
oldsmobile-digest          Saturday, 29 June 1996       Volume 01 : Number 217


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 13:45:09 -0300
Subject: 1989 Olds Manual Trans WANTED

Anyone can help this feller? -Chris-

Forwarded message:
> From AGJRU812@aol.com Fri Jun 28 12:37:05 1996
> From: AGJRU812@aol.com
> Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 12:37:16 -0400
> Message-ID: <960628123714_566075103@emout15.mail.aol.com>
> To: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu
> Subject: 1989 Olds Manual Trans
>
> We are looking for 5 speed manual transmission 2.3Liter Quad 4  for 1989
Olds > Cutlass Calais. > > Skyway Motor Company > 304-472-9099 > 304-472-1920
FAX

- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 15:10:42 -0300
Subject: 49x engine, etc.

> BTW:  this is my first post from new mail client software (MS Exchange).
>  Could someone please let me know if my signature is screwed up or
> anything?
> ______________________________________________
> Shawn M. Twomey  |  "No!  Try not!  Do, or do
> stwom@ctp.com    |   not.  There is no try."
>                  |   -Yoda
> ______________________________________________

No moreso than usual...

> Not in this case Tom, this car was on slicks.

And, what, slicks are never radials?

> I was under the impression that the front springs on my '66 Olds 88 would
> have rubber insulators above and below the coil springs where they contact
> the frame and lower control arms. There werent any when I pulled eveything

Don't think so...

>   Thanks for the facts.  It doesnt have a "T" suffix. :(

Bummer, therefore, you almost certainly have a std. 425 block with the 45
degree cam [lifter bank angle], which makes finding a cam a bit more
challenging, should you ever need to do so. CANNOT just pop in a common cam
from say JCWhitney or a C*evy oriented shop, for say a 350 or 455...
  Then, there's them 'other' 1967 425 blocks that Mondello claims exist, that
have the more modern cam bank angle... kinda rare, like Solid Main Web 403's,
forged 455 cranks... hen's teeth... etc.
    Well, what IS the code stamped in there... is is HC or LC, was 2V or 4V
engine?

> So I have a 1967 425 std. 4V-HC w/ "C" heads.. (coulda been worse I guess)

Yeah, like J-head 455... or a 455 crank in an E-400 engine... if the early
crank in a late engine left the pistons about 0.150" short of the deck
surface, guess what a late crank in an early engine would do...  :)

> On a differnet note, the car has a 4.11 geared posi rear end.. any chance
that > baby was stock? =)

Well.... I thought that the "4.11" ratio was a Ch*vy thing, and Olds offered a
3.90 or 4.10 gearset. Could be wrong on that- hard to keep all them years
straight... How do you know the rear end ratio? 1- was told that [see 'list of
definitions], 2- counted turns, or 3- counted gear teeth.

> > > And, has anyone out there tried the "493cid olds/buick stroker combo"?
Wa > > > all that and more? :) > > > > Not many have the budget for that kind
of toy... or care to have a > > non-streetable race-only car. -Chris- > > >
Hmm.. non-streetable?  I was under the impression from the article on brycem >
web page that the 493 Olds was originally designed for motorhomes, but found a 
>
place in street/strip apps. Mebbe your thinking of something else.  I was refe 
>
to using Buick 455 rods in an Olds 455.  The only cost I can forsee is the mac 
>
shop work.. Ken

Well, now that I'm more nearly sober... I guess I was a-thinkin' about that
454 cid small block with block filler... Ooooops! OK, so the 493 is a great
unit, just cost oh an extra grand or so for the exotic machine work. Within
many a budget. -Chris-

> A lot of people ask him what he wants but none have come close to a price he
> will even consider.  His new car is an _original_ 70 442 W-30 coupe.  By
> original, I mean _original_ paint, interior, drivetrain, etc. Very nice car.
> Bob Handren   OCA#7728

I'd set the price at like $2 million...

> Hmmm, let's see. We'll give you your pick: A 2-bbl '69 Caddy 3-on-the-
> tree carburetor, a GM remote-starter solenoid with automatic heat soak,
> or a 1986 Cutlass Calais-that-doesn't-exist. Have I left anything out?
> Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431

How about a redundant ground kit?! Complete with electron filter to trap those
large electrons BEFORE they get stuck in the works! -Chris-

>          As I mentioned, Mobil 1 is an excellent product, but AMSOIL was
> introduced in 1972, a little ahead of Mobil 1.

And the point is... ?
Most folks are more concerned with how much benefit they receive from the $
they spend than who introduced what first.... So, the big Q still stands:
which is best, in terms of protection, *for the dollar spent*...?

>    He also knew that the same outstanding performance benefits synthetic
> lubricants provide for jet engines would prove invaluable to car, truck and
> other internal combusiton engines.

Well, then, how come it took *30 years* to convert this oil from suitable for
tanks & aircraft to suitable for plain old autos. THIRTY YEARS?

- --SKO Cutlass--
>          To tell you the honest truth, I am not exactly positive.  I was
> hoping someone here would have some details.  I have done a lot of research
> on this car and I have come up empty as to what it really is.  I have called
> Oldsmobile headquarters, contacted Oldsmobile clubs, etc., all to no avail.
>  The car is not specially equipped in any way, aside from a shiny metal
targa > band that sperates the half vinyl roof from the metal, painted section
of > roof.  At the bottom of each side of the targa band, (looks great by the >
way), is an emblem about the size of your palm with two crossed swords over a >
shield with the letters, "SKO, Six Knights of Oldsmobile", emblazoned on it.

Aha! I'd guess that six dealers got together to pool advertising costs, etc.,
and went so far as to modify a batch of Cutlasses with their group's name, as
a sales/ advertising gimmick.

>     The car has a 350 R code Oldsmobile engine that gets it around, but it
> certainly is not anything quick.  I have been told that this was Oldsmobiles
> 1977 version of the "Rocket" engine.  It's not really slow, but if that was
> Oldsmobiles idea of a "Rocket", I'd hate to see a sled! LOL :-)  I have to

Well, smogger, #8 heads, whattya expect? Good news- swap heads & cam, easy to
waken that engine.

>   In fact, I took the car on a highway trip once to find out just how many
> mpg's she could deliver on the highway, while *really* driving for fuel
> economy; windows up, coasting down hills, treating the accelerator like an
> egg, AC off, etc.  In tip top tune, AMSOIL in the engine, transmission, rear
> axle and a high performance AMSOIL air filter being the only modifications,
> this 4,000 lb., fully loaded car knocked down 30.9 mpg!  I even refilled at
> the same gas pump I filled up at so the same pressure cut off switch would
be > used and I would be replacing *exactly* the same amount of fuel as the
engine

I'd question that assumption... that the pump cuts off at exactly the same
amount in the tank every time. Could easily be off by oh, say, a gallon. If
you spread that error out over a whole tank of say 20 gallons- you didn't say
how much was consumed over the test- then the error might be as little as
5%... of course, if the trip was only 150 miles, used about 5 gallons, and the
error in measuring how much was used came to 1 gallon... then we're at 20%
error.
  Now, had you FILLED the tank both times, to the very brim of the filler
tube... I'd have much more faith in that assumption that what went in == what
was used.
  And the 403's rear end ratio is...? -Chris-

> > I know that someone has asked before, but what is a 77 Olds "SKO" Cutlass?
> Synthetic Krap Only?
> Sorry, I couldn't bite my tongue (finger?) any longer.      ;)
> The 66 Toro SRB and Mike
> (Squashed Right Bumperhorn)
> Michael R. Frederick, CEO

Oh, that's cold-blooded!  :)
The 68 442 W-HY and Chris

> I got the round interior lights that go next to the rear window.  I
> pulled them out of a '72 Buick.  I would like to know if they will fit
> a '72 Cutlass.  I've seen them in '72 Cutlass Supreme with the "Boxed"

You know, there's some things that you just gotta DO, rather than ask a bunch
of folks on the computer, "will it work...?"  Since you have all the
aforementioned items.... have at it. And you will, of course, report back to
us on the results, right?
  BTW, I vote yes, but the Buick emblems in the plastic might be call for
'points off' among Olds enthusiasts...

> > You guys gut no slack do ya???

Usually let typos pass, I guess I make my share or more, but that one was just
too easy pickin's... all in good fun.

> Tonight I took out the cam - on the back end it has the numbers - 89553 -
> and a F019 (ford??) stamped behind the first bearing surface is the
> number '1703' don't know if this is a keeper or not. The engine was very

Oh, yeah, Ford cam, made in '89, 553 degrees of duration- the valve snaps shut
JUST long enough to get a quick burst of power in... old racer's trick, ya
know... :-)

> pistons i removed so far are all free. If I could only find out why i
> smoked so bad and sounded like a Diesel!

Why *i* smoked so bad?! Heh... assuming that's another typo, heh... maybe it
WAS a Diesel! No? Didn't think so... cam timing jumped a tooth? piston oil
return holes clogged? wrist pins loose?

> Who says there was no power to weight advantage. I happen to know this =
> thing made more power than stock. How you assemble the components (any =
> components) is just as important if not more so than what components you =
> select.

So, got any tips for us? 2 colors of gasket goo... hang the pistons on in
reverse... 0.005" piston-wall clearance... 0.050" bearing clearance... short
crank in a long-crank engine :) ? Reverse the flexplate for 'racer's balance'?
Special paint color? "No Fear" stickers? Screen under the carburetor? Magnets
on the [steel] fuel line?

> The modifications were as follows. Balanced/Blueprinted, .30 over bore, =
                                                           ^^^^
Aha! lessee, 4.125 + 0.300= 4.425" bore! That explains a lot...  :)
Typos, can't live with 'em, can't  stop making 'em!

> stock replacement cast HC pistons (block was decked to give 10.2 : 1 =
> compression with 0.28" compressed head gasket), w-30 spec cam, (as =

Again, where does one get these miracle head gaskets? Is that the same place
that sells Solid Main Web 403's...?

> mentioned before), w-30 intake, big valve "C" heads with 3 angle valve =
> job, electric fuel pump, MSD distributor with MSD 6AL, Turbo 400 with =
                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Is that supposed to be far superior to say an HEI, or did the guy just have an
extra $250 to blow on stuff that doesn't make a big difference?

> 4500 stall, 4.11 gear, 9 " slicks, oh yes and 2.75" exhaust. As I also =
                                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Oh, yeah, that *stock* 2.75" exhaust system- a VERY rare factory option!
Did he get the 'muffler delete' pipes, too? :)

> said previously this car hooks extremely hard and will pull the wheels =
> about a foot high at the line, then its shifted at 5800rpm. Every inch =
> of this car has been gone over to prevent any friction from robbing =
> speed in the engine or chassis.

Well, it's not that I/we dont BELIEVE you exactly, as you do have a reputation
here to uphold, but you know, when we go to the track and see how much it
takes for ordinary folks to get into the 12's even... then you say a stock 455
in [what year again?] Cutlass is way into the 11's... It's like, skepticism,
followed by, "cool, now show me how *I* can do that too!"

> Ken I have assembled 2 493 Mondello strokers and can assure you this makes a
f antastic engine for a street car. Better than a 455 in fact. > Chris Urban

Oughta take a Cutlass into the 10's, easy, huh? :)

> factory cars.  Was the car's suspension modified at all?  I seem to run
> into wheelhop problems when running on slicks even with a relatively mild
> 455...

Ayep, same here... That's why I wondered if no-hop bars had been installed.
And what YEAR Cutlass...

> > I  2.74
> > That first gear ratio combined with the 3.73 rear end makes for quite a
> > quick final drive ratio.  Sorry, I don't know the ratios for the 350.

That's not even including the tork multiplication induced by the tork
converter, right? -Chris-

> I don't think your suppose to have them, my '66 GTO conv. (about same
> size as a Olds 88 -I think) does not have them, nor my '69 H/O.

GTO = Cutlass, not 88. Size-wise, that is....

- ----snip---
> How is Mobil 1 inferior to AMSOIL?
>
> I like to think I am a bit more patient than some others you can run into
> on the Internet, but this is starting to get aggravating.
> Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431

Bang, called on the carpet! Good call, ACG. And the response is....???
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: <eekstrom@coris.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 15:19:48 -0300
Subject: Re: '72 Cutlass parts -Reply

     FYI, I'm located in the Chicago area.  I have a line on one now.  It
     is an NOS part.  I'll cost me $80.  If I cannot come up with a used
     one in great shape, I'll opt for the NOS.

     BTW, there is an Oldsmobile list you might want to subscribe to.  Try
     posting your part request there if you haven't already.  The list is
     "oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca".  Subscribe via "majordomo@ccn.cs.dal.ca".
     Good luck.




______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________ Subject: '72 Cutlass parts -Reply Author:
Blaine Sanders   5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com> at ~WLBRK03 Date:    6/28/96
12:08 PM


I might be able to find you a passenger side (right) rear
wheel well trim piece in great shape.  Only problem is, I'd have to travel
300 miles to get it.  I'll see what I can do...

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 14:29:56 -0300
Subject: Re: 49x engine, etc.

>> The car is not specially equipped in any way, aside from a shiny metal
targa >> band that sperates the half vinyl roof from the metal, painted
section of >> roof.  At the bottom of each side of the targa band, (looks
great by the >> way), is an emblem about the size of your palm with two
crossed swords over a >> shield with the letters, "SKO, Six Knights of
Oldsmobile", emblazoned on it. > >Aha! I'd guess that six dealers got together
to pool advertising costs, etc., >and went so far as to modify a batch of
Cutlasses with their group's name, as a >sales/ advertising gimmick.

Given that there's nothing in the history of Olds to justify the "Knights"
reference (unlike, say, Cadillac, which has a genuine coat of arms courtesy
of its founder), it certainly sounds like a dealer group thing. Maybe they
took the "Gallant Men of Olds" theme one step further. The fact that it's
got a pot-metal insignia isn't all that significant; a lot of dealers back
then had their nameplates done in pot metal rather than stickers, which
always corroded long before the rest of the chrome. (Anybody in the Boston
area remember the huge "Sea Crest Cadillac/Pontiac" nameplates? Or the
Chicago area Oldsmobiles with a huge, pitted "RAY" Olds logo? :-)

The targa band sounds a lot like that used on H/Os for the period (here
I'm thinking of '74 or '75). Anyone with a targa-band 442 or H/O care to
comment?

>> I got the round interior lights that go next to the rear window.  I
>> pulled them out of a '72 Buick.  I would like to know if they will fit
>> a '72 Cutlass.  I've seen them in '72 Cutlass Supreme with the "Boxed"
>
>You know, there's some things that you just gotta DO, rather than ask a bunch
>of folks on the computer, "will it work...?"  Since you have all the
>aforementioned items.... have at it. And you will, of course, report back to
us >on the results, right?

They'll work, if wired properly, but I'd wonder about accidentally melting
the surrounding plastic of the B pillar liner if he simply cut holes and
stuck 'em in without some sort of reinforcement... They're high-intensity
bulbs; those suckers get _hot_.

>  BTW, I vote yes, but the Buick emblems in the plastic might be call for
>'points off' among Olds enthusiasts...

My '82 Cutlass with T-tops (not sure if the regular Cutlasses get these)
had round B-pillar lights back there. No logo, just a starburst pattern.

>> I like to think I am a bit more patient than some others you can run into
>> on the Internet, but this is starting to get aggravating.
>> Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
>
>Bang, called on the carpet! Good call, ACG. And the response is....???

...perhaps not likely to be seen before tomorrow. I notice he replies
to the digest; Greg, when's the next one due out?

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 15:06:54 -0300
Subject: RE: Box stock 442 went 11.72

The suspension work involved drag shocks in front, removing the front sway
bar, air bags in the coil springs

- ----------
From: 	Paul R. K. Kuromoto[SMTP:suntzu@ohana.com]
Sent: 	Thursday, June 27, 1996 12:07 PM
To: 	Chris Urban
Cc: 	'oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca'
Subject: 	RE: Box stock 442 went 11.72

Agreed.  Buying the right parts isn't much if you don't assemble or tune
the engine well.  And after all that, the chassis has to complement the
engine well, which I believe is much of the source of the low ET's for
factory cars.  Was the car's suspension modified at all?  I seem to run
into wheelhop problems when running on slicks even with a relatively mild
455...

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 15:43:42 -0300
Subject: RE: Box stock 442 went 11.72

You wrote:

I'll have to side with Chris Urban on this one.  Remember that in the =
'60's
and '70's it was magazine writers who test drove these cars with little
bias-ply pizza-cutter tires.  Their main job was to write articles not =
drag
race.  Once you put slicks on and have an optimally tuned engine and put =
an
experienced driver behind the wheel, then the e/t's drop dramatically.

I plugged all the numbers that Chris provided us (ie. 4500 stall, =
weight,
TH-400, rear end ratio, shift points, tire dimensions etc.) into my =
Quarter
Jr. program.  I assumed a 400 HP '70 W-30 motor.  I know that that motor =
is
technically rated at 370 HP but the same motor is rated at 400 HP in the
Toronado (and even that is being conservative!)  It gave me a result of
11.96 at 112.2 MPH and I was still getting tire slippage for the first =
0.232
seconds!  This software program is is supposed to be accurate within +/- =
1%.
So, 11.72 at 112 mph is very close.  In fact, if I plugged in 420 HP =
instead
of 400 HP, I get a result of 11.78 at 114.0 MPH.  Great work Chris!!

Nick DiGiovanni
Port Coquitlam, B.C.
1970 4-4-2 - "Snarls Softly and Carries a Big Kick"

Hey thanks, and its nice to see the people here taking an interest in =
the performance aspect of muscle cars as they were intended. I hope =
others will start sharing information as to the outcome of some of there =
projects.

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 15:44:04 -0300
Subject: RE: Box stock 442 went 11.72 (not impossible)

OK here is another on for you. I also mentioned this a while ago but =
seeing as there are performance minded people here now I'll share it =
again. About 2 years ago we built a car that set our absolute quarter =
mile record for a Cutlass at 9.78. No this was not a stock car but a =
purpose built ,tunnel rammed ( no nitrous) race car. Though it did have =
a steel body and weighed 3400lbs.

- ----------
From: 	WMACHINES@aol.com[SMTP:WMACHINES@aol.com]
Sent: 	Friday, June 28, 1996 12:28 AM
To: 	oldsmobile
Subject: 	Box stock 442 went 11.72 (not impossible)

We have a fellow here in Det area and races a NHRA S/S olds.  His car =
runs at
11.60's.
The engine are TRW2323DF's, match port intake and exhaust sides of =
heads.
Balanced and blueprinted, 12 bolt olds rearend with 4:56 gears 4500 =
stall
from B&M. Q-jet (has to run stock manufacture parts.  W-30 intake(yes =
real
one), Hooker super comp headers are allowed.  The car weights in at =
3700lbs.
 Car is manual steering, manual disc brakes
plain heat, air bags th400 and the 455 is punched out .030.  So yes it =
is
possible as long as you can hook.

Mark Prince
72 442 W-30 Race Rocket
seeing is beliving=20

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 15:55:59 -0300
Subject: RE: 49x engine, etc.

No moreso than usual...

> Not in this case Tom, this car was on slicks.

And, what, slicks are never radials?

Not if you want to go fast.


> mentioned before), w-30 intake, big valve "C" heads with 3 angle valve =
> job, electric fuel pump, MSD distributor with MSD 6AL, Turbo 400 with =
                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Is that supposed to be far superior to say an HEI, or did the guy just have an
extra $250 to blow on stuff that doesn't make a big difference?
No its just what the rules allowed for and anything you can get extra you have
to take.

> 4500 stall, 4.11 gear, 9 " slicks, oh yes and 2.75" exhaust. As I also =
                                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Oh, yeah, that *stock* 2.75" exhaust system- a VERY rare factory option!
Did he get the 'muffler delete' pipes, too? :)

I think you missed the point.

> said previously this car hooks extremely hard and will pull the wheels =
> about a foot high at the line, then its shifted at 5800rpm. Every inch =
> of this car has been gone over to prevent any friction from robbing =
> speed in the engine or chassis.

Well, it's not that I/we dont BELIEVE you exactly, as you do have a reputation
here to uphold, but you know, when we go to the track and see how much it
takes for ordinary folks to get into the 12's even... then you say a stock 455
in [what year again?] Cutlass is way into the 11's... It's like, skepticism,
followed by, "cool, now show me how *I* can do that too!"

Well High 11's is not way into the 11's there's a big difference. My daily
(weekend) driver will do 12's on street rubber.

> Ken I have assembled 2 493 Mondello strokers and can assure you this makes a
f antastic engine for a street car. Better than a 455 in fact. > Chris Urban

Oughta take a Cutlass into the 10's, easy, huh? :)

I doubt it.

> factory cars.  Was the car's suspension modified at all?  I seem to run
> into wheelhop problems when running on slicks even with a relatively mild
> 455...


Wow! I you sound bitter. I wonder what you'll have to say about my next post.

------------------------------

From: AMSOILL@aol.com
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 17:10:23 -0300
Subject: Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 #216

<<[...sales pitch deleted...]

>                             I hope this helps answer your question.

Question? What question? You were quoting yourself above, from your last
advertisement>>

Hi Andrew;
               Answering a question posed to me by others about oils is not
a, "sales pitch", neither is it, "advertising".  I have never mentioned
price, nor availability, etc., etc. I have answered questions, pure and
simple.  I never even bagan any dialogue.  Someone asked a question and
requested information.  I provided it. This needs to be made clear.

                                                    Cheers,
                                                             Steve

                       7 year independent AMSOIL Synthetic Lubricants Dealer
                                      '77 Oldsmobile SKO Cutlass owner
                           '69 427/450 factory installed, Yenko Camaro owner


------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 18:37:38 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Box stock 442 went 11.72

Congrats for the great setup and run.  I think we all bit on the "box stock".

As always, "stock" is in the eye of the beholder (factory, IHRA, NHRA, etc).
Box stock would indicate a 442 that has 100% original or original replacement
parts, with performance tuning to get all the 100% original factory components
 working to the best of their ability.

I don't think "box stock" includes MSD dist, ignition box, headers, slicks, .
I doubt stretching "box stock" to include a collection of all best components
ever put on a 442 to be assembled into one car would get it to 11.78.

Nevertheless, the 11.78 time is great considering the somewhat limited amount
of Olds performance products that are available, and limited Olds knowledge
and research.

Would you mind scanning the time slips?  Anyone want to put them up on their
web page?

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
               Check out: www.442.com
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 17:01:31 -0300
Subject: Re: oldsmobile-digest V1 #216

>           Answering a question posed to me by others about oils is not
>a, "sales pitch", neither is it, "advertising".

The point is that in your first post, a reply on 6/12/96, you didn't
answer the question, and in your most recent post you followed up
yourself and didn't even _have_ a question. In your wake following the
first post, there were in fact several questions directed your way
which went unanswered. The fact that a few were couched in rather
skeptical terms should not preclude your answering them.

>I have never mentioned price, nor availability, etc., etc.

You have never mentioned price. As for mentioning availability (which
I think is a minor point, but you brought it up), in your very first
post:

>>                  I hope this has been of help.  If anyone would like an
>>interesting article comparing synthetic oils with petroleum oils, or would
>>like an AMSOIL catalogue that offers toll free factory direct ordering, just
>>e-mail me and I'll e-mail you the article and snail mail you the catalogue.

>I have answered questions, pure and simple.

I'm afraid we have to disagree on that point. To reiterate mine (I'll
let the others resubmit theirs; as I recall, someone else had asked you
for laboratory references, among other things):

1) You stated:

>> Semi-synthetic oils, or "blend" oils, by law, can have as little as
>> -->--> 1% <--<--
>> synthetic oil in them and still be legally called a "blend".

Could you tell us, if known, what the blend percentages are for the
two brands the original poster was asking about? (Valvoline Durablend
and Castrol's blend, product name not given)

2) Are there in fact brands of semi-synthetic oil out there which are only
1% synthetic, and which ones are they?

3) You stated:
>> The benefits of a high quality synthetic oil are
>> many.  Another good synthetic oil on the market is Mobil 1.  Not as good as
>> AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oil, but a very good oil none the less.

How is Mobil 1 inferior to AMSOIL?

>I never even began any dialogue.

Agreed.

>Someone asked a question and requested information.  I provided it. This
>needs to be made clear.

You did not provide the information he was after, but did supply pages
of material extolling the virtues of Amsoil, then fell silent again
when followup questions appeared. In your most recent post, you wrote
an entire history of the company and still didn't answer those questions.
I mean, it took numerous questions just to find out what an "SKO Cutlass"
was.

Granted, we are all busy with Real Work these days, but when you found
the time to post a long history of Amsoil but do not address any of
several questions regarding your claims for your product, we all start
to wonder whether you might not be simply here to sell your product.

Andrew C. Green
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 21:16:17 -0300
Subject: Re: AMSOIL forever

AMSOILL@aol.com wrote:
>
>      7 year independent AMSOIL Synthetic Lubricants Dealer

Perhaps some of have jumped the gun but if you remember, you initially
started out with the AMSOIL thing, something about Goodyear, and some
other stuff in your sig.  And we've heard nothing but AMSOIL this and
AMSOIL that since then.  It looks commercial, it sounds commercial, and
it smells commercial.  Other than perhaps a title and a company name, I
haven't noticed anyone else including their resume or the brand name of
products they personally represent with their posts.  If some of us have
gotten the wrong impression, I apologize (for me).

If you want to have an ongoing discussion with someone about the products
you represent then why don't you take it private posts?


The 66 Toro and Mike
47 years NO AMSOIL, NO AMWAY, NO HERBALIFE


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 20:06:23 -0300
Subject: Re: 69 Police 455 engine?

Excellent - its got those big mudders for those spring time parts yard
romps.  Load the bed with engines, . . .

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
               Check out: www.442.com
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu

- ---------------
Maybe this is the engine for the "yard truck"- My brother got a
free 4WD Ch*vy 4x4 with big tires last week... no engine & trans... Fit a boom
to it... yeah...
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: Doug McClanahan <mcclan@wsdot.wa.gov>
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 20:04:48 -0300
Subject: 1967, 72 cutlass/442  FYI

Car and Driver from Nov. 90 has an article by Brock Yates on page 100 (7)
about a 1967 442.

Hot Rod from Jan. 1993 has an article about a 72 cutlass that turned 11s.

Doug
mcclan@wsdot.wa.gov

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 18:21:00 -0300
Subject: RE: Re[2]: Box stock 442 went 11.72

Congrats for the great setup and run.  I think we all bit on the "box stock".


I don't think "box stock" includes MSD dist, ignition box, headers, slicks, .
I doubt stretching "box stock" to include a collection of all best components
ever put on a 442 to be assembled into one car would get it to 11.78.

Again besides the ignition the engine was stock - no headers

Nevertheless, the 11.78 time is great considering the somewhat limited amount
of Olds performance products that are available, and limited Olds knowledge
and research.

Would you mind scanning the time slips?  Anyone want to put them up on their
web page? I would love to. I'll ask my customer for them and then I'll have to
try and find a scanner. Thanks for the compliment though.

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
               Check out: www.442.com
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 21:10:00 -0300
Subject: Re: All Makes Auto Farm

In a message dated 96-06-26 23:56:52 EDT, you write:

> Tons of Lecars and Pacers too..:)

No doubt drop shipped direct from the factory!

Paul

------------------------------

From: Dana and Mary Taylor <dmtaylor@top.monad.net>
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 23:57:21 -0300
Subject: Oldses and typo's

Chris Brown Witt wrote:


> > > You guys cut no slack do ya???
>
> Usually let typos pass, I guess I make my share or more, but that one was
just > too easy pickin's... all in good fun.I realize that and I took it all
in fun also. After reading my posting after I sent it I will have to watch my
typo's closer. > > Tonight I took out the cam - on the back end it has the
numbers - 89553 - > > and a F019 (ford??) stamped behind the first bearing
surface is the > > number '1703' don't know if this is a keeper or not. Does
this cam have anything to offer??

> > pistons i removed so far are all free. If I could only find out why i
> > smoked so bad and sounded like a Diesel!
>
> Why *i* smoked so bad?! Heh... assuming that's another typo, heh... maybe it
> WAS a Diesel! No? Didn't think so... cam timing jumped a tooth? piston oil
> return holes clogged? wrist pins loose?

The engine smoked very bad out the left bank when I drove it home. It
also clattered something awful.

As I said before, The engine was extreamly clean inside. The pistons show
some wear on the skirts near the oil rings. The rod bearings in the cap
all look good ie; no copper showing nor is there the usual dirt or metal
frragments inbeded in the surface. The unusual part is the bearing half
in the rod itself. the center part of the bearing half is all copper
colored. Why would only the one half be worn and not the other. I always
thought the most wear occured on the side of the downward thrust with the
other part of the wear would be on the lower half where the rod was being
forced up. As I said there was no ridge on the cyls. and all the rings
were free.
Any sugestions on how to produce 250 - 300 horse from this motor??
Without unreasonable cost? I would like my 84 Cutlass Supreme Broughm,
when crusing at 45 - 50 mph to bark the tires when kicked into passing
gear.! Is that too much to ask???

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 21:51:31 -0300
Subject: Re: Box stock 442 went 11.72

In a message dated 96-06-27 22:20:00 EDT, you write:

>  I seem to run
>into wheelhop problems when running on slicks even with a relatively mild
>455...

Which model Olds are you running?  I use Air Lift bags in the '67 and with
slicks that bite have never had wheel hop.  Run the bags independantly and
preload the right rear, that should work.  The only other modification might
be to use stiffer bushings.

If you use such large slicks that the car must be raies in the rear, if the
pinion angle gets too bad, that can cause problems.  In that case some method
to correct the angle might be needed.

If the slicks don't bite and wheel hop starts, get some that do.

Bob Handren

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 22:15:34 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Box stock 442 went 11.72

Well,  back about '71 I ran a '64 Cutlass with a 425, no over bore, 12:1 cast
pistons, milled heads (don't remember how much) '70 W-30 intake with ~800 cfm
spreadbore carb, points ignition, M-21 4 speed, 10 inch slicks and 5:13 rear
gears.  No port matching, exhaust had the AIR bumps removed.  Hooker 1.5"
headers (3" collectors), not much else to say.

Car ran a best of 11.67 @ 116 mph.

Now, the '64 probably weighed no more than 3300 lbs but the only really
"non-stock" stuff (by the rules I am interpreting are at play in this
discussion) was the compression ratio.

And that was "only" a 425.

Bob Handren

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 22:45:57 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Box stock 442 went 11.72(more to come)

There are plenty of sources to get olds parts.  Mondello, Dave Smith, BATTEN
in Romulus MI. and of course other aftermarket companies.  I think most of
y'all
should look in National Dragster.  Much info availble on HI-PO parts, or is
it just
here in Michigan we can build fast Oldsmobiles.
Y'all need to take a trip to Mondello Olds Nationals on July 14th to see the
raw power of olds power cars only.  I will be there with a group of nine
other fellers.  We show em up.(HaHa).  Y'all know that DETROIT IS THE MOTOR
CITY CAPITAL OF THE WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So wake up people and learn to make Horsepower




72 442 W-30 RACE ROCKET


i know easy on caps

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 22:50:59 -0300
Subject: NMCA

I forgot to mention.  The NMCA(national muscle car association) represents
stock to modified muscle cars.  A 72 W-30 happen to win the Top Stock class
for 1995.  His car runs in the 11's.  So any more info needed contact me
W-MACHINES



72 442 w-30 Race Rocket

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 22:57:28 -0300
Subject: Re: 49x engine, etc.

>
>The targa band sounds a lot like that used on H/Os for the period (here
>I'm thinking of '74 or '75). Anyone with a targa-band 442 or H/O care to
>comment?
>
Yes it does sound similar. My 75 H/O has the targa band. Could have been
left over H/O parts put on these cars to make them special?


Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio					z28cfi@gwis.com
1988 Camaro IROC-Z/28 5.0 bowtie 
power			jlabay@phoenix.kent.edu
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25 5.7 rocket power
H/OCA member #0278A

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 23:45:15 -0300
Subject: Re: NMCA

That silver painted cutlass with wide black stripes is not really what I call
stock.  Its a nice car and the owners are having a good time racing it, but
its not stock.  I believe this whole discussion started over the "box stock"
car running so fast.

------------------------------

From: Ken <rottin@en.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 23:22:49 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Box stock 442 went 11.72

David Brown wrote:

> Nevertheless, the 11.78 time is great considering the somewhat limited
amount of > Olds performance products that are available, and limited Olds
knowledge and > research.

  When I was 15 years old I bought a '68 "gutless" Cutlass rust bucket.  After
 promptly blowing the (get this) 1970 W-30 455 motor I had a friends father
build it for me. He was a race boat builder by trade.  Back then people had
just started forsaking Old's motors in their boats for Mopars and Ch*vys.  He
made it his personal project to build a bad assed 455 for me with alot of
left overs he had laying around. .030 over, 10.5 forged pistons, Engle Ram
Air III cam( cant member exactly but like .550-.575 lift 328degree duration),
Offenhauser Port-O-Sonic intake, 750 Holly D.P., port/polish heads, Mallory
dual point Dist. The car had a TH400 w/ shift kit from a '69 or '70 GTO and
a 3.23 posi BOP rear end and ladder bars, and BF Goodrich 60 series t/a
radials.  End result was 13.10 at (get this again.. hehe) 129 MPH!!!  Thats
right.. cunsistant 120-129 MPH.. The car was sideways most of the way down
the track. Due to me being a young punk I couldnt afford slicks.  But I
figure if I coulda hooked up I would have been somewhere in the 11's..  no?

Ken
previously 1968 Cutalss S
           1971 Cutlass S
presently  1967 442 Convertible :)

------------------------------

From: ngomez@iadfw.net (Nick Gomez)
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 23:40:51 -0300
Subject: Johnny Lightning Indy 500 Cars

Johnny Lightning (die-cast toy manufacturer) is putting out a set of toy
cars called the Indianapolis 500 Champions Collections. Two cars per pack,
the winner's car and the pace car. Various years. I got the 1970 set, with
the Al Unser car, and a 1970 Olds 442 pace car. It looks great, it's yellow
with black racing stripes and it's a convertible. Very detailed!

They also have the 1974 set, with Johnny Rutherford and a Hurst/Olds. They
also also have the 1977 set with A.J. Foyt and a Delta 88.

I got mine at Wal-Mart for $5, but I think they are collectable, and there
are few to be gotten. Good luck!
BeatniK

      ------------------------------------------------------------------
      1965 Oldsmobile 98          TIP # 1048         Trade Live Concerts
      Dallas, Texas             MiSTie # 53344        Collect Hot Wheels
      ------------------------------------------------------------------
                Official Signature File Of The Olympic Games

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 00:41:21 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Box stock 442 went 11.72

Ken,
Now you know what happened to that car.  It got slicks and now its running in
the 11's as "box stock".

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 01:33:48 -0300
Subject: Re: Johnny Lightning Indy 500 Cars

Hi Nick,
also the Pace cars have come in their original colors.  To all others
interested,
there are 8 pace cars and 8 indys. The cars are the 1992 Cadillac Alante,
69 Camero, 70 olds, 74 H/O, 77 Delta 88, 75 Buick Century, 78 Corvette, and
79 Mustang.  I have two extra sets availble.  These Pace cars are very nice
1/64
replicas.  Also Johnny Lightning is going to release 6 more series of the
same cars
but in different colors. The originals are limited and sold mostly at Indy.


72 442 W-30 Race Rocket
(W-Machines)

------------------------------

From: Ken <rottin@en.com>
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 09:37:55 -0300
Subject: more questions.. :)

I bought an "Ultra High Compression" air filter plate.  Now I need the Air
Cleaner that it goes on top of!  1967 442's w/ S.T. had an open elemented
chrome air cleaner didnt they?  Can someone point me to an aftermarket part
that is similar to the original and that will also mesh with the nifty
"Ultra-Hi" plate?

Thanks,
Ken

------------------------------

From: Michael Brady <drolds19@mail.idt.net>
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 14:25:23 -0300
Subject: Re: more questions.. :)

Ken wrote:
>
> I bought an "Ultra High Compression" air filter plate.  Now I need the Air
> Cleaner that it goes on top of!  1967 442's w/ S.T. had an open elemented
> chrome air cleaner didnt they?  Can someone point me to an aftermarket part
that > is similar to the original and that will also mesh with the nifty
"Ultra-Hi" > plate? > > Thanks, > KenHello ken, Year one has a very close to
original air cleaner assem. that will work nicely with your air filter plate,
i had one on my 67' 4-4-2 4-speed car, good luck

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 20:53:03 -0300
Subject: RE: Re[2]: Box stock 442 went 11.72(more to come)

Well the line has been drawn in the sand, I'll do my best to bring down some
fast Canadian iron. Should be fun.

- ----------
From: 	WMACHINES@aol.com[SMTP:WMACHINES@aol.com]
Sent: 	Friday, June 28, 1996 9:45 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Re: Re[2]: Box stock 442 went 11.72(more to come)

There are plenty of sources to get olds parts.  Mondello, Dave Smith, BATTEN
in Romulus MI. and of course other aftermarket companies.  I think most of
y'all
should look in National Dragster.  Much info availble on HI-PO parts, or is
it just
here in Michigan we can build fast Oldsmobiles.
Y'all need to take a trip to Mondello Olds Nationals on July 14th to see the
raw power of olds power cars only.  I will be there with a group of nine
other fellers.  We show em up.(HaHa).  Y'all know that DETROIT IS THE MOTOR
CITY CAPITAL OF THE WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So wake up people and learn to make Horsepower




72 442 W-30 RACE ROCKET


i know easy on caps

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #217
********************************