
oldsmobile-digest          Saturday, 20 July 1996       Volume 01 : Number 242


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 16:02:02 -0300
Subject: Re: Another Charging System tale...

Mike Coccagna wrote:
> 
> The volt-o-meter has been reading 11.5 volts or so when the car first
> starts at idle -> 3000 RPM.  

Too low.  At 3K you should have 13.8v.

> Then, when you leave a stop sign in a normal manner, say revving the 
> car to a 5000 RPM, the volts jump up to 13.8 or 14.  

Where it should be.

> They will stay there for a while at crusing speed (65 MPH=~2200 RPM).  
> When you stop the car, it will drop to 12.5, and then decrease steadily 
> from there.  

At idle, 12.5v wouldn't be out of the ordinary but it shouldn't continue 
to drop.

> Car will begin to stall out at 11.3 volts. 

For loss of juice.

> I replaced the belt 2 years ago and it has a tensioner so it shouldn't 
> be lose.

Belt *sounds* OK.  If it was slipping, you would more than likely see a 
drop in voltage at speed not at idle.

> The battery is also new.

Doesn't mean it's good.  A week battery will drag down the volts at low 
engine speed.  While the regulator trys to keep it at 13.8, it can't 
manufacturer electrons.  If the battery is sucking more than the 
altenator can deliver at idle, you get low volts.

You didn't mention if you have difficulty starting in the morning or 
sitting for a long time. (?)  

Assuming you've checked CONNECTION, CONNECTIONS, CONNECTIONS, (which can 
easily cause your voltage jumping up and down), I have the battery 
checked.  And I'd stay on good terms with that Olds dealer just in case!

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: "Mike Coccagna" <mikec@oz.kis.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 14:07:21 -0300
Subject: Re: Another Charging System tale...

On 19 Jul 96 at 11:43, Andrew C. Green wrote:

> >When you stop the car, it will drop to 12.5, and 
> >then decrease steadily from there.  Car will begin to stall out at
> >11.3 volts.
> 
> You mean if you let it idle by itself, the voltage starts dropping
> and the car then stalls at 11.3 volts? Maybe you could elaborate on
> this. If it does, can you then restart it?

Yes, it'll drop predictably, and then die.  It'll start right back up 
and repeat the process unless I play with the gas pedal and give it a 
rev .  It looks funny on the gauges when this happens  because the'll 
move to the beat of the turn signals...  Car enters the stop at 
regular charge and then goes down quickly (<15 seconds)

> >Now the quandary.  I replaced the alternator 12 months and 1 week
> >ago / 24000 miles.  The graces of my local Olds dealer say they'll
> >pay for the new one.
> 
> ...if the problem is the alternator, sure. Will they pay for
> diagnosis?

Didn't ask.  Just told them it was flaky with the above description.  
I told them to order it and I'll swap them a few minutes ago as a 
precaution.  I can take the old (!) alternator and the newer battery  
to a Pep Boys equivalent and get it bench tested for free.  The free  
alternator doesn't include labor, so I'll do the R&R myself.

> >The battery is also new.
> 
> Check the battery outside the car to be sure it's okay, and the
> cables connecting to the battery and alternator (a bad/broken
> connection will make the alternator go crazy trying to "charge" the
> battery). 

Good battery = >12 Volts, right?  Without the car running it reads 
about 11.8 volts with electronics fired up (computer, etc) but no 
radio/fans....
 
> >Is there any other thing I should be looking at?
> Ummm... a massive, draining short somewhere?

But wouldn' t that kill the battery without the car running?

Mike
'91 W-40 Quad442 

------------------------------

From: "Mike Coccagna" <mikec@oz.kis.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 14:15:47 -0300
Subject: Re: Another Charging System tale...

On 19 Jul 96 at 16:02, Mike Frederick wrote:

> > The battery is also new.
> 
> Doesn't mean it's good.  A week battery will drag down the volts at
> low engine speed.  While the regulator trys to keep it at 13.8, it
> can't manufacturer electrons.  If the battery is sucking more than
> the altenator can deliver at idle, you get low volts.
> 
> You didn't mention if you have difficulty starting in the morning or
> sitting for a long time. (?)  

No problems.  Starts right up.  Also restarts after no-juice death.

> Assuming you've checked CONNECTION, CONNECTIONS, CONNECTIONS, (which
> can easily cause your voltage jumping up and down), 

Well, you'd have to be on this list only a few days to begin to get 
that feeling, and since I've been here for at least 8 months, I've 
checked that out some of them.  I know the battery is soundly 
connected.

> I have the battery checked.  And I'd stay on good terms with that   
> Olds dealer just in case!

I'll pull the battery and have that checked on a bench.  I've also 
learned that a good relationship with the guys at the dealer can 
often get you parts at wholesale prices! :-)

> The 66 Toro and Mike
 
Thanks for the help!

Mike 
'91 W-40 Quad442 

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 16:02:02 -0300
Subject: Re: Another Charging System tale...

Mike Coccagna wrote:
> 
> The volt-o-meter has been reading 11.5 volts or so when the car first
> starts at idle -> 3000 RPM.  

Too low.  At 3K you should have 13.8v.

> Then, when you leave a stop sign in a normal manner, say revving the 
> car to a 5000 RPM, the volts jump up to 13.8 or 14.  

Where it should be.

> They will stay there for a while at crusing speed (65 MPH=~2200 RPM).  
> When you stop the car, it will drop to 12.5, and then decrease steadily 
> from there.  

At idle, 12.5v wouldn't be out of the ordinary but it shouldn't continue 
to drop.

> Car will begin to stall out at 11.3 volts. 

For loss of juice.

> I replaced the belt 2 years ago and it has a tensioner so it shouldn't 
> be lose.

Belt *sounds* OK.  If it was slipping, you would more than likely see a 
drop in voltage at speed not at idle.

> The battery is also new.

Doesn't mean it's good.  A week battery will drag down the volts at low 
engine speed.  While the regulator trys to keep it at 13.8, it can't 
manufacturer electrons.  If the battery is sucking more than the 
altenator can deliver at idle, you get low volts.

You didn't mention if you have difficulty starting in the morning or 
sitting for a long time. (?)  

Assuming you've checked CONNECTION, CONNECTIONS, CONNECTIONS, (which can 
easily cause your voltage jumping up and down), I have the battery 
checked.  And I'd stay on good terms with that Olds dealer just in case!

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 13:10:42 -0300
Subject: Re: Battery Q's. -Reply -Reply

>>>> "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com> 07/19/96 06:33am >>>
>>Moral:  Dead battery doesn't always mean bad battery...  Check
>>*everything* else first.
>
>The Trak Auto chain, for all their faults, at least tests the battery
>you bring in as a core for the new one, and if it passes the test
>machine, they'll say so. Probably fed up with arguing with customers
>whose new batteries die two days later, plus hassling with returns of
>perfectly-good ex-new batteries, etc.

Yeah, Checker checked my battery, too.  When they charged it up and
put it on the machine, it tested out fine.  Unable to let that go, I said, "naw,
wiggle that cable a bit."  The guy touched the cable and *crackle-pop*! 
Sparks and smoke everywhere.  "Judas!", he exclaimed as he frantically
shut off the machine and unhooked the cables.   My old battery was 6
years old, and the posts had been cleaned so many times that the
terminals wouldn't even clamp down on them.  It also had a little short
inside that would occaisionally act up on me.  The battery still held a good
charge, but every now and then -- all too often -- I'd have to pop the
hood and wiggle the battery cables just to get it started.  That was the
major influence that prompted me to buy a new battery.  Ha ha, that
reminds me of another good story... but I'll keep it to myself =-)

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 16:08:44 -0300
Subject: Re: Email Stuff

Mike,

Your lines were wrapped just fine with a length just under 70.

> Also look at the line length settings.  

No line length setting in Netscape's eMail.  Apparently it's determined 
by the window width.

However, I suspect that the wraps are caused by the sender rather than 
the recevier.  These doesn't appear to be provision for a soft-return in 
SMTP/POP email that I've yet discovered.  It is only 7-bit data and all 
of the character codes are accounted for by the ASCII definition.

I may get my ISP to look at the incoming data to see what that turns up.

Researching...

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 14:30:47 -0300
Subject: Re: 4.3 V6 

Now that I remembered to bring the book with, I can post :)!

The book _V6 Performance_ (S-A Design) covers mods to the 4.3 and its 
variants.  Also covers Buick, Ford and 60 deg. Chevy V6.  Published in '82, 
updated in '88.  18 pages on Chevy 90 deg.  Bill Jenkins of mouse motor 
(Blow tie) fame might have a book out on the 4.3.  Check Summit and ASAP 
for a good selection and the best prices.

Cam etc: check Summit, PAW.  PAWs catalog is huge.  Slightly higher in 
price than Summit I've found.  Might want to ask the hot rod mail list 
about the 4.3 buildup (this is abbreviated):

Unacceptable topics:  
*   Discussions about stock street cars.
*   Discussions about magic elixirs such as Slick 50 with no technical 
basis.
*   Ford vs Chevy vs ... bashing.
*   Foreign or domestic car bashing.
*   Purely Cosmetic issues concerning stock street cars.  (Buyer's guide
      to fuzzy dice/air fresheners, for example.)
*   Usenet-style flaming of any sort.

To subscribe to this list, send email to hotrod-request@dsea.com.
Please be sure to include a valid address, one without exclamation
marks, in your request.

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
                  or see: www.cps.msu.edu/~twomeysh/

- ----------------
ok...i have made a decision concerning the bravada pickup...i am going to
stick with the V6 and am looking for a way to get more power out of it,

------------------------------

From: "Mike Coccagna" <mikec@oz.kis.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 14:35:12 -0300
Subject: Re: Email Stuff

On 19 Jul 96 at 16:08, Mike Frederick wrote:

> However, I suspect that the wraps are caused by the sender rather
> than the recevier.  

Well, you drove me to it.  I looked at a message with a viewer 
that'll show me all of the hex character codes in the message, and 
here is my result:

A message sent by Clint had a ASCII 10/ Hex A value (which is a 
line feed (or ^J)) at the end of each line.  Of course, with a 7 bit 
filter added, these disappear....

I've deleted the others and cannot get to them to look and see.  

> Researching...
> 
> The 66 Toro and Mike
 
Preparing ropes for the offenders ;->

Mike
'91 W-40 Quad442

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 16:58:26 -0300
Subject: Re: Another Charging System tale...

Mike Coccagna wrote:

> No problems.  Starts right up.  Also restarts after no-juice death.

Then we can rule out the battery (even though the 11.8 volts is a tad 
low)

> > Ummm... a massive, draining short somewhere?

> But wouldn' t that kill the battery without the car running?

Not necessarily.  If it was a switched accessory, it would only drain 
when the car is up.  Like A/C stuff?

Anyhoo...I vote bad connection other than battery -- Altenator/regulator 
(internal/external?).  Could be an internal wiring problem in the 
altenator, one you can't see.  Take it to the friendly Olds guy.

> Thanks for the help!

Anytime.


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 17:10:17 -0300
Subject: Re: Email Stuff

Mike Coccagna wrote:
> 
> A message sent by Clint had a ASCII 10/ Hex A value (which is a
> line feed (or ^J)) at the end of each line.  Of course, with a 7 bit
> filter added, these disappear....

Interesting.  That would make some sense.  Use a 0A (l/f) for a soft 
retuen and a 0D (c/r) for a hard return.

Investigating...

> Preparing ropes for the offenders ;->

    :o

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 18:28:21 -0300
Subject: Re: Email Stuff

I've reported the wrap problem to Nutscape after I found no reference to 
it any of their support pages.

However, I found the following description in the relaese notes for 
Navigator 3.0 beta 5:

> Compose and view messages and news articles that automatically wrap the 
> text at a fixed width of 72 characters. This helps prevent the viewer 
> having to scroll horizontally to read messages. The width of the 
> Message Composition window does not affect line-wrapping, nor are the 
> line breaks you see necessarily the wrapping that is sent. This new 
> feature is found under View in the Mail and News windows, both in the 
> Compose and View windows. 

???

Still doesn't explain the message truncation.  Will advise.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 15:46:55 -0300
Subject: Re: Quadrajets 

At 11:31 AM 7/19/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Oldsophiles:
>
>Quick question regarding Qjets.  How easy is it to rebuild one with
satisfactory 
>results.  My 82 Delta 88 has had some difficulty starting lately.  This
hard start 

I've done about a half-dozen or so. The first one I was a little nervous
about doing (this was 14 years ago), but once you're used to them

>situation only happens after the car has been sitting for some time (ie
overnight).  I 
>believe that it is a lack of fuel in the bowl.  I replaced the fuel pump
about a year 
>ago so I don't think its that.  

Sounds like the dreaded well-plugs. Oddly enough, I've never had to replace
these on my cars (though they may be leaking on my new Toro... :(

>Is there a book or some kind of documentation on these carbs available?
Its a Carter.  
>The reason I ask is that I'm also in the process of rebuilding a Rochester
Qjet from my 
>truck (first attempt) and I find the enclosed instructions abit vague.  If
I mess things 
>up I'd rather mess up the Rochester.

There is a book devoted to rebuilding and modifying the Quadrajet, and it
covers all years and applications. This is definitely worth getting if you
have any questions (a good $14 investment; wish I knew of it years ago).

One thing about a quadrajet rebuild; if you screw it up, you pretty much
know right away (leaks, overflowing the float bowl, inability to stop
engine, things like that; just pull it apart again and do it right).
Sometimes small leaks from gaskets will go away in a day or so; just don't
overtorque the fasteners (including the long bolts holding the carb to the
manifold; these also serve double-duty to secure the corners of the float
bowl/throttle plate/air horn together).

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 15:46:48 -0300
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Toronado, 425..] 

At 11:49 AM 7/19/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Robert J. Barry wrote:
>> ...they installed 425's in the land barges (both rwd and fwd)
^^^
>Uh-oh!   :O      Good thing your a Toro owner!

Here in Rhode Island, there is no sales tax or property tax on boats; I've
been wondering if I could get a break on my Toro and Electra...

I consider anything over 4000lbs to be a land. My Toro beats that by about
1000lbs, though it is a superb-handling boat (a sloop, perhaps?).

>> A 455 with a mild cam, stock converter and stock rear gears will be 
>> faster on the street than a 425 with the same setup.
>
>By "faster", I assume your talking stop-light mode here rather than 
>county-road mode.  I'll be interested in hearing what Bob H's has to say 
>on this.

Yes, that should be "quicker", I guess. Both motors will take you up to more
than respectable speeds; anyone ever drive for more than 60 seconds
absolutely flat out in one of these cars? I'd say the suspension rather than
the engine is the limiting factor. No, make that the driver's
courage/intelligence/judgment, which should top out at a speed quite a bit
less than any 455 or 425 would.

>And now back to Bob in Florida...

Yeah, Bob, we've got to get a few more of us here to catch up to the
Mike/Greg(g)s of this list...

>The 66 Toro and Mike

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 15:46:52 -0300
Subject: Re: Bob's 409 Pushrods 

At 05:49 PM 7/18/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Thanks Bob, for the explanation. I'm having trouble with my rebuild in that
the valve train is making alot of noise. I know 
>I needed longer push rods but I wasn't aware that I also needed the pivot
shims to achieve correct rocker geometer. I have 
>to study the situation a little longer before I convince myself to do the job.

You only need the shims if, when you adjust the rockers for proper preload
with the longer pushrods, the rocker stands are still sitting above the head
(i.e. not securely bolted down to 25 ft/lbs). The longer pushrods may put
everything right again, but then again they usually won't, so you need to
make up the space with shims. 

>Basically, I would think that you do need to have a dial indicator guage
inorder to make sure that the correct heigts and 
>geometer are achived? Right?

Not really. If you want, Mondello has a valve-stem checking tool (there is
also a GM tool that does this) to check that the valve-stem height is within
factory specs. The total pushrod movement is determined by the cam lift,
which you should have from when you degreed your cam (you *did* degree your
cam, didn't you?). To get the rocker's relationship to the valve stem
correct, you don't really measure anything (except maybe preload); you make
sure that the rocker tip is in the center of the valve stem at mid-lift, and
this is something you eyeball, not really measure.

>By the way does anyone need a set of stock 350 pushrods. They are from GM
in the sealed plastic bags and oiled. They are 
>brand new never used. I bought them to replace the ones in my 350 but I
later found out I need longer ones. They are stock 
>size. Anyone interested, I hate having brand new parts lying around knowing
I can't use them. Let me know...
>-- 
>Regards
>Fernando Proietto

heh... I've got a set from PST, if anyone is interested. Plus a couple of
good used sets. I think stock-length SBO pushrods are pretty common amongst
us performance rebuilders...

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: eda@dl.tc.faa.gov
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 16:16:19 -0300
Subject: Re: Loose Wheel? 

Well, Shawn, I think that shop sucks!!  But I will say that having used
both, I'm a lot happier with the Dunlop Qualifier G/T's than I ever was
with the Goodrich T/A's - used to go thru em by the fistful on my '77.

I think they damn well better treat you good with the wheel, they could
have killed you and/or your 442, and ya know, all these people you know
on the internet, and the local TV news crew just might be interested in
doing a piece on "Dangerous Auto Repairs", in fact, your brother down at
the TV shop might want to do a piece on that, yeah, that's it...

BTW, I should say that I was much happier with my *properly installed*
Dunlops, around $70-$75 a piece installed, balanced, w/a damn good 
warranty, free rotations & re-balance, etc, from my local Dunlop Super
7 guys.  Good luck!!

Ed Atlee			'77 Cutlass Supreme
eda@dl.tc.faa.gov		'84 Hurst/Olds
	R O C K E T	P O W E R E D ! !

------------------------------

From: "Andrew A. Senko" <senko@reston.ans.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 16:28:43 -0300
Subject: FS: 73 442 (from Usenet)

Found this on UseNet (rec.autos.marketplace).
Do not reply to me since I don't know the owner or the car.
- --
Drew


From: rex@Glue.umd.edu (Rex Root)
Subject: CAR FOR SALE
Organization: Project Glue, University of Maryland, College Park, MD

Restorable '73 Olds Cutlass 442, Automatic, straight body, minimal rust.
This car is a daily driver. Owner is buying a new car and is looking
for someone to put this rare car back to new condition. Asking $900 or
reasonable offer.

Please respond via e-mail to  chussey@umdacc.umd.edu  or contact:
	Claudia Hussey @ (301) 405-3679

------------------------------

From: eda@dl.tc.faa.gov
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 16:37:19 -0300
Subject: Re: '84 H/O's, steering gears, etc. 

Congratulations on the new purchase, Shawn!!  Is this another virus? ;-)
I won't mention that I've been tempted by some early Toro's lately, but
I'm looking for something a bit newer and more practical for an 80-100
mile a day car (well, sometimes I carpool, but still...)  I paid too
much for my H/O, too, especially the shape it's in (rust) *sigh* do I
have the rattiest '84 H/O around, or what?  Oh well, I do have a posi
& a shift kit, so *nyah!* :-)  Just kidding...does anyone have any idea
what professional resto places charge for yer average frame-off, like
a ballpark figure for popping the body off and doing the unercarriage
stuff (let's just leave the doors & rear quarters separate for now, OK?
I don't really have the know-how, tools, or confidence to try doing 
something of that magnitude myself, not unless I run into somebody who
knows what they're doing & wants to sweat with me, anyway.

I also think I need a new steering box, have since i got the car, really...
$677?!?!?!  *shudder*

On vanity plates, saw a Vette last night that said, "MYIN".  As in,
"Mine, mine, all mine, mwahaha!", I guess.

Ed Atlee			'77 Cutlass Supreme
eda@dl.tc.faa.gov		'84 Hurst/Olds
	R O C K E T	P O W E R E D ! !

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 15:45:42 -0300
Subject: Vanity Plates (Was Re: '84 H/O's, steering gears, etc.) 

>On vanity plates, saw a Vette last night that said, "MYIN".  As in,
>"Mine, mine, all mine, mwahaha!", I guess.

Nominations for _good_ vanity plates? I can think of two (we have a
seven-letter maximum in Illinois) I've seen in the past:

A dark-blue metallic '69 442:  DRK STAR

A nice Champagne Bronze SSEi:  MY WINGS


Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 16:59:48 -0300
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Toronado, 425..] 

In a message dated 96-07-19 01:17:20 EDT, you write:

<< A 455 with a mild cam, stock converter and stock rear gears
 will be faster on the street than a 425 with the same setup >>


Come on down South and we'll see about that!

Bob Handren

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 16:59:51 -0300
Subject: Re: Carter Carb # 

In a message dated 96-07-16 18:16:47 EDT, you write:

<< Hi all,
 
 Does anyone have a book that can cross reference a Carter carb number to a
 Rochester carb number?
 
 We came onto a Carter carb # 7037931 D-29. I believe it is off a 66 or 67
 Toro. It also has stamped Carter made for Quadrajet on it. I heard that
 Carter did make carbs for Rochester, but this is the first one I ever came
 across. They have a rather unique way of sealing the well plugs in that
there
 are crimped over the sides instead of just pressed in as Rochester did. 
 
 I just need to know what year Toro it wll fit.
 
 TIA
 
 Greg Kalkhoff 
 
  >>

Greg:

Just got around to looking the number you posted in those huge books I
ordered from  AC Delco.  There is no listing for a 7037931.  The highest
number in that series is about 280, nothing in the 900's.  The fourth digit
indicates the year, either '67 or '77.  A Q-jet of '77 vintages would be one
with additional emissions stuff.

Does it look like an early Q-Jet?  The number for the '67 Toro is 7027131 for
no A.I.R., 7027130 for with A.I.R. and 7027132 for with C.C.C.

Are you sure you are reading the number right?  Also, in '67, the carb number
was on a round tag on the dirvers side of the fuel bowl near the front of the
carb.  Later models had the number stamped on the front of the rear left
support on the fuel bowl (Does that make sense?  Picture worth 1,000 words.)

Re-check the number and I'll look again.  Just because Carter manufactured
should not result in a different carb number to the best of my knowledge.
 It's still a Rochester Q-Jet mf'd under license by Carter.

Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 16:59:45 -0300
Subject: Re: new guy 

In a message dated 96-07-19 01:05:49 EDT, you write:

<< Surprisingly few of the posts are worthless, however. Good questions, good
 answers. The Q&A this list produced over the last few years puts Mondello's
 first few pages to shame.
  >>

Amen to that!

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 16:59:43 -0300
Subject: Re: Quadrajets 

In a message dated 96-07-19 11:39:47 EDT, you write:

<< Is there a book or some kind of documentation on these carbs available? >>

1. Get the Olds Service Manual for your year car.  

2. Search old car mags at the library, there have been many articles over the
years.  

3.There is a _huge_ AC Rochester set of books for about $15 that will tell
you more than you ever wanted to know about how these carbs work and list
every one ever made.  Decode all the numbers, etc., all the settings, part
numbers for rods, jets, etc.  Q-Jets are great carbs, just different.

As a last resort, let one of the performance rebuilders do it for you.  More
expensive but I have heard of outstanding results (most recently) and not so
good results (years ago).  One name if the "Carb Shop" in CA.

Somebody asked me a week or two ago for more info on the AC Rochester
literature.  I have the invoice and cover page available for fax to the guy
who asked.

Bob Handren
'67 W-30 Modified
'70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 16:59:27 -0300
Subject: Re: "Quick" Steering Box 

In a message dated 96-07-19 00:33:19 EDT, you write:

<< The new box uses an o-ringed metric end while the older
 boxes use the common 3/8" flare end.  NAPA sells the required adapters and I
 can supply the part numbers if needed.
  >>

Yes, please provide these p/n's.  Thanks for sharing your hard earned
knowledge.

I agree about magazine articles. They _usually_ just give you enough
information to go to one of their advertisers.  Really helpful stories are
usually after most everybody already knows about it.

Bob

------------------------------

From: mike.blankenship@medaphis.com
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 17:32:36 -0300
Subject: OUT OF GAS

 I have a problem thats been making me crazy for months.  My 71 442 rag top
refuses to start up after its been sitting for a couple of days and sometimes
just overnight.  All it takes to start it is to put just a little splash of
gas in the carb.  It will run run from then on, but if you don't put gas in the
carb I could crank for 15 minutes and still not get flow to the carb. I have
replaced all the rubber lines from the tank to the fuel pump, I have put
several "Auto Zone" brand fuel pumps and have swapped carbs from running cars
and still the problem persists.

If anyone has any suggestions, I would appreciate it.

Mike Blankenship
66, 70, 71 442's
69 H/O

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 12:31:14 -0300
Subject: Re: Email Stuff

Mike Frederick wrote:
> 
> Mike Coccagna wrote:
> >
> > A message sent by Clint had a ASCII 10/ Hex A value (
> 
> Investigating...
> 
> > Preparing ropes for the offenders ;->
> 
>     :o
> 
> The 66 Toro and Mike
> 
> --
> Michael R. Frederick, CEO
> 

Mikes:

I believe that I have seen this script acted out on some doctor show.  
I'm glad that you two know what you are doing & that the patient lives 
through it.

By the way, thanks.  That non-wrapping thing is bothersome.
- -- 
SLTG

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 20:36:34 -0300
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Toronado, 425..]

Robert J. Barry wrote:
> 
> My Toro beats that by about 1000lbs, though it is a superb-handling 
> boat (a sloop, perhaps?).

With those front fenders, I'd think a cutter.

> ...anyone ever drive for more than 60 seconds absolutely flat out in 
> one of these cars? 

Me.  (Autobahn - 130)

> I'd say the suspension rather than the engine is the limiting factor. 

In the stock RWDs, definitely.  The Toros?  Not so sure, the front 
torsion bars do one hell of a job but that solid rear could stand a 
little work even with the four shocks.

> No, make that the driver's courage/intelligence/judgment, which should 
> top out at a speed quite a bit less than any 455 or 425 would.

Do I get to pick one?

> > I'll be interested in hearing what Bob H's has to say on this.

> Bob Handren:
>
> Come on down South and we'll see about that!

I'm gonna get there REAL early so I can get a good seat!


The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 20:14:06 -0300
Subject: Re: Loose Wheel?

eda@dl.tc.faa.gov wrote:
> 
> Well, Shawn, I think that shop sucks!!... 
> I think they damn well better treat you good with the wheel...
> ...and the local TV news crew just might be interested in doing a piece 
> on "Dangerous Auto Repairs"...

Yeah, Ed, but how do you really feel.
Go ahead, don't hold anything back.
You can tell us.         ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 20:18:15 -0300
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Toronado, 425..]

BobH592058@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 96-07-19 01:17:20 EDT, you write:
> 
> << A 455 with a mild cam, stock converter and stock rear gears
>  will be faster on the street than a 425 with the same setup >>
> 
> Come on down South and we'll see about that!

HA! So there!

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 20:26:24 -0300
Subject: Re: Quadrajets

BobH592058@aol.com wrote:
> 
> 3.There is a _huge_ AC Rochester set of books for about $15 ...

And I would buy that where?

> Q-Jets are great carbs, just different.

Yup.  Nothin like hearing those monster secondaries opening up and giving 
you a good kick in the *ss.

I seem to remember somebody (Greg Ludlam?) got his Q rebuit by a shop up 
north and was very happy with the price and the results.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 20:43:32 -0300
Subject: Re: OUT OF GAS

mike.blankenship@medaphis.com wrote:
> 
> If anyone has any suggestions, I would appreciate it.

THIS IS A NON-COLD-SHOLDER RESPONSE:

I Dunno.       ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: bryce_smith@442.com (Bryceman)
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 17:37:22 -0300
Subject: Re: "Quick" Steering Box 

Anyone ever do a steering box upgrade on a big car? Steering box is the
last front end part on the Apprehender to need attention. I figure I "might
as well" put in a faster ratio box while I am at it.


 EXCESSIVE IRON rules the road!
'65 442
'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender
 bryceman@442.com
 www.442.com

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 20:41:01 -0300
Subject: Re: Email Stuff

Lloyd Culp wrote:
> 
> I'm glad that you two know what you are doing & that the patient lives
> through it.

Don't get your hopes up.  If we really knew what we were doing, we 
wouldn't be trying to figure the damn thing out.

> By the way, thanks.  That non-wrapping thing is bothersome.

We try...

BTW, what for eMail are you running?

The 66 Toro and MIke


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 17:55:01 -0300
Subject: 455 vs 425 

The gauntlet has been thrown down by a "yankee" it looks like.  Isn't
Providence somewhere up _north_?

Boy, was that a broad statement or what.  A 455 will always beat a 425 set up
the same basic way.  Isn't that what the Yankee said?  Must be a young'n too.
 Didn't live in the days when these engines were common.

If set up _exactly_ the same way he says.  But that's not really fair is it?
 What about equal compression ratios, equal tires, equal weight, intake and
carb but the cam, tuning and the rest selected for the motor?  Like different
gear ratios?  Make all the difference in the world my friends.

The 425 revs higher, and faster with it's shorter stroke.  With the extra
torque the 455 would eventually pull by with the right gear but by then the
425 is long gone in a drag race.  When the long stroke motor came out in '68,
442's didn't win spit for almost a year until the oiling and lower rev limit
were figured out.  The '65-'69 442's were all 400 cid but the '65-'67 cars
were _much_ faster out the showroom door. (To be _totally_ honest, the
'68-'69 weighed a little bit more too, but not that much!)

I'll even go a little further out on a limb.  I doubt very much that an
"equally" prepped (as opposed to identicle setups) '70 W-30 would not put
much of a hurt, _if any_ on a '66 W-30 tripower with a little itty bitty 400.
 A short stroke 400 mind you.  Those '66 W-30s ran like stink!

While I agree in principle that there "is no replacement for displacement"
there are so many other variables that it isn't that easy.  The shorter
stroke and "only" 30 cubes difference make them a lot closer than you might
think.  The Olds big block was not designed for drag racing motorheads.  It
was designed to move luxo-barge 98's smoothly, quietly and effortlessly.
 Long strokes make lots of torque _at low rpm_ and Olds isn't the only good
torque motor.  E.g. the 440 MoPar and others.

According to the automotive engineering degree I have earned by reading motor
head magazines for over 40 years :-)), torque is what accelerates you and
horsepower determines how fast you can go.  IMHO, the two are at least a
trade off for the 455 vs 425.  The 425 can be geared to lauch at a higher rpm
and can run up the rpm's quicker.  The 455 should launch as well with a lower
gear but can't rev as high.

Toss up? IMHO it is that.  I prefer the 425 because it has a forged crank,
has a better bore/stroke (bore exceeds stroke on the 425, the opposite on the
455) yielding less dynamic stresses and the oiling is easier to keep in line.
 Someone posted some time ago the bearing surface area of a BB Olds versus a
SB Ch*evy.  The bearing surface area needing to be lubed in any BB Olds is
huge in the comparison.  The extra length in the stroke between the two Olds'
is significant.

So why don't you hear much about the great 425?  

1. It was never (legally) available in a 442.

2. It was only manufactured '65-'67.  

Except for prepping some Toro's (Yayyyy from all the Mikes!!) for Pike's Peak
runs (where they _blew the competition away_) there was no further
development of the 425 at Olds or Mondello. 

That don't mean they can't run like spit too!   I've run both.  I have a 455
is both my cars right now.  But not entirely by choice.

Enough talk, when and where is the showdown?  My '67 ain't had enough fun
lately and I need an excuse to build up a new 425!

Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 16:19:15 -0300
Subject: Re: "Quick" Steering Box

At 12:04 AM 7/19/96 -0300, you wrote:
  NAPA sells the required adapters and I
>can supply the part numbers if needed.
>
Yes, please do...

Thanks!!
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 18:08:30 -0300
Subject: OUT OF GAS -Reply

Ya know, my '72 Cutlass is a cold blooded beast, too... even when it's
100 degrees outside.  Anyone but me can't get it started at all, because
there's a little trick to it.  This is what I do:  Pump the gas pedal 7 times
[don't leave foot on gas pedal, and don't ask me why 7 times.  It's just
what works =-)], then crank it over for about 6-10 seconds.  Stop
cranking.  Repeat.  On the third cycle, it starts up almost every time. 
Don't leave the pedal on the floor when you're cranking.  For some
reason, it starts better if I don't.  Plus, the engine revs pretty high right
when it starts, which I don't think is good for the engine (just my
opinion)...

- -BS

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 18:41:47 -0300
Subject: Re: Quadrajets 

In a message dated 96-07-19 16:50:19 EDT, you write:

<< > 
 > 3.There is a _huge_ AC Rochester set of books for about $15 ...
 
 And I would buy that where?
  >>

Mike:

According to the shipping receipt for the stuff I purchased 3/16/95, it came
from

Service Parts Operations
GM Corporation
AC-Delco
35000 Industrial Road
Livonia, MI 48150-1250

The item number is:      09XC

Description:                CONTENTS ONLY - 9X ROCH. CARB. PTS & SRV

The Shipper No.         VP006052

It cost $15 without the fancy GM binders, which I proobably should have
gotten too since I have filled to the max three three inch three ring
binders. (That makes 9 right?  Or is it geometric and 27?)

Anyway, the set even includes books on theory and design which appear to be
written around original GM service school overhead projector slides.  _Very_
well written IMHO.

Learned about the existence in a Car Craft mag about a year ago.  If there is
interest I'll try to dig out again the specifics on ordering the set.

Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL

------------------------------

From: mike.blankenship@medaphis.com
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 18:50:24 -0300
Subject: OUT OF GAS 

Blaine,

I will give that a try.  

Mike


Ya know, my '72 Cutlass is a cold blooded beast, too... even when it's
100 degrees outside.  Anyone but me can't get it started at all, because
there's a little trick to it.  This is what I do:  Pump the gas pedal 7 times
[don't leave foot on gas pedal, and don't ask me why 7 times.  It's just
what works =-)], then crank it over for about 6-10 seconds.  Stop
cranking.  Repeat.  On the third cycle, it starts up almost every time. 
Don't leave the pedal on the floor when you're cranking.  For some
reason, it starts better if I don't.  Plus, the engine revs pretty high right
when it starts, which I don't think is good for the engine (just my
opinion)...

- -BS

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 17:14:17 -0300
Subject: Re: Email Stuff

At 06:28 PM 7/19/96 -0300, you wrote:
>I've reported the wrap problem to Nutscape after I found no reference to 
>it any of their support pages.
>
>However, I found the following description in the relaese notes for 
>Navigator 3.0 beta 5:

Ummm...I'm not trying to be an a**hole or anything, folks, but could you
take this to private email??  This is, after all, an Olds mailing list, and
while your problems are related to this list (sort of), they are not Olds
related.  So, no hard feelings I hope.  Just a thought...
    
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 17:14:24 -0300
Subject: Re: OUT OF GAS

At 05:32 PM 7/19/96 -0300, you wrote:
>
> I have a problem thats been making me crazy for months.  My 71 442 rag top
>refuses to start up after its been sitting for a couple of days and sometimes
>just overnight.  All it takes to start it is to put just a little splash of
>gas in the carb.  It will run run from then on, but if you don't put gas in the
>carb I could crank for 15 minutes and still not get flow to the carb. I have
>replaced all the rubber lines from the tank to the fuel pump, I have put
>several "Auto Zone" brand fuel pumps and have swapped carbs from running cars
>and still the problem persists.
>
>If anyone has any suggestions, I would appreciate it.
>
>Mike Blankenship

Check the accelerator pump...
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 11:56:24 -0300
Subject: Re: OUT OF GAS 

     If you stop the car after giving it the initial squirt of gas it will 
     start again right?  But if left for a while it won't start?
     
     Leaking plugs on the bottom of the carb maybe?  Maybe the accelerator 
     pump check-ball not working causing leaking out there?  Needle and 
     seat worn causing gas to flow out of carb back down system?
     
     My best suggestions. . .
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: OUT OF GAS
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    7/19/96 2:26 PM

 I have a problem thats been making me crazy for months.  My 71 442 rag top
refuses to start up after its been sitting for a couple of days and sometimes 
just overnight.  All it takes to start it is to put just a little splash of
gas in the carb.  It will run run from then on, but if you don't put gas in the 
carb I could crank for 15 minutes and still not get flow to the carb. I have 
replaced all the rubber lines from the tank to the fuel pump, I have put 
several "Auto Zone" brand fuel pumps and have swapped carbs from running cars 
and still the problem persists.
     
If anyone has any suggestions, I would appreciate it.
     
Mike Blankenship
66, 70, 71 442's
69 H/O
     

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 18:02:31 -0300
Subject: Re: OUT OF GAS 

> I have a problem thats been making me crazy for months.  My 71 442 rag top
>refuses to start up after its been sitting for a couple of days and sometimes
>just overnight.  All it takes to start it is to put just a little splash of
>gas in the carb.  It will run run from then on, but if you don't put gas in the
>carb I could crank for 15 minutes and still not get flow to the carb.

My '76 Cutlass with a 4V 350 came down with this once. Problem seemed to
be the fuel line emptying itself somehow -- didn't think it was leaking --
and the old fuel pump couldn't prime itself. The interesting part was this:
In the course of futzing around disconnecting parts of fuel line to see
what had fuel in it and what didn't, I finally disconnected the line in to
the fuel pump from the tank. Nothing came out. I stuck a length of tube
into the line and blew into it until I could hear bubbling from the tank
to see if maybe the line had been clogged. When I quit, seconds later
gas started flowing from the line. Hurriedly stuck the line back onto
the pump and the car fired right up.

This didn't _fix_ anything; it just got the car going. Next day, same
problem. A new fuel pump fixed it. I know you said you tried that; any
chance of trying a different brand of replacement? Were these really new,
or rebuilt?

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 19:15:03 -0300
Subject: Not Olds - But Funny and True 

 THE TEN BEST TOOLS OF ALL TIME
 By J. William Lam, Stockton, CA
 
 Forget the Snap-On Tools truck; it's never there when you need it.
 Besides, there are only ten things in this world you need to fix any
 car, any place, any time.
  
 
 1. Duct Tape: Not just a tool, a veritable Swiss Army knife in stickum
 and plastic.  It's safety wire, body material, radiator hose,
 upholstery, insulation, tow rope, and more in one easy-to-carry
 package.  Sure, there's a prejudice surrounding duct tape in concourse 
 competitions, but in the real world everything from LeMans -
 winning Porsches to Atlas rockets - uses it by the yard.  The only thing
 that can get you out of more scrapes is a quarter and a phone booth.
 
 2. Vice-Grips: Equally adept as a wrench, hammer, pliers, baling wire
 twister, breaker-off of frozen bolts, and wiggle-it-till-it-falls off
 tool.  The heavy artillery of your toolbox, Vice Grips are the only tool
 designed expressly to fix things screwed up beyond repair.
 
 3. Spray Lubricants: A considerably cheaper alternative to new doors,
 alternators, and other squeaky items.  Slicker than pig phlegm.
 Repeated soakings of WD-40 will allow the main hull bolts of the  
 Andrea Dora to be removed by hand.  Strangely enough, an integral part of  
 these sprays is the infamous little red tube that flies out of the nozzle  
 if you look at it cross-eyed, one of the ten worst tools of all time.
 
 4. Margarine Tubs With Clear Lids: If you spend all your time under
 the hood looking for a frendle pin that caromed off the peedle valve
 when you knocked both off the air cleaner, it's because you eat
 butter.  Real mechanics consume pounds of tasteless vegetable oil
 replicas, just so they can use the empty tubs for parts containers
 afterward.  (Some, of course, chuck the butter-colored goo altogether
 or use it to repack wheel bearings.) Unlike air cleaners and radiator
 lips, margarine tubs aren't connected by a time/space wormhole to the
 Parallel Universe of Lost Frendle Pins.
 
 5. Big Rock At The Side Of The Road: Block up a tire.  Smack corroded
 battery terminals.  Pound out a dent.  Bop nosy know-it-all types on
 the noodle.  Scientists have yet to develop a hammer that packs the raw
 banging power of granite or limestone.  This is the only tool with  
 which a "made in India" emblem is not synonymous with the user's maiming.
 
 6. Plastic Zip Ties: After twenty years of lashing down stray hoses
 and wired with old bread ties, some genius brought a slightly
 slicked up version to the auto parts market.  Fifteen zip ties can
 transform a hulking mass of amateur-quality rewiring from a working
 model of the Brazilian rain forest into something remotely resembling a
 wiring harness.  Of course, it works both ways.  When buying used cars, 
 subtract $100.00 for each zip tie under the hood.
 
 7. Ridiculously Large Standard Screwdriver With Lifetime Guarantee:
 Let's admit it.  There's nothing better for prying, chiseling,  
 lifting, breaking, splitting, or mutilating than a huge flat-bladed  
 screwdriver, particularly when wielded with gusto and a big hammer.  This 
 is also the tool of choice for oil filters so insanely located they can 
 only be removed by driving a stake in one side and out the other.  If you  
 break the screwdriver - and you will, just like Dad or your shop teacher  
 said - who cares? It's guaranteed.
 
 8. Bailing Wire: Commonly known as MG muffler brackets, bailing wire
 holds anything that's too hot for tape or ties.  Like duct tape, it's
 not recommended for concourse contenders since it works so well you'll
 never replace it with the right thing again.  Bailing wire is a
 sentimental favorite in some circles, particularly with MG, Triumph,
 and flathead Ford set.
 
 9. Bonking Stick: This monstrous tuning fork with devilishly pointy
 ends is technically known as a tie-rod- end separator, but how often do
 you separate tie-ends?  Once every decade, if you're lucky.  Other than
 medieval combat, its real use is the all purpose application of undue
 force, not unlike that of the huge flat-bladed screwdriver.  Nature
 doesn't know the bent metal panel or frozen exhaust pipe that can stand
 up to a good bonking stick. (Can also be used to separate tie-rod ends
 in a pinch, of course, but does a lousy job of it).
 
 10. A Quarter and a Phone Booth:
 (See #1 above.)

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-5450    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 17:34:42 -0300
Subject: Re: OUT OF GAS -Reply

At 06:08 PM 7/19/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Ya know, my '72 Cutlass is a cold blooded beast, too... even when it's
>100 degrees outside.  Anyone but me can't get it started at all, because
>there's a little trick to it.  This is what I do:  Pump the gas pedal 7 times
>[don't leave foot on gas pedal, and don't ask me why 7 times.  It's just
>what works =-)], then crank it over for about 6-10 seconds.  Stop
>cranking.  Repeat.  On the third cycle, it starts up almost every time. 
>Don't leave the pedal on the floor when you're cranking.  For some
>reason, it starts better if I don't.  Plus, the engine revs pretty high right
>when it starts, which I don't think is good for the engine (just my
>opinion)...
>
>-BS
>
>
Man, what a procedure.  To start my car with the engine cold (no matter what
the temp outside) all I have to do is pump the gas one time and crank it.
Starts right up.  When the engine is warm, all I have to do is crank it, no
pump required.  Haven't made any mods to the Rochester carb, but I have
rebuilt it twice.  Seems like yours ought to start easier than that.  It's
not good for the engine to rev high right after startup.  There's no oil to
speak of on the bearings, cylinder walls, etc...bad, bad, bad thing.
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: mike.blankenship@medaphis.com
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 19:25:54 -0300
Subject: Re: OUT OF GAS

Once you squirt a little gas in, your good to go.  I will cruise all day start
and stop with no problem.  It takes about 30 hours before it will not start 
again.  I have changed out carbs with cars that had no problems and still
the same result.  The fuel pumps I have tried have been the "Auto Zone" rebuilds
I just bought a brand new AC Delco that I have not tried yet.


________________________________________________________________________________

     If you stop the car after giving it the initial squirt of gas it will 
     start again right?  But if left for a while it won't start?
     
     Leaking plugs on the bottom of the carb maybe?  Maybe the accelerator 
     pump check-ball not working causing leaking out there?  Needle and 
     seat worn causing gas to flow out of carb back down system?
     
     My best suggestions. . .
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: OUT OF GAS
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    7/19/96 2:26 PM

 I have a problem thats been making me crazy for months.  My 71 442 rag top
refuses to start up after its been sitting for a couple of days and sometimes 
just overnight.  All it takes to start it is to put just a little splash of
gas in the carb.  It will run run from then on, but if you don't put gas in the 
carb I could crank for 15 minutes and still not get flow to the carb. I have 
replaced all the rubber lines from the tank to the fuel pump, I have put 
several "Auto Zone" brand fuel pumps and have swapped carbs from running cars 
and still the problem persists.
     
If anyone has any suggestions, I would appreciate it.
     
Mike Blankenship
66, 70, 71 442's
69 H/O
     



- ----- End Included Message -----

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 22:25:48 -0300
Subject: Re: Email Stuff

Dave Paulison wrote:
> 
> Ummm...I'm not trying to be an a**hole or anything, folks, but could 
> you take this to private email??  This is, after all, an Olds mailing 
> list, and while your problems are related to this list (sort of), they 
> are not Olds related.  So, no hard feelings I hope.  Just a thought...

THE FOLLOWING APOLOGY IS NOT STRICTLY OLDS RELATED:

Sorry, Paul.  No problem.  Since several have posted to me (both public 
and private) that they have the same problem, it though it would be of 
general interest.  Obviously not.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 22:28:21 -0300
Subject: Re: Quadrajets

Bob,

Thanks for the Q-jet info.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 19:32:25 -0300
Subject: Re: OUT OF GAS

Mike,
I think that car just doesn't like you.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 14:34:38 -0300
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Toronado, 425..]

Mike Frederick wrote:
> 
> 
> > ...anyone ever drive for more than 60 seconds absolutely flat out in
> > one of these cars?
> 
> Me.  (Autobahn - 130)
> 
> > I'd say the suspension rather than the engine is the limiting factor.
> 
> In the stock RWDs, definitely.  The Toros?  Not so sure, the front
> torsion bars do one hell of a job but that solid rear could stand a
> little work even with the four shocks.
> 
> > No, make that the driver's courage/intelligence/judgment, which should
> > top out at a speed quite a bit less than any 455 or 425 would.
> 
> Do I get to pick one?
> 
> > > I'll be interested in hearing what Bob H's has to say on this.
> 
> > Bob Handren:
> >
> > Come on down South and we'll see about that!
> 
> I'm gonna get there REAL early so I can get a good seat!
> 
> The 66 Toro and Mike
> 
> --
> The best seat is and always has been in the Toro.
- -- 
SLTG

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 14:51:40 -0300
Subject: Re: Email Stuff

Mike Frederick wrote:
> 
> 
> > By the way, thanks.  That non-wrapping thing is bothersome.
> 
> We try...
> 
> BTW, what for eMail are you running?
> 
> The 66 Toro and MIke
> 
> --
> Michael R. Frederick, CEO
> Mine's Netscape 2.01.  If it is having trouble, please don't tell me. It 
should be 2.02 tonight if I figure how to download it & get it running 
doctor.  BTW, What degree is CEO? 
- -- 
SLTG

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 14:53:57 -0300
Subject: Re: Email Stuff

Lloyd Culp wrote:
> 
> Mike Frederick wrote:
> >
> >
> > > By the way, thanks.  That non-wrapping thing is bothersome.
> >
> > We try...
> >
> > BTW, what for eMail are you running?
> >
> > The 66 Toro and MIke
> >
> > --
> > Michael R. Frederick, CEO
> > Mine's Netscape 2.01.  If it is having trouble, please don't tell me. It
> should be 2.02 tonight if I figure how to download it & get it running
> doctor.
> --
> SLTGWow!  How'd I send so many messages?  I haven't had a stuttering problem 
before. 
- -- 
SLTG

------------------------------

From: mike.blankenship@medaphis.com
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 20:14:45 -0300
Subject: Out of Gas

It would be a good idea if you come to the Nationals in Atlanta, and your
unlucky enough to have a space by a gold 71 442 convt and you see an angry
man carrying a gas can toward it - TO MOVE!!!!!.

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 21:42:58 -0300
Subject: Q-Jet Books 

Ok guys, after an exhuasting search of the Handren Automotive Library (mostly
in the bathroom) I dug out the Car Craft issue that allowed me to order the
$15 worth of gold on the Q-Jet.

This is _exactly_ how it needs to be done.

Write, calling will get you nothing but frustration (right Harry?) to:

AC-Delco
35000 Industrial Road
Livonia, MI 48150-1250

and "Request Manuals Order Form MO 970."

Exactly like that.  When the order form arrives order PN 9XC, which last year
was $15 for the contents only or order PN 9X for $36 in hardcover binder.

According to the letter in Car Craft it took the fellow who dug this out no
less than 13 phone calls.  The people at AC-Delco assured him there are a
bunch of them left, "thousands".

I can assure you it is well worth the price even though you will probably
only be interested in certain parts of it.  As I posted earlier, the
instructional material is excellent. It even covers some of the later model
Rochester fuel injection units. marine, etc.

Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 01:00:20 -0300
Subject: Re: Q-Jet Books

BobH592058@aol.com wrote:

Your a good man, Bob.  In spite of what the 455ers say about you.   ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike 


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 22:30:19 -0300
Subject: Cheezy RH Exhaust manifolds, or the real thing...

> Speaking of dual X 350's, I've been on the lookout for them in the pick-a-parts 
> so I can replace my cheezeball welded off tube on the RH mainfold with a real RH 
> dual X manifold.  Finally found a 71 or 2 Cutlass 2 door 350 2 BBL (no 442 
> logos) at a pic-a-part in Modesto CA.  Crawled under to check the exhaust and Lo 
> and behold it looks like a factory dual with a nice little cover plate bolted on 
> to the extra hole in the RH Xman.  Was this the way all small block duals came 
> from the factory or is this some aftermarket or dealer installed thing?  Snagged  
> the cover plate for like 2 bucks naturally.


	I've been meaning to ask about this very thing.  I bought a pair of 
exhaust manifolds for a 371 (before anybody told me they won't fit my 
394...same block, different heads I guess) and it had the same setup.  
At first I thought it was just somebodys attempt to plug the hole, but on 
closer inspection, I found the thing looks like cast iron (it has the 
seams, not like it was cut from a sheet), and it has a slight dish on the 
side that faces into the manifold.  The holes were also perfectly 
aligned.  I guess it would make sense to use this sort of setup 
(economic sense anyway) since you would only have to cast one type of 
manifold, and for the few cars that got the dual treatment, just cast one 
more little pice of metal.  

	I've been meaning to ask if anybody on the list has a genuine early 
60s/late 50s dual exhaust equiped Olds that could confirm if this is in 
fact the case.  Anybody?  

	I plan on using the cover on my original 394 manifold if it fits 
(have'nt tried it yet) since I want to give the car an original style 
dual setup, but if anybody else is looking for 371 manifolds 
I would like to sell mine.  Casting number on that rh manifold is 588928 if 
it matters.  They were both coated with some sort of grey hi-temp 
coating, but surface prep dos'nt seem like the greatest.  They should 
still work fine, and look good.  I paid $60, but make me an offer if 
you're interested. 
		
	
	
				Scott
			1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98 

------------------------------

From: curly@sgi.net
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 22:41:05 -0300
Subject: quad 4

i am looking for parts or information on making my quad 4 go faster!
if anyone has a high performance quad 4 i would be interesed in hearing 
about it! looking for headers, throttle body, intake, cams, pistons, or 
computer chips for this engine...it currently runs a 15.1 in the quarter

quad 4 lover
Jeff Verkleeren

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 22:44:07 -0300
Subject: Traction help...was Re: My next driveway cover???

> Get a set of "Air Lift" poly air cylinders.  Summitt has 'em for about $50.
>  Pre-load the right rear spring by about 35 psi versus 10-15 psi on the left.
> 
> Amazing what a difference they make.  I've been using them on _many_ Olds for
> about 40 years.  They work guys!  Not quite posi but with otherwise fair-good
> traction make a real difference.

	I was reading a while back about a 65 El Ranchero that was running 
9.30 (!!) in the quarter with a stock (!!!) suspension (rubber bushings 
and all).  They did'nt say if it has a locking or posi rear (I would pretty 
much assume it did with an e.t. like that) but it did have an airbag in 
the right rear spring for pre-load.  They said that if the car pulls 
right, add presure, and if it pulls left, take some out.  Poof!  Just 
like Bob said, lots more traction.  

	I've also heard that dropping your rear end pinion angle a 
couple degrees willsqueeze a little more traction out of it, and prevent 
pinion bind (from the rear twisting and giving to much of a positive 
angle) but not to go too far negative, since it won't reach zero degrees 
even on a hard start.  I guess it's hard on parts, but it works. The 
tires don't get hit as hard and hook up better.  
Probibly a bad idea on a street car though, since very little of your 
time would be spent putting enough tork on the rear to keep it at zero 
degrees, making life hell for your u-joints.

		
			Scott
		1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 22:45:43 -0300
Subject: Re: V6

> >Never built one.  It ain't an "original" Olds motor.  But, if it is the same
> >4.3 V6 in the Blazer, etc. I believe there is a turbo kit.  
> >
> >Bob
> >
> 
> i know it isnt an "olds motor"...but its whats there...and i dont want to
> spend 2300 to get a turbo
>                         zack
> 

	I'm almost positive that Edelbrock makes at least one intake for the 
90 degree V6, and at least one cam too.  I can check their catalog for 
PNs if you want.  I know it's not much, but it's a start anyway.

	
			Scott
		1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 17:59:34 -0300
Subject: Re: OUT OF GAS -Reply

Dave Paulison wrote:
> 
> Ya know, my '72 Cutlass is a cold blooded beast, too... even when it's
> >100 degrees outside.   Plus, the engine revs pretty high right
> >when it starts, which I don't think is good for the engine (just my
> >opinion)...
> >
> >-BS
> >
> >
> Man, what a procedure.  To start my car with the engine cold (no matter what
> the temp outside) all I have to do is pump the gas one time and crank it.
> Starts right up.  When the engine is warm, all I have to do is crank it, no
> pump required.  Haven't made any mods to the Rochester carb, but I have
> rebuilt it twice.  Seems like yours ought to start easier than that.  It's
> not good for the engine to rev high right after startup.  There's no oil to
> speak of on the bearings, cylinder walls, etc...bad, bad, bad thing.
> --
> Dave Paulison        

I agree.  Mine has only done that when the choke has failed.  The 
carburetor is not at its best.  Does the choke close?  How long ago was 
it built?  Is it getting proper gas?
- -- 
SLTG

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 18:04:42 -0300
Subject: Re: Email Stuff

Mike Frederick wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> THE FOLLOWING APOLOGY IS NOT STRICTLY OLDS RELATED:
> 
> Sorry, Paul.  No problem.  Since several have posted to me (both public
> and private) that they have the same problem, it though it would be of
> general interest.  Obviously not.
> 
> The 66 Toro and Mike
> 
> --
> Michael R. Frederick, CEO
>I was interested.  I was interested in why we had a deluge of bounced 
mail too (I still haven't read all that stuff - is it any better as you 
get to the end?).
- -- 
SLTG

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 18:28:02 -0300
Subject: Re: Traction help...was Re: My next driveway cover???

Scott R Clark wrote:
> 
> > Get a set of "Air Lift" poly air cylinders.  Summitt has 'em for about $50.
> >  Pre-load the right rear spring by about 35 psi versus 10-15 psi on the left.
> >
> > Amazing what a difference they make.  
>         I was reading a while back about a 65 El Ranchero that was running
> 9.30 (!!) in the quarter with a stock (!!!) suspension (rubber bushings
> and all).  They did'nt say if it has a locking or posi rear (I would pretty
> much assume it did with an e.t. like that) but it did have an airbag in
> the right rear spring for pre-load.  They said that if the car pulls
> right, add presure, and if it pulls left, take some out.  Poof!  Just
> like Bob said, lots more traction.
> 
>        
> 
> 
>                         Scott

>Our race car (1969 Pontiac Judge) was running in pure stock class NHRA and we used air bags to control a 4-speed posi.  It worked great.  The 
bags fit right in the coil springs.  We just experimented at the track 
before time trials & were ready to go when racing began for the day.  We 
could even adjust easily for either lane or changes in track conditions 
as the day wore on.  
- -- 
SLTG

------------------------------

From: curly@sgi.net
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 23:40:53 -0300
Subject: heads 

Fellow Olds lovers:

Another question How can i find out the size of my combustion chambers on my
68 olds 455 heads...they are from a 2 brl delta 88, Is there some code on
the heads to tell me this info?

Thanks
Jeff

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 23:48:59 -0300
Subject: Re: heads 

At 10:40 PM 7/19/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Fellow Olds lovers:
>
>Another question How can i find out the size of my combustion chambers on my
>68 olds 455 heads...they are from a 2 brl delta 88, Is there some code on
>the heads to tell me this info?

80cc. All big-block Olds heads were 80cc (except possibly H/O "D" heads at 72cc)

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 23:46:34 -0300
Subject: Re: 455 vs 425 

At 04:55 PM 7/19/96 -0400, you wrote:
>The gauntlet has been thrown down by a "yankee" it looks like.  Isn't
>Providence somewhere up _north_?

North??? Nah, it's way down south, almost as far south as the Connecticut
shoreline. ;) (this only makes sense if you're raised with the New England
mentality, formed in the colonial days, which considers anything west of the
Hudson River the "far west", almost frontier land...)

>Boy, was that a broad statement or what.  A 455 will always beat a 425 set up
>the same basic way.  Isn't that what the Yankee said?  Must be a young'n too.
> Didn't live in the days when these engines were common.

Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. Nope.

>If set up _exactly_ the same way he says.  But that's not really fair is it?

Nope. That's the point. Given a stock cam (say .440" lift), unported "C"
heads w/2.00" intakes, tight converter, 2.72 rear gears, in a '67 98 (which
is where I thought this hypothetical engine was going), I'd say that the 455
would be quicker off the line in a street race than a 425. Not by much, but
likely consistently quicker.

> What about equal compression ratios, equal tires, equal weight, intake and
>carb but the cam, tuning and the rest selected for the motor?  Like different
>gear ratios?  Make all the difference in the world my friends.

Yup. Thought I said that in my post. You'll have to tune the 425 for higher
rpm, where it can move and burn as much fuel/air as the 455 would at a lower
rpm.

>The 425 revs higher, and faster with it's shorter stroke.  With the extra
>torque the 455 would eventually pull by with the right gear but by then the
>425 is long gone in a drag race.  When the long stroke motor came out in '68,
>442's didn't win spit for almost a year until the oiling and lower rev limit
>were figured out.  The '65-'69 442's were all 400 cid but the '65-'67 cars
>were _much_ faster out the showroom door. (To be _totally_ honest, the
>'68-'69 weighed a little bit more too, but not that much!)

If the 455 was sleeved-down to make it 425ci, then the short-stroke 425
would be the likely candidate to win in a prepped drag car, since it has
more hp potential with its higher rpm range. I'd say that on the street, the
short-stroke motor would be on the low end of its power curve when the
long-stroke motor is at the peak of it; if it takes too long to get the
short-stroke motor into its power range (say the car is a 5000lb land
yacht), then the long-stroke motor will be pulling away right away.

>I'll even go a little further out on a limb.  I doubt very much that an
>"equally" prepped (as opposed to identicle setups) '70 W-30 would not put
>much of a hurt, _if any_ on a '66 W-30 tripower with a little itty bitty 400.
> A short stroke 400 mind you.  Those '66 W-30s ran like stink!

No doubt. It had more rev potential, could move more air, and probably was
moving a lighter car (given the options on most W-30 cars). 

>While I agree in principle that there "is no replacement for displacement"
>there are so many other variables that it isn't that easy.  The shorter
[snip]
>Enough talk, when and where is the showdown?  My '67 ain't had enough fun
>lately and I need an excuse to build up a new 425!
>
>Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
>'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
>Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL

Well, my dream is to drop a cut-down 425 crank into a solid-main 403 block,
get 490ci with stock bore, and drop it in an '83 H/O. I'd like a 7000rpm
*small-block* Olds, with 1hp/ci, putting out about 500hp but looking like a
180hp 307...

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: RbtNeumann@aol.com
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 00:18:49 -0300
Subject: Re: Convertible Top Replacement Tips 

Just a few things I learned when replacing the top on my 72 Delta 88 this
winter while I was in Florida...as far as fabric goes, there are single and
double textures (maybe even triple)...double is better than single. 
 
As far as the window goes, that can get pricey.  I had to replace mine
because the top vinyl had come away from where it attached to the glass
(lower part of window on the outside).  The guy that did it said it was 1 in
1000 that it could be fixed...I ended up ordering a new window at around
~$180 w/ defog (cost is maybe $60 less w/o defog).  
The top itself was double texture white vinyl from EZ On and has a warranty.
 Cost:  375   It fits well, but I swear there is more buffeting at high
speeds than my last top :(   I also had the well replaced for  45 bucks.
 They did a cheap paint job on the frame and the total bill came to $620.
 More than I initially had planned.  I did shop the market and this guy
seemed knowledgable and had good prices.  

The previous top was still in decent shape and I've never had any problem
with rips or stress points with one exception...where the two spring loaded
supports which hold the bottom of the rear window.  One pulled away from its
fixture and then eventually the other and the old interior fabric ended up
getting ripped in that area...that's all been replaced and repaired, but make
sure the support brackets are fixed firmly to the rear window.

The top repair didn't end at the shop though.  Since then I've replaced one
cable and the weatherstriping where the top meets the windshield.  I also
repainted part of the frame.  I was a little disappointed in having to do
this stuff, but oh well.  None the less, it was not a bad deal and I'm happy.
Good luck...

- -Aaron
 

------------------------------

From: RbtNeumann@aol.com
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 00:16:04 -0300
Subject: Seat belt as restraining device 

I had just pulled into my parking spot at the local library when I unbuckled
my seat belt...it retracted only half way...what the heck?  My waist
drawstring from my pullover jacket it stuck in the seat belt housing.  I
guess it got sucked in and sort of wound up.  I give it a pull...hmmm...a
harder pull...oh, boy...all my weight into it.  No luck.  I wiggle it.  I
pull the seat belt in and out and in and out.  At this point I figure if the
car were to spontaneously catch on fire, well, I guess I'd by creamated in an
Olds...not so bad.  So here I am stuck in my car.  I decide to wiggle my way
out of my pullover jacket...no easy task (if I would have known, I would have
done some stretching exercises before attempting this).   Someone had just
pulled in beside me and is now a little concerned about the freak
contortionist in the space next to her.  I finally free myself from my jacket
and am out of breath.  Free at last.

By the way, after coming out of the library I gave the jacket another tug and
voila...it easily comes free...easy as can be...arghh!  I treat this car like
royalty and this is what I get?

- -Aaron

------------------------------

From: DGMCEWEN@aol.com
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 00:33:30 -0300
Subject: Re: quad 4 

15.1!!   That's pretty good. My SCX has only run a 15.8. It's stock, but fun.
E-mail me, and I'll give you some places for parts. Be prepared to spend big
bucks, though. 

                            Doug McEwen, W41 SCX

------------------------------

From: Dave Voorhis <dave@armchair.mb.ca>
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 00:42:39 -0300
Subject: Re: Seat belt as restraining device 

At 12:16 AM 20/07/96 -0300, you wrote:

>I had just pulled into my parking spot at the local library when I unbuckled
>my seat belt...it retracted only half way...what the heck?  My waist
>drawstring from my pullover jacket it stuck in the seat belt housing. [...]
>  So here I am stuck in my car.  I decide to wiggle my way
>out of my pullover jacket...no easy task [...]

>By the way, after coming out of the library I gave the jacket another tug and
>voila...it easily comes free...easy as can be...arghh!  I treat this car like
>royalty and this is what I get?

It's obvious -- your car loves you, NEEDS you to stay with her, and hates to
be left alone at the library.

Dave Voorhis, '67 Toro, '66 Toro, and another '67 Toro
dave@armchair.mb.ca
http://www.armchair.mb.ca/~dave

------------------------------

From: R4C442@aol.com
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 00:51:27 -0300
Subject: Re: 455 vs 425 

I agree that the 400/425 block is the quicker quarter-mile performer . To my
knowledge, the quickest  factory Olds was the 66 W-30. But I must disagree
with the statement that the 425 wasn't available in the 442 as the early 65's
had them from the factory before the 400 became available.

------------------------------

From: Mike Coccagna <MikeC@oz.kis.net>
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 00:55:01 -0300
Subject: Re: quad 4

curly@sgi.net wrote:
> i am looking for parts or information on making my quad 4 go faster!
> if anyone has a high performance quad 4 i would be interesed in hearing
> about it! looking for headers, throttle body, intake, cams, pistons, or
> computer chips for this engine...it currently runs a 15.1 in the quarter

Have you tried the GM Performance Parts stuff?  They've got some internals in
the last catalog and it's probably much much better than a lot of aftermarket
stuff.

BTW, you didn't say what type/flavor of Quad4 you have?  Installed in what?

One of the newer car Mikes....

Mike
'91 W-40 Quad442

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 02:09:08 -0300
Subject: Re: 455 vs 425

Well, that's a new one to me that 65 442's had 425's in them. I had an early one 
brand new and it was a 400. Guess I got short changed on a car that would be 
really rare now.  Where could I see such a car? This sounds like the stories 
that Hurst put the 455's in the 68 and 69's once they got them in their shop.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <yu135008@yorku.ca>
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 02:37:54 -0300
Subject: Re: OUT OF GAS -Reply

> I agree.  Mine has only done that when the choke has failed.  The 
> carburetor is not at its best.  Does the choke close?  How long ago was 
> it built?  Is it getting proper gas?
> -- 
> SLTG

I think you nailed the problem on the head with the part about the choke
valve closing.  Having to trickle raw gas into the engine or
having to pump the accelerator 7 times in order to start an engine both
indicate that the choke valve is not closing on the '71 and '72 discussed 
earlier.  The starting procedure requires that the accelerator be pressed once
to the floor so that the choke may be set (high [2nd] step of cam, choke valve
closed).  The accelerator pump shot from doing this is not sufficient to
provide a rich enough mixture for starting.  When the choke valve is
closed, the vacuum created underneath it during cranking 'pulls over' raw
gas from the float bowl.  It is the job of the front vacuum break to open
the choke valve slightly once the engine is running; once the engine
has started, it doesn't require as rich a mixture and would stall
otherwise.  Perhaps the choke has been adjusted incorrectly as a
work-around for a broken vacuum break.
 
Kevin Wong

------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <yu135008@yorku.ca>
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 02:54:18 -0300
Subject: Re: Quadrajets

> Anyway, the set even includes books on theory and design which appear to be
> written around original GM service school overhead projector slides.  _Very_
> well written IMHO.

Bob, this sounds like some excellent Q-jet information, thanks for posting
the order procedure!  In addition, there's an HPBook: "Rochester
Carburetors", written by Doug Roe, ISBN 0-89586-301-4.  I've found this to
be very helpful, but am planning to order the GM books you've mentioned.

Kevin Wong

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 12:01:11 -0300
Subject: Gear ratios 

Does anyone have the rear gear ratios generally put in the Vista Cuiser's in
'72?  It's a 10 bolt behind the 180 HP 350 & the Turbo-400.

Thanks much - Lisa Madsen
'67 Delta 88 & '72 Vista Cruiser

Sincerely

James Thingwold
Glass Line Newsletter 
120 S Kroeger St.
Anaheim, CA.  92805-4011  USA

Phone: (714) 520-0121
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
E-Mail:                                  jht@exo.com  
OR                                        jim@hotglass.com

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------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 12:31:13 -0300
Subject: North Texas Olds Club Fall show

Somebody from Austin, Texas asked about the car show in Dallas.(sorry, message 
inadvertinly got deleted).
The show is Sat., August 31. The person to contact, either by phone or mail is:

Chris Deiling
2948 Scott Mills Rd.
Carrollton, Tx.
75007
(214) 245-1292

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 12:30:52 -0300
Subject: Re: quad 4 

get a performance catalog from ch*vy, It has Oldsmotorsports parts for your 
quad 4, such as cams, timing gears, exhaust and other goodies





(W Machines)

72 442  W-30 Rocket Racer
former owner 90 quad 442

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 12:52:37 -0300
Subject: Tri Power intake prices 

My buddy in Buffalo is buying a '66 Tripower intake & carbs.  Is $500 a fair
deal for this - complete and in good shape (1 of 3 carbs rebuilt).  Also is
there a good local source (Buffalo, NY) for carb work, and help for him
retooling these?

Reply to him @ KISSRULZ@gnn.com
He's a proud new owner of a '68 4-4-2 convert

Sincerely

James Thingwold
Glass Line Newsletter 
120 S Kroeger St.
Anaheim, CA.  92805-4011  USA

Phone: (714) 520-0121
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
E-Mail:                                  jht@exo.com  
OR                                        jim@hotglass.com

No frames :                          http://www.hotglass.com/

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------------------------------

From: curly@sgi.net
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 13:02:58 -0300
Subject: Re: quad 4 

At 12:55 AM 7/20/96 -0300, you wrote:
>curly@sgi.net wrote:
>> i am looking for parts or information on making my quad 4 go faster!
>> if anyone has a high performance quad 4 i would be interesed in hearing
>> about it! looking for headers, throttle body, intake, cams, pistons, or
>> computer chips for this engine...it currently runs a 15.1 in the quarter
>
>Have you tried the GM Performance Parts stuff?  They've got some internals in
>the last catalog and it's probably much much better than a lot of aftermarket
>stuff.
>
>BTW, you didn't say what type/flavor of Quad4 you have?  Installed in what?
>
>One of the newer car Mikes....
>
>Mike
>'91 W-40 Quad442
>
>
hey mike it's it just a plain jane olds calais with no options...just have a
ceterforce clutch, K&N, and flowmaster...and no haven't seen the GM book i
supposed i can get that at any GM dealer thanks

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 13:03:43 -0300
Subject: Re: OUT OF GAS 

At 17:32 7.19.96 -0300, you wrote:
>
> I have a problem thats been making me crazy for months.  My 71 442 rag top
>refuses to start up after its been sitting for a couple of days and sometimes
>just overnight.  All it takes to start it is to put just a little splash of
>gas in the carb.  It will run run from then on, but if you don't put gas in the
>carb I could crank for 15 minutes and still not get flow to the carb. I have
>replaced all the rubber lines from the tank to the fuel pump, I have put
>several "Auto Zone" brand fuel pumps and have swapped carbs from running cars
>and still the problem persists.
>
>If anyone has any suggestions, I would appreciate it.
>

it could be the fuel pickup in the tank...there could be enough junk in
there to stop the flow to the carb
                        zack

>Mike Blankenship
>66, 70, 71 442's
>69 H/O
>
>

------------------------------

From: curly@sgi.net
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 13:14:52 -0300
Subject: Re: quad 4 

At 01:02 PM 7/20/96 -0300, you wrote:
>At 12:55 AM 7/20/96 -0300, you wrote:
>>curly@sgi.net wrote:
>>> i am looking for parts or information on making my quad 4 go faster!
>>> if anyone has a high performance quad 4 i would be interesed in hearing
>>> about it! looking for headers, throttle body, intake, cams, pistons, or
>>> computer chips for this engine...it currently runs a 15.1 in the quarter
>>
>>Have you tried the GM Performance Parts stuff?  They've got some internals in
>>the last catalog and it's probably much much better than a lot of aftermarket
>>stuff.
>>
>>BTW, you didn't say what type/flavor of Quad4 you have?  Installed in what?
>>
>>One of the newer car Mikes....
>>
>>Mike
>>'91 W-40 Quad442
>>
>>
>hey mike it's it just a plain jane olds calais with no options...just have a
>ceterforce clutch, K&N, and flowmaster...and no haven't seen the GM book i
>supposed i can get that at any GM dealer thanks
>
>
>
it is possible that your intake gasket is leaking preventing the an
immediate starup...try spraying some ether where the intake meets the head
if the motor revs then ther's a leak...but that won't find a leak on the
bottom side of the gasket..

Jeff
Olds Quad 4 

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 13:18:43 -0300
Subject: Re: Vanity plates 

In a message dated 96-07-18 17:43:57 EDT, you write:

> BTW I don't think the
>coachbuilder ever made these out of Olds 88's (the equivalent model to the
>LeSabre.)

Yep, I've seen them advertised for sale in our local Auto Locator.  I know
first hand that those trannys aren't to healthy to begin with, bet their a
real nightmare an a limo!

Paul

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 13:14:07 -0300
Subject: Re: V6 

At 22:45 7.19.96 -0300, you wrote:
>
>
>> >Never built one.  It ain't an "original" Olds motor.  But, if it is the same
>> >4.3 V6 in the Blazer, etc. I believe there is a turbo kit.  
>> >
>> >Bob
>> >
>> 
>> i know it isnt an "olds motor"...but its whats there...and i dont want to
>> spend 2300 to get a turbo
>>                         zack
>> 
>
>	I'm almost positive that Edelbrock makes at least one intake for the 
>90 degree V6, and at least one cam too.  I can check their catalog for 
>PNs if you want.  I know it's not much, but it's a start anyway.
>
>	
>			Scott
>		1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

thanks...i was checking out edelbrock's home page and they said the cam was
only for non-emissions controlled vehiciles...

i am also thinking of boring outthe engine .030 over and putting in oversize
bearings...if only it weren't for the damn PA emissions laws
                        zack

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 13:19:18 -0300
Subject: Re: My next driveway cover??? 

In a message dated 96-07-18 04:52:43 EDT, you write:

>     ANYWAY...  Those who have made it ~this~ far, let me know what ya
>think.  is this 98 a good find?  How abundant were they?  I don't have many
>details of options, etc.  I didn't see what remained under the hood, or much
>of the dash.  I saw a steering wheel, but that's about it...
>
>

As the owner of a '67 98 Holiday coupe, I can tell you that you can be glad
you live more than a day's drive from me or I'd come and hunt that puppy
down.  Excellent road car.  I'd want to make sure it's loaded, not a Plain
Jane.  And (you can always change this) a convertible color, not something
stupid like gunmetal gray or silver -- a "fun" color.

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 13:19:38 -0300
Subject: Re: NAOC e-mail address 

In a message dated 96-07-18 13:56:48 EDT, you write:

>Does anyone have another address for the National Anything Other than 
>     Cutlass Club.  The one sent out before returns my message to them as 
>     undeliverable.  Thanks

Email address I have out of the Runabouts to Rockets newsletter is :

           naoc@cdmnet.com

This address is I believe for Clay Mollman, the newsletter editor.

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 13:19:04 -0300
Subject: Re: Convertible Top Replacement Tips 

In a message dated 96-07-18 11:39:46 EDT, you write:

>I believe that there are only about 3 or 4 companies that make these 
>things & then everyone uses them as their suppliers.  I would get the 
>best grade that you could afford.  

My '72 Cutlass has an Electron top that was installed in 1990.  I am very
satisfied with this top.  Do not remember cost as it was an insurance repair
:).   The old top was an Electron, too, installed by the previous owner.
  When the shop called Electron to order the new top, they wanted to know
what was wrong with the old one before they would send a new one.  From what
I remember, Electron provides extra wide top pads to help prevent the tearing
problem these cars have above the rear 1/4 windows.  They also recommend that
the tacking strip cover that runs along the last roof bow not be attached too
far down the sides.  This gives the top more room to stretch.  Heavily
recommend an Electron.

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 13:19:29 -0300
Subject: Re: Loose wheel? 

In a message dated 96-07-18 16:45:57 EDT, you write:

>and he tells me to buy a used wheel in similar or better condition and
>they'll replace it. 

You have this in writing, right?

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 13:19:34 -0300
Subject: Re: Need assist with Olds ID - Summary for '72 

In a message dated 96-07-18 13:17:58 EDT, you write:

> Was this the way all small block duals came 
>from the factory or is this some aftermarket or dealer installed thing?

'72 assembly manual shows this cover on the manifold.  That's how I knew what
to do to convert mine to duals.  Cover plate still available thru GM parts as
of fall '93.

Paul

------------------------------

From: "Dink" <dink@infinet.com>
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 10:22:27 -0300
Subject: Re: Norwalk report

> Now about you guys that said you were gonna show...did you?
Yep

>  I looked for Dink in his 80 Delta 88...went up to some guy who was racing one...the only
> one..
There was 2, his was blue and full race,mine was street and dark red. 
 BTW his delta was a Holiday 88, kinda cool looking with the console 
and all.

>.and asked him if his name was Dink...he laughed in my face and said
> "nope, my name's Sandy."  Nice guy.
Seemed like lots of nice guys.

It was a good day of racing i got in 9 TT in the morning and broke 
out in the first round.  Defiantly the best drag for the buck.

Dink
____________________________________________________
Dink                   Cleveland,Ohio
80 Olds Delta 88 Royale
95 Formula 6M, T's, 1SC, Hurst, CAGS!
Dink@infinet.com
- ----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #242
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