To:	oldsmobile-digest @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET @ ABTLAB
Date:	08/30/96 07:54:47 PM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #284


oldsmobile-digest          Friday, 30 August 1996       Volume 01 : Number 284


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Sam Watson <smw@hal-pc.org>
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 21:44:24 -0300
Subject: Gasoline for '67 Olds 88

Does it make much difference what grade of gasoline I put in my Super 
Rocket?

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 15:00:03 -0300
Subject: Re: Overfill bottle

Esko Ilola wrote:
> 
> The inside can be cleaned by putting sand and
> some non-foaming washing agent into it. Dish-
> washer agent is likely to do it well.
> 
> 
> Hope this method cleans your bottle. If not
> you should put your bucks into a new one. I hope
> that you can get one because the stains are
> guite often, how would I say, permanent.
> --
> 
> * Esko Ilola                                 *
> 

Esco,

Most everyone is advising a new one, but a few of us cannot get new ones 
for our older cars such as my 1970 Buick GS.  Thanks very much for the 
advice.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 20:17:56 -0300
Subject: What Gas? 

In your 67 98 your super rocket was expecting a steady diet of premium
since it was born. Now that lead is gone and you may have rebuilt you
might get away with less depending on pinging, knock, pistons etc.
but the SuperRocket 425 wanted premium as designed.
cf

------------------------------

From: "Dal Allan" <dal_allan@mcimail.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 21:28:05 -0300
Subject: DOT_5_conversion 

Lloyd said: 

> Silicone brake fluid equipped cars that I have driven have a spongier, 
> softer brake feel than regular brake fluid.  Braking distances have been 
> reported as being longer.  

Blame that on the installer and bleeding (or lack thereof). It is far easier 
to get bubbles into DOT 5 than get them out. You MUST let the fluid flow 
gently into the master cylinder to prevent bubbles from entering the system. 
A properly bled DOT 5 is at least as hard a pedal as a DOT 3/4. The Avanti 
is a mixture of parts (GM master cylinder/looks like a Ford booster/Bendix 
disc brakes).  

    The DOT 5 76 Avanti II has a harder pedal than 
    the DOT 5 67 Olds Cutlass which has a harder pedal than 
    the DOT 3 72 Buick GS which has a harder pedal than 
    the DOT 3 88 Buick Estate Wagon. 

The differences are almost negligible, but they are real. It did take a 
second bleed and another quart of DOT 5 to get the Olds pedal hard, the 
first time around it was adequate but a tad soft. What I disliked most was 
the feeling that it was taking more distance to brake. I never ran a 
quantitative test so cannot prove that it made a difference, but the car 
sure left me feeling like it was taking longer to stop than it should. 

> I have also heard that the Dot 5 fluid isn't 
> always compatible w/rubber parts in your old brake system & leaks develop.  

I've never seen a leak where new seals and hoses are used. I don't believe 
the condition is caused by DOT 5, but is a pre-existing condition in rubber 
seals and hoses which DOT 3 did not leak from (and have been re-used to save 
a few $). You have to be wary of connections as well, they require an extra 
tug on the wrench to tighten them right up. DOT 5 has the same effect on the 
brake system as Mobil 1 does on a motor; leaks come from places where there 
was no trace with regular oil. 

>              Studebaker people complain of destroyed brake light switches 
> at regular intervals (they are mounted on the end of the master cylinder 
> as Mustangs are).  

I've read about this also, but have no experience with it. 

Studebaker people complain about a lot of things, many of which I put down 
to buying NOS parts which are >30 years old. I'm one of them people, and am 
amazed at the expectations they have from older technology that has been 
sitting on the shelf being frozen in winter and scaled in summer at Newman & 
Altman. BTW, Studebaker made 'almost great' cars, there are a few things 
which should have been engineered out decades before (like through the floor 
brakes with under-the-floor master cylinders in the 1964 Gran Turismo and 
the abysmal add-on Bendix power steering on all models including my Avanti.

>         That flushing business is tough & many suggest that 
> you start over w/a complete brake rebuild & not have to go through that. 

I second this thought. 

> If you haven't noticed, the price of Dot 5 is a little high also.

The economics average out very quickly. I haven't had to change the fluid in 
my Avanti since 1978 due to deterioration of any brake components, never had 
to do a cylinder rebuild, never had to redo calipers. If you don't drive 
your car regularly, and especially if you have to over-winter it as the guys 
up North do, it can pay for itself very quickly. 

> Most people have found that there are pluses & minuses to any brake 
> fluid available.  I have elected to stay w/the highest grade regular 
> fluid.  There hasn't been any major problem so far.

I've never bothered with DOT 5 in any of our everyday drivers. Unless your 
car sits regularly with no miles traveled, the heat generated by braking 
when driving around keeps the moisture low enough that corrosion in the 
cylinders is not a problem. If the GS ever has to go into surgery and be 
laid up for a while for restoration, the brakes will be on the list to get 
done first. That way the lines won't corrode while the car is laid up. 

Northern California is very gentle on our cars, but if I lived up north and 
had to face putting my cars into hibernation for a few months I'd be looking 
at DOT 5 seriously like Greg is doing. 

Dal 

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 21:42:37 -0300
Subject: Olds Club of Florida Meeting 

To all the folks on the list from Florida, the next meeting of the Olds Club
of Florida will be next Tuesday at 7:00PM at Holler Oldsmobile, 1970 Semoran
Blvd in Winter Park. Semoran is also SR 436.  Holler is just North of Aloma
Ave. on 436.  Aloma is about 2.5 miles North of SR 50. It's on the right
heading North and the Olds dealership sign is easy to see. (Like duh, it
better be! :-))

If you need more specific directions please call either (407)678-1717 (Holler
Olds) or (407)647-6178 (OCF).

FYI, we rotate meetings around the 7 Greater Orlando Oldsmobile Dealers
(GOOD, cute huh?).  The dealers usually provide some goodies like sandwiches
and/or snacks and drinks.

We usually have about 40 members attending and they bring 20-30 classic
Oldsmobiles for a mini show.

Hope to see some of you there.

Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL
U.S. FDA Regulatory Affairs   (407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 21:42:42 -0300
Subject: '70 SX Convertible 

 >>In the September JWO that came today I note with extreme interest the 
>>following:

>>"1970 Cutlass SX convertible, yellow with black top and interior, AC, PS, 
>>tilt, PW,, PS, PDL, 455 4V, Auto. $5,900. Mike Izzo. (818) 343-2656."

Greg B wrote: 

>>It is my 
>>dream car (except maybe for the color scheme, but who cares?), >>

Oh, are we starting the yellow is ugly thread again!  Watch it Greg, that
describes our very '70 SX. :-)  Sebring Yellow, black top and black custom
cloth insert interior.  Vinyl seats (any color) or rather uncomfortable in a
convertible in warm weather.  For the purists, the pattern is identical to
original.  I tell the "correctness" inquisitors that the interior was special
order and that 37 cars came this way.   ;-)  They just look confused (the
very objective) and usually walk away.

But you're right, the SX's are neat cars.  Ours rides and behaves
beautifully.

Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL
U.S. FDA Regulatory Affairs   (407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 21:42:45 -0300
Subject: DOT 5 Brake Fluid Conversion 

Greg B.:

When I restored the brakes on the '67 I converted to DOT 5 silicone brake
fluid.  So this does not answer your specific question since this was a
complete rebuild.

However, you might be interested that I have been using this for about 13
years now.

It has worked fine for me.  Since it isn't hygroscopic, I haven't bled or
flushed the system in all that time.  My DOT 3 equipped cars have the fluid
flushed every year.  Saving this chore alone has made it worth for me and
brakes works as well as ever and all told, I drive 4 different cars.

The only thing I don't like about the DOT 5 stuff is that it is seems to be
affected by heat.  I use headers and the hotter the lines get the harder the
pedal gets.  I mean like _real_ hard.

The cars stops just as hard it is just distracting.  I purchased a disk brake
conversion setup at the Atlanta swap meet.  I plan to keep the DOT 5 stuff
but this time route the lines as far as possible away from the headers and
heat.

I have read that this stuff is supposed to be compatible with DOT 3.  Others
have posted that they are not compatible.  I think the truth is somewhere in
between. They are compatible in that you won't get any nasty chemical
reactions or the like.  But they will not mix.  So the DOT 3 that's left in
the system will stay there and still absorb water and still rust your piston
bores.

Putting a new kit in the rear wheel cylinders isn't a bad idea at any time
you undertake a major brake project, same with the calipers.  I will probably
flush the "new" swap meet calipers with a solvent before installing. Assuming
they are A-OK of course.  Otherwise it's down to the discount auto store for
replacements. (The conversion donor was a 71-2 so don't post how rare the
67-67 4 piston calipers are.)

The question is, what solvent can flush a brake system of DOT 3 fluid?

Anybody have an idea?  Alcohol?  Laquer thinner?

As far as I am concerned I have had no significant problems with DOT 5 fluid
for a 13 year test, so I will keep it.  Arguments pro and con on this will
probably be similar to the synthetic vs regular oils.

Let the discussion begin!

Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL
U.S. FDA Regulatory Affairs   (407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 21:42:40 -0300
Subject: Dry ice, frozen gasoline, etc. 

Dry ice is forzen CO2, carbon dioxide.  According to my Handbook of Chemistry
and Physics, 48th edition, 1967-68 (ancient I know but so am I and physical
characteristics don't change much over 30 years), the _boiling_ point of
Carbon Dioxide is -78.5 degrees centigrade.

Dry ice is obviously a whole lot "colder" than H2O ice.

Once upon a time, long, long ago, I tried the cool-can bit. Starting with
refrigerator obtained ice, next to dry ice and finally to dry ice and
alcohol!  The latter is, I think, like -200 degrees F.or even colder.  Hey,
you know the old hot rod addage, "If more is good, too much is just right!"

Anyway, I don't know if I froze the gasoline but I _definitely_ froze the
carburetor.  The weather was a nice hot, humid Georgia Saturday at the outlaw
Yellow River dragstrip outside Atlanta.  The exterior of the carb bowl was
white with frozen condensation - and so were the venturis!  Looked like a
Canadian snow storm!  (No flame intended to our Northern relatives.)  The
carb was literally frozen closed with condensed moisture.  The car died in
the pits and even after the time it took to take off the air filter and look
down inside the carb, it was _still_ frozen --- shut!.

After the Frosty Freeze Q-Jet Incident I stuck with running air temperature
fuel. :-)

The theory is that a cool can lowers the temp of the gas making it more
dense.  While this is true, it also means that to take advantage of this the
carb must be adjusted to this denser fuel charge.  On a dedicated race car
this is OK but for a street driven ride if you tune for one you have trouble
with the other.

The newer computer controlled cars might take up the slack providing you
don't go overboard with dry ice and alcohol.  

Anyone have experience with newer computer controlled cars and cool cans?

Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL
U.S. FDA Regulatory Affairs   (407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: Frank Boerger <103454.317@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 21:56:45 -0300
Subject: FW: FW: Redline Water Wetter: experience/sources?

On 8/29/96, Mike Frederick wrote:

>And another question:

>Has anybody every removed the thermostat from a vehicle and had the car 
>overheat due to the lack of a thermostat?  I know I've done it in years 
>gone by but never had an overheating problem because of it.  Opinions?

Exactamuhndo !!!  

If that's all it would take to raise the outbound coolant temperature, I would
have just removed the t-stat each winter in Ohio instead of using that dreaded
cardboard in front of the radiator on -20F days gone by....Man, am I liking
Florida !!!

P.S.  I guess it's time I came clean and revealed to everyone that my mom's
maiden name is K-A-L-K-H-O-F-F....yeah, it's true !!

Frank Boerger
'68 Cutlass Convertible/'68 coupe for parts

------------------------------

From: Frank Boerger <103454.317@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 21:56:41 -0300
Subject: FW: Re[2]: FW: Redline Water Wetter: experience/sources?

on 8/29/96, Bill Shinko wrote:
>I haven't been following this thread, but I did notice your question 
>as to "...but how could a flow be too great?"  Just did some reading 
>about this recently, so if you don't mind, here's my 2 cents:
     
>Heat transfer is in part a function of the specific heat of a 
>substance.  It takes a certain amount of _time_ to heat up something, 
>and the rate at which the temperature of a substance rises is 
>determined by (in part) its specific heat.  Different substances have 
>different specific heats, and, all other things being equal, 
>experience different rates of temperature rise when exposed to a heat 
>source.

Agreed.
     
>     As in the case of passing your hand through a candle flame, your hand 
>     gets hot because it absorbs heat from the flame.  Pass your hand fast, 
>     and you're safe.  Too slow, and it cooks because too much heat was 
>     transferred.

Yes, but if your hand were "continuous and fluid", always more hand coming into
the flame as some hand were leaving it, it would eventually get cooked (see,
Using a Rotisserie, chap.6), no matter how fast or slow you rotated the spit.
The fluid in the cooling system is being "rotated" around the equilbrium point,
some fuid is passing through the hot side, and an equal amount passing through
the cool side, all this occuring simultaneously.
     
>     In a cooling system, if the fluid enters and leaves the radiator too 
>     fast, it won't spend enough time giving up heat, and will retain more 
>     than it should - its exit temp will be higher.  Under certain 
>     conditions (probably seldom encountered in normal driving), too fast 
>     an airflow can do the same thing.  The point is that the coolant gets 
>     routed back to the engine before it's had a chance to cool.
     
Still not convinced ...see Mr. Wizard experiment # 27 later on...

>     An interesting note: the rate of airflow for proper cooling of an 
>     aircraft engine (i.e., heat tranfer from the radiator) was a 
>     considerable problem when WWII aircraft started flying at more than 
>     400 miles per hour.  In fact, the ductwork for the P-51 had to be 
>     designed to slow the air down so it would pass through the radiator 
>     for a longer period of time, absorbing more heat.
     
I'm looking at my Jane's Great Fighter Aircraft  complete with cut away view of
the P-51, and it really looks as though the reason the duct work was situated
that way was to place the radiator at a angle behind and below the pilot, aslo
allowing a narrow radiator to fit into the sleek, thin fuselage.  The British
Spitfire was also RR Merlin powered, had no such duct work, and was said to 
only
over heat when the landing gear was extended, thus blocking the airflow through
the under-wing mounted radiator.  It, too, in later war versions had a maximum
achievable airspeed in excess of 400 kt.  The Corsair, air cooled, still had
cowl vents, and they sure didn't close them when that big 2,000 hp Pratt &
Whitney needed air flow around the cylinder fins !     

Mr. Wizard experiment # 27:

Take a 1 L beaker.  Fill with ambient water, say 70 F.  Put a "hot" source
against one side of the beaker, and equal capacity cooling source directly
opposite.  Place beaker on a magnetic stirring base.  Install three
thermometers; one in the center of the beaker, one in the water along the side
of the beaker on the hot side, and one in the water on the cool side.  With the
sytem in stasis, and no added heat/cool influence (units turned off) note
thermometers.  All read 70 F.  Turn heat/cooling units on.  Hot thermometer
rises (it's near the heat), cold side thermometer drops (nearest the large
picture window, without thermopane glass in your hunting lodge in Maine in
December...b-r-br-br-br-r).  Since our heating and cooling units are exactly
equal in thermal capacity, the center thermometer stays at 70 F, because just 
as
many calories are being contributed to the fluid as are being lost to the cool
side.  Now drop the magnetic pellet into the water, and turn the magnetic
stirring unit on low.  The cool side thermometer begins to rise as some of the
warm side water moves toward it.  Likewise, the hot side thermometer begins to
drop the same amount as the cool side rose.  The center thermometer stays the
same.  Speed up the circulation by spinning the pellet faster.  Soon, the cold
side and hot side and center thermometers will all read the same.. If you speed
the pellet faster than this, the solution will NOT get warmer.. equilibrium has
been achieved and..this represents the conservation of energy and the first law
of thermomdynamics.  If the solution were to get hotter or cooler, we woulld
have found a new energy source, and we all better rush to the patent office.

Frank Boerger
'68 Cutlass convertible/'68 cutlass coupe for parts

------------------------------

From: Frank Boerger <103454.317@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 22:02:48 -0300
Subject: FW: FW: Redline Water Wetter: experience/sources?

This one has been almost as much fun as the infamous "Amsoil" thread !!

Frank Boerger

------------------------------

From: Brad Baker <bradbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 22:36:21 -0300
Subject: oldsmobile mail

>Hello! I would like to know more about your Olds club.Please mail me back
>with info about this club. Thanks...  subscribe oldsmobile.
>

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 01:41:44 -0300
Subject: Re: FW: FW: Redline Water Wetter: experience/sources?

Frank Boerger wrote:
> 
> This one has been almost as much fun as the infamous "Amsoil" thread !!

Oh, it's much more fun that that one.  Don'cha think?

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 01:38:44 -0300
Subject: Re: FW: FW: Redline Water Wetter: experience/sources?

Frank Boerger wrote:
> 
> P.S.  I guess it's time I came clean and revealed to everyone that my 
> mom's maiden name is K-A-L-K-H-O-F-F....yeah, it's true !!

YIKES!!!!  And you folks were worried about the dreaded Toro-virus!

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 22:59:32 -0300
Subject: Re: '70 SX Convertible 

At 09:13 AM 8/29/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Lisa, I'd be interested in what you find out about the '70 SX too.
>
>What's the differences between the SX and 442 ? I know the hardtop body
>styles are different, but this should not matter for convertibles, and
>the SX has a 2 BBL option.  Are the suspensions the same ?

The early SX (prior to Feb. 1970) had the L-33 2-bbl 320hp 455 standard,
with the W-32 365hp 4-bbl 455 optional. After that, an L-31 365hp 4-bbl was
standard, and the W-32 motor was optional (we covered this here in class a
couple months back; I still have the notes [factory memos, in fact] if
you're interested). Oh, and the W-32 had no stickers indicating that it was
such.

What the difference between the standard L-31 365hp 4-bbl and the optional
W-32 365hp 4-bbl are, remains a mystery.

Suspension was stock Cutlass (I know; my early-year 2-bbl SX had this, with
no rear sway bar), though the 442 suspension was an option.

As far as convertibles are concerned, the grilles and interior trim were
different, and the SX could be had without the 442 suspension (if you really
wanted to save the $27 or so that it cost back then...).

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado Standard Coupe & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block
boys)
- - 1978 Electra Limited Landau Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 23:44:16 -0300
Subject: Re: Gasoline for '67 Olds 88 

At 08:44 PM 8/29/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Does it make much difference what grade of gasoline I put in my Super 
>Rocket?

Not until you hear rattling from under the hood. If your Super Rocket had a
10.25:1 compression ratio, Olds recommended "Premium" fuel, which was, what,
98 octane back then? Though the octane is rated differently today, 93 octane
is pretty much as close as you'll come in a regularly-available fuel (though
I suppose the 94.5 Sunoco might actually have an identical octane to the old
"Premium"; I'm not even getting into racing gas or AvGas).

I suppose you could even run a lower grade, if you retarded your initial
timing advance setting; but then performance would suffer.

I run 93 octane in my '69 Toronado with 10.25:1 compression (yeah, yeah, I
know that's the _nominal_, not the _actual_, rating), and with the stock 8
deg. initial advance setting and an adjustable vacuum advance (limiting the
total vacuum advance available) I don't get any pings whatsoever, even
lugging it up a long hill on a hot day with a full-load.

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado Standard Coupe & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block
boys)
- - 1978 Electra Limited Landau Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: brett@actel.com
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 23:34:59 -0300
Subject: Re[4]: Followup: Trunk Lamp and Strange Tabs on Back Sea 

     
     Yes, the shoulder harness does go in the opposite direction as you 
     describe.  
     
     I haven't ruled out a post-assembly installation.  In fact, I am 
     pretty sure now that it is.  The outboard tabs are the most curious.  
     They are colored white and appear to be stitched or glued on the rear 
     armrest panels.  The inner tabs are black, and there are 2 immediately 
     to the right of the hump, and one to the left of the hump. Maybe this 
     was part of a previous owner's screwball idea.  The inner and outer 
     tabs are different. 
     
     By the way, I will be up at the Jefferson, WI 'Fall Little Carlisle' 
     on Sept 22.  If you plan to go there, let me know and maybe you can 
     see it.  They have a pretty big swap meet, car show, and car corral 
     there. 


______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Followup: Trunk Lamp and Strange Tabs on Back Sea
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at SMTPlink-Actel
Date:    8/29/96 7:23 AM


>        I looked up the below mentioned info in the Fisher manual.  This 
>     retainer is different from the tabs on my Cutlass.  Mine are of an 
>     open frame construction, and are too flimsy to hold a buckle like the 
>     illustrated one can.  View B also indicates that the actual shoulder 
>     belt attaches to the center-most seat belt hold-down bolts.  The belt 
>     then drapes over the bench seat and over the shoulder of the front 
>     outboard occupants.
     
Oh, jeez, I'm lost. Are you saying the belt goes over the passenger's 
left shoulder instead of the right? (Driver's right instead of left?)
     
>        Hey Andrew, I looked in the owner's manual, ass'y manual, Fisher 
>     Body manual, and the Olds shop manual.  No mention of them.  Thanks 
>     anyway.
     
Huh. For a company that documents every plastic wiring clip in my manual, 
I don't know what to say. We've ruled out aftermarket gadgets, right?
     
>        You folks sure are doing some great hunting and suggesting on my 
>     behalf.  I think that it is very obscure, based on the fact that 
>     nobody has seen them before in this vintage of A-body convertible.  
>     
>     Brett Chaveriat                brett@actel.com 
>     Arlington Hts, IL
     
That's for sure. Y'know, you and I live in the same suburb; I really must 
check this out sometime!
     
Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431 
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com 
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473
     
     

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 20:31:46 -0300
Subject: Re: new subscriber

Clay Pierce wrote:
> 
> Hello all,
> I recently subscribed to the Olds list, and would like to introduce
> myself.  My name is Clayton Pierce.  I live in Greene County in
> eastern Tennessee about 4 miles from N. Carolina.  I attend East
> Tennessee State University, and work on campus with computers.
> I joined this list because I recently bought an older Oldsmobile.  So
> far, it seems to be the best, most reliable car that I have ever
> owned.  I paid $250 cash for my '74 Delta 88 with the 350 4V
> 400 turbo tranny, and 65,000 original miles.  Occasionally I may also
> be posting questions for my friend Jason Belt.  He has an '83 Cutlass
> Supreme with a slightly built (cam, 4bbl. etc) 3.8l and an extremely
> built 350 turbo tranny.
> 
> Clayton Pierce
> Welcome Clayton,

I checked out your web page & found it interesting.  Good luck w/the 
Olds & school in TN.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama
- -- 
MZ 

------------------------------

From: Esko Ilola <esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi>
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 05:43:09 -0300
Subject: Condensors - Spark booster

The high voltage needed to make a spark plug operable is achieved by 
letting the primary coil voltage raise up uncontrollably. As a result, 
the magnetic field inside the coil changes rapidly. The more rapidly the 
field changes, the higher voltage is generated in the coil. The high 
voltage is boosted even more by having a secondary winding which has 
significantly more wouds than the primary.

If you put an oscilloscope on the primary side of an ignition coil, you 
will see voltages that are not in the range 0..12V but merely in the 
range -300..+300v. (Im not sure of the ABSOLUTE values, I think that the 
PRINCIPLE is more important here). Since the voltages appear only a 
short time, you can't read them with an ordinary voltmeter.

The purpose of the condensor inside the distributor is to slow down the 
voltage raise when the coil circuit opens. If the voltage rises too 
fast, the energy that was supposed to go into plugs makes an unwanted 
'spark' over the breaker contacts. This is because the contacts open 
relatively slowly compared with the voltage rise. The sparking contacts 
mean that there is something wron in your capacitor/contacts/coil/plugs. 

If a large (10000uF) capacitor is put over the contacts, the magnetic 
field changes too slowly to make a voltage high enough for the plugs. At 
same time the breaker contacts have a hard time discharging the energy 
stored in the big condensator when they close again.

To ignite gasoline some energy is needed. Having only high voltage is 
not enough, we must have some current too. The energy is stored in the 
coil when the breker contacts are closed and it's freed when they open. 
If the breaker contacts stay closed too little time, the coil does not 
have enough energy for ignition. Here is the thing called dwell.

The slowliness of the mechanical contact points can be overcome by 
substituting them with an electronical unit that uses the points only to 
control a FAST connecting transistor. Because the transistor is faster 
than the voltage rise in the coil, the capacitor can be omitted. As a 
result you get the same energy into spark plugs. The good thing in this 
is that the breaker contacts last a lot longer and that this system is 
not so sensitive to humidity. This kind of systems are often called 
spark-boosters and the one I constructed into my Saab :) was one of 
these. 

The breaker contacts, electrical or mechanic, are a good and reliable 
method to produce ignition voltages at low frequencies. When the 
frequency rises (higher RPM), some more sophisticated methods are 
required to put enough energy into spark plugs. One of the most 
efficient methods is the capacitor discharge method. In this system you 
charge a (10uF) capacitor to a high voltage (around 300V) and then 
discharge that rapidly into ignition coil primary. The speed is 
achieved by FORCING current into a capacitor instead of letting the coil 
soak energy using it's own pace. In this method the energy is stored in 
the capacitor, not in the coil.

To construct a spark-booster (breaker contact booster if you wish) is 
very simple. The unit consists of a NPN-type high voltage, high current 
transistor, the controlling (driver) transistor and some protecting 
circuitry. The unit is simple enough to be constructed without printed 
circuit board. PCB:s are not really reliable under hood so it's a good 
idea to build this unit without one. I will send more detailed 
description of this unit soon. Hope you can manage without it till that. 
As a matter in fact, I'm going to build one into my Grand Lady too and 
after that give the results to you. Hope this sounds OK.

I wish a nice weekend for all of you, especially for the newcomers.
- -- 
**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi           *
* X400  G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
* Oldsmobile 98  1964  4D HT                 *
**********************************************

------------------------------

From: kissrulz@gnn.com (Craig Dobbins)
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 05:16:37 -0300
Subject: Re: Gasoline for '67 Olds 88 

Sam,
  I myself (proud owner of a '68 442 Convert.), always use 93 or 94 octane.  
I usually then add a octane booster, and always some lead additive (my heads 
are still very original, and performing nicely, so the additive is not an 
option).

                                                        Craig Dobbins
>Date:		Thu, 29 Aug 1996 21:44:24 -0300
>From:	Sam Watson <smw@hal-pc.org>
>Sender:	oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>To:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>Subject:	Gasoline for '67 Olds 88
>
>Does it make much difference what grade of gasoline I put in my Super 
>Rocket?
>

------------------------------

From: kissrulz@gnn.com (Craig Dobbins)
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 05:30:39 -0300
Subject: Synthetic Oil vs. Regular Oil 

Does anyone have any experiences with regular oil working better than 
synthetic or the other way around?  Or for that matter, any preferences 
between running multi-vescosity oil vs. straight weight oil?  Just wondering 
because I've always been told that the regular was always better if you 
changed every 2-3000 miles, and I've also been told that a good 40 weight oil 
was much better than a multi 20W-50 oil (for summer running of course).

                                              Everyone start thier fingers,
                                                 Craig Dobbins.

------------------------------

From: "Graham Stewart" <graham.stewart@utoronto.ca>
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 09:45:13 -0300
Subject: Re: Redline Water Wetter (sort of)

> Nick DiGiovanni wrote:
> > 
> > Yes doubt, in my area my igloo is sitting on a frozen river and it 
> > ain't mov'n. Oh, excuse me while I go and harpoon another baby seal 
> > for dinner :)

>Mike Frederick wrote: 
> And PETA is gonna get you for that baby seal remark...    :o
 
No, No, No, Nick, you CLUB baby seals; use the harpoon for a whale or a
walrus as you see fit ...

"Looking for baby seals
"In my Oldsmobile
"Fell through the river
"Now I got no wheels"

well, almost Oldsmobile-related

BTW, going through last-night's mail: this has been the most educational
Saturday morning in quite a while.  Good work, folks.

Graham Stewart
graham.stewart@utoronto.ca

------------------------------

From: hitson@leadbelt.com (Roger Hitson)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 22:53:49 -0300
Subject: Re: What Gas?

                >
>In your 67 98 your super rocket was expecting a steady diet of premium
>since it was born. Now that lead is gone and you may have rebuilt you
>might get away with less depending on pinging, knock, pistons etc.
>but the SuperRocket 425 wanted premium as designed.
>cf
>
>
>
Are any of you using lead substitutes or octane boosters. If so, what?

------------------------------

From: DELPROPO@EMUVAX.EMICH.EDU
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 10:59:25 -0300
Subject: 70 bumper needed

I am looking for a nice front bumper for my 70 Cutlass. I you can help please
let me know. Tnank you Greg

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 14:00:36 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds Club of Florida Meeting

BobH592058@aol.com wrote:
> 
> To all the folks on the list from Florida, the next meeting of the Olds 
> Club of Florida will be next Tuesday at 7:00PM...

Thanks for the invite, Bob.  It may be tough to get there by 7 on a 
Tuesday night since I got a 1.5 hr drive from Tampa.  ...and this 
following a 3 day weekend -- business Tuesday is going to be brisk.

Keep me posted.  If I can't make this one, I'd like to try for the next.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 12:49:25 -0300
Subject: Forged 455 cranks 

Yes it finally happened.  Chris Witt got to see an actual original Olds 455 
forged crank, and he wasn't dreaming!  Here are the details from Chris.

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
            FAQ version 2.0 due mid Sept!

- -------------
>From wittchri Wed Aug 28 23:27:37 1996
Subject: Forged crank

Well, it finally happened. Saw & photographed a true forged 455 crank. I think
this information should be fwd'd to the list, for the general populace of Olds
enthusiasts. The engine, btw, was the very same one that I almost bought a few
weeks ago, but had the wrong phone number, and this guy got it instead....

The really big news is... was this crank in a Toronado engine? No. An H/O
engine [as owner said rumor was]? No.

No, this forged steel 455 crank was right out of a freshly dismantled,
numbers-matching....

1968 455 *low compression*, presumably 2-V engine.

Go figger.

Specifics:
400943 crank, numbers barely visible, on the rear weight.
Notch in rear face is a 'rounded-L' shape, longer than say a 425's L, and the
corner is smooth, not a nice right angle. Just like Mondello's tech manual
shows except he shows a sharp corner there. Forging flash removal left a very
wide "part line" as per usual for a forging.

VIN deriv: 38M250256
Engine Unit #: 8284939
Block cast on day 15 [Jan 15]
Dist'r #1111288 8A1: '68 LC 455, made Jan01
xst mans: A-T, cast on day 2-?
C heads, small valve, cast on day 3-13 or 13-13 [rusty]
Motor mounts were on the fwd pair of holes, and only the rear block drain holes
were drilled, thus negating the theory that it was an H/O motor.

So, folks, even the lowly LC 455's might very well have the steel forged crank!
Funny, I have about a dozen engines, some of the finest made- '68 Toronado, '69
Police motor, '69 98 LS motors, etc. *none* of which have that forged crank!
- --
Chris  B. Witt
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 10:44:46 -0300
Subject: Olds Web Page and List in the News! 

Okay, not the news technically, but Cars & Parts magazine, but I
couldn't fit all that into the Subject line.

The October issue has a tiny item about us at the bottom right corner
of page 137, with a slightly muddleheaded explanation of how to sign
up, as follows (in its entirety):

[quote]
Olds on the Internet--Oldsmobile enthusiasts can access and exchange
information at three e-mail sites. The web page site is:
http://www.442.com. To subscribe to the newsletter: subscribe oldsmobile.
To subscribe or unsubscribe to the Oldsmobile list: majordomo@ccn.cs.dal.ca.
Include one of the following as the only text in the body of the message:
subscribe oldsmobile, subscribe oldsmobile-digest, unsubscribe oldsmobile,
unsubscribe oldsmobile-digest.
[unquote]

Gosh, really captures the spirit of the thing, doesn't it?  :-)  At least
they got the addresses right. Yo, Bryce, maybe we could add a line or two
somewhere on the web page to properly greet Cars & Parts readers, say in
the daily announcements (8/26/96) area...?

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: kissrulz@gnn.com (Craig Dobbins)
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 08:20:34 -0300
Subject: Hey Bryce, Read this!!!! 

Yea Bryce,
  I had accessed The Bryce page several times before (while I was looking to 
buy my Olds) and for quite a while after I bought my '68 442 Convert., and I 
only noticed the line about our mailing list after I was already a member of 
the list.  C'MON BRYCE, this list should be one of the more BOLDLY printed 
and showcased things on your page!!  The more members the better!

                                                Craig Dobbins



>Date:		Fri, 30 Aug 1996 10:44:46 -0300
>From:	"Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
>Sender:	oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>To:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>Subject:	Olds Web Page and List in the News!
>
>Okay, not the news technically, but Cars & Parts magazine, but I
>couldn't fit all that into the Subject line.
>
>The October issue has a tiny item about us at the bottom right corner
>of page 137, with a slightly muddleheaded explanation of how to sign
>up, as follows (in its entirety):
>
>[quote]
>Olds on the Internet--Oldsmobile enthusiasts can access and exchange
>information at three e-mail sites. The web page site is:
>http://www.442.com. To subscribe to the newsletter: subscribe oldsmobile.
>To subscribe or unsubscribe to the Oldsmobile list:
> majordomo@ccn.cs.dal.ca.
>Include one of the following as the only text in the body of the message:
>subscribe oldsmobile, subscribe oldsmobile-digest, unsubscribe oldsmobile,
>unsubscribe oldsmobile-digest.
>[unquote]
>
>Gosh, really captures the spirit of the thing, doesn't it?  :-)  At least
>they got the addresses right. Yo, Bryce, maybe we could add a line or two
>somewhere on the web page to properly greet Cars & Parts readers, say in
>the daily announcements (8/26/96) area...?
>
>Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
>Datalogics, Inc.
>441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
>Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473
>
>

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 13:55:06 -0300
Subject: Re: Hey Bryce, Read this!!!! 

Easy, easy.  That was a suggestion right?

The mail list info is on the "Oldsmobile Related Entities" page which is 
the second item on the main page.  Kind of easy, don't you think?

Well, it's pretty nice seeing everyone's Olds' on the www!

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!
- ------------------
Yea Bryce,
  I had accessed The Bryce page several times before (while I was looking to 
buy my Olds) and for quite a while after I bought my '68 442 Convert., and I 
only noticed the line about our mailing list after I was already a member of 
the list.  C'MON BRYCE, this list should be one of the more BOLDLY printed 
and showcased things on your page!!  The more members the better!

                                                Craig Dobbins

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 11:48:11 -0300
Subject: Re: DOT 5 Brake Fluid Conversion 

>As far as I am concerned I have had no significant problems with DOT 5 fluid
>for a 13 year test, so I will keep it.  Arguments pro and con on this will
>probably be similar to the synthetic vs regular oils.
>
>Let the discussion begin!

Not so fast, big guy. If you're going to have a proper discussion on this
list, you need to stimulate a disagreement between Mike Frederick and
somebody else on this list, so that both can write long theses at each
other while the rest of us go out for coffee.

Okay, I'll see if I can start now with a generic message which really has
nothing to do with brake fluid:

*ahem*

I don't know where Mike gets that idea of his in the post he's about to
write, but I've never seen that happen before; in fact that directly
contradicts my experience with my '72 LeMans, which _never_ did that.
To prove this, set up a simple experiment involving all the previous
items Mike mentioned. In order for Mike's theory to be true, if you
applied heat the hamster should burst into flames, when in actual fact
only the chocolate melts when the lobster falls into the intake.

Let the discussion begin!

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Todd Hall <thall@en.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 13:22:36 -0300
Subject: Year 1 Ram-Air Hood 

I'm considering buying a fiberglass ram-air hood for my '72 4-4-2 from year
one. Has anyone purchased one of these? Do they look like an aftermarket
hood? I don't want to spend $500 on a hood that looks like it doesn't belong
on the car.
I'd like to find an authentic one of course, but nice one's are going for
$1,000+, a little out of the budget.

Also, what is involved with the conversion from the center latch to the hood
pins? I've never seen them up close.

Thanks!
J. Todd Hall                         
Cleveland, OH       
1972 4-4-2        

"If you ever drop your keys into a river of molten lava, let'em go, 
 because, man, they're gone." 
                                    

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 16:15:58 -0300
Subject: Re: DOT 5 Brake Fluid Conversion

Andrew C. Green wrote:
> 
> ...so that both can write long theses at each other while the rest of 
> us go out for coffee.

Since you've brought it up, I usually go out for coffee during bandwidth 
discussions.

> In order for Mike's theory to be true, if you applied heat the hamster 
> should burst into flames, when in actual fact only the chocolate melts 
> when the lobster falls into the intake.

Not so!  The original experiment (and I'm sure Dave Barry will back me up 
on this) involved Pop-Tarts and Barbie Dolls.  Let's get our facts 
straight, Andy.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Todd Hall <thall@en.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 13:26:41 -0300
Subject: FAQ suggestion 

There's been a lot of discussion lately about converting standard ignition
to HEI recently. Perhaps a good idea for a FAQ section?  Dave?

J. Todd Hall                         
Cleveland, OH       
1972 4-4-2        

"If you ever drop your keys into a river of molten lava, let'em go, 
 because, man, they're gone." 
                                    

------------------------------

From: tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 13:30:31 -0300
Subject: re: cold cans and dry ice

>    Having played with a lot of dry ice in the not too distant past, I 
> can pretty much safely say that it is in fact quite a bit colder than 
> regualar ice (at least it seems that way).  I've come pretty close to 
> getting frost bite with it, and it can even get *really* cold through a 
> thick pair of leather gloves.  

Is it that the dry ice is colder (ie lower temp) or that it 
transfers heat faster than regular ice?  I know I could look this
up in a chemistry book, but there's never a chemistry book around
when you need one...
    
 
>...with dry ice, when it reaches it's melting point, it sublimates 
> into CO2... 
 
There's the word I was looking for, "sublimate".  All I could think
of was "melt" and I knew that wasn't it...

Which brings up another thought (and almost brings this back around
to having something to do with an Olds)  - Would the CO2 given off
from the dry ice mess with the carb?  I've never actually even
seen a "cool can" much less used one, but I gather from what everyone
has said that it sits under the hood and tries to cool the 
fuel/carb/intake manifold?  I've seen drag strip racers put 
warm and/or cold blanets on their intakes between runs to keep
the engine at the "right" temp (whatever they think thtat is).
I assume this is an attempt to do something similar while 
you're running around the track. (?)

That would mean there is a potential for the CO2 leave the cool can 
and pass throught the carb and on down into the combustion chamber 
where it could (in theory) choke out the gas/air mix (or at least 
the air part of the gas/air mix) and kill the engine.  

I'm not sure how likely that is.  I guess I've got in my head is
this picture of opening the hood and seeing this big cloud of 
"smoke" (C02) rolling off the engine like it just came out of
the deep freeze.  Sounds like cheap special effect in a B movie... :)


- - Travis and the 69 olds 98 convertable aka "Tiny"

- --
Travis McWaters                           Transmission Products Division
tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com               DSC Communications Corporation

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 12:27:53 -0300
Subject: Re: DOT 5 Brake Fluid Conversion 

>Not so!  The original experiment (and I'm sure Dave Barry will back me up 
>on this) involved Pop-Tarts and Barbie Dolls.  Let's get our facts 
>straight, Andy.

Mike, you ignorant slut.

Clearly you are mixing two experiments here. One involved a Barbie doll
and hair spray, the other involved a Pop-Tart and a K mart toaster ($9.96).

Personally I like the flaming vacuum cleaner competition myself, although
it was started by a Corvair club here in Chicago, of all people.

I can now imagine the look on the faces of the people who read about us
in Cars & Parts and only just signed on this morning...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 12:31:17 -0300
Subject: Re: DOT 5 Brake Fluid Conversion 

>Since you've brought it up, I usually go out for coffee during bandwidth 
>discussions.

Uh, I think at this point most of the list is probably going out for coffee,
so I'll apologize _before_ I get my knuckles rapped by Greg and promise to
stay on topic now. Jeez, I am way too close to the weekend...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 14:57:56 -0300
Subject: Re: FAQ suggestion 

It's in there!  I think I also included the recommendation of converting to 
an internally regulated or solid state alternator regulator.

Speaking of the FAQ, version 2.0 will be out mid Sept.  A little later than 
I thought, but with more info!!

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

- ---------------------
There's been a lot of discussion lately about converting standard ignition
to HEI recently. Perhaps a good idea for a FAQ section?  Dave?

J. Todd Hall                         
Cleveland, OH       
1972 4-4-2        

"If you ever drop your keys into a river of molten lava, let'em go, 
 because, man, they're gone!"

------------------------------

From: "Robert T. Handren, Jr." <BobHandren@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 14:01:48 -0300
Subject: Service Tools

There was a thread a while back concerning where one can get the service
tools referred to in service manuals.  The ones with a "J" prefix are by
Kent-Moore.  In one of my older Jeep manuals (copyright 1985) there are
addresses and phone numbers for Kent Moore in the US and Canada.  They are:

Kent-Moore (USA)
29784 Little Mack
Roseville, MI 48066-2298
(800)345-2233

Kent-Moore (Canada)
5466 Timberlea Blvd.
Mississauga, Ontario
Canada L4W 2T7
(416)624-6295

I called the US number just for the heck of it and asked about the
availability of rear end pinion setting tools for "B", "P" and "O" rear
ends.  I took the "J" numbers right out of my '67 service manual.  They are
still availble!  Some of the numbers were changed and combined which reduces
the number of items needed.)

FYI they total about $200.  I will probably not buy them.  You need to be
careful when deciding to buy the tools specified in the _factory_ service
manuals because they may be designed for _factory_ parts. In this case it is
difficult at best to find NOS gear sets for the rear ends in '64-'72
Oldsmobiles.  For about $200 you can buy a universal pinion setting tool
that works on aftermarket gears.

Someone advertises in JWO as having service tools for sale.  Anybody wanna
bet they get 'em form Kent-Moore and jack up the prices?

Bob Handren                    OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified             '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL
U.S. FDA Regulatory Affairs   (407)365-6385
Bob Handren                    OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified             '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL
U.S. FDA Regulatory Affairs   (407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 07:03:12 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: cold cans and dry ice 

>    Having played with a lot of dry ice in the not too distant past, I 
> can pretty much safely say that it is in fact quite a bit colder than 
> regualar ice (at least it seems that way).  I've come pretty close to 
> getting frost bite with it, and it can even get *really* cold through a 
> thick pair of leather gloves.  
     
Is it that the dry ice is colder (ie lower temp) or that it 
transfers heat faster than regular ice?
     
     It depends upon how fast the ice and the fuel are "flowing", and 
     whether you use strawberry or cherry pop tarts.
     
That would mean there is a potential for the CO2 leave the cool can 
and pass throught the carb and on down into the combustion chamber 
where it could (in theory) choke out the gas/air mix (or at least 
the air part of the gas/air mix) and kill the engine.  
     
     Not very likely, esp. if you have some sort of Ram-Air or OAI system.  
     . . . Now things brings up another memory of LOX and a bar-b-q. . .
     
     TGIF!
     
     Tom.

------------------------------

From: bryce_smith@442.com (Bryceman)
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 14:32:43 -0300
Subject: Mail List Link 

Was it Todd Hall who suggested a more prominent link to the Olds Mail List
Sign-up? I agree, it should have a higher billing...  and it does now.
Check it out.
BTW no more YellinG at Bryceman. I am more responsive to lower case requests.

       Life, Liberty and the "Hot Pursuit" of Oldsmobiles
'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender  '65 442   '72 Cutlass Convertible
           Email: bryceman@442.com  URL: www.442.com

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 15:33:30 -0300 
Subject: Re: Overfill Bottle

>If you happen to be just using an overfill bottle for the track
>consider this before drilling holes. A couple of zip-ties and a
>plastic 16 oz soda bottle. Removable and recyclable. I just switch my
>radiator caps and zip-tie the bottle to the frame near the side of the
>radiator, then run the overflow tube to the bottle through the hole I
>cut in the cap. Keeps the track officials off of my back(I guess they
>don't like antifreeze on the strip). After running I just cut it off,
>wash it out, and get five cents at the supermarket.
>Eric Buckner

Hmm.  I've been thinking of taking my 442 to Union Grove, and I know
it would fail inspection for no overflow tank, so I'd have to either do
the bottle trick or go permanent with a Eldo tank.

But why do you need to change the cap when you do this?  Is there
a difference if you use a recovery system?

- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

1970 442  4-Speed

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 15:40:03 -0300 
Subject: Re: Bucket Seat Q's

From: Frank Boerger <103454.317@CompuServe.COM>

>Well, if you think 5/16" stainless steel pop rivets ( the kind they assemple
>light plane spars with, etc.) can have holding problems, just wait your buddy
>makes an overheated AC arc weld on those 30 year old, .032" thick, used floor
>pans !

Yeah, got to thinking about that when I was putting in the seat belts.  a nut
welded to 30 year old rusted metal isnt the most reassuring thing...

- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

1970 442  4-Speed

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 15:55:12 -0300 
Subject: Re: New Baby Coming - LSS

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>

>>Through no luck of my own, I'll be the proud step father to a 1994 88 LSS
in 2
>>weeks.

>Wheee! Sounds like fun. My SSEi is the sister car to that; I've found
>occasional references to it in the Pontiac manual. What engine has this
>one got?

Its got the same 3.8L Bu**k that yours has. (minus the compressor. :-)

In my '95 service manual the 88 seems to have lots of differences in
the electrical area than the Lesaber and Bonneville.  I'm not sure why
they would be that different.

- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

1970 442  4-Speed
and '95 Bonneville...

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 14:44:40 -0300
Subject: Re: Overfill Bottle 

>But why do you need to change the cap when you do this?  Is there
>a difference if you use a recovery system?

Was wondering that myself. I thought they were pretty much the same,
although systems without recovery tanks used radiator caps with "ears"
simply because they were a little easier to remove that way, and if
you have a system without a recovery tank, you need to remove that cap
whenever you need to add more coolant.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: John Harris <John.Harris@rttc.redstone.army.mil>
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 15:57:48 -0300
Subject: Pinion gear depth question (long)

Folks

I think that I will attempt to rebuild the differential in my 69 442.  I
will be replaceing my carrier with a posi unit and will replace my gears
with some Richmond 3.90s.

I bought a rebuild kit from DTS (DriveTrain Specialists)  It included
bunches of shims, two carrier bearings, two pinion bearings, a pinion
nut, gear marking compound and some rtv to make a new cover gasket. 
They did not include a new crush sleeve.  I was told to use the old one
and a shim.  I have even went as far as to order Richmond Gear's video
on how to install a ring and pinion.  I have also read my 69 chasis
manual about 10 times in the differential section.

My main concern is getting the pinion depth correct.

This is where I need some help.  Please correct me if I am wrong.
I ASSUME  if I take the old pinion gear out and measure the distance
from the face of the pinion to the face of the bearing that presses
against the housing that this distance should be the same on the new
pinion.  If this is true I could shim the pinion properly before
pressing on the bearing.

You are supposed to measure from the center bore of the ring gear to the
face of the pinion.  I could do this but it would require a little more
set up.  To do this I was going to measure the outside diameter of the
carrier bearing.  Take 1/2 of that distsnce to be the centerline of the
ring gear.  Then I would get a pipe and drill a hole in it.  I would
then attach a dial indicator and run the probe through the pipe.  I
would then place this pipe and indicator on a surface plate and have the
probe go through the hole in the pipe and rest on the surface plate.  At
his time I would set the indicator to 0.  Then I would place the pipe
across the carrier saddles.  Then I would place a parallel bar (long
skinny gauge block) across the face of the pinion.  I would then read
the dial indicator.  The dial indicator would read the distance from the
bottom of the pipe (bottom of the carrier saddles) to the face of the
parallel bar.  In order to measure the depth I would add 1/2 diameter of
the bearing + dial indicator displacement + thickness of parallel bar.

This should do it.  However the reason I don't like this is because if
the depth is wrong you have to remove the pinion, press the bearing back
off and place the correct shimming.  If I could do it like I discussed
in the first method I would avoid the possibility of having to remove
the pinion and having to press the bearing back off and shimming.

What do ya'll think??

John M Harris 
69 442

------------------------------

From: eric_b_buckner@non-hp-om.cv.hp.com
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 16:07:16 -0300
Subject: Re: Overfill Bottle

     My "original" cap/radiator combo doesn't have any kind of outlet on it 
     for over-flow. So I had to go out and find a cap that had an outlet on 
     the top of it. Can't remember where I got it, think it was Knechts 
     Auto (local parts-mongers). 
     
     Eric Buckner
     '64 F-85 Deluxe
     Albany, OR

     



     
Hmm.  I've been thinking of taking my 442 to Union Grove, and I know
it would fail inspection for no overflow tank, so I'd have to either do 
the bottle trick or go permanent with a Eldo tank.
     
But why do you need to change the cap when you do this?  Is there 
a difference if you use a recovery system?
     
- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
     
1970 442  4-Speed
     

------------------------------

From: eric_b_buckner@non-hp-om.cv.hp.com
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 16:17:13 -0300
Subject: Overfill bottle

Item Subject: cc:Mail Text
     Let me clarify,
     I would be lucky to find anythink in front of the steering wheel that 
     is stock (except those da**ed  drum brakes).The radiator is some kind 
     of kustom jobber thats about 3/4" thick and 3' by 4'. And it's been 
     welded to the the frame across the bottom. And it *had* no overflow/ 
     recovery system whatsoever. I had to buy a cap with a nipple on top so 
     I could run a hose to my bottle. Didn't mean to cause any confusion:)
     
     Eric Buckner
     '64 F-85 Deluxe
     Albany, OR

------------------------------

From: sbento@mecn.mass.edu
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 16:30:07 -0300
Subject: Re: Year 1 Ram-Air Hood

Todd,

I recently purchased one of these hoods used and I am very happy with it, 
the hood is actually made by a company called Glasstech.

This hoods are better than the other aftermarket ones in that they have 
the factory style bracing (in fiberglass) which allows you to use the 
stock hinges and the O.A.I. air cleaner (if your lucky enough to have 
one) ;), however you can't use the stock hood springs and the ones that 
year one sell are kind of weak. I meet a guy at a car show who had 
these and they wouldn't even hold up the hood!!!!

The stock hood latch can't be used so you have to spend around $120 to  
get the complete pin kit from year one to install it.

Steve

71 Cutlass 455
93 Mustang LX 5.0





On Fri, 30 Aug 1996, Todd Hall wrote:

> I'm considering buying a fiberglass ram-air hood for my '72 4-4-2 from year
> one. Has anyone purchased one of these? Do they look like an aftermarket
> hood? I don't want to spend $500 on a hood that looks like it doesn't belong
> on the car.
> I'd like to find an authentic one of course, but nice one's are going for
> $1,000+, a little out of the budget.
> 
> Also, what is involved with the conversion from the center latch to the hood
> pins? I've never seen them up close.
> 
> Thanks!
> J. Todd Hall                         
> Cleveland, OH       
> 1972 4-4-2        
> 
> "If you ever drop your keys into a river of molten lava, let'em go, 
>  because, man, they're gone." 
>                                     
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

From: RBraden@qualitybio.com
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 17:06:34 -0300
Subject: Ram Air Hoods

     Todd,
     I was in the same situation in '93.  Since I had more time than money, 
     I researched who was supplying these and where to find the same 
     product cheaper.  I ended up with a Repro. from Parts Unlimited in IL. 
     (I don't know if they are still around). It had the same underhood 
     ducts, but required a lot of finish work to satisfy me.  The center 
     latch needs to be totally removed if this type is to be used.  I have 
     since read that these hoods are being produced with a metal support 
     frame that allows the retention of the center latch in addition to the 
     pins (much better choice / stock).  I have since purchased another car 
     just to get an original hood.  However, even the originals need to be 
     "fooled with" to get them to fit correctly.  P.S. If anyone has any 
     earthshattering tips as to how to do this please let me know.  
     
     Bob Braden / OCA#?
     rbraden@qualitybio.com
     1971 442 coupe
     1972 442 conv. 
     1974 88  conv.
     
     
     ______________________________ Reply Separator 
     _________________________________ Subject: Year 1 Ram-Air Hood
     Author:  Todd Hall <thall@en.com> at Internet Date:    8/30/96 1:22 PM
     
     
     I'm considering buying a fiberglass ram-air hood for my '72 4-4-2 from 
     year one. Has anyone purchased one of these? Do they look like an 
     aftermarket hood? I don't want to spend $500 on a hood that looks like 
     it doesn't belong on the car.
     I'd like to find an authentic one of course, but nice one's are going 
     for $1,000+, a little out of the budget.
     
     Also, what is involved with the conversion from the center latch to 
     the hood pins? I've never seen them up close.
     
     Thanks!
     J. Todd Hall                         Cleveland, OH       
     1972 4-4-2        
     
     "If you ever drop your keys into a river of molten lava, let'em go, 
     because, man, they're gone." 

------------------------------

From: bryce_smith@442.com (Bryceman)
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 17:13:50 -0300
Subject: Re: Year 1 Ram-Air Hood 

>stock hinges and the O.A.I. air cleaner (if your lucky enough to have
>one) ;), however you can't use the stock hood springs and the ones that
>year one sell are kind of weak. I meet a guy at a car show who had
>these and they wouldn't even hold up the hood!!!!

I am also intersted in one of these hoods...
I wonder if some other kind of stock springs would work off of a lesser GM
vehicle with a lighter hood? Like an early vega, monza or sunbird?
Any other ideas?

       Life, Liberty and the "Hot Pursuit" of Oldsmobiles
'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender  '65 442   '72 Cutlass Convertible
           Email: bryceman@442.com  URL: www.442.com

------------------------------

From: JJF97@uno.cc.geneseo.edu
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 18:16:17 -0300
Subject: Re: vw for sale

now imagine this, that VW powered by an olds 455 with all modifications
necessary to accept that engine and you comfortably....  now do you think
that VW should be on here???

=)

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 09:43:13 -0300
Subject: Re: Overfill bottle

At 04:17 PM 8/30/96 -0300, you wrote:
The radiator is . . . welded to the the frame across the bottom. 

>     Eric Buckner
>     '64 F-85 Deluxe
               ^^^^^^

Yeah, it is deluxe, isn't it?!
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: eric_b_buckner@non-hp-om.cv.hp.com
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 17:31:45 -0300
Subject: Re: Overfill bottle

     It must be, it says so right on the dash:)
     >     Eric Buckner
     >    '64 F-85 Deluxe
                   ^^^^^^
           Albany, OR

______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Overfill bottle
Author:  Non-HP-oldsmobile-owner (oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca) at 
HP-Corvallis,mimegw1
Date:    9/1/96 5:43 AM


At 04:17 PM 8/30/96 -0300, you wrote:
The radiator is . . . welded to the the frame across the bottom. 
     
>     Eric Buckner
>     '64 F-85 Deluxe
               ^^^^^^
     
Yeah, it is deluxe, isn't it?!
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme 
dpauliso@metrolink.net
     

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 17:34:21 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds Web Page and List in the News!

On Fri, 30 Aug 1996, Andrew C. Green wrote:
> The October issue has a tiny item about us at the bottom right corner
> of page 137, with a slightly muddleheaded explanation of how to sign
> up, as follows (in its entirety):
> 
> [quote]
> Olds on the Internet--Oldsmobile enthusiasts can access and exchange
> information at three e-mail sites. The web page site is:
> http://www.442.com. To subscribe to the newsletter: subscribe oldsmobile.
> To subscribe or unsubscribe to the Oldsmobile list: majordomo@ccn.cs.dal.ca.
> Include one of the following as the only text in the body of the message:
> subscribe oldsmobile, subscribe oldsmobile-digest, unsubscribe oldsmobile,
> unsubscribe oldsmobile-digest.
> [unquote]

That text is about as understandable as the discussion on coils and 
condensors yesterday... :)  But it explains the number of fractured 
"subscribe" requests I've gotten the last couple of days.

Andy, you're pleading that they misquoted you, I assume? Ah, the joys of 
dealing with the media....

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 16:27:22 -0300
Subject: Re: vw for sale 

>now imagine this, that VW powered by an olds 455 with all modifications
>necessary to accept that engine and you comfortably....

There would be severe steering problems due to having the front wheels
in the air...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 17:41:13 -0300
Subject: Re: '70 SX Convertible

On Thu, 29 Aug 1996 BobH592058@aol.com wrote:
> Greg B wrote: 
> >>It is my 
> >>dream car (except maybe for the color scheme, but who cares?), >>
> 
> Oh, are we starting the yellow is ugly thread again!  Watch it Greg, that
> describes our very '70 SX. :-)  Sebring Yellow, black top and black custom
> cloth insert interior.  Vinyl seats (any color) or rather uncomfortable in a
> convertible in warm weather.  For the purists, the pattern is identical to
> original.  I tell the "correctness" inquisitors that the interior was special
> order and that 37 cars came this way.   ;-) 

No, Bob, I actually *like* yellow... really! But not with a black 
interior. Those I don't like, maybe because my Cutlass has one and I feel 
like I'm in a coal mine all of the time. Now, if it had a white or 
parchment interior, that I'd love. 

Actually I think my favorite combo is something along the lines of Viking 
Blue exterior/white interior, or white/red. I had a Lemans years ago with 
a light blue metallic exterior, white top and white interior that really 
looked good. With my red Cutlass I think a white interior would look 
great. I see in JWO someone is advertising a white '68 bucket seat interior 
for $75, but I don't feel like tackling that job right now. My friend 
Steve's '70 SX has a darkish blue exterior with blue vinyl top and 
lighter blue vinyl interior which I also like quite a bit.

But hey, with a SX, I could live with it...  :) 

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Bill.Shinko@po.cle.ab.com (Bill Shinko)
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 17:40:28 -0300
Subject: Re: Redline Water Wetter: experience/sources? (long)

     On 8/29/96, Frank Boerger wrote:
     
     
>I'm looking at my Jane's Great Fighter Aircraft  complete with cut away view 
of
>the P-51, and it really looks as though the reason the duct work was situated 
>that way was to place the radiator at a angle behind and below the pilot, 
aslo 
>allowing a narrow radiator to fit into the sleek, thin fuselage. 
     
Definitely true.  However, according to an article in Air & Space (I think - 
can't remember if it was that or Scientific American), the _design_ of the 
ductwork was a critical enabler for this arrangement to provide adequate heat 
transfer.  Some initial investigation in the design of the P-51 was made to 
check the possibility of putting the radiator up front, but the 
behind-the-pilot
position was chosen to allow for better aerodynamics and faster speed - front 
cowling cooling and other such arrangements were reported to have as much as a 
30 mph penalty, if I recall correctly (that may have been from wind-tunnel 
tests).  
     
The point I was making was that, according to reported interviews with the 
original designers, the design of the duct was such that it not only scooped 
up 
the air, but made it slow down which was acknowledged as a requirement for the 
cooling system operation. That's why the duct was shaped more like a tear drop 
than just being an opening in the fuselage.  There was some work also done on 
the shape of the duct entrance to handle problems encountered with surface 
turbulence at high speed.
     
>The British Spitfire was also RR Merlin powered, had no such duct work, and 
was
>said to only over heat when the landing gear was extended, thus blocking the 
>airflow through the under-wing mounted radiator.  It, too, in later war 
>versions had a maximum achievable airspeed in excess of 400 kt.
     
400 kt is about 350 mph (1 kt =~1.15mph).  The P-51 design limits were on the 
order of more than 450 mph (>500kt.) at a higher service ceiling (speed record 
for P-51 was around 490mph).  Both thin air and very high air speeds were 
issues.  Also, I'm not sure but the '51 may have had an engine with more hp 
than
the Spit'.
     
>The Corsair, air cooled, still had cowl vents, and they sure didn't close 
them 
>when that big 2,000 hp Pratt & Whitney needed air flow around the cylinder 
fins
!     
Yup, you're right.  The Corsair had a big engine, and the biggest prop, but it 
wasn't designed for the same class of service as the P-51.  The air cooling 
was 
_very_ efficient, but the engine package was _huge_ - probably wouldn't have 
made it in a '51-style airframe.
     
>Mr. Wizard experiment # 27:
     
>Take a 1 L beaker.  Fill with ambient water, say 70 F.  Put a "hot" source 
>against one side of the beaker, and equal capacity cooling source directly 
>opposite.  Place beaker on a magnetic stirring base.  Install three 
>thermometers; one in the center of the beaker, one in the water along the 
side 
>of the beaker on the hot side, and one in the water on the cool side.  With 
the
>sytem in stasis, and no added heat/cool influence (units turned off) note 
>thermometers.  All read 70 F.  Turn heat/cooling units on.  Hot thermometer 
>rises (it's near the heat), cold side thermometer drops (nearest the large 
>picture window, without thermopane glass in your hunting lodge in Maine in 
>December...b-r-br-br-br-r).  Since our heating and cooling units are exactly 
>equal in thermal capacity, the center thermometer stays at 70 F, because just 
>as many calories are being contributed to the fluid as are being lost to the 
>cool side.
     
I'm no physicist, but by equal "capacity", I assume that your heat and cooling 
sources have the same specific heat as water, and differ from 70 F by the same 
amount of degrees, and have the same thermal coupling to the beaker.
     
>  Now drop the magnetic pellet into the water, and turn the magnetic stirring 
>unit on low.  The cool side thermometer begins to rise as some of the warm 
side
>water moves toward it.  Likewise, the hot side thermometer begins to drop the 
>same amount as the cool side rose.  The center thermometer stays the same.
     
Basically, ignoring any losses.  This also assumes that you are putting heat 
into the system and taking it out at the same rate, hot and cold sides.
     
>  Speed up the circulation by spinning the pellet faster.  Soon, the cold 
side 
>and hot side and center thermometers will all read the same.. If you speed 
the 
>pellet faster than this, the solution will NOT get warmer.. equilibrium has 
>been achieved 
     
(this was guaranteed when you said to make the heat and cold sources "equal 
capacity", and, in this case, I assume that you take "equilibrium" to mean 
that 
the water: a)stabilizes at a temperature, and b) that temp _is_ 70 F.  You 
agree
that you can also have a condition of equilibrium even though the water does 
not
remain at 70F, as long as it stabilizes, right? )
     
>and..this represents the conservation of energy and the first law of 
>thermomdynamics.  If the solution were to get hotter or cooler, we woulld 
have 
>found a new energy source, and we all better rush to the patent office.
     
>Frank Boerger
>'68 Cutlass convertible/'68 cutlass coupe for parts
     
     
True, I'd be in line right there with you!  However, this doesn't at all 
relate 
to the case of an engine cooling system.  Heat is produced in the cylinders at 
a
rate much higher than the air's capacity to cool it - this is why the coolant 
gets hot, in the same manner your beaker would get warmer if you turned up 
your 
heat source to put in more energy than your cold sink could take away.  To 
make 
up for the discrepancies of specific heat and rate of transfer among the 
block, 
the coolant and the air, they put a lot of tubes with a lot of fins on the 
radiator.  The cooling system's designed for a certain coolant temperature 
rise 
given a certain airflow over the radiator at a certain range of input (high) 
temperatures and a certain ambient temp.  At "normal" speeds of airflow, 
things 
are pretty linear - that is, the faster the air, the more heat is taken from 
the
radiator.  And, there's also the little matter of the thermostat, which 
actually
restricts the flow so that the water can spend more time in the block until it 
gets warmer, when it's let out to cool off.
     
Since heat transfer is a transfer of energy via molecular motion, the less 
time 
a "bunch" of cold molecules is exposed to a "bunch" of hot molecules, the less 
energy will be transferred from the hot ones to the cold ones - it isn't 
instantaneous.  (The actual amount of time for a certain termperature rise 
gets 
into the specific-heat discussion).  This is the basis for the statement that 
is
is _possible_ for the coolant to flow too fast.  Whether you look at it like 
the
coolant doesn't spend enough time in the radiator to release its energy to the 
air via the fins, or it spends too much time getting heated by a big heat 
source, it can amount to the same thing.  

Conversely, the air can move too fast to absorb enough heat from the cooling 
fins if the individual molecules of cool air don't contact the hot ones of the 
fins long enough.  (By the way, ever notice that sometimes you can get more 
heat
out of your car's heater at a low fan speed than a high fan speed?)  BUT, 
these 
conditions we're talking about are really (and I mean really) extremes - you 
wouldn't normally encounter these in any practical case.  So, restricted by 
the 
design in most cases, I'd agree that it'd be correct to say that the air (or 
the
coolant) probably couldn't move too fast to provide adequate cooling.
     
     
Anyway, it's an interesting subject.  Thanks for the discussion, Frank, and 
everyone else.
     
     
Bill
     
Bill.Shinko@ab.com
     
     
     
     
     
     
     

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 16:52:21 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds Web Page and List in the News! 

>Andy, you're pleading that they misquoted you, I assume? Ah, the joys of 
>dealing with the media....

Not at all, Greg; you'll be pleased to know that they misquoted _you_,
not me, since all I did was fax them your introductory message that's
sent to all new subscribers. I did get the impression in talking with
them, though, that they didn't totally grasp the concept, and it shows
in the editing of the paragraph.

Next time I'm talking to somebody at Amos Press, the parent publication,
I'll suggest that they get together a listing of all such lists, with a
more thorough explanation of how to sign up on the various types, and do
a proper article on the subject.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 18:18:01 -0300
Subject: Re: Year 1 Ram-Air Hood

At Nats in Atlanta, I purchased a 72 station wagon with one of the aftermarker 
hoods you folks are discussing. This is the only aftermarker hood I have seen 
that is not junk. It doesn't move while driving down the road as others do.
I bought the car from Eric Dammann of Sarasota, Florida. Eric has the springs 
you need to make the hood raising functional. Directory assistance can give 
you 
his phone number.

Art Fuller

P.S. You'll have to buy a pair of hood receivers that bolt onto the core 
support. I bet if you order one from Year One, they'll ask if you need these, 
plus the hood pins.

------------------------------

From: brett@actel.com
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 17:46:19 -0300
Subject: Re: Year 1 Ram-Air Hood 

        I am not sure about the Year One hoods, however, I believe that 
     they are entirely fiberglass.  This may permit more flex, and cause 
     cracks.  
     
        The use of an Outside Air Induction (OAI) hood requires the 
     addition of 2 brackets into which the hood pins lock.  The entire 
     2-part hood latch is identical in the OAI and non-OAI hoods.  The 
     procedure is to unlock the pins (via a quarter twist) and then open 
     the hood in the normal fashion.
     
     Brett Chaveriat                brett@actel.com 
     Arlington Hts, IL
     
     '72 Cutlass Supreme convt  
     


______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: Year 1 Ram-Air Hood
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at SMTPlink-Actel
Date:    8/30/96 9:35 AM


I'm considering buying a fiberglass ram-air hood for my '72 4-4-2 from year 
one. Has anyone purchased one of these? Do they look like an aftermarket 
hood? I don't want to spend $500 on a hood that looks like it doesn't belong 
on the car.
I'd like to find an authentic one of course, but nice one's are going for 
$1,000+, a little out of the budget.
     
Also, what is involved with the conversion from the center latch to the hood 
pins? I've never seen them up close.
     
Thanks!
J. Todd Hall                         
Cleveland, OH       
1972 4-4-2        
     
"If you ever drop your keys into a river of molten lava, let'em go, 
 because, man, they're gone." 
     
     
     

------------------------------

From: JJF97@uno.cc.geneseo.edu
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 19:27:28 -0300
Subject: Resto  Tip  .....

now here's what you've been waiting for.... (or not)

some of you have hood springs that are a little weak...

(hey guys, don't you hate it when you cant get it up and keep it up!)

well here's a tip i saw at a car show....  for each spring (shaped like a tube
more or less) at both ends of the tube was a small piece of metal (yet very
strong), inside the origional spring was another spring (very strong one at
that) and it was hooked on these metal ends....

the little springs added the extra "pull" that it needed, and i must say...
i never would have noticed it until the owner showed me!

hope this help all of you who can't "get it up!"  ;)

Resto  Corner

- --joe ferrero

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 21:27:16 -0300
Subject: Re: Redline Water Wetter: The Final Chapter?

Bill Shinko wrote:
>
> So, restricted by the design in most cases, I'd agree that it'd be 
> correct to say that the air (or the coolant) probably couldn't move 
> too fast to provide adequate cooling.

And you guys didn't think we'd ever get there.   ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Robert T. Handren, Jr." <BobHandren@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 19:08:09 -0300
Subject: Re: Pinion gear depth question (long)

At 06:57 PM 8/30/96 +0000, you wrote:
>Folks
>
>I think that I will attempt to rebuild the differential in my 69 442.  I
>will be replaceing my carrier with a posi unit and will replace my gears
>with some Richmond 3.90s.
>

>What do ya'll think??
>
>John M Harris 
>69 442
>

John:

Having done such a thing a few times and, like you, seeking the cheapest way
to do it, I offer the following.

The pinion gear shims usually step at .001". I don't know about you but
trying to get that kind of accuracy is pretty tough for me.  But, there are
a couple of things I've learned along the way and much of that was from GM
trained mechanics.

While gears can be cut with some leeway on dimensions, bearing manufacturers
can not. So, if you need to change a bearing you do _not_ need to check the
pinion depth.  I've done this at least twice and it works.  Of course if you
have the tools, I'd go for it.

Next, if you are using GM factory gears, they are marked to show how much
they differ from "ideal".  That's in your shop manual.  Using the value on
the old gear set and comparing that to the new gear set will tell you if and
how much the pinion shim will need to be changed.

But, if you are using aftermarket gears, they have an actual depth number
etched on the pinion gear head - or at least the ones I've used do.  This is
a problem for me.  I don't know how to translate the aftermarket number to
the stock pinion depth.  IF anybody does I could save another few bucks.

This last situation has left me to go through the trial and error of tooth
patterns. Either that or the pinion depth measurement.

Bob Handren                    OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified             '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL
U.S. FDA Regulatory Affairs   (407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: DELPROPO@emuvax.emich.edu
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 19:28:18 -0300
Subject: RE: Year 1 Ram-Air Hood 

Yes I saw a repro hood at a car show. From the outside the hoods look good. the
back of the hood that has the chrom molding is not indented for the trim piece.
The under side is neatly done except it does not have the correct screen and I
think it did not have the part that moves the air to the air cleaner, but I am
not 100% correct on that.I thought it was fiber glass. The chrome pin are on
the outside is correct but the underside just has a hole that the pin goes
through. On the car it looks good and the underside is ok.I always wanted one
but I was not going to buy the repro. Then one day I saw an add in the paper
listing a car for parts..for sale.. As I pulled into the driveway, I saw the
car had an orriginal W-25 hood. The car was a 72 , but had the front clip of a
70 W-31...The hood had some crackes, but I bought it complete except the air
cleaner for a VERY LOOOOOW PRICE. My suggestion is to keep looking for a real
hood.     
n

------------------------------

From: DELPROPO@emuvax.emich.edu
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 19:35:10 -0300
Subject: RE: Year 1 Ram-Air Hood 

Hello again, I got my hood complete except the air cleaner. Mounting the hood
brackets is easy as drilling two holes. and if its is an orriginal, the center
lock latch is not removed. You must have the weeker hood springs, but the
hinges are the same. On the repro, the center latch must be removed. again if
you can get an orriginal hood, you may pay more but yill always get you monr
money back,,,,,if not more. I hope my information helps Greg Del 70 Cutlass
Supreme Mich........P.S.   the w-25 hoods look super....... 

------------------------------

From: Brad Baker <bradbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 19:41:24 -0300
Subject: Re: Overfill Bottle

   
>Hmm.  I've been thinking of taking my 442 to Union Grove, and I know
>it would fail inspection for no overflow tank, so I'd have to either do 
>the bottle trick or go permanent with a Eldo tank.
>     
>But why do you need to change the cap when you do this?  Is there 
>a difference if you use a recovery system?
>     
>-Jeff
>jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
>     
>1970 442  4-Speed
>     
>
Hey Jeff.. I have a '68 Cutlass S Convertable that I just bought used. Am I
going to need an overflow recovery system for it to pass inspection?{among
other things...} Thanks..

Brad
bradbaker@worldnet.att.net

------------------------------

From: DELPROPO@EMUVAX.EMICH.EDU
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 19:43:26 -0300
Subject: The w-25 Air cleaner

On the subjet of repo w-25 hoods is the air cleaner .How are these and are they
worth the 450. dollars. I have an orriginal W-25 W-31 Hoo. Currently I use my
orriginal air cleaner and have made a foam seal that rest in its lip and
contacts the hood. In the center is a small air cleaner d. Actually it looksks
real good and to someone who does not know what the real one looks like it
looks like an orriginal item.....thanks  Greg 70 Cutlass

------------------------------

From: mike.blankenship@medaphis.com
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 19:48:32 -0300
Subject: RE: Year 1 Ram-Air Hood

My problem with buying the repro hood when I was looking for one was
after you buy the hood, pay for the drop shipping, buy the special hood
hinges, buy the screen, your not far off from the price of an original.

A guy in our club uses a boat paddle to hold up his repro hood at the
shows.

The originals are still out there, network with your Olds club guys,
one will turn up.

Mike Blankenship
66 442
69 H/O
70 W30
71 442 Convt
71 Cutlass s

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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #284
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