
oldsmobile-digest          Tuesday, 11 June 1996       Volume 01 : Number 200


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Roger M. Borlase" <BORLASE@gordonc.edu>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 08:30:44 -0300
Subject: RE: Looking for Parts 

>
>	I'm looking for various parts for a '72 Olds Cutlass hardtop.  My wishlist 
>includes:

...

Try Oldsmobile USA - 	info # (703) 335 - 1935
			fax order (703) 335 - 0904
			order  (800) 872 - 2013
			fax order   (703) 872 - 2014

They have most of the parts you want/need.  New or rebuilt and even 
reproduction.

JC Whitney has the bumpers.  Front is around $400.

Roger M. Borlase
'72 cutlass wagon
http://www.cjnetworks.com/olds/noframesreg/borlase.html

------------------------------

From: Lucas Frick <frick@macrochip.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 10:31:03 -0300
Subject: ignition switch installation

Hope everyone had a good weekend. =20

I did - I finally found the sport steering wheel I need for the 71 442.  =
For $75 I got the whole steering column.  Sanded it down and painted it =
until drips started showing - in exactly the same way the factory did.  =
Doesn't look all that hard to install but I do have 2 problems.  First =
is the ignition switch is not in the column.  How the heck do you put =
these things in?  Can I use the old one?  It looks like the only thing =
this key assy does is push a rod that goes to the actual electrical =
switch mounted farther down on the column.  Is this something to modify =
- - it looks very easy to hotwire the switch.  I'll bet the steering lock =
is connected to this as well. =20

Next q does the dealer sell that little brittle gasket that insulates =
the horn button from ground or do I have to cut one?

Other junkyard finds - 15" rally wheel and passenger side quarter panel =
turn signal assy. $20=20

Thanks
Luke

------------------------------

From: Miles Lott <milos@insync.net>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 10:36:50 -0300
Subject: Dash Parts

I need a dash piece that holds the radio, etc. on a '72 Cutlass

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 11:51:26 -0300
Subject: Framingham factory 

          Wow.  I'm surprised at all the Massachusetts 
          natives/residents on the group here.  I grew up in 
          Shrewsbury and also got a tour of the Framingham plant in 
          the early 70s with the Boy Scouts.
          
          An interesting look at the Framingham plant is provided in 
          the book THE MACHINE THAT CHANGED THE WORLD, by James P. 
          Womack, Daniel T. Jones, and Danies Roos.  this book 
          primarily discusses the theory of "lean production" and how 
          the Japanese and Ford have embraced it, with significant 
          productivity and quality improvements.  The Framingham plant 
          is singled out as THE worst of the bad old mass production 
          assembly plants for quality and productivity.  Its closure 
          in 1989 reflected the reality that it was cheaper to close 
          it and start over than to fix it.
          
          BTW, I highly recommend the book to anyone interested in the 
          automotive design/production/marketing process.
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 20:08:44 -0300
Subject: Another Weekend Story

Well, what has your weekend been like? I hope better than mine. A part from the lousy weather we're 
having here in Toronto, everything was not bad, until Sunday night. I had some time on my hands so 
naturally I look around to find somethng to do. One look at the olds and I was hooked. 

I'd been meaning to put in an electric cooling fan for the longest time and Sunday noght was going to be 
it. Spent over 2 hours locating wires and mounting brackets. When finnally I got the thing all hooked up 
I tested the unit. It worked very well. Kept the engine to around 200`. It has an adjustable electonic 
temp sensor. Came on by itself and shut off by itself. Very nice, don't you think? I mounted it in front 
of the radiator facing the engine. This way when I install the fan shroud  you won't be able to see the 
electric fan. Neat...Well after warming the car up to temp I decided to test it a little further by 
reving the engine, well I forgot to replace the fan shroud on my last, of many trips to the engine bay 
and reving the engine the fan pulls in the radiator into its path. You can imagine the rest of the horror 
on you own, I can't write about it any longer. A perfectly good 3-core rad torn to pieces!! HAVE A NICE 
DAY!!!@@@!!

- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 12:13:21 -0300
Subject: Car Names 

          
          Re: the thread about "Tempest" being a full size vs. A body 
          car name.  Keep in mind that automakers often recycled model 
          names in various years, especially as models were downsized 
          in the 70s.  Remember the F-85, which went from an A body to 
          the Nova body as a stripped-down version of the Omega.
          
          And speaking of the Nova series, besides meaning "won't go", 
          the other bit of trivia is that all models in that range 
          (Nova, Omega, Ventura, Apollo) start with the letters in the 
          word "Nova".
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 10:33:07 -0300
Subject: Re: '84 Cutlass V-6 

>The 2200 rpm figure is probably the fast idle rpm setting for the choke.  

It is indeed.

>Most engines should be able to make do with something a bit lower.

You got that right. It was painful to listen to -- what with a cold engine
and all. I assume it was part of the attempt to get cold-start emissions
as low as possible to meet gummint standards.

>The 
>fast idle setting has no effect on the warm idle speed (choke off).

I wondered about that. This is all academic now because the car is gone
anyway, but I know I had to set the screw on the high step of the cam
when adjusting for 2200 rpm, which kind of implies that it would have
had _some_ effect on warm idle too... wouldn't it? I don't remember
finding any kind of mechanism on the '82 which would have given the
computer direct control of the warm idle speed, although it could have
changed the action of the mixture control solenoid if it wanted to.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 10:37:04 -0300
Subject: Re: Looking for Parts 

>	I'm looking for various parts for a '72 Olds Cutlass hardtop. 
>1.  Rear power windows units, motor, arm, ect...

Just curious: Did they actually use _different_ power window motors
in the rear doors as compared to the front? And are there different
units for right vs. left sides?

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 10:43:51 -0300
Subject: Re: Framingham factory 

>          The Framingham plant 
>          is singled out as THE worst of the bad old mass production 
>          assembly plants for quality and productivity.

This reminds me of one trivia item I learned on our tour when I picked
up a souvenir matchbook in the Executive Dining Room. It had the right
address on it but had been printed as "GMAC" (General Motors Acceptance
Corporation, the financing arm of the company) instead of "GMAD" (General
Motors Assembly Division, the factory's parent). It seems that they ordered
eight bazillion matchbooks to be printed "GMAD" all right, but the supplier,
who clearly had been watching too many TV ads from GMAC about how to finance
your new car, decided that they'd meant to say "GMAC" instead and printed
the whole lot that way. The factory decided the hell with it and distributed
them anyway.  :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 07:09:33 -0300
Subject: Re: Looking for Parts

Andrew C. Green wrote:
> 
> >       I'm looking for various parts for a '72 Olds Cutlass hardtop.
> >1.  Rear power windows units, motor, arm, ect...
> 
> Just curious: Did they actually use _different_ power window motors
> in the rear doors as compared to the front? And are there different
> units for right vs. left sides?
> 
> Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
> Datalogics, Inc.
> 441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
> Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

Andrew:

Most cars had right & left motors, but if someone has a bad left and a 
good right, just exchange the gear cases to a good motor.  The best 
motors to pick from a jund car are the rear or right side ones.  They 
get the least use.

The window regulators are different for power windows compared to manual 
because of the mounting for the motors.  They are different front & 
rear because of the shape of the door/body and the travel of the window 
in the channel.  Power windows easily mount into non-power bodies 
because all of the holes are there to mount up - notice all of the 
extras when you have your door panels off.  The wires go through the 
doors into the fromt posts inside a rubber conduit.  These holes have to 
be drilled, but notice the dimples on your door posts and doors for 
starting the holes. Most of time the 4-door regulators won't fit the 
2-door ones.  The motors & gears are the same for long years of 
production.

Bill culp

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 13:14:57 -0300
Subject: Tales from the Left Coast 

          I've been out of the office for about a week and a half, on 
          business to LA, Phoenix, and Vandenberg AFB.  The good news 
          is that, FINALLY, I've managed to coordinate a business trip 
          with the Pomona swap meet!  More about that in a few...
          
          A brief recap of LA auto-related exploits...
          
          First, a trip to the Petersen Museum, as in Robert E. 
          Petersen, as in Petersen Publishing, as in Hot Rod, Chevy 
          Craft (er...Camaro Craft...er...CAR Craft), and Motor Trend. 
          An absolutely excellent museum.  Three floors of automotive 
          treats, dealing primarily with the history of the automobile 
          in So Cal.  Most of the cars are in detailed settings, such 
          as the hot rods around the drive in restaurant.  Highlights 
          include a Tucker, Craig Breelove's Spirit of America LSR 
          car, a big section on hot rodding and customs, 
          California-built Indy cars, "Hollywood" cars, including the 
          ZZ Top collection (Cadzilla, the matching Harleys, 
          Eliminator, and Kopperhead), and serial number 0005 Viper.  
          Admission was $7 and I spent over 3 hours there.
          
          Ok, that was Friday.  Saturday was spent on Catalina Island. 
          Minimal car activity but put quality time in the bank with 
          the new wife of 9 months in preparation for dragging her 
          around on Sunday at...
          
          Pomona Swap Meet.  When I lived in So Cal, I'd go to every 
          one (typically every 6 weeks).  Not a lot of Olds-related 
          stuff, but I'll recap a few:
          
          68 Cutlass convert for sale, $8500.  71 Cutlass 2dr (no 
          post) for $500.  Massive rust bubbles under the vinyl top of 
          this (obviously) non-California car.  Also saw a nice 66 442 
          convert in the preferred parking - not for sale.
          
          How about a 1971 Rogers jet boat with "455 OLDS MOBILE 390 
          H.P." (sic) for "$2500 (firm, no offers)"?  (Bryce....)  
          "Rebuilt Berkley Jet.  (909) 989-7074 ask for Greg."  This 
          boat appears to have been recently painted white and hastily 
          put back together (more or less) for sale.  The jet drive 
          looked fresh, but the 455 appeared to have been yanked from 
          a D88 and hastily bolted into the boat.  Nothing was hooked 
          up (driveshaft to the jet was not installed, for example).  
          Had a Torker and over-the-transom headers.
          
          Also saw several 4bbl manifolds for the BOP 215 and a 
          Jetfire intake/turbo/carb setup.  The seller on this one was 
          kind of an a**hole, dancing around the price (more than $50, 
          but less than $500).  Unit was "brand new, taken off the car 
          with only a few miles on it", but appeared to have been 
          treated to a rebuild with a can of silver spray paint.  He 
          also claimed to have the exhaust manifolds but not the air 
          cleaner.  All the plumbing was missing.  Call Ed (909) 
          245-1444.
          
          A four-spoke steering wheel (small diameter from Starfire, 
          not a 442 unit) was $35.  An out of production Edelbrock O4B 
          dual plane intake (my personal favorite for a mild street 
          motor) was $135, already glass beaded (fyi, I paid $50 for 
          my crusty version a few years ago).  A chrome plating shop 
          had a set of plated SS II wheels, but I didn't ask the 
          price.
          
          The So Cal chapter of the OCA had a booth.  Said hello to 
          old friends, including Butch Williams, Dominic Santucci, and 
          Woody Hyde.
          
          Picked up a brochure from Car-Tech, a distributor for Howell 
          Engine Developments.  Howell speciallizes in aftermarket EFI 
          applications.  They have developed a throttle body EFI kit 
          for the 455 Olds motor as used in the GMC motorhome (BTW, 
          that application uses a Toro drive setup).  The kit 
          includes:
          
                670 cfm throttle body to replace existing Q-Jet carb
                Full functioning closed loop operation with oxygen 
                sensor
                A complete GM-style and quality wiring harness from 
                engine to ECM
                Calibrations developed specifically for the Olds 405   
                (?!?!) and 455 engines as installed in GMC motorhomes
                All GM diagnostic features...
                The Howell GMC motorhome EFI package includes all      
                necessary components including correct-length fuel     
                lines, wiring harness, ECM, fuel pump, sensors,        
                fittings, and relays - all backed by a limited         
                warranty  (original air cleaner and distributor are    
                retained).
          
          Apparently this system uses the 2bbl throttle body found on 
          454 Chevy/GMC trucks, with the 87-92 truck ECM recalibrated 
          for the motorhome use.  Note that they also offer different 
          calibrations for modified engines and even offer a 4bbl 
          throttle body (I think it is the Holley unit) with the GM 
          ECM.  The only downside is the price...$1200.  Call Howell 
          at (810) 791-6400 or fax at (810) 791-0802.
          
          Finally, I picked up a copy of the magazine Invention and 
          Technolgy.  This is wholly sponsored by GM and is extremely 
          interesting.  The magazie is published quarterly and has 
          included articles about Bell Labs, Thomas Edison's poured 
          concrete houses, the Air Force's "flying saucer" plane, and 
          Robert Goddard, to name only a few.  Of Oldsmobile relavence 
          (you were wondering when I would get around to that...) is 
          that Goddard (inventor of the liquid propellant rocket), 
          when chased out of Massachusetts for his rocketry 
          experiments, moved to Roswell NM.  He rented a house from 
          Effie Olds (yes, that Olds family!).  I wonder if this is 
          the connection that lead to the Rocket V8 and the rocket 
          logo.
          
          Joe (Californina Dreamin') Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: "Jason P. Labay" <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 12:34:41 -0300
Subject: Re: Looking for Parts 

I am parting out a 72 Cutlass 'S'. I am not sure if any of those parts would
fit the Cutlass. It does not have power windows


>	I'm looking for various parts for a '72 Olds Cutlass hardtop.  My wishlist 
>includes:
>
>1.  Rear power windows units, motor, arm, ect...
>2.  Glove box
>3.  weatherstripping
>4.  New rear and front bumper
>5.  Floor Pans
>6.  Black kick panels
>7.  Black interior trip that runs along the roof next to windows, passenger
side.
>8.  Torgue converter cover for an automatic
>9.  other parts...


Jason Labay  Akron, Ohio					z28cfi@gwis.com
1988 Camaro IROC-Z/28 5.0 bowtie power			jlabay@phoenix.kent.edu
1975 Hurst/Olds W-25 5.7 rocket power

------------------------------

From: "Shawn M. Twomey" <stwom@ctp.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 12:37:40 -0300
Subject: T-tops part numbers 

At long last, here are the promised numbers for G-body t-tops seals.

Weatherstripping (on the car) Left side - 20211821      $95.50
                                Rt. side - 20211820     $95.50
Sealant strips (on the top)     left side - 20139617    $16.95
                                rt. side        same

I got these prices from the dealer, so if you can find someone who works for
GM, or know somebody at a body shop or something, you can get them for less.

Sorry about the delay

__________________________________________________________________________
Shawn M. Twomey     |  "No!  Try NOT!  Do, or do not.  There is no try."
stwom@ctp.com       |  -Yoda
__________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

From: Cary Yamamoto <yamamoto@unr.edu>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 12:46:54 -0300
Subject: 442 showcase

If anyone subscribes to Classic Auto Restorer, there is an interesting
section about the Olds 442 models.  The cover sports a red '71
convertible.  Very sharp indeed.



Cary Yamamoto                                 University of NV, Reno
Coordinator,                                  Prospective Students/110
Prospective Students                          Reno, NV  89557
                                              (702) 784-4865 
	                                      (702) 784-1852 fax	 

------------------------------

From: "Shawn M. Twomey" <stwom@ctp.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 12:47:41 -0300
Subject: My mail 

My POP server seems to be quite flaky, esp. with large mailers like the Olds
digests-it seems like I'm missing one or two every week.  The point is, if
someone asks me a question or says something that demands my attention and I
don't respond, there's a good chance I missed it.

__________________________________________________________________________
Shawn M. Twomey     |  "No!  Try NOT!  Do, or do not.  There is no try."
stwom@ctp.com       |  -Yoda
__________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 17:51:23 -0300
Subject: Re: Another Weekend Story

Fernando Proietto wrote:
> 
> Well, what has your weekend been like? I hope better than mine.
> A perfectly good 3-core rad torn to pieces!!

Doesn't seem to have been a great weekend for the Rocket-Heads.  Your 
radiator, Greg Kalkhoff fried the wiring harness in his Dubonette, and I 
discovered new and thrilling corrosion hidden in the deep recesses of my 
Toro.

Oh, well.  There's always next weekend...

With heavy heart,

The (rusting) 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Frank Boerger <103454.317@CompuServe.COM>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 15:04:23 -0300
Subject: '68 Convertible Rear Springs

Well, I've taken the plunge on my rust bucket '68 Cutlass convertible.  The body
is now off-frame, and the sandblasting of the frame has begun.  The rear springs
have been removed so that all nooks and crannies can be cleaned.  Question:  How
can I tell if I should replace the rear springs or not ?  I know I should
replace the rear upper isolator pads.  Is there a no-load length that would tell
me if they have sagged ? If I do replace the springs, where/who is the best
vendor ?  Everybody sells them, but my hunch is that only a few have the correct
ones.

Frank Boerger

'68 Cutlass convertible
'68 Cutlass holiday coupe (parts wagon)

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 14:09:50 -0300
Subject: Re: '68 Convertible Rear Springs 

>Question:  How
>can I tell if I should replace the rear springs or not ?

Reassemble the car, then check the ride height against the specs.  :-)
But seriously, the springs affect the ride height, so to begin with,
if it is (or was) riding low, those would be the parts to replace. 
Beyond that, I imagine they could be giving a poor ride or in other 
words weakening with age, even if the car isn't (yet) sagging at the 
back. I don't claim expertise on springs beyond having to throw money
at them every now and then.

Just to be totally indecisive here, on the one hand you might as well
replace them anyway since, good grief, you're already partway through
a frame-off restoration; on the other hand, you could always replace
them later after everything else has been reassembled. Do you need to
make this decision now? Sounds to me like you could postpone it until
the state of the car enables you to make direct measurements, and thus
you won't risk spending money on parts you don't need.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Kevin Wong <yu135008@yorku.ca>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 15:20:58 -0300
Subject: Re: '84 Cutlass V-6

> >The 
> >fast idle setting has no effect on the warm idle speed (choke off).
> 
> I wondered about that. This is all academic now because the car is gone
> anyway, but I know I had to set the screw on the high step of the cam
> when adjusting for 2200 rpm, which kind of implies that it would have
> had _some_ effect on warm idle too... wouldn't it? I don't remember
> finding any kind of mechanism on the '82 which would have given the
> computer direct control of the warm idle speed, although it could have
> changed the action of the mixture control solenoid if it wanted to.

The cam has a few steps on it, and since this cam is connected to the 
choke, it moves as the choke valve opens.  This movement results in lower
engine speeds as the engine warms up; the fast idle screw drops 
sequentially down each step until the choke is completely off.  At this 
point, the fast idle screw doesn't contact the cam, so it cannot hold the 
throttle valve open more than what the idle screw on the opposite side of 
the carburetor normally does.

You're right about the computer not being able to control the idle speed 
in this type of system.  The idle speed is determined by the idle screw 
setting.  The computer cycles the mixture control solenoid to control the 
air/fuel mixture when the engine is warm, and the throttle position 
is not very high.  Compared to an EFI system, the computer has a 
relatively minor role in this case.  During cold operation or heavy 
throttle conditions the metering is all mechanical! 
 
Kevin Wong

------------------------------

From: Joanne Beausoleil <jbeausol@ftp.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 16:47:12 -0300
Subject: Upper Control Arm Bushings

Should these be replaced if they are obnoxiously noisy but otherwise OK? =
I would think that the squeaking is a sign of the rubber deteriorating =
and they should be replaced... Any opinions? Thanks, Joanne

------------------------------

From: Fernando Proietto <proietto@dow.on.doe.ca>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 02:27:19 -0300
Subject: Re: Another Weekend Story

Mike Frederick wrote:
> 
> Fernando Proietto wrote:
> >
> > Well, what has your weekend been like? I hope better than mine.
> > A perfectly good 3-core rad torn to pieces!!
> 
> Doesn't seem to have been a great weekend for the Rocket-Heads.  Your
> radiator, Greg Kalkhoff fried the wiring harness in his Dubonette, and I
> discovered new and thrilling corrosion hidden in the deep recesses of my
> Toro.
> 
> Oh, well.  There's always next weekend...
> 
> With heavy heart,
> 
> The (rusting) 66 Toro and Mike

Yeah, but at this rate we may not have any car left to store for the winter.
- -- 
Regards
Fernando Proietto

------------------------------

From: JPADA@hqgate.orbital.com
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 18:33:44 -0300
Subject: Re: Upper Control Arm Bushings 

Should these be replaced if they are obnoxiously noisy but otherwise OK? I 
would think that the squeaking is a sign of the rubber deteriorating and 
they should be replaced... Any opinions? Thanks, Joanne

          If they are squeaking, chances are good that they are not 
          OK.  Just to save the money, first check the torque on the 
          nuts on the ends of the upper control arm shaft.  If loose, 
          this could lead to the squeak, however it is much more 
          likely that the bushings are shot.  Of course, I'm assuming 
          that the car doesn't have polyurethane or aluminum bushings, 
          which will always squeak...
          
          In the mightaswell catagory, while you have the front end 
          apart, put in upper and lower bushings and ball joints.  And 
          if the car doesn't have disc brakes, now would be a good 
          time to convert.
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 16:30:15 -0300
Subject: Re: Another Weekend Story 

> Doesn't seem to have been a great weekend for the Rocket-Heads.  Your
> radiator, Greg Kalkhoff fried the wiring harness in his Dubonette
                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Well, if we're all comparing horror stories... I seem to have missed
that one. What happened? (and what's a Dubonette?)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 17:43:50 -0300
Subject: Re: Another Weekend Story

On Mon, 10 Jun 1996, Andrew C. Green wrote:
> > Doesn't seem to have been a great weekend for the Rocket-Heads.  Your
> > radiator, Greg Kalkhoff fried the wiring harness in his Dubonette
>                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Well, if we're all comparing horror stories... I seem to have missed
> that one. What happened? (and what's a Dubonette?)

I had a girlfriend once who always liked to sip Dubonnet after dinner 
when we went out... suppose if you had enough of it, you could get fried.

:)

Somehow I suspect this is not it, however.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 17:41:41 -0300
Subject: Re: ignition switch installation 

In a message dated 96-06-10 09:43:17 EDT, you write:

> did - I finally found the sport steering wheel I need for the 71 442.  For
>$75 I got the whole steering column.  Sanded it down and painted it until
>drips started showing - in exactly the same way the factory did.

Lucas, I hope you didn't do that on purpose.  If I were judging your car and
noticed runs it would not add to your score, believe.  Because _some_ cars
came down the assembly line with runs does _not_ make it correct.

Bob Handren OCA# 7728
etc, etc

------------------------------

From: Lucas Frick <frick@macrochip.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 17:55:00 -0300
Subject: RE: ignition switch installation

Just A joke along the lines of having correct air in the tires and correct electrons in the battery.

Earlier today I was told you have to take the steering wheel off to get to the ignition switch.  Surely someone here knows.

Luke 

Lucas, I hope you didn't do that on purpose.  If I were judging your car and
noticed runs it would not add to your score, believe.  Because _some_ cars
came down the assembly line with runs does _not_ make it correct.
 

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 12:57:38 -0300
Subject: Re: Upper Control Arm Bushings

Joanne Beausoleil wrote:
> 
> Should these be replaced if they are obnoxiously noisy but otherwise OK? I would think that the squeaking is a sign of the rubber 
deteriorating and they should

Joanne:

The squeeking means that you have metal to metal contact on one or more 
of those bushings.  Even if you cannot see it the deterioration is 
there.  I'm assumning that you mean the squeeking noise whenever the 
suspension moves as in going over a speed breaker, or out of the dip in 
the driveway into the street.

Wear here can cause other suspension wear if you let this go very long 
as well as cause deterioration in your ride & handling.

Bill Culp

Bill Culp

------------------------------

From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 18:01:25 -0300
Subject: Canadian Cars & Parts

>From "Old Autos", the Canadian old-car newspaper. Remember Canadian $ are 
at about 70%-75% of US dollars so some of these may be bargains though 
given som of the prices I'm not so sure. Lots of stuff this time, here are 
the highlights:

Cars:

'31 Olds 4-door, $8100. 905-563-7382 (Ont.)
'53 Olds convert, '52 4-door, both parts cars, $700/pair. 613-267-1111 (Ont.)
'59 88 2-door, $3,000. 905-562-5614 (Ont.)
'61 98 convert, $1200. 905-459-6432 (Ont.)
'62 Starfire, $4500 obo. 613-646-2895 (Ont.)
'64 2-door h/t (picture shows full-size) w/455, $3800. 519-925-0798 (Ont.)
'64 Starfire convert, $19,900. 705-487-5032 (Ont.)
'67 98 2 dr. h/t, $2900 obo. 613-756-3015 (Ont.)
'68 98 convert, $12,500. 705-322-2119 (Ont.)
'68 Delta 4-dr. h/t, 1 owner, 76K Mi. No price. 519-327-8424 (Ont.)
'69 Cutlass S convert, $9500. 519-843-2986 (Ont.)
'70 Cutlass Supreme, restored, detailed, immaculate, $8000. 519-439-5062 
(Ont.)
'72 Cutlass convert, $12,500. 416-777-9515 (Ont.)
'77 Cutlass Brougham 2-dr h/t, $3000. 519-864-4064 (Ont.)
'87 4-4-2, 19K km., $20,000 obo. 905-732-4163 (Ont.)

Parts:
'65 Starfire, all complete for parts. $600. 819-456-3481.

Parts Wanted:
'37 F37 grill. 519-576-6432
'64 Dynamic 88, need passenger side front fender and both rear quarters, 
also 425 drivers side exhaust manifold for dual exhaust. 519-759-4978
'71 Cutlass Supreme 2-dr, need body side moldings, wheel centers, Am/Fm 
radio, rear bumper. 613-546-5166  

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@frame.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 17:07:21 -0300
Subject: RE: ignition switch installation 

>Earlier today I was told you have to take the steering wheel off to get to
the ignition switch.  Surely someone here knows.

This is from memory of reading assorted manuals (believe it or not, even
Chilton was useful on this one) and I have not done this myself, so take
it as a general guide: Yes, you pull the steering wheel with a steering
wheel puller (duh :-) -- Sears makes a nice one that pulls crankshaft
balancers as well -- after which you will eventually get down to a lock
plate, which is the notched plate into which the spring-loaded tooth pops
in order to lock the steering column when you remove the key. To remove
this, you need a special tool called a Lock Plate Compressor, which
basically presses the lock plate down and pulls the steering shaft up
in order to expose a locking circlip around the steering shaft. Pry this
off and you can remove the lock plate, gaining access to the turn signal
switch and ignition cylinder below it.

There may be some circumstances or brands of car where you don't need to
pull the wheel -- Ford comes to mind -- but any service manual should
have the instructions for you.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: JK McCall <jkmccall@clic.net>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 18:14:59 -0300
Subject: Front Calipers:

Hello everyone, quiet weekend on the list.  Most must have been out with 
their toys.

Anyways, Frozen piston, front left disc.  Drags after brake is released. 
 Looking for suggestions as to rebuild the caliper or just purchase one 
rebuilt.  Read thru the Haynes manual and they talk about cleaning 
everything with brake cleaner or denatured alcohol and using compressed 
air to remove the piston.  Don't have either.

Help


JK McCall

------------------------------

From: lawrencr@kostabi.gdls.com (Robert Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 18:23:12 -0300
Subject: Re: Another Weekend Story

> > > Doesn't seem to have been a great weekend for the Rocket-Heads.  Your
> > > radiator, Greg Kalkhoff fried the wiring harness in his Dubonette
> >                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > Well, if we're all comparing horror stories... I seem to have missed
> > that one. What happened? (and what's a Dubonette?)
> 
> I had a girlfriend once who always liked to sip Dubonnet after dinner 
> when we went out... suppose if you had enough of it, you could get fried.
> 
> :)
> 
> Somehow I suspect this is not it, however.

Or, you have very interesting taste in women...

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lawrence   | 1970 Oldsmobile 98 Convertible               .^.
lawrencr@gdls.com |  _________,~--,___________\____________     /9|8\
(810) 825-5450    |  |                |~    |        ___   |    \}|{/
Sterling Hts., MI |  =------(-o-)-------------------( o )--=      v

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 23:36:55 -0300
Subject: Weekend Bummer Explained

Andrew C. Green wrote:
> 
> > ... Greg Kalkhoff fried the wiring harness in his Dubonette

> What happened? (and what's a Dubonette?)

Readers Digest Condensed Version:  
While Greg was re-installing the Wonderbar, a short somewhere apparently 
caused the wiring harness to catch fire.  Car now in the burn unit.
                                           (It's one of the Toros)
 
I'm sure Greg will give you the long version once he recovers.  
Physically: OK -- Mentally: Big Time Bummed Out.

Cards and Flower GIFs can be sent to Toronado66@aol.com


The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: ne1469@ix.netcom.com (Karl Davlin )
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 21:34:15 -0300
Subject: Re: Looking for Parts

Andrew,
    I don't know if the rear is different from the front or not.  As 
for left and right sides, I don't remember.  It has been over 7 years 
since I converted the front to power.  The car has been in storage for 
5 years.

                                    Karl

You wrote: 
>
>>	I'm looking for various parts for a '72 Olds Cutlass hardtop. 
>>1.  Rear power windows units, motor, arm, ect...
>
>Just curious: Did they actually use _different_ power window motors
>in the rear doors as compared to the front? And are there different
>units for right vs. left sides?
>
>Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
>Datalogics, Inc.
>441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
>Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473
>
>
>

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 21:37:52 -0300
Subject: Re: Looking for Parts 

In a message dated 96-06-10 00:45:08 EDT, you write:

>1.  Rear power windows units, motor, arm, ect...

Does anyone know if these regulators are the same as a convertible, or are
they different?

>8.  Torgue converter cover for an automatic

I wouldn't bother, mine's been broken since it came off the truck.  Don't
know why the dealer never fixed it.

Paul

------------------------------

From: Doug McClanahan <mcclan@wsdot.wa.gov>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 21:39:15 -0300
Subject: fyi

I am providing an old example of a NHTSA report.  My question to you all is:  Do you 
want to know about current NHTSA reports (dealing with Oldsmobiles of course) and should 
I bother getting them monthly for the group?  In the interest of keeping the list 
cruzin' along, I will only look at the first 10 responses.  If you see 10 responses to 
this post, don't bother sending another reply to the list (but if you must give 
your comments after the first 10, send it to Doug McClanahan at mcclan@wsdot.wa.gov).  

Carry on...
- -----------------------------

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE                   NHTSA     78-95 
Monday, December 4, 1995                Contact:  Barry McCahill
                                        Tel. No.: (202) 366-9550

NHTSA PUBLISHES LIST  
OF OCTOBER RECALLS 


General Motors Corp.
     Models:             Buick Lesabre            Year: 1996
                         Buick Park Avenue        Year: 1996
                         Buick Riviera            Year: 1996
                         Oldsmobile 88       Year: 1996
                         Oldsmobile 98       Year: 1996
                         Oldsmobile Aurora        Year: 1996
                         Pontiac Bonneville       Year: 1996
     Manufacture Dates:       March 1995-August 1995
     Number of Vehicles:      32,869
     Recall Number:           95V204000
     System: Ignition and anti-theft. Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards No. 114 and 
No. 208.  
     Vehicle Description: Passenger vehicles.  
     Description of Noncompliance: These vehicles were assembled with a malfunction 
alarm,
     lighting and locking (mall) module that may contain a damaged capacitor.  If the 
capacitor is
     damaged, the "Key in the Ignition" warning chime and the driver seat belt unbuckled 
warning
     chime and indicator lamp may not work.  This does not meet the requirements of 
FMVSS No.
     114, "Theft Protection," and FMVSS No. 208, "Occupant Crash Protection."  In 
addition, other
     chime reminder functions, interior lighting controls and power door locking 
features are also
     affected.  
     Consequence of Noncompliance: The driver may not be aware that the key was left in 
the
     ignition or that the safety belt was not buckled.  
     Corrective Action: Dealers will inspect and, if required, replace the mall module.  
     Note: Owners who take their vehicles to an authorized dealer on an agreed upon 
service date and
     do not receive the free remedy within a reasonable time, should contact Buick at
     1-800-521-7300; Oldsmobile at 1-800-442-6537; or Pontiac at 1-800-762-2737.

------------------------------

From: PHartlieb@aol.com
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 21:37:47 -0300
Subject: Re: Weekend Bummer Explained 

In a message dated 96-06-10 19:44:41 EDT, you write:

>While Greg was re-installing the Wonderbar, a short somewhere apparently 
>caused the wiring harness to catch fire.

I did this once with our '66.  We were working on something under the dash
(had the steering column dropped and the whole instrument panel dropped too).
 The main harness at the ignition switch got pinched when we put it all back
together.  The hot wire shorted, melting the fuse (or something) on the
passenger inner fender and the ignition switch started to melt.  Luckily we
had a quick disconnect battery and Dad was standing right there, or we would
have had real problems.

How much damage is there, and what can we do to help?

Paul

------------------------------

From: ne1469@ix.netcom.com (Karl Davlin )
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 21:39:37 -0300
Subject: Re: Looking for Parts

Bill,

    Would you happen to know what years would work for a '72 Cutlass 
rear window power units.  For example, will a Lamans, Skylark, or 
Chevelle power units including the regulators work in my Cutlass?

                                    Karl
  

You wrote: 
>
>Andrew C. Green wrote:
>> 
>> >       I'm looking for various parts for a '72 Olds Cutlass 
hardtop.
>> >1.  Rear power windows units, motor, arm, ect...
>> 
>> Just curious: Did they actually use _different_ power window motors
>> in the rear doors as compared to the front? And are there different
>> units for right vs. left sides?
>> 
>> Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
>> Datalogics, Inc.
>> 441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@frame.com
>> Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473
>
>Andrew:
>
>Most cars had right & left motors, but if someone has a bad left and a 

>good right, just exchange the gear cases to a good motor.  The best 
>motors to pick from a jund car are the rear or right side ones.  They 
>get the least use.
>
>The window regulators are different for power windows compared to 
manual 
>because of the mounting for the motors.  They are different front & 
>rear because of the shape of the door/body and the travel of the 
window 
>in the channel.  Power windows easily mount into non-power bodies 
>because all of the holes are there to mount up - notice all of the 
>extras when you have your door panels off.  The wires go through the 
>doors into the fromt posts inside a rubber conduit.  These holes have 
to 
>be drilled, but notice the dimples on your door posts and doors for 
>starting the holes. Most of time the 4-door regulators won't fit the 
>2-door ones.  The motors & gears are the same for long years of 
>production.
>
>Bill culp
>
>

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 01:16:36 -0300
Subject: Re: fyi

Doug,

Having only a 30 year-old Toronado to worry about, I don't think it'll
much help to me but it may be to some of the other folks with newer cars.

BTW: I believe the same info is available at http:/www.nhtsa.dot.gov/
though a notification system would certainly be nice.

As you were...

The 66 Toro and Mike


- --
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 19:18:13 -0300
Subject: Re: ignition switch installation

Lucas Frick wrote:
> 
> > Next q does the dealer sell that little brittle gasket that insulates the horn button from ground or do I have to cut one?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks
> Luke

Lucus:

You can use the old one to put in the empty hole in your "new" one.  
Andrew described how to get your old one out using a paper clip to free 
the one under the turnsignal switch.  Put in your key and turn "on" the 
switch.  Probe with the paper clip to push in the tab holding the switch 
(tab located under the turnsignal switch along a line parallel to the 
hole for the switch below it) and pull out the switch.

Install this switch in the opening of the new one just as you took it 
out of the old one.  Turn the switch to off and it should seat and stay. 
You don't have to remove anything from the new one to install this 
switch if only the switch was removed.

Bill Culp

------------------------------

From: bryce_smith@442.com (Bryceman)
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 00:29:02 -0300
Subject: No Mail 

My apologies to anyone who has sent me mail in the last 4 days. A problem
with our internal ethernet at work has kept me from getting mail. Please
re-send anything important.


 EXCESSIVE IRON rules the road!
'65 442
'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender
 bryceman@442.com
 www.442.com

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 19:33:47 -0300
Subject: Re: Looking for Parts

PHartlieb@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 96-06-10 00:45:08 EDT, you write:
> 
> >1.  Rear power windows units, motor, arm, ect...
> 
> Does anyone know if these regulators are the same as a convertible, or are
> they different?
> 
> >> Paul

Paul:

The rears are the same for hardtop and convertible of the same body type 
('68-'72 Cutlass, LesMens, Skylark, & Chevelle).  On the 1961-1963 F-85, 
Buick Special, Pontiac Tempest, & Corvair/Chevy II, the hardtops, 
convertibles, & 2 doors are the same.

Bill Culp

------------------------------

From: Toronado66@aol.com
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 00:41:34 -0300
Subject: The Flaming Dubonette 

To all:

Thanks for all your cards and letters of empathy. You have made me feel a bit
better in my time of loss.

I suppose I should give the long version for the record. 

First of all, Dubonette is a dark purple (plum skin) color that was only
available on 66 Toros (I believe).

Saturday I drove the car up to the shop (about 50 miles north of Milwaukee).
I changed out the radiator to the large high capacity one. It worked perfect.
Then I changed the rear wheel bearings (including knocking out the races and
old seals). I then installed a new turn signal cam unit in the steering
column. Everything worked perfect. As the sun set behind a cloudy, rainy sky,
I thought to myself what a nice day anyway. Got alot of stuff accomplished
today. I was satisfied and content. All was right with the world!  

Sunday morning I arose to another cloudy, rainy day. Can't do yard work,
can't paint the garage, can't put in the air conditioners (like we will ever
need them the way this rotton spring has been here), so...what the heck, lets
pull the wonderbar radio (bad transistor and it won't seek). I take one out
of stock, bench test it, yeah...works fine!

Ok..... I disconnect the battery, drop the column, drop the dash pod. Old
radio comes out clean without a hitch. I install the new one. (Everything
fine so far. Now I pull the bonehead move of the year!) I decide to check the
radio before I put everything back together. I check that nothing is shorted,
connect the battery, turn radio on, BINGO! I have tunes. At that point I
should have shut it off and disconnected the battery again. NO, not me. I
have sit and jam to Bob Marley for 5 minutes. During the jamming, the dash
pod slips off its precarious perch. The light switch (which is always hot)
shorts out against the E-brake handle.
SNAP....CRACKLE...POP......smoke....more smoke...thick black billowing
smoke........fire!!!!  Holy short Batman! (this all in about 2 seconds) I
promptly get knocked on my butt from a shock from trying to move the dash. I
quick run to the battery and disconnect. (by the way, this is a brand new
1000 amp battery) This whole deal took less than 5 seconds. As Dad runs for
the fire extinguisher, I'm busy trying to invent new swear words.....I
actually came up with a few new combinations never heard before! The fire
resovles itself quickly as we waft the smoke out of the cabin. 

Now to inspect the damage. The light switch looks like it was at ground zero
in Hiroshima. The main loom going to firewall is 3 times its normal size and
looks like it went through the Holicost. All the gauges are pointing in
anatomically incorrect positions and finding new and yet to be seen compass
headings...... and the smell...the smell...it will never get out of the car.

I take an exacto blade and peel off the charred and powdered factory loom
wrapping. All the wires are melted together. But, to my surprise, they peel
away from each other rather easily. I spend the next 4 hours carefuly
extracting and unfusing all the wires. (there only are about 60 of them) ):
  

It is repairable. But it will be a mess. Whats more, I feel I will have
little faith in it anymore. Bad wires=headaches and potential fires
again.....woe is me........woe is me..

I called my insurance company right off this morning. I have an
antique/collector policy on it through the Grundy Agency in PA. The gal that
does the claims was not in today, but the gal I talked to stated that it
should be covered and sees no problem with processing the claim.   Lets hope
so!

Perhaps the worst part is having to drive my 1966 Toro California show car
home in the rain Sunday night. It hasn't seen rain in twenty years........and
was totally detailed.....now it its a dirty sow...........aarrggghhhh!

Thanks again for all your sympathy and allowing me a cathartic moment here.


Greg (Sparky) Kalkhoff   ):

------------------------------

From: Lloyd Culp <bculp@hiwaay.net>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 19:53:51 -0300
Subject: Re: The Flaming Dubonette

Toronado66@aol.com wrote:
> 
> To all:
> 
> Thanks for all your cards and letters of empathy. You have made me feel a bit
> better in my time of loss.
> 
> > 
> Greg (Sparky) Kalkhoff   ):

Sparky:

My signal seeking radio doesn't work in the '67 Toro.  I am replacing 
the dash pads and windshield.  Should I stop while I am ahead?  Sorry.  
I'll try to remember your warnings.  Good luck & I know that you'll work 
carefully and save it.

Bill Culp

------------------------------

From: Mike Frederick <edison3@cpeq.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 12:33:54 -0300
Subject: Re: The Flaming Dubonette

Sparky,

We were all wondering what that mushroom cloud to the north was.

Well, on the bright side, at least the insurance company seems agreeable 
(so far).  It sure looks like wiring harness time.  Hopefully they'll pay 
to replace it.  That is, hopefully they pay SOMEONE ELSE to replace it.  
(Wiring harnesses can be a real pain in the *ss)

BTW, there are companies that specialize in fixing fire damage in houses. 
Maybe they could give you some tips on getting the smoke and smell out of 
the cabin.  Might save you a lot of time and trouble.

Best wishes in your time of need.  
(Seems kind of odd saying that to a Funeral Director)

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #200
********************************

