
oldsmobile-digest          Saturday, 15 June 1996       Volume 01 : Number 204


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joanne Beausoleil <jbeausol@ftp.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 14:26:38 -0300
Subject: RE: Synthetic oil eating main bearings !?

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Seven sets of tires in 111,000 miles? I take it most of the rubber is =
left on the road during acceleration? I am on my 3rd set in 117,000 =
miles!

- ----------
From: 	Daniel R Burk[SMTP:ws6transam@voyager.net]
Sent: 	Friday, June 14, 1996 1:01 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Re: Synthetic oil eating main bearings !?

>I heard a nasty rumor that synthetic oils contain a material that=20
>corrodes bearing metal..any truth to this?
>
None whatsoever.  Twelve years of abuse and my engine still runs like =
new. I
looked specifically at the crank bearings at 65,000 miles, and saw no =
wear
at all except for one polish mark on the rear main bearing.  There is no
varnish anywhere except for the inside of the valve covers either.  I =
did,
however, have to replace the valve stem seals and the rear main seal in
1992.  I use a three month/six thousand mile oil change schedule and use =
AC
duragard filters at each change. =20

111,000 miles and seven sets of tires later,
        --- Dan.
        [ '84 Trans Am w/Mobil 1 synthetic oil - ]
                21 MPG highway; Oil consumption: 1 quart per 9,000 miles
average.
                Best of 15.46 E/T @ 89.9 MPH.
                      =20





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From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 16:44:14 -0300
Subject: Synthetic Oil; was olds-digest V1 #198 

Caution: This is a long post!

This topic is sure to liven up the mail list.:)  I don't mean to knock synthetic
or petroleum oil.  There are some items I want to add to the discussion, and 
bring up some things to consider before switching.

There are some applicable FAQs at www.4x44u.com/pub/k2/autozine/autozine.htm 
under "FAQ Pages", "Trivial Auto Info".

I'm a user of synthetic oil, specifically Amsoil and Valvoline Dura-Blend.  
I believe 100% synthetics offer the best protection for engines, diffs, trans, 
etc.  Much better protection than petroleum products.

I'm currently using Amsoil 10w-30 in my 2.8L '88 Cutlass.  I switched over 
after 45,000 miles, and 3,000 mile oil changes, on petroleum.  I still 
change it at 3,000 miles, although it is claimed I could go higher.  I want the 
longevity for the same reason I do tune ups, and other maintenence a few 
thousand miles before it is needed.

I have seen 2-3 MPG increase (based on a record of my gasoline purchases) since 
switching to synthetic.

The most important reason for changing is to get rid of the blowby and 
combustion aftermath that is sitting in the crankcase.  Raw gas, carbon, 
road side dirt, water, by-products of heat.  These will be present if 
running petroleum or synthetic.  There might be more if running petroleum.

Many synthetics are remanufactured petroleums.  The molecules are just
reorganized.  Clean laboratory?  A chemist or lab technition did not personally 
mix the 12 quarts of Amsoil I bought last year.  And the Pennzoil I poured into 
my Delta last month wasn't processed by mixing it on a dirty warehouse floor.  
The same cleanliness is used in both cases, just the processes are different.

Mineral oil or straight refined petroleum was the first motor oil.  It was used 
for quite a long time ('40s, '50s?) before better protection was available 
because of additives.  The additive package is one of the main reasons 
'70-present engines are lasting 200K+ miles without any overhaul.  100K miles 
was a huge feat before the '70s.  Additives don't necessarily *thin* the oil.  
Without them, petroleum wouldn't do the job it does today.

Comparing synthetic to petroleum is more like a F-14 to an F-18A.  The first can
perform much better, but is much more expensive.

A BIG CAUTION HERE:
Be cautious if deciding to convert to any synthetic.  If there are any oil seal 
leaks now, don't (although valve covers pretty much always leak).  Generally, if
the engines has over 50K miles, don't.  If the engine has seen extended drain 
intervals (4000+), don't.  Every vehicle is a different case, of course.  
Synthetic is no cure for a high mileage, or badly running or treated engine.

Pull a valve cover.  Check the rockers, the inside of the cover.  Lots of 
deposits?   Any leaks?  Reconsider.  Synthetic oil has super detergency.  The 
rockers and heads on my Cutlass were being stained brown by petroleum oil.  
6,000 miles later on synthetic, they were shiny.  Any crud in the oil system 
will get loosened.  Maybe not in .001 size bits.  Any buildup that is part of 
the engine and now needed, could also get loosened.  It's probably better to 
just change the oil more often.

If the engine was just rebuilt or new, has been kept very clean with religious 
oil changes, has fresh seals, has less than 50,000 miles on it, doesn't burn
any oil, go for it.  Amsoil is probably the best, along with Red Line, in the 
field of synthetics.  Last I checked it was $5.00 a quart - ouch.  My Cutlass 
doesn't get out very much, so I write it off as the same price as a premium oil 
change at any local "10w-30 or ketchup, sir" changes places.

I think I just spent a nickel instead of the standard .02!

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    "Oldsmobile - powerful roadsters with big V8s"
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu

- --------------------
<snip>
  An interesting tidbit of information I will leave you with as long as you
bring up the question of what is in an oil or not, and this is not commonly
known publicly, but when you crack open your favorite bottle of petroleum
oil, it *already has* contaminats in it that you are pouring into your
expensive engine.  Yes that's right.  Petroleum oils are refined from crude
oil from the ground and all have all manner of naturally occurring
contaminants in the crude oil.  Most of these contaminants are refined out,
but not all.  Your "clean, fresh" unopened bottle of petroleum oil,
(regardless of brand), has a very nasty list of contaminants already present
in it; like parafin, (wax), napthenes and benzynes, asphalt and a host of
other undesirables.  When these contaminats found in a petroleum oil are
exposed to combustion blowby gases, they create other nasty acids and
compounds that don't do a whole lot of good for your expensive engine.  This
is one of the main reasons that petroleum oils need to be changed so often.

    Whereas with a synthetic oil, (a 100% synthetic oil anyway), again,
regardless of brand, synthetics are manufactured molecule by molecule in a
*clean laboratory*.  This means that a synthetic oil is analyticallly clean
and *devoid* of all the naturally occurring contaminants that are found in a
petroleum oil.
<snip>
  Also, when a petroleum oil is formulated, the chemist needs to chemically
address the problems and shortcomings of the naturally occurring contaminants
that are found in a petroleum oil.  The chemist does this with the selection
of the additive package that is put in with the oil.  The additive package,
in and by itself, does not provide lubrication.  The more additives that are
needed, the less lubrication there is.  So with a synthetic oil, the chemist
does not have to include as many chemicals in the oils additive package and
this results in more lubrication available from a synthetic oil, and all the
benefits that are associated with more lubrication, i.e. lower engine
operating temperatures from reduced friction, less engine wear, more power,
better fuel economy, etc.
<snip>
    The difference between a synthetic oil and a petroleum oil is like night
and day.  It is like comparing a high-tech F-14 Tomcat to a WWI Sopworth
Camel.  Yes, they both fly, but the similarity ends there.

   Synthetic oils are the future and there will come a time not far down the
road that all new cars will be equipped with synthetic oils right from the
factory.  But fortuneatley for us Oldsmobile nuts, <g>, you don't have to
wait for the future because synthetic oils are here now.  Do your favorite
Olds a favor and try a synthetic oil out.  Your Olds will love 'ya for it!
:-)

------------------------------

From: J.Easton@zds.com (Jeff Easton)
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 14:40:58 -0300
Subject: Re: 403 windows webs

     I got another look at the friends caprice.  The full casting number is 
     54990-4A.  I couldnt get a good look at the stamped VIN as it was 
     pretty corroded and the air conditioner bracket is kinda in the way.
     
     The car is now on its way back to Michigan for repairs.  I told him 
     that if the pan is pulled to fix the motor, take pictures of the 
     bottom end.
     
     -Jeff Easton
     
     1970 442 4-Speed

------------------------------

From: eda@dl.tc.faa.gov
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 18:25:27 -0300
Subject: Re: Synthetic Oils 

> wait for the future because synthetic oils are here now.  Do your favorite
> Olds a favor and try a synthetic oil out.  Your Olds will love 'ya for it!

Umm, okay, I'll bite; what if your favorite Olds has, say, over 50,000
miles on it with regular (petroleum-based) oils?  I know that at least 
Mobil-1 specifically reccommends *against* switching.

And, again, what is a '77 SKO Cutlass?

Ed Atlee			'77 Cutlass Supreme
eda@dl.tc.faa.gov		'84 Hurst/Olds
	R O C K E T	P O W E R E D ! !

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 17:28:26 -0300
Subject: Re: Synthetic Oils 

>And, again, what is a '77 SKO Cutlass?

Given the lack of an answer, I'll offer a wild guess: It's something
like a Cutlass GMO. Anybody remember those?

Heeheehee... :-) I think I'll wait and post the answer in a little while
if no one else knows. This will give me an idea about whether it was a 
regional model or a nationwide one. (Yes, this is genuine...)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 21:59:37 -0300
Subject: Le Mans

Folks,

Just wanted to remind everybody that Jim Pace will be co-driving the 
OLDSMOBILE powered Danka car.  Jim's team has already won the 24 hours of 
Daytona and the 12 hours of Sebring.  A win will make them the first 
tean to win racing's Triple Crown.  A win will also make Olds the first  
American manufacturer to win Le Mans in nearly 30 years. (Who was last? 
Ford?  Cunningham?)  

Jim lives in Lake Placid and is a diving instructor at Sebring.  Danke is 
based in St. Petersburg.

Best of luck and have a safe race, Jim.  We're pullin' for ya!


The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 19:12:15 -0300
Subject: Help! Toro tranny trouble- starts in second gear 

I finally got enough hoses from Kanter's (left front is *still* backordered)
to get my Toro's brakes together. Once I bleed them, I get a chance to check
out my newly-thoroughly-flushed tranny on that beastie (hint: return line
from tranny cooler is *not* a suction line, and will not suck the fluid out
of a bucket filled with ATF; you have to add it through the dipstick tube).
So I start the Toro, get it to idle, check the brakes (still spongy, need to
be bled again after that hose comes in), and put it in reverse gear to back
down the driveway.

Pretty snappy in reverse! Get it out into the street, floor that rocket, and
sloooowly ooze away from a stop. huh. I know the Toro is heavy, but the
acceleration is pretty disappointing. I know the brakes are not dragging,
though, since they are *completely* new and freshly adjusted. I figure I've
got something binding in the tranny, since it isn't slipping, but there is a
marked difference between my "snappy" Reverse gear and my sluggish Drive
gear. 

I mean I know that the ratios for reverse are lower than the drive range
(only way back in high-school a friend could spin the tires on his mom's car
was to go in reverse up a hill, if he put the space-saver on the back!), but
I've never noticed such a difference as in my Toro. I thought, perhaps, that
the forward ratios were closer together in a Toro tranny, since it felt
almost like the engine was lugging in Drive...

Ah-ha! Put it in Low, floor it, and instant wheelspin! So *that's* what 375
hp feels like through the front wheels! Nice.

But, now I've got the question for you all; why is this thing starting out in
second gear? There is no slippage between gears and the shifts are right on
time, so I'm assuming the clutches are fine and that I've got a valve-body
problem. Has anyone experienced this before, though? And corrected the
problem? I'd like to go right for the valve or modulator at the root of this
problem, rather than tear the whole thing apart unnecessarily.

Once I get this solved, I can hunt down the electrical problems (no turning
lights on right-side, or in back; and how do you change the rear bulbs? No
screws on taillight lens, and no rear access?) Then I can register the car,
and begin the great "Comfortron Safari", hunting down the solution to those
problems...

- -Bob, the perpetually-broken '69 Toro person.

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 20:25:11 -0300
Subject: Re: Le Mans 

A win will also make Olds the first  American manufacturer to win Le Mans in 
nearly 30 years. (Who was last? Ford?  Cunningham?)  
          
          Wasn't it a Ford GT-40 in 1969 (privately owned, as I think 
          the factory pulled out in 67-ish)?  In fact didn't Ford have 
          a string of wins from 66 to 69?
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 20:37:54 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: probly 

          
> ok, this porbably wont be too popular with the "purists"out there, but i 
> must ask it...i have recently come into ownership of a 69 El Camino...is
> there a way to put a Cutlass front end on, as this was the same platform as 
> the Chevelle?  dont worry it will probably get the 442 treatment and have
> Full olds markings on it...
>                          Zack
          I've been researching this for some time, with the intent of 
          building a 68 "Olds Camino".  The front sheetmetal should 
          bolt on, as the frame and cowl attach points are the same 
          for a Chevelle.  Similarly, the interior should be a 
          bolt-in, with the exception that you will need to replace 
          the metal dash understructure with one from a Cutlass.  
          
          The big problem, of course, is the doors and rear quarters, 
          which are El Camino unique.  The Chevelle side profile is 
          different from that of the Cutlass, so just bolting on the 
          front fenders will leave a big gap at the front doors.  It 
          appears that the door inner sheet metal is the same on all 
          A-body cars, so one could concievably adapt the door skins 
          from a 4 door Cutlass Cruiser.  Rear quarters are the worst.  
          One would need to do some serious cutting and pasting with a 
          MIG welder and a set of Cutlass wagon rear doors and quarters 
          to get it to look good.  The tail gate should bolt in (after 
          first removing the glass).
          
          (Note that the El Camino is based on the A-body wagon.  There 
          is a bolted-on panel in the bed right behind the cab which 
          covers the second seat footwell in the wagon floor pan.  A 
          popular El Camino mod is to equip this panel with a piano 
          hinge and a lock to create a storage compartment.)
          
          Once all the sheet metal work is done, installation of a 455 
          should be easy with the proper frame mounts.  Top it off with 
          a W-27 rear end (hey, this is already a money-is-no-object 
          project) and W-30 induction and you've got a real headturner 
          at the next OCA Nats.
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 19:54:48 -0300
Subject: Re: Hello...? Anybody in? 

In a message dated 96-06-13 18:03:40 EDT, you write:

>Relax, no flame there

None taken!  I thought it was sort of funny!

Sparky

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 19:54:49 -0300
Subject: Re: Hello...? Anybody in? 

In a message dated 96-06-13 18:03:40 EDT, you write:

>lighting systems which carefully
>avoid the hazard of blinding oncoming motorists through the ingenious
>concept of not generating any visible light from components normally 
>thought to have been designed to do so.

LOL!

Greg

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 18:52:36 -0300
Subject: What the heck was that? 

Yesterday evening I'm driving home and pull up to a red light behind
an '84 Toronado. Pretty crappy looking, with wide tires (you know,
the wide offsets that stick out of the wheel wells), what looked like
a home-made vinyl top, windows tinted almost black, etc.

But here's the kicker: the rear suspension was sticking out well below
under the car and looked an awful lot like a _front_ suspension, with
A-arms visible, etc. Actually it looked like the hardware that you see
peeking out from under the front of a Chevyvan. So it seemed to have,
um, very independent rear suspension. It wasn't four-wheel-drive or
anything like that.

Any theories as to what that was for (other than simply a means of
holding the back end up off the ground)? Or was that all it was: a
hack job put together from spare parts? I didn't think so at the time
since it was pretty clean and even had a vanity plate on it, although
the general workmanship was crap...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: SG Hartfelder <shartfel@planet.eon.net>
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 20:57:07 -0300
Subject: Help again.

Hi Guys!  Youve been a great help diagnosing other problems Ive had.
So, Im hoping you can help me with this one.

Its a starting problem.  Sometimes it starts.  Sometimes it doesnt.

Ive measured the voltage of the battery before starting and its 12.12
volts.  Once it finally does start, the battery measures 13.68 volts.
Does this mean the alternator is good?

When it doesnt start, all I get is a clicking sound?  However, if I turn
on the headlights they are quite bright.  Does this mean the solenoid is
good?

Its weird, the car can sit for a week and start, no problem.  But after
driving around for an hour I can turn it off and immediately afterward
attempt to startit again and..... it wont start.  The car does turn over
for a few seconds but not enough for it to catch and actually start.
Then, it's had it.

To get it to start, I have to attach a trickle battery charger to it for
10-15 minutes then it usually starts.

This one is driving me crazy.  The car HAS to be dependable before I
trust it driving anywhere.  The weather is great here and I'd really like
to get out, drive around and be able to stop and feel confident I'll be
able to get going again.

HELP!!!!  Thanks for your advice.
 
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
S.G. Hartfelder  Owner: '38 Oldsmobile Street Rod
18619-68 Ave      http://www.cjnetworks.com/olds/hartfelder.html
Edmonton,  AB
CANADA

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 18:59:59 -0300
Subject: Re: Synthetic Oils 

>>And, again, what is a '77 SKO Cutlass?
>
>Given the lack of an answer, I'll offer a wild guess: It's something
>like a Cutlass GMO. Anybody remember those?

Okay, back in the mid-'70's Oldsmobile's big ad campaign was all about
how you're supposed to "See Your Gallant Men of Olds" for the best deals
on fine cars, blah, blah, blah. So for a while there in, I think, several
years around 1974-1976, maybe a couple months each year or so, they'd 
trot out these "GMO" editions of the Cutlass (GMO = Gallant Men of Olds),
with what I remember were chrome Cutlass nameplates on the front fenders 
and GMO decals below them. Evidently a sticker package that might have 
been designed to unload some of the plainer Cutlasses, but it was very
successful. Don't remember them doing it on any other models, however. 
I still see one every now and then around Chicago.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Bob0Barry@aol.com
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 21:04:22 -0300
Subject: Re: '72 350 Engine noise 

In a message dated 96-06-14 12:41:42 EDT, you write:

> I'd say you not only damaged the balancer but the crank along with it. This
>  engine will most likely not live long the way it is.  
>  
>  >I recently purchased a '72 with about 130k miles on it.  The
>  >oil pickup screen was clogged, so I replaced the pump and
>  >screen I had ready just in case.  In the process, I damaged the
>  >harmonic balancer, which has also been replaced.  I have
[snip]
>  >The engine seems rather unbalanced.  It shakes constantly.

Uh, yeah, what did you *do* to damage the harmonic balancer? Dropping the
engine on its front is one way, trying to remove the balancer with a hammer
is another (puller is $17 from Sears; lots cheaper than a new balancer...)

Either way, I'd be afraid that the previously smooth-running crank is
damaged, or that your new balancer isn't quite balanced. Either way, this is
*not* something you can live with (well, you can; your engine can't).

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 21:04:12 -0300
Subject: Re: What the heck was that? 

In a message dated 96-06-14 19:04:45 EDT, you write:

>Any theories as to what that was for (other than simply a means of
>holding the back end up off the ground)? Or was that all it was: a
>hack job put together from spare parts? I didn't think so at the time
>since it was pretty clean and even had a vanity plate on it, although
>the general workmanship was crap...
>
>

Andy,

Might have been a hack job independant suspension. Or, it came off a Seville
that had independant sus. Those rear ends looked a bit wierd too. I think you
hit it on the head with the workmanship observation! Of course, it could be
yet another one of those rare Eldonadaos that was set up from the factory
with the off-road package and 4-speed stick shifts!!!

Greg K

------------------------------

From: SG Hartfelder <shartfel@planet.eon.net>
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 22:10:23 -0300
Subject: Help again...

Hi Guys!  Youve been a great help diagnosing other car problems Ive
had.  So, Im hoping you can help me with this one.

Its a starting problem.  Sometimes it starts.  Sometimes it doesnt.

Ive measured the voltage of the battery before starting and its 12.12
volts.  Once it finally does start, the battery measures 13.68 volts.
Does this mean the alternator is good?

When it doesnt start, all I get is a clicking sound?  However, if I turn
on the headlights they are quite bright.  Does this mean the solenoid is
good?

Its weird, the car can sit for a week and start, no problem.  But after
driving around for an hour I can turn it off and immediately afterward
attempt to startit again and..... it wont start.  The car does turn over
for a few seconds but not enough for it to catch and actually start.
Then, it's had it.

To get it to start, I have to attach a trickle battery charger to it for
10-15 minutes then it usually starts.

This one is driving me crazy.  The car HAS to be dependable before I
trust it driving anywhere.  The weather is great here and I'd really like
to get out, drive around and be able to stop and feel confident I'll be
able to get going again.

HELP!!!!  Thanks for your advice.

- ----------------------------------------------------------------
S.G. Hartfelder  Owner: '38 Oldsmobile Street Rod
18619-68 Ave      http://www.cjnetworks.com/olds/hartfelder.html
Edmonton,  AB
CANADA

------------------------------

From: ne1469@ix.netcom.com (Karl Davlin )
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 21:31:20 -0300
Subject: Floor Pans, Advice Needed

I have a '72 Cutlass.  My floor pans are rusted thanks to Nebraska.  
J.C. Whitney has pans for a Chevelle.  They say I'll need to do minor 
cutting.  These pans are 1/2 the price of the ones out of the Olds 
U.S.A catalog.  Does anybody have a recommendation?  Is minor cutting 
that big of a deal?  Is there a difference in gauge of the metal?

                        Karl

p.s. I'm an electronics man not a mechanical man.

------------------------------

From: Mark Wolfe <markw@wwa.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 21:56:28 -0300
Subject: Re: Floor Pans, Advice Needed

Karl Davlin wrote:
> 
> I have a '72 Cutlass.  My floor pans are rusted thanks to Nebraska.
> J.C. Whitney has pans for a Chevelle.  They say I'll need to do minor
> cutting.  These pans are 1/2 the price of the ones out of the Olds
> U.S.A catalog.  Does anybody have a recommendation?  Is minor cutting
> that big of a deal?  Is there a difference in gauge of the metal?
> 
>                         Karl
> 
> p.s. I'm an electronics man not a mechanical man.


Save yourself the trouble and buy my rust free california car (currently 
in des moines, ia).   :)   Thinking about bailing on the big block olds 
(it's a 68, check bryceman's page), and going with an econobox (vortech 
blown 5.0 mustang).   As it is, I'm transfering back out to the coast, 
and don't know if I want to take the car back out there, may be selling 
it in the midwest, either in des moines, or the chicago area.
Cul,
Mark Wolfe

------------------------------

From: Rocketeer <bparker@nmsu.edu>
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 22:03:20 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: probly

>           
> > ok, this porbably wont be too popular with the "purists"out there, but i 
> > must ask it...i have recently come into ownership of a 69 El Camino...is
> > there a way to put a Cutlass front end on, as this was the same platform as 
> > the Chevelle?  dont worry it will probably get the 442 treatment and have
> > Full olds markings on it...
> >                          Zack
>           I've been researching this for some time, with the intent of 
>           building a 68 "Olds Camino".  The front sheetmetal should 
>           bolt on, as the frame and cowl attach points are the same 
>           for a Chevelle.  Similarly, the interior should be a 
>           bolt-in, with the exception that you will need to replace 
>           the metal dash understructure with one from a Cutlass.  
>           
>           The big problem, of course, is the doors and rear quarters, 
>           which are El Camino unique.  The Chevelle side profile is 
>           different from that of the Cutlass, so just bolting on the 
>           front fenders will leave a big gap at the front doors.  It 
>           appears that the door inner sheet metal is the same on all 
>           A-body cars, so one could concievably adapt the door skins 
>           from a 4 door Cutlass Cruiser.  Rear quarters are the worst.  
>           One would need to do some serious cutting and pasting with a 
>           MIG welder and a set of Cutlass wagon rear doors and quarters 
>           to get it to look good.  The tail gate should bolt in (after 
>           first removing the glass).
>           
>           (Note that the El Camino is based on the A-body wagon.  There 
>           is a bolted-on panel in the bed right behind the cab which 
>           covers the second seat footwell in the wagon floor pan.  A 
>           popular El Camino mod is to equip this panel with a piano 
>           hinge and a lock to create a storage compartment.)
>           
>           Once all the sheet metal work is done, installation of a 455 
>           should be easy with the proper frame mounts.  Top it off with 
>           a W-27 rear end (hey, this is already a money-is-no-object 
>           project) and W-30 induction and you've got a real headturner 
>           at the next OCA Nats.

Sounds like starting out with a plain Cutlass wagon, and cutting it down to
"El Camino" specs would be a hell of a lot easier, then giving it the Wonder
Wagon treatment. Only thing is do you keep the woodgrain or not????

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 01:18:52 -0300
Subject: Re: Le Mans

JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com wrote:
> 

>           Wasn't it a Ford GT-40 in 1969 (privately owned, as I think
>           the factory pulled out in 67-ish)?  In fact didn't Ford have
>           a string of wins from 66 to 69?

Yeah, that was my first guess.  Memory is the first thing to go...


The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 22:28:19 -0300
Subject: Re: Le Mans

> From oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca Fri Jun 14 21:24 EDT 1996
> Date: 	Sat, 15 Jun 1996 01:18:52 -0300
> From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
> Organization: EDIson3, Inc.
> X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Win16; I)
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> To: oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
> Subject: Re: Le Mans
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Sender: oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca
> Reply-To: oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
> 
> Yeah, that was my first guess.  Memory is the first thing to go...
> 
> 
> The 66 Toro and Mike

No.  Memory is the second thing to go.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-5450    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: Miles Lott <milos@insync.net>
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 20:38:45 -0300
Subject: Re: '72 350 Engine noise 

Damaged as in the balancer was pivoting off-axis on the vertical
plane about 1/4";  I notice some play apparently in the crank now.  I do
need to torque the balancer some more, but I doubt that this is the
cause considering how bad it was before.  I am figuring that it would
be worth it to replace the block, but want to make sure it isn't just
a stuck valve.

At 12:51 PM 6/14/96 -0300, you wrote:
>At 08:58 AM 6/14/96 -0300, you wrote:
>>I recently purchased a '72 with about 130k miles on it.  The
>>oil pickup screen was clogged, so I replaced the pump and
>>screen I had ready just in case.  In the process, I damaged the
>>harmonic balancer, which has also been replaced.
>
>Uh, define "damaged", please... As someone else said, perhaps
>the crankshaft was damaged, too? Related possibilities: Wrong
>replacement balancer? Not secured properly on end of crankshaft?
>Insufficient torque? (Those things have a _high_ torque spec.)
>
>Possible rod knock from oil starvation during initial startup?
>
>Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
>Datalogics, Inc.
>441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
>Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473
>
>
>

Miles Lott (http://www.insync.net/~milos)
A.A.S. E.E.T./SBE BCST ENG

KTXH Ch. 20 in Houston, TX - home of the 
Rockets, Astros, Aeros, Terror

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 17:13:47 -0300
Subject: Re[3]: probly 

     I have a particularly masochistic friend who did something very 
     similar with an early chevy II station wagon (I think that's what it 
     was) he chopped the back off and made himself an early 60's el-camino. 
      It looked perfectly original, except of course they didn't make 
     el-caminos back then!  He said it was really easy, but he's a skilled 
     welder with access to lots of high-tech welding equipment.
     
     Could something similar be done with a Vista Cruiser?  Chop it down to 
     make the Olds-Camino rather than build up the El Camino.

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re[2]: probly
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    6/14/96 4:13 PM


     
> ok, this porbably wont be too popular with the "purists"out there, but i 
> must ask it...i have recently come into ownership of a 69 El Camino...is
> there a way to put a Cutlass front end on, as this was the same platform as 
> the Chevelle?  dont worry it will probably get the 442 treatment and have
> Full olds markings on it...
>                          Zack
          I've been researching this for some time, with the intent of 
          building a 68 "Olds Camino".  The front sheetmetal should 
          bolt on, as the frame and cowl attach points are the same 
          for a Chevelle.  Similarly, the interior should be a 
          bolt-in, with the exception that you will need to replace 
          the metal dash understructure with one from a Cutlass.  

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 17:13:40 -0300
Subject: H/OCA and stuff 

     I don't remember who it was that was asking me in e-mail about the 
     H/OCA and OCA, but I thought I should post for that person and all to 
     see that the H/OCA will be officially disconnected from the OCA on 
     August 1st.  What does this mean to you?  It means you will no longer 
     have to be a member of the OCA before joining the H/OCA, and it means 
     the H/OCA dues go up $5 to compensate for the additional overhead of 
     being independent.
     
     I should also note that they (actually Jon the director, he's on this 
     list somewhere so I really have no business speaking for him) stressed 
     that there was no animosity in the sepparation.  Everyone is still 
     friends, everything is cool.
     
     They also had a nifty diagram of lightning rods with details on how to 
     adjust them and what to do if they jam in the new Thunder and 
     Lightning newsletter.  At least for me that alone is worth the years 
     membership!
     
     Something occurred to me while I was reading:  If the OCA or H/OCA 
     don't have space (or the desire) to print a blurb about the olds 
     mailing list in their newsletters, then why doesn't one of us use our 
     free ad we're entitled to to mention it?  I'd be happy to use mine.
     
     Tom L.

------------------------------

From: Bob Valentine <ravalent@liii.com>
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 03:25:13 -0300
Subject: Re: '72 350 Engine noise

On Fri, 14 Jun 1996, Miles Lott wrote:

> I recently purchased a '72 with about 130k miles on it.  The

> I damaged the harmonic balancer, which has also been replaced.  
                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> The engine seems rather unbalanced.  It shakes constantly.
                          ^^^^^^^^^^
   1 + 1 == 2.  8^) I've had Olds balancers "spin" several times, and 
there are several different styles, although I don't know if they 
interchange.  Is the timing mark in the right place?  Dead giveaway.

> be sure before I lay down the bucks.  Any clues?  It kinda sounds
> like someone is tapping it with a 2 by 4.

    I have that sound, but it's on a 200k+ motor that was never 
maintained properly.   I'm fairly convinced that it's piston slap or a 
shot thrust bearing.    I had another 350 that made the same sound and it 
turned out to be wiped out cam bearings.

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                    --> ravalent@liii.com  <--
        "Experience varies directly with equipment ruined"

------------------------------

From: Bob Valentine <ravalent@liii.com>
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 03:35:43 -0300
Subject: Re: Floor Pans, Advice Needed

On Fri, 14 Jun 1996, Karl Davlin wrote:

> I have a '72 Cutlass.  My floor pans are rusted thanks to Nebraska.  
> J.C. Whitney has pans for a Chevelle.  They say I'll need to do minor 
> cutting.  These pans are 1/2 the price of the ones out of the Olds 
> U.S.A catalog.  Does anybody have a recommendation?  Is minor cutting 
> that big of a deal?  Is there a difference in gauge of the metal?

    My general experience is that most of the replacement parts require 
quite a bit of pre-installation surgery to install and they STILL don't 
fit right.   Most of these pans are designed for 64-67 A-bodies and 
require some trimming to fit 68-72.   I ordered a floor brace from both 
Year One and Paddock; neither of them fit properly or had the seatbelt 
mounts in the correct spot.   Ended up hacking the Year One unit to fit, 
only because it was too difficult to make.  

    On my '71 I patched what I had using plain sheet metal.   Worked 
quite well and it doesn't take that long to get the hang of 
cut-fit-heat-weld on these cars.   A good MIG welder is a *MUST*; also 
make sure to clean the metal really well before welding; dirty/rusty 
metal doesn't MIG at all.

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                    --> ravalent@liii.com  <--
     "Clinging Tenaciously to the Trailing Edge of Technology"

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 06:12:33 -0300
Subject: Re: H/OCA and stuff

On Fri, 14 Jun 1996, Tom Lentz wrote:
>      Something occurred to me while I was reading:  If the OCA or H/OCA 
>      don't have space (or the desire) to print a blurb about the olds 
>      mailing list in their newsletters, then why doesn't one of us use our 
>      free ad we're entitled to to mention it?  I'd be happy to use mine.

That's a good idea and one I've been considering myself. The suggestion 
was made to Penny Casteele and if she prints the article in July's JWO as 
she said, there's a chance that the mail list address might start to be 
printed in each issue. If not then this is a great suggestion.

If I see Penny at the Olds homecoming in Lansing I'll ask her.

Out of here for now. Be back in a week. No admin available until then so 
please be gentle...  :)

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Jon442@aol.com
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 13:34:44 -0300
Subject: Re: H/OCA and stuff 

Yes, it is true that the H/OCA will no longer be a chapter of the OCA after
August 1st of this year. And it is also true that there is no animosity
whatsoever between the two clubs. It was basically a financial decision.

Tom, if you were referring to the address of this newsgroup being in JWO, I
got it from JWO some time ago. But it certainly wouldn't hurt to put in a
blurb once in a while. The H/OCA is working on a Web page, and I think the
upcoming issue of Thunder and Lightning will have more information on that. I
will put in the address of this newsgroup as well.

Thanks,

Jon Wessel
Director
Hurst/Olds Club of America

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 17:05:31 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[3]: probly

Tom Lentz wrote:
> 
> Could something similar be done with a Vista Cruiser?  Chop it down to
> make the Olds-Camino rather than build up the El Camino.


No, man!  Don't cut up a V/C to make it like a Ch*vy!


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 17:02:55 -0300
Subject: Re: Le Mans

Robert Lawrence wrote:
>
> No.  Memory is the second thing to go.

Oh.  I forgot.


The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 15:03:09 -0300
Subject: Re: Floor Pans, Advice Needed 

I ordered floor pans for each corner from the El Camino Store in California
for my 
75 Hurst/Olds. I ordered them for a 75 El Camino and the pans went in
perfect with no alterations. Price was $251 for all four. They had them for
72's also. Most of the pans interchange or need minor cutting to fit an the
same body platform.

At 09:31 PM 6/14/96 -0300, Karl Davlin wrote:
>I have a '72 Cutlass.  My floor pans are rusted thanks to Nebraska.  
>J.C. Whitney has pans for a Chevelle.  They say I'll need to do minor 
>cutting.
>
>



Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio					z28cfi@gwis.com
1988 Camaro IROC-Z/28 5.0 bowtie power			jlabay@phoenix.kent.edu
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25 5.7 rocket power

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #204
********************************

