
oldsmobile-digest           Friday, 28 June 1996        Volume 01 : Number 216


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 05:15:47 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Box stock 442 went 11.72

     Hmm...  maybe radial tires account for some of that?

______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: Re: Box stock 442 went 11.72
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET Date:    6/26/96 6:45 PM


I've watched pure stock cars go much faster than when new for years.  The air
must just be thinner than when the car was new, or maybe it's just the new
waxes

or paint that reduces wind resistance.  Open it up, its not stock.


------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 12:51:57 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Box stock 442 went 11.72

>> I've watched pure stock cars go much faster than when new for years.
>> The air must just be thinner than when the car was new, or maybe it's
>> just the new waxes or paint that reduces wind resistance.
>
> Hmm...  maybe radial tires account for some of that?

Car & Driver often says that times decrease when they retest their long
term test cars after 30K or 35K miles have elapsed. Maybe a little bit
of breakin occurs over time to loosen things up just enough.

OTOH, a lot of those early '70's cars were just plain fast by comparison
with later ones anyhow. My wife used to have a '72 Skylark Sun Coupe
(extra points if you remember what a Sun Coupe was) with a 350-2V in it,
and good grief, that thing _moved_.

It also had factory horns that could blow the paint off a Datsun.  :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 15:23:34 -0300
Subject: Re: Speedo Gears -- How?  Where?

Stuff like this is going into the FAQ, soon.  Anyways, here is an old post
from Tom Millard.  Tom, could you help this guy out, and, sorry if I
forgot, but did you finish the program and/or the steps involved in
figuring out what speedo gear is needed?  I'll put what you post into the
FAQ.  Thanks.

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    "Oldsmobile - powerful roadsters with big V8s"
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu

- -----
first of all, the cruise should have no effect on you speedometer
reading.  The cruise unit, either factory or aftermarket, is just a
transducer that lets the the vacuum module (on the throttle linkage) either
increase or decrease the throttle.  This keeps the speedometer cable
spinning as fast as it was originally set.  Ok, hopefully I explained that
so you can understand it.. on to the tranny..

If you let me know your rear tire size, rear axle ratio, drive and driven
gears (inside the tranny), and if there is an adapter present, I'll try to
set you up with some correct gears.  This also goes for anybody else who
would like to try to calibrate there speedo (hopefully I will be able to
finish the program soon and you guys can try it out)

Like I said, any questions, drop me a line...    Tom Millard
OLDSPWR@aol.com
- ----------------

The day I bought Big Red, the previous owner told me that the speedometer
read "a little on the high side", ever since he swapped out the 2-speed
Hydramatic and put in the TH350 (attached to the 350) from a '73 Cutlass.

Does anyone out here in "Oldsmo-phile Land" know:
How:   Do I determine the *right* gear to use?

Tim Churchill

------------------------------

From: Shawn Twomey <stwom@ctp.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 14:10:47 -0300
Subject: THM200-4R gear ratios

>I would get a rebuilt one as long as it was a professional one. The gearing
>on these tranny's are incredible. Much better that a TH-350.

FYI:  the actual gear ratios for the THM200-4R (used on all '83/'84 H/Os
and '85-'87 442s) are:

I  2.74
II  1.57
III  1.00
IV  .67            [source:  '84 Hurst/Olds promo]

That first gear ratio combined with the 3.73 rear end makes for quite a
quick final drive ratio.  Sorry, I don't know the ratios for the 350.

BTW:  this is my first post from new mail client software (MS Exchange).
 Could someone please let me know if my signature is screwed up or
anything?


______________________________________________
Shawn M. Twomey  |  "No!  Try not!  Do, or do
stwom@ctp.com    |   not.  There is no try."
                 |   -Yoda
______________________________________________


------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 15:01:53 -0300
Subject: RE: Re[2]: Box stock 442 went 11.72

     Hmm...  maybe radial tires account for some of that?


Not in this case Tom, this car was on slicks.

Chris Urban

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 15:08:55 -0300
Subject: RE: Re[2]: Box stock 442 went 11.72

One thing I would like to add is that maybe when I said this car was =
stock there were a few people that took that literally. Although the car =
was built with the same components that a stock Cutlass would be this =
car was optimized for racing. Careful attention was paid to the =
blueprinting of this engine and the cars setup for the track. This car =
is very close to a dealer bought Cutlass but it is different. A BONE =
STOCK Cutlass even with slicks would not be as fast but it does have the =
capability.

- ----------
From: 	Andrew C. Green[SMTP:acg@frame.com]
Sent: 	Thursday, June 27, 1996 11:51 AM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Re: Re[2]: Box stock 442 went 11.72

>> I've watched pure stock cars go much faster than when new for years.
>> The air must just be thinner than when the car was new, or maybe it's
>> just the new waxes or paint that reduces wind resistance.
>    =20
> Hmm...  maybe radial tires account for some of that?

Car & Driver often says that times decrease when they retest their long
term test cars after 30K or 35K miles have elapsed. Maybe a little bit
of breakin occurs over time to loosen things up just enough.

OTOH, a lot of those early '70's cars were just plain fast by comparison
with later ones anyhow. My wife used to have a '72 Skylark Sun Coupe
(extra points if you remember what a Sun Coupe was) with a 350-2V in it,
and good grief, that thing _moved_.

It also had factory horns that could blow the paint off a Datsun.  :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 16:07:56 -0300
Subject: Thurs. stuffs

> 2) Physically mounting the gauges in each other's original location. You'll
> have to do a little metal bending, I'd guess. One way or another you ought
> to be able to brute-force a fit. You get a little leeway for bending up the
> edges without making that visible through the openings in the light mask.

Don't forget silicone/ hot glue/ JBWeld!

> unsubscribe oldsmobile Chip <chip@in-motion.net>
> Sorry to much traffic for me at this time.

that's what digest is for: 1 BIG message per day.

>      a junkyard to try it on (A pull-your-own-part type junkyard just
                                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
doesn't that cause blindness or something? ;-)

>      What ~were~ they thinking (smoking?) when the GM engineers arranged
                        drinking?

> And those test drives must have been interesting... chugging down the
> street sideways, held about four feet in the air by a forklift...  :-)

Makes parking a breeze though!

> '03 Oldsmobile,

pretty soon, we're gonna have to specify the century of an '03 car!

> 1955 Oldsmobile Super 88 Convert. A 20,000 original mile example. Perfect
> original interior. New black paint and top. $39,500.

That reminds me, that $43,000 72 W30 is STILL available... and I keep blowing
my $ on lamo ordinary Police 455's... heh. -Chris-

> Have an interesting development on my 69 442. With the car off (didn't try
it > with the car running) and the key on, the blinkers quit blinking when the 
>
headlights are turned on. They work fine by themselves or with the brakelight >
on. Any ideas?   Pat Clark

These electrical problems all seem to boil down to one of two or 3 things:
- -Bad ground somewhere, or
- -Overly large electron caught in the circuit.
- -The smoke that powers all things electrical was released from 1 or more
compunents...   -Chris-

> around and the same heads on both sides!  Good thing five of the six bolts
> worked after flipping the flexplate over.  This guy couldn't live too close
> to the edge afterall!

Frankly, it's amazing he used an OLDS flexplate, rather than a Ch*vy...

> Loved those definitions and, Tim, loved the "mint" story.  I bet that car
> will be "mint" for a long time.

Yeah, and here's another definition:
  "Rebuilt the motor"
- --Painted it with whatever GM blue was handy at Auto World. Right over the
grease deposits. -Chris-

> > I am having a problem with my power windows - they take quite a while
> > to close (over a minute sometimes :-(  ).
> > Thanks for the help. Mike
> > '91 W-40 Quad442

Is that Power Windows 95? Pentium chip?  :-)

> From: Ken <rottin@en.com>
> Subject: Block ID
> I'm trying to ID the engine in my 67 442.  I cant find any stamp on the oil
fi

> tube.  The numbers cast into the block are 389244-D.  The heads are "C"
castin

> Is this enuff info to determin if the engine is the original?

No # on the oil fill tube... cuz that practice did not start until the next
generation- 1968 engines... with twist-on oil fill caps.
  The bad news is: that's not a correct original 442 400 engine, which would
have been casting letter "E" on the block with "C" heads.
  The good news is: that IS a 425 engine, which is essentially an E-400 with
the

bore of a 455! More power, more tork, the engine the factory WOULD have put in
there had they been allowed, IMHO. Forged crank. Best heads. Points off at
show time for incorrect casting/ engine... big deal. Unless it's nothing BUT a
show car. In fact, one can put the innards of a 455 in that D block and have a
455 in 425's clothing.
   You should be able to further identify your engine by a stamped in code on
the front of the RH head, on the machined pad. The prefix & suffix letters
surrounding the numbers tell all... Other tips, too. Email me for more...

> And, has anyone out there tried the "493cid olds/buick stroker combo"?  Was
it

> all that and more? :)

Not many have the budget for that kind of toy... or care to have a
non-streetable race-only car. -Chris-

> From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
> Subject: Box stock 442 went 11.72
>      I mentioned a couple months ago about a stock class drag car I put =
> together for a customer. This car has gone 11.72 at 112 mph with =
> virtually all stock components.  I personally can not believe that a =
> stock Olds could be coaxed to this sort of level. The first time down =
> the strip all our jaws dropped. Just thought I'd mention this for anyone =
> that may be interested.

Hmmm... interesting. No suspension modifications? What year body? Heads
weren't shaved just a bit, plain old 15cc pistons, stock stroke, 2.072/1.710
valves? Headers allowed, I presume, even though that's not 'stock'... -Chris-

> The unofficial answer is you use a smaller socket and a bigger hammer.
> Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431

This actually works quite well with xst bolts that have rusted to somewhere
between 9/16" and 1/2"... pound a metric socket on there [6-point of course]
and proceed to break the socket or the bolt off... the hammering helps break
the rust bond, too. -Chris-

> FREDS PHOTO & VIDEO REPAIR (OWNER / ELETRONIC TECH).
>
> 1980 OLDS CUTLASS POWERED BY A BUICK TURBO V-6
> LEBANON VALLEY HEAVY 227.
>
> " BUT OFFICER, IT ONLY A SIX CLYLINDER."
>
>  486DX(120mhz)
> gods speed , fred

FRED, BABE, KILL THE ALL-CAPS, EH? Try to keep the sig files down to oh I
dunno 5 lines or so... Thanks. Chris

> The ground that was causing all of my difficulties was the exact same one
> that caused the symptoms the FIRST time I encountered them.  Imagine that.

It has been my experience that, more often than not, the cause of "new"
problems

is the last thing that was "fixed". -Chris-

> strap was still attached, but didn't make sure it was actually grounding
> properly.  It wasn't.  Pulled it off the firewall, scraped all the crud off
> it, then sanded that area of the firewall real good-removing all goop and
> paint and what not.  Re-attached, and voila.

See, you got that big electron out of the connection at the firewall. You DID
shake out the wire, right? :-)

> part!  Anyway, I dismanteled (dismembered?) the thing, and found that the
> thing that raises and lowers the mast was missing.  Not just broken, but
> completly missing.  Weird.  It looks like the thing that did the

Wound around the spool in the motor part? broke off in the antenna?

> I've watched pure stock cars go much faster than when new for years.  The
air > must just be thinner than when the car was new, or maybe it's just the
new wax

> or paint that reduces wind resistance.  Open it up, its not stock.

Well, you know, Splitfires, K&N air filter, lots of window decals @ about 5HP
each.... it adds up. I hear a short-stoke crank works wonders, too, leaves
more room in there for fuel/air mixture! Yeah, that's the ticket!

> How:   Do I determine the *right* gear to use?
> Where: I can get such a gear?
> Book Titles/Knowledge & Parts Sources Greatly appreciated!

I have seen in the Chassis Service Manuals, charts detailing exactly what
gears and/or reducers are required for a given axle ratio, tire size, etc.
  Get these gears at oh, a Dealer, a trans shop, NAPA parts store, etc.
-Chris-

> Chris, my interest is really piqued by that comment you made about the 330.
> D'you think it's possible that the owner might find a way to transport it
> back east?  It sounds like a better way to go thatn to rebuild the basket
330 > I have... plus, I can use the extras I've been collecting for it (a new >
Edelbrock Performer 350 manifold, f'r instance)....   Tim Churchill

Well, haven't contacted the engine owner yet [wish he'd come get his 350 outta
my garage though!], but my brother says that he probably would NOT be
interested in transporting it at this time.

> Automotive engineers should be forced to work in a service department for
> a mimimum of two years before they're allowed to design anything!

Hear, hear! I see so many folks get an engineering degree w/o ever setting
foot in an actual shop... pitiful. Explains a lot. -Chris-

> I have got another Stupid Question (tm). How can you tell (by inspection)
when > Bosch Platinum Plugs are worn? Its easy to tell on a standard plug, but
these > look entirely different. I have a set that were in when I bought the
car and > I have no idea how many miles are on them (the truck itself has
83K). Any idea >                  Pat Clark

I'd look for a rounded side-electrode part where the spark hits it.
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: Rod Rickenbach <rod@hopi.dtcc.edu>
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 15:46:39 -0300
Subject: RE: Re[2]: Box stock 442 went 11.72

On Thu, 27 Jun 1996, Chris Urban wrote:

> One thing I would like to add is that maybe when I said this car was stock
> there were a few people that took that literally. Although the car was
> built with the same components that a stock Cutlass would be this car
> was optimized for racing. Careful attention was paid to the blueprinting
> of this engine and the cars setup for the track. This car is very close
> to a dealer bought Cutlass but it is different. A BONE STOCK Cutlass
> even with slicks would not be as fast but it does have the capability.

I still find it a bit hard to believe - especially when I was at
Englishtown for Olds day 2 years ago, and saw a Dick Miller prepped '69
HO with a radical roller cam, ported intake, heads, etc, 4.56 gears turn
11.90's and they were elated...  Granted, this HO weighed 200 lbs more,
but the difference is not that radical.

Perhaps a FULL list of all deviations from stock would convince me. :)
(Forged 13.5:1 superlight pistons, completely reworked intake manifold,
fully ported heads that were then glass beaded to look like untouched
castings, etc. ;)

I just can't believe that the Olds heads w/ a 3angle valve job would
"flow enough" to turn these numbers...

- -Doubting Rod
-
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
    Rod Rickenbach                                       Delaware Tech
     rod@dtcc.edu                                 Computer Services Department
http://www.dtcc.edu/~rod                            Stanton/Wilmington Campus

------------------------------

From: clark@sh28.dseg.ti.com (Pat Clark 952-3776)
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 17:45:42 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Box stock 442 went 11.72

. My wife used to have a '72 Skylark Sun Coupe
> (extra points if you remember what a Sun Coupe was) with a 350-2V in it,
> and good grief, that thing _moved_.
>
> It also had factory horns that could blow the paint off a Datsun.  :-)
>
> Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431


OOO! OOO! Pick ME!

Sun Coupe: Early seventies Buick Skylark with a large retractable canvas "Sun
roof. Kinda like a very large moonroof that had a canvas cover instead of
glass.

Whaddi win?


 				Pat Clark
    				 69 442
    			        400/TH400
    			  clark@abu.dseg.ti.com

     The careful application of terror is also a form of communication.

------------------------------

From: bryce_smith@442.com (Bryceman)
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 18:16:42 -0300
Subject: Spring Insulators

I was under the impression that the front springs on my '66 Olds 88 would
have rubber insulators above and below the coil springs where they contact
the frame and lower control arms. There werent any when I pulled eveything
apart & I just assumed after 30 yrs they had disintegrated. My chassis
manual does not show any insulators, but the diagram of the front springs
isnt too great. Insulators are shown for the rear. Wont the springs have a
tendency to "groan" without these?


 EXCESSIVE IRON rules the road!
'65 442
'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender
 bryceman@442.com
 www.442.com

------------------------------

From: Ken <rottin@en.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 17:18:32 -0300
Subject: Re: Thurs. stuffs

Chris Brown Witt wrote:

>   The good news is: that IS a 425 engine, which is essentially an E-400 with
the > > bore of a 455! More power, more tork, the engine the factory WOULD
have put in > there had they been allowed, IMHO. Forged crank. Best heads.
Points off at show > time for incorrect casting/ engine... big deal. Unless
it's nothing BUT a show > car. In fact, one can put the innards of a 455 in
that D block and have a 455 > in 425's clothing. >    You should be able to
further identify your engine by a stamped in code on > the front of the RH
head, on the machined pad. The prefix & suffix letters > surrounding the
numbers tell all... Other tips, too. Email me for more... >


  Thanks for the facts.  It doesnt have a "T" suffix. :(

So I have a 1967 425 std. 4V-HC w/ "C" heads.. (coulda been worse I guess)

On a differnet note, the car has a 4.11 geared posi rear end.. any chance that
 baby was stock? =)

> > And, has anyone out there tried the "493cid olds/buick stroker combo"?
Was it > > > all that and more? :) > > Not many have the budget for that
kind of toy... or care to have a > non-streetable race-only car. -Chris- >
  Hmm.. non-streetable?  I was under the impression from the article on
brycemans web page that the 493 Olds was originally designed for motorhomes,
but found a place in street/strip apps. Mebbe your thinking of something
else.  I was refering to using Buick 455 rods in an Olds 455.  The only cost
I can forsee is the machine shop work..

Ken

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 18:40:11 -0300
Subject: Re: Can't you trust anyone anymore?

In a message dated 96-06-25 16:27:50 EDT, you write:

>Whoa, waitaminnit... How much did he get for the first one he sold?
>And they told him what happened to it? And what are they offering
>him now for the current one?

I don't know how much he got, he ain't saying except that he bought a _much_
better car and had money left over.  Might not like that his old one probably
got trashed but can't blame him either.

A lot of people ask him what he wants but none have come close to a price he
will even consider.  His new car is an _original_ 70 442 W-30 coupe.  By
original, I mean _original_ paint, interior, drivetrain, etc. Very nice car.

Bob Handren   OCA#7728
'67 W-30 Modified
'70 SX Covertible
Oviedo, FL (Brought to you today from Baltimore, MD)

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 17:39:55 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Box stock 442 went 11.72

>> (extra points if you remember what a Sun Coupe was) with a 350-2V in it,
>
>OOO! OOO! Pick ME!

Ah, yes, let's call on the person in the front row wearing the Bryceman
t-shirt and smelling faintly of burnt transmission fluid:

>Sun Coupe: Early seventies Buick Skylark with a large retractable canvas
>"Sun roof. Kinda like a very large moonroof that had a canvas cover
>instead of glass.

Yes! We would have given you extra credit for mentioning the unusual
_gold_ script nameplates on the B pillars, too. I still have ours.  :-)

The rest of the car did not survive an unsuccessful effort to move a
Foster Avenue train viaduct bridge support somewhat further east of
where the train company had built it, in 1985. My wife _did_ survive,
thanks to the massive structure of the car and its good seat belts.

>Whaddi win?

Hmmm, let's see. We'll give you your pick: A 2-bbl '69 Caddy 3-on-the-
tree carburetor, a GM remote-starter solenoid with automatic heat soak,
or a 1986 Cutlass Calais-that-doesn't-exist. Have I left anything out?

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 18:49:11 -0300
Subject: Re: Thurs. stuffs

Don't forget, the crank needs to be welded to narrow the throws because
hte Buick rods are "thinner" and would cause excessive side clearance.
Also you need to offset-grind the crank and clearance the assembly since
the longer stroke coupled with the shorter rod can cause clearance problems.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 22:18:43 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Box stock 442 went 11.72

Andrew C. Green wrote:
>
>
> Hmmm, let's see. We'll give you your pick: A 2-bbl '69 Caddy 3-on-the-
> tree carburetor, a GM remote-starter solenoid with automatic heat soak,
> or a 1986 Cutlass Calais-that-doesn't-exist. Have I left anything out?

* A lifetime supply of WD-40 (with extension nozzles)
* A half-melted heatgun for wood grain removal.        ;)


The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 20:30:09 -0300
Subject: Re: Spring Insulators

Bryce,
My 11 year newer :) 88 did not have rubber insulators up front, but did on
the top mounts in the back.  Maybe the excess weight, compared to the rear,
of the engine keeps the springs in constant contact with the spring seats
in the front.  Without a fully loaded trunk there would be a tendency to
"groan" if the insulators weren't there.

Don't you just love suspension work?

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    "Oldsmobile - powerful roadsters with big V8s"
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu

- ------------------
I was under the impression that the front springs on my '66 Olds 88 would
have rubber insulators above and below the coil springs where they contact
the frame and lower control arms. There werent any when I pulled eveything
apart & I just assumed after 30 yrs they had disintegrated. My chassis
manual does not show any insulators, but the diagram of the front springs
isnt too great. Insulators are shown for the rear. Wont the springs have a
tendency to "groan" without these?


 EXCESSIVE IRON rules the road!
'65 442
'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender
 bryceman@442.com
 www.442.com

------------------------------

From: Mike Hall <mikehal1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 21:04:03 -0300
Subject: RE: Box stock 442 went 11.72

>	Well we took out the back seat, carpet, aluminum wheels, fiberglass 
hood,
>W-30 intake, and 5 gal gas ( of course the role cage put back some of that
>weight). Car weighed in at over 3600 lbs. The secret to this car is that
>it hooks incredibly hard. 4.11 gear, 9 inch slick, and 4500 stall.


OK, so with no power to weight advantage, you gained 2 seconds off the
quarter and 12 MPH by adding a 4500 stall, slicks and a blueprinted
engine.


Uh-huh.....


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Michael R. Hall                                  Ortonville, Michigan
E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com
The Oldsmobile Stable:
     1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
     1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...
         Brought to you by a Apple Power Macintosh 7100/80
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

------------------------------

From: AMSOILL@aol.com
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 20:48:58 -0300
Subject: Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 #214

<<For what it's worth, I first started using Mobil 1 back in 1975, shortly
after it's introduction (that's been over 20 years) in my first brand
new car.. a 1975 Ch*vy Laguna Type S-3.  Had it rolling around in the
trunk for 3 weeks before I had the guts to put it in, but once I did, I
was sold.  I've used it ever since.>>

Hi Jeff;
         As I mentioned, Mobil 1 is an excellent product, but AMSOIL was
introduced in 1972, a little ahead of Mobil 1.  For its price range, Mobil
manufactures a phenomenal oil, no doubt about it.

                                                   Cheers,
                                                            Steve

                            7 year independent AMSOIL Synthetic Lubricants
Dealer
                         '77 Oldsmobile SKO, (Six Knights of Oldsmobile),
Cutlass owner
                         '69 427/450 horsepower factory installed, Yenko
Camaro owner
                                   (all AMSOIL'ized of course). :-)

------------------------------

From: AMSOILL@aol.com
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 20:50:12 -0300
Subject: Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 #208

> I have to smile when I see these other oil companies *just introducing*
>their "New" and "Revolutionary" synthetic oils.  Sure, synthetic oils were
>"New" and "Revolutionary" ...*over 20 years ago* when AMSOIL introduced them
>to the motoring public! :-)

Actually synthetic are a bunch older than that.  The Germans in WWII made
them out of necessity because the Allies blocked access to crude oil.
 Wouldn't be surprised if synthetic oils and lubricants are even much older
than that.


  AMSOIL was indeed the first company in the world to introduce synthetic
oils to the motoring public way back in 1972 with the first ever 100%
synthetic API rated petroleum motor oil formulated for the consumer.

   Synthetic oils themselves were first devoled by the Germans in WWII.
 German tank divisions were turning into piles of junk by using petroleum
oils in the frigid temperatures encountered on the Eastern front during the
winter.  The petroleum oils were freezing and not allowing their tanks, and
other equipment, to operate.  The solution was the development of synthetic
oils that by their very nature, have much lower pour points, (the ability to
stay fluid in cold temperatures), than petroleum oils do.

   During Lieutenant Colonel Al Amatuzio's, (founder, CEO and President of
AMSOIL INC.),  25 years as an award winning jet fighter pilot, he gained a
solid appreciation for the extraordinary lubricants that protected the
engines of the jets he flew.  He knew that *only* these lubricants, synthetic
lubricants, could stand up to the demanding conditions of jet engines and the
severe temperature extremes they encounter.

   He also knew that the same outstanding performance benefits synthetic
lubricants provide for jet engines would prove invaluable to car, truck and
other internal combusiton engines.

  In the mid-1960's, Al Amatuzio began an intense period of research and
development.  He assembled the industry's most knowledgeable chemists and
directed the formulation of the first synthetic motor oil to meet American
Petreolum Institute service requirements.

   The introduction of AMSOIL synthetic motor oil in 1972 set all new
standards for motor oil quality.  AMSOIL synthetic motor oil outperformed the
conventional opetroleum motor oils on all counts.  It was clear from the
start that this innovative product would play a major role in engine
performance and engine life, all entitling AMSOIL to the title, "AMSOIL, The
First in Synthetics".

                             I hope this helps answer your question.

                                                 Cheers,
                                                         Steve

                        7 year independent AMSOIL Synthetic Lubricants Dealer
                        '77 Oldmobile SKO, (Six Knights of Oldsmobile), owner
                        '69 factory equipped 427/450 horse Yenko Camaro owner
                                         (all AMSOIL'ized of course) :-)

------------------------------

From: AMSOILL@aol.com
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 20:50:07 -0300
Subject: Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 #214

">                    7 year Independent AMSOIL Synthetic Lubricants Dealer
>                       10 year B.F.Goodrich T/A Certified Tire Specialist
>                                 '77 Oldsmobile SKO Cutlass Owner



I know that someone has asked before, but what is a 77 Olds "SKO" Cutlass?

Steve?


 				Pat Clark
    				 69 442
    			        400/TH400
    			      clark@abu.com"

Hi Pat;
         To tell you the honest truth, I am not exactly positive.  I was
hoping someone here would have some details.  I have done a lot of research
on this car and I have come up empty as to what it really is.  I have called
Oldsmobile headquarters, contacted Oldsmobile clubs, etc., all to no avail.
 The car is not specially equipped in any way, aside from a shiny metal targa
band that sperates the half vinyl roof from the metal, painted section of
roof.  At the bottom of each side of the targa band, (looks great by the
way), is an emblem about the size of your palm with two crossed swords over a
shield with the letters, "SKO, Six Knights of Oldsmobile", emblazoned on it.

    The car has a 350 R code Oldsmobile engine that gets it around, but it
certainly is not anything quick.  I have been told that this was Oldsmobiles
1977 version of the "Rocket" engine.  It's not really slow, but if that was
Oldsmobiles idea of a "Rocket", I'd hate to see a sled! LOL :-)  I have to
really push her to beat a Ford Ecort GT. :-(  Not much torque to this engine
at all.  I also have a 1977 Pontiac Bonneville with the Oldsmobile 6.6 litre/
403 engine, which is basically the same engine as the Cutlass's 350 R, just
more cubic inches.  It is absolutely astounding what a difference 53 cubic
inches makes! :-)  Talk about a torque monster!  With the 403, you barely
need to touch the gas to maintain speed and the Bonneville almost always
outperforms the Cutlass in power *and* fuel economy, by a substantial margin
too.  Ever see a 4,000 lb., fully loaded 4-door sedan easily light up the
tires from a standing start? :-)  She'll do it.  She has embarassed more than
one new era "high performance" car. :-)  You know, the ones with the "high
performance" super bass speakers under the rear seat, the driver wearing the
backwards baseball cap for less aerodynamic drag and the, "No Fear" stickers
on the window that add 10 mph to the top end and cut quarter mile times by a
full second?! LOL :-)

  In fact, I took the car on a highway trip once to find out just how many
mpg's she could deliver on the highway, while *really* driving for fuel
economy; windows up, coasting down hills, treating the accelerator like an
egg, AC off, etc.  In tip top tune, AMSOIL in the engine, transmission, rear
axle and a high performance AMSOIL air filter being the only modifications,
this 4,000 lb., fully loaded car knocked down 30.9 mpg!  I even refilled at
the same gas pump I filled up at so the same pressure cut off switch would be
used and I would be replacing *exactly* the same amount of fuel as the engine
consumed.  Re-calculated the numbers three times to be sure of accuracy too.
 I was really astounded.  It was a very nice increase in fuel economy.

                             I only wish my Cutlass had a 403! :-)


                                              Cheers,
                                                       Steve

                          7 year independent AMSOIL Synthetic Lubricants
Dealer
                                      '77 Oldsmobile SKO Cutlass owner
                             '69 427/450 factory installed, Yenko Camaro
owner


------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 22:15:13 -0300
Subject: Re[9999]: Box stock 442 went 11.72

Well at least there's a bit more activity on the list today!

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    "Oldsmobile - powerful roadsters with big V8s"
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 00:30:37 -0300
Subject: Re: Re: Re; Re; etc

David Brown wrote:
>
> Well at least there's a bit more activity on the list today!

Really!


The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 00:28:23 -0300
Subject: Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 #214

>
> I know that someone has asked before, but what is a 77 Olds "SKO" Cutlass?

Synthetic Krap Only?

Sorry, I couldn't bite my tongue (finger?) any longer.      ;)

The 66 Toro SRB and Mike

(Squashed Right Bumperhorn)

- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: ne1469@ix.netcom.com (Karl Davlin )
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 22:06:26 -0300
Subject: Interior Lights

I got the round interior lights that go next to the rear window.  I
pulled them out of a '72 Buick.  I would like to know if they will fit
a '72 Cutlass.  I've seen them in '72 Cutlass Supreme with the "Boxed"
rear end.  Is the same for the other style rear end?  I believe they
call it fasback?

            Karl
            72 Cutlass

------------------------------

From: Dana and Mary Taylor <dmtaylor@top.monad.net>
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 00:24:54 -0300
Subject: Re: You've done it before

>
> >> Blasphemer!
>


> >only have to read the FAG's to figgure the best way to go.
>                        ^^^
> WELL now, if that's the way you feel!  ;)
> You guys gut no slack do ya???

>
> Is it the "Performer 350", #3711?  Keep it.  Use it.  Good stuff.
> Well you got me so excited I ran out and stsraed to take apart my engine.
Well to my joy - it is a 3711!!!
Tonight I took out the cam - on the back end it has the numbers - 89553 -
and a F019 (ford??) stamped behind the first bearing surface is the
number '1703' don't know if this is a keeper or not. The engine was very
clean inside. only a slight ridge on the cly's. the pistons fell out. The
lifters also lifted out with even the slightest resistance. Little or no
varnish on them. The cam wear is minimal and even. The rings on the
pistons i removed so far are all free. If I could only find out why i
smoked so bad and sounded like a Diesel!

Oh, by the way, I know that cam is not Ford but I figgured from my
previous blunders you would believe my observation.

------------------------------

From: ZQEY23A@prodigy.com (MR PETER S GUIDO)
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 23:29:39 -0300
Subject: 1963 Starfire Transmission

I'd like to know if there is anyone out there who has knowledge of a
good tranny shop in the Detroit metro area that does good work on old
transmissions, specifically the "Slim-Jim" Hydramatics.  I would also
like to know about reliable engine rebuilders in the same area.
There's a million in the phone book, but I'd like to be sure of whom
I'm dealing with.

Thanks

Peter Guido
1963 Olds Starfire convertible

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 22:44:31 -0300
Subject: RE: Box stock 442 went 11.72

Who says there was no power to weight advantage. I happen to know this =
thing made more power than stock. How you assemble the components (any =
components) is just as important if not more so than what components you =
select.

- ----------
From: 	Mike Hall[SMTP:mikehal1@ix.netcom.com]
Sent: 	Thursday, June 27, 1996 8:04 PM
To: 	Olds E-Mail News
Subject: 	RE: Box stock 442 went 11.72



OK, so with no power to weight advantage, you gained 2 seconds off the=20
quarter and 12 MPH by adding a 4500 stall, slicks and a blueprinted=20
engine.


Uh-huh.....


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Michael R. Hall                                  Ortonville, Michigan
E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com
The Oldsmobile Stable:   =20
     1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
     1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...
         Brought to you by a Apple Power Macintosh 7100/80
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 22:29:02 -0300
Subject: RE: Re[2]: Box stock 442 went 11.72

Rod wrote:

Perhaps a FULL list of all deviations from stock would convince me. :)
(Forged 13.5:1 superlight pistons, completely reworked intake manifold,
fully ported heads that were then glass beaded to look like untouched
castings, etc. ;)

I just can't believe that the Olds heads w/ a 3 angle valve job would=20
"flow enough" to turn these numbers...

The modifications were as follows. Balanced/Blueprinted, .30 over bore, =
stock replacement cast HC pistons (block was decked to give 10.2 : 1 =
compression with 0.28" compressed head gasket), w-30 spec cam, (as =
mentioned before), w-30 intake, big valve "C" heads with 3 angle valve =
job, electric fuel pump, MSD distributor with MSD 6AL, Turbo 400 with =
4500 stall, 4.11 gear, 9 " slicks, oh yes and 2.75" exhaust. As I also =
said previously this car hooks extremely hard and will pull the wheels =
about a foot high at the line, then its shifted at 5800rpm. Every inch =
of this car has been gone over to prevent any friction from robbing =
speed in the engine or chassis.

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 22:32:41 -0300
Subject: RE: Thurs. stuffs

You wrote:
>
> Not many have the budget for that kind of toy... or care to have a
> non-streetable race-only car. -Chris-
>
  Hmm.. non-streetable?  I was under the impression from the article on
brycemans web page that the 493 Olds was originally designed for motorhomes,
but found a place in street/strip apps. Mebbe your thinking of something
else.  I was refering to using Buick 455 rods in an Olds 455.  The only cost
I can forsee is the machine shop work..

Ken


Ken I have assembled 2 493 Mondello strokers and can assure you this makes a
fantastic engine for a street car. Better than a 455 in fact.

Chris Urban

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 23:07:25 -0300
Subject: RE: Box stock 442 went 11.72

Agreed.  Buying the right parts isn't much if you don't assemble or tune
the engine well.  And after all that, the chassis has to complement the
engine well, which I believe is much of the source of the low ET's for
factory cars.  Was the car's suspension modified at all?  I seem to run
into wheelhop problems when running on slicks even with a relatively mild
455...

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: "Peg O'Connor" <peg@grove.ufl.EDU>
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 23:44:59 -0300
Subject: RE: I'm just clueless

> I remember seeing a picture of someones 86 olds Cutlass Supreme on one of
the web pages, which looked exactly like mine (except for the grill inserts)
and the picture was labelled 86 olds Cutlass Calais. I thought it was a
type-o. Maybe it isn't? I will try and find it and send out the url.

That might be me -- I have a 1978 Cutlass Calais and a 1986 Cutlass
Supreme.  I have separate pics and separate headings for each of them, tho.

8)
peg

------------------------------

From: "Peg O'Connor" <peg@grove.ufl.EDU>
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 00:32:23 -0300
Subject: Re: Oil pressure gauge ergonomics

>      Lately I've been thinking about the Oil Pressure gauge on my '84 H/O.
>      Of the 4 small gauges (temp, oil, fuel, volts) in the rally pack, the
>      Oil gauge is mounted on the top right, which is the absolute worst
>      position since it's normally blocked by your hand if you use the
>      10:00/2:00 steering wheel positions like you're supposed to.

Solution:  Try the one-thumb-at-6:00 position -- works great!!  :)

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 19:29:37 -0300
Subject: Re: THM200-4R gear ratios

Shawn Twomey wrote:
>
> >I would get a rebuilt one as long as it was a professional one. The gearing
> >on these tranny's are incredible. Much better that a TH-350.
>
> FYI:  the actual gear ratios for the THM200-4R (used on all '83/'84 H/Os
> and '85-'87 442s) are:
>
> I  2.74
> II  1.57
> III  1.00
> IV  .67            [source:  '84 Hurst/Olds promo]
>
> That first gear ratio combined with the 3.73 rear end makes for quite a
> quick final drive ratio.  Sorry, I don't know the ratios for the 350.
>
> BTW:  this is my first post from new mail client software (MS Exchange).
>  Could someone please let me know if my signature is screwed up or
> anything?
>
> ______________________________________________
> Shawn M. Twomey  |  "No!  Try not!  Do, or do
> stwom@ctp.com    |   not.  There is no try."
>                  |   -Yoda
> ______________________________________________
> Shawn:

It looks just as shabby as always.  Is there supposed to be somethig
wrong?

Seriously, the Yoda quote is not spread across the page & is truncated
into 3 short lines.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Nick DiGiovanni <ndigiova@direct.ca>
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 23:54:44 -0300
Subject: RE: Box stock 442 went 11.72

At 09:25 PM 6/26/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Ummmmm, yea, my jaws dropped too... This isn't April... right?
>
>1970 W-30's are/were around 14.3 seconds in the quarter at 100 mph.
>
>1968 H/O's are/were running 14 flat at 97 mph.
>
>How much weight did you take out of that car in order to obtain those
>kind of numbers?

I'll have to side with Chris Urban on this one.  Remember that in the '60's
and '70's it was magazine writers who test drove these cars with little
bias-ply pizza-cutter tires.  Their main job was to write articles not drag
race.  Once you put slicks on and have an optimally tuned engine and put an
experienced driver behind the wheel, then the e/t's drop dramatically.

I plugged all the numbers that Chris provided us (ie. 4500 stall, weight,
TH-400, rear end ratio, shift points, tire dimensions etc.) into my Quarter
Jr. program.  I assumed a 400 HP '70 W-30 motor.  I know that that motor is
technically rated at 370 HP but the same motor is rated at 400 HP in the
Toronado (and even that is being conservative!)  It gave me a result of
11.96 at 112.2 MPH and I was still getting tire slippage for the first 0.232
seconds!  This software program is is supposed to be accurate within +/- 1%.
So, 11.72 at 112 mph is very close.  In fact, if I plugged in 420 HP instead
of 400 HP, I get a result of 11.78 at 114.0 MPH.  Great work Chris!!

Nick DiGiovanni
Port Coquitlam, B.C.
1970 4-4-2 - "Snarls Softly and Carries a Big Kick"

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 00:48:15 -0300
Subject: RE: THM200-4R gear ratios

>That first gear ratio combined with the 3.73 rear end makes for quite a
>quick final drive ratio.  Sorry, I don't know the ratios for the 350.

2.52
1.52
1.00

>BTW:  this is my first post from new mail client software (MS Exchange).

I'm sorry.

Roger Borlase
http://www.microdata.com/rborlase

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 14:10:45 -0300
Subject: TH200 4-R (automatic O.D.) swap

(sorry if anyone's allready posted info like this on the list, I've Just
joined this evening.)

    Anyone who would like to know what it took to install a 1985 automatic
overdrive in a 1972 Vista-Cruiser (F-85 wagon) behind an Olds 350 motor,
just let me know.  I can give you pertinent information as to how it can be
done allthough most of what I know I found out in back issues of Hot Rod
Magazine.
        The swap is fundamentally a bolt-in.  (nothing needs cutting,
drilling, or welding)It can be performed a la shade tree for less than
$500(I did it for less than $400)...including the $200 I paid for the
transmission.
        I can also tell you how I've managed to keep the allegedly "weak"
stock 200-4R trans alive in my 4400 pound car for going on eleven months and
14 thousand miles.  An article in Hot Rod magazine said that the 200-4R,
contrary to popular belief, can be built to handle about as much abuse as a
TH700...about 400 lb torqe. I think that's the max torque if the car is
running slicks, but I have to find the article to be sure.
        The car averages about 14.5 mpg on my city/highway daily commute and
the engine spins about 1700 rpm cruising at 60 mph with a 3.08 final
drive.(the overdrive gear ratio is .67 to one)  The engine spins about 2400
at 85mph.
        Anyone who would like to know the gory details can E-mail me, I'll
tell you how it can be done.
                          Greg Pruett
                          grpruett@vt.edu

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 01:28:20 -0300
Subject: Re: 1963 Starfire Transmission

Hi Pete, I can help you on your engine and tranny.  The engine shop is called
Total
Automotive Performance.  Owned and operated by Andy and Tony Mannarino.  Andy
and
Tony raced Pro-Stock Oldsmobile from 81 to 84.  I just finished dynoing my
engine tonight 06/27/95 at 0930pm.  They have good prices, a good rep and
build excellant engines.  Tony happens to be a engineer for Fords SVO and he
has many years experience at building stock to full drag engines.  His number
is 313-533-7060.  For the tranny work call me (Mark at 313-336-8135).  By the
way Pete, I live on the West side of Detroit around Southfield x-way and
Warren.


72 442 W-30 Race Rocket

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 01:28:00 -0300
Subject: Box stock 442 went 11.72 (not impossible)

We have a fellow here in Det area and races a NHRA S/S olds.  His car runs at
11.60's.
The engine are TRW2323DF's, match port intake and exhaust sides of heads.
Balanced and blueprinted, 12 bolt olds rearend with 4:56 gears 4500 stall
from B&M. Q-jet (has to run stock manufacture parts.  W-30 intake(yes real
one), Hooker super comp headers are allowed.  The car weights in at 3700lbs.
 Car is manual steering, manual disc brakes
plain heat, air bags th400 and the 455 is punched out .030.  So yes it is
possible as long as you can hook.

Mark Prince
72 442 W-30 Race Rocket
seeing is beliving

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 08:01:57 -0300
Subject: Re: Sun Coupe

> . My wife used to have a '72 Skylark Sun Coupe
> > (extra points if you remember what a Sun Coupe was) with a 350-2V in it,
> > and good grief, that thing _moved_.
> >
> > It also had factory horns that could blow the paint off a Datsun.  :-)
> >
> > Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
>
>
> OOO! OOO! Pick ME!
>
> Sun Coupe: Early seventies Buick Skylark with a large retractable canvas
"Sun > roof. Kinda like a very large moonroof that had a canvas cover instead
of glass.

Yup, the Sun Coupe.  There's still a coupla them driving around Framingham.
In fact, I pulled up next to one in Big Red at a stop light, and we were both
complimenting our cars... *then* he took a look at my SSI wheels and asked
me why I put a set of Buick 'mags' on my car!!!! :)



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'88 Cadillac Brougham, a.k.a. 'Big Blue' -- Olds 307 Powered!!
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: clark@sh28.dseg.ti.com (Pat Clark 952-3776)
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 09:29:12 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Box stock 442 went 11.72

> Yes! We would have given you extra credit for mentioning the unusual
> _gold_ script nameplates on the B pillars, too. I still have ours.  :-)

Damn! knew I forgot something!

> >Whaddi win?
>
> Hmmm, let's see. We'll give you your pick: A 2-bbl '69 Caddy 3-on-the-
> tree carburetor, a GM remote-starter solenoid with automatic heat soak,
> or a 1986 Cutlass Calais-that-doesn't-exist. Have I left anything out?
>
> Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431

Is that the ultra-rare unit that has been discussed before? WOW! I'll take
that!

BTW, There is an article in the BOP mags on a 72 Sun Coupe. Let me know if you
are interested.

 				Pat Clark
    				 69 442
    			        400/TH400
    			  clark@abu.dseg.ti.com

     The careful application of terror is also a form of communication.

------------------------------

From: clark@sh28.dseg.ti.com (Pat Clark 952-3776)
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 09:33:24 -0300
Subject: Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 #214

> > I know that someone has asked before, but what is a 77 Olds "SKO" Cutlass?
>
> Synthetic Krap Only?
>
> Sorry, I couldn't bite my tongue (finger?) any longer.      ;)

> Michael R. Frederick, CEO

HA HA HA HA! Glad someone with a bigger mouth (fingers?) than me piped up
first!


Gotta Love It!


 				Pat Clark
    				 69 442
    			        400/TH400
    			  clark@abu.dseg.ti.com

     The careful application of terror is also a form of communication.

------------------------------

From: J.Easton@zds.com (Jeff Easton)
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 08:36:01 -0300
Subject: Goodbye

     Due to the purchase of ZDS by Packard Bell, they are closing the ZDS
     engineering/corporate facility here.  Thus today is my last day, and I
     will be moving on.

     Just a quick thanks to Greg and all the people on the Olds list.  I've
     been a subscriber since day one, and enjoyed every minute of it.  Its
     great to have 100+ "friends" to turn to when you have a question on
     your Olds.

     I'm sure I'll be back when I get settled into the new job.  Until
     then, keep the discussions going, and those Olds running...

     -Jeff Easton
     j.easton@zds.com
     Zenith Data Systems

     1970 442 4-speed

------------------------------

From: "Shokouhi, Mike" <shokouhm@nasd.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 10:01:09 -0300
Subject: RE: Spring Insulators

I don't think your suppose to have them, my '66 GTO conv. (about same
size as a Olds 88 -I think) does not have them, nor my '69 H/O.
However, you might end up with a finger or two acting as an insulator if
you're not careful  :-)'

>----------
>: 	Spring Insulators
>
>I was under the impression that the front springs on my '66 Olds 88
>would
>have rubber insulators above and below the coil springs where they
>contact
>the frame and lower control arms.
>

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 13:23:15 -0300
Subject: Re: Goodbye

Jeff Easton wrote:
>
> Due to the purchase of ZDS by Packard Bell, they are closing the ZDS
> engineering/corporate facility here.  Thus today is my last day, and I
> will be moving on.

Jeff,

Sorry to hear about the ZDF facility closure and the loss of your job.
Jeannie and I have had similar experiences in the past and, in the long
run, it always seemed to work out for the better.  I trust it will the
same in your case.

Look forward to hearing from you again when you get resettled.  Let me
know if I can be of any help.

Best of Luck,


The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 10:09:59 -0300
Subject: Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 #208

>> I have to smile when I see these other oil companies *just introducing*
>>their "New" and "Revolutionary" synthetic oils.  Sure, synthetic oils were
>>"New" and "Revolutionary" ...*over 20 years ago* when AMSOIL introduced them
>>to the motoring public! :-)
>
>Actually synthetic are a bunch older than that.  The Germans in WWII made
>them out of necessity because the Allies blocked access to crude oil.

"Made the rubble bounce at Ploesti" would be a better description...

>  AMSOIL was indeed the first company in the world to introduce synthetic
>oils to the motoring public way back in 1972 with the first ever 100%
>synthetic API rated petroleum motor oil formulated for the consumer.

[...sales pitch deleted...]

>                             I hope this helps answer your question.

Question? What question? You were quoting yourself above, from your last
advertisement of 6/12/96, a reply to another question which you did not
address: specifically:

>>  3) Anyone have any experience w/ semi-synthetic oils, specifically
>>        Valvoline DuraBlend or Castrol's version?

Let me also summarize additional questions raised by myself and others
which appeared over the past couple of weeks and were not addressed:

1) You stated:

> Semi-synthetic oils, or "blend" oils, by law, can have as little as
> -->--> 1% <--<--
> synthetic oil in them and still be legally called a "blend".

Could you tell us, if known, what the blend percentages are for the
two brands he is asking about?

2) Are there in fact brands of semi-synthetic oil out there which are only
1% synthetic, and which ones are they?

3) You stated:
> The benefits of a high quality synthetic oil are
> many.  Another good synthetic oil on the market is Mobil 1.  Not as good as
> AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oil, but a very good oil none the less.

How is Mobil 1 inferior to AMSOIL?

I like to think I am a bit more patient than some others you can run into
on the Internet, but this is starting to get aggravating.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

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From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 10:24:18 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Box stock 442 went 11.72

A>BTW, There is an article in the BOP mags on a 72 Sun Coupe. Let me
>know if you are interested.

Yes, definitely. (Non-Olds content following; you have been warned.)

Back in '72, I was at the Boston Auto Show and remember seeing the Sun
Coupe on display there. It had a turntable all to itself, was jacked
way up on one side so you could sort of see down into the car through
the sliding sunroof (okay, accordion-pleated...). The display one (a
prototype, I suppose) was all gold outside and had the weirdest two-
tone, kind-of-translucent gold vinyl seatcovers. To this day I can
remember the repeating pattern of two-tone circles on the seats.

My wife's was the same gold, but with a black bench interior and pretty
standard otherwise. It had 72K when we bought it and was kind of tired,
but had been cared for (when we drove off from the previous owner's
house, his wife burst into tears :-} and ran great for years after. We
named it "Doris", but I have no idea why.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 12:53:43 -0300
Subject: 69 Police 455 engine?

Well, drained the '69 alleged Police engine last night... still waiting for
any tips at all on how to identify a Police motor as compared to say an
ordinary 455. I think this engine will get a full teardown & inspection,
intake seals are leaking, and I want to know if it has big valves or not, and
what pistons are used. Needs paint, too, and the front pair of block drains
should be drilled out.

Here's what I've discovered so far:
  Used to be blue, might even be the original color.
  Has water pump with "dot" ID, casting number something like 381680, not sure
of the exact numbers, but NOT the 400269, -268, or -289 pumps used on 442's,
engines with HDCooling... _442 by the Numbers_ and Mondello's tech manual
don't seem to agree as to the applications this pump was used on, was it for
W30 and W32 or not... Speaking of which...

What is W32 in 1969 anyhow? The service manual doesn't seem to list it...

  Was definitely a big-car motor: non-notched RACovers, only the rear block
drain plug was drilled [one plugged off with a Lug Bolt!], front RH motor
mount hole still had a stud in it.
  Has the standard cast crank :-( presumably a Nodular iron version :-)
  2-groove pulleys, presumably for PS & Alternator, thus not from an AC car.
Alternator was mounted on the engine's LH side, but may not have been
originally... the brackets used looked a bit different to me. In fact, the
installer found a new & unusual use for that bracket that usually runs up to
the bolt on the backside of the alternator... Combined it with the spacer that
usually goes over the water pump bolt/stud, and attached it to the front of
the head...

Carb and dist'r are long gone, and intake is the std. all-big-V8's '68-69
intkae, a "J". Maybe this is the engine for the "yard truck"- My brother got a
free 4WD Ch*vy 4x4 with big tires last week... no engine & trans... Fit a boom
to it... yeah...
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #216
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