To:	oldsmobile-digest @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
From:	oldsmobile-digest-owner @ ccn.cs.dal.ca @ INTERNET @ ABTLAB
Date:	09/06/96 04:39:40 PM
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #291


oldsmobile-digest         Friday, 6 September 1996      Volume 01 : Number 291


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 16:37:09 -0300
Subject: Re: Back home again!

Mike, nice story and congratulations on that find. I was just in Lansing on
July 28th, I purchased a 75 H/O parts car from Chris Witt. I might be making
the trip to Lansing next summer with my 442.


>I can't wait to see you all in Lansing next summer.  I have very much
>enjoyed listening to your conversations, and have learned much in the
>past month.
> 
> 
>Thanks,             '66 442
>Mike Turley         turley@symplex.com

________________________________________________________
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) or (jlabay@kent.edu)
Grad Student in Sports Administration at Kent State University
1988 Iroc Z/28	1974 Buick Riveria Stage I 455
1980 4-4-2 W-30	1975 Hurst/Olds W-25
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ----------------------

------------------------------

From: Drew <senko@reston.ans.net>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 16:35:20 -0300
Subject: Decoding VIN's

Remember a while back someone said it would be nice to have a VIN decoder
on the web?  Well, I've written one that will eventually reside on
Bryceman's web page as soon as it has more complete data.  So far it is
based on the information in the September issue of JWO (pp. 12-13).

Now it needs all the info that wasn't in that JWO!  In case you aren't a
member of OCA, the September JWO showed how to decode a VIN for a 1964 -
1988 Cutlass.

The decoder program needs VIN data for Toronado's, full-size cars (88/98)
and anything else (Achieva) that wasn't in the article (pre-1964 and
post-1988).  I believe I have all of 1971 covered from my own sources (which
may possibly cover 1968-1971).

Mike Frederick and Greg Kalkhoff have agreed to send me Toro VIN info.
Chris Witt has sent me some info and a list of VIN's for testing the
program.

I have made the info that I currently have available on my web page at
http://members.gnn.com/senko/vin
You can check the page(s) listed above to see what I already have.

VIN info is grouped as follows:

    Country (1981-88 = 1 digit)
    Manufacturer (1981-88 = 1 letter)

    Division (3 = Olds)
    Series (1964-71 = 2 digits; 1972-80 = 1 letter; 1981-88 = 2 letters)
    Body Style (1964-88 = 2 digits)
    Engine (1972-88 = 1 alphanumeric)
    Mystery Digit (1981-88 = 1 digit of who knows what?)
    Year (1964-71 = 1 digit; 1972-80 = 1 alphanumeric; 1981-88 = 1 letter)
    Assembly Plant (1964-88 = 1 letter)

I have Country, Manufacturer, Division, Year and Assembly Plant pretty well
covered (for 64-88).  I need the most help with Series, Body Style, and the
Mystery Digit in 81-88's.

If you have info to add, please e-mail it to me at senko@reston.ans.net.
I will incorporate it into the VIN decoder program and the reference pages
listed above.  Please include the year with any VIN info that you give me,
so that I can be sure to put it in the right place.

When this gets all done it should be a useful tool on the web.
Thanks in advance for any help!
- -- 
                    _
                    |\            Convertibles                     
     .__====-_._____|_\______         Rule!                        Drew Senko
     [   ___  |-     |  ___  \                           senko@reston.ans.net
     =\_//.\\_|______|_//.\\__)                  http://members.gnn.com/senko
_________\_/____________\_/__________________________________________________

------------------------------

From: Todd Morris <tmorris@bt1dc18e.bet.ibm.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 17:54:15 -0300
Subject: Re: '70 442 (was: New Toro..Not) 

 
5-6K is reasonable for this car if the drivetrain is top notch, ie. rebuilt 
with  
serious and careful machine work and namebrand parts.  Drivetrain condition 
seems to be the big variable here, given that everything else is not great 
but OK. 
 
Todd Morris 
71 442  
 
 
 
Forwarding note from: Blair Rendell <brendell@ECNET.ec> 	Thu, 5 Sep 
1996 15:35:38 -0300 
   
At 09:24 PM 9/4/96 -0300, you wrote: 
>Todd Hall wrote: 
>>  
>> Checked out the 442 last night: 
>>....>  
>> I think $6500 is a little high, am I wrong? I was thinking about offering 
>> around $5800 and hope he bites, but I don't think the price is very 
negotiable. 
>>  
>>  
> 
>Todd, 
>	I tjink the price is too much. The fact that it has w-30 emblems and 
not 
the correct  
>engine parts tells me that either it a wannabe W-30 car (fake) or that it 
was infact a W-30 car  
>at one time and parted out through the years, in which case too bad it's 
not a W-30 anymore.  
>Alot $$ need to get into that class again, for the buyer that is. Anyway, I 
would offer no more  
>than 5000 and that's pushing it. 
>--  

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 20:00:33 -0300
Subject: Re: Back home again!

Mike Turley wrote:
> 
> Long Posting! Good story.

Excellent story!  Congratulations.

> I must resist the temptation to sign my E-Mail "The 66 442 and Mike".    
The 66 Toro and Mike   (:o)


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: "ROB MALLAND" <storm442@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 12:40:51 -0300 
Subject: '73-442 parts or sources wanted

Hello, I have a 1973-442 and although most parts are regular Cutlass parts I am
still having trouble finding interior parts like a rear package (tray) shelf
and the (Fisher Body) door sills.. Has anyone restored a '73 or know who to
contact for general parts (I have a 1993: YearOne, Fusic, Brothers,and Supercar
cataloges) but they are not "aware" of any 442's built after '72.

Help !!
       -Rob


- ---------------------------------------------------------
Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- ---------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: "ROB MALLAND" <storm442@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 16:30:48 -0300 
Subject: Parts/info for 1973 - 442

Hello, I have a 1973 442 and although most of the parts are regular Cutlass
items- I still have a hard time finding parts for these.  Has anyone restored
or worked on a '73 ? The interior parts are difficult 
to find like: (fisher body)door sills or the rear package (tray) shelf
I have most of the standard catalogs but "Supercars, Fusick,Brothers," 
and others are not "aware" that 442's were made after 1972.

Short of Salvage yards has anyone located new parts for this year ?

Thanks, 
Rob.


- ---------------------------------------------------------
Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- ---------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: Daniel Gulino <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 17:01:38 -0300
Subject: Re: Decoding VIN's

On Thu, 5 Sep 1996, Drew wrote:

> Remember a while back someone said it would be nice to have a VIN decoder
> on the web?  Well, I've written one that will eventually reside on
> Bryceman's web page as soon as it has more complete data.  So far it is
> based on the information in the September issue of JWO (pp. 12-13).
> 
> Now it needs all the info that wasn't in that JWO!  In case you aren't a
> member of OCA, the September JWO showed how to decode a VIN for a 1964 -
> 1988 Cutlass.
> 

Yes, except that it was totally screwed up for the '64s.  If you want to 
see how to decode any 1964 Olds VIN, see 
http://ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu/~gulino/rides.html
and scroll down to the bottom to find the appropriate link.  I also 
have full info on how to decode 1975 Olds VINs.

Abou the '64 VINs, in short, they are of the form

834M225982.

The first digit is the number of cylinders, so it's always either a 6 or 
an 8.

The second digit refers to the series, with 3 in this case referring
to the Jetstar 88.  

The 4 is simply the model year (1964).

The M is the manufacturing plant (M=Lansing, MI)

And the last six digits are the production sequence number.

So there is NO information in the 1964 VINs about which division this is, 
and the engine information is minimal (no cubic inch or carburetion info).

As I said, anyone who tries to decode a 1964 Old VIN based on what they 
said in that article in JWO will be pulling their hair out in no time.





Dan Gulino

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 17:18:10 -0300
Subject: Re: '86 442 

At 02:48 PM 9/5/96 -0400, you wrote:
[snip]
>wondering if someone could answer a question I have.  The car has a slight
vibration in it around 55 to 65 mph and then seems to disappear.  I have
checked the balance of the wheels, installed new tires, checked u-joints,
etc.  I have also rebuilt the rearend (bearings were burnt up) and rebuilt
the transmission (torque converter shot and planetary gear missing a spacer
and burnt).  I have no clue what else could be wrong.  Other than the
vibration the car is like brand new and has all the options available.  It
does't seem to affect the way the car runs its just annoying. Any help would
be appreciated.

One possibility is that your driveshaft is unbalanced, or that it was bolted
to the rear axle pinion 180deg. from the way it was installed (factory
manuals warn you against doing things like that, though I'm not sure it's
that critical).

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 17:18:12 -0300
Subject: Re: a color for Tiny 

At 02:24 PM 9/5/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Suggestions received so far on a color for Tiny 
>(Tiny is a '69 Olds 98 Convertible with a black interior and top)
>
>> Can I suggest a good medium to navy blue
>> or target red like my 66 with a black top/interior.
>
>I've thought about blue off and on, but I have yet to see a shade
>of blue that goes well with the black interior and top.  The only
>blue convertibles I've seen lately (well, since I started looking
>for a color) have had blue or white tops.  I keep thinking that 
>with the right shade of blue this would work, but I can't find
[snip!]

One color that is nice with black is a Silver, as seen on many of the early
Rivieras. Not gray, but a metallic Silver, perhaps with a tinge of blue. Now
_that_ would be a nice color...

>- Travis and the 69 olds 98 convertible aka "Tiny"
>
>--
>Travis McWaters                           Transmission Products Division
>tmcwater@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com               DSC Communications Corporation
>
>

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 17:25:15 -0300
Subject: I Drove a Toro!!!

A friend of mine gives me a call last night and says he bought a new car.
I ask him what kind.  He says just come over and see it.  Lo and behold
it's a pristine black 1970 Toronado W-34.

He says he's waiting for a phone call and asks me if I want to
take it out and buy some beer.  I say, "Okey-dokey!"

So, there I am sitting at this red light.  An old man on an old Harley, both
looking about 90 years old, pulls up next to me.

The old man looks over the sleek, shiny surface of the car and asks,
"What kind of car ya got there, sonny?".

I reply, "A 1970 Oldsmobile Toronado W-34.  400 Horsepower.  Detroit Iron."

The old man asks, "Can I take a look inside?"

"Sure" I reply.

So the old man pokes his head in the window and looks around.  Leaning
back on his Harley, the old man says "That's a pretty nice car,
alright!"

Just then the light changes, so I decide to show the old man
what this car can do.  I floor it, and within 20 seconds the
speedometer pegs 120.  Suddenly, the I notice a dot in my rear
view mirror.  It seems to be getting closer!

Whhhoooooooooossssshhhhhh!  Something whips by me!  Going two, maybe
three times as fast!

There I am, wondering, "What on earth was that!?"  Then, ahead of me, I see
a dot coming toward me.

Whooooooooooosh!  Goes by again!  And, it almost looked like the old
man on the Harley!  "Couldn't be," I think.  "How could an old Harley
go that fast?"  Again, I see a dot in my rearview mirror!

WhoooooooshhhhhhhhKa-BbbbblaMMMMM!  It plows into the back of the Toronado,
scratching the bumper.

I jump out, and heavens to betsy, it is the old man!  Of course,
the Harley and the old man are hurting for certain.  I run up to
the old man and ask, "Are you all right!  Is there anything I can
do for you?"

The old man replies "Yeah.  Unhook my suspenders from the side-view
mirror on your car!"

- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-5450    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 12:23:47 -0300
Subject: Re: Speedo Waver (was: Halls Visit -Reply)

> >
> >Extremely good words to the wise.
> 
> Thanks, but I was quoting... (wait for it)... a Ford manual.  ;-)
> 
> Andrew C. Green            

Andy,

If Ford people don't know about Fix Or Repair Daily, who does?  We can 
learn from even the enemy if we try.

Bill culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 17:48:02 -0300
Subject: Re: HEI Nightmare! -Final Reply  -Reply 

>>> Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca> 09/04/96 09:13pm >>>
>Blaine,
>	I don't know what your relationship to this mechanic is but do
>yourself a favour  and drop this loser. That last thing you need is
>someone to do as he pleases on your  property and to take your money
>to boot. I really hope he doesn't screw your car up one  day.
>--  Regards
>Fernando Proietto

Thanks for the advice =).  It's really not that bad, though.  My relationship
to him?  Well, we've been friends since 6th grade.  He doesn't charge me
anything, and quite often he hooks me up with parts at his cost (about
30% less).  And most importantly, I don't let him touch my car unless I'm
there... which is what scares me about this situation.  It's not running and
it's at his house!  I have the keys... but he can still get under the hood. =( 
If he dinks something up, I won't talk to him till it's fixed.  He hates it 
when
I do that...

- -Blaine

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 20:50:16 -0300
Subject: Re: I Drove a Toro!!!

Robert Lawrence wrote:
> 
> The old man replies "Yeah.  Unhook my suspenders from the side-view
> mirror on your car!"

HA!  ROTFL!  And another urban legend is born!

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 20:52:26 -0300
Subject: Re: Speedo Waver (was: Halls Visit -Reply)

Lloyd Culp wrote:
>
> If Ford people don't know about Fix Or Repair Daily, who does?  

Don't ask.

> We can learn from even the enemy if we try.

"We have met the enemy and he is us" -- Pogo

The 66 Toro and the d*mn 84 Lincoln and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: buehner@cis.nmclites.edu (buehner)
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 17:49:38 -0300
Subject: Heatin' Up 

     Well, it's time to tap into this vast resource base of knowledge once
again.  (A quick refresher, I finally bought that '67 98 Convert. and put
the fresh 425 in the Rockit.)  I got the thing fairly well broke in, and
then took a road trip to my home town.  I'm having major cooling problems.
I'm running a 180 T-stat, new 3 Row rad, new fan clutch, and have tried both
6 and 7 blade fans.  I can cruise around town all day and night, and never
leave 180. If I get on it a lot, I might see 200.  I get on the highway, and
it heats way up (Hood on or off)  My trip to Scobey(245 miles each way) saw
roughly 230 at night between 60 and 75 mph.  The trip back in the day saw an
avg. of 240 all the way at 60.  The faster I'd go, the hotter it'd get.
Never boiled over.  Coolant level OK.  I'm still running the 3:23's, and 60
runs around 2900 RPM.  I can cruise through town at 3000 RPM in first, and
not heat up nearly as much (although it does increase a bit.)  I don't have
spark knock problems, and the Holley I'm running stays rich more often than
not, so I don't think air/fuel/spark are affecting much.  The fan shroud is
in good shape, the condensor is clear, and I"m not running AC at that
temperature.  
     I'm considerring three possibilities:  The engine and exhaust is taking
up too much room in the engine compartment, so the airflow through the
radiator may be restricted "behind" the radiator??  Doesn't seem to change
much with the hood off, but that could alter the airflow dynamics of the
system a lot worse, to where the air couldn't flow through at all, I'm
thinking...
     The water pump could be failing, although I'm under the impression that
it's new, and would expect the overheating to occur at lower rpm's instead,
if that were the case.
     The coolant could be flowing ~too~ fast to efficiently soak out the
heat (remember the big discussion on that a while back that left everyone
scratching their heads???)
     The spring is in place on the lower rad. hose.  I've heard of those
collapsing at higher rpm's.  
     Anyone else have suggestions, comments, ideas, meetoo! episodes, etc.??

     PS.  The car ~does~ haul ass!  I love this motor!!!
    
      Charley Buehner       | "buehner@cis.nmclites.edu"
      Box 1255              | Montana State University-Northern
      Havre, Montana 59501  | http://cis.nmclites.edu/~buehner
      "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
      "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
             (Real Cars Don't Wear Bowties!)

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 17:52:46 -0300
Subject: Re: Back home again!

On Thu, 5 Sep 1996, Mike Turley wrote:
> Some of the important details:
>  
> 1966 442 Holiday Coupe
> Air Conditioning
> Jetaway 2-Speed Auto.
> Optional rear speaker.
> Paint code DD - light blue.
> Light blue interior, white vinyl top.
> All original dealership selling papers. (Original price $4,442.20 - cool)
>  
> Original everything!! Except tires, seat covers and paint.  Originally a
> Texas car.  No rust or dings EVER.  Still have 1 set of keys on original
> dealer ring with center punches still intact (never used?)

Mike, that sounds like one sweet car. I love the color scheme too. Don't 
let it slip through your fingers again, OK? :)  You're one lucky guy to 
find a car like that... and from the sounds of it, a wife like that too. 
I'm envious two times over....

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 17:57:48 -0300
Subject: Re: Parts/info for 1973 - 442

On Thu, 5 Sep 1996, ROB MALLAND wrote:
> Hello, I have a 1973 442 and although most of the parts are regular Cutlass
> items- I still have a hard time finding parts for these.  Has anyone restored
> or worked on a '73 ? The interior parts are difficult 
> to find like: (fisher body)door sills or the rear package (tray) shelf
> I have most of the standard catalogs but "Supercars, Fusick,Brothers," 
> and others are not "aware" that 442's were made after 1972.
> 
> Short of Salvage yards has anyone located new parts for this year ?

The "Olds Today" I just got today mentions that there is a new OCA 
chapter devoted to '73-'77 Cutlass coupes like yours. It's called the 
Oldsmobile Cutlass Coupes club (OCC). The article mentions that one of 
it's reasons for existence was the parts availability problems you describe.

For info, write:

Oldsmobile Cutlass Coupes Club
c/o John Zimmer
4237 Lookout Road
McFarland, Wi
53558

It says to please include your name, address, phone #, OCA # and year of 
vehicle. Membership dues are $15/year. Hope this helps.


Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 20:49:34 -0300
Subject: Re: '73-442 parts or sources wanted

ROB MALLAND wrote:
> 
> Hello, I have a 1973-442 and although most parts are regular Cutlass parts I 
am
> still having trouble finding interior parts like a rear package (tray)

 
I am in a similar situation with restoring my 1975 H/O. In general parts 
interchange on 73 up to 77 models with some differences though. I got my 
package tray out of a 77 Cutlass and all my interior panels out of that 
car too. I have tried everywhere for parts and they all stop at 72. I 
might be able to get parts for you as I have about 5 Cutlass's from 73-77 
saved at my family's junkyard. Tell me what you need and I will tell you 
if I have it and in what shape. I know where a 73 Cutlass sets now at a 
local junkyard. I got the doors off that car for my 75.

Jason Labay

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 18:08:33 -0300
Subject: Free Book From Olds!

I just read in Olds Today that come October or thereabouts, members of 
OCA (along with NAOC and the Curved Dash club, Olds dealers, and Olds 
employees and retirees) will be getting a *complimentary* copy of the 
book, "Setting the Pace: Oldsmobile's First 100 Years". It is written by 
Helen Earley and Jim Walkinshaw and documents the entire history of 
Oldsmobile. The article says it is a 496 page, hard cover book, and that 
Oldsmobile financed the printing of 50,000 complimentary copies. 

Wow! Thanks so much, John Rock and Oldsmobile! More than makes up for the 
OCA membership dues by that alone. This is amazingly generous, and I look 
forward to seeing it when it comes. Nice to see Oldsmobile recognizing 
the contribution of OCA members by doing such a nice thing.   

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 13:14:20 -0300
Subject: Re: Back home again!

> 
> On Thu, 5 Sep 1996, Mike Turley wrote:
> > Some of the important details:
> >
> > 1966 442 Holiday Coupe
> > Air Conditioning
> > Jetaway 2-Speed Auto.
> > Optional rear speaker.
> > Paint code DD - light blue.
> > Light blue interior, white vinyl top.
> > All original dealership selling papers. (Original price $4,442.20 - cool)
> >
> > Original everything!! Except tires, seat covers and paint.  Originally a
> > Texas car.  No rust or dings EVER.  Still have 1 set of keys on original
> > dealer ring with center punches still intact (never used?)
> 
> Mike, that sounds like one sweet car. I love the color scheme too. Don't
> let it slip through your fingers again, OK? :)  You're one lucky guy to
> find a car like that... and from the sounds of it, a wife like that too.
> I'm envious two times over....
> 
> Greg Beaulieu        

Mike,

Congradulations.  It couldn't happen to a nicer couple.  That is 
wonderful that both of you are a little crazy & fortunate too.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 13:08:32 -0300
Subject: Re: I Drove a Toro!!!

Robert Lawrence wrote:
> 
> A friend of mine gives me a call last night and says he bought a new car.
> I ask him what kind.  He says just come over and see it.  Lo and behold
> it's a pristine black 1970 Toronado W-34.
> 
> He says he's waiting for a phone call and asks me if I want to
> take it out and buy some beer.  I say, "Okey-dokey!"
> 
> So, there I am sitting at this red light.  An old man on an old Harley, both
> looking about 90 years old, pulls up next to me.
> 

> 
> The old man replies "Yeah.  Unhook my suspenders from the side-view
> mirror on your car!"
> 
> 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Robert Lawrence  

Robert,

You should be ashamed to tell a story like that.  I surely did enjoy it 
though.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 13:11:23 -0300
Subject: Re: Speedo Waver (was: Halls Visit -Reply)

> >
> > If Ford people don't know about Fix Or Repair Daily, who does?
> 
> Don't ask.
> 
> > We can learn from even the enemy if we try.
> 
> "We have met the enemy and he is us" -- Pogo
> 
> The 66 Toro and the d*mn 84 Lincoln and Mike
> 
> --
> Michael R. Frederick, CEO          


Mike,

Somehow I forgot about you - or at least tried very hard.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 17:26:00 -0300
Subject: Another Olds in a movie sighting

Years ago I saw a movie called "Rebel of the Road."   It was a late '70's 
B-movie that was about a bunch of kids in their late teens who spent all 
their time racing cars .  One of the main characters (the bad guy), was 
wealthy, and had a '69 442 that was really beefed up.  I am suprised that I 
remember the name of the movie, because I haven't seen it in at least 15 
years, but fortunately, that movies name was branded in my memory banks. 
 The movie was pretty cool, because the 442 was in it A LOT!  I have checked 
with many of the local movie stores here in St. Louis, and no one has ever 
heard of it.  Has anyone else heard of it, and/or know where to obtain it? 
 Please let me know.

Jeff Zeilmann
SMTP:jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com
'68 Cutlass Supreme, '69 Cutlass S Convertible

ps.  Thanks Dave for the Year One info!

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 17:23:48 -0300
Subject: Re: Heatin' Up 

At 05:49 PM 9/5/96 -0300, you wrote:
>[...a lot...]

I read through that a couple of times but none of it points to one thing,
so I'm reduced to guessing at some unrelated possibilities:

- -- I don't think you said anything about new hoses. Are the old ones mush?
Maybe the lower is collapsing, as you suggested.
- -- The 3-row radiator isn't flowing enough. Is a bigger one available?
(i.e. too much engine for this radiator)
- -- The water pump is cavitating, or at least not doing enough at higher
speeds.
- -- The system pressure isn't up where it should be, due to either a bad
cap or some minor leak somewhere (e.g. hose pinholes, water pump weep
hole), and the lower pressure is allowing some coolant boiling and a
resultant vapor lock in the block galleys.

Um, where is that average of 240 on your scale? Is it at all possible 
that 240 would be an okay temperature under the circumstances?

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 11:18:01 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: a color for Tiny 

     Yeah, silver on top with black on the bottom!  Maybe some red and 
     orange stripes to sepparate them too :-)  I'm kinda partial to that 
     paint scheme!
     
     Actually, I think a darker charcoal grey metallic would look great on 
     those cars, esp. with a black interior.  Probably wouldn't be as hard 
     to care for as black since it's a daily driver.  I was talking to my 
     brother who used to work in the detailing business and he says that 
     silver is a hard color to get to look nice (from a detailers 
     standpoint).
     
     Tom L.
     '84 Hurst/Olds


______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: Re: a color for Tiny
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    9/5/96 1:47 PM
     
One color that is nice with black is a Silver, as seen on many of the early 
Rivieras. Not gray, but a metallic Silver, perhaps with a tinge of blue. Now 
_that_ would be a nice color...
     

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 17:47:20 -0300
Subject: Re: Re[2]: a color for Tiny 

>     Actually, I think a darker charcoal grey metallic would look great on 
>     those cars, esp. with a black interior.  Probably wouldn't be as hard 
>     to care for as black since it's a daily driver.  I was talking to my 
>     brother who used to work in the detailing business and he says that 
>     silver is a hard color to get to look nice (from a detailers 
>     standpoint).

It's also a nightmare to match if spot painting is required for any
reason. But it was popular back then; I remember those "Youngmobile"
ads from National Geographic and such with the big silver 98... think
that would have been around 1969 or so...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Katana72@aol.com
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 19:26:58 -0300
Subject: Re: more on motor swap 350-cutlass 

1- dunno
g- dunno
3- divisional code- olds
ar- cutlass supreme
47-coupe( cutlass supreme, cutlass calais, cutlass supreme brougham)
a- 3.8 ltr 2v
5- model year
er- not sure, but e= linden n.j., r= arlington, tx
the last six numbers are the plant sequential code.

btw, I put a 350/th350 in a 81 wagon with no mods, except the cross member,
which came out of a 79 wagon with a diesel. That style cross-member should
fit your th400.
you'll probably have to massage the body a bit to provide clearance for th
tranny. I also used the stock 73 engine mounts and tranny mounts.I could see
headers being a problem, but a diesel exhaust would provide more than
adequate flow. GOOD LUCK !!!!

------------------------------

From: eric_b_buckner@non-hp-om.cv.hp.com
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 19:34:11 -0300
Subject: Toro-Toro  was Re: 4 on the floor, Toro for sale...

Item Subject: Re: 4 on the floor, Toro for sale...was Re: W-43
     
I wouldn't be able to do a major rebuild but minor repairs (ie 
seals/gaskets/heads) I can afford. So if it comps out and runs decent I am, of 
course, very interested.
Thanx,
Eric.

______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: Re: 4 on the floor, Toro for sale...was Re: W-43
Author:  Non-HP-oldsmobile-owner (oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca) at 
HP-Corvallis,mimegw1
Date:    9/5/96 9:55 AM


     
     
> Scott,
> I'd be very interested in the engine and tranny (455 and TH400). If you do 
go 
> and look at it think you could see if he's willing to part it out? If not I 
> guess I could buy the whole thing and drive it back here (if it would make 
it)
. 
> Where are you at?
     
        Called the guy last night, and got the bad news.  He sold it the 
night before!  Rats.  I guess you have to go for these things right away, 
since at that price, they're bound to go quick.  Sorry.
     
        *But*, if you or anybody else is looking for an early Toro engine, I 
know of one in a junkyard over in CdA, Idaho.  It's a 68, which should 
mean (unless things were changed on it) big valve C heads, topping a 
455!  Last time I saw it, it was pretty much complete (still in the car), 
minus the carb. The rest of the car was in pretty poor shape, and large 
chunks of bondo were coming off.  I hope to get over that way before too 
long, so if anybody is interested, I'll take a look.  I can also call for 
a price.  This is yet another "I would buy it if I had the money, and a 
car to use it in" kind of deals for me.
     
     
     
                                Scott
                        1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

From: Katana72@aol.com
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 19:38:58 -0300
Subject: Re: '86 442 

another possibility is that the torque converter is 120 or 240 degrees out.

------------------------------

From: eric_b_buckner@non-hp-om.cv.hp.com
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 19:44:04 -0300
Subject: Re: Decoding VIN's

     
Adding the production numbers of each style would be neat as well. So if I 
punched in my numbers I would get the type, original engine, ect and how many 
were built. I have no idea how difficult this would be but sure would be 
interesting to know. 
Eric.


______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________

------------------------------

From: OLDSPWR@aol.com
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 19:46:31 -0300
Subject: 73 442 Parts For Sale... 

With all this talk about 73 442 parts, I figured I would post some parts I
have for sale:

442 Hood:  This hood is rust free and straight.  I would like to get $50 for
it.  I live in north eastern PA, so shipping will cost a fortune (probably
over $100).  If anybody is close by, it would be worth the trip to get it.  I
have seen these hoods for $150-$250 so $50 is a deal....   

I also have a set of factory gauges along with the speedometer which I would
like to get $50 for.  I will also throw in all the woodgrain dash pieces.  If
you need anymore info, frop me a line.

I no longer have the car, so these are the only parts I have.  The quarters
and doors were completely rotted and both front fenders were roughm, so it
went to the boneyard.

Tom Millard OLDSPWR@aol.com
717-842-4434

------------------------------

From: Chris Fair <ChrisFair@fairisaac.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 20:04:56 -0300
Subject: High Speed Cooling probs 

I have a 98 conv with ported&polished 455 and holley 780 too. Mine
ran hot on the highway too even tho I had a *4* row rad, overfill
tank and good water pump, 160 degree thermostat and 2 electric fans.

What seemed to help at high speed was rejetting the carb to #73 
primary and #74 secondary jets (richer than before). I'm running
2.73 rear end and don't really beat it up much on speed because
it's old. Suggest you look at the jetting and go up one jet # on
the carb both primary and secondary. Then maybe advance the timing
to "knock point" Hope this helps.

Mine still runs hot at idle. I haven't figured this one out.
cf

------------------------------

From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 20:05:12 -0300
Subject: Re: '73-442 parts or sources wanted 

Rob, my buddy Dennis here in Michigan can help. He has a couple
73 H/O's and tons of 73 442 parts and a 74 H/O and more misc
parts.  He collects and sells 73-77 Cutlass and 442 parts.

call him at 313 386 3735 after 6:00 pm eastern time


W Machines  (Mark Prince)

------------------------------

From: Aaron Neumann <neumann.12@osu.edu>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 20:22:30 -0300
Subject: Re: Another Olds Movie Car Sighting 

>I'm saying cheezy because I don't think that I could drive a car that I was 
>conceived in...  I have no reply for your thoughts on late night station wagon
>love making (even if it is Olds).
>

Well, my parents had their honeymoon in the car I drive. I don't know where
I was concieved, and I sure as heck don't want to know...   Back to movies,
can one not forget Demolition Man?  Nice cameo appearance!  Sorry if this
has already been brought up, I've been in and out...  

 _____
|  |  |* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
|  |  | Aaron Neumann St. Marys, OH  *
|  |  | neumann.12@osu.edu           *
| /|\ | 72 Delta 88 Royale Conv.     *
|/_|_\|* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *	

------------------------------

From: DESIMONEP@aol.com
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 21:47:23 -0300
Subject: Block Casting #557265-4A 

Well, I have one of these in my garage. It was the engine that was in the car
(1968 Olds Cutlass "S" Convertible) when I purchased it. I have since
replaced it with an appropriate 455 of that year.

So, I just glanced at the posting, what block do I have, and does anyone want
it, I have no use for it, I was going to throw it away! I'm in San Jose, CA.

Philip De Simone
1968 Olds Cutlass "S" Convertible
desimonep@aol.com

------------------------------

From: Brad Baker <bradbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 21:54:50 -0300
Subject: Re: Used SS wheels

At 00:53 09/05/1996 +0000, you wrote:
>In a message dated 96-09-04 20:07:01 EDT, you write:
>
><< (==----==) Rear '68 >>
>
>I don't know, that front end thing was pretty nifty, but that rear end thing
>sure does look like a '67 GTO!!!
>
>Paul
>
Hey! You be nice or I'll send you a 500k GIF file!! It was the best I could
do on only one line. I guess I'll just stay with the front end.

Brad  (0-0||||0-0) '68 CS Convertible

------------------------------

From: Brad Baker <bradbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 22:05:44 -0300
Subject: Re: Decoding VIN's

At 19:35 09/05/1996 +0000, you wrote:
>
>When this gets all done it should be a useful tool on the web.
>Thanks in advance for any help!
>-- 
>                    _
>                    |\            Convertibles                     
>     .__====-_._____|_\______         Rule!                        Drew Senko
>     [   ___  |-     |  ___  \                           senko@reston.ans.net
>     =\_//.\\_|______|_//.\\__)                  http://members.gnn.com/senko
>_________\_/____________\_/__________________________________________________
>

Nice looking car!!! See what I started!!

          ________
         /________\
Brad    (0-0||||0-0)  CS Convt
 

------------------------------

From: Daniel Dale <daleds@okra.millsaps.edu>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 22:18:07 -0300
Subject: 68 442...should I buy it? 

I've been offered a 68 442 for $500. it has no engine, good trans, a 2.56 rear
out of a 70 cutlass, has primered replacement fender, door, and hood on left 
front, interior decent, but seats could stand to be recovered. 

since the original motor is long gone, is this car worth fixing up? I was 
planning on making a driver out of her. 

is there any vin decoding info. in the faq that would be applicable?

TIA

Dan Dale daleds@okra.millsaps.edu http://www.millsaps.edu/~daleds/index.html 
cars: 1972 Cotner-Bevington Oldsmobile 98 Endloader, 1966 Pontiac GTO, 1973  
Imperial LeBaron, 1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-X, 1955 Cadillac Seville, 1969  
Cadillac DeVille Convertibles (2), 1976 Cadillac Series 75 Fleetwood Brougham
1961 Imperial Custom, 1973 Buick Riviera                                     

------------------------------

From: Roger Heath <rheath@worldbank.org>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 22:11:09 -0300
Subject: RE: Heatin' Up

           Charley Buehner
          At 05:49 PM 9/5/96 -0300, you wrote:
          >[...a lot...]
          A couple of ideas. 
          First the odd ball one which comes to mind from a low oil 
          pressure gauge reading that gradually developed with a Citroen 
          2CV (lovely little 40 cu. in. runner...). Naturally I first 
          changed the filter, then dismantled the oil pump, then replaced 
          the oil pressure relieve valve. All to no avail. The problem was 
          that the alternator had failed and the battery voltage had run 
          down (I was starting it with a crank. Is that at all posible on a 
          455?) with the result that the bimetallic strip in the gauge was 
          not seeing enough current and was thus reading low.  Maybe, if 
          there is the same bimetallic system on the Olds, your problem is 
          the reverse and the voltage regulator is giving too high a 
          voltage at high engine speeds.  No doubt Andrew Green can readily 
          demolish this idea.
          
          The other idea is that there is a flow restriction somewhere. You 
          might try removing the thermostat completely and seeing if there 
          is any significant change for the better. If so, it would tend to 
          support the flow restriction idea, and if it isn t caused by the 
          thermostat, it would at least narrow things down.
          
          Roger Heath, 71 Delta 88 Royale Convertible
          

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 1996 13:47:50 -0300
Subject: Re: Used SS wheels

At 01:03 AM 9/5/96 -0300, you wrote:

>W Machines  just call me collect  and we will make
>arrangements unless you already gave the rim away
>
>thanks again  W MACHINES

Sorry, buddy...they're gone.  That was quick, too.  That little four letter
word (FREE) is quite a motivator!  They have the pop on caps, anyway, not
bolt on.
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Daniel R Burk <ws6transam@voyager.net>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 01:47:29 -0300
Subject: Re: '77 Olds Toro 403 motor story

I just had to relay this story:

In 1991, I bought a house in Saginaw.  The people were moving to Tennesee 
and the high school son had this '77 Toronado that was rusting in the 
driveway.  I told them that we'd buy the house, and he could leave the 
car there is he signed the title over.  Well, they were happy to be rid 
of "The Black Tornado", and I had one hell of a winter beater.  It needed 
an exhaust system, didn't have a radio, needed a tune-up, belts, hoses, 
and (as the winter wore on) new brakes. Also, the driver's window was 
shot out.  

After I tuned it up, the darned thing started so easy that I couldn't 
believe it!  Also, it would go 3000 miles on an oil change with only 
about a quart of oil loss!  (And with those collapsed front brake lines, 
it would do some great slides....)  I got 12 MPG with the Tornado too!  I 
probably would have gotten better if the darned door panels would have 
stopped flapping in the breeze, too.  Lets see, I put about 10,000 miles 
on it that winter.

In the spring, when the left brake line blew apart, and the right caliper 
froze, thus sending the pads into a flaming mass, I realized the Trans Am 
was due to come out of hiding.  So, I began looking to sell the Toro.  I 
didn't have any room for it, and I didn't have the time to yank the 
motor.  I did sell it --  To a guy I knew who had a '72 W30 Oldsmobile 
442.  Mike bought the car from me for sixty bucks.  ($10 more than the 
junkyard would give me.)

A few weeks later, I went over to his house, and there were black tire 
marks painted all over his street!!  I mean, a real tire fry-fest!!  The 
Olds was gone, but the motor was in his garage.  The rest of the car, he 
sold to the bone-yard for fifty dollars, thus giving him a ten dollar 
engine.  The tire marks were from the Toro, as he spent an afternoon 
power-braking the car to see if the transmission would hold up.  Yep, it 
did, and the tires were shredded to cords. (They still held air, I guess, 
as he towed the car to the yard on 'em)  

Mike took that engine and built a drag race motor out of it for his 442. 
He wanted to preserve his W30 as I guess not too many were built in 1972.
As far as I remember, the only thing he had to do to the bottom end of 
that motor was a hone and a new set of rings.  It had approx. 95,000 
miles on it when I sold it.

Geez, I wish I still had that motor.

	-- Dan.

------------------------------

From: Daniel R Burk <ws6transam@voyager.net>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 01:50:21 -0300
Subject: Melbourne cruise in

Say Dave, do they still cruise into Double's Hogies on Wednesday night 
there in Melbourne?  What about Suzie Q's on Saturday?

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 1996 14:15:02 -0300
Subject: Re: Melbourne cruise in

At 01:50 AM 9/6/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Say Dave, do they still cruise into Double's Hogies on Wednesday night 
>there in Melbourne?  What about Suzie Q's on Saturday?

Yeah, they do.  Scott Vanderspool (know him?) brings his Oldsmobile(s) up
there sometimes.  He's got a couple nice looking ones.  I've never taken my
Olds up there.  I live about half a mile from that intersection where
Double's is.  Don't know about Suzie Q's.  I've never been up there.  It's
in Cocoa, isn't it?
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: "Mark Bethke Jr." <mbethke@btigate.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 23:13:04 -0300
Subject: 68 & 69 455

I am a delivery driver in North Dakota. My daily route is made up of
small towns. The other day I was at a bone yard and they had five 68 to
69 Tornado's. So I took a closer look with the small amount of time that
I had. I found three that still had the 69 455 in them. So I asked the
owner if he had any 68 Toro motors and he said he had one.
   I was wondering if anyone would know what the 68 & 69 455 motor
complete was worth. It sounds like I could get one for about $200. Is
this a fair price??
   I was also wondering, one of the 69 Toros is in very good shape with
the motor still in it. It also looked as if all the parts were still on
it. How much would something like this be worth as a whole car??

Thanks,
Mark Bethke Jr.
77 Toro (small block 403)

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 23:13:00 -0300
Subject: Re: Another Olds Movie Car Sighting 

>Back to movies,
>can one not forget Demolition Man?  Nice cameo appearance!  Sorry if this
>has already been brought up, I've been in and out...  

Yeh!  Too bad that had to smash it up though.  It was a nice example.
Wasn't there a Toronado in Last Action Hero?

Roger Borlase
http://www.microdata.com/rborlase

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 1996 14:33:21 -0300
Subject: Re: Used SS wheels

At 10:03 AM 9/5/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Assuming you're really referring to a wheel cover and not a hubcap, this
>description seems to fit Hollander #4015. Does each of the one-inch ribs
>have about six mini-fins in between? Has it got "O L D S M O B I L E"
>twice around the perimeter?

Uhh, what's the difference between a wheel cover and a hubcap?  I never knew
there was a distinction.  Just called everything a hubcap.  But yes, each
large one inch fin has _five_ smaller fins in between.  And yes, "O L D S M
O B I L E" is found twice around the perimeter, about 2 1/2" in from the
outside edge of the wheel cover (notice correct terminology!), in letters
about 3/8" high, spaced about 1" apart.

Are they available as a repro?  That'd be cool.  Well, if you needed them...
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: "Mark Bethke Jr." <mbethke@btigate.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 23:23:58 -0300
Subject: Re: Block Casting #557265-4A

DESIMONEP@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Well, I have one of these in my garage. It was the engine that was in the car
> (1968 Olds Cutlass "S" Convertible) when I purchased it. I have since
> replaced it with an appropriate 455 of that year.
> 
> So, I just glanced at the posting, what block do I have, and does anyone want
> it, I have no use for it, I was going to throw it away! I'm in San Jose, CA.
> 
> Philip De Simone
> 1968 Olds Cutlass "S" Convertible
> desimonep@aol.com

I think that is a 403 With solid webed mains. I have a 403 with casting
number 557265 4B and it has windowed webed mains. If it is a 4a you may
have a rare motor.

Mark Bethke Jr.
77 Toro (small block 403)

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 1996 14:50:52 -0300
Subject: Re: Heatin' Up

At 05:49 PM 9/5/96 -0300, you wrote:
>I'm having major cooling problems.
>I'm running a 180 T-stat, new 3 Row rad, new fan clutch, and have tried both
>6 and 7 blade fans.  I can cruise around town all day and night, and never
>leave 180. If I get on it a lot, I might see 200.  I get on the highway, and
>it heats way up (Hood on or off)  My trip to Scobey(245 miles each way) saw
>roughly 230 at night between 60 and 75 mph.

Do you have a fan shroud on the car??
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: Dave Paulison <dpauliso@metrolink.net>
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 1996 15:06:55 -0300
Subject: Re: Block Casting #557265-4A

At 11:23 PM 9/5/96 -0300, you wrote:

>I think that is a 403 With solid webed mains. I have a 403 with casting
>number 557265 4B and it has windowed webed mains. If it is a 4a you may
>have a rare motor.

Sorry to burst your bubble, guys, but I don't think anyone has _ever_ seen a
solid web Olds 403.  It's been kind of an Olds legend.  They may exist, and
4A blocks are the ones to check.  If yours has solid main webs, I'd like to
see it.

Remember, no 4B blocks have solid webs, only some (very few) 4A blocks.  In
fact, if you have a solid web 4A block, I'd say it's one in a million (well,
that entirely made up statistic _may_ be slightly exaggerated).  It would be
_VERY_ rare, anyway.

Where's Chris Witt when we need him?
- --
Dave Paulison          Melbourne, Florida        69 Cutlass Supreme
dpauliso@metrolink.net

------------------------------

From: "Graham Stewart" <graham.stewart@utoronto.ca>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 23:49:53 -0300
Subject: Power Steering Hoses

opps, sorry about that incoherent message, sent by my error.

Anyway thanks again for the advice on changing the hoses.  This also served
as a lesson (again) on not buying tools made offshore.  The flare wrenches
I had were bought in a pinch last year: made by Uni-Tool, but definitely
made somewhere else.  There's a lot of tools here in Canada the only
information about place of origin you find is "imported by (some generic
distributor)".  If you ask the store clerk, they usually say that means
made in USA, but as a friend once put it: "Americans are pretty proud of
the stuff they make and advertize it; if it doesn't say Made in USA, it's
made offshore".  Anyway, the imported 5/8 inch flare wrench was a bit more
than 5/8 and couldn't loosen the pressure hose nut on the pump.  Finally
had to cut the pipe and use a socket as Tom Lentz suggested ... 

So thanks again for the help

Graham Stewart
graham.stewart@utoronto.ca

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 00:05:07 -0300
Subject: Re: Free Book From Olds!

I sure hope they come through with that. What a great thing for Olds to do.
Like you said it definitely makes up for the membership dues. Thanks a bunch
to the Rock and Olds!

>Wow! Thanks so much, John Rock and Oldsmobile! More than makes up for the 
>OCA membership dues by that alone. This is amazingly generous, and I look 
>forward to seeing it when it comes. Nice to see Oldsmobile recognizing 
>the contribution of OCA members by doing such a nice thing.   
>
>Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
>

________________________________________________________
Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio (z28cfi@gwis.com) or (jlabay@kent.edu)
Grad Student in Sports Administration at Kent State University
1988 Iroc Z/28	1974 Buick Riveria Stage I 455
1980 4-4-2 W-30	1975 Hurst/Olds W-25
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ----------------------

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 00:19:18 -0300
Subject: Re: a color for Tiny 

In a message dated 96-09-05 19:07:39 EDT, you write:

<< Suggestions received so far on a color for Tiny 
 (Tiny is a '69 Olds 98 Convertible with a black interior and top) >>

How 'bout Saffron Yellow?

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 04:13:33 -0300
Subject: Re: Power Steering Hoses

Graham Stewart wrote:
> 
> but as a friend once put it: "Americans are pretty proud of the stuff 
> they make and advertize it; if it doesn't say Made in USA, it's made 
> offshore".  

Ya know, that's damn nice to hear.

The 66 Toro and Mike

- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 20:11:41 -0300
Subject: Re: Heatin' Up

buehner wrote:
> 
>      Well, it's time to tap into this vast resource base of knowledge once
> again.  (A quick refresher, I finally bought that '67 98 Convert. and put
> the fresh 425 in the Rockit.)  I got the thing fairly well broke in, and
> then took a road trip to my home town.  I'm having major cooling problems.
)
>      The spring is in place on the lower rad. hose.  I've heard of those
> collapsing at higher rpm's.
>      Anyone else have suggestions, comments, ideas, meetoo! episodes, etc.??
> 
>      PS.  The car ~does~ haul ass!  I love this motor!!!
> 
>       Charley Buehner       | 


Charley,

I don't see the exhaust causing any trouble.  Rev the engine to about 
2000 rpm's & it should suck a piece of paper against the front of the 
radiator.  While you are getting the engine revs up, check the hoses to 
see if one obviously collapses.

With a timing light, make sure that the distributor actually advances 
when the RPM's go up.  Did you test that thermostat?


If these aren't enough good ideas, I'll try to think of some bad ones 
later.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

------------------------------

From: Robert Bishop <rbishop@iAmerica.net>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 01:18:21 -0300
Subject: RE: Another Olds Movie Car Sighting -Reply 

At 03:32 PM 9/4/96 -0300, you wrote:
>>'71 because the grill is like a checkboard.  My '72 wagon's grill has 
>>horizontal strips.
>
>Not necessarily so.  The original grille on my '72 is a checkerboard...  I
>thought the horizontal strips were '71.
>
>
>
>The 71 has grills that are multiple vertical strips that have one
horizontal strip in the middle, while the 72 is the checkerboard. 


         
         

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 01:26:23 -0300
Subject: RE: Another Olds Movie Car Sighting -Reply 

>The 71 has grills that are multiple vertical strips that have one
>horizontal strip in the middle, while the 72 is the checkerboard. 

So which cutlass models of the 72 model year have the checkboard and which 
have the horizontal strips?

------------------------------

From: DESIMONEP@aol.com
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 03:23:31 -0300
Subject: Block Casting #557265 4A 

OK guys, so I have this motor. (I'm glad I kept it in the garage, and not put
it outside or something!) What is the difference between windowed and solid
webbed mains. I have all my engines built by an engine shop and then I
install them myself, so I am unfamiliar with that term. 

Phil De Simone    1968 Olds Cutlass "S" Convertible    desimonep@aol.com
- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -----------------------------
mbethke@btigate.com (Mark Bethke Jr.) wrote:

>I think that is a 403 With solid webed mains. I have a 403 with casting
>number 557265 4B and it has windowed webed mains. If it is a 4a you may
>have a rare motor.
>
>Mark Bethke Jr.
>77 Toro (small block 403)

THEN dpauliso@metrolink.net (Dave Paulison) wrote:

>Sorry to burst your bubble, guys, but I don't think anyone has _ever_ seen a
>solid web Olds 403.  It's been kind of an Olds legend.  They may exist, and
>4A blocks are the ones to check.  If yours has solid main webs, I'd like to
>see it.
>
>Remember, no 4B blocks have solid webs, only some (very few) 4A blocks.  In
>fact, if you have a solid web 4A block, I'd say it's one in a million (well,
>that entirely made up statistic _may_ be slightly exaggerated).  It would be
>_VERY_ rare, anyway.
>
>Where's Chris Witt when we need him?

------------------------------

From: glenn connors <gpc442@buffnet.net>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 00:26:22 -0300
Subject: Re: Heatin' Up

>     Well, it's time to tap into this vast resource base of knowledge once
>again.  (A quick refresher, I finally bought that '67 98 Convert. and put
>the fresh 425 in the Rockit.)  I got the thing fairly well broke in, and
>then took a road trip to my home town.  I'm having major cooling problems.
>I'm running a 180 T-stat, new 3 Row rad, new fan clutch, and have tried both
>6 and 7 blade fans.  I can cruise around town all day and night, and never
>leave 180. If I get on it a lot, I might see 200.  I get on the highway, and
>it heats way up (Hood on or off)  My trip to Scobey(245 miles each way) saw

    Had a bad overheating problem with a 455 I recently built caused by a
_new_ water pump.  When I finally trouble shot it down to that, the impeller
fell off the shaft as I was taking it off.  In this case I could slip the
impeller on and off the shaft quite freely.  But I could see were one might
be just snug enough on the shaft that it would 
turn ok under lower stress and slipping more at a higher stress.

Glenn
'69 4-4-2

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 07:04:03 -0300
Subject: The Ghost of Chris Witt Returns

I mentioned Phil DeSimone's 4A 403 block to Chris Witt. If it does have 
solid webs, I'm sure he'll figure it out and let us know...

Meanwhile, he has the following engines for sale. If anyone wants a stout 
motor, drop him a line...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada


- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 20:12:33 -0300
From: Chris Brown Witt <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
To: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca>

Uh, you could find a buyer for a 76 Toro 455? How about a '69 Police car motor,
C heads, rebuilt, both run great. $250 & $550 respectively.

In Lansing, MI.

The steel crank engine guy has indicated he might sell; he paid only $350 or so
for whole engine. I need $.

- --
Chris  B. Witt
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

From: Katana72@aol.com
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 08:57:57 -0300
Subject: 67 Toro Deluxe  for sale 

I have a friend in Va. Beachthat has a 67 Olds Toro deluxe with all the
goodies and some extra parts for sale. He didn't give me a price to quote,
but if interested,call:

Jim Chermak
757.474.0869

BTW the RamRod 350 was built in 68 and changed to the w-31 in 69.
70,71 were also w-31's.

------------------------------

From: Frank Boerger <103454.317@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 09:15:04 -0300
Subject: FW: Heatin' Up

          
          >The other idea is that there is a flow restriction somewhere. You 
          >might try removing the thermostat completely and seeing if there 
          >is any significant change for the better. If so, it would tend to 
          >support the flow restriction idea, and if it isn t caused by the 
          >thermostat, it would at least narrow things down.
          
	Just put a B-I-G piece-o-cardboard in front of the radiator to reduce
the airflow, this will allow the air that is left to absorb more heat,
thereby reducing the temperature, or maybe try some Water-Wetter, 
	or maybe pinch the lower hose shut to reduce the flow.........I'm 
sorry,
I just couldn't resist...

Frank Boerger
'68 Cutlass S Convertible/'68 Coupe for parts...

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 09:19:21 -0300
Subject: ASCII Graphics (Was Re: Decoding VIN's)

> Nice looking car!!! See what I started!!
> 
>           ________
>          /________\
> Brad    (0-0||||0-0)  CS Convt
>  
Brad:

I take it you have a '68 CS ragtop?  Nice charicature.
If I may plagarize it a bit, I could make it look like...

            ________
           /________\
          {0-0}=={0-0}  '67 CS Convt

...then again, maybe not.  I guess I'll just stick to attempts
at witty reparte (emphasis on attempt) :)



Tim Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: Barbrom@aol.com
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 09:27:00 -0300
Subject: Aurora 

When will there be a 2 door coupe Aurora?

------------------------------

From: "Timothy A. Churchill" <tac3550@egbsun1.draper.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 09:25:37 -0300
Subject: Re: a color for Tiny

> << Suggestions received so far on a color for Tiny 
>  (Tiny is a '69 Olds 98 Convertible with a black interior and top) >>

In keeping with observations from some that larger cars  perhaps aren't
as suited for primary colors (like red, f'r instance), and also in keeping
with this auto's, err, mass :) :


Battleship Grey? :)



Tim (Whose New Fleetwood is a Compact Compared to the Brougham) Churchill
- -------------
'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 19:09:18 -0300
Subject: Re: Heatin' Up

I think that you should check the ignition timing. It may sound like your way 
too advanced and 
that's causing you over heating problem.  It's a start...
- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: mefco@sprynet.com
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 10:03:08 -0300
Subject: Re: a color for Tiny

Bring Tiny to the North Texas Olds club meeting, and we'll make a contest out 
of 
choosing the proper color.

Art Fuller

------------------------------

From: John Harris <John.Harris@rttc.redstone.army.mil>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 10:48:44 -0300
Subject: 70 SX for sale

Folks

I saw this ad:
"1970 Olds Cutlass Supreme SX, has detailed engine compartment with
original rebuilt 455 4bbl, auto, ps, pb, ac, buckets, console, rebuilt
front end, appraised at $5200, sell for $3500"

I will go look at this at lunch.  What do you think of this car and
price?  What should I look for?

JMH
69 442

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 09:56:46 -0300
Subject: Re: 68 442...should I buy it? 

>I've been offered a 68 442 for $500. it has no engine, good trans, a 2.56 rear
>out of a 70 cutlass, has primered replacement fender, door, and hood on left 
>front, interior decent, but seats could stand to be recovered. 
>
>since the original motor is long gone, is this car worth fixing up? I was 
>planning on making a driver out of her.

Okay, well, I would, simply for the challenge; i.e. I would get a kick out
of just working on it until it's running again, and might not be too careful
about budget or whether it made a lot of sense financially. If you are more
concerned than me about that, you might want to wonder why someone took the
engine out and didn't replace it. If the engine was bad, wouldn't they put
another one in? If the engine was good, they wouldn't pull it unless it was
better than the car. IOW, I'd wonder about what else would need fixing once
another engine was dropped in: transmission, maybe?

But if you can spare the $500 and the garage space, hey, you could get
your $500 back later if it doesn't pan out...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Todd Hall <thall@en.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 11:14:14 -0300
Subject: RE: Another Olds Movie Car Sighting -Reply 

At 01:26 AM 9/6/96 -0300, you wrote:
>>The 71 has grills that are multiple vertical strips that have one
>>horizontal strip in the middle, while the 72 is the checkerboard. 
>
>So which cutlass models of the 72 model year have the checkboard and which 
>have the horizontal strips?
>

My '72 442 has checkerboard. Any '72 Cutlass I have seen also has 
checkerboard. 
J. Todd Hall                         
Cleveland, OH       
1972 4-4-2        

"If you ever drop your keys into a river of molten lava, let'em go, 
 because, man, they're gone." 
                                    

------------------------------

From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 12:21:15 -0300
Subject: Re: Block Casting #557265 4A 

Everyone has to have their legends, that makes 'em legendary, no?

Some sources have put this number at 1 of 2500.  Now Chris has found that a 
4A block doesn't necessarily mean solid webs, but is the only block that 
ever had them of the 403's.

Could you check the webs to see if they are solid?  Is there any chance you 
might be able to contact the car's previous owner so ask what the 403 came 
out of and if the vehicle had any tow or heavy duty option packages?

David Brown          OCA #27978         (312) 702-9157
    Check out: www.442.com      www.oldsmobile.com
               FAQ version 2.0 due soon!
- --------------

>Sorry to burst your bubble, guys, but I don't think anyone has _ever_ seen a
>solid web Olds 403.  It's been kind of an Olds legend.  They may exist, and
>4A blocks are the ones to check.  If yours has solid main webs, I'd like to
>see it.
>
>Remember, no 4B blocks have solid webs, only some (very few) 4A blocks.  In
>fact, if you have a solid web 4A block, I'd say it's one in a million (well,
>that entirely made up statistic _may_ be slightly exaggerated).  It would be
>_VERY_ rare, anyway.
>
>Where's Chris Witt when we need him?

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 10:04:22 -0300
Subject: RE: Heatin' Up 

>Maybe, if 
>          there is the same bimetallic system on the Olds, your problem is 
>          the reverse and the voltage regulator is giving too high a 
>          voltage at high engine speeds.  No doubt Andrew Green can readily 
>          demolish this idea.

*BOOOOMMM*  :-)

Okay, well, the only thing I can say for sure is that... I doubt this.
I'm not sure I totally followed the description but I don't think the
temperature gauge setup on the Olds resembles the Citroen design very
closely (thank God). The sending unit is a variable resistance design,
all right, but for whatever reason the readings are pretty impervious
to voltage fluctuations, and I didn't read anything in the original
posting about gauges fluctuating when the engine was revved. If anyone
is suspicious about whether the gauge is accurate, it never hurts to
swap in a mechanical gauge temporarily.

Different thought: Has anyone checked the coolant mixture? Maybe it's
got way too high a percentage of antifreeze in it.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 10:10:31 -0300
Subject: Re: Used SS wheels 

>Uhh, what's the difference between a wheel cover and a hubcap?  I never knew
>there was a distinction.  Just called everything a hubcap.

A hubcap is the little dog-dish-style thingy which covers only the lugnuts
in the hub (cf. any police car, or car owned by Bryce Smith :-) and usually
clips on over about three raised points around the hub area. A wheel cover
attaches around the rim, to cover the entire wheel.

(More useless trivia: I was told once that one company, forget who but I
don't think it was GM, officially refers to trim rings as "beauty rings.")

>Are they available as a repro?  That'd be cool. Well, if you needed them...

Me, no, but with the Hollander number it makes it a lot easier to call
around by phone to locate them. There's a big outfit near me on the north
side of Chicago that I could call if someone was still looking for this one.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 10:12:30 -0300
Subject: RE: Another Olds Movie Car Sighting -Reply 

>So which cutlass models of the 72 model year have the checkboard and which 
>have the horizontal strips?

If you can find a Chilton book for those years at the local library, they
usually have a "Model Recognition" page near the front of the Olds section
with line drawings of the noses of the cars for each model and year. They
pay special attention to the grille detailing since that's often the only
way to tell the cars apart at a glance.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 12:17:46 -0300
Subject: RE: Another Olds Movie Car Sighting -Reply 

>My '72 442 has checkerboard. Any '72 Cutlass I have seen also has 
checkerboard. 

My wagon has horizontal strips, so is that someting unique to the wagon?  

Art Fuller, what is your grill like?

Roger Borlase

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 12:37:51 -0300
Subject: No 1971 W-31 (was re: 67 Toro Deluxe  for sale) 

At 07:57 AM 9/6/96 -0400, you wrote:
[snip]
>BTW the RamRod 350 was built in 68 and changed to the w-31 in 69.
>70,71 were also w-31's.

Don't believe the W-31 made the compression-cut in 1971. And did the '68 Ram
Rod 350 have the same wild-spec W-31 camshaft, or just the ram air induction?

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 12:37:52 -0300
Subject: Re: 68 & 69 455 

At 10:13 PM 9/5/96 -0400, you wrote:
>I am a delivery driver in North Dakota. My daily route is made up of
>small towns. The other day I was at a bone yard and they had five 68 to
>69 Tornado's. So I took a closer look with the small amount of time that
>I had. I found three that still had the 69 455 in them. So I asked the
>owner if he had any 68 Toro motors and he said he had one.

So _that's_ where they all are! No wonder I can't find any around here...  ;)

>   I was wondering if anyone would know what the 68 & 69 455 motor
>complete was worth. It sounds like I could get one for about $200. Is
>this a fair price??

If it runs, that is an excellent price. Heck, that be a decent price for a
workable set of heads from one of these! (fwiw, the 6-qt. oil pan alone is
worth about $80)

You do know that you can bolt one of these 455's into _your_ '77 Toro, don't
you...? Easy way to get 400hp (and cheaper than getting that from your 403).

>   I was also wondering, one of the 69 Toros is in very good shape with
>the motor still in it. It also looked as if all the parts were still on
>it. How much would something like this be worth as a whole car??

My friend was offered $7500 for his '69 in #2-3 shape; turned it down
because he just plain likes that car. OTOH, I got mine for $100...#4
condition, perhaps? This varies by region a _lot_!

>Thanks,
>Mark Bethke Jr.
>77 Toro (small block 403)

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 12:37:58 -0300
Subject: Re: 70 SX for sale 

At 09:48 AM 9/6/96 -0400, you wrote:
>I saw this ad:
>"1970 Olds Cutlass Supreme SX, has detailed engine compartment with
>original rebuilt 455 4bbl, auto, ps, pb, ac, buckets, console, rebuilt
>front end, appraised at $5200, sell for $3500"
>
>I will go look at this at lunch.  What do you think of this car and
>price?  What should I look for?
>
>JMH
>69 442

Aside from the usual rust points, look for rust around the windows; under
the vinyl roof in back, and under the chrome shield below the windshield
wipers (unscrew it to check underneath) up front. Also check the seams
between the wheelwells and the trunk floor; that rots out quite readily.
Even a car with a shiny paint job can have these problems (and they are
neither easy nor cheap to fix).

Should have the bumper with cutouts; check for pits in the chrome, and for
serious rust on the back of the bumper. Also check the grilles; replaceable,
but for about $100-$300.

Also check the condition of the tranny; neglect can kill even the TH400 (my
SX needed two quarts just to *reach* the dipstick; though I filled her
before ever driving it, the damage had already been done).

A plus if it has the handling package (Y74?) with the rear sway-bar, and
original SSI or SSII rims (body color SSIII's weren't available that year).
Extra plus if you have the W-32 motor (from the 442, rather than from the
98); no emblems to tell you this, though, and both had 365hp.

Double-plus if the air works; fixable if it doesn't (but can also run into
$$$ when all is said and done).

Nice car, worth the $3500 in very good shape, perhaps $2800 in just average
shape.

------------------------------

From: Robert Barry <rbarry@SEQUENT1.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 12:37:53 -0300
Subject: Re: 68 442...should I buy it? 

At 09:18 PM 9/5/96 -0400, you wrote:
>I've been offered a 68 442 for $500. it has no engine, good trans, a 2.56 rear
>out of a 70 cutlass, has primered replacement fender, door, and hood on left 
>front, interior decent, but seats could stand to be recovered. 
>
>since the original motor is long gone, is this car worth fixing up? I was 
>planning on making a driver out of her. 

That's the best kind of car to make a driver out of! Since you can't make it
original, just "restify" it with a Toronado 455 (Mark B. can get them for
around $200, apparently), TH400 (about $450, if you can get a core), new
seat covers (what, maybe $250?) and a paint job (maybe $500 if you do the
prep). For about $2000, you can have a ride we'd all envy.

>Dan Dale daleds@okra.millsaps.edu http://www.millsaps.edu/~daleds/index.html 
>cars: 1972 Cotner-Bevington Oldsmobile 98 Endloader, 1966 Pontiac GTO, 1973  
>Imperial LeBaron, 1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-X, 1955 Cadillac Seville, 1969  
>Cadillac DeVille Convertibles (2), 1976 Cadillac Series 75 Fleetwood Brougham
>1961 Imperial Custom, 1973 Buick Riviera                                     

Then again, Dan, where are you going to *fit* that thing? ;)

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 21:47:42 -0300
Subject: Re: Another Olds Movie Car Sighting -Reply

Todd Hall wrote:
> 
> At 01:26 AM 9/6/96 -0300, you wrote:
> >>The 71 has grills that are multiple vertical strips that have one
> >>horizontal strip in the middle, while the 72 is the checkerboard.
> >
> >So which cutlass models of the 72 model year have the checkboard and which
> >have the horizontal strips?
> >

O.K...In '72 the Cutlass/S had the horizontal grilles, the 442 models had the 
checkered 
mesh grilles, and the H/O pace cars had the larger checker grilles.

In '71 the Cutlass/S had the vertical grilles and the 442 models had the small 
checker 
meshing, the H/O & Convertibles had the larger checker grilles with paint and 
emblems 
separating them.
- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: "Tom Lentz" <tlentz@teknon.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 05:33:02 -0300
Subject: Re: Aurora 

     While waiting for a table at a restaurant last weekend I wandered over 
     to the Olds dealers lot next door.  Got assulted by the salesman so I 
     asked a few questions and got a few answers:
     
     1.  He hasn't heard any plans for a 2-door Aurora, but he gets asked 
     by lots of people so he keeps relaying the request to GM.  Maybe 
     they'll catch a clue someday.
     
     2.  This was the last year for _any_ rear wheel drive Oldsmobiles.  
     There was _one_ 98 left on the lot, and once that's sold there ain't 
     no mo.  The 97 models are all FWD.
     
     3.  Also no plans to put the Aurora V8 in any other Oldsmobiles.
     
     Tom L.


______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: Aurora
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET
Date:    9/6/96 5:33 AM


When will there be a 2 door coupe Aurora?
     

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 13:08:54 -0300
Subject: 68 & 69 455 -Reply 

>>> Mark Bethke Jr. <mbethke@btigate.com> 09/05/96 08:13pm >>>
>   I was wondering if anyone would know what the 68 & 69 455 motor
>complete was worth. It sounds like I could get one for about $200. Is
>this a fair price??

Uh... yeah.  The way I understand it, the 69 Toro 455 was the best 455
made (except maybe the 442/W machine motors), because of bigger
valves, etc.  I paid $500 for a '69 455 out of a  98, but it was running and
only had 38,000 original miles.  So $200 is an excellent price.  You could
easily get your $200 back from the heads and carb, if you decided not to
rebuild it.  If you're lucky, one of them will only need a complete overhaul,
rather than a complete rebuild.  You might want to bring a *big*
breaker-bar and socket (what size?) and make sure you can turn them
over.  Look for the cleanest one.  You can't go wrong for $200.

>   I was also wondering, one of the 69 Toros is in very good shape with
>the motor still in it. It also looked as if all the parts were still on it. 
How
>much would something like this be worth as a whole car??

Well, there's a lot of factors to consider when looking at a Toro.  One of
the True-blue Toroheads will surely fill you in...  But I can tell you that a
Toro that has been sitting for too long is going to require quite an
investment to get it going again.  If you can afford to put quite a lot into 
it,
try to get it for as little as possible.  Like maybe $600 - $800.

- -Blaine
'72 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 13:23:56 -0300
Subject: 68 442...should I buy it? -Reply 

>>> Daniel Dale <daleds@okra.millsaps.edu> 09/05/96 07:18pm >>>
>I've been offered a 68 442 for $500. it has no engine, good trans, a 2.56
>rear out of a 70 cutlass, has primered replacement fender, door, and
>hood on left  front, interior decent, but seats could stand to be
>recovered. 

Sounds like a good deal to me...  As Andrew Green said, you could
easily get your money back later.  The way I look at it is, if all else fails,
and you could make a profit by parting it out, it's a worthy investment.

>since the original motor is long gone, is this car worth fixing up? I was 
>planning on making a driver out of her. 

Depends on what else is wrong... If the rest of the drivetrain &
suspension is in great shape, then yes.  Especially if you just want to
make a driver out of it.  But I wonder how you could tell if the
transmission is good without having a motor to try it with...  Anyway, if I
could find a 442 for $500, I'd buy it regardless of the shape it was in. 
But that's just me... =)

>is there any vin decoding info. in the faq that would be applicable?

I think so...

- -Blaine                            

------------------------------

From: Daniel Dale <daleds@okra.millsaps.edu>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 13:31:13 -0300
Subject: Re: 68 442...should I buy it? 

>>Dan Dale daleds@okra.millsaps.edu http://www.millsaps.edu/~daleds/index.html 
>>cars: 1972 Cotner-Bevington Oldsmobile 98 Endloader, 1966 Pontiac GTO, 1973  
>>Imperial LeBaron, 1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-X, 1955 Cadillac Seville, 1969  
>>Cadillac DeVille Convertibles (2), 1976 Cadillac Series 75 Fleetwood Brougham
>>1961 Imperial Custom, 1973 Buick Riviera                                     
>
>Then again, Dan, where are you going to *fit* that thing? ;)


that's what my mom wants to know  :)

Dan Dale
looking for a huge field  

------------------------------

From: Daniel Dale <daleds@okra.millsaps.edu>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 13:39:19 -0300
Subject: Re: 68 442...should I buy it? 

>Okay, well, I would, simply for the challenge; i.e. I would get a kick out
>of just working on it until it's running again, and might not be too careful
>about budget or whether it made a lot of sense financially. If you are more
>concerned than me about that, you might want to wonder why someone took the
>engine out and didn't replace it. 

the seller is a friend of mine. when he bought it it had a 455, turbo 400, and
a 4.11 rear end. he also has a 70 cutlass. since the original engine is long
gone he would rather fix up the cutlass (his first car).  the 455 is going in
his cutlass and he doesn't have another good engine to put back in it. the
trans is fine, but his cutlass already has a good one he just had built.


>If the engine was bad, wouldn't they put
>another one in? If the engine was good, they wouldn't pull it unless it was
>better than the car. IOW, I'd wonder about what else would need fixing once
>another engine was dropped in: transmission, maybe?

I drove the car the other day and it did fine...he hasn't pulled the 455 out
yet so I got a chance to see how it drove. I think I'll be able to talk him
down on the price a little bit. the only problem is where I'm going to find a
good 455 here in jackson mississippi.


Dan Dale daleds@okra.millsaps.edu http://www.millsaps.edu/~daleds/index.html 
cars: 1972 Cotner-Bevington Oldsmobile 98 Endloader, 1966 Pontiac GTO, 1973  
Imperial LeBaron, 1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-X, 1955 Cadillac Seville, 1969  
Cadillac DeVille Convertibles (2), 1976 Cadillac Series 75 Fleetwood Brougham
1961 Imperial Custom, 1973 Buick Riviera                                     

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 13:50:06 -0300
Subject: Re: Aurora 

>     3.  Also no plans to put the Aurora V8 in any other Oldsmobiles.

But the Aurora V8 is scheduled to power the next Shelby Cobra.  Rocket Power!

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 13:51:40 -0300
Subject: Aurora -Reply 

>>> <Barbrom@aol.com> 09/06/96 06:27am >>>
>When will there be a 2 door coupe Aurora?

Hmm... Have you checked out the Oldsmobile WWW site?  (don't
know the address.  Just search for Oldsmobile)  You might find your
answer there.  Or you can always send them e-mail and ask...
I saw one for the first time on my way to work this morning.  Great
looking car!   Wish I could afford one =(.

- -Blaine

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 12:47:56 -0300
Subject: Re: 68 442...should I buy it? 

>>>cars: 1972 Cotner-Bevington Oldsmobile 98 Endloader, 1966 Pontiac GTO, 
1973  
>>>Imperial LeBaron, 1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-X, 1955 Cadillac Seville, 
1969  
>>>Cadillac DeVille Convertibles (2), 1976 Cadillac Series 75 Fleetwood 
Brougham
>>>1961 Imperial Custom, 1973 Buick 
Riviera                                     
>>
>>Then again, Dan, where are you going to *fit* that thing? ;)
>
>that's what my mom wants to know  :)
>
>Dan Dale
>looking for a huge field
 ^^^^^^^^^^^
I'd have thought you'd already found one. What are you doing,
stacking them on end?  :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Blaine Sanders 5483 <BLAINES@strata3d.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 14:16:43 -0300
Subject: Spotted:  66-67 (?) wagon 

I was driving through this little farming town last night and spotted a
station wagon in an empty lot.  The thing that caught my eye was the
front end.  It had an unmistakeable early 60's Olds front end.  I couldn't
take a close look, cuz the lot was fenced with "No Trespassing" signs all
over.  When I looked again, I noticed that where the roof raises, there
was a big glass sunroof lookin' thing.  Does this sound familliar to
anyone?  I'm 99% sure it was Olds, because I could just make out the
rocket symbols in the hubcaps.  I plan on talking to someone next time I'm
over that direction.  It might be kinda fun to rebuild a wagon...  Any ideas
what this could be?  Like what motor, etc.  I'm 80% sure it's a '66 or '67.  
Thanks.

- -Blaine

------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 14:30:22 -0300
Subject: RE: Spotted:  66-67 (?) wagon 

>When I looked again, I noticed that where the roof raises, there
>was a big glass sunroof lookin' thing.  Does this sound familliar to
>anyone? 
>Any ideas what this could be?  Like what motor, etc.  

Vista - Cr(Br)uiser?  Probably a 330 engine if a '67.  3 Flavors, 250, 310 or 
320 hp so no 400.  350 or 400 if a '68.  250/310 hp on 350, 290/360.

All listed in form of 2bbl/4bbl carb.

Blaine, 

I guess there are some possiblities with the sunroof.  Heh, heh...

Roger Borlase
'72 Cutlass Wagon
http://www.microdata.com/rborlase

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 13:22:36 -0300
Subject: Re: Spotted:  66-67 (?) wagon 

>When I looked again, I noticed that where the roof raises, there
>was a big glass sunroof lookin' thing.  Does this sound familliar to
>anyone?  I'm 99% sure it was Olds, because I could just make out the
>rocket symbols in the hubcaps.

Well, it sounds like a VistaCruiser all right, although I think Buick
was making one as well back then.

>I'm 80% sure it's a '66 or '67.  

If you don't see side marker lights, it's pre-1968.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 17:42:08 -0300
Subject: Re: Aurora -Reply

Blaine Sanders 5483 wrote:
> 
> don't know the address.  Just search for Oldsmobile

http://www.oldsmobile.com/    !!!   :)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 17:48:03 -0300
Subject: Re: 68 & 69 455 -Reply

Blaine Sanders 5483 wrote:
> 
>
> Well, there's a lot of factors to consider when looking at a Toro.  One 
> of the True-blue Toroheads will surely fill you in...  But I can tell 
> you that a Toro that has been sitting for too long is going to require 
> quite an investment to get it going again.  

I would say more than any comparable car.  Sure it has a lot of 
doo-hickies but no differetn than a 98.  The trans-axle assembly is built 
like a tank and no reason to be concerned.  The only really Toro specific 
problems are the CV joints and boots (torn boots = dry joints; dry joints 
might = wear) and big time rust around the rear suspension attachment 
points and the trunk floor (from clogged drains).  

I'd buy it but then Andy Green says I don't know what I'm thinking about 
let alone talking about.   ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: Brad Baker <bradbaker@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 15:04:08 -0300
Subject: Re: ASCII Graphics (Was Re: Decoding VIN's)

At 12:19 09/06/1996 +0000, you wrote:
>
>> Nice looking car!!! See what I started!!
>> 
>>           ________
>>          /________\
>> Brad    (0-0||||0-0)  CS Convt
>>  
>Brad:
>
>I take it you have a '68 CS ragtop?  Nice charicature.
>If I may plagarize it a bit, I could make it look like...
>
>            ________
>           /________\
>          {0-0}=={0-0}  '67 CS Convt
>
>...then again, maybe not.  I guess I'll just stick to attempts
>at witty reparte (emphasis on attempt) :)
>
>
>
>Tim Churchill
>-------------
>'67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible, a.k.a. 'Big Red'
>'89 Cadillac Fleetwood, nickname yet to be determined
>'91 Mazda Protege, a.k.a. 'The Next Car to be Replaced'


Ok, when are you going to start???

       ________  
      /________\
Brad (0-0||||0-0)

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 13:58:19 -0300
Subject: Re: 68 & 69 455 -Reply 

>I would say more than any comparable car.

Probably you meant to say "_no_ more than any comparable car"...?

>I'd buy it but then Andy Green says I don't know what I'm thinking about 
>let alone talking about.   ;)

Yeah, I'd agree with that.  :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: brett@actel.com
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 18:58:42 -0300
Subject: Re[2]: Aurora 

     
     As to number 2 below, the 98 has been FWD since around '85.  The 
     Custom Cruiser is the only RWD they have had for a few years.  1996 is 
     the end of the production for these and it's other full size GM RWD 
     siblings.
     

Brett Chaveriat                brett@actel.com 
Arlington Hts, IL

'72 Cutlass Supreme convt  



______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Aurora
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at SMTPlink-Actel
Date:    9/6/96 9:11 AM


     While waiting for a table at a restaurant last weekend I wandered over 
     to the Olds dealers lot next door.  Got assulted by the salesman so I 
     asked a few questions and got a few answers:
     
     1.  He hasn't heard any plans for a 2-door Aurora, but he gets asked 
     by lots of people so he keeps relaying the request to GM.  Maybe 
     they'll catch a clue someday.
     
     2.  This was the last year for _any_ rear wheel drive Oldsmobiles.  
     There was _one_ 98 left on the lot, and once that's sold there ain't 
     no mo.  The 97 models are all FWD.
     
     3.  Also no plans to put the Aurora V8 in any other Oldsmobiles.
     
     Tom L.
     
     
______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: Aurora
Author:  oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca at INTERNET 
Date:    9/6/96 5:33 AM
     
     
When will there be a 2 door coupe Aurora?
     
     

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 19:18:18 -0300
Subject: Re: 68 & 69 455 -Reply

Andrew C. Green wrote:
> 
> Probably you meant to say "_no_ more than any comparable car"...?

Prolly did.

> > I'd buy it but then Andy Green says I don't know what I'm thinking 
> > about let alone talking about.   ;) 
> Yeah, I'd agree with that.  :-)

Gee, what would I do without you to keep me straight?

The 66 Toro and Whoever


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO           Edison3, Incorporated
     Tampa, Florida           Data Translation & Communication
     (813) 210-8649             http://www.cpeq.com/~edison3/

------------------------------

From: DELPROPO@EMUVAX.EMICH.EDU
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 16:36:48 -0300
Subject: CHROME NEEDED

	I am looking for the passanger rear chrome piece for a 70 Supreme. It
is the one that igoes around the running light and is one piece of the entire
trim that runs the length of the car. It is about 2 inches wide and about 2

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #291
********************************
 
