To:	oldsmobile-digest @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET @ ABTLAB
Date:	08/16/96 12:10:54 PM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #268


oldsmobile-digest          Friday, 16 August 1996       Volume 01 : Number 268


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 14:36:26 -0300
Subject: Re: build sheet location help 

My '77 Delta's was hanging on the driver's door pull behind the door panel. 
I think you should check the door panels last since the panel is held to 
the door with those stupid ribbed plastic push ins.  A pain to remove 
without breaking, and a pain to replace in the panel.

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

- --------------
Can anybody clue me in as to where the build sheet in a 1980 Cutlass would
be? 

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 13:53:54 -0300
Subject: unsubscribe oldsmobile 

unsubscribe oldsmobile

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 13:05:50 -0300
Subject: Re: build sheet location help 

>My '77 Delta's was hanging on the driver's door pull behind the door panel. 
>I think you should check the door panels last since the panel is held to 
>the door with those stupid ribbed plastic push ins.  A pain to remove 
>without breaking, and a pain to replace in the panel.

What you need is the handy dandy Special Tool for these. Actually you
can get 'em just about anywhere; mine looks like an oversized screwdriver
with a flat, forked or notched end on it. I use it a _lot_ and it avoids
breaking the fasteners and tearing the back of the door panels. Buy one.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei-2@mail.idt.net>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 14:17:17 -0300
Subject: Re: 9/96 issue of Hot Rod mag 

At 01:29 PM 8/15/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Anyone got the September '96 issue of Hot Rod Magazine?  That issue
>itself is fairly worthless as far as content goes.  It's devoted mostly to
>the '96 Power Tour.  There's a nice '6? 442 convertible on page 28,
>
It's a 67. There's also an olds on page 43, does anyone know the year?

 >Dave Isho --- davei-2@mail.idt.net
     >67 Cutlass CS Convertible
     

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 13:12:31 -0300
Subject: Re: Shop Manuals 

>I hear a lot of talk about shop manuals.  What exactly are these?  I've
>looked in all my catalogs, and they are really expensive ($60 - 80). 
>What's in them that makes them worth $60 - $80?  I'm assuming they
>cover a lot more than Chiltons =-).  But for $60, it should cover
>*everything*.  If it does, I'll splurge and get one...

Going by the manual I just got from Helm for my '93 Bonneville: They
(mine came in 2 volumes, each the size of a major city phone book)
do indeed cover *everything*. Heck, mine even has instructions on how
to reupholster the seats. But more to the point, every single page of
the manual is for your own car; you don't have to waste time flipping
through pages on unrelated brands or models. And in reading it, you
really get a sense of how dead-serious they take the job; everything
is explained down to the last excruciating detail. Everything has a
specific place, position, alignment, torque setting, you name it,
even silly little plastic retainer clips that you wouldn't give a
second's thought to; everything is documented and illustrated.

I consider these books for my car simply mandatory.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 17:30:48 -0300
Subject: Re: Shop Manuals

Blaine Sanders 5483 wrote:
> 
> I hear a lot of talk about shop manuals.  What exactly are these? 

The manufacturer's own manual for professional (?) shop use.

> I'm assuming they cover a lot more than Chiltons =-).  

Everything covers more than Chiltons.  Made the mistake of getting the 
"C" book for Jeannie's Lincoln.  It covers 14 models over 15 years in 400 
pages.  That works out to 1.9 pages per model/year.  Troubleshooting the 
carb was real useful!  Duh!  I'll never buy another one.  I get more 
information off this list in a day.  

> But for $60, it should cover *everything*.  

It does -- that's what it's for.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 15:48:31 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: build sheet location help 

After taking four panels off I got so good at using two screwdrivers and a 
putty knife, I could almost do this while asleep!  I suppose I could also 
notch a putty knife of putty chisel (thick blade).  The putty chisel is 
also a good and cheap gasket scraper.

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

- ------------
>My '77 Delta's was hanging on the driver's door pull behind the door panel. 
>I think you should check the door panels last since the panel is held to 
>the door with those stupid ribbed plastic push ins.  A pain to remove 
>without breaking, and a pain to replace in the panel.

What you need is the handy dandy Special Tool for these. Actually you
can get 'em just about anywhere; mine looks like an oversized screwdriver
with a flat, forked or notched end on it. I use it a _lot_ and it avoids
breaking the fasteners and tearing the back of the door panels. Buy one.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: lew@kbp.com
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 15:36:36 -0300
Subject: trofeo

Does anyone know the history of the Toronado trofeo?? is there a
difference between that and a toronado? I have only seen ONE and next
one I saw I bought! .. Its a 1987 mint condition.. any other trofeo
owners here??

Lew

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 15:08:10 -0300
Subject: Re: HEIs, Hardened Seats, Etc.

Bob,
I don't have a comment on HEI's, but I do have a comment on that slightly 
modified yellow 66 you brought to Atlanta. Is the hood factory? Did all 66 
w30's 
sound like that? Nice car Bob.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 15:22:29 -0300
Subject: Re: Hood Insulation Pad

> >Does anyone know what kind of adhesive to use when installing a hood
> >insulation pad? I have no idea.  Please help!
> 
> I'm a little mystified. All the pads I've ever seen were held on with
> plastic discs clipped through the pad into a hole in the subframe. If
> you try to glue it on, won't the pad simply tear away the outer layer?
> Was the original glued on? What year/model of car are we talking about?

Yes, I replaced mine in Big Red, and even though the kit had new plastic
disks (plus some generic ones I bought at Auto Palace), it just didn't seem
to stay in place the way I wanted.  So a li'l 3M spray adhesive, sprayed 
on a few spots on the hood, helps hold it in place.  FWIW.



Tim (2 Days and Counting until Vacation Time!) Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'88 Cadillac Brougham, a.k.a. 'Big Blue' -- Olds 307 Powered!!
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 16:25:53 -0300
Subject: FAQ Info Request - 1897 - 194? 

Ok, so no one has responded to my request for info for the FAQ.  It's the 
Nationals, I hope!  Anyways, let me go through each area of need, and let 
me know what info I currently have.

The information you contribute will be credited to you.  Please include 
your e-mail address so I can include that also.


AREA OF INFORMATION:
1987-19??
o Olds straight 8, 6, 4, x cylinder engine info: Block, head, crank, other 
ids/codes/prefixes 


CURRENT CONTENTS:
Nothing.  Nada.  The FAQ started out with V8 info and models, specifically 
1964 
- - 1990.  I have since added the '49-64 V8s.  It's time to add engines from 
the 
very beginning.

All right, who has some of this information?  Maybe I should just get Dennis' 
book and pick out some info?  Send your contribution today!

Thanks,

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

------------------------------

From: Tom Simpson <71202.1443@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 15:25:18 -0300
Subject: unsubscribe oldsmobile

	

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 16:38:30 -0300
Subject: FAQ Info Request - '49 - '64 info 

Ok, so no one has responded to my request for info for the FAQ.  It's the 
Nationals, I hope!  Anyways, let me go through each area of need, and let 
me know what info I currently have.

The information you contribute will be credited to you.  Please include 
your e-mail address so I can include that also.  Sorry for the long post.


AREA OF INFORMATION:
1949 to 1964 info:
o Vins, block color(s)
o Block, Head, Crank, other ids/codes/prefixes


CURRENT CONTENTS:
- ----- What CIDs -----
These engines were produced between 1949 to 1964 in 303, 324, 371, 394 
CID and referred to as the J-2 block.
CID   Years       Bore   Stroke   VIN   Color
- ---   -----       ----   ------   ---   -----
303   '49 - '53   3.750  3.4375
324   '54 - '56   3.875  3.4375
371   '57 - '60   4.000  3.6875
394   '61 - '64   4.125  3.6875

BLOCKS 1949 - 1964
- ----- Identifying the Block -----
The engine code number can be found on the ID plate on the left front 
door hinge post.  The ID plate breaks down as follows:

Digit   Meaning
- -----   -------
  1     Number of cylinders (6 = V6, 8 = V8)
  2     Engine series (engine id)
  3     Model year
  4     Plant (M = Lansing, MI)
 5-10   Vehicle build number

On 1959-1963 engines, the 371 has gold valve covers, and the 394 has 
green valve covers.  This could easily be changed though.

- ----- Block ID/Codes -----
            Engine          Casting
Year(s)     Series    CID   Number    Color
- -------     ------    ---   -------   -----
'49 - '53             303
'54 - '56   7, 8, 9   324            
'57 - '58   7, 8, 9   371          
'59 - '60   7         371             Gold
            8 or 9    394             Green
'61 - '63             371             Green
            2, 5, 8   394             Green
'64         4         394   585786

QQQQQ -> Does anyone know if the Engine Series Number is cast or stamped 
on the block or if there is any type of head id or code?


HEADS 1949 - 1964
- ----- Identifying the Head -----
- ----- Head ID/Codes, Casting Numbers -----
- ----- Head Detailed Listing -----
- ----- Intake, Exhaust Port Sizes -----
- ----- Combustion Chambers, CC's, Interchange -----


CRANKS 1949 - 1964
- ----- Identification -----
- ----- Strengthening/Machining -----


INTAKE MANIFOLDS 1949 - 1964

EXHAUST MANIFOLDS 1949 - 1964


Thanks,

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 16:42:41 -0300
Subject: FAQ Info Request - Aurora V8 info 

Ok, so no one has responded to my request for info for the FAQ.  It's the 
Nationals, I hope!  Anyways, let me go through each area of need, and let 
me know what info I currently have.

The information you contribute will be credited to you.  Please include 
your e-mail address so I can include that also.  Sorry for the long post.


AREA OF INFORMATION:
Aurora V8 Info:
o Block, head, id, specs, performance


CURRENT CONTENTS:
ENGINES 1994 - PRESENT
This is the Aurora DOHC V8 engine, the A8.

The words "Manufactured by General Motors exclusively for Oldsmobile" 
appear on the intake manifold's tuned runners.

- ----- What CIDs -----
CID    Years      Bore   Stroke  VIN  Color  Notes
- ---    -----      ----   ------  ---  -----  -----
4.0L   '95 -      
(244)


BLOCKS 1994 - PRESENT
- ----- Identifying The Block -----


HEADS 1994 - PRESENT
- ----- Identifying the Head -----
- ----- Head ID/Codes, Casting Numbers -----
- ----- Head Detailed Listing -----
- ----- Intake, Exhaust Port Sizes -----
- ----- Combustion Chambers, CC's, Interchange -----


INTAKE MANIFOLDS 1994 - PRESENT

EXHAUST MANIFOLDS 1994 - PRESENT


Thanks,

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 01:07:08 -0300
Subject: Re: Hood Insulation Pad

mefco@sprynet.com wrote:
> 
> Fernando,
> I just took the original off the hood of my 70 and it was glued on. I've put
> blankets on before with the square clips and it hung down where the clips
> weren't.
> 
> Art Fuller

Art, 
	I think the glue may have been used more as an assembly aid rather 
than to permantly hood the 
insulation on. Because I too seem to find some glue protions on my hood when I 
removed the insulation, 
but if you notice the glue is usually putwhere no clip goes. If the insulation 
sags down then it's 
possible that it won't retain it's shape, then if you wantto continuing using 
the same piece of 
insulation then by allmeans use glue, however you may want to reconsider this 
at sometime down the 
road.

Question: more of an observation though. Most cars I see at show (small club 
gatherings) I notice that 
people removed the insulation from the hoods and just proceeded to piant the 
underneath balck. In my 
opinion I would prefer the hood without insulation because I think it looks 
better, what do think? Does 
you experience match mine?
- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: JJF97@uno.cc.geneseo.edu
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 17:14:11 -0300
Subject: Resto  Tips  .....

old fuel lines can often be restored by simply cleaning them with a mild steel
wool.

Resto  Corner

- --joe ferrero

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu> (by way of ndg@traverse.com 
(Nielsen Design Group))
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 16:20:49 -0300
Subject: The Yard of Coloma 

And now, a word from Chris Witt:

- ---PARTING OUT---
1967 Cutlass Supreme  Holiday Coupe [33817]
Build date code: 03B
Trim 973-B, with codes "W 2X6  5Y" below that. Black Vinyl top.

   Bad:
Very smashed rear end. Wasted: RBumper, decklid, most of taillights. any
sheetmetal rear of doors. Rearmost beltline trim. Frame bent/ broken just ahead
of rear upkick.  Wasted fuel tank, mangled "Premium Fuel Only" gas cap.

   Good:
+ Primo chrome, very nice condition- LHMirror, beltline trim back to &
including the RH wheel well trim [LH WWT is fair, a bit bent], hood spear,
FBumper, hood front trim, window separator chrome/rubber pieces, etc. What
appears to be the original ANTENNA on the RF fender- in VG cond.

+ Good hood, front clip. Had less-than-typical rust on doors & fender bottoms,
repaired with filler. *Beautiful* headlights, HL trims, radiator support, stone
shield, inner fenders, etc.

+ All glass is intact & pretty. All 4 original T3 headlights! [with chrome
"eyelids" over all 4! Alas, no curb feelers...]

+ Runnable correct original "394417-3" casting ID 330-4V, 310HP engine, #4
heads. Beautifully "rebuilt" with a can of fine Silver spray paint [heh].
Correct? 7027036 4V carb in trunk. One Taiwan chrome rocker arm cover. Original
air cleaner, needs minor dent removal in bottom part. 17054937 carb is on
engine now.

+ Jetaway Switch-Pitch 2spd ATrans.

+ Presumably OK Differential, haven't inspected it yet, assumed 3.08 open,
might be better.

+ PS, PBrakes. Newish front brakes- drums.

+ Very nice light blue interior: Correct '67 bucket seats, console & shifter,
door panels, rear seat, side panels. DASH PAD is very nice. Dash plastic has
been sacrificed to the Aftermarket Radio Goddess... is otherwise OK.

Anyone wishing to partake in the parting out of this rare unpitted and low-rust
specimen, contact me soon. Good parts like this go fast. Call or send a list of
wants. Include $ for best service- no reasonable amount refused.
- --
Chris  B. Witt
1303 W. Miller Rd.
Lansing, MI 48911

wittchri@pilot.msu.edu
517-882-9747 evenings or leave message anytime.

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 17:24:30 -0300
Subject: FAQ Info Request - W Machines 

Ok, so no one has responded to my request for info for the FAQ.  It's the 
Nationals, I hope!  Anyways, let me go through each area of need, and let 
me know what info I currently have.

The information you contribute will be credited to you.  Please include 
your e-mail address so I can include that also.  Sorry for the long post.


AREA OF INFORMATION:
W Machines
o W-30, W-31, W-33, W-34, W-35: 1-2 paragraph description for the overall 
line with 1-2 paragraphs describing changes/highlights for each year.


CURRENT CONTENTS:
W MACHINES
- ----- W-30 -----
A 442 performance option.

1966:
1967:
1968:
1969:
1970:
1971:
1972:

1980:
Only 886 made. The paint scheme is the same as the 79 H/O. Externally 
the only differences that I can see between a 79 H/O and the 80 442 W-30 
is that the 80 has 4 headlights and a rear deck spoiler standard. There 
are 442 badges on the fenders, rear trunk and interior door panels. 350 
with 3a heads.

[ Thanks to Jason Labay for this information ]

- ----- W-31 -----
A 442 w/350 CID performance option.

The W-31 was built in both 1969 and 1970.  In addition, while not called 
W-31, I think an equivalent vehicle was available and called the "Ram 
Rod 350".

1969: 
1970: 

- ----- W-32 -----
1969:
1970:
[ The W-32 is covered.  Anyone wanting to review it, please let me know. ]

- ----- W-33 -----
Delta 88 performance option.

1970:

- ----- W-34 -----
Toronado performance option.

1969:
High-lift-cam 400 hp 455ci.  The W-34 could be identified by cutouts in 
the rear bumper for the dual exhaust.  Other than a different front 
grille design, the '69 is nearly identical to the '68.

1970: 

- ----- W-35 -----


Thanks everybody!

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 01:26:28 -0300
Subject: Re: Req: Gear recommendations for street driving

Todd Morris wrote:
>>......
>Last night coming home from our Olds club meeting I caught rubber hitting 3rd 
which was fun. 
>....
> 
> 
> Todd Morris
> 71 442


Todd, I not sure I understand, can you eleborate a little.
- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 17:27:08 -0300
Subject: FAQ Info Request - Manual Trans 

Ok, so no one has responded to my request for info for the FAQ.  It's the 
Nationals, I hope!  Anyways, let me go through each area of need, and let 
me know what info I currently have.

The information you contribute will be credited to you.  Please include 
your e-mail address so I can include that also.  Sorry for the long post.


AREA OF INFORMATION:
Manual trans: applications, ids, casting number, identification


CURRENT CONTENTS:
- ----- Manual Transmissions -----


Thanks!

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 16:56:36 -0300 
Subject: Re: Paint codes

From: "Gary Bowles" <bodog@napanet.net>

>On my '70 Olds 442 W-30, the paint codes are 78 and 78.  I know the W-30's
>are supposed to have a stripe.  What does this code decipher as?
>Thanks!!!

My black car with gold stripes shows 19 19 in the body tag.  I think this is
upper body color/lower body color on "normal" cars.  I dont think the stripes
on 442's merited a code.

- -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

1970 442  4-Speed

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey.Easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 17:03:22 -0300 
Subject: Re: '70 Force-air cleaner

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>

>     I was at a small car show tonight and met a guy who has an original
>     '70 Rallye 350.   Anyways, it's got the factory ram-air hood,
>     but when he bought it it had an aftermarket air cleaner on it.  So, he
>     needs an air cleaner.  They have the top half listed at Supercars
>     Unlimited for $350, and unless anyone here can recommend a better
>     source or price, that's what he'll probably get.

I picked up an olds original for $200 at a swap meet.

>     The problem is that that's only the top half.  He's fairly confident
>     that the bottom half was just a normal unit available on other 4bbl's.
>      Was it?  If so, does anyone know what application he might find one
>     of thse on, or how to identify the correct bottom half?  Being able to
>     buy the top half don't help much when you can't buy the bottom half.

The flapper assembly sits on the existing bottom half of the air cleaner
assembly.  Two springs hold it to brackets screwed under a RAC bolt.
I think the original bottom half for OAI cars had extra holes punched in
the bottom to let rain water drain out.

A smaller diameter top pan screws on under the flapper and on top of
the new (smaller) air filter. If he doesnt have it, expect to shell out
another
$50 or so for a repo one.  Seems kinda high for a round piece of
sheetmetal..

 -Jeff
jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com

1970 442  4-Speed

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 15:52:40 -0300
Subject: Re: Hood Insulation Pad 

>In my 
>opinion I would prefer the hood without insulation because I think it 
>looks better, what do [you] think? 

I think it also offers some heat protection for the paint on the hood,
especially against, shall we say, "minor" engine fires.  :-)  I'd leave
the insulation in place...  My $.02 only...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 17:09:40 -0300
Subject: Re: Hood Insulation Pad

Fernando,
I'll only put it back on cars I'm going to show. You know, ones that are going 
to stay clean.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: mike.blankenship@medaphis.com
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 17:15:01 -0300
Subject: Re: '70 Force-air cleaner

The reproduction air cleaners offered by most vendors has a rough texture
finish rather than smooth like the originals.  I heard Brothers offers an
exact duplicate of an original for $499, but I bet it would take 6 months for
them to get it to ya.

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     I was at a small car show tonight and met a guy who has an original
>     '70 Rallye 350.   Anyways, it's got the factory ram-air hood,
>     but when he bought it it had an aftermarket air cleaner on it.  So, he
>     needs an air cleaner.  They have the top half listed at Supercars
>     Unlimited for $350, and unless anyone here can recommend a better
>     source or price, that's what he'll probably get.



- ----- End Included Message -----

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 17:23:18 -0300
Subject: Re: Hood Insulation Pad 

At 03:52 PM 8/15/96 -0300, you wrote:
>>In my 
>>opinion I would prefer the hood without insulation because I think it 
>>looks better, what do [you] think? 
>
>I think it also offers some heat protection for the paint on the hood,
>especially against, shall we say, "minor" engine fires.  :-)  I'd leave
>the insulation in place...  My $.02 only...
>
>Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431


I agree, although I think the "main" purpose of the pad is
to deaden the sound of the engine and just make the car
sound quieter.  But it should keep the hood cooler, too.


Dan



************************************************
Daniel A. Gulino
Associate Professor and Graduate Chairman
Department of Chemical Engineering
Ohio University
Athens, Ohio  45701-2979
(614) 593-1495
(614) 593-0873 (fax)
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://www.ent.ohiou.edu/che/faculty/gulino.html
************************************************

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 17:23:09 -0300
Subject: RE: Gear recommendations for street driving

All this gear talk means nothing without knowing the tire diameter I'm =
afraid. With stock dia 14" wheels ( about 24-26"tire)I would not go any =
steeper than 3.55 but with 15" wheels (tires would be between 26 -30") =
you may want to go with as much as a 3.91. Also are you racing the car =
at all because race cars would need even more gear than this.

- ----------
From: 	Robert J. Barry[SMTP:rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU]
Sent: 	Thursday, August 15, 1996 7:36 AM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Req: Gear recommendations for street driving

Well, now I've gone and done it! I build up my 403, port the heads, put =
in a
.450/.472 cam, Performer Intake, and now have a real performance car on =
my
hands- idles rough, goes fast, makes lots of noise. Great, except that =
I've
got 2.41 rear gears! which means that I *start* getting into the power =
band
of this motor at 75mph, and my speedo's needle stops spinning well =
before
the motor wants to.

Theoretically, this should be lots of fun (and is at times), but this is =
a
daily driver, and cruising around town at a lopey idle (I really can't =
drive
the thing below 40mph in 3rd gear, which is where I do most of my =
driving)
gets old real quick.

So, I want to move up to a lower (higher numerically) rear gear, but =
don't
want to go too crazy with it. I was thinking 3.23 or 3.42 rear gears, =
and
kind of leaning toward the 3.42's. It has a TH400, so I have to keep =
sane
without the overdrive, since I do take long trips in the car.

So, what is everyone's experience with 3.42 rear gears? Is this what I
should go with, or should I move up to 3.73's? Or down to 3.23's? =
Opinions,
advice, etc. all appreciated.

Oh, and I want to use a posi carrier from a '76 Monte 10-bolt w/3.31 =
gears
or something like that. Does anyone have any reason to suspect that this
carrier would not fit in my '78 Electra's 10-bolt rear?

BTW, I was recommended a guy to set up this rear gear; he wants $150 to =
do
it, including the bearings. Is that better/comparable/worse than what =
others
have paid? Yeah, he is a professional mechanic, and campaigns a C/SA =
Cobra
Jet Mustang, so he's not a total yahoo.


- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 17:25:12 -0300
Subject: RE: Req: Gear recommendations for street driving

You are talking roughly about 0.10 -0.20 seconds difference between the two in 
a quarter mile

.  Net is I'm not 
sure how much difference there is between 3.23 and 3.42 except a few hundred 
RPM on the  
freeway.... 
 
 
Todd Morris 
71 442 

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 17:35:05 -0300
Subject: RE: The Yard of Coloma

Back again eh?

------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei-2@mail.idt.net>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 17:36:15 -0300
Subject: Re: Resto  Tips  ..... 

At 05:14 PM 8/15/96 -0300, you wrote:
>old fuel lines can often be restored by simply cleaning them with a mild steel
>wool.
>
>Resto  Corner


then spray them w/ clear lacquer to keep them looking good.

 >Dave Isho --- davei-2@mail.idt.net
     >67 Cutlass CS Convertible
     

------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei-2@mail.idt.net>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 17:35:32 -0300
Subject: Re: Resto  Tips  ..... 

At 05:14 PM 8/15/96 -0300, you wrote:
>old fuel lines can often be restored by simply cleaning them with a mild steel
>wool.
>
>Resto  Corner


then spray them w/ clear lacquer to keep them looking good.

 >Dave Isho --- davei-2@mail.idt.net
     >67 Cutlass CS Convertible
     

------------------------------

From: Todd Morris <tmorris@bt1dc18e.bet.ibm.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 18:53:42 -0300
Subject: Re: Req: Gear recommendations for street driving 

 
 
Sure, "catching rubber" means you get excess tire spin.  It happens when you 
dump the 
clutch when RPMs are kinda high.  AKA burning rubber.  Pretty easy to do off 
the line in 
first gear, a little harder going from first to second, a fundamental test of 
muscle car 
status when going from second to third, and very impressive if done from third 
to fourth. 
In fact, anybody done it third to fourth?  That would imply a wonderfully 
brutish setup. 
 
   
>.Todd Morris wrote: 
>>>...... 
>>Last night coming home from our Olds club meeting I caught rubber hitting 
3rd which was fun. 
 >.... 
>  
>  
> Todd Morris 
> 71 442 
   
   
>Todd, I not sure I understand, can you eleborate a little. 
- --  
>Regards 
>Fernando Proietto 
 
Todd Morris 
71 442

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 17:57:10 -0300
Subject: Misc stuff Digest #267 

With apologies to Chris Witt, who used this format for replies, now that I
get the digest form, it is a lot easier.  I can't match his quality or wit
(pun intended) but here goes.

> As far as when the vehicle reaches speed then there probably is no
difference
>between the two for cooling.  (Fixed vs clutch fans)

My experience does not agree with this.  Recently I changed a large diameter
(18") flex fan for a much smaller "low hp loss" fan.  My car ('67 W-30 w 455,
NOS, etc) ran hotter at _all_ speeds.  A bunch hotter.  Re-installed the
larger fan and low operating temps returned.  I repeated the experiment on
our other classic Olds, a '70 SX convertible, 455 with AC, etc.  Same exact
results.  Cruising a 25+ mph slowed the temp increase down, but the engine
never _stays_ as cool as if a good source of air flow is supplied at all
times.

As I have stated in previous posts, my experience is that a large fan with a
matching shroud is the only way to ensure consistent cooling.  My experience
also results in an _opinion_ that a flex fan, while noisy, works well with no
expensive (and heavy) electric fans or viscous clutches to fail.

Shoot, if you drive a built big block and can hear the fan, it ain't built
enough!
 
                                           :-)


>My understanding is that you should also remove at least one other
>spark plug, so that back pressure from the other cylinders does
>not interfere with the reading from your cylinder?

To get an accurate compression reading you must remove _all_ the spark plugs.
 The reading is dependent on a lot of factors including cranking speed.  If
you have cylinders of varying compression and leave plugs in the cranking
speed will vary.  The only way to test them all under equivalent conditions
is to take all the plugs out.

>>When I need to remove them, I always have to take the drum
> off with the hub   It would be a whole lot
> easier if I could just take off the drum!
> --
> Dave Paulison         

>>Dave:

>>They're not separate.  you must remove the wheel bearings to get the 
>>drum off on the front.

>>Bill Culp
>>Decatur, Alabama

I think you mean remove the hub from the drum.  Removing the bearings from
the hub doesn't help getting the drum off the hub.  BTW many C**vies used
slip-on front drums in the same fashion as the rear drums.  The hub centers
the drum nicely, the holes for the wheel studs are larger than the studs.
 Remove wheel, remove drum, inspect/repair brakes.  Can anyone offer a reason
why if it's OK for the rear drums why the front can't be handled the same
way?

>>The rad was $500, the trans cooler was $125 and the large fans were $170
>>each. A lot of money I know, but the car runs cool ALL the time, not to
>>mention a couple extra horses for the motor not having to run the water
pump
>>fan. 

So does my built 455 with a $30 flex fan and junk yard fan shroud (about $100
nos/repro).  Radiator is a stock version 4-core. The flex fan reduces hp drag
as engine speed increases by "flexing" to a lower angle.  No hp draw from 30+
amps current draw for electric fans. Simple, cheap fixes _usually_ work best
in the long run.  My engine temp doesn't go over 200 idling at 1000 RPM in
Drive in 93 degree, 80% humidity FL weather.  Really.  Wish I could say the
same about the interior of the car. Sure miss that AC when driving the beast
'67.

>>So, I want to move up to a lower (higher numerically) rear gear, but don't
>>want to go too crazy with it. I was thinking 3.23 or 3.42 rear gears, and
>>kind of leaning toward the 3.42's. It has a TH400, so I have to keep sane
>>without the overdrive, since I do take long trips in the car.

>>So, what is everyone's experience with 3.42 rear gears? Is this what I
>>should go with, or should I move up to 3.73's? Or down to 3.23's? Opinions,
>>advice, etc. all appreciated.

First choose your tire since tire diameter also effects engine speed vs car
speed.  Go for the biggest tire you are comfortable with (visual appeal,
street worthiness, suspension travel, etc.)  The larger the tire diameter the
larger the foot print and the better the traction.  Then pick the gear that
gets you to the range of engine speed you want.  Running all day long at
3,000 rpm shouldn't hurt anything.  My car runs about 65 mph at 3,000 with
4.10 gears and 28.5 inch tires.  I get about 13 mpg from a 455, assuming I
don't play, which is hard to avoid.  There are formulas for calculating
engine rpm at a given car speed and tire diameter.

>>Of course, you should remove all the spark plugs from the engine, and jam
>>the carb at WOT when doing a compression test, so there shouldn't be any
>>danger of starting the engine.

If all the spark plugs are removed, where is the vacuum signal being produced
to pull air/fuel into the cylinders for combustion which, since there are no
plugs, can't be ignited in any case?  Removing all the plugs is sufficient.

 
> Does anyone know what kind of adhesive to use when installing a hood
> insulation pad? I have no idea.  Please help!
> Thank you.
> 
> Brad Ross  OCA# 026076
> 71 Delta Royale

>There is no glue for that. Your not supposed to glue the insulation, it is
held in place >with mushroom 
>clips. If you glue it it will first make a mess and second the outer layer
will tear.
- - -- 
>Regards
>Fernando Proietto

None of the aftermarket replacement hood insulators I have bought from
various restoration part sources will stay anywhere near put with the
mushroom retainers alone.  The factory insulators, when you could still get
them, came in their own GM cardboard boxes, full size and very stiff.  The
factory definitely used some stick-um, but not much.  Just a squirt here and
there to maintain the stiff insulator in place.

The aftermarket stuff is folded into a shrink wrap plastic bag.  After you
fold it out it sags every which way.  You can buy contact cement in auto
stores (3M is best) or crafts stores and upholstery supply shops.  It is a
pain in the butt!  The stuff is just like paint, overspray goes everywhere.
 If anyone has a better solution for installing these floppy pieces of junk
I'd love to hear it.  Of course, I might have to use paint stripper to get
all the old stickum off! :-[

>>I hear a lot of talk about shop manuals.  What exactly are these?  I've
>>looked in all my catalogs, and they are really expensive ($60 - 80). 
>>What's in them that makes them worth $60 - $80?  I'm assuming they
>>cover a lot more than Chiltons =-).  But for $60, it should cover
>>*everything*.  If it does, I'll splurge and get one...

>>- -Blaine
>>'72 Cutlass Supreme

>>P.S. - Where's the best place to get one for '72 Cutlass?  Does Fusicks
>>have 'em?  I still haven't got my stinkin' catalog from them!


Wel, gee Blaine, I don't know what you mean by _everything_.  Won't give any
suggestions on the birds and the bees :-) but they beat the living h--- out
of Chiltons, Motor, etc.  These "Shop Manuals" are the books issued by
Olds/GM for use by dealership mechanics. So they cover just about every
aspect of replacement and repair of every system in your car.  Including
electrical diagrams in color to match the wiring of your harness.  They are
worth their weight in unobtainium.

Another book you might want to look into is an Assembly Manual.  These told
the factory workers how to assemble each car.  They include hundreds of
diagrams showing how every piece of a car was supposed to look, where screws,
bolts, wiring harnesses, etc. should be routed.  Both can save you many, many
hours of frustration whether you are interested in a correct stock car or
not.  Even for new cars, the first thing I try to purchase are the service
manuals.  Get 'em, you won't be sorry.  

If you can find a readable original shop manual I would suggest one.  The
color reproduction and printing of the reprints is not as good.  Buy a
reprint for show, no greasy fingerprints.

These books are sold by most of the restoration supply companies.  You
mentioned Fusicks.  They are the _best_ to deal with, hands down.  Very
honest.  If you don't like what they send, they will make it good.  They
probably didn't send your catalog because they were at the OCA meet in
Atlanta.  Unlike places like Year One, Brothers, etc., Fusicks is still a
family run business.  

There are many other sources too.  Check Bryce's page at 442.com for more
names/adresses.  Most now offer free catalogs.  They all carry some parts but
they can differ in which area they specialize.  Brothers Automotive seems to
have more hard parts (new and used), Year One has mostly restoration parts
with only a few hard used parts, Fusicks has the most small reproduction
parts (and guaranteed best quality) and so forth.  I would _NEVER_ buy a used
part unseen.  Buyer beware.

You will also find gobs and gobs of people selling auto related literature
advertised in Hemmings Motor News.  Most have been around a long time and are
very reputable. The prices you quoted for shop manuals is the norm.  Assembly
manuals go for about $30.

Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL
U.S. FDA Regulatory Affairs   (407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 11:03:09 -0300
Subject: Re: Misc stuff Digest #267

At 05:57 PM 8/15/96 -0300, you wrote:

>So does my built 455 with a $30 flex fan and junk yard fan shroud (about $100
>nos/repro).  Radiator is a stock version 4-core. The flex fan reduces hp drag
>as engine speed increases by "flexing" to a lower angle.  

I tend to shy away from flex fans.  Both my dad and I had one lose a blade
while driving a car.  Not a pleasant experience.  Big hole in radiator and
nice dent from the underside of the hood.  Not to mention the off-balance
fan!  FWIW...
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 18:58:31 -0300
Subject: FAQ Info Request - Big Block Info 

Ok, so no one has responded to my request for info for the FAQ.  It's the 
Nationals, I hope!  Anyways, let me go through each area of need, and let 
me know what info I currently have.

The information you contribute will be credited to you.  Please include 
your e-mail address so I can include that also.  Sorry for the long post.


AREA OF INFORMATION:
1964 to 1976 BB:
o BB block info for A, B blocks: casting # id combos
o BB port sizes: floor, roof, width, heigth
o BB crank casting number, cid, year combos
o BB piston disk volumes


CURRENT CONTENTS:
- ----- Big Block Block ID/Codes -----
ID/                       Casting
Code   Year(s)     CID    Number   Notes
- ----   -------     ---    ------   -----
  A    '65         425    381917 ???   1st year, big cars.
  B    '65         400    389298   442 only, one year only.
[ Are these the correct casting numbers? ]


- ----- Intake, Exhaust Port Sizes -----

Big Block
 Head    Floor    Roof    Width    Height
 ----    -----    ----    -----    ------
  A
  B
  C      0.470"   2.85"   1.37"    2.37"
  D
  E
  F
  G      0.470"   2.85"   1.37"    2.37"
  Ga
  H
  J
  Ka
Note: Floor was measured above the block/head surface for all heads.


CRANKS 1964 - 1990
- ----- Identification -----
Casting
Number   CID   Year(s)    Notes
- -------  ---   -------    -----
384722   
390370   
397363   455   '68 - '70  Nodular iron.  'N' on front weight.
397363   455   '72 - '76  Plain iron.  No 'N' on front weight.
400943   455   '68        Forged Steel.


PISTON, CONNECTING RODS 1964 - 1990
- ----- Piston Dish Volumes -----
               dish    dish    calc'd   msr'd
CID      CR    dia.    depth   vol(cc)  vol(ci)  Notes
- ---      --    ----    -----   -------  -------  -----
E400 FT          0       0         0
L400 LC      
L400 HC      
425 HC-T  10.5   2.75    .047      4.5      4.5  Tornado/Starfire piston
425       10.25  2.75    .065      6.3      7.0  Std. HC 425 piston
455       10.25  2.85    .150     15.7     15.0
455       10.0
455        9.0   3.010   .350     40.8     37.0
455        8.5                             40.0


Thanks!

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 18:58:36 -0300
Subject: FAQ Info Request - Small Block Info 

Ok, so no one has responded to my request for info for the FAQ.  It's the 
Nationals, I hope!  Anyways, let me go through each area of need, and let 
me know what info I currently have.

The information you contribute will be credited to you.  Please include 
your e-mail address so I can include that also.  Sorry for the long post.


AREA OF INFORMATION:
1964 to 1990 SB:
o SB block info: casting # id combos, ids other than 1-5 and 2A-4B
o Detailed SB head listing: Valve sizes, applications, uniquenesses
o SB port sizes: floor, roof, width, heigth
o SB crank casting number, cid, year combos
o SB intake manifolds: id, cast #, year combos
o SB exhaust manifolds: id, cast #, year combos
o SB piston dish volumes


CURRENT CONTENTS:
- ----- Small Block Block Codes -----
ID/                    Casting
Code   Year(s)   CID   Number    Notes
- ----   -------   ---   -------   -----
1      '64       330   381917 ???
2      '65       330   381917 ???
2      '68-70??  350   381917 ???
3                330   381917 ???
4
5
2A     '76-81    260
2B               260
3A
4A     '77       403   557265    Solid main webs likely for these three
                       553990    casting numbers.
                       554990    
4B     '77-79    403   557265    Windowed main webs always.
       '85       307   556607


- ----- Head Detailed Listing -----
The 4 or 6 digit casting number is found around the center exhaust side 
rocker arm cover bolt or among the rockers on really early heads [pre-
68].  Really late heads have #'s like 4417 or such, they might be out 
closer to the top of the exhaust port.

ID  Casting Number
- --  --------------
1            Intake:         Exhaust:

2            Intake:         Exhaust:

3 389394     Intake:         Exhaust:

4 394497     Intake:         Exhaust:

5 397742     Intake:         Exhaust:

6 403859     Intake:         Exhaust:

7 409147     Intake:         Exhaust:

7a 409147    Intake:         Exhaust:

8 411929     Intake:         Exhaust:

10 550362    Intake: 1.517   Exhaust: 1.305
260 only.

2A           Intake: 1.517   Exhaust: 1.305
260 only.

3A 554716    Intake: 1.880   Exhaust: 1.507

4A 554717    Intake: 2.000   Exhaust: 1.507
1977 - 79 403's only.  This head's BB size chambers will reduce the CR 
(and power) of other SBs.

5A 3317      Intake:         Exhaust:
Used on the regular hydralic lifters engines.  This head is preferred 
for 307 performance use because there are port matching problems between 
aftermarket intakes and exhaust headers with the 7a heads, and 5a heads 
are rumored to flow slightly better.  So, if you switch from 7a to 5a 
heads you should get the intake and exhaust manifolds from the donor 
engine.

6A 5844      Intake:         Exhaust:

7A 0142      Intake:         Exhaust: 
Used on the newer hydraulic roller-lifter engine.  Possible port 
matching problems with aftermarket intakes and exhaust headers.  Rumored 
to flow slightly less than 5a heads.


- ----- Intake, Exhaust Port Sizes -----

Small Block
 Head    Floor    Roof    Width    Height
 ----    -----    ----    -----    ------
   1
   2
   3
   4
   5     0.435"   2.45"   1.30"    2.03"
   6
   7
   7A
   8     0.435"   2.45"   1.30"    2.03"
   10
   2A
   3A
   4A
   5A
   6A
   7A
Note: Floor was measured above the block/head surface for all heads.


CRANKS 1964 - 1990
- ----- Identification -----
Casting
Number   CID   Year(s)    Notes
- -------  ---   -------    -----
556607   307   '85


INTAKE MANIFOLDS 1964 - 1990
- ----- Detailed Listing -----
    Casting
ID  Number   Year(s)  Application/Notes
- --  ------   -------  -----------------
?   381920   65       330 1V.
[Big Blocks are covered.  Anyone wanting to review it, please let me know.]


EXHAUST MANIFOLDS 1964 - 1990
[Big Blocks are covered.  Anyone wanting to review it, please let me know.]


PISTON, CONNECTING RODS 1964 - 1990
- ----- Identification -----
High compression pistons will have a sharp angled notch cut into the 
crown.  Low compression pistons have a round cut in their crown.  
Pistons with both are probably special (eg. '70 W-31 pistons).

- ----- Piston Dish Volumes -----
               dish    dish    calc'd   msr'd
CID      CR    dia.    depth   vol(cc)  vol(ci)  Notes
- ---      --    ----    -----   -------  -------  -----
260
307
330 HC    10.25  2.42    .063      4.7      5.0
330 LC     9.0   2.5     .240     19.3     19.0
350 HC    10.5                                   W-31 piston (til '70??)
350 HC    10.25                            14.0
350 LC     9.0                                   At least til '70
350 LC     8.5   2.85    .230     24.0     24.0
403        8.5   


Thanks!

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

------------------------------

From: curly@sgi.net
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 18:37:48 -0300
Subject: RE: Gear recommendations for street driving 

i would go with at least 3.73 in that setup to feel a significant difference
in power. 

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 18:37:37 -0300
Subject: RE: Gear recommendations for street driving 

At 04:23 PM 8/15/96 -0400, you wrote:
>All this gear talk means nothing without knowing the tire diameter I'm
afraid. With stock dia 14" wheels ( about 24-26"tire)I would not go any
steeper than 3.55 but with 15" wheels (tires would be between 26 -30") you
may want to go with as much as a 3.91. Also are you racing the car at all
because race cars would need even more gear than this.

Oops. Of course, that makes a big difference. They are 15" 235/70 tires;
about 28" diam., I think. I would like to keep the highway cruise speeds
under 3000rpm, so 3.91's would be out of the question; even 3.73's would
probably be too much (unless someone here is running a set of those with no
OD and just absolutely *loves* them).

What I'd really like to hear are personal testimonies from people with gears
in the 3.23-3.73 range.

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 18:28:56 -0300
Subject: RE: Req: Gear recommendations for street driving 

At 04:25 PM 8/15/96 -0400, you wrote:
>
>You are talking roughly about 0.10 -0.20 seconds difference between the two
in a quarter mile
>
>.  Net is I'm not 
>sure how much difference there is between 3.23 and 3.42 except a few
hundred RPM on the  
>freeway.... 
> 
>Todd Morris 
>71 442 

Right, but I'm not going to be going down a dragstrip (probably ever; not
any close by). I was concerned with keeping the motor in the powerband
around town and on the highway. The cruising speed of this car will be
65-70mph, so it is merely academic what rpm's I'd be turning at 100mph. I
also want something responsive around town.

Even with the stock 403's low-low-low end torque, the 2.41's were really too
low for driving around town; even the slightest bit of throttle would put me
above 40mph (which was around 1200rpm). If I could keep the motor in the
1300-2000rpm range for around town driving (30mph-50mph), I'd be happy.
Cruising the highway at about 2500rpm wouldn't be uncomfortable either.

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 17:38:02 -0300
Subject: Re: Shop Manuals 

>What's in them that makes them worth $60 - $80?  I'm assuming they
>cover a lot more than Chiltons =-).  But for $60, it should cover
>*everything*.  If it does, I'll splurge and get one...

One other thought on this: Even if it's for an older car, you might try 
ordering the original GM book from Helm first and see if they surprise 
you. Mine must have been sitting on the shelf for three years waiting 
for me to order it before I did so, and I'd think the demand for manuals 
might go _up_ somewhat as the cars age and need repair more...? I don't
know how long Helm keeps the books around before recycling them, selling
'em off in bulk or whatever, but it might be interesting to find out.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Andrew A. Senko" <senko@reston.ans.net>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 18:54:46 -0300
Subject: signature (cars)

Look at this signature that I saw on UseNet rec.autos.antique:

======================================================================
From: martin-1@worldnet.att.net (John Martin)

[snip article]

John

68 Cutlass Targa Top (I Made) 350R
71 Cutlass 403R
======================================================================


A 68 Cutlass Targa!  Whaddaya think of that?
- -- 
Drew

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 17:56:23 -0300
Subject: Re: signature (cars) 

>A 68 Cutlass Targa!  Whaddaya think of that?

*urp*  Wonder what happens when he jacks up one end, then opens a door...?

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 19:20:46 -0300
Subject: Re: Shop Manuals -Reply 

>One other thought on this: Even if it's for an older car, you might try 
>ordering the original GM book from Helm first and see if they surprise 
>you. 

Got a phone #?  Address?  
Thanks!

- -Blaine
'72 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 22:44:56 -0300
Subject: Re: Misc stuff Digest #267

BobH592058@aol.com wrote:

> My experience does not agree with this.  Recently I changed a large 
> diameter(18") flex fan for a much smaller "low hp loss" fan.  My car 
> ran hotter at _all_ speeds. 
> Cruising a 25+ mph slowed the temp increase down, but the engine never 
> _stays_ as cool as if a good source of air flow is supplied at all 
> times.

No doubt, Bob, but this seems like an airflow problem to begin with.  

Let's think about this.  How fast does the fan push air?  30mph?  50mph? 
No matter how fast, at some point the air-speed from the car's forward 
motion has to exceed the air-speed of the fan.  And at that point, the 
fan would no longer be aiding the flow of air but restricting it.  If the 
only way to keep the motor cool is by constantly running the fan than 
this indicates that airflow through the grill to the radiator is poor.

So if a non-clutch fan's what you gotta do, then that's what you gotta 
do.  But if your concern is cooling AND horsepower, I'd be looking at 
ways to get better airflow into the front end.

The 66 Toro (with airflow so poor Olds made bigger holes the next year) 
           ...and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: mike.blankenship@medaphis.com
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 19:45:12 -0300
Subject: Re: build sheet location help

I have a 87 Cutlass Salon and there is a sticker under the trunk lid listing
all kinds of codes.  It must be the build "sticker" because it lists a paint
code which matches my color.

_______________________________________________________________________________


On Wed, 14 Aug 1996, Jason P. Labay wrote:

> Can anybody clue me in as to where the build sheet in a 1980 Cutlass would
> be? I looked behind the rear seat, under the rear seat and deadener, under
> the carpet on both rear floor pans and under the drivers seat carpet. Only
> side I did not check was under the carpet on the passenger side. Where did
> everyone with 80-87 Cutlass's find their build sheets? Thanks......

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 19:55:44 -0300
Subject: RE: Gear recommendations for street driving

3.73 with a 28" tall tire..... no sweat. You'll love it. 

- ----------
From: 	Robert J. Barry[SMTP:rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU]
Sent: 	Thursday, August 15, 1996 5:37 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	RE: Gear recommendations for street driving

At 04:23 PM 8/15/96 -0400, you wrote:
>All this gear talk means nothing without knowing the tire diameter I'm
afraid. With stock dia 14" wheels ( about 24-26"tire)I would not go any
steeper than 3.55 but with 15" wheels (tires would be between 26 -30") you
may want to go with as much as a 3.91. Also are you racing the car at all
because race cars would need even more gear than this.

Oops. Of course, that makes a big difference. They are 15" 235/70 tires;
about 28" diam., I think. I would like to keep the highway cruise speeds
under 3000rpm, so 3.91's would be out of the question; even 3.73's would
probably be too much (unless someone here is running a set of those with no
OD and just absolutely *loves* them).

What I'd really like to hear are personal testimonies from people with gears
in the 3.23-3.73 range.

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 18:59:31 -0300
Subject: How to Order GM Manuals from Helm, Inc. (Was Re: Shop Manuals) 

>>One other thought on this: Even if it's for an older car, you might try 
>>ordering the original GM book from Helm first and see if they surprise 
>>you. 
>
>Got a phone #?  Address?  
>Thanks!

(sorry for the delay; hadda run out to the parking lot...)

Okay, from the inside back page of a '93 Bonneville owner's manual:

        Helm, Inc.
        P.O. Box 07130
        Detroit, MI  48207

        ORDER TOLL FREE: (800) 782-4356
        (Mon-Fri 8:30 am-6:00 pm Eastern Time)

        If further information is needed, write or call (313) 883-1430
        ORDER INFORMATION NOT AVAILABLE THROUGH THE TOLL FREE NUMBER
        (i.e. If you don't know the "Publication Form Number" for the
        manual you want, call the Area Code (313) number instead. -- ACG)

There are some Product Service Publications (their term; sounds like TSBs)
available as well but the details on the order form are a bit vague.

Orders to Canada must be paid in U.S. funds and require an additional $6.50
for P&H. Requests for manuals in French should be directed to Canadian
General Motors dealerships.

Good luck! Believe me, when you start flipping through the original
service manual for your own make, model and year of car, you'll see
it was worth the effort to get it... If anyone does order from Helm,
let us know how you make out, and how old a manual you bought.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 13:22:47 -0300
Subject: Re: FAQ Info Request - Small Block Info

At 06:58 PM 8/15/96 -0300, you wrote:

>CURRENT CONTENTS:
>----- Small Block Block Codes -----
>ID/                    Casting
>Code   Year(s)   CID   Number    Notes
>----   -------   ---   -------   -----
>1      '64       330   381917 ???
>2      '65       330   381917 ???
>2      '68-70??  350   381917 ???
>3                330   381917 ???
>4

The original SB 350 in my 69 has ID/Code 2, casting number is 385558.
Bronze in color. 

In the Year One catalog, they have a chart.  It doesn't appear to be
completely accurate to me.  Here it is:

CID      Year     Casting#/Letter

330      64-67    381917 / A
350      68-72    385558 /
394      64       585786 /
400      65       389298 / B
400      66-67    390925 / E
400      68-69    396026 / G
425      65-67    389244 / D
455      68-72    396021 / F
455      72-76    396021 / Fa (small capital A subscript)

They list a letter (instead of a number) under the casting letter for the
330 (it should be a number for a small block, right?)  The other two SB's
(350 & 394) had no listing for the letter.  Don't know about the BB's listed
there.  

There is also a chart for engine block color:

CID      Year     Paint Color

225      64-65    Blue
250      66-71    Gold
330      64-67    Gold
350      68-72    Gold
400      65-69    Bronze
455      68-69    Red
455      70-72    Blue

I don't know what the difference between gold and bronze is.  My 350 has the
original paint on it; I always thought it was bronze.  It doesn't _look_
like gold.

Hope some of this helps.  It's all from Year One catalog #R325, page 105.
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 13:29:45 -0300
Subject: Re: build sheet location help

At 07:45 PM 8/15/96 -0300, you wrote:
>
>I have a 87 Cutlass Salon and there is a sticker under the trunk lid listing
>all kinds of codes.  It must be the build "sticker" because it lists a paint
>code which matches my color.

I think that's a "Replacement Parts" sticker.  I have a friend with a '87
Monte, and he has that sticker on the bottom of his trunk lid.  I think it's
used by the dealer to identify replacement parts (duh!), which vary based on
options.  I think.  Someone here will know for sure...
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 21:08:20 -0300
Subject: Re: Paint codes 

19   19  is upper and Lower colors.  The only way to determine color of 
stripe is by the build sheet.  My 72 build sheet read 
LW   UP   ST   W
63     63    62   63   deciphered as lower saddle bronze

and upper as saddle bronze     st = strip as saddle tan   w =? saddle bronze
I haven't figured out what the w is yet.


hope this helps
W MACHINES
(MARK PRINCE)

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 21:13:46 -0300
Subject: Re: Woodward Cruise (were to meet) 

In a message dated 96-08-13 16:49:41 EDT, you write:

<< my name is Mark know as W MACHINES.  I will be at the Woodward
 street cruise.  Me and about 7 other Olds enthusiasts will be gathering at
 the shopping center at 13 mile and Woodward.  We all live here in Metro
 Detroit area and we are leaving at about 0430 a.m.  to make sure we get a 
 excellent spot for the cruise.  My olds is a copper color 72 442 W-30.
 The other cars will be a orange 69 442, green 72 Supreme, white 71 W-30,
 blue 70 442, 72 black and gold W-30, red and black 70 W-30 and a red 63 
 starfire convertible.  You are more than welcome to join us,  so if you have
 any questions call me at 313-336-8135 this week and I will give you more
info. >>



W MACHINES (MARK PRINCE)
72 442 W-30 RACE ROCKET

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 17:00:42 -0300
Subject: Re: 9/96 issue of Hot Rod mag

Blaine Sanders 5483 wrote:
> 
> Anyone got the September '96 issue of Hot Rod Magazine?  T
> my little home town is on the front cover!  They were driving through St.
> George, UT when they took the picture, northbound on I-15 out of Las
> Vegas.  Sorry.  Just thought it was cool... =-)
> 
> -Blaine
> Blaine:

Some of you are so sentimental.  I just don't know about you Yankees

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

P.S.  When do you think they will do my town?

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 17:08:46 -0300
Subject: Re: Shop Manuals

Andrew C. Green wrote:
> 
> I consider these books for my car simply mandatory.
> 
> Andrew C. Green            

You need one before you ever open the hood.  I even buy a set when I 
purchase a new car.  Some are better than others, but GM has printed 
some indespensible ones.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 22:15:39 -0300
Subject: Re: FAQ Info Request - Small Block Info

On Thu, 15 Aug 1996, Dave Paulison wrote:
> The original SB 350 in my 69 has ID/Code 2, casting number is 385558.
> Bronze in color. 

Sorry, if it's original, it's supposed to be gold.

> There is also a chart for engine block color:
> 
> CID      Year     Paint Color
> 
> 225      64-65    Blue
> 250      66-71    Gold
> 330      64-67    Gold
> 350      68-72    Gold
> 400      65-69    Bronze
> 455      68-69    Red
> 455      70-72    Blue
> 
> I don't know what the difference between gold and bronze is.  My 350 has the
> original paint on it; I always thought it was bronze.  It doesn't _look_
> like gold.

The 400 bronze looks more like a metallic orangey-brown. No mistaking it 
for Olds gold once you've seen it. Not many of them around though so 
there aren't many of them to be used for comparison. David, I'd use the 
Year One chart for the FAQ. Looks good.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 17:37:38 -0300
Subject: Re: Misc stuff Digest #267

Mike Frederick wrote:
>   But if your concern is cooling AND horsepower, I'd be looking at
> ways to get better airflow into the front end.
> 
> The 66 Toro (with airflow so poor Olds made bigger holes the next year)
>            ...and Mike
> 
> --
> Michael R. Frederick, CEO          

And those holes are called, "eggcrate rules".

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 23:11:14 -0300
Subject: Re: build sheet location help 

In a message dated 96-08-14 22:11:28 EDT, you write:

<< Where did
 everyone with 80-87 Cutlass's find their build sheets? Thanks...... >>

Found one of these in the rear seat cushion springs of our '77 C/S.

Had an '81 Toronado where it was up above the headliner.  Dealer took out the
headliner to install a new sunroof gasket and it was taped to the back of the
headliner.  

Some of these have been found abover the gas tank?  Hoping that's where mine
is on the '72, cause I had the whole interior out and couldn't find it.

Paul

------------------------------

From: mike.blankenship@medaphis.com
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 23:21:12 -0300
Subject: Toothbrush

To: Bill Culp
    Decatur, Alabama


Is it true there is only one toothbrush in Alabama?
and that one belongs to someone from Georgia.


Mike Blankenship
Kenesaw, Georgia

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 23:49:41 -0300
Subject: Re: Shop Manuals

They do cover everything. I bought one for my 75 H/O and 80 442 at a swap
meet last week. Both were used, but in excellent shape for $30 each. Don't
pay that high price. Let me know what you need and I can buy it at the hugh
Canfield swap meet here in Ohio at the end of September for around $40 give
or take a few. There are alot of pictures and detalied instructions in
there. Dealers used these in their repair shops.

At 02:02 PM 8/15/96 -0300, Blaine Sanders 5483 wrote:
>I hear a lot of talk about shop manuals.  What exactly are these?  I've
>looked in all my catalogs, and they are really expensive ($60 - 80). 
>What's in them that makes them worth $60 - $80?  I'm assuming they
>cover a lot more than Chiltons =-).  But for $60, it should cover
>*everything*.  If it does, I'll splurge and get one...
>
>-Blaine
>'72 Cutlass Supreme
>
>P.S. - Where's the best place to get one for '72 Cutlass?  Does Fusicks
>have 'em?  I still haven't got my stinkin' catalog from them!
>
>
>
>
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com)
1980 4-4-2 W-30....1 of 886 produced                                       
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25....H/OCA #0278A            
1988 Camaro IROC Z-28
- -------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 23:49:39 -0300
Subject: Re: build sheet location help

At 02:36 PM 8/15/96 -0300, David Brown wrote:
>My '77 Delta's was hanging on the driver's door pull behind the door panel. 
>I think you should check the door panels last since the panel is held to 
>the door with those stupid ribbed plastic push ins.  A pain to remove 
>without breaking, and a pain to replace in the panel.

I know what you mean about those plastic push in's. They are inexpensive to
replace though. Autozone and paint and body shops sell them cheap.. 
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com)
1980 4-4-2 W-30....1 of 886 produced                                       
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25....H/OCA #0278A            
1988 Camaro IROC Z-28
- -------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 00:09:15 -0300
Subject: Re: Toothbrush 

In a message dated 96-08-15 22:32:49 EDT, you write:

<< Is it true there is only one toothbrush in Alabama?
 and that one belongs to someone from Georgia. >>

Sorry, can't resist this one:

Did you know that the toothbrush was invented in Alabama?
If it were invented anywhere else, it would have been called a teethbrush.

Or this one:

What's 50 feet and has three teeth?
The funnel cake line at the Alabama State Fair.

Sorry, no offense intended - hope you're good at taking a joke!

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 00:03:20 -0300
Subject: Re: OCA Nat's 

In a message dated 96-08-15 08:40:20 EDT, you write:

<< I've looked for several years for a Cutlass flattop wagon and found one in
the 
 swap meet area. I looked many times and finally decided I couldn't buy and
fix 
 one to that condition for what he was asking. It was the white 72 that Eric 
 Dammann brought with him. >>

Having trouble remembering this one.  Only wagon I remember was the '67 on
the trailer in the corner of the upper lot of the swap meet.  Where was the
white one?  Sorry I wasn't around the car, would have liked to have met you
in person.  Too many people, too many things to see, not enough time.  Still
can't believe it's over already!

Paul

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 00:15:10 -0300
Subject: Re: signature (cars) 

At 04:56 PM 8/15/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>A 68 Cutlass Targa!  Whaddaya think of that?
>
>*urp*  Wonder what happens when he jacks up one end, then opens a door...?

I imagine it would make it much easier to park, what with the resulting 80"
wheelbase...

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 00:15:13 -0300
Subject: Re: FAQ Info Request - W Machines 

At 04:24 PM 8/15/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Ok, so no one has responded to my request for info for the FAQ.  It's the 
>Nationals, I hope!  Anyways, let me go through each area of need, and let 
[snip]

Here's a few bits of info... as always, subject to correction.

>----- W-31 -----
>A 442 w/350 CID performance option.
>
>The W-31 was built in both 1969 and 1970.  In addition, while not called 
>W-31, I think an equivalent vehicle was available and called the "Ram 
>Rod 350".

The W-31 was *not* a 442 option (442's didn't receive the 350 until 1972),
but a Cutlass Option. In 1969 the W-31 was called the "Ram Rod" (with the
cool pistons sticker).

>1969: 
>1970: 
>
>----- W-32 -----
>1969:
>1970:
>[ The W-32 is covered.  Anyone wanting to review it, please let me know. ]
>
>----- W-33 -----
>Delta 88 performance option.
>
>1970:

The 390hp 455 option, which was also the police package pursuit motor. This
was simply the motor option; suspension and trim upgrades were separate 
options.

>----- W-34 -----
>Toronado performance option.
>
>1969:
>High-lift-cam 400 hp 455ci.  The W-34 could be identified by cutouts in 
>the rear bumper for the dual exhaust.  Other than a different front 
>grille design, the '69 is nearly identical to the '68.

and different rear fenders (squared off, not sloping down to the bumper)

>1970: 

Same motor as '69, except that there was a "GT" option with the 400hp motor
(apparently the car came in a white and gold paint scheme). The fender
arches also changed into flares, and Olds did away with hideaway headlights
in the new grill design.

>----- W-35 -----
>
>
>Thanks everybody!
>
>David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
>    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
>               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

Keep up the excellent work!

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 00:48:07 -0300
Subject: Re: build sheet location help

My 88 Iroc has that same sticker in the console. It is not the build sheet,
just an options listing. The build sheet was used by the factory to piece
the car together. It also shows the dealer that bought it, what he paid,
what each option cost....very detailed. At least the one on my Iroc is
detailed this way....

At 07:45 PM 8/15/96 -0300, mike.blankenship@medaphis.com wrote:
>
>I have a 87 Cutlass Salon and there is a sticker under the trunk lid listing
>all kinds of codes.  It must be the build "sticker" because it lists a paint
>code which matches my color.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com)
1980 4-4-2 W-30....1 of 886 produced                                       
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25....H/OCA #0278A            
1988 Camaro IROC Z-28
- -------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: curly@sgi.net
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 00:45:14 -0300
Subject: Re: Toothbrush 

At 11:21 PM 8/15/96 -0300, you wrote:
>
>To: Bill Culp
>    Decatur, Alabama
>
>
>Is it true there is only one toothbrush in Alabama?
>and that one belongs to someone from Georgia.
>
>
>Mike Blankenship
>Kenesaw, Georgia
>
>


this is not a gossip group...go elsewhere with your BS

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 00:55:42 -0300
Subject: Re: build sheet location help

At 11:11 PM 8/15/96 -0300, PHartlieb@aol.com wrote:

>Found one of these in the rear seat cushion springs of our '77 C/S.

Checked there...no luck. My 75 H/O had it on the left rear floor pan...bad
news as 21  years of t-top leaks ruined it and the floor pan:(
>
>Had an '81 Toronado where it was up above the headliner.  Dealer took out the
>headliner to install a new sunroof gasket and it was taped to the back of the
>headliner.  

Boy I hope not! These cutlass's are known for hanging, sagging headliners
and mine is in perfect shape. It will stay there if that is the case. Not a
day goes by where I don't see a 78-87 Cutlass with a stapled up headliner.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com)
1980 4-4-2 W-30....1 of 886 produced                                       
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25....H/OCA #0278A            
1988 Camaro IROC Z-28
- -------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 01:04:32 -0300
Subject: more G-body tach help needed..... 

Well I took the instrument cluster out of my 80 442 and cleaned all the
contacts. Now all the guages work beautiful with the exception of the tach.
When I start the car it hovers at 5,000 and when you give it gas it buries
past 6,000. Now when I put it in gear or change gears it jumps down to 4,000
or so then right back up to 5,000. While the cluster was out I took off the
jumper, cleaned all contacts and put the jumper clip back on very snug with
a sheet metal screw. I made sure it was on the 8cyl jumper. Now what do I
do? The tach could be bad? I know there is a wire on the firewall with a
solid oval tube like object(resistor?) that comes from the tach and
eventually leads into the tach plug is the distrib. I am off to my second
car show in only 4 days of owning the car tomorrow night. On Tuesday about
everyone asked me...."hey why is your tach buried at 6,000 on your
dash?".....uhhhh I don't know:) I will get the same questions tomorrow:(
Thanks all......
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com)
1980 4-4-2 W-30....1 of 886 produced                                       
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25....H/OCA #0278A            
1988 Camaro IROC Z-28
- -------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: spud@kudonet.com (Spud)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 01:12:10 -0300
Subject: Re: build sheet location help 

>>My '77 Delta's was hanging on the driver's door pull behind the door panel. 
>>I think you should check the door panels last since the panel is held to 
>>the door with those stupid ribbed plastic push ins.  A pain to remove 
>>without breaking, and a pain to replace in the panel.
>
>What you need is the handy dandy Special Tool for these. Actually you
>can get 'em just about anywhere; mine looks like an oversized screwdriver
>with a flat, forked or notched end on it. I use it a _lot_ and it avoids
>breaking the fasteners and tearing the back of the door panels. Buy one.
>
>Andrew C. Green

I saw a door panel tool in Eastwood's catalog that is a part of a set of
three for trim, window cranks, window trim, windshield molding clips and
door panels.  $11 for the set, P/N 5619. 800-345-1178 or
http://www.eastwoodco.com.



Spud     "Fart proudly."
'86 FXST   --Benjamin Franklin
'73 Delta 88
'79 LeBaron

------------------------------

From: spud@kudonet.com (Spud)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 01:12:03 -0300
Subject: Re: Compression Check 

>Spud wrote:
>> 
>> if you have an ACCEL HEI SuperCoil: the instructions for the one I 
>> installed in my Delta 88 warned not to have  the ignition "ON" for more 
>> than 10 seconds, without trying to start the car.  This to reduce the 
>> chance of burning out the primary of the coil 
>
>???  Have to wonder about the design of this guy.  The primary of the 
>coil is supposed to carry the low voltage ignition PULSE stepped up to 
>the high voltage pulse that is applied to the plugs through the rotor and 
>cap.  If this coil fries after 10 seconds...

So do I, but...

>Hell, if you 
>left your car idling and it stalled, do you have to run like a maniac 
>back to the car within 10 seconds before the coil smokes?

It causes lung cancer, you know.  Breathing the second hand coil smoke is
supposed to be just as harmful.  Keep the kiddies away!

>Why not remove the battery, coil, distributor, and ignition wires then 
>put them in a safe deposit box?   ;)

There's no need, with the All New Year One(tm) Battery, Coil, Distributor,
and Ignition Wire Keeper!  Just bolt this 4 gage steel baby down to the
garage floor and your worries about possible coil burnout are over.  Only
$1,000.43, + $126.21 S&H.  Optional installation kit includes air
compressor, jack hammer, 1/2 in. dia. hold down bolts, and 470 page
instruction manual, add $873.97.

>The 66 Toro and Mike
>-- 
>Michael R. Frederick


Spud     "Fart proudly."
'86 FXST   --Benjamin Franklin
'73 Delta 88
'79 LeBaron

------------------------------

From: spud@kudonet.com (Spud)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 01:12:07 -0300
Subject: Re: Hood Insulation Pad 

>Art, 
>	I think the glue may have been used more as an assembly aid rather 
than to
permantly hood the 
>insulation on. Because I too seem to find some glue protions on my hood
when I removed the insulation, 
>but if you notice the glue is usually putwhere no clip goes. If the
insulation sags down then it's 
>possible that it won't retain it's shape, then if you wantto continuing
using the same piece of 
>insulation then by allmeans use glue, however you may want to reconsider
this at sometime down the 
>road.
>-- 
>Regards
>Fernando Proietto

I wonder if this is backwards.  A clip could be a tool to keep the pad from
slipping around before the glue sets up.  Could go either way, I guess.


Spud     "Fart proudly."
'86 FXST   --Benjamin Franklin
'73 Delta 88
'79 LeBaron

------------------------------

From: spud@kudonet.com (Spud)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 01:12:12 -0300
Subject: Re: Misc stuff Digest #267 

>Let's think about this.  How fast does the fan push air?  30mph?  50mph? 
>No matter how fast, at some point the air-speed from the car's forward 
>motion has to exceed the air-speed of the fan.  And at that point, the 
>fan would no longer be aiding the flow of air but restricting it.  If the 
>only way to keep the motor cool is by constantly running the fan than 
>this indicates that airflow through the grill to the radiator is poor.

>Michael R. Frederick

Good thinking, Mike.


Spud     "Fart proudly."
'86 FXST   --Benjamin Franklin
'73 Delta 88
'79 LeBaron

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 20:42:32 -0300
Subject: Re: Toothbrush

mike.blankenship@medaphis.com wrote:
> 
> To: Bill Culp
>     Decatur, Alabama
> 
> Is it true there is only one toothbrush in Alabama?
> and that one belongs to someone from Georgia.
> 
> Mike Blankenship
> Kenesaw, Georgia

Mike:

We just knew that that Georgia fellow could make better use of it 
than anyone native.  With our mouths full of chawin' toobakky, there 
just was never any time for those things.  I'm glad to know that one is 
available in case it is ever needed though. 

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 20:50:11 -0300
Subject: Re: Toothbrush

PHartlieb@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 96-08-15 22:32:49 EDT, you write:
> 
> << Is it true there is only one toothbrush in Alabama?
>  and that one belongs to someone from Georgia. >>
> 
> Sorry, can't resist this one:
> 
> Did you know that the toothbrush was invented in Alabama?
> If it were invented anywhere else, it would have been called a teethbrush.
> 
> Or this one:
> 
> What's 50 feet and has three teeth?
> The funnel cake line at the Alabama State Fair.
> 
> Sorry, no offense intended - hope you're good at taking a joke!
> 
> Paul

Paul:

I hope that the net is secure as these are State (AL) secrets & there is 
a heavy penalty for divulging them.  A person could get life in AL for 
that (I don't mean prison time - life in AL).

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: REGGIE GOBLE <REGGIE_GOBLE_4@wow.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 04:58:45 -0300
Subject: Reply to: 1987 olds tornado trofeo

the trofeo was the sporty/upscale edition ot the toro. yours probably has nice 
leather interior, fog lamps. dual exhaust and many extras. very nice toto. i 
believe this was the first year of the smaller toro aloong with the riveria. 
hey toro heads give him more info and correct any of my incorrect info. glad 
to have you as a toro owner. let us know your satisfaction yout toro as time 
goes by. 
reggie goble
stafford, va

------------------------------

From: REGGIE GOBLE <REGGIE_GOBLE_4@wow.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 04:58:52 -0300
Subject: Reply to: Re: Your oppinions, please.

the 69 is a good car. the 350 in it will go froever if taken care of. which 
cutlass is yours. nice body and interior and they ride good. the one i had 
many moons ago
went well into 200,00 miles with no problem. if the body is in good shape and 
all else is ok and you really like the car, buy it. the 350 engine is an easy 
to find or rebuild or replace and the trans that goes with them can't be beat. 
remember olds along with other gm cars of that year had a 5 year warranty so 
they must have had great faith in them. good luck
reggie goble
stafford va

------------------------------

From: JJF97@uno.cc.geneseo.edu
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 09:15:25 -0300
Subject: Re: FAQ Info Request - 1897 - 194?

well in 1939-1948 a 238 cu. in L head cast iron block was used
with an addition of the hydramatic transmission in late 1939.

what else would you like for this??

- --joe ferrero

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 08:50:48 -0300
Subject: Re: OCA Nat's

Paul,
The white car I bought was in the swap meet area, and I think it was on the 
same 
level as the 67. The vendor had a large white enclosed trailor, across from Al 
Sandy selling literature. I think it was also across from the young couple in 
a 
small travel trailor, selling t shirts with individual pictures of the buyer's 
car on the front.
Again, I didn't go to Nats to buy a car, but I've looked hard for several 
years 
for one and this is an extremely nice white, low milage 72. The interior looks 
just as good as the exterior. Besides, the car was made in Arlington, Tesas, 
just about five miles away from my home, and we just brought her home to 
Arlington.

Art Fuller 

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 08:58:08 -0300
Subject: Re: Toothbrush

There are some of us, myself included, that think the toothbrush E mails are 
entertaining. Besides, I see a lot of chatting going on and nobody had 
criticized them. I would rather read some amusement than read a week of car 
alarm messages. However, I guess the subscribers have a right to chat about 
car 
alarms if they please.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: Joanne Beausoleil <jbeausol@ftp.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 09:15:45 -0300
Subject: RE: Toothbrush

Oh don't worry if some people seem to have their underwear in a bunch.
Maybe things aren't going well at home. Life without humor isn't really
worth living, is it.
- ----------
From: 	mefco@sprynet.com[SMTP:mefco@sprynet.com]
Sent: 	Friday, August 16, 1996 7:58 AM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Re: Toothbrush

There are some of us, myself included, that think the toothbrush E mails are 
entertaining. Besides, I see a lot of chatting going on and nobody had 
criticized them. I would rather read some amusement than read a week of car 
alarm messages. However, I guess the subscribers have a right to chat about 
car 
alarms if they please.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 12:27:08 -0300
Subject: And We're Off  Was: Toothbrush

Art Fuller wrote:
> 
> There are some of us, myself included, that think the toothbrush E 
> mails are entertaining. 

And me.

> I would rather read some amusement than read a week of car alarm 
> messages.

Every couple of week we seem to go through a cycle of some minor 
"Non-Olds" posts followed by the "Protest" posts.  Geez, folks, is the 
occasional humor post such a big deal that it warrants a week of barbs 
back and forth?  I'd rather the alarms.

I think it would be helpful to think of the list more as a conversation 
than anything else.  Yes, we're talking about Olsmobiles but if this has 
got to be so dry that anything off the topic...  Well...

This is nothing to get your knickers in a twist.  
Give a little, take a little.

And BTW, it's not true that there is only one toothbrush in Alabama.  
There's lots of toothbrushes there ... only one tooth.   ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 10:00:25 -0300
Subject: RE: Toothbrush

I've made it 56 years with humor. I've always thought that if you don't have 
humor, or if you take yourself too seriously, you're in trouble. Maybe a 
humorless person doesn't know it, but I think they have a problem.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 10:02:40 -0300
Subject: Re: And We're Off  Was: Toothbrush

I guess my reply is this is why God gave us a delete button. If I don't want 
to 
read it, I simply push delete.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 13:33:43 -0300
Subject: Re: And We're Off  Was: Toothbrush

Art Fuller wrote:
> 
> I guess my reply is this is why God gave us a delete button. 
> If I don't want to read it, I simply push delete.

Now THERE'S a concept for ya!

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 13:38:49 -0300
Subject: Re: 9/96 issue of Hot Rod mag

Lloyd Culp wrote:
> 
> P.S.  When do you think they will do my town?

I think they're getting Sherman's great-grandson to do it.   :o

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "AUVAX7::RILES" <RILES%AUVAX7.decnet@auscam.amd.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 10:41:00 -0300
Subject: Re: build sheet location help

I understand that the "build sheet" is just a sheet listing the options that 
that 
particular car was to be built with and when the assembly line workers got 
through 
with it, they tucked or taped it in the nearest crack or crevice that was near 
where 
they happened to be standing.  Does a car necessarily have to have a build 
sheet.  I 
mean, were they required to include it with the car or could they have simply 
thrown 
it out?  Anyone got the dirty on this?

- -Robert

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 19:47:18 -0300
Subject: PUSH ROD INFO

O.K. guys I need a Chris Witt kind of answer for this. I'm going to make an 
adjustable push rod tool from 
an old push rod. Easy enough right, only I need certain measurements from the 
push rod, even easier. So 
what's the problem: the push rod is at home and the tools I need (tap/die set) 
are at a friends house 
nearby work. He's moving and today and it is my last day to get the tools I 
need but without knowing what 
size the rods are I can't get the right tools. So here's what I need:

What size is the push rods, lenght, out diameter, inner diameter for a stock 
'72 350R push rod? Where 
or how far up would the best place be on the push rod, to cut the rod, so that 
it makes it convient to 
set the height of the tool while the rod is in the guide in the engine.

I need this info fast.

Thaks guys/gals
- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: bryce_smith@442.com (Bryceman)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 11:03:26 -0300
Subject: Olds Page Classifieds 

I have had several complaints about the red text I was using for the
classified ads. I have changed it to green. I think it is easier on the
eyes, what do you guys think. Any suggestions welcome.

          Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Oldsmobiles
'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender  '65 442   '70 Cutlass Convertible
           Email: bryceman@442.com  URL: www.442.com

------------------------------

From: Doug Ahern <doug@cobra.cosmic.uga.edu>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 11:14:19 -0300
Subject: RE: Gear recommendations for street driving

> What I'd really like to hear are personal testimonies from people with gears
> in the 3.23-3.73 range.

I've got three cars that fall in this range (2 are non-Olds, but I think
they make the point just the same).  My 64 Olds (330/4V) is a 3.36:1 with
215/70/14's, My 69 Dart

64 Olds (330/4V) is a 3.36:1 and 215R70/14's:  the 3.36 is a good mix
of matching the 330's mid range torque and high rpm hp's with a drivable
car on the freeway.  It turns 3k at 60mph. Good passing, 40-70
mph (kick down 2nd gear) acceleration is a lot of fun.

69 Dart (built 318/4V) is a 3.55:1 with 225R70/14's:  the engine is built
for high rpm hp's,  it has nothing below 3000.  the torque comes in 
at 3k, and the the hp's come in at 4k.  It turns 3.2k rpm at 60mph.  

74 Plymouth Satelitte (440/4V) is a 3.23:1 with 255R60/15's:  tons of
low end torque match the 3.23:1 at 35mph to 90mph (with 2 gear changes)
quite nicely.  The 3.23 allows a kick down to second at 50mph.  This
thing is a monster between 45mph and 70mph. (ex-cop car).  

It depends what you want.  The Dart's 3.55 and high rpm hp's aren't 
too practical for around town (35mph-45mph speed limits) because to
enjoy it, I have to wind it out too much, I'm usually going too fast
when I'm really enjoying it.  A 3.73:1 or a 3.90:1 would be better
suited for this car for power, but it will kill all highway drivability.

If you have a lot of power at lower rpm's, you may be happy with a 3.23
to 3.55 gear and still maintain highway drivability, if you are all 
high rpm, you need a 3.73:1 - 3.90:1 in order to get the rpms up high
fast.   with a 3.90:1 and 245R60/15's you are turning 3500rpm at 60mph.

Doug Ahern      doug@cosmic.uga.edu  1964 F-85 Cutlass 
http://www.cosmic.uga.edu/doug.html  1969 Dart 
Sys Admin, COSMIC, Univ. of Georgia  1974 Satellite ex-cop car

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 10:09:40 -0300
Subject: Re: Reply to: Re: Your oppinions, please. 

>the '69 is a good car. [...] remember Olds along with other GM cars of 
>that year had a 5 year warranty so they must have had great faith in them.

...or nobody'd thought of shortening the warranty, then trying to sell the
hapless buyer a stupid "extended" warranty at whatever extra they could get
for it...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 12:29:56 -0300
Subject: FAQ Request: responses, '70 Toronado 

Got in a while ago and noticed the replys.  Great!  Haven't read them yet, 
but keep 'em coming!


On the Toro side of things, for sale,
1970 Toronado
lots of new parts, just needs paint
815 786 3370

Located in Sandwich IL, about 15 miles south of Aurora IL (50 miles west of 
Chicago on I-88).  I called, talked to the owner's son: motor run great, no 
rust on body, none at all, but the gas tank needs to be replaced.  
Suspicious.  It is blue.  I asked the owner to call back with price and 
mileage. He called, but forgot to leave the price and mileage.  It might be 
pricey since the paper I found it in is a summary from the classifieds that 
ran over a week ago.

There is also a '70 Riviera not too far away at an indep. dealer lot for 
approx. $3850.  Anyone interested, let me know.

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

------------------------------

From: Doug Ahern <doug@cobra.cosmic.uga.edu>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 11:27:52 -0300
Subject: 64 Olds axle fixed

My 64 f-85 is back on the road after a 6 week hiatus on jack stands.
as you may recall the right rear axle bearing siezed and ran down the bear
journal on the axle, thus ruining the axle.  After finding 2 other axles
out of the only other 64/65 Olds that I've been able to find in N. GA
(at least that has a rearend), and seeing that they both had the same 
problem,  I took one of my bad axles to a machine shop and paid $90 for 
a journal repair and bearing install.  fixed, no problem. (high price,
I know, but when there is only one machine shop in town that will do it,
and he knows it...).

BEWARE.  I pulled a 66 tempest axle and it had the same problem.  watch
those rear bearings.  This was a premature failure, this bearing had
no more that 40k miles on it when it siezed  (it was a high quality
bearing, too).

to 64/65 Olds owners:  64/65 olds axles are interchangable with 64/65
Buick A-bodies (and thats it!).


Doug Ahern      doug@cosmic.uga.edu  1964 F-85 Cutlass 
http://www.cosmic.uga.edu/doug.html  1969 Dart 
Sys Admin, COSMIC, Univ. of Georgia  1974 Satellite ex-cop car

------------------------------

From: "AUVAX7::RILES" <RILES%AUVAX7.decnet@auscam.amd.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 11:34:00 -0300
Subject: RE: Olds Page Classifieds

Green with better contrasted background.

------------------------------

From: "AUVAX7::RILES" <RILES%AUVAX7.decnet@auscam.amd.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 11:34:00 -0300
Subject: RE: Olds Page Classifieds

GREEN

------------------------------

From: "David Morton" <dmorton@rci.rutgers.edu>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 11:39:22 -0300
Subject: Re: Toothbrush

O.k., boys, let's settle down.  There's no reason to start one of these 
Alabama-Georgia insult-fests.  As someone who has lived in both states,
I know how nasty these things can get.  Besides, we all know that nobody 
uses toothbrushes in the south-- you can't brush what's not there.

Dave
(ex-southerner)


And by the way, Eggcrates _do_ rule.

------------------------------

From: Doug Ahern <doug@cobra.cosmic.uga.edu>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 11:43:03 -0300
Subject: Re: Toothbrush

yeah it was a funny joke, but its simply not appropriate at all.  It
has nothing to do with whether or not someone has a sense of humor.
And saying just delete it ain't enough.  Lets keep the posts
olds related.  There is plenty of entertainment in that, many times
its humorous.

can we keep it olds related?  is that too hard?  if you want to tell jokes,
find a jokes list, or read rec.humor.  I get over 300 messages a day,
weeding out the junk is hard enough, I don't like having to weed junk 
out of an otherwise useful list.  I've been on other lists and I've
seen this stuff slowly pickup, and people start dropping off (and
usually its people who really added to the list).

BTW: whoever it is over in 'bama, I need my toothbrush back..


Doug Ahern      doug@cosmic.uga.edu  1964 F-85 Cutlass 
http://www.cosmic.uga.edu/doug.html  1969 Dart 
Sys Admin, COSMIC, Univ. of Georgia  1974 Satellite ex-cop car

------------------------------

From: "Garnet Randolph" <garnet.randolph@ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 11:51:44 -0300
Subject: Missing Digests

Help,
Due to techical failure, I have missed digests #264, 265 and 266.  Would any
of you be so kind as to forward them to my e-mail address?  Thanks in advance,
- -Garnet

- ---------------------
Garnet Randolph
Elk Island Public Schools
2001 Sherwood Drive
Sherwood Park, Alberta
CANADA T8A 3W7
Voice (403) 464-8079
FAX (403) 449-1317
garnet.randolph@ei.educ.ab.ca

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 11:58:51 -0300
Subject: Re: build sheet location help

In my '75 Delta 88, it was located up under the passenger side front seat 
among the springs.


Dan Gulino

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 12:06:54 -0300
Subject: Northern Ohio Chapter Show

Jason,

I note that you're from Akron.
Are you planning to attend the Northern Ohio Chapter OCA car show on the 
25th?  For that matter, is anyone else planning to attend.  It's on 
August 25th at the Carnation Mall, Route 62, Alliance, Ohio?  I believe 
the mall is a little to the west of Alliance on 62.  I've never been to 
this show before, but I'm planning to drive up from Athens (Ohio) this year.
If anyone wants more particulars, let me know.


And while we're on the subject, the Mid-Ohio Chapter OCA all-Oldsmobile 
Car Show and Swap Meet will be held on Sunday, September 15, 1996 at Tom 
Gill Oldsmobile, just off of I-270 at Sawmill Road, Columbus, Ohio.  
Registration begins at 8:30 a.m. and runs to 11:30.  Awards at 4:00 p.m.  
If anyone wants more particulars about this show, let me know.  Two years 
ago we had 131 cars, and last year, even with rainy weather, we had over 
90.  We're looking forward to another good show this year.




Dan Gulino
Secretary and Newsletter Editor, Mid-Ohio Chapter

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #268
********************************
 
