To:	oldsmobile-digest @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET @ ABTLAB
Date:	08/22/96 12:34:20 AM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #275


oldsmobile-digest         Thursday, 22 August 1996      Volume 01 : Number 275


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 13:54:26 -0300
Subject: Re: Vent cover and hood questions (98 1964 4DHT Holiday sports sedan) 

At 05:15 AM 8/21/96 -0400, you wrote:
>> >   The driver side near-headlight is pointing too
>> >   high. How can it be lowered. I have studied
[snip]
>> There should be a screw just above or below each headlight facing forward
>> (there would also be one on the side) for vertical adjustment
>
>Don't confuse the screws that hold the stainless headlight ring (3) to 
>the bucket w/the screws (2) that adjust the light position.  The 
>adjusting screw will be at 6 O'clock for the up & down motion of the 
>headlight & at 9 O'clock for the side to side motion.
>
>Bill Culp
>Decatur, Alabama
>
>PS:  My 1963 Dodge has a PVC valve - the '62 doesn't.

Ooops, yup, should have mentioned that warning (since it was something I
found out the hard way, having the light pop out in my hand when I removed
the *four* lamp retaining screws located at about 10:30, 1:30, 4:30 and
7:30). The adjusting screws should be easily accessible, and usually have a
kind of "squared-off" head, as opposed to oval or rounded.

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 13:54:24 -0300
Subject: Re: 455 

At 11:32 AM 8/21/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Item Subject: cc:Mail Text
>     Hello there olds-mongers,
>     Got a question for you....I really want to put a 455 into my '64 F-85 
>     deluxe and need to know what model and year Olds would be the best to 
>     get it from. Also, I need to know if there are any structural changes 
>     I need to make i.e. motor/tranny mounts, frame considerations, 
>     steering box location. 
>     Thanx for any help you can give. 
>     Eric Buckner
>     '64 F-85 Deluxe
>     Albany, OR

Real quick, you want a 1968-1970 Toronado engine, for the following reasons:

1) They were some of the the highest hp (all high-compression, all big
intake valve) motors that Olds used those years), and they all came with the
desireable "C" heads.

2) The Toronados from those years have all rusted away (nobody replaced
their trunk drain tubes...), so the entire car can be picked up for real cheap.

If you have a choice, go with the 1970, since the choke is integrated with
the carb (unless you are going to an aftermarket intake, in which case you
can use whatever kind of choke suits your desires).

Another excellent choice would be a '66-'67 Toronado 425 (can use the
regular cam, but need different lifters), or also a '71-'72 Toronado engine,
which will have less compression and less hp. Don't worry, though, about
running a "high-compression" 455 on pump gas; actual compression is probably
something less than 10:1, and you won't ping on 93 octane if you tailor your
distributor curve with a $20 kit from Crane.

Get new motor mounts anyway (ask for 1965 442 mounts). Use a TH400
short-tail trans. Try to upgrade to power disk brakes. Add in heavy-duty
front springs and anti-sway-bar (do the back, while you're at it; many
places sell the entire kit). The 455 will make you go plenty, but I'm
assuming you might want to turn and stop (especially if say a little girl
runs out into the street in front of you; then the "original" drum brakes
won't seem like such a good idea. :(

The steering box can remain the same; you can also upgrade to a power unit
with a faster ratio.

As you can see, this can run into some big money; you can easily spend as
much upgrading your chassis as you can on your 455. It all depends on
whether you want a high-performance car, or a low-performance car with a
high-performance engine (many people often confuse the two).

------------------------------

From: JJF97@uno.cc.geneseo.edu
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 15:14:48 -0300
Subject: Resto  Tips  .....

Here is a tip for those of you who have a stock radio that either doesn't
work, has just am, or if you want to play tapes or cd's and keep your stock
factory appearance.....


On your stock speaker(s) there are 2 tabs.  Attach speaker wire to it
and run it to the glove box.  In the glove box, if you have a 12 volt
system...  you can put an aftermarket radio (which has the features that 
you choose), this may have a drawback, because you are not able to use your
stock radio if it does work because of the antenna connection (unless you
get an adapter to use multiple radios on 1 antenna).....

this i did on my ch*vy nova....  it works great....
and it uses the stock power source.....

Here is an alternative......

my 48 olds is a six volt system, so i couldn't use the first choice....
i ran speaker wire from the radio speaker to the glove box and on the glove
box end of the wire, i put an earphone jack like the one found at the end
of a walkman headphones....   now i plug in my walkman (which has a good 
reception, and a continuous play tape of 48 oldsmobile commercials and 
radio shows) and i am still able to use the stock radio on this and there is
no need for an antenna connection on a walkman.  it runs on 2 AA batteries
so at car shows i have 8 hours of continuous play tape on good alkaline
batteries (longer if it is strickly radio).

now of course, the downside is you have to change batteries (unless you have
a 6 to 12 volt adjuster from "We Fix AM" allowing 12 volt accessories
to be run off of a 6 volt system then option 1 can be used or a car power 
adapter can plug in to the walkman / discman.

another downside to this is if you are a channel flipper, reaching across
to the glovebox can be a pain.  but if you use a walkman and a little longer
wire, you can have it sit next to you on the fron seat until you wish to leave
the car.  having the radio in the glove box not only hidesthe radio, but
you can lock it too.  

sometimes with multiple speakers, the sound is very soft.....
at radio shack for $11, there is an amplifier that runs on a 9 volt 
battery, this helps the volume increase.
this wont blow your speakers because the 9 volt battery doesn't affect your
ohms on your speakers.

using an after market radio in glovebox allows for base cranking tunes 
to happen at loud volumes on the road.... where a walkman allows for
medium volume levels to occur as a max.

you can choose, they both work and are great for their particular purpose...
(walkman at shows, doesn't drain car battery, aftermarket on the road)

if you have a stock radio... it can still look nice in it's proper
place, and you can enjoy the tunes YOU want.

If you have "?"'s on this, feel free to e-mail me...

Resto Corner

- --joe ferrero

------------------------------

From: Ernie Marinko <ernie.marinko@yale.edu>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 12:18:58 -0300
Subject: Re: Cylinder Heads  

>>If the 455 is a 39 degree block how can I tell if the early series heads I
>>have are from a 45 degree motor?  I don't want to install them and find out
>>I have clearance problems with the push rods.

>Based on what Joe Mondello and Chris Witt have said, it was my
>understanding that the difference in cam bank angle of the 425 and 455
>blocks did not have any bearing on the heads. The heads were all
>interchangeable.
>The cam bank angle issue affects your choice of available camshafts. The
>more common angle (39 Degree?) is the 455 cam bank angle and cams can be
>had for peanuts. All of Mondellos cams are for the 39 degree angle and sell
>for around $100. My recent 425 rebuild included a Crane cam which had to be
>custom ground for the 425's 45 degree bank angle at a cost of about $250,
>paid in advance.
>
>

I read on page 6 of the Mondello's Tech Manual that you have to bore the
push rod holes to .562" i.d. to put the 45 degree heads on a (455) 39 degree
block.  It says it applies to "A" heads and some "B" heads.  I have "B"
heads how do I know if they are for a 45 or 39 degree block?  I know all big
block heads will bolt right on but I'd like to find out in advance if I have
to enlarge the pushrod holes.   

------------------------------

From: eric_b_buckner@non-hp-om.cv.hp.com
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 14:36:45 -0300
Subject: Re:455+

Item Subject: cc:Mail Text
     you all won't believe what just happened...some ?#$%$%^$#%#$%# hole 
     left his little rice-smelling japanese go-cart in neutral when he 
     parked it this morning, and guess who had the luck of parking in the 
     downhill path of that rampaging little bas?*rd??? yup,...there goes my 
     LRear quarter-panel.....this is starting out to be a bad day...
     Eric Buckner
     (damaged)'64 F-85 deluxe
     Albany, OR

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 14:56:59 -0300
Subject: Re-upholstering Seats -Reply 

>>> <Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com> 08/21/96 09:09am >>>
>Having never done this type of work before, is it that difficult to re-do the
>cover or should I leave it to a professional shop?

>Anybody have any comments on the Year One covers?

I've never bought a seat cover from Year One, and I've actually never
replaced a seat cover.  But I do know what's entailed in doing it.  You'll
need a hog-ring pliers and a bunch of hog-rings (the seat covers may come
with the hog-rings, but you'll probably have to buy the pliers separate.)  It's
pretty much just a matter of removing the old seat cover and putting the
new one back one.  Of course, if your foam is torn or rotten, you'll most
likely have to have that replaced by an upholstery shop.  I don't think Year
One sells those.  I believe, on the bench seats at least, there are two layers
of foam.  If just the top layer is damaged, you're in pretty good shape.  If 
the
lower layer is destroyed, it could get expensive.  The seat covers should
come with complete instructions.
  
>Is searching for NOS material and having one custom sewn a better bet?

First, I doubt you could find actual NOS material.  And second, I'm sure it
would be twice the cost of Year One's Do-It-Yourself covers.  Call around
to your local upholstery shops and compare.  Hopefully someone here has
bought a Year One cover and can comment on the quality/ease of
installation...  Good Luck

- -Blaine

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 13:53:03 -0300
Subject: Re:455+ 

>     you all won't believe what just happened...some ?#$%$%^$#%#$%# hole 
>     left his little rice-smelling japanese go-cart in neutral when he 
>     parked it this morning, and guess who had the luck of parking in the 
>     downhill path of that rampaging little bas?*rd??? yup,...there goes my 
>     LRear quarter-panel.....this is starting out to be a bad day...

Ouch. How bad? Going to need new sheet metal? What'd the other driver
(parker, whatever) have to say?

I had the, um, pleasure of _watching_ when an Infiniti salesman backed a
new Q45 or some such boat into the left rear quarter of the '82 Cutlass
while it was parked. The Infiniti bounced off.  :-)  Left a bit of a
wrinkle in the Cutlass but my favorite body shop did a nice repair at
no charge (to me).

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 13:56:58 -0300
Subject: Re: Re-upholstering Seats -Reply 

>>Having never done this type of work before, is it that difficult to 
>>re-do the cover or should I leave it to a professional shop?
>
>I've never bought a seat cover from Year One, and I've actually never
>replaced a seat cover.  But I do know what's entailed in doing it.  You'll
>need a hog-ring pliers and a bunch of hog-rings (the seat covers may come
>with the hog-rings, but you'll probably have to buy the pliers separate.)
>It's pretty much just a matter of removing the old seat cover and putting
>the new one back one.

"Cars & Parts" had a good photo series on the process a few months back --
actually I think they spread it over a couple of issues -- where they did
a '69 GTO driver's seat. If you can find a source for back issues, it's a
very useful article, shows all the steps along the way.

Re: the padding, I think they left the original stuff there for basic shape,
but added an additional 1" layer of fresh stuff on top, cut to shape with
scissors.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 15:18:29 -0300
Subject: Parking Protection 

Eric,
Sorry to hear about your bad day. I've had them too. 

After two restorations on the same car, I've gotten more conservative
about parking. Usually I leave the front of the car facing out and let
the rear hang over the curb. That is, I park it backwards so if somebody
hits the car, they nail the more replaceable front end, than my one
year one model only rear quarter. Downside is that puts more sensitive
stuff at risk too like the motor, front end, etc., but I feel that steel
is good protection and the old Oldses had plenty of that on the body.

These kind of hits are unfortunately part of the game. I've always felt
these cars were made to be driven and not trailered, sadly part of the 
risk is hits that aren't your fault.

Hope the rest of your day gets better
chris fair

------------------------------

From: eric_b_buckner@non-hp-om.cv.hp.com
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 15:17:59 -0300
Subject: Re:455+

Item Subject: cc:Mail Text
     >>Ouch. How bad? Going to need new sheet metal? What'd the other 
     >>driver (parker, whatever) have to say?
     Crunched the panel in over the wheel and messed up my newly(4 
     days)re-chromed bumper. His car had about 20 feet of coasting before 
     it hit. 
     
     Oh, he said he was real sorry and that he didn't want his insurance 
     company to be involved if possible...turns out that he's an engineer 
     so I'm pretty sure he can afford it. As far as I'm concerned he should 
     be locked up....
     Eric Buckner
     (damaged but still drivable)
     '64 F-85 Deluxe
     Albany, OR 

------------------------------

From: eric_b_buckner@non-hp-om.cv.hp.com
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 15:27:54 -0300
Subject: Re:Parking Protection

Item Subject: cc:Mail Text
     >>Hope the rest of your day gets better 
     Me too!!
     
     The same applies to my year/make, seems as though '63/'65 
     Cutlass/F-85's just aren't going to be suitable donors for my '64. 
     Both front and rear are different. 
     I think I'll just walk the extra 1/4 mile and park out as far as 
     possible. 
     Eric Buckner
     '64 F-85 Deluxe
     
     P.S. There was a monster Ply Fury III next to me ( on the downhill 
     side of course) those are the breaks

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 08:29:49 -0300
Subject: Re: Re-upholstering Seats -Reply 

     Here's a resto-tip for ya.  You'll find lots of types of foam at the 
     fabric/craft store.  Pick a density that matches what you're trying to 
     replace and cut it to fit.  Here's where the tip comes in:  The _only_ 
     decent way to cut this stuff is with an electric carving knife.
     
     Always reach for your Hamilton Beach,
     
     Tom L.


______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: Re-upholstering Seats -Reply
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    8/21/96 11:07 AM

new one back one.  Of course, if your foam is torn or rotten, you'll most 
likely have to have that replaced by an upholstery shop.  I don't think Year 
One sells those.  I believe, on the bench seats at least, there are two layers
of foam.  If just the top layer is damaged, you're in pretty good shape.  If 
the
lower layer is destroyed, it could get expensive.  The seat covers should
come with complete instructions.

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 16:41:46 -0300
Subject: Re: Cylinder Heads 

Are you putting on new head gaskets on a BB, or putting big block heads on 
a small block?  BB heads on a SB engine are not a good idea.

I asked Chris Witt about id'ing a 39 degree cam bank angle block.  Here is 
his reply (also going into the FAQ):

- ---
Coupla ways to check for cam bank angle, and is it a Toro 425 block...
1- Find the engine ID number/letter on the shelf behind the water pump, 
ahead of the intake, just above the timing chain. Now, at the RH 
[passenger] end of this shelf is an upright wall that runs fore-aft. On a 
big block anyhow... It should get fatter toward the front. Right near the 
top, in the fatter part, there should be a drill spot, at about a 45 degree 
angle [parallel to the even-bank head bolt holes] and just barely drilled 
into the wall or rib, until the diameter got to about 3/8". If that drill 
spot is there, then the block is almost w/o a doubt a 39-degree cam block. 
Every '66-7 Toro 425 and '66-7 442 400 engine I have seen so far has had 
this drill spot and has had a 39 degree cam bank angle.

2- The surest way to determine cam bank angle is to take an old lifter 
apart, modify it by fitting a small, say, 1/4" rod into it that sticks out 
a foot or so, and is perfectly coaxial with the lifter. I.e., do it in a 
lathe, not with a hand drill. Install this 'lifter' with the rod sticking 
way out in any lifter bore. Using a 90 degree square, check the angle 
between the block deck surface [where the head bolts on] and the rod in the 
lifter. If the rod is perpendicular to the block deck, it's a 45 degree 
block. If it's off by a readily visible amount, nominal 6 degrees, then you 
have a "39 degree" block.

Basically, the way it worked out was that if the [early (pre-'68) big] 
block had 0.921 lifters, it was an advanced [for the time] 39-degree block, 
and if it had the normal 0.842 lifters, it was an old 45 degree block.
     NOTES: A) Mondello claims that some 330 blocks had a rare 0.842 
lifter/ 39 degree CBA combination- I can't quite buy that until I tear down 
my '67 330 engine & check... and B) Much later, the 307's and 350 Die&Sells 
used the 0.921 lifter, in roller form, and of course being '68&up engines 
all had the 39 degree CBA too.

I think I got as far as the above, then Mondello's Tech Manual came out, 
and he goes another step further- says there's some 425 [non-Toro??] blocks 
with a 0.250" drill spot which are also [???] 39 degree units. Anyhow, 
DS=39 degree s'far as I know. Easy to spot, too.

BTW, if anybody has any old 0.921 lifters on hand that he's not going to 
use anymore, I'd take a few of 'em, pay for shipping...
Chris Witt    wittchri@pilot.msu.edu
- ---

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

- --------------
Has anyone installed big block cylinder heads in a Cutlass (71) with power
brakes, with the motor in the car?

If the 455 is a 39 degree block how can I tell if the early series heads I
have are from a 45 degree motor?

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 15:56:47 -0300
Subject: Re:Parking Protection -Reply 

>     P.S. There was a monster Ply Fury III next to me ( on the downhill 
>     side of course) those are the breaks

Too bad the jap car driver didn't know how to use his... =-)

- -BS

------------------------------

From: Nick DiGiovanni <ndigiova@direct.ca>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 14:53:54 -0300
Subject: Re: Re-upholstering Seats 

At 12:09 PM 8/21/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Anybody have any comments on the Year One covers?
>They claim they are made from the original vendors
>materials but are a little thicker, presumably for better
>wear protection.  How's the fit and finish when installed?
>-Jeff
>jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
>
>1970 442  4-Speed

The seat skins that year one sells are made by PUI.  These are supposed to
be the best on the market for correct apperance, shape, texture, fit etc...
I purchased my set(front and rear) for the '70 442 from Tamraz's
(1-800-442-4601 or 708-904-4500). They sell the exact same brand (PUI) and
are about $115 less ($260/set as oppossed to $375/set from Year One).  They
look perfect.  They also sell the proper pre-molded seat foam if you need it.
A friend of mine purchased just one bucket seat skin (PUI brand) and
installed it in his '69 cutlass 'S' and you could not tell the difference
between the original one and the new one other than the new one being much
cleaner.
Hope this helps...

Nick DiGiovanni
Port Coquitlam, B.C.
1970 4-4-2 - "Snarls Softly and Carries a Big Kick"

------------------------------

From: DESIMONEP@aol.com
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 16:08:38 -0300
Subject: Re: 1968-69 olds parts wanted!!!! 

I am looking for a 1968 442 front grille, dual snorkel air cleaner w/ tubes
and front bumper air pickups.

I am replacing my wheels and tires with 15 or 16 inch for better handling, so
I have a set of (4) 14" rally wheels with relatively new BF Goodrich radial
T/A's 245/60 for sale.

Phil De Simone
desimonep@aol.com

------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei-2@mail.idt.net>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 16:09:40 -0300
Subject: Re: K&N Filters 

At 12:09 PM 8/21/96 -0300, you wrote:
>What is the proper method for cleaning and re-oiling a K&N filter?

According to K & N:

1. Pre-cleaning: Tap the filter to dislodge any large embedded dirt, then
gently brush with a soft bristle brush.

2. Spray on cleaner: liberally and let soak for 10 minutes.

3. Rinse off: with low pressure water. always flush from clean side to dirty
side so as not to drive dirt into filter.

Do Not use high pressure air to clean or dry filter!

To oil:

Spray even along each pleat holding nozzle 3" from filter. Do not spray in a
circular motion. Let stand for 20 minutes and re-spray any white spots.


Do not use non-K&N products! (I learned this the hard way...)

 >Dave Isho --- davei-2@mail.idt.net
     >67 Cutlass CS Convertible
     

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 15:04:04 -0300
Subject: Re:455+ 

>     Oh, he said he was real sorry and that he didn't want his insurance 
>     company to be involved if possible...turns out that he's an engineer 
>     so I'm pretty sure he can afford it.

Aargh! Alarm bells are going off here. You _have_ got a police report on
this, yes? You _do_ have his driver's license info and his insurance
company info, yes? If he doesn't cough up the money or starts claiming
that your parked car leapt into his backwards path (well, more likely
some claim like you were illegally parked, for example) you will want
the police paperwork and some means of having your insurance company go
after _his_ insurance company for reimbursement. Whether he wants his
company involved or not isn't the issue; you need to be certain that he
even _has_ a policy in the first place. Good luck.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: John Harris <John.Harris@rttc.redstone.army.mil>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 16:25:39 -0300
Subject: Source for emission decal 69 442

Folks

I need an emission decal for a 1969 442.  The car has an automatic
transmission and air conditioning.  The engine code is QS.  It is a 400
cid engine, high compression, auto, air, and 4 barell carb.

I have tried Jim Osborn Reproductions and they don't have one.

John M Harris

------------------------------

From: kissrulz@gnn.com (Craig Dobbins)
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 12:37:10 -0300
Subject: Re: Re-upholstering Seats - LEGENDARY  

Jeff,
  I know Year One has some good stuff, but I've been told that an upolstory 
company in Florida called LEGENDAY makes the best stuff.  I don't have their 
# or address, but someone on the page might return that too us all hopefully 
(I need to do my front buckets).  But, for all I know, Legendary may supply 
Year One.  And if that's the case, Year One may be able to offer you a 
cheaper price than the original company because of the large quantity 
discount they recieve as opposed to just you and me calling up Legenday and 
asking for prices.

                                                         Craig Dobbins
                                                         '68 442 Convertable
>Date:		Wed, 21 Aug 1996 12:09:49 -0300
>From:	Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
>Sender:	oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>To:	"        -         (052)oldsmobile(a)ccn.cs.dal.ca"
> <oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
>Subject:	Re-upholstering Seats
>
>My front bench seat in the 442 could use a new cover, and I see
>that Year One is having a 10% off everything sale this week, so
>I've been considering buying one of their seat covers.  Having
>never done this type of work before, is it that difficult to re-do
>the cover or should I leave it to a professional shop?
>
>Anybody have any comments on the Year One covers?
>They claim they are made from the original vendors
>materials but are a little thicker, presumably for better
>wear protection.  How's the fit and finish when installed?
>
>Is searching for NOS material and having one custom
>sewn a better bet?
>
>-Jeff
>jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
>
>1970 442  4-Speed
>

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 16:42:58 -0300
Subject: Decals 

Try Fusik's in Windsor Locks, CT. Don't have the number but the area
code is (860) or (203). Good guys, good quality, reasonably priced.

I hope they have what you need.
chris fair

------------------------------

From: kissrulz@gnn.com (Craig Dobbins)
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 12:47:05 -0300
Subject: '66 tri-carb on a 425 ci 

Hello all,
  Can anyone tell me if a '66 tr-carb set up will fit on a 425 c.i.  Plenty 
of toroheads here, so I thought one of you guys might be able to tell me.

                                                         Thanks,
                                                           Craig Dobbins

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 18:04:51 -0300
Subject: Re: 455 

     ....I really want to put a 455 into my '64 F-85 deluxe and need to 
     know what model and year Olds would be the best to get it from. Also, 
     I need to know if there are any structural changes I need to make 
     i.e. motor/tranny mounts, frame considerations, steering box 
     location.... 
          
          Eric,
          
          This is about the easiest swap going (assuming you have a 
          330 engine to start with in your 64).  The big and small 
          block Olds motors use identical mounting provisions, so you 
          should be able to simply bolt the 330 motor mounts to the 
          455 and drop it right in.  In addition, the 455 is 
          externally identical to the 400 used on the 65-67 442s 
          (same basic body as your 64).  The trans will also bolt up 
          (I'm guessing you have a Jetaway 2-speed auto), but you 
          would probably rather use a TH400 (ignore that if you have 
          a 4-spd, as it will certainly bolt up assuming your 455 
          crank is drilled for the pilot bearing).
          
          Ok, details:
          
          As noted above, the block mounting locations should be the 
          same.  This puts the motor in the same location, so 
          transmission bolts right up.  Bellhousing bolt pattern is 
          the same.  Note that the 455 uses the newer-style flywheel 
          bolt pattern, so you will need the flexplate or flywheel for 
          a 455.
          
          Get the accessory brackets that go with the 455 also, as the 
          big block is about an inch taller and 1 1/2 inches wider than 
          the small block.  Alternator will bolt up, but you may have a 
          problem with the old style PS pump.  Alternatives are get a 
          newer style pump (as in from the donor car) or get brackets 
          from a 65-67 400 or 425.
          
          You didn't mention what you planned to do for exhaust, but 
          headers for a 65-67 442 will bolt in (ok, as bolt-in as 
          headers get).  You may require some fabrication for your 
          throttle linkage, depending on your choice of carb.  Also, 
          you may have clearance problems with the PB booster.  Get 
          the 442 valve covers which have the "notch" for clearance.  
          This may also be a problem with the A/C unit, if your car is 
          so equiped.
          
          One potential problem is the radiator.  I've never owned a 
          64, but I seem to recall that 64s used downflow radiators 
          (tanks on top and bottom of core), while 65-up used 
          crossflow radiators (tanks on sides).  If your car has the 
          latter, get the largest 4-row core Delta 98 radiator you can 
          find.  If you have a downflow, you will either need to 
          fabricate mounts for the crossflow or have your original 
          radiator modified for a thicker core.
          
          As far as the trans is concerned, as I noted above get a 
          TH400 if you want an auto.  Be sure to get a short tailshaft 
          version.  This should bolt in, as I think your frame should 
          have two sets of crossmember bolt holes.  I would be 
          surprised if your stock driveshaft fits - you will likely 
          need a different yolk.  The original Jetaway is shorter than 
          the TH400 (it's actually the same length at a TH350), so 
          your original driveshaft will also be too long.  You can try 
          to find a correct one (good luck) or just have yours 
          shortened and rebalanced at a driveline shop.  If you want a 
          4-spd, the bellhousing and original trans should bolt up to 
          the 455.  Just get the correct flywheel as noted above.  
          Also, if the 455 was not from a manual trans car originally, 
          it will likely not have the crank drilled for the pilot 
          bearing.
          
          As others have noted, be sure to upgrade the brakes and 
          suspension at the same time.  The 69-72 disc brakes are a 
          bolt-on, or aftermarket kits are available with even larger 
          brakes (and price tags!).  Similarly, add 442 anti-sway bars 
          as a minimum, or if money permits step up to the larger 
          units from such places as HO Racing or Global West 
          Alignment.  You will likely not need new springs unless 
          yours are weak, as the difference in weight between the two 
          motors is less than 100 lbs.
          
          Good Luck
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30
          
          

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 18:07:02 -0300
Subject: Re: '66 tri-carb on a 425 ci 

Hello all,
  Can anyone tell me if a '66 tr-carb set up will fit on a 425 c.i.  Plenty 
of toroheads here, so I thought one of you guys might be able to tell me.
          
                                                         Thanks,
                                                           Craig Dobbins
          
          
          The tri-carb manifold will fit on any Olds big block (400 
          early, 400 late, 425, or 455) as all are the same 
          dimensionally.  Note that the 403 is a SMALL block.
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: Dana Taylor <dmtaylor@pop.tiac.net>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 20:22:00 -0300
Subject: Re: Late model timing Q's

Tom Lentz wrote:
> 
>      I quickly checked the timing two weeks ago on my '84 Hurst/Olds 
> 
>      1) The timing isn't rock steady, it jumps back and forth by about a
>      degree.  Is this cause for alarm?  What could be the cause?  Worn
>      timing chain or something as simple as needing a new cap and rotor?As 
soeone else stated the computer is compensating as the car runs. Also the book 
will tell you to use the coil 
wire as opposed to #1 wire. This gives you average timimg instead of the 
actual. 

> 
>      2) The $%*&ing distributor won't budge!  
Don't know what to tell you! It should move and be removed same as any other 
distributor. It is most likely just stuck. Be careful though.

>      Another small question about computer codes too:  During this process
>        My question is when does this code get set?  The check
>      engine light has never been on that I've seen.   Does this code get set
>      without tripping the light, or was I just not looking at it or perhaps
>      outside the car when it lit and then went out?

The ck engine light doesn't always trip when a code is set although it usually 
does. 
You may just not have been looking. The code gets stored and when the problem
 corrects the light goes back out and the code stays in the computer until you 
reset it.
you can reset the computer by killing power to the computer. The easiest way 
is to disconnect
the connector on the small red wire that is attached to the pos post of your 
batt. If you follow
this wire you will find a fusable link and a connector. Careful you don't 
dammage the link.
 The car will not start if this link is broken. I know as it happened to me on 
an 84 Omega. 
Spent three so days of intermittent trying before i stumbled accross that. It 
was broken inside 
the insulation so i didn't see it.Unhooking the connector for a couple of 
seconds is easier
than unhooking the Batt and upsetting the clock and radio presets if you have 
them. You should 
not keep resetting the computer for no reason though as the computer actually 
'learns' the
 way you drive and you might notice the difference in performance until the 
car has
been driven 8 - 10 miles.

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 09:56:10 -0300
Subject: Olds related

GOD, I LOVE MY OLDS!  What a great car.  Just drove it home from work.
Nothing unusual about the trip, just an awesome car!  

There, I got that off my chest.  Now I feel much better!  Thank you!
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 16:17:18 -0300
Subject: Re: Late model timing Q's 

>Also the book will tell you to use the coil 
>wire as opposed to #1 wire. This gives you average timimg instead of 
>the actual. 

Um, you lost me there. Wouldn't tapping the coil wire give you all
eight cylinder firings? How would this help when spotting the timing
mark? And with coil-in-cap designs, there is no coil wire...

>The easiest way is to disconnect the connector on the small red wire 
>that is attached to the pos post of your batt. If you follow this wire
>you will find a fusible link and a connector. Careful you don't damage
>the link.

There is also a dedicated ECM fuse (I think it's a red 10-amp) in the
fusebox. Pull that for 10-15 seconds and you'll clear the codes. Whether
or not it also kills the Keep Alive Memory I don't know. (Anyone...?)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 17:29:36 -0300
Subject: Re: Toroheads, you gotta read this!

> Interesting to note that my build sheetindicates the 
> Comfortron Control but not the air conditioner.  ???

Doesn't the Comfortron also control heat?  
If so it might make sense.  

 - Travis and the 1960 Olds 98 Convertable aka "Tiny"

- --
Travis McWaters                           Transmission Products Division
tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com               DSC Communications Corporation

------------------------------

From: tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 17:45:18 -0300
Subject: carb cfm's for various engine/rpm combos

What I did was just basic math to determine the theoretical
cfm carb needed for a 'S' size engine running at 'R' rpm.
I did this with my engine, and then generalized it for
other engines.  Keep in mind that this is the "ideal" case,
your mileage may vary.  

I've got a 455 cu.in. engine.  So that translates to a 0.26 cu.ft.
engine ( 1728 cu.in. = 1 cu.ft. ) So in *two* full revolutions
( I forgot that at first ) the engine will have displaced 0.26 cu.ft. 
of air/fuel.  Consequently in one revolution it will displace half of 
that, 0.13 cu.ft.

The peak RPM by factory spec's (which is probably faster than I'll
ever run the engine) is something like 6000 RPM.  Soooo... if I 
take my 6000 RPM and multiply by 0.13 cf / revolution, I get 
6000 x 0.13 = 780 cfm.

I know from memory that most of these engines came out of the
factory with 750cfm or 800cfm QuardaJet's, so the numbers 
would seem to match up.  That makes me _think_ I did it more
or less right.

So to generalize the formula I've come up with is
   let S be the engine size in cu.in.
   let R be the peak RPM you want to run the engine

   Then the C, the cfm for your carb, should be given by
       C = ( ( S / 1728 ) 2 ) * R

   or to clean up the calculation
           S * R
       C = -----
           3456

To test it a bit more, I ran it for other sizes I saw mentioned 
on the list recently.  Here are the results...


     R = 3000 3500 4000 4500 5000 5500 6000 6500 7000 7500 8000 8500 
        +-----------------------------------------------------------
S = 305 | 265  309  353  397  441  485  530  574  618  662  706  750  
    350 | 304  354  405  456  506  557  608  658  709  760  810  861
    368 | 319  373  426  479  532  586  639  692  745  799  852  905
    405 | 352  410  469  527  586  645  703  762  820  879  938  996
    425 | 369  430  492  553  615  676  738  799  861  922  984 1045
    455 | 395  461  527  592  658  724  790  856  922  987 1053 1119


 - Travis and the 1969 Olds 98 Convertable aka "Tiny"

- --
Travis McWaters                           Transmission Products Division
tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com               DSC Communications Corporation

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 17:43:04 -0300
Subject: Re: Source for emission decal 69 442 

I can help you.  There is a guy by the name of Mark Cornea
and his handle is Dr. Decal.  He has a license to reproduce 
every decal made for Oldsmobiles.  He is located here in 
Michingan.  I just looked in his catalog and he has your 
decal.

His address is 
Mark Cornea Reproductions
P.O. Box 748
Dearborn Heights, MI 48127

Go ahead and ask him for a catalog he sells quality decals and sales
literature
for the discriminating restorer 1935-1994.


W MACHINES (mark prince)

------------------------------

From: "Mike Coccagna" <mikec@oz.kis.net>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 19:02:24 -0300
Subject: Re: Exhaust shop recommendations

Todd,

If you don't mind a small trip, I've heard Freestate Automotive, in 
Frederick does good work.  I can get the address and the phone number 
for you if you want. 

I've also heard of a place on Connecticut Ave.  I'll try and get more 
info for you.....

Mike
'91 W-40 Quad442

> Todd Morris wrote:
> > 
> > Listpeople in the Wash,DC metro area--can anybody recommend a good
> > exhaust shop.  Show quality not needed, just a shop that does
> > solid performance oriented work at reasonable price. thanks
> > 
> > Todd Morris
> > 71 442

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 18:22:03 -0300
Subject: Re: Re-upholstering Seats

On Wed, 21 Aug 1996, Nick DiGiovanni wrote:
> The seat skins that year one sells are made by PUI.  These are supposed to
> be the best on the market for correct apperance, shape, texture, fit etc...

Not to disagree with Nick, but we just had this discussion this past
weekend when the Olds Lugnuts up here got together with Jim Chermack. 
According to the discussion (to which I could contribute zip, since I've
never bought an interior kit, whereas everyone else has, sometimes several
times) there are two manufacturuers of Olds interior kits: PUI, and Crown
(or Krown, not sure which). Apparently Crown made many of the original
upholstery sets for Olds in the 60's and 70's. The concensus was that
Crown's stuff was superior, although for certain years and types either
one or the other firm is the only source. Either was good, but it was a
matter of degree in subtle things like depth of grain, color matching, and
so on.

Apparently Fusick's deals with both outfits. PUI seems to be better known
because they advertise more. If you're going to buy this stuff it might be
worth giving Fusick's or Specialty Olds in Florida a call. They usually
give fair opinions on their stuff. Numbers are on Bryceman's page. I tend
to stay away from Year One mostly due to price these days. 

I understand that Legendary Interiors tends to specialize in makes other 
than Olds, specifically Mopar.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 10:56:35 -0300
Subject: Re: Late model timing Q's

At 08:22 PM 8/21/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Also the book will tell you to use the coil 
>wire as opposed to #1 wire. This gives you average timimg instead of the
>actual.

Huh??  If you hook the sensor on your timing light to the coil wire, it will
'flash' on every cylinder (every time the coil, uh, fires) instead of just
on #1.  Makes it kinda hard to see that timing mark (and it's hard enough to
see already!)  The instructions for your timing light probably say to hook
the sensor to the #1 plug wire, as close to the distribitor as possible.  Do
it that way.  Don't hook it to the coil wire.  Doesn't work good that way.
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 21:27:35 -0300
Subject: Re: '66 tri-carb on a 425 ci

Craig Dobbins wrote:
> 
> Can anyone tell me if a '66 tr-carb set up will fit on a 425 c.i.  
> Plenty of toroheads here, so I thought one of you guys might be able to 
> tell me.

Dunno.  They don't fit under our hoods so we don't use 'em.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 21:31:55 -0300
Subject: Re: Toroheads, you gotta read this!

tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com wrote:
> 
> Doesn't the Comfortron also control heat?

Yup.

> If so it might make sense.

Maybe.  But the car came with air and I don't know if I've ever seen a 
Comfortron without it.


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: DELPROPO@emuvax.emich.edu
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 18:33:18 -0300
Subject: Re: 1968-69 olds parts wanted!!!! 

How much for the wheels and what state are you in?..

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 18:59:29 -0300
Subject: Comfortron 

My 66 98 convert. never had air, but I studied up on this part of the manual
to figure out how much hassle it woudl be to put it in. What I learned is
that they made two systems:

1) manually controlled a/c and heating system
2) comfortron heating and a/c system

The principal difference is that the comfortron took electronic impulses from
a transducer located in the cabin to measure the difference between the 
desired temperature and the actual cabin temperature. Then it directed the
heating or a/c parts of the system to do their thing to correct for the 
difference, if any. 

Maybe it worked well, but it looked like it depended on a lot of tender parts
that by now would be well worn -- vacuum hoses, ports, electronic bits, etc.
Also I haven't come across comfortrons too often in the big oldses, they have
a different control plate than standard and the transducer is real obvious
in its location in the dash.

If you have a comfortron, I'd suggest you find a Caddy of your year or similar
for bits and pieces. They were more common in those cars, particularly well
optioned ones. That's all I know, hope it helps!
chris fair

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 17:49:22 -0300
Subject: Re: Toroheads, you gotta read this! 

>> Doesn't the Comfortron also control heat?
>
>Yup.
>
>> If so it might make sense.
>
>Maybe.  But the car came with air and I don't know if I've ever seen a 
>Comfortron without it.

Anyone got an owner's manual for the year in question? That should
settle it...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 14:16:19 -0300
Subject: Re: Woodward Dream Cruise with thanks (long)

> 
> ...of course I got so hyped up I ended up getting a speeding
> ticket on the way back to work.
> 

> Robert Lawrence   


Bob:

With all that excitement, how do you remember a little thing like a 
ticket? 

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: eric_b_buckner@non-hp-om.cv.hp.com
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 19:21:33 -0300
Subject: alarm bells

Item Subject: cc:Mail Text
     Don't worry, 
     Got all the info I need as well as polaroids of both cars together and 
     the security report. Besides, he works about 100 yards from me. 
     
     Thanx for the concern
     Eric

------------------------------

From: Robert Whitaker <whitaker.rob@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 19:32:15 -0300
Subject: Re: Re-upholstering Seats -Reply

I put front seat covers, purchased from Year One, on my 69 H/O this spring.
I hadn't done any re-upholstery work prior to this.  Even Year One
recommends getting a professional upholstery shop to do this, but I read
several do-it-yourself magazine articles before starting to build
confidence.  If you have lots of patience and lots of hog rings (get twice
more than Year One recommends)any reasonably talented auto mechanic type can
do this.  The end result is they look absolutely great!  Exactly like
factory original.  I was very pleased with the quality of the seat covers.

Robert Whitaker
69 H/O 455


At 05:56 PM 8/21/96 +0000, you wrote:
>>>> <Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com> 08/21/96 09:09am >>>
>>Having never done this type of work before, is it that difficult to re-do the
>>cover or should I leave it to a professional shop?
>
>>Anybody have any comments on the Year One covers?
>
>I've never bought a seat cover from Year One, and I've actually never
>replaced a seat cover.  But I do know what's entailed in doing it.  You'll
>need a hog-ring pliers and a bunch of hog-rings (the seat covers may come
>with the hog-rings, but you'll probably have to buy the pliers separate.)  
It's
>pretty much just a matter of removing the old seat cover and putting the
>new one back one.  Of course, if your foam is torn or rotten, you'll most
>likely have to have that replaced by an upholstery shop.  I don't think Year
>One sells those.  I believe, on the bench seats at least, there are two layers
>of foam.  If just the top layer is damaged, you're in pretty good shape.
If the
>lower layer is destroyed, it could get expensive.  The seat covers should
>come with complete instructions.
>  
>>Is searching for NOS material and having one custom sewn a better bet?
>
>First, I doubt you could find actual NOS material.  And second, I'm sure it
>would be twice the cost of Year One's Do-It-Yourself covers.  Call around
>to your local upholstery shops and compare.  Hopefully someone here has
>bought a Year One cover and can comment on the quality/ease of
>installation...  Good Luck
>
>-Blaine
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: glenn connors <gpc442@buffnet.net>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 14:54:18 -0300
Subject: Re: Hood hinge Restoration

>My next small detailing job is going to be the hood hinges. At car shows many
>people paint them black, and to this day mine have also been black. From
>viewing other cars, realized  the hinges are not painted but were left 
natural.
>I feel if I sand blast then that they will become shiny and not have that flat
>dull look they are to have. Also what type of coating (clear, Paint) works 
well
>in getting the orriginal look.....Thanks....
>,
>cars the 
>
>
I've had excellent results in detailing my hood hinges by first
sandblasting, which by the way leaves that rough finish that you would be
looking for. (note...not bead blasting)  Then right after sandblasting,
(don't let them sit too long as they will begin to rust in short time) I
then put 4 coats of Rustoleum Clear Satin on them and they came out great.

Glenn
'69 4-4-2

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 19:59:52 -0300
Subject: Re: Northern Ohio Olds Show

On Mon, 19 Aug 1996, Jason P. Labay wrote:

> Ok so who all is attending this show Sunday? I just called today and got the


My hand is up.  I'll be driving my red '75 Delta 88 convertible.  I'm 
planning to arrive about 11 a.m.  (It's 160 miles from here).

I'll look for you.



Dan Gulino

------------------------------

From: michel@avn-net.com (Michel Losier)
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 15:14:41 -0300
Subject: Transmission

I have an 1986 Olds Delta 88 Royal Braugham.  My transmission always clunks
between the first and second gears.  I was just wondering what might be
causing this, if anyone knows, mail-me please.

Also when I start my car, the motor idles up and down quite a bit for the
first 3 to 5 minutes, I'm concerned about this also.


Michel Losier        Toronto, Ontario, Canada           '86 Delta 88 RB
michel@avn-net.com

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 22:23:27 -0300
Subject: Re: Comfortron

Chris Fair wrote:
> 
> Maybe it worked well, but it looked like it depended on a lot of tender 
> parts that by now would be well worn -- vacuum hoses, ports, electronic 
> bits, etc.

Yup it do.  And a source of constant annoyance to those of us who have 
to maintain them.

> ...and the transducer is real obvious in its location in the dash.

Oh, I don't know.  In my Toronado, its behind a little vent-looking thing 
on the dash top center.  Not very noticable.

The 66 Toro and Mike

- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 20:10:08 -0300
Subject: Re: Harmonic balancers

I don't believe a quality harmonic balancer can take hte place of engine 
balancing...and neither does the manufacturer of Fluidamprs..they 
purposely build a removable counterweight into their balancers so that 
the assembly could be balanced....balancing not only matches the weight 
of the rods and pistons to each other, but also the counterweights on the 
crank are modified..i noticed on the crank that I got back from balancing 
that they drilled some counterweights and welded some holes...i think a 
performance balancer is a very important piece to have in any case if the 
engine is to see over 5000rpm (approx. rpm at which the factory balancer 
stops doing anything).  For 455's the cast crank coupled with the long 
long stroke and the heavy weight of the internal parts mean increased 
vibration over a short stroke engine, so the balancer would be all the 
more necessary.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 20:15:33 -0300
Subject: Head bolts vs. head studs

This is a question for those running high performance engines and 
especially nitrous oxide.  On an olds 455, how much difference does it 
make whether you run head bolts or studs?  I've heard conflicting reports 
that go either way, and i do know that removing a head with studs while 
in the caris a bunch more work than one with bolts.  On a motor that 
won't see much past 6000rpm off nitrous, and even less than that on 
nitrous, will head bolts keep the head gasket intact?  I'd rather run 
bolts if possible...

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 23:24:07 -0300
Subject: Re: Resto  Tips  .....

JJF97@uno.cc.geneseo.edu wrote:
> 
> On your stock speaker(s) there are 2 tabs.  Attach speaker wire to it
> and run it to the glove box.  

I would add that you should disconnect your old radio from the speakers 
and not hook both systems up to the same speakers.  You never know what 
the output of the old radio is like and your new one might not find it 
agreeable.

Also watch the polarity on hooking up speakers: plus to plus, etc. or 
you'll end up with lousy bass response. 
(the red-dot on some speakers = plus)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 20:21:13 -0300
Subject: F-M engine bearings

A little birdie once told me something to the effect that Federal Mogul 
engine bearings are not good for Oldsmobile engines.  Now, seeing as how 
F-M bearings are the same as Sealed Power and TRW bearings (I've also 
heard they are the same as Clevite/Michigan 77 bearings and Speed Pro 
bearings), how can this be? has anyone run into problems with these bearings?

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 20:33:15 -0300
Subject: Re: Everyone could read this.

I don't agree. I believe I do my best to keep my use of bandwidth down so 
I will splurge this once to post this message.  A while back Chris Urban 
and a precious few others discussed formation of another group to 
separate Olds performance from Olds restoration.  I believe the intent 
was to cut down on all the chatter and needless postings in the main 
group, most of which happens to be centered around restoration (probably 
just a coincidence).  But the bottom line is, indeed this group has got a 
heck of a lot of needless postings and chatter.  My mailbox routinely 
runs up between 400-800 messages on account of this list, and a great 
deal of them are one or two line responses to a 50-line reply.  Now 
everyone does indeed have the right to say what they want but do we 
really need all the "me-too"'s and "that's a good one"'s?  

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: Dana and Mary Taylor <dmtaylor@pop.tiac.net>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 23:46:29 -0300
Subject: Re: Late model timing Q's

> 
> Um, you lost me there. Wouldn't tapping the coil wire give you all
> eight cylinder firings? How would this help when spotting the timing
> mark? And with coil-in-cap designs, there is no coil wire...
>Andrew:
Sorry brain cramp, I have been working on too many front wheel drives.
you are right on coil wire. on the FWD 4 and 6 cyl olds (in fact all GM) 
you do use the coil wire. Try it and see hoe easy it is to see the mark. 
this is called ave timing.
 Not to bore folks I will quote excerpts from manual:
This is from a 1881 - 1988  manual. on v6 engines disconect the 4 
terminal EST connector at the distribitor before timing the engine. On V8 
engines ground the diagnostic terminal of the 12 terminal ALCL.
 Connect te tac and adjust engine speed to specifications. 
 Connect a timing light, loosen the distributor mounting bol, and turn 
the distributor until the specified timing is obtained......
 To clear ECM memory remove the ECM fuse from the fuse block on V6 
engines.If equiped with a V8 engine unground the diagnostic terminal with 
the engine still running(If done before engine is shut off no trouble 
codes will be stored. 
 Remove the plug from the vacuum hose fitting and install and connect the 
hose if so equiped.

Sorry for any confusion I may have caused.

> 
> There is also a dedicated ECM fuse (I think it's a red 10-amp) in the
> fusebox. Pull that for 10-15 seconds and you'll clear the codes. My manual 
says only on V6's

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 20:35:49 -0300
Subject: Re: Everyone should read this.

One more clarifications and this is the last wasted bandwidth on this 
subject you'll hear from me.  I subscribe to a mailing list specifically 
to AVOID the mindless babble on newsgroups.  Keeping the "babble" down is 
something I am all in favor of, and I am sure there are others out there 
who think the same way.  Speak for yourself when you downplay the 
importance of conserving bandwidth.  Time is priceless.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 20:48:03 -0300
Subject: Re: Vent cover and hood questions (98 1964 4DHT Holiday sports sedan)

On Wed, 21 Aug 1996, Esko Ilola wrote:

> Hi everybody.
> 
> The headache:
>    On the passenger side vent cover there is
>    a one-way vent that passes the chamber gases
>    into carburetor air intake. This vent has
>    a place for a small diameter hose (vacuum?) in
>    addition to that large breathing tube.
>    Unfortunately this hose is out, visiting
>    it's cousins somewhere and I can't contact it
>    and ask: "Where should you put the other end?".
>    Somebody please tell me the story of this hose'.

This is a vacuum line and it should connect somewhere around the base of 
the carburetor.  Look for an open vacuum line connector sticking out 
somewhere.  It looks like a small tube with a flared end.

> 
>    I have removed the ventile covers and painted them
>    BLACK after hours of cleaning. I really miss that
>    sand-blowing machine I used to have.....
>    There is no problem in painting them again with
>    the correct colour; the only problem is, WHAT
>    COLOUR. The covers had a silver paint on them
>    and I'm sure that was not the original colour.

According to the 1964 Olds Service manuals, your engine should be RED.  
All 1964 98's were equipped with a 394 cubic inch V-8 and 4-bbl carburetor.


> 
>    I'm intending to put the covers back this
>    afternoon (about the time you guys wake up for
>    your breakfast). I have new sealings and the
>    washers for the screws. Should I apply any
>    silicone somewhere or are the sealings good
>    as they are? The covers are not misformed.
>    What I'm asking is that you let your morning
>    coffee cool down and answer my silly question.

I would use just use the gaskets as they are with perhaps some adhesive 
to hold them in place as you position the valve covers, insert the 
screws, and tighten them down.


>    The driver side near-headlight is pointing too
>    high. How can it be lowered. I have studied
>    my shop-manual and pushed my head into the motor
>    compartment with no answer. I am not willing to
>    disassemble the whole grille, just a simple lamp
>    adjustment would do fine.

You most certainly do NOT remove the grille to adjust the headlamps!  :)


Remove the chromed trim ring first.  There should be a single screw at 
about the 7 o'clock or 5 o'clock position (depending on which side of 
the car you are on).  The ring then comes off by rotating it upward so 
that it unhooks.  You'll see what I mean when you do it.  

After removing the trim ring, you should see adjusting screws.  There'll 
be one on the top to adjust the vertical position, and one on the left or 
right to adjust horizontal.  Turn these screws in or out to effect your 
adjustment.  Note that these are NOT the screws that you would remove to 
replace the headlamp itself.



> 
>    There is a car identifying plate on the opening
>    of the driver door. Is there another plate somewhere
>    else? 
> 

The one on the door jamb is the Vehicle Identification Number (VIN).  If you 
tell me what it is, I can 
decode it for you.  About the only interesting thing it'll tell you is 
where your car was built.

There should be another plate under the hood just in front of the cowl, 
perhaps on the passenger side.  If you tell me what those numbers and 
letters are, I can perhaps help decode them to.  At least it should be 
possible to determine the original color sheme your car had when it left 
the factory, in case it's been painted a different color since then.




Dan Gulino

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 20:54:21 -0300
Subject: Re: The hood insulation pad, winter tires and delete button

On Wed, 21 Aug 1996, Esko Ilola wrote:

> I have a hood insulation pad which is a bad
> condition. Every time I check the transmission
> fluid, I get my soulder dirty just by touching
> it. That is not the purpose of this piece of
> material.

That'll teach you to check the transmission fluid!  :)

It's main purpose is to deaden the sound of the engine so that the car is 
quieter at highway speeds.

> 
> What material is it anyway ?

I don't know.

> 
> What would be the original colour for my car ?

Black, I would think.  Fusick Automotive sells these, new, for about 
$25.  

> 
> In my shop manual there exists many handy-looking tools.
> These tools are identified by a code J....xxxyz.
> Where could I get these tools?
> 

I've seen these in the shop manual, too.  I would think that the most 
likely place is from swap meet vendors.  I've never seen them advertised 
anywhere, though.  I would think that Olds dealers would have had them back 
when these cars were new, but most would probably have either long since 
discarded them, sold them to old car people, or gave them away.



Dan Gulino

------------------------------

From: Ken <rottin@coil.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 21:14:56 -0300
Subject: Needed: Frame for 1967 442 Convertible

  I am in desperate need of a frame in good condition for my 1967 442 
Convertible.
I have called all the junkyards I could find in N.E. Ohio with no luck. I am 
willing to travel to
MI,PA,NY,IN to find one. Can anyone point me in the right direction? 

Thanks,
Ken
1967 442 Convertible (with a busted frame!)
Cleveland, Oh

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 21:12:49 -0300
Subject: Apology from Senko (fwd)

I received the following message today from Drew Senko who asked me to 
forward it to all of you. 

No further discussion of this matter on the list, please, as per my 
message of yesterday. Any comments are to be taken to private email. 

Case closed.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 12:11:12 -0300
From: drew <senko@reston.ans.net>
To: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Subject: Apology from Senko


Well, I really didn't intend to involve the whole list in this mess.
I admit that what I did was not called for.  I should not have sent
the message to Joanne that I sent.  In addition, upon re-reading, I think
the tone was improper.

Joanne, I apologize to you.  I am sorry, and it was not my intention to
force you or anyone else off the list.

I apologize to the list also, since it became involved.  I had a bad day
yesterday, but I don't expect that to make up for anything.  Again, I am
sorry.  It's true that my diplomacy and patience could use some work.
Please accept my apologies.

Please send any followup discussions on this topic to senko@reston.ans.net
and not to the list.
- --
Drew Senko

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 21:32:04 -0300
Subject: RE: Head bolts vs. head studs

Well in this case its sort of your weakest link in a chain. The studs =
will definetly provide more clamping force, but the head gasket is just =
as important. A good quality gasket is absolutely essential when the =
cylinder pressures get up there. Whether studs are needed to run =
nitrous, not really if all your doing is hitting it with a small amount =
say 100hp system, but if you go up form there the Olds needs all the =
help it can get.

- ----------
From: 	Paul R. K. Kuromoto[SMTP:suntzu@ohana.com]
Sent: 	Wednesday, August 21, 1996 7:15 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Head bolts vs. head studs

This is a question for those running high performance engines and=20
especially nitrous oxide.  On an olds 455, how much difference does it=20
make whether you run head bolts or studs?  I've heard conflicting =
reports=20
that go either way, and i do know that removing a head with studs while=20
in the caris a bunch more work than one with bolts.  On a motor that=20
won't see much past 6000rpm off nitrous, and even less than that on=20
nitrous, will head bolts keep the head gasket intact?  I'd rather run=20
bolts if possible...

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 21:26:57 -0300
Subject: RE: Harmonic balancers

True true Paul. I've noticed that almost all Old s engines require large =
amounts of metal taken out of the crank to get the assembly balanced =
properly. I actually surprised that they run as well as they do form the =
factory. I guess those guys really figured that the engines would be =
driven by little old men.

- ----------
From: 	Paul R. K. Kuromoto[SMTP:suntzu@ohana.com]
Sent: 	Wednesday, August 21, 1996 7:10 PM
To: 	BobH592058@aol.com
Cc: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Re: Harmonic balancers

I don't believe a quality harmonic balancer can take hte place of engine =

balancing...and neither does the manufacturer of Fluidamprs..they=20
purposely build a removable counterweight into their balancers so that=20
the assembly could be balanced....balancing not only matches the weight=20
of the rods and pistons to each other, but also the counterweights on =
the=20
crank are modified..i noticed on the crank that I got back from =
balancing=20
that they drilled some counterweights and welded some holes...i think a=20
performance balancer is a very important piece to have in any case if =
the=20
engine is to see over 5000rpm (approx. rpm at which the factory balancer =

stops doing anything).  For 455's the cast crank coupled with the long=20
long stroke and the heavy weight of the internal parts mean increased=20
vibration over a short stroke engine, so the balancer would be all the=20
more necessary.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 21:33:02 -0300
Subject: RE: F-M engine bearings

That birdie is full of it. They are all excellent bearings.

- ----------
From: 	Paul R. K. Kuromoto[SMTP:suntzu@ohana.com]
Sent: 	Wednesday, August 21, 1996 7:21 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	F-M engine bearings

A little birdie once told me something to the effect that Federal Mogul 
engine bearings are not good for Oldsmobile engines.  Now, seeing as how 
F-M bearings are the same as Sealed Power and TRW bearings (I've also 
heard they are the same as Clevite/Michigan 77 bearings and Speed Pro 
bearings), how can this be? has anyone run into problems with these bearings?

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 21:39:38 -0300
Subject: 255/70 tires? and replacing map light? 

OK, I'm going to get new tires soon, but I lost the post about someone
(Sparky?) getting a specific brand of tires (General?) in the size of
255/70-15" that they were happy with. Does anyone have a copy of the post,
or remember that brand of tire, or _have_ those tires? 

There aren't many made in that size, and the T/A radials that are available
in that size are an older-design; I'd like something more modern, but most
modern tires only go up to 235/70 in 15".

On a brighter note (literally), I got the dash lamp for my Comfortron
controls to work; the bulb socket was all mangled and just hanging behind
the dash; that and some other disconnected things indicate someone was back
there trying to fix (break) something. Now just the clock light and the
mirror-mounted map light need replacing.

Which brings up my next question; *how* in the world do you ever replace the
bulb in the rear-view mirror? I popped off the plastic lens, but I'd never
be able to stick a tool or finger in there to remove the old bulb, and a
fuse-puller doesn't fit either. Does the glass come off? Or do I need a $50
J-xxx tool to do this? The old bulb is a 563, a cylinder with little wire
loops on the end that hook over the terminals inside the mirror; doesn't
look fun, whatever the proper procedure is. Oh yeah, the '69 shop manual is
silent about this; does the body manual cover this?

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 21:41:27 -0300
Subject: RE: Needed: Frame for 1967 442 Convertible

Willing to come to Canada I can get you one.

- ----------
From: 	Ken[SMTP:rottin@coil.com]
Sent: 	Wednesday, August 21, 1996 8:14 PM
To: 	'oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca'
Subject: 	Needed: Frame for 1967 442 Convertible


  I am in desperate need of a frame in good condition for my 1967 442 
Convertible.
I have called all the junkyards I could find in N.E. Ohio with no luck. I am 
willing to travel to
MI,PA,NY,IN to find one. Can anyone point me in the right direction? 

Thanks,
Ken
1967 442 Convertible (with a busted frame!)
Cleveland, Oh

------------------------------

From: Cdrpaulson@aol.com
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 21:43:29 -0300
Subject: Re: Radiator Paint 

Since EVERYONE is entitled to my opinion, here it is:

The Eastwood Company
580 Lancaster Ave, Box
Malvern, PA  19355-0714
To order: 1-800-345-1178

Contact them and they can send you a catalog.  This is THE BEST single source
for automotive detail paints out there.  Yes, you can probably do your
research and find equivalent local paints at a cheaper price, but why bother?
 The specialty paints supplied by Eastwood have undergone tons of research
already, trust me.  They have  a special radiator paint that does everything
you need.  Why'll you're at it, check out the other stuff.  Believe me, it's
all very good and has never let me down.

Next for you rusto-resto types out there, check out:
POR-15@Restomotive Laboratories
P.O. Box 
Morristown, NJ    
1-800-457-6715

In addition to some of the rust specialty paints, they have what is probably
considered THE BEST rust preventers available.  In fact, I intend to use
POR-15's "Rust Preventive Paint" to treat my frame.  You will also need their
"Rust Remover/Pre-Primer" as a treatment before applying the paint.  For
inside the frame rails, I will use a phosphate treatment "OSPHO" available at
fine local paint stores and/or POR-15's rust remover, and then apply
Eastwood's "Heavy Duty Anti-Rust" with a special gun from Eastwood.  The Anti
Rust can be applied to painted surfaces where the POR-15 can't.  I suggest
"OSPHO" type treatment and then normal primers for surface rust and
POR-15/Eastwood products for pitted or rusted through surfaces.  There's
really a lot more to this story so I suggest you obtain the catalogs and read
what they have to say.

One more thing: 
For those of you doing restos on (in particular) A-body "Muscle Cars" (mine's
a 70 442 conv) I suggest you pick up a copy of "How To Restore Your
Musclecar" by Greg Donahue and Paul Zazarine - two widely known restoration
experts.  This is a Motorbooks Int'l publication available via book sources
contained in places such as "Hemmings."  Also, DO NOT EVER DO ANYTHING REALLY
SERIOUS TO YOUR CAR WITHOUT THE CORRECT SERVICE MANUAL.  'Nuff said.

Steve (told ya you were entitled to my opinion!) Paulson 
70 442 Conv, in 2,452 parts

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 23:01:00 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds related

I hear you. I thought the same thing last night while leaving a car show. I
just love my 80 442. The looks that I get while driving this car  are
something else. I thought I loved my Z/28....that faded quick after getting
in this car:)

At 09:56 AM 8/21/96 -0300, Dave Paulison wrote:
>GOD, I LOVE MY OLDS!  What a great car.  Just drove it home from work.
>Nothing unusual about the trip, just an awesome car!  
>
>There, I got that off my chest.  Now I feel much better!  Thank you!
>--
>Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
>dpauliso@metrolink.net
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com)
1988 IROC Z/28...............salvage yard special
1980  4-4-2 W-30.............1 of  886       OCA#027572

1975 Hurst/Olds W-25...1 of 2535  H/OCA#0278A             
Just what the doctor ordered....those awesome W-Machines.

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 23:08:10 -0300
Subject: Re: Northern Ohio Olds Show

Good, I will be looking for the Delta 88. If anyone else wrote and told me
they are going I missed it. I lost a big chunck of mail last night when
lightning ruined my hard disk. Hope the weather holds up for Sunday.

At 07:59 PM 8/21/96 -0300, Daniel Gulino wrote:

>My hand is up.  I'll be driving my red '75 Delta 88 convertible.  I'm 
>planning to arrive about 11 a.m.  (It's 160 miles from here).
>
>I'll look for you.
>
>
>
>Dan Gulino
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com)
1988 IROC Z/28...............salvage yard special
1980  4-4-2 W-30.............1 of  886       OCA#027572

1975 Hurst/Olds W-25...1 of 2535  H/OCA#0278A             
Just what the doctor ordered....those awesome W-Machines.

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 23:13:51 -0300
Subject: Re: Toroheads, you gotta read this! 

In a message dated 96-08-21 10:56:52 EDT, you write:

<<  Can't imagine that someone would put up the money to buy one of those 
 > expensive cars and not have air. >>

I bought a '67 out a salvage yard once for the interior.  Was loaded with
power windows, seat, door locks, antenna, trunk, tilt/tele, cruise, defog,
wonderbar.  Was purchased new by a very old lady.  Used to be a nice car,
only had 33000 miles,  was dark green with a black vinyl top and parchment
interior (was mint).  She tore the front end off when she pulled out in front
of a semi truck.

Talked to the dealer where this car was sold new.  He said she came with one
day with the rear bumper pulled out (as apposed to being pushed in, like in
an accident).  He asked her what happened, she said she didn't know, was
pulling out of her gravel driveway and the car didn't want to go, she just
kept feeding it more gas until it broke loose.  Dealer figures she must have
gotten the bumper stuck on a tree stump or something.

Another story he told me was about time she called him from New York state.
 She went to visit her sister.  Had just had her car in for service.  She
called from New York and gave him hell because her Toro wouldn't go any
faster than 85 mph.  He told her she shouldn't be driving that fast to begin
with.  She told him it was none of his damn business and was bringing the
Toro in when she got back and wanted it fixed.  The problem: evidently the
mechanic had bumped the cruise on/off switch to "on" while he was working on
it.  The cruise thumbwheel was set around 85 mph and the "speedminder" was
putting return pressure on the gas and she wasn't strong enough to push past
it.

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 23:14:09 -0300
Subject: Re: Transmission 

In a message dated 96-08-21 19:20:18 EDT, you write:

<< I have an 1986 Olds Delta 88 Royal Braugham.  My transmission always
clunks
 between the first and second gears.  I was just wondering what might be
 causing this, if anyone knows, mail-me please.

Uh-Oh, transmission ghosts!  These cars are notorious for tranny problems.
 Worked in a dealership, saw alot of tranny problems -- some right off the
truck!    We had some customer that had 3, 4, 5 even 6 trannies put in their
cars.  The faithful owners that Olds didn't p/o with their Diesel engines got
screwed on these trannies.  Most of our customers went to Buick & Cadillac.
 Some where diehard Olds owners and they took their lumps and stayed with us.
 When I was seriously thinking about a used 88 or 98, I bought a Sedan
DeVille (with that wonderful HT4100 engine (HT stands for Hook & Tow).  It's
interesting that Olds used the same engine/transmission components as Pontiac
& Buick, but I don't know that I've ever seen a FWD Bonneville at our
dealership with a tranny problem.  As far as I know Buicks are pretty
reliable too.  Something in those Oldsmobiles is really wrong though.

OK,  my dad's '86 w/roughly 115000 miles is doing the same thing as yours.
 Has been for about 6 mos.  His answer is to let up on the throttle when he
knows its gonna shift from 1 to 2 (like an old Fluid Drive) and it shifts
smooth.  He claims he'll drive it this way till the wheels fall off, which
ought to be any day now.  I know this doesn't help you, althought it may save
some more serious damage till you get it repaired.  One note of advice from
him - DON'T attempt passing gear.  Dad took his to a tranny shop and they
suggested a complete rebuild.  Seems to me that a complete rebuild isn't
neccessary, only to fix what's broke.  But with these trannies, another part
could go tomorrow and this repair would be a waste.  We had our tranny
replaced w/a factory rebuilt (SERTA) at another Olds dealer after he bought
it (1990 w/roughly 42000 miles).  Dealer covered it under warranty w/ $100
deductible.  I bitched about none of these trannies being any good, knowing
there were many around with problems as well, and the deductible was waived.
 Our '90 tranny has all the factory updates.  Far as I know the '90 and up
models don't have tranny problems as a rule.  I remember when the new '91 98
came out.  Everyone at the dealership thought they were such a pretty car,
but the guys in the shop said it a shame they were gonna have tranny problems
- -- they were wrong.  As of spring '94 we saw no pattern of problems like we
did with older models.  FWIW, I think the shifting problem you're talking
about is in the front pump assembly, but I was just a warranty claims
processor, not a transmission tech.
 
Paul
- -You are not alone-
  >>

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 23:14:02 -0300
Subject: Re: The hood insulation pad, winter tires and delete button 

In a message dated 96-08-21 08:59:35 EDT, you write:

>I have a hood insulation pad which is a bad
>condition. Every time I check the transmission
>fluid, I get my soulder dirty just by touching
>it. That is not the purpose of this piece of
>material.
 
>What material is it anyway ?
 
>What would be the original colour for my car ?

Some of these come in gray, some come in a beige or yellow like color.  Cars
I have seen of that age use the beige.
 
>Does any of you northern guys have idea of
>what kind of tires to use ?

I prefer the round kind myself.  Some people like the flat kind, I guess
they're OK if the flat part is on the top.

Paul

Paul
  >>

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 23:13:58 -0300
Subject: Re: Toroheads, you gotta read this! 

In a message dated 96-08-21 16:37:58 EDT, you write:

<< Doesn't the Comfortron also control heat?  
 If so it might make sense.   >>

Yes this is true.  You had one of three choices

First, C60 Four Season Air Conditioner

B, C60 Comfortron Air Conditioner

or 3, none of the above (standard heater)

this isn't really true though, you had a 4th choice too, C48 heater and
defroster delete.

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 23:14:04 -0300
Subject: Re: Resto Tips ..... 

In a message dated 96-08-21 13:23:23 EDT, you write:

<<  continuous play tape of 48 oldsmobile commercials and 
 radio shows) >>

Ever thought about making copies of this and selling them?  Maybe I could
trade you a copy of my Merry Oldsmobile tape - recording of an Olds reel to
reel tape, plays 26 different versions of In My Merry Oldsmobile - you'll be
singing it in your sleep.

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 23:13:59 -0300
Subject: Re: Northern Ohio Olds Show 

In a message dated 96-08-21 19:07:27 EDT, you write:

<< Ok so who all is attending this show Sunday? I just called today and got
the
 
 
 My hand is up. >>

So's mine.  We'll be coming out Saturday nite.  Be there prolly first thing
Sunday morn.  Don't know what I'll have there yet.  One of two choices:  '67
98 Holiday Coupe, Turquoise, big dent in fender or '72 C/S conv., yellow
w/white top, lots of rust.
Which one do you think they'll throw me out in?

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 23:14:04 -0300
Subject: Re: 455+ 

In a message dated 96-08-21 15:16:32 EDT, you write:

<< You _have_ got a police report on
 this, yes?  >>

Around here, police will not come to the scene of an accident, make out
report or place blame unless one of the parties is injured of one of the
vehicles can't be moved under it's own power.  They MAY come out if there's a
question of a violation.  How they know if there's a violation if they don't
come out is beyond me.  I went thru this a year and a half ago and was really
pissed.  This 16 year old kid had a half dozen witnesses who said I was
driving on the wrong side of the road, I had no one.  A police officer would
have been able to tell from the position of the vehicles and direction of the
damage that he was in the middle of the road.

Don't we live in a great country?

Paul
(who was robbed)

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 23:13:46 -0300
Subject: Re: Vent cover and hood questions (98 1964 4DHT Holiday sports sedan) 

In a message dated 96-08-21 09:18:02 EDT, you write:

<< Hmmm, that sounds like a PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation) valve... I
wasn't aware that PCV was found as early as '64.

Yes, PCV was standard starting in '63.  The '63 dealer facts books shows a
photo of this system from the side.  Shows the small vacuum line going up
under the air cleaner, possibly to the carb.  Book says "Unlike similar
systems, the Oldsmobile design DOES NOT FEED THESE FUMES DIRECTLY INTO THE
CARBURETOR EXCEPT AT LOW ENGINE SPEEDS."  Sound like that's what this vacuum
hose does - carb vacuum sucks vapors straight into the carb at low rpm,
vacuum of air moving past the pipe in the air cleaner snorkel sucks vapors at
high rpm with increased airflow.  This setup shouldn't have anything on the
other valve cover.  Oil filler cap (also called crankcase breather vent) has
a polyurethane filter in it (older ones were scouring pad-like wire screen
filters) and is what allows air into the system.  The vent on the valve cover
was new for '66.
  
 >   I have removed the ventile covers and painted them
 >   BLACK after hours of cleaning. I really miss that
 >   sand-blowing machine I used to have.....
 >   There is no problem in painting them again with
 >   the correct colour; the only problem is, WHAT
 >   COLOUR. The covers had a silver paint on them
 >   and I'm sure that was not the original colour.
 
 Hmmm, if you've got the 394 V-8, would your engine orignally be green?

No, only the low compression 394's are green.  The high compression 394's are
red.  The high compression engine was standard in the 98 and the Super 88.
 Low compression engines were standard in the Dynamic 88, with the high
compression as an option.  Jetstar 88's used the F85 330 engine.

Anyway, these valve covers should be painted, well, I'm not sure.  My '61 98
had chrome valve covers and a silver painted air cleaner.  Starfire engines
had the chrome valve covers and a chrome air cleaner as well.  Had a '64,
spent a lot of time under hood (cracked head, engine's - not mine), but can't
remember what color the valve covers were.  I want to say they were silver.
 Can't remember the air cleaner color either, want to say it's red/orange
like my '67 is.  Going the Northern Ohio Olds show this weekeng, I'll look at
the '64s and check this stuff out.

While I'm here, I guess I'll tackle that "other number plate" thing.  The
only other number plate on these cars that I know of is the body tag on the
firewall, mounted right above the master cylinder.  The plate in the door
jamb has the serial number only.  Body tag will have the body number (which
won't relate to the serial number), color codes, some option codes, body
style number (won't relate to the serial number either).

We've got to get a set of service manuals like you talked about before.  I
saw a set (all 5) at OCA Nationals last week.  Thought of you right away.
 Thought to myself "Boy, that guy from wherever with that 98 could sure use
those".  Didn't check on the price, sorry!  Stuff like the PCV system and
number plates would be covered in the manuals.

Paul  

------------------------------

From: "Darrell T. Weinman, M.D." <bigd@wave.net>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 13:21:30 -0300
Subject: unsubscribe

Please unsubscribe.

Thanks, DTW

------------------------------

From: "Darrell T. Weinman, M.D." <bigd@wave.net>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 13:33:11 -0300
Subject: [Fwd: Which car is better? (was Cubes)]

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To: Turbo! The Saab Digest <turbo@secret-secret.com>
From: Nice guy in Santa Barbara <rjs@silcom.com> (by way of 
rob@secret-secret.com
 (Rob))
Subject: Which car is better? (was Cubes)
X-Mozilla-Status: 0001

Hey guys...

This particular posting reminds me of the day back around 1979,
soon after I rejoined Saab Cars USA, Inc. after a 17 year break
with Volvo.  We were entertaining a group of motor journalists
visiting from Sweden.

During the Q&A following my presentation to them, one of the Swedes
asked which make I enjoyed driving most  -  Saab or Volvo.

Well, this was a tough one, as whatever I responded would certainly
be published in Sweden.  I had to handle it fairly delicately, but
also wanted to be certain that what I said would a) put Saab in a
good light, and b) in some way put Saab a leg up on Volvo, but with-
out being outright negative about the Gothenburg cars.

I said something along these lines:

Well, as you all know I worked for Saab from 1958 to 1961, so I had
a lot of experience with those early front-wheel-drive two-strokers
and really loved them.  Now I'm back with Saab after 17 years with
Volvo, and I love the modern 900s and especially the Turbos even
more.

During my Volvo years, of course, I drove nothing but Volvos and
appreciated them for what they were ... solid, safe, and all the rest.
Mind you, _my_ Volvos were hardly standard cars.  They were highly
modified, handled very well as compared with the stuff coming off
the assembly lines, and they generally went like hell.

I liked most of them very much.  But somehow I always had the feeling
I WAS TRYING TO MAKE A COW RUN LIKE A HORSE!

That's the way I feel every time I get into a big bore Detroit car,
definitely including the contemporary hot Pontiacs and Chevys.

Bob Sinclair  -  Santa Barbara

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 23:56:39 -0300
Subject: Re: 255/70 tires? and replacing map light? 

In a message dated 96-08-21 20:48:01 EDT, you write:

<< Which brings up my next question; *how* in the world do you ever replace
the
 bulb in the rear-view mirror? I popped off the plastic lens, but I'd never
 be able to stick a tool or finger in there to remove the old bulb, and a
 fuse-puller doesn't fit either. Does the glass come off? Or do I need a $50
 J-xxx tool to do this? The old bulb is a 563, a cylinder with little wire
 loops on the end that hook over the terminals inside the mirror; doesn't
 look fun, whatever the proper procedure is. Oh yeah, the '69 shop manual is
 silent about this; does the body manual cover this?
  >>

Try in your manual under the heading Lamp Bulb Removal - it's section 12 in
my '72 manual.

Map lamp on rear view mirror:
1. snap lens out of housing
2. squeeze sides of switch and pull down
3. pull bulb out of socket

Good luck

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 23:56:45 -0300
Subject: A-body 2piece stereo mounting 

Hey -

Was looking thru my '72 shop manual to find the thing on the map lamp
replacement and came across an illustration for mounting the "box" that's
attached to the stereo radio in '67 to '71 models.  Stereo was 1 piece in '72
as far as I know, but they have an illustration any way.  Seem to remember
some one on here wanting to install one of these in a '69 or '70.  Hope
you're still here.  I told you I thought it mounted like a cereal box, bolted
to the instrument panel brace to the left of the glove box like my '67 98.  I
was wrong.  

It mounts flat - above your glove box.  Meaning you have to take the glove
box out to install it.  Manual show two holes in the top of the glove box
opening where it bolts fast, the one on the left is right at the top of the
instrument panel brace, the other one looks like it's not quite half way
across.  There is a brace (you may be missing this) that goes from the back
corner (on the side) of the "box" and the other end goes where the bolt is
that holds the defroster duct in place.  The holes is the panel may not be
visible with the glove box in place.  If it wasn't dark and my convertible
wasn't out in the street I go look at mine to see what it looks like.

I told you we'd find a way to put that bugger in there.  I'm really excited.
 Hope you can put it in now.  Wish I had looked at the manual a few months
ago when this came up.  I'll never learn.

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 00:03:58 -0300
Subject: Re: Toroheads, you gotta read this! 

In a message dated 96-08-21 22:27:37 EDT, you write:

<< B, C60 Comfortron Air Conditioner
  >>

No, No!  This is wrong!  I meant C61 for Comfortron.  I swear I'm gonna fire
the proof reader on of these days!

Paul

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 00:32:39 -0300
Subject: run 12's and drive 95 miles to track (long info) 

 Ok, i will tell you my set up.
 I have a 72 455 that i bored .030 over with torque plates.  I took the crank
 and had it cross drilled and chamfered and the counter weights were 
 deburred.  I am using the stock piston rods with F2323 TRW pistons
 with file fit plasma molly rings.  I have a Toronodo 5qt. pan with windage
 trays and a crank scraper.  The oil pump is a melling Hv with toro pickup 
 from Mondello.  I am using a Cloyes double roller timing chain.  My cam is
 a comp cam and the specs are as follow    at .050 duration intake 234
 and exhaust 244 the lift is 523 in and 518ex with a 110center line. 
 advertise duration is 292. 
 I am using Mondello 7400 roller rockers and standard TRW pushrods and
 TRW lifters.  I set the cam in at O degrees or called straight 
 
 Back to the block, i had the block decked so that i have .017 thousands 
 piston to deck clearance, and also using a Victor Gaskets for head gaskets
 that measure .028 when compressed.  Felpro gaskets are .038 when compressed.
 
 Now to the Heads,  I am using GA heads the have been milled .060 on bottom
 and intake side to give me 73cc of volume.  The valves are Milodon stainless
 steel intake 2.072 and exhaust 1.710 with a 5 angle valve job.  The center
 divider
 on exhaust side was welded and milled smooth and # 3 and # 6 heat risers
 were welded instead of using Mondellos Heat block mix.  The Heads also 
 have been ported to remove egr bump and the bowls and exhaust polished.
 I recommend not polishing intake side for better Atomizing of the fuel.
 I am using the stock GM valley tray and the Stock W-30 aluminum intake.
 The carb is the Q-jet that i had a local shop bore the bottom .050 and put
in
 new
 shaft bushings.  I am using # 69 jets and 48b primary metering rods with
 AX secondary metering rods with a K hangar.  The cfm rate is 795 cfm and the

 carb # is 7042253.  I am also using the paper filter in the carb.  for fuel
 system
 I am using a Holley Blue electric through stock fuel lines and using the 
 stock pickup and the regulator is set at 6.5 PSI. For exhaust i am using 
 Hooker headers with 1 7/8 primary tubes with a 3 inch full exhaust 
 with Flowmaster 3 inch mufflers with 3 inch tail pipes. 
 For ignition, i am using the MSD pro billet distributor and the MSD blaster 
 coil and the MSD 6A box with NGK 5670-6 spark plugs gapped at .040
 The wires are just Accel black 8mm wires. I am still using power steering
and
 
 the GM thermo clutch fan and a 160 degree thermostat. I am using 20w50 
 Vavoline oil and a K&N 3.5 air filter.
 It is also important how you set up your car such as I am using the stock
 posi
 rearend but with 4:10 gears and the th400 has a shift kit and I am using 
 a ATI treemaster torque converter that stalls at 3500 RPM.  I shift at
 5600RPM
 when i race this car.  If i drive the car without hot dogging it I get about
 10mpg.
 This motor was built for street and strip.  I drove the car to Norwalk
 dragway
 which is 130 miles from my house and ran it that night with times of 12.70's
 consistently.  Anymore questions, I be glad to help.  By the way at idle
 which is at 1000RPM I pull 15 inches of vacuum so you can run power brakes,
 but my car is manual.   Other bits of advice is you can use a 460 Ford
 rear main seal which is same size as olds but is one piece and for the pan 
 gasket, use a 350 olds diesel because it has a steel shim to prevent
 squashing.
 DON'T USE THE MONDELLO CAM BUTTON it just cause premature wear.
 Also the Mondello 7400 roller rockers can be order direct from Jensel out of

 the National Dragster at half the cost.
 
 
 well here is some info, if you need more just e-mail or call me 313 336 8135
 W MACHINES@AOL.COM  (Mark Prince)
  

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #275
********************************
 
