
oldsmobile-digest           Monday, 1 July 1996        Volume 01 : Number 218


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Doug Lucy <dlucy@aclsco1.aclltd.com>
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 12:31:20 -0300
Subject: Mondello Olds Nationals on July 14th

>Y'all need to take a trip to Mondello Olds Nationals on July 14th to see the
>raw power of olds power cars only.

Sorry to break in when it's probably already been posted,
but where is this event?

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 18:12:24 -0300
Subject: 73-75 fender question

Does anybody have proof or experience in getting a 73 Cutlass Supreme fender
to fit a 75 Cutlass Supreme? My Mitchell Interchange Manual says that a 73
fender will not fit my 75. I called Dick Miller Racing and he said that they
will fit. I looked at them and I don't see why they will not fit. The yard
won't let me take it and try it for fit or else I would do that.

                                                                     _____
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com)  ________________     ___/    /____
1988 Camaro IROC-Z/28 5.0 bowtie power     |___________/____|  /             /
 1975 Hurst/Olds W-25 5.7 rocket power      |___________\____| /____
____/ H/OCA member #0278A...in need of 75 H/O and 442 parts!            /____/

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 18:12:20 -0300
Subject: cleaning a carb

Well yesterday I finally got the engine on the 75 H/O painted. I painted it
a gold enamel color. I got the paint from Olds USA Parts Supply in Virginia.
Tower made the paints and they were a very good quality. Also I have the
whole front end off the car, much easier to paint an engine that way:) I
painted the frame, firewall, etc black a few weeks ago so now I have one
more thing left...the carb. How do I get this cleaned, looking good? I would
like to do it myself with little cost. A local shop wants $479 to powder
coat it and $569 to chrome it. I am looking at under the $50 range. I don't
want to disassemble it as I know nothing about building 4bbl quadrajets. Any
suggestions? Should I take it off the car to avoid damaging the new paint on
the manifold?

                                                                     _____
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com)  ________________     ___/    /____
1988 Camaro IROC-Z/28 5.0 bowtie power     |___________/____|  /             /
 1975 Hurst/Olds W-25 5.7 rocket power      |___________\____| /____
____/ H/OCA member #0278A...in need of 75 H/O and 442 parts!            /____/

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 18:12:27 -0300
Subject: headers for 75 Cutlass

Has anyone here put headers on a 75 Cutlass Supreme, H/O? What kind is the
best and most affordable? I want to put some headers on my Hurst before I
put the fenders back on. I plan to run a 2.5 Flowmaster dual exhaust system
with an equalizer tube. I will probably go with a Flowmaster 2 chamber
muffler for the extra rumble. I have a 3 chamber on my Z/28 and would like
it a *little* louder. I have heard the 2 chamber on a chevelle and it
sounded mean.

                                                                     _____
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com)  ________________     ___/    /____
1988 Camaro IROC-Z/28 5.0 bowtie power     |___________/____|  /             /
 1975 Hurst/Olds W-25 5.7 rocket power      |___________\____| /____
____/ H/OCA member #0278A...in need of 75 H/O and 442 parts!            /____/

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 18:29:26 -0300
Subject: Re: Mondello Olds Nationals on July 14th

Norwalk Raceway Park in Norwalk, Ohio. aabout halfway in-between Toledo and
Cleveland, south of Sandusky.

At 12:31 PM 6/30/96 -0300, Doug Lucy wrote:
>>Y'all need to take a trip to Mondello Olds Nationals on July 14th to see the
 >>raw power of olds power cars only. > >Sorry to break in when it's probably
already been posted, >but where is this event?

                                                                     _____
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com)  ________________     ___/    /____
1988 Camaro IROC-Z/28 5.0 bowtie power     |___________/____|  /             /
 1975 Hurst/Olds W-25 5.7 rocket power      |___________\____| /____
____/ H/OCA member #0278A...in need of 75 H/O and 442 parts!            /____/

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 19:08:50 -0300
Subject: Re: cleaning a carb

Jason,
This is a tedious job only made harder by trying to paint it on the engine.
Remove the carb, clean it as best you can, and try Eastwood's carb paint.

------------------------------

From: Dana and Mary Taylor <dmtaylor@top.monad.net>
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 22:35:24 -0300
Subject: More on the Olds

I have a couple of more questions re the 350 Olds. The first, Is there a
signifigent difference in the early 39558 - 2 block and the 79
557752 - 3B block. In reading through my Motors manual for 70-77 it tells
me the motor id numbers are on the oil fill tube BUT it doesn't tell me
what they mean. The -2 block has 3222793 on the tube while the 3B block
has 7826550 on the tube.

Also a followup if anyone cares, After pulling the edelbrock manifold off
the -2 and dumping out a half cup of decon from the #5 intake port and
pulling down the engine I found the inside to be in pretty good shape.
except - as i said earlier the cam looked real good wear wise but today
upon closer inspection I found the Distributor gear teeth to be worn
sharp edged. I checked the dist and found the same thing on that. What
would cause that? misalignment would have been my guess but how can the
dist get out of alignment? As I pulled down the rest of the engine today
I answered the question as to maybe why the engine smoked so bad on the
left bank and maybe why it clattered so. Whomever rebuilt this engine put
1 3 5 7 pistons in with the notch and letter F pointing to the back of
the block. The 2 4 6 8 right side were in the right way. Go figure!
My motors manual also tells my that the 68 - 69 350's had 275 horse 2brl
and 300 hp 4 brl this was done with 9.5 to 1 compression ratio. Can I
achieve this with out getting a 68 or 69 engine??

------------------------------

From: Cory Roadarmel <roady@prolog.net>
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 19:53:42 -0300
Subject: Edelbrock Intake Question

I have a Edelbrock Performer RPM intake on my Olds 350, part # 7111. Can
anyone tell me what the purpose of the waffle style aluminum is at the bottom
of the plenum? My guess is that it is to puddle the fuel somehow. The reason
I ask this question is that while racing one day a gentleman told me that if
I fill this in or grind it down smooth, it's a 12 HP increase. Now I know
Elelbrock put this here for a reason but for a all out racing situation maybe
he's right. If any one could shed some light on this I'd be grateful..

Thanks
Cory Roadarmel
1985 Olds 442 w/350 Rocket
13.88 @ 99.00

------------------------------

From: Anectine@aol.com
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 23:04:29 -0300
Subject: subscription

I would like to resubscribe
                        thanks

------------------------------

From: Ken <rottin@en.com>
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 22:15:03 -0300
Subject: Parts needed, ect..

Can anyone give me the phone number to Year One so I can order a catalog?
Also are there any places that sell 67 convert. 442 quarter pannels?  I have a
 Fusick Catalog and they have quarters for 1968 on up, but no 1967.

In need,
Ken

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 00:22:27 -0300
Subject: Re: Parts needed, ect..

Year One's tel. number is 1-800-950-9503.  Fusick's can generally provide
anything available.  I've purchased numerous items that weren't in their
catalogue.  That year One catalogue is sure nice, but who do you think is
paying for it?

------------------------------

From: Shawn Twomey <stwom@ctp.com>
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 01:34:02 -0300
Subject: 350 for the '84 CutSup

> You guys gut no slack do ya???

Well, I for one, am just a harmless smartass, so take nothing personally
and don't listen to a damn thing I say.

>After reading my posting
>after I sent it I will have to watch my typo's closer.

Nonsense, then I'd have nothing to pick on.  Actually, I don't think
anyone cares, as long as we can tell what you're saying.

>Any sugestions on how to produce 250 - 300 horse from this motor??

...and still have it driveable, you mean.  Shouldn't be a problem, with
the right parts.  Your biggest problem, I believe, will be the heads &
getting to the right compression ratio.  If you use the 5As from the 307
on the 350 block (have it knocked .030 over for straightness, if
possible), you should be able to find pistons that will get you between
9.0 and 9.5 compression ratio (of course this means 91 octane).  The
Mondello Tech manual will help with this.  I'll post the formula later.
But will those heads flow enough?  I'm not sure, but they flow better
than the 7As, so maybe.  Then you'll need the proper cam, like I said I
recommend the Edelbrock #3712 or similar.  Use the #3711 intake you
have, and a good-running QJet, you'll be at 250hp no problem.  Then, any
more money you want to spend can take you farther.  Since your goals our
so similar to my current (and first) project, let me help by showing you
what I'm doing.  Problem is, I'm throwing > $1500, possibly upwards of
$2000 at this engine, which I gather is not what you're after.

My goal is to make a small-block that's very torquey & driveable make
~300hp in a '85 442 with the stock carb and air cleaner (stock "look")
and using the computer, with emmissions controls like EGR and catalytic
converters.  Here's what I have and will have shortly (any comments from
the more experienced engine builders greatly appreciated):

'72 350 block (+.030 makes a 355cid)
'72 "7a" heads with 70cc combustion chambers and hard exhaust seats
Edelbrock #3711 intake
Edelbrock #3712 cam
Edelbrock #5812 valve springs
Edelbrock #7813 roller timing set
TRW forged 10.25:1 advertised pistons
                -with 350 +.030 and 70cc heads makes 9.6 actual CR.
Hooker headers (don't recall part number presently)
Mondello pushrods & adjustable rockers (ditto).
Machine work:
	bores knocked .030 over
	heads ported, polished, & valve job
	pistons & rods balanced, crank spin-balanced
plus other stuff I'm doing myself, like rebuilding & tuning the carb,
etc.

>Without unreasonable cost?

Umm, doesn't all that sound reasonable to you?

> I would like my 84 Cutlass Supreme Broughm,
>when crusing at 45 - 50 mph to bark the tires when kicked into passing
>gear.! Is that too much to ask???

Certainly not!  I'm afraid I don't have the experience necessary to tell
you exactly what it'll take to achieve that goal, but the 350s a good
start.  In any case, watch out for the tranny.  That car probably has
the THM-200, esp. if it originally had a V6.  If that's the case, you'll
need to do something about it, because a 250hp Olds 350 will crush that
thing.  You'll want a THM-350, or better yet a 200-4R ($$) (see previous
discussions).  Also, what rear end does it have?  Probably a 3.07 or
thereabouts.  Not great for performance, but the 350 will still move it
around pretty good.

Sorry about the LFP, guys.

LFP = Long, uh...., post


______________________________________________
Shawn M. Twomey  |  "No!  Try not!  Do, or do
stwom@ctp.com    |   not.  There is no try."
                 |   -Yoda
______________________________________________


------------------------------

From: Shawn Twomey <stwom@ctp.com>
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 01:42:44 -0300
Subject: MS Exchange (no Olds content)

>> BTW:  this is my first post from new mail client software (MS Exchange).
>>  Could someone please let me know if my signature is screwed up or
>> anything?

>It looks just as shabby as always.  Is there supposed to be somethig
>wrong?

*laugh*  Very nice.  Ah well, you give some, you take some.  Anyway,
everything in MSExchange, by default, appears in a proportioned font,
which has the disturbing effect of causing the vertical bars in my
signature to be Un-Lined-Up, and whenever somebody underlines something
with "^^^" carats, I have to pick out from the context what they're
underlining, because it sure as hell doesn't match up to any word in the
line above it.  I'll figure out how to fix it some day....

>Seriously, the Yoda quote is not spread across the page & is truncated
>into 3 short lines.

Another "feature."  The display for the "auto signature" option is only
that wide (with the non-proportioned font I chose), so lining up
anything wider is a trial-and-error process.  Doh!  Ah well, try again
Microsoft.  I'm patient.

______________________________________________
Shawn M. Twomey  |  "No!  Try not!  Do, or do
stwom@ctp.com    |   not.  There is no try."
                 |   -Yoda
______________________________________________


------------------------------

From: DrkSole@aol.com
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 02:48:33 -0300
Subject: Re: headers for 75 Cutlass

In a message dated 96-06-30 17:10:55 EDT, you write:

>Subj:	headers for 75 Cutlass
>Date:	96-06-30 17:10:55 EDT
>From:	z28cfi@gwis.com (Jason P. Labay)
>Sender:	oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>Reply-to:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>To:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>
>Has anyone here put headers on a 75 Cutlass Supreme, H/O? What kind is the
>best and most affordable? I want to put some headers on my Hurst before I
>put the fenders back on. I plan to run a 2.5 Flowmaster dual exhaust system
>with an equalizer tube. I will probably go with a Flowmaster 2 chamber
>muffler for the extra rumble. I have a 3 chamber on my Z/28 and would like
>it a *little* louder. I have heard the 2 chamber on a chevelle and it
>sounded mean.
>
>                                                                     _____
>Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com)  ________________     ___/
>/____
>1988 Camaro IROC-Z/28 5.0 bowtie power     |___________/____|  /
>/
>1975 Hurst/Olds W-25 5.7 rocket power      |___________\____| /____
    ____/
>H/OCA member #0278A...in need of 75 H/O and 442 parts!            /____/
>
>
>
>

I put Hooker Competitions headers on my '73 Supreme, they fit like a glove,
and were only $119 from Jeg's, though the install was a pain. You'll probably
have to cut the 2 lower supports between the frame and engine crossmember to
make headers fit. I also have the 2.5" Flowmaster 64-77 A-body exhaust on my
car. You might have trouble finding a shop that will install it as '75's came
with catalytic converters, unless you install the exhaust yourself.
DrkSole
'73 Supreme

------------------------------

From: Jeff Stanish <stanishj@svpal.org>
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 02:56:08 -0300
Subject: RE: `69 442 w/455 Engine

I have always been told that the '69 H/O was the only model 'A' Body OLDS
one could get a 455. And that those cars had their 455 Installed at the
factory by special arrangement.  So I guess if one had the right
connections it might be possible.  If you're not the original owners, a
million changes could have happened since it was made.  I heard of
people doing title searches and look up the previous owners to find the
history of the car.

If you look at page 91 of the same restoration  the L32 option was NOT
available in a 442.  The L32 option applies to the OLDS division,
however, not all options were available on all models, like getting an
M31 option(Jetaway 2 Speed Trans) in a big ole 98 model.


On Sun, 23 Jun 1996, Chris Urban wrote:

> As far as I can tell the 455 was only available in the 69 Hurst Olds, (this
was the option), regualr 442's all came with 400's. Anyone else? > >
---------- > From: 	John & Robin Whitcore[SMTP:retrotek@phoenixat.com] 
> Sent:
	Saturday, June 22, 1996 5:35 PM > To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca > 
Subject:
	`69 442 w/455 Engine > > Hi! > > We're the owners of a '69 442 w/ a 
455. We
noticed that any Olds > books/manuals we could get our hands on stated that
the '69 442 was > only available with a 400 engine; except for one. Was the
455 actually > an option for the '69 442? > > The "Oldsmobile 442 &
W-Machines Restoration Guide" by Motorbooks > International lists the 455ci
Performance Engine as 1969 Optional > Equipment (p90, Option L32). Our car
also has a letter C cast on the > left and right cylinder heads as it says in
the spotters tips for the > 400ci engine.  The casting numbers on the engine
denote a 455 between > `68 and `72 (396021-F).  We are just curious as to
what we've got! > > Thanks! > > ....j&r > > > > > >

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 12:20:51 -0300
Subject: Re: Parts needed, ect..

Ken wrote:
>
> Can anyone give me the phone number to Year One so I can order a
> catalog?

Ken,

Their number is (800)950-9503 or you can order a catalog at:
http://wj.net/f-body/yo/index.html


The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 12:28:06 -0300
Subject: Re: MS Exchange (no Olds content)

Shawn Twomey wrote:
>
> Another "feature."  The display for the "auto signature" option is only
> that wide (with the non-proportioned font I chose), so lining up
> anything wider is a trial-and-error process.  Doh!  Ah well, try again
> Microsoft.  I'm patient.

The all wise Billy Gates knows what's best for us.
Just ask him, he'll tell you.   ;)


The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 10:43:41 -0300
Subject: Re[4]: Box stock 442 went 11.72

          I'd like to add my two cents worth on this one.  The current
          NHRA class records for E/Stock and F/Stock, which is where
          most 442s and W-30s would fall, are in the high 10s.  I'd
          have to say that high 11s are not only a credible time for
          this car, but deserve congratulations from all here in
          Oldsmailland.

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 10:47:47 -0300
Subject: Re: Johnny Lightning Indy 500 Cars

Johnny Lightning (die-cast toy manufacturer) is putting out a set of toy
cars called the Indianapolis 500 Champions Collections. Two cars per pack,
the winner's car and the pace car. Various years. I got the 1970 set, with
the Al Unser car, and a 1970 Olds 442 pace car. It looks great, it's yellow
with black racing stripes and it's a convertible. Very detailed!     ^^^^^^

          Unfortunately, if it were really THAT detailed, it would
          have been painted the correct WHITE!

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 10:21:14 -0300
Subject: Me -- address mess

Sorry, people, I'm typing this blind, in effect, since we have suddenly
switched ISPs and apparently thoroughly hosed all the forwarding.
Congratulations to Dal Allen for figuring out how to reach me anyway,
but FYI, everyone, I'm now at acg@dlogics.com and apparently cannot
be reached anymore, even via automatic forwarding, under our old
domain name of acg@frame.com. So it's acg@dlogics.com or nothing...
which, coincidentally, is how much Olds mail I had this morning. Sigh...

I was going to tell y'all about a very Olds-intensive issue of Car
Collector magazine that arrived in the mail on Saturday, but will hold
off until I can get communications sorted out once again.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 11:35:36 -0300
Subject: antique car insurance

I am thinking of insuring my 35,000 mile 70 442 convertible with an antique
insurance provider.  Does anybody have any experience with one of these
companys?  (Good, bad, horror stories?)  Seems J.C. Whitney has been around
longest.
Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 12:11:14 -0300
Subject: 11.7's, cam ID, etc.

> Subject: RE: Box stock 442 went 11.72

> Tips on parts selection, assembly from Mr. Urban??

> Again, where does one get these miracle head gaskets? Is that the same place
> that sells Solid Main Web 403's...?
> What YEAR Cutlass?

The silence is deafening!

> The suspension work involved drag shocks in front, removing the front sway
bar

, air bags in the coil springs

And that's it, all of it?

> From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
>
> again. About 2 years ago we built a car that set our absolute quarter =
> mile record for a Cutlass at 9.78. No this was not a stock car but a =
> purpose built ,tunnel rammed ( no nitrous) race car. Though it did have =
> a steel body and weighed 3400lbs.

Impressive... that I'd like to see...

> And, what, slicks are never radials?
> Not if you want to go fast.

Well, learn something new all the time...

- -- MSD vs. HEI dist'r--
> No its just what the rules allowed for and anything you can get extra you
have

 to take.

So, you are saying that there is a small but not negligible difference in ET's
attributable to the MSD distributor, therefore it is a superior unit to an HEI
distributor? Sorry, unless I see a consistent ET drop with one part and then
then back to same with old part, I don't think that there's really a
difference in which unit triggers and distributes the spark. Now, the MSD
*box* and method of making spark, that's another story...

> Did he get the 'muffler delete' pipes, too? :)
> I think you missed the point.

Oh, that 'stock' point... yeah, we just forgot to define it at the outset. Is
my 68 'stock' with the 6-pack in place? It *is* a stock Olds intake! Can I use
a 3" xst system, too? How about no exhaust system, just pipes dumping to the
ground? Where is the line drawn?

> Well High 11's is not way into the 11's there's a big difference. My daily
(we

ekend) driver will do 12's on street rubber.

Well, considering that in that range, chopping time off the ET is rather a
logarithmic curve in terms of $ and effort... yes, I insist that 11.78 *is*
"way into the 11's".... Not "just" into the 11's, like 11.99 or 11.90 even.

>                Answering a question posed to me by others about oils is not
> a, "sales pitch", neither is it, "advertising".

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...

> Would you mind scanning the time slips?  Anyone want to put them up on their
w

> David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157

I second the motion...

> > > Tonight I took out the cam - on the back end it has the numbers - 89553
- > > > and a F019 (ford??) stamped behind the first bearing surface is the >
> > number '1703' don't know if this is a keeper or not. > Does this cam have
anything to offer??

ID'ing a cam from an Olds is not as easy as finding some #'s on it- usually.
The manual shows a variation in the number & location of CHAMFERS on the OD of
the front of the cam, but many service manuals, like since 1967 or so, do not
even give the lift/ duration specs for the cams- they only tell what cam [by
chamfers] is for what class of engines.
  You can easily determine cam lift with dial calipers or a micrometer- any
shop can do this easily- and for duration you could put it in a block with a
degree wheel set up, and plot the opening and closing points...  But, what it
boils down to is, you are rebuiliding an engine here, replace the thing with
one w/ specs to your liking, unless your budget is really really limited. Cam
& lifters are only about $120 most places. With delivery charges. Engine
Service Group, for instance.

> The engine smoked very bad out the left bank when I drove it home. It
> also clattered something awful.

You know, that's funny, the #8-head 350 I just replaced with a 403... I pulled
it apart a little, down to one head off... looking for reasons for its
pounding noise... found NONE, no bad bearings, etc. Really clean inside. First
time I ever saw a used stock timing gear with all the plastic still on it! Bad
wrist pins? Who knows, that engine is now 1 step from the grave, in the
storage facility. Good block to build on, I guess.  -Chris-

> some wear on the skirts near the oil rings. The rod bearings in the cap
> all look good ie; no copper showing nor is there the usual dirt or metal
> frragments inbeded in the surface. The unusual part is the bearing half
> in the rod itself. the center part of the bearing half is all copper
> colored. Why would only the one half be worn and not the other. I always

Well, there ya go. knocking & oil burning due to worn rod bearings most
likely. The rod [upper] half of the bearing takes the brunt of the abuse,
during the power stroke, the compression stroke, and the exhaust stroke...
Whereas the cap half of the bearing sees significant loading mainly when
drawing the piston down sucking A/F into the cylinder, right? Hardly a big
load then.

> thought the most wear occured on the side of the downward thrust with the
> other part of the wear would be on the lower half where the rod was being
> forced up.

When the rod is being forced UP, the load is borne on the upper or rod half of
the bearing... right?

> Any sugestions on how to produce 250 - 300 horse from this motor??
> Without unreasonable cost? I would like my 84 Cutlass Supreme Broughm,

COMPRESSION. Make as much as you can afford to feed. Shoot for 9.5, end up
with 9.2 or so probably, should tolerate pump premium OK. This means using
heads other than the #8's, as their huge chambers will never get you over
about 8.5:1 CRatio even with extensive milling. Install 2.000" valves if the
budget allows. Select the cam carefully. Big dual exhaust.

> when crusing at 45 - 50 mph to bark the tires when kicked into passing
> gear.! Is that too much to ask???

Well, at that speed, yeah. Tough to get a lot of tork at that speed, esp.
to the rear tires, since you are presumably in 3rd gear already, thus not
much tork amplification thru the trans. That's really more of a TRANS
modification, actually, to make the shifts more sudden and harsh. The factory
went to a great deal of trouble to properly size the orifices [orifi?] in the
trans valve body so that shifts occur smoothly and seamlessly. Esp. in
Cadillacs...  If you can live with a harsh-shifting trans on a daily basis,
then by all means have it modified to suit.

> Which model Olds are you running?  I use Air Lift bags in the '67 and with
> slicks that bite have never had wheel hop.  Run the bags independantly and
> preload the right rear, that should work.  The only other modification might
> be to use stiffer bushings.

One of them lo-budget tips I saw years ago: to stiffen the bushings, drive in
a few nails or screws, and grind off any excess. - -- Chris  B. Witt
*the* Rocket Scientist wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: Michael Brady <drolds19@mail.idt.net>
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 14:25:23 -0300
Subject: Re: Parts needed, ect..

Ken wrote:
>
> Can anyone give me the phone number to Year One so I can order a catalog?
> Also are there any places that sell 67 convert. 442 quarter pannels?  I have
a > Fusick Catalog and they have quarters for 1968 on up, but no 1967. > > In
need, > Ken >Hello ken, year one phone # is 1-800-950-9503, also no one i know
is selling repro quarters for 1967, you'll have to find a part's car and cut
one out, maybe you could contact some bone yards in az., expect to pay thru
the nose however!! Good luck!

------------------------------

From: Michael Brady <drolds19@mail.idt.net>
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 14:34:16 -0300
Subject: Re: `69 442 w/455 Engine

Jeff Stanish wrote:
>
> I have always been told that the '69 H/O was the only model 'A' Body OLDS
> one could get a 455. And that those cars had their 455 Installed at the
> factory by special arrangement.  So I guess if one had the right
> connections it might be possible.  If you're not the original owners, a
> million changes could have happened since it was made.  I heard of
> people doing title searches and look up the previous owners to find the
> history of the car.
>
> If you look at page 91 of the same restoration  the L32 option was NOT
> available in a 442.  The L32 option applies to the OLDS division,
> however, not all options were available on all models, like getting an
> M31 option(Jetaway 2 Speed Trans) in a big ole 98 model.
>
> On Sun, 23 Jun 1996, Chris Urban wrote:
>
> > As far as I can tell the 455 was only available in the 69 Hurst Olds,
(this was the option), regualr 442's all came with 400's. Anyone else? > > > >
---------- > > From:         John & Robin
Whitcore[SMTP:retrotek@phoenixat.com] > > Sent:         Saturday, June 22,
1996 5:35 PM > > To:   oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca > > Subject:      `69 442
w/455 Engine > > > > Hi! > > > > We're the owners of a '69 442 w/ a 455. We
noticed that any Olds > > books/manuals we could get our hands on stated that
the '69 442 was > > only available with a 400 engine; except for one. Was the
455 actually > > an option for the '69 442? > > > > The "Oldsmobile 442 &
W-Machines Restoration Guide" by Motorbooks > > International lists the 455ci
Performance Engine as 1969 Optional > > Equipment (p90, Option L32). Our car
also has a letter C cast on the > > left and right cylinder heads as it says
in the spotters tips for the > > 400ci engine.  The casting numbers on the
engine denote a 455 between > > `68 and `72 (396021-F).  We are just curious
as to what we've got! > > > > Thanks! > > > > ....j&r > > > > > > > > > > >
>Hello, the first olds a-body with a 455 was the 68' hurst olds!!And yes you
have a 455 according to your casting #, they also put c- heads on many 455s
Enjoy that olds!!!

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 12:39:11 -0300
Subject: RE: More on the Olds

- ----------
Also a followup if anyone cares, After pulling the edelbrock manifold off
the -2 and dumping out a half cup of decon from the #5 intake port and
pulling down the engine I found the inside to be in pretty good shape.
except - as i said earlier the cam looked real good wear wise but today
upon closer inspection I found the Distributor gear teeth to be worn
sharp edged. I checked the dist and found the same thing on that. What
would cause that? misalignment would have been my guess but how can the
dist get out of alignment?

More than likely its your cam thats moving back and forth in the block

As I pulled down the rest of the engine today
I answered the question as to maybe why the engine smoked so bad on the
left bank and maybe why it clattered so. Whomever rebuilt this engine put
1 3 5 7 pistons in with the notch and letter F pointing to the back of
the block. The 2 4 6 8 right side were in the right way. Go figure!
My motors manual also tells my that the 68 - 69 350's had 275 horse 2brl
and 300 hp 4 brl this was done with 9.5 to 1 compression ratio. Can I
achieve this with out getting a 68 or 69 engine??

Sure you can acheive any compression ratio you want with proper part selection
and machine work

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 12:41:35 -0300
Subject: RE: Edelbrock Intake Question

This is Edelbrocks way of trying to increase the width of your powerband =
by atomizing the fuel ( in theory ) better to give more low end power. =
When your racing though this is of no use, HP can be gained by smoothing =
the intake but how much is a question mark for me, ask a knowledgeable =
source that has actually tried it.

- ----------
From: 	Cory Roadarmel[SMTP:roady@prolog.net]
Sent: 	Sunday, June 30, 1996 6:53 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Edelbrock Intake Question

I have a Edelbrock Performer RPM intake on my Olds 350, part # 7111. Can =
anyone tell me=20
what the purpose of the waffle style aluminum is at the bottom of the =
plenum? My guess=20
is that it is to puddle the fuel somehow. The reason I ask this question =
is that while=20
racing one day a gentleman told me that if I fill this in or grind it =
down smooth, it's=20
a 12 HP increase. Now I know Elelbrock put this here for a reason but =
for a all out=20
racing situation maybe he's right. If any one could shed some light on =
this I'd be=20
grateful..

Thanks
Cory Roadarmel
1985 Olds 442 w/350 Rocket
13.88 @ 99.00

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 12:46:01 -0300
Subject: RE: 350 for the '84 CutSup

Now this is a well thought out combination. What are the cams spec? What gear
is in your car?

- ----------
From: 	Shawn Twomey[SMTP:stwom@ctp.com]
Sent: 	Monday, July 01, 1996 12:34 AM
To: 	'olds list'
Subject: 	350 for the '84 CutSup

> You guys gut no slack do ya???

Well, I for one, am just a harmless smartass, so take nothing personally
and don't listen to a damn thing I say.

>After reading my posting
>after I sent it I will have to watch my typo's closer.

Nonsense, then I'd have nothing to pick on.  Actually, I don't think
anyone cares, as long as we can tell what you're saying.

>Any sugestions on how to produce 250 - 300 horse from this motor??

...and still have it driveable, you mean.  Shouldn't be a problem, with
the right parts.  Your biggest problem, I believe, will be the heads &
getting to the right compression ratio.  If you use the 5As from the 307
on the 350 block (have it knocked .030 over for straightness, if
possible), you should be able to find pistons that will get you between
9.0 and 9.5 compression ratio (of course this means 91 octane).  The
Mondello Tech manual will help with this.  I'll post the formula later.
But will those heads flow enough?  I'm not sure, but they flow better
than the 7As, so maybe.  Then you'll need the proper cam, like I said I
recommend the Edelbrock #3712 or similar.  Use the #3711 intake you
have, and a good-running QJet, you'll be at 250hp no problem.  Then, any
more money you want to spend can take you farther.  Since your goals our
so similar to my current (and first) project, let me help by showing you
what I'm doing.  Problem is, I'm throwing > $1500, possibly upwards of
$2000 at this engine, which I gather is not what you're after.

My goal is to make a small-block that's very torquey & driveable make
~300hp in a '85 442 with the stock carb and air cleaner (stock "look")
and using the computer, with emmissions controls like EGR and catalytic
converters.  Here's what I have and will have shortly (any comments from
the more experienced engine builders greatly appreciated):

'72 350 block (+.030 makes a 355cid)
'72 "7a" heads with 70cc combustion chambers and hard exhaust seats
Edelbrock #3711 intake
Edelbrock #3712 cam
Edelbrock #5812 valve springs
Edelbrock #7813 roller timing set
TRW forged 10.25:1 advertised pistons
                -with 350 +.030 and 70cc heads makes 9.6 actual CR.
Hooker headers (don't recall part number presently)
Mondello pushrods & adjustable rockers (ditto).
Machine work:
	bores knocked .030 over
	heads ported, polished, & valve job
	pistons & rods balanced, crank spin-balanced
plus other stuff I'm doing myself, like rebuilding & tuning the carb,
etc.

>Without unreasonable cost?

Umm, doesn't all that sound reasonable to you?

> I would like my 84 Cutlass Supreme Broughm,
>when crusing at 45 - 50 mph to bark the tires when kicked into passing
>gear.! Is that too much to ask???

Certainly not!  I'm afraid I don't have the experience necessary to tell
you exactly what it'll take to achieve that goal, but the 350s a good
start.  In any case, watch out for the tranny.  That car probably has
the THM-200, esp. if it originally had a V6.  If that's the case, you'll
need to do something about it, because a 250hp Olds 350 will crush that
thing.  You'll want a THM-350, or better yet a 200-4R ($$) (see previous
discussions).  Also, what rear end does it have?  Probably a 3.07 or
thereabouts.  Not great for performance, but the 350 will still move it
around pretty good.

Sorry about the LFP, guys.

LFP = Long, uh...., post


______________________________________________
Shawn M. Twomey  |  "No!  Try not!  Do, or do
stwom@ctp.com    |   not.  There is no try."
                 |   -Yoda
______________________________________________


------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 13:50:21 -0300
Subject: Quick!- Help with Valve Seals- Are they supposed to be like this?

I'm assembling the 350 heads for my 403 buildup, and have a question about
the valve seals.

The ones included with the engine rebuild kit are little plastic caps (8
black, 8 white), like the ones that were on there stock. When I go to install
them, they fit nice and tight around the valve stem, but there doesn't seem
to be anything retaining them to the head.

So, are stock-type valve seals only meant to stick to the valve stems, and go
bouncing up and down with the valves? That doesn't seem right; I would think
they should fit tightly around, and stay connected to, the guide, not the
valve.

I may just go with Mondello's teflon valve seals, but have one question about
the tool he sells to machine the guides to accept that type of seal. What is
the operating rpm of that tool? Is it something only suitable for a milling
machine? Or a drill press? It would be much easier if I could use the
heavy-duty 1/2" portable drill I have handy, but that has a low-rpm operating
range; is that feasible?

------------------------------

From: tmorris@bt1dc18e.bet.ibm.com
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 10:07:50 -0300
Subject: Olds FAQ

How can I get copy of the Olds FAQ? thanks.


Todd Morris
soon to take delivery of 71 442 4 sp.

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #218
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