
oldsmobile-digest         Wednesday, 24 July 1996      Volume 01 : Number 245


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 19:32:44 -0300
Subject: Re: Yet another Quad 4 owner...

Mike Frederick wrote:
> 
> Meyer Stolberg wrote:
> >
> > > BTW, This makes at least 3 Quad4 owners here.  Watch out Toros,
> > > our virus us starting!!!!
> >
> > Can I be #4?
> 
> Hmmm.  You still got a ways to go -- but we're watchin ya!
> 
> The 66 Toro and Mike
> 
> --
> I believe that it takes 2 x 4 cylinders to come near an 8 cylinder Toro. 
 Youse guys will have to multiply faster than you are to have any chance 
at all.  We'll talk quality later.
- -- 
SLTG

------------------------------

From: "Dal Allan" <dal_allan@mcimail.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 04:57:08 -0300
Subject: Big_car_steering_box... 

> I just looked at a 69 Camaro yesterday and it looks like the same box as in
> my 79 Cutlass, so my best bet would be that you should have one since GM
> would have saved a ton of money if they used the same style box on a variety
> of cars..  

It looks the same but the F-bodies have internal stops which can cause havoc 
with your turning circle on an A-body. As I recall, it is worse in one 
direction than the other. On the road, it is not noticeable, but I doubt you 
really want to do it. 

I've been told the problem of stops can be cured by taking the Pitman arm 
off as well and moving that to the A-body. That's stretching the envelope of 
my front end geometry knowledge so can offer no opinion on its viability. 

In the mid-70s GM switched over to metric threads on the 800, so you will 
need adapters to use boxes from later years on earlier cars. 

The most knowledgable guy I've ever come across on steering boxes is Tom Lee 
at 818-768-0371. He rebuilds steering boxes for street users when he is not 
involved in racing, and can create a unit to be anything you want. Its a few 
years since dealing with him, but that number is in Southern California, Sun 
Valley if I recall correctly. 

Dal

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 05:49:49 -0300
Subject: Re: 455 vs 425 

>Well, my dream is to drop a cut-down 425 crank into a solid-main 403 block,
>get 490ci with stock bore, and drop it in an '83 H/O. I'd like a 7000rpm
>*small-block* Olds, with 1hp/ci, putting out about 500hp but looking like a
>180hp 307...

     Yeah, mine too!!!
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 05:49:39 -0300
Subject: Re: Oh My!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

>
>I have a friend with a fairly good VIN decoder program.    We ran my '81
>Cutlass VIN through and here's what it came up with.
>hehehehehehehehee...
>
>VIN entered as: 1G3AR47A9BM503120
>
>------------------------------------------------
>1.              Manufactured in USA.
>2.              Manufactured by GM.
>3.              Unknown code.
>4.              Car type: Celebrity.
>5.              Specific car type: Sprint.
>6.              Unknown code.
>7.              Unknown code.
>8.              231ci (3.8L) 2bbl (buick)
>9.              Ignored - Check digit
>10.             1981 model year.
>11.             Unknown code.
>12-17.          Sequential build number: 503120
>------------------------------------------------
>
>So how rare is an '81 USA Built GM Celebrity Sprint 2bbl 3.8l????????

     normally they're quite common, but the AR47 body style demands a
premium in rarity.  That "M" in the 11'th digit denotes four wheel drive, so
if the car shows differently, I'd suspect tamperring!  Oh, did that first
line up there say ~fairly good~??  ;-)
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 05:49:37 -0300
Subject: Re: delete e-mail 

>please take my name off your e-mail list as soon as possible.
>Thank you
>batkison@interserv.com
>
umm, you didn't go buy a ford, did you>?>>?!!!@
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 05:49:44 -0300
Subject: Re: OUT OF GAS 

>
> I have a problem thats been making me crazy for months.  My 71 442 rag top
>refuses to start up after its been sitting for a couple of days and sometimes
>just overnight.  All it takes to start it is to put just a little splash of
>gas in the carb.  It will run run from then on, but if you don't put gas in the
>carb I could crank for 15 minutes and still not get flow to the carb. I have
>replaced all the rubber lines from the tank to the fuel pump, I have put
>several "Auto Zone" brand fuel pumps and have swapped carbs from running cars
>and still the problem persists.
>
>If anyone has any suggestions, I would appreciate it.

     Well Mike, I'd have to guess the problem is before the pump.  (Too
logical since everything ~after~ the pump has been replaced...)  The two
possibilities that come to mind are drainback conditions.  Either a) the
fuel is somehow draining back into the tank, or b) the fuel is draining onto
the ground.  (B) can be cured by replacing a leaking line, but (A) could be
a bit tricky.  If the car has a really severe "dragass" stance (ya know,
where you can't see the Statue of Liberty because the hood is too high)
gravity may play a roll.  Otherwise, there may be some incorrect hose
routings allowing a siphoning effect back into the tank... (?)  (I'm
grasping at straws here, don't get the impression that I have a clue what
the Hell I'm talking about!!!) Perhaps (worst case scenario) that little
"sock" filter in the tank is plugging up somewhat, and when the pump is
primed well, it has enough suction to draw fuel??  (Doubtful, but a
thought...)  I don't know that a "sealing" style gas cap would cause this
problem, might cause flooding, tho.  Wouldn't hurt to make sure it's OK
anyway, just in case...  Are you using the correct pump?  Is there a chance
there is a bypass hose hooked up wrong, or not there or something?  I have
no idea how the system is set up, but it's worth a look. 
     Maybe this will give you a few new ideas to check out, I don't know.
If I come up with any more thoughts, I'll stick another reply to this.  Good
luck...
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 05:49:33 -0300
Subject: posi/airlift 

>In a message dated 96-07-18 04:52:43 EDT, you write:
>
><<    Still haven't found a posi for my GS.  I need one soon...  I've been
> beat 4 times in the past 2 weeks!  We are going to try to get a race day
> thing going on up here this weekend.  >>
>
>
>Get a set of "Air Lift" poly air cylinders.  Summitt has 'em for about $50.
> Pre-load the right rear spring by about 35 psi versus 10-15 psi on the left.
>
>Amazing what a difference they make.  I've been using them on _many_ Olds for
>about 40 years.  They work guys!  Not quite posi but with otherwise fair-good
>traction make a real difference.

Hafta try both.  The existing rearend is in the process of getting lunched
out badly.  I'm waiting to see parts pop out!  It's loose and weakening.
(That may contribute to some e.t. loss, also!)
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 05:49:51 -0300
Subject: Re: My next driveway cover??? 

>In a message dated 96-07-18 04:52:43 EDT, you write:
>
>>     ANYWAY...  Those who have made it ~this~ far, let me know what ya
>>think.  is this 98 a good find?  How abundant were they?  I don't have many
>>details of options, etc.  I didn't see what remained under the hood, or much
>>of the dash.  I saw a steering wheel, but that's about it...
>>
>>
>
>As the owner of a '67 98 Holiday coupe, I can tell you that you can be glad
>you live more than a day's drive from me or I'd come and hunt that puppy
>down.  Excellent road car.  I'd want to make sure it's loaded, not a Plain
>Jane.  And (you can always change this) a convertible color, not something
>stupid like gunmetal gray or silver -- a "fun" color.
>
>Paul


     Well, it's well loaded.  Front seat is wrong color (parts car has
correct, w/power...)  This beast has A/C, power everything, tilt/telescopic,
destroyed top, and definately not much of a "fun" color :  A few shades
worse than vomit-yellow!  The parts car is white (so most of the Convert.
will match...)   I still haven't been able to get it, tho.  I've been
getting ~really~ antsy, tho!!!
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 05:49:55 -0300
Subject: Re: Traction help...was Re: My next driveway cover??? 

> Any of you guy heard about/use the "No Hop Bars" from Lakewood?
>They bolt to the rearend housing where the upper control arm normally 
>would, then the upper control arm bolts to them.  This shifts the 
>mounting point of the upper control arm about 3 inches upwards.  I 
>bought a set thinking that it would be nice to have no wheel hop without 
>the bulky ladder bars hanging underneath the car. Anyways it's a little 
>late now seeing as I already bought them, but are these things any good?
>Will they cause undue wear on the forward diff. seal because of the 
>angle change, or will I be ok using them on the street?

     A close friend's been using them for months on his GTO.  Worked wonders
(dammit!)  I kept beating him, so he kept stashing cash under his hood.
Each purchase netted more HP, and consequently, more HoP!  After he ran out
of things to try on the engine, he took my advice on those Hop Stop bars.  I
haven't seen his ~HEAD~lights since!!!  He streets it all the time, and as
of yet has had no problems with them.  I have no idea what it did to his
angles or seals, tho.
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: JJF97@uno.cc.geneseo.edu
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 09:34:38 -0300
Subject: Resto  Tips .....

here's two tips in one.....

to help keep your tools "on your car" without damaging paint try one of these
two things....

an egg crate shaped bed pad (made of foam) keeps a pretty good grip on a
fender, adds cushion as a fender cover, and the ridges holds your tools and
small parts in place for easy access.

				OR

if you have an extra radiator cap and an old cake pan from the kitchen,
bolt the pan to the radiator cap, and screw the cap onto the radiator,
it keeps the pan still and holds a variety of tools and parts.
(this works well with vertical loading radiators, rather than angled radiator
caps).



Resto Corner

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 09:30:50 -0300
Subject: Re: 455 Questions

Blaine,
Yes, 455 was standard for the 98.

------------------------------

From: tmorris@bt1dc18e.bet.ibm.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 05:48:13 -0300
Subject: Re: Cost of a '70 442 W30

Hard to say, not having seen the car but it seems like a reasonable deal.  The big swingers
here would be if its a numbers match, the condition of the motor, and body rust.  I'd 
also pay particular attention to the history of the car.  4 Sp cars like that sometimes
go from owner to owner, each of them driving it very hard for short time and then
reselling without investing much in the car in maintenance etc.  Anyway, if its all 
there and solid, that's a good deal in my view.....

Todd Morris
71 442 4 sp.

> Nobody seems to have answered the poor fellow's original question: 
> is $6800.00 a good price or not? Personally, I'm not sure, because I 
> paid too much for my 1971 442 convertible back in 1990; however, 
> for a W30 with high compression, and the owners and dealer known, 
> my guess is it is not a bad deal. Good luck on your bid!
 

------------------------------

From: tmorris@bt1dc18e.bet.ibm.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 06:10:27 -0300
Subject: Carlisle

Off to Carlisle this friday.  Should be fun, even if Summer Carlisle isn't as big a show as 
spring and fall.  I'll try and take good notes but if anyone is interested in something 
specific, pls let me know.  I'll be looking for a bunch of new tools and odds and ends and 
if I'm REALLY lucky I may find a black ashtray for my 442.  That hole in the dash is a tad 
unsightly.

Todd Morris
71 442 4 sp.

------------------------------

From: curly@sgi.net
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 10:18:06 -0300
Subject: Re: Yet another Quad 4 owner... 

At 10:25 PM 7/22/96 -0300, you wrote:
>> BTW, This makes at least 3 Quad4 owners here.  Watch out Toros, 
>> our virus us starting!!!!
>
>Can I be #4?
>
>Meyer
>91 Calais W-41 Quad442 
>1/4 mi @ 14.6 sec @ 95.7 mph
>
>
>
sur Meyer you can be #4 i'm #3 quad 4 here spread the virus!!!

------------------------------

From: curly@sgi.net
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 10:29:38 -0300
Subject: Re: Yet another Quad 4 owner... 

At 07:32 PM 7/22/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Mike Frederick wrote:
>> 
>> Meyer Stolberg wrote:
>> >
>> > > BTW, This makes at least 3 Quad4 owners here.  Watch out Toros,
>> > > our virus us starting!!!!
>> >
>> > Can I be #4?
>> 
>> Hmmm.  You still got a ways to go -- but we're watchin ya!
>> 
>> The 66 Toro and Mike
>> 
>> --
>> I believe that it takes 2 x 4 cylinders to come near an 8 cylinder Toro. 
> Youse guys will have to multiply faster than you are to have any chance 
>at all.  We'll talk quality later.
>-- 
>SLTG
>
>
hey hey maybe that is true but we are at least equivalent in speed and
performance....what we are saying is why have all 8cyl when you can do 
the job with 4cyl...you know!

------------------------------

From: Shawn Twomey <stwom@ctp.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 10:36:54 -0300
Subject: Crank swapping

>Can you switch cranks between small blocks as well?  

Small blocks differ only in bore....the cranks are all the same
(size-wise).


- -----------------==============================
Shawn M. Twomey  |  "No!  Try not!  Do, or do |
stwom@ctp.com    |   not.  There is no try."  |
517 346-7104     |   -Yoda                    |
- -----------------==============================
                                

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 10:46:10 -0300
Subject: RE: Traction help...was Re: My next driveway cover???

I agree entirely, while pinion angle is very important the main thing to =
remeber is that your car should hook up before you start playing with =
that. Make sure you have as much sticky rubber in the wheel wells as =
possible and the airbags are the first thing I always go to on a street =
car. Relatively inexpensive, a breeze to install and they work real =
well.

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 05:47:47 -0300
Subject: Re: Is anybody out there? (list down again?)

Robert J. Barry wrote:
> 
> Is this list down again, or is this the rare day that *nobody* has posted
> anything? (not likely...)
> 
> I guess I'll know when I don't get this message.
> 
> 
> - Bob Barry
> Bob:

Did you get the message?  I haven't as yet, but I'll keep waiting.

- -- 
SLTG

------------------------------

From: curly@sgi.net
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 10:51:21 -0300
Subject: Re: An Olds owner once again 

At 02:25 PM 7/19/96 -0300, you wrote:
>At 04:01 PM 7/21/96 -0300, you wrote:
> That & 
>>Sparky are the only reason that I put up w/800 messages/day.  
>>SLTG
>>
>Sheesh, I've only gotten 3 messages today...where is everybody??
>--
>Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
>dpauliso@metrolink.net
>
>
>

3 messages i got about 42 messages...make sure you are no storing mail on
your server...my mailbox is 2 meg when it fills up no mails comes in 

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 09:54:26 -0300
Subject: Re: Sold! 

At 11:39 AM 3/21/96 -0400, I wrote:
>The '82 Cutlass is now under new management; specifically, Bryce Smith's
>manager, Keith Wood. As I type this, Bryce and Keith are presumably 
>somewhere on the road between Chicago and Topeka, Kansas, about 600 miles.

Jeez, I hope not. This would make it four months almost to the day since
I sent this message. You'd think Bryce would have got out and pushed by
now, or the two of them would have tried to flag down a passing car...

I take it that majordomo got bonked on the head or something, and has
gone back in time to late March?

>Bryce and Keith promise to check back as soon as they arrive home, which I
>hope will be uneventful ("No, Bryce, he did _not_ say it was normal for 
>flames to shoot out of the hood..."), so more news as it develops. We've 
>also got a couple of group photos, so Real Soon Now you'll be able to 
>check the web pages and be able to put faces to some of the names here!

Yo, Bryce, when can we get those photos scanned in?

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 14:02:24 -0300
Subject: Re: Test

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
> 
> Trying to see if majordomo is awake.... sorry for the intrusion.

Oh, it's awake, alright.  It's bit-barfing messages like crazy now.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 14:08:16 -0300
Subject: 4 vs 8, Was: Quad 4

curly@sgi.net wrote:
> 
> ...what we are saying is why have all 8cyl when you can do
> the job with 4cyl...you know!

Which would explain all the F1, Indy, and NASCAR 4 cylinders.   ;)

And we're off...      Again...

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 06:14:36 -0300
Subject: Re: Yet another Quad 4 owner...

curly@sgi.net wrote:
> 
> At 07:32 PM 7/22/96 -0300, you wrote:
> >Mike Frederick wrote:
> >>
> >> Meyer Stolberg wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > BTW, This makes at least 3 Quad4 owners here.  Watch out Toros,
> >> > > our virus us starting!!!!
> >> >
> >> > Can I be #4?
> >>
> >> Hmmm.  You still got a ways to go -- but we're watchin ya!
> >>
> >> The 66 Toro and Mike
> >>
> >> --
> >> I believe that it takes 2 x 4 cylinders to come near an 8 cylinder Toro.
> > Youse guys will have to multiply faster than you are to have any chance
> >at all.  We'll talk quality later.
> >--
> >SLTG
> >
> >
> hey hey maybe that is true but we are at least equivalent in speed and
> performance....what we are saying is why have all 8cyl when you can do
> the job with 4cyl...you know!

Don't try to confuse the issue w/truth, equivalency, or any other logic. 
 I know Toro's are better because I own one.
- -- 
SLTG

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 06:27:23 -0300
Subject: Re: Convertible Top Replacement

> 
> Robert,
> 
> I just had the top replaced on my 71 last week!  
> 
> The installer said to leave it up for about five days to let the new top
> stretch out.  Did I listen?  Of course not!  I drove to the beach with the
> top down.  A day later I tried to put it back up.  When fully up, it was "a
> few" inches from the lock.  .  Maybe
> the installer was right and that I should let it stretch out.  You think
> so?
> --
>                     _
>                     |\            Convertibles
>      .__====-_._____|_\______         Rule!                        Drew Senko
>      [   ___  |-     |  ___  \                           senko@reston.ans.net
>      =\_//.\\_|______|_//.\\__)                  http://members.gnn.com/senko
> _________\_/____________\_/_____________________________________________
Those professionals all think they are so smart!
- -- 
SLTG

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 12:31:03 -0300
Subject: Re: Big car steering box... 

I beleive Charley's web page had some info on this type of interchanging 
(the CC and HR articles, now gone for legal reasons).  Charley, could you 
check this out?

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
                  or see: www.cps.msu.edu/~twomeysh/
- ----------------

Bryce and all others interesteds:  Here is my response to a question asking
if the B & C cars used this [steering] box:

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 14:01:33 -0300
Subject: Re: Crank swapping 

Uhhmm, no, and no!  SB's have 2.1238/2.1248 rod journals, and 2.4983/2.4993 main
journals, while BB's have 2.4990/2.5000 rod and 2.9990/3.0000 main journals!  No
such undersize bearings are made :)!!

The 350 Diesel used the SB's rod journals and the BB's main's.  My source is the
1994 Federnal-Mogul Engine Bearing Shop Specification Manual, lines 61, 72 and 
60.

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
                  or see: www.cps.msu.edu/~twomeysh/

- ------------
>Can you switch cranks between small blocks as well?  

Small blocks differ only in bore....the cranks are all the same
(size-wise).

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 13:07:41 -0300
Subject: Re: Wanted: Fender

Dave,
I've got a right fender. No rust, no bondo. A small, slightest hine of a dent 
near the front would take a body person about 15  to 30 minutes to fix. Fender 
only, no trim, can be delivered to you location for $200.  Let me know.

Art Fuller
mefco@sprynet.com 

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 13:14:42 -0300
Subject: "Olds" ifieds 

To All:

Here are the Oldsified ads as placed in this months "Rocket Rapsheet", the
newsletter from the Oldsmobile Club of Wisconsin chapter of the OCA.

July 1996 Volume 20, Issue 7;

FOR SALE:  Large (67"x 31") black rubber Oldsmobile factory trunk mat. Came
new in 75 Cutlass, near perfect condition.....$200.00 FIRM  Ed Thompson
414-744-0493 or
ext@quarles.com

FOR SALE: 1956 Olds 88 3 door Hardtop. $2800.00   Floyd Arrowhead
414-771-7641

OLDSMOBILE PARTS: For 70-72 Cutlass/442: Dual-gate shifter, console and
cable. Six rally "one" wheels, beauty rings, and center caps. 1970 rear back
seat cover for 442. 1970 Passenger door. 1970 trunk mat. Power window motors,
side windows, and many misc items. Jerry Fredericks  414-634-5900

If there is interest in me doing this on a monthy basis, give me some
feedback. I would be glad to do it for you all, eventhough I'm a Torohead. (:

Sparky

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 13:17:21 -0300
Subject: Toro Parts 

A brief list as advertised in this months Toronado Chapter Newsletter:

Parts:

1966 Toronado: Good parts car. 100% complete, good interior, chrome wheels.
20 years stored. $500 takes all.  ask for Bill.......810-627-3815
   Ortonville MI

1967 Toronado: NOS right front fender. Best offer. J. Serio TC#081  Box 27,
Monkton, MD 21111

1968-72 Toro parts: 2 rims for drum brakes ($10 each). 68 tilt/tele wheel
($80). 4 68 full hubcaps ($60). 2 69 front bumpers ($75 each). 3 painted rims
for disk brakes ($20 each). 69 Tilt/tele wheel ($75). 1 69 tailight ass.
($25).  69 front grills ($65). Will sell 69 Toro parts as package ($360). 4
71 full hubcaps ($60). 1 72 headlight bezel ($20).
Contact Jerry Russo 207-787-2631      Sabago, ME

For those of you who are members, you already know this.....for those who
aren't. There ya go!

Sparky

------------------------------

From: Peter_Teubel_at_Safety1st-MA@harte-hanks.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 15:27:23 -0300
Subject: A True Gem 

     Here's you chance for a collectible, people.  I was checking out a 
     1972 Buick at a local dealer because the car was in such excellent 
     condition.  Good price of $3995 for it.  
     
                ***  BUT THEN....  ***
     
     I saw another gem at that dealer.  How about a 1974 (75?..can't 
     remember which) Olds Cutlass Salon......with only 158 miles on it!  
     Yes, that's right...158 miles.  The guy is asking $14,900 for it.  
     What a beauty this car is.  Apparantly, the car is just out of 
     climate-controlled storage.  It even *SMELLS* new.

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 16:35:46 -0300
Subject: Re: Toro Parts

Toronado66@aol.com wrote:
> 
> 1966 Toronado: Good parts car. 100% complete, good interior, chrome 
> wheels. 20 years stored. $500 takes all.

Ooo!  Wish I could go get that one!

> 1 69 tailight ass.

Is that the whole ass or just half-assed?

> For those of you who are members, you already know this.....for those 
> who aren't. There ya go!

"Everywhere you go, there you are."  -- Buckaroo Banzai

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Peter_Teubel_at_Safety1st-MA@harte-hanks.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 15:41:02 -0300
Subject: Wanted: Trim (1951 Olds 98) 

        I'm looking for the rear tail light bezels for my 1951 Olds 98 4-dr 
     sedan.  As long as they're in one piece and straight, I don't care 
     about the finish.  I need them for both sides.  
     
        Also the reverse light lens (only need one).  Its the square one 
     and its glass, not plastic.
     
        If anyone has these items available, please let me know.  Thx...
     
     
     
     
     Peter G. Teubel
     peter_teubel_at_safety1st-ma@harte-hanks.com
     '51 98

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 12:39:27 -0300
Subject: Re: Weekend Project: Engine Rebuild Notes 

Robert J. Barry writes:

>1) Harmonic Balancer Installer- You can't buy one, for an Olds at least.
>Maybe Mondello will sell you one, but why when you can make your own for
>about $5? All you need is about 8" of 3/4-16 threaded rod, a nut to match,
>and a washer larger than 3/4" (7/8" is good).

(Hey, are you any relation to Dave?)

Don't know if anyone else has already mentioned this, given the mess that
our email is in this morning, but I found when doing the balancer on our
old '72 Pontiac 350 that my Sears Craftsman Balancer/Steering Wheel Puller
has the correct center bolt thread to do this. I just screwed the center
bolt of the puller into the end of the crankshaft, put the balancer on,
tossed a couple of big washers on, then screwed the big cast body of the
puller onto the bolt, flat side first. Spun it down further and it very
neatly pressed the balancer squarely onto its shaft. I even got the key
lined up properly on the first attempt. Lucky me.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Frank Boerger <103454.317@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 13:46:24 -0300
Subject: Books/Manuals

On 7/23//96 Todd Hall wrote:

>I'm still looking for a good shop manual for my '72 4-4-2, any suggetions?
>I'm currently using Chilton's Cutlass 70-84 manual which leaves a lot to be
>desired.

I bought an original chassis manual for my '68 Cutlass (actually for all models)
from FaxonAuto Literature for $ 89.00.  Kinda pricey, but it's very helpful.

their number is 800-458-2734.

Frank Boerger '68 Cutlass Convertible (now covering 2.5 acres)

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 12:44:23 -0300
Subject: Re: A True Gem 

>     I saw another gem at that dealer.  How about a 1974 (75?..can't 
>     remember which)

Well, the '74 has separate front turn signal lenses set off from the
grille by body-color areas. The '75 has clear cathedral-like lenses
set into the outermost segment of each grille.

>     Yes, that's right...158 miles.  The guy is asking $14,900 for it.  
>     What a beauty this car is.

Um, is this the 4-door? Color? Don't know what to think about that 
price. Maybe _Olds_ would be interested in it!

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 15:04:18 -0300
Subject: Re: "Olds" ifieds

Sparky,

I appreciate any list like you describe. Sure, my vote is to display it when you 
can.  By the way, that big $200 trunk mat is reproduced by Fusick for about $85.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 15:36:38 -0300
Subject: Vegas Report... good news and bad

The good news:  I found a 1969 Olds 98 with 38,686 original miles.  The
interior was imaculate!  The dash looked like brand new...  According to
the junkyard "dogs", the car has been stored for the last 17 years.  Just
out of curiosity, I looked in the glove box.  There were two registration
slips in there (along with a mint owners' manual): one for 1975, and  one
for 1976.  It didn't look like that car had been driven since 1976!  There
was even a little card, "Taking Care of Your Oldsmobile Perma-Plate
Finish" (or something to that effect).  What this car was doing in a junk
yard, I don't know.  From what I could tell, it was a single owner
granny's car.  

The bad news:  I'm a poor boy, and I couldn't afford to take the whole car
off thier hands.  The really bad news is, it's on it's way to the
crematorium.  I did manage to save the heart of this huge baby... the
engine.  They sold it to me for $500.  It almost broke my heart to destroy
the originality of that car, but I decided that if they were going to scrap
the car, I wasn't gonna let that engine go to some other shmuck who
wouldn't appreciate it.  It's a 455 Rocket... with 38,686 original miles on it. 
Did I do the right thing?

- -Blaine
'72 Cutlass Supreme (that will someday be the proud owner of a
stronger heart, donated valiantly by a '69 98 that was about to be
unjustly murdered by a couple of grimy junkyard thugs...)

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 15:45:09 -0300
Subject: Re: "Olds" ifieds -Reply

>>> <mefco@sprynet.com> 07/23/96 12:04pm >>>
>Sparky,
>
>I appreciate any list like you describe. Sure, my vote is to display it
>when you can.  

Amen to that!

- -BS

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 18:48:23 -0300
Subject: Re: Vegas Report... good news and bad

Blaine Sanders 5483 wrote:
> 
> I couldn't afford to take the whole car off thier hands.A sad, sad story, Blaine

> Did I do the right thing?Absolutely!  You did everything you could to save the poor girl.
I'm referring this to PETO (People for the Ethical Treatment of 
Oldsmobiles) for investigation.  There ougtha be a law!

The 66 Toro and Mike

- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: tmorris@bt1dc18e.bet.ibm.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 11:57:20 -0300
Subject: Re: "Olds" ifieds

I for one am always interested in seeing what's for sale.

Todd Morris
71 442 4 sp.
> 
> Here are the Oldsified ads as placed in this months "Rocket Rapsheet", the
> newsletter from the Oldsmobile Club of Wisconsin chapter of the OCA.
> 
  snip
> 
> If there is interest in me doing this on a monthy basis, give me some
> feedback. I would be glad to do it for you all, eventhough I'm a Torohead. (:
> 
> Sparky

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 16:08:07 -0300
Subject: Re: any suggest for stripping all old paint on the top only

> I have 1967 Cutlass Supreme Sport Coupe, I am planning to strip all old paint
> on the top only ( hood, top, and trunk hood) due to damage by hail storm.  I
> am thinking about using the machine that can use sandpaper to remove all
> paints but I know that would take it for long time.  I would like to hear
> what can you suggest me that I can do is stripping old paint by something
> like chemicals, or special machine that I can rent. 
> I would like to leave both sides of paints because of good conditions and my
> body shop can paint to match the color (Blue) so I decide to strip on the
> tops only before go to the body shop for save my money to pay.  I hope that I
> will hear from all of you soon    Thanks PMRJr. 

	For the past couple of months, I've been stripping all kinds of 
paint, undercoating, rust, and road crud off the front end sheet metal 
for my 98.  I'll tell you right now it's a pretty messy process :)

	For stripping paint, you could either use an abrasive (ie. some sort 
of bead/sand or other media blasting, or sandpaper) or some sort of 
chemical stripper.  Having tried both, I would probibly recomend the 
chemical stripper for your car.  It'll save you both a lot of headaches 
and a lot of muscleaches you would get with the sanding! (blasting 
would'nt really work since you're only stripping the top half of the 
car).  You could either try something like Aircraft Stripper, available 
at most auto body supply stores, or some generic hardware store paint 
stripper.  Just be sure to get one designed to strip acryllic laquer or 
enamel or whatever type of paint you have.  

	You should be able to mask the bottem of the car off with tape and a 
*lot* of newspaper, since you don't want any of it seeping through.  
Other than that, just follow the directions and wear a resperator (even 
with good ventilation, the fumes can be a little overwhelming...)  Oh, 
and one other thing--try and do it in the shade or a garage, since the 
sun tends to dry the stripper out before it had a chance to work 
completly, and it can make a mess of things like that.

	Anyway, if you want any other tips, I can probibly help.  I've had a 
lot of "learned it the hard way" experiences with this stuff lately!

	
			Scott
		1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 16:15:40 -0300
Subject: Vacation time!

	Hey everyone!
I'm going to be gone on vacation for a couple weeks, and I'll be heading 
to California, and going back through Reno hopefully in time for Hot 
August Nights.  I was there last year, but didn't see too many 
Oldsmobiles.  Mostly Chubbys and Frods.  :(  If any of you guys are going 
to be there, put a sign in your window or something, and we'll chat.  
Anyway, I really look foreward to coming back to the 900 or 1000 messages 
in my inbox when I get back.  I love you guys!
	
				Later,
					Scott
				1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 15:17:08 -0300
Subject: We're (soon to be) famous! 

Just got off the phone following a surprise call from Dean Shipley
of Cars & Parts magazine. Seems that my gossiping with the people
I support on the Scott Stamp side of things has finally made its
way across the hallway to the Cars & Parts offices and their ears
have pricked up. They are interested in doing a short mention of
our email list and Bryceman's web page in the News Items column
of an upcoming issue.

So anyway, I gave Dean a hopefully not-too-muddled explanation of
what we all do here and how the list works (on a good day :-), and
explained how it all relates to Bryceman's web page as well. I'm
going to fax him a copy of Greg's majordomo introductory message as
well so that he's got half a chance of correctly printing our email
addresses and URL in the magazine. More news as it develops.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: DELPROPO@ONLINE.EMICH.EDU
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 20:23:43 -0300
Subject: WOODWARD D

Don't forget about the Woodward Dream Cruise August 17 in Michigan. For more
information   
                on this event see this months issue of Muscle Car Review                        
Ohio mhAY 

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 17:51:29 -0300
Subject: Re: Weekend Project: Engine Rebuild Notes 

In a message dated 96-07-23 09:30:14 EDT, you write:

<< My question is: Where did
 Mondello get that spec for adjusting the lifter preload? Maybe I'm just
 unable to understand what he means in his section on setting preload. Any
 insights into this? >>


Bob:

The adjustment for lifter pre-load is going to vary from setup to setup.
 Heads milled? Block decked? Cam moderate or high lift?  They all will cause
a change in the overall length needed for pre-load.  The cam changes things
because the maximum lobe height versus the center of the camshaft is limited
by the cam bearings.  You could grind a cam for a real high lift only to
discover it can't get past the cam bearing diameters.  So, the only way to
increase lift is move the base circle of the cam lobe closer to the center of
the cam.

Usually a high lift cam will require longer pushrods because the base circle
of the cam lobe is further away from the rocker arm.  Am I making sense?

Mondello offers adjustable pushrods to allow for a wide range of different
lengths.  I don't like adjustable rods because the can come loose, weigh more
than stock rods which may limit rpms and they are more expensive.

A method of cutting an old pushrod in two pieces, tapping the pieces for ~1/4
threaded stock and using jam nuts has been described here for measuring the
length needed in a particular application.  How did you determine the length
you needed?

Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 17:50:24 -0300
Subject: Re: 67 frame swap..  

In a message dated 96-07-23 08:28:49 EDT, you write:

<< It has "442" emblems on the back of the rear 
 fenders.  Does the location of these emblems indicate a 65 or 66?
 
  Second question: The frame of the above car seems solid.  Would it be 
 possible to swap this frame with the frame on my 67' 442 Convertible?  
 My 67' frame is abit weak on the drivers side.
 
  Third question: My 67 442 has a 425 in it.  If I swap the motor from 
 the car in question #1 will there be any way to tell it is not the 
 original 400? 
 
 Thanks,
 Ken
 Cleveland, Oh
 67' 442
  >>

Hi Ken:

Us '67 owners are getting rare.  If the "442" badges are the small ones back
in the vicinity of the rear bumper, it's probably a '66.  The '67 had none,
the '65s used a funy kind of fake scoop device about mid way below the rear
quarter window.

The frame should work fine.  "Heavy Duty" frames were even available on 65-66
442's.  What they did was put a convertible frame under a hardtop, just like
the police cars.  There is no difference I am aware of for the 66-67 frames.

What kind of 425?  If it's a bored out 400, no, no one could tell the
difference without measuring the bore and stroke.  If it is an original 425,
the block casting number and letter will be a giveaway to a knowledgeable
Olds enthusiast only.  Internally the only difference was the bore, 4.00 for
the 400 and 4.125 for the 425.

Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 17:50:36 -0300
Subject: Re: 455 Questions 

In a message dated 96-07-23 08:20:28 EDT, you write:

<< What (if there is one) is the difference between a regular 455 and a
 "455 Rocket"?  Were the "Rockets" painted red?  Would a '69 98 have
 come stock with a "455 Rocket"?
  >>
 As far as I know, the "Rocket Olds" started with the first OHV Olds V-8.
 They were all Rockets of one kind or another, like Jetfire, etc.

There is no significant difference in the 455 engine blocks, all pretty much
the same.  The innards however do vary with the last 455's being a mere
shadow of the original.

The most "desireable" 455's are the early ones up to about 71-72.  After 70
they were all low compression.

The color varied by year and model application.  With 20 plus years on any
engine the color dosen't mean much.

Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 17:51:27 -0300
Subject: Re: 455 vs 425 

In a message dated 96-07-23 09:30:12 EDT, you write:

<<  I've seen 455 turn 7200rpm, how much more can the 425 turn with the same
head?
  >>
 You _can_ turn a 455 7200 rpm but not for very long.  On average I would
estimate the 425 is good for 500 rpm more consistently and with more
reliability - in particular because of the forged crank and shorter stroke
making oiling somewhat better.

Olds heads aren't that bad.  There are some 9 second Olds' out there.
 Someone posted info about the Mondello Nationals in Ohio earlier this month.
 What were some of the lower times this year and with what models?  There is
a fellow near Tampa. Jack Muenzner (sp?) with a ~'49 88 that turns low 10's
with no bottle.

Neat car.

Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL

------------------------------

From: STEE911@aol.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 18:00:26 -0300
Subject: Re: Weekend Project: Engine Rebuild Notes 

matco tools sells a balancer instaler for about $40

------------------------------

From: STEE911@aol.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 18:00:40 -0300
Subject: Re: Books/Manuals 

try year one

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 21:44:42 -0300
Subject: Re: 455 vs 425

BobH592058@aol.com wrote:
> 
> There is a fellow near Tampa. Jack Muenzner (sp?) with a ~'49 88 that 
> turns low 10's with no bottle.

Hmmm, I have to be on the lookout for him.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <yu135008@yorku.ca>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 18:57:42 -0300
Subject: Re: OUT OF GAS -Reply

> << Having to trickle raw gas into the engine or
>  having to pump the accelerator 7 times in order to start an engine both
>  indicate that the choke valve is not closing on the '71 and '72 discussed 
>  earlier.   >>

>   Aren't you forgetting the most common problem with the Q-Jet - leaking fuel
> bowl plugs?  That produces the same exact scenario.

Leaking fuel well plugs did cross my mind.  However, I've found that even
with an empty fuel bowl, it only takes about 5 seconds of cranking for
enough gas to reach the carb to enable a start.  If prolonged cranking (as
in the first instance) doesn't start the engine and the fuel pump has
been checked for pressure and volume, but the manual addition
of some fuel does the trick, is this really a strong case for leaky plugs?
If the carburetor leaks all the fuel and causes a flooded condition,
adding more gas wouldn't help.  In the second instance, where pumping the
gas pedal 7 times is the norm, I still think there's a possible problem
with the choke.  I believe it was stated that pumping the accelerator was
required before cranking, so if the bowl was empty, this action wouldn't
introduce any gas to the engine.  Also, holding the accelerator to the
floor while cranking didn't work, so this should rule out a flooded
condition (provided that the choke valve correctly opens slightly at WOT).
There's a lot of speculation here, and it would be beneficial if the
list members who made the comments on their starting peculiarities would
make some observations and report back.  To determine if there's any fuel
in the float bowl, look for an accelerator pump shot while the throttle
is opened.  Look for correct choke valve operation.
 
Kevin Wong
  

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 20:09:37 -0300
Subject: Re: New Motor Considerations 

Have you considered hypereutectic (I think that's spelled right).  From 
what I have read and heard, still cast, stronger than regular cast though, 
cheaper than forged, yet you can run the same tight piston to bore 
clearence as cast.  You don't have the piston slap of forged when cold, and 
better emissions due to less clearence.  Considerations for a daily driver. 

I haven't priced it yet, but you might want to check out the VFI system 
from BG Fuel Systems.

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
                  or see: www.cps.msu.edu/~twomeysh/

- --------------
Induction will be via a Q-jet on the stock manifold, until I get around 
to trying to implement a FI system.

This is a daily driver '71 C/S ragtop, T400, 2.78 Posi car.

1.  Pistons - I'd like to get around 9:1 compression.  No specific 
preference to cast or forged, but I've never owned a forged piston 
motor.  I'm more concerned with durability.

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 17:28:09 -0300
Subject: Re: NON-OLDS: EMail

At 01:40 PM 7/22/96 -0300, you wrote:

>I anyone is interested in additional information on the word-wrap 
>problem, send a message to me directly for a reply.
>
>(Better, Dave?)
>
>The 66 Toro and Mike

Ummm...yeah...okey dokey ;)
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 17:29:01 -0300
Subject: Re: "Olds" ifieds

At 01:14 PM 7/23/96 -0300, you wrote:
>To All:
>
>Here are the Oldsified ads 
>If there is interest in me doing this on a monthy basis, give me some
>feedback. I would be glad to do it for you all, eventhough I'm a Torohead. (:
>
>Sparky
>
Yes, please do so!!  Thanks!
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: mike.blankenship@medaphis.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 19:13:54 -0300
Subject: [none]

Are many of yall going to make it to the OCA Convention here in August.         It should be a good show.  I think at last count there were close to
400 cars registered and lots of swap vendors.  The Olympic's will just
be getting finished up (Yeah!!!).

Mike
66, 70, 71 442's
69 H/O

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 20:32:32 -0300
Subject: Re: any suggest for stripping all old paint on the top only 

I've had good luck with a stripper called CitriStrip.  Can't miss it - 
orange goop in a clear bottle.  Cost is a little more than the tin can 
chemical stripper.  It works well (and clings pretty good) without a lot of 
gastly fumes.  Use eye protection and wear some industrial chemical 
resistant gloves.  Whatever resulting goo I didn't scrape off the trunk 
lid, I washed off with water and it did not harm the grass.

You don't want stripper getting into any cracks, joints, etc. (it will be 
very hard to get out or neutralize - probably ruin the new paint), and use 
masking tape only.  Tape off the cracks.  Buy some 2 - 4 mil plastic drop 
clothes and tape them around the top so any stripper will run off to the 
ground.  Shouldn't cost too much.

I have little experience at this though, but this is what I plan to do when 
I strip the top of my Delta.

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
                  or see: www.cps.msu.edu/~twomeysh/

- ------------
Hello everyone, 
I have 1967 Cutlass Supreme Sport Coupe, I am planning to strip all old paint
on the top only ( hood, top, and trunk hood) due to damage by hail storm.

------------------------------

From: DELPROPO@emuvax.emich.edu
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 19:53:46 -0300
Subject: RE: 455 Questions 

A rocket olds engin is just a name that was carried over from the 1949 Rocket
88 that came with a V8. In 69 the 98 came standard with a 365hp 455 and it was
most likly painted olds blue. G.D. 70 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: DELPROPO@emuvax.emich.edu
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 19:58:40 -0300
Subject: Re: 70 350 engin nock 

My spark plugs are fine, I only run the booster every other tankfull when it
seems to be pinging more. I hoped adding it would solve a problem and not creat
one. Also I do not run the car hard so my last resort will be to buy 93 fuel
and reduce the timing to 8 degrees.
to try  ful

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 20:48:38 -0300
Subject: RE: 455 Questions -Reply

>>> <DELPROPO@emuvax.emich.edu> 07/23/96 04:53pm >>>
>A rocket olds engin is just a name that was carried over from the 1949
>Rocket 88 that came with a V8. In 69 the 98 came standard with a
>365hp 455 and it was most likly painted olds blue. G.D. 70 Cutlass
>Supreme

Hmm...  According to the document "Engine Code Numbers Decoded" on
Bryceman's page, the only 455 offered in '69 was a 380 hp, 4-bbl, AT,
w/10.5:1 compression.  But the FAQ's says that the Toro & 442 heads
had bigger valves.  Wouldn't this yield more HP?  Also, I doubt that all
1969 455's came with 4-bbl carbs.  Will someone please clear this up for
me?  What 455 options were there in 1969?

My 455 is red.  This appears to be the original color, as I scraped through
the 1/2 in. of gunk on the block then used brake cleaner to blast away
the residue... and it is red, red, red.  There is no trace of any other color. 
But the FAQ says that '69 455's were blue.

------------------------------

From: "Jeff Hunter" <jchunter@xcelco.on.ca>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 21:52:37 -0300
Subject: Olds Chat

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Someone mentioned the other day about having an Oldsreal time chat.  We
had tried these before and they were relatively sucessful until my hard
drive blew up and my computer was down for a couple weeks. If your
interested in taking part in a chat session, we could show up on
another.net on friday 9:00 EDT ??? We could then come to a consensus on
when the chats should be held.  

See attached file for connection information....

Thanks All
Jeff Hunter
jchunter@xcelco.on.ca
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="oldschat.txt"

Steps to participating in Oldsmobile Mailing List Chat:

1. Download and setup an IRC client.
	
	With an IRC Client you will be able to connect to an IRC 
	server.
	
	*	FOR PC'S: 
	
	The best IRC client available is mIRC.  See web site at:
		http://huizen.dds.nl/~mirc/index.html

	*	FOR MACS

	Best (only, rather) client for Macs is IRCLE.  See web site at:
		http://www.xs4all.nl/~ircle/

2.	Set the software to connect to one of these servers (preferably 
	the one closest to you), set PORT to 6667 OR 7000

	dragon.ne.us.another.net	*	Omaha NB
	neato.ca.us.another.net		*	San Jose CA
	sunrise.ca.us.another.net	*	Los Angeles CA
	together.vt.us.another.net	*	Burlington VT	

3.	At time of chat, join channel #oldsmobile
	All Mailing list members will receive Auto-OP status.	


NOTE *** Email me personally if you have trouble with setup.
- ------=_NextPart_000_01BB78D8.E1B623E0--

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 22:04:21 -0300
Subject: Re:

Mike,
All of us are coming. There will be as many as E mails. Should give the Olympic 
crowd a challange. 

Art Fuller
North Texas Oldsmobile Club
Dallas Nationals in '99

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 22:04:47 -0300
Subject: Re: 455 vs 425 

In a message dated 96-07-23 17:57:45 EDT, you write:

<< > There is a fellow near Tampa. Jack Muenzner (sp?) with a ~'49 88 that 
 > turns low 10's with no bottle.
 
 Hmmm, I have to be on the lookout for him.
 
 The 66 Toro and Mike
  >>

Yea Mike, his car even has flames!

Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 22:10:48 -0300
Subject: RE: 455 Questions -Reply

My source says there were 6 different horsepower 455's in 1969. Horsepower 
ratings in these engines were 310, 365 (Standard in 98's), 375, 380, 390, and of 
course the Toronado 400.  
I have seen red engines, and I have seen blue. That was done so that people 
would discuss what the proper color was 27 years later.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 22:15:01 -0300
Subject: Big old cars

Went to a local yard today and the big cars are showing up again. A 66 98, two 
68 Deltas, and a 70 98. Anybody need any of this stuff?

Art Fuller
mefco@sprynet.com 

------------------------------

From: gludlam@bcinet.net (Gregg Ludlam)
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 22:15:37 -0300
Subject: Re: The Webpage

Bryce,

WOW, am I ever pleased!!!  Thanks for the great job on the Toro's Owner
Registry page.  I've received a bunch of hits from folks saying how cool it
looks and wanting to know more about the car.  Thanks again, pal!!!

Gregg Ludlam, aka:


- -Gregg, the '67 Toro guy

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 22:16:25 -0300
Subject: RE: 455 vs 425

I still feel that the Olds engine in general is limited by the head so =
that the 455 with its larger displacement would have the edge ( notice I =
said edge ). I have put together Batten head equiped Olds in the past =
and I would then agree the forged crank of a 425 is needed to withstand =
the strain that the engine  begins to develop. When the engine induction =
was forced or nitrous used then again the 425 would be stronger and a =
better choice but the 455 would be better naturally aspirated. By the =
way I own a 9 sec Olds.

- ----------
From: 	BobH592058@aol.com[SMTP:BobH592058@aol.com]
Sent: 	Tuesday, July 23, 1996 4:51 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Re: 455 vs 425

In a message dated 96-07-23 09:30:12 EDT, you write:

<<  I've seen 455 turn 7200rpm, how much more can the 425 turn with the =
same
head?
  >>
 You _can_ turn a 455 7200 rpm but not for very long.  On average I =
would
estimate the 425 is good for 500 rpm more consistently and with more
reliability - in particular because of the forged crank and shorter =
stroke
making oiling somewhat better.

Olds heads aren't that bad.  There are some 9 second Olds' out there.
 Someone posted info about the Mondello Nationals in Ohio earlier this =
month.
 What were some of the lower times this year and with what models?  =
There is
a fellow near Tampa. Jack Muenzner (sp?) with a ~'49 88 that turns low =
10's
with no bottle.

Neat car.

Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 01:35:03 -0300
Subject: Re: 455 vs 425

BobH592058@aol.com wrote:
> 
> > There is a fellow near Tampa. Jack Muenzner (sp?) with a ~'49 88 that
> > turns low 10's with no bottle.
> 
> Hmmm, I have to be on the lookout for him.
> 
> Yea Mike, his car even has flames!

My kinda guy!   ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: DGMCEWEN@aol.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 22:36:44 -0300
Subject: Re: 4 vs 8, Was: Quad 4 

Highest H.P. per C.I. EVER released by Olds to the general public, the W41
Quad 4. 
Also, any Olds-powered vehicles ever top the top speed of the Q-4 pwoered
Aerotech?                                          Doug W41SCX

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 22:38:00 -0300
Subject: Re: 455 Questions -Reply 

In a message dated 96-07-23 21:21:26 EDT, you write:

>I have seen red engines, and I have seen blue. That was done so that people 
>would discuss what the proper color was 27 years later.
>
>

It seems it worked!  (;

Sparky

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 22:40:11 -0300
Subject: Re: Big old cars 

> From oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca Tue Jul 23 21:18 EDT 1996
> Date: 	Tue, 23 Jul 1996 22:15:01 -0300
> From: mefco@sprynet.com
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Went to a local yard today and the big cars are showing up again. A 66 98, two 
> 68 Deltas, and a 70 98. Anybody need any of this stuff?
> 
> Art Fuller

Why yes!  Where are you?  I need a front bumper.  Actually, I need a
bunch of stuff.  What kind of shape, color, and style is that 70 98.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-5450    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 17:47:49 -0300
Subject: Re: "Olds" ifieds

Toronado66@aol.com wrote:
> 
> To All:
> 
> Here are the Oldsified ads as placed in this months "Rocket Rapsheet", the
> newsletter from the Oldsmobile Club of Wisconsin chapter of the OCA.
> 
> 
> 
> If there is interest in me doing this on a monthy basis, give me some
> feedback. I would be glad to do it for you all, eventhough I'm a Torohead. (:
> 
> SparkyIt sounds useful to me.  Someone always needs parts & someone needs ot 
connect who has them.
- -- 
SLTG

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 17:59:47 -0300
Subject: Re: Vegas Report... good news and bad

Blaine Sanders 5483 wrote:
> 
> The good news:  I found a 1969 Olds 98 with 38,686 original miles.  
> 
> The bad news:  I'm a poor boy, and I couldn't afford to take the whole car
> off thier hands.  The really bad news is, it's on it's way to the
> crematorium.  I did manage to save the heart of this huge baby... the
> engine.  They sold it to me for $500.  It almost broke my heart to destroy
> the originality of that car, 
> Did I do the right thing?
> 
> -Blaine
> '72 Cutlass Supreme (that will someday be the proud owner of a
> stronger heart, donated valiantly by a '69 98 that was about to be
> unjustly murdered by a couple of grimy junkyard thugs...)You did the best you could.  Dr. Olds must be thanking you for that.
- -- 
SLTG

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 23:22:00 -0300
Subject: Re: Big old cars

Robert,
Green or gold. Did they paint them any other colors?  Actually, I was on a dead 
run through the yard because it was about to rain. Tell me what you're looking 
for and I'll check it out.

Art Fuller
Kennedale, Tx. (next to Ft. Worth)

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 18:23:47 -0300
Subject: Re: 

mike.blankenship@medaphis.com wrote:
> 
> Are many of yall going to make it to the OCA Convention here in August.         It should be a good show.  I think at last count there 
were close to
> 400 cars registered and lots of swap vendors.  The Olympic's will just
> be getting finished up (Yeah!!!).
> 
> Mike
> 66, 70, 71 442's
> 69 H/O

I'll so my best, but I have drawn jury duty today & I hope that that I 
am not found guilty.  Friends who have been in Atlanta talk of 6 hour 
drives through town.  I know that the show is really in Marrietta, 
which is N of town right on I75.  Can we get news on whether to expect 
anything better than the stories that I have heard?
- -- 
SLTG

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 18:34:21 -0300
Subject: Re: 455 Questions -Reply

Blaine Sanders 5483 wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> My 455 is red.  This appears to be the original color, as I scraped through
> the 1/2 in. of gunk on the block then used brake cleaner to blast away
> the residue... and it is red, red, red.  There is no trace of any other color.
> But the FAQ says that '69 455's were blue.

That seems to ring a bell.  I believe that they were red before thay 
were blue.
- -- 
SLTG

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 23:48:02 -0300
Subject: Re: Big_car_steering_box... 

>It looks the same but the F-bodies have internal stops which can cause havoc

>with your turning circle on an A-body.

Good point, but I wasn't talking about using an early F-body box on an
A-body.  My friend with the F-body wanted to put a late model box on it so
that is why I looked.

Another friend of mine and I put a late model 800 box (from an IROC) on his
67 Chevelle SS with no problems what-so-ever.  All we did was swap the pitman
arms and use the correct adapters from NAPA (which I will send out the part
numbers tomorrow!!!) and use the hybrid rag joint from Chevy pickup.  Up
front he runs 255 15 50's (pretty damn big) with a 1 1/4" sway bar and the
tires don't rub the wheel wells at all! (they do slightly touch the sway bar
due to its size but it is very minimal - the paint on the bar gets worn, but
that is all...)

If anybody needs anymore info, drop me a line and I'll be glad to help.

Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com

------------------------------

From: Lucas Frick <frick@macrochip.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 23:41:23 -0300
Subject: RE: Traction help...was Re: My next driveway cover???

II use the No Hop bars in my 71 442 4 speed with 3.55 posi.  They work =
great!  After the engine rebuild last year, the car hopped all over the =
place.  The increased hp shocked the wheels like never before.  The =
airbags helped a little but when I need to do a burn out - I want to be =
able to dump the clutch hard without any wheel hop.  The No Hop bars =
cured the problem and you can't see them unless you get under the car.  =
It also makes the rear suspension feel tighter.

DO IT!

Luke

- ----------
From:  BobH592058@aol.com[SMTP:BobH592058@aol.com]
Sent:  Monday, July 22, 1996 4:04 PM
To:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject:  Re: Traction help...was Re: My next driveway cover???

In a message dated 96-07-21 11:33:02 EDT, you write:

<< Any of you guy heard about/use the "No Hop Bars" from Lakewood?
 They bolt to the rearend housing where the upper control arm normally=20
 would, then the upper control arm bolts to them.  This shifts the=20
 mounting point of the upper control arm about 3 inches upwards.  I=20
 bought a set thinking that it would be nice to have no wheel hop =
without=20
 the bulky ladder bars hanging underneath the car. Anyways it's a little =

 late now seeing as I already bought them, but are these things any =
good?
 Will they cause undue wear on the forward diff. seal because of the=20
 angle change, or will I be ok using them on the street?
=20
 Thanks,
 Ken
 Cleveland, Oh
 1967 442 Convertible (hop along) >>

Ken, come on.  Don't buy the hype and ruin the street driven capability =
of
your car.

=20

------------------------------

From: mike.blankenship@medaphis.com
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 00:12:15 -0300
Subject: Olds Nats

The traffic here is really not that bad.  Most people are using the Park N Rides
outside of Atlanta and riding MARTA in.  The people with the most trouble are 
the ones working actually downtown.  They are having a nightmare of a time.
By the time the Nationals get here it will be all over anyway.  The Sat of the
show August 10, there is a pretty well attended cruise night about a mile
from The host hotel that starts at about 7:30.  It would be well worth driving
over too.  There will be some fliers made up with directions at the show.

Mike

_________________________________________________________________________

I'll so my best, but I have drawn jury duty today & I hope that that I 
am not found guilty.  Friends who have been in Atlanta talk of 6 hour 
drives through town.  I know that the show is really in Marrietta, 
which is N of town right on I75.  Can we get news on whether to expect 
anything better than the stories that I have heard?
- -- 
SLTG



- ----- End Included Message -----

------------------------------

From: Ken <rottin@en.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 23:26:40 -0300
Subject: Re: Traction help...was Re: My next driveway cover???

BobH592058@aol.com wrote:
> 

> Ken, come on.  Don't buy the hype and ruin the street driven capability of
> your car.
> 
> A list member described the article in Hot Rod (?) about a 9 second ElCamino
> with _no_ wheelie bar slapper pinion angle adjuster fortiseth frammis on the
> boxed left rear control arm b.s.
> 
> I've been running my '67 30 years, yes 30 years, this coming October.  It
> currently turns low 11's on NOS.  And I have had a bunch '64-72 Olds' over
> that time as well.
> 
> My TOTAL traction aids consist of Air Lift bags in the rear coils and
> polyurethane bushings for the control arms.  And the Polyurethane is _not_
> needed.  With 29x10.50x15 McCreary rubber and 4.10 gears my car does no
> hopping - it moves instead because the tires bite.  Pro Stockers need
> extensive chassis tweaking to maximize performance.  A street "A" body does
> not.
> 
> If you have massive (or any) wheel hop look to improving traction.  If the
> tire doesn't break traction it can't hop!  Simple as that.  If you have no
> posi (or even if you do) put ~35 psi in the right rear bag and about 5-10 psi
> in the left.
> 
> If you rear ratio is "long" such as 2.56 - 3.08, when the wheel breaks loose
> the long gear is spinning the tire so fast it can bounce. But adding so
> called "anti-hop" devices will not solve your problem.
> 
> The prescription: take two Air Lift Poly Air bags (such as available from
> Summit et al) and call me the morning after you install as prescribed above..
> 
> Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
> '67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
> Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL  
  Interesting.. The car has a 4.11 posi rear end, and a 4 speed manual 
transmission.  I thought that "wheel hop" was caused from the tire 
biting and not enuff weight/angle on the rearend to hold it down.  So 
instead of staying on the ground like a good tire, it leaps into the air 
, then when it hits and bites again it leaps again, ect... 

  I have never raced a manual transmission car on the track, but I 
assume that I would use trial and error to find the best launch rpm. ie: 
when the tires spin a little then hook.  Isnt this the proper way to 
launch a 4 speed car?  I would think that if the tires didnt spin the 
car would fall flat on its face at the line.. er burn up the clutch er 
loose an important item.. like the rearend.. Am I thinking wrong here?
Your post seems to say get a big fat sticky tire that is unspinable and 
air bags in the springs. 

Confused,
Ken

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #245
********************************

