
oldsmobile-digest           Monday, 24 June 1996        Volume 01 : Number 212


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: John & Robin Whitcore <retrotek@phoenixat.com>
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 18:35:23 -0300
Subject: `69 442 w/455 Engine

Hi!

We're the owners of a '69 442 w/ a 455. We noticed that any Olds 
books/manuals we could get our hands on stated that the '69 442 was 
only available with a 400 engine; except for one. Was the 455 actually 
an option for the '69 442?

The "Oldsmobile 442 & W-Machines Restoration Guide" by Motorbooks 
International lists the 455ci Performance Engine as 1969 Optional 
Equipment (p90, Option L32). Our car also has a letter C cast on the 
left and right cylinder heads as it says in the spotters tips for the 
400ci engine.  The casting numbers on the engine denote a 455 between 
`68 and `72 (396021-F).  We are just curious as to what we've got!

Thanks! 

....j&r

------------------------------

From: "Shawn M. Twomey" <stwom@ctp.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 01:25:24 -0300
Subject: Re: You've done it before 

From: Dana and Mary Taylor <dmtaylor@top.monad.net>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 22:18:36 -0300
Subject: You've done it before

>I have three 
>olds engines. I beleive them all to be 305's.

Blasphemer!

>One has the number 3955582 on the area 
>behind the water pump. It has 39mi93673 on the little ridge of the left 
>cyl head and has the # 8 on the heads.

The 3955582 indicates a 350.  The #8 heads are the smogger heads from '73-7?
350s.

>The second one has the number 4790GM 5.0 L G behind the water pump with 
>3FY317794 on the Cly head pad. It also has 7A on the heads.

I can't for sure ID the block but based on the heads thats a 307, '86 or
newer.  Those heads have a swirl port design which, according to Joe M.,
stop making power at 4200 RPM.

>The third has 3161-5A on the pump ledge and 5A on the cyl heads.

Another 307, this one has the '80-'85 better 5A heads.

> I want 
>to rebuild one of them for my 84 cutlass supreme and need help in 
>choosing the best engine and head combo from the inventory I have.

I'm kind of stuck here.  You definitely want cubic inches, so I'd start with
the 350, but those heads have very large combustion chambers, which will
yield poor compression ratios.  I want to say use the 5A heads with the 350,
but I'm not sure what all this swap will require-nothing drastic, but a few
issues might pop up.  What's your budget?  Are you buying new pistons, cam,
etc.?

You should definitely check out the Olds FAQ, compiled from postings on this
list by David Brown.  Let us know if you'd like it emailed to you, or if you
have web access you can check it out from my home page:
http://www.cps.msu.edu/~twomeysh

__________________________________________________________________________
Shawn M. Twomey     |  "No!  Try NOT!  Do, or do not.  There is no try."
stwom@ctp.com       |  -Yoda
__________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

From: jrjet@whidbey.net (Dot & Tim McChesney)
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 01:44:44 -0300
Subject: Re: Toronado GT 

>Another in the area I am on Whidbey Island.  What is the show in Baniff
>and where is Baniff. I went to good Guy north westnational south of
>seattle last weekend. Lot of nice cars hand full of olds. one nice 53 88
>with 350 transplant.

Tim Mc.


_________________________________________________________________________
     Sort of, I'm in Spokane.  I'm going to try my best to make it up to
>     the All Olds Weekend that they're having up by Banff in September.
>     Will I see you there?
>
>     Tom L.
>
>______________________________ Reply Separator
>_________________________________
>Subject: Toronado GT
>Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
>Date:    6/20/96 7:41 PM
>
>
>There was also the usuall pack of 4-4-2's, W-30's, W-31's and H/O's from our
>club and the Seattle Washington club came up too.  Anybody from that area on
>this list?

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 01:28:41 -0300
Subject: Cam

Anyone have an unused stock-equivalent or SLIGHTLY hotter (below .470 
lift) cam they have decided against using and would like to sell?  Or, a 
used cam with lifters marked as removed from the bores.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: Ken <rottin@en.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 00:52:52 -0300
Subject: Re: 1967 442

Nick DiGiovanni wrote:

> A 400 cid engine (bronze color).
> A single 4bbl carb.
> Automatic or Standard Trans.
> Dual Exhaust with chrome tips.
> Front and Rear sway bars with boxed lower rear control arms.
> Letter C cast on front of left cylinder head and rear of reight cylinder head.
> Special chrome air cleaner. Automatic has single snorkel (same as '66)
> Four-speed has open element (same as '66).
> Special 4-4-2 emblems located on front grille and bottom of both front
> fenders and on bottom right of deck lid.

 Well, I got the car home, and it has all of the above, so I guess it's real! :)
Now lets talk about "heat soak" <grumble>.. heheh

> Nick DiGiovanni
> Port Coquitlam, B.C.
> 1970 4-4-2 - "Snarls Softly and Carries a Big Kick"

Ken Holland
Cleveland, Ohio
1967 4-4-2 Convertible - <---"been waiting a LONG time to type that! :)"

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 03:07:48 -0300
Subject: Retainers

On the same note, does anyone have steel non-rotator retainers for sale?

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: Nick DiGiovanni <ndigiova@direct.ca>
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 03:07:43 -0300
Subject: Re: Toronado GT 

At 01:44 AM 6/23/96 -0300, you wrote:
>>Another in the area I am on Whidbey Island.  What is the show in Baniff
>>and where is Baniff. 
>Tim Mc.

Banff is in Alberta and just across the B.C. border.  It's about 9-10 hours
drive from Vancouver.  The Northern Lights Chapter and the Oldsmobile Club
of B.C. will be having a weekend rally there on September 6, 7 and 8.

There are two upcoming events closer to your area that I hope to attend.
The South Sound 442 Club and the 442 Club of Oregon are sponsoring their 7th
annual picnic on Sunday, July 14 at Fort Borst Park in Centralia (just west
of I-5 off exit 82)(Contact Merrill Severson (206) 847-0737 Tacoma, Del
Schmidt (206) 852-5918 Kent, Greg Rollin (503) 244-8249 Portland.  On July
27th, there is the 12th annual Oldsmobile Car Show and Banquet in Edmonds,
Washington hosted by the Puget Sound Chapter.  It will be at Frances
Anderson Recreation Center on 700 Main Street (Contact Judy Iverson (206)
271-0195).

Hope to see some of you there!
 
Nick DiGiovanni
Port Coquitlam, B.C.
1970 4-4-2 - "Snarls Softly and Carries a Big Kick"

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 04:36:55 -0300
Subject: Re: T-Top & Engine blews, err blues, 

>buehner wrote:
>> 
>> >
>> 
>>      Been having fun in the Gran Sport, at least...  Been putting that "Have
>> you beaten a Ford... lately" part to good use, anyway!!!
>> 
>>       
>>       
>
>Charlie:
>
>My daughter with the GT Mustang loves to go fast on the street, but when 
>the opponent does get a little tough she borrows the GS or the 442.
>
>Bill Culp
>Decatur, Alabama
>

     Yup, I don't doubt that!!  :)
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 04:36:58 -0300
Subject: Re: fun with 260's? 

>So, a friend, Pat Lind, has decided to do what some of us can only dream about
>doing...
>
>Hot-rod a 260 engine...
>
>yes, it's true, he found a serviceable block at Padnos, good bores. No piston
>$. He figures a cam can be used in another engine later anyhow... So he's gonna
>try to make a screaming 260 engine. I told him he's pretty much stuck with 260
>heads unless he can get some old 330 small chamber units & mill them about 10cc
>off... MIGHT get to 9:1 compression...
>
>Anyhow, somebody had to do it... And Pat's a big-car freak, too... Hmmm....

     I'd toy'd with that idea in the past a few times (since that was the
first motor I had, and planned on a rebuild...)  Someone managed to talk
sense into me and I went with a 350 (then 403, then 455, then ...??)
Anyway, I always thought it'd be really interesting to see what it could do.
Hell, if ford can make a 289 break 35 miles per hour, we should be able to
break the sound barrier, right???  :)
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 04:53:38 -0300
Subject: Re: 455 

>
>
>On Thu, 20 Jun 1996, Buddha wrote:
>
>> is there a way to put a 455 in a 78-88 Cutlass?  i am asking this because
>> the S-10 has the same front clip as the cutlass and am wanting soem SERIOUS
>> power...and if it would be a pain in the ass, what is the largest engine
>> that i can put in there w/o too much trouble...better yet, what was the
>> largest engine offered in these years
>>                                 Zack
>> 
>> 
>The largest engine was the ford 460.  i think.
>
>but people who drive fords are dicks
>

     Ouch!  Ha ha...  That's getting a bit extreme, I think, we can say ford
sucks, etc, but I think ~that's~ getting a little ~too~ personal for the
general population, right?  

     Anyway, to answer the question at hand (although you lost me with the
S-10 part...)  If the Cutlass had an Olds V8 already (260, 307, 350, 260X or
350X) the 455 will bolt right in.  The exhaust needs to be modified, and the
accessory brackets need to be alterred.  Most can come from the donor car,
except the AC, which will require fabrication to run the smaller, R4
compressor.  
     To get to the confusing part, tho.  What is this going into; a Cutlass
or an S-10?  The S-10 will need a different tranny to accomodate the BOP
bolt pattern, and will require changing the lower motor mounts on the frame
(which as far as I can tell requires pulling the lower control arms --or the
firesaw-- to get to the mounting bolts. 
     As for ~biggest~ there is the Caddy monsters out there, too.  I don't
know anything about them, but I've heard about an outfit that makes kits to
put a 472 in Monte's.  That would likely be similar.  
     As for ~best~  I'd stick with 455.  You might try Buick, too.  (I think
they are a bit lighter, and have heard that they are a bit easier to get
power out of.  I know both of mine (Buick and Olds) hauled ass, so...
Either way would be about the same in an S-10 as far as mod's.
     Hope this helps, keep us posted...
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 08:51:24 -0300
Subject: Re: 1967 442

Ken wrote:
> 
> > 
>  Well, I got the car home, and it has all of the above, so I guess it's real! :)
> 
> 
> 
> Ken Holland
> Cleveland, Ohio
> 1967 4-4-2 Convertible - <---"been waiting a LONG time to type that! :)"


Congratulations!  You won't believe the fun you will have and the 
frustration too.  These things beat new cars all over the place - unless 
you want cheap comfortable transportation to get quickly from point A to 
point B.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 08:06:49 -0300
Subject: Re: `69 442 w/455 Engine

John & Robin Whitcore wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> 
> We're the owners of a '69 442 w/ a 455. We noticed that any Olds
> books/manuals we could get our hands on stated that the '69 442 was
> only available with a 400 engine; except for one. Was the 455 actually
> an option for the '69 442?
> 
> 
> 
> ....j&r

John & Robin:

I'm sure that you will get many answers like mine.  The 400 was the only 
engine for the 1968-69 442.  There was a standard 350 HP 4 speed, 325 Hp 
automatic, 360 Hp if you chose the W30, and a low HP if one got the 2 
barrel cruising option.  

The 455s went into the big cars and was a part of the Hurst car.

Bill culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: eda@dl.tc.faa.gov
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 16:19:05 -0300
Subject: Re: Computer Codes, plus *YES!* (long) 

Tom, nice explanation on the TPS adjustment.  By an odd coincidence, I had just put this on my list of "things to check, uh, sometime", after reading a little blurb by a GN owner who said he got a nice improvement after having
someone adjust his.  Read it on the GN page, the existence of which I was 
also reminded of by one of your posts!!  Anyway, with your instructions, I
can probably move it a lot closer to the top of the "ttcus" list - say, right
after the nasty exhaust leak & the tranny that may or may not be going south
and possibly during the tune-up that I'll do when I'm mentally, emotionally, and financially recovered from the shock of the first two bills. :-\

BTW, what was the name of the Carb & CC book?

Ed Atlee			'77 Cutlass Supreme
eda@dl.tc.faa.gov		'84 Hurst/Olds
	R O C K E T	P O W E R E D ! !

------------------------------

From: glenn connors <gpc442@buffnet.net>
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 10:05:50 -0300
Subject: found overheating cause!!

Thanks to all those that provided their insights and suggestions to the
overheat problem with my newly rebuilt 455.  It turns out that the new
waterpump's impeller was not attatched to the shaft.  As I was removing it,
while being carefull not to hit the radiator, I lifted it by the flange and
over the core support and the impeller fell out of it and landed on my
foot...ouch!!...and a few more chosen words.  Well, at least I found the
cause and am glad to know it wasn't something I screwed up.


Glenn
'69 4-4-2
  

    4      4      22222
   44     44          2
  4 4    4 4        22
 44444  44444     22
    4     4      22222

------------------------------

From: John & Robin Whitcore <retrotek@phoenixat.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 08:20:33 -0300
Subject: Body Shop

Could anyone recommend a good body shop in the Orlando, FL area?

Thanks! ....j&r

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 18:17:53 -0300
Subject: BB in G-body...was Re: 455

>      To get to the confusing part, tho.  What is this going into; a Cutlass
> or an S-10?  The S-10 will need a different tranny to accomodate the BOP
> bolt pattern, and will require changing the lower motor mounts on the frame
> (which as far as I can tell requires pulling the lower control arms --or the
> firesaw-- to get to the mounting bolts. 
>      As for ~biggest~ there is the Caddy monsters out there, too.  I don't
> know anything about them, but I've heard about an outfit that makes kits to
> put a 472 in Monte's.  That would likely be similar.  


	MTS makes a kit to fit a 472 or 500 inch Caddy motor and TH-400 into 
78-88 G-bodies, so you could probibly do something similar.  I know they 
have a dual exhaust cross member for that tranny that would be the same 
if you were using a 455, since the Caddy uses the same BOP pattern TH-400 
(might have different tailshaft...dosn't matter either way).  If anybody 
wants the address for them, let me know.
	
			Scott
		1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 12:07:20 -0300
Subject: RE: `69 442 w/455 Engine

As far as I can tell the 455 was only available in the 69 Hurst Olds, =
(this was the option), regualr 442's all came with 400's. Anyone else?=20

- ----------
From: 	John & Robin Whitcore[SMTP:retrotek@phoenixat.com]
Sent: 	Saturday, June 22, 1996 5:35 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	`69 442 w/455 Engine

Hi!

We're the owners of a '69 442 w/ a 455. We noticed that any Olds=20
books/manuals we could get our hands on stated that the '69 442 was=20
only available with a 400 engine; except for one. Was the 455 actually=20
an option for the '69 442?

The "Oldsmobile 442 & W-Machines Restoration Guide" by Motorbooks=20
International lists the 455ci Performance Engine as 1969 Optional=20
Equipment (p90, Option L32). Our car also has a letter C cast on the=20
left and right cylinder heads as it says in the spotters tips for the=20
400ci engine.  The casting numbers on the engine denote a 455 between=20
`68 and `72 (396021-F).  We are just curious as to what we've got!

Thanks!=20

....j&r

------------------------------

From: Dana and Mary Taylor <dmtaylor@top.monad.net>
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 13:47:19 -0300
Subject: Re: You've done it before

Shawn M. Twomey wrote:

> >I have three
> >olds engines. I beleive them all to be 305's.
> 
> Blasphemer! I already appoligized for the blunder - very sorry - don't know what 
came over me.  Hope my Olds still starts after a mistake such as that!

> You should definitely check out the Olds FAQ, compiled from postings on this
> list by David Brown.  Let us know if you'd like it emailed to you, or if you
> have web access you can check it out from my home page:
> http://www.cps.msu.edu/~twomeyshThanks for the info, went there and downloaded it. Great page !

I have also just got a 78 Olds 350 w/ 3A on the heads from a Salon. Now i 
only have to read the FAG's to figgure the best way to go. As for budget, 
as usual it is somewhat limited. If I don't have to replace pistons etc I 
won't. Wife doesn't always see things the same as me. have headers on the 
307 in my Cutlass now. Will they fit the 350. I beleive they will but I 
need to ask anyway. Also the smogger 350 has an elderbrock al. manifold 
on it. Plan to use it on the finished engine. also anyone have 
suggestions on the type of cam to use. I dive 67 mi to work each way 50% 
of which is intersate highway. Would like economy but I am willing to 
sacrifice some for some balls. It gets boring and there is always someone 
 to pass!
 Thanks again.

------------------------------

From: Ken <rottin@en.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 19:34:56 -0300
Subject: Re: 1967 442

Lloyd Culp wrote:
 
> Congratulations!  You won't believe the fun you will have and the
> 
> Bill Culp
> Decatur, Alabama

  Thanks! :)

  Anyone know what details I can find out about with the tag on the firewall?
It reads:

     ST      67-33867     LAN     3786     BODY
     TR      975-B            P-2          PAINT
             W   2LG
             4F   5VY


 
Ken Holland
Cleveland, Ohio
'67 4-4-2 Convertible

------------------------------

From: John & Robin Whitcore <retrotek@phoenixat.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 16:48:10 -0300
Subject: Paint Jobs

We are comparison shopping for a new paint job for our 442.  What are 
your experiences with paint jobs and how much should we be paying for 
a good one?  Any advice?

....j&r

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 22:37:44 -0300
Subject: Re: Paint Jobs 

I live in the Detroit area and had a 72 W-30 painted and paid $4400.00
I had two NOS fenders and one quarter replaced.  The OAI hood was damaged and
it cost $520.00 alone to repair.  This car was from North Carolina and needed
little repair. 
The quarter was only a small section repair.  The car was completely striped
down to metal.  also I have the rear spoiler which was in premo shape.  I
used Glasorite paint products.  The car was painted with Base coat and Clear
coat and had a tintable sealer underneath it.  The W-30 stripes were also
painted on the hood and sides with the small pinstripe on the decklid.  The
car has a total of 3 coats Base and 7 coats Clear to give it a mirror finish.
 


72 W-30 Race Rocket
Mark Prince
 

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 22:57:46 -0300
Subject: Wanted: M/T Valve Covers 

Does anybody have a set of Mickey Thompson valve covers they would like to
sell???

Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 00:28:27 -0300
Subject: Re: 70 88 duals xman  

In a message dated 96-06-22 11:19:15 EDT, you write:

>According to both parts books, 98's had factory duals available from 65-69 &
>72-74, but not 70-71

Well, now, this got me thinking.  Referred to my sales manuals.  '69 98's
weren't available w/duals.  '69 88's could only have duals as part of the
390hp (L32) high performance engine.  That comes from the salesman's spec
book.  

Don't have a '70 spec book.  '70 Product Selling information book makes no
mention of duals on full-size cars.  But what's this... "Heat riser valve in
exhaust manifold eliminated from all V-8s."  Didn't I read something early
about the lack of a "butterfly"?

Hope this helps, but I guess it doesn't.  I'd gladly let you try the manifold
I have from a '66 Starfire, but my '67 98 is waiting patiently and it took me
a long time it.

Paul

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #212
********************************

