To:	oldsmobile-digest @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET @ ABTLAB
Date:	09/03/96 11:54:40 PM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #288


oldsmobile-digest        Tuesday, 3 September 1996     Volume 01 : Number 288


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 23:35:51 -0300
Subject: Re: car show adventures 

In a message dated 96-09-01 20:37:59 EDT, you write:

<< My dad ran a title search and only 4 other 80 442's are
 registered in Ohio.  >>

How can you tell this from a title search?  Your 442 is technically a Cutlass
Calais with the W30 442 appearance and handling option package.  If you're
running VIN #'s (3K47...) then the cars you're finding would be Calais not
442s.  They built over 26,000 Calais in '80, so it's hard to beleive that
there would only be 4 remaining in your state.

Now, I guess if you're searching for 3K47R..... then that will find all the
442s because the R engine was only available with the 442 package.  Is that
how you did it?  Not doubtling you, just curious.  Wish we could search like
that in PA.

Do they give you the other 4 numbers to compare with yours?

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 23:40:04 -0300
Subject: Re: Halls Visit 

In a message dated 96-09-02 01:50:28 EDT, you write:

<< stopped in at Halls >>

Just curious.  I'm looking for a '66 Starfire with bench seat and a column
automatic.  Someone told me I need the trans shifter linkage to convert my
'67 98 to duals.  Trans rod is bowed instead of straight to make room for the
pipe on the driver's side.  The car my manifold came out of is gone (it was a
console anyway).  Thinking this part should interchange between '66 & '67???
 Did you see any cars equipped like this?

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 23:35:43 -0300
Subject: Re: 78 Delta 88 Royal 

In a message dated 96-08-31 17:49:52 EDT, you write:

<< I knew of a 78 Royal 88 holiday that was painted like the pace car, but
was in
 sliver and dark silver with a silver soft top. It had bucket seats, center
 consol and it was in red vinyl. Does anyone know if this car was limited. It
 was bought of the show floor from a dealer by my grandfather so it was a
 production car. It also had the rally wheels....
  >>

I had one of these in the '79 flavor.  But this package was option on the
base 88 coupe, not the Royale.  Was all black w/red interior & black landau
top and Super Stock wheels.  Only had a 260 and couldn't get out of its own
way.  That two tone paint was an option for all the Deltas that year and was
a little different from how the '77 pace car was painted.  '78 was the first
year for these Holiday 88 models and they made them up thru '81.  Production
of these models was not limited and there seems to be a fairly good supply of
them around.  Just around here there used to be a '78, two tone green, green
vinyl top, saddle interior, painted hubcaps.  There was another '79, two tone
blue, blue vinyl top, blue cloth bucket interior, wire wheels.  A buddy from
MD had an '80, white, saddle interior, no vinyl top, and std. wheel covers.
 It's interesting that Dennis Casteele's book, The Cars of Oldsmobile, makes
no mention of the Holiday 88 option until '80.  It lists production of the
'80 Delta 88 coupe at 6,845 units.  Says more than 1/2 of these had the Y78
Holiday 88 option at a cost of $295.  More than half, that pretty many as far
as ratio, but its only around 3400 cars, which seems kind of scarce to me.
 Seems strange that I don't remember seeing one of these at an OCA Nat.

Paul
former owner of a '79 Holiday

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 23:48:19 -0300
Subject: Re: New Toro...Not 

In a message dated 96-09-02 20:49:12 EDT, you write:

<<  my wife just
 ordered a new truck (F*rd) >>

Sounds like grounds for divorce!

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 23:48:20 -0300
Subject: Re: car show adventures 

In a message dated 96-09-02 20:50:45 EDT, you write:

<< 3.  After 100 feet, if the skateboard is ahead you have a 260.  If the 
      skateboarder is eating rocket fumes, you have a 350 :-) >>

Hey!  That was my '79 Holiday 88 to a T!  That damn kid on the skateboard won
every time!

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 23:48:11 -0300
Subject: Re: One more question 

In a message dated 96-09-02 20:34:05 EDT, you write:

<< One instance I have seen where NOS items were collected from a dealer of 
 Pontiacs in my town surprised me.  My friend bought all the Old stock 
 that the dealer had.  Nearly everything was in the factory boxes.  While 
 speaking to one of the older employees, he remarked that many of these 
 items were taken off new cars years ago because the customers wanted 
 them replaced as they had flaws.  I suspect he was talking about trim.  
 I hope that he wasn't talking about mechanical or electrical items.  >>

Hemming's Motor News says NOS means NEW OLD STOCK.  Since they are "the BIBLE
of the old car hobby" I guess we have to believe them.  What you say about
"take-off" items is true.  I purchased what I thought was an NOS clock for my
'67 at OCA Nat's.  Soon as I took it our of the original box I knew that it
had come out of another car.  Luckily the guy was real nice and took it back.
 Sometimes you gotta be careful with this stuff, althought everything else I
have bought that was professed to be NOS has been.

Paul

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 19:03:29 -0300
Subject: Re: wheel covers

PHartlieb@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 96-09-01 09:05:01 EDT, you write:
> 
> << But in looking thru my literature to answer
>  Brad's question I see no mention of a SSI for '68, just SSII. Is this
>  just an oversight or were they not offered that year?
>   >>
> 
> Ya know Greg, I was thinkin' the same thing as I was typing the reply to his
> post.  SS wheels are mentioned in the '66 & '67 Product Selling Features
> manuals.  SSII wheels only are mentioned in the '68 manual.  I looked to see
> if I had a bulletin about late availability (re-introduction) of the SS wheel
> and I don't.  I'm guessing the SSII was the logical replacement for the SS
> and the SS was dropped.  Someone at Olds probably realized their popularity
> and what a giant mistake had been made and they were made available again on
> the '69s as SSI 
> 
> So now ya know.
> 
> Paul
> Do I get a gold star this time?


Paul,

You don't get nothin'.  You gotta be wrong.  I got 'em on my car.  I put 
'em on my car. It's gotta be right.  Right?

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

PS:  I may be forced to put SSII's on my car afterall.

------------------------------

From: Katana72@aol.com
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 00:09:54 -0300
Subject: Re: Aluminum intake cleaning 

if it's pretty dirty, bead blast it. then maybe use some neverdull. I used a
bead blaster (glass beads) on an aftermarket intake and it worked very well.
It can be shined up with some aluminum wheel polish and a dremel tool with a
small polishing tip works wonders int the small areas. 
Rob Turner             Hastings, MN         72 Cutlass

------------------------------

From: Katana72@aol.com
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 00:12:19 -0300
Subject: Re: TH-2004R Parts needed.... 

give ray hauser a call. An INVALUABLE asset to the olds community. His number
is 804.498.8316.He may have a spare 200-r4 that he can sell the valve body
from.

------------------------------

From: DBH3@aol.com
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 00:14:47 -0300
Subject: SUBSCRIBE OLDSMOBILE 

SUBSCRIBE OLDSMOBILE

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 15:38:16 -0300
Subject: Member meeting

Met Robert Lawrence this weekend.  Friday night, at the Outback Steakhouse,
a restaurant in Palm Bay.  Had a pretty good time, even though we didn't get
to talk too much.  Mostly me talking, on account of having about four beers
in about a half hour's time.  Got that potty mouth; it just ran and ran and
ran (according to the wife, anyway).  

The conversation was mostly about Oldsmobiles, which didn't bother me one
bit.  It's great talking to someone who has the same interest and knows
_exactly_ what you're talking about.  He didn't have his Olds with him (he
lives in Michigan [right, Robert?]); he flew down.  Saw a picture of it
though, in another local establishment.  Sharp looking 98!  Can't compare to
a Cutlass, though, but I'm partial.  Nice looking car, anyway.

Hey, if any of ya'll are planning on being down this way, drop me a line.
We'll hook up and spend some quality Olds time together!

Nice meetin' ya, Robert!
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Katana72@aol.com
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 00:16:59 -0300
Subject: Re: Strange Tabs on Back Seat of 72 Cutlass 

Would like to go to jefferson, Wi. Where is it near?  I live in Hastings, MN,
near St.Paul. 

------------------------------

From: Frank Boerger <103454.317@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 00:25:39 -0300
Subject: FW: 1966 Hubcaps

Brad:

I, like you have a '68 conv.  Mine is in about as mant pieces as the parts book
can contain.  Also, I did not know the difference from a SSI, or II, or III.  
If
you can get your hands on a Year One catalog, they have an excellent section
describing the different types, and years offered.

Frank Boerger
'68 Cutlass convertible/'68 coupe-for-parts>


>.I would like to find the SS wheels for my softtop but I dont know the
>difference between the SSI,SSII or SSIII.Any help here?

------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei-2@mail.idt.net>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 00:35:03 -0300
Subject: Re: FW: 1966 Hubcaps 

At 12:25 AM 9/3/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Brad:
>
>If you can get your hands on a Year One catalog, they have an excellent 
section
>describing the different types, and years offered.
>
>Frank Boerger
>'68 Cutlass convertible/'68 coupe-for-parts

Visit Year One's web site (sorry don't know the URL off hand) and request a
catalog, they'll send you one for free. I did and was surprised to receive
it in less than 2 weeks.

 >Dave Isho --- davei-2@mail.idt.net
     >67 Cutlass CS Convertible
     

------------------------------

From: Katana72@aol.com
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 00:35:48 -0300
Subject: Re: 68 cutlass 

You guys aren't the only fans out there. I have a 68 cutlass s convertible.
Pretty rough shape, but the price was right. I plan to start working on it
this winter
Katana (as close to "Cutlass" as I could come in Japanese) 72

------------------------------

From: Brad Baker <bradbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 00:42:54 -0300
Subject: Re: wheel covers

At 02:34 09/03/1996 +0000, you wrote:
>In a message dated 96-09-01 09:05:01 EDT, you write:
>
><< But in looking thru my literature to answer 
> Brad's question I see no mention of a SSI for '68, just SSII. Is this 
> just an oversight or were they not offered that year?
>  >>
>
>Ya know Greg, I was thinkin' the same thing as I was typing the reply to his
>post.  SS wheels are mentioned in the '66 & '67 Product Selling Features
>manuals.  SSII wheels only are mentioned in the '68 manual.  
>So now ya know.
>
>Paul
>Do I get a gold star this time?
>
>
Hey Paul,
Thanks for going overtime to lookup my wheels!! You must have finished
working on your cars because you seem to have too much time available to
answer questions for this forum.Either that,or the wife is sleeping ;)
!!!Anyway,thanks again for the help.Just goes to show you that '68s are one
of a kind!!!

Brad  (0-0|||||0-0)

------------------------------

From: Brad Baker <bradbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 00:44:48 -0300
Subject: Re: car show adventures

At 02:34 09/03/1996 +0000, you wrote:
>In a message dated 96-09-01 20:47:53 EDT, you write:
>
><< Speaking of fun, I saw my first Pinto in a show.  >>
>
>I wondered when one of these was gonna show up somewhere.  Saw a Maverick
>once.  Guess next think ya know it'll be Vegas!
>
>Paul
>
When your in Vegas,put $100 on Red for me ;) !!!
Brad...

------------------------------

From: Frank Boerger <103454.317@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 00:47:47 -0300
Subject: FW: Body Repair Work Questions

>I know as far as the reproduction patches go, there are 
>fender patches available, but I have never seen Q-panel patch panels 
>advertised anywhere, and I have tons of catalogs for my car.  If anyone >knows
about Q-panel patch panels that are available, I'd sure like to know about it.
Anyway, that's my question.  What's up guys, whadda ya think???

         >Craig Dobbins

Craig:

I'm also searching for quarter panels and outer wheel houses.  I have one outer
wheel house from Brother's Automotive...(non-convert.), it fits my coupe just
fine, but will take much rework to fit the conv.  Sherman's have repro 
Taiwanese
quarters, for coupes, at about $ 160 ea, plus $hipping.  Let me know if you 
find
any better prices, but I think you're right, we'll have to make do with the
coupe repops.

Frank Boerger
'68 Cutlass convertable/'68 couppe-for-parts

------------------------------

From: "Graham Stewart" <graham.stewart@utoronto.ca>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 00:59:40 -0300
Subject: Re: 1966 Hubcaps

> From: PHartlieb@aol.com

> OK.  15" tires & wheels were available as heavy duty equipment in '66.  
> I think wheel covers is this case were Toronado-like poverty hubcaps with
a trim ring.  There was no 15" >wheel cover option for '66.  

Yes, Paul, that's the correct translation from what my parts manual says: 
The only thing listed to accompany a 15 inch wheel was the trim ring and
the smaller hub cap (Toronado type)

Graham Stewart
graham.stewart@utoronto.ca

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 01:54:15 -0300
Subject: Re: wheel covers 

At 10:34 PM 9/2/96 -0400, you wrote:
>In a message dated 96-09-01 09:05:01 EDT, you write:
[snip]
>interesting.  Did you know that SSII wheels were an option on '68 Delmont 88,
>Delta 88 and Delta Custom models?
>
>So now ya know.
>
>Paul
>Do I get a gold star this time?

I'll go you one better; I've got a factory picture (The Complete History of
General Motors, 1908-1986, p. 277; also from the Oct. 1966 Motor Trend
article "Driving the Hot '67's, as reprinted on p.30 of Brooklands'
"Oldsmobile Muscle Cars, 1964-1971") of a 1967 Delta 88 Custom Holiday
hardtop sedan with what unmistakeably appear to be SSII wheels.

Of course, that may have only been a prototype or show-car version of the
wheel that never made it to production, but they did exist back then.

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Limited Landau Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 01:54:12 -0300
Subject: Re: wheel covers 

At 05:51 PM 9/1/96 -0400, you wrote:
>At 13:02 09/01/1996 +0000, you wrote:
>>You know, something about checking on Brad's wheel cover question just 
>>struck me... 
>>
>>My favorite Olds wheel for this generation was the SSI. I have seen it on 
>
>Hey Greg,
>That strange that no mention was made about the '68 wheels.Must be one more
>reason why '68's are one of a kind!! I need to look for some of the books
>and mags that people have been talking about.I live here in Colchester,CT.USA.
>Kind of a cow town,but really nice if you like the country and the woods.
>Thanks for your input...  
>
>Brad-'68 is #1

Too bad they closed down your track and turned it into a Consumer Reports
compound... Then you could've shown what your '68 could do in the 1/4 mile.

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Limited Landau Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 01:54:09 -0300
Subject: Re: Lucky or What? 

At 08:31 PM 9/2/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Am I lucky or are there more than 1 Fusics (spelling?) parts dealer in the
>country? There is one here in East Windsor CT.,about a half an hour from my
>house.(Really Conn. is so small that everything is about a half an hour from

That's them; just north of the exit for the airport, just north of the
bridge that crosses the CT river, take a right at the end of the off ramp,
left at the Dunkin' Donuts (a drive-through; yeah!), and it's in an
industrial park, 9th building on the right; pull in the driveway just past
the building.

Last time I was there, they had some of the bays open, and I saw a couple of
the cars they had there; heck, only an orange '70 W-30 convert. and a ~'56
88 in #1 condition. Has anyone ever seen their cars at shows or anything?

BTW, where are you? I'm in Providence, but regularly go back to Middletown
and Stratford, and wan't aware that there was another Olds fanatic here in
NE (except of course for "Big Red" up in the center of the universe...)

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Limited Landau Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 02:15:07 -0300
Subject: Re: 1976 Cutlass S 

At 12:03 AM 9/2/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Just discovered the Oldmobile Mail List today.
>
>I own 2 1976 Olds Cutlass S's. The first one I purchased brand new. I am
>the second owner of the second (since 1991).
[snip]
>I'm wondering if there are any other fans of the 76-77 Cutlass's or am I in
>a world of my own.

You're not alone; I learned to drive (and crash) in my mom's '77 Vista
Cruiser. I didn't total it; mom did, on an icy backroad- the Vista
sacrificed its frame to save her (what a tank!). I always thought that car
would look real sweet, converted to a 2-door, with a chopped top, and a
blown-455 with a TH425 transaxle in the back, so that the scoop stuck
through the roof...

I also think that the Cutlass was the only GM A-body to pull off the
conversion to square headlights with any style (Monte Carlos excepted; they
were G-bodies anyway). A family friend also had a '76 Cutlass S, with the
sloping grille, blue with white interior.

Really nice cars, if you can keep the bumpers on them...

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Limited Landau Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Mark Bethke Jr." <mbethke@btigate.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 02:25:47 -0300
Subject: 403 V8

I have a 1977 Olds Toro with a 403 4bbl. I would like to beef up the
motor a little. I have heard that this is a bad motor to do anything
with. I was wondering if anyone has some more info on this motor and if
it is worth doing anything with it.

------------------------------

From: Esko Ilola <esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 08:56:09 -0300
Subject: More Ignition, tips tears and tries

If you have the old-fashioned mechanical breaker-contact ignition system in 
your 
car and you don't want to or can't replace it with a HEI, read the following.

As I told in my earlier article, the capacitor in the ignition system slows 
down 
the voltage rise in ignition coil so that the breaker contacts have enough 
time to 
open. This is the reason why you have a capacitor. The capacitor has also some 
side-effects. As it slows down the voltage rise, it eats some of the ignition 
energy causing a weak(er) spark. A good thing in this slowing is that the 
ignition 
system generates less radio-interference. And last but not least the capacitor 
is a 
sensitive component that can fail easily.

A breaker booster (or spark booster if you wish) eliminates the capacitor from 
the 
ignition system by using a breaker that opens so fast that even the fastest 
voltage 
rise can't follow it.

A high-speed high-voltage transistor would be ideal for this purpose. A 
transistor 
acts like a light relay; a relatively small current controls a lot bigger 
current. 
If a relay would be fast enough, it could be used for this purpose instead of 
a 
transistor. However a relay is a very slow device compared with a transistor. 
If 
you take the fastest mechanical relay that you can find and compare it with a 
'slow' transistor, the transistor still wins 1000 times both in time and 
current. 
And further more, the transistor is a lot cheaper. The only reason why they 
use 
relays is that a relay has very small resistance when conducting thus causing 
minimal voltage drops. Another reason is that a transistor needs some 
protection to 
be reliable under the hood.

In most mechanical ignition systems there is a current limiting resistor. 
Because 
of this resistor it is safe to say that a little more resistance in the system 
won't hit the performance.

A good breaker booster is easy to construct. If you feel interested, send a 
note 
for me, I send a detailed description (with pictures) of the unit.

- -- 
**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi           *
* X400  G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
* Oldsmobile 98  1964  4D HT                 *
**********************************************

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 09:01:26 -0300
Subject: Newest Addition to the Family (Not an Olds, tho)

This past Sunday (my wife's B-day BTW), we became to proud new owners of
a 1989 Caddy Fleetwood Sedan, purchased from me Grand Dad (*He's* currently
driving a '96 Caddy Concours). Gold (OK, OK, 'Antelope Firemist', according
to the window sticker that came with it).  50K on the odometer. *Never* seen
a winter; in fact, when I went to have a li'l trailer hitch put on, the folks
at the shop thought it was a brand new car.

Never smoked in, either... 'cept for it's trip up from NJ, when my uncle and
his new wife the chain smoker drove it up here :P

The front wheel drive will come in handy during the New England winters in 
these
parts... and the fuel injected 4.5L V8 is an ample motivator :)
And the Bose sound system works very well indeed.

Doesn't have a nickname yet... any ideas?

Unfortunately, my .sig lied... this replaces the Olds-powered Brougham, which
goes to my sister & bro-in-law, the Jedi Master Goodwrench at the Olds
dealership.  We still have the d*mn Mazda.  But, that's what the Boss wants to
drive.

I'll make do with Big Red and the Fleetwood :)



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'Really, Really The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 09:59:46 -0300
Subject: Re: Strange Tabs on Back Seat of 72 Cutlass 

>        I will be at the 'Fall Little Carlisle" in Jefferson, WI on Sun, 
>     Sept. 20.  If anybody is curious about this and will be there, send me 
>     a message and we can meet up. 

Ummmm... No. There is no Sunday the 20th. How about Sunday the 22nd?  ;-)

That might be do-able for me; if it's actually Friday, Sept. 20, I'll be
out of town elsewhere.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: bryce_smith@442.com (Bryceman)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 11:16:15 -0300
Subject: Re: Mail List Link 

>BTW Bryce, if you wan't a copy of the HTML FAQ for the Old's page I'll send
>it to you.
>Or you can just link to my page http://www.en.com/users/thall/oldsfaq2.htm
>I'll convert the new FAQ as soon as Dave is done with it.

Todd, that would be great!, I'd like to have the HTML version on the Olds
page. Did you do the HTML for the one on Shawn's page?

       Life, Liberty and the "Hot Pursuit" of Oldsmobiles
'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender  '65 442   '72 Cutlass Convertible
           Email: bryceman@442.com  URL: www.442.com

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 15:11:59 -0300
Subject: Re: New Toro...Not

Todd Hall wrote:
> 
> Well, decided to pass on the '66 Toro.

Bummer.

> Also, my wife just ordered a new truck (F*rd) 

YIKES!

> geez, an ya even started a new Toro list!

Always welcome to join...

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Peter_Teubel_at_Safety1st-MA@harte-hanks.com
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 15:15:34 -0300
Subject: Re: 403 V8 

     I'd like to know also.  The only aftermarket parts I've seen is 
     Edlebrock intake manifolds for it, but that's about it.
     
     I'll be watching for any replies.....


______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: 403 V8
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at ~INTERNET
Date:    9/3/96 12:29 AM


I have a 1977 Olds Toro with a 403 4bbl. I would like to beef up the 
motor a little. I have heard that this is a bad motor to do anything 
with. I was wondering if anyone has some more info on this motor and if 
it is worth doing anything with it.
     

------------------------------

From: tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 13:26:16 -0300
Subject: defining NOS

I've heard it as both "New Old Stock" and "New Original Stock".
Either way it refers to parts made back in <year> that were in 
excess of what was needed for the production run that year.  
Usually this is done to cover "in the field" replacements 
done as dealer service contracts or collision repair or whatever.
The idea is that if you buy these parts, you can be 100% sure 
that they match and will be correct (and thus get you points
when the judge comes around with the fine tooth comb).  That's
the idea anyway.  YMMV (your mileage may vary).


- - Travis and the 69 olds 98 convertible aka "Tiny"

- --
Travis McWaters                           Transmission Products Division
tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com               DSC Communications Corporation

------------------------------

From: tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 13:50:20 -0300
Subject: North Tx. zone show

I went out to the North Texas zone show last Saturday and had a
great time.  By far the best part (for me) was when the decided
to move under coverd parking due to the thread of rain.  We got
to see (and hear!) all those olds's fire up and actually drive
around a bit.  It was like one huge cruise night.  Very nice!

Fortunatly only a few cars got wet, and none of it damaging.
I got to meet some nice folks and I gained some valuable info.
All in all one great day.

Unfortunatly I didn't take Tiny to the show.  I was worried about
the rain (the top won't keep it out yet) and the car is still far
for show material.  Good news is that I'm planing to go to the
top shop this week.  Hopefully in a week or two we'll at least be
weatherproof.  

Paint is the last big step, and that is hopefully going to happen 
in the forseeable future.  I'm still taking suggestions for the color.  
I need something that will go nicely with a black interior and top, 
and that wiill look good on 22 feet of car (lots of the brighter 
colors look fine on the smaller cars but come out ugly on something 
this large).  The car was oringally white and is now painted a metal
flake dark read/maroon-ish color.  I'd like to go with something
at least plausably original, but I'm flexable on that.  The only color
that is 100% NOT do-able is pink.  Already been vetoed by the lady 
that holds the title.  :-)


- - Travis and the 69 olds 98 convertible aka "Tiny"

- --
Travis McWaters                           Transmission Products Division
tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com               DSC Communications Corporation

------------------------------

From: hitson@leadbelt.com (Roger Hitson)
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 01:59:53 -0300
Subject: Re: Problem with '68 442 - Rear end leak

>Hi everybody,
>  I have a little problem.  Last night I crawled under my '68 442 to inspect 
>the undercarrige.  I noticed that on the passenger side, back by the fuel 
>tank (in front of the fuel tank/towards the wheels), there is a residue build 
>up on my tailpipe (the part that connects to the straight pipe, loops up, and 
>then connects to the exhaust pipe and tips).  It looks very black; I rubbed 
>my finger on it and smelled it.  It sort of smells gas-like, but not totally. 
> There is also a lot of residue on one of the fuel lines coming out of the 
>tank (rubber - then connected to steel pipe after about 7 inches.  The other 
>fuel line is all steel, possibly a fix-up, whatdda ya think?).  I thought it 
>was this, but then looked up and saw that it was also on the under side of my 
>upper trunk/convertable top well area.  It sort of looked like it was seeping 
>in from inside of the trunk, but there's nothing in there to leak something 
>like that, besides the convert. top motor, and I don't think it's that.  What 
>do you think???  The residue on the pipe itself runs along a good length of 
>the underside of the tailpipe that connects to the straight pipe (which then 
>loops up and out).  It's quite thick and pasty, so it has to have been there 
>for a while.  Any ideas about what this could be from????  Please help, I 
>have no idea where it could be coming from, but I will probably replace that 
>rubber hose coming out of the tank just to be sure about that.  But, like I 
>said, there is also residue on the underside of the upper trunk area, so I'm 
>kinda confused about it?  Any help out there????
>
>
>                                                Thank you all,
>                                                 Craig Dobbins.
>
>
>
>
Check out the hydraulic lines operating your convertible top and/or the 
cylinders.
                                                      Roger Hitson   

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 14:08:16 -0300
Subject: 98 Conv Color 

Travis,
As the happy owner of a 66 98 convertible, I agree with your comments on
bright colors for the big cars. Can I suggest a good medium to navy blue
or target red like my 66 with a black top/interior.
cf

------------------------------

From: Rocketeer <bparker@nmsu.edu>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 14:21:48 -0300
Subject: Re: 1966 Hubcaps

Many years ago I saw a '66 Vista Cruiser with the factory 15" wheel option.
What it consisted of was a body colored wheel with a trim ring and the
standard (dog dish) hubcap. This option was available on all '66 F-85 
cars with the odd exception of the convertible. How this applies to the
full size cars may be different. 

Boyd Parker (aka Rocketeer)            __|__
                                      |  |  |  Why drive just a car...
1966 4-speed Cutlass Convertible      |  |  |  when you can ride a rocket !
1970 4-4-2 Convertible                |  |  |
                                      | /|\ |
                                      |/ | \|
                                      |__|__|
                                         |

------------------------------

From: DELPROPO@emuvax.emich.edu
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 14:30:51 -0300
Subject: RE: Problem with '68 442 - Rear end leak 

It sounds like the overfill hose for the gas tank. It the tank is toped off the
gas may expand and you will see it in the are you are describing. The hose
looks as if it is going some place but ends at the top of the well , or the
area
the rear axle is. 

------------------------------

From: brett@actel.com
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 15:31:34 -0300
Subject: Jefferson, WI Show  

     
        The 'Fall Little Carlisle' is a pretty big show in Jefferson, WI.  
This 
     is about 30 miles East of Madison.  Directions are to head East on I-94 
to 
     WI State Hwy 26 South.  It is just a few miles from there on 26.  The 
     I-94/Hwy 26 interchange was under construction last time I was through 
     there.  The detour will take you off of I-94 West of Jefferson and take 
you 
     right into town.  Watch for the signs in town.  Some are rather small.  
     This is probably a 300 mile trip from MSP.
     
        If anybody is heading up from the South (Chicago area), take I-90 
North 
     to Janesville.  In Janesville, take State Route 26 North for about 25 
miles 
     to Jefferson.
     
        The thing begins on Saturday, Sept 21, with the swap meet and car 
     corral.  These events as well as a car show are also on the 22th.  As 
     Andrew pointed out, there is no Sun. Sept 20.  I guess using the October 
     calendar is not an effective substitute for Sept. dates.  Sorry.
     
     Brett Chaveriat                brett@actel.com 
     Arlington Hts, IL
     
     '72 Cutlass Supreme convt  
     
     
     
______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Strange Tabs on Back Seat of 72 Cutlass
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at SMTPlink-Actel 
Date:    9/2/96 8:34 PM
     
     
Would like to go to jefferson, Wi. Where is it near?  I live in Hastings, MN, 
near St.Paul. 
     

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 14:53:57 -0300
Subject: Speedo Waver (was: Halls Visit -Reply) 

>As an example I was looking for a cruise unit since mine makes the
>speedo waver all over the place. 

Are you sure it's the cruise unit?  My speedo was doing the same thing...
when I was going 40, my speedo wobbled between 30 and 50.  At the
same time, it made an annoying rubbing sound (which I didn't know was
coming from the speedo).  I'm not sure why I thought it would help, but I
unhooked the speedo cable from the back of the speedometer and
jammed some moly grease into the cap, then reinstalled it.  after driving
around the block, all noise was gone and needle was steady as the
hand of a painter.  Perhaps it's just dry cables that are making your
needle jump.  Although I have had no problems (been a year) since, I
believe there is a special kind of cable lube you should use instead of
molly grease.  Anyone?

- -Blaine

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 15:02:32 -0300
Subject: Speedo Waver 

Blaine,
Thanks for the tip, I solved my waver by putting the original cable (non-
cruise) back in. Your solution sounds like part of my problem, but also
my wheel to cruise cable has some kinks which inhibit the rotation of the
cable. Does anyone have a source for replacement speedo cable housings?
Most of the boneyard ones I've seen are equally bent. Any ideas on how to
straighten?
cf

------------------------------

From: "AUVAX7::RILES" <RILES%AUVAX7.decnet@auscam.amd.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 15:32:00 -0300
Subject: RE: North Tx. zone show

Travis wrote:

>I went out to the North Texas zone show last Saturday and had a
>great time.  By far the best part (for me) was when the decided
>to move under coverd parking due to the thread of rain.  We got
>to see (and hear!) all those olds's fire up and actually drive
>around a bit.  It was like one huge cruise night.  Very nice!

>Fortunatly only a few cars got wet, and none of it damaging.
>I got to meet some nice folks and I gained some valuable info.
>All in all one great day.

I was there too and really had a great time.  I drove my Cutlass Convertible 
200 
miles from Austin, dodging the rain clouds all the way.  As this was my first 
show, I was drooling over almost every car there.  I was impressed by the 
percentage of convertibles.  The mad dash for cover when the rains came was a 
sight to see and hear.  Especially the two '67 442s, the tri-power in 
particular. 
Seems I remember Art Fuller goosing his blue '70 442 convertible a little 
too.  

I'll be there next year.

- -Robert Iles
'71 Cutlass Convertible (the white one)

------------------------------

From: hitson@leadbelt.com (Roger Hitson)
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 03:40:07 -0300
Subject: Re: Speedo Waver (was: Halls Visit -Reply)

>>As an example I was looking for a cruise unit since mine makes the
>>speedo waver all over the place. 
>
>Are you sure it's the cruise unit?  My speedo was doing the same thing...
>when I was going 40, my speedo wobbled between 30 and 50.  At the
>same time, it made an annoying rubbing sound (which I didn't know was
>coming from the speedo).  I'm not sure why I thought it would help, but I
>unhooked the speedo cable from the back of the speedometer and
>jammed some moly grease into the cap, then reinstalled it.  after driving
>around the block, all noise was gone and needle was steady as the
>hand of a painter.  Perhaps it's just dry cables that are making your
>needle jump.  Although I have had no problems (been a year) since, I
>believe there is a special kind of cable lube you should use instead of
>molly grease.  Anyone?
>
>-Blaine
>
>
>
Motorcycle shops sell a special tool  (low cost) for lubricating cables. 
They work really well.

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 16:29:20 -0300
Subject: HEI Nightmare! 

Two weeks ago, I acquired an HEI distributor out of '79 Cutlass 350. 
Installing it has been a total nightmare!  What should have been a leisurely
2 hour job has turned into a week and a half.  And it's still not right!  We
finally got the distributor in the right way and it fired right up.  Ooh, it 
idled
a lot smoother than it used to.  I thought everything was perfect, till I
went for a drive.  When I eased into the gas, the higher the RPM's, the
worse it got.  At about 3000 RPM's, it sounded like a helicopter.  From
stand-still, punching the gas used to smoke the tires through second
gear.  Now it has less power than my 4 cylinder truck.  Top speed is
now 65 MPH!  Speed and power have both been cut in half.  I replaced
the wires with Accel 8mm wires and put in new plugs gapped at .060. 
What the h*ll is the problem???  All I can think of is the plugs.  Should I
reduce the gap?  I thought HEI was supposed to be better!  I'm so
disgusted with it so far that I'm ready to switch back.  Any suggestions
would be appreciated...

Thanks,
Blaine
'72 Gutlass Supreme


It came out easily.  I checked for side to side wobble in the shaft.  None
of that, but it does move up and down about 1/4".  

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 11:29:49 -0300
Subject: Re: Speedo Waver (was: Halls Visit -Reply)

Blaine Sanders 5483 wrote:
> 
> >As an example I was looking for a cruise unit since mine makes the
> >speedo waver all over the place.
> 
> Are you sure it's the cruise unit?  My speedo was doing the same thing...
> when I was going 40, my speedo wobbled between 30 and 50.  At the
> same time, it made an annoying rubbing sound (which I didn't know was
> coming from the speedo).  I'm not sure why I thought it would help, but I
> unhooked the speedo cable from the back of the speedometer and
> jammed some moly grease into the cap, then reinstalled it.  after driving
> around the block, all noise was gone and needle was steady as the
> hand of a painter.  Perhaps it's just dry cables that are making your
> needle jump.  Although I have had no problems (been a year) since, I
> believe there is a special kind of cable lube you should use instead of
> molly grease.  Anyone?
> 
> -Blaine

Blaine,

The cable can be pulled out of the case (tubing going to the 
transmission) from the speedometer head.  This can be cleaned w/a 
solvent & the cable lubricated w/most any light grease.  What you used 
will work.  The messy cable is then just fed back into the tubing until 
it seats.  Hook it back up to the speedometer.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 11:38:38 -0300
Subject: Re: New Toro...Not

Mike Frederick wrote:
> 
> Todd Hall wrote:
> >
> > Well, decided to pass on the '66 Toro.
> 
> Bummer.
> 
> > Also, my wife just ordered a new truck (F*rd)
> 
> YIKES!
> 
> > geez, an ya even started a new Toro list!
> 
> Always welcome to join...
> 
> The 66 Toro and Mike
> 


Mike,

Do we have to cancel the Toro List because Todd is not buying a Toro?

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 15:42:30 -0300
Subject: Re: Speedo Waver (was: Halls Visit -Reply) 

>> Although I have had no problems (been a year) since, I
>> believe there is a special kind of cable lube you should use instead of
>> molly grease.  Anyone?
>
>The cable can be pulled out of the case (tubing going to the 
>transmission) from the speedometer head.  This can be cleaned w/a 
>solvent & the cable lubricated w/most any light grease.

The last cable I bought came with a little packet of grease; it was
unlabeled but looked a lot like plain white lithium. Basically whatever
grease you use should be _light_; if it's too thick it will seize the
core and shear the end, especially in cold weather.

While you've got the core out, wipe it clean, then see if it will roll
flat on a smooth surface. If it's kinked, replace it.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 15:49:24 -0300
Subject: Re: HEI Nightmare! 

>It came out easily.  I checked for side to side wobble in the shaft.  None
>of that, but it does move up and down about 1/4".  

Ummm... (wild guesses follow)

- -- Vacuum advance not functioning?
- -- Advance weights seized?
- -- Shaft vertical slop allowing rotor to rise and bonk into the cap?
- -- Bad coil?
- -- Incorrect base timing?

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: bryceman@442.com (Bryceman)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 17:04:52 -0300
Subject: Re: HEI Nightmare! 

>stand-still, punching the gas used to smoke the tires through second
>gear.  Now it has less power than my 4 cylinder truck.  Top speed is
>now 65 MPH!  Speed and power have both been cut in half.  I replaced
>the wires with Accel 8mm wires and put in new plugs gapped at .060.
>What the h*ll is the problem???  All I can think of is the plugs.  Should I
>reduce the gap?  I thought HEI was supposed to be better!  I'm so
>disgusted with it so far that I'm ready to switch back.  Any suggestions
>would be appreciated...

The gap should be fine. My plugs are gapped at .080. It sounds like your
timing is way too retarded.

       Life, Liberty and the "Hot Pursuit" of Oldsmobiles
'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender  '65 442   '72 Cutlass Convertible
           Email: bryceman@442.com  URL: www.442.com

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 11:59:12 -0300
Subject: Re: North Tx. zone show

tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com wrote:
> 
> 
> Paint is the last big step, and that is hopefully going to happen
> in the forseeable future.  I'm still taking suggestions for the color.
> I need something that will go nicely with a black interior and top,
> and that wiill look good on 22 feet of car (lots of the brighter
> colors look fine on the smaller cars but come out ugly on something
> this large).  The car was oringally white and is now painted a metal
> flake dark read/maroon-ish color.  I'd like to go with something
> at least plausably original, but I'm flexable on that.  The only color
> that is 100% NOT do-able is pink.  Already been vetoed by the lady
> that holds the title.  :-)
> 
> - Travis and the 69 olds 98 convertible aka "Tiny"
> 
> --
> Travis McWaters                           


Travis,

Is there a richer looking color than black?  The chrome that is so 
tastefully done on that 98 would just gleam.  The white stripe tires 
would just set it off.  Of course that is only an opinion, but a very 
good one.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 12:03:37 -0300
Subject: Re: Problem with '68 442 - Rear end leak

Roger Hitson wrote:
> 
> >Hi everybody,
> >  I have a little problem.  Last night I crawled under my '68 442 to inspect
> >the undercarrige.  I noticed that on the passenger side, back by the fuel
> >tank (in front of the fuel tank/towards the wheels), there is a residue 
build
> >up on my tailpipe (the part that connects to the straight pipe, loops up, 
and
> >then connects to the exhaust pipe and tips).  It looks very black; I rubbed
> >my finger on it and smelled it.  It sort of smells gas-like, but not 
totally.
> > There is also a lot of residue on one of the fuel lines coming out of the
> >tank (rubber - then connected to steel pipe after about 7 inches.  The other
> >fuel line is all steel, possibly a fix-up, whatdda ya think?).  I thought it
> >was this, but then looked up and saw that it was also on the under side of 
my
> >upper trunk/convertable top well area.  It sort of looked like it was 
seeping
> >in from inside of the trunk, but there's nothing in there to leak something
> >like that, besides the convert. top motor, and I don't think it's that.  
What
> >do you think???  
> >
> >
> >                                                Thank you all,
> >                                                 Craig Dobbins.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> Check out the hydraulic lines operating your convertible top and/or the
> cylinders.
>                                                       Roger Hitson


That's right.  If brake fluid is in the lines, it will just melt 
undercoating & other petroleum products to make the mess that you 
describe. That stuff will eat up metal & paint too.   Take out the rear 
cushion & you should get a good view of the situation.

Bill culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 17:14:56 -0300
Subject: engine swap

Something terrible has happened.  Some fool ran into me last night while 
doing about double the speed limit.  His car was totaled, my car not only 
drove away, but the driver's door (where he hit me) would open-- odd, it 
never would before.  He did however cause enough damadge to my poor 
65,000 mile '74 Delta 88 that it would be too expensive for me to fix 
right now.  As I need a car bad, my only option is to put the motor & 
tranny into the motorless '84 cutlass which I have at home.  The car is 
an '84 Cutlass Supreme with buckets and center console shifter.  
Originally it had a 3.8l. in it, but was later changed to a 305 (not 
307!), part of which is still sitting in the car.  I need to put a 350 
rocket 4bbl. and a 400 turbo tranny in it.  The donor motor is in good 
shape-- see mileage above, and will not need to be rebuilt.  Does anybody 
have any experience in this kind of engine swap?  Any help would be 
appreciated!!  Also, I need to finance this swap.  I still have many good 
parts on the "88": the hood, dash has 1 barely noticeable crack on bottom 
and is still quite soft, all windows except windshield and driverside 
front door, rear end (don't know what gears, but can find out)trunk lid, 
electronic parts, speedo, etc.  have 3 good original factory headlight 
bulbs.  grill decent but a little pitted, header panel cracked on 
bottom, good front bench seat, and decent back seat, doors except for 
driverside.  If anyone is interested in anything, make me an offer!!  
Tell me what you need and I'll tell you if I've got it!  Interior is 
blue, exterior blue, but repainted and fading.

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 17:23:40 -0300
Subject: Re: 403 V8 

At 01:25 AM 9/3/96 -0400, you wrote:
>I have a 1977 Olds Toro with a 403 4bbl. I would like to beef up the
>motor a little. I have heard that this is a bad motor to do anything
>with. I was wondering if anyone has some more info on this motor and if
>it is worth doing anything with it.

Well, you've got two things I like:

A Toronado,
and a 403.

Your 403 is the one-year only, Toro-only 200hp 403 (all others, even the
Trans-Am motors, were the same 185hp versions). You have a
computer-controlled distributor on your 403.

Contrary to popular rumors, this is a *great* street motor; lots of low-end
torque in a small package. The bad rap that the 403 gets comes from its
windowed main webs; this is not a concern unless you are regularly spinning
an unbalanced 403 above 5000rpm (so no NASCAR racing with it, please).

The cam is the big weakness, as well as the high rear gears usually paired
with this motor (usually 2.41 to 2.73's). In addition, the nominally low
compression ratio (8.0:1) is actually lower (perhaps 7.5:1), due to
manufacturing variances, etc. (remember Chris Witt's tirades about this...?). 

With a bit more cam, some early heads (7a's preferred), and good gears, this
becomes a *really* good street motor. 

How do I know? I just finished building one for my Electra. I still have the
factory gears (2.41's), so the motor doesn't really start pulling in 3rd
gear until 80mph(!); with some better-matched 3.42's, this will be a great
motor for tooling around town.

Even with the 2.41's, though, low-end torque is much improved (never had
wheelspin problems until now... ;), but the stock Q-jet needs to be
rejetted, and the stock exhaust needs to be opened up a bit (2 1/2"
single-exhaust with high-flow cat in the works).

Your '77 Toro, however, is one _HEAVY_ beast! You could probably use the
3.23 gears from an earlier model to get you going, more than any motor work.
You won't find headers for your car, though big-block exhaust manifolds may
work, with dual pipes all the way to the back. With some more cam and
compression, that should make for a fun ride!

------------------------------

From: Todd Hall <thall@en.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 17:35:01 -0300
Subject: Re: New Toro...Not 

At 11:38 AM 9/3/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Mike Frederick wrote:
>> 
>> Todd Hall wrote:
>> >
>> > Well, decided to pass on the '66 Toro.
>> 
>> Bummer.
>> 
>> > Also, my wife just ordered a new truck (F*rd)
>> 
>> YIKES!


Well, The local Olds dealer was all out of Pick-ups!


Mike,
>
>Do we have to cancel the Toro List because Todd is not buying a Toro?
>
>Bill Culp
>Decatur, Alabama


Oh, that one hurts. :)


===============================================================================
I was classified surfing again this morning(I'll never learn), and found this: 

'70 442 rallye red w/black interior, Ram-Air, dual gate,
spoiler, 48k miles. $6500.00

Assuming it has a solid frame/body and is mechanically sound, is this a
reasonable price? I could handle another car as long as it's not a major
project like the Toro woulda been, just have to find someplace to store it
this winter. My '72 is at least 1-2 years from hitting the street, it would
be nice to have one to drive in the meantime.

hmmm, maybe time to hit the boss up for a raise , eh?

Todd Hall
(ducking the flames from the Toro guys) 
 

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 17:30:44 -0300
Subject: Re: engine swap 

At 04:14 PM 9/3/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Something terrible has happened.  Some fool ran into me last night while 
>doing about double the speed limit.  His car was totaled, my car not only 

Sorry about the bad news... :(

[snip]
>right now.  As I need a car bad, my only option is to put the motor & 
>tranny into the motorless '84 cutlass which I have at home.  The car is 
>an '84 Cutlass Supreme with buckets and center console shifter.  

Use the factory mounts for the 307; perhaps even the accessory brackets, if
space is tight.

The TH400 may be a bit tight; you might have to "massage" the transmission
tunnel to make it fit. You will also have to relocate the trans crossmember,
and shorten the driveshaft (and readjust the parking brake cables, and
exhaust hangers). If your car has a universal-pattern tranny, though, you
might be able to simply bolt-up your 350 to the existing transmission; where
is your current tranny from, the 305 or the 231 V-6?

I'm not saying that you would *want* to keep the original tranny, just that
it would be a simpler swap.

------------------------------

From: Todd Hall <thall@en.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 17:44:43 -0300
Subject: Re: Mail List Link 

At 11:16 AM 9/3/96 -0300, you wrote:
>>BTW Bryce, if you wan't a copy of the HTML FAQ for the Old's page I'll send
>>it to you.
>>Or you can just link to my page http://www.en.com/users/thall/oldsfaq2.htm
>>I'll convert the new FAQ as soon as Dave is done with it.
>
>Todd, that would be great!, I'd like to have the HTML version on the Olds
>page. Did you do the HTML for the one on Shawn's page?

Yes, it's a copy of the one on my page. I'll send the current version to you
so you can set it up on your site. As soon as Dave finishes the new version
I'll start to work on converting it. But it may take a little while, were
coming up on our fiscal year-end and I'm going to be pretty busy.



>       Life, Liberty and the "Hot Pursuit" of Oldsmobiles
>'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender  '65 442   '72 Cutlass Convertible
>           Email: bryceman@442.com  URL: www.442.com
>
>
>
>
J. Todd Hall                         
Cleveland, OH       
1972 4-4-2        

"If you ever drop your keys into a river of molten lava, let'em go, 
 because, man, they're gone." 
                                    

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 18:05:45 -0300
Subject: Re: HEI Nightmare! -Reply 

>The gap should be fine. My plugs are gapped at .080. It sounds like your
>timing is way too retarded.

We timed it.  We used the kind of timing gun that clamps around the #1
spark plug wire and connects to the battery.  Is there another kind that's
specifically for HEI?  I didn't think so.  It seems to be timed right, because
at idle, it runs beautifully.  I mean smoother than it ever has...  But the
faster you go, the worse it gets.  

>-- Vacuum advance not functioning?
>-- Advance weights seized?
>-- Shaft vertical slop allowing rotor to rise and bonk into the cap?
>-- Bad coil?
>-- Incorrect base timing?
>
>Andrew C. Green 

- -- The advance weights move freely. 
- -- Timing is correct (unless we're doing it wrong).
- -- Shouldn't there be a little vertical play in the shaft?
- -- It doesn't seem that a bad coil would cause these symptoms... 
- -- Vacuum advance seems kinda logical to me.  How do you check to
see that it's working?   It must have been working on my points
distributor...  And how do I fix a distributor with bad vacuum advance? 
Can you buy the vacuum mechanism separate?  Can I use the one off my
old distributor?  

I'm gonna go crazy if I don't get my car home soon!  I usually take heed to
that old saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".  Now I remeber why -- just 
my
luck. 

- -Blaine
'72 Gutlass Supreme (grr!)

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 16:53:37 -0300
Subject: Re: North Tx. zone show 

>Is there a richer looking color than black?

Why, yes, there is! Thank you for asking.  :-)

I'll put in a vote for dark green, and this has nothing to do with my
name. A nice rich shade of dark green, either solid or a fine-grained
metallic, would look nice, IMHO. The dark shade would add to the massive
look of the car but would avoid hiding details of the body that might be
lost in a solid black color. You also get to cash in on the last days of
the recent craze for dark green paint.

>Of course that is only an opinion, but a very good one.

Surprisingly enough, the one above is also very good.  ;-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 18:09:58 -0300
Subject: RE: HEI Nightmare!

First look at the control module... hell replace it for all the trouble =
that they are. then make sure mechanical and vacumn advance are working. =
Then make sure you have enough advance dialed in and away you go. Oh yes =
do you have a GOOD 12v source going to the distributor?
- ----------
From: 	Blaine Sanders 5483[SMTP:BLAINES@strata3d.com]
Sent: 	Tuesday, September 03, 1996 3:29 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	HEI Nightmare!

Two weeks ago, I acquired an HEI distributor out of '79 Cutlass 350.=20
Installing it has been a total nightmare!  What should have been a =
leisurely
2 hour job has turned into a week and a half.  And it's still not right! =
 We
finally got the distributor in the right way and it fired right up.  =
Ooh, it idled
a lot smoother than it used to.  I thought everything was perfect, till =
I
went for a drive.  When I eased into the gas, the higher the RPM's, the
worse it got.  At about 3000 RPM's, it sounded like a helicopter.  From
stand-still, punching the gas used to smoke the tires through second
gear.  Now it has less power than my 4 cylinder truck.  Top speed is
now 65 MPH!  Speed and power have both been cut in half.  I replaced
the wires with Accel 8mm wires and put in new plugs gapped at .060.=20
What the h*ll is the problem???  All I can think of is the plugs.  =
Should I
reduce the gap?  I thought HEI was supposed to be better!  I'm so
disgusted with it so far that I'm ready to switch back.  Any suggestions
would be appreciated...

Thanks,
Blaine
'72 Gutlass Supreme


It came out easily.  I checked for side to side wobble in the shaft.  =
None
of that, but it does move up and down about 1/4". =20

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 09:36:55 -0300
Subject: Square headlights

At 02:15 AM 9/3/96 -0300, you wrote:

>I also think that the Cutlass was the only GM A-body to pull off the
>conversion to square headlights with any style (
>- Bob Barry

There's a '69 442 around town here that has square headlights in it.  They
guy who owns it has it at shows once in a while.  Don't know what he used
for the headlight buckets, probably the ones from a '76 or so Cutlass.  It
looks really cool.

The same guy also has a Rallye 350 that's been modified for drag racing.
Blown big block motor with a custom made intake that has two four barrel
Holley's on it.  Rear and is tubbed with _HUGE_ meats back there.  It's on
the bottle (nitrous oxide).  Don't know any specs on the motor, but it
sounds _incredible_!
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 09:40:39 -0300
Subject: Motor mounts

Went to the local parts-monger store (Auto Zone, to be exact) to get motor
mounts and the rear tranny mount.  They looked up the parts in their
computer under '69 Olds Cutlass, 350 4bbl.  Nope, not available, they said.
OK, well look up a '72 Olds Cutlass, same parts.  Voila, they had 'em.
Kinda funny, they're the same damn part for both cars.  Don't know why it's
not listed for the '69 though.  Weird.
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 09:45:02 -0300
Subject: Re: More Ignition, tips tears and tries

At 08:56 AM 9/3/96 -0300, you wrote:

>A good breaker booster is easy to construct. If you feel interested, send a
note 
>for me, I send a detailed description (with pictures) of the unit.
>**********************************************
>* Esko Ilola                                 *
>* Email esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi           *
>* Oldsmobile 98  1964  4D HT                 *
>**********************************************

Please send that info my way!

Thanks!
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: <eekstrom@coris.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 18:30:04 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: HEI Nightmare!

     Recheck the firing order of the wires.  I mixed up a couple of wires 
     and got the same symptoms you mention.  I was positive I did it right 
     originally.  Sure enough when I double checked them, two were crossed. 
      When I swapped them, it ran like a top.
     
     Ed Ekstrom
     '72 Cutlass Supreme.
     

>>stand-still, punching the gas used to smoke the tires through second 
>>gear.  Now it has less power than my 4 cylinder truck.  Top speed is 
>>now 65 MPH!  Speed and power have both been cut in half.  I replaced 
>>the wires with Accel 8mm wires and put in new plugs gapped at .060.
>>What the h*ll is the problem???  All I can think of is the plugs.  Should 
>>I reduce the gap?  I thought HEI was supposed to be better!  I'm so 
>>disgusted with it so far that I'm ready to switch back.  Any suggestions 
>>would be appreciated...
     
>The gap should be fine. My plugs are gapped at .080. It sounds like your 
>timing is way too retarded.
     
     
     
     

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 18:49:41 -0300
Subject: RE: HEI Nightmare! -Reply 

>>> Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com> 09/03/96 03:09pm >>>
>First look at the control module... hell replace it for all the trouble = that
>they are. 

OK, what's the control module?  (sorry guys -- Ignition and Carburation
are the two areas I know *nothing* about)  Is that the "rotor" thing that
spins around?  Or is it some kind of electronic thingymajig?  Are they
expensive?  

>then make sure mechanical and vacumn advance are working. =

How do you check mech. & vac. advances?

>Then make sure you have enough advance dialed in and away you go.

How much advance should I have?  This engine isn't a stock 350.  It's
been slightly modified for mild street racing.  I seem to recall that the last
time I timed it (about a year ago), the stock timing specs didn't make it run
quite right...  Also, could  this distributor have been tweaked a little
different to run a smogger '79 350?  

>Oh yes = do you have a GOOD 12v source going to the distributor?

I'll see if I can find a voltometer and double check the current...



 

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 18:53:58 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: HEI Nightmare! -Reply 

OK, I'll recheck the wires.  I didn't put them on, so it's possible =).  You
got the same simptoms?  Did it idle nice and look right on the timing mark
before you fixed the wire order?  I would have thought that if two wires
were crossed, it would idle like a dog and wouldn't time right...


>>> <eekstrom@coris.com> 09/03/96 03:30pm >>>
     Recheck the firing order of the wires.  I mixed up a couple of wires 
     and got the same symptoms you mention.  I was positive I did it right 
     originally.  Sure enough when I double checked them, two were
crossed. 
      When I swapped them, it ran like a top.
     
     Ed Ekstrom
     '72 Cutlass Supreme.
     

>>stand-still, punching the gas used to smoke the tires through second 
>>gear.  Now it has less power than my 4 cylinder truck.  Top speed is 
>>now 65 MPH!  Speed and power have both been cut in half.  I replaced
 >>the wires with Accel 8mm wires and put in new plugs gapped at
.060.
>>What the h*ll is the problem???  All I can think of is the plugs.  Should 
>>I reduce the gap?  I thought HEI was supposed to be better!  I'm so 
>>disgusted with it so far that I'm ready to switch back.  Any
suggestions  >>would be appreciated...
      >The gap should be fine. My plugs are gapped at .080. It sounds like
your  >timing is way too retarded.
     
     
     
     

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 12:07:46 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: HEI Nightmare! -Reply 

     The centrifugal advance weights should be recurved to use with your 
     older car that expects more timing.  You can get a recurve kit at most 
     speed shops for a few bucks that fits all HEI distributors (when 
     installing it remember that Old's spin counterclockwise and it's a 99% 
     sure thing that the instructions show a clockwise spinning Ch*vy, so 
     reverse the weights).  The kit consists of different weights along 
     with a bushing to limit the total advance (if that's what you want) 
     and a few different strengths of springs.
     
     There are adjustable vacuum advance units out there.  I see them on 
     cars all the time, but I've never had to buy one so I can't name a 
     source.
     
     I've never tuned an HEI in an older (points) car, but I hear that they 
     like limited centrifugal advance and lots of vacuum advance.
     
     Tom L.


______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: Re: HEI Nightmare! -Reply
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    9/3/96 2:22 PM
     
- -- The advance weights move freely. 
- -- Timing is correct (unless we're doing it wrong).
- -- Shouldn't there be a little vertical play in the shaft?
- -- It doesn't seem that a bad coil would cause these symptoms... 
- -- Vacuum advance seems kinda logical to me.  How do you check to 
see that it's working?   It must have been working on my points
distributor...  And how do I fix a distributor with bad vacuum advance? 
Can you buy the vacuum mechanism separate?  Can I use the one off my 
old distributor?  

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 18:17:23 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: HEI Nightmare! 

>     Recheck the firing order of the wires.  I mixed up a couple of wires 
>     and got the same symptoms you mention. 

Yes! Yes! This is a _great_ idea to check. With a couple of wires
swapped it may still run fine, but once you rev it up and the advance
kicks in, the timing on one or two cylinders may then get so far out
that it misfires.

Re: Checking the vacuum advance: Connect a hand vacuum pump to the
vacuum advance diaphragm on the distributor and check to ensure that
it holds vacuum, and remove the cap to check that the breaker plate
rotates when vacuum is applied. Then measure with a tee fitting or
whatever to see that vacuum really does get applied by the engine
under the right conditions. (There may be vacuum switches in the line
to prevent vacuum advance until the engine is warmed up and/or the
trans is in high gear; check the lines carefully.)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 14:26:00 -0300
Subject: Re: engine swap

zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu wrote:
> 
> Something terrible has happened.  Some fool ran into me last night while
> doing about double the speed limit.  His car was totaled, my car not only
> drove away, but the driver's door (where he hit me) would open-- odd, it
> never would before.  He did however cause enough damadge to my poor
> 65,000 mile '74 Delta 88 that it would be too expensive for me to fix
> right now.  As I need a car bad, my only option is to put the motor &
> tranny into the motorless '84 cutlass which I have at home.  The car is
> an '84 Cutlass Supreme with buckets and center console shifter.
> Originally it had a 3.8l. in it, but was later changed to a 305 (not
> 307!), part of which is still sitting in the car.  I need to put a 350
> rocket 4bbl. and a 400 turbo tranny in it. 


I am very sorry to hear that the car is mortally wounded.  I am also 
pleased to hear that it gave it's life & you didn't.

It seems that the 350 might be okay, but the 400TH is probably a long 
shaft & won't go into that body.  There is surely some other problems 
w/rear end, cooling, motor mounts, etc of which others may give us 
clues.  Good luck w/the project.  We're happy that you aren't hurt.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: glenn connors <gpc442@buffnet.net>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 14:34:02 -0300
Subject: kick-down switch

    The other day I decided to put a kick-down switch on my '69
4-4-2.....something I overlooked when I built the motor.  Anyway I mounted
the switch on the carb throttle cable bracket, ran 12v to it and then ran a
wire down to the kick-down solenoid on the transmission...(TH400).  So, at
full throttle the switch actuates and supplies the 12v. to the single spade
electrical connection on the solenoid.  Rats...didn't work.  I got under the
car and am sure I have my voltage when the switch actuates.  Funny thing is
I was kind of expecting to hear a click or something when the voltage is
applied but I didn't.  I'm assuming here that the ground is supplied through
the tranny case since there is only one connection on the solenoid.  Does
anyone have any suggestions?  Can the solenoid be removed without opening up
the tranny?
    Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks
Glenn
'69 4-4-2

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 18:36:38 -0300
Subject: Re: kick-down switch 

>Funny thing is
>I was kind of expecting to hear a click or something when the voltage is
>applied but I didn't.

Not sure if you would, but you might want to use a test light or something
to verify that when the switch closes, you're actually delivering 12V down
there.

>I'm assuming here that the ground is supplied through
>the tranny case since there is only one connection on the solenoid.

Most likely, yes. If nothing else, you should have a ground connection
through the trans housing to the engine block, then up the negative
battery cable from there.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 20:52:13 -0300
Subject: HEI Fix 

Is is possible that you have the vaccum advance connected to a ported source
and not to a manifold vacuum source so that you're getting vacuum ( or not
getting vaccum) at the wrong point in the RPM range?
cf

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 20:54:08 -0300
Subject: HEI Nightmare 

Oh, had another idea, do you by any chance have a heavy 12V draw on the wire
you're using to power the HEI or have you left the ballast resistor in? These
could be affecting the amount of juice to the distributor. Also the syptoms
sound like mine when it had bad plug wires. 

Good luck these are great, great destributors when they work right.
cf

------------------------------

From: KEVIN HOOPINGARNER <khooping@bright.net>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 20:48:53 -0300
Subject: Re: HEI Nightmare! 

Blaine,


        I ran into a similar problem on a 70 442 when I replaced the
original distributor with an HEI.  My problem was related to the 12V supply
coming into the distributor.  The power wire for your old (point/condensor)
distributor is a resistor type which is needed for that ignition system.
If you did not replace it with a non-resistor type, you WILL have problems. 



                                        Best of Luck,

                                                Kevin Hoopingarner
                                                '70 W-30 

At 04:29 PM 9/3/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Two weeks ago, I acquired an HEI distributor out of '79 Cutlass 350. 
>Installing it has been a total nightmare!  What should have been a leisurely
>2 hour job has turned into a week and a half.  And it's still not right!  We
>finally got the distributor in the right way and it fired right up.  Ooh,
it idled
>a lot smoother than it used to.  I thought everything was perfect, till I
>went for a drive.  When I eased into the gas, the higher the RPM's, the
>worse it got.  At about 3000 RPM's, it sounded like a helicopter.  From
>stand-still, punching the gas used to smoke the tires through second
>gear.  Now it has less power than my 4 cylinder truck.  Top speed is
>now 65 MPH!  Speed and power have both been cut in half.  I replaced
>the wires with Accel 8mm wires and put in new plugs gapped at .060. 
>What the h*ll is the problem???  All I can think of is the plugs.  Should I
>reduce the gap?  I thought HEI was supposed to be better!  I'm so
>disgusted with it so far that I'm ready to switch back.  Any suggestions
>would be appreciated...
>
>Thanks,
>Blaine
>'72 Gutlass Supreme
>
>
>It came out easily.  I checked for side to side wobble in the shaft.  None
>of that, but it does move up and down about 1/4".  
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 20:55:36 -0300
Subject: RE: HEI Nightmare! -Reply 

At 05:49 PM 9/3/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>Oh yes = do you have a GOOD 12v source going to the distributor?
>
>I'll see if I can find a voltometer and double check the current...

You _did_ replace the stock resistor "+" wire with a non-resistor one,
didn't you? Or else, your HEI is only getting ~9volts on run, rather than
the full 12 volts it needs.

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Limited Landau Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 20:55:39 -0300
Subject: 1970 SX Hardtop for sale, Providence RI 

There's been a '70 Cutlass Supreme SX down the street from me that I've
noticed (since I've got a project one), and I just saw a "for sale" sign in
the window tonight.

It looks like it's all there; I called the number on the sign, but got the
father, who said his son is asking $2900 for it. Here are some
details/impressions:

On the plus side:
It runs and drives (always a good sign), as I see it gone from the house
every now and then. It is a deep gold/bronze color (apparently not stock),
and the bumpers are painted gold (no vinyl roof); oh yeah, the rear bumper
doesn't have the cutouts, so it's probably been changed. It has 14" SSIII
wheels (though one looks a bit narrower; perhaps a SSII?) with
nothing-special whitewalls on it.

On the minus side:
It really is a 25-foot car; any closer, and you notice...
* The paint is really weathered, and there are some bubbles in a patch on
the passenger door.
* One corner of the rear bumper is slightly bent, as though it backed into
something.
* It didn't have the side-moldings that my SX had, which I thought were
stock (perhaps he "dechromed" the car...).
* The rear window is darkly tinted (well, _I_ think this is a minus; gives
it a bit of a pimpmobile look).

I don't know about the mechanicals, though pops said it was stock (but
didn't seem too positive; said to check with the son).

My impression is that it is an extra/hobby car for this son, and that he's
grown up and feels it's time to get rid of it. If you are interested, the
phone # is (401)861-3887. If you are _really_ interested, I could give the
car a once-over and give you a pretty good honest estimation of its
condition (I don't know the seller, and don't expect a commission...). If
you are really interested in an SX, this could be of interest to you.

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Limited Landau Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 21:08:54 -0300
Subject: RE: HEI Nightmare! -Reply

Total advance ought to be between 32 and 36 degrees for most any 
non-emissions performance engine...far as I know most stock HEI's produce 
over 40...get an adjustable vacuum advance from Crane (comes with an 
advance limiter).  This kit also comes with springs to adjust the 
centrifugal advance.  I have not found it necessary to change the stock 
weights to the aftermarket weights the Mr. Gasket, etc. kits come with 
although maybe you might want to try it to see if it helps your 
particular combo.  It should work without problems with stock weights though.

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 22:40:05 -0300
Subject: Re: HEI Nightmare! -Reply 

In a message dated 96-09-03 17:11:42 EDT, you write:

<< '72 Gutlass Supreme (grr!) >>

Oh, I thought only GTOs did that :)

Paul
'72 Cutlass Supreme (prr!)

------------------------------

From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 21:19:00 -0300
Subject: FW: Halls Auto Salvage Article

The following article appeared in the August edition of the Archway 
Oldsmobile Monthly Newsletter.
Jeff Zeilmann is a member of the Archway Oldsmobile Club of St. Louis.  For 
information about the Archway Oldsmobile Club, or if you wish to send any 
comments, please contact him via E-mail: SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com

________________________________________

You may find Oldsmobile Heaven in Soldier Kansas

By Jeff Zeilmann   7/96

       If it wears a rocket, or says Oldsmobile on it, it+s probably 
represented at Hall+s.  Pack a lunch, grab some crackers and Cheez-Wiz,
and a cooler full of soda, (or "pop" as they call it in Kansas), and off we 
go to Hall+s Oldsmobile Salvage.  If you are like me, you seldom get to see 
a great variety of Oldsmobile classics all in one place.  Now granted, the 
automobiles Mr. Hall has in his collection are not the polished, spitshined 
autos that you see at car shows, AND mother earth is pushing up weeds and 
daisies around most of them, but you might never get to experience such a 
multitude of Oldsmobile history all in one location.  Be prepared to spend a 
day there.  His grounds are well over a hundred acres, and contain over 2500 
cars dating from the thirties to the eighties.

My first visit was out of convenience, and due to curiosity.  Having a close 
relative in Shawnee KS made it all too easy to cruise on over to Soldier.  I 
found out it was just shy of a two hour trip from Kansas City.  It wasn+t 
very tough to find.  You can take 70 all the way to Topeka, 75 North to 
Holton, make a left (West) on HWY 16 and go about 10 miles until you see a 
big black and white sign on the left for Halls Salvage.  Upon arriving, I 
stopped a moment to admire the huge Oldsmobile Service sign on the front of 
the building, then went inside where I met Rex, and Mr. Hall himself.  I was 
carrying a couple copies of packets of assorted Oldsmobile information that 
I had recently printed off the internet, and offered a copy to each of them, 
pointing out that they were in there.  "I didn+t know we were on the 
internet!"  Mr. Hall said surprised as he looked through it.    "What can we 
do for you today?"  He asked.  I rattled off a number of +68 and +69 Cutlass 
parts I was looking for, and he sent me off with Rex to stroll the yard. 
 First we walked through several rows of early sixties Cutlass+s and F-85s 
and then, at last, I feasted my eyes on two entire rows of +68 and +69 
Cutlass+s nearly as long as a football field.  Hoods, fenders, bumpers, 
grills, trim, and interior parts galore!  Oldsmobile Heaven!  I had never 
before seen so many +68 and +69 Cutlass+s in all my life.  Having been to 
nearly every salvage yard in the entire St. Louis Metropolitan area for the 
last 15 years and never seeing more than 2 or 3 at a time, I couldn+t 
believe my eyes.  Like a kid in a candy store, I strolled up and down the 
aisles completely amazed at what I was seeing.  A 442 with emblems still on 
it, 2 convertibles, a +68 with a full set of Super Stock II wheels, Vista 
Cruisers, Cutlass S, and Cutlass Supremes everywhere.  Two and a half hours 
later I hauled out a +68 tail light housing, a couple rocket sidemarkers, 
Cutlass script emblems, an armrest, and a few odds and ends, knowing I+d be 
back soon.

It didn+t take me long to find my way back.  A week to be exact.  This time 
I had gone over my +69 Cutlass convertible, and +68 Cutlass Supreme very 
carefully, and was more prepared for my next trek through the yard.  One of 
the greatest things about the yard is how well organized it is.  The cars 
are sorted by year and model.  It makes it much easier for one to find what 
you need and not have to search the entire place for any single part.  On my 
second trip, I stretched the convenience a bit by making it the tail end of 
my Fourth of July weekend vacation at Lake Pomme De Terre (about 2 hours 
south of KC).  Once again I visited my relative in KC and celebrated my 
birthday with a second trip to Halls on the 8th.  I really can+t imagine a 
better place to spend a birthday than right in the middle of all those 
Oldsmobiles!   Well this time, Mr. Hall remembered me, and sent me out with 
Charlie, who proceeded to help me locate the remaining parts I was in search 
of.  I found them all.  Three more armrests, four Super Stock II centercaps 
and chrome wheel slot insert sets, a lower front fender chrome item, and a 
few other assorted items.  This time, I ventured further in, to behold a 
couple other sections of the yard.  I strolled through the Toronado/Delta 88 
section, and from there I could also overlook the +30+s through +50+s 
section (which was like a whole junkyard in itself). Back in the office, I 
found my wife and kids waiting patiently for me with tea, and cookies that 
Mr. Hall was kind enough to provide them.  There he showed us a huge framed 
picture on the wall of a 1956 Olds that he used to have, that he restored, 
but only recently sold.  Also, he directed our attention to a huge aerial 
shot of the salvage yard taken a few years ago, and pointed out the various 
sections of Oldsmobiles, and how he had them categorized.  There were other 
interesting items hanging on the wall, such as several framed articles that 
have been published in various auto magazines on his salvage yard.  He then 
offered a small tour of the +68/+69 section of his warehouse, where I 
spotted a +69 Chassis manual that I couldn+t pass up.  Once again I left 
with all I had set out to find, and more.  Out of all the salvage yards I 
have dealt with in the many years of searching for parts, I have never 
before had a better experience than my two trips to Hall+s.  You can rest 
assured, I+ll be back.

My scorecard is as follows:
Organization		A+
Model assortment		A+
Hospitality		A+
Price			A

Hall+s AUTO Salvage
913-924-3748 or 913-924-3315 Fax 913-924-3389
     Yard Open Mon-Sat 8-5:00 * Closed Sunday
            200849  F  Road, Soldier KS 66540
NOTE: They also do mail orders.

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 23:01:58 -0300
Subject: Re: wheel covers 

In a message dated 96-09-02 23:12:58 EDT, you write:

<< PS:  I may be forced to put SSII's on my car afterall.
  >>

Maybe not!  Remember the words "Dealer Installed Options"!  SSIs may not have
been available as factory equipment, but surely they were available over the
parts counter for service replacement.  How do they know the original owner
didn't say "I'll take it if you throw in a set of those neat mag wheels they
had last year".  Now, for a nominal fee, I don't know anything about this
discussion.  Gold star now?

Paul

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 23:02:48 -0300
Subject: Header info on 78-87 Cutlass... 

This answer is a reply to Jason Labay, but I figured everybody with a G-body
could benefit from this:

On my 79 Cutlass, which can be seen on Byce's web page, I used Hedman
Headers, model number 58070.  They are a nice header, but do require some
work to install them.  I remove them every year to sandblast and paint them,
so I am getting pretty good at removing and installing them.  I do not want
to have them JET or HPC coated because eventually I would like to replace my
403 with a 455 I have (which will require different headers).

This would probably be good info for the FAQ (what to you think Dave?)

How to install headers on a 78-87 G-body (Cutlass):
The easiest side to install is the passenger.  I have found that if the oil
filter housing is removed, the header will slide right up into place as long
as the car is up on jack stands.  If you are installing the engine for the
first time and have pre-oiled it, you will probably want to set the header in
first and then the engine. This will save you the grief of removing the
housing and having oil drip everywhere.  Besides, it is more important to
keep the oil passages air free when firing up the engine for the first time.

The driver side is a little more tricky.  If the engine is allready in the
car, the header and starter will have to be installed at the same time.  I
usually hold the header in one hand and set the starter on the header and
carefully lift the two of them in place.  I then start the bolts for the
starter and then bolt the header in place.  The upper A-arm can sometimes
interfere if there is alot of shims in it, but this can be solved be removing
some of the material with a grinder.  (Tubular upper A-arms would solve this
but they are a bit pricey.)  If you only have a few shims, this shouldn't be
a problem at all. You can also set the header in the frame first if you want
but it is sometimes hard to keep the two headers out of the way while setting
the engine in.

Some tips:  If you have just painted the headers or had them coated, wrap
them tightly in an old sheet and use masking tape to keep the sheet on.  This
will prevent them from being scratched when installing them, especially the
driver side (when setting the starter on it).  After they are on, you can cut
the sheet off making sure you get all of it off.  

One thing to keep in mind is that these headers do not dump straight back.
 Both are pitched at different angles.  I used Torque Tech's 3" pipes and
they sell a special setup for this type of problem, but you must have access
to a welder.  It took me a while to put the exhaust on but it was worth the
time and effort.  Headers themselves are a major project but I definetly
think they are worth it.

One more thing to think about is the cross member.  For some unknown reason,
G-bodies used an offset cross member that only has a single hump.  A dual
hump one from a late 60's or early 70's GM (Cutlass, etc.) will work great if
you remove 1" from both sides.  It will have to set on the bottom of the
frame rails instead of the top but it will work just right for the where the
headers dump.  I used one from an '73 442 and it works great.  I have 3" all
the way back with no clearance problems at all.  If you want to retain the
original cross memeber, 2 1/2" pipes will fit under it on the driver side,
but they will be close. 

I hope this helps...  Please drop me a line if you need anymore info...
Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com

------------------------------

From: "Mark Bethke Jr." <mbethke@btigate.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 23:26:59 -0300
Subject: 1977 403 with Non-Windowed Webs

I have been doing lots of research on the 403. I am a new Olds fan. I
have been very happy with the stock performance of my 1977 Tornado with
it's 403 4 bbl.
   I keep hearing that the 403 has a weak bottom end putting a limit on
it's top end rpm's :(. I have heard that it has windowed webs. I also
have heard that in 1977 there were 403's with solid webs. I'am wondering
if any one knows the serial numbers that the better blocks had.
   Also I was wondering of any other number I should be looking for. I
know that the motor I have was dealer replaced. The original motor
saddly lost it's life when the temp light failed and the motor was a
total loss from the heat.

------------------------------

From: Katana72@aol.com
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 23:28:15 -0300
Subject: Re: HEI Nightmare! 

Sorry I can't copy the original about HEI, but here goes....
A friend of mine in Va. Beach installed an HEI in his Cutlass and it did
something very similar. I don't remember what value it was, but the balast
resistor had to be either changed, eliminated, or added. That's where the
problem might be. Give that a shot.
Katana 72                 It's NOT your Father's Olds          Hastings, MN

------------------------------

From: Katana72@aol.com
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 23:30:23 -0300
Subject: Re: engine swap 

I put a 73 Olds 350 Rocket with a TH350 tranny in a 81 Cutlas wagon.
Everything went pretty well, except dont forget to run a separate ground from
the battery to the body. Any questions, E-mail me.
Katana72 @ aol.com

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 18:32:48 -0300
Subject: Re: More Ignition, tips tears and tries

Dave Paulison wrote:
> 
> At 08:56 AM 9/3/96 -0300, you wrote:
> 
> >A good breaker booster is easy to construct. If you feel interested, send a
> note
> >for me, I send a detailed description (with pictures) of the unit.
> >**********************************************
> >* Esko Ilola                                 *
> >* Email esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi           *
> >* Oldsmobile 98  1964  4D HT                 *
> >**********************************************
> 
> Please send that info my way!
> 
> Thanks!
> --
> Dave Paulison         

Esko,

I'd be very interested in what you could show me.  I cannot have a large 
non'stock item like the HEI on my Olds', but I sure want to improve it 
on the sly.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Dan Williams <dr_olds@kfmw.net>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 17:04:07 -0300
Subject: Re: wheel covers

As far as I can tell the 68 cars did come with SSIs.  They show up in both the 
68 service manual and the 68 assembly manual.  The assembly manual lists them 
as 393822.  There is also #s for the screws, retainer and ornament assembly.  
I wold thik that this would prove the existence of the 68 SSI wheels.  Of 
course, these manuals were all made in 67, but I believe that they were 
offered for 68 cars also.  I can't explain why they do not show up in the 
options list for 68.  Maybe Olds wanted to push the 68 SSIIs?  

Also, there are SSIs (early style) that fit disc brakes.  I have personally 
seen them before and they are very hard to find.  They are made like the 
SSII/III wheel, with a longer raised section up front.  If you look at the top 
of the wheel you will notice that the wheel has a larger diameter at the front 
side compared to the rear. The eaisest way to see this is to compare a SSI 
wheel vs a SSII/III wheel and you will see the difference I am talking about.  
This longer diameter is needed to clear the caliper.  Of course, the later 
style SSIs have the longer raised section and will fit disc brake cars.  

I remember this same topic of SSI wheels for 68 cars and the disc brake stuff 
from the very earlier beginnings of this list.  Kinda nostalgic.

Lloyd Culp wrote:
> 
> Greg Beaulieu wrote:
> >
> > You know, something about checking on Brad's wheel cover question just
> > struck me...
> >
> > My favorite Olds wheel for this generation was the SSI. I have seen it on
> > '66 and '67 models and believe it was introduced in '66. I have also seen
> > it on '70 and '71 Cutlasses. But in looking thru my literature to answer
> > Brad's question I see no mention of a SSI for '68, just SSII. Is this
> > just an oversight or were they not offered that year?
> >
> >
> >
> > Greg Beaulieu
> 
> Greg,
> 
> My 1968 has them, but I don't know if they came on the 1968 car.  I
> added these & I believe them to be correct.  The problem w/them is that
> they don't fit around disc brakes.  when I put the disc brakes on mine I
> guess they have to go.
> 
> By the way, I have the original 2 piston discs of it, but have been
> advised to change to the newer type.  A problem w/this is that the 6"
> SSII's won't fit around the newer discs.  I like originality.  What are
> the minuses of going to the correct 2 piston brakes?
> 
> Bill Culp
> Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 18:48:49 -0300
Subject: Re: New Toro...Not

> 
> Mike,
> >
> >Do we have to cancel the Toro List because Todd is not buying a Toro?
> >
> >Bill Culp
> >Decatur, Alabama
> 
> Oh, that one hurts. :)
> 
> 
===============================================================================
> I was classified surfing again this morning(I'll never learn), and found 
this:
> 
> '70 442 rallye red w/black interior, Ram-Air, dual gate,
> spoiler, 48k miles. $6500.00
> 
> Assuming it has a solid frame/body and is mechanically sound, is this a
> reasonable price? I could handle another car as long as it's not a major
> project like the Toro woulda been, just have to find someplace to store it
> this winter. My '72 is at least 1-2 years from hitting the street, it would
> be nice to have one to drive in the meantime.
> 
> hmmm, maybe time to hit the boss up for a raise , eh?
> 
> Todd Hall
> (ducking the flames from the Toro guys)
> 

Todd,

I guess that the Toro List will survive.  You're always welcome to drop 
in anytime.

The price range is just there where you could be getting an expensive 
piece of junk or a nice driver deal.  Look carefully at the body & 
mechanicals.  It should be relatively rust free & not modified more than 
you want either mechanically or body wise.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #288
********************************
 
