To:	oldsmobile-digest @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET @ ABTLAB
Date:	08/02/96 03:46:43 AM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #254


oldsmobile-digest          Friday, 2 August 1996       Volume 01 : Number 254


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 02:53:16 -0300
Subject: Re: Fwd: Fan clutches

There are no "decent priced" suppliers of gear drives as far as I know, 
everyone seems to want about $300 or thereabouts for an Olds geardrive.  
The question, though, is WHY do you want a gear drive?  All you get is 
increased noise and therefore increased valvetrain vibration 
(harmonics?). All indications point to gear drives being "all 
show"...does anyone have information to the contrary?

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: STEE911@aol.com
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 03:02:37 -0300
Subject: Fwd: Fan clutches 

the gear drive gets you a more accurate timing under accel and deccel without
any major difference between the 2 ==also stronger than a chain
- ---------------------
Forwarded message:
From:	suntzu@ohana.com (Paul R. K. Kuromoto)
To:	STEE911@aol.com
CC:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Date: 96-08-01 02:00:39 EDT

There are no "decent priced" suppliers of gear drives as far as I know, 
everyone seems to want about $300 or thereabouts for an Olds geardrive.  
The question, though, is WHY do you want a gear drive?  All you get is 
increased noise and therefore increased valvetrain vibration 
(harmonics?). All indications point to gear drives being "all 
show"...does anyone have information to the contrary?

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 04:05:37 -0300
Subject: Re: Fwd: Fan clutches

Have you had timing problems with a good quality double roller chain?  I 
doubt it because I don't think they exist.  A roller chain is strong 
enough, heck real deal racers use BELT drives!

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: kissrulz@gnn.com (Craig Dobbins)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 04:46:35 -0300
Subject: Re: spotted: 1968 yellow 442 

Nope,
  I live right outside of Buffalo N.Y., kinda to the north.  That color is 
the original Saffron yellow, disgusting isn't it?!  Gotta go for a much 
stronger yello, and the black side stripe of course.  

                                                    See ya!
                                                       Craig
>Date:		Wed, 31 Jul 1996 17:17:51 -0300
>From:	Ken <rottin@en.com>
>Sender:	oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>To:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>Subject:	spotted: 1968 yellow 442
>
>On my way home from work today I saw a 1968 yellow 442 parked in a 
>driveway.  It was pale and washed out(bad color IMHO), but the car 
>looked mint from 20 feet away.  Anyways, this guy talking about 
>repainting his yelller 442 couldnt happen to live like 4 blocks from me 
>in the South Euclid/Cleveland Hts. area, could he?  Sheesh, would be a 
>small world.. :)
>
>Ken
>Cleveland, Oh 
>1967 442 Convertible
>

------------------------------

From: kissrulz@gnn.com (Craig Dobbins)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 04:55:56 -0300
Subject: Re: 1970 4-4-2 

Hi,
  I own a '68 442 convertable that I just purchased about 3 months ago.  Has 
several options (but no air, or rally gagues).  I paid $7000, but the '68's 
usually go for a little more, plus it's a convert., and only has 65,700 
original miles, with all #'s matching, and protect-o-plate.  Do the #'s 
match, and how many miles, if they do, and the car is mechanically sound, it 
doesn't sound like a bad deal to me at all.  However, check it out good when 
you look at it (if you can first, don't buy sight unseen).  And offer like 
$5000, at first at least.

                                                        Good Luck,
                                                          Craig
>Date:		Wed, 31 Jul 1996 21:25:44 -0300
>From:	Joe Bazzetta <bazzetta@i1.net>
>Sender:	oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>To:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>Subject:	1970 4-4-2
>
>hi,
>		I'm looking at a 4-4-2, 455cuin olds cutlass, it is in 
>good condition, fair interior, but is missing some things like some 
>chrome trim and it needs a new speedometer (much needed with a 442).  
>Anyways the private seller wants $5250, but what should i pay.  I know u 
>can't see or check out the car, but what do u think...would this car 
>have bad matenince too?
> 
>
>		Please respond with 1970 442 info and price,
>		Thanks    Joe
>

------------------------------

From: kissrulz@gnn.com (Craig Dobbins)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 05:01:03 -0300
Subject: Re: SS Wheels, brake lights, whatever 

Sorry man,
   I hope you find one, or I find another one for you.  I got mine, you'll 
get yours.  Did you check out the august issue of Hemming's magazine, saw 
some '68 442's in there for sale this month, I think they were going for 
between $8-$10 or $100,000, the pricier being more completed of course, no 
resto needed.
                                                        Good Luck,
                                                         Craig
                                                  
>Date:		Wed, 31 Jul 1996 16:21:12 -0300
>From:	Dan Williams <dr_olds@kfmw.net>
>Sender:	oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>To:	Olds Mailing List <oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
>Subject:	SS Wheels, brake lights, whatever
>
>14 x 6 SSII wheels were made in years other than 68 (specificially 69).  
>SSIIIs were not made as 14 x 6s as far as I know.  Has anybody here used 
>the Ralley Wheel paint from Eastwood for their SSIIs?  Is is the correct 
>shade of grey?  It is much cheaper than the paint they sell at places 
>like year one. 
>
>I got the brake lights working on the 68.  It was the turn signal 
>switch.  Thanks for the help guys.  Also, as a bonus I now have turn 
>signals.  Wow, turn signals and brake lights.  I'll feel a little safer 
>next time I drive the car.
>
>Hate to say this again, but I am still bummed about that 68 442 
>convertible.  Let me know if anybody finds one for sale in the midwest.
>
>> Uh, 74 degrees, 10:04 a.m. Hey, you're welcome.  :-)
> 
>Wow, the magic formula.  Now how do I get my oven to come on at exactly 
>10:04 am.  Hmm.
>

------------------------------

From: "Mike Coccagna" <mikec@oz.kis.net>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:09:58 -0300
Subject: RCPT: '77 Olds

Confirmation of reading: your message -

    Date:    31 Jul 96 17:27
    To:      oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
    Subject: '77 Olds

Was read at 8:09, 1 Aug 96.

Mike

------------------------------

From: ndg@traverse.com (Nielsen Design Group)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 09:45:07 -0300
Subject: Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 #253 

>Saffron was the color used on the Rallye 350's if I'm not mistaken.  Its a
>pretty strong, primary yellow if you've never seen a Rallye 350.

Um, sorry, not the case. Saffron is that "powdery faded-looking" yellow that
has been discussed here earlier.

I went to my paint shop and looked at the '68 Olds paint codes (also wanted
to see what my car's Teal Blue looked like in pristine unfaded form) and
they also offered Sonic Gold, paint code G. That's my guess for the 442 on
the '68 Car and Driver cover.

- -Darren Shroeger
 '68 442 Holiday Hardtop / 4 spd

Nielsen Design Group
114 East Front Street
Traverse City, Michigan 49684
t:616.946.0925
f:616.946.2363
e:ndg@traverse.com

------------------------------

From: "Gary" <fischer@adminnet.assiniboinec.mb.ca>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:20:54 -0300
Subject: RCPT: '77 Olds

Confirmation of reading: your message -

    Date:    31 Jul 96 17:27
    To:      oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
    Subject: '77 Olds

Was read at 8:20, 1 Aug 96.

Gary Fischer
Computer Services
Assiniboine Community College
Brandon Manitoba Canada

------------------------------

From: JJF97@uno.cc.geneseo.edu
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:36:54 -0300
Subject: Resto  Tips  .....

before i tell today's resto tip, I want to apologize to Andrew Green and any
other person that may have misunderstood me due to a mis-communication.

The actual tip "Bonus" was for the snap ring pliers to be ground down on the
tips to grab the actual ring portion, and not to compress the plate.

I hope this better clairifies the situation....

Now for today's Resto Tip.....









When installing decals on your car, in many cases you can install them on a
wet surface, which allows you to position them more easily, rather than
dropping them on a dry surface and having them instantly bonded in place 
- --crooked.


Resto Corner

- --joe ferrero

------------------------------

From: Todd Hall <thall@en.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:09:30 -0300
Subject: Re: spotted: 1968 yellow 442 

At 05:17 PM 7/31/96 -0300, you wrote:
>On my way home from work today I saw a 1968 yellow 442 parked in a 
>driveway.  It was pale and washed out(bad color IMHO), but the car 
>looked mint from 20 feet away.  Anyways, this guy talking about 
>repainting his yelller 442 couldnt happen to live like 4 blocks from me 
>in the South Euclid/Cleveland Hts. area, could he?  Sheesh, would be a 
>small world.. :)
>
>Ken
>Cleveland, Oh 
>1967 442 Convertible
>

Craig might not live 4 blocks from you, but I probably do. I'm right off
Anderson Rd in South Euclid. 'Course you've never seen my 442 on your way
home from work cause it's been in the garage for 12 friggin years. 


Todd Hall
Cleveland, OH
'72 442

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:13:28 -0300
Subject: Re: Resto  Tips  .....

JJF97@uno.cc.geneseo.edu wrote:
> 
> When installing decals on your car, in many cases you can install them 
> on a wet surface, which allows you to position them more easily...

Good point.  I have had great success using a spray bottle filled with 
water and a SMALL amount of liquid dish detergent.  It makes the surface 
slippery and it's much easier to slide the decals (like stripes) around 
for alignment.  If it starts to dry, just give it another squirt.  

Let the decal air dry or squeegee excess liquid off with a roller or 
(carefully) with a cloth.  Make sure you leave plenty of time to dry 
before ripping down the road!  A hair dryer will help.  If you find any 
small bubbles afterwards: poke the center with a pin, then work the 
air/water out and press down.

I've used this method on commercial vehicles, sprint cars, and even boats 
with no long-term problems with the soap effecting the adhesiveness of 
the decals.  And works just as well on window tinting.

Anybody want info on making custom lettering and decals?

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:10:10 -0300
Subject: Saffron? (Was Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 #253) 

>>Saffron was the color used on the Rallye 350's if I'm not mistaken.  Its a
>>pretty strong, primary yellow if you've never seen a Rallye 350.
>
>Um, sorry, not the case. Saffron is that "powdery faded-looking" yellow that
>has been discussed here earlier.

Okay, I am barely hanging on to this thread, so help me out: on the fully
tricked-out bad-boy 442s or W-30s or whatever of the '68-'72 vintage, some
came in (practically) monochrome yellow -- just about everything on the car
was yellow, including the bumpers. A _loud_ yellow. What was that color name?

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: kissrulz@gnn.com (Craig Dobbins)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 07:21:01 -0300
Subject: Re: SS Wheels, brake lights, whatever 

  Same guy who wrote the "Sorry Man" note here,
    Didn't mean $100,000, meant $10,000 (too many zero's, happens when your 
typing quickly).  Actually, I looked at the Hemming's again, some are more 
than $10,000, but hey, I paid $7000 for mine, and will probably spend around 
$13,000 to get it back to showroom condition by the time I'm all done (paint, 
redo front buckets, maybe new top -convertable- , and pulling engine, 
detailing engine and engine compartment, new gaskets all around, and front + 
rear seals, and probably new engine bearings and high flow oil pump, just to 
make sure everything is OK, no boring - wanna avoid it if at all possible), 
and a few extra needed pieces that are needed to make it the way I want it.  
Not to mention rechroming of bumbers, and steel wheels and caps ($1000 right 
there, bumpers don't REALLY need it, but hey, it's gonna be a show winner).  
I never heard of EASTWOOD, please respond with phone # for them so I can 
order a catalog (another catalog, like I don't already have enough).

                                                    Good Luck,
                                                       Craig
>Date:		Thu, 1 Aug 1996 05:01:03 -0300
>From:	kissrulz@gnn.com (Craig Dobbins)
>Sender:	oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>To:	dr_olds@kfmw.net, oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>Subject:	Re: SS Wheels, brake lights, whatever
>
>Sorry man,
>   I hope you find one, or I find another one for you.  I got mine, you'll 
>get yours.  Did you check out the august issue of Hemming's magazine, saw 
>some '68 442's in there for sale this month, I think they were going for 
>between $8-$10 or $100,000, the pricier being more completed of course, no 
>resto needed.
>                                                        Good Luck,
>                                                         Craig
>                                                  
>>Date:		Wed, 31 Jul 1996 16:21:12 -0300
>>From:	Dan Williams <dr_olds@kfmw.net>
>>Sender:	oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>>To:	Olds Mailing List <oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
>>Subject:	SS Wheels, brake lights, whatever
>>
>>14 x 6 SSII wheels were made in years other than 68 (specificially 69).  
>>SSIIIs were not made as 14 x 6s as far as I know.  Has anybody here used 
>>the Ralley Wheel paint from Eastwood for their SSIIs?  Is is the correct 
>>shade of grey?  It is much cheaper than the paint they sell at places 
>>like year one. 
>>
>>I got the brake lights working on the 68.  It was the turn signal 
>>switch.  Thanks for the help guys.  Also, as a bonus I now have turn 
>>signals.  Wow, turn signals and brake lights.  I'll feel a little safer 
>>next time I drive the car.
>>
>>Hate to say this again, but I am still bummed about that 68 442 
>>convertible.  Let me know if anybody finds one for sale in the midwest.
>>
>>> Uh, 74 degrees, 10:04 a.m. Hey, you're welcome.  :-)
>> 
>>Wow, the magic formula.  Now how do I get my oven to come on at exactly 
>>10:04 am.  Hmm.
>>
>
>

------------------------------

From: kissrulz@gnn.com (Craig Dobbins)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 07:28:28 -0300
Subject: Re: Saffron? (Was Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 #253) 

>Date:		Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:10:10 -0300
>From:	"Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
>Sender:	oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>To:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>Subject:	Saffron? (Was Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 #253)
>
>>>Saffron was the color used on the Rallye 350's if I'm not mistaken.  Its
> a
>>>pretty strong, primary yellow if you've never seen a Rallye 350.
>>
>>Um, sorry, not the case. Saffron is that "powdery faded-looking" yellow
> that
>>has been discussed here earlier.
>
>Okay, I am barely hanging on to this thread, so help me out: on the fully
>tricked-out bad-boy 442s or W-30s or whatever of the '68-'72 vintage, some
>came in (practically) monochrome yellow -- just about everything on the car
>was yellow, including the bumpers. A _loud_ yellow. What was that color
> name?
>
>Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
>Datalogics, Inc.
>441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
>Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

Don't know here, I'm Craig, the guy who started the "Yellow" thing.  I'd like 
to know this also (LOUD_YELLOW), because that's the color I'm looking for.

                                                       Thanks,
                                                         Craig 
>

------------------------------

From: Frank Boerger <103454.317@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:42:01 -0300
Subject: SS III's  in 14x6 width ???

I need help in solving what appears to be a mystery.

I have a set of what appear  to be SS III wheels on my  '68 coupe parts
car...the back side says 14x6...the center cap does not bolt on, just "snaps'
in.  Everything I read in Year-one etc, says that 14x6's were only available in
'68/69, but with those  the center cap bolted on.  

Were 14x6's offered in a year, say after '75 when my id chart  stops...
otherwise what do I have ??  The wheels are not grey, but are a dark metallic
blue, ala upper body color.

Several folks replied yesterday that 14x6 is a 68 or 69 wheel...now I'm not so
sure.  This evening, I will get a part number after I blast the paint off.

Thanks for your help.

Frank Boerger
'68 Cutlass Convertible/'68 parts coupe
" Now spread over at least two acres of eastern Tallahassee Florida..."

------------------------------

From: kissrulz@gnn.com (Craig Dobbins)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 07:45:00 -0300
Subject: '68 442/Cutlass Headlight housing 

Everyone,
  	I need a Driver's side headlight housing for a 1968 442 or Cutlass 
(same part on both cars -- silver/grey plastic piece that encases 
headlights+front turn signal).  Can anyone help me out? 

                                                     Thank you,
                                                       Craig.                 
          

------------------------------

From: kissrulz@gnn.com (Craig Dobbins)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 07:49:42 -0300
Subject: Rebuilding original Spiral Shocks 

Everyone,
  I am going to purchase a set of Original spiral shocks for my '68 442, 
however (of course) they're old and need to be rebuilt.  Is this possible?  
And if so, does anyone know where I could get this kind of work done?  I've 
asked around and have gotten answers from "NO" to "YES, but I don't know who 
would do something like that".  Any help would be appreciated, I think they 
look sharp under the rear end.

                                                   Thank you,
                                                     Craig
                                                     '68 442 convertable 

------------------------------

From: kissrulz@gnn.com (Craig Dobbins)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 07:57:09 -0300
Subject: Re: SS III's  in 14x6 width ??? 

>Date:		Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:42:01 -0300
>From:	Frank Boerger <103454.317@compuserve.com>
>Sender:	oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>To:	"'Oldsmobile usenet'" <oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
>Subject:	SS III's  in 14x6 width ???
>
>I need help in solving what appears to be a mystery.
>
>I have a set of what appear  to be SS III wheels on my  '68 coupe parts
>car...the back side says 14x6...the center cap does not bolt on, just
> "snaps'
>in.  Everything I read in Year-one etc, says that 14x6's were only
> available in
>'68/69, but with those  the center cap bolted on.  
>
>Were 14x6's offered in a year, say after '75 when my id chart  stops...
>otherwise what do I have ??  The wheels are not grey, but are a dark
> metallic
>blue, ala upper body color.
>
>Several folks replied yesterday that 14x6 is a 68 or 69 wheel...now I'm
> not so
>sure.  This evening, I will get a part number after I blast the paint off.
>
>Thanks for your help.
>
>Frank Boerger
>'68 Cutlass Convertible/'68 parts coupe
>" Now spread over at least two acres of eastern Tallahassee Florida..."

  Frank,
   I have a '68 442 convertable with all original parts.  My wheels are 14 
inch, and are the steel, non-colored type (SSI, SSII? Not really sure).  But, 
that's what they look like.  And my center caps snap on too, no bolts are 
apparent, but I never removed them, had a set of new tires put on, but the 
tire shop did that.

                                                  Craig.

------------------------------

From: "Jeff Hunter" <jchunter@xcelco.on.ca>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:16:58 -0300
Subject: Re: Saffron? (Was Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 #253)

- ----------
> From: Andrew C. Green <acg@dlogics.com>
> To: oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
> Subject: Saffron? (Was Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 #253)
> Date: August 1, 1996 9:10 AM
> 
> >>Saffron was the color used on the Rallye 350's if I'm not mistaken. 
Its a
> >>pretty strong, primary yellow if you've never seen a Rallye 350.
> >
> >Um, sorry, not the case. Saffron is that "powdery faded-looking" yellow
that
> >has been discussed here earlier.
> 
> Okay, I am barely hanging on to this thread, so help me out: on the
fully
> tricked-out bad-boy 442s or W-30s or whatever of the '68-'72 vintage,
some
> came in (practically) monochrome yellow -- just about everything on the
car
> was yellow, including the bumpers. A _loud_ yellow. What was that color
name?
> 
> Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
> Datalogics, Inc.
> 441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
> Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473
> 
> 
OK- the color on the ralleye 350 is SEBRING yellow, bumpers and all.  I
believe the ralleye 350's are what Andy is looking for here.  All ralleye
350s came painted this color. 

Jeff Hunter
jchunter@xcelco.on.ca

------------------------------

From: ndg@traverse.com (Nielsen Design Group)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:05:10 -0300
Subject: SSII's or III's? 

>Did they make any SSIII's in the 14x6 width ??
>need a recommendation on both the silver grey and the charcoal colors...PPG or
>something.

Hi Frank,

Sounds like your rims could be SSII's: Do they have chrome inserts around
the slots or not? III's did, II's didn't. II's are 14x6 and III's are 14x7
only.

>Also, the area around the lugs should be painted a darker charcoal, right?  I

You mean the primary rim color? SSII's are the ones that are gray, '68-only
SSII's are the ones that had silver paint around the slots. Year one has a
good page showing all the types in their catalog.

What? You don't have a Year One catalog? Get one; it's a handy reference
even though some items may be priced up a bit.

- -Darren Shroeger
 '68 442 / 4 spd




Nielsen Design Group
114 East Front Street
Traverse City, Michigan 49684
t:616.946.0925
f:616.946.2363
e:ndg@traverse.com

------------------------------

From: ndg@traverse.com (Nielsen Design Group)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:05:15 -0300
Subject: Witt's 425 Racer 

>>The motor: shaved BV C heads, Toro UHC pistons, 10.75:1 REAL
>>compression ratio,
>>28-29 camshaft, new double springs, MSD/ HEI ignition, Edlebrock
>>Torker?
>>intake, etc. Hmmm... not in the 12's yet. I still think that a 750 carb is
>>a bit small for all that.  At least it is running a double pumper now.

>Hmm... What size is the engine?  According to the Carb book I was
[...]
>photocopy that section and transcribe it for ya... if you're interested.

It's a 425.

- -Darren Shroeger
 '68 442 / 4 spd


Nielsen Design Group
114 East Front Street
Traverse City, Michigan 49684
t:616.946.0925
f:616.946.2363
e:ndg@traverse.com

------------------------------

From: ndg@traverse.com (Nielsen Design Group)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:05:12 -0300
Subject: Free Fusick's Catlaog 

Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com> wrote:
>Supreme.  You say you can get them from Fusicks?  How do I get a
>Fusicks catalog?

Follow the parts and resto link on Bryce's web page (http://www.442.com)
where you can send an email catalog request to Fusick's. Just click on the
Fusick's link and you will get the mailto: window. I did this and had a
catalog within a week. No $5 charge like they ask for in their Hemmings ad,
either! Cool, huh?

- -Darren Shroeger
 '68 442 / 4 spd

Nielsen Design Group
114 East Front Street
Traverse City, Michigan 49684
t:616.946.0925
f:616.946.2363
e:ndg@traverse.com

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:33:42 -0300
Subject: Re: SS III's in 14x6 width ???

On Thu, 1 Aug 1996, Frank Boerger wrote:
> I have a set of what appear  to be SS III wheels on my  '68 coupe parts
> car...the back side says 14x6...the center cap does not bolt on, just "snaps'
> in.  Everything I read in Year-one etc, says that 14x6's were only available 
in
> '68/69, but with those  the center cap bolted on.  

If the center cap snaps in and is not held in by screws via the backside 
of the wheel you have a much later lookalike version of the SSII or SSIII 
wheel. Probably off an early 80's G-body Cutlass. As far as I know all of 
the 60's/early 70s SSIIs and IIIs used the bolt-on center cap. If you are 
*really* into these things you can tell the diff just by looking at the 
caps on the car. The later-model explanation would also explain why 
they're dark blue. 

The SSI, for those who are unsure, is a totally different style of wheel, 
similar to the common "Magnum 500" wheel used by several manufacturers in 
the 60's and 70's. Chrome with black or gray painted inserts, narrow 
spokes, and a small center cap. Sometimes with a trim ring, sometimes all 
chrome. Early (pre-67?) SSIs will not fit cars with disk brakes. 

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Frank Boerger <103454.317@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:10:03 -0300
Subject: FW: SSII's or III's?

- ----------
From: 	Nielsen Design Group
Sent: 	Thursday, August 01, 1996 12:15 PM
To: 	INTERNET:OLDSMOBILE@CCN.CS.DAL.CA
Subject: 	SSII's or III's?

Darren Schroeger wrote:
>Sounds like your rims could be SSII's: Do they have chrome inserts around
>the slots or not? III's did, II's didn't. II's are 14x6 and III's are 14x7
>only.

These have the chrome bezels...and are 14X6

>Also, the area around the lugs should be painted a darker charcoal, right? 

>You mean the primary rim color? SSII's are the ones that are gray, '68-only
>SSII's are the ones that had silver paint around the slots. Year one has a
>good page showing all the types in their catalog.

Yeah, I looked those pages over real close...that's what has me confused...Greg
B. suggested that maybe these are really from an 80's G-body...which would be
fine with me for now...

In my original '68 Olds brochure(s), it kinda looks like the center "Star" area
is darker...thought that maybe it was high-lighted darker...(dark-lighted ???)

>What? You don't have a Year One catalog? Get one; it's a handy reference
>even though some items may be priced up a bit.

Oh yeah ! I've already bought the floorpans, spring isolators, etc. from Y-one.
Was driving thru one Sunday on my way back from Ohio and picked up the pans to
save on the shipping...nice operation.

Frank Boerger
'68 Cutlass Convertible/coupe for parts
"Now covering at least two acres of eastern Tallahassee..."

------------------------------

From: lacey@dsea.com (Dan Lacey)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:27:27 -0300
Subject: RE: Traction Aids 

[SNIP]

Michael Brady[SMTP:drolds19@mail.idt.net] allegedly said:

>Paul, I have used traction bars for many years on many different
>applications, YES they do work!! Along with the correct shocks
>softer compound tires,etc.ect. I believe other members of this list
>thought i was going to JUST use t-bars for a traction aid. The botton
>line is you have several area's that need attention when you need to
>firmly plant the tires to the ground, take care !! Happy oldsmobiling.

I'll agree on this. As I mentioned about a week ago, my "personal"
preference was to keep as much of the suspension geometry as stock as
possible. You can get very good results for street use.

I would just hate to see someone expect a miracle based on one "magic"
part. I think most people overlook very simple traction aids because they
are too specific about the problem and don't look at the overall system. By
very simple I mean:

- - The right spring
- - The right shock
- - The right tire
- - The right anit-sway bar
- - The right magic part
- - The right bushing
etc.......

All picked to work together. Adding a magic part will probably change your
decision on what "right" is for tires, shocks, etc. For example, T-bars
will limit suspension travel. This has to be taken into account when
specifying the other components.


*************************************************************************
* THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY  *       Dan Lacey ( lacey@dsea.com )        *
*                           *       Dainippon Screen Eng. of America    *
* LEFT BLANK                *       3700 W. Segerstrom Ave.             *
*                           *       Santa Ana, CA. 92704                *
*************************************************************************

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:51:12 -0300
Subject: Fusick 

I've seen a few posts on this business over the past few days and
wanted to say I think they're pretty valuable to Olds owners as
a group. From my experiences with them over the past 2 years, I've
found they keep top quality parts at what I think are reasonable
prices. As an example I purchase a new-in-the-box tailight lense
for my 66 98 (one year one model only) for $25. Pretty good deal
for a 30 year old part, I thought. Especially since they could have
gotten more for it as a unique source.  

Mostly they concentrate on NOS and good quality reproduction stuff.
I, for one, am glad they're around. Disclaimer is I'm not on their
payroll or anything, just impressed with their work.

my 2 cents
chris fair

------------------------------

From: SG Hartfelder <shartfel@planet.eol.net>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:05:32 -0300
Subject: Re: Resto  Tips  .....

JJF97@uno.cc.geneseo.edu wrote:
> 
> before i tell today's resto tip, I want to apologize to Andrew Green and any
> other person that may have misunderstood me due to a mis-communication.
> 
> The actual tip "Bonus" was for the snap ring pliers to be ground down on the
> tips to grab the actual ring portion, and not to compress the plate.
> 
> I hope this better clairifies the situation....
> 
> Now for today's Resto Tip.....
> 
> When installing decals on your car, in many cases you can install them on a
> wet surface, which allows you to position them more easily, rather than
> dropping them on a dry surface and having them instantly bonded in place
> --crooked.
> 
> Resto Corner
> 
> --joe ferrero

****************  Hey Joe.  Your resto tips are an 
excellent addition to the mail list!  Keep it 
going....

S. Hartfelder

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:04:36 -0300
Subject: Re: Fusick

Chris,
I agree that Fusick is the best. Believe me, I have dealt with all of them. I 
always deal with Mark. I believe it's best to deal with one so they' know you.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: John & Robin Whitcore <retrotek@phoenixat.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:13:36 -0300
Subject: Lesson Learned/New Olds.

We just wanted to give everyone a short update on our Olds ownership.  
If you remember we bought the `69 442 from Sunshine classics.  ( which 
turned out to be a valuable lesson in knowing when you're getting 
ripped off....royally )

It is a very long and painful story but we now are the EXTREMELY proud 
owners of a `70 all original, fully restored W-31.  Thanks to A&T 
Classic Auto in St. Cloud, Florida. We ended up losing a little but a 
lot less than we would have if they didn't bail us out.  

The car was one of the owners'.  Just to let you all know how honest, 
and great these guys are.... the paint job on the trunk wasn't to the 
satisfaction of Tony - it was his.  So he offered to repaint it, no 
extra charge.  They are so picky that they alreay painted it once and 
weren't completely satisfied with it, so they're doing it again so 
it's perfect. 

Here's their info - they can and do get parts cheaper than Year One or 
most of those other big catalogs out there for anything they're 
working on.

A&T Classic Auto
1300 Dakota Ave.
St. Cloud, FL  34769
407-892-4099


....R

------------------------------

From: lacey@dsea.com (Dan Lacey)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:21:29 -0300
Subject: Re: Fusick 

[SNIP]

>Mostly they concentrate on NOS and good quality reproduction stuff.
>I, for one, am glad they're around. Disclaimer is I'm not on their
>payroll or anything, just impressed with their work.
>
>my 2 cents
>chris fair

Thanks for letting us know. I plan to purchase lots of window/door/trunk
items to seal out the massive rain we get in So. Ca. ;-) (Actually, it's to
keep the car wash water out!).

I got their catalog for free (just asked...).
Most of these parts places list a price to weed out buyers from lookers. If
you sound serious, you can usually get the catalog for free.

What I REALLY wanted was a new headliner. They didn't have any (and sounded
like they don't carry them...), BUT, gave me the name of ACME headliners in
Long Beach CA! Anybody used them? How about Francisco's Upholstery in Long
Beach (recommended by ACME)???

Thanks in advance...


*************************************************************************
* THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY  *       Dan Lacey ( lacey@dsea.com )        *
*                           *       Dainippon Screen Eng. of America    *
* LEFT BLANK                *       3700 W. Segerstrom Ave.             *
*                           *       Santa Ana, CA. 92704                *
*************************************************************************

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:31:35 -0300
Subject: Re: Fwd: Fan clutches

At 03:02 AM 8/1/96 -0300, you wrote:
>All you get is 
>increased noise and therefore increased valvetrain vibration 
>(harmonics?). All indications point to gear drives being "all 
>show"...does anyone have information to the contrary?
>

Yes, you get much more noise...my brother in law has a 68 Camaro with the
C*evy straight-6 in it, which came stock with a gear drive, not a timing
chain.  When the engine is idling, all you can hear are those gears.
They're quite loud.

- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:32:54 -0300
Subject: Re: Rebuilding original Spiral Shocks

At 07:49 AM 8/1/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Everyone,
>  I am going to purchase a set of Original spiral shocks for my '68 442, 
>however (of course) they're old and need to be rebuilt.  Is this possible?  
>And if so, does anyone know where I could get this kind of work done?  I've 
>asked around and have gotten answers from "NO" to "YES, but I don't know who 
>would do something like that. 

Maybe one of the places that said "YES"??
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:59:00 -0300
Subject: Congrats to Bob Handren 

          
          Just saw a photo of Bob's engine compartment in the latest 
          Popular Hot Rodding.  Looks good.
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:03:27 -0300
Subject: RE: Fwd: Fan clutches

I would agree with you there Paul. They deliver to much stress to the =
valvetrain and camshaft and can wear things out prematurely. The are =
more accurate though. The best of both worlds is a belt drive but I have =
not seen one offered for Olds yet.

- ----------
From: 	Paul R. K. Kuromoto[SMTP:suntzu@ohana.com]
Sent: 	Thursday, August 01, 1996 1:53 AM
To: 	STEE911@aol.com
Cc: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Re: Fwd: Fan clutches

There are no "decent priced" suppliers of gear drives as far as I know,=20
everyone seems to want about $300 or thereabouts for an Olds geardrive.  =

The question, though, is WHY do you want a gear drive?  All you get is=20
increased noise and therefore increased valvetrain vibration=20
(harmonics?). All indications point to gear drives being "all=20
show"...does anyone have information to the contrary?

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: eda@dl.tc.faa.gov
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:15:50 -0300
Subject: Re: FAQ 

Robert Lawrence wrote:
>
> We'll I finally dumped that piece of junk Oldsmobile and got me
> a nice Saab with a Chevy engine... ;)
>
>- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Robert Lawrence   | 1996 Saab
> lawrencr@gdls.com |   __,~--,__\____
> (810) 825-5450    |  /      |~ |    \
> Sterling Hts., MI |  =-(o)------(o)--=
>

And just think of all the free disk space you have with your new .sig!! ;)

Of course, now that you're banned from the list you won't need that much...
;-)

Ed Atlee			'77 Cutlass Supreme
eda@dl.tc.faa.gov		'84 Hurst/Olds
	R O C K E T	P O W E R E D ! !

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:36:53 -0300
Subject: Interesting Junk Mail from my Olds Dealer 

I got a nice glossy mailing from a local Olds dealer last night
with a tempting offer in it. I just _know_ what you guys will say,
so this post is not soliciting advice; just figured you'd be
interested:

It starts out "Dear Bonneville Owner:", so right away I know they've
been buying recent-car-purchaser mailing lists from somewhere. They're
offering me a free 24-hour test drive of a '97 Aurora, anytime between
now and the end of September, with a reply postcard asking me to reserve
a date, and a spiffy photo of a black Aurora enclosed in case I've gone
and forgotten what one looks like. I have to leave my SSEi with them in
the meantime so they can lose my keys until I agree to trade it in.  :-)

Well, if I take them up on the offer I really have to rig up a 24-hour
jaunt somewhere (say, Chicago to Georgia and back) to make it worthwhile,
I guess. Will have to have some major fun in order to put up with the
sales pitch I can expect when I have to return it!

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:38:07 -0300
Subject: Re: Fwd: Fan clutches

Imagine too...the OHC Olds engines used gear driven cams, and there was a 
geardrive available for SOHC Ford 427's...thats something like six or 
more gears..that must be a RUCKUS!

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: eda@dl.tc.faa.gov
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:45:13 -0300
Subject: Re: Resto Tips  ..... 

JJF97@uno.cc.geneseo.edu (joe ferrero) wrote:

>Let me know this, do you enjoy this?  should i continue? I have more, but
>it is always nice to have encouragement if a good thing will last.

YES, I for one appreciate these tips!  Now if only I hadn't gotten rid of
all that cracked, date-coded vacuum line under the hood... :-(  May be one
piece left, though.

Ed Atlee			'77 Cutlass Supreme
eda@dl.tc.faa.gov		'84 Hurst/Olds
	R O C K E T	P O W E R E D ! !

------------------------------

From: "AUVAX7::RILES" <RILES%AUVAX7.decnet@auscam.amd.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 19:07:00 -0300
Subject: Replacing Conv. Top

Convertible Owners,

I need some input on replacing the top on my '71 Cutlass.  I 
welcome comments on pitfalls to avoid, dos and don'ts etc.  I don't 
plan on doing the work myself, but having a shop do it instead.  My 
top has the real glass in back.  Can it be reused?  I hope.

BTW, my car is white with black top and interior, if it makes any 
difference.

- -Robert

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:10:21 -0300
Subject: Re: Resto  Tips  .....

> Now for today's Resto Tip.....
> 
> When installing decals on your car, in many cases you can install them on a
> wet surface, which allows you to position them more easily, rather than
> dropping them on a dry surface and having them instantly bonded in place
> --crooked.
> 
> Resto Corner
> 
> --joe ferrero

Joe:

Using water mixed w/liquid detergent makes them easy to slide into 
position & then using a nylon or soft plastic squeegie to smooth them on 
& get out the air bubbles makes everything easy.

Bill Cullp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:25:19 -0300
Subject: Gear drive timing chains (Was:Fwd: Fan clutches -Reply)

>P.S. anyone know any suppliers with a decent priced gear drive for a
>455??

You might try Summit Racing Equipment.  They don't list one for
Olds 455 in the catalog I have, but that doesn't mean they don't have
them.  The average price is about $225.   They have both quiet and noisy
ones.  I assume you want a noisy one, which would be good, since
they are cheaper.  

Summit has been pretty good to me so far.  I've ordered a few things and
haven't had any probs.  Any one else?  You may see the same parts
listed in other catalogs for less, but that's the price without shipping. 
Summit usually ships free.  And they "have millions of parts in stock and
ready to go!" =-)

Their Phone#'s are:  1(330)630-3030 & 1(216)630-3030
Web Address:  http://www.summitracing.com

- -Blaine Sanders
'72 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: curly@sgi.net
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 19:15:09 -0300
Subject: Re: TORO: 'n Quads  Was: to everyone  

At 04:31 PM 7/31/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Lloyd Culp wrote:
>> 
>> PS:  ow do they get those Quad 4's to run so fast at the races?
>
>
well i talked with a few guys that make those cars and they are serious...
they also sell parts for the street about 1000 bux will get your HO quad 4
down to the low 14's or high 13's depending on your driving!

not bad

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:22:27 -0300
Subject: Re: Saffron? (Was Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 #253)

Craig Dobbins wrote:
> 
>  so help me out: on the fully
> >tricked-out bad-boy 442s or W-30s or whatever of the '68-'72 vintage, some
> >came in (practically) monochrome yellow -- just about everything on the car
> >was yellow, including the bumpers. A _loud_ yellow. What was that color
> > name?
> >
> >Andrew C. Green          
> 
> Don't know here, I'm Craig, the guy who started the "Yellow" thing.  I'd like
> to know this also (LOUD_YELLOW), because that's the color I'm looking for.
> 
>                                                        Thanks,
>                                                          Craig
> >Sebring Yellow.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 19:41:34 -0300
Subject: Concealed

Subject:  Re: Resto  Tips  ..... -Reply

>Anybody want info on making custom lettering and decals?
>
>The 66 Toro and Mike

Sure!

------------------------------

From: mike.blankenship@medaphis.com
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 19:48:49 -0300
Subject: Re: Saffron? (Was Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 #253)

  I have one of those loud yeller 70 w30's.  Sebring yellow was a special
order color.  The trim tag on the cowl has a "- -" in place of the actual
color number, which is 51.

Mike


- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Craig Dobbins wrote:
> 
>  so help me out: on the fully
> >tricked-out bad-boy 442s or W-30s or whatever of the '68-'72 vintage, some
> >came in (practically) monochrome yellow -- just about everything on the car
> >was yellow, including the bumpers. A _loud_ yellow. What was that color
> > name?
> >
> >Andrew C. Green          
> 
> Don't know here, I'm Craig, the guy who started the "Yellow" thing.  I'd like
> to know this also (LOUD_YELLOW), because that's the color I'm looking for.
> 
>                                                        Thanks,
>                                                          Craig
> >Sebring Yellow.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama



- ----- End Included Message -----

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 20:09:42 -0300
Subject: Concealed

Subject:  Congrats to Bob Handren -Reply

>          Just saw a photo of Bob's engine compartment in the latest 
>          Popular Hot Rodding.  Looks good.
>          
>          Joe Padavano
>          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

Which Issue/Page#?

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 20:40:55 -0300
Subject: Sigh

Darn, Hawaii's salt air and plentiful rain is just no good for the 
classic cars.  After my nearly-free 70 Cutlass SX mission, another one 
presents itself.  This time the owner of a Unocal station a friend works 
at is going to GIVE away a 70 442, which I will probably snag.  Only 
thing is that it's in even worse condition than the SX was...every major 
body panel is all but destroyed, the rear quarter panels and the 
sheetmetal between the trunk and the rear window is rotted to nothing.  
ah well..free engine and transmission core...i wish these cars were 
salvageable but that I wouldn't wish a restoration on my enemies..

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: Joe Bazzetta <bazzetta@i1.net>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 21:13:23 -0300
Subject: Re: Lesson Learned/New Olds.

John,
	I'm in St. Louis and i just found a yellow 1970, 4-4-2 w-31 for 
sale....the #'s match and stuff, the interior is fair, outside great 
with new paint, but i think rust may be taking over (in the front of the 
car-the metal side pannels can be pushed down--i learned this when i 
tried to test out the shocks)... anyways, this car has 100,000+ miles on 
it, but the engine was just blueprinnted and it runs great (very 
powerful test drive).  The owner is asking $5250 at the lowest, but the 
car has been for sale a month now since we checked it out (kinda would 
like to know what is really wrong with it).  This would be my first 
car...would this be a good choice, or in a few months have to put lots 
of money into it.  

	Please write back with what u would pay or if you have anymore 
4-4-2 info of a 1970 455cu in, please send it to me,

		Thanks,
		Joe
		who wants his first car to be an olds...

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 00:10:49 -0300
Subject: Lettering and Graphics

Blaine,

First, let me point out that this isn't a substitute for recreating
complicated and/or photographic quality images.  Other methods are needed 
for that.  But if you want to create your own stuff or to recreate 
something that just isn't available anymore, this works ... depending on 
how careful you are.

You need a computer (which apparently you have), a dot matrix printer,
and some type of graphics program.  I have three such programs that I've
used for this:

  Bannermania: A typical DOS banner program with a lot of different
        fonts and the ability to change the overall shape of the
        text: shape it like a tombstone, bow-tie, etc.

  Picture Publisher Lite: An easy to use and also pretty good
        little Windows program but does not allow you to type
        text (though the full, non-lite version will).

  Fauve Matisse: A semi-pro Windows graphics program that allows
        you to do just about anything including typing text but
        is harder to use than the other two.

Any graphics program, DOS or Windows, will do as long as it allows you to
"mirror" the image.  That is, reverse the image as it would apprear if it
were held up to a mirror.  This is critical for printing.

The nice thing about doing this on the computer is, of course, the 
ability to play around with lettering, fonts, images, etc.  A lot easier 
than experimenting on your car!

Materials:  You can buy pin-feed vinyl in eight zillion colors at many
graphics supply houses and sign shops -- usually by the foot or yard.  It
is available in both narrow (9 1/2") and wide (14 1/2") versions.

Create your graphics in the computer then mirror it.  Load the vinyl into
the printer BACKWARDS; that is, so you can print on the paper backing not
the vinyl side.  Print the graphic out as usual.  Keep an eye on the
printer.  Since the vinyl is thick, you have to make sure it feeds
without binding -- you may have to keep some tension on the output end of
the vinyl.  And make sure the printer is set to tractor feed and NOT
friction feed.

When it's printed, cut out the image using scissors or an exacto knife.
This is where how careful you directly effects the result.

Apply using the soapy-water/squeegee method.

You can, of course, get pretty creative with this: separate printings
for different colors, overlapping multiple prints in various shades to
give an "echo" effect, and so on.

The vinyl holds up extremely well.  A sprint car I did several years ago
proved that.  Since it ran only on dirt, it was sandblasted several times
a night.  The painted areas showed the wear, the vinyl never did.

Have fun,

Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: John & Robin Whitcore <retrotek@phoenixat.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 22:36:51 -0300
Subject: Re: Lettering and Graphics

Dot matrix!!!?????   They still produce those things!!!!  ;)

....r

------------------------------

From: "Jeff Hunter" <jchunter@xcelco.on.ca>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 21:42:06 -0300
Subject: '66 Olds production figures

Found these Olds production figures for 1966 on the web, and thought there
may 
be some interest from the group, so decided to post


F-85 / Cutlass				229,573
Dynamic 88				95,834
Jetstar / Delmont 88			30,247
Delta 88				88,626
Ninety Eight				88,494
Starfire					13,019
Toronado				40,963

Jeff Hunter
jchunter@xcelco.on.ca

------------------------------

From: John & Robin Whitcore <retrotek@phoenixat.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 22:57:37 -0300
Subject: Re: Lesson Learned/New Olds.

Joe Bazzetta wrote:

> John,

Hey!! No insulting the lady!  I (Robin) wrote that ;)

>I'm in St. Louis and i just found a yellow 1970, 4-4-2 w-31 for
> sale....the #'s match and stuff, the interior is fair, outside great
> with new paint, but i think rust may be taking over (in the front of
> the car-the metal side pannels can be pushed down--i learned this 
> when i tried to test out the shocks)

We have found that a lot of times when someone wants to sell a car 
quicker they paint over everything.  So beware!  I also heard 
somewhere, somebody please tell me if I'm wrong, that a magnet will 
not stick to bondo.  Or else just knock on it to find it. If this guy 
painted over lots of problems then you just wait about 6 months and 
you'll see that the paint job is worth squat because the rust will 
come right through it.
 
>...would this be a good choice, or in a few months have to put lots
> of money into it.

> 4-4-2 info of a 1970 455cu in, please send it to me

...it has a 455?  It should have a 350 to be original.  

Before you can figure out if the car is worth what he is asking you 
have to make sure that it's definitely a W-31.  Just saw an Olds last 
week that had Cutlass Supreme interior and W-30 stickers put on 
it....it wasn't a W-30.  (But I'm a purist)

My advice is to bring in a mechanic who knows his classic Oldsmobiles.  
Can any of you recommend one?

....R

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 01:01:47 -0300
Subject: Re: Lettering and Graphics

John & Robin Whitcore wrote:
> 
> Dot matrix!!!?????   They still produce those things!!!!  ;)

Nope.  Just take the Olds for a spin on 
trash night and pick one up off the curb.  ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: John & Robin Whitcore <retrotek@phoenixat.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:30:39 -0300
Subject: W-31 machine

Here are some standard W-31 Spotter Tips:

350 engine
Ram Air fiberglass hood
6 cast on cylinder head
MANUAL brakes
No AC
DIE CAST W-31 emblems
Side striping
BLACK plastic fenderwells 
Spoiler

If you don't see all of the above, it's not worth what he's asking


....R

------------------------------

From: Nick DiGiovanni <ndigiova@direct.ca>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 21:44:55 -0300
Subject: Re: Lesson Learned/New Olds. 

At 09:13 PM 8/1/96 -0300, you wrote:
>	I'm in St. Louis and i just found a yellow 1970, 4-4-2 w-31 for 
>sale....the #'s match and stuff, the interior is fair, outside great 
>	Please write back with what u would pay or if you have anymore 
>4-4-2 info of a 1970 455cu in, please send it to me,
>
Just for your info, the 1970 W-31 is not a 4-4-2 but is a Cutlass W-31.
Also, the W-31 had a 350cu in engine.  These should be easy to spot but make
sure you take someone who knows about these cars with you... or ask
questions on this list as someone is bound to have the answer.

Nick DiGiovanni
Port Coquitlam, B.C.
1970 4-4-2 - "Snarls Softly and Carries a Big Kick"

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 22:43:46 -0300
Subject: Re: Replacing Conv. Top

Don't reuse the old rear window. While the window is still good, the material 
around it is the same age as the top. Unfortunately, you have to buy the whole 
package, you can't buy material only.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: Bob Valentine <ravalent@liii.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:42:39 -0300
Subject: Re: SS III's in 14x6 width ???

On Thu, 1 Aug 1996, Frank Boerger wrote:

> I need help in solving what appears to be a mystery.

> I have a set of what appear  to be SS III wheels on my  '68 coupe parts
> car...the back side says 14x6...the center cap does not bolt on, just "snaps'
> in.  Everything I read in Year-one etc, says that 14x6's were only available 
in
> '68/69, but with those  the center cap bolted on.  

   Those sound like late-model Olds SS rims.   I belive the date is 
around '78 and up, and they don't look quite the same as those with the 
bolt-on center caps.

   I've been looking for a set of (I think) SS III's - 15"x7", bolt on 
center caps for my '71 CS.  I've got plain ol' 15x7 GM steel on there 
now, and much prefer the Olds SS look.   Just can't stand 14" rubber.  ;^)

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                    --> ravalent@liii.com  <--
        "Experience varies directly with equipment ruined"

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 00:04:03 -0300
Subject: Anyone in Utah?

Are there any other members of this list in Utah?  Or any surrounding
states?  I'm missing out on everything... no car shows, no swap meets,
no friendly Olds enthusiasts to talk with.  I swear there are no
Oldsmobiles west of the Mississippi...

- -Blaine
'72 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 19:06:26 -0300
Subject: Re: Lettering and Graphics

Mike Frederick wrote:
> 
> Blaine,
> 
> First, let me point out that this isn't a substitute for recreating
> complicated and/or photographic quality images.  Other methods are needed
> for that.  But if you want to create your own stuff or to recreate
> something that just isn't available anymore, this works ... depending on
> how careful you are.
> 
>
> 
> The vinyl holds up extremely well.  A sprint car I did several years ago
> proved that.  Since it ran only on dirt, it was sandblasted several times
> a night.  The painted areas showed the wear, the vinyl never did.
> 
> Have fun,
> 
> Mike
> 
>

Mike:

That's nice.  Thanks.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 00:19:15 -0300
Subject: Re: Saffron? (Was Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 #253) 

In a message dated 96-08-01 10:22:48 EDT, you write:

<< A _loud_ yellow. What was that color name? >>

Sebring Yellow, code 51, 1970 only.  Rallye 350's came in this color only,
including the  urethane coated bumpers.  Sebring Yellow was available on
other '70 Intermediates as well at extra cost.

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 00:19:35 -0300
Subject: Toronado Convertible 

No. This is not a typo.  For those of you who can, you should attend the
Auburn '96 Auto Auction held by Kruse International, August 29 thru September
3 at Kruse Auction Park, I-69 exit 126, Auburn IN

Among the cars they will be auctioning:

1967 Oldsmobile Toronado 2dr. cvt., rebuilt as a convertible by George Barris
for Mannix television series.  I don't remember this, as its before my time.
 I barely remember that one someone said was on the Brady Bunch (saw it in
Reruns)

Paul  

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 00:21:12 -0300
Subject: August Hemmings 

Someone here was advising that W31s were not equipped with A/C (if I remember
the post right, maybe I'm wrong).  I don't know if they were or not, just
thought I would share what I saw Hemmings today.

OLDS: 1970 Cutlass W-31 Coupe, Ram Air, 350-325 hp, 4-speed, 27,000 original
miles, rust-free 2 owner car with total body-off restoration, including
engine rebuild, RARE AIR CONDITIONING, blows ice cold, buckets, console,
factory guages and tach, power steering, power brakes, rear spoiler, tinted
glass, sport mirrors, sport wheel, factory AM-FM radio, mirror finish
platinum silver with blue stripes, build sheet and window sticker, more,
engine and trunk compartments and undercarriage completely detailed, one of
572 built, $15,995.

This is the same place that has the '70 W-31 post sedan w/9000 original miles
(one of 116) we talked about a while back.  They still got it at $16,995.

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 00:21:16 -0300
Subject: Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 #253 

In a message dated 96-08-01 08:47:53 EDT, you write:

<< Sonic Gold, paint code G. That's my guess for the 442 on
 the '68 Car and Driver cover. >>

Uhh, no.  Sorry.  Paint code G was called Willow Gold by Oldsmobile.  My
grandmother's '68 Delta 88 Town Sedan and my own '68 Delta 88 Custom Holiday
Sedan were both painted Willow Gold.  Ugly color (apologies to those that
like this color).  Only bought mine 'cause it reminded me of hers (she's no
longer living).  Definately has a green color to it.  Definately not the
color on that 442.

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 00:19:21 -0300
Subject: Blue/Gray Chapter Fall Meet 

If you're not within driving distance of Hershey, Pa you can stop reading now
and go to the next message.

The Blue/Gray chapter of OCA is planning its 11th annual fall meet for Sunday
September 15th 1996.  Open to all Oldsmobiles and Buicks (we needed more
cars!)  Host dealer is E.O. Miller Chevrolet/Geo/Oldsmobile, 515 E Chocolate
Ave (Route 422), Hershey Pa.  $8 pre-registered by Sept 7, $10 day of show.
 We offer:

Food Vendor
Dash Plaques
Goodie Bags
Trophies (1st, 2nd, 3rd place People Choice)
Best of Show award
Dealer's Choice award
Longest Distance award
Door prizes

Registration 9am till Noon - Prizes and awards @ 3pm

For more info contact - Dave Daniel, 6 Arwin Dr, Hummelstown, Pa  17036
(717)566-3697, or email PHartlieb@aol.com

Thanks
Paul

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 00:26:35 -0300
Subject: Spotters tips reply 

on 70 w-31's don't forget the aluminum intake which says
W-350 and number 6 heads with 2.072intake valves
and 1.63 exhaust valves. 69 w-31's had stickers and the 70's had emblems that
said W-31.  Also 69's ram air is under the bumper where 70's have the OAI
hood.





W MACHINES
(mark prince)
72 442 W-30 race rocket

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 19:31:04 -0300
Subject: Re: Lesson Learned/New Olds.

John & Robin Whitcore wrote:
> 

> 
> >I'm in St. Louis and i just found a yellow 1970, 4-4-2 w-31 for
> > sale....the #'s match and stuff, the interior is fair, outside great
> > with new paint, but i think rust may be taking over (in the front of
> > the car-the metal side pannels can be pushed down--i learned this
> > when i tried to test out the shocks)
> 
> 
> >...would this be a good choice, or in a few months have to put lots
> > of money into it.
> 
> > 4-4-2 info of a 1970 455cu in, please send it to me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My advice is to bring in a mechanic who knows his classic Oldsmobiles.
> Can any of you recommend one?
> 
> ....R

John & Robin:

Try not alarming that owner by using just any magnet & scratching the 
car - use a vinyl plastic regrigerator one.  New paint sure isn't any 
good w/rust under it.  It is more expensive to take that new paint off & 
then paint than it is to repair & paint an original car.

I thought W31's were 350CI cars - not 455's.  1970's also had a 
fiberglass hood w/air induction to the carburetor air cleaner.

I'm not sure which panels in front of the car can be pushed down, but if 
you have doubts about the car - even if you don't - get someone who 
knows something about them to look w/you.  This person should be super 
critical, making the car seem like a lemon.  Think on it over night or 
more & then do what you have to do.

Another suggestion:  Get a book like "Oldsmobile 442 & W-Machines 
Restoration Guide' by T. Patrick Sullivan put out by Motorbooks 
International to educate you on the different models & their 
characteristics.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 19:36:51 -0300
Subject: Re: Sigh

Paul R. K. Kuromoto wrote:
> 
> Darn, Hawaii's salt air and plentiful rain is just no good for the
> classic cars.  After my nearly-free 70 Cutlass SX mission, another one
> presents itself.  This time the owner of a Unocal station a friend works
> at is going to GIVE away a 70 442, which I will probably snag.  ...i wish 
these cars were
> salvageable but that I wouldn't wish a restoration on my enemies..
> 
> 

Paul:

Are we still talking about paradise here?

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: spud@kudonet.com (Spud)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 03:44:43 -0300
Subject: Intro (long) and Q at end 

I've been reading the list for about a week and read the FAQ, so I thought
I'd come out of lurk mode for a moment.

I go by Spud (a nickname from early childhood).  I've lived in San Jose, CA,
for the last 12 years, but I'm originally from Fresno.  Around 1986 I bought
a 1973 Delta 88 Royale (455 cid, defunct a/c and a stock AM/FM radio with
only one channel working) from a neighbor that couldn't manage to get rid of
it, no matter what she asked for it.  I paid a magical $100.00, drained the
fish pond out of the trunk and despite some harsh treatment, I've managed to
keep it running, if sometimes just barely.

The harsh treatment was due to overheating problems that started in Spring
of 1987.  I flushed the cooling system a few times, thinking the time it sat
filling the trunk with water might have allowed the passages to plug, and
had the radiator rodded and cored.  Silly me, it turned out to be the fan
clutch, but I wisened up too late.  I wound up nearly wasting the heads.

On my wedding day in June, 1987, (prefan clutch replacement) we were having
record heat.  I had to drive some 30-40 miles from my home in way South S.J.
to Fremont to pick up my brother (who was supposed to be Best Man, but
didn't) and my college room mate at the train station.  On the way, the
station, the car overheated twice.  I pulled over and let it cool both times
and replaced the missing water (I'd learned to carry spare water in the
trunk by then); the second time, I made it to a gas station.

A blowout argument with my brother sent him back home and my college roomy
took over as Best Man.  The car overheated three times on the way to the tux
shop and twice more on the way home.  What could I do, being nearly broke,
in debt up to my ears, too stupid for words, too cheap and without money or
remaining credit limit on my cards to rent a car, and three hours behind on
that fateful day, but go on?  I still don't know how I kept from seizing the
engine.

Well, I managed to figure out the fan clutch was at fault (hey, it was still
spinning, how could it be broken?) and eventually had the heads rebuilt.
Ever since, I've had trouble keeping exhaust manifold gaskets on it and have
finally grown weary of repeating this same task.  The manifolds are still
flat and straight (miracle) and I continue to use the sheet metal bolt head
"locks."  I currently believe the manifold bolts are stretched and what heat
treatment was on them burned away in 1987.

I recently called a local speed shop and was referred to their "Olds
specialist."  I asked about after market locking methods for stock exhaust
manifolds and was told that there aren't any.  After some talk, he told me
that the stock bolts are not only heat treated, but have a special taper to
them that allows them to lock in tightly and helps prevent their backing
out.  Any truth to these statements?

If so, I guess it's off to the dealer, since I neither trust junk yard bolts
to be in any better condition nor want to spend the many hours it would take
to get a complete set, except as a last resort.  I'd prefer new, anyway, on GP.

I've hogged enough bandwidth.

Later,

Spud
'86 FXST
'73 Olds Delta 88
'79 LeBaron wagon
Spud     "Fart proudly."
         --Benjamin Franklin

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #254
********************************
 
