To:	oldsmobile-digest @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET @ ABTLAB
Date:	08/20/96 07:41:20 PM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #273


oldsmobile-digest         Tuesday, 20 August 1996      Volume 01 : Number 273


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 18:37:40 -0300
Subject: Re: >>>4-SPEED OWNERS!!! READ THIS!!!!<<<

Paul R. K. Kuromoto wrote:
> 
> I never seem to be able to get replies to my 4-speed questions, but it's
> not because people don't have them..i see so many taglines with 4-speed
> cars.....
> Does anyone have a factory clutch fork for sale?
> Does anyone have clutch linkage parts for sale (in particular the spring
> and brackets that hold the assembly together)?
> Has anyone ever replaced their factory fork with an aftermarket one (e.g.
> Lakewood)?
> 
> Heck, last time I was asking about clutches, I only got ONE reply...and
> everyone's got to be running some kind of clutch or another with their
> 4-speed..so COME ON 4-SPEED PEOPLE!! SPEAK UP!!!
> 



I have never replaced anything on my 4-speed.  I have a complete 1963 
Pontiac standard transmission set up minus the transmission, but that is 
it.  I certainly wish that I could help.  My lack of reply was not 
showing an unwillingness, but a lack of resources.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 00:52:13 -0300
Subject: Re: OCA Nat's

Roger,
Are you the person that was having a problem with your car and I told you to 
just sell it to me and not worry about fixing your problem? If so, I have seen 
the picture.
I paid $6400 for the car. It is an exceptional 78,000 mile white with blue 
interior car. The previous owner installed a ram air hood, 442 grilles, and 
SS11 
wheels.
I will add tilt with demand/delay wiper system, cruise, sport wheel, clock, 
and 
a left gauge from the rally pac. If I can find a 4 door with power windows 
I"ll 
put those in also.
I put it on the rack and was really surprised that the underneath has no rust 
of 
any kind. The other owner lives in Sarasota, Fla. The car was built here in 
Arlington, Texas and was traded by an old couple on a new car.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 00:59:44 -0300
Subject: Need help with '69 Toro stereo; and WD-40, the miracle tool! 

Lets see, what have I fixed so far on my Toro with a simple can of WD-40...

* Frozen driver's-side door lock,
* Stuck power antenna,
* and of course... the CLOCK!

Yup, this afternoon I pulled down the dashboard (fun, Fun, FUN!), fogged her
with some WD-40, and behold, she moves! 

The other afternoon, while waiting for my wife in the bank parking lot with
my daughter asleep in the back seat, I decide to read the owner's manual
(again!), and re-read the section on the accessories like my power antenna.
It notes that you stop pressing the button when you hear a clicking noise,
since the antenna is at the end of its travel... hmmm, my halfway-up antenna
clicks when I press the button... let's see, if I pull up on it *real* hard
while I press the button... Hey! Lookee she workee! Just REAL slow, with a
kinda grinding noise. Once I get home, I lube up that antenna *real* good,
run her up and down a few dozen times, and now have a pretty functional 
antenna.

The point is moot, of course, since I don't have a working radio! While I
was in the dash today, I checked its wires; all connected, except that I
couldn't find the rear-speaker wire (this is an AM/FM Stereo unit). Then I
noticed a *huge* cable coming off the back of radio, leading to what I
previously thought was part of the Comfortron system.  It apparently is some
sort of factory amp, with a cable having about a dozen pins connecting it to
the radio, and the rear-seat speaker coming off this separate unit. 

Right now, when I turn the radio on at full volume, I barely hear it through
the front speaker, and get nothing from the rear. Could this separate amp be
the culprit?

Though I'd like to keep the stereo original, I'll change over to a more
modern unit if this is going to run me into big $$$ (I'm not a purist). Any
ideas/experience on this one?

The radio and the Comfortron (which inexplicably works only on low) are the
only gremlins I have left to track down on this car.

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 00:59:58 -0300
Subject: Odd GEN light problem, on '69 Toro... 

On my '69 Toronado, the GEN light glows a bit dimmer than the OIL light
right next to it when the key is in run but the engine is stopped. This
wouldn't concern me, except that the same GEN light glows dimly when I have
the key turned to the accessory position.

I know we covered this one before on the list: do I have a bad ground, or is
this a diode, or is it a voltage regulator? Do I start pulling fuses, or
just replace something here?

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 01:06:25 -0300
Subject: Re: Con rod orientation 

At 07:11 PM 8/19/96 -0400, you wrote:
>A long long time ago there was a thread posted about the correct 
>orientation of the con rods with respect to each other on the journal.  
>>From what I remember there was a distinct way to "face" the rod when 
>pressing it onto the piston.  I remember something said about a "chamfer" 
>on the rod?  I can find no such obvious chamfer on my rods, will the 
>people who posted this thread long ago please contact me?

There are two things that can determine which way the rod should go:

First, if there is a chamfer on one side of the rod, it should face, uh, in?
out? I dunno, but it should face whatever way the shop manual tells you to
face it.

Second, if your rod has a spit hole for oiling the cam, that should face the
inside of the "V", so it can oil the cam.

If you have a newer motor (like my 403), the orientation doesn't matter,
since the chamfer on the rod is the same on both sides (minor), and there
are no spit holes.

One note on this; in his technical guide, Mondello tells you to always face
the tangs on the bearing toward the cam, since the bearings are designed to
spin in a particular direction. This is nonsense, as you'll have two rods on
the same journal with the tangs facing in different directions, and hence
1/2 of your bearings would be spinning "backwards".

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Peg O'Connor" <peg@grove.ufl.EDU>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 01:13:48 -0300
Subject: Re: My Trip to Fusick's - Not!

What is Rislone Concentrate?  Was that you who mentioned it, Greg B??

------------------------------

From: "Gregory G. Kalkhoff" <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 03:23:35 -0300
Subject: Re: Need help with '69 Toro stereo; and WD-40, the miracle tool!

Robert J. Barry wrote:

> Right now, when I turn the radio on at full volume, I barely hear it through
> the front speaker, and get nothing from the rear. Could this separate amp be
> the culprit?
> 

Dr. Bob,

I had that same symptom 3 times. Every time it turned out to be a bad speaker! 
The 
problem is that the paper warps and drags the voice coil on the magnet....the 
worse the 
warp, the less sound you get! Originally, they are paper cones. Over time, 
they absorb 
moisture (from air or leaks) and warp.

I got a perfect replacement (size, shape, material, impedance, etc) from 
(believe it or 
not..RADIO SHACK!!!!!)  The rear one is easier than the from of course. I have 
only 
replaced rear ones, but if you bring in the original front, chances are they 
will have 
one or can order. The rear speaker was only 14 bucks!  Can't beat that!!!!!

Don't play the radio until you get new speakers (at least the rear) and/or 
just turn the 
balance so the rear is on alone. Otherwise you may blow the amp.

Sparky

------------------------------

From: "Gregory G. Kalkhoff" <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 03:26:48 -0300
Subject: Re: Odd GEN light problem, on '69 Toro...

Robert J. Barry wrote:
> 
> On my '69 Toronado, the GEN light glows a bit dimmer than the OIL light
> right next to it when the key is in run but the engine is stopped. This
> wouldn't concern me, except that the same GEN light glows dimly when I have
> the key turned to the accessory position.

Bob,

I remember one of mine does that that too! Never seemed to exhibit any 
problems 
otherwise. Perhaps its normal? A way to let you know you have the acc on?  I'm 
not 
really sure. I have seen this in other cars too.

Sparky

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 01:26:42 -0300
Subject: Re: Need help with '69 Toro stereo; and WD-40, the miracle tool! 

At 02:23 AM 8/20/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Robert J. Barry wrote:
>> Right now, when I turn the radio on at full volume, I barely hear it through
>> the front speaker, and get nothing from the rear. Could this separate amp be
>> the culprit?
>
>Dr. Bob,
>
>I had that same symptom 3 times. Every time it turned out to be a bad
speaker! The 
>problem is that the paper warps and drags the voice coil on the
magnet....the worse the 
>warp, the less sound you get! Originally, they are paper cones. Over time,
they absorb 
>moisture (from air or leaks) and warp.
>
>I got a perfect replacement (size, shape, material, impedance, etc) from
(believe it or 
>not..RADIO SHACK!!!!!)  The rear one is easier than the from of course. I
have only 
>replaced rear ones, but if you bring in the original front, chances are
they will have 
>one or can order. The rear speaker was only 14 bucks!  Can't beat that!!!!!

I'm on my way to Radio Shack tomorrow! I'd like to go to a double feature at
the drive-in this Thursday with the family, and since they broadcast on AM,
I'd better get this working!

>Don't play the radio until you get new speakers (at least the rear) and/or
just turn the 
>balance so the rear is on alone. Otherwise you may blow the amp.
>
>Sparky

There is some warning to that effect; could the amp I have already be blown,
since the front speaker works, just VERY faintly? How can you test one of
these things (aside from getting a new speaker, obviously)?

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: Dave Voorhis <dave@armchair.mb.ca>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 01:36:09 -0300
Subject: Re: Need help with '69 Toro stereo; and WD-40, the miracle tool! 

At 03:23 AM 20/08/96 -0300, you wrote:

>I had that same symptom 3 times. Every time it turned out to be a bad 
speaker! 

Speaking of which (pun intended), how do you get at the front speaker in a
'66 or '67 Toro to replace it?  The speaker's shot in my '67, but I can't
find a way to pull it without disassembling the entire dash.

Dave Voorhis, '66 and '67 Toros
dave@armchair.mb.ca
http://www.armchair.mb.ca/~dave

------------------------------

From: "Gregory G. Kalkhoff" <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 03:44:03 -0300
Subject: Re: Need help with '69 Toro stereo; and WD-40, the miracle tool!

Robert J. Barry wrote:

> I'm on my way to Radio Shack tomorrow! I'd like to go to a double feature at
> the drive-in this Thursday with the family, and since they broadcast on AM,
> I'd better get this working!
> 
> >Don't play the radio until you get new speakers (at least the rear) and/or
> just turn the
> >balance so the rear is on alone. Otherwise you may blow the amp.
> >
> >Sparky
> 
> There is some warning to that effect; could the amp I have already be blown,
> since the front speaker works, just VERY faintly? How can you test one of
> these things (aside from getting a new speaker, obviously)?
> 

Bob,

The fact you get ANY sound would indicate to me you prolly have a viable amp 
yet. Its 
been my experience, they either work, or don't work.

My guess is that the back of the radio, by the heat sinks is very hot! If that 
is the 
condition, the transistors being over driven, The warped speaker is basically 
acting as 
a short, but the transistors don't know it. They prolly think you are jamming 
to Bob 
Marley or something......reminds be of those days of flame!  AARRGGHHH

What I did to test, was to find any old speaker (I used one of my boom box 
speakers, and 
hooked it up before taking everything apart....BINGO   I had tunes!

Sparky

------------------------------

From: "Gregory G. Kalkhoff" <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 03:50:09 -0300
Subject: Re: Need help with '69 Toro stereo; and WD-40, the miracle tool!

Dave Voorhis wrote:
> 
> 
> Speaking of which (pun intended), how do you get at the front speaker in a
> '66 or '67 Toro to replace it?  The speaker's shot in my '67, but I can't
> find a way to pull it without disassembling the entire dash.

There is no other way! You have to drop the steering column, the instrument 
cluster,
pull the radio, and then with a wee bit of luck, you may get a glimpse of the 
speaker! 
Lay on your head for about an hour, find the longest extensions you have 
(magnitized 
too) and prepare to go into the "feeling in the dark" mode! Good luck...we are 
all 
pulling for ya!

Sparky

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 16:36:15 -0300
Subject: FUBAR 350(please help!) 

My story:
Was cruising up I-81 between Roanoke and Salem here in VA when my 72
Vista-Cruiser began some major bogging. Started working the gas, trying it
wide open, halfway pumping it a some...just kept loosing speed.  Engine
finally gave it up and I managed to drift in the emergency lane for about a
mile and a half and get it up an exit ramp running on pure inertia.  4500
pounds take a long time to coast down from 70.  Though maybe the points were
loose (it happended to me once before. )  No dice.  Decided that a freeway
exit ramp was a lousy place to troubleshoot the ignition, so after checking
the points I managed to get the car to limp( more like crawl, claw, drag
itself) about 2 miles to a park-and-ride before I decided that I was going
to end up with all the rings in the turbo mufflers if I went any further. I
had a top speed of 30 at WOT. 
Took a nice long walk since I couldn't find anyone to give me a ride.  My
dad finally got my message and picked me up after I walked about 5 miles.
(halfway home)

The PROBLEM: 
The engine has a serious intermittent miss, kinda like the choke is stuck .
The engine doesn't want to wind past about 2 grand even with no load at WOT.
The car has a top speed of 30 with the go pedal to the floor and it
sputters, bucks, and frets.  At one point I had to get the car to climb a
mild grade.  I started loosing speed so I pulled it into low because I
though it was going to die,  the car slowed even more and picked up speed
again only after I upshifted again.  The car will only Idle with the
throttle about 1/8 the way open and it dies if you open up the throttle
under  no load.  I initially though it was leaning out but squirting gas
down the carbueretor didn't affect the engine either way.  I.e. the engine
din't run any better but didn't choke down either.  Must be the ingnition.
Checked the point gap and it didn't matter.  Had an extra coil, (off of the
tractor) went ahead and changed that, no better. The starter labors to turn
the engin over, seems like the engine fights it every time a cylinder hits
compression.  When the coil wire was left off we noticed the engine cranked
smoothly.  We were out of daylight before we had to come home and so we
haven't fooled with the timing yet.  The distributor wasn't loose though.
Gonna replace the points, condenser, rotor and cap just in case since the
parts are cheap(and due anyway).  
        My dad says the Olds is acting much like his f*rd van did when the
timing chain skipped a tooth.  The engine didn't recieve any treatment that
would cause the chain to skip.  I haven't wound it out in the last few days
and it hasn't been running backwards after I turn it off.  It does run
backwards if it gets a snootful of bad gas every now and then, but nothing
serious.  I can't see how the chain could jump while the car was cruising a
serene 70 mph with the engine turning only about 2 grand.  (overdrive
trans.)  The engine recieved a rebuild in march, it's been about 10 thoudand
miles.  It has a new timing chain set with the stock type chain and steel
gears.(maybe aluminum, I can't remember, but nothing special)  The cam is
new and a mild performance grind;  218 duration at .050 lift and .456 gross
lift for both intake and exhaust.  The car was cruising one second and
wheezing the next.  

Gonna go work on it in the morning.  Any suggestions and input would be
greatly appreciated.  I hate driving the truck.

Many thanks
Greg Pruett

'72 Vista-Cruiser; dead in the water


  

Insert philosophical and/or amusing phrase here-----------

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 06:09:43 -0300
Subject: Re: FUBAR 350(please help!)

Sorry this isn't a response to your problem but your "running backwards" 
comments reminded me of a trick I used to do with my 455 which had the 
starter hot-wired to a pushbutton....you could crank the car a few times 
and then wait a few seconds, then click the ignition on and it would 
start up instantly!  I suppose the spark was just right and the charge 
compressed in one of the cylinders.  Occasionally, though, the car would 
kick over seemingly in the wrong direction and run (horribly) for a 
while, spewing air-fuel mixture everywhere (don't think the white vapor 
could have been anything else).  Is this a bad thing to do to an engine?

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 07:12:23 -0300
Subject: Re: Odd GEN light problem, on '69 Toro...

On Tue, 20 Aug 1996, Robert J. Barry wrote:
> On my '69 Toronado, the GEN light glows a bit dimmer than the OIL light
> right next to it when the key is in run but the engine is stopped. This
> wouldn't concern me, except that the same GEN light glows dimly when I have
> the key turned to the accessory position.

I believe this is normal, Bob. Certainly the GEN light is supposed to 
glow dimly when the key is in the "ACC" position. Why I don't know, but 
the service manuals refer to this as normal. I can't tell you offhand 
whether the 2 lights should be diferent brightnesses when the key is in 
the on position but I don't think you have a problem.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 07:16:18 -0300
Subject: Re: Need help with '69 Toro stereo; and WD-40, the miracle tool!

Bob, re. your radio, a couple of suggestions: first, if you have any 
known good speaker kicking around there, try it as a test. At least that 
will tell you whether it's your speaker. An easy test.

Second, both of my cars had bad radios at some point. It was one of the 
easier and cheaper fixes I had. I used a local radio repair shop and in 
both cases they were able to replace a diode or something for very little 
cost. Most radio guys can handle these things pretty easily. Don't know 
if you can get it fixed by Thursday, though...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 07:21:15 -0300
Subject: Re: My Trip to Fusick's - Not!

On Tue, 20 Aug 1996, Peg O'Connor wrote:
> What is Rislone Concentrate?  Was that you who mentioned it, Greg B??

Yes, it was me. Had a choice between it and STP because it was the only 2 
kinds of additive the store in the small town I was in carried. It said 
it did all the usual things, dissolved junk in the oil, cleaned, enhanced 
lubrication, can't recall everything. Don't know if it did any good, 
honestly. My additive of choice is GM EOS...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 07:31:50 -0300
Subject: Re: WINTERIZING IN BUFFALO!

On Mon, 19 Aug 1996 Cdrpaulson@aol.com wrote:
> I live in Chesapeake, VA (Near Jim Chermack - whom Greg in Nova
> Scotia referred to - who is: 1)an incredible wealth of info; 2)an incredible
> wealth of parts; 3) an incredible-credible-credit (OW, my tongue) to the Olds
> hobby.  Everyone should take advantage of him, I have and will.)   

Jim was here this weekend on the USS Arleigh Burke, a guided-missile 
destroyer that is awesome. Wouldn't want those guys to be mad at me. :) 
Anyway, we had a great time and I'd like to echo Steve's comments. Jim 
accesses the list thru his neighbor John Blair's account and with the 
ship time he's here intermittently, but what a source! Got a vacuum trunk 
release for my '68 from him, never seen one of them before. He really 
knows his stuff too, so listen to the man when he speaks.

As for winterizing tips, here's what I do with the convertible. I don't 
put it up on stands because i don't have 4 of them, but I pump up the 
tires to about 40-45 pounds and park it on squares of foil to eliminate the 
rubber-concrete contact. Someone told me this was a good thing, don't 
know exactly why. Second, I fill the gas tank absolutely to the brim and 
add a bottle of fuel stabilizer and run it for 5 minutes or so to get the 
stabilizer into the lines and carb. This allegedly prevents the gas from 
gumming up the carb. Before doing all of this I do a fresh oil change so 
the stuff is new, and the last thing I do is disconnect the battery. 
That's about it. If I had some silica gel crystals I'd put them in the 
interior and trunk to absorb moisture, but I've never collected enough of 
them to do that. Doesn't seem to hurt anything. I've done this each 
winter for a few years, and store the car for about 5 months this way 
with no problems.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 07:50:19 -0300
Subject: '68 400 Vac Hose Routing

Here's the vacuum hose routing from a '68 service manual:

It depends on the transmission you have, whether or not you have air, and 
whether it is a W-30 or not.

Std. trans, no W-30 has no TVS and shows only 1 line from the carb to the 
vacuum advance on the distributor.

Std. trans W-30 shows a TVS: top port to the vac advance, middle port to 
the carb, bottom to the manifold.

Auto trans, no W-30 has no TVS: line from the carb goes to the vac 
advance, line from the manifold goes to the transmission vac modulator.

Auto trans, W-30 shows a TVS: top port to the vac advance, middle port to 
the carb, bottom to a tee connected to the port on the manifold. The 
other leg of the tee goes to the line to the trans modulator, but why you 
need a tee escapes me. That's what it shows, though.

The descriptions on these are a little cryptic so I may need to be 
corrected, but that's what I can offer. Hope it helps.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 09:07:06 -0300
Subject: Re: OCA Nat's 

Yes,
 
I was having trouble and you suggested selling it.  Since my car was also 
built in Arlington, could you mail me the vin and firewall tag info to my 
school email address?  I just want to know what number it was of that series 
run and whose was built first. :-)

The car is now okay.

Roger Borlase

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 18:20:18 -0300
Subject: Re: Race Rockets (Carb Information) 

Greg, 
	On my 72 350 currently using a 4010 600cfm. It runs well and smooth. 
As for times I 
havn't yet 1/4 miled the caryet so I can't tell form that perspective. 
Although, proir I was 
using an 1850 also 600cfm. From brand new this carb ran terrible always 
choking and flooding 
the car. Something was definitely wrong with this carb. A friend gave me the 
4010 just a 
month ago and the car runs 100 precent better. It's lighter too, the 4010 is 
all aluminum 
and the 1850 is steel. What a difference in weight.

	I read somewhere that the max cfm rating a 350 can take is somewhere 
around ~550. So 
don't be getting these 750-800 cfm double pumpers as they will work great upto 
600 cfm for 
the 350, after that it's all wasted.
- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: JJF97@uno.cc.geneseo.edu
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 10:18:05 -0300
Subject: Resto  Tips  .....

Here's another from Scot Swanson.... (notice the multiple enteries)

To get the old flange / reducer off of the inside of the good exhaust pipe, 
but not damage (save pipe going to muffler, trash the flange pipe to headder),
sacrafice an old pipe clamp.  Place it on to the reducer pipe, as near the good
exhaust pipe as possible, then tighten it up as hard as you can (without
busting the U bolt) and Presto!  It crushed the old pipe away from the inside
of the good pipe, and the pipe clamp serves as a handy strike to beat the old
pipe from the good pipe.

This is a good tip, but notice the multiple enteries???!!!

Scot has the right idea!
the more ideas you put on the Resto  Tips  heading, the better your chances
of winning great prizes while you help out your fellow restorer!!!!

Keep the resto tips coming in and good luck!

Resto Corner

- --joe ferrero

------------------------------

From: stevew@atsmail.gc.lucent.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 09:50:34 -0300
Subject: Re: FUBAR 350(please help!)

Gregg:

I had an experience with my '70 Cutlass that matched some of
the symptoms that you are having.

My problem was in the wiring to the ignition coil.  There's a 
fusible link(this is a wire with a low amp rating) in the wire that goes to
the ignition switch and this wire shorted out.

The engine would start, run, and then bog down and eventually
stop.  It's easy to check out-the fusible link will either be charred
or will be really hot after a few seconds of cranking the starter.

As a bit of irony, I had this problem on I-81 near the cutoff to 
West Virginia.

steve
OCA# 021608

------------------------------

From: kissrulz@gnn.com (Craig Dobbins)
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 05:57:37 -0300
Subject: Re: Return on 400 engine vacuum post 

Dave,
  Well my birthday is at the end of August (31st), and thankfully my parents 
are getting me an original chassis assembly manual for the car from Al Sandy, 
$70.00 for a nice one, but it'll be worth it in the long run.  It does run 
really hot I think though.  I had my heat light come on while I was sitting 
for about 5 min. once, but I did a flush job on the radiator after that (I'll 
bet that the flush I did was either the first or only second flush that 
radiator has ever had).  You should have seen the brown crap that came out of 
that thing!!  Since then though, it was ok, but then again, you never know.  
It could be a combination.  Another Thing -----> I have had the car totally 
die on my while driving for no apparent reason twice so far in the last four 
months.  I let it sit for a minute or two, and it starts right back up again, 
but only after I let it sit.  I was told this could be Vapor Lock, what do 
you think?  Or, possibly attributed to this vacuum thing?

                                                    Craig Dobbins
>Date:	Mon, 19 Aug 1996 13:48:45 -0400
>From:	Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
>Sender:	dpauliso@post.metrolink.net
>To:	kissrulz@gnn.com (Craig Dobbins)
>cc:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>Subject:	Return on 400 engine vacuum post
>
>At 05:24 PM 8/19/96, you wrote:
>>Dave,
>>  I just looked at my engine today (the carb is off, out being totally 
>>rebuilt and replated inside and out), so I had a good view of the entire
> top 
>>side of it.  I have three vacuums on the top of my intake manifold.  The
> one 
>>on the front was connected to my distributor 
>
>The one on the front of mine is connected to the vacuum modulator on the
>automatic transmission..
>
>>(on the left side, sort of a 
>>flying saucer shaped silver object, about an inch or so thick - I don't
> know 
>>what it is, I'm not that good yet),
>
>That's the vacuum advance diaphragm...
>
>>one on the rear of the intake connects to 
>>my cruise control, and the other on the rear connects to one of the two
> hoses 
>>coming off of my air cleaner.  
>
>I have three on the rear.  One is a large (1/4") metal tube connected to
> the
>power brakes.  One other goes to a small plastic canister mounted on the
>firewall of the car, which stores vacuum for the air conditioning controls,
>and the last goes to that thermostatic switch on the front of the intake
>manifold we've been talking about.
>
>>This is the way it was when I bought it.  
>>Could it be that maybe the one that goes to my distributor is sopposed to
> be 
>>attached to the post (instead of the carb), and the carb vaccum should go
> to 
>>the post?  That is, as opposed to just bypassing the post and going
> straight 
>>from the carb to the distributor?
>
>Maybe..
> 
>>I guess that would make sense, but why 
>>would anyone cut the lines and make a direct connection like that, any 
>>ideas????  
>
>Maybe it didn't work right.  That thermostatic switch (the "post") could be
>bad.  Or maybe it was a mechanic or owner who didn't give a crap, or didn't
>know how to hook it up after they disconnected it.
>
>>All of my other manifold vacuums are taken (I know definitly that 
>>the cruise control vacuum is correct, along with the air cleaner).  So,
> the 
>>top lead on the post, which is slightly smaller that the lower two leads 
>>coming off of the post, just may be a vent.  But then again, if it is, 
>>wouldn't that defeat the purpose of having the vacuums?  I mean, they're
> all 
>>connected and use the same post, so if you leave one open, your vacuum
> would 
>>be seriously decreased, wouldn't it?
>
>No, the "post" should switch the vacuum for one vacuum operated device
>between two sources, or it switches one source between two vacuum operated
>devices.  Mine works by switching the vacuum source from the carb vacuum to
>full manifold vacuum (or vice versa), depending on the temp of the engine
>(two sources, one device).  
>
>Example:  Say the top port is connected to the vacuum advance, the middle
>one is connected to the carb, and the bottom goes to the manifold vacuum.
>Depending on engine temp, the vacuum advance will operate on either
> manifold
>vacuum (cold engine, allowing vacuum to pass from the bottom to the top
>port) or carb vacuum (hot engine, allowing vacuum to pass from the middle
> to
>the top port).  That would be like my setup.
>
>Your engine is (obviously) different; the setup does not seem to be the
> same
>as mine.  I'm just guessing here, this is probably wrong.  In your case, if
>there is supposed to be a vent, there should be one vacuum source, and two
>vacuum operated devices (one of which is the vent).  The one source (coming
>off the carb) should either operate the vacuum advance, or just suck
> through
>the vent.  This doesn't make much sense to me.  
>
>Does anybody have a '68 shop manual with the proper hookup??
>
>>                                           Craig Dobbins
>
>>P.S.- Again though, does this vacuum affect the performance of the engine?
>
>Yes.
>  
>>Or does it just simply regulate the cooling of the engine.  Mine runs
> awful 
>>hot, but I do know that the '68's did run hot.    
>
>If the timing is too far off, the engine will run hot.  Do you have a fan
>shroud?  Fan clutch OK?  There may be other problems if your car runs very
>hot...
>--
>Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
>dpauliso@metrolink.net
>

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 09:38:34 -0300
Subject: RE: Con rod orientation

the chamfer I think that was refered to was on the crank not the rod. =
Some cranks have them some don't. If you have them the rod must go in =
one way. There is a side with clearance for this chamfer in the bearing. =
Should your crank not have this chamfer the rods can be installed either =
way although this not correct (although I have seen a lot of engines =
done this way) they still may run.

- ----------
From: 	Paul R. K. Kuromoto[SMTP:suntzu@ohana.com]
Sent: 	Monday, August 19, 1996 7:11 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Con rod orientation

A long long time ago there was a thread posted about the correct=20
orientation of the con rods with respect to each other on the journal. =20
>From what I remember there was a distinct way to "face" the rod when=20
pressing it onto the piston.  I remember something said about a =
"chamfer"=20
on the rod?  I can find no such obvious chamfer on my rods, will the=20
people who posted this thread long ago please contact me?

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: Todd Morris <tmorris@bt1dc18e.bet.ibm.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 11:20:59 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Flow Master Mufflers 

Forwarding note from: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett) 	Mon, 19 Aug 1996 
13:47:49 -0300 
 
 
Yes, pls post the results of the article.  I'm very interested, especially 
comparisons 
between the dynomax, borla and other turbo mufflers. 
 
 
   
>I remember a Hot Rod article that did a comparison test between some 
>performance mufflers.  It was printed within the last five years but I can't 
>remember exaclty how long ago it was.  I know I have it somewhere in my 
>collection.  It'll just take me awhile to sift through ten years worth of 
>magazines.  If you'd like me to snail-mail you a photocopy of the article 
>(once I find it) I'll be happy to.  Or if you'd just like me to e-mail the 
>net result that's fine too... whatever.  I remember they ranked the mufflers 
>in sound and performance and did some pretty extensive testing with a c*evy 
 
 
Todd Morris 

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 05:30:28 -0300
Subject: Re: FUBAR 350(please help!)

Greg Pruett wrote:
> 
> My story:
> Was cruising up I-81 between Roanoke and Salem here in VA when my 72
> Vista-Cruiser began some major bogging. Started working the gas, trying it
> wide open, halfway pumping it a some...just kept loosing speed.  
> 
> The PROBLEM:
> The engine has a serious intermittent miss, kinda like the choke is stuck .
> The engine doesn't want to wind past about 2 grand even with no load at WOT.
> The car has a top speed of 30 with the go pedal to the floor and it
> sputters, bucks, and frets. 
> 
> Gonna go work on it in the morning.  Any suggestions and input would be
> greatly appreciated.  I hate driving the truck.
> 
> Many thanks
> Greg Pruett
> 
>
> 
> 
> 
> Insert philosophical and/or amusing phrase here-----------


I always try to look for something simple first.  It doesn't hurt to 
try.  With the timing chain not so suspect now (don't discount it 
though), & your checks of the ignition system (keep looking for a 
primary short (coil wire/distributor) you might look at the exhaust 
system.

A plugged system will prevent air pumping through your engine.  With the 
engine running, do yu get a good strong exhaust flow?  Are there tell 
tail signs of damage to the mufflers & pipes?  Can you disconnect it & 
run the car?

Bill culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: DELPROPO@EMUVAX.EMICH.EDU
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 10:38:51 -0300
Subject: To:	OLDSMOBILE@CCN.CS.DAL.CA



------------------------------

From: DELPROPO@EMUVAX.EMICH.EDU
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 10:52:52 -0300
Subject: 71 Carb

Looking into finding a Holly carb for my 70 350 made be investigate what type
of carb my car cuurently had. The number stamped on it reads as follows        
      ....RC 70241251.......Acccording to a chart this carb was  designed for a
71 Olds,( 49 State usage NO CAL.) 4brl for a MANUAL transmition.   It is
currently mounted on my 70 350 AUTOMATIC. After finding this info, It made me
wonder that the carb must have came from a 442 Manual Trans car or some 
cutlass 
 with a 350-455 4 brl. Manual Trans. Should I have this carb rebuilt(new sleves
and jets ect.) Or buy a Holly....Or find the correct numbered carb......If I
buy another Holly ar Correct Rochester   this carb will be up for sale...   
b

------------------------------

From: bryce_smith@442.com (Bryceman)
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 10:57:39 -0300
Subject: Re: Resto  Tips  ..... 

>At 10:14 AM 8/19/96 -0700, GMARQUIS@oavax.csuchico.edu wrote:
>>  For sorting through your cans of nuts & bolts, cut the side out of
>>  a 1 gallon plastic anti-freeze container. Pour the nuts or bolts or
>>  whatever into the container. Then you can sort thru them with a lot
>>  of space. When your done pour the contents back into the can thru
>>  the old spout in the jug.

Vintage Oldsmobile hubcaps (taxicab or dog dish style works best) are great
for sorting nuts and bolts too, and when they are not being used for that,
you can use them to adorn your garage wall.

       Life, Liberty and the "Hot Pursuit" of Oldsmobiles
'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender  '65 442   '70 Cutlass Convertible
           Email: bryceman@442.com  URL: www.442.com

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 09:58:09 -0300
Subject: Re: WINTERIZING IN BUFFALO! 

>I kinda thought that the WD-40 would burn up if you ran the 
>engine while spraying it in the carb, and since it would burn, I didn't 
>really understand what this guy meant about coating the inside of the engine 
>since there wouldn't really be much left to coat anything - It would all be 
>burnt up and gone.

I'd skip the WD-40 idea. The oil film left behind when you switch the engine
off isn't going anywhere. The most you might want to do next spring is to
pull the coil wire and crank the engine on the starter for a few five-second
bursts to get the oil moving around a bit and build a little pressure. The
full tank of gas and stabilizer sounds good. Keep in mind that once the
temperature of the parked car stabilizes with its surroundings, you won't
be getting condensation in the tank; that's a concern if you're _driving_
it in the winter and parking a chilled car in a warm garage every night.

Pump the tires up to their maximum pressure or support the car off the
ground with axle stands under the suspension. Close the windows to keep
critters out, remove the battery and store it indoors.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 10:00:30 -0300
Subject: Re: Need help with '69 Toro stereo; and WD-40, the miracle tool! 

>Right now, when I turn the radio on at full volume, I barely hear it through
>the front speaker, and get nothing from the rear. Could this separate amp be
>the culprit?

I read all the other followups for this so far, but thought of one other
possibility no one's mentioned -- what if the amplifier isn't getting any
power? Is it possible for the radio to shove its output through a dead
amplifier, just enough to be audible? Just wondering...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 10:02:16 -0300
Subject: Re: Odd GEN light problem, on '69 Toro... 

>On my '69 Toronado, the GEN light glows a bit dimmer than the OIL light
>right next to it when the key is in run but the engine is stopped. This
>wouldn't concern me, except that the same GEN light glows dimly when I have
>the key turned to the accessory position.

Don't be concerned; it's normal. That glowing in the accessory position may
even be mentioned in your owner's manual; it was in our '69 Pontiac manual.
It simply signals a low current drain from the battery.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 10:06:02 -0300
Subject: Re: FUBAR 350(please help!) 

>The starter labors to turn
>the engin over, seems like the engine fights it every time a cylinder hits
>compression.

Ah. My old LeMans acted like this, and when I checked the timing I found it
was _extremely_ messed up, firing its cylinders on the compression stroke
during cranking and not getting going until it somehow got enough momentum 
to get past that.

>When the coil wire was left off we noticed the engine cranked
>smoothly.

Bingo. Check your timing. Sounds like you've skipped a tooth there. If
you're lucky, perhaps it's simply that the distributor clamp worked itself
loose and let the distributor twist in its mount.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 11:25:10 -0300
Subject: RE: >>>4-SPEED OWNERS!!! READ THIS!!!!<<<

Uh! Wouldn't that be a factory fork?

- ----------
From: 	mefco@sprynet.com[SMTP:mefco@sprynet.com]
Sent: 	Monday, August 19, 1996 9:35 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Re: >>>4-SPEED OWNERS!!! READ THIS!!!!<<<

Well, here's a reply. Forget the factory fork, get one from your GM dealer and 
use it. I've purchased two in the last few years, and they are fine.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: Todd Morris <tmorris@bt1dc18e.bet.ibm.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 13:25:19 -0300
Subject: Exhaust shop recommendations 

 
 
Listpeople in the Wash,DC metro area--can anybody recommend a good exhaust 
shop.  Show quality 
not needed, just a shop that does solid performance oriented work at 
reasonable price.   
thanks 
 
Todd Morris 
71 442

------------------------------

From: "Gregory G. Kalkhoff" <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 14:47:13 -0300
Subject: Re: Odd GEN light problem, on '69 Toro...

Greg Beaulieu wrote:

> I believe this is normal, Bob. Certainly the GEN light is supposed to
> glow dimly when the key is in the "ACC" position. Why I don't know, but
> the service manuals refer to this as normal. I can't tell you offhand
> whether the 2 lights should be diferent brightnesses when the key is in
> the on position but I don't think you have a problem.
> 

Greg,

Thats what I think also. I can remember that my 62 Chubby did the same thing.

Sparky

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:55:50 -0300
Subject: Re: Need help with '69 Toro stereo; and WD-40, the miracle tool!

Andrew C. Green wrote:
> 
> Is it possible for the radio to shove its output through a dead
> amplifier, just enough to be audible? Just wondering...

Possible.  Not likely but possible.  Given the fact that add-on amps are
connected directly to the speaker outputs of the radio,  enough drive
from the radio can cause some sound to "blead" through to the speakers.

Is it IS a booster amp, then you should be able to disconnect the
booster and hook a speaker directly up to the radio to test it's output.

Good sound direct from radio?  Booster = ca-ca.
No sound from radio?  Radio = ca-ca.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 14:22:58 -0300
Subject: Re: My Trip to Fusick's - Not!

On Tue, 20 Aug 1996, Doug Ahern wrote:
> never ever ever run quaker state.  is it a parafin base. wax. wax will end
> up covering all of you engine components.  I run Castrol 20w50 in all of
> my cars (nissan L6 200K miles, olds 330, 50K miles, dodge 318 30K miles) 
> year round.  for low rpm v8 engines ( < 6000rpm ), I think the heavier
> the better. 

> First thing to do is get valvoline or castrol back in there.  do you have an
> oil pressure guage?

Doug, funny thing, last night I went out and bought 5 qts of Castrol 
20W50. Your advice was the same as that of Jim Chermack who was here, and 
he said he had heard similar thigs about Quaker State. Going to try it 
this week.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Peter_Teubel_at_Safety1st-MA@harte-hanks.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 14:21:35 -0300
Subject: [none]

 h,* v  v  8  " D j 
	id AA840569121; P ~  " D j 
 h,* v  v  8  
Date: P ~  " D j 
 h,* v  v  8  " D j 
Date: P ~  " D j 
 h,* v  v  8  " D j 
Date: P ~  " D j 
 h,* v  v  8  " D j 
From: Peter_Teubel_at_Safety1st-MA@harte-hanks.com
Message-Id: <9607208405.AA840569121@harte-hanks.com>
To: oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: New Aquisition

     Greetings to all!
     
        I'm now the proud owner of yet another Oldsmobile.  Just got a 1982 
     Olds 98 Regency.  Sweeeeeet car.  Converted diesel (now 307 gas), mint 
     interior, excellent exterior.  That makes 3 ('86 Cutlass Ciera, '51 
     98, '82 98).  All I need now is an early 60's and 70's 98 and I'll be 
     all set.
     
     
     -Pete

------------------------------

From: Graham Stewart <graham.stewart@utoronto.ca>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 14:31:25 -0300
Subject: Re: My Trip to Fusick's - Not!

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
> 
> Last weekend I decided to spend a few days of my vacation taking the Olds
> down to Conneticut to see the sights and visit Fusick's to let my credit
> card get a little exercise. About 250 miles
> into the trip, my tick (which I had always thought was a lifter)
> returned, first mildly, then much louder than before, so that it would
> best be described as a clattering sound in the top of the engine. 

> Portland. Arriving there, the car was not at all happy and seemed to be
> running on only 7 cylinders... down on power and even a bit of vibration
> on the highway. 

Greg: My 2 cents (Canadian) 0.014 (U.S.)

I used to lose oil pressure on the highway, when it was normal around town (74 
Ninety-Eight, 455).  If I 
coasted downhill pressure returned to normal; hard acceleration would result 
in lower pressure.  I spent more 
time looking at the pressure gauge the the road.  After some consultation, I 
changed my method of oil changes. 
Used to drive it up onto two 6 inch wooden ramps.  Gave good clearance, but 
angled the oil pan enough that not 
everything was coming out, especially that heavier gunge and junk.  I figured 
that this material was getting 
sucked against the oil pump screen at higher RPMs while resting on the pan at 
idle and lower RPMs.  After two 
oil changes with the car on the ground (oil pan was horizontal, not angled, I 
was more uncomfortable) I never 
had this problem again.  Of course, this doesn't deal with your lack of power 
problem too well, so ...

Anyway, Good luck ... 

Graham Stewart
graham.stewart@utoronto.ca

------------------------------

From: Graham Stewart <graham.stewart@utoronto.ca>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 14:52:28 -0300
Subject: Re: Early 70s 98s

Peter_Teubel_at_Safety1st-MA@harte-hanks.com wrote:

>      Greetings to all!
> 
>         I'm now the proud owner of yet another Oldsmobile.  Just got a 1982
>      Olds 98 Regency.  Sweeeeeet car.  Converted diesel (now 307 gas), mint
>      interior, excellent exterior.  That makes 3 ('86 Cutlass Ciera, '51
>      98, '82 98).  All I need now is an early 60's and 70's 98 and I'll be
>      all set.

Pete: maybe you should try for the mid-year issue 1972 Ninety-Eight Regency. 
First year of the Regency, I 
believe, and was made specifically "honour Oldsmobile's 75th year in the 
vehicle building business". (Standard 
Catalog of American Cars).  I don't have production numbers, but there can't 
have been that many made ...

Graham Stewart (very happy owner of a 74 98 Regency)
graham.stewart@utoronto.ca

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:15:42 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: problems w/ Toro 425 

Sorry about this long post, but it's all Oldsmobile!!

Michael,
Here is the latest BB block and head info from the FAQ, and a list posting 
about
a "drill spot" on the 400s and 425 as a means to identify the 39 or 45 degree 
cam lifter angle.  The drill spot info is incomplete, but I hope to pass that 
info along soon.

Could you check your block for that drill spot and also reply back (directly 
to 
me at dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu) with the block casting number and id?  
Thanks.

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

- ----- Big Block Block ID/Codes -----
ID/                       Casting
Code   Year(s)     CID    Number   Notes
- ----   -------     ---    ------   -----
  A    '65         425    381917 ???   1st year, big cars.
  B    '65         400    389298   442 only, one year only.
  D    '66 - '67   425    389244   Big-car engine.  Toro is different
                                   internally.
  E    '66 - '67   400    390925   442 engine [VERY rare].
  F    '68 - '72   455    396021   Most common big block.
  Fa   '72 - '76   455    396021   Very common big block.
  G    '68 - '69   400    396026   442/Vista/etc. engine.
  L    '76??       455    231788   Marine?  Don't know what it is, but
                                   has been seen.

- ----- Big Block Block Unit Numbers -----
Pre-68 engines also had an engine unit number stamped on to the machined 
pad at the front of the RH head.  I believe that the Toronado 425's 
started with a T rather than a V.
V 001001 1965 400 442's
V 100001 1966 400 442's
V 200001 G 1967 400 4V 442's, including W30
V 200002 1967 400 2V 442's, [etc.?] Turnpike Cruiser

- ----- Big Block Head ID/Codes, Casting Numbers -----
If it's an A, B, or C head, look for the engine unit number/ID code as 
detailed above under 'block ID'.  1967 C heads had this number; 68-9's 
did not.  So, if your C head has a stamped ID like V2023456G in figures 
about 1/4" tall, that'd be from a 1967 400-4V, possibly a W30.  If no 
such ID is stamped in, then it's either a 68-69 C head, or a 1967 head 
from the left side of the engine.  Check the other end of the other 
head.

ID/                         Casting
Code  Year(s)    CID  CCs   Number   Notes
- ----  ---------  ---  ---   -------  -----
 A    '65        400  80    383821   Unique 3/8" stud & nut rocker
                 425                 mounting, using a 3-piece rocker
                                     pivot assembly
 B    '66        425  80    389395   Toro's and 442's got the big
                                     [2.072"] valves.
 C    '67 - '69  425  80    394548   Toro's and 442's got big valves.
                 455                 Rumored to flow the best of all bb
                                     heads.  Can still be found.
 D*   '68 - '69  400  69.75 400370   W30 & non-AC H/O's.  All big-valve.
                 455  69.75 400370
 E    '68 - '70  455  80    403686   455's in general, with 442/Toro's
                                     having big valves.  Hardened 
                                     exhaust seats.
 F*   '70        455  80    404438   W30's.  All big-valve units.
 G    '71        455  80    409100   Generic 455 use, big valves in the
                                     usual applications.
 Ga   '72        455  80    409100   Hardly any, if any at all, were 
                                     big-valve units.
 H*   '71        455  80    409160   W30's.  Big Valve units.
 J    '73 - '76  455  80    411783   All 445's.  'Smog heads',
                                     restrictive exhaust valve pockets.
                                     No big valve units.
 K**  '73 - '76  **   80    ??????   Marine, irrigation, W30/Toro
                                     replacement head.  Most were big
                                     valve units.

"I could use some help from 425 owners and Early-400 owners. I think I may have
found a key to external ID of the 0.921" lifter/39 degree cam bank angle
engines. Please, any owners or mechanics who have at their disposal any
  65-67 425 engine
  65-67 400 engine, block casting ID "E""

"Please look at the rib that marks the block as a BB- on the RH end of the 
block
ID shelf, just behind the water pump... the vertical rib that runs from the
timing cover back to the intake... look on the top edge, probably along the RH
side sort of, for a DRILL SPOT. Maybe up to 1/4" diameter, maybe at a 45 degree
angle or so.  Kinda like they started to drill thru it or into it, then
stopped. Should be obvious if it's there."

- ---------------
but is it a Toro engine?  yeah, its in a Toro, but how
to verify the block?! I had the car since 1983, and it sure looks like its
right, but how to tell for sure? 

Michael and size 8 running shoes

------------------------------

From: R4C442@aol.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 15:53:20 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds Recovered 

Hey Dink!

------------------------------

From: R4C442@aol.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 15:56:05 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds Recovered 

Hey Dink!
       Sometimes I see Brunswick & sometimes I see Dayton after your
messages.
Where are you man?

R4C442   65 442   Dayton
PS: I am the original owner....anybody out there owned one any longer?

------------------------------

From: Joanne Beausoleil <jbeausol@ftp.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:11:55 -0300
Subject: Everyone should read this.

Sorry for the 170 lines, don't remember what it was though. Looked =
through
all my sent mail and couldn't find anything like it. I will stay off the =
list from now on, since my opinion of freedom of speech doesn't sit well =
in this group. This is the last piece of mail I will "bother" you =
important people with.

- ----------
From: 	Andrew A. Senko[SMTP:senko@reston.ans.net]
Sent: 	Tuesday, August 20, 1996 10:43 AM
To: 	jbeausol@ftp.com
Subject: 	Re: RE: And We're Off  Was: Toothbrush

Joanne Beausoleil said:

> I would think that there is a sense of camaraderie on this list,=20
> especially between the people who have been on the longest, and have=20
> contributed
> the most. I think that is what is being witnessed here.. it's just=20
> camaraderie, so
> lighten up. Some of you are worse than a bunch of old ladies crabbing =
at=20
> a quilting! :)
=20
Joanne,

I am writing this personal response to you, rather than to the entire =
Olds
mailing list, because you seem to be sticking up for the right to send
whatever you want to the Olds list.

The toothbrush incident did not suddenly cause all of this turmoil.  It =
was
the latest of a long list of abuses on the list.  And in my opinion, you =
are
one of those abusers.  You sent a message of over 170 lines of complete
irrelevence to the list because you thought it was funny.  I have tried =
to
educate you on the proper and improper uses of mailing lists but you =
refuse
to acknowledge the very simple guidelines.  Why do you continue to =
publicly
oppose the rules that exist?  If you've never been flamed before, and =
you
continue with your "lighten up, I'll do as I please" attitude, you will
sometime soon piss off a group of people and become the target of many
flames.

You seem to think that this mailing list is your living room and that =
you
can say whatever you want because we are all friends.  Well, the truth =
is,
not everyone wants to chatter just for the sake of chattering.

Never have we asked you not to write what you want.  We only ask that =
you
write it somewhere appropriate.

And don't subscribe to the line of thinking that says "just hit the =
delete
button".  Many members of the list have switched from the main list to =
the
digest because of the volume of mail that it generates.  You can't =
simply
"delete" a message that you don't want, because the digest is only one
message.  You'd lose the whole thing.  The digest is routinely about =
2900
lines long.  This could be really shaved down.

I have received personal messages from some people that contribute where
others can't.  And they would like to see less chatter.  Mailing lists =
are
supposed to be an efficient way to spread information.  If I have to =
weed
out messages, or use the delete key, then the efficiency is gone and I =
am
wasting my time.

You show all the signs of an internet novice.  Please take the time to
learn the rules of this road.  It's not a free-for-all.
- --=20
Drew Senko

------------------------------

From: R4C442@aol.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:13:16 -0300
Subject: Re: >>>4-SPEED OWNERS!!! READ THIS!!!!<<< 

Okay! Okay! Yes, I have a 4-speed car.
No
No
No

R4C442  65 442

------------------------------

From: R4C442@aol.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:16:12 -0300
Subject: Re: >>>4-SPEED OWNERS!!! READ THIS!!!!<<< 

Oh, by the way...my factory clutch lasted about 19 years at which point I
installed a 
Centerforce Dual-Friction Centrifical clutch. It remains an oustanding unit.

R4C442    65 442

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:41:32 -0300
Subject: Re: Everyone should read this.

Senko,
Who made you God? I bet you have a lot of friends. If all Oldsmobile owner 
were 
like you I'd drive a Yugo.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: DESIMONEP@aol.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:46:21 -0300
Subject: Re: Race Rockets (Carb Information) 

I just put a NEW Edelbrock rochester 850 cfm on my 455. It runs fantastic, it
is fully adjustablenot only at idle and WOT but also at part throttle for
getting some mileage on those long road trips. If you remove the edelbrock
tags from the carb, it would look stock to anyone that didn't look REAL
hard!! (Except of course that it's really clean.)

Edelbrock part # 1910 w/ electric choke  Price about $400 but worth it!

Phil De Simone
desimonep@aol.com
1968 Olds Cutlass "S" Convertible

------------------------------

From: DESIMONEP@aol.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:50:30 -0300
Subject: Re: FUBAR 350(please help!) 

I would look more closely at your distributor, what kind and how old is it? I
had the same type of symptoms and it turned out to be my Dist. So as usual,
you guys will get to know me well enough, I replaced the entire ignition
system with an MSD 6-AL ignition box, a blaster 3 coil, and a Pro Billet MSD
Distributor, one solid piece of aluminum machined down and triggered
magnetically.

Needless to say my ignition problem was solved, and the car runs great!
(Accept of course, I don't know how long I can hide the checkbook from my
wife!!) Any rooms for rent out there with a garage?!?!

Phil De Simone
desimonep@aol.com
1968 Olds Cutlass "S" Convertible

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 01:53:32 -0300
Subject: Re: Everyone should read this.

Joanne,
	Please don't leave on account of this unsolicited message you had 
recieved. I believe that this list 
needs people to join it and contribute not the reverse. You have much 
knowledge that requires to be shared 
with the rest of us. That's what we are here for. Do not take this messge too 
seriuosly, I think the message 
has gotten through to all of us and should not be directed soley to you. 
	Do not take the 'freedom of speech' out of context, as we are all here 
of our own will and we should 
speak freely, about oldsmobiles and the like. That's what we all agreed to do 
when we joined. I have been part 
of this list from when it first was created, out of rec.autos, 
rec.auto_antiques, rec.rodncustom, etc.. It was 
and still is a much needed list as the c*evy/f*rd crowd was getting a little 
too crowded for us. Please 
understand that we are here to discuss oldsmobiles becuase we either have a 
need to share our knoweldge and 
experiences with others or we want to learn more about the cars we love to own 
and drive. Our mutual goal with 
this list is more than an individual gain but strives to keep oldsmobiles on 
top, where it belongs. I how you 
agree with me. Please reconsider your leaving the list and stay and 
contribute. 
- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: DESIMONEP@aol.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:50:34 -0300
Subject: Re: Race Rockets (Carb Information)  

<< I read somewhere that the max cfm rating a 350 can take is somewhere
around ~550. So 
 don't be getting these 750-800 cfm double pumpers as they will work great
upto 600 cfm for 
 the 350, after that it's all wasted. >>

I have the new Edelbrock 850 cfm Rochester on my car, and in the manual it
says the carb will work on 305 cubic inches and larger to 500+ HP.

------------------------------

From: Michael Blennerhassett <blenner@fhs.csu.McMaster.CA>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:58:47 -0300
Subject: Re: Everyone could read this.

OK, so here goes some more bandwidth despite my best intentions.

People that write unwanted messages causing annoyance to most of the 
recipients should voluntarily QUIT.  Which in this case seems to be Mr 
Senko, since I think our deadly serious and focussed newsgroup runs about 
99% Olds stuff, and can tolerate humour quite well.

A self appointed policeman in a newsgroup?  No thanks.

Lets just get on it, the way its been going is fine.


Michael +/- 66 toro in Canada
I work, I play, I laugh, I drive... 

------------------------------

From: Todd Morris <tmorris@bt1dc18e.bet.ibm.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 18:05:23 -0300
Subject: 2 1/2" exhaust and large 

 
 
Since I'm contemplating a complete exhaust system redo I'd appreciate all 
thoughts on whether 
it makes sense to upgrade to the large 2 1/2" or even 3" pipes.  I don't 
formally race but 
occassionally enjoy some speed on the street.  My car is a 71 442 4 sp, mild 
cam, 455 bored 
.06 over.  Any thoughts..... 
 
Todd Morris 

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 02:24:23 -0300
Subject: Re: Race Rockets (Carb Information) 

DESIMONEP@aol.com wrote:
> 
> << I read somewhere that the max cfm rating a 350 can take is somewhere
> around ~550. So
>  don't be getting these 750-800 cfm double pumpers as they will work great
> upto 600 cfm for
>  the 350, after that it's all wasted. >>
> 
> I have the new Edelbrock 850 cfm Rochester on my car, and in the manual it
> says the carb will work on 305 cubic inches and larger to 500+ HP.

Well I have to get that material to be exact on the wording, however I stil 
remain that a 350 
or smaller breathes to a max cfm rating. I think the info said about 550 cfm, 
after that point 
it cannot breath anymore. The rest of the cfm capability of the carb is not 
used, unless that 
engine can increase it's cfm rating. It would be a real waste of money to try 
and get an engine 
to utilize a carb that's way too big for it. Havn't you heard of people at the 
drag or other 
drag places say that the engine is over carbed. Usaully over jetted but that 
can be fixed 
simply by replacing the jets to a smaller size. Over carbbing an egine usually 
means too much 
carburator period. Not much you can do about that except change the carb to a 
lower cfm rated 
one. Yes a 305 will work however most of the carb's capabilities will never be 
realized becuase 
the engines volumetric efficiency is just not there. Please someone correct me 
if I'm wrong.
- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 02:28:28 -0300
Subject: Re: 2 1/2" exhaust and large

Todd Morris wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Since I'm contemplating a complete exhaust system redo I'd appreciate all 
thoughts on whether
> it makes sense to upgrade to the large 2 1/2" or even 3" pipes.  I don't 
formally race but
> occassionally enjoy some speed on the street.  My car is a 71 442 4 sp, mild 
cam, 455 bored
> .06 over.  Any thoughts.....
> 
> Todd Morris

Todd, 
	a year ago I would suggest the 2 1/2 since that's what I had 
done about 4 years ago but lately I have been swaying toward the 3". My 
only worry would be not having the valves float on me. Bad things happen 
when this phenomenon occurs.
- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 17:38:40 -0300
Subject: OK, Everyone... ENOUGH!!!

* THIS IS AN OFFICIAL WARNING FROM THE ADMINISTRATOR OF THE OLDS LIST *

Never had to do this before, and hopefully will not have to again.

Any further discussion of the "Everyone Should Read This" post should be 
taken to PRIVATE EMAIL. I do not intend to let this become a flame-fest. 
I will not hesitate to toss offenders whose postings on this subject are 
of a personal nature and which appear significantly after the date and 
time of this warning.

I will be communicating personally with those involved in an effort to 
resolve the matter. In the meantime, please, everyone, review the 
guidelines sent to you in the list welcome message that discuss list 
operations before posting. In light of recent events it is necessary that 
all members try to respect the guidelines for use of the list and each 
other. 

Thank you. 

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: DELPROPO@EMUVAX.EMICH.EDU
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 17:43:34 -0300
Subject: Restoration Info

Has anyone out there restored the hood hinges to the factory orriginal
appearanc and how?     Thanks......

------------------------------

From: DELPROPO@EMUVAX.EMICH.EDU
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 17:46:36 -0300
Subject: Lansing Mich Capital Event

I am thinking of attending the down town car show in Lansing Mich this weekend
 I am wondering if anyone has ever attended this event and how it was.

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 20:50:31 -0300
Subject: Re: Everyone should read this.

Joanne Beausoleil wrote:
> 
> I will stay off the list from now on, since my opinion of freedom of 
> speech doesn't sit well in this group

That would be a *FEW* members of this group, Joanne.  Very few.

> This is the last piece of mail I will "bother" you important people 
> with.

Not being all that important, I assume you aren't talking to me.   ;)
And I hope that was said in frustration and you didn't really mean it.

WHICH BRINGS US TO WHAT Drew Senko wrote:

> ...because you seem to be sticking up for the right to send whatever 
> you want to the Olds list.

No, actually I think she was taking the same position that I and 
several others did -- "LIGHTEN UP!".  She's right.  If you'd quit all 
this carrying over such minor stuff, these things would die a natural 
death.

> And in my opinion, you are one of those abusers.  

Oooo.  Does she qualify for government assistance?

> You sent a message of over 170 lines of complete irrelevence to the 
> list because you thought it was funny.  

Bad form, Joanne.  Never try to joke with the humorless.

> I have tried to educate you on the proper and improper uses of mailing 
> lists but you refuse to acknowledge the very simple guidelines.  

I guess that's a reference to the very popular "Boys and Girls" story of 
a few days ago.  Two thumbs down.

> Why do you continue to publicly oppose the rules that exist?  

Please forward copies.  I musta missed the "public opposition" ones.

> If you've never been flamed before, and you continue with your "lighten 
> up, I'll do as I please" attitude, you will sometime soon piss off a 
> group of people and become the target of many flames.

What's that saying?  "What goes around, comes around"?

> ...because we are all friends.  

That may be in some doubt.

> Well, the truth is, not everyone wants to chatter just for the sake of 
> chattering.

Speaking of chatter...

> Never have we asked you not to write what you want.  We only ask that 
> you write it somewhere appropriate.

Hey, pal.  What's this "WE" stuff.  Don't include me in that!

> They would like to see less chatter.  

As I would like to see less bitching.

> You show all the signs of an internet novice.  Please take the time to
> learn the rules of this road.  It's not a free-for-all.

And you, sir, show all the signs of being a self-appointed censor.  Who 
voted you in office?  We have an list administrator, you know.  His name 
is Greg Beaulieu (ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca).  

While I can agree with your approach to email Joanne directly, I cannot 
agree with your condescending attitude towards another member of this 
list.  It is obvious that you feel superior to someone you perceive as 
less experienced as you.  I think YOU still have a few things to learn...

The 66 Toro and Mike

PS: It is interesting to note that when I flipped open the dictionary 
    to check the spelling of "perceive", it open to the page marked 
    with "Poser".  Hmmm....


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 17:56:58 -0300
Subject: Re: Race Rockets (Carb Information)  -Reply 

>Yes a 305 will work however most of the carb's capabilities will never
>be realized becuase  the engines volumetric efficiency is just not there.
>Please someone correct me if I'm wrong.
>--  Regards
>Fernando Proietto

I read the same thing, Fernando.  There's a chart I'll try to find that tells
the max CFM's for particular CID's.  It might be nice to put it in the FAQ's...

BTW, what ever happened with the 442 paint stripe blueprints? =-)

- -Blaine

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 12:57:06 -0300
Subject: Re: 

Peter_Teubel_at_Safety1st-MA@harte-hanks.com wrote:
>=20
> =1Eh,*=FFv=08=FFv=06=9A8=97"=83=C4=08j=02=8DF=80=16P=FFv=08=FFv=06=9A=F6=
=97"=83=C4
>         id AA840569121; P=9A~=97"=83=C4=08j=03=8D=86x=FF=16P=FFv=08=FFv=
=06=9A2=97"=83=C4
> =1Eh,*=FFv=08=FFv=06=9A8=97
> Date: P=9A~=97"=83=C4=08j=03=8D=86x=FF=16P=FFv=08=FFv=06=9A2=97"=83=C4
> =1Eh,*=FFv=08=FFv=06=9A8=97"=83=C4=08j=02=8DF=80=16P=FFv=08=FFv=06=9A=F6=
=97"=83=C4
> Date: P=9A~=97"=83=C4=08j=03=8D=86x=FF=16P=FFv=08=FFv=06=9A2=97"=83=C4
> =1Eh,*=FFv=08=FFv=06=9A8=97"=83=C4=08j=02=8DF=80=16P=FFv=08=FFv=06=9A=F6=
=97"=83=C4
> Date: P=9A~=97"=83=C4=08j=03=8D=86x=FF=16P=FFv=08=FFv=06=9A2=97"=83=C4
> =1Eh,*=FFv=08=FFv=06=9A8=97"=83=C4=08j=02=8DF=80=16P=FFv=08=FFv=06=9A=F6=
=97"=83=C4
> From: Peter_Teubel_at_Safety1st-MA@harte-hanks.com
> Message-Id: <9607208405.AA840569121@harte-hanks.com>
> To: oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
> Subject: New Aquisition
>=20
>      Greetings to all!
>=20
>         I'm now the proud owner of yet another Oldsmobile.  Just got a =
1982
>      Olds 98 Regency.  Sweeeeeet car.  Converted diesel (now 307 gas), =
mint
>      interior, excellent exterior.  That makes 3 ('86 Cutlass Ciera, '5=
1
>      98, '82 98).  All I need now is an early 60's and 70's 98 and I'll=
 be
>      all set.
>=20
>=20
>      -Pete


Pete:

wonderful.  Does that mean you are looking?  I am currently trying to=20
fix a 1984 toronado w/AC & vacuum hose troubles.  It sure is a nice=20
driver though.  That 307 is smooth & reasonably powerful.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 13:01:51 -0300
Subject: Re: My Trip to Fusick's - Not!

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 20 Aug 1996, Doug Ahern wrote:
> > never ever ever run quaker state.  is it a parafin base. wax. wax will end
> > up covering all of you engine components.

> Doug, funny thing, last night I went out and bought 5 qts of Castrol
> 20W50. Your advice was the same as that of Jim Chermack who was here, and
> he said he had heard similar thigs about Quaker State. Going to try it
> this week.
> 
> Greg Beaulieu        


Greg:

I believe that you are wise.  The biggest joke in oil is green can 
Quaker State here in AL.  We don't have much on which to look down, so 
this has to be bad. You'll be happy with these new oil types.  You 
wouldn't buy old tire technology would you?

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 18:07:17 -0300
Subject: RE: 2 1/2" exhaust and large

Go with the 3 inch, then you can forget about any exghaust prblems no matter 
what you do later.


- ----------
From: 	Todd Morris[SMTP:tmorris@BT1DC18E.bet.ibm.com]
Sent: 	Tuesday, August 20, 1996 5:05 PM
To: 	Olds List
Subject: 	2 1/2" exhaust and large

 
 
Since I'm contemplating a complete exhaust system redo I'd appreciate all 
thoughts on whether 
it makes sense to upgrade to the large 2 1/2" or even 3" pipes.  I don't 
formally race but 
occassionally enjoy some speed on the street.  My car is a 71 442 4 sp, mild 
cam, 455 bored 
.06 over.  Any thoughts..... 
 
Todd Morris 

------------------------------

From: John & Robin Whitcore <retrotek@phoenixat.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 14:21:35 -0300
Subject: Radiator Paint

Hi Everyone!

We need to touch up our radiator.  What type of paint should we use to 
do it?

Thanks!

Robin

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 13:31:42 -0300
Subject: Re: Everyone should read this.

> 
> I don't know anything about lists, etiquet, or anything else, but I thought 
that Senko & Joanne were rather careful of everyone elses rights 
& feelings.  I confess to being very surprised at these messages.  It is 
hoped that we can work together & that we have enough respect for each 
other to set us straight if we get out of hand.  I know that I'd 
appreciate some friendly advice.

When there is something that I don't have need for or is not of interest 
ot me, I just assume that others need or want this material.  My delete 
button is at work after I give the message a couple of chuckles & I go 
to the next.  There are many messages to which I don't respond (not that 
many I guess) & I print & save in files.  The person that sent the 
message might feel that it wasn't appreciated, but it usually is.  
Others I save & give a response (too many others I suppose).

The snide remarks & jokes seldom get very far & to me are refreshing.  I 
love the tech stuff very much, but honestly I can read a tech manual 
nearly as quickly as the many messages on the list each day.  The 
toothbrush thing did get a little far out, but the kind members of the 
list slowed it down & stopped it.  I believe that it was a lesson to all 
of us.  I felt very good in thinking that our family had gotten past a 
rough spot & now we knew a little more about us - we wouldn't get into 
that trap again very easily.  This is a sigh of respect & caring that no 
policeman could ever hope to make happen.  I hope that we give ourselves 
a chance to grow.

Please accept my apologies for the long message.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: "Gregory G. Kalkhoff" <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 20:43:12 -0300
Subject: Re: Radiator Paint

John & Robin Whitcore wrote:
> 
> Hi Everyone!
> 
> We need to touch up our radiator.  What type of paint should we use to
> do it?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Robin

John and Robin,

Good question! How much are you going to touch up?  If you are going through 
the bother 
of touching up, why not pull the entire radiator and do the whole thing?

Eastwood Co handles a special raditor paint (black) that is supposed to be 
good. It 
somehow has properties that cover the radiator, yet does not clog or thicken 
the fins as 
to occlude air-flow. I have used enamel in the past and it seemed to work 
well. However, 
this was on a show car that does not get driven much and therefore I do not 
really know 
how much of a factor the paint is when it comes to air flow.

Anyone else have input on this?

Sparky

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 18:43:43 -0300
Subject: List Guidelines

For everyone's benefit, here is the message you would have received when 
you subscribed. Please take the time to read it again, particularly in 
light of recent events. I would also appreciate a general review of 
subscribe and unsubscribe requests. At least half of the unsub requests 
are sent to the list and not majordomo, a no-no that makes extra work for me.

Thanks!
==

General Information:

The Oldsmobile mailing list exists for the purpose of exchanging
information and promoting discussion about Oldsmobiles of all years and
models. Discussion about all aspects of the Oldsmobile marque is
encouraged. The list is based at the Chebucto Community Net in Halifax,
Nova Scotia, Canada and operates using the "Majordomo" mailing list
manager. The list is administered by Greg Beaulieu (ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca). 


Membership Policy:

The Oldsmobile list is an open list. No qualification is required to join,
nor is ownership of an Oldsmobile a prerequisite. 

The list is available in real-time and digest formats. The digest is
produced daily and is a compilation of postings since the previous digest
was produced. 


Discussion Guidelines:

To post a message to the list, send email to:

oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
 
All postings should be Oldsmobile-related in some way. Net etiquette is
strongly encouraged at all times and the list is intended to be
self-managing. Postings are unmoderated and therefore the list requires
members to be responsible and courteous in what they post. Personal
discussions, "flames", profanity, or excessively commercial posts will not
be permitted. Violations of these guidelines will result in two private
warnings to the offending party. A third violation will result in the
party being removed from the list. Any instance of overt mailbombing shall
result in immediate removal from the list. All such actions shall be
solely at the discretion of the list administrator. 

Members who disagree with the appropriateness of a posting should first
contact the other party by private email and make their views known
directly. Please use courtesy, respect and discretion in any such
discussions. Public embarassment of any member via the list is not
permitted. Remember, the Olds list exists for both informative and
entertainment purposes and is intended to be enjoyable for all. 

Follow-up discussions should only quote relevant passages of the original
posting. The daily volume of messages requires members to be responsible
in removing unnecessary text from follow-ups to efficiently use net
resources. Similarly, repetitive or "me too" postings are to be
discouraged. 

Due to the nature of the list software, large individual postings cannot
be handled. Therefore members should not attempt to post graphics, sound
or image files to the list. Notice of availability of such files should
instead be posted if distribution is desired, and mailings can be made by
the originator to individuals specifically requesting the file by direct
email. 

A Frequently-Asked-Questions (FAQ) list is available. New members are
strongly encouraged to request and review the FAQ before posting. The FAQ
can be requested from David Brown (dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu) and will 
soon be available via FTP and the WWW. 


Membership Management:

Individuals can subscribe and unsubscribe from the Oldsmobile list
directly. All membership requests are to be sent to majordomo and not the
list itself. 

Send subscribe or unsubscribe requests to:

majordomo@ccn.cs.dal.ca

Include one of the following as the only text in the body of the message:

subscribe oldsmobile
subscribe oldsmobile-digest
unsubscribe oldsmobile
unsubscribe oldsmobile-digest

Members are strongly encouraged to unsubscribe from the list if their mail
will be unreachable by majordomo for any period of time, or if they are
changing internet addresses. Chronic bounced mail (i.e. mailbox full, user
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Generally several days grace will be provided unless the volume of bounces
becomes unmanageable. Please contact the list administrator
(ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca) if you require assistance. 


Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 13:41:47 -0300
Subject: Re: Race Rockets (Carb Information) 

> >
> > << I read somewhere that the max cfm rating a 350 can take is somewhere
> > around ~550. So
> >  don't be getting these 750-800 cfm double pumpers as they will work great
> > upto 600 cfm for
> >  the 350, after that it's all wasted. >>
> >
> > I have the new Edelbrock 850 cfm Rochester on my car, and in the manual it
> > says the carb will work on 305 cubic inches and larger to 500+ HP.
> 
> It would be a real waste of money to try and get an engine
> to utilize a carb that's way too big for it. Havn't you heard of people at 
the drag or other

> drag places say that the engine is over carbed.  Yes a 305 will work however 
most of the carb's capabilities will never be realized becuase
> the engines volumetric efficiency is just not there. Please someone correct 
me if I'm wrong.
> --
> Regards
> Fernando Proietto


That's right Fernando:

when I used to drag race a Pontiac w/a friend (would a real friend let 
you do that?) it was common knowledge - "Get a bigger carburetor & lose 
0.2"

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 11:17:31 -0300
Subject: Re: Return on 400 engine vacuum post

At 05:57 AM 8/20/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Dave,
>  Well my birthday is at the end of August (31st)

Happy Birthday!

>, and thankfully my parents 
>are getting me an original chassis assembly manual for the car from Al Sandy, 
>$70.00 for a nice one, but it'll be worth it in the long run. 

Yes, it will be worth it!  You will find it invaluable...

>It does run 
>really hot I think though.  I had my heat light come on while I was sitting 
>for about 5 min. once, but I did a flush job on the radiator after that (I'll 
>bet that the flush I did was either the first or only second flush that 
>radiator has ever had).  You should have seen the brown crap that came out of 
>that thing!!  

Yeah, things can get pretty dirty inside there.  Antifreeze has rust
inhibitors in it, and if you don't use it, the water jackets inside the
heads and block can get rusty.  This rust can decrease the effectiveness of
the cooling system.  My car was bought by my father in law in 1971, and I
got it in 1993 when I marrried my wife.  During the time he had it, I don't
think the cooling system was ever flushed (except when the radiator was
replaced in 1985), and he didn't have any antifreeze in it, only water.  I
have cleaned and flushed it, oh, four or five times since 1993, and it is
just starting to look normal again.

Antifreeze also increases the boiling temp. of water.  That, along with the
pressure of a closed cooling system allows the water to go above 212 degrees
without boiling.

>Since then though, it was ok, but then again, you never know.  
>It could be a combination.  Another Thing -----> I have had the car totally 
>die on my while driving for no apparent reason twice so far in the last four 
>months.  I let it sit for a minute or two, and it starts right back up again, 
>but only after I let it sit.  I was told this could be Vapor Lock, what do 
>you think?  Or, possibly attributed to this vacuum thing?

Vapor lock is a strong possibility.  It's probably not related to vacuum
line routing.  Check all your fuel lines and make sure they're not too close
to hot engine parts (exhaust manifolds, exhaust pipes, etc.).

- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 18:52:38 -0300
Subject: List Guidelines

Some indication this never got through the first time I posted it, so 
here it is again, sorry if it is a duplicate.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada


For everyone's benefit, here is the message you would have received when 
you signed on. Please take the time to read it again, particularly in 
light of recent events. I would also appreciate a general review of 
subscribe and unsubscribe requests. At least half of the unsub requests 
are sent to the list and not majordomo, a no-no that makes extra work for me.

Thanks!
==

General Information:

The Oldsmobile mailing list exists for the purpose of exchanging
information and promoting discussion about Oldsmobiles of all years and
models. Discussion about all aspects of the Oldsmobile marque is
encouraged. The list is based at the Chebucto Community Net in Halifax,
Nova Scotia, Canada and operates using the "Majordomo" mailing list
manager. The list is administered by Greg Beaulieu (ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca). 


Membership Policy:

The Oldsmobile list is an open list. No qualification is required to join,
nor is ownership of an Oldsmobile a prerequisite. 

The list is available in real-time and digest formats. The digest is
produced daily and is a compilation of postings since the previous digest
was produced. 


Discussion Guidelines:

To post a message to the list, send email to:

oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
 
All postings should be Oldsmobile-related in some way. Net etiquette is
strongly encouraged at all times and the list is intended to be
self-managing. Postings are unmoderated and therefore the list requires
members to be responsible and courteous in what they post. Personal
discussions, "flames", profanity, or excessively commercial posts will not
be permitted. Violations of these guidelines will result in two private
warnings to the offending party. A third violation will result in the
party being removed from the list. Any instance of overt mailbombing shall
result in immediate removal from the list. All such actions shall be
solely at the discretion of the list administrator. 

Members who disagree with the appropriateness of a posting should first
contact the other party by private email and make their views known
directly. Please use courtesy, respect and discretion in any such
discussions. Public embarassment of any member via the list is not
permitted. Remember, the Olds list exists for both informative and
entertainment purposes and is intended to be enjoyable for all. 

Follow-up discussions should only quote relevant passages of the original
posting. The daily volume of messages requires members to be responsible
in removing unnecessary text from follow-ups to efficiently use net
resources. Similarly, repetitive or "me too" postings are to be
discouraged. 

Due to the nature of the list software, large individual postings cannot
be handled. Therefore members should not attempt to post graphics, sound
or image files to the list. Notice of availability of such files should
instead be posted if distribution is desired, and mailings can be made by
the originator to individuals specifically requesting the file by direct
email. 

A Frequently-Asked-Questions (FAQ) list is available. New members are
strongly encouraged to request and review the FAQ before posting. The FAQ
can be requested from David Brown (dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu) and will 
soon be available via FTP and the WWW. 


Membership Management:

Individuals can subscribe and unsubscribe from the Oldsmobile list
directly. All membership requests are to be sent to majordomo and not the
list itself. 

Send subscribe or unsubscribe requests to:

majordomo@ccn.cs.dal.ca

Include one of the following as the only text in the body of the message:

subscribe oldsmobile
subscribe oldsmobile-digest
unsubscribe oldsmobile
unsubscribe oldsmobile-digest

Members are strongly encouraged to unsubscribe from the list if their mail
will be unreachable by majordomo for any period of time, or if they are
changing internet addresses. Chronic bounced mail (i.e. mailbox full, user
unknown, unreachable mail address, or other such error messages) will
result in removal of an address from the list by the administrator.
Generally several days grace will be provided unless the volume of bounces
becomes unmanageable. Please contact the list administrator
(ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca) if you require assistance. 


Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Ken <rottin@coil.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 18:53:12 -0300
Subject: RE: >>>4-SPEED OWNERS!!! READ THIS!!!!<<<

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB8EC0.78D34F80
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

No.
No.
No.


- ----------
From: 	Paul R. K. Kuromoto[SMTP:suntzu@ohana.com]
Sent: 	Monday, August 19, 1996 6:35 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	>>>4-SPEED OWNERS!!! READ THIS!!!!<<<

I never seem to be able to get replies to my 4-speed questions, but it's 
not because people don't have them..i see so many taglines with 4-speed 
cars.....
Does anyone have a factory clutch fork for sale?
Does anyone have clutch linkage parts for sale (in particular the spring 
and brackets that hold the assembly together)?
Has anyone ever replaced their factory fork with an aftermarket one (e.g. 
Lakewood)?

Heck, last time I was asking about clutches, I only got ONE reply...and 
everyone's got to be running some kind of clutch or another with their 
4-speed..so COME ON 4-SPEED PEOPLE!! SPEAK UP!!!

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%





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------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 13:59:36 -0300
Subject: Re: Radiator Paint

Gregory G. Kalkhoff wrote:
> 
> John & Robin Whitcore wrote:
> >
> > Hi Everyone!
> >
> > We need to touch up our radiator.  What type of paint should we use to
> > do it?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Robin
> 
> 


The radiator shop that I use recommends as little paint as possible.  
They suggest a good covering paint to keep the coats light.  A 
rubberized type they use does that.  Contact a shop that works on 
radiators & get the brand that they suggest from your area.  I'll bet 
the Eastwood stuff is fine too, although it may be more expensive than 
the identical stuff that can be bought locally.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 19:07:53 -0300
Subject: Re: Restoration Info

Probably everybody won't agree, but I couldn't make them look good enough for 
show. I beadblasted mine, and then shot them with "cast magic". It's kinda 
close 
to a natural steel color. I'd have to look, but I think Krylon makes the paint.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: "Gary Bowles" <bodog@napanet.net>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 02:47:31 -0300
Subject: [none]

unsubscribe oldsmobile

------------------------------

From: Mark Stebbins <mstebbin@newton.sdrl.mie.uc.edu>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 17:56:11 -0300
Subject: How do I unsubscribe ??????

 I was wondering if somebody could tell me how I can unsubscribe
 from this mailing list.  I am unable to keep up with all of this
 good information.
			Thanks,
			Mark Stebbins 
			mstebbin@newton.sdrl.mie.uc.edu

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 11:49:24 -0300
Subject: Re: WINTERIZING IN BUFFALO!

At 11:44 PM 8/19/96 -0300, you wrote:

>Dave Paulison has too many vowels in his last name.

Naw, your's has _too few_ vowels!  Some kinda defect or somethin'...  ;)  

>Steve Paulson (just the right number of vowels)
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 19:29:19 -0300
Subject: Re: Restoration Info (hinges) 

Someone suggested having them black-anodized.  This, or some other
form of dying, I believe would look more original than painting.  Though I'm
not sure exactly how they were made black at the factory, I don't think
that they were painted with any kind of spray enamel or the like (I'm not
looking at mine right now, so I may be wrong), unless they were
powder-coated or something.  If anodizing is out of reach for you, maybe
try gun bluing chemicals.  These dye the surface of the metal a dark
black color with just a hint of blue.  I think this is more the way they were
done originally.  The chemicals are available at your local Wal-Marts, or
any other sporting goods store.

- -Blaine

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 17:56:51 -0300
Subject: Re: Radiator Paint 

>Eastwood Co handles a special radiator paint (black) that is supposed 
>to be good. It somehow has properties that cover the radiator, yet 
>does not clog or thicken the fins as to occlude air-flow. I have used 
>enamel in the past and it seemed to work well. [...]
>Anyone else have input on this?

Indirectly, yes; I bought a rebuilt radiator for the '82 Cutlass not
too long ago (had a new core, reused end tanks) with a fresh black
paint job on it that seemed to be, well, still wet. See, it came out
of a sealed box, I watched them pull it off a shelf and open it, so I
was kind of surprised when I was installing it and found the paint was
soft. But after running the engine, it seemed to "cure" the paint and 
harden it, so evidently they were using some kind of high-temperature
stuff...? Since the radiator can get (almost) as hot as the engine,
I'd look at high-temperature paints for it.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 18:27:40 -0300
Subject: Re: Everyone should read this. 

I first read this a couple of hours ago now and was going to sleep on
it before writing anything, but maybe it's better to comment on it
briefly and get over it, so...

I have no comment on short tempers and flaming except to say that 
everyone's entitled to a bad day. As regards content, this is an
Oldsmobile list, and that includes, IMHO, lame Oldsmobile jokes and
wisecracks. Items posted to the list should have some sort of relevance
to Olds, whether technical, humorous, sarcastic, long-winded, terse or
just plain incomprehensible, but the bottom line is it either relates
to Olds topics or it doesn't, and if it doesn't, don't post. An Olds
list with non-Olds content is, after all, not an Olds list at all.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #273
********************************
 
