To:	oldsmobile-digest @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET @ ABTLAB
Date:	08/03/96 11:35:51 AM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #255


oldsmobile-digest         Saturday, 3 August 1996      Volume 01 : Number 255


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 06:53:15 -0300
Subject: Re: My next driveway cover??? 

>In a message dated 96-07-30 06:45:20 EDT, you write:
>
><< As for the parts car, it's a 4 door. >>
>
>Would this car happen to have a really nice passenger front fender with a
>cornering lite hole?  Still wearing Turquoise paint would be appreciated.
>
>Paul

Im not sure offhand.  Its not up for grabs yet, tho.  It's got white
clothing on, too...
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 06:53:05 -0300
Subject: RE: Olds Stolen 

>If the stereo has a detachable face plate and you still have the receipt
>you can get the main unit replaced at least. I worry about this kind of
>crap all the time. My 86 Supreme is irreplaceable to me. I would 
>probably only get 2k from insurance if it was stolen, and I could never
>replace it with that. Whats everyone's opinion on car alarms? Has anyone
installed/had one installed in their older olds?


     Yes, yes, yes!!!!  Alarms are a MUST!  (Especially if your car has any
value to you -- and if there are no bowties on it, heh, heh, heh, then it
must fit the bill...)  The Rockit has had a Code Alarm's Elite Competition
alarm in it for three years or more now.  It is simply cool!  I've been an
authorized Code Alarm Installer in the past (when the shop was in
business...) so I can answer most alarm questions anyone might have.  When
it comes to alarms, there's not much that ~cant~ be done.  My alarm (upon
arming) will roll up the windows, lock the doors, chirp(if I want it to,)
flash the lights, and signal an LED to flash.  The protection involves a
dual stage shock sensor (it will chirp it the car is bumped, and sound the
alarm if it is hit harder,) a perimeter sensor that will chirp when the car
is approached, and an interior intrusion sensor that will sound the alarm if
there's any motion inside the car.  When the alarm disarms, the doors
unlock, and the dome light comes on for 30 seconds.  I can push a button on
the remote to open the trunk, roll the windows down *(I ~don't~ have that
module installed...)* start the engine (providing I HAVE one...) and three
or four other options I may find uses for.  In short, it rocks.  The blue
neon interior lights provide a certain coolness, also.  I get a lot of
"wows" out of people when I disarm the alarm and the taillights flash and
the seats are glowing blue.  It's kinda cool.  I sure do miss that engine!
I sure do feel bad for you, too, Dink.  I know it really sucks to lose
stuff.  I felt pretty bad seeing my '83 without any glass (ya know, where it
was supposed to be...) but I'd have been much worse had the rest of the car
been gone too!  Just a reminder, last I'd heard, the 81 to 87 Cutlass 2doors
were still at the top of the list for stolen cars....
     Oh, and if the alarm is set off, the ignition power is disconnected, so
it cannot be hotwired.  Other systems can easily be cut, as well.
     Recommendations?  I may catch hell for this, but I'm not a big Viper
fan. (or Python, or any Directed Electronics (DEI) brand alarms.)  They have
some cool options, but they come across as being really cheap and cheesy.
I've done a lot with Code Alarms, and some Invisibeam, The expensive talking
ones.... mostly coolness factor, I wouldn't rush out for one of those,
either.  VSE seems to have a fairly competent line, too.  Their Quantum Pro
was almost the Rockit's next alarm, but I never got around to it.  
     Be prepared, these better alarms are in the $$$ ranges you won't want
to see.  My alarm system is priced close to $1000, as I recall, with the
option list I carry.  I'd have charged at least $300 to install it, as well.
Be warned, also, many manufacturers will not honor their warranty if not
installed by an authorized person.  
     When having an alarm professionally installed, check references and
previous work.  I can't stress that enough.  I re-installed a ton of alarms
at Auto Max when I worked there.  Their previous installers were only out
for flat rate and it showed.  When checking systems, open the fuse panel.
If you see ~any~ wires stuck under the fuses (they make piggyback terminals
for that purpose) tell the guy "sorry, I'm looking elsewhere"  A thief will
go straight the the fuse panel, and start yanking.  Most likely, that will
kill off the alarm.  All of my systems are hard wired into the ignition
switch wiring harness, and taped and loomed to match factory wire routing.
I did a system in a 93 Cougar for my boss that involved three seperate
alarms, and when I was done, there was no way to tell which harnesses went
where.  The idea is to confuse a thief long enough to save the car, and keep
the siren going as long as possible.  
     I'd better stop this post, it's getting long!  Any questions, etc. feel
free to fire away!
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 06:53:12 -0300
Subject: Re: Alarms  Was: Olds Stolen 

>You would be amazed at todays criminal. Local police tell all the time of
>thieves walking up to a car they know has a talking or loud alarm and taking
>their old time getting in and ignoring the sound. Usually a second thief
>stands by with the gun to scare away the owner when they come out. Alarms
>work on amateur thieves. Professional's are stopped by nothing......except
>maybe a gun...:)

     I've heard of thiefs in Billings that will see an alarmed car, drive
by, smack it, go around the block, and if no one is there yet, then they
break in and feel safe that no one will show up.  A benefit for paging
alarms.  Also, some will take a screwdriver to the park lights, and short
out the bulb, so when the alarm goes off, the lights try to flash, and the
fuse blows, (or the fuse'd link, etc. )  Code Alarms have a seperate fuse
for the park light circuits for that purpose.  The rest of the alarm still
functions normally.  
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 06:53:18 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds Stolen 

>> The theft deterent system I see beaten the most is the Club. Lotsa 
>> sawed in-half steering wheels come in here.....
>
>Glad somebody else agrees with me there.  People look at me like I'm nuts 
>(yeah, I know, Andy) when I tell them you don't need to cut the club -- a 
>nice big set of bolt-cutters will do the wheel in a twinkle-of-an-eye.
>

     A friend of mine toured the GM headquarters (I think that's where he
said it was) with SAE a while back.  One of the offices had a steering wheel
hanging on the wall, with "the club" still attached to it.  He said he'd
found it on the sidewalk.....   Sometimes I think Paul Harvey is stoned!
Reminds me of a friend that had his car broke into in front of his house.
They took three speakers, his Kenwood alarm, and nothing else.  The left the
alarm on the sidewalk, next to the car!!!  One of those "lower" installs.  I
put a CodeAlarm in that car the next week.  I laughed and laughed and
laughed.  It's down right insulting to have an alarm stolen, and then thrown
back to boot!  (I did feel bad for him, but it was ironic)
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:39:59 -0300
Subject: Re: W-31 machine

John & Robin Whitcore wrote:
> 
> Here are some standard W-31 Spotter Tips:
> 
> 350 engine
> Ram Air fiberglass hood
> 6 cast on cylinder head
> MANUAL brakes
> No AC
> DIE CAST W-31 emblems
> Side striping
> BLACK plastic fenderwells
> Spoiler
> 
> If you don't see all of the above, it's not worth what he's asking
> 
> ....R

If I could add to this, the car should say Cutlass W-31 (emblem) not 442. If 
it has 442 W-31 you got 
yourself a fake...

- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: JJF97@uno.cc.geneseo.edu
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:06:25 -0300
Subject: Resto Tips

This came in from our reader Frank Boerger...
When Removing expanding clamp ferules (like found on the emergency brake cable
mount through the friewall) it's difficult to squeeze all 6 fingers together
at the same time to allow you to push it through.  Try a small hose clamp.
allow enough room to get the fingers started through the hole, remove the
clamp, and Viola!

This reminds us, that when we don't have enough hands and fingers, improvise!

Great tip Frank.

Resto Corner

- --joe ferrero

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 12:56:19 -0300
Subject: Re: Intro (long) and Q at end

Good to have you along, Spud.

> What could I do, being nearly broke, in debt up to my ears, too stupid 
> for words, too cheap and without money or remaining credit limit on my 
> cards to rent a car...

Yeah, he'll fit right in.   :)

> "Fart proudly."  --Benjamin Franklin

That Ben!  What a card.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:08:28 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds Stolen

buehner wrote:
> 
> The Rockit has had a Code Alarm's Elite Competition alarm in it...

Yeah, that's a good one.  Expensive but good.  
As always, you get what you pay for.

> I may catch hell for this, but I'm not a big Viper fan. 

No hell here.  They ARE cheesy.  Who the hell needs an alarm that's going 
to have a conversaion with a thief?  "Warning!  Protected by Viper!"  
Big deal.  It makes ME want to kick the window in just to piss it off.

> ... mostly coolness factor, 

Exactly.  Made to *sell*.

> Be warned, also, many manufacturers will not honor their warranty if 
> not installed by an authorized person.

And watch out for the "trunk slammers" -- those that work out of the 
back of their cars:

       "Sure, I can give you a good deal, blah, blah, blah..."

...then try to find him when you've got a problem:

       "Leave a message at the sound of the beep..."

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:12:12 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds Stolen

buehner wrote:
> 
> Sometimes I think Paul Harvey is stoned!

Sometimes?

> They left the alarm on the sidewalk, next to the car!!!  

HA!  Now that *IS* an insult.  NNnNN!

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: kissrulz@gnn.com (Craig Dobbins)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 06:18:37 -0300
Subject: Re: Lesson Learned/New Olds. 

>Date:		Thu, 1 Aug 1996 22:57:37 -0300
>From:	John & Robin Whitcore <retrotek@phoenixat.com>
>Sender:	oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>To:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>Subject:	Re: Lesson Learned/New Olds.
>
>Joe Bazzetta wrote:
>
>> John,
>
>Hey!! No insulting the lady!  I (Robin) wrote that ;)
>
>>I'm in St. Louis and i just found a yellow 1970, 4-4-2 w-31 for
>> sale....the #'s match and stuff, the interior is fair, outside great
>> with new paint, but i think rust may be taking over (in the front of
>> the car-the metal side pannels can be pushed down--i learned this 
>> when i tried to test out the shocks)
>
>We have found that a lot of times when someone wants to sell a car 
>quicker they paint over everything.  So beware!  I also heard 
>somewhere, somebody please tell me if I'm wrong, that a magnet will 
>not stick to bondo.  Or else just knock on it to find it. If this guy 
>painted over lots of problems then you just wait about 6 months and 
>you'll see that the paint job is worth squat because the rust will 
>come right through it.
> 
>>...would this be a good choice, or in a few months have to put lots
>> of money into it.
>
>> 4-4-2 info of a 1970 455cu in, please send it to me
>
>...it has a 455?  It should have a 350 to be original.  
>
>Before you can figure out if the car is worth what he is asking you 
>have to make sure that it's definitely a W-31.  Just saw an Olds last 
>week that had Cutlass Supreme interior and W-30 stickers put on 
>it....it wasn't a W-30.  (But I'm a purist)
>
>My advice is to bring in a mechanic who knows his classic Oldsmobiles.  
>Can any of you recommend one?
>
>....R

Hi again all,
   Since when did the 442's come with a 350 engine?  It was almost always the 
400 or the 455.  The comment about the paint and bondo are definitly correct 
though.  Ask him where he got it painted, check it out.  Right about the 
decals too!

                                                        Craig.

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 10:21:29 -0300
Subject: Toro Convt. 

I seem to recall reading somewhere that these cars (Were there 2?) were 
topless, not convertibles with tops. That is I think they simply removed
the roof with a cutting torch and delicate touch. Barris would have had
to have done a lot of custom metal work to build the top frame, roof
rail rubber and rear glass/plastic. One way to check is see if the reruns
were ever taped by anybody (toroheads?). If the top ever was up, I doubt
it would have been done with digital effects... so maybe Barris really 
did make custom tops too.

chris fair

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:15:19 -0300
Subject: Re: Toronado Convertible

PHartlieb@aol.com wrote:
>
> 1967 Oldsmobile Toronado 2dr. cvt., rebuilt as a convertible by George 
> Barris for Mannix television series.  I don't remember this...

I do.  Oooooooooo!  Now THAT would make a great Florida car.
I wonder how much I can get for my first born?

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: kissrulz@gnn.com (Craig Dobbins)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 06:22:28 -0300
Subject: Re: Replacing Conv. Top 

>Date:		Thu, 1 Aug 1996 22:43:46 -0300
>From:	mefco@sprynet.com
>Sender:	oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>To:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>Subject:	Re: Replacing Conv. Top
>
>Don't reuse the old rear window. While the window is still good, the
> material 
>around it is the same age as the top. Unfortunately, you have to buy the
> whole 
>package, you can't buy material only.
>
>Art Fuller

C'mon Art,
  Ever replace a top?  That glass can be cleaned around the edges, you're 
always better off using the original window unless something is wrong with 
it, and yes you can buy the material seperately, I'd like to see who told you 
this.  Big rip off.

                                                       Craig
                                                        '68 442 convertable
                                                          with new top and
                                                          original glass

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey A Easton/ADD_LAKE_HUB/ADD_HUB/ADD/US 
<Jeffrey_A_Easton/ADD__LAKE__HUB/ADD__HUB/ADD/US. ADD@notes.abbott.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 05:24:38 -0300
Subject: Re: W-31 machine

From: John & Robin Whitcore <retrotek@phoenixat.com>

>Here are some standard W-31 Spotter Tips:

>350 engine
>Ram Air fiberglass hood
>6 cast on cylinder head
>MANUAL brakes
>No AC
>DIE CAST W-31 emblems
>Side striping
>BLACK plastic fenderwells 
>Spoiler

I dont think the rear spoiler was standard on a W-31.  In 1970 the only
car that had it standard was the Rallye 350, and even on those cars
its questionable, since the Olds paperwork showed it both ways.

- -Jeff Easton
now at:  eastoja.add@notes.abbott.com

1970 442  4-Speed

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 19:37:56 -0300
Subject: Re: Lesson Learned/New Olds.

Craig Dobbins wrote:

> Hi again all,
>    Since when did the 442's come with a 350 engine?  It was almost always the
> 400 or the 455.  The comment about the paint and bondo are definitly correct
> though.  Ask him where he got it painted, check it out.  Right about the
> decals too!
> 
>                                                         Craig.

In '72 the 442 was an option to be order not an actual model such as in '71 
and before. In '72 the the 350 
was standard unless you order a 455. So many 442 came with 350.
- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 10:40:01 -0300
Subject: Exhaust Manifold Locks 

My bolts back out a bit, I just tightend them periodically with a 9/16's 
swivelhead wrench. Olds built my 66 motor with a piece of thin sheet
metal which the bolts went through. (Assembly order from outside in:
sheet metal strip - manifold - gasket) The idea was that you bolted 
this on, then bent down tabs just over the bolds to hold them in place.

Not sure if you can buy this or not, but it shouldn't be too difficult
to fabricate if it's driving you nuts. I just look at this maintenance
as a chance to discover other weaknesses while rooting around underhood.

chris fair

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey A Easton/ADD_LAKE_HUB/ADD_HUB/ADD/US 
<Jeffrey_A_Easton/ADD__LAKE__HUB/ADD__HUB/ADD/US. ADD@notes.abbott.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 05:16:53 -0300
Subject: Re: Interesting Junk Mail from my Olds Dealer

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>

>I got a nice glossy mailing from a local Olds dealer last night
>with a tempting offer in it.

>It starts out "Dear Bonneville Owner:"...
>They're offering me a free 24-hour test drive of a '97 Aurora, anytime
>between now and the end of September...

Rats.  I didnt get the mailing.  You SSEi guys have all the fun. :-)

>Well, if I take them up on the offer I really have to rig up a 24-hour
>jaunt somewhere (say, Chicago to Georgia and back) to make it worthwhile,
>I guess.

Well, I live a half hour from the Union Grove drag strip.  Lets see
what that engine can really do...  :-)

- -Jeff Easton
now at:  eastoja.add@notes.abbott.com

1970  442  4-Speed
(and '95 Bonneville)

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:40:37 -0300
Subject: Re: Toro Convt.

Chris Fair wrote:
> 
> ...if the reruns were ever taped by anybody (toroheads?). 

Have to check with Sparky.  He's the keeper of the archives.

Spark?

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 10:55:10 -0300
Subject: Re: Lesson Learned/New Olds.

There is bound to be a person in the local Olds club that would be glad to 
check 
this W-31 out for the person inquiring.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 05:53:25 -0300
Subject: Re: Replacing Conv. Top

Craig Dobbins wrote:
> 
> 
> >
> >Don't reuse the old rear window. While the window is still good, the
> > material
> >around it is the same age as the top. Unfortunately, you have to buy the
> > whole
> >package, you can't buy material only.
> >
> >Art Fuller
> 
> C'mon Art,
>   Ever replace a top?  That glass can be cleaned around the edges, you're
> always better off using the original window unless something is wrong with
> it, and yes you can buy the material seperately, I'd like to see who told you
> this.  Big rip off.
> 
>                                                        Craig
>                                                         


My 1989 Lebaron has the original window & curtain in a new top.  I jsut 
cleaned it well.  The top is a year old now & is just fine.  I have the 
old window from my 1968 442 to go in a new top as the curtain is just 
fine.  I plan on freshening the black w/a light coating of vinyl spray 
and putting it together. I'm glad to hear that material can be bought in 
case I have to replace the curtain.  I'll check into that just in case.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: John & Robin Whitcore <retrotek@phoenixat.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 12:04:52 -0300
Subject: Re: Lesson Learned/New Olds.

> Hi again all,
>    Since when did the 442's come with a 350 engine?  It was almost always the
> 400 or the 455.  The comment about the paint and bondo are definitly correct
> though.  Ask him where he got it painted, check it out.  Right about the
> decals too!
> 
>                                                         Craig.


This is a W-31 that he's talking about.  (Hopefully it doesn't have 
the 442 emblem on it.)  Those came w/350s.

------------------------------

From: John & Robin Whitcore <retrotek@phoenixat.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 12:07:34 -0300
Subject: Re: W-31 machine

Jeffrey A Easton/ADD_LAKE_HUB/ADD_HUB/ADD/US wrote:

> 
> I dont think the rear spoiler was standard on a W-31.  In 1970 the only
> car that had it standard was the Rallye 350, and even on those cars
> its questionable, since the Olds paperwork showed it both ways.
> 


Hmm,  according to the Restoration Guide it was standard.  Anyone 
else?

....r

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 10:54:17 -0300
Subject: Summer of 66 

Summer of 1966 is still alive and well in Ca. Ran my 98 conv. from San
Francisco to Tahoe last night through the Sacramento vally, foothills 
and into the mountains. Top down the whole way. Great to see a 320K mi
car can still pull up to 6000 feet. Cheers to the Olds BB designers.

Hadn't run this car that far in at least two years. Relearned olds lessons:
it's great on the open freeway, not much wind buffeting at all
big motors pull like hell uphill, even with freeway gears
nothing like a ride with the top down at 85 dry degrees
richer carbs run cooler and more economically than leaned out ones

Don't sell, ever.

Hope this isn't a dull story for a Friday morning, when I gas it up today
it will be interesting to see what kind of mileage I got going up from 
sealevel to 7000 feet in 200 miles and 3 hours with 780 holley. The 100
(admittedly light duty) miles prior to the trip yielded 16 mpg. Best I've
gotten in years.

chris fair

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 10:08:08 -0300
Subject: Re: Lettering and Graphics 

>> Dot matrix!!!?????   They still produce those things!!!!  ;)
>
>Nope.  Just take the Olds for a spin on 
>trash night and pick one up off the curb.  ;)

He ain't kidding. I picked one up last fall for $15, a Panasonic XP-1100
(or something like that) that may have printed perhaps 100 pages in its
entire life. I use it for churning out printouts, cheap and perfectly
functional. (Anyone know where I might find a manual for it?) I assume
Mike specifies this for its mechanical printing method that bangs the
ink onto the backing paper to give you a highly-visible stencil to cut
with -- you can go cross-eyed real fast trying to trace _faint_ lines.

You need a printer like this if you're doing stuff like multi-part 
forms, receipts and so on. I think they'll be around for a while.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Frank Boerger <103454.317@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:21:51 -0300
Subject: FW: Intro (long) and Q at end

To: 	INTERNET:OLDSMOBILE@CCN.CS.DAL.CA
Subject: 	Re: Intro (long) and Q at end

> What could I do, being nearly broke, in debt up to my ears, too stupid 
> for words, too cheap and without money or remaining credit limit on my 
> cards to rent a car...

And this was BEFORE he got married !!!!!

Frank Boerger

------------------------------

From: Doug Ahern <doug@cobra.cosmic.uga.edu>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:26:15 -0300
Subject: Re: W-31 machine

> > I dont think the rear spoiler was standard on a W-31.  In 1970 the only
> > car that had it standard was the Rallye 350, and even on those cars
> > its questionable, since the Olds paperwork showed it both ways.
> 
> Hmm,  according to the Restoration Guide it was standard.  Anyone 
> else?

it was not standard, I remember seeing factory w-31's without them. Perhaps
they switched mid year and made it standard...

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 10:27:18 -0300
Subject: Re: Lesson Learned/New Olds. 

>Try not alarming that owner by using just any magnet & scratching the 
>car - use a vinyl plastic regrigerator one.

...and rather than stick the magnet right on the paint, trap a piece
of soft paper like Kleenex or cloth under it, then pull the paper or
cloth along the body and see if the magnet falls off. Hope it doesn't.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Jon442@aol.com
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 12:07:18 -0300
Subject: Re: W-31 machine 

The spoiler was an option on the W31, just as it was on the W30. The sad
thing about a lot of these restoration guides is that they put out a lot of
misleading information that judges and others tend to take as gospel. 

Jon

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 14:47:36 -0300
Subject: Re: Lettering and Graphics

Andrew C. Green wrote:
> 
> Anyone know where I might find a manual for it?

I've may still have a Panasonic manual or two around here somewhere.  
Pretty sure I don't have one on the 1100 but most of the switch settings 
and program codes are pretty consistant across the product line.  Let me 
know if you need something checked.

> I assume Mike specifies this for its mechanical printing method that 
> bangs the ink onto the backing paper...

Yup.

> You need a printer like this if you're doing stuff like multi-part
> forms, receipts and so on.

Also, yup.  Funny how many people are amazed to find out that lasers 
can't print on multi-part forms or use pin-feed paper.   :o

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: John & Robin Whitcore <retrotek@phoenixat.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:37:55 -0300
Subject: Re: W-31 machine

Jon442@aol.com wrote:
> 
> The spoiler was an option on the W31, just as it was on the W30. The sad
> thing about a lot of these restoration guides is that they put out a lot of
> misleading information that judges and others tend to take as gospel.
> 
> Jon

Man!  Now I know how we were so confused with trying to figure out 
what that 442 was.  No wonder we got ripped off.  I'll just leave it 
to you experts then...I'm just glad that someone has it straight.  I 
do aplogize if I misled anyone with this quoted info. ;)

...R

------------------------------

From: John & Robin Whitcore <retrotek@phoenixat.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:39:44 -0300
Subject: Re: Lettering and Graphics

Andrew C. Green wrote:
> 
> You need a printer like this if you're doing stuff like multi-part
> forms, receipts and so on. I think they'll be around for a while.
> 


They also seel them really cheap at thirift stores but you'll get the 
best deal going to a charity-based one.

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:28:50 -0300
Subject: Re: Toro Convt. 

In a message dated 96-08-02 09:55:42 EDT, edison3@cpeq.com (Mike Frederick)
writes:

>> ...if the reruns were ever taped by anybody (toroheads?). 
>
>Have to check with Sparky.  He's the keeper of the archives.
>
>

Interesting,

However, I used to watch Mannix quite often and don't remember him ever
driving a Toro, As far as I recall, that show had nothing but MOPAR in it.
Mannix only drove 2 cars (that I ever saw in the show) I'm not that good with
MOPARS, but me thinks the original was the hopped up model just above the
Dodge Swinger (jeeze, I just can't remember the name of the model here, I
believe it was on a Dart body though.) Anyway, it was black and was a
convertible with what was probably that 340 six pack  MOPAR touted in their
muscle cars. 

I then believe after a few years he drove a Baracuda or a Challanger. This
may have been the other way around too, with the Dart being the later. 

The only way someone ever saw Mannix driving a convertible Toro, is if it was
the Pilot  show and only happened once. BUT, I do recall some show that had a
guy driving a Toro Convertible (66 or 67). I think it was also a detective
kind of show. It was a VERY short running show, perhaps only an episode or
two, at the very most one season. I never saw it, but I recall my Dad making
reference to it way back then. This was way before I became a Torohead, so I
didn't really pay that much attention at the time. 

Our cable here does not re-run old Mannix shows, yet anyway. I will watch in
the future though for validation of my hazy observations.  (: 

Sparky 

------------------------------

From: STEE911@aol.com
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:35:07 -0300
Subject: Fwd: Fan clutches 

gear drives can be either straight cut gears which will sound like a manual
trans in reverse at high speed but many gear drives are offered with helical
cut gears thus reducing the noise just like a manual trans in forward
gears==even a auto trans has several sets of helical cut gears<<dont hear
them much do you?

- ---------------------
Forwarded message:
From:	suntzu@ohana.com (Paul R. K. Kuromoto)
Sender:	oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Reply-to:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
To:	dpauliso@metrolink.net (Dave Paulison)
CC:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Date: 96-08-01 17:52:26 EDT

Imagine too...the OHC Olds engines used gear driven cams, and there was a 
geardrive available for SOHC Ford 427's...thats something like six or 
more gears..that must be a RUCKUS!

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: STEE911@aol.com
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:38:29 -0300
Subject: Fwd: Gear drive timing chains (Was:Fwd: Fan clutches -Reply) 

you can also try PAW for many different engine parts from one small part to a
complete engine also JEGS has good prices on a lot of gear==you can fint
their address in most "hot rod" mags
- ---------------------
Forwarded message:
From:	BLAINES@strata3d.com (Blaine Sanders 5483)
Sender:	oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Reply-to:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
To:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Date: 96-08-01 18:18:48 EDT

>P.S. anyone know any suppliers with a decent priced gear drive for a
>455??

You might try Summit Racing Equipment.  They don't list one for
Olds 455 in the catalog I have, but that doesn't mean they don't have
them.  The average price is about $225.   They have both quiet and noisy
ones.  I assume you want a noisy one, which would be good, since
they are cheaper.  

Summit has been pretty good to me so far.  I've ordered a few things and
haven't had any probs.  Any one else?  You may see the same parts
listed in other catalogs for less, but that's the price without shipping. 
Summit usually ships free.  And they "have millions of parts in stock and
ready to go!" =-)

Their Phone#'s are:  1(330)630-3030 & 1(216)630-3030
Web Address:  http://www.summitracing.com

- -Blaine Sanders
'72 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: STEE911@aol.com
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:42:43 -0300
Subject: Fwd: Concealed 

you might try to find a place that does custom lettering for marine
applications
they can cut froman 1/8in up to several feet==try going to a boat show in
your area
they can put it up on a computer screen in different colors sizes fonts and
import any art you might want
- ---------------------
Forwarded message:
From:	BLAINES@strata3d.com (Blaine Sanders 5483)
Sender:	oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Reply-to:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
To:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Date: 96-08-01 18:41:44 EDT

Subject:  Re: Resto  Tips  ..... -Reply

>Anybody want info on making custom lettering and decals?
>
>The 66 Toro and Mike

Sure!

------------------------------

From: STEE911@aol.com
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:55:12 -0300
Subject: Fwd: Lettering and Graphics 

yeah they do i have ten of them just sitting here
wanna but one?
- ---------------------
Forwarded message:
From:	retrotek@phoenixat.com (John & Robin Whitcore)
Sender:	oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Reply-to:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
To:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Date: 96-08-01 20:39:11 EDT

Dot matrix!!!?????   They still produce those things!!!!  ;)

....r

------------------------------

From: STEE911@aol.com
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:54:14 -0300
Subject: Fwd: Lesson Learned/New Olds. 

you can but a little magnetic meter type of thing to check thre thickness of
any existing bondo you might not see otherwise

try a matco or snap-on dealer
- ---------------------
Forwarded message:
From:	retrotek@phoenixat.com (John & Robin Whitcore)
Sender:	oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Reply-to:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
To:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Date: 96-08-01 21:00:02 EDT

Joe Bazzetta wrote:

> John,

Hey!! No insulting the lady!  I (Robin) wrote that ;)

>I'm in St. Louis and i just found a yellow 1970, 4-4-2 w-31 for
> sale....the #'s match and stuff, the interior is fair, outside great
> with new paint, but i think rust may be taking over (in the front of
> the car-the metal side pannels can be pushed down--i learned this 
> when i tried to test out the shocks)

We have found that a lot of times when someone wants to sell a car 
quicker they paint over everything.  So beware!  I also heard 
somewhere, somebody please tell me if I'm wrong, that a magnet will 
not stick to bondo.  Or else just knock on it to find it. If this guy 
painted over lots of problems then you just wait about 6 months and 
you'll see that the paint job is worth squat because the rust will 
come right through it.
 
>...would this be a good choice, or in a few months have to put lots
> of money into it.

> 4-4-2 info of a 1970 455cu in, please send it to me

...it has a 455?  It should have a 350 to be original.  

Before you can figure out if the car is worth what he is asking you 
have to make sure that it's definitely a W-31.  Just saw an Olds last 
week that had Cutlass Supreme interior and W-30 stickers put on 
it....it wasn't a W-30.  (But I'm a purist)

My advice is to bring in a mechanic who knows his classic Oldsmobiles.  
Can any of you recommend one?

....R

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 18:04:05 -0300
Subject: Re: Fwd: Concealed

STEE911@aol.com wrote:
> 
> you might try to find a place that does custom lettering for marine
> applications

Of course you can.  But we're talking on the cheap here.  Have you ever 
seen anything for a boat that wasn't overpriced?  

      Marine Sales Motto: "They gotta boat?  They got bucks!"

Besides, it's more fun to say "I made it  :) "

               rather than "They made it  :( "

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: SG Hartfelder <shartfel@planet.eol.net>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 15:11:34 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds FAQ in HTML

Catalano's wrote:
>Hey Shawn, where can we find your FAQ link?

S. Hartfelder


 
> At 11:20 PM 7/29/96 -0300, you wrote:
> >Shawn Twomey wrote:
> >>
> >> The FAQ link on my page has been updated with a sparkling, new HTML
> >> version of the document, thanks to Todd Hall (thall@en.com)
> >
> >Some very nice work by Todd.  We are all in your debt.
> >
> >Thanks, guys.
> >
> >The 66 Toro and Mike
> >
> 
> Thanks gang, I am happy to do it.
> 
> You've all been very helpful bringing my 442 back to life and waking up some
> of those comatose Olds brain cells. Their slowly coming back....kinda like
> riding a bike, eh?
> 
> If anyone finds any errors in the HTML FAQ please let me know.
> 
> Todd Hall
> thall@en.com
> '72 442

------------------------------

From: SG Hartfelder <shartfel@planet.eol.net>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 15:14:36 -0300
Subject: Re: Vanity Plates (Was Re: '84 H/O's, steering gears, etc.)

Try doing a search on the net for 'Vanity Plates' 
and you'll get at least 2 (two) sites with hundreds 
of great examples.

S. Hartfelder


Jerry Childers wrote:
> 
> There is a great vanity plate on a Vette here in B'ham: IXLR8 or "I
> accelerate".
> 
> ----------
> From:   oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca on behalf of Andrew C. Green
> Sent:   Friday, July 19, 1996 1:45 PM
> To:     oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
> Subject:        Vanity Plates (Was Re: '84 H/O's, steering gears, etc.)
> 
> >On vanity plates, saw a Vette last night that said, "MYIN".  As in,
> >"Mine, mine, all mine, mwahaha!", I guess.
> 
> Nominations for _good_ vanity plates? I can think of two (we have a
> seven-letter maximum in Illinois) I've seen in the past:
> 
> A dark-blue metallic '69 442:  DRK STAR
> 
> A nice Champagne Bronze SSEi:  MY WINGS
> 
> Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
> Datalogics, Inc.
> 441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
> Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: SG Hartfelder <shartfel@planet.eol.net>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 15:19:00 -0300
Subject: Legislation

I was sent the following email this week and I 
thought you might be interested:

I wish there was a newsgroup dedicated to the 
Legislation that
threatens to end hot rodding.

   We have all spent so much, and worked so hard, 
that I can't
understand why no one wants to organize and fight 
off legislation
that could force us to junk our great classic cars.

  Do us rodders live in a vacuum ?    Massachusetts 
is about to
initiate a * tough * vehicle inspection program.... 
the keyword is
emissions, not safety. A hearing was held in 
Worcester, and save for
myself, and an antique car owner, no one showed up. 
The "Automotive
Community" was represented by a man from Boston who 
owns Five repair
shops, and can't wait for the new test, so he can 
make lots more
money.  {aren't we rodders glad to be so well 
represented}   I found
out about the hearing by writing my local rep.  I 
called a bunch of
people, including the president of "my" club.  
Everyone was busy going
to cruise nights and couldn't be bothered.   Makes 
me real proud to be
a Massachusetts Hot Rodder.

------------------------------

From: Nick DiGiovanni <ndigiova@direct.ca>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 14:30:48 -0300
Subject: Re: W-31 machine 

At 11:26 AM 8/2/96 -0300, you wrote:
>> > I dont think the rear spoiler was standard on a W-31.  In 1970 the only
>> > car that had it standard was the Rallye 350, and even on those cars
>> > its questionable, since the Olds paperwork showed it both ways.
>> 
>> Hmm,  according to the Restoration Guide it was standard.  Anyone 
>> else?
>
>it was not standard, I remember seeing factory w-31's without them. Perhaps
>they switched mid year and made it standard...
>

I believe that in the previous post, the person meant that the spoiler
(option W-35) was standard on the Rallye 350.  If you look at an order form,
the W-35 option is required with the W-45 (Rallye 350) option.  A Cutlass
W-31 was a completely different beast and it was a seperate option to have
the spoiler on such a car.
The Rallye 350 came with all the flashy options because that was about the
only way they could sell that car to the youth that was looking for the
muscle car look without the high insurance cost.  The power from a Ralley
350 is nothing like that of a 4-4-2 or W-30 or W-31 and therefore it was
easier to get insurance for.



Nick DiGiovanni
Port Coquitlam, B.C.
1970 4-4-2 - "Snarls Softly and Carries a Big Kick"

------------------------------

From: John & Robin Whitcore <retrotek@phoenixat.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 16:30:19 -0300
Subject: Re: Legislation

SG Hartfelder wrote:
> 
> I was sent the following email this week and I
> thought you might be interested:
> 
> I wish there was a newsgroup dedicated to the
> Legislation that
> threatens to end hot rodding.


Being a fromer MA resident of 16 years I had a couple of awfull cars 
regarding emissions. They always passed inspection, however, because 
the emissions laws only go back so far in years regarding the model 
year of the car.  Are they changing that?  Both of my cars wouldn't 
pass current standards but were passed because they were much older.

Did I just luck out with my inspections or is my recollection of the 
law correct?

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 14:21:49 -0300
Subject: Re: Legislation 

>I wish there was a newsgroup dedicated to the Legislation that
>threatens to end hot rodding.

Well, if there isn't, there are established procedures out there on
how to go about newgrouping one. This could be a subgroup under one
of the rec.autos groups, I guess. The easiest way to generate support
for one is to get out there in the current autos groups and get some
discussion going on the topic. Anybody can newgroup an alt.* group 
anytime, but they have to persuade other systems to carry it.

>   We have all spent so much, and worked so hard, 
>that I can't
>understand why no one wants to organize and fight 
>off legislation
>that could force us to junk our great classic cars.

Of course there is organization already, but it obviously tends to be
more active in states that are being more aggressive in emissions
controls and legislation. California is probably number 1 on the list,
Illinois is just getting to the, um, annoying stage, and Massachusetts,
judging from the wording of this post, is just getting started (although
I know they've had more general inspections for decades).

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: SG Hartfelder <shartfel@planet.eol.net>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 15:02:49 -0300
Subject: Re: Concealed

Blaine Sanders 5483 wrote:
> 
> Subject:  Re: Resto  Tips  ..... -Reply
> 
> >Anybody want info on making custom lettering and decals?
> >
> >The 66 Toro and Mike
> 
> Sure!


Sounds good......
SG Hartfelder

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 15:56:19 -0300
Subject: Legislation 

Living in the People's Repblic of California, I know from smog laws. 

Check this out:

Rebuilt my Ca. original smog motor in 8/87. At the time twas legal to 
rebuild without any smog equipment. Ported and polished the heads and
inserted hex fittings into the smog ports which were smoothed out.
Tossed the airpump, PCV, etc. thinking whoopee!

Then they changed the law from any cars 21 years or older are exempt to
you have to keep the original smog equipment on the vehicle. Thanks 
Sacramento and of course cop, state and probably legislators cars are 
exempt. God forbid that government might have to live by the rules 
they impose on the rest of us. 

So I go to the boneyard to get the equipment. Luckily found it for about
$40. Now I have a ritual every 2 years. I put on the qjet, smog pump,
move the alternator, tune and fuss to get it to pass both the visual
and chemical inspection. Then about 4 minutes after it passes I tweak
the timing forward, nurse it home, rip off the qjet and put the happy
Holley back in its place. I keep the holley lean so it burns clean and
I wonder if the car would pass the test in that form. But of course it
wouldn't pass the visual inspection, so on goes the charade. 

To assuage my enviro-conscience, I do keep the PCV on. Just not that pump,
it used to make the car backfire a whole lot on deceleration.

Sorry to vent so long. Message is we have one planet, figure how much you're
willing to do to keep it nice. If that means belching unburnt hydrocarbons 
into the air, that's your call. If that means super clean catalysts
which cut 90% (as reported in the press), great. I'm somewhere in the middle.

(stepping of the soapbox)
chris fair

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 19:02:05 -0300
Subject: Re: Legislation

John & Robin Whitcore wrote:
> 
> Being a fromer MA resident ... the emissions laws only go back so far 
> in years regarding the model year of the car.

That's the way it is in Florida.  We only have emission testing in a few 
high-density counties, like the Miami and Tampa Bay areas.  But any 
vehicle manufactured prior to 1974 is exempt from testing.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 18:52:48 -0300
Subject: Re: Legislation

John & Robin Whitcore wrote:
> 
> Being a fromer MA resident ... the emissions laws only go back so far 
> in years regarding the model year of the car.  

For the record:

In Florida, we have emission testing only in a few high-density counties
(like the Miami and Tampa Bay areas).  However, any vehicle manufactured
prior to 1975 is exempt.  :)

Interestingly enough, if you do have to be emission tested and fail, you 
have to get the car fixed and retested.  BUT!  After you can show 
receipts for (I think) $400 in repairs and still can't pass, they say, 
"Oh well, at least you tried.  Don't worry about it."  Cool.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 16:16:40 -0300
Subject: HTML FAQ on Shawn's Page

Last night I looked at the new FAQ done up in HTML by Todd Hall and 
living on Shawn Twomey's page. What a nice piece of work!

Ya know, the only thing is... there's still a lot of empty sections 
there. C'mon, folks, whaddaya say? How about taking on the task of 
filling some of the gaps? I know we all have info like this just hanging 
around. After the effort that David, Todd and Shawn have put into this, 
it would sure be nice if we could pay them back a little.

David, do you have my camshaft specs piece that I cribbed from JWO and 
posted here a while back? I can send them to you direct if you need them 
for the FAQ.

Thanks again all who contributed, and lets get those contributions coming 
in! (I sound like PBS...)

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: lacey@dsea.com (Dan Lacey)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 17:27:10 -0300
Subject: Re: Legislation 

>SG Hartfelder wrote:
>>
>> I was sent the following email this week and I
>> thought you might be interested:
>>
>> I wish there was a newsgroup dedicated to the
>> Legislation that
>> threatens to end hot rodding.
>
>
>Being a fromer MA resident of 16 years I had a couple of awfull cars
>regarding emissions. They always passed inspection, however, because
>the emissions laws only go back so far in years regarding the model
>year of the car.  Are they changing that?  Both of my cars wouldn't
>pass current standards but were passed because they were much older.
>
>Did I just luck out with my inspections or is my recollection of the
>law correct?

You pass the emissions that were in effect at the time the car was
manufactured (CA is the same).

They were talking about NEW laws that would require high polluters to be
crushed (the car, not the owner :-)

For more info., see:

http://www.sema.org/


*************************************************************************
* THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY  *       Dan Lacey ( lacey@dsea.com )        *
*                           *       Dainippon Screen Eng. of America    *
* LEFT BLANK                *       3700 W. Segerstrom Ave.             *
*                           *       Santa Ana, CA. 92704                *
*************************************************************************

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 19:26:17 -0300
Subject: Re: Legislation

Chris Fair wrote:
> 
> Sacramento and of course cop, state and probably legislators cars are
> exempt. God forbid that government might have to live by the rules
> they impose on the rest of us.

In the meanwhile the manufacturers are trading polution credits like 
baseball cards, the Air Force is exempt from DER regulations, and every 
two-cycle outboard in the water is leaving oil slicks everywhere they go. 
As usual, this has everthing to do with getting elected and nothing at 
all to do with the environment.   Politics as usual...

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 16:28:50 -0300
Subject: Re: Concealed

Me too!!

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 17:37:47 -0300
Subject: Re: Legislation 

I know what you mean about "it's clean, but scares the inspector".  Your 
engine and setup most likely would pass.

I think this mentality by the states goes back when electronic ignition and 
lean burn engines first came out.  A lot of people thought nothing but the 
manufacturers setup could be cleaner.  I've been told by an emissions 
conscious auto instructor that a car in good condition with Elec. Ign, EGR, 
Cat, PCV, Evap canister reducess 95% of the pollutants a IC gas engine 
produces.  A few states have adopted the "if it passes the sniffer, it's 
good enough for us" method.  

What the California Air Resources Board (CARB - ha!) is doing is really 
scary.  These people must all drive cars no less than 2 years old.  Check 
out their shenanigans and self promotion at http://www.arb.ca.gov/.

The AIR pump causing a backfire on deceleration is caused by a faulty control 
valve (the air dump on decell mechanics).

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
        HTML indexed FAQ: www.cps.msu.edu/~twomeysh/

- -------------
I keep the holley lean so it burns clean and
I wonder if the car would pass the test in that form. But of course it
wouldn't pass the visual inspection, so on goes the charade. 

To assuage my enviro-conscience, I do keep the PCV on. Just not that pump,
it used to make the car backfire a whole lot on deceleration.

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 19:31:01 -0300
Subject: Graphics

Tried to send this direct but it bounced so forgive the use of the list.

   ----- Original message follows -----

     Subject: Re: Concealed 
        Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 15:20:30 -0700 
        From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Organization: Edison3, Inc. 
          To: SG Hartfelder <shartfel@planet.eol.net>

SG-man,

You should have seen the copy I posted to the list.  If not, let me know
and I'll forward another one direct to your door.

Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 16:55:20 -0300
Subject: Turbo

	I was recently approached by a potential customer at my shop and was =
very interested in what he is asking me to put together. He wants a twin =
turbo 455 in his 69 Cutlass. Now my question to anyone out there is =
this. Has anyone had any experience turbcharging a 455 Olds and if so =
please share with me any potential problems that you had. I am in the =
planning stages of this build and would like to get as much input as =
possible before I begin so anyone that feels that they may have a =
relevant concern I urge you to share it.

					Thanks
					Chris Urban

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 18:46:17 -0300
Subject: Re: HTML FAQ on Shawn's Page 

I second that Greg, the FAQ in indexed HTML is really slick!!

Got the camshaft spec, it resides under "MISCELLANEOUS PARTS 
IDENTIFICATION", "Cams".  What a transcription.  Thanks Greg!

The FAQ has grown!  It is now 192KB!  I still have a number of posts to add 
to it, so it should permanently go over 200KB.  I'm on track to get the 2.0 
version out in a couple of weeks.

Since Greg brought the subject up, here goes.  Anyone with contributions 
for the following, please send them to me.  You will be credited for providing 
this information.  You might also want to share them with the mail list.  Let 
me
know what info you have so I can send you what I have.  Thanks!

1949-1964 303, 324, 371, 394:
o 49-53 Engine performance (cr, bore, stroke, hp, torque)
o 49-60 car, carb use
o 49-60 vins, block color(s)
o Crank ids

Aurora V8:
o Block, head, id, specs, performance

1964-1990 BB, SB:
o BB block info for A, B blocks: CID, casting #
o SB block info: casting # id combos, ids other than 1-5 and 2A-4B
o Recap of 307 5A, 7A head intake usage, problems

o Detailed SB head listing: Valve sizes, applications, uniquenesses
o BB and SB port sizes: floor, roof, width, heigth

o BB, SB crank casting number, cid, year combos
o SB intake manifolds: id, cast #, year combos
o SB exhaust manifolds: id, cast #, year combos

o Piston dish volumes: BB and SB
o Manual trans: applications, ids

o W-30, W-31, W-33, W-34, W-35: 1-2 paragraph description for the overall line 
with 1-2 paragraphs describing changes/highlights for each year.

There are probably a million of these as the years progress (esp. 60's into 
70's), but what the heck!  All years, 1949 - 1990:
o Carb ids, casting numbers, applications
o Distributor id, casting number, applications

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
        HTML indexed FAQ: www.cps.msu.edu/~twomeysh/

- -----------------
Last night I looked at the new FAQ done up in HTML by Todd Hall and 
living on Shawn Twomey's page. What a nice piece of work!

Ya know, the only thing is... there's still a lot of empty sections 
there. C'mon, folks, whaddaya say? How about taking on the task of 
filling some of the gaps? I know we all have info like this just hanging 
around.

David, do you have my camshaft specs piece that I cribbed from JWO and 
posted here a while back?

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 18:05:02 -0300
Subject: Congrats to Bob Handren 

>>Congrats to Bob Handren 

          
          Just saw a photo of Bob's engine compartment in the latest 
          Popular Hot Rodding.  Looks good.
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30
****************************

Thanks Joe.  At least one part of the car made it into a national magazine!
:-)

For those who asked where, it's in the August issue of Popular Hot Rodding,
page 74.  It is towards then end of an article on the Olds Club of Florida's
1st Annual Show and Swap Meet.  I opened my mouth so now I am show chairman
for 1997. :-)  It will be in April.  If you are planning a visit to Orlando,
why not come to the show too?!

If you take a close look, the picture is kind small, you will see why the
local plumbers union has offered me an honorary membership card. :-))
 Between the NOS (brand name this time) Fogger system, plumbed AutoMeter
gauges in the reversed MoPar Six Pack hood scoop and the humongous hoses of
the original W-30 package, it's quite a sight. 

Come see it, and hundreds more, in Atlanta next week!

Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL
U.S. FDA Regulatory Affairs

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 20:01:06 -0300
Subject: Re: Lesson Learned/New Olds.

At 10:57 PM 8/1/96 -0300, you wrote:

>My advice is to bring in a mechanic who knows his classic Oldsmobiles.  
>Can any of you recommend one?
>
>....R


Heh, Chris Witt??
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Joe Bazzetta <bazzetta@i1.net>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 20:51:11 -0300
Subject: Re: W-31 machine

Fernando Proietto wrote:
> 
> John & Robin Whitcore wrote:
> >
> > Here are some standard W-31 Spotter Tips:
> >
> > 350 engine
> > Ram Air fiberglass hood
> > 6 cast on cylinder head
> > MANUAL brakes
> > No AC
> > DIE CAST W-31 emblems
> > Side striping
> > BLACK plastic fenderwells
> > Spoiler
> >
> > If you don't see all of the above, it's not worth what he's asking
> >
> > ....R
> 
> If I could add to this, the car should say Cutlass W-31 (emblem) not 442. If 
it has 442 W-31 you got
> yourself a fake...
> 
> --
> Regards
> Fernando Proietto

sorry i thought this 4-4-2 which has air was also called a w-31 (guess 
not)...this is a real 442 i checked it out by what you and others have 
said, but i still don't know what to offer him.  $5250 for a car which 
needs a huge restoration job wouldn't be for me.

------------------------------

From: Joe Bazzetta <bazzetta@i1.net>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 20:53:59 -0300
Subject: Re: Lesson Learned/New Olds.

mefco@sprynet.com wrote:
> 
> There is bound to be a person in the local Olds club that would be glad to 
check
> this W-31 out for the person inquiring.
> 
> Art Fuller 
this car is in St. Louis art, how would you get here to check it 
out---and by the way it is only a 1970 4-4-2 with a 455cuin engine with 
air NOT A w-31 SORRY!
joe
bazzetta@i1.net

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 21:09:37 -0300
Subject: Re: '68 442/Cutlass Headlight housing

Craig,
Did anybody answer your request for the 68 headlight assy?  I will look in one 
of my storage buildings tommorrow and see what I've got.  Had about 5 or 6 
sets 
last time I looked. 
Let me know if you've found one.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: spud@kudonet.com (Spud)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 21:52:33 -0300
Subject: Re: Exhaust Manifold Locks 

I'm with you, Chris.  I use those now, but still have the problem.  The
memory of getting another set of these once is what told me I don't want to
have to go to a junk yard to get the manifold bolts.  These are what I
referred to as "sheet metal bolt head 'locks.'"  Too much flexing of that
sheet metal makes it fatigue, crack and break.

Any other ideas?

>My bolts back out a bit, I just tightend them periodically with a 9/16's 
>swivelhead wrench. Olds built my 66 motor with a piece of thin sheet
>metal which the bolts went through. (Assembly order from outside in:
>sheet metal strip - manifold - gasket) The idea was that you bolted 
>this on, then bent down tabs just over the bolds to hold them in place.
>
>chris fair

Spud     "Fart proudly."
         --Benjamin Franklin

------------------------------

From: spud@kudonet.com (Spud)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 21:52:37 -0300
Subject: Re: Resto Tips 

Another idea would be to try a plastic cable tie, if you don't have a hose
clamp small enough.

>When Removing expanding clamp ferules (like found on the emergency brake cable
>mount through the friewall) it's difficult to squeeze all 6 fingers together
>at the same time to allow you to push it through.  Try a small hose clamp.
>allow enough room to get the fingers started through the hole, remove the
>clamp, and Viola!

>--joe ferrero
Spud     "Fart proudly."
         --Benjamin Franklin

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 21:55:14 -0300
Subject: legislation 

say does the following url

http://www.arb.ca.gov/.

mean arbitrary?
chris fair

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 22:01:06 -0300
Subject: Turbo V8 

Chris,
Sounds like your turbo 455 customer better check with Gale Banks in the valley
down in LA. I believe custom turbo systems are their specialty. While we're
on the topic of exotic induction....

Does anyone have experience with the Holley 900 cfm fuel injection system on a
BB olds? Was thinking this would be pretty cool and good for power and 
environment
at once. I mean, assuming a closed loop system.

Has anyone ever home brewed a multipoint fuel injection system on a BB olds? 
What parts and results were acheived? Cost? Hmmm....


As an aside, came across a strange beastie in the junkyard not too long ago. 
A 1976 "Eldorado Fleetwood". Key characteristic was multipoint fuel injected
425 motor. Cool.

cf

------------------------------

From: Chris and Robin <cya442@erols.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 22:04:32 -0300
Subject: Re: CA. Smog Regs

Chris Fair wrote:
> 
> Living in the People's Repblic of California, I know from smog laws.
> I am in the military and getting ready to go to Ca., and was wondering 
how bad the regs were out there?  I have a 68 442 that has a 455 which 
is pretty healthy to say the least, do they do emission tests on cars 
that old?  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Chris
cya442@erols.com

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 22:10:34 -0300
Subject: Exhaust Manifold Locks 

On this kind of thing I tend to trust olds engineers, but another admitted 
Bugatti weird fix is to drill holes in the heads of each exhaust bolt and
wire them in place. That is, run a wire through the small holes and back
through so they're mechanically linked. At least it worked on race cars 
in the 1930's. Never tried this though, just a weird idea.

Only Slightly more seriously, perhaps a set of nuts and slightly longer
exhaust manifold bolts would work. Think about the double nuts that are on
your emergency brake line. It never loosens. Perhaps if you tightened the
exhaust bolts against a nut on the outside of the manifold they would stay
put.

That's about all the mechanical creativity I've got...
chris fair

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 17:10:08 -0300
Subject: Re: Legislation

Mike Frederick wrote:
> 
> John & Robin Whitcore wrote:
> >
> > Being a fromer MA resident ... the emissions laws only go back so far
> > in years regarding the model year of the car.
> 
> For the record:
> 
> In Florida, we have emission testing only in a few high-density counties
> (like the Miami and Tampa Bay areas).  However, any vehicle manufactured
> prior to 1975 is exempt.  :)
> 
> 
> 
> The 66 Toro and Mike
> 
> Mike:

Alabama has laws, but they are all ignored.  We have no kind of 
inspection at all.  Muffler shops are nervous about taking out catalytic 
converters, but you can do it yourself & no one cares.  

You can get a license on anything if it is older than 1975.  I got an 
antique license on a car w/no motor or transmission & only part of a 
rusted data plate w/I don't know how many numbers missing.  There was no 
license on the car or any other kind of paperwork as to where it came 
from or when it last had been licensed or even run.  I had a bill of 
sale made up by the previous owner saying the car had not been on the 
road in the last 5 years & they charged me $11 & gave me an antique 
license based upon the incomplete SN.  They had no previous record of 
the car, never looked at it, took my word that it wouldn't be hot rodded 
& just gave me a license plate & all of the paperwork.  When you see 
that a group in Birmingham is getting paperwork for cars out of state 
w/o it, you can now see how easy it is.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 22:22:50 -0300
Subject: CA Smog Regs 

My understanding of CA smog regs is that the equipment which was delivered
on the car has to be there and functioning as original now. If not, you get
to spend up to $500 for any old kind of klugey fix then off to a referre 
station.

The upshot is if you're running a non-stock cam which won't pass, a nonstock
manifold or carb. You have to either find a pliant smog service person
(read bribable, but then they have their *ss on the line if you get popped
by the hiway patrol for running nonstock stuff with their o.k.) or you have
to run the charade that I do. Put all the original crap on then take it off
every two years.

What's important here is that regs varied widely from state to state in '68
and still do. I.e. if your car didn't have a smog pump and/or PCV as delivered
say, in MI or MO, then you don't have to have it in CA today. If it was
delivered with this stuff in CA, then you're on the hook to have it there now.
Or at least spend $500 trying.

I'm running an RV cam now which gets through, don't have the degree numbers
for you all though. Pure luck that it passes, as noted in a previous post
I rebuilt the motor under one set of rules, then the state, in its infinite
wisdom, changed them. 

Such are the challenges of living in an enviroconscious place. But then it's
clean too. Don't mind that at all. 

chris fair

On a related note I'd love to swap over to multiport fuel injection. Any
storys good bad or ugly on this topic for BB olds are welcome. I'm interested
in both Holley and home built.
thanks

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 22:32:34 -0300
Subject: Re: Exhaust Manifold Locks

Chris,
Just go to Oldsmobile and get some new locks for your exhaust bolts. They're 
cheap.
I used to safety wire all nuts on airplanes like you're talking about. You 
would 
also need a special set of pliers to do that. 

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 22:35:14 -0300
Subject: Re: Lesson Learned/New Olds.

Joe,
There's certainly nothing wrong with a 70 442, but they are probably more 
plentiful than W31's. You can buy one down here in Texas cheaper than that, 
and 
they're not full of rust.
I was talking about the St. Louis Oldsmobile Club.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 22:50:42 -0300
Subject: Spoilers 

Oldsmobile New Car Merchandising Bulletin #N/C 69-25, dated 12/9/69 says
this:

W35, Rear Deck Lid Air Spoiler - Available as a factory-installed option
starting approximately January 1, 1970.  Provides the functional advantage of
improved tracking at turnpike cruising speed ranges while creating a high
performance rear deck styling accent.  Available on F85 models 3177 & 3277,
Cutlass "S" models 3577, 3587, 3677 & 3687 and 442 models 4477 & 4487.
 Initial orders will be accepted for the preference of December 15 with
production anticipated on January 1, 1970.  Manufacturer's Suggested Retail
Price $73.72

The Rear Deck Lid Air Spoiler is available for dealer installation on 1969
and 1970 intermediate size Oldsmobiles is the Sports Coupe (77) and Holiday
Coupe (87) models.  Spoiler Package part #983190.  Manufacturer's Suggested
Retail Price $70.00. Flat rate installation time 1/2 hour plus paint to body
color.

New Car Merchandising Bulletin #N/C 70-1 says this:

...W45 (Rallye 350) package includes: W45,D35,FE2 (except
wheels),L74,N10,N34,W25,W35(this item has a line drawn though it).  Note:
W35, Rear Deck Lid Air Spoiler, is available as an option on the Rallye 350
but is no longer mandatory with the W45 option.

1970 Product selling features book makes no mention of the W35 spoiler being
standard on the W31, probably becuase this information was printed in late
summer before this item was available.

If you wish to discuss these bulletins with me further, you will have to wait
until Wednesday August 14th as I am going to be at the Atlanta Nationals and
I am unsubsribing from the list to avoid any mailbox problems for Greg.  Will
resubscribe on the 14th.

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 22:51:20 -0300
Subject: Re: Toro Convt. 

In a message dated 96-08-02 12:38:06 EDT, you write:

<< Our cable here does not re-run old Mannix shows, yet anyway. >>

For satellite subscribers, the TV Land channel (from the Nick @ Nite people)
is showing Mannix reruns.  They didn't look interesting to me, but guess I'll
have to start watching them to get glimpse of that Toro.

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 22:47:43 -0300
Subject: Atlanta Bound 

Heading for Atlanta Sunday PM.  Unsubscribing as of now to avoid a full
mailbox and bounced messages creating problems for Greg.  Will resubscribe
upon return from Atlanta.  Looking forward to seeing some of you there.
 Don't forget, "Look for the guy with the big dent".  See ya all when I get
back.  I miss the one-liners from 66 Toro and Mike already.

Confidential to Mike Hall: I finally have your money order, but not your
email address.  Please try to email me directly by Sunday Noon in regards to
the article we "spoke" about a couple of weeks ago. Thanks

Paul
PHartlieb@aol.com

------------------------------

From: REGGIE GOBLE <REGGIE_GOBLE_4@wow.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 23:34:28 -0300
Subject: 69 toronado

Good Evening. 
     I am the proud owner of a 69 toronado. Much work had been done  with 
much more to do. Any comments, just talk of Toronados in general is great with 
me. I've had a 66, 67 69, 70 , and wish I had them all back. I need parts, 
pieces,
original 8track and I would be interested in anything that will bring my 
Toronado to mint condition. Thanks a lot for anyone who leaves a note and 
offers help or suggestions. 
Reggie Goble

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 23:57:55 -0300
Subject: Re: Resto  Tips  ..... 

>
>Anybody want info on making custom lettering and decals?

     Sure, do tell.  I might be up for a new rear window decal on the GS
someday (The current lettering leaves a bit of professionality to be
desired, but still turns heads, anyway...  --see my homepage, if no one
knows what I'm talking about here!)

    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 23:57:57 -0300
Subject: RE: Traction Aids 

>- The right spring
>- The right shock
>- The right tire
>- The right anit-sway bar
>- The right magic part
>- The right bushing
>etc.......
     
     Umm, OK, what about the left ones!!!   ;)

    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 23:57:48 -0300
Subject: Re: '77 Olds 

>This leaves only a few parts of the country unaccounted for now. Perhaps
>we will hear about a "Pioneer Special Edition" from New England, or a
>"Hula Edition" from Hawaii?  :-)

     We musn't leave out our now famous "Montana Unibomber Edition,"
complete with bike rack, spatious storage compartments, and static-free
trunk mats.  Boy, those were a ~blast~ to drive!!!   (Hyuk, hyuk...  Sorry,
I couldn't resist that!  Anyone for a ME TOO?)            :)

    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 23:57:59 -0300
Subject: Re: Interesting Junk Mail from my Olds Dealer 

>Well, if I take them up on the offer I really have to rig up a 24-hour
>jaunt somewhere (say, Chicago to Georgia and back) to make it worthwhile,
>I guess. Will have to have some major fun in order to put up with the
>sales pitch I can expect when I have to return it!

     Speaking of sales pitches, my buddy (with the 69 GTO) test drove a new
~amaro the other day.  The salesman told him it was probably the quickest
car he'd ever driven.  Sure shut him up when the words "my four door could
beat this piece of s***!"  They sure seem proud of those damned blowties!  :)

    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 23:58:07 -0300
Subject: Re: Lettering and Graphics 

>The vinyl holds up extremely well.  A sprint car I did several years ago
>proved that.  Since it ran only on dirt, it was sandblasted several times
>a night.  The painted areas showed the wear, the vinyl never did.

     Cool...  I trust ink jets will work the same?...  Note about the
vinyls, be cautious about colors and qualities.  Those really hot bright
colors may become dull orange shades in years to come.  I've seen a lot of
them fade badly.  Very durable and clean, though.
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 23:58:02 -0300
Subject: Re: Gear drive timing chains (Was:Fwd: Fan clutches -Reply) 

>
>Summit has been pretty good to me so far.  I've ordered a few things and
>haven't had any probs.  Any one else?  You may see the same parts
>listed in other catalogs for less, but that's the price without shipping. 
>Summit usually ships free.  And they "have millions of parts in stock and
>ready to go!" =-)
>
>Their Phone#'s are:  1(330)630-3030 & 1(216)630-3030
>Web Address:  http://www.summitracing.com
>


     
     MIL-14000 Olds V8 up to 1976 ...$297.95
          --Milodon Cheater Gear Drive

Summit's been good to me so far.  Most of the non-Olds specific parts are
here right away, but the really good ones have to be backordered, or
something.  They've been pretty good about staying accurate on times, etc.
I think I've only placed three orders from them in five years, but I've had
no problems, so...

    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: Dan Williams <dr_olds@kfmw.net>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 17:39:03 -0300
Subject: Re: SS Wheels, brake lights, whatever

mefco@sprynet.com wrote:
> 
> If SS11 wheels weren't made until 69, what were the wheels that looked just 
like
> SS11's called in 68?
> I used the paint from Fusick's. Looks fine to me.

Well, in 68 they were called SS twos, not SS elevens.  Heheheh.  I meant 
they did not make 14 x 7 SSIIs (it was 14 x 6 before that).

- -Dan

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 01:35:09 -0300
Subject: Re: Toro Convt. 

In a message dated 96-08-02 21:54:16 EDT, PHartlieb@aol.com writes:

>They didn't look interesting to me, but guess I'll have to start watching
them to get glimpse of that Toro.
>
>
Paul,

You'll be there a while Pal! It won't be there! Wrong show! 

Sparky

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From: Gilbert Russell <73717.1440@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 01:59:48 -0300
Subject: T-Tops Weather seals 84  hurst olds

Anyone out there have suggestions on temporary fixes for 
repairing leaking T-top seals.  I went to the dealer but $150 per sid 
ewas a little steep just for a few stips of rubber.  

Gil Russell

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From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 14:26:58 -0300
Subject: Re: 69 toronado

Hi, Reggie, good to have you with us.  I sure Sparky (Greg Kalkhoff) will 
be adding you to the Toro mini list (the hard-core Toroheads).

> I've had a 66, 67 69, 70 , and wish I had them all back.

I know what you mean.

Hey -- chalk up another point for the Ts -- the virus spreads!

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #255
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