To:	oldsmobile-digest @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET @ ABTLAB
Date:	09/12/96 02:44:25 AM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #297


oldsmobile-digest       Thursday, 12 September 1996    Volume 01 : Number 297


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 02:32:24 -0300
Subject: Re: 70 Hood info.

Dave,
A 70 hood will not work on a 71 or 72. Therefore, a 71 or 72 hood will not 
work 
on your 70.

Art Fuller 

------------------------------

From: Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 05:09:28 -0300
Subject: Ford/Olds

Steve writes:
>So I guess that makes them equal???? :)

Ummmmmm, so the Oldsmobiles on this list are no better and no worse than 
the F*rds out there? 

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on that one!


Michael R. Hall                                  Ortonville, Michigan
E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com                   OCA #17903
The Oldsmobile Stable:    
     1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
     1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...

------------------------------

From: Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 05:09:29 -0300
Subject: Re: Deep Thoughts

Jeff Zeilmann wrote:
> As the light

HUGE Snip...

> wooden stake.


Orderly? Orderly! Please take him away to Lansing for R&R...


Michael R. Hall                                  Ortonville, Michigan
E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com                   OCA #17903
The Oldsmobile Stable:    
     1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
     1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...

------------------------------

From: Esko.Ilola@Tele.telebox.fi
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 04:13:31 -0300
Subject: Message cloning and time delay ( list, not olds related )

As you propably noticed, We (me and the finnish telecom) made it
ABSOLUTELY clear that a wiper motor has a switch inside.......

I apologize (how do you spell this word ?) this but I can't guarantee
it never happens again.

Also you propably have noticed that my responses are somewhat slow.
This is because my local time is 7 hours in advance. When the finnish
clocks show 12 am, your clocks show 7 am.

**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi           *
* X400  G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
* Oldsmobile 98  1964  4D HT                 *
**********************************************

------------------------------

From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 02:24:00 -0300
Subject: Re: any tips for good resto. books

>The book is "How to Restore American Cars of the
>50's", by Motorbooks International (by the editors of Cars and Parts
>magazine).  Very worthwhile.

Thank you Bob for the info.  Very worthwhile indeed.  I was going to ask the 
same question.  In fact has anyone else seen any books specific to 
Oldsmobile on restoration, ie Engine, tranny rebuilding?

Jeff Zeilmann
SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
'68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible

------------------------------

From: Frank Boerger <103454.317@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 09:34:16 -0300
Subject: FW: 67 Service manual

The number for Faxon's is: 1-800-458-2734.  They're pricey;that's where I  got
mine.

Frank Boerger/'68 C/S Convt.. 


>I got my books from Faxon's Auto Literature in San Diego.
>The area code there is (619), but I don't have the number. I think they
>have an (800) number which you can get in Hemmings Motor News.

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 18:58:22 -0300
Subject: Re: 70 Hood info.

Dave Holgate wrote:
> 
>....
>
> I'm in the process of
> looking for a  W-30 hood and need to know which year W-30 hoods are the
> same as my 70'? I've heard that the 70'-72's are all the same. I look
> forward to the good info and advice I'll get on this list!
> 
> Dave Holgate
> (am435@detroit.freenet.org)
> 

Welcome Dave,
	I get a kick out of new comers because they all have a different story 
to tell. 
Anyway, you're wanting a W-25 hood. The W-25 hood goes with the W-30 pkg. The 
'70 model W-25 
hood is unique and will not fit a '71-'72 model and vice versa. The '70 W-25 
has a front 
lip tang that extends down into the front grill area. The '71-'72 W-25's do 
not have this. 
These hoods are quite rare to find however, being at '70 you're lucky, as they 
are less 
difficult to find than the '71-'72 W-25, but still difficult never the less. 
You should 
attend swap meets like Carlisle (sp?) in Pen. state. Beprepared to spend 
atleast $800-$1000 
for a descent hood.
- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 04:53:23 -0300
Subject: Re: Trouble with wiring harness

Esko Ilola wrote:
> 
> Last thursday me and my wife were driving our 98 to home. During the drive 
we noticed
> a smell of burning wire coming in. We supposed that the smell was coming 
from the
> nasty looking Lada driving in front of us.
> 
> 
> If you guys have ANYTHING to ask of wiring harness of a Ninety Eight -64 
4DHT Holiday
> Sports Sedan, don't hesitate to ask me.
> 
> --
> **********************************************
> * Esko Ilola                                 *

Esko,

Being a low ranking amateur on electronics/electrics, I admire your 
confidence & ability.  I would never have taken the whole harness out 
unless I was sure that I had no choice.  I have taken the one out of my 
'68 442, but it was so messed-up that I couldn't figure just what had 
been done & I wasn't splice something back together any more than 
necessary.

I may call on you if I have any trouble getting mine running over the 
next couple of months.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 05:12:52 -0300
Subject: Re: reclining bucket seat

mefco@sprynet.com wrote:
>=20
> I have a question for the knowledgable. When was a reclining bucket pas=
senger
> seat offered in a Cutlass? I have one, but never knew if it applied to =
a '70
> Cutlass.
> The reason for this question is that I looked at a buddy's 70 Ram air I=
V Pontiac
> and there is a documented passenger reclining bucket.  He said they off=
ered this
> option for only 4 or 5 months.
> My bucket, I was told, came out of an A body Buick of approximately the=
 same
> vintage. If it is proper for a '70 I will put it in the frame off I'm d=
oing.
> Come on all you experts, help me out.
>=20
> Art Fuller


Art,

There is a lot of interest in the Buick camp over this option & the=20
applicable years too.  If the seat has the back release on the side of=20
the seat & the back is metal instead of plastic, it is a '6-'67 type. =20
If the back is plastic w/the release on the side, it is a '68-'69 type.=20
 If the release button is in the middle rear of the back, it is 1970 up.

These seat backs were common on the Toronado & Eldorado Strato bench=20
seats.  Some Pontiac Grand Prix had them.  They can be removed & put on=20
a bucket seat easily.  the problem is getting the correct seat back=20
release & the headrests for the later cars.  My '68 442 has this option=20
as well as my '67 Toronado & I will probably add it to my '70 buick GS.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama =20
- --=20
MZ=90

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 10:17:37 -0300
Subject: Re: '67 Olds technical manual needed.

> From ggawron@comm.mot.com Tue Sep 10 20:08:56 1996
> Date: Mon, 09 Sep 1996 20:03:58 -0300
> From: Glenn Gawron <ggawron@comm.mot.com>
> Subject: '67 Olds technical manual needed.
> To: oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
> MIME-version: 1.0
> Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
> 
> I just inherited a '67 Cutlass Supreme with a 330 4 barrel and 40K
> ORIGINAL miles.

Congrats!  A classy car, and one of the prettiest CS's in this reporter's
humble and obviously *objective* opinion :)

>  It hadent run in 15+years.  I just got it started and
> am looking for a service manual.  I've called a handfull of places with
> no luck.  
> 
> Any ideas??????
> Thanks

Glenn:

My wife, for Valentine's Day last (romantic, huh?), bought me a '67 Olds
Chassis Manual from Year One.  They're reproductions of the originals from
GM.  I think they're in the $60 range or so.

Excellent manual, tells you how to do everything.

There's also another manual I bought about 2 years, yet another reproduction
of an original from back in '67.  This one is specific to Cutlass's & 442s.
It concentrates on schematics, both electrical and vacuum.  Also shows such
things as how to take apart the dash, etc.  I got that at a swap meet for
about $25... wish I could remember specifically what it was called.

Hope this helps!



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 13:24:40 -0300
Subject: Re: Ford/Olds

Mike Hall wrote:
> 
> Ummmmmm, so the Oldsmobiles on this list are no better and no worse 
> than the F*rds out there?

Having both to deal with, I could only wish Jeannie's Lincoln was a easy 
to maintain as the Toro.  I may be comparing apples and oranges -- the 
Lincoln has computerized everything while the Toro is typical 60's 
technology (with the possible exception of the Comfortron which was 
originally designed on Mars).

...but it's never taken me five and a half hours to change a water pump 
in an Oldsmobile!

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 19:39:42 -0300
Subject: Re: Barrie Swap Meet details cont'd

PHartlieb@AOL.COM wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 96-09-10 19:18:05 EDT, you write:
> 
> << But I did get a look at the VIN #. It had a U in it. What does that
>  mean, quick someone look it up!! >>
> 
> U?  Well lets see, looks like thats the L75 455 4bbl w/400 THM
> 
> Paul

And that's exactly what it had.
- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 14:14:08 -0300
Subject: Re: vin #

Roger M. Borlase wrote:
> 
> http://www.microdata.com/rborlase/borlase.htm   (car)

That's a very novel roof scoop configuration, Roger.  
Wouldn't fixing the air conditioner been easier?

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 12:49:09 -0300
Subject: Re[4]: Die Cast Models 

Sorry, only plastic models :<.

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

------------------------------

From: eric_b_buckner@non-hp-om.cv.hp.com
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 12:24:51 -0300
Subject: axle bearings

Item Subject: cc:Mail Text
     Hey guys,
     Needing some technical assistance out here in the great North West.
     My LR outside axle bearing collapsed over the last two days. Seeing as 
     how I'd be very hard pressed to find a manual for my car I came to 
     you. How do I go about getting the old bearing out and getting the new 
     one in(without taking it to a shop)?I had the wheel off last night and 
     there were three holes on the hub and four bolts (to the axle?) 
     underneath . There is about 1/4" play vertically but none in and out 
     so I think I only need to replace the outer one.
     Thanx for the expert assistance I have come to depend on from you 
     guys.
     Eric Buckner
     '64 F-85 Deluxe
     Albany, OR

------------------------------

From: "Mike Coccagna" <mikec@oz.kis.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 13:16:07 -0300
Subject: Re: Undeserved Kudos

On 10 Sep 96 at 22:20, Greg Beaulieu wrote:

> I just got home after being away all day to discover the comments
> about the mail problems with the list, the report that I was aware
> of it (I wasn't), and then the profuse thanks that I was on top of
> the problem.

Greg, 

You can keep the Thanks!  Consider it a Thanks (for nothing?) for 
just having the list and spending time maintaining it (even if it 
does the maintenance itself)

Mike
'91 W-40 Quad442

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 12:50:01 -0300
Subject: Axle Bearing 

Once you remove the brake drum, you can remove the axle by taking off the
four bolts which hold the axle in place. You will have to rotate the end
of the axle which has one oversize hole precisely for removing the axle
bolts. You'll need a socket extension to get at the bolts and possibly a slide 
hammer to remove the axle. I think the bearing is press in.

My experience is only disassembling in search of rear end gears. I have 
never replace a my own bearings.  Just a caveat.
cf

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 05:34:21 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Undeserved Kudos 

     I thought it moslty looked for certain 4-letter words, like F*rd and 
     S**b.  Gotta protect all those innocent young ears out there.  :-)
     
     Tom L.


______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Undeserved Kudos
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    9/10/96 7:20 PM
     
> ...majordomo will intercept a message that contains certain key words 
> and bounce it to me, so it never makes it to the live list...
     
Key words like "ha-ha".  Which would answer the Roger's question about 
the decrease in message traffic.   ;)
     
The 66 Toro and Mike

------------------------------

From: Frank Boerger <103454.317@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 12:57:14 -0300
Subject: FW: axle bearings

Eric,

Here's my  $.02.

The four bolts hold the axle bearing/retaining cover to the brake backing plate
and to the end of the axle housing.  Remove the four bolts.  With luck, you
should be able to pull the axle out of the differential end, and remove it.
There is only one bearing, at the wheel end.  It is held in place by a pressed
on collar.  At this point, I take mine to a muffler/brake place, and they cut
off the old collar, press off the old bearing, press on the new bearing, press
on and stake the new collar, you pay, say $30, slide the assembly into the
differential, install the four bolts as original, install drum/wheel/lugs nuts,
and VIOLA !!!

This was the procedure on my '68 Cutlass convt.

Frank Boerger
'68 Cutlass Convertible/'68 coupe for parts.

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 13:04:18 -0300
Subject: Big Block Temp Range 

What is a reasonable range over which an Olds big block is safe operating?

I checked my 1966 manual last night and the hot light goes on at 253 degrees
+ or - 2 degrees fahrenheit. Mine usually runs around 180, but goes to 210
220 on hotter days. Will this damage the motor?

Does anyone have any idea what temp/time is necessary to warp a head? 

I think my car is fine with the current cooling steps I've taken, but wanted
to get your views. This also seems to be a (uh, sorry) hot topic among other
list members. 

thanks
cf

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 13:04:17 -0300
Subject: Re: Rear end Was: The Rockit's back  

>doug where did you get your tire to rpm data sheet from.  I would love to
>have
>one or are you using a formula to calculate this info.  I need info for the 
>29 inch tire with 4:10 and 4:33

     Umm, well,  I guessed.  I stopwatched the milemarkers, and figured out
where 60 was at, then looked over at the tach (accurate within about 150
RPM, I'd guess!)
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 13:04:22 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: 66 w/ EGR? 

>You are right but I was told it was egr by a mechanic, but I thought I
>was wrong all along.  Even so, finding a manifold that fits is still a
>problem.  The Edelbrock performer won't fit because it needs that PCV
>valve.  


     Uhh, when the mechanic told you it needed an EGR Valve, did he happen
to mention "Why" he thought it needed one?  It's my guess that he was trying
to fix a performance problem of spark knock, and assumed it was running too
hot, so a cooler combustion shot laced with exhaust should help the problem.
It was done on many in the 70's.  The words "425 Super Rocket--Ultra High
Compression" may offer some other insights to this problem.  Perhaps what he
~meant~ to say (heh, heh..) was that you should find a gas station that
sells high octane fuel to supplement your 8-holed monster, or if nothing
else, some 104+ Octane boost. 
     Now, if you happen to be in California, and actually give a Rat's A**
about NOx emissions, and want to lower your combustion temperatures anyway,
then an EGR system might not be a bad idea.  If, on the other hand, you want
your motor to be healthy (***We've all heard what the Surgeon General has to
say about second hand smoke!!!***) and live up to the emblem it's wearing...
Well, you see where I'm going on this one!  
     On a serious side, though, if you do actually want EGR, there are kits
available.  My 403 had an Offy Dual-Port intake, that had no provisions for
EGR.  However, there was a threaded pilot hole into the exhaust crossover
passage, and a threaded port in the back of the carb mounting flange (that
apparantly would have worked well for Nitrous, too)  Offy offered an EGR kit
that connected those to ports to a valve, and ~viola~ instant EGR.  As for
the PCV, most (if not all) carbs have a huge vacuum port at the base (in the
throttle plate) to accept a PCV hose.  This goes straight to the PCV Valve
in the rocker cover.  The other cover should have a PCV
vent/breather/filter/cap/thingy on it.  You should have absolutely no
problem finding an intake for this motor.  You might not have the selection
that GM's retarded child has available, but there is enough out there to
make us all happy.  My 425 has an 2151 Edelbrock Performer and a
non-matching (for now) Q-jet.  No EGR, Stock PCV.  VERY impressive.  I run
91 octane, and as far as I know, all the internals are stock.  You don't
hear the cam at idle, but I can't argue its presence.
     I hope this proves informative for you, and I wish you the best of luck
on the motor.  Any other questions, feel free to ask us all...
     Oh, and by the way, Tom, Welcome aboard!  You'll find this list
helpful, informative, amusing, and probably see some really good info about
non-Olds stuff too.  That last part is a bit controversial, but only on this
list can one toothbrush invoke such laughter!
     Good luck!


    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: Daniel Dale <daleds@okra.millsaps.edu>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 13:22:18 -0300
Subject: Re: Exhaust manifolds 

><< -I installed dual exhaust manifolds, numberes 402294 and 412287  >>
>
>What engine size are we talking here?  I didn't need to change the manifolds
>when I converted my '72 to duals.
>
>Paul

we're talking about a 455 in a '72 98. It's not necessary to change them, but
on single exhaust cars the LH exhaust is run into the RH manifold against the
flow of the exhaust. it then has to turn around inside the manifold and the
exhaust from both sides must exit the back of the RH manifold. very bad for
flow.

L       R
\       /\
 \     /  \
  ----/    \
            \
            |
            |
            |


make sense?




Dan Dale daleds@okra.millsaps.edu http://www.millsaps.edu/~daleds/index.html 
cars: 1972 Cotner-Bevington Oldsmobile 98 Endloader, 1966 Pontiac GTO, 1973  
Imperial LeBaron, 1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-X, 1955 Cadillac Seville, 1969  
Cadillac DeVille Convertibles (2), 1976 Cadillac Series 75 Fleetwood Brougham
1961 Imperial Custom, 1973 Buick Riviera                                     

------------------------------

From: Daniel Dale <daleds@okra.millsaps.edu>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 13:26:14 -0300
Subject: Re: Alternator hookup 

if you want to just save alot of hassle you might try changing over to an
internally regulated alternator.  My homepage has instructions on how to do it
and still keep the appearance of an external one. the address is in my .sig


Dan Dale daleds@okra.millsaps.edu http://www.millsaps.edu/~daleds/index.html 
cars: 1972 Cotner-Bevington Oldsmobile 98 Endloader, 1966 Pontiac GTO, 1973  
Imperial LeBaron, 1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-X, 1955 Cadillac Seville, 1969  
Cadillac DeVille Convertibles (2), 1976 Cadillac Series 75 Fleetwood Brougham
1961 Imperial Custom, 1973 Buick Riviera                                     

------------------------------

From: hitson@leadbelt.com (Roger Hitson)
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 1996 01:32:12 -0300
Subject: Re: axle bearings

>Item Subject: cc:Mail Text
>     Hey guys,
>     Needing some technical assistance out here in the great North West.
>     My LR outside axle bearing collapsed over the last two days. Seeing as 
>     how I'd be very hard pressed to find a manual for my car I came to 
>     you. How do I go about getting the old bearing out and getting the new 
>     one in(without taking it to a shop)?I had the wheel off last night and 
>     there were three holes on the hub and four bolts (to the axle?) 
>     underneath . There is about 1/4" play vertically but none in and out 
>     so I think I only need to replace the outer one.
>     Thanx for the expert assistance I have come to depend on from you 
>     guys.
>     Eric Buckner
>     '64 F-85 Deluxe
>     Albany, OR
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________

Just had the axle out of a "68 Cutlass. It was as you described. Rotate hub 
so you can remove the four bolts. Axle came right out. Seal in mine was a 
press-in. No big deal to replace if you can find the right one to fit. 
Almost certain to destroy old seal getting it out, but probably is bad anyway.

Roger Hitson 

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 16:30:14 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: 66 w/ EGR?

buehner wrote:

> Oh, and by the way, Tom, Welcome aboard!  

And from us also.  (carefully avoiding the hated "me too" comment)

> You'll find this list helpful, informative, amusing, and probably see 
> some really good info about non-Olds stuff too.

We're not gonna talk Saab again, are we?

> That last part is a bit controversial, but only on this list can one 
> toothbrush invoke such laughter!

Or debate!   ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 13:34:26 -0300
Subject: Re: vin # 

>That's a very novel roof scoop configuration, Roger.  
>Wouldn't fixing the air conditioner been easier?

It was the optional periscope... :-)

It's about the only good use for a DEC rainbow.  However, I am typing on a 
functional one now. 

Who needs AC when we have quarter windows that function as scoops?  A similiar 
setup is by NASCAR.  AC would have been more expensive.  I tried to getting 
get it going 2 summers ago, but the compressor died 2 days after putting the 
freon in. :-(  And a new compressor is over $300 with a rebuilt unti at $125 
or so.  Plus labor.  Plus decreased fuel mileage...  I only really need it a 
few days out of the year, so why bother?

Wocket Wodga and his Wappid Wocket Wagon.

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 13:38:37 -0300
Subject: Help - I thought I had a V8

Last night my '70 98 w/ a 455 and GM HEI decided to start
running on less that 8 cylinders.  I checked all the 
wires from the plugs to the distributor.  I checked all
my vacuum connections.  I made sure the distributor wasn't
loose.

Voltage regulator?  HEI module?  Needs a tuneup?  Any
ideas?

- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-5450    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

   

------------------------------

From: The Viking <avar@infinet.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 13:50:22 -0300
Subject: Meet in Columbus

Does anyone know anything about a meet on the 15th at Tom Gill Olds in 
Columbus, Ohio
Thanks
AL


 "The Viking"
  PGP Public Key Available by E-Mail Request

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 14:16:45 -0300
Subject: Re: Meet in Columbus

At 01:50 PM 9/11/96 -0300, The Viking wrote:
>Does anyone know anything about a meet on the 15th at Tom Gill Olds in 
>Columbus, Ohio
>Thanks
>AL


What would you like to know?  :)

The meet is the 10th Annual All Oldsmobile Car Show and Swap Meet,
being held at Tom Gill Oldsmobile, on Billinsgley Road off of Sawmill
Road off of I-270 in the northwest Columbus area.  The meet is
sponsored by the Mid-Ohio Chapter of the OCA.

Registration begins at 8:30 a.m. and ends at 11:30 a.m.  Judging begins
at noon, and trophies are awarded at 4 p.m.  Registration is $12 for show
and judged, $10 show only.  There will be the usual door prizes, special
awards, and so forth.


Dan


************************************************
Daniel A. Gulino
Associate Professor and Graduate Chairman
Department of Chemical Engineering
Ohio University
Athens, Ohio  45701-2979
(614) 593-1495
(614) 593-0873 (fax)
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://www.ent.ohiou.edu/che/faculty/gulino.html
************************************************

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 14:21:11 -0300
Subject: Re: Buick/Olds 

>> Sorry but my 460 "Police Cruiser" Mustang could take any of yer 
>> "old"smobiles...  heehee
>
>Okey-dokey...
>
>Let's see who can get 6 people and two coolers to a tailgate party
>faster...


     Yeah, and that's just the ~front~ seat!!!  (Don't worry, there's plenty
of room in the trunk for a five point slow (If it can catch up!)  :)

     I raced an early 80's Capri w/302 Boss in it.  Roller cam, 4spd, some
aftermarket suspension stuff in the back.  Rumored to be quite fast.  I must
say the bitter taste of burnt horsemeat still has a certain dimented appeal
factor!
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 14:31:32 -0300
Subject: Re: [Toro] Tri-Carb Toronado 

>> The real neat car, however, is the shortened 2-seat Toro the factory
toyed with.
>
>That is the same car we are talking about here! Page 52/53 if you still
have the book. 
>If you want, I can photocopy and send?!?!


     Actually, I think we'd all be interested in seeing it.  How about
begging/borrowing/ uhh...! the use of a scanner and send the images to
Bryce?  Publishers might not like it, if it ws on a larger scale, but I
doubt this would constitute much of a problem for them.  I'd like to see it,
anyway.
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: stevew@atsmail.gc.lucent.com
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 14:55:44 -0300
Subject: Re: Vinyl dyeing 

Dan:

Have you considered going to the auto paint store?

I've done armrests and door skins with vinyl paints from the
store that sells auto body paint systems.

steve
OCA #021608
At 03:53 PM 9/10/96 -0300, you wrote:
>I'm getting ready to dye the dash and a-pillar trim.  Does anybody have 
>any hints/tips?  Also, the only places I can find that has the vinyl die 
>prep is Eastwood ($7) or Year One ($14).  However, Eastwood does not 
>have the correct color of dye.  Would it be wise to mix and match the 
>prep and dye?
>
>TIA,
>
>Dan
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 13:50:06 -0300
Subject: Re: Ford/Olds 

>...but it's never taken me five and a half hours to change a water pump 
>in an Oldsmobile!

Well, now... I had to do this on the '82 Cutlass. Unbolted all the usual
bolts around the perimeter of the pump after removing the usual stuff to
get that far, but was left with a bracket in the way, which supported the
alternator, which had to be removed to free the bracket, but which needed
its rear support removed first, which could only be unbolted at its rear
end, which was under the carburetor.

Reassembly is the reverse of the above.  :-(

Well, it was a _Buick_ engine, FWIW...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 18:58:33 -0300
Subject: Re: Ford/Olds

Andrew C. Green wrote:
> 
> Well, now... I had to do this on the '82 Cutlass. 

The Lincoln Log: Removed shroud, radiator, fan, hoses, etc. plus the 
altenator.  Had to dangle the smog pump, A/C compressor, power steering 
pump, and misc wires.  Removed large mounting plate approx 20" X 15" made 
from the hull of a battleship and lesser brackets...  THEN the pump.

The dealer was kind enough to offer to replace my $40 water pump for...
a today-only special of... $575!

I'm beginning to understand John Wilkes Booth motivation.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 17:18:06 -0300
Subject: Re: Big Block Temp Range 

          With a 160 t'stat, mine usually run in the 160-180 range,
          however they will see over 200 in hot, stop-and-go traffic.
          Don't worry.  You'll be hard pressed to damage your cast
          iron motor at those temperatures.

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: "Peg O'Connor" <peg@grove.ufl.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 16:28:56 -0300
Subject: Wanted to Buy --- CHEAP!

Hi guys,

I'm looking for a car in good running condition, no major repairs needed,
for . . . (don't laugh) . . . . between $300-400.  Of course I'd prefer an
Olds, but I suppose I can't be picky with a budget like that.  I'm in
Florida, and I'd need to get the car to Pittsburgh, so I'm somewhat
flexible with location.  Can you help?  Thanks!!

8)
peg

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 09:56:39 -0300
Subject: Found in rec.autos.misc newsgroup. 

     Looking for someone (preferably in the Chicago area) who owns a 1970
     Oldsmobile Cutlass convertible 442 W-30. The Danbury Mint would like 
     to
     take pictures and measure it for modeling purposes and will pay 
     $150.00
     for same.
     
     Please e-mail only to: tchris231@aol.com (not the above address)
     
     Thank you!

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 16:10:30 -0300
Subject: Re: Found in rec.autos.misc newsgroup. 

>     Looking for someone (preferably in the Chicago area) who owns a 1970
>     Oldsmobile Cutlass convertible 442 W-30. The Danbury Mint would like 
>     to take pictures and measure it for modeling purposes and will pay 
>     $150.00 for same.

This is fine, but I have yet to see one of those hideously-overpriced
"collector" mail-order models that came anywhere close to getting the
proportions as accurately rendered as those plastic model kits from
MPC, AMT and similar. Some items like beltline moldings, when cast as
separate pieces so they can be chromed prior to assembly, come out
with a scale thickness that would be as fat as your wrist in full-size.
Good luck, Danbury Mint!

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 16:06:00 -0300
Subject: Needing Mondello info

Does anyone know if Mondello has information on the internet?  If anyone 
knows their web site address (if any), and/or E-mail address (if any), 
please let me know.

Thanks a bunch,

Jeff Zeilmann
SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
'68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 17:33:12 -0300
Subject: Re: Found in rec.autos.misc newsgroup. 

Have you seen the die casts from TFC(toys for collectors).  I think they 
are quality repos except for the 72 H/O.  for the 72, they use a 70 front
end,
but the other 70 models look good.


W MACHINES

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 17:39:20 -0300
Subject: Re: Needing Mondello info 

Ask your performance questions here. Their are many people here with
performance info and can tell you were to pick up parts cheaper than 
Mondello.  Just ask or even e-mail me personally and I will help you the 
best I can without a hastle unlike Mr. Joe


W Machines (Mark Prince)  

Mondellos phone numbers are
(805) 237 8808
(805) 237 8814 Fax
(800) 252 2527 toll free

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 17:43:06 -0300
Subject: Re: [Toro] Tri-Carb Toronado

On Wed, 11 Sep 1996, buehner wrote:
> >> The real neat car, however, is the shortened 2-seat Toro the factory
> toyed with.
> >That is the same car we are talking about here! Page 52/53 if you still
> have the book. 
> >If you want, I can photocopy and send?!?!
>      Actually, I think we'd all be interested in seeing it.  How about
> begging/borrowing/ uhh...! the use of a scanner and send the images to
> Bryce?  Publishers might not like it, if it ws on a larger scale, but I
> doubt this would constitute much of a problem for them.  I'd like to see it,
> anyway.

The 2-seat Toro was pictured on the cover of the February/96 Journey With 
Olds. Honestly, it really was ugly... even though it was pictured next to 
the "butt-ugly" '68 Toro (apologies to the departed Gregg Ludlam who 
coined that phrase). :)  FWIW, I like the look of the '68 Toro...

For all the world, it reminded me of those truncated service vehicles you 
see running around the apron at airports. Sort of like a cat without a 
tail...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 20:40:37 -0300
Subject: Re: Wanted to Buy --- CHEAP!

Peg,

Geez, you're not askin for much.  A $300-400 car to drive to Pittsburgh?
(as an ex-PA guy, I'll resist the temptation to ask why leave Florida)  
How soon do you need it?

I assume you get the Tampa Tribune up there.  It has a pretty good 
selection of used cars.  If something you call about looks promising, let 
me know and I'll see if I can go look it over for you.  

In the mean time, I'll keep my eyes open.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Frank Boerger <103454.317@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 17:47:19 -0300
Subject: FW: Found in rec.autos.misc newsgroup.

>     Looking for someone (preferably in the Chicago area) who owns a 1970
>     Oldsmobile Cutlass convertible 442 W-30. The Danbury Mint would like 
>     to take pictures and measure it for modeling purposes and will pay 
>     $150.00 for same.

>This is fine, but I have yet to see one of those hideously-overpriced
>"collector" mail-order models that came anywhere close to getting the
>proportions as accurately rendered as those plastic model kits from
MPC, AMT and similar. Some items like beltline moldings, when cast as
>separate pieces so they can be chromed prior to assembly, come out
>with a scale thickness that would be as fat as your wrist in full-size.
>Good luck, Danbury Mint!

>Andrew C. 

Yeah, but it's kinda cool to see that they are gonna get around to doing an 
Olds
!!

Frank Boerger
'68 C/S Cvt.

------------------------------

From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 18:00:00 -0300
Subject: Re: Found in rec.autos.misc newsgroup.

Do you know if they have any '69s?  If so, where do I get info about TFC?

Jeff Zeilmann
SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
'68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible
 ----------
Have you seen the die casts from TFC(toys for collectors).  I think they
are quality repos except for the 72 H/O.  for the 72, they use a 70 front 
end,

------------------------------

From: Jan Malone <chickey1@fidnet.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 18:25:03 -0300
Subject: Re: '66 Buick GS

Rocketeer wrote:
> 
> Does anyone out there know anyone interested in a nice rust free
> and cheap '66 Buick GS hardtop?. Drop me a line for details.
> 
> Boyd Parker (aka Rocketeer)            __|__
>                                       |  |  |  Why drive just a car...
> 1966 4-speed Cutlass Convertible      |  |  |  when you can ride a rocket !
> 1970 4-4-2 Convertible                |  |  |
>                                       | /|\ |
>                                       |/ | \|
>                                       |__|__|
>                                          |Sorry the first message got 
interupted. Is your 66 Buick a Skylark GS. 
We are mainly into Olds But we also have a 66 Buick. Where is the car 
located. 
Jan and Larry Malone
71 Cutlass conv. 47 olds 66 series and yes a 66 Buick Skylark conv

------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei-2@mail.idt.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 18:40:39 -0300
Subject: Re: Ignition switch for Ninety Eight 1964 (4DHT Holiday Sports Sedan) 

At 02:18 PM 9/10/96 -0300, you wrote:
>>So, I need an IGNITION switch, all other wiring stuff is now OK.
>
>Okay. Any volunteers want to go to the local Trak Auto and buy Esko
>a switch? 
>Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
>Datalogics, Inc.

My parts supplier says as far as he can tell the switch for the 64 has been
discontinued. I can get one for a 65. It lista as Ignition switch fro 1965
Oldsmobile - All. Aparently they used the same one for all models (makes
sense back then). Let me know if it will fit and I'll get it for him.

 >Dave Isho --- davei-2@mail.idt.net
     >67 Cutlass CS Convertible
     

------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei-2@mail.idt.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 18:44:23 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Die Cast Models 

At 03:17 PM 9/10/96 -0300, you wrote:
>David Brown wrote:
>> 
>> Check out:
>> http://www.marketplaza.com/shop/evers.html
>
>They don't have any Oldsmobiles on there. In fact, they don't have a lot 
>of the Ertl muscle cars.  Am I missing something?  Also, like I said 
>before, a week or 2 I was told that those Ertl 69s would be delayed 
>again for several months.
>
>-Dan
They do have a couple of Olds model kits though.

 >Dave Isho --- davei-2@mail.idt.net
     >67 Cutlass CS Convertible
     

------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei-2@mail.idt.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 18:43:08 -0300
Subject: Re: Ignition switch for Ninety Eight 1964 (4DHT Holiday Sports Sedan) 

At 02:18 PM 9/10/96 -0300, you wrote:
>>So, I need an IGNITION switch, all other wiring stuff is now OK.
>
>Okay. Any volunteers want to go to the local Trak Auto and buy Esko
>a switch? 
>Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
>Datalogics, Inc.

My parts supplier says as far as he can tell the switch for the 64 has been
discontinued. I can get one for a 65. It lista as Ignition switch fro 1965
Oldsmobile - All. Aparently they used the same one for all models (makes
sense back then). Let me know if it will fit and I'll get it for him.

 >Dave Isho --- davei-2@mail.idt.net
     >67 Cutlass CS Convertible
     

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 22:28:06 -0300
Subject: Re: [Toro] Tri-Carb Toronado

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
> 
> The 2-seat Toro was pictured on the cover of the February/96 Journey 
> With Olds. Honestly, it really was ugly... even though it was 
pictured                                      ^^^^ 
                                  THAT'S ONE!

> next to the "butt-ugly" '68 Toro ...                    ^^^^ 
                  THAT'S 2!

> ...it reminded me of those truncated service vehicles see running 
> around the apron at airports. Sort of like a cat without a tail...

Yikes!  Don't hold back, Greg.  You can tell us how you really feel.  
Come on, man.  We won't get mad.  Honest.

(You guy's got that spam ready?)

The 66 (un-ugly) Toro and (ugly) Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: ngomez@iadfw.net (Nick Gomez)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 18:44:55 -0300
Subject: Various Topics - Sorry! 

I haven't been keeping up with the list in a while, I'm sorry.

Saw some discussion over die cast Oldsmobiles. I know Hot Wheels has made a
1970 442 W30, an Aurora (for the Demolition Man movie, don't know how
accurate it is), and a late 70's - early 80's 442. Corgi had a first gen
Toronado, I think it's a 1966. There is a guy somewhere on the Internet
that has quite a few Olds models and die cast cars, mostly the promotional
models and slot cars and what not. Some cars you wouldn't think would be
made, but they're out there. Hard to find, but probably cool.

I kind of have a problem too. Found my car 'coughing' (hesitating) on
acceleration the other day. It shakes while I'm stopped at a light. If I
put it in neutral, it seems to diminish, but maybe I just don't notice it
at higher RPMs. My friend tried to adjust the timing for me, but now it
sounds like rattling (shaking) metal under acceleration. Any things I
should check first? I'd think it could be any number of things. =( Thanks
in advance.

Well, good evening from another big car owner. Take it easy...
Nick

    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    1965 Oldsmobile 98          TIP # 1048         Trade Live Concerts
    Dallas, Texas             MiSTie # 53344        Collect Hot Wheels
    ------------------------------------------------------------------
             Support Your Independent Community Radio Station

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 19:48:26 -0300
Subject: Re: Trans fluid change

n


>  
> I've decided a change in fluid for my Muncie 4 sp will be helpful in fixing 
the stiffness 
> when shifting into 2nd gear when cold.  I'll use either Red Line or Amsoil 
synthetic. 
> However, nothing in the shop manual about how to change the fluid.  There 
appears to be a 
> drain plug on the pass side of the trans case, about halfway up.  But the 
drain plus location 
> raises the question:  How would one drain the fluid in the bottom half of 
the case? 
> and, when drained, how would one refill it to the top?  Or, maybe the Muncie 
4 sp doesn't 
> need to be filled to the top?  Pls don't say the trans has to be removed for 
a simple fluid 
> change..... 
>  


	It's been a while since I've fooled with a M/T, but one thing you
might try is one of thoes pumps that fit into a bottle of gear oil (sorta
like a big liquid soap dispenser).  They run about 4 bucks at any auto
parts store.  All you would have to do to get the old oil out is put a
hose on the intake end of the pump and shoot it into a bucket.  Then when
the old stuff is gone, just clean off the pump, hook it into a new bottle
of gear oil, and *presto* you can pump it right back into the fill hole.
		Good luck!

			Scott
		1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: Rocket8179@aol.com
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 19:50:06 -0300
Subject: Re: Exhaust manifolds 

I had duals installed on my 71 Delta Royale a couple years ago.  I know some
guys
at a muffler shop in Durand MI.  All they did was plug the front outlet hole
on the right side exhaust manifold with a short peice of pipe, crimped and
welded at the end.  They then ran the two pipes from the manifolds back.
 This was quick and simple, but you have to use custom bent pipe.  This way I
have the option of going back to the single pipe setup in the future if I
decide to, and there will be no need to change the exhaust manifolds. Just
thought I would throw in a few words.

Brad Ross
71 Delta 88 Royale
94 Eighty Eight Royale LS

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 22:51:27 -0300
Subject: Re: Various Topics - Sorry!

Nick Gomez wrote:
> 
> Corgi had a first gen Toronado, I think it's a 1966. 

Ah!  A lead!  Cool.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 19:56:25 -0300
Subject: Re: Ignition switch for Ninety Eight 1964 

> >Okay. Any volunteers want to go to the local Trak Auto and buy Esko
> >a switch? I kind of think it'll be cheaper for one of us to do that
> >and drop it in the mail to him than for him to try and order it from
> >his end...?
> 
> Well, I was going to, but I've checked at all the auto parts places around
> town here (there's five or six different ones), and nobody can even get one.
> They can get the key & tumbler part, but not the switch.  Anybody else try??


	I ran into the exact same thing when I wanted to find a new switch
for my '60.  I ended up taking the old switch to the junkyard and finding
one that had the same wire plug pattern (they were the same for a few
years...in fact, I think the one I ended up with was out of a 63 or 64).
I think Poncho and Buick might have used the same plug too.  Only problem
with using one that was a different year was the new switch had some sort
of "rib" cast into it, and I had to do some creative re-shaping with a
file to make it fit.  But, it works, and it's a lot better than what the
parts guy suggested-- cutting the plug off, and using a "universal" switch
(trying to find which wire goes to which terminal the whole time, of
course).  Then I just had a locksmith cut a pair of keys for $12.  Sure, I
now have separate keys for my door and ignition, but thats something I'll
take care of after the car is driveable!!

			Scott
		1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

	P.S.  If anybody needs one of thoes in-dash switches, I could try
to find one for you...

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 12:01:23 -0300
Subject: Alternator conversion

When I convert to an internally regulated alterantor, what kind of car do I
need to get one from?  I need a core, too, I guess.  I want to get a new one
at the local parts-monger store (probably Pep Boys).  I don't want to pay a
core charge for an old one (unless, of course, it costs more to buy a core
than to pay the core charge).

Thanks!
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Cutlass Supreme  
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 20:59:06 -0300
Subject: Netscape Question 

Guys,
I'm just playing around with Netscape mail for the first hour now and am
wondering how or if I can config. it to send olds list posts to the news
part of the program rather than email which gets quite clogged with all
of the information I enjoy so much. 

It would help me a lot if someone can give me some direction on this 
point. TIA and sorry for the non-olds post.
cf 

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 21:01:08 -0300
Subject: Re: Autronic Eye 

In a message dated 96-09-10 22:07:37 EDT, you write:

<< Yup.  Prespace age electronics.  Spiffy stuff.  I didn't know they used
that
 stuff in such older autos.  Cool. >>

FYI, Oldsmobile, being the pioneering auto company that they were in their
heyday, introduced the Autronic Eye to the world on it's 1952 models.

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 21:01:39 -0300
Subject: Re: vin # 

In a message dated 96-09-10 22:59:30 EDT, you write:

<< Can you help out with this on my '72 Cutlass cruiser:?
 
 TR 929
 05D0184
 
 I know that 5D is last week in May.
  >>

Uhhhh, yeah.  I think...

TR 929 is the trim code.  I think the 9 is the key here.  My sales book has
code 19, Saddle Morocceen (vinyl).  Is that right?

05D0184, now thats where you got me.  You're right about the date code, but I
don't know what those other numbers are.  Are they all run together like that
on the data plate?  According to the shop manual, that should be the code for
the front seat type, which sould be something like A65 or A51 or something
like that.  I don't know what the 0184 is unless it's some kind of seat code
that I don't know about.  Maybe it's the code for a standard bench seat w/o a
center armrest, which is what your Cutlass-C should have.

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 21:02:51 -0300
Subject: Re: Need rrDoor for 67Delta884drht 

In a message dated 96-09-11 00:29:55 EDT, you write:

<<  A 98 door will also fit, can anyone >>

No it won't.  Ninety Eight doors have a squared off notch at bottom to make
room for the fender skirt.  Delta 88 doors have an arch to match the wheel
opening because there is no skirt.  Doors from a Delta 88, Delta Custom or Dy
(whoops!) Delmont 88 will interchange, but the trim will be different.

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 21:02:32 -0300
Subject: Re: Autronic, uh Guidematic 

In a message dated 96-09-11 00:24:16 EDT, you write:

<< Paul can you confirm if the '67 system is solid state? Also what does the
 dash eye look like? Any resemblance to '66 system? If so this could solve
 my tube scarcity problem while kitting out my 98 conv with a real strange
 and interesting option.

Got the box out the other night after I sent that post, 'cause I knew you
were gonna ask about it some more.  Here's what I got.  The "eye" is called a
photo-amplifier.  Then there's a new dimmer switch (G-matic only), a relay
that mounts right near the fuse box, and a rheostat that controls the
brightness sensitivity.  The rheostat mounts on the dash next to the steering
column, not on the light switch or on the eye like the older systems.  The
eye doesn't mount on the dash, it mounts on the driver's fender about 6-12"
forward of the windshield.  It is much shorter in length than yours, and is
wider than yours, which means that all the "guts" must be in there.  The eye
lens is amber colored.  This unit is very similar (if not identical) to the
setup that I have seen on late '60s Lincoln Continentals.  I don't think
there's ANY interchangability here.
 
 There were apparently a bunch of good engineering steps forward in '67,
 seemingly many more than 65-66: better tilt/tele turn switch, padded
 dash, hazard flasher on column, and now the guidematic. Good for them.
 Did they get to Discs in 67 too? They weren't available on '66's. 
  >>

Yeah, they had discs in '67, but only on the Toro and 88, not on the Ninety
Eight.  The reason the Ninety Eight was slighted is because the stand wheel
decor with disc brakes was dog dish hubcaps and trim rings.  Oldsmobile
stylists went into convulsions at the idea of their Ninety Eight wearing dog
dishes.  There was a full wheel cover available as an option on the disc
brake equipped 88s, this was the Toro full wheel cover.  This wheel cover
would not clear the skirts on the Ninety Eight.  Because of the reason the
Ninety Eight was passed for the Disc Brake option for '67.  The problem was
corrected for '68 with the addition of a full wheel cover (non Toro) that
would clear the skirts.

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 21:01:58 -0300
Subject: Re: Alternator hookup 

In a message dated 96-09-10 23:29:10 EDT, you write:

<< Man, you guys didn't have to go getting all dirty tonight...the damn GEN
 light has only been glowing for about, uh, 6 months now (I think). >>

Hey, anything for an important guy like you!  Now, what address can we send
the bills to???

Paul

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 21:04:40 -0300
Subject: Alternator Conversion 

Dave,
There are at least two sizes of internally regulated alternators, the 
standard which I think goes up to 75 amps and the caddy limo one which
goes to 99 (?). I have a rebuilt limo one to run my twin radiator electric 
fans and loud radio, but it is physically bigger which means you buy into
belt alignment and mounting bracket complexities. 

I have solved these, but have never really known whether the bomber 
alternator was killing a gnat with a bazooka or not. If you need advice
on mounting this bomber alternator I can help, I also have a regular
sized one for the smog swap dance I've referred to before on this list.
It bolts right in place of the externally regulated one with no complexties
whatsoever (save for the wiring changes).

Electrically educated gentlemen, what are your thoughts on this?

Overkill or no?
cf

------------------------------

From: JK McCall <jkmccall@clic.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 21:16:07 -0300
Subject: Fisher Body code:

Need help deciphering the following Fisher Body code:

82 05D 3BN37 M 760921
26E  11L 11T
     AM6 CF5 C04 BX2

     NM4
  B1487

This is off my 82 Delta 88 Royale Brougham, what I'm mainly interested 
in is the paint codes (everthing else is just nice to know).  I'm about 
to do a bit of touching up and I would like to have the proper codes.

Thanks in advance

Joe McCall

------------------------------

From: "Peg O'Connor" <peg@grove.ufl.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 21:19:26 -0300
Subject: Re: Wanted to Buy --- CHEAP!

> Geez, you're not askin for much.  A $300-400 car to drive to Pittsburgh?
> (as an ex-PA guy, I'll resist the temptation to ask why leave Florida)  
> How soon do you need it?

I'd like to have it in the next few weeks.  *I'm* not leaving Florida; I'm
just taking the car up there.  :)

> I assume you get the Tampa Tribune up there.  It has a pretty good 
> selection of used cars.  If something you call about looks promising, let 
> me know and I'll see if I can go look it over for you.  
> In the mean time, I'll keep my eyes open.

Good idea; I'll try the Sunday classifieds and let you know if I see
anything.  Thanks for the help -- always appreciated!!!

8)
peg

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 12:51:49 -0300
Subject: Re: Alternator Conversion

At 09:04 PM 9/11/96 -0300, you wrote:
>caddy limo one which
>goes to 99 (?). 

How much do those sell for new??

> If you need advice
>on mounting this bomber alternator I can help, 

I can always use the help..

>I also have a regular
>sized one for the smog swap dance I've referred to before on this list.
>It bolts right in place of the externally regulated one with no complexties
>whatsoever (save for the wiring changes).

You've got to change the alternator for a smog test?  
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Cutlass Supreme  
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 12:55:41 -0300
Subject: Re: Alternator hookup

At 09:01 PM 9/11/96 -0300, you wrote:

>Hey, anything for an important guy like you!

Important??  Me??  Naw, you must have mistaken me for someone else.  

>Now, what address can we send the bills to???

Uhh, my accounts payable department just informed me that we're in the red
(gasp!), so tomorrow I'll be filing chapter 11.  Talk to my lawyers if you
think I owe you money.

;-)
- --
Dave Paulison                  1969 Cutlass Supreme  
Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <yu135008@yorku.ca>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 22:52:49 -0300
Subject: Re: Alternator Conversion

> There are at least two sizes of internally regulated alternators, the 
> standard which I think goes up to 75 amps and the caddy limo one which
> goes to 99 (?). I have a rebuilt limo one to run my twin radiator electric 

I was just looking through some of my service manuals.  Does your
alternator have the long body with AC outlet terminals and external
voltage regulator adjustment?  Around 1980, the base level alternator for
Limousines was rated at 80 amps.  A 100 amp unit was optional on these, as
well as other models.  The HD alternator (long body, etc.), optional on
commercial chassis (Z), is capable of a 145 amp output!!

Kevin Wong

------------------------------

From: Robert Whitaker <whitaker.rob@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 23:14:31 -0300
Subject: Re: w-45, w-46

At 05:03 AM 9/11/96 +0000, you wrote:
>In a message dated 96-09-10 23:53:23 EDT, you write:
>
>Can anybody out there list what was in the 1972 w-45, w-46 option package?
> I know that it was some sort of special performance package.  I read that 1 
> station wagon from '72 had it, and was curious if anybody had seen it, or
> read about it and could pass any info along....
> 
>W Machines
>72 442 W-30
>

- --------
According to my information, from "Oldsmobile Muscle Cars", "Oldsmobile 442
& W-Machines Restoration Guide", and Hurst OCA material:  The W-45 and W-46
options were typically associated with the Hurst/Olds.  In 1968 and 1969 the
W-45 was the non-air H/O and the W-46 was the a/c H/O with differences in
the cam and rear axle ratio.  W-45 was the Rallye 350 option in 1970.  W-45
& W-46 were again H/O options in 1972.  The W-45 was the "normal" H/O and
the W-46 was apparently the W-30 equipped H/O, having a hotter cam and
taller gear - also very rare.

I can only speculate that the some of the deleted items from the assembly
manual (glove box emblem, fender side moldings, and scripts) seem
appropriate for the H/O parts that would be installed in their place.  Also,
the performance items (rear axle ratios and 455 engine) are consistent with
the 72 H/O literature.

The only Olds specific information I have is as follows:

W-45 = Special Pefrormance Package (w/G91)
G-91 = Performance Rear Axle - 3.23

W-46 = Special Pefrormance Package (w/G92 & G80)
G-92 = H.D. Performance Rear Axle - 3.42
G-80 = Anti-Spin Axle

I'll continue searching for more information.


Robert Whitaker
69 H/O 455

------------------------------

From: Katana72@aol.com
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 23:36:17 -0300
Subject: Re: Needing Mondello info 

I've got some mondello info. Somewhat limited, old, and only applies to
Oldsmobiles.

Katana72                       It's NOT your father's Oldsmobile
     Hastings, MN

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 18:41:18 -0300
Subject: Re: Found in rec.autos.misc newsgroup.

Tom Lentz wrote:
>=20
>      Looking for someone (preferably in the Chicago area) who owns a 19=
70
>      Oldsmobile Cutlass convertible 442 W-30. The Danbury Mint would li=
ke
>      to
>      take pictures and measure it for modeling purposes and will pay
>      $150.00
>      for same.
>=20
>      Please e-mail only to: tchris231@aol.com (not the above address)
>=20
>      Thank you!


My, what an honor.  The Danbury is the beIt of the Franklin//Danbury big=20
2.  I hope that one of you guys get to take them up on it.  I'll split=20
the $150 with you.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama=20
- --=20
MZ=90

------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei-2@mail.idt.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 23:51:38 -0300
Subject: Re: '67 Olds technical manual needed. 

At 10:17 AM 9/11/96 -0300, you wrote:
>
> This one is specific to Cutlass's & 442s.
>It concentrates on schematics, both electrical and vacuum.  Also shows such
>things as how to take apart the dash, etc.  I got that at a swap meet for
>about $25... wish I could remember specifically what it was called.
>
It was called an assembly manual.

 >Dave Isho --- davei-2@mail.idt.net
     >67 Cutlass CS Convertible
     

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 23:57:21 -0300
Subject: Re: Found in rec.autos.misc newsgroup. 

In a message dated 96-09-11 17:20:49 EDT, you write:

<< Do you know if they have any '69s?  If so, where do I get info about TFC?
 
 Jeff Zeilmann
 SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
 '68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible
  ----------
 Have you seen the die casts from TFC(toys for collectors).  I think they
 are quality repos except for the 72 H/O.  for the 72, they use a 70 front 
 end,
 
  >>

sorry just 5 different 70's and the one 72,  I have a catalog and I have to 
find it, just give me a day or two 

W MACHINES

------------------------------

From: Spud <spud@kudonet.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 23:59:13 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile ID Book 

At 11:16 PM 9/9/96 -0300, you wrote:
>In a message dated 96-09-09 00:45:05 EDT, you write:
>
><< OK.  You'll need a fixed font to read this correctly.
> 
> ST73 3BN57LAN351161     BDY
> TR  326      81  A      PNT
>   12B A65
> 
>Well, lets see.  ST73 means its a Series Type 73 (1973).
>3BN57 means its a (3) Olds, (B) B body, (N) Delta 88 Royale, (57) Hardtop
>Coupe
>LAN means it was built in Lansing (the best ones were)
>351161 is the sequence number for the body shell
>TR 326 is the trim #. This number doesn't match any of the numbers I have in
>the sales books.  All my numbers are 2 digits.  I think the key # here is the
>6.  I show a code 16 Beige all Morocceen (vinyl) trim. The 1 designates the
>vinyl, the 6  is the beige color.  This was for ordering purposes only.  Your
>326 code is probably what designates a beige vinyl seat for a Royale Coupe,
>as opposed to a beige vinyl seat for a Custom Cruiser or a Ninety Eight or a
>plain Delta or a Vista Cruiser which all used the code 16 beige vinyl trim.
>81 A PNT is the paint and vinyl top code. (81) Honey Beige paint, (A) White
>vinyl top.
>12B is the built date. (12) December, (B) 2nd week of the month.  Probably
>1972.
>A65 is the option code for the Custom Sport Front Bench Seat w/center armrest
>and bright chrome moldings (std on Royale).
>
>So how did I do?
>
>Paul

Pretty good.  Although, I think that Roger M. Borlase (post below) had the
color right: bamboo.  At least, it resembles bamboo more than any thing I'd
call honey; but, there may not be much difference between the two.  You did
break it down into its basic elements a little more, for which I am
grateful.  It would be nice to know for certain what the trim code deciphers
into, but the car did have a beige vinyl trim glued to a chromed carrier
(glue now failing miserably).  You're on the money for the front seat and
the arm rest (sport...that's a hoot).


Roger's analysis:
'73 model year.  Built In Lansing, Mi.  351161 is the unit number from that 
plant.  Trim code is 326.  Built 2nd week in December?  81 is Lower Body 
color.  A is upper body color.  N57 ia Delta 88 Royal Hardtop Coupe.  81 was 
Bamboo in '72.  A is white single-tone exterior color code.
3B is Oldsmobile B-body.



Spud     "Fart proudly."
'86 FXST   --Benjamin Franklin
'73 Delta 88
'79 LeBaron

------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei-2@mail.idt.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 23:54:30 -0300
Subject: Re: Axle Bearing 

At 12:50 PM 9/11/96 -0300, you wrote:
>
>Once you remove the brake drum, you can remove the axle by taking off the
>four bolts which hold the axle in place. You will have to rotate the end
>of the axle which has one oversize hole precisely for removing the axle
>bolts. You'll need a socket extension to get at the bolts and possibly a 
slide 
>hammer to remove the axle. I think the bearing is press in.
>
>My experience is only disassembling in search of rear end gears. I have 
>never replace a my own bearings.  Just a caveat.
>cf
>
Then you will need a bearing separator to remove the old bearing. If you are
careful, you can use an air hammer. After this is done, press on the new
bearing, or have it pressed on. I just finished this job on my 67.

 >Dave Isho --- davei-2@mail.idt.net
     >67 Cutlass CS Convertible
     

------------------------------

From: Spud <spud@kudonet.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 23:59:20 -0300
Subject: Battery FAQ 

If anyone's interested, I pulled down an unofficial FAQ from
rec.autos.makers.chrysler that looks OK, though I haven't had time to go
over it.  It's long (around 42K, I think), but if your e-mail can handle it,
I'll forward it to whomever.  If enough decide they want it, it would be
eaqsier for me to send it to the whole list.

Let me know.



Spud     "Fart proudly."
'86 FXST   --Benjamin Franklin
'73 Delta 88
'79 LeBaron

------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei-2@mail.idt.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 00:03:15 -0300
Subject: Re: Alternator conversion 

At 12:01 PM 9/13/96 -0300, you wrote:
>When I convert to an internally regulated alterantor, what kind of car do I
>need to get one from?  I need a core, too, I guess.  I want to get a new one
>at the local parts-monger store (probably Pep Boys).  I don't want to pay a
>core charge for an old one (unless, of course, it costs more to buy a core
>than to pay the core charge).
>
>Thanks!
>--
>Dave Paulison                  1969 Cutlass Supreme  
>Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
>dpauliso@metrolink.net
>
Dave I just bought one from my parts place and it was only $40. And it comes
with a warranty. It listed as a late 70's Cutlass part.

 >Dave Isho --- davei-2@mail.idt.net
     >67 Cutlass CS Convertible
     

------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei-2@mail.idt.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 00:03:23 -0300
Subject: Re: Alternator conversion 

At 12:01 PM 9/13/96 -0300, you wrote:
>When I convert to an internally regulated alterantor, what kind of car do I
>need to get one from?  I need a core, too, I guess.  I want to get a new one
>at the local parts-monger store (probably Pep Boys).  I don't want to pay a
>core charge for an old one (unless, of course, it costs more to buy a core
>than to pay the core charge).
>
>Thanks!
>--
>Dave Paulison                  1969 Cutlass Supreme  
>Melbourne, Florida             1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
>dpauliso@metrolink.net
>
Dave I just bought one from my parts place and it was only $40. And it comes
with a warranty. It listed as a late 70's Cutlass part.

 >Dave Isho --- davei-2@mail.idt.net
     >67 Cutlass CS Convertible
     

------------------------------

From: DrkSole@aol.com
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 00:08:17 -0300
Subject: Re: Need rrDoor for 67Delta884drht 

In a message dated 96-09-11 20:20:44 EDT, you write:

>Subj:	Re: Need rrDoor for 67Delta884drht
>Date:	96-09-11 20:20:44 EDT
>From:	PHartlieb@aol.com
>Sender:	oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>Reply-to:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>To:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>
>In a message dated 96-09-11 00:29:55 EDT, you write:
>
><<  A 98 door will also fit, can anyone >>
>
>No it won't.  Ninety Eight doors have a squared off notch at bottom to make
>room for the fender skirt.  Delta 88 doors have an arch to match the wheel
>opening because there is no skirt.  Doors from a Delta 88, Delta Custom or
Dy
>(whoops!) Delmont 88 will interchange, but the trim will be different.
>
>Paul

Thanks, was told by an old guy who lives at/owns a yard 30 miles West of Des
Moines that the 98 door would fit.  
DrkSole
73 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 19:08:52 -0300
Subject: Re: Vinyl dyeing

stevew@atsmail.gc.lucent.com wrote:
> 
> Dan:
> 
> Have you considered going to the auto paint store?
> 
> I've done armrests and door skins with vinyl paints from the
> store that sells auto body paint systems.
> 
> steve
> 
> >I'm getting ready to dye the dash and a-pillar trim.  Does anybody have
> >any hints/tips?  Also, the only places I can find that has the vinyl die
> >prep is Eastwood ($7) or Year One ($14).  However, Eastwood does not
> >have the correct color of dye.  Would it be wise to mix and match the
> >prep and dye?
> >
> >TIA,
> >
> >Dan
> >
> >Dan,

Not only is it a good alternative to go to an auto paint store for the 
vinyl dye which can be custom matched there to your part, but you can 
get the other supplies needed also.  Prep-Sol is a very good degreaser 
used after you clean w/the ordinary houselond cleaner so that it doesn't 
have dirt, oil & wax all over it.  After cleaning, good old medicinal 
alcohol is a very good prep just prior to the dying process.

I paint just like doing metal.  Several light coats w/a final wetter 
one.  Be careful as this stuff is thin & will actually run.  Don't get 
it too thick as it flakes easily then.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 00:20:01 -0300
Subject: 80 442 

I found a magazine article of the 80 442 that I have in my possesion.

The article is called "An Olds Legend Is Still Around". This article
was released by Autoweek  January 7th 1980.


W Machines

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 19:22:32 -0300
Subject: Re: 70 Hood info.

> >Hello all! I've only been on this list for about 4 days now and am loving
> >every minute of it! I'll guess I'll give a short story of my
> >70 Olds Cutlass S as an intorduction.
> >
> >I bought it back in 1992 for $1500 with a missing shift rod from the 4
> >speed trans. It had a factory 455 with a 4 speed in it. I wonder if this is
> 
> Was that originally a 2-bbl car? The 455 2-bbl was offered across the board
> in the '70 Cutlass line until feb. of 1970. I always like the non-442
> big-block Cutlasses and Supremes.
> 
> >a rare combination in a Cutlass S since I haven't seen a whole lot of
> >factory 455 4-speeds that weren't 442's. 
> 
> >looking for a  W-30 hood and need to know which year W-30 hoods are the
> >same as my 70'? I've heard that the 70'-72's are all the same. I look
> 
> The '70 hood is different from the '71-'72 (grille opening is different). I
> have heard that the '69 hood is the same, though (can't verify that for
> sure). There seem to be two kinds of W-30 hoods out there:
> * Affordable, but cheaply made and worthless for the street.
> * Good quality (or original), but completely unaffordable.
> 
> >forward to the good info and advice I'll get on this list!
> >
> >Dave Holgate
> >(am435@detroit.freenet.org)
> 
> Nice to have you here. What is the engine code on your car?
> 
> -----------
> - Bob Barry


Bob,

It might be so that a '69 hood will fit, but then it won't be a W25 
hood.  The '69's didn't get a fiberglass scooped hood.  The W30's got 
the scoops under the bumper as did the '68's.

I didn't know that the factory built 445 non 442 Cutlass S's.  Of course 
the SX was built as a 455.

I have a 1968 442 convertible w/under bumper scoops.  Those '70's are 
mouth watering things.  Congratulations on a nice car.  Welcome to the 
list.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: DESIMONEP@aol.com
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 00:30:30 -0300
Subject: Re: Needing Mondello info 

In a message dated 96-09-11 16:47:44 EDT, you write:

> Ask your performance questions here. Their are many people here with
>  performance info and can tell you were to pick up parts cheaper than 
>  Mondello.  Just ask or even e-mail me personally and I will help you the 
>  best I can without a hastle unlike Mr. Joe

Well, I'm about to go feet first into a 455 project motor, are you saying
that Mondello is overpriced and/or hard to deal with? I'd like to know,
because I'm needing a block, heads, and other items, and I'm not sure where
to start. This is the first Olds motor I'm doing and would like some advice.
I need a 1968 455 block and (C?) heads. Also, anyone know where I can find a
forged crank? Any advice appreciated!! Thanks,

Phil De Simone
desimonep@aol.com
1968 Olds Cutlass "S" Convertible

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 00:32:54 -0300
Subject: Re: Vinyl dyeing 

Remember back in June when I was screaming for a Saddle Dash Pad.
Well I ended up Painting my dash pad.  We have a place here in town
called Finish Master that deals with Dupont and Glasorit paints and such.
I took them the dash pad and said please match the color of the vinyl on 
the back side of the dash pad.  Only because it is not exposed to sunlight
and you will get the right color.  Well the paint they made up was perfect.
It is very thin, about 10% color and base and 90% thinner.  Anyway I put this

in my spraygun straight after mixing.  I painted the pad and my console in my

72 W-30.  It came out perfect.  To clean the pad and console and also
glovebox
door, I used Lacquer thinner.  I sprayed on light coats of the paint and it
drys
very fast but it turned out great.  Everybody that looks at the dash pad and 
console think it is original due to great color matching and a great product.
To get in the right ballpark of color, I took the interior number off the
cowl tag
which in this case was 949 and then Finish Master took it from their.  I
personelly
prefer the Duplicolor paints compared to PPG.



W Machines    been there and done it   72 442 W-30  repainter Dash Pad
ect....

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 00:44:18 -0300
Subject: Re: 80 442

Mark is there anyway I can get a photocopy of that? I would pay all
expenses. What a surprise. I wondered if something was out there magazine
wise. I was guessing not seeing that even Oldsmobile has no factory photos
of the car. My car should be up on Bryceman's web page soon. I sent all the
stuff to him to post it.  Thanks again for letting me know about the article.

At 12:20 AM 9/12/96 -0300, WMACHINES@AOL.COM wrote:
>I found a magazine article of the 80 442 that I have in my possesion.
>
>The article is called "An Olds Legend Is Still Around". This article
>was released by Autoweek  January 7th 1980.
>
>
>W Machines
>
>
>

________________________________________________________
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) or (jlabay@kent.edu)
Grad Student in Sports Administration at Kent State University
1988 Iroc Z/28	1974 Buick Riveria Stage I 455
1980 4-4-2 W-30	1975 Hurst/Olds W-25
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ----------------------

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 00:49:19 -0300
Subject: Re: Needing Mondello info 

In a message dated 96-09-11 23:38:18 EDT, you write:

<< Well, I'm about to go feet first into a 455 project motor, are you saying
 that Mondello is overpriced and/or hard to deal with? I'd like to know,
 because I'm needing a block, heads, and other items, and I'm not sure where
 to start. This is the first Olds motor I'm doing and would like some advice.
 I need a 1968 455 block and (C?) heads. Also, anyone know where I can find a
 forged crank? Any advice appreciated!! Thanks,
  >>
Yes Mondello is overpriced.  What type of performance are you looking at.
Are you wanting to drag race on a regular basis or just building to cruise
and 
occasionaly take to the strip for some fun.  The next thing is you need to
set 
a goal of how fast and how much money you want to spend.  Performance 
does equal dollars but there are different stages.  For example, I have spent

probably 3000.00 on my engine build, but I run 12.47's at 108.63 mph but 
is also streetable.  let me know and I will help you further.

W MACHINES
72 442 W-30

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 00:55:13 -0300
Subject: Re: 80 442 

In a message dated 96-09-11 23:46:51 EDT, you write:

<< ark is there anyway I can get a photocopy of that? I would pay all
 expenses. What a surprise. I wondered if something was out there magazine
 wise. I was guessing not seeing that even Oldsmobile has no factory photos
 of the car. My car should be up on Bryceman's web page soon. I sent all the
 stuff to him to post it.  Thanks again for letting me know about the
article.
  >>
No problem Jason, I will take it to work and photocopy it, but I need your 
address, also point of interest I will check out my Literature connection 
for an original copy.  I will be visiting him in about two weeks.

W MACHINES (Mark Prince)
72 442 W-30

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 00:56:34 -0300
Subject: Re: Battery FAQ

On Wed, 11 Sep 1996, Spud wrote:

> If anyone's interested, I pulled down an unofficial FAQ from
> rec.autos.makers.chrysler that looks OK, though I haven't had time to go
> over it.  It's long (around 42K, I think), but if your e-mail can handle it,
> I'll forward it to whomever.  If enough decide they want it, it would be
> eaqsier for me to send it to the whole list.
> 
> Let me know.

Spud,

Please don't forward a file that size to the list. Causes all kinds of 
problems....

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: pnelson@cyberport.net (Nelson)
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 00:34:08 -0300
Subject: Parts 

I am parting out a 67 olds delta 88 for a stock car and will make a real
deal for any of the stuff removed.  Also some trim and most of the windos
from a 66 Olds 98(all except front an righ rear)
Thank you,
Kenneth

------------------------------

From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 00:00:00 -0300
Subject: Re: Needing Mondello info

I called them today, and requested a catalog.  They want $9.00 bucks for it. 
 Ha!  I only need it for the sole purpose of doing some price and part 
availability comparisons, and to see what they have to offer.  I've heard 
good and bad things about them, but to try to stick ya for nine bucks right 
off the bat is not the way to win customers over.  Especially when Year One, 
Kanter, Edelbrock, Brothers, and Fusick all send a free catalog.  And Year 
One is perhaps the most polite group of people I have ever dealt with.  I am 
open for comments.

Jeff Zeilmann
SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
'68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 01:08:04 -0300
Subject: Re: Autronic, uh Guidematic 

At 08:02 PM 9/11/96 -0400, you wrote:
[snip]
>Yeah, they had discs in '67, but only on the Toro and 88, not on the Ninety
>Eight.  The reason the Ninety Eight was slighted is because the stand wheel
>decor with disc brakes was dog dish hubcaps and trim rings.  Oldsmobile
>stylists went into convulsions at the idea of their Ninety Eight wearing dog
>dishes.  There was a full wheel cover available as an option on the disc
>brake equipped 88s, this was the Toro full wheel cover.  This wheel cover
>would not clear the skirts on the Ninety Eight.  Because of the reason the
>Ninety Eight was passed for the Disc Brake option for '67.  The problem was
>corrected for '68 with the addition of a full wheel cover (non Toro) that
>would clear the skirts.

Wow, it took them another entire year to engineer a _wheelcover_! There must
have been about a dozen committees at work in order to produce *that*
wonder; probably made the situations in "Dilbert" look utterly rational...

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Limited Landau Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 01:12:43 -0300
Subject: Re: 70 Hood info. 

At 06:22 PM 9/11/96 -0400, you wrote:
[snip]
>I didn't know that the factory built 445 non 442 Cutlass S's.  Of course 
>the SX was built as a 455.

Once GM allowed them to, Olds made the L33 2-bbl 455 an option on the
Cutlass line, up until Feb. of 1970 (so about six months). Then I believe
the 455 was an option on the '72 Cutlass line, apart from the 442 option
(which was no longer a separate model). So 1971 would be the only year that
the 455 was only available in the 442 or SX.

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Limited Landau Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: DrkSole@aol.com
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 01:24:57 -0300
Subject: Re: Parts 

In a message dated 96-09-12 00:16:26 EDT, you write:

>Subj:	Parts
>Date:	96-09-12 00:16:26 EDT
>From:	pnelson@cyberport.net (Nelson)
>Sender:	oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>Reply-to:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>To:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>
>I am parting out a 67 olds delta 88 for a stock car and will make a real
>deal for any of the stuff removed.  Also some trim and most of the windos
>from a 66 Olds 98(all except front an righ rear)
>Thank you,
>Kenneth

A 4 or 2 door? am/fm?  clock? Just wondering what parts it has.. thanks.
DrkSole
73 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: sbento@mecn.mass.edu
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 01:28:05 -0300
Subject: Re: Needing Mondello info

On Thu, 12 Sep 1996 WMACHINES@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 96-09-11 23:38:18 EDT, you write:
> 
> << Well, I'm about to go feet first into a 455 project motor, are you saying
>  that Mondello is overpriced and/or hard to deal with? I'd like to know,
>  because I'm needing a block, heads, and other items, and I'm not sure where
>  to start. This is the first Olds motor I'm doing and would like some advice.
>  I need a 1968 455 block and (C?) heads. Also, anyone know where I can find a
>  forged crank? Any advice appreciated!! Thanks,
>   >>
> Yes Mondello is overpriced.  What type of performance are you looking at.
> Are you wanting to drag race on a regular basis or just building to cruise
> and 
> occasionaly take to the strip for some fun.  The next thing is you need to
> set 
> a goal of how fast and how much money you want to spend.  Performance 
> does equal dollars but there are different stages.  For example, I have spent
> 
> probably 3000.00 on my engine build, but I run 12.47's at 108.63 mph but 
> is also streetable.  let me know and I will help you further.
> 
> W MACHINES
> 72 442 W-30
> 
>
I started my first 455 rebuild about 7 years ago and I was in a similar 
situation. One of the best places I found to get help was at the local 
dragstrip!! Just talk to anyone with a strong running 455 and they will 
just about tell you everything you ever wanted to know about the 455.

Mondello is a little high on pricing, however his products do seem to be 
of high quality and every nasty 455 I have ever seen has had some of his 
parts on it.

One way that I saved a lot of money on my buildup was buying used parts. 
I purchased my Edelbrock Torker intake for $40, my C heads for $25 and 
the complete J head, smog motor for $75. also go a nice Toro oil pan for 
$30  etc.....

Just remember quality machine work is the key to a powerful, reliable 
engine so plan on spending some money there.


Steve,
71 Cutlass S 455
93 Mustang LX 5.0

------------------------------

From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 00:36:00 -0300
Subject: Re: Needing Mondello info

Hi Mark,
I was the one who posted the ? about Mondello, and am in a similar situation 
as the person who sent the message concerning the 455.  I am rebuilding a 
350, and it has been about 10 years since I rebuilt an engine.  I am scoping 
out who and where to buy from, and advice on plan of attack.  I would like 
to squeeze a few extra horses out of the 350 I have, and give it a little 
extra UMMPF.  I already have my mind kinda set on a Edelbrock Performer 
intake, and a Holley 650 to top it off, but could use some advice on cam, 
pistons, and anything else you can suggest.  The '69 442 I used to have had 
an ISKY cam, and TRW forged Aluminum Pistons, and ran about the same times 
as your 72 (It had a 455).  Since I just pulled the engine a couple weeks 
ago, and am about to begin tearing it down, I am open for suggestions.

<<spent probably 3000.00 on my engine build, but I run 12.47's at 108.63 mph 
but
<<is also streetable.  let me know and I will help you further.

>>I'd also be interested to hear more about your 442.  Sounds choice.  Tell 
me more.

Jeff Zeilmann
SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
'68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 02:15:55 -0300
Subject: Alt. Conversion 

If memory serves, the limo alternator was 100+ bucks rebuilt, but the ones
I've had in 9 years (2 of 'em) have lasted just fine. I'm on my second one
during that period now. 

To mount it what I do is use the standard passnger side alternator mount,
but I cut a rectangular piece out of it to allow free play for the alt.
to rotate into the belt (as it should). YOu have to grind out about an
inch long X half inch deep piece from a web on the outer side of the 
top of this lower bracket. I use a really long bolt with tons (+tons)
of washers to steady the alt in the right place (front/rear), then 
tighten the washers and bolt after I've got it tight against the betl
on the inner most water pump slot (the one closest to the block).

On the top side I also use the standard passenger side alternator bracket,
but I use longer bolt into the intake manifold and shim again with washers.
Don't strip the manifold threads (!). Basically what I do is to spread the
additional strain as best as possible between the lower and upper mounting
points. 

I push the motor up to 4500 rpms now +again to blow the carbon out and in 
all that time, no belts have ever jumped off. Again mostly what I've done
is to make the alternator space larger, by shimming and grinding enough
space in the brackets to allow it to physically fit. I've had good luck,
but I also keep a spare lower bracket and check tension regularly. 

I change the alt. for smog since I have to put the smog pump on the pass.
side to get it through the test. During these times, I have the alt on
the driver's side, inboard from the power steering pump. Where it was 
originally. Hope that helps. If you need further, better description,
don't be shy. This was written after more than a couple pints of microbrew.
cf

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 02:20:40 -0300
Subject: Big Alternator 

I'd have to look at the stamping on top of the unit, but I think, now 
that you mention it, that it is the 100amp unit. It is definitely for
commercial use in a limo. That's why I kicked down the extra cash. With
all the electrical accessories I've added, I'm pretty sure the factory
didn't contemplate these kinds of loads in 1966. 

I should also add that I run a parallel output wire, probably 4 guage
to the junction block to keep from overheating the factory smaller 
wire. Big red thing with beefy terminals to be sure that juice isn't
frying stuff. 

So, yeah, I think I've got the 100amp unit. But my damn high beams with
halogens installed still seem to cut out when I run them more than 4 
minutes at a time. Any ideas on that one?
cf

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 02:25:42 -0300
Subject: 98/88 Door Fit 

My vote goes with the guys on this list re the idea of swapping 98 and
88 rear doors. They had some very real body differences but most
of the mech. stuff swaps.
cf

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 02:41:14 -0300
Subject: Mondello 

Haven't worked with him, but have his catalog and he's indeed pricey. The big
however is that he is a specialist and for those really looking to get the last
.0005 horsepower out of their Olds, he's probably got knowledge no one else 
has. I'm open for comments too. 

Also his catalog has what is to my untrained eye way, way deeper detail on 
what olds parts work well with what motor combinations and what won't work.
Long run this is probably saving some folks out there (the .0005 set) some
real cash.

When I toted up my wish list on excel it topped $10 grand. Ha! is right, but
don't deny that he probably has learned some hard to quantify valuewise stuff
in his 20-x years (30-x years?) of working on olds motors. 

As we've talked about these are not ch*vies, exclusivity has it's upside and
its downside. I'm not about to blow big shekels on my motor, but for those
people who can and want to, I thinks it's o.k. that there's someone there
to serve that market. Just ain't for me, I'm a street guy with a 98. A
blown nitro 4 bolt main, dry sump, Toro pan, lumpy cam, smog illegal, fuel
injected would just be kind of funny on that car. 

My 40 shekels
cf

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #297
********************************
 
