To:	oldsmobile-digest @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET @ ABTLAB
Date:	08/22/96 06:36:01 PM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #276


oldsmobile-digest         Thursday, 22 August 1996      Volume 01 : Number 276


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 19:33:37 -0300
Subject: Re: Re-upholstering Seats - LEGENDARY 

> 
> Jeff,
>   I know Year One has some good stuff, but I've been told that an upolstory
> company in Florida called LEGENDAY makes the best stuff.  I don't have their
> # or address, but someone on the page might return that too us all hopefully
> (I need to do my front buckets).  But, for all I know, Legendary may supply
> Year One.  And if that's the case, Year One may be able to offer you a
> cheaper price than the original company because of the large quantity
> discount they recieve as opposed to just you and me calling up Legenday and
> asking for prices.
> 
>                                                          Craig Dobbins
>                                                          '68 442

Craig & Jeff:

Try	Legendary Auto Interiors, Ltd.
	121 West Shore Boulevard 	
	Newark, New York  14513
	PPH 800-363-8804

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 00:50:26 -0300
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Which car is better? (was Cubes)] 

At 12:33 PM 8/21/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Hey guys...
>
>This particular posting reminds me of the day back around 1979,
>soon after I rejoined Saab Cars USA, Inc. after a 17 year break
[snip of Volvo-bashing Saab guy story]
>Mind you, _my_ Volvos were hardly standard cars.  They were highly
>modified, handled very well as compared with the stuff coming off
>the assembly lines, and they generally went like hell.
>
>I liked most of them very much.  But somehow I always had the feeling
>I WAS TRYING TO MAKE A COW RUN LIKE A HORSE!
>
>That's the way I feel every time I get into a big bore Detroit car,
>definitely including the contemporary hot Pontiacs and Chevys.
>
>Bob Sinclair  -  Santa Barbara

Uh, OK Bob, you got me; _what_ does this have to do with Oldsmobiles? Is
this a flame across the bow from another list? Should we challenge a you to
pit a 1974 fwd Saab 99 head-on against a 1974 fwd Toronado (literally, I
mean, in a head-on collision?).

If you want to consider your Saab a horse, sure, I'll grant you that, as
long as you let me call my Toronado a longhorn steer.

Ok, ok, enough for now. I just really don't know where this post is coming 
from!

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 00:50:32 -0300
Subject: Re: Toroheads, you gotta read this! 

At 11:03 PM 8/21/96 -0400, you wrote:
>In a message dated 96-08-21 22:27:37 EDT, you write:
><< B, C60 Comfortron Air Conditioner
>  >>
>
>No, No!  This is wrong!  I meant C61 for Comfortron.  I swear I'm gonna fire
>the proof reader on of these days!
                  ^^e?

That's it, give him his walking papers!

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 00:50:29 -0300
Subject: Re: A-body 2piece stereo mounting 

At 10:56 PM 8/21/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Hey -
>
>Was looking thru my '72 shop manual to find the thing on the map lamp
>replacement and came across an illustration for mounting the "box" that's
>attached to the stereo radio in '67 to '71 models.  Stereo was 1 piece in '72
[snip]
>I told you we'd find a way to put that bugger in there.  I'm really excited.
> Hope you can put it in now.  Wish I had looked at the manual a few months
>ago when this came up.  I'll never learn.
>
>Paul

Well, a bit more recently I've been wanting to find out how to get the
2-piece stereo in my '69 Toronado (E-body) working; is there anything in the
manual on that?

Oh, and what do they say about replacing the map light?

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 19:56:05 -0300
Subject: Re: Re-upholstering Seats

> 
> The seat skins that year one sells are made by PUI.  These are supposed to
> be the best on the market for correct apperance, shape, texture, fit etc...
> I purchased my set(front and rear) for the '70 442 from Tamraz's
> (1-800-442-4601 or 708-904-4500). They sell the exact same brand (PUI) and
> are about $115 less ($260/set as oppossed to $375/set from Year One).  They
> look perfect.  They also sell the proper pre-molded seat foam if you need it.
> A friend of mine purchased just one bucket seat skin (PUI brand) and
> installed it in his '69 cutlass 'S' and you could not tell the difference
> between the original one and the new one other than the new one being much
> cleaner.
> Hope this helps...
> 
> Nick DiGiovanni
>Nick:

I bought a complete set of interior for my 1970 Buick GS from Tamraz's & 
it is nice.  I couldn't be better pleased & the price is right.  My '68 
442 is next.  If you call ask for Bob.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alamaba

PS:  I have an interest in the company.  I bought that interior didn't 
I?  I should own a big interest.

------------------------------

From: dink@infinet.com
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 20:49:08 -0300
Subject: Leaving the List

Well guys I guess it's time to leave this great family.  You guys 
have been the greatest, from helping me take a headlight switch off, 
to making me really appreciate Oldsmobiles, even Toro's  :)   Well I have to 
go back 
to school in about  a week, and since I lost my Olds I'm going to 
unsubscribe.  I'm still looking for a 56 88, and hopefully will 
purchase one next summer.  I'm really hoping the project will come 
alive next summer as i'm trying to save as much money as possible for 
it.  As soon as I get another Olds you guys will be the first to 
know.

Thanks Again,
              Dink


- ---
Dink@infinet.com
www.infinet.com/~dink
Brunswick, Oh
Currently carless :(
- ---

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 20:01:16 -0300
Subject: Re: Re-upholstering Seats

there are two manufacturuers of Olds interior kits: PUI, and Crown
> (or Krown, not sure which). Apparently Crown made many of the original
> upholstery sets for Olds in the 60's and 70's. The concensus was that
> Crown's stuff was superior, although for certain years and types either
> one or the other firm is the only source. Either was good, but it was a
> matter of degree in subtle things like depth of grain, color matching, and
> so on.
> 
> 
> I understand that Legendary Interiors tends to specialize in makes other
> than Olds, specifically Mopar.
> 
> Greg Beaulieu        


Greg:

I believe taht you are right about Legendary producing mostly Mopar.  I 
wonder though about Crown making upholstery for Olds.  I believe that 
the upholstery is made in house although they could have supplied 
materials.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 01:10:31 -0300
Subject: Re: Northern Ohio Olds Show

I will be looking for either car. They would throw me out if I brought my
Hurst/Olds. That would require a flatbed though as it is in pieces now .

>So's mine.  We'll be coming out Saturday nite.  Be there prolly first thing
>Sunday morn.  Don't know what I'll have there yet.  One of two choices:  '67
>98 Holiday Coupe, Turquoise, big dent in fender or '72 C/S conv., yellow
>w/white top, lots of rust.
>Which one do you think they'll throw me out in?
>
>Paul
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com)
1988 IROC Z/28...............salvage yard special
1980  4-4-2 W-30.............1 of  886       OCA#027572

1975 Hurst/Olds W-25...1 of 2535  H/OCA#0278A             
Just what the doctor ordered....those awesome W-Machines.

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 01:13:04 -0300
Subject: Mark's Setup 

Mark, 
Thanks for the detail in your description. If the rest of us knew and provided 
such
detail, we'd all be better off. I'm sure I won't duplicate it in my 98, but 
it's
cool to know what *can* be done in the name of superior performance. Cool.
chris fair

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 01:17:10 -0300
Subject: Front End 

Does persistent squeaking mean it's time for new bushings or is there another
fix to make them quiet. I have rubber ones in there now and am considering 
Polygraphite to be quieter and a bit firmer replacement. Is this a bad move on
a 98, should I stick with stock for the ride and will they squeak too?

Tired of creaking and groaning
chris fair

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 01:21:15 -0300
Subject: Halls Salvage 

Am going cross country next week and considering a stop in at Hall's Salvage 
before
returning to the west coast. I'll be looking for parts to a 66 98, do any of 
you
know if this stop is worth it? I don't need a frame or anything, mostly 
interior
pieces like a tilt/tele and stuff like that. Have any of you visited and did 
you
feel it was worth the trip? 
cf

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 01:19:13 -0300
Subject: Differential 

Is there any way to tell whether I have a 12 or 10 bolt rear end without taking
the cover off the diff? I don't want to mess with resealing and would like to 
know to price out replacing the gearset. 
thanks
chris fair

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 01:28:51 -0300
Subject: 4 Speed Silence 

Could be the reason for a relative silence on 4 speed parts is that
they're rare in the oldsmoworld. No malice or wisecrack intended
here at all. Frustrating to not be able to find what you need.
cf

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 02:03:59 -0300
Subject: Re: Mark's Setup 

thanks for the complement, I enjoy helping others with performance 
for their Oldsmobiles.  Some people don't like to be bothered, but I
live to share knowledge of testing and tuning.  So anybody needs help,
do not hesitate to call or e-mail me for help

THANKS AGAIN FROM W MACHINES (Mark Prince)

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 02:20:24 -0300
Subject: Re: Front End, Differential 

The front end sqeaks because the rubber bushings are dry rotted.
I bought poly bushings from Summit and they do not squeak as 
long you use the prelube with the kits.  The are far superior for handling
and driving compared to rubber.  The rubber is fine if you plan to store
your vehicle in a climate control enviroment due to the they still dry 
up and cause the annoying squeaks.

As for the differential Oldsmobile made 10 and 12 bolt covers but the 
carrier inside is a 10 bolt.  Depending on years, the easiest rearends to 
modify are the 71 to 76 10 bolt corparates put under ninty eights and
cutlass's.
The 10 bolt is a 8.5 carrier and you can use posi from 2.73 and up to fit
your
need.  In 68 to 70 their were 12 bolt housing but 10 bolt carriers that
measure
8.2 or 8.8 i can not remember. But parts are hard to get.  

well hope I helped 
W MACHINES
72 442 W-30

------------------------------

From: Bob Valentine <ravalent@liii.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 03:01:58 -0300
Subject: Re: 4 Speed Silence

On Thu, 22 Aug 1996, Chris Fair wrote:

> Could be the reason for a relative silence on 4 speed parts is that
> they're rare in the oldsmoworld. No malice or wisecrack intended
> here at all. Frustrating to not be able to find what you need.

    Sad but true, and it's kinda hard to convert to a 4 speed since most 
(all except M/T cars?) Olds motors don't have the crank drilled to accept 
a pilot bearing.

    When I had my crank done (soon to be balanced in light of the last 
few messages) I had the hole drilled in case I ever get the urge to bang 
gears again.  Want a even harder 4-speed related find?  Try a Olds 350 
M/T flywheel! 

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                    --> ravalent@liii.com  <--
        "Experience varies directly with equipment ruined"

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 17:10:02 -0300
Subject: Thanks Folks 

All the suggestions on what was wrong with the fubar'd engine in my `72
Vista Cruiser were greatly appreciated.  It looks like my coil (appears to
be original '72) was giving the points a hard time.  It seems something in
the coil shorted enough to burn up the points...and I mean cooked.  The
copper parts of the points had some serious oxidation going on (from getting
reall hot) and they ended up with a blue-green color.  In spite of all the
shorting the coil was still able to produce a healthy spark. For awhile I
thought the problem was the condenser messing something up and possibly
causing the points to mess up and burn up.  Though the problem was fixed but
after a short trip a brand new set of points appear to be shot.  I haven't
taken the distributor cap off but the car ran like it had burnt points.  Now
I think my original problem was a short in the coil that cooked the points
and possibly the condenser.  Flooding and possibly a distributor twisted out
of time may have resulted, so the car ran lousy and eventually wouldn't do
squat.  Gonna replace the points and try and run the tractor coil on the
olds and see if the points burn up within 70 miles again.

Again, thanks a million for the help.

Anyone who would like to hear my story can read on, here's my saga---

We tried tuesday to fix it while it was sitting in the parking lot where I
left it. Went out in the moning with a coil robbed from dad's `56 case
tractor.  Also took a new distributor cap and rotor. (taken legally from
autozone.)  The original coil produced a weak spark but it looked like
enough to at least get a sputter or some type of noise.  When we installed
the tractor coil (just a standard ch*vy coil) the spark got no better.
gapping the points to .016 with a feeler gauge didn't produce a better
spark.  Would only jump about 1/4 inch to ground.  Just scratched our heads
and tried different points, twisted the distributor while
cranking...couldn't get the motor to do nuthin'.  Not even a backfire.
Pulled all the plugs.  They weren't exaclty gas fouled but they smelled
stongly of wet gas.  We figured it could have easily flooded while it was
running lousy and it maybe still had gas puddled in the cylinders.  Cranked
the engine with no plugs to try and evaporate or work out anything left in
the cylinders but the car still wouldn't even cough or pop after going
though all of that.  Spent from 10am until about 3pm working on the car.
Also made sure the tractor coil worked.(The tractor ran fine with the
Oldsmobile coil too.  Stuff like that just makes you wanna chew on some
glass to relax.  At any rate both coils could run an engine)

Decided we couldn't do any more with the car without taking it home.  I was
pretty much ashamed to call the rollback truck to come and get it.The Vista
Cruiser had only needed a stetcher once before and that was because the
lower flange on the radiator got bent when it was put in and it wasn't
spotted until the car overheated and wouldn't hold water.  Dad was out of
town at the time so the car had to be towed.  That was the only time it
hasn't come home under it's own steam in the 16 years that it's been in the
family.  We didn't want to ruin such a near-perfect record but the car
wasn't starting and it was very hot without a shadetree.  Twas a sad day.

Got it home and checed the compression.  Figured if it was low then it would
be a good indication of a skipped timing chain.  Compression was pretty good
but we removed a valve cover and checked to see if both valves were closed
at tdc.  It looked fine.  Blew the cylinders out with the air hose while the
plugs were out; put it all back together...and by now I'm sure everyone is
way ahead of me, the engine was still lifeless.  Checked the coil again and
found out the spark was getting weaker.  Pulled out the points and they were
toast.  The plastic (teflon?) was melted and disfigured and the spring
apparently got way too hot and wouldn't close the points.  Decided maybe the
condenser went bad and caused some problem with the points shorting.  Went
and got new points and condenser and replaced them along with the wire from
the points to the coil.  Cranked the engine and it sneezed through the
carbueretor.  Cranked while fiddling with ignition timing and damned if the
thing didn't start and run after a little shot of either.  Adjusted the
timing and got it right and the car ran great; smooth and plenty of power.
I got brave and drove it to Blacksburg (70 miles round trip) about 20 miles
into the trip it began a slight sputter at low cruise RPM (about 1400 RPM).
As I progressed through the blacksburg traffic the car ran wose and worse.
Best described as a sputter under load.  Got it back home but by that time I
had some serious power loss and a lousy running engine.  Guessing the coil's
gone bad and shorted the points.  Will soon see.

Greg Pruett
`72 Vista Cruiser: still feeling a little whoosey but on the mend


Insert philosophical and/or amusing phrase here-----------

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 04:43:01 -0300
Subject: Mondello Cam Button

Okay folks here's something a few of you may have something to say 
about.  Has anyone out there used Mondello's cam button and had a 
FAVORABLE outcome?  The only two opinions I have heard on the button is 
NOT to use it because it causes wear.  

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 04:43:53 -0300
Subject: DFL's

Okay for the engine builders out there, has anyone tried using Dry Film 
Lubricants?  I know Dick Miller went off about them in a newsletter a 
while back but has anyone here had personal experience using DFL?

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: Esko Ilola <esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 05:04:11 -0300
Subject: Vent cover, thanks and answers

First of all, I write this in a single file
to keep your mail list a little bit smaller.

> Dan Gulino wrote:
> This is a vacuum line and it should connect somewhere around the base of 
> the carburetor.  Look for an open vacuum line connector sticking out 
> somewhere.  It looks like a small tube with a flared end.There was a 
T-connection in the hose that goes to the
device that controls idle. As you can imagine, the idle
controller was not operational when assembled like this.
It just didn't receive vacuum. All vacuum entered the
valve cover. I think that this idle controlling device
could have something to do with the air conditioning
( air conditioning needs higher idle to operate).

> Dan Gulino wrote:
> According to the 1964 Olds Service manuals, your engine should be RED.  
> All 1964 98's were equipped with a 394 cubic inch V-8 and 4-bbl 
carburetor.Yes, it's red. My shop-manual (the 5-volume set) agrees.

> Dan Gulino wrote:
> I would use just use the gaskets as they are with perhaps some adhesive 
> to hold them in place as you position the valve covers, insert the 
> screws, and tighten them down.That's exactly what I did. The 'adhesive' was 
that black silicone stuff.
I didn't apply it on the block-side of the gasgets. No leaks, easy install
(once you removed the PS-pump, alternator and A/C-pump).

> Dan Gulino wrote:
> letters are, I can perhaps help decode them to.  At least it should be 
> possible to determine the original color sheme your car had when it left The 
paint is original, I've checked it out by two ways:
a) studying my shop-manuals
b) looking traces of original paint in places where it's impossible to
repaint
We (me and my wife) found the number! It's not a plate. It is a serial
number stapled (hope this is the correct term) on the body in front of
driver side front-wheel. I think this is something that is added later
to make the vechile meet the Finnish regulations. I will tell about these
ridiculous regulations later in this email.

> Paul wrote:
> Some of these come in gray, some come in a beige or yellow like color. Cars
> I have seen of that age use the beige.I took a piece of that ugly looking 
material, washed it and voila', it turned
beige. Thank you.

> Paul wrote:
>  Can't remember the air cleaner color either, want to say it's red/orange
> like my '67 is.  Going the Northern Ohio Olds show this weekeng, I'll look
> at the '64s and check this stuff out.I look forward to it.

> Paul wrote:
> We've got to get a set of service manuals like you talked about before.  I
> saw a set (all 5) at OCA Nationals last week.  Thought of you right away.Are 
these the original stuff ?
I have a copy, but I'm doubting that they have possibly left something
out of this copy. Like this PVC-system

*******************************************

The way to rebuild your car in Finland:

In Finland we have to pay tax for every car. The tax is about 150
percent of it's value. 
When you rebuild your car, you should not replace more than 50 percent
of it. If you exceed that amount, the covernment says that you have a
new car and that you should (merely must) pay the tax.
To control these things there must be serial numbers around the car.
It was one of these serial numbers that confused me and the inspection
engineer.

- -- 
**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi           *
* X400  G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
* Oldsmobile 98  1964  4D HT                 *
**********************************************

------------------------------

From: Esko Ilola <esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 05:37:56 -0300
Subject: RE: DFL's

> Information age and-so-on wrote:
> Okay for the engine builders out there, has anyone tried using Dry Film 
> Lubricants?  I know Dick Miller went off about them in a newsletter a 
> while back but has anyone here had personal experience using DFL?

Well, I have a set of kitchen stuff coated with TEFLON :-).

If you are looking for an additive for your motor oil,
I would NOT try it. I have a friend here in Finland
who cranked his engine just by inserting some slippery
stuff into it's oil. That stuff contained TEFLON among
other slippery things. The engine blowed because it didn't
get any oil because some stuff had clogged the oil filter.

The DFL:s are best used when there is no way to use conventional
lubricants like in food industry. In these cases the machinery
is ENGINEERED to use these lubricants. Please, read the article
I picked from internet for you. For others that are interested
in this subject, the article can be read from:
http://riem.com/disk$user_disk1/http/Snake_Oil.txt

If you can contact internet, try these, but beware, they
are mostly commercials:
http://www.decc.com/dryfilm.htm
http://www.ukindustry.co.uk/rocol/food.htm
http://www.brooks.af.mil/HSC/EMP/smalc.htm
http://dm.deskmedia.com/~techline/cat-3.html
http://dm.deskmedia.com/~techline/tech-5.html
http://clean.rti.org/larry/pol13.htm
http://www.aqmd.gov/rules/html/r1124.html
http://www.cp-sc.com/
http://www.magnaplate.com/index.html
http://www.wco.com/~sc7500/lead2.html
http://206.243.32.11/raceparts/cylinder_heads/cylinder.html
http://www.wco.com/~sc7500/coatinfo.html

- -- 
**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi           *
* X400  G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
* Oldsmobile 98  1964  4D HT                 *
**********************************************

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 06:04:11 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds' on the big screen 

>Who wants to summarize the use of Olds' in movies for inclusion in the FAQ?
>
>How about a listing something like:
>
>Movie               Year   What Olds   Comments
>-----               ----     ---------   --------
>Summer of my Olds   '69    '68 H/O     Beats Ch*vy, F*rd, D*dge at track
>                                       Not destroyed :).
>Demo Man            '94    '70 442     A pinnacle of rebels independence.
>                                       Suffers front end hurt :(.
>Smash & Bash Days   '83    '70 D88     About to win demo derby until ganged
>                                       up on.  Destroyed.
>
>(1st and 3rd are made up)

     Watched "Milk Money" on HBO today.  Had a really clean Cutlass
Convertible in it.  The mechanic work on it was rather far fetched, and the
poor thing met its tragic end, but it ~was~ a really sweet car!  Why can't
more movies destroy Dodges, like the Dukes of Hazzard and such...?
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 06:04:15 -0300
Subject: Re: 1980 442 W-30 research findings..... 

>I told everyone Monday of a 1980 442 W-30  that I am considering buying.
>Well I did some little fact finding on my own and came across some
>interesting info. This car was produced, only 886 made. The paint scheme is
>the same as the 79 H/O. Externally the only differences that I can see
>between a 79 H/O and the 80 442 W-30 is that the 80 has 4 headlights and a
>rear deck spoiler standard. There are 442 badges on the fenders, rear trunk
>and interior door panels. Factory dual exhaust was standard and this car
>still has the original muffler and pipes (it is from Arizona) and has 92,000
>miles. This was the last year of the 442 until 1985.

     Today here in Havre, I saw a 1980 442-W30.  Gold on Black, Gold rims,
no spoiler, Saskatchewan plates.  Just saw it driving by.  I found it
interesting, anyway.  Seeing the "W-30" on the front fenders got me a bit
excited, tho'...

     Talked to the guy later tonight.  It's got a 403 in it, (not stock...
came with a 350 Rocket he says.)  He got the car for $400 w/o motor, it had
been stolen.  He told me it was one of 538 made, and someone he knows in
Prince Albert has three more.  One for sale at $4000.  Said they all had tan
interiors, his had been switched to green or black or something.  It was
rough but still a very classy ride. He (and his friends) seemed to be fairly
impressed with the Rockit (more in a different posting today, note the sig.
file for now...) Anyway, the car looked like something I'd have parked in
front of my house.  If I wasn't so broke from my recent excursion (sig. file
again...)  I'd have offered him some $$$ for it, but that wasn't the case.
Actually, if I had any cash just hanging out, I'd have an '86 Cutlass, too.
There's one sitting in a lot here, with buckets, console, and decent doors
and it could be mine for $300!  V6, and brown, but still Olds...It would go
well in my collection!


    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 06:04:18 -0300
Subject: The Rockit's back (and so am I!) 

     Well, it's been a while, but I'm back on the computer.  I ended up
buying the '67 98 Convertible.  The 425's in the Rockit and I fired her up
yesterday after work.  Oh man I've missed that car!!!  It took a lot of
prying to get my fingers off the wheel last night, and the only reason I
could tonight is that I could barely keep my eyes open!!!  It's pretty close
to being broke in, so I took it to the quarter for a quick snack tonight.
Mid 70's Firebird.  We've been fearing this one for a while, but he would
never race any of our fast looking cars.  It sounds really beefy, and the
burnout he left at the starting line makes me think it might be (it was
l-o-n-g!)  Whipped him hard twice in a row.  A really cool feeling!  (never
a doubt....)  
     Anyway, my powerplant is the '67 425, mostly stock, fresh rings and
bearings, with a fairly recent full overhaul, I guess.  I put an Edelbrock
Performer on it, with the Holley carb and fuel pump.  A little chrome here
and there to add some sparkle was necessary until I get the hood on!  (I've
had a lot of compliments on it, although the rest of the engine bay looks
like crap!)  I've got pictures of it assembled on the crate, and I'll get
more of the finished job so I can get them on my webpage.  Our server's
modems have been screwey all summer, so I'm lucky if I even see my page, so
I hope I can get the pic's on there when they get back...
     I put 245-60R14's on the back today (they fit better than the
295-60R15's!!!) and I actually hook up quite well!  It looks like a real car
again, too!  On certain surfaces, though, they make this ~very~ audible
barking noise going into second gear.  ~too cool~!!!  I've still got the
3.23 posi in there for the curious ones.  I haven't got my lift bars on yet,
though.  (it's been *how* long?)
     I bought those Air Lift bags for the GS.  They rock!  It leaves posi's
now!!!  Many thanks to Bob (if I remember right) for that tip, they work
great!  
     As for the covertible, it's in storage for a while.  I've got a 77 403,
Offy intake, CompCams 280 Magnum, and Hooker SuperComp headers waiting for
it.  (OK, OK, they're ~actually~ waiting for ME to get off my dead ass and
put them in it, but... :)  I think the headers will fit that car.  
     The top on that thing has me curious.  There is what looks to be a
clear plastic flap in the center of the roof (Since it is so mangled, I can
only guess.)  It appears to be some sort of sunroof in the convertible top.
Is there any such thing?  Or does canvas just fade into nothing, and turn
that color in the process?
     I snapped a few photos of it, too, so I will try to get them on my page
somewhere when I get them back.
     I gotta go, for now, tho. it's 4:00  AM.  I'm getting tired again.  I'm
plumb wired and happy, because I have my car back!!!   :) :)
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 09:42:55 -0300
Subject: Re: Northern Ohio Olds Show 

At 11:08 PM 8/21/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Good, I will be looking for the Delta 88. If anyone else wrote and told me
>they are going I missed it. I lost a big chunck of mail last night when
>lightning ruined my hard disk. Hope the weather holds up for Sunday.

As of now, the extended forecast for Sunday looks like sunny and a high
of 83.


Dan


************************************************
Daniel A. Gulino
Associate Professor and Graduate Chairman
Department of Chemical Engineering
Ohio University
Athens, Ohio  45701-2979
(614) 593-1495
(614) 593-0873 (fax)
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://www.ent.ohiou.edu/che/faculty/gulino.html
************************************************

------------------------------

From: DELPROPO@emuvax.emich.edu
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 09:50:27 -0300
Subject: Re: Hood hinge Restoration 

Thanks, I will give it a try.............. 

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 10:01:11 -0300
Subject: Re: Northern Ohio Olds Show 

At 11:13 PM 8/21/96 -0300, you wrote:
>In a message dated 96-08-21 19:07:27 EDT, you write:

>So's mine.  We'll be coming out Saturday nite.  Be there prolly first thing
>Sunday morn.  Don't know what I'll have there yet.  One of two choices:  '67
>98 Holiday Coupe, Turquoise, big dent in fender or '72 C/S conv., yellow
>w/white top, lots of rust.
>Which one do you think they'll throw me out in?
>
>Paul


They won't throw you out!  At our show in Columbus each year, we WELCOME
the everyday drivers and the beaters.  We think that it tends to exclude the
younger
members who might not have the bucks to make a 100 point show car if you make
a fuss over only the perfect cars.  We give an award to "most rust," "worst
engine,"
and "worst interior."

I'd bring the 98.  At most of these shows, there are tons and tons
(literally, as well 
as figuratively) of Cutlasses, but relatively few of the full-size models,
particularly
from the 70s on up.


Dan


************************************************
Daniel A. Gulino
Associate Professor and Graduate Chairman
Department of Chemical Engineering
Ohio University
Athens, Ohio  45701-2979
(614) 593-1495
(614) 593-0873 (fax)
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://www.ent.ohiou.edu/che/faculty/gulino.html
************************************************

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 19:08:32 -0300
Subject: Re: F-M engine bearings

I chose these bearing (Clevite/Michigan 77) because of their reputation. 
There in my engine right now. There better be good!
- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 19:13:42 -0300
Subject: Re: Front End, Differential

WMACHINES@aol.com wrote:
> 
> As for the differential Oldsmobile made 10 and 12 bolt covers but the
> carrier inside is a 10 bolt.  Depending on years, the easiest rearends to
> modify are the 71 to 76 10 bolt corparates put under ninty eights and
> cutlass's.
> The 10 bolt is a 8.5 carrier and you can use posi from 2.73 and up to fit
> your
> need.  In 68 to 70 their were 12 bolt housing but 10 bolt carriers that
> measure
> 8.2 or 8.8 i can not remember. But parts are hard to get.
> 

Are you sure this can be done w/ '72 8.5 10 bolt rear ends. In my '72 442 I 
have the 10 bolt 8.5 
rear w/ 2.73 gears however I was told that if I wanted to go to a 3.42 gears 
set w/ posi I would 
need to change the carrier inorder for 3 series gear to fit. Is this the case?
- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 19:21:13 -0300
Subject: Re: Mondello Cam Button

Paul R. K. Kuromoto wrote:
> 
> Okay folks here's something a few of you may have something to say
> about.  Has anyone out there used Mondello's cam button and had a
> FAVORABLE outcome?  The only two opinions I have heard on the button is
> NOT to use it because it causes wear.
> 

I'm not sure I know what you are referring to. Is the cam button a 
rolloer ball that sits between the timing cover and the cam sprocket. If 
so I'm using one. But I havn't been using it that long only about 3 
years and not alot of driving. What kind of wear you we talking about?
- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: Rocketeer <bparker@nmsu.edu>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 10:37:03 -0300
Subject: Cam Stuff

The '67 425 in my '66 convert will be getting some upgrades this fall.

Has anyone out there used Modello's JM18-20 cam? If so, what did you 
think about it?

Has anyone used Comp Cams roller tip rockers, any comments on these?

Boyd Parker (aka Rocketeer)            __|__
                                      |  |  |  Why drive just a car...
1966 4-speed Cutlass Convertible      |  |  |  when you can ride a rocket !
1970 4-4-2 Convertible                |  |  |
                                      | /|\ |
                                      |/ | \|
                                      |__|__|
                                         |

------------------------------

From: "AUVAX7::RILES" <RILES%AUVAX7.decnet@auscam.amd.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 10:53:00 -0300
Subject: North Texas Olds Show 8/31

Greetings,

Anyone in the southwest (or anyplace else for that matter) going to the North 
Texas 
Olds show in Dallas 8/31-9/1?  I'm going on Friday afternoon and would like to 
caravan with anyone in the central/south Texas area.  

Robert Iles
'71 Cutlass Convertible

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 14:11:10 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds' on the big screen

buehner wrote:
> 
> Who wants to summarize the use of Olds' in movies 
> for inclusion in the FAQ?

I'll do it.  Send me the stuff with a "MOVIE" subject and I'll start 
HTMLing it.  Is this gonna live on the server with the other FAQs?

> Why can't more movies destroy Dodges...

Or Fords.

...I take that back.  No need.  If Jeannie's Lincoln is any indication, 
they are apparently bent on destroying themselves -- one part at a time.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 10:17:16 -0300
Subject: RE: Head bolts vs. head studs 

>Well in this case its sort of your weakest link in a chain. The studs will
>definitely provide more clamping force,

Just curious: why is this? I'd have thunk they'd be the same Re: clamping
force, although it's more of a hassle to pull a head off studs since it's
easy to get the darn thing cockeyed and jammed.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 14:30:35 -0300
Subject: Re: Resto Tips .....

PHartlieb@aol.com wrote:
> 
> <<continuous play tape of 48 oldsmobile commercials and radio shows)>>
> 
> Ever thought about making copies of this and selling them?  

I'd be careful about that.
Copyrights, you know.  
GM has a LOT of lawyers!

The 66 Toro and MIke


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 10:15:20 -0300
Subject: Re: Late model timing Q's 

>> Um, you lost me there. Wouldn't tapping the coil wire give you all
>> eight cylinder firings? How would this help when spotting the timing
>> mark? And with coil-in-cap designs, there is no coil wire...
>>Andrew:
>Sorry brain cramp, I have been working on too many front wheel drives.
>you are right on coil wire. on the FWD 4 and 6 cyl olds (in fact all GM) 
>you do use the coil wire. Try it and see how easy it is to see the mark. 
>this is called ave timing.

Not to belabor the point but I still don't follow this. (Crowd: "SIT DOWN,
ANDY!") Hook it up to the coil wire and you'll get 4 or 6 firings per
cycle, only one of which will illuminate the timing mark. I don't see how
this is better. But I'll give it a try; one of my neighbors has a 4-cyl
FWD that needs some attention anyway...

...hey, wait a minute, is it because an opposing cylinder will also fire
on the timing mark while #1 is progressing from exhaust to intake? Maybe
I'm starting to figure this out after all...

> Not to bore folks I will quote excerpts from manual:
>This is from a 1881 - 1988  manual. on v6 engines disconect the 4 
>terminal EST connector at the distribitor before timing the engine. On V8 
>engines ground the diagnostic terminal of the 12 terminal ALCL.

Ah. V6 != V8. There's the difference in procedure, all right.


Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 10:23:24 -0300
Subject: Re: Transmission 

>It's
>interesting that Olds used the same engine/transmission components as Pontiac
>& Buick, but I don't know that I've ever seen a FWD Bonneville at our
>dealership with a tranny problem.  As far as I know Buicks are pretty
>reliable too.  Something in those Oldsmobiles is really wrong though.

*ahem*  Well, my '93 SSEi had a GM-labeled remanufactured trans in it
when I bought it last February from a Pontiac dealer. It's been just
fine and I made sure they serviced it along with all the other vital
fluids before I bought the car. Maybe the previous owner beat on it.
And in email last week with a owner of a '94, he mentioned that he had
a rebuilt one put in that, too. No further details...

Oh, yeah, and I have a recall notice pending for trans cooler lines with
a tendency to crack in cold weather; not sure if that is connected with
the previous failures. If I hear anything interesting about transmissions
in the Olds (e.g. 88) when I take mine in, I'll report back. Don't know
whether the 88/98 is included in this recall but I kind of think it is.
(The recall number -- for Pontiacs, at least -- is 95C68 if anyone wants
to call their Olds dealer about it.)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 10:28:52 -0300
Subject: Re: Vent cover and hood questions (98 1964 4DHT Holiday sports sedan) 

>Thought of you right away. Thought to myself "Boy, that guy from 
>wherever with that 98 could sure use those".
 ^^^^^^^^
FINLAND. He's from FINLAND. Jeez, you Americans need to get out more!

(No flame, really; actually I thought it was kind of funny...)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 10:26:45 -0300
Subject: Re: 455+ 

><< You _have_ got a police report on
> this, yes?  >>
>
>Around here, police will not come to the scene of an accident, make out
>report or place blame unless one of the parties is injured of one of the
>vehicles can't be moved under it's own power.

Right, I should have mentioned that you can, and should, go to the nearest
station and make out a report, even if the other driver doesn't bother.
Obviously this protects you against hit-and-run charges (I know, I know,
it was parked, but believe me, _anything_ can happen and often does) if
the other driver decides later to make a fuss about it. No one will collect
tickets like this, but you have at least some paperwork to back you up.

>They MAY come out if there's a
>question of a violation.  How they know if there's a violation if they don't
>come out is beyond me.

I think it's a judgement call on the part of the dispatcher taking the
phone call.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: bryce_smith@442.com (Bryceman)
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 11:46:14 -0300
Subject: Re: Halls Salvage 

>Am going cross country next week and considering a stop in at Hall's
>Salvage before
>returning to the west coast. I'll be looking for parts to a 66 98, do any
>of you
>know if this stop is worth it? I don't need a frame or anything, mostly
>interior
>pieces like a tilt/tele and stuff like that. Have any of you visited and
>did you
>feel it was worth the trip?
>cf

I know for a fact they dont have a tilt/tele, I have been looking for one
for some time for my '66. If you give me a list of what you want I can
check it out with them for you in advance. I live a few minutes south of
Halls. I could probably even meet you there. What day were you planning to
be there?


       Life, Liberty and the "Hot Pursuit" of Oldsmobiles
'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender  '65 442   '70 Cutlass Convertible
           Email: bryceman@442.com  URL: www.442.com

------------------------------

From: Todd Morris <tmorris@bt1dc18e.bet.ibm.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 12:49:56 -0300
Subject: Synthetic Trans Lubricants 

 
Shifting into 2nd on my Muncie is quite stubborn, but only when the trans is 
completely cold, like after it has sat 
overnight. My thinking is that some of the synthetic trans lubricants may help 
here.  Anybody had experience with Red Line 
or any of the other trans lubes?  
 
Todd Morris 
71 442 

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 10:59:44 -0300
Subject: Re: Thanks Folks 

>The Vista
>Cruiser had only needed a stretcher once before

Heh. Like that phrase... :-)

Okay, so to recap, you suspected a shorted coil, yet a replacement from
the tractor ran just as bad when in the car, but either coil ran fine
when installed in the tractor. Therefore the problem is not with the
coil(s). Assuming your points are properly gapped, I'd say your condenser
is toast. Its job is to prevent sparking/arcing at the points, yet yours
are experiencing meltdown. Try another condenser (yes, even new ones off
the shelf can be bad, especially if they've been sitting around a few
years), and if you want to be sure about the coil, check that you have
continuity from one side terminal to the other, and none from the side
terminals to the case or to the center electrode.

...and have you tried a timing light on the engine yet?

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 11:04:09 -0300
Subject: Re: Synthetic Trans Lubricants 

>Shifting into 2nd on my Muncie is quite stubborn, but only when the 
>trans is completely cold, like after it has sat overnight. My thinking 
>is that some of the synthetic trans lubricants may help here. Anybody 
>had experience with Red Line or any of the other trans lubes?  

Red Line MTL has been highly recommended on the British Cars list and
BMW list for exactly that problem...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 12:21:12 -0300
Subject: FUBAR 350 

Humble suggestion about frying points: go to the boneyard and get an
HEI distributor. Then you can forget all about the complexities of 
points, dwell and so forth. I also found that in doing this my radio
had less noise and the car idled better. 
chris fair

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 15:28:48 -0300
Subject: Condensors, Was: Thanks Folks

Andrew C. Green wrote:
> 
> I'd say your condenser ... job is to prevent sparking/arcing at the 
> points...

Well, IMHO there's a little bit more to it than spark supression, Andy.  
DC voltage cannot be step up through a transformer alone (which is what 
the coil is).  The condensor, or capacitor, is charged by 12v then 
discharged through the coil through the action of the points.  The pulse 
generated by this charge/discharge cycle is what's stepped up from ~12v 
to the 25-35,000v of the coil output.

But I do agree with you diagnosis, doctor.   ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 15:36:07 -0300
Subject: Re: FUBAR 350

Chris Fair wrote:
> 
> Humble suggestion about frying points: go to the boneyard and get an
> HEI distributor. Then you can forget all about the complexities of
> points, dwell and so forth. I also found that in doing this my radio
> had less noise and the car idled better.

Total agreement, Chris.  Besides the obvious "points" thing, electronic 
ignitions (like the HEI) put out a pretty constant ignition pulse 
regardless of engine speed -- unlike conventional ignitions.  

Most noticeable when starting, where a conventional ignition may only be 
capable of putting out 15-20,000v when cranking, an electronic ignition 
will still put out 25-35,000v thanks to its internal regulation.  And, as 
you pointed out, it gives a much more reliable ignition pulse at idle.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 12:37:20 -0300
Subject: 455 into a '64 F-85 

 >>Get the accessory brackets that go with the 455 also, as the 
          big block is about an inch taller and 1 1/2 inches wider than 
          the small block.  Alternator will bolt up, but you may have a 
          problem with the old style PS pump.  Alternatives are get a 
          newer style pump (as in from the donor car) or get brackets 
          from a 65-67 400 or 425.
          

It can be _much_ simpler than that.  I've done this swap several times.  

Assuming the F-85 already has a 330 V-8 and you are not changing the
accessories (e.g. using the late model power steering pump) you don't need
any of the accessory mounting hardware from the 455.  The big and small block
accessory mounts of that era are all the same and all the blocks and heads
have the same holes drilled and tapped.  All you have to do is install the
longer belts required of the big block because of the higher deck height.  

If you do change to the later model power steering pump, add A/C, etc., then
you _do_ need to switch entirely to the set up on the 455 donor.

As for exhaust, I don't recommend using the restrictive manifolds of the 330
V-8 on a 455 but the passenger side will fit OK with no frame inteference.
 The drivers side will interfere with the frame.  Do not cut the frame to
make it work!!!  I've actually seen this done! Crazy.

You will need a driver side manifold from a 65-67 (or newer?) 442.  Easiest
way is to install headers.

Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL
U.S. FDA Regulatory Affairs   (407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 12:37:32 -0300
Subject: Decals (and a $ saving resto-tip) 

>>>From: WMACHINES@aol.com
          Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 17:43:04 -0300
        Subject: Re: Source for emission decal 69 442 

          I can help you.  There is a guy by the name of Mark Cornea
         and his handle is Dr. Decal.  He has a license to reproduce 
         every decal made for Oldsmobiles.  He is located here in 
         Michingan.  I just looked in his catalog and he has your 
         decal.

        His address is 
        Mark Cornea Reproductions
        P.O. Box 748
        Dearborn Heights, MI 48127

       Go ahead and ask him for a catalog he sells quality decals and sales
       literature
        for the discriminating restorer 1935-1994.


        W MACHINES (mark prince)


I've been buying Mark's stuff for about 15 years.  He wasn't at the Atlanta
meet this year.  Too bad.  I planned on bitching about the stock he prints
his labels on.  He uses very thin plain paper whereas most of the factory
labels are on a plasticized paper stock.  My original labels lasted ~20
years, the replacements much less.  The engine tune up label I bought for our
SX last year at Greensboro at the OCA meet there lasted, like the previous
one, about 2 months.  It then starts to shrivel up and basically
disintegrate.

There are two solutions.  One, go to a crafts store and purchase the
"Magnetic Canvas" vinyl material they sell.  It's the same stuff those
magnetic business cards on your refrigerator are made of.  A 5" X 8" piece
goes for $1.59 at White Rose here in Florida.

Apply your new label to this stuff, cut it to size and place it where ever it
is supposed to go.  Only use it when you are showing or having the car judged
and the labels will last forever.  A fellow in our local Olds club has
received an AACA Senior award for his '65 Cutlass convert.  At the OCA meet
in Atlanta he took a first as well.  After judging, one of the judges asked
him how he keeps his decals/labels looking so good.  After making sure the
judging was over, he told him this tip.  Try it - works.

The second solution is to try one of the other decal vendors.  Jim Osborne is
one.  I have never bought anything from him but another local club member has
the correct plasticized radiator support tune up label on his '72 Cutlass.
 He got it from Osborne. Osborne advertises if places like Hemmings.

Mark Cornea does not have a license for everything your car needs either.
 One example is he is not licensed to reproduce the "Harrison" labels for A/C
systems. At least he didn't as of last years OCA meet in NC.

Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL
U.S. FDA Regulatory Affairs   (407)365-6385

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 05:34:28 -0300
Subject: Re: Front End 

     It's a temporary fix at best, but if you want some relief from the 
     squeaking until you get a chance to replace them, get a can of spray 
     silicone lubricant and hit the bushings with it.  It's worked for me 
     in the past on a few older cars.
     
     Tom.


______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: Front End
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    8/21/96 9:33 PM


Does persistent squeaking mean it's time for new bushings or is there another 
fix to make them quiet. I have rubber ones in there now and am considering 
Polygraphite to be quieter and a bit firmer replacement. Is this a bad move on 
a 98, should I stick with stock for the ride and will they squeak too?
     
Tired of creaking and groaning
chris fair
     

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 11:36:15 -0300
Subject: Re: Condensors, Was: Thanks Folks 

>> I'd say your condenser ... job is to prevent sparking/arcing at the 
>> points...
>
>Well, IMHO there's a little bit more to it than spark supression, Andy.  

"Mike, you ignorant slut..."  (1)

Yeah, didn't mean that there wasn't... but I think the high temperature
that's melting the points comes from the arcing, and the arcing comes
from what seems to be a dead condensor (condenser? How _do_ you spell
the thing...) which is not letting the current divert to it when the 
points open.

Y'know, there is one other longshot possibility that tripped me up years
ago: the little pigtail lead from the condensor (if it's not a unipoint
setup) goes into a little clip behind the points spring. It was possible
on our '72 LeMans to get the lead's U-shaped connector on the wrong side
of a little insulator disc, so that it was installed but not actually
making contact with the points circuit. Just a thought...

>But I do agree with you diagnosis, doctor.   ;)

*whew!*

- ------
(1) Paraphrased from "Saturday Night Live", circa 1976. Trust me.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: eric_b_buckner@non-hp-om.cv.hp.com
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 12:50:13 -0300
Subject: more 455

Item Subject: cc:Mail Text
     Thanx everyone for the input into my 455 swap. One more question;
     After reading all of the responses I take it that I want a 68-70 455 
     but the only one I've found is a '74. The price is very reasonable but 
     I need to know if I should keep looking. Is there much difference 
     between the recommended year and this one?
     Eric Buckner
     (damaged)'64 F-85 Deluxe
     Albany, OR

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 05:49:23 -0300
Subject: '84 H/O for sale 

     I saw an '84 H/O for sale here in the Spokane valley.  He's asking 
     $8k, but since it's been for sale a while I bet you could make an 
     offer.  I BS'd with the guy for a while and compared H/O notes.  It's 
     a garaged low mileage car (I think around 40k), t-tops and posi.  If 
     anyone is interested let me know and I'll get the phone number and 
     info for you.  He said the only problems he's had so far with the car 
     are (and I'm sure he's being honest since he knew I wasn't going to 
     buy it) a replaced A/C pump, a slight leak around the T-top (but car 
     has been garaged for quite a while), and the right rear spring 
     squeaks.  Apparently the factory left out the spring pad!
     
     I mainly stopped to take a look at the bra he had on the car.  Turns 
     out it's just a 442 bra kind of hacked up to fit around the front 
     airdam.  Looks good from 10 feet away, but up close I didn't like it.
     
     Tom L.

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 13:08:39 -0300
Subject: More 455 

I think the compression is *way* lower on these 74's than on the late 
sixties motors also the intake probably has egr on it which complicates  
matters only if you're planning to drop it in and run it as is. If you're
planning to dump these parts for the very available aftermarket stuff, no 
biggie.  Oh, check to see if the '74 has an HEI or points ignition. HEI
is preferable as noted in recent posts.
chris fair

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 16:09:07 -0300
Subject: Re: Condensors, Was: Thanks Folks

Andrew C. Green wrote:
> 
> "Mike, you ignorant slut..."  (1)

HEY!  Who you callin' ignorant?
 
> ...but I think the high temperature that's melting the points comes 
> from the arcing, and the arcing comes from what seems to be a dead 
> condensor (condenser? How _do_ you spell the thing...)

  ^^^^^^^^^ That way.

> ...which is not letting the current divert to it when the points open.

The condensor and the coil form an LC circuit -- a pulse shaping circiut 
- -- and you're right.  If the condensor is bad, you get an ugly pulse and 
that makes for contact burning.

> ... LeMans to get the lead's U-shaped connector on the wrong side
> of a little insulator disc...

Could be.  I seen some pretty goofy electrical problems in ignition 
systems.  Like the point lead connector not being crimped correctly so 
everytime the distributor advanced, the engine died (my 69 VW).  If he 
swaps the condensor, he should find that.

> (1) Paraphrased from "Saturday Night Live", circa 1976. Trust me.

I do.

Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: SG Hartfelder <shartfel@planet.eol.net>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 13:18:50 -0300
Subject: Road Ready

Did anyone happen to watch the TV show,  Road 
Ready  last weekend on TNN (The Nashville Network).  
At the end of the show they usually introduce new 
products to their viewing audience.  The product 
that looked interesting to me was a security system 
(box) that locks onto your steering wheel.  When 
bumped, it lets off one heck of a noise.

I didn t catch the manufacturer, etc.  Does anyone 
out there know of this product?

**************************************************
SG Hartfelder
Edmonton, AB  CANADA

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 12:18:34 -0300
Subject: Re: Condensors, Was: Thanks Folks 

>Could be.  I seen some pretty goofy electrical problems in ignition 
>systems.  Like the point lead connector not being crimped correctly so 
>everytime the distributor advanced, the engine died (my 69 VW).

Hey, that reminds me of another wacky problem in the distributor that
Dad's '78 Delta 88 came down with. Seems that the engine would miss
at high speeds, and the problem turned out to be one of the wires inside
the distributor that had to flex as the plate rotated, and which had
broken inside its insulation. Looked fine, tested fine, until one bright
mechanic (not me) thought to test its continuity while turning the
plate-formerly-known-as-breaker by hand. Yup, when the wire moved, its
continuity went down the tubes.

>> (1) Paraphrased from "Saturday Night Live", circa 1976. Trust me.
>
>I do.

For the benefit of anyone still scratching their heads: Dan Aykroyd
to Jane Curtin, to be exact, in a parody of the old "60 Minutes"
Point/Counterpoint, on Weekend Update. God, and to think I remember 
watching that live on TV, not just in reruns!

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 13:23:27 -0300
Subject: RE: DFL's

Though about it but never tried it. It seems that the cost involved easily 
outways the increase in power or so I've been told, anyone else?

- ----------
From: 	Paul R. K. Kuromoto[SMTP:suntzu@ohana.com]
Sent: 	Thursday, August 22, 1996 3:43 AM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	DFL's

Okay for the engine builders out there, has anyone tried using Dry Film 
Lubricants?  I know Dick Miller went off about them in a newsletter a 
while back but has anyone here had personal experience using DFL?

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 06:26:31 -0300
Subject: Re: More 455 

     If you get rid of the low-compression heads (probably J's?) in favor 
     of something like C heads, and maybe replace the intake with an 
     Edelbrock unit then you'd have a nice engine.  But where there's C 
     heads, the rest of the engine usually isn't far behind, so just hold 
     out for an earlier engine.
     
     What part of the country are you in?  Someone near your area might 
     have a lead on one if you let us know where you are.
     
     Tom.


______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: More 455
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    8/22/96 9:19 AM


I think the compression is *way* lower on these 74's than on the late 
sixties motors also the intake probably has egr on it which complicates  
matters only if you're planning to drop it in and run it as is. If you're 
planning to dump these parts for the very available aftermarket stuff, no 
biggie.  Oh, check to see if the '74 has an HEI or points ignition. HEI 
is preferable as noted in recent posts.
chris fair
     
     

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 12:20:50 -0300
Subject: Re: Road Ready 

>The product 
>that looked interesting to me was a security system 
>(box) that locks onto your steering wheel.  When 
>bumped, it lets off one heck of a noise.
>
>I didn't catch the manufacturer, etc.  Does anyone 
>out there know of this product?

I've seen a couple of brands of this gadget in K mart and
Trak Auto. If I was a car thief I think I'd wrap a little
duct tape around the thing to muffle it a bit, then slice
that portion of the steering wheel off with my hacksaw and
toss it out the window...  :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 13:27:43 -0300
Subject: RE: Cam Stuff

Jm18-20.... not big enough. The roller tip rockers are a good cheap 
alternative to real roller rockers, They work well.

- ----------
From: 	Rocketeer[SMTP:bparker@nmsu.edu]
Sent: 	Thursday, August 22, 1996 9:37 AM
To: 	Oldsmobile Mailing List
Subject: 	Cam Stuff

The '67 425 in my '66 convert will be getting some upgrades this fall.

Has anyone out there used Modello's JM18-20 cam? If so, what did you 
think about it?

Has anyone used Comp Cams roller tip rockers, any comments on these?

Boyd Parker (aka Rocketeer)            __|__
                                      |  |  |  Why drive just a car...
1966 4-speed Cutlass Convertible      |  |  |  when you can ride a rocket !
1970 4-4-2 Convertible                |  |  |
                                      | /|\ |
                                      |/ | \|
                                      |__|__|
                                         |

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 13:30:46 -0300
Subject: RE: run 12's and drive 95 miles to track (long info)

Now this is a well thought out combination. I'd say that your carb is =
holding you back, an engine like this could easily use a 850 DP. Way to =
go!

- ----------
From: 	WMACHINES@aol.com[SMTP:WMACHINES@aol.com]
Sent: 	Wednesday, August 21, 1996 11:32 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	run 12's and drive 95 miles to track (long info)

 Ok, i will tell you my set up.
 I have a 72 455 that i bored .030 over with torque plates.  I took the =
crank
 and had it cross drilled and chamfered and the counter weights were=20
 deburred.  I am using the stock piston rods with F2323 TRW pistons
 with file fit plasma molly rings.  I have a Toronodo 5qt. pan with =
windage
 trays and a crank scraper.  The oil pump is a melling Hv with toro =
pickup=20
 from Mondello.  I am using a Cloyes double roller timing chain.  My cam =
is
 a comp cam and the specs are as follow    at .050 duration intake 234
 and exhaust 244 the lift is 523 in and 518ex with a 110center line.=20
 advertise duration is 292.=20
 I am using Mondello 7400 roller rockers and standard TRW pushrods and
 TRW lifters.  I set the cam in at O degrees or called straight=20
=20
 Back to the block, i had the block decked so that i have .017 thousands =

 piston to deck clearance, and also using a Victor Gaskets for head =
gaskets
 that measure .028 when compressed.  Felpro gaskets are .038 when =
compressed.
=20
 Now to the Heads,  I am using GA heads the have been milled .060 on =
bottom
 and intake side to give me 73cc of volume.  The valves are Milodon =
stainless
 steel intake 2.072 and exhaust 1.710 with a 5 angle valve job.  The =
center
 divider
 on exhaust side was welded and milled smooth and # 3 and # 6 heat =
risers
 were welded instead of using Mondellos Heat block mix.  The Heads also=20
 have been ported to remove egr bump and the bowls and exhaust polished.
 I recommend not polishing intake side for better Atomizing of the fuel.
 I am using the stock GM valley tray and the Stock W-30 aluminum intake.
 The carb is the Q-jet that i had a local shop bore the bottom .050 and =
put
in
 new
 shaft bushings.  I am using # 69 jets and 48b primary metering rods =
with
 AX secondary metering rods with a K hangar.  The cfm rate is 795 cfm =
and the

 carb # is 7042253.  I am also using the paper filter in the carb.  for =
fuel
 system
 I am using a Holley Blue electric through stock fuel lines and using =
the=20
 stock pickup and the regulator is set at 6.5 PSI. For exhaust i am =
using=20
 Hooker headers with 1 7/8 primary tubes with a 3 inch full exhaust=20
 with Flowmaster 3 inch mufflers with 3 inch tail pipes.=20
 For ignition, i am using the MSD pro billet distributor and the MSD =
blaster=20
 coil and the MSD 6A box with NGK 5670-6 spark plugs gapped at .040
 The wires are just Accel black 8mm wires. I am still using power =
steering
and
=20
 the GM thermo clutch fan and a 160 degree thermostat. I am using 20w50=20
 Vavoline oil and a K&N 3.5 air filter.
 It is also important how you set up your car such as I am using the =
stock
 posi
 rearend but with 4:10 gears and the th400 has a shift kit and I am =
using=20
 a ATI treemaster torque converter that stalls at 3500 RPM.  I shift at
 5600RPM
 when i race this car.  If i drive the car without hot dogging it I get =
about
 10mpg.
 This motor was built for street and strip.  I drove the car to Norwalk
 dragway
 which is 130 miles from my house and ran it that night with times of =
12.70's
 consistently.  Anymore questions, I be glad to help.  By the way at =
idle
 which is at 1000RPM I pull 15 inches of vacuum so you can run power =
brakes,
 but my car is manual.   Other bits of advice is you can use a 460 Ford
 rear main seal which is same size as olds but is one piece and for the =
pan=20
 gasket, use a 350 olds diesel because it has a steel shim to prevent
 squashing.
 DON'T USE THE MONDELLO CAM BUTTON it just cause premature wear.
 Also the Mondello 7400 roller rockers can be order direct from Jensel =
out of

 the National Dragster at half the cost.
=20
=20
 well here is some info, if you need more just e-mail or call me 313 336 =
8135
 W MACHINES@AOL.COM  (Mark Prince)
 =20

------------------------------

From: JJF97@uno.cc.geneseo.edu
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 14:35:55 -0300
Subject: Resto  Tips  .....

here's a useful tip for the bare metal finishes.....

let's say that you have a part like.... hood hinges that are a bare metal
finish, or coil springs, etc....
 after sand blasting, to prevent rust most people would spray a form of
clear coat to keep it rust free....   many times though, this has a slight
gloss......

Tell ya what.....  spray a double coat of clear, then use a fine steel wool
(after the part dries) to dull the finish....  this leaves a
"protected" bare metal part!

=)

Resto Corner

- --joe ferrero

------------------------------

From: grpruett@vt.edu (Greg Pruett)
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 04:02:36 -0300
Subject: Junkyard HEI and condenser questions 

I'd love to replace the points distributor on the Vista Cruiser with HEI.
Does anyone know what a junkyard HEI distributor will generally run.  What's
the most I should expect to pay?  (I'm in the south, Virginia to be exact)
This is not something I'm going to do immediatly but I will likely get to it
before cold weater.  I'm just short of cash right now.

I don't think I was very clear on my points and condenser problem.  I
replaced the old condenser with a new one and changed the points yesterday.
That was when the engine finally showed some signs of life.  It ran for the
first time since it died on the side of the road.  We though that the
condenser must have been the problem.  Timed the engine by ear since we
didn't have a light, and the car ran great.  As I said before, lotsa power
and no missing.  Just ran smooth like a 350 Olds should.  Took it on a 70
mile (Round trip) highway/town run and the car gradually ran worse until
finnaly it ran downright lousy.  It maintained speed pretty well but would
still miss and sputter now and then.  Under acceleration it sounded more
like a microbus than an Olsmobile.  It was running just like the points were
burned up.  It was dark so I just parked it when I got home and I'm about to
go have a look now.    I guess I'll go ahead and replace the condenser again
if the points are shot since they only cost $2.10.

so now I have a few more questions......

Do condensers just go bad sitting on a shelf in a store and maybe I got a
bad one?

What are the odds of two condensers going bad in under 40 hours?

Can coils short across the windings that connect to the points (I think
they're called the primary windings) and still put out a healthy spark?  

Does anyone need a ziplock baggie full of nuked points and bad
condensers?....Cheap?

Thank you.
Greg Pruett
`72 Vista-Cruiser with a stone-age igntion system.


Insert philosophical and/or amusing phrase here-----------

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 23:09:56 -0300
Subject: Re: Synthetic Trans Lubricants

Todd Morris wrote:
> 
> 
> Shifting into 2nd on my Muncie is quite stubborn, but only when the trans is 
completely cold, like after it has sat
> overnight. My thinking is that some of the synthetic trans lubricants may 
help here.  Anybody had experience with Red Line
> or any of the other trans lubes?
> 
> Todd Morris
> 71 442

Todd
	On another list whicj I subscribe to, (DSM LIST) our cars, which 
are Talons,Laser,Eclipses, we have problems withthe trans not shifting 
smoothly enough, causes a big crunch from 1 to 2. Red Line and BG 
Syncroshift seems to be the most popular brands they swear by. I need to 
switch my trans fluid on my cars and I think I will use Red Line when 
the time comes. I think I have an URL for them, if I find it I will post 
it.
- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 13:06:12 -0300
Subject: Re: Junkyard HEI and condenser questions 

>I don't think I was very clear on my points and condenser problem.  I
>replaced the old condenser with a new one and changed the points yesterday.
>That was when the engine finally showed some signs of life.  It ran for the
>first time since it died on the side of the road.  We thought that the
>condenser must have been the problem.

We here do as well...

>Timed the engine by ear since we
>didn't have a light, and the car ran great.  As I said before, lotsa power
>and no missing.  Just ran smooth like a 350 Olds should.

Okay. But you prolly oughtta splurge on a timing light anyway. Can you
at least borrow one for a day?

>I guess I'll go ahead and replace the condenser again
>if the points are shot since they only cost $2.10.

Okay. Can you find a different place to buy them from? Figure that the
next set you buy from the same joint you got 'em from last time will be
exactly as old...

>Do condensers just go bad sitting on a shelf in a store and maybe I got a
>bad one?

Yes and yes. My source for this is "Cars and Parts" writeup on condensors
about a year or so ago.

>What are the odds of two condensers going bad in under 40 hours?

Well, you're counting your original one finally expiring, are you? You
really only had one bad one right out of the box, not two, if I'm reading
this right.

>Can coils short across the windings that connect to the points (I think
>they're called the primary windings) and still put out a healthy spark?

Uh, I think no. Miiiiiiike...? And besides, I don't think a bad coil can
fry your points the way a bad condensor can.

>Does anyone need a ziplock baggie full of nuked points and bad
>condensers?....Cheap?

Save 'em for your next garage sale. We fanatics will buy _anything_.  :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: DELPROPO@EMUVAX.EMICH.EDU
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 14:29:55 -0300
Subject: 70 engin bay detailing

I am rewoking the engin bay on my 70 Cutlass and need to know what the CORRECT
finish was on the following parts. 1 W-25 hood lock plates(the chrome knobs
twist into them).  2. The top plate on the radiator( has the stickers ect.) the
unit the support the front of the car (streches from fender to fender). 3 coil
color.  If anyone knows the correct finish for these items please let know   
Thanks........
sticker)    2. The w-25 ram air hood attachment brackets the chrome knobs
twist into.   3.  fir wall and front unit the connet the fenders and grill.  3.
the under side of the W-25 Ram hood. 3tsket  ngn

------------------------------

From: eric_b_buckner@non-hp-om.cv.hp.com
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 14:33:19 -0300
Subject: Re:MORE 455

Item Subject: cc:Mail Text
     Chris, When you say *way* lower how much is that? HEI, according to 
     the guy answering the phones. 
     Eric Buckner
     '64 F-85 Deluxe
     Albany, OR

------------------------------

From: DELPROPO@emuvax.emich.edu
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 14:34:50 -0300
Subject: Re: Junkyard HEI and condenser questions 

Don't forget to check the dwell. If it is off it can cause some strange things
to occure. With my car I once set the dwell with a falty meter and the car
would cut out and miss. If you are going to keep the old setup of points ect.
you will need to get dwell meter. The dwell meters are
around 21.00...........pla

------------------------------

From: eda@dl.tc.faa.gov
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 14:46:31 -0300
Subject: Re: moisture 

Greg B. wrote:

> If I had some silica gel crystals I'd put them in the
> interior and trunk to absorb moisture, but I've never collected enough of
> them to do that. 

Try your local hardware store or superstore (e.g., Home Depot, Builder's
Square, or whatever the equivalent in your area.  You should be able to 
get little tubs of white stuff that is designed to reduce dampness, 
mustiness, mildew, etc. in basements and other such areas.  Also, there
are crystals called blue-dry that start out blue, turn pink or clear as they 
absorb moisture, and then can be baked in an oven to turn them blue again.
I don't know where the latter are sold other than head shops; they are used
for storing methamphetamine (at least, that's what my buddy who knows about
these things told me...:)

Ed Atlee			'77 Cutlass Supreme, 350R/THM350
eda@dl.tc.faa.gov		'84 Hurst/Olds, 307(9)/200-4R, 3.73 posi
		R O C K E T	P O W E R E D ! !

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 07:34:20 -0300
Subject: Re: Resto  Tips  ..... 

     Or you could just use a flat clear coat to start with :-)
     
     Flat and satin clear coats are available at your hobby/model store.  
     Probably wouldn't hold up too well on an engine, but on a cooler part 
     like hinges it should work fine.
     
     Tom L.

______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: Resto  Tips  .....
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    8/22/96 9:49 AM

     
Tell ya what.....  spray a double coat of clear, then use a fine steel wool 
(after the part dries) to dull the finish....  this leaves a
"protected" bare metal part!
     
     

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 07:34:17 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: DFL's 

     I dunno about the Dry Film stuff, but what about ceramic coatings?  I 
     read in a performance book that having the pistons, cylinder head 
     chambers and valves coated with a hi-temp ceramic coating is good for 
     10-15% more horsepower.  That seems like a pretty big increase to me.
     
     Anyone here have experience with this?  Do they hold up and not flake 
     off?  How expensive is it?
     
     Tom L.


______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: RE: DFL's
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    8/22/96 9:49 AM


Though about it but never tried it. It seems that the cost involved easily 
outway s the increase in power or so I've been told, anyone else?
     

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 14:55:58 -0300
Subject: Junkyard HEI 

I paid about $30 for mine, then put on new cap and rotor, eventually a
new coil too. Be sure that it's not too worn by checking the gear and 
shaft for sloppiness or out of round movement. Be aware that you'll need
to change the wires too since the terminals for HEI and points are different.
Eventually plugs too. I'm using R46-SX, the factory plugs for a 75 BB olds.

Others may have confirming comments, but from the recent posts it looks liek
SB and BB distributors are the same. Those who have this knowledge please
confirm. 

The only other thing I can think of that might be tricky is if
you have a non-factory manifold. I used to run an Offy which didn't fit with
the HEI because of the #8 intake runner shape at the back of the manifold.
Now I run factory manifold and it's fine.

Hope this helps.
chris fair

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 14:59:41 -0300
Subject: HEI/Radio Noise 

I have a tape deck, amps, etc. which used to buzz like heck due to noise
from the ignition system. Never could get it quiet, particularly at low
volumes (music covered the buzz when turned up). Then I put in the HEI
and it went quiet. A definite win, but I couldn't say whether this was 
due to distributor or the new (I think) suppression wires simultaneously
installed.
cf

------------------------------

From: eric_b_buckner@non-hp-om.cv.hp.com
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 15:04:48 -0300
Subject: Re: 455 into a '64 F-85

Item Subject: 455 into a '64 F-85
     
>Assuming the F-85 already has a 330 V-8 and you are not changing the 
>accessories (e.g. using the late model power steering pump) you don't need 
any 
>of the accessory mounting hardware from the 455.
It's got a Chev 350 (HOLD YOUR FIRE) With a Muncie 4 speed

>As for exhaust, I don't recommend using the restrictive manifolds of the 330 
>V-8 on a 455 but the passenger side will fit OK with no frame inteference.
>The drivers side will interfere with the frame.  Do not cut the frame to
>make it work!!!  I've actually seen this done! Crazy.
Headers definately

>If you do change to the later model power steering pump, add A/C, 
>etc.,then you _do_ need to switch entirely to the set up on the 455 donor.
Don't think I'll worry about PS
     
     
     Thanx go to all for your help!!
     Now about that '74 455 whadya all think....
     Eric Buckner
     '64 F-85 Deluxe
     Albany, OR
     

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 18:06:01 -0300
Subject: Re: Junkyard HEI and condenser questions

Greg Pruett wrote:
> 
> Do condensers just go bad sitting on a shelf in a store and maybe I got 
> a bad one?

They can but it would be unusual.
 
> What are the odds of two condensers going bad in under 40 hours?

Very small.

> Can coils short across the windings that connect to the points (I think
> they're called the primary windings) and still put out a healthy spark?

Yes.  A long shot but if a few primary winding shorted you'd increase the 
"turns ratio" (primary to secondary ratio) and could INCREASE the spark.

> Does anyone need a ziplock baggie full of nuked points and bad
> condensers?....Cheap?

No.  But thank you for asking.

Andy, does this guy have a ballast resistor in the coil primary circuit? 
If that's shorted, wouldn't that supply full juice to (and burn) the 
points?  The coils are acutally designed for less than 12v (13.8v) in 
normal operation but the ballast is bypassed during starting for better 
spark?  Eh?

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 14:27:42 -0300
Subject: Re: Junkyard HEI and condenser questions 

>Andy, does this guy have a ballast resistor in the coil primary circuit?

Not that I recall. Unfortunately our '72 is long gone.
 
>If that's shorted, wouldn't that supply full juice to (and burn) the 
>points?  The coils are acutally designed for less than 12v (13.8v) in 
>normal operation but the ballast is bypassed during starting for better 
>spark?  Eh?

Well, on Chryslers, yes. And if the ballast resistor burns out, the car
will fire during bypass (i.e. cranking), then die when the key is released,
which is something I always knew as a distinctly MoPar problem. This was
why your more-experienced MoPar owners always had a spare resistor in the
glove box, or at least a paper clip to jumper the bad resistor until they
could get down the road to the gas station.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Nick DiGiovanni <ndigiova@direct.ca>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 14:45:35 -0300
Subject: Re: Decals (and a $ saving resto-tip) 

At 12:37 PM 8/22/96 -0300, you wrote:

>I've been buying Mark's stuff for about 15 years.  He wasn't at the Atlanta
>meet this year.  Too bad.  I planned on bitching about the stock he prints
>his labels on.  He uses very thin plain paper whereas most of the factory
>labels are on a plasticized paper stock.  My original labels lasted ~20
>years, the replacements much less.  The engine tune up label I bought for our
>SX last year at Greensboro at the OCA meet there lasted, like the previous
>one, about 2 months.  It then starts to shrivel up and basically
>disintegrate.
>
>There are two solutions.  One, go to a crafts store and purchase the
>"Magnetic Canvas" vinyl material they sell.  It's the same stuff those
>magnetic business cards on your refrigerator are made of.  A 5" X 8" piece
>goes for $1.59 at White Rose here in Florida.
>
>Apply your new label to this stuff, cut it to size and place it where ever it
>is supposed to go.  Only use it when you are showing or having the car judged
>and the labels will last forever.  

>Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
>'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
>Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL
>U.S. FDA Regulatory Affairs   (407)365-6385

There is also another method which many of our club members and I use:

After applying the decal, mask tape around the decal (not on the decal) at
about 1/8" around the edges.  This should leave 1/8" paint all around the
decal.  Then spray or brush on a clear laquer over the decal and the 1/8"
area of paint.  Remove the masking tape.  That's it.  This will produce a
seal around the decal so that water and oil etc. don't go through or get
under the decal and destroy it.  It is also very difficult to see the laquer
when done.  This method works great and lasts a long long time.



Nick DiGiovanni
Port Coquitlam, B.C.
1970 4-4-2 - "Snarls Softly and Carries a Big Kick"

------------------------------

From: eric_b_buckner@non-hp-om.cv.hp.com
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 15:56:09 -0300
Subject: Re: moisture

     
Greg B. wrote:

> If I had some silica gel crystals I'd put them in the
> interior and trunk to absorb moisture, but I've never collected enough of > 
them to do that. 
Here, where I work, I unpack about 40k of silicon wafers a week. 4 carriers of 
25 wafers per box. Now each carrier has a pack of moisture absorbant beads. 
Now 
lets see 40k/100 X 4 = 1600 BAGS A WEEK. Free. You pay shipping and I'll box 
em 
up and ship em out. Each bag is about the size of a large (biker) wallet. How 
many do you want?
     Eric Buckner
     '64 F-85 Deluxe
     Albany, OR

------------------------------

From: eric_b_buckner@non-hp-om.cv.hp.com
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 16:16:14 -0300
Subject: Re: More 455

     What part of the country are you in?  Someone near your area might 
     have a lead on one if you let us know where you are.
     
     Tom.
     
     I'm in Albany, OR. Middle of the Willamette Valley 60 miles south of 
     Portland and 45 miles North of Eugene.
     Eric Buckner
     '64 F-85 Deluxe
     Albany, OR

     
     
     

------------------------------

From: DELPROPO@EMUVAX.EMICH.EDU
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 16:22:16 -0300
Subject: Restoration Information Needed

Could someone please tell me if the heater bypass hose on the 70 350 was
painted the engin color, and if they were metal and not rubber from the
factory?

------------------------------

From: JJF97@uno.cc.geneseo.edu
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 17:24:50 -0300
Subject: I need your help and support....

i have a 48 oldsmobile, and i just had the engine rebuilt. parts were
$1000, from kanter auto... and labor was $1500 from a machine shop / 
proto type builder for GM, briggs and stratton, and harley davison.

The engine was lubed and the oil pump was primed prior to starting....
but as soon as the engine was started, we heard a clicking that sounded like
valves.  I ask the machinest what it was.... he looked... and said the engine
(that put on appxoximate 30 miles on the engine) had wear of 60,000
in the valve guides.  Besides being my problem....
who do i go back on?  kanter, the machineist, and should i have to pay more to
get this fixed?

please....  any re: is helpful.  thanks.

- --joe ferrero (the resto tip guy)

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 02:05:03 -0300
Subject: Re: I need your help and support....

Joe,
	first determine whatthe problem really is. Is it the valves or 
is it more serious internal engine part. Why don't you take the head off 
and check yourself. Tipically, if the sound is coming from the valves 
it'e either the seat is worn or the valve is bent or the valve is worn. 
Very visible. If the guides are worn you will see that too. These fixes 
are not usually that expensive but part availability maybe a concern for 
your '48. Have the head check by another machinist to see if they were 
inserted properly, if not you have something to go by. If they were then 
get the machinist to help back up the claim that the part is no good and 
then get kanter to replace the part, as for labour your own your own.
- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 09:55:43 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: More 455 

     Well, I know of one in Spokane sitting in a pull-your-part yard in a 
     '69 d88.  455 w/ C heads.  A bit far away for an engine, but better 
     than the east coast.
     
     Tom.


______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: Re: More 455
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    8/22/96 12:33 PM


     What part of the country are you in?  Someone near your area might 
     have a lead on one if you let us know where you are.
     
     Tom.
     
     I'm in Albany, OR. Middle of the Willamette Valley 60 miles south of 
     Portland and 45 miles North of Eugene.
     Eric Buckner
     '64 F-85 Deluxe
     Albany, OR
     
     
     
     
     

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 09:34:47 -0300
Subject: Re: Resto Tips .....

At 11:14 PM 8/21/96 -0300, you wrote:
Merry Oldsmobile tape - recording of an Olds reel to
>reel tape, plays 26 different versions of In My Merry Oldsmobile - you'll be
>singing it in your sleep.
>
>Paul
 I'd be interested in that...how can I get a copy??
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 17:12:35 -0300
Subject: Re: Front End, Differential(2 & 3 series) 

no sir, I launch my original 3:23 rear posi but replaced it with a 2:56
carrier
out of a 72 cutlass supreme. I had to use the spacer plate from Moroso 
with the 4:10 gear.  If i had the 2:73 carrier it would not have been
necessary.
3 series and 4 series carriers are for the 12 bolt chevys.  So yes you can
use
the 2 and 3 series carriers from 71 to 80 with the 8.5 carriers.



W MACHINES

------------------------------

From: brett@actel.com
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 20:31:32 -0300
Subject: Silica Gel Request 

     To: Eric Buckner
     
        I am interested in some of the silica gel bags.  Can I talk you 
     into sending me some?  If so, please contact me to discuss the 
     logistics of shipping these (maybe I could send you money for shipping 
     up front instead of COD?)
     
     Brett Chaveriat                brett@actel.com
     Arlington Hts, IL
     '72 Cutlass Supreme convt 
     
     
______________________________ Forward Header 
__________________________________
Subject: Re: moisture
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at SMTPlink-Actel 
Date:    8/22/96 12:40 PM
     
     
     
Greg B. wrote:
     
> If I had some silica gel crystals I'd put them in the
> interior and trunk to absorb moisture, but I've never collected enough of > 
them to do that. 
Here, where I work, I unpack about 40k of silicon wafers a week. 4 carriers of 
25 wafers per box. Now each carrier has a pack of moisture absorbant beads. 
Now 
lets see 40k/100 X 4 = 1600 BAGS A WEEK. Free. You pay shipping and I'll box 
em 
up and ship em out. Each bag is about the size of a large (biker) wallet. How 
many do you want?
     Eric Buckner
     '64 F-85 Deluxe
     Albany, OR
     
     
     
     

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 10:15:40 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds' on the big screen

At 06:04 AM 8/22/96 -0300, you wrote:

>     Watched "Milk Money" on HBO today.  Had a really clean Cutlass
>Convertible in it.  The mechanic work on it was rather far fetched,

Heh, how'd you like that guy cutting open the gas tank with a torch and
finding a wad of money in it.  Far fetched is right!
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 10:23:16 -0300
Subject: Rear end  Was: The Rockit's back 

At 06:04 AM 8/22/96 -0300, you wrote:
>I've still got the
>3.23 posi in there for the curious ones.  

I've been considering swapping my 2.?? open rear for probably a 3.23 posi.
Just wondering what kind of rpm's your turning at, oh, 65 or 70 mph (highway
speeds).  That is the only concern I have (should I have more?), because I
drive my car every day about 12 miles on the interstate.
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Todd Morris <tmorris@bt1dc18e.bet.ibm.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 19:06:26 -0300
Subject: Exhaust Noise Level 

 
So I just get off the phone with an exhaust shop (AA Speed Shop) recommended 
by kind folks 
on this list.  The guy sounded quite competent and quoted $450 for dual 2 
1/2", aluminized, 
2 chamber flowmasters, and H pipe included, custom bent.  The general feeling 
of this list 
was that 2 chamber flowmasters are just too loud.  However, the shop guy said 
they're not  
loud at all if used with regular xmans (not headers) and an H pipe.  Does 
Xmans and an H pipe really make that much difference???   He even went so far 
as to say that 
3 chambers with xmans and H pipe are TOO quiet.  I'm skeptical.....thoughts?? 
 
Todd Morris 
71 442

------------------------------

From: eric_b_buckner@non-hp-om.cv.hp.com
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 18:30:41 -0300
Subject: Silica Gell Bags

Item Subject: cc:Mail Text
     O.K. Here's the low down;
     20 bags of this stuff weighs in at 3 pounds. 
     I'd be more than happy to box them up and ship them anywhere. All for 
     the good of the great Oldsmobile. 
     Eric Buckner
     '64 F-85 Deluxe
     Albany, OR

If you want to contact me personally 
E-mail    Eric B. Buckner@Non-HP.om.cv.hp.com

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 18:26:07 -0300
Subject: RE: Re[2]: DFL's

Well I presumed coatings to encompass all coatings when I wrote my last =
letter, but just to recap these coatings are VERY expensive for the =
gains. Unless you were a proffesional racer or had a cheap supply I'd =
say forget about them.

- ----------
From: 	Tom Lentz[SMTP:tlentz@teknon.com]
Sent: 	Thursday, August 22, 1996 6:34 AM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Re[2]: DFL's


     I dunno about the Dry Film stuff, but what about ceramic coatings?  =
I=20
     read in a performance book that having the pistons, cylinder head=20
     chambers and valves coated with a hi-temp ceramic coating is good =
for=20
     10-15% more horsepower.  That seems like a pretty big increase to =
me.
    =20
     Anyone here have experience with this?  Do they hold up and not =
flake=20
     off?  How expensive is it?
    =20
     Tom L.


______________________________ Reply Separator =
_________________________________
Subject: RE: DFL's
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    8/22/96 9:49 AM


Though about it but never tried it. It seems that the cost involved =
easily=20
outway s the increase in power or so I've been told, anyone else?
    =20

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #276
********************************
 
