To:	oldsmobile-digest @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET @ ABTLAB
Date:	08/08/96 06:11:38 PM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #260


oldsmobile-digest         Thursday, 8 August 1996      Volume 01 : Number 260


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 18:02:26 -0300
Subject: test...

This is just a test...have only recieved 9 messages today...
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 18:19:01 -0300
Subject: Proportioning valve

OK, I got my test message back, guess I wasn't bumped from the list.
Everyone must be in Atlanta.  Anyway, I'm looking for a proportioning valve
for my 4-wheel drum brake 69 Cutlass.  Anybody got one?
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: lacey@dsea.com (Dan Lacey)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 20:18:40 -0300
Subject: Re: Proportioning valve 

>OK, I got my test message back, guess I wasn't bumped from the list.
>Everyone must be in Atlanta.  Anyway, I'm looking for a proportioning valve
>for my 4-wheel drum brake 69 Cutlass.  Anybody got one?
>--
>Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
>dpauliso@metrolink.net

Summit has a variable proportioning valve on sale for $40!!! Check out
their home page...

I am thinking about buying one myself. Any reason not to?? Most of these
run about $80+!!!

It would sound too good to be true, but, Summit is a big retailer, and they
might just be trying to get rid of them...


*************************************************************************
* THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY  *       Dan Lacey ( lacey@dsea.com )        *
*                           *       Dainippon Screen Eng. of America    *
* LEFT BLANK                *       3700 W. Segerstrom Ave.             *
*                           *       Santa Ana, CA. 92704                *
*************************************************************************

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 14:37:00 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: FW: Diesels (was Legislation) 

     I *knew* I should have gotten that 260-diesel option in my '84 
     Hurst/Olds!
     
     Anyone actually driven one of those 260-disels and care to admit it?

______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: Re: FW: Diesels (was Legislation)
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    8/6/96 1:28 PM


>>Sure, the exhuast LOOKS bad, coming out all sooty, but its 
>>mostly just carbon and water, correct?
     
>Absolutely correct, Shawn !
>
>Carbon, water vapor, and CO2 only...you won't get carbon monxide poisoning 
from
>a diesel, either...but I  still  like my oldsmobile !!
>
>Frank Boerger
     

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 14:36:56 -0300
Subject: Re: 1980 442 W-30 price??? 

     Hmm... and I didn't even know there _was_ a 1980 442!  It's possible, 
     and '80 was the last year for the 350 so that might make it a bit more 
     valuable.  I'm a bit leery on the W30 emblems though, sounds like 
     something that they added on.  I'd find some references before 
     committing to this car!
     
     Tom L.


______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: 1980 442 W-30 price???
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    8/5/96 9:27 PM


Tomorrow I am going to go take a closer look at a 1980 442 W-30 that I saw 
on a local used car lot. There was no price on it. Interior wise thecar is 
in great shape, minor wear. The car looks freshly painted, but with a small 
dent in the front fender. The frame is beginning to show wear, alot of 
surface rust. I know that 1980 frames go bad. We have had 3 in the towyard 
break at the rear 1/3 due to rust when picked up with a forklift. There are 
no t-tops, has a/c, buckets, guages, console, hurst gold interior, white 
with gold striping and W-30 logos on the front fender edge and 442 emblems 
on the rear of the front fenders near the door. It has the Rocket 350.  What 
is this car worth? What should I offer? I am going with the intention of 
offering my 88 Z/28 and $1000 for it....tops. I can't find any prices 
anywhere to help me judge. Thanks and could you all reply by Wed at noon, I 
am leaving then to see it....ok pretty please:):):)
     
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com)
1988 Camaro IROC-Z/28...the rebuilt salvage car.... 
(an 82 Z/28 in the body of an 88 IROC with 92 Z/28 ground effects) 
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25....H/OCA #0278A
     
     

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 14:36:47 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: The Idiots Among Us.... (long) 

     
>For my opinion the BMW-drivers are the worst of all. Propably those BMW:s are 
>so handy that it is FUN to irritate.
     
     Over here in the States we call them Mustangs  :-)
     BTW, anybody read the bit about the Rustangs in the latest JWO?  My 
     non-car-appreciating SO wanted to know what I was laughing so hard 
     about so she read it and got a big kick too.
     
>It's sad that these maniacs can convert a beautiful sunny day into pure hell 
>and do that without even getting caught.
     
     Well ocassionally they get caught.  Like the idiots in the Toyota that 
     threw a beer can at me and some friends a few years ago.  We chased 
     them hoping to get a plate or something.  They got away mostly because 
     they were just sheerly insane drivers, partly because we were in my 
     friend's Corolla.  After we lost them about 10 minutes later we passed 
     them on the side of the road, pulled over by a cop who was in the 
     process of pulling a few 6-packs of beer out of the back seat.  Of 
     course we had to wave!
     
>The best thing to do (I suppose) is to ignore those vegetables totally. 
Anyway,
>what can we do.
     
     Yeah, that's what I usually do.  Let them go on their way and try not 
     to let it bother me.  If they look dangerous (either the driving style 
     or the driver himself) I give them lots of space (behind me if 
     possible).  Although I have reported a few obviously-drunk 
     rebounding-off-the-curb type drivers on the cell phone before.

------------------------------

From: Chris and Robin <cya442@erols.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 22:51:55 -0300
Subject: Re: Suspension questions

Blaine Sanders 5483 wrote:
> 
> I need to redo my whole front end suspension.  Who makes an excellent
> quality poly-graphite bushing kit for a decent price?  Is bushing
> replacement a difficult proceedure?  Can it be done by one person that
> has never done it before?  Thanks.
> 
> -Blaine S.
> '72 Cutlass Supreme

I rebuilt the front end on my 68 442 using poly-graphite bushings from 
Perfomance Suspension in Arizona, worked out great and the price was the 
lowest around without compromising quality!  There phone # is 
(602)272-4085. 

The procedure is pretty simple providing you have the right tools, ie. 
spring compressor, a separator tool for the ball joints and so on. Most 
of them can be rented for free from a parts store such as Super Trak.

Any other questions fell free to ask.

Chris M.
'68 442

------------------------------

From: Michael Brady <drolds19@mail.idt.net>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 02:59:20 -0300
Subject: Re: Union, IL -- Messy report follows

Andrew C. Green wrote:
> 
> Well, it's been one of those days so this is going to be purely
> stream-of-consciousness writing just so I can get this thing out
> the door:
> 
> Union, IL is the home of the Illinois Railway Museum, a huge place
> in the middle of the farm fields with a wild collection of old
> rail transportation: steam engines, Diesels, urban transit, streetcars,
> you name it. Lots of it is in running order, some downright mint, and
> they have about nine miles (I think it is) of track running through the
> countryside on which they give rides. This place is _big_; they use some
> of the restored electric streetcars on a circumferential track around the
> place with about four stops so you can get around to see it all. Some of
> their trains are frequently used in movies... um... "A League of Their
> Own" is the only title I can think of right now... D'Oh!!! I had a list
> around here somewhere... Fantastic train: An all stainless-steel Silver
> Zephyr from the early '50's: engine and five cars, all working order,
> just stunning. All working; you could get on and relax in 1950's air
> conditioned comfort, press a button, recline your seat, close the blinds
> and just snooze. The tail car is an observation car with individual,
> rotating, reclining wingback chairs. Some people are probably still
> in there.  :-)
> 
> So anyway, yesterday was the sixth annual Transportation Day, at which
> they invited clubs for just about anything that rolled on wheels to come
> over and show off. Interspersed with Oldsmobile clubs and certain more
> disreputable brands such as Ch*vy were real antique Model Ts, Model As,
> big trucks, motorcycles, military equipment, etc. I shot a few pictures
> which I'll forward to Bryce for posting as soon as they're developed;
> I was pretty bad for taking notes but saw what I remember as a tri-power
> Starfire from around 1964 (raise your hand if I'm describing your car);
> a nice Fiesta convertible from what I'd guess to be about 1955, spotted
> and photographed from a train so I couldn't get closer at the time; an
> Olds Ninety-Eight from, oh, early '50's or so; and one or two others
> that I photographed, then forgot about. Will see what's on film. I did
> not see any specific Olds club signs, only the generic brand signs put
> out by the museum, so I can't say specifically which Olds club was there.
> But next year I'll be sure to give you all some advance warning so we can
> get together there.
> 
> Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
> Datalogics, Inc.
> 441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
> Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

 Andrew, i have gone to that show before, it's a nice one!! There was
 another show that several olds folks went to that day at the blackberry
 farm in aurora, it's a great setting for a car show, and it's free
 also!!!! There were many members of the illinois valley olds club at
 this show, the cars on hand included a 61' starfire, 65,67,69 4-4-2, 
 64 dynamic 88 convt, 68 cutlass s convt.74 hurst olds and get this, a
 1970 delta 88 convt. with a 3 speed stick!! one of only 2 made, a 64
 cutlass convt, a two tone green 56 super 88, there were a bunch of older
 model mustangs and a large group of GTO's. By the way there is an olds
 show at Dave Miller oldsmobile on sunday, august 18th in matteson, il.
 from 8:00 am to 3:00 pm. if you would like more info let me know
 Happy oldsmobiling!!

  Michael Brady 1969 4-4-2

------------------------------

From: spud@kudonet.com (Spud)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 01:12:15 -0300
Subject: [Fwd: 1936 BUICK] 

Although off topic, I thought someone might know someone that's interested.

>From: John Diehl <jhd@slip.net>
>Newsgroups: ba.forsale,
>Subject: 1936 BUICK
>
>1936 BUICK Roadmaster Has dual side mounts.  Partially dissasembled, 
>engine runs great.  Needs restoration.
>
>$2950.00
>
>PHONE BILL @ 408 287 7253
Spud     "Fart proudly."
'86 FXST   --Benjamin Franklin
'73 Delta 88
'79 LeBaron

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 03:02:04 -0300
Subject: Vanity plates for the idiots among us..... 

I have probably one of the simplest vanity plates on my '72 Vista Cruiser -
L OLDS - which stands for Lisa's Olds (or as my mother more wryly put it
"Loves Olds")  When I was at the DMV in CA signing up for it with the poker
faced civil servant, he thought it was a bit, well, plain.  He suggested my
initials - but I'd picked the palm trees & setting sun design which only
fits 6 characters.  I said "well, that would make it LMOLDS and I dont think
that sounds quite right".  He actually cracked a smile. 
As for the Idiots Among Us - when I encountered some recently in the VC I
was terrifically tempted to show them that old iron isnt dead iron and/or to
start playing the same games but, I had MY kids in the car & the Olds' are
worth more than satisfaction over morons.  But re-reading & memorizing the
message & replies was the best advertisement for a cell phone I have seen
yet.  The satisfaction TRULY would be to see the mother*** get caught.

Sincerely


Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 & '72 Vista Cruiser

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/lisa.htm

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 03:20:44 -0300
Subject: i must be going 

well, after a while on this list it saddens me that i must leave...my server
and various other time restaints are just getting to be too much...maybe
i'll be back, with a bravada and a 455
                        Zack

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 03:21:08 -0300
Subject: 

unsubscribe oldsmobile

------------------------------

From: ngomez@iadfw.net (Nick Gomez)
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:38:03 -0300
Subject: 1965 442 Codes? 

>      1RG
> ST   65-33837      LAN 7577   BODY
> TR   950-3         R-C        PAINT
>      0 825
>      4T

>From my 1965 Chassis Service Manual, it was built in Lansing. It's a
Cutlass F85 (with V8 engine) and it's the hardtop coupe. Target Red with a
Provincial White top? That's all I can decode, sorry. Take it easy...
Nick

      ------------------------------------------------------------------
      1965 Oldsmobile 98          TIP # 1048         Trade Live Concerts
      Dallas, Texas             MiSTie # 53344        Collect Hot Wheels
      ------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: kissrulz@gnn.com (Craig Dobbins)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 05:23:11 -0300
Subject: Re: Resto parts. 

Don't always believe everything you see in Brother's.  I purchase a "correct" 
# carb from a guy in Texas, his name is mark, business name "Specialized 
Investments", P.O. box 215, McQueeney, Texas, 78123, Phone - (210) 557-5377.  
This guy really knows what he's talking about when it comes to carbs.  If I 
would have purchased from Brother's (according to their catalog, at least) I 
would have would up with the "incorrect" carb for my car.  Brother's is 
pretty pricy on shipping too, but I do have to recommend their Olds 
Cutlass/442 car covers (79.00), for indoor storage at least.  Very nice and 
heavy, and made especially to fit our Olds' specifically.  Nice conforming 
fit.  But if anyone needs a carb, I would call Mike in a minute again if I 
had to, his knowledge, and SERVICE are the best, very friendly and helpful, 
no matter how many times you call back with questions.

                                                   Good Luck,
                                                    Craig Dobbins
                                                    '68 442 Convertable
>Date:		Tue, 6 Aug 1996 18:49:55 -0300
>From:	mike.blankenship@medaphis.com
>Sender:	oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>To:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>Subject:	Resto parts.
>
>
>I have ordered a couple of things from them. I ordered a blue interior
> seat kit,
>it took me 3 months to get, and a ram air hood screen, it took 5 weeks to
> get.
>They have used manifolds, and probably expensive.    
>
>Mike
>
>
>__________________________________________________________________________
>
>Anyone had any experience with Brothers Automotive?  They have quite
>a few resto parts that I haven't seen in any other catalogs (i.e. - NOS
>Dual Gate shifters/related parts, correct spec/# Q-Jet carbs, factory
>455 D. Exhaust manifolds, etc.)  Does anyone know about the quality of
>their resto parts?
>
>
>
>----- End Included Message -----
>
>

------------------------------

From: kissrulz@gnn.com (Craig Dobbins)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 05:40:28 -0300
Subject: Re: Resto Parts - CARBS! 

Not to mention their body parts are good, but need work before putting on.  
The quarter panels don't come with the rounded piece that comes up into and 
under the rear bumpers and need to be welded in 2 inches back from the door 
frame.  The fenders also need work too, but I'm not shure exactly what on 
these.  Boy, after reading that last note about the Q-jets they sell, I'm 
REALLY glad I didn't buy mine from them!

  Once again, anybody need a "correct" Q-Jet?:

                 Guy's name - "Mark"
                  Business - "Specialized Investments"
                  Address -   P.O. Box 215
                              McQueeney, Texas 78123
                  Phone -     (210) 557-5377

  I bought my Q-Jet from him, cost for just the carb (matching #'s) was $190, 
I then chose to have him send it to a guy he trusts and deal with a lot named 
Craig Woodruff in Youngstown Ohio.  He does a total Shoe restoration, ripping 
the carb totally apart, replating each piece with the original (in type and 
appearance) factory coating, replacing any jets or other parts that need it, 
replates the body so it looks pretty, block tests it, and blows it out if you 
so wish.  This cost me an additional $225.  Shipping is $15 for the entire 
trip - Total cost of $430, worth it to me since I have a matching #'s car and 
want to keep it that way.  You can even send you original throttle base to 
Craig (this has your date of production on it), like I did, to make your carb 
look totally original.  If you're lucky, Mark in Texas may have your original 
production date carb, but if not, like in my case, it's as easy as sending 
Craig your base for restoration (extra $15, big deal when your already 
spending $430), which he will then mount on it, and then send you back both 
bases.  If you only want YOUR base done and not the one on the carb from 
Mark, then there's no charge at all, I had both done.  I highly recommend 
both these guys.

                                                         Craig Dobbins
                                                          '68 442 convertable
>Date:		Tue, 6 Aug 1996 18:45:16 -0300
>From:	Nick DiGiovanni <ndigiova@direct.ca>
>Sender:	oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>To:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>Subject:	Re: Resto parts.
>
>At 06:27 PM 8/6/96 -0300, you wrote:
>>Anyone had any experience with Brothers Automotive?  They have quite
>>a few resto parts that I haven't seen in any other catalogs (i.e. - NOS
>>Dual Gate shifters/related parts, correct spec/# Q-Jet carbs, factory
>>455 D. Exhaust manifolds, etc.)  Does anyone know about the quality of
>>their resto parts?
>>
>I have seen their Dual Gate Shifters and they are slightly different than
> my
>original one.  They do not have the three screw holes to bolt the chrome to
>p
>plate and are thus slightly shorter than the original.  They also do not
>come with the chrome top plate.  That you would have to find somewhere else
>as nobody makes a reproduction of that..yet.  Also, their dual gate does
> not
>come with the two brackets (front and back) that support the unit to the
>floor.  I've seen the black shifter knob that they sell and it looks good
>but everybody else sells that part too ;)
>The correct spec/# Q-Jet carbs are newly stamped new Carter carbs from what
>I have heard and use slightly different parts than what was used back then
>on the original Q-Jet's.
>I don't know anything about their Dual Exhaust manifolds.
>Hope this helps.
>
>Nick DiGiovanni
>Port Coquitlam, B.C.
>1970 4-4-2 - "Snarls Softly and Carries a Big Kick"
>
>

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 12:52:32 -0300
Subject: Re: i must be going

Buddha wrote:
> 
> well, after a while on this list it saddens me that i must leave...

Bummer, man.  Keep us posted on the Bravada.  You know you should be 
able to send a post to the list and we'll all receive it even if you 
aren't subscribed.

Y'all come back, ya hear?

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: kissrulz@gnn.com (Craig Dobbins)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 05:54:34 -0300
Subject: Re: Proportioning valve 

What is Summit's web page address?

                                Craig.
>Date:		Wed, 7 Aug 1996 20:18:40 -0300
>From:	lacey@dsea.com (Dan Lacey)
>Sender:	oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>To:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>Subject:	Re: Proportioning valve
>
>>OK, I got my test message back, guess I wasn't bumped from the list.
>>Everyone must be in Atlanta.  Anyway, I'm looking for a proportioning valv
>e
>>for my 4-wheel drum brake 69 Cutlass.  Anybody got one?
>>--
>>Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
>>dpauliso@metrolink.net
>
>Summit has a variable proportioning valve on sale for $40!!! Check out
>their home page...
>
>I am thinking about buying one myself. Any reason not to?? Most of these
>run about $80+!!!
>
>It would sound too good to be true, but, Summit is a big retailer, and they
>might just be trying to get rid of them...
>
>
>*************************************************************************
>* THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY  *       Dan Lacey ( lacey@dsea.com )        *
>*                           *       Dainippon Screen Eng. of America    *
>* LEFT BLANK                *       3700 W. Segerstrom Ave.             *
>*                           *       Santa Ana, CA. 92704                *
>*************************************************************************
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: John Harris <John.Harris@rttc.redstone.army.mil>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 10:17:12 -0300
Subject: Where is the national show in Atlanta?

I plan on driving over on Saturday.  I will be comming down I75 from the
north.  Where is the show??


John Harris

------------------------------

From: John Harris <John.Harris@rttc.redstone.army.mil>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 10:15:51 -0300
Subject: 69 Axle codes?? TEST message

Did my post of the 69 axle codes get posted??  I never saw it.

------------------------------

From: "Andrew A. Senko" <senko@reston.ans.net>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 10:41:13 -0300
Subject: Is everyone at Nats?

Has there been a digest in the last day or two?  The last message of the
last digest I received (#258) was dated Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:19:57.

Actually, now that I think about it, there was a T3 outage in my area
yesterday, so maybe the digest couldn't reach me.

Has there been any activity on the list?
- -- 
                    _
                    |\            Convertibles                     
     .__====-_._____|_\______         Rule!                        Drew Senko
     [   ___  |-     |  ___  \                           senko@reston.ans.net
     =\_//.\\_|______|_//.\\__)                  http://members.gnn.com/senko
_________\_/____________\_/__________________________________________________

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 13:54:55 -0300
Subject: Re: Is everyone at Nats?

Andrew A. Senko wrote:
> 
> Has there been any activity on the list?

Not much.  Plus AOL was bit-barfing for 19 hours.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: kissrulz@gnn.com (Craig Dobbins)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 07:11:21 -0300
Subject: High volume oil pump 

Hello,
  To everyone -- I'm going to install a new oil pump in my '68 442 to
 replace my original equipment (just incase).  If I install a high volume oil 
pump, would I also have to change the oil pan over to a larger one?  Like an 
8-quart pan or something?  Or do you think I should just replace it with a 
regular one?  I've been told to install the high volume to better protect
the engine.  Any responses would be welcome.

                                                          Thank you,
                                                            Craig.

------------------------------

From: lacey@dsea.com (Dan Lacey)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 13:22:49 -0300
Subject: Re: Is everyone at Nats? 

>Has there been a digest in the last day or two?  The last message of the
>last digest I received (#258) was dated Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:19:57.
>
>Actually, now that I think about it, there was a T3 outage in my area
>yesterday, so maybe the digest couldn't reach me.
>
>Has there been any activity on the list?
>--
>                    _
>                    |\            Convertibles
>     .__====-_._____|_\______         Rule!                        Drew Senko
>     [   ___  |-     |  ___  \                           senko@reston.ans.net
>     =\_//.\\_|______|_//.\\__)                  http://members.gnn.com/senko
>_________\_/____________\_/__________________________________________________

Yes, there has been activity, but it is like a ghost town! It might be that
there are alot of AOL users subscribed.

AOL went SOL yesterday for 19 hours! They broke something that had to do
with a database. They really haven't said what it was...

Everybody on AOL gets a free day today. That should get the list hopping!


*************************************************************************
* THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY  *       Dan Lacey ( lacey@dsea.com )        *
*                           *       Dainippon Screen Eng. of America    *
* LEFT BLANK                *       3700 W. Segerstrom Ave.             *
*                           *       Santa Ana, CA. 92704                *
*************************************************************************

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 11:27:23 -0300
Subject: Re: Is everyone at Nats? 

>AOL went SOL yesterday for 19 hours! They broke something that had to do
>with a database. They really haven't said what it was...

Installing new host software which crashed, according to today's papers.
Someone in the Sun-Times observed that "a lot of people think AOL _is_
the Internet" and they probably think the _Internet_ crashed yesterday.
Um, no.  :-)  We didn't even notice they were gone, other than a comment
from a friend in Canada who said he'd received only one junk email ad
from an AOL account that morning.

>Everybody on AOL gets a free day today. That should get the list hopping!

I was wondering about that myself, but Greg has said that he often has
to unsubscribe AOLers due to mailbox problems. Greg? How many AOL accounts
are on the list?

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "AUVAX7::RILES" <RILES%AUVAX7.decnet@auscam.amd.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 12:45:00 -0300
Subject: TEXAS EVENTS?

Does anyone know of any Texas Events this fall?

Robert Iles
robert.iles@amd.com
'71 Cutlass Convertible

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 12:54:16 -0300
Subject: Re: Proportioning valve -Reply

>>> Craig Dobbins <kissrulz@gnn.com> 08/08/96 02:54am >>>
What is Summit's web page address?

http://www.summitracing.com

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 06:07:48 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Is everyone at Nats? 

     Something is goofed up somewhere.  I posted 3 or 4 messages to the 
     list all in one batch yesterday, and only one came back.  Strange. . . 
      I'm not on AOL, although I am trying to collect enough AOL disks to 
     build another garage out of  :-)
     
     Tom L.


______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Is everyone at Nats?
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    8/8/96 8:37 AM


>Has there been a digest in the last day or two?  The last message of the 
>last digest I received (#258) was dated Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:19:57.
>
Yes, there has been activity, but it is like a ghost town! It might be that 
there are alot of AOL users subscribed.
     
AOL went SOL yesterday for 19 hours! They broke something that had to do 
with a database. They really haven't said what it was...
     
Everybody on AOL gets a free day today. That should get the list hopping!

------------------------------

From: lacey@dsea.com (Dan Lacey)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 14:25:45 -0300
Subject: Re: Is everyone at Nats? 

>>AOL went SOL yesterday for 19 hours! They broke something that had to do
>>with a database. They really haven't said what it was...
>
>Installing new host software which crashed, according to today's papers.
>Someone in the Sun-Times observed that "a lot of people think AOL _is_
>the Internet" and they probably think the _Internet_ crashed yesterday.
>Um, no.  :-)  We didn't even notice they were gone, other than a comment
>from a friend in Canada who said he'd received only one junk email ad
>from an AOL account that morning.
>
>>Everybody on AOL gets a free day today. That should get the list hopping!
>
>I was wondering about that myself, but Greg has said that he often has
>to unsubscribe AOLers due to mailbox problems. Greg? How many AOL accounts
>are on the list?
>
>Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
>Datalogics, Inc.
>441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
>Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

We had to throw EVERYBODY off our lists from AOL yesterday...
The admin is considering not letting AOL users back on (This is not the
first time we have had trouble, but certainly the most impressive ;-)


*************************************************************************
* THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY  *       Dan Lacey ( lacey@dsea.com )        *
*                           *       Dainippon Screen Eng. of America    *
* LEFT BLANK                *       3700 W. Segerstrom Ave.             *
*                           *       Santa Ana, CA. 92704                *
*************************************************************************

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 13:24:03 -0300
Subject: Re: i must be going

> well, after a while on this list it saddens me that i must leave...my server
> and various other time restaints are just getting to be too much...maybe
> i'll be back, with a bravada and a 455
>                         Zack

...more likely a Toronado, the way this list goes.

See ya on the road!

- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-5450    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 16:37:17 -0300
Subject: Re: i must be going

Robert Lawrence wrote:
> 
> ...more likely a Toronado, the way this list goes.

;)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: JJF97@uno.cc.geneseo.edu
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 14:36:18 -0300
Subject: Resto  tips  .....

removing a tight nut on a generator pulley can be frustrating.
to solve the problem, use an ordinary oil filter wrench to hold the pulley in
place.  Then use your socket or wrench to remove the nut with ease.

this was the tip for the seventh, but it did not get posted for some reason.

Resto Corner

- --joe ferrero

------------------------------

From: JJF97@uno.cc.geneseo.edu
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 14:41:21 -0300
Subject: Resto  Tips  .....

Don't be afraiad to have a professional handle work that you're not 
comfortable with.  In the long run, it can actually save you money, and it may
very well save a rare piece from being distroyed in a novice's hands.

Resto Corner



Remember:  Keep those tips coming in, I have only received a few....
don't let them win by default!!!  =)

- --joe ferrero

------------------------------

From: "Andrew A. Senko" <senko@reston.ans.net>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 14:47:25 -0300
Subject: Toro suspension

Found this message on Usenet.  Can one of you virus-carriers help this guy?
Send your replies to him, not me.  I guess he doesn't know about this list.
- --
Drew

=---------------------------------------------------------------------------


From: dmorton@amenti.rutgers.edu (David Morton)
Subject: help on Toronado suspension
Organization: Rutgers University

I'm contemplating replacing the ball joints and tie rod ends (and I guess
the control arm bushings, too) on my '67 Toronado.  Not 
having done work on this kind of car before, does anyone have
any experience with this job?  Is it particularly difficult to 
get the upper and lower control arms out of the car with that
funky torsion bar set-up?  I'm a likely to kill myself somehow?

Dave

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 15:04:22 -0300
Subject: Hey Toro-heads!

If you guys are so proud of your Toro's, why don't you show 'em off?  I
mean, there's only one on Bryce's web page that I could see.  Why don't
the rest of you get yours up there?  Maybe by showing the rest of us
just how good these cars can look, you might create a few new
toro-lovers.  I didn't even know what they looked like until I saw that one
on Bryce's page...  (Now that I know what they look like, I remember
seeing one in a movie several years ago.  It was all black with really dark
tinted windows.  It was like a demon car or something.  What's the name
of that movie?)

- -Blaine
'72 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: Doug Ahern <doug@cobra.cosmic.uga.edu>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 15:06:08 -0300
Subject: Re: Is everyone at Nats?

hey, 

we are getting off the topic a little, I'm reading all these looking for the
answer to the original question "where and when are the nats"???

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 14:05:33 -0300
Subject: Re: Hey Toro-heads! 

>(Now that I know what they look like, I remember
>seeing one in a movie several years ago.  It was all black with really dark
>tinted windows.  It was like a demon car or something.  What's the name
>of that movie?)

"Chitty-Chitty-Bang-Bang"?

:-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 15:11:59 -0300
Subject: Ignition system Q's

Do Olds SB & BB use the same distibutor?  If I switch to electronic
ignition on my 350, can I swap that over to my 455 when I decide to
convert?  Or will I have to buy a whole new distributor for the 455? 
Thanks.

- -Blaine
'72 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: SG Hartfelder <shartfel@planet.eol.net>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 15:39:27 -0300
Subject: Re: test...

Hello.....  It has been a quiet day so far...

Dave Paulison wrote:
> 
> This is just a test...have only recieved 9 messages today...
> --
> Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
> dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 18:44:04 -0300
Subject: Re: Hey Toro-heads!

Andrew C. Green wrote:
> 
> > It was like a demon car or something.  
> > What's the name of that movie?
> 
> "Chitty-Chitty-Bang-Bang"?

THE SPAM-SCUDS ARE WARMING ON THE PAD!  WE ARE AT DEFCON 1
 
The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: SG Hartfelder <shartfel@planet.eol.net>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 15:47:57 -0300
Subject: Here's why

The following letter might explain why there was low activity on the list:

Full-text of letter AOL sent customers via e-mail Wednesday explaining why its 
service was down for 19 hours

August 7, 1996 

Dear Members, 

Wednesday was a bad day for me -- and I know, for many of you. The AOL system 
was unavailable for most of the day, so if you tried to sign on and couldn't, 
you were, unfortunately, not alone. 

Once or twice a month we take the system down for maintenance, and to install 
new software. Usually, this maintenance period lasts from 4 a.m. - 6 a.m. ET, 
so 
it is generally invisible. This morning, however, we encountered significant 
problems as we were installing high capacity switches within the local area 
network in AOL's data centers, and it took much longer than usual to get the 
system up and running. 

I would like to be able to tell you that this sort of thing will never happen 
again, but frankly, I can't make that commitment, as we are building a new 
medium and breaking new ground. I can however, commit that we will do 
everything 
we possibly can to improve quality, and that when we do encounter problems, we 
will be candid about them. I am very sorry so many of you experienced 
problems, 
and, of course, we will credit your account for this lost day of service. 
(This 
means we will prorate your monthly fee and credit you for the equivalent of 
one 
day of your monthly service fee.) 

This was a very unfortunate occurrence and I don't want to make light of that. 
But it did have an interesting side effect: it reminded all of us how 
important 
AOL is becoming in our everyday lives. When we started this company a decade 
ago, online services were on the fringe, used principally by computer 
hobbyists. 
Now, we have more than 6 million people using AOL in an increasingly habitual 
way, which means a day without being able to access AOL is disorienting and 
downright frustrating. So we have come a long way in terms of making AOL a 
part 
of everyday life -- and now we need to raise the bar in terms of quality and 
reliability of the experience. Today's outage reminds us that despite the 
recent 
progress we've made in expanding our AOLnet network and enhancing the 
responsiveness of our Member Services team, we still have a long way to go to 
make AOL as reliable as must-have utilities such as electricity and the 
telephone. But that's what we intend to do. I want to express my sincere 
thanks 
for your patience and continued support. 

Sincerely, 

Steve Case Chairman and CEO, America Online

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 23:21:53 -0300
Subject: Resto  Tips  .....

When putting a resstored car together in it's final stages, wrap masking/balck 
electrical tape around the stock 
of the screw drive, entension rod, etc. This keeps your freshly painted parts 
from being scratched if the tool 
were to rub or hit the painted surface. 

Works for me..
- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 23:10:27 -0300
Subject: Re: High volume oil pump

Hello Craig,
	Your oil pump delema. I'm against the high volume pump for various 
reasons. First, the engine's bottom end is 
stock so a high vol pump is not necessary. You will not realize any 
improvements. In fact I think you'd be just asking for 
a problem to occur. Fact, you only need a minimum of 4Lbs of oil pressure to 
keep your engine from cooking. A Stock oil 
pump gives you atleast 30 lbs. I would say that is sufficient. If you engine 
was more performance oriented, depending on 
what of course then the high vol. maybe of consideration. I think many people 
get caught up in the hipe of high 
performance and once they hear the words, high, big, fatter, stronger they are 
all for it, without considering the why..

Second, you already stubled on this one, "Do I need a larger oil pan?"  Well, 
you very well may ned one. A high vol pump 
requires oil, alot of oil to keep it working. If so some reason the pump gets 
starved that maybe the end of your engine. 
Given the fact that you car is stock the oil return galleries are not 
configured for a fast return time. The high vol. 
maybe keep the oil on the top part of the engine at a faster rate then it can 
return to the pan.

Third, a high vol. pump will put more strain on your crank and main bearings. 
Usually restrictors are used to offset this 
and the oil starvation problem.  he choice is yours but unless you consider 
thses problem I'm not sure what a high vol. 
pump will do for your engine as apposed to what your stock pump is doing 
sufficiently now.
- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 06:03:21 -0300
Subject: Re: Here's why 

>text of letter AOL sent customers via e-mail
>
>Dear Members, 
>
>Wednesday was a bad day for me -- 

 we are building a new 
>medium and breaking new ground. I can however, commit that we will do
everything 
>we possibly can to improve quality, a

>This was a very unfortunate occurrence and I don't want to make light of 
that. 

 it did have an interesting side effect: it reminded all of us how important 
>AOL is becoming in our everyday lives.

> need to raise the bar in terms of quality and 
>reliability of the experience. we still have a long way to go to 
>make AOL as reliable as must-have utilities such as electricity and the 
>telephone. But that's what we intend to do. I want to express my sincere
thanks 
>for your patience and continued support. 
>
>Sincerely, 
>
>Steve Case Chairman and CEO, America Online

Couldn't you just puke?  

It makes me sad to think that some people don't have acess to a web server
that charges reasoable rates. The local server in my area charges $15 a
month flat rate.  Guess I'm lucky. 

Greg Pruett


Insert philosophical and/or amusing phrase here-----------

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 17:03:59 -0300
Subject: Dying cloth and vinyl seats 

Ok, this post is pretty boring . . .

I've come across a pair of immaculate '70 Delta seats, but they are green, 
not blue.  The seats are mostly cloth with about six inches of vinyl on the 
ends.

Can the fabric and vinyl be dyed successfully?  What about durability?  
Anyone done this or know of a company that will do it?

Thanks!

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
             FAQ Version 2.0 due soon!

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 17:05:42 -0300
Subject: Re: Ignition system Q's 

I believe they are the same.  If your Olds dealer lists a replacement 
distributor, find out if it is the same for 350 and 455.

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
        HTML indexed FAQ: www.cps.msu.edu/~twomeysh/


- -----------
Do Olds SB & BB use the same distibutor?  

- -Blaine
'72 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 19:01:28 -0300
Subject: Re; Heres Why

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- --------------7313268A5C76
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Forwarding my comments back to Greg Kalkhoff 
who sent me his "Chase" letter this morning.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

- --------------7313268A5C76
Content-Type: message/rfc822
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

X-Mozilla-Status: 0001
Message-ID: <320A1B10.4335@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 09:51:28 -0700
From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Organization: Edison3, Inc.
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Win16; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Toronado66@aol.com
Subject: Chase Letter
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Greg,

I regards to Mr Chase's letter:

> Once or twice a month we take the system down for maintenance,  and to
> install new software.  Usually, this maintenance period lasts from 4
> a.m. - 6 a.m. ET, so it is generally invisible.

SOP.

> This morning, however, we encountered significant problems as we were
> installing high capacity switches within the local area network in
> AOL's data centers, and it took much longer than usual to get the
> system up and running.

Longer than usual?  19 hours?

> I would like to be able to tell you that this sort of thing will never
> happen again, but frankly, I can't make that commitment, as we are
> building a new medium and breaking new ground.

Of course, NOBODY could or should make such a commitment.  What we have
here is not a failure of promise but a lack of management's commitment 
to, or failure to understand, zero defects.  

"Breaking new ground"?  Hardly.  It's not as if AOL was inventing routers 
or mutiplexors.  This wasn't an experiment gone wrong; it was simply a 
poorly executed application of existing technology.

> I can however, commit that we will do everything we possibly can to
> improve quality...

I would think so.  How about not ignoring a basic rule of data 
processing:  Never replace a production component until the replacement 
has been proven reliable in parallel operation.

> ...and that when we do encounter problems, we will be candid about
> them.

Is that supposed to be reassuring?  If AOL rolls over on it's back,
they'll admit it?  I would think you would know -- admitted or not.

> I am very sorry so many of you experienced problems, and, of course, we
> will credit your account for this lost day of service.  (This means we
> will prorate your monthly fee and credit you for the equivalent of one
> day of your monthly service fee.)

As if less-than-a-buck is compensation for the lack of productivity.
Compensation is not the issue.  It's why an apparent  "devil may care" 
attitude has been taken towards AOL's operations.

> But it did have an interesting side effect:  it reminded all of us how
> important AOL is becoming in our everyday lives.

And an interesting choice of words.  Data processing PROFESSIONALS don't
need to be reminded of the importance of their systems to those their
systems support.  Proper planning for any upgrade includes contingency
planning for disaster recovery.  This was simply poor thinking on the
part of day-shift MIS planners and poor project management by night-shift
personnel.

> ...which means a day without being able to access AOL is disorienting 
> and downright frustrating.

Mr Chase is VERY good with understatements.

> ...and now we need to raise the bar in terms of quality and reliability 

No doubt.

> ...we still have a long way to go to make AOL as reliable as must-have 
> utilities such as electricity and the telephone.

If you're gonna run with the big dogs...

> I want to express my sincere thanks for your patience and continued 
> support.

While I'm sure Mr Chase's intent was to be reassuring, the overall tone 
seems to be "Sh*t Happens".  No, it doesn't.  It is caused.  Maybe AOL 
needs to review some of NASA's decision process failures.

I remember the evening of that ill-fated flight, setting up a VCR in my 
classroom and playing the tape of the explosion to my data processing 
students.  Followed by a half-hour lecture on how an accumulation of 
minor errors in preparation will lead to disaster.

Kinda makes me wish I was still teaching Data Processing 101.

You might want to consider an alternate service provider as part of your 
own backup plan.

Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/



- --------------7313268A5C76--

------------------------------

From: Frank Boerger <103454.317@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 16:05:53 -0300
Subject: FW: When is the NATS...

>we are getting off the topic a little, I'm reading all these looking for the
>answer to the original question "where and when are the nats"???

August 7-11...my Hemmings says the Marriott in Marietta, GA.

I'm heading that way tommorrow, but I still could use any advice to make sure
I'm looking for the right place...

Frank Boerger
Tallahassee, FL

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 17:15:01 -0300
Subject: Re: High volume oil pump 

There is quite a bit of information on oiling systems on the Melling web page: 
http://www.melling.com/.  Hope this provides some answers.

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
             FAQ version 2.0 due soon

------------------------------

From: dcart@micro.ti.com (Donald B Cart)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 16:23:30 -0300
Subject: FW: When is the NATS... 

 
 According to the JWO events, the Marriot Nortwest is located at I75
and Windy Hill Road, exit 110. For info call (770) 977-5191.

See ya there,
Don

- ----- Begin Included Message -----

>we are getting off the topic a little, I'm reading all these looking for the
>answer to the original question "where and when are the nats"???

August 7-11...my Hemmings says the Marriott in Marietta, GA.

I'm heading that way tommorrow, but I still could use any advice to make sure
I'm looking for the right place...

Frank Boerger
Tallahassee, FL







- ----- End Included Message -----

------------------------------

From: R4C442@aol.com
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 16:24:08 -0300
Subject: Re: Ignition system Q's 

I used an HEI distributor from a  1981 350 in my 400 inch 65 motor so I have
to assume they are indeed the same. Incidentally gang, I was talking to some
fool who was telling me he had a 64 Cutlass with a 350 (from the factory, he
said) which was outrunning all the BB's he raced!  Needless to say, our
conversation didn't last long but it got me wondering when GM did introduce
the 350. I seem to remember 68 as being the year...anybody else recall?

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 15:17:01 -0300
Subject: Re: Here's why 

>> it did have an interesting side effect: it reminded all of us how 
>> important AOL is becoming in our everyday lives.
>> Steve Case Chairman and CEO, America Online
>
>Couldn't you just puke?  
>
>It makes me sad to think that some people don't have acess to a web server
>that charges reasonable rates. The local server in my area charges $15 a
>month flat rate.  Guess I'm lucky. 

(I try not to get off-topic too badly in the Olds list, but seeing as we
apparently have the place to ourselves today...)

(And this is not a flame at AOL users, if any are still here)

I think it's more than just rates; the role AOL fills for a lot of people
is that of, well, entertainment provider, for want of a better term. It's
great for people whose computers would sit around idle otherwise, full of
non-technical point-and-click amusements. There is a lot of stuff going
on there that you won't find elsewhere, such as their notorious chat rooms,
on-line interviews, tie-ins to various magazines, etc. But I cannot think
of any time when I felt I was missing something because I don't have an
AOL account. It's sort of like watching commercial TV when you have a cable
TV feed available. Okay, not the greatest analogy, but I'm in a hurry...
Given the choice between AOL and going straight to the Internet via an ISP
for direct WWW access (yes, I know AOL has a version of a browser too), a 
real Usenet newsreader, uncensored newsfeed, etc., I'll take the ISP route.
Friends of mine who get started via AOL progress to an ISP as soon as they 
start to chafe at AOL's limitations, while others I know are quite happy to
stay at AOL where it's, well, comfy, I guess. AOL seems to position itself 
as One Big Happy Family, whereas a lot of us would much prefer to leave home
and explore the world.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: STEE911@aol.com
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 16:28:40 -0300
Subject: Fwd: Smoke from tailpipes 

the vacuum modulator line is a vacuum line that goes from the transmission to
the intake manifold for a vacuum source if the diaphram in the modulator
breaks it still might work but will let the intake suck transmission fluid
into the intake==where the vac line runs to is a place on the intake that
will be one of the runners to a particular cylinder #7 i believe<<passenger
side closest to the firewall==check and see if the plug for that cylinder is
fouled and if you replace it and it fouls again you found your problem==or
you can look and see if you have any trans fluid in that vac line==replaceing
the modulator is a very easy job<<check with a trans shop to see if a
adjustable one is available
- ---------------------
Forwarded message:
From:	kissrulz@gnn.com (Craig Dobbins)
To:	STEE911@aol.com
Date: 96-08-08 08:22:01 EDT

Hi,
  What is the "mod vac line", and what do you mean by a "single runner".  
Also, what plug are you talking about, a spark plug?  I'm just learning a lot

more stuff about cars since I got my 442, so please explain.
                                                    Thanks,
                                                      Craig
>Date:		Tue, 6 Aug 1996 14:04:25 -0300
>From:	STEE911@aol.com
>Sender:	oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>To:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>Subject:	Fwd: Smoke from tailpipes
>
>most likely the mod vac line is connected to a single runner on the
>intake==follow this line and check if the plug is fouling more than the
>others==this is a easy fix
>---------------------
>Forwarded message:
>From:	gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu (Daniel Gulino)
>Sender:	oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>Reply-to:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>To:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>Date: 96-08-06 10:20:32 EDT
>
>Another possibility for white smoke from the tailpipe is transmission 
>fluid being drawn into the intake manifold due to a leaking vacuum 
>modulator.  Check your transmission fluid level.
>
>
>
>Dan Gulino
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: John Harris <John.Harris@rttc.redstone.army.mil>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 16:37:54 -0300
Subject: Mufflers for 69 442 ?

Folks

Which muffler do you prefer on a d. near stock 400 69 442. I had my mind
made up on 2 chamber Flowmasters.  However I got a good sales pitch on
some Flowtech Terminators.  The Flowtechs are cheaper, but not enough
cheaper to really matter.  Do any of you have experience with Flowtech?

John M Harris

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 19:44:55 -0300
Subject: Re: Here's why

Andrew C. Green wrote:
> 
> AOL seems to position itself as One Big Happy Family, whereas a lot of 
> us would much prefer to leave home and explore the world.

Well said, Andy.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 16:49:03 -0300
Subject: Re: 69 Axle codes?? TEST message

At 10:15 AM 8/8/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Did my post of the 69 axle codes get posted??  I never saw it.
>
No, I don't think so.  It never got here...
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 15:43:50 -0300
Subject: Re: Fwd: Smoke from tailpipes 

>the vacuum modulator line is a vacuum line that goes from the transmission to
>the intake manifold for a vacuum source if the diaphram in the modulator
>breaks it still might work but will let the intake suck transmission fluid
>into the intake

The classic test for this: accelerate normally to 30-40 mph, let off the
gas to coast and immediately look in your rear view mirror. If you see
a puff of gray smoke, the modulator is bad.

When you let off the gas, your intake manifold vacuum goes up, and slurps
up whatever trans fluid seeped past the modulator valve into the vacuum 
line during your last acceleration.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 19:47:07 -0300
Subject: Re: Toro suspension

Andrew A. Senko wrote:
> 
> Can one of you virus-carriers help this guy?

Done.  Sent him the subscription info and will see 
that it makes the rounds on the Toro mini-list.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 19:52:23 -0300
Subject: Re: Hey Toro-heads!

Blaine Sanders 5483 wrote:
> 
> If you guys are so proud of your Toro's, why don't you show 'em off? 

We're shy.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Todd Hall <thall@en.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 17:06:29 -0300
Subject: Re: Proportioning valve 

At 05:54 AM 8/8/96 -0300, you wrote:
>What is Summit's web page address?
>

http://www.summitracing.com

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 16:55:10 -0300
Subject: Movie

At 03:04 PM 8/8/96 -0300, you wrote:
>(Now that I know what they look like, I remember
>seeing one in a movie several years ago.  It was all black with really dark
>tinted windows.  It was like a demon car or something.  What's the name
>of that movie?)
>
>-Blaine

I believe I saw the movie you are thinking of on TV.  Only it wasn't a Toro,
it was like a early 70's Dodge Charger.  It was painted all black with very
dark tinted windows, and was terrorizing a mother (who drove a school bus)
and her daughter for some reason I can't recall.  That's about the only
thing I remember about that movie, and I think I only remember that because
I have a friend who has a black 72 Charger.   Is that the same movie you're
thinking of?? 
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Voorhis <dave@armchair.mb.ca>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 17:08:11 -0300
Subject: Re: Hey Toro-heads! 

At 03:04 PM 08/08/96 -0300, you wrote:
>If you guys are so proud of your Toro's, why don't you show 'em off?  I
>mean, there's only one on Bryce's web page that I could see.

Hey!  That's mine!  Unless Bryce took down mine and put somebody else's up.

> (Now that I know what they look like, I remember
>seeing one in a movie several years ago.  It was all black with really dark
>tinted windows.  It was like a demon car or something.  What's the name
>of that movie?)

I think it was Stephen King's "Needful Things".  Or maybe not.  It was
definitely a movie adaptation of a Stephen King novel, though.

Dave Voorhis, '66 & '67 Toros
dave@armchair.mb.ca
http://www.armchair.mb.ca/~dave

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 16:01:41 -0300
Subject: Re: Movie 

>I believe I saw the movie you are thinking of on TV.  Only it wasn't a Toro,
>it was like a early 70's Dodge Charger.  It was painted all black with very
>dark tinted windows, and was terrorizing a mother (who drove a school bus)
>and her daughter for some reason I can't recall. 

Yes! Yes! Yes! I remember that now; it _was_ a Charger, I think a '71.
It stuck in my mind because my next-door neighbor used to have the same
model. Trying now to remember the actress... Markie Post? I think the
title of the movie was indeed something like "Demon Car"... Wasn't it
on USA Network or some outfit like that? It'll probably pop up again soon...
followed by "Toronado from Hell: The Automatic Temperature Control's Revenge"
where the heater won't shut off, the relay for the power seat and windows
goes out and the occupants get baked...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Rod Rickenbach <rod@hopi.dtcc.edu>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 17:13:11 -0300
Subject: Re: Movie

> >(Now that I know what they look like, I remember
> >seeing one in a movie several years ago.  It was all black with really dark
> >tinted windows.  It was like a demon car or something.  What's the name
> >of that movie?)
> >
> >-Blaine

The name of that movie was: The Car

BTW, I rented a movie at Blockbusters named Hot Rod, I believe.  It was 
about a guy building up a car (Willies) with the motor from his wrecked 
Hemi somethingorother.  Of course, he was building it up to race the 
local hotshot w/ a '69 Cutlass w/ dual quads. :)


- -Rod
- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Rod Rickenbach                                       Delaware Tech
     rod@dtcc.edu                                 Computer Services Department
http://www.dtcc.edu/~rod                            Stanton/Wilmington Campus

------------------------------

From: Todd Hall <thall@en.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 17:24:50 -0300
Subject: Re: Here's why 

At 03:47 PM 8/8/96 -0300, you wrote:

>Full-text of letter AOL sent customers via e-mail Wednesday explaining why 
its 
>service was down for 19 hours
>
>August 7, 1996 
>
>Dear Members, 
>
>.....But it did have an interesting side effect: it reminded all of us how
>important AOL is becoming in our everyday lives...... 

>Sincerely, 

>
>Steve Case Chairman and CEO, America Online


Now *that's* a scary thought!

Todd
'72 442
http://www.en.com/users/thall

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 17:19:30 -0300
Subject: Re: Hey Toro-heads! 

In a message dated 96-08-08 14:12:42 EDT, BLAINES@strata3d.com (Blaine
Sanders 5483) writes:

>(Now that I know what they look like, I remember
>seeing one in a movie several years ago.  It was all black with really dark
>tinted windows.  It was like a demon car or something.  What's the name
>of that movie?)

Blaine,

I know the movie. It WASN"T a Toro either. The movie was called "The Car".
circa 1970. The featured car was a 1970 (or so) Lincoln Continental that was
wiped  along with other minor customization. It was black with blacked out
windows. It terrorized the community as it chased people and ran them over.
Supposidly, it had no driver. The car had its own 'entity' ala "Christine".
 I forget how, but I believe it met its demise somehow. It probably head
onned a 66 Toro and was scrunched. The Toro then drove away looking for other
Ford. Lincoln, Mercury products to chew up.

Sparky  

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 17:19:25 -0300
Subject: Re: Hey Toro-heads! 

In a message dated 96-08-08 14:26:05 EDT, acg@dlogics.com (Andrew C. Green)
writes:

>"Chitty-Chitty-Bang-Bang"?
>
>

Andy,

For the most part, we Toro guys have been a rather sedate, inocuous group who
enjoy our cars without much pomp and flagrance. However, when taken to task,
we can become ornery, owley, and shoot flames with the best of em! 

However, I did chuckel to the Bang Bang reply!  (:

Sparky

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 17:19:27 -0300
Subject: Re: Hey Toro-heads! 

In a message dated 96-08-08 14:12:42 EDT, BLAINES@strata3d.com (Blaine
Sanders 5483) writes:

>If you guys are so proud of your Toro's, why don't you show 'em off?  I
>mean, there's only one on Bryce's web page that I could see.  Why don't
>the rest of you get yours up there? 

Blaine,

You have a valid point there. I don't know why we (as individuals) do not get
into that sort of stuff. Case in fact my Dad. He has a 67 Toro with 18K
original and does't drive it, show it, look at it,...... it almost seems as
if he ignores it. In short, he doesn't even want anyone to know he even owns
it. 

I  just don't know. Maybe its a side effect of the virus. (;

Sparky

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 17:16:23 -0300
Subject: Re: Hey Toro-heads! 

In a message dated 96-08-08 14:46:49 EDT, edison3@cpeq.com (Mike Frederick)
writes:

>THE SPAM-SCUDS ARE WARMING ON THE PAD!  WE ARE AT DEFCON 1
> 

Mike,

I have a few coordinates I would like you to program in. Consult me before
launch time!

Sparky

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 17:17:03 -0300
Subject: Re: Is everyone at Nats? 

In a message dated 96-08-08 12:25:24 EDT, lacey@dsea.com (Dan Lacey) writes:

>>>Everybody on AOL gets a free day today. That should get the list hopping!

Dan,

I'm trying to confirm that statement. So far, all we are getting is a
pro-rated credit for one days use. If it is a free day, they are keeping it
quiet. If I can verify, you can bet I will log on and not log off until
midnight, regardless if I am using the system or not.

Revenge is a dish better served cold!

Sparky

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 17:16:52 -0300
Subject: 69 Cutlass brakes

I need a proportioning valve for my 69 Cutlass.  Or maybe it's just a
junction block.  It mounts on the frame below where the master
cylinder/vacuum booster is located.  The two lines from the master cylinder
go into it, and four lines come out, two for the front drums, and two for
the rear drums.  This is the last piece left on the brakes that I haven't
replaced/checked recently, so I am assuming it is the reason for the hard
pedal I have (haven't fixed it yet!).  Anybody have one, or some Good Ideas
as to what might be causing the hard pedal? Everything seems to function
correctly, except I have to stand on the brake pedal to stop the car.  It's
not much fun to drive in that condition.  Thanks!
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 17:20:12 -0300
Subject: Re: Hey Toro-heads!

> > (Now that I know what they look like, I remember
> >seeing one in a movie several years ago.  It was all black with really dark
> >tinted windows.  It was like a demon car or something.  What's the name
> >of that movie?)
> 
> I think it was Stephen King's "Needful Things".  Or maybe not.  It was
> definitely a movie adaptation of a Stephen King novel, though.

No, that's "Christine" (Body by Chrysler, Soul by Satan).

Your thinking of the movie were the Toronado comes back for revenge
after a sheriff, old sea dog, and yuppie scientist, part out the
Toronado's mate.

- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-5450    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 20:23:09 -0300
Subject: Re: Hey Toro-heads!

Dave Voorhis wrote:
> 
> That's mine!  Unless Bryce took down mine and put somebody else's up.

Actually, he must have -- cause it's Gregg Ludlam's '67.
Fire off a nasty post, Dave.  Toro discrimination and all that.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 20:23:09 -0300
Subject: Re: Hey Toro-heads!

Dave Voorhis wrote:
> 
> That's mine!  Unless Bryce took down mine and put somebody else's up.

Actually, he must have -- cause it's Gregg Ludlam's '67.
Fire off a nasty post, Dave.  Toro discrimination and all that.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Dave Voorhis <dave@armchair.mb.ca>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 17:45:07 -0300
Subject: Re: Hey Toro-heads! 

At 05:20 PM 08/08/96 -0300, you wrote:

>> I think it was Stephen King's "Needful Things".  Or maybe not.  It was
>> definitely a movie adaptation of a Stephen King novel, though.
>
>No, that's "Christine" (Body by Chrysler, Soul by Satan).
>

Nope.  I know "Christine".  In the movie I'm thinking of, the bad guy (or
whatever) tools around in a black '66 Toro.  There's some nice scenes of him
ripping around on gravel roads with the front tires spinning out.

Dave Voorhis, '66 & '67 Toros
dave@armchair.mb.ca
http://www.armchair.mb.ca/~dave

------------------------------

From: Dave Voorhis <dave@armchair.mb.ca>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 17:49:22 -0300
Subject: Re: Hey Toro-heads! 

At 08:23 PM 08/08/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Dave Voorhis wrote:
>> 
>> That's mine!  Unless Bryce took down mine and put somebody else's up.
>
>Actually, he must have -- cause it's Gregg Ludlam's '67.
>Fire off a nasty post, Dave.  Toro discrimination and all that.
>

Hey!  That's NASTY.  Mine USED to be there, in fact it was among the first
cars to hit the page when it was first put up.

Bryce!  Whassup with that?  You got sumpin' 'gainst my Toro???  You dissin'
my ride???

See it at http://www.armchair.mb.ca/~dave/cars

Dave Voorhis, '66 & '67 Toros
dave@armchair.mb.ca
http://www.armchair.mb.ca/~dave

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 17:53:17 -0300
Subject: Re: Hey Toro-heads! -Reply

Geeze, guys... I didn't mean to offend anyone.  The point I was trying to
make is that I actually love Toro's!  Ever since I saw that Steven King
movie (thanks guys) I've always wanted one.  It's just that I didn't know
*that* was a Toro.  All I knew was that it was a bad-a** Oldsmobile. 
That's why I think you guys should put the pictures in the Registry.
There's no denying the fact that Toro's are beautiful, unique autos.  I think
everyone should have the opportunity of viewing and lusting over them. 
I *still* can't believe they are front wheel drive...

>>> <Toronado66@aol.com> 08/08/96 02:16pm >>>
In a message dated 96-08-08 14:46:49 EDT, edison3@cpeq.com (Mike
Frederick)
writes:

>>THE SPAM-SCUDS ARE WARMING ON THE PAD!  WE ARE AT DEFCON
>1
>> 

>Mike,
>
>I have a few coordinates I would like you to program in. Consult me
>before
>launch time!
>
>Sparky

------------------------------

From: Frank Boerger <103454.317@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 17:48:46 -0300
Subject: FW:First year of Olds 350...

> when GM did introduce the 350. I seem to remember 68 as being the
year...anybody else recall?

Yes, '68 was the first year.

Frank Boerger
'68 Cutlass convertible/'68 coupe-for-parts

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 18:59:57 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Here's why 

I think this guy is in mission statement writing mode.  You know there will 
be a good Dilbert coming from this . . .

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

- -------------
>Full-text of letter AOL sent customers via e-mail Wednesday explaining why 
its 
>service was down for 19 hours
>
>August 7, 1996 
>
>Dear Members, 
>
>.....But it did have an interesting side effect: it reminded all of us how
>important AOL is becoming in our everyday lives...... 

>Sincerely, 

>
>Steve Case Chairman and CEO, America Online

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 18:02:53 -0300
Subject: Re: Hey Toro-heads! -Reply

Ah ha!  OK, I must have mixed two (or three) movies together.  I have
seen "The Car".  That's the vision I was seeing about demon cars.  And I
have seen "Needful Things", too.  I think that's the Toro I was thinking of.
Umm... that is a *sweeet* machine.  I'm gonna rent that movie tonight.

>>> <Toronado66@aol.com> 08/08/96 02:19pm >>>
In a message dated 96-08-08 14:12:42 EDT, BLAINES@strata3d.com
(Blaine
Sanders 5483) writes:

>(Now that I know what they look like, I remember
>seeing one in a movie several years ago.  It was all black with really
dark
>tinted windows.  It was like a demon car or something.  What's the
name
>of that movie?)

Blaine,

I know the movie. It WASN"T a Toro either. The movie was called "The
Car".
circa 1970. The featured car was a 1970 (or so) Lincoln Continental that
was
wiped  along with other minor customization. It was black with blacked
out
windows. It terrorized the community as it chased people and ran them
over.
Supposidly, it had no driver. The car had its own 'entity' ala "Christine".
 I forget how, but I believe it met its demise somehow. It probably head
onned a 66 Toro and was scrunched. The Toro then drove away looking
for other
Ford. Lincoln, Mercury products to chew up.

Sparky  

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 18:04:05 -0300
Subject: Re: High volume oil pump 

At 06:11 AM 8/8/96 -0400, you wrote:
>
>Hello,
>  To everyone -- I'm going to install a new oil pump in my '68 442 to
> replace my original equipment (just incase).  If I install a high volume oil 
>pump, would I also have to change the oil pan over to a larger one?  Like an 
>8-quart pan or something?  Or do you think I should just replace it with a 
>regular one?  I've been told to install the high volume to better protect
>the engine.  Any responses would be welcome.
>
>                                                          Thank you,
>                                                            Craig.

Well, I just installed a HV pump in my 403 rebuild with the stock pan, and
I've had no problems at all. I get 30 psi pressure at idle when heated up,
40-50 psi on the highway, and 60 psi on a cold start.

What you are worried about is the hv pump pumping all the oil into the oil
galleries before the oil has a chance to drain back and cover the pump
pickup, since the amount of oil it can pump exceeds the factory spec pump,
which was matched to the factory-designed drainback rate.  I don't run it at
5000 rpm all day, and my drainback passages are sparkling new, so I'm not
really worried about sucking the pan dry. In addition, the pressure relief
valve puts the excess oil put out by the pump right back in to the pan after
a specified psi (about 50-60 psi, in my case, which it hits at about 1500rpm
and stays at as high as I care to rev it).

If your drainback holes are clogged with years of crud, _and_ you run at
high rpm for extended periods of time, you may need a high-capacity sump so
that the pickup is always covered with oil. Or if you are running a high
pressure spring in the high volume pump, at high rpm for extended periods of
time (not just hitting 5000rpm before a shift every once in a while; I know
that I don't run at 5000rpm in third gear on the street very much), then you
probably could use an 8-quart pan.

For normal high-performance street use, I'd say the stock pan is fine (use
what is on there); if you want some extra insurance, get a 6-quart Toronado
pan and pickup. If you want a cool "Milodon" sticker and have lots of extra
$$$ to spend, sure, get the 8-quart.

BTW, has anyone out there ever sucked a pan dry with a hv pump on the street?

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #260
********************************
 
