
oldsmobile-digest         Wednesday, 17 July 1996      Volume 01 : Number 240


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 16:05:23 -0300
Subject: Re: Hagerty Ins #

tmorris@bt1dc18e.bet.ibm.com wrote:
> 
> Does anyone have the phone number for Hagerty Insurance? thanks.
> 
> Todd Morris
> 71 442 4 sp

Todd:

That number is 1-800-922-4050.  They are on the web too.  That is where 
a person can even fill out an application.  I suspect it is 
WWW.Hagerty.com or something like that.
- -- 
SLTG

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 16:17:41 -0300
Subject: Re: torque multiplication explained

Greg Pruett wrote:
> 
> For those of you who wonder how a torque converter multiplies torque, here
> it is.  As paraphrased from a circa 1967 petersen book called basic clutch
> and transmission systems.  
> 
> Hope this is all intelligible.
> 
> Greg Pruett
> 
> 
> Greg:

That was nice.  Another person who can write for the mentally retarded. 
 Where do you all come from?
- -- 
SLTG

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 16:20:25 -0300
Subject: Re: rotor question

Greg Pruett wrote:
> 
> Just something a couple of us wonder about.  Why do the front brake rotors
> of F-85s have grooves running on both sides of the rotor's machined surface.
>   But I'm sure they belong
> there for some reason.
> 
> Anyone happen to know why?
> 
> Greg Pruett

Greg:

I believe it is there to dissapate water.  Remachined rotors don't 
usually get this treatment because the machinist is too busy to repeat 
this feature.
- -- 
SLTG

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 16:41:38 -0300
Subject: Re: c'ya!

Chris Brown Witt wrote:
> 
> As with others, I find that this is just too much fun. Consequently, other
> things have been neglected. Feces is now impinging on the air-moving device.
> After today, I shall be forced to sign off the best list there is, 
> 
> It's been real, it's been fun, it's been real fun.
> --
> Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
> wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

Chris:

I sure hate to see you go, especially after I have found someone who is 
attracted to ferous oxide more than I.  Good luck & we should see you on 
the net somehow.

That parts car list sounds interesting.  After helping me w/orange 425's 
I feel that I am already an expert.
- -- 
SLTG

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 21:48:24 -0300
Subject: Re: Mon's posts 

In a message dated 96-07-16 13:56:11 EDT, you write:

<< > it with painting 68 442 engines gold?  Was this some sort of disease or
 
 Well, ever try to find Bronze paint.  >>

The late 70's Chrysler body paint "Sienna Mist" is pretty darn close but drys
glossy unless a flatener is added.  Or let ol' man time do it.  Lasts well
too.

Bob Handren

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 16:51:58 -0300
Subject: Re: Need assist with Olds ID

Todd Hall wrote:
> 
> 
>         This brings up an interesting point, I can't seem to find a listing
> for         the 442 for the 1972 model year (2nd digit).
>         The options are:
> 
>                     D = F85 4d sedan
>                     F = F85 2d Hardtop coupe
>                     G = Cutlass
>                     J = Cutass Supreme
>                     K = Vista Cruiser
> 
>         Anyone know how to identify a 442 from the '72 VIN plate? I know
> there         is some question as far as mine is concerned. I've got 442
> fenders,
>         grill plates, and decklid. Glovebox has "Cutlass" emblem on it and
> interior doors have the "S" emblem on them. Vin plate indicates cutlass.
> 
>         Todd Hall
>        
> 
> Todd:

I believe that the 442 answer is that the 442 was an option that year & 
not part of the VIN plate code on the firewall.
- -- 
SLTG

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 21:57:03 -0300
Subject: It's the rare one 

In a message dated 96-07-15 23:30:29 EDT, you write:

>Paul,
>Is that the fairly common factory left bashed fender, or the rare factory
>right 
>bashed fender.  Haven't seen many of the rare ones.
>
>Art Fuller
>
>

As Ripley would say, "Beleive it or not..."

Yep, it's the EXTREMELY rare factory right bashed in fender.  This car is
also equipped with the even rarer factory slightly twisted right bumper end,
as well as the color co-ordinated dual hood dimples.  It also has that hard
to find factory mangled right cast grille extension and severly twisted cast
chrome extension molding.  The torn cornering light ground wire, bent fender
braces and spot on the passenger door where the fender rubs against when the
door opens are all aftermarket accessories.  All of these items are courtesy
of Buick Motor Division, and all at the extremely affordable cost of
$1400.00.

Ya gotta laugh to keep from cryin'

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 21:58:04 -0300
Subject: Re: Need assist with Olds ID 

In a message dated 96-07-16 16:36:34 EDT, you write:

>  Anyone know how to identify a 442 from the '72 VIN plate? I know
>there         is some question as far as mine is concerned. I've got 442
>fenders,
>        grill plates, and decklid. Glovebox has "Cutlass" emblem on it and
>interior doors have the "S" emblem on them. Vin plate indicates cutlass.
>
>

No way to tell from the VIN plate.  I'm thinking the glove box should have
442 on it, but the assembly manual only shows 4 scripts to be put there, F85,
Cutlass, Cutlass Supreme and Vista Cruiser.  Probably the same holds true for
the door panels.  It ain't hard to hang 442 badges on a car, change the
grilles, and you've just increased the value of your car.  Thought many times
of doing so to my '72 Supreme Convertible, but can't do it.  I'm too honest!

Option W-29 is the 442 Appearance and Handling Package.  Includes Body-Side
and Deck-lid striping, 442 Radiator Grille, Black Hood Louvers and Grille and
Deck-lid numerals, plus options FE2 (Rallye Suspension Package), and Y73
(Hood Paint Stripe Decal.  W39 (Performance, 3-Speed Floor, Hurst Shifter
included with Standard Syncromesh Transmission.  Available with any engine.
 Required with W30 (Performance Package).  N.A. with B84 (Protective-Side
Moldsings with Black-Vinyl Insert), or Y70 (Body-Side Paint Stripe), and J50
(Pedal-Ease Power Brakes) with L75 (Rocket 455 V8 Engine with 4-bbl carb.).

Price:
With W39 (Hurst Shifter)            $70.00
Without W39                            $29.00

No, that's not a typo.  In '72 a 442 would cost you just $29.00 more than a
standard Cutlass S.  

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 21:57:55 -0300
Subject: Re: Need assist with Olds ID 

In a message dated 96-07-16 15:47:13 EDT, you write:

> 3G87H12M-----. 

That'a a '72 VIN.  They didn't start the "3G87" bit until '72 and the "2M"
means it's a '72 build in the Lansing plant.  F & G are shown in the assembly
manual as "Cutlass".  I'm thinkin' G is for Cutlass S?  87 is the fastback
hardtop coupe.  H is for L32 350 2bbl.  Nothing shows that a '72 is a 442,
because it was a trim option and not a separate model like in years past.
 Sounds like this guy liked the looks of the '70 better that the '72 and
swapped out the rear bumper and front clip.  It may be a '72 442 (was
available with any engine, according to the spec book), but with that motor
if sure ain't a W30.  Definately sounds like it's a '72 and not a '70.

Paul

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 16:59:08 -0300
Subject: Re: '66 Toronado -- recent experiences

Paul Bartlett wrote:
> 
> The ELECTRIC WINDOW AND ELECTRIC SEAT on the 1966 Toronado stopped working
> again.   I
> finally found the solution -- an aftermarket relay made by "GENERAL" used
> for wiring accessory fog lights. 

> Paul Bartlett E-mail bartletp@osshe.edu


Paul:

Thanks for the advice on the GENERAL relay.  I'll get a spare soon after 
hearing your story of woes.

Those gold ones must be everywhere.  Mine is gold, but won't be long.  I 
hope to get it painted an original 1967 teal color before the summer is 
over.
- -- 
SLTG

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 22:22:05 -0300
Subject: Re: Need assist with Olds ID 

In a message dated 96-07-16 20:17:09 EDT, you write:

>All 4-4-2's in '72 had a 4
>BBL carb no matter which engine was ordered (350 or 455).  Therefore, I
>would have to say that this car does not have the 4-4-2 option based on the
>VIN.

Have to dispute this.  Factory literature says this:

Spec Book: Available with any engine.

Sales Catalog: Engine availability Rocket 350 V8, 2bbl carb. (L32);Rocket 350
V8, 4bbl Carb (L34); Rocket 455 V8 with dual exhausts (L75).  Fibreglass hood
also available with L34 or L75.  Also available, Performance Package (W30)
includes: High-performance L77 Rocket 455 V8 with 4bbl carb and dual
exhausts.  Forced cold-air induction system.  High-performance camshaft,
heavy duty radiator, fibreglass hood with functional air scoops and chromed
tie-downs.  Manual front disc brakes.  MUST ALSO BE ORDERED: Turbo
Hydra-matic 400 transmission or 4-spped wide-ratio floor-shift transmission,
anti-spin rear axle, wide-oval tires with raised letters, sports sideview
mirrors.

So, it's still possible that this is a '72 442, because they did come through
with the 350 2bbl and single exhaust.

>From what the spec book says, it looks like no 350 was available with dual
exhaust, only 455s.

Paul

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 22:49:17 -0300
Subject: Re: Need assist with Olds ID 

Ok guys, i've done alot of research on 72's and I can help you all.

3D87U2M00001
3 is for Oldsmobile
D is for F-85, F is cutlass, G is cutlass s,  J is Cutlass supreme and K is
Vista cruiser

87 is hardtop coupe, 77 is sports coupe (2dr pillar) , 69 is town sedan (4
dr)
67 is convertable, 66 is station wagon 3 seat vista,57 hardtop coupe,
39 hardtop sedan and 36 station wagon 2-seat

U is for 455 automatic trans engine code           M is for plant built such
Lansing  MICH
V is 455 stick                                                  Z is for
Fremont CA
X is 455 W-30 only                                           G is for
Framingham Mass
H is 350 2 bbl                                                   R is for
Arlington Texas
J is 350 2 bbl with dual exhaust
K is 350 4 bbl
M is 350 4 bbl with dual exhaust


W-29 was the 442 option for 72 and could be order on all cutlass models
except wagons.
350 442;s didn"t come standard with cutout bumper or gauges or anything
except stripes and logo on steel hood

455 cars came with only cutout bumpers and fe2 suspension with stripe kit all
others were options

W-30 came with hood and different stripes and FE2 suspension, no ac and
manual disc brakes and of 
course aluminum intake and oai air cleaner.

(W Machines)

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 23:08:17 -0300
Subject: Re: c'ya! 

At 02:03 PM 7/16/96 -0400, you wrote:
>As with others, I find that this is just too much fun. Consequently, other
[snip]
>Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist

sniff....   :(

Well, I knew the day would come, but I'm sorry to see it's here... Real life
is hard to deal with, and talking with other folks about 25 year old
collections of metal and plastic parts is a nice release, but sometimes gets
in the way. I know I'll miss your "Misc" columns, your expert advice (from
actual *experience* with what you're talking about), your wit (the puns on
this one were spent long ago) and your "true life" stories most of all.

>> Summit, however, had Crane chrome-moly hardened pushrods, 5/16" diam., at
>> 8.350" (+.100" over stock length) that fit the bill nicely, and for only
>> $82. That and a couple of packs of .030" rocker shims, and I should be in
>> business.
>
>You're welcome. I coulda swore I told ya to call Summit... -Chris-

Ooops, sorry to have left out the credit where credit was due. I *had* been
considering just adding a line to my .sig that said "Thanks to Chris Witt
for the advice on this one".

We look forward for a return (perhaps?), if and when real life settles down
for you. Good luck with your work/wife/cars/life.

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 23:35:54 -0300
Subject: Re: It's the rare one

Wow!!! I can hardly wait to see this extremely rare car.  Will be sure to save 
some film for it. See you in a couple weeks.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 23:43:22 -0300
Subject: Re: is this heat soak? 

At 07:38 PM 7/15/96 -0400, you wrote:
>After rebuiding the 350 2barrel in my `72 vista-cruiser in March a nasty
>little problem has arisen.  The starter won't crank the car after it's ran
>awhile at operating temperature.  The problem does't happen after it cools
>off at night and it didn't start happening until it started warming up in
>the spring.  

That's a heat-related problem, for sure...

>When I turn the key to start, the solonoid does not even click into place.
>The ammeter reads about a 20-25 amp discharge but that's the only reaction
>from the car when I turn the key.  I've heard that F-85s have trouble with
>overheating starters and I'm pretty sure the longer duration camshaft is
>causing the manifolds(stock) to get hotter than they did with the stock cam.
>It would make sense.  What I don't understand about my problem is that I can
>use a jumper wire (originally installed to bump the engine from under the
>hood) to crank the starter.  If the car won't crank when I turn the key I
>just pop the hood, touch the wire to the positive post and I'm on my way.
[snip]
>Thanks
>Greg Pruett

That doesn't sound like starter heat soak, but rather a wiring problem. The
wire that the jumper wire is replacing is loose/frayed
inside/melted/corroded/etc., and has increased resistance when hot. Your
starter seems fine. You don't say exactly what positive post (battery?
starter?) you are touching the jumper wire to, or what else you are
connecting it to.

Starter heat soak is when the components of the starter itself have
increased resistance at higher temperatures, and are unable to function
normally. The starter gets hot after the engine has been running for a while
and is shut off. Normally, the starter is cooled by the passing air, and the
engine is cooled by the water that is cooled by the passing air. When that
water stops circulating, and the air stops passing, the heat from the motor
"soaks" (is transferred) from the hotter parts to the cooler parts, one of
which is the starter. Since other parts also get hotter, the entire engine
compartment can increase in temperature, and the wires inside along with it.
That is what is happening to the damaged wire in your system.

Probably a minor problem, but more difficult and frustrating than a simple
starter (which, btw, may also be going, and offering such an increased
resistance that the damaged wire in your car is unable to turn it when it is
hot, but such that it can be turned by the juice from the undamaged jumper
wire. pull it just to check it out when you're under there).

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 23:43:20 -0300
Subject: Re: Need assist with Olds ID 

At 09:49 PM 7/16/96 -0400, you wrote:

[snip of extensive info]
>W-29 was the 442 option for 72 and could be order on all cutlass models
>except wagons.
>350 442;s didn"t come standard with cutout bumper or gauges or anything
>except stripes and logo on steel hood

Huh. So you could have a 4-dr Cutlass w/350 2-bbl, single exhaust, *and* the
442 option? Anyone seen one of those babies? (perhaps with the '72-only
flippin' dial radio? btw, mine's still for sale...)
>

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: <borlase@faith.gordonc.edu>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 00:54:48 -0300
Subject: Re: is this heat soak?

Greg,

The same thing happened to me many months after rebuilding my Rochester 
2gc.  But I think that it is unreleated.  I had the starter and voltage 
regulator replaced and car has been fine since.

Keep in touch.

Roger Borlase
http://www.microdata.com/rborlase

Roger Borlase
http://www.microdata.com/rborlase
http://www.microdata.com/rborlase/borlase.htm

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 00:05:47 -0300
Subject: Re: Need assist with Olds ID 

also quote from olds lit for 72 "W-29 availible with any engine,required with
W-30.
N.A. with B84, Y70,Y75and J50and L75 coupe  
with w39 cost 147.00
without w39 106.00

B84 is Moldings, Y70 is paint stripe NA w29 and w30, Y75 exterior sport
equipment
(NA w-29, w-30)
J50 brakes peadal-ease power_sedan and coupe NA with L75 or w30
l75 rocket 455 4bbl M20 or M40 required.  Dual exhaust system included. NA
with J50  See power teams

(W Machines) mark prince 72's only

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 00:11:50 -0300
Subject: Re: Need assist with Olds ID 

Yes they exist,  very rare ask Helen Early of olds History Musuem she will
tell 
you all about it.  Like I said, I have done extensive research on 72's


How about 72 Wagon Pace Cars    Two exist and lets see, have 455's and OAI
Hood
and FE2 suspension?????????????    


W MACHINES  72'S RULE

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 00:12:30 -0300
Subject: Heat Soak/Heat Shield 

I understand you can get a heat shield to prevent heat soak.

Is a heat shield a metal plate that is bolted to the block that
covers the solonoid and part of the starter.

I'm just curious.  I have one of these plates.  It came to my
attention, last week, when the positive cable at the starter grounded itself
to it and melted my battery cables.

While I was under the car fixing that.  I found that my broken
speedometer cable doesn't go to the tranny.  It goes to the front
driver's side wheel.  You learn something new every day.

I love my car.  I love my car.  I love my car.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-5450    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 00:19:52 -0300
Subject: Re: 68 Toro for sale 

> Just got a line on a 68 Toro for sale near Milwaukee.
> 
> Dk Green 
> 100K
> air
> 455....but has a cracked pistion (guy says it runs anyway...go figure)
> otherwise car sounds like it is in nice condition
> 
> but:
> only $500.00

I'm feeling a touch of that virus, but I can't deal with another car
right now.

I once had a Maverick, that was burning a little oil (over two quarts
a week).  When we tore the engine down, we found two broken pistons,
every oil ring was broken, and the plastic valve seals were in the
oil pan.  It still ran.  It didn't really run much better after we
rebuilt it, but it stopped burning oil.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-5450    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 02:41:50 -0300
Subject: Re: Need assist with Olds ID

Bob,
Is the flippin dial radio stereo or mono?  How much?

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 03:02:58 -0300
Subject: Re: 68 Toro for sale 

In a message dated 96-07-16 23:28:44 EDT, lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert
Lawrence) writes:

>I'm feeling a touch of that virus,

Look out Bob! Wer'e gonna get ya!  (sneezing in your direction!)   (:

Sparky

------------------------------

From: Nick DiGiovanni <ndigiova@direct.ca>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 03:14:47 -0300
Subject: Re: Need assist with Olds ID 

At 10:22 PM 7/16/96 -0300, you wrote:

>From what the spec book says, it looks like no 350 was available with dual
>exhaust, only 455s.

Actually, if you got engine VIN code J or M, then you got the 350 with N10
(dual exhaust).

I got my info from "Oldsmobile 4-4-2 & W-Machines Restoration Guide" and it
specifically states these SPOTTER TIPS:

- - A 350ci engine (standard) or 455ci engine (optional).
- - Four-barrel carburetor (for both engine options).
- - Dual-exhaust system standard.  The 455 has notched bumper with trumpet
extension.  The 350 4-4-2s usually do not; however, this could have been
ordered or added later.
- - Front and rear sway bars with boxed lower rear control arms.
- - Letter G cast on front of left cylinder head and rear of right cylinder
head on the 455.  Number 7 cast on the 350.
- - Special air cleaner decal (4-4-2).
- - The fiberglass Ram Air hood (W-25) could be ordered on both the 350 and
455 4-4-2s in '72.

>So, it's still possible that this is a '72 442

Yes I know what options were available through the factory literature but
that does not mean that any were actually produced/sold as a 2bbl.  Sure,
anything is possible but that would have to be a pretty rare car based on
the 'spotter tips'.  I would tend to believe that this car is not a 4-4-2
because of all the other things that seem to have been changed on it ie.
rear bumper, tail lights, front clip etc.




 
Nick DiGiovanni
Port Coquitlam, B.C.
1970 4-4-2 - "Snarls Softly and Carries a Big Kick"

------------------------------

From: ndg@traverse.com (Nielsen Design Group)
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 09:35:56 -0300
Subject: Delmont 

Hello all,

A friend of a friend picked up a '67 Delmont convertible
with a non-orig (obviously) 455.

Aren't these pretty rare cars?

I will try to get over to see it soon; what should I look
for on this car? It's not for sale, but I could take some
photos of it for the website if it is indeed a rarity.

- -Darren Shroeger
 '68 442 / 4 speed

Nielsen Design Group
114 East Front Street
Traverse City, Michigan 49684
616.946.0925
ndg@traverse.com

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 11:41:53 -0300
Subject: Faux W30, etc.

> tightened lug nuts with plenty of oil on the threads and under the heads of
> the bolts I was tightening.  Never had a fastener fail yet.  But of course,
> there is a first time for everything!
> Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme

On my first Olds rebuild, I snapped off a main bearing bolt. I rlied on my
memory [last time I did that!], which told me the tork was 120 ft#... but this
was a small block, where the #1-4 bolts are but *80* ft#! ooooops.

> Yep!  Look for the guy in the Turquoise '67 98 Coupe with a bashed in
> passenger front fender in the unrestored class.  That should be me.  I doubt
> there'll be another one.
> Paul

Hey, I have a 67 98 LS parts car! Too bad the rust ate the fenders. Need any
non-rusty items? -Chris-

> > Might have to put a contract out on
> >him to get his attention.  You'd be surprised how cooperative a person gets
> >if
> >his knees are going to get nailed to the floor.
>
> No wonder the NAOC doesn't want you Cutlass guys in their club! :)

"Hey, nice REO you got there... is it insured? Maybe you'd like to buy some
more insurance, ya never know what could happen, you know..." Protection, for
the old cars...

> > I am restoring a '70 Cutlass 2 door sedan(many call it a post coupe)and
> > am interested in any info I can compile especialy how many of this style

> Write the Olds History Museum.
> 240 Museum Drive
> Lansing, MI 48912

Good call, except, what you really want is the Olds History Center, not the
REOlds Transportation Museum!. I believe the OHC is at mail stop 1040, 920
Townsend, Lansing, MI 48910. Helen Early is your contact there. As spec'd, send
the VIN, and see what you get! -Chris-

> From: Roger Saladin <rsaladin@bright.net>
> Subject: Help with Olds ID
>
> I'm going to be looking at an Olds in the next couple days, and need some
> help with ID. I've seen it from the outside (nothing under hood, nor the
> inside except thru the windows). Talked to the guy on the phone, it belongs
> to a relative. Car is orange, says 442, and W-30 on the sides. Guy selling
> says it's a '72, 350 engine.
>    Now the fun part. I've got a '72 Cutlass, '72 it definitely ain't!
> I'm thinking '70 - it's got the twin vertical bar taillights on each side,
> and the center of the grill comes up with the hood. So does '70 sound right?

What you have there is a hodgepodge of parts. A faked-up W30 with a '72 body, a
'70 bumper?, who know how many other, hidden  sins, probably a small block
Ch*vy motor... Fool the Olds-impaired, but not an enthusiast. Does it even have
the cutouts in the bumper for the chromed exhaust trumpets?

>    If it's a 350 engine, it certainly isn't W-30. But if the guy can be off
> by two years, I'm sure he can be off by 105 cubic inches. What's the
> quick and easy way to tell the difference between them? And is there an
> easy way to tell a standard 455 from a W-30?

Yeah, except in 1972. 1970: F heads are W30, E heads are lesser; 1971: H heads
= W30, G heads = lesser; 1972: all got Ga heads. I'll send you a more complete
engine ID guide.

>    For what it's worth, if anybody has the magic decoder ring (and it works
> for that year), the VIN starts 3G87H12M-----.  I know 3 is for Olds, maybe
> the 87 is for 442? What else?   Roger

According to _442 by the Numbers_, you have a... well, first off you have too
many digits in that VIN, but assuming the "1" is a mistake, cuz the "G##" stuff
did not start until '72... you have...
G87 = Cutlass S hartop Coupe, series 3687
H = 350-2V, single xst engine, L32, bottom of the line. Cheeseball.
2 = 1972 year of issue
M =  built in Lansing, MI

Anyone can buy a set of W30 chrome things and attach them. Is the Cold-air
induction hood there, and the special air cleaner lid with a flap door to let
cold air in?

> > Local junk yards?  No such thing.  We have a salvage yard that only
> > deals in foreign cars.  Other than that, I have to travel at least 200 miles
> > to the nearest big city (Las Vegas, NV), and they've just closed down all
> > but two of their junk yards and scrapped all the cars.  Some kind of city
> > cleanup project or something...  The next closest place is Salt Lake City,

OK, what the heck becomes of all the cars that die in your area, then?

>      I never bought the book (now almost glad I didn't ;^), but I do have
> his catalog.  So, is his 64cc listing for the 7 head the one that goes with th
> appropriate '71-'72 casting number (409147)?
>                      -->   Bob Valentine  <--

Ayep, otherwise, 7a=7.

> > I have him crank it up in the air and slip underneath and, lo, car is in
> > one forward and one reverse gear! I pull both rods back to neutral, hop in
> > to see what's up, and in few minutes I am on my way home!
>
> My goofy question now is -- could that happen with an automatic??

Nope.

> I'm looking for a ram-air hood for my '72 Cutlass S. Does anyone know which
> models/years are interchangeable, or know if anyone makes a fiberglass
> aftermarket hood? The car's original hood has chrome louvers on either side,
> I just never liked those things.
> Todd Hall

71 & 2 are the same, repros are about $450.

> was worried about like the manifold-mounted remote choke (I know,
> Chris W., you don't like these, but, hey, it's the way they came) and the

When they work, they are a fine unit. There's a reason they only used that
design 2-3 years...

> Finally the moment of truth... time to try and start it. We managed to get
> the timing off 180 degrees the first time, but finally it caught and roared to

That *always* happens! might as well just flip it 180 to begin with :)

> Bob Handren
> P.S. I expect to meet you at the 100th celebration next year.  Right?

Thanks, Bob!
Would hope to have the both cars presentable by then.

>         Anyone know how to identify a 442 from the '72 VIN plate? I know
> there         is some question as far as mine is concerned. I've got 442
> fenders,
>         grill plates, and decklid. Glovebox has "Cutlass" emblem on it and
> interior doors have the "S" emblem on them. Vin plate indicates cutlass.
>         Todd Hall

"the 442 option was available on the following:
F87, G77, G87, J67" body styles. 'Course one of them might NOT have been a 442
optioned car as well...

> All that aside, what shape are the front turn signals? Am I right in
> thinking that the 1970 ones are square, and '71-'72 are round?
> Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431

Front ones, yeah.

> I got a used SPRING FOR HINGE ON DRIVER'S DOOR.  The spring is 6.25" long

Cool, where'd you find one of those? :)

> 455....but has a cracked pistion (guy says it runs anyway...go figure)

"cracked piston"... I'll have to add that to the list of definitions... find
out what it really means, eh?

> Take care!  WE LOVE YA MAN!
> Greg K   aka  Sparky

Yeah, you're *still* not gettin' my tri-power....

> From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
> Subject: is this heat soak?
>
> After rebuiding the 350 2barrel in my `72 vista-cruiser in March a nasty
> little problem has arisen.  The starter won't crank the car after it's ran
> awhile at operating temperature.  The problem does't happen after it cools
> off at night and it didn't start happening until it started warming up in
> the spring.

That's heat soak allright.
Replace the starter & solenoid.

> There is no special numbers for a 72 442 as the previous years. In 72 the 442
> option was numbers and stripes. It came with a 350 engine unless you wanted to
> order a 455.
> Art Fuller

Ah, but this car claimed to be a W30.... whole nother ball game there...


> We came onto a Carter carb # 7037931 D-29. I believe it is off a 66 or 67
> Toro. It also has stamped Carter made for Quadrajet on it. I heard that
> Carter did make carbs for Rochester, but this is the first one I ever came
> across. They have a rather unique way of sealing the well plugs in that there
> are crimped over the sides instead of just pressed in as Rochester did.
>
> I just need to know what year Toro it wll fit.
> Greg Kalkhoff

3rd digit after the 7... the 7, indicates 1967. -Chris-

> Went to school down the street from your house in the early 60's. I was a
> Findlay Oiler. I'm from Middletown originally, but have lived in Texas for ove
> Art Fuller
> Ex Oiler

That's *good*, art, there's nothing I hate more than a squeaky or sticking
Findlay! We need Findlay oilers! :)

> The letter H denotes a 350 CU.IN. 2BBL (L32).  All 4-4-2's in '72 had a 4
> BBL carb no matter which engine was ordered (350 or 455).  Therefore, I
> would have to say that this car does not have the 4-4-2 option based on the VI
> Nick DiGiovanni

Case closed. Armed with this info, you can drive the price into the ground, if
indeed you are even interested in buying such a thing.

- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 17:20:50 -0300
Subject: Re: is this heat soak?

Greg,

I was talking with a friend of mine about a computer problem with his 
Chubby.  Seems it just shuts down every so often for no reason at all.  
He was wondering if it was temperature related so I was telling him how 
I used to troubleshoot thermal problems in electronic equipment using a 
hair dryer and freon (ok, environmentalists: -- BOOO!).

Later, it occured to me why you couldn't apply the same principle to 
troubleshooting this so-called "heat-soak" problem.  Since the starter 
and solenoid are sealed, why not direct cold water from a garden hose 
onto the them until your sure they're cooled down.  Without raising the 
hood, I would squirt water from up under the car.  Try NOT to cool down 
anything but the starter/solenoid, if possible.

Then see if it starts.  If it does: starter/solenoid bad; if not: prolly 
wiring.

Opinions?  (like I really need to ask)


The 66 Toro and Mike

- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 12:28:11 -0300
Subject: Junkyards (was: Faux W30, etc.)

> > Local junk yards?  No such thing.  We have a salvage yard that only
> > deals in foreign cars.  Other than that, I have to travel at least 200

>OK, what the heck becomes of all the cars that die in your area, then?

OK, I lied... but not intentionally.  I just found out about one more junk
yard in my area.  It deals with american cars, but only 1980 - 90's (and
they don't even have a good selection.  200 cars, tops).  Everything else
gets scrapped.  They can, however, find parts at other junkyards
across the nation, but they add the cost of shipping onto the final price. 
So used parts are usually more expensive than brand new ones.  So no
matter how you look at it, I live in a worthless corner of the world.

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 11:27:14 -0300
Subject: Preemptive Apology 

I'm getting feedback that indicates that all the email I sent last Sunday
to places including this list, and which vanished and was guaranteed lost
by our idiot sysadmins, and which was re-sent by me after about 24 hours,
is suddenly appearing at its destinations. So if you start getting deja vu
all over again from postings of mine which may be appearing here today,
you're not going crazy; I am. Sorry about that.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Doug Ahern <doug@cobra.cosmic.uga.edu>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 12:57:30 -0300
Subject: 10 bolt rear axles

are 64-67 A-body 10 bolt rear axles interchangable with 68-72 A-body
axles?  or any other year/model GM rear end?

Doug Ahern      doug@cosmic.uga.edu  1964 F-85 Cutlass 
http://www.cosmic.uga.edu/doug.html  1969 Dart 
Sys Admin, COSMIC, Univ. of Georgia  1974 Satellite ex-cop car

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 13:15:22 -0300
Subject: Olds History Center/Goodbye Chris 

That was me who gave out the wrong address for the Olds History Center.
For my penance I'll repeat the following section of the FAQ five times.

> ----- Oldsmobile History Center -----
> 920 Townsend ST
> Lansing, Michigan 48921-0001

> Write to the Oldsmobile History Center, tell them the year and model of 
> your Olds, and they'll send you, among other things, a price list.  On 
> it will be a list of all the options available for your car, the codes 
> (weird looking numbers like B02 and C7), and their prices.

> The History Center can also provide, for cars built from 1977 on, a copy 
> of the original selling invoice for your car, which will be able to tell 
> you the dealer from which the car was originally purchased and what 
> options were on the car when it left the factory. 

and add the following information:

Oldsmobile History Center
Mail Stop 1040
Oldsmobile Division
920 Townsend St.
Lansing, MI 48921-0001
(517) 885-1502
Hours: 7 - 11 AM

As Chris mentioned, Helen Early is your contact there.

Uh.. Chris have you just not left yet, or are you back already?

I'd say goodbye, but I remember the last time you "left".

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-5450    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: "AUVAX7::RILES" <RILES%AUVAX7.decnet@auscam.amd.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 13:58:00 -0300
Subject: '71 "Miss America" Cutlass Convertible

Hello Oldsers,

I own a '71 Cutlass convertible that was originally used by the Miss America 
Pageant in New Jersey.  I understand that many (50?) convertibles were used by 
the pageant in parades, then returned to the dealer and sold as demos.  

Is there anyone else out there who has any details on this, or owns a "Miss 
America" car?  I have the original bill of sale, but I'm not the original 
owner.

Robert Iles
robert.iles@amd.com

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 17:19:44 -0300
Subject: Re: '71 "Miss America" Cutlass Convertible

AUVAX7::RILES wrote:
> 
> I own a '71 Cutlass convertible that was originally used by the Miss 
> America Pageant in New Jersey...

Yeah, somebody asked about this some time ago.  Anybody still have the 
old posts from the last go-around on this subject to help Bob out?

(Geez, talk about deja vu, Andy!)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Piotr Trzeciak <pt@cut4.mech.pk.edu.pl>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 14:13:48 -0300
Subject: Question about Oldsmobile web site

Hallo,

	I've just visited the Oldsmobile web site. I've seen
Olds in action (.mov files). Then, I entered the "360o View"
section and I took the "wirtual walk" around the Cutlass Supreme,
using Shockwave plug-in. I'd be quite happy BUT: I have 14 inch
monitor, and views are very small and unclear. I've spotted,
that files used by Shockwave have .dcr extension.

	Here is my question: how can I edit these .dcr files
on my computer? Is there any public domain/freeware/shareware
program for editing such files? I'd like to "rotate" a bit
larger car on my pc. Could you advice me anything?

I appreciate your help

regards

Piotr Trzeciak

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 23:41:12 -0300
Subject: Re: Need assist with Olds ID - Summary for '72

Boy did his cause a stir. Anyway if I could just conclude this post with a summary for a '72 Cutlass. And I say 
Cutlass because every '72 whether 442 or Cutlass is a Cutlass, period, and don't let anyone lead you believe otherwise, 
they are just lying or just plain ignorgant. I hate when they do that!

Summary:

The code signifies a '72 hardtop with a 350 engine 2BBL. This car is not a W-30. Further, the rear bumper for '72 
should have 4 light lenses, each made up with 3 squares. The front bumper turn sig's should be round. The hood should 
not have a lip in the middle that is part of the grills as it is for the '70 models. 

The interior of a '72 Cutlas/442 are the same. The glove box does not carry a separate decal only Cutlass or Cutalss 
Supreme, not 442 as in the 70 or 71 years. 

'72 Cutlasses came with a 350 as standard you could order a 455 (option). It also came with the 2BBL unless it had dual 
exhaust in which case the 4BBL may have been used. But a 2BBL with dual exhaust is still possible but I havn't seen any 
as of yet.  It is also not true that all 442's came with a 4BBL, in fact probably most were all 2bbl's.

In '72, 442 was an option only. In fact '71 was the last year that a 442 model was made. 442 for a '72 was just an 
appearance and handling package that you would order or buy through the dealer.  A '72 Cutlass could be made to carry 
the 442 decals without any worry of affecting the status of the car's worth, in fact it will increase the value. ANd no 
one could say that it was not a 442. And if they do they don't know what they are talking about. Think of it like 
adding an AM/FM steroe to replace the AM only, or adding a/c to a non-a/c'd car. It's just an option that's all. That's 
the advantage of a '72 over it earlier years. Can't do that with a '71 or earlier, the model is part of the VIN code, 
that's what give away a fake to a true modeled car.

'72 is the most difficult year to diagnosis as to originality, since the VIN code only mentions the more critical parts 
of the car such as body style and engine. Becarefull when presented with original '72 models especially the W-30 ones. 
There were not many and those that do exist are very rare to come by.

Roger, this car is quite obvious  that it is not what it appears to be. If the W-30 is shown then one would at least 
expect a 455. Don't let the seller fool you. I would be very curious to ask how much they are asking? I any event argue 
 the point that this car is hardly close to original and that it is a fake. I wouldn't be too worried about the 442 
decal just the W-30 one and the fact that the entire front clip and rear bumper have been changed to what a I think is 
a '70 model. 

- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: Nick DiGiovanni <ndigiova@direct.ca>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 13:42:48 -0300
Subject: Re: c'ya! 

Chris,

We will surely miss you on this list.  I hope you can make it back on soon
and if you can't then the name "The Rocket Scientist" will be made into
Legend Status in my book ;^)

Nick DiGiovanni
Port Coquitlam, B.C.
1970 4-4-2 - "Snarls Softly and Carries a Big Kick"

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 13:48:07 -0300
Subject: Re: Need assist with Olds ID - Summary for '72 

>I any event argue the point that this car is hardly close to original 
>and that it is a fake. I wouldn't be too worried about the 442 decal 
>just the W-30 one and the fact that the entire front clip and rear 
>bumper have been changed to what a I think is a '70 model. 

There is one other possibility that just occurred to me: There's a
company out there somewhere (Ohio, I think it might have been) that
specialized in restoring '70's cars and converting them into semi-real
muscle-car variants; e.g. they'd buy old Cutlasses and turn them into
442s, LeMans into GTOs and that sort of thing. But they also standardized
the conversions quite a bit in order to make it cost effective and able
to be maintained and supported at least through the warranty period, so
one major change was that all the cars got freshly-rebuilt Chevy 350s.
I assume this is most likely not one of those cars, but I see no reason
why they couldn't be passed off as genuine to naive purchasers further
down the line. I think the price tag was something like $25K per car,
though... oh, and for some reason they'd stick a generic steering wheel 
on it, too... I think Car & Driver did a feature on this outfit a few
years ago.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 18:15:25 -0300
Subject: Re: Question about Oldsmobile web site

Piotr Trzeciak wrote:

> I edit these .dcr files on my computer? 

P.T.

Dunno but why don't you pose the question 
directly to them at OldsHeidi@aol.com

The 66 Toro and Mike

- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 00:23:47 -0300
Subject: Re: '72 442's (was: Need assist with Olds ID)

Blaine Sanders 5483 wrote:
> 
> >>>> <mefco@sprynet.com> 07/16/96 04:12pm >>>
> >Todd,
> >There is no special numbers for a 72 442 as the previous years. In 72
> >the 442
> >option was numbers and stripes. It came with a 350 engine unless you
> >wanted to
> >order a 455.
> >
> >Art Fuller
> 
> Anyone know where I can find a picture of this paint job?  I'd like to see
> what it looked like...

Blaine, my '72 442 has been painted with the correct '72 442 (non-W-30) paint stripping. I plan on taking a picture 
and putting it up on the 442 web page but I havn't had a chance. But I do have the olds engineers blue print of the 
paint striping for a '72 (non-w-30), which includes the stripes measurements for width's. I also have the '70 442 
w-30 as well. If you  have a fax handy I could fax it to you or better yet if there is enough interest I could scan 
this in and may be publish it on the 442 web site. Do we have any interest for that guys/gals?

- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 00:48:31 -0300
Subject: Re: Need assist with Olds ID - Summary for '72

Well $25K is not unrealistic, given the captialistic approach they use. It will usually take about $10-12K for 
lets say an avid hobbist to rebuild his car to an almost concourse show quality. Given that you start with a 
decent car, which this company you state does. I saw this on TV once also. So it would probably cost them about 
the same as they would you the same parts suppliers as we would, i.e Year One, Fusick..etc. Put a  100% markup 
and you get to $25K. It's the markup part that I don't like about this. 

- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 16:00:29 -0300
Subject: Re: 10 bolt rear axles 

In a message dated 96-07-17 12:09:34 EDT, you write:

<< 
 are 64-67 A-body 10 bolt rear axles interchangable with 68-72 A-body
 axles?  or any other year/model GM rear end?
 
 Doug Ahern      doug@cosmic.uga.edu  1964 F-85 Cutlass 
 http://www.cosmic.uga.edu/doug.html  1969 Dart 
 Sys Admin, COSMIC, Univ. of Georgia  1974 Satellite ex-cop car
  >>

Doug:

Just what about them are you asking?  The entire housings will swap.  The
64-67 are like 1/4" narrower.  But at 1/8" per side that means for all intent
and purposes they are the same.

_Most_ of the axle shafts will swap as long as they have the same spline
count.

This _excludes_ 10 bolt "C" axle shafts (as in Ch*vy) which are unique in
that they have an internal "C" clip to retain the axle in the housing and use
a roller bearing in the tube end.  This is as opposed to a bearing which is
pressed onto the axle and then bolted to the tube end as most other sane
manufacturers do.

Ever seen a Ch*vy on the side of the road with the broken axle sticking 2-3
feet out of the housing?  Oh no Mr. Bill!!!!!!

Bob Handren
'67 W-30 Modified
'70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

------------------------------

From: Todd Hall <thall@en.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 17:08:44 -0300
Subject: Re: Need assist with Olds ID - Summary for '72 

At 11:41 PM 7/16/96 -0300, you wrote:

>
>'72 Cutlasses came with a 350 as standard you could order a 455 (option).
It also came with the 2BBL unless it had dual 
>exhaust in which case the 4BBL may have been used. But a 2BBL with dual
exhaust is still possible but I havn't seen any 
>as of yet.  It is also not true that all 442's came with a 4BBL, in fact
probably most were all 2bbl's.

This is exactly what mine came with (350 2bbl w/duel exhaust). So now you've
seen one....sorta.  
I was convinced the car was not a 442 because of the 2bbl and the Cutlass
glove box decal. Had I known what I had I probably would have used stock parts.
'Course I was 17 when I rebuilt the engine and didn't care about
originality, just burnin up St. Joe's parking lot :)

Todd Hall
Cleveland, OH
'72 Cutlass nowthinkinmaybea442







 

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 15:37:28 -0300
Subject: Re: '72 442's (was: Need assist with Olds ID)

At 12:23 AM 7/17/96 -0300, you wrote:
or better yet if there is enough interest I could scan 
>this in and may be publish it on the 442 web site. Do we have any interest
for that guys/gals?
>
>-- 
>Regards
>Fernando Proietto
>
Yes, I would be interested...
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 17:45:53 -0300
Subject: Miss America - '70 olds question (fwd)

Here was the message from a while back about the Miss America car. Susan 
is no longer on the list, unfortunately, however you can try emailing her 
directly.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada


- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 09:19:42 -0300
From: Susan Pitts <stp8n@virginia.edu>
To: oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: '70 olds question

I own a '70 olds convertible with the high output engine, bench seats, and
air conditioning which is unusual for this car.  I have always been told
that there were only 50 made like this for the Miss America pagent that year
in New Jersey.  I'm trying to get some confirmation about this.  It's gold
with a black top and seems to have been manufactured to endure the slow
pagent speeds.  Any confirmation or comments you have, please send.

P.S.  It was actually my father's olds, but that's what makes it even more
special!  Drove it to work today, beautiful weather upper 70's, top will be
down when I go to lunch!
A FELLOW OLDS LOVER --
'70 CUTLASS SUPREME CONVERTIBLE
'87 442 (My husband's car)

------------------------------

From: "AUVAX7::RILES" <RILES%AUVAX7.decnet@auscam.amd.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 17:44:00 -0300
Subject: Texas Olds Cruise-Ins

Does anyone out there from Texas (or from anywhere) know of any Olds cruise-ins 
this fall in Texas?  I'd be interested in caravan-ing to any major Texas city.

Robert Iles
'71 Cutlass Convertible
Austin, Tx.

------------------------------

From: Ken <rottin@en.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 17:00:03 -0300
Subject: [Fwd: Toronado, 425..]

X-Mozilla-Status: 0001
Message-ID: <31EC5AA2.954@en.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 23:14:42 -0400
From: Ken <rottin@en.com>
Organization: K&D Holland Trucking
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: oldsmobile@cnn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: Toronado, 425.. 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I have a friend that wants to sell a 73 Toronado.  I'ts about rusted 
to the ground, and filled with bullet holes, ect..  We couldnt get the 
hood open.  I was wondering what the chances are that there is a 455 in 
that baby.  And if so, would it be a good motor to build?  I also have a 
1967 425 with the 39! lifter angle.  Will I be able to use the crank and 
rods from a 455 in the 39! block?  Would I want to?  as opposed to 
building the (might be) '73 455?

I even confused myself with this one.. heh

Ken
1967 442 Convertible

------------------------------

From: RbtNeumann@aol.com
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 18:52:48 -0300
Subject: 71 442 frameable picture 

Was in a hobby shop today and saw some older posters of musclecars.  I sorted
through them and found a really good picture of a 71 442  W30...and bought it
thinking that someone on this list would like it.  The picture itself is
fairly high quality on poster stock and is about 16"x20"...perfect for
framing and hanging in the den, office, or rec room.  The car itself is gold
with black striping and black interior...ram air hood and rear spoiler. It
has a gray rock background...looks like they took the picture in a rock
quarry.  If anyone wants it respond with address and $10 and I'll mail it to
you promptly...if someone wants it framed, I could do that to your liking,
but it would cost considerably more and mailing would be a problem.  If no
one wants it, fine by me...I'll keep it!

- -Aaron

------------------------------

From: RbtNeumann@aol.com
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 18:51:11 -0300
Subject: Norwalk report 

The Mondello Old Nationals this weekend was fantabulous!  Very well run and
very professional.  I'd say maybe 150 442's and Cutlasses, with a Delmont or
50's car thrown in here and there.  They ranged from perfect
right-off-the-line condition to draggers that were all go and no show.  So
awesome runners...some guy did a wheelstand for the first 100 feet of strip
and almost landed it on the guard rail...the announcer was going
nuts...screamin' "that's the awesomest display I've seen in my nineteen years
of motorsports!"  Mondello was there signing stuff as well as Dick Miller
Racing and Batten Performance, among other vendors.  Free pig roast and
excellent weather...I'd recommend this event to any Olds lover...especially
anyone who drags.  

I hit the strip for the first time ever with the 72 Delta 88 Conv and smogger
350...it ran about 18.5 at 75 mph...I think I was the slowest one there, but
I had a blast...it was bracket racing and I got to the second round of
eliminations.  You could easily run 8 time trials in the morning so for $25,
you really get your money's worth.

Now about you guys that said you were gonna show...did you?  I looked for
Dink in his 80 Delta 88...went up to some guy who was racing one...the only
one...and asked him if his name was Dink...he laughed in my face and said
"nope, my name's Sandy."  Nice guy.  As for Ken...didn't see any cars exactly
like the one you described as yours, but some came close.  And Mark...there
was so many 442's like yours there that you probably just camoflaged right
in...sorry if I missed you.  

Well, people came all the way from Florida to go to this thing...so next year
hopefully I'll see more of you there!  

- -Aaron

------------------------------

From: RbtNeumann@aol.com
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 18:50:20 -0300
Subject: Re: net v. gross HP (was Re: 350 to 455 conversion - Part 2) 

Thanks for clearing that up for me, Doug...you were right...I read the fine
print in my Chilton's manual and it does say that starting in 72 they used
SAE net HP.  I went to the strip for the first time (see Norwalk post) and
now that I've got some numbers, I can compute my real HP.  I know there is an
equation using strip times (or speeds), car weight, and gear ratios
(including tire size) to compute HP (SAE net, I'm guessing).  Does anyone
know this equation?  I've seen it before in that book on car related math.
 Thanks.

- -Aaron

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 19:08:23 -0300
Subject: Re: 10 bolt rear axles 

At 03:00 PM 7/17/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Ever seen a Ch*vy on the side of the road with the broken axle sticking 2-3
>feet out of the housing?  Oh no Mr. Bill!!!!!!
>
>Bob Handren
>'67 W-30 Modified
>'70 SX Convertible
>Oviedo, FL

Yeah, I've seen the tire about 3' out from the side of the car, but out the
side-view mirror of my '68 Caprice! And I thought the Powerglide just
started slipping real bad! Luckily I had just come *off* a 70mph shakedown
run on the highway, and was only pulling slowly away from a light...

BTW, the hint that this might happen to you is a faint moan from the rear
axle when backing up (mine made no noise going forward).

Moral of the story: stick with your Olds rear.

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 19:08:25 -0300
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Toronado, 425..] 

At 04:00 PM 7/17/96 -0400, you wrote:
>I have a friend that wants to sell a 73 Toronado.  I'ts about rusted 
>to the ground, and filled with bullet holes, ect..  We couldnt get the 
>hood open.  I was wondering what the chances are that there is a 455 in 
>that baby.  And if so, would it be a good motor to build?  I also have a 
>1967 425 with the 39! lifter angle.  Will I be able to use the crank and 
>rods from a 455 in the 39! block?  Would I want to?  as opposed to 
>building the (might be) '73 455?

That '73 will definitely have a 455 stock.

Yes, the 455 crank&rods will make your '67 425 (from a Toro/Starfire) into a
455. Keep those heads from the '67, though!

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 20:31:09 -0300
Subject: Re: Texas Olds Cruise-Ins

Robert,
The North Texas Oldsmobile Club is having their car show in September. Don't 
have the date in front of me. A few of the Austin people usually come up for the 
show.

Art Fuller
Chapter Rep. N.T.O.C.

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 20:33:43 -0300
Subject: Re: Miss America - '70 olds question (fwd)

Don't know much about a Miss America car, but I have a convertible that once 
carried Miss Springtown, Texas in a parade.

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 20:37:52 -0300
Subject: Re: 71 442 frameable picture

Aaron,
I'll send you $10 if you'll tell me where to send it.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: Ken <rottin@en.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 20:00:03 -0300
Subject: Re: Norwalk report

RbtNeumann@aol.com wrote:
> one...and asked him if his name was Dink...he laughed in my face and said
> "nope, my name's Sandy."  Nice guy.  As for Ken...didn't see any cars exactly
> like the one you described as yours, but some came close.  And Mark...there
> was so many 442's like yours there that you probably just camoflaged right
> in...sorry if I missed you.
> 
> Well, people came all the way from Florida to go to this thing...so next year
> hopefully I'll see more of you there!
> 
> -Aaron


  I saw you, wasnt sure so didnt come up to ya..  Your 88 is Dk. Blue 
rite?  I got there too late and they wouldnt let me race, but I agree 
100%, it was awesome.. The swap meet area was a laff though.. :(  I got 
my tee-shirt signed by Joe Mondello and picture w/ him too. 

  Did you see the Orange '67?  was running 12.20's thru the pipes w/ 
street tires.. Very nice indeed.. :)

  On a slightly different note, I'm in a serous battle with afew 
friends and maybe u guys can help back me up.  They insist that my 442 
wont break 14's.. I think it should be a mid 14 second car as it sits.. 
1967 442 Convertible (1967 425 which is stock, headers, 4 speed manual 
trans, 4.11 posi rear end)  Any ballpark figures on what a car so 
equiped should run?  I know it's heavy, and maybe the 4 speed gives me a 
false sence of speed, but damned if it doesnt put ya back in the seat 
when ya stomp on it.. 


Ken
Cleveland, Oh 
1967 442 Convertible

------------------------------

From: Graham Stewart <graham.stewart@utoronto.ca>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 00:47:38 -0300
Subject: Re: Heat Soak/Heat Shield

> While I was under the car fixing that.  I found that my broken
> speedometer cable doesn't go to the tranny.  It goes to the front
> driver's side wheel.  You learn something new every day.
> 
> I love my car.  I love my car.  I love my car.
> 

Robert:

Yup they did that in full size Olds TH400 from 65-70 (or 69 depending on the 
source).  Starting in 71 it goes to the tranny.  Other GM divisions used the tranny to 
speedometer (or cruise regulator) cable froom 65.  So this can help you ID a 
problem if, for example, someone sticks a Buick TH400 on your Olds as they did in 
the distant past to my 69 Delta 88.  In that case they didn't bother to deal with the 
incompatability.  OK.   It's a 67 transmission too, so it's got that variable pitch 
stator (not hooked up, of course).  

I love my cars.

74 Ninety-Eight (The Smog King)
69 Delta 88 convertible (in pieces)
69 Delta 88 (parts car for above, no engine or tranny, the guy I bought it from took   
                    the 455 out and put it in his 82 Cutlass)
67 Buick Wildcat (loneliest of the bunch)

Graham Stewart
graham.stewart@utoronto.ca

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #240
********************************

