To:	oldsmobile-digest @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET @ ABTLAB
Date:	08/24/96 06:27:22 PM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #278


oldsmobile-digest         Saturday, 24 August 1996      Volume 01 : Number 278


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 17:59:46 -0300
Subject: '68 Convertable Top Repair -Reply 

> Also, what should I do  first - Replace the weather stripping and (maybe)
>top, or paint the car?  I'm  not sure which order these steps should be
>done in.

Repairs/Resto's should go in this order...

1)  Engine work first if it needs done -  you don't want grubby mechanics
leaning all over your new paint.

2)  Choose Interior (if needed) - you should make sure your paint and
interior are going to match/coordinate.  Compare to paint sample.

3)  Paint is next - remove all the old weatherstripping, chrome trim, bumpers,
door handles, everything... If you want it to look professional when you're
done, you have to remove *everything*, including the dash and all the
interior and do a complete repaint.  Masking just won't cut it.

4)  Install new interior

5)  Replace weatherstripping and all chrome - this should be done after
installing interior, because you don't want to tear your new w. stripping or
ding up your chrome trim when hauling seats in and out...  This is also
when you install your new top (maybe) =-)

Hope that helps...  I haven't yet completed a full resto, so I'm no expert.  
I'm
just using my common sense and body shop knowledge here.  Feel free to
correct me if I'm wrong... =-)

- -Blaine

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 18:05:07 -0300
Subject: Cylinder Heads -Reply 

If you're lucky, you can find a set of 'C' heads in a junkyard that are still
useable for around $75 each.  But you could expect to pay a lot more than
that for some fresh rebuilt heads.  Around $300 - $500 maybe.

>>> Kevin Daly <cosmo@wasatch.com> 08/23/96 11:36am >>>
I have a '71 455 in my boat that recently removed one of the heads on. 
When I pulled it  out I noticed the exhaust valve seat had come out and
was wedged sideways, but wouldn't  let the valve close.  Also, the head
was cracked.  I was wondering if anyone knows how  much 2 new heads
would cost, and where I can get them.  I've got to get the boat in the 
water before Labor Day.

Thanks,

Kevin Daly cosmo@wasatch.com

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 16:59:44 -0300
Subject: Checked the Olds web page recently? 

Was there just now on the theory that I might find an (800) number
for the Virtual CD -- haven't spotted it yet. I got distracted by
the "Community" link, which looks like a slightly clunky effort to
get a newsgroup-like environment set up with subjects, followups, etc.
Didn't see any mention of our list there just yet, and in a quick hunt
for interesting topics the only even slightly unusual one (other than
"1997 models", "100th Anniversary", etc.) was "1988 CIERA", which
turned out to be an unsigned rah-rah note about how good someone's
Ciera has been. Early days, I guess...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 18:26:58 -0300
Subject: '48 Olds Engine 

 >>I ask the machinest what it was.... he looked... and said the engine
>>(that put on appxoximate 30 miles on the engine) had wear of 60,000
>>in the valve guides.  


I would like to know how this gentleman could make this diagnosis merely by
looking!  I'm not sure how worn guides make clicking noises either.  Boy, is
he saying the guides are so worn the valve is making a clicking noise as it
finally seats?  Never "heard" of that one.  60,000 miles isn't that much wear
in any case. When they wear the symptom is oil consumption not noise.

What kind of machine shop would miss worn guides that bad.  You better get a
second opinion.

Is the oil pressure OK?  If it is I'd suspect a sticking lifter as the source
of the noise.  Not the guides/heads.  The older factory manuals (~56 anyway)
described a process where you would tap the pushrod side of the rocker with a
hammer as the valve was opening (pushrod coming up).  This was supposed to
move the internal parts of the lifter quickly and hopefully dislodge any
errant specs of unwanted dirt, etc.  Obviously you don't use a 10 lbs sledge
hammer! Just a small one and firmly but lightly tap the pushrod side of the
rocker while the engine is idling.

I did this (way back when) and never broke anything but obviously you risk
breaking something if you pound on it too hard.

Again, get a second opinion.

Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL
U.S. FDA Regulatory Affairs   (407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 18:26:52 -0300
Subject: HEI's was FUBAR 350  

>>From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
>>Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 12:21:12 -0300
>>Subject: >>

>>Humble suggestion about frying points: go to the boneyard and get an
>>HEI distributor. Then you can forget all about the complexities of 
>>points, dwell and so forth. I also found that in doing this my radio
>>had less noise and the car idled better. 
>>chris fair

Amen to that suggestion.  Both our cars now sport HEI's.  Just make sure you
understand the points and HEI distributors were internally timed very
differently.  Use a curve kit for the mechanical advance weights and springs
and an adjustable vacuum advance pot and you are set with a cheap, reliable
unit.

Here in FL, junkyard HEI's run about $30.  Try to get one from a car that was
wrecked as opposed to one that is in one piece.  Reduces the chances of
getting a defective unit.  These yards usually have a guarantee so if one
doesn't work, pull another one.  Replacement coils and modules are about $15
each at AutoZone/Discount/Rose/other discount stores.  Pretty cheap by any
standard for an outstanding, proven high output ignition setup.


SB and BB are essentially the same.  I've installed them on engines equipped
with stock and Edelbrock Torker intakes.  Don't know about problems with any
others.

Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL
U.S. FDA Regulatory Affairs   (407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 18:26:53 -0300
Subject: '74 455 

By the time the '74 455 was built, performance was dead.  As a result the
crank was the lowly cast iron. Such a crank is not suitable for high
performance applications.  The rest of the 455 is fine.

All BB heads (except D) have the same combustion chamber size.  Olds engines
change compression ratios by using different pistons, not heads. "C" heads
are deemed the best but there is little difference when ported by an expert
(right Chris Urban?). The low compression engines were intially nominal 8.5
to 1, actual was probably about 8. 

The '74 should be fine as long as you don't intend high rpm operation, high
compression or nitrous use.

Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL
U.S. FDA Regulatory Affairs   (407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 18:26:38 -0300
Subject: Cam buttons 

>>From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
>>Subject: Mondello Cam Button

>>Okay folks here's something a few of you may have something to say 
>>about.  Has anyone out there used Mondello's cam button and had a 
>>FAVORABLE outcome?  The only two opinions I have heard on the button is 
>>NOT to use it because it causes wear.  

I haven't used _Mondello's_ cam button but Olds diesels used a spring and
button device which was recommended to me by an Olds engine guru.  It keeps
the cam in place so it can't rock back and forth in the block.  One of my
engines has had the Olds piece in for about 10 years and 20,000 miles.  No
problem I am aware off.

It's been a while, but I believe the factory setup included a torrington
bearing as well to prevent block wear. Three pieces, the nylon/plastic
button, a spring and the bearing.

Like I said, it's been a while. Anybody else got anything?

Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL
U.S. FDA Regulatory Affairs   (407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 18:26:49 -0300
Subject: Air Lift Bags 

>> I bought those Air Lift bags for the GS.  They rock!  It leaves posi's
>>now!!!  Many thanks to Bob (if I remember right) for that tip, they work
>>great!  

I'll make believers out of you guys yet. :-)

Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL
U.S. FDA Regulatory Affairs   (407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 18:26:55 -0300
Subject: Decals 

>>After applying the decal, mask tape around the decal (not on the decal) at
>>about 1/8" around the edges.  This should leave 1/8" paint all around the
>>decal.  Then spray or brush on a clear laquer over the decal and the 1/8"
>>area of paint.  Remove the masking tape.  That's it.  This will produce a
>>seal around the decal so that water and oil etc. don't go through or get
>>under the decal and destroy it.  It is also very difficult to see the
laquer
>>when done.  This method works great and lasts a long long time.

Good idea. But that means the 1/8" around the label is glossy where the
radiator is "correct" using a semi-flat black, at least on our cars.  And
some clears will turn yellow with time.  Then you have to scrape off the
clear with the old label, probably strip the whole d++n radiator support and
repaint it before applying yet another new label.  If it is your trunk label
that needs replacing, again, you might even end up having to repaint it as
well.

Why should we be required to do any of this?  I guess it's asking too much
that the "resotration" items we buy truly meet original OEM standards. :-[
 Until that happens I'm using the magnet stuff.  

At least decals aren't as hard to replace a one year old body mount biscuits!

Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL
U.S. FDA Regulatory Affairs   (407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 18:27:03 -0300
Subject: Exhaust Noise Level 

>>However, the shop guy said they're not  
>>loud at all if used with regular xmans (not headers) and an H pipe.  

Two chamber FlowMaster mufflers are too loud!  Is this what he happens to
have in stock?!  Without headers I suspect they would be way overkill. As I
said in another post, can you spell h-e-a-d-a-c-h-e?  If you drive this car
any amont you will hate the really _noisy_ muffler, of any type. 

How is this guy going to connect 2 1/2" pipes to you 2 14" exhaust manifolds?
 Neck 'em down?  Kinda defeats the purpose doesn't it?

If you want a system that looks bitchin', use aluminized pipe and put some
oversize "baloney" chrome extensions on the back.

As for price, I paid a little over $200 for 3" aluminized pipes from the
headers back all custom bent to fit and heliarc welded.  This included all
parts (except the mufflers) and labor including 3 and 1/2" chrome baloney
tips.  These tips are at least 18" long.  The 3 chamber 3" FlowMasters were
special order and cost about $80 each including shipping, tax, etc.  I drove
this beast over 400 miles in one day a couple weeks back.  Definitely
headache time.  I'm not sure if it was the exhaust of the radio tho'. :-)

You need to decide what your goals are.  Reduce backpressure.  Look cool.
Sound cool. Any combination of the three.

Reduce backpressure = headers and oversize pipes

Look cool = aluminized pipe, good looking mufflers and chrome extensions.

Sound cool = appropriate muffler.

I do _not_ think 2 chamber FlowMasters, Purple Hornies, "glass-paks", etc.
sound cool.  You want a "Rocket Rumble" not a racket!

Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL
U.S. FDA Regulatory Affairs   (407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: brett@actel.com
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 21:13:01 -0300
Subject: 68 Convertible Top Repair 

     Craig,
     
        I recently took my top into a repair shop that does convertibles 
     and upholstery.  I had 2 small tears in the top that were similar to 
     yours.  Your biggest concern will be to prevent the tear from 
     spreading.  When the repair shop fixed mine, they backed the tear up 
     with more material and sewed it.  They then put some rubber-like 
     coating over the threads and seam.  The top is white, and the white 
     coating over the threads looks kinda like a bird pooped on the top.
     
     You may not have this problem, but whatch to see if the tear is 
     spreading.  If so, you may want to go the professional route.  It cost 
     me about $90 to fix.  I was in a dilemma as to fix or replace, but I 
     figure that I could get a fair number of years out of this top yet.
     
     
     As far as weatherstripping, it is entirely independent of the top.  
     The convertible weatherstrip kit is fairly easy to put in, and it's 
     only impact relative to painting is if you want to touch up the metal 
     rails on the top frame.  You may want to paint those while the 
     attached weatherstrip removed.  They are visible when the top is down 
     without a boot, so this may be desired.  As far as the weatherstrip on 
     the rest of the car, I have seen a lot of overspray on them (including 
     on my own).  This is a symptom of poor masking.  Does anybody have any 
     comments on removing the weatherstrip prior to painting, and replacing 
     it afterwards?  Sounds like a good idea, but are there gotchas?
     
     Brett Chaveriat                brett@actel.com 
     Arlington Hts, IL
     
     '72 Cutlass Supreme convt  
     
     
     
     
     

------------------------------

From: jblair@exis.net (John T. Blair)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 18:57:11 -0300
Subject: Re: Mult-Meter 

At 11:37 AM 8/23/96 -0300, oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca wrote:
>I purchased a 'Multi-Meter' tester to test the 
>voltage of my battery but apparently there are many 
>(hundreds?) of other uses for this thing.  What 
>other uses do you have for yours (be nice now!)?
>

Basically there are only 3 functions to a multimeter: measuring
voltage, current, and resistance.

For a better understanding on how to use it check out the article
"Electrical Primer" at: http://www.team.net/www/morgan/tech/blair/

John
John T. Blair  WA4OHZ          email:  jblair@exis.net
Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (757) 495-8229

48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget  65 Morgan 4/4 Series V
     75 Bricklin SV1   77 Spitfire

The one with the most toys, wins!

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 19:14:57 -0300
Subject: New Recruit

I've added Cadet Wright to the list (his military training must be taking 
root... notice how respectful he is when writing Major Domo... ;-)  ) and 
thought he's appreciate my forwarding his request to all of you.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada


- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 13:43:16 -0300
From: Wright, Thomas CDT  <x02311@exmail.usma.army.mil>
To: "'oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca'" <oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Subject: olds mailing list

Majordomo,

My name is Tom Wright and I'm interested in being put on your mailing
list.  I own a 1966 Dynamic 88 two door hardtop with the standards
including a.c..  Under the hood its got a high compression 425 cu. in.
with  a two barrel and the TH-400 heavy duty tranny. Did I mention that
it has only 33,000 original miles?  Right now I'm looking for a four
barrel or three-two barrel intake manifold for my car.  I know that
numerous performance parts stores carry them but mine needs a manifold
with an E.G.R. valve.  Any clues as to were I might find one or anyone
who has one for sale would be greatly appreciated.  Well thanks for all
your help.  My adresses are:
email- <x02311@exmail.usma.edu>

mailing adress- Cadet Tom Wright
                       P.O.Box 3626
                       West Point, NY 
                                         10997
Thanks,

Tom Wright 

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 19:33:34 -0300
Subject: Re: Mult-Meter

On Fri, 23 Aug 1996, Mike Frederick wrote:
> You betcha!  Be careful about measuring amperage in general with a 
> multimeter.  Many have a rather limited scale, often in the MILLIamp 
> range.  Don't try to measure amperage that could be well in excess of the 
> highest range of the meter.

I can attest to this from painful experience... in a period of brain-fade 
when trying to diagnose my bad regulator a few months back I did exactly 
this. Fortunately all it did was fry the fuse in the multimeter, not the 
meter itself. Luckily, RS had thoughtfully included a spare with the 
meter so I was back in business again. At least I won't do *that* again 
now...  

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 19:34:52 -0300
Subject: Re: 4 to 7 blade fan replacement

On Fri, 23 Aug 1996, Craig Dobbins wrote:
>   I looked again at my fan on '68 442.  It is a 4-blade with the non-clutch 
> attachment.  Seeing as how the 7-blade that I have has the clutch on it, is 
> there anyway of removing the 4-blade (well I know I can remove it but . . .) 
> and attaching the 7-blade to the same fitting that went on the 4-blade?

Don't think it can be done. Either the clutch fan will foul on the engine 
accessories and/or the pulleys will not line up. Sorry...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 19:37:58 -0300
Subject: Re: Trunk Lamp and Strange Tabs on Back Seat

The trunk lamp on the '72s is mounted next to the drivers side trunk 
hinge under the rear window. There is a metal arm, somewhat articulated, 
that is activated by the movement of the hinge when the trunk is open and 
switches the light. No merc switch. If the metal rod is missing that's 
why it doesn't work. Might be possible to fabricate one. It's bigger in 
diameter than a coat hanger, but not by a whole lot. I think that the 
thicker metal hook from a plastic suit hanger might do the trick...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 19:44:50 -0300
Subject: 66 w/ EGR? 

Cadet, 
Are you sure your 66 needs an intake with an egr valve or are you looking
for one that needs a PCV (positive crankcase ventilation) and air injection?
I don't think they added EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) until the early
70's with the smog revolution. I have a 66 98 with the same block and heads
and no EGR at all.
chris fair

------------------------------

From: "Wright, Thomas CDT " <x02311@exmail.usma.army.mil>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 20:10:58 -0300
Subject: RE: 66 w/ EGR?

You are right but I was told it was egr by a mechanic, but I thought I
was wrong all along.  Even so, finding a manifold that fits is still a
problem.  The Edelbrock performer won't fit because it needs that PCV
valve.  If you have any ideas write me back, thanks,

Tom

>----------
>From: 	Chris Fair[SMTP:ChrisFair@FairIsaac.com]
>Sent: 	Friday, August 23, 1996 6:44 PM
>To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>Subject: 	66 w/ EGR?
>
>
>Cadet, 
>Are you sure your 66 needs an intake with an egr valve or are you
>looking
>for one that needs a PCV (positive crankcase ventilation) and air
>injection?
>I don't think they added EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) until the
>early
>70's with the smog revolution. I have a 66 98 with the same block and
>heads
>and no EGR at all.
>chris fair
>
>

------------------------------

From: "Wright, Thomas CDT " <x02311@exmail.usma.army.mil>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 20:33:38 -0300
Subject: RE: 66 w/ EGR?

>----------
>From: 	Wright, Thomas CDT 
>Sent: 	Friday, August 23, 1996 7:10 PM
>To: 	'oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca'
>Subject: 	RE: 66 w/ EGR?
>
>You are right but I was told it was egr by a mechanic, but I thought I
>was wrong all along.  Even so, finding a manifold that fits is still a
>problem.  The Edelbrock performer won't fit because it needs that PCV
>valve.  If you have any ideas write me back, thanks,
>
>Tom
>
>>----------
>>From: 	Chris Fair[SMTP:ChrisFair@FairIsaac.com]
>>Sent: 	Friday, August 23, 1996 6:44 PM
>>To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>>Subject: 	66 w/ EGR?
>>
>>
>>Cadet, 
>>Are you sure your 66 needs an intake with an egr valve or are you
>>looking
>>for one that needs a PCV (positive crankcase ventilation) and air
>>injection?
>>I don't think they added EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) until the
>>early
>>70's with the smog revolution. I have a 66 98 with the same block and
>>heads
>>and no EGR at all.
>>chris fair
>>
>>
>

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 21:43:42 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: 66 w/ EGR? 

You are right but I was told it was egr by a mechanic, but I thought I
was wrong all along.  Even so, finding a manifold that fits is still a
problem.  The Edelbrock performer won't fit because it needs that PCV
valve.  


        Uhhhh...why is this a problem?  On virtually all Olds V-8s
          known to mankind, the PCV valve mounts to the valve cover.
          Only the 69 H/O and 70-72(?) W-30s and W-31s (actually not
          sure about that last one) had the PCV valve actully mounted
          on the intake manifold.  I assume, by the way, that you
          are talking about the actual valve and not the other end
          of the hose coming from the valve.  This hose obviously
          must connect to manifold vacuum, but I would be amazed if
          the Edelbrock didn't have enough generic vacuum taps to
          connect this (put a "T" in the line going to the power
          brake booster).  My 66 442 has the PCV on the valve cover.
          Note that 66 and 67 _California_ emissions cars only also
          had AIR (the air pump with injectors into the exhaust ports
          of the heads).  My 66 is a CA car, so I have this hardware
          on mine.  EGR was mandated by law on some 72 California cars
          and nationwide in 1973.

          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com

          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 00:30:29 -0300
Subject: Cutlass Boneyard Found

Cutlassites,

Driving through Tampa tonight on the way to pick my son up from USF when 
I happened to glance to the left and saw what appeared to be a line of 
Cutlasses (68s?) in a yard.  Musta driven past this place a hundred 
times and never noticed it.  So on my way back I pulled in to see what 
was what.

Guy must collect Cutlass carcasses.  Must be 60-70 of them (and one 70 
Toro) in various states of death.  Didn't see a complete car but this 
must be Donor-Cutlass heaven.  Couple of W-30s (one with no motor), a 
Rally350 in the whatever yellow, and misc S models including some 
convertables.  Seems to be gobs of bumpers, interior, and trim parts.

The place was closed up but it's not a problem to stop by during the day 
sometime.  If your guys are interested, I follow up on it for ya.

The 66 Toro and Mike

 
- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Gregory G. Kalkhoff" <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 23:56:40 -0300
Subject: Need Carb for 1967 Delta 88

All,

I'm trying to help a buddy of mine in the Olds Club of Wisconsin locate the 
following 
carb for a:

1967 Olds Delta 88 with 425
no air
cruise control

He states the original carb number should be 7027156

Any leads would be appreciated.

Greg Kalkhoff

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 22:57:27 -0300
Subject: Headliner removal help 

I have looked everywhere except y headliner for my build sheet, so I have a
hunch it is there. I remember taking the metal molding that held my
headliner in place off of my 79 Cutlass and could not get it to go back on
right. Do they make a tool to remove the metal frame? Do they sell
replacement clips to reattach the metal pieces around the headliner? This
headliner in my 442 is in way too good shape to mess up.
__________________________________________________
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com)
1988 IROC Z/28...............salvage yard special
1980  4-4-2 W-30.............1 of  886       OCA#027572

1975 Hurst/Olds W-25...1 of 2535  H/OCA#0278A             
Just what the doctor ordered....those awesome W-Machines.

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 23:05:05 -0300
Subject: Re: Exhaust Noise Level

I just bought the new muffler by Flowtech called the Terminator. I get it
installed in the morning on the 442 and will let you all know how it sounds.
It is supposed to be quieter than a 2 chamber and louder than a 3 chamber
Flowmaster. In the muffler box is a sticker to place on the bottom of the
muffler that says "The Terminator, The bad boy of mufflers...Bite Me!" So
now when I take the car in for repairs the repair men will be insulted
everytime they look at my muffler:) 

>
>I do _not_ think 2 chamber FlowMasters, Purple Hornies, "glass-paks", etc.
>sound cool.  You want a "Rocket Rumble" not a racket!
>
>Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
>'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
>Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL
>U.S. FDA Regulatory Affairs   (407)365-6385
__________________________________________________
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com)
1988 IROC Z/28...............salvage yard special
1980  4-4-2 W-30.............1 of  886       OCA#027572

1975 Hurst/Olds W-25...1 of 2535  H/OCA#0278A             
Just what the doctor ordered....those awesome W-Machines.

------------------------------

From: SCOT SWANSON <SCOT442@cris.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 23:21:20 -0300
Subject: Question about Xmission Downshift 

I just got my 1968 442 back from the local garage.  The transmission had
been slipping and the guy in town rebuilt it for me. I know alittle about
engines and even less about transmissions.  (OK nearly nothing).  The car
runs great.  The transmission shifts solidly between the gears.  He put in a
subtle shift kit and I am very happy with it.  The problem is that the car
will not down shift 3rd to 2nd with acceleration (to go into passing gear
when I floor it).  He explained that there is a switch on the gas pedal that
needs to be replaced.  He could not keep it in the garage until one was 
ordered.

Is this guy being straight?  What would cause the down shift to not happen?
I have read through the Transmission section of the Chassis Manual.  My best
guess is that the "detent switch"  "solenoid" or the "control valve
assembly" are the problem possiblities. I would appreciate any insight into
if these are the right parts to go bad, what these things are, and where
they are at on the car, what it takes to repair.

It is a Automatic, 3 speed, Turbo 400.   Thank you in advance for the help

Scot
1968 passion for performance

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 23:35:15 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile Related!!! 

In a message dated 96-08-23 11:09:16 EDT, you write:

<< seriously....   i'm interested and available and 22 if you know of any
 single, attractive, intelligent females....  a picture of the olds or
 her toothbrush is optional!  --joe ferrero >>

Hey, where's Peg????  She seems to fit this description.

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 23:35:22 -0300
Subject: Re: Trunk Lamp and Strange Tabs on Back Seat 

In a message dated 96-08-23 13:15:19 EDT, you write:

<< Usually those lamps are controlled by a mercury switch.  Opening the
 trunk causes the mercury to flow and make contact.  That should be
 part of the lamp socket.  The housing is no srewed to the trunk lid to
 provide a ground? >>

No, this setup is what I have in my '67 98.  I had one of these from the
trunk of a '67 Toro in my Cutlass until I could find a correct working unit.

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 23:35:22 -0300
Subject: Re: Trunk Lamp and Strange Tabs on Back Seat 

In a message dated 96-08-23 13:15:19 EDT, you write:

<< I'm not sure how original that design is; the usual factory lamp mounted
 under the lip of the trunk lid near the trunk lock cylinder (look for a
 squarish opening in the lid frame to the left of the latch, with a small
 screw hole punched next to it). Yours may be an aftermarket design; I've
 seen it once before on a '69 Bonneville (and ironically, that one didn't
 work either until I reassembled it). >>

No, this is a factory lamp.  The lamp up in the lid by the lock cylinder is
what is found in more recent year vehicles.  Come to think of it, I think it
was '69 Catalina that contributed it's lamp to my worthy cause.  That's the
only part I could confiscate before my dealership wholesaled it.

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 23:35:22 -0300
Subject: Re: Trunk Lamp and Strange Tabs on Back Seat 

In a message dated 96-08-23 13:59:15 EDT, you write:

<< Your other question was answered some time ago, concerning those plastic
tabs. I think some one said they 
 are used to harness the front shoulder belts asin the hardtops there was
aclip on the foor, On 
 convertibles they used the tabs on the rear seats. >>

That explains why I don't have them, no shoulder belts in my car.  I thought
I've seen these in closed models though.

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 23:35:19 -0300
Subject: Re: Trunk Lamp and Strange Tabs on Back Seat 

On the trunk light thing - I went thru about three of these assemblies before
I was able to get ahold of one that worked.  There should be a metal clip
that grounds the bulb to the body when the lid is raised.  Also the light is
turned on & off by a lever that is activated by the trunk hinge.  When the
lid is raised, the lever is raised and that is what makes the contact to the
bulb clip to ground it and light the lite.

Those tabs on the seat you are talking about are definately there to plug the
seat belt buckles on to.  You probably have to put the buckle all the way at
the end of the belt to be able to plug them on.  Wish mine had these, those
damn belts are always getting in the way.  I used to stuff them up under the
seat cushion, put they landed on the metal floor under the seat and rattled
all the time.  I've seen these on about as many cars that I've seen without
them.  Must have put them in when the lines were slow and they didn't have
anything better to do!

Paul

------------------------------

From: Robert Whitaker <whitaker.rob@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 00:47:12 -0300
Subject: Re: Cam Stuff

At 04:30 AM 8/23/96 +0000, you wrote:
>Robert Whitaker wrote:
>> I am presently running the JM-20-22, I have a stock torque converter, stock
>> (cast iron) intake manifold, exhaust manifolds, and a Q-jet carburetor.  It
>> runs excellent with this set-up, my 455 really came to life!
>> 
>Robert,
>	are you running and auto trans and what gears do you have? How about 
your 
>heads any work to them?
>
>-- 
>Regards
>Fernando Proietto


Fernando,

I have a Turbo 400 and am running 3.23:1 gears (stock for an A/C 69 Hurst
Olds).  The heads had stainless steel valves put in, a three angle valve
cut, and hardened seats.  No porting or polishing.  I haven't been through a
1/4 mile yet - I'm anxious to see how it does.

Robert Whitaker
69 H/O 455

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 01:19:35 -0300
Subject: Re: Front End, Differential(2 & 3 series) 

In a message dated 96-08-23 08:17:50 EDT, you write:

<< How about posi.Can I use that 2.73 diff. that I have 
 and replace the carrier (the part w/ the gears) not the pot, with a posi
unit, lets 
 say with a 3.42 posi unit. What year can I get this from to fit the '72 2.73
carrier >>

yes you can use the housing, thats assuming thats what you are asking.
the 71 and 72 housing are all the same for A body cars.  as long as you have
a 8.5 carrier it will fit.  As for gear combo, say if you had just a posi
carrier
with say a 2.73 gear, you could put a 4:10 gear or even 4:33. The only thing
you will need to do is buy a shim kit because when you put higher gears
on the carrier, the carrier shifts relative to the pinion.  These shims go
between
the carrier bearings and the start of the axle tubes in the housing


W MACHINES

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 01:23:39 -0300
Subject: Re: Rear end Was: The Rockit's back  

doug where did you get your tire to rpm data sheet from.  I would love to
have
one or are you using a formula to calculate this info.  I need info for the 
29 inch tire with 4:10 and 4:33

W MACHINES(mark prince)

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 01:27:35 -0300
Subject: Re: Exhaust Noise Level 

If you use Hooker super comp headers, no engine lifting is necessary.
Just remove starter, and oil filter unit and oil dip stick tube.  These
instructions are for the one and three quarter or one and seven eights Hooker
Headers.  they increase power immensly.


W MACHINES

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 20:26:47 -0300
Subject: Re: Merry Olds

SG Hartfelder wrote:
> 
> I'd also like to get a copy of the 26 different
> versions of In My Merry Oldsmobile.
> 
> How could I get a (cassette) copy??
> 
> **************************************************
> SG Hartfelder
> Edmonton, AB  CANADA


I've given this a lot of thought, & I would like to be included also.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 01:35:27 -0300
Subject: Re: Rear end Was: The Rockit's back  

In a message dated 96-08-23 11:09:16 EDT, you write:

<< What would you not use 3.42 or higher with A/C?? 
  
  
 >3:23 is a good rearend ratio.  At about 80mph you will reach 2800rpm. 
 >3:23 and 3:08 are good highway gears and is acceptable with A/C. 
 >I know of some fellows that use 3:42 with A/C but I would not go any  
 >higher than that unless you buy underdrive pulleys.  Now this is for A/C 
 >.cars.  A non-A/C car 3:73 is a good gear to cruise and still cruise 80mph 
  
  
 Todd Morris 
 71 442   
    
    
    >>
3:42 is the highest you want to go because the A/C compressor can only 
turn so fast.  If you go any higher than that with stock pulleys you will
burn up the bearings in the compressor thus locking it up.  So that is why
you should use 3:42 or lower.  If you ever noticed the GN BUICKS and even
Mustangs come from the factory with more different size pulleys for their 
applications.  Underdrive pulleys will cut down on revolutions  so that the
A/C
compressor can handle a bigger gear.

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 20:44:57 -0300
Subject: Re: '68 Convertable Top Repair

Craig Dobbins wrote:
> 
> Hello,
>   On my '68 442 Convertable I have 2 spots on my top that I'd like to fix up
> if possible.  
> 
>   ONE FINAL QUESTION - I am planning on replacing all of the weather
> stripping.  Should I replace the top at the same time?  It's in really good
> shape besides the two problems I described above.  Also, what should I do
> first - Replace the weather stripping and (maybe) top, or paint the car?  I'm
> not sure which order these steps should be done in.
> 
>                                                    Thanks for your time,
>                                                     Craig Dobbins

Craig:


I don't know of aything that is really successful in repairing tears.  
there are good glues that stay soft that will work on the window to 
canvas bond.

The top can be done independently of the seals although both being done 
at the same time is ideal.  There is some disassembly for both the 
top & the seals but doing one doesn't have to harm the other.

I would replace the top before painting.  The top work can be a little 
tough on soft paint.  Of course, the painter will have to do a good job 
of sealing the top w/plastic or something or overspray will get all over 
it.

Bill Culp
Decatur, alabama

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 01:48:02 -0300
Subject: Re: Decals 

if you ever noticed paper and heat don't mix.  As for decals on resto's
Jim Osbourne decals do the same thing as Mark Cornea's.  Even from the 
factory, once heat got to the stickers, they started to wrinkle also.  This
is 
due to the glue and the paper itself.  So the only way you can stop this
is to get a piece of flat stock and have it etched your way, but after time
it also will turn nasty looking.

W MACHINES

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 01:55:15 -0300
Subject: Re: Merry Olds 

I collect olds memorabilia and I would also love a copy of MERRY OLD OLDS.
I do have a Olds cassette tape from the mid to late 80's that have the 
song THERE IS A SPECIAL FEELING OWNING AN OLDSMOBILE its more than
a luxary ride it's a feeling of pride.  So please let me know 
with thanks W MACHINES

------------------------------

From: kissrulz@gnn.com (Craig Dobbins)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 22:04:09 -0300
Subject: Think I found my build sheet - 68 442 

I think I found it,
  I happened to open up my doors all the way to inspect the inside of my 
fenders for rot (see exactly what was covered up by the bondo job done before 
I bought it).  Well, on the driver's side there looks like there is a piece 
of paper hanging from the fender support rail that is located on the upper 
half of the fender, sort of in the middle.  Now I just have to get some kind 
of extendable grabber or something, we'll try the coat hanger trick first 
though before spending MORE money on the car.  To anyone with a '68 442 (mine 
is convertable), or maybe Cutlass that was built in Lindon New Jersey (2 
letter code on side of Q-Jet will be RJ), give it a look.  Maybe yours is 
there too.

                                                   See Ya,
                                                    Craig

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 21:26:22 -0300
Subject: Re: Trunk Lamp and Strange Tabs on Back Seat

brett@actel.com wrote:
> 
> 
>      I have a couple of puzzling items on my '72 Cutlass Supreme
>      Convertible.  I hope you folks can shed light on these.
> 
>      The first involves the trunk lamp.  The lamp was installed in the
>      trunk when I purchased the car, with a functional bulb and a working
>      12v supply.  What is missing is a ground to the bulb. 
> 
> 
>      The second mystery involves a series of plastic tabs on the forward
>      edge of the rear seat cushion and on the rear armrest panels below the
>      courtesy lamps.  
> 
>      I sent a message a couple of weeks ago on the tabs, and I suddenly was
>      unsubscribed. 
> 
>      Brett Chaveriat                

Brett:

Welcome back.  I believe that your light is one that resembles a pie 
(quarter circle) made of white plastic.  A hot wire goes to the lamp, 
but a wire lever should turn the light on & off as the trunk hinge 
pushes it down or releases it.

The tabs were discussed a while ago & one member said that he had some 
on his car & that was where the rear seat belts attach when not in use. 
 That sounds much more reasonable than my response which I am ashamed to 
mention.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 21:44:47 -0300
Subject: Re: New Recruit

> 
> Majordomo,
> 
> My name is Tom Wright and I'm interested in being put on your mailing
> list.  I own a 1966 Dynamic 88 two door hardtop with the standards
> including a.c..  Under the hood its got a high compression 425 cu. in.
> with  a two barrel and the TH-400 heavy duty tranny. Did I mention that
> it has only 33,000 original miles?  Right now I'm looking for a four
> barrel or three-two barrel intake manifold for my car.  I know that
> numerous performance parts stores carry them but mine needs a manifold
> with an E.G.R. valve.  Any clues as to were I might find one or anyone
> who has one for sale would be greatly appreciated.  
> 
>  Cadet Tom Wright
>                        
> Thanks,
> 
> Tom Wright


Tom:

Welcome.  My toronado has a 425 & they are nice.  I like those big 
cruisers w/no miles.  It makes going back in time a little easier when 
the car is like new.

Why do you need an EGR ewuipped intake?  Is NY requiring it?  The 1966's 
didn't come w/one.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: kissrulz@gnn.com (Craig Dobbins)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 23:44:41 -0300
Subject: Re: Decals 

Hello,
  When I paint my '68 442 Convetable next year, I will either purchase the 
side stripe decals for it or just have the paint guy paint them on.  My only 
thing is that I want the stripes to go from the top of the fenders to the 
bottom with NO BREAK in the stripe behind the 442 emblems.  Does anyone know 
if the decals are sold like this, or if the stripes have to be painted on in 
order to avoid having the break in them.  Maybe can you order the stripes 
special with no break in them (I don't think it would be too hard)?  Also,  
Does anyone know what the EXACT WIDTH of the '68 side stripes is (2 small on 
either side of the one lage stripe)?

***Yea, I Know, I ask a TON of questions, Don't I?  Gotta, I love the car!***

                                                 Thank You,
                                                  Craig Dobbins 
>Date:		Sat, 24 Aug 1996 01:48:02 -0300
>From:	WMACHINES@aol.com
>Sender:	oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>To:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>Subject:	Re: Decals
>
>if you ever noticed paper and heat don't mix.  As for decals on resto's
>Jim Osbourne decals do the same thing as Mark Cornea's.  Even from the 
>factory, once heat got to the stickers, they started to wrinkle also.  This
>is 
>due to the glue and the paper itself.  So the only way you can stop this
>is to get a piece of flat stock and have it etched your way, but after time
>it also will turn nasty looking.
>
>W MACHINES
>

------------------------------

From: Nick DiGiovanni <ndigiova@direct.ca>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 03:27:39 -0300
Subject: Re: Decals 

At 06:26 PM 8/23/96 -0300, you wrote:

>Good idea. But that means the 1/8" around the label is glossy where the
>radiator is "correct" using a semi-flat black, at least on our cars.  And
>some clears will turn yellow with time.  Then you have to scrape off the
>clear with the old label, probably strip the whole d++n radiator support and
>repaint it before applying yet another new label.  If it is your trunk label
>that needs replacing, again, you might even end up having to repaint it as
>well.
>
>Why should we be required to do any of this?  I guess it's asking too much
>that the "resotration" items we buy truly meet original OEM standards. :-[
> Until that happens I'm using the magnet stuff.  

I've used a semi-flat lacquer spray so that the 1/8" area is very difficult
to see.  As far as it turning yellow... well it has been a year and still
shows no sign of "decay" but only time will tell.  The clear I use is used
on model planes that use model engine fuels (5-60% Nitromethane, Methyl
Alcohol, Castor Oil, Synthetic lubricants, anti-foamers, corrosion
inhibitors etc.) so it stands up very well.

You're absolutely right.  We should not have to do any of this but I guess
we are at the mercy of the Repro people ;')

Nick DiGiovanni
Port Coquitlam, B.C.
1970 4-4-2 - "Snarls Softly and Carries a Big Kick"

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 03:08:27 -0300
Subject: DARWIN AWARDS

Here is last years winner...

"The Arizona Highway Patrol came upon a pile of smoldering metal embedded
into the side of a cliff rising above the road at the apex of a curve.  The
wreckage resembled the site of an airplane crash, but it was a car.  The
type of car was unidentifiabble at the scene.  The lab finally figured out
what it was and what had happened.  

"It seems a guy had somehow gotten hold of a JATO unit (Jet Assisted Take
Off -- actually a solid fuel rocket) that is used to give heavy military
transport planes an extra "push" for taking off from short airfields.  He
had driven his Chevy Impala out into the desert and found a long, straight
stretch of road.  He somehow attached the JATO unit to his car, jumped in,
got up some speed and fired off the JATO.

"The facts as best as could be determined are that the operator of the '67
Impala hit JATO ignition at a distance of approximately three miles from the
crash site.  This was determined by the prominent scorched and melted
asphalt at that location.  The JATO, if operating properly, would have
reached maximum thrust within five seconds, causing the Chevy to reach
speeds well in excess of 350 mph, and continuing at full power for another
20-25 seconds.  The driver (soon to be pilot) most likely would have
experienced G-forces usually reserved for dog-fighting F-15 jocks under full
afterburner, basically causing him to be insignificant for the reaminder of
the event.  However, the automobile remained on the straight highway for
about 2.5 miles (15-20 seconds) before the driver applied and completely
melted the brakes, blowing the tires and leaving thick rubber marks on the
road surface. Then it became airborne for an additional 1.4 miles and
impacted a cliff face at a height of 125 feet, leaving a blackened crater
three feet deep in the rock.

"Most of the drivers (pilots?) remains were not recoverable; however, small
fragments of bone, teeth, and hair were extracted from the crater, and
fingernail and bone shards were removed from the steering wheel."

Must have been pretty scary...
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 11:05:01 -0300
Subject: Re: Cutlass Boneyard Found

Mike, I wonder if that Cutlass boneyard there is Bob Anderson's place? He 
advertises in JWO and seems to have lots of stuff. I think someone else 
here mentioned him a while back. For some reason I seem to recall that it 
was a mixed review. Maybe if you can find out sometime you can let us know. 

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 14:01:42 -0300
Subject: Re: New Recruit

Tom,

Welcome to the list.  Ah, 66!  My very favorite model year.  I'm sure 
you'll find this list to be a source of unending information on 
Oldsmobiles plus spirited discussions of bandwidth conservation (our 
other favorite subject).

BTW, I'd go with the four-barrel rather than the three-twos for good 
performance, decent economy, and lower maintenance.

...on the other hand, three-twos look pretty damn neat.   ;)

As you were,

The 66 Toro (w/425) and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 14:11:36 -0300
Subject: Re: Need Carb for 1967 Delta 88

Gregory G. Kalkhoff wrote:
> 
> 1967 Olds Delta 88 with 425, no air, cruise control
> He states the original carb number should be 7027156

When I get back over to the Cutlass boneyard, I'll check on it.  
I think there were 1 or 2 Deltas of that era sitting there.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 03:56:13 -0300
Subject: Re: Thanks: Lamp adjusted and Inspection done

At 08:32 AM 8/23/96 -0300, you wrote:

>The weatherstripping is almost complete. What we
>are missing is:
>- side window rubber lids
>- front door weatherstripping
>
>Would it be possible to repair the old side window
>rubber lids. Anyone done that?
>
>If somebody has weatherstripping for my front-doors
>or knows where to buy them, please tell us.

Try Steele Rubber Products.  They have a WWW page at:

http://www.steelerubber.com

You can order a FREE catalog there.  They have all kinds of soft parts for
many kinds of cars.
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 11:20:42 -0300
Subject: RE: Cam buttons

Well I'v ehad some of Mondello's cam buttons wear on me as well but i =
think they have been improved somewhat since then because there have =
been  some that worked as well. I think the thing to rember here is to =
check the distance from the cam button to cover carefully and to make =
sure that both gears are in alignment with the shims that he also sells =
( or if you can make your own). When the shims aren't used the gears are =
misaligned and this contributes to different types of stresses on them =
which in turn forces the cam button too touch the timing cover at an =
angle and wear.
As for Torrington bearings this is the Caddillac of thrust bearings as =
far as I'm concerned, and they can be bought from Batten Perf for the =
Olds block. They just require more machine work to the block so they =
tend to be more expensive to install.

It's been a while, but I believe the factory setup included a torrington
bearing as well to prevent block wear. Three pieces, the nylon/plastic
button, a spring and the bearing.

Like I said, it's been a while. Anybody else got anything?

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 04:06:26 -0300
Subject: Re: HEI's was FUBAR 350 

At 06:26 PM 8/23/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Here in FL, junkyard HEI's run about $30.  Try to get one from a car that was
>wrecked as opposed to one that is in one piece.  Reduces the chances of
>getting a defective unit.  These yards usually have a guarantee so if one
>doesn't work, pull another one.  Replacement coils and modules are about $15
>each at AutoZone/Discount/Rose/other discount stores.  Pretty cheap by any
>standard for an outstanding, proven high output ignition setup.
>Bob Handren 

Has anybody tried those point replacement thingys, usually cost ~$70-$100?
They're supposed to replace the points with some kind of electronic module.
I was considering purchasing one, but I don't know about reliability,
performance, etc.  If I got an HEI, is it possible to use my external coil?
Or would it be better to just use the HEI coil?  I'd like to keep the
external (for original looks), though I am by no means a purist when it
comes to originality.  Just want to retain the original look.
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 04:08:13 -0300
Subject: Re: Exhaust Noise Level

At 01:27 AM 8/24/96 -0300, you wrote:
>If you use Hooker super comp headers, no engine lifting is necessary.
>Just remove starter, and oil filter unit and oil dip stick tube.
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^      ^^^^^^^^^^              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Heh, what do you do with them after you take them off?  ;)
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 04:11:06 -0300
Subject: Re: 455 headers and Carb recalibration

At 01:01 PM 8/23/96 -0300, you wrote:
>     My father owns a 1977 GMC motorhome with a 455 Rocket in it.  In fact 
>     is whole drive train is shared with a toronodo.  He is in the process 
>     of adding headers to replace a leaky exhaust manifold.

Is it a front wheel drive motorhome???  They would be pretty unique,
'specially for 1977.  Can you put headers on a Toro engine (mounted in the
front wheel drive position, of course, not in a rear wheel drive position)?  
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 14:40:45 -0300
Subject: Re: Cutlass Boneyard Found

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
> 
> Mike, I wonder if that Cutlass boneyard there is Bob Anderson's place?

Dunno.  The address would be 17 or 1800-something Busch Blvd, Tampa. ??

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 11:46:33 -0300
Subject: Convertible Weatherstrip

All the chat here about replacing weatherstripping on ragtops made me 
remember my disappointment when I did that on my "other" A-body (Skylark 
convert). Two summers ago I got tired of the winds and water leaks with 
the top up so when I was at the Little Carlisle meet in Wisconsin I 
bought a new kit from Classic Reproductions. Not cheap as I recall, about 
$170 US. Made by Metro and it was good quality.

I found it easy to install and the new kit fit the frame perfectly. But
imagine my disappointment when I discovered that it did virtually nothing
for the leaks! Just as much wind noise as before. Part of the problem is
that the windows dont seem to fit very well at the top edge. At the front
corners where the point of the vent window/door frame meets the top of the
A-pillar there is a small gap between it and the top w/s on both sides of
the car. Some adjustment is possible by bending the w/s but not enough.
Why the wind noisr didn't go away I can't explain other than to say that
apparently you are always going to get wind noise since the top is not
sealed to the frame, just held there by cable tension, so the seal may not
be airtight. 

I dunno, maybe the top frame itself is misadjusted, but I can't see how 
you would ever get a complete seal with this kit. Maybe someone else can 
contribute to this discussion and let me know what I'm doing wrong. But i 
would just caution convertible owners not to get their expectations too 
high if they install new top weatherstripping.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 14:50:20 -0300
Subject: Re: 455 headers and Carb recalibration

Dave Paulison wrote:
>
> Is it a front wheel drive motorhome???  They would be pretty unique...

Not really, there are quite a few of them.  GM used the Toro subchassis, 
motor, and drivetrain in the big motorhome.

We'll use any means necessary to spread the Toro-virus!   ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 04:45:30 -0300
Subject: Re: 455 headers and Carb recalibration

At 02:50 PM 8/24/96 -0300, you wrote:

>Not really, there are quite a few of them.  GM used the Toro subchassis, 
>motor, and drivetrain in the big motorhome.

Cool, I never knew they did that.

>We'll use any means necessary to spread the Toro-virus!   ;)

I hear they're close to coming up with a vaccine for it, but their efforts
are being thwarted by an angry mob of protestors (most likely Toro owners).  :o

>The 66 Toro and Mike
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 15:26:23 -0300
Subject: Re: 455 headers and Carb recalibration

Dave Paulison wrote:
> 
> I hear they're close to coming up with a vaccine for it, but their 
> efforts are being thwarted by an angry mob of protestors (most likely 
> Toro owners).  :o

Just another urban legend.  There is no cure.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 14:46:26 -0300
Subject: Re: Exhaust Noise Level 

In a message dated 96-08-24 10:45:43 EDT, you write:

<< >If you use Hooker super comp headers, no engine lifting is necessary.
 >Just remove starter, and oil filter unit and oil dip stick tube.
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^      ^^^^^^^^^^              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 Heh, what do you do with them after you take them off?  ;)
 --
 Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
 dpauliso@metrolink.net >>


put them back on after putting on the headers and tightening them

------------------------------

From: Nick DiGiovanni <ndigiova@direct.ca>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 13:57:16 -0300
Subject: Vintage Police Cars 

I was in the local book store yesterday and I saw a book on "Vintage Police
Cars".  I glanced through it and the only picture of an Olds that they had
was on the very last page.  The caption read something like: "'67 Delmont 88
with a 425 ci with 365 HP and this put an end to 11 straight years of
Chrysler police cars".  Not even a paragraph on the car, just a one sentance
caption.  I checked the index and sure enough that was the only page with
Oldsmobile.  The other pages were all...uh.... not Oldsmobile.  I was under
the impression that Olds police cars were around before then.  Does anyone
know differently?

 
Nick DiGiovanni
Port Coquitlam, B.C.
1970 4-4-2 - "Snarls Softly and Carries a Big Kick"

------------------------------

From: Nick DiGiovanni <ndigiova@direct.ca>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 13:57:09 -0300
Subject: Oldsmobile ID Book 

I Finally got my "Catalog of Oldsmobile 4-4-2, W-Machines & Hurst/Olds ID
Numbers 1964-1991" book after ordering it 6 months ago.  Not a bad book at
all for just $20.  The color pictures of paint codes and trim codes for all
the years are really nice.
Nick DiGiovanni
Port Coquitlam, B.C.
1970 4-4-2 - "Snarls Softly and Carries a Big Kick"

------------------------------

From: Todd Morris <tmorris@bt1dc18e.bet.ibm.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 16:42:15 -0300
Subject: Re: Comp Cmas Rockers 

 
Well, its not that trick an engine: Performer intake, .476 lift cam, 
no head work, 3.42 rear, xmans, 4 sp, 455 bored .06 over.  The roller 
rockers are attractive because I've heard its a simple way to bolt on 
about 25 hp, in addition to the benefits of less heat, etc..... 
 
   
>It is simple to install them and they do come with instructions.  All  
>you have to do is remove your old rockers and bridges and then you bolt  
>on the pushrod guide plates with the studs provided in the kit, then the  
>rockers bolt on and you adjust them like regular adjustable ones. 
  
>Yes I think they are worth it and I would use them if your cam is going  
>to be over .500 lift. How tricked out is your engine going to be? 
   
>Chris M. 
>'68 442 
>cya442@erols.com 
 
 
Todd Morris 
71 442

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 16:23:27 -0300
Subject: Re: 455 headers and Carb recalibration 

> We'll use any means necessary to spread the Toro-virus!   ;)
> 
> The 66 Toro and Mike

Yikes!!!

Well at least I know what my next nightmare will be...

- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-5450    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: "Wright, Thomas CDT " <x02311@exmail.usma.army.mil>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 16:30:45 -0300
Subject: RE: New Recruit

66 is my favorite year too.  My question is that since my Olds has
Positive Crankcase Ventilation,(PCV), I have had a diificult time
finding a high performance intake manifold that will fit everything
together,  if you have any ideas I'd love to hear them.

Tom
>----------
>From: 	Mike Frederick[SMTP:edison3@cpeq.com]
>Sent: 	Saturday, August 24, 1996 1:01 PM
>To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>Subject: 	Re: New Recruit
>
>Tom,
>
>Welcome to the list.  Ah, 66!  My very favorite model year.  I'm sure 
>you'll find this list to be a source of unending information on 
>Oldsmobiles plus spirited discussions of bandwidth conservation (our 
>other favorite subject).
>
>BTW, I'd go with the four-barrel rather than the three-twos for good 
>performance, decent economy, and lower maintenance.
>
>...on the other hand, three-twos look pretty damn neat.   ;)
>
>As you were,
>
>The 66 Toro (w/425) and Mike
>
>
>-- 
>Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
>     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
>     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: "Wright, Thomas CDT " <x02311@exmail.usma.army.mil>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 16:35:17 -0300
Subject: RE: New Recruit

Bill, I was wrong it does't have an EGR valve on the manifold, its got a
P.C.V., (positive crankcase ventilation), valve on it.  What I want is a
high perf. manifold that will have the proper holes for my P.C.V.  If
you have any ideas email me.
Tom
P.S.  I am going to school at the United States Military Academy here in
NY while my dad is babying the Olds back home.  Thats the reason I think
it has the PCV valve.

>----------
>From: 	Lloyd Culp[SMTP:bculp@hiwaay.net]
>Sent: 	Friday, August 23, 1996 8:44 PM
>To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>Subject: 	Re: New Recruit
>
>> 
>> Majordomo,
>> 
>> My name is Tom Wright and I'm interested in being put on your mailing
>> list.  I own a 1966 Dynamic 88 two door hardtop with the standards
>> including a.c..  Under the hood its got a high compression 425 cu. in.
>> with  a two barrel and the TH-400 heavy duty tranny. Did I mention that
>> it has only 33,000 original miles?  Right now I'm looking for a four
>> barrel or three-two barrel intake manifold for my car.  I know that
>> numerous performance parts stores carry them but mine needs a manifold
>> with an E.G.R. valve.  Any clues as to were I might find one or anyone
>> who has one for sale would be greatly appreciated.  
>> 
>>  Cadet Tom Wright
>>                        
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Tom Wright
>
>
>Tom:
>
>Welcome.  My toronado has a 425 & they are nice.  I like those big 
>cruisers w/no miles.  It makes going back in time a little easier when 
>the car is like new.
>
>Why do you need an EGR ewuipped intake?  Is NY requiring it?  The
>1966's 
>didn't come w/one.
>
>Bill Culp
>Decatur, Alabama
>
>

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 16:41:57 -0300
Subject: Miracle Cure

Guys (and gals), remember my lament on Monday about the woes I 
experienced in my Cutlass a couple of weeks ago when I went to the USA? 
Several of you said that I should try a heavier weight and different 
brand of oil. I was slightly dubious but went out anyway and bought some 
Castrol 20W50, and changed it Tuesday night. I've driven the car a few 
times since.

The difference is quite remarkable. I frankly find it hard to believe. 
But the engine is hitting on all cylinders, vibration has gone, power is
restored, it's making nice engine sounds again, tick has disappeared, idle
even has settled down. The beast seems healthy again!  Thanks to those who
offered this advice. I had heard from my brother years ago that Rocket
V-8s were sensitive to oil type but never thought much of it until now.
I've become a believer! 

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: "Gregory G. Kalkhoff" <gkalkhof@execpc.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 19:26:28 -0300
Subject: Re: Need Carb for 1967 Delta 88

Mike Frederick wrote:
>
> When I get back over to the Cutlass boneyard, I'll check on it.
> I think there were 1 or 2 Deltas of that era sitting there.


Mike,

Thanks Mate!

Sparky

------------------------------

From: John & Robin Whitcore <retrotek@phoenixat.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 13:48:39 -0300
Subject: Seam Sealer vs. Silicone

Thanks for all the advice on radiator paint!  It's been helpful.

We also need to reseal our heater box.  Should we definitely use seam 
sealer or would black silicone work just as well?  Could you even tell 
the difference when they're dry & would they both last just as long?  
Or is seam sealer just easier to work with?


Thanks again for all the help!

Robin

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 17:45:44 -0300
Subject: Re: Air Lift Bags -Reply 

In a message dated 96-08-23 18:24:11 EDT, you write:

<< Since you're the expert on this bag thing, could you explain it to me a
bit
 more?  This is how I understand it so far:
 
 You get these air bags from places like Summit, correct?  You install them
 and put about 15 lbs. pressure in the passenger side and about 8 lbs. in
 the drivers' side?  What does that do?  Why the uneven pressures?  Does
 this improve traction with Posi rearends only?  Or is it meant for non-posi
 rearends?  Is this method a cheap replacement for posi?    Please explain
 how it works.  Thanks, Bob!
  >>

Thanks for the expert comment.  Of course you realize that someone becomes an
"expert" by learning, usually the hard way from mistakes (and don't forget
expensive).

First, we are talking about rear wheel drive here, aren't we?  If it's fwd
you have, the following still has some merit but not as much, or rather, it's
a bunch more complicated.

Try taking a tube, rod, baseball bat, whatever in your hand and twist it.
 Get someone else to hold the other end.  Whichever way you turn it the
recipient is forced to react to your twist.  In the same fashion your
driveshaft is not only transfering energy to the rear gear set, it is also
trying to lift/twist the right rear wheel off the ground.  Conversely it is
pushing the left wheel down into the pavement.  This produces an uneven
amount of traction.  Which rear wheel primarily spins on a non-posi car?  The
right rear.  

By making the suspension on the right rear side more resistant to this
lifting force traction is evened out and therefore improved.  In my
experience, a _lot_ of improvement.  It's also safer.  Cars with one rear
wheel spinning tend to go in circles eventually. :-)  With one having more
traction it will steer the car from behind. Not good at any time.

Using the AirLift bags will greatly improve the traction of a non-posi car
because if it were not for the described lifting action there would be no
bias and both wheels would spin or hook up the same (everything else even of
course).  There would be no need for posi (on dry pavement anyway).

Just because a car with posi _looks_ like it is hooking better, because the
driver can now make both wheels spin, it still isn't as good as it can be.
 If the right rear wheel is still being lifted it will also still have less
traction. And the bias is still trying to make the car turn.

Cars with and without posi rears will benefit from the AirLift bags run with
a higher psi on the right than that on the left.  What is best for a
particular car must be determined by actual testing. The goal is to have both
rear tires producing the same amount of energy transfer.  A rough way of
seeing if you have it right is that the right spinning wheel will leave
almost as much of a rubber stripe as the left. Actually, you can do this
using only one bag on the right.  I've seen drag cars set up like that.  The
problem is, that isn't a good idea for the street and besides the bags help
in another way.

The AirLift bags also resist the rear end of the car's body from squatting.
 When the car body drops in the back, basic physics (action = opposite
reaction) says that this further unloads the tires.  Ideally we want the
car's body to rise on acceleration.  This equals better traction too.  The
expensive suspension systems available from various manufacturers (e.g. Dick
Miller, Southside Machine and others) encourage body lift by changing the
geometry of the rear suspension.  The AirLift bags discourage body drop or
squatting more or less for free while equalizing rear tire dynamic loading.  

So, like good ole' Meatloaf says in his song, "Two of Three Ain't Bad". The
AirLift bags equalize the tire loading, reduce body squat but may or may not
contribute to body lift.  Not too bad for $60.

Does this make sense?  Try it, you'll like it.

J.C. Worthless also sells 'em.  I'm sure there are other vendors as well.

While you're at it, put in some good shocks.  And good rubber is _always_
first IMHO.

Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL
U.S. FDA Regulatory Affairs   (407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 10:52:52 -0300
Subject: '66 PCV

At 04:30 PM 8/24/96 -0300, you wrote:
>66 is my favorite year too.  My question is that since my Olds has
>Positive Crankcase Ventilation,(PCV), I have had a diificult time
>finding a high performance intake manifold that will fit everything
>together,  if you have any ideas I'd love to hear them.

Well, the PCV can be connected to any manifold vacuum source.  The one on my
69 Cutlass goes from the PCV valve on the RAcover to the carburetor.  It
connects to the carburetor in the front, at the bottom center.  Big hose
(3/8"), at least when compared to the regular vacuum lines (1/4" or less?).
Aftermarket intakes usually have several tapped and threaded bosses on them
for vacuum.  There should be one you could use for PCV (if your carb doesn't
have provision for it).  Or, as someone suggested earlier, put a "T" in the
vacuum line for the power brake booster, and hook it up there.  I would only
do that as a last resort, though.  You shouldn't have any problems finding a
place to hook it up. 
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #278
********************************
 
