
oldsmobile-digest           Friday, 21 June 1996        Volume 01 : Number 210


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 20:50:30 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Starter problems 

>> ... then try relocating your starter solenoid to the fender well ... 
>
>Is that possible???
          
          Hot Rod periodically (like every other "100 Tips" issue) 
          prints a schematic of how to do this on a GM car with a Ford 
          (gasp!) solienoid.  You still use the stock Delco unit to 
          pull in the Bendix drive, but the firewall mounted unit does 
          the switching.
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 20:52:30 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Rocket Powered Ch*vy... 

          This story was actually cited in the Wall Street Journal in 
          an article about urban myths and how the internet lends them 
          credibility.  WSJ pronounced it a myth.
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 23:06:20 -0300
Subject: Re: Grounds

Andrew C. Green wrote:
> 
> If everything else gets better at the same time, that's not necessarily 
> good since it now means everything else is now grounding through that 
> same little wire. (And to get there, it'll need to go backwards through 
> the dash lighting circuit, etc. Uuuugly.)

Exactly.  If all other problems clear, we still have a open ground 
somewhere.  Unfortunately, those things tend to get ignored since they 
LOOK right ...until we find we've just spun a bearing cause we didn't 
know we were out of oil.    :(


The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Dana and Mary Taylor <dmtaylor@top.monad.net>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 22:18:36 -0300
Subject: You've done it before

I know you guys have answered tons of questions like these before and I 
hope you don't mind my imposing one you all to do it again. I have three 
olds engines. I beleive them all to be 305's. I took these numbers to my 
local Olds dealer but to no avail. I tried an area speed shop but they 
said they had no books to help me. One has the number 3955582 on the area 
behind the water pump. It has 39mi93673 on the little ridge of the left 
cyl head and has the # 8 on the heads. It also does not have the holes 
drilled out for the EGR tubes.
The second one has the number 4790GM 5.0 L G behind the water pump with 
3FY317794 on the Cly head pad. It also has 7A on the heads.
The third has 3161-5A on the pump ledge and 5A on the cyl heads. I can't 
read the pad on the head as the engine is in my car and is a daily 
runner. I would appreceate any help in identifing these engines. I want 
to rebuild one of them for my 84 cutlass supreme and need help in 
choosing the best engine and head combo from the inventory I have. Thanks 
in advance for any help you folks provide.

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 23:21:14 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Starter problems

JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com wrote:
>
> Hot Rod periodically (like every other "100 Tips" issue)
> prints a schematic of how to do this on a GM car with a Ford
> (gasp!) solienoid.  You still use the stock Delco unit to
> pull in the Bendix drive, but the firewall mounted unit does
> the switching.

Yeah, Joe, I understand WHAT they are doing, just don't understand WHY.  
Still seems to me like we're attacking a symptom rather that a problem.  
If anyone can explain what the so-called "heat soak" really is and why a 
remote starter relay fixes it, I'll shut up.

BTW, in the Fords, they are generally using a positive engagement 
starter, not a solenoid actuated starter.  In some BB Forda, they DO use 
the remote relay with a solenoid acutated starter but more for ease of 
assembly than anything else. (same wiring system regardless of 
engine/starter type)

Question: Has anyone successfully used this method WITHOUT replacing the 
starter and/or solenoid at the same time?  That is, starter won't work 
when hot and the remote relay was the ONLY thing done to long-term fix 
the problem?

Still mystified,

The 66 Toro and Mike (the unbeliever)


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: eda@dl.tc.faa.gov
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 20:23:08 -0300
Subject: Re: T-top locks (was 83,84 H/O 85-87 442) 

"Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com> wrote:
> I got an 85 Cutlass Salon in my tow yard with what looks like factory t-top
> locks built into the hatch.

Hmm, maybe they wised up in '85; anyone know if they started putting locks on
the Olds tops?  Or maybe it was a dealer- or factory- option?

Jason, are you parting this car out?  Shipping would probably suck, but...
Would the interior happen to be Red Maple, or whatever it's called?  If so, I
need a couple interior pieces, too.  Let me know.

Ed Atlee			'77 Cutlass Supreme
eda@dl.tc.faa.gov		'84 Hurst/Olds
	R O C K E T	P O W E R E D ! !

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 21:10:14 -0300
Subject: Re: Q-Jet Testimony

I've heard of three ways to seal well plugs.  First is the plug method 
someone else had posted about.  Second is tapping the plug slightly into 
the seat, heating it with a propane torch, and sealing it with wicking 
(Green?) Loctite intended for threads that are already assembled.  Third 
is the omnipotent JB Weld.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 16:42:44 -0300
Subject: Re: New on list, '73 Rally pac problems.

DrkSole@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Hi. I'm new to the list but have an Olds problem and need help.
> I've got a '73 Cutlass Supreme and wanted to replace the idiot lights with a
> '73 rally pack.
>   Any ideas on what's going on? I appreciate your help.
> Thanx.
> DrkSole
> 
> 5.7 73 Cutlass Supreme.

DrkSole:

I changed my light set-up on my new '73 Vista Cruiser to a gauge set-up 
and only had to change a couple of wires at the plug-in.  I had a 
correct plug-in for gauges and compared the color codes on that one with 
my old one.  Two were out of sequence and I changed them.  Senders made 
the complete set-up.  I ran that for 16 years with no trouble.  I would 
guess that a shop manual w/wiring diagram would set you straight if the 
'77 board is okay for your use.

Bill Culp

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 21:14:08 -0300
Subject: RE: PUSH ROD problem

The procedure I talked aboutr yesterday doesn't neccesarily mean removing the intake


- ----------
From: 	Fernando Proietto[SMTP:proietto@dow.on.doe.ca]
Sent: 	Wednesday, June 19, 1996 8:41 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Re: PUSH ROD problem

Is there a way I can check that the lifters are functioning properly, without taking off the intake or am I asking for too much now?
Common guys/gals reach into your bag of tricks and tell me how? And nothing that involves a rabbit.

On a more serious note, what if I use the push rod to try and pump up the lifter by hand. Can that tell me if the HYD lifter is 
working? My oil gauge tell me that at idle all time the oil pressure is approximately 50 psi and when cold it reach near 75 psi. My 
vaccuum is also good, but if a few lifters were bad these wouldn't be good indicators right? I dread the thought that a camlobe has 
worn, hence the extra play.

- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 21:53:56 -0300
Subject: RE: Harland Sharp rockers....

Hmmm, reading my own post - I forgot that 66-67 400s used the "big" =
lifter.
 Are there roller lifters (such as diesel) that will work for these?

I don't know, possibly.
>
Assuming roller lifters fit, are there any other parts or modifications
needed to install them?  Do they use guide plates over the lifter bores =
or
are they the type with extensions down either side of the cam lobe, i.e. =
self
centering?


If your block does not require machining  the there should ber nothing =
else required. Usually when running a roller can it tends to be quite =
large, the you must also check for pushrods contacting other parts such =
as the heads

>>all lifters must be checked for clearance in the lifter bores as older =
part
numbers will require block machining to fit properly.

What do you mean.  Of course the correct lifter diameter must be used.  =
But
are you saying a measurement other than bore size vs. lifter diameter is
needed?  I know some roller lifters require a groove to be machined in =
the
bore so that a projection in the lifter rides in the groove.  This to =
keep
the roller centered over the cam lobe.  I thought that OEM roller =
lifters
centered themselved by using extensions down both sides of the cam lobe.
 I've never seen an Olds engine so worn out that the lifter bores needed
anything.  With the exception of a neglected, rusted block which I would =
pass
on anyway.  Are you talking about any "unusual" measurement?

No what I'm referring to is what they call step roller lifters, these =
are an old design and required the tops of the lifter bores to be =
clearanced to clear the lifter body, otherwise they would bind. Newer =
lifter require no machining what so ever.

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 21:57:06 -0300
Subject: RE: Re[2]: Harland Sharp rockers....

OK, so I order SB F*rd roller rockers with a 1.6 ratio either with the studs
which are the same as the stock Olds thread (which is pretty small) or the
larger thread and drill and tap my heads (makes me more comfortable).  Is
this correct??

As Ed McMann would say "that is correct"

I am still not sure that is all I need.  The Olds is not designed for free
floating rockers a la SBC and SBF.  Don't I also need guide plates of some
kind for the pushrods???
You will need guide plates and custom length pushrods. I wouldn't order SB Ford rockers unless they were a better deal than the Olds ones.


Bob Handren  OCA#7728
'67 W-30 Modified
'70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 22:26:18 -0300
Subject: Re: Q-Jet Testimony 

In a message dated 96-06-20 20:20:54 EDT, you write:

<< Second is tapping the plug slightly into  the seat, heating it with a
propane torch, and sealing it with wicking  (Green?) Loctite intended for
threads that are already assembled.  Third is the omnipotent JB Weld. >>

Thanks Paul,

I will be doing a bit of testing with some of these methods this weekend. 

Greg K.

------------------------------

From: Nick DiGiovanni <ndigiova@direct.ca>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 21:29:05 -0300
Subject: Re: Synthoil trash talk 

At 05:27 PM 6/20/96 -0300, you wrote:
>In a message dated 96-06-20 15:09:39 EDT, you write:
>
><<  Autoclave sterilizers used in hospitals to sterilize 
> > instruments only reach a temperature of 120 C or 248 F for 15 minutes 
> > at 15 psi. >>
>
>
>Such systems use steam under pressure to get the spore forming bacteria.

Not spore forming bacteria, but some spores need the higher temp and
pressure.  99.9% of bacteria themselves would be dead by the 212 F at 3-5
minutes.  And because a spore, even though it is a bit more resilient, is
not actually doing anything but basically dormant. Then it will not consume
any lubricating ingreedients in the oil either.

>I was not talking about synthetic or petroleum based oils, but about castor
>and bean oil for use in race engines as mentioned in the post.

I was talking about the petroleum based oils that was also mentioned in the
post.  I appologize if it sounded as if I was talking about the Bean oil.  I
don't know much about the lubricating properties of the Bean or Peanut oil
but I will tell you that it would be very difficult for anything to survive
in an engine's crankase no matter what oil you use.  

>But, do you remember from your microbiology days how quickly bacteria will
>grow? Cultures can reach maximum concentrations of microbes in only 24-48
>hours. 

Yes, only if the agar dish contains "specific nutrients" in the proper
proportions for a particular microbe.  This is a very bacteria specific step. 

>Assuming bean and castor have sufficient lubricating qualities in the first
>place, after a week at least some of it will have been broken down with ?
>consequences and you now also have bacteria and/or possibly mold and
whatever >else curculating through your lifters, on you cam lobes, clogging
the oil >filter and who knows what else.

...Assuming that there is a one of a kind strain of microbe that has this
particular nutrient need and is at the same time resilient enough to endure
the punishement that an Olds engine will give it :o)

>I still believe using bean or castor oil in your engine, race or otherwise,
is >a _bad_ idea.  And being edible, they probably support the growth of
organisms; >this also is probably not good for an engine.

I respect your beliefs.  I think Paul Kuromoto hit it on the head when he
wrote: "We're not talking about just going down to the corner store and
getting bean oil to fill your crankcase with.  Experiments were done with an
oil designed to be an engine lubricant derived from certain beans."
Nick DiGiovanni
Port Coquitlam, B.C.
1970 4-4-2 - "Snarls Softly and Carries a Big Kick"

------------------------------

From: Nick DiGiovanni <ndigiova@direct.ca>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 21:29:12 -0300
Subject: Toronado GT 

I went to our Oldsmobile Club show here in Vancouver this past Sunday and
there were a lot of nice cars.  I saw this great looking 1970 Toronado GT
(W-34) with the Y-? suspension.  This car is owned by one of our club
members and I didn't even know it.  It is all original except for rechromed
bumpers and a new vinyl roof.  The car looked and sounded great.  This is
the first time I had ever seen one.  I'll try and get some pictures so that
I can send them to Bryce's Page for you Toro guys.
There was also the usuall pack of 4-4-2's, W-30's, W-31's and H/O's from our
club and the Seattle Washington club came up too.  Anybody from that area on
this list?



Nick DiGiovanni
Port Coquitlam, B.C.
1970 4-4-2 - "Snarls Softly and Carries a Big Kick"

------------------------------

From: ne1469@ix.netcom.com (Karl Davlin )
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 22:51:17 -0300
Subject: Tilt, and power

Hey, I just bought rear power window units for $75.  :-)

This same place has a tilt stearing out of a buick.  It'll fit perfect, 
but he wants $100.  Is that a good deal?  The blinker arm and 
everything is perfect.  Non of it is pealing.

                                            Karl

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 18:22:07 -0300
Subject: Re: Tilt, and power

Karl Davlin wrote:
> 
> Hey, I just bought rear power window units for $75.  :-)
> 
> This same place has a tilt stearing out of a buick.  It'll fit perfect,
> but he wants $100.  Is that a good deal?  The blinker arm and
> everything is perfect.  Non of it is pealing.
> 
>                                             KarlKarl:

They get about $25-$50 in Alabama for the tilt.  The turn signal and 
tilt levers are probably wrong for an Olds.  You can use your turn 
signal lever, but you need an Olds tilt lever (they just screw out and 
are the same in any Olds of similar years).

Bill Culp
Decatur, AL

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 23:46:57 -0300
Subject: Re: Did He Drive His Olds to da Moon?? :) 

At 13:54 6.20.96 -0300, you wrote:
>
>Saw this in the .sig of a post in (of all things) ne.food,  where folks
>discuss eateries, etc in the New England area:
>
>
>David Chesler (chesler@shore.net - CURRENT   chesler@world.std.com - SOMETIMES
>     david.chesler@itcambridge.com - WORK    david@absol.com - ALWAYS)
>1985 Olds Delta 88 Royale for sale, down to $800, write for details. 
>   (A/C works! 2dr, at/ps/pb, cass, new w/s, brks, batt, exh; 249k miles)
>                                                              ^^^^
>                                                      A quarter million miles!!
>
my 91 S10 has 110K miles on it so it could be possible...
                        zack

>I guess it's just about broken in now, eh? :)
>
>
>
>Tim Churchill
>-------------
>'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
>'88 Cadillac Brougham, a.k.a. 'Big Blue' -- Olds 307 Powered!!
>'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'
>
>"The difference between a good and bad golf swing is the same as that between
> beautiful and ugly women - a matter of millimetres"
>
>-- Ian Fleming, as said through James Bond in _Goldfinger_
>
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 23:47:51 -0300
Subject: Re: I'm just clueless 

In a message dated 96-06-20 08:02:36 EDT, you write:

> 86 olds Cutlass Calais.

This is probably a Cutlass Salon.  When the Calais (N-body) came out, they
changed the Cutlass Calais name to Cutlass Salon to avoid confusion.  Looks
like it didn't work...

See, Olds had the Cutlass Salon (sport/luxury model) from '73 thru '77.  In
'78 they came out with the downsized model and called the new slant-back
models Cutlass Salon so they had to come up with another name for the
sport/luxury model - Cutlass Calais.  Cutlass Calais was used from '78 to
'84, Salon was used from '78 to '80.  In '85 they came out with the new
N-body and called it Calais, so now they needed another for the sport/luxury
model again.  Salon hadn't been used for a while, so that's what they used.
 Salon was used again from '85 to '87.  In '88 Olds thought that their Calais
would be more recognizable with the popular Cutlass name added to it.
 Cutlass Calais was used from '88 to '91.  It's interesting that the Cutlass
name has been dropped from the Ciera, which will be gone soon anyway.  Also
interesting is that it's replacement is the Cutlass.  Period.  The current
Cutlass Supreme is done after the end of the year and the Cutlass that
replaces the Ciera doesn't use the Supreme suffix.

Everybody understands this, right? :)

Paul  

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 23:47:58 -0300
Subject: Re: Oil of Calais: When is a Cutlass not a Cutlass 

In a message dated 96-06-19 21:53:44 EDT, you write:

>In between 1985 and 1991, Oldsmobile's FWD N-body was called the 'Cutlass
>Calais'.  That was the term used in all the sales literature and on the
>actual
>vehicle sticker.

Uhh, sorry, but that's not entirely correct.  I've worked for an Oldsmobile
dealer since '87.  The '85 thru '87 variety were known simply as Calais.  The
Cutlass name was added to the '88 model and they were known as Cutlass Calais
until '91.  Interestingly, Olds dropped the Calais name and picked up Achieva
because they didn't think people were identifying with Calais.  Wonder who
the heck they thought was going to identify with Achieva???

None of my '85 thru '87 sales literature refers to these cars as Cutlass
Calais.  My sales literature from '88 on does.

Of course, non of this is to be confused with the Calais that Cadillac
offered years ago.

I agree with Andrew, the insurance company computer should pick this up ( I
tried once to slide an IROC Z-28 past them as a Camaro -- it didn't work -
VIN gave me away), but I'd bring this to their attention anyway.

Paul

 

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 23:52:59 -0300
Subject: '73 Rally pac problems!!! 

Just some background info:  Before I drew up the instructions on how to
install factory gauges into a 78-87 G-body, I went to the boneyard, bought a
set of gauges, and plugged them right into the existing connector in my dash.
 And guess what!  All the needles buried themselves and nothing worked.  This
led me to open up a manual and check the wiring diagrams.  So to help out the
rest of you, I drew it up on paper and sent it out!  So the best advice I can
give is get a manual and check the wiring.  It is probably just a matter of
re-arranging the wires in the plug.

Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com

------------------------------

From: Bob Valentine <ravalent@liii.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 00:01:10 -0300
Subject: Re: Changing Differential Fluid

On Thu, 20 Jun 1996, Paul R. K. Kuromoto wrote:

> I had success with a RTV-only gasket on my Chevy 12-bolt...Just make sure 
> to go completely around the bolt holes.

    I'll ditto that.   I couldn't even *GET* a gasket for my Olds 
12-bolt.  RTV Gold has done just fine.

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                    --> ravalent@liii.com  <--
        "Experience varies directly with equipment ruined"

------------------------------

From: glenn connors <gpc442@buffnet.net>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 19:17:20 -0300
Subject: still overheating

Can't figure it out.  I've touched all the obvious bases.  Got the correct
pulleys installed, (7-7/8" crank pulley and 5-5/8")  new water pump, 185
deg. thermostat, 4 core radiator.  Along with that, yes there is a shroud on
it, and a 5 blade clutch fan.   Like clockwork, (can set your watch by it)
overheating occurs within 2 miles at under 3000 rpm (we're only talking
about a 2.72 rear end ratio here).  I hate to mention this but a good
realiable acquaintance of mine told me that when he replaced the head
gaskets on his '72 Olds, (Felpro), he had a bad overheating problem and
ended pulling the heads back off to find that there was water jacket holes
that were die cut but not punched out. I didn't want to hear that but it may
be what I have to do next.  Any suggestions or ideas would be greatly
appreciated.  This block is a 455ci. cut .030 over with 'E' heads.

Glenn
'69 4-4-2
  

    4      4      22222
   44     44          2
  4 4    4 4        22
 44444  44444     22
    4     4      22222

------------------------------

From: glenn connors <gpc442@buffnet.net>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 19:17:32 -0300
Subject: still overheating

Can't figure it out.  I've touched all the obvious bases.  Got the correct
pulleys installed, (7-7/8" crank pulley and 5-5/8")  new water pump, 185
deg. thermostat, 4 core radiator.  Along with that, yes there is a shroud on
it, and a 5 blade clutch fan.   Like clockwork, (can set your watch by it)
overheating occurs within 2 miles at under 3000 rpm (we're only talking
about a 2.72 rear end ratio here).  I hate to mention this but a good
realiable acquaintance of mine told me that when he replaced the head
gaskets on his '72 Olds, (Felpro), he had a bad overheating problem and
ended pulling the heads back off to find that there was water jacket holes
that were die cut but not punched out. I didn't want to hear that but it may
be what I have to do next.  Any suggestions or ideas would be greatly
appreciated.  This block is a 455ci. cut .030 over with 'E' heads.

Glenn
'69 4-4-2
  

    4      4      22222
   44     44          2
  4 4    4 4        22
 44444  44444     22
    4     4      22222

------------------------------

From: Bob Valentine <ravalent@liii.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 00:45:57 -0300
Subject: Re: still overheating

On Thu, 20 Jun 1996, glenn connors wrote:

> Can't figure it out.  I've touched all the obvious bases.  Got the correct
> pulleys installed, (7-7/8" crank pulley and 5-5/8")  new water pump, 185
> deg. thermostat, 4 core radiator.  Along with that, yes there is a shroud on
> it, and a 5 blade clutch fan.   Like clockwork, (can set your watch by it)
> overheating occurs within 2 miles at under 3000 rpm (we're only talking
> about a 2.72 rear end ratio here).  I hate to mention this but a good

    Assuming the radiator is clean and free-flowing, I'd check the 
ignition timing.  I've seen overadvanced ignition curves run fine at 
idle/low speed and overheat at high speeds.   

> Glenn
> '69 4-4-2

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                    --> ravalent@liii.com  <--
        "Experience varies directly with equipment ruined"

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 00:50:24 -0300
Subject: bumper question reply 

I while back I got a question on front bumpers for a '71 - '72 Cutlass from JC 
Whitney.  Heres the answer:

Catalog no. 589C
page 66
exc 442 94NY2826NF $369.95
442	94NY2827AF $369.95

Roger Borlase
http://www.microdata.com/rborlase/borlase.html

------------------------------

From: idaholc@primenet.com (Bill Goodnight)
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 00:58:31 -0300
Subject: Re: TV on PBS 

At 11:54 AM 6/20/96 -0300, oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca wrote:
>In a message dated 96-06-20 10:01:59 EDT, you write:
>
><<  Bill Harrison of San Jose had just put a Nova clip on a 49 Coupe >>
>
>
>Oh no! The Olds will start an organ transplant rejection any minute!
>
>Actually, I think the Olds immune system will tolerate the clip.  It is
actually an Omega clip.  I should be more accurate to prevent medical alerts!
>
>Bill Goodnight
>Boise, Idaho
>Idaholc@primenet.com
>
>

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 17:42:00 -0300
Subject: Re: Toronado GT 

     Sort of, I'm in Spokane.  I'm going to try my best to make it up to 
     the All Olds Weekend that they're having up by Banff in September.  
     Will I see you there?
     
     Tom L.

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Toronado GT
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    6/20/96 7:41 PM


There was also the usuall pack of 4-4-2's, W-30's, W-31's and H/O's from our 
club and the Seattle Washington club came up too.  Anybody from that area on 
this list?

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 17:42:04 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Oil of Calais: When is a Cutlass not a Cutlass 

     And now, just so that we're all completely confused, the '84 Cutlass 
     Calais was the sporty (like the Salon) version of the rear-wheel drive 
     '84 Cutlass.  According to my sales literature, an '84 H/O is a 
     Cutlass Calais with option package W-40.
     
     Ain't GM fun?

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Oil of Calais: When is a Cutlass not a Cutlass
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    6/20/96 8:11 PM

     
     Uhh, sorry, but that's not entirely correct.  I've worked for an 
     Oldsmobile dealer since '87.  The '85 thru '87 variety were known 
     simply as Calais.  The 

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 17:41:56 -0300
Subject: Computer Codes, plus *YES!* (long) 

     Yes, yes, yes!  I _finally_ got it fixed!  Since last November my '84 
     H/O has had a stumble or hesitation when I take off from idle.  
     Sometimes I had to pump the pedal a few times 'cause it felt like it 
     would die (never did though).  My first thought was accelerator pump, 
     but a quick visual inspection showed the accelerator pump to be 
     squirting out a nice healthy spurt of gas.  Hmm...  Then I turned to 
     the float level, perhaps if it was too low that would cause a 
     hesitation since it'd take extra time for the gas to get sucked up the 
     primaries by the venturi vacuum.  I didn't want to take the carb apart 
     to check, so it got put on the back burner.  Recently I found some 
     nifty little dipstick ruler type things that you drop down the vent 
     tube to check the float level externally.  $15 at napa for a lousy 
     piece of plastic, but worth it if I don't have to take the carb apart. 
      Float level was right on, perhaps 1/64-1/32nd low, but the manual 
     says 1/16" tolerance.  I was baffled!
     
     Since this is my first car with computer controls, I decided to learn 
     a bit more about them and bought a book on carburetors that covers all 
     the computer controls too.  It mentioned that the Throttle Position 
     Sensor, if misadjusted, would cause symptoms like a bad accelerator 
     pump.  Aha!  Got out the voltmeter and adjusted that puppy, and tada, 
     good as new!  Comes out of the hole like a rocket (pun intended), and 
     barks the tires.
     
     Now, on to the other part of the post, closely related:
     
     Someone asked about codes 12, 21, and 24 on their H/O.  12 is normal, 
     meaning no signal from tach (duh, because the engine isn't running).  
     Code 21 is throttle position sensor (TPS) voltage high, and code 24 is 
     Vehicle speed sensor.
     
     My haynes manual says for code 21 to Check for a sticking or 
     misadjusted TPS plunger.  Check all wiring and connections between the 
     TPS and the ECM.  Adjust or replace the TPS.
     
     For code 24:  A fault in this circuit should be indicated only when 
     the vehicle is in motion.  Disregard Code 24 if it is set when the 
     drive wheels are not turning.  Check the connections at the ECM, Check 
     the TPS setting.
     
     Note that last part, they're probably related!  To see if the code 
     comes back when the vehicle isn't moving, dump the codes by 
     disconnecting the battery or ECM fuse for 30 seconds or so and then 
     start the car but don't move it.  See if the light comes on again.
     
     And now, for a lesson on the TPS, what it does, and how to fix it.  
     The TPS is a variable resistor (rheostat) in the carb moved by the 
     throttle.  You put 5v in, and it gives out from less than 1v (idle) to 
     about 5v (WOT) so the computer can tell where the throttle is.  To 
     adjust it you need a digital voltmeter and some jumper wires.
     
     Shut off engine and remove air cleaner.  The TPS plug is on the front 
     drivers side of the carb, is has three wires going into it.  Unplug it 
     and note on the plug which wires are labeled A, B and C.  Place your 
     three jumper wires (I used the kind with little teeny aligator clips 
     on the end from Radio Shack) from the plug to the socket (I stuck a 
     couple of small nails in the socket to hook the clips to) in the 
     correct order.  Put your digital voltmeter on terminals B and C (this 
     is why you have to use the jumper wires, you can't get at them to get 
     a volt reading otherwise).
     
     Turn the car on, but don't start it.  Check your volt reading.  It's 
     supposed to be 0.48 volts at idle.  Move the throttle and check that 
     the voltage increases steadily (more or less) until it's about 4-5v at 
     WOT.  If it's not about 0.48 volts (mine was 0.75), then you need to 
     adjust it with the adjusting screw.  If it doesn't go smoothly, then 
     you probably need a new TPS sensor.  Replacing it is beyond my 
     knowledge, and involves tearing into the carb.
     
     Right behind the hinge (fulcrum?) where the accelerator pump lever is 
     on the top front driver side corner you'll see a small (1/4", maybe 
     less) plug facing the drivers side.  The adjusting screw is under 
     that.  Drill a small hole in it (don't drill too far!), put a small 
     screw in the hole, and pry it out with the screwhead.  Mine just 
     popped out when I started drilling, guess I got lucky.
     
     The manual says to adjust it with a really small screwdriver, but mine 
     was a hex head inside, not slotted.  I found a small tube (actually 
     the empty metal ink tube from a ballpoint pen) and used needlenose 
     pliers to make it more or less square, which fit over the adjusting 
     screw and turned it quite nicely.
     
     Turn the key back to on (make sure all your jumper connections are 
     still there) and adjust the screw to get 0.48 volts.  When you think 
     you have it, move the throttle open and closed a few times to see if 
     it goes back to about 0.48 volts.
     
     Plug everything back in, and you're off!  It's really pretty easy, 
     getting the jumper wires rigged up was the hardest part.  I suppose I 
     should try to find a replacement for that plug I drilled out. . .
     
     Happy H/Oing!
     
     Tom L.

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 00:38:36 -0300
Subject: RE: still overheating 

>I hate to mention this but a goodrealiable acquaintance of mine told me that 
>when he replaced the head gaskets on his '72 Olds, (Felpro), he had a bad 
>overheating problem and ended pulling the heads back off to find that there 
>was water jacket holes that were die cut but not punched out. 

Was his a 350?  I had a valve job done on my '72 350 and seems 
to be running hot lately, but not overheating.  The thing sounds like a diesel 
when revving it just a little after a small drive.  Any ideas on this?  The 
water pump was replaced in March.  The valve job was done in August of '94.
I'm also using premium gas.

Roger Borlase
'72 Cutlass Wagon
http://www.microdata.com/rborlase

------------------------------

From: DrkSole@aol.com
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 01:16:46 -0300
Subject: Re: Did He Drive His Olds to da Moon?? :) 

In a message dated 96-06-20 13:01:45 EDT, you write:

>Subj:	Did He Drive His Olds to da Moon?? :)
>Date:	96-06-20 13:01:45 EDT
>From:	tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com (Timothy A. Churchill)
>Sender:	oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>Reply-to:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>To:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>
>
>Saw this in the .sig of a post in (of all things) ne.food,  where folks
>discuss eateries, etc in the New England area:
>
>
>David Chesler (chesler@shore.net - CURRENT   chesler@world.std.com -
>SOMETIMES
>     david.chesler@itcambridge.com - WORK    david@absol.com - ALWAYS)
>1985 Olds Delta 88 Royale for sale, down to $800, write for details. 
>   (A/C works! 2dr, at/ps/pb, cass, new w/s, brks, batt, exh; 249k miles)
>                                                              ^^^^
>                                                      A quarter million
>miles!!
>
>I guess it's just about broken in now, eh? :)
>
>
>

Should say so.  My cousin has an 86 Cutlass Ciera with 270k that is just now
in need of its first engine rebuild.
DrkSole

73 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 03:04:57 -0300
Subject: Re: You've done it before 

In a message dated 96-06-20 19:20:51 EDT, you write:

> I know you guys have answered tons of questions like these before and I 
>  hope you don't mind my imposing one you all to do it again. I have three 
>  olds engines. I beleive them all to be 305's. I took these numbers to my 
>  local Olds dealer but to no avail. I tried an area speed shop but they 

Well, I can tell you that they are not 305's (Olds didn't make 305's); they
are probably 307's or 350's.

The Mondello tech guide would be the source for that info (how many pages is
that baby, anyway?). Chris W. would be able to best "interpret" these numbers
you give, as he probably has a half-dozen of *each* of these motors hanging
around...   ;)

>  said they had no books to help me. One has the number 3955582 on the area 
>  behind the water pump. It has 39mi93673 on the little ridge of the left 
>  cyl head and has the # 8 on the heads. It also does not have the holes 
>  drilled out for the EGR tubes.

I think that the #8 heads are from the 1973-1976 low-compression 350 motor,
so I'd say this is an early smogger 350. 

>  The second one has the number 4790GM 5.0 L G behind the water pump with 
>  3FY317794 on the Cly head pad. It also has 7A on the heads.
>  The third has 3161-5A on the pump ledge and 5A on the cyl heads. I can't 

These would in all likelihood be 307's- that second one an '85 or later, and
the third one prior to '85.

>  read the pad on the head as the engine is in my car and is a daily 
>  runner. I would appreceate any help in identifing these engines. I want 
>  to rebuild one of them for my 84 cutlass supreme and need help in 
>  choosing the best engine and head combo from the inventory I have. Thanks 
>  in advance for any help you folks provide.

Well, obviously the 350 (if indeed the block is a 350, and not just a 307
with 350 heads) would be the best starting point, from a performance
standpoint. From an emissions standpoint, the last motor with the 5A heads
would be closest to an original engine. That 7A headed-unit might have the
roller-lifters; interesting, but not very useful for performance. Either the
5A or 7A heads would increase compression on the 350 block, but their ports
are significantly smaller, so overall performance might decrease (though they
might make a great mpg motor, with a useable power band of 250-2500rpm...  ;)

Good luck, and let us know how it turns out!

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 07:54:17 -0300
Subject: Re: T-Top & Engine blews, err blues, 

>Bill Gochenour wrote:
>> 
>>  Currently, the
>> > front peg locks in place, and the rear one just kinda hangs out where ever
>> > it feels the most comfortable.  Usually ~not~ where it's supposed to be!
>> >      Any clues/suggestions?  Does GM carry the gears?  
>> >
>> >       Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
>> >      
>> >              Got the same problem on my 83 Hurst/Olds with the
passenger side, the
>> damm car only has 9000 org. miles on it. The entire internal gear mech is
>>  available from the dealer about $50 bucks for mine. The only thing
>> stoppping me is the fact that its going to happen again !. Monte's/Grand
>> Prix/Regal/Cutlass all use the same mechs.
>> 
>> Keep us posted !
>> --
>> Bill!                                      
>>                                            
>> I bought a 1987 Mustang GT with T-tops and they are working just fine 
>even though my hot rod daughter has put 102,000 fast miles on the thing. 
> Maybe they are similar and have a part that is sturdier.  They have 
>locks and latches on them.

     GACK!!!  Ford having something that works better than Olds?!@@$#@!#!@!@?
I mean besides excuses....  WOW, is that possible?
     
     Been having fun in the Gran Sport, at least...  Been putting that "Have
you beaten a Ford... lately" part to good use, anyway!!!
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 07:54:20 -0300
Subject: Re: probly 

>ok, this porbably wont be too popular with the "purists"out there, but i
>must ask it...i have recently come into ownership of a 69 El Camino...is
>there a way to put a Cutlass front end on, as this was the same platform as
>the Chevelle?  dont worry it will probably get the 442 treatment and have
>Full olds markings on it...

          Can you say...  BONDO?

     I like it, tho...

    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 07:54:14 -0300
Subject: Re: 83-84 H/O parts 

>Hi All,
>
>        Saw an ad for 83-84 hurst olds repo fairings, hood scoop, air dam,
>and spoiler.  If I remember some of you are looking for these parts...
     Um.... Was that REPO or REPRO?  Just wonderring!!!
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 08:31:55 -0300
Subject: Speaking of Old Names in the GM Line-up (Re: Oil of Calais)

> Interestingly, Olds dropped the Calais name and picked up Achieva
> because they didn't think people were identifying with Calais.  Wonder who
> the heck they thought was going to identify with Achieva???


Yet another interesting tidbit about the Calais nameplate:

Several years ago, I stopped to see a Cadillac 2 door parked on the side o'
the road with a 'For Sale' sign on it.  Naturally, seeing the 2 doors, 
methought it a Coupe De Ville.  Well, to my surprise, it was called a Calais.

According to the owner, this '67 Caddy was a 'lower' trim level available
for the 2 door body style.  'Coupe De Boat' appeared nowhere on the body.

This is sort of in the vein of the thread a couple of weeks ago about how
model names moved to different platforms in the GM lineup.

Talk about folks having trouble identifying with a nameplate!! :)



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'88 Cadillac Brougham, a.k.a. 'Big Blue' -- Olds 307 Powered!!
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 08:36:51 -0300
Subject: Re: Oil of Calais: When is a Cutlass not a Cutlass

> Of course, non of this is to be confused with the Calais that Cadillac
> offered years ago.

Sorry Paul, I soulda read a few more lines before deciding to post about
the Caddy Calais...

(Tim slaps his forehead and yells "D'oh!!" in his best Homer Simpson voice :) )



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'88 Cadillac Brougham, a.k.a. 'Big Blue' -- Olds 307 Powered!!
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 09:44:56 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: TV on PBS 

In a message dated 96-06-20 10:01:59 EDT, you write:
          
<<  Bill Harrison of San Jose had just put a Nova clip on a 49 Coupe >>
          
          
Oh no! The Olds will start an organ transplant rejection any minute!
          
          Just tell the car that the front clip is from an Omega!
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 10:23:29 -0300
Subject: Re[4]: Starter problems 

JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com wrote:
>
> Hot Rod periodically (like every other "100 Tips" issue)
> prints a schematic of how to do this on a GM car with a Ford 
> (gasp!) solienoid.  You still use the stock Delco unit to
> pull in the Bendix drive, but the firewall mounted unit does 
> the switching.
          
Yeah, Joe, I understand WHAT they are doing, just don't understand WHY.  
Still seems to me like we're attacking a symptom rather that a problem.  
If anyone can explain what the so-called "heat soak" really is and why a 
remote starter relay fixes it, I'll shut up.

        I didn't mean to promote the HRM solution, just to answer the 
        question as to whether or not it could be done.  BTW, I tend to 
        agree with you Mike, I think this remote solenoid solution covers 
        up the symptom, not the problem.  I believe, however, that it is 
        related to the excessive heat increasing the resistance in the 
        coil windings in the solenoid.  Keep in mind that the GM starters 
        work by using the same solenoid which pulls in the Bendix drive 
        to also activate the "relay" which switches the high current 
        battery lines to the main starter windings.  In reality, this is 
        a copper disc on the opposite end of the solenoid armature which 
        is forced into contact with the terminals on the plastic end cap 
        of the solenoid.  I'm guessing that the heat-induced higher 
        resistance causes the solenoid to have ever-so-slightly less 
        force, and thus the armature moves correspondingly slightly less. 
        This, in turn, results in a less-positive contact between the 
        copper disc and the terminals, resulting in less current flow to 
        the motor windings (and that awful clicking sound).  This effect 
        is compounded by the fact that the copper disc and terminals tend 
        to get damaged over time due to the natural arcing which takes 
        place when the contact is made or broken.  Note that it doesn't 
        take a lot of resistance on your battery terminals to inhibit 
        starting.
        
        (Low-buck side note:  a cheap way to "rebuild" your solenoid when 
        it's late at night and Trak Auto is closed is to remove the end 
        cap - two screws - and pull out the copper disc.  It is held to 
        the shaft with a c-clip.  Flip the disc over and reinstall for a 
        fresh contact surface.  File down the terminals inside the end 
        cap and reassemble.  Good as new!)
        
        Using the remote relay (it's not really a solenoid) takes this 
        switching function away from the high-heat area and the resulting 
        increase in resistance.  The solenoid on the starter will still 
        move enough to engage the Bendix and now doesn't have to perform 
        the switching function.
        
        I must admit, I have not used this method so far.  I have had the 
        problem (headers, brand new high compression 455, etc) and solved 
        it by having a custom-wound high-torque starter built.  Oh, I 
        also had dual batteries mounted in the trunk. :-)  Seriously, I 
        fail to see how the vaunted heat shield helps this problem.  It 
        would seem to me that as you drive, the heat will still soak into 
        the starter eventually and it will reach an equilibrium 
        temperature.  At best, the heat shield will only delay this 
        problem (and that may be enough if your use is only short trips), 
        but soomer or later, the starter will heat up.  In fact, it would 
        seem to me that once the starter heated up the heat shield would 
        extend the time required for it to cool off.  Obviously the 
        thermal environment of the starter is not quasi-static, and 
        things like airflow around the starter will have an effect, but I 
        think to the first order you have to assume that the starter will 
        get hot.
        
        Joe Padavano
        jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
        
        66 442
        68 W-30
        69 H/O
        70 W-30
          

------------------------------

From: clark@sh28.dseg.ti.com (Pat Clark 952-3776)
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 09:39:09 -0300
Subject: Re: olds articles

> I am primarily interested in the s/s wagon, so if you could xerox that article,
> I'd appreciate it.
> 
> My address is:
> Roger Borlase


Roger, made the copies and added a few extra articles. All are on wagons. They
are a 68 Buick wagon w/ 850 hp, a 69 V.C. W-30, and a 62 Jetfire wagon. Do you
care if I fold these to fit in a regular envelope or would you perfer them 
unfolded? Also, came across and copied an article on the 93 achieva SCX. I 
thought somebody here had one of these. Let me know and I could fax it over.


 				Pat Clark
    				 69 442
    			        400/TH400
    			  clark@abu.dseg.ti.com

     The careful application of terror is also a form of communication.

------------------------------

From: Dana and Mary Taylor <dmtaylor@top.monad.net>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 11:55:40 -0300
Subject: Re: You've done it before

Bob0Barry@aol.com wrote:
> 
> 
> Well, I can tell you that they are not 305's (Olds didn't make 305's); they
> are probably 307's or 350's.

 Yes, they would be 307's. I knew that and as soon as I sent the mesg I 
realized my mistake. Also I speak of the pad on the head but I also know 
that the pad is on the block. I am sure someone will catch that typo 
also.
>

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 05:30:04 -0300
Subject: Re: Computer Codes, plus *YES!* (long)

Tom Lentz wrote:
> 
>      Yes, yes, yes!  I _finally_ got it fixed! 
> 
>      Since this is my first car with computer controls, I decided to learn
>      a bit more about them and bought a book on carburetors that covers all
>      the computer controls too.  
> 
>      Happy H/Oing!
> 
>      Tom L.

Tom:

Nice explanation.  Of course, I saved it for my file.  I believe I could 
do that.  Will anyone loan me an H/O for a few years while I get the 
hang of it.  BTW a gas card needs to come with it for a full test over 
that time.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 05:40:20 -0300
Subject: Re: T-Top & Engine blews, err blues,

buehner wrote:
> 
> >
> 
>      Been having fun in the Gran Sport, at least...  Been putting that "Have
> you beaten a Ford... lately" part to good use, anyway!!!
> 
>       
>       

Charlie:

My daughter with the GT Mustang loves to go fast on the street, but when 
the opponent does get a little tough she borrows the GS or the 442.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 05:53:10 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[4]: Starter problems

JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com wrote:
> 
>   I believe, however, that it is
>         related to the excessive heat increasing the resistance in the
>         coil windings in the solenoid.   I have had the
>         problem (headers, brand new high compression 455, etc)   Seriously, I
>         fail to see how the vaunted heat shield helps this problem.  It
>         would seem to me that as you drive, the heat will still soak into
>         the starter eventually and it will reach an equilibrium
>         temperature.  
> Joe:

I never put a shield on my '73 455 Cutlass W/headers.  I had all sorts 
of solenoid problems and just went about changing solenoids annually.  
The starter stayed reliable.  I felt that the the shield would only 
delay the inevitable (although high heat spikes might be avoided), 
restrict air flow for cooling, and make that starter/solenoid change 
that much worse with the headers.

I finally solved the problem with throwing away the haders and replacing 
the exhaust manifolds. ;)

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: "Shawn M. Twomey" <stwom@ctp.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 11:11:36 -0300
Subject: 442 paint vs. Monte paint 

>Hopefully the 442's were built in a different plant than my car (Arlington Tx) 
>and maybe got a better coat of paint.

Don't know about earlier than '83, but '83-'84 Hurst/Olds were assembled in
Lansing, while in '85 the 442s switched down to Texas.

__________________________________________________________________________
Shawn M. Twomey     |  "No!  Try NOT!  Do, or do not.  There is no try."
stwom@ctp.com       |  -Yoda
__________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 12:41:34 -0300
Subject: Starter?

When I go to start my car...

I turn the key.  At first, nothing happens, but I keep it turned.
Then, it goes... err..err..ERR..ERR..CLACK..Whirrr.  Then, I do it
again and it starts.

Anybody have a clue?

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-5450    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 15:47:50 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[4]: Starter problems

JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com wrote:
> 
> I believe, however, that it is related to the excessive heat increasing 
> the resistance in the coil windings in the solenoid.  

Could be but it sounds more like a mechanical problem rather than an 
electric one.  I think I'll measure a spare starter and solenoid then 
bake it in the oven for a bit and measure it again.  We'll see...

Another Low-buck side note:

While in Germany in the early 70s with my first Toro, the starter quit.  
Not easy to find there, ordering from the States took years, and I 
needed wheels.  So I took the sucker apart.  The brushes had worn down to 
their mounting screws, the screws got filed down by the starter 
commutator, the filings shorted the commutator so the starter wouldn't 
work.  Cleaned the gaps in the commutator with a scribe, reversed the 
brushes in their mounting, and replace the screws.  It was still working 
fine when I sold it 2 years later.


> Using the remote relay (it's not really a solenoid) ...

Exactly.

> ...takes this switching function away from the high-heat area and the 
> resulting increase in resistance.  The solenoid on the starter will 
> still move enough to engage the Bendix and now doesn't have to perform
> the switching function.

Could be.  Still sound like crappy solenoids though.

> Seriously, I fail to see how the vaunted heat shield helps this 
> problem.  It would seem to me that as you drive, the heat will still 
> soak into the starter eventually and it will reach an equilibrium
> temperature.  

Agreed.

Will report on the Bake-Off.


The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 16:11:10 -0300
Subject: Re: Starter?

Robert Lawrence wrote:
> 
> I turn the key.  At first, nothing happens, but I keep it turned.
> Then, it goes... err..err..ERR..ERR..CLACK..Whirrr.  Then, I do it
> again and it starts.

Sounds like a bad/loose connection somewhere.  When you first try, the 
connection is poor however the current will generate some heat at that 
point and may "clean" the connection.  Also magnetic attraction will tend 
to pull the connection together.  Check battery terminals, starter & 
solenoid connections (watch out heat soak doesn't get you!), block ground 
strap, etc.  Could also be a goofy starter/solenoid but I'd do the 
obvious (and cheaper) first.

Related example:  Speaker in car barely works.  Turn the volume way up 
and it begins working normally.  Turn it back down and it's OK.
...until the next time. 


The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 16:21:11 -0300
Subject: Act of Congress

FROM THE EDISON3 NEWSROOM IN TAMPA:

Congress has declared June "National Starter, Solenoid, and Ground 
Problem Month".  Bill "Heat Soak" Clinton will be laying a wreath (on the 
ground, of course) at the Tomb of the Unknown Solenoid on Sunday.

Presidential candidate Bob Dole was expected to attend but unfortunately 
his car won't start.  Republicans are charging Hillary Clinton with 
pouring something called "whitewater" in his tank.

All are requested to participate by flying their heat shields at half 
mast this weekend.


The 66 Toro and Mike    ;) 


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 16:00:00 -0300
Subject: Heat Soak Defined!

Forwarded from an unnamed source:

> heat soak (heet sok~) adj. -- A catchall, nebulous term used by people 
> to describe unknown, or enigmatic dynamics of electricity relative to 
> load and resistance through a copper wire when turning a key to start 
> an Oldsmobile.                             ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike



- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 13:31:18 -0300
Subject: 403 solved

Well, the 403 car went away yesterday... had some oil smoke from the scored
cylinder, as expected, but a lot of whitish smoke as she pulled away, from one
tailpipe only, same side that had the cracked head before, different heads
now... hope the block was not cracked too...

running problem: I had set timing at 20 deg or so with vacuum connected... not
supposed to do that. So, jeez, it's like 20-22 degrees at 1100 r's, PLUS more
from vacuum?  Sheesh. Runs OK now, anyhow..... Sure looks good too, in Gold [he
asked for it]...
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: Lucas Frick <frick@macrochip.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 13:38:00 -0300
Subject: RE: Re[4]: Starter problems

- ----------
From:  JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com[SMTP:JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com]
Sent:  Friday, June 21, 1996 8:23 AM
To:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject:  Re[4]: Starter problems

JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com wrote:
>
> Hot Rod periodically (like every other "100 Tips" issue)
> prints a schematic of how to do this on a GM car with a Ford=20
> (gasp!) solienoid.  You still use the stock Delco unit to
> pull in the Bendix drive, but the firewall mounted unit does=20
> the switching. =20

I would like to try this out - would much rather pay $12 for a relay =
than $29 for the same MAD relay and directions.  I get pretty MAD when I =
have to stop to get gas - happens very often, and the car wont start.  =
Rrrrruu,          rru,               r!   People come up to you and talk =
about how great it was back when they had a 442 just like this, but =
theirs always started.  Does anyone have the directions? =20

Luke 71 442 =20

------------------------------

From: Nick DiGiovanni <ndigiova@direct.ca>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 12:50:42 -0300
Subject: Re: Toronado GT 

At 05:42 PM 6/20/96 -0300, you wrote:
>
>     Sort of, I'm in Spokane.  I'm going to try my best to make it up to 
>     the All Olds Weekend that they're having up by Banff in September.  
>     Will I see you there?
>     
>     Tom L.
>
Yep, I've already made the reservations.  Hope to see you there.

Nick DiGiovanni
Port Coquitlam, B.C.
1970 4-4-2 - "Snarls Softly and Carries a Big Kick"

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 14:52:00 -0300
Subject: Re: Act of Congress

> Congress has declared June "National Starter, Solenoid, and Ground 
> Problem Month".  Bill "Heat Soak" Clinton will be laying a wreath (on the 
> ground, of course) at the Tomb of the Unknown Solenoid on Sunday.
> 
> Presidential candidate Bob Dole was expected to attend but unfortunately 
> his car won't start.  Republicans are charging Hillary Clinton with 
> pouring something called "whitewater" in his tank.

Actually, I think it's called the "White Lithium Grease" scandal :)


Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'88 Cadillac Brougham, a.k.a. 'Big Blue' -- Olds 307 Powered!!
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 15:51:11 -0300
Subject: Re[4]: Changing Differential Fluid 

Sorry guys, for jumping like that and getting an attitude.  I apologize.

Too bad synthetic doesn't have a synthetic smell, maybe cinnomon?

Isn't it fun getting the nozzle of the gear lube bottle into the fill hole and 
as the bottle empties, raising it up, and squeezing the bottle at the same time?
It was a really fun time with those screw top, fat Amsoil containers.  Used a 
funnel with about 5" of 1/2" tubing attached to direct the lube.  Topping it off
was the most fun.

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    "Oldsmobile - powerful roadsters with big V8s"
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 15:43:48 -0300
Subject: pushrods, etc.

> From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
> Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 18:24:04 -0300
> Subject: RE: You gotta help me with this PUSH ROD problem
>
> I would suggest getting a pushrod length checking tool ( any reputable =
> cam shop sells them), this will verify if the pushrods are indeed wrong =
> and if so it will give you the length you need then you just order a new =
> set for about $40.Otherwise the only real way to tell what is the =
> problem is to start disassembling your heads and check everything for =
> signs of wear, something tells me that since you didn't change much in =

Well.... Actually, all you really NEED to do, to start the ball rolling, is
remove the RACovers, check lifter preload. Put the cyl at TDC compression
[check rotor position to be sure], loosen the rocker pedestals- they WERE not
loose already, right?- then ever so lightly tighten them until all play is JUST
eliminated, but lifter plunger has not begun to move yet. Then, count how many
turns more to fuul tight. Should be 1/4 to 2 turns from zero lash to a tight
pedestal. If pedestal is tight before zero lash is achieved, THEN your p'rods
are too short, investigate further...  -Chris-

> From:     Fernando Proietto[SMTP:proietto@dow.on.doe.ca]
> Subject:     You gotta help me with this PUSH ROD problem
>
> my '72 350 are causing some serious noise these days and getting worse. =
> When I rebulit the=20
> engine I began cutting back on the expense of the rebuild. I decided to =
> ue my #5 heads and=20
> Problem is that I used FelPros high performance head gasket, you know, =
> the thick one with=20

only about 0.020" thicker- should be plenty of lifter plunger movement to
accomodate that...

> Installed everything and after a little while the 'noise' was =
> introduced. I even bought=20

After a while... hmmmm... early lifter failure? Find the noisy cylinder via
stethescope [i.e., pc. of hose to your ear...] or similar, pull its rocker &
p'rods, look for excessive wear or evidence of p'rod hitting head.

> Help me out guys I just want a quiet sounding engine, is this too much =
> to ask for from an Olds...?

No.

> While I don't doubt for a minute that you guys have had great success
> with Bob H's approach, until I can heard a reasonable explaination for
> it, I'll have to continue to class it with human sacrifice to the volcano
> gods.  (It went out didn't it?)  But then, I'm like that.    ;)

That's one of them things we just have to file under "dunno exactly WHY it's
so, but it's so" until/unless someone cares to ID the exact cause in terms of
resistance, motion, etc. It is known that to cure the hot start blues, use the
GM solenoid for gear motion, and a Ford-similar relay for making the electrical
connection.

> BTW, these external devices are relays.  Solenoids are the winding and
> actuator part of a relay (without contacts).  And why do will still call
> the ignition capacitor a condensor, anyway?
> The 66 Toro and Mike

Pick, picky.... I bet your car doesn't have a 425 "motor" either, huh? Prolly
an "engine" in there... Wanna take up the debate of whether 'weight transfer'
takes place under acceleration? :) -Chris-

> not to be an ass, but...i am for good luck and chain letters and crap, but
> please do not send another one of these...its just a waste of my time.

I second that motion; amusing, but a waste of time/ bandwidth/ snail mail
supplies & services [got one via that route last week]

> From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
> Subject: Harland Sharp rockers....
> I am considering using Harland Sharp roller rockers on a set of 7(a) heads
> for my 403.  I understand that use have to use 7/16" studs and a set of
> pushrod guide plate's.  Does anybody have any experience using these?? does
> anybody recommend these??? They are a bit pricey, even from Summit ($217 for
> the rockers, $27.50 for the studs, and $23.95 for the plates).  I would like
> to get some input before I spend the cash...  Thanks for the help... Tom
> Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com

Oh, did they mention the heads have to be cut like 0.125" to accomodate the
guide plates.. by the time you add that shop charge, why use adapted C*evy
parts when you can get for similar $, true bolt-on Olds parts from Mondello or
DMRacing... I would never cobble guide plates, etc. onto an Olds motor unless
there was NO OTHER WAY.  -Chris-

> Subject: test
>
> This is a test.
> Have a 73 Olds.
> DrkSole

Hope we passed the test OK... -Chris-

> hooked it up, turned the key, and got a buzzing from the relay on the fire
> wall, the brake light wouldn't light up, even though the Parking brake was
> engaged, the needles on the gauges all immediately went to the top of their
> readings (read full tank, 250*, and 80 psi), and the interior light for the
> cluster didn't work.  Any ideas on what's going on? I appreciate your help.
> DrkSole

Sounds like the wiring is quite different. If you don't have one, you MUST get
a factory service [chassis] manual. Invaluable in tracking down such troubles,
modifying with good results, etc. -Chris-

> Paul and Chris (thank you) advised.  One question if I do thread for a 1/4" ro
d and I install it will this

I did this for myself... Think it was 1/4-28 thread I used, not sure. One trick
is to get nuts with smaller than usual wrench size if nuts are used. I
considered making them for actual use, then decided against it. For engine use,
not just checking length, the oil hole would have to be there, and the threaded
part would have to be made from heat treated high quality steel, and all would
have to be very carefully machined to be as nearly straight as possible... not
worth the hassle even with a huge shop at my disposal. -Chris-

> the kit. I would think even after such little use there already exists a wear
pattern on the cam so by replacing
> the lifters wouldn't it cause the cam to wear prematurely? Not that it won't h
> Fernando Proietto

I was under the impression that you can replace lifters onto a used cam at any
time w/o problem, but used lifters on a new cam or on the incorrect lobe of the
same cam is a no-no. Lifters are but $35 a set, get new ones... -Chris-

> I didn't mill the heads, I left them stock. If I shim the rockers, wouldn't th
at raise them and thus
> cause a larger tolerance between the rocker pivot and the push rod?

Good call. That was not a good suggestion to cure too much clearance.

> I took the rocker cover off to inspect the valve train and noticed either pist
ion #3 or #5 push rod
> very loose. I could move it up and down with my fingers. The rockers and the r
etainer were torqued
> down and not loose. I no rod was bent or worn from the upper end either.
> Fernando Proietto

Either the rocker/ pedestal is worn, the p'rod bent, the lifter plunger stuck
down, or the cam lobe is wiped off... check total cam motion vs. other lobes...
- -Chris-

> ok thanks for the idea...i'll look around for it...by the way how tough is
> it to put a 455 in a G body?  since the S-10 has the same front end and
> almost the same total frame is it possible?
>                                 zack

If the 78 Cutlass is a G body- easy. Fits fine. -Chris-

>      The careful application of terror is also a form of communication.

does this have something to do with the recent rash of electrical hot-wires
stories lately?  :)

> From: "Shawn M. Twomey" <stwom@ctp.com>
> Subject: Adjustable rocker arms & screw-in studs
> Is there great benefit to getting adjustable rocker arms & screw-in studs?
> I'm thinking about them for my 350-can anyone say whether or not they've
> used them in the past and why or why not?  Does Mondello sell them (I have a
> catalog on the way)?

Easy adjustment, but don't they also require guide plates/ hard p'rods/ machine
work to the heads...?  -Chris-

> From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
> Subject: Re: PUSH ROD problem
>
> So after I make this push rod how do I go about checking for the correct rod l
ength. I install the modified push rod and set
> the length...then what? Will I need a guage or do I listen (with car idling) a
nd adjust the length until the noise stops?

You're supposed to call Mondello with these highly technical Q's! Heh. Um, I
b'leeve what you do is, insert APR [Adjustable P'rod] in slack mode. Tighten
rocker. Make sure lifter's on base circle of cam. There should be some slack,
slop, clearance, play in the valvetrain. Remove said slack by extending APR.
Carefully remove it, and record it's length. Do this for as many lifters as you
like/ can stand. Take the minimum length, add about oh 0.050" for lifter
plunger depression, and order your PR's that length. -Chris-

> What if I use a very strong metal threaded rod made of like lets say 'nitroloy
- --snip lotsa shop ideas--
uff instead of buying it? How hard can it be to make these things?

Hard enough that it's not worth doing it unless you feel like experimenting.
For the hell of it, to say YOU did it. While you're at it, mitaswell make a few
sets, sell of the extras to pay for yours, right? How do you think I got 100
chrome moly oil pump drive rods, and am willing to sell them for as little as
1/6th the price of some companies... :)  -Chris-

> Does anybody know if Oldsmobile stopped considering a Calais a type of
> Cutlass?  It isn't some big issue that's going to change my life or
> anything, but I really would love to know the story behind this. :)
> Jennifer Wood

Actually, when buying insurance, it might very well change your life.
Drastically diff. rates for performance cars... Shoot, if they want to think
it's like one of them little P.O.S. 4-banger things, fine...
  On a more helpful note, I should think a dealer would have THE service manual
which would tell from the VIN exactly what the model is called by the
manufacturer, but I think that most such were technically Cutlasses, but with
lots of options or trim or something that warranted the 'special' name. Not
like say the '68 442 which indeed has a different VIN from a Cutlass [thought
the body tag might be the same!] -Chris-
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 16:41:22 -0300
Subject: Rollers, etc.

> I do: Your insurance lady is an idiot.  :-)

There's probably a more polite way to point that out to her [the idiot, uh,
insurance lady]...

> from that rowdy cam? Still it's a 'race-prepped' cam supposedly, and on full

oooops, race-prepped TRANS... Even says "no filter" on the case...

> On a related note, a fellow down here wants to know if it is possible to
> install Olds roller lifters in older blocks, in this case a '66 400.  Will
> they fit?  I assume a roller lifter cam would be required.
> Roller lifters and roller rockers should free up quite a few ponies in an
> olds big block Olds.
> Bob Handren OCA #7728

Bob, you stole my idea! That was my next big plan. Use a pre-68 block with
0.921 lifters, thus the modern 39 degree cam... diesel/307 roller lifters, a
roller cam... roller rockers... etc.
  Of course, lesser engines with .842 lifters can also enjoy roller lifters-
just get Poncho units. Common & cheap. Well, it $250 a set if cheap. Now diesel
lifters- that's cheap- used units, cleaned up... change the 3/8" pushrod seat
for a 5/16"... Heh.  PS the Toro 425 block is .921 lifter, 455 bore :)
- --Chris-- [oh, yeah, copyright 1996, Rocket Science]

> Do you mean lifters or rockers that we have been talking about? at any =
> rate yes a roller cam is a must. Roller lifters should fit the above =

Agreed.

> engine --no problem but all lifters must be checked for clearance in the =
> lifter bores as older part numbers will require block machining to fit =
> properly.

Oh, yeah, there's that pesky machining operation. Did I mention that? The
answer was, yes, it CAN be done. Might not be EASY, but it CAN be done. -Chris-

> So after I make this push rod how do I go about checking for the correct =
- --snip about 50 extra lines of old stuff--

SOMEBODY is still noticeably lax in deleting old lines from his posts... Sure
would be nice it they would fix that...

> From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
> Subject: RE: Race car
> Chris is this the same engine that recently gernaded itself? What gear, =

Same car... Thanks Gods it runs OK now.

> tire and weight  is that car running? What type of trans is it? Are you =
> going to tear into it? If its a TH400 I have tons of parts for them if =
> you need anything in particular.

TH400, "race=prepped" by the same dork who put one LC piston in??? dunno.
3.73 posi. Sticky 29" tires, I forget the brand, hard to spin 'em though. If it
gets more attention from ME, it'd be more of a trans swap than trans rebuild,
I'm sure. Thanks for the notice. Might need your expertise.

> From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
> Subject: RE: need 403 help
> Client places car in gear...  and it dies. Again & again. Tape off the brake
>
> How much vacumn do you have at idle? Did you say you replaced the cam or timin
g gear set?

Good call! That's what I checked next- nowhere near enough- scale said like
"late valve timing" - red zone- much better now that timing is correct. Yep,
new timing set. Used Olds cam with 0.440" lift. New lifters.

> one gasket under them. Up until quite recently they even had the same =
> part number and could be ordered considerably cheaper when specifing =
> Ford instead of Olds, but like everyone else these days the manufactures =
> got wise and now have different part numbers.

Oh, so it's a game of 'screw the Olds guys' out there in Supply Land, eh?

> From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
> Subject: 455
>
> is there a way to put a 455 in a 78-88 Cutlass?  i am asking this because

Did the whole race car story just pass you by like a cool summer breeze? Was
455, now 425 [identical externally...], 1978 Cutlass... -Chris-

> Hmmm, reading my own post - I forgot that 66-67 400s used the "big" lifter.
>  Are there roller lifters (such as diesel) that will work for these?

Yes....

> I am asking about _both_ and whether they can be used in a BB Olds for both
> the small and large lifter engines, both lifter angles as well.  So, that
> means cam availability too.

Well, any pre-68 blocks with .921 lifters, conveeeeeniently the Diesel/307
size... will have the modern easy to find cam for "39 degree" cam bank angle,
which incidentally I have measured 3 different ways to be more like 42.5
degrees, but that's neither here nor there. -Chris-

> Assuming roller lifters fit, are there any other parts or modifications
> needed to install them?  Do they use guide plates over the lifter bores or
> are they the type with extensions down either side of the cam lobe, i.e. self
> centering?

Stock units are guide-plated, plates held down by tin device bolted to 1/4"
bolt holes in the valley center... some are available with slide plates.

> What do you mean.  Of course the correct lifter diameter must be used.  But

I think he means that lifter bore top might need to be cut down/ flat to
accomodate the guide plates that keep the lifters rolling straight on the cam.

> the roller centered over the cam lobe.  I thought that OEM roller lifters
> centered themselved by using extensions down both sides of the cam lobe.

Don't think so. Neat idea, though.

>  I've never seen an Olds engine so worn out that the lifter bores needed
> anything.  With the exception of a neglected, rusted block which I would pass
> on anyway.  Are you talking about any "unusual" measurement?
> Bob Handren

Would you like to hear about my 0.010 oversize lifter bore, and the fact that
os lifters are simply NOT available ANYWHERE in 0.921 size, except roller form,
at $50 EACH...? -Chris-

> >I think the 73 would have more like a wire harness that connects to the
> >back of the pack, but same principle...
>
> Okay, somewhere someone needs to find a wiring diagram. The wires going
> into the plug(s) to the back of the gauge cluster will be color-coded.
> Map out which wire does what -- match its color to that of the wiring
> diagram, etc.

I could've sworn that I insisted the guy get a chassis service manual for
himself... -Chris-

> Is there a way I can check that the lifters are functioning properly, without
taking off the intake or am I asking for too much now?
> Common guys/gals reach into your bag of tricks and tell me how? And nothing th
at involves a rabbit.

Yeah, measure how much you can move that lifter's plunger vs. another known
good one- about 0.250-0.300" is typical. Will take time, if full of oil, as you
are essentially bleeding them down...

> >I forgot to mention
> >(duh!) that the ammeter gauge has been reading low-I had been ignoring it
> >becuase I thought the gauge was busted-but since the grounding problems it
> >reads much lower than normal, never gets out of the "red zone" in fact.

Shawn, you have a large electron stuck in the wires. Disconnect the battery,
take off the wires, and shake them out real good. Put them back on, and all
will be fine. -Chris-

> Watch out for the bathroom white stuff, I've heard judges take points off
> for stuff like that :), especially on a W-27.

My wife noted that my brother & I were using 2 diff colors of RTV on the race
engine... "old racer's trick"  I assured her.... :)
  Kinda like the oil p sender in the intake- I like that one... hook a wire up
to it, even... Heh.

> Look at it another way.  Bean and castor oils are edible (although I know the
> latter is less than enjoyable).  But I wouldn't suggest ingesting petroleum
> based oils - they contain poisons, can get into your lungs if you vomit and
> kill you. They don't do anything good for humans or animals and since we all
> evolved from the basic chemicals of life, won't be too good for microbes
> either too.

My mom says that her dad once won a bet that he could not drink a Qt. of motor
oil... I wondered why he died of a car wreck, then, not poisoning... she
replied that the bet did not stipulate that he KEEP IT DOWN. Eeeeeew!
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 17:43:08 -0300
Subject: Re: Act of Congress 

          
          As I've always suspected, CEOs have waaaaaay too much time 
          on their hands ;-)
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 16:49:03 -0300
Subject: fun with 260's?

So, a friend, Pat Lind, has decided to do what some of us can only dream about
doing...

Hot-rod a 260 engine...

yes, it's true, he found a serviceable block at Padnos, good bores. No piston
$. He figures a cam can be used in another engine later anyhow... So he's gonna
try to make a screaming 260 engine. I told him he's pretty much stuck with 260
heads unless he can get some old 330 small chamber units & mill them about 10cc
off... MIGHT get to 9:1 compression...

Anyhow, somebody had to do it... And Pat's a big-car freak, too... Hmmm....
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 17:48:43 -0300
Subject: Re[5]: Changing Differential Fluid 

          
Isn't it fun getting the nozzle of the gear lube bottle into the fill hole and 
as the bottle empties, raising it up, and squeezing the bottle at the same time?
          
          Years ago (when I lived in SoCal) I bought 90 weight gear 
          oil from Chief Auto Parts in square pint containers with a 
          screw top.  The same company (I'll try to remember to check 
          the brand name tonight) also sold a pump which fit into the 
          container to make it easy to transfer the gear oil into the 
          differential.  It still works great.
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 16:52:38 -0300
Subject: 70 88 duals xman

Anybody KNOW for sure the casting code and/or number for a LH duals xst
manifold for a 70 88 such as W33 car? Roger Bacon's still looking for one. So
far he claims that
- -69 is NOT the same
- -71, etc are NOT the same.
- -W will not work
- -Toro units no workee either
- -Not even the elusive "S" maifold such as on a 66 starfire or my recently
acquired 69 455 will fit.

He thinks it's an X code, has a part#, but no casting number. I have a couple
X's on hand, but they are configured just like a W... Which he has tried
[physically] and does not fit.

Part # ends in -233 I think.
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: Charles A Rogers <roger035@gold.tc.umn.edu>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 16:55:37 -0300
Subject: Re: 455

On Thu, 20 Jun 1996, Buddha wrote:

> is there a way to put a 455 in a 78-88 Cutlass?  i am asking this because
> the S-10 has the same front clip as the cutlass and am wanting soem SERIOUS
> power...and if it would be a pain in the ass, what is the largest engine
> that i can put in there w/o too much trouble...better yet, what was the
> largest engine offered in these years
>                                 Zack
> 
> 
The largest engine was the ford 460.  i think.

but people who drive fords are dicks

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 20:12:55 -0300
Subject: Re: 455

Charles A Rogers wrote:
> 
> but people who drive fords are dicks

I hope that doesn't include Lincoln Continentials.  
Jeannie's going to be VERY suprised to find out about this.      :o



The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 17:25:09 -0300
Subject: Re: 455

> > is there a way to put a 455 in a 78-88 Cutlass?  i am asking this because
> > the S-10 has the same front clip as the cutlass and am wanting soem SERIOUS
> > power...and if it would be a pain in the ass, what is the largest engine
> > that i can put in there w/o too much trouble...better yet, what was the
> > largest engine offered in these years
> >                                 Zack
> > 
> > 
> The largest engine was the ford 460.  i think.

Cadillac had a 472 and a 500.  I think your best bet is a 455.
Olds, of course.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-5450    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: clark@sh28.dseg.ti.com (Pat Clark 952-3776)
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 17:27:44 -0300
Subject: Re: 455

> From oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca Fri Jun 21 14:58 CDT 1996
> Date: 	Fri, 21 Jun 1996 16:55:37 -0300
> From: Charles A Rogers <roger035@gold.tc.umn.edu>
> To: oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
> cc: oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
> Subject: Re: 455
> MIME-Version: 1.0


>but people who drive fords are dicks
> 
> 

WHOA THERE BIG FELLA! This sounds like a post from rec.autos.antique.
I know we don't like f*rds here, but I am sure we all (or most of us)
have either friends or relatives that drive them. We save most of our
marque bashing for the ch*vy camp (and even then it is done tastefully)

 				Pat Clark
    				 69 442
    			        400/TH400
    			  clark@abu.dseg.ti.com

     The careful application of terror is also a form of communication.

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 17:52:11 -0300
Subject: Still no dash pad 

OK guys I still need a 72 saddle color dash pad.
I do not want to paint a black dash.
I would like a original saddle AC dash pad.
So any of you olds experts willing to help besides
W30Jim.  please respond ASAP please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

72 W30 Race Rocket

------------------------------

From: sfindley@slps.k12.mo.us (S. Findley)
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 18:56:18 -0300
Subject: Re: Q-Jet Testimony was: The Flaming Dubonette & Engine Gernades 

>In a message dated 96-06-14 08:06:01 EDT, you write:
>
><<  The only drawback is that the
>           AFB is not a spreadbore design, and thus requires the fugly
>           adapter to install on a factory manifold.  Plus, I happen to
>           like the idea of a spreadbore...itsy bitsy primaries for
>           better fuel economy ("when driven the same..." >>
>In the mid 70's Carter offered a performance version of the Thermoquad.  It
>was only a relative of the OEM version, was _very_ easy to tune with strip
>kits, etc.  It's what I ran on the '64 Cutlass I had.  That car ran mid 11's
>at ~116.  Too little interest, they dropped it.  Too bad, it was even better
>than the Q-Jet becuase it was so easy to tune. Used same type of metering
>rods as AFB.  The jets used o-rings, just pop out the old and in the new.
>
>Great carb.  Too bad it's gone.
>
>Bob Handren

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 21:17:20 -0300
Subject: pushrod, 394 engine

It occurs to me that I mighta instructed Fernando to select the min. psuhrod
length & add lifter plunger depression to get the size to order...  ooooops!
what I meant I guess was MAX length plus plunger depression... if you take the
min. plus LPD, that might still not be enough for the longest required one...
Too much LPD you can live with... too little he's got already.

Was at Padnos today... the 394 had gotten shoved back into the pile, was upside
down on the chrome RACovers... I picked a couple items out, saw a '66 TH400
with the switch-pitch it appears- 2 wires run into it. Got a wheel chair lift
[$25] has electro-hydraulic unit & some LONG cylinders... was just about to buy
the 394 that won't turn anyhow even though they broke the xst manifolds &
such... oh, my, here comes an aluminum semi trailer and the 40-ft tall
magneto-crane... right to the engine pile.
  And there it went. 37 years & out.
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #210
********************************

