
oldsmobile-digest           Friday, 19 July 1996        Volume 01 : Number 241


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ken <rottin@en.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 20:52:42 -0300
Subject: yet another question

I was under the impression that a 1967 442 came with a 14 inch crome 
open element air cleaner.. The "Ultra hi compression" plate I ordered 
from Fusic will not fit a 14 inch air cleaner.. maybe a 16inch? <shrug> 
can someone gimme an idea what kind of air cleaner is stock and what 
decals are appropriate?  

Thanks,
Ken 
Cleveland, Oh
1967 442 Convertible

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 00:07:26 -0300
Subject: Re: Heat Soak/Heat Shield 

>I love my cars.
>
>74 Ninety-Eight (The Smog King)
>69 Delta 88 convertible (in pieces)
>69 Delta 88 (parts car for above, no engine or tranny, the guy I bought it
from took   
>                    the 455 out and put it in his 82 Cutlass)
>67 Buick Wildcat (loneliest of the bunch)

.....poor kittycat.

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 22:25:17 -0300
Subject: Roller Rockers & Valve Covers 

For the record, after milling .110" off the pad of the heads and using guide
plates and Harland Sharp roller rockers, the stock valve covers fit using 2
gaskets.  You can't really see the 2nd gasket because of the lip of the valve
cover, and they do not leak.  To determine that the 2 gaskets would give the
valve cover enough height to clear the rockers, I cut a large hole in the top
of an old cover and cut the oil baffle out.  The reason I did this is so that
I could adjust the rockers without getting oil everywhere.

BTW, Fel Pro valve cover gaskets are a little thicker than Mondellos (and fit
better too...)

Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 22:38:20 -0300
Subject: Re: Norwalk report 

Yep, I was in the car show parked between a 72 blue Cutlass Supreme
and dark red 68 Cutlass.  Or parked six cars from the super clean
73 442 from NY.  I ran King of Hill also and ran 12.68 et and eliminated 
first round by a fellow who's rt was .500 on a .500 tree.  My car color was 
saddle bronze  kind of a copper color with tan stripes.


(W Machines)

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 22:39:30 -0300
Subject: Re: net v. gross HP (was Re: 350 to 455 conversion - Part 2) 

Buy the Morosso speed calculator and it will give you your numbers that 
you need.  Make sure you know the weight of your car first and use your 
time slips from Norwalk.

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 17:51:40 -0300
Subject: Re: 10 bolt rear axles

Robert J. Barry wrote:
> 
> At 03:00 PM 7/17/96 -0400, you wrote:
> >Ever seen a Ch*vy on the side of the road with the broken axle sticking 2-3
> >feet out of the housing?  Oh no Mr. Bill!!!!!!
> >
> >Bob Handren
> >'
> 
> Yeah, I've seen the tire about 3' out from the side of the car, but out the
> side-view mirror of my '68 Caprice! And I thought the Powerglide just
> started slipping real bad! 
> 
> BTW, the hint that this might happen to you is a faint moan from the rear
> axle when backing up (mine made no noise going forward).
> 
> Moral of the story: stick with your Olds rear.
> 
> -----------
> - Bob Barry
> -Bob:

Years ago when I had my first chance at the 1968 442 convertible that I 
have now, I took it for a short drive out the 2-lane highway the owner 
lived on.  He told me that it had a bad axle bearing 7 to watch it.  I 
had heard bad bearings before, but there was no noise that I could hear. 
 The car moved on up to 45mph or so & I had just gotten into 4th when it 
seemed to go right out of gear.  Having experienced cars jumping out of 
gear, I just put in the clutch & started to shove it firmly down into 
3rd gear while checking the outside mirror for traffic.  In that mirror 
was a very large tire & wheel which was coming out of the fenderwell of 
that convertible.  Having very little road to park on, I just eased it 
to the right burm while the axle just rode out of the housing.  The car 
nearly set down on the gravel burm.

I believe that even the 'o' type axles can have their problems.  


- -- 
SLTG

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 23:00:31 -0300
Subject: Re: net v. gross HP (was Re: 350 to 455 conversion - Part 2) 

> 
> Buy the Morosso speed calculator and it will give you your numbers that 
> you need.  Make sure you know the weight of your car first and use your 
> time slips from Norwalk.
> 

There is a calculator out on the web somewhere.  I found it once,
but didn't bookmark it.  It shouldn't be hard to find it.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-5450    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 23:22:14 -0300
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Toronado, 425..] 

In a message dated 96-07-17 18:18:06 EDT, you write:

<< That '73 will definitely have a 455 stock.
 
 Yes, the 455 crank&rods will make your '67 425 (from a Toro/Starfire) into a
 455. Keep those heads from the '67, though!
 
 -----------
 - Bob Barry
 - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
 - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)
  >>

The only modification will be to notch the 425 block for the 455 rods.  The
425's I have used actually had the notch outlined in the cylinder bottom
casting.

Bob Handren

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 23:22:23 -0300
Subject: Re: Heat Soak/Heat Shield 

In a message dated 96-07-17 21:01:02 EDT, you write:

<< It's a 67 transmission too, so it's got that variable pitch 
 stator (not hooked up, of course).  
  >>
 Why "of course"?

Use a toggle switch, it's easy as heck to install.

Are you _sure_ the Buick has the switch pitch?  Yea, it came with one but if
it was rebuilt it likely lost the converter then. Why not hook it up and see.

Bob Handren

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 23:22:26 -0300
Subject: Re: Norwalk report 

In a message dated 96-07-17 20:11:35 EDT, you write:

<< On a slightly different note, I'm in a serous battle with afew 
 friends and maybe u guys can help back me up.  They insist that my 442 
 wont break 14's.. I think it should be a mid 14 second car as it sits.. 
 1967 442 Convertible (1967 425 which is stock, headers, 4 speed manual 
 trans, 4.11 posi rear end)  Any ballpark figures on what a car so 
 equiped should run?  I know it's heavy, and maybe the 4 speed gives me a 
 false sence of speed, but damned if it doesnt put ya back in the seat 
 when ya stomp on it.. 
 
 
 Ken
 Cleveland, Oh 
 1967 442 Convertible >>

Ken:

I still have my original owner '67 442.  I ran it a bunch in the late
60's-early70's with essentially the same setup - 425, 4-speed, 4.11 gears.

Although not a convertible, the performance should be in the ballpark.  With
slicks, electric fuel pump, well massaged Q-Jet, headers, good clutch, etc.
it ran consistent mid 12's.  You should be able to get into the 13's without
much trouble.  My neighbor has a '66 GTO with a '67 400.  On BF Goodrich
T/A's he runs high 13's.

It's classic. Olds' get no respect.  Which has allowed me to win a lot of
grudge matches over the years.

Bob Handren
'67 W-30 Modified
'70 SX Modified
Oviedo, FL

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 23:21:57 -0300
Subject: Re: yet another question 

In a message dated 96-07-17 21:12:16 EDT, you write:

<< 
 I was under the impression that a 1967 442 came with a 14 inch crome 
 open element air cleaner.. The "Ultra hi compression" plate I ordered 
 from Fusic will not fit a 14 inch air cleaner.. maybe a 16inch? <shrug> 
 can someone gimme an idea what kind of air cleaner is stock and what 
 decals are appropriate?  
 
 Thanks,
 Ken 
 Cleveland, Oh
 1967 442 Convertible
 
 
  >>
Are you sure you have the right cover plate?  It should have the "442"
emblem, in color as well UH Compression and Premium Fuel Only.  There are
many different plates for all the models.  According to the Year One catalog
the correct diameter is 14".

You also need a chrome retainer which sandwiches the plate to the air cleaner
lid.

Bob Handren
'67 W-30 Modified
'70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 23:19:32 -0300
Subject: Re: 10 bolt rear axles 

In a message dated 96-07-17 18:18:06 EDT, you write:

<< Yeah, I've seen the tire about 3' out from the side of the car, but out
the
 side-view mirror of my '68 Caprice! And I thought the Powerglide just
 started slipping real bad! Luckily I had just come *off* a 70mph shakedown
 run on the highway, and was only pulling slowly away from a light...
 
 BTW, the hint that this might happen to you is a faint moan from the rear
 axle when backing up (mine made no noise going forward).
 
 Moral of the story: stick with your Olds rear.
  >>


Welll Bob, not quite.  The "C" rear can be modified with, would you believe
something called "a C-clip eliminator kit"?  That solves that problem.  

Given the "C" 12-bolt is almost a 9" ring gear, parts are as common as sand
on the beach and almost as cheap, it has some redeeming values once modified
for performance.  NHRA won't allow the faster cars to run one without the
eliminator.

The 9 inch F*rd is the setup these days for many of the same reasons plus you
can change gears by yanking the axels and swapping in the "pumpkin".  But
getting one set up to bolt into the "A" or "G" bodies is a _lot_ more
expensive at the outset.

The F*ord 9" setup is one of several "dreams" I keep the data for in a
special folder in my desk.  Then, when I win the lottery, I can do 'em all!

Bob Handren
'67 W-30 Modified
'70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

------------------------------

From: Dan Williams <dr_olds@kfmw.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 16:51:08 -0300
Subject: More 68 Convrt &  Paint Questions

Ok, I'm still looking at that 68 convertible.  I took it to a guy here 
who restores Oldsmobiles for a living (Rocket Automotive, Cedar Rapids, 
Iowa - FYI).  He know all about the car and says it is a great car.  But 
anyway, he grabs the vin off the engine and it matches.  Also, works up 
an estimate to fix that rust ($425).  Checked the compression on the 
engine and some other stuff.  It all checks out great.  Damn, I just 
need one good reason not to buy this car.  Anyway, I'm still working on 
that owner to come down on the price.  I've been looking for some prices 
in JWO, but seems there hasn't been any for sale in a while.  Found some 
in GM collectors guide.  Asking prices range from 7K to 12K, with a lot 
of them centered around 8K.  Don't have a hemmings to look at.  

I think the problem here is that I want the car too much. It makes it 
hard to be subjective (that is why I posted it up here).  Any other 
pointers?

Ok, now on to other things....I have a fan shroud to put on my 68.  What 
kind of paint should I use on it?  Is the color flat black?

- -Dan
"Looking for convertible 442"

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey King <jking@exame2.dseg.ti.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 23:44:46 -0300
Subject: NAOC Meet

I forget who posted it, but can I have some more information on the 
antique Olds meet in North Texas?  I have a '61 Super 88 I'd love to 
bring (and maybe sell?).  Need dates, times, location, etc.
Thanks, Jeff (61 Super 88  "Moby Dick")

- -- 
==========================================================================
Jeffrey W. King(N5PNU)           Internet: -----> jking@exame2.dseg.ti.com
Route 1, Box 290                 Internet/packet:   n5pnu@dfwgate.ampr.org
Krum, TX. 76249                  Packet:    N5PNU @ N5AUX.#DFW.TX.USA.NOAM
214-956-6031 (work)              214-597-1021 (pager)
817-482-3446 (home)              If none of the above works:    HEY YOU!!!
==========================================================================
               http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/1919
==========================================================================

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 19:03:59 -0300
Subject: Re: More 68 Convrt &  Paint Questions

Dan Williams wrote:
> 
> Ok, I'm still looking at that 68 convertible.  
> 
> Ok, now on to other things....I have a fan shroud to put on my 68.  What
> kind of paint should I use on it?  Is the color flat black?
> 
> -Dan
> "Looking for convertible 442"

Dan:

Man are you in love, but I understand as I own one.  My grandfather said 
that the only things worse than women were cars (he didn't know about 
computers).

The fan shrouds are already a charcoal black plastic.  Clean it w/laquer 
thinner & fine steel wool.  If you must paint it, a semi-flat is better 
than nothing.
- -- 
SLTG

------------------------------

From: Ken <rottin@en.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 23:42:45 -0300
Subject: Re: yet another question

BobH592058@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 96-07-17 21:12:16 EDT, you write:
> 

>   >>
> Are you sure you have the right cover plate?  It should have the "442"
> emblem, in color as well UH Compression and Premium Fuel Only.  There are
> many different plates for all the models.  According to the Year One catalog
> the correct diameter is 14".
> 
> You also need a chrome retainer which sandwiches the plate to the air cleaner
> lid.
> 
> Bob Handren

  Just as I thought, I ordered the wrong "plate".  I thought I was 
getting the "dish" you describe.  Turns out they sent me a cresent 
shaped plate w/ 2 sided tape stuck to the back with the words "ULTRA 
HIGH COMPRESSION" about 1 inch high in red. Hope they will take it back. 
  When I double checked my order sheet just now, I see that I ordered 
the "65-67 all 4bbl plate" and not the "65-67 442 plate" <grumble>

Ken
Cleveland, OH
1967 442 Convertible

------------------------------

From: Graham Stewart <graham.stewart@utoronto.ca>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 03:56:44 -0300
Subject: Re: 67 Buick/Olds Switch pitch

On Wed, 17 Jul 1996 22:22:23 -0400 BobH592058@aol.com wrote:

> From: BobH592058@aol.com> Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 22:22:23 -0400
> Subject: Re: Heat Soak/Heat Shield
> To: oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>
>  Why "of course"?
> 
> Use a toggle switch, it's easy as heck to install.
> 
> Are you _sure_ the Buick has the switch pitch?  Yea, it came with one but if
> it was rebuilt it likely lost the converter then. Why not hook it up and see.
> 
> Bob Handren
> 

Sorry, it's a bit unclear ... Just the transmission from the 67 Buick was installed 
into the 69 Olds.  The pitch control switch was lost in the process.  Also, the 
electrical connector on the transmission to receive both the detent and pitch control 
 should have 2 tangs.  The one for the pitch control has been broken off (so that the 
connector with the single socket (detent) could fit over it.).  I could try to repair it 
and locate a controller switch in the process (or use a toggle) ... all part of the 
rebuilding the car's undergoing (slowly) ...

So, I guess that's not as simple as "of course"

Thanks ... 

Graham Steawrt

------------------------------

From: Tom Crudup <cruduptl@bmi.net>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 01:00:11 -0300
Subject: (no subject)



------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 01:37:42 -0300
Subject: All Sorts of Stuff (kinda long)...was: Re: Mon's posts

	Chris wrote:

> Well, ever try to find Bronze paint. Pretend you don't have a HMNews, a Year
> One Catalog, a Fusick's... Call your local Auto World, see what your Olds paint
> choices are. For the Olds-impaired, it's Blue or Blue, Gold if you are lucky
> enough to get a really smart counter person. Or Che*y Orange of course...
> 
	I had similar problems trying to find green engine paint for my 394 
during my rebuild.  I looked everywhere, only to turn up gallon upon 
gallon of Chubby orange/F*rd blue/even Chrysler blue.  Nothing Olds 
(nothing new there :(.  Sure Fusick and Olds USA had green, but at $8 a 
can! A little much for me.  I finally found a small parts store that had 
Plasti-kote "Alpine Green".  Good stuff, and it looked pretty close to 
the original paint (what little was left of it...at least I think it was 
paint.  Could have been mold.  Either way it was pretty close).  And as 
bonus it was on sale that week.  Two cans was enough to cover pretty much 
everthing, including my garage floor (the newspapapers never 
seemed to cover enough...)

> 
> Believe me, Art, halfway thru this I was wondering what the hell I do this
> sorta stuff for... I guess I love the forged cranks & parts made of
> unobtainium. We had quite a long laugh dragging it down the road as the tires,
> then the rims were ground away... -Chris-

	Ha!  Sounds hilarious!  I had a similar experience a long time ago 
with a shopping car, but we won't talk about that.
 
> > Tire rotation goes uneventfully. For accurate torquing, decide to put
> > one (1) drop of 3-in-1 Oil on each stud and on taper of each lug nut,
> > since they're already looking a little oxidized. Torque each wheel to
> > 100 ft./lbs. as specified in factory manual by tightening in star

	Hmm.  Today when I was removing the wheels on my girlfriends 
Celebrity preparing to replace the front struts (more on that in a 
second) 
I discovered to my dismay, that one of the friendly tire busters over at 
K-Mart (where she bought the front tires) had busted on of the wheel 
studs off, and instead of either A) Actually taking the 5 minutes it 
takes to remove 
the broken stud and replace it, or B) Just be a cheeze-ball and put the 
lug nut on the nub, he C) cross-threaded the lug nut, and destroyed both 
the nut and the remains of the stud.  
	
	Boy, stuff like that really chaps my hyde.  I mean, these guys are 
being paid to be "professional", and they pull crap like that.  I'm only 
a backyard mechanic, and I would never pull a stunt like that.  Anyway, 
off the soapbox, and onto todays tip:  (Warning--this will only make 
sense if you are looking at, or at least familiar with this particular 
setup)

	(This is the stuff about the struts).  Since the Celebrity is a 
clone of the Century/Cutlass Cierra/Poncho 6000 this should apply to any 
of thoes (or collectivly as a CutlaCelebraCentury6000).  When you are 
preparing to remove the front struts, loosen the center nut a little 
before you get them out of the car (yes, the one that holds the upper 
mount in place--the one the book tells you never to loosen until you 
have the spring fully compressed).  Breaking it loose while it is still 
in the car will save a lot of headaches, since it is darn near 
impossible to get the thing loose once it's out, the spring is 
compressed, and the mounting plate is free to spin.  
	Also, for the final removal of that center nut, you can make a 
special tool (alsmost like the mysterious one the book talks 
about...#J-no-one-6has-6it-6 or something like that).  Just use a 13/16" 
spark plug socket for the big nut (has to have the hex cut top to grab) 
an put a 10mm 1/4"drive socket on the strut shaft.  Then put a socket 
extension on the 10mm, and a ratchet.  
	Poof!  You can use the big socket  
to loosen the nut, while the 10mm socket holds the strut rod!  (all of 
course after the spring has been compressed!!!!)  See what I mean?  I'm 
sure this makes no sense, but if you ever have to do this job, just have 
a copy of the handy, and it will become a whole lot clearer.  ;)
Oh, and you need to pull the rubber thing out of the plug socket to make 
enough room for the little socket.

	Anyway, I hope that saves someone a headache or two.

	And Chris, like everyone else here, I'm really sorry to see you go.  
You've been a great help to a great many people and you will be missed.  
I also hope you return as soon as possible, as the list just isn't the 
same without you.

	
				Scott
			1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 01:40:50 -0300
Subject: Re: net v. gross HP (was Re: 350 to 455 conversion - Part 2)

> > Buy the Morosso speed calculator and it will give you your numbers that 
> > you need.  Make sure you know the weight of your car first and use your 
> > time slips from Norwalk.
> > 
> 
> There is a calculator out on the web somewhere.  I found it once,
> but didn't bookmark it.  It shouldn't be hard to find it.

	
	I've seen it too.  I think I found it either directly on Brycemans 
web page, or else through one of the links.

	Also, the tire chart I mentioned is in the works.  So far I've made 
it through the 13 inch rim size, and about half way through the 14.  It's 
just a massive ammount of numbers to type in!  :)

			Scott 1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 02:01:59 -0300
Subject: To drill or not to drill 403 oil galley plug? 

Back to my 403 buildup...

Chris Witt mentioned a .040" hole in the left-side galley plug, which is
usually missing from the plugs included in freeze-plug kits (as it was in my
kit). So I figured I'd pull the new plug and replace it with the original
one with the hole.

Except, the original plug has no hole. Apparently, the 403 lasted for quite
a while with an under-lubricated distributor gear.

So, should there be a hole there or not? I'd like to get a definitive answer
before I put everything back together on Friday.

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 05:56:08 -0300
Subject: My next driveway cover??? 

     Well, I got the Rockit ripped apart and found two spun rod bearings.
Cleaned the crank and put in two new ones (Just a band-aid, I know)  Fired
it up, and ~Viola~...  It idles, and only knocks when I rev it up!  Cool!
(NOT)  I guess I should have swallowed my lack of ambition under the car and
tried to get the mains off, too.  Oh well, I can drive it some, now.  I
think I found the next powerplant, though.  It's a 67 425 (367 horse, acc'd
to the guy...)  Still sitting on a crate, with ~zero~ miles on it.  Bored
over with oversized rings (do people ~actually~ still do that?!!)  but
everything else looks good enough to sit under my hood.  I walked in his
shop, and saw the block sitting about fifteen feet away.  Here's when I
realized that this list is really getting to me.  At first I didn't notice
any of the glaring points I'd normally get on first impressions (like the
red/orange paint, or the glove hanging off the waterpump, or the duct tape
coverring four intake holes rather than two, or whether there were exhaust
manifolds on the heads, etc...)  No, I didn't see ANY of that stuff.  From
15' away, the FIRST thing my eyes caught was the letter "C" on the corner of
the head!  Is that pathetic, or what!!  (Well, I guess it's kinda cool,
too...)  After I got closer, I found everything else.  Oh, hardenned seats,
too.  I'll find out more about the tech's of the o'haul next time I see him
(this all took place at 11PM)  
     OK, here's the catch...  I can get the engine, but I gotta take the car
with it.  '67 98 Convert.  Serious.  A bit rough (ya know I'm
underexaggerating THAT part...) but fairly complete.  Top's been down for
years, but a canvas tarp coverring the interior.  Looked good in the back
seat area, couldn't see much of the front 'cuz there was a ~DOOR~ on the
seat, but it seems to be a good project car.  I can break in the 425 in the
Rockit, and by the time I hit 35000 miles, I could put it in a really cool
poptop and have something else...  A local salvage place here has another
'67 98, I can get the front bumper it needs from there.  I'm kinda pumped on
this thing.  I need to get me some cash flowing in here to do this, and
quickly!  (dammit!)  Here's the cool part...  Two years ago he was asking
$1000 for the pair.  Now he says "make me an offer!"  I like the sound of
that.  
   
     Found a few other prospects in a local lot today.  Found a '64 F-85
4door, 330, "1" heads, couldn't for the life of me get a block ID, tho'...  
     '74 455, "J" heads, "yank, yank..."  (regionalized terms of boredom,
for those that just got lost!)
     '70 Delta 4door, 350, "2" block, "7" heads, identical body to my last
donor.  
     ~~~Chris:  If you've still got John Davenport's phone#, could you email
it to me?  I lost it somewhere/somehow, and need to get a hold of him...~~~

     Still haven't found a posi for my GS.  I need one soon...  I've been
beat 4 times in the past 2 weeks!  We are going to try to get a race day
thing going on up here this weekend.  (our nearest "legal" 1/8m track is 100
miles away and the nearest 1/4m is around 200, so this is going to be just
like the good old days...)  We've got two camcorders for it, and hopefully
get some stills for a web page, too.  There's a new Chevelle 454 needing an
educating about the aspects of GM's ~real~ divisions, and it's up to my GS
and a friend's GTO to do so--I'm afraid I wouldn't get the convertible going
by then, :(   I'll need to have a rematch against that blown 400 @hevy that
got me, too.  

     ANYWAY...  Those who have made it ~this~ far, let me know what ya
think.  is this 98 a good find?  How abundant were they?  I don't have many
details of options, etc.  I didn't see what remained under the hood, or much
of the dash.  I saw a steering wheel, but that's about it...

    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 06:24:12 -0300
Subject: Re: c'ya! 

>Chris,
>
>We will surely miss you on this list.  I hope you can make it back on soon
>and if you can't then the name "The Rocket Scientist" will be made into
>Legend Status in my book ;^)


     Actually, I think that part was achieved long ago...!  I fully agree
with everyone else here:  We're gonna miss ya.  You could sure "peek in" and
say hi every now and again, tho.      Oh, and good luck getting your fan
clean!!!            (Feces is now impinging on the air-moving device...)
It's been good!

    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 08:05:52 -0300
Subject: Today is a Dour Day in Oldsmobile History

On this day, July 18th, back in 1969, Senator Edward Moore Kennedy, of the
Commonwealth of Massachusetts, took his secretary in his Olds Delta 88 to
a little spot off Chappaquidick Island on Martha's Vineyard so he could
pitch a li'l woo with her.

Unfortunately, he forgot to account for the tides (not to mention the lack
of guardrails -- aka DWI car steerers -- on the ol' Chappaquidick bridge),
so he ended up parking his 88 in seven feet of Vineyard Sound.

Good citizen that he was, he called AAA 12 hours later.



Tim (I live in Massachusetts and I vote) Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'88 Cadillac Brougham, a.k.a. 'Big Blue' -- Olds 307 Powered!!
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 08:11:58 -0300
Subject: Re: c'ya!

Chris:

What is the world coming to??  I dearly hope you can make it back, even
if only for the occasional visit -- I already miss the humor of your
"Witt"-icisms and stories of inspiration (you're a man who'll not let little
things like no tires, axles cemented in petrified mud, and nests of Killer
Bees in the air cleaner stop you from dragging a prize home to extract
a forged crank :) )

July 18th truly is a dour day in Olds history.



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'88 Cadillac Brougham, a.k.a. 'Big Blue' -- Olds 307 Powered!!
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 09:55:47 -0300
Subject: 

Subscribe Oldsmobile

Sincerely

James Thingwold
Glass Line Newsletter 
120 S Kroeger St.
Anaheim, CA.  92805-4011  USA

Phone: (714) 520-0121
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
E-Mail:                                  jht@exo.com  
OR                                        jim@hotglass.com

No frames :                          http://www.hotglass.com/

NetScape,  Frames :          http://exo.com/~jht/index.html
This document is designed to be viewed using Java & Netscape 2.0's Frame
Features
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

.

------------------------------

From: clark@sh28.dseg.ti.com (Pat Clark 952-3776)
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 09:59:12 -0300
Subject: pooky on spark plug wires

Now a voice from the void.....

Hiya guys,

Been off of the list for what, 5 years now? (just seems that way, jeez my mailbox is empty). Thought I would pop in and ask a quick question. What, if anything
do you put on your connections between your spark plug wires and the cap? Isn't
There some type of dielectric grease that you can put on there to reduce corrosion and give better electrical contact? Please reply to my e-mail address in my
sig cause I am not subsrcribed to the list.

PS - Pooky is a technical term around here, along with Jizz, Doofus,.....


 				Pat Clark
    				 69 442
    			        400/TH400
    			  clark@abu.dseg.ti.com

     The careful application of terror is also a form of communication.

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 09:50:08 -0300
Subject: Re: pooky on spark plug wires

[...posted and emailed...]

>Isn't there some type of dielectric grease that you can put on there 
>to reduce corrosion and give better electrical contact?

Yup, a kind of whitish greasy stuff called simply dielectric grease.
You can buy it separately although a little goes a long way; it
usually comes in the form of a little squeeze packet (McDonald's
ketchup size or smaller) which comes with the box of new plug wires, 
gets overlooked at the bottom of the box and is thrown away by the
installer. Scientists suspect that the same packets may be retrieved
from the landfill and sold over and over again.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 14:02:40 -0300
Subject: Re: (no subject)

And no message!

The 66 Toro and Mike

------------------------------

From: "AUVAX7::RILES" <RILES%AUVAX7.decnet@auscam.amd.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 11:11:00 -0300
Subject: Convertible Top Replacement Tips

To anyone,

My '71 Cutlass convertible is in need of a top replacement.  Any tips on things 
to look out for when selecting a top?  My concerns are:

	- fabric
	- thickness
	- rear window (glass) reusability
	- re-enforcement at stress points. (My old top is split where the 	
	  supports flex above the rear windows).

I've already had the hydraulics and motor replaced.

Cost is definately a factor in the replacement.  I've seen replacements in 
catalogues from $300-$400 and heard of shops charging up to $700.  What should 
I expect to pay for labor if I order from a catalogue?

Thanks for any input to these questions.

Robert Iles
'71 Cutlass Supreme Convertible

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 14:19:22 -0300
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Toronado, 425..]

Robert J. Barry wrote:
> 
> 
> Yes, the 455 crank&rods will make your '67 425 (from a Toro/Starfire) 
> into a 455. Keep those heads from the '67, though!

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't there a bit of a trade off by 
going the 455 route.  That is the 455 will prolly give you higher torque 
but lower rpm while the 425 configuration will give lower torque with 
higher rpms?  It would seem it depends on the application: a strip 
monster or a road monster.   

Thoughts?

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: tmorris@bt1dc18e.bet.ibm.com
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 07:12:56 -0300
Subject: An Olds owner once again

It's been almost a year and half since I sold my 70 Cutlass and I'm proud to say I've 
finally found a new Olds:  71 442 4 sp.  Not a show car, probably a 3 at best but solid 
mechanically and should be a lot of fun to tinker with and improve.  It's got: buckets,
console, 455 rebuilt with 10:1 pistons, A/C, ram air hood, Hurst Super Shifter, performer 
intake, PDB, new tires, etc.  Bad things:  some bubbles in qrters, minor rust in floor pans, 
needs a radio, replace the package tray, redone carpet is kind of sloppy, steering gear is
shot.  

A couple questions:

1.  The parking brake seems to be unusually stiff.  What lubricant is reccommended? 
2.  How does one determine whether the rear is Posi?
3.  I'm doing the steering gear this weekend.  Any tips, suggestions?  

thanks


Todd Morris
71 442 4 Sp.
65 Chevrolet Caprice

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 06:42:06 -0300
Subject: Re: (no subject)

Mike Frederick wrote:
> 
> And no message!
> 
> The 66 Toro and Mike

This is like radio - you have to use your imagination!
- -- 
SLTG

------------------------------

From: idaholc@primenet.com (William Goodnight)
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 11:52:39 -0300
Subject: rear end ratios 

Does anyone have specifications for a '49-50 Olds 88?  I need to know what
the highest rear end ratios available.

idaholc@primenet.com 

------------------------------

From: "Michael Calvo" <mcalvo@hologic.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 12:52:26 -0300
Subject: Cost of a '70 442 W30 

     
     Hey all,
     
     Tonight I'm going to possibly buy a '70 442 W30 and I wanted to get an 
     idea what people thought was a fair price.
     
     The car:
     
     1970 442 W30, 4 speed, non power steering non power brakes with 70k 
     miles. The Vin checks out (344870M325506) and it has a numbers 
     matching block (396021F), correct cylinder heads (F), the right 
     aluminum manifold but the wrong carb. The fiberglass hood is in great 
     shape and all the OAI pieces are there as well as the red inner 
     fenders.  The motor was rebuilt 10-11K ago (some receipts), is clean 
     and the entire engine compartment is pretty well detailed. The car has 
     the M21 close ratio tranny (makes a little noise, maybe time for a 
     rebuild), it also came with the 3:91 12 bolt posi which is currently 
     out of the car but intact but in definite need of a rebuild, it was 
     replaced with another Cutlass non-posi 12 bolt, front disc brakes, 
     boxed lower control arms and sway bars are there as well. The interior 
     is ok, dash good, package tray ok, ralley pac's tach works but clock 
     doesn't. It has the console and an am/fm with the 8track player, but 
     none of that works.  At on time the seats and headliner were done in a 
     custom black velour with red piping but now they have faded to a gold 
     color and generally looks like shit. The car has solid floors and the 
     trunk looked real good (even has the spare).  It has one perfect 
     fender, and two good doors but the other fender and the quarters have 
     their share of plastic, (sigh, I am in New England but it was in a 
     garage for 15 years).  The Olds was repainted black when the body work 
     was done, (on top of gold) over five years ago and has faded and 
     started to flake in a couple of places, the worst of which is the 
     drivers door.  The bumpers are straight with a little surface rust, 
     and the rear has the cutouts. The entire brake system is new as well 
     as the exhaust (with trumpets) and tires which sit on P05 Super Stock 
     1 wheels. The car's ride height is good.  I'm going tonight to hear it 
     run and drive it with a mechanic buddy who rebuilds manual trannys and 
     rear ends.  The owner of the car lives at his parents home, has two 
     young kids with his girlfriend, is at home currently, having been 
     injured at his job (as a mechanic) and generally needs the cash. 
     Asking price $6,800 which he says is firm.  He drove the car every 
     where. The car was given to him by the original owner (friend of his 
     fathers) and he says he has about $10K into it.  The car was purchased 
     by a local Olds dealership which is still around.  If every thing else 
     checks out I plan on offering $6,000 in cash on the spot with a 
     ceiling of $6,200.  What do you people think the car is worth?
     
     Sorry for all the detail, I thought it would help.
     
     Michael Calvo
     mcalvo@hologic.com
     (617)684-3370
     '68 Cutlass Supreme (restification goes on hold if I get this car) 

------------------------------

From: "AUVAX7::RILES" <RILES%AUVAX7.decnet@auscam.amd.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 11:56:00 -0300
Subject: RE: An Olds owner once again

Todd,

I'm no expert, but I've heard that you can replace the steering gear with a 
close ratio one from an early 80's Camaro or some such (with minor 
modifications).  It is supposed to improve the feel greatly.  You can always 
buy a close-ratio box from one of the restoration houses, but pay an arm and a 
leg.

My 2 cents,
Robert Iles

------------------------------

From: idaholc@primenet.com (William Goodnight)
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 12:20:32 -0300
Subject: another rear end question 

Can anyone tell me the stock gear ratio for a rear end from a 1971 Delta 88
w/455 engine and Hydro trans?

idaholc@primenet.com

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 07:09:07 -0300
Subject: Re: Convertible Top Replacement Tips

AUVAX7::RILES wrote:
> 
> To anyone,
> 
> My '71 Cutlass convertible is in need of a top replacement.  Any tips on things
> to look out for when selecting a top?  My concerns are:
> 
>         - fabric
>         - thickness
>         - rear window (glass) reusability
>         - re-enforcement at stress points. (My old top is split where the
>           supports flex above the rear windows).
> 
>   What should
> I expect to pay for labor if I order from a catalogue?
> 
> Thanks for any input to these questions.
> 
> Robert Iles
> '71 Cutlass Supreme Convertible

Robert:

I've had 2 done recently.  One is on a 1989 Lebaron where I bought the 
top from J.C. Whitney & had it installed.  This one cost around $150 
w/no rear window & lifetime warranty.  The company's name on the box was 
Crown (which I've heard good & bad on).  The top's been on a year in AL 
heat & always outside; fits nice & looks nice   Installation was $160 
but the workmanship could be better.  It is probably as good as factory 
though.

The 2nd is a 1963 Dodge.  I paid $500 for top & installation.  This top 
has a plastic window  I don't know the supplier's name, but I believe 
that it is not Crown & it has a 5 year warranty.  It is kept inside & 
used about 15-20 times over it's 8 mo life.  It fits & looks very nice 
but is already showing wear at the back where it folds next to the 
quarter window & the body.  This may be an installation problem or a 
design problem w/Dodge.  The installer & I will discuss it soon.     

I believe that there are only about 3 or 4 companies that make these 
things & then everyone uses them as their suppliers.  I would get the 
best grade that you could afford.  Don't get an upholstery place to make 
one from scratch unless you are SURE that they know what they are doing. 
The vinyl impregnated ones are the most practical.  Canvas ones stain so 
badly, fade, & generally don't wear so well unless you get superior 
grade ones.

I have not installed one, but intend to do so on my 1968 442.  I expect 
severe frustration, but it can't be much worse than installing 
headliners & I have done that a few times.  I understand that it takes a 
couple of days (optimistically) & 2 people to do the job.  Instructions 
come w/Crown tops & possibly others.  Some restoration books discuss 
this topic well too.

Finally, don't forget the pads.  They are a large part of the life of 
the top as it beats against the bows & folds into the well.  Rear 
curtains w/glass windows can be freshened by using vinyl top paint.  If 
yours is very good, save money & only buy the top made w/material that 
matches the curtain material you have
- -- 
SLTG

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 05:26:28 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: net v. gross HP (was Re: 350 to 455 conversion - Part 

     I believe I saw one once at the Harvey Racing home page (I think 
     http://www.harveyracing.com).  If that aint' it, a search engine can 
     probably find one for ya.


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: net v. gross HP (was Re: 350 to 455 conversion - Part 2)
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    7/17/96 7:55 PM


> 
> Buy the Morosso speed calculator and it will give you your numbers that 
> you need.  Make sure you know the weight of your car first and use your 
> time slips from Norwalk.
> 
     
There is a calculator out on the web somewhere.  I found it once, 
but didn't bookmark it.  It shouldn't be hard to find it.
     

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 05:26:24 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Norwalk report 

     Since I live up in the sticks (Washington State), I probably won't 
     make it to Norwalk any year soon.  But, I thought I might throw in an 
     idea that I saw work very sucessfully on the gnttype mailing list.  At 
     their nationals all the internet folks agreed to put a large white 
     letter "I" (for Internet) in the back window.  Cut out of a piece of 
     notebook paper, and taped in.  They said it worked really good to help 
     find each other.  Don't see why it couldn't work for us, I'd be happy 
     to put something like that in my window at any semi-large Olds event 
     that I go to.
     
     Hmm... what if we used a rocket or something rather than an I?  Or 
     maybe even get really fancy and make a mailing list logo of some sort 
     on somebodies web page that we can print out.
     
Tom.

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Norwalk report
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    7/17/96 5:55 PM


RbtNeumann@aol.com wrote:
> one...and asked him if his name was Dink...he laughed in my face and said
> "nope, my name's Sandy."  Nice guy.  As for Ken...didn't see any cars exactly 
> like the one you described as yours, but some came close.  And Mark...there
> was so many 442's like yours there that you probably just camoflaged right 
> in...sorry if I missed you.
> 
     
  I saw you, wasnt sure so didnt come up to ya..  Your 88 is Dk. Blue 
rite?  I got there too late and they wouldnt let me race, but I agree 
100%, it was awesome.. The swap meet area was a laff though.. :(  I got 
my tee-shirt signed by Joe Mondello and picture w/ him too. 
     

------------------------------

From: Dan Dale <daleds@okra.millsaps.edu>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 12:50:10 -0300
Subject: RE: An Olds owner once again 

>A couple questions:
>
>2.  How does one determine whether the rear is Posi?

the way I've always been told is to jack up both rear wheels and if they spin
the same direction then is is a posi. 





- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
$Dan Dale daleds@okra.millsaps.edu http://www.millsaps.edu/~daleds/index.html $
$cars: 1972 Cotner-Bevington Oldsmobile 98 Endloader, 1966 Pontiac GTO, 1973  $
$Imperial LeBaron, 1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-X, 1955 Cadillac Seville, 1969  $
$Cadillac DeVille Convertibles (2), 1976 Cadillac Series 75 Fleetwood Brougham$
$1961 Imperial Custom, 1973 Buick Riviera                                     $
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: "Garnet Randolph" <garnet.randolph@ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 13:48:57 -0300
Subject: Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 #240

From: RbtNeumann@aol.com
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 18:50:20 -0300
Subject: Re: net v. gross HP (was Re: 350 to 455 conversion - Part 2) 
[snip]  
I know there is an equation using strip times (or speeds), car weight, and
gear ratios (including tire size) to compute HP (SAE net, I'm guessing).  Does
anyone know this equation?  I've seen it before in that book on car related
math.
 
Thanks.

- - -Aaron

Aaron,
This can be found at 
"http://www.dsm.org/Fun/CalcHP.html"

You may also want to check out 
""http://devserve.cebaf.gov/~bowling/auto.html"
for many other automotive-related formulas (formulii?)
- -Garnet

- ---------------------
Garnet Randolph
53#161# 32' 10" N
113#161# 18' 55" W
Sherwood Park, Alberta
CANADA 
FAX and answering machine 
(403) 449-3805
garnet.randolph@ei.educ.ab.ca

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 12:57:46 -0300
Subject: V6 

i dont know if my message got lost back in the melee of bouncing messages,
but does anyone know of a way to get morepower out of the 4.3 V6...i am
toying with this because of the dead 4 bolt main 350 sitting in my garage,
and the fact that it might take me a while to get the parts together...thanks
                        zack

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 05:56:20 -0300
Subject: Re: pooky on spark plug wires 

     (sending a copy to the list and via e-mail)
     
     Yes, there's a dielectric grease that you put on the connectors.  Also 
     should go on the spark plug end too.  I got a little tube by Permatex 
     at the local auto store (I think it was labeled as dielectric tune-up 
     grease).  I didn't think that small tube would go far, but it's lasted 
     for quite a while now and I've hardly used any.  That couple-of-buck 
     tube will probably last me 15 years.
     
     Wipe a thin coating on the cap terminals and plugs, and also some 
     inside the plug boots with a q-tip.  Just a thin coating, you don't 
     want to "goop" it.
     
     Did I forget to shower or something?  Seems everyone is leaving us 
     lately!
     
Tom.

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: pooky on spark plug wires
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    7/18/96 6:25 AM

 is empty). Thought I would pop in and ask a quick question. What, if anything
     do you put on your connections between your spark plug wires and the 
     cap? Isn't There some type of dielectric grease that you can put on 
     there to reduce 

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 05:56:16 -0300
Subject: Battery Q's. 

     Okay, woke up this morning to discover the battery on my '84 H/O was 
     near death.  Enough juice to turn the engine over maybe once.  Lights 
     still worked fine.  Started fine after a jump, I hope it starts this 
     evening when I leave work.  I kept minimal electrical accessories on 
     during the commute, but the voltmeter still seemed to read a bit low 
     (about 13v, normally almost 14).
     
     I checked around for obvious things left on that could have drained 
     the power overnight, and didn't find anything.  The battery is a few 
     years old, and I didn't expect it to make it through last winter (it 
     did, just fine).  It seems to have gave no warning and just quit.  
     I've never seen a battery do that before, usually you get some warning 
     from slow starts.
     
     Is it common for batteries to just up and die like this?  The weather 
     the last 1 1/2 weeks has been hot (90-95 degrees), with a sudden drop 
     last night down to a low of 50-55 due to a thunderstorm.  Could the 
     sudden temperature drop do it?
     
     Lastly, anyone tried one of those Optima batteries?  I'm considering 
     one if I need a replacement.
     
     Tom.
     

------------------------------

From: <tc75918@hpr169.mdhc.mdc.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 13:11:15 -0300
Subject: Re: net v. gross HP (was Re: 350 to 455 conversion - Part 2)

> 
> > 
> > Buy the Morosso speed calculator and it will give you your numbers that 
> > you need.  Make sure you know the weight of your car first and use your 
> > time slips from Norwalk.
> > 
> 
> There is a calculator out on the web somewhere.  I found it once,
> but didn't bookmark it.  It shouldn't be hard to find it.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
> lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
> (810) 825-5450    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
> Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v
> 
> 

Try http://devserve.cebaf.gov/%7Ebowling/auto.html

It's Automotive Programs by Bowling.  Pretty good and has lots of good
auto calclation utilities.

- --Dan

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 12:34:59 -0300
Subject: Re: 10 bolt rear axles 

> From oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca Wed Jul 17 22:05 EDT 1996
> Date: 	Wed, 17 Jul 1996 17:51:40 -0300
> From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
> X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; I)
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> > >Ever seen a Ch*vy on the side of the road with the broken axle sticking 2-3
> > >feet out of the housing?  Oh no Mr. Bill!!!!!!
> > 
> > Yeah, I've seen the tire about 3' out from the side of the car, but out the
> > side-view mirror of my '68 Caprice! And I thought the Powerglide just
> > started slipping real bad! 
> > 
> > Moral of the story: stick with your Olds rear.
> > 
> 
> Years ago when I had my first chance at the 1968 442 convertible that I 
.
.
.
> 3rd gear while checking the outside mirror for traffic.  In that mirror 
> was a very large tire & wheel which was coming out of the fenderwell of 
> that convertible.  Having very little road to park on, I just eased it 
> to the right burm while the axle just rode out of the housing.  The car 
> nearly set down on the gravel burm.
> 
> I believe that even the 'o' type axles can have their problems.  

Been there.  Done that.  Three times.  Fortunately, I have those
fender skirts over my rear tires.  When the tire hits the skirt, it
makes such a racket, you know to pull over.  And it doesn't even
damage the skirt.  It's tough on the tire, though.

One rear end and two half shafts later, I seem to have the problem
licked.   Uh... knock on wood.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-5450    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 12:39:49 -0300
Subject: Re: Cost of a '70 442 W30 

>     1970 442 W30, 4 speed, non power steering non power brakes with 70k 
>     miles. The Vin checks out (344870M325506) and it has a numbers 
>     matching block (396021F)

Somebody explain this part, please? Numbers matching _what_? Obviously not
the VIN. I always thought it _was_ the VIN, although I never checked it
all that thoroughly; the owner's manual simply said something along the
lines of "a derivative of the VIN is stamped on the engine block"... Does
the block number match the _body_ number? In a "numbers matching" car, IOW,
which numbers match which other numbers?

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: hpnaepflin@CCGATE.HAC.COM
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 15:02:33 -0300
Subject: Re: Need assist with Olds ID - Summary for '72 

>'72 Cutlasses came with a 350 as standard you could order a 455 (option). It 
>also came with the 2BBL unless it had dual exhaust in which case the 4BBL may 
>have been used. But a 2BBL with dual exhaust is still possible but I havn't 
>seen any as of yet. 

Speaking of dual X 350's, I've been on the lookout for them in the pick-a-parts 
so I can replace my cheezeball welded off tube on the RH mainfold with a real RH 
dual X manifold.  Finally found a 71 or 2 Cutlass 2 door 350 2 BBL (no 442 
logos) at a pic-a-part in Modesto CA.  Crawled under to check the exhaust and Lo 
and behold it looks like a factory dual with a nice little cover plate bolted on 
to the extra hole in the RH Xman.  Was this the way all small block duals came 
from the factory or is this some aftermarket or dealer installed thing?  Snagged  
the cover plate for like 2 bucks naturally.

By the way, been lurking on the digest and just got back from a weeks vacation 
whick took my '70 Cutlass Convertible for 1300 miles including a trip over 9400 
foot Sonora Pass in the Sierra Nevadas and a couple hundred miles through the 
mohave desert in the afternoon (100+ deg).  She ran flawlessly (if a bit thirsty 
16 MPG avg) and broke 230000 miles on the ODO.  The "Old Lady" was not amused by 
the nonfunctional air however and didn't take things nearly as well, think we'll 
take her '90 Accord next time ;)

A few months ago the idea of putting brake fluid into the tranny was batted 
about and I went 4 it because for several years now she occasionally didn't want 
to pop into gear right away the first thing in the morning.  DONT LEAVE THE 
STUFF IN THERE!  After a couple of months the fluid started turning real dark 
but it continued to function OK and the not going into gear in the morning 
problem did seem to go away.  I swapped the fluid by popping off the upper trans 
cooler line at the radiator put hoses on both ends, run into an old antifreeze 
jug,  start engine run until a couple quarts pump out, replace through dipstick 
tube, repeat  until 8 quarts are pumped through.  Seemed to work, fluid looks 
fresh.  No removing pan or draining converter.  Any comments on this method?  
Yeah I know,  I did change the filter about a year ago.  The not going into gear 
in the morning problem does seem to be fixed for now.....

OLDS4FR    (vanity plate idea, feel free to use it)     
442 1AB    (on a dual ex cutlass??)

Hans,  70 Cutlass Supreme Convertible

------------------------------

From: "Michael Calvo" <mcalvo@hologic.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 15:12:17 -0300
Subject: re: Cost of a '70 442 W30 

     
     Andrew C. Green wrote:
     
     >  Somebody explain this part, please? Numbers matching _what_? 
     >  Obviously not the VIN. I always thought it _was_ the VIN, although 
     >  I never checked it all that thoroughly; the owner's manual simply 
     >  said something along the lines of "a derivative of the VIN is 
     >  stamped on the engine block"... Does the block number match the 
     >  _body_ number? In a "numbers matching" car, IOW, which numbers 
     >  match which other numbers?
     
     Sorry for the confusion, there are two numbers on the block, the unit 
     number which is on a pad on the drivers side, in this case 325506 
     which matches the unit number portion of the VIN and then there is the 
     block casting number at the front below the intake rail, 396021 F 
     which means it's a 68-76 455.
     
     Michael

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 14:20:33 -0300
Subject: Re: 67 Buick/Olds Switch pitch 

In a message dated 96-07-18 00:05:37 EDT, you write:

<< Sorry, it's a bit unclear ... Just the transmission from the 67 Buick was
installed 
 into the 69 Olds.  The pitch control switch was lost in the process.  Also,
the 
 electrical connector on the transmission to receive both the detent and
pitch control 
  should have 2 tangs.  The one for the pitch control has been broken off (so
that the 
 connector with the single socket (detent) could fit over it.).  I could try
to repair it 
 and locate a controller switch in the process (or use a toggle) ... all part
of the 
 rebuilding the car's undergoing (slowly) ...
 
 So, I guess that's not as simple as "of course"
 
 Thanks ... 
 
 Graham Steawrt
  >>

Graham, that bent off connector tells me that the probability the switch
pitch converter was tossed during a rebuild is getting close to 100%.  The
easiest way to check would be to drop the pan (and change the filter while
you're at it.)  If the switch pitch is still there, there should be two wires
leading from the conncector, one to the kick down solenoid which you can see
and the other snaking to a similar solenoid on the front pump, which you can
not easily see.

If both wires are there a replacement connector with the two blades in tact
is available from GM.

To make the converter work all you need is a 12V source (only hot when the
ignition switch is on) and a toggle switch.  When 12V is applied the stator
blades will be at the higher angle (loose) setting, off the low (tight)
angle.  As explained in an earlier post, originally the converter was
controlled by a switch system in the throttle linkage.  Loose on idle and at
full throttle, tight the rest of the time.

It's a neat feature if your trans still has it.  There is a readily apparent
positive effect on performance.  GM dropped it because 99 44/100 % of buyers
could care less.

Bob Handren
'67 W-30 Modified
'70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 14:20:16 -0300
Subject: Re: My next driveway cover??? 

In a message dated 96-07-18 04:52:43 EDT, you write:

<<    Still haven't found a posi for my GS.  I need one soon...  I've been
 beat 4 times in the past 2 weeks!  We are going to try to get a race day
 thing going on up here this weekend.  >>


Get a set of "Air Lift" poly air cylinders.  Summitt has 'em for about $50.
 Pre-load the right rear spring by about 35 psi versus 10-15 psi on the left.

Amazing what a difference they make.  I've been using them on _many_ Olds for
about 40 years.  They work guys!  Not quite posi but with otherwise fair-good
traction make a real difference.

Bob Handren
'67 W-30 Modified
'70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 14:18:04 -0300
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Toronado, 425..] 

In a message dated 96-07-18 10:23:40 EDT, you write:

<< Correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't there a bit of a trade off by 
 going the 455 route.  That is the 455 will prolly give you higher torque 
 but lower rpm while the 425 configuration will give lower torque with 
 higher rpms?  It would seem it depends on the application: a strip 
 monster or a road monster.   
 
 Thoughts?
 
 The 66 Toro and Mike >>


Oh Mike, you must have expected me yo jump into this.  Right?  You
instigator.

IMHO the 425 is the best motor Olds made.  There is very little trade of in
torque and, yes. it can be reved higher.  The 425 uses a _forged_ crank and
with forged pistons, polished and shot peened rods, oil restrictors, etc. is
near bullet proof on gas and moderate NOS loads.

The _only_ problem is the lack of cheap forged pistons a la TRW.  They don't
make 'em anymore.  Oh, and some have the 39 degree lifter angle which is not
really a problem if you get your cam from a reputable manufacturer.

Long live the 425!

Bob Handren
'67 W-30 Modified
'70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 14:18:44 -0300
Subject: Re: Cost of a '70 442 W30 

In a message dated 96-07-18 11:04:11 EDT, you write:

<<  ralley pac's tach works but clock 
      doesn't. >>

BREAK OUT THE WD-40!

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 14:20:10 -0300
Subject: Re: An Olds owner once again 

In a message dated 96-07-18 11:04:11 EDT, you write:

<< Todd,
 
 I'm no expert, but I've heard that you can replace the steering gear with a 
 close ratio one from an early 80's Camaro or some such (with minor 
 modifications).  It is supposed to improve the feel greatly.  You can always

 buy a close-ratio box from one of the restoration houses, but pay an arm and
a 
 leg.
 
 My 2 cents,
 Robert Iles
  >>

Check out the July Car Craft, the one with "101 tech tips".  The steering box
is described including the GM p/n.  It is apparently available new if you
want to spend the $$.  Otherwise they tell you which cars it came (e.g. Buick
Turbo GN et al) and how to ID the box. Theres a two letter code on the bottom
plate.

For what it's worth (about $0.02), the '70 up Cutlass/442 box is a BIG
improvement over the earlier ones.  The originals had about 7 turns lock to
lock and with the original steam boat steering wheels those turns were huge.
 Using a later 4-spoke and '70 steering gear made all the differenc in the
world on the '67.  Like a new car.

It just depends how quick a steering ratio you want and how much you're
willing to spend.

Year One has them also (apparently used but "tested")  for $269.  They're a
last resort.

Bob Handren
'67 W-30 Modified
'70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 14:20:43 -0300
Subject: Re: rear end ratios 

In a message dated 96-07-18 11:04:11 EDT, you write:

<< Does anyone have specifications for a '49-50 Olds 88?  I need to know what
 the highest rear end ratios available.
 
 idaholc@primenet.com 
  >>

Don't have the specs but owned a '56 for about 10 years.  With the stick
shift it had a 3.64 rear I think.  Automatics had a higher (lower numerical)
ratio.

Anyone have an old Shop Manual?

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 17:35:12 -0300
Subject: Re: Battery Q's.

Tom Lentz wrote:

> ...but the voltmeter still seemed to read a bit low (about 13v, 
> normally almost 14).

13.8 would be perfect.  The fact that it has dropped *tends* to indicate 
a charging problem; however, it is possible for a very low battery to 
pull the voltage down.

> Is it common for batteries to just up and die like this?

Sure it is.  Often what happens is crud will accumulate in the bottom of 
the battery until it gets high enough to short out one or more cells.

Wireheads's Rules of Thumb:         (and I'm all thumbs)

1) If it won't start after sitting, the battery's losing it's charge.
2) If it won't start after running, the belt's prolly slipping at speed.
3) At a fast idle, the battery should measure 0.5 to 1.5 volts higher 
than when the car is shut off.  If not, Altenator/regulator problem.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 17:43:15 -0300
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Toronado, 425..]

BobH592058@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Oh Mike, you must have expected me yo jump into this.  Right?  You
> instigator.

Gee, I didn't think you'd notice.    ;)
 
> IMHO the 425 is the best motor Olds made.  There is very little trade 
> of in torque and, yes. it can be reved higher.  The 425 uses a _forged_ 
> crank and with forged pistons, polished and shot peened rods, oil 
> restrictors, etc. is near bullet proof on gas and moderate NOS loads.

Back to the original post:  So, you feel, as I do, that money would be 
better spent on blueprinting/polishing/etc the 425 rather than converting 
it to a 455.  Eh?
 
> Long live the 425!

Hear! Hear!

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 17:45:19 -0300
Subject: Re: Battery Q's.

PS: and don't forget the CONNECTIONS and the GROUND STRAPS!

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: BRAD.NICHOLSON@ssa.gov
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 15:39:38 -0300
Subject: NAOC e-mail address 

     Does anyone have another address for the National Anything Other than 
     Cutlass Club.  The one sent out before returns my message to them as 
     undeliverable.  Thanks
     
      ---
     | | | Brad Nicholson
     | | | 1987 442 W-42 
     | | | President - Capitol City Rockets, OCA
     |/|\| 76062.3042@compuserve.com
     | | | brad.nicholson@ssa.gov
      --- 

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 13:42:57 -0300
Subject: Re: Battery Q's. 

>     I kept minimal electrical accessories on 
>     during the commute, but the voltmeter still seemed to read a bit low 
>     (about 13v, normally almost 14).

Interesting -- while the engine was running, the voltage is still low?
Might be revealing to do an alternator output test; perhaps the battery
is pooping out because it has to fill in for the alternator so much.

>     Is it common for batteries to just up and die like this?

I've had that happen in warm weather, when even a marginal battery will
start the engine real quick right up to the bitter end. In winter the
marginal batteries have a harder time with thick oil, etc., so the slow
cranking is more obvious. And like Mike says, if an internal short comes
up, it's history real soon afterwards.

But I'd check everything else out first before throwing money at a new
battery, especially the cable connections, and especially the inner contact
rings under the bolt heads if you still have an original side-terminal
setup. Disassemble, wire-brush, wipe with Vaseline, reassemble, jump-start
if necessary, go for a lengthy drive around, see how it starts the next
morning.

Finally, if this not-too-old battery is undersized, a smaller size than
what the manual says the car is supposed to have, it may just be worn out
from going too deep trying to crank a big engine every morning...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 15:15:10 -0300
Subject: Re: Cost of a '70 442 W30

Andrew,
The engine block, transmission, and frame should have the numbers 30m325506 to 
be numbers matching. The 325506, if you'll notice are the last 6 numbers of the 
vin tag on the dash.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: lacey@dsea.com (Dan Lacey)
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 16:24:34 -0300
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Toronado, 425..] 

>In a message dated 96-07-17 18:18:06 EDT, you write:
>
><< That '73 will definitely have a 455 stock.
>
> Yes, the 455 crank&rods will make your '67 425 (from a Toro/Starfire) into a
> 455. Keep those heads from the '67, though!
>
> -----------
> - Bob Barry
> - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
> - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)
>  >>
>
>The only modification will be to notch the 425 block for the 455 rods.  The
>425's I have used actually had the notch outlined in the cylinder bottom
>casting.
>
>Bob Handren

I have a '65 425cid (98 coupe). Does this mean someday I could make this
a 455??? Would I want to???

Why would I NOT want to do this (time and money don't count, at least in
theory! Torque vs. RPM, etc...)


*************************************************************************
* THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY  *       Dan Lacey ( lacey@dsea.com )        *
*                           *       Dainippon Screen Eng. of America    *
* LEFT BLANK                *       3700 W. Segerstrom Ave.             *
*                           *       Santa Ana, CA. 92704                *
*************************************************************************

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 15:23:29 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Norwalk report 

In a message dated 96-07-18 11:47:15 EDT, you write:

<<  Since I live up in the sticks (Washington State), I probably won't 
      make it to Norwalk any year soon.  But, I thought I might throw in an 
      idea that I saw work very sucessfully on the gnttype mailing list.  At 
      their nationals all the internet folks agreed to put a large white 
      letter "I" (for Internet) in the back window.  Cut out of a piece of 
      notebook paper, and taped in.  They said it worked really good to help 
      find each other.  Don't see why it couldn't work for us, I'd be happy 
      to put something like that in my window at any semi-large Olds event 
      that I go to.
      
      Hmm... what if we used a rocket or something rather than an I?  Or 
      maybe even get really fancy and make a mailing list logo of some sort 
      on somebodies web page that we can print out.
      
 Tom. >>


Anybody interested in doing this for the OCA Nats in Atlanta in a couple of
weeks?

Bob Handren

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 15:23:32 -0300
Subject: Re: V6 

In a message dated 96-07-18 12:02:01 EDT, you write:

<< dont know if my message got lost back in the melee of bouncing messages,
 but does anyone know of a way to get morepower out of the 4.3 V6...i am
 toying with this because of the dead 4 bolt main 350 sitting in my garage,
 and the fact that it might take me a while to get the parts
together...thanks
                         zack
  >>

Never built one.  It ain't an "original" Olds motor.  But, if it is the same
4.3 V6 in the Blazer, etc. I believe there is a turbo kit.  

Bob

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 15:23:33 -0300
Subject: Re: Battery Q's. 

In a message dated 96-07-18 12:11:19 EDT, you write:

<<  Is it common for batteries to just up and die like this? >>

Yes.

But also check dirty battery terminal conncections.  It's more than likely
the cause.

Bob Handren

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 15:23:17 -0300
Subject: Re: Cost of a '70 442 W30 

In a message dated 96-07-18 12:55:28 EDT, you write:

<< >     1970 442 W30, 4 speed, non power steering non power brakes with 70k 
 >     miles. The Vin checks out (344870M325506) and it has a numbers 
 >     matching block (396021F)
 
 Somebody explain this part, please? Numbers matching _what_? Obviously not
 the VIN. I always thought it _was_ the VIN, although I never checked it
 all that thoroughly; the owner's manual simply said something along the
 lines of "a derivative of the VIN is stamped on the engine block"... Does
 the block number match the _body_ number? In a "numbers matching" car, IOW,
 which numbers match which other numbers?
 
 Andrew C. Green         >>


The block number in the original message is the _casting_ number behind the
engine front cover/water pump.  It only shows it's a 455.  It is not a
derivative of the VIN. The derivative of the VIN number is on a pad just
under a cylinder head, I believe driver's side front. One is also on the
trans, driver side, just above the pan.

The body number is from Fisher Body and is not the VIN number.  For a '70 the
VIN number is the one near the base of the winshield on the drivers side.
 The body ID is on the fire wall in the engine compartment.

Is this explained in the FAQ?

This "numbers matching" stuff has been described by a professional appraiser
and antique car dealer of the Orlando area (Raders Relics) as the worst thing
to happen to the old car hobby, right up there with crusher programs.  IMHO
if the car is legit and correct, matching numbers should be secondary.  Read
the magazines and you'll find 100% _original_ cars did not always have
matching numbers.  Cars are assembled by humans.  Apparently this craze
started with some very high buck 'Vettes being passed off as original to
_investors_.  To me it is sad that a beautiful restoration that is completely
legitimate and correct should be worth a fraction of one with "matching
numbers".  The only consolation is that the non numbers matching cars are
more reasonable in price for the hobbyist.  Buy 'em to love and enjoy them.
 Investors nearly killed this hobby.

Bob Handren
'67 W-30 Modified
'70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

Bob Handren

------------------------------

From: Graham Stewart <graham.stewart@utoronto.ca>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 19:09:59 -0300
Subject: Re: another rear end question

On Thu, 18 Jul 1996 11:20:32 -0400  William Goodnight wrote:


> Can anyone tell me the stock gear ratio for a rear end from a 1971 Delta 88
> w/455 engine and Hydro trans?
> 
>
William:
Unfortunately, there are several possibilities:

If you have a 2 barrel 455 and do not have option J55 (heavy duty brakes: 12 inch 
drums):
    Standard diff. ratios are:
    2.56 (Code ND)
    2.73 (Code NK)
    3.08 (Code NA)

    Limited slip diff. ratios are:
    2.73 (Code QS)
    2.93 (Code QJ)

If you have a 4 barrel 455 and do not have heavy duty brakes:
    Standard ratios:
    2.73 (Code QP)
    2.93 (Code QI)

    Limited slip ratios:
    2.73 (Code QS)
    2.93 (Code QJ)

If you have heavy duty brakes (regardless of other details):
    Standard ratio:
    2.93 (Code QU)

    Limited slip ratio:
    2.93 (Code QV)

I am assuming that you don't have a wagon which has different figures.

The best way to confirm is to find the code letters, which are stamped on the "right 
rear inboard side of the axle housing tube " (Service Manual), about 3 inches to the 
right of the differential case.  There are only 1/4 inch high, so they may be hard to 
find with years of rust and grime.  

Does anyone else out there know a way to find out the differential code?

Good luck, eh....

Graham Stewart
graham.stewart@utoronto.ca

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 16:24:30 -0300
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Toronado, 425..] 

In a message dated 96-07-18 13:44:57 EDT, you write:

<< 
 Back to the original post:  So, you feel, as I do, that money would be 
 better spent on blueprinting/polishing/etc the 425 rather than converting 
 it to a 455.  Eh?
  
 > Long live the 425!
 
 Hear! Hear!
 
 The 66 Toro and Mike >>

Absolutely.  More durable for one thing.  When the '68 442 came out they were
coming back to the dealerships by the fistfull with spun rod bearings.  The
455 and long stroke 400 share the same crank/stroke.  The earlier 400/425
stroke is easier to oil.  The Mondello tricks, such as using restrictors to
force more oil down to the crank came because of the oiling problems
exacerbated by the longer stroke.

As I said, the only hassle with the 425 is availability of inexpensive
pistons.  If the bore is OK (and most Olds' I have torn down show very little
cylinder wear unless severely neglected), have 'em honed for crosshatch only,
put in new rings and bearings, and tear up some Ch*vies or 5 point slows!

I also try to avoid having a crank turned.  Machine shops will not turn the
opportunity for business away.  If you give them a crank to be checked to see
if it needs to be ground down, guess what?  It'll "need" that work after all.
I've even had a shop tell me my crank was bent and needed to be straightened
for extra $ of course.  Ask around at places like the drag strip pits for the
name of an _honest_ machine shop.  Unfortunately they seem a rare find.

Assuming no nasty events such as being dropped on the harmonic balancer, if a
engine turns freely before the engine is disassembled it should turn freely
when re-assembled.  Find someone with micrometers or _make_ the shop show you
why the crank needs to be turned - as opposed to just micro-polished.

As the BBO gets older, and especially for the forged 400/425 cranks, it will
be harder to find replacements.  I have never had to grind an Olds crank
unless a rod bearing was spun before I got the engine.  And then I demand an
.010 cut only or demand to be shown why a larger one is needed.

I don't care if your talking about a machine shop, a mechanic, a surgeon or a
lawyer (did I offend everyone equally?), always believe that they will try to
sell you their services whether you need them or not.



Bob Handren

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 19:22:30 -0300
Subject: Re: V6

Zack,

The only guy I know of that MIGHT be able to help you is Fred at R&R 
Automotive, 59 S Enola Drive, Enola, PA  17025, Phone: (717)732-5521.

Fred used to build the Chubby motors for our Super Sportsman (limited 
sprint).  I know some of the guys up at Silver Spring Raceway in 
Mechanicsburg, PA were experimenting with the V6 as a replacement for the 
small-blob.  I haven't talked to him in a couple of years but he's a real 
nice guy.  If he can't help, he prolly knows who can.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 16:42:35 -0300
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Toronado, 425..] 

In a message dated 96-07-18 15:31:37 EDT, BobH592058@aol.com writes:

>I don't care if your talking about a machine shop, a mechanic, a surgeon or
a
>lawyer (did I offend everyone equally?), always believe that they will try
to
>sell you their services whether you need them or not.
>
>
>

Bob,

You forgot Funeral Director! Of course in my case, your either dead, or gonna
be. Only two ways about it!  (:

Sparky

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 17:09:31 -0300
Subject: "Quick" Steering Box 

In a previous post I mentioned the July Car Craft as a source of information
on the subject box.

Just found my copy, it's on page 31. The box they describe can be found on
84-87 G-cars including Monte Carlo SS and Buick Grand Nationals.  It is a
constant 12:1 ratio and is said to fit 67-72 at least. (If it covers 64-72
and 84-87 reason would say it fits in between as well but I don't know that.)
 The code "YA" will be stamped on the end cover.  The picture shows it to be
an actual letter die stamp, that is, it is punched into the cover.  But from
the description the code could also have been the less than durable paint as
well.

The GM p/n for _new_ boxes is 7839897.  According to my local Olds parts
guru, these boxes list for $677 (choke, gag) and if your nice to the man can
be had for $521.29 (still choke and only slightly less gag.) The Hollander
salvage yard number is 1282.  Might be a tad cheaper that way.

To use the late box with early steering columns a coupler GM p/n 7826542
($68.25 list, $45.05 discount) is also needed.  It is from 79-84 Ch*vy
pickups.  I would suggest using a new coupler rather than a used one when
changing your steering box.

The box and coupler p/n's are still shown as good, available from GM.

Good hunting.  In the meantime the '70-'72 box is fine for me.

Bob Handren

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 15:36:47 -0300
Subject: Re: More 68 Convrt &  Paint Questions

At 04:51 PM 7/17/96 -0300, you wrote:

>Ok, now on to other things....I have a fan shroud to put on my 68.  What 
>kind of paint should I use on it?  Is the color flat black?
>
>-Dan

They weren't painted originally; just clean it up.  Unless, of course it is
trashed...then I would use a satin finish black spray.
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 20:24:09 -0300
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Toronado, 425..]

BobH592058@aol.com wrote:
> 
> a machine shop, a mechanic, a surgeon or a lawyer 
> (did I offend everyone equally?)

Hmmmm... Seems pretty equally offensive to me.      ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 15:43:16 -0300
Subject: Re: Need assist with Olds ID - Summary for '72

At 03:02 PM 7/18/96 -0300, you wrote:
Crawled under to check the exhaust and Lo 
>and behold it looks like a factory dual with a nice little cover plate
bolted on 
>to the extra hole in the RH Xman.  Was this the way all small block duals came 
>from the factory or is this some aftermarket or dealer installed thing?  

Don't know if they had different RH Xman's for dual exhaust (without that
crossover pipe opening), but the cover plates can be bought new.  Year one
has a kit to convert single X to dual X (for $269.95!) that includes that
little plate to cover the crossover pipe opening.
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 15:44:00 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Norwalk report

At 03:23 PM 7/18/96 -0300, you wrote:

>Anybody interested in doing this for the OCA Nats in Atlanta in a couple of
>weeks?
>
>Bob Handren
>
Umm...yeah, sure.  
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 02:31:56 -0300
Subject: Re: 71 442 frameable picture

RbtNeumann@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Was in a hobby shop today and saw some older posters of musclecars.  I sorted
> through them and found a really good picture of a 71 442  W30...and bought it
> thinking that someone on this list would like it.  The picture itself is
> fairly high quality on poster stock and is about 16"x20"...perfect for
> framing and hanging in the den, office, or rec room.  The car itself is gold
> with black striping and black interior...ram air hood and rear spoiler. It
> has a gray rock background...looks like they took the picture in a rock
> quarry.  If anyone wants it respond with address and $10 and I'll mail it to
> you promptly...if someone wants it framed, I could do that to your liking,
> but it would cost considerably more and mailing would be a problem.  If no
> one wants it, fine by me...I'll keep it!
> 
> -Aaron

I have the exact picture haging in my office right now. Its a great shot and the car looks great in front of the 
rocks.
- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: Shawn Twomey <stwom@ctp.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 17:37:51 -0300
Subject: Loose wheel?

In April I brought the '85 442 in for new tires.  I got the BF Goodrich
Radial T/As, 235/60 15s.  I had those for about all of a month when some
punks slashed all four in my parking garage.  I saw them but was too far
away to chase 'em down.  Probably good, because at least one had a
knife.  Anyway, I was up on the fourth level, and the wrecker couldn't
get into the garage, so I had to drive all the way down on the rims. 
Ouch.

The car went back to Tire America, and the first thing that hacked me
off was that they didn't have the tires I needed and it would've taken
about a week to get them.  Now this is a big store, and that should be a
popular tire, because everybody and their brother with a G-body uses
that size.  So, I had to settle with Dunlop GT Qualifiers or else be
without for a week.  The next thing is they don't want to talk to my
insurance company and bill them, they just want to make me pay up front
and then try and get my money back from the insurance folks.  After a
lot of arguing, they gave in.

Now, as soon as I drive out and get on the highway, I noticed they're
not balanced correctly, the car shakes at certain speeds and I just had
the front end aligned.  It took me a while to drag it back down there,
but when I did, they were like "Yeah, all four were out of whack pretty
good..."  Well, did the guy who put them on just have his head in it or
what?

As it turns out, the current mechanic REALLY has his head in it because
I get no farther than a quarter mile before a god-awful noise from the
back end causes me to pull over and notice that they had forgotten to
tighten one of the wheels down!!  One lugnut is completely gone and the
rest are almost all the way off.  Of course its like the worst
neighborhood in Lansing and its now that I find out I don't have the
handle to my jack in the trunk.  *sigh*  Borrowed someone's phone,
called the tow-truck, wait half an hour.  Tow truck guy snugs down the
remaining for lugs and points out where the studs ripped into my wheel,
causing a good bit of damage.  Useable but definitely damaged.  Nice.

Take the car back the next day, show manager, they replace the lug nut
and he tells me to buy a used wheel in similar or better condition and
they'll replace it.  I tell him that chrome SSIIIs are hard to find and
expensive, but he says do the best I can.  Does that sound right?  Now,
these wheels were only in decent shape, not great, but I WAS going to
have them rechromed.

My question is, was I treated fairly or not?  I have a big problem with
this wheel thing because even if I DO find some at a reasonable price,
nobody is going to want to break up their set so I can buy ONE.  What
happens if I have to pay some ridiculous price and Tire America doesn't
want to pay it all back?  Does anyone HAVE one '85-'87 442 wheel in good
shape they wouldn't mind shipping out?


______________________________________________
Shawn M. Twomey  |  "No!  Try not!  Do, or do
stwom@ctp.com    |   not.  There is no try."
                 |   -Yoda
______________________________________________
                                

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 16:04:25 -0300
Subject: Vanity plates

Saw a Saab 900 today (anybody sold all their Oldsmobiles and bought Saab's
yet?) with a vanity plate that read A-SNAAB.  Just what I expected.

Also saw an early 90's Cutlass with a plate reading GOOF OFF.  Heh.  Kinda
funny.

Something else interesting--I saw a six door Olds limo last week.  Not a
real old car, less that 15 years old.  Looked like a custom job.  I think it
was a Toro, not sure (wasn't a 98 or 88).  The front doors on the car were
short, like from a four door.  The doors in the middle were FRONT doors from
a two door (longer doors).  The rear doors were rears from a four door, and
had handles on the front of the door (opened backwards, suicide doors).
Looked like someone chopped a four door in half, and stuck the front part of
the passenger compartment from a two door in the middle.  Pretty cool!

And, hey, Sparky!!  There's a funeral home around here that has a 7? Olds 98
hearse parked out front.  That would be an interesting ride (in more ways
than one!) 
 
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 17:58:41 -0300
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Toronado, 425..] 

In a message dated 96-07-18 15:44:18 EDT, you write:

<< Bob,
 
 You forgot Funeral Director! Of course in my case, your either dead, or
gonna
 be. Only two ways about it!  (:
 
 Sparky
  >>

Yeah, but when I'm dead you can't overcharge _me_!  

But on the other hand neither can any of the others.  

Oh well.  Death, taxes, lawyers, funeral directors - they all get ya.

(Wimper)

Bob

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 10:56:40 -0300
Subject: Battery follow-up 

     It turned out the problems with my '84 H/O were the battery.  I 
     cleaned/replaced the battery terminals and no change.  Voltmeter 
     showed 8V at the battery terminals with the cables off.  Since it 
     started right up when jumped, I figured that the connections at the 
     starter were okay so I took it down to the friendly battery store.
     
     The guy there checked the charging system, it was okay, and then I 
     shut off the car and he tested the battery.  I could see the voltage 
     starting to drop on his meter already, but when he put a load on the 
     battery it plummeted down to 8v again.  A new battery fixed the 
     problem!  The guy at the store said it's been a busy week, the heat is 
     killing off marginal batteries.  I decided to go with the Optima 
     battery for several reasons. 
     
     It has better performance specs than other batteries, better warranty, 
     and supposedly longer life (should pay for itself eventually, I plan 
     on keeping the car a while).  I also like the maintenance free aspect 
     and I think the spiral cells and acid-gel are a great idea.  I know 
     several people who are into car audio that put severe drain on their 
     electrical systems and they swear by the Optima battery.
     
     Thanks for the tips guys!
     
     Tom.
     
     P.S. Do the Bravadas come in any color _other_than_ forest green?  I 
     see them driving around town all the time and I just occurred to me 
     that I've never seen one in any other color.  Maybe there's only one 
     of them and he just drives really really fast?

------------------------------

From: Shawn Twomey <stwom@ctp.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 18:31:01 -0300
Subject: New car

On a more upbeat note, I recently became the proud owner of an '84
Hurst/Olds.  For those of you keeping track, that brings me to

'84 Cutlass Supreme    "Gutless"
'85 442            "Waiting for the 350"
'84 Hurst/Olds     "Paid too much"

Anybody notice a theme here?  Yes, I like the G-bodies.  In any case, I
won't say how much I paid for the new one - but for being in "Sunny
Lansing," the car has 68K, stored winters, very clean interior, original
paint is still pretty but starting to show its age, Kenwood tape deck,
50 watt X 2 amp in the back, stock speakers (?), power antenna, t-tops,
NO posi (should I laugh or cry?), wheels just rechromed (NICE!!), new
tires, new exhaust, new shocks, gauges work, haven't spun up the motor
yet but the tranny shifts pretty hard.  Anyway, I'm very happy, I've
always thought '83 and '84 Hursts were the prettiest cars Olds ever
made, and I've wanted one for as long as I could drive (going on 5 years
now).

As far as their engines, that's another story, but I was thinking about
that recently.  Maybe it's only my perspective on things, being a
youngin' yet, but usually a car's originality means very little to me -
to that point I'm ripping out the 307 in the 442.  On the other hand,
I'm decidely a little more reluctant to perform such heavy-handed
surgery on a Hurst, even though I DO have another rebuildable 350 core
with 7a heads.  Should I be?  In any case, it wouldn't happen right
away, not with only 68K on it, but in a year or two....

Theoretically speaking, if someone wanted to maintain the same engine
bay appearance, they could replace the block with a 350 or 403 with good
heads, pistons, etc, leaving the intake, carb and Xst manifolds, and a
casual observer couldn't tell the difference.  However, if you're
looking to fool someone who knows what the casting IDs of your parts
should be you're looking at a much harder task.  I'm not an experienced
engine builder, but based on what I know, this is what I think could get
you past the Hurst's 180hp and 245ft-lb. of torque.

The biggest single advantage would come from new pistons.  Overbore the
block for straightness, and get some nice HC pistons to bring you
between 9.0 and 9.5:1 compression.  Next biggest benefit, I believe,
would be head work.  Mild porting, valve job.  I don't think I'd go with
bigger-than-stock valves on a job like this, don't want to sacrifice
vacuum or low-end power.  You COULD go with a spicier cam, but you'd
have to be careful if you wanted to maintain "stock sound."  Next, look
into a better rocker system.  Lots of bucks here, but roller-tip rockers
should help a good deal, no?  Rebuild and rejet the carb.  Have a custom
PROM burned for your combo.  Bolt everything back together and you have
a much-improved 307 that no engine-bay observer would discern from bone
stock.  Rough guestimate?.....maybe, if you did everything right, +40hp
with little, if any, lost driveability?  Throw in a shift kit for the
tranny and you've got yourself a bona fide muscle car (maybe).

Oh yeah, about that 7a engine....my dad bought a '62 Vette
recently...pretty nice - for a *hevy.  Anyway, while he's looking at it,
he notices an Olds motor laying in the corner, asks about it, guy tells
him its his if he hauls it, says its a small block from a '72 Cutlass. 
Now my dad, being recently educated by all of you thru me about Olds
small-blocks, realizes that this is a primo choice for the modern
small-block builder.  Has me come by to verify that it has the good
heads (and help him load the *hevy), and we haul it off.  How's THAT for
putting a Corvette to good use?

Incidentally, I picked up that motor about a week before I closed on the
Hurst.  Coincidence, or is it a Sign?

Happy motoring.  Sorry about the LFP.

______________________________________________
Shawn M. Twomey  |  "No!  Try not!  Do, or do
stwom@ctp.com    |   not.  There is no try."
                 |   -Yoda
______________________________________________
                                

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 13:33:58 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Norwalk report

Tom Lentz wrote:
> 
>      Since I live up in the sticks (Washington State), I probably won't
>      make it to Norwalk any year soon.  But, I thought I might throw in an
>      idea that I saw work very sucessfully on the gnttype mailing list.  At
>      their nationals all the internet folks agreed to put a large white
>      letter "I" (for Internet) in the back window.  Cut out of a piece of
>      notebook paper, and taped in.  They said it worked really good to help
>      find each other.  Don't see why it couldn't work for us, 
>      Hmm... what if we used a rocket or something rather than an I?  Or
>      maybe even get really fancy and make a mailing list logo of some sort
>      on somebodies web page that we can print out.
> 
> Tom.
> 
> _
> I like that.  We'd need something for our shirt too.  Who has an idea on 
a design that a moron can duplicate for the car & body?
- -- 
SLTG

------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei-2@mail.idt.net>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 18:33:43 -0300
Subject: Re: Vanity plates 

>Something else interesting--I saw a six door Olds limo last week.  Not a
>real old car, less that 15 years old.  Looked like a custom job.  I think it


I've owned a limousine service in Maryland for the past 9 years. The
limousine you are probably referring to is actually a Buick LeSabre that was
manufactured around 1988-89 there was a couchbuilder making these and we had
a local company in Washington, DC that had about 10 of them. The cars did
last as long as you would expect a limousine to last because the FWD
couldn't handle the extra stress from the additional weight. The rear doors
were in fact front doors from a 2-door as you stated. BTW I don't think the
coachbuilder ever made these out of Olds 88's (the equivalent model to the
LeSabre.)


 >Dave Isho --- davei-2@mail.idt.net
     >67 Cutlass CS Convertible
     

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 13:55:17 -0300
Subject: Re: An Olds owner once again

BobH592058@aol.com wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> For what it's worth (about $0.02), the '70 up Cutlass/442 box is a BIG
> improvement over the earlier ones.  The originals had about 7 turns lock to
> lock and with the original steam boat steering wheels those turns were huge.
>  Using a later 4-spoke and '70 steering gear made all the differenc in the
> world on the '67.  Like a new car.
> 
> It just depends how quick a steering ratio you want and how much you're
> willing to spend.
> 
> Year One has them also (apparently used but "tested")  for $269.  They're a
> last resort.
> 
> Bob Handren
> Bob:

That steering sector is available in any Chevelle, Skylark, Cutlass, 7 
Lemans from 1970 up (1972?).  It includes a variable ratio too - faster 
as you turn the wheel more.

- -- 
SLTG

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 22:25:40 -0300
Subject: Re: Loose wheel?

Shawn Twomey wrote:

> My question is, was I treated fairly or not?

I wouldn't think so.  You have the right to expect that you'll get your 
car back in a as good of a condition as when you gave it to them and you 
have the right to expect that the wortk was done properly.

I'd take it up with their corporate offices rather than the local guy.  
He's not going to want to put any more money out of his pocket than he 
absolutely has to.  You need to get to the corporate guy that can hold a 
gun to the local guy's head.  Corporate-types hate to catch sh*t for 
their dealers screw-ups.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 12:26:22 -0300
Subject: Re: "Quick" Steering Box 

     And don't forget it's on Hurst/Old's and 442's too!  And no, you can't 
     have mine.
     
     Egad, $677!?!  Maybe I oughta tie my car alarm into the steering box 
     too, huh?
     
     Something I did on my '79 to tighten up the steering was to adjust the 
     steering box.  I know this doesn't change the ratio any, but sure 
     makes the car feel tighter.  There's a crown nut on top of the box 
     with an allen screw inside.  If you've got a lot of slop, loosen the 
     crown nut and tighten the allen screw a bit, then re-tighten the crown 
     nut.  Just a tad will do ya, it's really easy to get this too tight.  
     Fortunately it's easy to re-adjust when you get it wrong the first 
     time.

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: "Quick" Steering Box
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    7/18/96 1:55 PM
     
Just found my copy, it's on page 31. The box they describe can be found on 
84-87 G-cars including Monte Carlo SS and Buick Grand Nationals.  It is a 
     
The GM p/n for _new_ boxes is 7839897.  According to my local Olds parts 
guru, these boxes list for $677 (choke, gag) and if your nice to the man can 
be had for $521.29 (still choke and only slightly less gag.) The Hollander 
salvage yard number is 1282.  Might be a tad cheaper that way.
     

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 16:02:02 -0300
Subject: Re: Another Charging System tale...

Mike Coccagna wrote:
> 
> The volt-o-meter has been reading 11.5 volts or so when the car first
> starts at idle -> 3000 RPM.  

Too low.  At 3K you should have 13.8v.

> Then, when you leave a stop sign in a normal manner, say revving the 
> car to a 5000 RPM, the volts jump up to 13.8 or 14.  

Where it should be.

> They will stay there for a while at crusing speed (65 MPH=~2200 RPM).  
> When you stop the car, it will drop to 12.5, and then decrease steadily 
> from there.  

At idle, 12.5v wouldn't be out of the ordinary but it shouldn't continue 
to drop.

> Car will begin to stall out at 11.3 volts. 

For loss of juice.

> I replaced the belt 2 years ago and it has a tensioner so it shouldn't 
> be lose.

Belt *sounds* OK.  If it was slipping, you would more than likely see a 
drop in voltage at speed not at idle.

> The battery is also new.

Doesn't mean it's good.  A week battery will drag down the volts at low 
engine speed.  While the regulator trys to keep it at 13.8, it can't 
manufacturer electrons.  If the battery is sucking more than the 
altenator can deliver at idle, you get low volts.

You didn't mention if you have difficulty starting in the morning or 
sitting for a long time. (?)  

Assuming you've checked CONNECTION, CONNECTIONS, CONNECTIONS, (which can 
easily cause your voltage jumping up and down), I have the battery 
checked.  And I'd stay on good terms with that Olds dealer just in case!

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 16:08:44 -0300
Subject: Re: Email Stuff

Mike,

Your lines were wrapped just fine with a length just under 70.

> Also look at the line length settings.  

No line length setting in Netscape's eMail.  Apparently it's determined 
by the window width.

However, I suspect that the wraps are caused by the sender rather than 
the recevier.  These doesn't appear to be provision for a soft-return in 
SMTP/POP email that I've yet discovered.  It is only 7-bit data and all 
of the character codes are accounted for by the ASCII definition.

I may get my ISP to look at the incoming data to see what that turns up.

Researching...

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 13:10:42 -0300
Subject: Re: Battery Q's. -Reply -Reply

>>>> "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com> 07/19/96 06:33am >>>
>>Moral:  Dead battery doesn't always mean bad battery...  Check
>>*everything* else first.
>
>The Trak Auto chain, for all their faults, at least tests the battery
>you bring in as a core for the new one, and if it passes the test
>machine, they'll say so. Probably fed up with arguing with customers
>whose new batteries die two days later, plus hassling with returns of
>perfectly-good ex-new batteries, etc.

Yeah, Checker checked my battery, too.  When they charged it up and
put it on the machine, it tested out fine.  Unable to let that go, I said, "naw,
wiggle that cable a bit."  The guy touched the cable and *crackle-pop*! 
Sparks and smoke everywhere.  "Judas!", he exclaimed as he frantically
shut off the machine and unhooked the cables.   My old battery was 6
years old, and the posts had been cleaned so many times that the
terminals wouldn't even clamp down on them.  It also had a little short
inside that would occaisionally act up on me.  The battery still held a good
charge, but every now and then -- all too often -- I'd have to pop the
hood and wiggle the battery cables just to get it started.  That was the
major influence that prompted me to buy a new battery.  Ha ha, that
reminds me of another good story... but I'll keep it to myself =-)

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 16:02:02 -0300
Subject: Re: Another Charging System tale...

Mike Coccagna wrote:
> 
> The volt-o-meter has been reading 11.5 volts or so when the car first
> starts at idle -> 3000 RPM.  

Too low.  At 3K you should have 13.8v.

> Then, when you leave a stop sign in a normal manner, say revving the 
> car to a 5000 RPM, the volts jump up to 13.8 or 14.  

Where it should be.

> They will stay there for a while at crusing speed (65 MPH=~2200 RPM).  
> When you stop the car, it will drop to 12.5, and then decrease steadily 
> from there.  

At idle, 12.5v wouldn't be out of the ordinary but it shouldn't continue 
to drop.

> Car will begin to stall out at 11.3 volts. 

For loss of juice.

> I replaced the belt 2 years ago and it has a tensioner so it shouldn't 
> be lose.

Belt *sounds* OK.  If it was slipping, you would more than likely see a 
drop in voltage at speed not at idle.

> The battery is also new.

Doesn't mean it's good.  A week battery will drag down the volts at low 
engine speed.  While the regulator trys to keep it at 13.8, it can't 
manufacturer electrons.  If the battery is sucking more than the 
altenator can deliver at idle, you get low volts.

You didn't mention if you have difficulty starting in the morning or 
sitting for a long time. (?)  

Assuming you've checked CONNECTION, CONNECTIONS, CONNECTIONS, (which can 
easily cause your voltage jumping up and down), I have the battery 
checked.  And I'd stay on good terms with that Olds dealer just in case!

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 16:02:02 -0300
Subject: Re: Another Charging System tale...

Mike Coccagna wrote:
> 
> The volt-o-meter has been reading 11.5 volts or so when the car first
> starts at idle -> 3000 RPM.  

Too low.  At 3K you should have 13.8v.

> Then, when you leave a stop sign in a normal manner, say revving the 
> car to a 5000 RPM, the volts jump up to 13.8 or 14.  

Where it should be.

> They will stay there for a while at crusing speed (65 MPH=~2200 RPM).  
> When you stop the car, it will drop to 12.5, and then decrease steadily 
> from there.  

At idle, 12.5v wouldn't be out of the ordinary but it shouldn't continue 
to drop.

> Car will begin to stall out at 11.3 volts. 

For loss of juice.

> I replaced the belt 2 years ago and it has a tensioner so it shouldn't 
> be lose.

Belt *sounds* OK.  If it was slipping, you would more than likely see a 
drop in voltage at speed not at idle.

> The battery is also new.

Doesn't mean it's good.  A week battery will drag down the volts at low 
engine speed.  While the regulator trys to keep it at 13.8, it can't 
manufacturer electrons.  If the battery is sucking more than the 
altenator can deliver at idle, you get low volts.

You didn't mention if you have difficulty starting in the morning or 
sitting for a long time. (?)  

Assuming you've checked CONNECTION, CONNECTIONS, CONNECTIONS, (which can 
easily cause your voltage jumping up and down), I have the battery 
checked.  And I'd stay on good terms with that Olds dealer just in case!

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #241
********************************

