
oldsmobile-digest          Thursday, 25 July 1996       Volume 01 : Number 246


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Bob Valentine <ravalent@liii.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 01:45:49 -0300
Subject: Re: New Motor Considerations

On Tue, 23 Jul 1996, David Brown wrote:

> Have you considered hypereutectic (I think that's spelled right).  From 
> what I have read and heard, still cast, stronger than regular cast though, 
> cheaper than forged, yet you can run the same tight piston to bore 
> clearence as cast.  You don't have the piston slap of forged when cold, and 
> better emissions due to less clearence.  Considerations for a daily driver. 

     Yes, but I wasn't aware that anyone made them for a 350 Olds - I've 
only seen them for Ch*vy's and Fords....

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                    --> ravalent@liii.com  <--
        "Experience varies directly with equipment ruined"

------------------------------

From: JJF97@uno.cc.geneseo.edu
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 10:01:49 -0300
Subject: Resto Tips .....

for all of you city slickers, and country hicks.....
i'm sure you can figure out many uses for vasoline (petrolium jelly),
but here's another.....

when you are working on detailing parts with paint (ie. under the hood
detailing), put some of the vasoline on the parts you don't want paint
on.  when you're done painting, just wipe it off!  a clean surface once again!

Similar to this, use a hevy coat of wax on parts and / or the body of the car.
if there is overspray, it will land on the wax.   When you're done, wipe off 
the wax and you have a nice, clean,  freshly waxed surface.

(other masking material includes:  plastic wrap, aluminum foil, rags, tape,
grease, cardboard, etc.   with this and a little patiences, your detailing 
will be superb!)


Resto Corner




P.S.  If you have any ideas you'ld like to share and help "the new guy", it
would be greatly appreciated.

   If you have

------------------------------

From: Allen_R_MONROE@umail.umd.edu (am39)
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 09:38:00 -0300
Subject: Re: RE: 455 Questions -Reply 

Snip

>My 455 is red.  This appears to be the original color, as I scraped through
>the 1/2 in. of gunk on the block then used brake cleaner to blast away
>the residue... and it is red, red, red.  There is no trace of any other
color.
>But the FAQ says that '69 455's were blue.
>
I believe the FAQ is wrong and I ment to send a message about this before,
but I believe that the 68 and 69 455's were red. Starting in 70 the 455's
were blue.


Allen
69 & 73 H/O's

Allen R. MONROE
Email:Allen_R_MONROE@umail.umd.edu (am39)
Advanced Physics Teaching Laboratories
Phone:301-405-6004

------------------------------

From: curly@sgi.net
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 10:33:39 -0300
Subject: RE: 455 vs 425 

At 10:16 PM 7/23/96 -0300, you wrote:
>I still feel that the Olds engine in general is limited by the head so that
the 455 with its larger displacement would have the edge ( notice I said
edge ). I have put together Batten head equiped Olds in the past and I would
then agree the forged crank of a 425 is needed to withstand the strain that
the engine  begins to develop. When the engine induction was forced or
nitrous used then again the 425 would be stronger and a better choice but
the 455 would be better naturally aspirated. By the way I own a 9 sec Olds.
>
>----------
>From: 	BobH592058@aol.com[SMTP:BobH592058@aol.com]
>Sent: 	Tuesday, July 23, 1996 4:51 PM
>To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>Subject: 	Re: 455 vs 425
>
>In a message dated 96-07-23 09:30:12 EDT, you write:
>
><<  I've seen 455 turn 7200rpm, how much more can the 425 turn with the same
>head?
>  >>
> You _can_ turn a 455 7200 rpm but not for very long.  On average I would
>estimate the 425 is good for 500 rpm more consistently and with more
>reliability - in particular because of the forged crank and shorter stroke
>making oiling somewhat better.
>
>Olds heads aren't that bad.  There are some 9 second Olds' out there.
> Someone posted info about the Mondello Nationals in Ohio earlier this month.
> What were some of the lower times this year and with what models?  There is
>a fellow near Tampa. Jack Muenzner (sp?) with a ~'49 88 that turns low 10's
>with no bottle.
>
>Neat car.
>
>Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
>'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
>Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL
>
>
>
>
>
>
>hey 9 sec olds guy what kind of heads are you running on that
monster...ported to the moon or what?

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 09:46:18 -0300
Subject: Re: Resto Tips ..... 

>when you are working on detailing parts with paint (ie. under the hood
>detailing), put some of the vasoline on the parts you don't want paint
>on.  when you're done painting, just wipe it off!  a clean surface once again!

Among the other 6.2 million uses of Vaseline (tm -- sigh... :-) is as a
sort of dielectric grease. Wipe it on the base of light bulbs when you
install them, and on battery cable connections after you've cleaned them.

>Resto Corner

Uh, could you please sign with your name instead? That way we'll all
know each other. Takes the pseudo-commercial look off the postings.  :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: bryce_smith@442.com (Bryceman)
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 11:14:49 -0300
Subject: Tilt Front End 

Several weeks ago someone had mentioned that they knew of a company who
makes a tilt front end for a Cutlass. I am interested in finding out what
they cost as a '70 Cutlass convertible I am looking at needs a new front
clip anyway.


 EXCESSIVE IRON rules the road!
'65 442
'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender
 bryceman@442.com
 www.442.com

------------------------------

From: Jerry A Chrostek <jchroste@or.blm.gov>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 11:16:02 -0300
Subject: E mail 

please delete my name from your E mail list.
Thank you,
jchroste

------------------------------

From: "Andrew A. Senko" <senko@reston.ans.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 11:16:48 -0300
Subject: Front suspension

It's time I gave consideration to my front suspension.  I need to replace
all the usual parts, especially the bushings.  I've got the PST catalog and
I've looked over their kits.  I was also told that Moog makes the best
bushings.  My car is a ragtop and it spends most of it's time cruising.  It
is not a race car.  

QUESTIONS:

1) Should I get original style rubber bushings, or polyurethane bushings?

2) Since I don't race, should I avoid polyurethane bushings because they
   will give a harsher ride?

3) Is there a big difference between Moog bushings and PST bushings?

 -- 
                    _
                    |\            Convertibles                     
     .__====-_._____|_\______         Rule!                        Drew Senko
     [   ___  |-     |  ___  \                           senko@reston.ans.net
     =\_//.\\_|______|_//.\\__)                  http://members.gnn.com/senko
 ________\_/____________\_/________________________________ 71 CS Convertible

------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei-2@mail.idt.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 11:37:19 -0300
Subject: Re: Front suspension 

Drew, I put the PST kit in my 67 Cutlass convertible and couldn't be
happier. Here are answers to a couple of you ?'s in order:
At 11:16 AM 7/24/96 -0300, you wrote:

>1) Should I get original style rubber bushings, or polyurethane bushings?
        
        I decided to use the polygraphite bushings from PST because from all
accounts they last longer. I figured this was a job I didn't want to have to
do twice.
>
>2) Since I don't race, should I avoid polyurethane bushings because they
>   will give a harsher ride?

        My old bushings were so worn that I can't comment on whether or not
the ride is harsher. All I can say is that the ride now is fantastic. Do
yourself a favor and order new front coil springs as well as new shocks (i
chose the KYB Gas-A-Just). I then put in a steering box out of a Pontiac
A-body (2-1/2 turns lock to lock) and now I could't be happier with the
ride.        
>
>3) Is there a big difference between Moog bushings and PST bushings?

        Don't know much about the Moog bushings, I thought they were just
aftermarket OEM-style bushings.

 >Dave Isho --- davei-2@mail.idt.net
     >67 Cutlass CS Convertible
     

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 12:54:12 -0300
Subject: Rocket Wheels, trim rings 

I have located a few parts someone might be interested in.  Reply to my 
e-mail address below with what you want by Friday August 2.  Shipping (will 
use UPS ground 4-5 day) is from NE Illinois.  All items are in good to 
excellent condition.

1) 2 Rocket Wheels wheels w/tires: these look like Crager SS Mags (5 wide 
spoke), but have the words "Rocket Wheels" cast in the center.  Chrome, 
w/no rust.  Tires are grooved from hitting fender, so I wouldn't trust them 
on the street.  Bolt pattern is 4.5" between centers.  Tires look to be 
10-12" wide.

2) Trim rings: didn't measure them, but looked like 14".  Is there any 
identifying mark for Olds trim rings?  Any special attaching clips, 
hardware found on the rings?  Probably 2 (4 wheels) sets available.

Found no "D" heads though, only Buick, Ch*vy, Ford.

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
                  or see: www.cps.msu.edu/~twomeysh/

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 05:15:49 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: New Motor Considerations 

     Yeah, I'm hoping that somebody will wise-up and make some for my 307 
     by the time I'm ready to rebuild it in a year or two.  Just in case I 
     get a wild-hair and want to try nitrous or a blower or something. . .


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: New Motor Considerations
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    7/23/96 10:15 PM

     
> Have you considered hypereutectic (I think that's spelled right).  From 
     
     Yes, but I wasn't aware that anyone made them for a 350 Olds - I've 
only seen them for Ch*vy's and Fords....
     
     

------------------------------

From: tschip@linus.star.com (Ron Tschippert)
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 12:21:38 -0300
Subject: 1985 Olds 98 exhaust glows ... 

My 3.8l has just started with a new problem.  While playing around under the
hood, I noticed that the exhaust pipes glow red near the exhaust manifold  
when the engine idle is raised from the normal idle speed.  The more the
increase, the brighter the glowing pipes become.  I recently replaced the
muffler, catalytic converter, mass air flow sensor, oxygen sensor, cracked
spark plug, spark plug wires, distributor cap and rotor.  As a result, the
performance is fine but I'm afraid to drive the car in fear of doing damage
to either myself or the engine.  I took the car to the dealer and they were
unable to find anything wrong.

Has anyone ever seen this condition before?  I believe it not to be normal
and would greatly appreciate any help in isolating the cause.

Thanks in advance,

Ron

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 11:58:43 -0300
Subject: Re: 1985 Olds 98 exhaust glows ... 

>Has anyone ever seen this condition before?  I believe it not to be normal
>and would greatly appreciate any help in isolating the cause.

Can't quite picture the setup in your car, but could it be running
really rich? Are you getting stinko gas mileage? Sounds like mixture
burning is continuing into the exhaust manifold a lot more than it
should. Got a clean air filter and unobstructed air intake? If the
car is equipped with an AIR pump, is it functioning properly? No error
codes in the computer or Check Engine light blinking, right?

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Dan Dale <daleds@okra.millsaps.edu>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 13:10:18 -0300
Subject: RE: 1985 Olds 98 exhaust glows ... 

>hood, I noticed that the exhaust pipes glow red near the exhaust manifold  
>when the engine idle is raised from the normal idle speed.  The more the
>Has anyone ever seen this condition before?  I believe it not to be normal
>and would greatly appreciate any help in isolating the cause.
>
>Ron

I used to have a Monte Carlo SS that had had the emissions equipment cut off
of it. One time I got really pissed off b/c the egr valve trouble code kept
coming on so I just held it to the floor for about 2 miles. Saw sparks flying
out of the back of the car and stopped. my exhaust manifolds were glowing
cherry red, but after letting the car idle for awhile they went back to normal.
still don't know why it did that, but you might want to check out your
egr/emissions system thoroughly.





- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
$Dan Dale daleds@okra.millsaps.edu http://www.millsaps.edu/~daleds/index.html $
$cars: 1972 Cotner-Bevington Oldsmobile 98 Endloader, 1966 Pontiac GTO, 1973  $
$Imperial LeBaron, 1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-X, 1955 Cadillac Seville, 1969  $
$Cadillac DeVille Convertibles (2), 1976 Cadillac Series 75 Fleetwood Brougham$
$1961 Imperial Custom, 1973 Buick Riviera                                     $
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 13:34:00 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: 455 Questions -Reply 

Thanks for the correction.  The FAQ needs to be updated with this info.  
The chart doesn't list red, but a paragraph below the chart does list red:

400's were bronze in color, most 425's and early 455's were red, while 
Toronado 425's and later 455's were blue.  However, since engine color may 
have been changed, use this as supporting evidence only.  Quick tip: Best= 
Bronze, or Old Blue.

Does anyone have suggestions for cleaning up the charts in the FAQ?  Is 
there too much redundancy among the charts?  Could there be better 
organization of the data?  I'm limited to a 72 character line.

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
                  or see: www.cps.msu.edu/~twomeysh/

- ------------------
My 455 is red.  This appears to be the original color, as I scraped through
the 1/2 in. of gunk on the block then used brake cleaner to blast away
the residue... and it is red, red, red.  There is no trace of any other color. 
But the FAQ says that '69 455's were blue.

------------------------------

From: Richard Bonazzoli <bonazzoli@5onflr.ENET.dec.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 13:14:30 -0300
Subject: Olds cranks drilled for pilot bushing? 

I have begun my search for a complete 425-455 to replace the 350 in my
'69 Cutlass 4speed.  I have been told by some people that many
Olds big blocks do not have the crank drilled to accept a pilot
bushing necessary for my standard transmission equiped car.

Does anyone know if there is any truth to this?

Thanks,
Rich

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 14:40:44 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds cranks drilled for pilot bushing? 

This is from the FAQ, do you have a copy?

- ----- Pilot Bearing -----
The pilot bearing is a bearing [in this case a bushing- an after market 
quick/dirty fix] in the rear of the crankshaft, into which the [manual] 
trans pilot shaft fits.  Serves to support the front end of the trans 
shaft.  Only MT engines had pilot bearings.  Since 90% of Olds engines 
were destined for AT use, most Olds cranks are not even drilled to 
accept a pilot bearing.  So, spend another $80-100 to have the hole cut 
and buy the bearing if you have a manual trans.

[ Thanks to Chris Witt for this information. ]

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
                  or see: www.cps.msu.edu/~twomeysh/

- -------------
I have been told by some people that many Olds big blocks do not have the crank 
drilled to accept a pilot bushing necessary for my standard transmission equiped
car.

Does anyone know if there is any truth to this?

------------------------------

From: lacey@dsea.com (Dan Lacey)
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 15:36:54 -0300
Subject: Re: Front suspension 

>It's time I gave consideration to my front suspension.  I need to replace
>all the usual parts, especially the bushings.  I've got the PST catalog and
>I've looked over their kits.  I was also told that Moog makes the best
>bushings.  My car is a ragtop and it spends most of it's time cruising.  It
>is not a race car.
>
>QUESTIONS:
>
>1) Should I get original style rubber bushings, or polyurethane bushings?
>
>2) Since I don't race, should I avoid polyurethane bushings because they
>   will give a harsher ride?
>
>3) Is there a big difference between Moog bushings and PST bushings?
>
> --

I am getting ready to do the same on my '65 98. I have been "told" that
the only problem with poly is that they can squeak alot. But the solution
is to lubricate them with a graphite containing grease (some kind of
graphite suspension).

The "best" bushings may be from Global West. They are stiffer and more
durable than the poly bushings.

I am not an expert (SO PLEASE COMMENT), but, I don't really see how "stiff"
bushings would affect the ride of the car in an unpleasant way. I would
avoid too stiff a spring or shock, but not the bushings.


*************************************************************************
* THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY  *       Dan Lacey ( lacey@dsea.com )        *
*                           *       Dainippon Screen Eng. of America    *
* LEFT BLANK                *       3700 W. Segerstrom Ave.             *
*                           *       Santa Ana, CA. 92704                *
*************************************************************************

------------------------------

From: Doug Ahern <doug@cobra.cosmic.uga.edu>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 14:50:29 -0300
Subject: Re: Front suspension

> I am not an expert (SO PLEASE COMMENT), but, I don't really see how "stiff"
> bushings would affect the ride of the car in an unpleasant way. I would
> avoid too stiff a spring or shock, but not the bushings.

well, stiffer bushings give less, so the ride is harder.  when you hit a 
pot hole, part of the shock is taken up by the a-arm bushings, the
sway bar bushings, etc. not just the shock absorber and the spring. 
especially on the sway bar, a sway bar with soft bushings will bend 
around more that one with poly bushings so the ride is harder with
the polys.  if you don't lub the brushings they will sqeak a lot!!

------------------------------

From: tschip@linus.star.com (Ron Tschippert)
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 14:22:52 -0300
Subject: Re: 1985 Olds 98 exhaust glows ... 

Andrew Green,

Thanks for your quick response.  I don't believe it's running rich, open
loop mode along with the ECM says it's not and the dealer tested the
emissions.  The air filter has been replaced recently.  The gas mileage
seems to be close to normal and after all the parts replaced last week I'm
expecting it to increase.   And finally, the car is not equipped with an air
pump.

Thanks and any other thoughts would be appreciated.

Ron

------------------------------

From: SG Hartfelder <shartfel@planet.eol.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 15:05:08 -0300
Subject: Last Weekend

Hey guys!

I went to the All Olds show this past weekend in 
Olds, Alberta.  It was great!  Saturday morning, 
about 25 of us met at Gateway park on the south 
side of Edmonton and at 8:00am we drove (convoy 
style) to Olds.  Which is about a two (2) hour 
drive.  We all got thumbs-up from everyone who 
passed us.  The weather was beautiful and it was a 
fun drive.

Once we arrived, the set-up started.  By the time 
the show started, there were about 100 cars 
registered.  Lots of everything.  The 442s were 
very well represented and there were some 
absolutely gorgeous cars there.

After several hundred visitors went through, the 
show finished at about 4:00pm.  Then it was off to 
the local Legion for the banquet and awards 
evening.  The food was spectacular and Im sure 
everyone had an excellent time.

Just for the record, my 1938 Oldsmobile street rod 
captured 1st place in the modified class 
registering 960 points out of the possible 1000 
points.  Boy, was I pleased.  I also understand it 
registered the greatest number of points in all of 
the eight (8) classes.  The 38 was also the oldest 
car registered for the show.

So, even though I drove home that night through the 
pouring rain, the couple of trophies in the car 
kinda eased the fact that the car was getting 
rained on.

A good time was had by all and I would encourage 
any of you in the area to participate next year.  
Ill give you plenty of notice.

Next on this years agenda is the All Olds show in 
Banff, Alberta.  This one is scheduled for 
September and should see about 500 cars entered.  
Cars will be there from Oregon, Washington, Idaho, 
British Columbia and Alberta.  If I can fit it in, 
I'll definitely be there and report back how it was 
to all of you.

------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei-2@mail.idt.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 15:03:07 -0300
Subject: Re: Front suspension 

At 03:36 PM 7/24/96 -0300, you wrote:

>I am getting ready to do the same on my '65 98. I have been "told" that
>the only problem with poly is that they can squeak alot. But the solution
>is to lubricate them with a graphite containing grease (some kind of
>graphite suspension).


That is why PST's bushings are polygraphite not polyurethane...The poly is
impregnated (can I say that here?) with graphite. As the bushings wear the
graphite comes to the surface to re-lube the bushing.

 >Dave Isho --- davei-2@mail.idt.net
     >67 Cutlass CS Convertible
     

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 15:06:05 -0300
Subject: Olds FAQ (was:Re[2]: 455 Questions -Reply -Reply)

>>> "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu> 07/24/96
10:34am >>>
>Thanks for the correction.  The FAQ needs to be updated with this info. 
>The chart doesn't list red, but a paragraph below the chart does list red:

I noticed.  But it's too vague... when does "early" end and "later" begin?

>400's were bronze in color, most 425's and early 455's were red, while
>Toronado 425's and later 455's were blue.  However, since engine 
Is this always the case?  As I mentioned in the original post, there were
two '69 98's side by side.  One had a red engine, and one had a blue.  If
they were both original paint (but who really knows?), then wouldn't it
make sense to assume that they could have been either color, depending
on the plant at which they were assembled?

>color may have been changed, use this as supporting evidence only. 
>Quick tip: Best= Bronze, or Old Blue.

If the early (pre 70?) 455's were red, wouldn't it also stand to reason
that 'Best= Bronze or Red'?

>Does anyone have suggestions for cleaning up the charts in the FAQ?  
If you download the FAQ on a PC, they probably look fine.  But if you
download them on a Mac, they are all sorts of messed up.  I think the
Mac handles spaces differently.  At any rate, I spent an hour on the mac
cleaning up the charts so that it would print out nice.  If there's enough
Mac users out there, we might want to have a Mac and PC version.  I
don't know if it would be worth the hassle, though.  If anyone wanted
the doctored Mac version, I'd be happy to send it.

>Is there too much redundancy among the charts?  Could there be better 
>organization of the data?  I'm limited to a 72 character line.

Oh, there's a little redundancy, but not enough to be annoying.  Only
other suggestion I have would be maybe to give it page numbers and a
corresponding index.  Other than that, it's great!  It's helped me a lot, at
least.

------------------------------

From: SG Hartfelder <shartfel@planet.eol.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 15:08:22 -0300
Subject: Address change

Hey Bryce!  Please change my e-mail address on the 
page you've dedicated to my 1938 Olds.

My new address is:  Shartfel@planet.eon.net

This is now my 4'th request.  Have you not seen my 
previous requests?

Thanx alot.

------------------------------

From: curly@sgi.net
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 15:53:17 -0300
Subject: Re: 1985 Olds 98 exhaust glows ... 

At 02:22 PM 7/24/96 -0300, you wrote:
>
>Andrew Green,
>
>Thanks for your quick response.  I don't believe it's running rich, open
>loop mode along with the ECM says it's not and the dealer tested the
>emissions.  The air filter has been replaced recently.  The gas mileage
>seems to be close to normal and after all the parts replaced last week I'm
>expecting it to increase.   And finally, the car is not equipped with an air
>pump.
>
>Thanks and any other thoughts would be appreciated.
>
>Ron
>
>
>
>
>
hey guy when your exhaust glows that just points to one thing...something 
is restricting the the exhaust gases somewhere between the motor and tailpipe
it's usually the converter!!! i.e you said you replaced but something is 
restricting it. you better have changed the converter before you changed the
muffler or it is probably plugged!

Jeff

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 18:36:23 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds FAQ (was:Re[2]: 455 Questions -Reply -Reply)

> If you download the FAQ on a PC, they probably look fine.  But if you
> download them on a Mac, they are all sorts of messed up.  I think the
> Mac handles spaces differently.

My two cents:  Charts should ALWAYS be handled with a fixed-width font.  
Any attempt to do otherwise will result in columns being skewed one way 
or the other depending upon the proportional font in use.  The only other 
option is to store tham in a graphic format which eliminates the font 
issue but the files will get HUGE.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 17:09:33 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: New Motor Considerations 

It has been a while since I've looked through Mondello's catalog, but I 
thought he had them listed.

This just occurred to me and something probably won't work here.  Olds 350 
bore is 4.057, cast piston 4.055-4.056.  A Ch*vy 350 .060" bore over is 
4.060 with probably a 4.058-4.059 piston.  If (big if?) the piston pin 
diameter and length is the same, and the crown height is the same, you 
could use the Chevy piston by having the cylinder honed to fit.  What's 
wrong here?

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
                  or see: www.cps.msu.edu/~twomeysh/

- -----------------
On Tue, 23 Jul 1996, David Brown wrote:

> Have you considered hypereutectic [pistons]
     Yes, but I wasn't aware that anyone made them for a 350 Olds - I've 
only seen them for Ch*vy's and Fords....

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                    --> ravalent@liii.com  <--
        "Experience varies directly with equipment ruined"

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 16:22:09 -0300
Subject: Re: 455 vs 425 

In a message dated 96-07-23 21:25:46 EDT, you write:

<<  I have put together Batten head equiped Olds in the past and I would then
agree the forged crank of a 425 is needed to withstand the strain that the
engine  begins to develop.  >>


Whoa, way to go Chris.  Batten heads, I couldn't even afford the used ones
for sale at last years OCA meet.  No doubt they make a big difference. I'm
definitely jealous.

And congrats on the 9 second Olds.  What model, weight, etc.?

Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 16:24:19 -0300
Subject: Traction Aids 

In a message dated 96-07-23 23:45:17 EDT, you write:

<<  I would think that if the tires didnt spin the car would fall flat on its
face at the line.. er burn up the clutch er  loose an important item.. like
the rearend.. Am I thinking wrong here?  Your post seems to say get a big fat
sticky tire that is unspinable and air bags in the springs.  >>

Spinning tires don't work guys.  At least not as well as ones that don't.  Do
you run on ice?  Nope, no traction that way.  Do you remember the top fuel
cars that used to smoke 'em the full 1/4 mile?  They don't anymore. Even the
"nostalgia" drag cars of the same design don't do it today.  Why do cars do
burnouts to heat up the tires if spinning them on take off is advantageous?

Launching the car as hard as possible is the goal in every drag car.  If your
car falls on it's face you either don't have enough torque or, more likely,
not enough gear.
A stick trans will shock the tires more, for sure.  But the principle of
maximum traction = lower times still stands true. Spinning tires increase ET,
not lower it.

The bigger the tire _diameter_ the bigger the rubber patch on the pavement.
 Increasing the diameter and leaving the width the same will significantly
increase this.  That's why most folks try to stuff the biggest tire that will
fit in the wheel well.  It ain't all for looks.  I don't know how else to
explain this.  I suggest a trip to the drag strip to see for yourself. Along
the lines of "a picture is worth a thousand words".

There are numerous other aspects of traction control including shocks.  Loose
or worn rear shocks will allow the wheel to come off the pavement and hop.
The air bags (and good shocks which I assumed were present) help resist wheel
hop because they also dampen suspension movement.  But they also still allow
the suspension to still work.  One of Newton's laws of physics states that
for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.  Back in the 50's
and 60's drag racers (including me) used weak, soft rear springs which
allowed the car to squat on acceleration.  They thought dynamic weight
transfer was increasing traction.  Not so.  The action of the car squatting
down was actually exerting a force to lift the wheel off the pavement.  Well
designed drag cars of today use suspensions that lift the body on
acceleration thus increasing the down force on the tires. Installing ladder
bars can solve a wheel hop problem because they severely limit suspension
travel and essentially lock the rear suspension in place.  That is not the
ideal situation IMHO because a working suspension is more likely to result in
better ET's because it actively plants the wheel into the pavement.  Ladder
bars don't do that.  At least not the ones most widely sold for use on the
our street driven cars.  They definitely have a place in certain types of
drag race only cars.  The problem is that for a ladder bar to assist in
planting the tires the front connection would have to be somewhere under the
drivers seat!  Read through the frequent articles in the car mags on
suspensions and you will come across the explanation for this.

The "No-Hop" devices, the ones which require you to disconnect the upper
control arms from the rear and to install them in between, change the rear
suspension geometry and may very well decrease wheel hop.  I've never used
them. I haven't needed to.

My point is merely that you don't _need_ this fancy, expensive stuff which,
particularly for the ladder bars, otherwise ruins the ride, handling and max
performance.  But they do look impressive.  If that's what you want.

When you read a magazine which touts some new great method of increasing
engine power or lowering your ET or improving anything, please remember that
their first order of business is to help their advertisers sell product.  No
advertisers, no magazine.  With that in mind I think it is quite remarkable
that the El Camino described in the Hot Rod or Car Craft (I don't have the
issue handy) was even mentioned.  If that car can turn 9's with no fancy
tractions bars, devices, etc. I don't know what else I can say.  With me in
it, my '67 weighs over 4,000 lbs and I'm turning low 11's at 166+mph.  With
no tire spin or wheel hop.  Just plant 'em and boogie.

If my formula of max tire size/traction and a working suspension don't make
sense given these results I give up.  Lower ETs are more impressive than the
visual lack of wheel hop.  Spend your money and time any way you want.  There
is evidence you don't need to spend very much.  Your choice.


Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 15:27:35 -0300
Subject: Re: 1985 Olds 98 exhaust glows ... 

>hey guy when your exhaust glows that just points to one thing...something 
>is restricting the the exhaust gases somewhere between the motor and tailpipe
>it's usually the converter!!! i.e you said you replaced but something is 
>restricting it. you better have changed the converter before you changed the
>muffler or it is probably plugged!

I thought of that, too, but when mine got that clogged it accelerated
like a _dog_, and manifold vacuum was so bad/nonexistent that my HVAC
controls wouldn't work right, and he didn't mention anything like that.

But, yeah, that would be good to check. Got a vacuum gauge? Sympathetic
muffler shop that will temporarily disconnect the exhaust system for a
test drive, perhaps?

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: bryce_smith@442.com (Bryceman)
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 16:39:59 -0300
Subject: Re: 1985 Olds 98 exhaust glows ... 

>hey guy when your exhaust glows that just points to one thing...something
>is restricting the the exhaust gases somewhere between the motor and tailpipe
>it's usually the converter!!! i.e you said you replaced but something is
>restricting it. you better have changed the converter before you changed the
>muffler or it is probably plugged!

Isnt the cat designed for one direction of airflow? If so, and the cat was
on backwards it could cause this, right?


 EXCESSIVE IRON rules the road!
'65 442
'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender
 bryceman@442.com
 www.442.com

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 17:52:00 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds FAQ (was:Re[2]: 455 Questions -Reply -Reply) 

Vague, yeah.  I added the 68-69 red distinction to the chart.  But you saw two 
69's, one red and one blue.  Don't know about differences between plants.  Was 
the manufacture location code the same?  Where's Chris when we need him?  Best: 
Red makes sense to be included.

Spaces in FAQ: put the FAQ into a fixed, non-proportional font.  That should fix
the charts.

Page numbers, index: Page number are nice, but this causes some problems.  Page 
number are fixed on the page and means a form feed on each page.  Word processor
printing or just dumping the FAQ to a printer, causes differences in page 
lengths.  That goofs up printing.  Form feeds sometimes goof up applications.  I
create the FAQ in MS Word, and export text with line breaks.  An unbroken line 
version is also available so you can squeeze more per line in a word processor. 
Form feeds defeat this also.  I want to keep the formatting very simple so it 
can be read by any application.

Index: Good idea.  Maybe in the future.  A lot of manual labor is involved in 
setting this up the first time (in MS Word).  Anyone have a Key Word In Context 
(KWIC) utility I could pass the FAQ through?  That would be the easy way to 
generate the index.

These are good ideas.  I'll keep them in mind.

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
                  or see: www.cps.msu.edu/~twomeysh/

- ------------------
I noticed.  But it's too vague... when does "early" end and "later" begin?

As I mentioned in the original post, there were
two '69 98's side by side.  One had a red engine, and one had a blue.  If
they were both original paint (but who really knows?), then wouldn't it
make sense to assume that they could have been either color, depending
on the plant at which they were assembled?

If the early (pre 70?) 455's were red, wouldn't it also stand to reason
that 'Best= Bronze or Red'?

If you download the FAQ on a PC, they probably look fine.  But if you
download them on a Mac, they are all sorts of messed up.  I think the
Mac handles spaces differently.  

Only other suggestion I have would be maybe to give it page numbers and a
corresponding index.  Other than that, it's great!  It's helped me a lot, at
least.

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 18:19:34 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: 455 vs 425 

And add 1 Batten compatible intake plus custom headers.  Ouch!!  Since 
Batten changed the port location from stock, the Edelbrock Olds heads (they 
announced them on their page this spring) probably won't flow any better.

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
                  or see: www.cps.msu.edu/~twomeysh/

- --------------
Whoa, way to go Chris.  Batten heads, I couldn't even afford the used ones
for sale at last years OCA meet.  No doubt they make a big difference. I'm
definitely jealous.

Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 02:29:03 -0300
Subject: Re: Paint Blue Prints

Just to let you know I brought them into work today but havn't had a chance to scan them in. I 
will tomorrow. Instead of fax them would consider receiving a *.gif file.

- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 15:51:48 -0300
Subject: Re: 70 350 engin nock

At 07:58 PM 7/23/96 -0300, you wrote:
>My spark plugs are fine, I only run the booster every other tankfull when it
>seems to be pinging more. I hoped adding it would solve a problem and not creat
>one. Also I do not run the car hard so my last resort will be to buy 93 fuel
>and reduce the timing to 8 degrees.
>to try  ful
>
Uh, well, if you're not using 92 or 93 octane already, that's probably the
problem.  My car runs fine on high octane, but runs like a dog on 89 octane.
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 17:37:01 -0300
Subject: Re: Front suspension 

In a message dated 96-07-24 13:55:12 EDT, you write:

<< I am getting ready to do the same on my '65 98. I have been "told" that
 the only problem with poly is that they can squeak alot. But the solution
 is to lubricate them with a graphite containing grease (some kind of
 graphite suspension).
  >>

Best suggestion I have seen is to suspend graphite (from any hardware store)
in rubbing alcohol (any drug store).  The solution penetrates carrying the
graphite in.  The alcohol dries fairly quickly leaving only the graphite.

Would leaving grease on rubber and or urethane cause early breakdown of the
bushings?

Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 16:37:01 -0300
Subject: Re: Front suspension 

>Best suggestion I have seen is to suspend graphite (from any hardware store)
>in rubbing alcohol (any drug store).  The solution penetrates carrying the
>graphite in.  The alcohol dries fairly quickly leaving only the graphite.

If you want to go that route, there is a product made for lubing locks
called (I think) "Lock-Ease" which is made from this recipe. Comes in
a little can about half the size of a 3-in-One oil can. My father uses
it to lube the power antenna on his car.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Peter_Teubel_at_Safety1st-MA@harte-hanks.com
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 17:43:28 -0300
Subject: [none]

h1*vv8"Dj
FPvvv"D
	id AA838248424; 8"Dj
|Pvvv"D
h1*vv8
Date: 8"Dj
|Pvvv"D
h1*vv8"Dj
FPvvv"D
Date: 8"Dj
|Pvvv"D
h1*vv8"Dj
FPvvv"D
Date: 8"Dj
|Pvvv"D
h1*vv8"Dj
FPvvv"D
From: Peter_Teubel_at_Safety1st-MA@harte-hanks.com
Message-Id: <9606248382.AA838248424@harte-hanks.com>
To: oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: Re[2]: A True Gem

     Its a '75, two door, silver.


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: A True Gem
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at ~INTERNET
Date:    7/23/96 11:59 AM


>     I saw another gem at that dealer.  How about a 1974 (75?..can't 
>     remember which)
     
Well, the '74 has separate front turn signal lenses set off from the 
grille by body-color areas. The '75 has clear cathedral-like lenses 
set into the outermost segment of each grille.
     
>     Yes, that's right...158 miles.  The guy is asking $14,900 for it.  
>     What a beauty this car is.
     
Um, is this the 4-door? Color? Don't know what to think about that 
price. Maybe _Olds_ would be interested in it!
     
Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431 
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com 
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473
     
     

------------------------------

From: Peter_Teubel_at_Safety1st-MA@harte-hanks.com
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 17:43:29 -0300
Subject: [none]

h1*vv8"Dj
FPvvv"D
	id AA838248429; 8"Dj
|Pvvv"D
h1*vv8
Date: 8"Dj
|Pvvv"D
h1*vv8"Dj
FPvvv"D
Date: 8"Dj
|Pvvv"D
h1*vv8"Dj
FPvvv"D
Date: 8"Dj
|Pvvv"D
h1*vv8"Dj
FPvvv"D
From: Peter_Teubel_at_Safety1st-MA@harte-hanks.com
Message-Id: <9606248382.AA838248429@harte-hanks.com>
To: oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: Re: Carlisle

     Todd, if you find rear tail light bezels for a 1951 Olds 98, let me 
     know!  I'm going to the fall show (went to the spring show, too).
     
     Pete Teubel


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Carlisle
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at ~INTERNET
Date:    7/23/96 2:24 PM


     
Off to Carlisle this friday.  Should be fun, even if Summer Carlisle isn't as 
big a show as 
spring and fall.  I'll try and take good notes but if anyone is interested in 
something 
specific, pls let me know.  I'll be looking for a bunch of new tools and odds 
and ends and 
if I'm REALLY lucky I may find a black ashtray for my 442.  That hole in the 
dash is a tad 
unsightly.
     
Todd Morris
71 442 4 sp.
     

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 17:58:26 -0300
Subject: Leaky Well Plugs in Qjet?

Having just gone the route of converting my '68 to a 4-barrel Qjet, I'm 
wondering if it is't suffering the dreaded leaky well plug syndrome. Here 
are the symptoms:

The car runs really well most of the time, especially on the highway. 
Great pickup, no problems that way. But, when idling it's kind of lumpy 
and uneven. At first after coming down from a hi-speed run it's fine, but 
once it's been idling for a couple of minutes it starts to get rough. 
Rough idle most of the time during around-town driving. The other chief 
symptom is warm or hot-start flooding about 90% of the time. I'm 
suspicious... I bought the carb already rebuilt and didn't check the well 
plugs. I have no idea whether they were looked at or not by the 
rebuilder. I suspect them because a leaky well plug would likely cause 
such a condition at idle, but that after hi-speed running it might take a 
while before enough excess fuel would get into the system to richen the 
mixture to the point where the plugs wouldn't fire it totally. But I'm a 
rookie at Q-jets, so I'm just guessing.

Timing, vacuum, etc. all check out OK. The exhaust at idle when it's 
lumpy smells rich so that indicates the problem, but tinkering with the 
mixture screws doesn't help. Thoughts?

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: lacey@dsea.com (Dan Lacey)
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 19:06:33 -0300
Subject: Re: Traction Aids 

>In a message dated 96-07-23 23:45:17 EDT, you write:
>
><<  I would think that if the tires didnt spin the car would fall flat on its
>face at the line.. er burn up the clutch er  loose an important item.. like
>the rearend.. Am I thinking wrong here?  Your post seems to say get a big fat
>sticky tire that is unspinable and air bags in the springs.  >>
>
>Spinning tires don't work guys.  At least not as well as ones that don't.  Do
>you run on ice?  Nope, no traction that way.  Do you remember the top fuel
>cars that used to smoke 'em the full 1/4 mile?  They don't anymore. Even the
>"nostalgia" drag cars of the same design don't do it today.  Why do cars do
>burnouts to heat up the tires if spinning them on take off is advantageous?
>

[SNIP]

Bob,

Agreed.

Ken,

The best stock cars (the "originally from a factory" kind) I have seen did
not depend on fancy parts. They DID rely on replacement parts that were
better for racing (like stiffer shocks & air bags, stiffer rear control
arms, bigger anti-say bars, etc.).

One common exception to this rule is front spindles. You can get them with
disc brakes and a different geometry. These are specifically made for a
model of car. They are not just generic bolt-on components and do require
modifications to the rest of the suspension.

I think that if a wheel is hopping, your current components are not
matched. This can cost anything up to about $3K. (New BIG FAT STICKY tires,
STIFF read control arms, add rigidity to the frame, use a beefy rear-end,
something like Koni shocks, see how it adds up :-)

OR; you can spend $300 on the whatcha-ma-callits and get AROUND the
problem. It really depends on what your philosophy is about the car, how
much you want to spend, etc... I obviously fall on the side of "wait till I
can do it right" instead of the work-around side (I be a eng-ga-near :-).
Since you already have the bars, might as well try them. I do not know if
these would stress other components of the car, but I have heard of other
products just like this that work OK. I would suggest taking them off if
you actually upgrade the suspension tho...


Good Luck with the HOP Ken!



*************************************************************************
* THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY  *       Dan Lacey ( lacey@dsea.com )        *
*                           *       Dainippon Screen Eng. of America    *
* LEFT BLANK                *       3700 W. Segerstrom Ave.             *
*                           *       Santa Ana, CA. 92704                *
*************************************************************************

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 18:10:04 -0300
Subject: Re: Leaky Well Plugs in Qjet? 

In a message dated 96-07-24 17:01:56 EDT, you write:

<< 
 Timing, vacuum, etc. all check out OK. The exhaust at idle when it's 
 lumpy smells rich so that indicates the problem, but tinkering with the 
 mixture screws doesn't help. Thoughts? >>

Greg,

Exactly the same symptoms as our SX including the rich smelling exhaust.  I
know the rebuilder didn't check the plugs because it was me. :-(  

Actually, I have an Edelbrick Torker I'm thinking of installing.  Initially
it will get a new Carter AFB but the Q-Jet is the ultimate choice.  Be
interesting to see if the lumpy idle and exhaust smell improve with the AFB.

It's strange to me that the idle mixture screws react normally but it still
runs rich and rough.

Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 19:38:16 -0300
Subject: Re: Tilt Front End 

          

Several weeks ago someone had mentioned that they knew of a company who 
makes a tilt front end for a Cutlass. I am interested in finding out what 
they cost as a '70 Cutlass convertible I am looking at needs a new front 
clip anyway.
          
          I previously built a 1971 Cutlass with a fiberglass tilt 
          front end (that's the one the ex got - dual quads and 
          nitrous on a 455 +0.030).  I bought the front end from VFN 
          Fiberglass, cost was something like $600 in 1981.  
          
          Words of caution:
          
          This unit is designed for drag racing applications and 
          requires a significant amount of fabrication to attach.  I 
          ended up building brackets which incorporated the stock 
          bumper brackets as hinges, with additional struts to support 
          the unit.  No provision is incorporated for mounting 
          headlights, grille, etc - these also had to be fabricated, 
          as did the mounts to the firewall/cowl.  And, since it was 
          designed originally for race car use, fit and finish of the 
          front end was significantly less than show quality, 
          requiring me to do a lot of cut-and-paste work.  Finally, 
          the most annoying aspect was that I ordered a '71-72 front 
          end and instead got a '70 front end with a '71-72 front 
          bumper molded in!  This required me to rework the leading 
          edge of the hood to accept the '71 grilles and chrome trim.
          
          The VFN unit did incorporate an OAI hood, however keep in 
          mind that this is a thin 'glass shell only, with no inner 
          ducting to mate up to the air cleaner.  Also, the hood pin 
          holes were not incorporated (they were apparently covered 
          over on the pattern car prior to laying up the original 
          mold.  Additionally, the seams between the 
          hood/fenders/bumper appeared to have been crudely filled 
          with clay prior to creating the mold, and then not dressed 
          before the production parts were laid up.
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30
          
          

------------------------------

From: mike.blankenship@medaphis.com (Mike Blankenship)
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 18:43:08 -0300
Subject: Carb

Anybody know what a good price for a 70 W30 auto carb 7040258 is 
these days?


Mike

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 18:52:54 -0300
Subject: Re: Leaky Well Plugs in Qjet? 

In a message dated 96-07-24 17:01:56 EDT, ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca (Greg Beaulieu)
writes:

<< Timing, vacuum, etc. all check out OK. The exhaust at idle when it's 
 lumpy smells rich so that indicates the problem, but tinkering with the 
 mixture screws doesn't help. Thoughts?
  >>

Greg,

Yep! That sounds like classic well plugs to me. My guess is they either
didn't check it or used inferior epoxy and they leak. The only way to really
check it is to take the carb off  the manifold and take bottom of the carb.
Put the bowl on a coffee can and fill it with gas (approximating the float
level). My guess is it will leak right away. 

As much as I am against the dreaded expoxy, JB Weld fix, I have come up with
few alternatives. They even gave up on that fat neoprene triangle that was
supposed to get "squashed "between the castings as you corked it down.  I
have been told some guys tap the well holes and insert a machined screw with
an O ring. But, as you know, that pot metal can be really crappy to work
with. If you bust the side wall of the well hole (casting), I have no idea
what you would do then. It won't weld, braize, soilder, or nothing.....its
just a worthless alloy if you ask me!  Its too bad, other than that part of
the design its a pretty good carb.

I have to rebuild two of them (66 and 67 Toros) in the next few weeks. If I
can come up with something better than epoxy, I will let you know. Mike F
mentioned a marine epoxy that they fix cracked water jackets and cylinder
heads on boat motors with stuff called Marine Tex or something like that. You
might wanna give that a try.

Good luck!

Sparky 

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 18:32:56 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds FAQ (was:Re[2]: 455 Questions -Reply -Reply) -Reply

>My two cents:  Charts should ALWAYS be handled with a fixed-width
>font.  Any attempt to do otherwise will result in columns being skewed 

Ok, ok.  So what's a good font to use?

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 19:58:10 -0300
Subject: Aloha 

          
          Well, I survived.  Back from Kaua'i with all three kids and 
          most of my sanity.  Yes, we had a great time.  I've also 
          managed to get through 200 of the 745 messages from the mail 
          list which have accumulated in the 12 days that I've been 
          gone (less than 70 per day average - you folks are 
          slipping!).
          
          While the humid salt air on the island is less than kind to 
          most vintage (or not-so-vintage) cars, I did see one older 
          Olds on Kaua'i... a 1970 Toro (green with white vinyl top).  
          Even on vacation, you can't get away from the Toro-heads!
          
          Joe (kahuna) Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 14:03:36 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds FAQ (was:Re[2]: 455 Questions -Reply -Reply)

David Brown wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Page numbers, index: Page number are nice, but this causes some problems.  Page
> number are fixed on the page and means a form feed on each page.  Word processor
> printing or just dumping the FAQ to a printer, causes differences in page
> lengths.  That goofs up printing.  Form feeds sometimes goof up applications.  I
> create the FAQ in MS Word, and export text with line breaks.  An unbroken line
> version is also available so you can squeeze more per line in a word processor.
> Form feeds defeat this also.  I want to keep the formatting very simple so it
> can be read by any application.
> 
> Index: Good idea.  Maybe in the future.  A lot of manual labor is involved in
> setting this up the first time (in MS Word).  Anyone have a Key Word In Context
> (KWIC) utility I could pass the FAQ through?  That would be the easy way to
> generate the index.
> 
> These are good ideas.  I'll keep them in mind.
> 
> David Brown          
> ------------------
> 


I have a solution for page numbers already w/Netscape.  The numbers are 
automatically put there as I print (1 of 4, 2 of 4, etc.).  Possibly 
others do the same or will w/future versions.  

An index would get my vote.  Don't think that I'm not very happy w/what 
you do now though.  Any improvements are just that much nicer, but I'm 
not mad now.
- -- 
SLTG

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 18:01:55 -0300
Subject: Re: Aloha 

>          While the humid salt air on the island is less than kind to 
>          most vintage (or not-so-vintage) cars, I did see one older 
>          Olds on Kaua'i... a 1970 Toro (green with white vinyl top).  
>          Even on vacation, you can't get away from the Toro-heads!

Given the mentality seen around here, I imagine he brought it with him. :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 14:07:17 -0300
Subject: Re: Front suspension

Andrew C. Green wrote:
> 
> >Best suggestion I have seen is to suspend graphite (from any hardware store)
> >in rubbing alcohol (any drug store).  The solution penetrates carrying the
> >graphite in.  The alcohol dries fairly quickly leaving only the graphite.
> 
> If you want to go that route, there is a product made for lubing locks
> called (I think) "Lock-Ease" which is made from this recipe. Comes in
> a little can about half the size of a 3-in-One oil can. My father uses
> it to lube the power antenna on his car.
> 
> Andrew C. Green            

That's too simple.  This is the technological age.  No one will take 
that advice.  Shush!
- -- 
SLTG

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 19:26:53 -0300
Subject: Re: Carb

Mike,
I'd say $5 is a GOOD price.  Mine is $275.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 18:17:40 -0300
Subject: Re: Front suspension 

>That's too simple.  This is the technological age.  No one will take 
>that advice.  Shush!

Jeez, Lloyd, just because I left out the part about how you get the top
off the can by carefully filing a notch around it to selectively weaken
the metal, then positioning it on a nearby fencepost and firing at it 
with a semi-automatic rifle, being careful to note any prevailing
crosswinds?

While we're in useless-post mode, did anyone else hear Click-and-Clack's
comment last weekend about how hard it would be for that girl's boyfriend
to find parts for his imported Citroen when he's halfway across the U.S.
and his car breaks down? It was something like, "It'll be so hard for him
to find _anything_ to fit that car... If he wants to pump up his tires,
even the _air_ won't fit!"

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 22:24:07 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds FAQ (was:Re[2]: 455 Questions -Reply -Reply) -Reply

Blaine Sanders 5483 wrote:
> 
> 
> Ok, ok.  So what's a good font to use?

Dosn't matter which font, so long as it's fixed-width (non-proportional).

Keep in mind that a text document does not contain any information about 
which font was used to create it (or which one should be used to display 
or print it, for that matter).  "Font" has no meaning in ASCII text.  It 
is everyone's system that is converting the character (ASCII) codes from 
the document into whatever font you have selected.

When you create a spreadsheet or chart-style document using a 
proportional spaced font, you play around getting the alignment just 
right.  But when anyone else looks at it using almost any other font, it 
becomes skewed because each font handles the character widths (and 
spaces) differently.  

In ALL fixed width fonts, all characters, symbols, and spaces are the 
same width.  So even if my fixed width font is larger than yours, it will 
still display correctly since the proportions remain the same.

So create the chart with a fixed width font and tell everyone else to 
view it with one.

Mud?

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 22:25:42 -0300
Subject: Re: Aloha

JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com wrote:
> 

> Even on vacation, you can't get away from the Toro-heads!

They're everywhere!  They're everywhere!

Wecome back, Joe.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 19:03:56 -0300
Subject: RE: Leaky Well Plugs in Qjet?

Well, after listening to the discussion over the past week, I've pretty
much determined that I have leaky well plugs, too.  

So what exactly are the well plugs?  Do you have to tear the carb apart
to replace them?  Where can you get new ones?  Do they come in a
rebuild kit?

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 19:55:33 -0300
Subject: Re: Wanted: Fender 

In a message dated 96-07-23 12:13:25 EDT, you write:

<< I've got a right fender. No rust, no bondo. A small, slightest hine of a
dent 
 near the front would take a body person about 15  to 30 minutes to fix.
Fender 
 only, no trim, can be delivered to you location for $200.  Let me know.
 
 Art Fuller >>

OK, now that we found this fella a fender for his Cutlass, how 'bout finding
me one for my '67 98, right side, preferably with a cornering light hole?

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 19:56:19 -0300
Subject: Re: My next driveway cover??? 

In a message dated 96-07-23 04:46:52 EDT, you write:

<<  and definately not much of a "fun" color :  A few shades
 worse than vomit-yellow!   >>

But yellow is a "fun" color.  Definately a convertible color.  (And you
better watch it because my '72 Supreme is yellow!)  Anyway, they called that
color Saffron, and it was real popular on 98 convertibles in '67.  They even
had a matching yellow convertible top and yellow interior.  Must have been a
real big hit with the ladies, as I have heard of quite a few of these now.

So let me get this straight.  Now there's two '67 98 convertibles?  A regular
one and a parts car?  What are you waiting for?!

Paul
and the iron banana

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 19:56:10 -0300
Subject: Re: No Subject 

In a message dated 96-07-23 18:16:53 EDT, you write:

<< Are many of yall going to make it to the OCA Convention here in August.
        It should be a good show.  I think at last count there were close to
 400 cars registered and lots of swap vendors.  The Olympic's will just
 be getting finished up (Yeah!!!). >>

Two weeks to go!  I can hardly wait!  Been savin' every dime to blow it at
the swap meet.  Should land there on Tuesday providing I can get a
drivability problem fixed in time.  Hopefully all the Olympic groupies and
assorted weirdos will be gone.

See ya there!

Paul
'67 98, rough runnin' with a big dent

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 20:02:47 -0300
Subject: Steering Box NAPA Part #'s 

Since the bonehead at NAPA couldn't help me over the phone last night, I went
over tonight and looked up the part numbers myself.

So here's the part numbers you've been patiently waiting for:

Weatherhead #1445:  3/8" -> 5/8 18 - 14x1.5
Weatherhead #1446:  3/8" -> 5/8 18 - 16x1.5
Weatherhead #1447:  3/8" -> 5/8 18 - 18x1.5

Since the boxes varied slightly, you should order all three and take the box
(or newer lines) with you when you pick them up and pick the 2 you need.

Here's some more food for thought:
When I decided to put a 12.7:1 box on my 79 Cutlass, I went to a U-pick it
yard and found a box in a 84 Monte SS, when I removed the box, I also took
the lines, and the fitting that was in the back of the power steering pump
along with the spring and valve located behind it.  

Since in 79 they still used the 3/8" flare, I removed the fitting on the back
of my original pump and replaced the spring, valve, and fitting with the ones
from the Monte SS with no problem at all.  I then could use the later model
power steering lines (which were in excellent shape from the Monte) .  Since
the return line is connected with a common hose clamp, I eliminated the need
for the NAPA part numbers.

A word on the spring and valve:  The valve located behind the fitting
regulates both the pressure and volume of the pump.  [FYI->Inside the valve
is a small spring separate from the one I talked about above which regulates
the pressure and a small hole which regulates the volume].  I figured I would
replace these just to make sure.  My friend with the 67 Chevelle SS just used
the fittings from NAPA and didn't touch the pump at all.  So you guys with A
bodies (and B & C for that matter) should have no problems at all using the
old pump (& valve).  

I hope this info helped you out.  Please drop me a line with anymore
questions!

Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com

------------------------------

From: DELPROPO@emuvax.emich.edu
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 20:26:36 -0300
Subject: Re: 70 350 engin nock 

wELL, I have used 93 octain fuel and still get a ping now and then, I was
responding to a claim that octain boost can burn up spark plugs. This may be
true. Do you ever get a ping using 93 fuel. 

------------------------------

From: DELPROPO@emuvax.emich.edu
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 20:28:27 -0300
Subject: Ok had enought................................ 

ok had enought..............................

------------------------------

From: DELPROPO@EMUVAX.EMICH.EDU
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 20:45:33 -0300
Subject: Parts for Sale

I have some Cutlass parts for, thay are as follows.
1. center consols for 67-69 cutlass, complete(sorry no cable
2. Complete side trime for 68-69 F-85 and cutlass S.                                                      
3. Wheel well moldings 68,69.                 
4. 70 speedomoter                       
5.71-72 front turn lamp. 
Other stuff available leave a list of needs and I will see what I have. The
prices are VERY reasonable.       Thanks Greg Del 70 Cutlass Supreme Don Del 68
Cutlass S. Michigan  

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 21:15:08 -0300
Subject: Re: Leaky Well Plugs in Qjet? 

In a message dated 96-07-24 18:46:02 EDT, BLAINES@strata3d.com (Blaine
Sanders 5483) writes:

<< Well, after listening to the discussion over the past week, I've pretty
 much determined that I have leaky well plugs, too.  
 
 So what exactly are the well plugs?  Do you have to tear the carb apart
 to replace them?  Where can you get new ones?  Do they come in a
 rebuild kit?
  >>
Blaine,

Anyone correct me if I'm wrong on this.......Well plugs are basically two
casting holes (spruce I think thay call them) in the bottom of the bowl. For
some reason, they are there due to the nature of how the carb must be cast.
They serve no purpose, other than to leak and drive ya nuts! To seal the
holes (about 3/8"), Rochester used copper plugs and stamped/pressed them in
to the holes to stop the gas from leaking out of the bowl into the manifold.
In short...THEY DON'T WORK! 

Years ago this was no problem however, as you could go to the local parts
house and buy that part of the carb for 15 bucks, slap it together, and it
run for another couple of years. Now, they are not made and you have to seal
them yourself. I have already split a carb and found them rattleing around.

You need to take the carb off and remove the bottom 3rd of the carb, the part
of the carb that sits on the manifold (4 phillips screws). You will see them
right away. They are in the middle of the carb. 

To test for leaks, fill the bowl with gas through the vent pipe and set the
carb on a can or something. Within minutes, you will probably find it
dripping.
 
They do not come in rebuild kits. You have to use the fixes previousely
disscussed.

If you find better way, let us know!

Sparky

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 21:21:19 -0300
Subject: Re: 70 350 engin nock

At 08:26 PM 7/24/96 -0300, you wrote:
>wELL, I have used 93 octain fuel and still get a ping now and then, I was
>responding to a claim that octain boost can burn up spark plugs. This may be
>true. Do you ever get a ping using 93 fuel. 

Once in a while, usually only if I run the engine hard and it's hotter than
normal.
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 21:34:44 -0300
Subject: FAQ

Will somebody please post the email address for requesting the FAQ?  I seem
to have lost it...

Thanks
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: mike.blankenship@medaphis.com
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 21:40:29 -0300
Subject: Ralleye 350

A friend of mine is selling his RALLEYE 350:

72,000 original miles
90% original paint
original stripes
auto (no dual gate)
bucket seats
rally pack
a/c
missing breather top

car is totally rust free and original.  The sebring yellow paint is nice but a  little faded due to age.  Asking $6500.  I dont think he's bringing it to the
NATS, but he lives close by.

Any interest, just e-mail me.

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 20:56:31 -0300
Subject: RE: 455 vs 425

Oh yeah, I have a flow bench and have been working on OLDS heads for =
years. The heads I run are C's at the moment but just about any of the =
heads can be made to work equally well.
>
>
>
>
>hey 9 sec olds guy what kind of heads are you running on that
monster...ported to the moon or what?

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 20:59:23 -0300
Subject: RE: Olds cranks drilled for pilot bushing?

Well if you had an engine from an original 4 speed car obviously it =
would be drilled, but I have have seen these drilled out on a few =
automatics as well. Otherwise you must get it done at a machine shop.]


- ----------
From: 	Richard Bonazzoli[SMTP:bonazzoli@5onflr.enet.dec.com]
Sent: 	Wednesday, July 24, 1996 12:14 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca; oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Olds cranks drilled for pilot bushing?

I have begun my search for a complete 425-455 to replace the 350 in my
'69 Cutlass 4speed.  I have been told by some people that many
Olds big blocks do not have the crank drilled to accept a pilot
bushing necessary for my standard transmission equiped car.

Does anyone know if there is any truth to this?

Thanks,
Rich

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 21:39:59 -0300
Subject: RE: Re[2]: 455 vs 425

I tend to disagree, the Edelbrock heads would be patterened after stock =
heads but there is still a lot of improvement to be had over stock with =
some different casting of the ports. They would not equal a Batten head =
in alll out potential but would be head over heels better than any stock =
head......( make that could be ... time will tell).

- ----------
From: 	David Brown[SMTP:dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu]
Sent: 	Wednesday, July 24, 1996 5:19 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Re[2]: 455 vs 425

And add 1 Batten compatible intake plus custom headers.  Ouch!!  Since=20
Batten changed the port location from stock, the Edelbrock Olds heads =
(they=20
announced them on their page this spring) probably won't flow any =
better.

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
                  or see: www.cps.msu.edu/~twomeysh/

- --------------
Whoa, way to go Chris.  Batten heads, I couldn't even afford the used =
ones
for sale at last years OCA meet.  No doubt they make a big difference. =
I'm
definitely jealous.

Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 21:35:57 -0300
Subject: RE: 455 vs 425

Thanks Bob, its a 69 Cutlass, weight 3400 lbs,and boy could I go into details.....

And congrats on the 9 second Olds.  What model, weight, etc.?

Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL

------------------------------

From: lacey@dsea.com (Dan Lacey)
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 23:05:55 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds FAQ (was:Re[2]: 455 Questions -Reply -Reply) -Reply 

>>My two cents:  Charts should ALWAYS be handled with a fixed-width
>>font.  Any attempt to do otherwise will result in columns being skewed
>
>Ok, ok.  So what's a good font to use?

Courier...


*************************************************************************
* THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY  *       Dan Lacey ( lacey@dsea.com )        *
*                           *       Dainippon Screen Eng. of America    *
* LEFT BLANK                *       3700 W. Segerstrom Ave.             *
*                           *       Santa Ana, CA. 92704                *
*************************************************************************

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 22:10:59 -0300
Subject: Re: Wanted: Fender

Paul,
I'll see if I can find one of those fenders.  Let you know.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: boonedoc <boonedoc@netaxs.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 19:07:01 -0300
Subject: Re: "Olds" ifieds

Toronado66@aol.com wrote:
> 
> To All:
> 
> Here are the Oldsified ads as placed in this months "Rocket Rapsheet", the
> newsletter from the Oldsmobile Club of Wisconsin chapter of the OCA.
> 

> 
> Sparky

Yes: I'm very interested in seeing your postings on a monthly basis. 
Appreciate your effort
Stan

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 18:36:27 -0300
Subject: Re: Front suspension

Andrew C. Green wrote:
> 
> >
> 
> While we're in useless-post mode, did anyone else hear Click-and-Clack's
> comment last weekend about how hard it would be for that girl's boyfriend
> to find parts for his imported Citroen when he's halfway across the U.S.
> and his car breaks down? It was something like, "It'll be so hard for him
> to find _anything_ to fit that car... If he wants to pump up his tires,
> even the _air_ won't fit!"
> 
> Andrew C. Green            

I knew that!
- -- 
SLTG

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 18:37:47 -0300
Subject: Re: Aloha

Mike Frederick wrote:
> 
> JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com wrote:
> >
> 
> > Even on vacation, you can't get away from the Toro-heads!
> 
> They're everywhere!  They're everywhere!
> 
> Wecome back, Joe.
> 
> The 66 Toro and Mike
> 
> --
> 

We sent that Toro out there just to check up on you.
- -- 
SLTG

------------------------------

From: STEE911@aol.com
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 01:29:58 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds cranks drilled for pilot bushing? 

you can have your crank machined for a std trans pilot bearing at most
machine shops

------------------------------

From: Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 05:09:00 -0300
Subject: Re: WOODWARD Cruise

>Don't forget about the Woodward Dream Cruise August 17 in Michigan.


I will be there, of course... This weekend is the Midland, MI Antique 
Festival. Fairly good size car show, I will be there (weather permitting, 
looks good so far). I will be wearing my brand new Bryceman Web page 
T-Shirt, It is cool, just the proper attire for Oldsmobiling. Any 
Michiganders planning on the Midland show?


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Michael R. Hall                                  Ortonville, Michigan
E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com                   OCA #17903
The Oldsmobile Stable:    
     1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
     1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...
         Brought to you by a Apple Power Macintosh 7100/80
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #246
********************************

