
oldsmobile-digest           Tuesday, 9 July 1996        Volume 01 : Number 229


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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:16:39 -0300
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Chris Brown Witt wrote:
> 
> > Hey speaking of toro's, I've often wondered why they never reached a
> > higher level of collectability? After all they were the " flag ship" 
> > of the olds line, and i believe way ahead of there time.
> 
> Well, a lot of folks are more interested in performance, ya know... 
> [uh-oh, *dons asbestos underwear*]
> 
> > really grown on me over the years and it woulndn't surprise me if 
> > some day one of these will sit next to one of my 4-4-2s. Take care.
> 
> Grown on you, like a.. oh never mind, I think the water's hot enough 
> already!
> That VIRUS! It spreads & spreads! If only I had a -CARB- on the red 
> one, I could still drive it around the fields, too!

Oh, this is going to be fun to watch!      ;)

The 66 Toro and Mike

 
- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649




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Subject: Foot in Mouth  Was: #10 heads, misc stuff
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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:16:42 -0300
Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) 

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At 08:00 AM 7/8/96 -0400, you wrote:
>I'm looking for the individual who got the engine kit for his 403 for

Oooh, oooh, me, that's me! ;)

>like $620 with forged pistons, rockers, etc. from Performance Suspension
>Technologies?  How was the stuff?  What brand pistons?  Adjustable
>rockers?  And who are you, because I forgot.  Sorry.  How rude.

Well, I'm deeply offended, and have changed my e-mail address because of
this... 

Actually, the kit was $590, since a true roller timing chain set was not
available for the Olds from PST. The pistons were TRW forged pistons (are
there even any other non-custom forged pistons available for the 403?).
Other "brand" items were the Speed-Pro chrome-moly rings, Clevite 77
bearings, and the Detroit Gasket and Fel-Pro gaskets. 

Most everything else was "white-box" parts, but they certainly looked
quality enough. One possible exception was the rocker stands. Rather than a
single cast aluminum piece for each bridge, there were individual cast
fulcrums joined by a stamped-steel bridge strap. These pieces were all
pretty heavy-duty, hence I'm not worried about using them; they are just a
different design than the stock and usual replacement parts.

>Their number, for anyone interested, is
>800 247-2288

I haven't fired the engine up yet (later this week), but from what I've seen
I highly recommend the PST kits. They give you much more than the other kits
I've seen (PAW, Mondello), with the same-quality components, for a lower
price. What more can you ask for?

- -----------
- - Bob Barry
- - 1969 Toronado & 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX (the 455 big-block boys)
- - 1978 Electra Coupe (409 Olds SMALL-block powered!)



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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:16:44 -0300
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Greetings!

I was returning from a weekend on the beaches of Delaware when I saw a used
car lot with about 20 cars from the 50's and 60's for sale.  Stopped to look
and found many Mustangs, Cadillacs, a 57 T-Bird that my girlfriend fell in
love with, and one lonely Oldsmobile.  It's an '83 H/O Black and gray exterior.
Interior looked pretty good (to me).  The gauges claimed 62K miles.  The
car had 15" chrome SSII (or SSIII, they were chrome so what's the
difference?) wheels that needed some attention.  The bottoms of the doors
did not exhibit any deterioration.  The car also has a moonroof.
One strange thing, the lower sections of the body, the parts that were painted
gray were not smooth, but had a textured look.  It was even throughout the
bottom of the car on both sides.  Was this a factory feature?  It looked
like a good way to hide rust bubbles.  Make the whole bottom of the car
look like rust bubbles from the start!  Ingenious!
The H/O was one of the few cars on the lot that did not have a price on the
window.  The place was closed so I couldn't ask.  If anyone's interested,
the place was Gene's Auto Sales in Bridgeville Delaware.  Sorry, I don't
have a number, but I will pass the place again on weekends throughout the
summer, if anyone needs it.

Radiator
- --------
I am replacing the radiator in my '71 CS.  I bought a new heavy duty 4-row
unit from a local shop, and when we tried to put it in the car, it
didn't sit low enough.  It turns out that the new rad has a drainage valve
on the bottom of the tank, directly down below the filler spout.  This valve
was hitting the shelf or body piece below where the rad sits, so it
wouldn't sit in there correctly.  Anyone else run into this problem?

I suppose I could cut a hole where the valve wants to sit, but I'm not sold
on that idea.  My current plan is to take both the old and new radiators to
the rad shop and exchange for one that compares more closely to the old
one.  I will have to pull the rad one night, take them to the shop
during lunch the next day, and install them after work that night.
Now my only problem is, how do I plug the transmission line, or what
do I use to plug it for an entire day while I take the radiators with me to
the shop?  Any suggestions?

I'm on the digest list, so please CC any suggestions to me at
senko@reston.ans.net so that I might get them before I do the work on the
car.  Thanks.
                                                                 _
- --                                                               |\
Drew Senko                   Convertibles         .__====-_._____|_\______
senko@reston.ans.net             Rule!            [   ___  |-     |  ___  \
http://members.gnn.com/senko                      =\_//.\\_|______|_//.\\__)
______________________________________________________\_/____________\_/_____


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Subject: H/O sighted; replacing radiator
To: oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca (olds)
Date: 	Mon, 8 Jul 1996 11:21:08 -0300
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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:16:45 -0300
Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) 

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Hi Paul:
          
What is the advantage of these expensive "high torque" starters if one is 
having no starter problems?  From what I have seen and read about them, they 
are actually small electric motors using a reduction gear drive.  I thought 
they were a "race" item intended to reduce weight a few ounces.
          
Other than that, what do they have to offer?
          
Bob Handren
          
          
          
          There seems to be some confusion between "hi-torque 
          starters" and the reduced-diameter racing starters which are 
          available.  Hi-torque starters, as have been noted by others 
          on the list, are designed to provide additional torque 
          (surprize!) required to spin over a large displacement, high 
          compression engine.  Typically, a hi-torque starter uses a 
          stock housing and just has additional/larger windings to 
          provide the additional torque.  The reason that those who 
          have e-mailed in on the subject have had no problems with 
          their stock starters is that these are already hi-torque 
          units.  
          
          An easy way to identify a factory hi-torque from a wimpy 
          starter is to look at the location of the copper tab which 
          penetrates the main starter body and is bolted to the botton 
          terminal of the solenoid.  A normal starter will have this 
          tab penetrating from the starter body virtually adjacent to 
          the solenoid terminal (a inch or two in from the end of the 
          starter).  A factory hi-torque will have this tab 
          penetrating much closer to the end of the starter body.  An 
          original solenoid will use an extended bottom terminal to 
          mate to this tab, while aftermarker replacements will 
          typically come with a little copper tube to extend the 
          terminal to reach the tab.
          
          Note that it is possible to have these starters rebuilt for 
          even greater starting torque.  I had one done for my 71 
          Cutlass (dual quads, nitrous, 10.5:1 455 - the ex got it) 
          and it made a significant difference in cranking speed.  You 
          must start with a factory hi-torque core.  Cost (about 10 
          years ago) was somewhat under $100.
          
          The lighter weight/reduced diameter units others have 
          referred to on the list, as noted, are racing units designed 
          for reduced weight and improved chassis/header clearance in 
          addition to increased torque.  These often use improved 
          magnetic materials (I think "Magnaquench" is one brand name) 
          instead of iron for the same or greater magnetic force with 
          reduced volume and weight.  I think GM actually developed 
          this technology as a way of making cars smaller and lighter 
          for improved gas mileage.
          
          BTW, GM starters typically do not use gear reduction drives 
          in the starter (yes, I know the gear on the Bendix and the 
          gear on the flywheel counts as a gear reduction). Chrysler 
          always has, which is the reason for the characteristic Mopar 
          starter whine. (Oh, I can hear the one-liners now....)
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30



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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:22:28 -0300
Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) 

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Hey, I won't say who exactly [not me], but someone is investigating the
possibility of obtaining an old 455? experimental engine... Previous owner used
to be an engineer at Olds, managed to divert an engine from the infamous
Friedland yard... been in the family for years... now, a move forces garage
cleanout.

Be very interesting to see that unit...

I'll let him tell the whole story himself if/when the time arises. They *are*
out there, though.
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu


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Subject: experimental engine
To: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu, oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Date: 	Mon, 8 Jul 1996 11:37:34 -0300
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:22:30 -0300
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          I have always used headers on my 442s and found a wide 
          variety in quality and fit.  The best and the worst have 
          been Kenne-Bell units (does K-B still do Olds parts, or have 
          the 5.slow parts caused them to drop Olds?).  The first set 
          of K-B headers I bought went on the 71 Cutlass with the 455 
          and dual quads.  This car had a 'glass tilt front end, so I 
          had the headers porcelain coated by a vendor in the LA area. 
          The fit was excellent (OK, having a tilt front helped a 
          little with accessability for installation) and the 
          porcelain held up great.  This car had a TH400.
          
          My second experience with K-B headers came about 5 years 
          after the first, when I needed to replace the headers on the 
          70 W-30.  Having had good results the first time, I ordered 
          a second set.  Apparently K-B had changed design or vendors, 
          as the headers were now only available in chrome, at a 
          significant price increase.  The headers also did not fit 
          very well (the 70 is a 4-spd car and has stock fenders), 
          with much interference to the clutch linkage.  Once in, 
          however, I have had little trouble in almost 10 years.  
          Collector gaskets need to be replaced periodically (about 
          every two years - you DO keep a spare set in the garage, 
          don't you).
          
          I've also used Hedman (good fit on a previous 68 442, also a 
          TH400 car) and Black Jack (on a 74 Chevy 454 pickup).  The 
          latter were aluminum sprayed, which is much more durable 
          than the porcelain but is stained by spilled oil.  I plan to 
          try Hooker next, as they seem to be the best built and 
          best-fitting units.
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30



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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:22:31 -0300
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Anyone have a '67 330 engine lying about, dismantled? The one with casting ID
"3"? If so, please contact me, I have a question for you.
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu


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Subject: any 330's?
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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:22:32 -0300
Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) 

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> Most everything else was "white-box" parts, but they certainly looked
> quality enough. One possible exception was the rocker stands. Rather than a
> single cast aluminum piece for each bridge, there were individual cast
> fulcrums joined by a stamped-steel bridge strap. These pieces were all
> pretty heavy-duty, hence I'm not worried about using them; they are just a
> different design than the stock and usual replacement parts.

> - Bob Barry

I just rebuilt my 69 400 and came across these exact same replacements. When I
dissassembled my engine I found 3 broken right where the bridge turns into the
foot. From an engineering standpoint, I think the new design is better in that
it eliminates this high stress area in a casting. 


 				Pat Clark
    				 69 442
    			        400/TH400
    			  clark@abu.dseg.ti.com

     The careful application of terror is also a form of communication.


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From: clark@sh28.dseg.ti.com (Pat Clark 952-3776)
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To: oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: Re: Performance Suspension Technologies
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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:22:35 -0300
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>Who?  Me?
>
>> Looks like it could develope into a nice enthusiasts site.
>
>Sure does.  Hope we can maintain a dialogue with them.  I figure it could 
>only be in our best interest to have friends at corporate.
>
>The 66 Toro and Mike
>
>
>Mike:

I'm sure that you recommended teh ressurrection of the Toronado - possibly
something like a Riviera W/Aurora drivetrain properly modified to 375 horses.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama
>
>
>



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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:32:50 -0300
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I have a 69 dash for sale. The cost is $150 + $15.00 shipping.  If interested, 
my name is Art and I can be reached at mefco@sprynet.com.


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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:32:52 -0300
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I came across 1 1966 Toronado for sale in Medford, Southern Oregon.  Car
has obviously been sitting for a long time.  It has bias ply tires (with
air in them).  Paint (gold) is terrible.  Body has some dents.  Interior
has been baked under the sun.  But everything is there and no rust.  

The car has air conditioning.  The other unusual thing about it was that
the car has an air pump.  According to my service manual, the 1966
Toronados sold in California had air pumps.  Who would have thought that
these air pumps go back to 1966.

Oh, the guy wants $1,500.  He says the car runs great.  Well if so, it
must run far better than it looks.  So if anyone is looking for a
restoration project in Southern Oregon, please let me know!

Paul Bartlett E-mail bartletp@osshe.edu



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From: Paul Bartlett <bartletp@osshe.edu>
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Subject: found 1966 Toronado for sale
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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:32:54 -0300
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Andrew A. Senko wrote:
> 
> Greetings!
> 
> I was returning from a weekend on the beaches of Delaware when I saw a used
> car lot with about 20 cars from the 50's and 60's for sale.  Stopped to look
> and found many Mustangs, Cadillacs, a 57 T-Bird that my girlfriend fell in
> love with, and one lonely Oldsmobile.  It's an '83 H/O Black and gray
exterior.
> Interior looked pretty good (to me).  The gauges claimed 62K miles.  The
> car had 15" chrome SSII (or SSIII, they were chrome so what's the
> difference?) wheels that needed some attention.  The bottoms of the doors
> did not exhibit any deterioration.  The car also has a moonroof.
> One strange thing, the lower sections of the body, the parts that were
painted
> gray were not smooth, but had a textured look.  It was even throughout the
> bottom of the car on both sides.  Was this a factory feature?  It looked
> like a good way to hide rust bubbles.  Make the whole bottom of the car
> look like rust bubbles from the start!  Ingenious!
> The H/O was one of the few cars on the lot that did not have a price on the
> window.  The place was closed so I couldn't ask.  If anyone's interested,
> the place was Gene's Auto Sales in Bridgeville Delaware.  Sorry, I don't
> have a number, but I will pass the place again on weekends throughout the
> summer, if anyone needs it.
> 
> Radiator
> --------
> I am replacing the radiator in my '71 CS.  I bought a new heavy duty 4-row
> unit from a local shop, and when we tried to put it in the car, it
> didn't sit low enough.  It turns out that the new rad has a drainage valve
> on the bottom of the tank, directly down below the filler spout.  This valve
> was hitting the shelf or body piece below where the rad sits, so it
> wouldn't sit in there correctly.  Anyone else run into this problem?
> 
> I suppose I could cut a hole where the valve wants to sit, but I'm not sold
> on that idea.  My current plan is to take both the old and new radiators to
> the rad shop and exchange for one that compares more closely to the old
> one.  I will have to pull the rad one night, take them to the shop
> during lunch the next day, and install them after work that night.
> Now my only problem is, how do I plug the transmission line, or what
> do I use to plug it for an entire day while I take the radiators with me to
> the shop?  Any suggestions?
> 
> I'm on the digest list, so please CC any suggestions to me at
> senko@reston.ans.net so that I might get them before I do the work on the
> car.  Thanks.
>                                                                  _
> --                                                               |\
> Drew Senko                   Convertibles         .__====-_._____|_\______
> senko@reston.ans.net             Rule!            [   ___  |-     |  ___  \
> http://members.gnn.com/senko                      =\_//.\\_|______|_//.\\__)
> ______________________________________________________\_/____________\_/_____
The 83 Hurst/Olds has chip-guard paint on the lower paint surface, this 
is factory and is standard on both my 83 H/O & 86 442. You didn't mention 
the color of the interior, was it maroon or snad gray?
	Just a hint on the price, I just picked up an 83 H/O about 6 
months ago with get this "9969 original miles" all options including 
T-tops. The guy even ordered the entire stripe/decal kit sealed new from 
GM when he bought the car & extra seat skins, his reason was "just in 
case". OK with me! The total for this almost new 13 year old toy...... 
$15,000.00, worth it, depends if your asking me or my wife. The answers 
do vary a bit!

- -- 
Bill !                                      _           _       ___
                                          /  |        /  |    /  _  \
83 Hurst/Olds 15th Aniversary Edition   /    |      /    |   |_|   | |
86 442 The Perfect "10"               /  / | |_   /  / | |_      /  /
                                     |_____   _| |_____   _|   /  /__
                                           |_|         |_|   |_______|

        See the site at http://yogi-bear.stjohns.edu/~toychest


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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:32:57 -0300
Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) 

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Clint "Syntax error" :-) writes:
>On Fri, 5 Jul 1996, Shawn Twomey wrote:
>> Those of us driving G-body's (78-87 Cutlasses) that have t-tops have an
>> interior lighting problem, as no overhead dome light is provided - there
>> are two lights down by the kick panels and two in the rear passenger
>> compartment, but these are hardly adequate when you need to see inside
>> your car at night.  I know that Andrew had an overhead map light console
>> that fit rather well and attached to the center plastic trip piece
>> between the tops, but apparently this product is no longer available.

Too true, unfortunately. Somebody with a vacuum-forming machine could
probably turn out a nice imitation of it if someone wants to contact
Bryce's boss about loaning us the original for a pattern.  :-)

>Hmm... I have a dome light that Wynand put into the car before I bought
>it.  It sits directly above the center console between the seat headrests
>(if that makes any sense).  It has a cool three way switch on  it as well,
>but it's getting flakely.

Let me guess: the three positions are Off, On-by-Itself and On-When-The-
Doors-Are-Open. A little creative wiring and you can reproduce this with
other aftermarket lights, as someone else mentioned.

The confusing thing about the interior lights is that they're on a
switched _ground_ circuit, instead of a switched power circuit like 
practically everything else. You use the orange always-hot circuit 
for power, and if you ground the black wire straight to the body at 
that point, only that light goes on. If you tap into the (um... white?) 
wire which collects the grounds for all the other interior lights on the
circuit, it will go on with all the other lights when somebody opens a 
door and triggers one of the pin switches in the door jamb. So getting
back to the Cool Three Way Switch example you cited, the way that would
be wired would be:

Off: Ground wire connects nowhere (i.e. isolated; switched off)
On-By-Itself: Ground wire goes straight to ground in sheet metal
On-When-The-Doors-Are-Open: Ground wire connects to white interior
light circuit common-ground wiring; whenever that grounds, all go on 

Clear as mud now?  :-)

>I'll be reqiring it when I redo the interior and put a hidden radar 
>detector up there...

Funny you should mention that; Bryce has some photos of my T-top remote
radar and tach overhead installation that are waiting to be scanned for
the web page.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473



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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:32:59 -0300
Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) 

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>One strange thing, the lower sections of the body, the parts that were painted
>gray were not smooth, but had a textured look.  It was even throughout the
>bottom of the car on both sides.  Was this a factory feature?

Yes, as someone else mentioned, it's a textured clearcoat stone guard.
Even the lowliest Chevettes get this stuff applied. Works all right, IMHO,
but on dark-colored cars it's a royal pain to get dried wax out of all the
crevices.

>I am replacing the radiator in my '71 CS.  I bought a new heavy duty 4-row
>unit from a local shop, and when we tried to put it in the car, it
>didn't sit low enough.  It turns out that the new rad has a drainage valve
>on the bottom of the tank, directly down below the filler spout.  This valve
>was hitting the shelf or body piece below where the rad sits, so it
>wouldn't sit in there correctly.  Anyone else run into this problem?

Only when the dingbats shipped me the wrong replacement. I.e. AFAIK the
crossmember is the same regardless of radiator for that particular car,
but it's easiest when you're doing a straight swap and can match the old
to the new. If you're upgrading to a 4-row, I guess you could still use
the "footing" of the old one for comparison, though, even if it's smaller
than the new one. Uh, would the rubber supports be different as well?

>My current plan is to take both the old and new radiators to
>the rad shop and exchange for one that compares more closely to the old
>one.

Second that idea.

>Now my only problem is, how do I plug the transmission line, or what
>do I use to plug it for an entire day while I take the radiators with me to
>the shop?  Any suggestions?

To be honest I don't remember that I bothered to plug it since nothing was
dribbling out by itself, but if you want to, I would use either a couple of
old wooden golf tees pressed into place, or splurge a couple of bucks on a
little set of plugs made for the purpose: you get about six different sizes
on a bead-chain (like a key ring), and just stick in whichever ones fit.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473



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Date: 	Mon, 8 Jul 1996 11:53:51 -0300
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From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Subject: Re: H/O sighted; replacing radiator
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------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 19:30:31 -0300
Subject: Re: 66 98 Stumpers 

>Been watching your posts for a few weeks now and hope I have the tone and
>level of question right.

Gee, I hope not; we've been trying to put a stop to that...  :-)

>2) Motor is a 455 .030 over, ported & polished running a holley 780 (vacuum
>secondary) with factory duals. Have a new 4 row radiator in there, but it 
>still gets up to 220 or so on hot days (90+) pretty fast (10-15 minutes).

That doesn't sound right. Have you pressure-tested the system and the
cap? Have you got a 50/50 coolant mixture? With a new radiator and shroud
in place I would have thought that would be sufficient right there.

>6) The torque rods in the trunk don't lift the lid all the way anymore. 
>I've swapped for about 10 years now, but they're all worn out.

Can you move the rods up to the next notch? (Usually there are a couple
of spare notches at one end to crank up the torsion as required.)

>Today's Hint: Didja know that those big 1 gallon jugs of Pine Sol you buy 
>at price club make great carb cleaner? Pour full strength into a 
>bucket, drop in carb pieces and in a day or so, they'll scrub clean easily.
>I think this is cheaper and better for the environment than solvent.

I've used that cleaner for soaking paint off of old trim and hardware
around the house (e.g. door hinges, doorknobs, fancy switchplates) when
repainting -- just remove and toss into a coffee can for a day --
amazing stuff.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:40:52 -0300
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Helluva nice site you got there! (www.442.com)  Lotsa great info.  Hey,
who's that chick on the welcome page?  She looks a lot like my first
girlfriend...  

- -BS


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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:40:54 -0300
Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) 

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> >Now my only problem is, how do I plug the transmission line, or what
> >do I use to plug it for an entire day while I take the radiators with me to
> >the shop?  Any suggestions?

Didn't plug mine. For as the esteemed Mr. Green metioned earlier, nothing was
coming out (slight dribble maybe). I just put a sandwich baggy over the open
end
with a tight rubber band. This caught all the fluid dribbles and kept dirt and
bugs out until I put the rad back in.

 				Pat Clark
    				 69 442
    			        400/TH400
    			  clark@abu.dseg.ti.com

     The careful application of terror is also a form of communication.


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From: clark@sh28.dseg.ti.com (Pat Clark 952-3776)
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To: oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
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------------------------------

From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:40:56 -0300
Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) 

InBox Message Type: Error
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- ------------------------- Original Message Follows -------------------------
> At 04:52 PM 6/21/96 -0300, Chris Brown Witt wrote:
> >Anybody KNOW for sure the casting code and/or number for a LH duals xst
> >manifold for a 70 88 such as W33 car?

Jason Writes:
> The Mitchell Interchange Manual that I have gives the following casting #'s:
> 1970 455, 390hp Dual Exhaust
> LH: 406199
>
> *this manifold can be found on the following cars:
> Olds 65-66, 425, LH, Dual Exh
> Olds 67, 425, Dual Exh, LH
> Olds 68-69, 455, Dual Exh, LH
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Olds 70, 455, 390HP, LH

That's funny, the '69 big car 455 I just recently picked up has not a 406199 LH
xst manifold, but an "S" manifold, the number of which escapes me right now.
The mystery is still thick...
- --
Chris  B. Witt         *the* Rocket Scientist
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu


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------------------------------

From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:45:31 -0300
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Hello all,
Found these things while surfing ads looking
for a '68 posi 3.42:1 or so rearend (anyone?).
Appropriate to post here?

have three genuine 1956 Olds Starfire
                 15" spinner hubcaps, vg street condition, $75. Have spoiler
                 for 1978-81 Trans Am, $50. All prices + S&H to your location.
                 Call 704.758.4500 from noon-6 p.m. ET.    (5/9)
                  Email: tarkas@twave.net

 Big block Olds? Pistons, rods, rings-GM part#386040.
                 4.190" across piston-dished dome. All for $35.  (4/24)
                  Email: QYGH84A@prodigy.com

 1949 Oldsmobile block, crank, pistons and various parts in
                  restorable condition. Block is in good shape. Trade for
                  Ford 351 Cleveland block and other Cleveland parts.
                  1949 LaSalle 3-speed manual transmission, restorable.
                  Trade for ?
                  Please call if you think you have anything worth trading.
                  Darren, 415-855-9073 (CA)-leave message. (3/11)


Nielsen Design Group
114 East Front Street
Traverse City, Michigan 49684
616.946.0925
ndg@traverse.com




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------------------------------

From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:45:31 -0300
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>Also note that adding lights MAY require you to change the fuse to one 
>with a slightly higher rating

...and those of you who stuck a penny in the fusebox may need to upgrade
to a nickel.  :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473



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------------------------------

From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 19:37:03 -0300
Subject: Re: Other lists...

>Does anybody know where I can get a list of other mailing lists?  My
>brother, an Olds fan at heart, needs to find a list dealing with AMC's --
>Gremlins in particular.  If anyone could point me in the right direction, my
>brother would sure appreciate it.

Sho'nuff. He needs to send email to

listserv@scan.si.edu

with "subscribe amc-list your_full_name" in the body of the message.
>From what I see listed for this in www.eauto.com (follow the links
for "automakers", then "American Motors"), it's a general AMC list;
There is no specific Gremlin list, probably due to some picky 
requirement like having to have more than one person on it, that 
sort of thing.  ;-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473

------------------------------

From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:45:32 -0300
Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) 

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Nielsen Design Group wrote:
> 
> Hello all,
> Found these things while surfing ads looking
> for a '68 posi 3.42:1 or so rearend (anyone?).
> Appropriate to post here?

Leads are always appriciated.  

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649



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------------------------------

From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:45:35 -0300
Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) 

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Lloyd Culp wrote:
> 
> I'm sure that you recommended teh ressurrection of the Toronado - 
> possibly something like a Riviera W/Aurora drivetrain properly modified 
> to 375 horses.

Yeah, that sounds real good to me.  I've noticed the front fender line of 
the Riviera has a bit of a edge to it.  A little modification to the 
fenders and a front end treatment similar to the early Toros and I gettin 
in line!

The 66 Toro and Mike


- -- 
Michael R. Frederick, CEO
Edison3, Incorporated
Tampa, Florida
(813) 210-8649



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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:45:36 -0300
Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) 

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>The rear-view mirror on that car has map lights on the underside that,

Wow!  What a novel idea.  My '72 Cutlass Supreme came with one of
those...  Unfortunately, I just swapped it out to one with no lights,
because it was so loose that no matter how tight you tightened the
screw, it would still fall down.  There must have been a "Shitload o'
Lights" option back then...

- -BS


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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:47:31 -0300
Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) 

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I am replacing the radiator in my '71 CS.  I bought a new heavy duty 4-row 
unit from a local shop, and when we tried to put it in the car, it
didn't sit low enough....

          I've done the 4-row swap into a number of 68-72 Cutlass/442 
          bodies over the years.  I've always been out for the most 
          cooling capability I could get, so I've tried to get Olds 98 
          radiators ("what's the biggest Olds 98 with air radiator you 
          can get?").  Most radiator shops have catalogs with pages 
          and pages of different configurations with all dimentions.  
          It turns out that the core (as opposed to the end tanks) has 
          the same length and width for virtually all Olds 
          applications of that vintage (can't vouch for the odd-Toro, 
          though :), with the only differnce in the thickness.  Also, 
          all of these radiators have the drain plug facing the 
          engine, not the crossmember.  This leads me to believe that 
          you have been given the wrong unit (that _never_ happens!).
          
          I _have_ had to make some mods to the crossmember, however.  
          It turns out that the tanks (and cores, however the radiator 
          is supported at the flange where the core is soldered to the 
          tanks) on these 4-row units are wider than the rubber 
          isolators on the crossmember and upper plate, with the 
          result that the radiator will not fit all the way down into 
          these isolators.  This is especially true if you are 
          starting with a car which originally had a 2-row radiator.  
          These rubber isolators fit into U-shaped metal brackets 
          which are spot welded to the crossmember and which are 
          formed into the top plate.  I'm sure it's possible to find 
          the correct crossmember and top plate, but failing that, 
          I've found that the judicious application of a two pound 
          sledge hammer will customize the brackets.
          
          The best way to do this is to first remove the rubber 
          isolators, then flatten the metal brackets on the 
          crossmember. It is only necessary to bent the forward leg of 
          the brackets.  The rubber isolators can then be reinstalled. 
          They are held in place with molded-in bosses which are 
          pushed into holes in the brackets.  The bosses which fit 
          into the forward leg of the bracket will obviously no longer 
          fit and should be cut off of the isolator.  The single rear 
          boss will be sufficient, as the assembly is captured by the 
          radiator once it is in place.  Repeat this process on the 
          upper brackets and the new thicker radiator will drop into 
          place.
          
          The trans cooler lines should mate right up.  One thing to 
          be aware of when selecting a new radiator, however, is the 
          diameter of the inlet and outlet bosses.  If they are 
          different from your original unit, you may need to scan a 
          radiator hose catalog for correct hoses.  This is not a big 
          deal, as this radiator _was_ used on another Olds, so the 
          correct diameter hoses should be available.
          
          As I said, I've done this on several A-body cars and have 
          never seen the temperature go over 190, even with the feeble 
          four-bladed fan and the shroud missing!
          
          Joe Padavano
          jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
          
          66 442
          68 W-30
          69 H/O
          70 W-30



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Subject: Radiator Stuff (was: H/O sighted; replacing radiator)
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------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 20:52:16 -0300
Subject: Re: Oldsmobile Centennial Info 

In a message dated 96-07-09 11:26:31 EDT, you write:

<<    Oldsmobile Centennial will be held in Lansing, MI Aug 
           20-23,1997.  We would like to know if you are interested in 
           coming.  If you would like a form sent to you regarding 
           attending, contact Dave_Byers@Lansing-Online.com with name 
           and address and we will mail one out.  Olds forever!
            >>

Joe:

I'm confused  -nothing new, but Olds Division has already been informed of my
possible attendance.  Is this different, related, ??

Bob Handren

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 20:52:34 -0300
Subject: Re: 67 diff. 

In a message dated 96-07-09 10:30:02 EDT, you write:

<< I also have a diff that came out of a 67 cutlass (not the original rear
nor
 a limited slip) this one has a 12 bolt cover but is not a 12 bolt rear it
 also has 3.08 gears. Is there any reason why I can't swap the gears and put
 them in the rear that has the limited slip? I assume that since the good
 diff. has a 10 bolt ring gear, it would fit. Any help would be appreciated
 as I'm planning on swapping them this weekend.
 >Dave Isho davei-2@mail.idt.net >>

Nope, can't swap gears.  The 10 bolt cover rear is a "B" or "P" rear, the 12
bolt cover with 10 bolt gears is a type "O".  The "B" and "P" gears will
interchange but not the "O".  Why not just swap the complete "O" rear into
the '67?  Even if the ring gears would swap, how would you set them up
(pinion depth, back lash, bearing loads...)?

Bob Handren

------------------------------

From: BobH592058@aol.com
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 20:52:33 -0300
Subject: Re: Need parts identified... 

In a message dated 96-07-09 10:44:54 EDT, you write:

<<  I looked up 411828 in a full size Olds parts catalog (already a dubious 
 effort for an engine out of a Cutlass): it is assigned to fuel tank straps
for 73-74 exc. 
  wagons.  >>


The number is a casting number, not a part number.  According to the Mondell
Bible 411828 isn't in his listing of head casting numbers.

There is a 411929 however (the original post said something about lots of
grime, poor lighting, etc.) which is said to be 1976 small block head.  It
would be a number "8" head if this correct.

Bob Handren

------------------------------

From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:47:34 -0300
Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) 

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- ------------------------- Original Message Follows -------------------------
          
 Big block Olds? Pistons, rods, rings-GM part#386040.
                 4.190" across piston-dished dome. All for $35.  (4/24)
                                      ^^^^^^^^^^^
                  
                  Is that like jumbo shrimp?
                  
                  Joe Padavano
                  jpada@hqgate.orbital.com
                  
                  66 442
                  68 W-30
                  69 H/O
                  70 W-30

          
          
          



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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:47:35 -0300
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> Brad, I use 10W40 Vavoline to break in my engines for 500 miles. 

Okay...

>Then I switch to 20W50 Vavoline.  I run that for 1000 more miles
>to protect my engines.

I think you lost me here. Why the upgrade in viscosity? And what
are you protecting your engines against for that 1000 miles? 
Just curious...

>As for redline, I use 
>their water wetter additive and boy does it make a difference.  Many
>racers in this area use Redline and found it to be a very good and 
>helpful product.

Agreed; I heard a lot of good stuff about this on the British cars
list back when I was on that...

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473



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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:47:37 -0300
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>First project is to drain the 10 year old gas and get some fresh fuel in it. 
>Any suggestions before I start the engine for the first time in several
>years?

*** WARNING ***
This muther-scratcher is l-o-n-g...

I'm no mechanical wizzard, but I'd be pretty suprised if it even turns over
after ten years.  Mine sat for three years (because I didn't have my
driver's licence or a job), and according to the previous owner, it now
runs better than it did before he sold it to me.  This is what I did, and
what I suggest...  

First, check the oil level to make sure there's something there.  If there is,
it's likely some kind of black sludge.  If there's not enough, add some until
there is.  Next, Throw a battery in it and see if it will turn over.  Don't try
and start it, just see if it turns.  If it turns over, stop and change the oil
and filter.  Make sure you drain it completely.  Undoubtedly, there will be
a ton of thick stuff in the bottom of your oil pan.  Your best bet would be
to drop the pan, clean it out, then re-install it.  Might be a good idea to
install a new oil pump at this time, also.   If you don't do that, your next
best bet is frequent oil changes.  After my initial change, I changed it
again at 500 miles, 1000 miles, 1500 miles, then 2000 miles.  That's just to
clean out all the gunk.  Believe me, your oil will be dirty again after the
first 500 miles.  I also added a can of Engine Restorer (some sort of oil
additive that supposedly removes varnish and restores compression),
though some people are of the oppinion that oil additives do more harm
than good.  Didn't seem to cause any problems for me.  After changing
the oil (and cleaning out oil pan, if you decide to), make sure you check
the other fluids (cooling, brake, tranny, etc).  You'll definately want some
fresh gas.  You'd probably be wise to install a new fuel filter.  It wouldn't
be a bad idea to install an in-line fuel filter somewhere between your gas
tank and fuel pump, unless you want to clog up your fuel pump with
debris from the tank.  I'd recommend checking both filters after your first
tank or two of clean gas.  Even if you drop the gas tank and clean it out,
there will probably be lingering debris that will detach itself througout the
first few weeks of use.  I would run your tanks down as low as you
dare to clean out all the stuff that settles at the bottom.  I would also for
the first few tanks add some fuel additives.  Pick the ones that clean
your carb injectors, reduce valve-ping, etc.  This should get you going
for a while, but sooner or later (probably sooner), you'll most likely have
to change the gaskets/seals in your engine and tranny, as they've
probably dried and shrunk and will begin leaking profusely.  I don't
recommend using additives that supposedly restore those leaky seals,
because they only work temporarily, and they probably just gum things
up.  It's also a given that your carb will need rebuilt.  One day you might
pop the hood and find a big puddle of bubbling gas on your manifold.  Or
better yet, a raging fire.  I learned that the hard way.  I didn't burn up, but
I got stranded in the middle of winter at 3 AM a long way from home.  
OK, I'm almost done!!!  One more thing:  After you get the engine running,
replace the spark plugs, wires, distributor cap/points/etc., then break out
the timing light.  You should also check the fluid in the rearend.  Check 
the U-joints, and all the other driveline components.  And while you've got
the tranny down to change the seals, you might as well install a tranny
filter and clean all the junk out of your tranny pan.  After all that, she
oughtta run pretty strong.  Sooner or later, other minor things will start to
go out -- if they haven't already.  Like the water pump, brakes, etc.  If
your master brake cylinder was too far below the fill level, you'll probably
have to rebuild that or get a newly rebuilt one.  If you're going to keep
your car original, I'd rebuild the original one, because the new rebuilt one
won't look the same.  I had my mechanic friend fix my brakes for me
(after they went completely out and nearly got me killed), and he
swapped out my master cylinder for a new rebuilt.  I was pissed!  If I'd
have known he was going to do that, I'd have done it myself!  At any
rate, you've got a lot of work ahead of you if you want to avoid a major
overhaul in the near future.  But believe me, it's a lot cheaper to do all this
stuff than to have an engine overhaul.  And most of it will have to be
done anyway!  If you're engine still turns over, you should be in good
shape.  I've been driving my car for three years since I finished
doing all that, and haven't had a *single* problem since (except that my
timing chain is worn out and I have a few bent pushrods...  Good luck!

- -Blaine, and my
'72 Cutlass Supreme

P.S. - I also recommend thoroughly back-flushing the cooling system.  If
there has been any liquid in it for the past ten years, it's gonna be
severely corroded.  Check your thermostat at the same time, and replace
if nescessary.  [check thermostat by heating water to the correct temp
then drop thermostat in and see if it opens up]


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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:47:38 -0300
Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) 

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Last week we had the rad out of my '68. Donnie (mechanic par excellance) 
had a neat set of little c-clamp type things for sealing the trans cooler 
lines. Looked like torture thumbscrews or whatever, except they had 
little rubber nipples on one end to seal the lines and a slot in the 
other end to grab the fitting on the line. Neat.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada




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To: oldsmobile@ccn.cs.dal.ca
Subject: Re: Radiator Stuff (was: H/O sighted; replacing radiator)
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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:54:03 -0300
Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) 

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On Mon, 8 Jul 1996 BRAD.NICHOLSON@s3abac8.ssa.gov wrote:
>      transfer rate seemed real slow.  You definetely need the ShockWave and 
>      Quicktime VR add ons for Netscape Navigator to make the site "move".  
>      Their address is of course: http://www.oldsmobile.com

Yes, I found it very slow as well. Have you actually been able to get 
Shockwave to work OK? (I haven't yet tried QT VR). I downloaded that 
piece of s*** months ago and it has never worked right, even with 
correspondence from it's creator, Macrovision (who have now stopped 
responding to my email messages). Their last suggestion was to re-download 
and re-install Netscape 2.x again, then re-download and re-install 
Shockwave. Only a couple of hours of connect time I figure. No thanks!

Seriously, has anyone here found that software to work ok? Did you have 
to do anything trick to set it up? I'd love to see the Olds site in all 
it's glory... 

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@ccn.cs.dal.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada




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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:54:05 -0300
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Agreed, replacing your heater core is not fun.  I did on my 70 Cutlass with A/C
and you basically have to remove the fenderwell and the blower assembly
attached 
to the firewall.  Then from the inside the assembly covering the core has to be

removed, although as I remember it is screwed through the firewall to the
blower 
assembly on the other side.  A time consuming job, but not brain surgery.  
Probably took me at least 10 hrs of fiddling and thinking it through.
Part was around $50, in the DC area they probably would have charged at least 4

hrs labor.  It was worth it to me to learn through doing.....

Todd Morris
  



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Hi,

	The gas pedal on 89, Cutlass Ciera feels heavy any suggestion ?
Was used to driving 93 Corolla. Specially in city driving with speed
range of 40 - 60 pedal doesn't work smooth. Needs extra force to push
the padel( ther is resistence).


	Any helpful hints are appriciated.

Thanks

Prashant



- -- 
Prashant Ghude
Bellcore RRC 4D-351  				email : ghude@iscp.bellcore.com
444 Hoes Lane  					Tel   : 908 699-8082 (W)
Piscataway, NJ  08854-4182			        908 545-9858 (H) 



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Message-Id: <9607081918.AA15988@dodger.iscp.bellcore.com>
Subject: Need help with heavy gas padel( 89 CUT CIERA)
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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:54:07 -0300
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>This muther-scratcher is l-o-n-g...

And my followup would have been even longer 'cause I was going to put
the comment "Yes!" after just about every single sentence. But I won't;
just say it quietly to yourself as you reread his post. Other comments:

>Next, Throw a battery in it and see if it will turn over.  Don't try
>and start it, just see if it turns.

Pull the coil wire just to be sure it doesn't have an attack of
helpfulness and actually _start_ before we want it to.

>If you don't do that, your next
>best bet is frequent oil changes.  After my initial change, I changed it
>again at 500 miles, 1000 miles, 1500 miles, then 2000 miles.  That's just to
>clean out all the gunk.

Plan on these oil changes no matter what, at least two, 500 miles apart.
Fresh oil will bring out an impressive amount of sludge the first time
through, making the second change of oil and filter required anyway. And
if that goes black real quick, then do a third. Consider that each change
costs you _maybe_ the price of a case of beer (depending on your brand :-)
which is pretty cheap engine insurance.

I changed the oil on a friend's filthy Citation and it was black again by
the time I got down 

>I also added a can of Engine Restorer (some sort of oil
>additive that supposedly removes varnish and restores compression),
>though some people are of the oppinion that oil additives do more harm
>than good.

I'm not sure that the crankcase flush is in the same category as additives;
it's pretty much solvent to thin the old oil and (theoretically) dissolve
sludge, whereas miracle additives such as Slick-50 are more concerned with
allegedly treating metal surfaces, etc. Your interest at this point is
purely in sludge removal.

>for a while, but sooner or later (probably sooner), you'll most likely have
>to change the gaskets/seals in your engine and tranny, as they've
>probably dried and shrunk and will begin leaking profusely.

Agreed; I think it's safe to say that _something_ is going to break/leak/
burst/fall-off/catch-fire/have-I-missed-anything the first time the car
starts, then the first time the car moves, then the first time the car
goes on a trip, etc. Accept this concept before you start and it will be
a lot less painful for you later.  :-)

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473



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Date: 	Mon, 8 Jul 1996 15:16:14 -0300
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Subject: Re: '72 Cutlass Supreme owner... -Reply
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From: "Mailer" <Mailer.Central_Message_Center@inbox.ei.educ.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 22:54:10 -0300
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>Agreed, replacing your heater core is not fun.  I did on my 70 Cutlass with
>A/C and you basically have to remove the fenderwell and the blower assembly
>attached to the firewall.

Another long-winded AndyGram here:  :-)

Okay, I did this on our '72 LeMans (Cutlass sister car) and I've found
some old notes that I sent somebody a while back when I was working on
the blower motor, accessed the same way. Regarding the wheel well area:

>Time for another blower. Normally I just get rebuilt units with 7-year
>warranties from Trak Auto, but in this particular case I would suggest you
>buy a new one, due to the difficult installation.
>
>> How do I get to the problem?  Do I have to remove the fender skirt?
>> I believe the blower motor is accessed from the outside.  Where is
>> the blower motor?  Is it mounted on the firewall, or in the evaporator
>> assembly.
>
>It's on the front side of the evaporator housing, tucked more or less
>below the passenger's side hood hinge. HOWEVER, despite what another net
>reader said, you do not have to remove the fender or hood. Disregard that.
>You might also disregard early copies of the service manual which told you
>to cut (!) an access hole in the wheel well shroud to get at it.
>
>What you do is remove the bolts on the lower/back half of the fender and
>swing it outwards. This gives you enough access to reach up from under it,
>sitting/lying outside the car just rearwards of the front right wheel.
>You loosen (not sure you have to remove it) a large bolt at the bottom rear
>of the fender where it wraps under the body. Also remove the line of bolts
>leading up around the perimeter of the wheel well up to the 12-o'clock
>position of the wheel opening. Look further in to the wheel well and find 
>two or three similarly large-sized bolts which hold the wheel well itself 
>in position, located above and behind the wheel, and remove those. (Note
>that during all this, you don't necessarily have to remove the wheel.)
>If the car has rocker moldings below the doors, you will have to remove at
>least the forward-most screw which attaches the molding to the bottom of
>the fender before starting.
>
>Note that the fender bolts screw into "clip nuts". Both the bolts and the
>clip nuts are designed to shear harmlessly if they're rusted solid, so
>don't panic if that happens. Recover the pieces for comparison and just 
>toddle on over to the nearest auto parts store for new replacements.
>
>Once the rear of the fender and the wheel well are loose enough, you will
>be able to pull the bottom of the fender outwards a good five or six inches
>or more, and push the wheel well housing forwards (i.e. towards the tire).
>You can wedge pieces of wood into various spots to hold things open for you.
>The Pontiac is built with heavy sheet metal and as long as you are not a
>blithering idiot, you will not distort any parts. Take the opportunity while
>things are open to clear packed debris and mud from the bottom of the fender
>and wheel well.

[sermon about replacing the blower deleted, but if you're doing all this
to get at the heater core, you MightAsWell (tm) plan to put a new blower
in, because by the time you get this far, you will be swearing to yourself
that you _never_ want to do _this_ again.]

Back to you:

>Then from the inside the assembly covering the core has to be 
>removed, although as I remember it is screwed through the firewall to the
>blower assembly on the other side.

Well, to the evaporator/heater core housing, yes. From what I remember,
there is a line of bolts around the perimeter of the core housing, _some_
of which hold the housing to the firewall, others which do double duty and
hold the heater core housing on the inside as well, going through to the 
other side. I _think_ there is a subtle size difference, or possibly a
mixture of simple bolts in some locations and nuts screwed onto studs at
others. I found once I had it all apart that I really only needed to unscrew
one of the two types of fasteners found; I think it was the nut/stud
combinations. The regular bolts only hold the evaporator housing to the 
firewall and unscrewing those gets you nothing. You only need to unbolt the
bigger ones which will free the core housing inside the car. Look carefully
first and you might be able to skip messing around with fasteners that you 
don't need to undo.

>A time consuming job, but not brain surgery.  
>Probably took me at least 10 hrs of fiddling and thinking it through.
>Part was around $50, in the DC area they probably would have charged at 
>least 4 hrs labor.  It was worth it to me to learn through doing...

Very well said.

Andrew C. Green            (312) 266-4431
Datalogics, Inc.
441 W. Huron               Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60610-3498    FAX: (312) 266-4473



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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #229
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