVO and it ran 15.1's @93.7 mph with 2.73 gears and 13 
inch tires!!!

My Cutlass really liked them too, Cause the Cutlass got to stay in the 
garage while the Pinto's had to deal with these nasty New England winters :)

Steve

71 Cutlass S 455
93 Mustang LX 5.0


On Mon, 2 Sep 1996, Nick DiGiovanni wrote:

> At 04:37 PM 9/1/96 -0300, you wrote:
>       
> >I saw my first Pinto in a show.  It had only 35000 miles & looked wonderful.
> 
> >Bill Culp
> >Decatur, Alabama
> 
> Hey Bill, a Pinto that looked wonderful?!?  Isn't that an oxymoron ;')
> 
> 
> Nick DiGiovanni
> Port Coquitlam, B.C.
> 1970 4-4-2 - "Snarls Softly and Carries a Big Kick"
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

From: kissrulz@gnn.com (Craig Dobbins)
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 08:48:28 -0300
Subject: Parting out - '66 CONVERTABLE CUTLASS 

Hello,
  I was just looking at the Labor Day edition of the Buffalo News.  I 
happened to come across an ad placed by a guy who is parting out a '66 
Cutlass Supreme Convertable.  If anyone is interested in some parts, like 
those hard to find convertable quarter panels, I'd be more than happy to give 
the guy a call and check it out.  I have already cut out the ad, so it would 
be no problem.  And, if anyone has any knowledge of a '68 or '69 Convertable 
442 or Cutlass being parted out, please return the favor, I could use the 
quarter panels for my car.

                                             Happy to help,
                                              Craig Dobbins
                                              Lockport, N.Y.

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 16:40:56 -0300
Subject: Re: 69 Toronado

Jeramy Goble wrote:
> 
> Hey everyone, I got a 69 toronado, and was wondering if anyone has some
> extra fuel system or engine parts.. (Or anything else you need to get 
> rid of...)

Jeramy,

Good to head from you.  Sorry, I don't have any '69 parts but one of 
the other Toro guys can probably help you out.

BTW, the sign up information for the Toro list is NOT located on 
Bryceman's page (sorry, Bill).  It's located at:

            http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/torolist.html

Cheers,

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Brad Baker <bradbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 13:52:03 -0300
Subject: Re: 1966 Hubcaps

At 06:19 09/02/1996 +0000, you wrote:
>I'm the one who posted the local guy with the big binder showing all factory
>'caps for all makes, back to at least '65 (from what I remember, I went in
>looking specifically for '72 & checked on the current price on my '67 D'lux
>wire jobs)  The place is Hubcaps Only (Anaheim CA) Phone- 714/758-0700.  I
>just went & dug this receipt out of my glovebox - out from under all my
>Doors tapes & all  other receipts on the car....old registrations back to
>'72.....spare napkins.....a hairband.....a mysterious short piece of rubber
>hose that probably belongs somewhere on the car - all of which came OUT
>easily but I had to CRAM back in...plus its 11:19 pm PST (hows that for
>Pumpkin Time Brad?)  One of the twins has the flu though - second kid outta
>five so I might as well hang out & make sure no one else is going to come
>'up' with anything this evening.....
>
>It brought back my nightmare where I'm pulled over & the cop asks me for my
>registration & proof of insurance and I open the glovebox and.................
>
>
>
>Lisa Madsen
>
>Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 & '72 Vista Cruiser
>
>Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com
>
>My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/lisa.htm
>
Lisa,
Thanks for your help on the hubcaps.I would like to find the SS wheels for
my softtop but I dont know the difference between the SSI,SSII or SSIII.Any
help here?Your story about the glovebox brings back some very similar
memorys with my friends driving around at night in the '68 Vista Cruiser
that I had back in the late '70s.Great party car!!! In the winter,we use to
strap a case to the roof rack and drive around.Or when You are with your
girl/boy friend and laying down looking out the top window and
doing.....Well got to go!

Brad '68 Fever!

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 16:36:28 -0300
Subject: For Sale

>From the Sunday Tampa Tribune:

	"OLDS 1962 F85 Convertible
	Rare all original collector's
	car in great shape.  Garnet
	red with white power top.  PS,
	PB.  Rebuilt engine.  Good
	straight body.  $7000 (ap-
	praised value) 813-254-1507"

	"CAR sale 1913 Ford, '58 Cadil-
	lac, '58 Olds, '63 Buick, '64 
	Cadillac, '68 Ford.  $2500 and 
	up.  813-536--2232 or 725-4444"

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: kissrulz@gnn.com (Craig Dobbins)
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 10:34:23 -0300
Subject: Problem with '68 442 - Rear end leak 

Hi everybody,
  I have a little problem.  Last night I crawled under my '68 442 to inspect 
the undercarrige.  I noticed that on the passenger side, back by the fuel 
tank (in front of the fuel tank/towards the wheels), there is a residue build 
up on my tailpipe (the part that connects to the straight pipe, loops up, and 
then connects to the exhaust pipe and tips).  It looks very black; I rubbed 
my finger on it and smelled it.  It sort of smells gas-like, but not totally. 
 There is also a lot of residue on one of the fuel lines coming out of the 
tank (rubber - then connected to steel pipe after about 7 inches.  The other 
fuel line is all steel, possibly a fix-up, whatdda ya think?).  I thought it 
was this, but then looked up and saw that it was also on the under side of my 
upper trunk/convertable top well area.  It sort of looked like it was seeping 
in from inside of the trunk, but there's nothing in there to leak something 
like that, besides the convert. top motor, and I don't think it's that.  What 
do you think???  The residue on the pipe itself runs along a good length of 
the underside of the tailpipe that connects to the straight pipe (which then 
loops up and out).  It's quite thick and pasty, so it has to have been there 
for a while.  Any ideas about what this could be from????  Please help, I 
have no idea where it could be coming from, but I will probably replace that 
rubber hose coming out of the tank just to be sure about that.  But, like I 
said, there is also residue on the underside of the upper trunk area, so I'm 
kinda confused about it?  Any help out there????


                                                Thank you all,
                                                 Craig Dobbins.

------------------------------

From: oldsnut@westworld.com (Chuck Noppe)
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 14:39:27 -0300
Subject: Re: One more question 

>Sorry to bother everyone at this late hour(11:00 East coast),but I am not
>sure what NOS stands for.Now dont laugh,,,at one time you didnt know either.
>Also,how do I find out if my car('68 cutlass s convt) has matching and
>original numbers on it? Thanks for the help...Brad.
>
>Wouldnt you rather drive a '68?
>
>Brad NOS stands for new old stock which are origanal parts that wound up in
the dealer stockroom instead of on a car that was produced. As far as
production numbers , if you get a factory set of shop manuals they will
contain the relivent info you need. 

Chuck Noppe Oldsnut @ westworld.com

71 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight LS
71 Cadillac Coupe Deville
72 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight Regency

------------------------------

From: "Marvin Friesen" <gowest@mail.awinc.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 14:56:18 -0300
Subject: 1976 Cutlass S Parts Shopping List

My shopping list:

1) Front signal light lenses (1976 only, 1977 are slightly different).

2) Plastic cover (pref tan) that holds seat belt buckle for bucket seats.
They tend to split at 40 below farenheit.

3) Rear quarter window (teardrop shape) bright window molding (from 73-77
Cutlass, Malibu, Le Mans, Century) 

I've been out of touch with parts suppliers for last five years as I let my
76 Cutlass S's age like a fine wine. 

I thought Jim Osborne reproductions disappeared because of posible
patent/copyright laws. Where can I get a catalogue?

Does anyone else know of any good suppliers of NOS or reproduction parts
for 73-77 Olds Cutlass's.

I've collected a number of diecasts from these years if anyone is
inteested.

------------------------------

From: "Marvin Friesen" <gowest@mail.awinc.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 14:36:15 -0300
Subject: Re: 1976 Cutlass S

> From: Greg Beaulieu 
> Subject: Re: 1976 Cutlass S
> Date: Monday, September 02, 1996 7:30 AM

> My memory of it (and presumably them) is of a huge car with some of the 
> biggest, heaviest doors ever made. A nice cruiser if the window 
> weatherstrip wasn't worn out prematurely as they tended to do. I remember

> getting mine painted in '84 and wanting to replace the window w/s. Got 
> the outer lower w/s from the dealer for peanuts (wonder what they would 
> go for today? They all tended to separate the rubber from the metal core)

> and after scouring junkyards and finding every '73-'77 window w/s worse 
> than mine, found a perfect set on about the 50th and last one I looked at

> which appeared to be a different design and not so prone to wearing out.
Not 
> much interior room for such a big car. But the '76/'77 CS was a great
looker.

Yes, the doors are monsters. The Monte Carlo's were even larger though as
they were built on a 116" wheel base as opposed to a 112". My doors on #1
still swing like new, but I kept them lubed and was very gentle with them.

Car weighs around 4000 lbs, rides nice on the highway.

You have to be very good to the hood too. I've seen many a bent hood
because the hood is so long and the springs are stiff. Lube, lube, lube.

Leaky window rubbers a real problem, whistled even when new. Rubber very
soft, degrade quickly unless you take good care of them. Another problem,
like you say,  is the seal along the bottom of edge of window. Thin hard
rubber encases a steel core that rusts very easily, swelling and destroying
it very prematurely. Cost was $40 CDN new a side in 1983 when I replaced a
set. My #1 car is now garaged and dry so they are still OK. My #2 needs a
pair. Good to hear they may have improved them. Pointless looking for them
in a junk yard.

My experience has been not to waste time on most rusty components; all the
cars
rust exactly the same way at the same time. Try to find a good rear bumper
(mine are fine for the moment). 

Marvin Friesen
Prince Rupert, BC, Canada

------------------------------

From: oldsnut@westworld.com (Chuck Noppe)
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 14:58:13 -0300
Subject: Re: Engine detailing 

>On the 70 olds 350, was the the hose that contects to the water pump from the
>thermostat housing (bypass hose) painted the engine color? What is original
>steel or hose?.
>
If the bypass tube  curved section is made of metal it should be engine
color, if it a curved molded hose it should be left unpainted (despite the
picture in the catalog) I believe that the factory changed to a steel curved
section in 68 as the molded hose was the weak point in the coooling system
Chuck Noppe 

Oldsnut @ westworld.com

71 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight LS
71 Cadillac Coupe Deville
72 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight Regency

------------------------------

From: Gregory M Zimmerman <gzimmerm@runet.edu>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 16:16:57 -0300
Subject: Re: The w-25 Air cleaner

> 
> On the subjet of repo w-25 hoods is the air cleaner .How are these and are 
they
> worth the 450. dollars. I have an orriginal W-25 W-31 Hoo. Currently I use my
> orriginal air cleaner and have made a foam seal that rest in its lip and
> contacts the hood. In the center is a small air cleaner d. Actually it 
looksks
> real good and to someone who does not know what the real one looks like it
> looks like an orriginal item.....thanks  Greg 70 Cutlass
> 
How did you make the foam seal?  I have a factory hood and would also 
like make a stock aircleaner bottom work like you did.

Also, I have the orginal O.A.I. air cleaner bottom and top for sale, it 
needs the small air-lid and foam seal, but all p.c.v./breather hoses are 
there and the vacuum motor still works.

------------------------------

From: "Graham Stewart" <graham.stewart@utoronto.ca>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 17:01:41 -0300
Subject: Re: 1966 Hubcaps

- ----------
> From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@FairIsaac.com>

> Does anyone know what hubcaps they put on 1966 big olds cars with the 15"
wheel
> option? I put disc brakes on mine and switched up to 15" wheels so my old
> hubcaps didn't fit. I'm using late model stuff now and would like to know
what
> they originally used. 
> 
> Checking Hollanders, I don't see a listing for 15" 1966 olds, just the
simple
> 14" and fancy 14" which are available. Hope someone can help with this
mystery.
> I'm pretty sure 15" wheels were rare on 1966 98's like mine. 

Chris:
15 inch wheels were offered on 65 and 66 88s and 98s (part number was
381950).  My Olds parts catalog makes a distinction between "Wheel Disc"
and "Wheel Hub Cap".  Wheel Disc is what we usually think of as hub caps,
and none were offered in the 15 inch size in 1965 or 66.  They start to
show up in the 1967 listings.  However Wheel Hub Caps were offered in these
years (part number was 9701169).  I'm not a wheel option expert, but from
the illustration it looks like they were a combination of a separate item
called a trim ring (only offered with 15 inch wheels, part number 542926)
and the wheel hub cap above.  The trim ring looks like it fits around the
outside of the wheel and has a hole for the vavle stem.  The "Hub Caps" 
look smaller than the "Wheel Discs".  Too bad we don't have instant scan to
e-mail ability, or this picture would make my description more clear. 
Perhaps this was some transitional form to what we think of as normal hub
caps in the first few years of 15 inch wheels?  I'm sure someone else out
there knows more about these details than me.  Anyway, good luck with it!

Graham Stewart
graham.stewart@utoronto.ca

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 19:10:13 -0300
Subject: Re: One more question

On Sun, 1 Sep 1996, Lloyd Culp wrote:

> Brad,
> 
> NOS doesn't stand for New Old Stock, but that is about what it means.  

Hold the phone!  I thought that's EXACTLY what it stood for!  

> This is a part that has never been used, is a factory part, & is 
> probably a little old & shop worn.  This is opposed to a new part that 
> has just been manufactured.

Or a new part that was manufactured in 1952, and has never been used.


I think you're confused.  It IS a NEW part that has never been used 
(obviously) and that was manufactured at about the time the car it is 
intended for was new.  It's probably also still in the original box.  It is 
NOT "old and shopworn."  For example, I once needed new lower ball joints for 
my '64 Jetstar 88.  I obtained from Fusick NOS ball joints.  These were 
brand new, still in their original 1964 packaging from GM (complete with 
the old-fashioned GM logo).  They were 30 years old, but they had done 
nothing more than sit on the shelf for those 30 years.



Dan Gulino

------------------------------

From: Ken <rottin@coil.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 19:39:14 -0300
Subject: RE: Parts available

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB98FE.104CBBC0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

  Is a port-o-sonic the manifold with the single chamber under the carb and 
nearly straight runners to the ports.. (tarantula style?)


- ----------
From: 	Chris Fair[SMTP:ChrisFair@FairIsaac.com]
Sent: 	Monday, September 02, 1996 1:26 AM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Parts available

Cleaning up the garage today and came across the following items I don't need
anymore. If anyone has interest let me know and I'm sure we can work something
out. All items have been stored in doors in my Northern California garage and
cared for as if I might use them again. 

1) 1 Offy Portosonic Holley intake manifold, used for about 2 years until I
put in HEI which does not fit with this manifold. Very good shape, just needs
cleaning. 4 barrel square bore with a few misc. vacuum fittings still on it.
Lightly used ( hey I have a 98, it's not like I can run 12's with 4,500 pounds
of car...)

2) BB Point distributor/wires, fully functional as of when I took it off
probably 6 or so years ago. No up down or unpleasant out or round movement
when I checked it tonight. 

3) 1965 98 2 door sedan rear quarter lower window edge trim. Buffed almost
back to mirror. Hate to throw this away, but will in case of no interest.
These are the pieces with the rubber to keep water out of the rear quarter
where the window goes. 

4) Mallory unilite distributor, new but I miswired it and fried it shortly
after buying it 9 years ago. Now I'm using factory HEI and happy with it. Can
anyone repair and use this unit? The mechanicals are new, but the electrical
bits are not working. At least that's how I remember it. BB Olds distributor.

I'm aiming to get these things into the hands of people who can use them and
do a minimum of shipping. If you can simplify my life and take the lot as a 
whole, price falls.

Hope this helps some of you. Probably best to respond to me directly rather
than through the list. (cfair@fairisaac.com)
cf
.






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------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 20:09:34 -0300
Subject: Re: The w-25 Air cleaner 

In a message dated 96-09-02 15:28:17 EDT, you write:
To Greg Zimmerman


<< Also, I have the orginal O.A.I. air cleaner bottom and top for sale, it 
 needs the small air-lid and foam seal, but all p.c.v./breather hoses are 
 there and the vacuum motor still works.
  >>
Well I can't E-mail you direct so here is my reply 
How much do you want for it.  I really need the 
top only with the missing small air lid and foam
seal but if you need to sell as a whole deal
let me know E-mail or call me collect at
313 336 8135  (Mark Prince)   please call or 
E-mail me ASAP  Thanks 

W MACHINES (Mark Prince)
72 442 W-30 race rocket

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 20:18:38 -0300
Subject: Re: Problem with '68 442 - Rear end leak

Craig,
Replace the rubber hose or hoses and see if it stops. If they've never been 
changed, you should do it anyway.

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 20:22:52 -0300
Subject: Re: W MACHINES (Was:Re: More on my fubar 350 R46SX -Reply) 

In a message dated 96-08-28 12:33:43 EDT, you write:
<<  MACHINES (Mark Prince)
 >72 442 W-30 race rocket  former owner of  70 SX
 >(2) 72 442'S
 >78 Cutlass Supreme
 >(2)  71 Supreme's
 >90 Quad 442 and have still another 72 W-30 4sd with X in the vin 
 Where on earth do you find/afford these cars?  I'd give anything if I could
 just find a '72 W-30 or 442...
 -BS >>

I found one W-30 in North Carolina but it was a wreck, no front end
trashed interior but X in the Vin.  I paid 500.00 for the car and fully
restored it.  The other W-30 I picked up in Temperance MICH. This car
is a original 4sp missing engine and trans but OAI Hood and ralley pac are
there.  The rear end is a 3:42 posi and original. It has a 12 bolt chev under
it now from the previous owner.  The owner did not know what he had and 
I bought the car for 1000.00 six months ago.
the other cars I picked up here in Detroit for cheap prices due to nobody 
new what they had.  The Quad 442 I bought new in 1990 from Bill Rowan
Oldsmobile. The 78 was my grandma's and the 442's came from upper
Michigan with the frames totally rotten and eaten away, but turned into 
good parts cars.

W MACHINES (Mark Prince)
72 442 W-30 race rocket

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 13:43:28 -0300
Subject: Re: 78-87 Guage Cluster circuit board 

     The circuit board trace can be fixed by either careful soldering or 
     (better) conductive paint.  I think Radio Shack sells some of this, or 
     you can use rear-defroster repair paint (same stuff).
     
     My sending unit on the '84 H/O did the same thing shortly after I got 
     it.  Scared the begeebuz outa me when I looked down at a stoplight and 
     saw 2 psi, up to speed was about 20 psi.  Then I looked under the hood 
     and noticed mine was also leaking, so the sending unit was a pretty 
     easy diagnosis.  A new $15 sending unit fixed the problem.


______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: 78-87 Guage Cluster circuit board
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    8/30/96 8:18 PM


     On the rear of my guage cluster is that flat circuit board with fine 
     strips of copper in plastic that run the guages. Well the little 
     strips that connect the oil guage to function are broken and the guage 
     occasionally works and most  times does not. Actually I start with 
     normal oil pressure when the car starts then after I drive it it acts 
     strange. At idle it reads 2-3 psi and under acceleration it reads 
     20-30 psi. Could the sending unit be bad also. 

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 12:09:56 -0300
Subject: Re: Engine detailing

At 11:38 AM 9/2/96 -0300, you wrote:
>On the 70 olds 350, was the the hose that contects to the water pump from the
>thermostat housing (bypass hose) painted the engine color? What is original
>steel or hose?.

I believe originally, a curved rubber hose was used.  But they later changed
it to a curved metal pipe, with a short piece of rubber hose.  I don't know
when they changed to the curved metal hose, though.  I got a new one from
Year One for my '69 with the metal hose.  It says in their catalog that the
ones they have are "New GM" and that "this service replacement part uses a
straight bypass hose (the original curved bypass hose will not work)".  Says
for 71-72 all V-8's, but will fit any Olds V-8 intake (I think).  Don't know
about if it was painted, though...
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 13:43:24 -0300
Subject: Re: car show adventures 

     Quick test to see if you have a 260 or a 350 engine.
     
     1.  Start the car and line up next to a kid on a skateboard.
     2.  Floor it!
     3.  After 100 feet, if the skateboard is ahead you have a 260.  If the 
     skateboarder is eating rocket fumes, you have a 350 :-)
     
     Glad to hear you had such a good time!  I didn't know 80 442's existed 
     either untill you came onboard.
     
     Tom L.


______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: car show adventures
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    8/30/96 8:18 PM


Well I took the 80 442 to the Northern Ohio OCA show and meet some list 
members. I met Dan Gulino, Linda Zuccaro, Jeff Stanish and seen Paul Hartlieb 
but did not meet him. I got some interesting questions about my 80 442. First 
of all when I registered the car I had a hard time convincing the woman 
taking entries that it was not a 79 H/O. After all this she still entered my 
car in the H/O class. Comes to me gettng out my 442 fact book and showing her 
that 80 442's were made. Then I get an unusual question, especially at an all 
Olds meet. This guy asks me..."why did they put the type of oil the car takes 
on the fender (I have W-30 stickers on the front fenders). I just had to 
laugh... Then I hear some guy telling his wife as he is looking at my car, 
"yea the W-30 means it has the Windsor engine" Guess I have a Ford 442? Then 
I get a "know it all" tell me that my car has a 260 in it, he can just tell. 
Well every last number I have run through interchange manuals, etc. off the 
car checks back to a 1980 350. I get out that list and he acted as if I 
killed his best friend, he shuts up and takes his knowledge elsewhere. 
Overall a very fun day though. Mine was the only 80 442 there, many Olds 
people never knew the car existed. Kinda neat to have such a unique car.
__________________________________________________ 
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com)
1988 IROC Z/28...............salvage yard special
1980  4-4-2 W-30.............1 of  886       OCA#027572 
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25...1 of 2535  H/OCA#0278A
Just what the doctor ordered....those awesome W-Machines.
     
     

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 12:09:53 -0300
Subject: Re: 68 cutlass

At 08:16 PM 9/1/96 -0300, you wrote:

>You can find out the axle ratio by jacking up the car (both rear 
>wheels), block the front wheels so that the car won't move, take the car 
>out of gear, mark the driveshaft w/chalk or something visible so that 
>you can see count the turns of the shaft, mark a rear wheel so that you 
>can see a full turn, turn a rear wheel 1 turn & count the number of 
>turns & partial turn of the driveshaft.
>
>If the driveshaft made 2.5 turns while the wheel turned once, you have a 
>2.50 rear gear.  If it made 2.75 turns, it is a 2.75 gear etc..
>
>Bill Culp

You will have to put the transmission in neutral, put the rear up on
jackstands, get under the car, and _turn_the_driveshaft_.  Count the number
of turns of the driveshaft it takes to turn one wheel one time.  If you turn
a wheel (instead of turning the driveshaft) you will only turn the other
wheel (not the driveshaft).  It also works better (more accurate) if you
turn the driveshaft enough times to turn one wheel ten times, and count the
number of times you turn the driveshaft.  This is because it may be
difficult to tell if the driveshaft goes around, say, 2.56 or 2.78 times for
one turn of a tire.  But if you turn the driveshaft enough times to turn a
wheel ten times, you will have 25.6, or 27.8, or 41.1 (or whatever) turns of
the driveshaft.  Then just divide by ten to get the ratio of the rear.  It's
easier to tell the difference between 25.6 and 27.8 turns of the driveshaft
(or 32.3 and 34.2 turns, etc.)  To tell if you have a posi or open carrier,
put the tranny in park, and with the rear end jacked up, turn one tire.  If
the other tire goes in the same direction, it's a posi carrier; if the other
wheel goes in the opposite direction, it's an open (non-posi) carrier.
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 12:18:03 -0300
Subject: Re: One more question

At 07:10 PM 9/2/96 -0300, you wrote:

>I think you're confused.  It IS a NEW part that has never been used 
>(obviously) and that was manufactured at about the time the car it is 
>intended for was new.  It's probably also still in the original box.  It is 
>NOT "old and shopworn."  For example, I once needed new lower ball joints for 
>my '64 Jetstar 88.  I obtained from Fusick NOS ball joints.  These were 
>brand new, still in their original 1964 packaging from GM (complete with 
>the old-fashioned GM logo).  They were 30 years old, but they had done 
>nothing more than sit on the shelf for those 30 years.
>Dan Gulino


AND THE WINNER IS...  Yes, that is correct.  It is a brand new part (NEW),
not used, that was made at approximately the same time the car that it goes
on was made (OLD).  That makes it NEW OLD Stock.  It just sat on a shelf or
in a warehouse somewhere for years.
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 16:01:12 -0300
Subject: Re: One more question

> On Sun, 1 Sep 1996, Lloyd Culp wrote:
> 
> > Brad,
> >
> > NOS doesn't stand for New Old Stock, but that is about what it means.
> 
> Hold the phone!  I thought that's EXACTLY what it stood for!
> 
> > This is a part that has never been used, is a factory part, & is
> > probably a little old & shop worn.  This is opposed to a new part that
> > has just been manufactured.
> 
> Or a new part that was manufactured in 1952, and has never been used.
> 
> I think you're confused.  It IS a NEW part that has never been used
> (obviously) and that was manufactured at about the time the car it is
> intended for was new.  It's probably also still in the original box.  It is
> NOT "old and shopworn."  

> Dan Gulino


Dan,

I once read, & don't know where the piece is as yet, in a respected 
journal that NOS originally meant something like "New Original Supply". 
 I didn't use that term as I am not confident that I have the acronym 
correct.  I jsut remember that it wasn't New Old Stock.

I think that you will find that many parts that are offered as NOS have 
gotten some inconsiderate treatment.  This is even though they may have 
never been used on a car.  "Shop worn" is a phrase that is used many 
times when I have looked at a trim piece w/some scrapes & scratches that 
don't spoil the item, but don't make it perfect either.  Many times, the 
box is in poor condition or even missing.

One instance I have seen where NOS items were collected from a dealer of 
Pontiacs in my town surprised me.  My friend bought all the Old stock 
that the dealer had.  Nearly everything was in the factory boxes.  While 
speaking to one of the older employees, he remarked that many of these 
items were taken off new cars years ago because the customers wanted 
them replaced as they had flaws.  I suspect he was talking about trim.  
I hope that he wasn't talking about mechanical or electrical items. 

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Brad Baker <bradbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 21:31:41 -0300
Subject: Lucky or What?

Am I lucky or are there more than 1 Fusics (spelling?) parts dealer in the
country? There is one here in East Windsor CT.,about a half an hour from my
house.(Really Conn. is so small that everything is about a half an hour from
everywhere!!) I hear people talking about them and was just wondering.Also,
thanks to all for the help on the rearend ratio.Let you know what I find
when I get some time to check.

'68 CS Ragtop (0-0|||||0-0)  Great Looking Grill!!!

------------------------------

From: Brad Baker <bradbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 21:35:55 -0300
Subject: Re: One more question

At 19:01 09/02/1996 +0000, you wrote:
>> On Sun, 1 Sep 1996, Lloyd Culp wrote:
>> 
>> > Brad,
>> >
>> > NOS doesn't stand for New Old Stock, but that is about what it means.
>> 
>> Hold the phone!  I thought that's EXACTLY what it stood for!
>> 
>> > This is a part that has never been used, is a factory part, & is
>> > probably a little old & shop worn.  This is opposed to a new part that
>> > has just been manufactured.
>> 
>> Or a new part that was manufactured in 1952, and has never been used.
>> 
>> I think you're confused.  It IS a NEW part that has never been used
>> (obviously) and that was manufactured at about the time the car it is
>> intended for was new.  It's probably also still in the original box.  It is
>> NOT "old and shopworn."  
>
>> Dan Gulino
>
>
>Dan,
>
>I once read, & don't know where the piece is as yet, in a respected 
>journal that NOS originally meant something like "New Original Supply". 
> I didn't use that term as I am not confident that I have the acronym 
>correct.  I jsut remember that it wasn't New Old Stock.
>
>I think that you will find that many parts that are offered as NOS have 
>gotten some inconsiderate treatment.  This is even though they may have 
>never been used on a car.  "Shop worn" is a phrase that is used many 
>times when I have looked at a trim piece w/some scrapes & scratches that 
>don't spoil the item, but don't make it perfect either.  Many times, the 
>box is in poor condition or even missing.
>
>One instance I have seen where NOS items were collected from a dealer of 
>Pontiacs in my town surprised me.  My friend bought all the Old stock 
>that the dealer had.  Nearly everything was in the factory boxes.  While 
>speaking to one of the older employees, he remarked that many of these 
>items were taken off new cars years ago because the customers wanted 
>them replaced as they had flaws.  I suspect he was talking about trim.  
>I hope that he wasn't talking about mechanical or electrical items. 
>
>Bill Culp
>Decatur, Alabama
>

Gee,sorry I started all confusion and hub-bub about NOS. I thought it stood for
Network Operating System!!! Brad..CNE-3!!

------------------------------

From: Todd Hall <thall@en.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 21:39:54 -0300
Subject: New Toro...Not 

Well, decided to pass on the '66 Toro. Actually never went to look at it
'cause if I had I would have bought it. I just started the resto on the 442
and really can't take on another project right now. Also, my wife just
ordered a new truck (F*rd) which will get the spot in the garage next to the
442, so the Toro would have to sit outside which would just break my heart.
Too bad...a very nice car.

geez, an ya even started a new Toro list!

------------------------------

From: "Marvin Friesen" <gowest@mail.awinc.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 18:08:50 -0300
Subject: 1973-77 Swivel Bucket Seats

Has any body redone a set of Swivel bucket seats? How did they turn out?

7 years ago I had the foresight to purchase original cloth fabric to do the
inserts but could not find the exact vinyl for the sides. The typical
standard reupholstery stock vinyls are too textured and thin. A special
smooth thicker vinyl was used (unlike the material used along the bottom of
the back seat).

The colour I require is Buckskin (Tan). Anyone know where I can find the
vinyl, or have any tips on how to do these seats? Anyone with swivel
buckets knows what a problem they are.

I purchased enough cloth to do 2 complete cars.


1976 Cutlass S (#1 Saddle Metallic)
1976 Cutlass S (#2 Blue)
1983 Delta 88

Marvin
Prince Rupert, BC, Canada

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 21:58:46 -0300
Subject: Re: One more question

On Mon, 2 Sep 1996, Lloyd Culp wrote:

> Dan,
> 
> I once read, & don't know where the piece is as yet, in a respected 
> journal that NOS originally meant something like "New Original Supply". 
>  I didn't use that term as I am not confident that I have the acronym 
> correct.  I jsut remember that it wasn't New Old Stock.

You're probably correct.  It's just that I've seen this question asked 
about two dozen times in various magazines and so forth, and it's always 
been explained as meaning "new old stock."  But now that you mention it, 
I believe I have seen the phrase "new original supply."  Hey, at least 
the "new" part is the same.  :)

> 
> I think that you will find that many parts that are offered as NOS have 
> gotten some inconsiderate treatment.  This is even though they may have 
> never been used on a car.  "Shop worn" is a phrase that is used many 
> times when I have looked at a trim piece w/some scrapes & scratches that 
> don't spoil the item, but don't make it perfect either.  Many times, the 
> box is in poor condition or even missing.

If this is the case, then I would say that the piece is being 
misrepresented if it's being billed as "new old stock."  It doesn't have 
to have the original box, but it can't have scrapes and scratches on it.  
If it does, it's not new.

> 
> One instance I have seen where NOS items were collected from a dealer of 
> Pontiacs in my town surprised me.  My friend bought all the Old stock 
> that the dealer had.  Nearly everything was in the factory boxes.  While 
> speaking to one of the older employees, he remarked that many of these 
> items were taken off new cars years ago because the customers wanted 
> them replaced as they had flaws.  I suspect he was talking about trim.  
> I hope that he wasn't talking about mechanical or electrical items. 

I've seen this sort of thing referred to as a "dealer take-off," which 
implies what you say.  That is, a piece that is nearly new and was 
removed from a new or nearly new car for one reason or another.  I 
consider a piece described this way as being NOS in level of quality, 
assuming it's been properly stored in the interim.



Dan Gulino

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 22:00:18 -0300
Subject: Re: Lucky or What?

On Mon, 2 Sep 1996, Brad Baker wrote:

> Am I lucky or are there more than 1 Fusics (spelling?) parts dealer in the
> country? There is one here in East Windsor CT.,about a half an hour from my
> house.(Really Conn. is so small that everything is about a half an hour from
> everywhere!!) I hear people talking about them and was just wondering.Also,
> thanks to all for the help on the rearend ratio.Let you know what I find
> when I get some time to check.


As far as I know, there is only one Fusick, spelled with a "k" at the end, 
and it's the one you're talking about in East Windsor, Conn.



Dan Gulino

------------------------------

From: CMatt95460@aol.com
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 22:35:59 -0300
Subject: Re: 1973-77 Swivel Bucket Seats 

I have a 1973 Cutlass with swivels.  I had them redone in the original black
vinyl by Bill's Auto and Upholstery in Edgerton, WI.  For $195 per seat, they
turned out awsome!!!

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 17:48:38 -0300
Subject: Re: One more question

Daniel Gulino wrote:
> 
>
> 
> If this is the case, then I would say that the piece is being
> misrepresented if it's being billed as "new old stock."  It doesn't have
> to have the original box, but it can't have scrapes and scratches on it.
> If it does, it's not new.
> 
> >
> > OWhile
> > speaking to one of the older employees, he remarked that many of these
> > items were taken off new cars years ago because the customers wanted
> > them replaced as they had flaws.  
> 
> I've seen this sort of thing referred to as a "dealer take-off," which
> implies what you say.  That is, a piece that is nearly new and was
> removed from a new or nearly new car for one reason or another.  I
> consider a piece described this way as being NOS in level of quality,
> assuming it's been properly stored in the interim.
> 
> Dan Gulino


Dan,

I wasn't intending to disagree w/anyone.  I have just seen some "odd" 
interpretations of NOS.  I feel exactly as you do, that the pieces 
should be "as new", not nice or good or pre-owned, etc.  It is just that 
parts vendors can exaggerate & have been known to be taken themselves.  
Let the buyer beware. 

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama   

PS:  Also beware of NORS - new old replacement stock (not factory 
pieces, but something that has been known to work).

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 23:34:12 -0300
Subject: Re: wheel covers 

In a message dated 96-08-31 18:57:53 EDT, you write:

<< literature vendors who advertise in Hemmings Motor News. >>

Try:

John W Wimble
1407 Stoneycreek Dr
Richmond, Va  23233-4621

His '68 prestige catalog lists for $9.  Prestige means its the deluxe catalog
offered at the dealership as apposed to the smaller version that was handed
out at auto show (or cheap dealers).  Shipping charges vary depending on
where you live, so it would be good to contact John before you order.  I
recommend you request his literature list, as there is a lot of Oldsmobile
material there.  Prices are fair and the condition of the literature is
excellant.  Many items are mint.  I've been a satisfied customer of his for
years, sending him an order every month.  Tell him I sent you.

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 23:34:12 -0300
Subject: Re: wheel covers 

In a message dated 96-08-31 18:57:53 EDT, you write:

<< Excellent info, Paul, you get an "A"! >>

Hey, I try.  Thanks.

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 23:34:13 -0300
Subject: Re: wheel covers 

In a message dated 96-09-01 09:05:01 EDT, you write:

<< But in looking thru my literature to answer 
 Brad's question I see no mention of a SSI for '68, just SSII. Is this 
 just an oversight or were they not offered that year?
  >>

Ya know Greg, I was thinkin' the same thing as I was typing the reply to his
post.  SS wheels are mentioned in the '66 & '67 Product Selling Features
manuals.  SSII wheels only are mentioned in the '68 manual.  I looked to see
if I had a bulletin about late availability (re-introduction) of the SS wheel
and I don't.  I'm guessing the SSII was the logical replacement for the SS
and the SS was dropped.  Someone at Olds probably realized their popularity
and what a giant mistake had been made and they were made available again on
the '69s as SSI (they were not SSIs in '66 & '67 because there was no SSII at
that time for them to be a SSI to - get it?).  Now, here something
interesting.  Did you know that SSII wheels were an option on '68 Delmont 88,
Delta 88 and Delta Custom models?

So now ya know.

Paul
Do I get a gold star this time?

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 23:34:16 -0300
Subject: Re: car show adventures 

In a message dated 96-09-01 20:47:53 EDT, you write:

<< Speaking of fun, I saw my first Pinto in a show.  >>

I wondered when one of these was gonna show up somewhere.  Saw a Maverick
once.  Guess next think ya know it'll be Vegas!

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 23:38:57 -0300
Subject: Re: 1966 Hubcaps 

In a message dated 96-09-02 01:21:16 EDT, you write:

<< Does anyone know what hubcaps they put on 1966 big olds cars with the 15"
wheel
 option? I put disc brakes on mine and switched up to 15" wheels so my old
 hubcaps didn't fit. I'm using late model stuff now and would like to know
what
 they originally used. 
 
 Checking Hollanders, I don't see a listing for 15" 1966 olds, just the
simple
 14" and fancy 14" which are available. Hope someone can help with this
mystery.
 I'm pretty sure 15" wheels were rare on 1966 98's like mine. 
 
 Look forward to your comments
 chris fair
  >>

I have GOT to move these darn sales manuals closer to the computer.  All
night long, up-down, put one away-get one out.  You guys are gonna wear me
out!  Ok, let's see what the '66 manual says about 15" wheels.  I'll be back
in a minute.....

OK.  15" tires & wheels were available as heavy duty equipment in '66.  They
were available as options P28 blackwall or P27 whitewall.  Size was 8.45 x
15" for 98 (except with C60 or C61 air conditioner), Starfire & 88.    These
were available for trailer towing only.  I think wheel covers is this case
were Toronado-like poverty hubcaps with a trim ring.  There was no 15" wheel
cover option for '66.  The disc brake option was not available on the
full-size cars until '67.  This option was not available on '67 98s because
Olds didn't want its 98s running around with dogdish hubcaps and the Toro
wheel discs wouldn't clear the skirts.  15" wheels were a part of the disc
brake option, as were the above mentioned poverty hubcaps & trim rings.  For
'67 there was also a 15" wheel disc option for disc brake cars which was the
optional Toronado wheel disc.  For '68 radial tires became available on all
full size cars and these also required 15" wheels.  Poverty hubcaps & trim
rings were again standard, with a larger deluxe wheel disc as an option.
 This optional disc was not the same as the Toronado disc and would clear the
98 skirts.

Hope this helps you.

Paul
The book man.   

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #287
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