To:	oldsmobile-digest @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET @ ABTLAB
Date:	08/16/96 10:58:17 PM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #269


oldsmobile-digest          Friday, 16 August 1996       Volume 01 : Number 269


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 15:05:56 -0300
Subject: Re: Toothbrush

David Morton wrote:
> 
> And by the way, Eggcrates _do_ rule.

Only in the hen-house.   ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 15:08:11 -0300
Subject: Re: Toothbrush

Doug Ahern wrote:
>
> BTW: whoever it is over in 'bama, I need my toothbrush back..

Can't.  Culp is using it for a resto tip.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 12:11:45 -0300
Subject: Re: Toothbrush

Does olds related include or exclude Saab? After all, the guy was trying to 
replace memories of his oldsmobile.

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 07:15:06 -0300
Subject: Re: 9/96 issue of Hot Rod mag

> 
> Lloyd Culp wrote:
> >
> > P.S.  When do you think they will do my town?
> 
> I think they're getting Sherman's great-grandson to do it.   :o
> 
> The 66 Toro and Mike
> 
> 

Mike:

This town was burned once by that bunch & it took 15 years for the 
bridge to be replaced.  We used a ferry to cross the TN River if you had 
money & cargo; you swum if you didn't have one or the other.  It's taken 
130 years to get over the last publicity, so I think we'll pass this 
time thank you.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Todd Hall <thall@en.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 12:22:40 -0300
Subject: Re: Shop Manuals 

At 02:02 PM 8/15/96 -0300, you wrote:
>I hear a lot of talk about shop manuals.  What exactly are these?  I've
>looked in all my catalogs, and they are really expensive ($60 - 80). 
>What's in them that makes them worth $60 - $80?  I'm assuming they
>cover a lot more than Chiltons =-).  But for $60, it should cover
>*everything*.  If it does, I'll splurge and get one...
>
>-Blaine
>'72 Cutlass Supreme
>
>P.S. - Where's the best place to get one for '72 Cutlass?  Does Fusicks
>have 'em?  I still haven't got my stinkin' catalog from them!
>

Blaine,

I agree, these manuals are a must and do cover *everything*. I got the
manual for my '72 from Lloyds Literature (1-800-buy a book) He's right here
in town and we just happended to have a mutual friend so I got the book
through my friend for $55, but when I first called him he quoted $80. I also
noticed that Year One now has reprints of these manuals and are selling them
for $43. 
While your at it might not be a bad idea to pick up the fisher body manual
as well. You should be able to get these for around $30.


J. Todd Hall                         
Cleveland, OH       
1972 4-4-2        

"If you ever drop your keys into a river of molten lava, let'em go, 
 because, man, they're gone." 
                                    

------------------------------

From: garnet.randolph@ei.educ.ab.ca (Garnet Randolph)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 12:26:33 -0300
Subject: '68 Oldsmobile Toronado 455/375hp

> Path:
news.ei.educ.ab.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!nntp.portal.ca!newsfeed.direct.ca!news
> From: ebishop@direct.ca (Eric Bishop)
> Newsgroups: alt.autos.antique
> Subject: '68 Oldsmobile Toronado 455/375hp
> Date: 14 Aug 1996 16:30:43 GMT
> Organization: Canada Internet Direct Customer
> Lines: 4
> Message-ID: <4usuvj$a4d@aphex.direct.ca>
> Reply-To: ebishop@direct.ca
> NNTP-Posting-Host: van-as-08a14.direct.ca
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII
> X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.7
> 
> Power windows/seat/antenna,etc
> Runs great,NOT a parts car,..some extra parts included.	$1000.00 firm.
> Call Mark @ (604) 530-4006 or E-mail ebishop@direct.ca

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 05:27:03 -0300
Subject: Re: more G-body tach help needed..... 

     I think the first step would be to attach another tach to the tach 
     lead as close to the existing tach as possible.  If it reads okay, 
     then it has to be something downstream--the tach or gauge cluster PCB. 
      If it doesn't read okay, then move it to the terminal on the coil.  
     If that works okay, then it's something in the wiring between those 
     two tested points.  If it still doesn't work there, then something is 
     wrong with the ignition system.  Perhaps the coil is bad, or (more 
     likely) you have a bad spark plug wire or two that is arcing to ground 
     or to another wire causing erroneous readings.
     
     Sorry, I don't have any idea what that oval tube-like object could be. 
      Are there clips on it to open it up and see?
     
     Tom L.


______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: more G-body tach help needed.....
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    8/15/96 9:19 PM


     Well I took the instrument cluster out of my 80 442 and cleaned all 
     the contacts. Now all the guages work beautiful with the exception of 
     the tach. When I start the car it hovers at 5,000 and when you give it 
     gas it buries past 6,000. Now when I put it in gear or change gears it 
     jumps down to 4,000 or so then right back up to 5,000. While the 
     cluster was out I took off the jumper, cleaned all contacts and put 
     the jumper clip back on very snug with a sheet metal screw. I made 
     sure it was on the 8cyl jumper. Now what do I do? The tach could be 
     bad? I know there is a wire on the firewall with a solid oval tube 
     like object(resistor?) that comes from the tach and 

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 12:38:54 -0300
Subject: Re: Toothbrush -Reply 

>this is not a gossip group...go elsewhere with your BS

Hey!  I *am* BS... and I don't belong to nobody!  =-)

- -BS

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 12:50:05 -0300
Subject: Re: Toothbrush -Reply 

My sentiments exactly.

>>> <mefco@sprynet.com> 08/16/96 05:58am >>>
There are some of us, myself included, that think the toothbrush E mails
are  entertaining. Besides, I see a lot of chatting going on and nobody
had  criticized them. I would rather read some amusement than read a
week of car  alarm messages. However, I guess the subscribers have a
right to chat about car  alarms if they please.
<cut> <paste>
I guess my reply is this is why God gave us a delete button. If I don't
want to  read it, I simply push delete.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: Todd Hall <thall@en.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 12:52:24 -0300
Subject: Re: And We're Off  Was: Toothbrush 

At 12:27 PM 8/16/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Art Fuller wrote:
>> 
>> There are some of us, myself included, that think the toothbrush E 
>> mails are entertaining. 
>
>And me.
>
>> I would rather read some amusement than read a week of car alarm 
>> messages.

As would I.....especially Mike's one-liners. 


>And BTW, it's not true that there is only one toothbrush in Alabama.  
>There's lots of toothbrushes there ... only one tooth.   ;)
>
>The 66 Toro and Mike

like this one ^ 
               
J. Todd Hall                         
Cleveland, OH       
1972 4-4-2        

"If you ever drop your keys into a river of molten lava, let'em go, 
 because, man, they're gone." 
                                    

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 13:18:19 -0300
Subject: My Resto Tip (was RE: Toothbrush) 

>> BTW: whoever it is over in 'bama, I need my toothbrush back..

>Can't.  Culp is using it for a resto tip.

>The 66 Toro and Mike

That reminds me...

There is some use for a toothbrush in maintainance/restoration...  Before
ripping out your old, dirty vinyl, inspect it closely.  If it's not cracked
and/or faded, try using an old, stiff-bristled toothbrush with ArmorAll (sp)
to scrub the dirt out of the grain.  This is especially useful on armrest
pads, as they tend to get discolored (due to elbow grease and dirt) after
years of use.  

Also use the same technique when prepping for shows to clean those
tiny hard to reach crevices -- like the ones at the edge of your vinyl
seats.  As we all know, it's amazing what those little things can do for
the overall appearance of your car.

- - Blaine
'72 Cutlass Supreme
[soon to be proud new owner of either a '69 Cutlass or '66 Toronado]

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 13:14:48 -0300
Subject: Re: Toothbrush

> yeah it was a funny joke, but its simply not appropriate at all.  It
> has nothing to do with whether or not someone has a sense of humor.
> And saying just delete it ain't enough.  Lets keep the posts
> olds related.  There is plenty of entertainment in that, many times
> its humorous.

I keep two old toothbrushes (or should I say Olds toothbrushes) in my toolbox 
in the trunk of my Olds, for cleaning Oldsmobile parts.  I hardly ever use 
them for brushing my teeth, unless I'm driving my Oldsmobile in Alabama.  
It's so hard to borrow one there!

Uh... is that better?

- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-5450    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: John Harris <John.Harris@rttc.redstone.army.mil>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 13:13:33 -0300
Subject: Transmission gear ratio

Folks

I was looking at Bowlings automotive calculator.  I wanted to see what
changing rear gears would do to my rpms at 60 mph.  However the program
requires the final gear ratio of the transmission.  Do any of you know
the final gear ratio of a Turbo-Hydramatic in a 1969 442?

John Harris
ALABAMA

BTW 
What does a tornado and a divorce have in commom in GA?

When one comes through someone is going to loose a house trailer.

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 13:34:15 -0300
Subject: Hey Toro owners... need advice 

There's a '66 Toro for sale here.  I haven't decided whether to go for it or
the '69 Cutlass Supreme.  I haven't looked at the Toro yet, so I was
hoping you guys could tell me what to look for.  

I talked to the owner yesterday and here's what I gleaned from him:

He's an older fellow, in his 60's.  He just had a back injury and he's
selling all his toys.  The car is black (not the original paint, maybe original
color) with red vinyl interior.  According to him, it has the original 425 and
it runs great.  He also says that all the chrome is in excellent shape.  It
has the original (?) chrome wheels.  It also has a Telescopic steering
wheel (huh?).  He also claims that it is completely rust/dent free, and
has never had a single dent.  It has been covered and garaged for the
past 8 years.  And everything is supossedly original.  He hasn't set a
price.  He's asking for best offer.  What would be the value of this car? 
If I offered him $1800, do you think he'd laugh in my face?  I think the
most he's been offered so far is "$500 now and ten monthly payments of
$100".  One guy offered him two horses.  He sounded rather disgusted
when he told me that...  Let me know what you think.  Thanks in
advance.

- -Blaine
'72 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 16:31:48 -0300
Subject: Re: My Resto Tip (was RE: Toothbrush)

BS wrote:
> 
> There is some use for a toothbrush in maintainance/restoration...  

Uh-oh!  More BS on toothbrushes...

> [soon to be proud new owner of either a '69 Cutlass or '66 
Toronado]                                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^
                                                            MY VOTE!
The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 16:36:34 -0300
Subject: Re: Toothbrush

mefco@sprynet.com wrote:
> 
> Does olds related include or exclude Saab? After all, the guy was 
> trying to replace memories of his oldsmobile.

I know if I lost my Olds, I'd Saab.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: DELPROPO@emuvax.emich.edu
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 13:41:12 -0300
Subject: RE: "70 442 W-30 Ram Air Parts 

Try Year ONe 800 950 9503

------------------------------

From: DELPROPO@emuvax.emich.edu
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 13:44:59 -0300
Subject: RE: '70 Force-air cleaner 

Yes All 4brl bases will work, I don't recomend buying the repro top I heard
they are junk and do not look correct. An orriginal will cost around 500 to 600
dollars.  

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu> (by way of ndg@traverse.com 
(Nielsen Design Group))
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 13:46:51 -0300
Subject: Parts Cars 

And now, presenting for your use and amusement, the Chris Witt Parts Car List!
This is forwarded from email Chris sent me.

- -Darren Shroeger

- --------
I have the following parts cars on hand, VIN is provided in case you want to
compare it to your car, or extract body style info from it.

> Color   Yr    Model   Mdl Spcl    Body    VIN
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Blue    62    Cs                  Conv    621M23445
> Blue    64    JStr-88             4dr     834M091796
> Blue    65    Dyn88               4dr     356695M140587
> Blue    66    Cs                  HC      338176M288554
> Red     66    Toro    Dlx         2dr     396876M510799
> White   66    Toro    Dlx         2dr     396876M507349
> Blue    67    98      LS          4dr     386697M214653
> Silver  67    Cs                  2dr     -GONE-
> Blue    67    Cs      Sup         HC      338177Mxxxxxx
> Blue    68    98      LS                  386698M320887
> Green   68    98      LS          4dr     386698M123770???
> ?       68    CS      S           Conv    33667M387130 ???
> Green   68    CS      S           HC      3368781137694
> White?  68    Cs      S           Conv
> Black   68    Toro                2dr     394878M615566
> Blue    68    VC                  wagon   ?????
> Gold    69    CS      S           HC      336879M336697
> Green   69    CS      S           HC      336879M127228
> Green   69    Cs      S           2dr     342879Z134453
> Brown   70    Toro                2dr     ????
> Green   71    Cs      S           4dr     3G69H2R120005
> green   71    Cs      S                   336871M141063
> Red     71    Cs                  HC      332871M1?8306
> Green   71    Delta88             4dr     -GONE-
> Red     72    442                 HC      3G87H2M204181
> Blue    72    Cs                  wagon   3G36H2M208198
> Beige   73    CSup                4dr     3J29K3M111859
> Blue?   73    Delta88 Royale      2dr     ???
> Brown   74    CSup                4dr     3J29H6M416526
> Blue    75    Cs                  2dr     3F37H5M293753
> Brown   75    D88     Royale              3N39K5M330928
> Beige   76    CSup                        3M57R6M125681
> Red     77    CS      S                   3G29F7M443771
> Blue    77    D88                         3N37L7MOD276162
> Blue/Bk 77    D88     Royale      4dr     3N69R7M144156
> Blue    78    D88                 4dr     35469OA0M232495
> White?  78    Hol-88  Holiday     2dr     ???
> Blue    79    Cs      Salon       ?       3G87AAM452302
> Brown   79    Cs Crusr            Wagon   1G3AH35F9BD450785
> Brown   79    Toro                2dr     1G3AZ57N2CE302499
> Green   79    Toro                2dr     OD1G3AZ57NXBE335359
> Brown   81    D88                         1G3AL69Y2BM323493
> Green   81    D88     Royale              1G3AN69N4BM327620
> Brown   77?   D88                 4dr     3N69K7M359110
> Blue    79?   Cs Crusr            Wagon   3H35H9R452898

Cs, CS = Cutlass, Cutlass Supreme
CSup = Cutlass Supreme
HC = Holiday Coupe, the 2 door w/o a post

If you need any of these parts, let me know. Bear in mind that with the
exception of the blue 67 CSup and the Green 68 98 LS, they are rusty Michigan
cars. Many still have engines or trans. Other Engines, etc. on hand also, for
rebuilding. 330 to 425/455. Send inquiries to:
- --
Chris  B. Witt
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing, MI 48911

517-882-9747 eves, or leave message.

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 13:41:30 -0300
Subject: RE: Gear recommendations for street driving 

At 10:14 AM 8/16/96 -0400, you wrote:
>> What I'd really like to hear are personal testimonies from people with gears
>> in the 3.23-3.73 range.
>
>I've got three cars that fall in this range (2 are non-Olds, but I think

Thanks for the reply; that's exactly the kind of personal testimony I needed.

>It depends what you want.  The Dart's 3.55 and high rpm hp's aren't 
>too practical for around town (35mph-45mph speed limits) because to
>enjoy it, I have to wind it out too much, I'm usually going too fast
>when I'm really enjoying it.  A 3.73:1 or a 3.90:1 would be better
>suited for this car for power, but it will kill all highway drivability.

Yeah, my motor is not a *real* high rpm motor; just more "normal" than the
low-low end torque curve of a stock 403.

>If you have a lot of power at lower rpm's, you may be happy with a 3.23
>to 3.55 gear and still maintain highway drivability, if you are all 
>high rpm, you need a 3.73:1 - 3.90:1 in order to get the rpms up high
>fast.   with a 3.90:1 and 245R60/15's you are turning 3500rpm at 60mph.

I think 3.55's would be about perfect for my motor, with 3.42's a great
second choice. This is also a real heavy car (C-bodies were always pretty up
there, but add in the sound deadener, the full-power accessories, the landau
top... to be honest, it's a whale), so I'll go with my first intuition on
the 3.42's.

Now, as far as the second part of my question, is anybody familar with the
interchangeability of mid- to late-70's 10-bolt carriers?

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 16:27:59 -0300
Subject: Re: 9/96 issue of Hot Rod mag

Bill Culp wrote:
> 
> It's taken 130 years to get over the last publicity,
> so I think we'll pass this time thank you.

OK, we'll send Sparky.  :o  :o  :o

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: DELPROPO@emuvax.emich.edu
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 13:50:26 -0300
Subject: Re: build sheet location help 

I am not sure but exery car used a build sheet. I found three in my 70 Cutlass
Supreme built in Lansing Mi. Two were under the front seat and another was
under the rear seat...

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 13:51:37 -0300
Subject: Re: Hey Toro owners... need advice 

At 12:34 PM 8/16/96 -0400, you wrote:
>There's a '66 Toro for sale here.  I haven't decided whether to go for it or

Toro, Toro, Toro... oh, sorry, there's more...

>the '69 Cutlass Supreme.  I haven't looked at the Toro yet, so I was
>hoping you guys could tell me what to look for.

OK, if it has an Olds emblem on it, and says Toronado anywhere on the car,
I'd buy it.

>I talked to the owner yesterday and here's what I gleaned from him:
>
>He's an older fellow, in his 60's.  He just had a back injury and he's
>selling all his toys.  The car is black (not the original paint, maybe 
original
>color) with red vinyl interior.  According to him, it has the original 425 and
>it runs great.  He also says that all the chrome is in excellent shape.  It

Beautiful color combination! And the chrome is in good shape? Tell you what,
DON'T BUY IT! In fact, give me the name and address of this creep, and I'll
tell him what he can do with that Toro... ;)

>has the original (?) chrome wheels.  It also has a Telescopic steering
>wheel (huh?).  

Yeah, chrome wheels are nice; not too many of them, in good shape.

Like on a 'vette; it not only goes up and down, but slides in and out so you
can position it anywhere you like in front of you (think of it as a 3D
adjustable wheel)

>He also claims that it is completely rust/dent free, and
>has never had a single dent.  It has been covered and garaged for the
>past 8 years.  And everything is supossedly original.  He hasn't set a

So you're looking at an original, rust free, black '66 Toronado in great
shape...

>price.  He's asking for best offer.  What would be the value of this car? 
>If I offered him $1800, do you think he'd laugh in my face?  I think the

Well, *I* would, if you made an offer for 1/4 the worth of my car. But he
might not. Go ahead, maybe he could use the laugh, or maybe he doesn't know
what it's worth (who knows what those painkillers are doing to his reasoning
processes...)

>most he's been offered so far is "$500 now and ten monthly payments of
>$100".  One guy offered him two horses.  He sounded rather disgusted
>when he told me that...  Let me know what you think.  Thanks in
>advance.
>-Blaine
>'72 Cutlass Supreme

Sounds like you can get quite a deal from him, but if the car is anywhere
near the condition you describe, and is mechanically sound (have someone who
knows what they are doing check the front end/suspension/tranny out
completely; redoing that could easily double your investment in this car),
then *I'd* feel guilty offering less than $2000 for that car. But then
again, I am a professor of ethics, so YMMV. And there are no rust-free cars
here anymore.

------------------------------

From: "David Morton" <dmorton@rci.rutgers.edu>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 13:55:11 -0300
Subject: Re: Hey Toro owners... need advice

I don't know. . The Old Car guide and so forth list prices for clean Toro's
as quite a bit higher than $1800, and I know that I had to pay _considerably_
more than that for mine (although I'm an impulse buyer and a poor 
haggler and a bit of a fool when it comes to cars), and mine ain't so great
condition-wise.  

It sounds like a pretty cool car to me.  Based on my short experience with 
the Toro, I'd definitely avoid one that needed a lot of front end work--
paying $200 for a wheel bearing isn't fun, and neither is paying a 
hundred bucks for a ball joint.  It would also be nice if all the 
goofy power accessories, ac., etc works (unlike my car).

BTW, the tilt/telescoping steering wheel is my personal favorite gadget.
Hours of fun trying to find just the right position.  Especially fun 
to adjust while driving. 

Dave

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 13:58:49 -0300
Subject: A GM Historical Moment... (Non-Olds)

WARNING:  The following post is not Oldsmobile-related, 'cept near the end.
          Those of you offended by the lower than level of Oldsmobileness
          in this post should stop reading NOW.

          Flames by those so offended shall be cheerfully ignored :)


As I was driving to work this morning (in Big Blue, not Big Red -- got a late
start, and I knew there'd be a lot more crazy Boston drivers on the road,
didna want to start the vacation with a big dent in the Cutlass), I passed
another Cadillac which seemed to be having trouble keeping up with the 70 mph
traffic.  Now, all the rear wheel drive 4 door Caddys look pretty much the 
same from 'bout 1977 to 1990 or so, and this one looked a lot like mine, 'cept
for the rust & dents, and it's lack of pep -- obviously didn't have the power
of a 307 Olds motor like mine :)

*Then* I saw the insignia on the side -- poor b*st*rd had the infamous
"V - 8/6/4" motivating his kahoona.  GM's other answer (besides the Olds
Diesel, of course) to fuel efficiency in the very early 80s.  Gawd, I hadn't
seen one in *years*.  Prolly one of the few (if not only) still on the road
in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.  No wonder he couldn't keep up with
traffic...

And on this day in history, there were many Oldsmobiles (as well as other
GM makes) stuck on the New York Thruway goin north in 1969.  I just found
out that my sister-in-law was one of those stuck there, in her flower decal-
festooned Karmann Ghia, *tickets in hand*.  She turned back because of the
traffic, went home, and threw away the tickets to Woodstock, thinking them
worthless.


Tim (Whose Olds and Caddy Each Have 8 Cylinders, and Uses Them All ) Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'88 Cadillac Brougham, a.k.a. 'Big Blue' -- Olds 307 Powered!!
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 14:04:24 -0300
Subject: Re: 9/96 issue of Hot Rod mag

> Bill Culp wrote:
> > 
> > It's taken 130 years to get over the last publicity,
> > so I think we'll pass this time thank you.
> 
> OK, we'll send Sparky.  :o  :o  :o
> 

When I was a kid, we lived in Huntsville, AL for a few years (my Dad worked
on the Apollo project), just a few miles from Decatur.  I remember starting
school, and listening to the teachers talk about "The War of Northern
Aggression".  For weeks, I didn't have a clue what they were talking about,
and I figured I must've been sick when they were talking about it in school
back up north.  Then it clicked.

"Oh, you're talking about the *Civil War*!"

Man, the dirty looks I got from teachers & students alike!  :)



Tim (Who Remembers Jonathan Frakes Played a Confederate Soldier Before
He Became William T. Riker) Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'88 Cadillac Brougham, a.k.a. 'Big Blue' -- Olds 307 Powered!!
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 15:09:51 -0300
Subject: Re: Transmission gear ratio 

Do any of you know the final gear ratio of a Turbo-Hydramatic in a 1969 
442?

          All TH350 and TH400 (and Muncies, for that matter) have a 
          1:1 final gear ratio.
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 14:19:42 -0300
Subject: Re: My Resto Tip (was RE: Toothbrush) -Reply 

> [soon to be proud new owner of either a '69 Cutlass or '66 Toronado]   
                                                      ^^^^^^^^^^^
                                                            MY VOTE!
The 66 Toro and Mike

What?  You're the owner of a '66 Toro, and you vote for the Cutlass? 
Traitor!  ;-)  (I'm assuming you underlined the Toro, but on my computer it
shows up under the Cutlass)

- -BS

------------------------------

From: Joanne Beausoleil <jbeausol@ftp.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 14:51:07 -0300
Subject: RE: Toothbrush -Reply

Well, to keep it car related, I guess I could brag about how well my car =
is running. It looks good, sounds good, rides like a cadillac, (heh-heh) =
and has cost me nothing but gas money for the past 2 months.... =
na-na-nananaaaaa.

- ----------
From: 	Blaine Sanders 5483[SMTP:BLAINES@strata3d.com]
Sent: 	Friday, August 16, 1996 11:38 AM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Re: Toothbrush -Reply

>this is not a gossip group...go elsewhere with your BS

Hey!  I *am* BS... and I don't belong to nobody!  =3D-)

- -BS

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 18:04:29 -0300
Subject: Re: Hey Toro owners... need advice

Blaine Sanders 5483 wrote:
> 
> The car is black (not the original paint, maybe original color) 

Dunno.

> According to him, it has the original 425 and it runs great.

Excellent.

> He also says that all the chrome is in excellent shape.

Even more excellent.

> It has the original (?) chrome wheels.

An option.  And a hard one to find if you don't have them.

> It also has a Telescopic steering wheel (huh?).

Yup.  My first one did.  Turn the horn button to loosen/tighten.  Cool!

> He also claims that it is completely rust/dent free, and has never had 
> a single dent.  

WAY COOL!

> It has been covered and garaged for the past 8 years.

WAY, WAY COOL!

> If I offered him $1800, do you think he'd laugh in my face?

All he can do is say no.  

Check the CV boots.  If their torn, the joints may be dry and worn.  
Listen for clicks in the front end when turning.  It indicates the CV 
joints are worn.  Doesn't mean don't buy it (it's a bit expensive to fix) 
but it goes into the formula.

Check the rear suspension and trunk floor for rust.  "Rear springs 
through the trunk" is not an uncommon problem.

Oh, expect the Qjet to leak!

If the cars is a good as he says and the guy will take $1800, me thinks 
you will be a very happy man.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 18:11:58 -0300
Subject: Re: My Resto Tip (was RE: Toothbrush) -Reply

Blaine Sanders 5483 wrote:
> 
> (I'm assuming you underlined the Toro, but on my computer it
> shows up under the Cutlass)

Use a fixed-width font.  Only eggcraters use proportional fonts.   ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: eda@dl.tc.faa.gov
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 15:19:49 -0300
Subject: Re: Re: build sheet location help 

> My '77 Delta's was hanging on the driver's door pull behind the door panel.

Found one for my '77 Cutlass Supreme (actually, found what remained
of one :(  under the driver's seat; tore the interior out of a '76
Supreme, built in Atlanta, I think, behind either the rear-seat,
passenger-side armrest ormaybe the panel just above that & below the
opera window...was there any rhyme or reason to where they put those
damn things?  Haven't found one on my '84 yet, though if it was on
top of the gas tank, it's likely toast now...

Ed Atlee			'77 Cutlass Supreme
eda@dl.tc.faa.gov		'84 Hurst/Olds
	R O C K E T	P O W E R E D ! !

------------------------------

From: JJF97@uno.cc.geneseo.edu
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 16:22:24 -0300
Subject: Resto  Tips  ..... (and chrome for dash trim)

for the chrome on the dash....

Press & Peel Foil    by Plaid
it is initially for fabric / clothes for artistic creations...
but it is useful for the chrome trim on the dash.....

detailed instructions is with the foil and you can get it in a fabric / crafts
store.  good luck with the chrome!

(Plaid Enterprises, Inc.,  Norcross, GA 30091-7600)

Resto Corner

- --joe ferrero

------------------------------

From: JJF97@uno.cc.geneseo.edu
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 16:30:23 -0300
Subject: Resto  Tips  .....

This tip came from Scot Swanson....

To check the bolt pattern in the head against the new headers, place aluminum
foil over the exhaust ports then feel through the foil for the exhaust ports
then feel through the foil for the bolt holes.  this leaves a dimple in the
foil.  Remove the foil, and there's your bolt pattern!


Thanks Scot for this tip!  this does save a lot of struggle when trying to
match up bolt patterns!!!

This is one of many uses for aluminum foil, I sure!!!



Contest up-date.....

We have had many enteries so far....   and all are excellent tips!
Keep them coming!!  Remember, the more tips you have in, the more chances you
have to win!!!  Good Luck!

Resto Corner

- --joe ferrero

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 15:33:21 -0300 
Subject: Re: Req: Gear recommendations for street driving

From: Todd Morris <tmorris@bt1dc18e.bet.ibm.com>

>Sure, "catching rubber" means you get excess tire spin.  It happens when you
dump the
>clutch when RPMs are kinda high.  AKA burning rubber.  Pretty easy to do off
the line in
>first gear, a little harder going from first to second, a fundamental test
of muscle car
>status when going from second to third, and very impressive if done from
third to fourth.
>In fact, anybody done it third to fourth?  That would imply a wonderfully
brutish setup.

  I've spun 'em on the 2nd-3rd shift with the crummy bias ply tires that came
with
my car (455, M-21, 3.42 posi).  Now that I have real tires (255R15 BFG's) I
havent
hit 2nd-3rd  -  yet...

  However, handling is much improved.  I'm back to pushing the power in
cornering, since
the grip is so good.  With the old tires I almost wound up in the ditch a
couple of times
when both tires let go and the posi kicked in.

- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

1970 442  4-Speed

------------------------------

From: Michael Blennerhassett <blenner@fhs.csu.McMaster.CA>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 15:29:28 -0300
Subject: Re: My Resto Tip (was RE: Toothbrush) -Reply

This is a humorless situation.  I do not have a running Toro.  I am 
miserable.  And you guys make jokes.  Get rid of that sense of humour.

And buy that Toro fast.  If the front end is OK  - do it.  Really good 
point about the wheel bearings/tie rod ends/ball joints:  I for one 
know that these cost money! and they are the first thing to check; that 
is, right after the boots on the cv joints - now there's expensive!

 

Michael w/o the Toro just now.

**********

On Fri, 16 Aug 1996, Blaine Sanders 5483 wrote:

> > [soon to be proud new owner of either a '69 Cutlass or '66 Toronado]   
>                                                       ^^^^^^^^^^^
>                                                             MY VOTE!
> The 66 Toro and Mike
> 
> What?  You're the owner of a '66 Toro, and you vote for the Cutlass? 
> Traitor!  ;-)  (I'm assuming you underlined the Toro, but on my computer it
> shows up under the Cutlass)
> 
> -BS
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 14:32:06 -0300
Subject: September Chicago-area Auction 

A blurb from Jim Mateja's auto column in today's Chicago Tribune:

[quote]
[...] mark your calendar for the weekend of September 28-29 when the
annual Volo Antique Auto Museum Fall Auction will be held in that
community west of Grayslake. [...]

Greg Grams, who owns the museum along with brother Bill, said that on
Sept. 29, plans are being made to auction vehicles valued at less than
$10,000. [...] For details, call the museum at (815) 385-8408.
[end quote]

I've been there -- it's a great place to visit, and they also have a
couple of big buildings packed with antique stuff (i.e. regular antique
stuff, not auto-related) for sale. You can easily spend a day there.
As for Oldsmobiles, they're all over the place, and all for sale (on
consignment from their owners) every day, not just on auction day.

If I remember right, they're near the intersection of Routes 12 and 120
in Volo, northwest of Chicago.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 15:38:28 -0300 
Subject: Re: Paint codes

From: WMACHINES@aol.com

>19   19  is upper and Lower colors.  The only way to determine color of
>stripe is by the build sheet.  My 72 build sheet read
>LW   UP   ST   W
>63     63    62   63   deciphered as lower saddle bronze

>and upper as saddle bronze     st = strip as saddle tan   w =? saddle bronze
>I haven't figured out what the w is yet.

Maybe W is for the top color? (convertible top or vinyl hardtop).  Or maybe
the interior.

- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

1970 442  4-Speed

------------------------------

From: JJF97@uno.cc.geneseo.edu
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 17:00:22 -0300
Subject: Oldsmobile Related!!!

hey, i'm a single 22 yr. old guy, looking for a nice, intelligent, attractive
female (about the same age) that either owns or knows someone who owns an
oldsmobile.  have her e-mail me sometime.  my address is in the header of
this message.  Thanks.

- --joe ferrero  (the resto guy)

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 16:02:30 -0300
Subject: Fans and Cooling 

Mike Frederick Wrote:

>No doubt, Bob, but this seems like an airflow problem to begin with.  

>Let's think about this.  How fast does the fan push air?  30mph?  50mph? 
>No matter how fast, at some point the air-speed from the car's forward 
>motion has to exceed the air-speed of the fan.  And at that point, the 
>fan would no longer be aiding the flow of air but restricting it.  If the 
>only way to keep the motor cool is by constantly running the fan than 
>this indicates that airflow through the grill to the radiator is poor.

>So if a non-clutch fan's what you gotta do, then that's what you gotta 
>do.  But if your concern is cooling AND horsepower, I'd be looking at 
>ways to get better airflow into the front end.

>The 66 Toro (with airflow so poor Olds made bigger holes the next year) 
>           ...and Mike


>- -- 
>Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
>     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
>     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

>     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
>     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

I was very surprised that highway speeds did not bring the temp down when the
small fan was installed.  I also have that "custom" hood with a rear facing
hood scoop.  I can attest by the heat that enters the car if I open the cowl
vent that it definitely releases some heat out of that opening.  The '67
still ran hot (and always has by the way). 

Is there a speed/condition where the air coming from the radiator has to
"fight" to get out of the engine compartment?  It's the only answer I could
up with.  Similar to your point I beleive.  Increasing inlet can only be
effective if the outlet can cooperate.

Variation of GIGO would be AIAO = Air In =  Air Out  :-)

Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL
U.S. FDA Regulatory Affairs   (407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: eda@dl.tc.faa.gov
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 16:01:50 -0300
Subject: Re: FAQ Info Request - Small Block Info 

> There is also a chart for engine block color:

If I recall correctly, from the old days when 73-77 Cutlasses (Cutlassi?)
were cheap & plentiful here in South Jersey, and I had a couple and my
buddy had, oh, 15 or so over the span of a few years...

CID	Year	Paint Color

350	73-75	Gold
350	76-77	Blue

Think all of the late-model 307's were black, no?

Ed Atlee			'77 Cutlass Supreme, 350R/THM350
eda@dl.tc.faa.gov		'84 Hurst/Olds, 307(9)/200-4R, 3.73 posi
		R O C K E T	P O W E R E D ! !

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 16:02:24 -0300
Subject: Atlanta Meet 

>>From: mefco@sprynet.com
>>Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 15:08:10 -0300
>>Subject: Re: HEIs, Hardened Seats, Etc.

>>Bob,
>>I don't have a comment on HEI's, but I do have a comment on that slightly 
>>modified yellow 66 you brought to Atlanta. Is the hood factory? Did all 66
w30's 
>>sound like that? Nice car Bob.

>>Art Fuller

Thanks Art!

It's a '67 I've owned since new.  The guy parked next to me, also a '67 has
owned his since new as well.  He bought his a bout a month after me.  I am
not alone in my stubborness and refusal to sell a fun car!

The original hood (with the louvers) is safely stored in my garage.  What you
saw is a junk yard Cutlass hood with a reversed Mo*ar "six pack" hood scoop
glassed in place.  It's still a six pack but that now refers to the six
AutoMeter gauges which are installed within the scoop and are visible while
driving.   When I decided to restify the car, that original '67 W-30 air
cleaner looked too good to not use.  But the Torker manifold raised it too
high and the hood wouldn't close without damaging something.  I found that if
I removed the bracing, the hood would now close but the sheet metal had no
support, you know, it flopped around a bit. :-)

The six pack scoop was the widest one available. The gauges really top if off
and get a lot of comments.

All Olds muscle cars sound great, even with stock mufflers and chambered
pipes.  What I currently use includes Hooker headers, 3" pipes all the way
through 3" 
3-chamber FlowMasters.  It sure does rumble nice doesn't it?

Those considering FlowMaster mufflers, be aware that the two chamber versions
are much louder than the three chamber versions.  I was advised by the fellow
who sold me mine that two chambers are too loud for street use.  I have to
agree. What I like about the 3 chamber type is that they "rumble".  That's
much nicer to me than the "crack" of mufflers that only serve the purpose of
placing something in the pipes.  They sound like almost no muffler at all.
 Not very pleasing on the street.  The 3-chamber is _barely_ streetable.  Can
you spell "headache"? :-))

So far, the drag times for open headers vs through the 3"/FlowMaster system
are almost the same!  Sounds good and still runs too.

Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL
U.S. FDA Regulatory Affairs   (407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: Paul Bartlett <bartletp@osshe.edu>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 16:01:46 -0300
Subject: Re: Hey Toro owners... need advice

> Blaine wrote

> There's a '66 Toro for sale here.  I haven't decided whether to go for it or
> the '69 Cutlass Supreme...

I'd be drawn to the '66 Toro.  I bought a '66 Toro a few months ago. 
It's a beautiful car -- rather unique.  I could imagine what a hit it
was in 1966.  

I drive the car most every day, but then work is only 3 miles away.  -- So
the 12-13 mpg on super is still affordable.  Even with the front drive
system, the mechanical elements of the car seem pretty straightforward. 
If anything goes wrong, one can quickly figure our what needs to be
repaired.  Yes, I would expect that some of the mechanical parts unique
to the Toronado maybe somewhat expensive to replace. 

The car is actually quite large.  The front bumper is far further forward
than one thinks.  Be careful with the front fender when backing out of
parallel parking spots!  It's also wide.  I parked beside a Honda Accord
the other day.  What an odd sight.  The Honda Accord was not only shorter and
narrower than the Toronado, but also higher.  The roof of the Toronado is
actually lower than the roof of the Honda Accord.

The Toronado is well made.  Everything in the interior, except the
driver's floor mat (which is permanently attached) looks very nice and
shows nice good workmanship.  The driver's seat seems to have little
padding -- you begin to wonder if they used plywood instead of seat
springs.  The doors are heavy and would hurt if they trapped your ankle.

The car drives well.  The accelerator is very responsive, with lots of
exhaust note.  The barrel speedometer goes quickly to 90 before you
realize it.  It has plenty of power.  It will go fast off the mark, but
it's not a light car by any means.  

When you see the car, include the following in your list of things to
look for:

Exhaust system.  They tend to rust and appear to be expensive to replace.
 You may find that the resonators and original chrome tips have been
replaced by straight pipes.  Also, the muffler could have holes in it.

Suspension and axle boots.  See if the service records indicate
whether or not the front axle boots have been replaced.

Rust in the fender wells by the trunk.

I am far from an expert, but I would for those things.  One friend
suggested that I not buy the Toronado as my only car.  That seems
like good advice, until I get all the bugs worked out of mine (engine
leaks, exhaust manifold leak, weak brakes, etc.)

- -- 
Paul Bartlett

Phone (503) 737-0510
E-mail bartletp@osshe.edu

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 16:02:35 -0300
Subject: Fans 

>So does my built 455 with a $30 flex fan and junk yard fan shroud (about
$100
>nos/repro).  Radiator is a stock version 4-core. The flex fan reduces hp
drag
>as engine speed increases by "flexing" to a lower angle.  

>I tend to shy away from flex fans.  Both my dad and I had one lose a blade
>while driving a car.  Not a pleasant experience.  Big hole in radiator and
>nice dent from the underside of the hood.  Not to mention the off-balance
>fan!  FWIW...
- - --
>Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
>dpauliso@metrolink.net


_Definitely_ a bummer Dave.  The one I'm using is quite old (15+ years) and I
have buzzed my engine to 7,000 rpm (but not again!)  No failures and I check
it periodically.

The most recent one I purchased has a label and warning that it is not
intended to be used on engines operating for long periods in excess of 4,000
rpm. This new one looks to be manufactured some what differently as well. I
don't drive anything at 4,000 rpm except when racing.

In any case your point is well taken.  

Flex fans used to be avialable in fiberglass.  Anyone know if they are still
out there?  Very light and "flexed" just fine thank you.  I had one on a race
car once when the harmonic balancer blew in the traps.  Definitely could ruin
your day!  Fortunately the only damage was the fiberglass fan and the lower
flex type radiator hose; it had a dent in it, but no leaks!  I was really
lucky on that one.

It was interesting to run through the traps @ 115+ mph with all this green
stuff coming up between the hood and cowl in front of the windshield. :-0

Oh, there was a pretty good "bang!" as well.  Back in the pits I couldn't
figure out why the fan had exploded until I saw this little nub spinning on
the crank snout.  This was a short stroke 425 BB.  The early balancers were
quite thin.  The later models are much thicker and hopefully safer.

I have to agree with NHRA that for machines 10.99 and faster should use an
aftermarket balancer that is less prone to failure.


Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL
U.S. FDA Regulatory Affairs   (407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 16:02:36 -0300
Subject: Harmonic balancers 

The "exploding harmonic balancer story" reminded me of something I have been
seeking some advice on.

The newer high performance harmonic balancers, such as the Fluidamper and
Rattler models, adjust themselves throughout the rpm range.  In addition to
being safer (less prone to fall apart) they provide dynamic balancing of the
engine at all times.

Olds engines are externally balanced.  Do these new somewhat expensive
devices mean that balancing of a modified engine is unnecessary?  

Couldn't you build an engine where you bring all the pieces (rod ends,
pistons, etc.) to the same weight (relatively simple to perform yourself with
a relatively cheap scale) but pass on the spin balancing of the reciprocating
assembly (needing expensive equipment and a shop.)

The expense of such a balancer could easily pay for it self over time.

Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL
U.S. FDA Regulatory Affairs   (407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: "AUVAX7::RILES" <RILES%AUVAX7.decnet@auscam.amd.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 16:03:00 -0300
Subject: RE: September Chicago-area Auction

Cool...I passed just a mile from this museum last month on a vacation to 
Antioch.  
Wish I'd had time to stop.

- -Robert
'71 Cutlass Convertible
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
>A blurb from Jim Mateja's auto column in today's Chicago Tribune:
>
>[quote]
>[...] mark your calendar for the weekend of September 28-29 when the
>annual Volo Antique Auto Museum Fall Auction will be held in that
>community west of Grayslake. [...]

>Greg Grams, who owns the museum along with brother Bill, said that on
>Sept. 29, plans are being made to auction vehicles valued at less than
>$10,000. [...] For details, call the museum at (815) 385-8408.
>[end quote]

>I've been there -- it's a great place to visit, and they also have a
>couple of big buildings packed with antique stuff (i.e. regular antique
>stuff, not auto-related) for sale. You can easily spend a day there.
>As for Oldsmobiles, they're all over the place, and all for sale (on
>consignment from their owners) every day, not just on auction day.

>If I remember right, they're near the intersection of Routes 12 and 120
>in Volo, northwest of Chicago.

>Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
>Datalogics, Inc.
>441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
>Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 11:08:39 -0300
Subject: Re: FAQ Info Request - Small Block Info

David Brown wrote:
> 
> Ok, so no one has responded to my request for info for the FAQ.  It's the
> Nationals, I hope!  Anyways, let me go through each area of need, and let
> me know what info I currently have.
> 
> 
>     
>                FAQ version 2.0 due soon!David:

I ahve the Motor's Repair Manual covering the years 1935-1950 & the 1965 
manual covering the years 1958-1965.  Would it be best if I sent you 
Zerox copies of the Oldsmobile chapters or to try to glean parts from 
these sections?  

The 1935-1950 manual includes:
	BODY air conditioning
	     body service
	     power top & window lift
	     windshield wipers
	BRAKES 
	CLUTCH 
	COOLING SYSTEM
	ELECTRIC SYSTEM
	ENGINE
	ENGINE OILING
	FRONT SUSPENSION
	FUEL SYSTEM
	GEARSHIFT
	HYDRAMATIC DRIVE
	REAR AXLE
	SHOCK ABSORBERS
	SPECIFICATIONS brake
		       capacity chart
		       carburetor
                       distributor
]		       engine bearings
		       front end measurements
		       generator
		       generator regulator
		       lubrication chart
		       major specifications
		       piston & ring clearances
		       rear axle
		       starting motor
		       tune up chart
		       valve data
	SPRINGS
	STEERING GEAR
	TRANSMISSION
	TUNE UP
	UNIVERSALS

The 1965 manual includes:
	ACCESSORIES  air conditrioning
		     clock troubles
		     instrument cluster removal
		     power top, seat, & window trouble
		     radio replace
		     turn signal troubles
		     w/s wiper
		     w/s wiper troubles	
	BRAKES
	CLUTCH
	COOLING SYSTEM
	ELECTRICAL
	ENGINE
	ENGINE OILING
	FRONT SUSPENSION
	FUEL SYSTEM
	PROP. SHAFT & U-JOINTS
	REAR AXLE
	SPECIFICATIONS
	STEERING GEAR
	TRANSMISSION, MANUAL
	TRANSMISSIONS, AUTOMATIC
	TUNE UP SERVICE 

There are, of course many diagrams.  What would be the best way to send 
these & to use them?

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 08:51:01 -0300
Subject: Block color Was:FAQ Info Request - Small Block Info

At 10:15 PM 8/15/96 -0300, you wrote:
>On Thu, 15 Aug 1996, Dave Paulison wrote:
>> The original SB 350 in my 69 has ID/Code 2, casting number is 385558.
>> Bronze in color. 
>
>Sorry, if it's original, it's supposed to be gold.

Well, it is original.  I just always thought it was bronze.  Now I know better!

- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: eda@dl.tc.faa.gov
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 16:24:13 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds in Movies; And We\'re Off  Was: Toothbrush 

Has someone stepped forward to do the movie list/FAQ section?
The recent gunfighter-type movie with Antonio Banderas, towards the
end a white '76 or '77 Cutlass was first riddled with bullets, then
torched/blown up/basically destroyed...farewell, my friend, you
deserved much better... :-(

Also, I remember a movie a while back, maybe made-for-TV, maybe not, 
in which the bad guy cruises in a dark grey/black (primer, I *think*
'76 or '77 Cutlass Supreme, possibly w/ tinted windows - anyone
remember this?

Then there was "The Dark Half", "Navy Seals", Bev. Hills Cop, what
else came up so far?

Mike, you are now the official, "And They're Off" announcer, maybe
you can start a club with the "Let's Get Ready to Rumble" guy! :)

Be ever-vigilant, and I just want to say, "Good luck; we're all
counting on you."

Ed Atlee			'77 Cutlass Supreme, 350R/THM350
eda@dl.tc.faa.gov		'84 Hurst/Olds, 307(9)/200-4R, 3.73 posi
		R O C K E T	P O W E R E D ! !


P.S. I just wanted to say, "Good luck; we're all counting on you." :)

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 19:41:54 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds in Movies; And We\'re Off  Was: Toothbrush

eda@dl.tc.faa.gov wrote:
> 
> Mike, you are now the official, "And They're Off" announcer, maybe
> you can start a club with the "Let's Get Ready to Rumble" guy! :)

:o

> I just wanted to say, "Good luck; we're all counting on you." :)

And stop calling me Shirley!

Did that say FAA?  No wonder the "Airplane" reference.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 11:39:32 -0300
Subject: Motor Manual for 1965

1935-1950 & 1958-1965 Fans:

I have some information from a 1950 & 1965 Motor Manual that I hope that 
can be reviewed for correctness.  Please critique this material in any 
way necessary before more formal publication:

Oldsmobile . Olds F-85

Serial Number Location:  1935-40 On frame left side rail under hood.
		         1941-48 On upper left front face of dash.
		         1949-50 On body left front door pillar. 
		         1958-1965 On left front door pillar.

Engine Number Location: 1935-48 & 1949-50 Six On upper left corner of 
		        cylinder block.

		        1949-50 Eight On left hand bank of cylinder 	
            	        block.
		
		        1958-64 V8-371, 394: Top of center exhaust port 
		        of left cylinder head.

		        1961-63 V8-215: On right of front cylinder head. 
 		        Turbo engines have a "T" prefix.

		        1964-65 V6-225: Instead of conventional engine 	
		        number, a date code is used.  It is located on 	
		        right cylinder block deck face, and consists of 
		        two letters and three numbers:  The first letter 
		        indicates the model year ("K" for 1964), the 	
	        	second letter shows engine usage ("H") for 	
	        	standard transmission) and the three numbers 	
	       		indicate when the unit was built or when an 
	
		        engineering change was made.

		        1964-65 V8-330-425;  Stamped on a machined pad 	
		        at the front of right cylinder pad.  

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 16:47:37 -0300
Subject: Re: build sheet location help 

At 01:50 PM 8/16/96 -0300, you wrote:
>I am not sure but exery car used a build sheet. I found three in my 70 Cutlass
>Supreme built in Lansing Mi. Two were under the front seat and another was
>under the rear seat...


Were they all identical?


Dan


************************************************
Daniel A. Gulino
Associate Professor and Graduate Chairman
Department of Chemical Engineering
Ohio University
Athens, Ohio  45701-2979
(614) 593-1495
(614) 593-0873 (fax)
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://www.ent.ohiou.edu/che/faculty/gulino.html
************************************************

------------------------------

From: John Harris <John.Harris@rttc.redstone.army.mil>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 16:39:04 -0300
Subject: Flow Master Mufflers

Folks

I want your opinions on Flow Masters.  One guy already said that he
thought 2 chamber Flow Masters were too loud for street use.  

I have a 69 442 with 2.25 inch exhaust pipes.  I was thinking of using 2
chamber Flow Masters.  What do the rest of you think?  I will not drive
this car much, just on weekends etc..

John Harris

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 11:43:37 -0300
Subject: Re: Toothbrush

> Doug Ahern wrote:
> >
> > BTW: whoever it is over in 'bama, I need my toothbrush back..
> 
> Can't.  Culp is using it for a resto tip.
> 
> The 66 Toro and Mike
> 
> 

Mike:

I'll be a little while with that "Resto Tip" as I saved it on the hard 
drive & can't seem to get it back.  I guess that I'll always be computer 
illiterate.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 17:56:34 -0300
Subject: FAQ Info Request - acknowledgments 

Thanks Joe Ferrero!  Codes that identify the head, block, intake, exhaust 
manifold.  If the engine was apart, any codes to identify the crank, rods, 
pistons.  I'll use the Kanter catalog as a start for the CID and year 
combos.

Thanks Bob Handren!  The '66 to '67 W-30 section is complete.

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 09:20:30 -0300
Subject: Found on the NET.

My Dad found this stuff; I think the blue one was already posted here...if
interested, please reply to "John L. Berenyi", not me or the mailing list.
Thanks!

>From: "John L. Berenyi" <a210518@texas.dseg.ti.com>
>Newsgroups: rec.autos.marketplace
>Subject: FS 1967 Olds 442 -Dallas, Texas
>Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 07:47:48 -0500
>John L. Berenyi wrote:
>> 
>> Light Blue, white vinyl top.
>> Aqua marine interior.
>> Original motor and turbo 400
>> Console, clock, AC, Rear power antenna, SS1's, SS2's
>> No rust, never hit, built in Fremont CA
>> 3:08 ratio
>> AM radio-works
>> 
>> Make an offer or trade?
>> 
>> John

>From: "John L. Berenyi" <a210518@texas.dseg.ti.com>
>Newsgroups: rec.autos.marketplace
>Subject: FS 1967 Olds Cutlass -Dallas, Texas
>Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 07:48:50 -0500

>John L. Berenyi wrote:
>> 
>> White with Cameo Ivory interior
>> Rebuilt original motor and tranny
>> 2:73 ratio
>> AM radio
>> Interior redone, original head liner mint
>> Slight rust in lower rear quarters
>> LOTS of mechanicals replaced.
>> 
>> Make offer
>> 
>> John
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 11:50:40 -0300
Subject: Re: Transmission gear ratio

> Folks
> 
> I was looking at Bowlings automotive calculator.  I wanted to see what
> changing rear gears would do to my rpms at 60 mph.  However the program
> requires the final gear ratio of the transmission.  Do any of you know
> the final gear ratio of a Turbo-Hydramatic in a 1969 442?
> 
> John Harris
> ALABAMA
> 
> John:

At last, an AL ally.  The final drive ratio on non-overdrive 
transmissions like the turboHydramatic should be 1:1.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: "Andrew A. Senko" <senko@reston.ans.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 16:54:25 -0300
Subject: A Story!  Oh Joy!

Boys, Girls and Internet Novices:  It's story time!!

A long time ago, in the early days of the internet, a new concept was
born:  The Mailing List.  Mailing lists came about when it was
decided that it would be nice to have the capability to easily share
information with a group of people.

The lists became wildly popular, but you never knew what was going to be
discussed.  This was amusing for a short period of time, but soon became
chaotic and frustrating.  So the users thought and thought, and after they
had thought about it long enough, they decided that the mailing lists should
each be assigned a topic.  The reasoning was along the lines of - if people
were interested in the topic, they would participate in the list.

Since different mailing lists were created for different topics, you no
longer had to wonder what would be discussed on a particular list, and you
could easily avoid the topics that you did not wish to discuss.

Therefore boys and girls, if you wonder why some people
are objecting to off-topic messages on the list, it is because they
understand and adhere to the protocol that has been laid down, and they
feel offended when newcomers or anyone else abuses these very simple
guidelines.

The bottom line is, when you have a message that is relevant to
Oldsmobiles, send it to the Oldsmobile list.  When you have a message that
is not relevant to Oldsmobiles, either send it DIRECTLY to someone who
cares, or find another list that discusses the topic in the message.

Everyone agreed that this was a simple and viable solution, and only the
truly inconsiderate users chose to ignore the guidelines.

The End.

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 09:40:57 -0300
Subject: Shifting

Is there a way to change the WOT shift point of the TH350 in my Olds?
Adjustable modulator (are they available)?  First to second is the only one
I want to change.  It currently shifts to second at 4000 rpm on WOT; I would
like to increase it by 300 or 400 rpm.
 
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 12:06:19 -0300
Subject: Re: Hey Toro owners... need advice

> There's a '66 Toro for sale here.    He also claims that it is completely 
rust/dent free, and
> has never had a single dent.  It has been covered and garaged for the
> past 8 years.  And everything is supossedly original.  He hasn't set a
> price.  He's asking for best offer.  What would be the value of this car?
> If I offered him $1800, do you think he'd laugh in my face?  Let me know 
what you think.  Thanks in
> advance.
> 
> -Blaine
> '

Blaine:

The chrome wheels are a very desireable option.  They look just like the 
painted ones except that the center section is chromed.  They even 
accept the same caps & trim rings.  The tilt & telescope wheel is like 
the Corvette, big Olds, Cadillac, etc. in that it tilts as the modern 
wheels do & it slides in towards the dash & out toward you about 4 or 
5".  This is also a desireable option unless the turn signal switch is 
broken ($100 & up).  The steering wheels are also specific to this 
column.

$1800 would be a steal for a car as you describe.  I don't believe that 
you would be wrong at twice that if it is as described.  Look for rust 
at the front & rear windows & trunk (those drains in the rear rust).  
Check the floors & lower front fenders.  Dash parts might be hard to 
get.  The car should not clunk or vibrate on acceleration from a traffic 
light (universal joints & axles).  Check all accessories for electrical 
problems.  Try the AC.  The air cleaner should be present (low profile). 
 Check exhaust (expensive).  

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 09:48:13 -0300
Subject: Re: Fans

At 04:02 PM 8/16/96 -0300, you wrote:

>Flex fans used to be avialable in fiberglass.  Anyone know if they are still
>out there?  Very light and "flexed" just fine thank you.  

Yes, I think they are.  I had a friend who built a 75 Trans Am with an Olds
455 in it a few years ago.  He had one that he bought new, don't know where
he got it, though.
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 18:33:14 -0300
Subject: The RIGHT tool for the job 

Thanks you very much!  My order is being made today so I can retire a 
couple of screwdrivers!.  Finally a complete set without having to spend $8 
per stinking tool!

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!
- ---------------
I saw a door panel tool in Eastwood's catalog that is a part of a set of
three for trim, window cranks, window trim, windshield molding clips and
door panels.  $11 for the set, P/N 5619. 800-345-1178 or
http://www.eastwoodco.com.

Spud     "Fart proudly."
'86 FXST   --Benjamin Franklin
'73 Delta 88
'79 LeBaron

------------------------------

From: mike.blankenship@medaphis.com
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 17:24:12 -0300
Subject: Toothbrush

I am sorry if I rumpled anybodys fenders with the "toothbrush" E-mail. I
apologize to the Great State of Alabama for any unsavory e-mails that followed.


Mike Blankenship  

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 18:21:29 -0300
Subject: Re: 1987 olds tornado trofeo 

I think this was the first year of a different body style.  It and the '88 had 
a
sort of short trunk that was lengthened in '89, I beleive.  For my 2 cents, I 
think the short trunk makes the car look better.  Also beleive the stiffest 
suspension factory available was the FE3 option - should have a red FE3 emblem 
on trunk.  Nice looking car -sweet!  Go for it!

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 09:58:39 -0300
Subject: Re: A Story!  Oh Joy!

At 04:54 PM 8/16/96 -0300, you wrote:
>
>Boys, Girls and Internet Novices:  It's story time!!

>Since different mailing lists were created for different topics, you no
>longer had to wonder what would be discussed on a particular list, and you
>could easily avoid the topics that you did not wish to discuss.
>
>Therefore boys and girls, if you wonder why some people
>are objecting to off-topic messages on the list, it is because they
>understand and adhere to the protocol that has been laid down, 
>The bottom line is, when you have a message that is relevant to
>Oldsmobiles, send it to the Oldsmobile list.  When you have a message that
>is not relevant to Oldsmobiles, either send it DIRECTLY to someone who
>cares, or find another list that discusses the topic in the message.

I wasn't going to say anything, but...thank you, Andrew!  I think probably
one quarter to one third of the messages I got today had something to do
with toothbrushes and Alabama (or something like that).  Kind of a pain in
the *ss having to weed out that much non-Olds crap.  I signed up to this
list to discuss Oldsmobiles.  Not toothbrushes, unless your talking about
cleaning car parts with them.  
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 10:04:40 -0300
Subject: Re: A GM Historical Moment... (Non-Olds)

At 01:58 PM 8/16/96 -0300, you wrote:
 poor b*st*rd had the infamous
>"V - 8/6/4" motivating his kahoona.  

Please describe this...is it a V8 that runs on 4, 6 or 8 cylinders depending
use??  Sounds pretty lame..
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 18:44:49 -0300
Subject: Sagging headliner help 

A rather cheap and very reliable fix for the sagging headliner is to 
replace the rubber backed cloth with short loop indoor/outdoor carpet.

Removed all trim around headliner.  Careful.  The plastic push in clips 
retaining the trim are are VERY HARD TO FIND, and there are many different 
styles securing the trim!  Careful with removing the cardboard shell so as 
to not damage it.  Careful with the dome light (12V connector that is bare) 
- - disconnect your battery(!!!) and don't break the plastic light holder!

I used an outdoor carpet adhesive to bond outdoor carpeting to the
cardboard.  You will need 2 quarts, be generous for a good bond.  Used a 
putty knife to spread.  Proceeded to lay the cardboard out on the floor or 
large flat surface to dry, with bags of newpapers on top to ensure the 
carpet would form to the various curves and stick well.

Check the bond at different curves and add more if necessary.  3 days 
later, use a sharp utility knife to trim the excess carpet and put it back 
in.  Smelled a bit for a week - do this before it is -150 celcius!

The carpet can take a lot of abuse - skiis, ski poles, boxes, campaign
signs.  The seam doesn't even show - pay attention to that.  It actually 
looks pretty good!

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

- ------------
Boy I hope not! These cutlass's are known for hanging, sagging headliners
and mine is in perfect shape. It will stay there if that is the case. Not a
day goes by where I don't see a 78-87 Cutlass with a stapled up headliner.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com)
1980 4-4-2 W-30....1 of 886 produced                                       
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25....H/OCA #0278A            
1988 Camaro IROC Z-28
- -------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 17:36:39 -0300
Subject: RE: Flow Master Mufflers

Its all personal preference and how serious you are about your car =
making power. I'd also throw away the 2.25" exghaust as its probably as =
restrictive as your mufflers are as well, go with a 2.75-3.00" system. =
Big difference.

- ----------
From: 	John Harris[SMTP:John.Harris@rttc.redstone.army.mil]
Sent: 	Friday, August 16, 1996 3:39 PM
To: 	Oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Flow Master Mufflers

Folks

I want your opinions on Flow Masters.  One guy already said that he
thought 2 chamber Flow Masters were too loud for street use. =20

I have a 69 442 with 2.25 inch exhaust pipes.  I was thinking of using 2
chamber Flow Masters.  What do the rest of you think?  I will not drive
this car much, just on weekends etc..

John Harris

------------------------------

From: Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 18:44:28 -0300
Subject: Re: Woodward Dream Cruise '96

>Well anybody with Oldsmobiles can meet me at 13 mile and Woodward
>on the Southbound side at the shopping center.  I will be wearing a 
>7th Annual Mondello Olds Nat t-shirt and will have a small green pinic table
>with an umbrella.  My Name is Mark and I will be looking for MIke Hall and 
>Brian (sorry forgot last name).  So either E-mail me and I will give you
>times
>or I'll just see you there.


And I will see you there!


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Michael R. Hall                                  Ortonville, Michigan
E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com                   OCA #17903
The Oldsmobile Stable:    
     1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
     1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...
         Brought to you by a Apple Power Macintosh 7100/80
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

------------------------------

From: Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 18:44:31 -0300
Subject: Re: W30 Bars

Mark Prince writes:
>All 442's from 70 to 72 with the FE3 suspension came with these extra two
>arms.

I am assuming that the "extra two bars" are the lower rear control arms. 
The lower control arms are linked together by the rear sway bar. The 
non-performance models of the A-body that were equipped with a rear sway 
bar must have the arms. The arms came in two flavors. Performace cars had 
a "boxed" version as the arm is basically a U channel. This channel had 
welded plates over the open end of the U channel. The non-performance 
cars, the channel was, well, open...

The "boxed" control arms are a must for any performance A-body...
All cars should have the upper rear control arms, the lowers may/may not 
be there.


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Michael R. Hall                                  Ortonville, Michigan
E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com                   OCA #17903
The Oldsmobile Stable:    
     1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
     1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...
         Brought to you by a Apple Power Macintosh 7100/80
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 12:46:58 -0300
Subject: Re: My Resto Tip (was RE: Toothbrush) -Reply

> 
> Blaine Sanders 5483 wrote:
> >
> > (I'm assuming you underlined the Toro, but on my computer it
> > shows up under the Cutlass)
> 
> Use a fixed-width font.  Only eggcraters use proportional fonts.   ;)
> 
> The 66 Toro and Mike
> 
> --
> 66:

Egg crater's don't use no proportional fonts.  We is family orrientated.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 16:38:38 -0300
Subject: Re: A GM Historical Moment... (Non-Olds) 

>Please describe this...is it a V8 that runs on 4, 6 or 8 cylinders depending
>use??  Sounds pretty lame..

Exactly right. Forget how it worked -- something to do with solenoids
acting on the valvetrain rockers? I seem to remember photos of the engine
showing some important-looking bulges on the rocker covers.

Anyway, it was supposed to switch number of cylinders in use based on load,
with a single-digit LED readout on the dash to tell you how many cylinders
were firing at the time. This was big news when it first came out; I was
in England at the time, around 1979 or 1980, and there were photos in the
papers there showing it, even though the car was only sold in the U.S.

After it proved to be, um, less than successful, there was a little 
industry that sprang up in the classified ads from guys offering to 
hotwire the engines to all-eight-cylinder mode for a small fee, usually 
fifty bucks or so.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 18:59:04 -0300
Subject: My Turn; was: Re: A Story!  Oh Joy! 

Let me join the fray here for a bit :)!  I read mail with CCMail and 
despite its shortcomings, the search feature is nice, especially after a 
weekend (I read at work) or a week off.  I just read the whole thread after 
searching on a word in the subject.  

Not comdemning or applauding the toothbrush episode.  This got a bit out of 
hand, along with some of the "me too" discussions, but you can get through 
it rather quickly.  This list is still way, way better than the 
alternatives out there on the Internet.

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

- ----------
I think probably
one quarter to one third of the messages I got today had something to do
with toothbrushes and Alabama (or something like that).  Kind of a pain in
the *ss having to weed out that much non-Olds crap.  

------------------------------

From: "AUVAX7::RILES" <RILES%AUVAX7.decnet@auscam.amd.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 17:52:00 -0300
Subject: Re: A GM Historical Moment... (Non-Olds)

Dave,

This was a GM feature on their Cadilacs that would hold open the valves and 
cut spark 
to two or four cylinders depending on the load or rpm or something (not 
exactly 
sure).  Supposedly at cruising speed, only 4 cylinders would be doing any 
work, thus 
saving fuel.  It WAS pretty lame.

- -Robert
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
At 01:58 PM 8/16/96 -0300, you wrote:
 poor b*st*rd had the infamous
>"V - 8/6/4" motivating his kahoona.  

Please describe this...is it a V8 that runs on 4, 6 or 8 cylinders depending
use??  Sounds pretty lame..
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 18:04:02 -0300
Subject: Re: My Resto Tip (was RE: Toothbrush) -Reply -Reply 

>  > Use a fixed-width font.  Only eggcraters use proportional fonts.   ;)
>  > The 66 Toro and Mike
>  > --
> 66:

>Egg crater's don't use no proportional fonts.  We is family orrientated.
>
>Bill Culp
>Decatur, Alabama

Wutt in thee h-e-l-l is un eggcrader?  You callun me a former?

- -BS

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 21:22:32 -0300
Subject: Re: My Resto Tip (was RE: Toothbrush) -Reply -Reply

Blaine Sanders 5483 wrote:
> 
> Wutt in thee h-e-l-l is un eggcrader?  You callun me a former?

66 Toronados have a beautiful grill & taillights consisting of elegant 
horizontal bars.  Not only is the design very tasteful but it echos the 
lines of the Cord.

67 Toronados, on the other haand, have use an eggcrate pattern apparently 
inflicted upon them by some marketing weenie who couldn't leave well 
enough alone.

Uh-Oh...

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 21:34:18 -0300
Subject: Re: My Turn; was: Re: A Story!  Oh Joy!

David Brown wrote:
> 
> Not comdemning or applauding the toothbrush episode.  This got a bit 
> out of hand, along with some of the "me too" discussions, but you can 
> get through it rather quickly.  

Exactly.  As usual, five times as much bandwidth gets burnt up carrying 
on about a "NO-NO" post then it deserved in the first place.  Did it ever 
occur to anyone that simply ignoring a post you don't care for may be the 
better course of action?  

And to the best of my knowledge, we all receiving the same numbers of 
posts.  Anyone out there getting extra portions?  

> This list is still way, way better than the alternatives out there on 
> the Internet.

Agreed.

And as to my contributions:  I apologize in advance for any finger or 
wrist injuries/syndomes cause by repeated clicks on Delete.

The 66 Toro and Mike and his toothbrush


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 18:36:37 -0300
Subject: Re: Transmission gear ratio

> From oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca Fri Aug 16 12:21 EDT 1996
> From: John Harris <John.Harris@rttc.redstone.army.mil>
> X-Openmail-Hops: 1
> Date: 	Fri, 16 Aug 1996 13:13:33 -0300
> Subject: Transmission gear ratio
> To: oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
> Encoding: 14 text
> BTW 
> What does a tornado and a divorce have in commom in GA?
> 
> When one comes through someone is going to loose a house trailer.

You spelled Toronado wrong.

- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-5450    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 17:28:59 -0300
Subject: Re: A GM Historical Moment... (Non-Olds) 

>This was a GM feature on their Cadilacs that would hold open the 
>valves and cut spark to two or four cylinders depending on the load 
>or rpm or something (not exactly sure).  Supposedly at cruising speed, 
>only 4 cylinders would be doing any work, thus saving fuel. It WAS 
>pretty lame.

Now that you mention it, this seems especially bass-awkwards since you
burn a lot more fuel getting _to_ cruising speed. I found this out in
a big way last month; my '93 Bonne with the V6 and supercharger gets
18-20 mpg around town, which isn't too bad when you compare to my '82
Cutlass V6 which was lucky to get 22 mpg on the _highway_. During a
trip back from Wisconsin, I filled up the Bonneville, immediately got
on the interstate, drove ~200 miles with A/C on, got off the interstate
and immediately filled up again. 32.93 mpg on that sprint! It ain't
the high-speed cruising, it's the getting there from a stop that costs.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 18:47:21 -0300
Subject: Re: Northern Ohio Chapter Show

Thanks so much for that info. I heard a rumor of a show at Carnation mall
and was trying to find out info but could not. I will be going and showing
the 80 442. You got any more info on the show? I have been to that mall many
times, nice place and about 20 min from Akron.
Also tell me more about that Columbus show. I might attend that also. Will
you be there? 

At 12:06 PM 8/16/96 -0300, Daniel Gulino wrote:
>Jason,
>
>I note that you're from Akron.
>Are you planning to attend the Northern Ohio Chapter OCA car show on the 
>25th?  For that matter, is anyone else planning to attend.  It's on 
>August 25th at the Carnation Mall, Route 62, Alliance, Ohio?  I believe 
>the mall is a little to the west of Alliance on 62.  I've never been to 
>this show before, but I'm planning to drive up from Athens (Ohio) this year.
>If anyone wants more particulars, let me know.
>
>
>And while we're on the subject, the Mid-Ohio Chapter OCA all-Oldsmobile 
>Car Show and Swap Meet will be held on Sunday, September 15, 1996 at Tom 
>Gill Oldsmobile, just off of I-270 at Sawmill Road, Columbus, Ohio.  
>Registration begins at 8:30 a.m. and runs to 11:30.  Awards at 4:00 p.m.  
>If anyone wants more particulars about this show, let me know.  Two years 
>ago we had 131 cars, and last year, even with rainy weather, we had over 
>90.  We're looking forward to another good show this year.
>
>
>
>
>Dan Gulino
>Secretary and Newsletter Editor, Mid-Ohio Chapter
>
>
>
>
>
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com)
1980 4-4-2 W-30....1 of 886 produced                                       
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25....H/OCA #0278A            
1988 Camaro IROC Z-28
- -------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 18:48:44 -0300
Subject: Largest Car

>From Top Hat John's Classic Cars column in U.S. Auto Scene....

	Probably the largest vehicle was built in the early
	years of the American car - and it was an Oldsmobile,
	the 1911 Limited.  Overly large with 42-inch wheels,
	huge brass horns and brass trim.  It has a top that
	would tower over any of today's tallest basketball
	stars.
	
- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-5450    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v


	

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 21:48:12 -0300
Subject: Re: A GM Historical Moment... (Non-Olds)

Andrew C. Green wrote:
> 
> It ain't the high-speed cruising, it's the getting there from a stop 
> that costs.

You betcha.  The Lincoln Log has a MPG display.  It will show your 
average MPG for a few seconds than switch to instantanious (sp?) mode.  
While I'm not sure just how accurate it is, it is DAMN scary to watch it 
drop down to 1 or 2 MPG whan you start out from a stop.

...on the other hand, it's great fun getting 84 MPG downhill.  (dega vu?)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Joe Bazzetta <bazzetta@i1.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 18:54:42 -0300
Subject: unsubscribe oldmobile



------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 21:58:37 -0300
Subject: Re: Largest Car

Robert Lawrence wrote:
> 
>         Probably the largest vehicle was built in the early
>         years of the American car - and it was an Oldsmobile,

Suprise!

>         the 1911 Limited. Overly large with 42-inch wheels,
>         huge brass horns and brass trim. 

Damn glad it was "Limited"

>         It has a top that would tower over any of today's tallest 
>         basketball  stars.

And at a price only they could afford.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 20:29:53 -0300
Subject: Re: Misc stuff Digest #267 

Just to be extra cautious here, remove the positive coil wire (B+ or +).  I 
know
someone who toasted a Cutlass while doing a compression test.  Pictures were 
pretty ugly.  Had all the plugs out, spark jumped the gap inside the boot, 
there
was gas in the air, wooosh!!

It couldn't technically catch on fire, but it did.  Then there is always human 
error, like putting each plug in as a cylinder gets checked.  At some point 
there will be enough vacuum to draw fuel, but have a wire dangling.

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!
 
- ---------
If all the spark plugs are removed, where is the vacuum signal being produced
to pull air/fuel into the cylinders for combustion which, since there are no
plugs, can't be ignited in any case?  Removing all the plugs is sufficient.

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 22:28:19 -0300
Subject: Re: Fans and Cooling

Bob,

> I was very surprised that highway speeds did not bring the temp down 
> when the small fan was installed.

I'll bet.  Which seems to show that the large fan was needed to suck air 
through the radiator so as to compensate for poor airflow.

> I also have that "custom" hood with a rear facing hood scoop.  I can 
> attest by the heat that enters the car if I open the cowl vent that it 
> definitely releases some heat out of that opening.  

Which is interesting in that's not how I thought the rear facing scoop 
was supposed to work.  I thought it was *supposed* to be in a high 
pressure area in front of the cowl which forces cool outside air into the 
intake manifold.  Much like a forward facing scoop.

> Is there a speed/condition where the air coming from the radiator has 
> to "fight" to get out of the engine compartment?  

I wouldn't think so.  I would suspect the air flow path would is fairly 
constant through out the cars speed range.  That is, it's doubtful that 
it starts piling up under the hood suddenly at 42 MPH.

> Increasing inlet can only be effective if the outlet can cooperate.

That's true.  It would be harder for the air to escape from though the 
bottom of the car as that would be the high pressure area (the top of the 
car being the low pressure area).  So the inability to exhaust air from 
the radiator would present exactly the same problem as a poor intake.  As 
you say, AIAO.  With good airflow and at a reasonable speed, there should 
be no reason for a fan at all.

Ever notice how the radiators are mounted on an Indy car?  Sideways.

Hmmm...  This needs more thought.

Are you familiar with what's called a "Tunnel" or Tunnel-Effect" car?

Cheers,

Mike

BTW, do you ever come down here to race?  Let me know if you do.


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Gregory G. Kalkhoff" <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 21:41:55 -0300
Subject: Re: Misc stuff Digest #267

David Brown wrote:
 
> It couldn't technically catch on fire, but it did. 


Yeah....those were my famouse last words too!!  (:

Sparky

------------------------------

From: curly@sgi.net
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 20:20:23 -0300
Subject: RE: Flow Master Mufflers 

>>I have a 69 442 with 2.25 inch exhaust pipes.  I was thinking of using 2
>>chamber Flow Masters.  What do the rest of you think?  

The best muffler on the market if you ask me...for performance, sound
quality, and durability...they give a nice clear deep sound!

Jeff

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 20:43:58 -0300
Subject: Hey Toro owners... Thanks! 

To everyone who gave me all that good advice/info, thanks!  I'm excited
to look at the Toro this weekend.  I'll take notes and let you all know how
it goes...

- -Blaine
'72 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: JK McCall <jkmccall@clic.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 21:00:02 -0300
Subject: Re: And We're Off  Was: Toothbrush

mefco@sprynet.com wrote:
> 
> I guess my reply is this is why God gave us a delete button. If I don't want 
to
> read it, I simply push delete.
> 
> Art Fuller


Entertaining:

What started out as a couple of guys just kidding, one complaint and all 
this bandwidth dedicated to this subject.  Go figure....  Domino effect?

Joe McCall

------------------------------

From: Nick DiGiovanni <ndigiova@direct.ca>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 20:40:36 -0300
Subject: Re: Hood Insulation Pad 

At 03:52 PM 8/15/96 -0300, you wrote:

>I think it also offers some heat protection for the paint on the hood,
>especially against, shall we say, "minor" engine fires.  :-)  I'd leave
>the insulation in place...  My $.02 only...
>
>Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
>Datalogics, Inc.
>441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
>Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

I once read somewhere that the reason the hood insulation pads had those
plastic clips was so that they would melt in a underhood fire and cause the
pad to fall and smother the fire.  Those clips supposidely melt at a
specific temp and the pad is made of some asbestos-type material that does
not burn easily.  Has anyone else heard of this?  Therefore, if this is the
case and you want to glue the pad in place, then using a specific
temperature sensative glue is recommended.
Nick DiGiovanni
Port Coquitlam, B.C.
1970 4-4-2 - "Snarls Softly and Carries a Big Kick"

------------------------------

From: Nick DiGiovanni <ndigiova@direct.ca>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 21:16:03 -0300
Subject: Re: '70 Force-air cleaner 

At 05:15 PM 8/15/96 -0300, you wrote:
>
>The reproduction air cleaners offered by most vendors has a rough texture
>finish rather than smooth like the originals.  I heard Brothers offers an
>exact duplicate of an original for $499, but I bet it would take 6 months for
>them to get it to ya.

I have been told that it is so identical to an original one that it is not
considered a reproduction but a counterfeit.  In fact, it is even date
stamped on the back like the original.

Nick DiGiovanni
Port Coquitlam, B.C.
1970 4-4-2 - "Snarls Softly and Carries a Big Kick"

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 22:18:46 -0300
Subject: Re: A GM Historical Moment... (Non-Olds)

I had one of those engines in an 81 Caddy I think. Watching the numbers go 
from 
8 to 6 to 4 to 6 to 8 worried me to death. Only time 4 was consistent was 
going 
down hill.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: Chris and Robin <cya442@erols.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 22:17:41 -0300
Subject: Re: Flow Master Mufflers

John Harris wrote:
> 
> Folks
> 
> I want your opinions on Flow Masters.  One guy already said that he
> thought 2 chamber Flow Masters were too loud for street use.
> 
> I have a 69 442 with 2.25 inch exhaust pipes.  I was thinking of using 2
> chamber Flow Masters.  What do the rest of you think?  I will not drive
> this car much, just on weekends etc..
> 
> John Harris

I have a set of 3 chamber Flowmasters on my '68 442 w/455.  It is a 
little quieter but it still does a nice job of waking the neighbors 
up in the morning! :)

Chris M.
cya442@erols.com

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 22:22:27 -0300
Subject: Re: Flow Master Mufflers

John,
As long as you have a good supply of cotton to put in your ears you'll love 
the 
two chamber mufflers. The Police and your neighbors might not appreciate them 
though. The three chamber muffler is not exactly quiet, but I would sure 
choose 
them over the two for driving on a regular basis.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 15:14:56 -0300
Subject: Re: Transmission gear ratio

At 06:36 PM 8/16/96 -0300, you wrote:

>> What does a tornado and a divorce have in commom in GA?
>> 
>> When one comes through someone is going to loose a house trailer.
>
>You spelled Toronado wrong.

I think he possibly _meant_ to spell it tornado.  Maybe he's just a bit
confused about the name of the car -- it's an Oldsmobile Toronado, not Tornado.
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 22:48:53 -0300
Subject: Re: Northern Ohio Chapter Show

On Fri, 16 Aug 1996, Jason P. Labay wrote:

> Thanks so much for that info. I heard a rumor of a show at Carnation mall
> and was trying to find out info but could not. I will be going and showing
> the 80 442. You got any more info on the show? I have been to that mall many
> times, nice place and about 20 min from Akron.

The Northern Ohio Chapter show is at the Carnation Mall outside of 
Alliance, Ohio on Route 62 on Sunday, August 25.  There will be 1st, 2nd, 
and 3rd place trophies awarded in 18 different classes.  Registration 
begins at 9:00 a.m. and ends at noon.  Trophies are awarded at 3:30.  
There is also supposed to be a swap meet.  Dashplaques to the first 100 
cars.  The registration fee is $10.  

> Also tell me more about that Columbus show. I might attend that also. Will
> you be there? 
> 


The Mid-Ohio Chapter show is at Tom Gill Oldsmobile/GMC, 2539 Billingsley 
Road, Columbus, Ohio.  Take the Sawmill Road exit from I-270 (the beltway 
that encircles Columbus) in the northwestern section of town.  Go north 
to the first stoplight and turn right.  Tom Gill is about 1/2 mile on the 
right.  The date of the show is September 15.  Registration begins at 
8:30 and ends at 11:30, with trophies awarded at 4 p.m.  There will be 34 
classes with three trophies awarded per class.  Registration fees are 
$8.00 show only, $12.00 show and judged.  If you preregister by September 
9, you can take $2.00 off of each of those fees.  If anyone is 
interested, email me your mailing address, and I'll mail you a copy of 
the Mid-Ohio chapter show flier containing the registration form.  You'll 
especially want to get a flier if you want to preregister.  I'm sure 
we'll also be handing out fliers at the Northern Ohio show.  I also have 
a few copies of the Northern Ohio chapter show flier, so if you send me 
your mailing address right away, I can mail you one before the 25th (a 
week from Sunday).  But it's too late to preregister for the Northern 
Ohio show.

Yes, I will be at the Columbus show.  In fact, I'll probably be the guy 
reading off the trophy winners at the end (because everyone else in the 
club chickens out!).  :)




Dan Gulino

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 17:48:42 -0300
Subject: Re: A GM Historical Moment... (Non-Olds)

> I had one of those engines in an 81 Caddy I think. Watching the numbers go 
from
> 8 to 6 to 4 to 6 to 8 worried me to death. Only time 4 was consistent was 
going
> down hill.
> 
> Art Fuller

Art:

I had an '83 Eldorado with the standard 4.1L.  If the 4-6-8 was slower & 
had less torque than that thing, then heaven help the poor thing.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 17:52:21 -0300
Subject: Re: Transmission gear ratio

Dave Paulison wrote:
> 
> At 06:36 PM 8/16/96 -0300, you wrote:
> 
> >> What does a tornado and a divorce have in commom in GA?
> >>
> >> When one comes through someone is going to loose a house trailer.
> >
> >You spelled Toronado wrong.
> 
> I think he possibly _meant_ to spell it tornado.  Maybe he's just a bit
> confused about the name of the car -- it's an Oldsmobile Toronado, not 
Tornado.
> --
> Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
> dpauliso@metrolink.net

Dave:

I'm glad all of those things went through GA & not here.  Everyone in AL 
is still shaken about the rumor that Sherman's great grandson was 
coming.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #269
********************************
 
