To:	oldsmobile-digest @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET @ ABTLAB
Date:	09/11/96 02:31:28 AM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #296


oldsmobile-digest       Wednesday, 11 September 1996    Volume 01 : Number 296


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 16:49:56 -0300
Subject: Autronic Eye 

Many thanks for the tips on this funky device. Mebbe one day I'll fix
it, but for now I"m pretty happy with the footswitch as these are now
turn signal switches on the new cars. 

So much information in this group!
cf

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 08:04:30 -0300
Subject: Re: Ignition switch for Ninety Eight 1964 (4DHT Holiday Sports Sedan)

At 03:41 AM 9/10/96 -0300, you wrote:
>I 
>think that the guy who changed the headlight bulps burned this fuse,
because it was 
>replaced with a much more tolerable BOLT. (yikes).


Heh, at least he didn't use a .22 caliber bullet...
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 08:20:51 -0300
Subject: Re: Ignition switch for Ninety Eight 1964 (4DHT Holiday Sports Sedan)

At 02:18 PM 9/10/96 -0300, you wrote:

>Okay. Any volunteers want to go to the local Trak Auto and buy Esko
>a switch? I kind of think it'll be cheaper for one of us to do that
>and drop it in the mail to him than for him to try and order it from
>his end...?

Well, I was going to, but I've checked at all the auto parts places around
town here (there's five or six different ones), and nobody can even get one.
They can get the key & tumbler part, but not the switch.  Anybody else try??
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: "Mike Coccagna" <mikec@oz.kis.net>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 18:14:36 -0300
Subject: List related, not Olds related

As I peruse the latest version of the Olds List Digest, I have 
noticed I did not receive some of the messages contained in the 
Digest as individual messages.  

Any other dual-subscribers have a simular discovery?

Mike
'91 W-40 Quad442 (1 of 1360)

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 16:22:13 -0300
Subject: Re: Ignition switch for Ninety Eight 1964 (4DHT Holiday Sports Sedan) 

>Well, I was going to, but I've checked at all the auto parts places around
>town here (there's five or six different ones), and nobody can even get one.
>They can get the key & tumbler part, but not the switch.  Anybody else try??

Jsut to clarify (I feel like getting out and about this evening anyway),
this would be a standard 1964 GM dash-mounted switch, right? Usually a
one-piece deal? Or the lock assembly... uh... screws to the front of the
switch portion, then you stick it all in the dash... or...? I get the
impression there are _not_ going to be 38 different variations on this
switch design, right?

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Esko Ilola <esko.ilola@Tele.telebox.fi>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 03:55:34 -0300
Subject: RE: Wiper problems

The wiper gear box has a built-in switch that shuts down the motor when the 
wipers 
are in a good position to stop. Some misoperation of this switch could cause 
the 
symptoms which you described.
- -- 
**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi           *
* X400  G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
* Oldsmobile 98  1964  4D HT                 *
**********************************************

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 20:38:50 -0300
Subject: Re: Autronic Eye & tubes

Dave Paulison wrote:
> 
> There's the everlasting debate going in the audiophile world about
> digital vs. analog, and some components use tubes still.

Anybody interested in that discussion and how it _relates_ to the sound 
system in your _Olds_?

> I think the (former) Soviet Union is a big producer of vacuum tubes

Most of them.  You can even buy a Russian built clone of a Marshall 
guitar amp called a "Sovtek".

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 09:01:44 -0300
Subject: Alternator hookup

I've got a question about the hookup of my externally regulated alternator.
First, some background.  I've replaced it twice (thank God for lifetime
warranties!), and my GEN light glows (still).  I've checked all connections,
grounds, etc, etc, and cleaned most of the connectors.  The light glows at a
pretty consistent dimness, though sometimes if I rev the engine (in park or
neutral), as soon as I take my foot off the gas, the light will brighten for
a second, then become dim again, and remain so.  My question involves the
wire connections at the alternator.  There is a small plastic connector with
two wires in it, one blue, the other black.  The connector has been replaced
at some time, and the original wires in the car's wiring harness are blue
and white.  When it was replaced, the blue wire (of the connector) was
soldered to the white wire of the harness, and the black of the connector
was soldered to the blue of the harness.  Like this:

              ||     ||
     blue---> ||     || <---white (car's harness) 
              ||     ||     
              {}     {} <---solder joint 
              ||     ||
    black---> ||     || <---blue (new connector)
              ||     ||

The blue wire from the car's original harness (black on the new connector)
is connected to the F terminal on the alternator, and the white from the
car's harness (blue on new connector) goes to the R terminal on the
alternator.  Does the connection of these wires make a difference in
alternator operation?  Could it make my GEN light glow if hooked up
incorrectly?  Hope this is understandable..

Thanks for the help!
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 10:41:21 -0300
Subject: Re: List related, not Olds related 

     Well, I'm not a dual subscriber, but I have noticed that one message I 
     sent yesterday and two that I've sent today haven't made it back to me 
     yet.  The list also seems stragely quiet these past two days.


______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: List related, not Olds related
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    9/10/96 1:34 PM


As I peruse the latest version of the Olds List Digest, I have 
noticed I did not receive some of the messages contained in the 
Digest as individual messages.  
     
Any other dual-subscribers have a simular discovery?
     
Mike
'91 W-40 Quad442 (1 of 1360)
     
     

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 16:45:35 -0300
Subject: Re: List related, not Olds related 

>As I peruse the latest version of the Olds List Digest, I have 
>noticed I did not receive some of the messages contained in the 
>Digest as individual messages.  
>
>Any other dual-subscribers have a similar discovery?

I'm not a dual subscriber but _did_ notice that some messages I sent
in the past day or so did not appear, such as the one about in-flight
refueling of a '74 Ninety-Eight, so I guess the answer to your question
is Yes. Greg...?

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 20:59:21 -0300
Subject: Re: List related, not Olds related

> Any other dual-subscribers have a simular discovery?

Yeah, Andy Green mentioned it to me a little while ago.  Seems 
the system is spazzing a bit.  Greg B is aware of the problem.

The 66 Toro and Mike (1 of 1)


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 18:09:16 -0300
Subject: Autronic eye

> The mid 60's Buick/Olds/Caddilac system had tubes in the amplifier. 
> When I tested the one I have before installation, I couldn't get the 
> amplifier to work. Haven't a clue where to get such tubes . . . 

Music shops sometimes stock tubes.  Most musicians perfer the
sound of a tube amp over solid state amps, so they create a market
for the tubes.  

Another source is old ham radio shops.  Lots of the ham's have 
equipment built before transistors were available.  They have the
ham radio equivalent of junk yards just full of stuff, plus
they're almost always really nice people.

The last source I can think of, and probably the least likely to work 
out, would be _old_ TV replair shops.  Look for ones that have been 
in busineess (in the same place) for at least 50 years.  It's probably
like trying to find asbestos brake shoes, but you might hit a jackpot.


> Anyone know if I could connect the 66 photo tube to a solid state 
> amplifier?

In "theory" it would be possible, but you'd need the full spec's for
the photo tube and a degree in Electrical Eng. :)  

I would say that if you're going out for the replacement anyway, 
go full-tilt and replace the entire system with a solid state unit 
(fit in to look original of course).  Even if you get the tubes
replaced and get the unit working, the tubes will "wear" out again
before too long.  I think the avarage service life of a tube is
around 1000 hours.  I would only put up with this in a 100 point 
"fresh off the showroom floor" restore, and maybe not even then.


> Anyway that's the story of the Autronic eye. Hope this is of 
> interest to you all.

I, for one, didn't know what the heck it was.  Thanks for the
answer, and thanks to whoever asked the question.


- - Travis and the 69 olds 98 convertible aka "Tiny"

- --
Travis McWaters                           Transmission Products Division
tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com               DSC Communications Corporation

------------------------------

From: "Mike Coccagna" <mikec@oz.kis.net>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 19:03:14 -0300
Subject: Re: List related, not Olds related

On 10 Sep 96 at 20:59, Mike Frederick wrote:

> system is spazzing a bit.  Greg B is aware of the problem.

Thanks!  And a BIG THANKS TO GREG!  (sometimes we may forget the 
little things he has to deal with)

> The 66 Toro and Mike (1 of 1)

And I'm sure many sighs of relief are heard from that one! ;->

Mike
'91 W-40 Quad442 (one of 1,360, but who's complaining!)

------------------------------

From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 17:27:00 -0300
Subject: RE: List related, not Olds related

>Subject: List related, not Olds related
>Date: Tuesday, September 10, 1996 6:14PM

>As I peruse the latest version of the Olds List Digest, I have
>noticed I did not receive some of the messages contained in the
>Digest as individual messages.
>Any other dual-subscribers have a simular discovery?

I sent a message titled "Car Show" yesterday dated Monday, September 09, 
1996 5:33PM, that never seemed to register.  It was about a Olds car show I 
was at Sunday.  Anyone get it?

Jeff Zeilmann
SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
'68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible

------------------------------

From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 18:32:00 -0300
Subject: Re: List related, not Olds related

I second that thank you to Greg!
<<<<<APPLAUSE>>>>>>

Jeff Zeilmann
SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
'68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible

 ----------
From: oldsmobile
Subject: Re: List related, not Olds related
Date: Tuesday, September 10, 1996 7:03PM

On 10 Sep 96 at 20:59, Mike Frederick wrote:

> system is spazzing a bit.  Greg B is aware of the problem.

Thanks!  And a BIG THANKS TO GREG!  (sometimes we may forget the
little things he has to deal with)

> The 66 Toro and Mike (1 of 1)

And I'm sure many sighs of relief are heard from that one! ;->

Mike
'91 W-40 Quad442 (one of 1,360, but who's complaining!)

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 21:50:35 -0300
Subject: Re: List related, not Olds related

> > The 66 Toro and Mike (1 of 1)
> 
> And I'm sure many sighs of relief are heard from that one! ;->

No doubt.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Brad Baker <bradbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 19:33:42 -0300
Subject: Re: Another Olds Movie Car Sighting -Reply

At 11:57 09/08/1996 +0000, you wrote:
>Brad, 
>
>The difference depends on the year. On your '68 (and in '69 too), the 
>Supreme was a dolled up Cutlass with special exterior trim and paint, a 
>nicer interior, 4-barrel carb, and that's about it.  {snip}
>
>In '70 through '72, the Supreme was a different body style, at least for 
>the 2-door model. It was Olds' answer to the Grand Prix and Monte Carlo 
>and had a notchback 2-door body style, very nice looking. Also had the 
>upgraded interior, etc., and special trim outside.
>
>Common misconception: a Cutlass "S" is not a Supreme. The "S" was Olds' 
>mainstream model most of those years. In '68 they advertised it as sort 
>of the poor boy's 4-4-2, sporty but practical, etc. In truth it was their 
>bread-and-butter 2-door model, a step above the base F-85 model.  {snip}
>
>Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
>
 Greg,
Thanks once again for the info.Seems correct because I dont have any silver
paint or chrome door strips.I dont have any carpet on the door panels
either.Was that something on the Supreme or maybe just an option?  Thanks
again...

Brad (0-0||||0-0)

------------------------------

From: Brad Baker <bradbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 19:33:45 -0300
Subject: Re: Wiper Problems

At 13:56 09/09/1996 +0000, you wrote:
>Hello Olds Owners,
>
>I am having problems with the wipers on my '71 Cutlass Convertible.
>
>Ever since I've owned the car (1 year), the wipers would work fine, but
wouldn't 
>shut off all the time.  I would usually just let them run a while, then they 
>would shut off when I put the switch in the "off" position.  Now they won't
shut 
>off at all.  I found a switch out of another '71 that was demonstrated to
me to 
>be good.  I installed it and it does the same thing.  Here is the catch.
When I 
>remove the switch and just let it dangle, not touching any metal (not
grounded), 
>it works fine!  If I reinstall it, the problem reappears.  Here's an 
>observation...there is a loose orange wire with a female plug on it that 
comes 
>from the same bundle as the wire (also orange) that attaches to the courtesy 
>light under the steering wheel.  Should this wire be attached to something?
All 
>other electrical systems on the car work fine, although the blinkers blink
very 
>slowly and the headlights are not all that bright.  
>
>Any ideas?
>
>Thanks,
>Robert Iles
>'71 Cutlass Convertible
>
>
Robert,
I'm not sure about the wiper switch problem,but you may want to double check
for any shorts in the wires when the switch is in the dash. I also have that
orange wire under my dash ('68 Cutlass S Convt) and when I plugged it into
what I thought was it's mate wire,the GEN light stayed on and killed my
battery.I'm not sure what that wire is for,but I would say to leave it alone
until you (we) find out what it is for.

Brad (0-0||||0-0)

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 16:20:41 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: barns, fields for cars 

Greg, I know what you mean.  I lived in an apartment for three years, 
before I really got into cars.  I know in the US that this is still the 
time to buy if you are anywhere close to affording a house.  I predict the 
rates staying low or not rising much (and the same for home sales) this 
summer means lower this fall and winter.  Probably stay this way til 
election day.

When Realtors say "buy as much house as you can afford", change that 
slightly to "you absolutely need a basement, and at least a 2.5 car garage 
with a nicely pitched roof for loft storage".  Check the depth of the 
garage also since it's always nice to put a workbench in front of the cars 
and still have a good amount of space, fore and aft.

Acreage for a workshop/barn has got to be the greatest!  Almost bought a 
house with a super oversize attached heated garage.  Could have stored 4 
cars easily, plus it had a huge loft.  Aarrg!  Well, later life changing 
events showed why that wasn't the right house.

My friends are always kidding me about the amount of car parts at my house 
with stuff like "what's taking up all the space in the basement and 
garage?".  But so far, I haven't gotten to the point of one of Jeff 
Foxworthy's lines: "You might be a redneck if your wife has ever asked you 
'Honey could you remove this transmission from the bathtub?' ".  I just 
about died over that one!

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!

- -------------
Well, I wish i had a barn. Or even a garage, or a driveway. I live in a 
big apartment complex in the middle of the city. Both my cars live in the 
underground garage. The upside: they don't get exposed to the weather and 
can stay inside when it's nasty. The downside: you can't do a whole lot 
to them in there. I'm in one end of the place so I can manage an oil 
change or whatever without drawing too much attention, but anything else 
is pretty much prohibited. Not easy to do a resto in an apartment 
either... though the bathtub sometimes makes a nice parts washer... :)

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 18:22:20 -0300
Subject: Olds For Sale

>From the Sunday Tampa Tribune:

	"OLDS 1968 Cutlass Conv. new
	 top, new brakes, Runs great!
	 $2700 OBO  813-661-2216"

	"OLDS 1972 Cutlass Conv. red,
	 75% restored, new top, runs
	 good. $6000  813-645-3917"


The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 15:34:09 -0300
Subject: RE: barns, fields for cars 

>BTW, driving back and forth 160 miles a day in a 74 Ninety-Eight, I might
>as well tow along a fuel tanker.

Back in the days of steam engines, they devised a method for refilling
the engine with more water while the train was in motion, saving a lot of
time -- basically in-flight refueling. It was simply a very long trough
down the track in between the rails, full of water, and as the engine
passed over it they simply lowered a chute into the water, and the water
came flying up the chute into the tender at 60 mph or so. A _real_ fast
fillup.

So anyway, all you need is a similar setup for your big car, and a very
cooperative highway department that will fill a trench with premium
for you. For night time visibility, they could set it on fire, too.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: turley@symplex.com (Mike Turley)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 17:05:13 -0300
Subject: Re: VIN#'s 

> Does anyone know of a system to find out what the VIN means for my 66
> Dynamic 88?  I don't have the time to  go look in books so any kind of
> help will be appreciated.
> 
> Tom Wright 66 Dynamic 88 "The Beast" 

Tom,

Try Oldsmobile History Center 7-11 AM Eastern Time.
(517) 885-1502.  They will decode VIN# over the phone.
And perhaps offer some interesting literature on your '66.

Mike Turley
turley@symplex.com

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 17:04:00 -0300
Subject: Re: 68 442...should I buy it?

>He's putting them in his barn like all of us do.  Don't they have barns 
>in Chicago?

Well, no, they have garages, so it's a bit more compact but the principle
is the same. As I ride home to the 'burbs on the train I can look out the
window at row after row of garages, and every now and then there's an
open one with the end of some interesting car sticking out.

>Where did Mrs. Murphy keep her cow?

In a stable, not a garage, along with her favorite spotted horse. 
Unfortunately the cow and the spotted horse did not get along, fighting
frequently, and one day the cow kicked the rear end of her spotted...

(wait for it...)

pinto, which burst into flames, and the rest is history...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 18:36:31 -0300
Subject: Re: Transmissions, Olds & non-Olds

> My uncle said I could remove the convertor cover, and drill & tap a hole in
> the side, and then plug it with a threaded plug.  Kinda like a drain plug
> for the convertor.  A neat idea, but has anybody ever done it?  Does it
> work?  Where would you drill the hole?  

	The dual-coupling 4 speed hydramatic in my '60 actually came from 
the factory with a plug in the converter for just this purpose.  It's 
kind of weird though.  It's made from this *really* soft metal, and the 
shop manual even warns never to use a 12 point socket to remove it, only 
a 6 point, since it would strip really easily.  The bottem of the 
bell-housing (it's not really like a regular bell-housing, but I'll call 
it that for lack of a better word) even has a little door covering the 
bottem that can be removed to access the plug when you want to change 
fluid.  I guess it saves you the time it takes to remove the bottem half 
of the bell-housing, but I lost the little cover for it :(


	And if there is anybody out there planning to change the fluid in 
one of these dual-coupling units, the easiest way to drain the tranny is 
to remove the fill tube.  There is a huge fitting on the bottem, and it 
sits in about the right spot to get almost all of the old fluid out.  
(I think the manual suggests this method if you're not removing the pan)

 
	Anyway, good luck!



				Scott
			1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 18:36:07 -0300
Subject: 66 toros

Went yarding today and there were two 66 toronados there. Kind of strange to 
see 
two in one yard. One still has the cut out bumper. Its a good core. Is anybody 
looking for parts off of these cars? If so, please Email me at my address.

Art Fuller
mefco@sprynet.com

------------------------------

From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 18:53:01 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile Ninety Eights????????

> I have been subscribing for a week or so and I don't seem to run into much 
talk
> about the bigger beasts. namely the Ninety Eights. Am I the only one out
> there with a love for the big comfortable road hogs? Yes, they are a bit
> larger and not as quick as a 442 or 68-70 Toro W-34 or GT, but surely some
> one must love Oldsmobiles "cadillac",

	Welcome to the list!

	As someone else mentioned, there are lots of 88/98 nuts here, but we 
tend to be a little more low key than a lot of the group.  I've been on 
the list for close to two years (maybe more, I forget) now, but 
personaly, have been kind of quiet simply because I've been super busey, so I 
really 
have'nt had a whole lot of time to work on either my car or the 
computer.  But, you're not alone!  
	
	At any rate, I have a 1960 Olds 98 two door hardtop that I'm 
restoring.  I bought it from a local junkyard shortly after they bought 
it at the local sheriffs' auction of abandoned vehicles.  It was a basket 
case too.  I've talked to the last owner, and aparently it sat in a field 
for some 12 years rotting away, with mice living in the engine 
compartment (boy, that was a fun mess to clean up!).  Anyway, at this 
point, I've got the engine rebuilt, and nicely detailed (still looking 
for an original air cleaner, though.  The two I found in the back 
seat don't seem to fit).  All of the front sheet metal is 
off until I get around to the bodywork, and can afford to get it 
painted.  Interior is also gutted, so I can repair the holes rusted in 
the floor.  It need a new dashpad, seat upholestry, headliner, etc, but 
all the interior goodies are still there and in good shape.  I just 
love that Wonderbar with the floor mounted seek button!  Power windows 
too!

	It's going to be a while before it's done, but it's getting there 
(nobody believes me that I'll have it finished before the end of the 
decade, if at all, but I have faith.)  The only thing really slowing me 
is a lack of $$.  

	But, once again, welcome to the list!  Theres never a dull moment.
	
				Scott
			1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98  

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 21:46:23 -0300
Subject: Re: Autronic eye

Dave Paulison wrote:
> 
> >Like the autronic eye (headlight kickdown,
> 
> What is an autronic eye, and what does it do??

Senses oncoming headlights and dims your hi-beams.

The 66 Toro and Mike

- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 13:40:25 -0300
Subject: Cutlass 'S' or Supreme? (Was: Re: Another Olds Movie Car  

	       Sighting -Reply)

>>> <mefco@sprynet.com> 09/07/96 05:55pm >>>
>The difference between an S and a Supreme is 6 letters and a body
>style.

Specifically (to my knowledge), the Supreme is the "luxury" model, I
guess you could say.  It came with most of the fancy stuff standard,
while on other models it would prolly have been an option that you had to
pay more for.  The Cutlass 'S' was the sport edition (correct me if I'm
wrong).  It was the fast-back coupe that prolly had a more powerful
engine.  It was prolly like midway between a Supreme and a 442.  The
two cars are identical from the front bumper to the back of the doors (?),
but from there, the Supreme drops off sharply with squarish rear quarter
windows, while the 'S' slopes gently with more triangular rear quarter
windows.  Also, I believe the Supreme was available in 4-door, whilst
the 'S' and all other fastback coupes that I've ever seen were 2-door
only.  442's (and w-31's, for that matter), to my knowledge, could be had
with either body style in '72.  That's all I know...

- -Blaine
'72 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 19:48:14 -0300
Subject: Re: Trans fluid change

Todd,
I may be as in the dark as you, but I don't ever remember changing fluid in a 
standard trans. Its kind of like the rear end, you take the plug out and stick 
your little finder in to see if there's fluid inside. Usually runs out the 
hole 
when you take the plug out.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: sbento@mecn.mass.edu
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 20:18:15 -0300
Subject: Re: Buick/Olds

On Mon, 9 Sep 1996, Mike Hall wrote:

> Jeramy Goble writes:
> >Sorry but my 460 "Police Cruiser" Mustang could take any of yer 
> >"old"smobiles...  heehee
> 
> Hmmmm, that's funny, I haven't met a Rustang yet that I haven't 
> beaten...BADLY!
> 
> >(Son of a Toronado owner)...Haha
> 
> It seems that wisdom, intelligence and good taste ended with good ole' 
> Dad...
> 
> 
> Michael R. Hall                                  Ortonville, Michigan
> E-Mail: mikehal1@ix.netcom.com                   OCA #17903
> The Oldsmobile Stable:    
>      1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S, 380 horses of pure Mondello fun...
>      1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm, the classy one...
> 


I have been going to the local track for about 8 years and I have beaten 
more than a handful of Oldsmobiles with my Fords (Mustang and recently 
sold Pinto). But on the other hand I have beaten my fair share of Fords 
with my Olds. 

So I guess that makes them equal???? :)

Steve
71 Cutlass S 455
93 Mustang LX 5.0

------------------------------

From: jblair@exis.net (John T. Blair)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 20:09:39 -0300
Subject: Re: Trouble with wiring harness 

At 09:06 AM 9/9/96 -0300, oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca wrote:


> Last thursday me and my wife were driving our 98 to home. During
> the drive we noticed a smell of burning wire coming in. We 
> supposed that the smell was coming from the nasty looking Lada 
> driving in front of us.

Esko

  Sound like you were pretty lucky.  Not to mention had a lot of
fun rebuilding the harness.  Great job!

John
John T. Blair  WA4OHZ          email:  jblair@exis.net
Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (757) 495-8229

48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget  65 Morgan 4/4 Series V
     75 Bricklin SV1   77 Spitfire

The one with the most toys, wins!

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 21:21:24 -0300
Subject: Re: '64 Master Cylinder

> >Well, I found the leak. Brake fluid was seeping from where the rod from 
> >the pedal goes though the firewall! Looks like it's time for a new master 
> >cylinder. Two questions:
> >
> >1. Anyone ever converted a '64-'66 A-body from a single to a dual master 
> >cylinder? What's involved? I like the idea of the extra safety. The car 
> >has manual drum brakes, BTW.


Greg,

I didn't actually do it, but I looked into it once for my '64 Jetstar 88, 
which had drum brakes all around and a single master cylinder.  The car had 
power brakes.

Classic Auto Restorer had a long article in the March '96 issue about 
converting front drum brakes to discs, and they talked a bit about 
converting your single system to a modern dual one.  There is a company 
mentioned in the article that specializes in manufacturing kits to 
convert brake systems in just the fashion you seem to need.  

The company is   Master Power Brakes, Inc.
		 43 Rolling Woods Road
		 Mooresville, NC  28115
		 (704) 664-8866


I called them about a kit for my '64 Jetstar, and they had one, for a 
mere $700.  My brakes worked ok, so I never went for it, but it might be 
worth a call to find out what they'd have for your car.  Maybe if you 
just went for the dual master cylinder but left the front drums it would 
be less.  On the other hand, if I'm going to go through the trouble of 
making the switch, might as well go all the way...


Dan Gulino

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 23:16:39 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile ID Book 

In a message dated 96-09-09 00:45:05 EDT, you write:

<< OK.  You'll need a fixed font to read this correctly.
 
 ST73 3BN57LAN351161     BDY
 TR  326      81  A      PNT
   12B A65
 
 TIA.  Let me know what you come up with.
  >>

Well, lets see.  ST73 means its a Series Type 73 (1973).
3BN57 means its a (3) Olds, (B) B body, (N) Delta 88 Royale, (57) Hardtop
Coupe
LAN means it was built in Lansing (the best ones were)
351161 is the sequence number for the body shell
TR 326 is the trim #. This number doesn't match any of the numbers I have in
the sales books.  All my numbers are 2 digits.  I think the key # here is the
6.  I show a code 16 Beige all Morocceen (vinyl) trim. The 1 designates the
vinyl, the 6  is the beige color.  This was for ordering purposes only.  Your
326 code is probably what designates a beige vinyl seat for a Royale Coupe,
as opposed to a beige vinyl seat for a Custom Cruiser or a Ninety Eight or a
plain Delta or a Vista Cruiser which all used the code 16 beige vinyl trim.
81 A PNT is the paint and vinyl top code. (81) Honey Beige paint, (A) White
vinyl top.
12B is the built date. (12) December, (B) 2nd week of the month.  Probably
1972.
A65 is the option code for the Custom Sport Front Bench Seat w/center armrest
and bright chrome moldings (std on Royale).

So how did I do?

Paul

------------------------------

From: Thomas Hill <tjhill@cris.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 02:11:02 -0300
Subject: 71 Olds Cutlass Supreme for sale

71 Cut Sup Conv for sale: Painted 3 yrs ago its original color (Saturn 
Gold),350 4bbl,automatic (floor),dual exhaust,new G.M. rear quarters and 
front fenders, front and rear bumpers are in great condition (original 
front and rear bumper guards are still on them),black top and interior, 5 
SS wheels with bolt on center caps, almost new Eagle ST tires (5). I have 
about $10,000 in receipts for parts bought and work done. Asking for any 
reasonable offer around $6000.00

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 23:16:43 -0300
Subject: Re: reclining bucket seat 

In a message dated 96-09-09 09:41:06 EDT, you write:

<<  If it is proper for a '70 I will put it in the frame off I'm doing.
 Come on all you experts, help me out. >>

>From what I can tell, Reclining bucket seats, option A70 was last available
in 1968.  Head restraints were recommended with this option.  Reclining
bucket seats were not available again until 1978, option UT6.  Although I
thought mid '70s Cutlass Salons had recliners, too.  Maybe they were
standard.

Paul

------------------------------

From: oldsnut@westworld.com (Chuck Noppe)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 23:29:02 -0300
Subject: Re: 394 Performance goodies...was Re: Spotted: 64 Dyn. 88 Conv. 

>
>
>
>> Stopped to check out a 64 Dynamic 88 Convertable that is for sale here in
>> St. Marys.  Nice car...good interior, straight body and chrome, though
>> aging.  Needs a new top.  Fading red paint with black top and maroonish
>> interior.  Not original paint.  I'm assuming this car has a 394. 
>
>
>	You could probibly find a bigger carb than the stock 4GC (same 
>pattern as a holley, if I'm not mistaken...or was that an AFB/Edelbrock 
>swap that would work...forget which).  That would probibly get a few 
>horses. 
>

My sugestion is get rid of the 4GC they tend to leak, have sloshing problems 
when turning corners, flat spots etc, after the third 4GC and 2nd engine
fire I replaced mine with a 650 Holley, never had a problem again.

also the block is the same  base casting from 49 303 Cid,54 324Cid, 57 371Cid
and 59 394cid. The J-2 manifold will NOT bolt up as the head height is 
different
I found that out when i put a 60 394 in my 58 88 and tried to bolt the thing on
was I p***ed! 
>	
definetly a cool car!
>
>			Scott
>		1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98
>
Chuck Noppe 

Oldsnut @ westworld.com

66 Oldsmobile Toronado Dlx
67 Oldsmobile Toronado Dlx
68 Oldsmobile Toronado Dlx
71 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight LS
71 Cadillac Coupe Deville
72 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight Regency
72 Oldsmobile Toronado Brougham
92 Mercury Grand Marquis

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 23:16:28 -0300
Subject: Re: Another 68 joins the family... 

In a message dated 96-09-08 23:25:50 EDT, you write:

<< Weren't there pictures of the available wheels in the product literature?
>>

Yes, but I haven't seen anything yet for '68 as far as an SSI wheel.  Only
SSII.

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 23:16:41 -0300
Subject: Re: Exhaust manifolds 

In a message dated 96-09-09 01:39:13 EDT, you write:

<< -I installed dual exhaust manifolds, numberes 402294 and 412287  >>

What engine size are we talking here?  I didn't need to change the manifolds
when I converted my '72 to duals.

Paul

------------------------------

From: mike.blankenship@medaphis.com
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 23:16:36 -0300
Subject: 70 442 CONVT

For Sale or Trade:

Good News:

1970 442 convertible
galleon gold exterior/interior
original 455, W-Z manifolds, turbo 400 
sport wheel
bench seat
a/c
3:23 open
asking $1,500 

Bad News:

car was sitting half in/out of a shed.  The left side of the car is o.k.
the right side needs quarter, fender, door, trunk and floor pan.
grilles are knocked out and both bumpers are rusty. top is half falling in. 

if you are interested just private e-mail me at 
Mike.Blankenship@medaphis.com


thanks

------------------------------

From: oldsnut@westworld.com (Chuck Noppe)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 23:23:07 -0300
Subject: RE: Oldsmobile Ninety Eights???????? 

>>>
>>>mine is a base model 5 door.   ;)
>>>
>>>
>>I understand now... I almost bought a 71 CB 98 ambulance back in 84 when i
>>was in high school, but my folks would not allow it in their driveway or on
>>their street. It was too bad that car shure would have looked great nest to
>>my 55 super 88 and 71 98... Parents who can figure..... 
>>Chuck Noppe 
>>
>it was my mom who told me about it and gave me the extra money I needed to buy
>the car! parents don't get much cooler than that.
>
>great parents!
>
>Dan Dale daleds@okra.millsaps.edu http://www.millsaps.edu/~daleds/index.html 
>cars: 1972 Cotner-Bevington Oldsmobile 98 Endloader, 1966 Pontiac GTO, 1973  
>Imperial LeBaron, 1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-X, 1955 Cadillac Seville, 1969  
>Cadillac DeVille Convertibles (2), 1976 Cadillac Series 75 Fleetwood Brougham
>1961 Imperial Custom, 1973 Buick Riviera                                     
>
Chuck Noppe 

Oldsnut @ westworld.com

66 Oldsmobile Toronado Dlx
67 Oldsmobile Toronado Dlx
68 Oldsmobile Toronado Dlx
71 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight LS
71 Cadillac Coupe Deville
72 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight Regency
72 Oldsmobile Toronado Brougham
92 Mercury Grand Marquis

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 23:16:37 -0300
Subject: Re: VIN#'s 

In a message dated 96-09-09 00:07:25 EDT, you write:

<< Does anyone know of a system to find out what the VIN means for my 66
 Dynamic 88?   >>

Yeah, but all it's going to tell you is the body style number, plant code,
and production sequence.

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 23:16:43 -0300
Subject: Re: Autronic Eye 

In a message dated 96-09-09 18:31:42 EDT, you write:

<<  GM had many shapes of such receptors and many locations,
 the mid 60's Olds ones look real funny to me. 
 
 Anyone know if I could connect the 66 photo tube to a solid state amplifier?
 
 Anyway that's the story of the Autronic eye. Hope this is of interest
 to you all. >>

I have a "Guide Matic" power headlight control (they changed the name in '60)
for my '67 98.  These were dealer installed.  My receptor gets painted body
color and mounts of the driver's side fender at the rear of the hood.
 Haven't been brave enough to drill the hole yet.  I'm pretty sure it's all
solid state, there's no big amplifier box like my '52 had.  You should be
able to get tubes at Radio Shack.  I've been buying tubes there for my old
radios for years.  Go ahead an put yours on, even if it doesn't work.  People
will wonder what the heck it is.  Don't think your photo tube will work with
solid state.  I think mine is called a photo-electric cell.

Oh, in '60 when they changed the name, they added a feature called Safety
Salute.  If your "eye" sensed that the oncoming driver had his lights on
high, it would flash the lights twice to encourage the other driver to kick
his down to low beam.  Bet that was a nightmare!

Paul

------------------------------

From: Esko Ilola <esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi>
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 08:49:54 -0300
Subject: Trouble with wiring harness

Last thursday me and my wife were driving our 98 to home. During the drive we 
noticed 
a smell of burning wire coming in. We supposed that the smell was coming from 
the 
nasty looking Lada driving in front of us.

The Lada turned away and the smell continued. Not coming from Lada..... At 
home I 
almost burned my fingers on the ignition key. This key wa HOT. Then I put my 
hand 
under the dashboard and feeled the wires in there near the ignition switch. 
This time 
I burned my fingers.

I loosened the ground cable out of battery and took a careful look under the 
dash. It 
was a mess there.

In friday I took the whole harness (yes, it comes out in one piece) out of the 
car. At 
first sight I noticed many non-original modifications in it.

I took all insulation stuff out of the harness to inspect it's condition. Not 
bad, 
except the head lamp feed wires which were in a bad condition. Checked the 
head lamps 
at once. These should be normal (non-halogen) low-wattage lamps but some IDIOT 
had put 
halogens out there. This was of course the main reason for our 
harness-burn-out.

Fortunately I have born with a soldering iron in my hand (that's what my mom 
told me) 
and restoring this harness was not a very tricky job. Anyway one specific 
thing 
took quite a long time until I understood what was in front of me:

There is a ballast resistor in the ignition system. The resistor does not look 
like a 
resistor because it actually is a resistive wire among the other wires in the 
harness. 
The same IDIOT had put an external resistor AND had used the original 
resistive wire. 
I took the external resistor away because I could not see it in my shop 
manual. I 
measured the resistance of this 'wire' and it matched the 1.8 ohms stated in 
my 
manual. Good.

I replaced all oxidated connectors (the inside elements of those) with new 
ones. When 
doing this I noted that the original builders had been real professionals: the 
wires 
had been pre-tinned before crimping. This ensures both mechanical and 
electrical 
strength. I did the same with the new connectors. At same time I noticed some 
newer 
connectors that some amateur had put in. No pre-tinnig....no contact. The wire 
end had 
oxidated very badly. I replaced them too.

When I took the insulating stuff away from the harness, I noticed that there 
was some 
15 metres of the NITTO-tape-stuff with the ugly glue. I was forced to wash the 
wires 
with soap (Fairy) and water.

I wound the black spiral over the harness and today it's back in the car. 
Works fine. 
Especially when I put the double light relay to carry the high current for 
headlight 
bulps.

If you guys have ANYTHING to ask of wiring harness of a Ninety Eight -64 4DHT 
Holiday 
Sports Sedan, don't hesitate to ask me.

- -- 
**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi           *
* X400  G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
* Oldsmobile 98  1964  4D HT                 *
**********************************************

------------------------------

From: Spud <spud@kudonet.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 00:23:07 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile ID Book 

At 01:59 AM 9/9/96 -0300, you wrote:
>ST73 3BN57LAN351161     BDY
>TR  326      81  A      PNT
>  12B A65
>
>'73 model year.  Built In Lansing, Mi.  351161 is the unit number from that 
>plant.  Trim code is 326.  Built 2nd week in December?  81 is Lower Body 
>color.  A is upper body color.  N57 ia Delta 88 Royal Hardtop Coupe.  81 was 
>Bamboo in '72.  A is white single-tone exterior color code.
>3B is Oldsmobile B-body.
>

Many thanks.  These fit the current facts, color and all.  I'd say bamboo is
apropo for this sort of yellow. It has a white vinyl top.  Perhaps it's even
the original paint, considering the rust that's peeking through in spots.





Spud     "Fart proudly."
'86 FXST   --Benjamin Franklin
'73 Delta 88
'79 LeBaron

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 15:10:20 -0300
Subject: Re: Deep Thoughts

jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com wrote:
> 
> FYI
> Mike,
> 
> I didn't write these.  You might ask Jack Handey.  I found them to be
> lightly humorous, and thought I'd share them with ya.  Have a heart.

Hey, all in good fun.   ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Spud <spud@kudonet.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 00:23:15 -0300
Subject: Re: Autronic Eye 

At 07:20 PM 9/9/96 -0300, you wrote:
>
>Dave Paulison wrote
>>What is an autronic eye, and what does it do??
>
>The autronic eye was a system which combined a light sensitive receiver
>with an amplifier and a special headlamp switch to automatically turn
>off the high beams when another car approached. 
>
>Basically the photo tube reads the amount of ambient light and when it
>gets above a certain (settable by the driver) setting, it switches high
>beams to low. My guess is the amplifier changes the milliamp/millivolt
>signal to one strong enough to switch the lights.

Sounds like a thing called a photomultiplier tube.  These are still used in
high tech optics stuff, including communications sattelites.  I'm not sure
about the levels of voltage and current produced.  I'm pretty certain
they're higher than in modern electronic sensors, but you're no doubt
correct about the use of the signal.

>Anyone know if I could connect the 66 photo tube to a solid state amplifier?

I'll wager yes.  For a time, as solid state electronic were coming into
common use, juke boxes had a mix of solid state and ballistic electron
technologies.  So long as you chose components that can withstand the levels
of voltage and current involved, it should be a good weekend project.

>Anyway that's the story of the Autronic eye. Hope this is of interest
>to you all.

Yup.  Prespace age electronics.  Spiffy stuff.  I didn't know they used that
stuff in such older autos.  Cool.

>cf



Spud     "Fart proudly."
'86 FXST   --Benjamin Franklin
'73 Delta 88
'79 LeBaron

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 05:18:01 -0300
Subject: Re: Late model Olds engine 

     With the alum. intake and 4bbl it could be a High Output version, ala 
     442 or H/O (VIN 9 rather than VIN Y).  I don't know how to tell for 
     sure.  If the heads are 5a it's '81-84, if they're 7a it's '85-up.  If 
     it's a VIN 9 engine it might be worth a couple hundred to the right 
     buyer, like someone who's trying to restore a 442 or H/O to factory 
     specs, or maybe to someone converting their diesel Cutlass to gas.  
     Other than that, it's not worth much since 350's and other Olds blocks 
     are still easy to come by.
     
     It's a BOP bolt pattern, probably was mated to either a TH200-4R or 
     TH-200 tranny.  If it's the High Output version it's 180hp and 
     245ft-lbs of torque.  I think the non-high-output version is around 
     145hp.
     
     If they're 5a heads, you might get a few bucks for them at a swap 
     meet.  You also might get a few bucks for the aluminum intake.
     
     Tom L.

______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: Late model Olds engine
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    9/10/96 6:32 AM


I recently picked up a 307 Olds engine. It is a four barrel carb version with 
the
     
aluminum intake from the factory. Do these have any value? And what 
bellhousing 
pattern do they have, B-O-P or Ch**y ? The block has a cast in "5.0".
Dave Wyatt  70 4-4-2
     
     
     

------------------------------

From: Esko Ilola <esko.ilola@Tele.telebox.fi>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 03:55:34 -0300
Subject: RE: Wiper problems

The wiper gear box has a built-in switch that shuts down the motor when the 
wipers 
are in a good position to stop. Some misoperation of this switch could cause 
the 
symptoms which you described.
- -- 
**********************************************
* Esko Ilola                                 *
* Email esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi           *
* X400  G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Tel.  +358 2040 3439                       *
* Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*       01610 VANTAA                         *
*       FINLAND                              *
**********************************************
* Oldsmobile 98  1964  4D HT                 *
**********************************************

------------------------------

From: "C. Clements" <clements@cinci.infi.net>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 20:09:32 -0300
Subject: Seeking books recommendation...

After three years of driving an '81 honda, i went and got myself a 
real car: a '68 cutlass supreme 4-door, 350 2bbl, 78K miles. So long, 35 mpg, 
hello, 15 mpg. I can see by the ferver of this mail that i have truly made a 
wise decision.
	First question: I need some recommended books, service manuals for 
learning how to work on this thing. GM-produced or other suggestions are more 
than welcome (got to get a heater core in before it gets cold). 
	Second question: Am I kidding myself, or will it cost me an arm and a 
leg to have the air conditioning recharged on this baby, given the new 
treatment of freon?

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 20:16:53 -0300
Subject: Re: Another Olds Movie Car Sighting -Reply 

Seeing as how this topic of Cutlass S, Supreme, and 442 has been beaten to 
death, how about a new topic?

Why have I been getting only 25 or so messages a day when earlier in the 
summer 
I was getting 70 or more?

------------------------------

From: Brad Baker <bradbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 20:21:47 -0300
Subject: Engine numbers

Could someone please tell me where to look on the engine and tranny to find
the serial numbers so I can check them against the VIN number.Someone sent
the locations here once,but they did not seem to be where he said they
were.Also,how can you tell what style heads are on the motor? I.E. "F","A".
Not that I think my engine is very good or rare,but would just like to know.
TIA.....

Brad (0-0||||0-0) Convertible

------------------------------

From: Brad Baker <bradbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 20:21:43 -0300
Subject: Re: Alternator hookup

At 12:01 09/12/1996 +0000, you wrote:
>I've got a question about the hookup of my externally regulated alternator.
>First, some background.  I've replaced it twice (thank God for lifetime
>warranties!), and my GEN light glows (still).  I've checked all connections,
>grounds, etc, etc, and cleaned most of the connectors.  The light glows at a
>pretty consistent dimness, though sometimes if I rev the engine (in park or
>neutral), as soon as I take my foot off the gas, the light will brighten for
>a second, then become dim again, and remain so.  My question involves the
>wire connections at the alternator.  There is a small plastic connector with
>two wires in it, one blue, the other black.  The connector has been replaced
>at some time, and the original wires in the car's wiring harness are blue
>and white.  When it was replaced, the blue wire (of the connector) was
>soldered to the white wire of the harness, and the black of the connector
>was soldered to the blue of the harness.  Like this:
>
            ||     ||
   blue---> ||     || <---white (car's harness) 
            ||     ||     
            {}     {} <---solder joint 
            ||     ||
  black---> ||     || <---blue (new connector)
            ||     ||
>
>The blue wire from the car's original harness (black on the new connector)
>is connected to the F terminal on the alternator, and the white from the
>car's harness (blue on new connector) goes to the R terminal on the
>alternator.  Does the connection of these wires make a difference in
>alternator operation?  Could it make my GEN light glow if hooked up
>incorrectly?  Hope this is understandable..
>
>Thanks for the help!
>--
>Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
>dpauliso@metrolink.net
>
>
Dave, I went under my hood and looked at the wires going to the
alternator.Had to unrap the black tape to see the wires,but what I found is
this:


            Thick red wire
    _________________________________________________________to top post
                                                             of Alt.       

    light blue wire -- connector -- white wire                _____  
  __________________________#________________________________|     | top
                                                             |     | 
    light blue wire -- connector -- dark blue(black}         |     |
  __________________________#________________________________|     |
                                                             |_____| bottom

                                                             nothing on 
                                                             bottom post

The two light blue wires and the red wire go back to the drivers fender
harness,then to the fire wall.I don't know why there are two connectors at
the Alt,but it could be for A/C. Got kinda dirty looking at the wires,so I
hope it helps!!! :)

Brad (0-0||||0-0)   

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 22:20:05 -0300
Subject: Undeserved Kudos

I just got home after being away all day to discover the comments about 
the mail problems with the list, the report that I was aware of it (I 
wasn't), and then the profuse thanks that I was on top of the problem.

Well, it appears that the problem has been fixed, but I had nothing to do 
with it. Sorry. Sometimes mail seems to get stuck somewhere along the way 
although it almost always gets thru eventually. As for the digest 
containing messages not on the live list, I do know that sometimes 
majordomo will intercept a message that contains certain key words and 
bounce it to me, so it never makes it to the live list, but that feature 
isn't implemented in the digest for some reason and everything will go 
there, for better or worse. Vagaries of email I guess; never assume that 
*everything* will get to where it's supposed to -- unless it's a message 
sent in error, in which case it is guaranteed to arrive and embarass the 
sender. :)

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 01:15:53 -0300
Subject: Re: Wiper problems

Hey, Esko!

What was that again about the wiper switch???

The 66 Toro and Mike and Mike and Mike and Mike

Is there an echo in here?


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Dan Williams <dr_olds@kfmw.net>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 15:53:18 -0300
Subject: Vinyl dyeing

I'm getting ready to dye the dash and a-pillar trim.  Does anybody have 
any hints/tips?  Also, the only places I can find that has the vinyl die 
prep is Eastwood ($7) or Year One ($14).  However, Eastwood does not 
have the correct color of dye.  Would it be wise to mix and match the 
prep and dye?

TIA,

Dan

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 21:38:21 -0300
Subject: 67 Service manual 

Glenn,
Congratulations on your new (old) cool car. There are two manuals you'll
be interested in:
1) Chassis Service Manual 
2) Fisher Body Manual

The Service manual is the best book of the two and covers most everything
except where the chrome goes and how to fix electric seats and windows.
That's what the Fisher body manual does.

Suggest you check Fusick's in Windsor CT (203)623-1589. They're good guys,
olds specialists and probably have or know where you can get the books.
They've recommended Al Sandy to me for stuff they didn't have. He's at
(609)858-0248. I got my books from Faxon's Auto Literature in San Diego.
The area code there is (619), but I don't have the number. I think they
have an (800) number which you can get in Hemmings Motor News.

In case you're unfamiliar with Hemmings, it is a book-sized magazine that 
comes out monthly with nothing but cars and parts for sale. Get it at your
better newstand. 

Hope this helps!
cf

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 00:38:17 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Die Cast Models

David,

Thanks for the lead.  Only 442s, no Toronados.  :(

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 21:49:15 -0300
Subject: Re: Barrie Swap Meet details cont'd 

U stands for a 455 automatic car and a V is for a 455 stick car
and of course a X stands for a W-30


W MACHINES    

------------------------------

From: Dan Williams <dr_olds@kfmw.net>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 15:17:25 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Die Cast Models

David Brown wrote:
> 
> Check out:
> http://www.marketplaza.com/shop/evers.html

They don't have any Oldsmobiles on there. In fact, they don't have a lot 
of the Ertl muscle cars.  Am I missing something?  Also, like I said 
before, a week or 2 I was told that those Ertl 69s would be delayed 
again for several months.

- -Dan

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 21:53:47 -0300
Subject: Re: Another Olds Movie Car Sighting -Reply 

S does stand for Sport, but in 68-69 a supreme was the best package,
but from 70-72 the Sport was the best package for 442's and cutlass's.

68-69 supreme were the same body style as a cutlass, but from 70-72 the 
Supreme became a different animal so for 442 packages was offered
F-85,Cutlass and the Cutlass S  442 package on supremes were offered
on converts only

W MACHINES
72 442 W-30

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 01:35:22 -0300
Subject: Post Haste

Well, it's nice to see yesterdays messages finally showing up.  
Thanks for kicking the E-snail, Greg.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 02:04:48 -0300
Subject: Re: Alternator hookup

Brad Baker wrote:
> 
> The two light blue wires and the red wire go back to the drivers fender
> harness,then to the fire wall.I don't know why there are two connectors 
> at the Alt,but it could be for A/C.

Don't have a wiring diagram in front of me but the big red one would be 
the 13.8VDC output.  The other two are prolly to an external regulator.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Chris and Robin <cya442@erols.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 22:50:29 -0300
Subject: Re: Trans fluid change

Todd Morris wrote:
> 
> 
> I've decided a change in fluid for my Muncie 4 sp will be helpful in fixing 
the stiffness
> when shifting into 2nd gear when cold.  I'll use either Red Line or Amsoil 
synthetic.
> However, nothing in the shop manual about how to change the fluid.  There 
appears to be a
> drain plug on the pass side of the trans case, about halfway up.  But the 
drain plus location
> raises the question:  How would one drain the fluid in the bottom half of 
the case?
> and, when drained, how would one refill it to the top?  Or, maybe the Muncie 
4 sp doesn't
> need to be filled to the top?  Pls don't say the trans has to be removed for 
a simple fluid
> change.....
> 
> Todd Morris
> 71 442 4 sp.

My Muncie has two plugs on the side, one near the bottom (for draining)
and one half way up (which is where you fill it until it just starts to
come out then put the plug back in).  If you don't have the bottom plug
you will have to siphon it out.

Chris M.
cya442@erols.com
'68 442

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 22:53:58 -0300
Subject: Re: Alternator hookup 

In a message dated 96-09-10 17:05:05 EDT, you write:

<< The blue wire from the car's original harness (black on the new connector)
 is connected to the F terminal on the alternator, and the white from the
 car's harness (blue on new connector) goes to the R terminal on the
 alternator. >>

Yup.  Thats how my '72 is.  I just went out and looked... in the dark... with
a flashlight... in my jammies... I could have gotten mugged... and I got my
hand dirty...

I know disconnecting this plug will make the light glow (probably brighter in
your case).  Maybe you should try turning it around?  Maybe the connector in
the alternator is in backwards.

Paul
Still alive... going to wash my hands now.

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 22:54:04 -0300
Subject: Re: Barrie Swap Meet details cont'd 

In a message dated 96-09-10 19:18:05 EDT, you write:

<< But I did get a look at the VIN #. It had a U in it. What does that 
 mean, quick someone look it up!! >>

U?  Well lets see, looks like thats the L75 455 4bbl w/400 THM

Paul

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 22:54:08 -0300
Subject: Re: '67 Olds technical manual needed. 

In a message dated 96-09-10 20:10:49 EDT, you write:

<<  I just got it started and
 am looking for a service manual.  I've called a handfull of places with
 no luck.  
 
 Any ideas?????? >>

Well, I've been looking for a replacement for my '67 shop manual (its falling
apart) for about 2 years.  All the ones I've seen at swap meets are in the
$70-$75 range.  Too expensive for me.  I ran across one at the Norther Ohio
OCA show a few weeks back for $45.  Snapped that puppy up right away.  It was
the cheapest one I've seen so far and looks to be brand new.  Nothing I can
tell you 'cept keep lookin'.

Happy Hunting
Paul

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 02:01:53 -0300
Subject: Re: Undeserved Kudos

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
> 
> I just got home after being away all day to discover the comments about
> the mail problems with the list, the report that I was aware of it (I
> wasn't)...

Oops.  I understood from Andy Green that he had already notified you but 
then he doesn't know what he's...

> and then the profuse thanks that I was on top of the problem.

OK, we take it back.

> ...majordomo will intercept a message that contains certain key words 
> and bounce it to me, so it never makes it to the live list...

Key words like "ha-ha".  Which would answer the Roger's question about 
the decrease in message traffic.   ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Wright, Thomas CDT " <x02311@exmail.usma.army.mil>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 23:10:42 -0300
Subject: The BIG Oldsmobiles

I too, am a proud owner of one the fullsize automobiles that Olds
produced.  It's a 66 Dynamic 88 2-door hardtop, with 38,000 original
miles (bought from a little old lady who only drove to church for the
past 12 years), power steering/brakes, 425 H.C. that used to have a
2-barrel, now equiped with a Edelbrock Performer manifold and cam (just
recently aquirred, can't wait to drive it!), 2 and 1/2 inch exhaust with
custom headers, BFG's on American Racing Wheels, rebuilt front
suspension with the front inch lowered 1-inch, same interior which is
almost perfect and a damn nice stereo that didn't hack up the interior. 
The only thing left is to have it painted.  Then my "baby" will be
finished.  Alot of late night jobs are going into that car, but it's all
worth it. Although what sucks the most is that i'm stuck at the United
States Military Academy at West Point so my dad has to send me photos
every once and awhile to show me how the process is coming along.

Tom Wright 66 Dynamic 88 "The Beast"

 

>----------
>From: 	Scott R Clark[SMTP:mickeyd@selway.umt.edu]
>Sent: 	Monday, September 09, 1996 5:53 PM
>To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
>Subject: 	Re: Oldsmobile Ninety Eights????????
>
>
>
>> I have been subscribing for a week or so and I don't seem to run into
>>much talk
>> about the bigger beasts. namely the Ninety Eights. Am I the only one out
>> there with a love for the big comfortable road hogs? Yes, they are a bit
>> larger and not as quick as a 442 or 68-70 Toro W-34 or GT, but surely some
>> one must love Oldsmobiles "cadillac",
>
>	Welcome to the list!
>
>	As someone else mentioned, there are lots of 88/98 nuts here, but we 
>tend to be a little more low key than a lot of the group.  I've been on
>
>the list for close to two years (maybe more, I forget) now, but 
>personaly, have been kind of quiet simply because I've been super
>busey, so I really 
>have'nt had a whole lot of time to work on either my car or the 
>computer.  But, you're not alone!  
>	
>	At any rate, I have a 1960 Olds 98 two door hardtop that I'm 
>restoring.  I bought it from a local junkyard shortly after they bought
>
>it at the local sheriffs' auction of abandoned vehicles.  It was a
>basket 
>case too.  I've talked to the last owner, and aparently it sat in a
>field 
>for some 12 years rotting away, with mice living in the engine 
>compartment (boy, that was a fun mess to clean up!).  Anyway, at this 
>point, I've got the engine rebuilt, and nicely detailed (still looking 
>for an original air cleaner, though.  The two I found in the back 
>seat don't seem to fit).  All of the front sheet metal is 
>off until I get around to the bodywork, and can afford to get it 
>painted.  Interior is also gutted, so I can repair the holes rusted in 
>the floor.  It need a new dashpad, seat upholestry, headliner, etc, but
>
>all the interior goodies are still there and in good shape.  I just 
>love that Wonderbar with the floor mounted seek button!  Power windows 
>too!
>
>	It's going to be a while before it's done, but it's getting there 
>(nobody believes me that I'll have it finished before the end of the 
>decade, if at all, but I have faith.)  The only thing really slowing me
>
>is a lack of $$.  
>
>	But, once again, welcome to the list!  Theres never a dull moment.
>	
>				Scott
>			1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98  
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 01:56:15 -0300
Subject: Re: Another Olds Movie Car Sighting -Reply

Roger M. Borlase wrote:
> 
> Why have I been getting only 25 or so messages a day when earlier in 
> the summer I was getting 70 or more?

We cut out the jokes.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 23:34:03 -0300
Subject: RE: Engine numbers 

>Could someone please tell me where to look on the engine and tranny to find
>the serial numbers so I can check them against the VIN number.Someone sent
>the locations here once,but they did not seem to be where he said they
>were.Also,how can you tell what style heads are on the motor? I.E. "F","A".
>Not that I think my engine is very good or rare,but would just like to know.
>TIA.....

Brad and others,

on a small pad just below the left (driver's side) head.
On driver's side of tranny just above the pan

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 23:55:49 -0300
Subject: vin # 

Paul,

Can you help out with this on my '72 Cutlass cruiser:?

TR 929
05D0184

I know that 5D is last week in May.

TIA,

Roger Borlase
http://www.microdata.com/rborlase/borlase.htm	(car)
http:///www.microdata.com/rborlase		(me)

------------------------------

From: "Dave Holgate" <am435@detroit.freenet.org>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 00:14:32 -0300
Subject: 70 Hood info.

Hello all! I've only been on this list for about 4 days now and am loving
every minute of it! I wish I knew about this a long time ago since I've had
net access since about last May. I'll guess I'll give a short story of my
70 Olds Cutlass S as an intorduction.

I bought it back in 1992 for $1500 with a missing shift rod from the 4
speed trans. It had a factory 455 with a 4 speed in it. I wonder if this is
a rare combination in a Cutlass S since I haven't seen a whole lot of
factory 455 4-speeds that weren't 442's. The guy I bought it from wanted
$1800 for it but I offered him $1500 as long as he tossed in an Edelbrock
aluminum intake with it! I replaced the missing shift rod and the car ran
great! I took it to Milan Dragway near Detroit and it ran 14.70's on street
tires with no other mods. The next week I ran it on slicks and it ran
13.80's! About 2 months later it developed a rod knock and to my surprise
it only had a Comp cam 260 in it and the rear end was only a 3:08! (I
should have known it had a crappy gear since I was going through the traps
at the track in only 3rd gear!). I then bought two 455's here from a guy
that needed the $$ bad for $150 and installed the one that he said ran good
and that one developed a rod knock about a month after that! The car sat
for about 2 years and I'm now in the process of rebuilding my first engine
with a lot of Mondello goodies and some oil restrictors and better pump to
keep that darn oil where it belongs in the oil pan! I'm in the process of
looking for a  W-30 hood and need to know which year W-30 hoods are the
same as my 70'? I've heard that the 70'-72's are all the same. I look
forward to the good info and advice I'll get on this list!

Dave Holgate
(am435@detroit.freenet.org)
 

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 15:34:33 -0300
Subject: Re: Alternator hookup

At 10:53 PM 9/10/96 -0300, you wrote:

>Yup.  Thats how my '72 is.  I just went out and looked... in the dark... with
>a flashlight... in my jammies... I could have gotten mugged... and I got my
>hand dirty...

Gee, thanks...sorry for the trouble...you coulda waited 'til tomorrow.

- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 00:21:58 -0300
Subject: Re: '67 Olds technical manual needed.

On Mon, 9 Sep 1996, Glenn Gawron wrote:

> I just inherited a '67 Cutlass Supreme with a 330 4 barrel and 40K
> ORIGINAL miles.  It hadent run in 15+years.  I just got it started and
> am looking for a service manual.  I've called a handfull of places with
> no luck.  
> 
> Any ideas??????
> Thanks

Try 1-800-BUY-A-BOOK.  Seriously.  He advertises in Hemmings.  He's in 
Ohio somewhere, I believe.  I bought the factory service manuals for both 
my '64 and '75 Oldsmobiles from him.



Dan Gulino

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 15:39:24 -0300
Subject: Re: Alternator hookup

At 08:21 PM 9/10/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Got kinda dirty looking at the wires,so I
>hope it helps!!! :)
>Brad (0-0||||0-0)   

Man, you guys didn't have to go getting all dirty tonight...the damn GEN
light has only been glowing for about, uh, 6 months now (I think).

Thanks!
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 15:57:14 -0300
Subject: Re: Alternator hookup

At 02:04 AM 9/11/96 -0300, you wrote:

>Don't have a wiring diagram in front of me but the big red one would be 
>the 13.8VDC output.  The other two are prolly to an external regulator.
>The 66 Toro and Mike

Yes, the Fat Red Wire is for the 13.8vdc output.  The other two go to the
regulator.  I was just wondering if the position of the other two wires made
a difference in alternator/GEN light  operation, since the connector has
been replaced, and I don't know if it was done correctly.  Would it be OK to
switch them to check, or will I hurt something (melt a wire, blow up a
battery, etc)?  
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 00:40:28 -0300
Subject: Re: 71 Olds Cutlass Supreme for sale

On Tue, 10 Sep 1996, Thomas Hill wrote:
> 71 Cut Sup Conv for sale: Painted 3 yrs ago its original color (Saturn 
> Gold),350 4bbl,automatic (floor),dual exhaust,new G.M. rear quarters and 
> front fenders, front and rear bumpers are in great condition (original 
> front and rear bumper guards are still on them),black top and interior, 5 
> SS wheels with bolt on center caps, almost new Eagle ST tires (5). I have 
> about $10,000 in receipts for parts bought and work done. Asking for any 
> reasonable offer around $6000.00

Thomas,

2 questions: what is the mileage and where is the car located? Email me 
privately if you wish. Thanks!

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 00:34:46 -0300
Subject: w-45, w-46 

Hi all.

Can anybody out there list what was in the 1972 w-45, w-46 option package?  I 
know that it was some sort of special performance package.  I read that 1 
station wagon from '72 had it, and was curious if anybody had seen it, or read
about it and could pass any info along.

Thanks,

Roger Borlase
'72 Cutlass wagon.

------------------------------

From: Brad Baker <bradbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 00:45:54 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds For Sale

At 21:22 09/09/1996 +0000, you wrote:
>>From the Sunday Tampa Tribune:
>
>	"OLDS 1968 Cutlass Conv. new
>	 top, new brakes, Runs great!
>	 $2700 OBO  813-661-2216"
>

>The 66 Toro and Mike
>
>
>-- 
>Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
>     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
>     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/
>


Gee,thanks for making my mouth water!! :( Sounds like a car that I could use
for parts if it wasn't 1300 miles away. Anything for sale closer to New
England???

Brad (0-0||||0-0) Cutlass S Convt

------------------------------

From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 23:42:00 -0300
Subject: 1969 442 Models at Walmart

Attention Walmart shoppers,
Just to let you all know, I have seen and bought the AMT/Ertl '69 442 W-30 
Models at Walmart for only about $8.50 a piece.  These are the 1/25 scale 
plastic models, not the die-cast 1/18 that I mentioned before that I saw in 
Fusick.  I have seen them here in St. Louis, and also half-way across the 
state, in the Ozarks, and in Branson.  If they don't have them in a Walmart 
near you, I'm sure they can order them for you.  They are virtually 
identical to the MPC /Ertl '69 442 W30 models that I bought about  10 years 
ago.  Back then I also bought a AMT/Ertl '69 Hurst Olds 1/25 scale model 
that I've never put together yet (but will someday).
Thank you for shopping at Walmart.

Jeff Zeilmann
SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
'68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible

------------------------------

From: Brad Baker <bradbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 00:45:51 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds For Sale

At 21:22 09/09/1996 +0000, you wrote:
>>From the Sunday Tampa Tribune:
>
>	"OLDS 1968 Cutlass Conv. new
>	 top, new brakes, Runs great!
>	 $2700 OBO  813-661-2216"
>

>The 66 Toro and Mike
>
>
>-- 
>Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
>     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
>     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/
>


Gee,thanks for making my mouth water!! :( Sounds like a car that I could use
for parts if it wasn't 1300 miles away. Anything for sale closer to New
England???

Brad (0-0||||0-0) Cutlass S Convt

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 16:05:51 -0300
Subject: AC recharge

At 08:09 PM 9/10/96 -0300, you wrote:
>	Second question: Am I kidding myself, or will it cost me an arm and a 
>leg to have the air conditioning recharged on this baby, given the new 
>treatment of freon?

Well, provided you don't have anything wrong with the AC (no leaks,
everything works), and all it needs is a to have the system evacuated and
recharged, you'll be looking at spending about $75 - $200 to have it
recharged, depending on where you take it.  Call around where you live and
ask before you take it somewhere to find the lowest price.
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Brad Baker <bradbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 00:51:50 -0300
Subject: Re: Alternator hookup

At 18:39 09/12/1996 +0000, you wrote:
>At 08:21 PM 9/10/96 -0300, you wrote:
>>Got kinda dirty looking at the wires,so I
>>hope it helps!!! :)
>>Brad (0-0||||0-0)   
>
>Man, you guys didn't have to go getting all dirty tonight...the damn GEN
>light has only been glowing for about, uh, 6 months now (I think).
>
>Thanks!
>--
>Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
>dpauliso@metrolink.net
>
>
Looks like a few of us need to get the engine compartment cleaned. Huhummm???
Don't look in the garage either!!! ;)

Brad (0-0||||0-0)

------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei-2@mail.idt.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 01:12:52 -0300
Subject: Re: Autronic Eye 

At 07:20 PM 9/9/96 -0300, you wrote:

>Anyone know if I could connect the 66 photo tube to a solid state amplifier?
>

Lincoln uses a solid state version of what you described. I'm not exactly
sure how it functions but it gives the same result. They call it the
Auto-Dim feature (original huh, just doesn't sound as good as Autronic Eye...)

 >Dave Isho --- davei-2@mail.idt.net
     >67 Cutlass CS Convertible
     

------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei-2@mail.idt.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 01:12:54 -0300
Subject: Re: Alternator hookup 

At 09:01 AM 9/12/96 -0300, you wrote:
>I've got a question about the hookup of my externally regulated alternator.

>From the Service Manual:

The wire going from the R terminal on your alt should be white. The wire
from the F terminal should be blue or green. To check for correct wiring,
perform a continuity check between the alternator to the external regulator.
The wire from R on the Alt should show continuity to the #2 terminal on the
regulator and the wire from the F terminal on the Alt should have continuity
to the F terminal on the regulator.

Hope this helps

 >Dave Isho --- davei-2@mail.idt.net
     >67 Cutlass CS Convertible
     

------------------------------

From: "Brian Lorway" <blorway@rust.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 00:27:13 -0300
Subject: 1996 NHRA U.S. Nationals

I spent the Labor Day weekend down in Indianapolis and attended the U.S.
Nationals and thought some of you might be pleased to know that a 1970 442
made it to the finals of the "Stock" class. This red 442 with black stripes
was driven by Jim Koekel Jr. from Coloma, MI.
 He lost in the finals to a 68' Camaro <sniff>. But it was great fun while
it lasted, it was the highlight of my trip! Here are the final results as
they are listed at http://www.goracing.com

CLERMONT, IN - RIS - Results of final round eliminations in Stock at the
42nd annual NHRA U.S. Nationals: 
 
 W/L  Driver                       Class   Dial    RT        ET   Ov/Un
 
 (W)  Scott Richardson       ESA  11.79  0.527    11.843  0.053
 (L)  Jim Koekel Jr              DSA  11.42  0.590    11.458  0.038


Regards,
Brian

1970 442 W-30

p.s. This is a week late getting to the list... But better late than never!
:)

------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei-2@mail.idt.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 01:17:28 -0300
Subject: Re: Alternator hookup 

At 09:01 AM 9/12/96 -0300, you wrote:
>I've got a question about the hookup of my externally regulated alternator.

>From the Service Manual:

The wire going from the R terminal on your alt should be white. The wire
from the F terminal should be blue or green. To check for correct wiring,
perform a continuity check between the alternator to the external regulator.
The wire from R on the Alt should show continuity to the #2 terminal on the
regulator and the wire from the F terminal on the Alt should have continuity
to the F terminal on the regulator.

Hope this helps

 >Dave Isho --- davei-2@mail.idt.net
     >67 Cutlass CS Convertible
     

------------------------------

From: Dave Isho <davei-2@mail.idt.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 01:17:52 -0300
Subject: Re: Autronic Eye 

At 07:20 PM 9/9/96 -0300, you wrote:

>Anyone know if I could connect the 66 photo tube to a solid state amplifier?
>

Lincoln uses a solid state version of what you described. I'm not exactly
sure how it functions but it gives the same result. They call it the
Auto-Dim feature (original huh, just doesn't sound as good as Autronic Eye...)

 >Dave Isho --- davei-2@mail.idt.net
     >67 Cutlass CS Convertible
     

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 01:19:34 -0300
Subject: Autronic, uh Guidematic 

Paul is right on the money about the name change. Was looking over my
66 manual tonight and realized the autronic eye was an old name for
this headlamp dimming system. In 66 Olds called it the guidematic
power headlight control.

Paul can you confirm if the '67 system is solid state? Also what does the
dash eye look like? Any resemblance to '66 system? If so this could solve
my tube scarcity problem while kitting out my 98 conv with a real strange
and interesting option.

There were apparently a bunch of good engineering steps forward in '67,
seemingly many more than 65-66: better tilt/tele turn switch, padded
dash, hazard flasher on column, and now the guidematic. Good for them.
Did they get to Discs in 67 too? They weren't available on '66's. 

cf

------------------------------

From: DrkSole@aol.com
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 01:23:09 -0300
Subject: Need rrDoor for 67Delta884drht 

Hey, how's it going? I've been  off the list for awhile, am back though.
Don't mean to start making requests right away, but for $250 I'm getting a
green 67 Delta88 from my uncle, only problem with the car, other than the
usual Iowa rust, is that the Right rear door was snagged by a UPS truck
making a u-turn, so I need a new one, has to have manual window and lock, and
preferable would be light green metallic. A 98 door will also fit, can anyone
help? Thanks.
DrkSole

73 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 01:44:47 -0300
Subject: Brake Dual Swap 

$700 sounds like bbiigg $ for this change, but could be fair depending on 
what their kit contains. My understanding that the minimum safe swap
for changing the hydraulic system from single to dual master would be
the master cylinder itself, hydraulic splitter and the variable proportioning
brake valve to keep the rears from locking before the fronts.

BTW, my swap to disc/dual system cost >$700 when I had it professionally
done. My logic is anything which simply doesn't work if I break (fix) it
is o.k. for me to work on. Anything safety related -- suspension, brakes,
I leave to pros. But I'm not trained at all.
cf

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 01:53:33 -0300
Subject: rrDoor for 67 Delta 

Don't know if this is news to you, but I was just at Halls and they had a great
selection of 65-66's. I didn't chekc 67's since they're different, but you 
might
call them in Soldier, KS. 
cf

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 01:47:59 -0300
Subject: Re: any tips for good resto. books 

At 12:04 AM 7/31/96 -0400, you wrote:
>I am in the beginning stages of doing a complete restoration on my 75
>Hurst/Olds and was wondering if anybody could suggest a good book to buy to
>help with restoration. I built my Z/28 from the ground up with relative
>ease, but the H/O presents more challenges. More age, wear and tear make
>things harder. I need something thorough that covers interior cleaning,
>detailing, painting, etc... 
>
>Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com)
>1988 Camaro IROC-Z/28...not your average 88 IROC Z 
>1975 Hurst/Olds W-25
>1975 Hurst/Olds W-25...yes two of them!

OK, this was a while ago, but I saw a book in the library and couldn't get
the name until just now. The book is "How to Restore American Cars of the
'50's", by Motorbooks International (by the editors of Cars and Parts
magazine). The title is misleading, since what they talk about applies
equally well to cars of the 60's and 70's. The section on engine-rebuilding
alone is the best overview I've ever come across of the actual procedures
involved. Very worthwhile.

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Limited Landau Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 01:48:11 -0300
Subject: Re: Wiper Problems 

At 06:33 PM 9/10/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Robert,
>I'm not sure about the wiper switch problem,but you may want to double check
>for any shorts in the wires when the switch is in the dash. I also have that
>orange wire under my dash ('68 Cutlass S Convt) and when I plugged it into
>what I thought was it's mate wire,the GEN light stayed on and killed my
>battery.I'm not sure what that wire is for,but I would say to leave it alone
>until you (we) find out what it is for.
>
>Brad (0-0||||0-0)

That orange wire is the same circuit that feeds the cigar lighter; it is
always hot (+), so plugging it into any random thing (say, a ground wire)
will kill your battery fast.

But you already know that (now). ;)

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Limited Landau Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 01:48:14 -0300
Subject: Re: Seeking books recommendation... 

At 07:09 PM 9/10/96 -0400, you wrote:
>After three years of driving an '81 honda, i went and got myself a 
>real car: a '68 cutlass supreme 4-door, 350 2bbl, 78K miles. So long, 35 mpg, 
>hello, 15 mpg. I can see by the ferver of this mail that i have truly made a 
>wise decision.

Well, its _about_ time! We've been talking about when you'd cave in...

>	First question: I need some recommended books, service manuals for 
>learning how to work on this thing. GM-produced or other suggestions are more 
>than welcome (got to get a heater core in before it gets cold). 

The shop manual, Year One or Fusicks (or one of the many other suppliers
mentioned in other posts today).

>	Second question: Am I kidding myself, or will it cost me an arm and a 
>leg to have the air conditioning recharged on this baby, given the new 
>treatment of freon?

No, just an arm and a couple of toes. I had mine leak checked and recharged
(2 1/4 lbs freon) for about $125. The basic check special, with 1 lb. of
freon added, is $59.95

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Limited Landau Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 01:48:03 -0300
Subject: Re: '67 Olds technical manual needed. 

At 07:03 PM 9/9/96 -0400, you wrote:
>I just inherited a '67 Cutlass Supreme with a 330 4 barrel and 40K
>ORIGINAL miles.  It hadent run in 15+years.  I just got it started and
>am looking for a service manual.  I've called a handfull of places with
>no luck.  

What a find (inheritance)! Try Year One; they have reprints (which others
sell) of the factory manuals for $46. They are at (800) 950-9503. If not
there, try Fusick's at (203) 623-1583; the '69 manual I got from them was
actually a Year One reprint, but they wanted $70.

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Limited Landau Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 01:48:05 -0300
Subject: Re: Engine numbers 

At 07:21 PM 9/10/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Could someone please tell me where to look on the engine and tranny to find
>the serial numbers so I can check them against the VIN number.Someone sent
>the locations here once,but they did not seem to be where he said they
>were.Also,how can you tell what style heads are on the motor? I.E. "F","A".
>Not that I think my engine is very good or rare,but would just like to know.
>TIA.....
>
>Brad (0-0||||0-0) Convertible

For both things, you want to look at the front driver's-side corner of the
engine. Down to the left of the #1 sparkplug will be a raised number
(small-block) or letter (big-block) cast into the head. For your '68 350, it
should be a "4".

The block vin derivative would be on a machined pad on the side of the
block, just below where that letter is cast into the head. I had trouble
reading that on the 403 I recently pulled, when the motor was *out* of the
car. Good luck reading it in the car...

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Limited Landau Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 17:17:09 -0300
Subject: Re: Alternator hookup

At 01:17 AM 9/11/96 -0300, you wrote:

>>From the Service Manual:
>
>The wire going from the R terminal on your alt should be white. The wire
>from the F terminal should be blue or green. To check for correct wiring,
>perform a continuity check between the alternator to the external regulator.
>The wire from R on the Alt should show continuity to the #2 terminal on the
>regulator and the wire from the F terminal on the Alt should have continuity
>to the F terminal on the regulator.
>
>Hope this helps

Ahhh, yes!  That is exactly what I needed to know!  Thank you!
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 02:03:19 -0300
Subject: Re: w-45, w-46 

In a message dated 96-09-10 23:53:23 EDT, you write:

<< Can anybody out there list what was in the 1972 w-45, w-46 option package?
 I 
 know that it was some sort of special performance package.  I read that 1 
 station wagon from '72 had it, and was curious if anybody had seen it, or
read
 about it and could pass any info along. >>

According to my Option list W-45 was used a perf package used with
                              perf. rear axle of 3.23 and W-46 was a perf.
package with H.D. perf. rear axle of 3.42 with also Anti-spin axle

My assembly manual says 35W45 was a  L75  455 4bbl car with W29 exhaust
system only 35W46 got limited slip differential, perf rear axle 3.42, L77 eng
option 455 w 4bbl, and W30 exhaust system only deleted from the options was
spare wheel a tire, standard wheel hold down, fender side moldings and
scripts,
glove box script and nuts and paint stripes for W-25 option and hub caps.
I would say these are performance packages for any of the cutlass's including
the cutlass wagon but not the Vista Cruiser. So you could order the package
on a 4dr cutlass or even a cutlass supreme.  What you got was performance
options without the car being a 442 or W-30.

W Machines
72 442 W-30

------------------------------

From: "Robert J. Barry" <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 02:04:43 -0300
Subject: Re: 70 Hood info. 

At 11:14 PM 9/10/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Hello all! I've only been on this list for about 4 days now and am loving
>every minute of it! I wish I knew about this a long time ago since I've had
>net access since about last May. I'll guess I'll give a short story of my
>70 Olds Cutlass S as an intorduction.
>
>I bought it back in 1992 for $1500 with a missing shift rod from the 4
>speed trans. It had a factory 455 with a 4 speed in it. I wonder if this is

Was that originally a 2-bbl car? The 455 2-bbl was offered across the board
in the '70 Cutlass line until feb. of 1970. I always like the non-442
big-block Cutlasses and Supremes.

>a rare combination in a Cutlass S since I haven't seen a whole lot of
>factory 455 4-speeds that weren't 442's. The guy I bought it from wanted
>$1800 for it but I offered him $1500 as long as he tossed in an Edelbrock
>aluminum intake with it! I replaced the missing shift rod and the car ran

Great deal, too.

[snip]
>for about 2 years and I'm now in the process of rebuilding my first engine
>with a lot of Mondello goodies and some oil restrictors and better pump to
>keep that darn oil where it belongs in the oil pan! I'm in the process of

I just rebuilt my first engine, and I'm lovin' every minute of it. Good
luck! It will cost a fortune; approximate price of my rebuild:

Machine work: $1300
Engine rebuild kit: $600
Misc. pieces I didn't think of ordering at first, or had to run out to the
store to get the thing going at the last minute: $4000+ (or so it seemed...)

>looking for a  W-30 hood and need to know which year W-30 hoods are the
>same as my 70'? I've heard that the 70'-72's are all the same. I look

The '70 hood is different from the '71-'72 (grille opening is different). I
have heard that the '69 hood is the same, though (can't verify that for
sure). There seem to be two kinds of W-30 hoods out there:
* Affordable, but cheaply made and worthless for the street.
* Good quality (or original), but completely unaffordable.

>forward to the good info and advice I'll get on this list!
>
>Dave Holgate
>(am435@detroit.freenet.org)

Nice to have you here. What is the engine code on your car?

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Limited Landau Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 02:24:24 -0300
Subject: Re: 70 Hood info. 

In a message dated 96-09-10 23:24:33 EDT, you write:

<< 70 Olds Cutlass S as an intorduction. >>
Dave what part of Detroit are you from, and I want to welcome you.
If you are from the Detroit area, we are starting a new club the is 
performance orientated towards Oldsmobiles.  Right now we have 
42 members with Oldsmobiles from the Detroit Area.  I like to talk 
to you about your car.  I just spent my weekend at Norwalk Raceway
in Ohio and raced at the NMCA meet their.  My car ran a 12.471 at 108.65mph
and a 12.502 at 108.23mph.  Probably could help you also get parts 
locally for your Olds

e-mail me or call 313 336 8135  or W MACHINES@AOL.COM

THANKS 
W MACHINES (Mark Prince)
72 442 W-30 race rocket

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 02:25:54 -0300
Subject: Re: '67 Olds technical manual needed.

Glenn,
I have a 67 shop manual that I will sell for $50 + $5 shipping. Might also 
have 
the Fisher Body manual as well. If so, will sell that for $20+ $5 shipping.
If interested, please Email me at my address.

Art Fuller
mefco@sprynet.com

------------------------------

From: "Graham Stewart" <graham.stewart@utoronto.ca>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 02:25:50 -0300
Subject: Re: Exhaust manifolds

> In a message dated 96-09-09 01:39:13 EDT, you write:
> 
> << -I installed dual exhaust manifolds, numberes 402294 and 412287  >>
> 
> What engine size are we talking here?  I didn't need to change the
manifolds
> when I converted my '72 to duals.
> 
> Paul

Hi Paul ... It's a 455 on a '74 98.  The dual system calls for different
manifolds than the single.  They are quite a bit larger than the single
set, have a divider between the center port, the passenger side doesn't
have the port for the crossover pipe, and the driver's side points almost
straight down instead of back at about 45 degrees.  Consequently, they also
need different exhaust pipes.  

Graham Stewart
Toronto, Canada
graham.stewart@utoronto.ca

------------------------------

From: "Graham Stewart" <graham.stewart@utoronto.ca>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 02:28:13 -0300
Subject: Re: fueling

> >BTW, driving back and forth 160 miles a day in a 74 Ninety-Eight, I
might
> >as well tow along a fuel tanker.
> 
> Back in the days of steam engines, they devised a method for refilling
> the engine with more water while the train was in motion, saving a lot of
> time -- basically in-flight refueling. It was simply a very long trough
> down the track in between the rails, full of water, and as the engine
> passed over it they simply lowered a chute into the water, and the water
> came flying up the chute into the tender at 60 mph or so. A _real_ fast
> fillup.
> 
> So anyway, all you need is a similar setup for your big car, and a very
> cooperative highway department that will fill a trench with premium
> for you. For night time visibility, they could set it on fire, too.
> 
> Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431

Thanks a lot Andrew, I had a good laugh over that one.  

Graham Stewart
Toronto, Canada
graham.stewart@utoronto.ca

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 02:29:00 -0300
Subject: Re: reclining bucket seat

Thanks Paul,
You're probably right. I haven't seen one in a 70, just thought it would be a 
neat option to use.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #296
********************************
 
