To:	oldsmobile-digest @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET @ ABTLAB
Date:	08/15/96 01:59:45 PM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #267


oldsmobile-digest         Thursday, 15 August 1996      Volume 01 : Number 267


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 23:26:51 -0300
Subject: Re: blower fan -Reply

Blaine Sanders 5483 wrote:
> 
> >Actually HIGH is the only speed that _uses_ a relay. The lower speeds
> >go through a resistor pack mounted in the ductwork under the hood on
> 
> Hey, I've got the opposite prob.  All *except* High work on mine.  Any
> ideas why and how to fix?


More than likely, it's only the switch.
- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 07:58:23 -0300
Subject: Re: 80-87 rally guage pack help....... 

     That's a pretty common problem with the tach.  My '84 H/O does it too 
     intermittently (but not that bad, only 1k or so too high).  I'm sure 
     other people who've done the fix can give better details, but you need 
     to take the gauges out and there will be a clip on the back of the 
     tach to select 4, 6, or 8 cylinders (with the clip over 8).  Clean off 
     the contacts for that clip and bend the clip slightly so it makes 
     better contact.
     
     Oil pressure is probably the sending unit on the engine (just above 
     the water pump).  Replacement ones are only $15 from parts stores.
     
     Trip OD should be reset by pushing in the shaft and turning.  If it 
     doesn't work it may be broken.  The shaft on mine is almost stripped.  
     I don't think this is fixable without buying a new speedo.  You need 
     to take it completely apart to get to the stripped gear, and I don't 
     think you can buy just that gear anyways.
     
     I'm not familiar with the clock, but if it's the same as my '79 which 
     is above the radio between the A/C vents then you need to push down on 
     the wheel while turning it to adjust the clock.
     
     Tom L.

______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: 80-87 rally guage pack help.......
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    8/14/96 10:36 AM


The rally pack in my new 80 442 has some trouble. When the car is running the 
tach hovers around redline and when I give it a little gas it buries all the 
way. Also my oil pressure guage is buried all the way past 60psi. The temp 
amd gas guage work fine. Any hints as to the problem. I think that the 
printed circuit board might have corrosion on it? The tach is hooked into the 
distrib. all the way. Also how do I get the trip odomoter to reset? the reset 
button wont reset it, but the miles turn. Also I can't set the dash clock 
with the dial, but it works......Thanks 
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com)
1980 4-4-2 W-30....1 of 886 produced                                       
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25....H/OCA #0278A            
1988 Camaro IROC Z-28
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
     
     

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 14:15:36 -0300
Subject: Re: Compression Check 

>When you're doing a compression check, what wire should you pull to 
>ensure that the engine doesn't start? The hi-tension wire from the coil 
>to the distributor, or the 12v wire from the harness to the coil? 

I would suggest removing the 12V wire from the harness to the coil,
thus the coil gets no input, thus it won't fire.

I have heard that rather than simply unplugging the center lead
(a lot easier and quicker than disconnecting the 12V wire), you
are supposed to _ground_ it on the block, if you go that route.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 14:19:58 -0300
Subject: Re: blower fan -Reply 

>> Hey, I've got the opposite prob.  All *except* High work on mine.  Any
>> ideas why and how to fix?
>
>More than likely, it's only the switch.

To check the switch (if HIGH doesn't work), turn the ignition on but do
not start the engine, then move the switch to HIGH and listen for the
high-speed bypass relay under the hood to click. If it doesn't, the
switch is probably bad. If it does click, the harness connector is
probably partly-melted.

It's not always a loud *click*, so it helps to do this in a quiet garage,
and maybe pull the hot lead from the blower motor so you don't have to
listen over its noise on the lower speeds.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 18:20:40 -0300
Subject: Re: Compression Check

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
> 
> When you're doing a compression check, what wire should you pull to
> ensure that the engine doesn't start? 

The hi-tension wire from the coil to the distributor.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Joanne Beausoleil <jbeausol@ftp.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 15:22:34 -0300
Subject: FW: Darwin Awards (non car related jokes)

These broke up my day... enjoy.

- ----------
From: 	Larry MacLennan[SMTP:lmaclenn@ftp.com]
Sent: 	Wednesday, August 14, 1996 1:53 PM
To: 	jb
Subject: 	Fwd: Darwin Awards 

Date: Wed, 14 Aug 96 13:42:04 EDT  
From: Paul T. Gelinas
To: Mark D. Gelinas; Thomas P. Gelinas
Subject: Darwin Awards

- --=This Message brought to you by Paul Gelinas=--

>Darwin Awards
>
>     These are nearly always granted posthumously. This citation is
>     bestowed upon (the remains of) that individual, who through
>     single-minded self-sacrifice, has done the most to remove
undesirable
>     elements from the human gene pool.
>
>      ----------------------------------------------------------------
>     [San Jose Mercury News]
>     An unidentified man, using a shotgun like a club to break a former
>     girlfriend's windshield, accidentally shot himself to death when 
the
>     gun discharged, blowing a hole in his gut.
>
>      ----------------------------------------------------------------
>     [Hickory Daily Record, 12-21-92]
>     Ken Charles Barger, 47, accidentally shot himself to death in
December
>     in Newton, N. C., when, awakening to the sound of a ringing
telephone
>     beside his bed, he reached for the phone but grabbed instead a
Smith &
>     Wesson .38 Special, which discharged when he drew it to his ear.
>
>      ----------------------------------------------------------------
>     [News of the Weird, 18 May 93, San Jose Mercury News]
>     A 24-year-old salesman from Hialeah, Fla., was killed near
Lantana,
>     Fla., in March when his car smashed into a pole in the median
strip of
>     Interstate 95 in the middle of the afternoon. Police said that
the man
>     was traveling at 80 MPH and, judging by the sales manual that was
>     found open and clutched to his chest, had been busy reading.
>
>      ----------------------------------------------------------------
>     [Unknown, 25 March 1993] A Vapid Death
>
>     A terrible diet and room with no ventilation are being blamed for 
the
>     death of a man who was killed by his own gas. There was no mark
on his
>     body but autopsy showed large amounts of methane gas in his
system.
>     His diet had consisted primarily of beans and cabbage (and a
couple
>     other things). It was just the right combination of foods.
>
>     It appears that the man died in his sleep from breathing from the
>     poisonous cloud that was hanging over his bed. Had he been
outside or
>     had his windows opened it wouldn't have been fatal but the man was
>     shut up in his near airtight bedroom. He was ``...a big man with a
>     huge capacity for creating [this deadly gas].'' Three of the
rescue
>     workers got sick and one was hospitalized.
>
>      ----------------------------------------------------------------
>     [Reuters, Mississauga, Ontario]
>     Man slips, falls 23 stories to his death.
>
>     A man cleaning a bird feeder on his balcony of his condominium
>     apartment in this Toronto suburb slipped and fell 23 stories to
his
>     death, police said Monday.
>
>     Stefan Macko, 55, was standing on a wheeled chair Sunday when the
>     accident occurred, said Inspector D'Arcy Honer of the Peel
regional
>     police.
>
>     "It appears the chair moved and he went over the balcony," Honer 
said.
>      "It's one of those freak accidents. No foul play is suspected."
>
>      ----------------------------------------------------------------
>     [UPI, Toronto]
>     Police said a lawyer demonstrating the safety of windows in a
downtown
>     Toronto skyscraper crashed through a pane with his shoulder and
>     plunged 24 floors to his death.
>
>     A police spokesman said Garry Hoy, 39, fell into the courtyard of 
the
>     Toronto Dominion Bank Tower early Friday evening as he was
explaining
>     the strength of the building's windows to visiting law students.
>
>     Hoy previously had conducted demonstrations of window strength
>     according to police reports. Peter Lauwers, managing partner of
the
>     firm Holden Day Wilson, told the Toronto Sun newspaper that Hoy
was
>     ``one of the best and brightest'' members of the 200-man
association.
>
>
>      ----------------------------------------------------------------
>     [AP, Cairo, Egypt, 31 Aug 1995] CAIRO, Egypt (AP) -- Six people
>     drowned Monday while trying to rescue a chicken that had fallen
into a
>     well in southern Egypt.
>
>     An 18-year-old farmer was the first to descend into the 60-foot
well.
>     He drowned, apparently after an undercurrent in the water pulled 
him
>     down, police said.
>
>     His sister and two brothers, none of whom could swim well, went
in one
>     by one to help him, but also drowned. Two elderly farmers then
came to
>     help, but they apparently were pulled down by the same
undercurrent.
>
>     The bodies of the six were later pulled out of the well in the
village
>     of Nazlat Imara, 240 miles south of Cairo.
>
>     The chicken was also pulled out. It survived.
>
>      ----------------------------------------------------------------
>     [Times of London]
>     A thief who sneaked into a hospital was scarred for life when he 
tried
>     to get a suntan.
>
>     After evading security staff at Odstock Hospital in Salisbury,
>     Wiltshire, and helping himself to doctors' paging devices, the
thief
>     spotted a vertical sunbed. He walked into the unit and removed his
>     clothes for a 45-minute tan.
>
>     However, the high-voltage UV machine at the hospital, which is
>     renowned for its treatment of burns victims, has a maximum dosage 
of
>     ten seconds.  After lying on the bed for almost 300 times the
>     recommended maximum time the man was covered in blisters.
>
>     Hours later, when the pain of the burns became unbearable, he
went to
>     Southampton General Hospital, 20 miles away,in Hampshire. Staff
became
>     suspicious because he was wearing a doctor's coat. After tending 
his
>     wounds they called the police.
>
>     Southampton police said: "This man broke into Odstock and decided 
he
>     fancied a quick suntan. Doctors say he is going to be scarred for
>     life."

- --=End of forwarded message=--

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 08:31:49 -0300
Subject: Re: Compression Check 

     You're pretty much right.  But if you find a cylinder with low 
     compression, you can narrow it down a bit more by doing a wet 
     compression test.  Pour a teaspoon or two of oil into the questionable 
     cylinder and repeat the test.  If compression improves then the rings 
     were the problem (the oil temporarily seals it).  If it doesn't 
     improve, then it could be a gasket, valves, hole in the piston, etc.


______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: Compression Check
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    8/14/96 11:05 AM
     
Will the results of this test indicate anything other than a overall 
indication of possible problems? That is, I would assume that if 
compression is down in one cylinder, you could have ring problems or valve 
problems or head gasket problems, but that you wouldn't be able to tell 
anything more specific than that. True or am I missing something? 
     
Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
     
     
     

------------------------------

From: JJF97@uno.cc.geneseo.edu
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 17:12:43 -0300
Subject: Resto  Tips  .....

first I want to address the question raised about the "chrome" on dashes....

as for what glue works best.....   the company recommends their own brand,
but i found anything that gets tacky before permantly dry.....
I had a small part that i had detailed and just finished painting it....
it was "basically dry" but this sheet accidentally landed on it, and basically
chromed the part.....

On one of these posts, i will give the company's name as soon as i find it home
(that produces the chrome like finish)

 Oh, and you should also apply the glue to the surface to be "chromed" but not
the "mylar type sheet"

Now for today's tip.....

This one is almost too obvious to mention, but having the factory assembly
manuals close at hand during every step of your restoration just makes sense.
You'd be surprised how easily some assemblies would come apart if you only 
knew where all the fasteners were.

Resto Corner

- --joe ferrero

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 17:31:41 -0300
Subject: Re: Small Block ID 

Here is the content (still missing lots of information) of the 2.x FAQ.

- ----- Small Block Block Codes -----
ID/                    Casting
Code   Year(s)   CID   Number    Notes
- ----   -------   ---   -------   -----
1      '64       330   381917 ???
2      '65       330   381917 ???
2      '68-70??  350   381917 ???
3                330   381917 ???
4
5
2A     '76-81    260
2B               260
3A
4A     '77       403   557265    Solid main webs likely for these three
                       553990    casting numbers.
                       554990    
4B     '77-79    403   557265    Windowed main webs always.
       '85       307   556607

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

- ------------
Does anybody have the casting numbers to ID small block Olds engines (330's
in particular)?  I looked in the FAQ, but couldn't find anything.  The chart
for small block ID is mostly blank...
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Bill Gochenour <billg@sjuvm.stjohns.edu>
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 1996 18:58:53 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds Recovered

Jason P. Labay wrote:
> 
> >>Hello,
> >  I'm in Buffalo, and I just saw an '83 442 for sale for around $3-4000
> >(somewhere in there), didn't know if anyone was interested or not.  Also saw
> >an '87 442 for sale - garaged, no winters, low milage - for $8200.00, or a
> >little less probably.  If anyone is interested, mail me back.  I'd be happy
> >to hook you up with some phone #'s.
> >
> >                                                       Craig Dobbins
> >                                                       Kissrulz@gnn.com
> 
> My 442 fact book that I just bought says that no 83 442's were made. The 80
> 442 was the last one made until 1985. Buyer beware......
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com)
> 1980 4-4-2 W-30....1 of 886 produced
> 1975 Hurst/Olds W-25....H/OCA #0278A
> 1988 Camaro IROC Z-28
> -------------------------------------------------------------------A good 
way to tell is, Oldsmobile didn't make 442's and Hurst/Olds 
together in the same production year, especially in 1983, that was the 
year for the 15th Anniversary Hurst/Olds. And in 1984 the same rule holds 
true, it was also a H/O year. 

- -- 

Bill !                                         _           _       ___
                                             /  |        /  |    /  _  \
1983 Hurst/Olds 15th Aniversary Edition    /    |      /    |   |_|   | |
1986 442 The Perfect "10"                /  / | |_   /  / | |_      /  /
1993 Chevrolet Lumina Z-34              |_____   _| |_____   _|   /  /__
                                              |_|         |_|   |_______|
          
               Visit http://yogi-bear.stjohns.edu/~toychest

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 19:27:51 -0300
Subject: Re: Compression Check

Andrew C. Green wrote:
> 
> I have heard that rather than simply unplugging the center lead
> (a lot easier and quicker than disconnecting the 12V wire)...

Sure is.

> ...you are supposed to _ground_ it on the block, if you go that route.

Sounds like Mechanic's Electro-Paranoia Syndrome (MEPS).

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Nick DiGiovanni <ndigiova@direct.ca>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 15:27:19 -0300
Subject: Re: 4 to 7 blade fan replacement 

At 04:17 PM 8/14/96 -0300, you wrote:
>	a) it takes horsepower to turn a fan.
>	b) it isn't needed over 30-35 as airflow will do the cooling.
>
>So the clutch was added to eliminate the HP soak ;) when the vehicle 
>speed makes it unnecessary.  If that is true than not using a clutch will 
>not increase cooling at speed and will decrease available HP.  
>
>Opinions?
>
>The 66 Toro and Mike
>
>
>-- 
>Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
>     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
>     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

Yes, I agree with the above statements.  I was refering the comment that
these engines run hot as being "during idle traffic".  There for it would be
more beneficial to have a fan turning all the time in such conditions.  As
far as when the vehicle reaches speed then there probably is no difference
between the two for cooling.  The small HP loss with a clutchless fan is
also probably not noticable unless you are drag racing.

Another thing that can be done to increase cooling during idle somewhat is
to put a larger diameter pulley on the water pump and/or a smaller one on
the crank.  This will in effect increase the flow through the water pump and
the entire cooling system.  As long as the rad is large enough to
dissipate/exchange the heat fast enough then this should help.
 
Nick DiGiovanni
Port Coquitlam, B.C.
1970 4-4-2 - "Snarls Softly and Carries a Big Kick"

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 09:12:27 -0300
Subject: Re: brakes, misc. stuff

>Into the middle of the valve body, by any chance? Half the brake lines on
>either side of it?

Yes...

>Basically you've got a little piston in the middle of a cylinder bore,
>
>So what's pressing on the piston from either end are both brake systems,
>one at each end. 

Ok, I understand that, but the light isn't on.  Bulb is OK.  I'll get back
to you after I replace the front rubber lines.  I've had 'em for two days
now, but it rains every day after work.  Makes it hard to work on the car
without a garage handy...

>Testing to see if there's continuity through the warning light
>terminal to ground through the valve body would be interesting. 

I'll have to check that!!  Thanks..

>Andrew C. Green  
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 09:28:59 -0300
Subject: Front drums

Does anybody know if the front drums are supposed to come off separately on
my 69 Cutlass?  When I need to remove them, I always have to take the drum
off with the hub (I have to get all greasy from the wheel bearings :( ),
because the wheel studs are pressed through both.  It would be a whole lot
easier if I could just take off the drum!
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: mike.blankenship@medaphis.com
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 17:08:20 -0300
Subject: W30 Bars

Anybody know anything about the 2 extra suspension bars for the rear end on
some W30's.  I have had several W30's, some had them, some did not. The last 
2 documented W27 cars I have seen, including mine have had them. 

Art, any thoughts?


 

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 17:08:58 -0300
Subject: Re: Compression Check

> > I have heard that rather than simply unplugging the center lead
> > (a lot easier and quicker than disconnecting the 12V wire)...
> 
> Sure is.
> 
> > ...you are supposed to _ground_ it on the block, if you go that route.
> 
> Sounds like Mechanic's Electro-Paranoia Syndrome (MEPS).
> 
> The 66 Toro and Mike

The object is to keep the engine from starting.  Unplugging the center
lead will do that just fine.

My understanding is that you should also remove at least one other
spark plug, so that back pressure from the other cylinders does
not interfere with the reading from your cylinder?

- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-5450    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 16:10:34 -0300
Subject: Re: brakes, misc. stuff 

>Ok, I understand that, but the light isn't on.  Bulb is OK.  I'll get back
>to you after I replace the front rubber lines.  I've had 'em for two days
>now, but it rains every day after work.  Makes it hard to work on the car
>without a garage handy...

Yeah, well, don't spend too much time on my theory. I can't see how new
rubber lines are going to affect a solid pedal, but maybe you'll spot
something while you're working down there. Basically if you've got a
good power booster and the pedal won't go down, something is blocking the
fluid travel, IMHO. Either lines are blocked or, say, both front calipers
have seized, something loony like that...  :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: LRoss922@aol.com
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 17:32:11 -0300
Subject: 71 Delta Royale 

Does anyone out there own a 1971 Delta Royale?
Mine is the hardtop. 
I was just wondering if there were any out there, because I never see any, or
hear about them.  I know that they are rare.

Brad Ross
71 Delta Royale Holiday Hardtop

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 17:46:18 -0300
Subject: Need Toro vac. headlight door parts 

My friend Didi's '69 Toro has problem with his headlight doors: they go down
when he turns them off, but they won't go up unless the vacuum switch for
the doors is given a little "help" with a screwdriver (apparently the spring
inside the switch is weak). In addition, his check valve for the doors is
cracked and he could use another.

So, if anyone has a vacuum headlight door switch (not the headlight switch
with vacuum ports, but rather the one under the left front fender, kinda
looks like:

   /|__||_||_||_
 =(  ___________| 
   \|

with three large vacuum ports and one small one on the end with a diaphram)
and a check valve (with three connections, like:

   /|=
 =( |=
   \|

)for a '69 Toronado, e-mail me directly (he is not on the 'net yet).

Other than that and a non-functional vacuum trunk release, his Toro is in
perfect operating condition. He is putting it in the paper for $6900 thru
the end of this week, but is kinda hoping nobody calls; he really loves that
car (did I mention he also has good taste in cars...).

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: LRoss922@aol.com
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 18:11:49 -0300
Subject: Hood Insulation Pad 

Does anyone know what kind of adhesive to use when installing a hood
insulation pad? I have no idea.  Please help!
Thank you.

Brad Ross  OCA# 026076
71 Delta Royale

------------------------------

From: Dave Voorhis <dave@armchair.mb.ca>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 18:15:08 -0300
Subject: Re: Need Toro vac. headlight door parts 

At 05:46 PM 14/08/96 -0300, you wrote:

>Other than that and a non-functional vacuum trunk release, his Toro is in
>perfect operating condition. He is putting it in the paper for $6900 thru
>the end of this week, but is kinda hoping nobody calls; he really loves that
>car (did I mention he also has good taste in cars...).

Ok, what's wrong with this picture?  He's selling it, but he doesn't want it
to sell???

I don't get it.

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 18:42:50 -0300
Subject: Re: Need Toro vac. headlight door parts -Reply 

>Ok, what's wrong with this picture?  He's selling it, but he doesn't want
>it to sell???
>
>I don't get it.

Well, sometimes you're really hard-up for a large amount of cash.  So
you decide to sell something you're really fond of -- even though you
don't want to -- because that's the only thing (besides maybe your
house) that you can get that kinda money out of.  So you ask an
outrageous amount of money (because that's how much it's worth to
you, sentimentally), hoping that no one will be dumb enough to buy it.  But
if someone were to offer you what you are asking for it, you'd be able to
justify parting with it.  Understand?

- -Blaine

------------------------------

From: ngomez@iadfw.net (Nick Gomez)
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 17:48:22 -0300
Subject: FWD: FS 1967 Olds 442 (Dallas)

>> Light Blue, white vinyl top.
>> Aqua marine interior.
>> Original motor and turbo 400
>> Console, clock, AC, Rear power antenna, SS1's, SS2's
>> No rust, never hit, built in Fremont CA
>> 3:08 ratio
>> AM radio-works

FROM: "John L. Berenyi" <a210518@texas.dseg.ti.com>

- ------------------------------------------------------------------
1965 Oldsmobile 98          TIP # 1048         Trade Live Concerts
Dallas, Texas             MiSTie # 53344        Collect Hot Wheels
- ------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 17:43:00 -0300
Subject: Re: Hood Insulation Pad 

>Does anyone know what kind of adhesive to use when installing a hood
>insulation pad? I have no idea.  Please help!

I'm a little mystified. All the pads I've ever seen were held on with
plastic discs clipped through the pad into a hole in the subframe. If
you try to glue it on, won't the pad simply tear away the outer layer?
Was the original glued on? What year/model of car are we talking about?

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: curly@sgi.net
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 18:14:23 -0300
Subject: Re: Compression Check 

My understanding is that you should also remove at least one other
>spark plug, so that back pressure from the other cylinders does
>not interfere with the reading from your cylinder?
>
>
you are supposed to remove all the plugs with the engine warm, crank the
engine three revolutions with the throttle blocked wide open for the correct
procedure fellows...

Jeff

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 19:04:55 -0300
Subject: Re: W30 Bars 

All 442's from 70 to 72 with the FE3 suspension came with these extra two
arms.

They were ment to stop excessive body roll and frame flex.  Also any other
Cutlass"s with the FE3 suspension got these arms such as SX, Ralley 350, W-31
and W-30's.   Dick Miller is now offering these arms to modify your present
suspension.  They are very handy in Drag racing.




W MACHINES (Mark Prince)
72 442 W-30 race rocket

------------------------------

From: "AUVAX7::RILES" <RILES%AUVAX7.decnet@auscam.amd.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 19:19:00 -0300
Subject: Re: W30 Bars

A friend gave me these, but I haven't put them on yet.  If they are the same 
as you 
are talking about, they are about a foot long (?) with a hole drilled in each 
end.  
They attach to the upper control arm somehow.   Anyone have the exact 
procedure for 
installing these thingys.

- -Robert Iles
'71 Cutlass Convertible



>All 442's from 70 to 72 with the FE3 suspension came with these extra two
>arms.

>They were ment to stop excessive body roll and frame flex.  Also any other
>Cutlass"s with the FE3 suspension got these arms such as SX, Ralley 350, W-31
>and W-30's.   Dick Miller is now offering these arms to modify your present
>suspension.  They are very handy in Drag racing.




>W MACHINES (Mark Prince)
>72 442 W-30 race rocket

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 19:35:42 -0300
Subject: Re: Compression Check 

Hi Greg, you can get by removing the center coil wire from the coil to cap.
You can do this as long as there is no metal objects to interfer the coil.
If you notice spark when turned over then you have to turn it over by hand.
The harmonic balance bolt is 1 1/8, so get your breaker bar out and turn it
over.

The best way to test a engine is to use what is called a leak down tester.
It can tell you if your rings are bad or if you have burnt intake or exhaust
valves.
A compression tester will give a reading of something wrong in the cylinder
but 
won't diagnois it.  The leak down tester is down by percentages and an air
compressor is needed.   If any more questions E-Mail me anytime or call
at 313 336 8135 after 5:00 P.M. easteren.



W MACHINES (Mark Prince)
72 442 W-30 race rocket

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 19:39:40 -0300
Subject: Re: W30 Bars 

In a message dated 96-08-14 18:36:34 EDT, you write:

<<  Anyone have the exact procedure for 
 installing these thingys. >>

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 19:45:41 -0300
Subject: Re: W30 Bars 

In a message dated 96-08-14 18:36:34 EDT, you write:

<<  Anyone have the exact procedure for 
 installing these thingys. >>


oops first reply sent accidently

Yes I do now how to put these arms on.  My assembly manual shows me and plus
my cars does have them.  If you want a copy of installing these arms, E-Mail
me with your address and phone number and I will send it free of charge.


W MACHINES (Mark Prince)
72 442 W-30 race rocket 


W MACHINES@AOL.COM

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 20:26:51 -0300
Subject: Re: W30 Bars

I believe those bars are just part of the FE2 suspension. I've found them on 
every car that had boxed control arms with the sway bar. How about the bars 
that 
go from the fire wall to the holes in the fenders near the hood hinges? Those 
should be there also on a hardtop.

Art

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 15:36:12 -0300
Subject: Re: Front drums

Dave Paulison wrote:
> 
> Does anybody know if the front drums are supposed to come off separately on
> my 69 Cutlass?  When I need to remove them, I always have to take the drum
> off with the hub   It would be a whole lot
> easier if I could just take off the drum!
> --
> Dave Paulison         

Dave:

They're not separate.  you must remove the wheel bearings to get the 
drum off on the front.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: mike.blankenship@medaphis.com
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 21:00:00 -0300
Subject: Re: W30 Bars

All my big block hardtops have the bars inside the fender to the fire wall,
my convt doesnt.  I dont think they came on convt's.  I pulled a 3:23 posi
out of a 72 442 monday and it did not come those extra bars, There is a 
70 Ralleye 350 out back with 77,000 miles and it doesnt have those extra bars
either.  I guess all this Georgia clay sucked them right off!


________________________________________________________________________________

I believe those bars are just part of the FE2 suspension. I've found them on 
every car that had boxed control arms with the sway bar. How about the bars 
that 
go from the fire wall to the holes in the fenders near the hood hinges? Those 
should be there also on a hardtop.

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 16:00:02 -0300
Subject: Re: brakes, misc. stuff

Andrew C. Green wrote:
> 
> >Ok, I understand that, but the light isn't on.  Bulb is OK.  I'll get back
> >to you after I replace the front rubber lines.  I've had 'em for two days
> >now, but it rains every day after work.  Makes it hard to work on the car
> >without a garage handy...
> 
> Yeah, well, don't spend too much time on my theory. I can't see how new
> rubber lines are going to affect a solid pedal, 
> 
> Andrew C. Green            


If you are worried about the rubber lines at all, I would replace them. 
 They can collapse inside easily & restrict the brakes.  One side 
collapsing can cause athe opposite brake to pull or can lock up the side 
w/the collapsing hose.  The ususal fear is that the hose will break & 
spill all of the brake fluid.  If they are cracked or checked you want 
to replace them anyway. 

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 14:04:49 -0300
Subject: Re: FWD: FS 1967 Olds 442 (Dallas)

At 05:48 PM 8/14/96 -0300, you wrote:
> Light Blue, white vinyl top.
> Aqua marine interior.
> Original motor and turbo 400
> Console, clock, AC, Rear power antenna, SS1's, SS2's
                                          ^^^^^  ^^^^^

Which wheels does it have??  Both SSI and SSII?

>FROM: "John L. Berenyi" <a210518@texas.dseg.ti.com>
>
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 14:28:03 -0300
Subject: Re: brakes, misc. stuff

At 04:00 PM 8/14/96 -0300, you wrote:

>
>If you are worried about the rubber lines at all, I would replace them. 
> They can collapse inside easily & restrict the brakes.  One side 
>collapsing can cause athe opposite brake to pull or can lock up the side 
>w/the collapsing hose.  The ususal fear is that the hose will break & 
>spill all of the brake fluid.  If they are cracked or checked you want 
>to replace them anyway. 
>
>Bill Culp

Well, I replaced them (it finally stopped raining!).  The old ones, while
not the originals, were quite old, brittle and cracked.  Not real hard to
replace.  I was excpecting the nuts on the flare fittings to be hard to
break free, but they weren't.  Did the whole job in less than an hour.
That's the good news.  Bad news is it didn't have any effect on the
operation of the brakes (darn!).  I think I'll replace that vacuum booster
again.  The one I just bought has a lifetime warranty, so the replacement
will be free.  Someone posted a way to check it -- with the pedal depressed
and the engine running, it should rise a little when you shut off the
engine.  Well, it doesn't do that.  It holds vacuum, but I suppose that
doesn't mean it works.  I think I'll replace the rubber line for the rear
brakes, too, it's probably just as old as the front ones.  There should be
just one, right, going from a hard line in the rear to a junction block on
the rear axle? (I haven't checked...)  If that doesn't fix it, I think next
I'll try and find a proportioning valve, and maybe replace the front wheel
cylinders (they're old).  All that's left after that is the hard brake
lines.  I'm running out of things that can be broken.  Sheesh, there's not
_that_ much to a braking system.  The rear wheel cylinders are new; could
they be causing a problem (locked up or something)?  For that matter, could
the old front ones be doing the same thing?  Everything inside the drums
appears to function normally, but maybe I'm overlooking something.  

Your suggestions are, of course, welcome!

Thanks!
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 22:55:03 -0300
Subject: Re: W30 Bars

I bet Keith Coffey took them off. Who knows? Maybe the person on the assembly 
line put them on whenever he felt like it.

Art

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 23:04:08 -0300
Subject: Re: New Olds added to my collection....

>
>Does it have the big gold blocks painted on the hood and trunk?

Yes, I have a picture of a 1979 H/O and compared it to my 80 442. They look
identical paint wise and have the same W-30 graphics on the front fender.
>
>I assume its a single cat with a y-pipe and dual mufflers (ala late

Yes, after I finally got down and really looked it has an exhaust setup
nearly the same as my 88 IROC.  Single pipe leads to a dual outlet muffler
with the exhaust dumping just behind the wheel on both sides

>Send a picture to Bryce's web page so we can see what it looks like.

I have to take some pictures this weekend. I am taking it to another car
show Friday. Wonder if Bryce can scan my pics as I do not have a scanner? 
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com)
1980 4-4-2 W-30....1 of 886 produced                                       
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25....H/OCA #0278A            
1988 Camaro IROC Z-28
- -------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 23:04:17 -0300
Subject: Car Alarm Advice.... 

Can someone recommend a good car alarm that wont mess up the original look
of my 80 442? Something good, not one that uses alking or chirping as its
main defense. I want starter disable, etc. I am spoiled with my 88 IROC
having fuel injection I just yanked the fsues for the pump and injectors. My
80 442 has no ECM. Thanks...
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com)
1980 4-4-2 W-30....1 of 886 produced                                       
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25....H/OCA #0278A            
1988 Camaro IROC Z-28
- -------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 23:04:15 -0300
Subject: build sheet location help 

Can anybody clue me in as to where the build sheet in a 1980 Cutlass would
be? I looked behind the rear seat, under the rear seat and deadener, under
the carpet on both rear floor pans and under the drivers seat carpet. Only
side I did not check was under the carpet on the passenger side. Where did
everyone with 80-87 Cutlass's find their build sheets? Thanks......
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com)
1980 4-4-2 W-30....1 of 886 produced                                       
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25....H/OCA #0278A            
1988 Camaro IROC Z-28
- -------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 23:14:18 -0300
Subject: Re: FW: Darwin Awards (non car related jokes) 

In a message dated 96-08-14 14:59:29 EDT, you write:

<< These broke up my day... enjoy. >>

Enjoy?  About people shooting themselves or falling out of windows or being
scarred for life?  I don't think so.  Next time I'll pass, thanks.

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 23:17:10 -0300
Subject: OCA Nat's 

In a message dated 96-08-14 14:05:48 EDT, you write:

<< How about a report on the proceedings in Atlanta? >>

Well, attendance was kinda down, only around 325 cars this year.  Very few
older cars this year, I don't blame them because of the traffic and roadways
around there.  Finally ventured out onto a back road on Wednesday to go to
Kroger's -- twice.  Then went out again to go for dinner on Friday and
Saturday.  Traffic wasn't that bad after all.

Got to Atlanta around 12:30 on Tuesday.  Still had some Olympic groupies
there.  There were about a dozen BIG tractor trailers in the parking lot that
were shipped for overseas for news coverage.  They were gone be Wednesday.
 Went to the bar for lunch around 2pm.  My traveling companions had 2 grilled
cheese sandwiches w/fries, a cheeseburger and 2 drinks -- bill was $27,
Welcome to Atlanta!

 I came away with very little from the swap meet.  Many people told me they
were disappointed with it.  Saw a very complete Rallye Pack that I wanted for
my '72 C/S.  Didn't have a price.  Hate asking how much things are when
they're not marked.  You know what they say about if you have to ask how much
it costs...  Went back a few times and finally bought a trunk release switch
from him.  "How much for that Rallye Pack."  "Which one?"  I look at the
table.  "Oh, it's gone, what did you get for it?"  $400.  Would have bought
that, I've bought stuff from this fella before and I know he doesn't sell
junk.  Had all the senders and connectors.  Decided to put off the Rallye
Pack for another year.  Saw another set there, not as nice for $550!

Also looked at a power bucket seat track (no price) and power door locks (no
price).  Kept walking.

Also looked at a NOS UHV ignition system for my '67 98.  It was marked for a
'67 W30, but the part # on the distributor shows up in the chassis service
manual for the 400 or 425 HC 2bbl engine.  Mines the 4bbl, so I was a little
afraid it wouldn't be right for my car.  Didn't have the coil either, but it
did have the amplifier, wiring harness, red cap and distributor.  $350.
 Looked at that more than once, but all I saw were headaches.

Also looked at a Dual Gate console, $400, missing slider plate and shifter
knob and maybe the mounting brackets.  Nice, unbroken console, wiring
harness, good decals and "chrome".  May have been missing the shifter cable.

REALLY wanted a '67 Service Guild and Service Bulletin set.  Found one for
$50.  Thought that was too much.  Some of the other years were cheaper.  I
was thinking more aroung $35.  Thought I'd let him look at it a while.
 Looked at it many times.  Finally went to make a deal.  It was gone.  Damn,
 second time in 2 days!  Now I'm starting to get mad.

RE Olds museum was selling '92 showroom banners by the set or individually.
 I bought a set.  Still have Silhouette and Cutlass Ciera left over.  They're
$10 each plus shipping.  If anyone wants one of these, email me.

Sold my set of '71 dealer albums and an 8-track player for $125.00

Took second place with my '98, didn't even wash it.  Judges took off a lot of
points for the dented fender.  I tried to tell them it fell off the truck in
'67 and was never fixed, but I don't think they bought it.  If I didn't have
that dent, and if I had washed it, I think I would have had best of class.
 Had another '67 98 Coupe in the unrestored class, what are the odds of that?
 He got a first.  Good solid car, but it's gonna need some paint work and a
pair of fender skirts.  Only other '67 coupe I have seen in person since I
bought mine in '94

I understand they ran out of food at the awards banquet Saturday nite and had
the kitchen scrambling to put out whatever they could find.

Then there was the limo that pulled up at the main entrance, 5 drunks got
out, one of whom decided he needed to relieve himself in the shrubbery, if
front of some of the OCA females.  One of the male members tried to correct
him, fight followed, film at 11.

Like I said, I say Peg O'Conner at the awards banquet.  She didn't see me
'cause I was out in the hallway.  The MC had her stand up, was saying
something a parking lite lens.  Didn't make any sense to me, then he left her
sit down.  Peg won a door prize, looked like a t-shirt of some sort.

Names in the program book:

Mike Blankenship - 69 Hurst - didn't get up that way
Gregg Ludlam - 67 Toronado - don't think he was there 
Bob Handren - 67 Cutlass - saw that one from a distance
Bob Handren - 70 SX - but not this one
Peg O'Conner - 86 C/S - was in the beater class, I think she should have won

That's about it, lots going on for a few days.

Paul 

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 23:14:47 -0300
Subject: Re: Front drums 

In a message dated 96-08-14 16:06:59 EDT, you write:

<< Does anybody know if the front drums are supposed to come off separately
on
 my 69 Cutlass?  When I need to remove them, I always have to take the drum
 off with the hub (I have to get all greasy from the wheel bearings :( ),
 because the wheel studs are pressed through both.  It would be a whole lot
 easier if I could just take off the drum!
 -- >>

My '72 C/S has one of each!!  I like the separate drum better.

Paul

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 00:14:04 -0300
Subject: Re: W30 Bars 

In a message dated 96-08-14 19:33:08 EDT, you write:

<< I believe those bars are just part of the FE2 suspension. >>
I stand corrected the package is FE2, my 90 Quad 442 has the FE3
suspension.  AS for the Ralley without the bars in the rear, my friend
here in MI has them on his car, but he is the sixth owner.  Maybe
only Big Block cars get them, because as for the front fender bars
only BB Olds I have seen them on.  Weird, just another I thought well maybe
I really don't know.

W Machines 

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 00:27:46 -0300
Subject: Re: Woodward Dream Cruise '96 

Well anybody with Oldsmobiles can meet me at 13 mile and Woodward
on the Southbound side at the shopping center.  I will be wearing a 
7th Annual Mondello Olds Nat t-shirt and will have a small green pinic table
with an umbrella.  My Name is Mark and I will be looking for MIke Hall and 
Brian (sorry forgot last name).  So either E-mail me and I will give you
times
or I'll just see you there.

W MACHINES
SADDLE BRONZE AND BAMBOO color 72 442 W-30 race rocket
Mark Prince

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 00:42:47 -0300
Subject: Re: Woodward Dream Cruise '96

> From oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca Wed Aug 14 23:33 EDT 1996
> Date: 	Thu, 15 Aug 1996 00:27:46 -0300
> From: WMACHINES@aol.com
> Well anybody with Oldsmobiles can meet me at 13 mile and Woodward
> on the Southbound side at the shopping center.  I will be wearing a 
> 7th Annual Mondello Olds Nat t-shirt and will have a small green pinic table
> with an umbrella.  My Name is Mark and I will be looking for MIke Hall and 
> Brian (sorry forgot last name).  So either E-mail me and I will give you
> times
> or I'll just see you there.
> 
> W MACHINES
> SADDLE BRONZE AND BAMBOO color 72 442 W-30 race rocket
> Mark Prince

Okay, 13 & Woodward, Southbound side.

East or West side?

What time?


- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-5450    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: "Gary Bowles" <bodog@napanet.net>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 00:31:55 -0300
Subject: Heater core leak

On my '70 Olds 442 W-30, the shop mechanic said that the heater core had a
pinhole leak just enough to steam up the windows (or something like that).
 Does anyone know how to take apart a heater core and/or install a new
one?  Or is there an easier way?  My car DOES have A/C!
Thanks!!!
Brad
'70 Olds 442 W-30

------------------------------

From: "Gary Bowles" <bodog@napanet.net>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 00:34:03 -0300
Subject: Paint codes

On my '70 Olds 442 W-30, the paint codes are 78 and 78.  I know the W-30's
are supposed to have a stripe.  What does this code decipher as?
Thanks!!!
Brad
'70 Olds 442 W-30

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 01:15:59 -0300
Subject: Re: Woodward Dream Cruise '96 

In a message dated 96-08-14 23:50:48 EDT, you write:

<< Okay, 13 & Woodward, Southbound side. >>
on west side of the street,  we are leaving at 5:30 A.M. because of all the 
traffic.  I will try to save a few spots but might be difficult

W MACHINES

------------------------------

From: DESIMONEP@aol.com
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 01:28:11 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds' on the big screen 

In beverly hills cop II Eddie Murphy is driving a 68 rag top!

Phil

------------------------------

From: DESIMONEP@aol.com
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 01:28:46 -0300
Subject: Re: 4 to 7 blade fan replacement

- --PART.BOUNDARY.0.25997.emout14.mail.aol.com.840083325
Content-ID: <0_25997_840083325@emout14.mail.aol.com.46293>
Content-type: text/plain

In a message dated 96-08-11 04:59:04 EDT, you write:

<< Hello,
   I own a '68 442 convert, all matching #'s, has the original 400 engine.  I

 know from experience that these engine's run hot.  I picked up a 7-blade
Olds 
 fan w/clutch (not sure if from a '68 or '70 or '71, but one of those) for 
 almost nothing.  I want to replace my 4-blade with the 7-blade to keep the 
 engine cooler.  Is there anything I should know before I just start 
 wrenching?  Should I leave the origianl clutch in there, or replace the
whole 
 thing or what?  If anyone knows anything about this, please write back to
me, 
 I'd appreciate it.
 
                                                    Craig Dobbins >>

I also own a 1968 convertible. I would get so upset at the temp on hot sunny
days out here in CA that I went crazy!!! I replaced the stock radiator with a
custom built 6 row copper one with extra large tanks. I rerouted the trans
cooling lines to a separate trans cooler with it's own electric fan. I then
"squeezed", actually they fit nicely, two Black Magic Flex-a-lite 150
electric fans on the radiator. They work fantastic, they are thermostatically
activated, as well as manually by switches under the dash. With a 160 degree
thermostat the engine sits between 170 and 190 all day long, at idle, on the
road, in the hottest temps!!!

The rad was $500, the trans cooler was $125 and the large fans were $170
each. A lot of money I know, but the car runs cool ALL the time, not to
mention a couple extra horses for the motor not having to run the water pump
fan. I do recommend upgrading to a new style internal regulator, higher amp
rating alternator, all three fans pull about 30-35 amps. They're not all on
at the same time though! I kept all the original pieces I didn't use for
originalities sake!

Back to your question though, I did upgrade my 4 blade to a 7 blade before I
did this upgrade, and it did help a bit. I would replace your clutch with a
heavy duty unit since your pulling it apart anyway, but if you meet
resistance with your fan as you try to move it with the engine off, "uh,
huh!", then your original one should work OK.

Good luck,  Phil

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- --PART.BOUNDARY.0.25997.emout14.mail.aol.com.840083325--

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 01:28:38 -0300
Subject: Fwd: W-machines 

In a message dated 96-08-15 00:06:44 EDT, W MACHINES writes:

<< W-Machines is the name of the news letter that the Olds Performance
Chapter uses, but membership has dwindled.  Most members 
 are from Northeast such as OH,MI,PA,IN and some in KY.  I am just a member
 who took the handle W MACHINES because I own two real 72 W-30's.  If 
 OPC came on line on the web, I change my handle but the club is 
 in serious trouble due to four events going on at one time.  I.E.  H/O nats,
 Mondello Nats, OCC nats then OPC meet. The good news is that they 
 do have some new guy doing their newsletters now.  The old newsletter
 looked like a office memo from a cheap fax.
 
 
 W MACHINES (Mark Prince)
   >>

had to retransmitte  
- ---------------------
Forwarded message:
Subj:    Re: W-machines
Date:    96-08-15 00:06:44 EDT
From:    W MACHINES
To:      mike.blankenship@medaphis.com

W-Machines is the name of the news letter that the Olds Performance Chapter
uses, but membership has dwindled.  Most members 
are from Northeast such as OH,MI,PA,IN and some in KY.  I am just a member
who took the handle W MACHINES because I own two real 72 W-30's.  If 
OPC came on line on the web, I change my handle but the club is 
in serious trouble due to four events going on at one time.  I.E.  H/O nats,
Mondello Nats, OCC nats then OPC meet. The good news is that they 
do have some new guy doing their newsletters now.  The old newsletter
looked like a office memo from a cheap fax.


W MACHINES (Mark Prince)
 

------------------------------

From: spud@kudonet.com (Spud)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 02:05:51 -0300
Subject: Re: 4 to 7 blade fan replacement 

>Another thing that can be done to increase cooling during idle somewhat is
>to put a larger diameter pulley on the water pump and/or a smaller one on
>the crank.  This will in effect increase the flow through the water pump and
>the entire cooling system.  As long as the rad is large enough to
>dissipate/exchange the heat fast enough then this should help.
> 
>Nick DiGiovanni

Nick, I you have that backwards, that is, if you want the fan to spin
faster.  The drive wheel diameter should increase and/or the driven wheel
diameter should decrease.  This way, the driven wheel spins an additional
amount for every rotation of the drive wheel.


Spud     "Fart proudly."
'86 FXST   --Benjamin Franklin
'73 Delta 88
'79 LeBaron

------------------------------

From: spud@kudonet.com (Spud)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 02:05:53 -0300
Subject: Re: 71 Delta Royale 

>Does anyone out there own a 1971 Delta Royale?
>Mine is the hardtop. 
>I was just wondering if there were any out there, because I never see any, or
>hear about them.  I know that they are rare.
>
>Brad Ross
>71 Delta Royale Holiday Hardtop

I don't have a '71, but I do have a '73 Delta 88 Royale, two-door, with
vinyl hardtop, 455 cid.  I haven't really tried to learn much about it
beyond keeping it running reasonably well.  Please expand on the "Holiday
Hardtop."


Spud     "Fart proudly."
'86 FXST   --Benjamin Franklin
'73 Delta 88
'79 LeBaron

------------------------------

From: spud@kudonet.com (Spud)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 02:05:42 -0300
Subject: Re: Compression Check 

>Greg Beaulieu wrote:
>> 
>> When you're doing a compression check, what wire should you pull to
>> ensure that the engine doesn't start? 
>
>The hi-tension wire from the coil to the distributor.
>
>The 66 Toro and Mike

>Michael R. Frederick

This is my thought, too.  However, a word of caution, if you have an ACCEL
HEI SuperCoil: the instructions for the one I installed in my Delta 88
warned not to have the ignition "ON" for more than 10 seconds, without
trying to start the car.  This to reduce the chance of burning out the
primary of the coil (low impedance, therefore lots of idle current after the
first couple of time constants).  This warning applied whether or not a
ballast resistor was used in the coil's primary.

I plan to do a compression check on my Delta 88 in a few weeks and intend to
disconnect the 12V line to the primary of the coil, just to make sure I
don't poot in the buttermilk.

 


Spud     "Fart proudly."
'86 FXST   --Benjamin Franklin
'73 Delta 88
'79 LeBaron

------------------------------

From: spud@kudonet.com (Spud)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 02:28:52 -0300
Subject: Re: Heater core leak 

>On my '70 Olds 442 W-30, the shop mechanic said that the heater core had a
>pinhole leak just enough to steam up the windows (or something like that).
> Does anyone know how to take apart a heater core and/or install a new
>one?  Or is there an easier way?  My car DOES have A/C!
>Thanks!!!
>Brad
>'70 Olds 442 W-30

While it is possible to solder up a pinhole, unless you're good at it and
use the proper methods, it will inevitably fail.  I've even had shop
repaired heater cores fail.  I strongly recommend replacing it with new.
It'll save time, effort and won't cost much more in the final analysis than
repair on an old one.

My Delta 88 has a/c and this fact didn't affect the procedure at all.  What
affects it more is whether you have to remove the core from the interior of
the car or in the engine compartment.  I had a '65 Chevelle that I replaced
the heater core on and had to remove it from the engine compartment; a HUGE
pain in the rump roast.  My Delta 88 heater core replacement was a breeze by
comparison, since I was able to remove it from the intereior of the car.



Spud     "Fart proudly."
'86 FXST   --Benjamin Franklin
'73 Delta 88
'79 LeBaron

------------------------------

From: Samir Haque <allegro@loop.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 02:40:18 -0300
Subject: unsubscribe



------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 22:29:02 -0300
Subject: [none]



------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 21:10:14 -0300
Subject: [none]



------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 21:13:09 -0300
Subject: [none]



------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 21:13:53 -0300
Subject: [none]



------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 19:48:14 -0300
Subject: '70 Force-air cleaner 

     I was at a small car show tonight and met a guy who has an original 
     '70 Rallye 350.  Or at least it's almost original, except for the air 
     cleaner and the 455 (he still has the original 350 block and all 
     brackets just in case).  Anyways, it's got the factory ram-air hood, 
     but when he bought it it had an aftermarket air cleaner on it.  So, he 
     needs an air cleaner.  They have the top half listed at Supercars 
     Unlimited for $350, and unless anyone here can recommend a better 
     source or price, that's what he'll probably get.
     
     The problem is that that's only the top half.  He's fairly confident 
     that the bottom half was just a normal unit available on other 4bbl's. 
      Was it?  If so, does anyone know what application he might find one 
     of thse on, or how to identify the correct bottom half?  Being able to 
     buy the top half don't help much when you can't buy the bottom half.
     
     Tom L.

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 20:54:12 -0300
Subject: [none]



------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 20:57:02 -0300
Subject: [none]



------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 21:14:09 -0300
Subject: [none]



------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 20:58:18 -0300
Subject: [none]



------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 00:18:46 -0300
Subject: [none]



------------------------------

From: Nick DiGiovanni <ndigiova@direct.ca>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 02:06:47 -0300
Subject: Re: 4 to 7 blade fan replacement 

At 02:05 AM 8/15/96 -0300, you wrote:

>Nick, I you have that backwards, that is, if you want the fan to spin
>faster.  The drive wheel diameter should increase and/or the driven wheel
>diameter should decrease.  This way, the driven wheel spins an additional
>amount for every rotation of the drive wheel.
>
>
>Spud     "Fart proudly."
>'86 FXST   --Benjamin Franklin
>'73 Delta 88
>'79 LeBaron

You're right.  I typed before I thoughted :)
Nick DiGiovanni
Port Coquitlam, B.C.
1970 4-4-2 - "Snarls Softly and Carries a Big Kick"

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 20:21:03 -0300
Subject: Re: Car Alarm Advice.... 

     It depends upon how much you want to spend and if you want to install 
     it yourself, or if you trust someone else to do it.  I'm very happy 
     with my Crimestopper alarm.  It was relatively inexpensive ($100, plus 
     $30 more for the microwave radar sensor) and I think it's about the 
     best you can get without having to have a factory trained installer 
     put it in.  The higher end ones like Clifford, etc. must be put in by 
     an installer to validate the warranty, and you don't get any 
     installation instructions or wiring diagrams with the alarms.
     
     I had this same alarm on my '79 Cutlass for a year before moving it to 
     my H/O (been there for 8-9 months now).  Never had a problem, except a 
     dead shock sensor once which the dealer gladly replaced under 
     warranty.  I installed it without having to cut any factory wires, and 
     if you don't look under the dash at the alarm brain the only clue to 
     their being an alarm is the siren under the hood (next project is to 
     hide the siren, or at least the wiring so it can't be cut) and the LED 
     and toggle switch (on a small custom plate I made that screws into the 
     place below the radio, above the center console, using existing 
     screws).
     
     You will have to cut one wire for the starter kill, there isn't any 
     way around that.  The rest can be done with 3M line taps (cheezy I 
     know, but they work).  Smart man for getting an alarm now before 
     trouble happens!  Good luck!
     
     Tom L.


______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: Car Alarm Advice....
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    8/14/96 7:18 PM


Can someone recommend a good car alarm that wont mess up the original look 
of my 80 442? Something good, not one that uses alking or chirping as its 
main defense. I want starter disable, etc. I am spoiled with my 88 IROC 
having fuel injection I just yanked the fsues for the pump and injectors. My 
80 442 has no ECM. Thanks...
- ------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com)
1980 4-4-2 W-30....1 of 886 produced                                       
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25....H/OCA #0278A            
1988 Camaro IROC Z-28
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
     
     

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 08:35:57 -0300
Subject: Re: Need Toro vac. headlight door parts 

At 05:15 PM 8/14/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>Other than that and a non-functional vacuum trunk release, his Toro is in
>>perfect operating condition. He is putting it in the paper for $6900 thru
>>the end of this week, but is kinda hoping nobody calls; he really loves that
>>car (did I mention he also has good taste in cars...).
>
>Ok, what's wrong with this picture?  He's selling it, but he doesn't want it
>to sell???
>
>I don't get it.

He buys and sells cars for a living. If he got his asking price, he would
sell since he is buying another project car (white '65 Rambler convert; what
did I say about his taste in cars...? maybe I was wrong).

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 08:36:03 -0300
Subject: Re: brakes, misc. stuff 

At 03:10 PM 8/14/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>Ok, I understand that, but the light isn't on.  Bulb is OK.  I'll get back
>>to you after I replace the front rubber lines.  I've had 'em for two days
>>now, but it rains every day after work.  Makes it hard to work on the car
>>without a garage handy...
>
>Yeah, well, don't spend too much time on my theory. I can't see how new
>rubber lines are going to affect a solid pedal, but maybe you'll spot
>something while you're working down there. Basically if you've got a
>good power booster and the pedal won't go down, something is blocking the
>fluid travel, IMHO. Either lines are blocked or, say, both front calipers
>have seized, something loony like that...  :-)

Don't discount the rubber lines for this problem. My '69 Toro had one front
hose completely blocked; with what, I don't know, but *nothing* was flowing
through it. Good luck with the hoses.

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 08:36:05 -0300
Subject: Req: Gear recommendations for street driving 

Well, now I've gone and done it! I build up my 403, port the heads, put in a
.450/.472 cam, Performer Intake, and now have a real performance car on my
hands- idles rough, goes fast, makes lots of noise. Great, except that I've
got 2.41 rear gears! which means that I *start* getting into the power band
of this motor at 75mph, and my speedo's needle stops spinning well before
the motor wants to.

Theoretically, this should be lots of fun (and is at times), but this is a
daily driver, and cruising around town at a lopey idle (I really can't drive
the thing below 40mph in 3rd gear, which is where I do most of my driving)
gets old real quick.

So, I want to move up to a lower (higher numerically) rear gear, but don't
want to go too crazy with it. I was thinking 3.23 or 3.42 rear gears, and
kind of leaning toward the 3.42's. It has a TH400, so I have to keep sane
without the overdrive, since I do take long trips in the car.

So, what is everyone's experience with 3.42 rear gears? Is this what I
should go with, or should I move up to 3.73's? Or down to 3.23's? Opinions,
advice, etc. all appreciated.

Oh, and I want to use a posi carrier from a '76 Monte 10-bolt w/3.31 gears
or something like that. Does anyone have any reason to suspect that this
carrier would not fit in my '78 Electra's 10-bolt rear?

BTW, I was recommended a guy to set up this rear gear; he wants $150 to do
it, including the bearings. Is that better/comparable/worse than what others
have paid? Yeah, he is a professional mechanic, and campaigns a C/SA Cobra
Jet Mustang, so he's not a total yahoo.


- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 08:35:50 -0300
Subject: Re: Duals/Headers 

At 12:54 PM 8/14/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Just got  a 1983 '98 with a 307 and I would like to install 
>a dual exhaust setup.
>
>Does anybody make headers that will fit this car that can be
>installed without modifying the engine(filter, starter, etc.) or
>requiring that the engine be lifted?

Don't think so; if you find a set, though, I'd be interested in a set for my
Electra.

>Did OLDS make a dual setup that would fit?

No. They stuck with single exhausts across the board after catalytic
converters were introduced in '75.

>Is there a setup for the exhaust that will go on in the driveway-
>i.e., bolt-on to fit the duals/headers?

Most likely anything you do will have to be completely custom bent. In
addition, your tranny crossmember is a single-hump design, so either you
have to adapt an earlier crossmember, section your existing crossmember, or
run the pipe below the frame (*ouch*! on speedbumps). Your floorpan doesn't
have much space for mufflers on the driver's side, *and* there were never
any factory pipes/hangers for that side from the factory.

>Thanks,
>
>steve

Good Luck!

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 08:35:59 -0300
Subject: Re: Compression Check 

At 12:26 PM 8/14/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Quick, possibly dumb question follows:
>
>When you're doing a compression check, what wire should you pull to 
>ensure that the engine doesn't start? The hi-tension wire from the coil 
>to the distributor, or the 12v wire from the harness to the coil? Have 
>this compression gauge here that I never used before, and am thinking of 
>giving it a try, but don't want to injure myself...   :)

Not a dumb question. You are supposed to *ground* the coil's HT lead (the
one to the center of the distributor) to a good ground with a jumper wire.

Of course, you should remove all the spark plugs from the engine, and jam
the carb at WOT when doing a compression test, so there shouldn't be any
danger of starting the engine.

Oh yeah, do it when the engine is warm; can make about a 30psi difference in
readings sometimes.

>Will the results of this test indicate anything other than a overall
>indication of possible problems? That is, I would assume that if
>compression is down in one cylinder, you could have ring problems or valve
>problems or head gasket problems, but that you wouldn't be able to tell
>anything more specific than that. True or am I missing something? 

If adding oil to that cylinder improves the compression, it is likely rings
(the oil helps them seal better temporarily).

You can also track the compression over time in a spreadsheet. Graph it in
3-D (heck, even WP6.0 can do that) and you can see any changes in psi. That
is how I came to decide that my 403 was in need of a rebuild (#7's psi was
dropping fast!).

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 08:38:53 -0300
Subject: Ooops! Mail del. prob. 

Sorry about all the blank messages; my provider was apparently having a
problem for a couple hours last night. I think all my messages were sent
again; just ignore the ones without subject lines.

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: kissrulz@gnn.com (Craig Dobbins)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 05:00:24 -0300
Subject: Re: build sheet location help 

>Date:		Wed, 14 Aug 1996 23:04:15 -0300
>From:	"Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
>Sender:	oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>To:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>Subject:	build sheet location help
>
>Can anybody clue me in as to where the build sheet in a 1980 Cutlass would
>be? I looked behind the rear seat, under the rear seat and deadener, under
>the carpet on both rear floor pans and under the drivers seat carpet. Only
>side I did not check was under the carpet on the passenger side. Where did
>everyone with 80-87 Cutlass's find their build sheets? Thanks......
>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com)
>1980 4-4-2 W-30....1 of 886 produced                                       
>1975 Hurst/Olds W-25....H/OCA #0278A            
>1988 Camaro IROC Z-28
>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>
 Or for that matter, where is it on a '68 442 convertable?  Did I miss a 
document somewhere?

                                                        Craig Dobbins

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 18:37:20 -0300
Subject: Re: Hood Insulation Pad

LRoss922@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Does anyone know what kind of adhesive to use when installing a hood
> insulation pad? I have no idea.  Please help!
> Thank you.
> 
> Brad Ross  OCA# 026076
> 71 Delta Royale

There is no glue for that. Your not supposed to glue the insulation, it is 
held in place with mushroom 
clips. If you glue it it will first make a mess and second the outer layer 
will tear.
- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 09:38:02 -0300
Subject: Re: OCA Nat's

Paul,
I passed that dented fender several times and never saw anyone with the car. I 
personally liked the swap meet. Found several items I need for my frame off. 
Even bought a car I didn't need. 
I've looked for several years for a Cutlass flattop wagon and found one in the 
swap meet area. I looked many times and finally decided I couldn't buy and fix 
one to that condition for what he was asking. It was the white 72 that Eric 
Dammann brought with him. Sent it home with my son in the convoy to Texas. Ran 
excellant.	
I know there were some problems with Nats, but they were small ones. I think 
the 
club did an excellant job and this was among my favorites.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 09:40:25 -0300
Subject: Re: Paint codes

78 paint code is burgundy mist metallic. Good color.

------------------------------

From: LRoss922@aol.com
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 09:43:41 -0300
Subject: Re: 71 Delta Royale 

They were called Holiday Hardtops because when you put all of the windows
down
there were no door posts sticking up.

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 12:40:31 -0300
Subject: Re: Compression Check

Spud wrote:
> 
> if you have an ACCEL HEI SuperCoil: the instructions for the one I 
> installed in my Delta 88 warned not to have  the ignition "ON" for more 
> than 10 seconds, without trying to start the car.  This to reduce the 
> chance of burning out the primary of the coil 

???  Have to wonder about the design of this guy.  The primary of the 
coil is supposed to carry the low voltage ignition PULSE stepped up to 
the high voltage pulse that is applied to the plugs through the rotor and 
cap.  If this coil fries after 10 seconds...

> low impedance, therefore lots of idle current after the first couple of 
> time constants

Maybe so still not sure I'd want a coil that intolerant.  Hell, if you 
left your car idling and it stalled, do you have to run like a maniac 
back to the car within 10 seconds before the coil smokes?  

BTW, for those that care, a time constant is a measurement of how long it 
takes a coil (inductor) or condensor (capacitor) to charge up.  They are 
considered charged in 5 time constants.

Why not remove the battery, coil, distributor, and ignition wires then 
put them in a safe deposit box?   ;)

> just to make sure I don't poot in the buttermilk.

Oh, I HATE that!

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 12:44:43 -0300
Subject: Re: Car Alarm Advice....

Jason P. Labay wrote:
> 
> Can someone recommend a good car alarm that wont mess up the original 
> look of my 80 442? 

Sorry, I can't be much help on the latest model numbers (our systems are 
our own designs) but it won't be difficult to find an alarm that won't 
effect the appearance of the car.  

I think Charlie B said he's been installing alarms lately.  He prolly has 
more current info.

Charlie?

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 18:55:35 -0300
Subject: Re: W30 Bars

I'm a little confused about these bars. Do these bars live just above the 
differential on either side and help 
dampen the up and down motion? 
- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: Todd Morris <tmorris@bt1dc18e.bet.ibm.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 11:32:56 -0300
Subject: Re: brakes, misc. stuff 

 
 
Yes, I'd agree, don't discount the rubber brake lines. I had a 70 Cutlass a 
couple  
years ago with a single front drum brake that wouldn't release at the same 
rate as the 
other, causing pulling to one side.  Turns out the rubber brake hose had 
deteriorated  
from the inside, causing partial blockage and poor flow of the brake fluid.  
Once the  
hoses were replaced I was amazed at how much more crisp and firm the brakes 
felt, not  
to mention the pulling and seizing went away. 
 
Todd Morris 
71 442 
 
 
> 
>Yeah, well, don't spend too much time on my theory. I can't see how new 
>rubber lines are going to affect a solid pedal, but maybe you'll spot 
>something while you're working down there. Basically if you've got a 
>good power booster and the pedal won't go down, something is blocking the 
>fluid travel, IMHO. Either lines are blocked or, say, both front calipers 
>have seized, something loony like that...  :-) 
   
>Don't discount the rubber lines for this problem. My '69 Toro had one front 
>hose completely blocked; with what, I don't know, but *nothing* was flowing 
>through it. Good luck with the hoses. 
   

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 11:28:32 -0300
Subject: Re: 71 Delta Royale

On Wed, 14 Aug 1996 LRoss922@aol.com wrote:

> Does anyone out there own a 1971 Delta Royale?
> Mine is the hardtop. 
> I was just wondering if there were any out there, because I never see any, or
> hear about them.  I know that they are rare.

It seems that the only examples of this era of the big Oldsmobiles that 
were kept nice were convertibles.  Every time I see anything other than a 
convertible, it's someone's daily driver, and it's usually near 
basket-case in condition.  

It's funny though in that at the Oldsmobile shows I've been to, you DO 
see a number of '71-'76 Ninety-Eight's in darn nice shape.  Perhaps 
because these were more often bought by an older couple who would tend to 
treat the car gently, whereas an 88 was more likely bought by a family 
man who used the hell out of it.

I was at a show a couple of years ago where this guy brought, on a 
trailer, a 
'76 Ninety-Eight with about 80 miles on the odometer.  He says he bought 
it towards the end of the model year, when he knew that it would be the 
last of the big Olds's (remember the big GM downsizing for 1977), and his 
intention was to buy it, park it, and save it.  He keeps in a heated 
garage with air filters and so forth, and the car was, of course, gorgeous.



Dan Gulino

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 11:31:21 -0300
Subject: Re: Hood Insulation Pad

On Wed, 14 Aug 1996 LRoss922@aol.com wrote:

> Does anyone know what kind of adhesive to use when installing a hood
> insulation pad? I have no idea.  Please help!
> Thank you.
> 


Are you sure that it's held on by adhesive?  I'm not sure about 1971, buy 
most years used plastic clips that pressed through the pad into little 
holes in the underside of the hood to hold the pad on.  Fusick's sells 
these clips for about a buck each, and they have a picture of them in 
their catalog.



Dan Gulino

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 11:33:28 -0300
Subject: Re: build sheet location help

On Wed, 14 Aug 1996, Jason P. Labay wrote:

> Can anybody clue me in as to where the build sheet in a 1980 Cutlass would
> be? I looked behind the rear seat, under the rear seat and deadener, under
> the carpet on both rear floor pans and under the drivers seat carpet. Only
> side I did not check was under the carpet on the passenger side. Where did
> everyone with 80-87 Cutlass's find their build sheets? Thanks......


I've heard that they are sometimes taped to the top of the gas tank.  
Good luck getting it from there without dropping the tank.  :)



Dan Gulino

------------------------------

From: Todd Morris <tmorris@bt1dc18e.bet.ibm.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 12:44:56 -0300
Subject: Re: Req: Gear recommendations for street driving 

Forwarding note from: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU> 
	Thu, 15 Aug 1996 08:36:05 -0300 
   
 
Snip - discussion of whether Bob should do 3.23 or 3.42 gears. 
 
 
Bob, I've got 3.42 gears, on a 455 4 sp 442, Performer intake, no head port, 
15" tires, 
.476 lift cam, and I might slightly favor 3.23 gears.  At 70 mph I'm turning 
around  
2800 RPM, which feels a little high to me.  Since I haven't done any street 
racing I don't  
know if the 3.42s are buying me any extra acceleration to speak of.  Whatever, 
around 
town the 3.42 feels quite comfortable and appears to be quick enough.  Last 
night coming 
home from our Olds club meeting I caught rubber hitting 3rd which was fun.  
Net is I'm not 
sure how much difference there is between 3.23 and 3.42 except a few hundred 
RPM on the  
freeway.... 
 
 
Todd Morris 
71 442 

------------------------------

From: "AUVAX7::RILES" <RILES%AUVAX7.decnet@auscam.amd.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 11:57:00 -0300
Subject: Re: Hood Insulation Pad

On Wed, 14 Aug 1996 LRoss922@aol.com wrote:

> Does anyone know what kind of adhesive to use when installing a hood
> insulation pad? I have no idea.  Please help!
> Thank you.
> 


>Are you sure that it's held on by adhesive?  I'm not sure about 1971, buy 
>most years used plastic clips that pressed through the pad into little 
>holes in the underside of the hood to hold the pad on.  Fusick's sells 
>these clips for about a buck each, and they have a picture of them in 
>their catalog.

You can get the clips from GM and they are much better than the ones I got 
with my 
pad from Paddock.

- -Robert

Dan Gulino

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 07:01:25 -0300
Subject: Re: Ooops! Mail del. prob.

Robert J. Barry wrote:
>=20
> Sorry about all the blank messages; my provider was apparently having a
> problem for a couple hours last night. I think all my messages were sen=
t
> again; just ignore the ones without subject lines.
>=20
> -----------
> - Bob Barry
> Bob:

I was enjoying all of the good information, had made several hard=20
copies, & committed the posts to my "Most Important" save files.  Now=20
you tell me to ignore them.  No way!  There's some things that I won't=20
do even for a friend.=20

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

- --=20
MZ=90

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 12:15:40 -0300
Subject: Re: Hood Insulation Pad

Fernando,
I just took the original off the hood of my 70 and it was glued on. I've put 
blankets on before with the square clips and it hung down where the clips 
weren't.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: Doug <mcclan@wsdot.wa.gov>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 12:17:16 -0300
Subject: RE: '70 heater core 

I know how to do that.  You just remove everything 
in front of the fire wall (hood, fenders, engine 
etc.) and then just take off the heater core 
shroud.  The heater core will be right there.  Just 
pop it out.  Should only take about year.  Good 
luck.

Seriously, I just did that job on a '67 CS.  It 
should be a very similar job.  Write me back at:  
mcclan@wsdot.wa.gov if you want some help.

Doug
- ----------
>>>>>>>>On my '70 Olds 442 W-30, the shop mechanic said that the heater core 
had a
pinhole leak just enough to steam up the windows 
(or something like that).
 Does anyone know how to take apart a heater core 
and/or install a new
one?  Or is there an easier way?  My car DOES have 
A/C!
Thanks!!!
Brad
'70 Olds 442 W-30

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 12:17:17 -0300
Subject: Re: W30 Bars

Fernando,
The bars fit on the upper and lower control arms. Get up in there and you'll 
see 
where they fit.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: fred@sol1.lrsm.upenn.edu (Fred Hellmig)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 12:27:09 -0300
Subject: Re: '70 heater core

The core comes out from inside the car. I did one a long time ago on my 
70 cutlass.
Fred

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred Hellmig (KA3NKK)
WORK:                           HOME:
University of Pennsylvania
Building Administrator                822 Anderson Ave.
L.R.S.M. Bld. Room 100                Drexel Hill Pa. 19026
3231 Walnut Street                    610 449-4080
Phila. Pa. 19104
215-898-7793     FAX # 215-898-8296
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: eda@dl.tc.faa.gov
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 12:27:31 -0300
Subject: (fwd) Lock-up  Torque Converter

The following article is from rec.autos.tech, I figured one of
you guys could help this fellow, even if he can't spell "Cutlass" :)
Please respond to him at the address below and cc to the list if
you want, *not* to me.

Begin forwarded post:
- ---------------------
>Can anyone tell me if you can adopt a TH350 transmission and lock-up 
>converter with a 2 wire connection to replace a TH200 tran. with a 3 
>wire connection. It is on a 86 rear wheel drive Cutless. If not, can you 
>use a standard TH350 and converter and bypass the computer connection? I 
>do not want to use the TH200.
>Thanks for any help.
>Sig
>sjg@acsu.buffalo.edu

End forwarded post:
- -------------------

------------------------------

From: fred@sol1.lrsm.upenn.edu (Fred Hellmig)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 12:31:17 -0300
Subject: Re: '70 heater core

I have the shop manuals and could refer to them if needed also I could 
copy some of it for you
Fred

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred Hellmig (KA3NKK)
WORK:                           HOME:
University of Pennsylvania
Building Administrator                822 Anderson Ave.
L.R.S.M. Bld. Room 100                Drexel Hill Pa. 19026
3231 Walnut Street                    610 449-4080
Phila. Pa. 19104
215-898-7793     FAX # 215-898-8296
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 05:35:03 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Hood Insulation Pad 

     Heck, they have a couple of bins full of these clips down at the local 
     Eagle Hardware.  Along with all sorts of other plastic clips used to 
     hold door panels, etc. on.  They were something like 25 cents each, so 
     I stocked up and bought a few of each type to just have around.
     
     Tom.


______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Hood Insulation Pad
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    8/15/96 8:19 AM

>holes in the underside of the hood to hold the pad on.  Fusick's sells 
>these clips for about a buck each, and they have a picture of them in 
>their catalog.
     
You can get the clips from GM and they are much better than the ones I got 
with 
m y 
pad from Paddock.
     
- -Robert
     
Dan Gulino
     
     
     
     

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 11:59:39 -0300
Subject: RE: '70 heater core  

>I know how to do that.  You just remove everything 
>in front of the fire wall (hood, fenders, engine 
>etc.) and then just take off the heater core 
>shroud.  The heater core will be right there.  Just 
>pop it out.  Should only take about [a] year.  Good 
>luck.

If you have a little light attached to the underside
of the hood, it would also be a good time to change
the bulb, while you have the hood off.

Seriously, this is a real pain-in-the-butt to do, but can
be done; on that A-body it's a combination of releasing
fasteners around the edge of the HVAC evaporator housing
under the hood (going in under the right fender), then 
extracting the heater core from the inside, under the dash.
Great fun. After you get as far as extracting the old one, 
you will want to install only a brand new one in its place.
Believe me.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 13:15:36 -0300
Subject: Re: Hood Insulation Pad -Reply 

I just want to tell the original poster that he's not completely crazy...  My
'72 Cutlass hood has been missing the original insulation pad since about
1973.  On the hood there are several squiggles of a hard, black, rubbery
tar-like substance with tufts of hood insulation hanging from it.  I believe
that the hood insulation was glued in on my car, also... along with the
clips (which I also believe are metal on my car).  This was just in the
areas between the clips, perhaps to keep the insulation from sagging in
those areas.  ?

- -Blaine
'72 Cutlass Supreme

>>> Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu> 08/15/96 08:31am >>>

>On Wed, 14 Aug 1996 LRoss922@aol.com wrote:
>
>> Does anyone know what kind of adhesive to use when installing a
>>hood insulation pad? I have no idea.  Please help!

>Are you sure that it's held on by adhesive?  I'm not sure about 1971,
>buy  most years used plastic clips that pressed through the pad into
>little  holes in the underside of the hood to hold the pad on.  Fusick's 

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 13:29:06 -0300
Subject: 9/96 issue of Hot Rod mag 

Anyone got the September '96 issue of Hot Rod Magazine?  That issue
itself is fairly worthless as far as content goes.  It's devoted mostly to
the '96 Power Tour.  There's a nice '6? 442 convertible on page 28,
though.  Owner is Mark Kramer from Detroit, MI.  Anyone know him? 
Anyway, the really cool thing about that issue that I just noticed is that
my little home town is on the front cover!  They were driving through St.
George, UT when they took the picture, northbound on I-15 out of Las
Vegas.  Sorry.  Just thought it was cool... =-)

- -Blaine
'72 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 13:17:08 -0300
Subject: unsuscribe oldsmobile 



------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 13:34:09 -0300
Subject: Re: Hood Insulation Pad -Reply 

In a message dated 96-08-15 12:14:27 EDT, BLAINES@strata3d.com (Blaine
Sanders 5483) writes:

> I believe
>that the hood insulation was glued in on my car, also... along with the
>clips (which I also believe are metal on my car).  This was just in the
>areas between the clips, perhaps to keep the insulation from sagging in
>those areas.  ?

Blaine,

You are correct! I just put a new pad on my 66 Toro last year. I got the OEM
clips from Fusick (square deals) and ALSO used the Permatex  "Black Super
Weatherstrip Adhesive"  OEM approved  Part Number 82  Item # 81850. The stuff
works GREAT!!  Its sorta like a really sticky contact cement...but better! It
should never come off if applied correctly!

I used it in areas where the pad sagged between the clips!

Sparky

------------------------------

From: bryce_smith@442.com (Bryceman)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 13:33:24 -0300
Subject: Re: Hood Insulation Pad -Reply 

>I just want to tell the original poster that he's not completely crazy...  My
>'72 Cutlass hood has been missing the original insulation pad since about
>1973.  On the hood there are several squiggles of a hard, black, rubbery
>tar-like substance with tufts of hood insulation hanging from it.  I believe
>that the hood insulation was glued in on my car, also... along with the
>clips (which I also believe are metal on my car).  This was just in the
>areas between the clips, perhaps to keep the insulation from sagging in
>those areas.  ?

Yes, that is exactly what I have as well. I am getting ready to replace the
pad on my 88. In the areas between the clips I thought I would just use 3M
general purpose adhesive from my caulking gun if nobody has a better
alternative.

          Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Oldsmobiles
'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender  '65 442   '70 Cutlass Convertible
           Email: bryceman@442.com  URL: www.442.com

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 13:33:54 -0300
Subject: HEIs, Hardened Seats, Etc. 

Hi guys and gals:

Recovering from the OCA Nats in Atlanta - great show.  Lost a day or so of
the digests but the list seems as active as ever.

I have a couple of pieces of advice:

HEIs: great systems, can't be beat for the price.  In darn near every case
the mechanical and vacuum advance systems must be modified.  Before removing
the points distributor make a chart of the amount of advance versus rpm and
start by using in the weight/spring combination in the HEI that most closely
follows the stock curve.  Using a vacumm pump, determine the amount of vacuum
advance.  Using an adjustable unit on the HEI set this the same as well.
 Remember that the HEIs were used in cars with lots of emission controls
which regulate the timing.  You can modify the mechanical and vacuum settings
using your new adjustable HEI.

Exhaust valve seats are not "burned" by the lack of lead, the lead acts as a
lubricant between the valve and seat.  No lead = no lube = faster wear. But
AMOCO has sold lead free fuel for at least 35 years.  If unleaded fuel
destroys valve seats _quickly_ this would have shown up as a problem many
years ago on customers that used AMOCO exclusively. The fact is it takes a
long time for unleaded fuel to damage an engines exhaust seats.  A nice round
number which has been stated elsewhere is 50,000 miles.  Could be longer,
could be less.  The harder an engine is pushed the quicker the wear.  An RV
tow vehicle for instance.

In Olds heads without hardened seats, particularly the early castings, Olds
used a high nickel content in the iron.  This reduces wear as well.

Olds built _tough_ motors.  I agree completely with the opinion that spending
the money to fix heads that ain't otherwise broke is unnecessary.

Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL
U.S. FDA Regulatory Affairs

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 14:02:18 -0300
Subject: Shop Manuals 

I hear a lot of talk about shop manuals.  What exactly are these?  I've
looked in all my catalogs, and they are really expensive ($60 - 80). 
What's in them that makes them worth $60 - $80?  I'm assuming they
cover a lot more than Chiltons =-).  But for $60, it should cover
*everything*.  If it does, I'll splurge and get one...

- -Blaine
'72 Cutlass Supreme

P.S. - Where's the best place to get one for '72 Cutlass?  Does Fusicks
have 'em?  I still haven't got my stinkin' catalog from them!

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #267
********************************
 
