
oldsmobile-digest         Wednesday, 19 June 1996      Volume 01 : Number 208


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 18:24:04 -0300
Subject: RE: You gotta help me with this PUSH ROD problem

I would suggest getting a pushrod length checking tool ( any reputable =
cam shop sells them), this will verify if the pushrods are indeed wrong =
and if so it will give you the length you need then you just order a new =
set for about $40.Otherwise the only real way to tell what is the =
problem is to start disassembling your heads and check everything for =
signs of wear, something tells me that since you didn't change much in =
your engine that they pushrod length is not to blame. Are you getting =
oil up to the valvetrain? Valves adjusted to loose? etc.

- ----------
From: 	Fernando Proietto[SMTP:proietto@dow.on.doe.ca]
Sent: 	Monday, June 17, 1996 10:11 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	You gotta help me with this PUSH ROD problem

A little while back I asked about those adjustable push rods. Someone =
replied saying that=20
Modello had them but they carried a $200 price tag with them. Well, the =
stock push rods in=20
my '72 350 are causing some serious noise these days and getting worse. =
When I rebulit the=20
engine I began cutting back on the expense of the rebuild. I decided to =
ue my #5 heads and=20
just lap the valves instead of a rebuilding them. Also, I used the stock =
push rods.=20
Problem is that I used FelPros high performance head gasket, you know, =
the thick one with=20
a metal retainer around the piston opening. Well they are significantly =
thicker than the=20
stock metal head gasket and thus more room for the push rod to play in.=20

In any case the noise sounds pretty bad and so now I want to fix it. But =
before I go ahead=20
and order these expensive puppies can we try and diagnoise the problem a =
little more. This=20
is the history:

Back in 92-93 I rebuilt the '72 350 engine. I bored the cyliders 30 over =
and decked the=20
block for staraightness. No more than .005 was taken off.  Had the =
internals balanced and=20
used #5 heads. Also used Modello 16-18 cam with lifters and matching =
springs which came in=20
a kit. Just cleaned up the valves and lapped them, that's it. Used the =
high performance=20
FelPro head gasket and the stock push rods as they were straight and =
look useable. I=20
didn't count on them being like this today. Ordered new stock rockers =
and retainers.=20
Installed everything and after a little while the 'noise' was =
introduced. I even bought=20
new stock length push rods for the 350, which are still in the GM =
wrapping new unopened,=20
but I didn't have the heart to install them for fear that I was not =
solving the problem.

Now, what can be done, short of replacing the entire valve tarin? Can we =
discuss this a=20
bit?

Is this excessive tapping going to damage the cam? The car hasn't seen =
any driving yet as=20
the restoration is just coming to a finish. I start in in the winter and =
noe start it=20
every weenkend for a drive around the block, that's it. At most this =
engine has not more=20
than 100 miles on it since the rebuild.

Help me out guys I just want a quiet sounding engine, is this too much =
to ask for from an=20
olds...?


Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 19:01:01 -0300
Subject: Re: Starter problems

>From what I recall hearing, the heat causes resistance to increase in the 
solenoid's coil, rendering the small amount of power passed to it from 
the ignition switch ineffective.  The solution was to have a direct 
connection between the battery and solenoid, controlled by one of them 
Ford external type solenoids, thereby giving enough juice to fire the 
solenoid.  I had to use of on these solenoids to bypass my broken 
ignition switch using a starter button and haven ever had a problem with 
heat soak with my 455 Cutlass.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 19:06:44 -0300
Subject: RE: You gotta help me with this PUSH ROD problem

The wonders never cease.  Joe Mondello showed me an easy method to make 
an adjustable length-checking pushrod (and GASP avoid buying the one he 
sells)...take an old pushrod and cut in half. Tap out the inside of the 
oil passage for (1/4"?) threaded rod.  You can cut out a section in the 
center if you wish to use locknuts.  Screw both ends of the pushrod onto 
a piece of threaded rod and voila, an adjustable pushrod length checker.  
Seems commonsense and Im sure a lot of you out there knew it.  But it was 
interesting that Joe Mondello, the Olds salt himself, would show me how 
to do it for cheap-to-free rahter than his normal "buy my part # xxxx" 
answer.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 19:50:07 -0300
Subject: Re: Starter problems 

In a message dated 96-06-18 15:20:34 EDT, you write:

<< OK, fine.  So, if I'm following you correctly, the so called "heat soak" 
 problem is a problem with high temperatures affecting the solenoid 
 contacts?  The neurons seem a little agitated at this.  It would seem 
 slightly higher-tech contacts are in order.
  >>
 Mike:

I dunno what's causing the hard start when hot.  As I said, involved
electronics ain't my turf but the problem definitely exists.  

When the "heat soak" problem occurs, it is similar to bad connection
symptoms, i.e. a mild click and no crank, even "whines" a little.  As I said
it disappears when everything cools off.  

Is it common for contacts of this type to increase resistance when hot?
 Could it be a physical dimensions problem where the expansion will not allow
proper or complete contact?

Whatever the explanation, the kit seems to have solved the problem.

The _main_ reason I installed the kit was to get rid of that big, fat, hot,
unfused cable running 16 feet through my car!  I just sleep better.

You said it wouldn't be hard to fuse such a cable.  How, and how come it
isn't done?

Bob

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 13:39:05 -0300
Subject: Re: Grounding problems 

     Yup, sounds like a ground problem to me too.  I just had the center 
     console apart on my H/O to replace the pin switch on the center 
     console hatch (they're still available new from GM for a whole $1.40 
     for anyone who needs one).  With the lightning rods, my PRNOdD21 
     display is in the tach, but I still have the harness for the light 
     under the center console (held to the side by a peice of "factory" 
     duct tape, which of course is no longer sticky and crumbles if you 
     look at it crosseyed.  You can also see the saw marks where they 
     hacked the center console apart to fit the lightning rods.  Ahh, 
     quality control!).
     
     But anyways, what I noticed was that the storage compartment pin 
     switch has an orange wire that is always hot, and a black wire which 
     grounds to the frame near the shifters.  The unused plug was a black 
     wire (also ground) and a grey wire, which I'm sure is dash lights.  
     Get out the voltmeter and check (voltage should go up/down as you turn 
     the dash light dimmer).  Although with the turn signal and headlight 
     problems, it sure sounds like something bigger is wrong.
     
     If that common ground that both the pin switch and light use is 
     undone, then both lights would come on when you open the hatch.  The 
     shifter light would not go on any other way.


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Grounding problems
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    6/18/96 1:14 PM


Oh, the little light under my center console that lights up the PRNOD21 
lights doesn't work, unless I open the console hatch, activating both the 
compartment light (which it should)
AND the PRNOD21 display light, no matter if the headlights are on or not!  Doh!
     

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 00:31:56 -0300
Subject: Re: Starter problems

Paul R. K. Kuromoto wrote:
> 
> From what I recall hearing, the heat causes resistance to increase in 
> the solenoid's coil ...

That don't wash.  This would be the wire's temperature coefficient, 
virtually nill in copper wire.  Besides, the wire's resistance would 
decrease rather than increase.  More likely the heat melts the varnish 
coating on the armature wires, shorting some, with a resulting loss in 
efficiency.

> rendering the small amount of power passed to it from the ignition 
> switch ineffective.  

The power from the ignition switch to the solenoid is exactly the same as 
the voltage to the starter: 12VDC.

> The solution was to have a direct connection between the battery and 
> solenoid, controlled by one of them Ford external type solenoids, 
> thereby giving enough juice to fire the solenoid.

Interesting to note that Ford uses the positive engagement starter (with 
remote solenoid) in the smaller engines but uses the solenoid acutated 
starter on the big blocks.

> I had to use of on these solenoids to bypass my broken ignition switch 
> using a starter button and haven ever had a problem with heat soak with 
> my 455 Cutlass.

While I don't doubt for a minute that you guys have had great success 
with Bob H's approach, until I can heard a reasonable explaination for 
it, I'll have to continue to class it with human sacrifice to the volcano 
gods.  (It went out didn't it?)  But then, I'm like that.    ;)

BTW, these external devices are relays.  Solenoids are the winding and 
actuator part of a relay (without contacts).  And why do will still call 
the ignition capacitor a condensor, anyway?


The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 00:42:00 -0300
Subject: Re: Starter problems

BobH592058@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I dunno what's causing the hard start when hot.  As I said, involved
> electronics ain't my turf but the problem definitely exists.

Not trying to pin you down, Bob.  Just the problem.
 
> When the "heat soak" problem occurs, it is similar to bad connection
> symptoms, i.e. a mild click and no crank, even "whines" a little.  As I 
> said it disappears when everything cools off.

Granted.

> Is it common for contacts of this type to increase resistance when hot?
> Could it be a physical dimensions problem where the expansion will not 
> allow proper or complete contact?

Not electricly.  But you right, a warp of the contact bar MIGHT be behind 
it.
 
> Whatever the explanation, the kit seems to have solved the problem.

No doubt.  See Joe and the Volcano comment in the other post.

> The _main_ reason I installed the kit was to get rid of that big, fat, 
> hot, unfused cable running 16 feet through my car!  I just sleep 
> better.

As would I.
 
> You said it wouldn't be hard to fuse such a cable.  How, and how come 
> it isn't done?

Dunno. Suitable fuses and fuse holders have been available for... oh... 
50 years or so.  Why did the engineers at Ford mount every damn accessory 
in Jeannie's Lincoln to the water pump?  (I just changed it.  ARGH!) One 
of those great mysteries of life, I guess.  Like the heat soak.   ;)


The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: jsmith@radware.net (James Smith)
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 22:53:13 -0300
Subject: FW: [Fwd: [Fwd: Good Luck!]]

- ----------
From: 	John Timm[SMTP:johntimm@earthlink.net]
Sent: 	Monday, June 17, 1996 6:43 PM
To: 	(Recipient list suppressed)
Subject: 	[Fwd: [Fwd: Good Luck!]]

>Errors-To: mhoff@cris.com
>Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 18:07:39 -0500
>From: Michael Hoffmeyer <mhoff@cris.com>
>Reply-To: mhoff@cris.com
>To: johntimm@earthlink.net
>CC:
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t.sg;romeo"@kent.net
>Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: Good Luck!]]
>Content-Disposition: inline
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>From: laseps@en.com (Lorri Schneider) (by way of eyore@bright.net)
>Subject: Good Luck!
>X-Mozilla-Status: 0001
>
>>Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 06:58:15 -0400 (EDT)
>>X-Sender: dang38@mailbox.iwaynet.net
>>To: laseps@en.com
>>From: lclark@ATCON.COM (Linda D. Clark) (by way of dan <dang38@iwaynet.net>)
>>Subject: Good Luck!
>>
>>>X-UIDL: 833086711.001
>>>Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 12:48:28 +0800 (MYT)
>>>X-Sender: gkw@pop2.jaring.my
>>>To: lclark@atcon.com
>>>From: gkw@pl.jaring.my (Kelwin Goh)
>>>Subject: Good Luck!
>>>
>>>check out this!
>>>                     GOOD LUCK TOTEM
>>>                                              \\\|||///
>>>                                              =========
>>>                                              | O   O |
>>>                                                \v_'/
>>>                                            #   _| |_
>>>                                           (#) (     )
>>>                                            #\//|* *|\\
>>>                                            #\/(  *  )/
>>>                                            #   =====
>>>                                            #   (\ /)
>>>                                            #   || ||
>>>                                           .#---'| |----.
>>>                                            #----' -----'
>>>
>>>This message has been sent to you for good luck. The original is in New
>>>England. 
>>> It has been sent around the world nine times. The luck has now been sent to 
>>>you. You will receive good luck within four days of receiving this
message -- 
>>>provided you, in turn, send it on.  This is no joke.  You will receive good
>>>luck 
>>> in the mail -- but no money. Send copies to people you think need good
luck. 
>>>Don't send money as fate has no price.  Do not keep this message.
>>>This message must leave your hands in 96 hours. Please send ten copies and
>see 
>>>what happens in four days. The chain comes from  United States and was
>written 
>>>by Diana Li, a missionary from  Asia.  Since the copy must tour the world,
>you 
>>>must make ten copies and send them to friends and associates. After a few
>>days, 
>>>you will get a surprise.  This is true, even if you are
>>>not superstitious.  Good luck, but please remember: 10 copies of this
>>>message must leave your hands in 96 hours... You must not sign on this
>>>message...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>><----  End Forwarded Message  ---->
>>>
>>>
>>To Shorty
>>>From Beth
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 23:50:19 -0300
Subject: Re: FW: [Fwd: [Fwd: Good Luck!]] 

At 22:53 6.18.96 -0300, you wrote:
>>>>                     GOOD LUCK TOTEM
>>>>                                              \\\|||///
>>>>                                              =========
>>>>                                              | O   O |
>>>>                                                \v_'/
>>>>                                            #   _| |_
>>>>                                           (#) (     )
>>>>                                            #\//|* *|\\
>>>>                                            #\/(  *  )/
>>>>                                            #   =====
>>>>                                            #   (\ /)
>>>>                                            #   || ||
>>>>                                           .#---'| |----.
>>>>                                            #----' -----'
>>>>

not to be an ass, but...i am for good luck and chain letters and crap, but
please do not send another one of these...its just a waste of my time.

now on to olds stuff

the El Camino is gone...sold it this morning, $3900 more than doubled my
money, but i now have my eye set on a newer Elky...an 86 with a V6, but i
was doing some checking and it looks as if i could put a cutlass front on
it...and without the gaps and other problems associated with the model...and
since i could get it for cheap i would throw in a 307 and a 5 speed
tranny...sound good?
                        zack

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 23:54:04 -0300
Subject: Re: Starter problems 

In a message dated 96-06-18 20:50:25 EDT, you write:

<< Why did the engineers at Ford mount every damn accessory 
 in Jeannie's Lincoln to the water pump?  (I just changed it.  ARGH!) One 
 of those great mysteries of life, I guess. >>

Do they _still_ do that?!

In my younger days, needing extra money, I used to hire meself out to
friends, neighbors and the like for simple repair stuff (in the beginning).
 I distinctly remember an early 60's small block Ford with A/C.  What a
b---ch that water pump job was!  _Everything_, every accessory was attached
through, to or, it seemed, sideways to the front of the engine by bolts
ultimately going into the water pump.  I think one bolt was about 6 inches
long; trying to line up all those brackets, spacers, etc was a bear.  I was
lucky if I got minimum wage on that job.

The next worst was an Omni or Horizon which used an Audi/VW block and
Chrysler most everything else.

Experiences with these cars is what causes me to be pretty much all GM,
especially Olds.  Exception,. the Jeep Cherokees.  Bought them from AMC and
all the electrical accessories, steering column, shocks, etc. are GM, Dana 44
axels, New Process transfer case - tough beasts.  'Course Chrysler now uses
all their corporate stuff.  They look the same but they ain't.

I thought F*rd had learned some lessons.  Your wife's Lincoln seems to
indicate some old engineering habits die hard, like calling things solenoids
and condensers.

Bob Handren  OCA #7728
'67 W-30 Modified
'70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 00:01:38 -0300
Subject: Re: 83,84 H/O 85-87 442 

At 03:34 PM 4/11/96 -0300, Bill Gochenour wrote:>	Maybe these are not the
toughest muscle cars from the past but, 
>they sure look more unique and stand out better than any Monte 
>SS/I-ROC/and yes the Mustang that I've seen. The most important thing, 
>look around, there not on every street corner, that alone makes them 
>says something !

I can agree here. While the  83,84 H/O and 85-87 442's lack a great deal in
performance, they make up for it in their unique appearance. Only the Buick
GN's look meaner...and can back it up.


Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio					z28cfi@gwis.com
1988 Camaro IROC-Z/28 5.0 bowtie power			jlabay@phoenix.kent.edu
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25 5.7 rocket power
H/OCA member #0278A

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 19:12:33 -0300
Subject: Re: FW: [Fwd: [Fwd: Good Luck!]]

Buddha wrote:
> 
> At 22:53 6.18.96 -0300, you wrote:
> >>>>                     GOOD LUCK TOTEM
> >>>>                                              \\\|||///
> >>>>                                              =========
> >>>>                                              | O   O |
> >>>>                                                \v_'/
> >>>>                                            #   _| |_
> >>>>                                           (#) (     )
> >>>>                                            #\//|* *|\\
> >>>>                                            #\/(  *  )/
> >>>>                                            #   =====
> >>>>                                            #   (\ /)
> >>>>                                            #   || ||
> >>>>                                           .#---'| |----.
> >>>>                                            #----' -----'
> >>>>
> 
> not to be an ass, 
> now on to olds stuff
> 
>  i now have my eye set on a newer Elky...an 86 with a V6, but i
> was doing some checking and it looks as if i could put a cutlass front on
> it......and
> since i could get it for cheap i would throw in a 307 and a 5 speed
> tranny...sound good?
>                         zack Zack:

If you could do worse than Detroit or Tokyo or Stutgart or any of the 
others, then I would worry.  This sounds like a neat ride.  If I had 
time and money to experiment I would be ahead of you.

Bill Culp

PS:  Don't lose the good luck symbol, you may need it aroound this 
crowd.

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 00:37:03 -0300
Subject: Re: FW: [Fwd: [Fwd: Good Luck!]] 

At 19:12 6.18.96 -0300, you wrote:
>Buddha wrote:
>> 
>> At 22:53 6.18.96 -0300, you wrote:
>> >>>>                     GOOD LUCK TOTEM
>> >>>>                                              \\\|||///
>> >>>>                                              =========
>> >>>>                                              | O   O |
>> >>>>                                                \v_'/
>> >>>>                                            #   _| |_
>> >>>>                                           (#) (     )
>> >>>>                                            #\//|* *|\\
>> >>>>                                            #\/(  *  )/
>> >>>>                                            #   =====
>> >>>>                                            #   (\ /)
>> >>>>                                            #   || ||
>> >>>>                                           .#---'| |----.
>> >>>>                                            #----' -----'
>> >>>>
>> 
>> not to be an ass, 
>> now on to olds stuff
>> 
>>  i now have my eye set on a newer Elky...an 86 with a V6, but i
>> was doing some checking and it looks as if i could put a cutlass front on
>> it......and
>> since i could get it for cheap i would throw in a 307 and a 5 speed
>> tranny...sound good?
>>                         zack Zack:
>
>If you could do worse than Detroit or Tokyo or Stutgart or any of the 
>others, then I would worry.  This sounds like a neat ride.  If I had 
>time and money to experiment I would be ahead of you.
>
>Bill Culp
>
>PS:  Don't lose the good luck symbol, you may need it aroound this 
>crowd.

well...since the Bravada truck is going EXCELLENT...i was going to try my
hand at another olds custom creation...but i decided to just stick with the
truck...put a 455 in there and a muncie 4speed, yeah that sounds good
                        zack

------------------------------

From: ngomez@iadfw.net (Nick Gomez)
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 23:43:25 -0300
Subject: Changing Differential Fluid 

I saw them do it once on 'Shadetree Mechanic' a while back, so I know what
to do basically. I don't think my diff has a drain plug, so I'll have to
remove the bolts. Cool. Seems easy. There isn't a gasket, I use some sort
of silicone. Read that someone used synthetic fluid, will go that way I
think. I'm not sure if I have a limited slip diff, will check that out.
I'll have to ask the gratuitous question...any tips? =)
BeaTniK

     ------------------------------------------------------------------
     1965 Oldsmobile 98 Town Sedan   TIP # 1048   I Trade Live Concerts
     Always Buying Nirvana Items   MiSTie # 53344       Keep On Skankin
     ------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 00:42:52 -0300
Subject: Harland Sharp rockers.... 

I am considering using Harland Sharp roller rockers on a set of 7(a) heads
for my 403.  I understand that use have to use 7/16" studs and a set of
pushrod guide plate's.  Does anybody have any experience using these?? does
anybody recommend these??? They are a bit pricey, even from Summit ($217 for
the rockers, $27.50 for the studs, and $23.95 for the plates).  I would like
to get some input before I spend the cash...  Thanks for the help... Tom
Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 01:21:51 -0300
Subject: Re: You gotta help me with this PUSH ROD problem 

How much did you mill your heads.  If you milled the .030 and decked the
block, you 
probably need to shim your rockers.  Some people think you just have to
torque your 
rockers to 25lbs. If your pushrods look worn just buy stock TRW replacements.
 By the way the shims are from Crane.  But I also encourage you to take a
deeper look to the noise, such as even a bent pushrod or even broken pivots.
                                                                             

W Machines 

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 01:34:51 -0300
Subject: Re: Harland Sharp rockers.... 

best bet is to go with comp cam rockers from 351 ford.  easy to set up and
less costly
if any questions call Vance Brady at 313-928-7108. he use to race S/S
oldsmobiles from
68 to 72,  he also does machining on heads and blocks.  he is located in the
Metro Detroit area.   give him a call during the day but no later than 8:00
p.m. eastern 


w machines



(2) 72 w-30's
1 auto 
1 stick
have x in vin code

------------------------------

From: DrkSole@aol.com
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 02:29:47 -0300
Subject: test 

This is a test.
Have a 73 Olds.
DrkSole

------------------------------

From: DrkSole@aol.com
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 03:01:50 -0300
Subject: New on list, '73 Rally pac problems. 

Hi. I'm new to the list but have an Olds problem and need help.
I've got a '73 Cutlass Supreme and wanted to replace the idiot lights with a
'73 rally pack.
I bought a NOS piece from Fusick, but when I got it, it was only the
internals of the gauge, not the whole pod with the lens and circuit board.
The board on the light cluster won't fit, but I swapped the '73 Rally
internals into a '77 rally pack's pod. 
The board matched up, I changed the bulbs in it, changed the sending units,
hooked it up, turned the key, and got a buzzing from the relay on the fire
wall, the brake light wouldn't light up, even though the Parking brake was
engaged, the needles on the gauges all immediately went to the top of their
readings (read full tank, 250*, and 80 psi), and the interior light for the
cluster didn't work.  Any ideas on what's going on? I appreciate your help.
Thanx.
DrkSole

5.7 73 Cutlass Supreme.

------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <yu135008@yorku.ca>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 05:18:32 -0300
Subject: Re: EGR and Misc stuff.

>      For some clues on how the EGR relates to the ECM, you might want to 
>      check out http://ni.umd.edu:80/gnttype/www/malf.html.  These are the 
>      error codes for the turbo Regals, but many of them are the same for 
>      Olds engines.  Also check in a Chiltons manual or equivalent, it'll 
>      list error codes and their possible causes.  You'll be surprised at 
>      the number of codes that list faulty EGR as a possible cause.

Just a small note here.  The Buick has a more sophisticated EGR system
on its port injected V6 than the Olds 307.  The code 32 listed on the Regal
page doesn't apply to the 307 because the EGR valves are different.  In
fact, the only other code that may be set on the Buick, due to faulty EGR
operation, is DTC 45, which indicates that the car isn't responding to
attempts at increasing the oxygen content of the exhaust (constant rich
condition).  It is interesting to note that the Olds manual
doesn't mention EGR as a possible contributor to this error code.  Perhaps
the feedback EGR system in the Buick allows for more devastating modes of
failure.

Kevin

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 07:36:02 -0300
Subject: Dirty....

I found an article in a Super Chevy that features an Olds Rocket block 
buildup....They go on to talk about wouldnt it be nice to have a block 
better than the stock castings and even better than the Bowtie castings 
and doesnt require as much machining and etc...then
"Such a block exists, but there's one small problem with it that might 
upset hard-core Chevy enthusiasts: It's got an Oldsmobile Rocket emblem 
on the side.  But that's a little irritation that could be eliminated 
with a die grinder..."

Talk about dirty hehe...I mean give credit where credit's due!

Oh the article actually had some good information on this Olds 
block...the Rocket block is a smallblock that comes in two deck heights: 
9.025in standard deck, 9.325in tall deck.  It comes in dry- or wet-sump 
versions.  The wet sump versions come with a rear main bearing cap that 
you bolt an oil pump to, though you must drill your own lifter valley oil 
drainback holes.  Maximum bore for the Rocket block is 4.190in. There is 
no provision for an oil filter as the block was designed with dry sump 
applications in mind.  There are bosses to tap out for use with a 
remote-mount oil filter.  Main caps are steel, with #2,3,and 4 having 
splayed 4-bolt patterns.  The standard deck version uses a Chevy 350 type 
2.45in main bearing while the tall deck uses the Chevy 400 2.65in main 
bearing.  The cam is located .391 inch higher than in a normal Chevy 
smallblock to clear stroker cranks.  Cam journals are big-block Chevy 
sized so you have to order a cam specifically made for the Rocket block.  
You can use standard smallblock Chevy cam and crank sprockets but must 
order a special chain that is 2 links longer than stock.  Smallblock 
Chevy heads, intakes, and headers fit the Rocket.  The buildup used a 
4.155in bore with a 4in crank, 252/258 deg, .629/.582in cam, 11.2:1 
pistons, Bowtie single plane intakes and BG 850 double pumper carb.  
Displacement totalled 434ci.  With ported iron Bowtie heads, the engine 
made 560hp at 5500rpm and 567ft/lb torque at 5000rpm.  With ported 
18-degree race heads the engine made 672hp at 7000rpm and 596lb/ft at 
5250rpm!  Obviously a superior product, and it just so happens to bear 
the mark of excellence cast into the side.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 18:49:47 -0300
Subject: Re: You gotta help me with this PUSH ROD problem

O.K. this is what I'm going to do. I will use an old stock push rod and make it into an adjustable one, the way 
Paul and Chris (thank you) advised.  One question if I do thread for a 1/4" rod and I install it will this 
adjustable push rod can it withstand the engine at idle so that I can get to hear what my car sounds like without 
the the sound of the a full 20 piece orchestra. But wait, what about oiling? 

IDEA: If I do make these adjustable rods, couldn't I just drill a hole, same size as the oiling hole in the push 
rod into the thread insert, this way the push rod can be used just like a regular one. Would eliminate me buying 
them, especially if I can make them. What do you think? Or would it weaken the thread rod and cause the rod to 
bend?


Buy the way Paul, your suggestion about the Comp Cam kit. Do you or anyone have a part number I can go by. I'd 
really like to explore this possibility. What about the cam, if I replace the lifters with the ones that come in 
the kit. I would think even after such little use there already exists a wear pattern on the cam so by replacing 
the lifters wouldn't it cause the cam to wear prematurely? Not that it won't happen with these rods tapping 
away...


- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 12:51:24 -0300
Subject: Re: test

DrkSole@aol.com wrote:
> 
> This is a test.
> Have a 73 Olds.
> DrkSole

Sorry, can't grade your test without seeing your work.  Please forward 
worksheet on 73 Olds.  Grades will be posted Friday.


Dean of Emissions    ;)


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 18:59:27 -0300
Subject: Re: You gotta help me with this PUSH ROD problem

WMACHINES@aol.com wrote:
> 
> How much did you mill your heads.  If you milled the .030 and decked the
> block, you
> probably need to shim your rockers.  Some people think you just have to
> torque your
> rockers to 25lbs. If your pushrods look worn just buy stock TRW replacements.
>  By the way the shims are from Crane.  But I also encourage you to take a
> deeper look to the noise, such as even a bent pushrod or even broken pivots.
> 
> 
> W Machines

I didn't mill the heads, I left them stock. If I shim the rockers, wouldn't that raise them and thus 
cause a larger tolerance between the rocker pivot and the push rod? 

I took the rocker cover off to inspect the valve train and noticed either pistion #3 or #5 push rod 
very loose. I could move it up and down with my fingers. The rockers and the retainer were torqued 
down and not loose. I no rod was bent or worn from the upper end either.

- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: Frank Boerger <103454.317@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 10:27:27 -0300
Subject: Re: test

DrkSole@aol.com wrote:
> 
> This is a test.
> Have a 73 Olds.
> DrkSole

>Sorry, can't grade your test without seeing your work.  Please forward 
>worksheet on 73 Olds.  Grades will be posted Friday.


>Dean of Emissions    ;)


What would you be if this were a night school ?

Dean of Nocturnal Em.........u-h-h-....

Frank Boerger
'68 Convertible

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 10:53:48 -0300
Subject: Re: test

> Dean of Nocturnal Em.........u-h-h-....
> 
> Frank Boerger
> '68 Convertible

Gee Frank, you wouldn't be (currently or originally) from Boston, would ya?

On Sunday evenings one of the DJs on WBCN FM (Oedipus I think) used to have
a show called 'Nocturnal Emissions', featuring alternative stuff.... and more
than once they mentioned how they got their name :)

Of course, adolescent males often encounter this phenomenan while dreaming
of gorgeous women -- driving Oldsmobiles :)



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'88 Cadillac Brougham, a.k.a. 'Big Blue' -- Olds 307 Powered!!
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 09:54:26 -0300
Subject: Re: FW: [Fwd: [Fwd: Good Luck!]] 

>not to be an ass, but...i am for good luck and chain letters and crap,

Well, I'm not. I thought of pointing out all the logical fallacies, etc.,
in the original posting and sending it back to everyone who was listed in
the headers, but there's no way to tell which ones really believe that
junk and which are innocent victims who got copied, plus explaining it
all to someone who couldn't figure it out in the first place would be
a waste of time...

>but please do not send another one of these...its just a waste of my time.

Second that. This list has been amazingly free of idiot spam up to now
and I would hate for that to change. If I'm going to be the designated
grump today who says what (hopefully :-) others are thinking, that's fine.
And I promise to stick more closely to the Olds topic in future, too.

(I can picture Greg reading this stuff late after his return and thinking,
"Jeez, I leave these guys along for _one_ _week_ and this is what I get...")

Andrew C. Green
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498

------------------------------

From: <clint@boto.netherworld.org>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 11:10:39 -0300
Subject: Re: FW: [Fwd: [Fwd: Good Luck!]]

On Tue, 18 Jun 1996, Buddha wrote:

> the El Camino is gone...sold it this morning, $3900 more than doubled my
> money, but i now have my eye set on a newer Elky...an 86 with a V6, but i
> was doing some checking and it looks as if i could put a cutlass front on
> it...and without the gaps and other problems associated with the model...and
> since i could get it for cheap i would throw in a 307 and a 5 speed
> tranny...sound good?

Yup, it will surely work.   Someone did the GN thing to an Elky and it was
sweet!!!!  An Olds one woudl be even better.  However, don't waste your
time with the '86.   Get a '78.    That's the first year of the small
(A/G-body) Elky and the last year that trucks didn't have to have ANY
emissions stuff on it.   Go get a '78 and put a 455 into it!!!

Clint

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 13:55:22 -0300
Subject: Re: test

Frank Boerger wrote:
> 
> What would you be if this were a night school ?
> 
> Dean of Nocturnal Em.........u-h-h-....


HA!


The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 10:08:20 -0300
Subject: Re: New on list, '73 Rally pac problems. 

>The board on the light cluster won't fit, but I swapped the '73 Rally
>internals into a '77 rally pack's pod.

I think I got a bit lost at this point, but I'll take a stab at this one
as I had a '76 Supreme with the rally pack a while back... (BTW, do you
have the really nice 4-spoke Rally steering wheel as well? :-)

>The board matched up, I changed the bulbs in it, changed the sending units,
>hooked it up, turned the key, and got a buzzing from the relay on the fire
>wall, the brake light wouldn't light up, even though the Parking brake was
>engaged, the needles on the gauges all immediately went to the top of their
>readings (read full tank, 250*, and 80 psi), and the interior light for the
>cluster didn't work.  Any ideas on what's going on?

First thing I would check is that the board wiring matches the pins on the
harness connector plugging in the back. This is stretching a bit, but as
another example of this problem, you can't simply swap the gauge cluster
into the dash of a later Cutlass ('78 up) that came with the rectangular
speedo and fuel gauge; although the parts fit together physically, you
need to swap around some of the wires in the plug connector first.

Second possibility I'd look for is a bad or nonexistent ground in the area,
since you're seeing stuff in the same area quit working for no apparent
reason. I forget which way the gauge pegs when its field voltage is lost,
but I kind of think this is another symptom of no ground for the gauge
cluster. Check it out... Good luck.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 14:20:41 -0300
Subject: Re: FW: [Fwd: [Fwd: Good Luck!]]

Andrew C. Green wrote:
> 
> >but please do not send another one of these... 
> Second that. 

THIRD THAT!

> If I'm going to be the designated grump ...

Me! Me!  I'll be the grump!


The SPAM 66 SPAM Toro and SPAM Mike, SPAM, EGGS, AND SPAM

Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam....


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Joanne Beausoleil <jbeausol@ftp.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 11:20:55 -0300
Subject: RE: test

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB5DC9.0119D360
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I always wondered what CEOs did all day...

- ----------
From: 	Mike Frederick[SMTP:edison3@cpeq.com]
Sent: 	Wednesday, June 19, 1996 11:51 AM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Re: test

DrkSole@aol.com wrote:
> 
> This is a test.
> Have a 73 Olds.
> DrkSole

Sorry, can't grade your test without seeing your work.  Please forward 
worksheet on 73 Olds.  Grades will be posted Friday.


Dean of Emissions    ;)


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649





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------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 10:24:09 -0300
Subject: Re: Grounding problems 

>     Yup, sounds like a ground problem to me too.

Hello, and welcome to Ground Week on the Oldsmobile List.  :-)
     
>     But anyways, what I noticed was that the storage compartment pin 
>     switch has an orange wire that is always hot, and a black wire which 
>     grounds to the frame near the shifters.

Yup, ground for the storage compartment light, since it's all plastic in
that area.

>    The unused plug was a black 
>     wire (also ground) and a grey wire, which I'm sure is dash lights.

It would normally connect to the backlighting bulb for the prindle (PRNDL)
quadrant faceplate on the console shifter, which you don't have with the
lightning rods.

>     Get out the voltmeter and check (voltage should go up/down as you turn 
>     the dash light dimmer).

Voltage between the gray wire and a known ground, yes. Also check that the
black wire really works as a ground.

>     If that common ground that both the pin switch and light use is 
>     undone, then both lights would come on when you open the hatch.  The 
>     shifter light would not go on any other way.

That's possible. If the ground is shared by the prindle light and the 
console, and it breaks (i.e. comes detached from the body, but the wiring
connecting the two bulbs is still intact), current flow through the console
light will flow through the common ground to the prindle light (essentially
going backwards), back through _its_ supply wire which is also supplying
all the other dash backlighting bulbs on the same circuit, and eventually
find a ground through them. The net effect is you've got the console bulb
wired in series with all the dash backlighting bulbs (as a group); however
I think the bulb could still light normally, since all the other bulbs in
parallel further down the line can function collectively as a ground (i.e.
they wouldn't visibly glow).

I'll leave it to Mike Frederick to work this all out and carefully explain 
where I went wrong ;-), but basically it does only takes one bad ground to 
make a lot of circuits go bonkers.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 10:33:53 -0300
Subject: Re: Grounding problems 

>The net effect is you've got the console bulb
>wired in series with all the dash backlighting bulbs (as a group); however
>I think the bulb could still light normally, since all the other bulbs in
>parallel further down the line can function collectively as a ground (i.e.
>they wouldn't visibly glow).
>
>I'll leave it to Mike Frederick to work this all out and carefully explain 
>where I went wrong ;-)

BZZZT. Hold on, Mike, I see the first mistake already; the glove box 
light would be in series with the first backlighting bulb (that one in 
the console), then with all the others on the backlighting circuit as a
group. So I guess if the console and first backlighting bulb are the
same, resistance-wise, they'd both glow at half-brightness... 

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 14:59:24 -0300
Subject: Re: Grounding problems

Andrew C. Green wrote:
> 
> BZZZT. Hold on, Mike...

Standing by for any further updates...

The 66 Toro and Mike

- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 10:58:55 -0300
Subject: Re: Grounding problems 

>> BZZZT. Hold on, Mike...
>
>Standing by for any further updates...

*groan*  Why, what else did I screw up?

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 12:45:26 -0300
Subject: Re: Changing Differential Fluid 

1) Get a gasket, forget the silicone RTV bead.
2) Take the gasket and diff code (from build sheet, diff tag) to the parts 
store to match gaskets.
3) Clean the gray goop out of the bottom of the diff.
4) Torque the bolts in a pattern like a trans pan.
5) Check for leakage after a couple days of running.  To retorque, use a 
non hardening gasket dressing, like Hylomar, instead of RTV.
6) Amsoil 100% synthetic 80w-90 has been fine for 3 years in my '77s open 
diff.

Have fun.  Except for tracking down the correct gasket, this is one of the 
easier jobs.  Although you mitaswel clean the rust off the pan, and paint it.  
The cancer stops there though!

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    "Oldsmobile - powerful roadsters with big V8s"
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
- ---------------------

I saw them do it once on 'Shadetree Mechanic' a while back, so I know what
to do basically. I don't think my diff has a drain plug, so I'll have to
remove the bolts. Cool. Seems easy. There isn't a gasket, I use some sort
of silicone. Read that someone used synthetic fluid, will go that way I
think. I'm not sure if I have a limited slip diff, will check that out.
I'll have to ask the gratuitous question...any tips? =)
BeaTniK

------------------------------

From: SG Hartfelder <shartfel@planet.eol.net>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 12:34:58 -0300
Subject: Re: test

DrkSole@aol.com wrote:
> 
> This is a test.
> Have a 73 Olds.
> DrkSole

Your test worked!

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 12:52:32 -0300
Subject: Re: FW: [Fwd: [Fwd: Good Luck!]] 

At 11:10 6.19.96 -0300, you wrote:
>
>On Tue, 18 Jun 1996, Buddha wrote:
>
>> the El Camino is gone...sold it this morning, $3900 more than doubled my
>> money, but i now have my eye set on a newer Elky...an 86 with a V6, but i
>> was doing some checking and it looks as if i could put a cutlass front on
>> it...and without the gaps and other problems associated with the model...and
>> since i could get it for cheap i would throw in a 307 and a 5 speed
>> tranny...sound good?
>
>Yup, it will surely work.   Someone did the GN thing to an Elky and it was
>sweet!!!!  An Olds one woudl be even better.  However, don't waste your
>time with the '86.   Get a '78.    That's the first year of the small
>(A/G-body) Elky and the last year that trucks didn't have to have ANY
>emissions stuff on it.   Go get a '78 and put a 455 into it!!!
>
>Clint
>

ok thanks for the idea...i'll look around for it...by the way how tough is
it to put a 455 in a G body?  since the S-10 has the same front end and
almost the same total frame is it possible?
                                zack

------------------------------

From: clark@sh28.dseg.ti.com (Pat Clark 952-3776)
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 13:21:09 -0300
Subject: 66 Toro Article

Double checked the issue (BOP) that contains the 66 Toro article. It is the 
February 95 issue. The phone number for this mag is 504 926-6954 and fax #
924-5456. Couple of color pictures and a few B&W. Not a lot of tech info on the
car. Good Luck

 				Pat Clark
    				 69 442
    			        400/TH400
    			  clark@abu.dseg.ti.com

     The careful application of terror is also a form of communication.

------------------------------

From: Doug McClanahan <mcclan@wsdot.wa.gov>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 13:38:42 -0300
Subject: TV on PBS

I don't know if this info is good for all of America but for the Puget 
Sound Region (of Washington State) I have the following info straight 
form PBS:

From: brool
To: mcclan
Subject: Re: "America on Wheels" documentary
Date: Tuesday, June 18, 1996 4:34PM

         America On Wheels will air weekly beginning July
         19, at 9pm.
         Thanks,
         brool@kcts.org

Let's hope for some good info!!!

Doug
mcclan@wsdot.wa.gov

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 17:34:13 -0300
Subject: Re: Grounding problems

Andrew C. Green wrote:
> 
> *groan*  Why, what else did I screw up?


Nothing.  Just waiting for final phrasology.  It made perfect sense to 
me.


The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 17:37:09 -0300
Subject: Re: TV on PBS

Doug McClanahan wrote:
> 
> America On Wheels will air weekly beginning July 19, at 9pm.

Cool!  Thanks.


The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 17:38:41 -0300
Subject: Re: test

Joanne Beausoleil wrote:
> 
> I always wondered what CEOs did all day...

Play with our stock options.     ;)


The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 14:13:38 -0300
Subject: Re: TV on PBS 

>> America On Wheels will air weekly beginning July 19, at 9pm.
>
>Cool!  Thanks.

Well, it's only a 3-part series to begin with, isn't it? Am I the only 
one who saw Part 2 of the current broadcast on Monday night? (I watched
it on WTTW Ch. 11 in Chicago.) For us, Part 3 will be on next Monday, 
June 24th at 8:00 pm CST. Anyone else have that in their TV Guides?

I assume the July 19th date is when _that_ affiliate has decided to
broadcast it, but that might not hold true everywhere. And I should
mention that in the 30 seconds or so devoted to the Coming Attractions
in Part 3, they showed a clip of a first-generation Toronado, very nice.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Shawn M. Twomey" <stwom@ctp.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 15:27:11 -0300
Subject: No EGR + computer 

>I'd imagine that the PROM contains lookup tables that would help tailor the
>ignition timing for engine rpm, MAP sensor reading, TPS signal, and
>coolant temperature.  This spark table probably also takes EGR usage into 
>account....  Since the distributor is adjustable, it may be
>the case that a couple degrees of retard may be enough to prevent
>detonation in your no EGR application, although this would not provide an 
>optimal spark curve.

OK, let me see if I have this.  With the stock computer, lets forget about
the engine swap and say I just put the new manifold on with no EGR.  The
combustion, at times when the EGR would normally be operating, would be sped
up and might cause pinging, because the spark timing tables in the PROM take
into account the retarding effect of the EGR.  I could retard the
distributor to compensate, however I would be at a different (sub-optimal)
point on the timing curves, especially at points (like WOT) when EGR
wouldn't normally be operating (ie the spark would be TOO retarded).

>Let us know what they say about custom PROMs and high performance
>Olds engines!
 
>Hypertech      1-800-762-3504

I talked to TJ from Hypertech for a while.  He said that it was possible to
program a PROM for no EGR, but that they were legally unable to do so.
According to him, my best bet if I wanted to use the computer would be to
retard the distributor until there was no pinging problems, and they could
program a chip with an optimal spark curve-BUT only at WOT.  He said they
were legally unable to change anything the WOT parameters.  I asked about an
"off-road" type setup, but no deal.  I was disappointed and started thinking
about trading this manifold for a newer, EGR one, but....

>Z-industries dealer:
>               Evergreen Performance (602-443-3333)

I talked to John at this number, he was much more helpful.  He said it was
no problem, making a chip with no EGR provisions would be easy, and he was
going to call somebody about being able to program the whole thing for
optimal performance with my particular setup.  I'm supposed to call him back
with the PROM revision number on the chip that I've got.  He made it clear
that this chip would only be legal for off-road use.

>Superchips programming Dealer:
>               Ed Wright Automotive  (918-446-3019)

These guys apparently only make chips for fuel-injected applications.  Bummer.

>Kevin Wong

Thanks Kevin and everyone.  Somebody please let me know if I've gotten
derailed in my thinking somewhere (again).

__________________________________________________________________________
Shawn M. Twomey     |  "No!  Try NOT!  Do, or do not.  There is no try."
stwom@ctp.com       |  -Yoda
__________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

From: Jeff Stanish <stanishj@svpal.org>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 15:51:37 -0300
Subject: Re: TV on PBS

Here in Campbell (near San Jose, CA), we have seen Parts 1 and 2 on a PBS 
station from San Francisco (KQED) on the past 2 consecutive Monday nights, 
also, with Part 3 (of 3 parts) airing this coming Monday, 6/24, at 9 p.m. 
PDT.  We also have access to 2 other PBS stations, one in San Jose, and 
another in San Mateo, CA, who will probably run it sometime, also.  

It has been very informative.  My husband, who is the resident car nut, 
loves watching these programs and yelling out the make, model, and year 
of almost EVERY car he sees!!  If he isn't doing that, he tests me on my 
knowledge of past technological marvel as they whiz by on the screen!!
(I have even been known to spot old Oldsmobiles on the t.v. before HE does!!)

I enjoy all your postings, even wading through many of the technical 
ones, as I am usually the one weeding out the prodigious E-mails we get 
as subscribers to this Olds list.

Sherie & Jeff Stanish
'69, '75, & '79 H/Os

On Wed, 19 Jun 1996, Andrew C. Green wrote:
 
> Well, it's only a 3-part series to begin with, isn't it? Am I the only 
> one who saw Part 2 of the current broadcast on Monday night? (I watched
> it on WTTW Ch. 11 in Chicago.) For us, Part 3 will be on next Monday, 
> June 24th at 8:00 pm CST. Anyone else have that in their TV Guides?
> 
> I assume the July 19th date is when _that_ affiliate has decided to
> broadcast it, but that might not hold true everywhere. And I should
> mention that in the 30 seconds or so devoted to the Coming Attractions
> in Part 3, they showed a clip of a first-generation Toronado, very 
nice.       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^         
             Caught that, too, should be good.

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 15:44:14 -0300
Subject: RE: You gotta help me with this PUSH ROD problem

Hey thats a preety cheap tool.I can't beleive Joe would do that, he must be getting old. How's th oil pan working out?

- ----------
From: 	Paul R. K. Kuromoto[SMTP:suntzu@ohana.com]
Sent: 	Tuesday, June 18, 1996 8:06 AM
To: 	Chris Urban
Cc: 	'oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca'
Subject: 	RE: You gotta help me with this PUSH ROD problem

The wonders never cease.  Joe Mondello showed me an easy method to make 
an adjustable length-checking pushrod (and GASP avoid buying the one he 
sells)...take an old pushrod and cut in half. Tap out the inside of the 
oil passage for (1/4"?) threaded rod.  You can cut out a section in the 
center if you wish to use locknuts.  Screw both ends of the pushrod onto 
a piece of threaded rod and voila, an adjustable pushrod length checker.  
Seems commonsense and Im sure a lot of you out there knew it.  But it was 
interesting that Joe Mondello, the Olds salt himself, would show me how 
to do it for cheap-to-free rahter than his normal "buy my part # xxxx" 
answer.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 16:06:56 -0300
Subject: RE: You gotta help me with this PUSH ROD problem

I can't say for sure but I would think the rods would be far to weak to =
actually be RUN in an engine after they were modified in this way. I was =
wondering maybe you misunderstood our meaning slightly. When this =
pushrod is made its only used in an engine to do a measurement with the =
engine apart. Once the correct size is established you should order the =
proper length set from the manufacturer. Also you can always put new =
lifters on an old cam because they will wear to the cams wera pattern =
its just not adviseable( although its been done a lot) to use old =
lifters on a old cam if they are not re- installed on the exact lifter =
bores they wore in together on.


- ----------
From: 	Fernando Proietto[SMTP:proietto@dow.on.doe.ca]
Sent: 	Tuesday, June 18, 1996 5:49 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Re: You gotta help me with this PUSH ROD problem

O.K. this is what I'm going to do. I will use an old stock push rod and =
make it into an adjustable one, the way=20
Paul and Chris (thank you) advised.  One question if I do thread for a =
1/4" rod and I install it will this=20
adjustable push rod can it withstand the engine at idle so that I can =
get to hear what my car sounds like without=20
the the sound of the a full 20 piece orchestra. But wait, what about =
oiling?=20

IDEA: If I do make these adjustable rods, couldn't I just drill a hole, =
same size as the oiling hole in the push=20
rod into the thread insert, this way the push rod can be used just like =
a regular one. Would eliminate me buying=20
them, especially if I can make them. What do you think? Or would it =
weaken the thread rod and cause the rod to=20
bend?


Buy the way Paul, your suggestion about the Comp Cam kit. Do you or =
anyone have a part number I can go by. I'd=20
really like to explore this possibility. What about the cam, if I =
replace the lifters with the ones that come in=20
the kit. I would think even after such little use there already exists a =
wear pattern on the cam so by replacing=20
the lifters wouldn't it cause the cam to wear prematurely? Not that it =
won't happen with these rods tapping=20
away...


- --=20
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 15:58:45 -0300
Subject: RE: Harland Sharp rockers....

Harland Sharp are quality rockers. The main thing to rember when =
selecting rockers is that a) they must be the proper ratio and b) you =
must have the proper stud in your head for them ( keep in mind that any =
size stud can be inserted with little difficulty). One cheap( sometimes =
) source for Olds roller rockers are SB Ford engines, there are a =
zillion 5.0 Mustangs out their so they can be easily found.

- ----------
From: 	OLDSPWR@aol.com[SMTP:OLDSPWR@aol.com]
Sent: 	Tuesday, June 18, 1996 11:42 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Harland Sharp rockers....

I am considering using Harland Sharp roller rockers on a set of 7(a) =
heads
for my 403.  I understand that use have to use 7/16" studs and a set of
pushrod guide plate's.  Does anybody have any experience using these?? =
does
anybody recommend these??? They are a bit pricey, even from Summit ($217 =
for
the rockers, $27.50 for the studs, and $23.95 for the plates).  I would =
like
to get some input before I spend the cash...  Thanks for the help... Tom
Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com

------------------------------

From: eda@dl.tc.faa.gov
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 16:27:26 -0300
Subject: Re: T-top locks (was 83,84 H/O 85-87 442) 

Um, what are these, and where can I get them?!?  Sounds like something I'm 
looking for (in fact, just mentioned it to Tom L. this morning!) - a removable
lock mechanism?  Or is it?

Ed Atlee			'77 Cutlass Supreme
eda@dl.tc.faa.gov		'84 Hurst/Olds
	R O C K E T	P O W E R E D ! !

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 15:47:42 -0300
Subject: Re: T-top locks (was 83,84 H/O 85-87 442) 

>Um, what are these, and where can I get them?!?  Sounds like something I'm 
>looking for (in fact, just mentioned it to Tom L. this morning!) - a removable
>lock mechanism?  Or is it?

Huh. I thought I was going to be able to tell you, "See J.C. Whitney page
so-and-so for an illustration," but I can't find a listing for them.

Anyhow, there's a backing plate and a cover involved for each T-top. You
take the chrome release handle off, drill a couple of mounting holes in
the trim panel and install this heavy steel backing plate; there's a hole
where the release shaft projects through, and you reattach the release
handle as usual. To lock it, you have a rectangular steel cover which
covers the entire release handle and whose edges tuck into the edge of
the backing plate, forming a steel cover over the whole release handle.
A tubular ACE key lock in the middle turns a threaded bolt in the cover
which screws into a hole in the backing plate just above the handle to
secure it. Locking and unlocking takes only half a minute per lock, max,
and when the T-tops were off I simply tossed the lock covers into the 
center console.

I forget whether they had a brand name stamped on them anywhere -- Bryce's
manager has the car now so maybe he can take a closer look -- but I've
seen them on other cars so I think with a little hunting you can find them.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Shawn M. Twomey" <stwom@ctp.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 17:33:23 -0300
Subject: Adjustable rocker arms & screw-in studs 

Is there great benefit to getting adjustable rocker arms & screw-in studs?
I'm thinking about them for my 350-can anyone say whether or not they've
used them in the past and why or why not?  Does Mondello sell them (I have a
catalog on the way)?

Thanks,

__________________________________________________________________________
Shawn M. Twomey     |  "No!  Try NOT!  Do, or do not.  There is no try."
stwom@ctp.com       |  -Yoda
__________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 20:39:54 -0300
Subject: Re: 66 Toro Article

Pat Clark 952-3776 wrote:
> 
> Double checked the issue (BOP) that contains the 66 Toro article.

Hate to be a dork here but where would one find BOP 
(Buick-Olds-Pontiac?) anyway?


The 66 Toro and Mike

 
- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 20:46:20 -0300
Subject: Re: Grounding problems

Andrew C. Green wrote:
> 
> I'll leave it to Mike Frederick to work this all out and carefully 
> explain where I went wrong.

Looks good to me, Andy.  Without a wiring diagram, I'd just be guessing 
anyway.  But, yeah, you loose a ground and those damn electrons keep 
going until they find one somewhere.  Don't seem to care what they light 
up or what gauges the screw over.

("Mike Frederick?  Wasn't he the dork that kept shouting 'Grounds, 
grounds, grounds'?")


The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 02:50:46 -0300
Subject: Re: PUSH ROD problem

So after I make this push rod how do I go about checking for the correct rod length. I install the modified push rod and set 
the length...then what? Will I need a guage or do I listen (with car idling) and adjust the length until the noise stops?

What if I use a very strong metal threaded rod made of like lets say 'nitroloy' ?

Does anybody know how the adjustable push rods are made and what metal is used? How about cutting a sleeve of stainless 
steel stock and press fitting one end onto the cut end of the push rod and threading the other end on both the sleeve and 
the push rod to insert into each other, voila an adjustable push rod? Just a few ideas going through my mind right now, 
since I have a tool/die shop at my disposal I can't see why can't make this stuff instead of buying it? How hard can it be 
to make these things? 

- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: clark@sh28.dseg.ti.com (Pat Clark 952-3776)
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 17:54:06 -0300
Subject: Re: 66 Toro Article

> Hate to be a dork here but where would one find BOP 
> (Buick-Olds-Pontiac?) anyway?
> 
> 
> The 66 Toro and Mike
> 
>  
> -- 
> Michael R. Frederick, CEO

It's not BOP anymore, it is now called GM collectors guide because they started
covering all GM makes. I dropped my subscription almost a year ago after they 
had the format change (Camaros! Geeyak!) so I don't know if they are even around
anymore. Try calling their phone number (504) 926-6954 or fax 924-5456 and see
if they can help you out, you dork! ;-) (man, I haven't heard that in years!)

PS - I was wondering when all you other Toro-heads were going to ask about this
     article. BTW - the car in the feature is "Tropic Turquoise", very pretty
     IMO.

 				Pat Clark
    				 69 442
    			        400/TH400
    			  clark@abu.dseg.ti.com

     The careful application of terror is also a form of communication.

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 10:37:17 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Harland Sharp rockers.... 

     I'm curious now, can you give any details on the ford roller rocker 
     swap?  This sounds like something good to include in the FAQ!  What 
     size of stud do they use, or does it vary with the rocker?  Are they 
     the same overall length, and do they fit under the stock covers fine?

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: RE: Harland Sharp rockers....
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    6/19/96 12:38 PM

Harland Sharp are quality rockers. The main thing to rember when = 
selecting rockers is that a) they must be the proper ratio and b) you = 
must have the proper stud in your head for them ( keep in mind that any = 
size stud can be inserted with little difficulty). One cheap( sometimes = 
) source for Olds roller rockers are SB Ford engines, there are a = 
zillion 5.0 Mustangs out their so they can be easily found.

------------------------------

From: Jennifer Wood <wooda@cadvision.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 19:22:04 -0300
Subject: I'm just clueless 

Hey everyone :)

Okay - I have a question that hopefully someone can help me out with...I am
not a car expert, or an Oldsmobile expert - but I just bought a 1986 Olds
Calais, and ended up getting in an argument with the insurance lady when I
went to go register it, over the name of my car.  

On the car manual, it says "1986 Oldsmobile Calais", and all over the
interior is written "Calais" and on the outside it says "Calais".  But the
insurance lady  wrote up my registration card as saying "Cutlass Calais".  I
asked her to change it because I said it is not a Cutlass.  Now I know that
some Calais are considered Cutlass Calais, like the 1984 one.  But did they
change that somewhere along the line? Because of all the documentation that
came with my car, *nothing* mentions the word Cutlass!!!  The insurance lady
was very rude, and insisted that it was indeed a Cutlass...but I just don't
know.  

Does anybody know if Oldsmobile stopped considering a Calais a type of
Cutlass?  It isn't some big issue that's going to change my life or
anything, but I really would love to know the story behind this. :)

Thanks!

Jennifer Wood
wooda@cadvision.com

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #208
********************************

