
oldsmobile-digest          Thursday, 27 June 1996       Volume 01 : Number 215


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 10:24:10 -0300
Subject: Re: Oil pressure gauge ergonomics 

>     1. (preferred) to remove the cluster and swap the fuel and oil gauge 
>     locations.  Will they physically swap?

Uhh... maybe. With a little bending of metal and creative wiring, you can
upgrade that to "probably". Once you pull the dash faceplate and light mask
off, you don't find four little round instruments, but four squarish dials
that butt against each other and/or overlap slightly so that the mounting
screws can hold them down at the corners. Never tried actually swapping them
over the last time I had that type of cluster apart (was too busy trying to
jumper a broken backlighting trace at the other end -- do they _all_ break
there?), but I'd foresee two problems:

1) Rerouting the circuits. The signal lead for each gauge can be switched
by simply swapping the wires going into the harness plug. You'll be lucky
if the field winding clips are positioned the same way on both gauges and
wired on the same circuit; someone with a wiring diagram will have to tell
you whether that's true. If not, some jumper wires will be needed.

2) Physically mounting the gauges in each other's original location. You'll
have to do a little metal bending, I'd guess. One way or another you ought
to be able to brute-force a fit. You get a little leeway for bending up the
edges without making that visible through the openings in the light mask.

>     2.  Get a T connector and install an idiot-light type sending unit 
>     next to the stock sending unit.  Then have this activate a 12v Radio 
>     Shack piezo buzzer.

Sure, or get a GM buzzer from somewhere so it sounds right. (Our old '69
Pontiac Custom S had _the_ most gawdawful key reminder buzzer, and you
certainly want something that's hard on the ears for this application.)
RatShack also has a 12V LED which you can tuck into a little drilled hole
somewhere in the gauge cluster for a warning light, too.

> The idiot light sender grounds, right?

Yes.

>  So I could just hook the other size of the buzzer to an ignition switched 
>     12v source?

Yes.

>  I don't think a buzzer takes much more current than an 
>     idiot bulb would, so I think the sending unit can handle the current 
>     w/o using a relay.

Yes.
     
>     And lastly, quite a while back (I have the msg. in my archives) 
>     someone mentioned that the GM performance parts catalog had a 120mph 
>     speedo available many years ago.  Does anyone know of a source for 
>     these?

No.  :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Chip <chip@in-motion.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 12:02:20 -0300
Subject: unsubscribe

unsubscribe oldsmobile Chip <chip@in-motion.net>


Sorry to much traffic for me at this time.

------------------------------

From: "Shawn M. Twomey" <stwom@ctp.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 12:53:39 -0300
Subject: Re:  FAQ problem 

>Anyone tried to access the FAQ through Shawn Twomey's homepage lately?  I've
>tried twice now through AOL internet connection and my computer freezes when
                         ^^^
>loading the first few KBites of the text file.  This computer rarely freezes
>so I suspect the problem is on the other end of the line.  Shawn?    

Well, I've underlined what _I_ think the problem is.  :P
There doesn't seem to be any problems here.  Were you able to read it thru
AOL before?  Anyone else having problems?  If not, lets take it to private
email and we'll troubleshoot.


__________________________________________________________________________
Shawn M. Twomey     |  "No!  Try NOT!  Do, or do not.  There is no try."
stwom@ctp.com       |  -Yoda
__________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 05:45:41 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: hello.... 

     Arrrrghhh!  Now you tell me!  My '79 Cutlass w/260 (as well as a '76 
     Nova L6 I had years ago) both had TH-200's in them.  I'd have loved to 
     get either replaced.  The cost of a tranny was the only thing keeping 
     me from slapping a real V8 in either car.  On the other hand, no 
     problems with either, except the Ch*vy leaked bad and wasn't worth 
     fixing.
     
     I remember trying to figure out what kind of tranny it was, the 200 
     and 350 are almost identical externally (there are ways to tell, but 
     it's hard when it's in the car and covered with grease) so I asked the 
     shop to check when I had it in for A/C service.  I was going to change 
     the fluid and filter, but if it was a TH200 I didn't want to bother.  
     They automatically told me it was a TH350 w/o looking at it (is it a 
     V8?  Yup.  Then it's _has_ to be a TH350!).  They were quite 
     astonished to see a TH200 in there.  I guess they're somewhat of a 
     rarity.
     
     Totally unrelated question:  Does anyone know what rear-end ratio 
     commonly came on Cutlass diesels?
     
Tom L.

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: hello....
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    6/25/96 8:15 PM


     Agreed. From what I hear, the TH-200 was RECALLED by GM and replaced 
     by the much stronger TH-350.  V6's killed it prematurely, not to 
     mention the V8's.  I read an old magazine article arguing that 
     properly built, the TH-200 was actually better than the 350 because it 
     has lighter internals and etc
     

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 12:21:45 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: hello.... 

>     They automatically told me it was a TH350 w/o looking at it (is it a 
>     V8?  Yup.  Then it's _has_ to be a TH350!).  They were quite 
>     astonished to see a TH200 in there.  I guess they're somewhat of a 
>     rarity.

Um, really? My wife's old '78 Grand Prix had what I remember to be a TH200
in it, mated to a 305 (?), I think it was. This was supposedly one of the
early "metric" (pronounce with disgust :-) transmissions that were failing
all over the place back in the early '80's. Hers barfed shortly after the
car was bought (very used), but the local transmission outfit swapped in a
rebuilt one and it was just fine for years afterward. And my wife is one of
those who regard the gas pedal as an On/Off switch, too.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 06:15:59 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Oil pressure gauge ergonomics 

     Thanks for the help, Andy.  It doesn't sound good.  I'm not willing to 
     do any permanent damage to the cluster trying to swap it.  I will 
     still take a look, since I have to take the cluster apart to fix the 
     tach problem anyway.  Maybe I'll keep my eyes open for a rally pack in 
     a junkyard to try it on (A pull-your-own-part type junkyard just 
     opened in Spokane, our first one like that.  Yahoo!  Called yesterday 
     and they said they have 15 '78 Cutlasses, 13 '79's, etc. etc. up 
     through late 80's).
     
     I think the buzzer sounds like a better idea.  I think the lens for 
     the OIL light is still in the dash, although unused.  I'd prefer a 
     buzzer though to tell me "Hey stupid, look at the gauge quick!".  I'd 
     rather not have one that sounds like my headlight chime, I want 
     something odd and obnoxious.
     
     What ~were~ they thinking (smoking?) when the GM engineers arranged 
     the gauges like that?  It's like they never even bothered to try to 
     actually USE the car they designed.
     
     Tom L.

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Oil pressure gauge ergonomics
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    6/26/96 8:16 AM
     
     Uhh... maybe. With a little bending of metal and creative wiring, you 
     can upgrade that to "probably". Once you pull the dash faceplate and 
     light mask 

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 12:40:16 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Oil pressure gauge ergonomics 

>     I think the buzzer sounds like a better idea.  I think the lens for 
>     the OIL light is still in the dash, although unused.

If yours has that double column of idiot lights down the right end, yes;
in fact, one or two of the legends appear twice, in two different places,
I guess depending on what options the car had. Hold the lens up to the
light while the cluster is out of the car and take a look. All you need
to supply is a socket and bulb, then tap into the right trace in back.

Personally, I always wanted to think of some use for the "WATER IN FUEL"
and "WAIT" indicators that came with my '82 but were only used (obviously)
on Diesel cars, of which mine was not.  :-)

>  I'd prefer a 
>     buzzer though to tell me "Hey stupid, look at the gauge quick!".

Heck, you can wire both in parallel, light and buzzer.

>     What ~were~ they thinking (smoking?) when the GM engineers arranged 
>     the gauges like that?  It's like they never even bothered to try to 
>     actually USE the car they designed.

Dunno. And this car directly followed the '73-'77 series, which IMHO had
one of the _nicest_ dash designs I've ever seen.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 14:24:27 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: hello.... 

At 05:45 6.26.96 -0300, you wrote:
>
>     Arrrrghhh!  Now you tell me!  My '79 Cutlass w/260 (as well as a '76 
>     Nova L6 I had years ago) both had TH-200's in them.  I'd have loved to 
>     get either replaced.  The cost of a tranny was the only thing keeping 
>     me from slapping a real V8 in either car.  On the other hand, no 
>     problems with either, except the Ch*vy leaked bad and wasn't worth 
>     fixing.
>     
>     I remember trying to figure out what kind of tranny it was, the 200 
>     and 350 are almost identical externally (there are ways to tell, but 
>     it's hard when it's in the car and covered with grease) so I asked the 
actually, you can just tell by the pan...each one has a different pand and
number of bolts...easy enough...
                        zack

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 09:17:57 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: hello....

Andrew C. Green wrote:
> 
> >     They automatically told me it was a TH350 w/o looking at it (is it a
> >     V8?  Yup.  Then it's _has_ to be a TH350!).  They were quite
> >     astonished to see a TH200 in there.  I guess they're somewhat of a
> >     rarity.
> 
> Um, really? 
> Andrew C. Green            

Andrew:

I don't know if these were trouble or not, but my brother-in-law was an 
automatic transmission specialist for a local dealer back then.  He told 
me that he had to work on many of the new Chevies on the truck carrier 
because they couldn't get them to drive off.  They got to where they 
used a crane & fork lift regularly to get them in the shop.  I wonder 
where all of those cars went after they were "dealer prepped"?

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Mike.Coccagna@smtp2.kis.net
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 15:18:37 -0300
Subject: Not so 'Power Windows'

I am having a problem with my power windows - they take quite a while 
to close (over a minute sometimes :-(  ).  I have checked the ground 
wire since the windows occasionally move faster, but it was tight and 
clean, so I am stumped.  The passenger side window operates the same 
way with the switch on the pass. door as it does from the drivers 
side, so I doubt it could be the switch. I would greatly appreciate 
any suggestions to remedying the situation (except remove car, 
purchase real 442...).

As an afterthought, is there any place to possibly lubricate to 
smooth up the movement in the door?

Thanks for the help.



Mike
'91 W-40 Quad442

------------------------------

From: Scott David Ballentine <sb7k+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 14:38:57 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: hello....

Excerpts from oldsmail: 26-Jun-96 Re[2]: hello.... by "Tom Lentz"@teknon.com 
>      I remember trying to figure out what kind of tranny it was, the 200 
>      and 350 are almost identical externally (there are ways to tell, but 
>      it's hard when it's in the car and covered with grease)....

I think the 200 will have the word "METRIC" stamped on the pan, and the
350 won't.  A long long time ago I decided to change my tranny fluid in
my car (80 Cutlass, 260).  Somebody told me that the 200 was the only
transmission I could have in the car for that year/model/engine.  I get
to the parts store, tell them what I've got, and they ask which trans
I've got - the book lists two transmissions - the 200 and the 350. 
Anyway, I lucked out - I've got the TH350.  Anyway, I hope this helps.


    -Scott Ballentine
     sb7k@andrew.cmu.edu
     Carnegie Mellon University
     School of Computer Science

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 13:35:17 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: hello.... 

>I don't know if these were trouble or not, but my brother-in-law was an 
>automatic transmission specialist for a local dealer back then.  He told 
>me that he had to work on many of the new Chevies on the truck carrier 
>because they couldn't get them to drive off.  They got to where they 
>used a crane & fork lift regularly to get them in the shop. 

Ah, that would explain the dents in the side doors of a lot of these
cars, and those parallel dents under the body where the forklift was
lifting the cars.

And those test drives must have been interesting... chugging down the
street sideways, held about four feet in the air by a forklift...  :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 16:06:05 -0300
Subject: Cars for Sale 

Found these at www.carcollector.com:

'03 Oldsmobile,
Contact Manny or George Dragone, 1797 Main Street, Bridgeport CT 06604. Or 
call
203-335-4643, fax 203-335-9798

1967 Oldsmobile Toronado Duluxe , immaculate original interior,super 
brightwork in and out, loaded, runs, rides and drives the best. Only 69K 
miles -- fairly priced at $6,950.
CADDY DADDY CLASSICS "Home of the Good Old Big 'uns" Lexington, KY -- 
606-233-2339 Specializing in Cadillacs andother fine rides of the 50's, 
60's and 70's ready for show or go and most priced under $10,000. 

1941 Oldsmobile Model 66, 2-door sedan, 40,000 actual miles. $6,500.
24026 Highway 151, Monticello, IA 52310 Ph: 319-465-3064 Fax: 319-465-6048 
(In Florida: 305-426-3417)

1955 Oldsmobile Super 88 Convert. A 20,000 original mile example. Perfect 
original interior. New black paint and top. $39,500.
RVM Classics                    608-255-5166 or fax 608-255-2325


There's also a nice Auto Catalog section that describes many companies' 
products, how to contact them and how much their catalog is.  Most 
companies will send the catalog free if you call.

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    "Oldsmobile - powerful roadsters with big V8s"
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu

------------------------------

From: "Brian Lorway" <blorway@rust.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 14:51:29 -0300
Subject: W-30 Detailing questions...

I have a few questions pertaining to engine compartment detailing for my
70' W-30. Any help would be appreciated.

1.) Thermostat housing finish. Painted Olds blue or unfinished?

2.) Brake master cyl. Painted black or unfinished?

3.) The appearance of the paint used for such things as brackets for
alternator, pwr steering pump, firewall, metal around hood latch area etc.
Should this be "shiney" black paint or more of a "dull" finish black
paint? What did the factory use?
- -- 
1970 442 W-30

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 15:02:17 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: hello.... 

At 02:38 PM 6/26/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Excerpts from oldsmail: 26-Jun-96 Re[2]: hello.... by "Tom Lentz"@teknon.com 
>>      I remember trying to figure out what kind of tranny it was, the 200 
>>      and 350 are almost identical externally (there are ways to tell, but 
>>      it's hard when it's in the car and covered with grease)....
>
>I think the 200 will have the word "METRIC" stamped on the pan, and the
>350 won't.  

To bolster this point, I once had a 1977 Chevy Caprice, and it had a TH200
transmission, and the word METRIC was stamped in big bold letters
on the pan.


Dan


************************************************
Daniel A. Gulino
Associate Professor and Graduate Chairman
Department of Chemical Engineering
Ohio University
Athens, Ohio  45701-2979
(614) 593-1495
(614) 593-0873 (fax)
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://www.ent.ohiou.edu/che/faculty/gulino.html
************************************************

------------------------------

From: clark@sh28.dseg.ti.com (Pat Clark 952-3776)
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 15:16:38 -0300
Subject: turn signals

Have an interesting development on my 69 442. With the car off (didn't try it
with the car running) and the key on, the blinkers quit blinking when the 
headlights are turned on. They work fine by themselves or with the brakelight
on. Any ideas?


 				Pat Clark
    				 69 442
    			        400/TH400
    			  clark@abu.dseg.ti.com

     The careful application of terror is also a form of communication.

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 16:45:14 -0300
Subject: Dolt Mechanics, Definitions, Mint 

Chris,
Didn't the guy tell you that the supercharger wasn't for sale? :)  This 
story has to be the best yet.  At least the guy used HC pistons all the way 
around and the same heads on both sides!  Good thing five of the six bolts 
worked after flipping the flexplate over.  This guy couldn't live too close 
to the edge afterall!

Loved those definitions and, Tim, loved the "mint" story.  I bet that car 
will be "mint" for a long time.

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    "Oldsmobile - powerful roadsters with big V8s"
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu

- --------------------
But here's the kicker- this dolt put a 425 crank into a late 400
engine... but with the stock late 400 rods & pistons. Let's see, the L400
stroke is 4.250, 425/E400 is like 3.975"... a diff of, oh, 0.275", which means
that the rod journal is about 0.140" closer to the crank center, which means
that, with stock L400 rods & pistons... the piston never came closer than about
0.150" to the deck surface...
  Must've made for compression on the order of 5 or 6:1! Sheeeeesh. "Ran real
good" Yeah, I bet. No wonder he pulled it out & put a 350 in. Dang.

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 14:49:41 -0300
Subject: Re: turn signals 

>Have an interesting development on my 69 442. With the car off (didn't try it
>with the car running) and the key on, the blinkers quit blinking when the 
>headlights are turned on. They work fine by themselves or with the brakelight
>on. Any ideas?

No biggie; I think the headlamps are sopping up enough current that the
turn signal flasher won't cycle. With the car running, the alternator
supplies the missing juice to make them all operate at once. Putting on
the brakelights _and_, say, the cigarette lighter might be enough to stop
the blinkers without the engine running, too.

Try a new turn signal flasher if the old one's getting slow. I think a
#323 would work for yours, flashing three bulbs per side (1 in front,
2 in back and we don't count the little one in the dash). For two bulbs
per side I think a #552 is the one. Look it up to be sure, though.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 14:52:17 -0300
Subject: Re: turn signals 

Previously I said:
>Try a new turn signal flasher if the old one's getting slow. I think a
>#323 would work for yours, flashing three bulbs per side (1 in front,
>2 in back and we don't count the little one in the dash). For two bulbs
>per side I think a #552 is the one. Look it up to be sure, though.

Whoops, you said a _1969_ 442; that would be a #552 for yours, not a #323.
(Picky difference, really; probably either would work okay.)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Jon442@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 16:07:20 -0300
Subject: Re: W-30 Detailing questions... 

I have a few questions pertaining to engine compartment detailing for my
70' W-30. Any help would be appreciated.

1.) Thermostat housing finish. Painted Olds blue or unfinished?

If the thermostat housing is the factory housing with the rubber bypass hose,
it should be painted blue. If it is the replacement dealer-installed housing
with the metal bypass hose, it should be left natural. The dealers did NOT
paint the housing blue when they put them on. And most housings are the
replacement housing, since the rubber bypass hose had a tendency to blow.

2.) Brake master cyl. Painted black or unfinished?

The master cylinder should be left natural. You can buy some "natural" paint
from Eastwood and other places to keep it looking correct without rusting.

3.) The appearance of the paint used for such things as brackets for
alternator, pwr steering pump, firewall, metal around hood latch area etc.
Should this be "shiney" black paint or more of a "dull" finish black
paint? What did the factory use?

The accessory brackets should have a shiny finish, although they do tend to
dull down with time becasue of engine heat, etc. For the power steering pump
and firewall, I suggest GM Chassis Black. It has the correct semi-gloss
finish and is durable.

Best of luck!

Jon Wessel

------------------------------

From: glenn connors <gpc442@buffnet.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 11:13:59 -0300
Subject: Re: FAQ problem

>Anyone tried to access the FAQ through Shawn Twomey's homepage lately?  I've
>tried twice now through AOL internet connection and my computer freezes when
>loading the first few KBites of the text file.  This computer rarely freezes
>so I suspect the problem is on the other end of the line.  Shawn?    
>
>-Aaron
>
>
I just DL'd the FAQ Mon. night and printed it without a problem.  But I'm
not using AOL though.  AOL I believe utilizes it's own Download Manager.


Glenn
'69 4-4-2

------------------------------

From: Joanne Beausoleil <jbeausol@ftp.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 16:16:21 -0300
Subject: RE: turn signals

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB6372.6F152960
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

It's not a problem, it's a feature.

- ----------
From: 	Pat Clark 952-3776[SMTP:clark@sh28.dseg.ti.com]
Sent: 	Wednesday, June 26, 1996 2:16 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	turn signals

Have an interesting development on my 69 442. With the car off (didn't try it
with the car running) and the key on, the blinkers quit blinking when the 
headlights are turned on. They work fine by themselves or with the brakelight
on. Any ideas?


 				Pat Clark
    				 69 442
    			        400/TH400
    			  clark@abu.dseg.ti.com

     The careful application of terror is also a form of communication.




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- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB6372.6F152960--

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 11:37:01 -0300
Subject: Re: Not so 'Power Windows'

Mike.Coccagna@ns.kis.net wrote:
> 
> I am having a problem with my power windows - they take quite a while
> to close (over a minute sometimes :-(  ).  
> Thanks for the help.
> 
> Mike
> '91 W-40 Quad442

Mike:

I'm confident that lubrication; or at least binding is the problem.  
Take off the door panels and the moisture barrier.  you should see the 
tracks and the sliders or rollers that work from the window mechanisms 
on those tracks.  Check for any broken plastic parts, missing mounting 
screws, or broken welds.  Repair all of these & then clean & lubricate 
all of the moving surfaces with white lithium grease or non-dripping 
wheel bearing grease.  Try the windows out and then reassemble.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Ken <rottin@en.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 15:36:05 -0300
Subject: Block ID

I'm trying to ID the engine in my 67 442.  I cant find any stamp on the oil fill 
tube.  The numbers cast into the block are 389244-D.  The heads are "C" castings.
Is this enuff info to determin if the engine is the original?

And, has anyone out there tried the "493cid olds/buick stroker combo"?  Was it all 
that and more? :)

Ken

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 16:41:43 -0300
Subject: Today's misc.

> First Chris says:
> >   "Runs good"
> > -If you don't mind the coolant & oil mixing and overheating due to the crack
ed
> > head and/or block. Oh, and that std-size piston in a factory 0.010" oversize
> > bore might be a bit noisy. Or maybe it had 6:1 compression from the
> > short-stroke crank that was installed, cut the HP in half...
>  like that.
>
> Then Chris says:
> >I have, coming to Lansing real soon, a "good running" [no, really!] 330-4V
> >engine with trans, 1966 vintage. Anyone interested? It needs a good home. Run
> >& goes.
>
> Don't ever go into sales buddy! ;-)
>                  Pat Clark

Hey, I added a "no, really" to my claim. I have had a ride in the Buick that
this engine came from- it does indeed kick butt. Hey, Bryce, others, this
engine is REPUTED to be a Police Car motor... [another definition to add to the
list?]- are there any clues to look for that might confirm or deny this? dist'r
is gone in favor of HEI, RACovers appear to have originally been BLUE- a key?
  Has typical '68-9 "J" intake. Oh, that carb is not Edelbrock, it's a Holley
spread bore double pumper, but not conv. Holley design, it has a separate air
horn/ top like a Qjet sorta. Nice & new anyhow.

> Subject: 1968 (junkyard) Toro found

Excellent prospect for any of y'all with the time/ $ to save this one... I have
the missing brake parts, etc.! -chris-

> Must have been the ruggedly handsome guy wearing it that caused all the
> offers...
> Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Maybe it was because I was constantly on the move...

> daily basis.  I think we should all give him that thanks and
> appreciation for the work that he's doing in making all of this
> outstanding information flow possible.  THANKS, GREG!

Indeed... btw, the new JWO does indeed have a follow-up article and even shows
Bryce's web page contents page!  didn't have time to read the article last
nite, but there it is! -Chris-

> pulled it out - it was a JC Whitney deal - we found that underneath it
> in the front seats, they had left the old carpet in and just glued the
> other over it.  They hadn't even cleaned the carpet first.  Being a

Another definition to add to the list:
  "New carpet"
- -And we may, or may not, have acutally removed the old stuff before putting it
in!

> What's so surprising about this is that we bought the car from a
> classic car dealer who said that they do their own repair work ( did
> see a couple of Hemis that they were refurbing - beautiful - one

Oh, boy, wonder what sins they are committing there?

> >> I do: Your insurance lady is an idiot.  :-)
> >There's probably a more polite way to point that out to her [the idiot, uh,
> >insurance lady]...
>
> Well... Perhaps I was a little cranky

Doesn't bother ME any, but I haven't had much success pointing out to idiots
whose job it is to serve me exactly how stupid they are. If possible, avoid the
issue, or get another person to serve you. If she asks what kind of car it is,
say "I dunno, but the VIN is..."  Still boild down to the customer oughta be
right, and if you wish to call your car a Cutlass Special Custom Cruiser
Holiday Vista Dragon then that's what they ought a put down there.

> From: Chip <chip@in-motion.net>
> Hi there. I have a 72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible anyone else out there
> have one that they are working on??  I have owned mine for about 10yrs
> now and I am just getting into collecting all the small parts that I
> need to bring it back to original.
> Later
> Chip
> 72 Cutlass Convertible

Welcome! Get a Hemming's Motor News, a Chassis Service Manual, maybe an
Assembly Manual... -Chris-

> From: JJF97@uno.cc.geneseo.edu
>
> this is my first time  sending a message, and i'm building a "hot rod"
> out of a 47 olds.....  2dr. fastback.
>
> i found and engine,  v-8.  i believe its an olds 260 or 280, something like
> that, from a 1981 cutlass,  the trans is good, the rear axle is good.

Presumably a 260 V8... learn to find the ID code on the cylinder head, oil fill
tube, etc. Collect #'s, we can tellyou what it is. -Chris-
  What ratio rear end? You MUST know this, since economy is important to you.

> will the transmission from this small v-8 be able to bolt on to a
> small block olds 350?

Oh, yes. Why, you have a 350 on hand, too?

> also, does anyone know or could give suggestions how  i should / could
> mount the engine/transmission in the '47?

Hmmmm... trans mount from an old car like pre-77, that had a trans crossmember
with dual humps for dual xst to pass thru... Toro motor mounts bolt nicely to
the front of any Olds engine... Or conventional side-o-block motor mounts with
corresponding pad welded to the car frame at the appropriate place.

> (p.s.  i know a 455 would be nice in the car, but i would also like it to be
> pretty good on gas!   =)    )
> - --jj

Well, there's a LOT of choices in between the 260 and the 455, and even a 455
can get pretty respectable mileage, with say a 2.56 ratio rear end.
- -Chris-

> PS.  Want to hear another story about buying a car in the South because
> they don't rust here or they are so much better carted for?

Oh, my, yes! -Chris-

> >and, get the number off the oil fill tube, too.
>
> What can this number tell you?  The service manuals say they are sequential
> nmbers oly but can you estimate date of manufacture?  Anything else?
> Bob

Well, mostly, the year of issue of the engine, from that 1st digit. Just might
as well know ALL the easily obtained numbers, eh?

> The '67 liners are not being re-popped.  Had to fix 'em.
>
> How you ask?  So that's what I did, ask that is, I and was told to check out
> a motorcycle shop - they repair plastic every day.  Did so, they welded in a
> new piece, filled the other one and fogged the whole shebang in, as they
> said, "nuts on" red.  They look good as new and are still rare as hens teeth.
> Bob

How deucedly clever! MC shop! Heh... so, hen's teeth, is that more or less rare
than say a forged 455 crank? How does that compare to a real Solid Main Web 403
block? :-)

> One of our culb members has used them for helpin detailing his '70 W-30.
>  They did a fairly good job.  I understand it wasn't cheap. BTW this same
> fellow is on his 2nd '70 W-30.  Seems some Kuwaiti guys made him an offer he
> couldn't refuse one night.  Apparently they come to FL (and elsewhere  I am
> sure),buy up american muscle cars, ship 'em to Kuwait and then run the pee
> out of 'em in the desert. Blow 'em - who cares, take a trip to the US and buy
> some more.

So, Kuwaiti boneyards might be the real killer place to find Olds parts, eh?
Fiberglass hood, uh, $200 for you, American!

> Alex - the fellow who sold it to them, will not sell his current ride, he
> says, for any price again. Too hard finding another good car and what they
> do/did to this other makes him want to cry.  Me too.
> Bob  Handren  OCA #7728

Yeah, that's ethics, to refuse an absurdly high offer on the grounds that the
buyer has no business owning such a work. Let 'em use C*evies for such fun...

- --Ford Truck stalling intermittently at idle--
> I have a friend with the same problem, also.  If you figured it out, please
> send the answer this way also.

Have been told it's the "idle motor" an $80 part, since I have no idea what one
looks like, I haven't fiddled with it. I did get Ford diagnostics from a list
member, but haven't found my analog meter yet, to implement them. I replace the
O2 sensor as a matter of course, no diff. -Chris-

> V8's.  I read an old magazine article arguing that properly built, the
> TH-200 was actually better than the 350 because it has lighter internals
> and etc.  But why bother when the 350 is so much more readily available
> and stout?

I concur. The 455 I just picked up has a TH350 behind it, surviving nicely
thanks... street-performance built, chirps very nicely.
- -Chris-

> Also of interest; I was walking through the yard on the other side of town,
> only one that has cars older than 79, found a ton of 74-77 Cutlasses and
> Supremes, a 2-Door '67 Delta with a C-headed 2barrel 425 in good shape, a 76
> Supreme with full buckets and console, and in the back row, a 75 Hurst Olds.

Holy COW, Jason, there ya go, GET THAT H/O!   And a '67 425! man, where is this
place!? Bucket seats, consoles, still there?

> I asked the yard owner about the last one. Seems the car had been impounded
> by the cops, had sat for 3 months unclaimed, and cops junked it. This car had
> been for Sale in January in a parking lot, should have gotten it.  T-tops are
> still good, though I don't know if they've been taken since I was last there,
> the Swivels, console, and dual gate left within a week of its arrival, as did
> all the emblems,  has a 75 455 in it, FE-2 suspension and 15x7 SSIII's.
> Anyone interested? DrkSole

That, plus my brother's parts-car '75 H/O oughta make one complete fine unit...
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 17:53:03 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: FAQ problem 

Maybe it is the long line lengths.  It's ok at this time (2:48pm CST).

Aaron, what is your e-mail address?  I'll try sending it to you.  Do you 
have access to pkunzip?  Otherwise I'll send the non-compressed version.

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    "Oldsmobile - powerful roadsters with big V8s"
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu

- -----------------------
>Anyone tried to access the FAQ through Shawn Twomey's homepage lately?  I've
>tried twice now through AOL internet connection and my computer freezes when
>loading the first few KBites of the text file.  This computer rarely freezes
>so I suspect the problem is on the other end of the line.  Shawn?    
>
>-Aaron

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 12:07:07 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: hello....

Daniel Gulino wrote:
> 
> 
> >
> >I think the 200 will have the word "METRIC" stamped on the pan, and the
> >350 won't.
> 
> To bolster this point, I once had a 1977 Chevy Caprice, and it had a TH200
> transmission, and the word METRIC was stamped in big bold letters
> on the pan.
> 
> Dan
> 
> 
> ************************************************

Dan:

Isn't METRIC Latin for something ominous.  It's been a long time since 
that class in high school.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 17:17:00 -0300
Subject: RE: Block ID

I've tried 2 of them and they are quite the unit. They sure don't need much in the way of revs to get a vehicle moving.

- ----------
From: 	Ken[SMTP:rottin@en.com]
Sent: 	Wednesday, June 26, 1996 2:36 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Block ID

I'm trying to ID the engine in my 67 442.  I cant find any stamp on the oil fill 
tube.  The numbers cast into the block are 389244-D.  The heads are "C" castings.
Is this enuff info to determin if the engine is the original?

And, has anyone out there tried the "493cid olds/buick stroker combo"?  Was it all 
that and more? :)

Ken

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 17:25:15 -0300
Subject: Box stock 442 went 11.72

 	I mentioned a couple months ago about a stock class drag car I put =
together for a customer. This car has gone 11.72 at 112 mph with =
virtually all stock components.  I personally can not believe that a =
stock Olds could be coaxed to this sort of level. The first time down =
the strip all our jaws dropped. Just thought I'd mention this for anyone =
that may be interested.

- ----------
Chris Urban

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 17:47:10 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: hello.... 

At 12:07 PM 6/26/96 -0300, you wrote:

>Dan:
>
>Isn't METRIC Latin for something ominous.  It's been a long time since 
>that class in high school.
>
>Bill Culp
>Decatur, Alabama
>


Good point!

I don't know.  It usually means my wrenches won't fit.   :)


Dan



************************************************
Daniel A. Gulino
Associate Professor and Graduate Chairman
Department of Chemical Engineering
Ohio University
Athens, Ohio  45701-2979
(614) 593-1495
(614) 593-0873 (fax)
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://www.ent.ohiou.edu/che/faculty/gulino.html
************************************************

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 16:51:23 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: hello.... 

>>Isn't METRIC Latin for something ominous.  It's been a long time since 
>>that class in high school.
>
>I don't know.  It usually means my wrenches won't fit.   :)

The official answer to that is you're supposed to wedge a dime into the
gap between the flats of the nut/bolt and the open-ended wrench that's
slightly too big to grip.

The unofficial answer is you use a smaller socket and a bigger hammer.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Fred carrado jr." <fc227@connix.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 17:52:36 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: hello....

Scott David Ballentine wrote:
> 
> Excerpts from oldsmail: 26-Jun-96 Re[2]: hello.... by "Tom Lentz"@teknon.com
> >      I remember trying to figure out what kind of tranny it was, the 200
> >      and 350 are almost identical externally (there are ways to tell, but
> >      it's hard when it's in the car and covered with grease)....
> 
> I think the 200 will have the word "METRIC" stamped on the pan, and the
> 350 won't.  A long long time ago I decided to change my tranny fluid in
> my car (80 Cutlass, 260).  Somebody told me that the 200 was the only
> transmission I could have in the car for that year/model/engine.  I get
> to the parts store, tell them what I've got, and they ask which trans
> I've got - the book lists two transmissions - the 200 and the 350.
> Anyway, I lucked out - I've got the TH350.  Anyway, I hope this helps.
> 
>     -Scott Ballentine
>      sb7k@andrew.cmu.edu
>      Carnegie Mellon University
>      School of Computer Science
I may be wrong , But I belive that there is a T-350 behind all the v-8's 
from the factory. ,(that's what A local tranny guy told me). t-200 
behind the v-6's (from the factory) , My 1980 olds with it orginal 
engine(260), had a t-350 behind it . (IT now has a turbo v-6 in the car 
& a t-350 tranny living happly behind it & I do drag race it.)

 The bolt pattern is differant on the t-350 and the 200's.

 Just be sure to look , before you start to service.
- -- 
FREDS PHOTO & VIDEO REPAIR (OWNER / ELETRONIC TECH).

1980 OLDS CUTLASS POWERED BY A BUICK TURBO V-6
LEBANON VALLEY HEAVY 227.

" BUT OFFICER, IT ONLY A SIX CLYLINDER."

 486DX(120mhz)


gods speed , fred

------------------------------

From: "Shawn M. Twomey" <stwom@ctp.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 18:29:26 -0300
Subject: Grounding problem solved 

The ground that was causing all of my difficulties was the exact same one
that caused the symptoms the FIRST time I encountered them.  Imagine that.
The first time, I started having all these electrical demons as soon as I
picked the car up from the tranny shop.  I took it back, turns out they had
broken the ground strap that goes from the tranny case to the back of the
firewall.  When I started having problems again, I checked to make sure the
strap was still attached, but didn't make sure it was actually grounding
properly.  It wasn't.  Pulled it off the firewall, scraped all the crud off
it, then sanded that area of the firewall real good-removing all goop and
paint and what not.  Re-attached, and voila.

You guys were correct, the console light problems are a separate deal, but
that one's a piece of cake to trouble-shoot now.

Thanks for all the help,

__________________________________________________________________________
Shawn M. Twomey     |  "No!  Try NOT!  Do, or do not.  There is no try."
stwom@ctp.com       |  -Yoda
__________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

From: <tc75918@hpr169.mdhc.mdc.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 19:01:01 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: hello....

> 
> Scott David Ballentine wrote:
> > 
> I may be wrong , But I belive that there is a T-350 behind all the v-8's 
> from the factory. ,(that's what A local tranny guy told me). t-200 

Alas, not so I'm afraid (for the 80's anyways).  My 85 Salon has a 307
and the T200 Metric thingie.  Damn I wish it had the 200-4R (or R4 or
whatever).  Anybody know what one goes for?  Would I be better off 
getting a core and having it worked over, or getting a newly rebuilt
one?

- --Dan

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 19:16:00 -0300
Subject: Re: hello....

At 11:47 PM 6/25/96 -0300, Paul R. K. Kuromoto wrote:
>Agreed. From what I hear, the TH-200 was RECALLED by GM and replaced by 
>the much stronger TH-350.  V6's killed it prematurely, not to mention the 
>V8's.  I read an old magazine article arguing that properly built, the 
>TH-200 was actually better than the 350 because it has lighter internals 
>and etc.  But why bother when the 350 is so much more readily available 
>and stout?

I could see the TH-200 being better once beefed up. I looked into getting
one race prepped and it was a fortune. The one thing I do miss are the gear
ratios of the TH-200. The TH-350 does not launch the car as hard.


Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio					z28cfi@gwis.com
1988 Camaro IROC-Z/28 5.0 bowtie power			jlabay@phoenix.kent.edu
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25 5.7 rocket power
H/OCA member #0278A

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 22:18:12 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: hello....

Andrew C. Green wrote:
> 
> The official answer to that is you're supposed to wedge a dime into the
> gap between the flats of the nut/bolt and the open-ended wrench that's
> slightly too big to grip.
> 
> The unofficial answer is you use a smaller socket and a bigger hammer.

Geez, I just love those highly technical answers!     ;)


The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 22:16:52 -0300
Subject: Re: Grounding problem solved

Shawn M. Twomey wrote:
> 
> The ground that was causing all of my difficulties was the exact same 
> one that caused the symptoms the FIRST time I encountered them.  
> Imagine that.

> Pulled it off the firewall, scraped all the crud off it, then sanded 
> that area of the firewall real good-removing all goop and paint and 
> what not.  Re-attached, and voila.

Excellent!  Glad you got it straightened out, Shawn.


The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 21:15:57 -0300
Subject: Re: Box stock 442 went 11.72

> 	I mentioned a couple months ago about a stock class drag car I put 
>together for a customer. This car has gone 11.72 at 112 mph with virtually 
>all stock components.  I personally can not believe that a stock Olds 
>could be coaxed to this sort of level. The first time down the strip all 
>our jaws dropped. Just thought I'd mention this for anyone that may be 
>interested.


Ummmmm, yea, my jaws dropped too... This isn't April... right?

1970 W-30's are/were around 14.3 seconds in the quarter at 100 mph.

1968 H/O's are/were running 14 flat at 97 mph.

How much weight did you take out of that car in order to obtain those 
kind of numbers?


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Michael R. Hall                                  Ortonville, Michigan
E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com
The Oldsmobile Stable:    
     1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
     1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...
         Brought to you by a Apple Power Macintosh 7100/80
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 13:46:27 -0300
Subject: Re[4]: hello.... 

     I'm not sure what one goes for, but it depends upon what you want to 
     do with it.  Just for driving around, get a refurbished one.  For 
     performance use I'd get a core and have it built up right, use good 
     quality bands, upgrade to a 10-vane pump, and install a shift kit.  
     This will give a decently strong tranny, if you want it race ready, be 
     prepared to spend a lot more for a hardened input shaft and all the 
     other tweaks a place like Art Carr would do.
     
     Of course, the installation and integration with the computer for the 
     overdrive control and torque converter lockup would be the trickiest 
     part.
     
     Tom L.
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Re[2]: hello....
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    6/26/96 3:46 PM

Damn I wish it had the 200-4R (or R4 or whatever).  Anybody know what 
one goes for?  Would I be better off getting a core and having it 
worked over, or getting a newly rebuilt one?

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 21:25:13 -0300
Subject: RE: Box stock 442 went 11.72

	Well we took out the back seat, carpet, aluminum wheels, fiberglass =
hood, W-30 intake, and 5 gal gas ( of course the role cage put back some =
of that weight). Car weighed in at over 3600 lbs. The secret to this car =
is that it hooks incredibly hard. 4.11 gear, 9 inch slick, and 4500 =
stall.


Ummmmm, yea, my jaws dropped too... This isn't April... right?

1970 W-30's are/were around 14.3 seconds in the quarter at 100 mph.

1968 H/O's are/were running 14 flat at 97 mph.

How much weight did you take out of that car in order to obtain those=20
kind of numbers?


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Michael R. Hall                                  Ortonville, Michigan
E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com
The Oldsmobile Stable:   =20
     1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
     1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...
         Brought to you by a Apple Power Macintosh 7100/80
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 22:00:27 -0300
Subject: PWR Ant. and Stuff...was Re: Big Block 403s, and ignorant car

>  
> >nice 25th anniversary Daytona edition T/A with the same friend.  The 
> >sales guy said it had a small block...Well, not exactly, but I guess 
> >that turbo V6 *does* have a physically small block.  But still... :)
> >	
> >			Scott
> >		1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98
> >
> Actually the 20th Anniversary T/A had the Turbo V6, the 25th does have the
> small block LT1 350. I know...I am getting picky here...too much time on my
> hands:) :) :)
> 

	Uh, thats what I ment...it was a typo.  Yea thats it. :)

On a completly different note, I removed my dead power antenea from the 
'60 last night.  What a pain!!  It was one of thoes deals where it looks 
like the body of the car was actually welded around this one single 
part!  Anyway, I dismanteled (dismembered?) the thing, and found that the 
thing that raises and lowers the mast was missing.  Not just broken, but 
completly missing.  Weird.  It looks like the thing that did the 
raising/lowering was some sort of spring steel wire...kind of like a 
a Stanley tape measure.  Can't really be sure though, since I've never 
had one of 
these apart before.  Anybody know of a way to fix this sort of thing?  Or 
do I just need to add it to my "Things That Are Probibly Impossible To 
Find At Any Reasonable Price" list?  Olds USA had rebuilt units for 
something like $250!!  Ouch!  Sorry guys, a little out of my price 
range.  Oh, and the mast is busted off too, but the motor works fine (I 
could hear it whirring away while it was in the car).  Any ideas?
	
	
			Scott
		1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 22:26:58 -0300
Subject: Re: Box stock 442 went 11.72

I've watched pure stock cars go much faster than when new for years.  The air 
must just be thinner than when the car was new, or maybe it's just the new waxes 
or paint that reduces wind resistance.  Open it up, its not stock. 

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 18:10:30 -0300
Subject: Re: PWR Ant. and Stuff...was Re: Big Block 403s, and ignorant car

Scott R Clark wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > >                   
> 
> On a completly different note, I removed my dead power antenea from the
> '60 last night.   Anybody know of a way to fix this sort of thing?  Or
> do I just need to add it to my "Things That Are Probibly Impossible To
> Find At Any Reasonable Price" list?  .  Oh, and the mast is busted off too, but the motor works fine (I
> could hear it whirring away while it was in the car).  Any ideas?
> 
> 
>                         Scott
>                 1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

Scott:

Why not get another at a swap meet.  I believe that they are the same 
with interchangable parts up into the late 60's.  My 1962 is the same as 
my 1968 & matches the 63 Grand Prix and some Buick ones that I have from 
the late 60's.  The only different parts are brackets and parts to match 
up to the fenders which are all interchangable.  They can be gotten 
around here for $10 to $25 in nice shape.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: "Karl Davlin" <ne1469@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 23:41:39 -0300
Subject: Re: Hello.....

Chip,

	I have a ''72 Cutlass that I've owned for 9 years....
	
						Karl

- ----------
> From: Chip <chip@in-motion.net>
> To: oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
> Subject: Hello.....
> Date: Tuesday, June 25, 1996 11:02 AM
> 
> Hi there. I have a 72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible anyone else out there 
> have one that they are working on??  I have owned mine for about 10yrs 
> now and I am just getting into collecting all the small parts that I 
> need to bring it back to original.
> 
> Later
> Chip
> 72 Cutlass Convertible
> 

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 00:53:30 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: hello.... 

At 07:01 PM 6/26/96 -0300, tc75918@hpr169.mdhc.mdc.com wrote:
>> 
>> Scott David Ballentine wrote:
>> > 
>> I may be wrong , But I belive that there is a T-350 behind all the v-8's 
>> from the factory. ,(that's what A local tranny guy told me). t-200 
>
My books show that the TH-350 was produced up to 1981.

>Alas, not so I'm afraid (for the 80's anyways).  My 85 Salon has a 307
>and the T200 Metric thingie.  Damn I wish it had the 200-4R (or R4 or
>whatever).  Anybody know what one goes for?  Would I be better off 
>getting a core and having it worked over, or getting a newly rebuilt
>one?

I would get a rebuilt one as long as it was a professional one. The gearing
on these tranny's are incredible. Much better that a TH-350.


Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio					z28cfi@gwis.com
1988 Camaro IROC-Z/28 5.0 bowtie power			jlabay@phoenix.kent.edu
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25 5.7 rocket power
H/OCA member #0278A

------------------------------

From: DrkSole@aol.com
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 00:51:41 -0300
Subject: All Makes Auto Farm 

>Subj:	Today's misc.
>Date:	96-06-26 15:46:01 EDT
>From:	wittchri@pilot.msu.edu (Chris Brown Witt)
>Sender:	oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>Reply-to:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>To:	wittchri@pilot.msu.edu, oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>> Also of interest; I was walking through the yard on the other side of
town,
>> only one that has cars older than 79, found a ton of 74-77 Cutlasses and
>> Supremes, a 2-Door '67 Delta with a C-headed 2barrel 425 in good shape, a
>76
>> Supreme with full buckets and console, and in the back row, a 75 Hurst
>Olds.
>Holy COW, Jason, there ya go, GET THAT H/O!   And a '67 425! man, where is
>this
>place!? Bucket seats, consoles, still there?
>> I asked the yard owner about the last one. Seems the car had been
impounded
>> by the cops, had sat for 3 months unclaimed, and cops junked it. This car
>>had
>> been for Sale in January in a parking lot, should have gotten it.  T-tops
>>are
>> still good, though I don't know if they've been taken since I was last
>there,
>> the Swivels, console, and dual gate left within a week of its arrival, as
>>did
>> all the emblems,  has a 75 455 in it, FE-2 suspension and 15x7 SSIII's.
>> Anyone interested? DrkSole
>That, plus my brother's parts-car '75 H/O oughta make one complete fine
>unit...
>--
>Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
>wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

The name of the place is All Makes Auto Farm phone is 1-(515)-265-3023
Open 7-days a week. Address is 800 SE 32nd St.
                                                Des Moines, IA 50317
The buckets and console are still there, though I only saw one or two
Cutlasses with buckets and consoles, lot's of mid-70's Buicks, Ch*vies,
Pontiacs, and others.  Tons of Lecars and Pacers too..:)
DrkSole
73 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: Bob Valentine <ravalent@liii.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 01:46:19 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Oil pressure gauge ergonomics

On Wed, 26 Jun 1996, Andrew C. Green wrote:

> Personally, I always wanted to think of some use for the "WATER IN FUEL"
> and "WAIT" indicators that came with my '82 but were only used (obviously)
> on Diesel cars, of which mine was not.  :-)

   Personally, I'd hook the WAIT indicator to the gas pedal.  At WOT, 
have it come on...  should have been mandatory on V6 cars.  ;^>

> >     buzzer though to tell me "Hey stupid, look at the gauge quick!".

   I remember a flamefest on the old hotrod list about this.   Consensus 
was that both are the best setup.   Light will be seen quicker than a 
gauge, but a gauge is more useful.   

> >     What ~were~ they thinking (smoking?) when the GM engineers arranged 
> >     the gauges like that?  It's like they never even bothered to try to 
> >     actually USE the car they designed.

    Same goes for the choke/oil light thing.   What in the hell do these 
two things have to do with each other?

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                    --> ravalent@liii.com  <--

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 06:38:13 -0300
Subject: RE: Box stock 442 went 11.72

I can assure you this one is stock. The only thing I've modified is the =
ignition advance curve. The heads are not ported (although a 3 angle =
valve job is permitted), W-30 cam and thats about it. This car was built =
to run in a stock class eliminator and is inspected regularly for any =
cheating.

- ----------
From: 	mefco@sprynet.com[SMTP:mefco@sprynet.com]
Sent: 	Wednesday, June 26, 1996 9:26 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Re: Box stock 442 went 11.72

I've watched pure stock cars go much faster than when new for years.  =
The air=20
must just be thinner than when the car was new, or maybe it's just the =
new waxes=20
or paint that reduces wind resistance.  Open it up, its not stock.=20

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 09:00:55 -0300
Subject: Speedo Gears -- How?  Where?

The day I bought Big Red, the previous owner told me that the speedometer
read "a little on the high side", ever since he swapped out the 2-speed
Hydramatic and put in the TH350 (attached to the 350) from a '73 Cutlass.

Sure enough, as I made the 50 mile drive home, I tried to keep the speed
no higher than 60 mph (it hadn't been driven in 4 years, after all), and
it sure seemed s-l-o-w.  This was confirmed by my bro-in-law, following
me in a brandy-new Trofeo that Oldsmobile gave him for passing the GM Master
Tech (AKA Jedi Master GoodWrench :) ) test.  He said that I was driving
around 50 mph.

Well, I don't put too many miles on Big Red ( < 7K in 4 years ), and my
wife sort of likes the concept that the speedo reads higher than it actually
is -- p'haps I'll drive slower? :) -- but I wouldn't mind putting in the
proper speedo gear; after all, if the speed reads high, the odometer also turns
faster than should.

Does anyone out here in "Oldsmo-phile Land" know:

How:   Do I determine the *right* gear to use?

Where: I can get such a gear?

Book Titles/Knowledge & Parts Sources Greatly appreciated!



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'88 Cadillac Brougham, a.k.a. 'Big Blue' -- Olds 307 Powered!!
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 09:16:46 -0300
Subject: Re: Speedo Gears , and that 330 Chris Has

> Sure enough, as I made the 50 mile drive home, I tried to keep the speed
> no higher than 60 mph (it hadn't been driven in 4 years, after all), and
> it sure seemed s-l-o-w.  This was confirmed by my bro-in-law, following
> me in a brandy-new Trofeo that Oldsmobile gave him for passing the GM Master
> Tech (AKA Jedi Master GoodWrench :) ) test.  He said that I was driving
> around 50 mph.

I should've pointed out that Oldsmobile let him use the Trofeo for 1 month...

- -- They ain't *that* generous! :)

Chris, my interest is really piqued by that comment you made about the 330.
D'you think it's possible that the owner might find a way to transport it
back east?  It sounds like a better way to go thatn to rebuild the basket 330
I have... plus, I can use the extras I've been collecting for it (a new
Edelbrock Performer 350 manifold, f'r instance)....



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'88 Cadillac Brougham, a.k.a. 'Big Blue' -- Olds 307 Powered!!
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 12:55:40 -0300
Subject: Re: All Makes Auto Farm

DrkSole@aol.com wrote:
>
>  Tons of Lecars and Pacers too..:)


                         * WARNING * WARNING *

                   * NON-OLDSMOBILE COMMENTS FOLLOW *

A guy here in Tampa removed the rear glass and cut the roof off from the 
pillars back on a Pacer.  Might have benn a pretty goofy car but it makes 
a pretty cool little pickup truck.


The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 12:49:50 -0300
Subject: Re: PWR Ant. and Stuff

Scott R Clark wrote:
> 
> It was one of thoes deals where it looks like the body of the car was 
> actually welded around this one single part!

Automotive engineers should be forced to work in a service department for 
a mimimum of two years before they're allowed to design anything!

> Anybody know of a way to fix this sort of thing?

Replacement masts are available for many power antennas though finding 
one for a '60 maybe a bit difficult.  You might try taking the power 
(motor) unit to a dealer/parts store/junkyard and see if you can find one 
that matches up.


The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 10:38:49 -0300
Subject: Re: Speedo Gears -- How?  Where?

You can still buy the gears from GM.  Tire size could also have something to do 
with your speedo reading wrong.

------------------------------

From: clark@sh28.dseg.ti.com (Pat Clark 952-3776)
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 12:28:24 -0300
Subject: Spark Plugs

I have got another Stupid Question (tm). How can you tell (by inspection) when
Bosch Platinum Plugs are worn? Its easy to tell on a standard plug, but these
look entirely different. I have a set that were in when I bought the car and
I have no idea how many miles are on them (the truck itself has 83K). Any ideas?

 				Pat Clark
    				 69 442
    			        400/TH400
    			  clark@abu.dseg.ti.com

     The careful application of terror is also a form of communication.

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #215
********************************

