
oldsmobile-digest          Thursday, 20 June 1996       Volume 01 : Number 209


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 18:30:28 -0300
Subject: Re: I'm just clueless 

>On the car manual, it says "1986 Oldsmobile Calais", and all over the
>interior is written "Calais" and on the outside it says "Calais".  But the
>insurance lady  wrote up my registration card as saying "Cutlass Calais".  I
>asked her to change it because I said it is not a Cutlass.  Now I know that
>some Calais are considered Cutlass Calais, like the 1984 one.  But did they
>change that somewhere along the line? Because of all the documentation that
>came with my car, *nothing* mentions the word Cutlass!!!  The insurance lady
>was very rude, and insisted that it was indeed a Cutlass...but I just don't
>know.

I do: Your insurance lady is an idiot.  :-)

First of all, the VIN (serial number) of the car _will_ identify what it
is to the insurance company's computers, who (which :-) presumably generate
your insurance quote. If she completely misclassifies it, the damage may be
limited because the VIN is what counts, not the name scribbled in the blank.

Now then, the older Cutlass Calais was a submodel of the rear-wheel-drive
Cutlass Supreme. Your Olds Calais is, if I'm reading this right, a FRONT-
wheel-drive model related to the Buick Somerset. The biggest, easiest
distinction to make is by which end drives the car.

Rear Wheel Drive: Cutlass Supreme (for 1986)
Front Wheel Drive: Cutlass Ciera (for 1986; similar to Chevy Celebrity,
Pontiac 6000 and Buick Century)
Front Wheel Drive: Calais (for 1986; similar to Buick Somerset Regal)

You could also refer the nice lady to an Olds dealer for clarification.

>Does anybody know if Oldsmobile stopped considering a Calais a type of
>Cutlass?

It's not the model name so much as what "platform" it's based on, as
broken down above.

>It isn't some big issue that's going to change my life or
>anything,

Financially it might, although sooner or later the powers that be at
the insurance agency may figure out what you're supposed to be paying
one way or another. Hopefully they will err in your favor, but you never
know. Best to get it straightened out _now_, not later. Good luck!

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 19:39:58 -0300
Subject: need 403 help

OK, installing the "good, running 403" [yeah, with cracked head, bad carb,
etc.] into a 75 Cutlass... Got it semi-rebuilt... other heads, new timing set,
better cam, paint job...

Finally got it all in and fired it up today. Mechanically sound, the usual
litany of foibles in startup... and a couple unusual.

Won't pump its own fuel... Hmmm., used fuel pump, replace it with the known
worker off the old 350... Still no fuel to the carb- the 403's original carb.
Tap on carb to loosen needle/ seat... wonder if fuel pump eccentric was
omitted... nope. get fuel flowing from disconnected line, then attach it to
carb. Now it runs... get timing checked... Ooops, now fuel comes out the top of
the carb! All over the new paint... Stuck OPEN needle/ seat... dang.

OK, stick the 350 carb on there... Did it have leaky well plugs? Fuel in the
intake's recess after removal...? dunno. Anyhow, install 350's known runner on
the 403, start it up, seems to run OK. Idles, get choke set to perfection.
Funny, the timing mark, about 20 degrees at 100 rpm, like manuals say...
actually moves DOWN just a bit [retards a bit] just after throttle is open...
The vacuum routing was a bit hard to figure, I used a 78 Pontiac manual for the
403 carb, and then the 75 Cutlass's diagram for the 350's carb. Weird that the
350 info calls for the dist'r and trans to be hooked together into the same
vacuum line- I thought one was usually ported vacuum, other straight intake
vacuum.
  All is well with the world. Or so it seems...

Client places car in gear...  and it dies. Again & again. Tape off the brake
vacuum... it still behaves the same. Hmmm... I'm wondering if the vacuum
routing is the root of this difficulty...

Any hints, suggestions, etc.?

Next up: vacuum signal analysis, find out which ports are intake vacuum, which
are ported, maybe try hooking up the dist'r vacuum like a '68... ported carb
right to dist'r, or thru a TVS, feeding it ported at low temps and full at high
temps.... and trans straight to intake vacuum.
  I do have a 75-76 manuals, too, can check for specifics from the factory
recommendations.
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 19:43:33 -0300
Subject: Race car

Race car report is back...

14's    :(

He says it *runs* GREAT, is very happy with that aspect, but the trans is now
goofing, costing him time. I knew that trans was screwed up... on the street
drive, it kept hunting for a gear or surging at about 35 mph... weak vacuum
from that rowdy cam? Still it's a 'race-prepped' cam supposedly, and on full
throttle runs, ought to perform adequately. Then there's that broken mounting
ear, might just be time to redo that trans. I know that engine will do better
than 14's, criminy, the tuckered 425, with less cam, did 13.56.
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 20:03:28 -0300
Subject: Re: You gotta help me with this PUSH ROD problem 

In a message dated 96-06-19 15:56:29 EDT, you write:

<< Also you can always put new lifters on an old cam because they will wear
to the cams wera pattern its just not adviseable( although its been done a
lot) to use old lifters on a old cam if they are not re- installed on the
exact lifter bores they wore in together on >>


Years ago ol' Smokey Yunick let it be known that he reused lifters.  The item
to look for is that the bottom of the lifter _MUST_ still be convex, i.e. a
positive crown.  If they are flat or worn concave, i.e. negative crown, DON"T
USE THEM.

I've reused lifters in good shape a bunch of times.  Which lifter bore they
came out of should not be an issue as long as the bottom has a crown.  The
lifter will wear with the cam. 

You're right, old lifters on old cam (an original pairing not just used) MUST
go in the same way they came out.

If you don't feel comfortable doing this of course use new lifters. But
hi-perf lifters are not as cheap as "stock".

Bob Handren

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 20:03:18 -0300
Subject: Re: Harland Sharp rockers.... 

In a message dated 96-06-19 15:56:29 EDT, you write:

<< One cheap( sometimes ) source for Olds roller rockers are SB Ford engines,
there are a zillion 5.0 Mustangs out their so they can be easily found. >>

Ok, I'm interested in this possibility.  What other changes, materials are
needed to install F*ord roller rockers in an Olds?  I assume some kind of
guide plates are needed.  What kind of studs are used?

On a related note, a fellow down here wants to know if it is possible to
install Olds roller lifters in older blocks, in this case a '66 400.  Will
they fit?  I assume a roller lifter cam would be required.

Roller lifters and roller rockers should free up quite a few ponies in an
olds big block Olds.

Bob Handren OCA #7728
'67 W-30 Modified
'70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 20:02:35 -0300
Subject: Re: Changing Differential Fluid 

In a message dated 96-06-19 11:41:16 EDT, you write:

<< 
 1) Get a gasket, forget the silicone RTV bead. >>


Hmm, I guess the _bathroom_ white RTV (hey, it's what I had at midnight and
all the stores were closed) I used on the '67 15 years ago is no good.  I've
even removed the W-27 cover several times to replace lube, change gears, etc.
 Just bolt it back on and it has _never_ leaked a drop, needed a new gasket
or any additional RTV.  

RTV is OK if you use it right, like keeping it out of the gears, bearings,
engine oil pump, etc.  Use sparingly and on appropriate jobs it the greatest
thing since sliced you know what.

Why take codes, tags, etc to the store?  Just take the old gasket or the
cover.
The tag, if any, Olds used codes stamped on the driver side axel tube, is
probably missing, the codes can be rusted off, etc.  The only tag I've seen
is for posi rears and need for posi friendly lube.

A big agreement on scooping out _all_ the old lube including the gray stuff
on the bottom.  BTW that grey stuff is pulverized metal from gears, bearings,
etc.

Bob Handren  OCA #7728
'67 W-30 Modified
'70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 22:32:17 -0300
Subject: RE: Harland Sharp rockers....

On a related note, a fellow down here wants to know if it is possible to
install Olds roller lifters in older blocks, in this case a '66 400.  =
Will
they fit?  I assume a roller lifter cam would be required.

Roller lifters and roller rockers should free up quite a few ponies in =
an
olds big block Olds.

Do you mean lifters or rockers that we have been talking about? at any =
rate yes a roller cam is a must. Roller lifters should fit the above =
engine --no problem but all lifters must be checked for clearance in the =
lifter bores as older part numbers will require block machining to fit =
properly.

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 22:16:18 -0300
Subject: RE: PUSH ROD problem

I would think that since you have a tool/die shop at your disposal =
making your own pushrods would be easy.  High perf pushrods are made =
from chrome moly tubing and are one piece ( some have the ends pressed =
on). What you would do is install your pushrod length checking tool and =
adjust it till the proper amount of preload is established. Then you =
must visually inspect the motion of the rocker tip passing over the stem =
of the valve. The tip should stay as close to the center of the valve as =
possible throughout the sweep of the rocker. The engine is rotated =
manually very slowly. If the rocker tip moves closer to one edge of the =
vale then the pushrod must be correspondingly lengthened or shortened =
till it stays (approx.) in the center. When you feel that the rocker =
sweep is in the proper location on the valve remove the pushrod and =
measure it. Now you have the length you need. Obviously this is much =
easier with roller tip rockers than conventional ones. Now depending on =
how radical your engine is would dictate which pushrod material to go =
with. Chrome moly is about 4 times as expensive as steel pushrods and =
are only needed in instances of cam lift exceeding approx. .570 lift or =
springs that have more than 300 lbs. open pressure.

- ----------
From: 	Fernando Proietto[SMTP:proietto@dow.on.doe.ca]
Sent: 	Wednesday, June 19, 1996 1:50 AM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Re: PUSH ROD problem

So after I make this push rod how do I go about checking for the correct =
rod length. I install the modified push rod and set=20
the length...then what? Will I need a guage or do I listen (with car =
idling) and adjust the length until the noise stops?

What if I use a very strong metal threaded rod made of like lets say =
'nitroloy' ?

Does anybody know how the adjustable push rods are made and what metal =
is used? How about cutting a sleeve of stainless=20
steel stock and press fitting one end onto the cut end of the push rod =
and threading the other end on both the sleeve and=20
the push rod to insert into each other, voila an adjustable push rod? =
Just a few ideas going through my mind right now,=20
since I have a tool/die shop at my disposal I can't see why can't make =
this stuff instead of buying it? How hard can it be=20
to make these things?=20

- --=20
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 22:25:26 -0300
Subject: RE: Race car

Chris is this the same engine that recently gernaded itself? What gear, =
tire and weight  is that car running? What type of trans is it? Are you =
going to tear into it? If its a TH400 I have tons of parts for them if =
you need anything in particular.

- ----------
From: 	Chris Brown Witt[SMTP:wittchri@pilot.msu.edu]
Sent: 	Wednesday, June 19, 1996 6:43 PM
To: 	wittchri@pilot.msu.edu; oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Race car

Race car report is back...

14's    :(

He says it *runs* GREAT, is very happy with that aspect, but the trans =
is now
goofing, costing him time. I knew that trans was screwed up... on the =
street
drive, it kept hunting for a gear or surging at about 35 mph... weak =
vacuum
from that rowdy cam? Still it's a 'race-prepped' cam supposedly, and on =
full
throttle runs, ought to perform adequately. Then there's that broken =
mounting
ear, might just be time to redo that trans. I know that engine will do =
better
than 14's, criminy, the tuckered 425, with less cam, did 13.56.
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 22:29:06 -0300
Subject: RE: need 403 help

Client places car in gear...  and it dies. Again & again. Tape off the brake
vacuum... it still behaves the same. Hmmm... I'm wondering if the vacuum
routing is the root of this difficulty...

Any hints, suggestions, etc.?

How much vacumn do you have at idle? Did you say you replaced the cam or timing gear set?

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 22:21:54 -0300
Subject: RE: Re[2]: Harland Sharp rockers....

Ford roller rockers stud sizes vary just as SB Chev sizes vary depending =
on what type of engine they were used on. The overall length is =
identical as is the ratio, and they will fit under most aftermarket =
valve covers ( taller the better). I've never tried them under a stock =
valve cover but this is an easy thing to modify by installing more than =
one gasket under them. Up until quite recently they even had the same =
part number and could be ordered considerably cheaper when specifing =
Ford instead of Olds, but like everyone else these days the manufactures =
got wise and now have different part numbers.

- ----------
From: 	Tom Lentz[SMTP:tlentz@teknon.com]
Sent: 	Wednesday, June 19, 1996 9:37 AM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Re[2]: Harland Sharp rockers....


     I'm curious now, can you give any details on the ford roller rocker =

     swap?  This sounds like something good to include in the FAQ!  What =

     size of stud do they use, or does it vary with the rocker?  Are =
they=20
     the same overall length, and do they fit under the stock covers =
fine?

______________________________ Reply Separator =
_________________________________
Subject: RE: Harland Sharp rockers....
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    6/19/96 12:38 PM

Harland Sharp are quality rockers. The main thing to rember when =3D=20
selecting rockers is that a) they must be the proper ratio and b) you =
=3D=20
must have the proper stud in your head for them ( keep in mind that any =
=3D=20
size stud can be inserted with little difficulty). One cheap( sometimes =
=3D=20
) source for Olds roller rockers are SB Ford engines, there are a =3D=20
zillion 5.0 Mustangs out their so they can be easily found.

------------------------------

From: "Meyer I. Stolberg" <mas@cci.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 22:40:12 -0300
Subject: Re: Oil of Calais: When is a Cutlass not a Cutlass

> On the car manual, it says "1986 Oldsmobile Calais", and all over the
> interior is written "Calais" and on the outside it says "Calais".
...
>
> Does anybody know if Oldsmobile stopped considering a Calais a type of
> Cutlass?

In between 1985 and 1991, Oldsmobile's FWD N-body was called the 'Cutlass
Calais'.  That was the term used in all the sales literature and on the actual
vehicle sticker.

Meyer
Former  Owner 1988 Oldsmobile Cutlass Calais	engine: Quad4-150 hp LD2
Current Owner 1991 Oldsmobile Cutlass Calais	engine: Quad4-190 hp LG0 (W-41)

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 00:32:49 -0300
Subject: Re: T-top locks (was 83,84 H/O 85-87 442) 

At 04:27 PM 6/19/96 -0300, eda@dl.tc.faa.gov wrote:
>
>Um, what are these, and where can I get them?!?  Sounds like something I'm 
>looking for (in fact, just mentioned it to Tom L. this morning!) - a removable
>lock mechanism?  Or is it?
>
>Ed Atlee			'77 Cutlass Supreme
>eda@dl.tc.faa.gov		'84 Hurst/Olds
>	R O C K E T	P O W E R E D ! !

I got an 85 Cutlass Salon in my tow yard with what looks like factory t-top
locks built into the hatch.


Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio					z28cfi@gwis.com
1988 Camaro IROC-Z/28 5.0 bowtie power			jlabay@phoenix.kent.edu
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25 5.7 rocket power
H/OCA member #0278A

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 02:24:19 -0300
Subject: 455 

is there a way to put a 455 in a 78-88 Cutlass?  i am asking this because
the S-10 has the same front clip as the cutlass and am wanting soem SERIOUS
power...and if it would be a pain in the ass, what is the largest engine
that i can put in there w/o too much trouble...better yet, what was the
largest engine offered in these years
                                Zack

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 08:51:06 -0300
Subject: Re: Changing Differential Fluid

I had success with a RTV-only gasket on my Chevy 12-bolt...Just make sure 
to go completely around the bolt holes.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: Joanne Beausoleil <jbeausol@ftp.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 09:01:53 -0300
Subject: RE: I'm just clueless

I remember seeing a picture of someones 86 olds Cutlass Supreme on one =
of the web pages, which looked exactly like mine (except for the grill =
inserts) and the picture was labelled 86 olds Cutlass Calais. I thought =
it was a type-o. Maybe it isn't? I will try and find it and send out the =
url.

- ----------
From: 	Andrew C. Green[SMTP:acg@frame.com]
Sent: 	Wednesday, June 19, 1996 5:30 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Re: I'm just clueless

>On the car manual, it says "1986 Oldsmobile Calais", and all over the
>interior is written "Calais" and on the outside it says "Calais".  But =
the
>insurance lady  wrote up my registration card as saying "Cutlass =
Calais".  I
>asked her to change it because I said it is not a Cutlass.  Now I know =
that
>some Calais are considered Cutlass Calais, like the 1984 one.  But did =
they
>change that somewhere along the line? Because of all the documentation =
that
>came with my car, *nothing* mentions the word Cutlass!!!  The insurance =
lady
>was very rude, and insisted that it was indeed a Cutlass...but I just =
don't
>know.

I do: Your insurance lady is an idiot.  :-)

First of all, the VIN (serial number) of the car _will_ identify what it
is to the insurance company's computers, who (which :-) presumably =
generate
your insurance quote. If she completely misclassifies it, the damage may =
be
limited because the VIN is what counts, not the name scribbled in the =
blank.

Now then, the older Cutlass Calais was a submodel of the =
rear-wheel-drive
Cutlass Supreme. Your Olds Calais is, if I'm reading this right, a =
FRONT-
wheel-drive model related to the Buick Somerset. The biggest, easiest
distinction to make is by which end drives the car.

Rear Wheel Drive: Cutlass Supreme (for 1986)
Front Wheel Drive: Cutlass Ciera (for 1986; similar to Chevy Celebrity,
Pontiac 6000 and Buick Century)
Front Wheel Drive: Calais (for 1986; similar to Buick Somerset Regal)

You could also refer the nice lady to an Olds dealer for clarification.

>Does anybody know if Oldsmobile stopped considering a Calais a type of
>Cutlass?

It's not the model name so much as what "platform" it's based on, as
broken down above.

>It isn't some big issue that's going to change my life or
>anything,

Financially it might, although sooner or later the powers that be at
the insurance agency may figure out what you're supposed to be paying
one way or another. Hopefully they will err in your favor, but you never
know. Best to get it straightened out _now_, not later. Good luck!

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 09:11:48 -0300
Subject: Synthoil trash talk

Okay checked my source again on synthetic oils and bearings.  Supposedly, 
synthetic oils contain chorine compounds, chlorates, etc. and these are 
reactive with the copper in the second layer of engine bearings.  
Supposedly, in highgly stressed engines, this causes SHORTER bearing life 
(a claim supposedly backed up by visual aids supplied to the source).  
Accordingly, professional drag racing teams and Winston Cup teams do not 
use synthetic oil in their racing engines.  They may carry the 
sponsorships but the crankcases are filled with mineral oil, which does 
not adversely affect the structure of the bearings.  Supposedly, bean oil 
(castor?) was experimented with before and was also found to be an 
effective racing lubricant.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: Joanne Beausoleil <jbeausol@ftp.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 09:27:36 -0300
Subject: Calais or Cutlass Calais

Actually,  I lied. It was an 84 Cutlass Calais. Here is the url =
http://www.cjnetworks.com/olds/noframesreg/jadcock.html. I only =
remembered the Calais as being the little fwd thing, but, I am not an =
expert.

------------------------------

From: "Bruce D. Brumm" <bdbrumm@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 13:44:03 -0300
Subject: Re: T-top locks

Jason P. Labay wrote:

> >Um, what are these, and where can I get them?!?  Sounds like something I'm
> >looking for (in fact, just mentioned it to Tom L. this morning!) - a removable
> >lock mechanism?  Or is it?
> >
> >Ed Atlee                       '77 Cutlass Supreme
> >eda@dl.tc.faa.gov              '84 Hurst/Olds
> >       R O C K E T     P O W E R E D ! !
> 
> I got an 85 Cutlass Salon in my tow yard with what looks like factory t-top
> locks built into the hatch.
> 
> Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio                                        z28cfi@gwis.com
> 1988 Camaro IROC-Z/28 5.0 bowtie power                  jlabay@phoenix.kent.edu
> 1975 Hurst/Olds W-25 5.7 rocket power
> H/OCA member #0278A

My '86 Salon has factory T-'s with locks built into the hatch.  They use the same
round lock key as the doors, glovebox, and trunk.  I haven't taken the plastic trim
cover off to examine the mechanism, but when locked, you sure couldn't get those tops off 
without breaking somthing!

- -- 

Bruce D. Brumm (bdbrumm@ix.netcom.com)
Network & Systems Administrator
LDM Technologies, Inc.
Troy, MI

'84 Cutlass Supreme 307-Y
'86 Cutlass Salon 307-Y

------------------------------

From: idaholc@primenet.com (Bill Goodnight)
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 10:58:44 -0300
Subject: Re: TV on PBS 

At 03:51 PM 6/19/96 -0300, oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca wrote:
>Here in Campbell (near San Jose, CA), we have seen Parts 1 and 2 on a PBS 
>station from San Francisco (KQED) on the past 2 consecutive Monday nights, 
>also, with Part 3 (of 3 parts) airing this coming Monday, 6/24, at 9 p.m. 
>PDT.  We also have access to 2 other PBS stations, one in San Jose, and 
>another in San Mateo, CA, who will probably run it sometime, also.  
>
>Jeff:  I don't know if I reported to you about my trip to your country.
Thanks for the tip.  I spent about three hours with Larry Ewing talking
Olds, and he gave me the name of a couple of other 49-50 Olds nuts.  Bill
Harrison of San Jose had just put a Nova clip on a 49 Coupe and Tom Queening
of San Jose has a completed powder blue 50 Coupe with a 455 and a custom
fabricated front end.

Bill Goodnight
Boise, Idaho
idaholc@primenet.com
 

------------------------------

From: J.Easton@zds.com (Jeff Easton)
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 09:37:51 -0300
Subject: Re: 83, 84 H/O 85-87 442

From: clark@sh28.dseg.ti.com (Pat Clark 952-3776)
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 13:38:44 -0300


>> Ever notice how the Monte Carlo SSs on the street seem to look awfully
>> beat up for their age?
>> 
>> Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431

>I think the relatively higher price and lower performance placed most of the 
>mid 80's 442 into the hands of more caring and mature owners. The montes have 
>all of those extra airdams and such (ala mustang GT) that always seem to warp 
>and get broken. This has a tendency to contribute to their "ragged out" 
>appearance. The 442 package was much more tastfully done (IMOP) and has aged 
>much better.
>
>                                Pat Clark

  Okay, I'll admit that I had a '88 Monte SS for a few years.  I finally ended 
my ch*vy therapy sessions when I ditched it in favor of the 442 :-)

  I bought my SS from a used car lot in Michigan (car being a fresh trade right 
out of Utah).  I drove it to a body shop the next day and got it repainted.  
These cars seem to have the worst excuse for a paint job I've ever seen.  
Hopefully the 442's were built in a different plant than my car (Arlington Tx) 
and maybe got a better coat of paint.

  My car also had T-tops, with locking handles.  The keys I got never worked in 
the locks though, and thankfully, they were unlocked.  After the usual 
adjustments, they didnt leak too bad, but I primarily drove it on sunny days 
with the tops off anyway.

  The SS only had a front Airdam/nose extension and I havent seen too many 
broken ones.  No other ground effects were used on the car.

  You see alot more SS's around than 442's probably because a lot more were 
made.  My neighbor has a '87 442 that he is running into the ground.  I keep 
kidding my friends that I'm gonna buy it off him once he's done trashing it, 
just to get the 15x7 wheels. :-)

- -Jeff Easton
Zenith Data Systems

1970  442 4-speed  (routinely trounces SS's :-)

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 11:45:11 -0300
Subject: MOnte's and 442's 

there is a point to haveing more monte's than 442's out there...but most of
the 442's i have seen have been beat to hell...there is an 86 here that
looks like he swerved across the road and rode the guard rail...and he is
just letting it rust and rust and rust....there is a good friend of mine who
collects and restore 442s  when he first buys them they are usually runnign
ragged.  from what he's said thats the way most of them are...because the
people who have had them dont love their oldsmobiles.  those of us here are
just a drop in the bucket compared to the rest of the world who could give a
damn about an oldsmobile
                        zack

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 11:53:48 -0300
Subject: Re: Harland Sharp rockers.... 

In a message dated 96-06-19 21:44:38 EDT, you write:

<< On a related note, a fellow down here wants to know if it is possible to
 install Olds roller lifters in older blocks, in this case a '66 400.  Will
 they fit?  I assume a roller lifter cam would be required. >>


Hmmm, reading my own post - I forgot that 66-67 400s used the "big" lifter.
 Are there roller lifters (such as diesel) that will work for these?

>>Do you mean lifters or rockers that we have been talking about?

I am asking about _both_ and whether they can be used in a BB Olds for both
the small and large lifter engines, both lifter angles as well.  So, that
means cam availability too.

Assuming roller lifters fit, are there any other parts or modifications
needed to install them?  Do they use guide plates over the lifter bores or
are they the type with extensions down either side of the cam lobe, i.e. self
centering?

>>all lifters must be checked for clearance in the lifter bores as older part
numbers will require block machining to fit properly.

What do you mean.  Of course the correct lifter diameter must be used.  But
are you saying a measurement other than bore size vs. lifter diameter is
needed?  I know some roller lifters require a groove to be machined in the
bore so that a projection in the lifter rides in the groove.  This to keep
the roller centered over the cam lobe.  I thought that OEM roller lifters
centered themselved by using extensions down both sides of the cam lobe.
 I've never seen an Olds engine so worn out that the lifter bores needed
anything.  With the exception of a neglected, rusted block which I would pass
on anyway.  Are you talking about any "unusual" measurement?

Thanks.

Bob Handren

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 11:54:03 -0300
Subject: Re: TV on PBS 

In a message dated 96-06-20 10:01:59 EDT, you write:

<<  Bill Harrison of San Jose had just put a Nova clip on a 49 Coupe >>


Oh no! The Olds will start an organ transplant rejection any minute!

<<Tom Queening of San Jose has a completed powder blue 50 Coupe with a 455
and a custom fabricated front end.

All right for the 455! (Olds I presume.)

Bob Handren  OCA#7728
'67 W-30 Modified
'70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 11:53:23 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Harland Sharp rockers.... 

In a message dated 96-06-19 21:44:40 EDT, you write:

<< Ford roller rockers stud sizes vary just as SB Chev sizes vary depending
on what type of engine they were used on. The overall length is identical as
is the ratio, and they will fit under most aftermarket valve covers ( taller
the better). I've never tried them under a stock valve cover but this is an
easy thing to modify by installing more than one gasket under them. Up until
quite recently they even had the same part number and could be ordered
considerably cheaper when specifing Ford instead of Olds, but like everyone
else these days the manufactures got wise and now have different part
numbers.
  >>

OK, so I order SB F*rd roller rockers with a 1.6 ratio either with the studs
which are the same as the stock Olds thread (which is pretty small) or the
larger thread and drill and tap my heads (makes me more comfortable).  Is
this correct??

I am still not sure that is all I need.  The Olds is not designed for free
floating rockers a la SBC and SBF.  Don't I also need guide plates of some
kind for the pushrods???

Bob Handren  OCA#7728
'67 W-30 Modified
'70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 11:53:10 -0300
Subject: Re: Synthoil trash talk 

In a message dated 96-06-20 08:19:13 EDT, you write:

<<  Supposedly, bean oil 
 (castor?) was experimented with before and was also found to be an 
 effective racing lubricant.
  >>

That _OLD_ fairy tale just won't die, will it?  Never mind the ability to
perform the function of a lubricant, these oils support life.  If you would
like mold, mildew and bacteria thriving in your engine, go for it.  Sure, if
you drive it every day and get it hot enough this will slow growth down but
unless you want to achieve autoclave sterilizer temperature and pressures,
bugs will survive and multiply over time.  So the bugs will not only break
down castor or bean oil, the bugs themselves are not a lubricant.

I think the origin of this may go back to WWII when oil & gas were rationed
or outright unavaliable.

Bob Handren  OCA #7728
'67 W-30 Modified
'70 SX Convertible.

------------------------------

From: eda@dl.tc.faa.gov
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 12:10:54 -0300
Subject: Re: New on list, '73 Rally pac problems. 

Ooooh...I like '73s - getting mighty rare around here, or I'd prob. own one.
Anyway, regarding the rallye pack prob, gotta agree with Andy...this is a
way different animal, but when I was fixing the tach on my '84 and I went to
put the dash back together, I had similar light problems, guages pointing to infinity, etc; turned out I had routed a wire wrong (think the optical sensor for the speedo) and it was preventing the guages from making good contact with the copper running through the flimsy plastic thing...

I think the 73 would have more like a wire harness that connects to the back of the pack, but same principle...wires dont match, bad connection...now, what's on that damned rally pack, I've still got one sitting around, no sending units tho...:-(...okay, fuel, temp, oil pressure...that's more difficult, I was going to suggest playing around with a digital multimeter, but that's tough unless you know what to look for, like when you have a battery charge guage, you can at least label the wire that's reading 12V (or 13.8, or whatever).  I would guess, though, that the wire/wires for the temp. guage would gradually give a climbing/descending reading as the car warms up, whereas fuel should stay steady as long as you're at idle.  Oil pressure, maybe high on cold start, fluctuate w/ idle speed, etc, and should be lower after a hard run.  Separating oil press. from gas might be hard as those gas guages fluctuate a good deal with engine speed, etc.

Ed Atlee			'77 Cutlass Supreme
eda@dl.tc.faa.gov		'84 Hurst/Olds
	R O C K E T	P O W E R E D ! !

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 11:27:17 -0300
Subject: Re: New on list, '73 Rally pac problems. 

>I think the 73 would have more like a wire harness that connects to the 
>back of the pack, but same principle...

Okay, somewhere someone needs to find a wiring diagram. The wires going
into the plug(s) to the back of the gauge cluster will be color-coded.
Map out which wire does what -- match its color to that of the wiring
diagram, etc.

Next, follow the traces on the printed circuit from the plug contacts
to wherever they go. A little patience and careful eyesight is all you
need. Several traces will probably feed several things, such as backlight
power to one or two bulbs, gauge field voltage, and ground (or maybe two)
that will snake all over the place.

So then see if your plug layout agrees with the socket layout on the
back of the gauge cluster; rearrange leads in the plug as appropriate.
Make sense?

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 21:41:57 -0300
Subject: Re: PUSH ROD problem

Is there a way I can check that the lifters are functioning properly, without taking off the intake or am I asking for too much now?
Common guys/gals reach into your bag of tricks and tell me how? And nothing that involves a rabbit.

On a more serious note, what if I use the push rod to try and pump up the lifter by hand. Can that tell me if the HYD lifter is 
working? My oil gauge tell me that at idle all time the oil pressure is approximately 50 psi and when cold it reach near 75 psi. My 
vaccuum is also good, but if a few lifters were bad these wouldn't be good indicators right? I dread the thought that a camlobe has 
worn, hence the extra play.

- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 11:36:40 -0300
Subject: Re: New on list, '73 Rally pac problems. 

>>I think the 73 would have more like a wire harness that connects to the 
>>back of the pack, but same principle...
>
>Okay, somewhere someone needs to find a wiring diagram. The wires going
>into the plug(s) to the back of the gauge cluster will be color-coded.
>Map out which wire does what -- match its color to that of the wiring
>diagram, etc.

BTW, I don't mean to make this sound like brain surgery because the colors
don't change from year to year; e.g. the backlighting circuit has been
gray for, what, decades now. So if the original poster, if he's still
awake by now :-)  wants to post the list of colors he finds in the plug,
we all can probably tell him which wire does what.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: eda@dl.tc.faa.gov
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 12:51:28 -0300
Subject: Re: T-top locks 

Thanks for the info, Andy, I think I understand the description.  Sounds like minimal modification required, and just the fact of the screw-in type lock might take long enough for a t-top thief to get nervous and look for something easier!

If anyone knows of a supplier for these, give a holler...I'll keep checking Whitney (got that lifetime subscription, ya know ;-) but I don't recall ever seeing them in there (ever being the past year or so...=)

Ed Atlee			'77 Cutlass Supreme
eda@dl.tc.faa.gov		'84 Hurst/Olds
	R O C K E T	P O W E R E D ! !

------------------------------

From: "Shawn M. Twomey" <stwom@ctp.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 12:52:20 -0300
Subject: 

>ok thanks for the idea...i'll look around for it...by the way how tough is
>it to put a 455 in a G body?  since the S-10 has the same front end and
>almost the same total frame is it possible?

Big block will go in a G body, and I saw an S-10 -> Bravada truck conversion
this weekend with a small block, so its almost a sure bet the BB will go in.

__________________________________________________________________________
Shawn M. Twomey     |  "No!  Try NOT!  Do, or do not.  There is no try."
stwom@ctp.com       |  -Yoda
__________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

From: "Shawn M. Twomey" <stwom@ctp.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 13:09:04 -0300
Subject: Grounds 

>How about making up a long
>piece of wire with alligator clips on either end, then using it to
>join random large metal objects (e.g. dash frame to firewall, dash
>frame to engine block, engine block to negative battery terminal)
>and see when the problem goes away?

Yes, thanks Andy, I'm going to do that this weekend.  Question:  could all
this be caused at the battery?  Say, if the negative terminal wasn't hooked
up real strong due to corrosion or whatever, or some internal malfunction of
the battery itself-it IS only two or so months old.  I forgot to mention
(duh!) that the ammeter gauge has been reading low-I had been ignoring it
becuase I thought the gauge was busted-but since the grounding problems it
reads much lower than normal, never gets out of the "red zone" in fact.
That should drain the battery fairly quick if that were accurate, but I
haven't seen that at all.  Does the low voltage reading indicate
battery/terminal problems, or is it just another effect of the entire wacky
system.  I suppose the gauge itself is probably underpowered like everything
else.

>So I guess if the console and first backlighting bulb are the
>same, resistance-wise, they'd both glow at half-brightness...

Bingo.  That's whats happening.  I had the console apart not too long ago to
replace the PRNDL bulb (it worked at first), I'll have to rip it out again
and check her out.

__________________________________________________________________________
Shawn M. Twomey     |  "No!  Try NOT!  Do, or do not.  There is no try."
stwom@ctp.com       |  -Yoda
__________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 12:06:14 -0300
Subject: Re: T-top locks 

>If anyone knows of a supplier for these, give a holler...I'll keep 
>checking Whitney (got that lifetime subscription, ya know ;-) but I 
>don't recall ever seeing them in there (ever being the past year or so...=)

Just for yucks I pulled the oldest copy I could find off the shelf, and
they're in there. Two kinds, in fact; the other design is for older types
with latches on the corners, such as for '68-'82 Corvettes and '73-'78 all.
The center-pull type like we're talking about is pictured with a flat
conventional-type key lock instead of the tubular ACE key, but otherwise
looks to be the same thing.

If you feel adventurous and want to call them anyway, this is Metro
Catalog 112J, page 112, part no. 14-5368P (chromed) or 12-2873U (satin
black), $39.95 for either.

The earlier design for '73-'78 is (was) 14-5369Y for chrome, 12-2872W for
satin black, same price as above.

(Do you ever get the feeling J.C. Whitney makes up part numbers by
throwing darts at a wall? :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 12:30:18 -0300
Subject: Re: Grounds 

>Yes, thanks Andy, I'm going to do that this weekend.  Question:  could all
>this be caused at the battery?  Say, if the negative terminal wasn't hooked
>up real strong due to corrosion or whatever,

This sounds like one of those bogus hypothetical questions someone comes
up with when they realize that they forgot to mention _that_ part back at
the beginning.  :-)  Yeah, definitely clean up those ground connections
at the battery and back at wherever the negative cable comes from. If you
have a side-terminal battery you have probably already read my sermon on
cleaning out the internal corrosion under the contact rings, too.

>I forgot to mention
>(duh!) that the ammeter gauge has been reading low-I had been ignoring it
>becuase I thought the gauge was busted-but since the grounding problems it
>reads much lower than normal, never gets out of the "red zone" in fact.

Not good. You're not recharging your battery real well, then. Does it
crank the engine at normal speed?

>That should drain the battery fairly quick if that were accurate, but I
>haven't seen that at all.  Does the low voltage reading indicate
>battery/terminal problems, or is it just another effect of the entire wacky
>system.

Whoa. Wait -- is it an ammeter (measuring amps) or a voltmeter measuring
volts?

>I suppose the gauge itself is probably underpowered like everything
>else.

If a voltmeter, possibly so. A voltmeter is grounded; an ammeter is not.

>>So I guess if the console and first backlighting bulb are the
>>same, resistance-wise, they'd both glow at half-brightness...
>
>Bingo.  That's whats happening.

Confirm it by removing the bulb from the prindle backlight. If the console
bulb goes out at that moment, then the ground wire shared by the two of
them is not attached to the body.

>I had the console apart not too long ago to
>replace the PRNDL bulb (it worked at first), I'll have to rip it out again
>and check her out.

Maybe you dislodged the ground clip during reassembly.

Oh, yeah, Department of Why-Bother Vanity Plates: Was following a Taurus
wagon last night with vanity plate reading PRNDL 2.

Maybe the guy does transmissions. I understand the Taurus needs one.  ;-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 13:54:05 -0300
Subject: Did He Drive His Olds to da Moon?? :)

Saw this in the .sig of a post in (of all things) ne.food,  where folks
discuss eateries, etc in the New England area:


David Chesler (chesler@shore.net - CURRENT   chesler@world.std.com - SOMETIMES
     david.chesler@itcambridge.com - WORK    david@absol.com - ALWAYS)
1985 Olds Delta 88 Royale for sale, down to $800, write for details. 
   (A/C works! 2dr, at/ps/pb, cass, new w/s, brks, batt, exh; 249k miles)
                                                              ^^^^
                                                      A quarter million miles!!

I guess it's just about broken in now, eh? :)



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'88 Cadillac Brougham, a.k.a. 'Big Blue' -- Olds 307 Powered!!
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

"The difference between a good and bad golf swing is the same as that between
 beautiful and ugly women - a matter of millimetres"

- -- Ian Fleming, as said through James Bond in _Goldfinger_

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 12:59:00 -0300
Subject: Re: Did He Drive His Olds to da Moon?? :) 

>   (A/C works! 2dr, at/ps/pb, cass, new w/s, brks, batt, exh; 249k miles)
>                                                              ^^^^
>                                                      A quarter million miles!!
>
>I guess it's just about broken in now, eh? :)

Yup, that crankcase of Amsoil must be getting a bit tired by now.  :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: clark@sh28.dseg.ti.com (Pat Clark 952-3776)
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 14:30:24 -0300
Subject: Re: New on list, '73 Rally pac problems.

> >Okay, somewhere someone needs to find a wiring diagram. The wires going
> >into the plug(s) to the back of the gauge cluster will be color-coded.
> >Map out which wire does what -- match its color to that of the wiring
> >diagram, etc.
> 
> BTW, I don't mean to make this sound like brain surgery because the colors
> don't change from year to year; e.g. the backlighting circuit has been
> gray for, what, decades now. So if the original poster, if he's still
> awake by now :-)  wants to post the list of colors he finds in the plug,
> we all can probably tell him which wire does what.
> 
> Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431


The following is for converting a 68-69 from lights to Rally-Pak. Don't know if
the 73 is the same, but this might give you and idea of what to look for.
 
Rallye Pack: There are 7 pins on the rear of the unit, reading from
             left to right here are the assignments and wire color:
 
 
A=lights / B=fuel / C=oil / D=brake / E=ignition / F=gen / G=temp
  O           O       O         O        O           O        O
  |           |       |         |        |           |        |
  |           |       |         |        |           |        |
 gray        tan     blue      tan     pink        brown    dk.green
                     dbl.      dbl
                     white     white
                     strip     strip
 
 
 
Cluster Pack: wire colors are the same, pin assignments:
 
a=lights / b=temp / c=oil / d=fuel / e=ign / f=generator / g=brake
 
 
As you can see there are 3 wires that must be moved, from the cluster
pack b(dark green) moves to g, g(tanw/dblwh)moves to d and d(tan) moves
to f.





 				Pat Clark
    				 69 442
    			        400/TH400
    			  clark@abu.dseg.ti.com

     The careful application of terror is also a form of communication.

------------------------------

From: Nick DiGiovanni <ndigiova@direct.ca>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 14:03:20 -0300
Subject: Re: Synthoil trash talk 

At 11:53 AM 6/20/96 -0300, you wrote:

>That _OLD_ fairy tale just won't die, will it?  Never mind the ability to
>perform the function of a lubricant, these oils support life.  If you would
>like mold, mildew and bacteria thriving in your engine, go for it.  Sure, if
>you drive it every day and get it hot enough this will slow growth down but
>unless you want to achieve autoclave sterilizer temperature and pressures,
>bugs will survive and multiply over time.  So the bugs will not only break
>down castor or bean oil, the bugs themselves are not a lubricant.

I've been following these postings on synthetic vs. regular motor oil debate
for a while now.  I'm just a regualr oil user myself (Castrol in all my
cars, from new ones to old ones) as I have not found the need for a more
expensive synthetic.  I do care very much for the engines in these cars and
I check the oil regularly and change the oil every 5000 km or 3000 miles.
My '70 4-4-2 has 147,000 original miles on it and the engine has never been
rebuilt.  The car only goes through a quarter of a quart of oil per 3000
miles... gas on the other had it burns easily :')  Don't get me wrong, I am
not against synthetic motor oils.  I just feel that for myself, they are
expensive considering I am getting excellent protection from the regular
motor oils.  If I was not getting the proper protection that I wanted than I
would try the synthetic.  The old saying goes, "If it ain't broke....."
The other night on Primetime or one of those programs they did a very
controlled test with a bunch of NY taxi cabs.  They used all the major
brands of oils (I did not see any synthetics in the bunch but that does not
mean that they did not test them) in brand new cabs.  After 60,000 miles and
oil changes every 6000 miles, they took apart all the engines and measured
all tolerences.  They found that all the brands of motor oils produced
identical results and that the engines were free of wears and abrasions.
They also said that it is not necessary to change your oil every 3000 miles
but every 7500 miles instead and you will still get the same protection.
Now I don't quite agree with this last statement but overall I think that
motor oils are good for more than 3000 miles.

On a side not, I work for the largest industrial chemical treatment company
in the world and I have never heard of "these oils support life.  If you would
like mold, mildew and bacteria thriving in your engine, go for it".  I know
that ethylene or propylene glycol (anti-freeze) is susceptible to bacterial
attack and can be broken down to form glyconic acid.  This is extreemly
corrosive and can destroy your radiator, thermostat, water pump and if left
for a long period of time, your engine.  Both ethylene and propylene glycol
are toxic at high levels (greater than 500 ppm) but they are a nutrient to
bacteria at low levels (less than 200 ppm).  Therefore, check your
antifreeze levels often and do a radiator flush if the level is low or color
starting to change to brownish/orange.  However, to get back to the
bacteria, mold and mildew in my engines because of the motor oil I use, I
would have to strongly disagree.  Back in my Microbiology days and preparing
baby bottle days, you can kill off most (90%) bacteria at at 90 degrees C
and all bacteria at 100 C (thats 212 F for our friends in the US)in 3-5
minutes. I know that most engines run around that range and some even more.
Therefore the threat of some bacteria present is insignificant.  Autoclave
sterilizers used in hospitals to sterilize instruments only reach a
temperature of 120 C or 248 F for 15 minutes at 15 psi.  Now if you have
molds and mildew in your motor oil, chances are that you can't even start
the car so the mold and mildew is the least of your problems.
Just my 2 cents worth.
BTW, I'm having trouble growing an area of grass in my front yard.... should
I spray a couple quarts of Castrol 10W-30 or Pensoil 5W-30 on it to start
some new growth and maybe get that much needed humas layer? ;)



          
Nick DiGiovanni
Port Coquitlam, B.C.
1970 4-4-2 - "Snarls Softly and Carries a Big Kick"

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 19:06:49 -0300
Subject: Re: Synthoil trash talk

Nick DiGiovanni wrote:

> Back in my Microbiology days and preparing baby bottle days, you can 
> kill off most (90%) bacteria at at 90 degrees C and all bacteria at 
> 100C in 3-5 minutes. I know that most engines run around that range 
> and some even more. Therefore the threat of some bacteria present is 
> insignificant.  Autoclave sterilizers used in hospitals to sterilize 
> instruments only reach a temperature of 120 C or 248 F for 15 minutes 
> at 15 psi.

Now that's the kind of answer I like!

> BTW, I'm having trouble growing an area of grass in my front yard.... 
> should I spray a couple quarts of Castrol 10W-30 or Pensoil 5W-30 on it 
> to start some new growth and maybe get that much needed humas layer?

Use WD-40.  It'll shoot right out of the dirt!      ;)


The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 19:14:31 -0300
Subject: Re: Grounds

Shawn M. Twomey wrote:
> 
> 
> Question:  could all this be caused at the battery?  Say, if the 
> negative terminal wasn't hooked up real strong due to corrosion or 
> whatever, or some internal malfunction of the battery itself-it IS only 
> two or so months old.  

Ignoring Murphy's Law and Ripley's Believe It or Not for a moment, I'd 
vote no.  If the connection was bad so that you lost, say 2 volts across 
it, the balance of 10 volts whould still be distributed proportionally to 
the rest of the circiutry.  Symptoms don't change when off at ~12.5 volts 
to running at ~13.8 volts, do they?


The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 15:38:08 -0300
Subject: Re: Grounds 

>Ignoring Murphy's Law and Ripley's Believe It or Not for a moment, I'd 
>vote no.  If the connection was bad so that you lost, say 2 volts across 
>it, the balance of 10 volts whould still be distributed proportionally to 
>the rest of the circiutry.

Agreed; I think I kind of muddled the topic by talking about bad ground
cables to the battery. The point I should have made was that you need to
be sure you've got 12 (or whatever) volts fully available to the car; that
way when you fix the bad ground lurking elsewhere you can see everything
suddenly Get Better.

Regarding the console light in the storage compartment, that might be an
isolated problem since its wire is supposed to ground _right_ _there_,
with a clip on the shifter grounding right into the floor. So if that's
fixed, only the console light will get better. If everything else gets
better at the same time, that's not necessarily good since it now means
everything else is now grounding through that same little wire. (And to
get there, it'll need to go backwards through the dash lighting circuit,
etc. Uuuugly.)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Tom Waldron <tomw@harborside.teleres.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 19:50:00 -0300
Subject: Check engine light

I've been getting an intermittent check engine light on my 84 H/O. I   
checked the codes with my diagnostic paperclip and got three codes:
12
21
24
I know that code 12 shows that the diagnostics is working properly. Can   
anyone tell me what the other codes mean? Thanks,

 Tom Waldron tomw@harborside.teleres.com
 '84 H/O  

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 18:24:25 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Changing Differential Fluid 

Glad you guys have had the make a gasket RTV work out.

Watch out for the bathroom white stuff, I've heard judges take points off 
for stuff like that :), especially on a W-27.

Not all GM tagged rears are posi.  I've seen tags on the right with codes, 
the ratio, etc.  It was a non-posi.  The code on the tag will identify the 
diff unless of course the tag is off another diff.

All codes, tags, are optional.  It's your gas.

Gee, I thought that grey yucky slimy stuff was bacteria.

My apologies for hitting a nerve.

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    "Oldsmobile - powerful roadsters with big V8s"
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu

- -------------------
Hmm, I guess the _bathroom_ white RTV (hey, it's what I had at midnight and
all the stores were closed) I used on the '67 15 years ago is no good.  I've
even removed the W-27 cover several times to replace lube, change gears, etc.
 Just bolt it back on and it has _never_ leaked a drop, needed a new gasket
or any additional RTV.  

RTV is OK if you use it right, like keeping it out of the gears, bearings,
engine oil pump, etc.  Use sparingly and on appropriate jobs it the greatest
thing since sliced you know what.

Why take codes, tags, etc to the store?  Just take the old gasket or the
cover.
The tag, if any, Olds used codes stamped on the driver side axel tube, is
probably missing, the codes can be rusted off, etc.  The only tag I've seen
is for posi rears and need for posi friendly lube.

A big agreement on scooping out _all_ the old lube including the gray stuff
on the bottom.  BTW that grey stuff is pulverized metal from gears, bearings,
etc.

Bob Handren  OCA #7728
'67 W-30 Modified
'70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 17:26:30 -0300
Subject: Re: Synthoil trash talk 

In a message dated 96-06-20 14:06:41 EDT, you write:

<< On a side not, I work for the largest industrial chemical treatment
company
 in the world and I have never heard of "these oils support life.  If you
would
 like mold, mildew and bacteria thriving in your engine, go for it". >>


I was not talking about synthetic or petroleum based oils, but about castor
and bean oil for use in race engines as mentioned in the post.

I would assume, but don't know, that synthetic as well as petroleum oils
contain nasty stuff which would pretty much guarantee bugs won't like it.
 Such as cyclic hydrocarbons, etc. which are poisonous and/or cancer causing.
 But bean and castor oil being direct from viable growing things are likely
to support life.  The source of bean oil I would assume is from some sort of
bean. According to my dictionary, castor oil (always wanted to know where
that stuff came from) is from "glands in the groin of the beaver" - yuk!

Look at it another way.  Bean and castor oils are edible (although I know the
latter is less than enjoyable).  But I wouldn't suggest ingesting petroleum
based oils - they contain poisons, can get into your lungs if you vomit and
kill you. They don't do anything good for humans or animals and since we all
evolved from the basic chemicals of life, won't be too good for microbes
either too.

I am open to additional arguments (come on guys this could be another fun
subject) but, until some good explanation as to why they are adequate,
reliable lubricants is made, I still believe using bean or castor oil in your
engine, race or otherwise, is a _bad_ idea.  And being edible, they probably
support the growth of organisms; this also is probably not good for an
engine.

Anybody want to volunteer their engine for a test?

Bob Handren  OCA ##7728
'67 W-30 Modified
'70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 17:27:15 -0300
Subject: Re: Synthoil trash talk 

In a message dated 96-06-20 15:09:39 EDT, you write:

<<  Autoclave sterilizers used in hospitals to sterilize 
 > instruments only reach a temperature of 120 C or 248 F for 15 minutes 
 > at 15 psi. >>


Such systems use steam under pressure to get the spore forming bacteria.
 That temperature _and_ pressure are required to guarantee you kill
everything.  Boiling water alone for instance does _not_ guarantee you kill
some of the tougher micro-organisms.  Are 

And I doubt your crankcase achieves 15 psi or at least not for very long.

As I said, if you drive it every day that would decrease growth.  But, do you
remember from your microbiology days how quickly bacteria will grow? Cultures
can reach maximum concentrations of microbes in only 24-48 hours.  So put
some bean oil in your crankcase down here in sunny, humid, warm FL and park
your car for a week and see what happens.  Assuming bean and castor have
sufficient lubricating qualities in the first place, after a week at least
some of it will have been broken down with ? consequences and you now also
have bacteria and/or possibly mold and whatever else curculating through your
lifters, on you cam lobes, clogging the oil filter and who knows what else.

Anybody have any real experience with this stuff?  I do know that the subject
was brought up in a car mag some years ago.  The tech editor made essentially
the same arguments I have including the fact that bean, castor and other
vegetible or animal oils are not good substitutes for engine oil. They have
lousy lubricating qualities versus the needs of an automobile engine.  If it
was any good I can't believe there wouldn't be at least some advertising and
promotion for them.

Again, anybody want to do a test on their pride and joy? I won't!

Bob Handren  OCA #7728
'67 W-30 Modified
'70 SX Convertible
Oviedo, FL

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 17:46:05 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Changing Differential Fluid 

In a message dated 96-06-20 16:21:33 EDT, you write:

<< Gee, I thought that grey yucky slimy stuff was bacteria.
 
 My apologies for hitting a nerve. >>


Didn't mean for it to come across that way.  Sorry, just wanted to provide
personal experience and maybe an easier way.

The way gear lube smells you would think something died.  Well, actually did
a couple million years ago :-)  But synthetic doesn't smell any different or
better.


Bob

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 18:21:55 -0300
Subject: Re: Synthoil trash talk

I dunno but here in Hawaii nobody refrigerates their Canola or Wesson, 
but it never grows any bacteria that I can see....

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 18:24:43 -0300
Subject: Re: Synthoil trash talk

Perhaps you've got it wrong.   We're not talking about just going down to 
the corner store and getting bean oil to fill your crankcase with.  
Experiments were done with an oil designed to be an engine lubricant 
derived from certain beans.  Will get more info to post later.  I don't 
think any of us could try this even if we wanted to because it is not an 
item available on the open market.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 20:40:18 -0300
Subject: Re: Q-Jet Testimony 

          
Could you please tell me where to get one of these plug replacement kits. I 
have asked around locally with no results. I am not familiar with Jiffy....is 
it a similar outfit as the Zip Kit carb overhaul kits company?
          
Thanks in advance,
          
Greg K
          
          Greg,
          
          Sorry for the late reply, I've been on travel.  I bought 
          mine at my local auto parts store (a REAL auto parts store, 
          not Trak Auto, Checkers, Chief, et al).  I think they are 
          also available from specialty houses such as the Carburetor 
          Shop.  Yes, Jiffy is a brand name like Zip.  I'll try to 
          find out some more info for you.
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30
          

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #209
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