To:	oldsmobile-digest @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET @ ABTLAB
Date:	08/01/96 02:23:01 AM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #253


oldsmobile-digest         Thursday, 1 August 1996      Volume 01 : Number 253


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 00:53:17 -0300
Subject: I met Chris B. Witt...... 

Last saturday I made a 275 mile trip from Akron, OH up to Lansing, MI to get
a 75 Hurst/Olds parts car off of Chris Witt. What can I say, Chris is a
character. A real nice guy and definite Olds nut. I pulled up and there he
was working on a rocket block in the back of his pickup. I hauled him up a
72 Cutlass S parts car that had a frame broke in two, missing front clip and
quarters that gradually got smaller on the way up due to the wind blowing
the pieces off rust off. Only an Olds guy could fall in love with this car
and Chris did...I had the protecto-plate and original thank you letter from
the dealer for buying the car and when I handed it to Chris his reply was,
"cool, I never had a protecto-plate before...." I had a chance to witness
the "collection" Chris does have a nice gathering of older olds up there. I
saw a 65 442 from hell that Chris was proud to have sold the alternator
brackets off of. It looks as if it was beaten by 100 people with bats and
then bent up in the rear...a nasty looking car. What really made the trip
worthwhile was getting several copies off the flier that Chris puts on those
olds that he sees. Truly a collectors item...they are very handy little
fliers that describe a little about Rocket Science and the parts he is
looking to buy. We have to convince him to get back on this mailing list! 

Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com)
1988 Camaro IROC-Z/28 5.0 bowtie power  
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25 5.7 rocket power     
HOCA member #0278A

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 01:04:52 -0300
Subject: any tips for good resto. books 

I am in the beginning stages of doing a complete restoration on my 75
Hurst/Olds and was wondering if anybody could suggest a good book to buy to
help with restoration. I built my Z/28 from the ground up with relative
ease, but the H/O presents more challenges. More age, wear and tear make
things harder. I need something thorough that covers interior cleaning,
detailing, painting, etc... 

Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com)
1988 Camaro IROC-Z/28...not your average 88 IROC Z 
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25...yes two of them!

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 02:45:42 -0300
Subject: Re: 455 "Bathtub gaskets"

The gaskets you refer to are "Torque Plus" gaskets.  They are, 
interestingly enough, distributed and were originally designed by a speed 
shop here in Hawaii.  These gaskets are, IMHO, wastes of money.  They 
will basically give you better atomization when your camshaft isn't 
pulling enough vacuum at low levels, with a tradeoff of some high-end 
flow.  Now why limit high end flow with a large camshaft?  This is a 
band-aid at best and the proper fix for producing more low end torque 
when atomization is a problem is to change your cam to one more suited to 
your application.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 02:54:46 -0300
Subject: Re: The search for yellow... 

At 03:12 PM 7/30/96 -0300, you wrote:
>>When I went to have my Vista Cruiser painted the same color as my '67
Delta - my buddy's local Big A Auto Parts (dont know if they go east your
direction....) had a catalog of the original color codes & paint swatchs.
I gave him the Olds code for '67 and  his paint supplier  got the formula
(warning, in the case of my Cameo Ivory, one of the two colors needed to mix
is "no longer available" so they winged it).  

Saffron was the color used on the Rallye 350's if I'm not mistaken.  Its a
pretty strong, primary yellow if you've never seen a Rallye 350.

If you  guys cant come up with the code - I can go back to my ol' Big A and
find out if they list it, etc.



I don't have Lisa's homepage address here, just go to the Webcrawler, and 
>>enter "Lisa Madsen", one of the first (if not THE first) listings should be 
>>Lisa's homepage
>
>Okay, got it; it's
>
>http://exo.com/~jht/olds/lisa.htm
>
>>check out the 442 from the cover of Car + Driver in 1968, on 
>>the top of the page, that's my car, and that's the color I want it to look 
>>like.  However, I also want to stick to original '68 Olds colors, so if the 
>>shade of Saffron yellow isn't close, I guess I'll be changing colors.
>
>Okay, that's definitely not '69 Mayfair Maize, so forget what I said this
>morning. I can think of some possible ways to get this color:
>
>1) Have Dan Williams suddenly pop up with the right color name and/or code
>
>2) Dig out a 1968 Cutlass catalog from somewhere and see if the colors are
>listed in the back (I'd think so)
>
>3) Find a touchup color chart in a good auto supply place that lists colors
>by year. I think the name could vary from one GM brand to another, but the
>paint code does not, and I kind of doubt that there'll be very many shades
>of 1968 yellow; we've already ruled out the really light one.
>
>Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
>Datalogics, Inc.
>441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
>Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473
>
>
>
Sincerely


Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 & '72 Vista Cruiser

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/lisa.htm

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 02:46:46 -0300
Subject: Re: Resto Tips .....

HOw about posting a bunch of these together into ONE post, when you have 
compiled them.  That would seem to save bandwidth which isn't one of this 
list's straonger suits.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 02:57:58 -0300
Subject: Re: Bryce's Offshoot - NOT 

At 10:13 AM 7/30/96 -0300, you wrote:
>>I put my home page up without having taken any serious looks at other Olds
pages 
I dont mean to sound testy but there are other Olds fanatics besides Bryce
(who is - arguably - one of the most computer proficient.....)

Just for the record

I saw a '69 w/an origianl yellow paint job, but it was sort of a 
>>weak lighter yellow.
>
>This is almost certainly what Pontiac referred to that year as Mayfair
>Maize. I would tend to think that shade was also used in '68, but would
>not necessarily be the only yellow available.
>
>>Is the yellow '68 442 convertable on the top of Lisa 
>>Madsen's home page close to Saffron - sort of a medium darker, richer
>>yellow? 
>
>Dunno. Will have to take a look. This home page is an offshoot of
>Bryce's www.442.com, yes?
>
>Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
>Datalogics, Inc.
>441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
>Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473
>
>
>
Sincerely


Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 & '72 Vista Cruiser

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/lisa.htm

------------------------------

From: ngomez@iadfw.net (Nick Gomez)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 02:06:56 -0300
Subject: Brake Problem 

I was parking in front of our house the other night, and pulled up so I
could back my big old car in. While pulling up, I applied the brake pedal,
but nothing happened! Put it in neutral and applied the emergency brake,
but I still hit my friends bumper. (Jeep Cherokee, nothing important.) The
impact of my 2+ ton car really bent his bumper, but just a scratch on mine.
He said I could replace it whenever I had the money. Great guy! =)

Now about my brake problem. It was like I had no pedal. I checked the fluid
next morning. Still there, so no leaking lines. Probably not the wheel
cylinders. If it was the power brake booster, I would have still had
brakes, but I would have had to stand on the pedal. So I'm guessing it's
the master cylinder. If you guys have a different view, please let me know.
I really appreciate your advice, take it easy...
Nick

      ------------------------------------------------------------------
      1965 Oldsmobile 98          TIP # 1048         Trade Live Concerts
      Dallas, Texas             MiSTie # 53344        Collect Hot Wheels
      ------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 03:07:30 -0300
Subject: Reply:  to everyone  

At 02:34 PM 7/30/96 -0300, you wrote:
>I agree completely with the idea - I go through mine every two to three
days & its time consuming to glance over them all.  

I hope everyone else is in favor - save us all timeOops.  I got 2400 mail
messages while I was on vacation.  Fearful of deleting 
>anything important, I carfully went through them all. 
>
>Since there are many posts to this list, I would like to propose a way for us 
>all to save a little time by using a simple scheme on the subject line:
>
>1) start with the year(s) that the post could apply to (if the post applies 
>to all years, just start the post with "all" insteat of the year) 
>
>2) followed by a leter/number code for  the model(s) the post applies to ("C" 
>for cutlass, "CS" for cutlass supreme "T" for Toro "98" for 98's etc.) 
>
>3) followed by the general topic
>
>A subject line for a post on... frame alignment holes for a '67 CS might look 
>like:
>
>'64-'67, 1st gen. A body, bent frame question
>
>What do you people think?  
>
>Doug
>mcclan@wsdot.wa.gov
>
>
Sincerely


Lisa Madsen

Heavy Metal Forever - '67 Delta 88 & '72 Vista Cruiser

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/lisa.htm

------------------------------

From: Esko.Ilola@Tele.telebox.fi
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 03:20:33 -0300
Subject: Brake Problem

Item Subject: Sanoman teksti
> I was parking in front of our house the other night, and pulled up so I
> could back my big old car in. While pulling up, I applied the brake pedal,
> but nothing happened! Put it in neutral and applied the emergency brake,
> ........

The older oldsmobile brakes work differently depending on the driving 
direction.
The brakes grep an LOT tighter when you brake in the formard direction. (You
normally drive forward, won't you?).

I had a similar 'accident' with my Pontiac Catalina (model 1962).

Today I'm aware of this phenomenon.

But it's still a good thing to have ordinary bumpers, not the plastic thing
supplied with the modern vechiles.


****************************************************
* Esko Ilola                                       *
* Email       esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi           *
* X400        G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Telephone   +358 2040 3439                       *
* Snail-Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*             01610 VANTAA                         *
*             FINLAND                              *
****************************************************
* Oldsmobile 98  1964  4D HT                       *
****************************************************

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 03:33:43 -0300
Subject: Re: Traction Aids

I think the difference between using no-hop bars and getting away with 
not using them comes in other-than-drag racing situations.  From what I 
can tell, the no hop bars favorably change the rear suspension geometry 
to make a difference not only while drag racing but when driving on the 
street as well, they help to get more power to the ground, where an 
airbag and a stock suspension would do nothing.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: "Dal Allan" <dal_allan@mcimail.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 03:53:30 -0300
Subject: Re:My_next_driveway_cover? 

I didn't know you there was so much interest in yellow..... 

>                               I think Dal Allan's '67 is that color and 
> he tells me it photographs very poorly. 

You've got a good memory Greg, and yes indeed 67 was the only yellow/yellow 
year. Kinds of lends an air of exclusivity but along with that comes the 
difficulty of restoration because nobody offers repro upholstery.

As to the colors. I do not count myself an expert on coloring but let me 
assure you all that yellow does not photograph well. 

My 67 is a Cutlass in Saffron Yellow
My 72 is a GS in Sunburst Yellow

The 67 brochures make a big thing out of Saffron:

 - p12  98 convertible front and side plus an interior shot (page width)
 - p28  Cutlass Supreme side view (page width)
 - p29  Cutlass Supreme convertible sky shot of interior 
 - p34  442 convertible 
 - p35  442 convertible front view (full page)
 - p37  Vista Cruiser w/o wood side view
 - p38  F85 driver side bumper/headlight view 
 - p44  Column of all models of Delta 88s

The full page shot on p35 is a great photo but the color looks more gold 
than yellow and there is a wide variation between most of the other photos. 

Buick's 72 brochure has a tiny square on the back page which looks nothing 
like the color on the car and there are no photos of yellow cars anywhere in 
the brochure. 

The bottom line here: 

 - Saffron Yellow is a soft color which looks great in the metal but lousy 
   in photos and I seriously doubt it would scan worth a damn. 

 - Sunburst Yellow is a harsh color which looks great in metal but lousy 
   in photos and I seriously doubt it would scan worth a damn. 

You got it, same comment. 

Despite using different speed Kodak films in various light levels from 
daylight to dusk, overcast or clear I have not yet succeeded in capturing 
the true color of either. No doubt a professional would know what filters to 
use (I have taken shots w/ and w/o the UV filter). 

Now, this may not be politically correct, but based on the reaction of folks 
to both cars let me pass on some observations. 

Saffron is an appealing color to women. My daughter calls it the Hollywood 
car and claims to feel glamorous like a film star when she is driving it. 
Girls from 18-30 walk up to me when filling up at gas stations to emote over 
the car and wish they could go for a ride (why didn't this happen to me when 
I was in college and didn't know which pheronomes to use to attract women?) 

Sunburst Yellow is an appealing color to men. The stronger color has a 
harsher tone and enhances the image of a GS455. Even guys who know zilch 
about muscle cars admire the way it looks and it attracts thumbs up. My wife 
thinks the car sucks and won't drive it. 

The mother of a friend is 70 (looks 50) was visiting from overseas. She 
insisted on having her photo taken draped over the hood of the GS in a 
cheesecake posture. Since returning home I'm told she refers to the car as 
testosterone and delights in showing off the photos at every opportunity. 

The 67 has a matching yellow interior and the 72 has a black interior. I've 
seen black interiors on saffron cars and they look good too.

Hell, this is rambling....., and all about a color nobody can see correctly 
except in the metal! 

Saffron is available from paint shops because the repaint on the 67 matches 
precisely under the hood and inside the trunk where we didn't have to paint.

Over and out. 

Dal 

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 06:43:29 -0300
Subject: Re: Rhodes Lifters: Yeah or Nay? 

>         Incidently, if a 442 is quiet enough to hear the lifters, then you
>probably don't need them!


     !!!!    Good call, Ron!!!!    :)


    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 455
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: JJF97@uno.cc.geneseo.edu
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 09:58:36 -0300
Subject: Resto  Tips  .....

 to the resto corner.  A question was asked by Pau.l

------------------------------

From: Esko Ilola <esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 09:01:54 -0300
Subject: Reapir kit for power steering gear box ?

Here in Fnland they could not give me a price for a 
repair kit for my power steering gear box.

If You know a dealer who could sell me such a kit, 
please give me his/hers contact info.

At year 1964 all models of Oldsmobile had the exactly 
same power steering parts, including the gear box.

I have been in contact with "Power Steering Services" 
and he promised to rebuild me one with a reasonable 
price.

However, I would like to rebuild the one that I have 
in my Olds now, too.

Well, now I have two dogs, my Hungarian vizsla and 
then this Oldsmobile. They both lift their leg, and 
let the urine run.....

****************************************************
* Esko Ilola                                       *
* Email       esko.ilola@tele.telebox.fi           *
* X400        G=esko S=ilola O=tele A=mailnet C=fi *
* Telephone   +358 2040 3439                       *
* Snail-Mail  Ukonkivenpolku 7B5                   *
*             01610 VANTAA                         *
*             FINLAND                              *
****************************************************
* Oldsmobile 98  1964  4D HT                       *
****************************************************

------------------------------

From: JJF97@uno.cc.geneseo.edu
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 10:29:39 -0300
Subject: Resto  Tips  .....

I first would like to thank all of you for the replys to resto corner.
I got a "?" from Paul R. K. Kuromoto basically asking "why not put a bunch of
tips together and save bandwidth?"  well a couple of reasons...

i dunno about other computer systems, but mine tends to lock up with huge
e-mail messages, which is why i keep things short.  Also, like the "to
everyone" messages,  people hate flipping through a lot of mail that doesn't
pertain to them.  The Resto tips is something that people can look forward to,
applies to all cars (not just a particular make and model), and if they are 
iffy about the oldsmobile site here (because they have an oldsmobile older 
than 1955), they will stay on and give valuable input to the group.

I hope this answers your "?", but as to save bandwith....
I drive a 1948 oldsmobile without an emmissions system.....
Heck, I don't even save the Ozone with that thing!!!   Bandwidth is even 
Lower on my priority scale!!!   ;)



For those of you who have locked your keys in your car, (or to prevent a
possible lockout) Here's a tip I learned from my father "The Locksmith".

magnetic boxes can rattle off, and on new cars with "plastic" there is a
difficult task to find metal to stick one to.

if you notice, 99% of license plates use flat headed screws....
drill out the handle of the key, put the key behind the license plate,
and put the screw through both the plate and the screw.

If you should ever get "locked out", all you need is a penny or a dime
or a screw driver to retrieve your key.  I've used it a few times so if you
do this, it will prevent an embarrassing situation for you too!


Please,  if you have a tip, please post it under the heading "Resto  Tips  ..."



Resto Corner

- --joe ferrero


 or a screw driver, to retreive your key.  I've used it a few times,  
tips togetherand save bandwith?"

------------------------------

From: Richard Bonazzoli <bonazzoli@5onflr.ENET.dec.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 09:32:08 -0300
Subject: RE: Anyone ordered a GM Special Tool? 

An inexpensive replacement for this tool can be made out of
the bottom half of a muffler clamp.  Find one that has a 
hole drilled in the center of the half-moon shapped piece,
and enlarge the hole to fit over the steering wheel post.
Simply place this piece over the post and tighten it down.
The "ears" of the clamp will push the lock plate down, allowing
access to the snap ring.

Rich

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 18:41:27 -0300
Subject: Re: Brake Problem

Nick Gomez wrote:
>.....
> Now about my brake problem. It was like I had no pedal. I checked the fluid
> next morning. Still there, so no leaking lines. Probably not the wheel
> cylinders. If it was the power brake booster, I would have still had
> brakes, but I would have had to stand on the pedal. So I'm guessing it's
> the master cylinder. If you guys have a different view, please let me know.
> I really appreciate your advice, take it easy...
> Nick


Nick, when was the last time you bled/change the brake fliud. The fuild could 
be moisture saturated causing the 
fuild to brake down. Something similar happened to me and it turned out to be 
a broken brake line, luckly it held 
while I was driving on the HWY. If you change you fliud check the master 
cylinder at that point. The moisture in 
the brake fuild will cause your lines and master cylinder to corode from the 
inside. A pitted master cylinder 
will cause the brakes to lose pressure as well.
- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: Frank Boerger <103454.317@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 09:47:07 -0300
Subject: SSII or SSIII  wheels ?

So now I have my '68 parts car on site, and am stripping everything I can (Greg
B., you can have a backup light assy for the price of shipping, but it will
probably be a few days until I can get to it...it may be kind of cruddy, but I
can blast it) which brings  me to the wheels...from my little bit of research, 
I
understand that the proper wheels for a '68 would be the SSI's or SSII's(2's
without bezels in '68 only).  SSIIs  were 14x6, were as the later SSIII's
(painted the upper body color) would be 14x7.  This car has a set of what
appeares to be SSIII's painted a dark metallic blue, which I felt for a daily
driver would be just fine.  

So I begin to clean off the crud, and I find "Product of Canada, 14x6".  

Did they make any SSIII's in the 14x6 width ??

Also, the area around the lugs should be painted a darker charcoal, right?  I
need a recommendation on both the silver grey and the charcoal colors...PPG or
something.

Greg B. let me know : 103454.317@compuserve.com

Thanks to all, 

Frank Boerger  - '68 Cutlass convertible  and holiday coupe
		"Now covering at least two acres of eastern Tallahassee, 
FL."	

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 12:59:29 -0300
Subject: Re: Brake Problem

Nick Gomez wrote:
> 
> So I'm guessing it's the master cylinder. 

No leaks, no pedal.  Sounds like a master cylinder to me.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Mike Coccagna" <mikec@oz.kis.net>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 11:21:17 -0300
Subject: Re: to everyone 

On 30 Jul 96 at 20:10, Mike Frederick wrote:

> NNnNN - Nah-nah-na-nah-nah.  "You ain't got a Toro" (OR a Quad)
> post.

Gee, respect from the Toro guy.  sniff, us Quad folks should ask the 
pay guy to send you an extra quart of oil this month....

Just kidding, I know you wouldn't have a need for it yet.  Thanks for 
the inclusion.		

Mike
'91 W-40 Quad442

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 13:37:21 -0300
Subject: Re: Traction Aids

Paul R. K. Kuromoto wrote:
> 
> From what I can tell, the no hop bars favorably change the rear 
> suspension geometry...

I sure Bob will correct me if I'm wrong but I was always under the 
impression that the function of the bars was twofold:

1) To reduce the tendancy the rear axle to "wrap" in the opposite 
direction from the wheel spin.  Wrap continues until it overcomes the 
traction of the tire then suddenly unwraps.  Then the cycle repeats.

2) To transfer the angular energy from the axle towards the center of the 
car, raising the body and therby the center of gravity which, in turn, 
increases weight transfer to the rear wheels.

> ... to make a difference not only while drag racing but when driving on 
> the street as well,

Depends on what you mean by street driving.  IMHO, I don't thing they 
would be of much benefit in cornering.

> ... where an airbag and a stock suspension would do nothing.

Nothing?

And where can I get a set for the Toro?   ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 13:57:18 -0300
Subject: Re: to everyone 

Mike Coccagna wrote:
> 
> > "You ain't got a Toro" (OR a Quad) post.
> 
> Thanks for the inclusion.

Hey, us advanced technology car guys need to stick together!   ;)

(OK, Duck!)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: tmorris@bt1dc18e.bet.ibm.com
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 07:02:30 -0300
Subject: Re: "GM" Floor Mats

I was at Carlisle last weekend and needed a carpet for my 442 and stopped in 
to the 
booth of Auto Custom Carpets.  Very courteous and informative guy.  Anyway, it 
turns 
out they sell their carpets to Year One.  He said you can buy the exact same 
carpet 
from Year One at less cost because they buy in bulk from ACC.  

Todd Morris
71 442 4 sp.



> 
> BRAD.NICHOLSON@ssa.gov wrote:
> > 
> > Tom,
> > 
> > Try Auto Custom Carpets @ (800) 633-2358.  A friend of mine got their 
Corvette
> > carpet kit and was very pleased w/ the quality.  They have custom cut mats 
for
> > each specific car, not the generic ones they sell at the front parts 
counter &
> > K-mart.  I think they have a web page also.  They also do custom 
embroidered
> > mats w/ logos includings a couple of Olds like the rocket from the 60's I 
think.
> >   Give
> > them a call and check their prices. They advertise as OEM specifications -
> > Quality, fit & apperance.

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 12:16:47 -0300
Subject: Resto Tips FAQ 

Here's my vote for sending them one at a time.

How about compiling them into a Resto FAQ?  How about an Olds VIN decoder FAQ 
also?  "And then there were three . . ."

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
Send Olds FAQ request to: dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
    Indexed HTML version: www.cps.msu.edu/~twomeysh/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 14:15:48 -0300
Subject: Car Photos  Was: My_next_driveway_cover?

Dal Allan wrote:
> 
> Despite using different speed Kodak films in various light levels from
> daylight to dusk, overcast or clear I have not yet succeeded in 
> capturing the true color of either. No doubt a professional would know 
> what filters to use (I have taken shots w/ and w/o the UV filter).

UVs and Skylights are to eliminate blue from broad-daylight photographs.
Not much help under other lighting conditions.	

If you are seriously trying to get the best photograph reproduction, 
here's two things:

1) DON'T use your drug-store processor.  They use computerized equipment 
which attempts to get it right based on average photographs having 
average colors.  Unusual lighting and/or colors confuse them.  Use a 
professional lab instead.

2) Take a least one frame of a color-card before and after the photos of 
the car.  This is a "test" card with calibrated colors available at most 
photography stores.  This will give the lab correct colors (for the 
lighting and exposure) to use when color correction the prints.  

> Girls from 18-30 walk up to me when filling up at gas stations 
> to emote over the car 

Is that hard to clean?   ;)


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 14:01:05 -0300
Subject: Re: Resto  Tips  .....

JJF97@uno.cc.geneseo.edu wrote:
> 
> Bandwidth is even Lower on my priority scale!!!   ;)

And mine.  If I liked Blob-O-Message, I'd be getting the digest.
I'd rather the short daily blurb.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: SG Hartfelder <shartfel@planet.eol.net>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 11:26:34 -0300
Subject: address change

My e-mail address on the Bryceman Web page has been 
incorrect since June 1st.

Please be aware that it should be:

shartfel@planet.eon.net

Hey Bryce, this is my 6th request asking you to 
please make the change.

Thanx.

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 10:24:08 -0300
Subject: Re: Brake Problem 

>Now about my brake problem. It was like I had no pedal.

I assume you mean that the pedal went to the floor, right? Not that
you had a solid pedal (with no power assist) that you couldn't move?

I've had a couple of cars where the pedal suddenly went straight down
to the carpet with no resistance, then worked fine as soon as I tromped
on it again. It's the master cylinder. I imagine you brake with your
right foot, on the right end of the brake pedal (actually it doesn't
matter which end you press on the pedal as long as you _always_ do it
the same way), and the slightly off-center pressure pushes a little
sideways on the cylinder in its bore, and eventually you get this wacko
slightly-oval wear pattern that suddenly lets the plunger leak fluid
down the side. What helped me diagnose the master cylinder as the culprit
was when I could make the pedal always collapse to the floor by pushing
kind-of-sideways on it with my right foot, but with my _left_ foot,
pressing in the _other_ direction, it was always fine. This was the only 
strategy that got me home one night.  :-(

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 14:39:27 -0300
Subject: Re: Olds Stolen

Lloyd Culp wrote:
> 
> I hope the kids from my classes aren't reading these posts.

Hey, they were the ones who told ME!

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 10:35:16 -0300
Subject: Re: Bryce's Offshoot - NOT 

>>Dunno. Will have to take a look. This home page is an offshoot of
>>Bryce's www.442.com, yes?
>
>I dont mean to sound testy but there are other Olds fanatics besides Bryce
>(who is - arguably - one of the most computer proficient.....)
>
>Just for the record

No problem. The only thing I was confused about was that you _do_ have
listings in Bryce's pages, although the picture in question wasn't on
those, and at the time I hadn't heard of any other URL of yours where
that picture might be found. Your page on Bryce's site does have your
email address (jht@exo.com) but no link to any other page. That's why
I couldn't figure out which page we were talking about...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 14:48:08 -0300
Subject: Re: to everyone 

Andrew C. Green wrote:
> 
> While your proposal makes sense, I just can't see it likely to catch on
> in a group that's barely mastered the art of not quoting entire 
> messages with "Me, too!" at the bottom.

Have to agree with Andy but there may be room for a little improvement.  
Simple catagories like "SALE", "NEED", "MISC", and of course "TORO" might 
not be a bad idea.  Me thinks that if everyone made their "Subject" a 
little more straight forward, it would help.  But I feel that a 
complicated coding scheme won't catch on.

"Honey, where's my Olds-List Code Book?"   ;)

And BTW, I never look at a blank subject message.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 10:54:26 -0300
Subject: Using Clear Subject Lines (was Re: to everyone) 

>Me thinks that if everyone made their "Subject" a 
>little more straight forward, it would help.  But I feel that a 
>complicated coding scheme won't catch on.

Second that. We need to have clear Subject lines, if nothing else.
You can't get much clearer than something like "Olds Stolen", for
example.

And for God's sake let's trim followups. Yes, quoting enough to
convey the discussion thread is good, especially since geographic
propagation is such that some people may see the reply before they
see the original message, but there's no reason why the whole original
note needs to get duplicated in followup...

Okay, shall we get back to Oldsmobile now? I have an old file around
here somewhere that I thought I'd post on how to hook up an automatically
switched (but otherwise fake) red "alarm" LED that will come on when the
car is switched off, which might be of some use.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 07:16:49 -0300
Subject: Re: Anyone ordered a GM Special Tool?

Richard Bonazzoli wrote:
> 
> An inexpensive replacement for this tool can be made out of
> the bottom half of a muffler clamp.  Find one that has a
> hole drilled in the center of the half-moon shapped piece,
> and enlarge the hole to fit over the steering wheel post.
> Simply place this piece over the post and tighten it down.
> The "ears" of the clamp will push the lock plate down, allowing
> access to the snap ring.
> 
> Rich

Rich:

Now that's a great idea.  I have a depression tool, but I'll have to 
make one of these.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 07:24:09 -0300
Subject: Re: to everyone 

Mike Coccagna wrote:
> 
> On 30 Jul 96 at 20:10, Mike Frederick wrote:
> 
> > NNnNN - Nah-nah-na-nah-nah.  "You ain't got a Toro" (OR a Quad)
> > post.
> 
> Gee, respect from the Toro guy.  sniff, us Quad folks should ask the
> pay guy to send you an extra quart of oil this month....
> 
> Just kidding, I know you wouldn't have a need for it yet.  Thanks for
> the inclusion.
> 
> Mike
> '91 W-40 Quad442

Mike:

I'm sure that respect was shown in error.  All of us Toro guys owe you 
an apology for that & I want to be the first to offer one & to recind 
that respect.  

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

PS:  ow do they get those Quad 4's to run so fast at the races?

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 07:32:50 -0300
Subject: Re: Bryce's Offshoot - NOT

Andrew C. Green wrote:
> 
> >>Dunno. Will have to take a look. This home page is an offshoot of
> >>Bryce's www.442.com, yes?
> >
> >I dont mean to sound testy but there are other Olds fanatics besides Bryce
> >(who is - arguably - one of the most computer proficient.....)
> >
> >Just for the record
> 
> No problem. The only thing I was confused about was that you _do_ have
> listings in Bryce's pages, although the picture in question wasn't on
> those, and at the time I hadn't heard of any other URL of yours where
> that picture might be found. Your page on Bryce's site does have your
> email address (jht@exo.com) but no link to any other page. That's why
> I couldn't figure out which page we were talking about...
> 
> Andrew C. Green            


Andy:

Nice apology.  I couldn't have confused it better.

Bill culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Michael Brady <drolds19@mail.idt.net>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 15:08:27 -0300
Subject: Re: Traction Aids

Paul R. K. Kuromoto wrote:
> 
> I think the difference between using no-hop bars and getting away with
> not using them comes in other-than-drag racing situations.  From what I
> can tell, the no hop bars favorably change the rear suspension geometry
> to make a difference not only while drag racing but when driving on the
> street as well, they help to get more power to the ground, where an
> airbag and a stock suspension would do nothing.
> 
> %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
>  I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
>  revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
>  information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
>  Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
>  been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
> %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% 
Paul, I have used traction bars for many years on many different
applications, YES they do work!! Along with the correct shocks
softer compound tires,etc.ect. I believe other members of this list
thought i was going to JUST use t-bars for a traction aid. The botton
line is you have several area's that need attention when you need to 
firmly plant the tires to the ground, take care !! Happy oldsmobiling.

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 05:47:44 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Olds Stolen 

     Are you talking about one of those flashing LED's intended to psyche 
     people into thinking you have an alarm?  If so, $19 is a rip off!  You 
     can get the parts for under $5 at Radio Shack, or under $1 if you have 
     a good electronics supply house.  I did this on an older Chevy I used 
     to have, nobody ever messed with it.  You need a flashing LED, a 
     resistor (probably about 600-1000 ohm, it's been a while since I've 
     had to figure this out) and one of the cool chrome LED holders.  Place 
     LED in holder, attach resistor in series with one lead of LED.  Run 
     cathode to a +12v hot wire, anode to an ignition switched +12v source. 
      Light will come on and flash when ignition goes off.  Easy as pie!
     
     Tom L.


______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Olds Stolen
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    7/30/96 7:16 PM


That really sucks about the car.  
     
I have installed about 5 of those flashing light deals and none of the 
cars I put them in have been stolen.  If you have a Crutchfield catalog 
you can get a kit for 19 bucks.  That is a little high but you can get 
all the wiring stuff for your stereo from them for free since you 
ordered the light.  Probably the best combo would be a fake light and 
something like and ignition kill switch or something similiar.
     
- -Dan
     

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 16:31:42 -0300
Subject: TORO: 'n Quads  Was: to everyone 

Lloyd Culp wrote:
> 
> PS:  ow do they get those Quad 4's to run so fast at the races?

They got a 425 stuffed under the seat.    ;)

(Duck!)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 14:05:56 -0300
Subject: Re: Ninety Eight 1964 4DHT in Finland -Reply

>>> <PHartlieb@aol.com> 07/29/96 08:59pm >>>
>In a message dated 96-07-29 15:10:18 EDT, you write:
>
><< reproduction lenses are available anyway.  :-) >>
>
>I am fairly sure that these "sail panel" courtesy lites are the same ones
>that my '67 98 uses.  New lenses are available from Fusick.  I replaced
>one my bulbs and the original, almost 30 year old lense survived.  The
>trick is to carefully pry those tabs out with a small flat head screw
>driver.
>
>Paul

I wouldn't be suprized if they are the same ones used in the 69 98's,
either.  And if so, they are the same ones used in my '72 Cutlass
Supreme.  You say you can get them from Fusicks?  How do I get a
Fusicks catalog?

------------------------------

From: JJF97@uno.cc.geneseo.edu
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 15:06:17 -0300
Subject: Resto  Tip Bonus .....

This tip relates to the "GM Special Tool" for the steering column.

Since my father is a locksmith, I asked him what he does in a situation
where he would have to remove the lock plate on the steering column.

He said "I use an old pair of external snap ring pliers that i grind the
outside edges fairly flat.  The flat tips will then fit into the space
in the snap / clip ring and spread it out enough that a small screw driver
can pry it up off of the groove in the steering column.  If you can get the
plate pressed down (using a gm tool or any other means) this technique to
remove the clip makes the job a lot faster and easier."

this is a bonus (for 2 tips in one day), but i saw the gm tool mentioned,
so i had to throw this in.


speaking of tool....

Did yoknow that "Peter O'Tool" is a double phallic name???

=)

Resto corner

- --joe ferrero  --

------------------------------

From: "Mike Coccagna" <mikec@oz.kis.net>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 15:03:40 -0300
Subject: Re: TORO: 'n Quads  Was: to everyone 

On 31 Jul 96 at 16:31, Mike Frederick wrote:
> > PS:  ow do they get those Quad 4's to run so fast at the races?
> 
> They got a 425 stuffed under the seat.    ;)

You forgot the 3500 lb curb weight with that Quad425!

> (Duck!)

quack!

Mike
'91 W-40 Quad442

------------------------------

From: "Mike Coccagna" <mikec@oz.kis.net>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 15:09:37 -0300
Subject: Re: to everyone 

On 31 Jul 96 at 7:24, Bill Culp wrote:

> All of us Toro guys owe you an apology for that & I want to be the 
> first to offer one & to recind that respect.  

Well, the unity of the Olympics has worn off already...

Just think of the Quad442s as little Toros and you'll feel better.  
Especially since our racing parts are just modified Toro parts 
(4/5ths size)!

Part out the Toros!  (just kidding.)

Still respecting those Toro guys...

Mike
'91 W-40 Quad442

Mike

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 13:11:37 -0300
Subject: Re: Resto  Tip Bonus ..... 

>If you can get the
>plate pressed down (using a gm tool or any other means) this technique to
>remove the clip makes the job a lot faster and easier."

Right; this is in fact all the GM tool _does_ do: it presses down on the
lock plate, against a pretty hefty spring underneath, to give you room
around the lock ring so you can pry it out of its recess. Once I get that
plate pressed down, I have snap ring pliers to extract the ring itself...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 14:31:41 -0300
Subject: ME TOO!: to everyone

> Andrew C. Green wrote:
> > 
> > While your proposal makes sense, I just can't see it likely to catch on
> > in a group that's barely mastered the art of not quoting entire 
> > messages with "Me, too!" at the bottom.
> 
> Have to agree with Andy but there may be room for a little improvement.  
> Simple catagories like "SALE", "NEED", "MISC", and of course "TORO" might 
> not be a bad idea.  Me thinks that if everyone made their "Subject" a 
> little more straight forward, it would help.  But I feel that a 
> complicated coding scheme won't catch on.
> 
> "Honey, where's my Olds-List Code Book?"   ;)
> 
> And BTW, I never look at a blank subject message.
> 
> The 66 Toro and Mike

Me too!

P.S.  Betcha all read it anyway.

- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-5450    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 14:37:14 -0300
Subject: RE: thermostat -Reply

>One thing to mention is that it only does this on HOT! days, over 80 
>degrees.
>
>cya442@erols.com

Over 80? 'Round here, 90 degrees is cool.  A *hot* day here is 120
degrees!  It was 100 degrees at 1:00 this morning...  Sound nice?  It is.

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 17:36:39 -0300
Subject: Re: TORO: 'n Quads  Was: to everyone 

Mike Coccagna wrote:
> 
> You forgot the 3500 lb curb weight with that Quad425!

Hmmmm.  Wonder if I can get the Toro into TOPS.

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 17:35:01 -0300
Subject: Re: to everyone 

Mike Coccagna wrote:
> 
> Just think of the Quad442s as little Toros and you'll feel better.

Yeah, that's the ticket.  Cute little Toros.  Yeah...

Now where's that guy with the Saab?

> Part out the Toros!  (just kidding.)

The 66 Toro (:o) and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "AUVAX7::RILES" <RILES%AUVAX7.decnet@auscam.amd.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 15:03:00 -0300
Subject: Fan clutches

Yo,

My '71 Cutlass sounds like a B-17 when I accelerate or at highway speeds.  The 
fan clutch is the thermostatic type.  When the engine is stopped, I can spin 
it 
about 1/4 turn before it stops.  Should it free-spin more?  Non-thermostatic 
clutches are available after-market, but GM replacements are the thermostatic 
type.  My understanding on how thermo-clutches work is that when the engine is 
hotter, the thermo-clutch free-spins less causing it to push more air, thus 
sounding more B-17-like.  So in slow traffic, when the engine is warmer, the 
fan does a better job, but at highway speeds, when everything is cooler you 
get 
more free-spin and less B-17 behavior.

Comments?

- -Robert Iles

------------------------------

From: "Jerry Childers" <FlashJRC@msn.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 15:27:32 -0300
Subject: RE: Vanity Plates (Was Re: '84 H/O's, steering gears, etc.) 

My plate is "RACE FAN". A touch one to get when you live just 20 minutes from 
Talladega. I own a Dodge Daytona IROC Turbo. Sorry guys. But I also have a 66 
442 and a 55 T-Bird

- ----------
From: 	oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca on behalf of Jerry Childers
Sent: 	Monday, July 29, 1996 8:24 AM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	RE: Vanity Plates (Was Re: '84 H/O's, steering gears, etc.)

There is a great vanity plate on a Vette here in B'ham: IXLR8 or "I 
accelerate".

- ----------
From: 	oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca on behalf of Andrew C. Green
Sent: 	Friday, July 19, 1996 1:45 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Vanity Plates (Was Re: '84 H/O's, steering gears, etc.)

>On vanity plates, saw a Vette last night that said, "MYIN".  As in,
>"Mine, mine, all mine, mwahaha!", I guess.

Nominations for _good_ vanity plates? I can think of two (we have a
seven-letter maximum in Illinois) I've seen in the past:

A dark-blue metallic '69 442:  DRK STAR

A nice Champagne Bronze SSEi:  MY WINGS


Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Jerry Childers" <FlashJRC@msn.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 15:25:27 -0300
Subject: RE: Olds Magazine? 

How do I get in touch with the Club to subscribe to the mag?

- ----------
From: 	oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca on behalf of 
DELPROPO@emuvax.emich.edu
Sent: 	Sunday, July 28, 1996 4:46 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	RE: Olds Magazine?

YES THE OLDSMOBILE CLUB OF AMERICA DOES..........???????

------------------------------

From: "John Bujosa, Assoc Director of Technology" <BUJOSA@gu.gonzaga.edu>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 17:27:21 -0300
Subject: '77 Olds

Greetings!

I have a '77 Oldsmobile Cutlass 'S' with a 403ci which my wife 
brought brand new before we were married.  It was sold as a Northwest 
Special package.  The only visible option, that I can tell, is that 
it has an emblem on either end of a chrome band that wraps around the 
top of the car.  The emblem has the number 1 with a crown on top of 
it.  Does anyone know of this package or how I might be able to get 
some information on it.  The dealers have long since gone.

Thanks in advance for any assistance!
John

John Bujosa, Associate Director of Technology
Computing & Information Services Department
Gonzaga University
Spokane, WA 99258-0001
EMAIL:  bujosa@gu.gonzaga.edu
VOICE:  509.328.4220  FAX:  509.324.5718
WWW:    http://www.gonzaga.edu

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 15:32:48 -0300
Subject: Re: '77 Olds 

>I have a '77 Oldsmobile Cutlass 'S' with a 403ci which my wife 
>brought brand new before we were married.  It was sold as a Northwest 
>Special package.  The only visible option, that I can tell, is that 
>it has an emblem on either end of a chrome band that wraps around the 
>top of the car.  The emblem has the number 1 with a crown on top of 
>it.  Does anyone know of this package or how I might be able to get 
>some information on it.  The dealers have long since gone.

*groan*  You may have missed it, but this sounds an awful lot like a
particular Cutlass "SKO" that was discussed in a somewhat, uh, lively
conversation about a month or so ago. The SKO turned out to be an
acronym for "Six Knights of Olds", which seemed to have been cooked
up by some regional ad agency. Here in Chicago around about that same
era we had a big promotion for the Cutlass "GMO", another lame acronym
which in this case stood for "Gallant Men of Olds". Sounds like you have
discovered what the northwest region was selling.

This leaves only a few parts of the country unaccounted for now. Perhaps
we will hear about a "Pioneer Special Edition" from New England, or a
"Hula Edition" from Hawaii?  :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 19:53:39 -0300
Subject: Re: '77 Olds

Andrew C. Green wrote:
> 
> Perhaps we will hear about a "Pioneer Special Edition" from New 
> England, or a "Hula Edition" from Hawaii?  :-)

I've got a Florida "Passed out on the Beach" edition Toronado.  
Just has a chalk outline on the hood.  ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 17:08:17 -0300
Subject: "Factory" Tools 

The part number is J23653-C, which I guess tells me (the "J" part) that
it's not Boston Tools, or whoever makes the "BT"-numbered tools. So who
makes the "J" tools? Is it in fact Lisle tools, and I'm running in circles?

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473


Andy:

I _think_ the "J-*" tools are made by Kent-Moore.  My service manual includes
the address and so forth but don't have it with me.  Try looking in yours.

I have purchased, in my lifetime, one (1) tool from such sources.  It cost
approximately it's weight in gold (or unobtainium), thus the single purchase.
 I usually struggle until I can make a universal tool fit, make it from
scratch (I don't need one to last for 2,786 jobs) or give up and pay to have
it done.  The last is done quite infrequently.  It amazes me how much time I
will spend to do something just to save paying someone else. :-)


Bob Handren                         OCA# 7728
'67 W-30 Modified                  '70 SX Convertible
Handren Associates, Inc.       Oviedo, FL
U.S. FDA Regulatory Affairs

------------------------------

From: eda@dl.tc.faa.gov
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 17:24:40 -0300
Subject: Re: Another busy weekend under the Toros 

Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net> wrote:

> Wouldn't the FAA frown on sucking 747's out of the sky especially after
> the recent tragedys in FL & NY?  Of course, how would they know when
> they are looking for a rocket going up after the planes; not one sucking
> them down & swallowing them up.

Hmmm, methinks I might have to tell headquarters to keep an eye on you
Toro people; we could have a real security problem if the virus keeps
spreading!

;-)
Ed Atlee			'77 Cutlass Supreme
eda@dl.tc.faa.gov		'84 Hurst/Olds
	R O C K E T	P O W E R E D ! !

------------------------------

From: "Brian Ashley" <bashley@alexandria.lib.utah.edu>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 17:38:22 -0300
Subject: RCPT: '77 Olds

Confirmation of reading: your message -

    Date:    31 Jul 96 17:27
    To:      oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
    Subject: '77 Olds

Was read at 14:38, 31 Jul 96.

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 18:22:54 -0300
Subject: Cowboy time -Reply

>>> "Chris Brown Witt"  by way of ndg@traverse.comNielsen Design
>Group <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu> 07/30/96 10:06am >>>
>Hello all, I am forwarding this on behalf of Mr. Chris Witt:
>
>The motor: shaved BV C heads, Toro UHC pistons, 10.75:1 REAL
>compression ratio,
>28-29 camshaft, new double springs, MSD/ HEI ignition, Edlebrock
>Torker?
>intake, etc. Hmmm... not in the 12's yet. I still think that a 750 carb is
>a bit small for all that.  At least it is running a double pumper now.

Hmm... What size is the engine?  According to the Carb book I was
reading at the library yesterday (forgot the name), 700 cfm is about all
that a high performance 350 can use.  Of course there are a lot of
factors that determine how much carb you need.  I don't know the
formula for figuring it out.  If I go back to the library any time soon, I'll
photocopy that section and transcribe it for ya... if you're interested.

- -BS

------------------------------

From: Ken <rottin@en.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 17:17:51 -0300
Subject: spotted: 1968 yellow 442

On my way home from work today I saw a 1968 yellow 442 parked in a 
driveway.  It was pale and washed out(bad color IMHO), but the car 
looked mint from 20 feet away.  Anyways, this guy talking about 
repainting his yelller 442 couldnt happen to live like 4 blocks from me 
in the South Euclid/Cleveland Hts. area, could he?  Sheesh, would be a 
small world.. :)

Ken
Cleveland, Oh 
1967 442 Convertible

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 19:55:39 -0300
Subject: Cars for sale in the Aurora, IL area 

1) Olds 1941 Sedan $3500/obo
'78 350, tilt
708-897-4051

2) Olds '75 Delta 88 convertible $3250
350, ps, pb, new paint
708-553-9283

Located approximately 50 miles west of Chicago

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 21:13:30 -0300
Subject: RE: Vanity Plates (Was Re: '84 H/O's, steering gears, etc.) -Reply

>My all time favorite is the VW Beetle that had "FEATURE".
>
>As in, not a bug, but a ...

Hee hee hee!  That's a good one!  I'm a software tester, and I hear that
all the time...

- -BS

------------------------------

From: Joe Bazzetta <bazzetta@i1.net>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 21:25:44 -0300
Subject: 1970 4-4-2

hi,
		I'm looking at a 4-4-2, 455cuin olds cutlass, it is in 
good condition, fair interior, but is missing some things like some 
chrome trim and it needs a new speedometer (much needed with a 442).  
Anyways the private seller wants $5250, but what should i pay.  I know u 
can't see or check out the car, but what do u think...would this car 
have bad matenince too?
 

		Please respond with 1970 442 info and price,
		Thanks    Joe

------------------------------

From: Chris Urban <urbanch@magi.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 22:17:54 -0300
Subject: RE: Traction Aids

I think that there still seems to be some confusion on this piont. I =
beleice Bob was saying that no question all thses bolt on traction =
devices work but so does the stock suspension when setup properly. Right =
Bob?

- ----------
From: 	Michael Brady[SMTP:drolds19@mail.idt.net]
Sent: 	Wednesday, July 31, 1996 2:08 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: 	Re: Traction Aids

Paul R. K. Kuromoto wrote:
>=20
> I think the difference between using no-hop bars and getting away with
> not using them comes in other-than-drag racing situations.  From what =
I
> can tell, the no hop bars favorably change the rear suspension =
geometry
> to make a difference not only while drag racing but when driving on =
the
> street as well, they help to get more power to the ground, where an
> airbag and a stock suspension would do nothing.
>=20
> %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
>  I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
>  revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
>  information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
>  Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
>  been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
> %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%=20
Paul, I have used traction bars for many years on many different
applications, YES they do work!! Along with the correct shocks
softer compound tires,etc.ect. I believe other members of this list
thought i was going to JUST use t-bars for a traction aid. The botton
line is you have several area's that need attention when you need to=20
firmly plant the tires to the ground, take care !! Happy oldsmobiling.

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 22:45:58 -0300
Subject: Re: The search for yellow... 

In a message dated 96-07-31 01:56:43 EDT, you write:

<< Saffron was the color used on the Rallye 350's if I'm not mistaken.  Its a
 pretty strong, primary yellow if you've never seen a Rallye 350. >>

Sorry, that was Sebring Yellow, Code 51, only offered in '70.  No yellow for
'71, then Sunfire Yellow in '72 only, code 56.  Code 51 returned for '73 as
Omega Yellow (Omegas only - who'd've thunk it).  '74 was Omega Maize.  '75
was Sebring Yellow again and was available on the Starfire, too.  '76 Code 51
was called Bright Yellow and was still just for the Omega and Starfire, but
they also had code 57 called Yellow for all but Omega and Starfire.  This
color looks to be the same as Saffron from the '60s.  Hmmmmm.  '77 still had
two yellows, but the "plain" Yellow code was changed from 57 to 50.  '78
"plain" Yellow was dropped.  '79 still had Bright Yellow, now they had Pastel
Yellow, code 54, too.  Still looks like Saffron.  '80 codes 51 and 54 are
gone, now they have code 50 Yellow.  "Sunnier" than Saffron, saw an '80
Toronado painted this color once, white vinyl top, black interior, YUK!  '81
code 50 is gone, code 51 Bright Yellow is back, not the same color as Sebring
Yellow 51 was, little bit more orange.  '82 yellow is gone completely.
 Aren't ya glad?  But wait, it's back, code 54 in '86 & 87, Yellow Beige, a
little beiger than Saffron.  And again in '92 & '93, code 55, Canyon Yellow,
a little beiger than Yellow Beige.  And now it's gone again, but don't be
sad, maybe it'll be back!  With Olds wanting to get the younger generation,
maybe they'll start offering this exciting color once again -- see, there's
still hope!

Are ya sick of yellow yet?

     Paul
     Everything you always wanted to know about yellow but were afraid to
ask.

     For those of you that may be interested, I would be glad to give you the
history of "Oldsmobile Yellow" from 1941 thru 1964! 

     I think I have too much free time.  Then again, if you read all this
stuff, maybe you have too much free time. :)

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 22:46:40 -0300
Subject: Re: Ninety Eight 1964 4DHT in Finland -Reply 

In a message dated 96-07-31 13:08:23 EDT, you write:

<< How do I get a
 Fusicks catalog? >>

Ask for one real nice.  Send $4 to:

     Fusick Automotive Products
     22 Thompson Rd  PO Box 655
     East Windor, CT  06088-0655

Paul

------------------------------

From: Dan Williams <dr_olds@kfmw.net>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 16:21:12 -0300
Subject: SS Wheels, brake lights, whatever

14 x 6 SSII wheels were made in years other than 68 (specificially 69).  
SSIIIs were not made as 14 x 6s as far as I know.  Has anybody here used 
the Ralley Wheel paint from Eastwood for their SSIIs?  Is is the correct 
shade of grey?  It is much cheaper than the paint they sell at places 
like year one. 

I got the brake lights working on the 68.  It was the turn signal 
switch.  Thanks for the help guys.  Also, as a bonus I now have turn 
signals.  Wow, turn signals and brake lights.  I'll feel a little safer 
next time I drive the car.

Hate to say this again, but I am still bummed about that 68 442 
convertible.  Let me know if anybody finds one for sale in the midwest.

> Uh, 74 degrees, 10:04 a.m. Hey, you're welcome.  :-)
 
Wow, the magic formula.  Now how do I get my oven to come on at exactly 
10:04 am.  Hmm.

------------------------------

From: "Paul R. K. Kuromoto" <suntzu@ohana.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 23:14:28 -0300
Subject: Re: Traction Aids

Okay from what I have read (will post a more specific post on this topic 
later), the no hop bars correct a basically incorrect geometry that comes 
on A-bodies from the factory.  The "instant center" of the car is 
determined by drawing imaginary lines through the control arms and 
continuing till they intersect.  For the suspension to use the weight of 
the car apply leverage to the axle upon launch, the instant center must 
be within the wheelbase of the car.  On a stock suspension, the instant 
center is in FRONT of the car, promoting wheel hop (a more explanatory 
post on this later).  Using no hop bars moves the instant center to a 
more correct position within the wheelbase, causing a more favorable 
"anti-squat" characteristic, or a better use of the weight of the car to 
plant the tires.  I will try to post some direct quotes from Herb Adams' 
"Chassi Design" later to clarify these points.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 I used to think that the Information age would spawn a great
 revolution as more people got smarter due to access to more
 information.  To the contrary, now that any idiot can use the
 Net, the integrity of the information contained therein has
 been corrupted.                          --Suntzu@ohana.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 00:04:41 -0300
Subject: Re: SS Wheels, brake lights, whatever

If SS11 wheels weren't made until 69, what were the wheels that looked just 
like 
SS11's called in 68?
I used the paint from Fusick's. Looks fine to me.

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 00:06:30 -0300
Subject: Re: The search for yellow...

Thank God for '82.

------------------------------

From: Buddha <buddha@itw.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 00:42:28 -0300
Subject: Re: SS Wheels, brake lights, whatever 

At 00:04 8.1.96 -0300, you wrote:
>If SS11 wheels weren't made until 69, what were the wheels that looked just
like 
>SS11's called in 68?
>I used the paint from Fusick's. Looks fine to me.
>
>

this is starting to look like a corvette owners group..."make sure you get
the correct runs and drips in the paint...and dont forget the overspray on
the muffler."  hehe

------------------------------

From: STEE911@aol.com
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 02:20:45 -0300
Subject: Fwd: Fan clutches 

your thought on the thermo operation of the fan clutch is correct==but they
do make different temp clutches<<but i dont know any ref. #'s==if you want to
sound like a bomber when runnin hi RPMs try a flex fan<<no clutch just blades
tha flex under higher RPMs==or better yet a gear drive cam<<straight cut
gears vs. helical cut gears will make your olds sound like a very big singer
sewing machine<<VERY BIG!!
or maybe a blower??? 3in belt drive???

P.S. anyone know any suppliers with a decent priced gear drive for a 455??

- ---------------------
Forwarded message:
From:	RILES%AUVAX7.decnet@auscam.amd.com (AUVAX7::RILES)
Sender:	oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Reply-to:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
To:	oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca (oldsmobile)
Date: 96-07-31 14:14:19 EDT

Yo,

My '71 Cutlass sounds like a B-17 when I accelerate or at highway speeds.
 The 
fan clutch is the thermostatic type.  When the engine is stopped, I can spin
it 
about 1/4 turn before it stops.  Should it free-spin more?  Non-thermostatic 
clutches are available after-market, but GM replacements are the thermostatic

type.  My understanding on how thermo-clutches work is that when the engine
is 
hotter, the thermo-clutch free-spins less causing it to push more air, thus 
sounding more B-17-like.  So in slow traffic, when the engine is warmer, the 
fan does a better job, but at highway speeds, when everything is cooler you
get 
more free-spin and less B-17 behavior.

Comments?

- -Robert Iles

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #253
********************************
 
