To:	oldsmobile-digest @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET @ ABTLAB
Date:	08/06/96 01:19:06 PM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #258


oldsmobile-digest          Tuesday, 6 August 1996       Volume 01 : Number 258


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 13:02:54 -0300
Subject: Re: Stupid Human Tricks

> Came across this story and thought you guys might enjoy it...
> 
> Randy Tindell of Livermore, California, was injured recently after he 
> attempted to replace a tubelike fuse in his Ford pickup with a 22-caliber 
> rifle bullet (used because it was a perfect fit).   However, when 
> electricity heated the bullet, it went off and shot him in the knee. 


Weren't we discussing effective alarm and theft protection systems
earlier?

- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-5450    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: Rocketeer <bparker@nmsu.edu>
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 13:48:48 -0300
Subject: Re: rallye 350

> i have one of those loud sebring yellow rallye350. i have the original build
> sheet that has paint code 51 upper 51 lower,but my vin plate has the "--"
> for the paint code. i have not seen another rallye 350 with out the code 51
> on the vin. has anybody else seen a rallye without the 51 on the vin.
> another question i also have a 67 cutlass conv that has a 330, 320
> horsepower red car red int. red top it is also a a/c car this car is for
> sale it is in poor condition but can be restored. if any body is interested
> reply or email me


I have seen Rallye 350's with both the code 51 and the double -- for 
paint code. A friend out here has a 70 442 convertible that is Sebring 
Yellow as well with the double "--" for paint code. The explanation that
I can offer is that early in '70 it was considered a special order color,
later in the year it became a regular production color. The previously 
mentioned ragtop was built three weeks after mine, date code was 09D. 

Boyd Parker (aka Rocketeer)            __|__
                                      |  |  |  Why drive just a car...
1966 4-speed Cutlass Convertible      |  |  |  when you can ride a rocket !
1970 4-4-2 Convertible                |  |  |
                                      | /|\ |
                                      |/ | \|
                                      |__|__|
                                         |

------------------------------

From: lacey@dsea.com (Dan Lacey)
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 15:02:16 -0300
Subject: RE: Traction Aids 

>>- The right spring
>>- The right shock
>>- The right tire
>>- The right anit-sway bar
>>- The right magic part
>>- The right bushing
>>etc.......
>
>     Umm, OK, what about the left ones!!!   ;)
>


Dooooohhh!!!!

Now I know why I am going around in circles!!!!


*************************************************************************
* THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY  *       Dan Lacey ( lacey@dsea.com )        *
*                           *       Dainippon Screen Eng. of America    *
* LEFT BLANK                *       3700 W. Segerstrom Ave.             *
*                           *       Santa Ana, CA. 92704                *
*************************************************************************

------------------------------

From: kissrulz@gnn.com (Craig Dobbins)
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:06:30 -0300
Subject: Smoke from tailpipes 

Hello everyone,
  You may have heard from me in my many questions to this list, my name is 
Craig Dobbins, I live just outside of Buffalo, N.Y..  I am a new (3 months) 
owner of a '68 442 convertable.  I bought it from the original owner, have 
all the documentation, and all the #'s match.  Nothing has been done to this 
car except BASIC maintainance since his and his wife's purchase of the 
vehicle in 1968.  I'm just starting my restoration, and have another 
question.  I have white smoke coming from my two tailpipes during the first 
three or four minutes of start-up (if it sits for a day or so).  The smoke 
quits on one tailpipe a good minute or two before the other.  I've been told 
this could be a blown headgasket which is letting in moisture (water), which 
then burns off (I keep it garaged all the time, so it's not like moisture has 
a chance to build up on the car).  I've also been told that this is because 
my valve seals are old and are letting oil into the compression chambers, 
which then burns off after start-up.  I've ALSO been told that I could 
possibly have a cracked block.  The car only has 65,750 original miles on it, 
and is relitivly fresh for it's age.  They bought it when they were around 
40, and I don't think, really Hot Rodded it around a lot, which tends to lead 
me away from the cracked block theory (no, I haven't done a compression check 
yet).  Please, anybody, write back with any solutions to this problem.

                                                          Thank you,
                                                            Craig Dobbins

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 14:26:09 -0300
Subject: Re: Smoke from tailpipes 

In a message dated 96-08-05 13:09:42 EDT, kissrulz@gnn.com (Craig Dobbins)
writes:

>I've also been told that this is because 
>my valve seals are old and are letting oil into the compression chambers, 
>which then burns off after start-up.

Craig,

That would be my guess. They crack and break apart too. Remember to clean out
all the oil returns in the heads with a coat hanger or similar device when
you put the new seals in too!!  Not a very costly fix either!

I'm sure the rest of the gang will have more feedback for you!
 
Good luck!

Sparky

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 15:54:13 -0300
Subject: Re: Smoke from tailpipes 

          
I have white smoke coming from my two tailpipes during the first three or four 
minutes of start-up (if it sits for a day or so).  The smoke quits on one 
tailpipe a good minute or two before the other...

          Is the smoke wispy white, or is it a heavy blue-white?  The 
          former indicates water vapor, which is primarily due to 
          condensation in the exhaust system and probably not a cause 
          for concern, especially if it only occurs if the car has 
          been sitting for a while.  This can be compounded by water 
          in the gas or high humidity.  
          
          The latter situation (heavy blue-white smoke) is the classic 
          oil burning indication.  Usually, however, this will 
          manifest itself at other times as well, such as when you 
          suddenly get off the throttle after hard accelleration.  In 
          addition, you should start to see the oil level in the 
          engine dropping.
          
          The blown head gasket and/or cracked block are certainly 
          possiblilities, but I would not rank them as high 
          probability.  Usually other signs would also be in evidence, 
          such as water in the oil, low compression, rough running, 
          etc.  Keep in mind that a 1960s vintage cast iron V-8 is 
          much less likely to succumb to these problems as a modern, 
          thin-wall casting alloy engine.
          
          Good luck
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          79 W-30

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 16:09:15 -0300
Subject: Re: 70 350 Carb info 

Does  anyone know what size and type of Holly 4brl carb will go onto a 70 350 
with orriginal intake. If possible, a part number of the carb would be very 
usefull.       Thanks   Greg Del   70 Cutlass Supreme   Mich...
          
          Holley makes spread-bore (ie, Q-Jet replacement) carbs which 
          will bolt on.  Otherwise, the normal "square" Holley carbs 
          will require an adapter, with the result that the added 
          restriction of the adapter will negate any advantage of the 
          new carb.
          
          A better question is why?  The Q-Jet flows 750 cfm, which is 
          about 150 cfm more than you will ever use on a mild, 
          street-driven 350 Olds.  (You didn't mention the state of 
          the engine or its intended use, so I assumed a mild, 
          street-driven engine with stock heads and mid-3 rear-end 
          gears).  The Holley has a reputation of being easier to work 
          on (OK, it is) and parts are readily available, but IMHO the 
          Q-Jet is just as "tuneable" and will yield better 
          driveability (Holleys are notorious for their mid-range flat 
          spot, as the carb is primarily designed for W.O.T.).  Try 
          The Carb Shop or H.O. Racing for Q-Jet parts (individual 
          gaskets, jets, metering rods, etc).  And if you absolutely 
          must have an aftermarket carb, I'd suggest a Carter AFB.  
          Available Strip Kits simplify tuning and these are air valve 
          carburetors, just like the Q-Jet.  I've run all three 
          (Q-Jet, Carter, and Holley) on the street on Olds motors, 
          and I would rank them in that order.
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 15:15:06 -0300
Subject: Smoke from tailpipes -Reply

>this could be a blown headgasket which is letting in moisture (water),
>which then burns off (I keep it garaged all the time, so it's not like
>moisture has a chance to build up on the car).  
(...)
>I've ALSO been told that I could possibly have a cracked block.

If either of these two were the cause of the "smoke", it would be white
*steam*.  Stick your hand a couple of inches behind the tail pipe while it's
smoking and see if your hand gets soaked.  It so, this might be the
problem.  If not, check the valve seals...

- -BS
'72 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: bryce_smith@442.com (Bryceman) 
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 15:17:33 -0300
Subject: [none]

unsubscribe oldsmobile

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 16:20:07 -0300
Subject: Re: J-2 intake 

          
A friend of mine has a J-2 Tri power setup off a 1957 Olds 394. 
He also has a 6 1-barrel stromberg setup for the same motor.  He 
has offered to let me borrow either setup (wont sell them). The 
question is will either of these 394 setups bolt directly to a 67 425. 

          The early-style Olds V8 (49-64) has nothing in common with 
          the later (64-up) units.  Intake manifolds will not bolt on, 
          as port spacing/dimensions are totally differnt.  Sorry.  An 
          adapter plate would be difficult or impossible to fit in the 
          space available - you would probably find it easier to just 
          hog out a whole intake!
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 18:01:02 -0300
Subject: Re: 69 toronado 

At 12:40 PM 8/3/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Reggie:
>
>welcome to the club.  I have a 1967 that is getting back on the road 
>after many years storage.  I just saw a 1968 or 1969 in a junk yard that 
>is missing the front seat & engine.  It was complete & rust free 
>otherwise for $200.
>
>Bill Culp
>Decatur, Alabama

Great to see another '69 Toro owner out there (this is my first Toro). Bill,
how much for the postage on that junkyard Toro? There are *NONE* around
here. None. Nada. "Nah, we don't have anything *that* old..." They have all
returned to their base elements (I guess nobody bothered to replace the
trunk drain tubes) up here in the Northeast.

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: Brad Nicholson <76062.3042@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 18:34:24 -0300
Subject: CCR Monthly Meeting

Attention Baltimore, Washington DC and Northern VA Oldsmobilers!!!

The next meeting of the Capitol City Rockets will be 8/14/96 @ 7:30PM @ Tyson
Corner Pizza Hut.  Everyone is welcome.  If you need directions, drop me a line

 ---
| | |  Brad Nicholson
| | |  1987 442
|/|\|  President - Capitol City Rockets
| | |  76062.3042@compuserve.com
 ---

------------------------------

From: Brad Nicholson <76062.3042@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 18:34:20 -0300
Subject: CCR Fall Show

Hello Oldsmobilers!!!

I know this came out once before, but here it is again.  It will be out 2 more
times before the show {Mainly for the newbies on the list}

The Capitol City Rockets Chapter of the Oldsmobile Club of America will be
having our 8th Annual All-Oldsmobile Fall Show on Sunday October 6, 1996 @
Templeton Oldsmobile in Vienna, VA featuring:
  
o  OCA judging w/ awards
o  FREE T-shirt, dash plaque and goodie bag for each entry.
o  Oldies 100 WBIG to supply the tunes.
o  Food vendor for your heart clogging needs with breakfast & lunch
o  Parts Department open w/ discounts on all cash & check purchases
o  Great door prizes to be given away all day.

Pre-registration $10 first car, $5 each additional car,  $12 day of show.
PRE-1949 Oldsmobiles & spectators are free !!!!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Gates open @ 9AM, judging starts @ 12PM,  awards as soon as judging is 
completed
(3PM???)

For more info or a registration form, e-mail me.


 ---  
| | |  Brad Nicholson
| | |  1987 442 W-42
|/|\|  President - Capitol City Rockets, OCA
| | |  76062.3042@compuserve.com
 ---

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 14:07:59 -0300
Subject: Re: Smoke from tailpipes

JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com wrote:
> 
> 
> I have white smoke coming from my two tailpipes during the first three or 
four
> minutes of start-up (if it sits for a day or so).  The smoke quits on one
> tailpipe a good minute or two before the other...
> 
>           
> 
>           

If you are worried about water in the oil, check the dipstick for a 
white frothy substance on the stick.  A blown headgasket will put water 
in the exhaust.  You should notice a loss of coolent in the radiator. As 
the car warms up, you might notice bubbles & foaming in the radiator as 
the compression from the engine puts air in the cooling system.  

I agree w/the diagnosis that you are only getting condensation from the 
exhaust system drawn from the air.  Believe it or not, many garages are 
not moisture proof.

Oil smoke is noticeable as blueish.  You should see this on 
decelleration and at idle as the engine warms up.  A heavy dark exhaust 
is usually gasoline related.  This is the choke staying on or the float 
allowing too much gasoline in the carburetor for the engine to burn.

Spark plugs can help here too.  Take one or two out to look.  Black 
plugs are gasoline soaked.  Oily/black plugs have oil control problems. 
 What you want in plugs is a slightly brownish/golden color bordering on 
white.  The compression check is a definite choice if you suspect oil 
problems.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 19:34:21 -0300
Subject: Re: Smoke from tailpipes 

At 09:06 AM 8/5/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Hello everyone,
>  You may have heard from me in my many questions to this list, my name is 
>Craig Dobbins, I live just outside of Buffalo, N.Y..  I am a new (3 months) 
>owner of a '68 442 convertable.  I bought it from the original owner, have 
>all the documentation, and all the #'s match.  Nothing has been done to this 
>car except BASIC maintainance since his and his wife's purchase of the 
>vehicle in 1968.  I'm just starting my restoration, and have another 

That is an excellent car to own! It is nice to know everything that your car
has gone through.

>question.  I have white smoke coming from my two tailpipes during the first 
>three or four minutes of start-up (if it sits for a day or so).  The smoke 

That is simply condensation burning off. Every car, no matter where you are,
has condensation build up inside the exhaust system which evaporates. Don't
worry about it, unless the smoke continues, or has a distinctive bluish
tinge to it during the entire time.

>quits on one tailpipe a good minute or two before the other.  I've been told 

The difference in time that the smoke stops could be worrysome, except if
you have one thing: an exhaust manifold heat riser control valve (a
butterfly-type valve on one exhaust manifold). This forces most of the
exhaust back through the exhaust crossover passage in the intake manifold to
help the car warm up; when the engine reaches a certain temperature, it
opens, allowing all the exhaust to flow through the pipes. You can tell
which exhaust manifold has this valve; it is a wound-spring on a shaft on
the side of the manifold. Since one exhaust pipe is getting less exhaust
until this valve opens up, it will take longer for the condensation to burn 
off.

>this could be a blown headgasket which is letting in moisture (water), which 

No, then it would always put out white smoke (been there, done that)

>then burns off (I keep it garaged all the time, so it's not like moisture has 
>a chance to build up on the car).  I've also been told that this is because 

Unless you have a climate-controlled garage with a dehumidifier, you have
condensation inside your exhaust pipes after it sits for a little while.

>my valve seals are old and are letting oil into the compression chambers, 
>which then burns off after start-up.  I've ALSO been told that I could 

It could be, but that would give you one big puff of bluish smoke when you
start it up, that would go away very quickly.

>possibly have a cracked block.  The car only has 65,750 original miles on it, 
>and is relitivly fresh for it's age.  They bought it when they were around 

You *could*, but I doubt it, because you would have other symptoms
(overheating, or milky oil, for example)

>40, and I don't think, really Hot Rodded it around a lot, which tends to lead 
>me away from the cracked block theory (no, I haven't done a compression check 
>yet).  Please, anybody, write back with any solutions to this problem.

Well, you have to do a bit more diagnosis (compression test, leakdown test,
all which you should do on any car you buy or are considering buying), but
I'd say that if nothing else appears wrong, you have a perfectly normal
engine in an extremely nice car.

Welcome to the list, Craig, and tell us how she comes out!

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 18:29:43 -0300
Subject: Re: Smoke from tailpipes 

>I have white smoke coming from my two tailpipes during the first 
>three or four minutes of start-up (if it sits for a day or so). The smoke 
>quits on one tailpipe a good minute or two before the other. 

I agree with the other followups; this in itself doesn't conclusively
look like a blown head gasket, since you didn't mention foaming oil or
dropping coolant levels, and the symptoms go away after a few minutes.
Our '72 LeMans with full duals, no crossover, would do this as well,
right down to the fact that one tailpipe quit smoking at a distinctly
different time than the other, and it was fine. My guess is that the
exhaust system takes longer to heat on one side than the other, and
when either side finally gets heated enough, the exhaust no longer
allows condensation to form in the pipes.

A blown gasket and burning (well, steaming) coolant will produce thick
white clouds and a distinct sweet odor; plain condensation clouds will
smell of just about nothing. You didn't mention any odor.

Finally, it could be that there's a hairline flaw in a head gasket, and
after you switch off, the residual cooling system pressure will allow a
small puddle of coolant into one or more cylinders, to be burned as soon
as you restart. But that would be a very brief, thick cloud at startup,
and you'd be able to get that after only a half-hour or so of shutdown,
not only after an overnight wait.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 19:43:09 -0300
Subject: QJet- How I converted from a 4-bbl to a 2-bbl... :( 

If you *really* want to remove the troublesome bog from your Quadrajet, you
can do what I just did on my rebuilt 403:

1. Loosen locknut with allen wrench
2. Tighten screw a couple turns until you feel some resistance
3. *Keep* on turning the screw until you feel *no* resistance
4. Wire the secondary air valve shut so you don't have the incredible bog
from hell.

So until I can get another qjet from the boneyard, I've got a great running,
rumpity-rump cammed, high-performance *2-bbl* Olds 403... :(

Does anyone know if this spring is replaceable? I've got another parts carb
that has the same problem (no, I didn't do that one). I don't want to spend
$300 for someone else to rebuild it just to replace that spring (this
buildup is already way Way WAY _WAAAAY_ overbudget!).

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 18:55:59 -0300
Subject: Union, IL -- Messy report follows 

Well, it's been one of those days so this is going to be purely
stream-of-consciousness writing just so I can get this thing out
the door:

Union, IL is the home of the Illinois Railway Museum, a huge place
in the middle of the farm fields with a wild collection of old
rail transportation: steam engines, Diesels, urban transit, streetcars,
you name it. Lots of it is in running order, some downright mint, and
they have about nine miles (I think it is) of track running through the
countryside on which they give rides. This place is _big_; they use some
of the restored electric streetcars on a circumferential track around the
place with about four stops so you can get around to see it all. Some of
their trains are frequently used in movies... um... "A League of Their
Own" is the only title I can think of right now... D'Oh!!! I had a list
around here somewhere... Fantastic train: An all stainless-steel Silver
Zephyr from the early '50's: engine and five cars, all working order,
just stunning. All working; you could get on and relax in 1950's air
conditioned comfort, press a button, recline your seat, close the blinds
and just snooze. The tail car is an observation car with individual,
rotating, reclining wingback chairs. Some people are probably still 
in there.  :-)

So anyway, yesterday was the sixth annual Transportation Day, at which
they invited clubs for just about anything that rolled on wheels to come
over and show off. Interspersed with Oldsmobile clubs and certain more
disreputable brands such as Ch*vy were real antique Model Ts, Model As,
big trucks, motorcycles, military equipment, etc. I shot a few pictures
which I'll forward to Bryce for posting as soon as they're developed;
I was pretty bad for taking notes but saw what I remember as a tri-power
Starfire from around 1964 (raise your hand if I'm describing your car);
a nice Fiesta convertible from what I'd guess to be about 1955, spotted
and photographed from a train so I couldn't get closer at the time; an
Olds Ninety-Eight from, oh, early '50's or so; and one or two others 
that I photographed, then forgot about. Will see what's on film. I did
not see any specific Olds club signs, only the generic brand signs put
out by the museum, so I can't say specifically which Olds club was there.
But next year I'll be sure to give you all some advance warning so we can
get together there.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Rocketeer <bparker@nmsu.edu>
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 19:27:56 -0300
Subject: Re: 1965 Body Tag Info...

> I have a '65 442 that recently has had some bodywork done to it.  For 
> some unknown reason,the body-guy removed the body tag (NOT the VIN, 
> thank God!) from the firewall, and lost it.  I have a picture of the 
> engine bay from before the work was done. Using my scanner at 2400dpi, 
> I have been able to scan the tag in, and almost make it readable (it's 
> a VERY smmall part of the picture) via image enhancement software.  
> 
> The following is what I THINK it says...
> 
> 
>      1RG
> ST   65-33837      LAN 7577   BODY
> TR   950-3         R-C        PAINT
>      0 825
>      4T
> 
> 

Man...do I feel for you, even if you find the original tag, you're going 
to have a tough time with convincing others that it is correct.

Going off the top of my head, I see three obvious errors.

The date code you have is 1RG, the "1" is  okay that indicates either
October ,November, or December as the build month (10, 11, 12 months)
it wouldn't be January because the first nine months used a leading 0.

The body style you have as 65-33837, if this is a convertible is should 
read 65-33867.

The third is the trim combination, I think it should read 950-B, if the 
car is equipped with bucket seats.

Good luck with the rest, hopefully someone with some notes, or a book can 
fill you in on the remaining part.
 

 
Boyd Parker (aka Rocketeer)            __|__
                                      |  |  |  Why drive just a car...
1966 4-speed Cutlass Convertible      |  |  |  when you can ride a rocket !
1970 4-4-2 Convertible                |  |  |
                                      | /|\ |
                                      |/ | \|
                                      |__|__|
                                         |

------------------------------

From: DELPROPO@emuvax.emich.edu
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 20:08:30 -0300
Subject: Re: 70 350 Carb info 

Thanks for the good information. The car is mainly used for shows but I do take
it to work depending on the wether . I am looking for a carb that is easy to
tune and will give better performance based on an all stock engin.

------------------------------

From: DELPROPO@emuvax.emich.edu
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 20:12:41 -0300
Subject: RE: 70 350 Carb info 

Well thats not what I had in mind, but I have tried it myself and it never
worked     that well

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 20:54:00 -0300
Subject: Holley Carbs 

I've run a vacuum secondary 780 Holley now for 9 years on my 455. I like
it, but if I could tune a qjet as well as I can (9 years of learning) 
tune a Holley, I believe I might stick with the stock solution.

As noted in a previous post, *why* is a good question. Here are my
pluses and minuses:

+1) Simple design. Well documented in SA-design books and articles 
galore. So I learned how to tune it. 

I tried to learn the qjet, but every change seemed to require pulling 
the airhorn whose gaskets would tear and you can't buy separate from a 
total rebuild kit.  At $13 a pop, this adds up much faster than $2 for 
holley gaskets. Especially for the novice tuner. Also I've had 2
fires with qjets which made me nervous. Be wary of the oldstyle
side gas inlet, if possible use one with the center gas inlet. Rebuider
fill the side inlet ones with freeze plugs which eventually leak gas
onto the intake. (this is bad...)

+2) Better performance at the cost of poorer gas mileage. When you
tromp on it, it really hauls even with 2.73 gears (in a 98...). I just
ran over to tahoe and back got 9.5 mpg going up the hill and about 10.5 
coming back down. Well o.k., I was doing 75-80 the whole way... 

- -1) Square bore is probably costing me fuel economy + possibly cylinder
evenness because of the adapter to meet the factory spreadbore manifold.

- -2) Every 2 years I do a charade with the state of CA that requires
me to reinstall the Qjet to pass smog tests. Basically it's 8 hours
or so of swap time to meet the regs. Then 4-5 hours putting stuff
back the way I like it.

It's kind of like the Mac/PC question. Either one will work fine for
most people, it just depends on which system you've learned. Since
the Holley knowledge was hard won and I like the performance, I don't
want to switch. If I had spent as much time learning the qjet, maybe
the ones I've used would work better.

Gory tuning details on my 780 cfm 3310:
1) Running on a ported and polished 455 at 9.5:1, exhausted through
factory dual manifolds with an H pipe, dual mufflers and resonators,
HEI ignition.
2) Electric choke
3) Front jets #73 , rear #76, plain vacuum secondary spring
4) Substituted a rear metering block for metering plate to improve
tuning flexibility

Hope this helps others out there engaged in this debate.
chris fair

------------------------------

From: STEE911@aol.com
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 21:00:27 -0300
Subject: Fwd: Smoke from tailpipes 

you can buy a tester for a water leak into the combustion chamber thru a
blown gasket cracked block or head==you can get one from NAPA auto parts or
snap on or matco == these work by detecting for combustion gasses in the
cooling system<<
this is very easy to do and costs about $10-$15==you didnt say if the oil had
any water in it or if the car overheated and lost a lot of warter==it sounds
to me like you have worn out valve oil seals<<you can replace these easily
without removing the heads using compressed air to hold up the valves and
remove the valve springs one at a time=="mushroom" type seals are available
for most any cars that orig had "o" ring type seals
- ---------------------
Forwarded message:
From:	kissrulz@gnn.com (Craig Dobbins)
Sender:	oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Reply-to:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
To:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Date: 96-08-05 13:09:42 EDT

Hello everyone,
  You may have heard from me in my many questions to this list, my name is 
Craig Dobbins, I live just outside of Buffalo, N.Y..  I am a new (3 months) 
owner of a '68 442 convertable.  I bought it from the original owner, have 
all the documentation, and all the #'s match.  Nothing has been done to this 
car except BASIC maintainance since his and his wife's purchase of the 
vehicle in 1968.  I'm just starting my restoration, and have another 
question.  I have white smoke coming from my two tailpipes during the first 
three or four minutes of start-up (if it sits for a day or so).  The smoke 
quits on one tailpipe a good minute or two before the other.  I've been told 
this could be a blown headgasket which is letting in moisture (water), which 
then burns off (I keep it garaged all the time, so it's not like moisture has

a chance to build up on the car).  I've also been told that this is because 
my valve seals are old and are letting oil into the compression chambers, 
which then burns off after start-up.  I've ALSO been told that I could 
possibly have a cracked block.  The car only has 65,750 original miles on it,

and is relitivly fresh for it's age.  They bought it when they were around 
40, and I don't think, really Hot Rodded it around a lot, which tends to lead

me away from the cracked block theory (no, I haven't done a compression check

yet).  Please, anybody, write back with any solutions to this problem.

                                                          Thank you,
                                                            Craig Dobbins

------------------------------

From: REGGIE GOBLE <REGGIE_GOBLE_4@wow.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 20:55:47 -0300
Subject: Reply to: Re: 69 toronado

Thanks Bill,
     the body on my 69 is in overall better than average shape. did that 
particular car still have front drive components? Thanks for the welcome and I 
had numerous responses from others about Toronados. I used to eat and sleep 
these
cars and don't mind going on that diet again. Time for a good hobby and can't 
beat good detroit steel. I want to get Cathy(my wife) into cruising the 
drive-ins
and catch up(back with the good ole days. 
later, Reggie

------------------------------

From: REGGIE GOBLE <REGGIE_GOBLE_4@wow.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 20:56:06 -0300
Subject: Reply to: Re: 69 toronado

Hey glad to be on any mini list, espically with Toronado interests. I just 
wish the production of the Toronado had not gone by the way. I love this kinda 
car because when you drove down the road you did own both lanes because thats
how big the hood looked to you. I used to push VW'S out of parking places
with my 66 to park closer to where I wanted to go.  No offense to Volkswagen 
owners. 
Thanks for the welcome
Reggie Goble
Stafford Virginia

------------------------------

From: REGGIE GOBLE <REGGIE_GOBLE_4@wow.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 20:55:55 -0300
Subject: Reply to: Re: Atlanta Bound

Hi,
What were the one liners from 66 Toro? New here so didn"t want to miss 
anything good. By the way who has a good to better rhan average 66 Toronado 
for sale. 
Reggie Goble
Stafford, Virginia

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 22:08:28 -0300
Subject: Carbs

While we're on the subject of carbs....
Some personal experiences:

Holley
Double pumpers are wholly unacceptible for street cars.  Out-of-the-box 
Holleys are pieces of crap.  At minimum you need a seconday metering 
block, a quick change secondary spring kit (unless you like hassling with 
the diaphragm all the time and inevitably destroying one or two), and 
depending on your cars power characteristics, jet extensions and bowl 
vent "whistles".  The standard Holley "fuel all over the place during jet 
changes" gets old after a while.  It is difficult to seal rubber Holley 
gaskets with quick-strip screws.  Speed blocks seem to be the Holley 
panacea, too bad they almost double the cost of the carb.  The 
center-pivot "Cathedral" bowls seem to work excellent for hard street 
driving, and the squarebore design certainly offers smoother power 
application.  WOT power does not seem to gain anything over any other 
carbs of similar flow ratings.  However getting a performance 800+CFM 
carb means getting a Holley.  Power valve diaphragms like to rip when 
encountering backfires unless the "power valve saver" is installed 
(another MUST).  Overall power curve is smoother, I assume this is 
because of the vacuum-operated secondary opening rather than air-valve 
type secondaries like in the Carter AFB and the Q-jet.  Holleys are 
definitely more "hot roddable" and modular than any other carb, you can 
change bowls, boosters, throttle plates, just about everything.  The 4010 
Holleys are designated lower performance but seem to have many attractive 
features.  They have Carter and Q-jet style lift-top jet changes for no 
fuel spillage, externally removable power valves, and jets in the bottom 
of the bowls (no need for jet extensions etc.) But you're stuck if you 
want to change float configuration or increase the bowl volume.  Holleys 
seem to have the best accelerator-pump design, using a disphragm instead 
of a plunger.

Carter AFB
The Carter AFB is an excellent street carb out-of-the-box.  It is more 
tuneable than a Holley without Speed Blocks, and is exceedingly simple in 
design.  I have run into problems under hard cornering with Carters that 
stumble as if the bowl are "running over" or something...but this doesn't 
happen with all Carters, it seems hit-or-miss (anyone have this 
problem?).  You don't have much of a selection of boosters, and the 
primary venturis are nonremovable.  In all there isn't much you can do to 
a Carter, but fortunately there is little you need to do.  Part throttle 
tuning, accomplished with a metering rod-in-jet setup is only possible in 
Holleys by modifying the metering block passages.  Carter rebuild kits 
are dirt cheap and dont require much knowledge beyond how to turn a 
screwdriver and a wrench.  Carters major downfall is lack of 
"upgrade-ability"...the only way to get an AFB setup with more than 
750CFM of flow is to use more than one.  However within its performance 
range, it will perform equally with the Holley with easier tuning.  Oh 
yeah, don't buy Edelbrock parts if you can find an equivalent Carter part.


Q-jets 
I have had only limited experience thus far with Qjets, though I am
about to run one on my new 455 so I should learn all its nuances pretty
quickly.  From what I can tell, both primary and secondary metering is
accomplished by rod-in-jet setups, which would make it the most accurate
of the three four barrel carbs listed.  Tuning Q-jets seems like the big
b*tch, being that you have to mess with the choke linkage (if you have
one) and the accelerator pump roll pin every time you change jets.  Don't
know about Carb Shop or other carb tuner shops' tuning parts but I would
suspect that for GM parts you can't find by pilfering other Qjets, you
have to bend over for "Geniune" stuff.  The airvalve "wrap" seems easier
to adjust than the Carter airvalve grind-weights-and-try-it approach (I
ended up with three different Carter airvalves, and they're 20 bucks each
for new ones).  The triple-venturi primaries seem to lend themselves well
to economy but power gets pretty mushy when using them.  Qjet's seem to
have good stability in corners, probably due to the central bowl, but the
bowl itself is rather small and this could become a concern for some. 

CV Carbs 
Dunno if that's the appropriate name for these carbs, which would
include two barrel side- or down-draft Mikunis, Dellortos, Webers, etc.
etc.  Haven't had any direct experience with these carbs on any of my
cars but from what I see and hear, these seem to be the "ultimate" carbs. 
Of these it seems Mikunis and Webers are favored because they are common
and parts are still available.  From what I hear, Dellorto carbs are very
hard to find parts for, though they are supposed to be the "best of the
best".  The advantage of these carbs seems to be in tunability.  Every
aspect of the fuel curve can be tailored with these carbs, you have jets
for air bleeds, fuel metering jets, emulsion tubes, accelerator pump jets,
venturis, etc.etc.  The only problem is coming up with enough money to get
a manifold to put these carbs on your V8, buy FOUR of them, and buy enough
jets and etc. to tune (each jet or tuning piece can run upwards of 5
dollars and there are LOTS to choose from).  Also, if running an IR setup,
you have to use much larger bores than a carb operating with a plenum
would need. 

There's definitely no "best" among these, all things considered.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 01:13:04 -0300
Subject: Re: Reply to: Re: Atlanta Bound

REGGIE GOBLE wrote:
> 
> What were the one liners from 66 Toro? 

Oh, stay tuned, Reggie.  I've been known 
to cough up a smart remark or two.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 18:11:04 -0300
Subject: Re: Reply to: Re: 69 toronado

REGGIE GOBLE wrote:
> 
> Thanks Bill,
>      the body on my 69 is in overall better than average shape. did that 
particular car still have front drive components? Thanks for the 
welcome a
> later, Reggie

Reggie:

The welcome was easy.  Good Olds people may be the saviors of the earth.

I only looked casually, but the owner said that he took the 455 out to 
put it in a standard large Olds.  I think that he meant that everything 
else was there.  I may be seeing it in another week or so as I am 
struggling to get a job in the area.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 18:18:23 -0300
Subject: Re: Reply to: Re: Atlanta Bound

Mike Frederick wrote:
> 
> REGGIE GOBLE wrote:
> >
> > What were the one liners from 66 Toro?
> 
> Oh, stay tuned, Reggie.  I've been known
> to cough up a smart remark or two.
> 
> The 66 Toro and Mike
> 
>
> 

Remark; maybe.  Smart; you be the judge.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 23:45:32 -0300
Subject: The Idiots Among Us.... (long)

This is not Olds-related (except in a general way) so I apologize in 
advance. But I am *so* p.o'd right now that I need to vent!

Some background... today is a civic holiday up here and finally after a 
horrible summer some good weather has arrived. This was the hottest day 
of the year so far and I took the convertible ('64 Skylark) out of the 
garage for the first time in a couple of weeks early this A.M. to 
participate in the parade they have here to mark the day. I got to drive 
one of our provincial (= state) cabinet members in the parade, what a 
thrill! ;-) Actually it was sort of fun and the only worry was whether it 
would overheat - it didn't, good car!

It was really a convertible sort of day, very mellow, so I spent the rest
of it tooling around and just enjoying the car and the weather. Tonight as
darkness was falling I was heading home. Got to an intersection with 2
lanes heading straight ahead. The left had 4 cars in it, the right was
empty so I took the right. At the red light in the left lane next to me
was a newish Jeep YJ (?) with a ragtop. A big beefy guy shaped like a
bowling ball driving, his wife, and a little girl about 10 in the back.
The light changes and I move out with alacrity... keep in mind that the
Buick, with its little 300-2v and slushbox, will *not* burn rubber even on
a good day. But it is quick enough so I moved out ahead of him. Suddenly I
hear an engine roar behind me to my left and it's him... OK, he wants to
have a little fun so I keep my foot in it and stay ahead of him until the
two lanes merge into one. No problem. But I notice as we drive that he's
tailgating and that really pisses me off anytime but especially when I'm
driving one of the old cars. 

Anyway he continues to do this but since we are now in a residential area
I don't think much of it and besides, what can he do? Eventually the road
opens up to multilane again. I'm exiting right so I get in the right lane.
He blows past me on the left but gets blocked by slower traffic.  I'm just
cruising along minding my own business and the traffic in the right lane
is moving faster so we pass him. As I pass he lays on the horn. I'm not
sure whether he's honking at me (can't figure out why) or at the slowpoke
in front of him. I continue towards my exit when all of a sudden this bozo
charges past me at maybe 50mph (in a 30 zone) - I assume he passed the
slow traffic on the right eventually - dives in front and has to stand on
the brakes to keep from rear-ending the cars in front. The little girl in
back is sitting sideways, not belted in, and I see her since the top is
opened up - she's holding on and looks terrified. 

Now he goes to the next intersection. I'm heading right. He's in the left
lane and when he gets to the exit he makes a lateral, the Jeep leans
dangerously, and cuts me off again! Now I can't believe what I'm seeing,
but I'm getting mad. It's bad enough that he has to act like an asshole,
but with the kid in the back he's not just putting himself at risk. OK, we
drive along for a few blocks, get to the next set of lights and I go to
take the right-turn lane. He's on my left about a half car-length ahead
and I'm glad to be rid of him. Then the jerk dives in front *again* and
this time I have to lock up the brakes. The kid's mouth is wide open and
she looks scared to death. I lay on the horn and am starting to wish I had
a cellphone in the car to report this idiot to the cops. He sits stopped
in front of me for about 10 seconds, waiting for me to react, before
tromping it and taking off again. I follow him down the street that leads
to my place. Another set of lights and I pull alongside. He's looking at
me with a stupid grin on his face. I yell something like "Do you always
drive like that, asshole?" (sorry, I was so angry I couldn't come up with
something brilliant). The light changes and I'm gone. 

He was in the left turn lane but ignores that and starts chasing me. We 
get to the next set of lights and he's right behind me. I expect him to 
try rear-ending me and find myself wishing I had a lug wrench under the 
seat or some other device handy in case he does. Thru that set of lights 
and he's still following, then another, still tailgating. Finally I make 
the turn into my driveway and he blows past yelling something like "why 
don't you get a real car" or some such nicety. 

This di**head ruined an otherwise lovely day. To make matters worse, I
forgot to get a plate # to report him to the cops, though they probably
couldn't do anything. The Buick is not a hot rod by any means, and when I
drive it I cruise sedately most of the time. This sort of thing is just
not something I do anytime, let alone when I'm driving that car which I
baby and try to protect from harm whenever I can. I wished I had a beater
when this clown started his antics because I might have Earnhardt'ed him,
I was that mad. Tempted to say that I hope he got home OK, but really that
only applies to the kid. The world could do without idiots like this.
Maybe a one-car accident when he's driving alone will solve that problem
someday. Those Jeeps are awfully unstable, I hear... 

Have a *nice* day!

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: "jon e. anderson" <c626372@showme.missouri.edu>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 00:35:53 -0300
Subject: body parts for 1979 oldsmobile delta 88 royale

I have a 1979 oldsmobile delta 88 royale (4 door).  I am in need of a 
drivers side front fender and front door.  My car was involved in an 
accident, and the body shop of a local dealer has not been able to 
locate either of the above two items through their normal channels.  If 
anyone can help me, let me know!

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 00:33:32 -0300
Subject: Re: T-Tops Weather seals 84  hurst olds 

At 11:33 PM 8/4/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>Anyone out there have suggestions on temporary fixes for 
>>repairing leaking T-top seals.  I went to the dealer but $150 per sid 
>>ewas a little steep just for a few stips of rubber.  
[SNIP]
>$150 a side, ouch).  The big problem here is that these cars really
>weren't made to have two big holes cut in the roof - the frame will flex
>a lot and generally cause the tops to come out of adjustment and warp. 
>I'm currently looking into subframe connectors, recommended by a friend
>with a convertible Must*ng.  He says that properly placed & welded
>pieces of metal can significantly stiffen the frame and reduce flex. 
>This is a major concern of mine, as the aforementioned '85 is getting a
>warmed-over 350 fairly soon.  
>
>Incidentally, anyone know of a supplier for subframe connectors for
>'78-'88 Cutlasses (G-bodies)?  Anyone got the number for "Just
>Suspensions?"

Granted, the A- and G-bodies from that generation didn't have the equivalent
of convertible frames, but they probably had some idea that they were going
to be putting big gaping holes in the roofs; Olds had been doing that for
years when the '78's were on the drawing boards, and I believe they were
options early on in that model run.

About subframe connectors on your Cutlass... Uh, you've already got some in
there. All GM rwd intermediate A-body and G-body cars were full-frame cars,
not unibody-with-subframe cars. Of course, you can box and strengthen the
stock frame, or replace it altogether, or add a rollcage to reduce flex.

Those year cars are *really* flexible, however, due to the
downsizing/lightening. My downsized rwd Electra flexes like a cooked lasagna
noodle. Plus, most Cutlasses experienced frame rust, so the steel used was
probably not top-grade either.

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 00:41:15 -0300
Subject: 1980 442 W-30 price??? 

Tomorrow I am going to go take a closer look at a 1980 442 W-30 that I saw
on a local used car lot. There was no price on it. Interior wise thecar is
in great shape, minor wear. The car looks freshly painted, but with a small
dent in the front fender. The frame is beginning to show wear, alot of
surface rust. I know that 1980 frames go bad. We have had 3 in the towyard
break at the rear 1/3 due to rust when picked up with a forklift. There are
no t-tops, has a/c, buckets, guages, console, hurst gold interior, white
with gold striping and W-30 logos on the front fender edge and 442 emblems
on the rear of the front fenders near the door. It has the Rocket 350.  What
is this car worth? What should I offer? I am going with the intention of
offering my 88 Z/28 and $1000 for it....tops. I can't find any prices
anywhere to help me judge. Thanks and could you all reply by Wed at noon, I
am leaving then to see it....ok pretty please:):):)

Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com)
1988 Camaro IROC-Z/28...the rebuilt salvage car.... 
(an 82 Z/28 in the body of an 88 IROC with 92 Z/28 ground effects)
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25....H/OCA #0278A

------------------------------

From: spud@kudonet.com (Spud)
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 00:46:11 -0300
Subject: Re: Fwd: 1968 400 C.I. engine

STEE911@aol.com WROTE:

>if the engine is indeed original you definatly need to have the heads
>reworked so you can have hardened valve seats installed

I'm not so certain about this.  When I went to have the heads done on my '73
Delta 88, I asked several people about the valve guides.  I was told by
everyone that had a knowlegeable answer, that GM used hardened valve guides
in all their engines since sometime in the mid- to late fifties.  So?  Not so?

Spud
'86 FXST
'73 Delta 88
'79 LeBaron

------------------------------

From: Bob Valentine <ravalent@liii.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 00:41:01 -0300
Subject: Re: Legislation

On Fri, 2 Aug 1996, Chris Fair wrote:

> you have to keep the original smog equipment on the vehicle. Thanks 
> Sacramento and of course cop, state and probably legislators cars are 
> exempt. God forbid that government might have to live by the rules 
> they impose on the rest of us. 

     Oh yes, and god forbid that there are any regulations passed on 
diesel trucks.  Your car might not pass emissions, but a 10-ton 
truck or city transit bus belching soot doesn't even have to blink.

     Burden cars with inefficient "emissions control" systems, but a 
catalyst or soot trap on a truck?   Horrors!

> I wonder if the car would pass the test in that form. But of course it
> wouldn't pass the visual inspection, so on goes the charade. 

    I've yet to get snagged on a visual, but I still think it's funny 
that my '71 CS with a 200k+ 350 passes cleaner than my "emissions 

> (stepping of the soapbox)
> chris fair

   Ditto me.

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                    --> ravalent@liii.com  <--
        "Experience varies directly with equipment ruined"

------------------------------

From: spud@kudonet.com (Spud)
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 00:46:42 -0300
Subject: RE: Legislation 

>They canceled emissions testing in NH because it was deemed
unconstitutional, Live free or Die.
>
>----------
>From: 	Mike Frederick[SMTP:edison3@cpeq.com]


Spread some of that goodness out West, Mike.

Spud
'86 FXST
'73 Delta 88
'79 LeBaron

------------------------------

From: Bob Valentine <ravalent@liii.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 01:14:16 -0300
Subject: Re: Carbs

On Mon, 5 Aug 1996, Paul R. K. Kuromoto wrote:

> While we're on the subject of carbs....
> Some personal experiences:

   I'll throw in mine on the 4010 series:

> change bowls, boosters, throttle plates, just about everything.  The 4010 
> Holleys are designated lower performance but seem to have many attractive 
> features.  

> They have Carter and Q-jet style lift-top jet changes for no fuel spillage,

   True, but the entire choke assembly must be removed, unless you 
convert the linkage to one which uses e-clips.   Pain in the ass.

> externally removable power valves

   Not unless you have the carb mounted on, say, a 4" spacer.   There is 
a cover over the PV held on with 4 screws.   There's also no provision 
for the aformentioned "PV saver".   If you have a spread-bore (4011), you get
to have 2 PV's.

> and jets in the bottom of the bowls (no need for jet extensions etc.) 

   True, and they are standard Holley jets.

> But you're stuck if you want to change float configuration or increase 
> the bowl volume. 

   They're already center hung, but all are dual-feed.   They also retain 
the seperate fuel bowls, so unless you stomp it regularly the 
secondaries gum up.   

> Holleys seem to have the best accelerator-pump design, using a disphragm 
> instead of a plunger.

   Agreed, but the 4010/4011 series is known for sucking fuel out of the 
pump if a anti-pullover nozzle is not used.  Drove me crazy until I found 
this out.  

   Mine also has a incessant heat-soak problems.  Why do I use it?   It's 
on a 318 in a '88 Ex-cop Grand Fury, and it was the only spread-bore I 
had laying around....  Can't use a square bore since I can't put a spacer 
under the carb.   Also don't feel like playing with a Q-jet on this.  

> Carter AFB
> The Carter AFB is an excellent street carb out-of-the-box.  

    Yep, it's only lacking point is tuneability on the secondary 
opening point.  Of course, a AVS will help there.   ;^)

> Q-jets 
> I have had only limited experience thus far with Qjets, though I am
> about to run one on my new 455 so I should learn all its nuances pretty
> quickly.  From what I can tell, both primary and secondary metering is

    Once they're tuned, they're great.  Until then, they're a pain.  I'd 
suggest Doug Roe's book on them, as he at least lists lots of the little 
things you'd never know, like the different lengths of primary rods and 
what model numbers they correlate to.  ;^)

> There's definitely no "best" among these, all things considered.

    Couldn't have said it better.  

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                    --> ravalent@liii.com  <--
        "Experience varies directly with equipment ruined"

------------------------------

From: Graham Stewart <graham.stewart@utoronto.ca>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 04:12:54 -0300
Subject: Re: The Idiots Among Us.... (long)

On Mon, 5 Aug 1996 22:45:32 -0400 Greg Beaulieu wrote:

 
> This is not Olds-related (except in a general way) so I apologize in 
> advance. But I am *so* p.o'd right now that I need to vent!
 
Hey Greg:  lousy day.  It's amazing how much people can ruin your day with 
their 
stupidity behind the wheel.   It's one thing to have a bit of fun; another to 
play the 
kind of games this guy was, especially with kids around.

Your story sounds more like the kind of stuff I see in Toronto: too many 
idiots with 
too much money to spend on expensive, powerful (supposedly) cars.  This 
reminds 
me a bit of 2 years back ... I turn right onto a residential street full of 
four way 
stops.  I usually try to at least look like I'm stopping as pedestrians are a 
lot softer 
than 5000 pounds of steel.  But this wasn't good enough for the Nissan driver 
behind me who starts honking after the briefest pause at each stop.  After 
about 
three intersections like this (honking, high-beams), I pull over figgering 
maybe his 
wife's giving birth or something.  He roars by and sails through the next 
four-way, 
only to be stopped by a cop who happened by the opposite direction.  "Well, 
occasionally there is satisfaction in life", I thought, as I waved goodbye to 
him.

Take care ...
Graham Stewart
graham.stewart@utoronto.ca

------------------------------

From: idaholc@primenet.com (William Goodnight)
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 01:24:09 -0300
Subject: Re: The Idiots Among Us.... (long) 

According to your story, the Jeep isn't the only thing unstable!

At 11:45 PM 8/5/96 -0300, oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca wrote:
>
>This is not Olds-related (except in a general way) so I apologize in 
>advance. But I am *so* p.o'd right now that I need to vent!
>
>Some background... today is a civic holiday up here and finally after a 
>horrible summer some good weather has arrived. This was the hottest day 
>of the year so far and I took the convertible ('64 Skylark) out of the 
>garage for the first time in a couple of weeks early this A.M. to 
>participate in the parade they have here to mark the day. I got to drive 
>one of our provincial (= state) cabinet members in the parade, what a 
>thrill! ;-) Actually it was sort of fun and the only worry was whether it 
>would overheat - it didn't, good car!
>
>It was really a convertible sort of day, very mellow, so I spent the rest
>of it tooling around and just enjoying the car and the weather. Tonight as
>darkness was falling I was heading home. Got to an intersection with 2
>lanes heading straight ahead. The left had 4 cars in it, the right was
>empty so I took the right. At the red light in the left lane next to me
>was a newish Jeep YJ (?) with a ragtop. A big beefy guy shaped like a
>bowling ball driving, his wife, and a little girl about 10 in the back.
>The light changes and I move out with alacrity... keep in mind that the
>Buick, with its little 300-2v and slushbox, will *not* burn rubber even on
>a good day. But it is quick enough so I moved out ahead of him. Suddenly I
>hear an engine roar behind me to my left and it's him... OK, he wants to
>have a little fun so I keep my foot in it and stay ahead of him until the
>two lanes merge into one. No problem. But I notice as we drive that he's
>tailgating and that really pisses me off anytime but especially when I'm
>driving one of the old cars. 
>
>Anyway he continues to do this but since we are now in a residential area
>I don't think much of it and besides, what can he do? Eventually the road
>opens up to multilane again. I'm exiting right so I get in the right lane.
>He blows past me on the left but gets blocked by slower traffic.  I'm just
>cruising along minding my own business and the traffic in the right lane
>is moving faster so we pass him. As I pass he lays on the horn. I'm not
>sure whether he's honking at me (can't figure out why) or at the slowpoke
>in front of him. I continue towards my exit when all of a sudden this bozo
>charges past me at maybe 50mph (in a 30 zone) - I assume he passed the
>slow traffic on the right eventually - dives in front and has to stand on
>the brakes to keep from rear-ending the cars in front. The little girl in
>back is sitting sideways, not belted in, and I see her since the top is
>opened up - she's holding on and looks terrified. 
>
>Now he goes to the next intersection. I'm heading right. He's in the left
>lane and when he gets to the exit he makes a lateral, the Jeep leans
>dangerously, and cuts me off again! Now I can't believe what I'm seeing,
>but I'm getting mad. It's bad enough that he has to act like an asshole,
>but with the kid in the back he's not just putting himself at risk. OK, we
>drive along for a few blocks, get to the next set of lights and I go to
>take the right-turn lane. He's on my left about a half car-length ahead
>and I'm glad to be rid of him. Then the jerk dives in front *again* and
>this time I have to lock up the brakes. The kid's mouth is wide open and
>she looks scared to death. I lay on the horn and am starting to wish I had
>a cellphone in the car to report this idiot to the cops. He sits stopped
>in front of me for about 10 seconds, waiting for me to react, before
>tromping it and taking off again. I follow him down the street that leads
>to my place. Another set of lights and I pull alongside. He's looking at
>me with a stupid grin on his face. I yell something like "Do you always
>drive like that, asshole?" (sorry, I was so angry I couldn't come up with
>something brilliant). The light changes and I'm gone. 
>
>He was in the left turn lane but ignores that and starts chasing me. We 
>get to the next set of lights and he's right behind me. I expect him to 
>try rear-ending me and find myself wishing I had a lug wrench under the 
>seat or some other device handy in case he does. Thru that set of lights 
>and he's still following, then another, still tailgating. Finally I make 
>the turn into my driveway and he blows past yelling something like "why 
>don't you get a real car" or some such nicety. 
>
>This di**head ruined an otherwise lovely day. To make matters worse, I
>forgot to get a plate # to report him to the cops, though they probably
>couldn't do anything. The Buick is not a hot rod by any means, and when I
>drive it I cruise sedately most of the time. This sort of thing is just
>not something I do anytime, let alone when I'm driving that car which I
>baby and try to protect from harm whenever I can. I wished I had a beater
>when this clown started his antics because I might have Earnhardt'ed him,
>I was that mad. Tempted to say that I hope he got home OK, but really that
>only applies to the kid. The world could do without idiots like this.
>Maybe a one-car accident when he's driving alone will solve that problem
>someday. Those Jeeps are awfully unstable, I hear... 
>
>Have a *nice* day!
>
>Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
>
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 02:35:30 -0300
Subject: Re: QJet- How I converted from a 4-bbl to a 2-bbl... :( 

Does anyone know if this spring is replaceable? I've got another parts carb
that has the same problem (no, I didn't do that one). I don't want to spend
$300 for someone else to rebuild it just to replace that spring (this
buildup is already way Way WAY _WAAAAY_ overbudget!).

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)


Bob,

          I've probably got one or two scrap Q-jets lying around,
          including the entire top plate, if necessary.  Please email
          me directly for more info.  (Note, I'm leaving for South
          Korea in the morning, so you may not get an immediate
          response.  Currently plan to be gone for a week).

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 02:51:01 -0300
Subject: Resto Tips... 

Here are a few that I've learned over the years (some are just common-sense
things that only took about 15 years for me to figure out...):

* Keep Clean! Why? To keep your hand from slipping off that wrench into that
factory-installed sharp edge, to keep your shiny new parts looking shiny and
new, so you can answer the phone, etc... How, you say? _Waterless_
hand-cleaner and a roll of paper towels. I use a Gunk product with Lanolin
that sells for all of $.99 for a small tub. I don't know why this took so
long to sink in with me...

* Acetone makes a great parts cleaner/water displacer, after you've
degreased some parts and now want to paint them. (just watch the fumes!)

* Label all wires and hoses you remove with masking tape and a *permanent*
marker, and put a piece of Scotch Tape over the writing if the wires will be
exposed to the weather. Don't ask how I know that rain washes regular ink
off of masking tape used to label engine wires when your hood is left off.

* Buy another. Any single container of solvent or paint will be just enough
to do 90% of the job.

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 02:53:20 -0300
Subject: Re: QJet- How I converted from a 4-bbl to a 2-bbl... :( 

At 01:35 AM 8/6/96 -0400, you wrote:
>
>Does anyone know if this spring is replaceable? I've got another parts carb
[snip]
>          I've probably got one or two scrap Q-jets lying around,
>          including the entire top plate, if necessary.  Please email
>          me directly for more info.  (Note, I'm leaving for South
>          Korea in the morning, so you may not get an immediate

Thanks, but I've got a couple scrap/parts carbs around as well. I'd really
like to find a way to fix this type of thing.

Enjoy the trip!

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: Esko.Ilola@Tele.telebox.fi
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 04:11:09 -0300
Subject: Smoke from tailpipes

Item Subject: Sanoman teksti
> Hello everyone,
>   You may have heard from me in my many questions to this list, my name is 
> Craig Dobbins, I live just outside of Buffalo, N.Y..  I am a new (3 months) 
> ...........

It is all OK that there builds up some 'smoke' when you start up your vechile.

The reasons for rhis 'smoke' build-up are one of the following:

- - normal humidity condensed inside your exhaust pipe vaporizing soon after
  you start up (most likely this)

- - some of the exhaust valves leaking oil into exhaust system causing smoke
  especially in the start-up and after a prolonged idle. Because the oil
  enters into cylinder before going into exhaust pipe, the resulting smoke
  will be merely blue, not white. I think this is not your case.

If there is a way for the coolant fluid to enter the exhaust system, it
could cause the symptom you described. Smelling the 'smoke' tells you soon
the origin of it. If you are using glycol based coolant fluid (here in
Finland we mus because the cool climate), you can't miss.

Sincerely Esko Ilola <esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi>

Ninety Eight 1964 4DHT (Smoking in the mornings too....)

------------------------------

From: mike.blankenship@medaphis.com
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 00:50:23 -0300
Subject: No emails

No emails in 10 hours, everybody must be coming to Hotlanta!!!!!

------------------------------

From: Joanne Beausoleil <jbeausol@ftp.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 08:52:32 -0300
Subject: RE: The Idiots Among Us.... (long)

He shouldn't be allowed to reproduce cause the apple don't fall far from the 
tree...

- ----------
From: 	Greg Beaulieu[SMTP:ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca]
Sent: 	Monday, August 05, 1996 10:45 PM
To: 	Oldsmobile
Subject: 	The Idiots Among Us.... (long)


This is not Olds-related (except in a general way) so I apologize in 
advance. But I am *so* p.o'd right now that I need to vent!

Some background... today is a civic holiday up here and finally after a 
horrible summer some good weather has arrived. This was the hottest day 
of the year so far and I took the convertible ('64 Skylark) out of the 
garage for the first time in a couple of weeks early this A.M. to 
participate in the parade they have here to mark the day. I got to drive 
one of our provincial (= state) cabinet members in the parade, what a 
thrill! ;-) Actually it was sort of fun and the only worry was whether it 
would overheat - it didn't, good car!

It was really a convertible sort of day, very mellow, so I spent the rest
of it tooling around and just enjoying the car and the weather. Tonight as
darkness was falling I was heading home. Got to an intersection with 2
lanes heading straight ahead. The left had 4 cars in it, the right was
empty so I took the right. At the red light in the left lane next to me
was a newish Jeep YJ (?) with a ragtop. A big beefy guy shaped like a
bowling ball driving, his wife, and a little girl about 10 in the back.
The light changes and I move out with alacrity... keep in mind that the
Buick, with its little 300-2v and slushbox, will *not* burn rubber even on
a good day. But it is quick enough so I moved out ahead of him. Suddenly I
hear an engine roar behind me to my left and it's him... OK, he wants to
have a little fun so I keep my foot in it and stay ahead of him until the
two lanes merge into one. No problem. But I notice as we drive that he's
tailgating and that really pisses me off anytime but especially when I'm
driving one of the old cars. 

Anyway he continues to do this but since we are now in a residential area
I don't think much of it and besides, what can he do? Eventually the road
opens up to multilane again. I'm exiting right so I get in the right lane.
He blows past me on the left but gets blocked by slower traffic.  I'm just
cruising along minding my own business and the traffic in the right lane
is moving faster so we pass him. As I pass he lays on the horn. I'm not
sure whether he's honking at me (can't figure out why) or at the slowpoke
in front of him. I continue towards my exit when all of a sudden this bozo
charges past me at maybe 50mph (in a 30 zone) - I assume he passed the
slow traffic on the right eventually - dives in front and has to stand on
the brakes to keep from rear-ending the cars in front. The little girl in
back is sitting sideways, not belted in, and I see her since the top is
opened up - she's holding on and looks terrified. 

Now he goes to the next intersection. I'm heading right. He's in the left
lane and when he gets to the exit he makes a lateral, the Jeep leans
dangerously, and cuts me off again! Now I can't believe what I'm seeing,
but I'm getting mad. It's bad enough that he has to act like an asshole,
but with the kid in the back he's not just putting himself at risk. OK, we
drive along for a few blocks, get to the next set of lights and I go to
take the right-turn lane. He's on my left about a half car-length ahead
and I'm glad to be rid of him. Then the jerk dives in front *again* and
this time I have to lock up the brakes. The kid's mouth is wide open and
she looks scared to death. I lay on the horn and am starting to wish I had
a cellphone in the car to report this idiot to the cops. He sits stopped
in front of me for about 10 seconds, waiting for me to react, before
tromping it and taking off again. I follow him down the street that leads
to my place. Another set of lights and I pull alongside. He's looking at
me with a stupid grin on his face. I yell something like "Do you always
drive like that, asshole?" (sorry, I was so angry I couldn't come up with
something brilliant). The light changes and I'm gone. 

He was in the left turn lane but ignores that and starts chasing me. We 
get to the next set of lights and he's right behind me. I expect him to 
try rear-ending me and find myself wishing I had a lug wrench under the 
seat or some other device handy in case he does. Thru that set of lights 
and he's still following, then another, still tailgating. Finally I make 
the turn into my driveway and he blows past yelling something like "why 
don't you get a real car" or some such nicety. 

This di**head ruined an otherwise lovely day. To make matters worse, I
forgot to get a plate # to report him to the cops, though they probably
couldn't do anything. The Buick is not a hot rod by any means, and when I
drive it I cruise sedately most of the time. This sort of thing is just
not something I do anytime, let alone when I'm driving that car which I
baby and try to protect from harm whenever I can. I wished I had a beater
when this clown started his antics because I might have Earnhardt'ed him,
I was that mad. Tempted to say that I hope he got home OK, but really that
only applies to the kid. The world could do without idiots like this.
Maybe a one-car accident when he's driving alone will solve that problem
someday. Those Jeeps are awfully unstable, I hear... 

Have a *nice* day!

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Willie Fruean <aceface@ohana.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 08:47:19 -0300
Subject: Re: J-2 intake

On Sat, 3 Aug 1996, Ken wrote:

> X-Mozilla-Status: 0001
> Message-ID: <3203F287.45F4@coil.com>
> Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 20:44:55 -0400
> From: Ken <rottin@coil.com>
> Organization: K&D Holland Trucking
> X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02Gold (Win95; I)
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> To: oldsmobile@cnn.cs.dal.ca
> Subject: J-2 intake
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> 
> A friend of mine has a J-2 Tri power setup off a 1957 Olds 394.
> He also has a 6 1-barrel stromberg setup for the same motor.  He 
> has offered to let me borrow either setup (wont sell them). The question 
> is will either of these 394 setups bolt directly to a 67 425.  If the 
> manifolds are smaller could am aluminum plate be machined as a spacer to 
> match the ports <my father is a machinist :) >  and if so would it run 
> worth a darn?  
> 
> Ken
> Cleveland, Ohio
> 1967 442 Convertible
> 
Dear Ken

   First of all, all J-2 engines were 371's. There's no way you will get 
that intake manifold on a '67 425. You are better off finding an 
after-market manifold and attach three twos or even two fours!

Willie
'57 Olds Super 88> 

------------------------------

From: Richard Bonazzoli <bonazzoli@5onflr.ENET.dec.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 08:51:04 -0300
Subject: RE: Legislation 

The problem may have been that a great many people did not know
about this meeting.  I live only 20 minutes from Worcester MA, but
I never heard anything about this meeting taking place.

Rich

------------------------------

From: Esko.Ilola@Tele.telebox.fi
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 09:53:20 -0300
Subject: RE: The Idiots Among Us.... (long)

Item Subject: Sanoman teksti
Hmmmmmm......
I think that we all have this kind of stories to tell. For some unknown reason
a sight of a well-kept 50-60-70 vintage car wakes up the idiot in (us).

I think that the situation here in Finland is much worse as we have a great
deal of peaple driving Saab's Lada's Toyotas and other VERY small cars.

For my opinion the BMW-drivers are the worst of all. Propably those BMW:s are
so handy that it is FUN to irritate.

It's sad that these maniacs can convert a beautiful sunny day into pure hell
and do that without even getting caught.

The best thing to do (I suppose) is to ignore those vegetables totally. Anyway,
what can we do.

------------------------------

From: Frank Boerger <103454.317@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 10:10:22 -0300
Subject: Directions to Atlanta Show

I plan on attending the OCA show in Atlanta...be there Fri/Sat.

After I drive north about 265  miles, where is the show ?  I seem to have
misplaced my directions.

Thanks much !

Frank Boerger
'68 Convertible/68 coupe parts car
"Now covering at least 2 acres east of Tallahassee, FL "

------------------------------

From: Michael Brady <drolds19@mail.idt.net>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 12:30:58 -0300
Subject: Re: The Idiots Among Us.... (long)

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
> 
> This is not Olds-related (except in a general way) so I apologize in
> advance. But I am *so* p.o'd right now that I need to vent!
> 
> Some background... today is a civic holiday up here and finally after a
> horrible summer some good weather has arrived. This was the hottest day
> of the year so far and I took the convertible ('64 Skylark) out of the
> garage for the first time in a couple of weeks early this A.M. to
> participate in the parade they have here to mark the day. I got to drive
> one of our provincial (= state) cabinet members in the parade, what a
> thrill! ;-) Actually it was sort of fun and the only worry was whether it
> would overheat - it didn't, good car!
> 
> It was really a convertible sort of day, very mellow, so I spent the rest
> of it tooling around and just enjoying the car and the weather. Tonight as
> darkness was falling I was heading home. Got to an intersection with 2
> lanes heading straight ahead. The left had 4 cars in it, the right was
> empty so I took the right. At the red light in the left lane next to me
> was a newish Jeep YJ (?) with a ragtop. A big beefy guy shaped like a
> bowling ball driving, his wife, and a little girl about 10 in the back.
> The light changes and I move out with alacrity... keep in mind that the
> Buick, with its little 300-2v and slushbox, will *not* burn rubber even on
> a good day. But it is quick enough so I moved out ahead of him. Suddenly I
> hear an engine roar behind me to my left and it's him... OK, he wants to
> have a little fun so I keep my foot in it and stay ahead of him until the
> two lanes merge into one. No problem. But I notice as we drive that he's
> tailgating and that really pisses me off anytime but especially when I'm
> driving one of the old cars.
> 
> Anyway he continues to do this but since we are now in a residential area
> I don't think much of it and besides, what can he do? Eventually the road
> opens up to multilane again. I'm exiting right so I get in the right lane.
> He blows past me on the left but gets blocked by slower traffic.  I'm just
> cruising along minding my own business and the traffic in the right lane
> is moving faster so we pass him. As I pass he lays on the horn. I'm not
> sure whether he's honking at me (can't figure out why) or at the slowpoke
> in front of him. I continue towards my exit when all of a sudden this bozo
> charges past me at maybe 50mph (in a 30 zone) - I assume he passed the
> slow traffic on the right eventually - dives in front and has to stand on
> the brakes to keep from rear-ending the cars in front. The little girl in
> back is sitting sideways, not belted in, and I see her since the top is
> opened up - she's holding on and looks terrified.
> 
> Now he goes to the next intersection. I'm heading right. He's in the left
> lane and when he gets to the exit he makes a lateral, the Jeep leans
> dangerously, and cuts me off again! Now I can't believe what I'm seeing,
> but I'm getting mad. It's bad enough that he has to act like an asshole,
> but with the kid in the back he's not just putting himself at risk. OK, we
> drive along for a few blocks, get to the next set of lights and I go to
> take the right-turn lane. He's on my left about a half car-length ahead
> and I'm glad to be rid of him. Then the jerk dives in front *again* and
> this time I have to lock up the brakes. The kid's mouth is wide open and
> she looks scared to death. I lay on the horn and am starting to wish I had
> a cellphone in the car to report this idiot to the cops. He sits stopped
> in front of me for about 10 seconds, waiting for me to react, before
> tromping it and taking off again. I follow him down the street that leads
> to my place. Another set of lights and I pull alongside. He's looking at
> me with a stupid grin on his face. I yell something like "Do you always
> drive like that, asshole?" (sorry, I was so angry I couldn't come up with
> something brilliant). The light changes and I'm gone.
> 
> He was in the left turn lane but ignores that and starts chasing me. We
> get to the next set of lights and he's right behind me. I expect him to
> try rear-ending me and find myself wishing I had a lug wrench under the
> seat or some other device handy in case he does. Thru that set of lights
> and he's still following, then another, still tailgating. Finally I make
> the turn into my driveway and he blows past yelling something like "why
> don't you get a real car" or some such nicety.
> 
> This di**head ruined an otherwise lovely day. To make matters worse, I
> forgot to get a plate # to report him to the cops, though they probably
> couldn't do anything. The Buick is not a hot rod by any means, and when I
> drive it I cruise sedately most of the time. This sort of thing is just
> not something I do anytime, let alone when I'm driving that car which I
> baby and try to protect from harm whenever I can. I wished I had a beater
> when this clown started his antics because I might have Earnhardt'ed him,
> I was that mad. Tempted to say that I hope he got home OK, but really that
> only applies to the kid. The world could do without idiots like this.
> Maybe a one-car accident when he's driving alone will solve that problem
> someday. Those Jeeps are awfully unstable, I hear...
> 
> Have a *nice* day!
> 
> Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Wow!!! I have had situations like this happen to me also, and that's why
 i won't carry a gun in the car because i just may use it with someone
 that stupid!!!

Mike Brady 69 4-4-2

------------------------------

From: JJF97@uno.cc.geneseo.edu
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 11:16:15 -0300
Subject: Resto  Tips  .....

Here's a way to reduce the amount of dust that collects on the body of a
car....

A car that is charged with static electricity attracts dust like a magnet.
use a chain long enough to touch the ground after it is wrapped around the 
axil;  it will ground the electrical charge that causes dust to adhere to the
body.  This should be done after all the sanding and priming is complete, but
just before the final rubdown with a tack cloth.  You'll find that it really
improves a paint job, especially if you paint in a garage like many
do-it-yourselfers.



Resto Corner

- -joe ferrero

------------------------------

From: John Harris <John.Harris@rttc.redstone.army.mil>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 10:42:30 -0300
Subject: 3.91 gears for 69 442

Folks

Please enlighten me with your knowledge of 12 bolt Type "O"
differentials.  I want some 3.91's.  

Right now I have 3.42 to 1 and the factory 14X6 SSII wheels.  When I get
wider rear tires they will most likely be on 15 inch wheels.  I figure
the 3.91s will help out.  I only drive this car about once a week. I
don't expect 3.91s to be a problem.

John Harris 
69 442

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 11:11:07 -0300
Subject: Re: Fwd: Smoke from tailpipes

Another possibility for white smoke from the tailpipe is transmission 
fluid being drawn into the intake manifold due to a leaking vacuum 
modulator.  Check your transmission fluid level.



Dan Gulino

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 10:09:37 -0300
Subject: Re: The Idiots Among Us.... (long) 

. [...] Then the jerk dives in front *again* and
>this time I have to lock up the brakes. The kid's mouth is wide open and
>she looks scared to death. [...]

Okay, this is the point where I will pick up the cellphone and call the
cops. There are a number of things they'll be able to chat about with him
when they catch up to him, and until they do I'll just follow along at a
safe distance, just close enough to keep him in sight. This is the sort of
thing that makes paying a few bucks a month for a phone worthwhile.

Sorry about not reposting the whole damn article all over again, BTW;
I dunno what came over me...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 11:21:15 -0300
Subject: Re: body parts for 1979 oldsmobile delta 88 royale

On Tue, 6 Aug 1996, jon e. anderson wrote:

> I have a 1979 oldsmobile delta 88 royale (4 door).  I am in need of a 
> drivers side front fender and front door.  My car was involved in an 
> accident, and the body shop of a local dealer has not been able to 
> locate either of the above two items through their normal channels.  If 
> anyone can help me, let me know!
> 
> 
Try either Larry Camuso at West Coast Sheetmetal at (408) 286-6537, 
located in San Jose, Calif., or Hall's Oldsmobile Salvage at (913) 
924-3315, located in Soldier, Kansas.  I'd try Camuso first.  I wouldn't 
think this would be very hard to find.  I don't think your body shop is 
trying very hard.  :)


Dan Gulino

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 20:33:05 -0300
Subject: Re: The Idiots Among Us.... (long)

Sorry to hearthat Greg,
	Here in Toronto, especially the highways you can call a special number 
to report idot drivers. Only 
problem I don't have a cell phone. I've had a few of those experiences before 
but very few where idots like this 
actual mean to be complete a**holes. Most of the time you have to put up with 
it and reasure yourself that they 
don't mean to be this way, and that we all just want to be on our way. 
Although this one is an exception.

Hey Graham..what are you taking at UofT, I graduated in '92 Bsc? What car are 
you driving?



> Graham Stewart
> graham.stewart@utoronto.ca

- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 14:26:25 -0300
Subject: Re: Reply to: Re: Atlanta Bound

Lloyd Culp wrote:
>
> Remark; maybe.  Smart; you be the judge.
> 
> Bill Culp
> Decatur, Alabama

My first wife lives in Alabama, Bill.  
I think I'll send her your address.   :o

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 20:35:42 -0300
Subject: Re: 70 350 Carb info

JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com wrote:
> ... 
>           Holley makes spread-bore (ie, Q-Jet replacement) carbs which
>           will bolt on.  Otherwise, the normal "square" Holley carbs
>           will require an adapter, with the result that the added
>           restriction of the adapter will negate any advantage of the
>           new carb.
> 

Actually Joe, I heard that the adapter plate causes better top-end performance 
by rasing the carb you achieve more tunnelling 
effect. Although I neverhave tested this with my Holley.
- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 10:44:25 -0300
Subject: Re: Reply to: Re: Atlanta Bound 

>> What were the one liners from 66 Toro? 
>
>Oh, stay tuned, Reggie.  I've been known 
>to cough up a smart remark or two.
>
>The 66 Toro and Mike

Absolutely. Mike coughs up one-liners like a cat with hairballs.

*gaaacckkk*  Look out! I think there's another one coming up now!

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 06:59:59 -0300
Subject: Re: The Idiots Among Us.... (long)

> 
> 
> Sorry about not reposting the whole damn article all over again, BTW;
> I dunno what came over me...
> 
> Andrew C. Green          

Andy;

You should be sorry.  I was just getting to be able to mouth the words 
ahead of my reading.  Another few postings 7 it would have been a 
permanent part of my memory. 

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 12:12:38 -0300
Subject: BMW Joke was: The Idiots Among Us.... (long)

> For my opinion the BMW-drivers are the worst of all. Propably those BMW:s are
> so handy that it is FUN to irritate.

Q: What's the difference between a BMW and a porcupine?

A: A porcupine has the pricks on the outside.

- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-5450    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 11:10:03 -0300
Subject: Re: T-Tops Weather seals 84  hurst olds 

>Granted, the A- and G-bodies from that generation didn't have the equivalent
>of convertible frames, but they probably had some idea that they were going
>to be putting big gaping holes in the roofs; Olds had been doing that for
>years when the '78's were on the drawing boards, and I believe they were
>options early on in that model run.

Yup, it's a totally separate pressing, that T-bar, not an extra punch with
a standard roof panel, and the middle is a big rectangular box frame, from
what I remember when opening it all up (see the avalanche photo on Bryce's
web page under my listing for the '82). Unfortunately I think it was still
not enough reinforcement...

>About subframe connectors on your Cutlass... Uh, you've already got some in
>there.

Yup again. Look under the nose and you'll see two fat bars converging under
the nose, for starters, that look very much like afterthoughts. I used to
think those were for T-top cars only, but found them on other Cutlasses as
well. What reinforcement is unique to T-top cars I don't know.

>Those year cars are *really* flexible, however, due to the
>downsizing/lightening. My downsized rwd Electra flexes like a cooked lasagna
>noodle. Plus, most Cutlasses experienced frame rust, so the steel used was
>probably not top-grade either.

Yes, yes, and yes. Another point you didn't mention was some separation of
seams in the trunk; mine had a minor problem with the floor separating from
the wheel housing and allowing road splash in. I blame body flex there, too;
I filled the seam with flexible caulk and it was all right after that.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:01:01 -0300
Subject: Legislation 

Noting Bob Valentine's comments about diesal trucks and buses belching
crud all over the road, perhaps this speaks to the power of their lobby.

chris fair

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:19:57 -0300
Subject: Holley Tuning 

I'm hardly worlds expert, but I'd work from Idle on up through whatever point
of the RPM range you're looking for. While playing with secondary springs,
suggest you start with the factory one for your carb, then keep experimenting.
Just like you're doing. As an example of my ignorance, I had never thought
about the fact that the factory plain spring might be holding my secondaries
not quite all the way open when I floored it. Guess *I* have some experimenting
to do too.  Sorry I can't be more help. 
cf

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #258
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