
oldsmobile-digest          Saturday, 13 July 1996       Volume 01 : Number 236


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Frank Boerger <103454.317@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 10:02:37 -0300
Subject: OCA  Nationals

>I see many comments about the NAOC Nationals and haven't seen anything about the 
>OCA Nationals in Atlanta next month.  Is anybody going to Atlanta?

>Art Fuller

I plan to be there...anyone know if there is a swap meet attached to this show ?

Frank Boerger
'68 Cutlass convertible ( now covering at least 2 acres)

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 11:21:22 -0300
Subject: Re: OCA  Nationals

Frank,
Yes, there is a swap meet.  A lot of people won't come to it because it's only 
Oldsmobile parts.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 11:37:52 -0300
Subject: Re: Looking for wheels 

At 01:56 7.12.96 -0300, you wrote:
>At 08:30 PM 7/11/96 -0300, you wrote:
>>Does anyone have a set of Super Stock II wheels they might want to get
>>rid of?
>
>Last year at Carlisle I saw dozens of sets (OK maybe a couple more than a
>couple of sets :-)), if you are close enough, the summer event is July 26-28.
>
> >Dave Isho --- davei-2@mail.idt.net
>     >67 Cutlass CS Convertible
>     

i'll probably be there with the Bravada truck...look for it...it might be
green or black...depends on when it gets painted

------------------------------

From: Michael Brady <drolds19@mail.idt.net>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 13:46:11 -0300
Subject: Re: OCA  Nationals

Frank Boerger wrote:
> 
> >I see many comments about the NAOC Nationals and haven't seen anything about the
> >OCA Nationals in Atlanta next month.  Is anybody going to Atlanta?
> 
> >Art Fuller
> 
> I plan to be there...anyone know if there is a swap meet attached to this show ?
> 
> Frank Boerger
> '68 Cutlass convertible ( now covering at least 2 acres)
>>Yes, they have a swap every year!! Happy hunting.

------------------------------

From: FSN6998@aol.com
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 11:47:15 -0300
Subject: Re: 350 to 455 conversion - Part 2 

As far as I know all '71-76 Delta's with the 455/400 combination got the long
shaft 400.  It will work in your Cutlass if you shorten the drive shaft.  You
may also neeed a different yoke that is compatible with the 400 output shaft.

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 11:52:36 -0300
Subject: 330 available... again?

Well, my email got full, and I had to eliminate 'most all back messages.
Somebody on the list here, in PA??? was inquiring into a '66 330 engine, but
the transpo fell thru...

Well, now, there's a guy in MD, near DC, who has a 330... Much closer drive to
prospective purchaser.

So, purchaser, if you can go that far, still interested, lemme know...
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: FSN6998@aol.com
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 11:53:34 -0300
Subject: Re: Toronotes, incl. vac. adv. Q's 

Aftermarket adjustable vacuum advance units from Crane have two means of
limiting timing advance.  The screw in the chamber (accessible through the
vacuum hose nipple)  controls the rate of advance.  There is also a notched
plate that is attached to the inboard mounting screw for the unit.  It can be
positioned to limit the total travel of the rod thereby controlling the
amouunt of advance.  I have found that the notched plate in conjunction with
a stock GM advance chamber works well.  Also check the routing of your vacuum
hoses.  One or two jet sizes up in the carb can also do wonders for this
condition.  

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 14:03:28 -0300
Subject: (non oldsmobile) Anyone need El Dorado Conv parts? 

I came across a Caddy El Dorado convertible for sale parked in front of an
old garage.  No price or phone#
but I'm sure I can ask when I see someone there.  I imagine it's pretty
rare,(the only one i've seen like it, but then I don't get out much) but
it's a basket case.  

I don't know Caddilacs (hell, I can't even spell it) so I can't tell the
year without asking someone.  I think it's
post-72.  The car is about 17 feet long, and only has a 100 mph speedo.  It
actually looks pretty small for 
an El Dorado.  I didn't take a good look but I think the rear window is
glass.  It wasn't fogged over like a plastic window of that age would be.  I
don't really care much for caddilacs but I like this one.

It's tough to call whether the car should be parted or repaired.  I doubt it
can be completely restored but it's not beyond hope.It's a 5000 pound can of
worms. It has a gaping(4'square) hole in the top and is soon to have one
where the floor pan is now. The carpet is torn in spots and I can see
daylight through the rusted metal.  The dash has been pulled apart for
something but at a glance it looks like most stuff is there.  It's got a few
parts strewn around inside.  In short, the interior is gone.  

The body seems straight but then I didn't spend very long looking at it.  I
could tell it's had a repaint before, so there may be bondo lurking nearby.
No large rust holes, but paint bubbles in places. Missing the same trim most
caddys are.  Around the tailights and down the side. 

I don't know what the motor is.  I didn't pop the hood but the car isn't
high in the front as if the motor is missing.

The car sits about 25 miles west of Roanoke Virginia on RT 460.  Near the
village of Lafayette.

If someone is seriously interested in it I'll try and stop in when the
garage is occupied.  (I pass the place daily)
Greg Pruett

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ----------------------------------------------------
The Hybrid Electric Vehicle Team of Virginia Tech
http://www.vt.edu:10021/org/hybridcar/index.html
FIRST PLACE IN THE `96 FUTURECAR CHALLENGE
49mpg city;  0-60 in 12 sec 

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 11:07:07 -0300
Subject: Guesstimating Build Year (Was Re: (non oldsmobile)...) 

>I don't know Cadillacs so I can't tell the year without asking someone.
>I think it's post-72.

Quick Rules of Thumb for approximating the year of '60's-'70's GM cars:

No side marker lights: '67 or earlier
Markers without reflectors: '68 or '69
Markers with reflectors: '70 or later
5-mph bumpers (mounted on gas cylinders visible underneath): '73 or later
(Okay, Olds Deltas in '72 did have a --spring-mounted?-- energy absorbing
front bumper good for about 2 1/2 mph)
And you can always check the taillamp lenses for the last 2 digits of the
year that those lenses were first issued. That should get you within a
year or so of the year it was built.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 05:28:57 -0300
Subject: SLP Olds!?! 

     I just read in the latest Car Craft that there's a rumor that SLP will 
     be "making over" the Aurora or possibly the Bravada as their next 
     project.  These are the same guys who make cars like the Firehawk and 
     (I think) the new C*maro SS, and the SLP Mustang.  SLP also makes some 
     darn good performance kits for many cars (not Olds of course.  Yet.).
     
     Gee, I can't wait!  Now all I gotta do is sell the house, auction off 
     the wife and kid, and I'm most of the way there to affording one!
     
     I also heard a rumor that Olds is considering making another 
     Hurst/Olds sometime very soon.  Hmm...  I hope they do it right!
     
     Tom L.

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 12:49:33 -0300
Subject: Desc. of S S II & III wheels

>>> <mefco@sprynet.com> 07/11/96 07:13pm >>>
>Blaine,
>what size wheels are you looking for?  What year?

Art Fuller
I'm looking for Super Stock II or III wheels.  The S S II wheels were used
first in 1968, with a size of 14" x 6".  The ones I need are 14" x 7" that
were only used 1970-72.  Super Stock II wheels were painted a dark
gray color.  The Super Stock III wheels are exactly the same (14" x 7")
as the 1970-72 S S II wheels, except that they were painted the same
color as the lower part of the car.  Both S S II & S S III came with chrome
bezels around the five holes, and a 14" trim ring.  They also have a hub
"cup" in the center of the wheel that has the Olds rocket symbol.

[check out Mike Hall's '72 Cutlass S in Bryceman's Owner Registry for an
example of Super Stock III wheels]

The original wheels on my car where the gray S S II's, but since I'm
probably going to paint them anyway, either S S II or S S III will do... as
long as they are 14" x 7", rather than 14" x 6".

Did I just confuse you more? Or is that just common knowlege? <g>

- -Blaine

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 14:48:46 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds to Saab 

>Any others out there that found Saab a solution for Olds yearnings?

You're kiddning, right? 
Hey, that's it, we can show up to the NAOC Nationals in about 50 Saab 900s.
(Look, it's not any more off the wall than what he said.)

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 12:57:49 -0300
Subject: Re: Looking for wheels -Reply

>>> Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net> 07/08/96 07:26pm >>>
At 08:30 PM 7/11/96 -0300, you wrote:

>Well, there's a couple junkyards in the general vicinity around here that
>have two or three sets each.  Most need sandblasting/painting/etc. 
>Have you checked the local junkyards in your area??

Local junk yards?  No such thing.  We have a salvage yard that only
deals in foreign cars.  Other than that, I have to travel at least 200 miles
to the nearest big city (Las Vegas, NV), and they've just closed down all
but two of their junk yards and scrapped all the cars.  Some kind of city
cleanup project or something...  The next closest place is Salt Lake City,
and that's 300 miles.

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 13:02:15 -0300
Subject: Re: Guesstimating Build Year (Was Re: (non oldsmobile)...) 

> >I don't know Cadillacs so I can't tell the year without asking someone.
> >I think it's post-72.
> 
> Quick Rules of Thumb for approximating the year of '60's-'70's GM cars:
> 
> No side marker lights: '67 or earlier
> Markers without reflectors: '68 or '69
> Markers with reflectors: '70 or later
> 5-mph bumpers (mounted on gas cylinders visible underneath): '73 or later
> (Okay, Olds Deltas in '72 did have a --spring-mounted?-- energy absorbing
> front bumper good for about 2 1/2 mph)
> And you can always check the taillamp lenses for the last 2 digits of the
> year that those lenses were first issued. That should get you within a
> year or so of the year it was built.
> 
> Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431


I believe that GM stopped production of all convertibles, except the Eldorado
in 1975.  They dropped the Eldorado convertible in 1976.  Of course, someone
could have chopped the top off a later model one.  The person who started
this thread said it looked small.  I do not think the pre-1977 Eldorados 
look small, and 17 feet sounds short to me, so it might be a later
model chop top.  Then again, my 98 is supposed to be only 18.67 feet long, and
it looks really, really long.

I know you all know this, but those Eldorados were front wheel drive,
like our Olds Toronados.  I don't know if any parts are interchangable.
The Eldorados also had that massive 500 cid (8.2L) engine, but I don't
know if they ever really made an effort to get excessive horsepower out
of it.  The other Cadillacs of that period had a 472 cid engine.

I don't know what year the Eldorados went front wheel drive.

I know some people bought the '76 Eldorado in the hopes it would be
a collectors item, as it was the last GM, and Cadillac, and Eldorado
convertible for a bit of time.  The 75 Olds 88 may be more valuable
since it is the last full size Olds convertible, as of today.

The late '70s was bleak period in U.S. history (IMHO).  No convertibles,
K-cars, Mustang IIs, smog engines, disco...

I wish someone would make a full-size convertible again.  I don't think
I'll ever buy a Saab, but I see that poster's point.  And, I can't afford
a Rolls, or Bently.  

I'm still very happy with my merry Oldsmobile, but I'm not sure how many
more years I can use it as a daily driver.

Well, I managed to work a little Olds content in here...

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-5450    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 12:40:22 -0300
Subject: Re: Toronotes, incl. vac. adv. Q's 

>Just note
>the odometer reading at the mile markers on the superslab to check. If the
>odemeter is true....the speedometer should be accurate. If you are running
>oversized tires  > than J78-15's...you will have a LOWER speedo reading.

...and odometer reading as well.

The odometer is geared straight through to the driveline. If the measured
mile checks out on the odometer, you know the tire size is correct and the
problem with speed indication, if any, is with the speedometer head. Once 
the odometer is verified, you could check the speedo's accuracy by seeing 
how long it takes you to go an indicated one mile at an indicated 60 mph --
should be 60 seconds.

If the measured mile comes out wrong on the odometer, the problem is with 
either incorrect gears on the speedo cable or incorrect tire size, and
you'll need to fix that before checking whether the speedo is correct.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 14:00:55 -0300
Subject: Re: Desc. of S S II & III wheels

Blaine,
Yes, I knew all of that, but I didn't know what year your car was.  Whether you 
needed a 6 or 7 inch wheel, whether the center cap bolted on or snaped on, or 
whether you were looking for a 15 inch wheel with bolt on center caps.
I have many of all the above, but it looks like you're getting a lot of traffic 
on the wheels without paying shipping.  If I can help let me know.

Art Fuller, MEFCO
(Cutlass Parts Galore)

------------------------------

From: Michael Brady <drolds19@mail.idt.net>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 16:22:20 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds to Saab

Greg Pruett wrote:
> 
> >Any others out there that found Saab a solution for Olds yearnings?
> 
> You're kiddning, right?
> Hey, that's it, we can show up to the NAOC Nationals in about 50 Saab 900s.
> (Look, it's not any more off the wall than what he said.)
>>Yep, those saabs are just the ticket to replace my 425 horse big
>>block olds!!! My 4-4-2 just is'nt sensible anymore!!I think i'll
>>scury down to the saab dealer with check in hand today!!

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 14:23:48 -0300
Subject: Re: Windshield antenna ground

On Wed, 10 Jul 1996, Jason Barnes wrote:
> I have a Year One windshield antenna ground clip (9827N) which is
> supposed to mount on the cowl area of 71 & 72's and contact the hood.  
> Does anyone where and how this mounts? (ie open end toward the front?)

I know that on later models the clip mounted with the open end facing the 
windshield, but I'm not sure about '71s or '72s.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Michael Brady <drolds19@mail.idt.net>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 16:29:47 -0300
Subject: Re: SLP Olds!?!

Tom Lentz wrote:
> 
>      I just read in the latest Car Craft that there's a rumor that SLP will
>      be "making over" the Aurora or possibly the Bravada as their next
>      project.  These are the same guys who make cars like the Firehawk and
>      (I think) the new C*maro SS, and the SLP Mustang.  SLP also makes some
>      darn good performance kits for many cars (not Olds of course.  Yet.).
> 
>      Gee, I can't wait!  Now all I gotta do is sell the house, auction off
>      the wife and kid, and I'm most of the way there to affording one!
> 
>      I also heard a rumor that Olds is considering making another
>      Hurst/Olds sometime very soon.  Hmm...  I hope they do it right!
> 
>      Tom L.
>> Hello tom, speaking of these types of cars i recently drove a 96'
>>SVT cobra mustang and i must say it really cooked!! I had'nt heard
>>that rumor about the hurst but on what platform would they build one?
>>Happy oldsmobiling!!!

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 14:33:29 -0300
Subject: Re: Toronotes, incl. vac. adv. Q's 

> >Just note
> >the odometer reading at the mile markers on the superslab to check. If the
> >odemeter is true....the speedometer should be accurate. If you are running
> >oversized tires  > than J78-15's...you will have a LOWER speedo reading.
> 
> ...and odometer reading as well.
> 
> The odometer is geared straight through to the driveline. If the measured
> mile checks out on the odometer, you know the tire size is correct and the
> problem with speed indication, if any, is with the speedometer head. Once 
> the odometer is verified, you could check the speedo's accuracy by seeing 
> how long it takes you to go an indicated one mile at an indicated 60 mph --
> should be 60 seconds.
> 
> If the measured mile comes out wrong on the odometer, the problem is with 
> either incorrect gears on the speedo cable or incorrect tire size, and
> you'll need to fix that before checking whether the speedo is correct.
> 
> Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431

Just to add some more notes...

The tires you should ne able to check by eye.  I believe that the Toros
should be using a P235-75R15.  I believe that that corresponds to the 
J78-15's.  I forget exactly what those numbers mean, but that won't
stop me from lecturing.

In both cases the 15 is the wheel size (diameter in inches).

The 235 (in mm) is the width of the tire.  The heavier the car, and the load it
carries, the wider the tire.  You want the weight distributed over more
area.  I think this corresponds to the J.

The 78? and the 75 are the height of the tire.

Someone please tell me if I got this mixed up.

So... the width does not affect the speedometer reading.  The wheel size
and height do affect the speedometer reading.  I believe that performance
tires tend to be shorter and wider (60's and 70's, instead of 75's).

Thus, they may give you a HIGHER speedometer reading.

Also, unless you have a speedometer test area on your local highway,
those milage markers are not be very exact.  Average it over 10
miles, or so, and try it a couple times in different places.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-5450    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: JJF97@uno.cc.geneseo.edu
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 16:19:47 -0300
Subject: If you promise to be nice.......

I feel that the increasing the years allowed in NAOC is very lagitimate.

if you raise your points to NAOC showing their benifits by allowing more
model years, or asking why the cut off is at 1964 in a nice polite way....

(so to get things done with ease)

... NAOC e-mail address is:



		naoc@cdmnet.com



i think even if they wanted to keep it an "older vintage club", 30 years is
a possible  age (still adding a model year every year, and admitting cars
up to 1967 as of NOW)  it would better benifit all!

let me know if anyone drops them a line,  and if you get a response!




- --a young kid with an old olds (1947 /1948)

------------------------------

From: "Andrew A. Senko" <senko@reston.ans.net>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 16:12:41 -0300
Subject: vacation/mailing list

>           Well, I'll be off the air for the next week and a half, as 
>           we are leaving for Hawaii first thing in the morming.  I 
>           need sympathy for two reasons.
>           
>           First, we're taking the three kids
>           
>           Shoot me now.
>           
>           Second, we're taking the mother-in-law
>           
>           Third (our main weapon is fear...fear and surprise, our two 
>           main weapons...), there will be at least 800 messages from 
>           this mail list when I get back to the office (not counting 
>           any goofy mail messages).  Greg, please don't delete me if 
>           my mail box gets full...
>           
>           Joe Padavano


Something I've done in the past that I recommend for others in this
situation is to leave the mailing list for the vacation and subscribe to the
digest instead.  However, you may find as I have that you prefer the digest
once you return.

To do this, unsubscribe from the list by sending a message to 

	majordomo@ccn.cs.dal.ca

with the body containing

	unsubscribe oldsmobile

Then send another message to 
 
        majordomo@ccn.cs.dal.ca
 
with the body containing
 
        subscribe oldsmobile-digest
 
Greg, is this correct?
.-- 
                     _
                     |\            Convertibles                     
      .__====-_._____|_\______         Rule!                        Drew Senko
      [   ___  |-     |  ___  \                           senko@reston.ans.net
      =\_//.\\_|______|_//.\\__)                  http://members.gnn.com/senko
 _________\_/____________\_/__________________________________________________

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 16:24:02 -0300
Subject: I forget

> > Andy Williams/My Sweet Lord
> > Vikki Carr/ The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down
> > The Bill Walker Orchestra/Sunday Morning Comin' Down
>
> :o
>
> Now I think we've finally found out why 8-tracks died out!
> Michael R. Frederick, CEO

I always liked the way the other tracks would be heard in the background! And
the fact that a carful of tapes holds about 30 min. of this joyous experience.
When I was in HS, my brother was a great source of mirth to the other kids,
when he'd give them a ride to school, as he played *country* music on his
8-track player, whereas most kids were rock fans. Who's laughing *now*, huh?

> for bad jokes and electrical fires). Let me know today what you think and I
> promise (fingers crossed) that I will be gone tommorrow. ;-)
>                  Pat Clark

Yeah, me too. :-)

> I've been living in London, England for the last 11 months, and happen
> to be restoring a '69 H/O back in Maryland -real slowly- due to distance
>--snip--
> Orders anyone? Mikee

Seems to be a strong demand for cute blondes here! They didn't say for sure,
but prolly *girls*. If you find 'em in a junkyard, well, double bonus, eh?
Compatible cute blondes!

> They also have the JC Whitnet catalog online!  Didn't puruse it, so beware!
> David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157

Dang! What next! You suppose pink wipers would go well with the neon underbody
lights on a REO? :-)

> I know that I am causing trouble, but should anyone ask if we are
> prejudiced against the "NEW" cars from Oldsmobile?  It sounds a little
> like the NAOC that we have been railing against.  That 1988 is 9 years
> old now & distinctive enough that people wouldn't buy them new. Happily,
> the only comments that I have heard are those of WELCOME!

Certainly not. I know absolutely squat about Oldses newer than 1982 or so. Thus
silence, no point in piping in with "I know nothing!", eh? Glad you're happy
with it, tell us more. Frankly, I don't see a newish car in my near future, if
I do get any extra cash anytime soon, it's going to get the 442's drivable
again. And a *new* family vehicle, which I am sure will be a van.
  Speaking of which, saw "Get Shorty" where the Olds Silhouette plays a
significant role, referred to more than once as "the Cadillac of minivans"...
and the preview of a Woody Harrelson movie in which he spends a great deal of
time, apparently, in a rather ratty old 70-1-2-whatever Cutlass convertible.
Can't recall the title...

> Mike
> '91 W-40 Quad442 (too young/small for its name?)

Dern kids & their *hot rods* ! :-)

> Ok, I found out yesterday that the car is a '75 (?) Delta 88 Royale.  The
> interior is pretty much trashed, but the body is straight.  I didn't notice an

> rust.  It has tilt wheel, power steering/brakes/windows.  The headliner
> and sun visors are in pretty good shape, but they are that disgusting
> green color that nobody likes.  It's a 2-door model.  Anyone want
> anything?  I only want the engine, tranny, and axle... and maybe the
> power windows.

Ah, the *2-door*! Had a guy looking for a window a while back, only place that
had one wanted $200 for it. I'd love to add it to my coollection [sic], can you
bring it to Michigan?

> tork, etc.)?  Also, can anyone confirm whether or not the TH400 would
> have the long shaft or the short shaft, and will it fit in my '72 Cutlass
> Supreme without drastic mods?  I looked in my 72-79 Chiltons manual this
> morning, but it didn't have the Delta 88.
> - -BS

Long shaft, easily converted to shortie during rebuild. Yokes are diff dia.
splines, so... keep the driveshaft's front yoke.

> * Second, are there available any heater control valves for the '69 Toro
> with Comfortron? The one with the opening and triangular flange to mount the
> water temp sensor? Currently, the sensor is hose-clamped to the outside of

Used, yes. I presume you tried a dealer, and the local oh say NAPA store?

> about 10-15mph high! I'd imagine I'd have difficulty just swapping out
> speedometer gears in the transmission, since there were only a couple ratios
> available in the Toros. Any experience here?

Seems like they mighta used the same GEARS that other transes used for the
speedo drive.

> > For all you Oldsmobile fans. Here's an offer you can't pass up!
> > FOR SALE: 1967 Oldsmobile Delmont 88
> Pass.... Pat Clark

Pass... Chris. Got a 67 98 LS already. I'll give ya $100 for it, if it still
turns over...

> > Bill Culp, B. Brown, any others?
> Yeah, me.  One right bumperhorn, please.
> Michael R. Frederick, CEO

Oh, yeah, that. Um, I presume you mean that little 6" pc of bumper that
constitutes the far end. looks like a ship's hull. Well, it's mildly dented,
and very slightly rusted. If ya want one like that, I'll be glad to help you.
If you need a perfect one, no got.

> I have that problem... well, had that problem... since the cable went
> last week the speedometer just reads zero.  Someone mentioned
> possible weak magnets in the speedometer?  I don't know how to fix it.
> Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.

Uh, replace the speedo cable? Just a guess. For RL's problem, that is.

>           which gets thicker as it gets hot (?).  In fact, the
>           predominant failure mode is that the seal fails and all the
>           silicone leaks out.

Had a fan clutch bearing sieze once. Made that fan ROAR!

>           Did those '64 Toros come with the 3-barrel carb?
>           Joe Padavano

VERY funny, Joe! If you would care to look at *the* technical reference manual,
Mr. Mondello's, in the cam bank angle chart, you'll see that he lists the
  "425, except Toronado" engine for *1965*.
Sheesh, the only thing rarer than a '65 Toro with the 3V carb would be a '66
Camaro...

> One other point.  Anytime you pull an axle mark the position of the axle
> bearing race relative to the housing as you pull it out of the housing.
>  E.g., mark the "top".  Try to put it back in the same position.  I have
> experienced rapid bearing failure, even on bearings that were fairly new when
> the axle was pulled, when I just stuck it back in any old way.  I suspect
> they take a "set" or wear pattern.  Disturb it and premature failure may
> result.  No proof, just a strong suspicion and it isn't a big deal to do.
> Bob Handren

Bitchin' tech post on the gears, Bob! When you started the bearing paragraph, I
thought you were gonna recommend flipping it over, to even out the wear... but
yeah, I guess usually parts do like to go back together the way they have been
used to running. Rockers, all that.

> on idle.  Still hasn't been a problem with the low amperage requirements low
> run time at idle speeds. Bob Handren

Heh... "But officer, I *have* to go that fast, or the battery won't charge!
It's that dern underdrive pulley, you know."

> bragging in a recent issue about how _they_ were now on the net. I also
> heard that they're making a note to consult us for Oldsmobile input in
> the future should the need arise -- hear that, Chris Witt?  :-)
> Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431

Hear what? :)
>From "American Graffitti":
Wolfman: "Hey, you guys got any more of them secret agent spy scopes?"
Pizza jockey: "Hit parade on the stethescope??!"

> everyone is welcome here, as you correctly surmised.
> Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Which is not to say that we can always solve every problem, nor even offer ANY
enlightenment for some questions... but we can try. Do not take silence as a
cold shoulder, it might be plain lack of helpful info.

> I guess I'll send a message and fins out. Bob
>           I also did.  We'll see what happens.
>           Joe Padavano

OK, when you guys "fins out", lettuce snow!

>           (Well, I alway say, better to be a smart**s than a dumb**s)

Back when we were youngsters, my older brother & I were pestering the neighbor
out at the farm. When he asked us, "is your sister a smartass like you two?" of
course we looked at each other and replied, in unison, "no, she's a dumb**s!"
Heh. Not really of course, in fact she was the 1st in the family to get a Ph.D.
Sure couldn't resist that one at the time, though!.

> The only other part of the brake system that doesn't work is the emergency
> brake.  It hasn't worked for at least ten years; the cable that attaches to
> the pedal is broken.  Wha

Those cables are like, what, $30 or so... Aye!

> Also, I counted the rotations to try to figure out my rear end ratio.
> Raised the right rear off the ground, put trans in neutral, and turned the
> tire.  For every one revolution of the tire, the axle went around
> approximately one and a quarter times.  That seems like a _Really_ _Low_
> _Ratio_ to me.  I did it about three times to make sure I was counting
> revolutions correctly.  Do those numbers sound right?

Well, that's cuz you need one full revolution of the whole rear end. that's one
turn on BOTH wheels... or, of course, *2* turns of ONE wheel! Or 1.5 of one and
0.5 of the other, etc. And, of course, accuracy improves as # of reps
increases, as another poster noted... go for 10 turns of the driveshaft. Take
the # of turns of ONE wheel, divide it by 2 and 10 [i.e., divide it by 20]... A
3.08 [very common] ratio would give 61.6 turns of ONE wheel per 10 turns of the
driveshaft.

> Is there a way to determine what the "best" stall speed is

Been explained what it is... "best" is pretty subjective. Depends on the use.
4500 sucks for street use, 1800 makes for poor times with a rowdy cam in a race
car...
   [Bob &] I recommend a switch pitch!
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 15:38:46 -0300
Subject: Re: I forget 

>> heard that they're making a note to consult us for Oldsmobile input in
>> the future should the need arise -- hear that, Chris Witt?  :-)
>
>Hear what? :)

The next time we see an in-depth Cars & Parts paragraph on Olds engines 
suddenly interrupted with the phrase "bitchin' tech post", we'll know.  :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 16:48:59 -0300
Subject: misc.

> >Chris,
> >I got the box with the radio, spring, and relay in mail.  Thanks.  Hope the
> >hornets are going away.  I didn't see any in the box.
> >Paul Bartlett
>
> Awwwww.  Now c'mon.  I didn't get a box in the mail with all this nifty stuff
> in it!  Let's be fair here!  Maybe you don't have my correct address?  Geesh!
> Paul Hartlieb

Paul H, you failed to send a check for thousands of cents! I send packages to
just about anyone, they just have to cover the shipping & handling. That
'handling' adds right up on some parts, too!

> Any others out there that found Saab a solution for Olds yearnings?
> DTW

does it count if I move the ignition switch from the dash to the floor of my
'68 Olds? -Chris-

> but wouldnt you be able to keep the engine at a more optimal temp...by
> directly monitoring the coolant temp and using just a restrictor......that
> way the fans wouldnt be running at all times...just enough to keep it at the
> temp you want
>                         zack

I don't see how that could be better that a thermostat, which reacts to the
temp of the coolant leaving the engine. Too hot, let more [presumably...] cool
stuff in. Too cold, recirculate it back thru the block.
  the only problem arises when the incoming stuff did not get cooled much while
it was in the radiator... Or, if heat is produced faster that the radiator CAN
dump it, which is really the same scenario. -Chris-

> >Does anyone have a set of Super Stock II wheels they might want to get
> >rid of?
>
> Last year at Carlisle I saw dozens of sets (OK maybe a couple more than a
> couple of sets :-)), if you are close enough, the summer event is July 26-28.

I see 'em all the time at swap meets. Got a set of 14x6's at a yard sale for
$20, but shipping would run ya a lot. Got a set of chrome 15x7's, NOS at a yard
sale for $[too little to admit]. Look around, call around.

> From: R4C442@aol.com
> Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 09:34:41 -0300
> Subject: Re: Re[2]: NAOC Nationals
> Incidently, the first run of 65 442's had the 425.

Say WHAT?  Since when? Says who? Can you prove this? I suppose next you're
gonna tell us they all had forged cranks & solid main webs, too!
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: lacey@dsea.com (Dan Lacey)
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 18:04:23 -0300
Subject: Re: Looking for sympathy 

>          Well, I'll be off the air for the next week and a half, as
>          we are leaving for Hawaii first thing in the morming.  I
>          need sympathy for two reasons.
>
>          First, we're taking the three kids
>
>          Shoot me now.
>
>          Second, we're taking the mother-in-law
>
>          Third (our main weapon is fear...fear and surprise, our two
>          main weapons...), there will be at least 800 messages from
>          this mail list when I get back to the office (not counting
>          any goofy mail messages).  Greg, please don't delete me if
>          my mail box gets full...
>
>          Joe Padavano
>          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
>
>          66 442
>          68 W-30
>          69 H/O
>          70 W-30

If you can deal with not getting the messages for a while (do you REALLY
think it would be humanly possible to catch up!!!), just unsubscribe for
your vacation.

When you get back, subscribe again.

I have noticed that it takes about an hour or two to get back on the list...


*************************************************************************
* THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY  *       Dan Lacey ( lacey@dsea.com )        *
*                           *       Dainippon Screen Eng. of America    *
* LEFT BLANK                *       3700 W. Segerstrom Ave.             *
*                           *       Santa Ana, CA. 92704                *
*************************************************************************

------------------------------

From: lacey@dsea.com (Dan Lacey)
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 18:16:06 -0300
Subject: Re: brakes, misc. stuff 

[SNIP]

>The first thing I checked was the vacuum booster.  Sure enough, it was bad;
>diaphragm was leaking.  Bought a new one (lifetime warranty, too!) and
>tested and installed it.  When I took off the master cylinder, it was
>leaking out the back, so I replaced that, too.  Got it all back together and
>bled the brakes.  I was really looking forward to having brakes again.  Took
>the car out to test the brakes, and they weren't "power" brakes.  Had to
>literally _stand_ on the brake pedal to get the car to stop!

[SNIP]

Did you bleed the master cylinder before/during/after installation?
If it has a bleeder valve on the master cylinder; great!
If not, you have to do this the hard way!

Buy two pieces (Dual circuit brakes, right?) of tubing and the appropriate
fittings so that you can connect the fittings to the master cylinder and
run the tubing so that brake fluid flows up and into the resovoirs (sp?).

I hope this makes sense; if not, let me know!


*************************************************************************
* THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY  *       Dan Lacey ( lacey@dsea.com )        *
*                           *       Dainippon Screen Eng. of America    *
* LEFT BLANK                *       3700 W. Segerstrom Ave.             *
*                           *       Santa Ana, CA. 92704                *
*************************************************************************

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 15:29:56 -0300
Subject: Re: Looking for sympathy

> >           Well, I'll be off the air for the next week and a half, as
> >           we are leaving for Hawaii first thing in the morming.  I
> >           need sympathy for two reasons.
> > 
> >           First, we're taking the three kids
> > 
> >           
> >           Second, we're taking the mother-in-law
> > 
> >           Third (our main weapon is fear...fear and surprise, our two
> >           main weapons...), there will be at least 800 messages from
> >           this mail list when I get back 
> > 

Awww, it ain't all that bad... next month, my wife & I'll be going on vacation
on Cape Cod with: 

   The 2 y.o. twins
   The mother-in-law
   the aunt-in-law
   A childhood chum of my wife's

Like someone else responding to this thread said, this means lots o'
babysitters if'n the wife & I wanna slip out for a romanticall dinner &
night-time walk on the beach... or when I wanna go do some fishin' & golfin' :)



Tim (who took the same group on vacay last year and lived to talk about it)
 Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'88 Cadillac Brougham, a.k.a. 'Big Blue' -- Olds 307 Powered!!
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 17:39:53 -0300
Subject: Re: brakes, misc. stuff 

> From oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca Fri Jul 12 16:23 EDT 1996
> Did you bleed the master cylinder before/during/after installation?
> If it has a bleeder valve on the master cylinder; great!
> If not, you have to do this the hard way!

> 
> Buy two pieces (Dual circuit brakes, right?) of tubing and the appropriate
> fittings so that you can connect the fittings to the master cylinder and
> run the tubing so that brake fluid flows up and into the resovoirs (sp?).
> 
> I hope this makes sense; if not, let me know!

Hard way?  I though that was the easy way.

The last master cylinder I replaced (this was a while back), came
with those two pieces of tubing, and a couple of plastic fittings that
fit into the connections for the brake lines.  You screwed the fittings into
the brake line connections on the master cylinder, ran the a piece of
tubing from each fitting back into the appropriate reservoir.
Then, you pumped on the brake until the air bubbles stopped.

By having the tube in the reservoir, you suck brake fluid in, instead of 
air, when you release the brake pedal.  You don't have to worry about
opening and closing a bleed valve.

You can do this when bleeding the wheel cylinders, also.  Open the bleed valve.
Run a tube from the valve into a cup of brake fluid. (You don't want to put
old brake fluid into you can of new brake fluid.)  Pump brakes until the
air is out.  Close bleed valve.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-5450    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 17:48:34 -0300
Subject: Re: I forget 

> > I have that problem... well, had that problem... since the cable went
> > last week the speedometer just reads zero.  Someone mentioned
> > possible weak magnets in the speedometer?  I don't know how to fix it.
> > Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
> 
> Uh, replace the speedo cable? Just a guess. For RL's problem, that is.
> 

Well, I was going to weld each individual strand back to it's partner, 
then reform the covering with a heat gun... but your idea sounds like
it might be a little easier.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-5450    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: atsmith@icnet.net (Andrew Smith)
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 18:01:13 -0300
Subject: Re: 1988 Toronado Trofeo

Toronado66@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Good for you Andy!
> 
> Welcome to the Toro Club!
> 
> Sparky

well thanks.. heh.. i assume you own one yourself?

------------------------------

From: atsmith@icnet.net (Andrew Smith)
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 18:05:52 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: 1988 Toronado Trofeo

JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com wrote:
> 
> ... Both my parents, they're best friends, ...
>                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
>           Isn't it great when a married couple is also best
>           friends...OH, THEIR best friends...
>           (no, Chris Witt isn't the only smart**s on the list :))


No.. they ARE best friends.. promise, thats what i meant.

             (since when do you have to spell everything right and use 
propper grammer on the 'net? =)


>           (Well, I alway say, better to be a smart**s than a dumb**s)

 Those are the very words i live by.

 
>           (OK, OK, sorry...it's that shorttimer/vacation fever...)
> 
>           Joe Padavano
>           jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
> 
>           66 442
>           68 W-30
>           69 H/O
>           70 W-30

            Andrew Smith
            atsmith@icnet.net
            88 Toro (i think i need more cars!)

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 18:12:23 -0300
Subject: Re: Brake Line Clips 

Hey Sparky!

Year One has something that should work but are not the same as on my '67
Cutlass.  

On pages 25N-26N they show about 20 different types including the ones which
pop into a hole in the frame/body as well as the bolt on type (most of them).
 They are all single line retainers.  My Cutlass' use these and multiple line
clips so they wouldn't be original.  But better than the tywraps I agree.
 They come in silver zinc, zinc and yellow zinc platings as well.  If you
know the diameter of the tubing you wish to secure you can probably order
them without seeing - and probably get that catalog as well.

The part numbers are all preceeded by an "FX" and then a one or two digit
number.  They range in price from $1.50-$3.00 each. I guess they gotta pay
for that fancy catalog somehow.

You should be able to get their big catalog free.  I got mine within a week.
 But that was after registering at their tent at a Daytona Speedway show last
Spring.  I then received a letter offering the catalog if I just called their
800 number.  I was in the computer and it was sent out right away.  I guess
you have their number but it is 800-950-9503.  They also have a toll free fax
at 800-680-6806.

Bob Handren

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 18:14:41 -0300
Subject: Re: OCA Nationals 

In a message dated 96-07-12 09:08:13 EDT, you write:

<< I plan to be there...anyone know if there is a swap meet attached to this
show ?
 
 Frank Boerger
 '68 Cutlass convertible ( now covering at least 2 acres)
 
  >>


Of course, a big (expensive early) one.

Bob Handren

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 18:12:44 -0300
Subject: Re: NAOC Nationals 

In a message dated 96-07-11 22:25:30 EDT, you write:

<< Maybe you could tell them you're W30 is really a '50 Club coupe with
 extensive body modifications and a non-original power plant?
 
 Paul
  >>
Heh heh.  Wouldn't I have loved to have that mill in my old '56 88!  If I
still had my '56 88 it _would_ be in it.

Glad to hear they accept modifieds.  Still raises the question as to why they
choose to exclude so much equally fascinating and enjoyable iron.

Bob

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 18:14:33 -0300
Subject: Re: NAOC Nationals 

In a message dated 96-07-11 22:25:06 EDT, you write:

<< Been in OCA since '87 - wouldn't know what to do without it.  True it
ain't
 perfect, but it'd be awful boring if it was.  Always have a blast at Nats,
 can hardly wait til August
 
 Paul
  >>
Then we'll see you there!

Bob Handren

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 18:14:46 -0300
Subject: Re: MT parts info 

In a message dated 96-07-12 02:41:02 EDT, you write:

<< 1.  I noticed two different sizes of pin where the shifter rod attaches 
 to the shift lever (metal piece attached to the shift forks inside the 
 transmission).  What does this signify and what do you do if you have a 
 small pin and a large shift lever hole? Install a larger bushing or get 
 an entirely different shift lever?
  >>

Sounds like you have stock rods and aftermarket shifter rods (e.g. Hurst).
 The Hurst uses nylon or graphite impregmated bushings. These bushings should
be availabel from a speed shop or Hurst directly.

Does anyone have the phone number for Hurst?  I need a neutral start switch
for a '67 GTO Dual Gate.  Anybody have one?

Bob Handren

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 18:14:00 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: NAOC Nationals 

In a message dated 96-07-11 19:56:31 EDT, you write:

<< 
 Possibly the only way is for there to be an umbrella club that is not so 
 reactionary to either the new or the old to save some of these fine old 
 cars & clubs >>

Sure _sounds_ like to OCA.

Bob Handren

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 18:14:41 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: NAOC Nationals 

In a message dated 96-07-12 08:37:32 EDT, you write:

<< Incidently, the first run of 65 442's had the 425.
  >>


Excuse me?  Really?  Wow.  Where did you learn that.  I had an early '65 442
and it didn't have a 425 but a 400.

I'd be very interested in the source of this information.

Bob Handren

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 18:12:59 -0300
Subject: Re: Underbody color of H/O? 

In a message dated 96-07-12 05:35:32 EDT, you write:

<< Could anyone tell me the "correct" color (code) for the black that the
 underbody of a '69 H/O should be, and if it's different than the
 firewall black (GM recondition black?).
  >>

It was called "GM Chassis Black" and DuPont for one made it.  I suppose it is
still available but the problem (or maybe not) is that it is not a durable
paint. Gasoline will remove it for example and it has little rust/corrosion
protection.

Bob Handren

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 18:12:51 -0300
Subject: Re: NAOC Nationals 

In a message dated 96-07-11 22:24:29 EDT, you write:

<< NAOC seems to be strictly
 concerned with B & C body cars.
 
 Paul
  >>
 Well then, maybe they should change their name from a national Olds club to
a B&C body Olds club.  That would be honest.

Bob Handren

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 18:14:41 -0300
Subject: Re: OCA Nationals 

In a message dated 96-07-11 22:40:45 EDT, you write:

<< I see many comments about the NAOC Nationals and haven't seen anything
about the 
 OCA Nationals in Atlanta next month.  Is anybody going to Atlanta?
 
 Art Fuller >>


Oh yeah, a _lot_ of folks are going.  Look for Olds Club of Florida members,
there will be quite a few.

Bob Handren

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 18:14:26 -0300
Subject: Re: OCA Nationals 

In a message dated 96-07-12 10:31:17 EDT, you write:

<< Frank,
 Yes, there is a swap meet.  A lot of people won't come to it because it's
only 
 Oldsmobile parts.
 
 Art Fuller
  >>


I guess that would be non-Oldsmobile people.  Go figger?

Bob Handren

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 18:14:28 -0300
Subject: Re: If you promise to be nice....... 

In a message dated 96-07-12 14:28:32 EDT, you write:

<< feel that the increasing the years allowed in NAOC is very lagitimate.
 
 if you raise your points to NAOC showing their benifits by allowing more
 model years, or asking why the cut off is at 1964 in a nice polite way....
 
 (so to get things done with ease)
 
 ... NAOC e-mail address is:
 
 
 
 		naoc@cdmnet.com
  >>


Oh oh. look out now.  

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 18:15:55 -0300
Subject: 62 conv pix

SEE the '62 Cutlass convertible!

www.lut.fi/~jsavola/pixies.html
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 18:50:40 -0300
Subject: Year One catalog (was:Re: Brake Line Clips)

>>> <BobH592058@aol.com> 07/12/96 03:12pm >>>
>You should be able to get their big catalog free.  I got mine within a
>week. But that was after registering at their tent at a Daytona
>Speedway show last Spring.  I then received a letter offering the
>catalog if I just called their 800 number.  I was in the computer and it
>was sent out right away. 

I had to pay for my first catalog.  But it only took a few weeks to get
here.  Shortly after mine arrived, I called the 800 number and asked if I
could get one for my friend.  They sent it to me no charge within a couple
of weeks.  I haven't yet had a problem with Year One.  I haven't ordered
very much, but everything I have came on time.

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 18:56:10 -0300
Subject: Re: I forget

another cable or gauge might solve the problem.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 19:08:46 -0300
Subject: Re: MT parts info

Bob,
Hurst is owned by Mr. Gasket. Their phone number is(216)398-8300. I don't think 
you'll be able to buy directly from them, but they'll tell you where to go 
locally to order what you need.  Good luck, my stick isolators and stick clamp 
have been on backorder since May 2nd.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 17:24:21 -0300
Subject: Re: Temperature Gauge.... 307/4Bbl

At 12:09 AM 7/12/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Well, a thermostat is a temperature-controlled restrictor, so you already
>have your wish there. Thermostatically controlled lectric fans are also a
>good bet, but you have to remember that the drag from the fan that you free
>up by removing the engine-driven fan is replaced by the increased drag from
>the alternator, now generating electricity to run the electric fans.
>
>
>but wouldnt you be able to keep the engine at a more optimal temp...by
>directly monitoring the coolant temp and using just a restrictor......that
>way the fans wouldnt be running at all times...just enough to keep it at the
>temp you want
>                        zack

Well, my Other Car, a 1993 Mitsubishi Eclpise, uses a thermostat (195
degree) and electric fans.  The system works quite well.  The fans work
independently. One is controlled by a thermostatic switch mounted in the
bottom of the radiator (right where the coolant leaves the radiator), and
switches the fan on when coolant temp is above 160 degrees.  The other is
switched by a relay connected to the air conditioning (only comes on when
A/C is on).  The engine warms up quickly and maintains a very constant temp,
even during long periods at idle.  I have considered adapting the same type
of system to my Olds.
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 17:54:31 -0300
Subject: Re: Toronotes, incl. vac. adv. Q's

At 02:33 PM 7/12/96 -0300, you wrote:

>The 235 (in mm) is the width of the tire.  The heavier the car, and the load it
>carries, the wider the tire.  You want the weight distributed over more
>area.  I think this corresponds to the J.
>
>The 78? and the 75 are the height of the tire.
>
>Someone please tell me if I got this mixed up.
>
OK, the 235 is the width of the tire in millimeters.  The 75 (or 70, or 60,
or whatever you've got) isn't the height, it is a ratio of the height to the
width. For a 235/75R15 tire, the height would be 75% of the width, or 176.25
millimeters.  The width and height for the same size tires made my different
manufacturers will vary based on the construction of the tire, rubber
compounds used, etc.  A tire only 75 millimeters high would be pretty short.
I have 245/60R15's on my Cutlass.  Rough measurements of the tires do
correspond to this formula.
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 18:00:38 -0300
Subject: Re: brakes, misc. stuff

At 06:16 PM 7/12/96 -0300, you wrote:

>[SNIP]
>
>Did you bleed the master cylinder before/during/after installation?
>If it has a bleeder valve on the master cylinder; great!
>If not, you have to do this the hard way!
>
Yes, I did bench bleed the master cylinder before I put it on the car, then
I bled the entire system.  

Someone suggested air in the lines and that I rebleed the brakes.  Would air
in the lines cause a hard pedal?  I was under the impression that air in the
lines would make the pedal soft/brakes no work good.  That doesn't make
sense to me anyway; I replaced the rear wheel cylinders a couple months ago
and bled the system.  Everything worked fine till a couple days ago.  That's
when I replaced the booster/mstr. cylinder and bled the system.  Still no
power brakes.  Other that that, the brakes are fine.  No pulling, no funny
noises, pedal doesn't go to the floor; it just takes a massive amount of
force to get the car to stop.
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Mark Samaniego <marks@IntNet.net>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 20:07:27 -0300
Subject: Temp sender

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 16:24:48 -0300
Subject: Re: Temperature Gauge.... 307/4Bbl

In a message dated 96-07-09 23:25:19 EDT, you write:

<< Well, out of the three, two have two wires. I dont think the front one is
<< the temp sensor, like I said, it's diameter where it enters the engine
<< (about 3/8s) is too small, it must be the oil pressure sensor. 

>The oil pressure sensor is not in the intake manifold.  It is tapped into the
>engine block in front of the intake to the right of the oil filler tube
>behind the water pump.

If I implied that it was in the manifold, I apologize. The sensor I was speaking 
of is exactly as you described.  ATHanks for the info!

Mark S.
- -- 
           >> marks@intnet.net <<
** Lost In Cyberspace, Wallowing In Technology **

------------------------------

From: Bob Valentine <ravalent@liii.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 21:13:39 -0300
Subject: Re: Underbody color of H/O?

On Fri, 12 Jul 1996 BobH592058@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 96-07-12 05:35:32 EDT, you write:
> 
> << Could anyone tell me the "correct" color (code) for the black that the
>  underbody of a '69 H/O should be, and if it's different than the
>  firewall black (GM recondition black?).
>   >>
> 
> It was called "GM Chassis Black" and DuPont for one made it.  I suppose it is
> still available but the problem (or maybe not) is that it is not a durable
> paint. Gasoline will remove it for example and it has little rust/corrosion
> protection.

     True.  When I did my frame-off thing, I repainted the frame and body 
with a 50/50 mixture of RustOleum "Satin Black" and "Gloss Black".   Looks 
pretty close to what I've seen on truely restored cars at car shows.  
I was more concerned with keeping the rust monster at bay than using the 
correct shade of black.

     The stuff has been on there for over a year, and thru one of those 
infamous New York winters - no rust thru, no bubbling.   Heck, I had it 
towed and the chains from the truck barely scratched the paint.   

     How about putting this stuff UNDER the GM Chassis Black?

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                    --> ravalent@liii.com  <--
        "Experience varies directly with equipment ruined"

------------------------------

From: Bob Valentine <ravalent@liii.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 21:18:05 -0300
Subject: Re: brakes, misc. stuff

On Tue, 9 Jul 1996, Dave Paulison wrote:

> At 06:16 PM 7/12/96 -0300, you wrote:
> 
> >[SNIP]
> >
> >Did you bleed the master cylinder before/during/after installation?
> >If it has a bleeder valve on the master cylinder; great!
> >If not, you have to do this the hard way!
> >

> and bled the system.  Everything worked fine till a couple days ago.  That's
> when I replaced the booster/mstr. cylinder and bled the system.  Still no
> power brakes.  Other that that, the brakes are fine.  No pulling, no funny
> noises, pedal doesn't go to the floor; it just takes a massive amount of
> force to get the car to stop.

    Chance you got a defective booster?  It sure does sound like a classic 
bad booster.... Another thing to check would be that the depth of the 
hole in the booster for the pushrod (for the master cylinder) is the same 
depth.  

   This tripped me up on a '83 Delta 88 a few years ago, and the problem 
was the brakes stayed fully applied.   ;^)

> Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                    --> ravalent@liii.com  <--

------------------------------

From: lacey@dsea.com (Dan Lacey)
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 22:19:38 -0300
Subject: Re: brakes, misc. stuff 

>At 06:16 PM 7/12/96 -0300, you wrote:
[SNIP]

>Someone suggested air in the lines and that I rebleed the brakes.  Would air
>in the lines cause a hard pedal?  I was under the impression that air in the
>lines would make the pedal soft/brakes no work good.  That doesn't make
>sense to me anyway; I replaced the rear wheel cylinders a couple months ago
>and bled the system.  Everything worked fine till a couple days ago.

Well, if the pedal is hard, then it's probably NOT air...

That's
>when I replaced the booster/mstr. cylinder and bled the system.  Still no
>power brakes.  Other that that, the brakes are fine.  No pulling, no funny
>noises, pedal doesn't go to the floor; it just takes a massive amount of
>force to get the car to stop.
>--
>Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
>dpauliso@metrolink.net

If the pedal doesn't go to the floor (or is within spec.), then they didn't
accidentally give you the non-power master cylinder (would add about 2
inches of travel to the pedal).

I am out of ideas... Sorry :-(


*************************************************************************
* THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY  *       Dan Lacey ( lacey@dsea.com )        *
*                           *       Dainippon Screen Eng. of America    *
* LEFT BLANK                *       3700 W. Segerstrom Ave.             *
*                           *       Santa Ana, CA. 92704                *
*************************************************************************

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 21:54:21 -0300
Subject: Re: SLP Olds!?!

.  These are the same guys who make cars like the Firehawk and 
>     (I think) the new C*maro SS, and the SLP Mustang.  SLP also makes some 
>     darn good performance kits for many cars (not Olds of course.  Yet.).

SLP did a fine job with the Camaro SS. One great muscle car for the dollar,
all those aftermarket mods and still cheaper than a stock  Rustang GT. To my
knowledge there is no SLP Rustang. Saleen and Roush Racing does their
aftermarket stuff, Roush does a hell of a job on that car.  I read that
about the Aurora and am excited myself. Wonder if they can make the Aurora
V8 put out the same amount of power as the Chevy LT1? Hope so. If they do
this I hope it is on a rear drive platform...wishful thinking?  

>     I also heard a rumor that Olds is considering making another 
>     Hurst/Olds sometime very soon.  Hmm...  I hope they do it right!

Me too! I hope it isn't no front drive turbo four banger. Maybe on the
Cutlass platform, make it rear drive and put in the Aurora V8 spiced up, or
put in a new generation 455 similar to the Aurora design that gets 30mpg
with 375-450 horses???

Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com)
1988 Camaro IROC-Z/28 5.0 bowtie power  
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25 5.7 rocket power     
HOCA member #0278A...in need of 75 H/O and 442 parts!

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 22:00:50 -0300
Subject: Re: SLP Olds!?!

>>> Hello tom, speaking of these types of cars i recently drove a 96'
>>>SVT cobra mustang and i must say it really cooked!! I had'nt heard
>>>that rumor about the hurst but on what platform would they build one?
>>>Happy oldsmobiling!!!

The SVT is handled in-house by Ford I think. That is a nice car. Still falls
short performance wise to a stock 96 Z/28. Olds needs a car to hang with the
likes of these big boys. It would be nice to pull up to a stoplight and
leave a Z/28 in the dust with an SLP Aurora in disguise......!

Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com)
1988 Camaro IROC-Z/28 5.0 bowtie power  
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25 5.7 rocket power     
HOCA member #0278A...in need of 75 H/O and 442 parts!

------------------------------

From: "Peg O'Connor" <peg@grove.ufl.EDU>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 23:01:24 -0300
Subject: Re: OCA Nationals

> Oh yeah, a _lot_ of folks are going.  Look for Olds Club of Florida members,
> there will be quite a few.

And hopefully we'll be able to get a caravan together so we can arrive in 
style!

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 23:19:55 -0300
Subject: Re: Brake Line Clips 

In a message dated 96-07-12 17:18:01 EDT, BobH592058@aol.com writes:

>The part numbers are all preceeded by an "FX" and then a one or two digit
>number.  They range in price from $1.50-$3.00 each. I guess they gotta pay
>for that fancy catalog somehow.
>
>

Thanks Bob. I will call them yet again for their catalog.

Sparky

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 23:22:18 -0300
Subject: Re: Year One catalog (was:Re: Brake Line Clips) 

In a message dated 96-07-12 17:54:33 EDT, BLAINES@strata3d.com (Blaine
Sanders 5483) writes:

>I had to pay for my first catalog.  But it only took a few weeks to get
>here.  Shortly after mine arrived, I called the 800 number and asked if I
>could get one for my friend.  They sent it to me no charge within a couple
>of weeks.  I haven't yet had a problem with Year One.  I haven't ordered
>very much, but everything I have came on time.
>
>

Thanks Blaine

Sparky

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 23:22:13 -0300
Subject: Re: brakes, misc. stuff 

In a message dated 96-07-12 18:47:15 EDT, dpauliso@metrolink.net (Dave
Paulison) writes:

>Someone suggested air in the lines and that I rebleed the brakes.  Would air
>in the lines cause a hard pedal?  I was under the impression that air in the
>lines would make the pedal soft/brakes no work good.  That doesn't make
>sense to me anyway; I replaced the rear wheel cylinders a couple months ago
>and bled the system. 

Dave,

You may be right about the air. After further thought I guess it does sound
more like a bad booster but, I wouldn't bet the ranch just yet. It could be
some crap in the line(s), a stuck or dirty proportioning valve, or any other
wierd possibility or combination of things. Including poor vacuum supply for
wahtever reason.

Sparky

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 23:21:44 -0300
Subject: Re: Toronotes, incl. vac. adv. Q's 

In a message dated 96-07-12 18:41:44 EDT, you write:

>OK, the 235 is the width of the tire in millimeters.  The 75 (or 70, or 60,
>or whatever you've got) isn't the height, it is a ratio of the height to the
>width. For a 235/75R15 tire, the height would be 75% of the width, or 176.25
>millimeters.  The width and height for the same size tires made my different
>manufacturers will vary based on the construction of the tire, rubber
>compounds used, etc.  A tire only 75 millimeters high would be pretty short.
>I have 245/60R15's on my Cutlass.  Rough measurements of the tires do
>correspond to this formula.
>--

Thanks Dave!  What a guy!  WE LOVE YA MAN!

Sparky

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 23:21:47 -0300
Subject: Re: Brake Line Clips 

In a message dated 96-07-12 06:35:50 EDT, ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca (Greg Beaulieu)
writes:

>Neither my Year One nor Fusick catalogs list these. But Bob's Auto Parts 
>has #8P9500 at $1.50 each. It's an old catalog though. 800-992-2006.
>
>Have you tried a GM dealer? Part group #4.686, several types listed.
>
>Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
>
>

Thanks Greg! I will check it out.

Sparky

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 23:21:40 -0300
Subject: Re: 1988 Toronado Trofeo 

In a message dated 96-07-12 17:11:25 EDT, atsmith@icnet.net (Andrew Smith)
writes:

>well thanks.. heh.. i assume you own one yourself?
>
>

Andy,

Why yes I do!   Heres the fleet:

1934 Olds 4 Door Straight 8 with Sidemounts
1967 Toronado (18K original.....stored...never shown or driven)
1967 Toronado Deluxe (110 K winter driver)
1966 Toronado Deluxe (61K California car...for show and pleasure driving
only)
1966 Torobado (104K daily summer driver and all around cruiser...The Flamming
                       Dubonette)
1966 Toronado (350K parts car sitting in driveway halfway through the
ashpalt)

Currently working on yet another aquisition....a nice white 66 with
55K...give me a little time, I will get it!

Sparky

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 23:22:13 -0300
Subject: Re: Toronotes, incl. vac. adv. Q's 

In a message dated 96-07-12 13:42:49 EDT, lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert
Lawrence) writes:

>So... the width does not affect the speedometer reading.  The wheel size
>and height do affect the speedometer reading.  I believe that performance
>tires tend to be shorter and wider (60's and 70's, instead of 75's).
>
>Thus, they may give you a HIGHER speedometer reading.
>
>

Robert,

I agree with your reasoning. Its easy to get mixed up between 50, 60, 70
series tires vs. J, L, N, sizes tires.....just how do they correspond to each
other? 

I'm from the old school, and am still used to the nomenclature of J-78
15...where the higher the letter (say L), the bigger the diameter of the
tires. The 78 number would refer to the width..right?

Anyway I believe youre right with J-78 15 = P235 75R15.......darn metric
crap!

Sparky

------------------------------

From: "Dink" <dink@infinet.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 00:28:32 -0300
Subject: Re: SLP Olds!?!

> >      I just read in the latest Car Craft that there's a rumor that SLP will
> >      be "making over" the Aurora or possibly the Bravada as their next
> >      project.  These are the same guys who make cars like the Firehawk and
> >      (I think) the new C*maro SS, and the SLP Mustang.  SLP also makes some
> >      darn good performance kits for many cars (not Olds of course.  Yet.).

Actually, SLP doesn't make a Ford (thank god) they are only GM buffs. 
 And yes they do the Firehawk's, Camaro SS and the WS6 Pontiac's.  
These new f-bods and really nice that SLP is modifying,lets hope they 
do the same with the OLDS!!

Dink
____________________________________________
Dink     Brunswick, Ohio
80 Olds Delta 88 Royale MSD, K&N, Dynomax, Etc
95 Formula 6M, 1SC, T's, Hurst, !Cags
Dink@infinet.com   http://www.infinet.com/~dink
- --------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: "Dink" <dink@infinet.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 00:47:35 -0300
Subject: Olds @ Norwalk Again

Ok,
  So how many people are going?   Do you guys wanna meet somewhere, 
or not really?  I'll be there at 8 or so in the morning. Look for the 
80 Delta 88 with rally's, I plan on doing losts of TT, but not really 
racing.


Later,
   Dink

____________________________________________
Dink     Brunswick, Ohio
80 Olds Delta 88 Royale MSD, K&N, Dynomax, Etc
95 Formula 6M, 1SC, T's, Hurst, !Cags
Dink@infinet.com   http://www.infinet.com/~dink
- --------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 23:48:59 -0300
Subject: Tire size vs spedo reading..was Re: Toronotes, incl. vac. adv. Q's

> >So... the width does not affect the speedometer reading.  The wheel size
> >and height do affect the speedometer reading.  I believe that performance
> >tires tend to be shorter and wider (60's and 70's, instead of 75's).
> >
> >Thus, they may give you a HIGHER speedometer reading.

> Robert,
> 
> I agree with your reasoning. Its easy to get mixed up between 50, 60, 70
> series tires vs. J, L, N, sizes tires.....just how do they correspond to each
> other? 
> 
	*snip*

	Just as a side note, I have a table of tire sizes in mm for rim 
sizes 13 through 17 and widths of something like 135 through 350 
something and aspect ratios of 40 through 80.  What the chart allows you 
to do, is find the original tire size for the car, get the diameter, and 
find a tire and rim size combo  that approximate the original, so your spedo 
will read correctly without changing drive gears!  Cool huh.  

	So say, if you start out with 195-75R14s, you could find 
something like 305-45ZR17s or something that would keep your spedo 
calibration correct!  (keeping your wheel wells correct would be another 
matter!)  Of course, while the numbers should be calculated to be exact, 
in practice they would be only approximate, since as someone else noted 
before, things will vary from one maker to another, etc etc.  As soon as 
I get time, I'll type the thing up, and send it to the list...
it'll take a while though...it's like three pages long.  Maybe something 
to add to Brycemans web page...  

			Scott
		1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 00:25:15 -0300
Subject: Alum. intakes and steel intake gaskets 

I'm in need of a bit of help with some "literary interpretation"...

Mondello's Tech Guide states the following: 

"When installing an aluminum intake manifold, *never* use stock steel
manifold gaskets. (emphasis mine) They will leak and cause the manifold to
warp. . . The Edelbrock 3711 or 2151 manifolds were made for stock steel OEM
gaskets."

So, is the *never* in the first sentence qualified by this statement about
the 3711? See, I'm using a 3711 on my 403 rebuild, and am just about to put
the intake on with the manifold supplied by PST, which happens to be a
Fel-Pro steel valley-pan intake gasket.

Any experience on what works here and what doesn't? If I use the stock-type
steel unit, which sealer works best? I've heard RTV around the water
passages, and the spray-type copper gasket stuff for the intake passages.

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 00:25:11 -0300
Subject: Re: Guvn'r fixed; now, onto adjusting my 403's valvetrain 

At 03:09 PM 7/11/96 -0400, you wrote:
>In a message dated 96-07-11 00:05:03 EDT, you write:
>
><< The other option, of course, is to go with longer pushrods (+.050" or
> +.100"), which sticks closer to the stock geometry. I'd like to not give JM
> any more of my money, especially if there won't be any benefit. >>
>
>This months (August) Popular Hot Rodding, page 7 has an ad for CompCams,
>(901)795-2400.  They have pushrods available in 0.025"-0.050" increments
>depending on diameter and length.  Probably a bunch cheaper than Joe M.

Thanks for the pointer, Bob; it looks like this will be the way I go. All I
need to find is a 5/16" pushrod 8.300" (stock 8.250" + .050") long, and some
shims for the rockers that already have 0 lash. Any good sources for these
shims? I assume that I won't find durable-enough washers of the proper
thickness to serve as shims.

BTW, as I peruse the Mondello catalog, I see that he sells an "new" low-buck
adjustable steel rocker arm pivot kit (RP-295), where the pivots are not
part of a single aluminum bridge, but rather individual units connected by a
steel strap...  Hey, that's what PST sent me with their engine kit! Boy,
here I thought I was just getting some cheaper system, when in fact I'm
getting the best stock-type rocker system available! All I need are the
shims, and I'm up $84.00 over going with Mondello. 

I'm liking that PST kit better all the time...

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 19:38:36 -0300
Subject: Re: 1988 Toronado Trofeo

Toronado66@aol.com wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Why yes I do!   Heres the fleet:
> 
> 1934 Olds 4 Door Straight 8 with Sidemounts
> 1967 Toronado (18K original.....stored...never shown or driven)
> 1967 Toronado Deluxe (110 K winter driver)
> 1966 Toronado Deluxe (61K California car...for show and pleasure driving
> only)
> 1966 Torobado (104K daily summer driver and all around cruiser...The Flamming
>                        Dubonette)
> 1966 Toronado (350K parts car sitting in driveway halfway through the
> ashpalt)
> 
> Currently working on yet another aquisition....a nice white 66 with
> 55K...give me a little time, I will get it!
> 
> Sparky

That is a nice list.  I like it all even though the Toronado thing 
sounds a little redundant.  Here's hoping that you don't get 'burned up' 
if you don't get it.

- -- 
SLTG

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 19:43:58 -0300
Subject: Re: brakes, misc. stuff

(Dave
> Paulison) writes:
> 
> >Someone suggested air in the lines and that I rebleed the brakes.  Would air
> >in the lines cause a hard pedal?  I was under the impression that air in the
> >lines would make the pedal soft/brakes no work good.  That doesn't make
> >sense to me anyway; I replaced the rear wheel cylinders a couple months ago
> >and bled the system.
> 
> Dave,
> 
> You may be right about the air. After further thought I guess it does sound
> more like a bad booster but, I wouldn't bet the ranch just yet. It could be
> some crap in the line(s), a stuck or dirty proportioning valve, or any other
> wierd possibility or combination of things. Including poor vacuum supply for
> wahtever reason.
> 
> Sparky

I'll go along with that.  Never assume.  I remember my chemistry 
instructor saying. "Never assume.  It makes an ASS out of U & ME."  
Never was sure what he meant, but he always said it.
- -- 
SLTG

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 19:47:03 -0300
Subject: Re: Tire size vs spedo reading..was Re: Toronotes, incl. vac. adv. Q's

> 
>         Just as a side note, I have a table of tire sizes in mm for rim
> sizes 13 through 17 and widths of something like 135 through 350
> something and aspect ratios of 40 through 80.  What the chart allows you
> to do, is find the original tire size for the car, get the diameter, and
> find a tire and rim size combo  that approximate the original, so your spedo
> will read correctly without changing drive gears!  Cool huh.
> 
>         So say, if you start out with 195-75R14s, you could find
> something like 305-45ZR17s or something that would keep your spedo
> calibration correct!  (keeping your wheel wells correct would be another
> matter!)   As soon as
> I get time, I'll type the thing up, and send it to the list...
> it'll take a while though...it's like three pages long.  Maybe something
> to add to Brycemans web page...
> 
>                         Scott
>                 Good.  I could use information like that.  Thanks in advance for the 
effort & the thought.
- -- 
SLTG

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 19:55:03 -0300
Subject: Re: Alum. intakes and steel intake gaskets

Robert J. Barry wrote:
> 
>  Mondello's Tech Guide states the following:
> 
> "When installing an aluminum intake manifold, *never* use stock steel
> manifold gaskets. (emphasis mine) They will leak and cause the manifold to
> warp. . . The Edelbrock 3711 or 2151 manifolds were made for stock steel OEM
> gaskets."
> 
> So, is the *never* in the first sentence qualified by this statement about
> the 3711? See, I'm using a 3711 on my 403 rebuild, and am just about to put
> the intake on with the manifold supplied by PST, which happens to be a
> Fel-Pro steel valley-pan intake gasket.
> 
> Any experience on what works here and what doesn't? If I use the stock-type
> steel unit, which sealer works best? I've heard RTV around the water
> passages, and the spray-type copper gasket stuff for the intake passages.
> 
> -----------
> - Bob Barry
>Bob:

This sounds right to me.  When I put an aluminum Edlebrock on my 1973 
455, that's the way I did it & never had a bit of trouble for 16 years. 
 This is including removing the intake once, using the same valley pan, 
& just resealing it. 
- -- 
SLTG

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 00:58:22 -0300
Subject: Re: brakes, misc. stuff -Reply 

At 06:57 PM 7/11/96 -0400, you wrote:
><snip>
>          Start the engine.  Put the car in drive.  Plant your left 
[snip of test procedure]
>Wouldn't doing this put a lot of unnecessary stress on your driveline
>components?  I used to do that back before I got my brakes rebuilt, but
>that was only because my rear brakes were virtually non-functional and
>my tires started spinning as soon as I hit the gas.  It was pretty
>impressive, too...  I could hold my left foot firmly on the brake while
>moderately pressing  the gas.  As my tires began to spin, I'd let off
[snip of excessively fun, non-test procedure]

With a 455 and front-discs, that works well even if your back brakes are in
good shape. Once spinning, the 2.56 gears in my SX would get some great tire
speed in such a brake torque, and could completely engulf the car in white
M/T G60 smoke. This was real fun back in high-school...

Ah, but back to the original question: checking stall speed should only take
a few seconds, and as long as you don't do it daily, you won't likely
overstress your car's mechanical bits.

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 01:51:01 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds @ Norwalk Again 

Dink,  I'm going with a group of nine guys.  We are leaving Southgate MI at 
10:30AM and arrive about 1:00PM.  I am staying at the Home Stead Inn
(HOJO) and some of the other guys are staying at the Econo lodge.
I have decided to show my car and participate in the King of the Hill.

I will be looking for you in your olds 88 royal blue convert.  Be glad to
talk 
about olds and the net.  I have the 72 W-30  and for a gas, I today just
finished 
putting the fininshing touches after 24 months of work.

see ya their and anybody else.  I will be wearing the 6th annual Mondello
shirt
(last years shirt,  just look for a fat blonde hair guy.

 

72 442 W-30 Race Rocket
(W MACHINES)
MARK PRINCE
470 HP 523LBS TORQUE

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 01:56:29 -0300
Subject: More on my 403...(etc...) 

Haven't been to active on the list lately, but I have been reading my mail.
 I have been working my tail off trying to get my 403 back together.  Here is
some info that might be of interest to you....

Some background info:  After discovering that the bearings in my 403 were in
poor shape after 15000 miles, I decided to rebuild it.  It seems the previous
machine shop had done some very poor work on the crank, etc ( another
story...)

So I went overboard, and wound up spending big bucks.... (but well worth it)
As for the cam, I am using a JM 20-22 with a Cloyes true roller timing chain.
When I went to degree, it was 2 deg advanced. (Actually 2 deg on the intake
and 1 deg on the exhaust according to the Engle cam card).  Not too bad for
lining up the marks on the chain, but I was prepared an had the offset
bushing kit.  

Since I changed the cam, now I had to use the 350 7a heads I aquired
recently.  So I put the 2" intakes in it and kept the 1.625 exh.  It works
out pretty well because the 4A heads are 2.00" int and 1.50" exh while the 7a
heads are 1.875" int and 1.625" exh.  So you also get a bigger exh valve.  I
used the intake valves from my 4A heads with a 45 deg seat and the exhaust
valves from a set of J heads with a 30 deg seat.  I did some very mild port
work on the intakes to blend the bigger valves in and took out the sharp
edges in the exaust ports.  Since I am lucky enough to work with a
professional engine builder, he let me work on the heads at his home shop and
use his flow bench.  The bigger intake valves helped alot at low lift and
balanced out at high lift (.600). (I just changed the valve size and not the
actual shape of the port).  As for the exhaust, I picked up 10 or so cfm just
by removing the sharp edges.  

And since I used bigger valves, it is hard to get the correct geometry of the
valve train back, so I bought a set of Harland Sharp roller rockers (from
Summit).  They came with no instructions, so I called them and they were
useless!  So much for $217 rockers...
So I went with Mondellos instructions and milled the pads .110" (the
thickness of the guideplates)  I drilled the holes out to 3/8 " for the studs
and tapped them with 7/16" x 14 (for BBC studs from ARP)  I also reduced the
height of the valve guides to .7" for the cam lift (over .500").   I then
turned down the OD of the valve guides to .530 for the teflon oil seals.
 BTW, the seals from Mondello were very poor quality, and I wasn't happy with
then at all.  So much for $20.  

As for mounting the heads on the 403, I drilled out the mounting holes to
27/64" as spec'd by Joe in his book.  One of the outer holes punched into the
return oil hole.  (I did this on a milling machine for accuracy).  Not a big
deal, but it should be noted.  One of the dowel pins had to be enlarged to to
5/16".  (One was 5/16" the other was smaller...). After this work, they fit
with no problem.

After I got the heads on the engine, I had to check the length of the pushrod
to get the correct roller rocker geometry.  It is VERY hard to get the right
geometry as spec'd by Joe in his tech book.  I'm not to happy with this
all... but it works.  

I just started the engine yesterday and it seems to run fine with the
exception of a stuck closed thermostat (which I fixed tonight...)   More to
follow on how it runs...


So time for some observations...

Both Mondello and Dick Miller are hard to work with.   Sometimes they are OK,
but usually difficult (nothing new...)

As for Joe's tech book:  I like the book, but were the hell does it reference
7a (small cap  A) heads???  It seems to me like WE talk about those quite a
bit and Joe himself filled me in about the induction hardened seats.  So were
is the small cap A in his chart????
So much for 5 years and 5000 man hours of work Joe...

I made a mistake and ordered the wrong length pushrod from Mondello (Dick
Miller was out of them and I live in PA).  So it cost $30 to next day air
them (I was anxious...)  So guess what, no credit card credit, only store
credit!  What bull...  They wanted the old ones before they would send out
the new ones (another $60 in shipping to have them for the weekend)
 Great...so I ordered them from a local speed shop and suffered with the
store credit (which I'm sure I'll use in the future...)  Oh well... hopefully
somebody will have gotten something from all of this...

Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 01:57:08 -0300
Subject: G-body gauges... 

If anybody has received my spec's on installing factory gauges in a 78-87
Cutlass, please drop me a line to let me know it you got them and what you
think.  If I forgot anybody (by accident), PLEASE let me kno and I will send
it right out.

BTW, if anybody else is interested in the above mentioned spec's, I have a
few left stamped and sealed, so send me your regular address and I'll send
you a copy...

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 02:09:07 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds @ Norwalk Again 

sorry Dink,  you have a 80 delta 88.  Aaron has a 72 delta 88.  I plan to set
up 
Saturday at the track, so when you get their Sunday, I will probaby already 
be inside.  We are going to the track Sat night to watch racing and a few of 
guys in the group will be racing.  But i will look out for you and 
Aaron.



72 442 W-30 race rocket

------------------------------

From: Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 11:41:20 -0300
Subject: Re: I forget

Chris Witt writes:
>VERY funny, Joe! If you would care to look at *the* technical reference 
>manual,
>Mr. Mondello's, in the cam bank angle chart, you'll see that he lists the
>  "425, except Toronado" engine for *1965*.


I got a laugh from page 50 just above the "Carburetion" section. The last 
sentence reads, "These points are good to 7000 plus/minus rpm without 
floating."

A Olds engine at negative 7000 rpm would be fun to see... ;-)


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Michael R. Hall                                  Ortonville, Michigan
E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com                   OCA #17903
The Oldsmobile Stable:    
     1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
     1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...
         Brought to you by a Apple Power Macintosh 7100/80
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #236
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