
oldsmobile-digest           Monday, 15 July 1996        Volume 01 : Number 238


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Darrell T. Weinman, M.D." <bigd@wave.net>
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 09:45:40 -0300
Subject: Movie Olds

Looks like a '70 Cutlass convertible is starring in the upcoming 
"Kingpin" movie.

DTW

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 21:39:15 -0300
Subject: Re: More on my 403...(etc...) 

In a message dated 96-07-13 01:01:39 EDT, you write:

<< I made a mistake and ordered the wrong length pushrod from Mondello (Dick
 Miller was out of them and I live in PA).  So it cost $30 to next day air
 them (I was anxious...)  So guess what, no credit card credit, only store
 credit!  What bull...   >>


Your credit card company may have something to say about the situation.  If
you returned the merchandise and can prove it, contact them.  I got ripped on
some tires about three years ago and the mere mention of my contacting the
card issuer got me my money back (they got the rotten - literally -  tires
back.  I also recall a speed parts house which sent me an outright defective
part about 15 years ago. Same thing.  After threatening to call the card
issuer I was sent the good replacement without returning the defective part
until I got what I ordered.

Credit card companies are pretty concerned with fraud.  Not returning your
money is skirting the territory.  The company which won't return your money
could lose its ability to receive charge card orders.  Contact you card
issuer.  They'll telll you what they can or can't do.  Can't promise but my
two experiences should indicate something (I hope).

Bob Handren

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 21:51:14 -0300
Subject: RE: Movie Olds

I'm looking for a corny old movie called HOT ROD which has a 69 Cutlass co-star. Anyone have it?

- ----------
From: 	Darrell T. Weinman, M.D.[SMTP:bigd@wave.net]
Sent: 	Sunday, July 14, 1996 8:45 AM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Movie Olds

Looks like a '70 Cutlass convertible is starring in the upcoming 
"Kingpin" movie.

DTW

------------------------------

From: Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 23:33:05 -0300
Subject: Re: More on my 403...(etc...)

Robert Barry writes:
>I will be going with the rollers, though, for my 455, so I'm
>glad to hear your warnings.


I am in the process of looking at doing a bunch of overtime to put some 
cash into the car maintenance section of our budget. I am thinking of 
retiring the small block for a full-tilt big block. I have 
heard/read/listened that rollers offer a real horsepower bump at the 
expense of constant "tweaking".

Question: How often do rollers need to be reset?
Question: Is there a special valve cover design that makes this easier or 
do you alwys have to take the whole thing off? I have A/C, so that would 
be a real joy....

Anybody interested in the small block?

TIA,
Mike


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Michael R. Hall                                  Ortonville, Michigan
E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com                   OCA #17903
The Oldsmobile Stable:    
     1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
     1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...
         Brought to you by a Apple Power Macintosh 7100/80
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

------------------------------

From: Ken <rottin@en.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 21:59:55 -0300
Subject: Olds FAQ and Mondello

2 questions.. Where can I download the Olds faq, and anyone got the # to 
mondello so I can order a catalog?

Thanks,

Ken 
Cleveland, OH
1967 442

------------------------------

From: Dan Williams <dr_olds@kfmw.net>
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 16:34:30 -0300
Subject: Re: SLP Olds!?!

Can you image how much an SLP Aurora would cost?  The Aurora is out of a 
lot of peoples ranges already.  Guess I'll have to start saving now.  
Maybe that will base it on the 2 door Aurora race car.  Now that would 
be one helluva car.  

Anybody hear that Caroll Shelby's next car is going to be Olds powered?  
I think with an Aurora V8.

------------------------------

From: Dan Williams <dr_olds@kfmw.net>
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 17:08:47 -0300
Subject: 68 Conv 442

I went to look at a incredible 68 442 convertible.  White with a white 
top and blue interior.  All new interior and paint, rechromed bumpers, 
etc.  The car is an automatic, ps, ac, pb, buckets, console and 3.08 
posi.  That is about it for options.  The claimed mileage is 58K.  The 
car ran perfectly and felt like a new car.  Even with the 3.08, it would 
chirp the gears when shifting into 2nd.  We could talk perfectly while 
doing 70 mph.  A very nice cruiser.

The only stuff I could find wrong with the car, were that it had rusted 
underneath the windshield where the dash hits the firewall (under the 
chrome that is at the base of the windshield.  This is a common place 
for 68s to rust.  I assume to fix this would require removing the 
windshied and cutting all of that rust out.  Then a custom piece would 
have to be put back in.  Anybody have any expereince/ideas on this.  
Also, I don't think the engine is the original one.  The strangest thing 
is that somebody painted the block gold and put an non 442 exhaust 
manafold on it.  This is exactly the way I found my other 68.  What is 
it with painting 68 442 engines gold?  Was this some sort of disease or 
something? Also, both were painted with the block in the car, because 
both had overspray.  That is just too strange for me.  Anyway, I wanted 
to get the VIN off the engine and it is just impossible with an AC car.  
The alternator bracket is in the way.  I cleaned the stamping and tried 
to read it with a mirror, but it was just too hard.  I could make out 
some of the numbers, but not enough of them.  Anybody know of an easy 
way to id this block without removing the alternator bracket?  I really 
need to id this block to see if it is the original one.  I just wonder 
if the mileage is really 58K.  I would maybe belive it if the block was 
original.  Also, how does the boot for the convertible top attach?  This 
one slides on, but the chrome around that area has holes in it.  It 
looks like it used to snap on.  I thought that they used the slide 
system in 68.  Can anybody else tell me things to look for in this car?  
The lady who owns this car has 9K in receipts for it and is looking to 
get her money out of it.  I'm concered with that one area of rust and 
the fact that it probably doesn't have the #s block.  Any thougths on 
price?

Thanks,

Dan

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 22:27:47 -0300
Subject: Re: 68 Conv 442

At 05:08 PM 7/14/96 -0300, you wrote:
.  Even with the 3.08, it would 
>chirp the gears when shifting into 2nd.  

That's nothing special -- my stock 350 in my 69 will chirp the tire(s)
shifting from first to second, with a TH350 (with a shift kit) and an open
2.78 rear.
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 00:25:03 -0300
Subject: Re: 68 Conv 442

Dan,
I've gotton under cars with something liquid to remove the grease. Then I got up 
above with a mirror and flashlight to read the numbers.  If you saw some of 
them, did they fit the order that they should?
Sometimes those engines are painted gold because they are 350's and not 400's.
Your boot should slide under the pinch molding. Probably sometime in the past a 
trim shop made a new boot and put snaps on the molding.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 01:00:06 -0300
Subject: Re: 330 available... again? 

At 11:52 7.12.96 -0300, you wrote:
>Well, my email got full, and I had to eliminate 'most all back messages.
>Somebody on the list here, in PA??? was inquiring into a '66 330 engine, but
>the transpo fell thru...
>

i live just south of allentown...and there is a guy about 20 minutes away
that has a whole barn full of olds...

>Well, now, there's a guy in MD, near DC, who has a 330... Much closer drive to
>prospective purchaser.
>
>So, purchaser, if you can go that far, still interested, lemme know...
>--
>Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
>wittchri@pilot.msu.edu
>
>

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 01:15:46 -0300
Subject: Re: SLP Olds!?! 

At 21:54 7.12.96 -0300, you wrote:
>.  These are the same guys who make cars like the Firehawk and 
>>     (I think) the new C*maro SS, and the SLP Mustang.  SLP also makes some 
>>     darn good performance kits for many cars (not Olds of course.  Yet.).
>
>SLP did a fine job with the Camaro SS. One great muscle car for the dollar,
>all those aftermarket mods and still cheaper than a stock  Rustang GT. To my
>knowledge there is no SLP Rustang. Saleen and Roush Racing does their
>aftermarket stuff, Roush does a hell of a job on that car.  I read that
>about the Aurora and am excited myself. Wonder if they can make the Aurora
>V8 put out the same amount of power as the Chevy LT1? Hope so. If they do

well, if they do it to the Bravada...i would like to see what kind of power
they can get out of it...with the 4.3 and all
                        zack

>this I hope it is on a rear drive platform...wishful thinking?  
>
>>     I also heard a rumor that Olds is considering making another 
>>     Hurst/Olds sometime very soon.  Hmm...  I hope they do it right!
>
>Me too! I hope it isn't no front drive turbo four banger. Maybe on the
>Cutlass platform, make it rear drive and put in the Aurora V8 spiced up, or
>put in a new generation 455 similar to the Aurora design that gets 30mpg
>with 375-450 horses???
>
>Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com)
>1988 Camaro IROC-Z/28 5.0 bowtie power  
>1975 Hurst/Olds W-25 5.7 rocket power     
>HOCA member #0278A...in need of 75 H/O and 442 parts!
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 09:13:59 -0300
Subject: Back On The Road, Finally!

Well, yesterday I *finally* got Big Red fully roadworthy again.  Between this
past weekend and the one before I was able to call two whole days my own, a
first so far this summer :P .  I decided to just put the existing interior
panels back in, and save the job of building the new ones for the fall ("but
Fall of what year, Tim?").  The past week at work was Hell week, working
late every night and slated to work all weekend; but in fact I was able
to get out around 11AM yesterday, and finding the wife & kids had left for the
Mom-in-law's for the day, I took it upon m'self to finish Big Red's cosmetic
stuff, and change the oil.  Then a nice wash, and *then* I took her for a shake-
down cruise.  Ahhh, nothin' like a top-down drive when it's sunny and in the mid 80s :)  ...cruised up to Concord, by Walden Pond, back down through the farms
in Lincoln, and even had some fun racing some T-storm clouds back home (I won).

This is the best I've felt on a Mo(a)nday in a while!



Tim (Who can once again claim to be an Olds driver) Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'88 Cadillac Brougham, a.k.a. 'Big Blue' -- Olds 307 Powered!!
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 04:55:33 -0300
Subject: Re: 68 Conv 442

Dan Williams wrote:
> 
> I went to look at a incredible 68 442 convertible.  White with a white
> top and blue interior.  All new interior and paint, rechromed bumpers,
> etc.  The car is an automatic, ps, ac, pb, buckets, console and 3.08
> posi.  That is about it for options.  The claimed mileage is 58K.  The
> car ran perfectly and felt like a new car. 
>   Any thougths on  price?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Dan

I don't know how to ID the block W/that bracket on.  You might scrape a 
place on the block to see what the original color was.  Mine was 425 
orange W/bronze beneath.  

The windshield rust isn't the worst stuff, but a lot should come off 
(trim, windshield, dash pad, some wiring moved, etc.) before you get to 
the job.  Find out how much rust is there before you decide that this is 
the right car.  It can get out of hand.  Also look for other rust to go 
W/it as in front floor pans, cowl & doors.

The top boot came W/clips that slide on.  Replacements often are put on 
W/snaps.  Once the holes are drilled, you need to stay that way or 
replace the mouldings to use the original type.

Look for rust in all the floor pans, lower front fenders at rocker area, 
lower rear quarters, rear wheel wells, rear quarters at rocker panels, 
below rear seat, trunk, doors, hood, & deck lid.  Enough of this stuff & 
you can't fix the car no matter how pretty it is.  Front fenders, 
doors, deck lids & hoods can be replaced but why pay for a nice paint 
job when you are starting over?  Rear wheel wells spell $$$. Floors & 
trunks are expensive enough.  Expect to lose the windshield in replacing 
the dash damage.  Original ones aren't taken out easily.

This sounds like a $6 or $7K car at best & a $2K or $3K at worst.  I'm 
sorry that she spent $9K, but that happens.  Get a friend who  is 
critical & doesn't like Oldsmobiles (is there such a thing?) to look 
W/you and listen to what they find, then sleep on it.  The worst thing 
that can be done is fall in love; then months & $$$ later get a divorce. 
- -- 
SLTG

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 10:35:00 -0300
Subject: Re: 68 Conv 442 

>This sounds like a $6 or $7K car at best & a $2K or $3K at worst.  I'm 
>sorry that she spent $9K, but that happens.  Get a friend who  is 
>critical & doesn't like Oldsmobiles (is there such a thing?) to look 
>W/you and listen to what they find, then sleep on it.  The worst thing 
>that can be done is fall in love; then months & $$$ later get a divorce. 

Hear, hear. You spend 9K on a car you love, not a car you plan to sell
for 9K. It's not impossible to find someone who'd pay you 9K for it,
but it's not very likely, either, if the slightest bit of research is
going to turn up similar cars selling for much less...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Paul Bartlett <bartletp@osshe.edu>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 11:49:14 -0300
Subject: Re: blower fan

Roger,

The blower fan motor of our other car (a Cadillac -- not quite an Oldsmobile)
also went bad.  I was surprised to find that I could buy a rebuilt blower
motor at the autoparts store -- it was less than $30.  I haven't had a
problem with it since.

So you might be able to find a rebuilt blower motor through your autoparts
store.

Thanks, Paul
> 
> The blower fan on my '72 cutlass wagon has stopped functioning.  I have 
> checked the fuses and they were all good.  Can anybody point me in a direction
> on where I can find the blower motor and trace the wires to see if there
> is a break in the circuit?  Or how to fix the old blower?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Roger M. Borlase
> http://www.microdata.com/rborlase
> http://www.microdata.com/rborlase/borlase.htm
> 
> 


- -- 
Paul Bartlett
Internal Audit Division
Oregon State System of Higher Education
PO Box 488, Corvallis OR 97339-0488

Phone (503) 737-0510
E-mail bartletp@osshe.edu

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 10:56:26 -0300
Subject: Re: blower fan 

[Reposting due to system barf -- sorry if this is a duplicate but I'm
_fairly_ sure this never made it out the door yesterday]

>The blower fan on my '72 cutlass wagon has stopped functioning.  I have 
>checked the fuses and they were all good.  Can anybody point me in a direction
>on where I can find the blower motor and trace the wires to see if there
>is a break in the circuit?  Or how to fix the old blower?

As others have said, it's slightly covered by the right-side fender and
is kind of behind the inner wheel well on the passenger's side. I have
not replaced a Cutlass blower, but in fixing a LeMans blower of that
year, I was able to do it without removing the hood, fender or tire by
unbolting from the bottom edge and wedging the fender and wheel well out
of the way with a couple pieces of wood.

Before ripping everything apart, though, follow the wiring and check the
connectors -- when a blower motor dies, it usually gives you plenty of
howling, squealing warnings. With a bad connector, it will abruptly quit,
which sounds more likely given the way you described your problem.

With the ignition on but the engine not running, and the ventilation
selector in any position other than OFF (select HEAT or VENT for now),
move the dash fan switch in and out of the HIGH speed position. If you 
can hear the high speed relay mounted on the firewall clicking, your 
dash switch is probably okay.

Leave the ignition on and the fan switch on a fairly high speed so you 
can wiggle wires under the hood until the blower comes to life to 
pinpoint the bad connection. If you can reach the blower itself, find
the two large wires plugged onto it, a purple wire and the black ground
wire. The purple one probably has a rubber boot over its spade connection;
the ground wire is probably a spade lug with a black plastic connector and
a squeeze hook lock holding it on. Work them both to see if they're solid.

Also find the resistor pack nearby; this will be a three or four wire
connector plugged onto a little panel screwed into the underhood heater
case. The connector is _really_ tight and may need a screwdriver to budge,
but check that it's not rotted. Unscrewing the panel will reveal two or
three resistor coils on the inside (in the airstream for cooling); check
that they are intact. These function to run the motor at the different
speeds (aside from HIGH).

Getting a test probe and checking for voltage in the wires might help,
too; check that the ground is good, then test the purple wire supplying
the blower, and work backwards until you find the problem. Good luck...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 06:23:28 -0300
Subject: Re: Temp sensor 

     I wish I could help, but I think your best bet might be to look at a 
     manual.  I know there are holes on either side of the thermostat 
     housing that will work for temp. senders, so I took a look at my '84 
     H/O and noticed that the pass. side one contained a thermal vacuum 
     switch of some sort.  The driver side one contained a sensor with two 
     wires on it.  I have full gauges already so this is probably my 
     sending unit, which is probably in the same place as yours.  I noticed 
     that both wires going to the top of that were green.  On my '79 the 
     idiot light temp sender used a green wire, so I'm wondering if those 
     two wires are one and the same, just branching off to two locations 
     (like the light and the computer).  Have you tried tracing the wires?  
     I didn't take the wires off to look because I'm at work and I don't 
     wanna get all greasy.  Besides, the engine is still hot.
     
     You're correct about the oil pressure sender.  You can install an oil 
     pressure gauge there by putting in a 'T' fitting if you want.
     
     Good Luck!
     
     Tom L.

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Temp sensor
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
      
I am still unable to locate a single-wire Temp sending unit on my '86 
Olds 307 motor. Does ANYONE know the location of this sending unit?

The Single-wire sender, looks like the oil pressure, suspicions 
confirmed by list member. It is located in the block, directly behind 
the water pump. 
     
Two (2) two-wire sensors, I am under the impression that these are 
computer sensors, and shouldn't be disturbed. They are located about 1" 
behind the oil sending unit, in the very ffront of the intake manifold.
     

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 12:10:12 -0300
Subject: Re: Temp sensor 

[...another repost from yesterday...]
>I am still unable to locate a single-wire Temp sending unit on my '86 
>Olds 307 motor. Does ANYONE know the location of this sending unit? The 
>one I am looking for is a single-wire idiot light sender.

Try a different approach. Chilton has a manual called a Component Locator
Manual or something like that which gives the location of things like the
coolant warning switch. Among other places, Super Trak stores have a copy
of this which you can browse and photocopy in the store. Next time I'm at
our local store I'll check it out for you.

Needless to say, if somebody here has an Olds service manual, it'll be
shown in there, too.

BTW, if you can determine the color coding of the wire to the warning light
behind the dash, I'm pretty certain it will be the same color coding under
the hood where it plugs onto the sending unit switch. This isn't true for
_every_ circuit, but this is a pretty simple one.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: <tc75918@hpr169.mdhc.mdc.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 13:16:05 -0300
Subject: Re: brakes, misc. stuff

> Would someone please be so kind as to explain stall speed when referring to 
> torque convertors?  Is there a way to determine what the "best" stall speed is?
> 
>           OK, why do you care?  Well, the torque converter actually 
>           provides significant multiplication under these conditions, 
>           on the order of 2.5:1 for a typical TH400.  This helps 

I know this is true, but how does it multiply the power to the wheels?  Is
it just the momentum of the spinning converter?  Faster is spins before
engaging, the more umph! it gives off the line?


>           significantly with off-the-line acceleration.  Increasing 
>           the stall speed increases the multiplication (to a point) 
>           and also puts the engine up into the power band for the 
>           launch.  Unfortunately, higher stall speed is directly 
>           related to greater slippage (and higher engine rpm, and 
>           higher trans temp, and lower fuel economy) at high speeds.  
>           For a fixed stall speed converter (and almost all are), this 
>           is a compromise which is set by the angle of the internal 
>           vanes.  1800-2500 rpm is a typical stall speed for most 
>           street-driven cars, while drag cars can run 3500-5000 rpm 
>           stall converters.  Note that the switch-pitch converter 
>           mentioned previously in this space is a nice compromise by 
>           allowing one to select 1800 or 3500(?) rpm from a 
>           dashboard-mounted switch, depending on one's needs.
>           

Say you have a 2000 rpm converter.  Let me see if I have the makeup of
a converter correct.  I think it's actually two pieces, one around the 
other, filled with fluid in between and the pieces are covered with vanes.
The piece attached to the engine has to spin up to 2000 rpm before the
vanes on it are exerting enough force on the fluid to in turn cause the
fluid to act on the vanes of the other piece of the converter and cause it
to start spinning?  And this is what's meant by 'slipping'.  The engine-
driven piece of the converter is spinning 2000 rpm faster than the other
piece attached to the transmission.  Is this correct?

So, assuming this is right, does this mean that it's *always* slipping
2000 rpm?  Like when you're cruising down the road, are the converter
halves always spinning 2000 rpm apart or does that go down a certain
percentage like 10%, 30%, 50% or whatever.  

My guess is then that a 'lock-up' type converter will physically lock
the two pieces of the converter together after a certain speed or rpm
is reached that will eliminate this slipping and give better effeciency.
So what's the down side of a lock-up converter?  I see ads and hear 
people talking about getting rid of the lock-up for a non-lockup type.
Seems like the lockup type would give the best of both worlds, high
stall speeds for good launch, without the penalties of high temps and
lower fuel economy once you're going and the converter locks up.

Also, can the switch-pitch converter be controlled automatically?  Like
have it in high-stall mode off the line / slow speed / low rpm, then
automatically switch to low-stall to reduce slipping once the speed / 
rpm rises to a certain point.


- --Dan (I'll figure these things out yet.)

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 13:33:03 -0300
Subject: manual...

> Till we meet again, may your Rocket flames never go out!
> Wes Fujii
> ________________________________________________________________
>       ___   ___ ___
>      /  /  /  //  /
>     /  /__/  //  /    A real motor is an Oldsmobile Rocket 455
>    /  HURST //  /     "This is NOT the new generation of Olds"
>   /  /  /  //  /_______
>  /__/  /__//  //  ___  \
>           /  //  /   \  \       Wes "BANZAI" Fujii
>          /  //  /OLDS/  /          Boise, Idaho
>         /  / \  \___/  /      wesf@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com
>        /__/   \_______/
>
> ------------------------------

Adios, and excellent sig file! Nice to see them... occasionally. After deleting
the 35th copy-of-a-copy-of-a-copy, though, it does get old...

> Proportioning valve is what I'll check next, I guess.  The booster was good
> when I put it on; I checked it to make sure.  Vacuum supply is good, too.
> The only thing I haven't replaced are the front wheel cylinders,
> proportioning valve, and brake lines.  Can a proportioning valve be bought
> new, or do I have to get a used one?
> Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme

You MIGHT be able to dismantle the prop valve & clean it out, reassemble. I
dunno, seems if it was that, your red ligjht would be on- it does work, right?
I lean toward the booster yet- 2 rules of repair come to mind:
- -
"just because it's NEW doesn't mean it WORKS correctly", and
"always look at the last thing 'fixed' for the cause of new trouble"
- -
I'm suspecting wrong length or missing or out of place rod either between pedal
& booster or booster & MCyl.  -Chris-

> the owner to commit to selling it to me.  Might have to put a contract out on
> him to get his attention.  You'd be surprised how cooperative a person gets if
> his knees are going to get nailed to the floor.
> Art Fuller

Hmmm... interesting approach to the problem of separating cars & owners. The
New Jersey Incentive Plan.

> > If anybody has received my spec's on installing factory gauges in a 78-87
> > Cutlass, please drop me a line to let me know it you got them and what you

Got 'em, thanks! I think it's great, kinda professionally-done, not sure I can
deal with that level of quality... -Chris-

> I got a laugh from page 50 just above the "Carburetion" section. The last
> sentence reads, "These points are good to 7000 plus/minus rpm without
> floating."
> A Olds engine at negative 7000 rpm would be fun to see... ;-)
> Michael R. Hall                                  Ortonville, Michigan

Well, that one I can live with, that just clearly means 7000 R's, give or take
a little. It's them factual errors and the muddling due to poor organization &
editing that really drag it down... esp. since I actually pointed out the
errors in the cam bank angle chart to him by letter some time ago. You'd think
he might have included stock piston dish sizes, too. He *has* the technology...
The whole first 15 pages or so, the "Q/A" section smacks a LOT of a long sales
pitch. Half fact, half sales pitch. "Joe, my timing chain wore out?" "Buy my
spacer kit..." kinda thing. -Chris-

- --intake--
> Tim, thanks for the reply. Do you recall what kind of sealer you used?

I use the stuff supplied with the gasket, or, lacking that, silicone on the
coolant passages & Permatex Aviation Goo on the ports. End rails get either a
big bead o' silicone or cork with P.A.G., no rubber strips- they tend to get
squeezed out. -Chris-

> >Both Mondello and Dick Miller are hard to work with.   Sometimes they are OK,
> >but usually difficult (nothing new...)
>
> It often comes through that they are trying to sell you something, so I come
> here with my questions.

Well, after all, they are in the business of selling Olds HP components...

> >As for Joe's tech book:  I like the book, but were the hell does it reference
> >7a (small cap  A) heads???  It seems to me like WE talk about those quite a
> >bit and Joe himself filled me in about the induction hardened seats.  So were
> >is the small cap A in his chart????
> >So much for 5 years and 5000 man hours of work Joe...

Agreed, very little mention for such a critical part for the SB crowd. Another
thing I don't like is that he will list this & that, like forged cranks [NO
PHOTO!, and crude drawings have notch oriented randomly... sheesh] but then he
does not tell you WHERE you might expect to find such a thing.
  Actually, the heads chart DOES list 7a heads, he just left the "A" off- it's
the 1972 #7 head. Big Faux Pas, IMHO. -Chris-

> Maybe JM doesn't know everything about Olds motors after all

Well, ya know, who *does*? This claim of his that 67 330 blocks have 39 degree
cam bank angles has me investigating... His info on the whole pre-68 lot of
engines is in total confusion, the #3 block listed twice, as being for "64-67"
cars... I seriously doubt that the #3 block was produced as early as 1964, or
even before 1966. -Chris-

> Question: "Dear Dr. Olds, I have a 455 Oldsmobile engine with 11:1 TRW
> pistons, "C" casting heads and Fel-Pro Permatorque head gaskets. Dr., is
> this possible?"
>
> Joe: "No, it's not possible. This is so far from being accurate that it's
> really not funny."
> - -----
> The above interchange is so far from being good writing or editing that it's
> really not comprehensible.

Well, it's BAD, but not that bad... his point is not that impossible parts
exist ['65 Toro engine notwithstanding...] but that mfgrs make ridiculous
claims about the CR of the pistons they offer, and clueless teenagers [sorry,
not to stereotype teenagers!], uh clueless FOLKS read that, believe it, and go
around bragging about their "11:1" motor that sports a true CR of more like
9.75:1. -Chris-
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 13:53:25 -0300
Subject: engine, nother parts? car

Hmmm... have almost bought another engine, this one's a running '76 Toronado
455, with..... #8 heads! Runs great, still in the car, a Buick
Delta-equivalent with new exhaust, about 1982 or so... crashed in the front. SB
heads on a Toro 455, go figure.

Picked up a "parts" car yesterday, Heh. I kept looking for *usable* parts, but,
not much there. '66 Cutlass, abandoned at a gravel pit when it was maybe 12
years old... **Post Coupe** not many of those around. One less, now, in
fact! 330-2V, Jetaway. Shot several hundred times. Roof bashed in, every
body panel ruined. Anything that can break was broken- glass, dash, lights. Carb
 gone, as well as one rear axle. Oh, chock full of hornets & mud daubers, too.
No chance of the fnont wheels turning. We pick up the back end to put the
chains on.. no frame, diff & trunk floor stay on the ground. Frame is literally
rusted away. Hornets getting a little worried about their homes...
  Get chains on the front of the car, to the back, to the wrecker, yank it out
of the ground, drag it kicking & screaming up to the driveway... remove front
wheels, replace with ones that hold air, glad the torch came along! Not too
many hornets know where we are, now...  We drag it on out the driveway, still
not rotating the wheels. Down the dirt road... hoping that the wheels would
break free.
  Nope. A mile later, the tires are now history, and we've ground halfway thru
the rims, still haven't turned a bit. Decide to stop & see what can be done,
maybe just yank engine/trans & leave the hulk...
  remove the "wheels", torch the front brake drum apart, yep, the hub itself
still turns, leave the drum/shoes/rust ass'y in place... go to other side.
Remove wheel, cut brake drum.... Damn! torch runs out of O2 after 3-4" of
cutting... OK, get prybars, chisel, BFH, chisel the brake drum apart-
surprisingly easy. Still won't come off or turn... though all seems loose.
Remove nut, take hub off with remains-of-shoes-n-drum, extract hub, replace it.
Put another set of tires on it... Sheesh, 2 hours later, we can finally tow.
   What a sight. Rustiest one he's ever done except maybe that Firebird says
the brother...
  So, all that effor, for *what* exactly?! Well, the driveshaft is serviceable.
330 with #3 heads, the forged crank might be extractable. Flexplate.
Switch-pitch tork converter. One axle. Steering linkage maybe. "Dot" ID water
pump, for show-n-tell I guess. Front hubs still good. Trans crossover. There is
actually one kick panel, in lovely aqua, in pretty nice shape yet. Wiring
harness maybe.
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 19:22:36 -0300
Subject: Re: I forget

Chris Brown Witt wrote:
 
> I always liked the way the other tracks would be heard in the 
> background!

I always enjoyed the KA-CLUNK right in the middle of a song when it 
switched tracks!  "Inna godda da KA-CLUNK"

> Thus silence, no point in piping in with "I know nothing!", eh?                             (mucho snip)
> Do not take silence as a cold shoulder, it might be plain lack of 
> helpful info.

Yup.

> Oh, yeah, that. Um, I presume you mean that little 6" pc of bumper that
> constitutes the far end. looks like a ship's hull. Well, it's mildly 
> dented, and very slightly rusted. 

That'll be fine.  Small dents and rust can be fixed.  Anything beats the 
pancake that now resides on the right-front of the car.  Whatcha want fur 
it?


The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 13:05:31 -0300
Subject: Re: engine, nother parts? car 

>Picked up a "parts" car yesterday, Heh. [...] Carb
> gone, as well as one rear axle. Oh, chock full of hornets & mud 
>daubers, too. No chance of the front wheels turning. We pick up 
>the back end to put the chains on.. no frame, diff & trunk floor 
>stay on the ground. Frame is literally rusted away. 
[...almost ludicrously-determined tale deleted...]
>  So, all that effort, for *what* exactly?! Well, the driveshaft 
>is serviceable.

I have come to the conclusion that if we ever want the Titanic
raised, we simply tell Chris Witt that it's got a really good
driveshaft on it.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 14:38:15 -0300
Subject: Re: engine, nother parts? car

Chris,
Hats off to a true blue hobbiest. I've brought home a lot of cars but would have 
quit far short of where you ended up. You must just love a challenge.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 20:13:08 -0300
Subject: Re: engine, nother parts? car

Andrew C. Green wrote:
> 
> I have come to the conclusion that if we ever want the Titanic
> raised, we simply tell Chris Witt that it's got a really good
> driveshaft on it.

I believe the Titanic did have a forged crank!    ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: SG Hartfelder <shartfel@planet.eol.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 15:33:47 -0300
Subject: Notification

Please be aware that I was having problems with my 
e-mail last week.  I was subscribing to a news 
group that went into some error condition where 
messages were being bounced around.  I had over 700 
messages send to me with this problem.  My server 
administrator therefore needed to delete them ALL.

So, if you have send me a message during the past 
week and are awaiting a reply, please se-send it.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Thank-you.

Stan Hartfelder
shartfel@planet.eon.net

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 16:28:31 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds FAQ and Mondello 

Ken,
I can send you a margined (column ~72) FAQ or you can obtain an unmargined 
version from www.web.cps.msu.edu/~twomeysh/.  Check www.442.com under Parts 
Sources (I beleive) for Mondello's number.

David Brown           OCA #27978          (312) 702-9157
     Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
                  or see: www.web.cps.msu.edu/~twomeysh/

- -------------
2 questions.. Where can I download the Olds faq, and anyone got the # to 
mondello so I can order a catalog?

Thanks,

Ken 
Cleveland, OH
1967 442

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 15:39:37 -0300
Subject: Clutch Fan

Yesterday when we were working on the Olds, Donnie (my mechanic and 
fellow Olds lugnut) sez as we're wrapping up: "Hey, you want a clutch 
fan? $20, I just picked it up. Put it on for you if you want." Deal, I 
say, so he goes out back and returns with a 5-blade CHROME fan! I knew 
this wasn't right for a '68, but he said that it cam eoff an Olds and 
that it should work fine. It was certainly nice and clean and the clutch 
spun freely. 

He installed the studs after removing the old fan and spacer, only to 
discover that the clutch fan blades would foul on the power steering pump 
pulley, so he had to take it off. The thing must have been designed for a 
different type of water pump. A shame, because it looked great. Had what 
we believed to be a date code of "05 23 65". 

So if anyone has a proper clutch fan setup for a '68 350 (6-blade fan with 
working clutch) let me know, I might be interested.

BTW, this was part of the work associated with the 4-bbl conversion, 
which finally is working pretty well; details soon.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 15:43:06 -0300
Subject: Re: Notification

On Mon, 15 Jul 1996, SG Hartfelder wrote:
> Please be aware that I was having problems with my 
> e-mail last week.  I was subscribing to a news 
> group that went into some error condition where 
> messages were being bounced around.  I had over 700 
> messages send to me with this problem.  My server 
> administrator therefore needed to delete them ALL.

Stan, you're not by chance talking about *this* group <ahem>, are you? The 
symptoms sound an awful lot like the ones we had here last week. Hope it 
wasn't us that caused your woes. Glad to have you back!

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 14:37:52 -0300
Subject: Fun with the Torque Wrench 

['nother repost from yesterday afternoon...]

Had fine weather yesterday afternoon; decided to get Car #1 up on
jackstands to check the wheels. Tire rotation is overdue and the left
front brake is making a rumpity-rumpity vibration from a rotor that
seems to warping. Dealer said at purchase time that they'd put new
front brakes on already but couldn't cut the rotors since they'd be
down below minimum thickness and warp. Guess they weren't too wrong.
Figure on re-torquing lug nuts to see if I can stave off the inevitable
for a little while.

Just for yucks, decided to try using torque wrench to crack lugs loose
to see if I can get a ballpark estimate of what they were torqued to
previously. Discover that lugs are 19mm. Socket set only goes up to 17.
Blast! Trudge down alley to neighbor's house and borrow a socket. Stop
to admire '56 Ch*vy Bel Air convertible in neighbor's garage. Sigh...

Pop socket on torque wrench, slip over first lug nut, lean on it and--
discover to my horror that lug is only finger-tight. Try next lug...
they're all like that! Those idiots at the dealership! Those morons!
Those absolute-- Whoops. Turns out the black lug is a plastic screw-on
cap over the _real_ lug nut. Okay, never mind...

Crank setting on wrench up 10 lbs. at a time until each nut loosens 
without popping wrench; final results are 80/100/90/90/100. Hmmm.
Don't know if that's significant or not...

Tire rotation goes uneventfully. For accurate torquing, decide to put
one (1) drop of 3-in-1 Oil on each stud and on taper of each lug nut,
since they're already looking a little oxidized. Torque each wheel to
100 ft./lbs. as specified in factory manual by tightening in star
pattern to 80, then 90, then 100. Just finishing the last wheel at a
90 ft./lb. setting when... a stud shears off. A _three_year_old_ stud.
Damn. Inspecting the stud shows a semi-circle of rough break and the
other semi-circle a smooth break. Metal flaw? Fatigue? This has never
happened to me before, although I never bothered to accurately torque
lug nuts before, either. Anyone else?

So for now I backed the other four nuts down to 80 until I can get a
new lug put in. And driving in to the office just now (~35 miles on
the expressway), I'd swear the warpy rotor feels much better now. Let's
see if it gets bad again in the near future...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: SG Hartfelder <shartfel@planet.eol.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 16:06:21 -0300
Subject: Re: Notification

Actually Greg, it was the olds newsgroup causing me 
the grief.  I had to send out my notification 
message to all of my business contacts as well.

Everything is working fine now.  Happy to be back.

Stan Hartfelder
shartfel@planet.eon.net

------------------------------

From: SG Hartfelder <shartfel@planet.eol.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 16:12:28 -0300
Subject: Olds Show

I just returned from a week in New Brunswick 
(business) and a second week in Victoria (holiday).

I mentioned a couple of months ago that there was 
an ALL OLDS show happening on July 20th in a place 
called Olds, Alberta.

I'm entering the '38 into the show to be judged and 
I'll let you know how it did next week.

Anybody on this news group going?

If you have questions, please e-mail me and I'll 
see if I can help you out.

Stan Hartfelder
shartfel@planet.eon.net

------------------------------

From: lacey@dsea.com (Dan Lacey)
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 17:35:26 -0300
Subject: Re: Fun with the Torque Wrench 

[SNIP]

>Damn. Inspecting the stud shows a semi-circle of rough break and the
>other semi-circle a smooth break. Metal flaw? Fatigue? This has never
>happened to me before, although I never bothered to accurately torque
>lug nuts before, either. Anyone else?
>

[SNIP]

Torqued my Tercel to, I think, 70-75 lbs. as per manual. Found out that is
less than I usually tighten without a torque wrench.

Now this is all pretty meaningless, unless you are are lubricating the
parts as per the manual. I use a dab of grease instead of WD-40... My
manual doesn't specify, so I may be over torquing...

Ft. Lbs.  is a rough estimate of what you REALLY want; bolt/stud stretch. A
bolt is "supposed" to be tight enough to stretch a specified amount. Now,
if you lubricate a part, then torque it, you will find that the bolt
stretched more than if it was not lubricated. You have effectively
over-tightened the bolt.

Actually... bolt stretch is another way of specifying pounds per square
inch of tension on the bolt. These OTOH are directly interchangable and
depend on the application and materials used.

This is all great in theory.....;-)

I wouldn't think that a bolt would fail that easily regardless of
lubrication or overtightening in your application.


*************************************************************************
* THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY  *       Dan Lacey ( lacey@dsea.com )        *
*                           *       Dainippon Screen Eng. of America    *
* LEFT BLANK                *       3700 W. Segerstrom Ave.             *
*                           *       Santa Ana, CA. 92704                *
*************************************************************************

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 17:05:02 -0300
Subject: Re: brakes, misc. stuff 

In a message dated 96-07-15 12:29:04 EDT, you write:

<< Also, can the switch-pitch converter be controlled automatically?  Like
 have it in high-stall mode off the line / slow speed / low rpm, then
 automatically switch to low-stall to reduce slipping once the speed / 
 rpm rises to a certain point.
 
 
 --Dan (I'll figure these things out yet.) >>

Dan:

Originally, switch pitch converters (available on TH400's '65-'67) were
controlled by an electric switch in the throttle linkage.  On idle the pitch
was loose to prevent creep; little old ladies didn't need to stand on the
brake as hard.  Just off idle it switched to the tighter angle.  Full
throttle it would switch to the loose setting for max acceleration. I control
my switch pitch TH400 from a toggle switch on my console near the shifter.

No, the converter rpm is not fixed versus how much "slippage" there is.  If
you go to the drag strip, listen to the engine sounds of a drag car equipped
with one of the modified 2-speed Powerglides.  It sounds like the engine
speed changes very little (it does) while the transmission output speed is
obviously increasing.  These transmission/converter combinations are designed
to keep the engine speed in the max torque range.  The faster the engine
goes, the less the slippage.  Why?  Don't know for sure but I wouldn't be
surprised if centrifugal forces are at play. It's harder to push the fluid
around when it is trying to fly out of the converter.  (It is somewhat
amusing to me that a transmission that was considered the lamest thing on the
street in the 60's-70's is now the most common one on the strip.)

About the "torque multiplication", I don't know the technical explanation for
that either but it would seem to me that when the engine revs increase from
idle it takes time for the vanes on the driven member to receive or accept
the energy made by the engine.  This energy has to go somewhere, so the
longer it takes the greater the stored energy and therefore, the
"multiplication" factor.  

In any case, whatever energy goes in must go somewhere.  It doesn't
disappear.  It either is eventually sent through the drive train or changed
into heat.  In fact, high stall (loose) converters do produce, in some cases,
a lot of heat.  Full drag race converters are lousy street converters.  In a
short drag race there is little time for the heat to build up.  On the street
there is lots of time. A high stall converter installation on a street car
usually requires an auxilliary trans cooler as well for it to last.

I disagree a little about the best way to check the stall speed of a
converter.  Standing on the brake and slowly increasing the throttle doesn't
match what happens when the car is driven. Rather the throttle should be
mashed quickly and then released.  This is called "flashing" the converter.
 On my switch pitch '67 TH400 the "flash" rpm is hundreds above the other.  I
get ~2800 rpm max while flashing and it is hard to get the engine above ~2500
just standing on it.  When you tromp the throttle for max acceleration it
isn't usually done lightly.  The stall speed is actually the point at which
the engine driven vanes will go no faster without releasing the trans vanes.

>From what I have read, there are problems with removing the lock-up action of
a converter designed to be one.  The "experts" in the car mags say such a
trans or converter won't last long that way.  This is different from
_controlling_ when lock up takes place.  Those kits allow, for instance,
delaying when lock up occurs.  

Bob Handren
'67 W-30 Modified
'70 SX Covnertible
Oviedo, FL

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 16:07:48 -0300
Subject: Re: Fun with the Torque Wrench 

>Ft. Lbs.  is a rough estimate of what you REALLY want; bolt/stud stretch. A
>bolt is "supposed" to be tight enough to stretch a specified amount. Now,
>if you lubricate a part, then torque it, you will find that the bolt
>stretched more than if it was not lubricated. You have effectively
>over-tightened the bolt.

Okay, I probably could have come to the point a bit better, 'cause this 
is what I was thinking, too: could the lubricant have basically allowed
me to stretch the bolt a lot harder than expected with the same amount
of torque? I guess the answer is yes, but I can't see how anyone could
accurately torque a _dry_ lug unless they went nuts with a wire brush,
compressed air, etc. beforehand. As I said, these things were starting to 
look a bit oxidized already, but I didn't think the thin film of oil would
affect the readings _that_ much when we're leaning in at 100 ft./lbs. I 
mean, taking into account the pitch of the threads, etc., it seems like
that's a lot more pressure than any oil film is going to resist.

The manual does not address whether or not to put any oil on the threads
first, but I was under the impression that usually when you're trying to
accurately torque something, you were supposed to _lightly_ lubricate it
during assembly. Chris? Anybody else assembling engines? Yes or no?

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 17:09:13 -0300
Subject: RE: More on my 403...(etc...)

Atta boy Mike always like to see someone get into big blocks. The new =
hydraulic rollers are great for installing and forgetting they seem to =
hold their valve lash much longer than the mechanical ones. The lift =
probably has a lot to do with that though because the hydraulic rollers =
are a generally small compared to the mechanical monsters out there.

- ----------
From: 	Mike Hall[SMTP:mikehal1@ix.netcom.com]
Sent: 	Sunday, July 14, 1996 10:33 PM
To: 	Olds E-Mail News
Subject: 	Re: More on my 403...(etc...)

Robert Barry writes:
>I will be going with the rollers, though, for my 455, so I'm
>glad to hear your warnings.


I am in the process of looking at doing a bunch of overtime to put some=20
cash into the car maintenance section of our budget. I am thinking of=20
retiring the small block for a full-tilt big block. I have=20
heard/read/listened that rollers offer a real horsepower bump at the=20
expense of constant "tweaking".

Question: How often do rollers need to be reset?
Question: Is there a special valve cover design that makes this easier =
or=20
do you alwys have to take the whole thing off? I have A/C, so that would =

be a real joy....

Anybody interested in the small block?

TIA,
Mike


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Michael R. Hall                                  Ortonville, Michigan
E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com                   OCA #17903
The Oldsmobile Stable:   =20
     1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
     1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...
         Brought to you by a Apple Power Macintosh 7100/80
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 12:31:57 -0300
Subject: Re: engine, nother parts? car

mefco@sprynet.com wrote:
> 
> Chris,
>You are such a great help.  I showed this message to my girlfriend & now I don't look to be such a pack rat as she thought.  Because of you 
my image has moved up a notch from the bottom.  Thanks, only you could 
do it.

- -- 
SLTG

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 12:34:17 -0300
Subject: Re: engine, nother parts? car

Mike Frederick wrote:
> 
> Andrew C. Green wrote:
> >
> > I have come to the conclusion that if we ever want the Titanic
> > raised, we simply tell Chris Witt that it's got a really good
> > driveshaft on it.
> 
> I believe the Titanic did have a forged crank!    ;)
> 
> The 66 Toro and Mike
> 
>> I want my girl friend to see this message too.  Beauty is in the eye of 
the beholder!
- -- 
SLTG

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 12:46:02 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds Show

SG Hartfelder wrote:
> 
> I
> 
> I'm entering the '38 into the show to be judged and
> I'll let you know how it did next week.
> 
>
> Stan Hartfelder
> shartfel@planet.eon.net

Stan:

I don't know how common they are, but I just saw a 6-wheel 1937 Olds at 
a local show.  It was a nice straight 8 w/beautiful headlights squared 
off to flat fins at rear & framed in chrome.  The taillights resembled 
the headlights as they joined the body sides much like a 1937 Chevy.  
The fender mounted spares had speed marks in chrome on them where the 
owner put a modern Olds emblem & rocket eight letters between the speed 
marks.  I didn't get a picture because he kept all of the doors open 
(suicide at rear) & the cars were too close together.  This is the first 
one I have ever seen.
- -- 
SLTG

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 18:56:16 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds FAQ and Mondello -Reply

>David Brown           OCA #27978          (312) 702-9157
>     Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
>Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
>                  or see: www.web.cps.msu.edu/~twomeysh/

Actually, the address (i figured out after trying the above) is:

   www.cps.msu.edu/~twomeysh/

Just thought I'd save someone else a headache...

- -BS

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 19:11:45 -0300
Subject: Re: Fun with the Torque Wrench -Reply

[SNIP]

>Damn. Inspecting the stud shows a semi-circle of rough break and the
>other semi-circle a smooth break. Metal flaw? Fatigue? This has never
>happened to me before, although I never bothered to accurately torque
>lug nuts before, either. Anyone else?
>

[SNIP]

Hee hee!  Better to have a stud fail than your lug wrench!  (This story,
again, is a little off subject... but it's so fun that I just have to tell it.  I'll
make it short, I promise!)  I was visiting an old mining ghost town on the
Utah-Nevada border.  It was 50 miles from anything on a rough dirt road. 
Drove out there in my '84 ex-Renault Alliance with no food or water.  Lo
and behold, I run over a 100 year-old nail that just happened to be in the
middle of the road.  Well, I broke out the cheap p.o.s. scissor jack and the
lug wrench.  Well, the lugs were on so tight, that I twisted the pot-metal
lug wrench in two trying to get them off.  Man was I in a world of sh@#! 
I had to drive 50 miles down an old dirt road on the rim (by the time we
got 20 miles down the road, the tire was nothin' but shreds)!  Wasn't
much fun at the time, but it sure makes me laugh thinkin' back...

Moral:  Don't drive into the wilderness with nothing but a japanese jack!

------------------------------

From: Brad Nicholson <76062.3042@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 18:43:11 -0300
Subject: CCR Fall Show

Hello Oldsmobilers!!!

The Capitol City Rockets Chapter of the Oldsmobile Club of America will be
having our 8th Annual All-Oldsmobile Fall Show on Sunday October 6, 1996 @
Templeton Oldsmobile in Vienna, VA featuring:
  
o  OCA judging w/ awards
o  FREE T-shirt, dash plaque and goodie bag for each entry.
o  Oldies 100 WBIG to supply the tunes.
o  Food vendor for your heart clogging needs with breakfast & lunch
o  Parts Department open w/ discounts on all cash & check purchases
o  Great door prizes to be given away all day.

Pre-registration $10 first car, $5 each additional car,  $12 day of show.
PRE-1949 Oldsmobiles & spectators are free !!!!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Gates open @ 9AM, judging starts @ 12PM,  awards as soon as judging is completed
(3PM???)

For more info, e-mail me or a registration form, e-mail me for the address to
send your self-addressed stamped #10 envelope.


 ---  
| | |  Brad Nicholson
| | |  1987 442 W-42
|/|\|  President - Capitol City Rockets, OCA
| | |  76062.3042@compuserve.com
 ---

------------------------------

From: Jason Barnes <junko@YorkU.CA>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 19:34:52 -0300
Subject: Re: Fun with the Torque Wrench

Gotta use oil. Ive had an upper a arm bolt (the ones that compress the shims), 
which were used but cleaned and zinc plated, break as described.  I hardly tightened 
them and im glad!  I can only imagine if it broke on the street.

   My 71 Cutlass repair manual is incomplete does anyone have some torque numbers handy?
		i)bearing plate retainer nuts.  Hold axle bearing plate to the diff 
housing on a 10 bolt type O differential.
		ii)Univ joint clamp bolts(4-fine thread).  Depending on which page you 
read its either 11ft/lbs or 70!
		iii)Steering gear nut. Large nut holds pitman arm on. I cant believe this
is supposed to be 180Ft/lbs

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 18:24:15 -0300
Subject: Re: Fun with the Torque Wrench -Reply 

>Hee hee!  Better to have a stud fail than your lug wrench!  (This story,
>again, is a little off subject... but it's so fun that I just have to tell
it.  I'll
>make it short, I promise!)  I was visiting an old mining ghost town on the
>Utah-Nevada border.  It was 50 miles from anything on a rough dirt road. 
>Drove out there in my '84 ex-Renault Alliance

What brand was it after it quit being a Renault? heeheehee...

Okay, my lug wrench story: Out for a hot date in my Very First Car, a
1974 Chevy Vega GT Wagon, with who would turn out to be an unbelievably
patient and understanding girlfriend. While cruising along, start to notice
a whumpwhumpwhump noise emanating from front wheel. Stop to inspect tire
and find large bulge forming in sidewall of tire. At the very moment we
are standing next to car staring at tire, it blows out, as in old Three 
Stooges film.

Dig out spare: it's not only flat, but also has huge hole in sidewall, as
helpful indicator that carrying this tire down the road to get air in it
will not be productive. Just then, tow truck magically materializes (most
likely the same one featured in popular angel-rescue story making the
rounds) and stops, driver saying it was obvious I needed help.  :-)  He
offers ride to gas station; we toss spare in back and hop in. At gas
station, I pay approximately $138,000 for new tire which is almost the
correct size, he installs it on rim, gives us ride back to scene, verifies
that I have lug wrench and jack to install new wheel, we shake hands, he 
drives off.

At this point I discover that the lug wrench doesn't fit the lug nuts.

Well, 'nuff said. Not one of my better dates.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 20:19:18 -0300
Subject: Pushrods for the 403 (thanks for the advice) 

A big thanks to Bob Handren for the tip on Competition Cams' extra length
pushrods for solving my valvetrain geometry questions. BTW, the number
listed in the advertisement [(901)795-2400] is apparently for ordering only;
the tech line is toll-free (800) 999-0853. With a .100" reduced base diam.
cam, cut heads and a valve job, my pushrods were giving me between no
preload and -.020 preload (anti-load? heck, they were just loose...) I also
wanted to stick with 5/16" pushrods, as this is a mild motor, and everything
except the pushrods is already bolted together.

Comp Cams does carry pushrods for the SB Olds in .025" increments, but only
in their serious-duty line (4130 steel), for $130. I could have had them in
8.275", 8.300" or 8.325" for my 403, but that would have been real overkill
for such a mild motor (.444" int/.474" exh.). Either way, this was better
than $150 for Mondello's +.100" 5/16" SB pushrods

Summit, however, had Crane chrome-moly hardened pushrods, 5/16" diam., at
8.350" (+.100" over stock length) that fit the bill nicely, and for only
$82. That and a couple of packs of .030" rocker shims, and I should be in
business.

Getting the rocker geometry and lifter preload set on a stock-type rocker
system really isn't that hard when you've got the rockers staring right at
you. It is clear what things should look like: pushrod depressing lifter
plunger .030-.050", rocker tip in center of valve at mid lift, bottom of
rocker pedestal contacting head. All you need is longer pushrods or shims
(or both) to get the proper preload. 

Of course, this changes with more radical cam lifts.

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #238
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