
oldsmobile-digest          Tuesday, 23 July 1996       Volume 01 : Number 244


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 00:18:02 -0300
Subject: Big car steering box... 

Bryce and all others interesteds:  Here is my response to a question asking
if the B & C cars used this box:

Chris, I am not really sure.  I would imagine that it should fit, but you
would have to compare them.  

Here's some backgroung:  As far as I know, GM produced 3 different boxes.  A
600, and 800, and an 808.  The 600 box has the round cover with the snap ring
and is good for a boat anchor.  The 800 box has a 4 bolt cover and is the
exact same size as the 600.  The 808 is a truck box and is phyiscally larger,
so they can't be interchanged.

I just looked at a 69 Camaro yesterday and it looks like the same box as in
my 79 Cutlass, so my best bet would be that you should have one since GM
would have saved a ton of money if they used the same style box on a variety
of cars..  

If anybody can verify this, please let us know...

Hope the info helped,
Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 18:31:27 -0300
Subject: Paint Stipe Blue Prints

Soory guys I havn't yet had a chance to bring the papers with me to work. I keep forgetting, it's been a 
very busy week. I will try and remember for tomorrow. So be patient, it's com'in.
- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 18:49:24 -0300
Subject: Re: Bob's 409 Pushrods

Robert J. Barry wrote:
.
...delete stuff
> 
> Not really. If you want, Mondello has a valve-stem checking tool (there is
> also a GM tool that does this) to check that the valve-stem height is within
> factory specs. The total pushrod movement is determined by the cam lift,
> which you should have from when you degreed your cam (you *did* degree your
> cam, didn't you?). To get the rocker's relationship to the valve stem
> correct, you don't really measure anything (except maybe preload); you make
> sure that the rocker tip is in the center of the valve stem at mid-lift, and
> this is something you eyeball, not really measure.
> 


Well, not really. When I got it I just threw it in and centered it to zero. I always dreaded the idea I having to degree 
the cam and finding out that it was too advanced or retarded. I hated the idea of having to dril a new cam sprocket pivot 
hole. I don't have a drill press and no one makes those multi-holed cam sprockets for olds engines. ANyway, I know the 
answer to my question is going to be no, but here it goes, isn't the cam lift what it says on the grind tag it came with? 
Mine is a Mondello special, JM16-18 w/ .474 lift.  How are you going to measure mid_lift without a dial indicator?

- --
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: Joanne Beausoleil <jbeausol@ftp.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 10:03:54 -0300
Subject: RE: OUT OF GAS

I had a similar problem with an i/o in a boat. It ended up being a hair line
fracture (crack) in the top of the gas tank. When the tank got below a certain
level, it wouldn't start unless I poured gas into the carb, and I was all set as
long as I didn't stop because the vaccum caused the crack to be a non-event.
But, as soon as I stopped, I was just sucking air and not gas.

- ----------
From: 	mike.blankenship@medaphis.com[SMTP:mike.blankenship@medaphis.com]
Sent: 	Friday, July 19, 1996 4:32 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	OUT OF GAS


 I have a problem thats been making me crazy for months.  My 71 442 rag top
refuses to start up after its been sitting for a couple of days and sometimes
just overnight.  All it takes to start it is to put just a little splash of
gas in the carb.  It will run run from then on, but if you don't put gas in the
carb I could crank for 15 minutes and still not get flow to the carb. I have
replaced all the rubber lines from the tank to the fuel pump, I have put
several "Auto Zone" brand fuel pumps and have swapped carbs from running cars
and still the problem persists.

If anyone has any suggestions, I would appreciate it.

Mike Blankenship
66, 70, 71 442's
69 H/O

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 19:34:19 -0300
Subject: Re: Gear ratios

James Thingwold wrote:
> 
> Does anyone have the rear gear ratios generally put in the Vista Cuiser's in
> '72?  It's a 10 bolt behind the 180 HP 350 & the Turbo-400.
> 
> Thanks much - Lisa Madsen
> '67 Delta 88 & '72 Vista Cruiser
> 
> Sincerely
> 
> James Thingwold
> Glass Line Newsletter
> 120 S Kroeger St.
> Anaheim, CA.  92805-4011  USA
> 

I'm guessing but I would think 2.73:1...
- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 13:40:23 -0300
Subject: NON-OLDS: EMail

All,

I anyone is interested in additional information on the word-wrap 
problem, send a message to me directly for a reply.

(Better, Dave?)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: "Andrew A. Senko" <senko@reston.ans.net>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 11:37:10 -0300
Subject: Re: Convertible Top Replacement

> To anyone,
>  
> My '71 Cutlass convertible is in need of a top replacement.  Any tips on
> things 
> to look out for when selecting a top?  My concerns are:
>  
>         - thickness
>         - rear window (glass) reusability
>         - re-enforcement at stress points. (My old top is split where the
>    
>           supports flex above the rear windows).
>  
> I've already had the hydraulics and motor replaced.
>  
> Cost is definately a factor in the replacement.  I've seen replacements in
> catalogues from $300-$400 and heard of shops charging up to $700.  What
> should 
> I expect to pay for labor if I order from a catalogue?
>  
> Thanks for any input to these questions.
>  
> Robert Iles
> '71 Cutlass Supreme Convertible

Robert,

I just had the top replaced on my 71 last week!  I had the same exact
splits in the old top that you describe.  I paid $580 parts (new
top, glass window, pads) and labor.  The top was made by Crown.  The shop I
went to uses Crown and another brand that I think is called Electon (sp?).
They claim that these are much better than the ones in Year One.  The Year
One catalog that I have (which is old) says their tops have a 54 month
warranty.  The Crown top that I had installed has a 72 month warranty
(6 years!) when "professionally installed".  So if you do it yourself, you
don't get the warranty, or that's the impression I was given.
The warranty was a selling point for me, so I didn't mind too much about
the cost.  Plus in three days I went from thinking about it, to having it
completely done.  If your rear glass is reusable then your cost will be
less than mine, but by how much I'm not sure.  I was replacing a plastic
rear window.
I've also been told that replacing a top takes a long time and that you
don't want to do it yourself.  Some of my friends have done it once and
refuse to do it again.

The installer said to leave it up for about five days to let the new top
stretch out.  Did I listen?  Of course not!  I drove to the beach with the
top down.  A day later I tried to put it back up.  When fully up, it was "a
few" inches from the lock.  I tried pushing, pulling, everything to get the
locks to meet.  What a pain in the rear!  I finally got the passenger side
locked by facing the rear of the car, grabbing the top frame, and pushing
my leg against the down jamb for leverage.  This was harder to do on the
driver's side due to that component that every manufacturer seems to put on
that side of the car, which incidentally always gets in the way.  I'm
speaking, of course, about the steering wheel.  Yes the steering wheel that
is digging into my back as I attempt my leg-leverage-against-the-door-jamb
trick.  Finally got it, and swore I wouldn't put the top down for the rest
of the weekend.  I know, all the straining must have flushed the blood from
my brain.
Put it down for the trip home.  It went up much easier this time.  Maybe
the installer was right and that I should let it stretch out.  You think
so?
- -- 
                    _
                    |\            Convertibles                     
     .__====-_._____|_\______         Rule!                        Drew Senko
     [   ___  |-     |  ___  \                           senko@reston.ans.net
     =\_//.\\_|______|_//.\\__)                  http://members.gnn.com/senko
_________\_/____________\_/__________________________________________________

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 12:19:56 -0300
Subject: Re: 70 350 engin nock 

>I have a 70 rocket 350 four barrel in my Cutlass Supreme. The engine 
>does not burn any oil and runs excellent except it pings during casual
>driving. I have reduced the timing to eight degrees and run premium fuel
>plus octane booster but the ping still shows up. The car runs very clean 
>and no blask smoke come from the tail pipes. Can any one provide some 
>info on what could be causing this

This is just anecdotal, but I had a friend who had one of those great
if-a-little-is-good-then-a-lot-is-better mentalities. He decided to run
premium along with mass quantities of octane booster and fried his plugs,
winding up with worse performance than when he started. This diagnosis of
trashed plugs came from the local mechanic, who put in a fresh set, told 
him to lay off the octane booster, and all was well after that. I know 
why you added the booster and I know you're not as dense as my friend, 
but does this story sound possible? How do your plugs look?

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 14:07:03 -0300
Subject: Is anybody out there? (list down again?) 

Is this list down again, or is this the rare day that *nobody* has posted
anything? (not likely...)

I guess I'll know when I don't get this message.

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 14:34:31 -0300
Subject: 455 Questions

What (if there is one) is the difference between a regular 455 and a
"455 Rocket"?  Were the "Rockets" painted red?  Would a '69 98 have
come stock with a "455 Rocket"?

------------------------------

From: <tc75918@hpr169.mdhc.mdc.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 15:17:33 -0300
Subject: Re: 455 vs 425

> 
> At 04:55 PM 7/19/96 -0400, you wrote:
> 
> Well, my dream is to drop a cut-down 425 crank into a solid-main 403 block,
> get 490ci with stock bore, and drop it in an '83 H/O. I'd like a 7000rpm
> *small-block* Olds, with 1hp/ci, putting out about 500hp but looking like a
> 180hp 307...
> 

Just how long is the stroke of a 425 crank?  To go from 403ci to 490ci, 
seems like it must be a lot (or is the 403 crank extremely short?).  And
the 455 stroke is even longer?

OK, I just searched through the FAQ.  425 has a bore of 4.125" and stroke
of 3.975", but that's all I could find.  What's the bore/stroke for a:

307?
350?
403? 

400?
455?

Can you switch cranks between small blocks as well?  Could you actually
cut a 425 (or any BB) crank down to fit a SB?  Isn't the 425 based on 
the older 39 degree block while a 403 block would be 45 degrees?  (In
case you haven't noticed, I *like* the idea of a 490ci SB.)  ;-)

- --Dan

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 14:25:04 -0300
Subject: Re: An Olds owner once again

At 04:01 PM 7/21/96 -0300, you wrote:
 That & 
>Sparky are the only reason that I put up w/800 messages/day.  
>SLTG
>
Sheesh, I've only gotten 3 messages today...where is everybody??
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 14:48:16 -0300
Subject: Cars

The other day someone was asking about a '68 442 for sale...check out
www.cacars.com, they have several Oldsmobiles listed there.  I think there
was 13 when I checked, only two newer than 1970.  
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Todd Hall <thall@en.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 16:49:13 -0300
Subject: no olds mail 

no mail from the olds list since yesterday....very unusual.

Did I get bounced off the list for some reason? Problem with the server?
Or are you guys all at a swap meet somewhere.

Guess I'll find out when I get/don't get this message.

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 17:18:09 -0300
Subject: Test

Trying to see if majordomo is awake.... sorry for the intrusion.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 20:05:11 -0300
Subject: Test Only

Loop test of CCN / MajorDummy.

No need to reply.  No need to send humerous remarks (unless your bored).

66T/M

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 18:05:30 -0300
Subject: Re: 455 vs 425 

In a message dated 96-07-19 23:54:00 EDT, you write:

<< But I must disagree
 with the statement that the 425 wasn't available in the 442 as the early
65's
 had them from the factory before the 400 became available.
  >>

Why wasn't the 400 available?  It was identical to the 425 except for the
bore.  I would be very interested in any documentation you may have on that.
 I owned an early '65 442 (my first new car!) and there was nothing to
indicate it wasn't a plain ol' 400.  Including performance. I was getting
beaten routinely by Q-Jet equipped '66's which led to the purchase of a '67,
which I still have.  The '67 eventually got a 425 all right - right off the
warranty pile from a friendly Olds dealer in San Antonio. Supposedly it had
overheated or blown a head gasket.  Whatever, I could find nothing wrong with
it, put in new rings and bearings, swapped the 442 heads and intake and
proceeded to kick a lot of automotive butt.

Installing 425's would have been a direct violation of corporate policy
limiting the mfr's to 400 CID. And being very involved with the dealers, drag
racing, etc. I would expect to have heard about it.  I am not and never was
"connected" with the Olds programs but I did know a lot of people who were.

I have come across several '65-'67 442's with 425's in them.  And they are
original engines.  But they did not some that way from the factory.  By the
end of the 70's it was very hard to find 400 pistons for a rebuild.  In all
the cases I am aware of (about 5), 425 pistons were available so the 400
blocks were bored 0.125" over and 425 pistons thus installed.

Did these early 425/442's have a different casting code?  Where can one find
info on this?  Is there documentation of this?  The '65 425 used a different
casting number and letter code.  What was the ID for the 442 425?

*******************
OK, when all else fails, call a _real_ expert.  I called the '64-'67 442 guru
of the Olds Club of America, Curt Anderson.  Curt has been involved with
these cars from day one and personally knows a lot of folks including Dale
Smith, the Olds engineer responsible for the much of the 442 and W-30
programs.  Curt says that he does not believe there was any planned use of
425's in '65. That is not to say one or more didn't happen.  If it did, it
was in all likelihood, as a "toy" or test bed, only.  Stuff that like that
happened a lot back then. No emissions laws for instance.  There was probably
a W-43 Hemi Olds wreaking havoc on the famous Woodward Ave. about '70.  But
they definitely were not factory installed.  Unfortunately!

The only instance of which he is sure something like this happened was in '66
when the drag team of Lutz & Lundberg of Holiday Olds had a '66 425, TH400
car "built" for them as a play thing. It was assembled as a test bed by Dale
Smith.  This car did _not_ originate on any assembly line.

Curt also would be very interested in any documentation you can provide.  I
would love to ID (and own) such a car. BTW, his phone number is 612-398-3079.
 He has forgotten more about these cars.....you know the rest.  Curt is a
very knowledgeable fellow and great to talk to.  Among other things, he has a
registry of sorts of which '66 W-30 cars are still around and where (only 54
made and I think about 20 known to still exist).

We'll both be in Atlanta in a couple of weeks.  Hope to see some you on the
list there.

Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 18:04:46 -0300
Subject: Re: OUT OF GAS -Reply 

In a message dated 96-07-20 01:42:11 EDT, you write:

<< Having to trickle raw gas into the engine or
 having to pump the accelerator 7 times in order to start an engine both
 indicate that the choke valve is not closing on the '71 and '72 discussed 
 earlier.   >>
  Aren't you forgetting the most common problem with the Q-Jet - leaking fuel
bowl plugs?  That produces the same exact scenario.

Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 18:04:28 -0300
Subject: Re: 455 vs 425 

In a message dated 96-07-19 23:06:27 EDT, you write:

<< I'd say that on the street, the  short-stroke motor would be on the low
end of its power curve when the  long-stroke motor is at the peak of it; if
it takes too long to get the  short-stroke motor into its power range (say
the car is a 5000lb land  yacht), then the long-stroke motor will be pulling
away right away.
  >>

Possibly.  But it ain't that simple.  These two wonderful motors, if using
the proper cam for each bore/stroke, would still be pretty darn close.
 According to the curves shown in the my Olds ~1972 parts illustration book,
the peak torque of the 425 is 480 lbs-ft for a '67 Toro and 510 lbs-ft for
the '70 Toro.  That's less than 6% difference.  

If we extend the "what-if" one step further, remember the 65-67 TH400 used
the switch-pitch converter.  The 425 equipped car would get a jump from the
looser converter thus off setting the small torque difference.  It would be a
very interesting luxo-barge drag race.

My dream motor would be a 425 bored .125".  That would yield a 4.25 X 3.975
bore & stroke and would yield about 445CI.  The oversquare bore would work
great.  The famous Buick 455 Gran Sport Stage I and II 455 motors were 4.3125
bore X 3.900 stroke to get their 455 CID.  They are _awesome_ performers, in
large part because of their oversquare bore/stroke. 

Tell you what.  How about a run between your 455 98 and Mike Frederick's '66
425 Toro?  The Toro's flame paint job alone would scorch that 98!

Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 18:03:33 -0300
Subject: Re: Traction help...was Re: My next driveway cover??? 

In a message dated 96-07-21 11:33:02 EDT, you write:

<< Any of you guy heard about/use the "No Hop Bars" from Lakewood?
 They bolt to the rearend housing where the upper control arm normally 
 would, then the upper control arm bolts to them.  This shifts the 
 mounting point of the upper control arm about 3 inches upwards.  I 
 bought a set thinking that it would be nice to have no wheel hop without 
 the bulky ladder bars hanging underneath the car. Anyways it's a little 
 late now seeing as I already bought them, but are these things any good?
 Will they cause undue wear on the forward diff. seal because of the 
 angle change, or will I be ok using them on the street?
 
 Thanks,
 Ken
 Cleveland, Oh
 1967 442 Convertible (hop along) >>

Ken, come on.  Don't buy the hype and ruin the street driven capability of
your car.

A list member described the article in Hot Rod (?) about a 9 second ElCamino
with _no_ wheelie bar slapper pinion angle adjuster fortiseth frammis on the
boxed left rear control arm b.s.

I've been running my '67 30 years, yes 30 years, this coming October.  It
currently turns low 11's on NOS.  And I have had a bunch '64-72 Olds' over
that time as well.

My TOTAL traction aids consist of Air Lift bags in the rear coils and
polyurethane bushings for the control arms.  And the Polyurethane is _not_
needed.  With 29x10.50x15 McCreary rubber and 4.10 gears my car does no
hopping - it moves instead because the tires bite.  Pro Stockers need
extensive chassis tweaking to maximize performance.  A street "A" body does
not.

If you have massive (or any) wheel hop look to improving traction.  If the
tire doesn't break traction it can't hop!  Simple as that.  If you have no
posi (or even if you do) put ~35 psi in the right rear bag and about 5-10 psi
in the left.

If you rear ratio is "long" such as 2.56 - 3.08, when the wheel breaks loose
the long gear is spinning the tire so fast it can bounce. But adding so
called "anti-hop" devices will not solve your problem.

The prescription: take two Air Lift Poly Air bags (such as available from
Summit et al) and call me the morning after you install as prescribed above..

Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 18:03:16 -0300
Subject: Re: Gear ratios 

In a message dated 96-07-20 11:05:54 EDT, you write:

<< Does anyone have the rear gear ratios generally put in the Vista Cuiser's
in
 '72?  It's a 10 bolt behind the 180 HP 350 & the Turbo-400.
 
 Thanks much - Lisa Madsen
 '67 Delta 88 & '72 Vista Cruiser
 
 Sincerely
 
 James Thingwold >>

Jim:

1. Check an Olds Service Manual.

2. If it isn't rusted off, there is a two letter code on the passenger side
tube to the right of the center casting (looking towards the front of the car
from the rear.

3. The simplest way = jack the up (_both_ rear wheels off the ground and use
safety stands!) merely count the number of driveshaft turns it takes to
effect one full rotation of the tire.

Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 16:27:36 -0300
Subject: test

testing...testing...testing...is the reflector down or what??
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 22:20:19 -0300
Subject: Loop Test

CCN / MajorDummy Loop Test
No need to reply.  
No need to send smart comments (unless you're bored).

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Ken <rottin@en.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 18:17:36 -0300
Subject: 67 frame swap.. 

First question: I saw a 442 Convertible sitting in a parking lot.  It 
has been there for over a year.  The top is gone so you can imagine how 
bad the interior is.   It has "442" emblems on the back of the rear 
fenders.  Does the location of these emblems indicate a 65 or 66?

 Second question: The frame of the above car seems solid.  Would it be 
possible to swap this frame with the frame on my 67' 442 Convertible?  
My 67' frame is abit weak on the drivers side.

 Third question: My 67 442 has a 425 in it.  If I swap the motor from 
the car in question #1 will there be any way to tell it is not the 
original 400? 

Thanks,
Ken
Cleveland, Oh
67' 442


 I have a 67 442.. the frame is abit weak on one side.

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 19:35:50 -0300
Subject: Re: 490 cid small block

Does anyone know the specifics of the "cut down 425 crank" conversion?  
How do they balance the assembly afterwards, do they go to an internal 
balance setup?  All info I've seen doesn't add up to a "drop-in 
conversion" what with the Chevy rods you need, custom pistons, and custom 
just about everything else.  Also, 490cid?  How is this figure derived?  
Supposedly, you'd need to fill the block to go 454cid...

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: R4C442@aol.com
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 20:10:14 -0300
Subject: Re: 455 vs 425 

Well, I guess this isn't going to settle any bar bets because I can't
remember where I read that information ( I sound like White House staff don't
I ?). I can remember the 90th in Lansing, however, where right next to me in
class was a 65 convertible (black) with a 425. The owner was from Cleveland
and his name was Mitch something . He told me he was happy to hear  that I
was aware of this engine placement as no-one else did (and that was 9 years
ago). I'll keep trying to recall where I read it.    Maybe a museum/factory
person is out there who can document or at least corroborate my testimony!

Ron Forsee
65 442    Original Owner (I'll be buried in it!)

------------------------------

From: DELPROPO@emuvax.emich.edu
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 20:08:18 -0300
Subject: Re: 70 350 engin nock 

Thanks Robert J Barry, I will look into the information you gave. With 10.25 to
one compression Mobile 93 gas can usually prevent pinging in my car also,
but it is never consistent.       

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 20:26:54 -0300
Subject: Anybody out there? 

Hey, just checking to make sure everything's working OK.  AOL told me I have
no unread mail.  Couldn't beleive that for a Monday.

Paul

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 22:22:11 -0300
Subject: subscribe 

subscribe

------------------------------

From: boonedoc <boonedoc@netaxs.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 18:35:56 -0300
Subject: Re: Cost of a '70 442 W30

Nobody seems to have answered the poor fellow's original question: 
is $6800.00 a good price or not? Personally, I'm not sure, because I 
paid too much for my 1971 442 convertible back in 1990; however, 
for a W30 with high compression, and the owners and dealer known, 
my guess is it is not a bad deal. Good luck on your bid!


boonedoc

------------------------------

From: Meyer Stolberg <propel@frontiernet.net>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 22:25:31 -0300
Subject: Yet another Quad 4 owner... 

> BTW, This makes at least 3 Quad4 owners here.  Watch out Toros, 
> our virus us starting!!!!

Can I be #4?

Meyer
91 Calais W-41 Quad442 
1/4 mi @ 14.6 sec @ 95.7 mph

------------------------------

From: Meyer Stolberg <propel@frontiernet.net>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 22:25:32 -0300
Subject: Yet Another Quad 4 Owner.. 

> BTW, This makes at least 3 Quad4 owners here.  Watch out Toros, 
> our virus us starting!!!!

Can I be #4?

Meyer
91 Cutlass Calais Quad 442 W-41
14.6 sec @ 95.7 mph in 1/4 mile (not bad for 138 ci engine)

------------------------------

From: mike.blankenship@medaphis.com
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 22:48:13 -0300
Subject: Re: Cost of a '70 442 W30

I must have missed the original e-mail.  If the car has all the W-30 parts
intake, F-heads, ect. and is a pretty solid car its probably worth it.
I bought a 70 W30 post car 2 years ago that was only missing the 
original carb and air breather lid for $5800, but it had a terrible paint
job and a color change at that.

Mike
66, 70, 71 442's
69 H/O
____________________________________________________________________________-

Nobody seems to have answered the poor fellow's original question: 
is $6800.00 a good price or not? Personally, I'm not sure, because I 
paid too much for my 1971 442 convertible back in 1990; however, 
for a W30 with high compression, and the owners and dealer known, 
my guess is it is not a bad deal. Good luck on your bid!


boonedoc



- ----- End Included Message -----

------------------------------

From: Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 00:05:46 -0300
Subject: Re: An Olds owner once again

>It is always nice to hear trained/experienced advice like this.  That & 
>Sparky are the only reason that I put up w/800 messages/day.  I'll file 
>this message away too.

Ditto!

I would also like to add that if anyone has any cable questions to please 
post them. I will try to answer any questions regarding cable systems in 
your Oldsmobile. Types of cable systems include:
- - Throttle controls (Accelerator/Cruise)
- - Shifter controls
- - Seat controls
- - Window Regulation systems (bell/crank & cable)
- - Hood Release controls
- - Parking Brake controls
- - HVAC cables
- - Gas Filler Door controls
- - Sunroof Drive controls
- - Speedometer Drive controls

Lots-n-lots of cables in them cars...
I have been known as "The Cable Guy" around Metro Detroit for too long 
now. So, as of a month ago, I am on the job hunt here in the area for 
primarily Sales Engineering positions. I have figured it's time to do 
something different in the Automotive field here locally. The hunt is 
going well for that 20% pay raise AND a company car as my personal goal. 
Maybe I won't land a 1996 Olds 88 LSS but I would settle for a Cutlass...
Regards,
Mike


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Michael R. Hall                                  Ortonville, Michigan
E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com                   OCA #17903
The Oldsmobile Stable:    
     1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
     1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...
         Brought to you by a Apple Power Macintosh 7100/80
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

------------------------------

From: Todd Hall <thall@en.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 23:23:43 -0300
Subject: lost mail 

just a trickle of Olds mail now (10pm EST....4 msgs). I did not get my post
from this afternoon about not getting any Olds mail. Did someone resubscribe
me? Or is this a problem on my side? My ISP has off and on problems with the
news server, but mail is usually not a problem.

BTW: The 4-4-2 lives again!!!!  I got her started tonight for the first time
in about 10 years. I pulled the Mallory Unilite and reinstalled the original
distributer. The Unilite was the last thing I did to the car all those years
ago and could never get it to run right so I thought I would eliminate that
problem. After fussing with the timing for about an hour with no results I
ran out and bought a new set of plugs and it fired up immediatly. Engine
sounds great, like music to my ears....scared the sh*t out of my wife and
the cats & dogs tho' maybe I should reconnect the exhaust. :) Compression
test showed good compression across all cylinders. 
Next on the list is to flush out the cooling system, replace the rear seal
and change the tranny fluid and filter so maybe I can get her on the road a
little.

Todd Hall <---*very* happy to be Oldsmobiling again!
'72 4-4-2 

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 02:24:52 -0300
Subject: Re: Yet another Quad 4 owner...

Meyer Stolberg wrote:
> 
> > BTW, This makes at least 3 Quad4 owners here.  Watch out Toros,
> > our virus us starting!!!!
> 
> Can I be #4?

Hmmm.  You still got a ways to go -- but we're watchin ya!

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Todd Hall <thall@en.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 23:36:43 -0300
Subject: Books/Manuals 

I came across an online bookstore that handles over a million titles.
Try http://www.amazon.com and do a keyword search on oldsmobile, they have a
pretty good selection of manuals and other olds related titles.

I'm still looking for a good shop manual for my '72 4-4-2, any suggetions?
I'm currently using Chilton's Cutlass 70-84 manual which leaves a lot to be
desired.

Thanks,

Todd
thall@en.com

------------------------------

From: JJF97@uno.cc.geneseo.edu
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 00:44:23 -0300
Subject: Resto  Tips .....

i will try to post a resto tip each "working" day for as long as i possibly
can.  If any of you have formal tips that apply to all types of autos,
please add on to this....  (i want to see how it goes and what people think).
some of these tips you may have heard before, some of the tips may seem stupid;
some might be "common sense" but remember, some "new guys" might find this 
helpful.     Here goes for the first of a series....




thoroughly painting throttle return springs (or other springs) may be made
easier if you stretch them between two nails (or posts) mounted on a base.
this way the inside and the outside of the coils get coted with paint.


Resto Corner

------------------------------

From: mike.blankenship@medaphis.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 00:03:05 -0300
Subject: Resto  Tips .....

if you want to keep that new cadium plated brake booster looking good
for as long as possible, put a light coat of car wax on it from time to time.
__________________________________________________________________________

thoroughly painting throttle return springs (or other springs) may be made
easier if you stretch them between two nails (or posts) mounted on a base.
this way the inside and the outside of the coils get coted with paint.


Resto Corner

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 19:24:53 -0300
Subject: Re: lost mail

Todd Hall wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW: The 4-4-2 lives again!!!!  I got her started tonight for the first time
> in about 10 years.  After fussing with the timing for about an hour with no results I
> ran out and bought a new set of plugs and it fired up immediatly. Engine
> sounds great, like music to my ears....
> 
> Todd Hall <---*very* happy to be Oldsmobiling again!
> '72 4-4-2

Ooooooh, I know that feeling.  I hadn't started my Toronado since 1983 
until this spring.  What a sweet sound, what a lovely car! 
- -- 
SLTG

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #244
********************************

